1 00:00:06,160 --> 00:00:09,200 It's 5:00 pm and we are at the Canyon 2 00:00:09,200 --> 00:00:11,360 Community Center for the September 2nd 3 00:00:11,360 --> 00:00:13,040 meeting of the Springdale Planning 4 00:00:13,040 --> 00:00:16,160 Commission. From the T town we have Tom 5 00:00:16,160 --> 00:00:19,840 Dancy, Eugenia Aam, Nyall Connelly, and 6 00:00:19,840 --> 00:00:24,000 April Ratitz. On the dis we have Jorge 7 00:00:24,000 --> 00:00:25,920 Hernandez, Zion National Park 8 00:00:25,920 --> 00:00:29,039 representative, Katie Mson, Terry 9 00:00:29,039 --> 00:00:32,719 Kruski, myself, Jennifer McCulla, Paul 10 00:00:32,719 --> 00:00:35,680 Zimmerman, Kosh Bati, and Melissa 11 00:00:35,680 --> 00:00:39,760 Labort. Rich Swanson is out tonight. 12 00:00:39,760 --> 00:00:42,000 I'd like to ask for a motion to approve 13 00:00:42,000 --> 00:00:43,760 tonight's agenda. 14 00:00:43,760 --> 00:00:46,640 >> A motion to approve tonight's agenda. 15 00:00:46,640 --> 00:00:50,160 >> Second. Motion by Melissa, second by 16 00:00:50,160 --> 00:00:53,520 Paul. All in favor. 17 00:00:53,520 --> 00:00:54,079 >> I. 18 00:00:54,079 --> 00:00:55,120 >> Jennifer I. 19 00:00:55,120 --> 00:00:56,399 >> Paul I. 20 00:00:56,399 --> 00:00:59,750 >> Melissa I. [snorts] 21 00:00:59,760 --> 00:01:02,879 » Motion passes. Uh, let's see. Caut, 22 00:01:02,879 --> 00:01:05,680 since Rich is out tonight, I think we 23 00:01:05,680 --> 00:01:08,560 need to ask you to vote as well. 24 00:01:08,560 --> 00:01:10,880 >> Thank you. 25 00:01:10,880 --> 00:01:12,720 And are there any general announcements 26 00:01:12,720 --> 00:01:16,469 from the town? 27 00:01:16,479 --> 00:01:20,080 Yes, I have one. Um, so just to let you 28 00:01:20,080 --> 00:01:22,159 know, uh, going back a few months, the 29 00:01:22,159 --> 00:01:25,520 commission talked about, uh, parking 30 00:01:25,520 --> 00:01:27,920 standards in the town and potentially 31 00:01:27,920 --> 00:01:31,360 reooking at those. Um, you'd instructed 32 00:01:31,360 --> 00:01:34,720 us to do some surveys of of parking 33 00:01:34,720 --> 00:01:37,520 counts so we'd have some data. Um, with 34 00:01:37,520 --> 00:01:40,000 this being Labor Day weekend, we're 35 00:01:40,000 --> 00:01:42,960 going to take the opportunity to do some 36 00:01:42,960 --> 00:01:45,600 parking counts while it's busy. Uh, 37 00:01:45,600 --> 00:01:47,360 we're also going to be doing some 38 00:01:47,360 --> 00:01:51,360 parking counts on normal days. So, we 39 00:01:51,360 --> 00:01:53,280 have, you know, some comparison with 40 00:01:53,280 --> 00:01:56,240 weekdays and other Saturdays. Uh we had 41 00:01:56,240 --> 00:01:58,159 actually planned on doing some today 42 00:01:58,159 --> 00:02:00,560 although with the flooding and the fact 43 00:02:00,560 --> 00:02:02,479 that all the some of the parking spaces 44 00:02:02,479 --> 00:02:04,960 are out of commission we're postponed 45 00:02:04,960 --> 00:02:07,119 that but we will be doing some parking 46 00:02:07,119 --> 00:02:08,959 counts this weekend and then into next 47 00:02:08,959 --> 00:02:11,990 week. 48 00:02:12,000 --> 00:02:15,200 » Any other announcements? 49 00:02:15,200 --> 00:02:17,840 Are there any declarations 50 00:02:17,840 --> 00:02:22,710 of conflict of interest 51 00:02:22,720 --> 00:02:25,040 for tonight's agenda? We have one 52 00:02:25,040 --> 00:02:28,160 non-action item 53 00:02:28,160 --> 00:02:30,640 which is a discussion. It's a discussion 54 00:02:30,640 --> 00:02:32,959 about potential amendments to clarify 55 00:02:32,959 --> 00:02:34,959 chapter 10-15F 56 00:02:34,959 --> 00:02:37,920 of the town code geologic hazard 57 00:02:37,920 --> 00:02:40,480 specifically clarifying the requirement 58 00:02:40,480 --> 00:02:43,280 for geotechnical investigation reports 59 00:02:43,280 --> 00:02:46,319 and the geologic hazard study area. 60 00:02:46,319 --> 00:02:49,120 Staff contact is Nile and Nile will be 61 00:02:49,120 --> 00:02:51,200 presenting. 62 00:02:51,200 --> 00:02:53,920 >> Thank you. Um 63 00:02:53,920 --> 00:02:56,239 yes. So as you indicated this is a 64 00:02:56,239 --> 00:02:58,319 discussion item about the town's 65 00:02:58,319 --> 00:03:01,440 geologic hazard ordinance. Uh so chapter 66 00:03:01,440 --> 00:03:05,920 1015F of the code. Um geologic hazards 67 00:03:05,920 --> 00:03:07,760 and how we address them through the 68 00:03:07,760 --> 00:03:09,840 development process has been a recurring 69 00:03:09,840 --> 00:03:13,200 theme at recent meetings. Um and during 70 00:03:13,200 --> 00:03:15,040 those discussion 71 00:03:15,040 --> 00:03:18,159 discussions, the commission expressed an 72 00:03:18,159 --> 00:03:20,800 interest in looking at these again, 73 00:03:20,800 --> 00:03:23,040 maybe making some clarifications to help 74 00:03:23,040 --> 00:03:26,159 us um 75 00:03:26,159 --> 00:03:29,200 know how to uh 76 00:03:29,200 --> 00:03:32,319 apply this in every situation. 77 00:03:32,319 --> 00:03:34,799 uh in particular uh to clarify the 78 00:03:34,799 --> 00:03:37,760 requirement for geotechnical reports for 79 00:03:37,760 --> 00:03:40,959 developments in the geologic hazard 80 00:03:40,959 --> 00:03:44,959 study areas. So that's areas of uh 81 00:03:44,959 --> 00:03:48,799 elevated landslide, rockfall 82 00:03:48,799 --> 00:03:53,200 um or liquefaction risks, those areas. 83 00:03:53,200 --> 00:03:55,280 Um there may be instances where 84 00:03:55,280 --> 00:03:58,319 geotechnical reports are beneficial but 85 00:03:58,319 --> 00:04:00,799 aren't at the moment automatically 86 00:04:00,799 --> 00:04:04,480 triggered by the code. Um 87 00:04:04,480 --> 00:04:06,319 at the same time there may be other more 88 00:04:06,319 --> 00:04:08,799 minor types of development where uh 89 00:04:08,799 --> 00:04:12,159 geotechnical reports uh could be overly 90 00:04:12,159 --> 00:04:15,920 burdensome. So, it's uh an opportunity 91 00:04:15,920 --> 00:04:18,400 to to look at our requirements and make 92 00:04:18,400 --> 00:04:22,320 sure that they're fit for purpose. Um, 93 00:04:22,320 --> 00:04:24,639 in the staff report, I've identified 94 00:04:24,639 --> 00:04:26,639 some questions that the commission could 95 00:04:26,639 --> 00:04:30,400 use to frame this discussion. Um, in 96 00:04:30,400 --> 00:04:32,320 addition, Commissioner Zimmerman has 97 00:04:32,320 --> 00:04:34,320 also provided some comments and some 98 00:04:34,320 --> 00:04:37,520 suggestions on uh language we could 99 00:04:37,520 --> 00:04:39,919 consider. I've got that on the screen 100 00:04:39,919 --> 00:04:41,600 there that we can refer to as well if 101 00:04:41,600 --> 00:04:44,560 you would like. Um, 102 00:04:44,560 --> 00:04:46,800 if it would be helpful, I'm also happy 103 00:04:46,800 --> 00:04:49,600 to to talk for a few moments about the 104 00:04:49,600 --> 00:04:52,800 geologic hazards in town and how the 105 00:04:52,800 --> 00:04:55,520 current ordinance works if that would be 106 00:04:55,520 --> 00:04:58,880 helpful. Um, so whatever way you would 107 00:04:58,880 --> 00:05:01,360 like to proceed with this uh discussion, 108 00:05:01,360 --> 00:05:04,720 I'm I'm happy to help. 109 00:05:04,720 --> 00:05:09,759 >> I have a clarifying question. Um, 110 00:05:09,759 --> 00:05:11,280 so 111 00:05:11,280 --> 00:05:14,320 a if something is a geological hazard 112 00:05:14,320 --> 00:05:18,230 study area, 113 00:05:18,240 --> 00:05:22,880 does that mean that it would have had 114 00:05:22,880 --> 00:05:27,280 a geotechnical investigation? 115 00:05:27,280 --> 00:05:30,560 >> No, not in every instance. So it it 116 00:05:30,560 --> 00:05:32,880 depends on the 117 00:05:32,880 --> 00:05:35,039 do you mean a development that comes 118 00:05:35,039 --> 00:05:37,680 forward in for a permit in that area? 119 00:05:37,680 --> 00:05:39,840 >> Yeah. So I understand like there the 120 00:05:39,840 --> 00:05:42,639 there's the um 121 00:05:42,639 --> 00:05:45,360 requirements to have the geotechnical 122 00:05:45,360 --> 00:05:47,520 report. 123 00:05:47,520 --> 00:05:50,320 So that would have if some so it's 124 00:05:50,320 --> 00:05:53,759 possible I guess for there to be an area 125 00:05:53,759 --> 00:05:57,039 that's geological hazard study that 126 00:05:57,039 --> 00:05:59,520 didn't have that report. Is that 127 00:05:59,520 --> 00:06:01,280 correct? 128 00:06:01,280 --> 00:06:03,280 >> Potentially. Um, 129 00:06:03,280 --> 00:06:05,840 >> that's what I'm having a little bit of a 130 00:06:05,840 --> 00:06:08,319 >> Maybe maybe now you could talk about 131 00:06:08,319 --> 00:06:14,550 where the town's areas are. 132 00:06:14,560 --> 00:06:16,720 » Right. 133 00:06:16,720 --> 00:06:17,120 >> Yeah, 134 00:06:17,120 --> 00:06:19,680 >> sure. Yeah, I can bring up the maps and 135 00:06:19,680 --> 00:06:21,759 uh visual aids and we can talk through 136 00:06:21,759 --> 00:06:25,039 them and then h go on to how the code 137 00:06:25,039 --> 00:06:29,199 currently is. Okay, let me just 138 00:06:29,199 --> 00:06:32,000 get this up here. 139 00:06:32,000 --> 00:06:34,720 So, this is on our website. This is our 140 00:06:34,720 --> 00:06:39,280 uh geographic information system. 141 00:06:39,280 --> 00:06:42,400 So, I'm going to take off the zoning 142 00:06:42,400 --> 00:06:44,479 layer. 143 00:06:44,479 --> 00:06:48,240 And here we have the geologic hazards. 144 00:06:48,240 --> 00:06:50,240 And this drop-own menu, you can bring up 145 00:06:50,240 --> 00:06:52,560 the different layers for those those 146 00:06:52,560 --> 00:06:55,120 different hazard areas. So, I'll start 147 00:06:55,120 --> 00:06:58,000 with landslide. 148 00:06:58,000 --> 00:07:01,520 So you can see the red is the very high 149 00:07:01,520 --> 00:07:04,880 risk. If I just move over to this legend 150 00:07:04,880 --> 00:07:08,319 here, you can see the different 151 00:07:08,319 --> 00:07:11,440 um so the red is the very high, this 152 00:07:11,440 --> 00:07:14,319 pink is high and and so on down to 153 00:07:14,319 --> 00:07:17,039 moderate and then low. 154 00:07:17,039 --> 00:07:20,560 So if you the top of the map, this is up 155 00:07:20,560 --> 00:07:23,440 near the park entrance. Um, we're here 156 00:07:23,440 --> 00:07:26,240 at the community center. 157 00:07:26,240 --> 00:07:31,520 So, you can see really on both sides of the river, uh, all of those foothill 158 00:07:31,520 --> 00:07:35,120 areas are are generally experiencing 159 00:07:35,120 --> 00:07:38,319 those landslide hazards. 160 00:07:38,319 --> 00:07:40,560 If I go back and look at the rockfall 161 00:07:40,560 --> 00:07:43,440 now, 162 00:07:43,440 --> 00:07:46,000 let me go down. 163 00:07:46,000 --> 00:07:48,960 So, this is kind of a similar picture, 164 00:07:48,960 --> 00:07:52,319 although a little bit different. 165 00:07:52,319 --> 00:07:56,400 Um, and again here the red is the high, 166 00:07:56,400 --> 00:08:01,280 yellow moderate, and green is low. Um, 167 00:08:01,280 --> 00:08:04,319 so the rockfall areas are slightly less 168 00:08:04,319 --> 00:08:09,589 big than the landslide ones. 169 00:08:09,599 --> 00:08:13,670 And finally 170 00:08:13,680 --> 00:08:16,160 the liquefaction 171 00:08:16,160 --> 00:08:18,000 covers 172 00:08:18,000 --> 00:08:20,639 the valley areas around the river 173 00:08:20,639 --> 00:08:23,440 mostly. So the that's kind of 174 00:08:23,440 --> 00:08:26,720 collapsible soils is where you know in 175 00:08:26,720 --> 00:08:29,919 the event of an earthquake the um those 176 00:08:29,919 --> 00:08:33,519 soils are more prone to collapse. 177 00:08:33,519 --> 00:08:36,640 Um, I have a geologist here, Tom Danzy, 178 00:08:36,640 --> 00:08:38,560 who can correct me if I'm giving 179 00:08:38,560 --> 00:08:40,959 incorrect interpretations, but those are 180 00:08:40,959 --> 00:08:43,519 our those are our hazard zones in the 181 00:08:43,519 --> 00:08:45,920 town. So, you can see they cover between 182 00:08:45,920 --> 00:08:47,920 all three of them, they cover fairly 183 00:08:47,920 --> 00:08:50,640 extensive areas. 184 00:08:50,640 --> 00:08:53,519 Um 185 00:08:53,519 --> 00:09:01,040 with the liquefaction zone generally the mitigation there is really 186 00:09:01,040 --> 00:09:03,839 about choosing the appropriate 187 00:09:03,839 --> 00:09:06,880 foundations and kind of how much over 188 00:09:06,880 --> 00:09:09,040 excavation and those sorts of things. So 189 00:09:09,040 --> 00:09:12,000 that's that's often how the liquefaction 190 00:09:12,000 --> 00:09:14,640 is dealt with. Um the landslides and the 191 00:09:14,640 --> 00:09:16,800 rock falls are are a little bit 192 00:09:16,800 --> 00:09:18,560 different. 193 00:09:18,560 --> 00:09:21,040 Um, 194 00:09:21,040 --> 00:09:29,040 so all of these areas, um, we got the the maps or the the definition of 195 00:09:29,040 --> 00:09:31,440 the area from the Utah Geological Survey 196 00:09:31,440 --> 00:09:33,200 that was referred to in the ordinance. 197 00:09:33,200 --> 00:09:34,720 >> Yeah, that's correct. 198 00:09:34,720 --> 00:09:38,160 >> So, any property that's in the area in 199 00:09:38,160 --> 00:09:43,200 one of these areas wouldn't wouldn't have one automatically until 200 00:09:43,200 --> 00:09:46,320 some development is requested or 201 00:09:46,320 --> 00:09:46,959 >> Yeah. 202 00:09:46,959 --> 00:09:53,110 >> force. Okay. 203 00:09:53,120 --> 00:09:55,519 » So, we we Sorry, do you want to say 204 00:09:55,519 --> 00:09:58,000 something? 205 00:09:58,000 --> 00:09:59,839 Ju just one comment about the maps, and 206 00:09:59,839 --> 00:10:04,800 I think this is important for why the ordinance is structured the way it's 207 00:10:04,800 --> 00:10:06,640 structured. Um Terry, as you mentioned, 208 00:10:06,640 --> 00:10:09,440 the Utah Geologic Survey produced those 209 00:10:09,440 --> 00:10:13,680 maps for us. Those maps are produced on 210 00:10:13,680 --> 00:10:17,519 uh the very wide scale. So that that 211 00:10:17,519 --> 00:10:20,880 hazard map that Nile referenced is a 212 00:10:20,880 --> 00:10:22,320 small portion of the hazard map that 213 00:10:22,320 --> 00:10:25,440 covers all of eastern Washington County. 214 00:10:25,440 --> 00:10:27,680 So it's not as if the Utah Geological 215 00:10:27,680 --> 00:10:29,200 Survey was going out to every single 216 00:10:29,200 --> 00:10:31,279 property in Springdale and analyzing the 217 00:10:31,279 --> 00:10:33,600 sight specific risks. They were using 218 00:10:33,600 --> 00:10:35,839 some analysis tools like aerial 219 00:10:35,839 --> 00:10:41,279 photography and and um topography and um 220 00:10:41,279 --> 00:10:45,040 geologic um mapping and and then and 221 00:10:45,040 --> 00:10:47,040 then performing some algorithms and some 222 00:10:47,040 --> 00:10:49,440 calculations to come up with those maps. 223 00:10:49,440 --> 00:10:53,120 They are not sightspecific analyses of 224 00:10:53,120 --> 00:10:55,360 the risks on those properties. And this 225 00:10:55,360 --> 00:10:57,279 is important because those maps just 226 00:10:57,279 --> 00:10:59,680 generally show based on these factors 227 00:10:59,680 --> 00:11:02,640 that we've considered, there is a higher 228 00:11:02,640 --> 00:11:05,120 probability than not that there's some 229 00:11:05,120 --> 00:11:07,760 kind of geological hazard here. But the 230 00:11:07,760 --> 00:11:10,240 extent of of that hazard, the the true 231 00:11:10,240 --> 00:11:11,760 nature of that hazard, and frankly 232 00:11:11,760 --> 00:11:13,120 whether or not that hazard truly even 233 00:11:13,120 --> 00:11:14,880 exists on that property or not, those 234 00:11:14,880 --> 00:11:17,600 maps do not say. It just says here are 235 00:11:17,600 --> 00:11:20,560 areas that are likely to be subject to 236 00:11:20,560 --> 00:11:23,600 these hazards. That's why our ordinance 237 00:11:23,600 --> 00:11:28,000 then says okay if development occurs in 238 00:11:28,000 --> 00:11:31,120 those areas and a geotechnical report is 239 00:11:31,120 --> 00:11:34,399 required one of the components of that 240 00:11:34,399 --> 00:11:37,360 geotechnical investigation 241 00:11:37,360 --> 00:11:39,680 is to analyze the geo do an initial 242 00:11:39,680 --> 00:11:42,000 analysis of geohhazards. Again as a 243 00:11:42,000 --> 00:11:43,600 reminder we talked about this last time 244 00:11:43,600 --> 00:11:46,079 the geotechnical investigation primarily 245 00:11:46,079 --> 00:11:49,360 looks at subsurface soil conditions. How 246 00:11:49,360 --> 00:11:52,480 is the um the subgrade going to be 247 00:11:52,480 --> 00:11:53,839 prepared and what kind of foundation 248 00:11:53,839 --> 00:11:56,160 does a structure need to support itself? 249 00:11:56,160 --> 00:11:58,079 Those geotechnical investigations in and 250 00:11:58,079 --> 00:11:59,920 of themselves are not designed to 251 00:11:59,920 --> 00:12:02,399 address geologic hazards on a sight 252 00:12:02,399 --> 00:12:03,839 specific scale. They may address it 253 00:12:03,839 --> 00:12:05,519 briefly, but it's not an in-depth 254 00:12:05,519 --> 00:12:07,839 analysis. That's why our the way our 255 00:12:07,839 --> 00:12:09,680 ordinance is structured. It says, okay, 256 00:12:09,680 --> 00:12:11,279 when development is proposed and a 257 00:12:11,279 --> 00:12:13,519 geotechnical report is required in one 258 00:12:13,519 --> 00:12:16,079 of those geologic hazard study areas, 259 00:12:16,079 --> 00:12:18,240 the geotechnical engineer needs to make 260 00:12:18,240 --> 00:12:23,279 an initial analysis of the site specific 261 00:12:23,279 --> 00:12:26,240 uh geologic hazards on that property and 262 00:12:26,240 --> 00:12:28,079 then make a determination whether or not 263 00:12:28,079 --> 00:12:30,880 additional study is warranted. So that's 264 00:12:30,880 --> 00:12:34,320 just a a a clarification to say that 265 00:12:34,320 --> 00:12:37,600 those maps are illustrative only and are 266 00:12:37,600 --> 00:12:40,880 a guide, but they don't necessarily mean 267 00:12:40,880 --> 00:12:42,639 that if you are in that high hazard 268 00:12:42,639 --> 00:12:45,040 area, yes, absolutely you are at risk. 269 00:12:45,040 --> 00:12:46,959 It's just there's a greater probability 270 00:12:46,959 --> 00:12:49,040 than not that you are at risk and more 271 00:12:49,040 --> 00:12:51,600 study is needed. Does that make sense? 272 00:12:51,600 --> 00:12:52,800 >> Yeah. So [clears throat] that's kind of 273 00:12:52,800 --> 00:12:56,000 what I was getting at. So it could or 274 00:12:56,000 --> 00:12:59,680 could not make sense to have a 275 00:12:59,680 --> 00:13:02,560 requirement for anybody any property in 276 00:13:02,560 --> 00:13:04,720 that area 277 00:13:04,720 --> 00:13:07,279 for that to trigger 278 00:13:07,279 --> 00:13:09,600 a a geological 279 00:13:09,600 --> 00:13:12,160 investigation. 280 00:13:12,160 --> 00:13:13,600 That would be something we need to 281 00:13:13,600 --> 00:13:16,160 discuss, right? Okay. 282 00:13:16,160 --> 00:13:18,800 >> Yeah. So I I I think that point Tom made 283 00:13:18,800 --> 00:13:22,399 is is really helpful actually and kind 284 00:13:22,399 --> 00:13:24,800 of to your point that so there's the 285 00:13:24,800 --> 00:13:27,200 geotechnical report which is first and 286 00:13:27,200 --> 00:13:28,880 then there's the geologic hazard 287 00:13:28,880 --> 00:13:31,680 investigation which is step two if 288 00:13:31,680 --> 00:13:34,800 there's more significant issues that you 289 00:13:34,800 --> 00:13:37,360 know there may be many developments that 290 00:13:37,360 --> 00:13:40,320 come forward in the hazard areas that 291 00:13:40,320 --> 00:13:43,040 don't actually merit that next step. 292 00:13:43,040 --> 00:13:47,910 >> Okay. Thank you. 293 00:13:47,920 --> 00:13:50,720 So, I have a a question about these two 294 00:13:50,720 --> 00:13:54,000 reports. So, a a geotechnical report as 295 00:13:54,000 --> 00:13:57,199 we've defined in our um ordinances, is 296 00:13:57,199 --> 00:14:00,399 that sort of a standardized thing? Do 297 00:14:00,399 --> 00:14:02,720 most towns 298 00:14:02,720 --> 00:14:04,720 require the same kinds of things in 299 00:14:04,720 --> 00:14:07,199 their reports or do engineering 300 00:14:07,199 --> 00:14:10,240 organizations typically produce a report 301 00:14:10,240 --> 00:14:13,120 that's fairly standardized or are they 302 00:14:13,120 --> 00:14:15,600 fairly unique to each town or each 303 00:14:15,600 --> 00:14:18,240 instance? 304 00:14:18,240 --> 00:14:21,360 >> Yeah, they're standardized. They exist. 305 00:14:21,360 --> 00:14:22,880 >> So, it's it's a standardized sort of 306 00:14:22,880 --> 00:14:27,269 thing. Okay. 307 00:14:27,279 --> 00:14:30,320 Um so I guess that brings up the 308 00:14:30,320 --> 00:14:31,760 question. So when we add when we added 309 00:14:31,760 --> 00:14:34,160 that section that talks about um slope 310 00:14:34,160 --> 00:14:37,040 stability and then in that section we 311 00:14:37,040 --> 00:14:39,120 say that the geotechnical report has to 312 00:14:39,120 --> 00:14:42,399 include comments on slope stability. 313 00:14:42,399 --> 00:14:43,760 That would be something we would be 314 00:14:43,760 --> 00:14:46,560 requiring them to add to the standard 315 00:14:46,560 --> 00:14:48,480 default report. 316 00:14:48,480 --> 00:14:55,030 >> Yeah, that's an add-on. Yeah. 317 00:14:55,040 --> 00:14:56,959 » Are there any other questions for Nile 318 00:14:56,959 --> 00:14:59,760 right now? 319 00:14:59,760 --> 00:15:01,839 >> And my understanding is is through the 320 00:15:01,839 --> 00:15:04,880 discussion process, we can continue to 321 00:15:04,880 --> 00:15:06,639 ask questions and have back and forth 322 00:15:06,639 --> 00:15:08,240 dialogue. Correct. 323 00:15:08,240 --> 00:15:08,880 >> Absolutely. 324 00:15:08,880 --> 00:15:10,160 >> Okay. Yeah. So, we'll move into 325 00:15:10,160 --> 00:15:12,399 discussion and 326 00:15:12,399 --> 00:15:12,959 >> What's that? 327 00:15:12,959 --> 00:15:14,800 >> We can move into discussion, but as we 328 00:15:14,800 --> 00:15:17,519 move along, um just any questions that 329 00:15:17,519 --> 00:15:21,600 come up. Um, seems like 330 00:15:21,600 --> 00:15:24,560 maybe starting with the questions 331 00:15:24,560 --> 00:15:28,959 um that were that staff provided for us. 332 00:15:28,959 --> 00:15:30,399 We could start going through those if 333 00:15:30,399 --> 00:15:33,040 that makes sense to everybody. 334 00:15:33,040 --> 00:15:34,639 Um, 335 00:15:34,639 --> 00:15:37,199 so the first being does the list of 336 00:15:37,199 --> 00:15:39,920 situations where geotechnical report is 337 00:15:39,920 --> 00:15:44,800 required 10-15 F5A does that cover all 338 00:15:44,800 --> 00:15:48,800 of the situations it should? 339 00:15:48,800 --> 00:15:50,800 No, 340 00:15:50,800 --> 00:15:52,639 >> I think I agree with what Paul had 341 00:15:52,639 --> 00:15:55,279 written that we need to we need to 342 00:15:55,279 --> 00:15:56,800 update that section. 343 00:15:56,800 --> 00:15:58,240 >> Yeah. And that's where I guess the 344 00:15:58,240 --> 00:16:01,680 question comes in about if that makes 345 00:16:01,680 --> 00:16:04,240 sense for that 346 00:16:04,240 --> 00:16:06,399 to be a requirement 347 00:16:06,399 --> 00:16:08,480 for 348 00:16:08,480 --> 00:16:11,839 um any property in geological hazard 349 00:16:11,839 --> 00:16:13,279 study area. 350 00:16:13,279 --> 00:16:17,519 >> Yeah. And I I'd like to clarify um in 351 00:16:17,519 --> 00:16:19,279 the the notes that I sent out and we'll 352 00:16:19,279 --> 00:16:20,639 get through more detail and talk about 353 00:16:20,639 --> 00:16:25,680 that as we go on, but in um I think item 354 00:16:25,680 --> 00:16:30,399 uh whatever under 1015 F5A, 355 00:16:30,399 --> 00:16:32,560 I suggested adding a five that said any 356 00:16:32,560 --> 00:16:34,320 development involving soil disturbance 357 00:16:34,320 --> 00:16:37,120 that's in a geohhazard study area 358 00:16:37,120 --> 00:16:41,759 described in 1015 F4. Um I didn't look I 359 00:16:41,759 --> 00:16:43,839 intended to but didn't get actually get 360 00:16:43,839 --> 00:16:45,839 a chance to look at these maps and 361 00:16:45,839 --> 00:16:47,680 obviously in the maps pretty much the 362 00:16:47,680 --> 00:16:50,720 whole town is is encompassed but we may 363 00:16:50,720 --> 00:16:53,440 want to back off of any and and provide 364 00:16:53,440 --> 00:16:54,959 a little more you know thought into that 365 00:16:54,959 --> 00:16:56,160 and look through that. Um 366 00:16:56,160 --> 00:16:57,600 >> yeah, that was going to be my com. Then 367 00:16:57,600 --> 00:16:59,920 maybe something a little uh more 368 00:16:59,920 --> 00:17:02,399 specific would be important. 369 00:17:02,399 --> 00:17:07,039 >> For one, um I'm not sure a geologic soil 370 00:17:07,039 --> 00:17:09,280 study. I don't know. Does it make a 371 00:17:09,280 --> 00:17:11,360 difference in rockfall how hard the rock 372 00:17:11,360 --> 00:17:12,720 lands on you? I 373 00:17:12,720 --> 00:17:14,400 >> Well, if it lands on your head, it 374 00:17:14,400 --> 00:17:16,079 probably doesn't matter. If it lands 375 00:17:16,079 --> 00:17:19,520 next to you, it might. Anyway, but um 376 00:17:19,520 --> 00:17:21,199 yeah, and I I think it might be 377 00:17:21,199 --> 00:17:24,720 beneficial to make sure we have a common 378 00:17:24,720 --> 00:17:25,919 understanding of what the different 379 00:17:25,919 --> 00:17:27,839 things are because um what we're talking 380 00:17:27,839 --> 00:17:30,720 about is a geotechnical report um which 381 00:17:30,720 --> 00:17:33,280 is a a much smaller thing than than the 382 00:17:33,280 --> 00:17:36,240 followon which is you know um a full-on 383 00:17:36,240 --> 00:17:37,760 study or you know there's a couple of 384 00:17:37,760 --> 00:17:38,000 different 385 00:17:38,000 --> 00:17:40,160 >> investigation. Yeah. 386 00:17:40,160 --> 00:17:42,720 >> Um well I have a couple of I had a 387 00:17:42,720 --> 00:17:44,320 couple of ideas. One is whether or not 388 00:17:44,320 --> 00:17:47,520 we include all of the geologic hazards 389 00:17:47,520 --> 00:17:50,960 such as radon or rockfalls. 390 00:17:50,960 --> 00:17:51,200 >> Yeah. 391 00:17:51,200 --> 00:17:51,679 >> Um 392 00:17:51,679 --> 00:17:52,400 >> right. 393 00:17:52,400 --> 00:17:55,200 >> Which may or may not make sense for this 394 00:17:55,200 --> 00:17:56,640 particular situation. 395 00:17:56,640 --> 00:17:58,799 >> Um the other I would suggest is in in 396 00:17:58,799 --> 00:18:02,799 the in the grading um section of the of 397 00:18:02,799 --> 00:18:05,679 the ordinance, there's a minimum square 398 00:18:05,679 --> 00:18:08,400 footage and a minimum cubic yards of 399 00:18:08,400 --> 00:18:11,440 grading that requires a grading permit. 400 00:18:11,440 --> 00:18:13,039 So the way you've worded it, you know, 401 00:18:13,039 --> 00:18:14,960 even if you took out one cubic yard, 402 00:18:14,960 --> 00:18:16,640 you'd still need a geotechnical report. 403 00:18:16,640 --> 00:18:19,440 So we may want to say that well, if it 404 00:18:19,440 --> 00:18:21,120 reaches the requirement of a grading 405 00:18:21,120 --> 00:18:23,440 permit, then you need the report. 406 00:18:23,440 --> 00:18:25,520 >> Yeah. I I think though at the same time, 407 00:18:25,520 --> 00:18:30,000 it's also important to consider um the 408 00:18:30,000 --> 00:18:32,480 surroundings of what's being graded. So, 409 00:18:32,480 --> 00:18:34,400 for example, um one of the things I 410 00:18:34,400 --> 00:18:35,679 realized as we're going through this 411 00:18:35,679 --> 00:18:37,840 that, you know, we we sort of overlooked 412 00:18:37,840 --> 00:18:41,440 was the um the words that we added 413 00:18:41,440 --> 00:18:44,320 recently in 1015 F9 where you know, if 414 00:18:44,320 --> 00:18:46,160 you're digging I think that's the one if 415 00:18:46,160 --> 00:18:48,480 you're digging a hole next to a a slope 416 00:18:48,480 --> 00:18:50,480 or whatever, you know, we need we need 417 00:18:50,480 --> 00:18:51,520 to 418 00:18:51,520 --> 00:18:53,360 >> do some, you know, geological study in 419 00:18:53,360 --> 00:18:56,559 there, but but also if you're doing uh 420 00:18:56,559 --> 00:19:00,640 excavating next to a at the base of a of 421 00:19:00,640 --> 00:19:04,880 a the toe of a a significant downs slope 422 00:19:04,880 --> 00:19:09,039 um that's sub that's been or that is has 423 00:19:09,039 --> 00:19:12,240 been studied a known study to be 424 00:19:12,240 --> 00:19:14,480 hazardous even a small amount of 425 00:19:14,480 --> 00:19:16,799 excavation at that point may be uh 426 00:19:16,799 --> 00:19:18,960 problematic so I'd be careful to say 427 00:19:18,960 --> 00:19:20,880 it's got to be a certain size or you 428 00:19:20,880 --> 00:19:23,200 know or what that size is I think we 429 00:19:23,200 --> 00:19:26,000 should clarify in those kind of cases 430 00:19:26,000 --> 00:19:27,840 >> does that make sense 431 00:19:27,840 --> 00:19:30,559 >> the thing I'm thinking is that if if you 432 00:19:30,559 --> 00:19:32,960 excavate less than the requirement for a 433 00:19:32,960 --> 00:19:35,520 grading permit and you're not producing 434 00:19:35,520 --> 00:19:37,440 a structure or a building, 435 00:19:37,440 --> 00:19:38,000 >> right? 436 00:19:38,000 --> 00:19:40,320 >> Then there's nothing really that drives 437 00:19:40,320 --> 00:19:41,840 you, I think, to have to come to the 438 00:19:41,840 --> 00:19:43,679 town to get permission. 439 00:19:43,679 --> 00:19:44,960 >> Well, currently 440 00:19:44,960 --> 00:19:45,760 >> currently, yeah, 441 00:19:45,760 --> 00:19:47,200 >> but maybe there should be, I guess, is 442 00:19:47,200 --> 00:19:49,919 my my thought is depending upon and it 443 00:19:49,919 --> 00:19:51,919 depends on what the what those criteria 444 00:19:51,919 --> 00:19:53,280 are. or maybe we should discuss those 445 00:19:53,280 --> 00:19:57,039 because I'm you know I I don't know what 446 00:19:57,039 --> 00:19:59,360 um off the top of my head I'm not I'll 447 00:19:59,360 --> 00:20:01,520 be honest I don't recall what the 448 00:20:01,520 --> 00:20:03,840 minimum or the minimum grading 449 00:20:03,840 --> 00:20:05,520 >> I think the grading from it was like 30 450 00:20:05,520 --> 00:20:06,559 yards I think 451 00:20:06,559 --> 00:20:07,200 >> 30 yards 452 00:20:07,200 --> 00:20:09,760 >> um one question to the staff might be 453 00:20:09,760 --> 00:20:13,120 >> what drives those numbers 454 00:20:13,120 --> 00:20:14,799 >> how did those numbers get chosen 455 00:20:14,799 --> 00:20:17,360 >> right agreed 456 00:20:17,360 --> 00:20:19,440 >> it's uh you know we'll end up sort of 457 00:20:19,440 --> 00:20:22,400 crossing over these these sir to the the 458 00:20:22,400 --> 00:20:24,000 ordinance. 459 00:20:24,000 --> 00:20:26,720 >> So I I brought them up on the screen. So 460 00:20:26,720 --> 00:20:29,520 the the minimum is required for a 461 00:20:29,520 --> 00:20:31,520 grading permit. I don't know the 462 00:20:31,520 --> 00:20:36,080 background of those figures. Um are they 463 00:20:36,080 --> 00:20:40,960 the 30 cubic yards? 464 00:20:40,960 --> 00:20:43,679 Is there any insights you have on that 465 00:20:43,679 --> 00:20:45,120 Tom? 466 00:20:45,120 --> 00:20:48,159 >> It's just the 467 00:20:48,159 --> 00:20:52,320 Yeah. when when the grading when that section was added, the intent 468 00:20:52,320 --> 00:20:54,880 was to allow 469 00:20:54,880 --> 00:20:59,600 some amount of disturbance because our definition of grading is very broad. 470 00:20:59,600 --> 00:21:00,080 >> Yeah. 471 00:21:00,080 --> 00:21:02,159 >> It you know basically putting a shovel 472 00:21:02,159 --> 00:21:04,960 in the ground is under our definition is 473 00:21:04,960 --> 00:21:05,600 a grading 474 00:21:05,600 --> 00:21:08,000 >> grading. Um and and so it doesn't make 475 00:21:08,000 --> 00:21:09,600 sense that anytime anybody wants to go 476 00:21:09,600 --> 00:21:11,679 and and dig in the garden or do some 477 00:21:11,679 --> 00:21:13,840 landscaping or things like that that 478 00:21:13,840 --> 00:21:15,520 they would need to come and get a permit 479 00:21:15,520 --> 00:21:18,080 from the town given extensive nature of 480 00:21:18,080 --> 00:21:20,240 our definition of grading. So those 481 00:21:20,240 --> 00:21:24,880 figures were chosen to say there's a reasonable amount of of earth 482 00:21:24,880 --> 00:21:27,360 moving that's just associated with the 483 00:21:27,360 --> 00:21:29,120 normal maintenance and operation of a 484 00:21:29,120 --> 00:21:32,240 property that we we probably don't need 485 00:21:32,240 --> 00:21:34,000 to be concerned with. But once it 486 00:21:34,000 --> 00:21:37,039 exceeds that amount, then you're in a in 487 00:21:37,039 --> 00:21:38,960 a position where yes, you're doing 488 00:21:38,960 --> 00:21:40,960 things that would trigger the 489 00:21:40,960 --> 00:21:43,520 applicability section of the grading 490 00:21:43,520 --> 00:21:46,720 ordinance. That is to preserve the uh 491 00:21:46,720 --> 00:21:48,480 natural topography and to preserve 492 00:21:48,480 --> 00:21:50,960 view-sheds and to preserve hillsides. 493 00:21:50,960 --> 00:21:52,880 Once you get get above that 500 square 494 00:21:52,880 --> 00:21:55,039 feet or 30 cubic yards of excavation, 495 00:21:55,039 --> 00:21:57,520 then you're in in a position where 496 00:21:57,520 --> 00:21:58,960 you're potentially impacting those 497 00:21:58,960 --> 00:22:00,000 things. And so we want you to have a 498 00:22:00,000 --> 00:22:00,480 permit. 499 00:22:00,480 --> 00:22:00,799 >> Yeah. 500 00:22:00,799 --> 00:22:04,080 >> So maybe that's the requirement. 501 00:22:04,080 --> 00:22:06,159 Is that anything that requires a grading 502 00:22:06,159 --> 00:22:09,440 permit as per 1015B2? 503 00:22:09,440 --> 00:22:13,200 >> Do do we have the latitude to to get 504 00:22:13,200 --> 00:22:16,880 some geotechnical expertise to take a 505 00:22:16,880 --> 00:22:19,360 look at these numbers and give us some 506 00:22:19,360 --> 00:22:25,750 guidance on that? 507 00:22:25,760 --> 00:22:28,960 » Do you have the latitude? Um yes, you 508 00:22:28,960 --> 00:22:31,039 can ask for that. That's I mean that 509 00:22:31,039 --> 00:22:32,320 would be an expense the town would go 510 00:22:32,320 --> 00:22:33,919 through to engage a geotechnical 511 00:22:33,919 --> 00:22:35,360 consultant to do that. 512 00:22:35,360 --> 00:22:36,400 >> Understand? 513 00:22:36,400 --> 00:22:38,880 >> I think before we did that we want to 514 00:22:38,880 --> 00:22:41,200 know exactly what you're looking for. 515 00:22:41,200 --> 00:22:43,120 >> Sure. 516 00:22:43,120 --> 00:22:45,120 from a geotechnical standpoint, are they 517 00:22:45,120 --> 00:22:47,440 going to say, "Well, 518 00:22:47,440 --> 00:22:50,400 does it um 519 00:22:50,400 --> 00:22:54,080 does, you know, uh is is it going to 520 00:22:54,080 --> 00:22:57,200 impact our geotechnical report if it's 521 00:22:57,200 --> 00:23:01,520 500 square feet versus 499 square feet?" 522 00:23:01,520 --> 00:23:02,799 They they may be able to answer that 523 00:23:02,799 --> 00:23:04,480 question, but what they won't advise you 524 00:23:04,480 --> 00:23:07,760 on is a policy decision. Um, and it's 525 00:23:07,760 --> 00:23:09,280 really up to you as a commission to say, 526 00:23:09,280 --> 00:23:11,120 "What is our policy decision? how much 527 00:23:11,120 --> 00:23:14,960 grading are we okay with on a property 528 00:23:14,960 --> 00:23:18,000 um before we want to regulate that? 529 00:23:18,000 --> 00:23:19,840 That's a policy decision that's that's 530 00:23:19,840 --> 00:23:22,799 up to the up to the commission and a 531 00:23:22,799 --> 00:23:24,480 geotechnical consultant isn't going to 532 00:23:24,480 --> 00:23:27,120 be able to advise you on that. 533 00:23:27,120 --> 00:23:29,520 So for example, we could make a 534 00:23:29,520 --> 00:23:33,120 different minimum for a landslide hazard 535 00:23:33,120 --> 00:23:36,080 zone or for a geologic hazard zone and 536 00:23:36,080 --> 00:23:38,880 versus just general like you know you 537 00:23:38,880 --> 00:23:40,320 could make it like instead of 30 yards 538 00:23:40,320 --> 00:23:42,159 it's 10 yards or something if it's in a 539 00:23:42,159 --> 00:23:44,400 geological hazard zone. 540 00:23:44,400 --> 00:23:46,000 Yes, you could. And as a policy 541 00:23:46,000 --> 00:23:47,280 decision, you can make that. And and 542 00:23:47,280 --> 00:23:48,480 maybe now I'm understanding your 543 00:23:48,480 --> 00:23:49,840 question a little bit more, Paul, is to 544 00:23:49,840 --> 00:23:52,159 say, does is that supportable? Is that 545 00:23:52,159 --> 00:23:54,400 justifiable? Right. To to say, 546 00:23:54,400 --> 00:23:55,840 >> yeah, I mean, what I'm looking for is, 547 00:23:55,840 --> 00:23:57,200 you know, if you've got a a major 548 00:23:57,200 --> 00:23:59,039 downslope that's had some activity up 549 00:23:59,039 --> 00:24:01,440 above, um, and somebody wants to come in 550 00:24:01,440 --> 00:24:04,320 and, you know, take 551 00:24:04,320 --> 00:24:06,159 three or four feet off the bottom of it, 552 00:24:06,159 --> 00:24:08,960 but, you know, I mean, that's that's 553 00:24:08,960 --> 00:24:10,240 three or four feet that's supporting a 554 00:24:10,240 --> 00:24:12,640 big hill. you know, how much is going to 555 00:24:12,640 --> 00:24:15,520 be a dramatic impact on the support of 556 00:24:15,520 --> 00:24:17,919 the rest of that hill? You know, can 557 00:24:17,919 --> 00:24:19,039 yeah, if somebody comes out with a 558 00:24:19,039 --> 00:24:21,120 shovel and digs a couple feet away in a 559 00:24:21,120 --> 00:24:22,720 very small area, probably not a big 560 00:24:22,720 --> 00:24:24,720 deal, but it could be a big deal 561 00:24:24,720 --> 00:24:28,000 depending upon, you know, if it's a 100% 562 00:24:28,000 --> 00:24:30,799 slope instead of a 60% or a 30% slope, 563 00:24:30,799 --> 00:24:32,400 it might be problematic. 564 00:24:32,400 --> 00:24:34,159 >> Yeah, good good point. And yes, we we 565 00:24:34,159 --> 00:24:40,000 can get some feedback on that. Um we the UG the there's a a geohhazards 566 00:24:40,000 --> 00:24:42,240 expert at the Utah Geologic Survey that 567 00:24:42,240 --> 00:24:44,559 actually was um really critical in 568 00:24:44,559 --> 00:24:46,159 helping us craft the geological hazard 569 00:24:46,159 --> 00:24:48,720 ordinance when that whatever that was 570 00:24:48,720 --> 00:24:50,000 seven eight years ago. 571 00:24:50,000 --> 00:24:52,480 >> Um and he's he's um still with the UGS 572 00:24:52,480 --> 00:24:54,080 and is super happy to help us. We can 573 00:24:54,080 --> 00:24:55,200 engage him. 574 00:24:55,200 --> 00:24:57,200 >> Um again ultimately it's going to come 575 00:24:57,200 --> 00:24:58,799 down to a policy decision. understand 576 00:24:58,799 --> 00:24:59,279 that 577 00:24:59,279 --> 00:25:02,000 >> from the commission about how what what 578 00:25:02,000 --> 00:25:03,600 level of risk you're comfortable with 579 00:25:03,600 --> 00:25:04,559 because 580 00:25:04,559 --> 00:25:06,559 >> he may come back and say hey in some 581 00:25:06,559 --> 00:25:08,559 instances even a shovel full of dirt may 582 00:25:08,559 --> 00:25:11,600 have an impact and then it's just up to 583 00:25:11,600 --> 00:25:13,039 you as a commission to say well are we 584 00:25:13,039 --> 00:25:15,760 okay you know policy-wise with the risk 585 00:25:15,760 --> 00:25:18,000 of a shovel for full of dirt versus a 586 00:25:18,000 --> 00:25:21,590 three to four foot cut 587 00:25:21,600 --> 00:25:22,799 » but yes the short answer to your 588 00:25:22,799 --> 00:25:25,440 question is yes we can absolutely um get 589 00:25:25,440 --> 00:25:28,400 some feedback from from the UGS on that 590 00:25:28,400 --> 00:25:40,710 That'd be great. Yeah. 591 00:25:40,720 --> 00:25:42,960 » So the the other thing you had you added 592 00:25:42,960 --> 00:25:46,080 two items to your list. One one was this 593 00:25:46,080 --> 00:25:48,799 sort of any ex grading and then the 594 00:25:48,799 --> 00:25:51,039 second one referred to specifically 595 00:25:51,039 --> 00:25:53,840 >> to 15 596 00:25:53,840 --> 00:25:55,360 F9 um 597 00:25:55,360 --> 00:25:56,080 >> right right 598 00:25:56,080 --> 00:26:00,240 >> C I think it or C9 um 599 00:26:00,240 --> 00:26:01,840 >> they might be overlapping 600 00:26:01,840 --> 00:26:02,880 >> what's that 601 00:26:02,880 --> 00:26:04,159 >> they might be overlapping 602 00:26:04,159 --> 00:26:05,360 >> I think they are to some extent except 603 00:26:05,360 --> 00:26:09,679 that the way the the 15 uh F5C9 604 00:26:09,679 --> 00:26:13,919 was drafted it says uh it it presumes 605 00:26:13,919 --> 00:26:16,159 the the geotechnical report was already 606 00:26:16,159 --> 00:26:17,679 done and so 607 00:26:17,679 --> 00:26:19,279 >> worked on that. it certainly in my mind 608 00:26:19,279 --> 00:26:22,080 I wasn't thinking that well sometimes a 609 00:26:22,080 --> 00:26:23,679 geotechnical port wouldn't be required 610 00:26:23,679 --> 00:26:24,080 and there 611 00:26:24,080 --> 00:26:24,799 >> right not 612 00:26:24,799 --> 00:26:26,000 >> but in this but what we're trying to do 613 00:26:26,000 --> 00:26:28,000 is say hey we probably we need a geotech 614 00:26:28,000 --> 00:26:29,679 report and to me that seemed when I was 615 00:26:29,679 --> 00:26:31,279 doing this that seemed like a probably a 616 00:26:31,279 --> 00:26:34,880 pretty good I reason for doing it um not 617 00:26:34,880 --> 00:26:37,440 I mean a geotech study right I'm sorry 618 00:26:37,440 --> 00:26:38,320 geotech report 619 00:26:38,320 --> 00:26:41,440 >> yeah geotech yeah 620 00:26:41,440 --> 00:26:42,799 >> not necessarily against having both of 621 00:26:42,799 --> 00:26:44,159 them they just might be a little bit 622 00:26:44,159 --> 00:26:45,279 overlapping but 623 00:26:45,279 --> 00:26:47,679 >> I agreed yeah 624 00:26:47,679 --> 00:26:49,600 I I was trying to find figure a way to 625 00:26:49,600 --> 00:26:51,760 put them together, but I just said to 626 00:26:51,760 --> 00:26:54,480 probably just easy to do them separate. 627 00:26:54,480 --> 00:26:55,840 >> Maybe the staff can help us with the 628 00:26:55,840 --> 00:26:56,320 wording. 629 00:26:56,320 --> 00:26:57,760 >> Yeah, because I had the same at first I 630 00:26:57,760 --> 00:26:59,520 thought it was redundant as well, but 631 00:26:59,520 --> 00:27:05,830 now I see how it can make sense. 632 00:27:05,840 --> 00:27:07,919 So, yeah, I think if there was a way to 633 00:27:07,919 --> 00:27:10,960 incorporate that, 634 00:27:10,960 --> 00:27:12,320 >> yeah, you might be you might be able to 635 00:27:12,320 --> 00:27:14,480 incorporate into a single require that 636 00:27:14,480 --> 00:27:15,279 might 637 00:27:15,279 --> 00:27:17,200 >> make more sense in some ways. Yeah, 638 00:27:17,200 --> 00:27:19,200 >> I think that should be simple enough to 639 00:27:19,200 --> 00:27:20,400 >> okay 640 00:27:20,400 --> 00:27:21,440 >> achieve that. 641 00:27:21,440 --> 00:27:23,840 >> I think if to me if we did that and we 642 00:27:23,840 --> 00:27:26,720 had some limitation that you know said 643 00:27:26,720 --> 00:27:29,120 it's doesn't take just a shovel full but 644 00:27:29,120 --> 00:27:30,559 I don't know where that is yet. 645 00:27:30,559 --> 00:27:32,880 >> Right. 646 00:27:32,880 --> 00:27:35,760 >> Yeah, I agree. Um, since I see my notes 647 00:27:35,760 --> 00:27:38,720 are up there on the on the 648 00:27:38,720 --> 00:27:40,640 display, maybe it'd be beneficial if I 649 00:27:40,640 --> 00:27:41,840 just talk through those a little bit so 650 00:27:41,840 --> 00:27:43,200 that at least that way they go on the 651 00:27:43,200 --> 00:27:44,799 record because I want to make sure that 652 00:27:44,799 --> 00:27:47,039 you know this was the these are my 653 00:27:47,039 --> 00:27:48,080 thoughts. I didn't discuss them with 654 00:27:48,080 --> 00:27:49,120 anybody. I just sent it out to the rest 655 00:27:49,120 --> 00:27:51,760 of the everybody here so we can we can 656 00:27:51,760 --> 00:27:53,440 present it and then we can go through 657 00:27:53,440 --> 00:27:55,279 it. If that's okay, I'll try to do that 658 00:27:55,279 --> 00:27:55,600 quickly. 659 00:27:55,600 --> 00:27:56,880 >> That that would be great if you could 660 00:27:56,880 --> 00:27:58,080 talk through. 661 00:27:58,080 --> 00:28:00,640 >> So, we we talked about, you know, one 662 00:28:00,640 --> 00:28:04,080 and two there. Um item three I looked at 663 00:28:04,080 --> 00:28:06,240 uh you know should we provide more 664 00:28:06,240 --> 00:28:08,559 clarity on what stage of the development 665 00:28:08,559 --> 00:28:10,960 process the geotech report is required. 666 00:28:10,960 --> 00:28:13,840 Um probably I started to look at that 667 00:28:13,840 --> 00:28:15,279 you know three or four or five different 668 00:28:15,279 --> 00:28:17,039 times and I keep cut kept getting 669 00:28:17,039 --> 00:28:18,399 interrupted and distracted and so I 670 00:28:18,399 --> 00:28:19,679 never got finished so it's got question 671 00:28:19,679 --> 00:28:21,760 marks on it. Um something we can 672 00:28:21,760 --> 00:28:26,799 probably look to. Um 1015 F9 indicates a 673 00:28:26,799 --> 00:28:28,880 geotech or geological hazard 674 00:28:28,880 --> 00:28:30,320 investigation may be required for any 675 00:28:30,320 --> 00:28:32,159 land use entitlement. Is that too broad? 676 00:28:32,159 --> 00:28:34,799 Was the question from the staff. Um, 677 00:28:34,799 --> 00:28:36,640 should sign permits or fence permits be 678 00:28:36,640 --> 00:28:38,399 automatically exempt? When I went and 679 00:28:38,399 --> 00:28:40,960 read 1015F9E, 680 00:28:40,960 --> 00:28:42,880 it states that quote, "Springale will 681 00:28:42,880 --> 00:28:44,880 review any proposed land use requirement 682 00:28:44,880 --> 00:28:46,960 that requires preparation of geo 683 00:28:46,960 --> 00:28:48,559 geological report under the chapter 684 00:28:48,559 --> 00:28:50,960 determine compliance with standards in 685 00:28:50,960 --> 00:28:53,200 the chapter as well as other standards 686 00:28:53,200 --> 00:28:56,799 uh indicating that anyway um indicating 687 00:28:56,799 --> 00:28:58,799 that only proposed land uses that 688 00:28:58,799 --> 00:29:00,720 require a geological report are 689 00:29:00,720 --> 00:29:03,039 impacted, not all land use entitlements. 690 00:29:03,039 --> 00:29:07,360 So the the premise that uh was stated in 691 00:29:07,360 --> 00:29:10,159 this is that uh they may be required for 692 00:29:10,159 --> 00:29:13,200 all land use uh entitlements. I don't 693 00:29:13,200 --> 00:29:14,480 think that's the case. I think based on 694 00:29:14,480 --> 00:29:17,039 the way it's worded. So the question 695 00:29:17,039 --> 00:29:19,679 kind of answers itself there. I think um 696 00:29:19,679 --> 00:29:21,360 number five is it possible to craft the 697 00:29:21,360 --> 00:29:22,240 language in such a way that 698 00:29:22,240 --> 00:29:23,440 investigations are provided for 699 00:29:23,440 --> 00:29:26,720 proposals that create a generating risk 700 00:29:26,720 --> 00:29:28,640 while not overburdening lower risk types 701 00:29:28,640 --> 00:29:31,520 of development? Yes. And my comment was 702 00:29:31,520 --> 00:29:35,520 to see the recommended changes here. Um, 703 00:29:35,520 --> 00:29:38,000 and then you know I just tried to put 704 00:29:38,000 --> 00:29:39,600 everything in one place so we could look 705 00:29:39,600 --> 00:29:42,159 at it. So the next section here is 1015 706 00:29:42,159 --> 00:29:45,200 F5A. This is just copied direct out of 707 00:29:45,200 --> 00:29:47,919 the code. Um, we don't I don't I won't 708 00:29:47,919 --> 00:29:50,960 read through this um unless you want me 709 00:29:50,960 --> 00:29:53,440 to, but we can refer to it here. If you 710 00:29:53,440 --> 00:29:56,000 continue on to the next 711 00:29:56,000 --> 00:29:59,120 um this is a continuation of that. And 712 00:29:59,120 --> 00:30:02,240 then we get into 1015F5B 713 00:30:02,240 --> 00:30:04,720 uh which talks about the purposes of the 714 00:30:04,720 --> 00:30:08,000 geotech report and there to number one 715 00:30:08,000 --> 00:30:10,080 identify any problematic soils including 716 00:30:10,080 --> 00:30:12,399 subsurface soils that may be encountered 717 00:30:12,399 --> 00:30:14,159 during development and which may pose a 718 00:30:14,159 --> 00:30:16,720 risk pose a threat to the structural 719 00:30:16,720 --> 00:30:19,520 integrity of the proposed development. I 720 00:30:19,520 --> 00:30:23,600 recommended adding comma the neighboring 721 00:30:23,600 --> 00:30:26,480 properties or the surrounding community 722 00:30:26,480 --> 00:30:28,559 to this that particular statement for 723 00:30:28,559 --> 00:30:32,720 number one. Um item two goes on to say 724 00:30:32,720 --> 00:30:34,021 that provide to provide 725 00:30:34,021 --> 00:30:34,799 [cough and clears throat] specific 726 00:30:34,799 --> 00:30:37,360 engineering recommendations and I 727 00:30:37,360 --> 00:30:41,440 recommend including or the adding uh 728 00:30:41,440 --> 00:30:43,279 parenthesized statement including the 729 00:30:43,279 --> 00:30:45,679 need or requirement for a geotechnical 730 00:30:45,679 --> 00:30:47,919 investigation. 731 00:30:47,919 --> 00:30:50,640 close Bren to mitigate the threats posed 732 00:30:50,640 --> 00:30:52,880 by any problematic soils identified. And 733 00:30:52,880 --> 00:30:54,960 then the last thing or number and that 734 00:30:54,960 --> 00:30:57,440 was item three was to conduct an initial 735 00:30:57,440 --> 00:30:59,840 geo initial analysis of geological 736 00:30:59,840 --> 00:31:01,360 hazards for properties located in 737 00:31:01,360 --> 00:31:05,679 geological hazard study area. Um 738 00:31:05,679 --> 00:31:08,240 I I added a what I call an illuminating 739 00:31:08,240 --> 00:31:11,520 comment here. That's the thing in teal 740 00:31:11,520 --> 00:31:14,159 that I think 10155 741 00:31:14,159 --> 00:31:18,799 1015 F5C and 10155 FD 742 00:31:18,799 --> 00:31:20,480 were not addressed in our previous 743 00:31:20,480 --> 00:31:23,120 meeting. um as those meetings 744 00:31:23,120 --> 00:31:25,360 presupposed a geotechnical or these 745 00:31:25,360 --> 00:31:28,320 items presupposed a geotechnical report 746 00:31:28,320 --> 00:31:30,799 um but the de depth of the excavation 747 00:31:30,799 --> 00:31:32,559 into the 30% grade being greater than 748 00:31:32,559 --> 00:31:37,360 zero satisfies 1015 F-5 749 00:31:37,360 --> 00:31:39,279 C9B 750 00:31:39,279 --> 00:31:41,360 um which is in other words any 751 00:31:41,360 --> 00:31:44,000 excavation into the slope that is 752 00:31:44,000 --> 00:31:45,519 greater than a negative distance from 753 00:31:45,519 --> 00:31:47,360 the edge 754 00:31:47,360 --> 00:31:49,440 uh should require geotechnical report 755 00:31:49,440 --> 00:31:52,159 suggested by uh with the newly proposed 756 00:31:52,159 --> 00:31:53,519 addition up that I just mentioned up 757 00:31:53,519 --> 00:31:56,000 above number six. Uh so in other words, 758 00:31:56,000 --> 00:31:58,240 if you're if you're cutting into a 30% 759 00:31:58,240 --> 00:32:01,919 slope and you cut 5 feet or 6 in into 760 00:32:01,919 --> 00:32:05,760 that slope, um that's a that that 761 00:32:05,760 --> 00:32:11,120 fulfills the requirements of 10 15 FC9B. 762 00:32:11,120 --> 00:32:14,559 Um because we're less than or more than 763 00:32:14,559 --> 00:32:16,159 half the distance from the edge, we're 764 00:32:16,159 --> 00:32:17,440 actually negative distance from the 765 00:32:17,440 --> 00:32:19,840 edge. So it sort of jumps out 766 00:32:19,840 --> 00:32:21,440 automatically if we include that up 767 00:32:21,440 --> 00:32:22,880 above. So one of the reasons it got 768 00:32:22,880 --> 00:32:25,200 included up above is you know that's 769 00:32:25,200 --> 00:32:28,720 that sort of thing. And then the um 770 00:32:28,720 --> 00:32:30,640 the balance of the notes here are just 771 00:32:30,640 --> 00:32:33,919 uh again 1015 772 00:32:33,919 --> 00:32:35,600 F5C 773 00:32:35,600 --> 00:32:40,640 items 9 and 10 and 1015 F5D 774 00:32:40,640 --> 00:32:42,960 uh geological uh hazard investigation 775 00:32:42,960 --> 00:32:45,600 report when it's required and 1015 F4 776 00:32:45,600 --> 00:32:47,279 geological hazard study error. just 777 00:32:47,279 --> 00:32:49,600 copied straight out of the town code. 778 00:32:49,600 --> 00:32:57,269 So, 779 00:32:57,279 --> 00:33:00,480 » thank you. 780 00:33:00,480 --> 00:33:02,480 >> We discussed 781 00:33:02,480 --> 00:33:07,519 your your input for um for for 5A, you 782 00:33:07,519 --> 00:33:11,039 know, 1015 F5A. 783 00:33:11,039 --> 00:33:13,669 >> Yeah. 784 00:33:13,679 --> 00:33:15,039 Is there any other discussion for 785 00:33:15,039 --> 00:33:18,399 anybody else on 1015A on the 786 00:33:18,399 --> 00:33:26,630 requirements 787 00:33:26,640 --> 00:33:29,360 had a I had a few specific things on 788 00:33:29,360 --> 00:33:31,840 some of your ideas and then I had a 789 00:33:31,840 --> 00:33:34,320 couple of things of my own. 790 00:33:34,320 --> 00:33:36,240 Um 791 00:33:36,240 --> 00:33:38,640 so 792 00:33:38,640 --> 00:33:41,279 let me see here. Um we talked about the 793 00:33:41,279 --> 00:33:44,640 ating ordinance. So we'll get some 794 00:33:44,640 --> 00:33:46,880 feedback on maybe numbers that make 795 00:33:46,880 --> 00:33:50,159 sense. Um 796 00:33:50,159 --> 00:33:53,120 so uh couple other things I had. Um this 797 00:33:53,120 --> 00:33:54,559 is actually just a thought a thought 798 00:33:54,559 --> 00:33:56,720 that we could discuss um of whether it 799 00:33:56,720 --> 00:34:00,880 might make sense to add the geotechnical 800 00:34:00,880 --> 00:34:04,799 report and the geologic 801 00:34:04,799 --> 00:34:06,880 hazard 802 00:34:06,880 --> 00:34:10,720 um report to the definition section. So 803 00:34:10,720 --> 00:34:13,520 that it there's a clear definition of 804 00:34:13,520 --> 00:34:15,520 the two different reports. 805 00:34:15,520 --> 00:34:18,399 >> I like that idea. 806 00:34:18,399 --> 00:34:19,520 >> So I think that would make it it 807 00:34:19,520 --> 00:34:20,639 certainly would have made it easier for 808 00:34:20,639 --> 00:34:21,919 me. I think it would make it easier for 809 00:34:21,919 --> 00:34:23,040 other people to understand. Oh, there 810 00:34:23,040 --> 00:34:24,720 are two reports and 811 00:34:24,720 --> 00:34:26,320 >> see in the definition section what their 812 00:34:26,320 --> 00:34:27,040 relationship is. 813 00:34:27,040 --> 00:34:28,879 >> I think that could be easy to do and 814 00:34:28,879 --> 00:34:30,320 would be helpful. Yeah, 815 00:34:30,320 --> 00:34:31,520 >> I think they're I think they're in 816 00:34:31,520 --> 00:34:33,200 there. I think they're described 817 00:34:33,200 --> 00:34:34,800 somewhere else in the code, but it' be I 818 00:34:34,800 --> 00:34:35,599 think it'd be better. 819 00:34:35,599 --> 00:34:37,599 >> Yeah, they're described sort of here and 820 00:34:37,599 --> 00:34:39,440 there 821 00:34:39,440 --> 00:34:41,119 >> definitions that where people will look 822 00:34:41,119 --> 00:34:43,119 for it. Yeah. 823 00:34:43,119 --> 00:34:45,599 >> Um 824 00:34:45,599 --> 00:34:47,520 the other thing that I have here is it's 825 00:34:47,520 --> 00:34:49,599 kind of a maybe even a question to the 826 00:34:49,599 --> 00:34:52,240 staff. If if if we look at the way this 827 00:34:52,240 --> 00:34:55,119 the whole 1015XF 828 00:34:55,119 --> 00:35:00,240 sorry 1015F is is written. Um there are 829 00:35:00,240 --> 00:35:03,599 it's written around um in some parts 830 00:35:03,599 --> 00:35:06,320 it's written around land and lots and in 831 00:35:06,320 --> 00:35:07,920 some parts it's written about around 832 00:35:07,920 --> 00:35:10,880 buildings. Um for example if you look at 833 00:35:10,880 --> 00:35:12,960 1053A 834 00:35:12,960 --> 00:35:15,040 and 3B 835 00:35:15,040 --> 00:35:18,720 they discuss lands legal lots parcels 836 00:35:18,720 --> 00:35:20,800 inside of Springdale. 837 00:35:20,800 --> 00:35:24,480 But if you look at 1015 F3C 838 00:35:24,480 --> 00:35:28,000 and D, the exemptions include certain 839 00:35:28,000 --> 00:35:31,760 buildings and structures. So, so it 840 00:35:31,760 --> 00:35:35,520 applies to land except these buildings. 841 00:35:35,520 --> 00:35:38,960 So there's a kind of a logic thing that 842 00:35:38,960 --> 00:35:42,800 is a little hard to parse through. 843 00:35:42,800 --> 00:35:46,560 >> So that the terms are a little bit um 844 00:35:46,560 --> 00:35:48,800 muddled. So in some points we're talking 845 00:35:48,800 --> 00:35:50,240 about lots and sometimes we're talking 846 00:35:50,240 --> 00:35:50,720 about buildings. 847 00:35:50,720 --> 00:35:52,320 >> Sometimes we talk about buildings. Yeah. 848 00:35:52,320 --> 00:35:55,040 And structures. And it might be 849 00:35:55,040 --> 00:35:56,880 >> good to go through and say where we 850 00:35:56,880 --> 00:35:58,160 talk, you know, where we need to talk 851 00:35:58,160 --> 00:36:00,320 about buildings and structures. We 852 00:36:00,320 --> 00:36:02,240 associate those buildings and structures 853 00:36:02,240 --> 00:36:03,839 with the property or the lot that 854 00:36:03,839 --> 00:36:05,839 they're on because really the 855 00:36:05,839 --> 00:36:07,839 geotechnical report, I think, if I 856 00:36:07,839 --> 00:36:10,079 understand correctly, applies to the lot 857 00:36:10,079 --> 00:36:12,480 more so than it does the building or the 858 00:36:12,480 --> 00:36:14,560 structure. 859 00:36:14,560 --> 00:36:16,720 Um, and that might help a little bit 860 00:36:16,720 --> 00:36:18,400 clarify. 861 00:36:18,400 --> 00:36:20,000 I know for me I had to read several 862 00:36:20,000 --> 00:36:22,640 times to sort of get the sense of why 863 00:36:22,640 --> 00:36:24,320 we're talking about land here, but we're 864 00:36:24,320 --> 00:36:26,720 talking about buildings there. 865 00:36:26,720 --> 00:36:30,069 Um, 866 00:36:30,079 --> 00:36:33,589 let's see. 867 00:36:33,599 --> 00:36:35,599 Oh, and then where you uh want to add 868 00:36:35,599 --> 00:36:38,240 that parenthetical statement about uh 869 00:36:38,240 --> 00:36:40,560 requiring a ge whether or not a 870 00:36:40,560 --> 00:36:43,599 geotechnical investigation is required. 871 00:36:43,599 --> 00:36:48,400 Um, we should reference the 1015F5D 872 00:36:48,400 --> 00:36:50,880 that talks about that. Um, because 873 00:36:50,880 --> 00:36:52,960 that's that's the section that that 874 00:36:52,960 --> 00:36:54,640 talks about whether or not that 875 00:36:54,640 --> 00:36:55,920 requirement is needed. So, we should 876 00:36:55,920 --> 00:36:58,160 just reference that section if we're 877 00:36:58,160 --> 00:36:59,440 going to put that parenthetical 878 00:36:59,440 --> 00:37:01,119 statement in there. 879 00:37:01,119 --> 00:37:04,800 So I think um when I look at I mean 880 00:37:04,800 --> 00:37:06,400 you're bringing up good points Terry but 881 00:37:06,400 --> 00:37:09,839 when I look at uh 105 F3B 882 00:37:09,839 --> 00:37:14,240 um it seems to be limiting 883 00:37:14,240 --> 00:37:16,079 in that 884 00:37:16,079 --> 00:37:17,920 hazard must be mitigated in order to 885 00:37:17,920 --> 00:37:19,920 provide a buildable area with acceptable 886 00:37:19,920 --> 00:37:22,560 and reasonable access must be mitigated. 887 00:37:22,560 --> 00:37:26,000 Um, so it doesn't talk about anything 888 00:37:26,000 --> 00:37:28,880 but buildable areas 889 00:37:28,880 --> 00:37:32,480 and that may be problematic. 890 00:37:32,480 --> 00:37:34,079 >> Yeah. Again, it sort of refers to 891 00:37:34,079 --> 00:37:35,280 buildings and structures and I think 892 00:37:35,280 --> 00:37:37,200 that's part of what we've had trouble 893 00:37:37,200 --> 00:37:38,160 with 894 00:37:38,160 --> 00:37:41,040 >> when we're working on something that's 895 00:37:41,040 --> 00:37:43,200 excavation but not a building. 896 00:37:43,200 --> 00:37:44,320 >> Correct. Right. 897 00:37:44,320 --> 00:37:46,079 >> Yeah. because because the you know at 898 00:37:46,079 --> 00:37:47,440 first we're talking about you know in 899 00:37:47,440 --> 00:37:49,119 1015 900 00:37:49,119 --> 00:37:52,160 F uh where I forget where it was but you 901 00:37:52,160 --> 00:37:55,040 know we're talking about um 902 00:37:55,040 --> 00:37:56,720 you know we want to the reason we're 903 00:37:56,720 --> 00:37:59,760 doing it is to be safe for the community 904 00:37:59,760 --> 00:38:01,680 in general and you know it doesn't 905 00:38:01,680 --> 00:38:05,040 necessarily only apply to building or 906 00:38:05,040 --> 00:38:06,320 when we're doing buildings if you're 907 00:38:06,320 --> 00:38:09,280 doing other kinds of greetings 908 00:38:09,280 --> 00:38:10,320 >> problem could be a problem too 909 00:38:10,320 --> 00:38:12,079 >> could be a problem too yeah and I think 910 00:38:12,079 --> 00:38:14,400 that's where we added you know adding 911 00:38:14,400 --> 00:38:18,480 other item to that um section A that 912 00:38:18,480 --> 00:38:20,320 says, you know, here's here's something 913 00:38:20,320 --> 00:38:22,240 that's not a building that actually that 914 00:38:22,240 --> 00:38:25,040 doesn't require a building to actually 915 00:38:25,040 --> 00:38:27,119 click off. 916 00:38:27,119 --> 00:38:28,960 >> Um 917 00:38:28,960 --> 00:38:31,520 and then and then maybe something in in 918 00:38:31,520 --> 00:38:33,599 this area. I don't know specifically, 919 00:38:33,599 --> 00:38:36,000 but maybe we can ask the staff to sort 920 00:38:36,000 --> 00:38:38,400 of come up with some ideas to help us in 921 00:38:38,400 --> 00:38:41,440 wording on that. 922 00:38:41,440 --> 00:38:45,270 Um 923 00:38:45,280 --> 00:38:47,040 and then we talked about minimum 924 00:38:47,040 --> 00:38:49,520 grading. Um those were the main things I 925 00:38:49,520 --> 00:38:50,640 have. 926 00:38:50,640 --> 00:38:55,599 >> I thought it might be useful to 927 00:38:55,599 --> 00:38:58,720 elaborate on uh number four, the 928 00:38:58,720 --> 00:39:00,880 structure intended for human occupancy. 929 00:39:00,880 --> 00:39:05,280 There seemed to be a lot of um 930 00:39:05,280 --> 00:39:06,960 questions about what was human 931 00:39:06,960 --> 00:39:08,800 occupancy. So either reference a 932 00:39:08,800 --> 00:39:11,200 definition or 933 00:39:11,200 --> 00:39:13,839 um or wherever that is stated so that 934 00:39:13,839 --> 00:39:15,920 it's really 935 00:39:15,920 --> 00:39:19,440 um easy to identify what that means. 936 00:39:19,440 --> 00:39:33,829 >> Yeah. 937 00:39:33,839 --> 00:39:36,000 Um if [clears throat] anybody doesn't 938 00:39:36,000 --> 00:39:39,520 have any other input on 939 00:39:39,520 --> 00:39:43,599 uh clarity or language 940 00:39:43,599 --> 00:39:45,359 um 941 00:39:45,359 --> 00:39:47,520 we can talk about the code providing 942 00:39:47,520 --> 00:39:49,119 more clarity on what stage of the 943 00:39:49,119 --> 00:39:51,920 development process the geotechnical 944 00:39:51,920 --> 00:39:57,349 report is required. 945 00:39:57,359 --> 00:39:59,760 seemed to me we would want we would need 946 00:39:59,760 --> 00:40:02,320 to get it before a grading permit I 947 00:40:02,320 --> 00:40:04,480 would think. 948 00:40:04,480 --> 00:40:07,839 I mean in some cases it may not re you 949 00:40:07,839 --> 00:40:09,280 know you may be able to do grading and 950 00:40:09,280 --> 00:40:11,839 it's really if it's not in certain zones 951 00:40:11,839 --> 00:40:14,400 it may just be the structure that's of 952 00:40:14,400 --> 00:40:16,160 concern but I think we've run into 953 00:40:16,160 --> 00:40:18,160 problems where 954 00:40:18,160 --> 00:40:19,920 grading even before you build a 955 00:40:19,920 --> 00:40:23,440 structure raises a concern. 956 00:40:23,440 --> 00:40:25,760 So my under my guess would be that 957 00:40:25,760 --> 00:40:27,599 before any permit either a building 958 00:40:27,599 --> 00:40:30,480 permit or a grading permit if it's 959 00:40:30,480 --> 00:40:32,640 required under the ordinances it would 960 00:40:32,640 --> 00:40:37,270 be done before the permit. 961 00:40:37,280 --> 00:40:40,800 » I agree with that. 962 00:40:40,800 --> 00:40:45,599 >> Okay. Any other thoughts on that? 963 00:40:45,599 --> 00:40:48,079 And then 964 00:40:48,079 --> 00:40:50,160 I believe we've 965 00:40:50,160 --> 00:40:53,680 addressed number four. 966 00:40:53,680 --> 00:40:55,280 Um, 967 00:40:55,280 --> 00:40:57,839 unless there's any other thoughts on 968 00:40:57,839 --> 00:41:00,400 that. We're waiting for some feedback on 969 00:41:00,400 --> 00:41:04,800 that. Um, which to me ties into 970 00:41:04,800 --> 00:41:11,270 number five. 971 00:41:11,280 --> 00:41:12,640 » I think we're doing that. 972 00:41:12,640 --> 00:41:13,680 >> Yeah. 973 00:41:13,680 --> 00:41:15,440 So, it all seems like that's what 974 00:41:15,440 --> 00:41:20,069 Yeah. 975 00:41:20,079 --> 00:41:21,520 Nile, do you think there's anything else 976 00:41:21,520 --> 00:41:25,440 we need to address right now? 977 00:41:25,440 --> 00:41:27,440 >> Yeah, this this is a good discussion. 978 00:41:27,440 --> 00:41:30,400 Um, if I just run over what I think 979 00:41:30,400 --> 00:41:33,280 you've told me and then if there's 980 00:41:33,280 --> 00:41:35,920 things I've missed, please let me know. 981 00:41:35,920 --> 00:41:39,920 >> Um, okay. So, I think the general 982 00:41:39,920 --> 00:41:41,760 consensus is that there does need to be 983 00:41:41,760 --> 00:41:43,920 some clarification 984 00:41:43,920 --> 00:41:46,400 um in this chapter. 985 00:41:46,400 --> 00:41:50,240 Um there's a discussion about 986 00:41:50,240 --> 00:41:53,599 uh the minimum requirements for a 987 00:41:53,599 --> 00:41:56,319 grading permit what what those are 988 00:41:56,319 --> 00:42:00,640 currently whether it should be adjusted 989 00:42:00,640 --> 00:42:03,040 in instances 990 00:42:03,040 --> 00:42:04,800 for whether there should be a lower 991 00:42:04,800 --> 00:42:07,599 threshold I suppose for grading in 992 00:42:07,599 --> 00:42:09,920 higher hazard areas. So we're going to 993 00:42:09,920 --> 00:42:13,920 investigate that a little bit more. Um 994 00:42:13,920 --> 00:42:16,800 we talked about getting some expertise 995 00:42:16,800 --> 00:42:22,480 from um from the geologic 996 00:42:22,480 --> 00:42:25,920 uh survey people. We we do have some 997 00:42:25,920 --> 00:42:27,760 contacts there that we can bounce ideas 998 00:42:27,760 --> 00:42:30,160 off. So that will be helpful. 999 00:42:30,160 --> 00:42:32,640 um 1000 00:42:32,640 --> 00:42:36,400 the requirement for 1001 00:42:36,400 --> 00:42:38,880 a geotechnical 1002 00:42:38,880 --> 00:42:42,079 study. So the or geotechnical report. So 1003 00:42:42,079 --> 00:42:48,079 the these five here we want to add in um 1004 00:42:48,079 --> 00:42:51,520 a requirement for that anytime the slope 1005 00:42:51,520 --> 00:42:53,200 stability 1006 00:42:53,200 --> 00:42:56,480 requirement kicks in. uh that that 1007 00:42:56,480 --> 00:42:58,480 ordinance revision that the commission 1008 00:42:58,480 --> 00:43:03,760 worked on a year or two ago. So that should be plugged in here so that 1009 00:43:03,760 --> 00:43:08,319 it doesn't get missed. Um 1010 00:43:08,319 --> 00:43:11,760 okay. Um 1011 00:43:11,760 --> 00:43:17,190 we wanted to um 1012 00:43:17,200 --> 00:43:20,000 yeah may add clearer definitions or add 1013 00:43:20,000 --> 00:43:22,480 definitions to the definition section on 1014 00:43:22,480 --> 00:43:26,079 geotech report and geo geologic hazard 1015 00:43:26,079 --> 00:43:28,160 investigations. So, they're kind of more 1016 00:43:28,160 --> 00:43:31,040 at hand and easier to to pinpoint what 1017 00:43:31,040 --> 00:43:34,560 they mean. Um, we need to look at some 1018 00:43:34,560 --> 00:43:37,200 of the terms. So, where we're talking 1019 00:43:37,200 --> 00:43:39,040 about buildings and structures and when 1020 00:43:39,040 --> 00:43:41,200 we're talking about land and property 1021 00:43:41,200 --> 00:43:43,359 that 1022 00:43:43,359 --> 00:43:45,839 to look at those those terms and make 1023 00:43:45,839 --> 00:43:48,000 sure that it's consistent and clear what 1024 00:43:48,000 --> 00:43:53,760 we're referring to here and make that easier to follow. 1025 00:43:53,760 --> 00:43:56,640 Um, 1026 00:43:56,640 --> 00:43:59,200 let's see. We wanted a little bit more 1027 00:43:59,200 --> 00:44:04,000 clarity on what um, a structure intended 1028 00:44:04,000 --> 00:44:07,920 for human occupancy actually is. 1029 00:44:07,920 --> 00:44:09,760 Um, 1030 00:44:09,760 --> 00:44:11,920 and then there's discussion about what 1031 00:44:11,920 --> 00:44:14,800 stage in the development process 1032 00:44:14,800 --> 00:44:20,000 uh, these requirements apply to. And it 1033 00:44:20,000 --> 00:44:22,480 I think it's already pretty clear that a 1034 00:44:22,480 --> 00:44:24,400 design development review on those sorts 1035 00:44:24,400 --> 00:44:28,960 of applications it's a requirement. Um 1036 00:44:28,960 --> 00:44:31,280 but the feedback is that it should also 1037 00:44:31,280 --> 00:44:33,680 apply to situations where grading is 1038 00:44:33,680 --> 00:44:36,160 happening that these um these 1039 00:44:36,160 --> 00:44:37,920 assessments should be required in those 1040 00:44:37,920 --> 00:44:40,560 instances too. 1041 00:44:40,560 --> 00:44:43,760 Is there anything I've missed or gone 1042 00:44:43,760 --> 00:44:46,480 wrong there? 1043 00:44:46,480 --> 00:44:55,270 I don't think you've missed anything. 1044 00:44:55,280 --> 00:45:02,950 Is there any other discussion? 1045 00:45:02,960 --> 00:45:06,319 If everybody has 1046 00:45:06,319 --> 00:45:08,880 no more comments, then is there a motion 1047 00:45:08,880 --> 00:45:15,670 to adjurnn? 1048 00:45:15,680 --> 00:45:16,079 thought that's 1049 00:45:16,079 --> 00:45:18,480 >> I mean I think I think that we probably 1050 00:45:18,480 --> 00:45:20,880 need to and maybe it's not tonight maybe 1051 00:45:20,880 --> 00:45:23,839 we need to get some go away and think 1052 00:45:23,839 --> 00:45:25,599 about it or whatever and come back but I 1053 00:45:25,599 --> 00:45:27,119 think we need to talk more about you 1054 00:45:27,119 --> 00:45:30,240 know the you know what's the the scope 1055 00:45:30,240 --> 00:45:32,160 it's not everything so how do we limit 1056 00:45:32,160 --> 00:45:34,319 that and is grading you know how much we 1057 00:45:34,319 --> 00:45:38,079 how much is being graded or whatever is that sufficient or is there other 1058 00:45:38,079 --> 00:45:39,359 things because one of the things I 1059 00:45:39,359 --> 00:45:43,440 mentioned in my Um item five that I was 1060 00:45:43,440 --> 00:45:46,560 adding was any development involving 1061 00:45:46,560 --> 00:45:48,880 soil disturbance or unnatural soil soil 1062 00:45:48,880 --> 00:45:50,160 loading whether it be grading, 1063 00:45:50,160 --> 00:45:52,319 excavation, tunneling, drilling, 1064 00:45:52,319 --> 00:45:54,640 compaction or other similar activities 1065 00:45:54,640 --> 00:45:58,400 in a known hazard geohhazard study area. 1066 00:45:58,400 --> 00:46:01,119 Um 1067 00:46:01,119 --> 00:46:01,920 >> I assume 1068 00:46:01,920 --> 00:46:03,200 >> grading grading you know if you come in 1069 00:46:03,200 --> 00:46:05,760 and you put a huge weight on the soil to 1070 00:46:05,760 --> 00:46:08,000 compact it which which has done in some 1071 00:46:08,000 --> 00:46:10,000 cases in development particularly if the 1072 00:46:10,000 --> 00:46:11,119 you know it's been 1073 00:46:11,119 --> 00:46:13,839 >> disturbed in the past um and that 1074 00:46:13,839 --> 00:46:15,760 happens to be at the top of a a major 1075 00:46:15,760 --> 00:46:17,599 slope. Is there a is there a problem 1076 00:46:17,599 --> 00:46:19,359 with that? And do we need to have a a 1077 00:46:19,359 --> 00:46:20,880 geo study to 1078 00:46:20,880 --> 00:46:22,640 >> But there's there's also these vibrating 1079 00:46:22,640 --> 00:46:25,119 compactors. They'll vibrate the heck out 1080 00:46:25,119 --> 00:46:25,520 of a slope, 1081 00:46:25,520 --> 00:46:27,200 >> right? So there's, you know, there's a 1082 00:46:27,200 --> 00:46:28,480 bunch of different, you know, if you 1083 00:46:28,480 --> 00:46:30,160 were to if you were to take, again on 1084 00:46:30,160 --> 00:46:32,319 the top of a slope, if you tunnel to the 1085 00:46:32,319 --> 00:46:33,920 bottom of or somewhere out the side of 1086 00:46:33,920 --> 00:46:37,280 the slope and put a put a tube in there, 1087 00:46:37,280 --> 00:46:39,200 um, and don't seal it, you know, because 1088 00:46:39,200 --> 00:46:40,560 you want to provide drainage down 1089 00:46:40,560 --> 00:46:42,480 through there, there's a potential that, 1090 00:46:42,480 --> 00:46:44,720 you know, if it's not sealed properly at 1091 00:46:44,720 --> 00:46:46,960 the top and and the bottom, uh, the 1092 00:46:46,960 --> 00:46:48,960 drainage becomes not through the tube 1093 00:46:48,960 --> 00:46:50,400 because it gets plugged, but around the 1094 00:46:50,400 --> 00:46:51,760 tube, through the middle of the earth, 1095 00:46:51,760 --> 00:46:53,200 and next thing you know, the whole the 1096 00:46:53,200 --> 00:46:54,960 whole slope disappears around the thing. 1097 00:46:54,960 --> 00:46:56,960 And so there's there's considerations 1098 00:46:56,960 --> 00:46:59,839 that that I don't have the the 1099 00:46:59,839 --> 00:47:01,359 necessarily 1100 00:47:01,359 --> 00:47:03,359 engineering technical geo engineering 1101 00:47:03,359 --> 00:47:05,440 technical expertise to answer all those 1102 00:47:05,440 --> 00:47:07,680 questions but um I think that they're 1103 00:47:07,680 --> 00:47:09,119 important for us to consider and maybe 1104 00:47:09,119 --> 00:47:11,200 we should look at them. So, 1105 00:47:11,200 --> 00:47:13,200 >> so, so maybe you know if you get 1106 00:47:13,200 --> 00:47:14,880 whatever feedback you can get from the 1107 00:47:14,880 --> 00:47:16,000 engineering 1108 00:47:16,000 --> 00:47:17,680 >> if we can get information on things like 1109 00:47:17,680 --> 00:47:19,200 that is 1110 00:47:19,200 --> 00:47:21,760 >> um you know what maybe what kinds of 1111 00:47:21,760 --> 00:47:24,640 development activities you know putting 1112 00:47:24,640 --> 00:47:26,160 tunneling or you know other things that 1113 00:47:26,160 --> 00:47:30,160 we maybe should think about um or how 1114 00:47:30,160 --> 00:47:30,640 you know 1115 00:47:30,640 --> 00:47:32,800 >> and you know this I provided just a very 1116 00:47:32,800 --> 00:47:36,160 simple list that you know could probably 1117 00:47:36,160 --> 00:47:38,000 be expanded upon a good deal but you 1118 00:47:38,000 --> 00:47:40,720 know somebody knowledge of 1119 00:47:40,720 --> 00:47:42,960 in indepth knowledge of the subject. You 1120 00:47:42,960 --> 00:47:44,079 know, I don't think we need to go out 1121 00:47:44,079 --> 00:47:46,400 and spend a bazillion dollars trying to 1122 00:47:46,400 --> 00:47:48,560 figure out, you know, to re-engineer all 1123 00:47:48,560 --> 00:47:49,599 this stuff. I'm sure it's been thought 1124 00:47:49,599 --> 00:47:52,079 about a lot before, but um we might be 1125 00:47:52,079 --> 00:47:54,319 able to get some clarity that would help 1126 00:47:54,319 --> 00:47:56,079 us figure things out. 1127 00:47:56,079 --> 00:47:57,839 >> And and again, you know, we have an 1128 00:47:57,839 --> 00:48:00,079 opportunity for the DCD to say, you 1129 00:48:00,079 --> 00:48:02,800 know, this particular situation requires 1130 00:48:02,800 --> 00:48:04,480 it. So I think we should leave leave 1131 00:48:04,480 --> 00:48:07,920 that in for things where you know we 1132 00:48:07,920 --> 00:48:09,520 just we can't think of everything in 1133 00:48:09,520 --> 00:48:10,160 front ahead. 1134 00:48:10,160 --> 00:48:11,280 >> Sure. Right. 1135 00:48:11,280 --> 00:48:12,880 >> But at the same time we want to put 1136 00:48:12,880 --> 00:48:15,040 enough meat into it so that if somebody 1137 00:48:15,040 --> 00:48:16,240 just does it 1138 00:48:16,240 --> 00:48:16,560 >> Yeah. 1139 00:48:16,560 --> 00:48:18,880 >> without asking about it, you know, 1140 00:48:18,880 --> 00:48:20,319 because they don't know any better or 1141 00:48:20,319 --> 00:48:22,800 because we don't address it anywhere 1142 00:48:22,800 --> 00:48:24,400 that, you know, we have some some sort 1143 00:48:24,400 --> 00:48:26,800 of a catch that that gives the DCD the 1144 00:48:26,800 --> 00:48:28,079 opportunity to say, "Whoa, wait a 1145 00:48:28,079 --> 00:48:29,920 minute. We need to get a a study done 1146 00:48:29,920 --> 00:48:39,829 before you go off and do this." So yeah, 1147 00:48:39,839 --> 00:48:42,880 » anything else? 1148 00:48:42,880 --> 00:48:46,000 >> We adjourn. 1149 00:48:46,000 --> 00:48:46,720 >> There a second. 1150 00:48:46,720 --> 00:48:48,000 >> I will second. 1151 00:48:48,000 --> 00:48:50,559 >> Motion by Paul, second by Terry. All in 1152 00:48:50,559 --> 00:48:51,200 favor? 1153 00:48:51,200 --> 00:48:52,079 >> Terry? I 1154 00:48:52,079 --> 00:48:53,040 >> Jennifer I. 1155 00:48:53,040 --> 00:48:54,000 >> Paul I. 1156 00:48:54,000 --> 00:48:54,720 >> Hash I. 1157 00:48:54,720 --> 00:48:55,760 >> Alis I. 1158 00:48:55,760 --> 00:48:59,319 >> Meeting is adjourned.