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5:00 p.m. and we're at the Canyon

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Community Center for the March 18th

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meeting of the Springdale Planning

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Commission.

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From the town, we have Neil Connelly,

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Tom Dancy, Robin Romero, and April

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Raddatz.

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On the dais, we have Matt Fink, Zion

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National Park representative,

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Tom Kenniston, Terry Kuschki, myself

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Jennifer McCullough, Paul Zimmerman,

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and Melissa Labord. Rich Swanson and

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Kash Battie are out tonight. Melissa,

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can you vote in tonight's proceedings?

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Thank you.

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Is there a motion to approve tonight's

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agenda?

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I move we approve tonight's agenda. I

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second.

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Motion by Paul, second by Melissa. All

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in favor? Tom, I.

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Terry, I. Jennifer, I. Paul, I. Melissa,

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I.

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Motion passes.

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Are there any general announcements from

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the town?

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Um we just have two Well, well, one

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announcement with two parts, actually.

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Um

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we have two surveys that are currently

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out um

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in the community that we would love some

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um additional participation.

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The first is the Utah State University

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Utah Wellbeing Project Survey. This is

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the survey that asks Springdale

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residents about their perceptions of

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wellbeing in the community. We did this

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survey in partnership with Utah State

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University back in 2024.

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And now we're doing it again in 2026. Um

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even if you participated or maybe

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especially if you participated in 2024,

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it is super important that you

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participate again in 2026 so we can see

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how um the community's

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um perceptions of wellbeing in the

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community have changed in the past 2

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years and also so that we can compare

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our results to our peer communities

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across the state.

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Um there've been a a several emails that

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have gone out about this.

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Um and so

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please, if you have not as a commission,

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if you haven't taken the survey yet,

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please take the survey. Also, as you're

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um

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talking to your friends and neighbors,

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encourage them to take the survey as

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well.

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Last year we had about 140 responses. So

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far this year we have about 32.

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So, we we need a lot more.

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Um the second survey is our messaging initiative survey. This is the

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um survey that asks for your feedback

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about the proposal to do a a um

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coordinated

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message messaging um effort to our

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residents about the importance of

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Springdale and what Springdale is and Springdale identity to help

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encourage more thoughtful um

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behavior from visitors when they visit

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Springdale.

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Um there is we we did a really cool

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presentation on this last month. And if

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you missed that presentation, there's a

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link to it available on on the town's

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website.

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Um so please watch that presentation if

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you haven't already and after you've

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watched the presentation, take that

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survey as well. Um and that's those two

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surveys will be super important as we

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move forward. So,

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there you go.

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Okay, if there's no other general

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announcements, Uh I got something.

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>> Oh, please.

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Good evening.

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So, um

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staff at the park has reported an

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increase of visitors coming to the

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visitor center by the south entrance um

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expecting to obtain an America the

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Beautiful Pass, Veteran Pass, all the

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various physical passes that we give

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out. Um

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so if the community can help us spread

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the word that um those passes are not

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available at the visitor center um that

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if folks want to get a pass, they would

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have to do it at our south entrance

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through the vehicle lane or on uh

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online. So, um we think that that some

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well-meaning folks are are telling

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people to get it at the visitor center.

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So, would appreciate the community's

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help with that.

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Is there anything else?

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Does anyone have any potential conflicts

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they'd like to disclose at this time?

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Uh for tonight's agenda, we have two

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action items. The first is a discussion

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about potentially introducing a

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requirement for a new permit to deal

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with construction phase storm water

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management. The staff contact is Neil

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Connelly who will who will be

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presenting.

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Okay, thank you.

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Um

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so this item comes from a proposal from

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the town street department about how we

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can better manage pollution impacts

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during the construction phase

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uh of projects.

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So, in particular, we're talking about

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polluted storm water runoff and mud

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tracked onto streets, those sorts of

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impacts that can occur during the

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construction phase of of development.

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Um

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the state of Utah requires storm water

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management permits for all construction

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projects over a certain size.

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And so those projects are required to

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have a storm water pollution prevention

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plan or a SWIP uh while they're under

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construction.

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Um

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because of the small size of Springdale,

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uh all of that is is taken care of by

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the state. So, uh we don't see those

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permits and the state is the enforcement

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body for those.

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Um

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and obviously with the location of

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Springdale relative to uh

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you know, the the state more broadly um

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and with the their resources being

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spread across the state, um

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they they do respond to complaints, but

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they're generally not able to be very

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proactive um

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on projects in Springdale.

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And so as town staff, we try to fill in

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those gaps where there are those sorts

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of impacts arising uh coordinating with

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the

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uh streets department and community

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development together.

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Um

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so

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the staff thinks it would be worthwhile

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for the commission to consider a new

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process to help this run more smoothly.

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Uh so the streets supervisor, Robert

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George, who's here this evening, uh put

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together a memo explaining how this

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could work and that was put into your uh

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packet.

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Um so just briefly, it would require

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construction projects to apply for an

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additional permit from the town of

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Springdale.

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Um the permits themselves would be

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essentially a pro forma that an

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applicant would would fill in um

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and it would require them to show that

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they're following best practice

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uh procedures for managing storm water,

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those sorts of things.

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Um and then they're they would be

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required to submit

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time-stamped photos and kind of during

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the construction process to the streets

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department to make sure that

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um

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you know, the the

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project is is adhering to those

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standards.

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Um so the intention really is is to

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increase compliance across our

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construction sites and to enable us to

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take enforcement enforcement action if

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it becomes necessary.

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Um so we have Robert George as street

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supervisor here. Um he can provide a

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little bit more detail on how the the

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process might work. Um

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and if this idea is something that the

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commission would like to pursue

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um at a future meeting, we could look at

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potential ordinance language

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for how

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you know, we we would knit that into the

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code.

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So, I'm I'm happy to answer any

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questions. Uh Robert's probably more

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knowledgeable on this and he's he's here

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to available to answer questions, too.

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I guess I'll I'll start. Um

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I I have some questions that are sort of

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somewhere between questions and

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comments, but I'll go ahead and start

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here. Um

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>> [clears throat and cough]

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>> So, as I read through

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the the uh the write-up and the

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ordinance,

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I I got to thinking about

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land disturbances that are less than 1

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acre. And

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is there

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a bottom minimum?

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For example,

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if a property owner wants to create, you

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know, a garden plot and they take their

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shovel out and dig around,

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you're disturbing the land

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at less than 1 acre.

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I can't imagine that that requires uh

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you know, a whole

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>> [laughter]

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>> section 3 SPPE and all of that. Um

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and so I was kind of thinking about So,

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it's kind of the question, does the

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state Well, the state has a

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1-acre minimum. So, if we go under 1

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acre,

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what would we propose the minimum is?

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So, that somebody who wants to takes out

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their shovel and digs a little bit in

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the backyard doesn't have to file a

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permit or is that what you want?

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me to take that, Robert? Yeah.

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Robert George, streets department. Uh to

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answer your question, you guys can set

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what you want it to be. So, um other

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municipalities that I looked at online

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that are kind of doing the same thing,

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Some of them have threshold of 5,000

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square feet. That way, like you said,

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you're not catching the people that are

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trying to do a garden or doing little

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[clears throat] things on their

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property. So, it would capture 5,000

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square feet up to that acre.

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Talking to St. George

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department about it and also our

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engineer,

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they suggested to keep the one acre

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in there and not go below below that for

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a threshold. Keep it at one acre.

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They said that that way it captures

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anything and everything. But, you can

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set the floor of what you want it to be.

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Um

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So, the other the other question I had

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is um

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the calculation of one acre. So, if if you do three little spots of

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excavation

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on a one-acre property, is that one

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acre?

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Or do you count up just the square

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footages of the parts of the excavation?

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So, it de- it depends. So, if it's part

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of a common development,

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you like let's say Anasazi, it was a big

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development when it started and now you

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have individual lots that need to be

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built out with houses and whatnot.

284
00:11:12,560 --> 00:11:14,680
Those, it doesn't matter the square

285
00:11:14,680 --> 00:11:17,280
footage because they're under the

286
00:11:17,280 --> 00:11:18,880
common.

287
00:11:18,880 --> 00:11:21,440
It could be 800 square feet. They have

288
00:11:21,440 --> 00:11:23,080
to have that SWIP agreement with the

289
00:11:23,080 --> 00:11:25,280
state.

290
00:11:25,280 --> 00:11:27,560
Okay. I I would like to mirror the same

291
00:11:27,560 --> 00:11:31,080
thing on our end.

292
00:11:31,080 --> 00:11:32,640
Um

293
00:11:32,640 --> 00:11:34,160
Is

294
00:11:34,160 --> 00:11:37,839
Okay, let me let me make a sort of odd

295
00:11:37,839 --> 00:11:39,520
you know, exaggeration of a statement,

296
00:11:39,520 --> 00:11:42,200
but when the pioneers came here, they

297
00:11:42,200 --> 00:11:44,920
divided the this valley into

298
00:11:44,920 --> 00:11:47,320
subdivisions of what was here.

299
00:11:47,320 --> 00:11:51,240
How far back of a subdivision

300
00:11:51,240 --> 00:11:54,360
do we go to say, well, this is part of

301
00:11:54,360 --> 00:11:55,960
what used to be a even bigger property

302
00:11:55,960 --> 00:11:58,200
and was subdivided?

303
00:11:58,200 --> 00:12:01,839
That I can't answer. The SWIP program

304
00:12:01,839 --> 00:12:04,600
from the federal side, which would be

305
00:12:04,600 --> 00:12:07,720
the national pollution discharge

306
00:12:07,720 --> 00:12:09,920
elimination system, that didn't start

307
00:12:09,920 --> 00:12:12,320
until the '90s. So, that is something we

308
00:12:12,320 --> 00:12:14,200
would need to look at.

309
00:12:14,200 --> 00:12:18,640
But, I would imagine any development

310
00:12:18,640 --> 00:12:19,040
would need

311
00:12:19,040 --> 00:12:22,040
>> Say since when the when the ordinance or

312
00:12:22,040 --> 00:12:23,560
the law was put in place, say for

313
00:12:23,560 --> 00:12:25,600
example, like in the '90s or something.

314
00:12:25,600 --> 00:12:27,160
>> Yeah, I would have to verify that, but I

315
00:12:27,160 --> 00:12:29,240
would think at least from the '90s.

316
00:12:29,240 --> 00:12:30,160
Okay.

317
00:12:30,160 --> 00:12:31,360
Yeah, cuz I was kind of wondering. I

318
00:12:31,360 --> 00:12:34,160
mean, in a sense, every property here

319
00:12:34,160 --> 00:12:36,800
was subdivided at one time. Sure.

320
00:12:36,800 --> 00:12:45,829
Okay.

321
00:12:45,839 --> 00:12:48,160
Would we want to think about excluding

322
00:12:48,160 --> 00:12:50,839
agricultural uses or even gardening

323
00:12:50,839 --> 00:12:52,320
itself?

324
00:12:52,320 --> 00:12:53,160
Um

325
00:12:53,160 --> 00:12:55,680
And only look at um

326
00:12:55,680 --> 00:12:57,880
you know, um

327
00:12:57,880 --> 00:12:59,800
a property where there's a permit for

328
00:12:59,800 --> 00:13:02,680
construction or you know, for a home or

329
00:13:02,680 --> 00:13:10,990
commercial building.

330
00:13:11,000 --> 00:13:13,360
Does the original does that state

331
00:13:13,360 --> 00:13:14,880
ordinances

332
00:13:14,880 --> 00:13:16,320
discuss

333
00:13:16,320 --> 00:13:19,160
agricultural land

334
00:13:19,160 --> 00:13:21,920
disturbances? Um I do not believe that

335
00:13:21,920 --> 00:13:24,280
agricultural is part of that.

336
00:13:24,280 --> 00:13:27,230
It's separate.

337
00:13:27,240 --> 00:13:29,120
So,

338
00:13:29,120 --> 00:13:31,120
it's separate by what

339
00:13:31,120 --> 00:13:34,040
uh measure, I guess. I would have to dig

340
00:13:34,040 --> 00:13:36,720
into the state regulations of what that

341
00:13:36,720 --> 00:13:39,960
is. Um there's a giant rabbit hole to go

342
00:13:39,960 --> 00:13:43,120
down with all of that. Um I skimmed the

343
00:13:43,120 --> 00:13:45,760
surface coming up with this. I mean, I

344
00:13:45,760 --> 00:13:47,440
spent 20 hours going through

345
00:13:47,440 --> 00:13:48,440
documentation.

346
00:13:48,440 --> 00:13:51,480
Right. But, I could go much further and

347
00:13:51,480 --> 00:13:54,120
it's it'll take you a lot of places.

348
00:13:54,120 --> 00:13:56,360
So, I think intent

349
00:13:56,360 --> 00:13:58,480
when it was first started through the

350
00:13:58,480 --> 00:14:00,360
federal government, it was basically

351
00:14:00,360 --> 00:14:04,240
started so that storm water and illicit

352
00:14:04,240 --> 00:14:06,120
discharges didn't make it to bodies of

353
00:14:06,120 --> 00:14:09,320
water for populations and like

354
00:14:09,320 --> 00:14:12,079
industrial sites, that kind of thing.

355
00:14:12,079 --> 00:14:14,640
From there, it was part of the Clean

356
00:14:14,640 --> 00:14:17,480
Waters Act through the EPA.

357
00:14:17,480 --> 00:14:21,200
They then went through and 47

358
00:14:21,200 --> 00:14:25,160
of the 50 states have their own layer of

359
00:14:25,160 --> 00:14:27,040
that that's more stringent than what the

360
00:14:27,040 --> 00:14:28,839
federal level is. There's three states

361
00:14:28,839 --> 00:14:29,839
that

362
00:14:29,839 --> 00:14:32,200
the federal government still regulates,

363
00:14:32,200 --> 00:14:35,400
but of those 47, they made their own

364
00:14:35,400 --> 00:14:37,160
rules and regulations that were more

365
00:14:37,160 --> 00:14:40,839
stringent strict than the federal one.

366
00:14:40,839 --> 00:14:43,120
And so, that's when you've come into

367
00:14:43,120 --> 00:14:45,360
like so

368
00:14:45,360 --> 00:14:48,360
it's based on population.

369
00:14:48,360 --> 00:14:50,079
Half of it, the other half of it is

370
00:14:50,079 --> 00:14:52,160
based on what you have. So,

371
00:14:52,160 --> 00:14:54,680
normally for small system, which is

372
00:14:54,680 --> 00:14:58,000
called an MS4, it's based on 50,000

373
00:14:58,000 --> 00:15:00,320
people in the population. However, a

374
00:15:00,320 --> 00:15:03,160
place like Kanab doesn't have 50,000

375
00:15:03,160 --> 00:15:04,720
people. They have like 5,000, but

376
00:15:04,720 --> 00:15:06,360
because of the local waters and the

377
00:15:06,360 --> 00:15:08,680
things that they have, the state has

378
00:15:08,680 --> 00:15:11,160
mandated them that they have to be a

379
00:15:11,160 --> 00:15:14,839
part of the state program. Part of this

380
00:15:14,839 --> 00:15:18,320
is that might come later for us and so,

381
00:15:18,320 --> 00:15:20,760
it's just kind of getting on board plus

382
00:15:20,760 --> 00:15:24,200
gives us some teeth to manage this

383
00:15:24,200 --> 00:15:26,040
because right now, I can go down the

384
00:15:26,040 --> 00:15:27,800
street, somebody can track out onto the

385
00:15:27,800 --> 00:15:28,959
road.

386
00:15:28,959 --> 00:15:30,880
I can ask them not to do it, but we have

387
00:15:30,880 --> 00:15:33,360
no teeth to make them stop doing what

388
00:15:33,360 --> 00:15:35,520
they're doing. And so, with having this

389
00:15:35,520 --> 00:15:38,079
program in place, we now have a way to

390
00:15:38,079 --> 00:15:42,790
start mitigating some of this.

391
00:15:42,800 --> 00:15:45,600
Yeah. Yeah, I mean, overall, I think

392
00:15:45,600 --> 00:15:47,795
it's a good idea for us to have

393
00:15:47,795 --> 00:15:48,160
>> [clears throat]

394
00:15:48,160 --> 00:15:50,600
>> something to mitigate

395
00:15:50,600 --> 00:15:52,360
flows that might flow into the Virgin

396
00:15:52,360 --> 00:15:53,280
River.

397
00:15:53,280 --> 00:15:56,079
Um but, I think we have some things we

398
00:15:56,079 --> 00:15:58,480
have to discuss and look at in terms of

399
00:15:58,480 --> 00:16:00,120
like we say, like you know, thought, you

400
00:16:00,120 --> 00:16:02,640
know, we're not impacting small home

401
00:16:02,640 --> 00:16:04,040
projects.

402
00:16:04,040 --> 00:16:05,640
Um

403
00:16:05,640 --> 00:16:07,520
There's a you know, the the focus is a

404
00:16:07,520 --> 00:16:09,320
little on

405
00:16:09,320 --> 00:16:11,880
things that water that might end up into

406
00:16:11,880 --> 00:16:14,720
the drainage systems of the town.

407
00:16:14,720 --> 00:16:18,000
Um a number of properties don't have

408
00:16:18,000 --> 00:16:21,240
drainage systems nearby, but the water

409
00:16:21,240 --> 00:16:22,839
but it's still

410
00:16:22,839 --> 00:16:24,800
runoff still could end up in the river.

411
00:16:24,800 --> 00:16:25,839
Right.

412
00:16:25,839 --> 00:16:27,920
Um I assume the intent is even if you

413
00:16:27,920 --> 00:16:29,680
don't have a drainage system nearby,

414
00:16:29,680 --> 00:16:32,280
you're still supposed to take care of

415
00:16:32,280 --> 00:16:34,920
this issue um so that the whatever

416
00:16:34,920 --> 00:16:35,839
you're

417
00:16:35,839 --> 00:16:37,360
doing in the construction site doesn't

418
00:16:37,360 --> 00:16:39,560
end up in the river even directly over

419
00:16:39,560 --> 00:16:47,949
land. Right.

420
00:16:47,959 --> 00:16:49,120
I mean, a lot of everything else I have

421
00:16:49,120 --> 00:16:51,079
is more on comments, so I'll kind of

422
00:16:51,079 --> 00:16:51,880
hold it for the comments.

423
00:16:51,880 --> 00:16:53,880
>> Um one thing I'd like to add, if you

424
00:16:53,880 --> 00:16:57,920
don't mind, is um so, on these um

425
00:16:57,920 --> 00:17:00,160
subdivisions like Anasazi, that kind of

426
00:17:00,160 --> 00:17:02,079
thing. So, that's through the state

427
00:17:02,079 --> 00:17:03,560
system.

428
00:17:03,560 --> 00:17:05,720
Part of that common development, it

429
00:17:05,720 --> 00:17:07,040
doesn't matter the size. If you put a

430
00:17:07,040 --> 00:17:09,160
house there, there has to be things.

431
00:17:09,160 --> 00:17:10,920
What part of this does, when they go

432
00:17:10,920 --> 00:17:12,360
through the

433
00:17:12,360 --> 00:17:15,199
permitting process, is

434
00:17:15,199 --> 00:17:17,320
we're kind of a check and balance for

435
00:17:17,320 --> 00:17:19,800
them saying, "Hey, as part of your

436
00:17:19,800 --> 00:17:22,040
review process, you need to check some

437
00:17:22,040 --> 00:17:23,720
boxes that

438
00:17:23,720 --> 00:17:26,120
you are going to get a hold of the state

439
00:17:26,120 --> 00:17:30,120
and do your SWIP stuff. And also, it

440
00:17:30,120 --> 00:17:32,840
creates an avenue for us. So, if they

441
00:17:32,840 --> 00:17:35,520
don't do that, we can then be like,

442
00:17:35,520 --> 00:17:38,840
"Hey, part of this permit process, you

443
00:17:38,840 --> 00:17:40,760
agreed to send us pictures, you were

444
00:17:40,760 --> 00:17:42,760
going to get a hold of the state. You

445
00:17:42,760 --> 00:17:44,480
haven't sent any of those emails and

446
00:17:44,480 --> 00:17:45,800
stuff.

447
00:17:45,800 --> 00:17:48,200
I can have a folder of the pictures or

448
00:17:48,200 --> 00:17:50,200
the non-compliance. We can then send

449
00:17:50,200 --> 00:17:52,640
that to the state and say, "Do with it

450
00:17:52,640 --> 00:17:55,240
what you will. Here is a violation that

451
00:17:55,240 --> 00:17:56,840
you guys didn't know about. Can you

452
00:17:56,840 --> 00:17:58,679
please come down and take care of it?"

453
00:17:58,679 --> 00:18:00,720
The other half of that is the stuff

454
00:18:00,720 --> 00:18:02,400
that's under the acre.

455
00:18:02,400 --> 00:18:04,920
We don't have anything in place now.

456
00:18:04,920 --> 00:18:07,040
Same kind of thing. Send us your photos,

457
00:18:07,040 --> 00:18:09,400
that kind of thing. If you're not doing

458
00:18:09,400 --> 00:18:11,280
what we need you to do,

459
00:18:11,280 --> 00:18:13,480
this is the steps we'll take to make

460
00:18:13,480 --> 00:18:26,430
sure that you remedy the situation.

461
00:18:26,440 --> 00:18:32,149
Are there any other questions?

462
00:18:32,159 --> 00:18:34,800
Okay, we'll move into planning

463
00:18:34,800 --> 00:18:39,110
commission discussion.

464
00:18:39,120 --> 00:18:40,360
You have some comments.

465
00:18:40,360 --> 00:18:41,240
>> I

466
00:18:41,240 --> 00:18:43,159
Terry, I share same lot of the same

467
00:18:43,159 --> 00:18:44,440
concerns you had. I mean, you know, I

468
00:18:44,440 --> 00:18:45,960
looked at it this and said, "Do you if I

469
00:18:45,960 --> 00:18:47,440
want to put a fire

470
00:18:47,440 --> 00:18:48,679
pit in the mid front yard and dig a

471
00:18:48,679 --> 00:18:50,360
little hole and put some bricks around

472
00:18:50,360 --> 00:18:52,440
it, is that a a disturbance that's going

473
00:18:52,440 --> 00:18:54,520
to cause a problem here, you know, or

474
00:18:54,520 --> 00:18:56,880
any any variety of other things that a

475
00:18:56,880 --> 00:18:59,280
homeowner might do on a small scale?

476
00:18:59,280 --> 00:19:03,040
They put a garden in or, you know,

477
00:19:03,040 --> 00:19:05,800
lots of different things.

478
00:19:05,800 --> 00:19:08,000
I'm concerned about what

479
00:19:08,000 --> 00:19:10,520
uh in addition to that, um I'm concerned

480
00:19:10,520 --> 00:19:12,480
about what uh

481
00:19:12,480 --> 00:19:16,080
constitutes a planned development. And

482
00:19:16,080 --> 00:19:18,600
you know, how do we define or how is

483
00:19:18,600 --> 00:19:20,080
that defined? I guess it's covered by

484
00:19:20,080 --> 00:19:22,400
state law. So, we need to we need more

485
00:19:22,400 --> 00:19:24,520
information on that. Is it just Anasazi

486
00:19:24,520 --> 00:19:26,520
or are there other, as you mentioned,

487
00:19:26,520 --> 00:19:27,679
you know, everything pretty much at one

488
00:19:27,679 --> 00:19:30,040
time was some some kind of a split off

489
00:19:30,040 --> 00:19:32,159
of a development, so I'd like to get

490
00:19:32,159 --> 00:19:34,320
that question answered before we

491
00:19:34,320 --> 00:19:37,000
kind of go too far down this road.

492
00:19:37,000 --> 00:19:37,800
Um

493
00:19:37,800 --> 00:19:39,240
The other thing that came up in this

494
00:19:39,240 --> 00:19:43,080
meeting was the agricultural issue. Um

495
00:19:43,080 --> 00:19:45,400
And we have one

496
00:19:45,400 --> 00:19:46,679
uh

497
00:19:46,679 --> 00:19:47,679
property [clears throat] in the town

498
00:19:47,679 --> 00:19:50,080
that's zoned agricultural.

499
00:19:50,080 --> 00:19:52,400
Um the trees ranch, everything else is

500
00:19:52,400 --> 00:19:55,240
residential or something else. And so,

501
00:19:55,240 --> 00:19:56,840
um,

502
00:19:56,840 --> 00:20:01,120
but our our code allows agricultural

503
00:20:01,120 --> 00:20:04,640
uh, not business, but uh, activities on

504
00:20:04,640 --> 00:20:06,720
residential land. So, does that does

505
00:20:06,720 --> 00:20:08,000
that mean

506
00:20:08,000 --> 00:20:10,560
they are agriculture or they because

507
00:20:10,560 --> 00:20:13,720
it's agricultural activity, it's

508
00:20:13,720 --> 00:20:16,880
excerpted, you know, or or or off the

509
00:20:16,880 --> 00:20:18,480
state's concern? You know, how do we

510
00:20:18,480 --> 00:20:20,440
deal with that? So, I think we need more

511
00:20:20,440 --> 00:20:23,000
information on that before we could

512
00:20:23,000 --> 00:20:24,080
before I

513
00:20:24,080 --> 00:20:25,600
want to make a decision on some of these

514
00:20:25,600 --> 00:20:26,600
things.

515
00:20:26,600 --> 00:20:28,139
Yeah, I think, um,

516
00:20:28,139 --> 00:20:28,320
>> [clears throat]

517
00:20:28,320 --> 00:20:31,280
>> I'd ask, well, maybe I'll step up one

518
00:20:31,280 --> 00:20:33,600
higher and that is

519
00:20:33,600 --> 00:20:36,000
do we think it's a good idea? Well,

520
00:20:36,000 --> 00:20:36,120
let's

521
00:20:36,120 --> 00:20:38,800
>> Let's do this at all.

522
00:20:38,800 --> 00:20:40,560
Um, and maybe we should discuss that,

523
00:20:40,560 --> 00:20:43,240
but but I do agree that I think we need

524
00:20:43,240 --> 00:20:46,240
to understand where it's going to apply

525
00:20:46,240 --> 00:20:48,560
and where it's not going to apply. And

526
00:20:48,560 --> 00:20:50,040
I think we've already discussed some

527
00:20:50,040 --> 00:20:52,560
areas where it doesn't seem right that

528
00:20:52,560 --> 00:20:54,920
we should be applying it at small scales

529
00:20:54,920 --> 00:20:56,120
anyway.

530
00:20:56,120 --> 00:20:58,920
I mean, you know, one of our main goals

531
00:20:58,920 --> 00:21:01,960
from last year was the protection of the

532
00:21:01,960 --> 00:21:05,320
Virgin River riparian zone. And so, this

533
00:21:05,320 --> 00:21:07,800
kind of moves us in that direction.

534
00:21:07,800 --> 00:21:09,800
And so, I think overall, to me it seems

535
00:21:09,800 --> 00:21:13,440
like it's a good idea to for us to

536
00:21:13,440 --> 00:21:15,600
implement this, you know, carefully to

537
00:21:15,600 --> 00:21:17,200
control

538
00:21:17,200 --> 00:21:22,230
uh, the runoff into the Virgin River

539
00:21:22,240 --> 00:21:24,600
in the dry washes that we have.

540
00:21:24,600 --> 00:21:27,280
I mean, I guess to to me

541
00:21:27,280 --> 00:21:30,000
part of my concern in that regard, Tom,

542
00:21:30,000 --> 00:21:33,240
is what type of runoff is going into the

543
00:21:33,240 --> 00:21:35,880
Virgin River because, um, it used to be

544
00:21:35,880 --> 00:21:36,914
when you rode the shuttle buses,

545
00:21:36,914 --> 00:21:38,040
[clears throat] I don't think they're

546
00:21:38,040 --> 00:21:41,600
doing it so much anymore, but you got to listen to the little presentation

547
00:21:41,600 --> 00:21:46,350
that talks about how much

548
00:21:46,360 --> 00:21:48,200
is being how much dirt is being washed

549
00:21:48,200 --> 00:21:50,440
down the Virgin River and it was in the

550
00:21:50,440 --> 00:21:52,720
2 million tons range or something of

551
00:21:52,720 --> 00:21:53,960
that nature.

552
00:21:53,960 --> 00:21:59,320
Um, I suspect that the water or the the, uh,

553
00:21:59,320 --> 00:22:01,920
if you want to call sediment effluent

554
00:22:01,920 --> 00:22:04,760
going in the river from the park,

555
00:22:04,760 --> 00:22:05,640
uh,

556
00:22:05,640 --> 00:22:07,280
you know, we pale in comparison to that.

557
00:22:07,280 --> 00:22:09,040
I mean, your little 1-acre parcel is not

558
00:22:09,040 --> 00:22:11,640
going to have anywhere near close to

559
00:22:11,640 --> 00:22:12,640
you know,

560
00:22:12,640 --> 00:22:16,440
even a million tons or even a ton of,

561
00:22:16,440 --> 00:22:18,200
uh, sediment that'll go into the river.

562
00:22:18,200 --> 00:22:20,480
So, not to say that we should just allow

563
00:22:20,480 --> 00:22:23,040
willy-nilly anything, but I'd like to,

564
00:22:23,040 --> 00:22:24,360
you know, let's be reasonable about it,

565
00:22:24,360 --> 00:22:25,960
too. So,

566
00:22:25,960 --> 00:22:27,640
I mean, to me that's that's natural

567
00:22:27,640 --> 00:22:29,480
sediment that comes down.

568
00:22:29,480 --> 00:22:31,320
It's water that

569
00:22:31,320 --> 00:22:33,440
at the upper bounds of Springdale, you

570
00:22:33,440 --> 00:22:36,080
have a a typical sediment load that

571
00:22:36,080 --> 00:22:38,160
comes through every year, but

572
00:22:38,160 --> 00:22:40,800
what we, to me, should be concerned

573
00:22:40,800 --> 00:22:43,000
about is what we're putting in this into

574
00:22:43,000 --> 00:22:44,400
the river

575
00:22:44,400 --> 00:22:47,320
within Springdale bounds because that

576
00:22:47,320 --> 00:22:49,480
sediment or, uh, runoff would be

577
00:22:49,480 --> 00:22:51,840
different than what comes down.

578
00:22:51,840 --> 00:22:54,040
That earth could have oil, you know,

579
00:22:54,040 --> 00:22:56,440
carbon, you know, petroleum products and

580
00:22:56,440 --> 00:22:59,120
other, um, plastics and things in it

581
00:22:59,120 --> 00:23:02,000
that that's is not the normal natural

582
00:23:02,000 --> 00:23:04,280
composition of the river. Well, I I I

583
00:23:04,280 --> 00:23:06,120
guess to some extent I disagree with

584
00:23:06,120 --> 00:23:07,800
that because if I'm disturbing the soil

585
00:23:07,800 --> 00:23:09,560
on my property, if I'm washing my

586
00:23:09,560 --> 00:23:10,920
driveway off into the river, then I

587
00:23:10,920 --> 00:23:12,679
agree with you. If I'm washing, you

588
00:23:12,679 --> 00:23:14,080
know, other

589
00:23:14,080 --> 00:23:15,480
things or the streets off into the

590
00:23:15,480 --> 00:23:17,040
river, I agree with you. But if I'm

591
00:23:17,040 --> 00:23:19,360
going to go out and dig a hole in my in

592
00:23:19,360 --> 00:23:21,920
my backyard to plant a garden, um,

593
00:23:21,920 --> 00:23:23,720
the dirt there is probably the same dirt

594
00:23:23,720 --> 00:23:24,840
that's

595
00:23:24,840 --> 00:23:26,600
uh, in other places being washed into

596
00:23:26,600 --> 00:23:28,400
the river that you're calling sediment.

597
00:23:28,400 --> 00:23:30,600
And I would suggest, not that I want

598
00:23:30,600 --> 00:23:32,120
that dirt to go into the river because

599
00:23:32,120 --> 00:23:34,160
I'd rather keep it on my property, but

600
00:23:34,160 --> 00:23:36,280
if a little bit of it washes down

601
00:23:36,280 --> 00:23:39,600
the roadway into the river, it's it's

602
00:23:39,600 --> 00:23:40,920
I guess not the end of the world in my

603
00:23:40,920 --> 00:23:42,400
mind. So,

604
00:23:42,400 --> 00:23:45,600
um, To me, I think, uh, garden exclusion

605
00:23:45,600 --> 00:23:46,720
would be

606
00:23:46,720 --> 00:23:48,960
something that we should consider.

607
00:23:48,960 --> 00:23:51,400
Um, but what what I'm concerned with is

608
00:23:51,400 --> 00:23:54,200
construction uses,

609
00:23:54,200 --> 00:23:55,760
uh, that, you know, they bulldoze the

610
00:23:55,760 --> 00:23:58,080
land and then it sits fallow for

611
00:23:58,080 --> 00:24:01,430
whatever period of time.

612
00:24:01,440 --> 00:24:03,400
And then a a storm comes through and

613
00:24:03,400 --> 00:24:05,880
that that, uh, sediment washes down into

614
00:24:05,880 --> 00:24:09,870
the washes or into the river.

615
00:24:09,880 --> 00:24:11,360
Is that Is that

616
00:24:11,360 --> 00:24:13,760
because you expect the quantity to be

617
00:24:13,760 --> 00:24:15,560
much larger or because it's a different

618
00:24:15,560 --> 00:24:17,880
kind of dirt sediment? I expect the the

619
00:24:17,880 --> 00:24:19,760
runoff from within Springdale to have a

620
00:24:19,760 --> 00:24:22,560
different composition of what comes down

621
00:24:22,560 --> 00:24:26,990
to Springdale from within the canyon.

622
00:24:27,000 --> 00:24:29,120
I mean, what I'm hearing are all reasons

623
00:24:29,120 --> 00:24:31,800
why it's a good idea to put this

624
00:24:31,800 --> 00:24:35,200
permitting requirement in place.

625
00:24:35,200 --> 00:24:36,520
And then it's figuring out all the

626
00:24:36,520 --> 00:24:39,480
details that you're talking about.

627
00:24:39,480 --> 00:24:41,440
Um,

628
00:24:41,440 --> 00:24:46,150
as as it as it moves forward.

629
00:24:46,160 --> 00:24:47,280
Cuz it sounds like there's a lot of

630
00:24:47,280 --> 00:24:49,240
things to consider. I would think that

631
00:24:49,240 --> 00:24:51,920
there would be some correlation between

632
00:24:51,920 --> 00:24:55,440
amount of land disturbance and

633
00:24:55,440 --> 00:24:57,320
storm water runoff.

634
00:24:57,320 --> 00:24:59,240
And so,

635
00:24:59,240 --> 00:25:01,600
Yeah, this this is about uh, soil

636
00:25:01,600 --> 00:25:04,400
disturbance and and resulting pollution

637
00:25:04,400 --> 00:25:06,720
from the soil disturbance, not not storm

638
00:25:06,720 --> 00:25:08,440
water runoff necessarily, I think.

639
00:25:08,440 --> 00:25:11,590
>> Right.

640
00:25:11,600 --> 00:25:12,760
So, the amount of land that I could

641
00:25:12,760 --> 00:25:15,920
disturb on a 1-acre parcel

642
00:25:15,920 --> 00:25:17,400
um,

643
00:25:17,400 --> 00:25:19,200
relatively minor. Maybe we set the you

644
00:25:19,200 --> 00:25:20,400
maybe we set a different threshold.

645
00:25:20,400 --> 00:25:21,640
Maybe it's a quarter acre. Maybe it's a

646
00:25:21,640 --> 00:25:23,280
tenth of an acre. Maybe it's 800 ft,

647
00:25:23,280 --> 00:25:25,560
whatever it is, but, um, you know,

648
00:25:25,560 --> 00:25:26,760
again,

649
00:25:26,760 --> 00:25:28,400
um,

650
00:25:28,400 --> 00:25:33,110
when we try you

651
00:25:33,120 --> 00:25:35,040
water can move a lot of dirt very

652
00:25:35,040 --> 00:25:37,320
quickly. And so,

653
00:25:37,320 --> 00:25:39,520
I you know, I would

654
00:25:39,520 --> 00:25:42,230
um,

655
00:25:42,240 --> 00:25:44,560
suggest that, you know, yes, it's

656
00:25:44,560 --> 00:25:46,480
possible to have a lot of dirt move off

657
00:25:46,480 --> 00:25:49,000
of my 1-acre parcel if I had a 1-acre

658
00:25:49,000 --> 00:25:51,040
parcel. Um,

659
00:25:51,040 --> 00:25:54,080
but the property owner is going to be pretty

660
00:25:54,080 --> 00:25:56,240
interested in making sure

661
00:25:56,240 --> 00:25:58,880
that not much of that escapes because

662
00:25:58,880 --> 00:26:00,000
otherwise he's not going to have much

663
00:26:00,000 --> 00:26:01,360
land left.

664
00:26:01,360 --> 00:26:02,960
So, um,

665
00:26:02,960 --> 00:26:04,679
there's other there's other reasons why

666
00:26:04,679 --> 00:26:07,080
that that's being prevented or or

667
00:26:07,080 --> 00:26:09,160
mitigated. Um,

668
00:26:09,160 --> 00:26:10,720
I don't know. I just

669
00:26:10,720 --> 00:26:12,000
I'm I'm I'm trying to figure out if

670
00:26:12,000 --> 00:26:14,720
we're trying to manage something,

671
00:26:14,720 --> 00:26:17,800
you know, what's the the, um,

672
00:26:17,800 --> 00:26:20,080
the gain? You know, what's the

673
00:26:20,080 --> 00:26:22,480
So, I I feel like

674
00:26:22,480 --> 00:26:24,400
it goes back to sort of my my thoughts

675
00:26:24,400 --> 00:26:26,000
about scale,

676
00:26:26,000 --> 00:26:28,440
um, in that

677
00:26:28,440 --> 00:26:30,120
if a development

678
00:26:30,120 --> 00:26:33,440
across, let's just say multiple acres,

679
00:26:33,440 --> 00:26:36,360
creates huge mounds of dirt. Yeah. And

680
00:26:36,360 --> 00:26:39,640
then a big storm comes and now a hundred

681
00:26:39,640 --> 00:26:41,640
times or more

682
00:26:41,640 --> 00:26:43,960
amount of dirt comes off that property

683
00:26:43,960 --> 00:26:46,280
than normally would,

684
00:26:46,280 --> 00:26:48,200
seems like something we should be

685
00:26:48,200 --> 00:26:50,360
considering regulating.

686
00:26:50,360 --> 00:26:52,160
On the other hand,

687
00:26:52,160 --> 00:26:55,120
if you dig a garden and

688
00:26:55,120 --> 00:26:57,520
you know, a cu- a couple cubic feet of

689
00:26:57,520 --> 00:26:59,400
dirt goes off your property,

690
00:26:59,400 --> 00:27:00,880
>> Right.

691
00:27:00,880 --> 00:27:02,920
that's a kind of scale that we

692
00:27:02,920 --> 00:27:04,240
do.

693
00:27:04,240 --> 00:27:05,600
But, you know, and and when I start to

694
00:27:05,600 --> 00:27:07,000
look at some of the requirements of

695
00:27:07,000 --> 00:27:08,960
this, you know, where we've got to have

696
00:27:08,960 --> 00:27:10,080
uh,

697
00:27:10,080 --> 00:27:11,720
silt fences and

698
00:27:11,720 --> 00:27:14,240
um, wash out wash out areas maybe

699
00:27:14,240 --> 00:27:15,520
something we need to but, you know,

700
00:27:15,520 --> 00:27:17,160
gravel pits and that sort of thing, you

701
00:27:17,160 --> 00:27:19,600
know, to what you know, to to to what

702
00:27:19,600 --> 00:27:21,280
expense does the homeowner have to go to

703
00:27:21,280 --> 00:27:22,920
put a a little

704
00:27:22,920 --> 00:27:24,400
garden in? I mean, you know, how big is

705
00:27:24,400 --> 00:27:26,400
a gravel pit? What's is it what's it

706
00:27:26,400 --> 00:27:28,600
expected to do? And why is it always

707
00:27:28,600 --> 00:27:30,600
required, you know, kind of thing? Yeah,

708
00:27:30,600 --> 00:27:31,960
I I agree. I think there's a lot of

709
00:27:31,960 --> 00:27:33,760
modifications

710
00:27:33,760 --> 00:27:36,160
that we would want to consider. Yeah.

711
00:27:36,160 --> 00:27:38,960
To to to cover those things.

712
00:27:38,960 --> 00:27:41,669
Um,

713
00:27:41,679 --> 00:27:44,520
but thinking about the large scale

714
00:27:44,520 --> 00:27:46,280
potential large scale operations, I

715
00:27:46,280 --> 00:27:50,000
think it's valuable to do this.

716
00:27:50,000 --> 00:27:52,000
To go to continue to discuss this and

717
00:27:52,000 --> 00:27:54,320
maybe come up with something

718
00:27:54,320 --> 00:27:56,360
for larger scale operations because

719
00:27:56,360 --> 00:27:58,000
there is a potential

720
00:27:58,000 --> 00:28:01,200
for significant runoff,

721
00:28:01,200 --> 00:28:04,720
um, if it's not managed and if the state

722
00:28:04,720 --> 00:28:07,000
doesn't happen to notice or doesn't

723
00:28:07,000 --> 00:28:09,480
follow up, I can see some value in our

724
00:28:09,480 --> 00:28:11,400
ability to follow up.

725
00:28:11,400 --> 00:28:12,679
Um,

726
00:28:12,679 --> 00:28:15,440
so, my personal idea is that yes, we we

727
00:28:15,440 --> 00:28:18,120
should continue looking at this.

728
00:28:18,120 --> 00:28:20,840
And that we should definitely consider

729
00:28:20,840 --> 00:28:23,159
what kinds of projects and what sizes of

730
00:28:23,159 --> 00:28:24,480
projects

731
00:28:24,480 --> 00:28:27,280
uh, you don't need to get a permit for.

732
00:28:27,280 --> 00:28:29,000
Um, I agree.

733
00:28:29,000 --> 00:28:30,120
Do do you feel

734
00:28:30,120 --> 00:28:31,400
we should continue or do you feel maybe

735
00:28:31,400 --> 00:28:34,080
we should not do it at all? No, I'm I

736
00:28:34,080 --> 00:28:36,600
think No, I'm I'm willing to continue. I

737
00:28:36,600 --> 00:28:38,520
think, um, there's more information that

738
00:28:38,520 --> 00:28:39,840
I think we need to know before we get

739
00:28:39,840 --> 00:28:42,240
too far, you know, and

740
00:28:42,240 --> 00:28:43,760
Can I talked about already, I think are

741
00:28:43,760 --> 00:28:45,280
in there, too. Yeah, I think we should

742
00:28:45,280 --> 00:28:47,200
several requests of the staff as we go

743
00:28:47,200 --> 00:28:48,000
>> Yeah.

744
00:28:48,000 --> 00:28:50,159
And then the other question is,

745
00:28:50,159 --> 00:28:52,400
you know, I mean, how big is

746
00:28:52,400 --> 00:28:54,560
big, you know, because I you know, I I

747
00:28:54,560 --> 00:28:58,760
may have different views than Tom does or somebody else does, um,

748
00:28:58,760 --> 00:29:00,480
in terms of, you know, is because I

749
00:29:00,480 --> 00:29:01,960
mean, obviously the state's looked at it

750
00:29:01,960 --> 00:29:03,760
and said 1 acre, maybe that's the right

751
00:29:03,760 --> 00:29:05,679
number. Um,

752
00:29:05,679 --> 00:29:07,120
but, uh,

753
00:29:07,120 --> 00:29:09,080
if in fact, you know, all planned

754
00:29:09,080 --> 00:29:11,320
developments, you know, have to comply

755
00:29:11,320 --> 00:29:12,440
with this

756
00:29:12,440 --> 00:29:14,840
and, you know, on Anasazi, I think, you

757
00:29:14,840 --> 00:29:16,200
know, there's a lot of lots in there

758
00:29:16,200 --> 00:29:17,679
that are well, they have to comply

759
00:29:17,679 --> 00:29:19,679
anyway, so it doesn't really matter. So,

760
00:29:19,679 --> 00:29:21,919
what are the constraints that they have

761
00:29:21,919 --> 00:29:23,840
to comply with? I'm I'm

762
00:29:23,840 --> 00:29:25,960
guessing that maybe not everybody who's

763
00:29:25,960 --> 00:29:29,080
putting a garden or a, uh,

764
00:29:29,080 --> 00:29:30,360
you know, fire pit or something like

765
00:29:30,360 --> 00:29:34,360
that in in Anasazi's doing this now. So,

766
00:29:34,360 --> 00:29:36,000
you know,

767
00:29:36,000 --> 00:29:37,800
um,

768
00:29:37,800 --> 00:29:39,800
yeah, I think

769
00:29:39,800 --> 00:29:42,560
some things we might ask the staff, um,

770
00:29:42,560 --> 00:29:44,440
one would be

771
00:29:44,440 --> 00:29:46,680
can can they figure out or at least get

772
00:29:46,680 --> 00:29:48,680
a good guess as to

773
00:29:48,680 --> 00:29:51,040
how many properties

774
00:29:51,040 --> 00:29:53,000
fit this category of a planned

775
00:29:53,000 --> 00:29:55,360
development. Kind of what percentage of

776
00:29:55,360 --> 00:29:57,560
Springdale properties

777
00:29:57,560 --> 00:29:58,880
fit that category.

778
00:29:58,880 --> 00:30:01,080
>> Yeah. That therefore

779
00:30:01,080 --> 00:30:03,920
the state's one-acre limit doesn't

780
00:30:03,920 --> 00:30:05,760
matter because the original development

781
00:30:05,760 --> 00:30:07,120
was bigger.

782
00:30:07,120 --> 00:30:08,000
Um

783
00:30:08,000 --> 00:30:09,080
I don't know. I mean, we've mentioned

784
00:30:09,080 --> 00:30:10,800
Anasazi, but you know, I'm in a

785
00:30:10,800 --> 00:30:12,480
development that

786
00:30:12,480 --> 00:30:14,600
was subdivided in the early '90s, I

787
00:30:14,600 --> 00:30:16,560
think. And you're in a development that

788
00:30:16,560 --> 00:30:18,080
was subdivided, right? I mean, I think

789
00:30:18,080 --> 00:30:19,880
all of us at one level

790
00:30:19,880 --> 00:30:22,080
you know, your area was subdivided some

791
00:30:22,080 --> 00:30:23,920
years ago, too.

792
00:30:23,920 --> 00:30:25,920
Um and so

793
00:30:25,920 --> 00:30:28,280
potentially a large number of properties

794
00:30:28,280 --> 00:30:30,960
already fit that category.

795
00:30:30,960 --> 00:30:32,040
Um

796
00:30:32,040 --> 00:30:34,280
so that would be a question like can we

797
00:30:34,280 --> 00:30:37,440
get a an idea of how many properties fit

798
00:30:37,440 --> 00:30:39,280
in that category?

799
00:30:39,280 --> 00:30:40,640
Um

800
00:30:40,640 --> 00:30:43,680
on size, um our our guest here mentioned

801
00:30:43,680 --> 00:30:47,240
5,000 square feet. Um

802
00:30:47,240 --> 00:30:49,520
I don't know. I think I don't think we

803
00:30:49,520 --> 00:30:51,280
should decide that tonight, but maybe

804
00:30:51,280 --> 00:30:52,960
get some feel.

805
00:30:52,960 --> 00:30:55,080
I had another thought is rather than by

806
00:30:55,080 --> 00:30:57,360
square footage, would we

807
00:30:57,360 --> 00:31:01,360
determine it by yards of dirt that is

808
00:31:01,360 --> 00:31:03,600
going to be moved?

809
00:31:03,600 --> 00:31:04,760
Um

810
00:31:04,760 --> 00:31:06,160
it seems like a potentially more

811
00:31:06,160 --> 00:31:08,600
reasonable measure to me.

812
00:31:08,600 --> 00:31:09,960
Um That's what I was saying, the

813
00:31:09,960 --> 00:31:11,880
correlation between the amount of dirt

814
00:31:11,880 --> 00:31:14,160
being moved and

815
00:31:14,160 --> 00:31:16,360
risk factors.

816
00:31:16,360 --> 00:31:17,880
Right. I think what we're looking at is

817
00:31:17,880 --> 00:31:19,280
like how much dirt

818
00:31:19,280 --> 00:31:21,280
>> Yeah. you know, is is

819
00:31:21,280 --> 00:31:22,840
And and and

820
00:31:22,840 --> 00:31:24,720
to point out I I've come across multiple

821
00:31:24,720 --> 00:31:26,920
times where I've seen

822
00:31:26,920 --> 00:31:29,120
you know, runoff mitigation not working

823
00:31:29,120 --> 00:31:30,240
very well.

824
00:31:30,240 --> 00:31:32,120
But there was there's a property in my

825
00:31:32,120 --> 00:31:33,800
neighborhood that was almost finished

826
00:31:33,800 --> 00:31:36,160
now, but several times large amounts of

827
00:31:36,160 --> 00:31:39,280
dirt flowed across the road.

828
00:31:39,280 --> 00:31:40,560
Um

829
00:31:40,560 --> 00:31:45,040
you know, so I think there is value in being able to manage something like

830
00:31:45,040 --> 00:31:47,720
that for something say as big as

831
00:31:47,720 --> 00:31:49,360
you know, a home construction. Now,

832
00:31:49,360 --> 00:31:51,200
5,000 square feet, a lot of people can

833
00:31:51,200 --> 00:31:53,880
get their home and excavate

834
00:31:53,880 --> 00:31:56,160
less than 5,000 square feet, so Well,

835
00:31:56,160 --> 00:31:58,240
the the town's I mean, State Route 9 has

836
00:31:58,240 --> 00:32:00,800
got a lot of, you know, non-paved

837
00:32:00,800 --> 00:32:03,600
you know, street-side parking uh

838
00:32:03,600 --> 00:32:06,760
that, you know, in the rainy season, you

839
00:32:06,760 --> 00:32:08,600
know, or whatever, you know, people park

840
00:32:08,600 --> 00:32:10,320
there and then there's mud dragged into

841
00:32:10,320 --> 00:32:12,240
the street. And so, how are we going to

842
00:32:12,240 --> 00:32:13,920
how do we regulate that? You can't do it

843
00:32:13,920 --> 00:32:16,600
with by this process, but you know,

844
00:32:16,600 --> 00:32:18,320
if we're concerned about

845
00:32:18,320 --> 00:32:19,920
you know, dirt going into the street and

846
00:32:19,920 --> 00:32:22,480
washing down somewhere else, then

847
00:32:22,480 --> 00:32:23,920
why aren't we thinking about that, too?

848
00:32:23,920 --> 00:32:25,400
So.

849
00:32:25,400 --> 00:32:27,640
Anyway. Yeah. So

850
00:32:27,640 --> 00:32:30,160
again, I I I feel like

851
00:32:30,160 --> 00:32:32,240
some sort of size limit. And and

852
00:32:32,240 --> 00:32:34,880
potentially we end up at one acre

853
00:32:34,880 --> 00:32:36,679
and just do the first half of the

854
00:32:36,679 --> 00:32:38,200
ordinance, which is anything bigger than

855
00:32:38,200 --> 00:32:39,360
an acre.

856
00:32:39,360 --> 00:32:41,360
Um

857
00:32:41,360 --> 00:32:42,920
but I think it's worth discussing. I

858
00:32:42,920 --> 00:32:45,520
think sub-one acre

859
00:32:45,520 --> 00:32:47,160
you can do a lot of

860
00:32:47,160 --> 00:32:49,200
damage

861
00:32:49,200 --> 00:32:51,640
excavating less than one acre if if

862
00:32:51,640 --> 00:32:53,640
we're not watching at all.

863
00:32:53,640 --> 00:32:55,040
And that's what I'm wondering is why the

864
00:32:55,040 --> 00:32:56,920
state There must be a reason they

865
00:32:56,920 --> 00:32:59,080
recommend an acre. So, it'd be

866
00:32:59,080 --> 00:33:01,240
interesting to know

867
00:33:01,240 --> 00:33:03,280
why and perhaps that is the reason

868
00:33:03,280 --> 00:33:06,000
because an acre does is the amount of

869
00:33:06,000 --> 00:33:07,320
space

870
00:33:07,320 --> 00:33:09,960
that gives you you know, a lot of room

871
00:33:09,960 --> 00:33:12,840
to do a lot of digging up.

872
00:33:12,840 --> 00:33:16,400
And maybe if it's much smaller than that

873
00:33:16,400 --> 00:33:17,640
Yeah, that could be a

874
00:33:17,640 --> 00:33:20,320
>> Yeah. staff if if they can find out if

875
00:33:20,320 --> 00:33:22,040
there was

876
00:33:22,040 --> 00:33:25,400
a reasoning behind choosing one acre.

877
00:33:25,400 --> 00:33:29,830
Or was it just sort of a convenience?

878
00:33:29,840 --> 00:33:31,360
Yeah, I mean, you

879
00:33:31,360 --> 00:33:32,520
just a

880
00:33:32,520 --> 00:33:34,640
side thought comes to mind. If I'm if I

881
00:33:34,640 --> 00:33:37,360
built a house and I want to plant a lawn

882
00:33:37,360 --> 00:33:39,400
um you know, I can easily cover 5,000

883
00:33:39,400 --> 00:33:41,200
square feet with grass

884
00:33:41,200 --> 00:33:44,360
uh on an acre lot. Um

885
00:33:44,360 --> 00:33:46,360
do I have to have a permit to to plant a

886
00:33:46,360 --> 00:33:49,310
lawn now?

887
00:33:49,320 --> 00:33:51,040
Right. If if you're going to excavate

888
00:33:51,040 --> 00:33:52,440
>> I'm going to till the soil, but is that

889
00:33:52,440 --> 00:33:53,520
excavating it or

890
00:33:53,520 --> 00:33:54,760
>> excavating? Yeah.

891
00:33:54,760 --> 00:33:56,480
>> Yeah. That's kind of why I went back to

892
00:33:56,480 --> 00:33:57,960
well, how much more how much dirt are

893
00:33:57,960 --> 00:34:00,640
you moving? Right. 5 yards, 10 yards

894
00:34:00,640 --> 00:34:02,313
>> far are you moving it, you know?

895
00:34:02,313 --> 00:34:02,440
>> [laughter]

896
00:34:02,440 --> 00:34:03,440
>> Yeah.

897
00:34:03,440 --> 00:34:05,320
Good point, too. It's like how long will

898
00:34:05,320 --> 00:34:06,960
it be exposed? If you're going to till

899
00:34:06,960 --> 00:34:09,359
it up and then put sod down the next

900
00:34:09,359 --> 00:34:12,159
day, then that's not a big exposure

901
00:34:12,159 --> 00:34:14,000
in terms of runoff. But if you till it

902
00:34:14,000 --> 00:34:15,640
up and leave it

903
00:34:15,640 --> 00:34:18,320
the 5,000 square feet over 6 months,

904
00:34:18,320 --> 00:34:20,520
that's a much better much bigger

905
00:34:20,520 --> 00:34:21,879
exposure.

906
00:34:21,879 --> 00:34:23,480
Yeah.

907
00:34:23,480 --> 00:34:26,520
Right. Rainstorm and and running off.

908
00:34:26,520 --> 00:34:32,909
Um

909
00:34:32,919 --> 00:34:35,200
Okay. So

910
00:34:35,200 --> 00:34:36,919
it seems we've come to the conclusion

911
00:34:36,919 --> 00:34:38,960
we'll continue working on this.

912
00:34:38,960 --> 00:34:41,080
I think so. Um

913
00:34:41,080 --> 00:34:43,960
The the other uh So, you mentioned that

914
00:34:43,960 --> 00:34:45,600
we need more information

915
00:34:45,600 --> 00:34:48,080
on size, type, and age of the property

916
00:34:48,080 --> 00:34:49,840
in the planned developments in terms of

917
00:34:49,840 --> 00:34:52,240
what where it needs to be in compliance.

918
00:34:52,240 --> 00:34:52,919
Um

919
00:34:52,919 --> 00:34:55,120
agricultural uses, what you know, what's

920
00:34:55,120 --> 00:34:58,720
the definition of for that? And what's included in that category?

921
00:34:58,720 --> 00:35:01,240
Which other things are we looking for?

922
00:35:01,240 --> 00:35:06,430
Um

923
00:35:06,440 --> 00:35:11,160
So, yeah, what size of CM?

924
00:35:11,160 --> 00:35:12,640
Also

925
00:35:12,640 --> 00:35:15,160
there's specific mention of concrete. I

926
00:35:15,160 --> 00:35:17,320
think there's reasons for that. Yeah. We

927
00:35:17,320 --> 00:35:20,480
might also want to consider

928
00:35:20,480 --> 00:35:22,280
how much concrete work you're doing. If

929
00:35:22,280 --> 00:35:23,720
you're going to if you're going to dig a

930
00:35:23,720 --> 00:35:25,720
hole, put some concrete in and put a

931
00:35:25,720 --> 00:35:27,120
post in it

932
00:35:27,120 --> 00:35:28,760
I'm not sure you need one of these,

933
00:35:28,760 --> 00:35:30,520
right? On the other hand, if you're

934
00:35:30,520 --> 00:35:33,160
going to do several yards of concrete,

935
00:35:33,160 --> 00:35:34,800
then maybe

936
00:35:34,800 --> 00:35:36,200
you need to have a plan for what you're

937
00:35:36,200 --> 00:35:38,120
going to do with the leftovers.

938
00:35:38,120 --> 00:35:40,120
So, we might consider what's a good

939
00:35:40,120 --> 00:35:41,920
what's a reasonable amount of concrete

940
00:35:41,920 --> 00:35:44,359
that goes beyond I went to the store and

941
00:35:44,359 --> 00:35:47,600
picked up a couple of 60-lb

942
00:35:47,600 --> 00:35:49,520
Well, the same at the same

943
00:35:49,520 --> 00:35:51,600
time, you also need to worry about if

944
00:35:51,600 --> 00:35:53,320
I'm tiling the house

945
00:35:53,320 --> 00:35:57,400
um you know, the grout you know,

946
00:35:57,400 --> 00:35:59,320
the waste from the tile saw, the grout,

947
00:35:59,320 --> 00:36:00,359
you know, grouting and that sort of

948
00:36:00,359 --> 00:36:01,760
thing. Where's the washout for that? And

949
00:36:01,760 --> 00:36:03,760
how much you know, how much of that

950
00:36:03,760 --> 00:36:05,600
do you need to worry about? And how do

951
00:36:05,600 --> 00:36:08,280
you mitigate it? That sort of thing. So.

952
00:36:08,280 --> 00:36:11,950
I'd like more information about that.

953
00:36:11,960 --> 00:36:13,440
Well, on specifically what's in the

954
00:36:13,440 --> 00:36:15,840
state requirements.

955
00:36:15,840 --> 00:36:19,120
Cuz if the idea is to mirror

956
00:36:19,120 --> 00:36:20,880
the state

957
00:36:20,880 --> 00:36:24,520
permitting process and requirements

958
00:36:24,520 --> 00:36:27,120
it'd be good to know that

959
00:36:27,120 --> 00:36:29,800
information to base

960
00:36:29,800 --> 00:36:31,840
>> Yeah, and maybe the some of those some

961
00:36:31,840 --> 00:36:34,960
like, for example, the grouting and that sort of thing,

962
00:36:34,960 --> 00:36:37,480
that may be is covered by current uh

963
00:36:37,480 --> 00:36:39,640
town standards in the in the permitting

964
00:36:39,640 --> 00:36:44,710
process building process. I'm not sure.

965
00:36:44,720 --> 00:36:46,120
You asked me what other things, you

966
00:36:46,120 --> 00:36:47,760
know, came to my mind. There's just

967
00:36:47,760 --> 00:36:49,000
another interesting thing that that

968
00:36:49,000 --> 00:36:51,880
calls for covered trash receptacles. If

969
00:36:51,880 --> 00:36:53,120
you look in there.

970
00:36:53,120 --> 00:36:55,000
And I've looked around and

971
00:36:55,000 --> 00:36:56,800
many of our construction sites, the

972
00:36:56,800 --> 00:37:00,960
trash receptacles are not covered today.

973
00:37:00,960 --> 00:37:04,200
Um I just drove by one on the way in.

974
00:37:04,200 --> 00:37:05,720
Had one of you know, the rolls up on the

975
00:37:05,720 --> 00:37:07,440
back of a truck and they got the cable,

976
00:37:07,440 --> 00:37:08,520
you know, and you roll it back down.

977
00:37:08,520 --> 00:37:10,680
Those don't have a cover on them until

978
00:37:10,680 --> 00:37:12,640
they put it on the truck and they

979
00:37:12,640 --> 00:37:14,560
flip that little net over it.

980
00:37:14,560 --> 00:37:16,200
So

981
00:37:16,200 --> 00:37:18,040
is it that they're just is that do we

982
00:37:18,040 --> 00:37:20,640
already recover require covered trash

983
00:37:20,640 --> 00:37:23,600
receptacle or is that a change? And does

984
00:37:23,600 --> 00:37:26,800
that impact what kinds or sizes of trash

985
00:37:26,800 --> 00:37:28,200
receptacles

986
00:37:28,200 --> 00:37:30,080
developers can use?

987
00:37:30,080 --> 00:37:32,240
Um

988
00:37:32,240 --> 00:37:34,280
And and I I kind of get in the back of

989
00:37:34,280 --> 00:37:36,600
my mind the idea, yeah, you want want to

990
00:37:36,600 --> 00:37:38,960
be covered for wind and whatever.

991
00:37:38,960 --> 00:37:41,560
Um but I think I'd like to understand

992
00:37:41,560 --> 00:37:43,720
what's our requirement now.

993
00:37:43,720 --> 00:37:45,359
And what does that mean?

994
00:37:45,359 --> 00:37:47,480
If we say it's got to be covered

995
00:37:47,480 --> 00:37:48,840
then does [clears throat] that

996
00:37:48,840 --> 00:37:51,040
negate a whole

997
00:37:51,040 --> 00:37:53,320
range of trash receptacles

998
00:37:53,320 --> 00:37:55,400
of sizes that some construction

999
00:37:55,400 --> 00:38:01,150
companies would need?

1000
00:38:01,160 --> 00:38:03,280
Um Yeah, the I mean, I guess the other

1001
00:38:03,280 --> 00:38:05,680
thing is um

1002
00:38:05,680 --> 00:38:08,840
the need for Maybe it's dependent upon

1003
00:38:08,840 --> 00:38:10,520
you know, who's doing the work? Is it a

1004
00:38:10,520 --> 00:38:12,240
homeowner doing the work or is he hiring

1005
00:38:12,240 --> 00:38:15,560
a contractor to do the work? Um

1006
00:38:15,560 --> 00:38:18,520
because if for example, if they if we're

1007
00:38:18,520 --> 00:38:21,000
requiring them to have um

1008
00:38:21,000 --> 00:38:21,960
you know,

1009
00:38:21,960 --> 00:38:23,440
restroom facilities, you know,

1010
00:38:23,440 --> 00:38:25,040
porta-potties out on the property or

1011
00:38:25,040 --> 00:38:27,440
whatever um and they have to be staked

1012
00:38:27,440 --> 00:38:29,040
and they have to be, you know,

1013
00:38:29,040 --> 00:38:31,280
that sort of thing. Um if I'm hiring a

1014
00:38:31,280 --> 00:38:32,720
contractor, maybe I don't want to let

1015
00:38:32,720 --> 00:38:34,800
them use my bathroom, but if I'm doing

1016
00:38:34,800 --> 00:38:36,800
the work, I'm going to use my bathroom.

1017
00:38:36,800 --> 00:38:38,200
I'm not going to I'm you know, it'd be

1018
00:38:38,200 --> 00:38:39,960
silly for me to buy a or rent a

1019
00:38:39,960 --> 00:38:40,280
porta-potty

1020
00:38:40,280 --> 00:38:41,880
>> to have to put in a porta-potty so that

1021
00:38:41,880 --> 00:38:43,720
I can go use the bathroom in the house,

1022
00:38:43,720 --> 00:38:45,160
you know, that's kind of stupid, so.

1023
00:38:45,160 --> 00:38:46,480
Yeah, I think there's some adjustments

1024
00:38:46,480 --> 00:38:48,160
we would make on specific requirements

1025
00:38:48,160 --> 00:38:49,440
like that.

1026
00:38:49,440 --> 00:38:50,840
Um

1027
00:38:50,840 --> 00:38:52,760
not sure we should say, well, all home

1028
00:38:52,760 --> 00:38:55,200
projects because there are people who

1029
00:38:55,200 --> 00:38:57,880
have front loaders and Oh, yeah.

1030
00:38:57,880 --> 00:38:59,000
>> personnel, so we should

1031
00:38:59,000 --> 00:38:59,520
>> Yeah.

1032
00:38:59,520 --> 00:39:01,560
not just eliminate the idea, I'm doing

1033
00:39:01,560 --> 00:39:03,640
it myself if I happen to have my own

1034
00:39:03,640 --> 00:39:05,600
construction equipment. But but you may

1035
00:39:05,600 --> 00:39:07,040
be able to eliminate some of the

1036
00:39:07,040 --> 00:39:08,480
requirements, not all of them, I'm sure.

1037
00:39:08,480 --> 00:39:10,240
>> Right. Right. For example, if if you

1038
00:39:10,240 --> 00:39:12,720
don't need a porta-potty, then we don't

1039
00:39:12,720 --> 00:39:13,120
have to do it.

1040
00:39:13,120 --> 00:39:14,680
>> Right.

1041
00:39:14,680 --> 00:39:17,000
If all the equipment you're going to use

1042
00:39:17,000 --> 00:39:19,200
on site and never goes off site, maybe

1043
00:39:19,200 --> 00:39:21,960
we don't need a gravel pad

1044
00:39:21,960 --> 00:39:23,680
for equipment that's not going to be

1045
00:39:23,680 --> 00:39:26,640
leaving or coming or going.

1046
00:39:26,640 --> 00:39:29,280
But those are kind of I think

1047
00:39:29,280 --> 00:39:30,480
adjustments we might want to think

1048
00:39:30,480 --> 00:39:31,760
about.

1049
00:39:31,760 --> 00:39:41,190
Um

1050
00:39:41,200 --> 00:39:43,990
Anything else?

1051
00:39:44,000 --> 00:39:45,640
Melissa, saying you got to be kind of

1052
00:39:45,640 --> 00:39:46,847
quiet.

1053
00:39:46,847 --> 00:39:47,502
>> [cough]

1054
00:39:47,502 --> 00:39:49,480
[clears throat]

1055
00:39:49,480 --> 00:39:52,320
>> Do you have any questions or any

1056
00:39:52,320 --> 00:39:54,640
clarification from us?

1057
00:39:54,640 --> 00:39:57,280
So maybe I can just run through what

1058
00:39:57,280 --> 00:39:59,200
I've been taking notes of your

1059
00:39:59,200 --> 00:40:01,840
discussion.

1060
00:40:01,840 --> 00:40:06,440
So I think overall there's a desire to

1061
00:40:06,440 --> 00:40:08,800
move forward with with this in some kind

1062
00:40:08,800 --> 00:40:12,150
of format.

1063
00:40:12,160 --> 00:40:15,320
We need to determine what a reasonable

1064
00:40:15,320 --> 00:40:18,120
threshold would be for this to make sure

1065
00:40:18,120 --> 00:40:19,680
that we're not

1066
00:40:19,680 --> 00:40:22,840
creating unreasonable, you know, burdens

1067
00:40:22,840 --> 00:40:27,790
on on small projects.

1068
00:40:27,800 --> 00:40:32,000
We need to look at the plan development

1069
00:40:32,000 --> 00:40:34,440
side of things, whether that's

1070
00:40:34,440 --> 00:40:37,000
something a threshold that we want to

1071
00:40:37,000 --> 00:40:38,800
use in this instance and what that

1072
00:40:38,800 --> 00:40:41,950
means.

1073
00:40:41,960 --> 00:40:45,920
And we want to exclude agricultural

1074
00:40:45,920 --> 00:40:50,670
type projects.

1075
00:40:50,680 --> 00:40:53,160
And yeah, we need to think about again

1076
00:40:53,160 --> 00:40:54,840
going back to the thresholds whether

1077
00:40:54,840 --> 00:40:57,600
it's the size of the excavation or the

1078
00:40:57,600 --> 00:40:59,520
size of the property or that kind of

1079
00:40:59,520 --> 00:41:02,200
thing. We need to look at that.

1080
00:41:02,200 --> 00:41:04,040
We need to explore whether there was

1081
00:41:04,040 --> 00:41:05,960
some rationale

1082
00:41:05,960 --> 00:41:11,230
by the state in choosing one acre.

1083
00:41:11,240 --> 00:41:13,320
Or whether it was just

1084
00:41:13,320 --> 00:41:15,080
we have to choose something so one acre

1085
00:41:15,080 --> 00:41:17,360
sounds good. I suspect that might have

1086
00:41:17,360 --> 00:41:21,560
been it, but we we can investigate that.

1087
00:41:21,560 --> 00:41:25,800
And then whether there are

1088
00:41:25,800 --> 00:41:28,720
Yeah, differences for home

1089
00:41:28,720 --> 00:41:31,240
homeowner projects

1090
00:41:31,240 --> 00:41:32,720
and

1091
00:41:32,720 --> 00:41:34,640
you know, where there's an external

1092
00:41:34,640 --> 00:41:37,080
contractor working on it.

1093
00:41:37,080 --> 00:41:39,280
So yeah, I think those those are the the

1094
00:41:39,280 --> 00:41:41,560
points that I took down.

1095
00:41:41,560 --> 00:41:44,440
I don't know whether Robert, you have

1096
00:41:44,440 --> 00:41:48,000
any questions or any clarifications

1097
00:41:48,000 --> 00:41:55,270
that you need before we move forward.

1098
00:41:55,280 --> 00:41:59,080
So some of the questions was

1099
00:41:59,080 --> 00:42:00,120
the

1100
00:42:00,120 --> 00:42:02,840
soil disturbance, how much is enough to

1101
00:42:02,840 --> 00:42:05,280
warrant having it done.

1102
00:42:05,280 --> 00:42:08,720
On the state side, any disturbance of an

1103
00:42:08,720 --> 00:42:10,720
acre is considered but that means if

1104
00:42:10,720 --> 00:42:12,240
they're

1105
00:42:12,240 --> 00:42:14,920
going to be pulling weeds out and stuff,

1106
00:42:14,920 --> 00:42:17,080
that counts as a disturbance for an

1107
00:42:17,080 --> 00:42:18,160
acre.

1108
00:42:18,160 --> 00:42:21,520
If if the disturbance spans an acre.

1109
00:42:21,520 --> 00:42:23,240
But if I own an acre and I do it in 10

1110
00:42:23,240 --> 00:42:25,640
feet over here, it's not. It it's part

1111
00:42:25,640 --> 00:42:28,040
of the acre.

1112
00:42:28,040 --> 00:42:29,320
Yeah, so I think what they're

1113
00:42:29,320 --> 00:42:30,599
>> that makes any sense. Well,

1114
00:42:30,599 --> 00:42:31,320
[clears throat] what they're trying to

1115
00:42:31,320 --> 00:42:33,440
capture is if you let's say you have a

1116
00:42:33,440 --> 00:42:36,160
bunch of weeds on your acre lot and

1117
00:42:36,160 --> 00:42:37,840
you're going to grab the weeds, you now

1118
00:42:37,840 --> 00:42:41,440
created a space for runoff of water when

1119
00:42:41,440 --> 00:42:43,400
it rains because you don't have the

1120
00:42:43,400 --> 00:42:45,000
vegetation or the weeds or whatever

1121
00:42:45,000 --> 00:42:48,640
they're now holding that in that spot.

1122
00:42:48,640 --> 00:42:50,760
And so when you mass grab something,

1123
00:42:50,760 --> 00:42:53,000
you're creating other issues and I think

1124
00:42:53,000 --> 00:42:54,400
that's why they put it in there the way

1125
00:42:54,400 --> 00:42:56,760
they did. So if I have a 3/4 acre

1126
00:42:56,760 --> 00:42:59,320
property and I disturb

1127
00:42:59,320 --> 00:43:02,000
2/3 of it, I don't have to do it. Well,

1128
00:43:02,000 --> 00:43:04,560
under the state thing under an acre, it

1129
00:43:04,560 --> 00:43:06,560
that would be the other half of this if

1130
00:43:06,560 --> 00:43:09,400
we did that. A couple other things. They

1131
00:43:09,400 --> 00:43:12,240
talk about toilet staking, that kind of

1132
00:43:12,240 --> 00:43:14,520
thing. That's so if a porta pot blows

1133
00:43:14,520 --> 00:43:16,440
over, the chemicals aren't going to the

1134
00:43:16,440 --> 00:43:19,280
ground and then to the river.

1135
00:43:19,280 --> 00:43:21,000
The

1136
00:43:21,000 --> 00:43:23,440
concrete for the washout, they don't

1137
00:43:23,440 --> 00:43:25,360
care about hard concrete. It's when the

1138
00:43:25,360 --> 00:43:27,280
truck is washing out after they pour the

1139
00:43:27,280 --> 00:43:29,600
concrete. A lot of the times now they

1140
00:43:29,600 --> 00:43:31,560
just find a dirt spot and they dump it

1141
00:43:31,560 --> 00:43:33,560
on the ground and they drive away. That

1142
00:43:33,560 --> 00:43:35,000
that's where they have the washouts and

1143
00:43:35,000 --> 00:43:38,080
that kind of stuff. I did check with a

1144
00:43:38,080 --> 00:43:39,440
couple sites.

1145
00:43:39,440 --> 00:43:41,680
The one acre threshold for stormwater

1146
00:43:41,680 --> 00:43:44,720
pollution prevention plan

1147
00:43:44,720 --> 00:43:46,800
is because the federal regulations

1148
00:43:46,800 --> 00:43:49,240
designed it to balance environmental

1149
00:43:49,240 --> 00:43:51,160
protection with administrative

1150
00:43:51,160 --> 00:43:52,560
feasibility.

1151
00:43:52,560 --> 00:43:55,160
That's why they chose an acre.

1152
00:43:55,160 --> 00:43:57,200
Basically the idea was

1153
00:43:57,200 --> 00:43:59,280
under an acre becomes an administrative

1154
00:43:59,280 --> 00:44:01,645
problem because it's probably

1155
00:44:01,645 --> 00:44:02,000
>> [clears throat]

1156
00:44:02,000 --> 00:44:03,920
>> Well, and then that's where it becomes a

1157
00:44:03,920 --> 00:44:05,600
problem for us because like I said, we

1158
00:44:05,600 --> 00:44:07,440
don't have any teeth and so you see

1159
00:44:07,440 --> 00:44:09,720
these little things happen and there's

1160
00:44:09,720 --> 00:44:11,720
nothing you can do about it but politely

1161
00:44:11,720 --> 00:44:14,840
ask, "Hey, can you not do this?"

1162
00:44:14,840 --> 00:44:16,800
And part of the

1163
00:44:16,800 --> 00:44:19,960
best management practices that was in

1164
00:44:19,960 --> 00:44:21,080
our plan

1165
00:44:21,080 --> 00:44:22,520
we're not saying you have to have a

1166
00:44:22,520 --> 00:44:25,560
porta pot if you do this. It's saying

1167
00:44:25,560 --> 00:44:27,760
make the best management practices fit

1168
00:44:27,760 --> 00:44:29,960
the scenario. It's not saying you have

1169
00:44:29,960 --> 00:44:32,600
to do all these things. Just like if it

1170
00:44:32,600 --> 00:44:34,359
doesn't warrant a track out pad because

1171
00:44:34,359 --> 00:44:35,600
you're not leaving your property, then

1172
00:44:35,600 --> 00:44:37,280
you don't need the gravel for the track

1173
00:44:37,280 --> 00:44:39,240
out pad. It would be on a case by case

1174
00:44:39,240 --> 00:44:41,560
basis That that was your intent in

1175
00:44:41,560 --> 00:44:43,680
writing it. Yes. Yep. Yep. So I think

1176
00:44:43,680 --> 00:44:45,160
yeah, we should

1177
00:44:45,160 --> 00:44:47,440
add a little clarity to as it go wording

1178
00:44:47,440 --> 00:44:49,280
so that people who read it will

1179
00:44:49,280 --> 00:44:51,400
understand. And then on the agricultural

1180
00:44:51,400 --> 00:44:55,160
part, I looked up a thing from USU.

1181
00:44:55,160 --> 00:44:55,880
Um

1182
00:44:55,880 --> 00:44:57,080
they were saying that with the

1183
00:44:57,080 --> 00:44:59,200
agricultural part

1184
00:44:59,200 --> 00:45:01,640
if you're just doing normal agricultural

1185
00:45:01,640 --> 00:45:02,840
stuff

1186
00:45:02,840 --> 00:45:05,200
that is included, but if you decide that

1187
00:45:05,200 --> 00:45:06,480
you're putting a building up or

1188
00:45:06,480 --> 00:45:08,440
something like that, then that does fall

1189
00:45:08,440 --> 00:45:10,600
under the SWIP program. And then they

1190
00:45:10,600 --> 00:45:12,320
also have other guidelines that we don't

1191
00:45:12,320 --> 00:45:13,840
need to go into, but because of the

1192
00:45:13,840 --> 00:45:15,320
chemicals and that stuff, they actually

1193
00:45:15,320 --> 00:45:17,000
have other criteria that they have to

1194
00:45:17,000 --> 00:45:19,120
meet besides the SWIP and that kind of

1195
00:45:19,120 --> 00:45:20,600
thing.

1196
00:45:20,600 --> 00:45:22,480
Okay, so if they're doing normal

1197
00:45:22,480 --> 00:45:25,000
agricultural work, it's not a it doesn't

1198
00:45:25,000 --> 00:45:27,040
it's not covered under this particular

1199
00:45:27,040 --> 00:45:29,000
issue.

1200
00:45:29,000 --> 00:45:30,720
Their use of fertilizers or whatever is

1201
00:45:30,720 --> 00:45:34,200
covered. But if they say you have you're

1202
00:45:34,200 --> 00:45:36,000
developing your agricultural field and

1203
00:45:36,000 --> 00:45:38,200
you decide to put up a hay barn

1204
00:45:38,200 --> 00:45:40,800
it would count because it's within that

1205
00:45:40,800 --> 00:45:43,680
acre whatever it is, then you would If

1206
00:45:43,680 --> 00:45:44,760
you're going to do a building or you're

1207
00:45:44,760 --> 00:45:46,280
going to do some sort of construction.

1208
00:45:46,280 --> 00:45:49,560
Yep. And and part of the SWIP too,

1209
00:45:49,560 --> 00:45:52,080
the the trash receptacles, you get on

1210
00:45:52,080 --> 00:45:54,840
construction sites, there's construction

1211
00:45:54,840 --> 00:45:57,000
debris everywhere.

1212
00:45:57,000 --> 00:45:59,760
There's construction trash from people,

1213
00:45:59,760 --> 00:46:01,000
you know, having a drink of water and

1214
00:46:01,000 --> 00:46:02,960
throwing their trash on the ground. That

1215
00:46:02,960 --> 00:46:05,120
was part of that with the receptacles. I

1216
00:46:05,120 --> 00:46:06,960
don't know that there's a size limit. I

1217
00:46:06,960 --> 00:46:08,760
just know that there's in the best

1218
00:46:08,760 --> 00:46:11,040
management practices you have to have it

1219
00:46:11,040 --> 00:46:15,520
cleaned and tidy at all times. So.

1220
00:46:15,520 --> 00:46:16,960
I think it's good. It's just whether

1221
00:46:16,960 --> 00:46:17,960
they're covered.

1222
00:46:17,960 --> 00:46:19,920
Um

1223
00:46:19,920 --> 00:46:21,359
So it's a brought brought up an

1224
00:46:21,359 --> 00:46:23,400
interesting thought

1225
00:46:23,400 --> 00:46:25,600
when you talked about weeds. Cuz the

1226
00:46:25,600 --> 00:46:29,520
Springdale just went through a um

1227
00:46:29,520 --> 00:46:33,240
a with a tamarisk and the Russian olive

1228
00:46:33,240 --> 00:46:35,840
and we removed so much stuff.

1229
00:46:35,840 --> 00:46:37,920
So in theory

1230
00:46:37,920 --> 00:46:39,640
we should have Did we Did we submit an

1231
00:46:39,640 --> 00:46:42,000
SWPPP for

1232
00:46:42,000 --> 00:46:46,200
our removal of tamarisk and Russian

1233
00:46:46,200 --> 00:46:49,430
olive?

1234
00:46:49,440 --> 00:46:51,292
Plead the fifth on that.

1235
00:46:51,292 --> 00:46:52,240
>> [laughter]

1236
00:46:52,240 --> 00:46:54,160
>> Yeah, we we did not because I we were

1237
00:46:54,160 --> 00:46:56,200
not disturbing the soil. We're we're

1238
00:46:56,200 --> 00:46:58,800
removing the vegetation, but not

1239
00:46:58,800 --> 00:47:02,240
disturbing the soil. We're cutting the the vegetation off at the

1240
00:47:02,240 --> 00:47:04,600
stump at the root

1241
00:47:04,600 --> 00:47:06,600
and then treating it, but not digging it

1242
00:47:06,600 --> 00:47:13,920
up. Had Had we chosen to do like take a track hoe in and dig up all the tamarisk and and remove them

1243
00:47:13,920 --> 00:47:14,920
that way, then

1244
00:47:14,920 --> 00:47:15,920
perhaps we would have been subject to

1245
00:47:15,920 --> 00:47:17,280
this, but

1246
00:47:17,280 --> 00:47:18,600
because we're not disturbing the soil,

1247
00:47:18,600 --> 00:47:20,720
we're just removing the vegetation, it's

1248
00:47:20,720 --> 00:47:21,960
So so

1249
00:47:21,960 --> 00:47:23,680
a homeowner could cut down the weeds,

1250
00:47:23,680 --> 00:47:26,359
they just can't pull them out. So I

1251
00:47:26,359 --> 00:47:27,840
think the the example that Robert was

1252
00:47:27,840 --> 00:47:29,080
referring to was like somebody disking

1253
00:47:29,080 --> 00:47:30,359
the lot where where you're actually

1254
00:47:30,359 --> 00:47:32,040
going through and and grubbing or

1255
00:47:32,040 --> 00:47:35,960
disking and you're tearing up the soil.

1256
00:47:35,960 --> 00:47:37,520
And not necessarily mowing it down. If

1257
00:47:37,520 --> 00:47:38,880
you want to mow your your weeds, that's

1258
00:47:38,880 --> 00:47:40,560
fine. That that doesn't trigger this at

1259
00:47:40,560 --> 00:47:44,030
all.

1260
00:47:44,040 --> 00:47:48,470
Right, right.

1261
00:47:48,480 --> 00:47:50,400
Even the soil disturbance that they talk

1262
00:47:50,400 --> 00:47:54,160
about is if you have soil that can blow

1263
00:47:54,160 --> 00:47:56,800
away, that is considered part of that

1264
00:47:56,800 --> 00:47:58,480
nuisance that

1265
00:47:58,480 --> 00:48:00,000
your soil needs to stay on your

1266
00:48:00,000 --> 00:48:02,720
property. You You have to

1267
00:48:02,720 --> 00:48:04,160
have it to where it's sprayed down to

1268
00:48:04,160 --> 00:48:06,280
where the dust can't leave. I it it goes

1269
00:48:06,280 --> 00:48:08,800
into the details of that that it has to

1270
00:48:08,800 --> 00:48:11,359
stay on that property.

1271
00:48:11,359 --> 00:48:12,840
So

1272
00:48:12,840 --> 00:48:14,600
if I understood what you said a minute

1273
00:48:14,600 --> 00:48:15,640
ago,

1274
00:48:15,640 --> 00:48:16,400
um

1275
00:48:16,400 --> 00:48:18,080
if it's agricultural land, you can go

1276
00:48:18,080 --> 00:48:20,040
disk the property up and not have a

1277
00:48:20,040 --> 00:48:22,359
problem. Don't have

1278
00:48:22,359 --> 00:48:28,510
From what I read, yep.

1279
00:48:28,520 --> 00:48:30,950
Yeah.

1280
00:48:30,960 --> 00:48:32,160
Um

1281
00:48:32,160 --> 00:48:33,560
Okay, well I think we have some things

1282
00:48:33,560 --> 00:48:35,040
we'd like the staff to do to give us

1283
00:48:35,040 --> 00:48:37,600
some information.

1284
00:48:37,600 --> 00:48:38,840
I don't know that I have anything new

1285
00:48:38,840 --> 00:48:41,120
without getting some of this information

1286
00:48:41,120 --> 00:48:43,160
back at this point. I think that's true.

1287
00:48:43,160 --> 00:48:46,630
I agree.

1288
00:48:46,640 --> 00:48:49,000
Before we before we move beyond this,

1289
00:48:49,000 --> 00:48:51,560
it's sort of a separate thing. In my

1290
00:48:51,560 --> 00:48:53,800
research for this, I came across

1291
00:48:53,800 --> 00:48:56,000
a question and it maybe maybe I'm just

1292
00:48:56,000 --> 00:48:59,600
reading this the wrong way, but uh

1293
00:48:59,600 --> 00:49:02,040
Title 7-1-2

1294
00:49:02,040 --> 00:49:04,400
talks about obstruction in the streets

1295
00:49:04,400 --> 00:49:06,120
and it says it's unlawful for any person

1296
00:49:06,120 --> 00:49:07,680
owning, occupying or having control of

1297
00:49:07,680 --> 00:49:09,480
any premises to place or permit to be

1298
00:49:09,480 --> 00:49:12,080
placed upon or in the sidewalk, parking

1299
00:49:12,080 --> 00:49:13,560
area, gutter or on the half of the

1300
00:49:13,560 --> 00:49:15,160
street next to such premises any

1301
00:49:15,160 --> 00:49:17,520
material, vehicle or equipment that

1302
00:49:17,520 --> 00:49:19,280
would obstruct the public way without a

1303
00:49:19,280 --> 00:49:21,120
permit.

1304
00:49:21,120 --> 00:49:23,840
So if I read that literally

1305
00:49:23,840 --> 00:49:26,120
do I need Does that mean I need

1306
00:49:26,120 --> 00:49:27,280
uh

1307
00:49:27,280 --> 00:49:28,840
if I'm on a street where parking is

1308
00:49:28,840 --> 00:49:29,920
allowed

1309
00:49:29,920 --> 00:49:31,640
do I mean Does that mean I can't park in

1310
00:49:31,640 --> 00:49:34,080
front of my own property?

1311
00:49:34,080 --> 00:49:35,680
Cuz I'd need a permit.

1312
00:49:35,680 --> 00:49:37,160
But I can park in front of my neighbors,

1313
00:49:37,160 --> 00:49:42,390
and I wouldn't need a permit.

1314
00:49:42,400 --> 00:49:44,160
No, I I don't think that's the intent of

1315
00:49:44,160 --> 00:49:46,600
this. I It's not the intent, but

1316
00:49:46,600 --> 00:49:48,040
is that what it means? It means that

1317
00:49:48,040 --> 00:49:52,270
what it says.

1318
00:49:52,280 --> 00:50:00,750
Cuz I think that's what it says.

1319
00:50:00,760 --> 00:50:03,240
I I I think a a very literal reading of

1320
00:50:03,240 --> 00:50:05,480
that would say yes. Yeah. I I I think

1321
00:50:05,480 --> 00:50:08,040
what this is is is getting at is

1322
00:50:08,040 --> 00:50:11,160
um you can't use the the street as a

1323
00:50:11,160 --> 00:50:13,040
stockpile area for a construction site.

1324
00:50:13,040 --> 00:50:15,320
So, you can't put your pallets of tile

1325
00:50:15,320 --> 00:50:21,560
or your roof trusses or or or park your cherry picker out in the street.

1326
00:50:21,560 --> 00:50:22,920
Right.

1327
00:50:22,920 --> 00:50:25,120
Yes, a very a very strict reading of

1328
00:50:25,120 --> 00:50:26,920
this would would say, well, you you

1329
00:50:26,920 --> 00:50:29,400
can't park a vehicle there. And so,

1330
00:50:29,400 --> 00:50:32,120
maybe that's on our list of things to to

1331
00:50:32,120 --> 00:50:33,240
clean up at some point.

1332
00:50:33,240 --> 00:50:35,000
>> Yeah.

1333
00:50:35,000 --> 00:50:36,520
Like I said, not super important, but

1334
00:50:36,520 --> 00:50:40,550
you know, it's interesting.

1335
00:50:40,560 --> 00:50:44,120
Okay, are we ready to move on?

1336
00:50:44,120 --> 00:50:44,800
Yep.

1337
00:50:44,800 --> 00:50:47,920
The second action item is discussion on

1338
00:50:47,920 --> 00:50:50,520
the Planning Commission's priorities for

1339
00:50:50,520 --> 00:50:56,910
2026. Staff contact is Tom Dansie.

1340
00:50:56,920 --> 00:50:57,360
» [clears throat]

1341
00:50:57,360 --> 00:50:59,160
>> Thank you. [snorts] Um we typically at

1342
00:50:59,160 --> 00:51:01,400
the beginning of each beginning of each

1343
00:51:01,400 --> 00:51:04,120
year talk about the Planning

1344
00:51:04,120 --> 00:51:05,480
Commission's

1345
00:51:05,480 --> 00:51:07,800
um work meeting priorities,

1346
00:51:07,800 --> 00:51:08,960
what you have accomplished in the

1347
00:51:08,960 --> 00:51:11,160
previous year, and and what what you um

1348
00:51:11,160 --> 00:51:13,120
could be accomplishing in the next year.

1349
00:51:13,120 --> 00:51:14,840
Um we actually did this a a several

1350
00:51:14,840 --> 00:51:16,720
times last year.

1351
00:51:16,720 --> 00:51:19,040
And and so, we we didn't quite do it

1352
00:51:19,040 --> 00:51:21,480
right right on schedule on in January

1353
00:51:21,480 --> 00:51:23,360
this year, but now now seems to be a

1354
00:51:23,360 --> 00:51:24,680
good time to do it.

1355
00:51:24,680 --> 00:51:26,760
Um so, what you have in your in your

1356
00:51:26,760 --> 00:51:30,200
packets is is um the previous list that

1357
00:51:30,200 --> 00:51:32,400
the commission worked on, which has been

1358
00:51:32,400 --> 00:51:34,640
updated. You've you've done a fantastic

1359
00:51:34,640 --> 00:51:36,800
job of accomplishing many of the

1360
00:51:36,800 --> 00:51:39,520
priorities that you listed or that you

1361
00:51:39,520 --> 00:51:41,960
identified in your in your the last time

1362
00:51:41,960 --> 00:51:43,320
we did this.

1363
00:51:43,320 --> 00:51:47,640
Um and and now we're we're pretty much

1364
00:51:47,640 --> 00:51:48,760
um

1365
00:51:48,760 --> 00:51:52,920
well, we we have one or two left in our top priority category, but other

1366
00:51:52,920 --> 00:51:53,960
than that, we've worked through all of

1367
00:51:53,960 --> 00:51:55,870
your top priorities. So,

1368
00:51:55,870 --> 00:51:56,040
>> [clears throat]

1369
00:51:56,040 --> 00:51:58,320
>> big kudos and congratulations.

1370
00:51:58,320 --> 00:52:01,040
Um and now we'd like

1371
00:52:01,040 --> 00:52:02,800
talk about what your priorities are for

1372
00:52:02,800 --> 00:52:05,920
the rest of 2026 work meetings.

1373
00:52:05,920 --> 00:52:09,360
Um I will note that um

1374
00:52:09,360 --> 00:52:12,080
in the packet, there there may have been

1375
00:52:12,080 --> 00:52:14,680
a an in inadvertent

1376
00:52:14,680 --> 00:52:16,360
uh

1377
00:52:16,360 --> 00:52:19,640
mistake in the uh

1378
00:52:19,640 --> 00:52:21,480
priority three items. One of those

1379
00:52:21,480 --> 00:52:23,920
priority three items

1380
00:52:23,920 --> 00:52:27,870
is um

1381
00:52:27,880 --> 00:52:30,960
uh street performer regulations.

1382
00:52:30,960 --> 00:52:32,520
And um

1383
00:52:32,520 --> 00:52:35,560
talking with with Paul earlier,

1384
00:52:35,560 --> 00:52:36,600
I

1385
00:52:36,600 --> 00:52:39,040
you may have already um

1386
00:52:39,040 --> 00:52:41,440
re-prioritized that from the priority

1387
00:52:41,440 --> 00:52:45,080
two priority three to priority two.

1388
00:52:45,080 --> 00:52:48,560
So, that I apologize for for that uh

1389
00:52:48,560 --> 00:52:49,960
that oversight. But other than that,

1390
00:52:49,960 --> 00:52:54,280
this this should be an an an accurate um

1391
00:52:54,280 --> 00:52:56,680
d- um summary of where you are now with

1392
00:52:56,680 --> 00:52:58,880
your different priorities. So, we just

1393
00:52:58,880 --> 00:53:01,800
appreciate your discussion on

1394
00:53:01,800 --> 00:53:05,160
where you want to spend what you items

1395
00:53:05,160 --> 00:53:06,640
are the most important for you to be

1396
00:53:06,640 --> 00:53:08,360
spending your time on in the coming

1397
00:53:08,360 --> 00:53:10,240
months. We can go through them one by

1398
00:53:10,240 --> 00:53:11,880
one and and talk about them individually

1399
00:53:11,880 --> 00:53:14,840
if you'd like. Um if you have some ideas

1400
00:53:14,840 --> 00:53:16,040
and questions as commissioners that

1401
00:53:16,040 --> 00:53:17,600
you'd like to propose, we can do that.

1402
00:53:17,600 --> 00:53:18,960
So, we we can manage that discussion

1403
00:53:18,960 --> 00:53:38,990
however you'd like.

1404
00:53:39,000 --> 00:53:42,640
One of the things I that um

1405
00:53:42,640 --> 00:53:43,880
first came to mind, there's at least I

1406
00:53:43,880 --> 00:53:46,360
think there was one priority two item

1407
00:53:46,360 --> 00:53:48,720
that um

1408
00:53:48,720 --> 00:53:51,040
that we're already working on.

1409
00:53:51,040 --> 00:53:53,640
Nearly complete.

1410
00:53:53,640 --> 00:53:54,920
Seems anything that we're already

1411
00:53:54,920 --> 00:53:56,800
working on could probably go to priority

1412
00:53:56,800 --> 00:53:59,359
one. Yeah.

1413
00:53:59,359 --> 00:54:02,270
Um

1414
00:54:02,280 --> 00:54:03,280
And

1415
00:54:03,280 --> 00:54:05,040
the other things that were in priority

1416
00:54:05,040 --> 00:54:06,800
one

1417
00:54:06,800 --> 00:54:13,430
to me seem like they should stay there.

1418
00:54:13,440 --> 00:54:17,560
Um so, that's the WUI interface, the

1419
00:54:17,560 --> 00:54:19,880
parking ordinance,

1420
00:54:19,880 --> 00:54:24,240
um the Virgin River Management Plan.

1421
00:54:24,240 --> 00:54:26,400
We kind of had delayed that since I was

1422
00:54:26,400 --> 00:54:28,480
out with my injury, so

1423
00:54:28,480 --> 00:54:31,640
I'm willing to restart that

1424
00:54:31,640 --> 00:54:33,520
as priority one.

1425
00:54:33,520 --> 00:54:36,270
Um

1426
00:54:36,280 --> 00:54:38,359
I think in conjunction with that, we

1427
00:54:38,359 --> 00:54:40,359
could add [clears throat] in

1428
00:54:40,359 --> 00:54:43,080
the stormwater management

1429
00:54:43,080 --> 00:54:45,400
during construction project permit

1430
00:54:45,400 --> 00:54:47,440
discussion. That was my thought, if we

1431
00:54:47,440 --> 00:54:49,720
just wanted to do it, we should

1432
00:54:49,720 --> 00:54:51,359
Yeah, do it. Do it.

1433
00:54:51,359 --> 00:54:52,067
>> Yeah.

1434
00:54:52,067 --> 00:54:55,630
>> [laughter]

1435
00:54:55,640 --> 00:54:57,480
» So, that would make

1436
00:54:57,480 --> 00:55:01,359
five priority ones right there. The WUI,

1437
00:55:01,359 --> 00:55:02,880
the non-conforming commercial

1438
00:55:02,880 --> 00:55:05,960
properties, the stormwater management,

1439
00:55:05,960 --> 00:55:08,640
the river Virgin River Management, and

1440
00:55:08,640 --> 00:55:11,000
the parking revisions. That'd make five

1441
00:55:11,000 --> 00:55:13,120
priority ones that

1442
00:55:13,120 --> 00:55:16,720
for half a year for what the rest of the

1443
00:55:16,720 --> 00:55:19,880
good place to start, I think.

1444
00:55:19,880 --> 00:55:21,480
Can I make a a comment about the the

1445
00:55:21,480 --> 00:55:23,920
WUI?

1446
00:55:23,920 --> 00:55:26,560
So, I I I left that on there. I I don't

1447
00:55:26,560 --> 00:55:28,640
actually envision that this will

1448
00:55:28,640 --> 00:55:30,920
come back to the Planning Commission

1449
00:55:30,920 --> 00:55:32,920
um per se. You've already you've already

1450
00:55:32,920 --> 00:55:34,840
done a lot of work on that at the end of

1451
00:55:34,840 --> 00:55:36,840
last year and and made a recommendation

1452
00:55:36,840 --> 00:55:38,000
to the Town Council, and the Town

1453
00:55:38,000 --> 00:55:40,920
Council is ready to adopt. What I do

1454
00:55:40,920 --> 00:55:43,359
envision coming back to the Planning

1455
00:55:43,359 --> 00:55:46,120
Commission would be um

1456
00:55:46,120 --> 00:55:48,160
some of the associated

1457
00:55:48,160 --> 00:55:50,200
land use ord- ordinances that may be

1458
00:55:50,200 --> 00:55:52,480
impacted because of our adoption of the

1459
00:55:52,480 --> 00:55:55,680
WUI. So, things like our two-to-one

1460
00:55:55,680 --> 00:55:59,000
um native vegetation replacement ratio,

1461
00:55:59,000 --> 00:56:01,280
things like that. So, when we when we

1462
00:56:01,280 --> 00:56:05,840
talk about WUI, I think the town the the WUI itself is in the hands of the

1463
00:56:05,840 --> 00:56:07,800
Town Council right now.

1464
00:56:07,800 --> 00:56:08,320
You've done your work [clears throat] on

1465
00:56:08,320 --> 00:56:12,000
that. But there Okay.

1466
00:56:12,000 --> 00:56:13,400
could be

1467
00:56:13,400 --> 00:56:15,840
um an action item for the commission is

1468
00:56:15,840 --> 00:56:17,720
now that we've got the WUI in place,

1469
00:56:17,720 --> 00:56:19,040
we've been mandated by the state to do

1470
00:56:19,040 --> 00:56:20,240
that. The Town Council is going to going

1471
00:56:20,240 --> 00:56:22,359
to do that. What else do we need to

1472
00:56:22,359 --> 00:56:24,120
change at this point?

1473
00:56:24,120 --> 00:56:26,120
So, is that a I I guess my my question

1474
00:56:26,120 --> 00:56:27,640
is that a priority Does that remain

1475
00:56:27,640 --> 00:56:28,880
without understanding, does that remain

1476
00:56:28,880 --> 00:56:31,359
a priority one item? I think so in

1477
00:56:31,359 --> 00:56:34,480
identifying what they are.

1478
00:56:34,480 --> 00:56:35,760
Um

1479
00:56:35,760 --> 00:56:39,040
Well, let me ask a question. So,

1480
00:56:39,040 --> 00:56:41,359
if it's it's with the Town Council,

1481
00:56:41,359 --> 00:56:42,400
um

1482
00:56:42,400 --> 00:56:44,240
my first thought is maybe we should see

1483
00:56:44,240 --> 00:56:47,800
what the Town Council does

1484
00:56:47,800 --> 00:56:49,880
take on more action

1485
00:56:49,880 --> 00:56:53,280
so that we don't take on action that

1486
00:56:53,280 --> 00:56:55,200
turns out to not be needed because the

1487
00:56:55,200 --> 00:56:56,880
town because of whatever decisions the

1488
00:56:56,880 --> 00:56:59,160
Town Council makes. Do we know at this

1489
00:56:59,160 --> 00:57:03,110
point what their action is?

1490
00:57:03,120 --> 00:57:04,280
Yeah, I mean the

1491
00:57:04,280 --> 00:57:06,000
it's a it's a pretty foregone

1492
00:57:06,000 --> 00:57:07,880
conclusion. The state has mandated that

1493
00:57:07,880 --> 00:57:12,120
>> Right. adopt the the WUI code, and the state has

1494
00:57:12,120 --> 00:57:14,200
further mandated

1495
00:57:14,200 --> 00:57:16,160
where our WUI zone is going to be

1496
00:57:16,160 --> 00:57:18,200
located. So, we don't have a lot of

1497
00:57:18,200 --> 00:57:19,480
discretion

1498
00:57:19,480 --> 00:57:23,800
in in in that. So, I mean, technically, the Town Council

1499
00:57:23,800 --> 00:57:25,960
could say

1500
00:57:25,960 --> 00:57:27,000
"We're not going to do that, State of

1501
00:57:27,000 --> 00:57:28,720
Utah. We're going to do our own thing."

1502
00:57:28,720 --> 00:57:31,720
I don't foresee that happening. So, I I think it's a pretty foregone

1503
00:57:31,720 --> 00:57:33,359
conclusion that yeah, the the council is

1504
00:57:33,359 --> 00:57:35,560
going to be adopting the WUI code

1505
00:57:35,560 --> 00:57:39,750
probably in their April meeting.

1506
00:57:39,760 --> 00:57:42,120
I think it's worthwhile to identify what

1507
00:57:42,120 --> 00:57:43,480
the

1508
00:57:43,480 --> 00:57:45,280
ordinances are that

1509
00:57:45,280 --> 00:57:46,760
could

1510
00:57:46,760 --> 00:57:49,320
benefit changing, and then going through

1511
00:57:49,320 --> 00:57:50,760
each of those and deciding what the

1512
00:57:50,760 --> 00:57:53,680
changes are.

1513
00:57:53,680 --> 00:57:55,359
Yeah, if it's going to be that that

1514
00:57:55,359 --> 00:57:58,359
quick with with the Town Council,

1515
00:57:58,359 --> 00:58:00,840
and to me, this is something that

1516
00:58:00,840 --> 00:58:03,080
potentially has an impact for pretty

1517
00:58:03,080 --> 00:58:05,560
much every resident in town

1518
00:58:05,560 --> 00:58:08,280
in one way or another, so it's

1519
00:58:08,280 --> 00:58:10,840
maybe it's priority one as soon as the

1520
00:58:10,840 --> 00:58:13,840
Town Council votes hands up, which it

1521
00:58:13,840 --> 00:58:15,200
sounds like we kind of suspect they

1522
00:58:15,200 --> 00:58:16,520
will.

1523
00:58:16,520 --> 00:58:19,280
My only hesitation is that in the last

1524
00:58:19,280 --> 00:58:20,960
meeting that I went to, it seemed like

1525
00:58:20,960 --> 00:58:23,120
the the WUI

1526
00:58:23,120 --> 00:58:25,280
code was not etched in stone, that

1527
00:58:25,280 --> 00:58:27,840
things were changing a little bit from

1528
00:58:27,840 --> 00:58:30,720
what it had been before, so

1529
00:58:30,720 --> 00:58:32,600
I agree this should be a priority one,

1530
00:58:32,600 --> 00:58:38,280
but we should make sure that we're sure that the WUI code is

1531
00:58:38,280 --> 00:58:40,000
We know what it is. We know exactly what

1532
00:58:40,000 --> 00:58:42,520
it is, you know, and then we could get

1533
00:58:42,520 --> 00:58:45,359
right on, you know, the the ordinances

1534
00:58:45,359 --> 00:58:47,800
that need to be changed. It sounded like

1535
00:58:47,800 --> 00:58:49,920
it was going to There really was no

1536
00:58:49,920 --> 00:58:53,080
timeline to finalize what all of those

1537
00:58:53,080 --> 00:59:00,040
details are going to be. We had the same firefighter that presented at

1538
00:59:00,040 --> 00:59:01,600
the presentation to the town come to our

1539
00:59:01,600 --> 00:59:02,920
house,

1540
00:59:02,920 --> 00:59:04,840
and

1541
00:59:04,840 --> 00:59:07,880
he gave us really useful information on

1542
00:59:07,880 --> 00:59:09,680
just the different guidelines for the

1543
00:59:09,680 --> 00:59:11,720
defensible space,

1544
00:59:11,720 --> 00:59:12,560
which

1545
00:59:12,560 --> 00:59:15,600
I think whether it's a requirement or

1546
00:59:15,600 --> 00:59:18,240
information we're giving to

1547
00:59:18,240 --> 00:59:20,680
um people that are building new homes is

1548
00:59:20,680 --> 00:59:22,520
really important.

1549
00:59:22,520 --> 00:59:24,160
And

1550
00:59:24,160 --> 00:59:26,760
um

1551
00:59:26,760 --> 00:59:28,840
and I I guess it it would be lifting

1552
00:59:28,840 --> 00:59:31,480
some of the requirements we currently

1553
00:59:31,480 --> 00:59:33,320
have or, you know, revising them at

1554
00:59:33,320 --> 00:59:34,880
least.

1555
00:59:34,880 --> 00:59:36,920
Um

1556
00:59:36,920 --> 00:59:39,120
and then

1557
00:59:39,120 --> 00:59:41,280
and you know, besides that, it's just

1558
00:59:41,280 --> 00:59:44,800
it's it's bringing the topic to, you

1559
00:59:44,800 --> 00:59:46,680
know, new homeowners, builders,

1560
00:59:46,680 --> 00:59:49,920
whatever. Um

1561
00:59:49,920 --> 00:59:51,600
you know, they they definitely need to

1562
00:59:51,600 --> 00:59:53,960
know about it and what's coming down the

1563
00:59:53,960 --> 00:59:55,920
line or potentially coming down the line

1564
00:59:55,920 --> 00:59:58,360
and what we can do at this point that

1565
00:59:58,360 --> 01:00:05,910
does make sense.

1566
01:00:05,920 --> 01:00:08,240
So, I mean, it sounds like we're kind of

1567
01:00:08,240 --> 01:00:11,120
in agreement that it's priority one.

1568
01:00:11,120 --> 01:00:12,840
Um

1569
01:00:12,840 --> 01:00:14,840
and maybe

1570
01:00:14,840 --> 01:00:17,680
whether we start whether we work on it

1571
01:00:17,680 --> 01:00:19,920
in the April work meeting or the May

1572
01:00:19,920 --> 01:00:22,000
work meeting probably isn't

1573
01:00:22,000 --> 01:00:24,520
as a big of an issue, although

1574
01:00:24,520 --> 01:00:26,880
if to me, it would be nice to know that

1575
01:00:26,880 --> 01:00:28,520
the town council has said, "Okay, we're

1576
01:00:28,520 --> 01:00:31,440
going to adopt this ordinance." Based

1577
01:00:31,440 --> 01:00:33,800
upon what we saw last year, there's not

1578
01:00:33,800 --> 01:00:35,600
a lot of flexibility. The state says,

1579
01:00:35,600 --> 01:00:37,240
"You will adopt this ordinance." Put

1580
01:00:37,240 --> 01:00:39,880
your name here. Kind of thing.

1581
01:00:39,880 --> 01:00:42,080
So, you know, probably not going to be

1582
01:00:42,080 --> 01:00:43,840
any surprises there.

1583
01:00:43,840 --> 01:00:46,000
Um

1584
01:00:46,000 --> 01:00:49,680
just out of the five

1585
01:00:49,680 --> 01:00:52,560
I I might want to look at um

1586
01:00:52,560 --> 01:00:54,200
other ones maybe in the April work

1587
01:00:54,200 --> 01:00:55,560
meeting and

1588
01:00:55,560 --> 01:00:57,200
look at this in the May work meeting. I

1589
01:00:57,200 --> 01:00:58,840
don't know.

1590
01:00:58,840 --> 01:01:00,040
But, I agree. I don't think we should

1591
01:01:00,040 --> 01:01:01,720
put it off till like September or

1592
01:01:01,720 --> 01:01:02,080
something.

1593
01:01:02,080 --> 01:01:03,680
>> No, I think I think we should just call

1594
01:01:03,680 --> 01:01:06,400
it priority one wooey. Wait until

1595
01:01:06,400 --> 01:01:10,160
informed. Wait until informed.

1596
01:01:10,160 --> 01:01:11,960
Um

1597
01:01:11,960 --> 01:01:12,880
All right. Well, I think we're in

1598
01:01:12,880 --> 01:01:15,640
agreement that stays as priority one.

1599
01:01:15,640 --> 01:01:19,430
Um

1600
01:01:19,440 --> 01:01:22,800
and the other five I

1601
01:01:22,800 --> 01:01:24,760
nobody seem Everybody seems to feel

1602
01:01:24,760 --> 01:01:25,120
okay.

1603
01:01:25,120 --> 01:01:26,280
>> Yeah, there's Yeah, there's four, I

1604
01:01:26,280 --> 01:01:28,480
mean. Four.

1605
01:01:28,480 --> 01:01:32,800
Yeah. And so of those remaining four, um

1606
01:01:32,800 --> 01:01:35,720
Terry, you mentioned that you are are um

1607
01:01:35,720 --> 01:01:38,360
ready to to continue work on the Virgin

1608
01:01:38,360 --> 01:01:40,760
River Management Plan implementation. We

1609
01:01:40,760 --> 01:01:47,000
had kind of established a committee with you and and Kosh and staff. Are you

1610
01:01:47,000 --> 01:01:49,760
I'm ready to to uh go back to those

1611
01:01:49,760 --> 01:01:50,600
meetings again.

1612
01:01:50,600 --> 01:01:51,920
>> Perfect. So, that's one that won't

1613
01:01:51,920 --> 01:01:54,000
necessarily take a ton of time in work

1614
01:01:54,000 --> 01:01:55,920
meetings Right. because that committee

1615
01:01:55,920 --> 01:01:57,520
will be working on things and eventually

1616
01:01:57,520 --> 01:01:59,000
that committee will be bringing things

1617
01:01:59,000 --> 01:02:01,000
to the to the planning commission and

1618
01:02:01,000 --> 01:02:02,440
work meetings, but immediately there

1619
01:02:02,440 --> 01:02:05,720
won't be a lot of um work meeting agenda

1620
01:02:05,720 --> 01:02:07,680
or work meeting time associated with

1621
01:02:07,680 --> 01:02:09,000
that one.

1622
01:02:09,000 --> 01:02:11,120
Um the non-conforming properties in the

1623
01:02:11,120 --> 01:02:12,200
central commercial zone, you're going to

1624
01:02:12,200 --> 01:02:16,040
be having a a public hearing on that in

1625
01:02:16,040 --> 01:02:18,160
and it that that one's kind of at a

1626
01:02:18,160 --> 01:02:19,560
point where it's it's moving to public

1627
01:02:19,560 --> 01:02:21,040
hearing. So, that won't require a lot of

1628
01:02:21,040 --> 01:02:23,200
work meeting time either.

1629
01:02:23,200 --> 01:02:27,120
Um so, that leaves the parking ordinance

1630
01:02:27,120 --> 01:02:28,760
and

1631
01:02:28,760 --> 01:02:32,280
uh storm water management as the next

1632
01:02:32,280 --> 01:02:33,440
two

1633
01:02:33,440 --> 01:02:35,640
if we're if we're waiting until informed

1634
01:02:35,640 --> 01:02:38,280
on fire mitigation, that leaves the

1635
01:02:38,280 --> 01:02:39,640
parking ordinance and storm water

1636
01:02:39,640 --> 01:02:41,440
management as the two kind of immediate

1637
01:02:41,440 --> 01:02:43,480
things to jump on in coming work

1638
01:02:43,480 --> 01:02:45,480
meetings. Does that sound appropriate to

1639
01:02:45,480 --> 01:02:49,110
the commission?

1640
01:02:49,120 --> 01:02:50,680
Sounds good to me.

1641
01:02:50,680 --> 01:02:53,520
Okay. Okay. Awesome.

1642
01:02:53,520 --> 01:02:55,320
Um and then do you want to look at your

1643
01:02:55,320 --> 01:02:57,720
priority two items

1644
01:02:57,720 --> 01:03:00,160
and just to kind of make sure that

1645
01:03:00,160 --> 01:03:01,358
you're you're all good with

1646
01:03:01,358 --> 01:03:02,920
[clears throat] with the

1647
01:03:02,920 --> 01:03:05,280
change again that um

1648
01:03:05,280 --> 01:03:07,280
street performers is is bumped up to a

1649
01:03:07,280 --> 01:03:11,150
priority two item.

1650
01:03:11,160 --> 01:03:15,520
All right. So, that would leave us with just

1651
01:03:15,520 --> 01:03:17,960
the size and height bonus and the street

1652
01:03:17,960 --> 01:03:19,640
performer would be the only priority

1653
01:03:19,640 --> 01:03:20,960
twos

1654
01:03:20,960 --> 01:03:25,470
under that scenario. Correct.

1655
01:03:25,480 --> 01:03:27,800
I'll propose a couple others we might

1656
01:03:27,800 --> 01:03:29,480
want to

1657
01:03:29,480 --> 01:03:31,960
um consider.

1658
01:03:31,960 --> 01:03:34,320
Um before we get

1659
01:03:34,320 --> 01:03:37,640
too for much further in there, there's a new one that's come to my mind

1660
01:03:37,640 --> 01:03:39,240
just re- re- recently where maybe we

1661
01:03:39,240 --> 01:03:41,200
want to consider it being a priority

1662
01:03:41,200 --> 01:03:43,720
two. So, if you don't mind

1663
01:03:43,720 --> 01:03:46,400
>> I'll give you some insight. Um

1664
01:03:46,400 --> 01:03:49,720
the town adopted an open space plan in

1665
01:03:49,720 --> 01:03:54,840
late November of 2023. Um and you know,

1666
01:03:54,840 --> 01:03:56,080
I I don't know. I don't want to read

1667
01:03:56,080 --> 01:03:57,560
this whole thing to you, but basically

1668
01:03:57,560 --> 01:04:00,160
they they agreed that, you know, we need

1669
01:04:00,160 --> 01:04:02,480
to have we need to promote open spaces.

1670
01:04:02,480 --> 01:04:05,760
Um it's important to preserve uh the

1671
01:04:05,760 --> 01:04:09,600
character of the the village atmosphere,

1672
01:04:09,600 --> 01:04:10,960
the character of the town, that sort of

1673
01:04:10,960 --> 01:04:13,760
thing and promote putting and they they

1674
01:04:13,760 --> 01:04:16,200
set forth a a number of ways to do that.

1675
01:04:16,200 --> 01:04:18,680
Um buy them outright, purchase

1676
01:04:18,680 --> 01:04:21,960
development rights, or partner with

1677
01:04:21,960 --> 01:04:23,800
property owners. Um

1678
01:04:23,800 --> 01:04:27,400
In that section, um

1679
01:04:27,400 --> 01:04:28,760
you know, it states in there in many

1680
01:04:28,760 --> 01:04:30,400
cases private property owners have

1681
01:04:30,400 --> 01:04:31,960
conservation goals for their property

1682
01:04:31,960 --> 01:04:33,400
that are in line with the town's open

1683
01:04:33,400 --> 01:04:34,720
space goals.

1684
01:04:34,720 --> 01:04:36,320
In these cases, the town should seek

1685
01:04:36,320 --> 01:04:37,560
ways to partner with the private

1686
01:04:37,560 --> 01:04:39,320
property owners to make open space

1687
01:04:39,320 --> 01:04:40,960
preservation of property more feasible

1688
01:04:40,960 --> 01:04:43,080
for the property owner. For example, an

1689
01:04:43,080 --> 01:04:44,480
owner of a large pasture may be

1690
01:04:44,480 --> 01:04:46,080
interested in preserving the pasture for

1691
01:04:46,080 --> 01:04:48,200
open space. The town could partner with

1692
01:04:48,200 --> 01:04:50,040
the property owner on practices that

1693
01:04:50,040 --> 01:04:52,240
make maintaining the property as an open

1694
01:04:52,240 --> 01:04:54,960
pasture or space less of a financial

1695
01:04:54,960 --> 01:04:56,840
burden on the property owner.

1696
01:04:56,840 --> 01:04:58,640
Um

1697
01:04:58,640 --> 01:05:00,080
that being said, there's some

1698
01:05:00,080 --> 01:05:01,800
discrepancies I found in the current

1699
01:05:01,800 --> 01:05:03,800
code that could be biased to conflict

1700
01:05:03,800 --> 01:05:06,400
with or discourage property owners from

1701
01:05:06,400 --> 01:05:08,920
supporting these goals um to preserve

1702
01:05:08,920 --> 01:05:09,740
these.

1703
01:05:09,740 --> 01:05:10,120
>> [clears throat]

1704
01:05:10,120 --> 01:05:12,920
>> And I'll give you some some more

1705
01:05:12,920 --> 01:05:15,040
specific examples. In in the valley

1706
01:05:15,040 --> 01:05:17,280
residential zone, there's a town

1707
01:05:17,280 --> 01:05:19,920
ordinance uh

1708
01:05:19,920 --> 01:05:21,960
chapter nine, article B, valley

1709
01:05:21,960 --> 01:05:24,760
residential zone 10-9-B-1, purpose and

1710
01:05:24,760 --> 01:05:26,600
objective states the valley residential

1711
01:05:26,600 --> 01:05:28,280
zone is established to provide area

1712
01:05:28,280 --> 01:05:30,000
provide areas in the town where

1713
01:05:30,000 --> 01:05:32,600
residential uses may be harmoniously

1714
01:05:32,600 --> 01:05:34,400
integrated with incidental agricultural

1715
01:05:34,400 --> 01:05:37,160
pursu- pursuits. The zone is intended to

1716
01:05:37,160 --> 01:05:38,960
allow the keeping of farm animals and

1717
01:05:38,960 --> 01:05:41,600
fowl in conjunction in conjunction with

1718
01:05:41,600 --> 01:05:42,880
single-family dwelling units to an

1719
01:05:42,880 --> 01:05:44,840
extent consistent with the development.

1720
01:05:44,840 --> 01:05:46,920
The VR zone is also intended to retain

1721
01:05:46,920 --> 01:05:49,080
land in parcels or lots large enough to

1722
01:05:49,080 --> 01:05:51,560
provide efficient and attractive

1723
01:05:51,560 --> 01:05:53,920
residential development which preserves

1724
01:05:53,920 --> 01:05:55,840
the open agricultural and farm type

1725
01:05:55,840 --> 01:05:57,640
impression the area.

1726
01:05:57,640 --> 01:06:01,480
Chapter 15D goes on to say that um the

1727
01:06:01,480 --> 01:06:03,480
purpose is to allow agriculture and the

1728
01:06:03,480 --> 01:06:06,120
keeping of farm animals on a small scale

1729
01:06:06,120 --> 01:06:08,560
for personal non-commercial use or

1730
01:06:08,560 --> 01:06:11,040
limited on-site commercial use. The

1731
01:06:11,040 --> 01:06:13,160
regulations in this chapter are intended

1732
01:06:13,160 --> 01:06:15,880
to allow small scale scale agriculture

1733
01:06:15,880 --> 01:06:18,000
and animal use for personal enjoyment,

1734
01:06:18,000 --> 01:06:19,800
local food food production, and

1735
01:06:19,800 --> 01:06:21,280
sustainability.

1736
01:06:21,280 --> 01:06:22,880
These regulations are separate from

1737
01:06:22,880 --> 01:06:25,520
agricultural businesses use.

1738
01:06:25,520 --> 01:06:27,440
Agricultural business use is allowed in

1739
01:06:27,440 --> 01:06:29,120
the agricultural zone.

1740
01:06:29,120 --> 01:06:31,000
This chapter does not authorize

1741
01:06:31,000 --> 01:06:33,480
large-scale or commercial agricultural

1742
01:06:33,480 --> 01:06:35,400
enterprises.

1743
01:06:35,400 --> 01:06:38,920
10-15-D-4 goes on to say agriculture and

1744
01:06:38,920 --> 01:06:40,640
the keeping of farm animals are allowed

1745
01:06:40,640 --> 01:06:42,040
for the personal use and enjoyment of

1746
01:06:42,040 --> 01:06:44,400
the owner or occupant of the property.

1747
01:06:44,400 --> 01:06:46,520
The agriculture or farm animal use may

1748
01:06:46,520 --> 01:06:48,600
not constitute an enter- commercial

1749
01:06:48,600 --> 01:06:50,840
enterprise in and of itself.

1750
01:06:50,840 --> 01:06:52,520
Nothing in this chapter is intended to

1751
01:06:52,520 --> 01:06:54,520
prohibit the sale of excess agricultural

1752
01:06:54,520 --> 01:06:59,990
pro- products at local farmers markets.

1753
01:07:00,000 --> 01:07:02,000
I think we've all driven by as we drive

1754
01:07:02,000 --> 01:07:04,000
through town, we drive by properties

1755
01:07:04,000 --> 01:07:06,080
that uh contribute to the open space

1756
01:07:06,080 --> 01:07:08,640
spirit of the town's uh open space plan,

1757
01:07:08,640 --> 01:07:10,960
but at the same time may not recognize

1758
01:07:10,960 --> 01:07:13,600
that many of these properties we may not

1759
01:07:13,600 --> 01:07:15,880
recognize many of these properties uh

1760
01:07:15,880 --> 01:07:17,880
constitute a commercial commercial

1761
01:07:17,880 --> 01:07:21,520
enterprise. Um

1762
01:07:21,520 --> 01:07:23,840
May May I mean, hold on.

1763
01:07:23,840 --> 01:07:24,800
May

1764
01:07:24,800 --> 01:07:26,840
lack of turn their passive agricultural

1765
01:07:26,840 --> 01:07:28,920
use of the land. And depending upon

1766
01:07:28,920 --> 01:07:31,280
one's interpretation of limited on-site

1767
01:07:31,280 --> 01:07:32,920
commercial use, they could be held in

1768
01:07:32,920 --> 01:07:35,600
violation. Consider a situation where a

1769
01:07:35,600 --> 01:07:37,400
property owner desiring to enhance the

1770
01:07:37,400 --> 01:07:40,120
visual beauty of the land and make

1771
01:07:40,120 --> 01:07:42,000
maintaining the open space less of a

1772
01:07:42,000 --> 01:07:44,920
financial burden engages with someone to

1773
01:07:44,920 --> 01:07:47,359
graze cattle on his pasture or plant and

1774
01:07:47,359 --> 01:07:50,080
cut off alfalfa or start a vineyard or a

1775
01:07:50,080 --> 01:07:52,080
garden with rows of lavender to maintain

1776
01:07:52,080 --> 01:07:54,400
in a visually appealing state.

1777
01:07:54,400 --> 01:07:56,320
And the owner of the cattle later cattle

1778
01:07:56,320 --> 01:07:58,680
later sells the cattle, the hay, the

1779
01:07:58,680 --> 01:08:01,120
grapes, the lavender and receives some

1780
01:08:01,120 --> 01:08:04,200
minor compensation for those efforts.

1781
01:08:04,200 --> 01:08:05,960
They could be prohibited from doing this

1782
01:08:05,960 --> 01:08:07,760
if one

1783
01:08:07,760 --> 01:08:09,680
uh were to interpret our current code

1784
01:08:09,680 --> 01:08:11,160
such these were commercial farming

1785
01:08:11,160 --> 01:08:13,000
practices that could only happen in

1786
01:08:13,000 --> 01:08:15,560
agricultural zone property.

1787
01:08:15,560 --> 01:08:18,080
This seems quite contrary to the spirit

1788
01:08:18,080 --> 01:08:20,480
of the open space plan. I suggest we add

1789
01:08:20,480 --> 01:08:22,839
our work priorities to our priorities

1790
01:08:22,839 --> 01:08:24,120
the need to review the current code to

1791
01:08:24,120 --> 01:08:26,319
clarify and correct these discrepancies

1792
01:08:26,319 --> 01:08:28,880
um and support the open space plan. I

1793
01:08:28,880 --> 01:08:29,960
think

1794
01:08:29,960 --> 01:08:33,200
relatively modest workload to do that.

1795
01:08:33,200 --> 01:08:36,240
Um and while it's not doesn't seem like

1796
01:08:36,240 --> 01:08:44,040
a major thing, it is a it is a kind of a line that we need to clarify for

1797
01:08:44,040 --> 01:08:46,839
people in the future.

1798
01:08:46,839 --> 01:08:50,719
So, to summarize what I think you said,

1799
01:08:50,719 --> 01:08:52,319
um

1800
01:08:52,319 --> 01:08:55,319
there are we have a a number of

1801
01:08:55,319 --> 01:08:58,040
properties that are zoned residential,

1802
01:08:58,040 --> 01:09:01,120
but are used primarily as pastures or

1803
01:09:01,120 --> 01:09:04,359
orchards, other agricultural ranching or

1804
01:09:04,359 --> 01:09:07,319
yeah, right. And that's okay, except

1805
01:09:07,319 --> 01:09:09,759
that we have ordinances that say you

1806
01:09:09,759 --> 01:09:11,600
basically you can't make money doing

1807
01:09:11,600 --> 01:09:11,960
that.

1808
01:09:11,960 --> 01:09:13,839
>> Correct. Right.

1809
01:09:13,839 --> 01:09:16,040
And your concern is that these

1810
01:09:16,040 --> 01:09:18,520
ordinances would discourage people from

1811
01:09:18,520 --> 01:09:20,920
retaining open space

1812
01:09:20,920 --> 01:09:23,480
um because they can't ca- they can't

1813
01:09:23,480 --> 01:09:26,080
compensate get some compensation from

1814
01:09:26,080 --> 01:09:28,560
the property and could get more money by

1815
01:09:28,560 --> 01:09:29,960
dividing it up and putting houses or

1816
01:09:29,960 --> 01:09:32,040
something like that.

1817
01:09:32,040 --> 01:09:34,799
Um and so your suggestion is that we

1818
01:09:34,799 --> 01:09:37,640
look at

1819
01:09:37,640 --> 01:09:39,240
You mentioned several different

1820
01:09:39,240 --> 01:09:41,080
chapters. Right. I'm not even sure if

1821
01:09:41,080 --> 01:09:43,120
they're all were land use chapters.

1822
01:09:43,120 --> 01:09:44,640
They're all what? Are they all land use

1823
01:09:44,640 --> 01:09:45,759
chapters that you look at that you

1824
01:09:45,759 --> 01:09:45,880
talked

1825
01:09:45,880 --> 01:09:47,960
>> Yes. Okay. So we look at some of these

1826
01:09:47,960 --> 01:09:50,000
chapters and decide do we want to go

1827
01:09:50,000 --> 01:09:54,160
through and clean up or add or adjust so

1828
01:09:54,160 --> 01:09:57,040
that some

1829
01:09:57,040 --> 01:10:00,120
amount of compensation is acceptable.

1830
01:10:00,120 --> 01:10:02,160
Yeah, I think I think it can be we can

1831
01:10:02,160 --> 01:10:03,920
do some things that worded in a way that

1832
01:10:03,920 --> 01:10:07,000
you know the the growing of

1833
01:10:07,000 --> 01:10:09,400
or raising of products on the land is

1834
01:10:09,400 --> 01:10:11,520
acceptable but you know you can't have a

1835
01:10:11,520 --> 01:10:12,960
commercial

1836
01:10:12,960 --> 01:10:16,320
uh you know you can't have a vineyard with a wine tasting thing on

1837
01:10:16,320 --> 01:10:17,440
the front end where you're selling the

1838
01:10:17,440 --> 01:10:18,680
products out of the front door. You

1839
01:10:18,680 --> 01:10:20,600
can't be selling the stuff on site. You

1840
01:10:20,600 --> 01:10:22,080
take it off to a farmer's market and

1841
01:10:22,080 --> 01:10:24,600
sell it. Somebody can raise uh grapes

1842
01:10:24,600 --> 01:10:26,880
there and then uh you know it looks like

1843
01:10:26,880 --> 01:10:28,880
a nice vineyard but you know with the

1844
01:10:28,880 --> 01:10:29,560
harvest they take [clears throat] the

1845
01:10:29,560 --> 01:10:31,040
grapes away somewhere else and and they

1846
01:10:31,040 --> 01:10:32,560
get sold somewhere else and we don't see

1847
01:10:32,560 --> 01:10:34,720
that. We don't care about that. Um and

1848
01:10:34,720 --> 01:10:36,200
they make money out of it. And so if we

1849
01:10:36,200 --> 01:10:37,960
can clar- if we can clarify that and

1850
01:10:37,960 --> 01:10:42,040
clean it up and make it uh more

1851
01:10:42,040 --> 01:10:43,680
one amenable to being able to do that

1852
01:10:43,680 --> 01:10:45,200
but also more

1853
01:10:45,200 --> 01:10:46,880
add more incentive to people to say hey

1854
01:10:46,880 --> 01:10:48,200
that sounds like a pretty good deal.

1855
01:10:48,200 --> 01:10:49,640
Maybe I should take this big piece of

1856
01:10:49,640 --> 01:10:51,080
land I have and do something with it and

1857
01:10:51,080 --> 01:10:53,040
not even just have it make it look ugly

1858
01:10:53,040 --> 01:10:57,390
and have weeds on it.

1859
01:10:57,400 --> 01:11:00,360
I look you know I could see that

1860
01:11:00,360 --> 01:11:02,560
adding that to our priority two list but

1861
01:11:02,560 --> 01:11:04,040
what do other people think?

1862
01:11:04,040 --> 01:11:06,640
I think so. Okay. Yeah. I I definitely

1863
01:11:06,640 --> 01:11:08,640
see the incentive of being able to do

1864
01:11:08,640 --> 01:11:10,200
something like that and benefiting

1865
01:11:10,200 --> 01:11:28,190
everybody.

1866
01:11:28,200 --> 01:11:29,920
We have three priority two items.

1867
01:11:29,920 --> 01:11:31,880
>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Are are there others

1868
01:11:31,880 --> 01:11:34,560
from the current priority three list

1869
01:11:34,560 --> 01:11:35,640
that you would like to move up to

1870
01:11:35,640 --> 01:11:38,120
priority two or other or other additions

1871
01:11:38,120 --> 01:11:40,400
to the list? One of the priority three

1872
01:11:40,400 --> 01:11:42,640
items that I was looking at um

1873
01:11:42,640 --> 01:11:44,960
I wanted to get an idea

1874
01:11:44,960 --> 01:11:47,760
from others. The um sort of midway down

1875
01:11:47,760 --> 01:11:49,840
on the list where it says make active

1876
01:11:49,840 --> 01:11:51,920
use of buildings.

1877
01:11:51,920 --> 01:11:55,000
Uh basically prevent vacant buildings in

1878
01:11:55,000 --> 01:11:56,840
the commercial zone.

1879
01:11:56,840 --> 01:11:58,200
I know this is something that's been

1880
01:11:58,200 --> 01:12:00,560
mentioned to me by people and there you

1881
01:12:00,560 --> 01:12:02,280
know there's certain properties in town.

1882
01:12:02,280 --> 01:12:04,120
Is that something that

1883
01:12:04,120 --> 01:12:07,760
we would want to move up priority wise?

1884
01:12:07,760 --> 01:12:10,520
I propose maybe a uh priority two or

1885
01:12:10,520 --> 01:12:13,830
even a priority one.

1886
01:12:13,840 --> 01:12:15,400
I thought we we've this has kind of been

1887
01:12:15,400 --> 01:12:17,280
on our list for a while something to

1888
01:12:17,280 --> 01:12:19,240
talk about and

1889
01:12:19,240 --> 01:12:20,760
what times I've thought about it or

1890
01:12:20,760 --> 01:12:24,350
we've discussed it briefly

1891
01:12:24,360 --> 01:12:26,400
it seems that there would be it seems it

1892
01:12:26,400 --> 01:12:28,040
would be a pretty good challenge of

1893
01:12:28,040 --> 01:12:30,800
trying to write ordinances that are

1894
01:12:30,800 --> 01:12:34,560
reasonable and legal

1895
01:12:34,560 --> 01:12:37,840
but still drive can commer- this is

1896
01:12:37,840 --> 01:12:39,800
commercial I think is what we're talking

1897
01:12:39,800 --> 01:12:43,120
about. Drive commercial property owners

1898
01:12:43,120 --> 01:12:44,480
to

1899
01:12:44,480 --> 01:12:47,800
do whatever it takes you know to get

1900
01:12:47,800 --> 01:12:51,320
some business into their property. Um

1901
01:12:51,320 --> 01:12:52,600
I think talking about it might be a good

1902
01:12:52,600 --> 01:12:53,720
thing. I'm I'm I'm I'm a little

1903
01:12:53,720 --> 01:12:55,040
concerned that we could use spend a lot

1904
01:12:55,040 --> 01:12:56,160
of time

1905
01:12:56,160 --> 01:12:59,600
and not come up with a land use

1906
01:12:59,600 --> 01:13:01,880
ordinance that

1907
01:13:01,880 --> 01:13:03,560
makes a big difference.

1908
01:13:03,560 --> 01:13:05,520
That we can enforce.

1909
01:13:05,520 --> 01:13:08,120
right? You can't I

1910
01:13:08,120 --> 01:13:09,320
mean I don't know that it makes sense

1911
01:13:09,320 --> 01:13:10,840
like fine somebody because you have a

1912
01:13:10,840 --> 01:13:13,120
va- vacant building because you can't

1913
01:13:13,120 --> 01:13:15,440
get a business to come lease your

1914
01:13:15,440 --> 01:13:17,400
building.

1915
01:13:17,400 --> 01:13:19,080
But maybe there's other things we could

1916
01:13:19,080 --> 01:13:23,720
do. So I don't know and my thought on this was

1917
01:13:23,720 --> 01:13:26,680
that there might be other communities in

1918
01:13:26,680 --> 01:13:29,440
Utah or or maybe other examples maybe we

1919
01:13:29,440 --> 01:13:32,120
can Colorado or something where they

1920
01:13:32,120 --> 01:13:33,640
have done something. I don't know what

1921
01:13:33,640 --> 01:13:35,160
they might have done that they have

1922
01:13:35,160 --> 01:13:37,760
awaited tax or to

1923
01:13:37,760 --> 01:13:41,000
uh somewhere somehow incentivize um you

1924
01:13:41,000 --> 01:13:42,560
know the

1925
01:13:42,560 --> 01:13:44,760
conversion of va- vacant buildings into

1926
01:13:44,760 --> 01:13:46,760
a productive business.

1927
01:13:46,760 --> 01:13:48,800
I think it's worth the discussion. I

1928
01:13:48,800 --> 01:13:53,790
would lean towards putting it under two.

1929
01:13:53,800 --> 01:13:56,400
I I would think priority two

1930
01:13:56,400 --> 01:13:58,680
myself.

1931
01:13:58,680 --> 01:14:00,880
Yeah I I mean I think it needs

1932
01:14:00,880 --> 01:14:03,280
some more research. Um as you mentioned

1933
01:14:03,280 --> 01:14:05,120
Tom maybe we can look you know statewide

1934
01:14:05,120 --> 01:14:06,480
and see where there's other people or

1935
01:14:06,480 --> 01:14:08,320
other towns or communities doing this

1936
01:14:08,320 --> 01:14:10,760
and see if they're successful or not and

1937
01:14:10,760 --> 01:14:11,640
then

1938
01:14:11,640 --> 01:14:13,360
you know once once we figure out some

1939
01:14:13,360 --> 01:14:15,040
ways maybe we can

1940
01:14:15,040 --> 01:14:16,000
um

1941
01:14:16,000 --> 01:14:18,120
and I don't know. Do we move to two now

1942
01:14:18,120 --> 01:14:20,040
or leave it at three and till we get

1943
01:14:20,040 --> 01:14:21,880
some more research and more background

1944
01:14:21,880 --> 01:14:25,520
on it? That's maybe my only thought so.

1945
01:14:25,520 --> 01:14:26,360
Well

1946
01:14:26,360 --> 01:14:28,080
in in some cases it may be that the

1947
01:14:28,080 --> 01:14:30,040
structure

1948
01:14:30,040 --> 01:14:31,920
would be best to for them to tear it

1949
01:14:31,920 --> 01:14:34,600
down right? It may be but and and that

1950
01:14:34,600 --> 01:14:36,160
would clean the building up or they

1951
01:14:36,160 --> 01:14:37,240
could

1952
01:14:37,240 --> 01:14:39,040
do a facelift and rent it out to

1953
01:14:39,040 --> 01:14:40,240
someone.

1954
01:14:40,240 --> 01:14:42,200
The the question I guess is going to

1955
01:14:42,200 --> 01:14:44,200
come down to I think is probably what

1956
01:14:44,200 --> 01:14:45,600
you know what Terry was alluding to is

1957
01:14:45,600 --> 01:14:47,720
that you know what effective means

1958
01:14:47,720 --> 01:14:50,000
mechanism can we use to force them to

1959
01:14:50,000 --> 01:14:51,560
tear their building down because just

1960
01:14:51,560 --> 01:14:52,920
because it's unsightly and we don't

1961
01:14:52,920 --> 01:14:55,600
currently have a regulation and we can pass a

1962
01:14:55,600 --> 01:14:56,960
regulation and

1963
01:14:56,960 --> 01:15:01,360
maybe that'll have a implication way

1964
01:15:01,360 --> 01:15:03,520
down the road. Um is it going to have

1965
01:15:03,520 --> 01:15:05,880
any impa- impact on the existing

1966
01:15:05,880 --> 01:15:06,640
uh

1967
01:15:06,640 --> 01:15:08,720
structures that are that are

1968
01:15:08,720 --> 01:15:10,920
you know in that condition and have been

1969
01:15:10,920 --> 01:15:12,960
for 20 years or so or 10 years or

1970
01:15:12,960 --> 01:15:15,990
whatever. I don't know.

1971
01:15:16,000 --> 01:15:18,920
But it's worth thinking about certainly.

1972
01:15:18,920 --> 01:15:20,920
Is there a timeline for a vacant

1973
01:15:20,920 --> 01:15:24,230
building to be vacant?

1974
01:15:24,240 --> 01:15:25,440
I don't think we have anything in the

1975
01:15:25,440 --> 01:15:27,640
ordinance that says that. Maybe you

1976
01:15:27,640 --> 01:15:29,880
should have a time We we we we could you

1977
01:15:29,880 --> 01:15:32,080
know what what what constitutes vacant?

1978
01:15:32,080 --> 01:15:32,920
How long do you have to be

1979
01:15:32,920 --> 01:15:33,600
>> Right.

1980
01:15:33,600 --> 01:15:35,160
Well I yeah and I I think

1981
01:15:35,160 --> 01:15:37,040
>> of seven years and there's a building in

1982
01:15:37,040 --> 01:15:38,440
Yeah. I mean there there more than that

1983
01:15:38,440 --> 01:15:39,920
so

1984
01:15:39,920 --> 01:15:41,680
>> There should be a timeline.

1985
01:15:41,680 --> 01:15:43,320
Now one of the things

1986
01:15:43,320 --> 01:15:46,040
is that some of the buildings that have

1987
01:15:46,040 --> 01:15:48,480
been vacant for some time are covered

1988
01:15:48,480 --> 01:15:50,360
under various kinds of development

1989
01:15:50,360 --> 01:15:52,720
agreements and other agreements

1990
01:15:52,720 --> 01:15:55,320
um that we don't control we're the

1991
01:15:55,320 --> 01:15:57,360
planning commission so So they can be

1992
01:15:57,360 --> 01:15:59,920
vacant forever? Well right now we don't

1993
01:15:59,920 --> 01:16:01,680
have an ordinance that says they can't

1994
01:16:01,680 --> 01:16:03,560
but even if we did an ordinance there's

1995
01:16:03,560 --> 01:16:05,400
still development agreements and other

1996
01:16:05,400 --> 01:16:08,000
agreements that may supersede some of

1997
01:16:08,000 --> 01:16:11,720
the things we do so we may not necessarily be able to solve

1998
01:16:11,720 --> 01:16:13,640
every vacant building.

1999
01:16:13,640 --> 01:16:15,040
Um but on the other hand maybe there is

2000
01:16:15,040 --> 01:16:17,440
something we can do that encourages it.

2001
01:16:17,440 --> 01:16:19,000
Um

2002
01:16:19,000 --> 01:16:21,320
I mean I guess I'd like to answer that

2003
01:16:21,320 --> 01:16:23,040
question

2004
01:16:23,040 --> 01:16:24,640
first and then

2005
01:16:24,640 --> 01:16:26,680
figure out where it goes.

2006
01:16:26,680 --> 01:16:28,880
Because if we if we find that you know

2007
01:16:28,880 --> 01:16:31,920
they there's nothing we can do about

2008
01:16:31,920 --> 01:16:34,000
buildings that are uh

2009
01:16:34,000 --> 01:16:35,760
sit under operating under development

2010
01:16:35,760 --> 01:16:38,000
agreements then

2011
01:16:38,000 --> 01:16:40,600
So that that might warrant a discussion

2012
01:16:40,600 --> 01:16:43,400
and some research and to see what like

2013
01:16:43,400 --> 01:16:44,840
you said maybe there's some something

2014
01:16:44,840 --> 01:16:46,880
that other communities have done that

2015
01:16:46,880 --> 01:16:49,800
makes sense and and actually helps.

2016
01:16:49,800 --> 01:16:51,080
Um

2017
01:16:51,080 --> 01:16:52,960
Is priority two I I think priority two I

2018
01:16:52,960 --> 01:16:54,520
kind of agree with you. Is that okay

2019
01:16:54,520 --> 01:16:56,320
with you? Yeah. Yeah that'd be good.

2020
01:16:56,320 --> 01:16:57,480
Yeah.

2021
01:16:57,480 --> 01:17:00,120
Um what we can do on that if if the

2022
01:17:00,120 --> 01:17:02,440
commission would like this is leave that

2023
01:17:02,440 --> 01:17:04,880
as a priority two item or priority three

2024
01:17:04,880 --> 01:17:06,040
wherever you want to prioritize it for

2025
01:17:06,040 --> 01:17:08,280
your work as a commission and in the

2026
01:17:08,280 --> 01:17:10,080
meantime you could direct staff to start

2027
01:17:10,080 --> 01:17:11,960
doing some preliminary research to

2028
01:17:11,960 --> 01:17:14,160
answer some of these questions and then

2029
01:17:14,160 --> 01:17:15,320
we can bring that back to you and then

2030
01:17:15,320 --> 01:17:16,680
you can decide

2031
01:17:16,680 --> 01:17:18,520
how you want you know if the answer is

2032
01:17:18,520 --> 01:17:20,320
there's nothing we can do

2033
01:17:20,320 --> 01:17:22,040
then that it's pretty easy right?

2034
01:17:22,040 --> 01:17:24,200
>> Yeah. Yeah. But if the answer is oh yeah

2035
01:17:24,200 --> 01:17:25,800
there's this is what other communities

2036
01:17:25,800 --> 01:17:27,160
have done and here's what we can do then

2037
01:17:27,160 --> 01:17:29,240
you may want to re-evaluate what that

2038
01:17:29,240 --> 01:17:31,240
priority is. So if you'd like um to

2039
01:17:31,240 --> 01:17:32,840
direct staff to do that research that's

2040
01:17:32,840 --> 01:17:33,560
an option for you.

2041
01:17:33,560 --> 01:17:35,120
>> I think that would be great.

2042
01:17:35,120 --> 01:17:38,800
>> And to know what law what laws what

2043
01:17:38,800 --> 01:17:41,360
kind of agreement agreements what other

2044
01:17:41,360 --> 01:17:43,400
communities are doing all of that kind

2045
01:17:43,400 --> 01:17:45,200
of information

2046
01:17:45,200 --> 01:17:47,583
to help us understand what we can

2047
01:17:47,583 --> 01:17:49,080
>> [clears throat]

2048
01:17:49,080 --> 01:17:50,400
>> I'm I'm happy to have the planning

2049
01:17:50,400 --> 01:17:51,520
commission direct Nile to do that

2050
01:17:51,520 --> 01:17:53,478
research. This is it's fantastic.

2051
01:17:53,478 --> 01:17:53,960
>> [laughter]

2052
01:17:53,960 --> 01:17:57,840
>> Okay. You are so directed.

2053
01:17:57,840 --> 01:17:59,320
Or maybe I maybe the chairman should say

2054
01:17:59,320 --> 01:18:00,029
that.

2055
01:18:00,029 --> 01:18:01,880
>> [laughter]

2056
01:18:01,880 --> 01:18:03,200
>> Um do you want us to wait a couple weeks

2057
01:18:03,200 --> 01:18:05,840
before you do that or

2058
01:18:05,840 --> 01:18:07,640
Um

2059
01:18:07,640 --> 01:18:09,200
I'll I'll I'll put out a couple of

2060
01:18:09,200 --> 01:18:11,080
others that we may or may not want to

2061
01:18:11,080 --> 01:18:12,560
put to priority two. I was kind of back

2062
01:18:12,560 --> 01:18:15,400
and forth on. Um one was the retain well

2063
01:18:15,400 --> 01:18:16,600
there it is the retaining wall

2064
01:18:16,600 --> 01:18:18,040
standards.

2065
01:18:18,040 --> 01:18:20,640
Um

2066
01:18:20,640 --> 01:18:22,840
How did this get on the list? Do you do

2067
01:18:22,840 --> 01:18:24,520
the staff remember?

2068
01:18:24,520 --> 01:18:27,000
This was a staff suggestion. So this is

2069
01:18:27,000 --> 01:18:30,760
this was um an item that was at a uh

2070
01:18:30,760 --> 01:18:32,840
planning conference

2071
01:18:32,840 --> 01:18:34,719
several years ago

2072
01:18:34,719 --> 01:18:37,600
and the the issue is that on many

2073
01:18:37,600 --> 01:18:39,320
communities particularly in along the

2074
01:18:39,320 --> 01:18:41,400
Wasatch Front that are seeing a lot of

2075
01:18:41,400 --> 01:18:43,680
development um encroaching up into the

2076
01:18:43,680 --> 01:18:45,120
hillsides

2077
01:18:45,120 --> 01:18:49,040
they've seen these just kind of really

2078
01:18:49,040 --> 01:18:52,000
creative and and that's that's a a

2079
01:18:52,000 --> 01:18:53,680
charitable term

2080
01:18:53,680 --> 01:18:55,880
um re- re- retaining walls.

2081
01:18:55,880 --> 01:19:01,280
Um and and they've caused all sorts of issues and and problems and so Lehi

2082
01:19:01,280 --> 01:19:03,360
City went into their retaining wall

2083
01:19:03,360 --> 01:19:06,400
standards and

2084
01:19:06,400 --> 01:19:07,960
kind of said no this is the kind of

2085
01:19:07,960 --> 01:19:10,320
retaining wall that you can do. This is

2086
01:19:10,320 --> 01:19:12,240
these are our

2087
01:19:12,240 --> 01:19:13,880
and and and that's what this is all

2088
01:19:13,880 --> 01:19:15,440
about. So we already have an ordinance

2089
01:19:15,440 --> 01:19:16,680
that says you can't have a retaining

2090
01:19:16,680 --> 01:19:18,160
wall greater than 10 ft. So we're in a

2091
01:19:18,160 --> 01:19:20,000
much better position than some of these

2092
01:19:20,000 --> 01:19:21,400
Wasatch Front communities that we're

2093
01:19:21,400 --> 01:19:23,160
seeing like

2094
01:19:23,160 --> 01:19:26,080
60 ft tall retaining walls.

2095
01:19:26,080 --> 01:19:28,920
Just kind of ridiculous stuff. Um, but

2096
01:19:28,920 --> 01:19:30,760
there are other things

2097
01:19:30,760 --> 01:19:33,960
that the that this um Lehi City found

2098
01:19:33,960 --> 01:19:36,040
that I think were were pretty pretty

2099
01:19:36,040 --> 01:19:38,400
helpful like um if you're going to have

2100
01:19:38,400 --> 01:19:41,560
a a retaining wall that's in in steps

2101
01:19:41,560 --> 01:19:43,520
like a a

2102
01:19:43,520 --> 01:19:44,880
uh

2103
01:19:44,880 --> 01:19:46,680
tiered tiered, thank you.

2104
01:19:46,680 --> 01:19:48,080
A tiered retaining wall, what's the

2105
01:19:48,080 --> 01:19:50,440
minimum distance between those tiers?

2106
01:19:50,440 --> 01:19:52,640
And um what kind of material can you

2107
01:19:52,640 --> 01:19:55,920
make a retaining wall out of? We um

2108
01:19:55,920 --> 01:19:57,280
there's in Springdale we have a lot of

2109
01:19:57,280 --> 01:19:59,360
stacked rock retaining walls which are

2110
01:19:59,360 --> 01:20:03,440
fantastic and they look really nice and they they add to the kind of to the

2111
01:20:03,440 --> 01:20:05,320
character of the community.

2112
01:20:05,320 --> 01:20:07,640
Um one of the engineers who presented at

2113
01:20:07,640 --> 01:20:09,280
this said, "I like to call those stacked

2114
01:20:09,280 --> 01:20:11,280
marble retaining walls

2115
01:20:11,280 --> 01:20:12,600
because that's essentially what they

2116
01:20:12,600 --> 01:20:14,440
become in an earthquake or just big

2117
01:20:14,440 --> 01:20:18,720
marbles that then collapse." So,

2118
01:20:18,720 --> 01:20:20,000
the the those are the kind of things

2119
01:20:20,000 --> 01:20:25,110
that that this item would be looking at.

2120
01:20:25,120 --> 01:20:26,520
Last year when we looked at this, the

2121
01:20:26,520 --> 01:20:29,880
comment in the south to the side was the commission suggested this could be

2122
01:20:29,880 --> 01:20:32,160
informed by deep the deep excavation

2123
01:20:32,160 --> 01:20:33,960
ordinance changes which is an ongoing

2124
01:20:33,960 --> 01:20:36,640
priority two item which is now complete.

2125
01:20:36,640 --> 01:20:39,850
So, are we informed by that?

2126
01:20:39,850 --> 01:20:40,600
>> [laughter]

2127
01:20:40,600 --> 01:20:45,120
>> So so that um that that ordinance could

2128
01:20:45,120 --> 01:20:46,360
have

2129
01:20:46,360 --> 01:20:48,840
been coupled with this. Yeah. In in the

2130
01:20:48,840 --> 01:20:52,760
end what what the the direction that ordinance went is it it really is

2131
01:20:52,760 --> 01:20:55,240
looking at what happens during the the

2132
01:20:55,240 --> 01:20:57,720
construction phase of a project with

2133
01:20:57,720 --> 01:20:59,600
deep excavations.

2134
01:20:59,600 --> 01:21:01,920
And not necessarily what happens to the

2135
01:21:01,920 --> 01:21:04,520
finished product, the finished grade.

2136
01:21:04,520 --> 01:21:06,400
So, um

2137
01:21:06,400 --> 01:21:08,040
the answer is probably

2138
01:21:08,040 --> 01:21:09,400
>> No, yeah.

2139
01:21:09,400 --> 01:21:11,320
not we we didn't take advantage of that

2140
01:21:11,320 --> 01:21:16,550
opportunity to Yep.

2141
01:21:16,560 --> 01:21:18,080
Okay.

2142
01:21:18,080 --> 01:21:21,320
So, what do you think? Do we want to move that one to priority

2143
01:21:21,320 --> 01:21:25,430
two?

2144
01:21:25,440 --> 01:21:32,710
Kind of halfway there myself.

2145
01:21:32,720 --> 01:21:35,400
Okay. Yeah. I I would say it sounds like

2146
01:21:35,400 --> 01:21:39,320
a I think it sounds like a good idea.

2147
01:21:39,320 --> 01:21:40,560
Agreed.

2148
01:21:40,560 --> 01:21:41,440
All right.

2149
01:21:41,440 --> 01:21:43,480
Okay. So, yes.

2150
01:21:43,480 --> 01:21:45,960
I'll bring up one other one.

2151
01:21:45,960 --> 01:21:48,720
Um it was to limit the chain design

2152
01:21:48,720 --> 01:21:50,640
buildings. Actually, I have a question

2153
01:21:50,640 --> 01:21:52,360
about this one.

2154
01:21:52,360 --> 01:21:53,720
Um I think it's

2155
01:21:53,720 --> 01:21:55,200
I think it says village yeah, promote

2156
01:21:55,200 --> 01:21:57,800
village character, limit chain design

2157
01:21:57,800 --> 01:22:00,640
buildings. So, this was the concept that

2158
01:22:00,640 --> 01:22:03,200
we're not going to allow

2159
01:22:03,200 --> 01:22:07,800
large structures of of that that are a

2160
01:22:07,800 --> 01:22:10,080
particular brand.

2161
01:22:10,080 --> 01:22:11,760
Um

2162
01:22:11,760 --> 01:22:13,240
which I think for the most part we don't

2163
01:22:13,240 --> 01:22:15,000
allow now. So, I kind of wonder want to

2164
01:22:15,000 --> 01:22:16,880
understand what the thought behind this

2165
01:22:16,880 --> 01:22:18,000
one is.

2166
01:22:18,000 --> 01:22:20,560
And also, I seem to remember a years ago

2167
01:22:20,560 --> 01:22:22,920
we had some ordinances that

2168
01:22:22,920 --> 01:22:25,600
was attempted to limit the ability to

2169
01:22:25,600 --> 01:22:27,520
bring in a chain

2170
01:22:27,520 --> 01:22:31,280
um a chain store or chain restaurant and

2171
01:22:31,280 --> 01:22:34,160
that we ended up losing a legal battle

2172
01:22:34,160 --> 01:22:35,440
over that.

2173
01:22:35,440 --> 01:22:37,760
So, I'm curious what this is and how it

2174
01:22:37,760 --> 01:22:40,720
relates to that past experience.

2175
01:22:40,720 --> 01:22:42,960
Yeah, so the this is great great

2176
01:22:42,960 --> 01:22:45,000
questions and really good feedback or or

2177
01:22:45,000 --> 01:22:46,360
not feedback but but foundational

2178
01:22:46,360 --> 01:22:49,000
questions um because this is something

2179
01:22:49,000 --> 01:22:50,920
that's in our general plan

2180
01:22:50,920 --> 01:22:53,200
and was put in the in the general plan

2181
01:22:53,200 --> 01:22:55,720
kind of as a result of the legal

2182
01:22:55,720 --> 01:22:57,720
challenges that you described. You are

2183
01:22:57,720 --> 01:23:00,000
correct that um for some time the town

2184
01:23:00,000 --> 01:23:01,520
had an ordinance that prohibited what we

2185
01:23:01,520 --> 01:23:03,280
called franchise restaurants, excuse me,

2186
01:23:03,280 --> 01:23:05,280
formula restaurants which was

2187
01:23:05,280 --> 01:23:06,680
essentially like a a franchise or a

2188
01:23:06,680 --> 01:23:08,680
chain restaurant.

2189
01:23:08,680 --> 01:23:12,120
Um and um af- after a a legal challenge,

2190
01:23:12,120 --> 01:23:15,440
the the town was was um

2191
01:23:15,440 --> 01:23:18,760
forced to repeal that ordinance.

2192
01:23:18,760 --> 01:23:20,080
And

2193
01:23:20,080 --> 01:23:21,160
the

2194
01:23:21,160 --> 01:23:24,280
uh essentially the the legal um

2195
01:23:24,280 --> 01:23:25,680
landscape says you you can't tell

2196
01:23:25,680 --> 01:23:27,160
somebody what kind of business they can

2197
01:23:27,160 --> 01:23:29,320
operate. Right? You you can't say you

2198
01:23:29,320 --> 01:23:30,720
can have a

2199
01:23:30,720 --> 01:23:33,000
local sandwich shop here but not a chain

2200
01:23:33,000 --> 01:23:34,600
sandwich shop here.

2201
01:23:34,600 --> 01:23:36,560
We we that that we cannot regulate. But

2202
01:23:36,560 --> 01:23:38,560
we are welcome to regulate what the

2203
01:23:38,560 --> 01:23:40,360
building looks like

2204
01:23:40,360 --> 01:23:43,200
and and that's also

2205
01:23:43,200 --> 01:23:46,040
a big part of what the concern over um

2206
01:23:46,040 --> 01:23:48,160
these franchise businesses was in the

2207
01:23:48,160 --> 01:23:49,280
first place.

2208
01:23:49,280 --> 01:23:50,400
So,

2209
01:23:50,400 --> 01:23:51,960
there this was in the general plan

2210
01:23:51,960 --> 01:23:54,400
saying, "Okay, we have our

2211
01:23:54,400 --> 01:23:56,960
um general design standards that

2212
01:23:56,960 --> 01:23:58,720
everybody has to comply by and and they

2213
01:23:58,720 --> 01:24:00,120
do a really good job of promoting a

2214
01:24:00,120 --> 01:24:02,520
certain look and feel in the community

2215
01:24:02,520 --> 01:24:04,480
and that's great and and and and those

2216
01:24:04,480 --> 01:24:06,320
have been very successful. We're not

2217
01:24:06,320 --> 01:24:08,400
trying to replicate those or or change

2218
01:24:08,400 --> 01:24:10,800
those.

2219
01:24:10,800 --> 01:24:13,200
What what this is looking at is are

2220
01:24:13,200 --> 01:24:14,800
there certain things that we can put

2221
01:24:14,800 --> 01:24:16,760
into the design standards or or building

2222
01:24:16,760 --> 01:24:17,880
standards

2223
01:24:17,880 --> 01:24:19,360
that would

2224
01:24:19,360 --> 01:24:21,680
um make it

2225
01:24:21,680 --> 01:24:23,960
so that development is is more unique to

2226
01:24:23,960 --> 01:24:29,800
Springdale. Um so, I'm I'm purposely not saying

2227
01:24:29,800 --> 01:24:32,280
prevent chains because that's not what

2228
01:24:32,280 --> 01:24:34,440
we're trying to do although that it's

2229
01:24:34,440 --> 01:24:35,920
what's the staff report says, right? But

2230
01:24:35,920 --> 01:24:37,520
we can't legally say that, right? We

2231
01:24:37,520 --> 01:24:39,920
can't say our express intent is that we

2232
01:24:39,920 --> 01:24:41,400
are trying to keep

2233
01:24:41,400 --> 01:24:44,200
chain restaurants out. That is

2234
01:24:44,200 --> 01:24:45,720
But what we can do is say we're trying

2235
01:24:45,720 --> 01:24:49,720
to promote buildings that are are um

2236
01:24:49,720 --> 01:24:51,520
more uh uh

2237
01:24:51,520 --> 01:24:52,800
reflective of what Springdale wants to

2238
01:24:52,800 --> 01:24:53,720
be.

2239
01:24:53,720 --> 01:24:57,120
So, and and if the the the secondary uh

2240
01:24:57,120 --> 01:24:57,960
um

2241
01:24:57,960 --> 01:24:59,160
impact is that it makes it more

2242
01:24:59,160 --> 01:25:01,680
difficult for a chain

2243
01:25:01,680 --> 01:25:03,440
business to locate in Springdale, so be

2244
01:25:03,440 --> 01:25:04,960
it, right?

2245
01:25:04,960 --> 01:25:07,040
That's what this is about. So, it's it's

2246
01:25:07,040 --> 01:25:10,160
things like we already prev- um prohibit

2247
01:25:10,160 --> 01:25:12,280
drive-through windows.

2248
01:25:12,280 --> 01:25:13,240
Right? But that would be something to

2249
01:25:13,240 --> 01:25:14,160
say you can't cannot have a

2250
01:25:14,160 --> 01:25:15,480
drive-through window.

2251
01:25:15,480 --> 01:25:18,000
Um maybe there's there's um something

2252
01:25:18,000 --> 01:25:20,040
that says

2253
01:25:20,040 --> 01:25:20,720
uh

2254
01:25:20,720 --> 01:25:23,320
of- often times these these formula

2255
01:25:23,320 --> 01:25:25,160
or chain businesses have certain

2256
01:25:25,160 --> 01:25:27,800
parameters for a building that they need

2257
01:25:27,800 --> 01:25:29,840
to satisfy, right? It has to have a

2258
01:25:29,840 --> 01:25:31,800
certain amount of frontage on the

2259
01:25:31,800 --> 01:25:33,240
building or a certain amount of glazing

2260
01:25:33,240 --> 01:25:35,480
on the building or a certain orientation

2261
01:25:35,480 --> 01:25:37,240
to a corner. I don't know what they are

2262
01:25:37,240 --> 01:25:38,280
cuz we haven't done the research on

2263
01:25:38,280 --> 01:25:39,120
this.

2264
01:25:39,120 --> 01:25:42,560
But we could look at at at standards

2265
01:25:42,560 --> 01:25:44,040
that we say, "This is what we want to

2266
01:25:44,040 --> 01:25:46,400
see in Springdale." And whether or not

2267
01:25:46,400 --> 01:25:48,240
that makes it more or less feasible for

2268
01:25:48,240 --> 01:25:50,280
one of these chain um businesses to move

2269
01:25:50,280 --> 01:25:51,760
in.

2270
01:25:51,760 --> 01:25:53,880
Am I Is this making sense?

2271
01:25:53,880 --> 01:25:56,800
>> I'm I'm I'm I'm trying to to to parse

2272
01:25:56,800 --> 01:25:59,320
this in a way that is

2273
01:25:59,320 --> 01:26:04,600
legally supportable. So, So so, I guess I get it but what I'm wondering

2274
01:26:04,600 --> 01:26:08,240
is is is our our standards not currently

2275
01:26:08,240 --> 01:26:10,720
stringent enough to make it you know,

2276
01:26:10,720 --> 01:26:17,440
not look like a you know, if if a for lack of a better term chain

2277
01:26:17,440 --> 01:26:20,000
type restaurant wants to come into town

2278
01:26:20,000 --> 01:26:21,920
you know, a a branded restaurant, let's

2279
01:26:21,920 --> 01:26:23,400
call it whatever.

2280
01:26:23,400 --> 01:26:23,960
Um

2281
01:26:23,960 --> 01:26:29,240
you know, are our building uh

2282
01:26:29,240 --> 01:26:32,360
requirements now you know, standards and

2283
01:26:32,360 --> 01:26:34,120
pal- color palettes and all that sort of

2284
01:26:34,120 --> 01:26:36,320
thing and signing and that sort of thing

2285
01:26:36,320 --> 01:26:38,240
isn't going to make allow them to look

2286
01:26:38,240 --> 01:26:41,320
like their normal brand in town. And so,

2287
01:26:41,320 --> 01:26:43,520
what they and we since we can't regulate

2288
01:26:43,520 --> 01:26:45,160
nor choose to regulate what's operating

2289
01:26:45,160 --> 01:26:46,560
inside the building as long as it

2290
01:26:46,560 --> 01:26:48,720
doesn't look like you know, the normal

2291
01:26:48,720 --> 01:26:50,320
sort of thing you would expect if you

2292
01:26:50,320 --> 01:26:53,240
saw that branded uh restaurant come into

2293
01:26:53,240 --> 01:26:55,120
town. We've kind of

2294
01:26:55,120 --> 01:26:57,640
done this already maybe.

2295
01:26:57,640 --> 01:26:59,560
To a large extent, yes, absolutely.

2296
01:26:59,560 --> 01:27:02,920
Yeah. So again, this was something that got put in the general plan years

2297
01:27:02,920 --> 01:27:05,040
ago. [clears throat] Sure. And whether

2298
01:27:05,040 --> 01:27:06,800
or not there's more to be done on this,

2299
01:27:06,800 --> 01:27:08,320
that's that's a decision for the

2300
01:27:08,320 --> 01:27:09,480
planning commission to make. If your

2301
01:27:09,480 --> 01:27:11,360
determination is, "Hey, we we already do

2302
01:27:11,360 --> 01:27:13,560
a good job of this and kind of satisfied

2303
01:27:13,560 --> 01:27:15,960
that general plan objective." Great. If

2304
01:27:15,960 --> 01:27:17,280
you'd like to research it more and look

2305
01:27:17,280 --> 01:27:18,720
at it more, you're welcome to do that as

2306
01:27:18,720 --> 01:27:21,350
well.

2307
01:27:21,360 --> 01:27:23,120
I'm thinking as now I've learned a

2308
01:27:23,120 --> 01:27:24,960
little more about this, maybe it still

2309
01:27:24,960 --> 01:27:27,320
stays a three. I think so. Um because we

2310
01:27:27,320 --> 01:27:29,000
don't have a

2311
01:27:29,000 --> 01:27:30,280
problem [clears throat] in my perception

2312
01:27:30,280 --> 01:27:31,760
with

2313
01:27:31,760 --> 01:27:34,080
too many chain looking restaurants or

2314
01:27:34,080 --> 01:27:36,960
too many Right. Well, I I

2315
01:27:36,960 --> 01:27:38,560
really question whether or not, you

2316
01:27:38,560 --> 01:27:40,320
know, they would

2317
01:27:40,320 --> 01:27:41,800
be able to make it look like a chain

2318
01:27:41,800 --> 01:27:43,960
restaurant given our current Right. I

2319
01:27:43,960 --> 01:27:45,320
mean, what what it seems to me it would

2320
01:27:45,320 --> 01:27:46,880
be is you'd you'd you would go look at

2321
01:27:46,880 --> 01:27:48,840
chain restaurants and figure out, "Well,

2322
01:27:48,840 --> 01:27:51,040
is there one or two other things we need

2323
01:27:51,040 --> 01:27:53,960
to add Right. versus because I think

2324
01:27:53,960 --> 01:27:56,040
like you say, we've already got pretty

2325
01:27:56,040 --> 01:27:58,840
good standards for keeping I think what

2326
01:27:58,840 --> 01:28:01,719
I heard when Tom was talking was that

2327
01:28:01,719 --> 01:28:04,040
we need to be careful what we In other

2328
01:28:04,040 --> 01:28:06,000
words, let's not

2329
01:28:06,000 --> 01:28:08,080
ease up our signage standards or the

2330
01:28:08,080 --> 01:28:13,120
color palette or things like that that would lend to Right.

2331
01:28:13,120 --> 01:28:15,880
promote, you know, a a restaurant, a

2332
01:28:15,880 --> 01:28:17,960
chain restaurant from coming in. You

2333
01:28:17,960 --> 01:28:20,520
know, just be cognizant of those things

2334
01:28:20,520 --> 01:28:23,520
that could happen when we make changes.

2335
01:28:23,520 --> 01:28:24,400
Yeah.

2336
01:28:24,400 --> 01:28:25,920
All right. Well, then

2337
01:28:25,920 --> 01:28:27,280
So, it seems like leaving that as a

2338
01:28:27,280 --> 01:28:29,840
Yeah. Yeah.

2339
01:28:29,840 --> 01:28:31,160
Okay.

2340
01:28:31,160 --> 01:28:33,680
So, we ended up with four priority twos,

2341
01:28:33,680 --> 01:28:35,120
I think.

2342
01:28:35,120 --> 01:28:37,080
Uh yes, street performers, the size and

2343
01:28:37,080 --> 01:28:39,920
height bonus, encourage more open space

2344
01:28:39,920 --> 01:28:42,360
preservation through incentivizing

2345
01:28:42,360 --> 01:28:44,200
agricultural uses on valley residential

2346
01:28:44,200 --> 01:28:46,880
properties by allowing limited offsite

2347
01:28:46,880 --> 01:28:49,200
sale of agricultural products. We'll

2348
01:28:49,200 --> 01:28:51,200
find a more concise

2349
01:28:51,200 --> 01:28:52,400
It's a more concise way to say that,

2350
01:28:52,400 --> 01:28:53,480
yeah.

2351
01:28:53,480 --> 01:28:54,960
And retaining wall standards. Those are

2352
01:28:54,960 --> 01:28:57,240
the four that you've got.

2353
01:28:57,240 --> 01:28:59,960
That sounds good. Yeah.

2354
01:28:59,960 --> 01:29:02,320
Okay. All right. And then you guys will

2355
01:29:02,320 --> 01:29:04,200
get those back to us, right?

2356
01:29:04,200 --> 01:29:05,840
Yes.

2357
01:29:05,840 --> 01:29:06,760
Okay.

2358
01:29:06,760 --> 01:29:08,480
have the same issue that we did last

2359
01:29:08,480 --> 01:29:10,280
time. And we will also bring back

2360
01:29:10,280 --> 01:29:12,080
research on um

2361
01:29:12,080 --> 01:29:14,320
what strategies are are

2362
01:29:14,320 --> 01:29:15,960
possible or feasible for making active

2363
01:29:15,960 --> 01:29:21,710
use of vacant buildings. Yeah.

2364
01:29:21,720 --> 01:29:24,320
Is everybody all in agreement ready to

2365
01:29:24,320 --> 01:29:26,520
move on?

2366
01:29:26,520 --> 01:29:29,520
Okay, consent agenda.

2367
01:29:29,520 --> 01:29:31,600
Approval of minutes, feel free to offer

2368
01:29:31,600 --> 01:29:34,600
any suggested revisions.

2369
01:29:34,600 --> 01:29:36,320
Is there a motion for the approval of

2370
01:29:36,320 --> 01:29:39,480
minutes from January 7th, January 21st,

2371
01:29:39,480 --> 01:29:45,350
February 4th, and February 18th, 2026?

2372
01:29:45,360 --> 01:29:47,080
I make a motion that we approve the

2373
01:29:47,080 --> 01:29:50,840
agenda from the four

2374
01:29:50,840 --> 01:29:51,920
um

2375
01:29:51,920 --> 01:29:53,840
dates that um

2376
01:29:53,840 --> 01:29:55,160
Want to approve the minutes rather than

2377
01:29:55,160 --> 01:29:55,720
the agenda?

2378
01:29:55,720 --> 01:29:58,080
>> Just suggested.

2379
01:29:58,080 --> 01:29:59,280
Did you want to approve the minutes

2380
01:29:59,280 --> 01:30:01,720
rather than the agenda? Oh, the minutes,

2381
01:30:01,720 --> 01:30:03,320
excuse me. Yeah.

2382
01:30:03,320 --> 01:30:04,760
You're right. Approve Approve the

2383
01:30:04,760 --> 01:30:06,000
minutes.

2384
01:30:06,000 --> 01:30:07,480
Let me start over.

2385
01:30:07,480 --> 01:30:09,800
Approve the minutes from January 7th,

2386
01:30:09,800 --> 01:30:12,960
21st, February 4th, and February 18th,

2387
01:30:12,960 --> 01:30:16,270
2026.

2388
01:30:16,280 --> 01:30:19,400
Do I have a second? I will second.

2389
01:30:19,400 --> 01:30:21,560
Motion by Tom, second by Terry, all in

2390
01:30:21,560 --> 01:30:23,680
favor. Tom, I.

2391
01:30:23,680 --> 01:30:26,600
Um So, I was not in attendance on

2392
01:30:26,600 --> 01:30:29,680
January 7th or January 21st, so I can

2393
01:30:29,680 --> 01:30:33,470
approve the February minutes.

2394
01:30:33,480 --> 01:30:37,400
Jennifer, I. All, I. Melissa, I.

2395
01:30:37,400 --> 01:30:40,200
Um motion passes.

2396
01:30:40,200 --> 01:30:42,520
Move we adjourn.

2397
01:30:42,520 --> 01:30:44,040
Second.

2398
01:30:44,040 --> 01:30:47,240
Uh motion by Paul, second by Tom, all in

2399
01:30:47,240 --> 01:30:48,440
favor.

2400
01:30:48,440 --> 01:30:51,640
Tom, I. Terry, I. Jennifer, I. All, I.

2401
01:30:51,640 --> 01:31:02,270
Melissa, I. Meeting is adjourned.

2402
01:31:02,280 --> 01:31:04,640
Second.