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Oh,

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there we go. Okay. Now we got it. Okay.

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It's 5:02 and we are here at the Canyon

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Community Center for the April 1st

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meeting of the Springdale Planning

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Commission. From the town, we have Tom

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Dansey, Nile Nile Connolly, and April

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Raddatz

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On the dais, we have Matt Fincks, Zion

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National Park representative

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Terry Krushke, myself Jennifer

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McCullough, and Kosh Bhati.

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Rich Swantson, Tom Kenniston, Melissa

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Laborde and Paul Zimmerman are out

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tonight. Kosh will be voting.

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Can I get a motion to approve tonight's

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agenda?

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I'll make a motion to approve tonight's

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agenda.

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I second. Motion by Terry, second by

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Kosh. All in favor? Terry, I. Jennifer,

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I. Kosh, I. Motion passes. Are there any

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general announcements from the town?

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Um, I have a general announcement. Um

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the town has um been recruiting for the

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director of community development

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department and we are pleased to

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announce that we have um filled that

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vacancy

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and um I'm extra thrilled to announce

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that Nile Connolly will be filling the

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position as director of community

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development. Um and so we're grateful to

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have him be willing to step up into this

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role and take that responsibility on.

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And as commissioners, you're familiar

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with Nile and know what a great job he

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does and and the value he brings to the

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town.

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Um and so we are excited to have him in

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this new role. His His Al- Although he's

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you know, been doing this this job

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pretty pretty much for the past couple

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weeks, his official first day will be

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April 8th.

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So, welcome Nile. Congratulations.

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>> Welcome. Yeah. Thank you.

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Are there any other announcements?

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Yes.

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The park has one announcement. Um so,

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uh

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there's going to be a Navy Day in the

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park on Monday, April 20th.

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Um the office of community outreach with

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the Navy is bringing some sailors from

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different programs, but most

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importantly, most excitingly, uh there

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will be a free community concert on

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Monday, April 20th at 6:00 p.m. at the

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OC Tanner. For those that have not

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attended a Navy band concert before,

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they are world-class performers, so

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highly encourage the community to come

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out and enjoy a free concert.

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Thank you. Any other announcements?

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Does anyone have any declarations of

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conflict of interest at this time?

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Okay, moving on to tonight's agenda. We

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have two non-action items.

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The first is a discussion about

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potentially introducing a requirement

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for a new permit to deal with

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construction-phase stormwater

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management. Staff contact is Nile, and

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Nile will be presenting.

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Thank you.

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So, just to introduce this again,

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uh this item continues the discussion

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that began at the last commission

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meeting.

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Uh it was proposed that the town

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investigate gateways to more effectively

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manage construction stage pollution

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impacts.

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Um so,

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uh

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pollution impacts that can arise from

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stormwater runoff from construction

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sites, uh tracking dirt on the st- out

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onto the streets, those sorts of

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impacts.

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Uh at the last meeting, there was some

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discussion about the state stormwater

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permit process, which already exists.

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And um

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on a discussion about whether the town

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should do something similar.

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Um,

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so, to carry this on,

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the staff report includes a few options

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that the commissioners may

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want to discuss this evening.

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Um,

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the discussion last time was really

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about, well, if we were to introduce a

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permit,

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uh, what sort of developments would need

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this permit, and what's the threshold?

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So, um, the various options that are

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included in the staff report for

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discussion are

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So, firstly, we could create a town

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permit that mimics the state process.

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Um,

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the second option, uh, identified is

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that the town,

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uh,

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creates a permit process

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that applies to projects which include

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land disturbance, and that's a definition that exists in the

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erosion hazard chapter, so it could be

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something that we could could use there

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as the threshold.

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The third option, uh, would be to create

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a permit process that would apply to

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projects,

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um,

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that fall under a different definition, so a a new

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definition that the commission could

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craft. Um, and that there's some

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suggested language for that in the staff

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report that you might want to look at.

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Um,

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and then, uh, the staff report also

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includes a fourth option would be which

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would be uh, not to create a permit

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process,

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a new permit process, but instead to

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strengthen the town's enforcement, um,

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abilities. So, as far as, you know,

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putting some language into the code that

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would allow

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uh, the town's code enforcement people

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to,

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um,

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take more action if if we're identifying

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uh, pollution impacts from construction

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sites.

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Um,

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so, there's a few different options. Uh,

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these are obviously not

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exhaustive, but they might be a start

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for a discussion.

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Um,

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and then there was just one other point

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that I wanted to touch on. So,

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at the last meeting, there was some

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discussion about the best management

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practices that were included in within

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the packet of different measures that

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can be used, uh,

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to manage

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uh, storm water runoff in construction sites.

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Um, there was some discussion about,

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well, you know, there there's things

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that are going to apply to some property

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some developments and others would be

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unnecessary and onerous if they were

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kind of applied to everything.

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Um,

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so, just to clarify that,

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um, staff would recommend that those

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best management practices be

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more of a a menu of good practice that

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would be ap-

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applied appropriately to individual

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sites. So, you know,

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contractors would be able to identify

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which measures would

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are necessary on their property without

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having to kind of,

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um, deploy things that are unnecessary.

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Um,

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and uh, we have

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Jor- Robert George from our streets

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department, our street superintendent

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here again this evening and he's

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available for any more technical

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questions. I'd also be happy to answer

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any questions you have.

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Does anyone have questions?

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Um,

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excuse me.

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I want to go back and

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make sure I understand sort what problem

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we're trying to solve here.

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Um the way I understand and I want to

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make sure that's sort of correct is that

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the town staff and would like to have

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more involvement in the stormwater

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management process

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which the state oversees at this point.

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Um and potentially also include projects

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that might be less than the state

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requires.

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Um

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And so in that, is it is it the intent

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that we want to leverage as much as

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possible the state infrastructure

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and not create

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separate infrastructure or separate

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reports and things that have to be done.

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Is that

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a true statement?

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Yeah, do you do you want to jump in,

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Robert, with some thoughts? Robert

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George. So, it could be handled either

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way.

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Um a lot of municipalities that are not

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an MS4, which we discussed last time,

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they kind of create their own language

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so that they're not doing exactly what

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the state does because the state has

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such a high threshold of what they

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require.

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These mini SWIPs,

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we or you can decide what can be added

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or taken away from that. And so, it

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could be as

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big as a process as you want or as

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little of a process as you want. And so,

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yes, you could go by the state

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standards,

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but there's a lot more standards to

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follow and go through going that route.

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Whereas, if we just identified it and

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did it ourselves, we don't have to be as

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strict with what the state standards

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would be.

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Um but for those projects and

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contractors that would have to meet the

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state requirements,

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um

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would we prefer to require separate

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requirements from the town?

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Um

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or or separate reports that that report

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similar data. So, the only thing that we

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would require if it was uh part of the

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state stuff like the uh residential

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neighborhoods and that that fall under

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that.

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All we're asking for is there uh an

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email with their photos of what their

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best management practices are and

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showing that they're keeping them

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updated. That's the only thing that

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we're asking for on the state side. On

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our side, if we did things less than an

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acre, we could curtail it to what we

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wanted and you would still send in pic-

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pictures, but it gives us a little more

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room to go in and uh look at a job site

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to see that they're doing those things.

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Um on the state stuff, say uh house on

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Anasazi, the town technically can't go

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in and say, "Hey, you're not doing these

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things." That's the state's prerogative

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to come in and tell them that, not us.

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Mhm. And so,

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by having this in place, there's a few

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things um if we require them to send us

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their photos and they're not doing that,

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then we can keep those photos, send them

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in to the state, and say, "Hey, they're

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not doing what they need to with the

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SWIP stuff. Here's the file showing the

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non-compliance. Do with it what you

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will."

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Now, on the stuff that's less than an

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acre, then we could step in. We as the

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town could write a non-compliance

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letter, "Hey, you're not following the

284
00:11:00,160 --> 00:11:02,600
rules of what we set.

285
00:11:02,600 --> 00:11:05,600
You need to do these things or we may do

286
00:11:05,600 --> 00:11:07,680
A, B, or C to get you in compliance with

287
00:11:07,680 --> 00:11:09,520
what we asked for you to do."

288
00:11:09,520 --> 00:11:10,760
Okay.

289
00:11:10,760 --> 00:11:13,080
So, it would be your intent that for

290
00:11:13,080 --> 00:11:15,360
those that are covered by the state, you

291
00:11:15,360 --> 00:11:17,880
might forward enforcement to the state.

292
00:11:17,880 --> 00:11:28,950
Correct.

293
00:11:28,960 --> 00:11:31,120
So, Gil asked me to mention something.

294
00:11:31,120 --> 00:11:32,920
We were talking before planning

295
00:11:32,920 --> 00:11:34,800
commission started.

296
00:11:34,800 --> 00:11:36,600
We were talking about SWIP programs and

297
00:11:36,600 --> 00:11:39,320
some of the things that he's dealt with

298
00:11:39,320 --> 00:11:41,440
in his life. And one of the things that

299
00:11:41,440 --> 00:11:43,960
I brought up was that the state

300
00:11:43,960 --> 00:11:46,040
since I've worked here since 2015 has

301
00:11:46,040 --> 00:11:49,080
only come in one time to look at these

302
00:11:49,080 --> 00:11:53,120
kinds of projects in almost 11 years.

303
00:11:53,120 --> 00:11:54,680
And that was kind of the catalyst of

304
00:11:54,680 --> 00:11:56,800
hey, maybe we need to start stepping in

305
00:11:56,800 --> 00:11:58,200
and see if we can help with this. The

306
00:11:58,200 --> 00:11:59,160
other

307
00:11:59,160 --> 00:12:01,960
reason for starting asking to start this

308
00:12:01,960 --> 00:12:04,280
is at some point the state may come to

309
00:12:04,280 --> 00:12:07,280
us and say you are going to be an MS4.

310
00:12:07,280 --> 00:12:08,880
So we've already done some of the

311
00:12:08,880 --> 00:12:10,760
legwork to get us there if that does

312
00:12:10,760 --> 00:12:12,960
happen.

313
00:12:12,960 --> 00:12:16,520
So this term MS4 you said? Yep. Means

314
00:12:16,520 --> 00:12:19,000
that the state that a community would

315
00:12:19,000 --> 00:12:20,600
take over the enforcement from the

316
00:12:20,600 --> 00:12:30,350
state. Okay. Yep.

317
00:12:30,360 --> 00:12:33,560
Other questions?

318
00:12:33,560 --> 00:12:34,880
I'm a

319
00:12:34,880 --> 00:12:36,880
comments but You have a question? Yes, I

320
00:12:36,880 --> 00:12:40,910
do. Oh, okay.

321
00:12:40,920 --> 00:12:42,480
Gil Kiefer.

322
00:12:42,480 --> 00:12:45,600
Um, it looks like this is just for or

323
00:12:45,600 --> 00:12:48,480
during the development process or

324
00:12:48,480 --> 00:12:50,839
development time.

325
00:12:50,839 --> 00:12:55,440
Why it doesn't extend to uh

326
00:12:55,440 --> 00:12:58,160
once the property is turned over or

327
00:12:58,160 --> 00:13:00,880
after it's been permitted? Why are you

328
00:13:00,880 --> 00:13:02,600
differentiating

329
00:13:02,600 --> 00:13:04,920
that time frame?

330
00:13:04,920 --> 00:13:07,760
W- Well, I'll answer that question. Or

331
00:13:07,760 --> 00:13:09,120
Yeah, go ahead. Yeah.

332
00:13:09,120 --> 00:13:10,160
I think I

333
00:13:10,160 --> 00:13:13,000
Yeah, go ahead. So within the town's

334
00:13:13,000 --> 00:13:16,560
construction standards and existing

335
00:13:16,560 --> 00:13:18,440
procedures,

336
00:13:18,440 --> 00:13:20,760
um, surface water management is dealt

337
00:13:20,760 --> 00:13:23,080
with kind of as part of the approval

338
00:13:23,080 --> 00:13:26,000
process. So the end state of

339
00:13:26,000 --> 00:13:30,120
developments um, will have drainage kind

340
00:13:30,120 --> 00:13:32,120
of designed into it.

341
00:13:32,120 --> 00:13:34,440
Um, so this is really just during the

342
00:13:34,440 --> 00:13:36,520
construction phase because the

343
00:13:36,520 --> 00:13:40,480
we already designed that in or that's

344
00:13:40,480 --> 00:13:43,200
already designed into the, um,

345
00:13:43,200 --> 00:13:45,760
projects

346
00:13:45,760 --> 00:13:48,560
already, so.

347
00:13:48,560 --> 00:13:51,040
I have a follow-up question on that.

348
00:13:51,040 --> 00:13:52,760
I was noticing in

349
00:13:52,760 --> 00:13:55,280
at least one of the examples,

350
00:13:55,280 --> 00:13:57,560
there was a monthly fee in addition to

351
00:13:57,560 --> 00:13:59,360
the permit fee.

352
00:13:59,360 --> 00:14:01,200
So was that still just during

353
00:14:01,200 --> 00:14:04,480
construction or was it more of a a

354
00:14:04,480 --> 00:14:08,160
follow-up maintenance that was ongoing?

355
00:14:08,160 --> 00:14:11,360
Cuz I thought it could be either way.

356
00:14:11,360 --> 00:14:13,080
Um, the way that I read it and

357
00:14:13,080 --> 00:14:15,520
understood it in that example is it was

358
00:14:15,520 --> 00:14:17,480
only ongoing during the construction

359
00:14:17,480 --> 00:14:18,240
process.

360
00:14:18,240 --> 00:14:19,560
>> Okay.

361
00:14:19,560 --> 00:14:22,160
Yeah, it seemed to imply it was to cover

362
00:14:22,160 --> 00:14:23,640
inspection costs and things like that.

363
00:14:23,640 --> 00:14:25,800
>> Okay.

364
00:14:25,800 --> 00:14:28,670
That's the way I read it.

365
00:14:28,680 --> 00:14:30,560
Which to me it doesn't make a whole lot

366
00:14:30,560 --> 00:14:31,839
of sense. Like why wouldn't it just be

367
00:14:31,839 --> 00:14:33,200
the fee?

368
00:14:33,200 --> 00:14:34,440
I guess it depends on how long the

369
00:14:34,440 --> 00:14:37,000
project goes on, but anyway, yeah.

370
00:14:37,000 --> 00:14:38,720
>> I mean if the town chose that particular

371
00:14:38,720 --> 00:14:39,000
direction.

372
00:14:39,000 --> 00:14:41,000
>> Yeah, sure.

373
00:14:41,000 --> 00:14:43,480
So I could kind of answer that. Um, so

374
00:14:43,480 --> 00:14:46,440
like with our encroachment process, we,

375
00:14:46,440 --> 00:14:48,160
uh, tabulate into the fee of an

376
00:14:48,160 --> 00:14:50,040
encroachment pro- process and the

377
00:14:50,040 --> 00:14:52,800
permit, um, our hours for us to do the

378
00:14:52,800 --> 00:14:55,040
paperwork in that. So I think that's

379
00:14:55,040 --> 00:14:57,200
what it was doing is on those certain

380
00:14:57,200 --> 00:14:58,600
projects there would be ongoing

381
00:14:58,600 --> 00:15:00,680
documentation and paperwork. So it was

382
00:15:00,680 --> 00:15:03,720
just a fee to keep that process going is

383
00:15:03,720 --> 00:15:05,240
what they were doing.

384
00:15:05,240 --> 00:15:13,030
Thank you.

385
00:15:13,040 --> 00:15:16,080
If there are no other questions, we can

386
00:15:16,080 --> 00:15:19,990
move into discussion.

387
00:15:20,000 --> 00:15:21,880
And I thank you for laying out these

388
00:15:21,880 --> 00:15:24,480
options so nicely.

389
00:15:24,480 --> 00:15:28,120
Um and going through them

390
00:15:28,120 --> 00:15:29,600
um

391
00:15:29,600 --> 00:15:33,560
option three

392
00:15:33,560 --> 00:15:36,200
uh was the one that resonated most with

393
00:15:36,200 --> 00:15:39,480
me because it's so clear.

394
00:15:39,480 --> 00:15:42,960
Um even though there would be some

395
00:15:42,960 --> 00:15:45,280
addition to the code

396
00:15:45,280 --> 00:15:47,600
um

397
00:15:47,600 --> 00:15:51,280
it was um easy to understand.

398
00:15:51,280 --> 00:15:53,480
And it was still proactive instead of

399
00:15:53,480 --> 00:15:56,280
being reactive and having no permit.

400
00:15:56,280 --> 00:16:01,000
You're There's There's still the permitting requirement.

401
00:16:01,000 --> 00:16:03,560
Um

402
00:16:03,560 --> 00:16:08,430
And then

403
00:16:08,440 --> 00:16:11,520
also um

404
00:16:11,520 --> 00:16:14,000
I wouldn't be a huge fan of a like the

405
00:16:14,000 --> 00:16:16,480
fees in that example. That was seemed

406
00:16:16,480 --> 00:16:17,880
like

407
00:16:17,880 --> 00:16:20,040
um

408
00:16:20,040 --> 00:16:24,310
a pretty exorbitant, I thought.

409
00:16:24,320 --> 00:16:27,120
Yeah, I believe most of our fees

410
00:16:27,120 --> 00:16:29,120
I think perhaps by law are designed to

411
00:16:29,120 --> 00:16:31,120
cover costs.

412
00:16:31,120 --> 00:16:34,200
Um and that's how a fee for this permit

413
00:16:34,200 --> 00:16:38,470
would also be calculated. Is that true?

414
00:16:38,480 --> 00:16:40,160
Yeah, I believe that's the case that

415
00:16:40,160 --> 00:16:43,000
yeah, our fees have to reflect the cost

416
00:16:43,000 --> 00:16:47,440
of this rather than be making money.

417
00:16:47,440 --> 00:16:49,000
All right. Um

418
00:16:49,000 --> 00:16:51,040
Personally, I I I kind of agree. I feel

419
00:16:51,040 --> 00:16:53,280
similar that as I read through these

420
00:16:53,280 --> 00:16:55,360
options um

421
00:16:55,360 --> 00:16:57,120
a part of me would like to be able to

422
00:16:57,120 --> 00:16:59,200
use option two for simplicity of the

423
00:16:59,200 --> 00:17:00,400
code

424
00:17:00,400 --> 00:17:02,600
um but it really

425
00:17:02,600 --> 00:17:04,560
doesn't match

426
00:17:04,560 --> 00:17:08,280
um the needs for the storm water um

427
00:17:08,280 --> 00:17:09,640
issue.

428
00:17:09,640 --> 00:17:11,079
Yeah, I kind of looked at it and said,

429
00:17:11,079 --> 00:17:13,280
"Well, in in a sense, the whole

430
00:17:13,280 --> 00:17:16,640
grading permit issue that where we've

431
00:17:16,640 --> 00:17:19,120
listed what land disturbances are is

432
00:17:19,120 --> 00:17:21,680
designed to protect people from the

433
00:17:21,680 --> 00:17:22,800
water.

434
00:17:22,800 --> 00:17:25,040
Whereas what we're talking about is

435
00:17:25,040 --> 00:17:26,720
designed to protect the water from the

436
00:17:26,720 --> 00:17:27,720
people.

437
00:17:27,720 --> 00:17:29,200
And so it's

438
00:17:29,200 --> 00:17:31,960
somewhat different. Um and so I ended up

439
00:17:31,960 --> 00:17:33,880
on three also.

440
00:17:33,880 --> 00:17:35,080
Um

441
00:17:35,080 --> 00:17:36,840
even though it does add a different

442
00:17:36,840 --> 00:17:41,200
definition to the um to the code.

443
00:17:41,200 --> 00:17:42,080
Um

444
00:17:42,080 --> 00:17:44,800
one thought I had about that might be to

445
00:17:44,800 --> 00:17:46,160
produce

446
00:17:46,160 --> 00:17:48,320
a table

447
00:17:48,320 --> 00:17:51,680
that shows the two in comparison when we

448
00:17:51,680 --> 00:17:55,560
get to that point. Um that uh you know,

449
00:17:55,560 --> 00:17:59,000
developers can use to understand well,

450
00:17:59,000 --> 00:18:01,360
what conditions apply to this permit

451
00:18:01,360 --> 00:18:03,320
versus what conditions apply to another

452
00:18:03,320 --> 00:18:04,520
permit.

453
00:18:04,520 --> 00:18:07,840
Um it might make it easier uh for

454
00:18:07,840 --> 00:18:08,920
someone sort of understand the

455
00:18:08,920 --> 00:18:10,120
difference between the two without

456
00:18:10,120 --> 00:18:12,440
having to go to two different chapters

457
00:18:12,440 --> 00:18:16,430
of the code.

458
00:18:16,440 --> 00:18:19,190
Um

459
00:18:19,200 --> 00:18:23,080
but again, yeah, I think I agree that three to me seemed like the most

460
00:18:23,080 --> 00:18:26,040
viable option. Um

461
00:18:26,040 --> 00:18:28,680
in terms of option four,

462
00:18:28,680 --> 00:18:30,800
it might not even be a land use option.

463
00:18:30,800 --> 00:18:33,760
Would that be true or would it still go

464
00:18:33,760 --> 00:18:35,520
in the

465
00:18:35,520 --> 00:18:37,760
chapter 10, you know, in our in our

466
00:18:37,760 --> 00:18:39,040
bailiwick or would it be a different

467
00:18:39,040 --> 00:18:40,440
part of the

468
00:18:40,440 --> 00:18:42,120
ordinances?

469
00:18:42,120 --> 00:18:44,680
Yeah, so at the moment there is

470
00:18:44,680 --> 00:18:47,720
something in Is it chapter three that

471
00:18:47,720 --> 00:18:50,560
deals with nuisances or title three that

472
00:18:50,560 --> 00:18:52,960
So outside of the land use ordinance

473
00:18:52,960 --> 00:18:55,720
that deals with nuisances and kind of

474
00:18:55,720 --> 00:18:59,800
pollution on a more broad level. Um so

475
00:18:59,800 --> 00:19:02,600
that's that's kind of where it sits now,

476
00:19:02,600 --> 00:19:05,040
but it's it's a little bit vague and it

477
00:19:05,040 --> 00:19:07,280
you know, maybe doesn't give us much

478
00:19:07,280 --> 00:19:08,440
teeth.

479
00:19:08,440 --> 00:19:10,280
And I think it's

480
00:19:10,280 --> 00:19:12,040
I think the benefit of potentially

481
00:19:12,040 --> 00:19:15,920
connecting it to title 10 is

482
00:19:15,920 --> 00:19:18,560
um that it kind of connects it with the

483
00:19:18,560 --> 00:19:21,920
land use planning section of the town.

484
00:19:21,920 --> 00:19:22,920
Um

485
00:19:22,920 --> 00:19:24,720
so as far as

486
00:19:24,720 --> 00:19:26,280
the department that's approving

487
00:19:26,280 --> 00:19:28,160
developments and building permits and

488
00:19:28,160 --> 00:19:30,400
doing the site inspections

489
00:19:30,400 --> 00:19:32,520
it it kind of connects those two worlds,

490
00:19:32,520 --> 00:19:34,000
so that's

491
00:19:34,000 --> 00:19:35,360
But it But it But it could live

492
00:19:35,360 --> 00:19:38,870
somewhere else, too.

493
00:19:38,880 --> 00:19:41,630
Okay.

494
00:19:41,640 --> 00:19:44,120
Do you have any thoughts, Kosh?

495
00:19:44,120 --> 00:19:46,720
I think we're on the same page.

496
00:19:46,720 --> 00:19:48,840
Option three was what I was

497
00:19:48,840 --> 00:19:50,880
But I I have some specific comments for

498
00:19:50,880 --> 00:19:52,760
option three if we want to go to that

499
00:19:52,760 --> 00:19:54,200
next step.

500
00:19:54,200 --> 00:19:55,680
Um

501
00:19:55,680 --> 00:19:59,320
so a a few comments I had um

502
00:19:59,320 --> 00:20:01,600
for preparing a small garden, which was

503
00:20:01,600 --> 00:20:03,680
one of the options, I think

504
00:20:03,680 --> 00:20:05,960
there would be clarity in giving a

505
00:20:05,960 --> 00:20:07,480
number.

506
00:20:07,480 --> 00:20:10,800
I chose 500 square feet because it's

507
00:20:10,800 --> 00:20:12,120
part of it's the number we're also

508
00:20:12,120 --> 00:20:13,200
using.

509
00:20:13,200 --> 00:20:15,960
Um but I think that way we're not

510
00:20:15,960 --> 00:20:17,560
getting into discussions about what

511
00:20:17,560 --> 00:20:19,680
constitutes a small garden versus a big

512
00:20:19,680 --> 00:20:21,040
garden.

513
00:20:21,040 --> 00:20:29,910
Um and it's clarified in the um ordinance.

514
00:20:29,920 --> 00:20:32,200
» Some additional things I might include

515
00:20:32,200 --> 00:20:34,040
in option three

516
00:20:34,040 --> 00:20:36,120
um

517
00:20:36,120 --> 00:20:39,880
we might include um any project that

518
00:20:39,880 --> 00:20:42,480
involves the delivery of pre-mixed

519
00:20:42,480 --> 00:20:44,080
concrete.

520
00:20:44,080 --> 00:20:45,680
Um one of the

521
00:20:45,680 --> 00:20:48,720
best practices was managing washout from

522
00:20:48,720 --> 00:20:50,920
concrete trucks, and so if

523
00:20:50,920 --> 00:20:51,840
you know, you're doing a small

524
00:20:51,840 --> 00:20:54,720
construction, a small patio, under 500

525
00:20:54,720 --> 00:20:56,240
square feet, but you still have a

526
00:20:56,240 --> 00:20:59,040
concrete truck come in

527
00:20:59,040 --> 00:21:01,200
it seems that that concrete washout

528
00:21:01,200 --> 00:21:04,000
issue still exists.

529
00:21:04,000 --> 00:21:06,920
So we might want to include that as a

530
00:21:06,920 --> 00:21:08,160
kind of

531
00:21:08,160 --> 00:21:10,920
project that would require this.

532
00:21:10,920 --> 00:21:12,400
Um

533
00:21:12,400 --> 00:21:15,080
another one is whether or not the uh

534
00:21:15,080 --> 00:21:17,360
project includes uh

535
00:21:17,360 --> 00:21:19,720
portable sanitary facility, like a, you

536
00:21:19,720 --> 00:21:21,680
know, a porta-potty. Because again, one

537
00:21:21,680 --> 00:21:24,280
of the requirements is staking it down.

538
00:21:24,280 --> 00:21:26,920
Um and so even if a small project

539
00:21:26,920 --> 00:21:28,960
happens to, for whatever reason, want to

540
00:21:28,960 --> 00:21:30,800
use that, then I think

541
00:21:30,800 --> 00:21:32,880
it would be important

542
00:21:32,880 --> 00:21:34,520
to verify that they've staked staked

543
00:21:34,520 --> 00:21:37,710
down.

544
00:21:37,720 --> 00:21:40,760
The last one I'm a little unsure of. Um

545
00:21:40,760 --> 00:21:41,840
and I thought about this, the

546
00:21:41,840 --> 00:21:44,400
application of pesticides, herbicides,

547
00:21:44,400 --> 00:21:46,320
fertilizer, and other kinds of

548
00:21:46,320 --> 00:21:47,560
chemicals.

549
00:21:47,560 --> 00:21:49,680
Um this would be something we'd want to

550
00:21:49,680 --> 00:21:51,920
protect our waterways from.

551
00:21:51,920 --> 00:21:53,160
Um

552
00:21:53,160 --> 00:21:55,880
but I'm not sure how to

553
00:21:55,880 --> 00:21:57,400
it seems like we'd want some kind of

554
00:21:57,400 --> 00:21:58,880
size limit, and I'm not sure how that

555
00:21:58,880 --> 00:22:00,240
would work.

556
00:22:00,240 --> 00:22:02,080
I thought, well, maybe

557
00:22:02,080 --> 00:22:03,960
if you're going to spray, you know,

558
00:22:03,960 --> 00:22:07,440
herbicides on more than 5,000 square

559
00:22:07,440 --> 00:22:08,840
feet or something.

560
00:22:08,840 --> 00:22:10,800
Um

561
00:22:10,800 --> 00:22:12,640
I don't quite know where that lies, or

562
00:22:12,640 --> 00:22:14,480
maybe something smaller. I'm not an

563
00:22:14,480 --> 00:22:16,840
expert in sort of

564
00:22:16,840 --> 00:22:18,760
how to decide.

565
00:22:18,760 --> 00:22:20,440
But it it is one of the things we're

566
00:22:20,440 --> 00:22:22,080
worried about, are these pesticides and

567
00:22:22,080 --> 00:22:24,720
fertilizers and herbicides. So maybe we

568
00:22:24,720 --> 00:22:26,520
should include that

569
00:22:26,520 --> 00:22:28,800
even in a project that is small, but

570
00:22:28,800 --> 00:22:30,720
it's going to do a significant amount of

571
00:22:30,720 --> 00:22:37,790
chemical treatment for some reason.

572
00:22:37,800 --> 00:22:39,560
Um

573
00:22:39,560 --> 00:22:40,600
so those were kind of the things that

574
00:22:40,600 --> 00:22:41,920
came to my mind that we might want to

575
00:22:41,920 --> 00:22:43,320
include.

576
00:22:43,320 --> 00:22:46,560
And I would just add to that, maybe

577
00:22:46,560 --> 00:22:50,360
defining even

578
00:22:50,360 --> 00:22:54,160
more clearly whether

579
00:22:54,160 --> 00:22:57,560
it's um like, for instance,

580
00:22:57,560 --> 00:22:59,440
it does say routine clearing of

581
00:22:59,440 --> 00:23:01,000
vegetation, debris, and other

582
00:23:01,000 --> 00:23:03,720
improvements.

583
00:23:03,720 --> 00:23:05,280
Which

584
00:23:05,280 --> 00:23:08,480
I would think that weeding

585
00:23:08,480 --> 00:23:11,720
and activity of activity of activity of

586
00:23:11,720 --> 00:23:14,200
that nature would be covered under that.

587
00:23:14,200 --> 00:23:15,640
But

588
00:23:15,640 --> 00:23:19,040
for instance trees being removed or

589
00:23:19,040 --> 00:23:20,240
um

590
00:23:20,240 --> 00:23:21,040
you know,

591
00:23:21,040 --> 00:23:23,040
more than just weeding and somehow

592
00:23:23,040 --> 00:23:24,680
define defining that a little bit more

593
00:23:24,680 --> 00:23:26,960
cuz we touched on it last time

594
00:23:26,960 --> 00:23:28,880
and we're talking about how really when

595
00:23:28,880 --> 00:23:30,920
you pull anything out of the ground as

596
00:23:30,920 --> 00:23:33,600
opposed to like spraying it for weeds or

597
00:23:33,600 --> 00:23:37,000
whatever then it is a disturbance. So

598
00:23:37,000 --> 00:23:40,960
maybe some more definition there.

599
00:23:40,960 --> 00:23:44,560
I I don't know exactly

600
00:23:44,560 --> 00:23:45,680
um

601
00:23:45,680 --> 00:23:47,760
what that would be yet, but

602
00:23:47,760 --> 00:23:49,560
>> um

603
00:23:49,560 --> 00:23:51,080
So yeah, as you're saying you pull out

604
00:23:51,080 --> 00:23:52,360
weeds, you pull out trees or you're

605
00:23:52,360 --> 00:23:54,520
doing various kinds of things.

606
00:23:54,520 --> 00:23:55,480
Um

607
00:23:55,480 --> 00:23:57,920
we might again want to have a size

608
00:23:57,920 --> 00:23:58,520
limit.

609
00:23:58,520 --> 00:24:00,520
>> Right. I mean because we're basically

610
00:24:00,520 --> 00:24:03,000
allowing people to create a garden let's

611
00:24:03,000 --> 00:24:05,240
say up to 500 square feet.

612
00:24:05,240 --> 00:24:08,160
Um that would involve pulling out weeds

613
00:24:08,160 --> 00:24:10,600
and doing fertilizer and things like

614
00:24:10,600 --> 00:24:12,040
that. So

615
00:24:12,040 --> 00:24:13,680
maybe that's the right number for these

616
00:24:13,680 --> 00:24:15,600
kinds of things. Let's say well, if

617
00:24:15,600 --> 00:24:18,080
we're going to say you can do a garden

618
00:24:18,080 --> 00:24:20,560
without having to get a permit, then

619
00:24:20,560 --> 00:24:22,560
these are the things you might do to a

620
00:24:22,560 --> 00:24:24,640
garden. So maybe again some sort of a

621
00:24:24,640 --> 00:24:26,120
size limit.

622
00:24:26,120 --> 00:24:27,280
And

623
00:24:27,280 --> 00:24:29,120
possibly I don't know how you figure out

624
00:24:29,120 --> 00:24:30,520
square footage if you're going to be

625
00:24:30,520 --> 00:24:32,400
pulling out individual trees for

626
00:24:32,400 --> 00:24:33,080
example.

627
00:24:33,080 --> 00:24:35,240
>> Right. Um but we might have to work on

628
00:24:35,240 --> 00:24:38,590
something like that.

629
00:24:38,600 --> 00:24:40,480
Um

630
00:24:40,480 --> 00:24:43,200
Again, I want to avoid you know, I want

631
00:24:43,200 --> 00:24:44,720
to you know, people who just want to go

632
00:24:44,720 --> 00:24:46,520
out and do something very small having

633
00:24:46,520 --> 00:24:48,320
to go through the process of getting a

634
00:24:48,320 --> 00:24:51,270
permit.

635
00:24:51,280 --> 00:24:54,190
Um

636
00:24:54,200 --> 00:24:56,520
Another example as I was just thinking

637
00:24:56,520 --> 00:24:57,880
about this now that's in one of the

638
00:24:57,880 --> 00:25:00,760
examples, was um

639
00:25:00,760 --> 00:25:02,680
distance from

640
00:25:02,680 --> 00:25:04,760
a waterway.

641
00:25:04,760 --> 00:25:06,280
Um

642
00:25:06,280 --> 00:25:08,960
and we might want to consider including

643
00:25:08,960 --> 00:25:10,600
how close

644
00:25:10,600 --> 00:25:12,320
to the Virgin River. Like if something

645
00:25:12,320 --> 00:25:15,200
is close enough within I think 300 ft or

646
00:25:15,200 --> 00:25:16,600
something was one of the numbers that I

647
00:25:16,600 --> 00:25:18,600
read. Um

648
00:25:18,600 --> 00:25:20,320
that maybe a smaller project that's

649
00:25:20,320 --> 00:25:24,120
close to the river may be as important

650
00:25:24,120 --> 00:25:27,240
as a larger project further away.

651
00:25:27,240 --> 00:25:31,000
That would be curious what experts might think of that. Is

652
00:25:31,000 --> 00:25:32,360
anybody here

653
00:25:32,360 --> 00:25:34,640
have a comment from from the audience on

654
00:25:34,640 --> 00:25:39,910
what that might look like?

655
00:25:39,920 --> 00:25:42,400
From the rabbit hole that I told you I

656
00:25:42,400 --> 00:25:44,680
went down last time, um

657
00:25:44,680 --> 00:25:47,160
places that did have water, they were

658
00:25:47,160 --> 00:25:49,840
more strict the closer you got to the

659
00:25:49,840 --> 00:25:52,360
body of water versus being far away from

660
00:25:52,360 --> 00:25:54,720
the water. Okay. Um I could provide more

661
00:25:54,720 --> 00:25:56,120
language

662
00:25:56,120 --> 00:25:56,720
um

663
00:25:56,720 --> 00:25:58,240
in the next for the next meeting if

664
00:25:58,240 --> 00:26:00,080
you'd like to see some of the verbage on

665
00:26:00,080 --> 00:26:02,320
some of that if you'd like.

666
00:26:02,320 --> 00:26:05,200
Well, I think that would be helpful. And

667
00:26:05,200 --> 00:26:08,200
does the same concern apply to like the

668
00:26:08,200 --> 00:26:11,720
ravines that drain

669
00:26:11,720 --> 00:26:12,520
to

670
00:26:12,520 --> 00:26:15,240
like then are dry most of the time but

671
00:26:15,240 --> 00:26:16,680
>> So,

672
00:26:16,680 --> 00:26:19,400
a lot of the verbage

673
00:26:19,400 --> 00:26:22,480
yes, ravines and stuff count but what

674
00:26:22,480 --> 00:26:25,800
most places were looking for is if

675
00:26:25,800 --> 00:26:28,760
you're changing the topography of the

676
00:26:28,760 --> 00:26:31,680
area, it's changing how the water is

677
00:26:31,680 --> 00:26:34,120
then flowing off of that property. And

678
00:26:34,120 --> 00:26:37,240
so, if you're pulling weeds or something

679
00:26:37,240 --> 00:26:39,800
and it's not necessarily changing how

680
00:26:39,800 --> 00:26:42,120
that water's running off, it's not that

681
00:26:42,120 --> 00:26:45,320
critical of an issue. Now,

682
00:26:45,320 --> 00:26:48,840
talking to Gil earlier, say you put a a

683
00:26:48,840 --> 00:26:50,760
barn or something up and it's 2 ft

684
00:26:50,760 --> 00:26:52,600
higher than what the actual ground level

685
00:26:52,600 --> 00:26:55,560
was, now the sheeting is different than

686
00:26:55,560 --> 00:26:57,360
it was before you put the barn on

687
00:26:57,360 --> 00:26:59,880
because now it's 2-ft taller, you've got

688
00:26:59,880 --> 00:27:01,920
the roof, and now it's having to sheet

689
00:27:01,920 --> 00:27:03,360
different than if it was just natural

690
00:27:03,360 --> 00:27:07,390
ground ground or land. So,

691
00:27:07,400 --> 00:27:09,440
I think every case is unique in its own

692
00:27:09,440 --> 00:27:10,360
way.

693
00:27:10,360 --> 00:27:12,480
And that's why it's so broad of language

694
00:27:12,480 --> 00:27:20,390
and so many rabbit holes.

695
00:27:20,400 --> 00:27:21,520
I guess one other comment I would make

696
00:27:21,520 --> 00:27:23,640
is is I is I agree that the best

697
00:27:23,640 --> 00:27:25,240
practices

698
00:27:25,240 --> 00:27:27,000
should be allowed to be tailored to

699
00:27:27,000 --> 00:27:30,200
various projects, um like you say.

700
00:27:30,200 --> 00:27:31,720
Um

701
00:27:31,720 --> 00:27:34,720
And for the applicant to choose.

702
00:27:34,720 --> 00:27:35,840
Um

703
00:27:35,840 --> 00:27:38,920
I assume that they would maybe maybe in

704
00:27:38,920 --> 00:27:40,600
the act of making a permit they might

705
00:27:40,600 --> 00:27:43,080
say what they plan to do, and we would

706
00:27:43,080 --> 00:27:45,320
review it as a town and agree or not

707
00:27:45,320 --> 00:27:46,400
agree?

708
00:27:46,400 --> 00:27:48,360
I I think that would be the case, yeah.

709
00:27:48,360 --> 00:27:49,840
I think

710
00:27:49,840 --> 00:27:50,720
Well,

711
00:27:50,720 --> 00:27:54,070
Sorry, Tom, what were you going to say?

712
00:27:54,080 --> 00:27:56,120
Yes, but the town needs some kind of of

713
00:27:56,120 --> 00:27:58,440
criteria to to judge whether or not the

714
00:27:58,440 --> 00:28:00,920
BMPs as proposed are are good for the

715
00:28:00,920 --> 00:28:04,040
site. If you just say, "Oh, applicant,

716
00:28:04,040 --> 00:28:06,400
propose some BMPs." And then it's like

717
00:28:06,400 --> 00:28:08,880
this black box that goes to the staff

718
00:28:08,880 --> 00:28:10,880
when when you submit your application

719
00:28:10,880 --> 00:28:12,200
and we come back and say, "Ah, we don't

720
00:28:12,200 --> 00:28:13,760
like those ones. Try again."

721
00:28:13,760 --> 00:28:16,120
And there there should be some kind of

722
00:28:16,120 --> 00:28:18,400
direction to an applicant to help design

723
00:28:18,400 --> 00:28:21,920
those BMPs at the outset. So, um my

724
00:28:21,920 --> 00:28:24,400
first thought is that

725
00:28:24,400 --> 00:28:27,440
various of the best management practices

726
00:28:27,440 --> 00:28:29,920
are aimed at various um

727
00:28:29,920 --> 00:28:34,760
kinds of um of of a a runoff. Uh you

728
00:28:34,760 --> 00:28:36,840
know, whether it's silt or whether it's,

729
00:28:36,840 --> 00:28:39,640
you know, concrete cleanout or whether

730
00:28:39,640 --> 00:28:42,520
it's chemicals or that. So,

731
00:28:42,520 --> 00:28:44,360
would a um

732
00:28:44,360 --> 00:28:48,360
direction that says BMP BMPs that that

733
00:28:48,360 --> 00:28:51,160
address the specifics of the project

734
00:28:51,160 --> 00:28:52,760
based upon what it is the project does.

735
00:28:52,760 --> 00:28:54,360
Do you know, are we grading? Are we

736
00:28:54,360 --> 00:28:57,960
concrete? Do we have concrete? Are there

737
00:28:57,960 --> 00:28:59,760
you know, construction vehicles moving

738
00:28:59,760 --> 00:29:03,280
in and out? And that the BMPs be

739
00:29:03,280 --> 00:29:05,440
um associated with the nature of the

740
00:29:05,440 --> 00:29:06,840
project. Is that Would that be

741
00:29:06,840 --> 00:29:09,480
sufficient?

742
00:29:09,480 --> 00:29:10,600
Yes. Okay.

743
00:29:10,600 --> 00:29:15,870
>> Yeah. And because as you described like

744
00:29:15,880 --> 00:29:16,920
They're they're called best management

745
00:29:16,920 --> 00:29:18,680
practices and BMPs for a reason. And

746
00:29:18,680 --> 00:29:20,440
that's because what it's what you do,

747
00:29:20,440 --> 00:29:23,840
right? If If you If you have a a slope

748
00:29:23,840 --> 00:29:24,880
that's got a lot of silt in it, you put

749
00:29:24,880 --> 00:29:26,720
up a silt a silt fence. If you have a

750
00:29:26,720 --> 00:29:28,920
place where you anticipate a lot of um

751
00:29:28,920 --> 00:29:30,160
nuisance water coming off, you put a

752
00:29:30,160 --> 00:29:31,280
straw bottle because that's what it's

753
00:29:31,280 --> 00:29:33,080
there for. So, I mean the the the

754
00:29:33,080 --> 00:29:35,280
function of the BMPs is kind of built

755
00:29:35,280 --> 00:29:36,720
into

756
00:29:36,720 --> 00:29:41,270
the the practice, right? So Right.

757
00:29:41,280 --> 00:29:43,080
Okay. So, I think I I would think we

758
00:29:43,080 --> 00:29:45,880
would want to go that way. We'd allow

759
00:29:45,880 --> 00:29:47,520
flexibility. The point is you're

760
00:29:47,520 --> 00:29:50,160
addressing the problems and choosing the

761
00:29:50,160 --> 00:29:51,840
best method to address the given

762
00:29:51,840 --> 00:29:55,240
problems of a given project, right?

763
00:29:55,240 --> 00:30:10,510
Yeah.

764
00:30:10,520 --> 00:30:12,680
So, at this point, are we in agreement

765
00:30:12,680 --> 00:30:17,750
on working with option three

766
00:30:17,760 --> 00:30:20,400
and

767
00:30:20,400 --> 00:30:22,960
the items that we discussed as far as um

768
00:30:22,960 --> 00:30:25,800
further defining different areas such as

769
00:30:25,800 --> 00:30:28,360
gardening and perhaps um removal of

770
00:30:28,360 --> 00:30:31,480
other vegetation

771
00:30:31,480 --> 00:30:34,680
and including

772
00:30:34,680 --> 00:30:37,760
um the best management practices and

773
00:30:37,760 --> 00:30:39,400
then getting the feedback from you as

774
00:30:39,400 --> 00:30:40,400
well

775
00:30:40,400 --> 00:30:43,560
to move forward on that.

776
00:30:43,560 --> 00:30:44,040
Was there anything

777
00:30:44,040 --> 00:30:46,640
>> I feel that, you know, Is that enough

778
00:30:46,640 --> 00:30:48,360
for you to go on?

779
00:30:48,360 --> 00:30:50,640
Yeah, I think so. I think we can spend

780
00:30:50,640 --> 00:30:53,000
some time refining that option and

781
00:30:53,000 --> 00:30:54,440
coming

782
00:30:54,440 --> 00:30:57,800
putting together some of that detail um

783
00:30:57,800 --> 00:30:59,800
that you've given us feedback on. So,

784
00:30:59,800 --> 00:31:02,680
yeah. Okay.

785
00:31:02,680 --> 00:31:03,960
>> Take this to a future meeting, then.

786
00:31:03,960 --> 00:31:06,120
>> Yeah, to a future meeting.

787
00:31:06,120 --> 00:31:07,560
Okay.

788
00:31:07,560 --> 00:31:08,440
Thank you very much.

789
00:31:08,440 --> 00:31:09,160
>> Yeah, thank you.

790
00:31:09,160 --> 00:31:10,640
>> Thank you.

791
00:31:10,640 --> 00:31:13,040
And moving on to the second non-action

792
00:31:13,040 --> 00:31:15,680
item, is a discussion about a potential

793
00:31:15,680 --> 00:31:17,680
revision to the town's

794
00:31:17,680 --> 00:31:20,480
parking standards. Staff contact is Tom

795
00:31:20,480 --> 00:31:24,590
Dansey. Tom is presenting.

796
00:31:24,600 --> 00:31:27,000
Um this is an item that's been on the

797
00:31:27,000 --> 00:31:29,000
Planning Commission's priority list for

798
00:31:29,000 --> 00:31:32,480
a while. It's an also an item that um we

799
00:31:32,480 --> 00:31:34,400
kind of point to in our general plan in

800
00:31:34,400 --> 00:31:36,280
several locations.

801
00:31:36,280 --> 00:31:38,080
Um and it's also an item that has been

802
00:31:38,080 --> 00:31:40,520
gaining speed and and gaining traction

803
00:31:40,520 --> 00:31:42,960
with um municipalities and and local

804
00:31:42,960 --> 00:31:47,000
governments across the country. And the item is the super exciting topic of

805
00:31:47,000 --> 00:31:48,800
parking reform.

806
00:31:48,800 --> 00:31:49,640
Um

807
00:31:49,640 --> 00:31:51,600
so, I'm glad that we've got a a a packed

808
00:31:51,600 --> 00:31:53,440
house here tonight to talk about parking

809
00:31:53,440 --> 00:31:56,000
reform because

810
00:31:56,000 --> 00:31:57,440
this is awesome.

811
00:31:57,440 --> 00:32:01,120
Um so, in the staff report, I I I kind

812
00:32:01,120 --> 00:32:03,400
of outlined the kind of the history of

813
00:32:03,400 --> 00:32:07,160
why we have parking standards, some some

814
00:32:07,160 --> 00:32:08,640
perks of

815
00:32:08,640 --> 00:32:10,680
that practice of parking standards and

816
00:32:10,680 --> 00:32:12,120
parking minimums.

817
00:32:12,120 --> 00:32:14,120
Um and then there's some potential

818
00:32:14,120 --> 00:32:15,440
specific considerations which we'll

819
00:32:15,440 --> 00:32:17,440
explain now.

820
00:32:17,440 --> 00:32:21,710
I I wanted to just kind of

821
00:32:21,720 --> 00:32:23,880
hit on those again really quickly, not

822
00:32:23,880 --> 00:32:25,680
to not to repeat what's in the staff

823
00:32:25,680 --> 00:32:27,160
report, but just just so that we're on

824
00:32:27,160 --> 00:32:28,400
the same page.

825
00:32:28,400 --> 00:32:29,520
And I did something on the display

826
00:32:29,520 --> 00:32:32,400
computer. I don't know what.

827
00:32:32,400 --> 00:32:34,080
I'm sorry.

828
00:32:34,080 --> 00:32:36,840
Now, can you fix it? I did.

829
00:32:36,840 --> 00:32:39,400
Thanks.

830
00:32:39,400 --> 00:32:41,520
Um

831
00:32:41,520 --> 00:32:45,040
Okay. So, just just by by way of of

832
00:32:45,040 --> 00:32:47,920
again of of introduction to the the

833
00:32:47,920 --> 00:32:50,320
history of parking standards really came

834
00:32:50,320 --> 00:32:51,640
from

835
00:32:51,640 --> 00:32:52,880
um

836
00:32:52,880 --> 00:32:55,680
the kind of automobile boom of the of

837
00:32:55,680 --> 00:32:58,960
the 1940s, 1950s, 1960s, and the idea

838
00:32:58,960 --> 00:33:00,320
was, "Oh my goodness, we have all these

839
00:33:00,320 --> 00:33:01,920
people driving around in cars now, and

840
00:33:01,920 --> 00:33:03,400
they used to drive they used to get

841
00:33:03,400 --> 00:33:06,800
where they needed to go on foot or on on

842
00:33:06,800 --> 00:33:08,360
the bus or streetcar, and and now

843
00:33:08,360 --> 00:33:12,160
everybody's driving, and the urban form

844
00:33:12,160 --> 00:33:14,080
that existed

845
00:33:14,080 --> 00:33:16,000
did did not um

846
00:33:16,000 --> 00:33:18,880
support that tran- that that uh that

847
00:33:18,880 --> 00:33:21,360
transition in travel patterns. There was

848
00:33:21,360 --> 00:33:22,600
no place for for people to park all

849
00:33:22,600 --> 00:33:24,200
these automobiles. And so, planners

850
00:33:24,200 --> 00:33:25,880
said, "Oh my goodness, what do we do?

851
00:33:25,880 --> 00:33:27,440
Let's make sure that everybody when they

852
00:33:27,440 --> 00:33:28,960
build a new when when they build

853
00:33:28,960 --> 00:33:30,320
something new, they provide parking

854
00:33:30,320 --> 00:33:32,720
places for all these new automobiles."

855
00:33:32,720 --> 00:33:34,600
Um [snorts] and so, that's that's what

856
00:33:34,600 --> 00:33:36,000
municipalities all across the country

857
00:33:36,000 --> 00:33:37,480
started to do.

858
00:33:37,480 --> 00:33:39,600
Um and it it it proved to be a little

859
00:33:39,600 --> 00:33:41,800
bit of a difficult thing to predict how

860
00:33:41,800 --> 00:33:43,800
much parking was required at different

861
00:33:43,800 --> 00:33:44,920
uses.

862
00:33:44,920 --> 00:33:46,200
Um and so, the Institute of

863
00:33:46,200 --> 00:33:48,320
Transportation Engineers,

864
00:33:48,320 --> 00:33:49,640
um some really smart people that that

865
00:33:49,640 --> 00:33:50,800
study

866
00:33:50,800 --> 00:33:52,200
these these transportation issues said,

867
00:33:52,200 --> 00:33:54,640
"Hey, we've got a manual for that. Let's

868
00:33:54,640 --> 00:33:56,920
uh let let's let's let's let's tell you

869
00:33:56,920 --> 00:33:58,440
what it is." And so, they did some

870
00:33:58,440 --> 00:34:00,120
studies and some analyses and and put

871
00:34:00,120 --> 00:34:02,720
together a big manual that says, "Here's

872
00:34:02,720 --> 00:34:04,040
here's everything you ever wanted to

873
00:34:04,040 --> 00:34:06,000
know about parking, but were afraid to

874
00:34:06,000 --> 00:34:08,879
ask. Planners use this."

875
00:34:08,879 --> 00:34:11,320
And um so so, planners have been using

876
00:34:11,320 --> 00:34:14,520
that manual ever since to say, "Hey, if

877
00:34:14,520 --> 00:34:16,639
you have a retail establishment of X

878
00:34:16,639 --> 00:34:19,639
square feet, it requires X number of

879
00:34:19,639 --> 00:34:21,320
parking spaces."

880
00:34:21,320 --> 00:34:23,320
Um and

881
00:34:23,320 --> 00:34:24,040
um

882
00:34:24,040 --> 00:34:27,000
planners are are inherently um

883
00:34:27,000 --> 00:34:28,520
I don't I don't want to say lazy. I'm

884
00:34:28,520 --> 00:34:30,478
going to say

885
00:34:30,478 --> 00:34:32,399
>> [laughter]

886
00:34:32,399 --> 00:34:34,040
>> So, So, than than coming up with with

887
00:34:34,040 --> 00:34:35,760
these standards on on our own, we just

888
00:34:35,760 --> 00:34:37,240
say, "Hey, what what's what's our

889
00:34:37,240 --> 00:34:38,800
neighboring jurisdiction doing for how

890
00:34:38,800 --> 00:34:40,240
much parking is required at a theater?

891
00:34:40,240 --> 00:34:42,240
Let's just use that." And that's what

892
00:34:42,240 --> 00:34:44,080
planners have done for the past 30 years

893
00:34:44,080 --> 00:34:45,760
is is copied and pasted these these

894
00:34:45,760 --> 00:34:47,320
parking standards.

895
00:34:47,320 --> 00:34:49,440
Um and and so now they're they're fairly

896
00:34:49,440 --> 00:34:51,120
uniform and fairly standardized across

897
00:34:51,120 --> 00:34:52,639
the country.

898
00:34:52,639 --> 00:34:54,240
Um so, that's that's how we kind of got

899
00:34:54,240 --> 00:34:56,320
to where we are now.

900
00:34:56,320 --> 00:34:58,480
Recently, there's been there's been some

901
00:34:58,480 --> 00:35:01,120
research put into the impacts that these

902
00:35:01,120 --> 00:35:04,080
parking standards have had on

903
00:35:04,080 --> 00:35:04,840
um

904
00:35:04,840 --> 00:35:07,760
planning and and uh the development of

905
00:35:07,760 --> 00:35:09,240
cities and towns.

906
00:35:09,240 --> 00:35:11,320
Um and some of those crit- crit-

907
00:35:11,320 --> 00:35:12,800
critiques or some of that research

908
00:35:12,800 --> 00:35:14,120
points to some problems or some

909
00:35:14,120 --> 00:35:17,520
critiques. And and one is that

910
00:35:17,520 --> 00:35:19,880
by providing all these parking spaces

911
00:35:19,880 --> 00:35:21,320
for cars,

912
00:35:21,320 --> 00:35:24,440
um we've not only accommodated the

913
00:35:24,440 --> 00:35:27,240
automobile automobile automobile boom of

914
00:35:27,240 --> 00:35:29,200
the '40s and '50s, we've actually

915
00:35:29,200 --> 00:35:32,360
perpetuated that and encouraged

916
00:35:32,360 --> 00:35:34,800
um automobile travel to the detriment of

917
00:35:34,800 --> 00:35:37,000
these other forms of walking and biking

918
00:35:37,000 --> 00:35:39,560
and transit. So, now the default mode of

919
00:35:39,560 --> 00:35:41,800
transportation is

920
00:35:41,800 --> 00:35:44,640
driving, whereas

921
00:35:44,640 --> 00:35:47,080
60 years ago, the default mode was not

922
00:35:47,080 --> 00:35:49,160
driving, was something else. But parking

923
00:35:49,160 --> 00:35:51,480
the the the um

924
00:35:51,480 --> 00:35:55,360
the assertion is that parking standards

925
00:35:55,360 --> 00:35:57,120
have been a key factor in that

926
00:35:57,120 --> 00:35:58,480
transition.

927
00:35:58,480 --> 00:36:00,280
And if we want to get back to

928
00:36:00,280 --> 00:36:03,720
encouraging walking, biking, transit, um

929
00:36:03,720 --> 00:36:06,080
one of the ways to do that is to curtail

930
00:36:06,080 --> 00:36:08,000
parking by making it

931
00:36:08,000 --> 00:36:10,160
less convenient or or less less

932
00:36:10,160 --> 00:36:11,760
appealing for people to drive their

933
00:36:11,760 --> 00:36:12,880
cars.

934
00:36:12,880 --> 00:36:14,440
Um so, that's that's one that's one

935
00:36:14,440 --> 00:36:16,640
critique. Um the other critique or or

936
00:36:16,640 --> 00:36:18,840
another critique is that because

937
00:36:18,840 --> 00:36:20,120
planners have just kind of copied and

938
00:36:20,120 --> 00:36:23,760
pasted these parking standards over and over again, they

939
00:36:23,760 --> 00:36:28,200
probably don't bear any real justifiable

940
00:36:28,200 --> 00:36:30,640
relationship to the actual parking

941
00:36:30,640 --> 00:36:33,320
demand at an individual property.

942
00:36:33,320 --> 00:36:36,880
Um maybe at one point the the um

943
00:36:36,880 --> 00:36:39,160
ITE's manual on parking generation was

944
00:36:39,160 --> 00:36:41,040
it was a good standard, but because it's

945
00:36:41,040 --> 00:36:43,040
been copied and pasted from cities large

946
00:36:43,040 --> 00:36:44,760
cities to small cities to urban cities

947
00:36:44,760 --> 00:36:48,880
with all sorts of different needs, those parking standards are fairly

948
00:36:48,880 --> 00:36:51,400
uniform and they may not actually

949
00:36:51,400 --> 00:36:53,800
reflect what the parking demand at any

950
00:36:53,800 --> 00:36:56,120
given property is. And so, it's kind of

951
00:36:56,120 --> 00:36:57,720
an arbitrary number that we're throwing

952
00:36:57,720 --> 00:36:58,960
out there.

953
00:36:58,960 --> 00:37:00,680
Um

954
00:37:00,680 --> 00:37:02,640
and the the third critique that I raise

955
00:37:02,640 --> 00:37:05,280
in the in the in the staff report is um

956
00:37:05,280 --> 00:37:09,400
these parking minimums are inherently um

957
00:37:09,400 --> 00:37:12,040
designed to provide peak parking. So,

958
00:37:12,040 --> 00:37:13,440
that we're saying, "What is the What

959
00:37:13,440 --> 00:37:14,840
What's the most number of people that

960
00:37:14,840 --> 00:37:17,480
could need a parking space here at the

961
00:37:17,480 --> 00:37:19,320
busiest time? Let's make sure everybody

962
00:37:19,320 --> 00:37:21,560
has a parking space." Which is great on

963
00:37:21,560 --> 00:37:23,120
Black Friday when you're going shopping

964
00:37:23,120 --> 00:37:24,760
and you want someplace to to park your

965
00:37:24,760 --> 00:37:26,200
car,

966
00:37:26,200 --> 00:37:30,360
but the other 364 days of the year when

967
00:37:30,360 --> 00:37:33,200
you go to the mall, you'll look around

968
00:37:33,200 --> 00:37:35,440
and you'll see see that

969
00:37:35,440 --> 00:37:38,520
60 70% of the parking is is vacant um

970
00:37:38,520 --> 00:37:40,560
because they're designed for peak

971
00:37:40,560 --> 00:37:42,920
parking periods. That leads to

972
00:37:42,920 --> 00:37:44,840
inefficient use of land. What What are

973
00:37:44,840 --> 00:37:47,320
we sacrificing with that property that's

974
00:37:47,320 --> 00:37:49,480
devoted to parking

975
00:37:49,480 --> 00:37:52,160
um that could be used for some other

976
00:37:52,160 --> 00:37:54,200
beneficial purpose. It also has

977
00:37:54,200 --> 00:37:56,320
associated environmental impacts of

978
00:37:56,320 --> 00:37:59,920
increased storm water runoff um and uh

979
00:37:59,920 --> 00:38:02,800
increased heat island impacts and also

980
00:38:02,800 --> 00:38:05,320
um impacts on urban character or or town

981
00:38:05,320 --> 00:38:07,200
in our case town character and and town

982
00:38:07,200 --> 00:38:08,880
appearance. So, those those are some of

983
00:38:08,880 --> 00:38:10,760
the critiques.

984
00:38:10,760 --> 00:38:12,080
Um

985
00:38:12,080 --> 00:38:14,880
so, the the what what communities across

986
00:38:14,880 --> 00:38:16,080
the country have been doing is

987
00:38:16,080 --> 00:38:19,280
rethinking parking and saying, "Do we Do

988
00:38:19,280 --> 00:38:21,160
we want to be in the business of telling

989
00:38:21,160 --> 00:38:23,400
uh property developer how much parking

990
00:38:23,400 --> 00:38:25,400
they need to supply, or should we let

991
00:38:25,400 --> 00:38:27,080
that be a market-based decision?

992
00:38:27,080 --> 00:38:28,920
Somebody comes and and develops their

993
00:38:28,920 --> 00:38:32,000
property, and um

994
00:38:32,000 --> 00:38:33,440
should the government tell them how much

995
00:38:33,440 --> 00:38:35,400
parking they need, or should that be a

996
00:38:35,400 --> 00:38:37,720
calculated business decision

997
00:38:37,720 --> 00:38:38,640
um

998
00:38:38,640 --> 00:38:40,960
that the property owner makes? I can

999
00:38:40,960 --> 00:38:42,480
devote this much to parking, or this

1000
00:38:42,480 --> 00:38:44,040
much to building space, or this much to

1001
00:38:44,040 --> 00:38:46,880
landscape, and and and should that be

1002
00:38:46,880 --> 00:38:48,240
left to the property owner rather than

1003
00:38:48,240 --> 00:38:50,880
being mandated by the the

1004
00:38:50,880 --> 00:38:54,360
government? And a lot of a lot of um

1005
00:38:54,360 --> 00:38:55,440
municipalities have said, "Yeah, that's

1006
00:38:55,440 --> 00:38:56,760
not something that we as a government

1007
00:38:56,760 --> 00:38:57,840
need to get in the middle of." And so,

1008
00:38:57,840 --> 00:39:00,160
they've been repealing those parking

1009
00:39:00,160 --> 00:39:03,680
minimums, or drastically reducing them.

1010
00:39:03,680 --> 00:39:04,800
In fact, some have gone so far as

1011
00:39:04,800 --> 00:39:06,040
saying, "We're going to put in a park

1012
00:39:06,040 --> 00:39:07,680
parking maximum."

1013
00:39:07,680 --> 00:39:09,560
Um you can't have more than X number of

1014
00:39:09,560 --> 00:39:11,000
parking spaces for this type of

1015
00:39:11,000 --> 00:39:13,440
development. Um

1016
00:39:13,440 --> 00:39:15,640
So, the question then is is this

1017
00:39:15,640 --> 00:39:17,760
something that is applicable in

1018
00:39:17,760 --> 00:39:19,120
Springdale? Is this something that we

1019
00:39:19,120 --> 00:39:21,240
think is is worth exploring? Is this

1020
00:39:21,240 --> 00:39:24,280
something that that is a problem? Um

1021
00:39:24,280 --> 00:39:27,240
By by looking at parking, do we see that

1022
00:39:27,240 --> 00:39:28,640
we could accomplish the goals of our

1023
00:39:28,640 --> 00:39:30,800
general plan more effectively? That's a

1024
00:39:30,800 --> 00:39:32,080
that's that's essentially what the

1025
00:39:32,080 --> 00:39:34,440
discussion is tonight.

1026
00:39:34,440 --> 00:39:36,120
Um before we get to that, just a a

1027
00:39:36,120 --> 00:39:39,640
couple of of comments. Um

1028
00:39:39,640 --> 00:39:41,440
One is that Springdale is obviously

1029
00:39:41,440 --> 00:39:44,600
super unique um and and in the fact that

1030
00:39:44,600 --> 00:39:47,120
we um have businesses that provide

1031
00:39:47,120 --> 00:39:49,440
parking for their patrons.

1032
00:39:49,440 --> 00:39:52,520
And as a town and as a community, we

1033
00:39:52,520 --> 00:39:55,960
also provide parking for the majority of

1034
00:39:55,960 --> 00:39:58,160
visitors that go to that the drive to

1035
00:39:58,160 --> 00:39:59,960
Zion National Park.

1036
00:39:59,960 --> 00:40:02,360
Um

1037
00:40:02,360 --> 00:40:04,280
Obviously, those are two very different

1038
00:40:04,280 --> 00:40:07,320
things. The the parking demanded by

1039
00:40:07,320 --> 00:40:09,880
patrons of individual businesses, and

1040
00:40:09,880 --> 00:40:12,320
the parking necessary or demanded by

1041
00:40:12,320 --> 00:40:15,200
visitors to the park.

1042
00:40:15,200 --> 00:40:17,800
But what this report is focusing on is

1043
00:40:17,800 --> 00:40:20,720
the parking at individual

1044
00:40:20,720 --> 00:40:22,960
properties for the patrons of that

1045
00:40:22,960 --> 00:40:24,280
property.

1046
00:40:24,280 --> 00:40:27,320
The the the the issue of I mean anybody

1047
00:40:27,320 --> 00:40:28,600
who is in town in the past couple of

1048
00:40:28,600 --> 00:40:32,120
days knows that parking for visitors to

1049
00:40:32,120 --> 00:40:34,120
Zion National Park continues to be an

1050
00:40:34,120 --> 00:40:35,600
issue, continues to be a problem,

1051
00:40:35,600 --> 00:40:36,800
continues to be something that we need

1052
00:40:36,800 --> 00:40:38,960
to to deal with and to manage. That's

1053
00:40:38,960 --> 00:40:40,840
not what we're talking about here. What

1054
00:40:40,840 --> 00:40:43,240
we're talking about is at restaurant A

1055
00:40:43,240 --> 00:40:45,560
or gift shop B, how much parking should

1056
00:40:45,560 --> 00:40:48,040
that property be required to provide for

1057
00:40:48,040 --> 00:40:50,360
the patrons of that property. So, making

1058
00:40:50,360 --> 00:40:52,000
that distinction.

1059
00:40:52,000 --> 00:40:53,720
Um

1060
00:40:53,720 --> 00:40:56,200
then the the other uh thing to to note

1061
00:40:56,200 --> 00:40:58,160
is um we have received one public

1062
00:40:58,160 --> 00:41:01,720
comment letter on on this um

1063
00:41:01,720 --> 00:41:03,160
issue and that's been distributed to the

1064
00:41:03,160 --> 00:41:04,160
commission.

1065
00:41:04,160 --> 00:41:06,520
Um also uh Commissioner Kesten, who is

1066
00:41:06,520 --> 00:41:07,960
not here tonight, he also has some

1067
00:41:07,960 --> 00:41:09,760
policies and comments that he

1068
00:41:09,760 --> 00:41:11,560
distributed as well.

1069
00:41:11,560 --> 00:41:13,520
And hopefully you all had a chance to to

1070
00:41:13,520 --> 00:41:15,560
see that. If not, we can bring those up

1071
00:41:15,560 --> 00:41:17,400
on the screen. We have a a copy of his

1072
00:41:17,400 --> 00:41:18,840
comments up on the screen that we can

1073
00:41:18,840 --> 00:41:21,040
reference as well.

1074
00:41:21,040 --> 00:41:23,440
So, with that introduction, uh what what

1075
00:41:23,440 --> 00:41:25,240
is the action of the Planning Commission

1076
00:41:25,240 --> 00:41:26,760
tonight? Well, tonight we're not trying

1077
00:41:26,760 --> 00:41:28,960
to solve anything. We it's we have far

1078
00:41:28,960 --> 00:41:30,360
too little time for us to solve

1079
00:41:30,360 --> 00:41:32,840
Springdale's parking problems in the in

1080
00:41:32,840 --> 00:41:36,280
the time we have tonight. Um but what I would suggest the commission

1081
00:41:36,280 --> 00:41:38,640
should do is just discuss this idea of

1082
00:41:38,640 --> 00:41:40,560
parking reform. Is this something that

1083
00:41:40,560 --> 00:41:42,520
resonates with the commission? Um is

1084
00:41:42,520 --> 00:41:43,920
that something you pointed to in our

1085
00:41:43,920 --> 00:41:45,640
general plan?

1086
00:41:45,640 --> 00:41:47,440
Um that doesn't mean that we're mandated

1087
00:41:47,440 --> 00:41:49,400
to do it if it doesn't make sense. So,

1088
00:41:49,400 --> 00:41:50,360
have a discussion amongst the

1089
00:41:50,360 --> 00:41:51,720
commission, does this make sense? Is

1090
00:41:51,720 --> 00:41:53,680
this something you want to pursue? If

1091
00:41:53,680 --> 00:41:56,040
not, no further action is necessary and

1092
00:41:56,040 --> 00:41:57,600
we move on to the next item on item on

1093
00:41:57,600 --> 00:41:59,240
your priority list.

1094
00:41:59,240 --> 00:42:01,960
If as a commission you say, "No, this is something that we'd like to

1095
00:42:01,960 --> 00:42:04,120
research." then the action for you

1096
00:42:04,120 --> 00:42:05,680
tonight is not to solve it, but to but

1097
00:42:05,680 --> 00:42:07,520
to lay out a course of action. And the

1098
00:42:07,520 --> 00:42:08,920
staff report recommends a couple of

1099
00:42:08,920 --> 00:42:10,880
things that you could do. You could

1100
00:42:10,880 --> 00:42:13,080
appoint a small working group to work on

1101
00:42:13,080 --> 00:42:15,360
this and that could be um

1102
00:42:15,360 --> 00:42:17,360
commissioners, staff, residents,

1103
00:42:17,360 --> 00:42:20,120
business owners, all working together to

1104
00:42:20,120 --> 00:42:21,760
analyze these issues.

1105
00:42:21,760 --> 00:42:23,600
You could give staff direction to do

1106
00:42:23,600 --> 00:42:25,320
additional research and bring me back

1107
00:42:25,320 --> 00:42:27,360
more information and we'd be happy to do

1108
00:42:27,360 --> 00:42:29,040
that in a program in the future work

1109
00:42:29,040 --> 00:42:29,960
meeting.

1110
00:42:29,960 --> 00:42:32,600
Or you could take any other action

1111
00:42:32,600 --> 00:42:34,320
course of action that you wanted to to

1112
00:42:34,320 --> 00:42:36,640
pursue this this item. So, that's what I

1113
00:42:36,640 --> 00:42:37,880
would recommend you do tonight is have a

1114
00:42:37,880 --> 00:42:40,280
general discussion and then plan a plot

1115
00:42:40,280 --> 00:42:43,200
out a course of action.

1116
00:42:43,200 --> 00:42:44,160
Are there any questions that I can

1117
00:42:44,160 --> 00:42:47,160
answer before you start your discussion?

1118
00:42:47,160 --> 00:42:49,880
So, the the existing Springdale

1119
00:42:49,880 --> 00:42:51,520
ordinance on

1120
00:42:51,520 --> 00:42:53,440
parking minimums

1121
00:42:53,440 --> 00:42:55,600
is is that are the numbers in the

1122
00:42:55,600 --> 00:42:56,920
ordinance

1123
00:42:56,920 --> 00:42:58,920
from this book that you've talked about

1124
00:42:58,920 --> 00:43:02,160
from the engineers? Is that where we

1125
00:43:02,160 --> 00:43:03,680
have the num where the numbers that we

1126
00:43:03,680 --> 00:43:05,640
have today came from? No, Brett, that's

1127
00:43:05,640 --> 00:43:07,920
a great question. So,

1128
00:43:07,920 --> 00:43:09,840
many years ago we had numbers in our in

1129
00:43:09,840 --> 00:43:12,560
our our ordinance and I don't know where

1130
00:43:12,560 --> 00:43:14,280
they came from.

1131
00:43:14,280 --> 00:43:17,720
About I don't know 10 12 years ago we

1132
00:43:17,720 --> 00:43:20,440
actually looked at at this issue again

1133
00:43:20,440 --> 00:43:21,840
or or or

1134
00:43:21,840 --> 00:43:24,440
initially and decided that yeah, these

1135
00:43:24,440 --> 00:43:25,680
numbers that we have in our ordinance

1136
00:43:25,680 --> 00:43:29,640
don't match what Springdale's parking actually looks

1137
00:43:29,640 --> 00:43:34,560
like. And so, we actually went out and did our own counts of parking and

1138
00:43:34,560 --> 00:43:37,720
analyses of different land uses and and

1139
00:43:37,720 --> 00:43:39,760
tweaked some and revised some, left some

1140
00:43:39,760 --> 00:43:40,920
the same.

1141
00:43:40,920 --> 00:43:43,200
And so, I don't know initially where

1142
00:43:43,200 --> 00:43:44,920
they where they came from. I'm assuming

1143
00:43:44,920 --> 00:43:46,720
that it was from the ITE trip trip

1144
00:43:46,720 --> 00:43:48,880
generation manual as it had been

1145
00:43:48,880 --> 00:43:50,280
filtered through maybe several other

1146
00:43:50,280 --> 00:43:52,160
communities before it time got got to

1147
00:43:52,160 --> 00:43:54,000
Springdale. But then we additionally

1148
00:43:54,000 --> 00:43:56,200
went and did some Springdale specific

1149
00:43:56,200 --> 00:43:58,920
analysis that adjusted those parking

1150
00:43:58,920 --> 00:44:01,000
standards a little bit.

1151
00:44:01,000 --> 00:44:03,120
So, this analysis was you said about 10

1152
00:44:03,120 --> 00:44:05,640
years ago? I can't remember. It It yeah,

1153
00:44:05,640 --> 00:44:09,320
10 10 12 years ago ish. Okay.

1154
00:44:09,320 --> 00:44:10,960
So,

1155
00:44:10,960 --> 00:44:12,360
Go ahead. Just jump off that for a

1156
00:44:12,360 --> 00:44:13,640
second.

1157
00:44:13,640 --> 00:44:15,720
So, today

1158
00:44:15,720 --> 00:44:18,560
is there identification of over

1159
00:44:18,560 --> 00:44:21,280
abundance of parking or not enough at

1160
00:44:21,280 --> 00:44:24,440
any particular business or cumulative of

1161
00:44:24,440 --> 00:44:29,310
all the businesses?

1162
00:44:29,320 --> 00:44:31,520
So, we we like I like I mentioned to you

1163
00:44:31,520 --> 00:44:33,280
we did that analysis a number of years

1164
00:44:33,280 --> 00:44:35,520
ago. We have not we've not updated that

1165
00:44:35,520 --> 00:44:40,240
analysis. Okay. And so, that could be a key piece of of action if you wanted

1166
00:44:40,240 --> 00:44:41,680
to pursue this to say, "Let's let's

1167
00:44:41,680 --> 00:44:42,880
update that and see where we are

1168
00:44:42,880 --> 00:44:45,320
currently. See see what our parking

1169
00:44:45,320 --> 00:44:46,960
looks like." Certainly, if you you know,

1170
00:44:46,960 --> 00:44:48,440
just anecdotally if you drive around

1171
00:44:48,440 --> 00:44:51,480
town, there are um properties that have

1172
00:44:51,480 --> 00:44:53,360
full parking lots

1173
00:44:53,360 --> 00:44:54,680
all the time.

1174
00:44:54,680 --> 00:44:56,880
And there are properties that have

1175
00:44:56,880 --> 00:44:58,400
largely vacant properties lots of the

1176
00:44:58,400 --> 00:45:00,400
time. But, we could we could that's just

1177
00:45:00,400 --> 00:45:02,200
anecdotal. We could we could go through

1178
00:45:02,200 --> 00:45:03,960
and do a more detailed parking count and

1179
00:45:03,960 --> 00:45:05,360
parking analysis and bring that back to

1180
00:45:05,360 --> 00:45:07,040
you.

1181
00:45:07,040 --> 00:45:08,320
I think

1182
00:45:08,320 --> 00:45:11,800
you know, you my gut feel is that

1183
00:45:11,800 --> 00:45:13,160
I need we need to understand if there's

1184
00:45:13,160 --> 00:45:15,920
a problem to solve or not.

1185
00:45:15,920 --> 00:45:20,000
And my general feeling myself the

1186
00:45:20,000 --> 00:45:22,760
driving around town or having to park or

1187
00:45:22,760 --> 00:45:24,520
bringing my 95-year-old mother-in-law

1188
00:45:24,520 --> 00:45:26,640
and trying to find a place to park and

1189
00:45:26,640 --> 00:45:28,640
all of the various issues is that

1190
00:45:28,640 --> 00:45:31,880
overall given the stress we have on our

1191
00:45:31,880 --> 00:45:33,480
parking systems, I think we do a pretty

1192
00:45:33,480 --> 00:45:35,520
good job. There's things that could be

1193
00:45:35,520 --> 00:45:37,080
done and like you said, there's a whole

1194
00:45:37,080 --> 00:45:41,800
where do all the park visitors park? Um

1195
00:45:41,800 --> 00:45:43,920
and so, I I think that if we're going to

1196
00:45:43,920 --> 00:45:45,240
do something

1197
00:45:45,240 --> 00:45:47,000
we would want to do something that

1198
00:45:47,000 --> 00:45:49,680
solves a Springdale problem, not

1199
00:45:49,680 --> 00:45:52,800
something that solves some other problem

1200
00:45:52,800 --> 00:45:56,400
or some you know, generalized problem.

1201
00:45:56,400 --> 00:45:58,120
Um

1202
00:45:58,120 --> 00:46:00,440
and so, I would

1203
00:46:00,440 --> 00:46:01,720
be curious

1204
00:46:01,720 --> 00:46:05,800
what the what type of analysis was done

1205
00:46:05,800 --> 00:46:08,320
and whether that makes sense to do the

1206
00:46:08,320 --> 00:46:12,360
same analysis again or possibly adjust

1207
00:46:12,360 --> 00:46:14,520
an analysis we would do

1208
00:46:14,520 --> 00:46:16,240
to understand

1209
00:46:16,240 --> 00:46:18,120
what kind of problems, if we have, what

1210
00:46:18,120 --> 00:46:19,400
they are and

1211
00:46:19,400 --> 00:46:20,720
that would help us understand what we

1212
00:46:20,720 --> 00:46:22,360
would do to solve them.

1213
00:46:22,360 --> 00:46:24,480
Um

1214
00:46:24,480 --> 00:46:25,960
Can Can I tell you what the analysis was

1215
00:46:25,960 --> 00:46:28,080
that was done previously? Yeah.

1216
00:46:28,080 --> 00:46:30,760
So So what we did is we um

1217
00:46:30,760 --> 00:46:32,000
we

1218
00:46:32,000 --> 00:46:34,720
inventoried all of the parking lots in

1219
00:46:34,720 --> 00:46:37,120
town and said, "Okay, you this this

1220
00:46:37,120 --> 00:46:39,640
parking lot has X number of spaces."

1221
00:46:39,640 --> 00:46:42,360
And then we did counts

1222
00:46:42,360 --> 00:46:42,960
um

1223
00:46:42,960 --> 00:46:44,760
at various times set times throughout

1224
00:46:44,760 --> 00:46:47,280
the day. I forget what they were like

1225
00:46:47,280 --> 00:46:49,800
9:00 a.m., 1:00 p.m., 4:00 p.m., 7:00

1226
00:46:49,800 --> 00:46:51,000
p.m., something like that. Like four

1227
00:46:51,000 --> 00:46:52,320
times a day.

1228
00:46:52,320 --> 00:46:54,440
And we repeated that on a number of

1229
00:46:54,440 --> 00:46:56,920
different days throughout the year. So,

1230
00:46:56,920 --> 00:46:59,400
a standard weekend day,

1231
00:46:59,400 --> 00:47:02,240
a holiday weekend day, a standard

1232
00:47:02,240 --> 00:47:04,240
weekday day. Uh

1233
00:47:04,240 --> 00:47:06,040
you know, so so we we got kind of

1234
00:47:06,040 --> 00:47:08,400
various different data points and then

1235
00:47:08,400 --> 00:47:09,800
we're able to combine those to get a

1236
00:47:09,800 --> 00:47:11,840
snapshot of what parking looked like. We

1237
00:47:11,840 --> 00:47:13,360
could do that same kind of analysis

1238
00:47:13,360 --> 00:47:14,960
again.

1239
00:47:14,960 --> 00:47:16,920
Sounds like a fairly thorough analysis.

1240
00:47:16,920 --> 00:47:19,670
Um

1241
00:47:19,680 --> 00:47:22,360
Some of the questions I have

1242
00:47:22,360 --> 00:47:25,120
how often or do you remember ever

1243
00:47:25,120 --> 00:47:28,080
getting a variance request on minimum

1244
00:47:28,080 --> 00:47:30,160
parking spaces?

1245
00:47:30,160 --> 00:47:31,920
I don't think we ever have.

1246
00:47:31,920 --> 00:47:34,840
So nobody's tried to say we need fewer

1247
00:47:34,840 --> 00:47:37,640
parking spaces than the minimum. No,

1248
00:47:37,640 --> 00:47:39,200
that that was referenced in in some of

1249
00:47:39,200 --> 00:47:40,480
the material that was included in the

1250
00:47:40,480 --> 00:47:43,080
staff report. Um you know, one one of

1251
00:47:43,080 --> 00:47:44,960
the assertions was, "Well, planners like

1252
00:47:44,960 --> 00:47:46,240
to have these parking minimums so they

1253
00:47:46,240 --> 00:47:48,080
can use them as a bargaining chip in in

1254
00:47:48,080 --> 00:47:50,000
variances and

1255
00:47:50,000 --> 00:47:52,920
Utah in in in Utah variances are very

1256
00:47:52,920 --> 00:47:54,440
specific and I don't think anybody would

1257
00:47:54,440 --> 00:47:57,160
ever qualify for a variance from a

1258
00:47:57,160 --> 00:47:58,680
parking minimum in Utah. It would be

1259
00:47:58,680 --> 00:48:01,320
difficult to

1260
00:48:01,320 --> 00:48:03,640
I think Right.

1261
00:48:03,640 --> 00:48:06,280
to to justify a variance from a from a

1262
00:48:06,280 --> 00:48:07,640
parking standard or parking minimum.

1263
00:48:07,640 --> 00:48:09,000
>> That's kind of what I was wondering when

1264
00:48:09,000 --> 00:48:10,760
I read that. It seemed

1265
00:48:10,760 --> 00:48:13,920
like it would be difficult. Um

1266
00:48:13,920 --> 00:48:15,880
but on the other hand

1267
00:48:15,880 --> 00:48:18,000
so there's this analysis you discussed.

1268
00:48:18,000 --> 00:48:19,560
One of the things I think might be

1269
00:48:19,560 --> 00:48:22,040
valuable might also be asking

1270
00:48:22,040 --> 00:48:23,280
um

1271
00:48:23,280 --> 00:48:25,880
business owners in town

1272
00:48:25,880 --> 00:48:28,080
if they feel that they're required to

1273
00:48:28,080 --> 00:48:30,800
have more parking spaces than they need.

1274
00:48:30,800 --> 00:48:33,920
Um or maybe to find out

1275
00:48:33,920 --> 00:48:36,800
some of a number of the commercial um

1276
00:48:36,800 --> 00:48:38,360
developments that have come through in

1277
00:48:38,360 --> 00:48:39,400
the time I've been in the planning

1278
00:48:39,400 --> 00:48:42,040
commission have actually built slightly

1279
00:48:42,040 --> 00:48:44,200
more parking spaces than the minimum

1280
00:48:44,200 --> 00:48:45,840
required.

1281
00:48:45,840 --> 00:48:48,000
Which sort of implies to me that

1282
00:48:48,000 --> 00:48:50,160
reducing the minimum

1283
00:48:50,160 --> 00:48:52,280
may not reduce the number of parking

1284
00:48:52,280 --> 00:48:54,800
spaces actually built.

1285
00:48:54,800 --> 00:48:59,120
If we're already tend to be below what

1286
00:48:59,120 --> 00:49:01,440
they want to build anyway.

1287
00:49:01,440 --> 00:49:04,360
Um so to me that information would also

1288
00:49:04,360 --> 00:49:07,040
be valuable.

1289
00:49:07,040 --> 00:49:10,750
Um

1290
00:49:10,760 --> 00:49:14,950
Let me see.

1291
00:49:14,960 --> 00:49:18,720
And so we haven't applied this concept

1292
00:49:18,720 --> 00:49:19,920
to

1293
00:49:19,920 --> 00:49:22,680
um residential zones from what I hear so

1294
00:49:22,680 --> 00:49:24,320
far. Is that true?

1295
00:49:24,320 --> 00:49:25,720
So we haven't said well let's reduce the

1296
00:49:25,720 --> 00:49:27,000
number

1297
00:49:27,000 --> 00:49:28,520
right now we require like say two

1298
00:49:28,520 --> 00:49:31,560
parking spaces for single home.

1299
00:49:31,560 --> 00:49:33,080
Has anybody We ever discussed whether

1300
00:49:33,080 --> 00:49:34,600
that we should reduce that to one for

1301
00:49:34,600 --> 00:49:35,880
example?

1302
00:49:35,880 --> 00:49:37,440
Um

1303
00:49:37,440 --> 00:49:39,160
we have not had that conversation in the

1304
00:49:39,160 --> 00:49:41,000
past, but you're welcome to have that

1305
00:49:41,000 --> 00:49:46,430
conversation as part of this discussion.

1306
00:49:46,440 --> 00:49:48,920
But it but my gather from what's been

1307
00:49:48,920 --> 00:49:51,840
presented is the

1308
00:49:51,840 --> 00:49:53,600
what what it is we're being asked to

1309
00:49:53,600 --> 00:49:56,160
look at is more aimed at commercial than

1310
00:49:56,160 --> 00:49:58,560
at residential. Is that true?

1311
00:49:58,560 --> 00:50:00,200
Not necessarily. Not necessarily.

1312
00:50:00,200 --> 00:50:05,560
>> I I I think that the the issue is is

1313
00:50:05,560 --> 00:50:07,800
applies to all kinds of uses.

1314
00:50:07,800 --> 00:50:09,560
And again, you know, Terry, you make you

1315
00:50:09,560 --> 00:50:10,880
make a good point that and and I

1316
00:50:10,880 --> 00:50:12,000
referenced this in the staff report. We

1317
00:50:12,000 --> 00:50:13,680
don't want to do something just because

1318
00:50:13,680 --> 00:50:15,920
another another municipality said, "Hey,

1319
00:50:15,920 --> 00:50:17,120
we've had this great success with

1320
00:50:17,120 --> 00:50:19,640
parking reform."

1321
00:50:19,640 --> 00:50:21,280
Just replicating what another community

1322
00:50:21,280 --> 00:50:23,680
does in Springdale is is

1323
00:50:23,680 --> 00:50:25,320
not guaranteed to bring us success,

1324
00:50:25,320 --> 00:50:29,360
right? How With that caveat, um a lot of

1325
00:50:29,360 --> 00:50:33,160
communities are specifically looking at reducing or eliminating parking

1326
00:50:33,160 --> 00:50:35,600
minimums for residential as a means to

1327
00:50:35,600 --> 00:50:37,520
encourage more affordable housing.

1328
00:50:37,520 --> 00:50:39,680
Um parking spaces are super expensive to

1329
00:50:39,680 --> 00:50:41,160
develop and if a developer has to

1330
00:50:41,160 --> 00:50:42,400
provide

1331
00:50:42,400 --> 00:50:45,560
two spaces or or one and a half spaces

1332
00:50:45,560 --> 00:50:49,480
per unit in their in in their um

1333
00:50:49,480 --> 00:50:51,760
housing development, just reducing that

1334
00:50:51,760 --> 00:50:53,240
down

1335
00:50:53,240 --> 00:50:54,200
um

1336
00:50:54,200 --> 00:50:55,640
can be the

1337
00:50:55,640 --> 00:50:57,720
from two spaces to one space or from one

1338
00:50:57,720 --> 00:50:59,720
and a half spaces to one space can be

1339
00:50:59,720 --> 00:51:01,840
the difference even even though the the

1340
00:51:01,840 --> 00:51:04,560
end development costs are only reduced,

1341
00:51:04,560 --> 00:51:07,760
say, you know, 20 30,000 dollars, that

1342
00:51:07,760 --> 00:51:11,040
can be the the make or break between an

1343
00:51:11,040 --> 00:51:13,360
affordable housing project working and

1344
00:51:13,360 --> 00:51:15,440
not working.

1345
00:51:15,440 --> 00:51:16,720
Yes, that was one of the one of the

1346
00:51:16,720 --> 00:51:18,800
thoughts I had cuz we do have

1347
00:51:18,800 --> 00:51:22,080
an affordable housing section in the um

1348
00:51:22,080 --> 00:51:24,040
in the ordinances and it doesn't say

1349
00:51:24,040 --> 00:51:26,360
anything about offering, you know, if

1350
00:51:26,360 --> 00:51:29,080
you build affordable housing, you can

1351
00:51:29,080 --> 00:51:31,360
you you know, have fewer parking spaces.

1352
00:51:31,360 --> 00:51:35,440
Correct. That might be an interesting

1353
00:51:35,440 --> 00:51:37,000
incentive

1354
00:51:37,000 --> 00:51:38,200
for some of the things we're trying to

1355
00:51:38,200 --> 00:51:39,920
accomplish.

1356
00:51:39,920 --> 00:51:41,200
Um

1357
00:51:41,200 --> 00:51:43,800
my general feeling is is

1358
00:51:43,800 --> 00:51:45,720
I'd like to get more information and

1359
00:51:45,720 --> 00:51:49,000
like some studies of where we are today

1360
00:51:49,000 --> 00:51:50,440
to understand

1361
00:51:50,440 --> 00:51:52,800
what problems we do have if any.

1362
00:51:52,800 --> 00:51:54,960
That's sort of my feel on this.

1363
00:51:54,960 --> 00:51:57,520
I agree. I I

1364
00:51:57,520 --> 00:51:59,320
actually

1365
00:51:59,320 --> 00:52:01,960
agree with um some of Tom Kenniston's

1366
00:52:01,960 --> 00:52:04,480
comments. Um

1367
00:52:04,480 --> 00:52:08,000
where his comment was we may pre- be

1368
00:52:08,000 --> 00:52:10,000
prematurely

1369
00:52:10,000 --> 00:52:11,360
um

1370
00:52:11,360 --> 00:52:13,920
reducing availability of parking. I

1371
00:52:13,920 --> 00:52:16,400
don't know if that's it we can structure

1372
00:52:16,400 --> 00:52:18,640
this a lot of different ways, I know.

1373
00:52:18,640 --> 00:52:20,240
But maybe we're just not quite there

1374
00:52:20,240 --> 00:52:23,400
yet. I um understanding the direction of

1375
00:52:23,400 --> 00:52:27,520
the general plan. I I think there's some

1376
00:52:27,520 --> 00:52:31,520
forward motion on that as far as um

1377
00:52:31,520 --> 00:52:33,720
the bus transit system and the bike

1378
00:52:33,720 --> 00:52:37,560
trails, but I just don't think we're quite there

1379
00:52:37,560 --> 00:52:40,240
yet. I think it's something that should

1380
00:52:40,240 --> 00:52:43,760
stay somewhere in the priorities to keep

1381
00:52:43,760 --> 00:52:46,400
talking about and adjusting

1382
00:52:46,400 --> 00:52:49,160
um when it may make more sense.

1383
00:52:49,160 --> 00:52:52,040
But perhaps in the meantime getting a

1384
00:52:52,040 --> 00:52:55,240
little more information that might

1385
00:52:55,240 --> 00:52:56,960
um

1386
00:52:56,960 --> 00:52:58,480
put a different perspective on it would

1387
00:52:58,480 --> 00:53:01,990
be helpful.

1388
00:53:02,000 --> 00:53:03,280
Because there's a lot of different ways

1389
00:53:03,280 --> 00:53:04,800
if I'm understanding right, this could

1390
00:53:04,800 --> 00:53:06,800
be structured. Like you could remove the

1391
00:53:06,800 --> 00:53:09,560
minimum and the maximum.

1392
00:53:09,560 --> 00:53:10,240
Right?

1393
00:53:10,240 --> 00:53:11,360
>> Yeah, I don't think we have any

1394
00:53:11,360 --> 00:53:13,600
maximums, but Right. Oh yeah, move the

1395
00:53:13,600 --> 00:53:16,280
minimum or put a maximum on. There's

1396
00:53:16,280 --> 00:53:19,360
just a a lot of different ways and

1397
00:53:19,360 --> 00:53:22,160
um needing that information to determine

1398
00:53:22,160 --> 00:53:24,200
what the structure would be.

1399
00:53:24,200 --> 00:53:25,400
Um

1400
00:53:25,400 --> 00:53:27,640
but then mostly just if if now's the

1401
00:53:27,640 --> 00:53:29,120
time.

1402
00:53:29,120 --> 00:53:31,480
Right, and it comes back to, you know,

1403
00:53:31,480 --> 00:53:35,880
do we have a problem and what do we have?

1404
00:53:35,880 --> 00:53:37,160
And because you you're right, you we

1405
00:53:37,160 --> 00:53:39,200
could reduce minimums, we could remove

1406
00:53:39,200 --> 00:53:42,320
minimums, we could have reduced minimums

1407
00:53:42,320 --> 00:53:45,240
as incentives for affordable housing or

1408
00:53:45,240 --> 00:53:47,040
something like that. There's a variety

1409
00:53:47,040 --> 00:53:48,440
of options we could take, but without

1410
00:53:48,440 --> 00:53:50,160
knowing what the problem is, we're

1411
00:53:50,160 --> 00:53:51,920
difficult to choose

1412
00:53:51,920 --> 00:53:53,680
what the approach would be.

1413
00:53:53,680 --> 00:53:54,680
Um

1414
00:53:54,680 --> 00:53:57,400
So, I agree we should Yeah. Maybe the

1415
00:53:57,400 --> 00:54:00,120
direction of the staff would be to

1416
00:54:00,120 --> 00:54:02,760
maybe conduct a survey or or

1417
00:54:02,760 --> 00:54:05,040
get some information or maybe come back

1418
00:54:05,040 --> 00:54:07,080
to it with with a recommendation of of

1419
00:54:07,080 --> 00:54:10,080
how to gather information.

1420
00:54:10,080 --> 00:54:12,800
And then we can determine, okay, Yeah.

1421
00:54:12,800 --> 00:54:14,200
maybe that's going to take It sounds

1422
00:54:14,200 --> 00:54:15,760
like it might take a number of months to

1423
00:54:15,760 --> 00:54:18,760
determine to gather the information.

1424
00:54:18,760 --> 00:54:20,600
Um and then we might set it aside during

1425
00:54:20,600 --> 00:54:22,680
that time and then look at it

1426
00:54:22,680 --> 00:54:24,680
if we understand after looking at the

1427
00:54:24,680 --> 00:54:26,720
analysis that there is some

1428
00:54:26,720 --> 00:54:30,750
significant problems to take care of.

1429
00:54:30,760 --> 00:54:32,080
Yeah.

1430
00:54:32,080 --> 00:54:33,760
Thoughts, Kosh?

1431
00:54:33,760 --> 00:54:38,200
I don't

1432
00:54:38,200 --> 00:54:39,000
Yeah,

1433
00:54:39,000 --> 00:54:53,030
it's more more info.

1434
00:54:53,040 --> 00:54:55,240
I would say that

1435
00:54:55,240 --> 00:54:56,652
a maximum

1436
00:54:56,652 --> 00:54:58,950
>> [clears throat]

1437
00:54:58,960 --> 00:55:01,560
» at this point wouldn't make any sense to

1438
00:55:01,560 --> 00:55:03,120
me.

1439
00:55:03,120 --> 00:55:04,960
I yeah, I don't know of a reason to put

1440
00:55:04,960 --> 00:55:05,760
a maximum.

1441
00:55:05,760 --> 00:55:06,880
>> Yeah.

1442
00:55:06,880 --> 00:55:09,200
Unless there's something in the analysis

1443
00:55:09,200 --> 00:55:10,680
that tells us

1444
00:55:10,680 --> 00:55:12,400
I'm a little more

1445
00:55:12,400 --> 00:55:13,560
It makes a little more sense to me to

1446
00:55:13,560 --> 00:55:16,240
possibly reduce minimums in some places.

1447
00:55:16,240 --> 00:55:18,830
Right.

1448
00:55:18,840 --> 00:55:22,000
That is A, it's a small change. B, it

1449
00:55:22,000 --> 00:55:25,960
doesn't force um it actually reduces it

1450
00:55:25,960 --> 00:55:27,880
actually gives developers a little more

1451
00:55:27,880 --> 00:55:29,280
freedom

1452
00:55:29,280 --> 00:55:30,400
um

1453
00:55:30,400 --> 00:55:33,400
to adjust parking to their the needs of

1454
00:55:33,400 --> 00:55:36,240
their site. So, And I And I like the

1455
00:55:36,240 --> 00:55:39,160
idea of moving toward or going in the

1456
00:55:39,160 --> 00:55:41,480
direction of the general plan.

1457
00:55:41,480 --> 00:55:43,880
And making steps for

1458
00:55:43,880 --> 00:55:46,960
more public transport, different public

1459
00:55:46,960 --> 00:55:49,080
transportation.

1460
00:55:49,080 --> 00:55:51,000
You know, just um

1461
00:55:51,000 --> 00:55:52,200
other options.

1462
00:55:52,200 --> 00:55:53,560
>> That would be another thing to, you

1463
00:55:53,560 --> 00:55:55,960
know, to coordinate with other things

1464
00:55:55,960 --> 00:55:57,560
that are sort of outside of the planning

1465
00:55:57,560 --> 00:56:00,920
commission purview um about well, if we

1466
00:56:00,920 --> 00:56:02,920
do reduce minimums and actually the

1467
00:56:02,920 --> 00:56:05,080
number of parking spaces does

1468
00:56:05,080 --> 00:56:07,160
go down or doesn't go up as much,

1469
00:56:07,160 --> 00:56:09,720
whatever that leads to, that there the

1470
00:56:09,720 --> 00:56:11,400
other options are coming along in

1471
00:56:11,400 --> 00:56:12,880
combination

1472
00:56:12,880 --> 00:56:15,960
um with that. Um overall, I think we've

1473
00:56:15,960 --> 00:56:18,320
done a pretty good job with the bus

1474
00:56:18,320 --> 00:56:22,400
system we have, with the parking that we have. I mean, it's

1475
00:56:22,400 --> 00:56:23,200
not a

1476
00:56:23,200 --> 00:56:25,320
planning commission issue, but it seems

1477
00:56:25,320 --> 00:56:28,240
to work pretty well other than in the

1478
00:56:28,240 --> 00:56:30,400
really peak times, the parking that we

1479
00:56:30,400 --> 00:56:33,720
have for the other issue, the Zion Park

1480
00:56:33,720 --> 00:56:35,320
visitor issue.

1481
00:56:35,320 --> 00:56:39,000
Um it also, in my experience, seems to

1482
00:56:39,000 --> 00:56:40,400
encourage

1483
00:56:40,400 --> 00:56:44,360
visitors to come and park and get out of

1484
00:56:44,360 --> 00:56:45,680
their car

1485
00:56:45,680 --> 00:56:48,880
and go to the park or walk around town

1486
00:56:48,880 --> 00:56:51,320
or rent bicycles and other things.

1487
00:56:51,320 --> 00:56:53,400
Generally, it dis- it discourages them

1488
00:56:53,400 --> 00:56:55,480
from going getting back in their car and

1489
00:56:55,480 --> 00:56:57,920
driving to another place in town.

1490
00:56:57,920 --> 00:56:59,280
Um and I

1491
00:56:59,280 --> 00:57:02,160
think that our system seems to work

1492
00:57:02,160 --> 00:57:03,720
pretty well that way.

1493
00:57:03,720 --> 00:57:05,320
Um

1494
00:57:05,320 --> 00:57:06,600
And so, I wouldn't want to create a

1495
00:57:06,600 --> 00:57:09,320
situation where now there's no place for

1496
00:57:09,320 --> 00:57:10,880
them to park and they're driving around

1497
00:57:10,880 --> 00:57:13,520
town trying to find a place to park.

1498
00:57:13,520 --> 00:57:15,000
Um so, I want you would want to be

1499
00:57:15,000 --> 00:57:20,470
careful of something like that.

1500
00:57:20,480 --> 00:57:21,880
Okay.

1501
00:57:21,880 --> 00:57:23,120
Is that enough for you to

1502
00:57:23,120 --> 00:57:26,080
>> have information to move forward?

1503
00:57:26,080 --> 00:57:28,320
Do you have enough, Tom, to come back to

1504
00:57:28,320 --> 00:57:29,920
us with

1505
00:57:29,920 --> 00:57:32,360
from us? I've I've got plenty for Niles

1506
00:57:32,360 --> 00:57:34,360
to come back with you with the odds.

1507
00:57:34,360 --> 00:57:36,474
It's fantastic.

1508
00:57:36,474 --> 00:57:38,160
>> [laughter]

1509
00:57:38,160 --> 00:57:41,000
>> I I think the primary request is to come

1510
00:57:41,000 --> 00:57:43,920
back to us with a proposal of how to do

1511
00:57:43,920 --> 00:57:45,440
a study

1512
00:57:45,440 --> 00:57:47,440
to gather us information to determine if

1513
00:57:47,440 --> 00:57:49,800
we have a problem. Perfect. So you So

1514
00:57:49,800 --> 00:57:51,120
you're not actually you're not looking

1515
00:57:51,120 --> 00:57:53,200
for us to do that data at gathering and

1516
00:57:53,200 --> 00:57:55,000
that analysis at this point. You want us

1517
00:57:55,000 --> 00:57:57,120
to say, "Here's what we how we propose

1518
00:57:57,120 --> 00:57:59,320
to go about getting that analysis." You

1519
00:57:59,320 --> 00:58:00,720
can take a look at it and say, "Yeah,

1520
00:58:00,720 --> 00:58:02,240
that looks good." or make tweaks to it

1521
00:58:02,240 --> 00:58:03,280
and then we can go ahead and do the

1522
00:58:03,280 --> 00:58:04,960
data. Right. That way we can understand

1523
00:58:04,960 --> 00:58:06,360
well what kind of data are we going to

1524
00:58:06,360 --> 00:58:08,240
get and does it match what we think we

1525
00:58:08,240 --> 00:58:09,440
need?

1526
00:58:09,440 --> 00:58:10,320
Yeah.

1527
00:58:10,320 --> 00:58:13,390
Yep, we can do that for sure.

1528
00:58:13,400 --> 00:58:15,760
I think I just wanted to add one thing.

1529
00:58:15,760 --> 00:58:16,560
Um

1530
00:58:16,560 --> 00:58:19,520
so from a park perspective

1531
00:58:19,520 --> 00:58:24,280
as you can imagine uh we get asked or

1532
00:58:24,280 --> 00:58:26,720
pressured a lot to add more parking in

1533
00:58:26,720 --> 00:58:29,920
the park. Um and I've only been here

1534
00:58:29,920 --> 00:58:31,680
about a year and a half, but speaking

1535
00:58:31,680 --> 00:58:33,160
with people that have been in the park

1536
00:58:33,160 --> 00:58:35,440
since the the visitation spike since

1537
00:58:35,440 --> 00:58:36,800
2010

1538
00:58:36,800 --> 00:58:39,160
um I just wanted to share for the the

1539
00:58:39,160 --> 00:58:45,120
commission's consideration that there will never be enough parking.

1540
00:58:45,120 --> 00:58:45,840
Um

1541
00:58:45,840 --> 00:58:49,040
and so the commission may want to

1542
00:58:49,040 --> 00:58:51,040
consider

1543
00:58:51,040 --> 00:58:52,400
like

1544
00:58:52,400 --> 00:58:53,760
you know, what what do you want the

1545
00:58:53,760 --> 00:58:55,760
character of the town to be and then

1546
00:58:55,760 --> 00:58:58,360
parking kind of fills in around that. It

1547
00:58:58,360 --> 00:59:01,480
It's kind of how we operate like

1548
00:59:01,480 --> 00:59:02,600
you know

1549
00:59:02,600 --> 00:59:03,840
the park

1550
00:59:03,840 --> 00:59:06,240
has to

1551
00:59:06,240 --> 00:59:08,400
maintain its character. We can't just

1552
00:59:08,400 --> 00:59:10,360
put parking lots everywhere.

1553
00:59:10,360 --> 00:59:12,040
Stuff like that. And so

1554
00:59:12,040 --> 00:59:13,840
not a um

1555
00:59:13,840 --> 00:59:16,440
not advice, just something to consider

1556
00:59:16,440 --> 00:59:19,000
um that I've heard quite a bit when we

1557
00:59:19,000 --> 00:59:21,240
talk about various projects. It's often

1558
00:59:21,240 --> 00:59:22,440
suggested, "Well, add some more

1559
00:59:22,440 --> 00:59:26,720
parking." because you know, that'll help, but

1560
00:59:26,720 --> 00:59:29,480
um visitation isn't going anywhere and

1561
00:59:29,480 --> 00:59:32,920
yeah, the overall

1562
00:59:32,920 --> 00:59:35,120
feedback is there will never be enough

1563
00:59:35,120 --> 00:59:38,560
parking, so. Good point.

1564
00:59:38,560 --> 00:59:40,960
Thank you, Matt. Can I just add

1565
00:59:40,960 --> 00:59:42,240
a little bit on that? I mean, it's the

1566
00:59:42,240 --> 00:59:43,760
same concept as you can't build your way

1567
00:59:43,760 --> 00:59:45,960
out of congestion on a freeway, right?

1568
00:59:45,960 --> 00:59:48,120
Like, you in in Southern California, you

1569
00:59:48,120 --> 00:59:49,560
say, "Oh, just add more more lanes on

1570
00:59:49,560 --> 00:59:51,400
the freeway." And they they just clog

1571
00:59:51,400 --> 00:59:53,920
up, you know, so this the same is true

1572
00:59:53,920 --> 00:59:58,480
of of of parking. And and that's why it

1573
00:59:58,480 --> 00:59:59,880
is great you you know, you mentioned we

1574
00:59:59,880 --> 01:00:01,920
have the the bus system, which is a

1575
01:00:01,920 --> 01:00:03,560
fantastic addition. We're working on

1576
01:00:03,560 --> 01:00:04,880
getting the multi-use trail through

1577
01:00:04,880 --> 01:00:05,920
here.

1578
01:00:05,920 --> 01:00:08,080
Um,

1579
01:00:08,080 --> 01:00:10,080
in order to really capitalize on those

1580
01:00:10,080 --> 01:00:12,480
and make those effective,

1581
01:00:12,480 --> 01:00:14,120
we

1582
01:00:14,120 --> 01:00:16,080
one of one way to do that is to adopt

1583
01:00:16,080 --> 01:00:18,120
land use policy that supports that. And

1584
01:00:18,120 --> 01:00:20,560
that could be

1585
01:00:20,560 --> 01:00:22,600
not providing as much parking in

1586
01:00:22,600 --> 01:00:24,440
Springdale.

1587
01:00:24,440 --> 01:00:27,040
So, again, anecdotally, I'm a frequent

1588
01:00:27,040 --> 01:00:29,280
bus rider, um, and it's and it's great.

1589
01:00:29,280 --> 01:00:31,080
And all throughout the winter I was I

1590
01:00:31,080 --> 01:00:33,400
was a solo bus rider. I had the whole

1591
01:00:33,400 --> 01:00:36,960
bus to myself. It was, you know, it was fine. It was great. Um, the last

1592
01:00:36,960 --> 01:00:38,840
2 days when parking was a hassle in

1593
01:00:38,840 --> 01:00:40,320
Springdale and people knew that parking

1594
01:00:40,320 --> 01:00:41,680
was a hassle in Springdale and and

1595
01:00:41,680 --> 01:00:43,080
UDOT's doing a great job of getting that

1596
01:00:43,080 --> 01:00:44,920
information out and saying parking's a

1597
01:00:44,920 --> 01:00:46,560
hassle in Springdale. Bus has been

1598
01:00:46,560 --> 01:00:47,800
packed.

1599
01:00:47,800 --> 01:00:49,560
And people have said, "Well, I'm going

1600
01:00:49,560 --> 01:00:50,560
to I don't want to deal with that in

1601
01:00:50,560 --> 01:00:52,240
Springdale. I'm going to take the bus."

1602
01:00:52,240 --> 01:00:54,480
So, the success of these other

1603
01:00:54,480 --> 01:01:01,560
modes, like the trail, like the bus, is, um, intrinsically linked to our land

1604
01:01:01,560 --> 01:01:04,280
use policy regarding parking.

1605
01:01:04,280 --> 01:01:06,040
I'm glad to hear that about the bus.

1606
01:01:06,040 --> 01:01:07,720
That's great.

1607
01:01:07,720 --> 01:01:08,520
Um,

1608
01:01:08,520 --> 01:01:09,520
we're sort of going back to one of the

1609
01:01:09,520 --> 01:01:11,640
things you talked about early on,

1610
01:01:11,640 --> 01:01:14,320
the changes we're considering,

1611
01:01:14,320 --> 01:01:17,520
um, would be changes to parking spaces

1612
01:01:17,520 --> 01:01:20,400
associated with commercial businesses,

1613
01:01:20,400 --> 01:01:22,200
which generally

1614
01:01:22,200 --> 01:01:24,120
don't want someone to come and park

1615
01:01:24,120 --> 01:01:26,880
their car and go in the park all day.

1616
01:01:26,880 --> 01:01:28,040
Um

1617
01:01:28,040 --> 01:01:30,400
and so

1618
01:01:30,400 --> 01:01:32,520
we have to be aware of it's a different

1619
01:01:32,520 --> 01:01:34,320
type of parking

1620
01:01:34,320 --> 01:01:36,800
than parking for these visitors who

1621
01:01:36,800 --> 01:01:39,280
might be regional visitors who aren't

1622
01:01:39,280 --> 01:01:41,040
going to spend the night

1623
01:01:41,040 --> 01:01:42,520
but are but are going to drive up here

1624
01:01:42,520 --> 01:01:43,960
because they're coming from St. George

1625
01:01:43,960 --> 01:01:46,600
or wherever. Um

1626
01:01:46,600 --> 01:01:48,320
and so we have to be conscious of that

1627
01:01:48,320 --> 01:01:50,560
difference. Ex- exactly. And I I just

1628
01:01:50,560 --> 01:01:52,880
brought that up as an example.

1629
01:01:52,880 --> 01:01:54,520
And and your point about the difference

1630
01:01:54,520 --> 01:01:56,040
between

1631
01:01:56,040 --> 01:01:57,920
uh patron parking at businesses and

1632
01:01:57,920 --> 01:01:59,960
visitor parking to Zion is absolutely

1633
01:01:59,960 --> 01:02:02,120
right.

1634
01:02:02,120 --> 01:02:04,840
And along those lines, um Tom mentioned

1635
01:02:04,840 --> 01:02:08,400
that Keniston in his comments about

1636
01:02:08,400 --> 01:02:13,800
potentially adding more paid parking to

1637
01:02:13,800 --> 01:02:16,760
um just add on to that strategy

1638
01:02:16,760 --> 01:02:19,040
of encouraging people to not have to pay

1639
01:02:19,040 --> 01:02:22,240
to park doing other transportation. And

1640
01:02:22,240 --> 01:02:24,320
then on the flip side of that, the

1641
01:02:24,320 --> 01:02:26,240
public comment letter from Jonathan

1642
01:02:26,240 --> 01:02:27,720
Zambella

1643
01:02:27,720 --> 01:02:29,080
um is coming from the business

1644
01:02:29,080 --> 01:02:32,080
perspective and asking

1645
01:02:32,080 --> 01:02:33,360
um

1646
01:02:33,360 --> 01:02:35,760
if having paid parking

1647
01:02:35,760 --> 01:02:40,200
um you know, just kind of weighing the the how much

1648
01:02:40,200 --> 01:02:43,440
but the revenue is compared to

1649
01:02:43,440 --> 01:02:46,280
um costs and and running that. Um so you

1650
01:02:46,280 --> 01:02:47,600
can kind of see two different

1651
01:02:47,600 --> 01:02:50,280
perspectives there and the balance is

1652
01:02:50,280 --> 01:02:52,200
probably somewhere in there with the

1653
01:02:52,200 --> 01:02:55,360
parking spaces as part of the factor of

1654
01:02:55,360 --> 01:02:56,720
all of that.

1655
01:02:56,720 --> 01:02:58,440
I mean, just this is a side question on

1656
01:02:58,440 --> 01:03:00,320
that.

1657
01:03:00,320 --> 01:03:03,240
Is it is it that the paid parking that

1658
01:03:03,240 --> 01:03:04,960
the city runs

1659
01:03:04,960 --> 01:03:09,400
is a sort of a net zero operation

1660
01:03:09,400 --> 01:03:11,240
meaning it's not profitable but not loss

1661
01:03:11,240 --> 01:03:13,720
so any but covers the costs?

1662
01:03:13,720 --> 01:03:15,080
Uh

1663
01:03:15,080 --> 01:03:17,720
no, that's not true. Oh. Um certainly it

1664
01:03:17,720 --> 01:03:21,680
costs a lot of money to run the the the

1665
01:03:21,680 --> 01:03:23,960
um, program, right? There there's some

1666
01:03:23,960 --> 01:03:26,000
significant costs there. Um, however, we

1667
01:03:26,000 --> 01:03:27,560
do

1668
01:03:27,560 --> 01:03:30,600
net money from the parking program.

1669
01:03:30,600 --> 01:03:34,160
That money is all poured back into

1670
01:03:34,160 --> 01:03:36,120
transportation improvement projects in

1671
01:03:36,120 --> 01:03:38,080
the town of Springdale. So, a lot of the

1672
01:03:38,080 --> 01:03:39,520
sidewalk projects that have been going

1673
01:03:39,520 --> 01:03:40,600
on,

1674
01:03:40,600 --> 01:03:42,320
um, that Robert has has done a great job

1675
01:03:42,320 --> 01:03:44,040
leading leading, those have been paid

1676
01:03:44,040 --> 01:03:47,960
for by parking fees. Um, a lot of the

1677
01:03:47,960 --> 01:03:48,680
um,

1678
01:03:48,680 --> 01:03:51,400
enhancements with crosswalks and benches

1679
01:03:51,400 --> 01:03:53,720
and and and those kinds of things, those

1680
01:03:53,720 --> 01:03:55,240
are paid for out of those parking

1681
01:03:55,240 --> 01:03:58,720
revenues. So, the the the

1682
01:03:58,720 --> 01:04:00,800
paid parking

1683
01:04:00,800 --> 01:04:02,520
does two things. Yes, it it covers the

1684
01:04:02,520 --> 01:04:06,360
costs of the program and it also helps

1685
01:04:06,360 --> 01:04:09,040
the town provide amenities that benefit

1686
01:04:09,040 --> 01:04:12,080
residents and visitors alike.

1687
01:04:12,080 --> 01:04:13,680
And as I understand it, some of the

1688
01:04:13,680 --> 01:04:17,000
parking lots are on private property and

1689
01:04:17,000 --> 01:04:19,120
the private property owner gets some

1690
01:04:19,120 --> 01:04:20,640
portion of the revenue that comes from

1691
01:04:20,640 --> 01:04:22,840
that. Is that correct?

1692
01:04:22,840 --> 01:04:25,200
So, the the town has an agreement with

1693
01:04:25,200 --> 01:04:28,480
only one private parking lot in the town

1694
01:04:28,480 --> 01:04:31,400
where where we operate that parking lot

1695
01:04:31,400 --> 01:04:33,720
and manage it and and then we split the

1696
01:04:33,720 --> 01:04:35,680
revenue with the property owner.

1697
01:04:35,680 --> 01:04:37,640
All of the other

1698
01:04:37,640 --> 01:04:39,560
off-street private parking lots in

1699
01:04:39,560 --> 01:04:41,440
Springdale are privately owned and and

1700
01:04:41,440 --> 01:04:42,720
the town does not

1701
01:04:42,720 --> 01:04:45,520
um, enforce or or manage or administer

1702
01:04:45,520 --> 01:04:47,600
any of those and all the revenue goes to

1703
01:04:47,600 --> 01:04:49,840
the property owners. Okay, so in the in

1704
01:04:49,840 --> 01:04:52,920
those cases they use whatever

1705
01:04:52,920 --> 01:04:55,240
payment system they're going to use.

1706
01:04:55,240 --> 01:04:56,600
They're not part of the same. Okay,

1707
01:04:56,600 --> 01:05:00,030
that's correct.

1708
01:05:00,040 --> 01:05:01,520
I don't know if this is relevant at all,

1709
01:05:01,520 --> 01:05:03,360
but do you know how many businesses in

1710
01:05:03,360 --> 01:05:05,120
town do what Hoodoo's does where they

1711
01:05:05,120 --> 01:05:06,760
require a minimum purchase? It's like

1712
01:05:06,760 --> 01:05:08,600
kind of both. They're patrons, but then

1713
01:05:08,600 --> 01:05:11,760
it's also long-term parking. So, I I

1714
01:05:11,760 --> 01:05:13,920
think that model is as far as I

1715
01:05:13,920 --> 01:05:16,240
understand is unique to Hoodoo's. Um and

1716
01:05:16,240 --> 01:05:18,560
it's a it's a it's a creative model. Um

1717
01:05:18,560 --> 01:05:21,560
there are a number of properties

1718
01:05:21,560 --> 01:05:23,480
who um you know, Terry men- you

1719
01:05:23,480 --> 01:05:25,120
mentioned that a number of properties

1720
01:05:25,120 --> 01:05:28,320
have more parking than the code requires

1721
01:05:28,320 --> 01:05:29,720
them to have.

1722
01:05:29,720 --> 01:05:31,080
There are a number of those properties

1723
01:05:31,080 --> 01:05:33,400
that um

1724
01:05:33,400 --> 01:05:35,240
charge

1725
01:05:35,240 --> 01:05:37,320
visitors to to park in those surplus

1726
01:05:37,320 --> 01:05:39,080
parking. So, it's it's not exactly what

1727
01:05:39,080 --> 01:05:40,320
Hoodoo's doing. It's doing they're just

1728
01:05:40,320 --> 01:05:41,840
saying, "Yeah, we've got extra parking.

1729
01:05:41,840 --> 01:05:43,840
You can come park here. Here's the fee."

1730
01:05:43,840 --> 01:05:45,800
Um I I think Hoodoo's is the only one

1731
01:05:45,800 --> 01:05:50,995
who has the model that they're using.

1732
01:05:51,005 --> 01:05:55,270
» [snorts]

1733
01:05:55,280 --> 01:05:55,680
» Yes.

1734
01:05:55,680 --> 01:05:58,990
>> Sure. We can

1735
01:05:59,000 --> 01:06:02,600
I Gil Kiefer. Uh Terry, you're right for

1736
01:06:02,600 --> 01:06:04,400
most of the uh

1737
01:06:04,400 --> 01:06:07,840
um businesses that if it's a

1738
01:06:07,840 --> 01:06:10,320
place like Oscar's or something, they

1739
01:06:10,320 --> 01:06:13,040
come in, park for

1740
01:06:13,040 --> 01:06:15,800
a meal. So, they're there for an hour.

1741
01:06:15,800 --> 01:06:17,480
I believe they try to chase them out of

1742
01:06:17,480 --> 01:06:20,000
the parking lot for after that. However,

1743
01:06:20,000 --> 01:06:21,680
the bike businesses, which there is

1744
01:06:21,680 --> 01:06:25,400
about 13 or 14 of them now.

1745
01:06:25,400 --> 01:06:27,840
They come in, they rent a bike.

1746
01:06:27,840 --> 01:06:29,000
Um

1747
01:06:29,000 --> 01:06:30,520
there's usually

1748
01:06:30,520 --> 01:06:33,040
let's say two people to a car.

1749
01:06:33,040 --> 01:06:34,920
Uh they rent two bikes, but they're

1750
01:06:34,920 --> 01:06:37,920
going to be there for 4 to 8 hours.

1751
01:06:37,920 --> 01:06:40,000
Sometimes 12 hours.

1752
01:06:40,000 --> 01:06:41,160
So,

1753
01:06:41,160 --> 01:06:43,400
they they don't turn over those parking

1754
01:06:43,400 --> 01:06:46,960
spaces more than twice a day.

1755
01:06:46,960 --> 01:06:49,440
So, a lot of you're saying

1756
01:06:49,440 --> 01:06:52,320
many of the bike rental facility or

1757
01:06:52,320 --> 01:06:54,040
businesses

1758
01:06:54,040 --> 01:06:55,280
allow the

1759
01:06:55,280 --> 01:06:57,680
park patrons to re- park their car and

1760
01:06:57,680 --> 01:06:59,080
leave their car while they're gone on

1761
01:06:59,080 --> 01:07:02,240
their bike. Some of them do if uh the

1762
01:07:02,240 --> 01:07:03,480
what

1763
01:07:03,480 --> 01:07:04,800
that's part of the problem that you're

1764
01:07:04,800 --> 01:07:09,080
trying to solve is the fact that um

1765
01:07:09,080 --> 01:07:11,320
some of the bike

1766
01:07:11,320 --> 01:07:13,080
uh businesses

1767
01:07:13,080 --> 01:07:15,400
only have maybe five

1768
01:07:15,400 --> 01:07:18,400
uh to 10 parking spaces, yet they're

1769
01:07:18,400 --> 01:07:23,120
renting out 50 to 150 bikes a day.

1770
01:07:23,120 --> 01:07:24,200
So,

1771
01:07:24,200 --> 01:07:27,200
that just right there says that 50 to

1772
01:07:27,200 --> 01:07:30,200
100 cars now have to go find a place to

1773
01:07:30,200 --> 01:07:31,600
park

1774
01:07:31,600 --> 01:07:35,640
on a busy day. So, for each business,

1775
01:07:35,640 --> 01:07:41,320
so my other suggestion was that um until

1776
01:07:41,320 --> 01:07:43,520
um

1777
01:07:43,520 --> 01:07:44,760
the

1778
01:07:44,760 --> 01:07:47,760
uh lot down the street here gets

1779
01:07:47,760 --> 01:07:49,880
developed, there's a lot of things that

1780
01:07:49,880 --> 01:07:51,960
have to go into that development of that

1781
01:07:51,960 --> 01:07:53,000
lot,

1782
01:07:53,000 --> 01:07:55,520
you could probably change that into a a

1783
01:07:55,520 --> 01:07:58,560
parking lot fairly inexpensively.

1784
01:07:58,560 --> 01:08:00,720
Hence, an acre worth of parking that

1785
01:08:00,720 --> 01:08:04,440
would park anywhere from 150 to 200 cars

1786
01:08:04,440 --> 01:08:06,840
on a busy day.

1787
01:08:06,840 --> 01:08:09,280
So, it's just just a thought.

1788
01:08:09,280 --> 01:08:13,400
Um what I would like like to not see

1789
01:08:13,400 --> 01:08:16,240
is um

1790
01:08:16,240 --> 01:08:18,279
the parking

1791
01:08:18,279 --> 01:08:20,560
part of what the material that was

1792
01:08:20,560 --> 01:08:21,920
presented

1793
01:08:21,920 --> 01:08:24,960
uh also had some blue lines on it. I

1794
01:08:24,960 --> 01:08:26,520
don't know if it's it's later in the

1795
01:08:26,520 --> 01:08:27,880
document

1796
01:08:27,880 --> 01:08:30,200
of where the

1797
01:08:30,200 --> 01:08:31,920
um

1798
01:08:31,920 --> 01:08:34,759
uh the residential parking

1799
01:08:34,759 --> 01:08:37,400
areas are in town.

1800
01:08:37,400 --> 01:08:41,520
I would like to not see those impacted

1801
01:08:41,520 --> 01:08:44,680
uh and changed in any way

1802
01:08:44,680 --> 01:08:47,080
to allow additional parking

1803
01:08:47,080 --> 01:08:49,829
um

1804
01:08:49,839 --> 01:08:52,560
You You're getting closer. I'm not

1805
01:08:52,560 --> 01:08:54,600
unless you passed it already.

1806
01:08:54,600 --> 01:08:57,440
Anyway, I would like to not see those

1807
01:08:57,440 --> 01:09:00,799
changed to allow for overflow parking

1808
01:09:00,799 --> 01:09:02,520
for a busy weekend or something like

1809
01:09:02,520 --> 01:09:08,400
that. Those residential areas are basically residential areas and we

1810
01:09:08,400 --> 01:09:10,680
need to park our cars there.

1811
01:09:10,680 --> 01:09:11,319
Um

1812
01:09:11,319 --> 01:09:13,080
they're also

1813
01:09:13,080 --> 01:09:14,359
uh I don't believe the streets are wide

1814
01:09:14,359 --> 01:09:17,680
enough to allow parking on one

1815
01:09:17,680 --> 01:09:19,600
definitely not on both sides, not even

1816
01:09:19,600 --> 01:09:22,720
on one side to allow uh two-way traffic

1817
01:09:22,720 --> 01:09:24,520
there, especially with an emergency

1818
01:09:24,520 --> 01:09:27,080
vehicle. So, I want I would like to make

1819
01:09:27,080 --> 01:09:28,640
sure that

1820
01:09:28,640 --> 01:09:30,759
I'd love to see it not go that

1821
01:09:30,759 --> 01:09:31,920
direction.

1822
01:09:31,920 --> 01:09:34,040
So so on that on that topic, um you're

1823
01:09:34,040 --> 01:09:36,400
talking about on-street parking, I I

1824
01:09:36,400 --> 01:09:37,880
believe, right?

1825
01:09:37,880 --> 01:09:43,440
Um and my perception is around town

1826
01:09:43,440 --> 01:09:46,200
some number of neighborhoods have

1827
01:09:46,200 --> 01:09:48,600
you know, either no parking signs or

1828
01:09:48,600 --> 01:09:50,560
they have permit parking.

1829
01:09:50,560 --> 01:09:53,759
Um and I think that is is the right way

1830
01:09:53,759 --> 01:09:55,640
to go for probably most of the

1831
01:09:55,640 --> 01:09:58,160
residential neighborhoods

1832
01:09:58,160 --> 01:10:00,040
that we I agree that we save them that

1833
01:10:00,040 --> 01:10:01,840
and I my understanding is we're kind of

1834
01:10:01,840 --> 01:10:03,760
moving that direction anyway cuz it

1835
01:10:03,760 --> 01:10:05,760
looks like I'm over year over the years

1836
01:10:05,760 --> 01:10:08,400
I've seen more areas that either become

1837
01:10:08,400 --> 01:10:10,880
permit or no parking areas

1838
01:10:10,880 --> 01:10:14,440
and off of SR 9 in residential areas.

1839
01:10:14,440 --> 01:10:16,280
Um and I would definitely want to

1840
01:10:16,280 --> 01:10:18,320
continue that, I think.

1841
01:10:18,320 --> 01:10:19,320
But

1842
01:10:19,320 --> 01:10:21,760
everywhere that is not a paid parking

1843
01:10:21,760 --> 01:10:23,160
zone

1844
01:10:23,160 --> 01:10:24,960
so you know, you see the paid parking

1845
01:10:24,960 --> 01:10:27,120
zones with the signs and the kiosks,

1846
01:10:27,120 --> 01:10:29,280
everywhere in town that is not one of

1847
01:10:29,280 --> 01:10:32,560
those is either a prohibited parking

1848
01:10:32,560 --> 01:10:35,200
zone or a permit parking zone.

1849
01:10:35,200 --> 01:10:38,240
So. Okay, so so basically

1850
01:10:38,240 --> 01:10:40,040
everywhere in town is controlled one way

1851
01:10:40,040 --> 01:10:41,360
or another.

1852
01:10:41,360 --> 01:10:42,640
Let me let me clarify that. That's on

1853
01:10:42,640 --> 01:10:44,080
town-owned streets.

1854
01:10:44,080 --> 01:10:45,080
>> On town-owned streets.

1855
01:10:45,080 --> 01:10:46,760
>> Correct. Yeah.

1856
01:10:46,760 --> 01:10:48,680
And I know many of the private-owned

1857
01:10:48,680 --> 01:10:51,520
streets also prefer and have put up no

1858
01:10:51,520 --> 01:10:53,160
parking signs and worked with the police

1859
01:10:53,160 --> 01:10:57,560
department on managing that is my understanding.

1860
01:10:57,560 --> 01:11:01,360
Um so, yes. I think we should focus The

1861
01:11:01,360 --> 01:11:04,240
only focus I think we would have on

1862
01:11:04,240 --> 01:11:06,160
residential areas is whether we might

1863
01:11:06,160 --> 01:11:08,000
reduce the minimum

1864
01:11:08,000 --> 01:11:11,240
for a new residential construction.

1865
01:11:11,240 --> 01:11:14,720
The minimum on off-street parking.

1866
01:11:14,720 --> 01:11:16,080
Um

1867
01:11:16,080 --> 01:11:17,640
but again, we'd want to understand if

1868
01:11:17,640 --> 01:11:19,080
there's an issue that needs to be solved

1869
01:11:19,080 --> 01:11:22,430
or not.

1870
01:11:22,440 --> 01:11:27,390
That's at least my perspective. Yeah.

1871
01:11:27,400 --> 01:11:31,910
Is there any other discussion?

1872
01:11:31,920 --> 01:11:33,840
Tom, will you actually be bringing this

1873
01:11:33,840 --> 01:11:35,680
back to us, or you going to be at future

1874
01:11:35,680 --> 01:11:37,600
meetings, or are you transitioning your

1875
01:11:37,600 --> 01:11:38,159
way?

1876
01:11:38,159 --> 01:11:38,640
>> [laughter]

1877
01:11:38,640 --> 01:11:40,360
>> I'll be I'll be here for the for the

1878
01:11:40,360 --> 01:11:42,560
next little bit, so Okay. unless I get

1879
01:11:42,560 --> 01:11:43,640
kicked out. You guys can kick me out

1880
01:11:43,640 --> 01:11:45,280
whenever you want.

1881
01:11:45,280 --> 01:11:46,080
But

1882
01:11:46,080 --> 01:11:48,080
ab- absent that, you know, until April

1883
01:11:48,080 --> 01:11:53,240
and I'll say hit the road, I'll be here for the next uh month, 2

1884
01:11:53,240 --> 01:11:56,200
months, 3 months, or so. Okay, perfect.

1885
01:11:56,200 --> 01:11:58,464
Motion to keep Tom forever.

1886
01:11:58,464 --> 01:12:00,080
>> [laughter]

1887
01:12:00,080 --> 01:12:03,760
>> Wait, I don't want Tom to have two jobs.

1888
01:12:03,760 --> 01:12:06,600
In that case, is there a motion motion

1889
01:12:06,600 --> 01:12:08,480
to adjourn? I'll make a motion to

1890
01:12:08,480 --> 01:12:11,480
adjourn. Second. Motion by Terry, second

1891
01:12:11,480 --> 01:12:13,880
by Kasha. All in favor? Terry, I.

1892
01:12:13,880 --> 01:12:16,160
Jennifer, I. Kasha, I. Meeting is

1893
01:12:16,160 --> 01:12:18,280
adjourned.

1894
01:12:18,280 --> 01:12:19,960
Thank you all the town staff for for

1895
01:12:19,960 --> 01:12:27,110
your information. It was very helpful.

1896
01:12:27,120 --> 01:12:29,200
Yeah.