1 00:00:01,160 --> 00:00:04,640 Good morning. This is a public hearing 2 00:00:04,640 --> 00:00:06,480 on a variance 3 00:00:06,480 --> 00:00:08,760 application. The applicant is Wendell 4 00:00:08,760 --> 00:00:10,480 Burnett. 5 00:00:10,480 --> 00:00:13,960 The affected property are two lots, lots 6 00:00:13,960 --> 00:00:16,160 eight and 11 in the Watchman 7 00:00:16,160 --> 00:00:17,760 subdivision. 8 00:00:17,760 --> 00:00:19,680 The application seeks a variance from 9 00:00:19,680 --> 00:00:22,400 section 10-15 10 00:00:22,400 --> 00:00:24,000 e-9a 11 00:00:24,000 --> 00:00:26,080 of the Springdale Town Code, 12 00:00:26,080 --> 00:00:28,200 which prohibits disturbance of slopes 13 00:00:28,200 --> 00:00:31,440 with grades of 30% or 14 00:00:31,440 --> 00:00:32,560 more. The applicant desires the 15 00:00:32,560 --> 00:00:34,400 variance, as I understand it, to be able 16 00:00:34,400 --> 00:00:38,200 to construct a driveway to a home 17 00:00:38,200 --> 00:00:40,680 on one of those lots. The applicant is 18 00:00:40,680 --> 00:00:43,800 Wendell Burnett. Is Mr. Burnett here? 19 00:00:43,800 --> 00:00:46,120 Mr. Burnett is not here, but we have 20 00:00:46,120 --> 00:00:48,400 Jared Bates from Rosenberg Engineering 21 00:00:48,400 --> 00:00:50,080 representing him here. 22 00:00:50,080 --> 00:00:50,960 >> Okay. 23 00:00:50,960 --> 00:00:55,790 Jared Bates. 24 00:00:55,800 --> 00:00:57,520 I should have known. I saw the truck out 25 00:00:57,520 --> 00:01:01,270 in the parking lot. 26 00:01:01,280 --> 00:01:03,520 Uh there are five elements, just as an 27 00:01:03,520 --> 00:01:04,920 introduction, there are five elements 28 00:01:04,920 --> 00:01:06,960 required to meet 29 00:01:06,960 --> 00:01:08,920 to obtain a variance. First is literal 30 00:01:08,920 --> 00:01:11,840 enforcement of the ordinance would cause 31 00:01:11,840 --> 00:01:14,520 unreasonable hardship. The second is 32 00:01:14,520 --> 00:01:16,600 there are special circumstances attached 33 00:01:16,600 --> 00:01:18,240 to the property that do not generally 34 00:01:18,240 --> 00:01:20,080 apply to other properties in the same 35 00:01:20,080 --> 00:01:21,440 zone. 36 00:01:21,440 --> 00:01:23,040 Three is granting the variance is 37 00:01:23,040 --> 00:01:24,680 essential to the enjoyment of a 38 00:01:24,680 --> 00:01:26,800 substantial property right possessed by 39 00:01:26,800 --> 00:01:29,160 other property in the same zone. 40 00:01:29,160 --> 00:01:30,800 Fourth is that the variance will not 41 00:01:30,800 --> 00:01:33,000 substantially affect the general plan or 42 00:01:33,000 --> 00:01:35,040 be contrary to the public interest. And 43 00:01:35,040 --> 00:01:36,240 five, 44 00:01:36,240 --> 00:01:38,040 that the spirit of land use ordinance is 45 00:01:38,040 --> 00:01:40,400 observed and substantial evidence, or 46 00:01:40,400 --> 00:01:42,560 excuse me, substantial justice is done 47 00:01:42,560 --> 00:01:44,920 and the burden is on the applicant to 48 00:01:44,920 --> 00:01:49,040 demonstrate all five elements. So, Mr. 49 00:01:49,040 --> 00:01:50,320 Bates, 50 00:01:50,320 --> 00:01:52,680 please come forward. I've read I've read 51 00:01:52,680 --> 00:01:54,360 the application. 52 00:01:54,360 --> 00:01:56,240 Um 53 00:01:56,240 --> 00:01:58,440 so I have a background, but 54 00:01:58,440 --> 00:02:00,200 first, if you could if you could walk me 55 00:02:00,200 --> 00:02:01,960 through the I understand there's three 56 00:02:01,960 --> 00:02:04,040 different 57 00:02:04,040 --> 00:02:07,080 uh road options or or or options to 58 00:02:07,080 --> 00:02:09,440 construct this driveway. 59 00:02:09,440 --> 00:02:12,040 You wouldn't mind just walking me 60 00:02:12,040 --> 00:02:14,200 through them so I can understand 61 00:02:14,200 --> 00:02:15,480 kind of the difference between the 62 00:02:15,480 --> 00:02:17,840 three. Yeah, no, uh and this this is 63 00:02:17,840 --> 00:02:20,280 Jared Basset Rosenberg Associates. Um 64 00:02:20,280 --> 00:02:22,560 yeah, so basically we've looked at um 65 00:02:22,560 --> 00:02:24,000 and I'll Brian, were you able to go out 66 00:02:24,000 --> 00:02:25,360 to the site and look at the stakes we 67 00:02:25,360 --> 00:02:26,040 put out there? 68 00:02:26,040 --> 00:02:29,360 >> not. My plan was to go out after the 69 00:02:29,360 --> 00:02:30,440 hearing. 70 00:02:30,440 --> 00:02:32,120 I I'd I'd be happy to join you to to run 71 00:02:32,120 --> 00:02:34,240 >> Yeah, that that would be great. 72 00:02:34,240 --> 00:02:37,640 >> I intended to do it this weekend, but 73 00:02:37,640 --> 00:02:40,160 I was overtaken by events, so No, 74 00:02:40,160 --> 00:02:45,750 understood. Oh, we lost our our screen. 75 00:02:45,760 --> 00:02:51,630 Lost our 76 00:02:51,640 --> 00:02:53,160 I can draw it. I'm just kidding. I've 77 00:02:53,160 --> 00:02:55,760 got I mean, I've got I can walk up there 78 00:02:55,760 --> 00:02:57,480 with you. I can I can in person. 79 00:02:57,480 --> 00:02:59,400 >> them here. Yeah, I can walk up there. 80 00:02:59,400 --> 00:03:01,949 Let me 81 00:03:01,959 --> 00:03:03,200 Let's see if we can get it back up 82 00:03:03,200 --> 00:03:06,830 there. 83 00:03:06,840 --> 00:03:08,519 This is one of those cases that 84 00:03:08,519 --> 00:03:09,720 this this is super important to see the 85 00:03:09,720 --> 00:03:26,110 exhibits, right? 86 00:03:26,120 --> 00:03:39,270 Do we know what's causing that? 87 00:03:39,280 --> 00:03:41,000 Well, if if I I can 88 00:03:41,000 --> 00:03:42,519 >> Come on. Yeah, do you want to come up 89 00:03:42,519 --> 00:03:42,720 and 90 00:03:42,720 --> 00:03:44,040 >> Yeah, that's fine. 91 00:03:44,040 --> 00:03:47,040 kind of show me here? Yeah. 92 00:03:47,040 --> 00:03:48,200 Um 93 00:03:48,200 --> 00:03:49,320 Let's see. 94 00:03:49,320 --> 00:03:51,400 How do we 95 00:03:51,400 --> 00:03:54,240 Just speak into Okay, sure. Um what 96 00:03:54,240 --> 00:04:00,870 we're looking at is 97 00:04:00,880 --> 00:04:02,800 I want to maybe pull them out real quick 98 00:04:02,800 --> 00:04:03,440 and then we'll just look at them all 99 00:04:03,440 --> 00:04:07,910 together as easy to look at. 100 00:04:07,920 --> 00:04:09,800 And then those all go together. Yeah, 101 00:04:09,800 --> 00:04:11,520 that's all the same. 102 00:04:11,520 --> 00:04:27,950 And then there's B. 103 00:04:27,960 --> 00:04:30,080 Are you coming up? 104 00:04:30,080 --> 00:04:33,680 Get you an extra microphone. Okay. 105 00:04:33,680 --> 00:04:35,760 Sure, if you can't if if we're not 106 00:04:35,760 --> 00:04:37,280 getting picked up, just let me know and 107 00:04:37,280 --> 00:04:38,160 we'll 108 00:04:38,160 --> 00:04:40,320 try harder. Okay. Yeah, so basically 109 00:04:40,320 --> 00:04:41,360 we're looking at here, this is an 110 00:04:41,360 --> 00:04:43,480 existing subdivision that when it was 111 00:04:43,480 --> 00:04:45,280 built, they've got the the roads the 112 00:04:45,280 --> 00:04:47,280 access is down at the bottom of the kind 113 00:04:47,280 --> 00:04:48,560 of the valley. What that is it's 114 00:04:48,560 --> 00:04:50,840 actually a wash that runs through there. 115 00:04:50,840 --> 00:04:52,280 And so that's that's kind of the the 116 00:04:52,280 --> 00:04:54,000 criteria we're working with. 117 00:04:54,000 --> 00:04:56,280 And and what what we're trying to do is 118 00:04:56,280 --> 00:04:57,040 um 119 00:04:57,040 --> 00:05:00,200 so the the owner, 120 00:05:00,200 --> 00:05:01,919 the guy who purchased the property, he's 121 00:05:01,919 --> 00:05:04,240 looking at building a couple house 122 00:05:04,240 --> 00:05:06,880 And based on the the topography the the 123 00:05:06,880 --> 00:05:09,040 safest best spot for this house that 124 00:05:09,040 --> 00:05:10,919 we're trying to access which is 125 00:05:10,919 --> 00:05:12,720 here on the in the page. 126 00:05:12,720 --> 00:05:14,080 That's that's basically here. 127 00:05:14,080 --> 00:05:16,280 >> We have the screen back if if that 128 00:05:16,280 --> 00:05:18,080 helps. 129 00:05:18,080 --> 00:05:21,400 Well, I can I can I'm more comfortable here 130 00:05:21,400 --> 00:05:21,960 honestly. 131 00:05:21,960 --> 00:05:24,000 >> Yeah, we can we'll Yeah, let's Okay. Go 132 00:05:24,000 --> 00:05:26,000 ahead. Yeah, so so we're again if 133 00:05:26,000 --> 00:05:28,480 >> lot eight is here and that's where the 134 00:05:28,480 --> 00:05:30,040 house is. Right, that's where the house 135 00:05:30,040 --> 00:05:32,040 is and so you can see from the 136 00:05:32,040 --> 00:05:33,560 topography that there's a there's a big 137 00:05:33,560 --> 00:05:36,400 elevation difference out here. And yeah, 138 00:05:36,400 --> 00:05:38,120 this is kind of up towards the top of 139 00:05:38,120 --> 00:05:39,400 the hill kind of a nice spot that gives 140 00:05:39,400 --> 00:05:41,000 him the best view. And so what we're 141 00:05:41,000 --> 00:05:43,120 looking at is um 142 00:05:43,120 --> 00:05:44,680 where the the end of the cul-de-sac is 143 00:05:44,680 --> 00:05:46,360 now, you You kind of see that here and 144 00:05:46,360 --> 00:05:48,320 all these is um 145 00:05:48,320 --> 00:05:50,280 is not in the 30% zone. 146 00:05:50,280 --> 00:05:51,840 Um where the house is at is not in the 147 00:05:51,840 --> 00:05:52,960 30% zone. 148 00:05:52,960 --> 00:05:54,360 >> cul-de-sac 149 00:05:54,360 --> 00:05:54,920 existent? 150 00:05:54,920 --> 00:05:58,280 >> It's existing. Yeah, if you look um 151 00:05:58,280 --> 00:05:59,920 this is the existing you can see it 152 00:05:59,920 --> 00:06:03,920 here. The the lighter gray is existing the the 153 00:06:03,920 --> 00:06:06,120 dark the black is proposed. 154 00:06:06,120 --> 00:06:07,040 That's how you'd look at it and then 155 00:06:07,040 --> 00:06:09,320 mark up what you want. And then 156 00:06:09,320 --> 00:06:12,040 so both um 157 00:06:12,040 --> 00:06:14,000 so the house itself is is outside of the 158 00:06:14,000 --> 00:06:16,760 30% zone and the road uh the cul-de-sac 159 00:06:16,760 --> 00:06:18,800 is outside of the 30% percent zone. 160 00:06:18,800 --> 00:06:20,600 There's a um 161 00:06:20,600 --> 00:06:22,400 there's like a an outcropping or a 162 00:06:22,400 --> 00:06:24,680 there's a place where the 30% zone jets 163 00:06:24,680 --> 00:06:26,360 out in between them. 164 00:06:26,360 --> 00:06:28,480 And so the reason why we looked at these three 165 00:06:28,480 --> 00:06:30,280 options was because 166 00:06:30,280 --> 00:06:32,919 um if you look at so you have these 167 00:06:32,919 --> 00:06:34,880 three options. There's option A, option 168 00:06:34,880 --> 00:06:38,400 B, and option C. So um option C is is 169 00:06:38,400 --> 00:06:40,680 obviously the one that we we prefer. 170 00:06:40,680 --> 00:06:42,200 And that's shown 171 00:06:42,200 --> 00:06:43,120 this one. 172 00:06:43,120 --> 00:06:44,800 And what you'll notice is if you look at 173 00:06:44,800 --> 00:06:47,200 the black marks you can kind of see how 174 00:06:47,200 --> 00:06:49,360 the extent of disturbance for option C 175 00:06:49,360 --> 00:06:52,880 is much less than A and B. 176 00:06:52,880 --> 00:06:56,000 And it's a more direct route um 177 00:06:56,000 --> 00:06:57,760 basically what it does is is 178 00:06:57,760 --> 00:06:59,520 >> You're you're talking the disturbance is 179 00:06:59,520 --> 00:07:02,480 less because it's a straighter line from 180 00:07:02,480 --> 00:07:05,080 the cul-de-sac to the 181 00:07:05,080 --> 00:07:06,000 Yeah. Yeah, so 182 00:07:06,000 --> 00:07:07,919 >> house uh so essentially a couple of 183 00:07:07,919 --> 00:07:12,040 things. Yeah, if you'll notice where the elevation of the cul-de-sac is is 184 00:07:12,040 --> 00:07:14,440 higher at this point. 185 00:07:14,440 --> 00:07:16,360 It's close to the elevation of the house 186 00:07:16,360 --> 00:07:17,800 and so uh 187 00:07:17,800 --> 00:07:19,800 if if you start at that spot to get to 188 00:07:19,800 --> 00:07:21,720 the house 189 00:07:21,720 --> 00:07:24,040 if you if you were to go if you if you 190 00:07:24,040 --> 00:07:25,800 go outside of the 30% zone you can kind 191 00:07:25,800 --> 00:07:30,880 of see we end up going back towards the access road and so that brings us 192 00:07:30,880 --> 00:07:33,000 further down in elevation. And so when 193 00:07:33,000 --> 00:07:34,680 you go that when you do that then I've 194 00:07:34,680 --> 00:07:37,440 got to make this the road steeper which 195 00:07:37,440 --> 00:07:39,760 requires pavement which requires a lot 196 00:07:39,760 --> 00:07:41,480 more disturbance and grading just to try 197 00:07:41,480 --> 00:07:43,960 to make those elevations work. The way 198 00:07:43,960 --> 00:07:47,840 the reason why the why C works or the the variance works is because it's 199 00:07:47,840 --> 00:07:49,680 running parallel to the contours. So, 200 00:07:49,680 --> 00:07:52,040 like when you see gosh, like a like a 201 00:07:52,040 --> 00:07:54,040 dugway is is a a term they use when you 202 00:07:54,040 --> 00:07:55,520 when you're going up the side of a hill, 203 00:07:55,520 --> 00:07:57,080 you try to go parallel to the to the 204 00:07:57,080 --> 00:07:59,400 slope, not perpendicular. When you go 205 00:07:59,400 --> 00:08:01,400 perpendicular, then then it requires big 206 00:08:01,400 --> 00:08:04,400 excavation or big fill. While parallel 207 00:08:04,400 --> 00:08:06,240 kind of minimizes, you know, you cut one 208 00:08:06,240 --> 00:08:08,560 side, fill the other. 209 00:08:08,560 --> 00:08:12,160 And so, you know, the the architect had had probably come up with 15 210 00:08:12,160 --> 00:08:13,600 different options. 211 00:08:13,600 --> 00:08:15,600 And really, the only one that really 212 00:08:15,600 --> 00:08:19,360 makes sense from a well, one that makes the most 213 00:08:19,360 --> 00:08:23,080 sense from an engineering standpoint is option C. But, as part of the you 214 00:08:23,080 --> 00:08:24,520 know, 215 00:08:24,520 --> 00:08:27,760 wanted to go back to some of this with with Niles put here. 216 00:08:27,760 --> 00:08:29,440 You've got on this second page where it 217 00:08:29,440 --> 00:08:31,320 talks about the owner's background, 218 00:08:31,320 --> 00:08:34,240 there's A, B, C, and D. And so, you 219 00:08:34,240 --> 00:08:35,960 know, based on you know, my work with 220 00:08:35,960 --> 00:08:38,000 the the architect, we feel like 221 00:08:38,000 --> 00:08:39,760 all of those those four elements are 222 00:08:39,760 --> 00:08:42,719 best served with option C. 223 00:08:42,719 --> 00:08:44,920 In the sense of, you know, you're trying 224 00:08:44,920 --> 00:08:46,200 to conserve the value of the properties 225 00:08:46,200 --> 00:08:48,080 near the grading activities. There's two 226 00:08:48,080 --> 00:08:50,200 lots that are across the road. And so, 227 00:08:50,200 --> 00:08:51,320 if you're I was the owner of the two 228 00:08:51,320 --> 00:08:53,000 lots across the road, 229 00:08:53,000 --> 00:08:54,160 there'd be less visual impact with 230 00:08:54,160 --> 00:08:57,640 option C than A or B. 231 00:08:57,640 --> 00:08:58,760 Because they're disturbing less. Just 232 00:08:58,760 --> 00:08:59,680 the area is less. 233 00:08:59,680 --> 00:09:01,600 >> Just total ground disturbance. 234 00:09:01,600 --> 00:09:03,440 >> Ground disturbance. So, what's tough is 235 00:09:03,440 --> 00:09:05,640 you've got creosote and other vegetation 236 00:09:05,640 --> 00:09:10,440 that takes a long time to to grow and kind of Um, I'm sorry, creosote. Got 237 00:09:10,440 --> 00:09:12,760 um juniper and other small shrubs. You 238 00:09:12,760 --> 00:09:14,080 knock those out, then they're going to 239 00:09:14,080 --> 00:09:19,680 be take gosh, 50 years to grow back to a similar spot. 240 00:09:19,680 --> 00:09:20,960 Um, 241 00:09:20,960 --> 00:09:22,680 and then also, 242 00:09:22,680 --> 00:09:24,760 by being further up here, 243 00:09:24,760 --> 00:09:26,560 uh the visual impact is further away 244 00:09:26,560 --> 00:09:28,120 from the lots here below. So, you you 245 00:09:28,120 --> 00:09:31,160 you're less likely to see the impact. 246 00:09:31,160 --> 00:09:34,520 Um, So, what they would see 247 00:09:34,520 --> 00:09:36,800 on these options 248 00:09:36,800 --> 00:09:38,560 would be more of 249 00:09:38,560 --> 00:09:39,280 All of this. 250 00:09:39,280 --> 00:09:41,360 >> All of this driveway, yeah. And then And 251 00:09:41,360 --> 00:09:42,760 then same thing on this one here. You 252 00:09:42,760 --> 00:09:44,360 They're going to see 253 00:09:44,360 --> 00:09:46,800 basically the the driveway 254 00:09:46,800 --> 00:09:48,360 basically touches two spots on the 255 00:09:48,360 --> 00:09:50,400 existing road. While the variance is 256 00:09:50,400 --> 00:09:51,560 just one. 257 00:09:51,560 --> 00:09:52,680 Um 258 00:09:52,680 --> 00:09:55,120 I I I think what you look at is 259 00:09:55,120 --> 00:09:56,480 um 260 00:09:56,480 --> 00:09:58,280 So, that's that That's why I say D seems 261 00:09:58,280 --> 00:10:00,840 like it it provides the best visual 262 00:10:00,840 --> 00:10:02,440 least visual impact than the other 263 00:10:02,440 --> 00:10:03,760 options. 264 00:10:03,760 --> 00:10:05,880 Um for C, you know, enhance the value of 265 00:10:05,880 --> 00:10:08,280 the new development. Again, I I think 266 00:10:08,280 --> 00:10:10,200 part of this too is is the the owner 267 00:10:10,200 --> 00:10:13,760 would like to keep this as natural looking as possible. 268 00:10:13,760 --> 00:10:15,320 Providing option C allows us to do it 269 00:10:15,320 --> 00:10:17,760 with a a grade that's less than 10% and 270 00:10:17,760 --> 00:10:19,720 that would not require paving the road. 271 00:10:19,720 --> 00:10:23,080 A and B require pavement. And so, that means, you know, you're going to 272 00:10:23,080 --> 00:10:24,600 see the pavement. 273 00:10:24,600 --> 00:10:26,160 You say paving the road, you're talking 274 00:10:26,160 --> 00:10:27,240 about the proposed 275 00:10:27,240 --> 00:10:28,680 >> Yeah. Yeah, we would we would need 276 00:10:28,680 --> 00:10:30,920 asphalt in the driveway. If we do C, we 277 00:10:30,920 --> 00:10:33,000 can keep it as as a road base. That was 278 00:10:33,000 --> 00:10:34,960 the preference of the 279 00:10:34,960 --> 00:10:35,920 I don't know, you know, try to match 280 00:10:35,920 --> 00:10:38,240 that the color. 281 00:10:38,240 --> 00:10:39,480 Okay. 282 00:10:39,480 --> 00:10:41,760 I think I've I've You can go back. 283 00:10:41,760 --> 00:10:43,800 >> Okay. No, I think I've got 284 00:10:43,800 --> 00:10:45,920 the lay of the land here. Sorry. It's 285 00:10:45,920 --> 00:10:47,760 complex. 286 00:10:47,760 --> 00:10:50,280 As you can see. 287 00:10:50,280 --> 00:10:51,839 When engineers show up, it's always 288 00:10:51,839 --> 00:10:57,190 complex, right? 289 00:10:57,200 --> 00:11:02,440 Okay. So, con- continue with with I'll have some questions about each of 290 00:11:02,440 --> 00:11:04,480 these elements, but 291 00:11:04,480 --> 00:11:05,600 um 292 00:11:05,600 --> 00:11:07,520 Oh, please go ahead and 293 00:11:07,520 --> 00:11:08,720 continue telling me what you were 294 00:11:08,720 --> 00:11:11,360 telling me on 295 00:11:11,360 --> 00:11:13,720 You're referring to the the town's 296 00:11:13,720 --> 00:11:15,240 memorandum and the 297 00:11:15,240 --> 00:11:16,280 >> Yes. 298 00:11:16,280 --> 00:11:17,920 sorry. On on the second 299 00:11:17,920 --> 00:11:20,800 >> purpose of the ordinance. Right. And so, 300 00:11:20,800 --> 00:11:22,000 um 301 00:11:22,000 --> 00:11:23,960 we first talked about there was was 302 00:11:23,960 --> 00:11:25,880 going through D, you know, which is you 303 00:11:25,880 --> 00:11:27,680 know, the the visual impacts. 304 00:11:27,680 --> 00:11:29,960 Um C is very similar. 305 00:11:29,960 --> 00:11:31,040 You You 306 00:11:31,040 --> 00:11:33,120 the the the property owner would like to 307 00:11:33,120 --> 00:11:36,560 reduce impacts to to other neighbors and themselves and keep the area as 308 00:11:36,560 --> 00:11:38,120 natural as possible. 309 00:11:38,120 --> 00:11:40,760 That that's pretty straightforward. Um, 310 00:11:40,760 --> 00:11:41,880 these all more conserve the visual 311 00:11:41,880 --> 00:11:45,000 character of grading sites and settings. 312 00:11:45,000 --> 00:11:48,000 You know, along the same lines. Um, 313 00:11:48,000 --> 00:11:50,880 A is interesting because if you look at 314 00:11:50,880 --> 00:11:53,200 um, C which is the variance option, it 315 00:11:53,200 --> 00:11:55,040 has the the the shortest retaining 316 00:11:55,040 --> 00:11:57,440 walls, the shortest um, elevation 317 00:11:57,440 --> 00:11:59,520 change, the smallest elevation changes 318 00:11:59,520 --> 00:12:00,840 in the road. 319 00:12:00,840 --> 00:12:02,520 Sorry, finished grade versus existing 320 00:12:02,520 --> 00:12:05,400 grade. Options A and B have much more. 321 00:12:05,400 --> 00:12:06,760 You can see they've got, you know, 8 322 00:12:06,760 --> 00:12:08,480 9-ft walls, you know, as high as we can 323 00:12:08,480 --> 00:12:11,760 possibly make them. Those are required 324 00:12:11,760 --> 00:12:13,800 again because you're going from the 325 00:12:13,800 --> 00:12:16,120 elevation of the cul-de-sac, going back 326 00:12:16,120 --> 00:12:17,480 down towards existing road which is 327 00:12:17,480 --> 00:12:19,080 lower and then having to jump back up to 328 00:12:19,080 --> 00:12:20,680 a higher elevation. 329 00:12:20,680 --> 00:12:22,000 And so from from an engineering 330 00:12:22,000 --> 00:12:24,520 perspective, I feel like the disturbance 331 00:12:24,520 --> 00:12:27,080 within the 30% ground 332 00:12:27,080 --> 00:12:28,800 actually is less disturbance and safer 333 00:12:28,800 --> 00:12:32,040 than, you know, some taller walls. 334 00:12:32,040 --> 00:12:33,240 And you so so that the walls are 335 00:12:33,240 --> 00:12:35,360 shorter. 336 00:12:35,360 --> 00:12:36,800 And then one thing that the architect 337 00:12:36,800 --> 00:12:39,480 really wanted to point out was the um, 338 00:12:39,480 --> 00:12:41,080 the cut and fill or the the amount of 339 00:12:41,080 --> 00:12:42,200 grading 340 00:12:42,200 --> 00:12:45,200 on option C versus A and B. 341 00:12:45,200 --> 00:12:47,160 C is significantly less than A and B. 342 00:12:47,160 --> 00:12:48,560 So, same thing, the amount of earth 343 00:12:48,560 --> 00:12:50,640 disturbed 344 00:12:50,640 --> 00:12:52,160 is there. 345 00:12:52,160 --> 00:12:57,080 So, option C is the best option save for the fact 346 00:12:57,080 --> 00:12:58,960 that it 347 00:12:58,960 --> 00:13:01,920 goes across the 30% slope. Sure. And and 348 00:13:01,920 --> 00:13:04,040 I think I mean, 349 00:13:04,040 --> 00:13:05,920 just my professional opinion, 350 00:13:05,920 --> 00:13:09,200 the the the number 30% it's somewhat 351 00:13:09,200 --> 00:13:12,880 arbitrary in the sense, you know, is 31% 352 00:13:12,880 --> 00:13:16,320 any worse than 27% as far as disturbing? 353 00:13:16,320 --> 00:13:17,839 Inherently, no. 354 00:13:17,839 --> 00:13:19,600 So, I I don't I understand 30 is kind of 355 00:13:19,600 --> 00:13:21,720 a point that's used, but in this case 356 00:13:21,720 --> 00:13:24,080 where it's it's an outcropping of 30%, 357 00:13:24,080 --> 00:13:26,280 you've got lower slopes on both sides. 358 00:13:26,280 --> 00:13:29,040 It's kind of just a pass through that 359 00:13:29,040 --> 00:13:33,000 You know, we do walls and we do work all 360 00:13:33,000 --> 00:13:38,560 the time. So, if we look at Could we pull up that option 361 00:13:38,560 --> 00:13:45,310 C? 362 00:13:45,320 --> 00:13:47,720 Is there anything on these that that 363 00:13:47,720 --> 00:13:51,200 shows the amount of 364 00:13:51,200 --> 00:13:51,680 Yes. 365 00:13:51,680 --> 00:13:53,320 >> of 30% slope? 366 00:13:53,320 --> 00:13:55,720 >> Yeah, if you look it's it's Go to Scroll 367 00:13:55,720 --> 00:13:57,120 up, please. 368 00:13:57,120 --> 00:14:01,070 The next uh next figure. 369 00:14:01,080 --> 00:14:03,320 Uh go one more. Okay, right here. If you 370 00:14:03,320 --> 00:14:04,880 look, Brian, you see that the hatched 371 00:14:04,880 --> 00:14:06,880 area where you've got the crosshatch 372 00:14:06,880 --> 00:14:08,960 there? That's the 30% we're talking 373 00:14:08,960 --> 00:14:10,920 about. 374 00:14:10,920 --> 00:14:13,440 So, it it's strictly it it again it kind 375 00:14:13,440 --> 00:14:15,000 of shoots out towards existing road 376 00:14:15,000 --> 00:14:17,440 there and it it's not there 377 00:14:17,440 --> 00:14:19,040 further south or north. It's just that 378 00:14:19,040 --> 00:14:20,480 one spot. 379 00:14:20,480 --> 00:14:22,080 And so, to avoid it, I've got to bring 380 00:14:22,080 --> 00:14:24,480 that road, you know, 381 00:14:24,480 --> 00:14:26,680 based on the contour that's 10, 15 ft 382 00:14:26,680 --> 00:14:38,790 lower and then go back up. 383 00:14:38,800 --> 00:14:40,360 Just for reference, we met with the fire 384 00:14:40,360 --> 00:14:42,240 marshal and and he actually preferred 385 00:14:42,240 --> 00:14:43,800 this option C for us from a safety 386 00:14:43,800 --> 00:14:45,400 standpoint. 387 00:14:45,400 --> 00:14:46,760 Well, 388 00:14:46,760 --> 00:14:50,240 let me ask this because I I think 389 00:14:50,240 --> 00:14:53,080 as far as the last two elements, I I I 390 00:14:53,080 --> 00:14:56,200 think four and five are met. 391 00:14:56,200 --> 00:14:57,960 Um 392 00:14:57,960 --> 00:14:59,480 based on what you've said, based on the 393 00:14:59,480 --> 00:15:01,360 amount of disturbance of the of the 394 00:15:01,360 --> 00:15:03,160 other options, 395 00:15:03,160 --> 00:15:03,960 um 396 00:15:03,960 --> 00:15:07,240 I see. where where what I'm looking at 397 00:15:07,240 --> 00:15:11,080 is 398 00:15:11,080 --> 00:15:13,160 basically number one, the unreasonable 399 00:15:13,160 --> 00:15:16,240 hardship. Help me 400 00:15:16,240 --> 00:15:21,510 understand that cuz in the application 401 00:15:21,520 --> 00:15:23,520 in the narrative that was given it it's 402 00:15:23,520 --> 00:15:26,430 almost 403 00:15:26,440 --> 00:15:29,480 like the applicant is conceding that 404 00:15:29,480 --> 00:15:31,760 there's not an unreasonable hardship. I 405 00:15:31,760 --> 00:15:35,080 mean the the first thing that it says is 406 00:15:35,080 --> 00:15:37,120 it is not an unreasonable hardship to 407 00:15:37,120 --> 00:15:39,480 our client's project in terms of of 408 00:15:39,480 --> 00:15:41,640 costs. And then the next paragraph, the 409 00:15:41,640 --> 00:15:43,440 unreasonable hardship and in 410 00:15:43,440 --> 00:15:46,920 parentheses, if one exists, 411 00:15:46,920 --> 00:15:50,960 so I'm trying to get a sense of what 412 00:15:50,960 --> 00:15:53,520 if if the variance is not granted, what 413 00:15:53,520 --> 00:15:56,360 the hardship is given that there's 414 00:15:56,360 --> 00:16:04,560 two other options, even though they're not as good of an option as the third one. 415 00:16:04,560 --> 00:16:07,240 Um how do I find that there's an 416 00:16:07,240 --> 00:16:08,840 unreasonable hardship? That's what I'm 417 00:16:08,840 --> 00:16:10,840 struggling with. No, I understand. I I I 418 00:16:10,840 --> 00:16:12,320 think the way I maybe I would describe 419 00:16:12,320 --> 00:16:14,280 it it as being the hardship is just 420 00:16:14,280 --> 00:16:16,160 basically 421 00:16:16,160 --> 00:16:18,560 I would say the the reduced safety 422 00:16:18,560 --> 00:16:21,040 that that that happens with options A 423 00:16:21,040 --> 00:16:23,040 and B versus C. That would mean you've 424 00:16:23,040 --> 00:16:26,360 got higher walls, you've got um this 425 00:16:26,360 --> 00:16:28,000 scenario you've got steeper slopes, so 426 00:16:28,000 --> 00:16:29,280 you know, in a 427 00:16:29,280 --> 00:16:31,000 gosh, in a in a big storm event or 428 00:16:31,000 --> 00:16:33,600 you've got some sort of a rock fall, 429 00:16:33,600 --> 00:16:36,280 those two are you're putting the road in 430 00:16:36,280 --> 00:16:39,160 a in a less safe condition than what C 431 00:16:39,160 --> 00:16:40,480 would bring. 432 00:16:40,480 --> 00:16:43,160 So in my mind, I that's the hardship 433 00:16:43,160 --> 00:16:44,240 saying it's 434 00:16:44,240 --> 00:16:50,440 you're you're requiring the owner to to make a a less safe 435 00:16:50,440 --> 00:16:53,160 um road than, you know, and and from 436 00:16:53,160 --> 00:16:55,440 fire as well, too, than what we can do 437 00:16:55,440 --> 00:16:56,760 reasonably 438 00:16:56,760 --> 00:16:59,160 with this exception. 439 00:16:59,160 --> 00:17:04,959 Do the other two options, are they fire 440 00:17:04,959 --> 00:17:09,439 code compliant? Uh they are. 441 00:17:09,439 --> 00:17:12,680 So the issue just comes down to 442 00:17:12,680 --> 00:17:14,839 engineering and potentially the the 443 00:17:14,839 --> 00:17:22,280 third option is is safer and disturbs less ground. 444 00:17:22,280 --> 00:17:24,839 And the fire marshal mentioned that that 445 00:17:24,839 --> 00:17:27,560 it allows them to fight the fire better 446 00:17:27,560 --> 00:17:29,640 as far as gives gives them more more 447 00:17:29,640 --> 00:17:31,320 places to fight the fire if there was 448 00:17:31,320 --> 00:17:32,920 one on that house versus the other two. 449 00:17:32,920 --> 00:17:35,400 >> Cuz the the road is closer. The road is 450 00:17:35,400 --> 00:17:37,160 closer. Understood. 451 00:17:37,160 --> 00:17:38,320 I mean 452 00:17:38,320 --> 00:17:40,200 the fire code and what they can do it's 453 00:17:40,200 --> 00:17:42,480 somewhat um 454 00:17:42,480 --> 00:17:44,240 it's somewhat subjective. 455 00:17:44,240 --> 00:17:45,560 But you know, when it when we showed him 456 00:17:45,560 --> 00:17:47,040 these options cuz we wanted to go you 457 00:17:47,040 --> 00:17:48,560 know, independent of the variance it was 458 00:17:48,560 --> 00:17:49,720 just hey, we want to make sure we're 459 00:17:49,720 --> 00:17:52,440 providing access. He said immediately 460 00:17:52,440 --> 00:17:54,920 option C was was he felt was the safest 461 00:17:54,920 --> 00:18:02,670 option. 462 00:18:02,680 --> 00:18:04,760 Okay. 463 00:18:04,760 --> 00:18:07,040 Anything else on hardship? 464 00:18:07,040 --> 00:18:08,560 Um 465 00:18:08,560 --> 00:18:10,440 again I think part of the the concern 466 00:18:10,440 --> 00:18:12,640 here is is because this is an existing 467 00:18:12,640 --> 00:18:14,800 development where the road is at is 468 00:18:14,800 --> 00:18:16,280 where I would probably I wouldn't have 469 00:18:16,280 --> 00:18:18,640 put it because you got 500 CFS going 470 00:18:18,640 --> 00:18:20,240 through that wash there. It's not the 471 00:18:20,240 --> 00:18:21,520 it's probably the easiest place to build 472 00:18:21,520 --> 00:18:23,080 it but not the best place to build it 473 00:18:23,080 --> 00:18:25,480 and so because we're stuck with the road 474 00:18:25,480 --> 00:18:26,800 that's there in a place that probably 475 00:18:26,800 --> 00:18:29,320 isn't the best place. 476 00:18:29,320 --> 00:18:31,600 He's working with with a a bad condition 477 00:18:31,600 --> 00:18:33,680 to start out. When you say the road 478 00:18:33,680 --> 00:18:34,640 you're talking about 479 00:18:34,640 --> 00:18:36,480 >> the the main road. existing road. Right, 480 00:18:36,480 --> 00:18:38,720 the place that he's got to start from. 481 00:18:38,720 --> 00:18:40,800 It's it's in the bottom of the wash. So 482 00:18:40,800 --> 00:18:42,840 in a in a large flood in a in a 100 year 483 00:18:42,840 --> 00:18:44,760 flood event you got 500 CFS running 484 00:18:44,760 --> 00:18:46,760 through there. The the road potentially 485 00:18:46,760 --> 00:18:49,200 over tops. 486 00:18:49,200 --> 00:18:50,240 Do you know when that road was 487 00:18:50,240 --> 00:18:52,200 constructed? It would have been like 488 00:18:52,200 --> 00:18:54,840 early 2000s maybe five or six now, 489 00:18:54,840 --> 00:18:56,360 something like that. 490 00:18:56,360 --> 00:18:58,640 I believe it was just the early 2000s, 491 00:18:58,640 --> 00:19:03,390 yeah. 492 00:19:03,400 --> 00:19:04,760 Are there other 493 00:19:04,760 --> 00:19:07,520 lots 494 00:19:07,520 --> 00:19:11,470 I mean we've got we've got 495 00:19:11,480 --> 00:19:14,080 You guys see eight. This was also a 496 00:19:14,080 --> 00:19:16,280 request for variance on 11, but I don't 497 00:19:16,280 --> 00:19:19,000 see where lot 498 00:19:19,000 --> 00:19:21,440 Well, there's 11. 499 00:19:21,440 --> 00:19:23,640 isn't necessarily I mean 500 00:19:23,640 --> 00:19:25,440 11 will will use that cul-de-sac, but I 501 00:19:25,440 --> 00:19:28,000 don't think it's 11 is is specifically 502 00:19:28,000 --> 00:19:29,360 impacted by 503 00:19:29,360 --> 00:19:32,200 the driveway for eight. 504 00:19:32,200 --> 00:19:33,600 I mean, it might impact where the where 505 00:19:33,600 --> 00:19:35,040 the fire hydrant would go or something 506 00:19:35,040 --> 00:19:37,920 like that. I don't think 11 is probably 507 00:19:37,920 --> 00:19:39,480 I mean, we're we're changing sorry, 508 00:19:39,480 --> 00:19:41,840 we're we're adjusting the lot line. So, 509 00:19:41,840 --> 00:19:44,400 the lot the access goes through lot 11 510 00:19:44,400 --> 00:19:46,200 to get to eight. 511 00:19:46,200 --> 00:19:50,200 And Mr. Burnett owns both those lots. Uh 512 00:19:50,200 --> 00:19:52,480 Shawn Honecker is is the Mr. Burnett's 513 00:19:52,480 --> 00:19:53,240 the architect. 514 00:19:53,240 --> 00:19:53,920 >> Oh, okay. 515 00:19:53,920 --> 00:19:55,320 >> Yeah, he actually owns all the lots in 516 00:19:55,320 --> 00:19:58,550 the subdivision. 517 00:19:58,560 --> 00:20:00,360 Do any of the other lots in the 518 00:20:00,360 --> 00:20:03,880 subdivision have the same 519 00:20:03,880 --> 00:20:05,800 access issue? 520 00:20:05,800 --> 00:20:08,880 No, but but what you're looking at is um 521 00:20:08,880 --> 00:20:10,320 when the when the plat was recorded, 522 00:20:10,320 --> 00:20:11,280 there were there were pods that were 523 00:20:11,280 --> 00:20:13,080 established where the the developer 524 00:20:13,080 --> 00:20:15,040 intended the development to happen. And 525 00:20:15,040 --> 00:20:16,320 again, if you look at those pods, 526 00:20:16,320 --> 00:20:20,120 they're down there at the bottom of the ravine. So, those are the ones that 527 00:20:20,120 --> 00:20:21,880 are most most subject to erosion and 528 00:20:21,880 --> 00:20:24,160 flooding. And so, if he were to do the 529 00:20:24,160 --> 00:20:26,120 lots, you know, not nine and 10 that are 530 00:20:26,120 --> 00:20:28,600 across the road, then we would be doing 531 00:20:28,600 --> 00:20:31,990 a similar condition there, too. 532 00:20:32,000 --> 00:20:33,880 Just because it's it's just not the 533 00:20:33,880 --> 00:20:34,960 Again, 534 00:20:34,960 --> 00:20:37,160 I wouldn't recommend putting those 535 00:20:37,160 --> 00:20:38,160 lots there even though they're maybe the 536 00:20:38,160 --> 00:20:39,600 easiest to develop, they're not the the 537 00:20:39,600 --> 00:20:43,590 safest. 538 00:20:43,600 --> 00:20:45,720 So, is 539 00:20:45,720 --> 00:20:47,200 and I guess we'll see when we go out 540 00:20:47,200 --> 00:20:48,840 there, but it is 541 00:20:48,840 --> 00:20:51,480 the subdivision was started, but but en 542 00:20:51,480 --> 00:20:54,040 platted, but never 543 00:20:54,040 --> 00:20:56,120 nothing was ever built? No, the 544 00:20:56,120 --> 00:20:57,640 subdivision was complete with with the 545 00:20:57,640 --> 00:20:59,320 utilities, but but there weren't any 546 00:20:59,320 --> 00:20:59,880 houses. 547 00:20:59,880 --> 00:21:01,080 >> Yeah, that that is what I was asking. 548 00:21:01,080 --> 00:21:03,280 There's no structures there. There's an 549 00:21:03,280 --> 00:21:05,520 existing structure where we have the a 550 00:21:05,520 --> 00:21:07,400 eight guest house. There's like a some 551 00:21:07,400 --> 00:21:09,240 footings and some um there's some 552 00:21:09,240 --> 00:21:11,080 improvements and some grading was there 553 00:21:11,080 --> 00:21:12,440 and I don't know if that person, you 554 00:21:12,440 --> 00:21:14,240 know, went out of business or ran out of 555 00:21:14,240 --> 00:21:16,280 money. 556 00:21:16,280 --> 00:21:19,800 That's all within like the 2005-2010 557 00:21:19,800 --> 00:21:21,400 time frame. So, nothing's happened out 558 00:21:21,400 --> 00:21:36,230 there for 15 years. 559 00:21:36,240 --> 00:21:38,240 Mr. 560 00:21:38,240 --> 00:21:39,880 Well, is there anything else you wanted 561 00:21:39,880 --> 00:21:42,440 to add? 562 00:21:42,440 --> 00:21:45,160 Just basically I mean 563 00:21:45,160 --> 00:21:46,360 I think part of 564 00:21:46,360 --> 00:21:47,960 one one challenge with the code the city 565 00:21:47,960 --> 00:21:50,280 has is is it allows for a concession for 566 00:21:50,280 --> 00:21:52,720 30% slope and other conditions say for 567 00:21:52,720 --> 00:21:54,880 building a house or for structures, 568 00:21:54,880 --> 00:21:56,720 but it specifically says not for an 569 00:21:56,720 --> 00:21:57,800 access road and I don't I don't 570 00:21:57,800 --> 00:21:59,600 understand why that would be 571 00:21:59,600 --> 00:22:01,240 inherently different than a building as 572 00:22:01,240 --> 00:22:03,880 far as access through the 30% zone. 573 00:22:03,880 --> 00:22:06,280 So, it seems like an arbitrary reason 574 00:22:06,280 --> 00:22:08,000 not to allow it or it doesn't seem like 575 00:22:08,000 --> 00:22:09,200 a 576 00:22:09,200 --> 00:22:10,200 from an engineering standpoint or 577 00:22:10,200 --> 00:22:12,200 planning standpoint I wouldn't see why 578 00:22:12,200 --> 00:22:15,160 that reason is specifically inherently 579 00:22:15,160 --> 00:22:17,840 different from from building. 580 00:22:17,840 --> 00:22:18,960 So, meaning that like I could build in 581 00:22:18,960 --> 00:22:21,120 the 30% zone with with some concessions. 582 00:22:21,120 --> 00:22:22,560 I it says specifically that I can't 583 00:22:22,560 --> 00:22:24,000 build a road. So, I don't that doesn't 584 00:22:24,000 --> 00:22:25,960 make sense to me. 585 00:22:25,960 --> 00:22:27,200 Road or a 586 00:22:27,200 --> 00:22:28,920 driveway you can 587 00:22:28,920 --> 00:22:31,360 I see what you're saying. 588 00:22:31,360 --> 00:22:33,830 Okay. 589 00:22:33,840 --> 00:22:35,080 Mr. 590 00:22:35,080 --> 00:22:37,240 Conley, does the town have a position on 591 00:22:37,240 --> 00:22:40,950 the application? 592 00:22:40,960 --> 00:22:44,600 Um so, we've been working with the the 593 00:22:44,600 --> 00:22:50,520 applicants on pre-application design for some time and 594 00:22:50,520 --> 00:22:53,720 they've provided different options. 595 00:22:53,720 --> 00:22:55,000 Obviously, this was their preferred 596 00:22:55,000 --> 00:22:57,960 option and we identified a a conflict 597 00:22:57,960 --> 00:23:02,120 with the code and explained that this that the 598 00:23:02,120 --> 00:23:04,160 variance process is what they would need 599 00:23:04,160 --> 00:23:05,680 to go through if if they wanted to 600 00:23:05,680 --> 00:23:07,160 proceed with us. 601 00:23:07,160 --> 00:23:08,600 Um 602 00:23:08,600 --> 00:23:11,120 as far as kind of stating a preference 603 00:23:11,120 --> 00:23:13,440 between different options, I I don't 604 00:23:13,440 --> 00:23:16,560 think the town has has a position. I 605 00:23:16,560 --> 00:23:18,680 think it's um 606 00:23:18,680 --> 00:23:21,000 our our position is that we want to go 607 00:23:21,000 --> 00:23:27,320 through the process and make sure that the code is complied with and that the 608 00:23:27,320 --> 00:23:28,960 yeah, the the process is followed 609 00:23:28,960 --> 00:23:32,510 correctly. 610 00:23:32,520 --> 00:23:34,240 So, if if 611 00:23:34,240 --> 00:23:36,520 the variance was denied and they went 612 00:23:36,520 --> 00:23:38,760 with one of these other 613 00:23:38,760 --> 00:23:40,880 two options, 614 00:23:40,880 --> 00:23:42,200 um 615 00:23:42,200 --> 00:23:45,840 would a variance be needed 616 00:23:45,840 --> 00:23:50,590 at some point in in that process? 617 00:23:50,600 --> 00:23:52,320 Do either of you know? 618 00:23:52,320 --> 00:23:54,040 Sorry, I I mean, get given the amount of 619 00:23:54,040 --> 00:23:56,640 disturbance and everything else, 620 00:23:56,640 --> 00:23:59,440 if you couldn't do option three or 621 00:23:59,440 --> 00:24:01,000 option C, 622 00:24:01,000 --> 00:24:04,240 would you need to come back for a 623 00:24:04,240 --> 00:24:06,520 variance to pursue either the other two 624 00:24:06,520 --> 00:24:09,640 options, one or two? My understanding is 625 00:24:09,640 --> 00:24:11,320 that there wouldn't be 626 00:24:11,320 --> 00:24:13,520 another variance required. 627 00:24:13,520 --> 00:24:15,840 I don't think so. I know that option C 628 00:24:15,840 --> 00:24:18,320 was was more developed from a design 629 00:24:18,320 --> 00:24:23,120 standpoint than A and B. I know that B is iffy. It's close cuz cuz with 630 00:24:23,120 --> 00:24:24,680 the 15% rule with the with the fire 631 00:24:24,680 --> 00:24:26,760 department. So, 632 00:24:26,760 --> 00:24:31,750 you know, I don't want to say no. I mean, I think 633 00:24:31,760 --> 00:24:33,800 I at this point, no, but that doesn't 634 00:24:33,800 --> 00:24:35,200 mean they might might find something 635 00:24:35,200 --> 00:24:36,360 when we get into final design that might 636 00:24:36,360 --> 00:24:37,640 come up that 637 00:24:37,640 --> 00:24:38,240 could throw us off. 638 00:24:38,240 --> 00:24:40,120 >> You don't you don't know till you pursue 639 00:24:40,120 --> 00:24:42,960 it and I'll just 640 00:24:42,960 --> 00:24:45,360 cards on the table, it sounds like C is 641 00:24:45,360 --> 00:24:47,720 overall the best 642 00:24:47,720 --> 00:24:50,000 option for many reasons. 643 00:24:50,000 --> 00:24:52,230 Um 644 00:24:52,240 --> 00:24:54,600 it's just whether we can 645 00:24:54,600 --> 00:24:56,520 whether I can get to the the point of it 646 00:24:56,520 --> 00:24:58,960 being an unreasonable hardship as as the 647 00:24:58,960 --> 00:25:01,040 law defines it. 648 00:25:01,040 --> 00:25:06,510 Um 649 00:25:06,520 --> 00:25:09,200 So, anything else to add, Mr. Bates, as 650 00:25:09,200 --> 00:25:11,200 to as to that issue? 651 00:25:11,200 --> 00:25:13,360 Maybe, sorry, I I'm not an attorney. 652 00:25:13,360 --> 00:25:15,600 Explain Explain unreasonable hardship. 653 00:25:15,600 --> 00:25:18,120 How do you define that? 654 00:25:18,120 --> 00:25:21,560 >> An unreasonable hardship is is 655 00:25:21,560 --> 00:25:23,800 can't be self-imposed and it can't be 656 00:25:23,800 --> 00:25:25,360 purely economic. So, there's a 657 00:25:25,360 --> 00:25:28,400 discussion here about about costs, but 658 00:25:28,400 --> 00:25:29,640 costs 659 00:25:29,640 --> 00:25:31,680 can't be an unreasonable 660 00:25:31,680 --> 00:25:34,400 hardship. So, typically, when I when I 661 00:25:34,400 --> 00:25:36,280 find an unreasonable hardship or what we 662 00:25:36,280 --> 00:25:40,920 see in the law is if you can't build 663 00:25:40,920 --> 00:25:45,840 this driveway in a certain location 664 00:25:45,840 --> 00:25:47,800 then there's no other place to put it 665 00:25:47,800 --> 00:25:49,440 and therefore you can't construct a 666 00:25:49,440 --> 00:25:51,800 house. I mean, it it it almost prohibits 667 00:25:51,800 --> 00:25:53,840 development of the property. 668 00:25:53,840 --> 00:25:57,440 Um would be the example I would use. So, 669 00:25:57,440 --> 00:26:00,960 um where we've got two other options 670 00:26:00,960 --> 00:26:03,670 um 671 00:26:03,680 --> 00:26:05,120 I'm trying to work through that in my 672 00:26:05,120 --> 00:26:12,670 mind as far as as what the hardship would be. 673 00:26:12,680 --> 00:26:16,320 And that's kind of where I'm stuck. 674 00:26:16,320 --> 00:26:18,320 Yeah, I mean I I want to give you the 675 00:26:18,320 --> 00:26:20,680 chance to talk to address it. 676 00:26:20,680 --> 00:26:22,720 >> Right. I'm I'm trying the best I can. I 677 00:26:22,720 --> 00:26:24,200 mean, it's 678 00:26:24,200 --> 00:26:28,240 I I think our presentation is mainly 679 00:26:28,240 --> 00:26:30,600 this the spirit of what the code is see 680 00:26:30,600 --> 00:26:32,120 obviously 681 00:26:32,120 --> 00:26:33,120 uh 682 00:26:33,120 --> 00:26:35,080 tries to tries to match that better than 683 00:26:35,080 --> 00:26:39,600 the other two options. And so, if if 684 00:26:39,600 --> 00:26:40,960 I I feel like 685 00:26:40,960 --> 00:26:43,440 the code is is is is lacking in in this 686 00:26:43,440 --> 00:26:48,080 particular situation. 687 00:26:48,080 --> 00:26:49,800 Um 688 00:26:49,800 --> 00:26:51,680 Yeah. 689 00:26:51,680 --> 00:26:53,280 I guess I'll have a good answer for you. 690 00:26:53,280 --> 00:26:55,160 I I I could maybe look at it and and see 691 00:26:55,160 --> 00:26:56,080 if I can come up with something better. 692 00:26:56,080 --> 00:26:59,960 Again, I think we're we're you know, what 693 00:26:59,960 --> 00:27:01,880 what's best for the the homeowner and 694 00:27:01,880 --> 00:27:04,680 everybody is option C. Now, if 695 00:27:04,680 --> 00:27:06,800 we're hung up by the code, then I don't 696 00:27:06,800 --> 00:27:09,600 know what else to say. 697 00:27:09,600 --> 00:27:11,000 Cuz the code should should help 698 00:27:11,000 --> 00:27:13,640 development and should provide the best 699 00:27:13,640 --> 00:27:17,240 option for the city and the and for the public and and in this 700 00:27:17,240 --> 00:27:19,360 case it's not. 701 00:27:19,360 --> 00:27:21,440 I I I understand the argument and maybe 702 00:27:21,440 --> 00:27:25,950 I'm I'm interpreting it 703 00:27:25,960 --> 00:27:28,400 more strictly than Sure. than it should 704 00:27:28,400 --> 00:27:29,720 and I'm 705 00:27:29,720 --> 00:27:32,000 I mean I It was my intention today to 706 00:27:32,000 --> 00:27:36,110 take it under advisement and 707 00:27:36,120 --> 00:27:37,480 now that it's been explained to me to 708 00:27:37,480 --> 00:27:40,880 kind of look further into it before making a 709 00:27:40,880 --> 00:27:43,520 decision, but so you know that's that's 710 00:27:43,520 --> 00:27:45,640 kind of where I'm at and and so the town 711 00:27:45,640 --> 00:27:47,280 knows as well. 712 00:27:47,280 --> 00:27:48,320 Um 713 00:27:48,320 --> 00:27:50,960 Brian, do I have an option to to maybe 714 00:27:50,960 --> 00:27:52,400 provide an an addendum or some 715 00:27:52,400 --> 00:27:53,800 additional information to try to prove 716 00:27:53,800 --> 00:27:57,640 that point? Sure. I mean I 717 00:27:57,640 --> 00:27:59,320 Meaning get with with my architect or or 718 00:27:59,320 --> 00:28:01,080 try to maybe formulate a a better 719 00:28:01,080 --> 00:28:02,560 response. Like I said, I'm kind of 720 00:28:02,560 --> 00:28:03,280 responding on the fly. 721 00:28:03,280 --> 00:28:09,720 >> No, I'm I'm I am open to that and unless you have more for me right now or 722 00:28:09,720 --> 00:28:13,480 unless the town has more 723 00:28:13,480 --> 00:28:16,080 um I I think 724 00:28:16,080 --> 00:28:17,440 I'll 725 00:28:17,440 --> 00:28:19,080 take it under advisement. I would like 726 00:28:19,080 --> 00:28:21,840 to do a site view. It was my intention to do 727 00:28:21,840 --> 00:28:24,200 it before today, but 728 00:28:24,200 --> 00:28:27,550 um 729 00:28:27,560 --> 00:28:29,800 think if we end and then go go out 730 00:28:29,800 --> 00:28:30,840 there. 731 00:28:30,840 --> 00:28:32,480 I don't know if you want to wanted to 732 00:28:32,480 --> 00:28:33,600 come. 733 00:28:33,600 --> 00:28:35,360 Mr. Connelly is representative of the 734 00:28:35,360 --> 00:28:40,520 town. I I don't intend to do anything other than 735 00:28:40,520 --> 00:28:42,640 I'm available if if you'd like me to go. 736 00:28:42,640 --> 00:28:45,440 I'm Yeah, I I I'd be more comfortable if 737 00:28:45,440 --> 00:28:47,880 there was a a representative of the town 738 00:28:47,880 --> 00:28:48,840 since there's going to be a 739 00:28:48,840 --> 00:28:51,280 representative of the applicant. Sure. 740 00:28:51,280 --> 00:28:53,400 Yeah, I can be there. So the town knows 741 00:28:53,400 --> 00:28:57,440 what it what is said and represented 742 00:28:57,440 --> 00:29:01,000 while we're while we're out there since 743 00:29:01,000 --> 00:29:02,975 our court reporter can't travel. 744 00:29:02,975 --> 00:29:03,920 >> [laughter] 745 00:29:03,920 --> 00:29:05,920 >> And then and then I'll take it under 746 00:29:05,920 --> 00:29:07,400 advisement. 747 00:29:07,400 --> 00:29:10,560 And if Mr. 748 00:29:10,560 --> 00:29:11,920 Bates, 749 00:29:11,920 --> 00:29:16,110 um 750 00:29:16,120 --> 00:29:18,040 if I gave you an additional 14 days from 751 00:29:18,040 --> 00:29:19,760 today to submit to the town any 752 00:29:19,760 --> 00:29:22,390 additional 753 00:29:22,400 --> 00:29:24,560 what the issue I'm focused on, is the 754 00:29:24,560 --> 00:29:28,310 town okay with that? 755 00:29:28,320 --> 00:29:31,400 Yes, I I think that's fine. Yeah. Okay. 756 00:29:31,400 --> 00:29:33,000 I I I wasn't aware of anything in our 757 00:29:33,000 --> 00:29:35,400 ordinance that 758 00:29:35,400 --> 00:29:36,960 precluded it. 759 00:29:36,960 --> 00:29:39,470 Um 760 00:29:39,480 --> 00:29:40,840 I think that's totally reasonable. 761 00:29:40,840 --> 00:29:45,040 >> And whether you submit it or not, if if it turns out you don't need to 762 00:29:45,040 --> 00:29:48,800 14 days, I'll just um 763 00:29:48,800 --> 00:29:52,640 either take what you submit or or don't 764 00:29:52,640 --> 00:29:55,120 submit and then 765 00:29:55,120 --> 00:29:57,480 draft my decision from there. That's 766 00:29:57,480 --> 00:30:03,830 totally reasonable. Okay. 767 00:30:03,840 --> 00:30:06,520 All right. Thank you. With that, um 768 00:30:06,520 --> 00:30:08,280 unless there's anything else from either 769 00:30:08,280 --> 00:30:10,000 party, we'll 770 00:30:10,000 --> 00:30:11,920 conclude the hearing. 771 00:30:11,920 --> 00:30:12,960 Thank you. 772 00:30:12,960 --> 00:30:15,160 Thanks.