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It's 5:00 pm and we're at the Canyon

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Community Center for the May 15th

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meeting of the Springdale Planning

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Commission. From the town we have Tom

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Dancy, Kendall Sagers, Nile Connelly,

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and April Ratitz. On the dis we have

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Susan Portland, Zion National Park

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representative, Terry Kruski, myself,

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Jennifer McCulla, and Paul Zimmerman,

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Melissa Labour, Rich Swanson, Tom

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Kennston, and Kosh Bati are out tonight.

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Can I get a motion to approve tonight's

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agenda?

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>> I move that we approve tonight's agenda.

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>> Second.

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>> Motion by Paul, second by Terry. All in

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favor?

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>> Terry, I

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>> Jennifer I.

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>> All I.

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>> Motion passes. Does the town have any

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general announcements?

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» So, we will, excuse me, we will have the

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Zion Hawen Earthfest is this Saturday

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and Sunday of this weekend. And then we

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have a free concert in the park here at

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the gazebo next Friday at 6 PM with Eric

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Dodge.

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Any

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other announcements?

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» Yes, they're having Navy Day at the

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plaza. And uh forgive me, I can't

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remember which day that is.

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>> Tuesday at 6 PM. Yes.

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» Yeah, we're hoping so. And so so Navy

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Day is actually and there's a number of

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events at in Zion National Park with the

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Navy. One of them will be a um well this

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won't be in Zion National Park, but it

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will be up at the OC Tanner

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Amphitheater. There'll be a free uh Navy

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band performance at the OC Tanner

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Amphitheater on Monday night. And then

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the following evening, Tuesday evening,

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that same band will be giving a free

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performance at the town's downtown

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plaza.

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Are there any other announcements?

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Are there any declarations of conflict

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of interest?

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Okay. For tonight's agenda, we have four

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action items, all of which include

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public hearing. We'll follow the public

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meeting rules of order and procedure.

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Please be sure to have signed in to the

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meeting if you intend to speak. And

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please keep in mind that each public

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comment is limited to three minutes.

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The first action item is a public

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hearing regarding ordinance 2026-08

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review of land use ordinance application

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from null Benson proposing an amendment

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to section 10-18-4

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of the town code. The proposed amendment

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would introduce tiered minimum landscape

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and open space requirements based on the

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property size and the village commercial

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zone.

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The staff contact is Nile Connelly and

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Nile will be presenting.

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>> Thank you. So yes, this is a land use

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ordinance amendment application uh

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that's been made by Mr. Null Benson. Uh

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in his application, he's proposed an

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amendment to chapter 18 within title 10

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of the Springdale Town Code. And this

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chapter deals with the town's

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landscaping standards.

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Um in table four, let me bring up the staff report here. So there's this

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table um that lists the minimum

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percentage of a property that must be

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landscaped or natural open space and you

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can see that there's different standards

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depending on the zones.

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Uh Mr. Benson proposes that the minimum

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landscaped landscape standards in the

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village commercial zone be tiered. So

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depending on the size of the property.

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So as you can see um in this table VC

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stands for village commercial. Um and so

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60%

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of village commercial property should be

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either landscaped or natural open space.

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Um the proposal is that

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a tiered um

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landscape requirement be introduced

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based on the size of the property. So

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and it would be so properties of half an

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acre or greater would would remain the

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existing standard and then there would

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be uh reduced standards for smaller

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properties. So between a a fourth of an

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acre and a half an acre it would be 50%

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and then smaller than a fourth of an

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acre would be 40%.

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Um

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as you can see there's tiered landscape

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requirements already in the code uh for

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the central commercial zone which are

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down here and also the valley

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residential zone has has the same kind

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of arrangement here.

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Um so the planning commission should

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review the ordinance amendment proposed

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by Mr. Benson. Um amendments to the code

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can be made if they uh promote more

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fully the objectives and purposes of the

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general plan uh or they correct manifest

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errors or they accomp accommodate

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substantial changes in conditions that

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were not contemplated in the general

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plan. So under any of those

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circumstances, the the code can be

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amended from time to time.

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Um so the commission's role tonight is

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to review this and make a recommendation

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to the town council on either to adopt

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this or not to adopt this. Um and just

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to um draw the commission's attention

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also to there's a number of public

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comments that were made actually on all

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of the different hearings for tonight.

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So, just to draw your attention to those

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that that were sent to you previously,

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um I'd be happy to answer any questions

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that you have.

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» Does the applicant want to present at

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this time?

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» No. Benson, I just want to explain, I

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guess, give a little context to why I'm

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here. Uh, you know, our our family has a

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property in Springdale. It's about a

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quarter acre size and it's zone village

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commercial and we've been trying to

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figure something out on that property

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for coming up on two years and it's been

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very difficult. You know, u I am not a

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developer. I have never developed

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property personally. This be my first

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time doing it. if I'm able to do it. You

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know, we're just residents here in

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Springdale trying to create a business.

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[clears throat] And uh the reason that

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I'm here, I guess more so is that

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the the way the current code functions,

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it really not only regulates, you know,

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what you can do on a property, it regul

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it really points and steers these

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smaller properties to certain things.

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And some of those things can be very

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specific. And so under the current

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conditions, the there's kind of three

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paths that I put in the outline there.

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Um the first path would be

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underdevelopment and that's what I would

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consider it to do kind of the minimum.

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And

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when you're when you're working under

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the current constraints of the

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landscaping in a tiny tiny property like

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this,

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you know, really that that plan points

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to something like yet another bike

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rental because they're very easy to

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produce because you can kind of get away

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sometimes without too much parking and

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you need very little indoor space. And

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that's kind of where that propertyy's

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at. I can get a couple, you know,

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parking spaces and a very tiny building

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on there right now. And that's that's

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not something that I want to do frankly.

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Uh the other option would be

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overdevelopment. So because of the

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constraints of the landscaping taking up

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such a huge portion of the property, I

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would have to vertically stack

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everything and put the parking

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underneath and sort of overdevelop the

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property. And if I do that, it doesn't

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pencil. It really doesn't. it it might

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be something that we might consider, but

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honestly it'd be a passion project at

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this point to try to get the type of

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business which we're currently trying

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for a restaurant. U and then the third

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thing would be to just kind of leave it

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as it is underutilized. I don't know if

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you know the property that that we have,

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but it's it's not the prettiest property

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in town. So, I'm hoping to uh to make it

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a little bit nicer. It's just to the

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right of a design gallery. Um,

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you know, I understand that that the

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town has goals and priorities and I'm

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really hoping that uh you guys believe

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as I do that I'm working within those

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constraints. So, I'm taking the general

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plan very seriously. I put some very

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specific language in there from the

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general plan that I think is very

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applicable and uh I hope you guys too do

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too. Now one more thing I want to

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mention is also is in the staff summary

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it seems very locked in you know

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recommend approval or not you have a

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little bit more latitude than that and

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for instance uh you know our property

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that we have appears to be just over a

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quarter acre. So even if this gets

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approved we're not going to be able to

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take advantage of the 40% tile. We would

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be in that 50 percentile. We are

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literally just a hair over. In fact, we

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were reassessed as far as size this

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year. It was.24 acres until this year it

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magically became. 26 acres. And so I

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would ask you if you are agreeable to

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this idea and you are looking to

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recommend approval to consider a 5%

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administrative tolerance at the

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thresholds. Uh it's not something that I

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put in the official application. It's

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something that would definitely affect

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us personally because our our property

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is so close to that. Uh but you do have

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that latitude and if you like something

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about the the um the application but you

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want to change a little bit recommend

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something a little bit different you

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have that latitude to do that as well.

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So in the staff summary it comes off

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like you know very much yes or no but

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you have you you have those ideas you

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know if you have some other ideas you

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know you can share those with me and uh

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certainly you can move in any direction

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you want. So um that's about it. Uh you

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know on properties this small

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uh that 5% uh tolerance would be talking

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about a few hundred square feet

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difference and it would make all the

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difference for our property as far as to

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be able to develop. So

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that's about all I got. So I don't if

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you have any questions or whatever. So

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>> actually I have a question for staff. I

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didn't quite speak.

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>> Yeah. No. So at this time we can ask

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questions of the staff or the applicant.

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>> Um and and it actually goes to something

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you said I thought about. So based upon

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what what was said here, are we able to

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recommend minor changes? So we could

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approve, assuming say we approved or

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recommended approval, could we also as

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conditions of that approval recommend

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changes to the town council? Would that

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be the way to do that?

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>> Yes, I think um some some minor tweaks

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or some minor um qualifiers or

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conditions would be would be appropriate

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um if you felt it was necessary.

274
00:11:47,839 --> 00:11:50,160
I think um I think you made a a very

275
00:11:50,160 --> 00:11:52,240
good explanation. I've read the original

276
00:11:52,240 --> 00:11:55,200
and and what you handed out here. Um it

277
00:11:55,200 --> 00:11:57,760
really matches many of the things I

278
00:11:57,760 --> 00:12:00,399
imagined you would you would want to u

279
00:12:00,399 --> 00:12:05,120
to make as comments and and input. So I

280
00:12:05,120 --> 00:12:06,800
don't have any specific.

281
00:12:06,800 --> 00:12:09,440
>> It's very thorough.

282
00:12:09,440 --> 00:12:11,680
Um it gave a lot of information to

283
00:12:11,680 --> 00:12:14,000
consider.

284
00:12:14,000 --> 00:12:15,760
So, I feel like you did a really good

285
00:12:15,760 --> 00:12:17,920
job providing with us with all of that.

286
00:12:17,920 --> 00:12:21,509
So, thank you.

287
00:12:21,519 --> 00:12:23,680
» Think of anything. I'm I'm here.

288
00:12:23,680 --> 00:12:25,519
>> Okay. Are there any other questions from

289
00:12:25,519 --> 00:12:27,680
the planning commission for the staff or

290
00:12:27,680 --> 00:12:31,590
the applicants?

291
00:12:31,600 --> 00:12:35,040
Are there any questions from the public

292
00:12:35,040 --> 00:12:40,629
for the staff or the applicants?

293
00:12:40,639 --> 00:12:42,639
Okay. Okay. Can we get a motion to open

294
00:12:42,639 --> 00:12:44,000
public hearing?

295
00:12:44,000 --> 00:12:45,760
>> Make a motion to open public hearing.

296
00:12:45,760 --> 00:12:46,639
>> Second.

297
00:12:46,639 --> 00:12:49,200
>> Motion by Terry, second by Paul. All in

298
00:12:49,200 --> 00:12:49,839
favor?

299
00:12:49,839 --> 00:12:50,639
>> Terry I.

300
00:12:50,639 --> 00:12:51,839
>> Jennifer I.

301
00:12:51,839 --> 00:12:52,720
>> All I.

302
00:12:52,720 --> 00:12:54,880
>> Motion passes.

303
00:12:54,880 --> 00:12:57,040
We're going to move into the public

304
00:12:57,040 --> 00:12:59,040
comment period.

305
00:12:59,040 --> 00:13:01,360
Again acknowledging the letters of

306
00:13:01,360 --> 00:13:05,440
comment that we got from a number of

307
00:13:05,440 --> 00:13:07,519
residents. And thank you for that. it

308
00:13:07,519 --> 00:13:10,000
helps gives give us more perspective to

309
00:13:10,000 --> 00:13:13,120
consider and research as we're going

310
00:13:13,120 --> 00:13:15,200
through all of the the various issues

311
00:13:15,200 --> 00:13:17,600
we're discussing tonight. So, we did

312
00:13:17,600 --> 00:13:20,560
consider those public comment letters on

313
00:13:20,560 --> 00:13:24,069
this topic.

314
00:13:24,079 --> 00:13:26,639
And are there any other public comments

315
00:13:26,639 --> 00:13:28,639
at this time besides the letters we

316
00:13:28,639 --> 00:13:32,150
received?

317
00:13:32,160 --> 00:13:35,120
Okay, we will move to close public

318
00:13:35,120 --> 00:13:35,279
hearing.

319
00:13:35,279 --> 00:13:37,600
>> I move that we close public hearing.

320
00:13:37,600 --> 00:13:38,320
>> Second.

321
00:13:38,320 --> 00:13:40,880
>> Motion from Paul, second from Terry. All

322
00:13:40,880 --> 00:13:41,920
in favor?

323
00:13:41,920 --> 00:13:42,959
>> Terry I.

324
00:13:42,959 --> 00:13:45,120
>> Jennifer I.

325
00:13:45,120 --> 00:13:46,399
>> Paul I.

326
00:13:46,399 --> 00:13:49,680
>> Motion passes

327
00:13:49,680 --> 00:13:51,839
at this time. Is there a response from

328
00:13:51,839 --> 00:13:56,389
the applicant?

329
00:13:56,399 --> 00:13:58,000
» If there were comments, you could

330
00:13:58,000 --> 00:13:59,760
>> Yeah, you could respond. You could have

331
00:13:59,760 --> 00:14:01,279
replied to the comments that didn't

332
00:14:01,279 --> 00:14:01,920
happen.

333
00:14:01,920 --> 00:14:02,320
>> Yeah,

334
00:14:02,320 --> 00:14:04,000
>> I think you did a fabulous job.

335
00:14:04,000 --> 00:14:07,189
>> Thank you. Okay. [laughter]

336
00:14:07,199 --> 00:14:09,360
Um, now we will move into public

337
00:14:09,360 --> 00:14:13,590
commission deliberation.

338
00:14:13,600 --> 00:14:17,600
» Um, I would say off hand I I think I I

339
00:14:17,600 --> 00:14:19,839
understand the purpose and the idea and

340
00:14:19,839 --> 00:14:21,600
I think actually it does make some

341
00:14:21,600 --> 00:14:25,040
sense. Um, so generally I'm I'm for

342
00:14:25,040 --> 00:14:27,279
approval. I do have some thoughts and

343
00:14:27,279 --> 00:14:30,399
comments. Um,

344
00:14:30,399 --> 00:14:33,600
so I did some calculations. Um, being

345
00:14:33,600 --> 00:14:35,120
me, you know, that's kind of the way I

346
00:14:35,120 --> 00:14:38,240
do things. Um, so I I I I thought about

347
00:14:38,240 --> 00:14:41,199
a I took a quarter acre lot. Um, which

348
00:14:41,199 --> 00:14:44,720
is, let me pull this up here. Quarter

349
00:14:44,720 --> 00:14:49,199
acre lot is um 10,000

350
00:14:49,199 --> 00:14:51,920
plus square feet. 10,780

351
00:14:51,920 --> 00:14:53,360
square feet, I think, is what a quarter

352
00:14:53,360 --> 00:14:58,399
acre lot is. So, I took 60% and 40% and

353
00:14:58,399 --> 00:15:01,519
did some did some math on that. Um, and

354
00:15:01,519 --> 00:15:04,800
so it if you only have 40% left over,

355
00:15:04,800 --> 00:15:09,279
you end up with 50 4356 square feet, you

356
00:15:09,279 --> 00:15:11,279
know, whereas if you had 60% left over

357
00:15:11,279 --> 00:15:12,720
for the building, you could end up with

358
00:15:12,720 --> 00:15:15,680
6,534 square feet. So, significant

359
00:15:15,680 --> 00:15:18,320
difference. But then I thought about

360
00:15:18,320 --> 00:15:20,000
parking requirements and our present

361
00:15:20,000 --> 00:15:21,839
parking requirements and I realize we're

362
00:15:21,839 --> 00:15:23,760
talking about potentially changing them,

363
00:15:23,760 --> 00:15:26,480
but the present parking requirements um

364
00:15:26,480 --> 00:15:29,120
for and I chose a restaurant just out of

365
00:15:29,120 --> 00:15:31,519
happen stance. I chose a restaurant um

366
00:15:31,519 --> 00:15:34,560
requirements um because it requires one

367
00:15:34,560 --> 00:15:36,800
parking space per 200 square feet. So

368
00:15:36,800 --> 00:15:39,120
that's one of the more um parking

369
00:15:39,120 --> 00:15:41,600
intensive requirements

370
00:15:41,600 --> 00:15:43,680
and did some back calculations and came

371
00:15:43,680 --> 00:15:46,560
up with under the present ordinance of

372
00:15:46,560 --> 00:15:50,240
60% you could build a 1700 square foot

373
00:15:50,240 --> 00:15:53,199
restaurant with a,275 square foot dining

374
00:15:53,199 --> 00:15:56,880
area 75% I just picked that off which

375
00:15:56,880 --> 00:15:59,440
requires six bases base spaces plus two

376
00:15:59,440 --> 00:16:02,720
more in employee spaces which based on

377
00:16:02,720 --> 00:16:05,279
documents we've read from other issues

378
00:16:05,279 --> 00:16:09,120
is about 330 square ft per um per

379
00:16:09,120 --> 00:16:10,959
parking space based upon documents we've

380
00:16:10,959 --> 00:16:12,399
read when we looked at the parking space

381
00:16:12,399 --> 00:16:17,600
issue. Um so all of that adds up to um

382
00:16:17,600 --> 00:16:21,040
2640 ft of parking space for your 1700

383
00:16:21,040 --> 00:16:24,639
foot restaurant total of 4340. So that's

384
00:16:24,639 --> 00:16:28,160
about as big as you can build with 60%.

385
00:16:28,160 --> 00:16:30,959
If you go to 40% the building size could

386
00:16:30,959 --> 00:16:32,800
go to 2400

387
00:16:32,800 --> 00:16:34,560
and then the parking spaces would

388
00:16:34,560 --> 00:16:38,079
increase. And so I ended up about a 700

389
00:16:38,079 --> 00:16:41,519
square foot increase between

390
00:16:41,519 --> 00:16:44,959
60% of landscape requirement and 40%

391
00:16:44,959 --> 00:16:47,680
landscape requirement. Um but I thought

392
00:16:47,680 --> 00:16:51,199
a little more about this and and um I

393
00:16:51,199 --> 00:16:53,360
thought about we do also have setback

394
00:16:53,360 --> 00:16:55,120
requirements

395
00:16:55,120 --> 00:16:57,680
and in village commercial it's 30 feet

396
00:16:57,680 --> 00:16:59,600
in the front, 10 feet on each side and

397
00:16:59,600 --> 00:17:01,519
20 feet in the back. So, I took an

398
00:17:01,519 --> 00:17:05,039
imaginary square quarter acre lot and

399
00:17:05,039 --> 00:17:08,319
subtracted out all the setbacks and you

400
00:17:08,319 --> 00:17:11,600
end up with um 4399

401
00:17:11,600 --> 00:17:15,039
square ft of buildable space inside the

402
00:17:15,039 --> 00:17:18,240
setbacks. So, on a quarter acre lot, if

403
00:17:18,240 --> 00:17:21,839
we increase or decrease the required um

404
00:17:21,839 --> 00:17:24,959
landscaping and open space, you're still

405
00:17:24,959 --> 00:17:29,280
going to run into the setbacks. Um, of

406
00:17:29,280 --> 00:17:31,679
course, parking can impose on the

407
00:17:31,679 --> 00:17:33,440
setbacks to some extent,

408
00:17:33,440 --> 00:17:35,039
>> right? So, there is a there is an

409
00:17:35,039 --> 00:17:36,559
ordinance that allows the planning

410
00:17:36,559 --> 00:17:40,080
commission to authorize up to 50%

411
00:17:40,080 --> 00:17:42,720
encroachment into the side and rear set

412
00:17:42,720 --> 00:17:44,640
back setbacks.

413
00:17:44,640 --> 00:17:47,600
And so if you if if we were to in a

414
00:17:47,600 --> 00:17:50,400
particular in this particular example of

415
00:17:50,400 --> 00:17:51,840
a square lot and everything, if we were

416
00:17:51,840 --> 00:17:55,600
to um allow the 50% in all three, the

417
00:17:55,600 --> 00:17:58,559
two sides and the rear, then you end up

418
00:17:58,559 --> 00:18:03,440
with um about what did I call with 5859

419
00:18:03,440 --> 00:18:06,400
buildable square feet. um which is still

420
00:18:06,400 --> 00:18:08,720
less than the 6,534

421
00:18:08,720 --> 00:18:10,880
buildable square feet that you would get

422
00:18:10,880 --> 00:18:13,280
just based upon go dropping the

423
00:18:13,280 --> 00:18:17,440
landscaping to 40 40%.

424
00:18:17,440 --> 00:18:21,840
Long story. I think potentially it

425
00:18:21,840 --> 00:18:25,280
doesn't make sense to have the 40%

426
00:18:25,280 --> 00:18:28,080
landscaping at the quarter acre tier

427
00:18:28,080 --> 00:18:30,000
because it doesn't gain you anything if

428
00:18:30,000 --> 00:18:32,240
you have to fit inside the set tops or

429
00:18:32,240 --> 00:18:36,640
setbacks, sorry. Um, and maybe that if

430
00:18:36,640 --> 00:18:40,240
it's just 60% above a half an acre and

431
00:18:40,240 --> 00:18:42,880
50% below half an acre, that's going to

432
00:18:42,880 --> 00:18:45,200
work just about as well given that the

433
00:18:45,200 --> 00:18:47,360
set tops the setbacks already restrict

434
00:18:47,360 --> 00:18:51,919
the building area. Um, so I open that up

435
00:18:51,919 --> 00:18:54,880
as a potential consideration

436
00:18:54,880 --> 00:18:57,840
um to more in line with the way the

437
00:18:57,840 --> 00:18:59,679
setbacks work and the amount of space

438
00:18:59,679 --> 00:19:00,960
you're going to end up being able to

439
00:19:00,960 --> 00:19:04,559
build. Um, in a sense I could go either

440
00:19:04,559 --> 00:19:06,080
way because the setbacks are the

441
00:19:06,080 --> 00:19:10,160
setbacks and if if the the only problem

442
00:19:10,160 --> 00:19:11,840
is that you could end up with

443
00:19:11,840 --> 00:19:15,600
unlandscaped, unopen space area in the

444
00:19:15,600 --> 00:19:19,200
setbacks that theoretically can't have

445
00:19:19,200 --> 00:19:23,039
other things in them. Um, so I make that

446
00:19:23,039 --> 00:19:26,000
as a suggestion, something to consider.

447
00:19:26,000 --> 00:19:27,760
Um

448
00:19:27,760 --> 00:19:30,160
and then the other thing that I came up

449
00:19:30,160 --> 00:19:33,760
with um

450
00:19:33,760 --> 00:19:36,400
is that if you look at the valley

451
00:19:36,400 --> 00:19:38,080
residential

452
00:19:38,080 --> 00:19:40,960
VR is a quarter acre minimum and it has

453
00:19:40,960 --> 00:19:42,960
a 60%

454
00:19:42,960 --> 00:19:45,760
um is quarter acre minimum. Yeah. So has

455
00:19:45,760 --> 00:19:49,919
a and it has a 60% um requirement for so

456
00:19:49,919 --> 00:19:52,320
for um landscaping and [clears throat]

457
00:19:52,320 --> 00:19:54,799
the whole idea of village commercial is

458
00:19:54,799 --> 00:19:56,720
that it's a transition between

459
00:19:56,720 --> 00:19:59,600
residential such as valley residential

460
00:19:59,600 --> 00:20:03,440
and central commercial. Um and so going

461
00:20:03,440 --> 00:20:04,960
from

462
00:20:04,960 --> 00:20:06,480
VR

463
00:20:06,480 --> 00:20:10,320
at 60% to village commercial quarter

464
00:20:10,320 --> 00:20:13,200
acre at 40% is a pretty big jump. So

465
00:20:13,200 --> 00:20:14,799
again to me that implies that the

466
00:20:14,799 --> 00:20:18,720
quarter acre going to 50% is a smaller

467
00:20:18,720 --> 00:20:23,280
jump on the way towards even more dense

468
00:20:23,280 --> 00:20:25,840
uh central commercial. So I sort of came

469
00:20:25,840 --> 00:20:27,440
away with the idea that we might

470
00:20:27,440 --> 00:20:30,320
recommend to the town council that they

471
00:20:30,320 --> 00:20:37,750
don't go all the way down to 40%.

472
00:20:37,760 --> 00:20:39,274
» That was impressive. Thank you.

473
00:20:39,274 --> 00:20:42,310
[laughter]

474
00:20:42,320 --> 00:20:44,320
Uh, I'm willing to have him comment on

475
00:20:44,320 --> 00:20:45,200
that.

476
00:20:45,200 --> 00:20:47,120
>> Yes.

477
00:20:47,120 --> 00:20:49,520
>> Just a few things on that. One, I think

478
00:20:49,520 --> 00:20:50,880
his considerations are only talking

479
00:20:50,880 --> 00:20:52,480
about a one-story structure, which I'm

480
00:20:52,480 --> 00:20:54,480
really trying hard to do. And second,

481
00:20:54,480 --> 00:20:56,400
it's far beyond parking. You have drive

482
00:20:56,400 --> 00:20:57,919
aisles, driveways, turn, you know,

483
00:20:57,919 --> 00:21:00,240
circulation of the property. And yes, I

484
00:21:00,240 --> 00:21:01,919
probably will have to ask you guys for

485
00:21:01,919 --> 00:21:04,000
that extra halfway into the setbacks

486
00:21:04,000 --> 00:21:06,559
because we are so tight. But uh there is

487
00:21:06,559 --> 00:21:09,600
a lot more latitude with with the

488
00:21:09,600 --> 00:21:11,440
reduced you know uh landscaping

489
00:21:11,440 --> 00:21:14,000
requirements far beyond what you were

490
00:21:14,000 --> 00:21:15,760
outlining there because you you know two

491
00:21:15,760 --> 00:21:18,559
stories and all that and stacked and all

492
00:21:18,559 --> 00:21:21,200
those things can dramatically change the

493
00:21:21,200 --> 00:21:24,080
quality and the size of the structure if

494
00:21:24,080 --> 00:21:26,880
I had more latitude for instance if it

495
00:21:26,880 --> 00:21:28,480
was even you know le if it was down to

496
00:21:28,480 --> 00:21:32,240
the 40% I know I could keep it at one story for instance so that would be

497
00:21:32,240 --> 00:21:36,799
I think a big win for everybody. So

498
00:21:36,799 --> 00:21:38,960
>> I guess I I'll ask a question on that.

499
00:21:38,960 --> 00:21:42,480
So if the setbacks restrict you to a

500
00:21:42,480 --> 00:21:47,120
square footage that is smaller than the

501
00:21:47,120 --> 00:21:50,640
40% restricts you you're you're either

502
00:21:50,640 --> 00:21:52,000
going to have to go twotory or not. I

503
00:21:52,000 --> 00:21:53,440
don't really understand why

504
00:21:53,440 --> 00:21:55,520
>> I can go twotory. I could can lever over

505
00:21:55,520 --> 00:21:57,679
parking. I I do have a there is other

506
00:21:57,679 --> 00:21:59,919
options besides the outline of that.

507
00:21:59,919 --> 00:22:02,799
>> Right. But but taking those options um

508
00:22:02,799 --> 00:22:04,960
these setbacks would drive you into

509
00:22:04,960 --> 00:22:07,280
taking those options rather than the

510
00:22:07,280 --> 00:22:09,840
landscaping because the landscaping at

511
00:22:09,840 --> 00:22:12,799
40% would leave you far more square

512
00:22:12,799 --> 00:22:14,720
footage than the setbacks would leave

513
00:22:14,720 --> 00:22:15,200
you.

514
00:22:15,200 --> 00:22:17,280
>> Yeah. I mean, look, I'm trying to work

515
00:22:17,280 --> 00:22:19,840
within what what we want as a town. You

516
00:22:19,840 --> 00:22:21,440
know, I'm not trying to ask for for

517
00:22:21,440 --> 00:22:24,559
setbacks to be reduced or anything. Uh

518
00:22:24,559 --> 00:22:26,159
this, you know, I've talked with my

519
00:22:26,159 --> 00:22:29,120
architects and draftsmen. This is if

520
00:22:29,120 --> 00:22:30,559
this gets approved, this is going to

521
00:22:30,559 --> 00:22:35,120
make a huge difference for us. So, it's a little more complicated than

522
00:22:35,120 --> 00:22:36,000
we're what we're talking about.

523
00:22:36,000 --> 00:22:38,480
>> If you know at this time, uh, what kind

524
00:22:38,480 --> 00:22:41,280
of buildable square footage do you think

525
00:22:41,280 --> 00:22:43,039
would give you the ability to do what

526
00:22:43,039 --> 00:22:44,240
you need to do?

527
00:22:44,240 --> 00:22:46,559
>> Well, right now, under the current

528
00:22:46,559 --> 00:22:47,760
constraints, we're looking at about a

529
00:22:47,760 --> 00:22:51,039
900 foot building with about five spots.

530
00:22:51,039 --> 00:22:54,559
And we don't have any

531
00:22:54,559 --> 00:22:56,880
public transportation in the evenings.

532
00:22:56,880 --> 00:22:58,480
When the when the shuttles stop, they

533
00:22:58,480 --> 00:23:01,440
stop. And

534
00:23:01,440 --> 00:23:04,960
you I think it's a wonderful goal uh to

535
00:23:04,960 --> 00:23:08,159
get to be a very walkable town.

536
00:23:08,159 --> 00:23:10,559
I I fully support all of that. I I think

537
00:23:10,559 --> 00:23:13,760
the businesses should decide what

538
00:23:13,760 --> 00:23:15,760
parking they need to have a successful

539
00:23:15,760 --> 00:23:17,360
business. It seems weird to me that the

540
00:23:17,360 --> 00:23:19,600
town would tell a business how much

541
00:23:19,600 --> 00:23:21,840
parking they need, but at the end of the

542
00:23:21,840 --> 00:23:24,320
day, I you know, if people are going to

543
00:23:24,320 --> 00:23:26,559
come to my business, they many times are

544
00:23:26,559 --> 00:23:29,840
going to need a place to park. So, I I I

545
00:23:29,840 --> 00:23:31,360
can't forgo the parking at this point

546
00:23:31,360 --> 00:23:32,799
there. The culture isn't there in the

547
00:23:32,799 --> 00:23:34,400
town yet. So, yeah.

548
00:23:34,400 --> 00:23:37,600
>> Yeah. I I wasn't expecting to forego the

549
00:23:37,600 --> 00:23:41,039
parking. Um Okay.

550
00:23:41,039 --> 00:23:43,200
>> And that was really good perspective,

551
00:23:43,200 --> 00:23:46,320
Terry. I just go back to though

552
00:23:46,320 --> 00:23:48,640
I mean, given property size, it just

553
00:23:48,640 --> 00:23:52,080
seems to make sense to tar

554
00:23:52,080 --> 00:23:54,400
to tier it in that way.

555
00:23:54,400 --> 00:23:56,720
>> Yeah. I I'm not saying we shouldn't we

556
00:23:56,720 --> 00:23:58,000
shouldn't I'm not saying we should not

557
00:23:58,000 --> 00:23:58,720
tear it at all.

558
00:23:58,720 --> 00:24:00,640
>> You're just saying it makes it that very

559
00:24:00,640 --> 00:24:04,000
bottom tier, that quarter acre tier um

560
00:24:04,000 --> 00:24:06,256
at 40%.

561
00:24:06,256 --> 00:24:06,320
[clears throat]

562
00:24:06,320 --> 00:24:07,840
>> Means that you're going to run into the

563
00:24:07,840 --> 00:24:08,640
setbacks.

564
00:24:08,640 --> 00:24:09,360
>> Yeah.

565
00:24:09,360 --> 00:24:12,320
>> Well, before you run into the uh

566
00:24:12,320 --> 00:24:14,960
landscaping requirement.

567
00:24:14,960 --> 00:24:18,320
Can I offer just a just a point on that?

568
00:24:18,320 --> 00:24:21,279
Um, so within the setbacks, there are

569
00:24:21,279 --> 00:24:23,200
some things that can go other than

570
00:24:23,200 --> 00:24:26,320
landscaping such as, you know, patios,

571
00:24:26,320 --> 00:24:28,640
driveways, courtyards, and those things.

572
00:24:28,640 --> 00:24:33,919
So that that setback area

573
00:24:33,919 --> 00:24:36,080
doesn't necessarily have to be 100%

574
00:24:36,080 --> 00:24:39,440
landscaping if if that makes sense. So

575
00:24:39,440 --> 00:24:42,400
some of that area may be may be usable

576
00:24:42,400 --> 00:24:45,039
for other things in landscaping if that

577
00:24:45,039 --> 00:24:46,080
just helps.

578
00:24:46,080 --> 00:24:48,880
>> Um

579
00:24:48,880 --> 00:24:50,960
yeah and and the definition of landscape

580
00:24:50,960 --> 00:24:53,760
includes some things like pools and

581
00:24:53,760 --> 00:24:57,279
patios under certain conditions. Um so

582
00:24:57,279 --> 00:24:59,039
it gets a little complicated in terms of

583
00:24:59,039 --> 00:25:03,897
what constitutes landscaping. Um,

584
00:25:03,897 --> 00:25:05,039
[snorts]

585
00:25:05,039 --> 00:25:08,720
like I said, I I think leaving it at 40%

586
00:25:08,720 --> 00:25:10,720
doesn't change the whole setback issue.

587
00:25:10,720 --> 00:25:15,200
So, in the end, it's not going to give

588
00:25:15,200 --> 00:25:18,480
more space than the setbacks allow. Um,

589
00:25:18,480 --> 00:25:20,000
it might just lead to some

590
00:25:20,000 --> 00:25:22,640
misunderstanding about what you can

591
00:25:22,640 --> 00:25:25,520
build or what. That's more my concern

592
00:25:25,520 --> 00:25:27,840
than anything. So what you would suggest

593
00:25:27,840 --> 00:25:31,039
then is less than a half an acre at

594
00:25:31,039 --> 00:25:32,480
>> 50%

595
00:25:32,480 --> 00:25:34,400
>> right and just you know sort of remove

596
00:25:34,400 --> 00:25:38,159
the the third um the third one the

597
00:25:38,159 --> 00:25:40,880
lowest one and say it's 50% and that's

598
00:25:40,880 --> 00:25:42,159
going to give you something very similar

599
00:25:42,159 --> 00:25:45,120
to what the setbacks allow

600
00:25:45,120 --> 00:25:49,279
um and it's also a transition from

601
00:25:49,279 --> 00:25:52,720
valley residential where a VR at a

602
00:25:52,720 --> 00:25:56,480
quarter acre is 60% then VC C at a

603
00:25:56,480 --> 00:26:00,480
quarter acre would be 50%. And

604
00:26:00,480 --> 00:26:03,120
central commercial at a quarter or you

605
00:26:03,120 --> 00:26:04,400
know at a quarter acre is going to be

606
00:26:04,400 --> 00:26:10,080
30%. So it gives it's it's less of a dramatic

607
00:26:10,080 --> 00:26:13,039
transition between the residential and

608
00:26:13,039 --> 00:26:14,720
the valley commercial, which is part of

609
00:26:14,720 --> 00:26:16,640
the purpose of valley commercial is to

610
00:26:16,640 --> 00:26:19,840
create that transition

611
00:26:19,840 --> 00:26:23,520
um where um where the commercial

612
00:26:23,520 --> 00:26:26,159
businesses are are less dense than they

613
00:26:26,159 --> 00:26:32,070
are in the central commercial area.

614
00:26:32,080 --> 00:26:34,559
» Ask a question.

615
00:26:34,559 --> 00:26:37,360
Yeah. Can you come up?

616
00:26:37,360 --> 00:26:38,640
>> I'm just curious, when you did your

617
00:26:38,640 --> 00:26:40,559
calculations for your name.

618
00:26:40,559 --> 00:26:42,240
>> Oh, Greg Federman. Hi.

619
00:26:42,240 --> 00:26:44,159
>> Uh, when you did your calculations for

620
00:26:44,159 --> 00:26:47,919
the 40%, did you include what would

621
00:26:47,919 --> 00:26:50,080
happen if you took advantage of the

622
00:26:50,080 --> 00:26:52,880
setback leniency?

623
00:26:52,880 --> 00:26:54,640
>> Um, because I'm just thinking about what

624
00:26:54,640 --> 00:26:56,640
Nile said where if they utilize some of

625
00:26:56,640 --> 00:27:00,000
that open space for in a in a restaurant

626
00:27:00,000 --> 00:27:01,760
scenario, a patio, they get to actually

627
00:27:01,760 --> 00:27:03,279
utilize the space, right? So if you're

628
00:27:03,279 --> 00:27:05,200
able to adjust those setbacks on a case-

629
00:27:05,200 --> 00:27:08,240
by case basis, would that 40% then allow

630
00:27:08,240 --> 00:27:11,039
him to do what he needs to do

631
00:27:11,039 --> 00:27:14,480
>> if you so so in the in the way I did the

632
00:27:14,480 --> 00:27:17,039
calculations um I just took a quarter

633
00:27:17,039 --> 00:27:22,480
acres 10,780 ft multiply it by by 60%

634
00:27:22,480 --> 00:27:25,760
and that's if you had a 40% um

635
00:27:25,760 --> 00:27:28,880
requirement for uh landscaping and open

636
00:27:28,880 --> 00:27:31,120
space and you get 60%. That's how I came

637
00:27:31,120 --> 00:27:33,840
up with the number for that. And then I

638
00:27:33,840 --> 00:27:35,440
said, okay, on on a separate

639
00:27:35,440 --> 00:27:39,440
calculation, you calculate um

640
00:27:39,440 --> 00:27:41,679
given and I used a square just to make

641
00:27:41,679 --> 00:27:44,320
it simple, a square quarter acre lot and

642
00:27:44,320 --> 00:27:47,200
subtracted out all of the um all of the

643
00:27:47,200 --> 00:27:48,320
setbacks,

644
00:27:48,320 --> 00:27:48,799
>> right?

645
00:27:48,799 --> 00:27:50,960
>> That's where I end up at 43.99. And then

646
00:27:50,960 --> 00:27:54,399
if we turned around and approved 50%

647
00:27:54,399 --> 00:27:58,000
encroachment into the two sides and rear

648
00:27:58,000 --> 00:28:01,600
setback, that's where I ended up at um

649
00:28:01,600 --> 00:28:06,320
what was it? 5800 I think it was 5859.

650
00:28:06,320 --> 00:28:07,919
>> Okay. So you did the calculations with

651
00:28:07,919 --> 00:28:10,080
the reduced setback requirements. That

652
00:28:10,080 --> 00:28:10,720
was my question.

653
00:28:10,720 --> 00:28:12,480
>> Right. Right. Yeah. So so I calculated

654
00:28:12,480 --> 00:28:15,039
if we gave the maximum setback

655
00:28:15,039 --> 00:28:16,480
encroachment that we c that we're

656
00:28:16,480 --> 00:28:17,120
allowed to give.

657
00:28:17,120 --> 00:28:18,880
>> Got it. Okay. And that ends up at the

658
00:28:18,880 --> 00:28:20,480
5859,

659
00:28:20,480 --> 00:28:24,240
which is still less than the 60

660
00:28:24,240 --> 00:28:26,640
a fixed 6534

661
00:28:26,640 --> 00:28:28,640
that a

662
00:28:28,640 --> 00:28:31,760
40% landscaping would leave available.

663
00:28:31,760 --> 00:28:33,520
>> So you should change it to 30% then.

664
00:28:33,520 --> 00:28:34,559
Right.

665
00:28:34,559 --> 00:28:36,000
>> No, then that would leave even more

666
00:28:36,000 --> 00:28:37,360
square foot, you know. [laughter]

667
00:28:37,360 --> 00:28:38,720
Yeah. Get

668
00:28:38,720 --> 00:28:39,440
>> I just was seeing

669
00:28:39,440 --> 00:28:41,600
>> just Yeah. Yeah.

670
00:28:41,600 --> 00:28:42,960
>> Doesn't mean I need to use all of it

671
00:28:42,960 --> 00:28:44,320
either.

672
00:28:44,320 --> 00:28:50,630
48%

673
00:28:50,640 --> 00:28:53,440
might be a huge

674
00:28:53,440 --> 00:28:57,269
max.

675
00:28:57,279 --> 00:29:00,960
» So in that scenario,

676
00:29:00,960 --> 00:29:05,360
I I understand what you're saying. Um,

677
00:29:05,360 --> 00:29:09,039
so if if it was just the two tiers, then

678
00:29:09,039 --> 00:29:11,840
possibly adding in the whatever

679
00:29:11,840 --> 00:29:14,000
percentage 5% if that's what makes

680
00:29:14,000 --> 00:29:19,590
sense, administrative tolerance.

681
00:29:19,600 --> 00:29:20,159
» You

682
00:29:20,159 --> 00:29:24,399
>> So then technically you could go 45,

683
00:29:24,399 --> 00:29:27,039
but it's not in the tiered. It would be

684
00:29:27,039 --> 00:29:30,000
discretion how you apply that be.

685
00:29:30,000 --> 00:29:34,080
>> That's not okay. Um I I was asking that

686
00:29:34,080 --> 00:29:36,240
if there was a property that the size

687
00:29:36,240 --> 00:29:38,799
was within 5% of the threshold.

688
00:29:38,799 --> 00:29:39,520
>> I see what you're saying.

689
00:29:39,520 --> 00:29:41,360
>> Yeah. So I'm not giving another 5%

690
00:29:41,360 --> 00:29:44,799
landscape but like in my case I'm at 26.

691
00:29:44,799 --> 00:29:45,279
>> Okay.

692
00:29:45,279 --> 00:29:48,080
>> I'm like point you know 1% over the

693
00:29:48,080 --> 00:29:50,000
threshold if there was that tolerance

694
00:29:50,000 --> 00:29:53,520
that I could then uh realize that 40% as

695
00:29:53,520 --> 00:29:56,000
opposed to staying in the 50%.

696
00:29:56,000 --> 00:29:56,880
>> Gotcha.

697
00:29:56,880 --> 00:29:58,480
>> And I'm not necessarily going to use all

698
00:29:58,480 --> 00:30:01,200
of it. If I was to granted that 40%, I

699
00:30:01,200 --> 00:30:03,679
would still maybe only use, you know, 45

700
00:30:03,679 --> 00:30:09,110
or something. So, yeah.

701
00:30:09,120 --> 00:30:11,440
Well, another approach, I mean, we could

702
00:30:11,440 --> 00:30:13,200
leave the numbers the same if we felt we

703
00:30:13,200 --> 00:30:15,440
want to do that and just add a statement

704
00:30:15,440 --> 00:30:20,640
that um that these don't override the

705
00:30:20,640 --> 00:30:23,520
setback requirements so that people will

706
00:30:23,520 --> 00:30:25,600
realize that whatever number they get

707
00:30:25,600 --> 00:30:29,520
out of this calculation doesn't um mean

708
00:30:29,520 --> 00:30:33,520
that you can use more of the setback.

709
00:30:33,520 --> 00:30:35,919
>> I mean, I don't think based on what null

710
00:30:35,919 --> 00:30:37,600
is saying the size of his property is. I

711
00:30:37,600 --> 00:30:39,840
mean, the bottom line is no longer

712
00:30:39,840 --> 00:30:41,120
applicable to your property because

713
00:30:41,120 --> 00:30:42,799
you're over a quarter of an acre right

714
00:30:42,799 --> 00:30:44,559
now, right?

715
00:30:44,559 --> 00:30:48,159
>> Well, there's no 5% tolerance threshold.

716
00:30:48,159 --> 00:30:49,440
>> Yeah.

717
00:30:49,440 --> 00:30:51,600
>> Right.

718
00:30:51,600 --> 00:30:53,919
>> Because you

719
00:30:53,919 --> 00:30:55,919
>> Yeah. If there's no 5% tolerance at the

720
00:30:55,919 --> 00:30:57,679
threshold, it probably would be a moot

721
00:30:57,679 --> 00:30:59,840
point for me. But certainly uh if this

722
00:30:59,840 --> 00:31:01,919
does get all the way to approval, I

723
00:31:01,919 --> 00:31:03,760
might go ahead and pay for a new survey

724
00:31:03,760 --> 00:31:06,799
just to see because uh I was shocked

725
00:31:06,799 --> 00:31:08,240
when I pulled up public records a few

726
00:31:08,240 --> 00:31:09,600
months ago and saw that they had changed

727
00:31:09,600 --> 00:31:13,200
it from 0.24 to 26. I don't know why,

728
00:31:13,200 --> 00:31:15,520
maybe Tom or Nile knows, but uh they can

729
00:31:15,520 --> 00:31:17,279
do it with digital imaging. There's lots

730
00:31:17,279 --> 00:31:19,440
of stuff. But on this particular

731
00:31:19,440 --> 00:31:21,200
property, there was some eminent domain

732
00:31:21,200 --> 00:31:23,520
the town took uh some years back and

733
00:31:23,520 --> 00:31:24,960
there was an adjustment to the rear

734
00:31:24,960 --> 00:31:27,919
sight line. And so I have really no clue

735
00:31:27,919 --> 00:31:31,440
uh if the recalculation people, you

736
00:31:31,440 --> 00:31:32,960
know, uh what however they did that, if

737
00:31:32,960 --> 00:31:34,240
they took that into consideration or

738
00:31:34,240 --> 00:31:35,919
they knew that. So it's very possible

739
00:31:35,919 --> 00:31:39,200
that if there's no 5% tolerance and it

740
00:31:39,200 --> 00:31:40,960
does get approved, I'll probably go

741
00:31:40,960 --> 00:31:43,440
ahead and get a new a new survey to see,

742
00:31:43,440 --> 00:31:44,080
you know, if I

743
00:31:44,080 --> 00:31:45,600
>> if you actually are under 25.

744
00:31:45,600 --> 00:31:46,880
>> Yeah. Because if if you know,

745
00:31:46,880 --> 00:31:49,519
ironically, if I was at 0.24 24 and got

746
00:31:49,519 --> 00:31:52,559
the 40% as opposed to 50% there would be

747
00:31:52,559 --> 00:32:05,669
a net gain for us on that scenario. So

748
00:32:05,679 --> 00:32:09,279
» I like the consistency

749
00:32:09,279 --> 00:32:14,950
of the tears.

750
00:32:14,960 --> 00:32:17,919
» I think the tears um Yeah. I mean the

751
00:32:17,919 --> 00:32:20,080
consistency between the the three things

752
00:32:20,080 --> 00:32:22,960
makes sense but the I guess the

753
00:32:22,960 --> 00:32:25,039
in in in

754
00:32:25,039 --> 00:32:27,120
I don't know in small this small

755
00:32:27,120 --> 00:32:29,039
property where now it's commercial and a

756
00:32:29,039 --> 00:32:31,600
residential zone uh and it's you know

757
00:32:31,600 --> 00:32:33,039
the central commercial zone is not

758
00:32:33,039 --> 00:32:35,519
necessarily I'm not saying it isn't but

759
00:32:35,519 --> 00:32:37,760
it's not necessarily as adjacent to

760
00:32:37,760 --> 00:32:39,840
residential as the village commercial

761
00:32:39,840 --> 00:32:41,519
zone. One of the reasons village

762
00:32:41,519 --> 00:32:43,200
commercial is what it is is so that it

763
00:32:43,200 --> 00:32:44,640
provides sort of a buffer under there

764
00:32:44,640 --> 00:32:48,000
>> buffer a transition. Yeah. So, um, you

765
00:32:48,000 --> 00:32:52,000
know, to put a fully built out and fully

766
00:32:52,000 --> 00:32:54,559
utilized space without the landscaping

767
00:32:54,559 --> 00:32:56,399
on a very small property in a

768
00:32:56,399 --> 00:32:58,880
residential sort of environment seems to

769
00:32:58,880 --> 00:33:02,880
me, you know, I guess I like I like your

770
00:33:02,880 --> 00:33:05,120
proposal to say, okay, if it's half acre

771
00:33:05,120 --> 00:33:07,039
or less, we we keep it at two zones

772
00:33:07,039 --> 00:33:10,159
rather than three uh for for this

773
00:33:10,159 --> 00:33:12,000
purpose. That seems to make sense,

774
00:33:12,000 --> 00:33:14,640
especially with the numbers that you pointed out. It's not really

775
00:33:14,640 --> 00:33:16,559
going to make a material difference one

776
00:33:16,559 --> 00:33:25,669
way or the other.

777
00:33:25,679 --> 00:33:27,200
» Uh I I understand the math with the

778
00:33:27,200 --> 00:33:28,799
setbacks, but it absolutely would give

779
00:33:28,799 --> 00:33:30,399
us way more latitude if we had that

780
00:33:30,399 --> 00:33:35,440
extra that extra 10% for sure. And and you always have the setbacks. So you

781
00:33:35,440 --> 00:33:37,919
always have another another restrictive

782
00:33:37,919 --> 00:33:39,760
uh you know situation when you're going

783
00:33:39,760 --> 00:33:42,480
to design a property. And that's not

784
00:33:42,480 --> 00:33:44,640
going to change. So whether you put

785
00:33:44,640 --> 00:33:46,240
language in there, you know, reaffirming

786
00:33:46,240 --> 00:33:48,000
that or not, that's just another hurdle

787
00:33:48,000 --> 00:33:49,919
that you would have to have to deal with

788
00:33:49,919 --> 00:33:52,720
when you're developing a small property,

789
00:33:52,720 --> 00:33:55,039
but but not giving the opportunity and

790
00:33:55,039 --> 00:33:56,960
that flexibility, I think, would would

791
00:33:56,960 --> 00:33:58,480
be a big deal, at least for us, you

792
00:33:58,480 --> 00:34:00,480
know, the way we've done our our designs

793
00:34:00,480 --> 00:34:03,919
and calculations and things. So

794
00:34:03,919 --> 00:34:07,360
>> So you're saying that um 50% doesn't

795
00:34:07,360 --> 00:34:10,000
work for your designs you're considering

796
00:34:10,000 --> 00:34:12,879
where 40 something under 50% would work.

797
00:34:12,879 --> 00:34:13,919
I think,

798
00:34:13,919 --> 00:34:15,760
>> excuse me. Yeah, I applied for for a

799
00:34:15,760 --> 00:34:17,919
variance and I applied for uh to get

800
00:34:17,919 --> 00:34:20,399
that property down to 48% landscaping

801
00:34:20,399 --> 00:34:23,440
requirement because just that extra 2%

802
00:34:23,440 --> 00:34:25,119
was making a really big difference on

803
00:34:25,119 --> 00:34:26,960
our designs that we were we were drawing

804
00:34:26,960 --> 00:34:28,960
up. So having that little bit of

805
00:34:28,960 --> 00:34:30,800
latitude was a huge deal. And like Nile

806
00:34:30,800 --> 00:34:32,720
said, you can't put patios. You can even

807
00:34:32,720 --> 00:34:34,639
put dining in setbacks. I don't know if

808
00:34:34,639 --> 00:34:36,000
you've seen Cowboys and Angels where

809
00:34:36,000 --> 00:34:37,599
they got that whole thing in the front,

810
00:34:37,599 --> 00:34:39,440
you know, grass and lights and all that

811
00:34:39,440 --> 00:34:43,040
stuff. people hang out there and they got tables and chairs and things

812
00:34:43,040 --> 00:34:44,960
and there's a lot of that in town. And

813
00:34:44,960 --> 00:34:48,480
so, uh, trust me, that extra 10% would

814
00:34:48,480 --> 00:34:51,280
be very useful. Even an extra, in my

815
00:34:51,280 --> 00:34:53,280
case, 2% would be very, very useful to

816
00:34:53,280 --> 00:34:55,040
have because we're so tight. You know,

817
00:34:55,040 --> 00:34:56,720
we're talking about such small property

818
00:34:56,720 --> 00:35:15,349
here.

819
00:35:15,359 --> 00:35:17,280
There's a couple ways we go. We leave it

820
00:35:17,280 --> 00:35:20,320
as 40%. We could recommend

821
00:35:20,320 --> 00:35:24,480
two years. We could recommend 45%.

822
00:35:24,480 --> 00:35:27,119
Um

823
00:35:27,119 --> 00:35:29,920
or um

824
00:35:29,920 --> 00:35:33,040
we could

825
00:35:33,040 --> 00:35:35,680
um allow

826
00:35:35,680 --> 00:35:38,960
a ver you know a

827
00:35:38,960 --> 00:35:41,599
I don't know

828
00:35:41,599 --> 00:35:43,440
we give ourselves the ability to prove

829
00:35:43,440 --> 00:35:45,599
something less than 50% under given

830
00:35:45,599 --> 00:35:47,760
conditions but that would make it a

831
00:35:47,760 --> 00:35:48,960
somewhat more complicated

832
00:35:48,960 --> 00:35:51,119
>> Yeah.

833
00:35:51,119 --> 00:35:53,440
That's was my comment about the the

834
00:35:53,440 --> 00:35:55,920
tolerance when I didn't realize it was

835
00:35:55,920 --> 00:35:56,480
actually

836
00:35:56,480 --> 00:35:58,320
>> the tolerance was

837
00:35:58,320 --> 00:36:02,560
>> which I like that also I I think a 5%

838
00:36:02,560 --> 00:36:04,960
administrative tolerance

839
00:36:04,960 --> 00:36:06,240
>> here's here's some gohead

840
00:36:06,240 --> 00:36:10,240
>> for that portion but um

841
00:36:10,240 --> 00:36:12,560
and then the overriding setback part but

842
00:36:12,560 --> 00:36:14,560
>> I

843
00:36:14,560 --> 00:36:16,560
agree that a quarter acre is a very

844
00:36:16,560 --> 00:36:18,960
small piece of property for a business

845
00:36:18,960 --> 00:36:22,960
and I think the 40% is reasonable.

846
00:36:22,960 --> 00:36:26,400
How about here's another possibility

847
00:36:26,400 --> 00:36:29,280
and no can comment on if he likes is

848
00:36:29,280 --> 00:36:36,800
that um is that in the case where the

849
00:36:36,800 --> 00:36:40,960
um where the required open space and and

850
00:36:40,960 --> 00:36:42,640
landscaping

851
00:36:42,640 --> 00:36:46,560
um is less than the size of the the

852
00:36:46,560 --> 00:36:49,440
total of the setbacks

853
00:36:49,440 --> 00:36:54,480
that any of setback fact that's not um

854
00:36:54,480 --> 00:37:00,079
not built with something like a patio or other things has to be landscaped. In

855
00:37:00,079 --> 00:37:02,240
other words, the thing I'm concerned

856
00:37:02,240 --> 00:37:04,560
about is okay now now you've got parts

857
00:37:04,560 --> 00:37:08,079
of the property that don't have to be

858
00:37:08,079 --> 00:37:10,240
landscaped. They're outside of the this

859
00:37:10,240 --> 00:37:11,839
50% and other things.

860
00:37:11,839 --> 00:37:14,480
>> Yeah. um in an area where we really want

861
00:37:14,480 --> 00:37:17,839
to have that kind of buffer that the

862
00:37:17,839 --> 00:37:19,839
ordinances call for between commercial

863
00:37:19,839 --> 00:37:23,040
businesses and residential businesses.

864
00:37:23,040 --> 00:37:24,480
So, I'm wondering if maybe we have an

865
00:37:24,480 --> 00:37:29,200
idea. Okay, it can be 40%. Um but

866
00:37:29,200 --> 00:37:32,320
whatever is left over, if it's under

867
00:37:32,320 --> 00:37:35,599
50%, whatever's left over in in the um

868
00:37:35,599 --> 00:37:38,640
setbacks has to be landscaped

869
00:37:38,640 --> 00:37:41,440
up to potentially 50%.

870
00:37:41,440 --> 00:37:42,960
I don't know. That's kind of an odd

871
00:37:42,960 --> 00:37:43,200
word.

872
00:37:43,200 --> 00:37:46,800
>> Yeah, I know. I know what you're saying.

873
00:37:46,800 --> 00:37:49,440
>> Uh that doesn't really resonate with me.

874
00:37:49,440 --> 00:37:49,760
Yeah,

875
00:37:49,760 --> 00:37:51,566
>> it's too complicated. Forget it.

876
00:37:51,566 --> 00:37:52,240
[laughter]

877
00:37:52,240 --> 00:37:53,680
>> Our particular project, we're planning

878
00:37:53,680 --> 00:37:56,240
to raise the whole all the structures

879
00:37:56,240 --> 00:37:58,720
and to start fresh. So, from our

880
00:37:58,720 --> 00:37:59,920
standpoint, we're pretty much going to

881
00:37:59,920 --> 00:38:01,839
be 100% landscape. We're not going to

882
00:38:01,839 --> 00:38:03,520
have any open space because we're going

883
00:38:03,520 --> 00:38:05,520
to start from scratch. So, everything

884
00:38:05,520 --> 00:38:08,240
that we do is going to be landscaped.

885
00:38:08,240 --> 00:38:10,800
And if you wanted to

886
00:38:10,800 --> 00:38:13,599
uh you know take away the opportunity

887
00:38:13,599 --> 00:38:18,000
for open space that doesn't affect us. I mean that's that's totally up you know

888
00:38:18,000 --> 00:38:19,280
that doesn't affect our situation

889
00:38:19,280 --> 00:38:20,480
because we're going to be landscaping

890
00:38:20,480 --> 00:38:22,560
100% of whatever is required basically.

891
00:38:22,560 --> 00:38:25,920
So so if you there was less open space

892
00:38:25,920 --> 00:38:29,280
or more a higher percentage of that uh

893
00:38:29,280 --> 00:38:30,720
landscape needed to actually be

894
00:38:30,720 --> 00:38:32,560
landscape and not open space that

895
00:38:32,560 --> 00:38:47,109
wouldn't affect us. That would be fine.

896
00:38:47,119 --> 00:38:48,320
thing between the three of us. You want

897
00:38:48,320 --> 00:38:49,680
to leave it at 40%.

898
00:38:49,680 --> 00:38:52,480
>> I do.

899
00:38:52,480 --> 00:38:56,630
>> I can go either way.

900
00:38:56,640 --> 00:38:58,160
» Are you saying you want to leave three

901
00:38:58,160 --> 00:38:59,760
tiers and then leave?

902
00:38:59,760 --> 00:39:01,200
>> You leave the three tiers and we leave

903
00:39:01,200 --> 00:39:03,839
the bottom tier at 40%.

904
00:39:03,839 --> 00:39:06,320
then you run into this situation where

905
00:39:06,320 --> 00:39:10,400
the setbacks are more restrictive than

906
00:39:10,400 --> 00:39:11,920
the landscaping and open space

907
00:39:11,920 --> 00:39:15,839
requirements. Um but you still have a

908
00:39:15,839 --> 00:39:17,680
diff you know a different mechanism to

909
00:39:17,680 --> 00:39:21,680
minimize the impact of the village

910
00:39:21,680 --> 00:39:25,200
commercial area in when it's adjacent to

911
00:39:25,200 --> 00:39:28,320
a residential area. Um so in that sense

912
00:39:28,320 --> 00:39:30,240
I'm not that strongly that we have to

913
00:39:30,240 --> 00:39:32,000
take it out. It just seems like it you

914
00:39:32,000 --> 00:39:33,760
know to me

915
00:39:33,760 --> 00:39:38,800
um it doesn't gain much against the

916
00:39:38,800 --> 00:39:40,880
restrictions of the set tops. So that's

917
00:39:40,880 --> 00:39:43,440
why I say I'm comfortable with leaving

918
00:39:43,440 --> 00:39:46,240
it in if in fact

919
00:39:46,240 --> 00:39:48,960
>> you guys are also um

920
00:39:48,960 --> 00:39:50,160
>> leaving the 40%

921
00:39:50,160 --> 00:39:52,640
>> leaving it leaving that tier in and

922
00:39:52,640 --> 00:39:54,000
leaving it at 40%.

923
00:39:54,000 --> 00:39:57,910
>> Yep.

924
00:39:57,920 --> 00:39:59,839
And then the town council can listen to

925
00:39:59,839 --> 00:40:01,200
us and decide if they want to.

926
00:40:01,200 --> 00:40:02,880
>> I I would suggest that if we leave it

927
00:40:02,880 --> 00:40:05,599
in, we make it we leave it in at 45%,

928
00:40:05,599 --> 00:40:06,480
not 40%.

929
00:40:06,480 --> 00:40:08,400
>> 45.

930
00:40:08,400 --> 00:40:10,560
>> I'm good with that. That makes a lot of

931
00:40:10,560 --> 00:40:12,320
sense to me because then that gets you

932
00:40:12,320 --> 00:40:15,440
much closer to um where the setbacks are

933
00:40:15,440 --> 00:40:16,160
going to restrict you.

934
00:40:16,160 --> 00:40:17,599
>> Yeah. Then they're then they're kind of

935
00:40:17,599 --> 00:40:20,960
in the same range.

936
00:40:20,960 --> 00:40:22,320
And not that we should be trying to

937
00:40:22,320 --> 00:40:24,800
figure out how to make

938
00:40:24,800 --> 00:40:28,240
uh policy for a single individual but I

939
00:40:28,240 --> 00:40:32,950
think that still gets no

940
00:40:32,960 --> 00:40:35,440
» okay I agree with 40 you know leave it

941
00:40:35,440 --> 00:40:39,440
in with 45% is comfortable with me

942
00:40:39,440 --> 00:40:40,880
>> and and again this is just a

943
00:40:40,880 --> 00:40:46,470
recommendation to the town council

944
00:40:46,480 --> 00:40:49,680
» I mean if you're both oh go ahead

945
00:40:49,680 --> 00:40:53,680
>> sorry just just a um a few points on

946
00:40:53,680 --> 00:40:58,319
whatever um recommendation you make. Um

947
00:40:58,319 --> 00:41:01,200
I think your recommendation should be

948
00:41:01,200 --> 00:41:03,599
based on the submission. So whether

949
00:41:03,599 --> 00:41:06,240
approve it or not approve it, but you

950
00:41:06,240 --> 00:41:09,920
can make um if you want to if you

951
00:41:09,920 --> 00:41:12,560
recommend a change

952
00:41:12,560 --> 00:41:15,839
um then you can kind of add that as a as

953
00:41:15,839 --> 00:41:18,079
a recommendation. But you should kind of

954
00:41:18,079 --> 00:41:21,040
make a decision on the proposal itself

955
00:41:21,040 --> 00:41:25,520
whether it should be approved or not. Um

956
00:41:25,520 --> 00:41:28,880
but you can add a recommendation to that

957
00:41:28,880 --> 00:41:31,119
if you want if you think it'd be wise

958
00:41:31,119 --> 00:41:34,319
for the town council to to make it

959
00:41:34,319 --> 00:41:35,440
something different.

960
00:41:35,440 --> 00:41:36,800
>> Right.

961
00:41:36,800 --> 00:41:40,160
>> I'm sorry. Go ahead. I was say so that was sort of the the purpose of my

962
00:41:40,160 --> 00:41:43,520
initial question was if we approve which

963
00:41:43,520 --> 00:41:46,880
I'm generally intending to approve um

964
00:41:46,880 --> 00:41:48,720
but there are a couple minor things that

965
00:41:48,720 --> 00:41:52,000
feel that feel like they that they would

966
00:41:52,000 --> 00:41:55,440
be better slightly changed. So I was

967
00:41:55,440 --> 00:41:56,400
expecting

968
00:41:56,400 --> 00:41:58,319
>> we don't we don't actually approve it.

969
00:41:58,319 --> 00:41:59,359
We recommend approval.

970
00:41:59,359 --> 00:42:00,319
>> We recommend approval

971
00:42:00,319 --> 00:42:01,520
>> with the following recommendations.

972
00:42:01,520 --> 00:42:03,040
>> With the following I was going to put

973
00:42:03,040 --> 00:42:04,240
him in his conditions

974
00:42:04,240 --> 00:42:05,760
>> or Yeah, we could make it again

975
00:42:05,760 --> 00:42:07,040
whatever. So

976
00:42:07,040 --> 00:42:08,800
>> a condition of our approval that works.

977
00:42:08,800 --> 00:42:10,640
>> One of the conditions is we recommend

978
00:42:10,640 --> 00:42:12,160
>> Yeah.

979
00:42:12,160 --> 00:42:14,560
>> So I

980
00:42:14,560 --> 00:42:16,720
am on board with um recommending

981
00:42:16,720 --> 00:42:20,319
adoption of this, but I'm still I would

982
00:42:20,319 --> 00:42:24,240
rather approve 40 and you and you know

983
00:42:24,240 --> 00:42:27,119
I'm okay to disagree at this point and

984
00:42:27,119 --> 00:42:29,599
you know moving it on to the the town

985
00:42:29,599 --> 00:42:32,400
council. But how does that work then?

986
00:42:32,400 --> 00:42:33,119
Well, they're going to do what they

987
00:42:33,119 --> 00:42:33,280
want.

988
00:42:33,280 --> 00:42:35,920
>> We can agree on approval, but I don't

989
00:42:35,920 --> 00:42:40,160
necessarily agree on the the tears.

990
00:42:40,160 --> 00:42:41,760
>> Well,

991
00:42:41,760 --> 00:42:44,880
we can we can make a motion

992
00:42:44,880 --> 00:42:47,200
>> with conditions and you can vote against

993
00:42:47,200 --> 00:42:48,319
it is one way.

994
00:42:48,319 --> 00:42:50,249
>> I don't want to vote against it.

995
00:42:50,249 --> 00:42:51,040
[laughter]

996
00:42:51,040 --> 00:42:53,119
>> Or

997
00:42:53,119 --> 00:42:54,960
um

998
00:42:54,960 --> 00:42:55,839
I don't know.

999
00:42:55,839 --> 00:42:57,839
>> Yeah. I mean, I think that's the

1000
00:42:57,839 --> 00:43:00,560
options. You can vote for it or you can

1001
00:43:00,560 --> 00:43:05,040
vote for it or against it. Um

1002
00:43:05,040 --> 00:43:07,760
a couple before we get to that point. I

1003
00:43:07,760 --> 00:43:11,839
have another question and um maybe I can

1004
00:43:11,839 --> 00:43:13,280
now maybe you have a better

1005
00:43:13,280 --> 00:43:14,800
understanding of this. I'm I'm having

1006
00:43:14,800 --> 00:43:17,200
trouble in my mind trying to figure out

1007
00:43:17,200 --> 00:43:19,680
uh why we have a

1008
00:43:19,680 --> 00:43:22,880
40 or 50 or 60% uh condition for

1009
00:43:22,880 --> 00:43:27,520
landscaping or natural open space and a

1010
00:43:27,520 --> 00:43:30,240
smaller number for landscape and on a

1011
00:43:30,240 --> 00:43:32,319
larger property I see that that makes

1012
00:43:32,319 --> 00:43:36,319
some sense but on a small property um

1013
00:43:36,319 --> 00:43:40,240
I I I failed to see

1014
00:43:40,240 --> 00:43:43,280
how the what the difference between a 20

1015
00:43:43,280 --> 00:43:46,880
a 25% landscaping requirement and a 50%

1016
00:43:46,880 --> 00:43:49,440
landscaping or open space requirement is

1017
00:43:49,440 --> 00:43:51,280
I mean

1018
00:43:51,280 --> 00:43:53,359
if you got to have a 50% requirement in

1019
00:43:53,359 --> 00:43:54,960
there you're probably not going to make

1020
00:43:54,960 --> 00:44:00,480
much of it or any of it open space and if you do what what's the

1021
00:44:00,480 --> 00:44:02,079
>> so

1022
00:44:02,079 --> 00:44:03,680
if I don't know that I totally

1023
00:44:03,680 --> 00:44:05,440
understand your question but I think the

1024
00:44:05,440 --> 00:44:08,160
purpose is that the you have a total

1025
00:44:08,160 --> 00:44:10,319
amount that needs to be either

1026
00:44:10,319 --> 00:44:12,960
landscaped or open natural open And

1027
00:44:12,960 --> 00:44:14,319
that's to allow

1028
00:44:14,319 --> 00:44:16,079
>> flexibility in different parts of the

1029
00:44:16,079 --> 00:44:18,960
town. Uh depending on what you know if

1030
00:44:18,960 --> 00:44:23,760
you have a hillside that's natural that counts towards your overall figure.

1031
00:44:23,760 --> 00:44:26,960
So I my understanding is that that that

1032
00:44:26,960 --> 00:44:29,839
open space figure is to allow some

1033
00:44:29,839 --> 00:44:33,200
flexibility if there are natural parts

1034
00:44:33,200 --> 00:44:37,040
of your um property that you still get

1035
00:44:37,040 --> 00:44:39,359
credit for them that they don't have to

1036
00:44:39,359 --> 00:44:43,119
be landscaped but they still count

1037
00:44:43,119 --> 00:44:45,839
um

1038
00:44:45,839 --> 00:44:46,640
>> okay

1039
00:44:46,640 --> 00:44:49,359
>> my my thought on that is is for example

1040
00:44:49,359 --> 00:44:51,119
30% grade

1041
00:44:51,119 --> 00:44:52,800
>> yeah that's kind of where when you when

1042
00:44:52,800 --> 00:44:54,079
you start made his comment. That's kind

1043
00:44:54,079 --> 00:44:55,119
of why I figured, okay, if you've got a

1044
00:44:55,119 --> 00:44:56,319
30% grade, you're not

1045
00:44:56,319 --> 00:44:57,680
>> you're not supposed to be working on it

1046
00:44:57,680 --> 00:44:58,000
anyway.

1047
00:44:58,000 --> 00:44:59,520
>> So, you get credit for it, though.

1048
00:44:59,520 --> 00:45:03,216
>> Credit for that as open space. Yeah.

1049
00:45:03,216 --> 00:45:03,359
[snorts]

1050
00:45:03,359 --> 00:45:03,920
>> Um

1051
00:45:03,920 --> 00:45:06,800
>> Okay. Can we say in the conditions

1052
00:45:06,800 --> 00:45:09,280
>> 40 or 45

1053
00:45:09,280 --> 00:45:15,190
and move it up that way?

1054
00:45:15,200 --> 00:45:16,400
» Just consider both.

1055
00:45:16,400 --> 00:45:18,800
>> Okay. So, so you're saying that we Go

1056
00:45:18,800 --> 00:45:20,160
ahead.

1057
00:45:20,160 --> 00:45:22,079
>> So, what you could do is recommend

1058
00:45:22,079 --> 00:45:24,000
approval. So you have to recommend

1059
00:45:24,000 --> 00:45:26,400
approval or not and then say we also

1060
00:45:26,400 --> 00:45:29,599
recommend considering a 45%

1061
00:45:29,599 --> 00:45:32,640
uh as the lowest tier as opposed to 40

1062
00:45:32,640 --> 00:45:35,680
and hopefully you also recommend that 5%

1063
00:45:35,680 --> 00:45:37,200
tolerance at the thresholds but you

1064
00:45:37,200 --> 00:45:39,280
could approve it you know as it is you

1065
00:45:39,280 --> 00:45:41,599
know based on what Nile said then say we

1066
00:45:41,599 --> 00:45:44,079
also recommend those two things or as

1067
00:45:44,079 --> 00:45:46,480
many things as you want. So

1068
00:45:46,480 --> 00:45:48,079
>> yeah, and again it's just a

1069
00:45:48,079 --> 00:45:49,440
recommendation.

1070
00:45:49,440 --> 00:45:50,319
>> Okay.

1071
00:45:50,319 --> 00:45:51,680
>> Prove it up to 40 and then make a

1072
00:45:51,680 --> 00:45:54,240
recommendation to consider a 45% and

1073
00:45:54,240 --> 00:45:57,200
consider hopefully a 5% uh

1074
00:45:57,200 --> 00:45:58,880
>> tolerance at the

1075
00:45:58,880 --> 00:46:00,640
>> Yeah, maybe if I if we term it as a

1076
00:46:00,640 --> 00:46:01,599
consider then okay

1077
00:46:01,599 --> 00:46:04,079
>> can I add just a quick um add on to to

1078
00:46:04,079 --> 00:46:06,400
what null just mentioned? So null's made

1079
00:46:06,400 --> 00:46:07,920
an application and said this is what I

1080
00:46:07,920 --> 00:46:11,440
want you to approve or or review. So um

1081
00:46:11,440 --> 00:46:13,440
as an applicant he he deserves the right

1082
00:46:13,440 --> 00:46:16,160
to have a up and down yes or no on what

1083
00:46:16,160 --> 00:46:18,319
he has presented to you.

1084
00:46:18,319 --> 00:46:19,359
>> Right.

1085
00:46:19,359 --> 00:46:22,240
>> Um if in the course of this discussion

1086
00:46:22,240 --> 00:46:24,400
you've come up with some ideas and null

1087
00:46:24,400 --> 00:46:26,560
is amanable to those as the applicant

1088
00:46:26,560 --> 00:46:28,160
and says oh yeah that's fine. I'm

1089
00:46:28,160 --> 00:46:30,800
willing to amend my application in the

1090
00:46:30,800 --> 00:46:33,839
way that you have have discussed like

1091
00:46:33,839 --> 00:46:35,599
the 45%

1092
00:46:35,599 --> 00:46:39,200
tier and and the um 5% administrative

1093
00:46:39,200 --> 00:46:42,000
allowance for property size and and says

1094
00:46:42,000 --> 00:46:43,599
that yes, that's my application. Then

1095
00:46:43,599 --> 00:46:45,280
you could just make a a motion on that

1096
00:46:45,280 --> 00:46:47,200
application, right? Yes, we approve this

1097
00:46:47,200 --> 00:46:49,200
and send it to the town council. If

1098
00:46:49,200 --> 00:46:51,760
null's like, no, I don't want you to I I

1099
00:46:51,760 --> 00:46:53,200
don't agree with those. I want my

1100
00:46:53,200 --> 00:46:55,839
original um application to stand. he

1101
00:46:55,839 --> 00:46:57,920
deserves an up or down vote

1102
00:46:57,920 --> 00:47:00,160
recommendation on his original proposal.

1103
00:47:00,160 --> 00:47:00,640
Does that

1104
00:47:00,640 --> 00:47:01,680
>> Okay. Yeah.

1105
00:47:01,680 --> 00:47:04,000
>> Um and and then just one procedural

1106
00:47:04,000 --> 00:47:05,920
clarification. Um because there's only

1107
00:47:05,920 --> 00:47:09,040
three of you today. You um Jennifer, you

1108
00:47:09,040 --> 00:47:10,240
were you were saying, "Well, what if I

1109
00:47:10,240 --> 00:47:13,280
want to vote no?" Um you can, but you

1110
00:47:13,280 --> 00:47:16,160
for any motion to pass, you need at

1111
00:47:16,160 --> 00:47:18,560
least three members of the planning

1112
00:47:18,560 --> 00:47:20,720
commission to vote affirmatively. So

1113
00:47:20,720 --> 00:47:22,000
essentially, you need to be unanimous in

1114
00:47:22,000 --> 00:47:25,680
whatever decision you make tonight.

1115
00:47:25,680 --> 00:47:29,349
Then the motion.

1116
00:47:29,359 --> 00:47:34,160
» Yeah. Yeah. Any so when the the the town

1117
00:47:34,160 --> 00:47:37,200
code says that

1118
00:47:37,200 --> 00:47:38,800
uh the minimum number of yes votes

1119
00:47:38,800 --> 00:47:40,480
required to pass any issue application

1120
00:47:40,480 --> 00:47:41,839
or any other matter on which the

1121
00:47:41,839 --> 00:47:43,280
planning commission vote is required as

1122
00:47:43,280 --> 00:47:45,040
a majority of the members of the quorum

1123
00:47:45,040 --> 00:47:48,640
but must be at least three.

1124
00:47:48,640 --> 00:47:49,920
>> So

1125
00:47:49,920 --> 00:47:52,880
>> okay. So passing it as is.

1126
00:47:52,880 --> 00:47:56,079
So that passes, but then we can add

1127
00:47:56,079 --> 00:47:58,079
additional considerations, not

1128
00:47:58,079 --> 00:48:01,190
conditions.

1129
00:48:01,200 --> 00:48:03,520
Is that what you're saying?

1130
00:48:03,520 --> 00:48:04,160
>> Like,

1131
00:48:04,160 --> 00:48:06,800
>> yeah, you you can see if if null says, I

1132
00:48:06,800 --> 00:48:08,480
want this to be reviewed exactly as it

1133
00:48:08,480 --> 00:48:09,920
is in my submission, he deserves an up

1134
00:48:09,920 --> 00:48:11,040
or down vote on that.

1135
00:48:11,040 --> 00:48:11,440
>> Okay.

1136
00:48:11,440 --> 00:48:14,400
>> Say, no, we don't like that, but we

1137
00:48:14,400 --> 00:48:18,800
would like it if it were this way, and make that town council. Or you could

1138
00:48:18,800 --> 00:48:20,160
say, "Yeah, we're okay with that, but

1139
00:48:20,160 --> 00:48:22,319
we'd like it even better if you did it

1140
00:48:22,319 --> 00:48:24,319
this way." Or you could say, "Yeah, we

1141
00:48:24,319 --> 00:48:25,440
like it as is, and we're just going to

1142
00:48:25,440 --> 00:48:28,400
vote uh to recommend approval." But but

1143
00:48:28,400 --> 00:48:31,119
he deserves the your recommendation on

1144
00:48:31,119 --> 00:48:32,800
the proposal that he submitted, unless

1145
00:48:32,800 --> 00:48:35,440
he chooses to to modify that here in the

1146
00:48:35,440 --> 00:48:36,079
meeting tonight.

1147
00:48:36,079 --> 00:48:38,880
>> Okay. So, I guess we need to ask null if

1148
00:48:38,880 --> 00:48:42,640
are you willing to amend it in any way

1149
00:48:42,640 --> 00:48:53,910
based on what we've been talking about?

1150
00:48:53,920 --> 00:48:56,079
Honestly, if I knew I had to get 100%

1151
00:48:56,079 --> 00:48:57,119
votes tonight, I probably would have

1152
00:48:57,119 --> 00:48:58,880
waited till next month, [laughter]

1153
00:48:58,880 --> 00:49:02,150
>> right?

1154
00:49:02,160 --> 00:49:05,200
» But we we we still have the option, and

1155
00:49:05,200 --> 00:49:06,720
I agree with Tom, we have to either

1156
00:49:06,720 --> 00:49:09,760
approve it or disapprove it as is. And I

1157
00:49:09,760 --> 00:49:12,079
was thinking that all along, but I think

1158
00:49:12,079 --> 00:49:14,800
we still have the option to say we

1159
00:49:14,800 --> 00:49:16,960
approve it as is.

1160
00:49:16,960 --> 00:49:19,119
We would think it would be even better

1161
00:49:19,119 --> 00:49:20,640
with these changes.

1162
00:49:20,640 --> 00:49:22,559
>> So, let me ask a different question,

1163
00:49:22,559 --> 00:49:27,119
Tom. Um, no recommending that we that he

1164
00:49:27,119 --> 00:49:29,440
mod or that we modify

1165
00:49:29,440 --> 00:49:33,200
the conditions of uh his submittal. Um,

1166
00:49:33,200 --> 00:49:34,800
here what what I heard you say is we

1167
00:49:34,800 --> 00:49:37,119
can't do that. Can he do that in this

1168
00:49:37,119 --> 00:49:38,480
meeting or does he have to withdraw it

1169
00:49:38,480 --> 00:49:40,319
and then resubmit it? No,

1170
00:49:40,319 --> 00:49:42,400
>> what I'm what I'm saying is my my whole

1171
00:49:42,400 --> 00:49:44,000
point is null as an applicant has some

1172
00:49:44,000 --> 00:49:45,839
due process rights, right? Yeah. Oh,

1173
00:49:45,839 --> 00:49:46,640
absolutely. Great.

1174
00:49:46,640 --> 00:49:48,079
>> This is different than you as a planning

1175
00:49:48,079 --> 00:49:49,040
commission saying, "Hey, we're going to

1176
00:49:49,040 --> 00:49:51,280
look at at landscape in the village

1177
00:49:51,280 --> 00:49:52,160
commercial zone and we're going to come

1178
00:49:52,160 --> 00:49:53,440
up with all these different ideas and

1179
00:49:53,440 --> 00:49:54,880
we're we as a commission are going to

1180
00:49:54,880 --> 00:49:56,880
come up with what we think is best."

1181
00:49:56,880 --> 00:49:58,800
>> The process that null has has taken

1182
00:49:58,800 --> 00:50:00,640
advantage of is filing an application,

1183
00:50:00,640 --> 00:50:02,720
paying an application fee to have you

1184
00:50:02,720 --> 00:50:04,240
review this proposal,

1185
00:50:04,240 --> 00:50:05,119
>> right?

1186
00:50:05,119 --> 00:50:06,720
>> He deserves to have that proposal have

1187
00:50:06,720 --> 00:50:08,480
an up or down vote. If he says, "You

1188
00:50:08,480 --> 00:50:10,000
know what? Yes, this is my proposal, but

1189
00:50:10,000 --> 00:50:11,359
I want to modify it a little bit and I

1190
00:50:11,359 --> 00:50:13,839
want you to consider this administrative

1191
00:50:13,839 --> 00:50:15,599
allowance." He as the applicant has that

1192
00:50:15,599 --> 00:50:17,440
right to do that, right? It's still his

1193
00:50:17,440 --> 00:50:20,640
proposal, but but he he has

1194
00:50:20,640 --> 00:50:22,480
>> and he can still do that in the meeting

1195
00:50:22,480 --> 00:50:22,720
even.

1196
00:50:22,720 --> 00:50:23,520
>> Sure. Yeah.

1197
00:50:23,520 --> 00:50:25,040
>> Okay. All right. That was my only

1198
00:50:25,040 --> 00:50:26,240
question. Right.

1199
00:50:26,240 --> 00:50:27,839
>> I didn't put it in the original proposal

1200
00:50:27,839 --> 00:50:28,960
because I didn't want it to kill the

1201
00:50:28,960 --> 00:50:30,559
deal. Otherwise, I would have put it in

1202
00:50:30,559 --> 00:50:32,160
the original language. So,

1203
00:50:32,160 --> 00:50:34,960
>> yeah.

1204
00:50:34,960 --> 00:50:39,599
>> So, I would vote as is and add the 5%

1205
00:50:39,599 --> 00:50:44,870
administrative tolerance.

1206
00:50:44,880 --> 00:50:46,240
Let me think about this for a second.

1207
00:50:46,240 --> 00:50:49,200
So, so

1208
00:50:49,200 --> 00:50:50,960
10,780*

1209
00:50:50,960 --> 00:50:52,480
5%.

1210
00:50:52,480 --> 00:50:56,710
So, you're talking 5

1211
00:50:56,720 --> 00:51:00,480
10 or 15 square feet of tolerance in a

1212
00:51:00,480 --> 00:51:04,630
quarter acre lot.

1213
00:51:04,640 --> 00:51:06,880
I'm thinking 5% sounds a little big to

1214
00:51:06,880 --> 00:51:09,839
me.

1215
00:51:09,839 --> 00:51:15,990
>> Yeah.

1216
00:51:16,000 --> 00:51:17,440
gives you I mean that means it's

1217
00:51:17,440 --> 00:51:19,599
somewhere between

1218
00:51:19,599 --> 00:51:22,400
you know 11,2

1219
00:51:22,400 --> 00:51:24,800
something and you know

1220
00:51:24,800 --> 00:51:33,349
>> so

1221
00:51:33,359 --> 00:51:37,599
I mean we can improve it as is

1222
00:51:37,599 --> 00:51:42,559
>> I'm tending towards approving it as is

1223
00:51:42,559 --> 00:51:44,800
with a recommendation of the town

1224
00:51:44,800 --> 00:51:47,359
council for minor changes

1225
00:51:47,359 --> 00:51:49,760
um and that they consider and I'm

1226
00:51:49,760 --> 00:51:50,960
willing to say yeah they consider a

1227
00:51:50,960 --> 00:51:52,559
tolerance

1228
00:51:52,559 --> 00:51:55,920
uh and that 5% was suggested or some

1229
00:51:55,920 --> 00:51:58,400
other percentage might make more sense.

1230
00:51:58,400 --> 00:52:00,559
Well,

1231
00:52:00,559 --> 00:52:03,920
back up if I understood what Tom said.

1232
00:52:03,920 --> 00:52:06,160
Um,

1233
00:52:06,160 --> 00:52:09,359
we approve what null submitted.

1234
00:52:09,359 --> 00:52:10,720
>> You recommend approval of what?

1235
00:52:10,720 --> 00:52:12,480
>> Recommend approving what null submitted

1236
00:52:12,480 --> 00:52:16,240
or or that's it. And null has the

1237
00:52:16,240 --> 00:52:19,040
opportunity to change his submitt if he

1238
00:52:19,040 --> 00:52:21,680
wants to do that. So, it's not our

1239
00:52:21,680 --> 00:52:23,520
choice to say we recommend approval of

1240
00:52:23,520 --> 00:52:25,680
this with this following change. He's

1241
00:52:25,680 --> 00:52:27,680
got to re he's got to make that request.

1242
00:52:27,680 --> 00:52:30,480
Well, agreed. We don't

1243
00:52:30,480 --> 00:52:32,559
>> but at least what I heard from Tom is

1244
00:52:32,559 --> 00:52:34,559
that we can communicate to the town

1245
00:52:34,559 --> 00:52:36,880
council that these are things we

1246
00:52:36,880 --> 00:52:39,040
>> but after he tells us what he wants us

1247
00:52:39,040 --> 00:52:41,200
to approve, then we can make a decision

1248
00:52:41,200 --> 00:52:41,920
as to what to do,

1249
00:52:41,920 --> 00:52:43,200
>> right? But I think you just said you

1250
00:52:43,200 --> 00:52:45,359
don't want to change anything.

1251
00:52:45,359 --> 00:52:48,400
>> I don't want to go down 45% on the last

1252
00:52:48,400 --> 00:52:49,839
tier and we're talking about such a

1253
00:52:49,839 --> 00:52:52,559
small property. Of course, I want the 5%

1254
00:52:52,559 --> 00:52:54,160
tolerance of the thresholds put in, but

1255
00:52:54,160 --> 00:52:55,359
I didn't put it in the original language

1256
00:52:55,359 --> 00:52:56,640
because I didn't want to kill the deal.

1257
00:52:56,640 --> 00:52:59,119
So, I'm absolutely amunable to adding

1258
00:52:59,119 --> 00:53:00,960
that to your

1259
00:53:00,960 --> 00:53:02,400
>> positive recommendation. And then if you

1260
00:53:02,400 --> 00:53:03,920
want to deny it, then I want to say no,

1261
00:53:03,920 --> 00:53:06,640
I don't want to do that. [laughter]

1262
00:53:06,640 --> 00:53:07,920
>> So, he wants to know how we're going to

1263
00:53:07,920 --> 00:53:10,319
vote before you decide how what the

1264
00:53:10,319 --> 00:53:10,880
application.

1265
00:53:10,880 --> 00:53:13,359
>> So, I just I just left it out because I

1266
00:53:13,359 --> 00:53:14,720
didn't want to kill the deal because of

1267
00:53:14,720 --> 00:53:16,400
it. But certainly, if you wanted to put

1268
00:53:16,400 --> 00:53:18,400
that in, I am, you know, jumping for joy

1269
00:53:18,400 --> 00:53:20,400
about that. So, yes, I would love it,

1270
00:53:20,400 --> 00:53:20,800
you know,

1271
00:53:20,800 --> 00:53:24,160
>> which we can do. Well, we we can make

1272
00:53:24,160 --> 00:53:24,800
>> or recommend

1273
00:53:24,800 --> 00:53:26,240
>> we can make recommendations to the town

1274
00:53:26,240 --> 00:53:27,280
council.

1275
00:53:27,280 --> 00:53:31,589
Um,

1276
00:53:31,599 --> 00:53:35,359
I think I'm of the mindset that

1277
00:53:35,359 --> 00:53:39,040
personally I I think I I like the idea,

1278
00:53:39,040 --> 00:53:41,839
willing to improve it as is

1279
00:53:41,839 --> 00:53:44,000
and make some suggestions to the town

1280
00:53:44,000 --> 00:53:47,440
council about minor changes

1281
00:53:47,440 --> 00:53:50,400
and

1282
00:53:50,400 --> 00:53:52,480
you know and I'm h happy to include this

1283
00:53:52,480 --> 00:53:55,599
5% tolerance. I'm not

1284
00:53:55,599 --> 00:53:59,119
that and consider a we could even not

1285
00:53:59,119 --> 00:54:00,640
give a number just say consider a

1286
00:54:00,640 --> 00:54:02,319
somewhat higher percentage for the

1287
00:54:02,319 --> 00:54:05,280
quarter rate a lot but we figure 40%

1288
00:54:05,280 --> 00:54:07,520
seems small or we could even leave that

1289
00:54:07,520 --> 00:54:11,200
>> yeah I I guess uh well whatever yeah

1290
00:54:11,200 --> 00:54:15,760
>> where you I I think uh

1291
00:54:15,760 --> 00:54:17,760
you know we talked about the 45% for the

1292
00:54:17,760 --> 00:54:20,720
quarter acre lot and if if null's you

1293
00:54:20,720 --> 00:54:22,559
know

1294
00:54:22,559 --> 00:54:24,160
what you said you your variance that you

1295
00:54:24,160 --> 00:54:26,800
requested was 48.4%.

1296
00:54:26,800 --> 00:54:28,000
Um

1297
00:54:28,000 --> 00:54:30,319
>> that's higher than 40%.

1298
00:54:30,319 --> 00:54:31,920
>> So that's higher than 45.

1299
00:54:31,920 --> 00:54:32,480
>> It is.

1300
00:54:32,480 --> 00:54:34,400
>> So that gets you what you want. What you

1301
00:54:34,400 --> 00:54:35,920
wanted, right?

1302
00:54:35,920 --> 00:54:36,880
>> Hopefully.

1303
00:54:36,880 --> 00:54:37,359
>> Okay.

1304
00:54:37,359 --> 00:54:38,480
>> It's still going to have to go more

1305
00:54:38,480 --> 00:54:40,480
vertical at 48%. That was my original

1306
00:54:40,480 --> 00:54:41,760
plan. I really like to get it to one

1307
00:54:41,760 --> 00:54:45,760
story is is my ultimate goal. But

1308
00:54:45,760 --> 00:54:48,800
>> yeah, I mean above 45% even above 50% if

1309
00:54:48,800 --> 00:54:53,520
I have to work with that, I'm I'm gonna do that. Uh but from a design

1310
00:54:53,520 --> 00:54:56,240
point and the quality standpoint and you

1311
00:54:56,240 --> 00:54:58,319
know following you know my vision of

1312
00:54:58,319 --> 00:55:00,319
what I think the town wants and what

1313
00:55:00,319 --> 00:55:03,359
people want the more latitude be better

1314
00:55:03,359 --> 00:55:05,680
you know in that situation. So again I'm

1315
00:55:05,680 --> 00:55:07,040
not a developer here so I'm not trying

1316
00:55:07,040 --> 00:55:09,440
to just

1317
00:55:09,440 --> 00:55:11,200
do the biggest you know thing on the

1318
00:55:11,200 --> 00:55:12,800
planet that doesn't make any sense

1319
00:55:12,800 --> 00:55:16,240
monetarily anyway. Yeah. Great.

1320
00:55:16,240 --> 00:55:18,960
>> And given that he wants to leave the

1321
00:55:18,960 --> 00:55:22,720
application as ising

1322
00:55:22,720 --> 00:55:28,870
that's what we need approve or not

1323
00:55:28,880 --> 00:55:32,000
» not to change. Gotcha.

1324
00:55:32,000 --> 00:55:35,359
>> Back up. No one question. So your last

1325
00:55:35,359 --> 00:55:40,000
statement was I I would that you want to

1326
00:55:40,000 --> 00:55:42,880
amend your application to include the

1327
00:55:42,880 --> 00:55:43,839
tolerance.

1328
00:55:43,839 --> 00:55:44,720
>> Yes.

1329
00:55:44,720 --> 00:55:46,240
>> Okay.

1330
00:55:46,240 --> 00:55:46,640
>> Thanks.

1331
00:55:46,640 --> 00:55:49,359
>> So we will consider that as part of the

1332
00:55:49,359 --> 00:55:50,240
application.

1333
00:55:50,240 --> 00:55:51,599
>> If you want to deny it, then maybe we

1334
00:55:51,599 --> 00:55:56,710
talk about removing it. [laughter]

1335
00:55:56,720 --> 00:56:01,670
» Let's take that.

1336
00:56:01,680 --> 00:56:04,079
» Well, [laughter]

1337
00:56:04,079 --> 00:56:07,393
Just keep standing like I'm staring at.

1338
00:56:07,393 --> 00:56:07,440
[clears throat]

1339
00:56:07,440 --> 00:56:09,520
>> No, we're helping you get your stand

1340
00:56:09,520 --> 00:56:12,640
goal here.

1341
00:56:12,640 --> 00:56:16,549
>> Um,

1342
00:56:16,559 --> 00:56:19,760
so I I think I'm comfortable approving

1343
00:56:19,760 --> 00:56:22,640
it as amended

1344
00:56:22,640 --> 00:56:25,119
and making a suggestion.

1345
00:56:25,119 --> 00:56:27,760
>> I'm comfortable with that.

1346
00:56:27,760 --> 00:56:29,920
>> Okay.

1347
00:56:29,920 --> 00:56:33,040
Is there a motion?

1348
00:56:33,040 --> 00:56:38,559
Let me give this one a try. Okay. The planning commission recommends the

1349
00:56:38,559 --> 00:56:41,280
town council approve the ordinance amend

1350
00:56:41,280 --> 00:56:44,480
amendment proposed by Mr. Noel Benson

1351
00:56:44,480 --> 00:56:47,520
which would re revise section 1018 of

1352
00:56:47,520 --> 00:56:49,680
the town code by introducing a tiered

1353
00:56:49,680 --> 00:56:52,160
landscaping requirement in the village

1354
00:56:52,160 --> 00:56:54,720
commercial zone. This is based on the

1355
00:56:54,720 --> 00:56:56,799
following findings.

1356
00:56:56,799 --> 00:57:01,440
Um the land use um it match it matches

1357
00:57:01,440 --> 00:57:05,359
the land use or it supports the land use

1358
00:57:05,359 --> 00:57:07,839
um and town appearance goals. Um

1359
00:57:07,839 --> 00:57:10,160
especially sub goal three where the

1360
00:57:10,160 --> 00:57:12,319
planning commission will update land use

1361
00:57:12,319 --> 00:57:14,640
ordinance to make sure it stay it stays

1362
00:57:14,640 --> 00:57:17,760
true to the intention of promoting mixed

1363
00:57:17,760 --> 00:57:21,920
use Zion n or mixed use along Zion Park

1364
00:57:21,920 --> 00:57:24,240
Boulevard while allowing development

1365
00:57:24,240 --> 00:57:26,480
that meets the need the community needs

1366
00:57:26,480 --> 00:57:29,520
and desires. Uh it also meets the

1367
00:57:29,520 --> 00:57:33,599
economic goal uh sub goal A to enhance

1368
00:57:33,599 --> 00:57:35,359
and support small and independent

1369
00:57:35,359 --> 00:57:38,160
businesses that are unique to Springdale

1370
00:57:38,160 --> 00:57:40,000
and help promote the small town and

1371
00:57:40,000 --> 00:57:42,480
village character.

1372
00:57:42,480 --> 00:57:46,880
Um in in making this approval, we re we

1373
00:57:46,880 --> 00:57:49,839
make a couple recommendations to the

1374
00:57:49,839 --> 00:57:52,799
town council. Well, actually just one

1375
00:57:52,799 --> 00:57:58,559
that they review the the quarter acre um

1376
00:57:58,559 --> 00:58:01,760
minimum of 40% and determine if that

1377
00:58:01,760 --> 00:58:07,589
should be somewhat different or not.

1378
00:58:07,599 --> 00:58:10,559
» Is there a second?

1379
00:58:10,559 --> 00:58:12,880
>> Second.

1380
00:58:12,880 --> 00:58:15,920
>> All in favor?

1381
00:58:15,920 --> 00:58:16,720
>> Terry I.

1382
00:58:16,720 --> 00:58:17,680
>> Jennifer I.

1383
00:58:17,680 --> 00:58:18,640
>> All I

1384
00:58:18,640 --> 00:58:23,990
>> motion passes.

1385
00:58:24,000 --> 00:58:25,520
Appreciate the latitude on the on the

1386
00:58:25,520 --> 00:58:30,470
communication, guys. Thank you.

1387
00:58:30,480 --> 00:58:33,440
» The second action item is a public

1388
00:58:33,440 --> 00:58:35,760
hearing regarding zone change from the

1389
00:58:35,760 --> 00:58:38,160
foothill residential zone to the

1390
00:58:38,160 --> 00:58:39,920
foothill residential zone with the

1391
00:58:39,920 --> 00:58:42,000
workforce housing

1392
00:58:42,000 --> 00:58:46,960
overlay zone at 120 Kosava Drive, lot S,

1393
00:58:46,960 --> 00:58:49,119
K A1.

1394
00:58:49,119 --> 00:58:52,079
applicant is Kathy Lefave. The staff

1395
00:58:52,079 --> 00:58:54,720
contact is Nyall Connelly and Nile will

1396
00:58:54,720 --> 00:58:56,480
be presenting.

1397
00:58:56,480 --> 00:58:58,240
>> Thank you.

1398
00:58:58,240 --> 00:59:00,640
So, uh this is another public hearing as

1399
00:59:00,640 --> 00:59:03,680
you said. So, uh Miss Kathy Lefave has

1400
00:59:03,680 --> 00:59:05,599
applied for the workforce housing

1401
00:59:05,599 --> 00:59:07,760
overlay zone to be applied to her

1402
00:59:07,760 --> 00:59:11,440
property at 120 Kosava Drive. Uh there's

1403
00:59:11,440 --> 00:59:14,240
currently one single family home on her

1404
00:59:14,240 --> 00:59:17,119
property. uh her proposal would be to

1405
00:59:17,119 --> 00:59:19,839
add one additional single family home to

1406
00:59:19,839 --> 00:59:23,280
the property and to to subdivide it. Uh

1407
00:59:23,280 --> 00:59:26,160
this would be the new unit would be an

1408
00:59:26,160 --> 00:59:31,359
ownership unit rather than a rental. Um

1409
00:59:31,359 --> 00:59:33,839
if uh the zone changes approved, both

1410
00:59:33,839 --> 00:59:35,920
the new home and the existing home would

1411
00:59:35,920 --> 00:59:38,640
be deed restricted. Uh so that they must

1412
00:59:38,640 --> 00:59:40,880
be occupied by qualified households and

1413
00:59:40,880 --> 00:59:44,720
that's defined in um in the code in the

1414
00:59:44,720 --> 00:59:47,760
workforce housing overlay chapter.

1415
00:59:47,760 --> 00:59:50,240
That essentially means that they um they

1416
00:59:50,240 --> 00:59:52,480
must be employed in either Springdale or

1417
00:59:52,480 --> 00:59:55,200
Zion National Park and work a minimum of

1418
00:59:55,200 --> 01:00:00,079
30 hours per week over um over a year.

1419
01:00:00,079 --> 01:00:03,280
Um so there's several standards which

1420
01:00:03,280 --> 01:00:06,079
the workforce overlay uh zone

1421
01:00:06,079 --> 01:00:08,640
application must meet. And so the staff

1422
01:00:08,640 --> 01:00:13,440
report includes a table um for which

1423
01:00:13,440 --> 01:00:15,359
lists these requirements and how the

1424
01:00:15,359 --> 01:00:17,200
applicant intends to apply with each of

1425
01:00:17,200 --> 01:00:22,559
those. Um and similar to uh to the

1426
01:00:22,559 --> 01:00:25,680
public hearing we just had, um zone

1427
01:00:25,680 --> 01:00:29,520
changes may be approved if they um if

1428
01:00:29,520 --> 01:00:34,079
they promote the objectives and purposes

1429
01:00:34,079 --> 01:00:37,119
of the general plan or if they are

1430
01:00:37,119 --> 01:00:39,440
correcting manifest errors or to

1431
01:00:39,440 --> 01:00:41,760
accommodate substantial changes in

1432
01:00:41,760 --> 01:00:44,000
conditions that were not contemplated in

1433
01:00:44,000 --> 01:00:46,799
the general plan. Um, so I'd be happy to

1434
01:00:46,799 --> 01:00:51,040
answer any questions that you have.

1435
01:00:51,040 --> 01:00:53,200
>> And before we move on to planning

1436
01:00:53,200 --> 01:00:56,240
commission questions, can we hear the

1437
01:00:56,240 --> 01:01:02,630
applicant presentation?

1438
01:01:02,640 --> 01:01:05,760
» Kathy Lefave. Um, my husband is also one

1439
01:01:05,760 --> 01:01:07,920
of the applicants as well, Dave Keruski.

1440
01:01:07,920 --> 01:01:09,760
But I'm the one I think that you guys

1441
01:01:09,760 --> 01:01:12,880
put forward. Um, I don't I'm not sure

1442
01:01:12,880 --> 01:01:14,799
what to present to you guys and that I

1443
01:01:14,799 --> 01:01:18,079
put everything in the application. Um,

1444
01:01:18,079 --> 01:01:20,480
but that to say you I served 10 years on

1445
01:01:20,480 --> 01:01:22,000
town council. Part of that was making

1446
01:01:22,000 --> 01:01:25,280
sure Red Hawk happened and I think that

1447
01:01:25,280 --> 01:01:26,799
that's a good step in the right

1448
01:01:26,799 --> 01:01:28,480
direction for the town of Springdale.

1449
01:01:28,480 --> 01:01:31,359
Our general plan states

1450
01:01:31,359 --> 01:01:33,839
that it is a desire of this community

1451
01:01:33,839 --> 01:01:36,160
and that's based on community feedback

1452
01:01:36,160 --> 01:01:39,680
that we have a v variety of population.

1453
01:01:39,680 --> 01:01:42,160
Right now we are fast approaching kind

1454
01:01:42,160 --> 01:01:44,720
of more of a aged retired population and

1455
01:01:44,720 --> 01:01:47,520
that it's not affordable to live in the

1456
01:01:47,520 --> 01:01:49,520
town of Springdale.

1457
01:01:49,520 --> 01:01:52,000
There's no low-income housing happening

1458
01:01:52,000 --> 01:01:54,079
in Springdale. Red Hawk's not low-income

1459
01:01:54,079 --> 01:01:56,400
housing. It's attainable housing. It's

1460
01:01:56,400 --> 01:01:58,799
based on your wage. You know, even a

1461
01:01:58,799 --> 01:02:01,440
waitress with a partner who might work

1462
01:02:01,440 --> 01:02:04,000
at Zion National Park

1463
01:02:04,000 --> 01:02:05,200
can't afford to live in the town of

1464
01:02:05,200 --> 01:02:07,200
Springdale unless there is attainable

1465
01:02:07,200 --> 01:02:09,040
housing.

1466
01:02:09,040 --> 01:02:10,960
I wrote a letter in support of the

1467
01:02:10,960 --> 01:02:12,799
workforce housing overlay zone when it

1468
01:02:12,799 --> 01:02:15,200
was being presented. Part of my letter

1469
01:02:15,200 --> 01:02:16,559
stated that I thought it was a little

1470
01:02:16,559 --> 01:02:20,640
too dense. I thought that the number of

1471
01:02:20,640 --> 01:02:23,680
units that could be on a oneacre parcel

1472
01:02:23,680 --> 01:02:26,880
might be too much. Um, but I thought it

1473
01:02:26,880 --> 01:02:30,559
was a great product to push forward. In

1474
01:02:30,559 --> 01:02:32,720
our case,

1475
01:02:32,720 --> 01:02:34,240
it's like I'm putting my money where my

1476
01:02:34,240 --> 01:02:36,319
mouth is. I am an advocate for workforce

1477
01:02:36,319 --> 01:02:38,799
housing in this community and so far

1478
01:02:38,799 --> 01:02:41,599
only businesses have tried to provide

1479
01:02:41,599 --> 01:02:43,520
housing for employees who live in

1480
01:02:43,520 --> 01:02:47,280
Springdale. So, we're saying that we

1481
01:02:47,280 --> 01:02:51,680
would subdiv subdivide our property and

1482
01:02:51,680 --> 01:02:54,319
allow somebody who lives and work or

1483
01:02:54,319 --> 01:02:59,119
doesn't live works in the community to

1484
01:02:59,119 --> 01:03:02,559
obtain that parcel and build a home.

1485
01:03:02,559 --> 01:03:05,280
We're willing to deed restrict our home.

1486
01:03:05,280 --> 01:03:07,599
That means that our home can only ever

1487
01:03:07,599 --> 01:03:10,559
be sold to somebody who works as defined

1488
01:03:10,559 --> 01:03:12,960
in the town full-time or a park

1489
01:03:12,960 --> 01:03:15,599
employee. We're okay with that. We sat

1490
01:03:15,599 --> 01:03:17,760
down as a family and we talked about it.

1491
01:03:17,760 --> 01:03:20,000
You know, my children of Dave and I's

1492
01:03:20,000 --> 01:03:21,520
children will eventually inherit our

1493
01:03:21,520 --> 01:03:24,079
property. It makes it not as valuable.

1494
01:03:24,079 --> 01:03:26,799
We're like, we're all okay with that.

1495
01:03:26,799 --> 01:03:29,440
our direct neighbor, Teresa Silcox, who

1496
01:03:29,440 --> 01:03:31,839
has her son, his girlfriend, and their

1497
01:03:31,839 --> 01:03:34,400
son living in the property,

1498
01:03:34,400 --> 01:03:36,319
are in favor of it and have written a

1499
01:03:36,319 --> 01:03:38,240
letter of recommendation.

1500
01:03:38,240 --> 01:03:39,920
Um, there have been a few other people

1501
01:03:39,920 --> 01:03:41,039
who have written letters of

1502
01:03:41,039 --> 01:03:44,079
recommendation. Jonathan Zambella had

1503
01:03:44,079 --> 01:03:46,480
wrote to you and had some concerns. You

1504
01:03:46,480 --> 01:03:49,440
know, how does this potentially create a

1505
01:03:49,440 --> 01:03:52,000
precedent? I think it's a good precedent

1506
01:03:52,000 --> 01:03:55,440
to set. It's allowed in Foothill

1507
01:03:55,440 --> 01:03:57,920
residential zone,

1508
01:03:57,920 --> 01:03:59,599
which could be far more dense than what

1509
01:03:59,599 --> 01:04:01,760
we're proposing. I'd like to set a

1510
01:04:01,760 --> 01:04:03,839
precedent that in Foothill residential,

1511
01:04:03,839 --> 01:04:06,480
maybe it shouldn't be eight per acre.

1512
01:04:06,480 --> 01:04:09,520
Maybe it just should be one per acre,

1513
01:04:09,520 --> 01:04:12,640
one per however we've divided it. We

1514
01:04:12,640 --> 01:04:14,319
wouldn't want to impact our neighbors

1515
01:04:14,319 --> 01:04:16,319
any more than just divided in two

1516
01:04:16,319 --> 01:04:17,920
parcels.

1517
01:04:17,920 --> 01:04:20,240
Um,

1518
01:04:20,240 --> 01:04:22,319
I think that it's going to be like I'm

1519
01:04:22,319 --> 01:04:24,640
going to just take the microphone down

1520
01:04:24,640 --> 01:04:26,160
because I know you guys I know there are

1521
01:04:26,160 --> 01:04:28,319
going to be a lot of questions and I got

1522
01:04:28,319 --> 01:04:30,240
a lot of comments and I just kind of

1523
01:04:30,240 --> 01:04:33,280
came and spoke from my heart. Um, you

1524
01:04:33,280 --> 01:04:34,559
know, part of that is I've been a

1525
01:04:34,559 --> 01:04:36,799
supporter of workforce housing. Another

1526
01:04:36,799 --> 01:04:39,359
thing is that I think that a

1527
01:04:39,359 --> 01:04:40,720
consideration because this is a

1528
01:04:40,720 --> 01:04:43,280
legislative matter. I could meet all the

1529
01:04:43,280 --> 01:04:44,799
requirements that you request and

1530
01:04:44,799 --> 01:04:46,799
because I didn't wear the right outfit

1531
01:04:46,799 --> 01:04:48,559
tonight, you could just throw it out. I

1532
01:04:48,559 --> 01:04:51,280
mean, it's not I it's for you guys to

1533
01:04:51,280 --> 01:04:53,039
decide, is it appropriate in this

1534
01:04:53,039 --> 01:04:55,359
situation? And in every situation, I

1535
01:04:55,359 --> 01:04:56,240
think you have to look at it

1536
01:04:56,240 --> 01:04:59,200
differently. For our situation where I

1537
01:04:59,200 --> 01:05:01,280
stand, when we stand in our backyard, we

1538
01:05:01,280 --> 01:05:03,440
can look across the river and we can see

1539
01:05:03,440 --> 01:05:06,400
two homes. And those homes both are, you

1540
01:05:06,400 --> 01:05:08,240
know, larger homes than ours. They both

1541
01:05:08,240 --> 01:05:09,680
have guest houses. They both have

1542
01:05:09,680 --> 01:05:12,160
outbuildings. We have a small footprint

1543
01:05:12,160 --> 01:05:14,799
on our two acres. We have a small single

1544
01:05:14,799 --> 01:05:16,720
family resident. We don't have a guest

1545
01:05:16,720 --> 01:05:19,599
house. We don't have outuildings.

1546
01:05:19,599 --> 01:05:21,599
So, I don't think it's any more of an

1547
01:05:21,599 --> 01:05:23,200
impact

1548
01:05:23,200 --> 01:05:25,839
visually to neighbors

1549
01:05:25,839 --> 01:05:28,640
traffic-wise than putting a guest house,

1550
01:05:28,640 --> 01:05:32,559
but it allows somebody who

1551
01:05:32,559 --> 01:05:34,480
works in our community to have an

1552
01:05:34,480 --> 01:05:36,400
opportunity to live here. Jonathan

1553
01:05:36,400 --> 01:05:37,920
Zambella's

1554
01:05:37,920 --> 01:05:39,520
um comments, I think two might have

1555
01:05:39,520 --> 01:05:42,480
said, you know, it's a a way to profit.

1556
01:05:42,480 --> 01:05:44,000
We're not going to profit from this.

1557
01:05:44,000 --> 01:05:45,920
We're willing to reduce the value of our

1558
01:05:45,920 --> 01:05:49,440
home. Um and

1559
01:05:49,440 --> 01:05:51,359
you know, I think that it's a positive

1560
01:05:51,359 --> 01:05:54,880
thing. Um

1561
01:05:54,880 --> 01:05:56,720
I'm nervous. I'm not usually nervous. I

1562
01:05:56,720 --> 01:05:58,079
think I'm nervous because there's only

1563
01:05:58,079 --> 01:05:59,200
three and you all have [laughter] to

1564
01:05:59,200 --> 01:06:01,440
vote in favor of it. So, it makes it a

1565
01:06:01,440 --> 01:06:04,400
little more nerve-wracking. Um, so I

1566
01:06:04,400 --> 01:06:05,760
don't I guess I don't know. Is there

1567
01:06:05,760 --> 01:06:09,109
anything else?

1568
01:06:09,119 --> 01:06:10,559
» So I'll sit down and you guys can ask

1569
01:06:10,559 --> 01:06:12,079
questions.

1570
01:06:12,079 --> 01:06:13,930
>> Take the mic. No, I'm just seasoning.

1571
01:06:13,930 --> 01:06:18,789
[laughter]

1572
01:06:18,799 --> 01:06:20,559
» Um, are there questions from the

1573
01:06:20,559 --> 01:06:22,319
planning commission to either the staff

1574
01:06:22,319 --> 01:06:24,160
or the applicants?

1575
01:06:24,160 --> 01:06:29,039
>> I have a question for the staff. Um, so,

1576
01:06:29,039 --> 01:06:32,400
uh, the the staff notes indicate that,

1577
01:06:32,400 --> 01:06:34,480
uh, that a second home would come

1578
01:06:34,480 --> 01:06:37,440
through in a normal DDR

1579
01:06:37,440 --> 01:06:40,160
at some point when that is applied for.

1580
01:06:40,160 --> 01:06:43,920
Um, I also ask about the subdivision.

1581
01:06:43,920 --> 01:06:47,599
Um, because there are some requirements

1582
01:06:47,599 --> 01:06:50,960
relative to the subdivision uh, in this

1583
01:06:50,960 --> 01:06:53,920
ordinance. Um, is that also would that

1584
01:06:53,920 --> 01:06:58,390
also come through as a separate item?

1585
01:06:58,400 --> 01:07:00,240
Yeah. So the subdivision would come

1586
01:07:00,240 --> 01:07:04,720
forward um subsequent to an approval and

1587
01:07:04,720 --> 01:07:06,720
that would go through the subdivision

1588
01:07:06,720 --> 01:07:08,880
process which does come to the town c or

1589
01:07:08,880 --> 01:07:10,960
to the planning commission not the town

1590
01:07:10,960 --> 01:07:11,520
council

1591
01:07:11,520 --> 01:07:13,039
>> right we would go through the planning

1592
01:07:13,039 --> 01:07:14,400
we would again recommend to the town

1593
01:07:14,400 --> 01:07:16,799
council. So no or actually no the the

1594
01:07:16,799 --> 01:07:18,559
town council is not involved

1595
01:07:18,559 --> 01:07:20,240
subdivisions. It's just the planning

1596
01:07:20,240 --> 01:07:24,880
>> because so at this point I can defer any

1597
01:07:24,880 --> 01:07:28,559
concerns I have about the requirements

1598
01:07:28,559 --> 01:07:30,240
that the ordinance states about what

1599
01:07:30,240 --> 01:07:32,240
needs to be in the subdivision

1600
01:07:32,240 --> 01:07:34,240
documentation until that presentation

1601
01:07:34,240 --> 01:07:36,400
comes.

1602
01:07:36,400 --> 01:07:39,280
>> Yes. I think tonight your decision is

1603
01:07:39,280 --> 01:07:42,319
based on uh is this an appropriate

1604
01:07:42,319 --> 01:07:45,280
location? um is you know the number of

1605
01:07:45,280 --> 01:07:48,319
units appropriate and that's that's kind

1606
01:07:48,319 --> 01:07:52,549
of what you're looking at.

1607
01:07:52,559 --> 01:07:56,230
» Yes.

1608
01:07:56,240 --> 01:07:58,559
» I'm sorry I didn't think to say that in

1609
01:07:58,559 --> 01:08:00,079
the proposal we gave you kind of a

1610
01:08:00,079 --> 01:08:02,960
concept. We haven't hired anybody to

1611
01:08:02,960 --> 01:08:05,359
design a home. It it wouldn't look like

1612
01:08:05,359 --> 01:08:08,480
a rectangle box. It would fit within all

1613
01:08:08,480 --> 01:08:10,799
the 30% grades and requirements and

1614
01:08:10,799 --> 01:08:12,720
everything. and we'd bring that proposal

1615
01:08:12,720 --> 01:08:14,559
back for approval in front of the

1616
01:08:14,559 --> 01:08:16,400
planning commission.

1617
01:08:16,400 --> 01:08:16,799
Okay.

1618
01:08:16,799 --> 01:08:18,480
>> So, actually, I want you to stay for a

1619
01:08:18,480 --> 01:08:20,880
second. So, I have a question on that.

1620
01:08:20,880 --> 01:08:23,920
>> Um, so yeah, the the the box that's

1621
01:08:23,920 --> 01:08:24,400
drawn

1622
01:08:24,400 --> 01:08:26,480
>> that's No, that's just a concept of

1623
01:08:26,480 --> 01:08:28,159
>> it's a concept. It's a concept of where

1624
01:08:28,159 --> 01:08:28,960
it's going to be,

1625
01:08:28,960 --> 01:08:30,640
>> just where it would sit.

1626
01:08:30,640 --> 01:08:34,400
>> It's also quite small. It's about under

1627
01:08:34,400 --> 01:08:36,640
a thousand square feet, which is not

1628
01:08:36,640 --> 01:08:38,239
part of your plan, I take it that.

1629
01:08:38,239 --> 01:08:40,880
>> No. So you you would might expect it to

1630
01:08:40,880 --> 01:08:43,359
be some size different than

1631
01:08:43,359 --> 01:08:45,839
>> 1400 or 1500 square feet small. It needs

1632
01:08:45,839 --> 01:08:48,319
to be a small footprint. You know, our

1633
01:08:48,319 --> 01:08:49,679
home is a small footprint. You know,

1634
01:08:49,679 --> 01:08:51,199
maybe it's 2,000 square feet, but it's

1635
01:08:51,199 --> 01:08:52,480
not going to be a large home. It's not

1636
01:08:52,480 --> 01:08:54,480
going to be a 5,000 foot guest house

1637
01:08:54,480 --> 01:08:56,640
type thing, but that has to come back

1638
01:08:56,640 --> 01:08:59,759
before you guys as well. And we didn't

1639
01:08:59,759 --> 01:09:01,679
pay to design the home and bring that

1640
01:09:01,679 --> 01:09:04,719
forward because we weren't sure if

1641
01:09:04,719 --> 01:09:07,040
>> Right.

1642
01:09:07,040 --> 01:09:09,279
Well, it impacts sort of our thinking

1643
01:09:09,279 --> 01:09:10,960
here in that one of the requirements is

1644
01:09:10,960 --> 01:09:13,040
that the home blend in with the other

1645
01:09:13,040 --> 01:09:14,000
homes in the neighborhood.

1646
01:09:14,000 --> 01:09:16,080
>> It will be for it will be consistent

1647
01:09:16,080 --> 01:09:18,799
with the size of the homes in the

1648
01:09:18,799 --> 01:09:22,640
neighborhood. It will be consists 3200

1649
01:09:22,640 --> 01:09:24,159
square feet including the garage and the

1650
01:09:24,159 --> 01:09:26,480
pool as Mark measured it. He measured

1651
01:09:26,480 --> 01:09:28,319
the swimming pool that which is just

1652
01:09:28,319 --> 01:09:30,799
again part of landscaping. Our home is a

1653
01:09:30,799 --> 01:09:33,199
small footprint. Teresa Silox's home is

1654
01:09:33,199 --> 01:09:37,279
a small footprint. We have no intention

1655
01:09:37,279 --> 01:09:40,159
of having that home mimic what got put

1656
01:09:40,159 --> 01:09:42,480
up on top of the hill.

1657
01:09:42,480 --> 01:09:43,679
I wouldn't think the town would want

1658
01:09:43,679 --> 01:09:45,759
that.

1659
01:09:45,759 --> 01:09:48,640
>> 5,000 square foot and it has a separate

1660
01:09:48,640 --> 01:09:50,400
garage that's huge. I mean, it's

1661
01:09:50,400 --> 01:09:53,520
enormous and it's a second home. That I

1662
01:09:53,520 --> 01:09:55,679
would not want to be held to that

1663
01:09:55,679 --> 01:09:57,600
standard. I think that that would be

1664
01:09:57,600 --> 01:09:59,520
>> I guess my question was more along the

1665
01:09:59,520 --> 01:10:03,440
sense of is its smallness going to stand

1666
01:10:03,440 --> 01:10:05,199
out in amongst these homes that are

1667
01:10:05,199 --> 01:10:06,239
3,000 square feet.

1668
01:10:06,239 --> 01:10:08,320
>> Well, we have a we haven't designed the

1669
01:10:08,320 --> 01:10:11,280
size of it. The exterior will match the

1670
01:10:11,280 --> 01:10:13,440
exteriors of the existing homes, the use

1671
01:10:13,440 --> 01:10:17,360
of rusted metal and stone and glass. Um

1672
01:10:17,360 --> 01:10:20,880
and um Ellen McKenna would be the choice

1673
01:10:20,880 --> 01:10:22,560
to design it. She's got a beautiful

1674
01:10:22,560 --> 01:10:26,480
sense of designing. Mark Fenamp,

1675
01:10:26,480 --> 01:10:27,760
you know, we've had him look at the

1676
01:10:27,760 --> 01:10:30,480
property. Yeah, it'll be consistent with

1677
01:10:30,480 --> 01:10:32,000
what's going on in the neighborhood. Not

1678
01:10:32,000 --> 01:10:35,440
to devalue anybody else's property.

1679
01:10:35,440 --> 01:10:37,199
>> Any other questions before I sit?

1680
01:10:37,199 --> 01:10:38,320
>> I

1681
01:10:38,320 --> 01:10:40,400
>> for the planning I mean for the staff

1682
01:10:40,400 --> 01:10:44,080
just confirming that the listed

1683
01:10:44,080 --> 01:10:47,360
development requirements can be added to

1684
01:10:47,360 --> 01:10:49,440
during the development process. Is that

1685
01:10:49,440 --> 01:10:52,560
correct to include like the town color

1686
01:10:52,560 --> 01:10:54,080
palette and all of those kinds of

1687
01:10:54,080 --> 01:10:55,280
things?

1688
01:10:55,280 --> 01:10:58,480
>> Yeah. And so that that probably doesn't

1689
01:10:58,480 --> 01:11:00,880
need to be added as a condition because

1690
01:11:00,880 --> 01:11:03,840
any any design development review

1691
01:11:03,840 --> 01:11:06,320
application will automatically be

1692
01:11:06,320 --> 01:11:07,760
subject to all of those standards.

1693
01:11:07,760 --> 01:11:09,440
>> Okay. I just wanted to confirm that.

1694
01:11:09,440 --> 01:11:11,120
Thank you.

1695
01:11:11,120 --> 01:11:13,040
Can I

1696
01:11:13,040 --> 01:11:15,199
>> So, so your the specific concern about

1697
01:11:15,199 --> 01:11:16,400
the color palette, that was something

1698
01:11:16,400 --> 01:11:18,239
that was brought up in an email from

1699
01:11:18,239 --> 01:11:19,120
another commissioner.

1700
01:11:19,120 --> 01:11:19,760
>> Yes.

1701
01:11:19,760 --> 01:11:23,040
>> Um, so Nile is correct that during the

1702
01:11:23,040 --> 01:11:24,320
design development review process,

1703
01:11:24,320 --> 01:11:26,239
typical things like lighting and height

1704
01:11:26,239 --> 01:11:28,880
and size and setbacks will come up. Um,

1705
01:11:28,880 --> 01:11:31,199
the color palette and design standards

1706
01:11:31,199 --> 01:11:33,280
are not applicable to homes or or

1707
01:11:33,280 --> 01:11:35,280
structures which are less than 3,000

1708
01:11:35,280 --> 01:11:39,199
square feet, which it sounds like would

1709
01:11:39,199 --> 01:11:41,679
include this. So if that is something

1710
01:11:41,679 --> 01:11:44,239
that you want to make sure is included,

1711
01:11:44,239 --> 01:11:46,480
you can because this is a legislative

1712
01:11:46,480 --> 01:11:48,480
process through the zone change, you can

1713
01:11:48,480 --> 01:12:09,750
say we want to make sure that

1714
01:12:09,760 --> 01:12:11,600
Does the planning commission have any

1715
01:12:11,600 --> 01:12:13,679
other questions for the applicant or the

1716
01:12:13,679 --> 01:12:18,310
staff?

1717
01:12:18,320 --> 01:12:21,600
Are there any questions from the public?

1718
01:12:21,600 --> 01:12:27,910
for the applicant or the staff.

1719
01:12:27,920 --> 01:12:30,960
Okay. Was there any questions? No. Okay.

1720
01:12:30,960 --> 01:12:32,800
Is there a motion to open public

1721
01:12:32,800 --> 01:12:34,880
hearing?

1722
01:12:34,880 --> 01:12:38,560
>> Make a motion to open public hearing.

1723
01:12:38,560 --> 01:12:40,320
>> Do we have a second?

1724
01:12:40,320 --> 01:12:41,360
>> Second.

1725
01:12:41,360 --> 01:12:43,840
>> Motion by Terry, second by Paul. All in

1726
01:12:43,840 --> 01:12:44,640
favor?

1727
01:12:44,640 --> 01:12:45,520
>> Terry. I.

1728
01:12:45,520 --> 01:12:46,560
>> Jennifer I.

1729
01:12:46,560 --> 01:12:47,440
>> Paul. I.

1730
01:12:47,440 --> 01:12:50,080
>> Motion passes.

1731
01:12:50,080 --> 01:12:52,560
Moving into public comment period. We

1732
01:12:52,560 --> 01:12:55,440
got quite a few letters and we really

1733
01:12:55,440 --> 01:12:56,960
appreciate the input and the

1734
01:12:56,960 --> 01:12:58,960
perspectives

1735
01:12:58,960 --> 01:13:02,239
and we are open to public comment at

1736
01:13:02,239 --> 01:13:05,040
this time. Is anybody planning on

1737
01:13:05,040 --> 01:13:08,550
speaking?

1738
01:13:08,560 --> 01:13:09,360
» Okay.

1739
01:13:09,360 --> 01:13:10,880
>> Benson. Um I just want to say the

1740
01:13:10,880 --> 01:13:12,800
workforce housing overlay zone uh

1741
01:13:12,800 --> 01:13:14,719
ordinance I think is a real scary

1742
01:13:14,719 --> 01:13:16,960
ordinance with density and setbacks and

1743
01:13:16,960 --> 01:13:19,120
all those things. this application

1744
01:13:19,120 --> 01:13:20,960
doesn't trigger any of those issues that

1745
01:13:20,960 --> 01:13:24,080
I see and for me I fully support uh the

1746
01:13:24,080 --> 01:13:26,080
application. Thanks.

1747
01:13:26,080 --> 01:13:32,390
>> Thank you.

1748
01:13:32,400 --> 01:13:38,149
» Any other comments from the public?

1749
01:13:38,159 --> 01:13:40,719
Is there a motion to close public

1750
01:13:40,719 --> 01:13:43,199
hearing?

1751
01:13:43,199 --> 01:13:44,880
>> Make a motion to close public hearing.

1752
01:13:44,880 --> 01:13:45,440
>> Second.

1753
01:13:45,440 --> 01:13:48,080
>> Motion by Terry, second by Paul. All in

1754
01:13:48,080 --> 01:13:48,719
favor?

1755
01:13:48,719 --> 01:13:49,600
>> Terry I.

1756
01:13:49,600 --> 01:13:50,719
>> Jennifer I.

1757
01:13:50,719 --> 01:13:51,760
>> All I.

1758
01:13:51,760 --> 01:13:54,800
>> Motion passes.

1759
01:13:54,800 --> 01:14:03,350
Is there a response from the applicant?

1760
01:14:03,360 --> 01:14:06,800
» Kathy Lefave. Thank you. Um, you know,

1761
01:14:06,800 --> 01:14:08,800
there were several people and actually

1762
01:14:08,800 --> 01:14:10,159
there's a few letters that I know got

1763
01:14:10,159 --> 01:14:12,560
mailed that didn't hit your desk and I

1764
01:14:12,560 --> 01:14:15,520
appreciate people in the community

1765
01:14:15,520 --> 01:14:17,040
speaking out and saying this is

1766
01:14:17,040 --> 01:14:19,360
something we can support. Just think

1767
01:14:19,360 --> 01:14:21,679
it's really important as a community

1768
01:14:21,679 --> 01:14:24,960
when we can when we have the opportunity

1769
01:14:24,960 --> 01:14:26,880
to allow somebody who works in our

1770
01:14:26,880 --> 01:14:28,960
community to be part of the fabric of

1771
01:14:28,960 --> 01:14:31,520
our community. I'm a firm believer that

1772
01:14:31,520 --> 01:14:34,159
those people who serve us our meals when

1773
01:14:34,159 --> 01:14:36,400
we go to the restaurant are a viable

1774
01:14:36,400 --> 01:14:38,000
part of our community. They make a

1775
01:14:38,000 --> 01:14:40,640
difference. They're the future. They're

1776
01:14:40,640 --> 01:14:42,159
the people who might have children

1777
01:14:42,159 --> 01:14:44,800
running up and down the street. So, I

1778
01:14:44,800 --> 01:14:46,800
hope that you guys will can support this

1779
01:14:46,800 --> 01:14:48,560
application. I think it's a positive

1780
01:14:48,560 --> 01:14:52,000
thing. Thank you.

1781
01:14:52,000 --> 01:14:54,239
>> Okay. Moving into planning commission

1782
01:14:54,239 --> 01:14:59,830
deliberation.

1783
01:14:59,840 --> 01:15:00,480
Yes.

1784
01:15:00,480 --> 01:15:04,400
>> Okay. Lost track here. Sorry.

1785
01:15:04,400 --> 01:15:09,430
>> You did. Okay. That's right.

1786
01:15:09,440 --> 01:15:12,080
» I guess I'll start. Um

1787
01:15:12,080 --> 01:15:14,159
I understand some of the concerns that

1788
01:15:14,159 --> 01:15:16,719
were brought to the attention um

1789
01:15:16,719 --> 01:15:18,640
regarding

1790
01:15:18,640 --> 01:15:22,560
this overlay zone. Um, however, this

1791
01:15:22,560 --> 01:15:25,199
seems like an ideal situation that fits

1792
01:15:25,199 --> 01:15:28,320
right into what is intended and meets

1793
01:15:28,320 --> 01:15:30,400
the requirements.

1794
01:15:30,400 --> 01:15:33,360
And I too am

1795
01:15:33,360 --> 01:15:36,640
a huge proponent of attainable housing

1796
01:15:36,640 --> 01:15:39,600
and definitely support it when it makes

1797
01:15:39,600 --> 01:15:41,520
sense.

1798
01:15:41,520 --> 01:15:44,320
And I believe that with all of the

1799
01:15:44,320 --> 01:15:47,440
requirements that are in place,

1800
01:15:47,440 --> 01:15:51,600
um, and what we've heard today, the

1801
01:15:51,600 --> 01:15:53,440
intentions

1802
01:15:53,440 --> 01:15:55,920
and like I said, meeting all the

1803
01:15:55,920 --> 01:15:57,840
requirements,

1804
01:15:57,840 --> 01:16:02,470
I I support it.

1805
01:16:02,480 --> 01:16:05,600
» Overall, I I agree. I I I think um this

1806
01:16:05,600 --> 01:16:09,440
is the kind of um the kind of proposal

1807
01:16:09,440 --> 01:16:11,520
we would want for a workforce housing

1808
01:16:11,520 --> 01:16:13,679
overlay zone. Um [snorts]

1809
01:16:13,679 --> 01:16:17,280
and it's I'm would be very concerned

1810
01:16:17,280 --> 01:16:20,719
about the high density that's allowed in

1811
01:16:20,719 --> 01:16:22,480
a foothill residential zone, but this is

1812
01:16:22,480 --> 01:16:25,840
a density that I think makes sense. Um,

1813
01:16:25,840 --> 01:16:28,239
I viewed the property and it looks like

1814
01:16:28,239 --> 01:16:32,000
a a house could be placed there um

1815
01:16:32,000 --> 01:16:34,080
without interference with really any of

1816
01:16:34,080 --> 01:16:38,159
the neighboring houses. Um,

1817
01:16:38,159 --> 01:16:40,159
>> yeah, go ahead.

1818
01:16:40,159 --> 01:16:41,840
>> No, I I was just going to say I agree

1819
01:16:41,840 --> 01:16:43,520
and I think you know the the public

1820
01:16:43,520 --> 01:16:46,239
feedback that we've received has been

1821
01:16:46,239 --> 01:16:48,080
predominantly in favor of this as well.

1822
01:16:48,080 --> 01:16:51,199
So if if we got nothing else, I can make

1823
01:16:51,199 --> 01:16:53,679
a motion if you want.

1824
01:16:53,679 --> 01:16:55,183
I'm happy to make a motion if

1825
01:16:55,183 --> 01:16:55,760
[clears throat] you guys are ready.

1826
01:16:55,760 --> 01:16:56,880
Let's take turns.

1827
01:16:56,880 --> 01:16:57,199
>> Yeah.

1828
01:16:57,199 --> 01:16:58,320
And then include

1829
01:16:58,320 --> 01:17:00,080
>> Do you have something else?

1830
01:17:00,080 --> 01:17:01,360
>> Yeah. That's

1831
01:17:01,360 --> 01:17:04,080
>> perfect.

1832
01:17:04,080 --> 01:17:06,800
>> So, if we're ready for a motion,

1833
01:17:06,800 --> 01:17:08,960
>> so I move that the planning commission

1834
01:17:08,960 --> 01:17:10,960
recommends the town council approve the

1835
01:17:10,960 --> 01:17:12,880
zone map amendment application which

1836
01:17:12,880 --> 01:17:14,640
would apply to workforce which would

1837
01:17:14,640 --> 01:17:16,880
apply the workforce housing overlay zone

1838
01:17:16,880 --> 01:17:19,760
to the property at 120 Kosava Drive.

1839
01:17:19,760 --> 01:17:21,120
This recommendation is based on the

1840
01:17:21,120 --> 01:17:24,080
following findings. The change supports

1841
01:17:24,080 --> 01:17:26,320
chapter 3 housing of the town's general

1842
01:17:26,320 --> 01:17:28,239
plan under subgoal A, maintain

1843
01:17:28,239 --> 01:17:30,000
Springdale's character as a rural

1844
01:17:30,000 --> 01:17:33,440
residential community and sub goal B,

1845
01:17:33,440 --> 01:17:35,360
promote community character by providing

1846
01:17:35,360 --> 01:17:37,199
opportunities for more key contributors

1847
01:17:37,199 --> 01:17:39,440
to to the community to live full-time in

1848
01:17:39,440 --> 01:17:41,840
the community. It supports Springdale

1849
01:17:41,840 --> 01:17:43,920
Town Code Chapter 13, article G,

1850
01:17:43,920 --> 01:17:46,239
workforce housing overlay zone, an

1851
01:17:46,239 --> 01:17:48,239
ordinance adopted to help facilitate the

1852
01:17:48,239 --> 01:17:50,239
available availability of attainable

1853
01:17:50,239 --> 01:17:52,159
housing options for employees working in

1854
01:17:52,159 --> 01:17:55,280
Springdale and Zion National Park. In

1855
01:17:55,280 --> 01:17:58,159
adopting the WHZ, the town found that

1856
01:17:58,159 --> 01:18:00,000
having employees of local businesses

1857
01:18:00,000 --> 01:18:01,920
live in the community strengthens the

1858
01:18:01,920 --> 01:18:03,840
community and adds to the town's village

1859
01:18:03,840 --> 01:18:06,080
character. This zone change will

1860
01:18:06,080 --> 01:18:09,840
resemble two lots and and no more. Each

1861
01:18:09,840 --> 01:18:12,000
with a two-bedroom home and each housing

1862
01:18:12,000 --> 01:18:14,560
two adults and each requiring qualified

1863
01:18:14,560 --> 01:18:16,560
occupancy of actively employed adults in

1864
01:18:16,560 --> 01:18:19,120
the town supporting sections 3, four,

1865
01:18:19,120 --> 01:18:22,640
and five and are compliant with the town

1866
01:18:22,640 --> 01:18:26,000
color palette. Both lots will be deed

1867
01:18:26,000 --> 01:18:27,199
restricted in accordance with the

1868
01:18:27,199 --> 01:18:29,760
workforce housing overlay zone. A

1869
01:18:29,760 --> 01:18:31,600
restrictive covenant will also be filed

1870
01:18:31,600 --> 01:18:33,600
with the Washington County Recorders

1871
01:18:33,600 --> 01:18:35,679
Office that stipulates the units must be

1872
01:18:35,679 --> 01:18:38,640
sold or rented to qualified households.

1873
01:18:38,640 --> 01:18:40,320
And furthermore, in accordance with

1874
01:18:40,320 --> 01:18:42,719
1013G12A,

1875
01:18:42,719 --> 01:18:45,440
a development agreement or 10 to 1312, a

1876
01:18:45,440 --> 01:18:46,719
development agreement will be entered

1877
01:18:46,719 --> 01:18:48,400
into with the town and recorded the

1878
01:18:48,400 --> 01:18:50,960
county of Washington recorder office

1879
01:18:50,960 --> 01:18:52,960
stipulating the same.

1880
01:18:52,960 --> 01:19:02,709
>> Is there a revision to the motion?

1881
01:19:02,719 --> 01:19:09,189
Yes. Is that not your intent?

1882
01:19:09,199 --> 01:19:15,350
» Okay.

1883
01:19:15,360 --> 01:19:17,600
» I'm I'm willing to modify my

1884
01:19:17,600 --> 01:19:17,920
>> Okay.

1885
01:19:17,920 --> 01:19:21,440
>> motion to make them two or threebedroom.

1886
01:19:21,440 --> 01:19:22,960
>> That good?

1887
01:19:22,960 --> 01:19:26,080
>> I Okay. I

1888
01:19:26,080 --> 01:19:27,520
I'm just wondering if it's even

1889
01:19:27,520 --> 01:19:31,120
necessary to put that

1890
01:19:31,120 --> 01:19:31,760
>> strike

1891
01:19:31,760 --> 01:19:34,320
>> to strike it.

1892
01:19:34,320 --> 01:19:35,760
>> Yeah. And then that cannot be

1893
01:19:35,760 --> 01:19:38,640
>> because we will review that in the PD.

1894
01:19:38,640 --> 01:19:39,840
>> Okay, that's fine.

1895
01:19:39,840 --> 01:19:41,840
>> Okay.

1896
01:19:41,840 --> 01:19:44,159
So, so I'll strike the with a

1897
01:19:44,159 --> 01:19:46,880
two-bedroom home

1898
01:19:46,880 --> 01:19:50,000
and each housing two adults

1899
01:19:50,000 --> 01:19:51,679
>> but requiring qualified documents to

1900
01:19:51,679 --> 01:19:55,199
active employed adults will remain.

1901
01:19:55,199 --> 01:19:58,560
>> Okay. Is everybody clear on the motion?

1902
01:19:58,560 --> 01:19:59,600
Is there a second?

1903
01:19:59,600 --> 01:20:01,360
>> I will second the motion.

1904
01:20:01,360 --> 01:20:03,520
>> All in favor?

1905
01:20:03,520 --> 01:20:04,880
>> Have discussion but I don't have any

1906
01:20:04,880 --> 01:20:06,000
discussion but

1907
01:20:06,000 --> 01:20:10,239
>> Okay. Actually, I was going to but you included the development agreement

1908
01:20:10,239 --> 01:20:15,990
and that would have been my comment. So,

1909
01:20:16,000 --> 01:20:16,800
» okay.

1910
01:20:16,800 --> 01:20:18,239
>> Uh, so Terry I

1911
01:20:18,239 --> 01:20:19,280
>> Jennifer I

1912
01:20:19,280 --> 01:20:20,560
>> all I

1913
01:20:20,560 --> 01:20:30,709
>> um motion passes.

1914
01:20:30,719 --> 01:20:33,679
» Okay. Action item number three is a

1915
01:20:33,679 --> 01:20:39,350
public hearing ordinance 202609

1916
01:20:39,360 --> 01:20:42,000
amending chapter 10-21-8

1917
01:20:42,000 --> 01:20:44,400
of the town code relating to maintenance

1918
01:20:44,400 --> 01:20:46,640
and repair of non-complying buildings

1919
01:20:46,640 --> 01:20:48,880
and inserting a new section of code

1920
01:20:48,880 --> 01:20:51,440
dealing with involuntary removal of a

1921
01:20:51,440 --> 01:20:53,760
non-complying building.

1922
01:20:53,760 --> 01:20:56,880
Staff contact is Nile Connelly and Nile

1923
01:20:56,880 --> 01:20:59,199
will be presenting.

1924
01:20:59,199 --> 01:21:01,040
>> Thank you. Yes. So on to the third

1925
01:21:01,040 --> 01:21:03,679
public hearing of the evening. Uh this

1926
01:21:03,679 --> 01:21:06,400
relates to non-complying buildings.

1927
01:21:06,400 --> 01:21:12,800
Um so look if we look back to last fall

1928
01:21:12,800 --> 01:21:16,719
when this started just to recap on this

1929
01:21:16,719 --> 01:21:18,400
um

1930
01:21:18,400 --> 01:21:22,640
this topic arose uh after a question for

1931
01:21:22,640 --> 01:21:26,560
an or this question arose following a

1932
01:21:26,560 --> 01:21:29,760
request to the town council to interpret

1933
01:21:29,760 --> 01:21:32,239
uh a section of the code in the

1934
01:21:32,239 --> 01:21:34,960
non-complying in the non-complying

1935
01:21:34,960 --> 01:21:38,239
chapter of of the code. Um, and when the

1936
01:21:38,239 --> 01:21:40,080
town council made that interpretation,

1937
01:21:40,080 --> 01:21:41,760
at the same time, they instructed the

1938
01:21:41,760 --> 01:21:44,000
planning commission to look at this

1939
01:21:44,000 --> 01:21:46,800
issue um, and

1940
01:21:46,800 --> 01:21:48,480
look at the definition of ordinary

1941
01:21:48,480 --> 01:21:50,880
maintenance and repair and and and try

1942
01:21:50,880 --> 01:21:52,639
and kind of make this a little bit more

1943
01:21:52,639 --> 01:21:54,480
clear.

1944
01:21:54,480 --> 01:21:56,000
So, the commission has worked on

1945
01:21:56,000 --> 01:21:58,800
crafting ordinance language to uh to

1946
01:21:58,800 --> 01:22:00,800
address this over the last number of

1947
01:22:00,800 --> 01:22:05,040
months. Um the proposed language uh

1948
01:22:05,040 --> 01:22:09,199
clarifies or adds clarification to the

1949
01:22:09,199 --> 01:22:11,040
definition of ordinary maintenance and

1950
01:22:11,040 --> 01:22:14,880
repair. Uh the language also adds a new

1951
01:22:14,880 --> 01:22:17,840
section which addresses circumstances

1952
01:22:17,840 --> 01:22:22,080
that we've termed um involuntary

1953
01:22:22,080 --> 01:22:25,040
removal. So that's addressing situations

1954
01:22:25,040 --> 01:22:26,560
that maybe don't fall into the

1955
01:22:26,560 --> 01:22:30,960
catastrophe realm, but maybe exceed

1956
01:22:30,960 --> 01:22:35,600
ordinary maintenance and repairs. Um,

1957
01:22:35,600 --> 01:22:37,520
so this language, you're familiar with

1958
01:22:37,520 --> 01:22:38,960
it because it was brought to you last

1959
01:22:38,960 --> 01:22:41,760
month, but there's a few additions and

1960
01:22:41,760 --> 01:22:43,920
revisions have been made to it based on

1961
01:22:43,920 --> 01:22:47,760
the feedback at the last meeting. Um and

1962
01:22:47,760 --> 01:22:50,880
so for this evening, it's um over to you

1963
01:22:50,880 --> 01:22:53,199
to make a recommendation to the town

1964
01:22:53,199 --> 01:22:55,760
council on whether this should be

1965
01:22:55,760 --> 01:23:01,199
adopted or um or not.

1966
01:23:01,199 --> 01:23:04,310
>> Okay.

1967
01:23:04,320 --> 01:23:07,920
» Um so that is the applicant

1968
01:23:07,920 --> 01:23:10,480
presentation as well. Does the planning

1969
01:23:10,480 --> 01:23:16,070
commission have any questions?

1970
01:23:16,080 --> 01:23:18,960
I don't Are there any questions?

1971
01:23:18,960 --> 01:23:21,920
No. Okay. Any um questions from the

1972
01:23:21,920 --> 01:23:25,830
public?

1973
01:23:25,840 --> 01:23:28,239
» Is there a motion to open public

1974
01:23:28,239 --> 01:23:28,800
hearing?

1975
01:23:28,800 --> 01:23:31,040
>> I move that we open public hearing.

1976
01:23:31,040 --> 01:23:32,159
Second.

1977
01:23:32,159 --> 01:23:34,880
>> Motion by Paul, second by Terry. All in

1978
01:23:34,880 --> 01:23:35,520
favor?

1979
01:23:35,520 --> 01:23:36,400
>> Terry? I.

1980
01:23:36,400 --> 01:23:37,520
>> Jennifer I.

1981
01:23:37,520 --> 01:23:38,239
>> All I.

1982
01:23:38,239 --> 01:23:41,199
>> Motion passes.

1983
01:23:41,199 --> 01:23:44,320
Public comment period. We did receive a

1984
01:23:44,320 --> 01:23:46,800
letter and thank you for the input from

1985
01:23:46,800 --> 01:23:50,149
the public

1986
01:23:50,159 --> 01:23:54,639
and my comments. Um Oh, any are there

1987
01:23:54,639 --> 01:23:58,239
any other public comments?

1988
01:23:58,239 --> 01:24:00,880
>> I move we close the public hearing.

1989
01:24:00,880 --> 01:24:01,840
Second

1990
01:24:01,840 --> 01:24:04,560
>> motion by Paul, second by Terry. All in

1991
01:24:04,560 --> 01:24:05,280
favor?

1992
01:24:05,280 --> 01:24:06,239
>> Terry I.

1993
01:24:06,239 --> 01:24:07,199
>> Jennifer I.

1994
01:24:07,199 --> 01:24:08,080
>> Paul I.

1995
01:24:08,080 --> 01:24:11,990
>> Motion passes.

1996
01:24:12,000 --> 01:24:14,639
Is there any response

1997
01:24:14,639 --> 01:24:16,960
from the applicants?

1998
01:24:16,960 --> 01:24:18,480
Okay, now moving into planning

1999
01:24:18,480 --> 01:24:22,470
commission deliberation.

2000
01:24:22,480 --> 01:24:24,239
» So, we spent some time working on this

2001
01:24:24,239 --> 01:24:26,080
one. I think we're we've got what we're

2002
01:24:26,080 --> 01:24:28,320
looking for and I'm pretty happy with

2003
01:24:28,320 --> 01:24:29,120
where we're at.

2004
01:24:29,120 --> 01:24:33,600
>> I agree too. We discussed this

2005
01:24:33,600 --> 01:24:36,560
very thoroughly and I feel like the

2006
01:24:36,560 --> 01:24:38,960
added language has helped clarified

2007
01:24:38,960 --> 01:24:42,400
ordinary maintenance repair and also

2008
01:24:42,400 --> 01:24:45,440
addresses catastrophic events within

2009
01:24:45,440 --> 01:24:47,840
that.

2010
01:24:47,840 --> 01:24:50,639
So I'm I feel really good with after all

2011
01:24:50,639 --> 01:24:58,629
of our long discussions where we are at.

2012
01:24:58,639 --> 01:25:01,199
» Is there a motion?

2013
01:25:01,199 --> 01:25:03,600
>> Me take this one. Go for it. The last

2014
01:25:03,600 --> 01:25:07,679
one. Okay. I'll make motion that the uh

2015
01:25:07,679 --> 01:25:09,199
planning commission recommends the

2016
01:25:09,199 --> 01:25:12,000
approval of the proposed changes to

2017
01:25:12,000 --> 01:25:15,199
chapter 10218

2018
01:25:15,199 --> 01:25:17,840
and the insertion of a new paragraph

2019
01:25:17,840 --> 01:25:19,679
10-21-9

2020
01:25:19,679 --> 01:25:22,400
into the town code as discussed at the

2021
01:25:22,400 --> 01:25:25,040
planning commission meeting on April 15,

2022
01:25:25,040 --> 01:25:26,560
2026.

2023
01:25:26,560 --> 01:25:28,320
This motion is based on the following

2024
01:25:28,320 --> 01:25:30,639
findings. This ordinance revision

2025
01:25:30,639 --> 01:25:32,880
clarifies ambiguities in the

2026
01:25:32,880 --> 01:25:34,800
requirements related to maintenance,

2027
01:25:34,800 --> 01:25:37,520
repair, alteration, and improvements of

2028
01:25:37,520 --> 01:25:41,199
non-complying buildings and structures.

2029
01:25:41,199 --> 01:25:43,280
This mainten this ordinance revision

2030
01:25:43,280 --> 01:25:45,600
also makes allowances for circumstances

2031
01:25:45,600 --> 01:25:48,480
where a non-compliant building or

2032
01:25:48,480 --> 01:25:51,120
structure has declined over time rather

2033
01:25:51,120 --> 01:25:53,679
than by a catastrophic event and

2034
01:25:53,679 --> 01:25:56,320
requires extensive improvement beyond

2035
01:25:56,320 --> 01:25:58,320
the definition of ordinary maintenance

2036
01:25:58,320 --> 01:26:00,960
and repair. It defines the requirements

2037
01:26:00,960 --> 01:26:03,679
and conditions that must be met to allow

2038
01:26:03,679 --> 01:26:06,560
rebuilding any non-compliant aspects of

2039
01:26:06,560 --> 01:26:12,310
the previous structure.

2040
01:26:12,320 --> 01:26:13,679
Is there a second?

2041
01:26:13,679 --> 01:26:15,360
>> Second.

2042
01:26:15,360 --> 01:26:19,030
>> Is there any discussion?

2043
01:26:19,040 --> 01:26:22,000
» Motion by Terry. Second by Paul. All in

2044
01:26:22,000 --> 01:26:23,120
favor?

2045
01:26:23,120 --> 01:26:23,920
>> Terry? I

2046
01:26:23,920 --> 01:26:24,960
>> Jennifer I.

2047
01:26:24,960 --> 01:26:26,000
>> All I.

2048
01:26:26,000 --> 01:26:29,669
>> Motion passes.

2049
01:26:29,679 --> 01:26:31,280
» You can.

2050
01:26:31,280 --> 01:26:34,159
>> I'm sorry. I meant you too.

2051
01:26:34,159 --> 01:26:36,480
I'll ask you next time.

2052
01:26:36,480 --> 01:26:39,679
Moving on to item four, public hearing

2053
01:26:39,679 --> 01:26:43,520
regarding ordinance 2026-10

2054
01:26:43,520 --> 01:26:47,280
amending chapter 10-21 of the town code

2055
01:26:47,280 --> 01:26:49,440
relating to renovation and redevelopment

2056
01:26:49,440 --> 01:26:51,280
of non-complying buildings in the

2057
01:26:51,280 --> 01:26:53,840
commercial zones. Staff contact is Nyall

2058
01:26:53,840 --> 01:26:57,040
Connelly and Nyall will be presenting.

2059
01:26:57,040 --> 01:27:00,480
>> Thank you. So another public hearing and

2060
01:27:00,480 --> 01:27:02,719
uh this also relates to non-complying

2061
01:27:02,719 --> 01:27:05,600
buildings but specifically this is

2062
01:27:05,600 --> 01:27:07,679
looking at non-complying buildings in

2063
01:27:07,679 --> 01:27:09,760
the central commercial and village

2064
01:27:09,760 --> 01:27:12,080
commercial zones.

2065
01:27:12,080 --> 01:27:15,520
Um the intention of these amendments is

2066
01:27:15,520 --> 01:27:18,960
to enable the downtown to retain its

2067
01:27:18,960 --> 01:27:23,440
vitality and its special character um

2068
01:27:23,440 --> 01:27:25,280
while recognizing that part of its

2069
01:27:25,280 --> 01:27:28,080
special character includes a lot of

2070
01:27:28,080 --> 01:27:32,320
non-conforming buildings. um

2071
01:27:32,320 --> 01:27:36,239
at the same time um not wanting to

2072
01:27:36,239 --> 01:27:38,639
discard development standards that have

2073
01:27:38,639 --> 01:27:40,560
been thoughtfully crafted over many

2074
01:27:40,560 --> 01:27:43,360
years. And so that that was kind of the

2075
01:27:43,360 --> 01:27:46,960
intention of these revisions.

2076
01:27:46,960 --> 01:27:49,040
Uh the proposed language would allow

2077
01:27:49,040 --> 01:27:52,000
reconstruction of buildings within those

2078
01:27:52,000 --> 01:27:54,480
zones which are non-compliant with

2079
01:27:54,480 --> 01:27:56,800
minimum setbacks and maximum building

2080
01:27:56,800 --> 01:27:59,840
sizes so long as the properties are

2081
01:27:59,840 --> 01:28:03,120
brought into compliance with all other

2082
01:28:03,120 --> 01:28:07,760
uh town ordinances that apply.

2083
01:28:07,760 --> 01:28:10,639
Uh the language also addresses uh

2084
01:28:10,639 --> 01:28:14,960
nonconforming uses um which may be

2085
01:28:14,960 --> 01:28:17,679
paused during construction.

2086
01:28:17,679 --> 01:28:19,280
Um

2087
01:28:19,280 --> 01:28:22,960
so the as before the commission has has

2088
01:28:22,960 --> 01:28:25,600
seen this language before um but some

2089
01:28:25,600 --> 01:28:28,320
additions and revisions have been made

2090
01:28:28,320 --> 01:28:30,480
um following your direction at the last

2091
01:28:30,480 --> 01:28:33,280
meeting. Um so I'd be happy to answer

2092
01:28:33,280 --> 01:28:37,199
any questions that you have.

2093
01:28:37,199 --> 01:28:39,120
Does the planning commission have any

2094
01:28:39,120 --> 01:28:44,149
questions for Nile?

2095
01:28:44,159 --> 01:28:45,840
» I I I guess I have a question that's

2096
01:28:45,840 --> 01:28:47,920
kind of for all of us.

2097
01:28:47,920 --> 01:28:50,320
>> At one point we had discussed that they

2098
01:28:50,320 --> 01:28:53,280
would be allowed to do this once. Is

2099
01:28:53,280 --> 01:28:54,080
that still in

2100
01:28:54,080 --> 01:28:56,159
>> it says that in there? Okay. I just

2101
01:28:56,159 --> 01:28:57,120
missed that. Okay.

2102
01:28:57,120 --> 01:28:58,800
>> Point G.

2103
01:28:58,800 --> 01:28:59,360
>> Yeah.

2104
01:28:59,360 --> 01:29:04,470
>> They get one pass at this. Yeah. Okay.

2105
01:29:04,480 --> 01:29:07,120
» So given there are no

2106
01:29:07,120 --> 01:29:09,440
Public commentary ends here.

2107
01:29:09,440 --> 01:29:11,760
>> There are no

2108
01:29:11,760 --> 01:29:13,280
>> I think we still have a public hearing.

2109
01:29:13,280 --> 01:29:15,280
>> We still need to do a public hearing.

2110
01:29:15,280 --> 01:29:17,360
>> Yeah. Motion to open public hearing.

2111
01:29:17,360 --> 01:29:18,880
>> Make a motion to open public hearing.

2112
01:29:18,880 --> 01:29:19,760
>> I already did that.

2113
01:29:19,760 --> 01:29:21,520
>> Oh, you did. I will I will second the

2114
01:29:21,520 --> 01:29:22,400
motion. Sorry.

2115
01:29:22,400 --> 01:29:24,880
>> Motion by Paul, second by Terry. All in

2116
01:29:24,880 --> 01:29:25,600
favor?

2117
01:29:25,600 --> 01:29:26,480
>> Terry? I.

2118
01:29:26,480 --> 01:29:27,440
>> Jennifer I.

2119
01:29:27,440 --> 01:29:29,360
>> Paul. I

2120
01:29:29,360 --> 01:29:32,639
>> um all in motion passes.

2121
01:29:32,639 --> 01:29:34,080
>> Make a motion to close the public

2122
01:29:34,080 --> 01:29:35,920
hearing.

2123
01:29:35,920 --> 01:29:38,000
Second given that there's nobody here.

2124
01:29:38,000 --> 01:29:40,880
>> Motion by Terry, second by Paul. All in

2125
01:29:40,880 --> 01:29:41,600
favor?

2126
01:29:41,600 --> 01:29:42,400
>> Terry I.

2127
01:29:42,400 --> 01:29:43,360
>> Jennifer I.

2128
01:29:43,360 --> 01:29:44,080
>> Paul I.

2129
01:29:44,080 --> 01:29:47,040
>> Motion passes

2130
01:29:47,040 --> 01:29:49,360
and we can move into planning commission

2131
01:29:49,360 --> 01:29:51,760
deliberation.

2132
01:29:51,760 --> 01:29:53,520
>> I think this has been well deliberated

2133
01:29:53,520 --> 01:29:55,679
and well thought out and carefully

2134
01:29:55,679 --> 01:29:57,920
crafted and it looks pretty good.

2135
01:29:57,920 --> 01:29:59,440
>> We did a pretty good job. Yeah,

2136
01:29:59,440 --> 01:30:02,000
>> I agree. We did spend a lot of time

2137
01:30:02,000 --> 01:30:07,120
again thoroughly going over every point

2138
01:30:07,120 --> 01:30:10,159
and I think we

2139
01:30:10,159 --> 01:30:12,719
the changes effectively detail the

2140
01:30:12,719 --> 01:30:15,120
conditions of non-compliant buildings

2141
01:30:15,120 --> 01:30:18,159
and the requirements for compliance with

2142
01:30:18,159 --> 01:30:20,880
all other applicable land use

2143
01:30:20,880 --> 01:30:23,199
regulations. And we I think we did a

2144
01:30:23,199 --> 01:30:26,480
really good job in trying to balance

2145
01:30:26,480 --> 01:30:28,560
um

2146
01:30:28,560 --> 01:30:31,280
the the non-compliance part with um

2147
01:30:31,280 --> 01:30:36,159
keeping in mind the other current um

2148
01:30:36,159 --> 01:30:39,040
regulations that would need to be

2149
01:30:39,040 --> 01:30:41,360
required

2150
01:30:41,360 --> 01:30:43,040
which is reflected in all of the

2151
01:30:43,040 --> 01:30:45,840
language. So I feel really good and

2152
01:30:45,840 --> 01:30:50,159
comfortable with where it's at.

2153
01:30:50,159 --> 01:30:51,199
It's my turn.

2154
01:30:51,199 --> 01:30:52,000
>> Your turn.

2155
01:30:52,000 --> 01:30:54,719
>> I move that the planning commission

2156
01:30:54,719 --> 01:30:57,440
recommend approval of the proposed

2157
01:30:57,440 --> 01:31:00,000
changes to 10 chapter 1021 by insertion

2158
01:31:00,000 --> 01:31:02,880
of new paragraph chapter 102110

2159
01:31:02,880 --> 01:31:05,520
into the town code as discussed at the

2160
01:31:05,520 --> 01:31:08,719
commission meeting on April 15, 2026.

2161
01:31:08,719 --> 01:31:10,400
This motion is based on the following

2162
01:31:10,400 --> 01:31:14,239
findings. Uh it supports the general

2163
01:31:14,239 --> 01:31:16,320
plan chapter 1 land use and town

2164
01:31:16,320 --> 01:31:18,400
appearance. [snorts] Sub goal A,

2165
01:31:18,400 --> 01:31:20,639
maintain Springdale's identity as a

2166
01:31:20,639 --> 01:31:23,760
unique village with a spectacular scenic

2167
01:31:23,760 --> 01:31:25,199
setting and preserve the town's

2168
01:31:25,199 --> 01:31:27,199
distinctive and small community feel and

2169
01:31:27,199 --> 01:31:30,560
apparent atmosphere. And sub goal B to

2170
01:31:30,560 --> 01:31:32,320
ensure new development is compatible

2171
01:31:32,320 --> 01:31:34,400
with the town setting at the entrance

2172
01:31:34,400 --> 01:31:36,800
design national park consistent with the

2173
01:31:36,800 --> 01:31:38,639
town's architectural heritage and

2174
01:31:38,639 --> 01:31:40,400
complements the existing development in

2175
01:31:40,400 --> 01:31:44,229
the area.

2176
01:31:44,239 --> 01:31:48,390
That's it. I'll second.

2177
01:31:48,400 --> 01:31:51,440
» Okay. Motion by Paul, second by Terry.

2178
01:31:51,440 --> 01:31:52,719
All in favor?

2179
01:31:52,719 --> 01:31:53,600
>> Terry? I.

2180
01:31:53,600 --> 01:31:54,800
>> Jennifer I.

2181
01:31:54,800 --> 01:31:55,760
>> All I.

2182
01:31:55,760 --> 01:32:02,550
>> Motion passes.

2183
01:32:02,560 --> 01:32:04,960
» Move we adjourn.

2184
01:32:04,960 --> 01:32:05,360
>> There.

2185
01:32:05,360 --> 01:32:06,400
>> Second

2186
01:32:06,400 --> 01:32:09,440
>> motion by Paul, second by Terry. All in

2187
01:32:09,440 --> 01:32:10,320
favor?

2188
01:32:10,320 --> 01:32:11,199
>> Terry. I.

2189
01:32:11,199 --> 01:32:12,320
>> Jennifer I.

2190
01:32:12,320 --> 01:32:16,920
>> All I. Meeting is adjourned.