[0:44] Yeah.
[0:56] It's 5:00 p. am and we're at the Canyon
[0:58] Community Center for the June 3rd
[1:00] meeting of the Springdale Planning
[1:02] Commission. From the T town, we have Tom
[1:05] Dancy, Nile Connelly, and April Ratitz.
[1:08] On the dis we have Matt Frink, Zion
[1:11] National Park representative, Terry
[1:13] Krishki, myself, Jennifer McCulla, Paul
[1:16] Zimmerman, Koshbati, and Melissa Labour,
[1:20] Rich Swanson, and Tom Kinston are not
[1:23] able to make it tonight. Melissa and
[1:26] Kosh, I'd like to ask you to vote. Thank
[1:29] you. And is there a motion to approve
[1:32] tonight's agenda?
[1:34] >> I move we approve tonight's agenda.
[1:37] >> Second.
[1:38] >> Motion by Paul. Second by Terry. All in
[1:41] favor?
[1:42] >> Terry I.
[1:43] >> Jennifer I.
[1:44] >> Paul I.
[1:45] >> Tash I.
[1:45] >> Melissa I.
[1:46] >> Motion passes. Are there any general
[1:49] announcements?
[1:54] No announcements tonight. Any
[1:56] declarations of conflict of interest.
[2:01] Okay. For tonight's agenda, we have one
[2:04] action item, which is a public hearing.
[2:08] Mr. Luke Wilson requests design
[2:10] development review for the approval of
[2:13] an expansion to the parking lot at 50
[2:15] Zion Park Boulevard. The staff contact
[2:18] is Nyall Connelly. We will follow public
[2:21] meeting rules of order and procedures.
[2:24] Please be sure to have signed into the
[2:26] meeting on the form in the back if you
[2:28] intend to speak. And please keep in mind
[2:31] that each public comment is limited to
[2:33] three minutes. And we will start with an
[2:36] intro from Nyall.
[2:38] >> Thank you.
[2:40] So as you indicated, uh we have a public
[2:43] hearing. This item is a public hearing.
[2:46] Um Mr. Luke Wilson has applied for
[2:48] design development review uh for an
[2:51] expansion to his parking lot at 50 Zion
[2:54] Park Boulevard. Uh this is a
[2:56] retrospective application uh meaning
[2:59] that the spaces have already been con
[3:01] constructed and uh Mr. Wilson wishes to
[3:04] come into compliance now with the town's
[3:07] ordinances.
[3:08] Um the expansion involves 15 additional
[3:13] spaces
[3:15] um kind of as indicated there. Um
[3:19] it also includes a landscape seating
[3:21] area which is described on the plans as
[3:25] a public lounge and landscape area.
[3:29] Um the parking lot was originally
[3:33] developed in 2016 and in that in the
[3:37] time between then and now the town's
[3:40] standards on parking lots have changed.
[3:42] So there are some new standards that the
[3:45] applicant needs to comply with. Um so
[3:49] those include
[3:50] um integration with a commercial use. Um
[3:55] there's some specific landscape
[3:57] requirements that that apply. Um there's
[4:01] also trash and recycling facilities
[4:04] required and also restrooms. Um so the
[4:08] commission should review the proposal to
[4:12] uh make a determination on whether those
[4:14] points have been um met or not. Um
[4:20] the applicant proposes a a food truck or
[4:23] coffee truck to satisfy the commercial
[4:25] requirement. Um and there's some
[4:28] discussion on the the other points
[4:30] within the staff report as well. Um I'd
[4:34] be happy to answer any questions from
[4:36] the commission.
[4:38] >> Um I believe in following um order of
[4:42] public hearing um first if there's a
[4:44] presentation from the applicant.
[4:48] Would you like to Yeah, sure.
[4:51] >> Yes. Yes.
[4:52] >> And thank you for being here. I realize
[4:54] this is not a normal meeting. So I'm
[4:56] Luke Wilson. Um
[5:00] I bought that parking lot about a year
[5:02] ago from Janet Micah. Everybody knows
[5:04] about about the parking lot already. Um,
[5:07] when I bought it, I bought and I'm not
[5:09] going to try to make a long story, but I bought the two homes across from my
[5:12] other parking lot as well at the same
[5:14] time. The two little homes across from
[5:16] my coffee shop just down the road. And I
[5:19] graded and cleaned up the property
[5:21] there, built rock walls and landscaped
[5:23] it and fixed up those little homes. You
[5:24] might know which ones I mean on the
[5:25] corner of Hummingbird. And then I jumped
[5:27] to this property. I did the same thing.
[5:29] I graded and cleaned this up and I I
[5:30] stayed outside of the 30%
[5:33] Um, as I started doing and it and when I
[5:35] was doing the homes, I was everyone was
[5:37] thanking me and and I and so I didn't
[5:40] think that um this would be as delicate
[5:43] as it was. As I was grading this, Tom
[5:45] kept and he said, "Hey, hey, hey, hey,
[5:46] wait, wait, wait. You don't have this is
[5:49] delicate." And so we he stopped me. We
[5:52] stopped right then. he had me get about
[5:55] uh you know engineering to the nth
[5:57] degree about where the slope was the 30%
[5:59] grading and put up a fence and all of
[6:01] that's appropriate and I totally
[6:02] understand why. So I have a grading
[6:04] permit. I followed it to the inch uh
[6:06] that's been approved. Um I built a rock
[6:09] wall around it and um
[6:13] added those spaces. I didn't know about
[6:15] the new rule with the bathroom and the
[6:17] recycling and the business. I have the
[6:19] other parking lot and I I I didn't know
[6:22] about that rule at the time that I did
[6:24] this. So, in my mind, it was it was out
[6:27] of the 30% grading. It was um I had a
[6:31] legal permit to grade. I I did talk to
[6:33] Tom to be quite candid about doing more
[6:35] landscaping in the back than I did. I
[6:37] didn't think I could fit those spots. I
[6:38] thought I'd get three or four or five,
[6:39] but it seemed like it worked to put them
[6:41] up. And I I paved higher than I talked
[6:43] to him about. And then then he he called
[6:45] and said, "You know, this is this needs
[6:48] attention." So then, so then for the
[6:49] last few months, we've been kind of
[6:50] trying to get on the on the schedule
[6:52] here. Um, I have no intention of not
[6:55] complying. As I understand, the three
[6:58] things that that come to mind here are
[7:00] the head-to-head parking.
[7:02] In my mind, that isn't head-to-head
[7:05] parking because there's about an 8ft
[7:07] vertical difference between the lower
[7:08] and the upper level, but we can call it
[7:10] head-to-head parking.
[7:12] um planters on the ends of any rows of
[7:14] parking,
[7:16] uh the bathroom, and then the uh the
[7:18] commercial use. Um
[7:22] not trying to rat out anyone, but across
[7:26] the street 100 yards, there's
[7:28] head-to-head parking in their entire
[7:29] parking lot. As I understand, that rule
[7:31] came about in '08. I looked up the code.
[7:35] That parking lot was added 41 stalls in
[7:38] 2019 or 2020 per the geo per per the
[7:42] county website that I could see as is on
[7:45] the high resolution map. I don't have
[7:47] any problem with it. I it's it's a very
[7:49] good parking lots well used, but I know
[7:51] they have head-to-head parking the
[7:52] entire thing. Um there's countless
[7:55] parking lots in town that don't have
[7:56] planters on the ends, including right
[7:58] here. And and I'm not again trying to
[8:00] like throw that out. I'm not saying I
[8:02] don't want to comply. I'm happy to
[8:03] comply, but I see these little things
[8:05] all over and and I could give you many
[8:08] other examples in town of of this. U I
[8:10] think those are easy things to deal
[8:12] with. The landscaping, the head-to-head
[8:14] parking, there's solutions to both of
[8:16] those. Um I had I had talked about the
[8:21] bathroom. Uh I didn't actually know
[8:23] there was no sewer. The town doesn't
[8:24] have sewer in the road there.
[8:27] It's about 550 ft away in front of
[8:29] subway and 8 feet higher than I am. And
[8:33] that's probably why there's no sewer
[8:34] because it's it's too high for for me to
[8:38] use it. If you include the 12 12 and a
[8:40] half ft of fall that it would take over
[8:42] 500 feet to make it legal sewer use,
[8:43] it's like 22 feet of difference there.
[8:45] It it wouldn't work. You'd have to go
[8:46] through the landside, whatever. So, I
[8:49] have no issue doing any other thing uh
[8:51] like a septic system or a sealed tank or
[8:54] a self-contained bathroom that's
[8:56] screened so no one can see it like they
[8:57] use in the park. Um I don't have any
[8:59] problem with any of those, but I I
[9:01] realized that until there is sewer in
[9:03] the road, I can't just
[9:05] build a bathroom and have because
[9:06] there's no sewer. So, in my mind and
[9:09] after talking to a few council members
[9:11] about the sensitivity of sewer or
[9:14] including a septic field in that
[9:18] property, um it seemed the the most
[9:21] logical to do kind of an upscale
[9:22] self-contained unit. They're expensive
[9:24] because you have to service them every
[9:25] week and you have to have them cleaned
[9:27] and you have to have them stocked and
[9:28] you have to you have to build a screen
[9:30] around it and stuff. It's not ideal, but
[9:31] it it does meet the requirement as I
[9:34] read the code. And then lastly, um, a
[9:38] sewerless business, the businesses that
[9:40] I could think of that would I feel like
[9:42] work, um, would be either, uh, there's
[9:45] no power there either, but ebikes,
[9:48] um, or coffee. Everybody at my other
[9:51] coffee shop is out the door, 20 people
[9:53] deep. Everybody's trying to get their
[9:54] coffee. And I thought surely enough
[9:56] people would want some coffee that that a mobile, like an upscale nice
[9:59] mobile coffee business there would work.
[10:01] Again, no sewer. I can't hook into
[10:03] anything. So, I'm trying to to provide
[10:06] what isn't being provided
[10:09] and still try to meet the ordinance. And
[10:11] as I read the ordinance, I think both of
[10:12] those things comply. Um, future
[10:15] business, I would like to do some
[10:16] ebikes. I've spoken with Kyla and Tai
[10:18] Topam often about the nuances of ebikes
[10:21] traveling through town at high speeds,
[10:22] not stopping at the crosswalks,
[10:24] whatever. I think this is a great
[10:25] location because it's right at the
[10:26] entrance of the park that doesn't need
[10:28] sewer either. and if I could I could do
[10:31] something at the back of the parking lot
[10:32] with a shade structure like my other
[10:33] ebike business and have some bikes there
[10:35] as well. But I have not proposed that on
[10:36] this one for this for this meeting and
[10:38] for this season which is now underway.
[10:41] Um
[10:43] I I think those things that I've
[10:44] mentioned meet the ordinance. And so I I
[10:48] would also like to point out a couple of
[10:49] things that I did. I I I'm not trying to
[10:53] cause an issue in in in in cleaning up
[10:56] this parking lot and and adding the
[10:58] spaces in the back. I put in 2,000
[11:01] square feet of sidewalk for the town, uh
[11:04] 400 lineal feet, 5t wide, a bridge over
[11:07] the uh historic headgate that wasn't to
[11:09] be touched or deconstructed. I
[11:10] landscaped the planters off the SR9. I
[11:14] don't need water on my parking lot, but
[11:15] I pay for it because there's those
[11:17] planters and I water them. And I pay the
[11:18] bill to water those planters. I don't
[11:20] know. I think that's my job. I'm not
[11:21] sure, but I like how they look, so we do
[11:23] that. Um, I'm trying to create a public
[11:25] lounge above the very top right where
[11:29] people can sit down, have lunch. I would
[11:32] bolt down some aderondac chairs there.
[11:34] Um, have some little tables and things
[11:36] so they can't be blown around in the
[11:37] wind. Put a safety railing up there. The
[11:40] view is beautiful from there. And I feel
[11:41] like they're they're currently on that
[11:43] parking lot is nowhere for a family to
[11:44] like sit down and eat their lunch or
[11:46] their sandwich or or whatever. And I
[11:48] thought that would be kind of a nice
[11:49] thing that that they could do is maybe
[11:51] as they're waiting to meet their friends
[11:53] or whatever. So that's where it went.
[11:56] That's how I got where I am today. And
[11:58] um I understand the Nile sent me the
[12:02] email that shows the things that have
[12:03] been added to the code that I don't
[12:04] meet. And so I'm trying to meet them and
[12:06] not trying to not be compliant. So does
[12:08] anybody have any questions for me?
[12:10] Yeah. So, at this time, planning
[12:12] commission can ask questions to the
[12:13] staff or the applicant.
[12:19] » Um, I'll start with a question.
[12:22] Something that didn't come up in this
[12:24] report and perhaps hasn't been mentioned
[12:27] to you. Um, there is an ordinance 10237.
[12:33] Acute angle parking shall be designed
[12:36] for one-way traffic only.
[12:38] So you have some acute angle parking at
[12:41] the top that is not set up for one-way
[12:45] traffic.
[12:47] >> Um
[12:48] so uh
[12:51] would would you be I I mean what would
[12:54] you think in terms of having to redesign
[12:57] that in some way either? I
[12:59] >> I would be happy to and and I'm I I I
[13:01] read that as well. Um I'd be happy to.
[13:05] That was me with a tape measure and my
[13:07] painter and just this fits, this works,
[13:09] whatever. I'm sure I could probably
[13:10] reconfigure that to where it's not. Is
[13:12] that a cute angle? Is that where they're
[13:14] twisted? The top.
[13:15] >> That's Yeah, that's where they're not
[13:16] 90°.
[13:17] >> Yeah, I could.
[13:18] >> So, you got four or five spaces there.
[13:20] >> And I'm sure from from what I can see is
[13:22] I could carry the 90° spaces a little
[13:24] farther and maybe just stop at the acute
[13:26] angle ones at the top or turn those 90
[13:28] degrees and have them go the other way.
[13:29] You know what I mean?
[13:30] >> Facing up the hill,
[13:32] >> right? But but yeah, I'm not
[13:34] >> there multiple options, but I think that
[13:36] would be one of the requirements we had
[13:38] which didn't come up in the
[13:40] >> Yeah, and I and as I as when NA pointed
[13:43] out some of the codes, I really dug into
[13:45] those codes and I actually read that.
[13:46] So, but I had already painted it. So,
[13:49] anyway,
[13:51] >> do you have the ability to to
[13:54] continue the drive space out through I
[13:56] mean, obviously it would impact the
[13:58] public lounge area, but you know, can it
[14:00] go I don't know what the grade's like
[14:01] right there. I could easily I mean the
[14:03] grades might maybe 10 degrees and I
[14:05] could probably circulate it back down
[14:07] around. I think the town wouldn't like
[14:08] that. It's a lot of it's a lot of
[14:09] excavation and stuff and I and it would
[14:11] do away with the public lounge area.
[14:13] Really to me the only the only problem
[14:15] is that um you know I I think the
[14:18] easiest solution would be to say make
[14:19] those spaces work
[14:22] flip the angle on them or whatever or or again maybe two of them this way.
[14:29] You know I don't know if that makes
[14:30] sense.
[14:31] >> I would just lose some spaces.
[14:34] >> They could I believe
[14:35] >> I would rather I would rather do that
[14:36] than make a mess.
[14:39] >> It could be reconfigured.
[14:41] >> Yeah. Like you say, you might lose a
[14:42] space or two in the process.
[14:44] >> Yeah, I can do compact spaces there
[14:46] actually and get 90 degrees.
[14:48] >> I can do compact car only spaces and
[14:50] there's plent most of the cars that park
[14:52] there are compact. I even thought at the
[14:54] bottom putting compact only beyond this
[14:56] point, you know, to where it's easier to
[14:57] turn around for them. Yeah.
[15:03] » Yeah. Um, and just, you know, especially
[15:06] those angled ones would have to back
[15:07] quite a ways back down to get to be able
[15:10] to go forward again. So, it would be
[15:11] good to have them be able to,
[15:13] >> you know, right there and not
[15:16] >> another solution, not not to like talk
[15:18] through this too much. I could just do
[15:21] parallel.
[15:22] >> Do you know what I mean? Like they have
[15:24] at the entrance of the park
[15:25] >> where it's not 45, it's actually
[15:29] use
[15:33] Street parking would be.
[15:33] >> Yeah, like street parking. That would
[15:35] >> Yeah, there's lots of ways that I
[15:36] >> There's options. Yeah.
[15:36] >> Yeah.
[15:39] >> I have a question um probably for the
[15:41] staff and um for you. Um is my
[15:46] understanding is is renting out the
[15:49] space to a coffee van or is it in
[15:52] associated with your coffee business at
[15:53] all or your plan is to rent the space
[15:57] for some to someone else?
[15:59] >> Yes, I would be I would be
[16:03] owning that.
[16:05] >> Okay. So, there would be a business
[16:08] there, but it's not your
[16:10] >> It is mine.
[16:11] >> Oh, okay.
[16:12] >> Yeah. I Yeah, I have an operator for it.
[16:15] It's somebody that's worked one of my
[16:16] other coffee stations that would run it
[16:18] and I would just set up
[16:20] >> Okay.
[16:20] >> I don't know if you guys have seen like
[16:21] in Hurricane Grit and Grind coffee. It's
[16:24] nice black trailer. Everybody loves
[16:25] their coffee. Something really clean
[16:26] that looks nice like that. methods and I
[16:29] would actually probably pay for about 30
[16:31] grand I can pop power under the road
[16:32] there's a big transformer across the
[16:34] street so there's not a generator
[16:35] required or anything you know so there's
[16:38] power there's no sewer but there is
[16:39] power that they could operate quietly
[16:42] >> okay thank you I was asking um in terms
[16:45] of stability of a business staying is
[16:47] what I was asking
[16:48] >> yeah
[16:50] um to to leak a little bit um Tom and
[16:54] Nile heard me say this in a couple of
[16:56] meetings that we had
[16:58] I don't want a trailer there. I would
[17:00] rather have a nice well-designed
[17:03] small kiosk, maybe two stalls like my
[17:07] other coffee shop. It's that only takes
[17:08] two or three stalls and it does very
[17:10] well
[17:11] for the season for now. For what we're
[17:13] up against right now, I don't want to
[17:16] slap something architecturally together
[17:18] and stick it up there. I thought if we
[17:20] had a nice mobile coffee business for
[17:22] now, that would work. And then in the
[17:23] offseason, I plan to do more. I just
[17:25] don't have it well thought out.
[17:28] I have to hunt down a guy named Bert
[17:30] Cartwright to help me with that and he's
[17:32] unavailable right now. So,
[17:35] >> but yeah, my long-term plan wouldn't be
[17:37] to even keep that, but I would own it.
[17:39] Yeah.
[17:43] » Come back another time for that. Yeah,
[17:45] >> sure.
[17:49] How high you mentioned uh the the
[17:52] head-to-head parking wall, so to speak.
[17:55] >> It fades. It goes from like four feet to
[17:57] about nine.
[17:59] >> Okay.
[18:00] >> At the on the high side, it's about
[18:01] nine. And on the low side, it's about
[18:02] four.
[18:07] And And
[18:08] >> then you're going to have a 42 inch
[18:09] guard rail above that.
[18:10] >> Yeah. 42inch guardrail.
[18:13] Yep.
[18:16] And again, if we if need be, I could
[18:18] flip the spaces to the back. I don't
[18:20] like that as well, backing up towards a
[18:22] railing and the and the wall. It's not
[18:24] really a safety issue, but I just think
[18:26] it's better as it is, but if need be,
[18:29] uh, even in Nell's report, it says they
[18:30] could be flipped to accommodate a mo
[18:32] strip. However, it wouldn't need a mo
[18:33] strip because it would no longer be
[18:35] headto head. Do you know what I mean? I
[18:36] would just flip them to the back.
[18:39] Uh, in the end, the town gets the same
[18:41] thing. There are cars parked there.
[18:44] If they allow me to consider that wall,
[18:46] and the code doesn't read horizontally
[18:47] or vertically, but if they allow me to
[18:49] green up that wall, like a green green
[18:51] wall that's watered well with hanging
[18:52] vines and plants and something pretty,
[18:54] you're not going to be able to tell if
[18:55] the cars are on the front or the back,
[18:56] but from the town's pers perspective, if
[18:58] they allow it to stay as it is, that
[19:00] wall would be very pretty, I think. You
[19:02] know what I mean?
[19:08] But I think either way that that that
[19:09] issue can go away
[19:12] one way or the other.
[19:14] So, on the drawing in your proposal, um
[19:18] there's a small um area in the middle
[19:22] that looks like it's uh going to be
[19:24] landscaped.
[19:26] >> Yeah. Yeah.
[19:29] On the bottom.
[19:32] Yes. That
[19:33] >> right right up there in that little
[19:34] circle right above the pointer.
[19:36] >> Yes. 80 square feet minimum. Two three
[19:38] plants, one tree.
[19:41] >> That would be one end.
[19:42] >> Uhhuh. one end of the additional space
[19:45] up at the top. There's that whole lounge
[19:47] area would be
[19:48] >> would be the other end.
[19:49] >> Yeah, would be the other end.
[19:58] And I didn't finish that because we kind
[20:01] of got to the point where they said,
[20:03] "Hey, stop. We need to we need to work."
[20:06] >> I think it's better to
[20:06] >> So I don't even think I finished my rock
[20:09] wall at the very top. I haven't clear.
[20:11] Anyway,
[20:13] yeah.
[20:22] Are there other questions from the
[20:23] planning commission to either Mr. Wilson
[20:26] or the staff
[20:36] and I think you mentioned about the
[20:38] drainage,
[20:40] correct? Can Yeah.
[20:47] » Okay. At this time, um, is there a
[20:50] motion to open public hearing?
[20:52] >> Move that we open the public hearing.
[20:56] >> Second.
[20:57] >> Motion by Paul, second by Terry. All in
[20:59] favor?
[21:00] >> Terry? I.
[21:01] >> Jennifer I.
[21:02] >> Paul. I. Hash.
[21:03] >> I. I.
[21:05] >> Motion passes.
[21:07] Uh, is there any public comments at this
[21:09] time?
[21:17] Hi, guilt keepfir
[21:20] um wasn't sure quite how to approach
[21:23] this but um
[21:26] I also am building already have built a
[21:30] parking lot and I want to uh get
[21:33] approval tonight for putting ebikes in a
[21:36] coffee shop on it. So, if you can also
[21:39] consider that with uh tonight's agenda.
[21:43] Um I'm kidding, but
[21:46] that's where we're at here. Um the the
[21:52] parking lot, as I understand it, is has
[21:55] grown without a permit to even start on
[21:59] the project. Um were the retaining walls
[22:03] even engineered
[22:05] uh and approved? Um he now uh Luke now
[22:10] wants to put coffee in ebikes on an
[22:13] expanded um park in a parking lot. Um
[22:18] that's kind of how his last project
[22:21] went.
[22:24] Um the parking lot
[22:26] um started uh the one with Canyon
[22:30] Coffee. I don't know how long you've
[22:31] been on the board, but Rick Rio about
[22:35] seven years ago was on the board and he
[22:38] was constantly complaining to me about
[22:40] how this whole parking lot um across
[22:44] from
[22:45] uh well it it's the Canyon Coffee basic
[22:50] um u location at this point.
[22:54] And basically Luke applied for uh
[22:57] putting a parking lot in there. He built
[22:59] the parking lot, said then, and this is
[23:02] all hearsay, so I I'm sure I will be corrected. Then he applied to
[23:08] have a kiosk put in. The kiosk then
[23:11] turned into a coffee shop. And while
[23:13] you're selling coffee, you might as well
[23:15] sell some t-shirts. Okay. So now, if you
[23:18] got that much inventory that needs to be
[23:21] stored, you need to build a little shed
[23:23] on the back of the property. that
[23:25] property now or that part that little
[23:27] shed now has turned into an ebike rental
[23:31] uh location. So then on the front of the
[23:34] property, he then thought, well, I need
[23:37] to serve some food.
[23:39] Now, the parking lot that he originally
[23:42] uh wanted to build is about a half the
[23:46] size of the original parking lot, which
[23:49] we actually need in town, but now it's
[23:51] about half that size. and the building
[23:53] that he put on that on that lot or it it
[23:57] it's closer than what's normally
[24:00] allowed. He needed a variance to get um
[24:05] that building built because it's too
[24:07] close to the road. So, this is it's it's
[24:11] all following a very familiar pl uh
[24:14] plan. Um so, I'm sorry. I'm sorry I'm
[24:18] nervous. I don't like talking bad about
[24:21] people, but this is um this is the way
[24:26] uh Luke Wilson does business. He will uh
[24:30] do something that is not appropriate and
[24:33] then continue to push until somebody finally stops him. When is this
[24:38] going to stop? Thank you.
[24:42] >> Thank you. Are there any other comments
[24:45] from
[24:46] >> Yeah, just a moment. Yeah.
[24:49] Um, we'll just make sure that there's no
[24:51] other public comments before we close uh
[24:54] public hearing.
[24:56] And so if that's the end of
[24:58] >> I move to close the public hearing.
[25:00] >> Second.
[25:01] >> Motion by Paul, second by Terry. All in
[25:04] favor?
[25:05] >> I.
[25:05] >> Jennifer I.
[25:06] >> All I.
[25:10] » Motion passes. And at this time the
[25:13] applicant can respond.
[25:16] Thank you.
[25:17] >> Yeah. Luke Wilson, I appreciate you
[25:19] being open and honest about how you feel
[25:21] about it. Um,
[25:23] uh, to be very candid, I would love it
[25:25] if, uh, I didn't have to put a I don't
[25:28] want to put anything on this. I don't
[25:31] want to put any businesses on this. I
[25:33] told that to Tom and Nile. I'm trying to
[25:35] meet their requirements. I think the
[25:37] town um, I was urged um, when I built my
[25:41] other parking lot, I was urged to put
[25:43] something that screened the parking in
[25:45] front of it. I don't think anybody likes
[25:46] to stare at big black parking lots and
[25:48] so having something in the front that
[25:51] but but yeah all of that was approved it
[25:53] was legal. It was applied for and I know
[25:55] there's a lot of hearsay but you know I
[25:57] could ask u you know you mentioned about
[26:00] the wall if it's engineered I mean you
[26:03] could ask Tom is there a Rosenberg
[26:05] letter that talked about all of that the
[26:07] inspection and the height and everything
[26:08] of that wall and the grading permit?
[26:10] Yeah that's legal. Um, is the grading
[26:13] per design?
[26:16] >> Yeah, the grading permit was approved.
[26:18] >> Yeah, I even paid a fine for it just because it it seemed like it was
[26:24] while it was being sorted out a little
[26:26] aggressive and I agreed to pay a fine
[26:27] for it, but the engineers have said
[26:29] everything there is per per code, per
[26:31] everything. So, I I I don't mind at all
[26:35] being called out on any of it. Candidly,
[26:38] I don't want to put a bathroom or a
[26:39] business or anything on the parking lot.
[26:42] parking lots are a lot easier to operate
[26:44] than coffee businesses. So, um I do feel
[26:48] like they're a nice addition to I think
[26:50] the the code I didn't come up with it,
[26:53] but the code prescribes a complimentary
[26:55] business to the use which is a parking
[26:57] lot and I think people would appreciate
[26:59] coffee or ebikes or whatever it is. But
[27:02] if any of that's bad or illegal, you
[27:04] know, no one ever said that to me. But I
[27:06] did approve and and go through all of
[27:07] the motions to get all of those other
[27:09] buildings and businesses approved over
[27:11] many years on the other location as
[27:12] well. So setbacks, heights, everything.
[27:15] So anyway, if anybody has any questions
[27:17] about it, I'd be happy to talk, but I
[27:20] would preferably not have to do any of
[27:22] this, but uh I I will to meet the code
[27:25] to become compliant.
[27:27] >> Thank you. U planning commission may go
[27:30] into deliberation.
[27:40] start here. Um, so there's several things I think that need
[27:46] to be modified for this plan to meet the
[27:49] code. Um, there's the acute angle
[27:53] parking spaces. Um, there's the, uh,
[27:58] there's the landscaping. Um, I'd like to
[28:01] see a little we'd like to see a little
[28:03] more detail and some numbers on um the
[28:06] fact that the landscaping um meets the
[28:10] requirements. Um, and given the angles
[28:14] and positions of the parking lot, maybe
[28:17] positioning might be a little bit adjust
[28:20] from my perspective might be able to be
[28:22] adjusted, but I would still like to see
[28:24] that uh in part because of um, you know,
[28:28] 10239B,
[28:30] which talks about um um, heat islands.
[28:35] And if you look at this, all of the
[28:37] asphalt is sort of all around and
[28:41] planting is around the outside. There's
[28:43] a very small space in the middle. So,
[28:46] I'm a little concerned about whether
[28:47] this really meets the heat islands
[28:49] issue. Um,
[28:52] and then as the as the uh as the um um
[28:58] writeup indicated, there's uh
[29:00] landscaping at the end of both aisles
[29:03] and then the 4 foot wide, it does say 4
[29:05] foot wide space between. Um, on the
[29:09] other hand, I have been up and looked at
[29:11] the parking lot and I and I agree with
[29:13] the applicant that there's a significant
[29:14] vertical difference. Um, so my personal
[29:19] feeling is that
[29:21] we might be able to say there's a
[29:22] certain flexibility in where that
[29:24] landscaping goes. Um, but there should
[29:27] be landscaping to deal with, you know,
[29:31] to reduce the heat island effect and to
[29:33] have some additional green that area.
[29:37] Um and then um and then of course
[29:41] there's the restroom and the the trash
[29:43] and recycling.
[29:48] So I'm a little of a mind to um deny and
[29:54] request that the applicant come back
[29:56] with a more detailed plan that takes
[29:58] care of these things and we can see it
[30:00] in the drawing. But I'll open up to
[30:02] other thoughts on that.
[30:09] So the modified plans that you would be
[30:11] referring to would be repainting the
[30:15] lines and
[30:16] >> Yeah. So that would be a a redesign of
[30:20] the acute angle parking. Um, it would
[30:23] also include more information
[30:26] about the landscaping and the amount of
[30:29] square footage landscaping and and an
[30:31] indication of of that the required
[30:34] amount of landscaping has been placed
[30:36] even if it's slightly out of, you know,
[30:39] not necessarily in exactly the position
[30:41] required by the ordinances.
[30:44] Um, and then an indication of where the
[30:47] recycling and trash are going to go. um
[30:49] and maybe a little more information
[30:51] about the restroom um that would be
[30:55] placed so that we can understand you
[30:57] know is it a big blue port of body or is
[31:00] it you know I'm assuming it's not I'm
[31:01] assuming it'll be some of the
[31:03] >> screen
[31:04] >> yeah you know and so a little
[31:06] information about the screening so to me
[31:09] I would like to see more information to
[31:11] do approval
[31:13] >> yeah I think that's a reasonable thing
[31:15] to do I had a question also and you know
[31:18] there's there's a photo at the top of
[31:20] the staff report and then there's this
[31:23] diagram that show where the mobile
[31:26] business is going to go. Um they're
[31:28] different. This one looks larger than
[31:30] the other. The the photo is a much
[31:32] smaller space. It appears to be because
[31:34] the striping uh comes to an acute point
[31:37] at the end as opposed to the separation
[31:38] there. So my question is is there room
[31:41] enough in that location for a coffee
[31:45] business? Um and so that's that I think
[31:49] you know you could
[31:50] >> we could add to that list. Um the other consideration is that um if
[31:58] you have a mobile business there or or a
[32:01] permanent business down the road, the
[32:03] mobile business requires two dedicated
[32:05] parking spaces that would not be
[32:06] rentable for for daily parking or
[32:09] whatever. And so that would have to be I
[32:11] would want to see that mapped off or how
[32:13] you're going to handle that. Um I think
[32:16] you one of the questions I had was um
[32:20] you know if if if it were our decision
[32:24] to allow a mobile business there given
[32:26] that the mobile business is limited
[32:28] three hours of operation on a day on a
[32:31] daily basis. Um that introduces some
[32:34] interesting questions. But the other the
[32:37] other question I had was if if you had
[32:40] to take the time or go through the
[32:43] process of uh acquiring a tenant to
[32:46] operate that business. Um does the town
[32:49] allow the operation of the parking lot
[32:52] in the absence of an operating business
[32:54] on that lot? But if the intent is that
[32:56] that's a
[32:58] you know you you own the business um
[33:00] maybe that's less of a consideration but
[33:03] something that we need to think address
[33:06] as well
[33:11] on the topic of the head-to-head parking
[33:13] is there any anything defining about
[33:18] what that entails because then I went
[33:21] and looked at it too and I wouldn't have
[33:24] considered that head-to-head parking
[33:26] because of the the distance and height.
[33:30] So,
[33:32] >> I don't know is could it possibly not
[33:34] even be defined as head-to-head parking?
[33:37] >> Well, yeah. You wonder, you know, it's
[33:39] head to overhead parking to some
[33:42] >> because that's where the landscaping
[33:43] piece comes, right? I think Terry's got
[33:45] probably a decent solution to that in my mind and that is that you know if
[33:50] we if the reason for having head parking
[33:52] is to reduce the heat heat island effect
[33:54] and have landscaping in there and we
[33:56] move the landscaping a little bit down
[33:57] the way or some other place and and
[34:00] reduce that you know eliminate that
[34:02] problem in that fashion that might be a
[34:04] >> right viable
[34:06] >> because of the vertical elevation of the
[34:08] vertical that yeah
[34:10] >> you normally wouldn't want to do that if
[34:12] you had space in a normal parking that
[34:14] was on the same level, but in this case,
[34:16] you might be able to and and
[34:19] uh landscape the wall at the same time.
[34:22] And then
[34:24] when it comes to the portable
[34:28] restroom,
[34:30] um
[34:32] are you wanting to see dimensions and
[34:35] under have a better understanding of
[34:37] what constitutes the size?
[34:40] >> I'd like to understand
[34:44] um well, for example, when when we get
[34:46] lighting plans, it often includes
[34:48] pictures of the lighting fixtures.
[34:50] Right.
[34:50] >> Right. So, I'd like to have an
[34:52] indication. Okay, this is the portable
[34:54] restroom we're putting in. Here's what
[34:56] it's going to look like. And then the
[34:59] screening material is going to be let's
[35:02] perhaps it's rust rusted metal or some
[35:05] other material. We'd like to know what
[35:07] that material is going to be. Um, and
[35:10] what color it's going to be. Uh,
[35:14] >> is it called out?
[35:15] >> It says metal.
[35:19] >> Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So, it's called out as
[35:21] metal screening. Um I'd like to know
[35:24] that it's for example that it's rusted
[35:27] because that's meets the requirements.
[35:29] Um question might be is it like a flat
[35:33] metal or you know you see some fences
[35:35] around that are a corrugated.
[35:37] Um, I think there's options, but I think
[35:40] in terms of of approving a design
[35:43] development review, I'd like to see we
[35:46] usually see those kinds of things in um,
[35:48] you know, pictures of this is what the
[35:50] external materials are going to look
[35:51] like.
[36:09] I understand those concerns. Sorry, my
[36:11] mind just keeps going to um
[36:14] the potential conditions
[36:17] we can list and uh
[36:21] if any of these would fit into that
[36:23] rather than a a reubmission that the
[36:27] picture thing,
[36:29] >> you know, made sense to me. But at the
[36:31] same time,
[36:34] if the materials comply with the town's
[36:36] standards,
[36:39] >> um
[36:42] I I could see us potentially going
[36:44] either way. Approval with a significant
[36:48] number of conditions, right,
[36:49] >> or denial and a request to come back.
[36:52] >> Um I think the advantage of denial and
[36:54] request to come back is that we could
[36:56] see those things.
[36:59] um the state of conditions would be then
[37:02] the staff would confirm and I think you
[37:04] know we can also trust the staff to
[37:05] confirm well too. So
[37:08] my personal preference right now is is
[37:10] to deny because I would like to see the
[37:12] whole picture but I'm like to hear other
[37:15] people in this
[37:17] >> the question that I would have in that
[37:18] regard is rather as an alternative
[37:21] denial can we table it and give the
[37:23] applicant time to submit a a model. So
[37:26] just just procedurally uh you would
[37:29] table a decision and request that
[37:31] information if you wanted to see it
[37:33] again rather than deny the
[37:34] >> that way we wouldn't have to incur
[37:36] additional fees or anything like that.
[37:37] Right.
[37:37] >> Yeah. Exactly.
[37:38] >> Okay.
[37:40] Yeah. That
[37:40] >> I would rather do
[37:41] >> I like that better than a resubmission.
[37:47] Uh
[37:50] I would say um part of that regarding
[37:53] the trash and recycling receptacles
[37:58] if there you know just what that
[38:01] >> well
[38:01] >> that will be
[38:02] >> they could be play you know we could see
[38:03] where to be
[38:04] >> exactly
[38:05] >> that would be one of the
[38:06] >> and what the enclosure
[38:08] >> is and all that
[38:19] » my other parking lot.
[38:21] >> Did you come up to the
[38:22] >> Yeah, thank you.
[38:23] >> We produce a lot of trash at this
[38:25] parking lot.
[38:27] I think over the years Janet just had a
[38:29] little can receives diapers and socks or
[38:32] whatever. Just um
[38:35] is there a size requirement for that? I
[38:38] don't have like something that's
[38:39] producing a ton of trash. Like right now
[38:41] I don't have a a trash can at all. I
[38:43] pick up trash twice a week and it's just
[38:45] a little baggie.
[38:48] Just a receptacle like a large trash can
[38:52] that's screened.
[38:54] >> Do I have to?
[38:54] >> No, there's not a size requirement.
[38:57] >> I didn't read that it had to be a
[38:58] dumpster,
[38:59] >> right? No, it does not have No, in fact,
[39:00] >> just a just a trash facility and a
[39:02] recycling facility. That's what I
[39:03] thought. And I can see that if as a
[39:05] business I need a bigger dumpster, then
[39:06] I get one. But I I couldn't see in the
[39:08] code that it said it just said
[39:10] receptacle.
[39:11] >> Right.
[39:12] >> So here here's the exact verbiage from
[39:16] the code. So it says the owner of a
[39:18] public parking area must provide trash
[39:20] and recycling recepticles.
[39:23] >> The parking lot owner or operator must
[39:25] keep the trash and recycle recycling
[39:28] receptacles clean and emptied.
[39:30] >> Thank you. That's what I was hoping for.
[39:32] >> And it doesn't need to be screened or
[39:33] anything, right? Just provide the
[39:37] Yeah.
[39:39] >> Okay.
[39:40] >> Put them next to the um coffee place.
[39:43] It's where you're going to get the most
[39:44] trash probably.
[39:45] >> What's that?
[39:46] >> I guess you could put them next to the
[39:48] uh the coffee. Um and I would suggest
[39:51] the lounge area. People are going to be
[39:52] picnicking there. You need to have
[39:54] something over that end as well because
[39:57] you're sort of inviting trash.
[40:12] We ready?
[40:13] >> I think so. Yeah.
[40:15] >> Okay. So, um I assume then I I'll
[40:19] replace approves denies with table and
[40:21] otherwise proceed, right?
[40:24] Okay.
[40:26] Um
[40:29] so I I think
[40:31] um Um
[40:34] yeah,
[40:36] so the uh planning commission um wishes
[40:39] to table the design development review
[40:42] application for an expansion of the
[40:44] public parking lot at 50 Zion Park
[40:48] Boulevard as discussed in the planning
[40:50] commission meeting dated June 3rd, 2026.
[40:54] It's based on the following findings. Um
[40:57] the acute angle spaces require oneway
[41:00] traffic per lane or oneway traffic lane
[41:04] per the town code 10237E and 10237F.
[41:09] So this section will have to be
[41:11] reconfigured.
[41:13] Um the additional landscape uh uh
[41:16] landscaping within the asphalt area um
[41:20] will need to be sized to meet the
[41:23] requirements of the landscaping. um but
[41:26] does have the flexibility to not be in
[41:29] exactly the the same positions because
[41:31] of the configuration of the of the lot.
[41:34] Um and this uh refers to town code
[41:37] 10186C and 10239B.
[41:43] Um
[41:44] the uh self-contained restroom
[41:48] uh needs to meet the town code um and is
[41:51] also to be screened. Um, and we would
[41:53] like to see the screening material. Uh,
[41:57] what that will be. Um, the applicant
[42:00] will also provide trash and recycling
[42:03] recepticles on the property and we'd
[42:05] like to see them noted as to where they
[42:07] will be. Um,
[42:10] let's see. And then we would like uh
[42:13] more in Okay. More detail on the mobile
[42:18] business uh space dedications. That was
[42:20] what you were asking about, Paul. Right.
[42:22] Yeah.
[42:22] >> How much what spaces and how much space?
[42:25] >> How much space?
[42:26] and how many parking
[42:27] spaces and where?
[42:32] » That's my motion.
[42:33] >> And
[42:35] I would suggest a modification to
[42:37] include a surface water drainage
[42:39] strategy.
[42:40] >> Yes, the drainage strategy for approval
[42:43] Springdale within two months of the date
[42:44] of this approval.
[42:45] >> Right. There there will be surface and
[42:47] add to that the surface uh water
[42:50] drainage strategy and plan will be
[42:52] submitted to the town
[42:55] for approval by in town engineer.
[42:59] Thank you. I forgot that one. And then
[43:01] the the only uh other thing would be the
[43:06] um
[43:09] vertical landscaping of the wall that
[43:12] was offered. Um do we want to require
[43:17] one? Okay. So also also a de
[43:21] a um drawings expect and and materials
[43:25] plant materials being used for the
[43:27] vertical landscaping of the wall.
[43:31] » Second
[43:33] >> motion by Terry, second by Paul. All in
[43:36] favor?
[43:37] >> Terry I.
[43:38] >> Jennifer I.
[43:39] >> Paul I.
[43:42] Kosh I
[43:44] >> motion passes.
[43:47] >> Thank you.
[43:47] >> We'll see you again.
[43:48] >> Thank you.
[43:54] >> Item B on the agenda, the consent
[43:56] agenda, approval of minutes from March
[43:59] 18th, April 1st, April 15th, and May
[44:02] 6th. Are there any suggested changes or
[44:05] a motion for approval? If there's no
[44:08] changes suggested, I move that we
[44:10] approve the consent agenda. Uh
[44:12] >> I will second.
[44:13] >> Motion by Paul, second by Terry. All in
[44:15] favor?
[44:16] >> Terry I.
[44:17] >> Jennifer I.
[44:18] >> Paul I.
[44:19] >> Hash I.
[44:20] >> Melissa I.
[44:21] >> Motion passes.
[44:22] >> I move that we adjourn.
[44:26] I have a second.
[44:27] >> Motion by Paul, second by Terry. All in
[44:30] favor?
[44:30] >> Terry I.
[44:31] >> Jennifer I.
[44:32] >> Paul I. Ash.
[44:33] >> I.
[44:35] >> Meeting is adjourned.