1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:00,960 Ready? 2 00:00:00,960 --> 00:00:04,160 >> Okay. Okay. [clears throat] I'd like to 3 00:00:04,160 --> 00:00:06,480 uh welcome everybody to the Springdale 4 00:00:06,480 --> 00:00:09,840 Art Review Board meeting. Um this is a 5 00:00:09,840 --> 00:00:11,759 special meeting. 6 00:00:11,759 --> 00:00:16,160 Today is Monday, July 6th, 2026 7 00:00:16,160 --> 00:00:19,439 and the time is 12:08. 8 00:00:19,439 --> 00:00:22,160 Um we are at the Canyon Community Center 9 00:00:22,160 --> 00:00:24,800 here in Springdale. And joining us we 10 00:00:24,800 --> 00:00:27,039 have Tom Dancy. 11 00:00:27,039 --> 00:00:28,880 We've got a new kid on the block, 12 00:00:28,880 --> 00:00:31,840 >> David Walpert. 13 00:00:31,840 --> 00:00:35,280 >> David Wahlberg, uh Nile Connley, April 14 00:00:35,280 --> 00:00:36,800 Radits, 15 00:00:36,800 --> 00:00:40,960 um uh Mike 16 00:00:40,960 --> 00:00:42,640 Alucker, 17 00:00:42,640 --> 00:00:46,559 Kathy Lefay, myself, Jack Burns, Lisa 18 00:00:46,559 --> 00:00:50,079 Benham, and Jim Walsh. I think we should 19 00:00:50,079 --> 00:00:54,310 have our main [laughter] 20 00:00:54,320 --> 00:00:57,280 » uh Okay. So, uh we have a couple items 21 00:00:57,280 --> 00:00:59,760 on the agenda today, but before we get 22 00:00:59,760 --> 00:01:02,559 started, could we uh get a motion for 23 00:01:02,559 --> 00:01:04,239 approval of the agenda? 24 00:01:04,239 --> 00:01:06,799 >> I'll move to approve the agenda. 25 00:01:06,799 --> 00:01:07,760 >> I'd second it. 26 00:01:07,760 --> 00:01:08,799 >> All in [clears throat] favor? 27 00:01:08,799 --> 00:01:11,520 >> I 28 00:01:11,520 --> 00:01:13,760 uh any general announcements from the 29 00:01:13,760 --> 00:01:17,520 town? I'd like to uh introduce David 30 00:01:17,520 --> 00:01:19,600 Walpert, our new zoning administrator, 31 00:01:19,600 --> 00:01:21,759 who's here with us. So, we're delighted 32 00:01:21,759 --> 00:01:24,479 he joined us a few weeks ago, so he'll 33 00:01:24,479 --> 00:01:26,560 be at the meeting. 34 00:01:26,560 --> 00:01:29,360 >> That's great. 35 00:01:29,360 --> 00:01:31,520 >> Okay. Um 36 00:01:31,520 --> 00:01:33,600 so, the first item we have is an action 37 00:01:33,600 --> 00:01:36,560 item. This is an application for a mural 38 00:01:36,560 --> 00:01:40,240 at Iceberg Restaurant located at 849 39 00:01:40,240 --> 00:01:43,360 Zion Park Boulevard. and Nile, you're 40 00:01:43,360 --> 00:01:45,920 gonna get us started. 41 00:01:45,920 --> 00:01:49,200 >> Yeah, thank you. So, the art re review 42 00:01:49,200 --> 00:01:50,799 board has requested to make a 43 00:01:50,799 --> 00:01:53,600 determination on a mural application at 44 00:01:53,600 --> 00:01:55,759 the Iceberg [snorts] restaurant which is 45 00:01:55,759 --> 00:01:59,280 at 849 Z Park Boulevard. Uh the board 46 00:01:59,280 --> 00:02:01,680 reviewed this application at the last 47 00:02:01,680 --> 00:02:05,280 meeting and decided to table uh the 48 00:02:05,280 --> 00:02:08,399 decision uh mostly to allow board 49 00:02:08,399 --> 00:02:12,080 members to view the mural after dark. Um 50 00:02:12,080 --> 00:02:14,400 so the board should now take this time 51 00:02:14,400 --> 00:02:16,959 to deliberate on the mural and make a 52 00:02:16,959 --> 00:02:20,160 determination on it. Uh the the key 53 00:02:20,160 --> 00:02:22,800 points are as follows. So there's the 54 00:02:22,800 --> 00:02:24,800 color palette. So the questions around 55 00:02:24,800 --> 00:02:28,720 that. The second point is around whether 56 00:02:28,720 --> 00:02:36,000 this is advertising or not and as the policy says that it it should be 57 00:02:36,000 --> 00:02:38,560 a work of art rather than uh than 58 00:02:38,560 --> 00:02:40,319 advertising. 59 00:02:40,319 --> 00:02:43,040 And then thirdly, h is it illuminated? 60 00:02:43,040 --> 00:02:46,000 And I I think since the last time you've 61 00:02:46,000 --> 00:02:48,879 all been able to visit it at nighttime, 62 00:02:48,879 --> 00:02:51,360 so you can draw a conclusion on that 63 00:02:51,360 --> 00:02:53,519 point too. 64 00:02:53,519 --> 00:02:55,519 And just finally, we received a public 65 00:02:55,519 --> 00:02:59,599 comment just this morning actually and 66 00:02:59,599 --> 00:03:02,560 I think you have a copy of it there, do 67 00:03:02,560 --> 00:03:08,470 you? 68 00:03:08,480 --> 00:03:10,319 So, just to draw your attention to that 69 00:03:10,319 --> 00:03:12,959 as well. So, I'd be happy to answer any 70 00:03:12,959 --> 00:03:15,760 questions. The business owners are here 71 00:03:15,760 --> 00:03:17,599 and they'll be able to answer questions 72 00:03:17,599 --> 00:03:23,509 too if you would like. 73 00:03:23,519 --> 00:03:26,080 » Start with um comments on the color 74 00:03:26,080 --> 00:03:31,599 palette. Um, you know, if a 75 00:03:31,599 --> 00:03:34,480 image of Zion National Park pretty 76 00:03:34,480 --> 00:03:37,440 spot-on color-wise is not on our color 77 00:03:37,440 --> 00:03:38,720 palette, we ought to look at our color 78 00:03:38,720 --> 00:03:40,400 palette. 79 00:03:40,400 --> 00:03:42,239 >> That I mean, I feel strongly on that. I 80 00:03:42,239 --> 00:03:46,239 mean, that is to me, if you look at the 81 00:03:46,239 --> 00:03:50,239 thought of going forward with art 82 00:03:50,239 --> 00:03:52,239 installations within this community, and 83 00:03:52,239 --> 00:03:53,840 we're encouraging public art 84 00:03:53,840 --> 00:03:57,840 installations, and we even had comments. 85 00:03:57,840 --> 00:04:00,959 That image just went away. Um, we even 86 00:04:00,959 --> 00:04:04,400 had comments about like how could you 87 00:04:04,400 --> 00:04:07,200 incorporate photography paintings in 88 00:04:07,200 --> 00:04:09,439 terms of public art. we talked about 89 00:04:09,439 --> 00:04:14,000 along the the walls that were put in um 90 00:04:14,000 --> 00:04:18,160 the artificial stone walls and 91 00:04:18,160 --> 00:04:22,479 you know um iceberg drive-in 92 00:04:22,479 --> 00:04:24,400 you know that 93 00:04:24,400 --> 00:04:26,639 I wrestle with that portion of it. I 94 00:04:26,639 --> 00:04:29,600 think it's tastefully artistically done. 95 00:04:29,600 --> 00:04:33,120 Um I even think it's kind of it's not a 96 00:04:33,120 --> 00:04:35,600 drive-in but it kind of it's like a 97 00:04:35,600 --> 00:04:39,440 retro flashback to what iceberg started 98 00:04:39,440 --> 00:04:41,040 as 99 00:04:41,040 --> 00:04:44,880 um you know I stuck it in front of the 100 00:04:44,880 --> 00:04:46,720 cliffs as I am that we're you know we 101 00:04:46,720 --> 00:04:49,280 might struggle with that a bit. I think 102 00:04:49,280 --> 00:04:52,479 it's adorable. Um 103 00:04:52,479 --> 00:04:54,800 that being said, 104 00:04:54,800 --> 00:04:57,360 we're faced with what might come after 105 00:04:57,360 --> 00:04:59,520 this and in the future and somebody 106 00:04:59,520 --> 00:05:02,880 else's arguments of what verbiage might 107 00:05:02,880 --> 00:05:06,560 be appropriate or not. But I also drove 108 00:05:06,560 --> 00:05:09,280 through town and Springdale Candy 109 00:05:09,280 --> 00:05:12,000 Company had I mean I can't tell you how 110 00:05:12,000 --> 00:05:14,479 much verbiage is on their windows. I 111 00:05:14,479 --> 00:05:16,160 mean it's it's a ton and it's 112 00:05:16,160 --> 00:05:18,880 advertising and are we questioning it 113 00:05:18,880 --> 00:05:22,160 because it's not mural or not art. Um 114 00:05:22,160 --> 00:05:24,000 you look at the switchback you know 115 00:05:24,000 --> 00:05:28,240 stakes this that you know those are 116 00:05:28,240 --> 00:05:30,080 words. 117 00:05:30,080 --> 00:05:35,110 Those are my comments for for now. 118 00:05:35,120 --> 00:05:36,720 I [clears throat] looked at it and I 119 00:05:36,720 --> 00:05:38,800 went and I didn't looked at it and I 120 00:05:38,800 --> 00:05:42,080 also looked up actually what a mural is 121 00:05:42,080 --> 00:05:43,840 and I'm going to take the stance that 122 00:05:43,840 --> 00:05:46,720 it's not a mural, it's a sign. And I 123 00:05:46,720 --> 00:05:48,400 think that it should really go back to 124 00:05:48,400 --> 00:05:51,520 the city and they have signage and the 125 00:05:51,520 --> 00:05:53,840 city can look at it and they can make 126 00:05:53,840 --> 00:05:57,120 exceptions. It has advertising on it. It 127 00:05:57,120 --> 00:06:01,360 doesn't fill the whole color uh uh that 128 00:06:01,360 --> 00:06:03,840 was set up. So, I'm just going to take 129 00:06:03,840 --> 00:06:05,840 the stance. It's not a mural and it 130 00:06:05,840 --> 00:06:09,600 really isn't in our our area to judge 131 00:06:09,600 --> 00:06:11,919 and I look at it as a sign and I would 132 00:06:11,919 --> 00:06:13,759 recommend it go back to the city and 133 00:06:13,759 --> 00:06:17,120 they can take it from there. 134 00:06:17,120 --> 00:06:18,880 >> I think from a functional standpoint, 135 00:06:18,880 --> 00:06:22,080 from what they said, it's actually um 136 00:06:22,080 --> 00:06:24,080 it's a window covering, right? It's 137 00:06:24,080 --> 00:06:26,880 actually it was put there to serve and 138 00:06:26,880 --> 00:06:29,520 not have a big glaring kitchen window 139 00:06:29,520 --> 00:06:33,120 going out into the town. So just just to 140 00:06:33,120 --> 00:06:35,440 either simplify or complicate things, 141 00:06:35,440 --> 00:06:40,000 it's it's um I don't even 142 00:06:40,000 --> 00:06:42,479 the exceptions that the I'm not maybe as 143 00:06:42,479 --> 00:06:44,400 familiar as you are with the exceptions 144 00:06:44,400 --> 00:06:46,400 that the town is allowed to to make 145 00:06:46,400 --> 00:06:48,800 regarding window coverings, but I think 146 00:06:48,800 --> 00:06:51,840 in this case the added area is actually 147 00:06:51,840 --> 00:06:53,440 serving functionally in a way that 148 00:06:53,440 --> 00:06:55,919 shouldn't be penalized. 149 00:06:55,919 --> 00:06:58,479 And um 150 00:06:58,479 --> 00:07:01,039 from an artistic standpoint, I was just 151 00:07:01,039 --> 00:07:02,560 looking at it again and kind of laughing 152 00:07:02,560 --> 00:07:03,919 and going, you know, from a fine art 153 00:07:03,919 --> 00:07:06,240 standpoint, it's kind of hilarious that 154 00:07:06,240 --> 00:07:10,160 because there's this giant um this is 155 00:07:10,160 --> 00:07:12,240 like coming from a I love I love art 156 00:07:12,240 --> 00:07:15,039 when it tweaks your brain standpoint. 157 00:07:15,039 --> 00:07:17,440 It's this giant billboard that would 158 00:07:17,440 --> 00:07:19,599 absolutely never be allowed placed on a 159 00:07:19,599 --> 00:07:22,080 rock like that in the canyon and yet 160 00:07:22,080 --> 00:07:24,319 it's quite delightful on a small window. 161 00:07:24,319 --> 00:07:27,360 So, uh, I I think it has a lot of merit 162 00:07:27,360 --> 00:07:28,479 coming from a lot of different 163 00:07:28,479 --> 00:07:30,960 directions and I would just hate us to 164 00:07:30,960 --> 00:07:33,759 see the whole project browbeated because 165 00:07:33,759 --> 00:07:36,000 of technicality technicalities that we 166 00:07:36,000 --> 00:07:38,400 don't know what to do with. 167 00:07:38,400 --> 00:07:41,599 >> I I might suggest that the board could 168 00:07:41,599 --> 00:07:45,840 recommend to the city that we see it as 169 00:07:45,840 --> 00:07:49,039 a sign and that we support it. I don't 170 00:07:49,039 --> 00:07:51,919 know what they're available to do if 171 00:07:51,919 --> 00:07:53,840 they can make exceptions. I don't have 172 00:07:53,840 --> 00:07:58,000 any idea, but obviously we're looking at 173 00:07:58,000 --> 00:08:00,240 >> exceptions with the color with the 174 00:08:00,240 --> 00:08:02,960 signage. So, I'm going to sort of stick 175 00:08:02,960 --> 00:08:05,199 with it's a sign and it should go back 176 00:08:05,199 --> 00:08:08,160 to the city. And I think that if we all 177 00:08:08,160 --> 00:08:10,240 feel strongly about it and if we want to 178 00:08:10,240 --> 00:08:12,639 support it, we could give let them know 179 00:08:12,639 --> 00:08:14,639 that we support it and they could take 180 00:08:14,639 --> 00:08:16,560 it from there. 181 00:08:16,560 --> 00:08:18,080 >> Okay. 182 00:08:18,080 --> 00:08:22,240 I've taken my chill pill. Um, 183 00:08:22,240 --> 00:08:24,879 we were told it's a mural, meeting one, 184 00:08:24,879 --> 00:08:27,440 and the reasons why it's a mural, sign 185 00:08:27,440 --> 00:08:31,199 or size, um, etc. 186 00:08:31,199 --> 00:08:33,680 This will be our third meeting dealing 187 00:08:33,680 --> 00:08:36,159 with this. If we kick it back to the 188 00:08:36,159 --> 00:08:38,000 town, we will have at least two more 189 00:08:38,000 --> 00:08:40,640 meetings dealing with this. I have I 190 00:08:40,640 --> 00:08:42,080 think we're all in support of what's 191 00:08:42,080 --> 00:08:43,839 there. I do. I mean, I kind of hear that 192 00:08:43,839 --> 00:08:48,320 under undertone. And I think there's a 193 00:08:48,320 --> 00:08:50,880 very um 194 00:08:50,880 --> 00:08:55,440 easy way to do this using the wonderful 195 00:08:55,440 --> 00:08:59,200 policy that we created. Um follow our 196 00:08:59,200 --> 00:09:03,040 policy and with a few conditions we can 197 00:09:03,040 --> 00:09:08,480 make this happen. If we want to say no, Don't do this loop-de-doo with 198 00:09:08,480 --> 00:09:09,519 the town. Just say no. 199 00:09:09,519 --> 00:09:11,519 >> No. No. Because why? 200 00:09:11,519 --> 00:09:14,480 >> Whatever. because 201 00:09:14,480 --> 00:09:16,640 >> I just it drives me nuts that nobody can 202 00:09:16,640 --> 00:09:17,760 make a decision. 203 00:09:17,760 --> 00:09:22,389 >> I think that you 204 00:09:22,399 --> 00:09:24,800 subject 205 00:09:24,800 --> 00:09:28,389 to 206 00:09:28,399 --> 00:09:28,880 votes, 207 00:09:28,880 --> 00:09:29,279 >> right? 208 00:09:29,279 --> 00:09:31,200 >> But I would like to hear what the motion 209 00:09:31,200 --> 00:09:33,279 >> Let me There were three items that Nile 210 00:09:33,279 --> 00:09:36,560 spoke to. One was the um illumination, 211 00:09:36,560 --> 00:09:39,600 the color, and what's the last one? Um 212 00:09:39,600 --> 00:09:42,880 signage advertising. Um the illumination 213 00:09:42,880 --> 00:09:45,440 as far as I'm concerned is a mood issue. 214 00:09:45,440 --> 00:09:48,240 I I looked at it at night. Lisa went 215 00:09:48,240 --> 00:09:50,320 last night. Uh it's not an issue. So I 216 00:09:50,320 --> 00:09:52,399 think we're in agreement there. Um the 217 00:09:52,399 --> 00:10:00,399 color palette in our policy. It says um 218 00:10:00,399 --> 00:10:04,389 a majority of the colors 219 00:10:04,399 --> 00:10:07,120 are shown on the town's pallet for 220 00:10:07,120 --> 00:10:08,959 building constructions. other less 221 00:10:08,959 --> 00:10:10,959 significant colors are compatible with 222 00:10:10,959 --> 00:10:13,040 the existing and built surroundings of 223 00:10:13,040 --> 00:10:15,600 the site. That's our own words. It in my 224 00:10:15,600 --> 00:10:18,079 mind spot on. 225 00:10:18,079 --> 00:10:19,839 Um 226 00:10:19,839 --> 00:10:24,000 so illumination I think we've agreed on 227 00:10:24,000 --> 00:10:26,000 color. We can talk about signing and 228 00:10:26,000 --> 00:10:28,320 advertising. I think that's the the 229 00:10:28,320 --> 00:10:32,480 issue. We we turn sign adventure around 230 00:10:32,480 --> 00:10:35,519 strongly for the word Zion in their 231 00:10:35,519 --> 00:10:41,829 sign. Um because 232 00:10:41,839 --> 00:10:44,560 » whatever. Um, and you're you're right 233 00:10:44,560 --> 00:10:47,279 on. Um, this isn't just about this 234 00:10:47,279 --> 00:10:49,920 application there. There's a whole bunch 235 00:10:49,920 --> 00:10:52,880 more coming. And 236 00:10:52,880 --> 00:10:54,959 so, just so I'm clear on your position 237 00:10:54,959 --> 00:10:58,160 though, you want us to make a motion on 238 00:10:58,160 --> 00:11:01,120 this because it was given to us by the 239 00:11:01,120 --> 00:11:04,079 town as a mural. 240 00:11:04,079 --> 00:11:07,040 Now, whether we agree moving forward 241 00:11:07,040 --> 00:11:09,680 beyond this application, whether or not 242 00:11:09,680 --> 00:11:13,440 it's a window covering or a mural, then 243 00:11:13,440 --> 00:11:15,360 you're saying that's a a separate 244 00:11:15,360 --> 00:11:17,440 conversation. 245 00:11:17,440 --> 00:11:20,880 >> And if we say it's a window covering, 246 00:11:20,880 --> 00:11:22,800 my understanding from Nile on our last 247 00:11:22,800 --> 00:11:24,480 meeting, it doesn't comply. It's too 248 00:11:24,480 --> 00:11:27,279 big. It it, you know, it just it's not a 249 00:11:27,279 --> 00:11:29,920 window sign. So then they would have to 250 00:11:29,920 --> 00:11:32,800 go back and either redesign a window 251 00:11:32,800 --> 00:11:35,200 sign, which is smaller or they would 252 00:11:35,200 --> 00:11:37,519 have to propose a mural and they'd be 253 00:11:37,519 --> 00:11:40,160 back in front of us with the same issue. 254 00:11:40,160 --> 00:11:41,519 >> I don't think it would come back to us, 255 00:11:41,519 --> 00:11:43,519 Jack. If we say we don't consider it a 256 00:11:43,519 --> 00:11:46,800 mural and that give it back to the city, 257 00:11:46,800 --> 00:11:48,800 like I said, if it's a sign, then the 258 00:11:48,800 --> 00:11:51,279 city will have to make a decision on it. 259 00:11:51,279 --> 00:11:54,240 And I'm not sure the city has the power 260 00:11:54,240 --> 00:11:57,200 to make exceptions. Obviously, we do too 261 00:11:57,200 --> 00:11:59,680 because we have a, as I understand it, a 262 00:11:59,680 --> 00:12:02,720 very strict color code as far as it 263 00:12:02,720 --> 00:12:05,839 goes. And we've already looking at that 264 00:12:05,839 --> 00:12:09,120 in this uh this piece. So, 265 00:12:09,120 --> 00:12:12,480 >> I just think last talked about this, 266 00:12:12,480 --> 00:12:16,560 Nile spoke to the fact that it it um is 267 00:12:16,560 --> 00:12:20,000 not a window sign because of its size 268 00:12:20,000 --> 00:12:22,079 and um okay, what is it then? It's a 269 00:12:22,079 --> 00:12:25,440 mural and that's why it's in our lap. I 270 00:12:25,440 --> 00:12:28,399 and I I would feel really bad sending 271 00:12:28,399 --> 00:12:30,800 these two 272 00:12:30,800 --> 00:12:32,800 >> down a rabbit hole. I think it's 273 00:12:32,800 --> 00:12:35,360 tastefully done. I don't think 274 00:12:35,360 --> 00:12:38,880 elimination is an issue. 275 00:12:38,880 --> 00:12:42,480 I just I think it's great and 276 00:12:42,480 --> 00:12:45,760 unfortunately the words got put there. I 277 00:12:45,760 --> 00:12:48,320 in this situation 278 00:12:48,320 --> 00:12:50,160 I'd like the whole thing to stay because 279 00:12:50,160 --> 00:12:52,800 it has a nostalgic feel. It doesn't 280 00:12:52,800 --> 00:12:54,959 strike advertising. There is so much 281 00:12:54,959 --> 00:12:57,279 advertising around that building that is 282 00:12:57,279 --> 00:13:01,200 advertising. To me, it's retro and it's 283 00:13:01,200 --> 00:13:04,880 a take back old driveins. And to me, 284 00:13:04,880 --> 00:13:06,320 those words aren't meant to be 285 00:13:06,320 --> 00:13:08,000 advertisement. They're meant to be 286 00:13:08,000 --> 00:13:11,200 nostalgic and a take back. And I think 287 00:13:11,200 --> 00:13:13,760 that I think we have to be openminded 288 00:13:13,760 --> 00:13:15,440 enough to look at things on a case by 289 00:13:15,440 --> 00:13:17,680 case basis and decide whether it's 290 00:13:17,680 --> 00:13:22,870 advertising or if it's not. And 291 00:13:22,880 --> 00:13:24,079 I completely agree. 292 00:13:24,079 --> 00:13:25,760 >> So, I'm going to step us back just a 293 00:13:25,760 --> 00:13:27,360 little bit [clears throat] because I 294 00:13:27,360 --> 00:13:29,360 have to admit recognizing that I missed 295 00:13:29,360 --> 00:13:33,120 the meeting. Um, when I read this, it's 296 00:13:33,120 --> 00:13:34,959 like what? Why are we calling this a 297 00:13:34,959 --> 00:13:38,000 mural? And I don't want I just want to 298 00:13:38,000 --> 00:13:41,360 make sure that by 299 00:13:41,360 --> 00:13:43,360 um 300 00:13:43,360 --> 00:13:46,079 u moving forward with this is that we 301 00:13:46,079 --> 00:13:49,440 are not precedent setting in that we 302 00:13:49,440 --> 00:13:52,399 decided to treat it as a mural versus a 303 00:13:52,399 --> 00:13:55,279 window covering and I'm I'm going to ask 304 00:13:55,279 --> 00:14:04,629 for some recommendation. 305 00:14:04,639 --> 00:14:11,519 » Can we call it public art 306 00:14:11,519 --> 00:14:14,000 and have it not necessarily I mean 307 00:14:14,000 --> 00:14:16,639 public art is sculpture, 308 00:14:16,639 --> 00:14:20,800 it's music, it's murals, it's 309 00:14:20,800 --> 00:14:22,720 photography, [clears throat] it's 310 00:14:22,720 --> 00:14:25,920 painting, it it has a 311 00:14:25,920 --> 00:14:30,880 >> but public art also has a caveat that 312 00:14:30,880 --> 00:14:34,240 the two has to be on display. it has to 313 00:14:34,240 --> 00:14:38,639 be up for so many weeks. U so there's a 314 00:14:38,639 --> 00:14:40,959 whole if you look into what public art 315 00:14:40,959 --> 00:14:43,839 is there's a whole list of what they 316 00:14:43,839 --> 00:14:45,680 consider is public art. 317 00:14:45,680 --> 00:14:48,079 >> I don't think at least given the things 318 00:14:48,079 --> 00:14:49,519 that you just remembered to list I don't 319 00:14:49,519 --> 00:14:52,320 think this would fail in that regard. 320 00:14:52,320 --> 00:14:55,040 Um, I just want to clarify when I called 321 00:14:55,040 --> 00:14:56,720 it a window covering, I was thinking 322 00:14:56,720 --> 00:15:00,079 like curtain, not window decal or 323 00:15:00,079 --> 00:15:03,440 whatever the town ordinance um has very 324 00:15:03,440 --> 00:15:05,440 strict rules on. I literally meant a 325 00:15:05,440 --> 00:15:07,440 window covering. So, 326 00:15:07,440 --> 00:15:09,440 >> you mean like a curtain? 327 00:15:09,440 --> 00:15:11,600 >> Yes. Because that's when they described 328 00:15:11,600 --> 00:15:14,959 functionally why it came about. 329 00:15:14,959 --> 00:15:16,880 >> Um, if if that lends a different facet 330 00:15:16,880 --> 00:15:21,269 with which to view this. 331 00:15:21,279 --> 00:15:24,560 » Great. So uh ju just a few thoughts. Um 332 00:15:24,560 --> 00:15:26,959 so for your information I've brought up 333 00:15:26,959 --> 00:15:29,600 the definitions and the policy of mural 334 00:15:29,600 --> 00:15:32,320 and public art just there so you can 335 00:15:32,320 --> 00:15:35,839 refer to those. Um yeah so a few 336 00:15:35,839 --> 00:15:40,230 thoughts. I think um 337 00:15:40,240 --> 00:15:44,079 as far as um due process goes for the 338 00:15:44,079 --> 00:15:47,199 applicants. I would maybe recommend that 339 00:15:47,199 --> 00:15:50,399 you make a decision one way or the other 340 00:15:50,399 --> 00:15:54,880 in this meeting. I think um determining 341 00:15:54,880 --> 00:15:57,519 that it's signage and that would require 342 00:15:57,519 --> 00:16:00,320 them to make another permit application. 343 00:16:00,320 --> 00:16:02,800 Uh they probably would not get approved. 344 00:16:02,800 --> 00:16:05,360 It it's probably 345 00:16:05,360 --> 00:16:08,079 not fair to the applicants to do that. 346 00:16:08,079 --> 00:16:10,639 would be my sense. I I I would 347 00:16:10,639 --> 00:16:13,360 recommend that you do make a decision on 348 00:16:13,360 --> 00:16:18,720 the basis that it is a mural. Um 349 00:16:18,720 --> 00:16:23,199 and um I would say you know those those 350 00:16:23,199 --> 00:16:25,440 three points that I mentioned at the 351 00:16:25,440 --> 00:16:26,959 beginning 352 00:16:26,959 --> 00:16:28,480 those are really the three points that 353 00:16:28,480 --> 00:16:31,680 this is hinging on. And so I think you 354 00:16:31,680 --> 00:16:36,079 know I would focus on um whether you 355 00:16:36,079 --> 00:16:38,639 think this complies with those three 356 00:16:38,639 --> 00:16:42,959 points um and whether that's um you know 357 00:16:42,959 --> 00:16:44,800 justified within the policy that that 358 00:16:44,800 --> 00:16:47,120 would be my recommendation. 359 00:16:47,120 --> 00:16:50,959 If if we need to kind of look at window 360 00:16:50,959 --> 00:16:54,079 coverings or window signs or the 361 00:16:54,079 --> 00:16:56,480 definition of the mural a little bit 362 00:16:56,480 --> 00:17:01,279 more broadly and and tweak this policy 363 00:17:01,279 --> 00:17:04,480 that we could do that but probably at a 364 00:17:04,480 --> 00:17:06,640 separate meeting that that we would kind 365 00:17:06,640 --> 00:17:09,360 of discuss that. I I would recommend 366 00:17:09,360 --> 00:17:12,319 making a determination on this based on 367 00:17:12,319 --> 00:17:14,799 the policy based on the fact that it has 368 00:17:14,799 --> 00:17:17,600 been defined as a mural and kind of 369 00:17:17,600 --> 00:17:19,679 based on those standards. 370 00:17:19,679 --> 00:17:22,400 >> Neil, did you define it as a mural? 371 00:17:22,400 --> 00:17:24,079 >> Who defined it as a mural? 372 00:17:24,079 --> 00:17:27,120 >> So that that was a staff decision that 373 00:17:27,120 --> 00:17:29,440 kind of based on this definition here. 374 00:17:29,440 --> 00:17:31,280 with a mix of colors, designs, and 375 00:17:31,280 --> 00:17:33,840 shapes, and other design elements 376 00:17:33,840 --> 00:17:36,880 painted or permanently fixed onto a 377 00:17:36,880 --> 00:17:39,280 vertical or nearvertical surface of a 378 00:17:39,280 --> 00:17:41,520 structure for the purpose of artistic 379 00:17:41,520 --> 00:17:43,200 display. 380 00:17:43,200 --> 00:17:47,120 And that was that was staff's 381 00:17:47,120 --> 00:17:49,280 interpretation that it would fall under 382 00:17:49,280 --> 00:17:50,320 that category. 383 00:17:50,320 --> 00:17:53,360 >> And is this a vinyl covering? 384 00:17:53,360 --> 00:17:56,240 >> It it is a wrap, isn't it? Yeah. 385 00:17:56,240 --> 00:18:02,080 >> Yeah. So, can we go back to the the 386 00:18:02,080 --> 00:18:07,679 photograph of the um window covering? Um 387 00:18:07,679 --> 00:18:11,120 so, again, I want to talk about the text 388 00:18:11,120 --> 00:18:13,760 within it. If you go around the other 389 00:18:13,760 --> 00:18:16,559 side of the building, shakes, 390 00:18:16,559 --> 00:18:18,320 hamburgers, 391 00:18:18,320 --> 00:18:21,919 you know, I that is as much advertising 392 00:18:21,919 --> 00:18:25,120 >> windows. I know. But 393 00:18:25,120 --> 00:18:28,240 >> in terms of like aesthetic impact, that 394 00:18:28,240 --> 00:18:30,320 is so small, I think is what you 395 00:18:30,320 --> 00:18:32,320 >> It's just so small. I mean, when I look 396 00:18:32,320 --> 00:18:34,240 at that, I see Zion National Park and 397 00:18:34,240 --> 00:18:36,160 then I just slightly see Iceberg 398 00:18:36,160 --> 00:18:38,080 Drive-In and I think, "Oh, that reminds 399 00:18:38,080 --> 00:18:39,520 me of when I was a kid and I would go to 400 00:18:39,520 --> 00:18:41,840 the A&W drive-in and we'd pull up." It 401 00:18:41,840 --> 00:18:44,400 it's it doesn't make me think of 402 00:18:44,400 --> 00:18:46,240 advertisement. It makes me think of 403 00:18:46,240 --> 00:18:48,000 childhood and the drive-ins that we used 404 00:18:48,000 --> 00:18:49,679 to go through and get cheeseburgers, 405 00:18:49,679 --> 00:18:52,320 fries, and a rip your float. It just 406 00:18:52,320 --> 00:18:54,720 doesn't because they aren't a drive-in. 407 00:18:54,720 --> 00:18:56,240 Why would they put drive-in if they were 408 00:18:56,240 --> 00:18:58,000 trying to advertise their drive-in? They 409 00:18:58,000 --> 00:19:00,480 don't have one. It's a flashback to when 410 00:19:00,480 --> 00:19:05,280 iceberg first got started. So, 411 00:19:05,280 --> 00:19:06,960 I don't have a problem with the 412 00:19:06,960 --> 00:19:08,960 >> Would another restaurant be acceptable 413 00:19:08,960 --> 00:19:11,360 with the same type of advertising? 414 00:19:11,360 --> 00:19:15,919 depending on what it was if it wasn't, 415 00:19:15,919 --> 00:19:18,960 >> you know, something blatant. I 416 00:19:18,960 --> 00:19:21,440 >> Is their name blatant? 417 00:19:21,440 --> 00:19:23,919 >> It is. And I like it in this case. So, 418 00:19:23,919 --> 00:19:25,919 you're right. I'm I'm I'm not saying I'm 419 00:19:25,919 --> 00:19:29,200 right, Mike. I'm not saying I'm right. 420 00:19:29,200 --> 00:19:30,640 >> I don't I agree with what you're saying. 421 00:19:30,640 --> 00:19:32,880 I'm thinking about what comes next. What 422 00:19:32,880 --> 00:19:33,200 comes 423 00:19:33,200 --> 00:19:33,840 >> I understand. 424 00:19:33,840 --> 00:19:35,360 >> Yeah. 425 00:19:35,360 --> 00:19:37,039 >> How do How do we say yes to this and 426 00:19:37,039 --> 00:19:39,120 then have somebody else not come along? 427 00:19:39,120 --> 00:19:41,280 >> Here's the question. 428 00:19:41,280 --> 00:19:44,720 If the letters, can the letters be 429 00:19:44,720 --> 00:19:47,679 changed to red rock without just having 430 00:19:47,679 --> 00:19:50,240 a blue thing tossed over the front? 431 00:19:50,240 --> 00:19:52,960 Okay. 432 00:19:52,960 --> 00:19:57,440 >> It's either it stays up or 433 00:19:57,440 --> 00:20:01,600 >> is the I'm not spending I'm not 434 00:20:01,600 --> 00:20:05,510 >> Yeah. Is this a 435 00:20:05,520 --> 00:20:08,160 » Is this a twopiece installation? 436 00:20:08,160 --> 00:20:10,320 >> It's one 437 00:20:10,320 --> 00:20:11,679 It it looks like 438 00:20:11,679 --> 00:20:12,640 >> it looks like it has 439 00:20:12,640 --> 00:20:14,640 >> it looks like two because that's the 440 00:20:14,640 --> 00:20:16,160 shot of illuminated. 441 00:20:16,160 --> 00:20:17,840 >> So you're saying 442 00:20:17,840 --> 00:20:19,360 >> you're not changing you're not going to 443 00:20:19,360 --> 00:20:20,799 eliminate the iceberg? 444 00:20:20,799 --> 00:20:23,679 >> Well, we have to redo the whole thing 445 00:20:23,679 --> 00:20:27,600 do it all again. And then I mean the guy 446 00:20:27,600 --> 00:20:29,280 who installed it is the one who wrapped 447 00:20:29,280 --> 00:20:32,159 our inside of our building. So 448 00:20:32,159 --> 00:20:33,360 >> our dining room area 449 00:20:33,360 --> 00:20:34,480 >> like who wrapped the inside of our 450 00:20:34,480 --> 00:20:36,240 dining room. So I we just 451 00:20:36,240 --> 00:20:37,919 >> I'm not bringing him in. 452 00:20:37,919 --> 00:20:39,919 He came he comes from Salt Lake. So like 453 00:20:39,919 --> 00:20:41,760 for us it's just not going to be worth 454 00:20:41,760 --> 00:20:45,270 it. 455 00:20:45,280 --> 00:20:47,840 » And it serves it serves a second purpose 456 00:20:47,840 --> 00:20:50,320 in regard to on the other side of the 457 00:20:50,320 --> 00:20:52,960 window is our shake room and it gets 458 00:20:52,960 --> 00:20:53,840 really hot 459 00:20:53,840 --> 00:20:54,880 >> in there. So 460 00:20:54,880 --> 00:20:55,520 >> in there 461 00:20:55,520 --> 00:21:00,240 >> n I understand where they're 462 00:21:00,240 --> 00:21:03,360 again reading what 463 00:21:03,360 --> 00:21:07,039 to me it doesn't qualify as a mural. 464 00:21:07,039 --> 00:21:09,679 it qualifies as signed. Now, my question 465 00:21:09,679 --> 00:21:11,919 would be, you said they'd have to make a 466 00:21:11,919 --> 00:21:14,159 new application out and everything else, 467 00:21:14,159 --> 00:21:17,520 new fees. Could those all be waved? And 468 00:21:17,520 --> 00:21:21,520 if it's a sign, then do you have this? 469 00:21:21,520 --> 00:21:22,720 And I don't know, does it go to the 470 00:21:22,720 --> 00:21:24,720 planning committee? Is that who makes 471 00:21:24,720 --> 00:21:26,880 the final decision on signs? 472 00:21:26,880 --> 00:21:29,760 >> So, if it was determined to be a sign, 473 00:21:29,760 --> 00:21:33,280 uh, it would be approved by staff um in 474 00:21:33,280 --> 00:21:36,799 this case. So window signs um are only 475 00:21:36,799 --> 00:21:40,080 allowed to take up 25% of the total 476 00:21:40,080 --> 00:21:43,679 window area. And so this this is the 477 00:21:43,679 --> 00:21:47,200 whole thing. So I wouldn't recommend 478 00:21:47,200 --> 00:21:49,600 that they would make an application 479 00:21:49,600 --> 00:21:52,559 because we would deny it because it 480 00:21:52,559 --> 00:21:57,440 wouldn't comply. So um 481 00:21:57,440 --> 00:21:59,600 yeah, so it wouldn't comply with the 482 00:21:59,600 --> 00:22:01,200 signage standards, 483 00:22:01,200 --> 00:22:04,240 >> but but in the same sense, it doesn't 484 00:22:04,240 --> 00:22:07,840 comply to what some of the mural uh 485 00:22:07,840 --> 00:22:11,039 criteria is. For example, no advertising 486 00:22:11,039 --> 00:22:12,960 and if you stick with the strict color 487 00:22:12,960 --> 00:22:15,120 palette, it doesn't even though I don't 488 00:22:15,120 --> 00:22:16,640 have a problem with the color because I 489 00:22:16,640 --> 00:22:19,919 agree it's what actually that it looks 490 00:22:19,919 --> 00:22:23,280 like. So, we're in the same quandry that 491 00:22:23,280 --> 00:22:25,840 you would be in. I just am a little 492 00:22:25,840 --> 00:22:28,720 nervous about when I look at at the 493 00:22:28,720 --> 00:22:31,679 definition of a mural than anything else 494 00:22:31,679 --> 00:22:35,200 that comes in. Um, 495 00:22:35,200 --> 00:22:38,880 and I again consider this a sign. So, I 496 00:22:38,880 --> 00:22:40,880 mean that's just my feeling on it. And 497 00:22:40,880 --> 00:22:42,320 someone may feel you all may feel 498 00:22:42,320 --> 00:22:43,919 different, but 499 00:22:43,919 --> 00:22:47,280 >> it's it's almost like like because the 500 00:22:47,280 --> 00:22:50,480 thing is glass, we have to do something 501 00:22:50,480 --> 00:22:53,120 vastly different with it instead of just 502 00:22:53,120 --> 00:22:55,039 the hanging size out front out in front 503 00:22:55,039 --> 00:22:59,679 of the store, right? Like it feels like 504 00:22:59,679 --> 00:23:02,720 we're shoehorning it into whatever 505 00:23:02,720 --> 00:23:06,480 category we can find without actually 506 00:23:06,480 --> 00:23:08,880 thinking what like 507 00:23:08,880 --> 00:23:10,799 satellite view like what's what's the 508 00:23:10,799 --> 00:23:14,080 actual impact of this and is it helping 509 00:23:14,080 --> 00:23:17,360 or hurting on several different 510 00:23:17,360 --> 00:23:19,120 >> Can there be no exceptions to the 511 00:23:19,120 --> 00:23:21,280 signage rules? 512 00:23:21,280 --> 00:23:24,720 Does the does it does does the city not 513 00:23:24,720 --> 00:23:27,440 have the same power that we do to make a 514 00:23:27,440 --> 00:23:29,679 recommendation on something and take 515 00:23:29,679 --> 00:23:32,000 this into consideration as a unique 516 00:23:32,000 --> 00:23:35,679 thing it for signage that it is a cover. 517 00:23:35,679 --> 00:23:38,559 They're using it as a I would almost say 518 00:23:38,559 --> 00:23:40,960 a a a I don't want to say a drape, but 519 00:23:40,960 --> 00:23:43,840 like a curtain and there are some other 520 00:23:43,840 --> 00:23:50,559 implications in it that because of the the light that comes through and 521 00:23:50,559 --> 00:23:52,880 everything else. So that is is there no 522 00:23:52,880 --> 00:23:55,679 wiggle room within the city to make that 523 00:23:55,679 --> 00:23:56,320 decision? 524 00:23:56,320 --> 00:23:58,559 >> I think that they the town was correct 525 00:23:58,559 --> 00:24:00,880 in that it isn't a sign and they put it 526 00:24:00,880 --> 00:24:02,559 in front of us as a mural and I think we 527 00:24:02,559 --> 00:24:05,360 have to make a decision on that. Okay. 528 00:24:05,360 --> 00:24:12,630 So, so maybe maybe the shift is is to 529 00:24:12,640 --> 00:24:14,080 » probably solve the problem. We're trying 530 00:24:14,080 --> 00:24:16,240 to figure out this is cool, but what 531 00:24:16,240 --> 00:24:17,679 comes next? That's that's where we're 532 00:24:17,679 --> 00:24:18,880 stuck, right? 533 00:24:18,880 --> 00:24:20,880 >> So, it seems like our conversation I'm 534 00:24:20,880 --> 00:24:22,640 hearing, the only really open item we 535 00:24:22,640 --> 00:24:24,880 have is the advertising and the text. 536 00:24:24,880 --> 00:24:25,520 >> Yep. 537 00:24:25,520 --> 00:24:29,360 >> And I'm strongly against it and I 538 00:24:29,360 --> 00:24:31,440 understand the predicament it puts the 539 00:24:31,440 --> 00:24:34,640 applicant in. However, if this had come 540 00:24:34,640 --> 00:24:37,120 before the town in the right process, we 541 00:24:37,120 --> 00:24:38,400 wouldn't be here. It would have been 542 00:24:38,400 --> 00:24:41,200 solved at the application process. So, 543 00:24:41,200 --> 00:24:42,880 we're, you know, we're trying to 544 00:24:42,880 --> 00:24:48,559 retrofit something backwards and um I 545 00:24:48,559 --> 00:24:50,080 don't think we were hired to do that, 546 00:24:50,080 --> 00:24:51,200 but 547 00:24:51,200 --> 00:24:52,559 >> well, actually, we were 548 00:24:52,559 --> 00:24:55,120 >> that's what we're doing. Um this whole 549 00:24:55,120 --> 00:24:56,400 >> So, I think the discussion should be 550 00:24:56,400 --> 00:24:58,320 about the advertising and the words. If 551 00:24:58,320 --> 00:25:00,080 we can resolve that, I'm against it. 552 00:25:00,080 --> 00:25:01,600 I'll vote against it. But if I get 553 00:25:01,600 --> 00:25:03,200 overruled, fine. I'll go with the 554 00:25:03,200 --> 00:25:04,480 majority. But 555 00:25:04,480 --> 00:25:07,360 >> I I came here today wanting this to get 556 00:25:07,360 --> 00:25:09,760 approved because I think it's so great. 557 00:25:09,760 --> 00:25:14,080 I really do. And I'm so sorry. I I just 558 00:25:14,080 --> 00:25:17,120 um I I think it adds to the charm. I 559 00:25:17,120 --> 00:25:18,799 think you guys did an incredible job 560 00:25:18,799 --> 00:25:20,480 with the red, white, that everything 561 00:25:20,480 --> 00:25:23,039 that's going on down there. It makes 562 00:25:23,039 --> 00:25:25,840 downtown Springdale more charming. But I 563 00:25:25,840 --> 00:25:27,600 would have to agree with you 564 00:25:27,600 --> 00:25:30,559 >> on the text and maybe there's a creative 565 00:25:30,559 --> 00:25:32,559 way to fix it. I don't know. 566 00:25:32,559 --> 00:25:35,760 >> And I I just don't accept it as a mural. 567 00:25:35,760 --> 00:25:38,400 >> Is there something like a p we could add 568 00:25:38,400 --> 00:25:41,279 to our policies? Sort of a percentage of 569 00:25:41,279 --> 00:25:44,480 what you know it's it's not like a whole 570 00:25:44,480 --> 00:25:46,400 wall saying Coca-Cola or something. It's 571 00:25:46,400 --> 00:25:48,159 a tiny little 572 00:25:48,159 --> 00:25:49,919 >> I think it's another I think it's the 573 00:25:49,919 --> 00:25:53,120 next conversation. I think clearly 574 00:25:53,120 --> 00:25:56,240 uh the policy needs to be revisited so 575 00:25:56,240 --> 00:25:59,120 that we have a better understanding of 576 00:25:59,120 --> 00:26:01,760 what is that a window that we're not 577 00:26:01,760 --> 00:26:03,520 confusing a window covering with a 578 00:26:03,520 --> 00:26:06,480 mural. But I think let's deal what we 579 00:26:06,480 --> 00:26:09,919 have in front of us and let's make a 580 00:26:09,919 --> 00:26:12,080 motion on that 581 00:26:12,080 --> 00:26:14,320 and then it sounds like there's more 582 00:26:14,320 --> 00:26:17,120 discussion needed to refine the policy. 583 00:26:17,120 --> 00:26:20,400 I would love to use not have them pay 584 00:26:20,400 --> 00:26:23,039 for us not thinking of the details that 585 00:26:23,039 --> 00:26:26,960 would I guess I would sorry let me say 586 00:26:26,960 --> 00:26:30,390 um 587 00:26:30,400 --> 00:26:33,919 towards our fear of what comes next. We 588 00:26:33,919 --> 00:26:37,919 will address that with different 589 00:26:37,919 --> 00:26:39,840 with with more stipulation as to what 590 00:26:39,840 --> 00:26:45,120 kind of verbiage might appear on a mural 591 00:26:45,120 --> 00:26:48,400 as opposed to say, well, you came in too 592 00:26:48,400 --> 00:26:50,559 early. Sorry. You know, 593 00:26:50,559 --> 00:26:52,960 >> we did do that design adventure and we 594 00:26:52,960 --> 00:26:54,240 made them repaint, but they could 595 00:26:54,240 --> 00:26:56,400 repaint. Now we're trying to wiggle out 596 00:26:56,400 --> 00:26:58,960 of it because they can't, you know. So 597 00:26:58,960 --> 00:27:02,080 to your credit, what Mike's saying is 598 00:27:02,080 --> 00:27:04,320 Zion Adventure was able to go back and 599 00:27:04,320 --> 00:27:06,400 paint that portion of the sign with 600 00:27:06,400 --> 00:27:08,799 limited financial impact to them. They 601 00:27:08,799 --> 00:27:11,679 cannot remove the verbage from this. 602 00:27:11,679 --> 00:27:12,000 >> Yeah. 603 00:27:12,000 --> 00:27:13,679 >> So we're trying to make it work. 604 00:27:13,679 --> 00:27:16,960 >> I guess I maybe the difference I see 605 00:27:16,960 --> 00:27:24,559 maybe is that we didn't want to backtrack with the 606 00:27:24,559 --> 00:27:25,919 sign adventure mural. We were pretty 607 00:27:25,919 --> 00:27:27,440 firm about what was okay and what 608 00:27:27,440 --> 00:27:30,000 wasn't. whereas this we're kind of like 609 00:27:30,000 --> 00:27:32,480 this is a case we didn't consider and we 610 00:27:32,480 --> 00:27:34,880 would like to have that movement moving 611 00:27:34,880 --> 00:27:36,000 forward. 612 00:27:36,000 --> 00:27:36,720 >> That's true. 613 00:27:36,720 --> 00:27:39,200 >> I still think I agree. I would like to 614 00:27:39,200 --> 00:27:40,960 see it work. I don't think it qualifies 615 00:27:40,960 --> 00:27:44,320 as a mural and I think that the city has 616 00:27:44,320 --> 00:27:47,840 the opportunity to look at it and not 617 00:27:47,840 --> 00:27:51,200 charge them again an additional fee for 618 00:27:51,200 --> 00:27:53,679 uh applying for it as signage. And they 619 00:27:53,679 --> 00:27:56,640 could call it a window cover, whatever. 620 00:27:56,640 --> 00:27:59,200 and that the the city could take a look 621 00:27:59,200 --> 00:28:02,080 at it and make the decision. To me 622 00:28:02,080 --> 00:28:03,840 personally, I don't think this ever 623 00:28:03,840 --> 00:28:06,080 should have come before us because to me 624 00:28:06,080 --> 00:28:08,559 it's not a mural. I've read everything 625 00:28:08,559 --> 00:28:11,039 on murals how what murals are. It's a 626 00:28:11,039 --> 00:28:17,679 panoramic. I like it if it but it's it 627 00:28:17,679 --> 00:28:19,840 to me if I look at the I looked at the 628 00:28:19,840 --> 00:28:22,159 real strict definition of what a mural 629 00:28:22,159 --> 00:28:25,840 is, how it's applied, what materials are 630 00:28:25,840 --> 00:28:33,520 used on, etc. So I am I'm going to vote 631 00:28:33,520 --> 00:28:36,080 that it be sent back to the city for 632 00:28:36,080 --> 00:28:38,399 them to reconsider it. So that's my 633 00:28:38,399 --> 00:28:39,760 feeling. 634 00:28:39,760 --> 00:28:43,440 >> I have a question. So, I'm gonna get 635 00:28:43,440 --> 00:28:46,640 some really bad looks on this one. Um, 636 00:28:46,640 --> 00:28:49,679 we we tabled this because we all wanted 637 00:28:49,679 --> 00:28:51,279 to look at it. We've all looked at it 638 00:28:51,279 --> 00:28:53,440 and and we see that it it has an 639 00:28:53,440 --> 00:28:56,720 artistic quality to it. So within the 640 00:28:56,720 --> 00:28:59,360 art review process, 641 00:28:59,360 --> 00:29:03,840 can a section be added for um artistic 642 00:29:03,840 --> 00:29:10,240 window wraps that we create a paragraph to that and 643 00:29:10,240 --> 00:29:12,240 what we allow in it. And then we can 644 00:29:12,240 --> 00:29:14,720 have further discussion as to whether 645 00:29:14,720 --> 00:29:16,880 verbiage and what percentage of the face 646 00:29:16,880 --> 00:29:19,279 of that sign could have verbiage before 647 00:29:19,279 --> 00:29:21,440 we have somebody go strip down something 648 00:29:21,440 --> 00:29:24,320 that's not harming anybody within the 649 00:29:24,320 --> 00:29:27,200 community. I mean it's not I mean we may 650 00:29:27,200 --> 00:29:29,840 after a lot of table discussion decide 651 00:29:29,840 --> 00:29:31,520 we don't want to see window wraps or we 652 00:29:31,520 --> 00:29:33,120 do want to see window wraps and they can 653 00:29:33,120 --> 00:29:35,039 be created as a whole another thing. It 654 00:29:35,039 --> 00:29:36,399 doesn't have to be a mural. It doesn't 655 00:29:36,399 --> 00:29:38,480 have to be a photograph. It doesn't have 656 00:29:38,480 --> 00:29:41,279 to be um a painting. It doesn't have to 657 00:29:41,279 --> 00:29:44,000 be a sculpture. can be its own thing 658 00:29:44,000 --> 00:29:46,720 because I think you know this was done 659 00:29:46,720 --> 00:29:52,480 in a very artistic tasteful way and we 660 00:29:52,480 --> 00:29:55,760 can't we can't make it a mural. It has 661 00:29:55,760 --> 00:29:57,840 to go down. If we call it a mural it has 662 00:29:57,840 --> 00:30:00,799 to come down because it has it has word 663 00:30:00,799 --> 00:30:03,440 words and advertisement. It has the name 664 00:30:03,440 --> 00:30:05,120 of their business and we made Zion 665 00:30:05,120 --> 00:30:07,120 Adventure Company remove the name of 666 00:30:07,120 --> 00:30:10,240 their business. So if in the process of 667 00:30:10,240 --> 00:30:12,399 creating 668 00:30:12,399 --> 00:30:15,600 our master plan 669 00:30:15,600 --> 00:30:18,399 we have a section that talks about you 670 00:30:18,399 --> 00:30:20,559 know other art forms and what those 671 00:30:20,559 --> 00:30:23,120 other art forms could potentially be. 672 00:30:23,120 --> 00:30:25,520 >> Well I guess for me I guess I as as 673 00:30:25,520 --> 00:30:27,840 visually pleasing as this is I don't 674 00:30:27,840 --> 00:30:30,960 think we should confuse it as art. I 675 00:30:30,960 --> 00:30:32,080 think it's I think it's a window 676 00:30:32,080 --> 00:30:36,799 covering and and I think that um uh you 677 00:30:36,799 --> 00:30:39,039 know I'm kind of curious uh if if 678 00:30:39,039 --> 00:30:40,720 somebody who wants to tint their window 679 00:30:40,720 --> 00:30:44,000 because this has a transparency 680 00:30:44,000 --> 00:30:46,159 what are the limitations of someone says 681 00:30:46,159 --> 00:30:49,600 this is a window tint it just has an 682 00:30:49,600 --> 00:30:52,320 image on it. I mean is that another 683 00:30:52,320 --> 00:30:54,960 realm that I mean how does the the town 684 00:30:54,960 --> 00:30:58,559 deal with window tinting? 685 00:30:58,559 --> 00:31:02,480 >> Yeah. So I I don't believe that the code 686 00:31:02,480 --> 00:31:05,760 has anything very specific on that. Um 687 00:31:05,760 --> 00:31:10,159 what we do have is for window signs. Um 688 00:31:10,159 --> 00:31:12,880 it says so non-elilluminated permanent 689 00:31:12,880 --> 00:31:14,880 window signs may be painted on or 690 00:31:14,880 --> 00:31:18,080 otherwise displayed provided total copy 691 00:31:18,080 --> 00:31:20,159 area of such signs shall not exceed a 692 00:31:20,159 --> 00:31:24,159 maximum of 25% of the total window area 693 00:31:24,159 --> 00:31:27,760 um on which it is displayed 694 00:31:27,760 --> 00:31:31,279 or one square foot per linear front foot 695 00:31:31,279 --> 00:31:33,679 of the premises occupied whichever is 696 00:31:33,679 --> 00:31:37,840 the lesser. So, um, 697 00:31:37,840 --> 00:31:40,080 >> are there no exceptions to that? Does 698 00:31:40,080 --> 00:31:42,720 the city not have the ability to make 699 00:31:42,720 --> 00:31:45,600 exceptions to that? 700 00:31:45,600 --> 00:31:46,720 >> That's that's my question. 701 00:31:46,720 --> 00:31:48,159 >> Then you're setting the president. 702 00:31:48,159 --> 00:31:50,720 >> So, the setting the president all over 703 00:31:50,720 --> 00:31:51,279 again. 704 00:31:51,279 --> 00:31:51,760 >> So, 705 00:31:51,760 --> 00:31:54,159 >> well, but we're talking about us taking 706 00:31:54,159 --> 00:31:56,640 a look at it and changing things. Maybe 707 00:31:56,640 --> 00:31:58,399 the city needs to look at their sign 708 00:31:58,399 --> 00:32:01,760 policy and add window covering in there 709 00:32:01,760 --> 00:32:04,000 and making a change. In the meantime, 710 00:32:04,000 --> 00:32:06,480 what we're trying to do is not penalize 711 00:32:06,480 --> 00:32:08,880 the business owners for doing something 712 00:32:08,880 --> 00:32:10,960 and make and which I hearing what you 713 00:32:10,960 --> 00:32:12,640 saying, Kathy, not necessarily making 714 00:32:12,640 --> 00:32:14,640 them take it down, which is the big 715 00:32:14,640 --> 00:32:16,960 cost, not necessarily making them 716 00:32:16,960 --> 00:32:21,440 reapply for another permit of some sort 717 00:32:21,440 --> 00:32:23,840 and then going through the process. But 718 00:32:23,840 --> 00:32:27,120 in the mean in in the meantime, 719 00:32:27,120 --> 00:32:29,600 again, it might be to the point where 720 00:32:29,600 --> 00:32:31,360 the city really needs to take a look at 721 00:32:31,360 --> 00:32:33,440 this and really take take another look 722 00:32:33,440 --> 00:32:40,159 at their signage. Uh uh uh and obviously 723 00:32:40,159 --> 00:32:43,039 if we can recommend 724 00:32:43,039 --> 00:32:46,240 exceptions, well then and if I think 725 00:32:46,240 --> 00:32:48,880 always our stuff goes to the city, the 726 00:32:48,880 --> 00:32:50,559 city needs to take a good look at it. 727 00:32:50,559 --> 00:32:52,559 And Jack, you're on the city council. 728 00:32:52,559 --> 00:32:55,760 Well, I I guess Jim, I appreciate, you 729 00:32:55,760 --> 00:32:57,600 know, kind of where you're going. I I 730 00:32:57,600 --> 00:32:59,120 understand you're trying to find a way 731 00:32:59,120 --> 00:33:01,519 to make this work. Where I'm not 732 00:33:01,519 --> 00:33:03,679 comfortable with what you're suggesting 733 00:33:03,679 --> 00:33:06,399 is is knowing that this is the very type 734 00:33:06,399 --> 00:33:09,200 of thing that will come back at us where 735 00:33:09,200 --> 00:33:10,960 this could have all been resolved, and 736 00:33:10,960 --> 00:33:13,279 don't take this the wrong way, but this 737 00:33:13,279 --> 00:33:14,960 could have all been resolved if you had 738 00:33:14,960 --> 00:33:16,720 simply approached the town before you 739 00:33:16,720 --> 00:33:18,000 did did it. 740 00:33:18,000 --> 00:33:19,919 >> We were told 741 00:33:19,919 --> 00:33:24,230 to apply for 742 00:33:24,240 --> 00:33:27,360 Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, I mean, 743 00:33:27,360 --> 00:33:30,000 >> I know. I know. I know. I'm just saying, 744 00:33:30,000 --> 00:33:32,080 you know, welcome to Springdale. But, 745 00:33:32,080 --> 00:33:34,159 uh, but the thing of it is is what Jim 746 00:33:34,159 --> 00:33:36,799 is Jim Jim is trying to find a way to 747 00:33:36,799 --> 00:33:41,120 make. I'm uncomfortable with it. Is if 748 00:33:41,120 --> 00:33:43,919 we make an exception here, then then 749 00:33:43,919 --> 00:33:45,760 we're in the position of the next 750 00:33:45,760 --> 00:33:48,080 business who has a similar issue. Why 751 00:33:48,080 --> 00:33:50,559 aren't we making an exception for them? 752 00:33:50,559 --> 00:33:52,960 Yeah, it it happens all the time 753 00:33:52,960 --> 00:33:55,120 >> and it's kind of on the town that I I 754 00:33:55,120 --> 00:33:57,440 noticed catching up with my email 755 00:33:57,440 --> 00:33:59,519 yesterday that we now have a hey, are 756 00:33:59,519 --> 00:34:01,679 you thinking of putting a mural on your 757 00:34:01,679 --> 00:34:03,679 is this in in the town newsletter, which 758 00:34:03,679 --> 00:34:07,360 is like okay, good. Um, and I 759 00:34:07,360 --> 00:34:09,359 >> So, am I correct that there was nothing 760 00:34:09,359 --> 00:34:12,000 on my business application 761 00:34:12,000 --> 00:34:13,760 regarding murals? 762 00:34:13,760 --> 00:34:14,720 >> Yeah, there wouldn't have been. 763 00:34:14,720 --> 00:34:17,040 >> There was not. And I was just going to I 764 00:34:17,040 --> 00:34:18,960 was just going to guess that probably 765 00:34:18,960 --> 00:34:21,280 there will be one added moving forward. 766 00:34:21,280 --> 00:34:23,919 >> Plus, on the window coverings, I'm 767 00:34:23,919 --> 00:34:26,320 pretty sure there's plenty of windows 768 00:34:26,320 --> 00:34:31,679 out there that are covered 25% or more. 769 00:34:31,679 --> 00:34:33,599 >> There's plenty of them. 770 00:34:33,599 --> 00:34:36,800 >> So, can I I I was listening to the last 771 00:34:36,800 --> 00:34:40,480 thing that you read. Um what was the is 772 00:34:40,480 --> 00:34:42,480 the term window covering or is there a 773 00:34:42,480 --> 00:34:45,040 different term used? Um, 774 00:34:45,040 --> 00:34:46,879 >> it's called window signs. 775 00:34:46,879 --> 00:34:50,879 >> Window signs. And then this, so I I keep 776 00:34:50,879 --> 00:34:53,679 sliding back to functionality. If this 777 00:34:53,679 --> 00:34:56,240 were a curtain, would we be having this 778 00:34:56,240 --> 00:34:57,760 conversation? A curtain on the other 779 00:34:57,760 --> 00:35:00,160 side of the glass, 780 00:35:00,160 --> 00:35:00,560 >> you know? 781 00:35:00,560 --> 00:35:01,760 >> Yeah. Perhaps not. 782 00:35:01,760 --> 00:35:03,599 >> Yeah. And that's that's where I feel 783 00:35:03,599 --> 00:35:05,760 like there's just it just happened to 784 00:35:05,760 --> 00:35:07,200 touch the glass which touches the 785 00:35:07,200 --> 00:35:08,640 outside of the building and here we all 786 00:35:08,640 --> 00:35:13,200 are. And um there's back to her high 787 00:35:13,200 --> 00:35:15,920 level view of what does that whole area 788 00:35:15,920 --> 00:35:18,079 look like in terms of signage and and 789 00:35:18,079 --> 00:35:20,000 we're going to take issue here. And I 790 00:35:20,000 --> 00:35:23,280 totally get the the quandry. I totally 791 00:35:23,280 --> 00:35:25,760 get it. And and yet I think we're 792 00:35:25,760 --> 00:35:27,280 throwing the baby out with the bathwater 793 00:35:27,280 --> 00:35:30,800 here um without finding some way through 794 00:35:30,800 --> 00:35:33,839 here that also fixes the future and 795 00:35:33,839 --> 00:35:35,520 maybe doesn't kick it back to the town. 796 00:35:35,520 --> 00:35:37,280 Because I hear Jim, as much as I agree 797 00:35:37,280 --> 00:35:39,440 with you, I hear 798 00:35:39,440 --> 00:35:41,040 the town saying 799 00:35:41,040 --> 00:35:42,640 >> we do not want to do that. 800 00:35:42,640 --> 00:35:43,760 >> They're saying they don't want to make 801 00:35:43,760 --> 00:35:44,800 an exception. 802 00:35:44,800 --> 00:35:46,880 >> No, they're saying they don't want us to 803 00:35:46,880 --> 00:35:48,720 kick it back. They want us to decide 804 00:35:48,720 --> 00:35:51,839 this today and I think so do all we 805 00:35:51,839 --> 00:35:54,480 >> But I guess a question for you Nile is 806 00:35:54,480 --> 00:35:58,079 if this we deny it today as a mural. 807 00:35:58,079 --> 00:36:00,800 >> Is this can this qualify as a window 808 00:36:00,800 --> 00:36:04,950 tent? 809 00:36:04,960 --> 00:36:06,880 So 810 00:36:06,880 --> 00:36:09,040 yeah, I mean we we we'd have to look at 811 00:36:09,040 --> 00:36:12,320 as a as a window sign, which doesn't 812 00:36:12,320 --> 00:36:14,480 actually require a permit for a window 813 00:36:14,480 --> 00:36:18,550 sign. Um 814 00:36:18,560 --> 00:36:19,599 so 815 00:36:19,599 --> 00:36:24,720 >> but it's covering 25% or more. 816 00:36:24,720 --> 00:36:28,240 >> And it's not serving as an ad well it 817 00:36:28,240 --> 00:36:30,800 may double but its main purpose was to 818 00:36:30,800 --> 00:36:33,920 cover up a window. I think for just in 819 00:36:33,920 --> 00:36:36,640 the essence, you know, interest of time, 820 00:36:36,640 --> 00:36:38,240 um I think we probably need to move 821 00:36:38,240 --> 00:36:40,800 forward and treat this as a mural and 822 00:36:40,800 --> 00:36:44,480 then what happens beyond this as far as 823 00:36:44,480 --> 00:36:46,560 whether that stays or or you're just 824 00:36:46,560 --> 00:36:47,920 going to have to do something else. I 825 00:36:47,920 --> 00:36:49,040 think that's probably another 826 00:36:49,040 --> 00:36:53,990 conversation. 827 00:36:54,000 --> 00:36:56,640 So, yeah, I think there's a few things. 828 00:36:56,640 --> 00:36:59,200 Um, 829 00:36:59,200 --> 00:37:01,359 yeah, if you determine that it's not a 830 00:37:01,359 --> 00:37:05,440 sign, then we can look back on the 831 00:37:05,440 --> 00:37:08,240 take a look at the signage chapter of 832 00:37:08,240 --> 00:37:12,400 the code and see again if it complies 833 00:37:12,400 --> 00:37:14,720 with that or if there's kind of a way 834 00:37:14,720 --> 00:37:20,150 that it could stay under that. Um 835 00:37:20,160 --> 00:37:28,880 if you wanted to change the policy um we can we can look at that 836 00:37:28,880 --> 00:37:36,470 in a subsequent meeting. Um, 837 00:37:36,480 --> 00:37:38,560 so yeah, I I think there's 838 00:37:38,560 --> 00:37:41,119 >> Can we vote to say that it's not Can we 839 00:37:41,119 --> 00:37:43,520 all say we don't think this is a mural 840 00:37:43,520 --> 00:37:45,520 and kick it back to you? As much as I 841 00:37:45,520 --> 00:37:47,520 hear that you don't want to do that? 842 00:37:47,520 --> 00:37:47,760 >> Yeah. 843 00:37:47,760 --> 00:37:49,040 >> I'd like to make a motion. 844 00:37:49,040 --> 00:37:51,119 >> I I I think you could do that if if you 845 00:37:51,119 --> 00:37:53,680 felt it wasn't a mural and then we would 846 00:37:53,680 --> 00:37:55,680 work with them on the signage front. 847 00:37:55,680 --> 00:37:57,520 full motion, but I'm still not clear on 848 00:37:57,520 --> 00:38:01,200 where we um stand on the advertising and 849 00:38:01,200 --> 00:38:02,640 the verbiage. Sounds like you're against 850 00:38:02,640 --> 00:38:05,119 it. I'm against it. I don't know about 851 00:38:05,119 --> 00:38:06,960 >> I actually 852 00:38:06,960 --> 00:38:10,079 >> Well, but what if three say it's okay? 853 00:38:10,079 --> 00:38:12,160 That's I'm I'm still unclear where we 854 00:38:12,160 --> 00:38:13,839 are 855 00:38:13,839 --> 00:38:17,280 >> talking signage. Mike, I I I think what 856 00:38:17,280 --> 00:38:19,520 we're trying to do is move on with this 857 00:38:19,520 --> 00:38:22,400 because we have a heavy agenda. Uh, and 858 00:38:22,400 --> 00:38:26,000 so, uh, I agree with you on the signage. 859 00:38:26,000 --> 00:38:28,000 I think they've been pretty strict about 860 00:38:28,000 --> 00:38:33,680 signage and, uh, so I will wait and hear 861 00:38:33,680 --> 00:38:35,760 whatever motion is made. If I were to 862 00:38:35,760 --> 00:38:37,680 make a motion, I would make a motion 863 00:38:37,680 --> 00:38:40,000 that this not be considered a mural and 864 00:38:40,000 --> 00:38:45,440 that it be sent back to the the city. 865 00:38:45,440 --> 00:38:46,880 >> So, let's hear your motion. 866 00:38:46,880 --> 00:38:49,520 >> Yes, please. 867 00:38:49,520 --> 00:38:55,910 Um 868 00:38:55,920 --> 00:38:58,320 it's u 869 00:38:58,320 --> 00:39:00,560 the art review board uh conditionally 870 00:39:00,560 --> 00:39:02,079 improves 871 00:39:02,079 --> 00:39:04,720 um the mural at the Iceberg Drive in 849 872 00:39:04,720 --> 00:39:07,040 Z Park Boulevard based on the following 873 00:39:07,040 --> 00:39:09,599 findings and additional conditions 874 00:39:09,599 --> 00:39:12,800 findings. The mural does promote and 875 00:39:12,800 --> 00:39:16,000 enhance the town's village character. 876 00:39:16,000 --> 00:39:18,000 The installation is classed as a mural 877 00:39:18,000 --> 00:39:19,839 rather than a window sign and complies 878 00:39:19,839 --> 00:39:21,760 with applicable size and dimension 879 00:39:21,760 --> 00:39:26,390 standards for a mural. 880 00:39:26,400 --> 00:39:30,560 A majority of the colors do contain 881 00:39:30,560 --> 00:39:33,200 colors shown on the town's color palette 882 00:39:33,200 --> 00:39:35,119 for buildings and structures and other 883 00:39:35,119 --> 00:39:37,119 less significant colors are compatible 884 00:39:37,119 --> 00:39:39,280 with the existing and built surroundings 885 00:39:39,280 --> 00:39:42,950 of the site. 886 00:39:42,960 --> 00:39:45,359 The mural is not eliminated or backlit 887 00:39:45,359 --> 00:39:48,400 and is compliant with town policy. The 888 00:39:48,400 --> 00:39:50,320 mural contains advertising which is 889 00:39:50,320 --> 00:39:53,280 non-compliant with town policy. 890 00:39:53,280 --> 00:39:55,280 As a conditional approval, the following 891 00:39:55,280 --> 00:39:59,040 additional conditions are required. 892 00:39:59,040 --> 00:40:00,880 The applicant must continue to prevent 893 00:40:00,880 --> 00:40:02,880 any backlight transmission from inside 894 00:40:02,880 --> 00:40:04,880 the building and acknowledge that no 895 00:40:04,880 --> 00:40:06,720 illumination of the mural surface is 896 00:40:06,720 --> 00:40:08,320 permitted. 897 00:40:08,320 --> 00:40:10,240 The applicant shall remove all 898 00:40:10,240 --> 00:40:12,800 references to Zion, Iceberg, Drive-In, 899 00:40:12,800 --> 00:40:16,079 Advertising, etc. from the mural and the 900 00:40:16,079 --> 00:40:17,599 applicant must acknowledge the 901 00:40:17,599 --> 00:40:20,240 responsibility to maintain the mural per 902 00:40:20,240 --> 00:40:24,640 section 10-20-13 of town code. So that's 903 00:40:24,640 --> 00:40:28,790 strictly it's a mural. 904 00:40:28,800 --> 00:40:34,630 » So then I'd like to hear Kathy's motion. 905 00:40:34,640 --> 00:40:39,040 » I make a motion that Um, 906 00:40:39,040 --> 00:40:41,920 >> the art review. Well, this would be if I 907 00:40:41,920 --> 00:40:42,720 made a motion, 908 00:40:42,720 --> 00:40:43,520 >> right? 909 00:40:43,520 --> 00:40:44,160 >> I would make a 910 00:40:44,160 --> 00:40:46,079 >> This one's on the floor. 911 00:40:46,079 --> 00:40:47,520 >> Go ahead. 912 00:40:47,520 --> 00:40:49,280 >> I would change your motion to say 913 00:40:49,280 --> 00:40:50,720 >> you can amend it 914 00:40:50,720 --> 00:40:53,119 >> that the art review board has determined 915 00:40:53,119 --> 00:40:55,920 that this is not a mural and it's more 916 00:40:55,920 --> 00:40:58,319 of a window covering and should be 917 00:40:58,319 --> 00:41:00,720 addressed through a different agency 918 00:41:00,720 --> 00:41:02,000 with the town. 919 00:41:02,000 --> 00:41:03,280 >> I'll second that motion. 920 00:41:03,280 --> 00:41:05,119 >> Well, you can't yet because I'm just 921 00:41:05,119 --> 00:41:06,960 talking about that. But Mike doesn't 922 00:41:06,960 --> 00:41:09,280 have a second on his motion. 923 00:41:09,280 --> 00:41:11,359 >> Hasn't been voted on. 924 00:41:11,359 --> 00:41:13,599 >> Um, and you know, 925 00:41:13,599 --> 00:41:15,839 >> if it fails, then we go another route. 926 00:41:15,839 --> 00:41:19,040 That's the way it works. 927 00:41:19,040 --> 00:41:21,520 >> So, if it doesn't have a second, then it 928 00:41:21,520 --> 00:41:23,760 fails. And then you would do another 929 00:41:23,760 --> 00:41:24,800 motion, 930 00:41:24,800 --> 00:41:27,920 >> correct? It either fails or it stands 931 00:41:27,920 --> 00:41:28,800 without a second. 932 00:41:28,800 --> 00:41:29,200 >> Yeah. 933 00:41:29,200 --> 00:41:30,720 >> Although I really agree with the motion 934 00:41:30,720 --> 00:41:32,400 that you just made. 935 00:41:32,400 --> 00:41:34,960 >> But other than it's not a mural. 936 00:41:34,960 --> 00:41:36,800 >> Yeah. 937 00:41:36,800 --> 00:41:39,359 Just trying to make not a small piece. 938 00:41:39,359 --> 00:41:41,599 >> Jack, you would have to say the motion 939 00:41:41,599 --> 00:41:43,920 fails because of a second and then 940 00:41:43,920 --> 00:41:44,960 Kathy's would come up. 941 00:41:44,960 --> 00:41:46,880 >> Kathy seconded, 942 00:41:46,880 --> 00:41:48,000 I believe. 943 00:41:48,000 --> 00:41:48,400 >> No. 944 00:41:48,400 --> 00:41:49,680 >> Oh, you didn't. 945 00:41:49,680 --> 00:41:50,880 >> But he hasn't have a second. 946 00:41:50,880 --> 00:41:56,000 >> Okay. Then call for a second. 947 00:41:56,000 --> 00:41:58,000 >> There is none. 948 00:41:58,000 --> 00:42:02,800 >> So the motion that Mike made has failed. 949 00:42:02,800 --> 00:42:04,800 Do we have another motion? like to make 950 00:42:04,800 --> 00:42:07,440 a motion that the art review board has 951 00:42:07,440 --> 00:42:10,640 determined that the application from 952 00:42:10,640 --> 00:42:16,240 Iceberg with respect to the image that 953 00:42:16,240 --> 00:42:19,280 was placed on their window is not in 954 00:42:19,280 --> 00:42:21,599 fact a mural 955 00:42:21,599 --> 00:42:24,400 and is determined to be more of a window 956 00:42:24,400 --> 00:42:26,319 covering 957 00:42:26,319 --> 00:42:30,880 >> as opposed to a mural. window ad 958 00:42:30,880 --> 00:42:35,440 >> as opposed to a window ad or a mural. 959 00:42:35,440 --> 00:42:37,680 >> I second that motion. 960 00:42:37,680 --> 00:42:38,800 >> All in favor? 961 00:42:38,800 --> 00:42:41,040 >> I 962 00:42:41,040 --> 00:42:44,069 >> No, 963 00:42:44,079 --> 00:42:46,000 the motion passes too. 964 00:42:46,000 --> 00:42:49,040 >> I just Sorry, Nile. [laughter] 965 00:42:49,040 --> 00:42:51,200 >> Yours is much more 966 00:42:51,200 --> 00:42:52,960 >> trying to make it work and we're going 967 00:42:52,960 --> 00:42:54,960 to be here. I know 12 more windows 968 00:42:54,960 --> 00:42:56,880 coming. 969 00:42:56,880 --> 00:42:58,880 >> I know. So let's make sure moving 970 00:42:58,880 --> 00:42:59,920 forward we're not 971 00:42:59,920 --> 00:43:01,760 >> we identify calling 972 00:43:01,760 --> 00:43:02,960 >> well by calling this 973 00:43:02,960 --> 00:43:04,400 >> treatments murals. 974 00:43:04,400 --> 00:43:06,240 >> We they won't come here if they're not 975 00:43:06,240 --> 00:43:07,760 murals 976 00:43:07,760 --> 00:43:11,280 >> and and and also to Nyla and now I talk 977 00:43:11,280 --> 00:43:12,800 talked about this the last time we 978 00:43:12,800 --> 00:43:15,440 really need to get out to business 979 00:43:15,440 --> 00:43:18,640 owners and the community 980 00:43:18,640 --> 00:43:22,079 the mural policy. It was in the last 981 00:43:22,079 --> 00:43:23,280 newsletter. There was a 982 00:43:23,280 --> 00:43:25,839 >> It was okay. Good. Because then there 983 00:43:25,839 --> 00:43:27,680 isn't any questions because what we're 984 00:43:27,680 --> 00:43:30,240 doing is having to look at this after 985 00:43:30,240 --> 00:43:32,880 the fact. Someone does something and 986 00:43:32,880 --> 00:43:34,880 then they didn't go through the process 987 00:43:34,880 --> 00:43:37,839 and then here we are, you know, making 988 00:43:37,839 --> 00:43:40,640 decisions when if it was that if an 989 00:43:40,640 --> 00:43:42,720 application was made, we get the 990 00:43:42,720 --> 00:43:45,920 application. We we can look at it. We 991 00:43:45,920 --> 00:43:48,400 can see it. We can make any suggestions 992 00:43:48,400 --> 00:43:52,000 prior to it being done. and businesses 993 00:43:52,000 --> 00:43:53,839 and and even homeowners if they're going 994 00:43:53,839 --> 00:43:55,920 to do murals, they need to know what it 995 00:43:55,920 --> 00:43:59,680 is. So, I would again I'm glad it was uh 996 00:43:59,680 --> 00:44:03,520 published and so uh you know I just 997 00:44:03,520 --> 00:44:05,760 can't hate to see us keep going over the 998 00:44:05,760 --> 00:44:07,359 same thing over and someone does 999 00:44:07,359 --> 00:44:10,560 something and then we're So, anyway, 1000 00:44:10,560 --> 00:44:13,920 >> we're all in agreement. 1001 00:44:13,920 --> 00:44:17,200 >> Sorry you guys. 1002 00:44:17,200 --> 00:44:19,200 >> Okay. 1003 00:44:19,200 --> 00:44:26,710 Thank you for your patience. 1004 00:44:26,720 --> 00:44:28,560 » Well, thank you for coming 1005 00:44:28,560 --> 00:44:29,920 >> and again, welcome to Springdale. 1006 00:44:29,920 --> 00:44:33,119 >> Yeah, the next step here 1007 00:44:33,119 --> 00:44:34,640 with Nile now. 1008 00:44:34,640 --> 00:44:38,400 >> Yeah. So, I think um let I I will touch 1009 00:44:38,400 --> 00:44:41,359 base with you both on kind of what that 1010 00:44:41,359 --> 00:44:45,040 means and we'll go from there. 1011 00:44:45,040 --> 00:44:46,480 >> Thank you. 1012 00:44:46,480 --> 00:44:48,560 >> Have a good rest of your day. 1013 00:44:48,560 --> 00:44:51,440 Okay. Uh, so the next item on our 1014 00:44:51,440 --> 00:44:54,480 agenda, this is a non-action item. Uh, 1015 00:44:54,480 --> 00:44:56,880 this is going to be a work workshop 1016 00:44:56,880 --> 00:45:00,800 session of Springdale's draft public art 1017 00:45:00,800 --> 00:45:03,440 plan. And Nile, do you want to get us 1018 00:45:03,440 --> 00:45:04,720 started on that? 1019 00:45:04,720 --> 00:45:07,440 >> Yeah, thank you. So 1020 00:45:07,440 --> 00:45:10,400 for this uh this section of the agenda, 1021 00:45:10,400 --> 00:45:13,440 I thought it would be useful to have 1022 00:45:13,440 --> 00:45:18,560 more of a workshop session to to um yeah 1023 00:45:18,560 --> 00:45:21,760 push forward the public art plan. So 1024 00:45:21,760 --> 00:45:24,480 what I've created, it's a little bit 1025 00:45:24,480 --> 00:45:26,960 middle school art project, but bear with 1026 00:45:26,960 --> 00:45:29,680 me. Um at the back of the room, I've got 1027 00:45:29,680 --> 00:45:34,560 some um some questions for you to 1028 00:45:34,560 --> 00:45:37,440 consider. some material for you to look 1029 00:45:37,440 --> 00:45:39,920 at. I'd like to get your thoughts down 1030 00:45:39,920 --> 00:45:45,200 on paper. Um, so it's it'll be kind of a 1031 00:45:45,200 --> 00:45:46,800 just an opportunity for you to kind of 1032 00:45:46,800 --> 00:45:50,240 move around uh discuss it in a more kind 1033 00:45:50,240 --> 00:45:53,040 of flexible way. Um, so I think we're 1034 00:45:53,040 --> 00:45:55,920 going to transition into a different 1035 00:45:55,920 --> 00:45:59,200 sort of part of the meeting where the 1036 00:45:59,200 --> 00:46:01,440 we won't have a recording because it'll 1037 00:46:01,440 --> 00:46:05,040 be just a workshop session. So, if you 1038 00:46:05,040 --> 00:46:07,520 want to come over here and we can we can 1039 00:46:07,520 --> 00:46:10,160 get started on that. Once we're finished 1040 00:46:10,160 --> 00:46:15,920 with this, we'll come back to the DAS for you to conclude the 1041 00:46:15,920 --> 00:46:17,200 meeting. 1042 00:46:17,200 --> 00:46:19,280 >> Okay. We could just have a couple 1043 00:46:19,280 --> 00:46:21,839 minutes before we start. I just wanted 1044 00:46:21,839 --> 00:46:24,640 to really thank Jim for the work that 1045 00:46:24,640 --> 00:46:27,200 you've done to kickstart this. 1046 00:46:27,200 --> 00:46:29,760 >> I had a fun time doing it and artist. 1047 00:46:29,760 --> 00:46:32,079 I'm not Lisa's the artist. Jack, you're 1048 00:46:32,079 --> 00:46:36,480 the artist. I just have a fun time. So, it was 1049 00:46:36,480 --> 00:46:38,800 >> I had a good time doing it 1050 00:46:38,800 --> 00:46:42,240 >> and I you can take it. I I you're not 1051 00:46:42,240 --> 00:46:43,680 going to hurt my feelings if you go, 1052 00:46:43,680 --> 00:46:46,720 "Oh, no." But I also spoke with one of 1053 00:46:46,720 --> 00:46:49,680 my neighbors, um, and I think maybe Mike 1054 00:46:49,680 --> 00:46:51,839 knows her, uh, Linda Barnes, and she was 1055 00:46:51,839 --> 00:46:55,040 an art teacher, and, uh, she said she'd 1056 00:46:55,040 --> 00:46:57,119 help out with any artwork because 1057 00:46:57,119 --> 00:46:58,640 obviously 1058 00:46:58,640 --> 00:47:02,427 I like art, but my skills are limited, 1059 00:47:02,427 --> 00:47:03,599 [laughter] 1060 00:47:03,599 --> 00:47:06,240 to put it mildly, 1061 00:47:06,240 --> 00:47:08,319 >> but I had fun. 1062 00:47:08,319 --> 00:47:09,359 >> Thank you. 1063 00:47:09,359 --> 00:47:14,079 >> So, um, front page for me. Um, and 1064 00:47:14,079 --> 00:47:16,960 again, this is no offense. You I'd like 1065 00:47:16,960 --> 00:47:19,440 it to have a real professional look. Um, 1066 00:47:19,440 --> 00:47:21,520 I did reach out to Willa Marie Hules 1067 00:47:21,520 --> 00:47:23,599 Camp. You reached out to Linda Barnes. I 1068 00:47:23,599 --> 00:47:25,359 think there are a number of artists in 1069 00:47:25,359 --> 00:47:27,680 the community that could create 1070 00:47:27,680 --> 00:47:29,200 something that would tie into the 1071 00:47:29,200 --> 00:47:32,480 Springdale logo feel, you know, a little 1072 00:47:32,480 --> 00:47:34,319 bit more on the professional. This kind 1073 00:47:34,319 --> 00:47:36,880 of ties into some of the murals and 1074 00:47:36,880 --> 00:47:40,319 things that kids have done. Um, the 1075 00:47:40,319 --> 00:47:42,480 verbiage that you picked for the front 1076 00:47:42,480 --> 00:47:46,319 page, it's fantastic. I like the words. 1077 00:47:46,319 --> 00:47:50,480 I I I think it's great. Um, you know, 1078 00:47:50,480 --> 00:47:52,319 we're going to go do a work session. You 1079 00:47:52,319 --> 00:47:54,720 know, there were some typos or things. 1080 00:47:54,720 --> 00:47:57,920 Um, your your introduction and I went 1081 00:47:57,920 --> 00:47:59,520 back and I read the master plan for 1082 00:47:59,520 --> 00:48:01,440 Ivans again, which I think is a great 1083 00:48:01,440 --> 00:48:03,280 working document, but needs to be 1084 00:48:03,280 --> 00:48:05,920 changed. And just that beginning 1085 00:48:05,920 --> 00:48:08,160 introduction, I changed to say 1086 00:48:08,160 --> 00:48:09,760 Springdale is the gateway community to 1087 00:48:09,760 --> 00:48:12,079 Zion National Park. We welcome over 5 1088 00:48:12,079 --> 00:48:14,480 million visitors each year. While we are 1089 00:48:14,480 --> 00:48:18,079 hosts to so many visitors, we also we 1090 00:48:18,079 --> 00:48:20,160 are also a community that is home for 1091 00:48:20,160 --> 00:48:22,960 over 500 people. We are surrounded by 1092 00:48:22,960 --> 00:48:25,280 the Closian National Park, an amazing 1093 00:48:25,280 --> 00:48:28,000 natural art display in itself. In 1094 00:48:28,000 --> 00:48:29,599 addition to the natural beauty that 1095 00:48:29,599 --> 00:48:31,520 surrounds the town of Springdale, the 1096 00:48:31,520 --> 00:48:33,280 town has a long history of supporting 1097 00:48:33,280 --> 00:48:34,960 the arts through public art 1098 00:48:34,960 --> 00:48:37,119 installations. And then it goes right 1099 00:48:37,119 --> 00:48:40,160 into what Jim wrote. Public art has the 1100 00:48:40,160 --> 00:48:42,160 power to transform spaces, inspire 1101 00:48:42,160 --> 00:48:44,480 residents, attract visitors, and reflect 1102 00:48:44,480 --> 00:48:46,400 the unique character and history of our 1103 00:48:46,400 --> 00:48:48,640 town. Springdale's general plan seeks to 1104 00:48:48,640 --> 00:48:51,119 promote the town as an art community. 1105 00:48:51,119 --> 00:48:54,480 This plan identified identifies the 1106 00:48:54,480 --> 00:48:57,359 types of lo types of locations where 1107 00:48:57,359 --> 00:48:59,839 public art should be encouraged and how 1108 00:48:59,839 --> 00:49:02,319 the town will administer its art 1109 00:49:02,319 --> 00:49:03,920 program. 1110 00:49:03,920 --> 00:49:06,000 After we do what you guys have set for 1111 00:49:06,000 --> 00:49:08,240 us, I'd like to share with everybody 1112 00:49:08,240 --> 00:49:11,280 some images of art by a local artist, 1113 00:49:11,280 --> 00:49:14,079 uh, Megan Cox. she works with metal and 1114 00:49:14,079 --> 00:49:17,040 we had talked about um that kind of 1115 00:49:17,040 --> 00:49:20,160 identified that front circle coming into 1116 00:49:20,160 --> 00:49:22,160 Springdale as maybe one of the high 1117 00:49:22,160 --> 00:49:24,720 priorities for a piece of public art. I 1118 00:49:24,720 --> 00:49:26,880 had a conversation with Megan Cox. I 1119 00:49:26,880 --> 00:49:30,000 asked her to send some images because I 1120 00:49:30,000 --> 00:49:32,079 like what she does. She's been in this 1121 00:49:32,079 --> 00:49:34,000 community for decades. 1122 00:49:34,000 --> 00:49:35,680 >> She currently doesn't live in Springdale 1123 00:49:35,680 --> 00:49:37,280 just because she can't afford it and 1124 00:49:37,280 --> 00:49:39,200 shouldn't be penalized because she has 1125 00:49:39,200 --> 00:49:41,040 and she's worked here. 1126 00:49:41,040 --> 00:49:44,400 >> Um and Rock Rockville or Virgin. 1127 00:49:44,400 --> 00:49:46,160 >> She's she bounces where she can find a 1128 00:49:46,160 --> 00:49:47,040 home. 1129 00:49:47,040 --> 00:49:47,599 >> Um 1130 00:49:47,599 --> 00:49:49,599 >> and she's still a local is my point. 1131 00:49:49,599 --> 00:49:53,680 >> Yeah. And um going back to some of that 1132 00:49:53,680 --> 00:49:55,280 great public art that is along the 1133 00:49:55,280 --> 00:50:00,240 freeways in Las Vegas and looking at you 1134 00:50:00,240 --> 00:50:02,079 know the possibility of like a male 1135 00:50:02,079 --> 00:50:06,240 female to infant big horn sheep in kind 1136 00:50:06,240 --> 00:50:11,280 of that 3D metal fullcale height but not 1137 00:50:11,280 --> 00:50:15,040 full scale body. And you know, I I asked 1138 00:50:15,040 --> 00:50:17,040 her also because we're talking about an 1139 00:50:17,040 --> 00:50:20,000 annual budget of 8,000 and um I said, 1140 00:50:20,000 --> 00:50:21,920 "Is that could you produce that type of 1141 00:50:21,920 --> 00:50:22,640 art for eight?" 1142 00:50:22,640 --> 00:50:24,319 >> Well, we're hoping for more. 1143 00:50:24,319 --> 00:50:26,160 >> Yeah. And she said that would be a 1144 00:50:26,160 --> 00:50:28,400 struggle, you know, but I would love to 1145 00:50:28,400 --> 00:50:29,760 do the project. 1146 00:50:29,760 --> 00:50:31,839 >> Well, we're hoping for more moving 1147 00:50:31,839 --> 00:50:32,240 forward. 1148 00:50:32,240 --> 00:50:34,880 >> Okay. So, so let's let's deal first with 1149 00:50:34,880 --> 00:50:37,440 the meat of this plan and and I think, 1150 00:50:37,440 --> 00:50:39,280 you know, it's it's certainly coming in 1151 00:50:39,280 --> 00:50:41,680 more and more into focus and then what 1152 00:50:41,680 --> 00:50:44,240 it looks like visually. Then let's have 1153 00:50:44,240 --> 00:50:46,079 a whole conversation on that as well. 1154 00:50:46,079 --> 00:50:48,160 >> Yeah. And I think 1155 00:50:48,160 --> 00:50:50,800 I mean I like this group. I like these 1156 00:50:50,800 --> 00:50:53,520 meetings, but you know there's a better 1157 00:50:53,520 --> 00:50:55,920 faster way to do this. Um what's our 1158 00:50:55,920 --> 00:50:57,680 mission? What's our goals? You know what 1159 00:50:57,680 --> 00:50:59,200 bullets do we want in this thing? We're 1160 00:50:59,200 --> 00:51:01,599 diving down into specific pieces of art. 1161 00:51:01,599 --> 00:51:04,400 No. No, no, no. We're We're way above 1162 00:51:04,400 --> 00:51:06,160 that. I think we should be. 1163 00:51:06,160 --> 00:51:08,000 >> Well, let's let's see what he's got. 1164 00:51:08,000 --> 00:51:08,480 Yeah. 1165 00:51:08,480 --> 00:51:11,760 >> Can I do ask it? So, for all of the 1166 00:51:11,760 --> 00:51:13,599 effort that you put in here, it it 1167 00:51:13,599 --> 00:51:15,760 prompted me to seek clarity. We are 1168 00:51:15,760 --> 00:51:18,480 we're not Springdale City. I know that 1169 00:51:18,480 --> 00:51:20,400 town of Springdale or Springdale town 1170 00:51:20,400 --> 00:51:21,920 when when we're putting town of 1171 00:51:21,920 --> 00:51:23,599 Springdale. That's what I thought. So, 1172 00:51:23,599 --> 00:51:26,000 Jim, town of Springdale, not Springdale 1173 00:51:26,000 --> 00:51:26,400 City. 1174 00:51:26,400 --> 00:51:29,839 >> Okay. [laughter] Okay. 1175 00:51:29,839 --> 00:51:31,119 while you're putting in so much. We 1176 00:51:31,119 --> 00:51:34,680 wanted to go in