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5:02 p.m. and we're at the Canyon

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Community Center for the August 19th

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meeting of the Springdale Planning

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Commission. From the to town, we have

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Tom Dancy, Eugenia Akam, Nyall Connelly,

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April Ratitz, and Kendall Sagers. On the

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dis we have Jorge Hernandez, Zion

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National Park representative,

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Terry Kruski, myself, Jennifer McCulla,

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Paul Zimmerman, Katie Mson, and Kosh

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Bati, Rich Swanson, and Melissa Labour

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are out tonight. Kosh, I'd like to ask

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you to vote tonight. Thank you. Is there

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a motion to approve tonight's agenda?

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» Second.

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>> Motion by Paul, second by Terry. All in

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favor?

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>> Terry I.

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>> Jennifer I.

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>> All I.

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>> Hash I.

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>> Motion passes. Are there any general

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announcements?

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No announcements tonight.

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Does anyone have any potential conflicts

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they would like to disclose?

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Okay. The first item on the agenda is

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oath of office for Katie Mson,

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commissioner.

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Okay, raise your right hand. I state

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your name.

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>> I, Katie Mson,

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>> have been appointed to the office of the

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planning commission.

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>> have been appointed to the office of the

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planning commission. Do solemnly swear

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that I will support

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>> Do solemnly swear that I will support

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>> Obey and defend the Constitution of the

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United States and the Constitution of

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the State of Utah.

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>> Obey.

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and defend the Constitution of the

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United States and the Constitution of

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the State of Utah.

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>> And that I will discharge the duties of

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my office with fidelity.

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>> and that I will discharge the duties of

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my office with fidelity.

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Thank you and welcome Katie.

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Uh for tonight's agenda, we have one

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action item.

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Um we've received several public comment

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letters, including some documents. We've

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had a chance to review and consider all

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the information sent to us. Please keep

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in mind that we previously held a public

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hearing for this agenda item. So tonight

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there will be no public comments or

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questions from the public during this

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meeting.

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The action item is 50 Zion Park

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Boulevard design development review

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parking lot extension. Mr. Luke Wilson

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requested design development re review

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for the approval of an expansion of the

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parking lot at 50 Zion Park Boulevard

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and a staff contact is Nile Connelly and

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he will be presenting.

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>> Thank you.

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So, as you said, this is an agenda. This

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agenda item is for a design development

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review application uh from Mr. Luke

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Wilson to expand his parking lot at 50 Z

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Park Boulevard.

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The application has been reviewed by the

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commission uh during meetings on the

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June 3rd and July 1st. At the July 1st

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meeting, the commission requested Mr.

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Wilson provide a geotechnical report.

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In his latest submission, uh Mr. Wilson

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has provided a letter explaining the

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reasons why he believes the report is

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unwarranted in this case. H in addition

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to that, he's also provided

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supplementary information on surface

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water drainage which was also requested.

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Uh there have been a number of uh

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written public comments uh which you've

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received and so I just want to draw

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attention to that.

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Um, just before before you dive into it,

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I think it'd be useful to run over the

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uh just a timeline of kind of how we've

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gotten up to this point. Um, so in

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November 2025,

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uh, Mr. Wilson carried out grading on

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the property without a permit. Uh, the

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town issued a stop work order and the

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work ceased. Uh, Mr. Wilson then applied

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for a grading permit to bring the

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property into compliance.

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Um during this process, the town and

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both the town and Mr. Wilson reviewed uh

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some topographic information that we had

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from the original application back in

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2016

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uh which showed

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kind of most of the area outside of the

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parking lot was 30% slope or greater.

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um

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that that topographic survey was

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generated by a computer model and so it

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wasn't site verified. And so when we

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inspected the site, it was clear that

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there were areas um that had been shown

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as 30% slope on on that

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survey that weren't actually as steep as were shown. Um,

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it was also the the areas that had been

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excavated.

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Um, it was possible to kind of

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extrapolate from the the ground level to

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where the cut was to see that they

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weren't as steep as as that original

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survey had shown. Um,

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with that in mind, the the town still

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required Mr. Wilson to provide

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verification from an engineer. Um so

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that was provided by Rosenberg

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engineering. So there was that grading

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plan which was included in the pack. Um

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and that showed that the grading had

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largely avoided the 30% slopes. Um and

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that the 30% slopes were there weren't

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as many as in the previous one. It was

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um Rosenberg also provided a letter

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confirming the safety of the excavation

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and the rock wall. Um so on that basis

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the grading permit was approved at the

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time.

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Um following that uh Mr. Wilson poured

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the asphalt to create the new spaces. H

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that wasn't included in the grading

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permit. So the town required Mr. Wilson

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to stop and fence those off until a

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design development review was approved.

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Um, and so that application has been

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made and that's that's what you've been

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considering this evening.

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Um

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so just as a recommendation for your

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discussion tonight,

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I'd recommend that first off the

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commission um makes a determination on

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whether the standards for parking lots

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have been met. Um you've discussed that

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previously. Um, but it would be good to maybe come to a determination on

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that. And then once that's done, um, I'd

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recommend the commission can move on to

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discussion on Mr. Wilson's letter and

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this question over the geotechnical

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report.

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Um, some some additional points on the

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geotechnical report. So the code doesn't

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automatically require a geotechnical

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report in this case for either the

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grading permit or the DDR. Um so parking

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lots are not listed in kind of the the

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automatically required

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um

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for a geotechnical report. However, the

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code does allow for the director of

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community development to require one if

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uh if it's determined that the site or

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soil conditions warrant it and it can be

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required with any land use entitlement.

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So, it's it's not only applicable to

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grading permits, it can be applied to

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any permit.

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The grading permit has already been

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approved. Um so if the um planning

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commission determines that the

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geotechnical report is a requirement, it

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should be connected to the the design

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development review rather than kind of

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retrospectively applied to the grading

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permit because that's already been

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approved. Um,

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so

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that's probably a lot of information,

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but uh I'd be happy to answer any

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questions that you have on any of that.

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And I know Mr. Wilson will be also happy

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to answer any questions you have.

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Are there any questions for Nile?

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» Mr. Wilson, would you like to present?

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Luke Wilson. I'm the applicant. And

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maybe for Katie's sake, I'll just say a

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couple of things. Um, and I'm just going

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to make a few statements and h ask a few

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questions and I'm going to sit down

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because I think we've talked about this

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to death. So, Katie, I I own the parking

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lot just around the corner. After I

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bought it, I I identified that the back

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area was certainly not 30%. I'm I'm a

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contractor and an excavator, right? And

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so I thought, here's some usable space.

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I can do some things with some

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landscaping, some additional parking,

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whatever. So I I started grading that

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and I didn't have a permit and and I

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realized that was the wrong thing to do.

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I've done similar work like that on

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other properties. I've explained this to

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the commission before. I did it recently

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on a couple little homes I have across

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the street from my other parking lot.

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And I was very much thanked for that,

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for the rock balls, the

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beautifification, and now Kyla can

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landscape her yard and it doesn't get

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flooded. It didn't get flooded in the

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last event. So anyway, I did that. They

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said, "Hey, hey, hey, you can't." And

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I'm I'm assuming that that was probably

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because of the proximity to the

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landslide that you have you have to get

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all the stuff that that to do this. So

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we stopped and it took a month or may I

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don't know, maybe it was two months, but

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um I had the engineers come in. Um Tom

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and I had a couple conversations on site

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about what was required. He made it very clear to me because I I actually

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divulged to him that I eventually would love to build a couple of living

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units there. And he goes, "Okay, for

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what we're doing this this this

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engineering is what we need. If you do

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living units, you will for sure need to

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pass the rigorous geologic hazards

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ordinance." And that may he goes, "It

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could be very very difficult here." And

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I said, "I acknowledge that whatever."

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Anyway, I gave them whatever that they

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needed and they gave me the grading

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permit, I did the work. Um,

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and after after I did the work and added

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the spaces in the back

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and to Nile's credit, actually, just to

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be really honest, I anticipated adding

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spaces in the back left corner and a

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little bit in the middle, but there was

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more room in that in that ramp area that

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was not in the 30% grading that I was

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able to make some parking spaces out of.

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So, I think they were surprised to see

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more parking spaces than we had

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initially talked about. And the upper

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level would have this landscaped area

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where there's a public lounge and where

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people can kind of just sit down and

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enjoy the view. Anyway, the the

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uh oh, I just lost my train of thought.

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Anyway, we did all of that. Oh, and I

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received an email from Nile and and it

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was at that point that Niles put me on

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notice and I have the email here and he

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said, "Hey, you know what? like um an

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expansion of an existing use triggers a

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lot of things and and I just thought I

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have this parking lot. It's a parking

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lot. I can here here's here's uh a legal

273
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grading. I can add some spaces. This is

274
00:12:23,600 --> 00:12:25,600
he he goes no no no because you've added

275
00:12:25,600 --> 00:12:27,200
spaces. We now have new rules about

276
00:12:27,200 --> 00:12:28,959
parking lots and you have to have this

277
00:12:28,959 --> 00:12:32,560
and this and this and this and this and those things are what's on your

278
00:12:32,560 --> 00:12:35,600
plan, right? It's like a It's like a a

279
00:12:35,600 --> 00:12:38,959
bathroom or a toilet and a business and

280
00:12:38,959 --> 00:12:41,040
trash and recycling facilities. Some of

281
00:12:41,040 --> 00:12:42,800
the difficulties we ran into there are

282
00:12:42,800 --> 00:12:45,360
that there is no sewer on or near that

283
00:12:45,360 --> 00:12:47,680
property. So, we ended up putting in a

284
00:12:47,680 --> 00:12:50,000
proposal for a self-contained unit which

285
00:12:50,000 --> 00:12:51,440
has maintenance costs to it, but it

286
00:12:51,440 --> 00:12:52,800
would be self-contained and completely

287
00:12:52,800 --> 00:12:54,218
screened so they don't look ugly

288
00:12:54,218 --> 00:12:55,519
[snorts] and a couple of the other

289
00:12:55,519 --> 00:12:56,800
things that they've any Any anyway, it's

290
00:12:56,800 --> 00:12:59,200
all on your plan. And following those

291
00:12:59,200 --> 00:13:01,440
directives, we've landed here. It seems

292
00:13:01,440 --> 00:13:04,399
that and I'm very aware um that there

293
00:13:04,399 --> 00:13:05,920
are people in town who are sensitive to

294
00:13:05,920 --> 00:13:07,760
the slide and the work that I've done.

295
00:13:07,760 --> 00:13:10,959
There's been all kinds of um comments

296
00:13:10,959 --> 00:13:13,920
that I've read and and and

297
00:13:13,920 --> 00:13:15,920
Gil and Tom are respected members of the

298
00:13:15,920 --> 00:13:17,040
community. I don't have anything against

299
00:13:17,040 --> 00:13:18,560
them taking interest in anything we're

300
00:13:18,560 --> 00:13:21,200
doing. I think the recent letters that

301
00:13:21,200 --> 00:13:24,000
they've sent keep moving us back to this

302
00:13:24,000 --> 00:13:25,920
excavating landslide thing. And that's

303
00:13:25,920 --> 00:13:28,320
not even this meeting. This meeting is

304
00:13:28,320 --> 00:13:30,399
we have these additional stalls. I

305
00:13:30,399 --> 00:13:32,000
didn't know it triggered the need for

306
00:13:32,000 --> 00:13:34,160
these new requirements, but it did. And

307
00:13:34,160 --> 00:13:35,440
now I'm trying to comply with those

308
00:13:35,440 --> 00:13:39,440
requirements per his email. Um the the

309
00:13:39,440 --> 00:13:41,920
30% thing, I'm just going to say this

310
00:13:41,920 --> 00:13:43,440
because I know that the format of these

311
00:13:43,440 --> 00:13:45,360
meetings often don't invite me back to

312
00:13:45,360 --> 00:13:48,720
clarify anything.

313
00:13:48,720 --> 00:13:51,440
I am happy and I would love and I would

314
00:13:51,440 --> 00:13:55,360
ask if any of you including Gil or Tom

315
00:13:55,360 --> 00:13:57,680
or anybody wants to go to the property

316
00:13:57,680 --> 00:13:59,360
and I can show them where I have

317
00:13:59,360 --> 00:14:02,160
excavated. The dirt is gone but the

318
00:14:02,160 --> 00:14:04,639
limits of excavation are very clear. You

319
00:14:04,639 --> 00:14:06,160
can see where we stopped to where we

320
00:14:06,160 --> 00:14:08,399
started and slope calculation is a

321
00:14:08,399 --> 00:14:12,880
product of dividing rise by run.

322
00:14:12,880 --> 00:14:15,120
The closest steepest section that we

323
00:14:15,120 --> 00:14:18,480
have in the upper area is 26 feet wide.

324
00:14:18,480 --> 00:14:20,320
The rock wall is supposed to be four

325
00:14:20,320 --> 00:14:22,320
feet. It varies from three and a half to

326
00:14:22,320 --> 00:14:24,639
about four 4 foot 10. It's their rocks.

327
00:14:24,639 --> 00:14:26,240
They're not totally uniform. But if I go

328
00:14:26,240 --> 00:14:30,560
26 to 4 foot 10, it's like an 18% slope.

329
00:14:30,560 --> 00:14:32,560
And I'm happy to take anyone up there

330
00:14:32,560 --> 00:14:34,480
and show them where the old parking lot

331
00:14:34,480 --> 00:14:39,680
was, where the new cut is. I mean, it's even though even though the dirt's

332
00:14:39,680 --> 00:14:42,639
been moved, it's very very easy to see

333
00:14:42,639 --> 00:14:44,240
where the limits of excavation are and

334
00:14:44,240 --> 00:14:46,160
it's really easy to pull a string or or

335
00:14:46,160 --> 00:14:47,839
to to do the math and calculate the

336
00:14:47,839 --> 00:14:49,920
slope. Anyway, it's been confirmed that

337
00:14:49,920 --> 00:14:53,360
there were 10 to 20% slopes and and I'm

338
00:14:53,360 --> 00:14:56,240
very aware and good catch by Gil because

339
00:14:56,240 --> 00:14:59,120
that original topography map, it had

340
00:14:59,120 --> 00:15:00,639
lots of areas of that property showing

341
00:15:00,639 --> 00:15:03,199
us 30 or more that that just aren't. And

342
00:15:03,199 --> 00:15:04,320
they weren't even close. It's not like

343
00:15:04,320 --> 00:15:14,079
they were 28. They were like 18 19 and and Tom and I and the engineers and Nile. Um

344
00:15:14,079 --> 00:15:19,519
we've we've pulled measurements and and all over that property. My engineers

345
00:15:19,519 --> 00:15:22,320
shot that by the foot like by the foot

346
00:15:22,320 --> 00:15:24,160
and and and

347
00:15:24,160 --> 00:15:26,560
um verified all of that. So I just want

348
00:15:26,560 --> 00:15:28,240
to make sure that I'm trying to be

349
00:15:28,240 --> 00:15:30,000
respectful of Gil's concern because when

350
00:15:30,000 --> 00:15:31,440
you read that original topography, you

351
00:15:31,440 --> 00:15:34,320
go, "Holy this is 30% or more.

352
00:15:34,320 --> 00:15:36,240
It's right there. You can see it, right?

353
00:15:36,240 --> 00:15:38,800
But it just wasn't accurate. And that's

354
00:15:38,800 --> 00:15:40,480
not common. I get it. But it it just

355
00:15:40,480 --> 00:15:42,480
wasn't accurate. The actual dirt was not

356
00:15:42,480 --> 00:15:48,320
30%. So, um, as I read the town's code,

357
00:15:48,320 --> 00:15:52,790
um, I I I I

358
00:15:52,800 --> 00:16:01,199
find little to no reason or or and very little ability to

359
00:16:01,199 --> 00:16:04,800
request a geologic hazards investigation

360
00:16:04,800 --> 00:16:06,800
for what's been done. I look at the

361
00:16:06,800 --> 00:16:10,560
prescribed uses that trigger that. I

362
00:16:10,560 --> 00:16:12,720
find none of them.

363
00:16:12,720 --> 00:16:14,560
And I hope that's what the town

364
00:16:14,560 --> 00:16:17,120
understands at this point from me. I I

365
00:16:17,120 --> 00:16:19,120
just do want to reiterate we have a

366
00:16:19,120 --> 00:16:20,800
legal grading permit. I know this seems

367
00:16:20,800 --> 00:16:22,240
to be the crux of the letters that have

368
00:16:22,240 --> 00:16:24,240
been sent in. I stayed within the bounds

369
00:16:24,240 --> 00:16:27,600
of that grading permit. Um none of that

370
00:16:27,600 --> 00:16:30,320
is in the 30% slope. I know that's been

371
00:16:30,320 --> 00:16:32,880
the sensitivity.

372
00:16:32,880 --> 00:16:35,440
And um I haven't been asked for more

373
00:16:35,440 --> 00:16:37,360
than the things that I've supplied. I

374
00:16:37,360 --> 00:16:38,639
actually haven't been asked for more

375
00:16:38,639 --> 00:16:40,000
things like you need to this and that

376
00:16:40,000 --> 00:16:41,120
other than this little plan that's

377
00:16:41,120 --> 00:16:43,199
before you to try to comply with those

378
00:16:43,199 --> 00:16:45,440
requirements that were triggered by the

379
00:16:45,440 --> 00:16:47,440
additional stalls that were put in that

380
00:16:47,440 --> 00:16:49,600
Nile said you need this this and this.

381
00:16:49,600 --> 00:16:52,480
So that's what I'm trying to do.

382
00:16:52,480 --> 00:16:53,759
I don't have anything else to say unless

383
00:16:53,759 --> 00:16:54,800
you have questions for me.

384
00:16:54,800 --> 00:16:59,269
>> Does anyone have any questions?

385
00:16:59,279 --> 00:17:01,839
» Okay, we can move into planning

386
00:17:01,839 --> 00:17:07,429
commission discussion now. Thank you.

387
00:17:07,439 --> 00:17:14,390
I can start. Um

388
00:17:14,400 --> 00:17:16,400
after pouring over all the information

389
00:17:16,400 --> 00:17:18,959
that we've received,

390
00:17:18,959 --> 00:17:21,120
um having a lot of time to consider this

391
00:17:21,120 --> 00:17:23,679
over the past couple of months, it's

392
00:17:23,679 --> 00:17:26,319
very clear to me that we are talking

393
00:17:26,319 --> 00:17:30,320
about uh two different things here. the

394
00:17:30,320 --> 00:17:35,520
parking lot which does have a permit and

395
00:17:35,520 --> 00:17:38,720
really understanding that that is

396
00:17:38,720 --> 00:17:42,000
permitted and that that is a done deal.

397
00:17:42,000 --> 00:17:45,440
So, um, a lot of the concern has been

398
00:17:45,440 --> 00:17:48,320
around the, um, parking lot and the

399
00:17:48,320 --> 00:17:51,120
grading for the extra parking spaces.

400
00:17:51,120 --> 00:17:54,080
And I'm at a place now where I

401
00:17:54,080 --> 00:17:56,559
understand that our focus needs to be

402
00:17:56,559 --> 00:17:58,640
just on the requirements for the parking

403
00:17:58,640 --> 00:18:02,230
lot.

404
00:18:02,240 --> 00:18:04,080
» Are you saying that when you say the

405
00:18:04,080 --> 00:18:05,440
parking lot is permitted, are you saying

406
00:18:05,440 --> 00:18:06,559
the original parking lot is

407
00:18:06,559 --> 00:18:09,120
>> the the grading the grading permit for

408
00:18:09,120 --> 00:18:11,679
the expansion?

409
00:18:11,679 --> 00:18:14,240
Um,

410
00:18:14,240 --> 00:18:17,120
I would say I was had all the concerns

411
00:18:17,120 --> 00:18:20,640
about the grading permit. Um, but have a

412
00:18:20,640 --> 00:18:23,280
better understanding now that the

413
00:18:23,280 --> 00:18:27,039
grading permit is done.

414
00:18:27,039 --> 00:18:31,840
If there were to be a a report required,

415
00:18:31,840 --> 00:18:35,679
it would be in relationship to the DDR

416
00:18:35,679 --> 00:18:39,190
request.

417
00:18:39,200 --> 00:18:40,720
Go ahead.

418
00:18:40,720 --> 00:18:44,720
Okay. Um, I'll start with as the staff

419
00:18:44,720 --> 00:18:46,559
suggested the other items.

420
00:18:46,559 --> 00:18:47,120
>> Yes.

421
00:18:47,120 --> 00:18:48,960
>> Um,

422
00:18:48,960 --> 00:18:51,840
personally, as I've looked at this, um,

423
00:18:51,840 --> 00:18:54,559
I see I feel like the self-contained

424
00:18:54,559 --> 00:18:57,200
restroom, trash receptacles, the rusted

425
00:18:57,200 --> 00:19:00,559
corrugated screen all seem to comply and

426
00:19:00,559 --> 00:19:02,080
I think he's done a good job of bringing

427
00:19:02,080 --> 00:19:04,960
those in. Um, the acute angle parking

428
00:19:04,960 --> 00:19:06,880
spaces have been eliminated. So, we've

429
00:19:06,880 --> 00:19:08,400
gotten rid of that problem of the

430
00:19:08,400 --> 00:19:12,240
directional flow of the traffic. Um, and

431
00:19:12,240 --> 00:19:14,160
the landscapecaping,

432
00:19:14,160 --> 00:19:16,960
I believe, meets the requirements. Um,

433
00:19:16,960 --> 00:19:18,880
with I think in the past we've discussed

434
00:19:18,880 --> 00:19:22,559
that the green items on the on the wall

435
00:19:22,559 --> 00:19:25,200
will suffice given the structure of the

436
00:19:25,200 --> 00:19:27,919
parking lot versus a 4 foot space. So,

437
00:19:27,919 --> 00:19:31,840
again, I feel good about that. Um,

438
00:19:31,840 --> 00:19:34,480
and then, um,

439
00:19:34,480 --> 00:19:35,760
and let's see what else. So, and then

440
00:19:35,760 --> 00:19:37,919
the surface water drainage analysis has

441
00:19:37,919 --> 00:19:41,039
been done. The update looks good. The

442
00:19:41,039 --> 00:19:43,200
engineers reviewed it, happy with it.

443
00:19:43,200 --> 00:19:45,440
So, I think all of those things seem to

444
00:19:45,440 --> 00:19:48,320
have met the need. To me, that leaves

445
00:19:48,320 --> 00:19:50,240
two things to discuss. One is the

446
00:19:50,240 --> 00:19:52,320
commercial use

447
00:19:52,320 --> 00:19:54,000
and the other is the geotechnical

448
00:19:54,000 --> 00:19:57,600
report. Um, so the commercial use, and

449
00:19:57,600 --> 00:19:59,520
I've been looking at this in in more

450
00:19:59,520 --> 00:20:02,559
detail and thinking it through. Um, if

451
00:20:02,559 --> 00:20:05,440
you look at the ordinance, it says that

452
00:20:05,440 --> 00:20:08,480
a commercial use must be developed on

453
00:20:08,480 --> 00:20:10,640
the same property.

454
00:20:10,640 --> 00:20:13,039
And if you look up the definition of

455
00:20:13,039 --> 00:20:16,960
development in the ordinances in 1022,

456
00:20:16,960 --> 00:20:19,120
um, it's to carry out any building

457
00:20:19,120 --> 00:20:21,919
activity or clearing of land as an

458
00:20:21,919 --> 00:20:24,880
adjunct to of construction.

459
00:20:24,880 --> 00:20:28,799
Um and so

460
00:20:28,799 --> 00:20:30,960
reading it very concisely to what it

461
00:20:30,960 --> 00:20:34,080
says, a mobile business doesn't meet

462
00:20:34,080 --> 00:20:36,240
that requirement. A mobile business is

463
00:20:36,240 --> 00:20:39,280
not developed on the property.

464
00:20:39,280 --> 00:20:42,720
Um and it's nor is it clearing of land

465
00:20:42,720 --> 00:20:44,640
adjunct to the construction of such a

466
00:20:44,640 --> 00:20:48,240
thing. Um I think in the mobile business

467
00:20:48,240 --> 00:20:52,880
area based on what the um ordinances say

468
00:20:52,880 --> 00:20:55,760
we should require that it is a structure

469
00:20:55,760 --> 00:20:58,400
that is developed on the property

470
00:20:58,400 --> 00:21:01,440
because that is what the ordinance says.

471
00:21:01,440 --> 00:21:04,000
Um it doesn't say anything about size.

472
00:21:04,000 --> 00:21:06,480
So we're all familiar with you know the

473
00:21:06,480 --> 00:21:08,159
small little coffee shops you see in

474
00:21:08,159 --> 00:21:11,120
parking lots that might be 50 or 75

475
00:21:11,120 --> 00:21:12,320
square feet or something like that. So,

476
00:21:12,320 --> 00:21:14,240
I don't think it has to be big, but the

477
00:21:14,240 --> 00:21:15,919
ordinance clearly says it has to be

478
00:21:15,919 --> 00:21:19,360
developed on the property. Um, so in my

479
00:21:19,360 --> 00:21:22,720
mind, I think that doesn't meet the

480
00:21:22,720 --> 00:21:24,480
requirements that a mobile business

481
00:21:24,480 --> 00:21:25,840
doesn't meet the requirements because

482
00:21:25,840 --> 00:21:28,480
it's not developed on the property. I

483
00:21:28,480 --> 00:21:30,799
suspect and I believe that the intent

484
00:21:30,799 --> 00:21:33,919
was that let's say certainly Mr. Wilson

485
00:21:33,919 --> 00:21:35,679
recently bought the property potentially

486
00:21:35,679 --> 00:21:37,360
could sell it in the future that a

487
00:21:37,360 --> 00:21:39,440
future property owner would receive the

488
00:21:39,440 --> 00:21:42,400
property with the commercial the

489
00:21:42,400 --> 00:21:44,000
commercial business attached to the

490
00:21:44,000 --> 00:21:46,000
property. So I think that's sort of the

491
00:21:46,000 --> 00:21:48,799
intent that it goes with the property.

492
00:21:48,799 --> 00:21:51,520
Um so I would say that that is one area

493
00:21:51,520 --> 00:21:54,240
that we would should discuss.

494
00:21:54,240 --> 00:21:59,679
Um, in terms of the geotechnical report,

495
00:21:59,679 --> 00:22:02,880
I went through the whole 15, you know,

496
00:22:02,880 --> 00:22:08,320
15F section and um

497
00:22:08,320 --> 00:22:11,840
I'm on the fence because I see things

498
00:22:11,840 --> 00:22:14,880
that indicate that it's applied to

499
00:22:14,880 --> 00:22:16,880
structures, buildings, buildable area.

500
00:22:16,880 --> 00:22:19,120
These are things that you see in there.

501
00:22:19,120 --> 00:22:24,799
Um I see that you know the DCD can ask

502
00:22:24,799 --> 00:22:28,080
for the you know the report under and we

503
00:22:28,080 --> 00:22:30,640
have requested the DCD ask the report

504
00:22:30,640 --> 00:22:32,320
the applicant has refused with dus

505
00:22:32,320 --> 00:22:34,480
justifications so I think we've gone

506
00:22:34,480 --> 00:22:36,799
through what our responsibility is to

507
00:22:36,799 --> 00:22:42,240
that um and the last thing I'll say

508
00:22:42,240 --> 00:22:49,909
about this is section 1015F59

509
00:22:49,919 --> 00:22:53,360
um which um we may remember was talking

510
00:22:53,360 --> 00:22:56,400
about um excavation

511
00:22:56,400 --> 00:22:59,919
near 30% slopes and property lines. This

512
00:22:59,919 --> 00:23:01,280
was something I think that was actually

513
00:23:01,280 --> 00:23:02,559
discussed in the planning commission a

514
00:23:02,559 --> 00:23:05,919
year ago or a little over a year ago.

515
00:23:05,919 --> 00:23:08,880
Um and it it requires that the

516
00:23:08,880 --> 00:23:13,600
geotechnical report include a um a slope

517
00:23:13,600 --> 00:23:19,360
stability section if if a excavation

518
00:23:19,360 --> 00:23:23,120
occurs less let's see less than twice

519
00:23:23,120 --> 00:23:25,440
the de if the if the distance between

520
00:23:25,440 --> 00:23:27,840
the 30% slope and the excavation is less

521
00:23:27,840 --> 00:23:31,600
than twice the depth of the excavation.

522
00:23:31,600 --> 00:23:33,679
And looking at the drawings, that

523
00:23:33,679 --> 00:23:37,600
appears to be the case here. Um, but

524
00:23:37,600 --> 00:23:41,200
this section is a subsection of 15F that

525
00:23:41,200 --> 00:23:43,200
starts with this list we've looked at

526
00:23:43,200 --> 00:23:45,200
several times.

527
00:23:45,200 --> 00:23:48,240
So it so

528
00:23:48,240 --> 00:23:51,840
it clearly triggers that that paragraph

529
00:23:51,840 --> 00:23:55,360
C9, but the paragraph A doesn't

530
00:23:55,360 --> 00:24:00,400
necessarily trigger a report. So,

531
00:24:00,400 --> 00:24:02,799
I'm a little bit on the fence on that.

532
00:24:02,799 --> 00:24:06,080
So, having said all that, I'm curious

533
00:24:06,080 --> 00:24:07,520
what people think about the commercial

534
00:24:07,520 --> 00:24:09,600
use and I'd be very curious what other

535
00:24:09,600 --> 00:24:10,960
people think about the geotechnical

536
00:24:10,960 --> 00:24:12,880
report. I'd like to hear other thoughts

537
00:24:12,880 --> 00:24:15,520
on that. I I think, you know, in

538
00:24:15,520 --> 00:24:17,200
general, I'm in agreement with you on

539
00:24:17,200 --> 00:24:20,640
the commercial use aspect of it. um you

540
00:24:20,640 --> 00:24:22,799
know that it needs it needs to be a

541
00:24:22,799 --> 00:24:27,520
structure but um separately from that um

542
00:24:27,520 --> 00:24:29,840
one of the things that I've been looking

543
00:24:29,840 --> 00:24:31,840
about thinking about and looking at is

544
00:24:31,840 --> 00:24:34,640
that if you look at the 15F it says you

545
00:24:34,640 --> 00:24:36,960
know a geotech reports required for any

546
00:24:36,960 --> 00:24:39,760
structure intended for human occupancy.

547
00:24:39,760 --> 00:24:42,640
So if we're going to put a commercial

548
00:24:42,640 --> 00:24:44,880
use there's going to be a person in

549
00:24:44,880 --> 00:24:47,760
there to operate it. Therefore it's uh

550
00:24:47,760 --> 00:24:50,000
human occupancy. So that triggers it.

551
00:24:50,000 --> 00:24:51,360
The other thing though, even if it

552
00:24:51,360 --> 00:24:54,799
wasn't a structure, if it was just a a

553
00:24:54,799 --> 00:24:56,640
food truck for example, if it's a food

554
00:24:56,640 --> 00:24:59,039
truck that's there for a extended period

555
00:24:59,039 --> 00:25:01,840
of time, is that's also in my mind a

556
00:25:01,840 --> 00:25:03,360
triggering event given the human

557
00:25:03,360 --> 00:25:05,840
occupancy of that space. So

558
00:25:05,840 --> 00:25:09,520
>> So my understanding is human occupancy

559
00:25:09,520 --> 00:25:11,279
um

560
00:25:11,279 --> 00:25:13,120
requires

561
00:25:13,120 --> 00:25:16,480
like staying there overnight. It's not

562
00:25:16,480 --> 00:25:20,799
just gather businesses. Is that correct?

563
00:25:20,799 --> 00:25:24,720
>> I'm just uh scanning the um definitions

564
00:25:24,720 --> 00:25:27,520
to see do we get any

565
00:25:27,520 --> 00:25:31,397
guidance there.

566
00:25:31,407 --> 00:26:07,110
[snorts]

567
00:26:07,120 --> 00:26:10,000
Yeah, just from a quick scan of the

568
00:26:10,000 --> 00:26:11,840
definitions in this chapter and then the

569
00:26:11,840 --> 00:26:14,159
general definitions, I'm I'm not seeing

570
00:26:14,159 --> 00:26:16,320
anything specifically that talks that

571
00:26:16,320 --> 00:26:18,799
defines human occupancy.

572
00:26:18,799 --> 00:26:21,830
Um

573
00:26:21,840 --> 00:26:25,269
however

574
00:26:25,279 --> 00:26:27,039
um

575
00:26:27,039 --> 00:26:30,400
in 1015F3

576
00:26:30,400 --> 00:26:32,400
C

577
00:26:32,400 --> 00:26:35,039
it says the regulations in this chapter

578
00:26:35,039 --> 00:26:37,919
that being the geologic hazard chapter

579
00:26:37,919 --> 00:26:41,039
do not apply to the following. Uh so one

580
00:26:41,039 --> 00:26:43,520
a detached accessory building that's not

581
00:26:43,520 --> 00:26:46,320
designed for human occupancy

582
00:26:46,320 --> 00:26:49,279
or two the remodeling of an existing

583
00:26:49,279 --> 00:26:55,510
structure designed for human occupancy.

584
00:26:55,520 --> 00:27:00,880
Okay, Tom's come to the rescue. Okay, so

585
00:27:00,880 --> 00:27:03,679
structure designed for human occupancy.

586
00:27:03,679 --> 00:27:06,480
There is a definition. any residential

587
00:27:06,480 --> 00:27:08,960
dwelling or other structure used or

588
00:27:08,960 --> 00:27:11,919
intended for supporting or sheltering

589
00:27:11,919 --> 00:27:15,039
any use or occupancy by humans or

590
00:27:15,039 --> 00:27:16,720
businesses.

591
00:27:16,720 --> 00:27:19,520
Includes all risk category 2 structures

592
00:27:19,520 --> 00:27:21,919
as defined in the currently adopted

593
00:27:21,919 --> 00:27:24,559
international building code but does not

594
00:27:24,559 --> 00:27:26,080
include an accessory building that

595
00:27:26,080 --> 00:27:28,720
houses no additional no accessory

596
00:27:28,720 --> 00:27:33,830
dwelling unit or business.

597
00:27:33,840 --> 00:27:37,679
So any residential dwelling or any other

598
00:27:37,679 --> 00:27:39,279
structure used and intended for

599
00:27:39,279 --> 00:27:42,559
supporting or sheltering any use or

600
00:27:42,559 --> 00:27:46,960
occupancy by humans or businesses.

601
00:27:46,960 --> 00:27:50,159
>> Occupancy by businesses is included.

602
00:27:50,159 --> 00:28:20,070
>> It is included in that definition. Yeah.

603
00:28:20,080 --> 00:28:23,520
So it seems

604
00:28:23,520 --> 00:28:28,000
it is intended for human occupancy,

605
00:28:28,000 --> 00:28:30,640
>> right? A a commercial use,

606
00:28:30,640 --> 00:28:31,679
>> right?

607
00:28:31,679 --> 00:28:33,840
>> Um would be intended for human

608
00:28:33,840 --> 00:28:37,600
occupancy. Um,

609
00:28:37,600 --> 00:28:39,440
yeah.

610
00:28:39,440 --> 00:28:41,039
Um, were you gonna

611
00:28:41,039 --> 00:28:45,990
>> I just have questions. Um,

612
00:28:46,000 --> 00:28:48,080
forgive me for being a little slow on

613
00:28:48,080 --> 00:28:49,279
this, but

614
00:28:49,279 --> 00:28:51,120
>> Oh, you indicated we're not talking

615
00:28:51,120 --> 00:28:53,120
about occupancy at this point. We're

616
00:28:53,120 --> 00:28:54,880
talking about

617
00:28:54,880 --> 00:28:56,720
um just the parking lot that you're

618
00:28:56,720 --> 00:28:58,240
trying to get.

619
00:28:58,240 --> 00:28:59,760
>> Is that correct or am I

620
00:28:59,760 --> 00:29:02,799
>> Well, we we moved to we discussed the

621
00:29:02,799 --> 00:29:05,120
commercial use requirement. Yeah.

622
00:29:05,120 --> 00:29:06,799
>> And we're going down the path of well,

623
00:29:06,799 --> 00:29:08,960
if the commercial use requirement

624
00:29:08,960 --> 00:29:12,559
requires a structure that is developed

625
00:29:12,559 --> 00:29:13,919
on the property

626
00:29:13,919 --> 00:29:14,559
>> Uhhuh.

627
00:29:14,559 --> 00:29:18,159
>> and that structure is a coffee kiosk.

628
00:29:18,159 --> 00:29:18,559
>> Uhhuh.

629
00:29:18,559 --> 00:29:20,080
>> Then there would likely be a person

630
00:29:20,080 --> 00:29:23,520
inside the coffee kiosk to serve coffee.

631
00:29:23,520 --> 00:29:25,760
>> Is that what the intention is?

632
00:29:25,760 --> 00:29:28,399
>> Well, he hasn't. No. The expansion of

633
00:29:28,399 --> 00:29:30,640
the parking lot requires that there be

634
00:29:30,640 --> 00:29:32,320
an integrated

635
00:29:32,320 --> 00:29:32,960
>> right

636
00:29:32,960 --> 00:29:34,640
>> with the new permits

637
00:29:34,640 --> 00:29:35,600
>> for the new

638
00:29:35,600 --> 00:29:38,399
>> well. Right. Right. So in between the

639
00:29:38,399 --> 00:29:40,799
time the initial parking lot was created

640
00:29:40,799 --> 00:29:43,600
back in 2016 and this expansion of the

641
00:29:43,600 --> 00:29:46,240
parking lot occurred the ordinances

642
00:29:46,240 --> 00:29:48,960
changed to require this additional

643
00:29:48,960 --> 00:29:51,520
commercial use related to parking lots.

644
00:29:51,520 --> 00:29:53,120
So, the original parking lot did not

645
00:29:53,120 --> 00:29:55,679
require a commercial use, but the

646
00:29:55,679 --> 00:29:57,840
expansion triggered

647
00:29:57,840 --> 00:29:59,840
the new requirement for a commercial

648
00:29:59,840 --> 00:30:01,360
use.

649
00:30:01,360 --> 00:30:04,880
The applicant proposed a mobile coffee

650
00:30:04,880 --> 00:30:06,480
truck

651
00:30:06,480 --> 00:30:08,399
>> for that.

652
00:30:08,399 --> 00:30:08,880
>> Got it.

653
00:30:08,880 --> 00:30:10,480
>> And in that's where we said looking at

654
00:30:10,480 --> 00:30:12,960
it, a mobile coffee truck is not

655
00:30:12,960 --> 00:30:14,960
developed on the property. So, in

656
00:30:14,960 --> 00:30:16,240
layman's terms, we're just trying to

657
00:30:16,240 --> 00:30:18,080
make sure it's safe enough if people are

658
00:30:18,080 --> 00:30:19,760
going to be there

659
00:30:19,760 --> 00:30:20,799
>> with a coffee shop

660
00:30:20,799 --> 00:30:22,960
>> when there is a structure

661
00:30:22,960 --> 00:30:25,440
that a human is right. Um, the

662
00:30:25,440 --> 00:30:28,240
ordinances do not call for it when

663
00:30:28,240 --> 00:30:30,960
there's not a human occupancy structure.

664
00:30:30,960 --> 00:30:33,039
>> Got it. Okay. Thank you.

665
00:30:33,039 --> 00:30:34,000
>> Thank you. Perfect.

666
00:30:34,000 --> 00:30:36,240
>> Except for this paragraph we've been

667
00:30:36,240 --> 00:30:38,399
talking about where we where the DCD

668
00:30:38,399 --> 00:30:42,240
could require it for special conditions.

669
00:30:42,240 --> 00:30:43,919
So

670
00:30:43,919 --> 00:30:44,799
>> okay

671
00:30:44,799 --> 00:30:54,000
>> just for the purposes of uh what will get done today

672
00:30:54,000 --> 00:30:58,159
um I guess my question is

673
00:30:58,159 --> 00:31:00,080
he needs to be compliant with the new

674
00:31:00,080 --> 00:31:01,679
ordinances

675
00:31:01,679 --> 00:31:05,200
because that the time has passed.

676
00:31:05,200 --> 00:31:09,200
Uh, and the new ordinances

677
00:31:09,200 --> 00:31:11,840
um are just making sure that now that

678
00:31:11,840 --> 00:31:13,919
they're because whether there are cars

679
00:31:13,919 --> 00:31:15,760
or people there, maybe that's a zoom out

680
00:31:15,760 --> 00:31:18,080
question for not this this meeting

681
00:31:18,080 --> 00:31:20,960
today, but um

682
00:31:20,960 --> 00:31:23,440
but it's just more complex, but but the

683
00:31:23,440 --> 00:31:27,440
intent overall is mostly parking lot

684
00:31:27,440 --> 00:31:29,679
with a mobile coffee shop. Is this

685
00:31:29,679 --> 00:31:30,000
correct?

686
00:31:30,000 --> 00:31:31,600
>> That was that is the proposal by the

687
00:31:31,600 --> 00:31:32,240
applicant.

688
00:31:32,240 --> 00:31:34,880
>> Okay. Just just clarifying the facts.

689
00:31:34,880 --> 00:31:45,909
Thank you.

690
00:31:45,919 --> 00:31:48,080
» So when it comes to the geotechnical

691
00:31:48,080 --> 00:31:52,310
report,

692
00:31:52,320 --> 00:31:57,110
it seems like it's a requirement

693
00:31:57,120 --> 00:31:59,840
based on

694
00:31:59,840 --> 00:32:02,799
the definition we just got about occup

695
00:32:02,799 --> 00:32:04,399
based upon

696
00:32:04,399 --> 00:32:06,000
commercial use requirement,

697
00:32:06,000 --> 00:32:06,880
>> right?

698
00:32:06,880 --> 00:32:10,240
>> That that would be what triggers

699
00:32:10,240 --> 00:32:12,000
the geotechnical report, right? Because

700
00:32:12,000 --> 00:32:14,799
it requires a structure for human

701
00:32:14,799 --> 00:32:22,310
occupancy. Um

702
00:32:22,320 --> 00:32:25,279
and so yeah, so so that if we go with

703
00:32:25,279 --> 00:32:26,799
that, if we decide that a mobile

704
00:32:26,799 --> 00:32:28,720
business is not meet the requirements,

705
00:32:28,720 --> 00:32:31,679
which seems to me pretty clearly spilled

706
00:32:31,679 --> 00:32:35,519
out that a mobile business doesn't um it

707
00:32:35,519 --> 00:32:37,679
doesn't the applicant might propose

708
00:32:37,679 --> 00:32:39,200
something

709
00:32:39,200 --> 00:32:42,799
that doesn't have human in it.

710
00:32:42,799 --> 00:32:45,039
I don't know. they might be able to go

711
00:32:45,039 --> 00:32:46,320
with something that doesn't have a human

712
00:32:46,320 --> 00:32:49,360
in it. Maybe the human stays outside and

713
00:32:49,360 --> 00:32:51,600
maybe that I you know so I don't want to

714
00:32:51,600 --> 00:32:54,799
necessarily say that they have to have

715
00:32:54,799 --> 00:32:57,360
the permit for that depending upon what

716
00:32:57,360 --> 00:33:01,600
the proposal is for the commercial

717
00:33:01,600 --> 00:33:13,110
product on site.

718
00:33:13,120 --> 00:33:14,000
Do you have any thoughts?

719
00:33:14,000 --> 00:33:15,679
>> Kosh

720
00:33:15,679 --> 00:33:18,399
at this point.

721
00:33:18,399 --> 00:33:20,640
>> Can can I make just one clarification

722
00:33:20,640 --> 00:33:23,519
just to make sure that the the count

723
00:33:23,519 --> 00:33:25,919
is aware this isn't you know um this is

724
00:33:25,919 --> 00:33:27,440
just a clarification.

725
00:33:27,440 --> 00:33:28,880
>> The the requirement that you're

726
00:33:28,880 --> 00:33:30,080
discussing right now is the requirement

727
00:33:30,080 --> 00:33:33,039
for a geotechnical investigation.

728
00:33:33,039 --> 00:33:34,320
>> Right.

729
00:33:34,320 --> 00:33:36,080
>> Much of the concern that's been brought

730
00:33:36,080 --> 00:33:38,399
up has been over a geologic hazard

731
00:33:38,399 --> 00:33:40,000
investigation.

732
00:33:40,000 --> 00:33:42,399
So the requirement to be clear is for a

733
00:33:42,399 --> 00:33:45,279
geotechnical investigation

734
00:33:45,279 --> 00:33:46,960
based on the results one one of the

735
00:33:46,960 --> 00:33:47,919
things that's required in that

736
00:33:47,919 --> 00:33:50,320
geotechnical investigation is an

737
00:33:50,320 --> 00:33:53,679
analysis of the hazards on the site and

738
00:33:53,679 --> 00:33:55,279
based on the result of that initial

739
00:33:55,279 --> 00:33:59,279
sight specific um analysis of of

740
00:33:59,279 --> 00:34:02,159
geohhazards a full-blown geohhazard

741
00:34:02,159 --> 00:34:05,840
investigation may or may not be required

742
00:34:05,840 --> 00:34:07,760
so I just want to make sure that you

743
00:34:07,760 --> 00:34:09,119
that that you understand that the

744
00:34:09,119 --> 00:34:10,240
audience understands that everyone

745
00:34:10,240 --> 00:34:11,359
understands that the requirement that

746
00:34:11,359 --> 00:34:12,879
you're discussing is the requirement for

747
00:34:12,879 --> 00:34:15,919
a geotechnical investigation,

748
00:34:15,919 --> 00:34:18,800
not necessarily a geologic hazard

749
00:34:18,800 --> 00:34:20,960
investigation, although the geological

750
00:34:20,960 --> 00:34:24,240
hazard investigation could follow

751
00:34:24,240 --> 00:34:25,280
depending on the results of the

752
00:34:25,280 --> 00:34:27,359
geotechnical investigation. Does that is

753
00:34:27,359 --> 00:34:29,599
everybody clear understand the the

754
00:34:29,599 --> 00:34:30,720
nuance there?

755
00:34:30,720 --> 00:34:32,240
>> I want to thank you for that. I had read

756
00:34:32,240 --> 00:34:33,599
through that and I was actually going to

757
00:34:33,599 --> 00:34:36,639
ask about the difference because the

758
00:34:36,639 --> 00:34:39,040
ordinances implied there was some

759
00:34:39,040 --> 00:34:39,599
difference.

760
00:34:39,599 --> 00:34:41,619
>> The geotechnical investigation has is

761
00:34:41,619 --> 00:34:43,520
[clears throat] is required of every

762
00:34:43,520 --> 00:34:46,000
development everywhere in Springdale and

763
00:34:46,000 --> 00:34:49,599
it primarily looks at what is the the

764
00:34:49,599 --> 00:34:51,440
subgrade

765
00:34:51,440 --> 00:34:54,800
preparation for a foundation. What what kind of soils are you building on,

766
00:34:54,800 --> 00:34:55,919
right? And and how are you going to have

767
00:34:55,919 --> 00:34:57,920
to prepare a subgrade for a structure?

768
00:34:57,920 --> 00:34:59,359
That's the primary purpose of the

769
00:34:59,359 --> 00:35:01,839
geotechnical investigation. for

770
00:35:01,839 --> 00:35:05,280
properties that are within a uh a

771
00:35:05,280 --> 00:35:07,440
geohhazard area that's been identified

772
00:35:07,440 --> 00:35:10,800
on our on the geohhazard maps. One

773
00:35:10,800 --> 00:35:12,800
component of that geotechnical

774
00:35:12,800 --> 00:35:15,280
investigation is for the geotechnical

775
00:35:15,280 --> 00:35:18,640
engineer to say, "Hey, this property is

776
00:35:18,640 --> 00:35:21,359
in the geohhazard zone. Does this

777
00:35:21,359 --> 00:35:24,320
property warrant because it's in a

778
00:35:24,320 --> 00:35:27,839
geohhazard zone does does based on on

779
00:35:27,839 --> 00:35:29,760
looking at the site specifics looking at

780
00:35:29,760 --> 00:35:31,599
the area

781
00:35:31,599 --> 00:35:34,800
does this site warrant additional

782
00:35:34,800 --> 00:35:38,160
geohhazard investigation giving the the

783
00:35:38,160 --> 00:35:40,160
sight specific

784
00:35:40,160 --> 00:35:42,560
uh character of the of the property that

785
00:35:42,560 --> 00:35:45,839
the geotechnical engineer

786
00:35:45,839 --> 00:35:49,680
um observes. Right? If if that if the

787
00:35:49,680 --> 00:35:51,599
answer to that question is yes, then you

788
00:35:51,599 --> 00:35:52,800
go through with the full-blown

789
00:35:52,800 --> 00:35:54,640
geohhazard investigation. And the

790
00:35:54,640 --> 00:35:56,560
purpose of the geohhazard investigation

791
00:35:56,560 --> 00:35:58,560
is to look at geologic hazards. So no

792
00:35:58,560 --> 00:36:00,320
longer we looking at the subgrade

793
00:36:00,320 --> 00:36:02,640
preparation to support a structure. Then

794
00:36:02,640 --> 00:36:04,000
we're looking at landslides and

795
00:36:04,000 --> 00:36:05,920
rockfalls and all those things that have

796
00:36:05,920 --> 00:36:10,079
been the primary source of concern with the project. So, I just want to

797
00:36:10,079 --> 00:36:11,680
make sure that that everyone is clear

798
00:36:11,680 --> 00:36:14,079
about what the process is, what the

799
00:36:14,079 --> 00:36:15,520
requirement in the code is, and how that

800
00:36:15,520 --> 00:36:16,720
works because it's a little bit more

801
00:36:16,720 --> 00:36:19,200
nuanced than than just saying, "Oh, you

802
00:36:19,200 --> 00:36:21,200
have to do a geohhazard investigation."

803
00:36:21,200 --> 00:36:24,240
>> And so, what we requested last time was

804
00:36:24,240 --> 00:36:26,320
geotechnical report. So, that's

805
00:36:26,320 --> 00:36:27,359
appropriate.

806
00:36:27,359 --> 00:36:29,359
>> That's the first step. Absolutely.

807
00:36:29,359 --> 00:36:31,040
That's the first step. And again,

808
00:36:31,040 --> 00:36:32,640
depending on what comes out of that

809
00:36:32,640 --> 00:36:35,200
geotechnical report, a geohhazard

810
00:36:35,200 --> 00:36:38,480
investigation might or might not follow.

811
00:36:38,480 --> 00:36:41,760
geotechnical report focuses on the

812
00:36:41,760 --> 00:36:44,400
foundation of the structure itself.

813
00:36:44,400 --> 00:36:48,400
>> That's correct. Yeah. That's why

814
00:36:48,400 --> 00:36:51,359
for say something like a grading permit,

815
00:36:51,359 --> 00:36:54,320
a geotechnical investigation typically

816
00:36:54,320 --> 00:36:56,480
isn't required because just with grading

817
00:36:56,480 --> 00:36:59,839
there is no structure. There's no development and the

818
00:36:59,839 --> 00:37:01,680
geotechnical investigation primarily is

819
00:37:01,680 --> 00:37:04,079
looking at the subgrade investigation.

820
00:37:04,079 --> 00:37:06,720
Um, so that's why then when you come to

821
00:37:06,720 --> 00:37:09,200
the DDR and and if you're looking at

822
00:37:09,200 --> 00:37:10,640
well, we're not just talking about

823
00:37:10,640 --> 00:37:12,079
grading, we're talking about structures

824
00:37:12,079 --> 00:37:14,480
or or things like that, then a

825
00:37:14,480 --> 00:37:17,280
geotechnical investigation

826
00:37:17,280 --> 00:37:19,520
is required and potentially a geohhazard

827
00:37:19,520 --> 00:37:22,800
investigation. So for the DDR

828
00:37:22,800 --> 00:37:26,079
um for the commercial use, I'm looking

829
00:37:26,079 --> 00:37:29,599
at it now like that is a checkbox since

830
00:37:29,599 --> 00:37:36,230
by definition it's a place of occupancy.

831
00:37:36,240 --> 00:37:38,000
» So I would I would refer you back to the

832
00:37:38,000 --> 00:37:40,000
applicability section in the geohhazard

833
00:37:40,000 --> 00:37:41,680
ordinance.

834
00:37:41,680 --> 00:37:42,160
Um

835
00:37:42,160 --> 00:37:46,480
>> right. Which which number four

836
00:37:46,480 --> 00:37:49,040
um

837
00:37:49,040 --> 00:37:51,119
the occupancy

838
00:37:51,119 --> 00:37:53,520
requirement

839
00:37:53,520 --> 00:37:55,440
any structure intended for human

840
00:37:55,440 --> 00:37:57,040
occupancy.

841
00:37:57,040 --> 00:37:58,480
>> Correct. That's one of the triggering

842
00:37:58,480 --> 00:38:01,040
factors for a geo geotechnical investig.

843
00:38:01,040 --> 00:38:01,520
>> Right.

844
00:38:01,520 --> 00:38:04,320
>> Correct. For the for the primary the

845
00:38:04,320 --> 00:38:06,560
first report. Correct.

846
00:38:06,560 --> 00:38:08,880
>> So considering this discussion we're

847
00:38:08,880 --> 00:38:11,680
having

848
00:38:11,680 --> 00:38:13,599
It just doesn't seem like there's even

849
00:38:13,599 --> 00:38:16,480
any gray area there like that. That is

850
00:38:16,480 --> 00:38:19,839
something that just is in the ordinances

851
00:38:19,839 --> 00:38:22,960
of having to be done.

852
00:38:22,960 --> 00:38:24,800
>> That would be a supported finding.

853
00:38:24,800 --> 00:38:28,310
>> Yeah.

854
00:38:28,320 --> 00:38:34,000
And so I mean given that information

855
00:38:34,000 --> 00:38:37,280
to me that's an item as a planning

856
00:38:37,280 --> 00:38:41,040
commission that we just have to

857
00:38:41,040 --> 00:38:49,589
you review that it's being met.

858
00:38:49,599 --> 00:38:52,160
» Yeah. I I I tend to think that that the

859
00:38:52,160 --> 00:38:55,280
commercial use the structure leads to

860
00:38:55,280 --> 00:38:56,720
the investigation. I'm actually very

861
00:38:56,720 --> 00:38:58,320
thankful for Tom for the explanation

862
00:38:58,320 --> 00:38:59,359
because that was

863
00:38:59,359 --> 00:39:03,520
>> I kind of came to the conclusion that must be the situation by reading

864
00:39:03,520 --> 00:39:05,359
the ordinances, but I really didn't know

865
00:39:05,359 --> 00:39:06,640
for sure.

866
00:39:06,640 --> 00:39:10,480
>> Um, and in fact, for me, it creates a

867
00:39:10,480 --> 00:39:12,400
situation where the where we've had an

868
00:39:12,400 --> 00:39:14,960
engineer look at

869
00:39:14,960 --> 00:39:17,200
the condition and the engineer decides

870
00:39:17,200 --> 00:39:19,520
whether there's more that's needed or

871
00:39:19,520 --> 00:39:22,640
not because we're not experts to decide

872
00:39:22,640 --> 00:39:25,680
whether there's more needed or not.

873
00:39:25,680 --> 00:39:29,760
Um, and to me that sort of meets it

874
00:39:29,760 --> 00:39:33,520
meets what I felt I was concerned about.

875
00:39:33,520 --> 00:39:35,520
Um, because if you look at the letter

876
00:39:35,520 --> 00:39:38,480
that that was sent in uh, December or

877
00:39:38,480 --> 00:39:42,640
January, um, talks about that the

878
00:39:42,640 --> 00:39:44,720
construction or the excavation and the

879
00:39:44,720 --> 00:39:47,119
wall construction were safe for the

880
00:39:47,119 --> 00:39:49,359
people doing the construction and other

881
00:39:49,359 --> 00:39:51,119
properties at the time of the

882
00:39:51,119 --> 00:39:53,200
construction. But it clearly says in

883
00:39:53,200 --> 00:39:55,359
that last sentence that it is not slope

884
00:39:55,359 --> 00:39:58,160
stability or any or any future related.

885
00:39:58,160 --> 00:40:00,880
So we didn't have anything that said

886
00:40:00,880 --> 00:40:02,720
other than during construction it was

887
00:40:02,720 --> 00:40:04,400
okay

888
00:40:04,400 --> 00:40:06,880
and sort of left me open in that sense.

889
00:40:06,880 --> 00:40:11,680
So personally I feel that we need a

890
00:40:11,680 --> 00:40:13,359
commercial use that's developed on the

891
00:40:13,359 --> 00:40:16,320
property and that commercial use then

892
00:40:16,320 --> 00:40:19,839
indicates this preliminary or this first

893
00:40:19,839 --> 00:40:22,800
level investigation and we would see

894
00:40:22,800 --> 00:40:31,510
what the engineer says at that point.

895
00:40:31,520 --> 00:40:33,839
I I I what I'm hearing is that and I

896
00:40:33,839 --> 00:40:35,839
didn't know this until today. The mobile

897
00:40:35,839 --> 00:40:38,079
business is not qualifying for business.

898
00:40:38,079 --> 00:40:39,520
We didn't we didn't know that until

899
00:40:39,520 --> 00:40:44,160
today and uh business must be developed,

900
00:40:44,160 --> 00:40:47,040
built and and that's what the

901
00:40:47,040 --> 00:40:50,720
geotechnical investigation would be for.

902
00:40:50,720 --> 00:40:52,400
So, as it is today with the mobile

903
00:40:52,400 --> 00:40:53,760
business, this will be declined because

904
00:40:53,760 --> 00:40:55,200
the mobile business doesn't meet the

905
00:40:55,200 --> 00:40:57,119
requirement, right, of a business and so

906
00:40:57,119 --> 00:40:58,480
we're just going to decline it. Totally

907
00:40:58,480 --> 00:41:01,119
fine. My question is I I mean, you can

908
00:41:01,119 --> 00:41:03,359
see I'm trying to comply with with

909
00:41:03,359 --> 00:41:05,040
whatever these requirements are and

910
00:41:05,040 --> 00:41:06,800
there's a landslide and mo you guys

911
00:41:06,800 --> 00:41:08,160
don't like people human occupancy,

912
00:41:08,160 --> 00:41:10,000
whatever. If I had a business like some

913
00:41:10,000 --> 00:41:11,359
kind of a kiosk business, this is just

914
00:41:11,359 --> 00:41:13,920
hypothetical business. If I had a like a

915
00:41:13,920 --> 00:41:16,400
kiosk of sorts that dispensed something

916
00:41:16,400 --> 00:41:18,880
that people used to hike or you know

917
00:41:18,880 --> 00:41:21,760
gosh sunglasses or bandanas or I'm not

918
00:41:21,760 --> 00:41:23,119
trying to get that corny but I'm just

919
00:41:23,119 --> 00:41:25,760
making an example that wasn't human

920
00:41:25,760 --> 00:41:28,400
occupied.

921
00:41:28,400 --> 00:41:31,430
Um,

922
00:41:31,440 --> 00:41:32,960
I'm thinking of the building that's in

923
00:41:32,960 --> 00:41:35,839
the center of my business already

924
00:41:35,839 --> 00:41:38,240
that's about 10 by 10 and I'm sure I

925
00:41:38,240 --> 00:41:40,000
could come up with some really helpful,

926
00:41:40,000 --> 00:41:41,680
useful things that people could use to

927
00:41:41,680 --> 00:41:42,880
go there that wouldn't be human

928
00:41:42,880 --> 00:41:44,560
occupied.

929
00:41:44,560 --> 00:41:46,400
I is the only reason the geotechnical

930
00:41:46,400 --> 00:41:48,160
thing potentially being required is

931
00:41:48,160 --> 00:41:49,680
because I would have to quote unquote

932
00:41:49,680 --> 00:41:51,839
develop a business and build a building.

933
00:41:51,839 --> 00:41:53,680
Is that

934
00:41:53,680 --> 00:41:54,560
>> because that building

935
00:41:54,560 --> 00:41:56,000
>> the commercial use would have to be

936
00:41:56,000 --> 00:41:58,240
developed on the property. Yeah, because

937
00:41:58,240 --> 00:41:59,680
that building's already there. And I get

938
00:41:59,680 --> 00:42:01,520
it that that that I'm not coming to you

939
00:42:01,520 --> 00:42:03,599
today with the application for it. But

940
00:42:03,599 --> 00:42:05,040
now that I know that the mobile business

941
00:42:05,040 --> 00:42:06,160
doesn't work and I didn't know that

942
00:42:06,160 --> 00:42:07,599
until today,

943
00:42:07,599 --> 00:42:09,440
>> I might think in that direction for a

944
00:42:09,440 --> 00:42:11,280
nonoccupied

945
00:42:11,280 --> 00:42:13,040
business just so that the risk isn't

946
00:42:13,040 --> 00:42:14,720
even there, right? There's not even

947
00:42:14,720 --> 00:42:16,560
anybody there.

948
00:42:16,560 --> 00:42:18,319
>> But we haven't fully discussed that part

949
00:42:18,319 --> 00:42:19,119
of it yet, though.

950
00:42:19,119 --> 00:42:20,774
>> Okay. I just Well, I just was trying

951
00:42:20,774 --> 00:42:21,680
[clears throat] to think. But but the

952
00:42:21,680 --> 00:42:23,440
trigger is that there would be a

953
00:42:23,440 --> 00:42:25,440
building built, not a mobile business.

954
00:42:25,440 --> 00:42:26,720
And the building built would need a

955
00:42:26,720 --> 00:42:28,560
geotechnical report like any building

956
00:42:28,560 --> 00:42:29,119
built,

957
00:42:29,119 --> 00:42:29,440
>> right?

958
00:42:29,440 --> 00:42:32,480
>> And then and but if I could avoid that

959
00:42:32,480 --> 00:42:33,359
uh [clears throat] a building to be

960
00:42:33,359 --> 00:42:35,200
built and human occupancy, it might

961
00:42:35,200 --> 00:42:37,680
simplify this whole thing.

962
00:42:37,680 --> 00:42:39,040
>> But but for today, I get it. You're

963
00:42:39,040 --> 00:42:40,400
going to decline it because of the whole

964
00:42:40,400 --> 00:42:41,200
>> It comes down to

965
00:42:41,200 --> 00:42:41,760
>> Thank you.

966
00:42:41,760 --> 00:42:44,079
>> business developed on the property and

967
00:42:44,079 --> 00:42:47,280
what constitutes a business developed on

968
00:42:47,280 --> 00:42:48,880
the property.

969
00:42:48,880 --> 00:42:55,670
>> Um

970
00:42:55,680 --> 00:42:57,920
I don't I would say from our perspective

971
00:42:57,920 --> 00:43:00,000
that

972
00:43:00,000 --> 00:43:03,440
well let's assume so we've tabled this a

973
00:43:03,440 --> 00:43:05,200
bunch of times it feels to me maybe we

974
00:43:05,200 --> 00:43:07,359
approve or deny

975
00:43:07,359 --> 00:43:10,640
it sounds like maybe we go towards deny

976
00:43:10,640 --> 00:43:12,319
potentially we make two findings the

977
00:43:12,319 --> 00:43:14,720
commercial use finding and a finding

978
00:43:14,720 --> 00:43:17,680
that the commercial use is likely to

979
00:43:17,680 --> 00:43:19,119
lead to the requirement for a

980
00:43:19,119 --> 00:43:21,520
geotechnical

981
00:43:21,520 --> 00:43:24,640
report a whatever the name of that one.

982
00:43:24,640 --> 00:43:29,670
That's the first one. Um

983
00:43:29,680 --> 00:43:32,079
I don't know until we see what is

984
00:43:32,079 --> 00:43:36,000
proposed by the applicant. Um

985
00:43:36,000 --> 00:43:39,280
whether that can meet the requirement

986
00:43:39,280 --> 00:43:42,480
for a for a commercial use developed on

987
00:43:42,480 --> 00:43:45,520
the property but not have human

988
00:43:45,520 --> 00:43:47,200
occupancy.

989
00:43:47,200 --> 00:43:50,000
Um, but I don't want to say that I know

990
00:43:50,000 --> 00:43:51,440
ahead of time,

991
00:43:51,440 --> 00:43:53,040
>> right,

992
00:43:53,040 --> 00:43:57,040
>> that that is possible or impossible.

993
00:43:57,040 --> 00:43:58,720
Any

994
00:43:58,720 --> 00:43:59,920
thoughts about that?

995
00:43:59,920 --> 00:44:01,839
>> I don't feel like I h I had that same

996
00:44:01,839 --> 00:44:04,000
thought though. Actually, my mind went

997
00:44:04,000 --> 00:44:09,440
to like does some kind of vending thing

998
00:44:09,440 --> 00:44:12,720
constitute commercial activity? Um, so I

999
00:44:12,720 --> 00:44:15,440
would definitely have to research

1000
00:44:15,440 --> 00:44:16,079
>> research

1001
00:44:16,079 --> 00:44:18,400
>> and get more information on that.

1002
00:44:18,400 --> 00:44:21,440
>> I didn't find anything

1003
00:44:21,440 --> 00:44:23,280
right off hand when I looked into that,

1004
00:44:23,280 --> 00:44:26,880
but definitely would need much more

1005
00:44:26,880 --> 00:44:31,589
exploring.

1006
00:44:31,599 --> 00:44:34,319
» Any other?

1007
00:44:34,319 --> 00:44:36,160
>> Yeah, you'd have to submit

1008
00:44:36,160 --> 00:44:38,480
>> even know what it is. Yeah.

1009
00:44:38,480 --> 00:44:44,309
>> Yeah. Any other thoughts?

1010
00:44:44,319 --> 00:44:47,599
Does the staff know if that type of an

1011
00:44:47,599 --> 00:44:54,870
arrangement constitutes commercial?

1012
00:44:54,880 --> 00:44:56,880
» Yeah, I I think we may need to do a

1013
00:44:56,880 --> 00:44:59,359
little bit of research on that as far as

1014
00:44:59,359 --> 00:45:02,580
something to do with vending. Um one

1015
00:45:02,580 --> 00:45:07,119
[clears throat] thought though um if um

1016
00:45:07,119 --> 00:45:09,359
if you are finding that the commercial

1017
00:45:09,359 --> 00:45:12,079
use is not meeting the required

1018
00:45:12,079 --> 00:45:13,839
standards if that's the direction you're

1019
00:45:13,839 --> 00:45:18,720
going in and if if uh you're going in

1020
00:45:18,720 --> 00:45:21,599
the direction of refusing on that basis

1021
00:45:21,599 --> 00:45:23,680
I would probably recommend not including

1022
00:45:23,680 --> 00:45:25,839
the geotechnical

1023
00:45:25,839 --> 00:45:28,319
piece as part of that refusal because

1024
00:45:28,319 --> 00:45:31,280
that that would be kind of going two

1025
00:45:31,280 --> 00:45:32,960
steps ahead if if you know what I mean

1026
00:45:32,960 --> 00:45:34,160
because you

1027
00:45:34,160 --> 00:45:36,240
>> you don't know

1028
00:45:36,240 --> 00:45:37,200
what

1029
00:45:37,200 --> 00:45:38,960
>> what's going to be proposed. Yeah,

1030
00:45:38,960 --> 00:45:41,040
>> that that would be my recommendation

1031
00:45:41,040 --> 00:45:42,880
that if if you are going in the

1032
00:45:42,880 --> 00:45:45,040
direction of refusal for the commercial

1033
00:45:45,040 --> 00:45:47,040
use that that's that's what you base

1034
00:45:47,040 --> 00:45:48,560
your refusal on.

1035
00:45:48,560 --> 00:45:51,520
>> Okay.

1036
00:45:51,520 --> 00:45:55,680
>> Yeah. My my concern is that and it and I

1037
00:45:55,680 --> 00:45:58,960
think it's a separate thing um you know

1038
00:45:58,960 --> 00:46:00,800
should there be a geotechnical report

1039
00:46:00,800 --> 00:46:02,960
and I think there's enough lack of

1040
00:46:02,960 --> 00:46:05,760
information and discrepancies and in

1041
00:46:05,760 --> 00:46:08,720
provided information in my mind for us

1042
00:46:08,720 --> 00:46:11,119
to make a decision on anything in that

1043
00:46:11,119 --> 00:46:12,800
regard without seeing a geotechnical

1044
00:46:12,800 --> 00:46:15,040
report. If we look at the surveys from

1045
00:46:15,040 --> 00:46:18,160
2016, I think it was, and the surveys

1046
00:46:18,160 --> 00:46:20,560
more current or recently, there's

1047
00:46:20,560 --> 00:46:22,319
significant discrepancies in the

1048
00:46:22,319 --> 00:46:29,440
elevations on those properties and the areas of 30% slope. And only looking

1049
00:46:29,440 --> 00:46:32,079
at the current, you know, state of the

1050
00:46:32,079 --> 00:46:33,599
land, it's really going to be difficult

1051
00:46:33,599 --> 00:46:36,400
to determine how much soil was removed,

1052
00:46:36,400 --> 00:46:39,359
what was 30% slope, what got changed,

1053
00:46:39,359 --> 00:46:41,119
that sort of thing. And so for us to

1054
00:46:41,119 --> 00:46:43,440
make a determine based on, you know,

1055
00:46:43,440 --> 00:46:46,560
look at it now versus

1056
00:46:46,560 --> 00:46:48,800
these two reports that are very very

1057
00:46:48,800 --> 00:46:53,040
different in terms of where some of the contour lines are and the and the

1058
00:46:53,040 --> 00:46:55,760
elevations. I think I don't think we

1059
00:46:55,760 --> 00:46:57,920
have the the technical capacity to do

1060
00:46:57,920 --> 00:47:00,240
that here. We probably need somebody to

1061
00:47:00,240 --> 00:47:02,240
take a look at it. And to me, that's a

1062
00:47:02,240 --> 00:47:05,200
triggering event for item five, if you

1063
00:47:05,200 --> 00:47:07,119
will, that says any other condition

1064
00:47:07,119 --> 00:47:10,160
where, you know, um, we think a DO check

1065
00:47:10,160 --> 00:47:12,880
technical investigation is is warranted.

1066
00:47:12,880 --> 00:47:15,119
And you know, I go out and look at the

1067
00:47:15,119 --> 00:47:18,800
property and it's um

1068
00:47:18,800 --> 00:47:20,720
yeah, I I think it's warranted, but you

1069
00:47:20,720 --> 00:47:22,480
know, that's just um

1070
00:47:22,480 --> 00:47:24,560
>> Well, I think at this point though, if

1071
00:47:24,560 --> 00:47:26,720
we just

1072
00:47:26,720 --> 00:47:30,800
deny the application, then that's

1073
00:47:30,800 --> 00:47:34,480
discussion if a new application is

1074
00:47:34,480 --> 00:47:37,599
submitted. Well, we can think we can we

1075
00:47:37,599 --> 00:47:41,760
can say, yeah, the um application can be

1076
00:47:41,760 --> 00:47:45,200
refused on item number four, you know,

1077
00:47:45,200 --> 00:47:48,160
the uh the commercial use thing, but it

1078
00:47:48,160 --> 00:47:50,800
can also be uh I think we can also take

1079
00:47:50,800 --> 00:47:52,319
a position on the other one if we choose

1080
00:47:52,319 --> 00:47:53,680
to. I don't want to I don't want to take

1081
00:47:53,680 --> 00:47:55,599
a position on on one of them and then

1082
00:47:55,599 --> 00:47:57,520
have you know the applicant come back

1083
00:47:57,520 --> 00:47:59,520
later thinking that oh he's going to be

1084
00:47:59,520 --> 00:48:00,960
successful because we didn't look at it

1085
00:48:00,960 --> 00:48:03,520
now and then have us you know turn back

1086
00:48:03,520 --> 00:48:04,960
around and say oh no you need to do this

1087
00:48:04,960 --> 00:48:05,839
one too.

1088
00:48:05,839 --> 00:48:07,440
>> I don't think we have enough information

1089
00:48:07,440 --> 00:48:08,000
though to

1090
00:48:08,000 --> 00:48:10,079
>> well and which is why I think that

1091
00:48:10,079 --> 00:48:11,680
>> because it potentially could not be

1092
00:48:11,680 --> 00:48:13,359
required

1093
00:48:13,359 --> 00:48:16,000
>> in

1094
00:48:16,000 --> 00:48:18,400
how I don't think it's the requirement

1095
00:48:18,400 --> 00:48:19,920
is not because of the commercial use the

1096
00:48:19,920 --> 00:48:21,200
requirement is because of the state of

1097
00:48:21,200 --> 00:48:22,880
the land. Yeah, I think what you're

1098
00:48:22,880 --> 00:48:24,800
>> the lack of sufficient insufficiency of

1099
00:48:24,800 --> 00:48:26,240
information about the state of the land,

1100
00:48:26,240 --> 00:48:26,960
you know,

1101
00:48:26,960 --> 00:48:30,640
>> is that we still have this idea that the

1102
00:48:30,640 --> 00:48:32,160
high-risk

1103
00:48:32,160 --> 00:48:35,520
landslide area that this excavation took

1104
00:48:35,520 --> 00:48:36,319
place in,

1105
00:48:36,319 --> 00:48:37,280
>> correct,

1106
00:48:37,280 --> 00:48:41,920
>> potentially changed the risk profile of

1107
00:48:41,920 --> 00:48:43,760
the landslide. We the it's not the

1108
00:48:43,760 --> 00:48:45,680
applicant's job to fix the landslide

1109
00:48:45,680 --> 00:48:46,160
issue,

1110
00:48:46,160 --> 00:48:46,480
>> right?

1111
00:48:46,480 --> 00:48:48,880
>> It's their job not to make it worse, not

1112
00:48:48,880 --> 00:48:50,480
to make it more risky,

1113
00:48:50,480 --> 00:48:55,119
>> right? If you read the beginning of um

1114
00:48:55,119 --> 00:48:58,000
F151,

1115
00:48:58,000 --> 00:48:59,920
you know, the purpose of this whole

1116
00:48:59,920 --> 00:49:02,960
geotechnical thing is to promote and

1117
00:49:02,960 --> 00:49:05,359
protect this health, safety, welfare of

1118
00:49:05,359 --> 00:49:07,760
citizens of Springdale and protect the

1119
00:49:07,760 --> 00:49:09,440
infrastructure and financial health of

1120
00:49:09,440 --> 00:49:12,720
Springdale, among other things. So, it's

1121
00:49:12,720 --> 00:49:15,119
not just to protect a structure on the

1122
00:49:15,119 --> 00:49:18,160
property, but also potentially things

1123
00:49:18,160 --> 00:49:19,920
nearby.

1124
00:49:19,920 --> 00:49:23,520
Um, and we have SR9 downhill from this

1125
00:49:23,520 --> 00:49:27,040
lot and I potentially utilities in

1126
00:49:27,040 --> 00:49:29,200
easements. It's we don't know that for

1127
00:49:29,200 --> 00:49:35,280
sure, but so there are things that are at risk of a landslide.

1128
00:49:35,280 --> 00:49:37,839
And the question might be just take

1129
00:49:37,839 --> 00:49:41,040
Paul's point of view here, did that risk

1130
00:49:41,040 --> 00:49:43,599
increase by the excavation,

1131
00:49:43,599 --> 00:49:45,200
>> right?

1132
00:49:45,200 --> 00:49:47,839
>> Um

1133
00:49:47,839 --> 00:49:50,240
the concern I have about that is that

1134
00:49:50,240 --> 00:49:52,720
the way the whole geo

1135
00:49:52,720 --> 00:49:55,599
technical or the whole geo hazard

1136
00:49:55,599 --> 00:49:58,640
section is structured

1137
00:49:58,640 --> 00:50:02,960
tends to point away from applying this

1138
00:50:02,960 --> 00:50:05,359
when there's not structures.

1139
00:50:05,359 --> 00:50:07,040
Um,

1140
00:50:07,040 --> 00:50:08,559
to be honest, we might want to talk to

1141
00:50:08,559 --> 00:50:10,319
the staff about whether we review this

1142
00:50:10,319 --> 00:50:12,000
at some point in a future work meeting,

1143
00:50:12,000 --> 00:50:12,880
>> right?

1144
00:50:12,880 --> 00:50:15,440
>> Um, but I think in this meeting we need

1145
00:50:15,440 --> 00:50:18,000
to follow the ordinance as it's written.

1146
00:50:18,000 --> 00:50:20,720
>> And that's why I I continue to be on the

1147
00:50:20,720 --> 00:50:23,119
fence because I see the ordinance goes

1148
00:50:23,119 --> 00:50:25,359
both ways.

1149
00:50:25,359 --> 00:50:27,839
And

1150
00:50:27,839 --> 00:50:30,319
so I have a so I understand your point,

1151
00:50:30,319 --> 00:50:33,200
Paul, and I I in some ways agree with

1152
00:50:33,200 --> 00:50:35,119
it.

1153
00:50:35,119 --> 00:50:37,119
You think you agree or disagree?

1154
00:50:37,119 --> 00:50:39,839
>> Both. Yeah, [laughter] I think I think I

1155
00:50:39,839 --> 00:50:42,800
both agree and disagree. Um, which does

1156
00:50:42,800 --> 00:50:44,960
which is what leads me to maybe we take

1157
00:50:44,960 --> 00:50:47,839
a work meeting and think through like

1158
00:50:47,839 --> 00:50:50,319
how this is all structured and whether

1159
00:50:50,319 --> 00:50:52,079
we can make our lives a little easier in

1160
00:50:52,079 --> 00:50:54,960
the future. Um, but we need to deal with

1161
00:50:54,960 --> 00:50:57,839
what we're dealing with right now.

1162
00:50:57,839 --> 00:51:02,480
>> Um, so I'd be happy to hear other people

1163
00:51:02,480 --> 00:51:04,640
um because I still haven't completely

1164
00:51:04,640 --> 00:51:06,880
made up my mind.

1165
00:51:06,880 --> 00:51:12,549
>> So, what haven't you made? So,

1166
00:51:12,559 --> 00:51:15,440
aside from just denying the application,

1167
00:51:15,440 --> 00:51:17,440
is there another option that you're is

1168
00:51:17,440 --> 00:51:18,880
that that you haven't made your mind up

1169
00:51:18,880 --> 00:51:19,760
about?

1170
00:51:19,760 --> 00:51:21,359
>> I think at this point we've tabled it

1171
00:51:21,359 --> 00:51:22,800
enough times that we either approve or

1172
00:51:22,800 --> 00:51:23,359
deny,

1173
00:51:23,359 --> 00:51:24,079
>> right?

1174
00:51:24,079 --> 00:51:25,920
>> I think we're going towards a deny. I

1175
00:51:25,920 --> 00:51:27,119
think we're all agreeing that the

1176
00:51:27,119 --> 00:51:29,359
commercial use is a reason to deny.

1177
00:51:29,359 --> 00:51:32,319
>> Right. And the remaining discussion is

1178
00:51:32,319 --> 00:51:35,040
do we include okay so we make a reason

1179
00:51:35,040 --> 00:51:37,200
to deny the finding is the commercial

1180
00:51:37,200 --> 00:51:40,480
use do we add a second finding about the

1181
00:51:40,480 --> 00:51:42,960
geotechnical report I think is really

1182
00:51:42,960 --> 00:51:46,960
the discussion we're having right and all

1183
00:51:46,960 --> 00:51:48,160
>> in the denial

1184
00:51:48,160 --> 00:51:50,079
>> in the in today's denial if we do the

1185
00:51:50,079 --> 00:51:51,520
denial today

1186
00:51:51,520 --> 00:51:55,920
>> right um because there the I assume the

1187
00:51:55,920 --> 00:51:58,400
applicant will come back at some point

1188
00:51:58,400 --> 00:52:01,200
and address our finding, right? And so

1189
00:52:01,200 --> 00:52:02,880
if we don't have a finding for the

1190
00:52:02,880 --> 00:52:05,839
geotechnical report and

1191
00:52:05,839 --> 00:52:08,480
creates some mechanism, some structure

1192
00:52:08,480 --> 00:52:10,400
that doesn't have you, you know, right,

1193
00:52:10,400 --> 00:52:12,319
that doesn't meet those.

1194
00:52:12,319 --> 00:52:14,800
>> So the finding would be denying it based

1195
00:52:14,800 --> 00:52:16,800
on

1196
00:52:16,800 --> 00:52:19,920
the commercial business

1197
00:52:19,920 --> 00:52:24,160
is a place of occupancy. therefore would

1198
00:52:24,160 --> 00:52:25,040
require

1199
00:52:25,040 --> 00:52:26,960
>> well I think we we would deny based on

1200
00:52:26,960 --> 00:52:28,480
the commercial that the mobile business

1201
00:52:28,480 --> 00:52:29,680
doesn't meet the requirements of a

1202
00:52:29,680 --> 00:52:32,319
commercial business of the commercialite

1203
00:52:32,319 --> 00:52:34,720
and then if the second finding would be

1204
00:52:34,720 --> 00:52:37,680
separate wouldn't apply at all right and

1205
00:52:37,680 --> 00:52:39,440
Paul's idea wouldn't apply at all it

1206
00:52:39,440 --> 00:52:40,480
would say

1207
00:52:40,480 --> 00:52:45,280
>> that the geologic hazards of this the

1208
00:52:45,280 --> 00:52:47,119
geological hazard of this property the

1209
00:52:47,119 --> 00:52:49,839
landslide hazard of this property um is

1210
00:52:49,839 --> 00:52:52,480
sufficient that we believe that a

1211
00:52:52,480 --> 00:52:54,880
geotechnical report is needed and I

1212
00:52:54,880 --> 00:52:56,319
think it would be this first level

1213
00:52:56,319 --> 00:52:58,240
report even still because

1214
00:52:58,240 --> 00:52:59,760
>> for what though like we're not even

1215
00:52:59,760 --> 00:53:01,599
saying on what basis we would

1216
00:53:01,599 --> 00:53:06,000
>> on the basis of the risk to um public

1217
00:53:06,000 --> 00:53:08,240
infrastructure to the citizens of

1218
00:53:08,240 --> 00:53:10,880
Springdale and our visitors right

1219
00:53:10,880 --> 00:53:13,760
because the question we don't know the

1220
00:53:13,760 --> 00:53:16,880
answer to is did this excavation

1221
00:53:16,880 --> 00:53:20,960
increase the risk to SR9

1222
00:53:20,960 --> 00:53:22,880
>> I don't think We're at a place right now

1223
00:53:22,880 --> 00:53:25,920
where we um it makes sense to make a

1224
00:53:25,920 --> 00:53:27,680
decision like that. Like we're at a

1225
00:53:27,680 --> 00:53:29,440
place now where we're approving or

1226
00:53:29,440 --> 00:53:33,200
denying this DDR.

1227
00:53:33,200 --> 00:53:35,280
And I I

1228
00:53:35,280 --> 00:53:37,839
uh it sounds like that's something in to

1229
00:53:37,839 --> 00:53:40,720
put in place in relationship to the

1230
00:53:40,720 --> 00:53:43,760
parking lot.

1231
00:53:43,760 --> 00:53:45,440
>> Right. And this DDR this DDR

1232
00:53:45,440 --> 00:53:47,119
>> this would be separate.

1233
00:53:47,119 --> 00:53:50,079
>> So this DDR is about the parking lot.

1234
00:53:50,079 --> 00:53:53,200
Well, the parking lot grading permit has

1235
00:53:53,200 --> 00:53:54,400
been approved,

1236
00:53:54,400 --> 00:53:54,640
>> right?

1237
00:53:54,640 --> 00:53:57,280
>> The grading permit was approved.

1238
00:53:57,280 --> 00:53:58,319
>> Now, if you

1239
00:53:58,319 --> 00:54:00,000
>> So, the parking lot doesn't exist

1240
00:54:00,000 --> 00:54:03,670
without a business.

1241
00:54:03,680 --> 00:54:04,720
» Well, the parking

1242
00:54:04,720 --> 00:54:06,160
>> without commercial use,

1243
00:54:06,160 --> 00:54:07,359
>> right? The the the

1244
00:54:07,359 --> 00:54:08,240
>> the expansion

1245
00:54:08,240 --> 00:54:10,880
>> the commercial use is a requirement,

1246
00:54:10,880 --> 00:54:11,440
>> right,

1247
00:54:11,440 --> 00:54:13,040
>> for the for the expansion park,

1248
00:54:13,040 --> 00:54:15,520
>> right? Um

1249
00:54:15,520 --> 00:54:17,520
and and and so I also understand what

1250
00:54:17,520 --> 00:54:19,760
you're saying is that you know the other

1251
00:54:19,760 --> 00:54:23,200
side of the argument is that yes we the

1252
00:54:23,200 --> 00:54:25,359
grading permit has been approved and the

1253
00:54:25,359 --> 00:54:31,280
DCD did not require a um geologic hazard

1254
00:54:31,280 --> 00:54:34,160
report or the geologic geotechnical

1255
00:54:34,160 --> 00:54:37,760
report or whichever one it is. Um and

1256
00:54:37,760 --> 00:54:41,760
therefore that part is done, right? And

1257
00:54:41,760 --> 00:54:45,280
that your idea is that the DDR is not

1258
00:54:45,280 --> 00:54:49,760
another is not an opportunity to um for

1259
00:54:49,760 --> 00:54:53,200
us to look at that aspect, right,

1260
00:54:53,200 --> 00:54:55,359
>> the health, safety, and welfare of of

1261
00:54:55,359 --> 00:54:56,400
the Springdale citizens.

1262
00:54:56,400 --> 00:54:58,880
>> Correct.

1263
00:54:58,880 --> 00:55:00,000
>> And I think that's kind of where we're

1264
00:55:00,000 --> 00:55:03,920
at. Is is this DDR?

1265
00:55:03,920 --> 00:55:06,480
Okay, let me let me add one more thing.

1266
00:55:06,480 --> 00:55:09,119
Normally, typically

1267
00:55:09,119 --> 00:55:13,040
the beha the the f the the the the um

1268
00:55:13,040 --> 00:55:17,359
process we see is that a DDR comes to us

1269
00:55:17,359 --> 00:55:20,880
before any permits are granted, right?

1270
00:55:20,880 --> 00:55:23,119
And so these discussions had had this

1271
00:55:23,119 --> 00:55:25,839
been the state for this case, we would

1272
00:55:25,839 --> 00:55:29,359
be having these discussions before the

1273
00:55:29,359 --> 00:55:31,599
grading permit was issued

1274
00:55:31,599 --> 00:55:35,920
>> and before the grading occurred.

1275
00:55:35,920 --> 00:55:38,800
>> Yes. Right. That that that the grading

1276
00:55:38,800 --> 00:55:41,280
that we would have the discussions once

1277
00:55:41,280 --> 00:55:42,880
things were approved the grading permit

1278
00:55:42,880 --> 00:55:44,160
would be issued and then the grading

1279
00:55:44,160 --> 00:55:48,880
would happen under those conditions.

1280
00:55:48,880 --> 00:55:51,200
um or if you take the argument, well,

1281
00:55:51,200 --> 00:55:52,720
the grading permit has already happened.

1282
00:55:52,720 --> 00:55:56,160
Therefore, we now no longer have the

1283
00:55:56,160 --> 00:55:57,839
authority we would have had under the

1284
00:55:57,839 --> 00:55:59,839
other order.

1285
00:55:59,839 --> 00:56:03,440
Basically says that the applicant's

1286
00:56:03,440 --> 00:56:05,440
actions

1287
00:56:05,440 --> 00:56:07,599
kicked off a process that came out of

1288
00:56:07,599 --> 00:56:10,559
order and therefore now we we don't have

1289
00:56:10,559 --> 00:56:15,359
a power or a cap authority that we used

1290
00:56:15,359 --> 00:56:18,960
to have that we would normally have. Do

1291
00:56:18,960 --> 00:56:20,480
you follow where I'm going with that?

1292
00:56:20,480 --> 00:56:22,400
Yeah, I see what you're saying, but I I

1293
00:56:22,400 --> 00:56:24,799
it doesn't make sense to me to to put

1294
00:56:24,799 --> 00:56:29,040
that in. Like I I it's putting a

1295
00:56:29,040 --> 00:56:32,160
requirement in place.

1296
00:56:32,160 --> 00:56:35,119
Well, first of all, I I know what you're

1297
00:56:35,119 --> 00:56:37,359
saying. It's it's tricky because we're

1298
00:56:37,359 --> 00:56:40,000
doing things in a little out of order,

1299
00:56:40,000 --> 00:56:41,200
>> out of the typical order,

1300
00:56:41,200 --> 00:56:42,559
>> right?

1301
00:56:42,559 --> 00:56:44,240
But

1302
00:56:44,240 --> 00:56:46,240
um

1303
00:56:46,240 --> 00:56:48,480
we don't even know what the future

1304
00:56:48,480 --> 00:56:50,880
options are.

1305
00:56:50,880 --> 00:56:52,559
>> Like we've kind of thrown around these

1306
00:56:52,559 --> 00:56:55,680
few ideas of like is it possible to have

1307
00:56:55,680 --> 00:56:58,480
a business without occupancy

1308
00:56:58,480 --> 00:56:59,920
>> but and again

1309
00:56:59,920 --> 00:57:00,880
>> but I know what you're saying. You're

1310
00:57:00,880 --> 00:57:01,200
looking

1311
00:57:01,200 --> 00:57:02,720
>> they're separate things too. I mean

1312
00:57:02,720 --> 00:57:04,160
that's one aspect of it. The other

1313
00:57:04,160 --> 00:57:06,319
aspect of it is, you know, if we were

1314
00:57:06,319 --> 00:57:09,200
going to if if as as pointed out, if

1315
00:57:09,200 --> 00:57:10,319
we're going to look at the grading of it

1316
00:57:10,319 --> 00:57:11,520
and we look go out and look at the

1317
00:57:11,520 --> 00:57:12,400
grade, you know, what are they going to

1318
00:57:12,400 --> 00:57:14,240
do in regards to grading, we would make

1319
00:57:14,240 --> 00:57:16,799
a determination based on how that's

1320
00:57:16,799 --> 00:57:18,319
going to occur, what's going to happen.

1321
00:57:18,319 --> 00:57:21,520
So in theory, you're saying so if there

1322
00:57:21,520 --> 00:57:23,280
was an option that you could put in

1323
00:57:23,280 --> 00:57:26,640
commercial use that wasn't

1324
00:57:26,640 --> 00:57:29,760
>> didn't meet the occupancy. Oh, no. That

1325
00:57:29,760 --> 00:57:32,000
it didn't require or that there was no

1326
00:57:32,000 --> 00:57:33,280
occupant,

1327
00:57:33,280 --> 00:57:35,440
>> right? Then we then we may still have a

1328
00:57:35,440 --> 00:57:37,440
problem with regard to the

1329
00:57:37,440 --> 00:57:40,240
>> So you're saying

1330
00:57:40,240 --> 00:57:42,000
still have this requirement in there

1331
00:57:42,000 --> 00:57:44,480
based on number five, the other

1332
00:57:44,480 --> 00:57:47,359
instance. I'm saying we still have the

1333
00:57:47,359 --> 00:57:50,079
requirement of number five and we need

1334
00:57:50,079 --> 00:57:52,000
to exercise it probably.

1335
00:57:52,000 --> 00:57:53,920
>> Right. And I I think what you're saying

1336
00:57:53,920 --> 00:57:54,240
is

1337
00:57:54,240 --> 00:57:56,640
>> I mean if you look at if you look at

1338
00:57:56,640 --> 00:58:00,000
these two drawings this point here is at

1339
00:58:00,000 --> 00:58:02,000
3945

1340
00:58:02,000 --> 00:58:04,480
elevation. I believe it's pretty close

1341
00:58:04,480 --> 00:58:06,880
to this point here which is at 39.

1342
00:58:06,880 --> 00:58:08,559
>> When is this one from?

1343
00:58:08,559 --> 00:58:10,000
>> This is the more

1344
00:58:10,000 --> 00:58:11,839
>> this is the recent one.

1345
00:58:11,839 --> 00:58:14,960
>> I think this is more recent.

1346
00:58:14,960 --> 00:58:17,599
there's 25 ft difference between those

1347
00:58:17,599 --> 00:58:18,960
two.

1348
00:58:18,960 --> 00:58:20,079
>> I was looking at that.

1349
00:58:20,079 --> 00:58:22,000
>> You know, I we need to resolve this

1350
00:58:22,000 --> 00:58:24,240
discrepancy to to make a determination

1351
00:58:24,240 --> 00:58:25,920
of, you know, how much soil was removed,

1352
00:58:25,920 --> 00:58:27,680
how much whatever. And, you know, I

1353
00:58:27,680 --> 00:58:29,200
don't given that we can't go out and

1354
00:58:29,200 --> 00:58:30,400
look at the land and do that. I don't

1355
00:58:30,400 --> 00:58:33,760
know how we do that. Um

1356
00:58:33,760 --> 00:58:36,640
I I noticed that too that if you look at

1357
00:58:36,640 --> 00:58:38,799
those two drawings and and you assume

1358
00:58:38,799 --> 00:58:40,720
they're both true, then the entire

1359
00:58:40,720 --> 00:58:42,960
property has risen 12 ft.

1360
00:58:42,960 --> 00:58:43,760
>> Yeah. Which can

1361
00:58:43,760 --> 00:58:46,640
>> in 10 years, right? Because the old one

1362
00:58:46,640 --> 00:58:48,640
has it 12 feet lower than the new one.

1363
00:58:48,640 --> 00:58:51,839
>> Right. But I remembered something after

1364
00:58:51,839 --> 00:58:55,040
a while that I read an article not that

1365
00:58:55,040 --> 00:58:57,760
long ago that the calculation for sea

1366
00:58:57,760 --> 00:59:00,960
level was changed and that a that that

1367
00:59:00,960 --> 00:59:04,240
various peaks around the world are now a

1368
00:59:04,240 --> 00:59:06,559
different elevation than they used to be

1369
00:59:06,559 --> 00:59:09,520
because whoever decides this decided

1370
00:59:09,520 --> 00:59:12,319
that sea level calculations have changed

1371
00:59:12,319 --> 00:59:15,040
>> potentially

1372
00:59:15,040 --> 00:59:16,880
that kind of difference. Um

1373
00:59:16,880 --> 00:59:20,240
>> but but you know whatever there's been

1374
00:59:20,240 --> 00:59:22,400
the change and the change is s

1375
00:59:22,400 --> 00:59:24,240
significant whether you look at the

1376
00:59:24,240 --> 00:59:26,880
existing one or the or the previous one

1377
00:59:26,880 --> 00:59:29,520
there's still a a wide discrepancy

1378
00:59:29,520 --> 00:59:30,079
between

1379
00:59:30,079 --> 00:59:33,760
>> so couldn't we put that requirement in

1380
00:59:33,760 --> 00:59:37,200
after looking at the next application

1381
00:59:37,200 --> 00:59:40,480
like why would we put it in now

1382
00:59:40,480 --> 00:59:44,319
>> here's the reason we would put it in now

1383
00:59:44,319 --> 00:59:47,119
is if if we make only the commercial

1384
00:59:47,119 --> 00:59:49,760
use. There's several options that are

1385
00:59:49,760 --> 00:59:52,480
available to the applicant. One is to

1386
00:59:52,480 --> 00:59:54,559
request a variance. That'll never come

1387
00:59:54,559 --> 00:59:56,799
back to us. Another is to request

1388
00:59:56,799 --> 00:59:58,319
mediation. I believe that won't come

1389
00:59:58,319 --> 01:00:00,319
back to us. A third is to propose

1390
01:00:00,319 --> 01:00:02,720
something that doesn't require occupancy

1391
01:00:02,720 --> 01:00:05,119
and doesn't trigger the need. Right? And

1392
01:00:05,119 --> 01:00:08,799
so by not putting it in, right, we may

1393
01:00:08,799 --> 01:00:10,559
not it may not be something that gets

1394
01:00:10,559 --> 01:00:12,880
added later.

1395
01:00:12,880 --> 01:00:14,720
Now I go back to sort of the whole

1396
01:00:14,720 --> 01:00:16,960
structure of the way the ordinances are

1397
01:00:16,960 --> 01:00:21,839
put together and I still see this that

1398
01:00:21,839 --> 01:00:23,839
the way the ordinances the ordinance is

1399
01:00:23,839 --> 01:00:26,960
put together

1400
01:00:26,960 --> 01:00:30,480
we're we're pu we're pushing the limits

1401
01:00:30,480 --> 01:00:34,240
to require a geotechnical report

1402
01:00:34,240 --> 01:00:37,760
for the parking lot alone

1403
01:00:37,760 --> 01:00:40,640
and I get all the concerns and I read

1404
01:00:40,640 --> 01:00:42,160
about the safety and the welfare of the

1405
01:00:42,160 --> 01:00:44,720
citizens and infrastructure.

1406
01:00:44,720 --> 01:00:46,880
Um,

1407
01:00:46,880 --> 01:00:51,040
and like I said, I go back and forth. I think we've got one for, one against,

1408
01:00:51,040 --> 01:00:53,200
and one still unsure, and two who

1409
01:00:53,200 --> 01:00:55,359
haven't spoken.

1410
01:00:55,359 --> 01:00:57,520
>> I have some things to say, but I don't

1411
01:00:57,520 --> 01:01:01,040
know if now's the time. Um,

1412
01:01:01,040 --> 01:01:03,440
as someone who has had my car caked in,

1413
01:01:03,440 --> 01:01:05,599
blocked in from a landslide not far from

1414
01:01:05,599 --> 01:01:08,640
there, I appreciate the precautions the

1415
01:01:08,640 --> 01:01:12,400
city is taking and uh, Luke has taken to

1416
01:01:12,400 --> 01:01:15,040
try to make sure everything is good. I

1417
01:01:15,040 --> 01:01:16,799
have so much to learn concerning that

1418
01:01:16,799 --> 01:01:19,119
and honestly, a lot of that too is over

1419
01:01:19,119 --> 01:01:20,559
my head and I'm looking forward to

1420
01:01:20,559 --> 01:01:22,799
learning more. So, I appreciate that.

1421
01:01:22,799 --> 01:01:24,240
I'd like that being said that from a

1422
01:01:24,240 --> 01:01:26,880
very personal level, I understand and

1423
01:01:26,880 --> 01:01:28,480
appreciate the safety precautions being

1424
01:01:28,480 --> 01:01:31,680
made. I also post that flood in 2021

1425
01:01:31,680 --> 01:01:34,319
when my car had to get excavated out.

1426
01:01:34,319 --> 01:01:38,799
Um, I saw how things were fixed uh in

1427
01:01:38,799 --> 01:01:41,520
the surrounding area by the companies.

1428
01:01:41,520 --> 01:01:43,040
It was the companies that were able to

1429
01:01:43,040 --> 01:01:50,720
produce money to produce ways that the the water goes to get to the river a

1430
01:01:50,720 --> 01:01:52,480
little more safely. I don't know if that

1431
01:01:52,480 --> 01:01:54,079
was because of town code or because of

1432
01:01:54,079 --> 01:01:55,920
the company's strategy and what they

1433
01:01:55,920 --> 01:01:58,720
could do. I don't know. But I've seen

1434
01:01:58,720 --> 01:02:03,119
firsthand the need for all this. I also

1435
01:02:03,119 --> 01:02:05,200
uh should have been a little more

1436
01:02:05,200 --> 01:02:06,640
prepared, but I was like, "Oh my

1437
01:02:06,640 --> 01:02:08,480
goodness, I'm starting to protect the

1438
01:02:08,480 --> 01:02:11,119
Constitution and the Utah Constitution,

1439
01:02:11,119 --> 01:02:13,359
and I need to know the Count Town Code a

1440
01:02:13,359 --> 01:02:15,760
lot better." I was curious with the

1441
01:02:15,760 --> 01:02:17,359
history of how long this has been on the

1442
01:02:17,359 --> 01:02:24,240
books. So I did a quick search about if and what is

1443
01:02:24,240 --> 01:02:27,440
the due process expectancy for property.

1444
01:02:27,440 --> 01:02:29,680
Um my question was is there a

1445
01:02:29,680 --> 01:02:32,880
speeditness requirement for property

1446
01:02:32,880 --> 01:02:34,400
situations?

1447
01:02:34,400 --> 01:02:38,559
Um Thomas Greenell says yes.

1448
01:02:38,559 --> 01:02:41,119
The DD the DCD will review the request

1449
01:02:41,119 --> 01:02:43,040
within five business days. And I'm sure

1450
01:02:43,040 --> 01:02:44,640
that's about one specific thing. I'm

1451
01:02:44,640 --> 01:02:47,040
sure there's more that I need to study.

1452
01:02:47,040 --> 01:02:50,240
Utah constitution says um in article 1

1453
01:02:50,240 --> 01:02:52,799
statute 11 remedy by due course of law

1454
01:02:52,799 --> 01:02:54,160
which shall be administered without

1455
01:02:54,160 --> 01:02:57,280
denial or unnecessary delay and then the

1456
01:02:57,280 --> 01:03:00,000
US constitution says no that that due

1457
01:03:00,000 --> 01:03:01,839
process is mostly for criminal law and

1458
01:03:01,839 --> 01:03:03,599
things like that. So those are my

1459
01:03:03,599 --> 01:03:07,200
thoughts. I have so much to learn. Uh I

1460
01:03:07,200 --> 01:03:09,040
don't know anything. I'm grateful that

1461
01:03:09,040 --> 01:03:11,359
uh but but also from another

1462
01:03:11,359 --> 01:03:15,200
perspective. Um it seems I I I I need to

1463
01:03:15,200 --> 01:03:18,960
learn why you were able to get a permit

1464
01:03:18,960 --> 01:03:20,720
under conditions that was able to

1465
01:03:20,720 --> 01:03:23,119
provide our town with parking that was

1466
01:03:23,119 --> 01:03:26,880
necessary for for our needs. um and that

1467
01:03:26,880 --> 01:03:29,680
you were able to try to get a permit uh

1468
01:03:29,680 --> 01:03:31,680
that actually is a good thing for the

1469
01:03:31,680 --> 01:03:35,440
town from my perspective. Um I imagine

1470
01:03:35,440 --> 01:03:38,640
that this new permit has reasons that

1471
01:03:38,640 --> 01:03:40,480
it's requiring all this new stuff for

1472
01:03:40,480 --> 01:03:42,000
reasons I don't know. Maybe bathrooms

1473
01:03:42,000 --> 01:03:43,440
are one of those things. I can I can see

1474
01:03:43,440 --> 01:03:45,039
if you have tons more people in this

1475
01:03:45,039 --> 01:03:46,640
area parking you need a bathroom. I get

1476
01:03:46,640 --> 01:03:49,680
that. Uh but perhaps if we're trying to

1477
01:03:49,680 --> 01:03:52,000
come up with some crazy reason to be

1478
01:03:52,000 --> 01:03:54,319
able to fit the permit, right, maybe the

1479
01:03:54,319 --> 01:03:57,119
law needs to be relooked at again.

1480
01:03:57,119 --> 01:03:59,119
>> Yeah. And this definitely has brought up

1481
01:03:59,119 --> 01:04:01,680
some things that can we can put on the

1482
01:04:01,680 --> 01:04:04,079
books in the future because that um the

1483
01:04:04,079 --> 01:04:06,000
there's some really good examples here

1484
01:04:06,000 --> 01:04:08,480
of just things that wouldn't naturally

1485
01:04:08,480 --> 01:04:10,319
come to mind when you're putting certain

1486
01:04:10,319 --> 01:04:12,640
ordinances in place. Like when the

1487
01:04:12,640 --> 01:04:15,200
parking lot ordinance was put in and the

1488
01:04:15,200 --> 01:04:17,520
commercial requirement came, it probably

1489
01:04:17,520 --> 01:04:20,960
didn't come to anybody's mind that

1490
01:04:20,960 --> 01:04:24,480
would a mobile business be considered.

1491
01:04:24,480 --> 01:04:26,880
And so now like here we are with you

1492
01:04:26,880 --> 01:04:29,119
know grappling with that and what

1493
01:04:29,119 --> 01:04:31,599
developing. So you're exactly right

1494
01:04:31,599 --> 01:04:34,240
>> and in the in the in the in the heart of

1495
01:04:34,240 --> 01:04:36,799
trying to be speedy for the applicant

1496
01:04:36,799 --> 01:04:39,680
for his property um in upholding at

1497
01:04:39,680 --> 01:04:41,520
least the Utah constitution and the town

1498
01:04:41,520 --> 01:04:43,440
of Springdale code. Maybe I'm wrong.

1499
01:04:43,440 --> 01:04:44,799
Please feel free to correct me if I'm

1500
01:04:44,799 --> 01:04:48,160
wrong on that. Is there a an expectation

1501
01:04:48,160 --> 01:04:51,680
of of not undue delay?

1502
01:04:51,680 --> 01:04:55,920
>> Yeah sure. So the the the time review is

1503
01:04:55,920 --> 01:04:58,319
kind of that you've referred to is the

1504
01:04:58,319 --> 01:05:01,119
initial application review to kind of

1505
01:05:01,119 --> 01:05:03,280
review the application, make sure it's

1506
01:05:03,280 --> 01:05:04,319
complete. Okay.

1507
01:05:04,319 --> 01:05:10,000
>> Request any information um and then um

1508
01:05:10,000 --> 01:05:11,920
but scheduling a planning commission

1509
01:05:11,920 --> 01:05:15,599
kind of meeting takes longer than that.

1510
01:05:15,599 --> 01:05:21,839
>> Okay. Um yeah, I think generally there is an expectation that we review

1511
01:05:21,839 --> 01:05:23,760
things and come to a determination in a

1512
01:05:23,760 --> 01:05:24,880
timely fashion.

1513
01:05:24,880 --> 01:05:25,200
>> Okay.

1514
01:05:25,200 --> 01:05:28,400
>> I don't know that there's any specific

1515
01:05:28,400 --> 01:05:29,200
>> deadlines we pass

1516
01:05:29,200 --> 01:05:31,280
>> from a planning commission behavior. If

1517
01:05:31,280 --> 01:05:33,119
we table something like we've done with

1518
01:05:33,119 --> 01:05:36,640
this, we expect to review it again as

1519
01:05:36,640 --> 01:05:38,160
soon as the applicant is ready.

1520
01:05:38,160 --> 01:05:39,039
>> Okay, cool.

1521
01:05:39,039 --> 01:05:41,039
>> Right. Um but it is still our

1522
01:05:41,039 --> 01:05:44,079
requirement to to ensure that the

1523
01:05:44,079 --> 01:05:46,720
ordinances have been the ordinances and

1524
01:05:46,720 --> 01:05:48,319
the requirements have been met.

1525
01:05:48,319 --> 01:05:50,160
>> That's our primary.

1526
01:05:50,160 --> 01:05:51,039
>> Well, thank you. I

1527
01:05:51,039 --> 01:05:52,960
>> No, those are great questions.

1528
01:05:52,960 --> 01:05:54,160
>> Welcome to your first day.

1529
01:05:54,160 --> 01:05:55,520
>> Oh, well, thank you very much. Thank you

1530
01:05:55,520 --> 01:05:57,520
for asking and contributing so much.

1531
01:05:57,520 --> 01:05:59,760
Yeah.

1532
01:05:59,760 --> 01:06:01,440
>> So, with that, yeah, I I I know I'm not

1533
01:06:01,440 --> 01:06:03,839
a non- voting chair and I but

1534
01:06:03,839 --> 01:06:04,319
>> yeah,

1535
01:06:04,319 --> 01:06:06,720
>> but I'm anxious to see in the sake of my

1536
01:06:06,720 --> 01:06:08,240
personality. Okay. What's the bottom

1537
01:06:08,240 --> 01:06:12,000
line here? What are we coming up with?

1538
01:06:12,000 --> 01:06:15,039
>> So, I am on board with the denial. I am

1539
01:06:15,039 --> 01:06:18,160
not on board with um adding that second

1540
01:06:18,160 --> 01:06:20,240
finding in. I It just doesn't make sense

1541
01:06:20,240 --> 01:06:21,760
to me.

1542
01:06:21,760 --> 01:06:24,480
I I I know what you're saying

1543
01:06:24,480 --> 01:06:26,319
and the responsibility of making

1544
01:06:26,319 --> 01:06:30,079
decisions for the well-being of the

1545
01:06:30,079 --> 01:06:33,200
community and um but I feel like it's

1546
01:06:33,200 --> 01:06:34,960
putting in

1547
01:06:34,960 --> 01:06:37,520
and like using number five as an

1548
01:06:37,520 --> 01:06:41,680
instance like what is the instance?

1549
01:06:41,680 --> 01:06:44,000
Well, I guess you know it kind of a

1550
01:06:44,000 --> 01:06:46,000
little bit goes back to what Terry was

1551
01:06:46,000 --> 01:06:48,079
saying earlier is that had this been

1552
01:06:48,079 --> 01:06:51,599
done in the proper sequence um the

1553
01:06:51,599 --> 01:06:54,559
likelihood is that that that the the

1554
01:06:54,559 --> 01:06:56,240
technical geotechnical report would have

1555
01:06:56,240 --> 01:06:59,119
been required uh before we got you know

1556
01:06:59,119 --> 01:07:00,720
the grading permitted or anything else

1557
01:07:00,720 --> 01:07:02,799
that would have been a requirement to to

1558
01:07:02,799 --> 01:07:04,880
proceed. And because we found ourselves

1559
01:07:04,880 --> 01:07:07,039
now where the work's you know partially

1560
01:07:07,039 --> 01:07:10,160
been done [clears throat] and we're you

1561
01:07:10,160 --> 01:07:12,160
know we're asking for you know okay how

1562
01:07:12,160 --> 01:07:14,160
do we get this thing approved anyway and

1563
01:07:14,160 --> 01:07:16,160
which you know shouldn't be that's not

1564
01:07:16,160 --> 01:07:18,480
really our job our job is to figure out

1565
01:07:18,480 --> 01:07:21,599
is this the right thing. So if we

1566
01:07:21,599 --> 01:07:24,160
>> if we deny it based on findings, that's

1567
01:07:24,160 --> 01:07:28,000
not requiring any action though, right?

1568
01:07:28,000 --> 01:07:30,160
>> Um well, yeah, the applicant doesn't

1569
01:07:30,160 --> 01:07:32,319
have to take an action, but yeah,

1570
01:07:32,319 --> 01:07:34,079
>> I would assume generally the applicant

1571
01:07:34,079 --> 01:07:36,480
would want to come back,

1572
01:07:36,480 --> 01:07:36,880
>> right,

1573
01:07:36,880 --> 01:07:39,119
>> meet the findings and propose probably

1574
01:07:39,119 --> 01:07:42,000
propose a new DDR that addresses the

1575
01:07:42,000 --> 01:07:43,839
findings.

1576
01:07:43,839 --> 01:07:45,599
>> And I just don't know why we wouldn't

1577
01:07:45,599 --> 01:07:50,950
address that with a new application.

1578
01:07:50,960 --> 01:07:54,960
I I I I just I I I can't like deny it.

1579
01:07:54,960 --> 01:07:57,680
There's no application in front of us.

1580
01:07:57,680 --> 01:07:59,599
So,

1581
01:07:59,599 --> 01:08:01,920
um basically we're kind of back to

1582
01:08:01,920 --> 01:08:03,200
square one again.

1583
01:08:03,200 --> 01:08:04,559
>> Well, there is an application in front

1584
01:08:04,559 --> 01:08:04,960
of us.

1585
01:08:04,960 --> 01:08:06,720
>> Well, that we deny then there's then

1586
01:08:06,720 --> 01:08:07,280
there's nothing.

1587
01:08:07,280 --> 01:08:08,720
>> So, if we deny it, then yeah.

1588
01:08:08,720 --> 01:08:10,720
>> Yeah. Then we then we have a chance to

1589
01:08:10,720 --> 01:08:11,200
re

1590
01:08:11,200 --> 01:08:13,119
>> then he has a chance to come back and

1591
01:08:13,119 --> 01:08:16,239
>> yeah, right again or whatever and

1592
01:08:16,239 --> 01:08:21,189
>> we go through that process, right?

1593
01:08:21,199 --> 01:08:22,560
Kosh.

1594
01:08:22,560 --> 01:08:25,120
>> So I'm just wondering is that a

1595
01:08:25,120 --> 01:08:27,679
possibility for us to

1596
01:08:27,679 --> 01:08:30,799
put it on hold and let them come back

1597
01:08:30,799 --> 01:08:33,359
with what the necessary requirements are

1598
01:08:33,359 --> 01:08:36,640
and then we review it or do you prefer

1599
01:08:36,640 --> 01:08:40,799
denying it and then let them resubmit

1600
01:08:40,799 --> 01:08:43,120
a new application or

1601
01:08:43,120 --> 01:08:46,560
>> Well, we did that um you know at at the

1602
01:08:46,560 --> 01:08:49,120
prior meeting. we put it on hold and set

1603
01:08:49,120 --> 01:08:50,640
some stipulations that said, you know,

1604
01:08:50,640 --> 01:08:52,799
we need we we you know are looking for

1605
01:08:52,799 --> 01:08:54,799
the geotech report and and a few other

1606
01:08:54,799 --> 01:08:59,120
things. And so the the result of that

1607
01:08:59,120 --> 01:09:00,880
was that the applicants come back and

1608
01:09:00,880 --> 01:09:03,679
said um yeah, he doesn't want to do the

1609
01:09:03,679 --> 01:09:06,239
geotech report, but the other things

1610
01:09:06,239 --> 01:09:09,279
here's here's my answer to that. Um

1611
01:09:09,279 --> 01:09:11,199
>> and so we have the choice now to say,

1612
01:09:11,199 --> 01:09:13,440
well, that's not what we wanted. We can

1613
01:09:13,440 --> 01:09:14,880
just flat out deny it

1614
01:09:14,880 --> 01:09:16,560
>> or we can say, "Well, give you one more

1615
01:09:16,560 --> 01:09:18,560
chance. We'll table it again and and

1616
01:09:18,560 --> 01:09:19,600
continue on."

1617
01:09:19,600 --> 01:09:22,239
>> Yeah. Because we have I we have more

1618
01:09:22,239 --> 01:09:23,759
information at this point that we didn't

1619
01:09:23,759 --> 01:09:26,000
have previously, right?

1620
01:09:26,000 --> 01:09:28,400
>> Some, but not completely.

1621
01:09:28,400 --> 01:09:30,640
>> I would I would vote against

1622
01:09:30,640 --> 01:09:33,120
tableabling. We've tabled twice.

1623
01:09:33,120 --> 01:09:33,440
>> Yeah,

1624
01:09:33,440 --> 01:09:36,480
>> I agree. and and in the and in the

1625
01:09:36,480 --> 01:09:40,880
effort to be to produce to go through

1626
01:09:40,880 --> 01:09:43,199
our actions quickly tableabling again

1627
01:09:43,199 --> 01:09:46,960
further delays. Um and the issue we're

1628
01:09:46,960 --> 01:09:49,359
talking about is in the previous meeting

1629
01:09:49,359 --> 01:09:52,640
we already requested that the DCD

1630
01:09:52,640 --> 01:09:55,120
request the geotechnical report. The

1631
01:09:55,120 --> 01:09:57,760
applicant replied no they don't want to

1632
01:09:57,760 --> 01:10:00,400
do that with their justifications.

1633
01:10:00,400 --> 01:10:02,480
So I think we yet we are at a state now

1634
01:10:02,480 --> 01:10:05,840
where we either where we well I think

1635
01:10:05,840 --> 01:10:07,840
we're going to deny and the real

1636
01:10:07,840 --> 01:10:13,120
question is do we deny both option both

1637
01:10:13,120 --> 01:10:15,760
findings or just the one.

1638
01:10:15,760 --> 01:10:18,719
Um I I think tableabling

1639
01:10:18,719 --> 01:10:20,159
is something we've already done a couple

1640
01:10:20,159 --> 01:10:21,600
times and kind of doesn't I don't think

1641
01:10:21,600 --> 01:10:24,640
makes sense at this point because

1642
01:10:24,640 --> 01:10:27,199
the the applicant has already said that

1643
01:10:27,199 --> 01:10:30,480
he doesn't believe that a geotechnical

1644
01:10:30,480 --> 01:10:32,800
report is required.

1645
01:10:32,800 --> 01:10:36,000
So tableabling and requesting it again

1646
01:10:36,000 --> 01:10:39,280
doesn't change anything.

1647
01:10:39,280 --> 01:10:40,880
>> Well in terms of denying I mean we can

1648
01:10:40,880 --> 01:10:43,600
deny it. We can deny it based on the

1649
01:10:43,600 --> 01:10:47,600
refusal of the applicant to uh you know

1650
01:10:47,600 --> 01:10:49,199
address our concerns.

1651
01:10:49,199 --> 01:10:49,600
>> Yeah.

1652
01:10:49,600 --> 01:10:50,719
>> So it doesn't have to be one or the

1653
01:10:50,719 --> 01:10:52,560
other. We can say flat out it's denied.

1654
01:10:52,560 --> 01:10:53,840
Then then you can come back through

1655
01:10:53,840 --> 01:10:55,840
start a new go through the process go

1656
01:10:55,840 --> 01:10:58,159
you know work with the the DCD and try

1657
01:10:58,159 --> 01:11:00,320
and figure out how to you know come up

1658
01:11:00,320 --> 01:11:02,960
with a new new solution. I would like to

1659
01:11:02,960 --> 01:11:04,239
>> it's without prejudice

1660
01:11:04,239 --> 01:11:08,800
>> see it denied based on not meeting

1661
01:11:08,800 --> 01:11:12,400
the requirements of the commercial use

1662
01:11:12,400 --> 01:11:15,760
and then have the opportunity to look at

1663
01:11:15,760 --> 01:11:19,440
what is presented in the future and

1664
01:11:19,440 --> 01:11:21,679
consider everything at that time.

1665
01:11:21,679 --> 01:11:24,719
>> Well, if we deny it, my belief is that

1666
01:11:24,719 --> 01:11:27,920
it's a it's a start over. I mean it, you

1667
01:11:27,920 --> 01:11:29,679
know, he can come back with whatever he

1668
01:11:29,679 --> 01:11:33,600
wants and apply as if it was a new uh a

1669
01:11:33,600 --> 01:11:35,760
new well, it will be a new application.

1670
01:11:35,760 --> 01:11:37,600
And so we don't have to, you know, we're

1671
01:11:37,600 --> 01:11:41,360
not saying uh you know, by for whatever

1672
01:11:41,360 --> 01:11:43,360
reason we give for denying it.

1673
01:11:43,360 --> 01:11:45,280
>> If we just flat out deny it, he comes

1674
01:11:45,280 --> 01:11:47,120
back and starts a new.

1675
01:11:47,120 --> 01:11:47,440
>> Yeah.

1676
01:11:47,440 --> 01:11:48,880
>> And so we don't have to say it's because

1677
01:11:48,880 --> 01:11:50,320
of this or because of that or or

1678
01:11:50,320 --> 01:11:52,320
anything else in that regard.

1679
01:11:52,320 --> 01:11:53,679
>> It's not going to change what he comes

1680
01:11:53,679 --> 01:11:54,560
back new with.

1681
01:11:54,560 --> 01:11:56,800
>> Right. And we knew we need a finding,

1682
01:11:56,800 --> 01:11:58,480
but you know,

1683
01:11:58,480 --> 01:12:00,320
>> yes, you definitely need findings. We

1684
01:12:00,320 --> 01:12:01,360
need findings. Yes,

1685
01:12:01,360 --> 01:12:03,199
>> I could see you getting [laughter] all

1686
01:12:03,199 --> 01:12:04,320
what

1687
01:12:04,320 --> 01:12:06,480
>> I mean, can we just say it doesn't meet

1688
01:12:06,480 --> 01:12:08,960
the requirements of commercial use? Is

1689
01:12:08,960 --> 01:12:11,520
that finding sufficient enough? Do we

1690
01:12:11,520 --> 01:12:13,920
have to say why it doesn't meet the

1691
01:12:13,920 --> 01:12:16,640
requirement of commercial use? Yes. So,

1692
01:12:16,640 --> 01:12:18,159
>> I don't think we need to say why. I

1693
01:12:18,159 --> 01:12:19,600
think we just refer to the ordinance and

1694
01:12:19,600 --> 01:12:22,159
say it doesn't meet that ordinance. I I

1695
01:12:22,159 --> 01:12:24,000
think you want to refer to maybe the

1696
01:12:24,000 --> 01:12:25,760
specifics. You maybe don't need to

1697
01:12:25,760 --> 01:12:28,239
recite the whole section, but it would

1698
01:12:28,239 --> 01:12:30,640
be useful to refer to those

1699
01:12:30,640 --> 01:12:32,560
>> refer to the specific ordinance require

1700
01:12:32,560 --> 01:12:34,159
about the commercial use that that

1701
01:12:34,159 --> 01:12:36,480
particular paragraph and state

1702
01:12:36,480 --> 01:12:40,080
>> that paragraph and and again I don't

1703
01:12:40,080 --> 01:12:42,159
think we should try to predict what the

1704
01:12:42,159 --> 01:12:46,320
applicant will do based on that.

1705
01:12:46,320 --> 01:12:48,080
Um,

1706
01:12:48,080 --> 01:12:50,560
and I don't know. Do you want to do a

1707
01:12:50,560 --> 01:12:52,239
thumbs up, thumbs down here or how you

1708
01:12:52,239 --> 01:12:54,640
want to go with this?

1709
01:12:54,640 --> 01:13:04,390
>> I'm just really trying to understand why

1710
01:13:04,400 --> 01:13:06,400
because do we really know because we

1711
01:13:06,400 --> 01:13:08,480
don't really know what all of the

1712
01:13:08,480 --> 01:13:11,280
options are for commercial use. Well,

1713
01:13:11,280 --> 01:13:12,800
again, I think

1714
01:13:12,800 --> 01:13:14,400
>> so that's what that's what keeps coming

1715
01:13:14,400 --> 01:13:17,679
back to me like we we can't list that as

1716
01:13:17,679 --> 01:13:19,760
part of doesn't meet the requirement of

1717
01:13:19,760 --> 01:13:22,640
commercial use because of um getting

1718
01:13:22,640 --> 01:13:24,960
that report because we don't even know

1719
01:13:24,960 --> 01:13:27,040
what the other options are.

1720
01:13:27,040 --> 01:13:29,520
>> Well, again, it would not be related

1721
01:13:29,520 --> 01:13:30,719
>> it would not anything

1722
01:13:30,719 --> 01:13:32,000
>> to the commercial report.

1723
01:13:32,000 --> 01:13:32,400
>> Yeah. Yeah,

1724
01:13:32,400 --> 01:13:36,719
>> it would be related to our perception

1725
01:13:36,719 --> 01:13:40,239
our our our requirement our goal

1726
01:13:40,239 --> 01:13:43,120
whatever our of of protecting the safety

1727
01:13:43,120 --> 01:13:44,640
health and welfare of the citizens and

1728
01:13:44,640 --> 01:13:47,520
infrastructure and for that purpose

1729
01:13:47,520 --> 01:13:49,360
independent use

1730
01:13:49,360 --> 01:13:50,159
>> I would connect

1731
01:13:50,159 --> 01:13:52,480
>> we would we would see or we would say

1732
01:13:52,480 --> 01:13:55,920
that we don't know whether the risk has

1733
01:13:55,920 --> 01:13:57,679
been made worse or not

1734
01:13:57,679 --> 01:14:01,280
>> I would be more

1735
01:14:01,280 --> 01:14:03,600
Um, it would make more sense to me if it

1736
01:14:03,600 --> 01:14:06,800
was connected to the commercial use.

1737
01:14:06,800 --> 01:14:08,480
>> That wouldn't make sense to me at all.

1738
01:14:08,480 --> 01:14:11,679
>> Well, because it doesn't um because it's

1739
01:14:11,679 --> 01:14:13,440
a place of occupancy.

1740
01:14:13,440 --> 01:14:13,760
>> No.

1741
01:14:13,760 --> 01:14:15,520
>> And when there's a place of occupancy,

1742
01:14:15,520 --> 01:14:19,910
it requires a report.

1743
01:14:19,920 --> 01:14:23,120
» So, that would be all taken care of in a

1744
01:14:23,120 --> 01:14:24,080
future.

1745
01:14:24,080 --> 01:14:24,480
>> Yes.

1746
01:14:24,480 --> 01:14:25,199
>> Proposal.

1747
01:14:25,199 --> 01:14:25,920
>> Yes. That's

1748
01:14:25,920 --> 01:14:26,880
>> where we're occupancy, right?

1749
01:14:26,880 --> 01:14:30,400
>> Yes. What wouldn't be taken care of is

1750
01:14:30,400 --> 01:14:33,520
whether we still feel that we don't know

1751
01:14:33,520 --> 01:14:36,080
whether the risk has been made worse or

1752
01:14:36,080 --> 01:14:39,920
not by the excavation.

1753
01:14:39,920 --> 01:14:41,840
>> Can can I make a a comment?

1754
01:14:41,840 --> 01:14:42,480
>> Yeah.

1755
01:14:42,480 --> 01:14:45,520
>> If if you were saying we don't know,

1756
01:14:45,520 --> 01:14:47,440
>> that's probably not a sufficient finding

1757
01:14:47,440 --> 01:14:48,719
to deny something.

1758
01:14:48,719 --> 01:14:50,960
>> Probably not. So, I would recommend you

1759
01:14:50,960 --> 01:14:54,400
stick to the things that you can clearly

1760
01:14:54,400 --> 01:14:56,159
point to like Nyall said in the

1761
01:14:56,159 --> 01:14:58,960
ordinance that either comply or do not

1762
01:14:58,960 --> 01:15:02,960
comply. And the the thing that based on

1763
01:15:02,960 --> 01:15:07,520
your discussion so far, the thing that I think you are all feeling most clearly

1764
01:15:07,520 --> 01:15:11,600
does not comply is that a mobile

1765
01:15:11,600 --> 01:15:14,880
uh food business is not a commercial use

1766
01:15:14,880 --> 01:15:16,880
developed on the property because of the

1767
01:15:16,880 --> 01:15:20,000
definition that you vegetary.

1768
01:15:20,000 --> 01:15:26,159
That seems to be something that you you have concrete findings for that's linked to the ordinance that you

1769
01:15:26,159 --> 01:15:28,960
can make some some solid findings with.

1770
01:15:28,960 --> 01:15:30,560
>> Yeah. If you have if you have to make a

1771
01:15:30,560 --> 01:15:32,080
finding saying, "Well, we're not sure.

1772
01:15:32,080 --> 01:15:33,760
We don't know. We may need more

1773
01:15:33,760 --> 01:15:35,280
information,"

1774
01:15:35,280 --> 01:15:37,360
that's that's not a sufficient reason to

1775
01:15:37,360 --> 01:15:38,880
deny something.

1776
01:15:38,880 --> 01:15:40,560
>> And that's why I don't think we should

1777
01:15:40,560 --> 01:15:42,320
put that in there. To me, it seems like

1778
01:15:42,320 --> 01:15:45,520
it's doesn't it's not

1779
01:15:45,520 --> 01:15:55,669
what we're our decision.

1780
01:15:55,679 --> 01:15:58,560
» Well, I'm I can make a a motion. And

1781
01:15:58,560 --> 01:16:01,360
like I said, I I

1782
01:16:01,360 --> 01:16:03,440
am, you know, willing to go either way.

1783
01:16:03,440 --> 01:16:05,440
So, I'm willing to go the way you said

1784
01:16:05,440 --> 01:16:07,440
and the way that the staff recommends.

1785
01:16:07,440 --> 01:16:09,280
And I think this Tom has made a good

1786
01:16:09,280 --> 01:16:12,800
point that it's hard to make a finding

1787
01:16:12,800 --> 01:16:16,239
on well, we don't really know what what

1788
01:16:16,239 --> 01:16:19,040
whether the risk changed or not.

1789
01:16:19,040 --> 01:16:21,920
I think that we should discuss this in a

1790
01:16:21,920 --> 01:16:25,199
work meeting because maybe we need

1791
01:16:25,199 --> 01:16:28,719
something cleaner in the ordinances to

1792
01:16:28,719 --> 01:16:31,840
handle this situation where where as a

1793
01:16:31,840 --> 01:16:33,440
planning commission we have information

1794
01:16:33,440 --> 01:16:36,480
that implies that the risk could been

1795
01:16:36,480 --> 01:16:38,320
made worse, but we don't have the

1796
01:16:38,320 --> 01:16:42,719
expertise to know that. Um, but the

1797
01:16:42,719 --> 01:16:44,480
ordinances we have today don't really

1798
01:16:44,480 --> 01:16:47,280
give us an opportunity

1799
01:16:47,280 --> 01:16:49,840
or give us the structure to deal with

1800
01:16:49,840 --> 01:16:54,470
that. I think

1801
01:16:54,480 --> 01:16:56,080
» I'm willing to make a motion if we're

1802
01:16:56,080 --> 01:16:57,440
ready. Go for it.

1803
01:16:57,440 --> 01:17:00,320
>> I'm ready.

1804
01:17:00,320 --> 01:17:02,000
The planning commission commission

1805
01:17:02,000 --> 01:17:04,080
denies the design development review

1806
01:17:04,080 --> 01:17:06,880
application for expansion of the parking

1807
01:17:06,880 --> 01:17:09,520
lot at 50 Zion Park Boulevard as

1808
01:17:09,520 --> 01:17:12,560
discussed at the August 19th, 2026

1809
01:17:12,560 --> 01:17:14,880
meeting. The motion is based on the

1810
01:17:14,880 --> 01:17:16,719
following finding.

1811
01:17:16,719 --> 01:17:19,040
The mobile business proposed to fulfill

1812
01:17:19,040 --> 01:17:20,719
the integrated commercial use

1813
01:17:20,719 --> 01:17:23,199
requirement does not re meet the

1814
01:17:23,199 --> 01:17:27,360
requirements of title 10 chapter 23-10

1815
01:17:27,360 --> 01:17:30,800
paragraph D of the Springdale town code

1816
01:17:30,800 --> 01:17:32,880
which states that the commercial use

1817
01:17:32,880 --> 01:17:36,080
must be developed on the same property

1818
01:17:36,080 --> 01:17:44,229
as the public parking area.

1819
01:17:44,239 --> 01:17:46,800
Second

1820
01:17:46,800 --> 01:17:49,440
>> motion by Terry, second by Paul. All in

1821
01:17:49,440 --> 01:17:51,360
favor?

1822
01:17:51,360 --> 01:17:52,320
>> Terry I.

1823
01:17:52,320 --> 01:17:53,280
>> Jennifer I.

1824
01:17:53,280 --> 01:17:54,320
>> Paul I.

1825
01:17:54,320 --> 01:17:56,159
>> Hash I.

1826
01:17:56,159 --> 01:18:04,709
>> Motion passes.

1827
01:18:04,719 --> 01:18:06,000
» Okay.

1828
01:18:06,000 --> 01:18:08,080
>> Thank you for the clarity. Really I feel

1829
01:18:08,080 --> 01:18:09,520
like I have a direction now. I know what

1830
01:18:09,520 --> 01:18:11,679
to do. I realize the concern with the

1831
01:18:11,679 --> 01:18:14,719
occupancy and the business. I I I I feel

1832
01:18:14,719 --> 01:18:16,239
like I understand what Tom said today

1833
01:18:16,239 --> 01:18:18,080
really well about why you would have a

1834
01:18:18,080 --> 01:18:20,159
geotechnical investigation, foundations,

1835
01:18:20,159 --> 01:18:21,760
things like that. And I and so I'll be

1836
01:18:21,760 --> 01:18:23,600
coming back and I think it's smart at

1837
01:18:23,600 --> 01:18:25,199
the time that I come back to say, "Yeah,

1838
01:18:25,199 --> 01:18:26,560
this is what we will require of you for

1839
01:18:26,560 --> 01:18:28,880
this new application." I would also say

1840
01:18:28,880 --> 01:18:30,960
if any of you are willing, I am again

1841
01:18:30,960 --> 01:18:32,880
begging and asking if any of you would

1842
01:18:32,880 --> 01:18:34,560
like to go up and walk that with me so I

1843
01:18:34,560 --> 01:18:36,320
can show you what I did, the height, the

1844
01:18:36,320 --> 01:18:38,640
cuts, and everything. I in listening to

1845
01:18:38,640 --> 01:18:40,640
Paul's last comment, it's really clear

1846
01:18:40,640 --> 01:18:42,800
that between the two plans, he's still

1847
01:18:42,800 --> 01:18:45,040
like, "Wait, wait, why is this?" I mean,

1848
01:18:45,040 --> 01:18:46,480
I'd love to show you. That's all I'm

1849
01:18:46,480 --> 01:18:47,920
going to say. But thank you for your

1850
01:18:47,920 --> 01:18:48,320
time.

1851
01:18:48,320 --> 01:18:50,480
>> Thank you.

1852
01:18:50,480 --> 01:18:53,679
Okay, moving on to the consent agenda.

1853
01:18:53,679 --> 01:18:55,840
Um, approval of minutes from the July

1854
01:18:55,840 --> 01:18:59,520
1st, 2026 special meeting.

1855
01:18:59,520 --> 01:19:02,719
Is there a motion to approve?

1856
01:19:02,719 --> 01:19:06,480
>> I'll make a motion to approve.

1857
01:19:06,480 --> 01:19:08,800
Is there a second?

1858
01:19:08,800 --> 01:19:10,880
>> I'll second.

1859
01:19:10,880 --> 01:19:13,679
>> Motion by Terry, second by Paul. All in

1860
01:19:13,679 --> 01:19:14,480
favor?

1861
01:19:14,480 --> 01:19:15,280
>> Terry I.

1862
01:19:15,280 --> 01:19:16,480
>> Jennifer I.

1863
01:19:16,480 --> 01:19:17,440
>> Paul I.

1864
01:19:17,440 --> 01:19:18,640
>> Hashi.

1865
01:19:18,640 --> 01:19:21,679
>> Motion passes. Is there a motion to

1866
01:19:21,679 --> 01:19:22,960
adjurnn?

1867
01:19:22,960 --> 01:19:24,880
>> I'll move we adjourn.

1868
01:19:24,880 --> 01:19:28,390
>> Is there a second?

1869
01:19:28,400 --> 01:19:30,239
» I second.

1870
01:19:30,239 --> 01:19:32,880
>> Motion by Paul, second by Kosh. All in

1871
01:19:32,880 --> 01:19:33,520
favor?

1872
01:19:33,520 --> 01:19:35,600
>> Terry I. Jennifer I

1873
01:19:35,600 --> 01:19:37,920
>> all I

1874
01:19:37,920 --> 01:19:47,110
>> meeting is adjourned.

1875
01:19:47,120 --> 01:19:50,520
» How are you here?