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All right. Thank you to the recording
voice.

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I'm going to call the Springfield City
Council work session to order with roll

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call.
>> Mayor Van Gordon.

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» Here.
>> Councilor Weber.

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» Here.
>> Councilor Moe.

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» Here.
>> Councilor Roddy.

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» Here.
>> Councilor Quadros.

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» Here.
>> Councilor Buck.

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» Here.
>> And Councilor Stout.

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» Here. Thank you.
>> And welcome back to the council and the

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staff. We are meeting for the first time
since June.

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We have two items this evening. The
first one is the city manager 2026

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performance evaluation introduction and
criteria setting with Jim Herz.

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» Good evening, Mayor and Council. Welcome
back.

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Uh, the purpose of tonight is to
introduce uh Council to Eric Jensen

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uh and also to kind of outline the
stages of the city manager evaluation

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process. Uh your packet
uh included some materials from Eric uh

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and for everybody else uh part of the
city manager's employment contract

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requires an annual evaluation by City
Council.

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Uh and that process is facilitated by
Eric Jensen. So, with that I will turn

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it over to Eric.

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There. Once it's Okay.
Yeah, technology is not my thing.

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Um
hi, I'm Eric Jensen. I am the uh

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principal and founder of Jensen
Strategies.

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Um we are a management consulting firm
uh

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that works exclusively with the public
sector and with local and state

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government. Um it's a pleasure to be
back here again. Um

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we uh helped uh last year with the
evaluation process and um

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uh are happy to be here again to see to
see all of you and I know some of you I

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haven't met yet and looking forward to
talking with you as well.

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Um I wanted to just uh take a moment and
let you also meet a member of our other

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of our team that is going to be
assisting me with this process and he

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assisted last year some of you may have
been interviewed by him, but I'm going

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to let him do his own introduction and
he's on he's on virtual back there with

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the blue screen.
>> Thanks Eric and good evening. I'm Aaron

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Council. My name is Jeff Aprati. Uh, as
Eric mentioned I uh

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am very happy to be a part of this
process. I did assist with the

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interviews and the report writing for
the evaluation process last year.

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Um, just very briefly about me is I
was previously a city manager myself for

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short time on the Oregon coast number of
years ago too many years ago at this

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point. And then worked for Jensen
Strategies full-time as a management

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consultant for about 4 years. And then
over the last 6 years I have served the

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city of Sandy where I am currently
the deputy city manager, but I still

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help out Jensen Strategies on projects
from time to time and very happy

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to be part of this process. So, thank
you very much.

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» Thank you, Jeff.
Um, so tonight

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what we're looking for from you is just
to get

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a little bit of guidance here in terms
of

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in terms of your general agreement that
we're going down the right path in terms

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of the criteria that we have proposed to
you that was sent out to you in the

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packet.
Um, but I'll I'll first tell you a

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little bit about the process and for
those of you who may not have

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been through the process last time.
Uh, and then circle back and talk a

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little bit about the criteria.
So,

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the way this process works we establish
the criteria up front and

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following that we then do a series of
interviews. Um, the interviews are

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confidential interviews that we do by
Zoom.

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And we will
we will interview all of the council

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members. We will interview all of the
executive team and any other direct

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reports to the city manager.
Um as well as

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the city attorney.
And

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this year we're also going to be talking
to some community leaders as well.

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Um so we will uh get through that
process and that usually takes about 3

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weeks. We would
given the go-ahead we're going to go

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we'll excuse me. We will start
scheduling next week for the interviews

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and they will probably run into the
beginning of October. So generally takes

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about 3 weeks to kind of
to get everybody. At that point

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we will write up a report of our
findings and the and the report is

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anonymous from the standpoint of nothing
in our report is should be attributable

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to any one individual who was
interviewed during the process. And

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so we will and that report will be and
the interviews and the questions in the

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interviews will be based upon the
criteria that

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we are presenting to you tonight.
The

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following
the writing of the report we will meet

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with you in executive session
and I will present a draft of the report

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to you in executive session
so that you have a chance to ask

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questions
of us in terms of

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anything that needs some clarity
or anything that you would like to see

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expounded upon
in the report. But basically just an

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opportunity that to ask questions with
regard to the report. I will also do the

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same with your city manager. I will sit
with your city manager one-on-one and,

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uh, review the report with her as well.
Following that, uh, then we have

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another, and that, by the way, that, um,
city council executive session is

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scheduled for October 19th.
Um, so we we plan to be sticking to that

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schedule. Uh, following that, then we
will have a session with the council and

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the city manager together where the city
manager has an opportunity to share some

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perspectives, uh, with regard to what
was in the report, and you have an

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opportunity for a facilitated discussion
with your city manager, um, with regard

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to the evaluation and and the report. At
that same, uh, executive session, you

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will fill out an evaluation form like
you did last year for those of you that

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were here last year.
Um, and that evaluation form will come

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back to us. We will summarize it, and
then we will, uh, send it back, uh, to

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the mayor, the city manager, and the HR
director.

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Um,
so that's

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that's the the process. Um, by the way,
I didn't mention the date of that, uh,

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second executive session, which is on
November 9th.

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So just, uh, to have on your calendars.
Um,

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so
Uh, and first of all, any questions

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about the process before I move on talk
about criteria?

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» Uh, Council Roddy.
>> I might be jumping the gun cuz you're

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going to talk about criteria, and my
question is about what, um, I think it

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said in there that we did 14 last year
and we went down to 12, so I'm curious

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as to how it's changed cuz I like having
a baseline to build on, but you're

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probably getting to that part.
>> Yes, I am, Council, but but thank you

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for asking the question. Uh, gives me a
nice transition into that.

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» Anybody else that have questions about
timing?

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All right.
All right.

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» Okay, so um I also uh brought tonight a
handout. It's a one-page handout that

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you should have in front of you in
addition to what you have in the packet.

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And um
that handout is of the ICMA

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core competencies. And just as a
reminder or if if you weren't around

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last year, um ICMA is the International
City City Managers Association. It's a

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professional organization that
um uh for which county and city managers

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belong and they have a code of ethics
that uh they need to follow uh to be uh

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part of that. And
um they also go through a training

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process um
uh at ICMA. Not everybody, it's

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voluntary, to become uh
an ICMA credentialed manager.

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In that training, they use 14 core
competencies

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um in evaluating uh the city managers
for that that credential.

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And their training touches all 14 of
those points. And that's what you see

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there in that circle diagram, if you
will, uh

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are the 14 core competencies
and

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that really focus in on, you know, what
are the principles that the city manager

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should be employing,
how should they lead uh those

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principles, and um
what how do they move forward with the

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purposes uh of the government, the local
government, and the organization,

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and what are the skill sets that they
use in doing that. So, that that's what

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you have in and in this uh document
here. Last year, we used all 14 core

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competencies as counselor
brought up.

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And what we have found as we've done
more of these city manager evaluations

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is that a few of the criteria really are
pretty closely aligned. And so

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we thought it would be better to
to do some consolidation. And so what

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you see in the 12 criteria that we sent
to you is really not omitting anything

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from the 14 core competencies, but
rather bringing in a couple of them

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together. So we're going to be asking
about the same types of questions, the

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same issues, and it's going to be based
on the ICMA 14 core competencies

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with those 12 that we had put in your
packet.

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Um
Counselor, does that answer your

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question?

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Okay, good.
Excellent. Excellent.

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Um
But let me just briefly walk through

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these 12 and
this is as a refresher and also to see

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see 12 instead of 14.
So the first criteria here are is

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personnel and professional integrity.
Is your city manager being fair, honest,

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and ethical in all personal and
professional relationships and

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activities?
Goes to goes to the heart of

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ethics and fairness, objectivity.
The second is community engagement. And

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that is has to do with how your city
manager is ensuring that Um, there is

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uh, community involvement in local
government to support uh, good

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decision-making.
Um, and is supportive of uh, diverse

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viewpoints and bringing diverse
viewpoints into the

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uh,
in into the discussion.

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Um, uh, equity and inclusion.
Uh, this is just creating an environment

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of involvement, respect, uh, connection
of diverse ideas and backgrounds,

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cultures, and talent throughout the
organization.

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Uh,
and

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really come and comes down to inclusion,
uh, being

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a core part of that. So, the fourth one
is staff effectiveness, and this has to

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do with
is your city manager uh, taking the

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responsibility to to help uh, develop
uh,

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and make your employees successful in
their jobs and in their careers uh,

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moving forward. Um, and do they support
the best management practices

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uh,
that foster a respectful and a positive

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work environment, set clear expectation,
delegate and empower staff, and they

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maintain accountability in their
management style.

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The fifth
uh, the fifth is uh, personal resiliency

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and development. This really goes back
to how well is is your city manager

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taking care of themselves, both
personally and professionally.

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Um, are they uh, leading a balanced life
that's going to make them a more

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productive city manager
uh, as any employee would you know,

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would be uh,
leading a balanced life.

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Um, but also looking at their
professional development and are they

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keeping up with their professional
development

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uh, to increase their capacity on the
job.

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Six is to strategic leadership and
planning, uh, defining and communicating

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a vision and leveraging all resources
and tools to achieve it.

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And
this has to do with our are they taking

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a strategic approach to the job? Are
they taking a strategic approach to to

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moving this the city forward in the in
the operations of the city and in the

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decision-making
of the city moving forward.

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Are they presenting a unified vision? Is
there a core mission

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of for the organization
and are

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and are there proactive approaches that
are being taken

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to

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proactive strategic approaches to
complex issues and problems that are

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coming up.
Seven,

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policy facilitation and implementation.
This really gets at the heart of

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your city manager's interactions and
support of you as a council.

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And
are

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is your city manager engaging you
and other appointed officials and

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stakeholders
to create common goals and objectives?

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Are they providing you with the
information that you need to make solid

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decisions, solid policy decisions as a
city council moving moving forward. And

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um
do

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do they understand the role that they
play with the council?

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And in terms of being able to
uh

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you know, respecting the role and the
authority of the council and

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understanding where they are in
in relation to their relationship with

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you.
Um and can they effectively

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move policy into the operational realm?
Do they have the ability to take the

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policies that you folks come up with and
turn that around and move that into the

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operational side of the city, which is
the the side of the city that they run?

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Um,
service delivery, uh, discerning uh,

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community needs and providing responsive
equitable services. Are they providing

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of the services that the city provides
to your community?

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Are they providing responsive and
equitable services, uh, to your

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community members? Um,
and are they being strategic about it

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and also thinking about are they being
strategic about it in terms of a

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multi-disciplinary
uh, a multi-disciplinary department

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organization?
That

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your
when you've got issues that cross

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departments, are they bringing all the
right people, uh,

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into into play and and moving things
forward?

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Um, technology literacy, um, this does
not mean that they know how to code.

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Um, technology literacy is really just
having that understanding of how

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technology can be used in your
organization

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in
uh, for for the city to be able to

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deliver its services, um,
for all for all the different aspects

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that the city, uh,
engages in. Do they understand

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how to move technology forward in that
regard and and at least have that, uh,

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understanding of of uh,
uh,

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uh, of what those tools are. Um, that
that they can employ.

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Financial management and budgeting is
pretty straightforward, but are they

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implementing a long-term financial uh
plan that integrates strategic planning

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and reflects the community's values in
the budget as well as uh

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just um
and the council's priorities and as well

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00:17:40,320 --> 00:17:46,120
as
administering the day-to-day of the

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budget and making sure that the budget
is

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moving forward effectively.
And then human resources management and

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workforce engagement
are they ensuring that there are

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policies and procedures for the
operational side of the organization?

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Um are they motivating and engaging the
workforce

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uh to their greatest potential? Uh do
they for do they um

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00:18:11,280 --> 00:18:21,080
foster a work environment that is
a work environment that's attractive

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attractive to new employees coming in
attractive to retaining your

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good talent in the organization.
Um and also under that umbrella is also

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do they understand collective bargaining
as well.

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And then lastly communication and
information sharing this really has to

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00:18:39,840 --> 00:18:48,320
do with is your is your city manager
making sure that information is flowing

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where it needs to go.
And that includes making sure the

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information's getting to the council
that the council needs to have.

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Um it also means getting information to
the community

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00:18:59,000 --> 00:19:09,920
so that the community is getting the
information that they need as as well.

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00:19:04,920 --> 00:19:15,400
Um and and among staff as well. So it's
that entire flow of information and of

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00:19:12,520 --> 00:19:19,720
making sure that um
that that's moving effectively so that

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00:19:17,480 --> 00:19:26,080
the organization can work at its very
best uh moving forward.

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Those are the 12 criteria. Um
any questions about those? I'm going to

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move on here to the goals for a second.
But I counselor Stone.

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Then let's keep going.
Okay. So the one thing that is different

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this year than uh last year uh last year
we

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uh
uh we went through a goal-setting

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00:19:46,480 --> 00:19:51,440
session
um with your uh

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00:19:49,640 --> 00:19:56,360
with your city manager
and you came up with a series of six

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00:19:53,800 --> 00:20:02,600
goals uh that you would like wanted her
to make progress on and or to achieve uh

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00:20:00,200 --> 00:20:06,960
during 2026.
And so since those goals were

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00:20:04,440 --> 00:20:14,000
established, we are also incorporating
them in as part of the criteria in terms

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00:20:10,840 --> 00:20:17,080
of okay, how far have those goals been
moved uh uh

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00:20:15,400 --> 00:20:21,640
and uh
has uh your city manager done what is

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00:20:20,000 --> 00:20:27,320
reasonable
to do to move those goals forward.

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00:20:25,160 --> 00:20:30,920
Um so those are going to be the criteria
that we're going to use overall. Any

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00:20:29,120 --> 00:20:33,720
questions
about that?

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00:20:35,400 --> 00:20:42,000
Not seeing any. Uh okay. Thank you very
much.

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00:20:39,360 --> 00:20:46,680
Um the other uh
the other uh piece I wanted to show you

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00:20:44,160 --> 00:20:52,720
very quickly is also in your packet and
that is the evaluation form. What you

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00:20:49,080 --> 00:20:57,400
have in front of you in that uh is an
evaluation form that just mirrors what I

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00:20:55,360 --> 00:21:00,240
just walked through with you.
And

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00:20:58,520 --> 00:21:06,360
when you get to that point, you will
have the ability to rate your city

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00:21:03,480 --> 00:21:13,360
manager based on each of these criteria
on a scale of one to five with five

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00:21:09,560 --> 00:21:17,840
being far exceeding expectations to one
being far below expectations. And then

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00:21:15,840 --> 00:21:21,600
you've got everything in between
as well.

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So this is what we would present to you
at that last meeting

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00:21:23,760 --> 00:21:29,520
executive session. Uh
when you fill that out.

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Um
So what I

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00:21:31,120 --> 00:21:36,320
I would uh
uh

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00:21:33,640 --> 00:21:40,720
like to ask is
I I should also let you know that prior

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00:21:38,800 --> 00:21:45,560
to this meeting this afternoon, I met
with your city manager.

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And uh I asked her if she was
comfortable with the criteria that I

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00:21:47,720 --> 00:21:54,840
just outlined. And unless anything's
changed in the last hour or two,

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00:21:53,520 --> 00:21:58,560
uh I think
your city manager has agreed that these

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00:21:56,880 --> 00:22:03,440
are criteria that she's comfortable
with, but we want to make sure you're

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00:22:00,080 --> 00:22:03,440
comfortable with them as well.

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00:22:04,000 --> 00:22:10,960
» All right. Uh counselor Stone.
>> Um last year well

283
00:22:09,400 --> 00:22:14,720
So this is your second year doing this
process with us and I just wanted to

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00:22:13,040 --> 00:22:18,640
remark on what a pleasure it was to go
through the process to feel like

285
00:22:16,960 --> 00:22:22,960
I felt like both sides were heard and we
were able to have a really honest and

286
00:22:20,400 --> 00:22:26,760
straightforward conversation and find
even those little dark areas where we we

287
00:22:25,040 --> 00:22:30,960
didn't realize we weren't communicating
about certain things. So this is a great

288
00:22:29,520 --> 00:22:37,000
process. I'm looking forward to doing it
again. Um so I have one one two small

289
00:22:35,240 --> 00:22:40,720
questions. One is
uh what advice do you have for people

290
00:22:38,840 --> 00:22:44,840
repeating the form?
And you know this is our second year

291
00:22:42,360 --> 00:22:47,080
doing it. And then the second question
is

292
00:22:45,880 --> 00:22:50,400
um
Well, in our interview, I don't forget

293
00:22:48,800 --> 00:22:53,720
this. In our interview, are you looking
for different questions than the ones

294
00:22:51,840 --> 00:22:57,440
you have on the evaluation form or are
you helping us walk through the

295
00:22:54,920 --> 00:23:01,320
evaluation form?
>> Uh

296
00:22:58,840 --> 00:23:06,440
Thank you. So uh let me go to the the
last question first. And uh, yes, we are

297
00:23:04,760 --> 00:23:10,680
going to be looking for you to to
respond to these criteria, and we will

298
00:23:08,560 --> 00:23:14,760
be touching base with you on each of
these criteria, but they will not be the

299
00:23:12,920 --> 00:23:18,800
only questions that we're going to ask
you. We we're going to ask you some

300
00:23:16,200 --> 00:23:22,560
questions about some general impressions
and you know,

301
00:23:21,000 --> 00:23:27,600
where you think some of the challenges
are, where where do you think there have

302
00:23:24,640 --> 00:23:31,560
been some great achievements, and
um, so it's got not going to be

303
00:23:29,160 --> 00:23:36,240
exclusive to the criteria.
Um, in terms of of advice for uh, going

304
00:23:34,760 --> 00:23:40,080
through this again, I mean, you've been
through this uh, or most of you have

305
00:23:38,120 --> 00:23:43,760
been through this once.
Um,

306
00:23:41,600 --> 00:23:49,240
is to
is to look at

307
00:23:46,800 --> 00:23:53,600
given your experience and having gone
through this before and having that

308
00:23:52,120 --> 00:23:58,720
criteria
uh, in the back of your minds in this

309
00:23:55,480 --> 00:23:58,720
last year,

310
00:23:58,760 --> 00:24:04,120
with the feedback that you gave us last
year,

311
00:24:02,280 --> 00:24:08,920
does that
does that

312
00:24:05,440 --> 00:24:15,480
where does that feedback grow?
What changed in the last year, or did

313
00:24:12,520 --> 00:24:19,520
anything change in the last year in that
within that criteria?

314
00:24:17,720 --> 00:24:24,960
And so, we would be hoping that you
would you would address that uh, during

315
00:24:22,560 --> 00:24:27,840
your answers.
>> I mean, anybody else?

316
00:24:29,120 --> 00:24:35,400
» All right. Um,
so uh, going forward what uh,

317
00:24:34,160 --> 00:24:39,440
we are
Well, first of all, I want to make sure

318
00:24:36,760 --> 00:24:42,000
I Are we okay with the criteria
generally speaking?

319
00:24:40,480 --> 00:24:46,000
» I think we are okay. And I think we're
okay with the process.

320
00:24:43,760 --> 00:24:50,880
Um, the only other piece that I would
ask the council to be is that um, is to

321
00:24:49,200 --> 00:24:54,640
note that we're adding community leaders
this next year.

322
00:24:52,600 --> 00:24:57,720
Um, so if you have suggestions for who
you might like those be, if you could

323
00:24:56,000 --> 00:25:02,360
just get them to Michelle or myself and
we will work with uh, Eric to get them

324
00:24:59,640 --> 00:25:04,280
added to the list.
All right.

325
00:25:03,240 --> 00:25:08,040
» Okay.
Um in terms of next steps,

326
00:25:07,360 --> 00:25:11,360
uh
we once we have all the names,

327
00:25:10,760 --> 00:25:15,600
uh
we will be wanting to start scheduling

328
00:25:13,920 --> 00:25:21,800
interviews and probably starting next
week, but in advance of that, uh we're

329
00:25:18,040 --> 00:25:26,000
going to ask that um probably the mayor
uh send out a communication to everybody

330
00:25:23,560 --> 00:25:30,000
that's going to be interviewed uh just
to let them know we'll be calling and

331
00:25:27,760 --> 00:25:33,160
that uh it's not a spam call that's
coming from our office.

332
00:25:32,040 --> 00:25:37,360
So,
uh

333
00:25:34,200 --> 00:25:41,680
so they'll be prepared for that.
>> Great. Do you have anything else?

334
00:25:39,960 --> 00:25:45,200
» Uh no, I think that concludes the
presentation unless the council has

335
00:25:43,280 --> 00:25:48,600
other questions.
>> I'm not seeing other questions. It It's

336
00:25:47,320 --> 00:25:52,840
been was a pretty straightforward
process um and thanks for helping get us

337
00:25:51,080 --> 00:25:55,480
through it because we got to a
conversation that was really

338
00:25:53,880 --> 00:25:58,360
constructive last year.
>> Great. Thank you.

339
00:25:57,520 --> 00:26:00,480
» All right. Thank you.
>> Thank you.

340
00:26:05,120 --> 00:26:13,120
» Okay. The uh
the uh next one is city council training

341
00:26:09,680 --> 00:26:13,120
with Mary Bridget Smith.

342
00:26:23,680 --> 00:26:30,800
» Good evening, Council. Um welcome back.
We are here this evening uh to present

343
00:26:29,080 --> 00:26:36,680
an item that we come before you
periodically on for city council

344
00:26:32,480 --> 00:26:38,920
training. It involves uh legal um issues
and

345
00:26:37,920 --> 00:26:42,240
um
uh

346
00:26:39,560 --> 00:26:45,440
regulations that you are subject to that
can either cause you or the city

347
00:26:44,080 --> 00:26:49,520
liability.
Uh so, the idea is we come before you

348
00:26:47,200 --> 00:26:52,560
periodically to provide some training
and information and then that way

349
00:26:51,080 --> 00:26:56,480
expands your knowledge base and your
effectiveness as a counselor.

350
00:26:54,800 --> 00:27:00,800
Uh this time we're trying something a
little bit different. There's a memo in

351
00:26:58,400 --> 00:27:04,440
your packet which is just a summary of
some of those legal issues, everything

352
00:27:02,480 --> 00:27:08,720
from political activities to
cybersecurity to public records and

353
00:27:06,480 --> 00:27:12,600
public meetings. Please give a look to
the cybersecurity information in

354
00:27:10,240 --> 00:27:17,040
particular. That is something that is
becoming more prevalent and

355
00:27:13,840 --> 00:27:21,560
sophisticated and as um local government
officials you have um city emails which

356
00:27:19,840 --> 00:27:25,960
is the way that some of those actors can
get into our system.

357
00:27:23,360 --> 00:27:29,880
And then for the rest of the uh time
tonight we have a guest named Jeff

358
00:27:27,880 --> 00:27:33,560
Sinclair. Jeff is a vice president with
Brown and Brown Northwest. He's been a

359
00:27:31,720 --> 00:27:38,520
partner with the city of Springfield for
a long time. He's done uh specializes

360
00:27:36,800 --> 00:27:42,680
with local entities and has done this
training before before other bodies, but

361
00:27:40,600 --> 00:27:45,800
it's about tort claims and liability and
sort of when you're under the umbrella

362
00:27:44,400 --> 00:27:50,320
and when you're not, I guess it's a good
way to think about it. So Jeff is going

363
00:27:47,960 --> 00:27:55,080
to be providing the presentation tonight
and then a little time for questions.

364
00:27:52,000 --> 00:27:59,040
And um if you have other questions about
some of these legal responsibilities,

365
00:27:57,240 --> 00:28:03,520
please feel free to reach out to my
office. It's not a uh public meeting

366
00:28:01,880 --> 00:28:07,680
problem if we talk about some of those
questions offline at all. So uh I know a

367
00:28:06,120 --> 00:28:11,680
lot of this has a lot of acronyms and
kind of runs together, but more than

368
00:28:09,200 --> 00:28:15,400
happy um to chat with you about it.
And without further ado, I'll turn it

369
00:28:13,120 --> 00:28:18,360
over to Jeff.
>> Great. Uh thank you very much. Um my

370
00:28:17,280 --> 00:28:22,440
name is Jeff Sinclair and I'm the
insurance agent for the city. And it's

371
00:28:20,800 --> 00:28:26,480
my pleasure to be here. Um I've given
this this um talk a number of times. I'm

372
00:28:24,680 --> 00:28:31,440
kind of a unicorn gives me too much
credit. I'm kind of got some interesting

373
00:28:28,120 --> 00:28:34,880
experience because uh now 30 years ago I
started being a claims adjuster uh for

374
00:28:33,360 --> 00:28:38,520
public entities within the state of
Oregon having to do with uh special

375
00:28:37,240 --> 00:28:43,200
districts, cities and counties, and
school districts all at the same time.

376
00:28:40,960 --> 00:28:45,720
And uh for 21 years I did that um
working for a Special Districts

377
00:28:44,280 --> 00:28:49,360
Association of Oregon, City-County
Insurance Services Program, and then

378
00:28:47,160 --> 00:28:51,720
starting the school pool called PACE,
which your school district is member of

379
00:28:50,560 --> 00:28:56,120
today.
Uh about nine years ago I became a

380
00:28:54,080 --> 00:29:02,360
broker. And one of the reasons that I
became an agent is that I saw people in

381
00:28:59,160 --> 00:29:07,080
your shoes, um people in uh in in cities
and and school districts shoes being

382
00:29:04,280 --> 00:29:11,080
surprised by wow, I thought we had that
coverage. I thought I had that coverage.

383
00:29:08,840 --> 00:29:13,520
I thought I was covered.
And I was delivering bad news saying,

384
00:29:12,400 --> 00:29:16,840
"Hey,
counsel in the buck, uh we got problems

385
00:29:15,400 --> 00:29:21,160
here. This may not be This may not might
be what you think it is." And that

386
00:29:18,200 --> 00:29:24,560
surprise and that fear in your eyes made
me uncomfortable as cuz I was delivering

387
00:29:22,880 --> 00:29:28,120
the bad news as the representative from
the insurance company, let's say, or the

388
00:29:25,960 --> 00:29:32,920
risk pool at City County.
And so today's discussion is just about

389
00:29:30,760 --> 00:29:38,080
that. It's about the idea of where where
the rules are that we see the coverage,

390
00:29:35,480 --> 00:29:42,000
where the the litigation is being seen,
but really it's trying to separate out

391
00:29:39,800 --> 00:29:46,200
the political reality of your position
versus the legal reality of your

392
00:29:43,480 --> 00:29:49,880
position. Those are very different. And
so, when we talk about that today, that

393
00:29:47,760 --> 00:29:53,920
that's my main my main push. I'm not
trying to quell your speech. I'm not

394
00:29:52,000 --> 00:29:58,520
trying to tell you to to not do this or
not do that. Quite the opposite. I want

395
00:29:55,600 --> 00:30:02,240
you to know where you will be, likely,
if you make certain decisions or certain

396
00:30:00,240 --> 00:30:06,600
comments or be sued or otherwise in
certain perspectives. This is really

397
00:30:04,320 --> 00:30:09,480
interactive. I This will survive and
thrive based upon your questions. So,

398
00:30:08,080 --> 00:30:13,240
you wait, hang on, Jeff. You're telling
me that blah blah blah blah blah. Yes,

399
00:30:11,720 --> 00:30:16,320
that's the questions I want from you.
And feel free to interrupt me at any

400
00:30:14,440 --> 00:30:20,440
point. Okay?
Great. Let's see if this works here.

401
00:30:18,680 --> 00:30:22,600
Well, that picture's about 10 years ago
now.

402
00:30:21,680 --> 00:30:25,520
Is that working?
>> They

403
00:30:23,040 --> 00:30:27,880
» They always are. Promise.
>> Is it on?

404
00:30:29,880 --> 00:30:33,120
Okay, so I think we're on.
>> Oh.

405
00:30:33,840 --> 00:30:35,400
» Down arrow?
>> Down arrow.

406
00:30:34,760 --> 00:30:39,080
» Oh, down.
>> There we go. Okay, cool. All right.

407
00:30:37,280 --> 00:30:42,960
Cool. Um so, once again, I work for a
Brown & Brown. Um City County Insurance

408
00:30:40,960 --> 00:30:45,600
Services is the carrier that you belong
to. It's a risk pool. It's not an

409
00:30:44,360 --> 00:30:49,520
insurance company. So, the insurance
commissioner does not govern things.

410
00:30:47,640 --> 00:30:52,520
That is the risk pool you belong to. You
also have SAFE Corporation for your

411
00:30:51,080 --> 00:30:55,440
workers' compensation. Just just a
little little ditty about that. So, all

412
00:30:54,400 --> 00:30:58,400
these different entities are there to
support and and provide you either

413
00:30:56,880 --> 00:31:00,600
coverage or services. But, it's
important thing to know. Well, so

414
00:30:59,480 --> 00:31:04,680
someone calls you and they're part of
these three agencies or these three

415
00:31:02,280 --> 00:31:10,000
entities, they are they're here because
you've paid a lot of money to have their

416
00:31:06,600 --> 00:31:14,960
their access to their services, okay?
Um, hopefully, you've read or understand

417
00:31:12,640 --> 00:31:19,240
what the Oregon Tort Claims Act is. ORS
30.260, 265, and so on and so forth.

418
00:31:18,000 --> 00:31:24,480
It's kind of the Bible for public
entities, employees, um, volunteers, um,

419
00:31:22,960 --> 00:31:28,120
board members, council people. That is
really important. It's It talks about

420
00:31:25,840 --> 00:31:31,200
the ideas of what coverage is you have,
the duties that are owed to you as

421
00:31:29,520 --> 00:31:36,400
employees or otherwise. It also talks
about limitations, um, and such. But,

422
00:31:34,120 --> 00:31:39,320
what is a tort? A tort is a duty owed, a
breach of duty, and damages. And they

423
00:31:37,840 --> 00:31:43,800
have to be connected. You can't have
like like a a broken sidewalk and a

424
00:31:41,240 --> 00:31:46,640
person almost trips or almost hurts
themselves, and they sue you. That

425
00:31:45,120 --> 00:31:51,480
doesn't work. You have to have a broken
sidewalk, a duty owed that you breached,

426
00:31:49,040 --> 00:31:55,480
and damages, an injury. That is what
creates that that that nexus of a tort

427
00:31:53,680 --> 00:31:59,880
claim, okay? So, that's what this is
this is really about. Who is covered by

428
00:31:57,720 --> 00:32:03,320
the Oregon Tort Claims Act? It's people
like yourselves,

429
00:32:01,560 --> 00:32:06,640
it's employees of the city, and
volunteers of the city. It can be

430
00:32:04,520 --> 00:32:10,440
others, agents, and otherwise, but truly
it's it's those three main groups that

431
00:32:08,080 --> 00:32:15,480
it's trying to get to. And it's not It's
not we we will endeavor to we'd like to.

432
00:32:13,440 --> 00:32:20,360
It's no, no. We shall defend and
indemnify you. The city shall defend and

433
00:32:17,640 --> 00:32:23,400
indemnify an employee here who's within
the course and scope of their duties

434
00:32:22,360 --> 00:32:27,120
under the direction and control of the
city. They shall defend a city council

435
00:32:26,120 --> 00:32:30,840
person.
Um, you know, for the same reasons,

436
00:32:28,840 --> 00:32:34,800
right? So, so realize that there's no
there's no discussion there. Coverage or

437
00:32:32,360 --> 00:32:38,560
not, the city is forced to do that. Once
again, direction and control, course and

438
00:32:36,840 --> 00:32:41,880
scope. I'm going to hit you with that
those two terms a lot cuz that's a

439
00:32:39,920 --> 00:32:46,480
really big part of what this is.
Um limits of damages,

440
00:32:43,840 --> 00:32:49,280
this is why we require and um Jamie
Aboagye is one of my favorite risk

441
00:32:48,040 --> 00:32:53,960
managers in the whole state. She's your
risk manager here, of course. She

442
00:32:51,080 --> 00:32:57,880
understands the idea that $1.8 million
plus is what you're exposed for when it

443
00:32:56,000 --> 00:33:01,120
comes to liability of lawsuits on an
Oregon tort claim. Okay, duty owed,

444
00:32:59,840 --> 00:33:07,360
breach of duty, and damages here in
Oregon. $1.8 million in on a on on a per

445
00:33:04,280 --> 00:33:10,200
claim basis for for an event. That means
that only requiring $1 million of

446
00:33:08,800 --> 00:33:14,160
coverage can be problematic. That's why
we want to push that to be $2 million to

447
00:33:11,760 --> 00:33:18,080
cover that. Now, on a per person basis
is 900,000, but on a per claim per

448
00:33:16,200 --> 00:33:21,800
occurrence basis, the car has two or
three people in it. The The uh other

449
00:33:20,120 --> 00:33:26,000
things have it. It's $1.8 million plus
right now as the current tort caps.

450
00:33:23,560 --> 00:33:26,000
Question?

451
00:33:27,720 --> 00:33:31,640
You're not agreeing. Sorry.
>> Yeah, yeah, right. Yeah.

452
00:33:30,000 --> 00:33:35,840
There you go. And I'm going to try and
keep this from going down a technical

453
00:33:33,520 --> 00:33:40,360
road because I'm also a broker, so I
could go down the the wrong road and it

454
00:33:37,520 --> 00:33:45,480
would be and Mary cut me off here. Um
but who who sets the

455
00:33:42,880 --> 00:33:49,840
Where's the limit? The 1.8? Who's
setting that that is that Is that the

456
00:33:48,680 --> 00:33:54,440
legislature?
>> The state of Oregon has as a mechanism.

457
00:33:51,560 --> 00:33:57,320
It's not quite the the um it's not tied
to the

458
00:33:55,520 --> 00:33:59,440
um to the exact, you know, interest
rates of sorts of you know, and

459
00:33:58,280 --> 00:34:02,000
inflation, but it's really close. But
but the state of Oregon has a mechanism

460
00:34:00,680 --> 00:34:03,400
within that. And it talks about it in
the Tort Claims Act.

461
00:34:03,120 --> 00:34:06,560
» Okay.
>> So it's it's it goes up a few thousand

462
00:34:05,160 --> 00:34:12,919
dollars. It's random. It's actually
right now it's like 1.

463
00:34:10,200 --> 00:34:17,280
It's 1.805300.
So what 1.8 million 5,300 is

464
00:34:15,840 --> 00:34:20,240
is the per per maximum.
>> And the reason that stands out to me is

465
00:34:18,960 --> 00:34:25,879
is in
in the in the current landscape, 1.8, I

466
00:34:23,159 --> 00:34:29,080
mean we're seeing we're seeing um
decisions come much higher than that.

467
00:34:28,159 --> 00:34:32,480
» In actual way.
>> And so 1.8 I I

468
00:34:31,240 --> 00:34:36,440
I was a little taken aback like, "Wow,
that that's

469
00:34:34,560 --> 00:34:41,280
kind of nice that it's that it's not
like 20 million." And so, the good news

470
00:34:39,040 --> 00:34:45,040
is for state torts, that is the cap for
state torts.

471
00:34:42,679 --> 00:34:47,399
However, employment practices, sexual
abuse and molestation, those things that

472
00:34:46,159 --> 00:34:51,639
are federal claims brought in federal
court, those are not limited. So, the

473
00:34:49,440 --> 00:34:55,360
Oregon Tort Claims Act is for that, just
Oregon tort tort tort caps. But, federal

474
00:34:53,919 --> 00:34:59,640
lawsuits, so that's why you have $10
million of coverage through city county

475
00:34:57,080 --> 00:35:04,520
and not $1.8 million because you could
be sued for well more than than 2

476
00:35:02,160 --> 00:35:09,560
million, 10 million, 15 million. We we
have current customers in in in our

477
00:35:06,800 --> 00:35:12,800
practice Brown & Brown that are in the
midst of, you know, $20 million

478
00:35:11,280 --> 00:35:15,480
settlements, $25 million settlements
right now. Um some are 10, some are

479
00:35:14,360 --> 00:35:19,360
eight, some are five. Those are
extremes. But, but but the idea of of

480
00:35:18,080 --> 00:35:24,520
one or two million
um my point for this slide is the idea

481
00:35:21,920 --> 00:35:28,120
is that your how you treat your vendors
and what you ask of them to to defend

482
00:35:26,160 --> 00:35:31,760
and indemnify the city when they come to
you with with work that they want to do

483
00:35:29,520 --> 00:35:36,720
for you, requiring things, you know, $1
million is what is what my customers

484
00:35:33,880 --> 00:35:40,640
required in 1996 when I started
claims. 1996, it was $1 million. And

485
00:35:39,280 --> 00:35:43,760
sometimes it's hard to get two out of
people these days. So, just be aware of

486
00:35:42,240 --> 00:35:46,640
that. That's a real challenge and that's
why I brought this up, but that's a

487
00:35:44,880 --> 00:35:49,280
that's a really good point. And that's
why you should care. That's that that's

488
00:35:47,960 --> 00:35:51,760
a big part of this. Thank you for the
question.

489
00:35:52,040 --> 00:35:57,040
So, my my whole thing about this speech
is getting you under the umbrella,

490
00:35:55,640 --> 00:36:00,800
understanding where the umbrella is, the
umbrella of coverage that is, the

491
00:35:58,200 --> 00:36:05,120
umbrella of defense indemnity based upon
the coverages that that city county

492
00:36:02,920 --> 00:36:08,080
provides the city of Springfield. You
being a council counselor with with the

493
00:36:07,160 --> 00:36:12,120
city, I want you to be under that
umbrella if you so choose, just so you

494
00:36:10,200 --> 00:36:16,800
know where that umbrella is at.
So, who is a member? A member is is what

495
00:36:15,200 --> 00:36:20,440
they describe as being being covered
underneath the umbrella. So, a member

496
00:36:18,600 --> 00:36:23,760
means that you are officer, employee,
agent, volunteer, once again acting

497
00:36:22,240 --> 00:36:27,000
course and scope
under the direction and control of the

498
00:36:24,800 --> 00:36:31,520
governmental proprietary function. So,
so when are you a a council person? When

499
00:36:29,280 --> 00:36:35,040
are you not? Right now,
the umbrella is over you.

500
00:36:33,440 --> 00:36:37,560
You are in a meeting
of the city council.

501
00:36:36,520 --> 00:36:41,080
Great.
The gavel goes down and you walk out in

502
00:36:39,240 --> 00:36:45,920
the parking lot and you get in the a
verbal discussion, heated, and somebody

503
00:36:43,800 --> 00:36:50,720
accuses you of slander. Somebody accuses
you of of physical violence, whatever it

504
00:36:47,560 --> 00:36:54,000
might be. You are not under the umbrella
after that gavel goes down and you're

505
00:36:52,240 --> 00:36:57,880
walking to her. Now, you're here because
of the meeting, but for the meeting, you

506
00:36:55,800 --> 00:37:00,880
wouldn't be here. However, you're only a
council person

507
00:36:59,880 --> 00:37:04,600
because of this meeting during the
meeting itself.

508
00:37:02,720 --> 00:37:09,600
Now, where that can get expanded is if
the council decides that you're also

509
00:37:06,880 --> 00:37:13,400
going to be on the committee for X,
right? You know, you're now on the

510
00:37:11,120 --> 00:37:16,200
committee for to do the the review of of
the city manager. Let's say you only

511
00:37:14,520 --> 00:37:19,800
have uh three of you or five of you do
that. Some do that. Executive committee

512
00:37:17,520 --> 00:37:23,680
what what otherwise. Great. Your powers
have now been extended. Well, in those

513
00:37:21,400 --> 00:37:26,640
meetings, in those discussions, now the
umbrella follows you to that.

514
00:37:25,680 --> 00:37:30,840
And you know what? And now we've all
decided you're actually now you're going

515
00:37:28,000 --> 00:37:34,400
to speak for us at the local Elks Club
and talk about our our challenges, our

516
00:37:32,600 --> 00:37:41,280
needs for whatever. You are We've
decided as a group to empower you

517
00:37:38,040 --> 00:37:43,600
to do that. If you just do that,
the umbrella is likely not going to

518
00:37:42,520 --> 00:37:46,920
follow you.
That's your political needs. I want to

519
00:37:45,200 --> 00:37:50,320
be there for people and tell them what
we're doing, all the great things we're

520
00:37:47,920 --> 00:37:54,160
doing for the city. I'm deciding that.
That's great to do that, but politically

521
00:37:52,200 --> 00:37:57,400
speaking, great, but legally speaking,
the umbrella is not following you

522
00:37:55,360 --> 00:37:58,960
necessarily to do that.
Question?

523
00:37:57,840 --> 00:38:01,160
» Yeah.
Um

524
00:38:00,080 --> 00:38:03,480
I want to go back to the parking lot
analogy or parking lot example

525
00:38:03,040 --> 00:38:07,440
» Sounds great.
>> because we all get a a city provided

526
00:38:05,800 --> 00:38:11,880
parking pass to park specifically
underneath this building. So, I want to

527
00:38:09,280 --> 00:38:16,680
be really specific and I'm specifically
I have reasons behind this question.

528
00:38:13,800 --> 00:38:21,280
When exactly does the cover When is our
liability start and stop? Is it just the

529
00:38:19,000 --> 00:38:26,480
gavel or do we have any additional
coverage that covers us as councilors

530
00:38:23,840 --> 00:38:30,720
walking to our vehicles and exiting the
premises?

531
00:38:28,480 --> 00:38:35,360
» So, each individual
event would be separately adjudicated by

532
00:38:33,360 --> 00:38:38,640
by your by your carrier and by by your
your attorneys.

533
00:38:36,640 --> 00:38:43,480
Um I will say that in my experience over
the last 30 years, it's gavel-to-gavel.

534
00:38:41,720 --> 00:38:48,760
Because you could linger. You could
cause issues. You could You could do all

535
00:38:45,560 --> 00:38:52,440
kinds of stuff that are not city council
approved. They're not city council

536
00:38:50,240 --> 00:38:57,080
authorized. You could get here early, 2
hours early, walk into the to to a

537
00:38:54,640 --> 00:39:00,120
someone's desk in in engineering and sit
down there and cause havoc. Just because

538
00:38:59,080 --> 00:39:04,600
you're early doesn't mean you're city
council person yet. You're just Jeff

539
00:39:01,600 --> 00:39:08,960
Sinclair. You're a nobody until you sit
here and the meeting gavels forward. So,

540
00:39:06,880 --> 00:39:12,400
I would say gavel-to-gavel is the safest
place to be. How you get here and how

541
00:39:10,960 --> 00:39:14,960
you leave, th- those can be squishy.
There's coming and going rules and that

542
00:39:13,800 --> 00:39:19,880
kind of stuff, but but technically
speaking, gavel-to-gavel is is how that

543
00:39:17,960 --> 00:39:23,120
that is That's th- that's my impression.
I'm not an attorney. Should have said

544
00:39:21,320 --> 00:39:27,920
that at the beginning, okay?
But I'm a practitioner and I've seen

545
00:39:24,520 --> 00:39:31,160
this a lot. So, this is This is outside
work comp. Work comp's a different

546
00:39:29,200 --> 00:39:34,680
animal, right? This is about liability
issues that people allege you to have

547
00:39:32,680 --> 00:39:39,120
done and whether or not the city county
program will cover you or not

548
00:39:36,280 --> 00:39:43,400
individually. So, gavel-to-gavel is how
I see this, okay?

549
00:39:41,680 --> 00:39:45,920
That's That's a good question.
And And th- There could be different

550
00:39:44,400 --> 00:39:50,520
interpretations of that, but just
realize that if you think that way and

551
00:39:48,320 --> 00:39:53,480
you Okay, great. Meeting's over. I'm
going to move out and move on and go

552
00:39:52,000 --> 00:39:55,880
home and and review the documents there
or what what have you. Those are the

553
00:39:54,600 --> 00:39:59,840
things I see.
The The entities that run into trouble

554
00:39:58,320 --> 00:40:04,840
with employment practices claims
involving councilmen councilwomen who

555
00:40:02,560 --> 00:40:08,320
who linger and who want to micromanage
and get involved in some other people's

556
00:40:06,400 --> 00:40:11,120
business sometimes, it's cuz they're
hanging around or or th- they're

557
00:40:09,520 --> 00:40:15,400
inserted themselves into the city's
business outside of the meetings,

558
00:40:13,080 --> 00:40:19,800
outside of you globally as a group.
Your power individually is only when

559
00:40:18,320 --> 00:40:24,680
you're together.
That's it.

560
00:40:21,680 --> 00:40:29,080
Or when your togetherness assigns you a
task on the record.

561
00:40:28,040 --> 00:40:31,880
That's a really hard thing because
politically you're always on. You're

562
00:40:30,440 --> 00:40:35,120
always going.
Right?

563
00:40:32,760 --> 00:40:35,120
» Yes.

564
00:40:35,320 --> 00:40:41,280
So, I just want I want to poke a little
bit around with the like you're assigned

565
00:40:39,000 --> 00:40:45,120
a task on the record. Cuz when you said
on the record, I'm like, well, sometimes

566
00:40:43,320 --> 00:40:51,040
like say the mayor might call me like,
I'm stuck in a thing. I can't get to it.

567
00:40:47,440 --> 00:40:54,120
Can you cover, right? And so, I might be
an alternate or I might be covering or

568
00:40:52,720 --> 00:40:57,640
somebody might be going to a ribbon
cutting or something at the last minute,

569
00:40:55,640 --> 00:41:01,360
right? And so, I'm just curious about
that because some of them is like we do

570
00:40:59,480 --> 00:41:05,200
have like our assigned committees, but
sometimes we just are like, can you

571
00:41:02,880 --> 00:41:09,480
cover for me at this thing? And I'm
wondering what the like

572
00:41:07,400 --> 00:41:13,240
there's no real paper trail for that.
>> So, I would recommend, and this is me

573
00:41:11,600 --> 00:41:16,120
being conservative, but I want you to be
realistic about it as well cuz that's

574
00:41:15,000 --> 00:41:19,480
that's our lives.
Um if you're assigned tasks as a part of

575
00:41:17,920 --> 00:41:22,480
your role, the mayor's a great example.
Mayors have certain tasks that are

576
00:41:20,560 --> 00:41:26,360
different than yours, let's say. And the
mayor adjudicates, you know, the and

577
00:41:24,200 --> 00:41:30,560
says, "Hey, could you please on my
behalf do X, Y, and Z?" I think that

578
00:41:28,800 --> 00:41:33,880
that's that makes sense to me. Um make
sure you talk to talk to city council

579
00:41:32,280 --> 00:41:36,960
about that, but I would have that in an
email form where it's asked and

580
00:41:35,520 --> 00:41:40,160
answered. Sure.
You know, I've I've got this. Um if you

581
00:41:38,720 --> 00:41:44,120
can be a phone call, but that way paper
trail to your point is is the mayor, you

582
00:41:42,200 --> 00:41:48,480
know, saying, "Hey, can you please take
this over for me?" And make sure you

583
00:41:45,480 --> 00:41:52,480
talk about X cuz if if you just go and
you the the hard part about these rules,

584
00:41:50,760 --> 00:41:57,320
let me back up a little bit, is that
when a person I hate saying goes rogue,

585
00:41:54,320 --> 00:42:00,960
but when a person um is a is a council
councilman uh council person, sorry, um

586
00:41:59,560 --> 00:42:04,080
that that says, you know, "I'm just
going to go to this because it's right

587
00:42:02,240 --> 00:42:07,680
thing to do." And they start talking and
they say, "I'm Jeff St. Clair, counselor

588
00:42:05,720 --> 00:42:10,440
for the city of Springfield." Well,
you're not there because of that, but

589
00:42:08,640 --> 00:42:13,760
you you have that flag. Everyone knows
you, right? As as that person. and they

590
00:42:12,680 --> 00:42:16,880
talk.
You do not authorize that. That's not

591
00:42:15,080 --> 00:42:20,080
yours. So, all these all these speed
bumps and these these be carefuls I'm

592
00:42:18,640 --> 00:42:24,480
talking about are because of the bad
actors that might be going outside of

593
00:42:22,040 --> 00:42:28,200
what what those those regulations are.
That That's where the challenge.

594
00:42:26,320 --> 00:42:32,040
Councilor Buck.
>> So,

595
00:42:29,680 --> 00:42:37,080
um
I would I would imagine that also

596
00:42:33,760 --> 00:42:40,480
extends to city staff say inviting us to
functions and things like that. We we

597
00:42:38,640 --> 00:42:46,120
got emails this this last week about,
"Hey, there's these events coming up. Uh

598
00:42:42,760 --> 00:42:49,840
the city has a table, and we'd like you
know, if you want to go, we'd love to

599
00:42:48,400 --> 00:42:55,440
we'd love to have you."
Um and and we we attend these events

600
00:42:51,360 --> 00:43:01,080
throughout the year. And so,
talk a little bit about how those things

601
00:42:59,000 --> 00:43:05,680
Listen, so we have it in email form.
It's, you know, they asked

602
00:43:04,160 --> 00:43:09,120
you and we agreed, all of that kind of
stuff. It's

603
00:43:07,520 --> 00:43:12,160
I mean, and that is public record. It's
not necessarily directed by the council.

604
00:43:11,040 --> 00:43:17,200
It's just something the city is
supporting, having the council do that.

605
00:43:15,040 --> 00:43:21,320
Um and then so, up to that point, that
all That's all That all makes sense,

606
00:43:18,920 --> 00:43:26,160
right? That's all under the umbrella.
And I And I think that that That seems

607
00:43:23,040 --> 00:43:30,520
like a reasonable argument. However,
we're just asked to attend. What happens

608
00:43:28,000 --> 00:43:34,480
at that event can be a different can be
a different discussion, right? So, we're

609
00:43:32,760 --> 00:43:38,160
not asked to talk. We're not asked to
engage with this person or that person.

610
00:43:36,320 --> 00:43:41,840
We're asked to attend. So,
how do you How do you parse out those

611
00:43:40,480 --> 00:43:45,920
those those lines?
>> The small details of of those are

612
00:43:43,840 --> 00:43:47,800
difficult because it's about your usual
and customary engagements.

613
00:43:47,440 --> 00:43:52,560
» Yeah.
>> If you guys regularly invite, you know,

614
00:43:51,240 --> 00:43:56,320
you know, city councilors to certain
events, and it's kind of a a like

615
00:43:54,320 --> 00:43:59,760
buckshot, like, "If any of you can go,
we have a table at the Elks Lodge. You

616
00:43:58,280 --> 00:44:02,880
use that, whatever. At the Elks Lodge,
please go, and you know, and thank you

617
00:44:01,240 --> 00:44:07,160
very much, you know, whatever." That's
That's an expected That's normal. That's

618
00:44:05,040 --> 00:44:10,320
That's there to everybody. If it all of
a sudden is only going to Commissioner

619
00:44:09,040 --> 00:44:13,520
Stout,
and all of a sudden Commissioner Stout

620
00:44:11,360 --> 00:44:16,840
is a de facto person that does Well,
it's like we hang a second. Is that now

621
00:44:15,520 --> 00:44:21,120
Should we talk about the fact that that
is now his role? And you guys authorize

622
00:44:19,440 --> 00:44:25,960
that? Those are things where I want you
to be I want you to be intentional about

623
00:44:23,680 --> 00:44:28,800
about the the things that you can be.
There's always going to be the what ifs,

624
00:44:27,360 --> 00:44:31,960
and I and I I understand that. I've been
doing this once again for almost 30

625
00:44:30,240 --> 00:44:35,360
years, over 30 years now. But you want
to be intentional with those ideas. So,

626
00:44:33,400 --> 00:44:39,000
if it's routine that you're doing that,
maybe you have a list of all those

627
00:44:36,520 --> 00:44:42,240
expected items on your board packets as
upcoming events of things. And who wants

628
00:44:40,880 --> 00:44:46,480
to go? Who's going to be attending this?
And you have that be a running a running

629
00:44:44,120 --> 00:44:49,120
clock of sorts of a you know, of items.
Hey, we have these 15 things in the next

630
00:44:47,800 --> 00:44:52,920
3 months that we're going to go to or be
a part of. And then okay, great. I can

631
00:44:51,160 --> 00:44:56,640
go. I can go. I can go. What I've seen
happen in one of the one of the stories

632
00:44:54,400 --> 00:45:01,360
of my early career that made me the most
concerned was it was an annual

633
00:44:58,480 --> 00:45:05,040
conference of of of an organization, and
two people said they could go. They they

634
00:45:03,320 --> 00:45:08,640
actually took took s- role. Okay, who
can go to this this conference? The two

635
00:45:06,960 --> 00:45:12,360
of us can go. Great.
The third person who couldn't go for a

636
00:45:10,880 --> 00:45:16,920
personal reason, that personal reason
fell through. They could go now, and

637
00:45:13,840 --> 00:45:20,400
they just showed up out of state
with, you know, and just showed up. Now,

638
00:45:19,120 --> 00:45:23,160
I'm like, "Hang on. You were authorized
to go. The budget was there for you two

639
00:45:21,920 --> 00:45:26,640
to go. The discussion was there for you
two to go. And a third person just

640
00:45:24,840 --> 00:45:30,320
showed up. What if all seven of you
showed up? We had budgeted for two or

641
00:45:28,440 --> 00:45:34,160
three." It's that kind of stuff where
unless the the the the city council

642
00:45:32,040 --> 00:45:37,880
actually authorizes you to go on these
things, especially they're incurring

643
00:45:35,200 --> 00:45:41,440
costs or might be politically difficult,
be really careful. And and you could

644
00:45:39,520 --> 00:45:44,040
have a quick, "Hey, hey, I can go now.
Is that okay?" You can have a quick

645
00:45:42,480 --> 00:45:47,760
little discussion about what makes the
most sense, reauthorize that if it makes

646
00:45:46,000 --> 00:45:52,440
sense, and you're good to go. That could
happen in real time with city council

647
00:45:49,840 --> 00:45:55,600
and with the city attorney's help. But
that's the real problem that I I've seen

648
00:45:53,840 --> 00:46:01,840
in the past is the Oh, I'll just go to
this. Cuz what if one of you guys

649
00:45:58,600 --> 00:46:06,440
got invited to go by by a a let's say.
Now, hey, I'm going to Chicago for this

650
00:46:03,240 --> 00:46:09,320
great thing. Come with me to Chicago.
And then the city's going to pay for you

651
00:46:08,040 --> 00:46:12,040
to go to Chicago without talking to
anybody about this?

652
00:46:11,000 --> 00:46:14,600
Those are the kind of things that that
you're trying to get around of. The

653
00:46:13,120 --> 00:46:18,440
collective decides what we're doing to
spend money and authorized vision and

654
00:46:16,880 --> 00:46:21,640
authorized voice.
The collective will then reimburse you

655
00:46:20,280 --> 00:46:25,480
or or help defend and indemnify you
because of that.

656
00:46:22,800 --> 00:46:29,600
» Could we delegate that to make it
explicit in our operating procedures

657
00:46:27,320 --> 00:46:35,320
that that I as mayor can ask people to
go or you know, as part of you know,

658
00:46:32,960 --> 00:46:39,600
uh agenda setting or council leadership,
we make a more formal ask to go?

659
00:46:37,440 --> 00:46:42,000
» I I'm always up for the intentionality
of that. If you have the if you're going

660
00:46:40,920 --> 00:46:45,880
to do that, we're going to make that be
a part of our process, I want that role.

661
00:46:44,400 --> 00:46:48,760
Can I get granted that role? The city
attorney signs off on that, that sounds

662
00:46:47,480 --> 00:46:52,080
reasonable to me.
And and and the coverage should follow

663
00:46:50,200 --> 00:46:54,480
that because it's it's the paper trail
sorts that this is our duties and go

664
00:46:53,840 --> 00:46:58,800
from there.
>> Yeah, the commentary around community

665
00:46:56,680 --> 00:47:02,840
events has always been around. You will
get asked to do a community event to

666
00:47:00,560 --> 00:47:06,720
represent the city, right? Like some of
the language is there, we may need to

667
00:47:04,560 --> 00:47:12,600
formalize it more. But we've always
talked about going to things like

668
00:47:09,240 --> 00:47:16,240
uh the education foundation fundraiser.
Part of your role as a counselor is to

669
00:47:14,440 --> 00:47:19,440
represent the city in the public.
>> And so, that's where that's where it

670
00:47:18,360 --> 00:47:23,920
gets
you you're doing you're doing good,

671
00:47:21,520 --> 00:47:26,640
right? Think of if you weren't. Think of
if

672
00:47:24,880 --> 00:47:30,240
I mean and there's a lot of entities
right now that are having those one-offs

673
00:47:28,560 --> 00:47:33,240
and really difficult times sometimes,
right? And so, it's like it's going well

674
00:47:32,320 --> 00:47:36,520
now because you guys are well
functioning, you're discussing, you're

675
00:47:34,760 --> 00:47:40,280
going back and forth, things are well.
What if what if you didn't have that?

676
00:47:38,560 --> 00:47:45,080
And so, you want to build in build in
some walls, but also some ability to be

677
00:47:42,160 --> 00:47:47,480
to be nimble when necessary to do that.
>> Yeah.

678
00:47:45,800 --> 00:47:49,360
» Very good point.
>> Okay.

679
00:47:47,840 --> 00:47:51,840
» I think you can talk you guys. Sorry. I
love this stuff.

680
00:47:50,880 --> 00:47:56,360
Okay. Okay, I'll be quick.
>> And I won't gavel you off.

681
00:47:53,560 --> 00:47:59,600
» I said I will sa- salute and walk away.
Um okay. So, the political versus legal

682
00:47:58,320 --> 00:48:02,280
reality stuff, I put this slide on there
cuz this is this reality of what we're

683
00:48:00,840 --> 00:48:05,440
talking about here. So,
um, so board members are empowered only

684
00:48:03,960 --> 00:48:09,040
during sanctioned board meetings where
quorum is present or, as I mentioned,

685
00:48:07,440 --> 00:48:13,080
designated. And that that's a big part.
Otherwise, you're not a member. And so

686
00:48:11,240 --> 00:48:17,360
so being mindful of that, and that's
okay, by the way, to not be covered by

687
00:48:14,720 --> 00:48:20,920
the umbrella. That's fine. Your role is
to do what you would like to do to to

688
00:48:19,400 --> 00:48:24,720
either better your family and or better
the city. Sometimes they are congruent

689
00:48:22,720 --> 00:48:27,080
and parallel. Sometimes they're not. And
that's totally fine. And we understand

690
00:48:26,160 --> 00:48:31,040
that.
Let's go through some ideas here.

691
00:48:28,840 --> 00:48:33,320
So, these are real ideas or things that
really happened, and it's it's going to

692
00:48:32,240 --> 00:48:37,400
happen you've had it happen already.
Chain of command. You're approached at

693
00:48:34,840 --> 00:48:41,120
Fred Meyer's by a friend demanding help
with the with the storm drain. You know,

694
00:48:39,240 --> 00:48:45,520
it's like, "Hey, I uh
this is the problem, and what should you

695
00:48:42,880 --> 00:48:48,240
do as a as a as a city counselor?" First
of all, you're helpful people. You have

696
00:48:46,880 --> 00:48:51,440
servant's hearts. You wouldn't do what
you do without that. It's not going to

697
00:48:49,720 --> 00:48:54,120
say, "Talk to somebody else." No, you're
going to say, "Can I please get your

698
00:48:52,960 --> 00:48:57,120
information
and I'll somebody call you?" You take

699
00:48:55,440 --> 00:49:01,320
the information down.
You thank them for their time, and you

700
00:48:59,520 --> 00:49:05,400
go off into the ether. And you've
directed to the city city council or

701
00:49:03,440 --> 00:49:08,680
city manager right away. Tell them to
talk to the person

702
00:49:07,080 --> 00:49:13,120
and move on.
Um, the idea of you managing that, being

703
00:49:11,200 --> 00:49:16,440
the the the in and out um discussion
communication person, please refrain

704
00:49:15,000 --> 00:49:20,400
from doing that as best as best as best
you can. We see a lot of issues with

705
00:49:18,480 --> 00:49:24,080
that if you try and stay involved. You
can do a check-in and ask city manager,

706
00:49:22,280 --> 00:49:27,560
"Hey, how how's that going?"
You know, that's okay to do that, but

707
00:49:25,480 --> 00:49:32,040
don't just get the information, customer
service, servant's heart, and then float

708
00:49:30,320 --> 00:49:35,160
off into the ether after you pass it on.
Please please try and do that.

709
00:49:35,360 --> 00:49:39,760
» I'm probably not going to be the only
person who's like, "I want to sit with

710
00:49:37,520 --> 00:49:44,320
this for a minute." Um
Uh, totally yes. Usually, I'm like,

711
00:49:43,200 --> 00:49:48,840
"Neal and Nancy, what do we do about
this thing?" But, there's that closing

712
00:49:46,800 --> 00:49:53,600
the loop piece, right? There's the like
person showing up on your doorstep or

713
00:49:51,320 --> 00:49:58,520
running into you in Fred Meyer again.
Um and so that's the part that like I I

714
00:49:56,400 --> 00:50:01,520
mean maybe I just I'm like I wouldn't
feel comfortable not closing the loop

715
00:50:00,040 --> 00:50:05,440
with that person or checking back in and
I just have to take the risk on that.

716
00:50:03,880 --> 00:50:09,640
Because I think there's a piece it's
like just just a human relationship

717
00:50:08,200 --> 00:50:12,720
piece. It's like I have taken
responsibility for this and I want to

718
00:50:11,200 --> 00:50:15,400
make sure that it is
um that you've gotten what you need or

719
00:50:14,960 --> 00:50:19,400
whatever.
>> So the I do close the loop to me makes

720
00:50:17,480 --> 00:50:23,880
makes sense. Um but you don't want to be
in any part of the back and forth.

721
00:50:22,840 --> 00:50:27,200
And there could be major back and forth.
It could be likely a storm drain is no

722
00:50:26,240 --> 00:50:30,560
liability by the city. It's a
declination. It's going to the to the

723
00:50:29,320 --> 00:50:34,280
the insurance company. They're
investigating it. It rained.

724
00:50:32,840 --> 00:50:38,560
There was issues we were just out there
a little while ago. I mean there's no

725
00:50:35,360 --> 00:50:40,960
issues. Declined. Denied. And now you're
going to go back and say, "Oh, sorry we

726
00:50:39,840 --> 00:50:44,440
denied your claim." And that's going to
come up with a lot more a lot more

727
00:50:43,160 --> 00:50:48,160
questions than answers. A lot more
problems than than than things. You hire

728
00:50:46,520 --> 00:50:51,120
people to to do a lot of things for you.
So I would be careful of that.

729
00:50:49,880 --> 00:50:53,920
» Should you reach back out or ask the
city manager to, "Hey, just make sure

730
00:50:52,760 --> 00:50:58,000
that you know, let me know if anything I
can do. I'd like to know what happens so

731
00:50:55,680 --> 00:51:01,080
I can be you know, be aware of it." That
makes sense to me. But but if you're in

732
00:50:59,400 --> 00:51:05,120
the back and forth of that, it can it
can become problematic.

733
00:51:04,080 --> 00:51:08,480
» I'm going to follow up again and then
other folks can jump in. I'm going to

734
00:51:06,600 --> 00:51:13,120
I'm going to assume that I'm not the
only city councilor that has people like

735
00:51:10,520 --> 00:51:17,520
show up on their doorstep, right? That
Um like the stop sign fell down or I

736
00:51:15,880 --> 00:51:20,640
knew you'd be I saw you came home and I
want to come talk to you about a thing.

737
00:51:18,920 --> 00:51:25,520
» Yep.
>> I'm

738
00:51:22,720 --> 00:51:28,320
Where does that fit? Like that's that's
that's not Fred Meyer, that's not a

739
00:51:26,760 --> 00:51:33,080
public space, that's not somebody sent
me an email. That's like somebody is

740
00:51:30,400 --> 00:51:34,680
like stopped me in my yard and or come
on to my

741
00:51:34,280 --> 00:51:39,280
you know,
>> So So once again, you're not you're not

742
00:51:37,600 --> 00:51:41,800
a The umbrella's not over you at your
house.

743
00:51:40,440 --> 00:51:44,320
It's just not.
Unless all of a sudden your job

744
00:51:43,120 --> 00:51:49,840
description changes, which you know, I'm
being facetious. It's You have no you

745
00:51:47,040 --> 00:51:53,360
have no power and no protection likely
at your home.

746
00:51:51,920 --> 00:51:55,720
Anywhere else besides those things I
just described.

747
00:51:54,680 --> 00:51:58,720
Um
Now, could that be extended somehow?

748
00:51:57,400 --> 00:52:00,920
Possibly. I I
That would just be extremely

749
00:51:59,600 --> 00:52:05,240
far-fetched, extremely difficult. So, I
don't want to go down that road. But,

750
00:52:02,560 --> 00:52:10,240
that's why you want to be as a political
as as helpful and and stop that I will

751
00:52:08,880 --> 00:52:15,000
turn this in and someone will get back
to you as soon as possible. I'll I will

752
00:52:12,840 --> 00:52:19,240
deliver it via email to the city manager
tonight.

753
00:52:16,680 --> 00:52:23,520
And then they'll contact you. It's best
you can do that. Please try that. I know

754
00:52:21,160 --> 00:52:27,720
it may not be reasonable. But, also
you're training them to to to do that in

755
00:52:25,920 --> 00:52:31,760
a way as best you can.
People come to my house as well for It's

756
00:52:29,360 --> 00:52:34,920
part of my job, so I understand this.
Um Mayor?

757
00:52:33,240 --> 00:52:37,680
» No, I'm just looking around to see if
any

758
00:52:36,080 --> 00:52:43,160
I think we're good. Keep going.
>> Thank you for that question. Um online

759
00:52:40,640 --> 00:52:47,600
um Facebook warrior online warrior
stuff, this is a real problem. More and

760
00:52:45,480 --> 00:52:51,680
more often with schools, to be honest.
Um but can have cities and counties as

761
00:52:48,880 --> 00:52:55,200
well. But, um you know the truth.
You know the truth. You are making

762
00:52:53,000 --> 00:52:59,840
decisions. You have all the data. You
have all the and you're doing that.

763
00:52:57,280 --> 00:53:04,560
It is not your job as a city council
person to be on Facebook and write the

764
00:53:01,800 --> 00:53:08,520
rights and and decline the wrongs. You
can do that. But, the coverage is likely

765
00:53:07,200 --> 00:53:11,840
not going to follow you if someone
alleges that you slandered them or that

766
00:53:10,760 --> 00:53:15,520
you libeled them in this case in
writing. Okay? It's okay to do that.

767
00:53:14,040 --> 00:53:20,080
Once again, but just realize that when
you're doing that it's 11:00 on a

768
00:53:18,040 --> 00:53:23,560
Thursday night.
Be careful. We're we're we're we're

769
00:53:21,360 --> 00:53:27,520
seeing that. Okay? So, that's just my
please. Um you can do it. It's your

770
00:53:25,880 --> 00:53:30,360
first amendment right. But, the umbrella
is going to be

771
00:53:29,000 --> 00:53:34,600
not there.
Um the press call you at home. Have you

772
00:53:32,600 --> 00:53:38,720
guys been contacted by the press at your
house? Um I mean I'm sure of it. Um of

773
00:53:37,000 --> 00:53:42,080
course. That's up to you what to do
that. Um or you have a protocol with

774
00:53:40,920 --> 00:53:45,520
with with the city that you're going to
you're going to have all those questions

775
00:53:43,560 --> 00:53:48,440
go to a certain person at the city and
then from there they may have a

776
00:53:46,960 --> 00:53:52,360
controlled interview where you come in
and discuss it or otherwise, but control

777
00:53:50,480 --> 00:53:56,120
that narrative if you can. Otherwise,
when you're making comments, you're not

778
00:53:54,320 --> 00:53:58,920
a board member officially when you're
making those comments legally. You're

779
00:53:57,800 --> 00:54:01,520
not.
That's your personal opinion about what

780
00:54:00,240 --> 00:54:04,400
the board's doing and what the council's
doing.

781
00:54:02,480 --> 00:54:08,560
But that's not your role with the
umbrella over you at the time. That's

782
00:54:06,320 --> 00:54:11,400
really hard because you know what the
truth and you have an opinion and you

783
00:54:09,680 --> 00:54:15,120
might be running for re-election. You
you know the answers you want to form

784
00:54:12,560 --> 00:54:18,800
the form the the agenda, form the idea
of of of the truth because that's what

785
00:54:16,760 --> 00:54:22,440
you know is only the truth is there.
This could be a problem for that.

786
00:54:20,480 --> 00:54:27,360
But try to do that. That is that is a a
real issue. Then elections um had this

787
00:54:24,840 --> 00:54:30,240
happened during elections one a
commissioner took the signs of another

788
00:54:28,680 --> 00:54:33,760
and burned them. It was a long story.
Just you know, don't do that stuff.

789
00:54:31,200 --> 00:54:37,240
That's just kind of interesting one. Um
auto vehicle damage.

790
00:54:35,640 --> 00:54:40,800
Okay, this is weird but this this
happens as well. When it comes to your

791
00:54:38,960 --> 00:54:44,800
vehicle, okay? Let's say you're going to
go to the city county conference that's

792
00:54:42,760 --> 00:54:47,480
going to be next February. And you know,
you've been authorized that the council

793
00:54:46,200 --> 00:54:49,720
said, yep, you can go you can go you can
go. Great. Three of you guys are going

794
00:54:48,480 --> 00:54:53,800
to go. You're going to drive there in
your personal vehicles and and you get

795
00:54:51,600 --> 00:54:58,440
in an auto accident on the way to or on
the way back from the conference.

796
00:54:56,400 --> 00:55:01,560
You do have auto liability coverage with
the city.

797
00:54:59,880 --> 00:55:05,480
Yours is primary cuz it's your personal
vehicle, but this will be an excess over

798
00:55:04,560 --> 00:55:08,760
you.
Okay? So your deductible's on you.

799
00:55:07,280 --> 00:55:12,440
They're paying you mileage and your
coverage is first. Anything above that

800
00:55:10,760 --> 00:55:16,040
is on the city. Think of it that way,
okay? So but remember that is with

801
00:55:14,520 --> 00:55:19,640
that's outside of this. Coming to this
meeting does not count.

802
00:55:18,280 --> 00:55:21,840
This is expected. This is as as if
you're going to your job. You don't get

803
00:55:20,880 --> 00:55:26,040
you don't get get get get covered by
work comp to go back and forth from your

804
00:55:23,600 --> 00:55:28,840
job. But if your job sends you to a
conference somewhere, a job sends you to

805
00:55:27,360 --> 00:55:33,160
a job somewhere else or a training or
whatever somewhere else, that's

806
00:55:30,560 --> 00:55:37,080
different. That's specific and that's
where the liability of the work comp and

807
00:55:34,760 --> 00:55:39,680
liability of the risk pool would likely
follow you.

808
00:55:38,320 --> 00:55:43,000
Yes, Commissioner Buck?
>> Just to clarify, that's specific to

809
00:55:41,400 --> 00:55:44,920
liability.
>> Right.

810
00:55:43,440 --> 00:55:47,600
» And so,
you know, I know that that often gets

811
00:55:46,080 --> 00:55:50,720
confused.
The the property side of that, the

812
00:55:48,960 --> 00:55:54,840
liability side of that, people people
don't always know where the line is.

813
00:55:52,560 --> 00:55:57,880
We're talking about liability here. So,
we're not talking about damage to your

814
00:55:56,360 --> 00:56:01,520
vehicle and those kind of things.
>> Correct. Yeah, there is no coverage for

815
00:55:59,520 --> 00:56:05,280
your personal vehicle um that you're
driving on on city business. That is

816
00:56:03,600 --> 00:56:09,280
what the mileage is supposed to entail
is the to cover your insurance costs,

817
00:56:07,360 --> 00:56:13,360
your gas costs, your that guy that kind
of So, the personal the vehicle damage

818
00:56:11,280 --> 00:56:17,600
that you incur cuz you hit somebody or
otherwise, your vehicle is not covered

819
00:56:15,640 --> 00:56:21,080
by the city. That's personal.
The liability that you incur on behalf

820
00:56:19,080 --> 00:56:26,520
of the city, direction and control,
course and scope, that is within the

821
00:56:23,000 --> 00:56:30,200
policy. Great great clarification.
Okay? All right.

822
00:56:28,800 --> 00:56:34,240
This is amazing stuff, right? Okay,
here's the good news, ish.

823
00:56:32,720 --> 00:56:36,640
You you do have coverage in fact Oh,
this is an older slide. I know, sorry.

824
00:56:35,920 --> 00:56:41,880
Um
the you do have coverage uh with city

825
00:56:38,600 --> 00:56:44,200
county for ethics violations, okay? Um
there could be things that that you

826
00:56:42,920 --> 00:56:47,480
could be accused of doing. This is a
personal allegation. Let's say that you

827
00:56:46,280 --> 00:56:50,240
you went into a you gave a session the
wrong way, or you might have a perceived

828
00:56:49,360 --> 00:56:54,200
um
um issue where you have uh

829
00:56:52,640 --> 00:56:57,840
you know, your your brother is a is a
contractor and there's a conflict of

830
00:56:55,360 --> 00:57:01,160
interest. You name it. The OGEC, Oregon
Government Ethics um commission, comes

831
00:56:59,480 --> 00:57:04,280
in and says, you know,
Commissioner Stout, I keep picking on

832
00:57:02,320 --> 00:57:09,120
you, sorry. Commissioner Stout, we we
believe that you did X improperly, and

833
00:57:06,280 --> 00:57:12,480
we're here to find you $1,000.
Okay? And that happens. That happens not

834
00:57:11,160 --> 00:57:16,640
because of you, I'm just kidding y'all.
But um but it could happen any time.

835
00:57:14,760 --> 00:57:21,320
City-county and all the other risk pools
as well have a a defense cost coverage

836
00:57:19,720 --> 00:57:23,560
for the ethic ethics complaint of board
members

837
00:57:22,320 --> 00:57:28,800
going against them. They've increased
that to $25,000 recently, okay, per per

838
00:57:26,600 --> 00:57:32,960
member and per um
uh per entity. But, the biggest part of

839
00:57:31,560 --> 00:57:37,440
that is you have to tell them right
away, "Hey, I got this complaint and I

840
00:57:34,520 --> 00:57:40,880
want to hire my my attorney, Jeff." And
they go, "Okay, you can hire Jeff."

841
00:57:39,160 --> 00:57:45,760
They will only reimburse you for that
damage if you prevail. You have to win.

842
00:57:43,480 --> 00:57:49,000
You can't be actually guilty of it. If
that's the case, then they're not paying

843
00:57:47,240 --> 00:57:54,520
for that. This was brought up and I love
it because a lot of times we'll be um

844
00:57:52,600 --> 00:57:58,360
we'll see lawsuits or complaints that
are trying to get you to stop doing what

845
00:57:56,640 --> 00:58:02,160
you're doing as a city. And they'll use
it as a weapon to personally attack you

846
00:58:00,520 --> 00:58:05,600
and try and get you to quit.
This is to try and stop that. We have

847
00:58:04,080 --> 00:58:08,880
nothing to do with with this ethics
complaint. It's about the vote we're

848
00:58:06,720 --> 00:58:10,600
about to take on parking meters or about
whatever it might be. It could be

849
00:58:09,680 --> 00:58:14,600
something environmental. It could be
something otherwise. Who knows? But when

850
00:58:12,800 --> 00:58:19,360
when they mobilize and they weaponize
the system, this is there to protect you

851
00:58:16,640 --> 00:58:22,320
up to $25,000 of defense costs if you
prevail.

852
00:58:20,560 --> 00:58:25,680
The biggest biggest take home for this
is if this happens to you, you get an

853
00:58:23,560 --> 00:58:28,800
OGEC complaint, tell the city manager
right away, and then Jamie and I will

854
00:58:27,280 --> 00:58:32,680
help give you in the right direction and
get you whatever um opportunities you

855
00:58:30,640 --> 00:58:36,120
can or or may choose to do. But just
don't wait, do it right away, and we'll

856
00:58:34,360 --> 00:58:40,360
go from there, okay?
Thank you.

857
00:58:38,400 --> 00:58:44,840
Um volunteer um just a quick little
thing about volunteers um two minutes.

858
00:58:42,520 --> 00:58:48,600
Uh volunteers are just unpaid employees.
They are they are just as exposed, just

859
00:58:47,320 --> 00:58:52,080
as difficult, just as dangerous
sometimes. They're just not paid. So, be

860
00:58:50,160 --> 00:58:55,480
aware of of volunteers. They're
approved. What what they do matters. And

861
00:58:54,320 --> 00:58:58,640
so, um it's great that we have
volunteers. We love volunteers. We need

862
00:58:56,840 --> 00:59:03,960
volunteers. But their liability is
yours. It's just unpaid employees.

863
00:59:01,760 --> 00:59:08,360
Same thing. Um if this person's driving
home from work, strikes a pedestrian on

864
00:59:05,720 --> 00:59:11,240
the sidewalk, the employee driving home,
that would not be covered. The employee

865
00:59:09,560 --> 00:59:13,800
coming back from a conference, that
would be covered the same way we talked

866
00:59:12,360 --> 00:59:18,480
about that with Commissioner Buck for
liability cases.

867
00:59:16,680 --> 00:59:21,480
Okay. Hey, one last thing here. So,
really um

868
00:59:19,960 --> 00:59:25,440
just make sure that you're deliberate
about about the ideas that you do, okay?

869
00:59:23,560 --> 00:59:29,160
So, course and scope direction control.
Before you do things um that are that

870
00:59:27,440 --> 00:59:32,800
are you believe on behalf of the city,
make sure am I authorized to do that?

871
00:59:31,240 --> 00:59:37,160
How do how we talked about that? Is this
part of the committee or not? If it is,

872
00:59:34,720 --> 00:59:40,520
great. Do your best. If it's not, either
accept that or ask the council to be a

873
00:59:39,480 --> 00:59:43,880
little more deliberate and make sure
that you are under the umbrella. Okay, I

874
00:59:41,800 --> 00:59:47,280
want no surprises. I I love what you
guys do for the community. It matters.

875
00:59:45,400 --> 00:59:50,640
It really does. And I don't want to have
surprises for you guys. So, ask those

876
00:59:48,800 --> 00:59:53,600
questions. Please let us know if you
have any of those and thank you very

877
00:59:51,960 --> 00:59:59,200
much. Any questions for me?
>> Are there Are there any more questions?

878
00:59:57,080 --> 01:00:02,040
I think this was helpful. Um I saw Mayor
Bridget taking some notes about places

879
01:00:00,720 --> 01:00:05,760
we might be able to clean up our
process, right? Like there's a lot of

880
01:00:03,840 --> 01:00:10,720
focus on getting the stuff right right
now and so thanks for help helping us to

881
01:00:08,400 --> 01:00:13,600
think through. And MB, um I'm also
thinking about the planning

882
01:00:11,680 --> 01:00:17,480
commissioners, too, right? Those are
people that, you know, have a lot more

883
01:00:14,960 --> 01:00:22,360
exposure. If we have language that that
can make it into their bylaws to help

884
01:00:19,680 --> 01:00:23,920
clarify when they're acting in role.
>> Okay.

885
01:00:22,720 --> 01:00:26,680
» I would be supportive of that, too.
>> I'll follow up and then I'll be back

886
01:00:25,160 --> 01:00:29,480
before you on September 28th to talk
about your operating policies so we can

887
01:00:28,280 --> 01:00:31,160
continue that then.
>> Great. Thank you so much.

888
01:00:30,600 --> 01:00:33,560
» Thank you very much.
>> Thank you.

889
01:00:34,280 --> 01:00:36,680
What's that?

890
01:00:37,120 --> 01:00:43,000
We We are adjourned from our work
session and then we will reconvene at

891
01:00:41,040 --> 01:00:46,200
7:05.
Right?

892
01:00:44,760 --> 01:00:49,760
Thank you for your patience, everybody.
I'm going to call the Springfield City

893
01:00:48,200 --> 01:00:51,360
Council regular session to order with
roll call.

894
01:00:50,280 --> 01:00:52,840
» Mayor Van Gordon. Here.
>> Councilor Weber.

895
01:00:52,400 --> 01:00:54,520
» Here.
>> Councilor Moe.

896
01:00:54,080 --> 01:00:55,720
» Here.
>> Councilor Bilyeu.

897
01:00:55,360 --> 01:00:57,040
» Here.
>> Councilor Quadros.

898
01:00:56,680 --> 01:00:58,160
» Here.
>> Councilor Beck.

899
01:00:57,720 --> 01:00:59,640
» Here.
>> And Councilor Stout.

900
01:00:58,960 --> 01:01:03,440
» Here. Thank you.
>> Please join me with the pledge of

901
01:01:00,840 --> 01:01:03,440
allegiance.

902
01:01:06,120 --> 01:01:08,680
» Pledge of allegiance.
>> I pledge

903
01:01:08,200 --> 01:01:12,720
» allegiance
>> to the United States of America.

904
01:01:10,280 --> 01:01:14,720
» To the Republic for which it stands,
>> one nation

905
01:01:13,800 --> 01:01:19,520
» under God,
>> indivisible,

906
01:01:15,840 --> 01:01:19,520
» with liberty and justice for all.

907
01:01:27,000 --> 01:01:32,320
» There is one designated time for public
testimony this evening under business

908
01:01:30,640 --> 01:01:35,520
from the audience. If you're attending
in person, please complete the request

909
01:01:34,000 --> 01:01:38,760
to speak card located at the front of
the council chambers and turn them into

910
01:01:37,160 --> 01:01:43,120
the city recorder.
If you're joining us online with a

911
01:01:40,640 --> 01:01:46,560
tablet, smartphone, or computer and wish
to speak during business from the

912
01:01:44,600 --> 01:01:50,280
audience, please raise your hand use the
raise your hand feature in Zoom.

913
01:01:48,360 --> 01:01:54,880
The order for public testimony is as
follows. Anyone in person in the council

914
01:01:52,720 --> 01:01:57,680
chambers and then anybody who has raised
their virtual hand.

915
01:01:56,600 --> 01:02:01,440
First item, please.
>> Mayor, the first item is the consent

916
01:01:58,920 --> 01:02:01,440
calendar.

917
01:02:01,720 --> 01:02:06,520
» I move approval of the consent calendar.
>> Second.

918
01:02:05,240 --> 01:02:09,640
» All right. Does anybody want have a
discussion for the consent calendar? All

919
01:02:08,640 --> 01:02:11,200
right. Neil, could you call the vote,
please?

920
01:02:10,040 --> 01:02:12,600
» Yes, Counselor Weber.
>> Yes.

921
01:02:11,640 --> 01:02:13,880
» Counselor Moe.
>> Yes.

922
01:02:12,960 --> 01:02:15,400
» Counselor Rodley.
>> Yes.

923
01:02:14,320 --> 01:02:16,720
» Counselor Quadros.
>> Yes.

924
01:02:15,800 --> 01:02:17,960
» Counselor Buck.
>> Yes.

925
01:02:17,040 --> 01:02:21,520
» And Counselor Stout.
>> Yes, thank you.

926
01:02:19,360 --> 01:02:25,320
» All right. Motion passes six yeses, zero
noes. Next item, please.

927
01:02:22,960 --> 01:02:29,160
» Next item is business from the audience.
>> All right. I have three cards. I'm going

928
01:02:27,240 --> 01:02:33,240
to call you up and state your name and
location from city for the record and

929
01:02:31,240 --> 01:02:35,640
then you will have 3 minutes. Uh David
Willis.

930
01:02:47,880 --> 01:02:55,760
» David Willis, resident resident uh 2276
36 Court.

931
01:02:53,280 --> 01:02:57,880
And tonight I'm representing the
uh

932
01:02:56,360 --> 01:03:01,280
Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day
Saints as a Springfield Stake

933
01:02:59,320 --> 01:03:05,680
Communications Director
volunteer.

934
01:03:02,960 --> 01:03:10,320
And uh I brought some things. Uh we
wanted to say we appreciate the very the

935
01:03:07,920 --> 01:03:13,080
many volunteer hours that you spend in
terms of

936
01:03:11,640 --> 01:03:18,920
helping to make our community a
wonderful and a safe place to live.

937
01:03:15,640 --> 01:03:23,880
Uh the pears were 100% harvested by
volunteers with professional oversight.

938
01:03:21,880 --> 01:03:28,040
They're grown in Southern Oregon on one
of our church's humanitarian farms.

939
01:03:26,400 --> 01:03:31,400
These farms throughout the country are
run by skilled farmers and volunteers

940
01:03:29,960 --> 01:03:34,600
who give of their time and talents to
help others.

941
01:03:32,880 --> 01:03:38,440
From this particular farm, pears will be
distributed to community food banks

942
01:03:36,560 --> 01:03:43,000
throughout Oregon, including Food for
Lane County here in our own community.

943
01:03:40,920 --> 01:03:46,320
Most of the pears will be canned and
then distributed throughout the world

944
01:03:44,760 --> 01:03:49,360
through our church's humanitarian food
system.

945
01:03:47,640 --> 01:03:53,600
We hope the information provided will
help you understand the production and

946
01:03:51,040 --> 01:03:57,040
distribution process a little better and
see how many lives are benefited through

947
01:03:55,400 --> 01:04:00,240
the volunteer work and care of others
without placing any demands of

948
01:03:58,920 --> 01:04:03,440
government.
We especially want to thank

949
01:04:02,240 --> 01:04:07,720
the mayor,
the city council, and all of the staff

950
01:04:05,600 --> 01:04:11,320
of the city of Springfield for your work
in bringing to pass the construction and

951
01:04:09,640 --> 01:04:15,960
dedication of the Willamette Valley
Temple of the Church of Jesus Christ of

952
01:04:13,640 --> 01:04:20,400
Latter-day Saints this past June.
The open house during 3 weeks hosted

953
01:04:18,120 --> 01:04:23,560
38,000 people.
Um,

954
01:04:21,840 --> 01:04:28,400
I'm just happy if someone talks to me,
so that that it was really nice.

955
01:04:26,480 --> 01:04:32,160
And everything from security, parking,
hosting, and so forth was conducted by

956
01:04:30,440 --> 01:04:35,440
volunteers with a little professional
oversight.

957
01:04:33,560 --> 01:04:38,760
Having attended city council the past 3
years, I feel it is important to

958
01:04:36,960 --> 01:04:42,920
acknowledge that most of the citizens of
all persuasions and service clubs

959
01:04:41,000 --> 01:04:46,520
quietly go about helping others and the
community without being demanding or

960
01:04:45,040 --> 01:04:50,560
demonstrative.
These pears can be representative of

961
01:04:48,360 --> 01:04:54,840
that type of citizenship.
Uh, the the harvest was impacted by a

962
01:04:53,000 --> 01:04:59,680
late frost, so they're not quite as
large, but I'm told they're just as

963
01:04:56,480 --> 01:05:03,040
sweet. Thank you.
>> Thank you. And

964
01:05:02,000 --> 01:05:06,680
the next uh,
next person is Chris Blankenship.

965
01:05:15,400 --> 01:05:21,080
» All right. Uh yeah, I'd like to talk
about um

966
01:05:18,520 --> 01:05:23,720
a beautification plan restoration plans
>> Sir, could you please could you state

967
01:05:22,280 --> 01:05:28,480
your name and address for the record?
>> I'm sorry. Curtis Blankenship, uh Ward

968
01:05:26,040 --> 01:05:32,720
4. Is that enough?
So, I wanted to talk about doing a

969
01:05:30,040 --> 01:05:34,880
restoration beautification project for
um

970
01:05:33,480 --> 01:05:41,400
Glenwood.
Uh similar to what is done uh it's

971
01:05:37,920 --> 01:05:45,960
called Seattle Restored .com. I sent you
guys a a link to that email in a in a

972
01:05:43,720 --> 01:05:50,440
general email. But, while I know you
have a a redevelopment plan, but I

973
01:05:48,360 --> 01:05:56,800
wanted to just beautify
There's a 30% vacancy rate in all cities

974
01:05:54,640 --> 01:06:01,800
of commercial property because you're
buying stuff online. So, there isn't as

975
01:05:58,680 --> 01:06:06,680
much big uh brick and mortar. And so, I
you guys are waiting for a big box store

976
01:06:03,800 --> 01:06:11,360
to redevelop uh Glenwood the Glenwood
area. And I mean I that's all very good.

977
01:06:09,520 --> 01:06:15,520
I just want to do some beautification
while we wait for that. And it would

978
01:06:13,560 --> 01:06:20,200
increase our tax base. I own property
here. I'd like my property values to go

979
01:06:17,480 --> 01:06:22,480
up which would increase your tax base.
And um

980
01:06:21,440 --> 01:06:28,720
it would be a better use of your
development funds to to do this to

981
01:06:26,400 --> 01:06:30,800
increase the tax base
rather than

982
01:06:30,240 --> 01:06:35,920
uh
spending a huge amount of money hoping

983
01:06:32,960 --> 01:06:40,960
for big box retail. Where and and I know
you're using uh incremental tax funding

984
01:06:38,000 --> 01:06:46,120
to finance the redevelopment plan. So,
again, you can wait longer and wait for

985
01:06:42,760 --> 01:06:52,560
those tax funds to to pay for your
bigger development plan. So, um

986
01:06:50,520 --> 01:06:56,520
You know, the other way to So, the what
you will find on Seattle Restored is a

987
01:06:54,400 --> 01:06:59,240
way it's the insurance. It's it's uh
ironic that you guys are talking about

988
01:06:57,600 --> 01:07:02,640
insurance cuz it's the insurance is the
problem with uh

989
01:07:00,840 --> 01:07:08,040
with doing this uh restoration cuz I I
would like to see, you know, an art uh

990
01:07:05,640 --> 01:07:12,320
community garden art space and some
homeless services put into into there.

991
01:07:10,160 --> 01:07:15,600
So, the insurance is the issue. You
know, like I say, you can use your

992
01:07:13,480 --> 01:07:19,040
development funds for that. Uh, but you
know, there's abusive There's abusive

993
01:07:17,760 --> 01:07:24,360
land uh,
owners in this town that you could tax

994
01:07:21,800 --> 01:07:28,680
abusive land owners. And you know, um,
Walmart removed their trash cans,

995
01:07:26,760 --> 01:07:33,320
Walmart Springfield, from their parking
lot. And you know, they produce

996
01:07:31,600 --> 01:07:36,880
uh, the packaging. They sell products
with packaging. They should be

997
01:07:34,680 --> 01:07:40,800
responsible for that packaging. So,
there's a tax There's an plenty of

998
01:07:38,440 --> 01:07:44,680
opportunity to tax these corporations,
these abusive land owners, and

999
01:07:42,240 --> 01:07:49,960
corporations. And I don't want my tax
dollars going to pay for Target uh,

1000
01:07:47,280 --> 01:07:53,800
shoplifting for my for the police to
uh,

1001
01:07:50,520 --> 01:07:58,200
use use their time to protect um, Target
and big box stores from shoplifting. I'd

1002
01:07:55,400 --> 01:08:02,320
much rather that money be used to
restore and beautify uh, Glenwood while

1003
01:08:00,240 --> 01:08:06,360
we're waiting for the funds for your
redevelopment plan. And I'd like to talk

1004
01:08:04,240 --> 01:08:09,880
to the um, economic director if I could
on that. I've I've emailed them several

1005
01:08:08,240 --> 01:08:11,520
times. Thank you for your time and your
service.

1006
01:08:10,560 --> 01:08:16,880
» Thank you.
Uh,

1007
01:08:12,280 --> 01:08:16,880
the last card is Miguel Rivas.

1008
01:08:26,200 --> 01:08:35,000
» Uh, hello. Hope can I get closer?
Uh, yep. My name is Miguel Rivas. I'm in

1009
01:08:32,759 --> 01:08:42,080
Ward 2 of Springfield.
And I'm mostly here to talk about data

1010
01:08:38,120 --> 01:08:45,240
centers. Uh, currently there is no
rumors. There's nothing that I've heard

1011
01:08:44,040 --> 01:08:50,440
of data centers happening in
Springfield. But that's why I think like

1012
01:08:47,520 --> 01:08:54,400
it's a great time. It's way better to
for me to be talking about this before

1013
01:08:52,240 --> 01:08:58,920
there's any development plans, before
there's things that you guys have all

1014
01:08:55,480 --> 01:09:03,319
signed off on, and like can't take back.
So, I think this is a a time to be

1015
01:09:00,720 --> 01:09:08,279
talking about data centers. They're a
national issue going on, so it's good to

1016
01:09:06,000 --> 01:09:11,560
be preemptive about this.
Um

1017
01:09:09,680 --> 01:09:16,120
I don't think and I feel like a lot of
people don't really see data centers as

1018
01:09:13,640 --> 01:09:21,240
like a Raising Cane's or a Chick-fil-A.
It's not just like another

1019
01:09:19,160 --> 01:09:24,600
business place. I feel like a lot of the
public is going to see data centers as a

1020
01:09:23,400 --> 01:09:28,720
very
government-based

1021
01:09:26,720 --> 01:09:34,040
uh government-associated
thing even if legally it is it isn't.

1022
01:09:31,560 --> 01:09:40,480
Even if it's on private property or not
on public land, I feel like it is

1023
01:09:36,279 --> 01:09:44,960
something important to be discussing
uh from our local city.

1024
01:09:42,880 --> 01:09:49,480
Um I do know that
Springfield is historically very

1025
01:09:46,520 --> 01:09:52,839
friendly to corporations. Um it's very
much

1026
01:09:50,680 --> 01:09:56,160
focused on developing the economy of
Springfield

1027
01:09:54,200 --> 01:10:00,920
and I see value in that.
Um I see

1028
01:09:57,920 --> 01:10:05,600
I do see how
that could

1029
01:10:02,920 --> 01:10:10,320
become a point of issue. If data centers
did come in, then maybe the enormous

1030
01:10:08,560 --> 01:10:17,160
like tax exemptions given to
corporations or the amount of money and

1031
01:10:14,040 --> 01:10:21,240
support that corporations are given,
I feel like the public would very much

1032
01:10:19,720 --> 01:10:25,600
finally be
looking at these policies as these

1033
01:10:23,400 --> 01:10:31,440
corporate-friendly policies that
Springfield has had as something that

1034
01:10:28,400 --> 01:10:36,920
isn't for them. If data centers came
because I feel a lot of the public will

1035
01:10:34,560 --> 01:10:40,440
disagree with data centers in general.
Springfield doesn't want data centers

1036
01:10:39,080 --> 01:10:44,440
and we really don't want them to be
given any kind of red carpet treatment

1037
01:10:42,880 --> 01:10:48,240
where they're given like a ton of tax
exemptions and all of that just to be

1038
01:10:46,760 --> 01:10:50,600
built in here.
Thank you.

1039
01:10:50,720 --> 01:10:56,400
» Thank you. That was the last card I had.
Neil, do you have anybody online?

1040
01:10:54,720 --> 01:11:00,240
» Okay, so we have no hands online.
>> Okay. does anybody have council

1041
01:10:57,840 --> 01:11:04,600
response? Council Roddy?
>> Thank you. Um and I just want to

1042
01:11:02,600 --> 01:11:07,480
um thank David and Chris and Miguel for
coming out tonight. It's our first time

1043
01:11:06,360 --> 01:11:12,480
back, so I love that y'all were
tracking. Um I am also interested in us

1044
01:11:10,920 --> 01:11:16,880
having a conversation, particularly
around data centers, and I it's starting

1045
01:11:14,880 --> 01:11:20,480
to be a bubbling conversation. I will
say that earlier in the year, nobody was

1046
01:11:19,040 --> 01:11:25,400
talking about in Springfield cuz we
really like you said, don't have the

1047
01:11:22,320 --> 01:11:28,720
land for it. But more and more um and I
think it it would be helpful to have it

1048
01:11:27,400 --> 01:11:32,320
as a city. And also know that we're
trying to have this conversation as a

1049
01:11:30,080 --> 01:11:36,240
state, which could sort of preempt
whatever we do. But I think more and

1050
01:11:34,520 --> 01:11:41,000
more folks are interested in let's let's
start to have a conversation about where

1051
01:11:38,560 --> 01:11:45,120
we're at and and what are our processes
and land use and all of that. So, I

1052
01:11:43,720 --> 01:11:48,800
think we're at the beginning of that,
but I am someone who's also fairly

1053
01:11:46,880 --> 01:11:52,440
interested in us digging into that. So,
thank you.

1054
01:11:50,680 --> 01:11:56,000
» Councilor Buck.
>> Yeah. I I also I also appreciate you

1055
01:11:54,240 --> 01:12:00,960
bringing bringing up the conversation. I
think that the focus for the council is

1056
01:12:00,120 --> 01:12:05,360
um
is is bringing value to to Springfield

1057
01:12:03,520 --> 01:12:09,920
in a lot of different ways. And by
supporting businesses that that do

1058
01:12:07,240 --> 01:12:13,920
employ our people here and and do
provide something. You you cited Raising

1059
01:12:12,240 --> 01:12:17,440
Cane's or Chick-fil-A.
That's a place where where people can

1060
01:12:16,120 --> 01:12:21,040
spend their money, they can work, they
can

1061
01:12:18,480 --> 01:12:24,680
that that creates real value on multiple
levels. And I think that's what we're

1062
01:12:22,480 --> 01:12:28,600
looking for. And and I'm very interested
in in furthering that conversation.

1063
01:12:26,760 --> 01:12:31,400
Because I don't know
what was specific to data centers, I

1064
01:12:29,880 --> 01:12:34,800
don't know what value that would really
look like. And so, I think that that's a

1065
01:12:33,520 --> 01:12:38,640
great conversation to bring up. So,
thank you for that.

1066
01:12:37,320 --> 01:12:41,400
» Uh Councilor Stone.
>> Um

1067
01:12:39,640 --> 01:12:46,440
agreed with my fellow councilors there.
The other thing I would ask is if Mr.

1068
01:12:44,000 --> 01:12:49,640
Blankenship, can you share I was looking
through my emails and I could not find

1069
01:12:48,480 --> 01:12:53,280
the links. I don't know if they just got
missed through the city. If you could

1070
01:12:51,520 --> 01:12:57,320
resubmit any of those links, I'd be very
interested in your project, especially

1071
01:12:55,240 --> 01:13:00,480
as the one of the things, uh, that I
also sit on is the Springfield Economic

1072
01:12:59,040 --> 01:13:04,760
Development Area with, which is all the
TIF financing that you were speaking

1073
01:13:02,040 --> 01:13:09,840
about. And I certainly think, um,
I I think that's a very involved

1074
01:13:06,600 --> 01:13:12,880
conversation and, um, I think you might
we might find we have many things in in

1075
01:13:11,440 --> 01:13:15,880
common on the route that you're thinking
there. Uh, but along the way, yes, the

1076
01:13:14,520 --> 01:13:19,320
beautiful cal can we beautify things
along the way is a really important

1077
01:13:16,960 --> 01:13:23,320
conversation. So, um, if you could re-
resubmit those, I would be very happy to

1078
01:13:21,000 --> 01:13:26,560
look at those. Thank you.
>> All right. Anybody else?

1079
01:13:26,720 --> 01:13:31,840
All right. Thank you so much.
Next item, please.

1080
01:13:30,080 --> 01:13:35,480
» Uh, next item under ordinances is the
International Way annexation. This is an

1081
01:13:33,680 --> 01:13:40,440
ordinance annexing certain territory
identified as Assessor's Map

1082
01:13:37,440 --> 01:13:40,440
17-03-15-00,

1083
01:13:41,720 --> 01:13:47,280
tax lot 5400, and Map 17-03-15-30,

1084
01:13:47,760 --> 01:13:53,880
tax lot 400, to the City of Springfield
and the Willamalane Park and Recreation

1085
01:13:51,880 --> 01:13:58,320
District, adopting a severability
clause, and providing an effective date.

1086
01:13:56,200 --> 01:14:01,760
This is the fourth reading, and Kristina
Kraaz is here for this item.

1087
01:14:02,240 --> 01:14:09,480
» Thank you, Mayor and Council. You know,
we write those ordinances to be long

1088
01:14:05,440 --> 01:14:09,480
titled, so we have time to walk up here.

1089
01:14:09,960 --> 01:14:17,400
So, this evening, um,
we are here for the International Way

1090
01:14:15,160 --> 01:14:22,160
annexation.
And as a reminder,

1091
01:14:20,400 --> 01:14:26,520
there we go. I just want to make sure I
I always click the wrong direction on

1092
01:14:23,560 --> 01:14:30,520
this. So, um, bear with me if I go the
wrong way on the slides. As a reminder,

1093
01:14:28,280 --> 01:14:34,120
this is a quasi-judicial annexation
process.

1094
01:14:31,720 --> 01:14:39,040
Um, application by PeaceHealth and Lane
County for 17.99 acres on International

1095
01:14:36,880 --> 01:14:45,080
Way, shown in the map above, and the
application number is 81126,

1096
01:14:42,720 --> 01:14:48,560
00004,
type four.

1097
01:14:46,320 --> 01:14:54,680
Um, I'm going to pause for a moment if
any city councilors have any ex parte

1098
01:14:50,840 --> 01:14:59,360
contacts that you wish to declare or any
um conflicts of interest in this matter.

1099
01:14:57,320 --> 01:15:04,760
» All right, we'll start with uh counselor
Mao and if you could declare any ex

1100
01:15:01,480 --> 01:15:09,000
parte contacts or conflicts of interest.
>> I had no ex parte contact with anybody.

1101
01:15:09,880 --> 01:15:15,040
» You go ahead.
Wait, hang on counselor Mao. Could you

1102
01:15:13,040 --> 01:15:17,960
clarify? Do you have any contacts uh
conflicts of interest?

1103
01:15:19,240 --> 01:15:23,800
» I think it's what I was sort of saying.
I have no conflict of interest.

1104
01:15:25,640 --> 01:15:31,400
» Uh I have no conflicts of interest and
I've had no ex parte contact.

1105
01:15:31,560 --> 01:15:38,120
» I have no new ex parte contact um and
I'll just restate I have a potential

1106
01:15:36,400 --> 01:15:44,120
conflict of interest as a property owner
in the Gateway area.

1107
01:15:40,800 --> 01:15:47,200
» I had no ex parte contact and I have a
potential conflict of interest. My

1108
01:15:45,560 --> 01:15:50,600
employer is in the health care industry
and may do business with PeaceHealth.

1109
01:15:51,160 --> 01:15:57,840
» I have no conflicts of interest. Um I
will say on August 1st I attended a

1110
01:15:55,920 --> 01:16:01,800
Drifters game and while there Kelly
Richardson shared high-level concerns

1111
01:15:59,520 --> 01:16:05,080
with me regarding the draft annexation
agreement. I made it clear to him that I

1112
01:16:03,400 --> 01:16:07,560
could not share my opinions or any
thoughts on the matter.

1113
01:16:06,960 --> 01:16:10,600
Um
the concerns that he mentioned to me

1114
01:16:09,080 --> 01:16:14,600
informally that evening are now
reflected in detail in the letter

1115
01:16:12,840 --> 01:16:19,080
submitted on August 6th by Richardson
Sports attorney ensuring they are part

1116
01:16:16,240 --> 01:16:24,680
of the official record.
>> No ex parte con- contacts and no

1117
01:16:21,600 --> 01:16:24,680
conflicts of interest.

1118
01:16:24,880 --> 01:16:31,000
» I have no ex parte but it was noted in
the packet that the site is currently

1119
01:16:29,080 --> 01:16:34,400
within the Eugene School District 4J's
boundary.

1120
01:16:32,200 --> 01:16:37,600
Uh 4J appears as only a service
provider.

1121
01:16:35,760 --> 01:16:41,880
Um according to the packet there is no
residential population generated by the

1122
01:16:39,640 --> 01:16:47,040
project. There is no financial interest
nor ethics conflict. However, I felt it

1123
01:16:44,440 --> 01:16:50,720
prudent to mention that I am employed by
Eugene 4J School District.

1124
01:16:51,160 --> 01:16:56,720
» We're going to get good at this by the
time this is over.

1125
01:16:55,000 --> 01:17:01,520
» Thank you for that. Um because there
were no ex parte contacts that were

1126
01:16:59,440 --> 01:17:05,640
disclosed that include information not
already provided to the applicants to

1127
01:17:03,480 --> 01:17:11,280
respond to, um there's no need for the
council to reopen the record or or

1128
01:17:07,640 --> 01:17:16,440
provide more opportunity for a hearing.
To give a quick overview for my plan for

1129
01:17:14,760 --> 01:17:21,360
guiding helping guide you through some
discussion this evening, we're going to

1130
01:17:18,160 --> 01:17:24,960
start with a brief process up update to,
you know, just this is your first

1131
01:17:22,640 --> 01:17:28,520
meeting back from a well-deserved break
and I want to reground with where we're

1132
01:17:26,640 --> 01:17:33,000
at. We'll review the criteria of
approval. We'll touch on House Bill

1133
01:17:30,640 --> 01:17:36,240
2005, which has now been codified in
state law.

1134
01:17:34,480 --> 01:17:40,240
Um we'll focus on comprehensive plan
consistency and finally next steps.

1135
01:17:40,680 --> 01:17:46,640
As a process update, you last met on
this topic on June 22nd. At that

1136
01:17:44,680 --> 01:17:49,240
meeting, you closed the record for new
evidence

1137
01:17:47,800 --> 01:17:52,240
and the parties have submitted their
final arguments, which are in your

1138
01:17:51,080 --> 01:17:57,280
packet.
Um I we have a staff prepared updated

1139
01:17:55,080 --> 01:18:02,120
findings because council has not given
direction on whether you want to

1140
01:17:59,760 --> 01:18:07,240
further examine approving or denying.
There is a draft um ordinance that

1141
01:18:04,680 --> 01:18:12,560
you've now on your fourth reading of
a annexation agreement that was

1142
01:18:09,360 --> 01:18:16,840
negotiated they negotiated by city staff
with the express understanding that city

1143
01:18:14,280 --> 01:18:21,000
council needs to review and weigh in.
And there are findings both for uh if

1144
01:18:19,240 --> 01:18:25,120
you were to take a direction to approve
to give feedback on or if you were to

1145
01:18:22,760 --> 01:18:28,360
take to direction to deny an order that
could be used to do that with proposed

1146
01:18:27,000 --> 01:18:33,400
findings there.
I want to note some um errors in the

1147
01:18:31,200 --> 01:18:39,040
just really quickly some errors in the
staff report that goes with the

1148
01:18:35,240 --> 01:18:43,040
ordinance. Um I had drafted a finding
regarding a mistaken version of an IGA

1149
01:18:41,560 --> 01:18:48,200
with ODOT that was submitted by Mr.
Gelardi. The error was not attributable

1150
01:18:45,840 --> 01:18:52,240
to Mr. Gelardi in any way. He pointed
out that the version he submitted to our

1151
01:18:50,040 --> 01:18:57,160
packet um, for your consideration is
what ODOT has published. So, there's

1152
01:18:53,880 --> 01:19:02,240
apparently an incorrect version of um,
the executed IGA on ODOT's website. And

1153
01:19:00,440 --> 01:19:05,720
so, we will I will work with city staff
to try to follow up to correct that. Um,

1154
01:19:04,200 --> 01:19:09,840
and I want to apologize for Mr. Gelardi
if in any way implied that there was

1155
01:19:07,520 --> 01:19:13,760
intentional misrepresentation of facts.
That wasn't my intent in the finding.

1156
01:19:12,000 --> 01:19:16,960
Um, and it isn't It certainly isn't what
happened.

1157
01:19:14,920 --> 01:19:22,760
And they also made a couple errors in
regards to, um, directions. I referenced

1158
01:19:19,960 --> 01:19:26,000
some locations being west of the subject
site that are actually east of the

1159
01:19:24,040 --> 01:19:28,920
subject site. Mr. Limbert pointed that
out to me, um, and that will be

1160
01:19:27,360 --> 01:19:34,160
corrected in the,
um, if that staff report moves forward.

1161
01:19:32,120 --> 01:19:39,280
And then very briefly again, there was a
record objection to some information in

1162
01:19:36,880 --> 01:19:42,480
the applicant's final written testimony.
That is addressed in the staff report. I

1163
01:19:41,000 --> 01:19:47,480
recommend the council through your
adopted findings just reject that

1164
01:19:45,160 --> 01:19:50,960
information that was, um, objected to as
being outside the record. And just that

1165
01:19:49,400 --> 01:19:55,120
you adopt a finding that says you're
excluding that from your consideration.

1166
01:19:53,600 --> 01:19:59,840
Any questions on those sort of really
brief procedural Okay.

1167
01:19:58,200 --> 01:20:04,240
Then,
not seeing any questions,

1168
01:20:02,120 --> 01:20:08,080
I want to remind the council that we're
going to focus on

1169
01:20:06,280 --> 01:20:12,280
criteria of approval tonight. This is
quasi-judicial.

1170
01:20:10,280 --> 01:20:17,680
Quasi-judicial,
um,

1171
01:20:13,640 --> 01:20:24,640
decisions are site-specific,
um, decisions. This

1172
01:20:20,840 --> 01:20:28,320
decision is not about the value that the
applicant's proposed use of this

1173
01:20:26,200 --> 01:20:32,360
property has for the community. This
council is not asked to weigh the

1174
01:20:30,680 --> 01:20:37,040
relative importance of crisis
stabilization services or behavioral

1175
01:20:34,400 --> 01:20:41,120
health facilities for the community. I
understand that that's a very important

1176
01:20:39,040 --> 01:20:47,680
issue to the community, but that's not
the city council's role in a quasi

1177
01:20:43,960 --> 01:20:51,600
quasi-judicial annexation process.
The council has to follow your criteria

1178
01:20:49,840 --> 01:20:55,920
of approval, and that's a requirement of
state law. It's a requirement that is

1179
01:20:53,920 --> 01:20:59,400
grounded in long-standing legal
framework for this type of site-specific

1180
01:20:58,000 --> 01:21:02,880
decision-making,
and the purpose is to ensure that your

1181
01:21:01,400 --> 01:21:05,960
decisions are based on a fair and
consistent process,

1182
01:21:04,640 --> 01:21:10,120
and that
that your the rules that apply to that

1183
01:21:07,600 --> 01:21:14,360
process are knowable to all parties in
advance.

1184
01:21:12,440 --> 01:21:19,640
The criteria for annexation are in
Springfield Development Code 5.7140.

1185
01:21:17,120 --> 01:21:23,000
Two criteria are clearly met with this
application, and there's no there's been

1186
01:21:21,160 --> 01:21:25,760
no dispute at any point that these two
are not met, and that is that the

1187
01:21:24,240 --> 01:21:28,680
property is inside the urban growth
boundary, and it is contiguous to city

1188
01:21:27,560 --> 01:21:32,560
limits.
The other three criteria are more

1189
01:21:30,400 --> 01:21:36,560
substantive and are in dispute between
the applicants and and some public

1190
01:21:34,720 --> 01:21:40,720
testimony that you've received. The
first criteria is what I want to focus

1191
01:21:38,840 --> 01:21:45,240
this session tonight on, and that is
consistency with the comprehensive plan.

1192
01:21:43,440 --> 01:21:48,880
The city's comprehensive plan is a
long-term

1193
01:21:46,840 --> 01:21:54,440
planning document that guides how the
city how the city council, with input

1194
01:21:52,080 --> 01:21:58,160
from the community, intends for the city
to develop in the next approximately 20

1195
01:21:56,400 --> 01:22:02,400
years for meeting our need for
employment land,

1196
01:21:59,720 --> 01:22:06,800
for housing, and then for other public
facilities and services designed to

1197
01:22:03,840 --> 01:22:11,160
support those various uses. So, that's
what um we're going to focus on tonight.

1198
01:22:08,480 --> 01:22:16,000
I recognize there are significant issues
and a lot of public comment on

1199
01:22:13,400 --> 01:22:20,480
the ability to provide this property and
these proposed uses with key urban

1200
01:22:18,200 --> 01:22:25,440
facilities and services, infrastructure,
and as well as some concerns with the

1201
01:22:22,520 --> 01:22:29,480
staff annexation agreement.
We've talked about um previously I

1202
01:22:27,640 --> 01:22:35,760
talked about with you that the criteria
for annexation follow a hierarchy.

1203
01:22:32,200 --> 01:22:38,480
So, really the council needs to make a
decision, and not necessarily final

1204
01:22:37,440 --> 01:22:41,560
decision, but needs to give some
direction on if you think this

1205
01:22:39,960 --> 01:22:46,840
annexation is consistent with the
comprehensive plan policies about the

1206
01:22:44,440 --> 01:22:49,880
proposed uses, um, or it could be
consistent with the right

1207
01:22:47,800 --> 01:22:53,920
infrastructure, or if you think that it
is just not consistent with the

1208
01:22:52,080 --> 01:23:00,240
comprehensive plan policies around
campus industrial designation. Because

1209
01:22:56,840 --> 01:23:04,200
your decision on that point will govern
whether it's necessary for you to make

1210
01:23:01,800 --> 01:23:08,600
decisions about infrastructure and the
annexation agreement.

1211
01:23:06,640 --> 01:23:12,040
So, I'm hoping we can stick to that
middle one, and we'll get to what with

1212
01:23:10,680 --> 01:23:15,440
the next two when we get to next steps
at the end of the session.

1213
01:23:15,720 --> 01:23:21,360
Before we get into the comprehensive
plan, I want to touch base again on

1214
01:23:19,280 --> 01:23:25,160
House Bill 2005.
There's been a lot of discussion about

1215
01:23:22,920 --> 01:23:30,320
the superseding bill, as it's called,
um, and how it relates to this

1216
01:23:26,320 --> 01:23:37,480
annexation. I want to be clear that the
statute, now codified at ORS 197A.386,

1217
01:23:35,080 --> 01:23:41,880
does not apply to your annexation
decision. It's relevant to the

1218
01:23:39,520 --> 01:23:46,720
annexation because it governs, or not
doesn't govern, it is relevant to what

1219
01:23:44,920 --> 01:23:51,200
the applicants intend to do with the
property and how they want to move

1220
01:23:48,280 --> 01:23:54,560
forward after annexation. So, it's a
reason

1221
01:23:52,680 --> 01:23:59,600
for assuming certain uses may be
developed on the site, but it does not

1222
01:23:56,680 --> 01:24:02,960
bind or apply as law to your decision at
annexation.

1223
01:24:00,880 --> 01:24:10,640
And the reason for that is because there
is no pending development application

1224
01:24:05,800 --> 01:24:10,640
for either of the proposed future uses.

1225
01:24:11,360 --> 01:24:17,440
And then, there's this also, in
addition, there's a second part of the

1226
01:24:14,680 --> 01:24:22,440
statute that is up here. The House Bill
2005, Section 60, does not apply on land

1227
01:24:20,200 --> 01:24:26,400
where the local government, that's you,
determines the facility cannot be

1228
01:24:24,040 --> 01:24:30,760
adequately served by those services that
the city provides, water, sewer,

1229
01:24:28,160 --> 01:24:34,640
stormwater, drainage, or streets. Even
if there were concurrently submitted

1230
01:24:33,080 --> 01:24:38,760
development applications with the
annexation,

1231
01:24:36,200 --> 01:24:43,360
the city council would still have the
role and authority to determine if the

1232
01:24:40,720 --> 01:24:47,280
facility can be provided adequate
adequately with those services, which is

1233
01:24:45,320 --> 01:24:52,760
also going to depend on your
comprehensive plan and the policies that

1234
01:24:49,600 --> 01:24:52,760
you've set for this property.

1235
01:24:53,120 --> 01:24:58,640
But, to be clear, at this time, the
state law does not apply. So, I want to

1236
01:24:57,040 --> 01:25:00,880
get that out of the way and I answer any
questions that you have about that

1237
01:24:59,760 --> 01:25:05,560
before we move forward.
>> All right. Any questions?

1238
01:25:03,120 --> 01:25:08,640
Is that disputed at all in the record?
Are Are does everybody agree that state

1239
01:25:07,160 --> 01:25:11,880
law is not applying in this the
superseding appeal is not applying in

1240
01:25:10,640 --> 01:25:15,480
this situation?
>> The applicants have acknowledged that

1241
01:25:13,720 --> 01:25:19,200
the superseding bill does not apply.
However, they've also made the argument

1242
01:25:17,400 --> 01:25:24,000
that it does still apply because you
can't apply policies. That would mean

1243
01:25:22,160 --> 01:25:27,640
they have to change the comp plan before
it can be annexed. I don't know how both

1244
01:25:25,760 --> 01:25:30,800
of those things can be true. I'm not
sure what the legal theory is there that

1245
01:25:29,080 --> 01:25:33,440
it doesn't apply, but you also have to
use it.

1246
01:25:31,920 --> 01:25:37,360
Um and so, my recommendation is just
that it doesn't apply, and I don't think

1247
01:25:35,600 --> 01:25:42,200
there's any serious legal dispute that
it governs your decision.

1248
01:25:39,520 --> 01:25:42,200
» Okay, thank you.

1249
01:25:46,280 --> 01:25:51,880
» Okay. So, getting into the comprehensive
plan

1250
01:25:49,640 --> 01:25:56,040
criteria. I'm going to walk my my plan
for this section is to sort of walk you

1251
01:25:53,800 --> 01:26:02,520
through the decision-making framework
that I recommend.

1252
01:25:57,800 --> 01:26:08,080
Um and then we'll get to a point where,
once we have kind of gone through the

1253
01:26:04,960 --> 01:26:13,000
way this criteria plays out with the
what I feel is the the

1254
01:26:10,080 --> 01:26:18,080
most important first policy to
address around planned urban uses, um

1255
01:26:16,480 --> 01:26:21,600
then there'll be time that either the
city council can begin your discussion

1256
01:26:19,960 --> 01:26:24,680
if you're ready or we I can give some
examples of two different paths you

1257
01:26:23,120 --> 01:26:27,800
could take and we can talk about that
further.

1258
01:26:26,200 --> 01:26:32,000
So, the comprehensive plan consistency
criteria says the proposed annexation,

1259
01:26:30,640 --> 01:26:35,480
so this is the requirement to approve
it, if it is consistent with applicable

1260
01:26:34,160 --> 01:26:39,800
policies in the Springfield
comprehensive plan, metro plan, and any

1261
01:26:38,080 --> 01:26:43,120
applicable refinement plans or plan
districts.

1262
01:26:41,400 --> 01:26:48,680
As some background here, the Springfield
comprehensive plan is the city's own

1263
01:26:45,720 --> 01:26:54,840
specific long-range urban development
plan that um, replaces the metro plan in

1264
01:26:52,680 --> 01:27:00,880
several key areas. The metro plan is the
prior long-standing Eugene-Springfield

1265
01:26:57,280 --> 01:27:04,680
total area plan. Since 2007, Springfield
and Eugene have been working on our own

1266
01:27:02,480 --> 01:27:11,040
independent metro independent plans that
will eventually replace the metro plan.

1267
01:27:07,000 --> 01:27:14,200
For um, the housing element, for
economic um,

1268
01:27:13,080 --> 01:27:19,280
the economic element, so that's
employment opportunities, for land use

1269
01:27:16,720 --> 01:27:24,160
specific policies, and for urbanization,
which is the process of annex annexing

1270
01:27:21,720 --> 01:27:28,160
and developing urban uses, the
Springfield comprehensive plan controls

1271
01:27:26,000 --> 01:27:33,200
the metro plan. The metro plan still
applies in Springfield for issues around

1272
01:27:30,760 --> 01:27:36,320
topics like natural hazards, natural
resources, public facilities and

1273
01:27:35,240 --> 01:27:40,000
services.
And then this area is in the Gateway

1274
01:27:37,520 --> 01:27:43,680
refinement plan, there is no plan
district that applies.

1275
01:27:44,760 --> 01:27:49,960
Getting into the urbanization element,
the number one policy, the very first

1276
01:27:48,080 --> 01:27:53,520
policy in the element is the one that I
think is most important for you to

1277
01:27:51,520 --> 01:27:58,080
consider first. And that is that
urbanizable lands within the 2030 UGB,

1278
01:27:56,000 --> 01:28:02,920
that's the Springfield UGB, shall be
converted to urban uses as shown in the

1279
01:28:00,600 --> 01:28:06,720
Springfield comprehensive plan map, and
more particularly described in

1280
01:28:04,560 --> 01:28:10,680
neighborhood refinement plans and the
policies of this plan.

1281
01:28:08,840 --> 01:28:14,720
I also included a little bit of text
from urbanization element policy 30 that

1282
01:28:13,240 --> 01:28:20,040
I think um
calls back to policy one and reinforces

1283
01:28:17,800 --> 01:28:24,120
the importance of policy one. And that's
And the part the relevant part of that

1284
01:28:22,240 --> 01:28:28,400
policy is that unincorporated land in
the Springfield UGB may be developed

1285
01:28:26,360 --> 01:28:32,120
with permitted uses at maximum density
only upon annexation to the city when

1286
01:28:30,640 --> 01:28:35,240
it's found that key urban facilities and
services can be provided to the area to

1287
01:28:33,680 --> 01:28:37,640
be annexed in an orderly and efficient
manner.

1288
01:28:39,240 --> 01:28:45,120
So, how do you interpret what that
policy means and it whether this

1289
01:28:43,480 --> 01:28:49,280
annexation complies?
First, we have to know what some terms

1290
01:28:46,600 --> 01:28:52,960
mean. Urbanizable land is land that is
in the Springfield UGB but not yet

1291
01:28:50,800 --> 01:28:56,680
annexed. That clearly applies here.
Urban uses

1292
01:28:54,520 --> 01:29:00,920
I recommend are uses described in the
applicable plan based on the

1293
01:28:58,520 --> 01:29:04,720
comprehensive plan map designation. And
that's looking at the definition of

1294
01:29:02,240 --> 01:29:07,600
urban uses in the context of the
statewide planning goals that that

1295
01:29:06,080 --> 01:29:13,000
policy language comes from, which are
statewide planning goal 14 and 11.

1296
01:29:11,360 --> 01:29:18,040
The comprehensive plan map designation
for this property is campus industrial.

1297
01:29:15,960 --> 01:29:21,160
The land use element is one part of the
Springfield comprehensive plan that

1298
01:29:19,400 --> 01:29:25,480
gives an explanation of each of the
city's designations. And then the

1299
01:29:23,600 --> 01:29:30,160
Gateway refinement plan also has policy
language describing the campus

1300
01:29:26,760 --> 01:29:30,160
industrial plan designation.

1301
01:29:30,520 --> 01:29:36,960
The Gateway refinement plan refers to
this property as part of the Gateway SLI

1302
01:29:34,760 --> 01:29:39,720
site. SLI means special light
industrial.

1303
01:29:38,160 --> 01:29:43,680
And states that it's intended to
implement the Metro plan's special light

1304
01:29:41,880 --> 01:29:47,240
industrial designation.
When the land use element for

1305
01:29:45,040 --> 01:29:51,640
Springfield was adopted, that SLI
designation is superseded and replaced

1306
01:29:49,720 --> 01:29:55,320
with the campus industrial designation.
So, instead of special light industrial,

1307
01:29:53,680 --> 01:29:58,560
it's referred to as campus industrial in
Springfield and that better matches the

1308
01:29:57,120 --> 01:30:02,520
name of the zone.
Um otherwise, the purpose and

1309
01:30:00,480 --> 01:30:05,680
description of those two designations
were um

1310
01:30:03,760 --> 01:30:09,280
essentially equivalent.
The land use element then gives a long

1311
01:30:07,560 --> 01:30:12,960
description of the purpose of the campus
industrial designation, and that's in

1312
01:30:11,280 --> 01:30:17,760
the staff report and findings, but I'm
also putting it up on the slides.

1313
01:30:15,960 --> 01:30:21,840
And the council we can come back to this
as many times as we need to, so I'm not

1314
01:30:20,120 --> 01:30:25,560
going to read it all out loud, but some
key

1315
01:30:23,120 --> 01:30:29,080
I think parts of this
uh policy language is that the primary

1316
01:30:27,440 --> 01:30:32,560
objective of the designation is to
provide opportunities for

1317
01:30:30,320 --> 01:30:35,960
diversification of the local economy
through siting of light industrial firms

1318
01:30:34,160 --> 01:30:39,360
in a campus-like setting.
The activities of such firms must be

1319
01:30:37,840 --> 01:30:43,400
obscure from public view and have
external impacts less than or equal to

1320
01:30:41,280 --> 01:30:47,280
office uses, such as noise pollution and
vibration.

1321
01:30:44,680 --> 01:30:52,080
Then there's more explanation around
large-scale large-scale light industrial

1322
01:30:49,880 --> 01:30:55,640
uses are the primary focus of the
designation, but provision should also

1323
01:30:54,120 --> 01:30:59,800
be made for small and medium-scale
industrial uses within the context of

1324
01:30:57,960 --> 01:31:03,480
industrial and business parks, which
will maintain a campus-like setting. It

1325
01:31:01,840 --> 01:31:06,080
describes some complimentary uses like
corporate office headquarters and

1326
01:31:04,760 --> 01:31:10,760
supporting commercial establishments
serving primary may also be cited on a

1327
01:31:08,200 --> 01:31:14,360
limited basis.
And then the description also has

1328
01:31:12,080 --> 01:31:17,320
requirements for conceptual like this is
site-specific requirements now.

1329
01:31:16,120 --> 01:31:22,040
Conceptual development planning
performance standards or site review

1330
01:31:18,680 --> 01:31:26,040
processes to be applied to ensure some
goals of that campus um industrial

1331
01:31:24,360 --> 01:31:28,920
district. Adequate circulation
functional coordination among uses on

1332
01:31:27,480 --> 01:31:33,040
each site, high-quality environmental
setting and compatibility with adjacent

1333
01:31:30,560 --> 01:31:35,000
areas. There's a 50 minimum minimum lot
size

1334
01:31:34,200 --> 01:31:37,760
um
to protect undeveloped sites from

1335
01:31:36,320 --> 01:31:41,680
piecemeal development until site plan
development plans been approved. That's

1336
01:31:40,000 --> 01:31:45,600
doesn't apply to this application
because this application's not seeking

1337
01:31:43,040 --> 01:31:51,120
to divide anything. So, it's really the
first part of this policy um

1338
01:31:48,640 --> 01:31:54,880
that is going to
govern the how the city council wants to

1339
01:31:53,360 --> 01:31:59,600
interpret whether this annexation is
consistent. So, this is a big this is I

1340
01:31:57,520 --> 01:32:03,280
think this is the main crux of the
question in front of council tonight is

1341
01:32:01,800 --> 01:32:07,320
do you
um

1342
01:32:04,280 --> 01:32:12,040
support interpreting this policy
language that the proposed annexation

1343
01:32:09,400 --> 01:32:17,800
for proposed future uses is consistent
with this policy language or do you

1344
01:32:14,440 --> 01:32:21,520
believe that it's inconsistent? Um and
this is a good point for me to ask if

1345
01:32:19,840 --> 01:32:26,400
you have any questions.
If you want to begin deliberations after

1346
01:32:24,040 --> 01:32:30,360
we've asked answered questions, we can
do that, but we also have I also have a

1347
01:32:28,360 --> 01:32:34,400
framework if you're struggling can walk
through some options of what

1348
01:32:31,800 --> 01:32:37,880
interpretations are I think legally
permissible.

1349
01:32:36,480 --> 01:32:41,920
» All right, Council Redly.
>> All right, I'm just going to dive in. Is

1350
01:32:39,920 --> 01:32:47,480
there a land use designation that is
specific to medical or that sort of use?

1351
01:32:45,480 --> 01:32:53,480
Do we have a land use or do we often
tuck this into other things?

1352
01:32:50,680 --> 01:32:57,360
» I that's a really great question and I
could take a moment to look at the

1353
01:32:54,680 --> 01:33:01,880
commercial um description in the land
use element.

1354
01:32:58,960 --> 01:33:04,880
The medical services district is one
that is a zoning district that's

1355
01:33:03,400 --> 01:33:11,000
intended for medical uses and it
implements the commercial designation.

1356
01:33:07,680 --> 01:33:14,760
So typically um when medical uses are
intended to be a very important or

1357
01:33:12,600 --> 01:33:18,040
primary part of a development, the
medical services district can be

1358
01:33:16,680 --> 01:33:24,840
appropriate and that implements a
commercial designation. But medical uses

1359
01:33:20,680 --> 01:33:28,400
are also um service oriented uses or um
sort of

1360
01:33:25,920 --> 01:33:33,200
that those public service oriented types
that are talked about generally in a

1361
01:33:30,760 --> 01:33:37,360
commercial or a mixed use with a
commercial element to it.

1362
01:33:36,080 --> 01:33:39,760
And I can do a really quick search to
see if medical specifically discussed in

1363
01:33:39,120 --> 01:33:43,160
the
>> Well, and you're getting to what I was

1364
01:33:41,480 --> 01:33:48,040
trying to get to is if there is another
land use designation that we often find

1365
01:33:45,640 --> 01:33:52,080
and that's the mixed use and such. But
the zoning is a different layer, right?

1366
01:33:50,640 --> 01:33:57,040
» Correct and that's a good point. I want
to I would I should clarify one of the

1367
01:33:54,080 --> 01:34:01,760
comments that was made um by both the
applicants and the opponents was to call

1368
01:33:59,280 --> 01:34:04,000
back to the council's EWEB annexation
decision

1369
01:34:03,080 --> 01:34:08,120
um
that you previously made. And um if

1370
01:34:06,960 --> 01:34:11,720
you'll recall on the same night you held
your first public hearing in this

1371
01:34:09,160 --> 01:34:15,680
matter, you also adopted the ordinance
on um EWEB's proposed code amendments.

1372
01:34:14,600 --> 01:34:19,520
So,
uh applicants have said in the EWEB

1373
01:34:17,520 --> 01:34:23,480
annexation, you knew that the EWEB was
going to use the property for something

1374
01:34:21,400 --> 01:34:29,040
not allowed in the code, and you didn't
apply the comprehensive plan to prevent

1375
01:34:25,880 --> 01:34:32,680
that annexation. The um opponents have
said, "Well, that's a completely

1376
01:34:30,120 --> 01:34:36,480
different context, and it's not It
doesn't govern your decision here." Um

1377
01:34:35,040 --> 01:34:41,520
and what I would say is it's D, none of
the or C, none of the above. In the EWEB

1378
01:34:39,000 --> 01:34:45,000
annexation, the council considered the
proposed future uses, but the council

1379
01:34:43,720 --> 01:34:50,120
did not make a finding that those
proposed future uses were inconsistent

1380
01:34:47,440 --> 01:34:53,880
with the comprehensive plan
for that property.

1381
01:34:51,720 --> 01:34:58,040
And in fact, the council
on in May amended the development code

1382
01:34:56,600 --> 01:35:01,760
to say that those proposed uses were
allowed, which required a finding of

1383
01:34:59,840 --> 01:35:05,600
consistency with a comprehensive plan.
So, I will acknowledge that the findings

1384
01:35:04,000 --> 01:35:10,200
are not necessarily very clear in that
EWEB annexation decision that's

1385
01:35:06,920 --> 01:35:13,600
mentioned in the record, but um it does
reinforce when you read through all the

1386
01:35:11,560 --> 01:35:17,560
findings that the proposed uses were
part of the city council's decision

1387
01:35:15,320 --> 01:35:21,880
making. Um and so yes, I would say that
what the zoning allows doesn't govern.

1388
01:35:20,000 --> 01:35:24,560
Something can be not allowed under the
development code other than zoning, but

1389
01:35:23,200 --> 01:35:28,880
still consistent with the comprehensive
plan if it just hasn't been added to the

1390
01:35:26,800 --> 01:35:33,920
code because the code can't cover every
conceivable circumstance. But also, the

1391
01:35:31,840 --> 01:35:39,440
fact that something is not allowed in
the code may be persuasive evidence that

1392
01:35:36,440 --> 01:35:42,320
it's inconsistent with the designation.
>> Uh Counselor Weber.

1393
01:35:42,520 --> 01:35:49,160
» Thank you, Kristina. I don't have any
questions. Um if other councilors do, um

1394
01:35:47,120 --> 01:35:51,960
I think we should hear those, but
if if not, I'm ready to just make a

1395
01:35:51,120 --> 01:35:55,280
statement.
>> you want.

1396
01:35:53,560 --> 01:35:59,840
Okay.
Uh so I wrote this out just so I don't

1397
01:35:57,200 --> 01:36:03,760
kind of get lost in my thoughts here.
The decision we make today isn't about

1398
01:36:02,080 --> 01:36:07,920
whether the need for a behavioral health
facility exists. I think we all agree

1399
01:36:06,000 --> 01:36:12,360
it's a really serious issue and it's one
that needs to be addressed. Today's

1400
01:36:09,880 --> 01:36:16,720
decision at its core is a land use
decision that requires this council to

1401
01:36:14,440 --> 01:36:20,640
fairly and consistently apply annexation
criteria.

1402
01:36:18,000 --> 01:36:24,800
House Bill 2005 does not take effect
until an annexation agreement is

1403
01:36:22,560 --> 01:36:29,360
approved. That means the bill's
provisions are not active today and they

1404
01:36:26,880 --> 01:36:32,840
cannot be used to justify annexation
before the agreement itself is

1405
01:36:31,440 --> 01:36:36,560
finalized.
We are still required to make our

1406
01:36:34,280 --> 01:36:40,240
findings under the comprehensive plan,
the urbanization element, and the

1407
01:36:38,280 --> 01:36:44,760
gateway refinement plan.
I do not believe this application meets

1408
01:36:42,120 --> 01:36:48,200
the criteria established in these plans
and I am uncomfortable approving a

1409
01:36:46,520 --> 01:36:51,480
one-off annexation agreement that would
effectively set a precedent for future

1410
01:36:50,000 --> 01:36:55,880
one-offs.
Springfield has worked hard to maintain

1411
01:36:53,360 --> 01:36:59,840
consistency and predictability in our
land use decisions and I do not believe

1412
01:36:57,920 --> 01:37:02,880
it serves the community to make
exceptions that later become

1413
01:37:01,280 --> 01:37:07,200
expectations.
Instead, I think the responsible path is

1414
01:37:05,360 --> 01:37:11,800
to take a holistic look at our zoning
requirements, particularly in areas

1415
01:37:09,920 --> 01:37:15,760
where we may want to support econom-
economic development, and determine

1416
01:37:14,080 --> 01:37:19,040
whether a broader rezoning approach is
appropriate.

1417
01:37:17,120 --> 01:37:24,040
If the council believes certain types of
uses are important for Springfield's

1418
01:37:20,760 --> 01:37:27,560
long-term long-term economic future,
then we should evaluate that through a

1419
01:37:25,480 --> 01:37:31,560
comprehensive, transparent process that
includes community input.

1420
01:37:29,720 --> 01:37:35,920
My interest is in what best serves
Springfield's future development needs

1421
01:37:33,360 --> 01:37:38,960
and not in creating isolated exceptions
that bypass the larger policy

1422
01:37:37,520 --> 01:37:44,400
conversation.
For that reason, I am not prepared to

1423
01:37:40,800 --> 01:37:44,400
support this annexation request.

1424
01:37:45,400 --> 01:37:50,760
» All right.
Other folks, do you guys have questions?

1425
01:37:51,920 --> 01:37:56,640
Um could you take a second
Oh, good, Counselor Stone.

1426
01:37:55,400 --> 01:38:01,280
» So, I think I'm a little bit confused
about the exact status of the annexation

1427
01:37:58,600 --> 01:38:07,000
agreements. Uh
I see the I see an agreement here, but

1428
01:38:04,840 --> 01:38:10,640
I I'm just confused. Are Are we trying
to discern whether or not this is a

1429
01:38:09,120 --> 01:38:13,120
valid one? Can you just Can you walk me
through this, please?

1430
01:38:12,000 --> 01:38:17,880
» Yeah, I'm going to go back up to the
slide that has the criteria of approval.

1431
01:38:20,280 --> 01:38:26,240
» And I think one of the point, I mean,
one of the criteria is that we have an

1432
01:38:24,040 --> 01:38:29,560
annexation agreement with signed with
the city, and it was not there in any of

1433
01:38:27,680 --> 01:38:33,960
the previous meetings that we've had.
>> Correct. After the the um

1434
01:38:32,400 --> 01:38:38,440
my understanding of the direction from
Council in June 22nd was we're not sure

1435
01:38:36,320 --> 01:38:42,640
if we will if we are prepared to approve
or deny this, but one of the concerns

1436
01:38:40,880 --> 01:38:46,160
would be if there's an annexation
agreement that moves forward, if that's

1437
01:38:44,160 --> 01:38:50,040
not included in the record, then that
might be grounds for a procedural

1438
01:38:48,560 --> 01:38:54,360
challenge later on. So, knowing that the
Council may want to approve this

1439
01:38:51,840 --> 01:38:58,920
application, um we felt as staff it was
important to develop um

1440
01:38:57,040 --> 01:39:03,160
an annexation agreement that staff could
support um

1441
01:39:01,520 --> 01:39:06,640
and negotiate that with the applicant so
that it could be put in the record,

1442
01:39:04,960 --> 01:39:11,000
um and there could be response to it for
Council's consideration if you want to

1443
01:39:08,120 --> 01:39:14,360
move that forward. We're on step what I
would say step three of applying the

1444
01:39:12,480 --> 01:39:17,840
criteria, and the annexation agreement's
at step five.

1445
01:39:16,080 --> 01:39:22,040
So, I think that um
an annexation agreement or some other

1446
01:39:20,200 --> 01:39:27,000
form of mitigating fiscal impact, sorry,
would be appropriate, but you can't get

1447
01:39:24,600 --> 01:39:32,640
to that step unless you decide whether
it's consistent with a comprehensive

1448
01:39:29,400 --> 01:39:36,880
plan at a higher level because
um

1449
01:39:33,600 --> 01:39:40,480
I mean, if if the annexation is not
consistent with the comprehensive plan,

1450
01:39:38,440 --> 01:39:45,200
we can't determine if the minimum level
of key urban facilities and services can

1451
01:39:42,840 --> 01:39:48,000
be provided to a use that's the council
finds is inconsistent with a

1452
01:39:46,440 --> 01:39:50,200
comprehensive plan.
Um

1453
01:39:50,960 --> 01:39:55,880
» Are you done, Councillor Stout?
>> Yep. Yeah, that's

1454
01:39:52,960 --> 01:39:55,880
» Uh Councillor Rodli.

1455
01:39:56,440 --> 01:40:02,680
» You'll see what I do. Um
Thank you.

1456
01:39:59,400 --> 01:40:05,120
So, I I feel a little differently about
this or I'm thinking a little

1457
01:40:03,680 --> 01:40:11,200
differently about this than Councillor
Webber. Um I I'm really First of all, I

1458
01:40:09,240 --> 01:40:15,880
appreciate that we have reined it in cuz
I think that's part of it felt like like

1459
01:40:13,800 --> 01:40:20,400
we do annexation conversations all the
time. And this particular one got taken

1460
01:40:18,400 --> 01:40:24,760
to a whole other place that was not at
all what we're all used to doing, which

1461
01:40:22,880 --> 01:40:27,640
I think caused a little bit of friction
as we're like trying to say, "Look, we

1462
01:40:26,360 --> 01:40:30,040
don't usually talk about these things.
We we know how to do annexation

1463
01:40:29,040 --> 01:40:35,280
agreements."
I think for me um exactly where we're at

1464
01:40:33,600 --> 01:40:38,440
right now is the conversation that I
wanted to have, whether or not this

1465
01:40:36,840 --> 01:40:44,320
fits. And the fact that it's still a
little wiggly, I'm not convinced that it

1466
01:40:40,800 --> 01:40:47,160
doesn't fit. So, I'm more interested in
um

1467
01:40:45,280 --> 01:40:52,600
to Councillor Webber's point of wanting
to have a process, like is is this is

1468
01:40:50,400 --> 01:40:56,840
this a means to that process? To have
this conversation, and this is you know,

1469
01:40:54,720 --> 01:41:00,320
we had a about a year or so ago, we had
another business that came in and wanted

1470
01:40:58,280 --> 01:41:05,760
to do something that folks some folks
felt outside of the um the business use.

1471
01:41:04,040 --> 01:41:09,280
It wasn't an annexation conversation,
but it was like, "Can we do this

1472
01:41:07,120 --> 01:41:14,160
business in the gateway area?" And we
had to have that conversation to make

1473
01:41:10,680 --> 01:41:17,040
that decision. So, I am I am interested
in

1474
01:41:15,000 --> 01:41:21,960
how do we
how do we, if we can, get to yes on

1475
01:41:19,680 --> 01:41:25,960
this? And if we can't, where can this
facility go? So, that's where I'm at.

1476
01:41:24,360 --> 01:41:29,520
I'm I'm not convinced that it doesn't
fit the comprehensive plan. That's why I

1477
01:41:28,160 --> 01:41:33,000
was asking like, "Do we have other
designations?" And if we don't, where

1478
01:41:31,400 --> 01:41:40,360
would we ordinarily fit this? And the
fact that um we have so many other

1479
01:41:36,800 --> 01:41:44,440
medical uses in that area also sort of
pulls me in the direction of is there a

1480
01:41:42,320 --> 01:41:48,160
way to get there? I'm also not convinced
that there's a way to get there based on

1481
01:41:46,080 --> 01:41:52,160
just the simple
annexation criteria, but I'm not ready

1482
01:41:50,040 --> 01:41:56,360
to shut the conversation down in terms
of trying to figure out does it fit or

1483
01:41:54,040 --> 01:42:00,360
seeing how my fellow my fellow
counselors feel about whether or not it

1484
01:41:57,840 --> 01:42:03,160
could or couldn't fit.
>> Uh Council Buck.

1485
01:42:04,280 --> 01:42:11,480
» Uh I I I appreciate some of the
articulation, you know, um

1486
01:42:08,960 --> 01:42:15,160
I am extremely supportive of of Peace
Health in the and and and

1487
01:42:13,880 --> 01:42:17,640
the project that they're they're wanting
to put in our community.

1488
01:42:16,920 --> 01:42:22,280
Uh
you know, I spent 5 years as the crisis

1489
01:42:19,960 --> 01:42:26,720
worker that was in the ER that had the
conversations that said, "Are you going

1490
01:42:24,720 --> 01:42:29,280
to go to a secure facility or can we
create a plan to support you to go

1491
01:42:28,280 --> 01:42:31,960
home?"
So,

1492
01:42:30,640 --> 01:42:36,840
you know,
I I need no convincing about the value

1493
01:42:34,960 --> 01:42:41,440
of what Peace Health brings. Like none
whatsoever. And I feel it's extremely

1494
01:42:39,240 --> 01:42:47,200
important that we find a way
to make sure that this facility has a

1495
01:42:43,240 --> 01:42:52,440
home in Springfield. I think
that

1496
01:42:49,480 --> 01:42:58,800
a couple of the places that I'm still
unsure about the fit on on this

1497
01:42:55,520 --> 01:43:02,400
and and and and largely the
I don't want us to get into a place that

1498
01:43:00,400 --> 01:43:07,600
is if if if we're make if the criteria
fits then it fits and great, but if

1499
01:43:04,800 --> 01:43:14,600
we're if we're having to kind of
you know, make adjustments or exceptions

1500
01:43:10,400 --> 01:43:17,720
or amendments to to to make it fit, then
I then I think that needs to get looked

1501
01:43:16,160 --> 01:43:20,840
at because
as I look at the the Gateway refinement

1502
01:43:19,760 --> 01:43:24,200
plan,
um and this may be just how I'm looking

1503
01:43:22,920 --> 01:43:28,200
at it.
I'm looking at

1504
01:43:26,000 --> 01:43:32,200
as somebody who works in that area,
like there's a lot of refining that

1505
01:43:29,480 --> 01:43:36,240
needs to happen, right? I mean, it's not
uh you know, I I don't think there is a

1506
01:43:33,880 --> 01:43:39,840
plan that anybody says, "Hey, this is
the direction we're going." I think it's

1507
01:43:37,560 --> 01:43:44,720
still very much a work in progress and
figuring out how it all fits

1508
01:43:42,240 --> 01:43:50,720
um with a clear process
that that creates a long-term vision.

1509
01:43:47,640 --> 01:43:55,160
I I think it's is is important. Um
sitting sitting here today

1510
01:43:53,160 --> 01:44:01,120
I think that
the question still remains for me

1511
01:43:58,400 --> 01:44:06,440
does this does does this actually fit
inside um our

1512
01:44:03,560 --> 01:44:09,680
our criteria?
I don't know that it does. I don't know

1513
01:44:07,600 --> 01:44:13,080
that it doesn't, kind of like
Councilor Rodli said, but

1514
01:44:11,680 --> 01:44:16,560
I also very agree very much agree with
Councilor Webber that

1515
01:44:14,560 --> 01:44:20,680
we have to stick to something that's
consistent. We have to stick to

1516
01:44:18,440 --> 01:44:23,840
something that makes sense because this
will not be the last time this comes up

1517
01:44:22,560 --> 01:44:28,640
and it's going to have far-reaching
impacts over what we do because we know

1518
01:44:26,920 --> 01:44:34,080
that that changes need to be made in
that area of the city. So

1519
01:44:30,720 --> 01:44:39,480
I'm really hesitant to approve something
not really clear about

1520
01:44:36,880 --> 01:44:43,800
what that ramification is. However, I am
very interested to keep the conversation

1521
01:44:41,080 --> 01:44:47,440
going about how we can make this work.
So, I got two conflicting things there.

1522
01:44:46,240 --> 01:44:50,960
You know, and so I'm not sure that the
land use applies

1523
01:44:49,680 --> 01:44:54,200
but I'm not sure that it doesn't,
either.

1524
01:44:52,760 --> 01:44:58,320
» I
If I can take a minute, I think um I'm

1525
01:44:56,240 --> 01:45:01,840
hearing
I want to recap and make sure that I'm

1526
01:44:59,600 --> 01:45:05,320
understanding. I'm hearing some interest
from

1527
01:45:03,400 --> 01:45:10,000
Councilor Rodli and Councilor Duck to
maybe look at larger legislative actions

1528
01:45:07,720 --> 01:45:13,440
in the future that might clarify things.
Um

1529
01:45:11,240 --> 01:45:17,280
I'm I'm not sure what the questions are
in relation to the annexation the state.

1530
01:45:15,920 --> 01:45:21,800
So, maybe help me understand a little
bit better what additional information

1531
01:45:19,760 --> 01:45:24,680
or guidance
that you know, we we can walk through

1532
01:45:22,960 --> 01:45:29,720
tonight. I do have slides that show two
different ways to interpret the campus

1533
01:45:26,960 --> 01:45:33,000
industrial designation um as it relates
to the application and there probably

1534
01:45:31,680 --> 01:45:36,160
are other ways, but these were the two
that um

1535
01:45:34,720 --> 01:45:40,720
you know, I think are legally
defensible. Um and then how some of the

1536
01:45:38,920 --> 01:45:44,840
facts relate to those proposed
interpretations and then what the

1537
01:45:42,280 --> 01:45:49,480
consequence would be to this annexation
if you went either of those ways.

1538
01:45:46,920 --> 01:45:54,240
Um but then also, you know, it's all the
council does always have an option to

1539
01:45:51,320 --> 01:45:58,720
begin a legislative process to change
the gateway refinement plan or to

1540
01:45:56,280 --> 01:46:02,400
redesignate and rezone, you know,
multiple part parcels or areas of a

1541
01:46:00,480 --> 01:46:06,960
city, but that can't be within a
quasi-judicial process and you have to

1542
01:46:04,440 --> 01:46:12,440
make a quasi-judicial decision based on
the plan and and plan provisions that

1543
01:46:10,040 --> 01:46:16,920
existed when the application was filed.
So, it we can't you couldn't pause the

1544
01:46:14,680 --> 01:46:20,560
annexation, pick up legislative
amendments to do something, you know,

1545
01:46:18,800 --> 01:46:22,040
more policy-based and then resume the
annexation. So, I just want to be clear

1546
01:46:21,640 --> 01:46:25,080
on that.
>> And I think you're hearing us kind of

1547
01:46:23,720 --> 01:46:28,120
struggle with different avenues here,
right? Like one of them is very

1548
01:46:26,680 --> 01:46:33,040
distinctly
um there needs to be a conversation out

1549
01:46:30,560 --> 01:46:38,000
in in North Gateway about what our
vision is, what our zoning is, how do we

1550
01:46:34,560 --> 01:46:42,200
balance between, you know, our tourism
uh sector, our campus industrial sector,

1551
01:46:40,040 --> 01:46:46,200
and a growing medical sector that people
are not aligned on, right? So,

1552
01:46:44,360 --> 01:46:48,880
as we as I'm thinking about it, we have
this conversation about this annexation

1553
01:46:47,760 --> 01:46:54,520
and this piece of property that we're
dealing with, but underneath that,

1554
01:46:51,760 --> 01:46:58,040
you're hearing a lot of questions about,
you know, the future gateway, how do we

1555
01:46:56,360 --> 01:47:01,040
deal with the transportation, and I
would expect that some of those things

1556
01:46:59,800 --> 01:47:06,120
are going to sort of spin off into
additional work after whatever we do

1557
01:47:02,960 --> 01:47:10,120
with this this uh annexation.
And then I think

1558
01:47:08,280 --> 01:47:13,160
I'm hearing you tell us we can't work
those problems, we got to work the

1559
01:47:11,720 --> 01:47:15,760
annexation. That's the thing that's
right That's the thing that's right in

1560
01:47:14,560 --> 01:47:20,320
front of us.
Um my question,

1561
01:47:18,080 --> 01:47:24,240
and if this is in your slides, uh Uh, we
can we can definitely go down we could

1562
01:47:22,680 --> 01:47:28,600
definitely go down that road. As I'm
thinking about, you know, the work we

1563
01:47:26,160 --> 01:47:34,000
did around the Haas property, right? We
basically had a clinic go into, you

1564
01:47:30,480 --> 01:47:37,400
know, 555 International. Um, we've had
another Haas, but like, what are those

1565
01:47:35,680 --> 01:47:40,680
zonings? Cuz the map you showed does
have a,

1566
01:47:38,920 --> 01:47:44,760
uh, does have, I think still has them as
campus industrial.

1567
01:47:42,400 --> 01:47:47,320
» Correct. And the the Haas Office Park,
which was the applicant for those

1568
01:47:46,320 --> 01:47:49,440
development code changes,
>> Right.

1569
01:47:47,680 --> 01:47:53,160
» um, is zoned campus industrial and
continues to be. The findings in that

1570
01:47:51,400 --> 01:47:56,520
decision were based around what's
allowable in business parks, which

1571
01:47:54,560 --> 01:47:59,960
you'll notice, um, provision should also
be made for small and medium-scale

1572
01:47:58,120 --> 01:48:03,440
industrial uses within the context of
industrial and business parks, which

1573
01:48:01,960 --> 01:48:06,560
will maintain a campus-like setting with
minimal environmental impacts.

1574
01:48:05,240 --> 01:48:10,880
While I don't have that ordinance
directly in front of me, I, um, I could

1575
01:48:08,880 --> 01:48:13,280
certainly follow up with the council
with more information, but my

1576
01:48:11,680 --> 01:48:18,240
recollection from that process is that
the findings were around those medical

1577
01:48:15,960 --> 01:48:21,960
uses would be limited to business parks.
Um, and so they're, and also would have

1578
01:48:20,200 --> 01:48:26,120
sort of the same type of external
impacts because of their status in

1579
01:48:23,920 --> 01:48:31,120
business parks, and then also because
business parks have to go through, on

1580
01:48:27,720 --> 01:48:35,920
the second slide, um, those performance,
those campus industrial site performance

1581
01:48:32,720 --> 01:48:40,920
standards and site review process, um,
and impacts to surrounding properties

1582
01:48:38,000 --> 01:48:44,320
needed to be reviewed as part of that,
um,

1583
01:48:42,480 --> 01:48:48,920
those changes. There were also changes
made for more, um,

1584
01:48:46,480 --> 01:48:52,960
more just more public-facing services in
general. Medical services weren't the

1585
01:48:50,360 --> 01:48:57,680
only ones, um, based on some public
testimony and opposition to stand-alone

1586
01:48:54,800 --> 01:49:02,760
medical uses, and public testimony based
on incompatibility with sort of at all

1587
01:49:00,960 --> 01:49:06,880
hours types of medical services or
urgent cares, the council included a

1588
01:49:04,760 --> 01:49:12,440
provision that said, we, you know,
urgent cares or emergency services are

1589
01:49:09,240 --> 01:49:15,960
not permitted because of the impacts
that those would have that the council

1590
01:49:13,760 --> 01:49:20,880
at that time thought would be, um,
not necessarily compatible with the

1591
01:49:18,360 --> 01:49:25,400
campus industrial setting. That doesn't
necessarily mean that you couldn't make

1592
01:49:22,480 --> 01:49:29,160
a different like you couldn't apply the
purpose of this district and make a

1593
01:49:26,880 --> 01:49:34,120
different decision for the applicants
for annexation for the applicants

1594
01:49:30,600 --> 01:49:38,280
proposed uses looking at the um,
the

1595
01:49:35,280 --> 01:49:41,240
policy link, sorry, the
this policy language. Um, but that was

1596
01:49:39,960 --> 01:49:45,040
the decision the council made at that
time around business parks specifically,

1597
01:49:43,440 --> 01:49:46,800
which are called out in the policy
differently than stand-alone

1598
01:49:46,200 --> 01:49:53,240
developments.
>> And what about um, what about the where

1599
01:49:49,600 --> 01:49:59,120
the clinic is at 555 International?
That's the Pacific Source building.

1600
01:49:55,600 --> 01:50:03,760
» Um, which sorry, specify which clinic?
>> I think they opened a clinic that is uh,

1601
01:50:02,360 --> 01:50:10,040
it's Pace maybe?
>> Okay. Um, the my understanding is that

1602
01:50:07,040 --> 01:50:16,320
the Pace clinic was approved as a
secondary or accessory use to the

1603
01:50:12,760 --> 01:50:16,320
overall campus industrial use.

1604
01:50:17,480 --> 01:50:19,840
» Okay.

1605
01:50:21,280 --> 01:50:25,880
I think and I'll I'll turn it over to
folks if they've got more questions. I

1606
01:50:24,720 --> 01:50:30,840
mean, I think it would be helpful to go
through the slides, right? Because where

1607
01:50:28,480 --> 01:50:36,520
where I'm thinking about about it is I
still have questions around does it fit

1608
01:50:34,160 --> 01:50:41,000
in the campus industrial? It
uh, when I think about the annexation,

1609
01:50:38,840 --> 01:50:45,320
um, it you know, it feels like we can
generally serve it. I think

1610
01:50:42,400 --> 01:50:49,240
Councilmember brings up a good good uh,
good point that we have a lot of work in

1611
01:50:47,840 --> 01:50:52,720
front of us, right? Until we have the
final final annexation agreement, until

1612
01:50:51,240 --> 01:50:55,800
we have the transportation questions,
the wheels can kind of come off the bus

1613
01:50:54,200 --> 01:50:59,280
on this thing a couple of a couple of
different ways.

1614
01:50:57,040 --> 01:51:02,920
And I feel like it
it meets the employment standards, but

1615
01:51:01,800 --> 01:51:06,640
where I want to
see a little bit more is around this

1616
01:51:04,320 --> 01:51:10,680
question of okay, how does it fit in
this campus industrial framework?

1617
01:51:08,840 --> 01:51:12,880
» Okay. Um, so
>> Before we get

1618
01:51:11,680 --> 01:51:15,600
off track, I know there's some people
that haven't asked questions. I'm just

1619
01:51:14,360 --> 01:51:18,640
going to give
folks a chance to

1620
01:51:17,800 --> 01:51:22,280
Okay, I don't think we have no
questions. So maybe your two your two

1621
01:51:20,600 --> 01:51:26,480
slides about two competing frameworks
would help us?

1622
01:51:23,160 --> 01:51:31,320
» Yes, but I want to back up briefly to
this slide really quickly

1623
01:51:28,800 --> 01:51:34,000
with the urbanization element
um just to make sure I touch on this

1624
01:51:33,000 --> 01:51:38,760
well.
So urbanizable lands in the 2030 UGB

1625
01:51:36,200 --> 01:51:43,680
shall be converted to urban uses. It
does say as shown on the Springfield

1626
01:51:40,680 --> 01:51:47,800
Comprehensive Plan Map. Um and the plan
map is what provides those designations.

1627
01:51:46,040 --> 01:51:51,920
So I just want to reinforce that that is
the reason that we're talk that's one of

1628
01:51:49,520 --> 01:51:55,840
the reasons we're talking about the
anticipated future uses um because I

1629
01:51:54,880 --> 01:51:59,120
know that that's been a point of
contention. There's an argument that the

1630
01:51:57,520 --> 01:52:02,840
city has to look at annexation in a
vacuum and not consider how the property

1631
01:52:01,000 --> 01:52:07,080
would be used in the future. And I don't
recommend that that's consistent with

1632
01:52:04,920 --> 01:52:11,040
the way that the um comprehensive plan
is written. So before we get to into how

1633
01:52:09,400 --> 01:52:14,240
to interpret that campus industrial
language, I want to make sure the

1634
01:52:11,960 --> 01:52:17,440
council understands and doesn't have
questions about sort of that fundamental

1635
01:52:15,880 --> 01:52:20,560
interpretation because that's different
than what the applicants have asked you

1636
01:52:18,840 --> 01:52:25,040
to to do with this policy.
>> So you're asking us whether or not we're

1637
01:52:23,200 --> 01:52:29,160
clear on
can we interpret the annexation in a

1638
01:52:26,920 --> 01:52:32,120
vacuum versus understand their proposed
use in the absence of I guess a

1639
01:52:31,000 --> 01:52:35,760
development application?
>> Yeah. You're not looking at whether

1640
01:52:33,760 --> 01:52:39,760
their proposed use is specifically
approvable and meets specific criteria

1641
01:52:38,080 --> 01:52:43,160
for development, but whether the
anticipated future uses are My

1642
01:52:41,880 --> 01:52:47,600
recommendation is that you look at
whether their anticipated future uses

1643
01:52:45,360 --> 01:52:50,720
fall within the description of urban
uses as shown in the Springfield

1644
01:52:49,080 --> 01:52:54,920
Comprehensive Plan Map, which means that
you would look to the Comprehensive Plan

1645
01:52:52,640 --> 01:52:58,240
designation policies that are either in
the assignment plan or the land use

1646
01:52:56,520 --> 01:53:01,400
element or both. And I just want to make
sure that that that's a fundamental

1647
01:52:59,480 --> 01:53:04,880
framework that applies to both ways I'm
recommending you could interpret the

1648
01:53:03,160 --> 01:53:10,000
campus industrial designation. So if you
had an issue with that approach, I would

1649
01:53:07,560 --> 01:53:12,360
need to back it up again a level.
>> Okay, but uh

1650
01:53:11,200 --> 01:53:16,240
» pedance
>> I'm seeing some pedance, but we expect

1651
01:53:14,560 --> 01:53:17,680
land use certificates by the time this
is done.

1652
01:53:16,600 --> 01:53:24,040
» think he'll have earned more than
certificates. I think like bull bull and

1653
01:53:19,080 --> 01:53:27,080
diplomas with some tassels to turn. Um
Okay. So,

1654
01:53:25,680 --> 01:53:31,520
sorry, skipping ahead. I'm jumping
around a whole bunch, sorry.

1655
01:53:29,440 --> 01:53:35,440
So, again, there there may be more than
two ways to interpret it, but I think

1656
01:53:33,560 --> 01:53:38,480
there are sort of two general approaches
that you can take when you look at this

1657
01:53:36,960 --> 01:53:43,320
policy language. And I also want to be
clear the city council has discretion to

1658
01:53:41,160 --> 01:53:49,120
interpret your comprehensive plan
policies. The land use board of appeals

1659
01:53:45,760 --> 01:53:51,360
will give you leeway. They can think you
didn't make the best interpretation.

1660
01:53:50,560 --> 01:53:56,000
They would have liked the other
interpretation better, as long as your

1661
01:53:53,640 --> 01:54:00,440
interpretation is plausible and doesn't
clearly contradict sort of the overall

1662
01:53:58,720 --> 01:54:03,480
legal framework and purpose for your
policies, then they will give you

1663
01:54:02,120 --> 01:54:07,080
discretion on the interpretation that
you make. So, I my

1664
01:54:05,440 --> 01:54:09,920
um purpose I think is to bring to you
those options that you have for

1665
01:54:08,520 --> 01:54:12,680
interpreting that.
So, with that said, I think there's kind

1666
01:54:10,960 --> 01:54:16,480
of two ways you could look at this. One
is you could look at, well, what types

1667
01:54:14,600 --> 01:54:20,400
of other employment uses are generally
compatible with a campus industrial

1668
01:54:18,440 --> 01:54:27,680
area, um
based on the sort of broader language in

1669
01:54:24,120 --> 01:54:30,280
that policy. So, other employment kind
of way to summarize this, other

1670
01:54:28,560 --> 01:54:33,560
employment uses may be allowed when
their characteristics are compatible

1671
01:54:32,000 --> 01:54:37,800
with the CI designation and the area
remains primarily focused on light

1672
01:54:35,200 --> 01:54:41,680
industrial uses. So, when the
campus industrial district district as a

1673
01:54:39,720 --> 01:54:44,760
whole, looking at it in as an entire
area,

1674
01:54:42,920 --> 01:54:48,800
maintains its campus industrial
primarily for light industrial uses,

1675
01:54:47,040 --> 01:54:53,160
then you can have sites that develop for
different uses that aren't those

1676
01:54:50,880 --> 01:54:56,640
described in the um designation, as long
as they're have they have some level of

1677
01:54:55,040 --> 01:55:00,760
compatibility.
The other way that you could interpret

1678
01:54:58,240 --> 01:55:04,880
that policy is maybe more not more
limited, but more specific.

1679
01:55:02,960 --> 01:55:08,960
Other employment uses, so not light
industrial firms. There's no dispute, I

1680
01:55:06,440 --> 01:55:11,800
will say, that what the that the planned
future uses of the property is light

1681
01:55:10,280 --> 01:55:15,200
industrial. I don't think anyone is
arguing to you that it fits in that

1682
01:55:13,600 --> 01:55:20,200
primary purpose of the campus industrial
district. So, other employment uses, um

1683
01:55:18,840 --> 01:55:24,520
another way to relate to this is other
employment uses must primarily serve,

1684
01:55:22,080 --> 01:55:28,560
support, or relate to industrial uses,
or be secondary to industrial uses.

1685
01:55:27,080 --> 01:55:32,840
Um I think either of these
interpretations are consistent with the

1686
01:55:30,200 --> 01:55:39,720
code changes you made in the Haas um
application because it either way you

1687
01:55:35,800 --> 01:55:46,080
look at it, in one the other medical or
retail or food service type uses, um

1688
01:55:44,360 --> 01:55:50,280
still ensure the area remains primarily
for campus industrial, light employment,

1689
01:55:48,200 --> 01:55:54,720
or light industrial types type of uses,
and the area um and those business park

1690
01:55:52,720 --> 01:56:00,600
uses are compatible with the surrounding
CI district. On the other industrial

1691
01:55:57,600 --> 01:56:04,680
related uses, those other retail uses
are still within a business park, which

1692
01:56:02,480 --> 01:56:08,360
is approved as itself a campus
industrial use, and is intended to

1693
01:56:06,400 --> 01:56:13,160
accommodate light industrial uses. And
so, those other sort of public-facing

1694
01:56:10,560 --> 01:56:16,760
uses would be secondary to industrial
uses within that business park as a

1695
01:56:15,440 --> 01:56:20,360
whole.
Um so, I want to be clear, I think both

1696
01:56:18,320 --> 01:56:24,720
of these ways kind of keep consistency
with other ways you've applied this this

1697
01:56:22,160 --> 01:56:28,640
designation in the past.
If you took those approaches, then some

1698
01:56:26,960 --> 01:56:32,000
of the facts you might consider to be
relevant, I should change it on here and

1699
01:56:30,440 --> 01:56:36,840
on my own computer because you can't see
my own computer. Um so, looking at

1700
01:56:34,680 --> 01:56:43,320
compatibility with employment uses
generally. So, the the site is about 18

1701
01:56:39,840 --> 01:56:47,240
acres out of uh 280-acre SLI site in the
Gateway Refinement Plan. So, using that

1702
01:56:45,200 --> 01:56:52,080
like sort of area-wide metric,
allowing

1703
01:56:48,720 --> 01:56:57,560
isolated sort of medical type uses on
this site does not primarily change the

1704
01:56:53,920 --> 01:57:02,720
campus industrial area as a whole.
And anticipated uses could be found to

1705
01:57:00,680 --> 01:57:06,720
be like light industrial uses in that
they also diversify diversify local

1706
01:57:04,880 --> 01:57:09,880
economy. They provide jobs.
They would be

1707
01:57:08,000 --> 01:57:13,760
set in a campus-like environment. That's
the way the applicant has proposed it.

1708
01:57:11,560 --> 01:57:18,120
It would be a campus of these two
facilities together. Um the primary

1709
01:57:16,400 --> 01:57:22,000
activities on the site are obscured from
public view. Usually we think of

1710
01:57:20,280 --> 01:57:26,000
obscuring primary activities to mean
like we don't do outdoor storage of

1711
01:57:23,720 --> 01:57:31,320
heavy machinery. We're not doing,
you know, um vehicle repair out in the

1712
01:57:29,320 --> 01:57:37,520
open. We're not uh it's not a lumber
mill type situation where you have store

1713
01:57:33,840 --> 01:57:41,480
like storage of bulk um commodities, uh
you know, open to the public or visible

1714
01:57:39,680 --> 01:57:46,680
to public. And then limits external
impacts um noise pollution and

1715
01:57:43,800 --> 01:57:50,960
vibrations similar to office uses. So I
think medical facilities do have

1716
01:57:48,720 --> 01:57:54,640
generally noise pollution and vibration
similar to off- office uses. I think on

1717
01:57:53,160 --> 01:57:58,080
this compatible employment uses you
could adopt this interpretation but find

1718
01:57:56,280 --> 01:58:02,640
other facts to be more important and
still conclude that the annexations for

1719
01:58:00,720 --> 01:58:05,760
these proposed uses is inconsistent and
isn't compatible with employment uses,

1720
01:58:04,000 --> 01:58:09,840
but I think there are a lot of facts in
the record that could lead to you

1721
01:58:07,720 --> 01:58:14,040
concluding it is consistent.
On the side of industrial-related uses,

1722
01:58:12,520 --> 01:58:17,480
um the site's surrounded by light
industrial uses and property owners um

1723
01:58:16,440 --> 01:58:21,080
have given you public comment that
they're concerned about specific

1724
01:58:19,040 --> 01:58:25,800
compatibility of this site to their
light industrial uses. There's no link

1725
01:58:24,040 --> 01:58:28,920
between the anticipated uses and light
industrial employment or light

1726
01:58:27,000 --> 01:58:35,800
industrial uses. So this is not like
medical services for people visiting a

1727
01:58:31,520 --> 01:58:40,680
light industrial user. This is not um
in the example of the PeaceHealth and

1728
01:58:37,640 --> 01:58:44,880
Pace program, this is not an example of
um a program being operated in the

1729
01:58:42,200 --> 01:58:50,160
context of a larger light industrial
use. Um and the anticipated uses aren't

1730
01:58:47,720 --> 01:58:54,600
accessory or complimentary to light
industrial uses. They're not you know,

1731
01:58:52,600 --> 01:59:00,400
being carried out in the same sort of
common development or as part of a

1732
01:58:57,120 --> 01:59:00,400
related light industrial use.

1733
01:59:02,760 --> 01:59:09,600
So, generally
um with these two two interpretations,

1734
01:59:07,480 --> 01:59:16,360
if you find that it's sort of more about
compatibility and overall area

1735
01:59:13,120 --> 01:59:19,440
um then criterion B is um met for campus
industrial designation. Again, you could

1736
01:59:18,080 --> 01:59:24,560
apply different facts on the record to
come to the opposite conclusion, I think

1737
01:59:21,000 --> 01:59:29,840
on this one, but reading where a lot of
the facts are, I think it you know, it's

1738
01:59:26,800 --> 01:59:33,040
likely met. Um but for two, if you took
this approach, I think criterion B is

1739
01:59:31,440 --> 01:59:37,280
not met for campus industrial
designation. I don't think there are the

1740
01:59:34,800 --> 01:59:41,560
set of facts um that you could find to
be more important under the second

1741
01:59:38,960 --> 01:59:45,160
interpretation that also allows you to
approve the annexation. So, I want to be

1742
01:59:43,040 --> 01:59:48,840
clear. I think the first way
you can make a decision

1743
01:59:47,280 --> 01:59:53,960
still either way, you'd have to get into
the facts more and find, you know, way

1744
01:59:50,840 --> 01:59:57,400
compatibility. Um but the second way, I
think it would be clearly not met if you

1745
01:59:55,560 --> 02:00:01,560
prioritize sort of the very specific
wording of that um comp plan designation

1746
01:59:59,520 --> 02:00:05,240
description for each sort of each side
as as it's proposed to develop.

1747
02:00:04,000 --> 02:00:10,120
I can talk through either of those
interpretations more, answer questions.

1748
02:00:07,520 --> 02:00:14,560
I know this is this really is like
very

1749
02:00:11,440 --> 02:00:19,040
nuanced um and specifically land use
decision-making.

1750
02:00:16,640 --> 02:00:23,040
» Do other folks have questions?
So, uh

1751
02:00:20,320 --> 02:00:27,480
I would assume what you're kind of
setting us up is if we wanted to choose

1752
02:00:25,440 --> 02:00:31,800
going down one path or the other, that's
going to help us get to the final

1753
02:00:29,600 --> 02:00:35,480
decision on what we what we're talking
about from these sort of this planning

1754
02:00:34,360 --> 02:00:37,800
consistency question.
>> Correct.

1755
02:00:36,000 --> 02:00:41,120
» Understanding that we probably do have
transportation that is not sort of

1756
02:00:40,040 --> 02:00:43,360
solved at all.
>> Yes.

1757
02:00:41,480 --> 02:00:45,120
» And this question around the annexation
agreement, which we haven't even

1758
02:00:44,600 --> 02:00:47,720
touched.
>> Correct. This is not to say if you take

1759
02:00:46,560 --> 02:00:52,360
number one, you have to approve the
annexation. If you take number two, you

1760
02:00:49,200 --> 02:00:56,040
don't. If you take number one, you still
have a lot of decision-making left to do

1761
02:00:54,640 --> 02:00:58,160
if you take an interpretation like
number one.

1762
02:00:57,240 --> 02:01:03,720
Um
but I think that that could lead you to

1763
02:01:01,080 --> 02:01:08,800
approving the annexation. If you take
the approach of number two, that is more

1764
02:01:06,840 --> 02:01:13,640
spec- that is more tied into the
specific text. Um but I don't think it's

1765
02:01:11,760 --> 02:01:17,560
necessarily any more legally defensible.
I think both approaches to interpreting

1766
02:01:15,400 --> 02:01:21,400
it is allowed, but under number two, I
think the comprehensive plan consistency

1767
02:01:19,520 --> 02:01:25,560
would not be met. And so then I would
recommend that we don't even get into

1768
02:01:22,840 --> 02:01:29,960
discussions of infrastructure and the
annexation agreement because I don't

1769
02:01:26,760 --> 02:01:34,040
think there's any benefit. Um
it's legally valid. You only need one

1770
02:01:31,840 --> 02:01:38,080
reason to deny an application. You have
to show all criteria are met to approve

1771
02:01:35,480 --> 02:01:40,520
it. So it's generally not
um

1772
02:01:39,320 --> 02:01:44,800
I don't know that it's helpful to the
council to spend a lot of time

1773
02:01:42,120 --> 02:01:49,800
deliberating over whether other criteria
are met if you can't get past the comp

1774
02:01:47,640 --> 02:01:53,080
plan and campus industrial designation.
Um but you will have a lot more

1775
02:01:51,200 --> 02:01:57,000
deliberation to do if you if you decide
that this um that it could be a

1776
02:01:55,120 --> 02:01:59,560
compatible employment use and the
area-wide approach.

1777
02:01:58,080 --> 02:02:03,680
» Great. Councilor Stout.
>> Uh just real quick, I'm wondering if

1778
02:02:02,080 --> 02:02:08,520
you can foresee any unintended
consequences of sort of the interpretive

1779
02:02:06,280 --> 02:02:12,600
leap that I see of the compatible
employment uses path of the first path.

1780
02:02:11,440 --> 02:02:15,480
I see it as a bit of an interpretive
leap.

1781
02:02:13,680 --> 02:02:19,600
What I mean, it's been alleged that the
EWEB decision may have had some, you

1782
02:02:17,640 --> 02:02:23,160
know, consequences for how we are to
apply things consistently. So I'm

1783
02:02:21,880 --> 02:02:27,640
curious to you and you don't have to
have an answer right now for this, but

1784
02:02:25,760 --> 02:02:30,400
can we talk through like, okay, what are
some of the unintended consequences that

1785
02:02:28,960 --> 02:02:33,040
are going to happen on a development
level

1786
02:02:31,400 --> 02:02:36,400
um for future applications that come
down the pike?

1787
02:02:34,720 --> 02:02:40,080
» Yeah, that's a great question. So I
think the first answer I would say is

1788
02:02:38,080 --> 02:02:43,480
that the comprehensive plan is typically
not a criteria of approval for a

1789
02:02:41,320 --> 02:02:48,040
development application. So, typically
the comprehensive plan gets applied to a

1790
02:02:45,440 --> 02:02:51,160
very limited scope of decisions that the
council makes. One of those is

1791
02:02:49,840 --> 02:02:55,000
annexation.
Another type of decision is a plan

1792
02:02:52,880 --> 02:02:58,320
amendment and zone change.
Typically in that case you would be

1793
02:02:56,400 --> 02:03:03,200
looking at whether the zoning that's
proposed fits with the description of

1794
02:03:01,120 --> 02:03:07,600
the comprehensive plan designation. And
so on in that way

1795
02:03:05,600 --> 02:03:11,000
somebody may make the argument that a
zone that is not campus industrial still

1796
02:03:09,760 --> 02:03:16,000
fits within the campus industrial
designation based on it being a very

1797
02:03:13,040 --> 02:03:19,760
small site. I think that would be
different enough that the council's

1798
02:03:17,800 --> 02:03:23,480
decision in this annexation would not
bind that other decision.

1799
02:03:22,480 --> 02:03:27,000
Um
I also think that, you know, it would

1800
02:03:25,360 --> 02:03:30,520
apply to other annexations in the campus
industrial district. What is unique

1801
02:03:28,800 --> 02:03:35,560
about this one that I don't see applying
elsewhere is that um

1802
02:03:33,360 --> 02:03:38,520
we would not enter an agreement with the
applicants that said this annexation is

1803
02:03:37,480 --> 02:03:42,360
approved but you have to do a plan
amendment zone change.

1804
02:03:40,040 --> 02:03:45,480
And anyone else wanting to annex in the
campus industrial district for a use

1805
02:03:44,120 --> 02:03:49,080
that isn't allowed in the campus
industrial district

1806
02:03:47,160 --> 02:03:52,280
I think would typically understand,
absent a state superseding law, that

1807
02:03:50,920 --> 02:03:55,400
they would need to do a plan amendment
zone change

1808
02:03:53,760 --> 02:03:58,840
um and would be understanding of an
annexation agreement that contemplated

1809
02:03:57,200 --> 02:04:02,080
that or or that made findings stating
that would be required.

1810
02:04:00,320 --> 02:04:05,280
Um
So, I I don't think either of these

1811
02:04:04,000 --> 02:04:10,200
binds the council in a way that would be
problematic or would prevent or limit

1812
02:04:07,920 --> 02:04:13,800
council's decision making. Um
while I don't in

1813
02:04:12,040 --> 02:04:19,200
I would never in give you an
interpretation as plausible that I would

1814
02:04:17,120 --> 02:04:23,720
expect you to reverse later, but the law
does allow councils, you know, a future

1815
02:04:21,800 --> 02:04:26,680
council that views things differently
can change their mind as long as they

1816
02:04:25,080 --> 02:04:30,080
give notice of a different
interpretation

1817
02:04:28,320 --> 02:04:34,720
um and allow the applicants in that case
to respond to a different interpretation

1818
02:04:31,840 --> 02:04:38,600
and and um give input.
But I I think it's likely that the

1819
02:04:36,080 --> 02:04:42,040
council does will do some work to maybe
look at this in more depth. Um, and

1820
02:04:40,440 --> 02:04:45,320
you'll be continuing to do comprehensive
planning. So, the likelihood that the

1821
02:04:43,240 --> 02:04:49,000
exact facts arise again,
um,

1822
02:04:46,640 --> 02:04:51,920
it seems pretty unlikely.
>> Uh, Councilmember Buck.

1823
02:04:53,920 --> 02:05:00,440
So, I I I think
what I'm struggling to kind of

1824
02:04:58,680 --> 02:05:04,760
really wrap my
my my my head around here is

1825
02:05:03,160 --> 02:05:10,600
when we look at that criteria one,
right? Like that that that first path.

1826
02:05:08,120 --> 02:05:10,600
Um,

1827
02:05:10,680 --> 02:05:16,560
and I kind of step back and I'm like,
yes, but it is we're talking campus

1828
02:05:13,600 --> 02:05:20,240
industrial. So, so path two, I see how
that applies.

1829
02:05:18,280 --> 02:05:24,800
Um,
and and I and I absolutely

1830
02:05:23,240 --> 02:05:29,680
hear you and you're saying, you know,
legally it's defensible and all of tho-

1831
02:05:26,600 --> 02:05:33,240
those kind of things.
I just

1832
02:05:31,200 --> 02:05:37,840
when I look at the criteria here and I
look at the

1833
02:05:34,600 --> 02:05:42,440
this and as much as I want to
see this project move forward,

1834
02:05:40,760 --> 02:05:46,440
I'm just looking at this and seeing like
I don't see I don't see

1835
02:05:44,760 --> 02:05:50,840
I'm struggling with how that applies
that that criteria one. So, maybe if you

1836
02:05:48,000 --> 02:05:56,840
could just restate it again because
I I see it as trying

1837
02:05:53,120 --> 02:06:01,360
to interpret like some piece of this,
but at the but but at the

1838
02:05:58,680 --> 02:06:04,720
the base of this is does it meet campus
industrial?

1839
02:06:03,200 --> 02:06:09,640
Um,
and and the agreement, I mean, there's

1840
02:06:07,320 --> 02:06:14,440
no argument that this is not necessarily
that. So,

1841
02:06:12,280 --> 02:06:19,680
how we can justify using a different
interpretation, I'm

1842
02:06:16,760 --> 02:06:21,920
I'm unsure.
>> So, that

1843
02:06:20,480 --> 02:06:25,400
» and again, I would love to see the
conversation continue. I'd love to see a

1844
02:06:23,520 --> 02:06:29,400
path forward on here, but we have to do
it in a way that's consistent and and

1845
02:06:27,720 --> 02:06:33,000
can be defensible and and repeatable.
Like if somebody else came in

1846
02:06:31,840 --> 02:06:38,320
and this
>> I think it's absolutely defensible for

1847
02:06:34,520 --> 02:06:41,840
the council to say that um the types of
uses that are consistent the types of

1848
02:06:40,560 --> 02:06:45,760
urban uses that are consistent with
campus industrial are light

1849
02:06:44,120 --> 02:06:53,160
industrial firms
that um that are like large-scale ones

1850
02:06:49,520 --> 02:06:58,920
and then small and medium ones
industrial and business parks and then

1851
02:06:55,160 --> 02:07:03,840
limited complimentary uses um on
um that support

1852
02:07:00,600 --> 02:07:07,520
established sort of primary uses. Um I
also think the council could decide we

1853
02:07:05,520 --> 02:07:09,880
want to be broader.
And so I think so I think like that's

1854
02:07:08,800 --> 02:07:15,480
where you're headed. I think that is a
100% um a defensible interpretation of

1855
02:07:13,080 --> 02:07:19,920
that district. If that's how the council
views that district and what this

1856
02:07:17,600 --> 02:07:24,400
language that's on the monitor right now
means to you. It is your plan.

1857
02:07:22,160 --> 02:07:27,480
Um you also could say we think
comprehensive plans are a little higher

1858
02:07:26,040 --> 02:07:31,200
level. We think it ought to be a little
bit more flexible. And so we're going to

1859
02:07:29,840 --> 02:07:36,240
read this language that that's the
primary objective of the designation

1860
02:07:33,840 --> 02:07:41,640
does not mean the exclusive objective or
the objective, you know, not and not

1861
02:07:39,360 --> 02:07:45,680
other employment things. So if you took
that broader view

1862
02:07:43,520 --> 02:07:49,080
um which is not I will not say is
necessarily something the city's done in

1863
02:07:47,120 --> 02:07:53,880
a lot of cases. Um I don't know that
you've taken a broader view of other it

1864
02:07:52,160 --> 02:07:58,440
it's not binding on your decision, but I
don't know that the council has ever

1865
02:07:55,240 --> 02:08:02,360
taken like a much broader view of what
the low-density residential designation

1866
02:08:00,520 --> 02:08:06,360
is for, for example. Um state laws
required us to adopt code amendments

1867
02:08:05,200 --> 02:08:11,000
that do that, but I don't know that the
council has ever made that call itself.

1868
02:08:09,040 --> 02:08:14,560
Um that's probably not
relevant information to the record. So I

1869
02:08:12,920 --> 02:08:19,200
guess I should counsel you to ignore
what I said, but um

1870
02:08:17,000 --> 02:08:21,640
I I think like that's
you can take a broader view even if you

1871
02:08:20,640 --> 02:08:26,200
haven't done that in the past is what
I'm trying to say. Um and so if you're

1872
02:08:23,920 --> 02:08:30,520
taking a broader view, you would say,
"Well, sure. The primary objective is to

1873
02:08:28,400 --> 02:08:35,400
provide for light industrial firms. And
there are about 200 some acres

1874
02:08:33,040 --> 02:08:41,440
designated for light industrial firms
that will remain for those uses. So,

1875
02:08:38,920 --> 02:08:45,320
this one specific site doesn't conflict
with the primary objective of the campus

1876
02:08:43,400 --> 02:08:50,520
industrial designation. So, then the
council looks at, "Well, is it somehow

1877
02:08:47,160 --> 02:08:54,840
going to detract from or take away from
or prevent that primary objective from

1878
02:08:53,400 --> 02:08:58,640
moving forward?" So, then you would look
at compatibility. Um and the

1879
02:08:56,920 --> 02:09:02,160
compatibility factors that this calls
out specifically are noise, pollution,

1880
02:09:00,480 --> 02:09:06,480
and vibration, but you could look at
others. Oh, and and and being in a

1881
02:09:04,000 --> 02:09:12,040
campus-like setting. You could look at
other impacts, as well. So, kind of two

1882
02:09:08,360 --> 02:09:15,000
ways to approach it.
>> All right, Council Weber.

1883
02:09:16,360 --> 02:09:23,040
» I really appreciate that that we want to
find a path forward here,

1884
02:09:21,040 --> 02:09:28,000
but I I'm sitting here and I'm listening
to all of this, and we've we've spent so

1885
02:09:25,560 --> 02:09:30,480
many hours, staff have spent so many
hours going through all of this

1886
02:09:29,240 --> 02:09:35,560
material,
giving us, you know, trying to educate

1887
02:09:32,160 --> 02:09:39,720
us around all of these different things.
And I'm just I'm I'm listening to this

1888
02:09:37,480 --> 02:09:43,120
thinking to myself, yes, this is such an
important thing, and nobody wants to say

1889
02:09:42,000 --> 02:09:47,000
no.
But at the same time, if we have to

1890
02:09:44,840 --> 02:09:51,120
stretch this far
to determine whether this is compatible

1891
02:09:49,000 --> 02:09:56,200
in a in a
in a zone or a

1892
02:09:53,400 --> 02:10:02,440
plan or any of these things that this
council has put in place,

1893
02:09:59,120 --> 02:10:05,600
this just for me is not the this isn't
the decision we should be making today.

1894
02:10:04,120 --> 02:10:09,320
We should be making this around a more
holistic approach.

1895
02:10:07,320 --> 02:10:12,920
Do we want to change the zoning? What do
we want the zoning to be?

1896
02:10:11,360 --> 02:10:18,720
We just keep putting ourselves on this
slippery path of one-off decisions, and

1897
02:10:16,360 --> 02:10:23,560
I I'm really struggling to to to be
supportive of that.

1898
02:10:21,040 --> 02:10:27,280
» Hi, Council Quadros.
>> So, we've talked this through, I think,

1899
02:10:25,440 --> 02:10:30,960
three or four times. We've acknowledged,
um, the difficulty of this conversation,

1900
02:10:29,400 --> 02:10:36,720
and I do really appreciate it,
Christina, that, um, that you've stated

1901
02:10:34,000 --> 02:10:41,440
it as well, um, because of the needs in
this community for a project like this.

1902
02:10:39,120 --> 02:10:47,640
Um, but ultimately, that's not the
question that you're asking us. Um, and

1903
02:10:45,680 --> 02:10:51,760
Councilor Weber, you used the word
stretch, and I have that written like

1904
02:10:49,680 --> 02:10:57,440
four times on my paper.
Um, that this comprehensive plan, um,

1905
02:10:55,360 --> 02:11:02,280
with the designation of the comp- campus
industrial, we're being asked to fit

1906
02:10:59,840 --> 02:11:07,880
this comp plan for annexation purposes,
but path one, I believe, is a stretch.

1907
02:11:05,880 --> 02:11:11,760
Taking it at a higher level, I believe,
is also a stretch. Path two, fairly

1908
02:11:10,520 --> 02:11:17,520
obvious.
Um, it's just not it's not it's not

1909
02:11:15,160 --> 02:11:21,000
fitting, um, in my opinion, for that
consistency that we're looking for.

1910
02:11:25,000 --> 02:11:28,080
» You ready to get in here, Steve?

1911
02:11:28,240 --> 02:11:34,120
» Everything we're talking about, plans
and goals and everything for this area,

1912
02:11:32,400 --> 02:11:38,320
is irrelevant.
We need to annex it to the city first.

1913
02:11:36,440 --> 02:11:42,920
It's going to be annexed eventually.
Let's get that done, and then we go on

1914
02:11:40,000 --> 02:11:42,920
with the rest of the stuff.

1915
02:11:44,200 --> 02:11:51,640
» And I think, um,
between the between the two issues, I

1916
02:11:49,000 --> 02:11:56,240
actually see one as less of a stretch. I
mean, if I kind of play this, uh, North

1917
02:11:53,560 --> 02:11:59,840
Gateway area out, and I kind of imagine
it filled out with the way it's

1918
02:11:57,840 --> 02:12:03,720
developed the last 20 years, I don't
feel like any one of these is inherently

1919
02:12:01,520 --> 02:12:07,600
incompatible, and our goal as a city has
always been specifically to diversify

1920
02:12:05,840 --> 02:12:12,920
our employment up there. Now, that
doesn't get me all the way,

1921
02:12:09,400 --> 02:12:16,720
but I I agree that if we go if we choose
to go down path two, this thing's

1922
02:12:14,560 --> 02:12:21,520
essentially done, right? Because I don't
think it meets the rules for for path

1923
02:12:18,760 --> 02:12:24,520
two, but I do think that
having the conversation at this level

1924
02:12:23,240 --> 02:12:30,000
around that it
there are it is an employment use,

1925
02:12:27,040 --> 02:12:33,760
and it does look and feel and talk like
a like a campus-like environment, and

1926
02:12:32,400 --> 02:12:37,440
it's got some of those some of these
other elements. I think we keep talk I

1927
02:12:35,920 --> 02:12:42,440
think we keep talking about it unless
folks want to try voting on which

1928
02:12:39,560 --> 02:12:45,000
direction they want to go.
>> Councilor Bock.

1929
02:12:47,360 --> 02:12:54,800
So,
is it fair to say the understanding of

1930
02:12:51,200 --> 02:13:00,720
um if if we go down uh
route one, that we're acknowledging like

1931
02:12:58,440 --> 02:13:06,600
this still has some
some real obstacles that that that could

1932
02:13:04,240 --> 02:13:09,240
kill us down the road. We
This is

1933
02:13:07,920 --> 02:13:12,480
we're not we're not saying that we can
get through all of that. We're just

1934
02:13:10,760 --> 02:13:17,320
saying that we want to keep working on
it because we think that, you know, it's

1935
02:13:14,280 --> 02:13:21,520
important and there's value here, but
that there's still some real barriers.

1936
02:13:19,560 --> 02:13:26,960
Is that Is that what I'm
Is that what I'm understanding we could

1937
02:13:23,280 --> 02:13:31,920
be saying with with adopting route one?
>> I think if we chose route one, that does

1938
02:13:29,480 --> 02:13:36,040
not mean this thing that we're not going
to find another issue that essentially

1939
02:13:33,640 --> 02:13:39,720
causes us to deny it, but it would also
mean that effective

1940
02:13:38,680 --> 02:13:42,080
» Keep this conversation going.
>> And in route Yeah, and go ahead,

1941
02:13:41,600 --> 02:13:46,520
Councilor Nu.
>> I want to clarify because

1942
02:13:43,880 --> 02:13:49,720
I want to be really specific. Um there's
if you're talking about a a

1943
02:13:47,600 --> 02:13:52,600
conversation, then that conversation
could be

1944
02:13:51,080 --> 02:13:58,320
siting mental health services in
Springfield, which is not the annexation

1945
02:13:55,200 --> 02:14:01,440
decision. Um and so when and I've heard
the council use that like keep the

1946
02:13:59,880 --> 02:14:06,120
conversation or keep this issue moving
forward as like a broader discussion

1947
02:14:03,240 --> 02:14:12,280
around siting a a facility like this
versus applying the annexation criteria

1948
02:14:09,320 --> 02:14:15,960
to the application and how many more
meetings the council continues to

1949
02:14:13,800 --> 02:14:22,320
deliberate on the specific annexation
criteria. So, um the what I will say is

1950
02:14:19,920 --> 02:14:28,720
that the city's annexation decision does
not stop any public

1951
02:14:24,960 --> 02:14:33,760
discussion or city efforts to you know,
help identify land or like any

1952
02:14:30,280 --> 02:14:37,120
discussion on this facility. Um and and
this need for this kind of service in

1953
02:14:35,760 --> 02:14:41,360
Springfield. It does not stop
development from happening in the future

1954
02:14:39,360 --> 02:14:45,960
on this land. It simply denies the
application based on the

1955
02:14:43,440 --> 02:14:50,200
the annexation based on the application
you have in front of you. There could be

1956
02:14:48,080 --> 02:14:53,840
a different application. There could be
a different set of facts. There could be

1957
02:14:51,560 --> 02:14:58,280
different plan designation
um or an agreement

1958
02:14:56,120 --> 02:15:02,000
you know, to seek a plan you know, there
could be some other set of facts in a

1959
02:14:59,800 --> 02:15:05,720
different application that the council
might reach a different decision. So, I

1960
02:15:03,880 --> 02:15:08,640
I'm just wanting to be really clear when
you talk What do you What do you mean

1961
02:15:06,960 --> 02:15:11,680
when you talk about the conversation
moving forward?

1962
02:15:09,680 --> 02:15:15,440
» So, to be clear, I mean talking about
this piece of property applying the

1963
02:15:13,040 --> 02:15:20,160
annexation criteria, not necessarily the
broader the broader policy issue around

1964
02:15:18,200 --> 02:15:22,920
around mental health.
Go ahead, Council.

1965
02:15:20,960 --> 02:15:25,880
» Agreed. That's what I'm talking about as
well.

1966
02:15:23,960 --> 02:15:28,480
Acknowledging that we could we could
apply the annexation

1967
02:15:27,800 --> 02:15:33,080
um
criteria and do that and as we after

1968
02:15:31,520 --> 02:15:37,400
that happens, there could be a whole lot
of other things. We might not get to

1969
02:15:34,360 --> 02:15:41,080
agreement about other pieces of it.
>> All right.

1970
02:15:39,480 --> 02:15:44,720
All right. So, I think we got to decide
how we want to move forward here. Do we

1971
02:15:42,560 --> 02:15:49,400
want to just take a a brief straw poll
about which one of these versions you

1972
02:15:46,920 --> 02:15:52,640
see it as? Um looking at Christina to
make sure that

1973
02:15:50,880 --> 02:15:56,040
» You can certainly do this. The record
and the hearing are closed. There's no

1974
02:15:54,200 --> 02:16:00,600
issue of bias. You are allowed to start
coming to a decision. Um I will say your

1975
02:15:58,200 --> 02:16:03,840
straw poll on how you would interpret
the comp plan does not bind you in any

1976
02:16:02,280 --> 02:16:07,560
way to any future vote. It's just to
sort of help you narrow down where

1977
02:16:05,920 --> 02:16:12,400
you're at, where you might have a
majority for a vote um in the future.

1978
02:16:10,200 --> 02:16:16,000
» Okay, so do do folks
want to talk about it more, have more

1979
02:16:13,720 --> 02:16:18,880
questions, or just take an initial cuz
we've got we still have other items to

1980
02:16:17,760 --> 02:16:22,280
get to.
Um

1981
02:16:19,800 --> 02:16:25,440
so want to take an initial kind of count
about kind of what they're thinking.

1982
02:16:24,920 --> 02:16:27,520
» Um
>> Go ahead.

1983
02:16:25,760 --> 02:16:31,400
» Mr. Mayor, this is this is one of the
first opportunities where we've actually

1984
02:16:29,120 --> 02:16:36,000
had to speak about this topic that we've
heard quite a bit about at time.

1985
02:16:33,960 --> 02:16:40,080
I would actually be in favor of and I
know you love hearing this, of moving

1986
02:16:37,800 --> 02:16:44,040
this to a following meeting so that we
have an opportunity to digest the final

1987
02:16:42,040 --> 02:16:47,120
information that's presented to us here.
And if that's not okay, I understand

1988
02:16:45,559 --> 02:16:50,519
that, but I'm just saying there's a
tremendous amount riding on this. I'd

1989
02:16:48,920 --> 02:16:52,800
like to be able to
think through it and take a little bit

1990
02:16:52,000 --> 02:16:56,040
more time with it.
>> I I think that is a I think that is a

1991
02:16:54,280 --> 02:17:00,240
reasonable I think that is a reasonable
approach too. If people aren't ready to

1992
02:16:57,480 --> 02:17:03,240
start making some decisions to to take a
little bit more time to think about it.

1993
02:17:02,000 --> 02:17:05,559
I'm going to look over to this side and
see what

1994
02:17:10,639 --> 02:17:17,160
All right, you guys are going to have to
jump in here because no matter what we

1995
02:17:15,080 --> 02:17:19,920
our obligation is to keep moving this
moving this thing forward, but we get to

1996
02:17:18,760 --> 02:17:23,519
move it forward at the pace that we
want. If you want more time, we can take

1997
02:17:21,960 --> 02:17:27,080
some more time cuz I know it's on the
agenda for next week to deliberate more

1998
02:17:26,040 --> 02:17:30,440
further.
>> Yeah, my intent was to deliberate on the

1999
02:17:29,040 --> 02:17:34,280
infrastructure issues that the council
gave that direction. Um I'm not sure

2000
02:17:32,599 --> 02:17:38,200
what you would like me to do if you're
still not resolved on this matter

2001
02:17:36,280 --> 02:17:41,200
because that I I don't know how to
prepare for that work session without

2002
02:17:39,480 --> 02:17:44,000
direction on the
sort of

2003
02:17:42,200 --> 02:17:47,840
condition precedent.
>> Okay, so let's do this. Hang on to that

2004
02:17:46,240 --> 02:17:51,800
thought. Let's see where everybody if
people are ready to either start

2005
02:17:49,760 --> 02:17:55,120
deciding uh
kind of path one or path two or if they

2006
02:17:54,040 --> 02:17:57,679
want a little bit more time to think
about it.

2007
02:17:57,880 --> 02:18:05,559
You want a little bit more time? Council
Quadros, are you are you ready to kind

2008
02:18:01,920 --> 02:18:05,559
of pick a path or do you want more time?

2009
02:18:06,960 --> 02:18:13,840
» I think that I'm ready to pick a path.
>> Okay. So, why don't why don't we try why

2010
02:18:12,280 --> 02:18:17,280
don't we try that? So, Councilwoman
Quadros, what are you thinking about a

2011
02:18:14,840 --> 02:18:17,280
path?

2012
02:18:17,400 --> 02:18:24,880
» I am more landing in the path two at
this point.

2013
02:18:22,880 --> 02:18:27,800
» All right. We'll we'll let Councilman
Stout have a little bit more time

2014
02:18:26,200 --> 02:18:30,200
because he asked for it. Councilman
Webber?

2015
02:18:30,800 --> 02:18:34,599
» I'm in neither path.

2016
02:18:37,559 --> 02:18:40,719
» Okay. So,
>> Okay.

2017
02:18:39,240 --> 02:18:44,559
» You have to interpret your comp plan in
order to make a decision. And so, is

2018
02:18:42,519 --> 02:18:48,800
there a different interpretation? So, to
be clear comp the the

2019
02:18:47,200 --> 02:18:52,559
There are other interpretations, but my
recommendation is that these are the two

2020
02:18:50,679 --> 02:18:57,120
that are
obvious to me. Um interpretation one is

2021
02:18:54,840 --> 02:19:01,160
broader, may allow the annexation.
Interpretation two does not allow the

2022
02:18:59,000 --> 02:19:07,160
annexation.
>> So, let me propose an alternative here.

2023
02:19:05,760 --> 02:19:12,599
Do folks want to go to the next week
work session and work the other issues

2024
02:19:09,040 --> 02:19:12,599
and then come back to this one?

2025
02:19:13,200 --> 02:19:18,840
Oh, we can do whatever we want here.
Well, I shouldn't say that. We got to we

2026
02:19:17,240 --> 02:19:22,960
got to You guys know.
>> I need to have a framework under which

2027
02:19:21,360 --> 02:19:26,040
the council wants me to discuss
infrastructure issues, which is going to

2028
02:19:24,400 --> 02:19:30,440
depend on
what do you see this comprehensive plan

2029
02:19:27,920 --> 02:19:33,800
policy meaning meaning? Um And so, I'm
not sure how to present meaningful

2030
02:19:32,000 --> 02:19:37,679
deliberations to you and relevant
information without one of two

2031
02:19:36,920 --> 02:19:40,960
approaches.
>> Okay. So, Councilman

2032
02:19:38,840 --> 02:19:45,480
» I I got it. Yes. Thank you for for
adding additional clarification for me.

2033
02:19:43,400 --> 02:19:49,560
Um path two.
>> Okay. Councilwoman Rodli?

2034
02:19:47,800 --> 02:19:52,240
» Path one.
>> Councilman Buck?

2035
02:19:54,360 --> 02:19:56,400
» I

2036
02:19:56,760 --> 02:20:02,960
path
path two. I mean, I could get to path

2037
02:19:59,640 --> 02:20:06,000
one, but I'm I'm path two right now.
>> Okay.

2038
02:20:04,560 --> 02:20:09,080
Councilor Moe?
>> Well, I'm path one, but again,

2039
02:20:07,120 --> 02:20:11,640
annexation is a big bright criteria
right now.

2040
02:20:11,880 --> 02:20:17,240
» Path two.
So, that Okay. So, that would

2041
02:20:15,000 --> 02:20:21,200
effectively direct you to deny it. Uh
for the record, I would be path one. I

2042
02:20:18,760 --> 02:20:25,360
think talking about this thing is and
continuing to work the other issues, but

2043
02:20:22,800 --> 02:20:28,080
if we go down path two, then then we
should just make a motion now to deny

2044
02:20:26,960 --> 02:20:31,680
it.
>> I I don't believe you need to make a

2045
02:20:29,840 --> 02:20:35,320
motion now. One option is the council
could bring it back with an order to

2046
02:20:33,080 --> 02:20:39,600
deny based on an interpretation under
path two, um for review at your next

2047
02:20:37,920 --> 02:20:45,440
regular meeting on October 5th. You
could use the work session to review

2048
02:20:41,160 --> 02:20:50,120
that staff report um and reasoning um an
order in more detail at a work session.

2049
02:20:48,120 --> 02:20:53,840
Um
Those are both options. Um I I don't

2050
02:20:52,680 --> 02:20:57,880
recommend the council needs to vote
tonight unless the majority of the

2051
02:20:56,120 --> 02:21:01,880
council was feeling like the order in
the packet with the findings there were

2052
02:21:00,560 --> 02:21:04,400
they were very confident about that
being the right set of findings for an

2053
02:21:03,240 --> 02:21:07,880
order to deny based on this
interpretation.

2054
02:21:05,160 --> 02:21:11,640
» No, let's let's This is a big enough and
complicated enough thing that us

2055
02:21:09,840 --> 02:21:15,960
continuing to work the order a little
bit more a little bit further is going

2056
02:21:14,200 --> 02:21:17,240
to you know, would probably help
everybody.

2057
02:21:16,600 --> 02:21:20,800
» Okay.
>> Um so, I think we let's bring it back

2058
02:21:19,120 --> 02:21:22,440
next week when we have the work session.
>> Okay.

2059
02:21:21,080 --> 02:21:24,120
» And then we can work that and then we
can work that piece.

2060
02:21:23,560 --> 02:21:29,240
» Okay.
>> Um and then and then I get and then can

2061
02:21:27,520 --> 02:21:33,000
you give us other options for what what
might happen next, right? Because we're

2062
02:21:31,280 --> 02:21:37,600
denying this application a different set
of facts may change it.

2063
02:21:35,400 --> 02:21:42,320
» Correct. Um I think that, you know, I
one thing I think I want to

2064
02:21:40,040 --> 02:21:46,720
caution the council on is that I'm
expecting you'll receive new ex parte

2065
02:21:44,440 --> 02:21:54,400
contacts um as a result of the meeting
tonight. And so, um it is not

2066
02:21:51,520 --> 02:21:57,160
So, if you want to factor in new
information you learn that's outside the

2067
02:21:55,680 --> 02:22:01,080
record into your decision-making, you
have to reopen the record in hearing. Um

2068
02:21:59,360 --> 02:22:06,840
and the council can decide to do that at
a later regular session if you get ex

2069
02:22:04,440 --> 02:22:09,600
parte contacts and it or things
submitted into the record that are too

2070
02:22:08,360 --> 02:22:12,720
late, which is what, you know, they
might not be they might be in business

2071
02:22:11,480 --> 02:22:15,520
from the audience at a future regular
session, for example.

2072
02:22:14,360 --> 02:22:19,240
Um
so you'll have that option. I would

2073
02:22:16,840 --> 02:22:23,120
still caution you to respond that you
can't discuss it. Um that it's still an

2074
02:22:21,560 --> 02:22:27,560
ongoing process in the same way that I
believe councilors have been responding.

2075
02:22:25,280 --> 02:22:30,400
Um and I
um

2076
02:22:28,560 --> 02:22:34,280
you know, provide any communications you
do receive to planning staff um and to

2077
02:22:33,160 --> 02:22:37,000
city manager's office and city
attorney's office so that we can keep

2078
02:22:35,680 --> 02:22:39,440
track of things
um and the council can make decisions in

2079
02:22:38,200 --> 02:22:44,520
the future on if you want to reopen the
record um for additional information.

2080
02:22:41,760 --> 02:22:49,160
You can also just vote to um be clear
that you're excluding later submitted

2081
02:22:46,960 --> 02:22:51,760
information into the record, later
submitted information from your

2082
02:22:50,360 --> 02:22:55,480
consideration. So, you don't have to
consider things that people tell you um

2083
02:22:54,360 --> 02:22:57,480
going forward. And I think no matter
what direction I got from council

2084
02:22:56,600 --> 02:23:02,760
tonight, you were going to hear from
people after this meeting um probably

2085
02:23:00,040 --> 02:23:06,880
regardless. So, that's just some some
caution. And um yes, I can have um

2086
02:23:05,320 --> 02:23:08,600
options available for you or just
information to consider at the work

2087
02:23:08,160 --> 02:23:10,480
session.
>> Well, and I

2088
02:23:09,120 --> 02:23:13,280
» to be a tight turnaround, so I probably
won't have a lot there, but we can

2089
02:23:12,160 --> 02:23:16,280
definitely discuss.
>> Well, if we need more time, we got to

2090
02:23:14,800 --> 02:23:19,640
take more you know, we we got to take
more time, so that gives us

2091
02:23:17,440 --> 02:23:23,280
» a decision in the work session anyway,
so it'll be time for Yeah.

2092
02:23:21,360 --> 02:23:26,680
» And I think the other question is what
we just did what we just talked through

2093
02:23:24,760 --> 02:23:30,600
right now is non-binding, right?
>> Correct. It is absolutely non-binding.

2094
02:23:28,520 --> 02:23:34,000
It's just It's just a way for you to
gauge where you're at currently so that

2095
02:23:32,360 --> 02:23:39,160
we can figure out where it's most
beneficial to council to spend more time

2096
02:23:36,240 --> 02:23:42,120
um discussing and and what document
staff should bring forward for further

2097
02:23:40,360 --> 02:23:46,320
consideration.
>> Okay. Are there any other questions?

2098
02:23:44,640 --> 02:23:49,000
All right. Thank you, Christina.
Next item, please.

2099
02:23:50,440 --> 02:23:56,800
» Uh the next item is under resolutions.
This is a resolution of necessity of

2100
02:23:54,040 --> 02:24:04,360
walking and biking network improvements,
project number P21196.

2101
02:24:00,080 --> 02:24:04,360
And Jeremy Shear is here for this item.

2102
02:24:14,600 --> 02:24:22,440
» Good evening, Mayor, counselors.
Um this subject is uh no less weightier

2103
02:24:20,480 --> 02:24:27,080
than the last, but hopefully less
complicated.

2104
02:24:24,520 --> 02:24:31,840
Um City of Springfield um approved
walking and biking,

2105
02:24:29,240 --> 02:24:35,080
which is a project intended to improve
pedestrian and bicycle

2106
02:24:34,360 --> 02:24:37,760
uh
um

2107
02:24:35,960 --> 02:24:44,920
connectivity.
This project is our first federal aid

2108
02:24:40,640 --> 02:24:49,720
project as a certified city, federal
certified city.

2109
02:24:46,280 --> 02:24:49,720
So, this is our test.

2110
02:24:51,080 --> 02:24:58,480
The city must acquire various permanent
and temporary

2111
02:24:55,560 --> 02:25:05,240
uh construction easements
and uh utility easements from affected

2112
02:25:01,280 --> 02:25:09,680
properties along the project corridors.
Adoption

2113
02:25:06,720 --> 02:25:13,320
authorizes the city to negotiate with
affected property owners, and if

2114
02:25:11,720 --> 02:25:18,880
necessary,
proceed with condemnation

2115
02:25:15,600 --> 02:25:22,840
proceedings pursuant Oregon law.
The right-of-way acquisition phase is a

2116
02:25:20,720 --> 02:25:26,840
critical path
for a successful project.

2117
02:25:25,240 --> 02:25:30,880
And it will help maintain the project
schedule and allow

2118
02:25:28,720 --> 02:25:34,360
construction activities to proceed in a
timely manner.

2119
02:25:32,920 --> 02:25:39,720
And that's all I have. I'll take any
questions.

2120
02:25:36,520 --> 02:25:39,720
» Does anybody have questions?

2121
02:25:40,720 --> 02:25:44,120
All right. I think we're ready for a
motion.

2122
02:25:42,360 --> 02:25:48,800
» I do. What what?
>> The term actually I power of eminent

2123
02:25:46,200 --> 02:25:52,880
domain I don't see that very often. I
see that hidden back in some documents,

2124
02:25:51,280 --> 02:25:56,760
but this is very prominent here. How
does that apply?

2125
02:25:54,320 --> 02:26:03,760
» The power of eminent domain
it is the power that the Yeah, well,

2126
02:25:59,600 --> 02:26:10,080
it's the powers that you have um to
uh enter into um con- condemnation

2127
02:26:07,440 --> 02:26:15,400
proceedings. And and really
condemnation is a process. So, it begins

2128
02:26:13,600 --> 02:26:19,760
through negotiations and so on and so
forth.

2129
02:26:16,640 --> 02:26:25,920
Uh and that is your your power of
eminent domain is

2130
02:26:22,080 --> 02:26:30,400
is the process of condemnation.
If that kind of makes sense, I'm not

2131
02:26:27,320 --> 02:26:30,400
sure if it does, but

2132
02:26:36,080 --> 02:26:40,400
I'm I'm sorry. I can't
>> Are there particular properties that are

2133
02:26:38,720 --> 02:26:47,800
impacted right now?
>> So, there there's um essentially there's

2134
02:26:44,560 --> 02:26:51,920
uh five properties in this packet here.
Um one of them happens to be Odot

2135
02:26:49,720 --> 02:26:56,440
property, which they're going to uh
relinquish to us. So, we're really not

2136
02:26:54,840 --> 02:26:59,360
going to condemn on them.
>> I think we should.

2137
02:26:57,200 --> 02:27:05,560
» Okay. Um
and then the other is um McKenzie

2138
02:27:02,240 --> 02:27:09,040
Willamette, and they've already agreed,
you know,

2139
02:27:06,800 --> 02:27:14,920
that they they want to um play. So, the
rest of them are just pri- private um

2140
02:27:11,960 --> 02:27:18,720
» Yeah, I I I imagine most people will do
go through that, but I just haven't seen

2141
02:27:16,680 --> 02:27:22,440
it that prominent before.
>> Yeah, the the these are these would be

2142
02:27:20,720 --> 02:27:29,040
considered strip takings. They're very
minimal. Um so, uh and um

2143
02:27:27,280 --> 02:27:32,680
mostly um
temporary construction easements to

2144
02:27:30,440 --> 02:27:37,440
allow us to do the work. So, they're
they're not uh we're not taking up a lot

2145
02:27:35,600 --> 02:27:39,720
of property, let's just say.
>> Yeah. Or property rights.

2146
02:27:39,000 --> 02:27:44,040
» Thank you very much.
>> Councilor Quadros.

2147
02:27:42,120 --> 02:27:47,680
» If you were to incite the eminent
domain, uh would that come before us

2148
02:27:46,120 --> 02:27:52,320
again?
>> Um I don't think it would be necessary,

2149
02:27:50,960 --> 02:27:57,720
but I think we would do it as a
courtesy. You can talk to our council,

2150
02:27:54,640 --> 02:28:03,120
but this this this would I'm let me just
state this. Um that is the last resort.

2151
02:28:01,160 --> 02:28:06,040
So, there's other processes we can go
through arbitration. There's a lot of

2152
02:28:05,120 --> 02:28:10,440
other
things that we can do through negotiate

2153
02:28:08,160 --> 02:28:17,680
to negotiation process before it even
gets there. So, um if we did go had to

2154
02:28:15,280 --> 02:28:22,920
go to condemnation and it was something
that was um that we well, I think we

2155
02:28:21,040 --> 02:28:27,760
would we would just come. I would make
that recommendation. We'd come and let

2156
02:28:24,600 --> 02:28:34,000
you know, but this order, the way I
understand it, already gives us the

2157
02:28:30,240 --> 02:28:39,400
authority to to initiate the um
condemnation proceedings.

2158
02:28:36,840 --> 02:28:45,640
» Uh Councilor Bucknum.
>> It it just to clarify, I think this is

2159
02:28:41,360 --> 02:28:45,640
what you just said, but

2160
02:28:46,440 --> 02:28:52,240
the the approach forward is to engage
with property owners, have

2161
02:28:50,720 --> 02:28:58,080
conversations,
see if we can't come to some sort of

2162
02:28:55,080 --> 02:29:02,480
arrangement so that it really has
minimal to no impact on their property,

2163
02:29:00,280 --> 02:29:08,080
the property value, all of those things,
and then we're doing all of all of what

2164
02:29:05,680 --> 02:29:13,520
can be done to ensure that we're
maintaining, you know, private the

2165
02:29:10,680 --> 02:29:17,280
integrity of the private property. So,
so the the home owners are going to or

2166
02:29:15,720 --> 02:29:21,160
property owners or whoever it is is
going to be able to have conversations

2167
02:29:20,040 --> 02:29:28,640
around, okay, these would be my
concerns, how can we work through that?

2168
02:29:23,560 --> 02:29:33,360
So, the with consideration to um privacy
and safety and property values and all

2169
02:29:31,360 --> 02:29:38,720
that, like that's all baked into the
process that we try to get to an

2170
02:29:35,240 --> 02:29:44,680
agreement um long before we start
talking about eminent domain.

2171
02:29:41,240 --> 02:29:48,680
» That That That's correct. So,
uh the the the the law says the greatest

2172
02:29:47,360 --> 02:29:54,560
public good for the least private
injury. So, when the engineers are

2173
02:29:51,240 --> 02:29:58,480
designing this, they're considering
what's the least amount of impact for

2174
02:29:56,480 --> 02:30:06,640
the greatest public good.
And so, part of what uh we do prior to

2175
02:30:03,240 --> 02:30:12,480
negotiations is right away is involved
with this process to make sure that uh

2176
02:30:09,840 --> 02:30:18,040
the impacts are minimized as much as
possible. And a lot of these things have

2177
02:30:14,840 --> 02:30:23,680
to do with uh design and and engineering
and what's what needs to happen in order

2178
02:30:20,440 --> 02:30:27,600
for the project to be successful. So, we
have our input and usually they'll give

2179
02:30:26,000 --> 02:30:31,080
it to me and I'll say, "Okay, do we
really need that much? Can we do a

2180
02:30:29,040 --> 02:30:37,000
little bit more?" So, there's We We have
There's some internal negotiations that

2181
02:30:33,040 --> 02:30:41,600
occur as well through the process.
>> Okay.

2182
02:30:38,680 --> 02:30:41,600
I think we're ready for a motion.

2183
02:30:42,240 --> 02:30:48,240
» I move to adopt a resolution exercising
the power of eminent domain and

2184
02:30:46,120 --> 02:30:54,960
authorizing a resolution
pursuant to ORS 223.005,

2185
02:30:52,040 --> 02:30:58,840
ORS 223.105,
and ORS 35.600-625

2186
02:30:59,760 --> 02:31:07,600
concerning acquisition of right-of-way
necessary for walking and biking network

2187
02:31:03,520 --> 02:31:11,760
improvements, Project P21196.
>> And I will second that.

2188
02:31:09,760 --> 02:31:14,280
» Any other discussion to the motion? All
right, Neil, call the vote, please.

2189
02:31:12,960 --> 02:31:16,000
» Councilor Weber.
>> Yes.

2190
02:31:14,720 --> 02:31:17,440
» Councilor Moe.
>> Yes.

2191
02:31:16,440 --> 02:31:19,040
» Councilor Rodley.
>> Yes.

2192
02:31:17,840 --> 02:31:21,520
» Councilor Quadros.
>> Yes.

2193
02:31:19,520 --> 02:31:23,040
» Councilor Buck.
>> Yes.

2194
02:31:22,000 --> 02:31:25,600
» And Councilor Stout.
>> Yes, thank you.

2195
02:31:23,640 --> 02:31:28,080
» Motion passes six yeses, zero noes.
Thank you, Jeremy.

2196
02:31:27,320 --> 02:31:32,720
Next item, please.
>> Any business from the city council?

2197
02:31:30,880 --> 02:31:36,160
» Councilor Stout. I just want to bring up
with my fellow councilors. I know that

2198
02:31:34,240 --> 02:31:40,960
our police chief does a great job
looking at e-bikes and also the speed

2199
02:31:38,960 --> 02:31:45,120
and where they are operating.
Um but I I just want us all to be aware

2200
02:31:43,280 --> 02:31:50,840
about how it is a bit more pernicious
than we might think. And that it is is

2201
02:31:48,760 --> 02:31:54,200
causing upsets to many of our neighbors,
many of our friends, and a lot of people

2202
02:31:52,120 --> 02:31:59,560
have very justly raised safety concerns
about e-bikes. So, I just want us as a

2203
02:31:56,800 --> 02:32:03,440
council to do what we can in small ways
and certainly in coordination with our

2204
02:32:01,640 --> 02:32:09,560
excellent police force,
uh consider ways we might um if

2205
02:32:05,760 --> 02:32:14,800
strengthen our policy on e-bikes uh even
to make it more restrictive than uh the

2206
02:32:11,920 --> 02:32:18,360
Oregon state law might have on there. Um
and I'm doing I want to make that

2207
02:32:16,440 --> 02:32:23,040
suggestion primarily out of the respect
for public safety and also the overall

2208
02:32:21,160 --> 02:32:27,560
livability of our neighborhoods.
Countless bikers telling me how they are

2209
02:32:25,840 --> 02:32:31,440
very concerned about getting run off the
road uh by e-bikes or just regular uh

2210
02:32:30,440 --> 02:32:36,440
folks. So, I just think it's an
important conversation to have

2211
02:32:33,840 --> 02:32:40,600
um even more publicly
um even though I know we certainly have

2212
02:32:38,400 --> 02:32:44,400
the state laws that apply um but I think
there's more to say on that. Thank you.

2213
02:32:44,880 --> 02:32:49,600
Councilor Buck.
>> Uh I just want to comment. I I

2214
02:32:48,080 --> 02:32:54,160
appreciate you bringing this up uh
Councilor Stout and um one of the things

2215
02:32:52,160 --> 02:32:56,920
that I appreciate about the experience
that

2216
02:32:55,160 --> 02:33:01,240
that we have on our council is is
Councilor Quintero actually has

2217
02:32:58,880 --> 02:33:04,720
quite a bit of history with this um
and

2218
02:33:02,960 --> 02:33:10,760
and has watched other communities go
through exactly what we're going through

2219
02:33:07,280 --> 02:33:15,280
with e-bikes specifically and how um
those and and

2220
02:33:13,000 --> 02:33:20,280
it's kind of the routes around safety
and all of those things kind of

2221
02:33:18,400 --> 02:33:23,040
kind of impact each other. So, I'm
really excited to have those

2222
02:33:21,200 --> 02:33:27,480
conversations. I wholeheartedly with
you. I'm really excited that we have the

2223
02:33:25,000 --> 02:33:31,600
experience and
an expertise on on Council to to speak

2224
02:33:30,360 --> 02:33:34,520
to
what other communities

2225
02:33:33,800 --> 02:33:39,520
um
comparable in Oregon comparable to ours

2226
02:33:37,560 --> 02:33:43,320
um have experienced and gone through
with this particular subject.

2227
02:33:43,800 --> 02:33:49,000
» All right, thank you. Anybody else?
Council Quadrus.

2228
02:33:47,240 --> 02:33:52,640
» Does anyone have any more conversation
about e-bikes or

2229
02:33:50,440 --> 02:33:56,280
a different topic or two?
>> Go ahead.

2230
02:33:53,120 --> 02:34:00,520
» Okay. So, um I'd like to talk library
for a moment um and I'm interested in

2231
02:33:58,520 --> 02:34:04,200
circling back on the library discussion
from our budget process.

2232
02:34:02,720 --> 02:34:08,280
Um during those conversations, there
were several clear questions that were

2233
02:34:06,240 --> 02:34:12,840
raised about library services,
priorities, and how we make the best use

2234
02:34:10,600 --> 02:34:16,800
of the resources that we had of have
available. And I don't think we

2235
02:34:15,000 --> 02:34:21,240
necessarily have
uh those answers

2236
02:34:18,520 --> 02:34:24,880
uh from those questions yet. Um I also
know there was a survey conducted this

2237
02:34:22,840 --> 02:34:28,440
summer that specifically sought input
from library users.

2238
02:34:27,000 --> 02:34:33,080
Um I'd like to understand what we
learned from that survey, how that

2239
02:34:30,880 --> 02:34:38,240
information is being evaluated alongside
the questions that Council raised during

2240
02:34:35,240 --> 02:34:41,760
the budget process, and what next steps
staff are considering.

2241
02:34:40,000 --> 02:34:45,040
Um I'd like to make sure that we can get
some follow-up on the questions that

2242
02:34:43,440 --> 02:34:50,560
were left outstanding and understand
what we can expect will come back to

2243
02:34:47,440 --> 02:34:50,560
Council this fall.

2244
02:34:53,200 --> 02:35:00,480
» Uh thank you uh Council Quadrus.
Next week we have uh our library

2245
02:34:59,160 --> 02:35:06,200
director scheduled to give a
presentation to Council. And um part of

2246
02:35:03,760 --> 02:35:09,240
that would um I've she and I have talked
about this presentation because the

2247
02:35:07,760 --> 02:35:14,400
library does do a lot of things in the
community and there's a lot to report

2248
02:35:11,080 --> 02:35:20,040
on. So, you know, in the um interest of
prior excuse me, prioritizing time, Um I

2249
02:35:18,160 --> 02:35:23,520
requested that uh
we first address that some of the

2250
02:35:21,760 --> 02:35:30,240
questions that may still be outstanding
from the budget process and then also um

2251
02:35:26,200 --> 02:35:35,400
talk about the survey and um what some
of the results were and it was um not

2252
02:35:33,320 --> 02:35:40,200
necessarily a conventional survey in the
scientific sense, but but rather more of

2253
02:35:37,760 --> 02:35:45,600
a customer satisfaction and awareness
type of survey. And um you know, talking

2254
02:35:43,320 --> 02:35:50,920
about both the library and uh to a
lesser extent the museum. So, um more to

2255
02:35:48,360 --> 02:35:57,080
come on that and I I I think we should
have some continued discussions as we um

2256
02:35:53,680 --> 02:35:57,080
move through the year. Thank you.

2257
02:35:58,280 --> 02:36:05,280
» Go ahead. I think you had one more.
>> Perfect. Thank you. I do want that back

2258
02:36:01,920 --> 02:36:10,760
um in front of us. Um and then uh after
a crash at 35th and Oregon Streets in

2259
02:36:08,000 --> 02:36:15,320
Ward 4 this summer, uh staff, council,
and the mayor spent time in conversation

2260
02:36:12,480 --> 02:36:19,280
with neighbors about their concerns. And
I'd also like to get um to hear from

2261
02:36:17,480 --> 02:36:23,040
staff about the outcome of that work and
whether there are any further

2262
02:36:20,760 --> 02:36:25,760
considerations or next steps that we're
going to make.

2263
02:36:26,760 --> 02:36:33,720
» Councilor again, I think I'm I would
uh say that first of all, I appreciate

2264
02:36:31,480 --> 02:36:37,600
the rapid response of yourself and other
members of the council,

2265
02:36:35,480 --> 02:36:42,280
um our public works crew, and our law
enforcement community. Um I'm going to

2266
02:36:40,400 --> 02:36:47,280
have Neil Andadi give a little bit more
specificity. There were some things that

2267
02:36:43,840 --> 02:36:51,760
we did right away to uh address this and
then uh there are some some things that

2268
02:36:49,160 --> 02:36:55,480
were still in in the pipe. So, Neil.
>> Yeah, thank you, Nancy, and thank you,

2269
02:36:53,320 --> 02:37:01,840
Councilor, for the question and for your
time out there that evening. So, we, as

2270
02:36:58,640 --> 02:37:05,920
you remember, put together a list of
interested parties that were at that

2271
02:37:03,480 --> 02:37:09,960
meeting and two in particular uh
residents in a leadership role to help

2272
02:37:08,480 --> 02:37:15,320
us work through the problems and then
report back to the community.

2273
02:37:12,040 --> 02:37:21,680
Uh, initially we went out the next that
very week and re installed the kind of

2274
02:37:19,480 --> 02:37:27,360
stop bars they're called. It's the thick
white line that's in the street. And

2275
02:37:23,760 --> 02:37:31,840
also there was a stop stencil in that
street that had worn out. So we ordered

2276
02:37:29,920 --> 02:37:37,360
those stencils and those will go back
in. We also trimmed trees around the

2277
02:37:34,840 --> 02:37:42,160
stop sign to give better clearance.
Um, and over the last I think week and a

2278
02:37:39,800 --> 02:37:46,160
half we've had cameras in the area that
are counting traffic and looking at

2279
02:37:43,640 --> 02:37:50,160
speeds and really getting that data so
we can answer the questions properly.

2280
02:37:48,640 --> 02:37:54,760
Um, and continued discussions are
happening with our staff and the two

2281
02:37:53,200 --> 02:37:59,360
neighbors who've
um, been assigned to keep in touch with

2282
02:37:57,120 --> 02:38:03,440
us. So that's ongoing. Once we have that
data put together, we'll have a more

2283
02:38:01,240 --> 02:38:06,480
broad broader picture of what can be
done in that area.

2284
02:38:06,880 --> 02:38:10,800
» Thank you. That's great.
I appreciate that.

2285
02:38:09,040 --> 02:38:14,760
» And one note, we also forwarded the
concerns related to Willamette Lane to

2286
02:38:13,360 --> 02:38:17,120
Willamette Lane that came out of that
meeting.

2287
02:38:17,960 --> 02:38:22,440
» Thank you. Anybody else?
Next item, please.

2288
02:38:21,160 --> 02:38:28,600
» Uh, next item under business from the
city manager is the Springfield Police

2289
02:38:24,600 --> 02:38:35,000
Association or SPA 2026 through 2029
collective bargaining agreement CBA.

2290
02:38:31,160 --> 02:38:35,000
Chaim Hertz is here for this item.

2291
02:38:43,920 --> 02:38:48,640
» Good evening again, Council. Mayor,
Chaim Hertz, HR Director here at the

2292
02:38:46,960 --> 02:38:53,000
City of Springfield. I will be
reasonably brief. I know it's been a

2293
02:38:50,040 --> 02:38:57,680
long night. I am here seeking a motion
to authorize or not authorize the city

2294
02:38:55,120 --> 02:39:01,400
manager to sign a 3-year successor
agreement with Springfield Police

2295
02:38:59,160 --> 02:39:06,400
Association. The details of that
agreement are outlined in the packet and

2296
02:39:03,280 --> 02:39:09,040
I'll pause if there's any questions.
>> Any questions? I thought we just did

2297
02:39:08,240 --> 02:39:12,920
this.
>> Was it 3 years ago?

2298
02:39:10,360 --> 02:39:14,680
» It was 3 years ago.
>> Go ahead.

2299
02:39:13,600 --> 02:39:17,440
Go ahead, counselor Stout.
>> Um and this is different than the

2300
02:39:16,080 --> 02:39:19,520
sergeants
um

2301
02:39:17,880 --> 02:39:23,840
» That's correct. Yeah, the police
sergeants negotiations are ongoing.

2302
02:39:26,360 --> 02:39:31,560
» I move to authorize the city manager to
execute the successor collective

2303
02:39:29,960 --> 02:39:38,040
bargaining agreement between the city of
Springfield and the SPA for the term

2304
02:39:34,120 --> 02:39:41,440
July 1, 2026 through June 30, 2029.
>> I'll second that.

2305
02:39:39,160 --> 02:39:43,480
» Is there any discussion to this?
All right.

2306
02:39:42,440 --> 02:39:45,400
Neil, could you call the vote?
>> Yes, Counselor Weber.

2307
02:39:45,040 --> 02:39:46,600
» Yes.
>> Counselor Moe.

2308
02:39:46,200 --> 02:39:48,160
» Yes.
>> Counselor Rodley.

2309
02:39:47,520 --> 02:39:49,560
» Yes.
>> Counselor Quadros.

2310
02:39:49,120 --> 02:39:51,080
» Yes.
>> Counselor Buck.

2311
02:39:50,640 --> 02:39:52,880
» Yes.
>> And Counselor Stout.

2312
02:39:52,080 --> 02:39:55,880
» Yes, thank you.
>> Motion passes, six yeses, zero noes.

2313
02:39:55,240 --> 02:39:58,360
Next item, please.
>> Any other business from the city

2314
02:39:56,960 --> 02:40:02,440
manager?
>> Just quickly, I want to thank Jane for

2315
02:40:00,440 --> 02:40:07,960
your efforts in getting this contract
completed and as well the leadership of

2316
02:40:05,760 --> 02:40:12,640
the Springfield Police Association. No
further business for me.

2317
02:40:10,960 --> 02:40:15,080
» Any business from the city attorney?
>> No, no business, thank you.

2318
02:40:13,960 --> 02:40:17,480
» All right, thank you everybody. We're
adjourned.