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um

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okay well we'd like to welcome you here
we apologize for being a few minutes

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late
um

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i'll blame
the long-windedness of who

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craig jensen oh the chief there we go
yeah he's he'll he can shoulder that so

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anyway we we appreciate you being here
tonight

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uh we'll call our meeting to order and
ask uh councilmember crandall if she'd

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uh mind giving us an invocation after
which a pledge by council members nelson

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our dear father in heaven
we are so grateful that we can be here

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together as a city council and
as members of our

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wonderful springville committee to
discuss the events of this evening

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we are also grateful for this time of
year that we get to

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celebrate
our beautiful city through art city days

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and to
enjoy the friendships that we have made

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over the years and to
enjoy activities together we pray that

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as we
go about this week that we will

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um
be able to

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recognize and enjoy one another and that
we will be safe as we go about our

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activities we are grateful for our city
and our community

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and
the things that we do for one another

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and
and we

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again are grateful for where we live it
in this beautiful city of springville

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and we say these things in the name of
jesus christ amen amen

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we're going to all stand and repeat the
pledge of allegiance

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i pledge allegiance to the flag of the
united states of america and to the

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republic for which it stands
one nation under god

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indivisible with liberty and justice for
all

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okay
council members uh you've had a chance

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to see the agenda i need approval for
the meetings agenda as written

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the motion that we approve the agenda is
written okay second i'll second it those

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in favor all right
wonderful

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um
well we're all here i mean this is an

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exciting week i don't know if any of you
had a chance to participate with some of

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the activities
but uh we tried really hard to see if we

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could have uh some of the council
members ride the wild sheep down at the

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rodeo that didn't turn out very good so
but it's uh turned out a lot uh i

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thought the kids on the sheep stayed a
little longer

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well there's not much difference between
a sheep and a bowl you know that's right

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00:04:06,879 --> 00:04:13,120
but we appreciate uh
the monies and all their uh tremendous

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effort and stacy with her crew and i'm
going to start naming people and get in

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trouble but just a tremendous amount of
work i think the comment that was made

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by some of the members of the youth
council

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was when they attended some of those art
city day meetings they were shocked at

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how much
really is involved with putting some of

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the activities on all the activities on
and how much effort goes into it so

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thanks to everyone else so
okay we have opportunity for people to

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give public comment if you'd go over and
see kim she has the sheets for you and

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we'll do that in just a little bit
but we'd like to

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take a moment and do some recognition
for the art city days so i'm not sure

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who i turn it to stacy
okay

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thank you marin council we're actually
going to turn the time over to heidi

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00:05:01,199 --> 00:05:07,280
money who is our chairperson for our
city days and she'll announce our

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dignitaries for this year's art city
days thanks stacy

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hello mayor and council and would just
like to present this year's our city

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dave's dignitaries
and we will start with frank memory

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he is our grand marshal
um long-time springville resident frank

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memory will serve as grand marshal of
the 2022 art city days grand parade on

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saturday
the para

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frank um sorry let me
start over frank george memory was born

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in standardville utah on july 29 1923 to
franklin and arlene minor memory

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frank's mother arlene died shortly after
his younger brother's birth and frank

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was raised by his father and stepmother
christine nelson memory

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frank's grandparents met med
was it mad matt and ella miner lived on

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400 south in springville
frank graduated from carbon high school

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after he joined the navy and served in
world war ii

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he served on a minesweeper and then was
transferred to a submarine the uss gato

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for the balance of his enlistment
the submarine went on many harrowing and

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dangerous missions destroying enemy
targets

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frank returned home and married eileen
brown they made their first home in

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springville they later moved to two
other locations in springville then near

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the mouth of hubble creek canyon and
finally to 200 west where frank has

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lived ever since
frank first worked with jeff miner at

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miner's garage after he took a car there
for new spark plugs and jeff offered to

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show him how to replace them
this started a wonderful life as an

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autumn auto mechanic he learned quickly
and enjoyed working on cars and trucks

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he worked for jeff for many years in two
locations

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he later started a new venture in a
building on the corner of maine and

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fourth called frank and kelly jensen's
garage

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eventually frank bought the garage on
center street from bill ruff he enjoyed

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working there for several years and
retired at this location

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he gave his services many times for
little or no charge to people in need

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frank was involved in civics and the
church during most of his life he served

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on the city's planning committee
he was also a springville city

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councilman during which time springville
city purchased the land where the hobble

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creek golf course would eventually be
built

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00:07:13,840 --> 00:07:20,080
frank helped organize the springville
ambulance he loved to help those in need

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00:07:18,400 --> 00:07:23,599
frank enjoyed serving in many positions
in the church of jesus christ of

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latter-day saints counselor bishop high
councilman and counselor to the branch

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president of the missionary training
center

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however his favorite calling was that of
scoutmaster

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he took many young men on hikes in which
they would be begging to stop while

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their 60 year old scout master frank
wanted to keep going

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frank's family and friends always always
called him the mountain goat

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frank has watched tens of thousands of
miles during his lifetime

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frank and eileen enjoyed raising their
five children in springville vaughn

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who's married to glenda sharon married
to doug

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and married to dwayne gary mary to carla
and richard married to sonny frank has

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19 grandchildren and 32
great-grandchildren and he still lives

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at home at the grand old age of 98.
frank's favorite saying is springville

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has been a good town to us we've had
many wonderful family and friends here

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he's very humbled and honored to be
chosen as the 2022 art city days parade

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grand marshal and we are happy to have
him

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[Applause]

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yes

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as long as you don't tell things i told
you

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let's have you look over here

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is

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okay now we will turn the time over to
are you going to

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patrick money for um citizens of the
year

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council mayor
this year springville citizens of the

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year who have been chosen
are lifetime springville residents

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00:10:32,399 --> 00:10:39,040
cherlene and jim jordan so we could have
an applause round of applause for them

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while they're coming up um
jim is a third generation springville

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resident he met and married shirlene
curtis in 1976.

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they started the fourth generation of
jordans born and raised in springville

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shirley and jim have been married for 45
years and together they have seven

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00:10:59,920 --> 00:11:05,920
children
13 grandchildren and four adorable

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00:11:04,160 --> 00:11:10,800
great-grandchildren is that funny that
adorable didn't show up until that

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00:11:07,920 --> 00:11:14,800
great-grandchildren
as well as their four-legged family

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00:11:12,320 --> 00:11:19,279
members jack and addie jim and shirlene
began fostering dogs four years ago and

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have enjoyed caring for all of them and
helping them find their forever homes

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00:11:21,839 --> 00:11:28,160
they have been successful in finding
homes for most of them however they did

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have two foster fails that we're very
happy to welcome jad and

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00:11:31,519 --> 00:11:36,160
we're happy to welcome jack and addy
into their home adding to their loving

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family
jim loved springville and opened his

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flooring business custom carpets off 400
south in 1996 for 25 years he has

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provided solutions for all flooring
needs for springville residents

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and the surrounding area
he is an avid golfer he golfs every

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chance he gets and faithfully supports
the springville mapleton chamber of

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00:11:56,880 --> 00:12:02,639
commerce scholarship golf tournament
each event each year

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00:12:00,800 --> 00:12:06,880
last year jim retired and closed the
doors to custom carpets in order to

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enjoy more time on the golf course and
with cherlene and their family while jim

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ran their store streaming cared for
their children and worked in several

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ventures
in 19 or sorry in 2014 yeah 1914

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wouldn't work in 2014 charlene was hired
as executive director of the springville

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mapleton chamber of commerce and at the
time and and at the time of being hired

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there were two choices for the chamber
closing the doors or bringing shilling

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on board to save it with her hard work
and love for springville mapleton and

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the business community she grew the
chamber into today's thriving

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organization she continued leading the
chamber and serving the springville

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mapleton communities until her
retirement at the end of 2020.

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even in retirement shilling continues to
serve the community and is always

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00:12:51,839 --> 00:12:59,519
willing to help in any capacity
especially the chamber she's an avid

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shop local patron and contributes
this added this and contributes this

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00:13:01,680 --> 00:13:07,600
attitude to all the fantastic business
owners she has met throughout the years

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00:13:05,760 --> 00:13:11,920
when talking about her time with the
chamber shirlene said once you're in the

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chamber it's in your blood once you've
been there and made friends with the

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business owners there that's something
you don't just walk away from

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that is still part of who you are shop
local so jimmy cherlene thank you

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[Applause]

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mr

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00:14:09,199 --> 00:14:17,720
okay now we'll turn the time over to
emily larson from the art museum

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00:14:12,880 --> 00:14:17,720
for our resident artist for this year

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00:14:19,839 --> 00:14:26,240
all right our um local filmmaker dean
duncan

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00:14:24,480 --> 00:14:31,120
do you want to come up dean or do you
want to

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00:14:27,600 --> 00:14:35,440
yeah it is special it's very special
we'll be honored during the 2022 art

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city day celebration as springville's
resident artist

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00:14:36,880 --> 00:14:43,839
and i have to say rita is so sad that
she can't be here to do this

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00:14:41,839 --> 00:14:47,680
i have worked with rita for eight years
really closely and there's almost no one

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she speaks more highly of than dean
duncan your name comes has come up all

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the time ever since i've worked with
rita and she's

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she just
she really doesn't speak highly of

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almost anyone more highly almost anyone
else

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she speaks highly of a lot of people but
i just know she really respects you and

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00:15:01,920 --> 00:15:04,240
your work

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00:15:04,880 --> 00:15:10,639
okay so duncan is an associate professor
of film in the department of theater and

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media arts at brigham young university
he has served as director of the byu

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00:15:12,560 --> 00:15:18,639
children's media initiative and director
of his department's london study abroad

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program he received his bachelor's of
fine arts degree in film production from

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byu in 1987. his master's degree in film
criticism came from the university of

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southern california in 1992. he earned
his phd in 1999 from glasgow university

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he is especially interested and involved
in documentary and children's media

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dean is a professor in the theater and
media arts department and byu and has

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been teaching for 30 years he is also a
writer documentary filmmaker and

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broadcaster
he has produced many film projects

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including fit for the kingdom lives of
the latter day saints a series of films

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telling the stories of ordinary people
living their lives

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duncan has made presentations about
various aspects of film at conferences

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and workshops both nationally and
internationally in 2016 he created and

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presented a film series at the
springville museum of art in conjunction

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00:16:07,839 --> 00:16:15,279
with the museum's exhibit of soviet era
art the series was titled kino russian

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stories and soviet ideals in film
he has written several books about

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filmmaking including charms that soothe
classical music and the narrative film a

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survey of the aesthetics of classical
music and film

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thinking about film a critical
perspective a book for those who want to

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00:16:28,160 --> 00:16:34,880
be more active intelligent film viewers
and stories of childhood evolving

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00:16:32,800 --> 00:16:38,880
portrayals in books and films which
questions the widely held perception

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that books as an artistic medium are
superior to and more respectable than

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film or television
he has also authored many scholarly

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00:16:44,720 --> 00:16:49,759
articles for various publications
including byu studies and the children's

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00:16:48,240 --> 00:16:53,680
media review
dean comes to us from edmonton alberta

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but for the last 30 years springville
has been home to him and his wife sharon

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00:16:55,839 --> 00:17:00,720
they have six children and four
grandchildren

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00:16:58,720 --> 00:17:04,000
one of dean's greatest satisfactions is
helping students and individuals make

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00:17:02,240 --> 00:17:08,319
the connection of the importance and
positive influence that all forms of art

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can have on our lives congratulations
dean

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[Applause]

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00:17:40,240 --> 00:17:47,280
we have one more recognition um rheem's
market is business of the year

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00:17:45,039 --> 00:17:51,280
unfortunately they were unable to make
it tonight so we just want to recognize

200
00:17:49,440 --> 00:18:00,080
rheem's market as our
art city days business of the year

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00:17:53,610 --> 00:18:04,640
[Applause]
well congratulations to all of you i

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00:18:02,160 --> 00:18:09,039
mean we're just so honored to be able to
to honor you and to express our

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00:18:06,720 --> 00:18:13,120
appreciation as a city for all that you
do to make our city a wonderful place

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00:18:11,600 --> 00:18:17,120
some have been here a little bit and
some have been here a long time but

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00:18:15,520 --> 00:18:20,559
springville is a great place and it's
because of people like yourselves that

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00:18:18,799 --> 00:18:25,919
make it possible so thank you very much
for everything that you've done we

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00:18:22,240 --> 00:18:25,919
really appreciate it thanks

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00:18:27,679 --> 00:18:33,520
and i didn't confess that much to frank
just

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mayor can i say one thing about frank
please about 50 years ago i was working

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the night shift at miners auto and frank
was running it and it was late at night

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and
he pulls in about 11 o'clock with a

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00:18:46,559 --> 00:18:52,640
cheeseburger and fries for me from
some dairy queen because he knew i was

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there working hard alone
so

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00:18:53,679 --> 00:18:58,960
what that just tells you what an awesome
guy he was most owners would have been

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00:18:57,200 --> 00:19:04,960
home in bed he's down there watching
brought me a hamburger hamburger and i

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00:19:00,799 --> 00:19:04,960
still appreciate that 50 years later

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00:19:06,960 --> 00:19:10,280
thank you

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00:19:10,559 --> 00:19:18,880
okay we'll move to the public comment uh
portion of our meeting is there a roger

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00:19:16,240 --> 00:19:18,880
rabbit here

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00:19:20,480 --> 00:19:22,799
okay

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00:19:22,960 --> 00:19:27,919
there we go
excuse me

222
00:19:26,000 --> 00:19:31,280
oh please yes i didn't see you there
thank you

223
00:19:29,280 --> 00:19:33,520
you're from fruitland
utah

224
00:19:32,480 --> 00:19:38,360
wonderful
not missouri i know where fruitland is

225
00:19:39,200 --> 00:19:47,520
um
i'm here to announce to you that um

226
00:19:44,880 --> 00:19:50,799
uh the company i represent made a 12
million dollar bid on some property here

227
00:19:49,679 --> 00:19:55,440
locally
and we wanted you to be aware that we're

228
00:19:52,799 --> 00:20:00,559
thinking about you
and so if

229
00:19:57,280 --> 00:20:03,919
we find through working with josh and
laura

230
00:20:01,919 --> 00:20:08,480
that we can
do a development here for it in the

231
00:20:06,240 --> 00:20:14,960
community that will bring hundreds of
millions of dollars to springfield city

232
00:20:12,159 --> 00:20:19,440
uh economic development
just wanted to let you be aware we have

233
00:20:16,799 --> 00:20:24,320
not chosen a place i just had a chance
this morning to talk to

234
00:20:21,200 --> 00:20:27,039
josh and laura and a couple other people
at once and

235
00:20:25,520 --> 00:20:30,000
find out
what

236
00:20:28,880 --> 00:20:33,039
uh
criteria i have

237
00:20:32,240 --> 00:20:36,799
to
develop

238
00:20:34,400 --> 00:20:40,240
and i've been uh just from my bank they
want me to do a project

239
00:20:38,960 --> 00:20:44,000
so
you're in luck i guess

240
00:20:42,480 --> 00:20:47,840
that's wonderful
we're very i'm just looking

241
00:20:46,080 --> 00:20:52,000
i was trying to do something in a
housing area

242
00:20:49,200 --> 00:20:55,760
up in left fork but
there seems to be a jam up of water

243
00:20:54,080 --> 00:20:59,039
rights up there
just slightly

244
00:20:56,860 --> 00:21:02,559
[Laughter]
and so

245
00:21:01,360 --> 00:21:06,799
i guess i
need to take a look at this and see if

246
00:21:04,240 --> 00:21:09,919
this will be a little bit different
and i've already got a couple

247
00:21:08,159 --> 00:21:13,840
subdivisions i'm working on up in
duchenne well that's wonderful well

248
00:21:11,840 --> 00:21:17,440
we're glad you're uh looking at us and
we uh try to put our best foot forward

249
00:21:15,679 --> 00:21:22,559
for you and josh is a good man you'll be
able to have good conversation with him

250
00:21:19,679 --> 00:21:24,960
he's very nice he is thank you very much
thank you

251
00:21:25,600 --> 00:21:30,080
okay let's enter to
the

252
00:21:28,080 --> 00:21:34,240
portion of our meeting for the consent
items uh we asked in the last meeting if

253
00:21:32,559 --> 00:21:37,919
there were any questions in relationship
to them and having none

254
00:21:35,919 --> 00:21:41,840
i'll entertain a motion for approval of
the consent agenda

255
00:21:40,080 --> 00:21:46,559
a motion to approve the consent agenda
is written second i'll second those in

256
00:21:44,640 --> 00:21:50,000
favor
oops excuse me

257
00:21:48,240 --> 00:21:58,400
i stand back that back it's a roll call
vote okay mr jensen yes sir mr jason

258
00:21:54,000 --> 00:22:01,120
yep chris yes liz yes mike yes okay it
passes

259
00:21:59,440 --> 00:22:06,000
there we go
okay let's enter the regular portion of

260
00:22:03,120 --> 00:22:11,240
our agenda josh in relationship to a
change from r115 to r18

261
00:22:15,280 --> 00:22:20,640
when we number the consent
agenda items individually like that it

262
00:22:19,200 --> 00:22:24,000
always makes me think i have more time
before i

263
00:22:21,679 --> 00:22:28,720
gonna stand up for item eight but
we've made good time uh just a moment

264
00:22:26,400 --> 00:22:28,720
let me

265
00:22:38,320 --> 00:22:43,280
all right thank you mayor and council
uh

266
00:22:42,320 --> 00:22:46,960
this
request that's coming before you was

267
00:22:45,039 --> 00:22:50,080
heard by the planning commission on may
10th

268
00:22:48,080 --> 00:22:53,600
and comes to you with a unanimous
recommendation from the present uh

269
00:22:52,320 --> 00:22:55,840
planning commission members it was a
four to zero

270
00:22:54,960 --> 00:23:00,400
vote
it is for an area in the uh a property

271
00:22:58,799 --> 00:23:02,880
in the area of 1500 west and center
street is shown here on this vicinity

272
00:23:02,080 --> 00:23:05,600
map
commonly known as the urchin back

273
00:23:04,159 --> 00:23:09,360
property
across the street from merit academy to

274
00:23:07,520 --> 00:23:13,280
the west of reagan academy and north of
the

275
00:23:11,360 --> 00:23:16,880
the jakers
the site that's used for jakers in the

276
00:23:14,640 --> 00:23:24,240
fall
the current zoning for the area is r115

277
00:23:20,880 --> 00:23:29,039
it's about 28.53 acres and the general
plan calls for it to be medium low res

278
00:23:26,240 --> 00:23:33,520
density residential some of the back uh
ground on this area

279
00:23:30,960 --> 00:23:38,799
is that as you can see in the zoning map
it's

280
00:23:34,840 --> 00:23:42,880
r115 and using cs of r18 to the north of
it up north of merit academy

281
00:23:41,279 --> 00:23:46,559
and that is actually the same general
plan designation as this site

282
00:23:47,279 --> 00:23:53,600
so
a number of uh property owners when the

283
00:23:50,559 --> 00:23:56,320
westfield plan was in process and the
zoning was adopted to implement that

284
00:23:55,279 --> 00:24:00,159
plan
uh

285
00:23:57,840 --> 00:24:04,720
ask the city to or
petition to have their property stay or

286
00:24:02,320 --> 00:24:08,159
be designated in the r115 zone to
protect their what they perceived as

287
00:24:06,720 --> 00:24:11,440
their animal rights
so they didn't have they weren't made

288
00:24:10,000 --> 00:24:15,760
non-conforming
this area was

289
00:24:13,039 --> 00:24:20,799
designated as medium density residential
in the westfields plan which actually

290
00:24:18,400 --> 00:24:25,679
ranges from six to ten units an acre
but was designated in the actual general

291
00:24:23,200 --> 00:24:28,240
plan under that medium-low density
uh

292
00:24:26,559 --> 00:24:31,440
i mean four to seven dwelling units an
acre but was actually designated in the

293
00:24:29,840 --> 00:24:36,159
general plan as the medium-low density
residential

294
00:24:33,840 --> 00:24:40,240
the current r115 zoning
permits essentially up to two drilling

295
00:24:37,679 --> 00:24:45,200
units per acre and the requested r18
zoning

296
00:24:41,919 --> 00:24:48,000
is comes in at a maximum of 3.8 dwelling
units per acre

297
00:24:46,960 --> 00:24:51,200
and that
falls right in line with the medium-low

298
00:24:49,679 --> 00:24:55,520
density residential general plan
designation in the three to five units

299
00:24:53,039 --> 00:24:59,279
per acre realm
there's some interesting policy

300
00:24:56,640 --> 00:25:04,320
considerations here generally i
use the council have directed us not to

301
00:25:02,640 --> 00:25:08,240
support proposals to increase
residential density in

302
00:25:06,559 --> 00:25:12,720
these areas of the city
to stick with the plan essentially

303
00:25:11,200 --> 00:25:17,360
but where we have the westfield plan
that designated this site

304
00:25:14,880 --> 00:25:21,520
according to what the actual request is
now and it's essentially just been a

305
00:25:19,600 --> 00:25:25,120
20-year separation between the adoption
of the plan and the application of the

306
00:25:23,039 --> 00:25:29,360
zoning we don't view it as an increase
in density because it actually conforms

307
00:25:27,120 --> 00:25:33,760
to the current plan
uh the planning commission did recommend

308
00:25:31,120 --> 00:25:37,279
approval as i mentioned on a four uh
to zero vote

309
00:25:35,200 --> 00:25:40,240
and uh
is the overlay active in that area

310
00:25:38,799 --> 00:25:43,120
probably the westfield's overlay yeah
yes so so they could get increased

311
00:25:41,840 --> 00:25:48,880
density
and they they are they are seeking or

312
00:25:45,520 --> 00:25:52,320
applying for density bonus uh as part of
that same overlay so correct they could

313
00:25:50,880 --> 00:25:56,000
go because it's already in the
westfield's overlay right was it i

314
00:25:54,400 --> 00:26:01,440
thought it was r10 and then it could be
r8 with density bonus

315
00:25:58,720 --> 00:26:05,600
it it doesn't bump you up
a zoning category it actually just gives

316
00:26:04,320 --> 00:26:10,320
you a
certain number of additional

317
00:26:07,679 --> 00:26:14,799
units based on the criteria that you
meet whether that's enhanced front

318
00:26:12,480 --> 00:26:18,159
porches or open space or enhanced
materials you'd still need the eight

319
00:26:16,559 --> 00:26:22,960
there'd still be in the eight which is
eight thousand square feet yes yeah that

320
00:26:21,200 --> 00:26:26,080
that's the minimum lot size is gonna be
eight thousand square feet no matter

321
00:26:24,559 --> 00:26:30,400
what yes the minimum wage is gonna be
eight thousand well no not for the whole

322
00:26:28,799 --> 00:26:34,400
project there may be there's gonna be
there could be town homes or other units

323
00:26:32,240 --> 00:26:38,480
in there but a certain percentage of the
property has to be conformed to the

324
00:26:36,640 --> 00:26:42,159
requirements of the base zone so a
certain percentage of that 28 acres has

325
00:26:40,880 --> 00:26:45,200
to have eight thousand square foot
minute they don't use the west fields

326
00:26:43,440 --> 00:26:48,320
overlay then it's eight thousand minutes
okay yeah i just wanted to make sure

327
00:26:46,720 --> 00:26:51,360
because i mean it's the whole west field
is set up this way so it's only correct

328
00:26:49,760 --> 00:26:54,000
i just wanted to make one make sure that
they weren't getting any more than the

329
00:26:52,720 --> 00:26:56,240
other westfields but then at the same
point make sure they're not good

330
00:26:54,799 --> 00:27:00,000
nothing's changing about the westfield's
density bonus program we're just

331
00:26:57,600 --> 00:27:03,919
changing the base zone from the r115 to
the r18 which is what was intended it

332
00:27:02,240 --> 00:27:07,200
was kind of carved out
yeah if you go back to the map there's

333
00:27:05,520 --> 00:27:11,679
actually a couple pieces that were
carved out the urchin bracks the uh

334
00:27:10,400 --> 00:27:14,960
uh
there was another one in there somewhere

335
00:27:13,200 --> 00:27:21,440
on center street i can't remember where
there was one here we just redid uh last

336
00:27:18,000 --> 00:27:24,480
year and then there's the uh
um

337
00:27:23,200 --> 00:27:28,720
you know i'm talking about the two
property owners on either side of center

338
00:27:26,159 --> 00:27:33,679
freedom well sims but some was it
simpson no uh

339
00:27:30,960 --> 00:27:37,200
dutch hall and then across the street
to the west of dutch hall those are also

340
00:27:35,760 --> 00:27:42,080
r115
still yeah and that probably will be for

341
00:27:39,679 --> 00:27:46,480
at least another 10 15 years
we'll see

342
00:27:44,080 --> 00:27:49,120
any other questions
is that all

343
00:27:47,600 --> 00:27:53,360
i had another question are you still
going to keep adding to this no i i i i

344
00:27:51,679 --> 00:27:56,960
just wonder are we
as far as uh

345
00:27:54,960 --> 00:28:02,559
what they're giving to us have we not
decided i mean if park space or in lieu

346
00:27:59,760 --> 00:28:07,360
of or what are we doing it's just a zone
change this is not a subdivision

347
00:28:04,880 --> 00:28:11,360
approval of any sort this is just to
allow them to move forward okay with

348
00:28:09,760 --> 00:28:16,000
bringing us a subdivision plan which
they've done some preliminary work on

349
00:28:13,360 --> 00:28:19,200
but no approvals i guess when i saw that
flip up there i thought that was

350
00:28:17,919 --> 00:28:23,120
you know the previous one i thought
those were some of the

351
00:28:20,880 --> 00:28:26,320
yeah yeah it's not that the one you had
i guess and that's that's good because

352
00:28:25,039 --> 00:28:28,799
we haven't
we want to look at that yeah and they're

353
00:28:27,840 --> 00:28:33,919
going to
dedicate however it works out the area

354
00:28:31,360 --> 00:28:36,799
along 1200 west is part of the 1200 west
linear park

355
00:28:35,120 --> 00:28:41,200
and there may be some other dedications
in there as well

356
00:28:38,640 --> 00:28:45,279
okay so josh you and i had a
conversation with this particular

357
00:28:43,120 --> 00:28:48,080
developer at one point and they
threw some

358
00:28:46,799 --> 00:28:53,919
kind of
uh plat drawings at us and we didn't

359
00:28:51,279 --> 00:28:59,520
like those i'm i'm not opposed to the
zone change but i would be opposed to

360
00:28:57,039 --> 00:29:02,880
something like that being put in there
that's uh the catch here

361
00:29:01,520 --> 00:29:06,720
uh is
when you approve the zone change you

362
00:29:05,679 --> 00:29:09,679
approve
any

363
00:29:07,760 --> 00:29:14,320
you're essentially granting entitlement
to any code compliant development so if

364
00:29:12,080 --> 00:29:18,399
there is a concern
that

365
00:29:15,279 --> 00:29:22,240
you want that the existing ordinance
won't give you the level of comfort you

366
00:29:20,080 --> 00:29:26,480
want to guarantee a certain result then
you shouldn't uh you would want to hold

367
00:29:24,559 --> 00:29:30,559
off on changing the zone or put some
restrictions on that zone

368
00:29:28,799 --> 00:29:34,399
which would require us to go and do some
drafting and go back to planning

369
00:29:32,240 --> 00:29:38,960
commission which we're happy to do but
if you feel that

370
00:29:36,399 --> 00:29:43,440
another typical westfield's subdivision
here isn't quite what you're wanting

371
00:29:41,679 --> 00:29:47,679
well it's not it isn't the typical
westfield subdivision i'm fine with the

372
00:29:45,279 --> 00:29:51,440
typical westfield subdivision what what
i had a problem with when we had that

373
00:29:49,279 --> 00:29:55,120
conversation before was
i mean it looked kind of like that

374
00:29:54,159 --> 00:29:58,799
that
townhome area just to the east of that

375
00:29:57,679 --> 00:30:03,360
property
at least the drawings that they gave us

376
00:30:01,120 --> 00:30:06,480
which which i would have
not been comfortable with at all and

377
00:30:05,600 --> 00:30:11,600
that
would be permitted

378
00:30:09,679 --> 00:30:16,960
but only in a certain
only honest portion of the site but not

379
00:30:14,159 --> 00:30:21,120
an insubstantial portion of the site
because it all has to average r18

380
00:30:19,919 --> 00:30:26,080
no
uh there is a maximum total units per

381
00:30:23,919 --> 00:30:30,399
acre that you can yield
and then a certain percentage of that

382
00:30:27,679 --> 00:30:33,600
has to be developed to the 8 000 square
foot lot standard a certain percentage

383
00:30:31,919 --> 00:30:38,240
can be developed as twin homes or
duplexes a certain percentage then the

384
00:30:36,399 --> 00:30:41,279
rest could be developed as a smaller
single-family

385
00:30:39,679 --> 00:30:44,640
uh
lot product as long as you don't exceed

386
00:30:43,279 --> 00:30:48,559
the total
number of units we go through a whole

387
00:30:46,399 --> 00:30:51,840
spreadsheet to come up with your debt
your base units plus your density

388
00:30:50,000 --> 00:30:55,919
bonuses give you your total units and
that's in the overlay not in the zone

389
00:30:53,840 --> 00:30:55,919
right

390
00:30:56,399 --> 00:31:04,880
the density bonus the the developer has
to give back to the city if you will in

391
00:31:02,159 --> 00:31:09,200
terms of open space development quality
materials and design and so forth that

392
00:31:07,039 --> 00:31:13,919
they they can add those up to whatever
density they're seeking up to a maximum

393
00:31:11,679 --> 00:31:19,679
amount but to mike's point they could
design or have that any way they want as

394
00:31:16,880 --> 00:31:25,200
long as it conforms to the overlay if we
approve it to the overlay and the r18000

395
00:31:22,720 --> 00:31:29,840
correct and so that's the same as they
can do the same thing in the r115 zone

396
00:31:27,360 --> 00:31:35,200
but obviously quite a bit less density
and you get less total units

397
00:31:32,559 --> 00:31:35,200
to work with

398
00:31:36,880 --> 00:31:43,519
that was really one of the key elements
of the westfield's overlay is it

399
00:31:40,799 --> 00:31:43,519
worked to

400
00:31:43,600 --> 00:31:51,519
reduce the really harsh segmentation of
product types by allowing

401
00:31:49,279 --> 00:31:55,120
uh different types of product types
under one base zone and i mean i wasn't

402
00:31:53,840 --> 00:31:58,880
around when that was created but i like
it because it helps it helps community

403
00:31:57,440 --> 00:32:02,960
because if you have all of your high
density in one spot

404
00:32:00,799 --> 00:32:06,799
it really is not useful it's not helpful
for a community but if you have and it's

405
00:32:04,960 --> 00:32:09,919
like my son lives in this ward so i know
it very well and it's like well we have

406
00:32:08,720 --> 00:32:13,519
this but then we also have these nice
houses that's what that overlay creates

407
00:32:12,399 --> 00:32:17,840
is it's like hey you can have that
density in this spot so create yourself

408
00:32:15,840 --> 00:32:22,240
some affordable housing here but real
close like in the same ward if you will

409
00:32:20,880 --> 00:32:26,240
there's going to be some nicer homes so
you have a little more

410
00:32:23,760 --> 00:32:30,399
that that's my i mean and we call it
different things but that's a form of

411
00:32:27,919 --> 00:32:34,080
mixed density yeah absolutely that
really makes for a better community in

412
00:32:32,000 --> 00:32:36,480
my opinion and people may disagree and
the

413
00:32:34,960 --> 00:32:40,240
the concept they're currently working
off of is an improvement over the

414
00:32:38,640 --> 00:32:44,000
concept you saw
uh which i hope so which in a lot of

415
00:32:41,919 --> 00:32:46,640
ways you saw before was awful right and
it didn't necessarily meet the

416
00:32:45,360 --> 00:32:50,159
requirements of the zone they're getting
a lot closer there's way too much

417
00:32:48,080 --> 00:32:55,919
density in it yeah
they're originally asking for an

418
00:32:52,559 --> 00:32:59,279
additional uh to go up to the r2 zone as
a transition between this village center

419
00:32:57,840 --> 00:33:03,360
and the r8
so i'm okay with that i'm okay with that

420
00:33:01,200 --> 00:33:06,480
mix like what craig's talking about as
long as that whole piece doesn't turn

421
00:33:05,519 --> 00:33:11,600
into
it doesn't turn into what that thing is

422
00:33:08,720 --> 00:33:17,360
then it can't based on the based on the
r18 i don't think no we can pull it up

423
00:33:14,000 --> 00:33:20,320
under the r18 25 percent has to be done
the land area has to be done in the base

424
00:33:19,440 --> 00:33:26,480
zone
so 25 percent of land area will be an r1

425
00:33:22,720 --> 00:33:31,440
8000 single family lots another 25 has
to be in single family detached product

426
00:33:29,360 --> 00:33:35,440
and then the rest can be done i mean it
can all be done in single family but the

427
00:33:33,120 --> 00:33:40,880
rest can be done uh either in
an r2 or in some multi-family and it's

428
00:33:37,919 --> 00:33:45,440
town homes um for the balance but that's
half of that half of the acreage could

429
00:33:43,279 --> 00:33:49,519
be in r2 it could be
they also can't go over the maximum

430
00:33:47,279 --> 00:33:49,519
density

431
00:33:49,679 --> 00:33:55,600
they can't go over the maximum density
allowed and they have to qualify for

432
00:33:53,679 --> 00:33:58,320
density bonuses
um

433
00:33:56,480 --> 00:34:02,799
to to get there so we can we can pull up
and show you the numbers if you'd like

434
00:34:00,480 --> 00:34:06,320
so the maximum density increase is 40
percent

435
00:34:04,399 --> 00:34:11,839
most of our developments are coming in
with about a 20 density increase did you

436
00:34:09,839 --> 00:34:16,879
hear that mike that you could get 40 or
50 percent your base in r18 is 3.8

437
00:34:14,800 --> 00:34:20,560
baseline units per acre
that's what we do the math off of that's

438
00:34:18,639 --> 00:34:25,040
what you get to start
and then by employing your maximum

439
00:34:22,960 --> 00:34:28,800
density bonus you get 40 which takes you
to five three in an r18

440
00:34:29,119 --> 00:34:36,560
so if you look at that overall 28 acres
and did the multiplication that's how

441
00:34:33,280 --> 00:34:40,960
many total units they have to play with
and we're not seeing people reach that

442
00:34:38,720 --> 00:34:45,359
40 percent in too many developments
right but they could they could

443
00:34:43,359 --> 00:34:49,919
but for instance a lot of the
developments that have been on the

444
00:34:47,839 --> 00:34:54,240
south side of four south of you're
seeing numbers around 10 to 14 is all

445
00:34:52,560 --> 00:34:59,599
you saw in a lot of those
so you got a lot of single family homes

446
00:34:56,639 --> 00:35:02,480
yeah i mean and the the density right
because i mean the density bonuses based

447
00:35:01,359 --> 00:35:06,079
some of them
at this point and that's something we've

448
00:35:04,400 --> 00:35:10,320
talked about internally if things were
ever slowed down it may be worth

449
00:35:07,920 --> 00:35:13,119
rebalancing some of that because the
density bonuses when originally created

450
00:35:12,400 --> 00:35:17,599
were
made roughly equivalent to

451
00:35:15,680 --> 00:35:21,040
value-wise to the increased density
you're receiving but some things have

452
00:35:19,359 --> 00:35:24,880
gotten out of balance for example it may
be more expensive to put brick on the

453
00:35:23,119 --> 00:35:27,839
house now than it's worth in terms of
additional units you get from density

454
00:35:26,480 --> 00:35:32,000
bonus
and so that's why you're seeing

455
00:35:29,839 --> 00:35:36,000
many of them come in less than maximums
because it doesn't make financial sense

456
00:35:33,599 --> 00:35:40,079
to do that but if you're only getting i
mean if you use the 20 percent that's

457
00:35:38,800 --> 00:35:44,079
um
you can't put it all in multi-family

458
00:35:42,560 --> 00:35:47,280
housing because you'll have too much
other land left over if that makes sense

459
00:35:45,920 --> 00:35:52,160
because you've got to get your units in
there in a profitable way yeah josh can

460
00:35:49,839 --> 00:35:56,480
you answer me a question i i apologize
because i just want to understand it and

461
00:35:53,920 --> 00:36:00,480
i don't yet you said it really matches
what has been out there anyway

462
00:35:58,400 --> 00:36:06,960
yet we're making a motion
to amend it so i i'm not clear on if if

463
00:36:05,040 --> 00:36:11,040
it's matching what is already out there
why are we amending it i don't get that

464
00:36:08,800 --> 00:36:16,960
when you said that what i meant is that
the existing westfield's plan and

465
00:36:14,079 --> 00:36:21,040
general plan say that this should be
r18

466
00:36:18,880 --> 00:36:25,040
they haven't ever asked for that because
they were not interested in developing

467
00:36:22,560 --> 00:36:29,839
the property
go back to your big map it's easier like

468
00:36:26,960 --> 00:36:34,000
dutch hall's property is not r18 but if
at some point it will be yes this these

469
00:36:31,680 --> 00:36:38,160
are all designated to come in go back to
you had the overall plan from the west

470
00:36:36,320 --> 00:36:41,119
field oh yes yes you understand my
question

471
00:36:39,280 --> 00:36:45,440
so if you look at the go ahead and
explain and walk through

472
00:36:42,960 --> 00:36:50,000
that plan so these lighter colors are
the lower density areas

473
00:36:47,280 --> 00:36:54,640
at the extreme perimeter and then you
gradually step up uh towards the center

474
00:36:52,720 --> 00:36:59,040
with higher density and then
in the areas generally adjacent to the

475
00:36:56,800 --> 00:37:04,240
rail corridor you have slightly higher
densities permitted as well so this plan

476
00:37:01,760 --> 00:37:07,839
said this area should always be
this dense because of where it is and so

477
00:37:06,480 --> 00:37:13,119
you see i've drawn this little box over
it so you can see where it is so it's in

478
00:37:09,920 --> 00:37:17,280
this orange area but they never asked to
change the zone to match the plan so

479
00:37:15,119 --> 00:37:20,800
we've heard loud and clear from the the
council that

480
00:37:18,800 --> 00:37:24,480
you like the plan that was in place and
that you didn't want to see

481
00:37:22,800 --> 00:37:27,839
increased densities that that was
something you're generally not in favor

482
00:37:26,160 --> 00:37:30,000
of and so i pushed back pretty hard on
community development on that point

483
00:37:29,280 --> 00:37:35,599
because
um this violated that second tenet of

484
00:37:32,720 --> 00:37:39,680
kind of increasing density but when the
staff brought to me and walked through

485
00:37:37,200 --> 00:37:43,359
this portion of it the original plan
this is in harmony with the original

486
00:37:41,280 --> 00:37:46,880
plan it meets what the intent of the
original plan was to have the dense area

487
00:37:45,040 --> 00:37:51,280
at the center radiating outward to lower
density they said fine then it can you

488
00:37:49,680 --> 00:37:56,079
can go to the planning commission for
their guidance and recommendation

489
00:37:53,440 --> 00:37:59,839
um and planning commission heard it and
has has recommended it to you and you're

490
00:37:58,240 --> 00:38:03,280
asking the questions we would anticipate
you asked based upon the guidance you've

491
00:38:01,440 --> 00:38:05,920
given us in the past but
you know josh is explaining the

492
00:38:04,640 --> 00:38:12,560
reasoning behind both the planning
commission and staff recommending for it

493
00:38:08,320 --> 00:38:16,320
but this particular piece was left r115
simply because the property owners

494
00:38:14,240 --> 00:38:21,200
requested that
originally and now they don't want that

495
00:38:18,720 --> 00:38:25,359
anymore they're ready to sell
and

496
00:38:22,160 --> 00:38:28,560
20 years later they're ready to have the
plan come into effect they want to go

497
00:38:26,800 --> 00:38:33,520
back what they could have accepted
earlier yes i missed that i missed that

498
00:38:31,040 --> 00:38:37,760
in the translation why we were having to
change it if it was the same yes

499
00:38:36,240 --> 00:38:41,760
but it never got
yeah right but the r115 from the overall

500
00:38:40,640 --> 00:38:46,480
plan
would be out of place with what the

501
00:38:44,240 --> 00:38:50,880
overall plan is yeah sure
that's why we would need to

502
00:38:48,480 --> 00:38:55,040
change it yeah but it was the same i was
confused there okay it's kind of like my

503
00:38:52,800 --> 00:38:58,480
old my dad's old coat in my closet at my
house they had this

504
00:38:57,119 --> 00:39:01,200
thing on it with punch holes in it he
said don't ever tear that off and i said

505
00:38:59,839 --> 00:39:04,640
why he said well those are punch passes
to although i was like they do those

506
00:39:02,800 --> 00:39:08,160
he's like no i just haven't redeemed it
so these

507
00:39:05,680 --> 00:39:12,160
these people have just been not redeemed
their punch pass for 20 years and now

508
00:39:10,160 --> 00:39:16,800
they're but it's still up to you i mean
for our benefit we're listening to the

509
00:39:14,720 --> 00:39:22,320
debate to understand better kind of the
tug of war between those two items right

510
00:39:19,440 --> 00:39:27,119
between whether no density preempts
stick with the plan so that we know how

511
00:39:24,640 --> 00:39:31,599
to better you know react to and and
educate and talk to developers in the

512
00:39:28,800 --> 00:39:35,520
future and as mayor packard uh noted in
the last meeting

513
00:39:33,520 --> 00:39:39,200
a few you know a future council can
always make a different decision so

514
00:39:36,800 --> 00:39:42,560
you're not bound by this plan you're not
the lift guy who has to punch the pass

515
00:39:41,200 --> 00:39:49,119
lost
why we were doing it if it was the same

516
00:39:45,599 --> 00:39:52,720
yeah good discussion okay
are we ready

517
00:39:50,240 --> 00:39:55,440
uh hold on unless me see are there any
questions that need to be asked of josh

518
00:39:54,720 --> 00:39:58,800
i
it thank you i'm just uh the only thing

519
00:39:57,599 --> 00:40:03,520
was just
when mike brought up the

520
00:40:00,800 --> 00:40:07,200
the look of the buildings but
but i understand the whole

521
00:40:05,440 --> 00:40:10,800
country where we are the concept but we
are much more into the look of things

522
00:40:08,800 --> 00:40:13,760
yes we are i like a better look of
things i don't want somebody giving me

523
00:40:12,560 --> 00:40:16,240
some
thing that's not beautiful

524
00:40:15,440 --> 00:40:20,800
okay
any other questions my eye

525
00:40:18,960 --> 00:40:24,560
okay great i'll motion to prove
ordinance 06 2022 amending the

526
00:40:22,800 --> 00:40:27,920
springville official zone map on parcels
two three

527
00:40:25,680 --> 00:40:32,319
zero three zero zero zero one six two
three zero three one zero zero one five

528
00:40:29,680 --> 00:40:36,720
two three zero three zero zero zero one
and two three zero three one zero zero

529
00:40:34,079 --> 00:40:41,440
one four from the r 115 single family
residential zones to the r18

530
00:40:38,960 --> 00:40:45,440
single-family residential zones located
in the area of 1500 west and center

531
00:40:43,119 --> 00:40:50,640
street okay i have a motion on the any
questions on the motion

532
00:40:48,319 --> 00:40:57,520
i have a second
a second okay it's a roll call vote

533
00:40:54,079 --> 00:41:05,800
miss crandall yes mr miller yes mr
sorenson yes mr snelson yes mr jensen

534
00:41:01,440 --> 00:41:05,800
yes okay motion passes

535
00:41:10,400 --> 00:41:15,359
okay mr yoster
still up

536
00:41:19,760 --> 00:41:27,280
our next item is uh some amendment to
our city code related related to

537
00:41:25,920 --> 00:41:30,800
specific sign
regulations and i

538
00:41:29,440 --> 00:41:33,920
copied this slide over from planning
commission this has not been continued

539
00:41:32,400 --> 00:41:37,520
to you it was continued in planning
commission sorry about that

540
00:41:35,920 --> 00:41:42,880
this also was heard at
planning commission on may 10th

541
00:41:40,560 --> 00:41:46,480
so we have some specific sign
regulations our sign code is set up

542
00:41:45,359 --> 00:41:51,440
to
designate sign areas across the city and

543
00:41:49,119 --> 00:41:54,400
then define a series of different types
of signs

544
00:41:52,720 --> 00:41:57,200
and then apply those signs to the
different sign areas

545
00:41:56,160 --> 00:42:00,480
there are
some

546
00:41:58,400 --> 00:42:05,040
signs types that we don't have as i
mentioned in the staff report that

547
00:42:02,720 --> 00:42:08,000
traditionally were very common there are
some signs that we don't have

548
00:42:06,960 --> 00:42:12,640
really
well crafted regulations for

549
00:42:10,800 --> 00:42:16,880
and that need to be updated and one of
the

550
00:42:13,760 --> 00:42:20,560
impetuses behind this discussion was uh
wavetronix came to us with the signed

551
00:42:18,480 --> 00:42:25,440
package for hobble creek square which is
their corporate campus

552
00:42:22,960 --> 00:42:28,800
and they had some great sign types in
there that were very reminiscent of

553
00:42:26,800 --> 00:42:33,119
signs you may see in
his historic or traditional downtown

554
00:42:30,640 --> 00:42:38,160
that we just didn't have a way to permit
we didn't have categories for so made us

555
00:42:35,760 --> 00:42:41,760
take a kind of a look at our sign code
and evaluate uh

556
00:42:40,560 --> 00:42:45,359
how we could
make the sign code more palatable or

557
00:42:44,160 --> 00:42:47,599
more clear
or

558
00:42:48,000 --> 00:42:54,800
better in its ability to facilitate
creativity and expression in signage

559
00:42:53,200 --> 00:42:59,200
commensurate with our images of the art
city

560
00:42:56,480 --> 00:43:02,640
without while still maintaining
everyone's quality of life in terms of

561
00:43:00,800 --> 00:43:05,839
the aesthetic considerations and things
that are important to people

562
00:43:04,240 --> 00:43:09,440
so uh
we took this chance as we were getting

563
00:43:07,839 --> 00:43:13,040
into this to actually look at a-frame
signs because it was one of the things

564
00:43:10,720 --> 00:43:16,160
on my accounts priorities list that i'm
hoping to check off tonight

565
00:43:15,040 --> 00:43:21,280
and
the elements we've included in this

566
00:43:18,240 --> 00:43:25,599
update to the a-frame signs
is that you can have one portable

567
00:43:22,800 --> 00:43:28,720
a-frame sign per ground level business
and it has to be

568
00:43:26,960 --> 00:43:32,480
attended by a responsible party and
we've included some uh requirements for

569
00:43:31,200 --> 00:43:35,200
that so it basically means there has to
be somebody in the business or next to

570
00:43:34,240 --> 00:43:37,920
the sign
attending it

571
00:43:37,040 --> 00:43:43,599
we
limit the size height area of the signs

572
00:43:41,359 --> 00:43:50,079
the the type of
copy that can be on the signs that can

573
00:43:45,200 --> 00:43:50,079
only be used for on-premise advertising

574
00:43:50,720 --> 00:43:56,880
allstate couldn't put out a sign for
duke's jewelers or vice versa

575
00:43:56,960 --> 00:44:03,440
the location of the display is also
defined as being essentially between the

576
00:44:01,119 --> 00:44:06,720
side property lines of your business
and also the time of the display that if

577
00:44:05,599 --> 00:44:11,920
you're open you can have it out if
you're closed it needs to be taken in

578
00:44:09,920 --> 00:44:16,240
are there any questions on
a-frame science yes i have several

579
00:44:14,079 --> 00:44:20,079
questions about this whole deal
nothing bad i just want to make sure

580
00:44:18,160 --> 00:44:23,280
we're clear because there is some a
little bit of verbage that i'm unclear

581
00:44:22,160 --> 00:44:25,920
on
so

582
00:44:24,079 --> 00:44:29,839
uh in
paragraph b

583
00:44:27,599 --> 00:44:33,839
it says one a-frame attended portable
sign should be permitted for each ground

584
00:44:31,440 --> 00:44:39,200
level business with an individual front
door entrance fronting a public street

585
00:44:40,640 --> 00:44:47,359
i guess my question is why does the
entrance have to front a public street

586
00:44:45,520 --> 00:44:53,680
and i could give two examples of
businesses that don't

587
00:44:49,520 --> 00:44:59,920
have a door fronting the public street
uh copies plus is one for example and

588
00:44:58,560 --> 00:45:03,680
not that it
has anything to do yeah thanks for

589
00:45:01,920 --> 00:45:07,280
bringing that up because i wanted i was
going to hesitate with that but my

590
00:45:05,200 --> 00:45:11,440
building doesn't have a door fronting
the public street at least not the

591
00:45:09,359 --> 00:45:14,560
regular entrance door
if we take a look at

592
00:45:15,520 --> 00:45:23,599
number
13 paragraph b

593
00:45:20,079 --> 00:45:28,319
that phrases the same thing a little bit
differently and i think would clarify

594
00:45:26,079 --> 00:45:33,680
that fronting of public street
or street level parking lot entry having

595
00:45:31,200 --> 00:45:38,800
frontage on a public or private street
pedestrian way plaza or open space

596
00:45:35,920 --> 00:45:43,440
subject to the following conditions
so

597
00:45:39,920 --> 00:45:48,800
i would prefer to see that particular
verbiage change to something like what

598
00:45:45,920 --> 00:45:53,280
is in what's 13b
does that make sense or if you can tell

599
00:45:51,280 --> 00:45:58,240
me
i mean if you can explain to me why

600
00:45:55,440 --> 00:46:01,280
that's phrased that way and if
that's going to create a problem if it's

601
00:46:00,000 --> 00:46:06,560
not going to create a problem we don't
need to fix it but i'm just wondering if

602
00:46:03,200 --> 00:46:10,480
it will i may defer to john but one of
the elements in this is that these signs

603
00:46:08,880 --> 00:46:17,280
are actually being placed in the public
right-of-way so we have to be very clear

604
00:46:13,040 --> 00:46:21,920
about not establishing a public forum
with these signs so being

605
00:46:19,280 --> 00:46:25,599
not being very restrictive on where they
can be placed and how they have to be

606
00:46:23,440 --> 00:46:32,480
observed and attended
protects the city as opposed to the

607
00:46:29,119 --> 00:46:36,079
projecting signs those signs do project
over the right-of-way to a certain

608
00:46:33,760 --> 00:46:41,839
degree with an agreement but they are
attached to the building

609
00:46:38,240 --> 00:46:45,200
and have less of a potential for being
alternately construed

610
00:46:43,680 --> 00:46:48,560
okay so so
my building would be a bad example of it

611
00:46:47,200 --> 00:46:52,560
of this particular thing that you're
talking about because i don't have that

612
00:46:50,640 --> 00:46:57,280
public right-of-way that area between
the sidewalk and the curb

613
00:46:54,319 --> 00:47:02,079
but copies plus does
and so can copies plus not put an

614
00:47:00,560 --> 00:47:05,119
a-frame sign
out there in the public right-of-way

615
00:47:03,440 --> 00:47:09,359
because their front door doesn't front
the street you see what i mean so do you

616
00:47:07,599 --> 00:47:12,319
normally put i mean if you were to put
up an a phrase sign you'd put it up

617
00:47:10,800 --> 00:47:16,640
behind the sidewalk is that what you're
saying well i would i would so it's

618
00:47:14,480 --> 00:47:20,720
irrelevant to me i'm just i was using my
building as an example of a building

619
00:47:18,720 --> 00:47:25,599
that doesn't have a
front street facing door but copies plus

620
00:47:24,400 --> 00:47:30,400
does have a
public right-of-way out on the street

621
00:47:28,079 --> 00:47:34,480
but they don't have a door facing the
street you see what i mean

622
00:47:32,240 --> 00:47:39,440
yeah and i think i mean what we're
trying to do here is keep the sign

623
00:47:36,160 --> 00:47:42,960
ordinance content neutral and so it's
it's something that we can make what

624
00:47:41,200 --> 00:47:47,040
you're trying to do happen we just need
to tweak a few things in here okay and

625
00:47:45,040 --> 00:47:51,359
that's fine i just want to make sure
that it works almost take out b all

626
00:47:49,440 --> 00:47:56,000
together and just include c and then
include those numbers uh just increase

627
00:47:53,520 --> 00:48:00,000
those numbers from 50 feet to like 150
feet and then that lets any ground level

628
00:47:58,800 --> 00:48:04,079
business
have a sign within 150 feet of their

629
00:48:02,400 --> 00:48:07,040
door whether it's
front facing or not

630
00:48:05,680 --> 00:48:10,800
but i mean then it comes back to you if
that's technically whether it's in front

631
00:48:08,559 --> 00:48:15,200
of their business or not either yes i
was thinking of this little strip mall

632
00:48:12,559 --> 00:48:18,240
uh by anytime fitness uh you know that
we're uh by reigns there's about eight

633
00:48:17,599 --> 00:48:23,760
or
none of those would be able to do it

634
00:48:19,839 --> 00:48:23,760
according to this so that's a good point

635
00:48:24,079 --> 00:48:30,880
yeah so i think it's it's a simple fix
that we could do fairly quickly this is

636
00:48:28,720 --> 00:48:34,400
just the basic of this is a radical
change from the side ordinance we've had

637
00:48:33,359 --> 00:48:37,680
in my opinion
i mean the whole thing i'm talking about

638
00:48:35,839 --> 00:48:43,280
the whole thing because for years the
city has fought businesses

639
00:48:40,720 --> 00:48:46,319
over the sign ordinance i mean it's it's
probably i think it was one of the most

640
00:48:44,720 --> 00:48:51,440
restrictive sign ordinances in the
valley and and this is a pretty radical

641
00:48:49,200 --> 00:48:55,440
change i'm not opposing it i'm just this
is monumental

642
00:48:53,200 --> 00:48:59,040
frankly yeah in fact
i think this is i think this is a great

643
00:48:57,280 --> 00:49:02,960
idea overall i think it's great i just
want some of these little details worked

644
00:49:00,640 --> 00:49:06,960
out so we're not getting confused and
there's you know problems in the future

645
00:49:08,559 --> 00:49:14,640
the other question i had was on uh
paragraph f

646
00:49:13,200 --> 00:49:18,000
line
eight is outline eight for business with

647
00:49:16,319 --> 00:49:22,160
a front setback
the sign shall be located in the front

648
00:49:20,720 --> 00:49:26,559
setback
so that means if a business has a front

649
00:49:24,960 --> 00:49:32,240
setback
uh like mine for example does that mean

650
00:49:29,839 --> 00:49:36,559
that the sign
can't go in the public right away it has

651
00:49:34,160 --> 00:49:40,480
to go in the front setback is that do i
understand that correctly

652
00:49:38,319 --> 00:49:45,520
yes that's how so if a business has a
front set back and a public right-of-way

653
00:49:42,640 --> 00:49:50,480
in front of it that business can't put
an a-frame sign in the public

654
00:49:47,680 --> 00:49:53,839
right-of-way right it has to be in okay
behind the walk okay i just wanted to

655
00:49:51,839 --> 00:49:59,280
make sure i was clear on that
and then uh the next lying down for

656
00:49:57,119 --> 00:50:03,200
businesses without a front set back so
that would be for example businesses

657
00:50:00,880 --> 00:50:08,720
here on historic main street where
they're right there that sign has to be

658
00:50:06,000 --> 00:50:12,720
it says it has to be adjacent
to the facade with a six foot wide

659
00:50:11,119 --> 00:50:18,000
clearance so the sign would have to be
up against the building to provide six

660
00:50:15,200 --> 00:50:23,520
feet between the sign and the curb and
gutter or within the park strip okay

661
00:50:22,000 --> 00:50:27,200
so it can either be
on the park strip side of the sidewalk

662
00:50:25,119 --> 00:50:31,200
or on the storefront side sidewalk as
long as there's a six foot

663
00:50:29,119 --> 00:50:34,480
clear
space in line parallel with the sidewalk

664
00:50:33,680 --> 00:50:36,880
okay
and then

665
00:50:36,960 --> 00:50:44,319
paragraph g the time of display it can
only be up during business hours

666
00:50:42,000 --> 00:50:48,319
if it's in the public right-of-way but
if it's in the front setback or on the

667
00:50:46,319 --> 00:50:53,920
business's property does that a-frame
sign still need to come down yes

668
00:50:50,880 --> 00:50:57,440
even if it's even if it's in the setback
or on the business's property not the

669
00:50:55,760 --> 00:51:01,280
public right away all those provisions
apply to a-frame signs generally so they

670
00:50:59,680 --> 00:51:05,760
they would all have to come down each
day okay and do they have to get a

671
00:51:03,200 --> 00:51:11,200
permit and pay a fee to have these i
didn't read that

672
00:51:07,680 --> 00:51:11,200
for a frame signs no

673
00:51:17,760 --> 00:51:23,040
we wanted to make it as easy as possible
for someone to stick out

674
00:51:21,359 --> 00:51:26,800
an a-frame sign and say come get some
fresh bagels or yeah because i i mean

675
00:51:25,280 --> 00:51:30,640
i've i've got a renter in my building
that puts an a-frame sign out by my

676
00:51:28,640 --> 00:51:33,680
building but it's on my property it's
not in the public right-of-way so that

677
00:51:32,240 --> 00:51:39,440
that's why i was kind of wondering about
was there a restriction on size yes i

678
00:51:37,119 --> 00:51:42,400
missed it 24 by 36
oh okay

679
00:51:40,640 --> 00:51:46,240
oh there we are yep sorry
that's a standard a-frame

680
00:51:44,160 --> 00:51:50,559
sorry
yeah so that's your face size i was just

681
00:51:48,880 --> 00:51:57,599
thinking of a variety up and down the
street it could be and right hand uh

682
00:51:55,040 --> 00:52:03,359
so that's your your sign face
but your frame size can be uh

683
00:52:00,640 --> 00:52:08,240
up to 27 inches wide and up to 47 inches
tall

684
00:52:04,880 --> 00:52:10,480
when when standing up so yep
okay

685
00:52:10,720 --> 00:52:14,640
very good any other questions on the
a-frame

686
00:52:15,200 --> 00:52:22,400
okay
vertical blade or marquee signs

687
00:52:20,400 --> 00:52:26,640
and this is not shameless pandering i
actually do like this one

688
00:52:24,960 --> 00:52:29,359
uh but the
mayor did actually mention this in a

689
00:52:28,240 --> 00:52:32,960
meeting
that

690
00:52:30,160 --> 00:52:36,720
the bank struggled significantly in
trying to make modifications to this

691
00:52:34,800 --> 00:52:40,720
sign i don't know whether it was for
repairs or to change it to central bank

692
00:52:38,640 --> 00:52:45,920
from springfield banking company
uh but that they really weren't able and

693
00:52:43,359 --> 00:52:49,920
had to replace it with that small box
that is up there and

694
00:52:47,760 --> 00:52:53,520
was i right that you would have rather
maintained the historic sign

695
00:52:51,920 --> 00:52:58,960
yep
so this

696
00:52:55,599 --> 00:53:03,599
amendment actually creates a
a sign type to permit these type of

697
00:53:00,720 --> 00:53:06,000
signs and provides allowances for them
and

698
00:53:04,480 --> 00:53:11,520
from my perspective i think they're
great because they provide interest and

699
00:53:08,480 --> 00:53:15,760
variety to the street front they reflect
a lot of historic sign types that we've

700
00:53:13,760 --> 00:53:19,680
had in town
all of our theaters had these type of

701
00:53:17,920 --> 00:53:21,520
signs
and

702
00:53:20,720 --> 00:53:25,920
they
really i think contribute to the

703
00:53:23,520 --> 00:53:29,520
to the interest and aesthetic quality of
downtown as long as it doesn't get out

704
00:53:28,000 --> 00:53:32,800
of hand and i think we've struck a good
balance here

705
00:53:31,599 --> 00:53:35,760
so they're permitted in all
non-residential science districts

706
00:53:34,559 --> 00:53:39,280
originally
uh we were think we were thinking you

707
00:53:37,680 --> 00:53:42,160
know shouldn't this just be like
downtown

708
00:53:40,559 --> 00:53:45,440
and that's kind of when waitrose came to
us and said well

709
00:53:43,920 --> 00:53:49,359
we'd love to have this on our little
cafe out here and we thought you know

710
00:53:48,079 --> 00:53:53,760
when we already have some other ones in
the city that may have not gotten

711
00:53:50,960 --> 00:53:57,280
permits that uh work well or if walmart
wanted to come put a vertical blade sign

712
00:53:55,359 --> 00:54:03,359
on the side of their building and have a
cool looking sign we just didn't see any

713
00:53:59,599 --> 00:54:07,760
reason not to restrict this from all the
commercial districts the people that

714
00:54:05,599 --> 00:54:12,319
fought and got the origin the
other sign company will have reasons and

715
00:54:10,640 --> 00:54:15,200
they'll come and talk to us about it
when we pass this

716
00:54:15,280 --> 00:54:21,920
say that again they they
were wanting to go to the park city

717
00:54:19,440 --> 00:54:24,800
model where everything's on the ground
small

718
00:54:22,960 --> 00:54:28,480
nothing up in the air
so this isn't permitting signs on polls

719
00:54:26,960 --> 00:54:33,440
at all no no
on buildings you know it i'm just saying

720
00:54:31,599 --> 00:54:39,799
okay those people will be here to tell
us the reasons why we shouldn't do it

721
00:54:36,799 --> 00:54:39,799
yeah

722
00:54:42,160 --> 00:54:47,920
what chris was saying is that there was
a group that promoted this for aesthetic

723
00:54:46,640 --> 00:54:51,119
reasons
and that

724
00:54:48,960 --> 00:54:55,839
were very adamant and this again this is
a major major change in signing

725
00:54:53,599 --> 00:54:59,040
and had enough clout to get it passed
right and pretty common across the

726
00:54:57,280 --> 00:55:03,760
country actually if you go up to
there's actually a push across the state

727
00:55:01,359 --> 00:55:07,200
to change some of these ordinances by uh
historic preservation groups and sign

728
00:55:05,119 --> 00:55:10,720
aficionados because there's so many from
the

729
00:55:08,319 --> 00:55:14,240
uh the noodle dragon
camera there's a noodle house in ogden

730
00:55:12,480 --> 00:55:17,839
that has an amazing sign
there's some stuff on main street and

731
00:55:16,640 --> 00:55:21,119
they're very hard to preserve because
you can't change the copy so if the

732
00:55:19,200 --> 00:55:25,680
business has changed and
you don't have that name anymore

733
00:55:23,280 --> 00:55:28,720
what you can do with the sign and most
cities actually moved away in an attempt

734
00:55:27,920 --> 00:55:32,960
to
de-clutter or kind of streamline

735
00:55:30,640 --> 00:55:35,839
downtowns a lot of these sign types were
taken out of codes actually very broadly

736
00:55:34,799 --> 00:55:39,920
across the country i like them
personally i thought because i thought i

737
00:55:38,400 --> 00:55:43,520
thought it was unfair that we had people
down on the freeway that were allowed 50

738
00:55:42,240 --> 00:55:47,440
feet or higher or whatever the number
was and the new ones coming in couldn't

739
00:55:45,359 --> 00:55:51,040
that didn't seem fair to me so i
thought you know let's make it

740
00:55:49,440 --> 00:55:55,280
so that everybody has equal chance at
advertising well there's a there's a

741
00:55:52,720 --> 00:55:58,640
level of novelty to this you know that
we're trying to maybe create for the

742
00:55:56,960 --> 00:56:02,799
city a little bit more so
so mayor if you put this blade sign back

743
00:56:00,640 --> 00:56:08,319
on the bank and also change the facade
back to this as well

744
00:56:05,359 --> 00:56:12,559
um that's the easiest change yeah what
i'm going to do is take the awnings off

745
00:56:09,839 --> 00:56:16,880
there's even a facade for that one and
there's always sandstone yeah like the

746
00:56:14,400 --> 00:56:20,799
reynolds building i'll let josh address
that

747
00:56:18,880 --> 00:56:25,520
there is talk about this one's still
here and it's

748
00:56:22,480 --> 00:56:29,119
intact so it's yes it's the easy sell
right

749
00:56:27,040 --> 00:56:33,280
uh
this also deals with location and

750
00:56:30,880 --> 00:56:36,720
projection requirements height and area
allowances it's really counted as part

751
00:56:35,280 --> 00:56:40,400
of your wall sign
so you can't have a huge wall sign and a

752
00:56:38,880 --> 00:56:44,400
huge blade sign you kind of have to make
a decision

753
00:56:42,640 --> 00:56:48,880
so that those are the elements
about uh the projecting

754
00:56:46,880 --> 00:56:52,799
uh we renamed it from projecting science
to projecting vertical blade or key

755
00:56:50,799 --> 00:56:59,480
signs and if there's any questions about
the specific language that you have in

756
00:56:54,880 --> 00:56:59,480
your report i'm happy to address those

757
00:57:02,880 --> 00:57:06,799
all right
well

758
00:57:05,040 --> 00:57:09,760
i'm not done yet you're not done wait
until he's i mean

759
00:57:08,079 --> 00:57:13,040
i'm free you if you feel like making a
motion you don't have a tv

760
00:57:16,000 --> 00:57:23,359
so the the size of the sign can't be
over 12 square feet is that right uh

761
00:57:21,680 --> 00:57:28,240
i read that right
that's in oh i'm sorry i'm on the wrong

762
00:57:25,119 --> 00:57:33,119
one i'm on 13. yeah so it's it's just
what you do the calculation for wall

763
00:57:30,160 --> 00:57:38,799
sign area and you can use that
within your uh

764
00:57:36,079 --> 00:57:41,839
projection and you have to be at least
uh

765
00:57:39,760 --> 00:57:44,640
seven feet above or something
yeah you can't

766
00:57:49,359 --> 00:57:55,040
it can only project a maximum of seven
feet and it has to meet the clearance

767
00:57:52,839 --> 00:58:01,720
requirements uh in this other section
which is essentially i think saying

768
00:57:57,200 --> 00:58:01,720
i think it's 10 feet in 116305

769
00:58:01,839 --> 00:58:06,640
sorry i'd have to go back to that
section but it does it references

770
00:58:04,960 --> 00:58:09,839
another section for the minimum ground
clearance on those

771
00:58:12,240 --> 00:58:17,680
the
last category is these projecting

772
00:58:14,799 --> 00:58:21,040
storefront signs which interestingly on
our

773
00:58:18,960 --> 00:58:24,000
community board walk the other night i
noticed or getting ready for that that

774
00:58:22,720 --> 00:58:28,880
we actually have one now we didn't
really have any this new boutique

775
00:58:26,960 --> 00:58:31,680
that's occupying the former jackson's
whole store

776
00:58:30,400 --> 00:58:36,000
is that april
the poetic boutique has a cute little

777
00:58:34,799 --> 00:58:39,440
projecting projecting storefront sign
that they mounted up

778
00:58:37,599 --> 00:58:42,319
and if uh
what we're proposing here would actually

779
00:58:40,799 --> 00:58:47,040
make that legal and provide some
regulations for those

780
00:58:44,000 --> 00:58:49,280
these are really great signs
to

781
00:58:47,760 --> 00:58:52,559
increase
the pedestrian friendliness of downtown

782
00:58:51,040 --> 00:58:56,559
to make it interesting charming all
those kind of small town things we're

783
00:58:53,760 --> 00:58:59,839
looking for it really is the
the evolution of hanging out your

784
00:58:57,920 --> 00:59:03,680
shingle putting out a little bracket and
hanging a piece of wood on it with your

785
00:59:01,440 --> 00:59:06,720
name
and

786
00:59:05,200 --> 00:59:12,240
they provide a lot of interest and
additional ability to communicate to

787
00:59:09,280 --> 00:59:17,200
people that are
people-sized and walking speed in front

788
00:59:14,960 --> 00:59:21,040
of your business
again on these we regulate the number of

789
00:59:19,359 --> 00:59:24,240
signs uh
the location of those signs their ground

790
00:59:23,200 --> 00:59:29,040
clearance
these are can be down to eight feet

791
00:59:27,200 --> 00:59:33,040
uh their area
dimensions there's a

792
00:59:30,960 --> 00:59:37,760
total area in a maximum dimension so you
can kind of play with the the shape or

793
00:59:35,520 --> 00:59:42,880
aspect ratio of your signs
and then it governs the maximum

794
00:59:39,599 --> 00:59:48,079
projection from the building as well
can they be lit

795
00:59:44,319 --> 00:59:52,319
they can be lit uh
the lighting i we actually added one

796
00:59:50,480 --> 00:59:55,040
element to the lighting from since
planning commission that i noted in your

797
00:59:53,599 --> 00:59:59,599
staff report they can be either
internally or externally lit but this

798
00:59:57,440 --> 01:00:04,559
any external lighting has to be directed
uh shielded and directed only onto the

799
01:00:01,599 --> 01:00:09,680
sign and the lighting has to be uh
static it can't be animated

800
01:00:07,359 --> 01:00:13,359
uh flashing move there can't be chasing
or running lights there can't be neon

801
01:00:11,680 --> 01:00:17,839
that turns on and off it has to just be
a steady state

802
01:00:14,960 --> 01:00:22,640
uh light so if you're ever in provo
there's some ins there's some uh

803
01:00:19,680 --> 01:00:27,280
examples that are essentially box signs
that have uh translucent faces on them

804
01:00:25,359 --> 01:00:30,400
there's some that are
signs like you see here and they just

805
01:00:28,960 --> 01:00:35,440
have small little
led lights that shine down on them

806
01:00:33,119 --> 01:00:40,000
or there's a couple that did have some
uh neon on them but it's all static as

807
01:00:38,079 --> 01:00:44,400
long as you can stay within the you
can't have a 10 inch thick cabinet it

808
01:00:41,680 --> 01:00:47,920
has to still stay pretty thin
so

809
01:00:45,280 --> 01:00:52,079
so i think i read someplace that the
cabinet on this style has to be no

810
01:00:50,319 --> 01:00:55,200
greater than six inches is that correct
was that what this was on these kinds

811
01:00:54,160 --> 01:00:59,200
yeah the
signs including the cabinet should not

812
01:00:56,720 --> 01:01:03,760
be more than six inches yeah okay but
external lighting doesn't count towards

813
01:01:00,880 --> 01:01:07,760
that right six inches
so you could have like two flood lights

814
01:01:06,000 --> 01:01:11,839
or spotlights that have a little hood on
them or whatever

815
01:01:08,880 --> 01:01:11,839
exactly

816
01:01:12,319 --> 01:01:17,280
and then there's a whole harmless
agreement

817
01:01:15,520 --> 01:01:19,520
required
with the city to be able to hang

818
01:01:18,559 --> 01:01:22,720
something essentially over the
right-of-way if it does come over the

819
01:01:21,359 --> 01:01:27,760
right-of-way
and the messages are limited again to

820
01:01:24,960 --> 01:01:32,240
on-premise messages you can't hang out a
somebody else's shingle

821
01:01:30,079 --> 01:01:35,359
and the uh
the type of the sign it can't be an

822
01:01:33,680 --> 01:01:39,839
electronic display sign or a changeable
message sign

823
01:01:37,520 --> 01:01:39,839
and

824
01:01:41,599 --> 01:01:46,480
that that are all the elements that we
added into those and we hope that

825
01:01:45,040 --> 01:01:51,200
they'll be
well used and hopefully we can go out to

826
01:01:48,480 --> 01:01:55,599
hubble creek square as well and see
some great signage adding to the

827
01:01:52,640 --> 01:01:55,599
character that project

828
01:01:57,039 --> 01:02:04,880
okay questions for josh that's awesome
i like it because i have missed the

829
01:02:02,799 --> 01:02:10,000
a-frame
on our city parks

830
01:02:07,039 --> 01:02:14,400
advertising um
we had a big discussion about that very

831
01:02:12,400 --> 01:02:17,839
about that very thing when we were doing
the sign ordinance

832
01:02:16,000 --> 01:02:21,920
and it was we're going to ban a-frame
signs but the city can have it

833
01:02:20,559 --> 01:02:25,839
there's like
no it's either

834
01:02:23,280 --> 01:02:30,079
yeah we either allow it or we don't and
so i like that we are i think it's great

835
01:02:28,160 --> 01:02:34,640
i really have missed him i think it's
really hometown and awesome

836
01:02:32,559 --> 01:02:38,079
so thank you but these a-frames are
quite a bit smaller than what the cities

837
01:02:36,240 --> 01:02:42,160
used to be these are just
26

838
01:02:39,119 --> 01:02:46,000
26 or 24 by 36 signs so it's not like
the big ones that we use i know

839
01:02:44,400 --> 01:02:51,119
and maybe someday we'll be able to have
the big ones too jason did you have a

840
01:02:48,720 --> 01:02:54,480
question yeah john the changes that mike
was talking about those require some

841
01:02:52,480 --> 01:02:57,839
kind of amendment we need to
put that into the motion well actually

842
01:02:56,319 --> 01:03:01,359
we'll need to change the ordinance the
ordinance has to be

843
01:02:59,680 --> 01:03:05,440
uh worded correctly in front of the
council uh before you kind of pass it in

844
01:03:04,000 --> 01:03:09,680
a meeting so i would have to actually go
upstairs and type it in so on that what

845
01:03:08,400 --> 01:03:13,680
mike because i think what mike said is
probably a pretty good idea to where we

846
01:03:11,039 --> 01:03:18,880
take what is it section 13 and replacing
we can just probably just strike b and

847
01:03:15,760 --> 01:03:21,680
that accomplishes strike b
for john's recommendation

848
01:03:20,720 --> 01:03:27,680
what's that
strike uh 3b

849
01:03:25,119 --> 01:03:30,640
well we could
but we're still not gonna i think get to

850
01:03:29,680 --> 01:03:36,000
where
councilman nelson wants to be i think he

851
01:03:32,640 --> 01:03:39,440
wants to probably be more than 50 feet i
mean if you were to look at some of

852
01:03:37,280 --> 01:03:44,640
these well yeah i mean if you look at
for example copies plus they set way

853
01:03:41,680 --> 01:03:44,640
back exactly

854
01:03:46,240 --> 01:03:51,039
but he has that whole building so he
should be able to put that sign out

855
01:03:49,839 --> 01:03:54,480
there to
so if you wanted to continue this josh

856
01:03:52,960 --> 01:03:57,520
actually has this on his computer we
could do his i could give him the

857
01:03:56,000 --> 01:04:01,200
language and then he can run up and
change and bring it back is it critical

858
01:03:59,200 --> 01:04:04,880
to have it done today i don't think it's
critical to have it done today but i not

859
01:04:03,119 --> 01:04:08,079
opposed to that but if it doesn't make
any difference to wait two weeks i mean

860
01:04:06,240 --> 01:04:11,680
how much time does it take to change it
that's it doesn't matter

861
01:04:09,920 --> 01:04:16,160
the other alternative is to move to the
next item on the wetlands and let you do

862
01:04:14,240 --> 01:04:19,920
your thing with the ordinance so
the problem is is it's actually on his

863
01:04:18,160 --> 01:04:24,839
computer oh nice and i can't get into
where he is

864
01:04:22,000 --> 01:04:26,000
there we go we can do
service always trying to get us

865
01:04:25,359 --> 01:04:26,000
all impervious

866
01:04:27,839 --> 01:04:32,319
sometimes i feel like an impervious
surface

867
01:04:31,119 --> 01:04:34,960
okay
we'll uh

868
01:04:35,039 --> 01:04:41,039
we'll
bring this back here in just a few

869
01:04:37,599 --> 01:04:45,760
minutes so okay we'll let you do that
okay brad if we'll let you uh

870
01:04:44,160 --> 01:04:48,880
address this in relationship to
impervious surface

871
01:04:51,200 --> 01:04:57,039
so over the past year or so we've been
talking about stormwater

872
01:04:55,200 --> 01:05:02,079
and we're just
tweaking a few things to get it

873
01:04:59,359 --> 01:05:05,200
exactly right
the last time we went with the council

874
01:05:03,359 --> 01:05:09,599
we were talking more about impervious
surface and billings we actually sent

875
01:05:07,200 --> 01:05:13,119
out about 458 billions
and we've got less than 10 responses

876
01:05:11,839 --> 01:05:15,839
back
of customers that we're a little bit

877
01:05:14,400 --> 01:05:19,119
frustrated because of the way we're
billing and the way we're calculating

878
01:05:17,440 --> 01:05:22,559
impervious service so we feel that's
really good percentage

879
01:05:21,280 --> 01:05:25,520
but we did find something that we
thought we might want to change just to

880
01:05:24,079 --> 01:05:29,359
make it a little bit more
equitable to our citizens

881
01:05:28,000 --> 01:05:33,359
and so what we're doing is we're
actually going through and

882
01:05:31,200 --> 01:05:37,200
looking at the current code that gives
me the opportunity to give up to a 35

883
01:05:35,359 --> 01:05:40,960
percent reduction
in their original billing

884
01:05:39,119 --> 01:05:44,799
for a couple criteria and those two
criteria that they exceed the city's

885
01:05:42,480 --> 01:05:48,240
stormwater development standards
and or

886
01:05:46,240 --> 01:05:52,960
if they reduce the city's downstream
cost in providing stormwater capacity so

887
01:05:50,720 --> 01:05:56,400
in layman's terms what that means is if
they're able to keep some of that storm

888
01:05:54,480 --> 01:06:00,720
water on their property
permanently then we don't have to have

889
01:05:58,319 --> 01:06:04,160
bigger pipes down the line right
and or if they're doing something on

890
01:06:02,319 --> 01:06:09,119
site that makes it so that that storm
water is not leaving or it's coming off

891
01:06:06,559 --> 01:06:13,039
in a much slower than than we recommend
in our standards bleeding off into the

892
01:06:11,280 --> 01:06:16,400
system so we want to be able to give
them

893
01:06:14,240 --> 01:06:16,400
a

894
01:06:17,280 --> 01:06:25,039
reduction i lost the word so so what
what would that mean if you're holding

895
01:06:22,720 --> 01:06:27,760
storm water i mean how do you retain
that

896
01:06:26,079 --> 01:06:31,440
well we we'll talk about that as we go
into it oh okay so there we go jumping

897
01:06:29,599 --> 01:06:37,599
ahead again yeah
i need to send you my presentation

898
01:06:35,520 --> 01:06:40,799
so so the proposed action that we have
here is to

899
01:06:38,880 --> 01:06:45,920
allow an additional
so beyond the 35 i can give to allow the

900
01:06:43,920 --> 01:06:49,839
seat administrator to give up to 30
percent more

901
01:06:47,920 --> 01:06:53,680
reduction in their fee and we'll go
through and talk a little bit about that

902
01:06:51,359 --> 01:06:56,079
right now the current code states this
and i left it blank in the middle

903
01:06:54,960 --> 01:06:58,839
because we're going to fill that in with
new language

904
01:06:57,200 --> 01:07:02,960
but literally if they don't like my
decision then the code says they can go

905
01:07:01,119 --> 01:07:07,119
to the city administrator and say we
don't like his decision and this is why

906
01:07:05,520 --> 01:07:10,559
but the code doesn't say what the city
administrator can do it just says he can

907
01:07:09,359 --> 01:07:14,000
listen to it
right

908
01:07:11,520 --> 01:07:17,280
and so what i what i'm suggesting here
is that we put this language in here

909
01:07:15,440 --> 01:07:20,960
that gives the seat administrator the
ability to hear

910
01:07:19,119 --> 01:07:25,200
the arguments of the person that wants
to have this greater reduction

911
01:07:23,599 --> 01:07:29,520
and go through and get any information
and it allows this administrator to go

912
01:07:26,880 --> 01:07:33,440
up to 30 percent more
in the fee reduction

913
01:07:31,680 --> 01:07:37,440
and the reason for doing that is is
because the fee itself isn't totally

914
01:07:36,000 --> 01:07:42,000
based on what they're doing on their
property and in fact

915
01:07:40,079 --> 01:07:46,319
i wanted to bring this up this is the
actual code language for the paragraph

916
01:07:44,319 --> 01:07:51,119
and it tells the city that we need to we
need to impose this fee on all on all

917
01:07:48,960 --> 01:07:54,480
real property within the city
and the way we've taken that is all

918
01:07:52,880 --> 01:07:58,880
developed real property we're not
charging fields or anything like that

919
01:07:56,480 --> 01:08:01,839
for storm water but with that it says
that the fee

920
01:08:00,000 --> 01:08:07,200
is going to fund administration so the
other things that we have to do that's

921
01:08:03,760 --> 01:08:11,920
been put on us by the state through fema
to make us do this storm water stuff

922
01:08:09,680 --> 01:08:15,280
and so there still needs to be a fee on
every parcel even if they keep it on

923
01:08:14,240 --> 01:08:18,960
their
property all the way does that make

924
01:08:16,960 --> 01:08:24,319
sense and some people do that for
example the old prior dairy has a whole

925
01:08:21,839 --> 01:08:28,799
bunch of concrete areas but they all
drain into us into a pond that's on site

926
01:08:27,839 --> 01:08:31,679
and so
this person is saying

927
01:08:30,480 --> 01:08:35,359
i'm nodding
i'm not

928
01:08:32,719 --> 01:08:40,000
having to go off into the area and for
me to give just a 35 reduction we

929
01:08:38,000 --> 01:08:43,279
thought maybe that's not the right
amount that we should be reducing it and

930
01:08:41,679 --> 01:08:47,359
that's why we're bringing this the other
reason is because it gives a second step

931
01:08:45,679 --> 01:08:52,239
for somebody to have an appeal beyond
what i'm doing and it allows the

932
01:08:49,679 --> 01:08:56,400
administrator to to hear that and give
the appropriate amount to and realize i

933
01:08:54,560 --> 01:08:59,920
don't always just give 35
if it's we look at how much is being

934
01:08:58,239 --> 01:09:04,480
held and what they're doing we might
only give them 10 percent reduction

935
01:09:02,000 --> 01:09:09,040
does that make sense yep and so that's
the whole point of this discussion

936
01:09:06,719 --> 01:09:12,319
so where did those uh how are those
percentages

937
01:09:10,480 --> 01:09:16,239
uh derived i mean
we look at the stormwater flow that's

938
01:09:13,839 --> 01:09:22,000
coming off and based on the system
whatever they're using and so forth i

939
01:09:18,159 --> 01:09:26,480
think what he's asking is 65 why not 90
or 100

940
01:09:23,040 --> 01:09:31,520
yeah i mean why is it 35 instead of 45
and 30 instead of 50 or whatever it

941
01:09:29,440 --> 01:09:34,480
might be well my reductions of 35 came
about because that's the way the code's

942
01:09:32,880 --> 01:09:38,080
been written forever
what i when i talked with troy about

943
01:09:36,319 --> 01:09:41,920
this i thought and again i brought back
the fact that we're spending money on

944
01:09:39,759 --> 01:09:46,400
administrative stuff too trying to keep
the storm water going so everybody

945
01:09:43,679 --> 01:09:50,880
should pay and that's what the code says
we could go different than 30 we could

946
01:09:48,560 --> 01:09:54,640
say that the administrator could have
40 more percent if we wanted to go no

947
01:09:52,880 --> 01:09:58,880
i'm not suggesting that we do that i'm
just asking where the numbers came from

948
01:09:56,719 --> 01:10:02,320
so that i had some understanding of how
it was calculated

949
01:10:00,640 --> 01:10:06,640
so again we look at the flow that's
coming off of the parcel so remember we

950
01:10:04,640 --> 01:10:10,640
had all this discussion about this was
it a year or two ago well it was

951
01:10:08,320 --> 01:10:14,480
actually a year ago a year ago
so are we saying that when we approved

952
01:10:13,520 --> 01:10:18,320
it
that we

953
01:10:15,840 --> 01:10:22,480
over approved it by about 35 percent if
you're able to get 65 percent

954
01:10:20,880 --> 01:10:26,480
no that's not working actually basically
said that we didn't put a provision in

955
01:10:24,400 --> 01:10:31,040
there that they could appeal brad's
decision and go to troy

956
01:10:28,640 --> 01:10:35,679
and get it heard and that he had his
guard rails that said you can only give

957
01:10:33,040 --> 01:10:39,280
so much if you so choose to do that
guard drills were the same as his

958
01:10:37,199 --> 01:10:45,040
guardrails i could just verify whether
he'd acted correctly or not so brad's

959
01:10:42,640 --> 01:10:47,520
brad in talking to the existing people i
think has

960
01:10:46,159 --> 01:10:52,159
come
across some circumstances where he

961
01:10:50,320 --> 01:10:58,320
believes it would be better to give
something greater than 35 and this is

962
01:10:54,719 --> 01:11:03,360
the mechanism he's recommending
yeah that's good but i mean given we've

963
01:11:01,040 --> 01:11:08,000
we've had you know just one or two
percent even raised questions about the

964
01:11:06,000 --> 01:11:10,640
rates within that one or two percent
they're people that are raising issues

965
01:11:09,600 --> 01:11:15,360
that say
maybe something in excess of 35 would be

966
01:11:13,120 --> 01:11:19,040
fair
okay i'm glad we have a mechanism

967
01:11:17,520 --> 01:11:23,520
because i think
it was a lively discussion back then

968
01:11:21,199 --> 01:11:27,920
that was the same well
it was that it's such a small piece but

969
01:11:26,320 --> 01:11:31,280
you know boy you poke a bear and he
comes around

970
01:11:29,679 --> 01:11:36,239
there are some smaller businesses with
pretty good sized lots that

971
01:11:33,280 --> 01:11:40,159
really hits into their ability to make
certain pain you know right when you get

972
01:11:38,400 --> 01:11:43,120
into hundreds of dollars for a small
business we need a motion what do we

973
01:11:41,440 --> 01:11:47,920
need we do yep
okay

974
01:11:44,640 --> 01:11:47,920
ordinance it's number 11.

975
01:11:48,320 --> 01:11:54,400
anybody anybody oh hey okay well okay
there you go i'll go ahead and do it

976
01:11:52,239 --> 01:12:01,440
yeah consideration of an ordinance
amending title four dash chapter 12.

977
01:11:58,400 --> 01:12:04,960
where i might always read the wrong one
you just need to do the motion

978
01:12:02,560 --> 01:12:10,800
underneath that i have
a motion to approve ordinance number

979
01:12:08,120 --> 01:12:15,040
09-2022 amending springville city code
title 4 chapter 12 paragraph 109

980
01:12:13,199 --> 01:12:18,159
granting the city administrator
authority authority to award as

981
01:12:17,040 --> 01:12:22,800
appropriate
an impervious surface stormwater fee

982
01:12:20,640 --> 01:12:26,159
service credit okay i have a motion any
questions on the motion

983
01:12:24,719 --> 01:12:31,600
okay i need a second
i'll second one second by uh mayor

984
01:12:29,440 --> 01:12:34,320
mayor councilman snelson we have a roll
call vote

985
01:12:32,880 --> 01:12:39,840
kale is
yes chris yes mike yes jason yes craig

986
01:12:38,400 --> 01:12:43,280
yes okay
motion passes

987
01:12:42,159 --> 01:12:48,000
are we
can you yeah if you'd like me to move to

988
01:12:45,760 --> 01:12:51,840
number 12 i think i'm close enough to
this that i can do it i probably won't

989
01:12:49,520 --> 01:12:56,400
do everything john would do he's been
the primary negotiator with the

990
01:12:53,840 --> 01:13:01,920
springville high school campus site plan
and the associated work done with this

991
01:12:59,520 --> 01:13:04,800
some time ago the city council
approved

992
01:13:03,440 --> 01:13:09,120
an agreement
for some exchange of of land and how

993
01:13:07,920 --> 01:13:12,480
things were going to happen with the new
high school site

994
01:13:10,719 --> 01:13:17,920
that
has been a good framework to work with

995
01:13:14,960 --> 01:13:22,960
but as we've gotten into the specifics
and looking for ways to bring value to

996
01:13:20,000 --> 01:13:26,640
the community by working collaboratively
with the school district there have been

997
01:13:24,560 --> 01:13:31,280
substantial changes to the site that
you're seeing before you

998
01:13:28,719 --> 01:13:35,520
the school has rotated around and
instead of facing southeast now faces

999
01:13:33,760 --> 01:13:40,320
northeast and has moved significantly
north on the site

1000
01:13:36,960 --> 01:13:44,560
and that has changed substantially
the properties the city needs to

1001
01:13:41,760 --> 01:13:49,120
dedicate and how the finances work
um so john's kind of negotiated through

1002
01:13:46,960 --> 01:13:54,159
this at the staff level
it meets my approval as well um strongly

1003
01:13:52,480 --> 01:13:57,760
feel that this is
heavily

1004
01:13:55,199 --> 01:14:02,400
awaited really in the city's favor
although i would also say we've done a

1005
01:14:00,000 --> 01:14:06,880
lot of things that help them financially
as well with with regard to it but just

1006
01:14:04,960 --> 01:14:11,600
on the nuts and bolts
it's a great deal for the city the

1007
01:14:09,520 --> 01:14:15,360
school district is considering this
tomorrow night on their board meeting

1008
01:14:14,080 --> 01:14:19,520
what what
would happen here is springville city

1009
01:14:18,239 --> 01:14:24,640
would
give up the spring acres

1010
01:14:21,760 --> 01:14:28,880
lower arts park that's shown in yellow
in the center of the screen there you

1011
01:14:26,719 --> 01:14:32,480
can see the existing site is it's hard
to read because there's there's the new

1012
01:14:31,040 --> 01:14:37,920
site there's the existing site and all
these colors on here but if you squint

1013
01:14:35,120 --> 01:14:42,400
at it it really starts at the driving
range or the parking lot for the arts

1014
01:14:39,840 --> 01:14:47,440
park and heads west
is the property that would be dedicated

1015
01:14:45,360 --> 01:14:53,360
over to the school district
in return for that springville city

1016
01:14:50,000 --> 01:14:58,480
would receive this open space at the
northeast corner

1017
01:14:55,760 --> 01:15:03,120
the school district would dedicate at
for no compensation the light blue area

1018
01:15:01,520 --> 01:15:08,960
which is the hillside that really has
little value to either party

1019
01:15:05,679 --> 01:15:13,040
the other green parcels would all also
generally come to springville city

1020
01:15:10,960 --> 01:15:18,400
including the anticipation of receiving
the oak ridge building

1021
01:15:15,600 --> 01:15:22,400
which is a roughly 15 year old
well-constructed and well-maintained

1022
01:15:20,880 --> 01:15:27,520
classroom building but also has
multi-use space and office space in it

1023
01:15:25,760 --> 01:15:32,560
the green space
as things continue to move will include

1024
01:15:29,920 --> 01:15:36,880
eight tennis courts six of those would
be owned and maintained by the school

1025
01:15:34,960 --> 01:15:41,520
district two by the city
um

1026
01:15:38,400 --> 01:15:45,679
and then in addition to that this the
city would give up

1027
01:15:43,440 --> 01:15:49,840
one of its softball fields to the
district to balance the

1028
01:15:48,080 --> 01:15:53,840
kind of the scoresheet or the finances
with regard to that but the school

1029
01:15:52,000 --> 01:15:58,640
district would completely rebuild the
pony league field

1030
01:15:56,000 --> 01:16:02,800
and both softball fields and the city
would still have access to both those

1031
01:16:01,040 --> 01:16:08,080
softball fields through the inner local
agreement and to all eight south or all

1032
01:16:04,800 --> 01:16:12,239
eight tennis courts for that matter
we still have the ability to to have

1033
01:16:10,480 --> 01:16:16,960
discussions about how these parks will
be developed and look in terms of

1034
01:16:14,560 --> 01:16:19,920
amenities and parking lots and so forth
with

1035
01:16:17,920 --> 01:16:22,480
regard to that and then i don't know
that i saw

1036
01:16:21,199 --> 01:16:25,280
john
adding to that

1037
01:16:24,159 --> 01:16:29,280
um
but

1038
01:16:27,280 --> 01:16:35,679
yeah here at the bottom of what he
projected here there's also two parcels

1039
01:16:33,199 --> 01:16:39,280
not shown on the campus site plan they
are in your staff report but in picture

1040
01:16:38,239 --> 01:16:45,040
version
but the city would receive 1.45 acres at

1041
01:16:41,920 --> 01:16:50,320
memorial park that's the grass area
west of the balf diamonds at memorial

1042
01:16:47,679 --> 01:16:54,239
park an additional 1.85 acres at
meadowbrook elementary

1043
01:16:52,480 --> 01:17:00,239
which is where our pickleball courts
currently are and

1044
01:16:56,600 --> 01:17:03,600
150 foot wide strip all the way north to
seventh south

1045
01:17:01,920 --> 01:17:08,080
so um
those are the items for that and mr

1046
01:17:05,920 --> 01:17:11,760
penrod's here and can finish it if he
needs to

1047
01:17:09,280 --> 01:17:15,840
does this oh sorry chris go ahead
one question i don't quite understand

1048
01:17:13,760 --> 01:17:19,600
unless it's just that we have use of it
i don't know why we would split the

1049
01:17:17,520 --> 01:17:22,400
maintenance and ownership of the tennis
courts i'd say either let the school

1050
01:17:20,960 --> 01:17:26,239
district own them or
i unless that's

1051
01:17:24,719 --> 01:17:29,840
i think there's two reasons one is
they're worried about having eight

1052
01:17:27,679 --> 01:17:33,440
tennis courts there because for most of
the high schools have only built six is

1053
01:17:32,000 --> 01:17:36,560
what they've told us and the other one
is

1054
01:17:34,239 --> 01:17:40,560
uh we're trying to keep up with uh what
we're supposed to keep up with in our

1055
01:17:37,840 --> 01:17:45,840
master plan uh based upon the iffp and
ifa that we just went through and passed

1056
01:17:43,199 --> 01:17:50,560
and they just want six but we want to
have our programming also needs at least

1057
01:17:48,480 --> 01:17:55,440
eight um we're filling actually the
double session where stacy went the

1058
01:17:53,520 --> 01:18:00,000
eight tennis courts we have currently at
the spring acres arts park and the high

1059
01:17:57,440 --> 01:18:04,400
school so they our staff would really
like to see eight the alternative would

1060
01:18:02,239 --> 01:18:09,280
be to just let the district build six
we'd still have access to the six and

1061
01:18:06,719 --> 01:18:13,280
and we could use the the dollar value of
the remaining two tennis courts and

1062
01:18:11,199 --> 01:18:16,159
other improvements within the facility
my thought i don't think we should

1063
01:18:14,640 --> 01:18:19,440
reduce the number i think it's great to
have eight but

1064
01:18:17,520 --> 01:18:23,600
but the the maintenance goes along with
that i don't know if through interlocal

1065
01:18:21,199 --> 01:18:27,040
right they can just assume that because
that's going to be weird that cover

1066
01:18:25,679 --> 01:18:30,320
let's take care of two and then take
care of six it just doesn't make sense

1067
01:18:28,800 --> 01:18:33,600
to me with the people we've worked with
so far at the district and it could

1068
01:18:32,159 --> 01:18:38,000
change in the future we've been pretty
good at uh working out maintenance costs

1069
01:18:35,600 --> 01:18:42,719
so when they've redone theirs uh we've
actually helped out with the percentage

1070
01:18:40,400 --> 01:18:46,960
of where we have of a facility so it has
worked pretty well i would stress to try

1071
01:18:45,600 --> 01:18:50,560
to do it yeah we can certainly raise
that issue i mean to me that's an

1072
01:18:48,480 --> 01:18:54,080
operational issue that we can can work
through yeah i think

1073
01:18:52,000 --> 01:18:57,280
but that i understand now why eight
that's what i think case we wanted to

1074
01:18:55,520 --> 01:19:00,880
make sure we had two right we wanted to
keep keep uh the same number of courts

1075
01:18:59,600 --> 01:19:04,719
available for the public and i know
there was a conflict before with city

1076
01:19:03,600 --> 01:19:10,560
residents
wanting to use the ones we kind of had

1077
01:19:09,120 --> 01:19:14,080
up there but we let the high school use
them and this high school used them in

1078
01:19:12,159 --> 01:19:17,679
the morning and people were showing up
to use them in the high school classes

1079
01:19:15,600 --> 01:19:21,440
were out there so
that figure in here too right and it

1080
01:19:19,760 --> 01:19:26,159
does from exactly what john's talking
about which says we're supposed to have

1081
01:19:23,120 --> 01:19:29,679
a certain number of publicly available
and accessible courts for our own

1082
01:19:28,239 --> 01:19:34,719
utilization so that's something we'll
have to watch as well yeah

1083
01:19:32,400 --> 01:19:37,280
did you go over improvements as well
uh

1084
01:19:35,520 --> 01:19:40,880
this last slide you know and i can just
do it on the map because that's kind of

1085
01:19:38,880 --> 01:19:44,239
hard to read if you want me to
um i did not go through those okay yeah

1086
01:19:42,960 --> 01:19:48,159
you'd be happy
while you're switching over

1087
01:19:46,000 --> 01:19:51,199
you know the pond that's on spring acres
what's going to happen to that is that

1088
01:19:49,600 --> 01:19:55,520
what what's the purpose of that in the
first place and then what's going to

1089
01:19:52,719 --> 01:19:55,520
happen to it when this

1090
01:20:03,280 --> 01:20:08,159
current hole
is

1091
01:20:05,840 --> 01:20:12,560
whether or not and how to continue to
allow secondary watering to occur which

1092
01:20:10,320 --> 01:20:12,560
is the

1093
01:20:15,800 --> 01:20:22,159
purpose down there
my understanding is again they're doing

1094
01:20:20,560 --> 01:20:26,000
all the engineering my understanding is
they put a box there

1095
01:20:24,320 --> 01:20:30,080
that would allow some secondary watering
to still happen for that but it would

1096
01:20:27,520 --> 01:20:33,360
happen contained in underground
they've had some conversation about

1097
01:20:31,440 --> 01:20:37,920
leaving it open with various designs but
i think most currently they're gonna

1098
01:20:35,199 --> 01:20:42,159
cover it up um reduce it but still are
investigating secondary watering

1099
01:20:40,800 --> 01:20:47,199
okay
yeah

1100
01:20:43,920 --> 01:20:52,080
and then with respect to improvements uh
that's in this second joint uh

1101
01:20:49,600 --> 01:20:57,360
resolution uh the school issue will come
in and improve all of uh the pony field

1102
01:20:55,120 --> 01:20:59,199
and both of the softball fields uh they
will

1103
01:20:58,159 --> 01:21:02,800
then
retain the softball field that's here in

1104
01:21:01,520 --> 01:21:06,880
purple
the snack shack they will put at least

1105
01:21:05,280 --> 01:21:11,520
150 000
worth uh to renovate that a little bit

1106
01:21:10,320 --> 01:21:15,840
um
and then

1107
01:21:12,639 --> 01:21:15,840
they also

1108
01:21:16,080 --> 01:21:21,760
will put in
new plane lights and they will put in

1109
01:21:19,600 --> 01:21:27,760
new turf around the fields
on the north green property up here

1110
01:21:24,639 --> 01:21:32,960
roughly 5.15 acres so you're looking
basically like this we'll end up with

1111
01:21:30,639 --> 01:21:37,199
turf irrigation trees
so it'll be landscaped and then there's

1112
01:21:35,040 --> 01:21:41,520
going to be a parking lot of about 1.5
acres down here one of the reasons why

1113
01:21:38,960 --> 01:21:45,679
we need this parking lot is the gate to
the facilities right here

1114
01:21:43,600 --> 01:21:49,760
we need to have some kind of access for
88 purposes to get to

1115
01:21:47,840 --> 01:21:54,480
that gate that's not crossing the road
and other things

1116
01:21:52,159 --> 01:21:58,800
and then they also will stub up here in
this area they'll at least put the

1117
01:21:55,760 --> 01:22:03,600
conduits in for future lights
so we could put lights up there if we

1118
01:22:00,480 --> 01:22:09,520
want them and then on the south property
this property in this location they will

1119
01:22:06,239 --> 01:22:13,760
put irrigation and grass and so the arts
park will change the shape and it will

1120
01:22:11,360 --> 01:22:17,120
come down here and we'll include
again this area and then down here

1121
01:22:15,920 --> 01:22:20,320
you've already heard there will be two
tennis courts

1122
01:22:18,400 --> 01:22:25,280
there will be a parking lot of at least
0.75 acres to be utilized for those

1123
01:22:23,920 --> 01:22:28,880
tennis courts
and uh the city would receive this

1124
01:22:27,520 --> 01:22:34,400
building here which is the oak ridge
building so that building is in good

1125
01:22:30,480 --> 01:22:37,600
condition it was uh constructed in 2005.
and that's

1126
01:22:35,360 --> 01:22:42,159
why sorry no go ahead no i was just
going to say i mean that as an example

1127
01:22:40,320 --> 01:22:47,040
you could forego the tennis courts and
install lights or we can bring money to

1128
01:22:44,960 --> 01:22:50,960
the table if we do it relatively soon
and they know that's coming and then you

1129
01:22:48,639 --> 01:22:54,960
could have lights on that other park as
part of we could add money to the to the

1130
01:22:53,440 --> 01:23:00,000
project yes
so where's the parking to the arts park

1131
01:22:57,840 --> 01:23:04,800
where do people park to go into the arts
park today or then then

1132
01:23:02,800 --> 01:23:09,280
once it's built once it's built the
parking would be over in this location

1133
01:23:06,719 --> 01:23:14,159
but so there'd be parking here and then
there'd also be parking here

1134
01:23:11,760 --> 01:23:17,760
so the would it utilize the school's
parking

1135
01:23:15,679 --> 01:23:21,199
and then would also put in a parking lot
in this location and there's access

1136
01:23:19,040 --> 01:23:26,239
across that road to get into the arts
park yes and there would be a walkway

1137
01:23:24,159 --> 01:23:30,960
and i mean one of the discussions we've
had is there's some interesting things

1138
01:23:28,159 --> 01:23:35,600
you could do there with the new road
north south road not being the primary

1139
01:23:33,679 --> 01:23:39,840
access point in general there's good
flow around it you could close that

1140
01:23:37,360 --> 01:23:44,719
segment of road and put food trucks in
there and allow free passageway

1141
01:23:42,480 --> 01:23:47,760
most closely to that
provo will close

1142
01:23:49,600 --> 01:23:56,560
byu game days they close the road just
to the west of the stadium whatever that

1143
01:23:54,080 --> 01:24:00,239
is and uh allow free flow of people
there so it's safe and it could be

1144
01:23:57,920 --> 01:24:04,560
easily done here john was there any
conversation about that little walking

1145
01:24:02,400 --> 01:24:08,719
path on the south of the softball fields
that's around yes that that the walking

1146
01:24:06,960 --> 01:24:13,199
path down here by the creek is this the
one you're talking about that would

1147
01:24:10,639 --> 01:24:19,520
remain the cities also too as part of
this uh development of this new campus

1148
01:24:16,960 --> 01:24:25,120
site plan there will be a walking path
along the entire entire outside of the

1149
01:24:22,880 --> 01:24:28,880
site plan so that's something that's not
shown here but we have seen other plans

1150
01:24:27,440 --> 01:24:33,199
that have it in and it's something that
the school district and the city are

1151
01:24:30,960 --> 01:24:37,120
working to make happen school districts
on board with it okay and this one more

1152
01:24:35,280 --> 01:24:41,760
question the
the old swimming pool that originally i

1153
01:24:40,080 --> 01:24:45,600
mean a long time ago was part of the
discussion i don't care that it did or

1154
01:24:43,679 --> 01:24:49,679
didn't go away but was that discussed
and why didn't well the reason why it

1155
01:24:47,760 --> 01:24:52,480
was part of the discussion before is the
school was going to be located down this

1156
01:24:51,440 --> 01:24:56,320
area
and so it was actually part of the

1157
01:24:54,159 --> 01:25:00,320
discussion for a seminary building the
the lds church was looking to purchase

1158
01:24:58,560 --> 01:25:03,920
that property put their bullying hail up
here and then have some kind of bridge

1159
01:25:02,400 --> 01:25:07,679
or something just to get to the school
that was down in this location but now

1160
01:25:05,920 --> 01:25:10,560
with the school up here
this property will probably remain

1161
01:25:09,199 --> 01:25:14,480
untouched
by this process it's something that if

1162
01:25:12,719 --> 01:25:19,360
the city wants to put money into it
that's something we could do so

1163
01:25:17,920 --> 01:25:23,679
is the seminary going to stay where it
is the seminary right now is looking to

1164
01:25:21,520 --> 01:25:26,880
move up in this location okay so how
does that road pop out

1165
01:25:34,400 --> 01:25:41,040
no you can see on this you can see a
little bit of the gamma home right there

1166
01:25:38,320 --> 01:25:41,040
people ask me

1167
01:25:53,360 --> 01:25:59,840
whoever's to the west yeah but there is
an opening it's big enough for them it

1168
01:25:57,360 --> 01:26:02,560
is yeah oh yeah
i need to see that roundabout before is

1169
01:26:01,040 --> 01:26:05,920
that fairly new where was i when that
roundabout got played no that is fairly

1170
01:26:04,400 --> 01:26:08,880
new yeah that's fairly new but i know
the last discussion that was there oh

1171
01:26:07,679 --> 01:26:12,320
yeah he might not have been there yeah
you were at disneyland

1172
01:26:10,320 --> 01:26:16,400
so if the seminary building is moving up
there what happens to that little piece

1173
01:26:14,159 --> 01:26:20,560
of ground there in that green space
uh that's a good i mean the church owns

1174
01:26:18,320 --> 01:26:24,639
it right church owns it so they could uh
sell it they could do whatever with it i

1175
01:26:22,480 --> 01:26:30,400
know that the school was interested in
purchasing it the school district but uh

1176
01:26:27,840 --> 01:26:35,280
until recently the there hasn't been a
whole lot of communication coming from

1177
01:26:32,800 --> 01:26:38,480
uh the church and so my guess is they're
trying to exchange it yeah but now it's

1178
01:26:37,040 --> 01:26:41,520
getting them to be a little bit better
that's what they did with junior high

1179
01:26:39,679 --> 01:26:44,880
yeah i could make it to a little food
court or something yes now a couple

1180
01:26:43,679 --> 01:26:47,760
things i don't know if troy mentioned
this just quickly this is red devil

1181
01:26:46,880 --> 01:26:53,360
drive
and as part of this joint uh resolution

1182
01:26:50,800 --> 01:26:57,360
which was part of the first one as well
the parties would share equally in the

1183
01:26:54,960 --> 01:27:01,760
costs of that road uh we do have some
impact fees that would that could be put

1184
01:26:59,840 --> 01:27:05,120
towards that road
and just for everybody's purpose one of

1185
01:27:03,520 --> 01:27:08,320
the reasons why we are coming back is
the high school was going to be located

1186
01:27:06,800 --> 01:27:11,679
down here with the football field up in
this location they're keeping the

1187
01:27:10,080 --> 01:27:15,920
football field where it is and they've
moved the high school to the north to

1188
01:27:13,840 --> 01:27:20,159
get a better site plan
just a matter of

1189
01:27:17,679 --> 01:27:23,600
gee whiz they are going to tear this up
right after the football season so in

1190
01:27:21,920 --> 01:27:26,480
january you'll see
the football field torn up and the new

1191
01:27:25,199 --> 01:27:30,639
football fields will start to be
constructed for the next season it is

1192
01:27:29,280 --> 01:27:35,440
pretty neat that they can continue to
hold school completely while they're re

1193
01:27:33,120 --> 01:27:38,480
building that's always awesome yeah and
i was back to the pool issue

1194
01:27:37,760 --> 01:27:43,760
the
the superintendent is really focused on

1195
01:27:41,440 --> 01:27:48,639
be having equivalent facilities for each
of the cities they service so

1196
01:27:46,639 --> 01:27:53,760
there is a
field house shown on that new plan it's

1197
01:27:50,800 --> 01:27:58,239
the darker gray ver north-south box
right here um they don't know 100 that

1198
01:27:56,719 --> 01:28:03,360
they can have
that based upon changing costs but my

1199
01:28:00,639 --> 01:28:08,000
guess is they continue to say they'll
everyone will have it so they're either

1200
01:28:05,840 --> 01:28:12,159
all going to be there or not but i think
with their long-term plan to have

1201
01:28:10,639 --> 01:28:16,080
a field house at each high school
location that they don't need to

1202
01:28:14,960 --> 01:28:20,400
consider
uh utilizing ours or or having ours so

1203
01:28:19,120 --> 01:28:24,719
we're gonna
just have to discuss whether it's worth

1204
01:28:22,400 --> 01:28:29,199
continuing to have ours serve into the
future what to do with that parcel man

1205
01:28:26,960 --> 01:28:33,760
and right now uh they're saying we could
utilize that and it will not

1206
01:28:31,440 --> 01:28:37,040
come under the control of coaches we'll
have to wait and see

1207
01:28:35,920 --> 01:28:41,280
well some of the other ones they were
donated weren't they i mean was it like

1208
01:28:38,560 --> 01:28:44,880
the minor house or something
maple mountain had some money given to

1209
01:28:43,199 --> 01:28:48,000
you i think they did have some money
i don't think it's called the miter

1210
01:28:46,080 --> 01:28:50,080
house
so

1211
01:28:48,880 --> 01:28:53,040
so
questions for john

1212
01:28:53,760 --> 01:28:59,280
great work
yeah that's good

1213
01:28:56,719 --> 01:29:04,080
okay i think we're looking not for an
approval final approval but this is an

1214
01:29:01,520 --> 01:29:07,440
approval to move ahead to the next phase
is that correct

1215
01:29:05,360 --> 01:29:12,159
that's correct underneath the resolution
now it still directs the staffs to work

1216
01:29:09,679 --> 01:29:15,440
together to finalize uh what you see
here in front of you

1217
01:29:13,520 --> 01:29:19,040
we're a lot closer than what we were the
first go around with that first joint

1218
01:29:17,360 --> 01:29:21,600
resolution so
i think it's shaping up

1219
01:29:20,560 --> 01:29:25,600
wonderfully i think we're going to have
a great campus it's going to be a very i

1220
01:29:24,320 --> 01:29:30,639
think the city is just going to be proud
of it so i think all around is going to

1221
01:29:27,520 --> 01:29:34,159
be a great great uh facility and site i
could make the motion if you're ready

1222
01:29:31,840 --> 01:29:40,080
for it mayor i am i make a motion to
approve resolution number 2022-21

1223
01:29:38,320 --> 01:29:43,760
approving property exchanges and
construction of improvements between

1224
01:29:42,239 --> 01:29:48,000
springville city and the nebo school
district as part of the new springville

1225
01:29:45,440 --> 01:29:52,480
high school campus okay have a motion
any questions

1226
01:29:49,600 --> 01:30:00,719
second then i'll second it okay roll
call vote jason yes mike yes liz yes

1227
01:29:56,880 --> 01:30:03,199
craig yes chris yes hey motion passes
good work

1228
01:30:04,639 --> 01:30:08,400
all right do we have

1229
01:30:08,639 --> 01:30:14,560
uh something to make a motion on
for signs

1230
01:30:15,040 --> 01:30:20,480
that's good timing i should have just
kept my mouth shut when councilmember

1231
01:30:19,040 --> 01:30:24,320
jensen uh
wanted to make a motion earlier we would

1232
01:30:21,920 --> 01:30:24,320
have done it

1233
01:30:24,800 --> 01:30:32,960
so we made uh some changes i can read
them to you we basically

1234
01:30:30,800 --> 01:30:39,120
took out the
the former b

1235
01:30:35,360 --> 01:30:41,840
and then change the current b change the
former c

1236
01:30:40,480 --> 01:30:45,520
to read
one a frame attended portable sign may

1237
01:30:43,920 --> 01:30:50,159
be placed in the public right-of-way
behind the curb and gutter by a person

1238
01:30:47,920 --> 01:30:53,600
or through a representative
at all times while the sign is in the

1239
01:30:51,679 --> 01:30:57,679
public right-of-way remind remains
either within

1240
01:30:55,280 --> 01:31:02,080
and i just noticed a typo within on 100
feet i can just fix that within 100 feet

1241
01:31:00,000 --> 01:31:05,679
of the sign or two on the first floor
building his front entrance is within

1242
01:31:03,520 --> 01:31:09,840
100 feet of the sign
and then we changed the next sentence

1243
01:31:08,159 --> 01:31:13,520
springville city reserves the right to
request the removal or relocation of a

1244
01:31:11,840 --> 01:31:18,080
portable sign to accommodate
construction activity or the free flow

1245
01:31:15,920 --> 01:31:20,719
of pedestrian traffic within the public
right-of-way

1246
01:31:21,520 --> 01:31:27,199
and on that we did take the example
building that was uh proposed and we

1247
01:31:25,840 --> 01:31:29,440
made sure that the hundred feet would
work

1248
01:31:28,000 --> 01:31:33,120
okay
pretty good

1249
01:31:30,480 --> 01:31:37,679
well i'll make a motion okay to approve
ordinance number

1250
01:31:35,239 --> 01:31:44,760
07-2022 amending springville city code
section

1251
01:31:39,880 --> 01:31:44,760
11-6-313 specific sign regulations

1252
01:31:45,199 --> 01:31:51,520
as amended
as amended yes

1253
01:31:48,400 --> 01:31:51,520
okay i have a motion

1254
01:31:51,679 --> 01:32:00,080
second
okay it's a rock roll call vote mike yes

1255
01:31:55,679 --> 01:32:03,760
chris yes craig yes liz yes jason yes
okay motion passes

1256
01:32:02,000 --> 01:32:07,280
i think that's pretty monumental i don't
think people realize what that is

1257
01:32:05,840 --> 01:32:12,480
it's a big deal especially for the
people on north main i'm pretty happy i

1258
01:32:09,120 --> 01:32:16,239
mean this will make him happy right
that it's a different coffee shop guy

1259
01:32:14,080 --> 01:32:19,760
though
okay do we have any reason for a closed

1260
01:32:17,840 --> 01:32:25,400
session
wetlands

1261
01:32:20,719 --> 01:32:25,400
oh my heavens sorry josh

1262
01:32:33,520 --> 01:32:40,159
okay sounds good josh number 10 sorry
wetlands

1263
01:32:37,760 --> 01:32:44,000
this is a pretty simple administrative
uh

1264
01:32:41,600 --> 01:32:47,520
process change we're making
uh

1265
01:32:45,040 --> 01:32:51,199
we're basically just amending and
you that what you have in your packet is

1266
01:32:49,600 --> 01:32:55,679
probably a little confusing i think kim
may have passed out

1267
01:32:52,639 --> 01:32:57,920
uh did you pass out copies of
this

1268
01:32:59,120 --> 01:33:03,199
oh
the copy i got that when i printed out

1269
01:33:01,920 --> 01:33:06,880
the packet
didn't actually show the strike throughs

1270
01:33:05,360 --> 01:33:11,199
and the underlines so i just wanted to
make sure you could see that

1271
01:33:08,880 --> 01:33:17,040
so we're basically just
adding options for providing wetlands

1272
01:33:14,159 --> 01:33:21,040
delineations or clearance previously
the code read that a wetlands

1273
01:33:18,560 --> 01:33:25,440
delineation or clearance letter
as required by the city engineer

1274
01:33:23,520 --> 01:33:28,560
and it wasn't clear
and we wanted to make it clear that that

1275
01:33:26,960 --> 01:33:31,920
could be from a wetland specialist it
didn't have to be a delineation or a

1276
01:33:30,080 --> 01:33:36,800
declaration letter from or a clearance
letter from the corps

1277
01:33:34,080 --> 01:33:40,480
but just from a wetland specialist
and then down in

1278
01:33:38,480 --> 01:33:43,360
the next section
we

1279
01:33:41,600 --> 01:33:48,880
it was just redundant and we
consolidated language from the end of

1280
01:33:45,600 --> 01:33:51,920
the code describing a letter uh from the
core and just brought it up into that

1281
01:33:50,400 --> 01:33:56,639
subsection
uh one under the kk

1282
01:33:54,639 --> 01:33:59,360
uh
because it essentially said it twice so

1283
01:33:58,000 --> 01:34:04,159
we just consolidated that it's just a
little fix but it makes some difference

1284
01:34:02,080 --> 01:34:08,560
in terms of our administrative process
when people are trying to

1285
01:34:05,760 --> 01:34:11,280
do site plans and uh
if

1286
01:34:09,600 --> 01:34:16,320
they uh being able to know that they can
go to a specialist instead of waiting uh

1287
01:34:14,159 --> 01:34:20,080
indeterminate amount of time for the
court to respond to a request but it

1288
01:34:18,159 --> 01:34:25,280
still would have to come from them to be
able to proceed with it correct if there

1289
01:34:23,120 --> 01:34:29,520
is a if the clearance letter from the
wetland specialist says there are

1290
01:34:26,639 --> 01:34:33,120
wetlands then we will need
uh a report and a letter when we get to

1291
01:34:31,440 --> 01:34:36,239
site plan yes
but what if they say

1292
01:34:35,280 --> 01:34:40,960
that it's
there's not a wetlands issue

1293
01:34:38,239 --> 01:34:44,239
then there's no further thing requested
concerning wetlands they don't ask for

1294
01:34:42,639 --> 01:34:49,679
the army corps to
to rule on it that i mean the wetland

1295
01:34:47,760 --> 01:34:53,840
specialist isn't the final word on
wetlands they are not

1296
01:34:52,080 --> 01:34:57,520
and one of the things we've uh faced
again and again is

1297
01:34:55,679 --> 01:35:01,760
especially with covet and other things
is the army corps is out of ways we're

1298
01:34:59,760 --> 01:35:04,800
more than happy to keep it like it is
one of the suggestions for why it's

1299
01:35:03,280 --> 01:35:09,199
coming here is
because we've had a lot of people bring

1300
01:35:06,480 --> 01:35:12,239
it up again i i agree that it there's a
it's hard to work with and i'm not

1301
01:35:10,480 --> 01:35:16,560
opposed to letting them get going on it
but now are we putting ourselves at well

1302
01:35:14,560 --> 01:35:19,040
you gave us permission to build on this
now

1303
01:35:17,440 --> 01:35:22,560
five years later
the army corps looked at it said no it's

1304
01:35:20,960 --> 01:35:26,080
wetlands what do you what are you doing
city letting them build on that and

1305
01:35:24,000 --> 01:35:29,760
that's not our responsibility to make
sure that it the lines aren't built on

1306
01:35:27,920 --> 01:35:34,080
other than if that's something that we
care about as a city then we shouldn't

1307
01:35:32,320 --> 01:35:37,920
make sure we get the army corps it's
really their responsibility and they

1308
01:35:36,000 --> 01:35:43,600
receive included in this that we're not
ultimately responsible if it comes back

1309
01:35:40,719 --> 01:35:48,239
even though this specialist
said it was good we said okay if your

1310
01:35:45,520 --> 01:35:53,440
special says it good but they get it
you know turned over or overruled then i

1311
01:35:51,920 --> 01:35:57,679
i might make sure that we're not the
ones liable for that it sounds like we

1312
01:35:55,280 --> 01:36:02,880
would be to me we approved it well look
at the staff report under background it

1313
01:35:59,679 --> 01:36:05,119
actually delineates what the state code
uh

1314
01:36:03,679 --> 01:36:09,520
allows us to do it states that a
municipality may not designate or treat

1315
01:36:07,440 --> 01:36:14,159
any land as wetlands unless the corps of
engineers or other agency has designated

1316
01:36:11,600 --> 01:36:17,440
the land as wetlands so we actually
can't

1317
01:36:15,199 --> 01:36:21,040
legally hold somebody up because we say
something is wetlands

1318
01:36:19,199 --> 01:36:24,719
so are you basically saying you are
giving them permission to

1319
01:36:23,600 --> 01:36:28,639
build
but at their own risk

1320
01:36:26,560 --> 01:36:33,840
yes and we can do that legally to
chris's point yes we don't we're not the

1321
01:36:31,199 --> 01:36:40,000
the gatekeepers of whether it's wetlands
or not it's up to the developer to work

1322
01:36:36,800 --> 01:36:44,159
that out with the army corps
and we're saying we'll approve a

1323
01:36:41,520 --> 01:36:49,360
building permit with a letter from a
certified specialist but really for them

1324
01:36:47,360 --> 01:36:52,560
to protect themselves they should go get
the letter from the army corps

1325
01:36:51,199 --> 01:36:55,840
yeah
i mean to their point i mean are we

1326
01:36:54,320 --> 01:36:59,600
going to do a development agreement in
that sense that shifts that risk or

1327
01:36:58,080 --> 01:37:03,520
makes it clear to the developer that
they're undertaking that or how how does

1328
01:37:01,679 --> 01:37:06,880
the developer know that
well the developers should know that

1329
01:37:04,719 --> 01:37:10,960
because they're developing i mean
that what we've had in our code is

1330
01:37:08,800 --> 01:37:15,040
really to protect the developer and
that's what we've had in our code

1331
01:37:12,960 --> 01:37:19,280
code all these years and i'm more than
happy to keep it like it is we have just

1332
01:37:16,960 --> 01:37:23,360
had so many people come to bureaucracy i
mean we're not supposed to be the police

1333
01:37:21,760 --> 01:37:28,000
then why the heck are we policing it
yeah and i know from experience on the

1334
01:37:25,360 --> 01:37:30,480
one even this letter that was here i i
had some experience there and it was

1335
01:37:29,520 --> 01:37:33,199
clean
everybody knew it was clean but there

1336
01:37:31,760 --> 01:37:37,119
was still some weird stuff out there
that said it wasn't and as a city we

1337
01:37:35,840 --> 01:37:40,400
were like well what do we do what do we
do what do we do

1338
01:37:38,320 --> 01:37:44,159
but in the end it really is on the
developer and the core

1339
01:37:42,320 --> 01:37:47,600
at some point i mean i think we did due
diligence which is important but i don't

1340
01:37:46,080 --> 01:37:51,280
think we try and be another gatekeeper
in the middle of it i don't think that's

1341
01:37:48,880 --> 01:37:56,159
our position i don't either
i don't either but we're seeing cities

1342
01:37:53,440 --> 01:38:00,480
get sued with landslides on hillsides
because they allowed them to build there

1343
01:37:58,000 --> 01:38:05,040
and as long as it's as long as it
somehow transferring that liability hold

1344
01:38:02,960 --> 01:38:10,239
harmless or something that if it ever
eventually is declared as wetlands

1345
01:38:07,520 --> 01:38:13,280
the city is can we if we can legally do
that i don't know if we can i don't know

1346
01:38:11,760 --> 01:38:17,440
if you can probably what we ought to do
i mean because i don't see that we have

1347
01:38:15,119 --> 01:38:21,840
uh any liability because it's really on
them but

1348
01:38:19,119 --> 01:38:25,280
if that i i like that what you're saying
because it just puts one more layer of

1349
01:38:23,679 --> 01:38:28,480
protection for us i would say let's
continue this until then

1350
01:38:26,880 --> 01:38:32,400
i like it josh i think it's a great
let's continue to the next meeting we

1351
01:38:29,920 --> 01:38:35,760
can put that language in there and bring
it right back to the next meet we could

1352
01:38:34,400 --> 01:38:38,800
probably even just put it on the consent
agent if that's what you wanted well

1353
01:38:37,360 --> 01:38:41,920
it's my opinion that i would just leave
it the same

1354
01:38:40,000 --> 01:38:46,560
i don't think you should be
opening it up i i think that they need

1355
01:38:44,159 --> 01:38:50,000
to demonstrate to the city that it's
it's a clean piece of property to build

1356
01:38:48,239 --> 01:38:55,840
on that's my opinion and i don't have a
vote but for what it's worth no and i'm

1357
01:38:52,719 --> 01:38:55,840
we're fine with that as well

1358
01:38:56,880 --> 01:39:02,320
i'm kind of like craig on this one i
think you know if the if the builder is

1359
01:39:00,480 --> 01:39:07,199
willing to accept the response because
most of the times they're

1360
01:39:04,400 --> 01:39:10,080
it's forever and ever our
bus shop down there forever and ever and

1361
01:39:09,280 --> 01:39:13,600
ever
yeah and and you had a specialist that

1362
01:39:11,760 --> 01:39:19,360
said it was clean it was clean but and
by the time you get to the army corps

1363
01:39:15,760 --> 01:39:19,360
that says yep you're right it's clean

1364
01:39:19,520 --> 01:39:24,800
it's it's kind of an interesting process
because we don't know if there's

1365
01:39:22,560 --> 01:39:28,960
wetlands or not and so what we have is
we have an engineer who's not a

1366
01:39:26,480 --> 01:39:33,760
specialist saying hey i've looked at the
national wetlands inventory map which is

1367
01:39:31,360 --> 01:39:36,719
clearly not accurate and it even says
that on there and so i'm going to make

1368
01:39:35,199 --> 01:39:41,199
you go out and do all these things for
wetlands and so it's kind of a tough

1369
01:39:39,360 --> 01:39:45,520
little situation that we're put in and
then we have a state statute that says

1370
01:39:43,520 --> 01:39:49,040
we can't declare something wetlands
unless the army corps declares a

1371
01:39:46,960 --> 01:39:52,880
wetlands and so
it's just kind of a tough situation but

1372
01:39:51,199 --> 01:39:57,040
i kind of like what you're saying if it
makes you feel better and it makes me

1373
01:39:54,639 --> 01:40:00,560
feel better too to let's just add some
language that hey you can move forward

1374
01:39:58,560 --> 01:40:04,320
with the wetlands delineation letter
that says there's no wetlands but you've

1375
01:40:03,119 --> 01:40:09,360
got to do some kind of development
agreement that says you're going to

1376
01:40:06,320 --> 01:40:12,560
indemnify and hold harmless the city
just like they do if they're going to

1377
01:40:10,560 --> 01:40:15,920
build on a hillside yes i mean if
they're going to put helical piers and

1378
01:40:13,840 --> 01:40:20,159
come off a cliff they have to say yep we
did that yeah so we need a motion to

1379
01:40:17,760 --> 01:40:25,119
table this or to continue excuse me yeah
continue to the next regular meeting

1380
01:40:23,280 --> 01:40:28,960
i'm open for a motion hard motion that
we continue it but just put it on the

1381
01:40:26,800 --> 01:40:32,480
consent agenda if if that works for
everybody else we don't have to hash it

1382
01:40:30,320 --> 01:40:36,560
out again because we have to vote okay
yeah we'll vote via consent agenda

1383
01:40:41,600 --> 01:40:46,560
thank you
all right troy we don't need a closed

1384
01:40:45,040 --> 01:40:50,719
session you just have no it's just an
administrative report that's the next

1385
01:40:48,239 --> 01:40:54,000
item on the agenda there
i talked just very briefly with the

1386
01:40:52,480 --> 01:40:58,880
mayor about this
in fact maybe while i'm pulling up the

1387
01:40:57,360 --> 01:41:03,280
city map
we had a

1388
01:41:00,400 --> 01:41:08,320
quick and detailed discussion on public
infrastructure districts in the first

1389
01:41:05,920 --> 01:41:12,480
work session tonight the developers have
gone home for the evening

1390
01:41:11,440 --> 01:41:17,360
but
are you okay like we're discussing with

1391
01:41:15,600 --> 01:41:21,600
the best way to get your feedback on
your interest in doing a pid just to put

1392
01:41:19,440 --> 01:41:25,600
it on the next work session along with
the 16 south discussion just to get

1393
01:41:23,280 --> 01:41:30,159
feedback is that you think a good way to
do that do we have people asking us for

1394
01:41:28,000 --> 01:41:36,080
pids or we're just getting educated on
them no we have people that are asking

1395
01:41:33,040 --> 01:41:41,840
your interest in uh entering into some
pids to allow financing and some of the

1396
01:41:38,000 --> 01:41:41,840
larger developments under consideration

1397
01:41:42,719 --> 01:41:49,840
i just struggle with it i mean i do to
we're not that big of a city but i mean

1398
01:41:47,600 --> 01:41:54,480
if any i mean i could maybe see lakeside
landing in its infancy for that because

1399
01:41:52,560 --> 01:41:59,119
that's a brand new but
it'd be interesting to know when and

1400
01:41:55,760 --> 01:42:04,639
where they want it but it's also is it
is it true that you basically turn the

1401
01:42:01,840 --> 01:42:11,119
taxing authority over to the pid and
they have discretion from the amount of

1402
01:42:07,600 --> 01:42:14,560
up to that limit .015
yes and no you do turn the taxing

1403
01:42:12,960 --> 01:42:19,360
authority over to that entity but the
council establishes by their policy and

1404
01:42:17,119 --> 01:42:24,560
the agree agreement enabling
establishing

1405
01:42:20,719 --> 01:42:26,840
um that entity what authority it has so
you could

1406
01:42:25,760 --> 01:42:32,239
instead of
0.1015 i think it was you could say no

1407
01:42:29,320 --> 01:42:36,719
.003 is the most we would allow
you to to enter

1408
01:42:34,639 --> 01:42:41,199
to allow you to tax the citizens in that
area the city has kind of complete

1409
01:42:38,800 --> 01:42:46,400
control over the creation of that
district and what authority ukraine can

1410
01:42:43,360 --> 01:42:49,840
we become like an rda agency like we
absolutely would be in other words it's

1411
01:42:48,239 --> 01:42:52,320
slightly different from rda but
effectively

1412
01:42:52,800 --> 01:43:01,040
as a city council you say we're granting
authority for this area of town to to uh

1413
01:42:58,639 --> 01:43:07,679
create this special district with taxing
authority with these uh restrictions

1414
01:43:04,080 --> 01:43:11,199
troy and refresh my memory these the
city council is not the board for that

1415
01:43:09,280 --> 01:43:15,679
though no that's correct but the board
is a different board that's right but

1416
01:43:13,600 --> 01:43:19,440
this board establishes the parameters
exactly in which they connect so it's

1417
01:43:17,760 --> 01:43:24,480
it's actually not this group that can
act on the parameters that you use

1418
01:43:21,679 --> 01:43:29,280
you set the parameters a different board
um then goes and so it borrows money is

1419
01:43:27,440 --> 01:43:34,560
it a board that's appointed by the city
or who who is this board uh i believe

1420
01:43:32,159 --> 01:43:39,760
that's true as well i think the city can
help determine how to be set up but

1421
01:43:36,960 --> 01:43:43,600
state law governs how it is set up and
so it's kind of like a special

1422
01:43:41,119 --> 01:43:47,440
improvement district that's a that's
uh that's not ran through the city

1423
01:43:46,000 --> 01:43:50,800
there's special improvement districts
everywhere where the board runs what

1424
01:43:49,440 --> 01:43:54,239
goes on with
say sewer or water or whatever and

1425
01:43:52,400 --> 01:43:59,199
that's what this would be in collecting
funds to repay and see what john john

1426
01:43:56,960 --> 01:44:02,239
and i were talking just kind of offline
in there i mean one other thing that

1427
01:44:00,480 --> 01:44:07,440
didn't come out in there is developers
are using this to develop really their

1428
01:44:04,320 --> 01:44:12,320
on-site infrastructure is what they want
yeah so i mean technically you could

1429
01:44:09,679 --> 01:44:17,679
have a developer come in
get a bond get the tax set up put the

1430
01:44:15,119 --> 01:44:21,119
roads in leave and then
the people who buy their house are

1431
01:44:19,840 --> 01:44:24,960
paying for the road that's in front of
their house when technically they're

1432
01:44:22,800 --> 01:44:29,760
still selling it at full value yeah full
value there's nothing here

1433
01:44:27,760 --> 01:44:34,000
yeah but then the so they sell for full
value which normally the developer puts

1434
01:44:31,760 --> 01:44:37,040
the road in and then they have to pay a
tax for the road that the developer put

1435
01:44:35,600 --> 01:44:40,400
in but they bought for full value on
their house i mean it's just kind of an

1436
01:44:38,320 --> 01:44:43,679
interesting little i mean the primary
interest what i'm hearing from

1437
01:44:41,679 --> 01:44:48,639
developers coming in they're they're
varied

1438
01:44:44,639 --> 01:44:52,560
interests uh really but but it's it's
it's an economic development tool

1439
01:44:50,159 --> 01:44:57,920
because it allows the city to
help developers over that hurdle that

1440
01:44:55,760 --> 01:45:02,239
that mr penrod is talking about
those upfront costs

1441
01:44:59,920 --> 01:45:06,560
by way of a guaranteed revenue stream
that would come back i've conveyed to

1442
01:45:04,560 --> 01:45:10,239
the developers that asked me that i
felt pretty strongly the council would

1443
01:45:08,159 --> 01:45:15,199
not be very interested in pids in
general the one concept again we didn't

1444
01:45:13,119 --> 01:45:20,560
talk about it very much tonight that i
said they might be willing to possibly

1445
01:45:18,320 --> 01:45:24,400
consider it is a is a public
infrastructure district that had no

1446
01:45:22,480 --> 01:45:26,960
taxing authority on the property tax
side um

1447
01:45:26,239 --> 01:45:29,280
but
would

1448
01:45:28,000 --> 01:45:34,159
but
the pid the public infrastructure

1449
01:45:31,760 --> 01:45:37,199
district would receive
the

1450
01:45:35,440 --> 01:45:44,000
impact fee
revenue stream for the installation

1451
01:45:40,320 --> 01:45:48,239
of impact fee eligible infrastructure
that's a lot to get your minds around

1452
01:45:45,760 --> 01:45:52,639
there but
if they if they have a guaranteed

1453
01:45:50,320 --> 01:45:57,520
revenue stream they could go to the bond
market still sell tax-free bonds below

1454
01:45:55,840 --> 01:46:02,320
commercial rates
because they have a guaranteed income

1455
01:45:59,280 --> 01:46:06,480
stream coming in to pay back
those bonds but it's still a very

1456
01:46:04,560 --> 01:46:09,199
complicated transaction you'd have to
have a policy you'd have to set up the

1457
01:46:07,920 --> 01:46:13,440
district
you'd have to enter into an agreement to

1458
01:46:10,960 --> 01:46:16,719
have your revenue streams go there
much of that you're doing already right

1459
01:46:14,960 --> 01:46:22,639
you'll anticipate doing a development
agreement to pay those revenue streams

1460
01:46:19,040 --> 01:46:27,520
to a developer that installs that
that's the feedback i gave generally

1461
01:46:25,119 --> 01:46:30,800
when i first heard of these but
the question is do you want do you have

1462
01:46:29,440 --> 01:46:34,880
feedback for me or do you want to
discuss it

1463
01:46:32,080 --> 01:46:34,880
um again

1464
01:46:35,119 --> 01:46:40,400
i'm not sure we understand it yeah i'm
not really that but i don't think we're

1465
01:46:38,719 --> 01:46:44,719
all i don't think we're
at all excited about saying go for it

1466
01:46:42,480 --> 01:46:48,320
but well as it is i mean it
my feeling is we're not really that pro

1467
01:46:46,880 --> 01:46:51,360
development anyway it's not like we're
nice to developers so why would we come

1468
01:46:49,840 --> 01:46:54,880
up with this tool that makes us even
nicer that's exactly

1469
01:46:53,119 --> 01:46:58,239
i don't know that's exactly against what
this council basically represents maybe

1470
01:46:57,199 --> 01:47:01,600
not me
but they're but they're i wouldn't want

1471
01:46:59,840 --> 01:47:05,119
to be nice there have been times in the
history of springville where it would

1472
01:47:03,119 --> 01:47:09,199
have been nice to help some development
happen and get over the hump but you're

1473
01:47:06,960 --> 01:47:13,119
right now like man there's development
coming at us every which way and then

1474
01:47:11,280 --> 01:47:17,119
they line up and ask for that it's like
well i think we always have to be

1475
01:47:14,639 --> 01:47:22,000
friendly about it but not
well we don't

1476
01:47:18,719 --> 01:47:26,000
yeah i i always figured with the rdas
when we first started doing those would

1477
01:47:23,840 --> 01:47:30,560
that property develop within a few years
anyway without it which is maybe selfish

1478
01:47:28,560 --> 01:47:33,760
but that's who we represent as the city
and i think

1479
01:47:31,840 --> 01:47:36,800
do we need to be doing this incentive
and if i don't know that we need to be

1480
01:47:35,199 --> 01:47:42,239
doing this incentive i don't understand
it well enough but i don't understand

1481
01:47:38,239 --> 01:47:42,239
why we would look at it this way

1482
01:47:42,400 --> 01:47:51,280
your the advantage to the developer
is you give him a ch a avenue to get a

1483
01:47:48,960 --> 01:47:55,440
cheaper borrowing
and

1484
01:47:52,320 --> 01:47:59,760
you give him an avenue of cash flow to
pay back the borrowing that's

1485
01:47:57,440 --> 01:48:04,480
principally what it is yeah and what the
the market said or at least the people

1486
01:48:01,840 --> 01:48:08,880
that came to me that that are
not the developer they're saying often

1487
01:48:06,560 --> 01:48:12,960
what the city will do then is negotiate
a better development in other words hey

1488
01:48:11,280 --> 01:48:19,119
we'd be willing to participate in this
if you also provided us a park or

1489
01:48:16,639 --> 01:48:23,360
you put specialized stamped concrete on
the sidewalks or do something that gives

1490
01:48:22,480 --> 01:48:28,000
um
the development something different to

1491
01:48:25,840 --> 01:48:33,199
deal with the differentiation and
property tax um levels that we talked

1492
01:48:30,960 --> 01:48:36,400
about hey yeah you are paying a higher
property tax but you have fancy lights

1493
01:48:35,119 --> 01:48:39,920
whereas the people over here are not
paying as much but they don't have fancy

1494
01:48:38,400 --> 01:48:44,719
lights you could offer i mean you could
require that anyway

1495
01:48:42,239 --> 01:48:49,280
yeah and then currently
we've got zoning in place in all those

1496
01:48:47,280 --> 01:48:53,440
areas so we're not really in right now
at least being offered or negotiating

1497
01:48:51,600 --> 01:48:58,000
anything on that
so at least with this discussion i think

1498
01:48:55,440 --> 01:49:02,719
what i can do is i can point back i just
looked just before i got up we're

1499
01:48:59,600 --> 01:49:05,920
getting between seven and 35 views of
the stream but the stream being there we

1500
01:49:04,639 --> 01:49:09,840
can point the developers they'll get
your initial reaction to it and let them

1501
01:49:08,239 --> 01:49:13,119
decide if they want to continue to have
the discussion which i think is good i

1502
01:49:12,000 --> 01:49:16,639
mean it's
that's um

1503
01:49:14,800 --> 01:49:19,440
because we i think a couple of you kind
of mentioned that my position has always

1504
01:49:18,320 --> 01:49:23,040
been we're always willing to listen
we're always willing to talk to you um

1505
01:49:21,520 --> 01:49:27,280
there'll be a time where it comes a vote
and you'll say yes or no to it and

1506
01:49:24,560 --> 01:49:32,159
they'll have to gauge that out so okay
that's helpful so on to the one item we

1507
01:49:29,280 --> 01:49:36,400
had provo you'll remember we tried to
get a joint meeting with provost city

1508
01:49:34,000 --> 01:49:41,760
council that's still in the works i
received a call from provo today and and

1509
01:49:40,159 --> 01:49:45,040
their engineering group is supposed to
come talk to you about something to me

1510
01:49:43,280 --> 01:49:47,760
this is so simple and basic i can't
imagine

1511
01:49:46,080 --> 01:49:51,920
um there'll be a ton of concerns so i
just wanted to highlight what what they

1512
01:49:50,400 --> 01:49:55,920
they wanted two things when they wanted
to talk about what i'm about to talk

1513
01:49:53,520 --> 01:49:59,760
about they also were just wanted to get
to know you better and kind of

1514
01:49:57,840 --> 01:50:04,560
um have both councils have an
opportunity to know each other which i

1515
01:50:02,080 --> 01:50:08,840
think could still happen but to orient
you here is main street 1400 north joe

1516
01:50:07,440 --> 01:50:12,880
banditos
um so can you see where we're at in the

1517
01:50:12,000 --> 01:50:18,800
city
this current uh city boundary is the

1518
01:50:15,599 --> 01:50:24,920
slightly darker thicker gray line
if that makes sense and if i highlight

1519
01:50:20,639 --> 01:50:24,920
this and pull it out of the way

1520
01:50:25,119 --> 01:50:33,040
this parcel here
goes right up to the edge of the city

1521
01:50:30,480 --> 01:50:38,719
boundary which it's supposed to do
but this parcel here is owned by provo

1522
01:50:35,360 --> 01:50:44,320
city and it's about to become a road
so mayor a child and and i went and

1523
01:50:41,679 --> 01:50:48,719
spoke with america cafusi and some of
her staff

1524
01:50:45,760 --> 01:50:53,040
just over a year ago and said hey we
really don't want provo you leaving a

1525
01:50:51,199 --> 01:50:57,199
nuisance trip here because we need to
make this intersection a little bit

1526
01:50:55,199 --> 01:51:02,480
safer for our community
uh likewise the owner of just these

1527
01:50:59,840 --> 01:51:06,719
properties here was concerned about how
they could could

1528
01:51:04,840 --> 01:51:10,080
develop and
uh

1529
01:51:07,920 --> 01:51:13,280
my understanding and i'm looking here
and going i might need a touch more

1530
01:51:11,679 --> 01:51:17,040
understanding but
provo is suggesting it has worked out an

1531
01:51:15,440 --> 01:51:21,760
agreement with the neighboring property
owners that would

1532
01:51:18,800 --> 01:51:26,159
gift the property to the adjoining
property owners and

1533
01:51:24,000 --> 01:51:31,280
they would request to move the city
boundary from this line over to directly

1534
01:51:29,360 --> 01:51:35,679
adjacent to the road
all they're asking to do is give us

1535
01:51:34,800 --> 01:51:39,199
this
uh give

1536
01:51:37,119 --> 01:51:45,040
this third of an acre to springville
city within this not to us as owners but

1537
01:51:42,320 --> 01:51:47,360
within our city boundaries
um

1538
01:51:46,000 --> 01:51:51,119
is all
so that we can go up against the road

1539
01:51:49,280 --> 01:51:55,280
and our interest is to be against the
roads so that we can connect to it

1540
01:51:53,119 --> 01:52:00,320
without a neutron strip the road would
be provost the road would be maintained

1541
01:51:57,119 --> 01:52:04,560
by provo um if springville city
eventually had a road that connected to

1542
01:52:01,920 --> 01:52:08,239
it obviously we would maintain and and
uh

1543
01:52:06,239 --> 01:52:13,520
snow plow and take care of the road on
our side that's that's really all provo

1544
01:52:11,040 --> 01:52:19,040
is interested in as is the property
owner uh to to be able to better develop

1545
01:52:16,560 --> 01:52:22,639
their property it also makes it safer
for our citizens once all that gets

1546
01:52:20,960 --> 01:52:26,400
taken care of
any questions or concerns on the t

1547
01:52:24,560 --> 01:52:28,560
intersection what looks like
it's not going to go straight through is

1548
01:52:27,679 --> 01:52:33,920
it
into spring springville current which

1549
01:52:31,199 --> 01:52:39,119
currently it would be a t intersection
uh and they will be moving the entrance

1550
01:52:37,199 --> 01:52:43,440
uh if i get it right
they will be moving the entrance to this

1551
01:52:41,199 --> 01:52:46,560
to be centered on the intersection so
it'll also be

1552
01:52:44,800 --> 01:52:50,800
it'll be safely done here but no it will
not continue as a roadway south and that

1553
01:52:48,719 --> 01:52:53,599
helps to do what you're saying yes
absolutely

1554
01:52:52,400 --> 01:52:57,599
can you show the boundaries of
springville going west

1555
01:52:55,599 --> 01:53:01,520
i thought we were further north at that
point so we continue here until you

1556
01:53:00,080 --> 01:53:04,560
reach the railroad tracks and obviously
we go a long ways north because we have

1557
01:53:03,119 --> 01:53:09,440
the whole industrial park there all the
way up to this point here okay

1558
01:53:07,760 --> 01:53:13,679
and that didn't matter i just i thought
we were further i thought we were some

1559
01:53:12,000 --> 01:53:17,599
of that area
works single was not interested in this

1560
01:53:15,599 --> 01:53:21,199
you can see it at this this area right
here

1561
01:53:18,719 --> 01:53:26,880
was actually a superfund site which is a
federal environmental cleanup site so

1562
01:53:23,920 --> 01:53:30,080
this was uh yeah we didn't but
apparently it's been cleaned up now and

1563
01:53:28,320 --> 01:53:34,000
is ready for development
so are there any questions or can i

1564
01:53:31,599 --> 01:53:37,440
convey back to provo that um yeah we'll
still come back and you'll have a

1565
01:53:35,280 --> 01:53:40,639
presentation you'll have an action but
springville city would be okay with this

1566
01:53:38,960 --> 01:53:43,360
concept of moving the city boundary a
few feet to the west

1567
01:53:42,480 --> 01:53:47,520
sure
i love that road

1568
01:53:45,040 --> 01:53:47,520
it'll be good

1569
01:53:50,239 --> 01:53:55,920
no kidding
okay is there anything else that needs

1570
01:53:53,520 --> 01:54:00,480
to be brought up
entertain a motion then for adjournment

1571
01:53:57,920 --> 01:54:04,880
a motion to adjourn this meeting second
a second those in favor

1572
01:54:02,480 --> 01:54:08,000
all right opposed
great

1573
01:54:05,760 --> 01:54:11,520
lots of wood shop tonight have fun at
the parade without me i'm sorry i won't

1574
01:54:09,679 --> 01:54:17,000
be there when are you leaving thursday
morning two days in

1575
01:54:13,679 --> 01:54:17,000
this thursday