>> this meeting has called to order. Good evening meeting, everyone. It's good to see so many smiling faces here tonight.
I have one brief announcement before we get started. Chief carlos aviles has informed me that the room is at capacity,
and we ask for your patience because after the presentation, there will be more seats.
so we appreciate you hanging with us and just
waiting a little bit until the first couple of presentations are over with,
and that'll make more room for us. With that said, we are called to order.
madam clerk, please call the roll. >> nancy sikes-kline.
>> here. >> barbara blonder. >> here. >> cynthia garris. >> here. >> jim springfield. >> here.
>> jon depreter. >> here. >> I will ask for a moment of silence followed by the pledge of allegiance led
by vice mayor barbara blonder.
thank you. >> please stand if you are able.
>> the first item that we have is modification and approval of the regular agenda.
I have received a request for a modification of the regular agenda to move item.
the resolution pertaining to nights of lights.
I have been asked not to move it necessarily, but to take public comment at that time.
I have about 14 speaker cards here of
folks that have signed up to speak during general public comments,
but I've received a request to take those comments at the time of the hearing of the resolution,
and I would offer that modification to the agenda.
>> they would still be considered general public comment. >> yes.
>> not required. >> I move that we agree to take public comment during
item 9b2. Do I hear a second.
>> second? >> all those in favor signify by saying aye.
>> aye, >> aye. Oppose. Motion carries.
so that is a motion to approve the regular agenda with modifications.
>> wait, you do have to approve the agenda [overlapping]. >> specifically.
>> yes please. >> well, I will call that out. Do I hear a motion to approve the regular agenda?
>> I'll make a motion to approve the regular agenda with the change we just made.
>> I'll second that. Any discussion. All those in favor signify by saying aye.
>> aye. >> no opposed. >> now we will go on to special presentation. We have two.
we have a proclamation for landscape architecture month, which I will read in.
is there anyone here to hear or accept that proclamation? Yes, sir.
I will read the proclamation, then I will ask you to join me upfront with the commissioner for a photograph,
if that's okay and you're welcome to make comments as well. This is the proclamation.
whereas, landscape architecture is a multifaceted profession that encompasses the analysis,
design, planning, management, and stewardship of the natural and built environment.
playing a crucial role in shaping the spaces where people live, work, and play.
whereas landscape architects design and create community master plans,
walkable neighborhoods, multimodal transportation networks, green,
stormwater systems, and accessible spaces such as public plazas, parks, schools,
residential common areas, playgrounds, and trails that lead to active lifestyles and healthy communities.
whereas landscape architects, as licensed professionals have
consistently demonstrated their commitment to public health,
safety and welfare by designing accessible and safe public place spaces,
promoting active lifestyles and fostering resilient and sustainable outdoor environments in st. Augustine.
whereas st. Augustine acknowledges the impact of landscape architects in addressing
climate change and biodiversity through innovation and sustainable design practices,
creating resilient and green infrastructure to withstand and respond to severe weather events,
ultimately reducing the burden on state and local funds for disaster recovery efforts.
whereas landscape architecture month is an opportunity to reflect
on the profession's transformative impact on public health,
safety, and welfare through the thoughtful design, analysis, management, and stewardship of the natural and built environments in st. Augustine.
contributing to the overall well being of its residents.
now, therefore, the city commission of the city of st. Augustine hereby proclaims
the month of april 2025 as landscape architecture month in the city of st. Augustine,
and encourages citizens to in acknowledging their role in creating inviting and safe spaces that contribute to
the state's economy while simultaneously preserving
the environment and ecological system in witness here whereof,
I have heard to set my hand and caused the seal of the city of st. Augustine to be a fixed this 24th day of march in
the year of our lord 2025 and 459th year of the founding of st. Augustine,
the nation's oldest city, nancy sikes-kline mayor. With that said, please join me in the front, commissioners. [applause]
>> [background] thank you for your support. We do projects throughout the city and through
the county and parks and recreation, you name it. We're involved throughout the county,
and we have two universities that do landscape architecture,
degrees and masters, and a bachelor's in the state of florida, university of florida and
the florida international university. Thank you for your support.
>> thank you very much this is yours [applause]
>> the next item on the agenda is the presentation of this american flag to the family to our beloved tom rahner,
who is the 2019 recipient of the order of la florida,
which is our highest honor that we award to citizens.
I will leave this here, and I have some things to read.
we are so to have our poet laureate, with us tonight.
I would like to say as part of the city's protocol
to honor former city commissioners and notable figures upon their death,
it is my honor this evening to take a few moments to remember our dear friend tom rahner,
the city's 2019 recipient of the order la florida award.
before we begin the flag presentation, I would like to invite our poet laureate,
dr. Ann browning masters, to come forward and read an original piece written for
tom in 2019 in recognition of this award.
would you like the podium or would you like the stand? Podium. You are going to use this very well.
this is all yours. Absolutely.
>> can you hear me out there? Once upon a time,
st. Augustine was a town. I was familiar with the rahner family growing up,
tom's father, a wonderful professional photographer.
tom graduated with my aunt betty joe sanchez brock from st. Joseph academy,
and his sister graduated with my mother two years prior.
when I arrived at flagler college for my freshman and sophomore year before I transferred to uf,
it was not a surprise to have him be my drama instructor, as you can imagine.
we were a gaggle of girls who didn't know anything about acting, but we thought we did, and tom schooled us, I guess you would say.
so many years later, I wrote a poem about my experience with him and
his kindness and his good humor dealing with crazy young people.
it was published in the gathering of poets edition edited by sharon school also in 2019.
that's what I'm going to read to you tonight. The title is I taught you for tom rahner, my drama professor.
all my pretty young women and men, I taught you.
then you walked to the end of a stage and away,
measuring days in moments and friends,
my prompts done for meeting and making your mark.
you were newly made up students once,
and I whispered lost lines to elicit your presence.
you swore best with your bodies.
then skidded and twitched when I pushed you to unpack your minds.
all my lovely young actors who dreamed in your learning and learned in your dreams,
you are gone from my clock. My kindly meant nudges to paths not taken,
to wisdom just forming. Step into the light.
your lives are at morning. [applause]
>> thank you, ann.
that was beautiful. Thank you so much.
thank you so much, ann.
I have a few words to share about tom. Tom rahner was a st. Augustine native who began performing as
a puppeteer in his own one man marionette show and his early teens.
he also appeared in productions staged by the artillery lane theater and st. Augustine's little theater.
in addition to appearing in college productions as a student,
he worked professionally in summer theater and a historic outdoor drama.
after graduating from the university of florida in 1957,
with majors in english and theater, tom joined the army.
he deployed to germany, and jean joined him there, where they were married in the summer of 1959.
upon their return to st. Augustine, after his military service,
tom took a teaching position with the st. Johns county school district teaching fifth grade for a year,
and then two years at st. Augustine high school. In 1963, with
the fast approaching 400th anniversary of the founding of st. Augustine in 1965.
one of the most ambitious projects being planned by the 400th anniversary committee was to build a
02,000 seat amphitheater in anastasia state park.
the goal was to host a summer long, historical outdoor drama about the founding of st. Augustine,
aptly named cross and sword. The production was written just for the occasion.
tom was offered and accepted the position as the manager of the 400th anniversary committees amphitheater project,
overseeing construction and operations. The project deadline was met.
and in june 1965, cross and sword debuted at the st. Augustine
amphitheatre with tom not only as the theaters general manager, but also playing the comic lead in the play whose cast also included jean.
in 1968, tom became the director of cross and sword and saw it
designated as florida's official state play and held that position for a decade.
during that time, he and jean performed several lead roles in the play for many years.
it was also in 1968 that tom joined the faculty of the newly opened flagler college,
and it was their inaugural year. It was the beginning of tom's 30 plus years with the college and its theater department.
while the college's theater department was growing, it had no actual theater until 1975,
when tom designed and oversaw the construction of the 185 seat facility in the governor's house,
which served the college and the community as its first theater for 13 years.
the centennial of the opening of a hotel ponce de leon in 1988,
now flagler college, tom wrote and performed, and jean directed and produced henry flagler remembers.
a one man show that was responsible for introducing the railroad and hotel builder
to a wide audience that up until that point was unaware of flagler's importance in florida history.
the production continued for 25 years in venues ranging from
marathon and the keys to tallahassee and as far afield as louisville, kentucky.
then in 1991, tom had yet another opportunity to
participate in the design and construction of an auditorium for flagler college.
a 700 seat state of the art facility, and upon completion in 1996,
the new lewis theater premiered a production of flagler,
the empire builder of florida. It was a musical written by tom and produced by limelight theater,
yet another example of a successful collaboration by the rahner's.
after more than three decades as a member of the flagler college faculty,
tom retired from teaching in 1999. He was named as honorary alumni of the college and received
the designation of associate professor emeritus theater arts.
>> it is no exaggeration to say that for half a century,
very few performances of live theater in st. Augustine were in some form or
fashion the result of or inspiration by tom rahner.
tom may never know the full reach of his influence. But this community is fully aware of his contributions to
the arts and his leadership that inspired us and enriched us.
tom's passing is a tremendous loss for a community,
but his legacy will live on for generations to come. Today, we remember tom and honor him greatly with presenting this flag to his family,
his wife, jean, and their children, philip and laura. The inscription reads,
''this flag was flown at city hall on wednesday, january 29,
2025, in honor of tom rahner, recipient of the 2019 order of la florida award.''
thank you. [applause] at this time,
jean and family members, please come up and accept the flag,
and we'll give you the opportunity to make remarks. Yes. A photograph?a photograph.
great. Commissioners, you can join us. [applause]
we're just giving the room a minute to clear. We have spaces available up front.
I have more speaker cards.
hopefully, we're able to bring everyone inside at this time.
at this time, we will hear general public comments.
as we said earlier, the folks that are here to speak on the nights of lights resolution, of course,
they're free to speak now if they're cut short for time,
we will be taking public comment at the time that we discuss that resolution later in the agenda.
if you wish to speak now, please raise your hand and let me know.
I'll take your card and move you forward. Nobody wants to.
great. The first speaker is going to be christie hamilton.
>> I always going to first. [laughter] I'm christie.
I wanted to thank you guys for paying attention to the comments that
I brought about a month ago to you guys regarding what's going on at sapd.
there has been a memo that has been issued, I think, from you guys wanting some of the stuff handled from the city manager,
which I appreciate, to the chief of police. The concerns that I brought forward was about the chief of
police conducting city business on personal emails. The result of that being looked into was a one-day suspension without pay.
the emails that were looked at were about implementing a policy that the chief of police could
dismiss a citizen's concerns or request for an investigation if the chief of police decided that they didn't have merit.
one of those investigations that she dismissed was something I had sent to the city manager last summer.
it was about a now former officer holding onto citizens' private information,
their driver's licenses, and screenshots of the ncic screen that police have available to them.
I sent several of these over to the city manager and also with
a video that former officer kelly baker had taken of herself in sapd uniform,
joking about killing someone while on duty. All of these things were very concerning.
it now appears that mr. Barton did what he should have done, which was sent them to the chief.
the chief then within 24 hours, according to her and officer baker,
informed officer baker of these concerns, and as a result,
officer baker filed several motions against me and my husband in court, costing us thousands of dollars.
up until now, the request for an investigation wasn't looked into.
now clay county has done this investigation, and commander castine from sapd,
and a union attorney that represented ms. Baker is blocking us from getting access to it.
this is a investigation I requested that, like I said, has cost me time,
money, energy, lots of emotional stress that now we're being blocked from being able to access.
I'm not sure why I haven't gotten a response, but this is something that directly impacted me.
my other questions are, I don't know if this policy is still in effect.
the memo that was issued stated like it was still in effect and that the chief can just dismiss citizens on a whim without looking into it,
which is very concerning. My other question is, what else was done on personal e mails, what was being hidden?
why was this happening that way? It appears to me that the chief doesn't know how to handle
her department and is incompetent based on the memo that mr. Burcham sent.
my question would be, why is she still in leadership if she can't handle her own department or
follow her own policies regarding emails and covering for corrupt officers? Thank you.
>> thank you. Next speaker is shannon sa.
>> hi. Good afternoon. My name is shannon. I'm going to piggyback off of what christine had to say.
first, I'd like to thank the commissioner, ms. Garris, and the mayor and the city manager for taking the time to look at our concerns,
but my concerns still haven't been fully answered. Let me be clear. Patricia drincard,
the person in charge of evidence, the one that you all pay $55, or we pay $55 an hour for,
deleted reported files during an open investigation. If she did not know that that was wrong,
how many other cases has she messed up? What new rules or policies have been made to
stop this from being tolerated in the future? What's going to go on with her,
and what is going to happen with discipline as for what she has done? Further, patrice has lied for over two years saying
sapd officers didn't have gps tracking. Part of what was on my usb drives that patrice deleted was gps tracking for the officers,
proving that officer baker was not where she said she was. When the clay county sheriff's office dropped off my usb drives,
she deleted that proof along with other evidence that I had collected and paid for for over two years.
the evidence that could help my son's case and prove that he was innocent,
and that patrice was dishonest, she deleted to cover up.
what is going to happen to her now? Actual punishment? Will she receive anything for what she has done?
will I receive payment back for all the money that I've spent on all this evidence?
the truth is, if she didn't know that deleting evidence was against the law, then she shouldn't be in the position over evidence at sapd,
nor should she hold any job at sapd. I requested an investigation into my deleted evidence while
the chief of police was scolded for dismissing my concern. It doesn't account for the evidence now being lost.
the actions of sapd has cost me money that I have spent on gathering this evidence.
another investigation that has been completed by the clay county sheriff's office was
around a false police report filed against me by former officer kelly baker.
donna hayes, the hr director, brought this to the attention of the city leaders back in december with proof of
specific lies that former baker had told under the penalty of perjury.
not even after being sent proof of these falsified police reports,
officer baker was still allowed to continue working with sapd as an officer without any suspension or concerns from the city leadership.
now I'm being told that the investigation is done, but I cannot see the result.
commander castine and the union lawyer greg forman are keeping it from me also.
greg forman is the same union attorney that represented officer kelly baker before her dismissal.
I was told that my complaints would be investigated by the clay county sheriff's office,
and now that additional concerns have been investigated, I am being blocked from the results.
this is a violation of the florida sunshine law and my time,
money, and energy. Thank you. >> thank you very much.
next speaker is mr. Richard marques.
>> good evening. My name is richard marques. I reside at 321 st. George street and st. Augustine and have so for 25 years.
I'm here to thank you five for what you've done. I want the people behind me to understand how much we appreciate what you've done.
the subject is the florida assertive community treatment team. They go into the field to help the mentally ill that are living on the streets.
they help them get medications. They help them getting housing, they help them get medical insurance.
across the state of florida, there's going to be a big budget cut, and this is slated for some hits across the state.
I approached you, folks, and you unanimously sent a letter to the governor.
a letter from you is going to mean so much more than a letter from me. It's also interesting that the st. Johns county commission did the same thing,
and they're sending a letter as well. To all of you, god bless. Thank you.
>> thank you very much. Next speaker is nancy murphy.
we have a couple more spots up here in the front.
just sit. I'm sorry. Sorry to interrupt.
>> no, it's okay. I'm nancy murphy, 22 vernes court.
I am grateful to be here as I serve in the position of liaison with the charter for compassion,
and compassionate st. Augustine, and compassionate st. Augustine was formed in september of 2013,
so 11 and a half years ago. I'm grateful to get to remind everyone present about the charter for compassion,
which was the foundation and continues to be the foundation for the compassionate movement,
which began about 14 years ago. The principle of compassion lies at the heart of all religious, ethical,
and spiritual traditions, calling us always to treat all others as we wish to be treated ourselves.
compassion impels us to work tirelessly to alleviate the suffering of others.
to dethrone ourselves from the center of our universe, and to put another there and to honor the inviolable sanctity of every single human being
treating everybody without exception with absolute justice, equity, and respect.
we urgently need to make compassion a clear,
luminous, and dynamic force in our polarized world.
rooted in a principled determination to transcend selfishness,
compassion can break down political, dogmatic, ideological, and religious boundaries.
born of our deep interdependence, compassion is essential to human relationships and to a fulfilled humanity.
it is the path to enlightenment and indispensable to
the creation of a just economy and a peaceful global community.
I am very happy and feel quite honored that we will be welcoming
the executive director of the international charter for compassion movement to st. Augustine next week,
and we will be hosting a celebration on april the 5th
to commemorate the fact that april 5th is international golden rule day,
and the foundation of the compassionate movement is the recognition that
the golden rule is at the foundation of all of our well being.
so I would like to invite all of you to join us at the vernes mission house at st. Cyprians,
on saturday, april 5th, for a gathering with ms. Marilyn turkovic,
the executive director of compassion at st. Augustine. She's looking forward to seeing those of you on the council
who are able to meet with her prior to that event. Thank you so much.
>> thank you. I only have one last speaker card.
I just like to say that there are folks here that submitted
cards that will be speaking during the item pertaining to nights of lights.
if there's anybody that needs to speak now and has to be excused, that's fine.
you're welcome to step forward. You turned in a card. I'll give you that last one chance to speak now.
with that said, we have one last speaker, and that's ms. Bj coldi.
>> pj colee, west city of st. Augustine. On march 17, 2025,
the bar at 20 avenida menendez gave breakfast to commissioners and 10 staff.
question, what was discussed out of the sunshine, if anything?
question, is this a yearly event? Traveling to tallahassee to bring a black museum to st. Johns county,
while elected officials in the black and white community continue to ignore the fact that the developer of the monson hotel,
32 avenida menendez continues to hide the plaque about the well publicized pool event,
which occurred there during the civil rights movement. It is a disgrace that this continues to go on.
just so everyone will know, in west city cra, we've got chickens running loose.
but if staff can't see them, we'll keep on having them run loose.
we are contacting code enforcement and trying to get it cleaned up because
I don't think any of you five get to have the chickens running loose in your neighborhood,
and we do have an ordinance to stop that. Just as a reminder,
these are empty beer cans, I don't drink, from oyster creek.
we still have a problem at oyster creek. Thank you very much.
mayor, I appreciate you letting us know that we could speak
at the 9v2 about the night of lights.
this is going to help us all have our say. Thank you very much for opening that up to us.
>> thank you. That concludes public comments.
we move on now to the consent agenda. Mr. City manager.
>> mayor, vice mayor, and commissioners, good evening. Tonight's consent agenda includes the following,
a reminder of upcoming meetings, the april 14th, 05:00 p.m. Regular city commission meeting,
the april 28th, 03:00 p.m. Community redevelopment agency meeting,
the april 28th, 04:30 p.m. Adelaide sanchez award presentation to the sisters of st. Joseph.
finally, the april 28th, 05:00 p.m. Regular city commission meeting.
we have the approval of the minutes from the january 13th and february 10th regular city commission meetings.
a release of lien for 14 [inaudible] court holistic investments llc,
and finally, approval of the expenditures of federal confiscation funds to purchase
a coil vending machine for the st. Augustine police department. That concludes the consent agenda this evening.
>> thank you. Commissioners, any objections, changes, and discussion?
>> no, but I'll make a motion to consent agenda?
>> I'll second I like that. We got a second. Any discussion?
all those in favor signify by saying, aye. >> aye. [overlapping] >> thank you. Motion carries.
we have a couple of ordinances tonight that have public hearing required on them.
we have first ordinance 2025-03.
miss skinner will present. Good evening.
>> good evening. My name is amy skinner. I'm the director of the planning and building department.
this is the second reading and public hearing of ordinance 2025-03.
this ordinance is a land use plan map amendment for approximately
0.08 acres from residential low density to commercial low intensity.
during the review process of the change of use for the proposed retail in the downstairs area of this existing building,
it was discovered that there was an inconsistency between
the zoning district and the land use designation.
the current zoning district for the property is commercial low 2 or cl-2.
during our research, we identified that this has probably been commercial since 1988, at least,
and that there was an error in the comprehensive plan designation when we updated the comprehensive plan in 2020.
this is in an effort to clean up this inconsistency.
the correct land use for the property should be commercial low intensity.
planning and zoning board reviewed this application on february 4th,
and made a positive recommendation to change the land use. The city commission passed this item on first reading on february 24th.
passage of this ordinance would correct the future land use map to change
the land use from the city designation of residential low density,
to commercial low intensity. I'm available if you have any questions.
quickly, I have some maps here where we can identify the property.
as you can see, this property is outlined in blue. It's basically one property off of san marco avenue and on locust street.
it's been commercially zoned.
the zoning map shows the pink color on the property,
this is the commercial low 2 zoning. It faces the firestone auto shop to the south.
the yellow area on this map is residential, so it does have residential behind it.
an error was made when we updated the future land use map in 2020,
designating this residential low density,
but it should be commercially zoned. This is a public hearing,
and I'm available if you have any questions. >> thank you. Commissioners, do you have any questions before we go to public hearing?
any questions? Thank you, miss skinner. I do not have any speaker cards.
does anyone here wish to speak on this matter? The public hearing is open.
hearing none, public hearing is now closed.
back to the board. Commissioners, what is your pleasure?
let's start with mr. Springfield? >> well, it makes perfect sense.
I'm happy to make a motion that we approve ordinance 2025-03,
read by title only. >> second. >> ordinance number 2025-03,
an ordinance of the city of st. Augustine, florida, amending the future land use map from designation of
approximately 0.08 acres of property located at 4 locust street,
north of locust street and east of san marco avenue as portions of the abbott tract in the city of st. Augustine,
as more particularly described hereafter, from its current designation of the city of st. Augustine residential
low density to a city designation of commercial low intensity,
providing for repeal of conflicting ordinances, providing for severance of invalid provisions,
and providing an effective date. >> any further debate, discussion?
>> no. >> madam clerk, please call the roll. >> jon depreter?
>> yes. >> barbara blonder? >> yes. >> cynthia garris? >> yes. >> jim springfield?
>> yes. >> nancy sikes-kline? >> yes. Thank you. Next item is also,
miss skinner, ordinance 2025-04. >> yes. My name is amy skinner.
I'm the director of the planning and building department. This is also a second reading and public hearing.
this ordinance is 2025-04. It is a rezoning of approximately 4.39
acres from undesignated to open land or ol in the city.
this is just a rezoning because the property was assigned a comprehensive land use plan designation of open land
during the update of the 2020 comprehensive plan,
but was not subsequently assigned a compatible zoning district.
the ol zoning district is the compatible zoning category for the open land use.
this property had been annexed into the city and
was designated through the comprehensive plan process as open land.
it is the existing fpl substation out on state road 16.
the pzb reviewed this application and held a public hearing on february 4th,
positively recommending this rezoning. This ordinance was passed on first reading by the city commission on february 24th.
passage of this ordinance would assign an open land zoning district to this property.
for your review, I do have maps that show where the property is.
again, it is the fpl substation out on state road 16.
it is within the city limits. Recently, fpl has made efforts to harden the property and upgrade the substation,
and so that's when we discovered that it hadn't been assigned to a zoning district.
the land use is open land,
and the zoning district that would be appropriate for open land is also referred to as open land.
thank you, and I'm available if you have any questions. >> commissioners, any questions, comments?
>> I'll make a motion to approve ordinance 2025-04.
>> we have a public hearing. >> I'm sorry. >> that's right. Sorry, we're rushing things a little bit here.
I do not have any speaker cards. I'm assuming no one is wishing to speak on this matter.
however, the matter is open for public comment at this time.
hearing no one, seeing no one, public comment is [noise] closed. Back to the board.
>> unless there's any discussion? >> is there any discussion,
anyone would wish to make a point? As far as I'm concerned, what this is, is another housekeeping.
>> correct. >> it's a correction. >> I think this is a clerical error. We discussed it in the first hearing,
so I'll make a motion to pass ordinance 2025-04 as read by title.
>> I'll second. >> ordinance number 2025-4,
an ordinance of the city of st. Augustine, florida, rezoning approximately 4.39 acres of property
located at 179 state road 16 in the city of st. Augustine,
as more particularly described here and after from its current undesignated classification to the city classification of open land,
ol, providing for repeal of conflicting ordinances, providing for severance of invalid provisions,
and providing an effective date. >> excellent. Any other further discussion?
madam clerk, please call the roll. >> jon depreter? >> yes.
>> nancy sikes-kline? >> yes. >> cynthia garris? >> yes. >> jim springfield? >> yes.
>> barbara blonder. >> yes. >> now we have another ordinance for first reading.
this will also be miss skinner. Will you present ordinance 2025-05?
>> yes. Thank you. This is the introduction and first reading of ordinance 2025-05.
this ordinance is a rezoning for approximately 0.34 acres from residential single family one or rs-1,
to a planned unit development, or pud. This is just a rezoning because the proposed uses for the pud are
consistent with the existing land use category of residential low density.
the owner is proposing to continue the existing uses on the site,
which include a caretaker residence office, resource library, and small meeting space.
the applicant submitted an application to rezone the property to the proposed pud.
the pzb, the planning and zoning board, reviewed this application and made a positive recommendation to
the city commission at their meeting on march 4th.
the pzb also recommended that language be added to clarify excluded uses,
that the signage would only be allowed for rs-1 regulations in the sign code,
and that language be removed in the maintenance section of the pud, referring to transferring ownership.
these changes have been made to the text of the pud.
for your information, I did pull out from the text of the planned unit development,
highlighted in yellow here, that this language is what was added after
the planning and zoning board's recommendation.
that specifically clarify that these uses are prohibited as part of this pud.
there won't be any rooming houses or boarding houses, tourist homes, bed and breakfast,
neighborhood recreational facilities, etc, offices or anything of that nature.
the existing use on the site related to a home occupation,
over the last couple of years, the occupant of the home had passed away.
their partners in their business would like to continue the use on the property as outlined in the pud.
but because they don't specifically live on the property, it can't be a home occupation.
as well, this is also the maintenance section that I pulled from the revised pud,
where it does strike the language that talks about reserving the right to transfer ownership of the pud,
or a portion to other entities. The representative for the application is also
here and he can address this in further detail. The property is 10 carrera street.
it's a large home on carrera.
this is this is the grace united methodist church right here on the corner.
there's some other single family houses in this as you go west on carrera street.
it's a little bit hard to differentiate the colors. I have a better map. But this is
the zoning map where the orange line is drawn to the east.
over here is rg-1, and where this shaded yellow area is rs-1.
the higher contrast zoning map is here.
this aquastar that I indicated here is the existing property.
you can see to the east that this color that's a little darker orange is rg-1.
all this yellow to the west in the model land area is rs-1.
we have historic district properties where flagler college is to the south,
and the historic districts to the east of cordova.
the property is off of cordova right next to grace methodist church.
the land use is in the area. The yellow is the residential low density use.
the orange is residential medium density, and the church,
even though it's zoned rg-1, does have a institutional land use category.
>> with that, if you have any questions, I'm available, and the applicant's representative is also here.
we're happy to answer any questions.
>> mr. Whitehouse, would you like to briefly present?
>> good evening, madam mayor. Commissioners for the record, james white house, st. Johns law group,
104 sea grove main street here in st. Augustine, florida.
I'm here on behalf of the owners. As amy told you,
this ownership group are the trustees for
the organization that inherited the property from the former dr. Henderson.
as you know, it's located here at 10 carrera street next to united methodist church.
again, we're here for first reading on the planned unit development. We already went to the pzb and they recommended this to unanimously.
it's basically a narrowly tailored pud to permit the compatible historical uses that have been on this property for decades.
when they inherited the property, they wanted to do the right thing,
so they came to the city and said, how can we continue to keep doing the uses? The trustees did, that is,
and the city said, well, those uses can't necessarily continue under your current rs-1 zoning,
but you could go to rg-1, which is right next door, and then you could do those uses.
I wasn't with them when they came in and applied for rg-1, it was recommended for approval by staff,
but there was several of the neighbors that came in and said, hey, listen, some of those rg-1 uses, we don't think are appropriate.
of course, the people who were doing it by themselves said, well, we didn't want to do those uses,
anyway, the pzb said, well, in that case, maybe there's a better way to do it,
and they recommended they go back and look at it and that's when they came to me and I went back and said, listen,
this is like another pud that I was just doing on riberia, which is keep doing the same things,
but we define it within the pud language specifically.
as you see from the language, I don't want to belabor the fact too much, but I'll go through it real quick.
it goes through those uses and it talks about preserving the structure that's on the site,
preserving the use that are on the site, continued maintenance of the site, not transferring the site to anyone
else or any other organization without it having to come back to the city, which are all the positives of the pud.
you guys have already reviewed. I'm sure from your packet, the history of the site and dr. Henderson and how she had been
having these uses on the site for many years. In fact, a number scholarly pursuits,
allowing educational pursuits, etc,
having the small private library and letting people come in on invitation to look at a number of those books she had,
as well as small meetings to talk about scholarly issues,
etc and that's just what they want to continue to do. As I said, initially,
it came for an rg-1 change to pzb, and it was recommended by your staff for approval.
I found that the uses that they wanted to do were consistent with our comprehensive plan.
I'll go through it all, but they thought that and recommended approval. That was for rg-1.
now that we're back for the pud, of course, they find that those are compatible as
well because they've been going on there for many years. They're compatible and accepted uses in the area,
such as the residents that you heard your staff talk about the library, the educational facility, and the small meeting area.
let me just jump forward here. Like I said, the location is an appropriate location
with this right across from flagler [noise], excuse me, right next to the church,
and then a number of parking lots in the area, as well.
since they inherited the property since this foundation did,
the trustees have fixed up the property a lot already, rewired it, etc,
and you can see that from the language of the pud. This is a direct transparent request just to continue the same uses.
it's not a request for any new uses. It's the uses that are already allowed thereon.
let me just jump forward real quick. Although the uses remain the same,
we need to as you know, from puds, define them there and we've defined them under the pud uses,
specifically talking about the uses that have been allowed there for many years. Then when we were at pzb,
they asked us to put in that prohibited use section, which we did, and those are all the rg-1 uses that
the pzb and the neighbors were concerned about at the initial hearing.
let me just skip forward. There was some questions about whether or not,
the building would remain the same or they could change it. The specific language within this,
and I'll put it up on the overhead, just maybe to address a few questions that I know came up initially.
can you switch to the overhead, mayor?
here, clearly within section 2a and b,
it talks about the maintenance of that structure that's on site and the layout will remain the same.
the applicant will be allowed to continue to utilize the current layout of
the structures and uses and maintain them going forward.
no material departures will be allowed from the current site plan that you see within your packet,
and that's the pud map, and that's here on the screen that I put up.
but that's in your packet, as well. Next, amy already talked to you about this.
there was a section that we accidentally left in was from another pud. It wasn't meant to be left in,
but we specifically took it out. It's not in there, so there's no transfer of this. Then we talked about the public benefit,
and let me pick it up so I can read it because I
can't read it from that far away and then I'll put it back down. The retention and continued maintenance of this historic property is
a grand contribution to the area and benefits to the local broader community.
keeping the property primarily residential while maintaining the scale of
historic uses that have existed compatibly on the property for decades, is one, two,
maintaining this historic, unique, and valuable library in this residential environment is two, three,
is the retention of this historic structure and the property as is, and the continued maintenance of the same as required within the pud.
finally, maintaining a compatible historical use and supporting structure that promotes the study of social,
entrepreneurship, environmental issues, and ethical governance.
all of those are public benefits. Again, you have a staff recommendation for approval,
you have a unanimous pzb recommendation that it furthers the goals objections and policies of our comprehensive plan,
and that the pud language specifically addresses the concerns of the board and the undesirable rg-1 uses as you saw.
in conclusion, we'd ask for you to approve this today on first read,
move it to second reading and public hearing, and I'm here to answer any questions. Thank you, madam mayor.
>> thank you. Any questions for mr. Whitehouse?
it's pretty clear. >> I do have a question. Good evening.
>> yes, sir. Good evening. >> when I listened to the review of this on the video,
we talked about and I looked at the sales records, I'm sorry.
there's a portion of this that was built in 1917, is that right? >> that's my understanding. Yes, sir.
>> there was talk about it was wired by thomas edison, and so I'm looking at what I discussed with you on the phone.
>> yes, sir. >> when we did the public benefit, it says, keeping the property primarily residential,
maintain the scale of historic uses. Could you talk to your clients and see if there was language,
you could say the historic structure will be preserved? >> yes, sir. The ones that I just put up were a modification of the other ones.
the other ones that I had in the pud language was part of what they drafted initially when they filed it.
I didn't redo those and I should have. Anyway, that was my fault. But the ones that I just put up,
I'll modify the ones that are in there with these because these specifically relate to what you asked about.
>> I went to property itself. It be mentioned as a public benefit? >> yes, sir.
>> great. I see that in the second hearing. Thank you. >> thank you, sir. >> any other comments or questions?
>> I want to know what the concerns were. You said there were concerns by the residents that were close in proximity?
>> yes. When we put up those prohibited uses, which I'll only go to them,
some of the uses in rg-1 that are more commercial type uses
are the ones that were the objection. When we went to the pzb for the pud hearing,
nobody showed up from the neighborhood. They all showed up before I was involved when it was just an rg-1 and here are the uses that from the language.
can you switch back, mayor? Some of the uses like rooming houses,
boarding houses, tourist homes, bed and breakfast, things that are more commercial and then all these other ones,
which, of course, they probably wouldn't do, hospitals, professional offices, other than the home office they're talking about, marinas, etc.
but I took the whole section of rg-1 uses from the code and put it in as prohibited uses. That's what they asked me to do.
all those are prohibited now, and then there won't be any concern. Like I said, we'll see, I guess at second hearing, if anybody comes,
but nobody came to the pud pcb hearing to complain after they saw what we were recommending.
>> thank you because there's a church next door to that property. I didn't know what that was.
>> yes, ma'am. >> thank you. I think this is a really good use of a pud under the circumstances.
I have myself received public benefit by
the organization and the facility there over many years with hazel henderson and
allen k. I think it's very compatible because it's something that's already been occurring there
and I think they've nailed it down very well in to what it
has been and it will continue to be.
with that, I would like to move that we pass ordinance 2025-0.
>> I'd like to add further discussion if there's a second.
>> I'll second it. >> I don't disagree with you at all, madam mayor.
I've also spent a lot of time in that center, and in fact,
on the grounds and I'm familiar with the good works of the center.
there is one thing that concerns me, however.
already, there's been a significant portion of the archives of
the hazel henderson library that are now housed at the national women and media collection at the university of missouri.
that's great. I just wonder about a succession and/or transition plan should there be an issue with this llc in the future.
could happen, because we have two trustees.
I don't see a formalized succession plan or a plan for if something should happen to the organization as a whole.
I'm thinking long-term, hopefully, not a short-term. But what I would want to see then is if we pass this,
I want to see a reverter clause added to it so that it reverts back to rs-1,
our most restrictive zoning classification,
should the use of this facility change.
well, I'm adding that as a comment. That's what I want to see.
>> well, let us look at that between now and the second hearing and see what language we can come up with.
I understand what you're saying though, exactly. Yes, ma'am. >> great. Thank you. >> I think we understand what you're trying to get at,
and so we'll see what they come up with before a second hearing. Any other comments or discussion items?
>> well, I'm glad commissioner blonder added that, that was my only concern of what happens when
this dissolves or they decide to sell the property, and I was assured that it would remain only for this particular use.
it really was restrictive, but this is probably a better idea to have it revert.
>> I think the pud language covers that because it's puds and the zoning control it,
so it's pretty clear you can only do what they're asking for, but we'll see if we can come up with
some more specific language that tries to address that better. Thank you, mayor. >> I'm going to be looking for that. Thank you.
>> any other comments, additions? Madam clerk, please, call the roll.
>> hold on. I've got to read it. >> yeah, that's right. >> we got a second. >> we did [overlapping] commissioner blonder.
>> ordinance number 2025-05 and ordinance of the city of san augustine, florida,
amending the zoning for approximately 0.34 acres of property located at 10 carrera street,
parcel id number 205300-0000,
as more particularly described here andafter, to change its current zoning classification of
residential single family rs-1 to planned unit development,
pud, providing for repeal of conflicting ordinances, providing for severance of invalid provisions and providing an effective date.
>> now, it's time, madam clerk, please, call the roll.
>> nancy sikes-kline. >> yes. >> jon depreter. >> yes. >> cynthia garris.
>> yes. >> jim springfield? >> yes. >> barbara blonder. >> yes. >> great. We're going to move on now to resolutions.
we have one resolution 2025-06. Melissa whistle, you are on deck to present.
>> good evening, mayor and commissioners. >> good evening.
>> I'm here to request the changes to the citizen awards resolution,
which defines the citizenship awards. Commissioner springfield had raised some concerns that citizenship awards were rather far
reaching and requested that we change our language to make it effective to city of st. Augustine residents.
we've modified the qualification to be a city resident or to be involved in
some form of a volunteer capacity that effects or impacts positively the city of st. Augustine,
and we are going to be working with st. John's county schools as well,
following their model of the character counts program. We've also included language to allow for home school or
other students that may not necessarily be nominated within a particular program structure through a school,
but that they could qualify if they have a letter of endorsement and appropriate qualifications.
>> excellent. Well, commissioner springfield, we appreciate you bringing this forward.
it's something we've note on for a while. It seems like this is a better solution.
commissioners, do you have comments or input?
>> no, I think it's a good idea. >> great. Well,
with that said, do I hear a motion? >> I move that that we approve resolution 2025-06.
>> I second. >> excellent. Any further discussion?
>> no. >> madam clerk, please call the roll. >> jim springfield?
>> yes. >> cynthia garris. >> yes. >> jon depreter? >> yes. >> barbara blonder? Nancy sikes-kline.
>> yes. >> thank you. >> thank you. >> thank you very much.
the big item tonight. Resolution 2025-08.
ms. Lopez, you are on that to present.
>> thank you, madam mayor, madam vice mayor and commissioners at our march 10th, 2025,
meeting the city commission directed me to draft
a resolution modifying the dates for nights of lights for this upcoming season.
before you for resolution 2025-08,
the dates would be set to commence at the saturday before thanksgiving.
that would be november 22nd, 2025, and run through the first sunday after new years,
that would be sunday, january 4th, 2026.
those are the proposed dates based on the discussion dating march 10th,
and I am here to answer any questions, although I suspect you're more interested in hearing from the community.
>> of course, we are. Yes, and we have quite a few cards to get through tonight.
I myself have received many calls, many emails over these last few months,
and of course, have been quite a bit more since the proposal was made.
I think what we need to do now go ahead and proceed with the public comment
and we can have a discussion after is if anybody would like to make a statement,
we're down to three commissioners. Everybody took a little break before we get started.
would you like to make any comments before we get started? Great. Excellent. Well,
my first speaker card as a courtesy, I would like to recognize we have special guests with us tonight.
actually, tonight, we have quite a large group of esteemed well known citizens.
but I would like to recognize commissioner clay murphy, who's here with his wife,
as well as county commissioner ann taylor, and has filled out a speaker card, out of courtesy,
I would offer you to kick it off tonight.
welcome and good evening. >> yes. Thank you so much. I must say I love the evening meetings.
I love seeing so many people. That's great. But thank you very much.
what I wanted to share is I am county commissioner in district 5,
which does include the city of st. Augustine. Your constituents are also my constituents.
I have received, many emails from residents in our county regarding the night of lights.
similar to each of you. Most referenced frustration with traffic and parking.
I have not received one message, however, just mentioning or suggesting that night lights be shortened at all.
that out of all the suggestions I've received that was definitely not mentioned.
in fact, since shortening the duration has come up, I've actually heard from residents that it will actually make
it busier and have the opposite effect. Local residents in our county like myself,
like the option of going later in january after the holidays.
we actually do all we can to avoid the busier times when there are more visitors from out of town here.
we love having that option that we can go later on in january. Also, too, I just want to remind everyone that the number 1 industry,
in our county, in st. Johns county it's tourism.
we need to support this industry. We need to think about the employees.
we need to think about business owners that will be affected by a big loss in income if this were to go through.
most employees do not live here locally in the city limits, and they will be detrimentally affected if this ordinance were to pass.
thank you for your time. God bless. Thank you. >> thank you very much.
appreciate you speaking. Lynn weeks.
what I'm going to do tonight is, and by the way, we have a spot up front,
if anyone would like to sit, I do see one seat up front. What I like to do is call out two names so that everybody can get ready to speak.
I'm going to call out lynn weeks, and then after him, will be janette caballero.
so janette, you'll be ready to speak as soon as he's finished.
that way, I think it might expedite things since we have so many speakers tonight,
and welcome, good to see you, lynn. >> thank you very much, mayor and commissioners. I'm glad to be here.
as you can tell from my shirt, this was the shirt that we printed the very first nights of lights in st. Augustine 31 years ago.
it was a project started by former city commissioner bill lennon and myself, and we're very proud of it.
I don't know if some of you remember, but back 31 years ago,
the streets used to roll up at five o'clock in downtown, st. Augustine. It was a constant struggle to get business to
stay open downtown at night after the courthouse moved.
I think this is a good time for us to stop and think about how we can make this better.
I do not believe shortening it is the answer. I do believe that some new management techniques is what we need to work on.
I want to commend david for having a meeting with the stakeholders
in the business community to outline some of the recommendations that he has, and I think they're very solid recommendations.
I know that the residents and the businesses, some of them have complained about the traffic and congestion.
I got caught in it myself numerous times coming downtown, but it was not every night for 45 days.
or 65, however long it is. It was about six really busy days on the weekends around christmas,
new years, and in between. It wasn't as bad as the whole time of nights of lights.
shortening it those extra days, I don't think that was the busy time. I don't know.
that's like ann said, that's the time of year that the locals come down.
I'm here today to say, please, let's take this opportunity to work together.
we want to enhance and highlight a positive visitor experience for our guests,
for our businesses, for our residents. I would like to just say on behalf of myself as
a local taxpayer, even though I don't live here, I pay a lot of property taxes in the city of st. Augustine and
I sometimes get offended when taxpayers are not considered businesses because we certainly pay a lot of money in taxes and
the business that is generated through nights of lights is what allows us to be able to do that in some large part.
I'm here to say on behalf of the st. Augustine business coalition. Many businesses here, myself,
that we want to work together with the city to make things better for the future.
we don't want to shorten it, we want to make it better, and I think this is a good opportunity for us all to work together. Thank you.
>> thank you very much. Janette caballero, and I hope I said that right followed by ed swift.
>> good evening, janette caballero 105 colon avenue, st. Augustine.
I'm here to echo, I think, a very similar sentiment as a local business owner
and a tourism professional in downtown st. Augustine,
I benefit from the holiday season and the festivities. I sing at many holiday parties and restaurants throughout
downtown and I own a restaurant as well downtown at 45 san marco.
I do think given the way the weeks fall certain years where the day of the holiday is earlier in the week.
those weekends get really congested. I'm not sure that shortening
the entire holiday season for nights of lights will help that.
I think part of it is just what day christmas falls on, what day new year's falls on within the context of the seven days of the week.
I know forecasting business trends on my side of things, I definitely see an uptick when
the earlier days of the week are represented by a holiday the weekend is slam packed.
people go to their airbnbs, they find their family, they do that part on the monday, tuesday,
and then that thursday, friday is insane. That happened this year.
I think it is worth noting just in forecasting calendar trends.
I definitely think there are ways to improve upon nights of lights. It's something that I think is very beloved within
the community and garners a lot of community support, as mr. Week said as well.
I think that the locals and a lot of people throughout january and that other side of nights of lights get to participate a little bit more.
I appreciate your consideration, and it's been nice talking.
>> thank you. Next speaker is ed swift,
followed by mike head.
>> good evening, mayor. Council members, edwin swift iv 2591 hydrangea street,
st. Augustine, florida 32080. I think I know some of you,
but just in case you don't know me, I own a few businesses here in st. Augustine,
including old town trolley tours, the orange and green trolleys here in the city.
I can tell you we lived that traffic every single day out there while
we ran our tours and did everything we could,
but we do agree that the traffic has increased this last year.
part of the issue though with the traffic increasing was that we actually had 10 fewer operating days for nights of lights,
meaning the event between 2023 and 2024 was shrunk by 10 days.
what happened because it's a regional event, st. Augustine is famous worldwide,
but honestly, this is a regional event. We track a lot of different numbers.
we're getting a lot of people from jacksonville, gainesville, the surrounding counties, clay county,
all these different wonderful putnam county, people coming in regionally. When we compress the days and added in the great weather that we had,
we just had perfect weather on the peak nights, these 10 nights that we keep talking about that are very,
very busy and cause the backed up traffic, the gridlock. That compression of the days by 10 days increased that traffic on the remaining days.
if you take away more days, we already did that last year, and it resulted in people coming on the available days.
if you shorten the festival, it'll just happen again. That's my personal opinion,
but I think we tried it this last year, coupled with the great weather. It was wonderful, unbelievable,
perfect weather on the key days, and that's why you saw a huge increase in traffic in my opinion.
I also believe that we should give the city staff,
and especially the city manager who's just done fantastic work to hear you,
and in january, started working on a traffic control plan. It's looking pretty good.
great suggestions by a lot of stakeholders and residents into what they've been working on,
and to go ahead and pass this ordinance without trying some traffic control measures first,
I think is a little premature. Especially since we just went through compressing the days by 10,
and you saw the result of that, again, coupled with great weather just my opinion.
thank you for your time. I very much appreciate it. >> thank you. Next speaker is mike head followed by kurt gather.
>> madam mayor, vice mayor and commissioners. My name is mike head and I represent
the 230 local hourly team members of the columbia restaurant at 98 st. George street,
where we have been proudly part of the community since 1983,
as well as the fourth and fifth generations of the gonzmart family that's owned the whole time.
in business, when you have a demand that outpaces your capacity,
we refer to that as a good problem to have. We're happy to be part of this good problem with you and
I think that we can figure it out together. Our job is to generate as much taxable revenue as possible to help pay
for infrastructure projects to solve this problem. I believe that you'll find if some have already mentioned that
shortening the nights of lights will exacerbate the issue by driving everyone that has now made it a tradition to come here all into one condensed time frame.
nights of lights is a critical economic driver and actually brilliant as it drives business at
a time that most retail and hospitality businesses see a lull those last few weeks of january,
yet here they all still come. Yes, we need to come up with ingenious ways to move
and park and transport visitors and locals, but we shouldn't tell them to stop coming while we build our project,
build our bridges and parking garages for the fear that they
may find another place to have a tradition with their family and not return.
please consider exploring alternative solutions to mitigate traffic and construction concerns while preserving
the full duration of nights of lights through the last week of january. Thank you for your consideration.
>> thank you. Kurt gather, followed by john,
I'm going to spell this t-f-j-I-d-o,
but first we have kurt gather. The card says he might be outside.
can someone please check?
>> he's on the phone. >> he's on the phone? We can come back to him.
john I'm so sorry about that.
I can hardly read your spelling and so. >> tfjido.
>> tfjido, great. Thank you apologies. >> hi, good evening. My name is john tfjido,
and I live at 132 blanco street. I've lived there since 2019,
but I was a resident back in the '80s. I was actually a public defender in town for three years,
and so I worked in what used to be the courthouse in the first union bank building.
I don't have any personal agenda or bias here on this issue.
I just happened to find out there was a meeting tonight. I thought I'd come in and share at least a homeowner's perspective.
I walked downtown with my wife almost every day. During the nights of lights, forgive me.
sure, there's more people. But I've noticed that during the week, there's very few people, to me,
it's not a good thing for the city. I like to go to maybe a bar once in a while during the week and actually
find that there's more than 10% capacity or 20% capacity.
my sister back in 1988 owned a restaurant over on
davis shores was probably the first real spanish restaurant you guys ever had.
unfortunately, it went out of business about 2.5 years later, not because of the food, because it was excellent the food.
it was a chef from province in galicia, spain that cooked there.
I used to cook in newark for some of the better restaurants there, and it went out of business because there wasn't any tourist.
nobody was going over the bridge. >> I wonder what the nights of lights was going on during
that time frame that whether that business would have still been open or not.
but I'm not here to hoarp about her. The point is, though,
I like to go downtown; I like to see people. This is a tourist city,
and a tourist city needs tourists. When my friends come to visit or my family,
we like to go and just watch the crowds. I get that there's an issue with cars and traffic and all that.
I deal with it. I don't like it myself. I'm from jersey. That's why I'm here now. But I think it's tolerable.
I think there's a balance here. I think we can all achieve a delicate balance, but shutting these nights of lights down for whatever 20 days,
whatever you guys are proposing, seems silly. I don't think it's a cost issue because I'm sure you're generating
enough revenue during the time that you have a city the nights of lights going on.
from my personal perspective, I've seen a number of businesses, including the a one a ale house,
which is now what closed for four months. That's one of the primary corners downtown,
and it's just shut down. If you go during the week downtown, you're not going to see that many people.
it's really not that crowded. I think I echo the same sentiment some of the other speakers.
you're going to get crowds on the weekends and you're going to get crowds when it's a special event.
you're going to get crowds on fourth of july. That's just what we live in a tourist city.
what do we want? Would I like to go back to 1988? Maybe, but probably not.
but again, I think you folks need to really look at this issue a little more closely,
get a little more public input. Throw out some numbers because all I'm hearing, it's going to cost a city 300 some extra thousand or whatever.
I don't know what you're generating tourist revenue during the city night of lights.
>> thank you very much. >> thank you. >> we appreciate it. Next speaker is robert barner followed by schaffer weeks.
we will come back to mr. Kurt gather in a little bit.
>> good evening, madam mayor, commissioners. My name is robert barner. I live at 101 marine street.
I own with my daughter at 38 cordova, the old powder house,
and I'm under contract for 131 king street, the rembrandt property.
we survive, literally survive by tourism,
and we survive through night of lights, makes a tremendous difference in our ability to stay in
business and not be like the corner property that went out of business.
you have an incredible opportunity to continue this to groups that come in,
I know personally from tallahassee orlando, much more than just this region, northeast florida region.
I'll be short and quick and say, we hope you will consider continuing this and
even expanding it back to what it was. Thank you. >> thank you. Next speaker is schaffer weeks,
followed by kurt gather. Will somebody, please let mr.
gather know we're going to be calling on him. >> taller. Hello. I don't have to swear in,
do I? Good evening. I'm schaffer weeks, and I am strongly
against the motion presented to shorten nights of lights. I'm a resident of the city of st. Augustine,
a person of the deep sense of community, and I have someone that was born in st. Augustine and live here most of my life.
I can speak on behalf of many of my neighbors, my friends, and my family that I've talked
with on this issue when I say that we love nights of lights. We are proud of nights of lights and is a large part of why
we're proud to live in st. Augustine and be a part of this community. I'm a resident of st. Augustine,
but also a general contractor who works primarily in downtown st. Augustine, and just had my wedding a few years ago at the treasury here in downtown st. Augustine,
and I understand the perspective from all these different categories. The perspective as a resident,
a business perspective, and a hospitality perspective. As a resident, nights of lights provides
a massive stimulation to the economy that we get to enjoy all the benefits of and
the options of many things to do in st. Augustine all throughout the year. In business, it's our busiest time of year leading up to nights of lights,
preparing for the influx of travelers who are thrilled to visit our city and see its magnificence.
as the nation's oldest city, we pride ourselves on history and leading by example in historic preservation.
as a general contractor, we specialize in historic renovations, often working on these projects for many months and sometimes years.
these projects, many times rely on the boost in the economy from nights of lights to make these historic preservation projects feasible.
I ask that you consider all the many implications of what we're discussing here today.
sorry about that. I know that we can come up with more creative and pragmatic solutions
that better serve st. Augustine and we can benefit from these ideas throughout the entire year.
the motion that we're considering passing tonight would make the traffic and congestion as many people have
previously said worse on any given day during the proposed revised nights of lights agenda season.
it is not a solution to suggest that we just keep dealing with the traffic and lack of parking,
but for a shorter amount of time. I do believe that we can do better to solve the traffic congestion issues in downtown,
st. Augustine that exist all throughout the year. But regardless, if this motion passes or doesn't pass,
nights of lights doesn't start for another seven plus months. We have many more city commission meetings and opportunities to create
better and more comprehensive resolutions to improve the traffic and congestion issues in downtown,
st. Augustine that exist all throughout the year. As a resident, if you're truly here to solve
the frustration voiced by residents like myself, the frustration has nothing to do with
the duration of nights of lights and has everything to do with implementing better techniques to manage
this incredible and widely appreciated event. Thank you. >> thank you very much.
next speaker, kurt gather, followed by karen zander.
mr. Gather. Last chance, mr.
gather. I'll put this card aside just in case.
karen zander, followed by cheryl jonas.
>> thank you. Karen zander, speaking for the st. Augustine business coalition,
62 hypota street 32084. In reading your resolution,
it states that you have exceptional circumstances with the upcoming nights of lights,
and that's absolutely correct, you do. But your exceptional circumstances are
not the king street bridge project, because let's face it. You've had several years to plan,
prepare how to manage that. Rather, your exceptional circumstances the city of st.
augustine has are its exceptional local business owners.
your exceptional circumstances are that you have local businesses owned by
local business people who are part of your local community.
your exceptional circumstances are that you have local business owners who live right here
and who want to help solve any issues that the city identifies for nights of lights or any other concerns.
your exceptional circumstances are that those business leaders are ready,
willing, and able to work with the city to understand the problems, to brainstorm on solutions,
and to spend the time, energy, and money to help make st. Augustine a better place
for businesses, visitors, and residents. Use them, please.
take advantage of the exceptional circumstances you have in this city.
businesses can't address problems if we don't know they exist.
the city's own nights of lights report identified issues that the city sees from last year's event.
nowhere in that report did it mention the length of time nights of lights ran?
it didn't mention the color of lights or the placement of lights on buildings.
if those are other issues are something you determine you need corrected,
tell the business community. We want to be part of the solution, but we can't solve what we don't know our issues.
this resolution feels like a knee jerk reaction that addresses none of
the concerns outlined by your own staff's nights of lights report.
the st. Augustine business coalition has the leadership team in
place to create solutions to concerns the city has with nights of lights.
you know that. You know who we are. You know how to reach us.
the st. Augustine business coalition stands ready, willing, and able to work with the city to
effectively address concerns about nights of lights and be part of your solution.
please take advantage of that exceptional circumstance.
ask us for help. We look forward to working with you. Thank you.
>> excuse me. Thank you. Cheryl jonas, followed by judy glazebrooke.
>> I push anything. >> you'll just pull the microphone down closer to your mouth. Thanks.
>> I work at a hotel downtown, st. Augustine, and I don't think shortening the nights of lights is going to solve the problem at all.
if it does anything it's going to hurt the people who live and work here and depend on that extra income they get during that time of the year.
there are other solutions to the problem. I've known of people that have been coming here for over 20 years
with their families for the nights of lights. They love it. Shortening it isn't going to help solve the problem.
there's got to be another solution. Thank you.
>> thank you. Judy glazebrooke, followed by lenny zanello.
>> hello. Judy glazebrooke, 30 rody avenue.
first, I want to commend vice mayor barbara blonder for at
least trying to find an answer to a very serious problem.
unfortunately, the cutback in the nights of light, as other people have talked about,
cutting back the time, it's only going to funnel and squeeze more people into a smaller window of time,
and it won't change the number of people wanting to visit. It will only aggravate the traffic problems.
if it's true that a consultant that will not have
meaningful solutions ready to implement for 2025,
then what are you going to do now? I'm wondering what you'll do to protect the visitors and the citizens.
we have some really serious safety issues with the traffic and other problems that the nights of light has created.
in my neighborhood, cars were in face-offs with each other,
and they weren't able to get down the street because there was nowhere to pull over.
some of the driveways that they would normally pull into to try to pass one another.
they were even blocked with illegally parked cars.
with this situation, we're creating problems with the emergency vehicles,
and I can't see when a street is like a parking lot,
how an emergency vehicle is going to be able to get down it. I'm fearing that there's a tragedy waiting to happen.
if you're hoping that not as many visitors will come in
2025 or that more porta potties or garbage cans will solve the traffic problems?
can you guarantee that the problems of 2024 will not repeat in 2025? I don't think so.
it seems like every time I turn on my news feed, I'm hearing how friendly st. Augustine is,
I'm seeing how festive it is, I'm seeing how welcoming it is,
how historic it is, and did you know that during the holidays,
st. Augustine is the merriest place on earth? Well, if you can't guarantee that we're going to have less visitors,
then what's the plan? I see that the only solution is to temporarily
suspend the nights of light until you have a permanent solution.
a message to the business community. We want you to succeed.
many residents enjoy the great restaurants and all the fun of visiting a vibrant downtown.
but for those of you who promote, bigger, and longer and aren't willing to recognize the serious problems,
please remember the old saying. Pigs get fat, hogs get slaughtered.
again, please temporarily suspend the late nights of lights. >> thank you. Lenny zanello,
followed by sandra weber.
I'm going to hand you break.
>> hello. My name is lenny zanello. I'm the general manager at harry seafood bar and grill,
here in st. Augustine. I'm here representing my staff as well as my business.
I do have two team members that wish to make it tonight, but couldn't.
they have written some letters and asked me if I'm able to read those on their behalf.
the first is dearest commissioners. I'm currently a employee at harry seafood bar and grill for 12 years now.
as we all know, with the inflation rates of groceries and rents,
keeping a steady income is a necessity to stay afloat.
it's hard for us hourly employees throughout the year to make ends meet. Nights of lights is the busiest time of the year for us.
we look forward to that time of the year to be able to provide good christmas for our children.
losing four weeks of nights of lights will definitely impact st. Augustine families as a whole.
this is the only time of the year we can exhale from everyday struggles due to the cost of living.
without it, my kids won't be able to make it to the sporting events throughout the year. As there will be no extra money to provide these resources to do so.
please take the families who are earning a living downtown into consideration before making this drastic change.
making this change could cost a lot of families grief. Sincerely kim pagan.
another employee is victor montez.
I'm writing for you today to express my concern regarding shortening your nights of lights as a restaurant employee,
who has been working on our beautiful downtown area for more than seven years, I rely strictly on increased tourism during nights of lights
for a significant portion of my annual income.
a reduction of this major yearly event will have a significant impact for my family and the people that count on this financially.
as most of you probably know, our downtown is not busy all year round.
the extra money we earn during these nights of lights helps our family get throughout the year during the slow season without any worries.
concerned that a shortened season could lead to a reduction in revenue for some of the businesses in our downtown,
potentially resulting in layoffs or reduced staffing. I strongly believe that shortening the events will not fix the issue.
on the contrary, it will make for worse as more people will come during these fewer times, making it busier.
not to mention the later days of january are best times for locals to go out once the crowds dropped,
and some after the first week of january. Additionally, everyone knows that the cost of living keeps going up.
the cost every day seems like groceries, rent, utility increases so often,
making it harder for families to maintain their standard of living. Us tipped employees like living downtown
need the nights of lights to never go through these times. I respectfully ask for the members of the board of commissioners to take this into
consideration before making a final decision, respectfully victor montez.
most of our businesses. Thank you. >> thank you very much.
sandra weber, followed by michael weber.
>> good evening. I'm sandra weber and live at 15 saragossa street.
as I'm sure you know, saragossa street is just two streets south of the parking garage.
when that fills up, we're ground zero for watching people drive back and forth.
having said that, I can tell you firsthand that traffic was not a problem in january.
we never have issues being backed up and not even on saturdays.
I would say that shortening it in january is not going to solve a problem because there isn't one.
what concerns me is that it could create a problem. I have a business on avenida menendez,
I have 22 employees, and I'm very proud to say that we have never had to do a layoff,
not during covid, not during the five storms that damaged our in.
however, if january becomes another negative income month,
and there are a lot of them. [laughter] I don't know how I can keep my entire team employed for the full year.
I and my team of employees rely on january tourism.
as a lot of other people have said, I do think it's important to remember that the people who come in january
and I have a small in and we had 800 people stay in january.
they're all going to come in december, because they have a family tradition and they like to come back every year.
I'd ask that you please focus on solving the traffic problems and not creating new issues. Thank you.
>> thank you. Michael weber followed by kiara carmichael.
>> good evening, madam mayor and commissioners. My name is mike weaver.
I'm the president of st. Augustine historic inns. My home address is 15 saragossa street,
and business address is 142 avenue to menendez. I'm here tonight representing our association that includes
12 inns and over 120 employees. I'm going to focus primarily on the proposal to
end nights of lights on january 4th this coming year. Nights of lights is a huge deal for small businesses.
I don't have pre-nights of lights occupancy data, but I do have data that goes back as far as 2007.
when nights of lights was nothing near the event that it is now. From 2007 to today,
our occupancy in january has increased 37%.
when we bought our inn in 2010, january was one of the slowest months.
we used to run $99 room specials to try to get anyone to stay.
needless to say $99 a room won't even pay for eggs today,
so we can't go back to that. The turnaround in january for industry has been huge,
and it's also been a big deal for staffing. Years ago, there was no way for us to hire more people in december.
then keep them busy in january. When you're dropping from an 80% occupancy down to 40%-50%,
in december, you just say, we got to make this work with who we've got.
picking january up has given us a bridge to get from
december to our high season of the spring, and we'd like to see that continue.
now, all this being said, as many of the b&b owners, I'm a resident of st. Augustine at all,
I'm not going to stand here and say that we don't have a traffic problem during nights of lights.
living on saragossa street, I get to see the problems firsthand,
but the problems don't happen randomly on tuesdays and wednesdays or january.
they happen on saturdays, primarily in december and mostly between 6:00 and 8:00 pm.
many of those saturdays, my wife and I see cars gridlocked out front of our house,
and we can't get out to route one if we wanted to. But that's only then.
it's a traffic issue then. By doing something in january, that's not going to address that issue.
january saturday is really no busier than a march saturday.
it's probably less busy. If this resolution is passed,
and this is all we do to address the nights of lights traffic issues this year.
next december on saturday evenings, we'll have the same gridlock traffic.
no problems will be solved for our residents, but new problems will be created for our businesses. Thank you.
>> thank you very much. Here, kiara carmichael followed by leonard pelzer.
>> hi. My name is kiara carmichael, and I'm a server at casa reina,
and I have been for three years. Night of lights is a lot of the reason why we have stayed around so long.
it is very important to me as a server that we do not take away weeks of night of lights.
there's been a few times with hurricanes when downtown is shut down,
and we lose out on work, and a lot of us depend on having our savings
from night of lights to make it through working down there. That's all I have to say. Thank you.
>> thank you very much. Leonard pelzer, followed by shannon smith.
>> good evening. I want to thank all of you for the service.
I don't know why you do it, but we really, really appreciate it. My name is leonard pelzer.
I live at 31 spanish street. I came to st. Augustine in 1945.
I came to the east coast hospital, stayed a few days, and then went to live with my grandmother on south whitney street.
now, for those of you who are not good at math.
that's about 80 years. Next week is my birthday and anybody who wants [laughter] to send me a birthday present,
I will happily accept it. I grew up here,
I went to school here. I remember riding down st. George street in my car and parking on st. George street.
I remember craig's funeral, craig's furniture store, western auto.
kixi's men shop, the seafarer restaurant.
none of those places are there now, and a lot of others are gone as well. I married the prettiest girl in town,
and she says she hopes my iq will get to 80 someday. We moved away for a job,
lived a long time away, did all my college education away.
we came back home in 2007 and built a house on our street,
and we have our neighbors. We go across the street every afternoon and we sit on the porch.
we welcome our visitors to the city. We tell them where the good places are to eat,
we help them find directions. It's not a big city, but people have a hard time finding their way around here.
I listen to these things tonight. I hear a lot of people who want to keep it as long as it is,
a lot of people who would like to expand it. Some people would like it to be year round.
as a resident who gets landlocked during this time of europe, I would love to cut it back a bit and
we want it to be perfect and we want it to be beautiful, and we want people to come.
we love our visitors. They are our tourists. They're great people. We love them. But we want the residents to enjoy the city too.
we ally landlocked during that time of year. My wife went out to get something for a drop in we were going to the other night.
she went to the store and it took her 2 hours to get there and get back. [laughter] she missed the event.
we ate all the things that she bought.
I think that st. Augustine is for everybody.
we just want to hold it all to ourselves. We love the tourist.
we try to be good host and we want to be good host.
but we want this to be a city for residents, too. I live in what I think might be the last residential area in town on spanish street,
and it's just wonderful being downtown and visiting [noise] with the people. Thank you so much.
>> thank you. Shannon smith, followed by scott york.
shannon left. Scott york,
followed by jackie hurd. [noise]
>> scott york 29 spanish street, the most charming street in st. Augustine. Henry flagler first turned on electric lights here in
this town [noise] way back in 18 87. Ever since he opened this very building in which we sit
tonight as his beautiful hotel alcazar, the entire state of florida has been a mega for visitors around
the world to come and visit during a period that we call winter. Why did they choose to come here to st. Augustine?
our weather. I don't know how many of you walked around our magical little town this week.
but the weather has been absolutely gorgeous, but our crowds of visitors and traffic have rivaled that of nights of lights.
our charming town, which was recently and rightfully named the most welcoming city in america.
are we going and tell our shopkeepers and business owners to quit being so
kind to our visitors because we're too crowded in the spring? I hope not.
our beautiful and convenient location, just two hours from orlando,
which by the way, is overcrowded during the week between christmas and new year's as well.
the unique architecture of our buildings, which got highlighted by the nights of lights, including this one,
which showcases so much of our rich and diverse cultural and history. The history.
we got a bit of that too. Nearly seven million visitors a year, which come here year round to st. Augustine on school field trips,
family vacations, and snowbirds escape in the frigid north. A nearly one million hispanic visitors which visit here, studying their culture.
I'm not here to tell you not to shorten nights of lights, but to point out that shortening the time that the lights
are on does not do one thing to solve the issues of those emails that you received
complaining about traffic of nights of lights.
what will solve some of those issues? Better event planning, which mr. Burcham has been tasked with.
I certainly do not envy him. Approving and following the plan, which city planner jacob fredrickson came up with,
calling for eliminating many of those small lots and infilling them with buildings.
streamlining the parking process. It still takes a long time to get into that parking garage.
the plate readers don't work. I get charged $20 at least three times a week going in there? They don't work.
making the town more pedestrian friendly and promoting the town as
a pedestrian friendly city through all of the vcb and tdc promotions,
requiring that to be part of their promotions. That will get people out of their cars,
promoting midweek visits in those ad campaigns, eliminating the street vendors from our sidewalks and side streets,
and moving some of our signature events from weekends to mid-week to incentivize those mid-week visits.
I love living and working in downtown, meeting the employees of many of these businesses on a daily basis,
not just the owners but their employees. Don't take us back to the dark ages. Keep the nights lights on.
>> thank you. Jackie hurd, followed by james greaves.
>> hello. I'm jackie hurd. I live downtown.
I've been a resident since 1988, and I've been a business owner since 2004.
I have both sides of the business. Despite the horrendous traffic gridlock issue during nights lights,
I agree with all those speakers and don't feel that restricting the dates will be the solution.
what I do see as part of the problem is the gridlock and the parking. I've personally been stuck in the gridlock numerous times and observed cars trying to
utilize the single lane between both sides of the street that's used for parking.
[noise] a possible solution would be for the city to assess
traffic flow on streets for single-side parking and or one direction traffic.
this would allow for traffic to flow each more easily and room for emergency vehicles to respond timely.
the florida department of transportation bridge replacement of san sebastian river on king street could
be an informal dry run for nights of lights season to identify future solutions.
I'd also like to ask the city for residents to be invited to work on the solutions,
not just the business community. Thank you for your time. >> thank you. James greaves,
followed by phil sacha tallie. I think I set that right. There you go.
>> she left. [laughter] I'm james greaves.
I'm representing pizzalley's llc out of 117 st. George street.
we operate prohibition kitchen, roosevelt room, pizzalley's and pizza chianti room,
and we are directly impacted by the business nights of lights brings to us.
not just our business, but mostly I'm here to talk about our people who work for us.
I spent 15 years working nights of lights as a inside of the kitchens on the lines.
I firsthand know how crucial this time of year is for us. Much of my career, I lift paycheck to paycheck,
raising three kids and relying on the holiday surge just to stay afloat.
nights of lights made a real difference back then, and today, I see it doing the same for my employees.
our team is just made up of job titles, but they're people with real lives and real responsibilities.
servers, bartenders, cooks, dishwashers, hostesses, all of them depending on the extra income the nights bring.
I think we all touched on what everybody's going to say.
as far as I'm concerned, shortening it wouldn't alleviate much of the issues,
but finding solutions together to further increase the parking and those types of logistics would help.
our staff can't even make it to work on time. Whether that's by choice or by parking. I don't know.
[laughter] it seems to be a good excuse. Thanks for hearing me out.
this looks awful. Thanks for doing it. Have a good one. >> thank you. Next, we have william cush.
I think I might have messed that up, but if we could have william cush and then jordan stokes.
phil, come on up, and then we'll have william cushion. [background] sorry about that.
>> hi. I am phil sacatello. I represent casa reina and our employees at one anderson circle.
nights of lights follows the slowest months of the year, and it helps our team members catch up on
their income that they've lost through the hot months of the summer. Most restaurants have seasonal employees.
our staff size remains the same throughout the year, and an event driven business like nights of lights
sustains our ability to keep our team members year round.
we employ roughly the same numbers of team members year round and their income increases proportionally with the business.
our team members also benefit from increase in hours and overtime and tips.
if you compare sales, if you compare the business from october to january,
our sales and tips increase proportionally by greater than 50%,
meaning both the business and its employees benefit equally, and we feel strongly that nights of lights is
a major contributor to our success in january. In other markets, we see a dip in january due to
the cold weather back to school, buyer fatigue, but nights of lights helps us to continue to increase employee income and sales.
the peak congestion time, as everybody mentioned, is from thanksgiving to christmas.
january is still busy, but it's not nearly as busy. The weeks after the holidays allow those who want to avoid the larger crowds
like myself and my family to come in, locals, snowbirds, etc.
the business itself, we invest heavily in nights of lights.
we need to recoup our investment as well. We pay thousands of dollars,
putting up lights, taking down lights. We run promotions based around nights of lights and paying for ads,
whether print or social media, and they cost tens of thousands of dollars and
additional thousands of dollars with the maintenance of the lights and getting them up and down.
we need to keep nights of lights going. Thank you.
>> thank you, phil. Mr. Cushin.
you will be followed by jordan stokes.
>> hello. My name is william cushin. I'm with country carriages.
a lot of everybody spoke about most of the stuff that we
need to talk about the traffic in january isn't anything compared to december.
I think our biggest thing is getting people to help out.
prime example, I was instructed by one of the city employees that for the crossing guards,
they either have to be a city employee or they have to be a police department employee that cost several hundreds of dollars a night to do.
you can do a program as simple as taking some volunteers.
myself, I would donate a few days every nights of lights with no problem to help get the traffic through.
the police can certify you, and there's a lot of people in this town that would help
out to solve the problems that the city has.
but all we hear about is you got an advisor
that costs thousands of dollars and then we don't do anything about it.
lose in january, everybody knows it's going to
cost the businesses in town thousands upon thousands of dollars.
the only way to do this right is just to get traffic through town, which means we just need volunteers and helpers that you guys could have
certified by the police department to get the traffic taken care of.
the pedestrians when they start walking across the street, everybody knows you can have traffic backed up over the bridge of
lions because they're just steadily walking across and they won't stop.
that's all I have to say. Thank you. >> thank you very much.
may we have jordan stokes come up and followed by isabelle renault.
>> good evening, jordan stokes, representing the casa monica resort and spa.
just want to take a moment and thank everybody. We've talked about nights of lights quite a bit at this point,
so I don't know that I have a lot to add, but I just appreciate everybody taking the time to listen to us as business owners,
to listen to us as employers. Also to listen to the residents that are here.
thank you all so much for taking that. I don't think I have a whole lot to add other than,
I appreciate the city spending some time investigating this and looking into ways to make it better.
that is my only request is that we look, how do we make it better versus how do we shorten it or how do we make changes that
make it positive for all of us as business owners, residents, and employers?
thank you all so much for that time. Thank you to the city. Mr. Burcham. I know rubin and meredith have worked hard a lot,
some of the other internal meetings that have happened that I've had the opportunity to be a part of.
I just appreciate that time, and I encourage you to continue to do the hard work that
you're doing right now to see how we make this better for all of us. Thank you so much. I appreciate it.
>> thank you. Ms. Renault, followed by pat debose.
>> good evening, mayor and commissioner. My name is isabelle renault. I'm the president and ceo of the st. Johns county chamber of commerce,
representing 1,000 businesses county wide and 250 in the city of st. Augustine.
I appreciate the opportunity to share with you the perspective on the proposed resolution.
for 30 years, nights of lights has been one of st. Augustine's most successful and
impactful events created to support local businesses through the slow winter month.
today generates 25% of our hospitality sector's annual income,
supports thousands of local jobs and contributes millions in sales and backed taxes to the city budget.
that success, however, has naturally brought new challenges,
particularly around mobility and traffic management. The chamber believes that the challenge we're facing is not the event itself,
but the growing strain on the infrastructure impacting public safety, residents quality of life, and visitor experience.
these are solvable problems, and we're ready to work alongside the city, the county,
and other stakeholders to develop long term solutions.
other cities face similar challenges. Barcelona, spain recently made headlines for tackling the same issue and
adopting a comprehensive tourism and mobility plan.
that prospect that protects both economic benefits and the residents quality of life.
collaboration was key, and our local businesses in the community is ready to do the same here for st. Augustine.
what's needed is a thoughtful planning, not a short term work around.
simply shortening nights of lights may not solve the problem. In fact, it could intentionally worsen
congestion by squeezing the same number of visitors into fewer days.
we're also mindful of the king street bridge construction, which may discourage locals for patronizing downtown businesses.
during that time, companies will rely even more on the economic boost nights of lights provides.
for many small downtown businesses, night a lights is a last and best chance each year to
recover from hurricane season losses and finish the year strong.
shortly in the season threaten the fragile balance and puts jobs at risk.
finally, we support city manager, david burcham, effort to implement and test mobility
improvements during the upcoming 4th of july festivity. We respectfully ask the commission to give that process the time it needs to succeed.
for all these reasons, the chamber urges the commission to oppose this resolution
reducing the event to november 22 through january 4. If the commission moves forward,
we ask that you consider the length of the reduction of january as money locals value enjoying the event during that time,
and also the potential reduction of salaries for our employees.
beyond today's vote, we believe that the greater priority is coming to long term solution.
we respectfully ask the city, the county, the stakeholders to work together on lasting improvement that protects our resident,
support our economy, and ensure a continued success for the nights of lights. Thank you.
>> thank you very much. Pat debose, followed by clay murphy.
>> good evening, pat debose, 243 charlotte street. I am a resident and I am a business owner.
I just want to reiterate what everyone has said that condensing this wonderful event into a shorter time is
only going to exacerbate the traffic and everything. I appeal to you to please, if not,
maybe give some thought to extending it earlier into november as well, but keep it in january so all of our businesses can survive. Thank you.
>> thank you. Clay murphy, followed by irvin cass. Welcome.
>> good morning, mayor and commissioners. Thank you so much for the opportunity. I just wanted to speak on behalf of someone who enjoys nights of lights.
I'm one of those people that live just a few miles south of town,
but my wife and I all during nights of lights, jump in the truck and come down here and spend time in traffic,
experiencing this wonderful event that called nights of lights.
also, we make it a point to do a staycation here so that we have
the opportunity to walk the streets during nights of lights and enjoy it.
we probably picked one of the busiest weekends of the year this year to do this.
what we found is a vibrant city jam
packed with people who are enjoying and having a great time and spending money in the city.
as a local business owner, I also depend on the push that we get through nights of lights even though we're not in the city limits,
we're just outside at the interstate exit, and it's a big part of us and our abilities.
even though I am a county commissioner here in st. Johns county, I'm not speaking for the board of county commissioners right now,
but as a representative from the board to the city of st. Augustine, I'd like to extend my commitment to work together to solve
these issues and to continue this amazing event called nights of lights. Thank you.
>> thank you very much. That's very encouraging to hear because we are definitely going to need the support of the st. Johns county commission.
mr. Cass. Good evening. >> good evening mayor.
commissioners. Thank you very much, irvin cass. I am the chair of the tourist development council.
now, I can't go specifically what we're going to do because we have a few members of the tdc here.
>> you're free to speak. It's a publicly advertised meeting.
>> well, that's good. But anyhow, I want to first compliment both david
and what he's been doing and working on this and also the mayor.
we've had conversations probably for two,
two-and-a-half months, and we've been working on going toward some nice solutions.
at the tdc, we've had two meetings where since january,
and then again, in early march where we discussed nights of lights at length.
it's also on our agenda for our next meeting. We're very committed to working with everyone on finding solutions.
there was great momentum and there was great conversations,
and then two weeks ago, it all stopped. It's gotten confusing of,
we were all working together, and now we're looking at changing the whole dynamics by shortening.
I've done years of events. Seven years I was involved with the draw rider open.
I did the nba all star game. I've been on two olympic committees.
I've been on four super bowl host committees.
I've been involved in a lot of those things, and the issue is not length, as everyone spoke.
it is a mobility issue and a behavior issue.
we need to look at both of those and also think about the brand.
we need to make sure that nights of lights, the product that we're providing is an a,
and that is the experience, the driving into town,
the walking through town, we need the police officers, we need all that,
but we need to grow it through smart ways.
as chair of the tdc, I am committed to working with the city and with the county to find solutions,
and I don't think we shod knock that off, we should just go forward as we had been for the last couple of months. Thank you.
>> thank you very much. Also encouraging to hear. Carly zervis followed by sigal patel.
carly zervis.
do we find her? Is she here? Yes. That's not her.
I'll put that card aside. There she is.
>> hi. Sorry, I was late. I am a local business owner,
[inaudible] local resident for a long time. Everybody's done a really good job. Lynn said a lot of what I was going to say,
so I'll spare you a recap of the same thing again. I do want to make a comment from
a local carriage company owner who was unable to be here. She's a lifelong resident, who just wanted me to mention
that we already have reservations and bookings for next nights of lights.
we have guests who have ridden with us on the same day for eight or 10 years.
we have a lot of repeat visitors, and we try not to disrupt our guests family traditions.
we can always replan, but it's really tight, especially with limited capacity vehicles,
especially with slow moving vehicles to shoehorn that amount of traffic that we would have if we shorten this season.
I do not know how many of our guests we would be able to serve in that amount of time, especially if everybody is here in a foreshortened duration nights of lights.
I am going to read something into the record from the rhi study,
which was 2021, 2022, we're also super familiar with that. The growing pains of the city can no longer be ignored.
police resources are insufficient to maintain zone integrity, much less fulfill event security requirements.
the funding structure for the city, based on residential population may no longer be viable.
there is growing tension between the city and the county due to the perception. The county brings more tourists yet does not support
the city with matching resources for management. This feels very much to me like a management and resources issue.
we do not have a volume problem. We have a management and resources problem. If we sufficiently resource the management aspect,
it is entirely possible that we could have a much smoother, safer, more enjoyable nights of lights,
with the same volume of guests that are sustaining our businesses, that are preserving our jobs,
that are keeping people's family traditions intact, and I think we'd all like to see that happen. Thank you.
>> thank you. Sigal patel, followed by chris clark.
>> hello, everyone. I'm a small business owner right here on cedar street,
87 cedar street, peace and plenty in. I'm a very small business.
I invested in this city on a promise that we have this festival going.
with this festival being shortened, there will be more problems and my business will suffer.
my employees will suffer, but I personally will suffer.
I invested money in the business and I need to make my investment work.
otherwise, I don't eat. Thank you. >> thank you. Chris clark,
followed by thomas harding.
>> chris clark, 142 king street. Good evening, commissioners.
I'm here to speak in opposition to the proposed resolution to shorten the nights of lights.
to start off, I want to say, I live in st. Augustine. My family is here in st. Augustine,
and I work in st. Augustine. I'm not speaking as an outsider. I'm speaking as someone whose daily life, livelihood,
and community are directly tied to the city and to the knights of lights.
the resolution may be well-intended, but the impact it will have on our workers,
our community, and our businesses is very real and could be very harmful.
for the workers, the seasonal employees depend on the nights of lights to make out to make ends meet.
restaurant staff, hotel workers, tour guides, shop clerks rely on this busy season for income that
helps carry them through the slower months or god forbid another hurricane.
cutting at least three full weekends means fewer shifts,
fewer tips, and fewer opportunities for the people who support our local economy.
the community itself, nights of lights generates almost a quarter of our annual bed tax,
which helps fund arts, culture, parks, and our beach renourishments.
the very things that make st. Augustine such a great place to live. A shorter season means less money for these community assets,
which benefits residents and visitors alike. Let's talk about the changes we can and should make.
if congestion is the concern, shortening the event is not the answer.
instead, we should be working on expanding the shuttle services from offsite parking areas,
improving signage and visitor communication before and during peak weekends,
enhancing traffic and pedestrian management with better coordination and staffing.
these are meaningful and effective strategies that address resident concerns without cutting into
a successful revenue-generating event that benefits the entire city and county.
again, I live here. I work here. My family calls the city home.
I urge you to reject this resolution and instead invest in long-term solutions that support our workers,
our community, and the systems that keep st. Augustine thriving. Thank you.
>> thank you very much. Thomas harding, followed by kimberly kith.
>> hello. Thomas harding, 158 cornell road.
so just a little bit outside from the historic district, but I pretty much consider this place my second home.
as part of my second home, I love the nights of lights. It's pretty crazy christmas decorations,
and I love the festivities. But also as a worker down here, I genuinely do appreciate the extra income.
it helps when hard times come, especially with everyone has put together a very,
I believe they put in way better words, and I think I could have.
but some of the issues, namely traffic and the problem of bathrooms, I believe,
are not necessarily nights of lights issues, but have always pretty much been issues.
mainly the bathrooms. I've even seen personally working on the corner of charlotte and kona street.
some of the bathrooms in the parking lots have been closed during nights of lights, which is definitely a major issue when they're already limited.
also the traffic, I think has also always been an issue, but I've also seen since the rise of all a bunch of new hotels being built.
the traffic has been getting a bit worse, I believe. When it comes to the community and after
the fall of nights of lights when the lights turn off, I've seen a lot more like rental homes,
especially down towards lincolnville, that tend to be empty when people aren't visiting st. Augustine.
everyone's pretty much put I think, a majority of the community's thoughts.
that's just what I wanted to share. Thank you for allowing us to open the discussion.
>> thank you. Kimberly kiff, followed by cindy jarigan.
>> good evening, commissioners, and thank you for hearing us out on this issue.
I am going to forego in the interest of keeping everybody awake, my neatly typewritten speech.
I'm just going to talk about two very quick points because I think everyone here is very eloquently stated what I was going to state.
as a business operator, we live and thrive on research and analysis.
we've done the analysis. We looked at the numbers. We pulled everything apart this year,
and it is my personal belief that shortening the event this year absolutely impacted the crowding of the streets during the rest of the event,
and shortening it further would probably have that same impact. I also would like to mention that I did the research.
we have a lot of groups that come in january. We have a lot of families, it's their tradition.
they bring in, we have one group that six full trains of people that come in january,
and they all do a tour together one night. I called these folks and I said, what are you going to do if january is no longer in the picture,
every one of them said, we're still going to come, but we're going to come in december.
that's just going to compound the traffic problems that we are already facing.
the other thing is, I always welcome my team to come to me with problems and issues,
but I always encourage them to bring those problems with a solution. Just want to reiterate that our businesses are more than happy to help.
we will be any part that we're asked to be in the solution for both the residents and the visitors and guests that come to our event.
but we also are looking and interested in maybe incentivizing people and coming in those slower times or on tuesday nights.
we would love to be part of the conversation is what I'm saying, and if you would include us,
we are happy to do whatever you need us to do to help. Thank you. >> thank you very much.
cindy jarigan, followed by lloyd pierce.
>> good evening. Cindy jernigan, counsel on aging,
river house events, 179 marine street.
I want to express the positive impact nights of lights has on council on aging's river house events.
river house operates as a senior center during the week and an events venue on the evenings and
weekends with revenue from events directly supporting senior programming classes and services.
nights of lights drives event bookings, and this surge and business is vital to our mission.
the revenue generated during this time helps fund essential senior programs year-round,
as well as seasonal initiatives that bring joy and services to older adults in our community.
additionally, nights of lights plays a key role in attracting destination weddings to st. Augustine.
river house receives inquiries from couples eager to plan their weddings and accommodations,
including hotel room blocks around this season. Many of our couples travel from out of town,
which benefits numerous other vendors. One vendor we frequently recommend is coastal transportation,
our transportation service, which allows guests to park at their hotel and shuttle to river house, reducing traffic.
while this is a separate contract for our couples, it remains under the same organization as council on aging,
meaning these bookings further support our mission and the vital programs we provide for seniors.
thank you for your consideration. Thank you. >> pardon me. Lloyd pierce,
followed by martha mikler.
>> aaron's council members. How are you doing this evening? >> very good. Thank you, sir.
>> I've listened quite a bit and I can concur that there is a problem.
lord knows I have experienced this problem in many many years here in the past by being an employee and also a business owner here on my own.
I have heard about certain people having issues about getting to work on time,
30 years in the navy, I was held accountable for getting on the boat on time.
what I've done is I've actually contacted the business owners that have these issues and actually have provided free shuttles for these people.
this is my way of giving back to the city as much as I could. What I would like for you all to do today is take back,
sit back, look at what you're doing with this resolution, and I would also like to offer my services to you for you to come out tomorrow,
the next day, or whatever, and ride with me. See what the traffic situation is like today.
it is basically almost as bad, but not as congested. There are companies that will tell you that we can do x amount of cars off the road here,
x amount of cars off the road here with this. Sometimes, if you give a person that is sick,
too much antibiotics, you're not fixing a problem. See what I'm saying.
what I would like for you to do for me today is just to sit back, take a breather,
look at what's happening and come out and rive in may, and let's see what we can talk about together.
I promise you that I think that the issue that we have now is just being able
to look at what's happening and control the actual situation with the traffic.
there's no way in this world that we can't do it. We do it all the time in gainesville, florida, with massive football seasons,
orlando, jacksonville, the whole nine yards. I think we have the mentality and definitely the technology right here in this city to do
it because we are led by some of the famous people here in the world right here in this country. Thank you.
>> thank you very much. Martha migler, followed by nancy peaser.
>> good evening, martha michal 30 spanish street.
first, I want to thank vice mayor blonder for bringing this issue up front.
I attend many city commission meetings and never see it look like this.
thank you. I think we have people out here. You to be commended for taking action.
you face a big. My husband and I have lived downtown since before night of lights began.
we've witnessed the growth of this annual event as residents.
we remember back 30 years ago, and when I call lynn weeks,
one of the fathers of the night of lights, and there were people that were against
the night of lights because they didn't want us to look like disney.
we were told back then it would be just little white lights outlining the eaves and gables and arches of the buildings.
well, look what's happened. Our neighbors initially looked forward to each new season with
excitement as we all added our touch to light up the historic area.
we enjoyed hanging our white lights and preparing for the festive holidays.
but after this recent past season, we've lost that enthusiasm,
and many of my neighbors are here tonight. We're all concerned about safety for ourselves,
as well as our visitors, businesses, employees. We have security concerns and a real worry that if there is an emergency downtown,
how will the police or the fire department, or rescue vehicles get through to help us?
we all agree the city needs to lead us toward positive solutions,
and many have given you very valuable input over the past few months,
and you've heard lots of suggestions tonight. We're looking forward for your leadership to solve our concerns
and reassure us that you will provide us with a safe environment.
if you decide not to improve the resolution tonight,
please take some action sooner than later.
you've heard from the business community offering their help. Please take their help.
but please include residents in that so that we can also give our input.
we need to work together to make the night of lights a safe environment for all residents,
for all businesses, employees, and all of our visitors.
so we thank you for bringing this to our attention, and we look forward to working together with you. Thank you.
>> thank you very much. Nancy palacer, followed by our last speaker, bj alti.
>> I do hate coming after her. After all of these years.
really, but I'm not going to iterate anymore about that.
I wanted to speak because I'm not sure where these people are driving.
but I can tell you it was more than six nights. It was more than two nights of a weekend even.
but in large part, traffic is a problem everywhere.
part of that problem is we have more people in the county because the county commissioners never turn anything down.
you have gridlock on us one when it's not night of lights on 312.
by the time you get downtown to turn off, those avenues,
those streets are already filling because they need to get off of us 1.
my two-hour excursion was really scary because not only was it gridlocked,
and all of the parking, even when it wasn't a parking space,
if it was a space, somebody was in it. Driving at night, streets are not well lit,
and people were everywhere. They were like ants. They were crossing through the parked cars,
and it was hard to see. I was worried about hitting someone or being hit.
but we have to solve the problem. Unfortunately, 30 years ago,
they made no provisions for what disney does, which is offsite parking.
but in order to have offsite parking, you've got to be able to get those people downtown,
and they're not going to be in the gridlock either, or they're not going to park there.
when the city commission does some proposals about treating traffic to try and move it,
the businesses shouldn't then throw up their hands and say, no, we need that parking space in front of our business.
if the businesses perhaps with their associations,
would write the legislature and say, let loose some of the money from the bed tax.
if you can provide millions of dollars to renourish the beach sand that you know is going to be washed away,
and you're going to do the same thing next year. They ought to be able to loosen some of the money to treat make the activity
of the tourists more enjoyable because that is the basis of our economy.
but it has to be something that everybody buys into.
a third lane to get all this traffic shuttles,
perhaps trailer trains in a faster capacity is going to mean taking parking spaces off the street.
you can't have it both ways. You can't have millions of people coming in and still have it be the same.
thank you so much for all you do. It's a hard place to sit. Yes, ma'am.
>> thank you very much. Our last speaker is bj city.
>> resolution 2025 08, nights of lights date should eliminate dates in november 2025.
I know that's going to go over real great. Residents can enjoy quality of life.
december 1, 2025 to january 4, 2026 is enough disruption in the city of st. Augustine limits.
I heard on the radio, vice chair blonder was interviewed on
a jacksonville radio station and mentioned an e-mail she received from a resident about cutting the dates.
my question is, who decided on the dates and resolution 2025 08?
it seems like tonight, most of the business people who have come here, which is great.
there's four people, as I was counting residents who spoke.
it's realizing, I'm going to keep on saying this,
we have a 50 pound bag of potatoes.
that's what we are as a city. Now we're asking 1,000 potatoes to fit in it.
it can be solved. But the only one I heard was one of
the gentleman said that you can have free rides on his shuttle or whatever he had,
that was interesting unless I misunderstood him.
it boils down to this, and we all know this. The almighty dollar versus quality of life.
it's really destroying the city of st. Augustine. It's a hard thing to come up with the answers.
but we can find the answers if we really want to.
somebody is going to have to give up something or all of us going to have to give up something.
but since we've got so many business people here tonight and a couple of politicians from the county,
and of course, you all, I would like to ask these business people,
and the other two groups I've mentioned, to get with the person at 32 evenita menendez and persuade them to
put the plaque about the civil rights incident on the outside of the wall.
these people have come out tonight, which I applaud them. I congratulate them for coming,
and it's obvious you can't pass this tonight. I'm sorry, but that's the way it is.
I mean, I can count and I can listen. But it's not just the business people we need to speak within the four.
the four residents has to be involved. I'd like to be involved and be quickly to get done.
but it's given up each person is going to have to give up something,
and it can be done and we're talking about this all the time, and it's the mobility thing.
we've been talking about mobility since whoever knows how long. That's what's going to have to be done. Thank you.
>> thank you. This is the last call for cards.
I've had two turned in. It looks like you've got another one. People have decided to jump in here late.
next speaker, shane sheltra, followed by ben brando. Thank you very much.
>> hello. Good evening, madam mayor and commissioners.
sorry to extend this a little longer. I appreciate it. I'll be quick. My name is shane sheltra,
117 st. George street, st. Augie, florida 32084.
I appreciate all of you and know the decisions you have to make are not easy.
I own multiple businesses downtown. We have 220 employees with many that live in our beloved city.
there has already been so much valuable input from all the speakers before me.
as a business owner, I want to provide the most I possibly can for the staff that shows up every day,
works hard, cares about our business and community. We provide high wages,
full benefits, amazing appreciation outings. We want to provide as much as we possibly can
and still be able to run a successful business. I'm only saying this because I'm not here for myself or my family.
I'm really here for my 220 employees. Please consider that passing this ordinance will be a huge detriment to their livelihood.
I feel like you all have heard enough to make the best educated decision. Thank you very much.
>> thank you. Ben brando, followed by philip castillo.
>> thank you, everybody. This is a great topic to get everybody out here.
I feel like my concerns over it being cut short, won't come to fruition. That's great.
I want to offer some solutions. My name is benjamin brando. I own geo trip and adventure company at junang's fish camp in crescent beach.
I'm here tonight to submit alternative solutions for the 2025 nights of light season that should satisfy both sides of the argument.
seasonal themes like nights of light are vital tourism assets that attract visitors
and generate significant revenue for our community. I support the position that overcrowding, congestion,
and the occasional inconveniences our city's popularity brings to residents are legitimate concerns,
but shortening the event is not the answer, clearly. It exacerbates the very issues that we hope to solve.
I have many solutions that are in line with city, county and state initiatives with
comprehensive funding opportunities to rebrand florida from beaches and tourist attractions
to a message that uplifts nature based experiences to bring the rest of florida's history into the narrative.
instead, I propose that we spread out the demand to equalize traffic by expanding the celebrations impact,
by encouraging visitors to explore the entire region by promoting off the beaten path attractions and neighboring areas.
I believe that if we divert traffic away from st. Augustine and create a broader,
more vibrant regional celebration, this strategy not only alleviates local congestion,
but also enhances the overall visitor experience, making st. Augustine the perfect place to get heads into beds,
since it is ground zero for those flying in to follow the lights.
st. Augustine is not just a colonial history anymore. Every time period offers a wealth of adventure and discovery.
both sides want to reduce annoyances and safety concerns gridlock brings from time to time while
preserving the essential economic benefits my industry and every local business and hospitality worker relies on each january.
I e-mailed every member of the board a copy of my musings, and I hope a motion is made to appoint a committee to explore the possibility of
expanding nights of lights and adding more seasonal celebrations to the city's calendar.
consider the 250 anniversary of the usa is next year. It also marks the completion of the river to sea trail through st. Augustine,
and great themes to positively impact the success of the most significant sectors employing residents here in
st. John's county for another time. We should commence discussions about adding a spring festival season as well.
just to see for thought, bartram 3 theme frolic to align with our neighbors in plaka,
who got the national park services to create the brand new national park corridor across five southern states.
that starts has been established where america's first native born master naturalist,
william bartram, traveled through and settled his homestead in st. John's county,
circus 1773. Who was here? What was happening in 1776?
bartram was here and his writings are filled with lor. That is the next narrative to continue
drawing crowds away from downtown while helping the tourism sector thrive.
I hope it lasts all year because I do tours of the living lights in guana lake.
you can't stop my living lights there. They're 500 million-years-old and they're going to continue being there,
so everybody keep keep it in mind. >> thank you very much.
philip castillo, please. Our last speaker.
>> good evening. My name is philip castillo.
I started my first business downtown 41 years ago on st. George street.
chris, who started the nico lights, 31 years ago, one of my tennis buddies.
he goes to me says, phil, will you help me string lights and the lightning
bushes out here?" I said, "oh, heck yeah." I love the nico lights and I don't think that we should shorten them whatsoever.
as a business owner, I have two art galleries and a wine bar on avilis.
is my last business in town that I'm going to do. I think you've been there.
we really need to continue the extension and the time frame of the nico lights.
I don't want to see it shorten whatsoever because I don't want to suffer the loss of revenue,
and I know that this is going to impact all of us here. I don't know how all of us can make all that revenue up.
it's very important that we continue this tradition. Please, don't shorten it. Thank you very much.
>> thank you very much. That is the end of public comment.
thank you, everybody for coming. We really appreciate the input.
I think everyone definitely has the well being of the city at heart.
I think we'd like to begin discussion here,
and what I'd like to do is since this was a proposal by vice mayor.
we'll give her the first stab at comments and responses.
>> bear with me. I won't take more than three minutes, I promise.
first, I commend all the people who have come out tonight, have e-mailed or called us to participate in their government.
I'm proud of our community, whether we agree or disagree. We do so with civility.
I knew when I made this proposal that this idea was provocative. It's so important for people to express themselves and
participate in this difficult decision and discussion. Please reflect in the next few minutes on all the great observations,
suggestions and ideas we've received over the past weeks, and especially tonight and by e-mail in the past few days.
the fact is that in this fast changing environment we find ourselves in,
we just don't know what to expect in terms of visitors in terms of lots of things due to any number of pressures,
whether they be hurricanes, and economic recession, overly successful advertising, etc.
it's a big black box in making this decision. We don't know in particular how deeply the dot project to replace
the king street bridge will further contribute to traffic gridlock.
we do know that visitors as a result of their sheer numbers had an unacceptable experience this past season.
many won't come back with continuing traffic gridlock and
inadequate services such as police crossing guards and restrooms.
I know to all of us in this room and beyond safety is paramount,
emergency professionals are not able to access those who need them with
the type of congestion that we are facing in particular during nights of lights.
quality of life for our residents has deteriorated to the point that good people are leaving our community permanently.
we need to recover just a little bit of balance, just temporarily,
one year, while we review, assess, prioritize, and implement solutions.
january signals the end of the holidays as well as the significant decrease in visitors.
peak times of nights of lights have passed, which is why I propose shortening it in january.
january alone. I remind everyone of the rationale for why I introduced this resolution.
number one is quality of life for our residents. Number two, the process for implementing solutions to
these problems will take more time than we have between now and late november.
that's not close to even a year. Number three, the replacement of the king street bridge.
number four, a reminder that this is a temporary measure, at least as I intended it.
given all the uncertainties in the drop in visitation in january, it makes sense to me that we give our residents some time to exhale.
whichever way this vote goes, though, it is my sincere hope that all of the offers,
the wonderful offers for assistance that we got from the business community,
are sincere and that we can work together, pool our resources, and make significant improvements
to our future nights of lights. Thank you.
>> very well put. Thank you. I appreciate it.
although I did not have the benefit of participating in that conversation,
I certainly have received a lot of input about it.
I'd like to thank you for bringing the proposal because you have accomplished one very important thing and you've brought this community together.
I think the business community has come out the positives are that the business community has come out and offered their assistance.
they have a full recognition of how important this issue is and that there were problems.
finally, there is a recognition now that there were problems this year.
for whatever reason, we all have our ideas about whatever those reasons were,
that business community is offering to cooperate. Everything from the board of county commissioners here,
which is well represented to the chairman of the tdc,
to the chamber of commerce, to the st. Augustine business coalition.
it's quite encouraging to see that they're here recognizing
the issue and realizing we're going to have to roll our sleeves up and resolve this issue.
this is whether this shortening of the nights of lights would in any fashion,
whether it's a week or whether it's two weeks or whether it's three weeks or an entire month, my question is,
does it actually accomplish the goal of addressing the issues that we had in this last nights of lights.
that's for me is the key question. Then also, how does the bridge closure on king street impact the businesses?
would this exacerbate their pain, which I believe would.
I really do. I believe shortening nights of lights would exacerbate their pain.
they're going to suffer enough as it is. But with that said,
I just would like to say, I care very much about the residents. I am a resident.
I am not a business owner here, although I have business experience.
I am not in here with this business community so much,
although I definitely feel their pain. I tend to fall more on the side of the residents,
and I will tell you that the residents are suffering. They are suffering, and they have been wonderful about,
and you heard them speak tonight, how much they love nights of lights, how much they enjoy it,
how much they look forward to and treasure it. It's a part of all of our lives. It's a pride and joy.
it is a wonderful thing that we get to celebrate this community in this beautiful way.
it does get tired in january. When christmas is over,
it's like a whole another thing. All those lights that are not just highlighting
the architecture become garish and unattractive and too much.
there's that fatigue. I think we get a lot of fatigue in january
about it and maybe that's why we're picking on january.
we get a little tired. My question is, again, I'll come back to this.
does this shortening of nights of lights, how does it help us solve our long-term solution?
how does it help relieve the fatigue of our residents that we're asking to go along with.
there's lots of residents that don't benefit from nights of lights, just in that this is a point of pride.
I would like to hear from you and all your different thoughts and maybe we can work through something.
I have talked to several business owners and they've said,
"if you're going to shorten it after martin luther king weekend,
which is a long weekend, which is an important weekend, that would be shortening it only one week, basically."
then I've heard this january 4 date,
and I'm not sure what that accomplishes either. But I would like to hear your thoughts on if you're interested in shortening
it and where you would think that would fall reasonably.
>> can I do that last? >> I see you to start. >> I'm meager to start. Can I do that last?
[noise] I would like to remind everybody, we don't make any money in the city of st. Augustine on night of flights, we lose money.
sales tax are generated galore, thanks to all these businesses making all this extra money,
and the income tax people in federal government gain from all that extra income.
city of st. Augustine doesn't make a nickel. We don't promote it.
we don't spend advertising dollars to promote it, that's the job of the tdc thanks to the hotel tax.
I just want to remind everybody that. We did hear concerns last year about the length of time from residents,
and there is a lot of fatigue, and we heard them and we did shorten it.
I just want to remind everybody that we did that. I see several common issues between all of the groups.
we have residents, we have businesses, and we have the city management.
residents are primarily, and what I've heard this year and other years is safety.
the streets are blocked, you can't get there, and then traffic.
just the annoyance of having to spend two hours just to get the publics.
the businesses are concerned about traffic and safety.
the city is concerned about safety, and they're concerned about the fact that
their staff is so busy handling night of lights issues, they can't handle the problems that are happening at target or any other place.
those are issues that are common to all of us.
I'm also glad to hear all these businesses are making some money
that maybe they can help contribute to some of our problems. That would be a nice thing somehow.
we'll leave a collection plate at the back.
when cindy spoke about the coa, that hit some hard strings right there that
this actually is helping the community with the funds through the coa. I appreciate the cindy coming out.
I am not in favor of shortening it again this year.
I think that we've done that and we have a big problem to solve first,
and that's to attempt to try to solve the mobility problem. That includes things like blocking some streets,
so they're not parking on rody and cincinnati and those streets.
trying to get rid of the blow up dolls in
the hotel landscape and trying to get rid of the garish lights,
and also most importantly trying to get rid of those vendors that are
adding the tackiness to the night of lights.
I think lynn weeks and the crew back then envisioned
something classy and beautiful in highlighting the architecture.
we need to get back to that and we can do that thug ordinance in the future.
sing out loud in the pga and when they had the super bowl in jacksonville.
I was active with that too. It worked, and it takes some time to develop a program and to have space.
I would like to propose an alternative dates though.
I went to speak to the business association and there was a suggestion that we move,
this is one person's suggestion it wasn't the group, move all the dates to november and drop january.
because the holiday season starts early. The more I thought about that after we've had this brought up by commissioner blonder,
the more I realized that if we could start at least a week earlier in november,
the holiday traffic may be dispersed a little bit from around thanksgiving and other dates,
and then take a week off of january.
what I would like for us to consider is november 15th to the january 19t.
that takes a week before thanksgiving and it ends the monday night of martin luther king.
the same number of weeks and the same number of weekends we had last year,
but it may move some of that heavy traffic in november away from that congestion time.
I have no scientific data to support that, [laughter] but common sense seems to be the thing people are
throwing around now even though they don't have common sense. I rest my case.
>> very good. Thank you very much. Commissioner garris.
>> thank you. Let me sip on some water quick.
well, first of all, the nights of lights always started the week before thanksgiving
it never started the week of thanksgiving because it always was like around my husband's birthday,
which is the 18th, so I know that to be true. There's been a lot of people that have come out
tonight and there's been a lot of phone calls. I'm sure all of you have received them about the concern of the lights being turned off.
there's a lot of business, and there was a couple of people here that spoke on that that are barely staying open.
we have hurricane season just prior to nights of lights,
so this is an opportunity for those business to re-emerge and end in the black because they have to close.
the businesses might get damaged, and so it's like a retrieve.
what the problem is, is really not the length of the nights and lights, that's the problem, the problem is the mobility.
I spoke to the sheriff today at the rotary.
he said that he has never been asked to be a part of the nights and lights,
and people constantly ask him why the sheriff's office is not involved in directing traffic.
he said because he is county, he doesn't want to step on anybody's toes.
but he did say this that from christmas time when school gets out,
he has 20 officers that he has to reassign to go somewhere.
he'd be willing to send those officers to help us with night of lights, if he's asked.
there's resources out there that we haven't tapped on.
there is people that have come up. I had the pleasure of talking to the tdc chair irvin cass,
that he gave some great suggestions. Unfortunately, I left them on my table. Otherwise, I will reiterate them to you right now.
the isabel of the chamber. A lot of people are offering to give us dollars to help us address this issue.
again, it's mobility that is the concern, not the length of the nights of lights.
if we decided to shorten it somewhat because of the the bridge situation.
but just like anything, those people are coming in from 16 most of the time,
they turn it over there by the parking garage because they know that it exists, and they don't already put it in phones,
so they're not even going to deal with the bridge issue, and then they're going to try to go right back out the way they are.
if we have police offices versus those red lights, we can move that traffic.
it has already been proven. Look how many people come here for the events in september.
there was over 26,000 people down there each night for those events,
and there was no traffic congestion downtown at all. It was like it didn't even happen.
it can be done. I think that what we need to do is we need to have a round table discussion,
our city manager with some of these individuals to come up with a solution so that we can effectively prove that we are capable of moving traffic.
he also needs to have a fire chief in there so that he can find they have safe streets
that they don't put any traffic on so that the fire trucks can get through and ambulance can get through,
they have a safe passage. This can be done, it can be managed if we all put our heads together.
there was too many intelligent people that spoke tonight. To prove that this can be managed,
and we have opened up the door for them to have come here tonight and express their concerns.
if we decided to shorten the nights of lights, it does need to go past martin luther king because they make it money in december.
january is a new year. They need to start in the black so that they have
hope that their business is going to make it in the upcoming year.
at the earliest, we have to let them go through martin luther king,
and then we can take the lights down on that tuesday afterwards. We cannot disrupt people's income,
put people's jobs in jeopardy, close places. I think the residents will be happy because we heard them is shortened,
and I think that the business owners will know that they have the three day weekend before their businesses can be affected from the nights of lights.
more people came in here for businesses, then that residents that came in here.
there was a handful of people that came in here, speaking for residents,
but a lot of these businesses came in here, found parking, came in here to express their concerns. Thank you.
>> wow, that's something to follow.
well, I don't want to repeat what everybody said here tonight. It's pretty much what I said at the last hearing and the issue is
a mobility problem really in the city with this and everywhere.
in the hope of trying to build a little consensus around this,
I've written down some things that I personally would like to see in mobility plan and then I'll get to setting the time.
I listened to businesses. I've talked to the neighborhood business group,
went to the vcb, got plenty of phone calls from business people.
I will concur that there are a lot of residents that patients have been lost.
I think in some cases, this is an exercise of winning our residents trust back.
I think they're wondering whether we can manage this. At the same time, I want to keep the economic vitality of the event.
I'm trying to get a win-win. We have to show the residents we're doing something
and we also at the same time have to listen to our businesses. As a mobility goals,
written down a couple of them here. Safe and convenient through routes for the residents.
I think that's the number one issue for residents if they can get in their cars and they can drive around and they can get back and forth.
that is a goal right now, but I don't actually have a plan in front of me that says what roads on what time.
that would be a goal that I would want to see regardless of what we do here on a vote.
I know we have a facilitator to help us, I'm just going to write these things down for now.
I want guaranteed parking access to residents houses and streets. We're hearing a lot of people who are not
being able to get into their driveway or people are parking on lawns or that is going to take some enforcement.
that is going to take some money, and I'll get to that at the end of the thing here.
some plan to ensure less drive through traffic.
traffic it just drive through and looks at the lights. A lot of residents and businesses come up with ideas,
we park the people outside of town, we bring them in. I think this is from what I've heard from people.
this was a big problem. People get in the car, they drive around, they want to look at the nights lights,
it's just congesting the roads. On top of that, I want to disincentivize.
I want to disincentive plan for parking in the core and incentivizing multimodal ways to get out of town.
I know I'm the bike freak. No everybody's going to come down on a bike, but if you are a resident and you want to get down on a bike,
you should be able to do that. You should have a shuttle. You should have some way to be able to get around.
that relives the pressure on the businesses because the residents will necessarily have to be in a car to go down there.
is one car off the road. I want to see assistance and permission
from property owners and from f dot and the county, in some cases, for multiple satellite parking sites and shuttle lanes,
I'd like to see that guarantee, I'd like to see contracts. I would like to see those coming from every direction.
the south, the west, the north, and the east. It's a big task, but that's what we got to do.
a traffic analysis factoring in the future construction on king street, nebrga lions.
this is a big issue. I know we're talking about that. We're going to have the king street bridge being redone.
it's going to re-route. It's going to be an extra stop light on us1, which is already congested.
I want to see some way that we're going to be able to identify that.
as I said in the first meeting when we talked about this, I think the goals that we need to follow,
the framework we need to follow are in our mobility plan.
I would like to see added language or addendum to the mobility plan specifically for large scale events.
public safety, I'd like to see a public safety response time analysis that's
coordinated with that mobility plan so we can be sure that there's open roads to get cars back and forth.
I like to develop measurable goals and metrics. When we do this, we go back after a year and we say, hey, we did this.
it didn't take somebody two hours to get somewhere. We actually achieve what we want.
I would like to see an improved partnership and shared goals with
the tdc and the county specifically around the advertising for the event.
like I said at the last meeting, goals that message is basically a pedestrian event.
this is something I got is the budgeting. All these things I'm saying,
everything what paul is going to require some money.
I would like to see us start budgeting the nights of lights as
an item for discussion separately for two reasons.
number 1, we're spending the taxpayer's money, I'd like to know that we're doing it effectively.
number 2, it'll give the residents to some business owners the confidence that we're working on it.
number 3, I get a very good suggestion from a local business owner who said,
you can take that budget, and then you can go out and use it to cost share with some of
our other shareholders here, that would be tdc the county and some of the businesses that have worked to us.
the difficulty for me is the time frame.
I think miss commissioner blonder was right that we this is not going to happen in eight months.
I know we're moving along and I know we're going really good.
but as far as the timing, I just sat here tonight and I was realizing that the holding
couple of weeks back first of all, I like the idea of maybe starting a week early and then going after martin luther king.
I think that's probably a good compromise. There's a rationale there. But I do like holding a couple of weeks back.
it's just like a poker game. By suggesting three weeks, we're going to be cut off.
look at what we got a good response. We got two county officials here.
I'm not ready to go back to the full amount of time that we had, but shifting it.
I would have thought maybe two weeks off would have maybe told the residents that we're trying to work on this a little bit.
but shifting it a week forward, I understand now, I didn't. I had my calendar here on my phone to go and pat martin luther king.
I never really thought of that. That wasn't a date I thought of, I think that's really important.
I would be inclined to support a compromise like that.
>> I like all of what I've heard, especially,
I like the idea of working with the sheriff because I think we're going to need to address our safety concerns and some of that is visible badges.
that's like I told the city manager, when people have become accustomed to seeing
law enforcement everywhere where large groups of people have gathered.
I think that's really important. I think that the sheriff could help us play that role.
if you will thank him for us for that offer, we appreciate that I certainly do.
I like the idea. I had heard the idea,
suggested about shifting the times, and I actually like that idea.
I think that might address some of that fatigue that I talked about in january that we're tired of christmas.
maybe we can work on our business owners that are overdcorating,
or not following the original intent. That aren't so pretty, frankly, after january,
they don't look as pretty to us because it's still christmas, and that's not what we're doing.
with all of this in mind, I like the shift.
I like the shifting idea of,
shortening january to the 19th,
keeping that martin luther king weekend. That gives us a little relief to the residents.
I'm really thinking along the lines of the residents here.
I think november 15th, everybody is in the spirit. It's exciting, excitement is building and the holidays.
from what I've heard from a lot of the businesses, november and december is when they really make up their losses for the year.
that's where they really make their their final push at the end,
not so much january but november and december, so that would, I think help them shift that profit
into those two months so that they would depend less on january.
it seems like a good thing.
I like the discussions about providing the safety.
we have got to for our residents. That is the main number one thing is for the residents,
we have to work very hard on keeping them safe and making
them safe as well as giving them better access so that they're not grid locked in their homes.
there can't be a worse feeling in the world than being locked in your home.
those are all the things that you addressed and that the city manager has been working on.
I think it's a good plan, but I'm open to further discussion.
>> I just wanted to say one thing. In response to some of the questions you asked about,
why cut it short in november? >> yes. >> first of all, if we move it and I see the rationale behind it,
I can't support that. What I have to go back to the questions you were asking,
why cut it shorter in november, our residents. This is it.
all we throwing a bone essentially. I know it doesn't do anything about the congestion.
I know that. But here's a sentence from one of our constituents.
there are certainly more reforms necessary to this event, but the reduction in length alone would help residents
feel like they can take back just a little bit of their town. That's what I want. I won't support any changes for that reason alone,
although I understand them, I appreciate them. I think they're well reasoned.
I have to advocate for our residents and can get something back.
>> that's very understandable and it's a good position to be in because really that advocacy has brought us to this position.
I feel like some very positive things can come out of this discussion along with the business community.
I'm very encouraged by what I've heard tonight.
yes. I would love to hear where we
stand on this because I think we've got a couple of people that are okay with the shift.
sounds to me like three people are good with the shift idea. >> what day is martin luther king day?
>> monday. >> on the 19th. >> january 19.
>> okay. >> doesn't change the length at all. >> I thought it was the 11th.
>> but it's actually shortened to two weeks because we shortened it a week last year.
it's actually shortened to two weeks because it used to run all the way to february.
we shortened it two weeks in january. >> [overlapping] always be the same.
the way we shortened it was to the last last.
>> yes. >> I'm sorry. If it helps the conversation. In 2024, the city commission set what would be the traditional dates by resolution.
that just means if you don't do anything in a year to year change,
these are the traditional dates, and the traditional dates would be the saturday before
thanksgiving through the last sunday of january of the following year.
saturday before thanksgiving through the last sunday of january are
what are deemed the traditional dates per resolution 2024-12.
if you do nothing, that will be the date. >> that's change is being interpreted as we shortened it by,
but what you're saying is the impact of that policy.
shortened it, and that's what we heard from some of the speakers as well.
we didn't necessarily say, oh, we're shortening it, we were saying we want to make it consistent along these phrases.
saturday before thanksgiving last sunday of january.
the impact was interesting. I thought it was an interesting observation that it ended up being ten days shorter.
but that was salient point.
I thought. Thank you for the clarification.
like I said, what I was saying was, sounds like we've got three commissioners that are interested in a shift.
I would be interested in a shift with certain conditions under certain conditions.
that would be that safety and access for residents become a priority in anything that we do with a city manager and
any consultant that's hired and that we would begin to work with the sheriff's department as well.
find a way to work with them and find out what we can do, how we could share resources because we have the county commission here as well.
the other thing that I think we can probably expect is request
to the tdc for additional funding to fund some of these extra things that are going to cost,
but that's not part of what my provisions would be,
but where I would go with this. If you guys are not opposed to that,
I'll go ahead and make a motion. >> let's get the dates down again.
>> the date is, what the dates are proposed are november the shift.
I'm calling it the shift. November 15 through january 19.
it would start earlier mid november.
we would have to change the ordinance, I assume.
november 15 through january 19th. >> no, we wouldn't have to change it. >> we don't have to change the ordinance.
>> no, the ordinance is a completely different creature. If those are the dates you want,
we can substitute in this resolution. >> the resolution will overlay the ordinance that we have?
>> correct. You've got right now before you a resolution that says november 22 through january 4,
you can amend that if that's what your motion intends to do to
instead be commencing november 15 and running through january 19 inclusive.
>> that's right. >> I think this will help with the residents burnout
because december 25 is the peak of burnout.
we are shortening it by a week after that period of time.
I wish martin luther king that three week weekend didn't fall that late in january.
that'd be really nice if it was the second week but, it is a three day weekend,
and I think I might even be willing to move it back in my mind,
because that weekend may be a busy weekend anyway because it's a three day weekend.
that may be something to bring up. >> what to not go to the martin luther king, to go to the 11th?
>> it's already a busy weekend. >> it is and that's a good point.
>> I want to give the residents a little bit more than this. >> I can go with that because martin luther king weekend,
it's a three day weekend. It's a weekend on its own. It's going to be a successful,
busy weekend on its own, whether you have nights of lights impacting it or not.
I'm very flexible on even shortening that end of it.
>> well, if you let it go to martin luther king's weekend,
the staff is off that monday. They could come in that tuesday and take the lights down.
>> yes. >> well, they would come in on monday the 12th and take it off.
if we did it the 11th. That's the conversation. >> I think we we're talking about not january the 19th,
I think we're talking what would be the sunday the 11th.
>> that's what I initially thought. This way we can go to the residents and we can say,
look, we took two total weeks off, right? >> yeah. >> it's really only a week from what I was proposing.
>> from what what you were proposing.
>> but I think it feels different before in november.
it feel as tired and like I said, the fatigue, it's not as awful.
>> I like to shift because of the rationale because you're not going to have people come in.
the person that really was of interest to me was ed swift with the historic doors,
talking about the days are compressed. Until we have a plan,
on the table, I know we're all working on it. I know david's doing a fantastic job,
but some of these, government don't move that quick sometimes. Maybe the next year after that,
we can re discuss it, but I feel like this is fair to the residents and fair to the business.
>> I have a question. Is this resolution just good for one year?
this is a trial balloon. This is an experiment.
>> just a week for the residents after this year.
I I just can't support that. One week is not good for me.
>> I think one thing that really helped me in this week was one of
the businesses provided us with the actual data of how much money they had,
they were in the red were in december. I have to take their word and trust that,
but it'd be really nice to get cooperation with some of the businesses not to know the actual amount of money they make and all that.
but for them to keep data for us to use to be able to say,
did it really affect you turning off martin luther king? If we had real data,
and it could be percentages, it could be whatever, but figure a way for the businesses to be able to
communicate with us to say, I think it's fair. We can get real traffic data.
>> well, that's what I'm saying. If we get traffic data, if we get data like in january,
it drop by this [inaudible] I'm hearing from people that it was a lot better.
I know driving through town, it was better was tougher on the weekends, but it was also cold. There weren't a lot of people out.
I think we're going to be giving metrics, we want to hear metrics from the city because we're
responsible for this.if we're going to make these decisions, it would be good to have some sense of data.
the missing element is the businesses. If they could consolidate and help us on that front.
I know I had a business, you don't want to tell everybody exactly you're making. Believe me.
I know that, but some parameter, some information for me would make me feel a little bit better.
>> can I just say one thing. The residents that do not live in the city,
they come down to see the nights of lights when the business goes and they come in january.
because they know all of the tourists are gone, the holidays are gone,
and they come down and enjoy the lights before they get turned off.
if you have them on january 4th, they're going to miss on that opportunity.
if you give them that holiday weekend because a lot of people are off,
they get a chance to come down and see the lights that sunday of that monday.
some of them are coming to town just for the king celebration, and they'll be able to get that enjoyment
one final time before the lights get turned off. >> may I say something?
>> understand. >> I am a I'm empathetic to this question about data.
I'm a scientist. There are so many variables that go into a successful business here,
whether it be traffic, whether it be politics,
things that are intangible. Those are called confounding variables that you cannot account for.
those are pretty meaningless to me, those numbers because every time we're shifting the baseline.
every time we're shifting the baseline, on the weather, on people's experiences from previous years, all things.
that to me is not a deciding point that's going to help
me make a decision about what the right thing to do is for our residents in particular.
>> well, I think we all made our case.
I think where we are now is november 15th to january 11th, am I correct?
yes. No. No. Yes. Like I said,
I think that this will work, but we'll only be okay if we don't
diligently move forward on the mobility and the safety issues.
>> well, it's urgent. That's what commissioners bond brought to this.
there's a sense of urgency. I do not want to leave this meeting with less urgency just because we said the dates different.
>> there's a lot of value in what you've brought here tonight. I can see a lot of value in what you've brought tonight.
with that, I would make a motion that we change the timing and the ordinance to from november 15.
>> resolution you mean? >> I'm sorry, the resolution from november 15th through to january 11th.
with the understanding that we will continue to make
priority and access priority of safety and access for the residents.
first and foremost. >> one comment before I second and this is just for this one year.
>> I do believe that what's [overlapping]. >> correct. Clear on that.
thank you for clear clarifying that because the public wants to know understand as well.
this is a one year provision. That is my motion.
>> yes, second >> okay. Further discussion.
all those in. Well, we'll call the roll. Madam clerk, please call the roll.
>> nancy sikes-kline? >> yes. >> james springfield? >> yes.
>> john d prater? >> yes. >> cynthia garris? >> no..
>> barbara blonder. >> no. >> thank you very much. We'll wait just a minute until the room clears,
I'm sure it will. Take a minute.
>> we're going to go ahead and get back to work here.
we have a few items. Before we go much further, I have asked the city manager if we can delay item 10(a),
which is the vehicles for hire presentation into another future meeting,
and he agreed, and I hope that you commissioners will also agree that that is acceptable.
we will do that at a future meeting. With that said, we have some fun ahead.
with resolution 2025-09, miss perkins.
>> good evening, madam mayor. Madam vice mayor and commissioners, jamie perkins, neighborhood services cra manager.
tonight, we're just asking for your approval of resolution or adoption of resolution 2025-29,
which is a resolution for city staff to move forward with requesting
our second funding from the florida inland navigation district.
this is just additional funding to fund the remaining costs of the kayak launch at eddie vickers park.
I'm available, if you have any questions. >> commissioners? >> I love it.
>> well, then you can do the honor. >> motion moved.
let's adopt this resolution. What is it 2025, you're looking for support for them.
>> yes. >> I don't need to make a motion, do I? >> yes.
>> 092025. >> I move that that we pass resolution 2025-09.
>> go ahead. >> opening discussion, comments. >> when is this going to be on the calendar for construction?
>> if this gets approved tonight, we can start moving forward very soon.
the design is already complete, so we're just needing to get it out on the street.
>> excellent. With that said, all those in favor signify by saying aye. [overlapping]
>> motion carries unanimously. Onto item 2025-10, chief.
we've got the chief tonight. Good evening.
>>> good evening. Carlos aviles fire chief. I'm here tonight to present resolution number 2025-10,
which is a resolution supporting two separate grant programs,
one through a federal port security grant and the other with a for matching funds from
the florida inland navigation district for the acquisition of firefighting and rescue vessel.
>> excellent. Anyone have questions?
>> I don't have a question, but I was surprised to hear about
this boat because I didn't know we actually did coast guard work.
the manager explained to me that we are between two coast guard stations,
and so therefore, they have asked us, if I'm correct, to serve as an intermediary in cases an emergency
near our inlet or near and this is what this boats going to be used for.
>> correct. It's it's services that we're doing now.
it's was just an opportunity that presented itself.
the current boat isn't slated for replacement,
but when the grant opened up, we were encouraged to go ahead and apply for it.
we do have a really great relationship with our other government agencies here in the area.
I pulled some call data just to give you an idea.
it's actually one of the most use resources that the department has.
over the last 12 months, it's had almost 90 calls for service,
26 of those have been in the area of the inlet or outside the inlet.
not unlike the way that we would respond to
an emergency on the land based side where we would send multiple units to it,
sending a single marine asset into dangerous environments is not great.
yes. The coast guard area of responsibility is split actually near the summer haven inlet.
everything north of that area falls under coast guard sector jacksonville, everything south of that area falls under the ponce inlet station.
if there are other government resources in the area that can provide assistance to folks in distress
and ultimately that go or no go decision is at the at the behest of the operators,
then we do try to lend assistance where needed. It's something that we're doing now.
it would just give us the capabilities of more
enhanced and safety we're operating in those austere environments.
but we're trying to do it all through grant funding.
>> is the intent to keep both boats or just to have? >> no. We would get down to just one boat, so yes.
>> thank you. >> excellent. Anyone who wish to make the motion?
>> I move we approve resolution 2025-10.
>> I'll second. >> any further discussion? All those in favor signify by saying aye.
[overlapping]. >> thank you. >> anonymous. Congratulations. Good luck.
item 20205-11.
miss. Beach. Good evening. >> good evening, madam mayor.
madam vice mayor, fellow commissioners, jessica beecher, chief resilience officer and deputy director for utilities and public works.
I'm here to present with you resolution number 2025-11.
it's for your consideration for the construction and maintenance agreement that we have with the department of transportation and the city of st. Augustine.
this is specific for the dot c wall project that they have in design. The project has come before you in past commission meetings.
this is really just codifying who will be doing what? Once the projects actually constructed.
it's a fully funded project through dot. Once that's implemented and they're finished,
they will be retaining ownership and maintaining the structural integrity of the sea wall.
then the city will be as the maintaining agency continue to operate and maintain the property and improvements,
including preserving all aesthetic features of the sea wall, including landscaping mowing and litter removal.
the resolution goes into that detail, and there's some exhibits that show what that is,
and I'm here to answer any questions and maybe take it back to the commission for discussion or consideration.
>> commissioners, comments, questions. City manager, do you have any comments or questions?
>> no, this is a great project. Please approve it.
>> good one. >> it's a good one. Thank you for your work on this.
>> thank you very much. I move we pass resolution 2025-11.
>> second. All those in favor signify by saying aye.
[overlapping] anonymous. Congratulations.
we have decided to push item 10(a) to the another future meeting.
items by city attorney? >> nothing, ma'am. >> items by city clerk.
>> as promised, I am continuing reminding of our open positions on our citizen boards.
we have one term expiration on the historic architectural review board,
three terms expiring on our lincolnville community redevelopment steering committee,
one vacancy on our san augustine firefighters pension and trust fund board of trustees,
one vacancy on our san augustine police officers retirement system board of trustees.
I am happy to say that I did get a very well qualified application that I'll be
bringing to you for our police officers pension. This is what we are currently accepting applications for.
if anybody is interested. Send them away. >> share and share likes, that's word out.
items by city manager. >> I'd like to wish vice mayor barbara blonder a happy birthday.
I'd also like to quickly tell the commission and the community that the city has completed
the purchase of the beacon and billing street property in the fuller wood neighborhood.
we have completed the purchase of the avery theodore street property on the west side of town,
on the west side of the san sebastian river, and we have completed the purchase of the vacant lot on may street. Thank you very much.
>> if I may interject, don't tell my husband, but that might be the best birthday gift I could have gotten those depositions.
thank you for closing on this. >> that's very happy birthday. We're so proud of the work that you do here too,
and we're very fortunate to have a commissioner that's as intelligent,
articulate, and caring and passionate about the city as yourself.
>> it's very sweet and thank you. >> as well. We all admire you. >> appreciate.
>> we wish you the best. Yes, we do. Items by mayor and commissioners.
>> yeah, I have something. It's going to be short. I go to be long.
the property that that was voted in for the the art exhibit.
I have a suggestion for that. The suggestion is, we just bought that property on may street and I recall that you had
wanted something to go over there on that lot that we bought going over the bridge.
>> are you talking about the public art project? >> van dyke.
>> I'm talking about to go in the roundabout. >> the may street. >> the may street art project.
>> it was put on the peanut. I'm suggesting that that go over there on that may street property.
because then people can pull up and see it because that ground, I don't know if you guys ever really like look at that little roundabout,
but it's not even land. He's going to have to build that whole land up to put that there,
and it's going to need a lot of maintenance because it's cocina, and it kind of caves in and it's going to get wet a lot.
you had suggested you wanted something to go over there.
if you put that project over there, the man can get there when it does need maintenance because it's offside the road,
people that want to actually see it and walk around this exhibit.
can actually pull up in there and see it. Because if you put it in that peanut, a roundabout,
whatever we're calling it, it's going to cause traffic congestion.
people are going to be seeing it, and it's going to need more maintenance because it's not on solid ground.
I went out to that land and it's even.
it doesn't flood there according to the guy that sold us the property.
it would be like it would have like a tree background backdrop,
and it would be more like a little park for the people in that particular neighborhood.
if we're going to spend that money and we spend that money for the land, I think we should put them together.
that's just my perception. I don't know how you guys feel about that. >> interesting. Well,
I was thinking about that project and I think we know where we are on that contract with the artist,
where we are with the contract. >> we have completed
the first milestone and are in the process including the second milestone,
which we would have to pay the artist through the second milestone, I believe.
that would leave us if $162,500 that we have not encumbered on that project to date. That's where we stand.
>> is that 162,000 what's remaining except the include the construction cost?
>> that is in its entirety, yes. >> I would like to suggest that perhaps we re evaluate. Take a moment.
I mean, this is brought up on the fly here, but it's worthy of consideration.
if the commissioners are interested in investigating a little bit further,
and see how that would work, the feasibility of it. I would be in favor of doing that.
>> I tell you my first thought was when it was selected.
I got some word from some of our law enforcement people, they were worried that people would be sleeping in it,
so that would be my only concern on that site on main street. >> I get sleep roundabout.
>> no. I'll consider it. That's just the first thing.
>> that may be part of the thing that needs to be looked at. >> yeah, exactly.
>> I think it's worthy of consideration. If I were the artist, I would have to,
I'm worried about how the artist would respond because they he may have to just reconceptualize the whole thing,
but based on the site change. That would be a big.
>> worth listening hearing more. >> I think it'd be worth having a conversation about
what we intend to do with that property in the long run. Because it may not fit with the long run plan.
the timing may not work out perfect for a piece of art. I mean, for that piece of art to go there,
but maybe one in the future. >> perfect. Anything else?
>> no, that's it. >> too late. >> too late.
>> I think I've said enough.
>> I just want to say that a lot of people mentioned it was hard to do this job.
I don't consider it hard at all. I mean, I have my opinions and I've been the 401 vote
before and I've been on a 32 losing vote before.
but it's a great pleasure to work on all five of you and it's easy.
we have a great community who are respectful and give us good information,
and I don't consider it hard. Please consider running for a city commission in the future.
>> that's right. I think they just mean hard in the sense that, you're torn a lot.
but yeah, rarely do we get people that are just downright abusive.
most people are very respectful and considerate of our time.
but with that said, I do not have anything for tonight,
and I think it's time to adjourn. Thank you. >> thank you.
>> thank you.