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[8:42] [paper rustling]
[8:48] I'm going to call the September 21st,
2026, St. Clair Shore City Council.
[8:50] meeting to order. Abby, please call
the roll.
[8:53] Mayor Walby? Here.
[8:55] Council member Burges? Here.
[8:57] Council member Karen? Here.
[8:59] Council member Frederick? Present.
[9:01] Council member Rubelo? Here.
[9:03] Council member Roosey? Here.
[9:05] Council member Vitali? Here.
[9:07] A quorum is present.
[9:08] Please rise for the pledge.
[9:09] [shuffle]
[9:11] I pledge allegiance to the flag of
the United States of America,
[9:16] and to the republic for which it
stands,
[9:19] one nation under God, indivisible,
[9:22] with liberty and justice for all.
[9:24] [shuffle]
[9:27] [sound]
[9:32] Item two is proclamations
[9:33] and presentations.
[9:35] We have a uh a number of uh
proclamations,
[9:37] actually seven of 'em.
[9:39] But we have a a presentation from uh
our state rep.
[9:41] Uh, Alicia St. Germain, come on up.
[9:43] I know she's going to give us some
[9:45] legislative updates, so thank you for
coming.
[9:47] Thank you.
[9:49] [paper rustling]
[9:52] Well, thank you for having me.
[9:54] Uh, my name is Alicia St. Germain,
and I'm the state representative
[9:57] uh for this district. My district...
[10:00] goes from say 21 and a half mile in
Chesterfield to
[10:04] 12 mile in the shores. A little bit
of Roseville,
[10:08] Um, so thanks. Um, I just wanted to
give what I call a mini legislative
update. All good stuff though.
[10:15] Um, I am the vice chair of natural
resources, which is happens to be my
favorite committee.
[10:20] Education, I said an education,
health and economic competitiveness.
[10:26] Um, so I just want to go over some
bills that have passed the house with
strong bipartisan support, just some
of them.
[10:32] Uh, the first one is what I call the
muck bill.
[10:36] Um, and I'm sure everybody's heard of
the M-wall-eye or the muck
[10:39] that's consuming some of our shore
lines.
[10:42] Um, what this bill would do is it
would simply remove the red tape
[10:47] so that a property owner can hire a
contractor to to clean up the muck.
[10:53] I don't think that you should have to
get a permit through the state to
clean up your yard or or front yard.
[10:59] So that's what the muck bill does.
Um, every bill that I seem to
introduce has a nickname, so bear
with me here.
[11:06] Uh, the second one, um, I call it the
brown alert.
[11:10] If if we're familiar with um some of
the combined sewage overflows
[11:16] from Oakland County into Macomb
County waterways,
[11:20] what the brown alert would do is it
would notify residents of an area
[11:25] when dangerous levels of E coli water
are discharged into that water.
[11:31] So people know, don't go kayaking on
the Clinton River
[11:34] for 24 hours, 48 hours, whatever that
might be.
[11:39] Um, another bill, it's what I call
the first responders protection bill.
[11:45] Uh, what that does is it creates a
halo, so to speak,
[11:49] around a first responder so that they
could do their job effectively.
[11:53] So, in other words, just there to
protect our, um,
[11:58] first responders from getting injured
and allows them to do their job
without interference.
[12:04] Um, another one, uh, Marina
protection bill.
[12:08] So, we're surrounding, we're in the
nautical mile, right? We're
surrounded by beautiful marinas, lots
and lots of boats.
[12:15] What this bill does is if a boat is
abandoned
[12:18] on a Marina property,
[12:22] it allows that Marina after so many
months of unpaid, um, invoices,
[12:30] allows the Marina to start the lean
process.
[12:33] so that they can remove the boat or,
you know, contact the bank,
[12:37] um, boat owner, whatever that might
be.
[12:40] Um, so it, uh, helps our Marina stay
clean
[12:45] and, um, protects our Marina business
owners.
[12:50] Um, the fifth bill, this one I'm
pretty proud of.
[12:54] Um, I call this the golf cart bill.
And, um, what it does
[13:00] is it it simply allows municipalities
the authority
[13:03] to create an ordinance if they so
wish,
[13:06] to allow golf carts in a in the
municipality
[13:10] or in a certain section.
[13:13] Uh, I think we've seen in St. Clair
Shores where, um,
[13:18] well, Jefferson, I was coming down
Jefferson and I don't know what
happened.
[13:22] I was all over the place trying to
make my way here.
[13:26] [Another speaker] We're trying to
improve the roads.
[13:28] No, I'm all over. I was glad. I was
just, uh, it's tough.
[13:33] I haven't been this way in a while.
Actually it's my husband's fault
[13:37] because he does take Jefferson all
the way to Detroit there every day
for work
[13:41] and he didn't tell me, so it's his
fault.
[13:44] Um, but yeah, you know, there's
certain situations where, you know,
let's just say,
[13:50] you know, you have all these boat
owners and they just want to get from
Marina to Marina.
[13:55] I I think the city in coordination
with the people that live here
[14:01] and the police department create
their own ordinance that fits their
needs.
[14:05] I I don't believe that the state
should dictate to every municipality
[14:09] how they conduct their business. So,
[14:13] Um, the good news with that bill is
it will signed into law in July,
[14:18] and it's my very first bill that I
passed.
[14:22] Um, I didn't get one of those fancy
pens from the governor yet,
[14:25] but I'm counting on it soon.
[14:28] Um, other projects that are underway.
Um, I'm proud to say that I secured
[14:34] $2 million for water infrastructure.
[14:37] And if you haven't noticed, water and
water and water infrastructure and
boats are kind of my thing.
[14:43] So, um, I'm working with the Macomb
County public works
[14:47] and coordinating where that money
should be spent for,
[14:51] uh, water cleanup and and canal, not
canals, uh,
[14:57] waterways, um, man-
[14:59] will cover things that like that.
[15:01] So, um, you know, our water
infrastructure
[15:04] along with our roads is very, very
important.
[15:07] Um, muck mitigation,
[15:09] this is Um,
[15:12] uh, you know, I'm proud to say that
we have been working on
[15:15] all levels with our Macomb County
Public Works,
[15:18] Candace Meller, uh, my office,
Senator Hertel,
[15:22] uh, Eagle, DNR, Army Core and um,
[15:28] so we're well underway, underway of
cleaning up the muck and some
[15:32] of the uh, there's three different
locations that were chosen as a
[15:35] chosen as a uh, this is a test trial.
[15:39] So, uh, the three locations are
[15:41] just south of the Clinton River,
[15:43] which is where I call Freedom Boat
Club or
[15:46] um, what's that? Oh, I call it Lance
Cruise Bay,
[15:49] but I think I'm wrong with that.
[15:51] beach.
[15:52] Yeah, you might be right.
[15:53] You're probably right, you're right
there.
[15:56] Um, and then Hidden Cove, uh,
Conominium,
[15:59] um, and then uh, or our Beach right
here, Memorial Beach. So,
[16:07] What we're going to do is uh, remove
the muck
[16:10] and then figure out ways how we can
treat it.
[16:13] Um, and this is going to it's going
to be an ongoing thing,
[16:17] you know, it's going to take a lot of
work on all levels
[16:19] to figure this out.
[16:21] So, um, I'm I'm pretty confident that
if other states are
[16:24] successful, I think Michigan can be
too.
[16:29] especially with the right people that
are so passionate about
[16:32] our, you know, beautiful Lake St.
Clair.
[16:35] Uh, Cormarat.
[16:38] Um, what is a Cormarat, some of you
might be thinking.
[16:43] Um, it's a blackbird, it's a
federally protected bird.
[16:45] They're they're actually quite large.
[16:50] Um, they're migratory.
[16:53] Um, this is the problem with them.
They're there's a lot of 'em.
[16:56] more than ever on our Lake St. Clair.
[17:00] Their droppings, aka their poop,
[17:03] kills every tree vegetation that they
nest on.
[17:06] So they're very destructive to our
landscape and our
[17:09] natural resources.
[17:12] They they kill everything that they
nest under.
[17:16] Um, more importantly, they eat one
and a half pounds
[17:20] of fish per day per bird.
[17:23] Um, and that equals about 80 million
pounds
[17:25] of fish per year.
[17:29] I never I didn't realize, you know,
their population or how
[17:34] bad they were for our environment.
[17:39] I it was one of those things,
[17:41] I'm walking through Metro Beach.
[17:43] I don't know if anybody's been
through Metro Beach lately.
[17:45] I've seen it. I've seen it. It's
incredible.
[17:47] Yeah, there's an island there. It's
called Dog Island.
[17:49] And it is completely just bare trees.
[17:53] Nothing that can live lives
underneath it.
[17:56] That that's so destructive they are.
[17:59] Um, they're loud and um,
[18:01] they're they're just uh, they're a
real nuisance.
[18:06] Um, I've been boating on this like my
entire life,
[18:08] uh, not long ago I was on on the boat
[18:11] on the way to Zafs there.
[18:15] and um, I noticed they're right here,
that's Island Harbor too.
[18:22] and their droppings are so acidic
that they even
[18:25] it even kills like wood on
[18:28] our our historic lighthouses and
things like that. So,
[18:32] um, but to see that many of them in
the middle of the lake,
[18:35] knowing that they're eating that many
fish, that's a problem.
[18:40] Um, I don't want these birds to be so
overpopulated
[18:45] that it wipes out our fishing
industry, and and it can, it has.
[18:51] Um, up in Lake Huron, um, those
birds, the Cormorant birds
[18:56] nearly destroyed the birch population
[18:58] back in the late 1900s.
[19:01] So, we don't want that to happen
here, and I've been
[19:04] working all, you know, all hands on
deck.
[19:06] Um, proud to say that I secured
500,000
[19:10] and working with the DNR so that we
can control
[19:13] their population, not eradicate them,
just control
[19:16] so they're that there's not so many
of them.
[19:20] Um, you know, I don't want there to
be a day where kids are
[19:24] fishing on the Blossom Heath Pier and
wondering where all
[19:26] the darn fish are, you know,
[19:28] we don't want that to happen. So,
[19:31] Um, the DNR have been super
supportive.
[19:34] They were actually very excited that
I reached out to them
[19:37] and said, hey, what are we doing, you
know?
[19:40] So, uh, you know, they had to get a
federal permit
[19:43] to be able to uh, do the things to
control their population.
[19:50] you know, I'm definitely more of a
problem solver than talker
[19:55] and um, you know, I'm going to
continue to work.
[19:59] what state, local, federal,
[20:01] and um, the things that I can
control.
[20:04] Unfortunately, I can't control the
gas prices.
[20:06] I wish I could, but
[20:07] I shouldn't have said that.
[20:10] [laughter]
[20:11] Probably a bad topic. Um,
[20:14] um, but
[20:15] that is all I have.
[20:17] I just want to thank everybody for
having me and I'll stick around.
[20:20] I did bring flyers too if anybody
wants any more
[20:23] information on those cormorant birds.
[20:25] So,
[20:26] um, but birds, muck, Lake St. Clair,
boats, those are all my thing.
[20:31] So thank you for having me. Yeah,
[20:32] we appreciate your your effort
specifically on the lake and
[20:36] helping to keep the lake clean.
[20:37] And we know we have some of the
problems with sometimes the
[20:40] other county and I know you've been
great in Lansing helping us.
[20:42] So we really we really appreciate.
[20:43] We speak on behalf of the city to
thank you for the work on uh the
[20:46] CSO's and the lake clean.
[20:48] Yeah. I'm confident we will get there
one day.
[20:50] You know, my kids, I have a 25 and 23
year old, but the
[20:53] 25 year old lives here in the shores.
[20:56] I didn't I grew up in Roseville.
[20:58] But uh, uh, I married my husband 32
years now.
[21:03] Uh he's a shore, Lake Shore, you
know.
[21:06] Um, so I've uh, have a lot of roots
in St. Clair Shores.
[21:11] You know, my my father-in-law retired
from the police department.
[21:15] Uh, he was one of the founders of
cops for kids.
[21:18] Right. I'm as old enough to say that
I used to my husband and I
[21:22] worked the telethon.
[21:23] Oh yeah, some of you might not know
what a telethon is.
[21:26] I was part of the telethon, you too.
Right.
[21:29] Um, I remember the dating yourself a
little bit.
[21:31] Yeah, I know, right?
[21:33] I remember the days uh the tug of
war, you know, the cops for kids
[21:38] tug of war, um, events and things
like that.
[21:41] Um, they were held behind the Coast
Guard station and we
[21:44] swam there on that beach.
[21:46] Back in the day, I know I'm dating
myself, but
[21:49] [laughter]
[21:51] But yeah, St. Clair Shores is near
and dear and
[21:53] you know, um, thank you so much for
having me.
[21:55] appreciate it. Thank you.
[21:57] [applause]
[22:03] We'll head into the uh,
presentations. We'll start with
[22:06] the beautification awards.
[22:07] Uh residential and business and Mr.
Kieran. Kieran.
[22:11] go down here and we'll we'll start
with the beautification.
[22:13] I think he has some slides first and
then we'll do the uh
[22:16] residential.
[22:17] We have one here and one actually
next meeting and then we'll do
[22:19] the businesses.
[22:21] [tapping]
[22:24] All right. goes.
[22:27] So good evening, everyone.
[22:28] So, um, every year, uh,
Beautification Commission goes out
and uh, surveys the city
[22:32] looking for businesses and
households, uh, to grant
beautification awards.
[22:36] Um, and so we always do these at the
uh, third Monday meeting
[22:40] here in September.
[22:42] And so first, just kind of go through
what the beautification
[22:44] commission does.
[22:46] Uh, they manage a lot of flower beds
all throughout the city.
[22:49] We're talking city entrance signs,
flower beds, and our parks in major
rightaways,
[22:54] um, landscape pots that are located
in various locations.
[22:59] Um, all sorts of great work that they
do throughout the
[23:01] entire community.
[23:03] And it is literally starts, you know,
pretty much from April
[23:08] to start doing the initial spring
cleanup, get the beds
[23:12] all prepped, ready for planting, goes
into fall decorations and
[23:16] then even um, at Christmas time, they
put out wreaths and all the
[23:20] city signs as well that light up in
many locations.
[23:23] So a very tireless group of people.
So if we want to go
[23:25] to the next slide.
[23:27] So this is thefication commission and
I know I got several members
[23:29] here tonight.
[23:31] And see Diana Lintz is back there,
that's our treasure.
[23:34] Mary Ann Motika is over here.
[23:37] Um, Lynn Brown, and Lil Claycomb, is
our chairperson.
[23:41] So, um, thank you for all the
commission members that are able
[23:44] to come out here tonight.
[23:45] And a special thanks to uh,
especially Lynn, um,
[23:47] in terms of going through all the
beautification awards and
[23:51] managing this whole process for us
this year.
[23:53] Um, so it's a really is a tireless
group of people.
[23:56] No knowing the members, but also
several volunteers that we have.
[24:00] And so if anyone is interested, we're
always looking for volunteers.
[24:03] You can see Lil here at the end of
the meeting and uh, she will
[24:07] definitely put you to work somewhere
in the city.
[24:10] So, um, but an absolute awesome group
of people that we have.
[24:14] And quite frankly, I've been on it
for 15 years now with them.
[24:18] A lot of the members I started with
15 years ago are still there.
[24:21] Um, so it's a very stable, dedicated
group of people that
[24:24] we have that uh, does all this great
work around the city.
[24:28] And also the sex one, we have a lot
of great businesses that help
[24:31] us out.
[24:32] Um, you know, in terms of halls,
well, Hall's nursery still helps us,
you know, they're located
[24:38] over on uh, on uh, industrial drive
now versus their old location.
[24:42] They still help us with wreath every
year and bows and all
[24:45] sorts of good work.
[24:46] Um, landscape services is definitely,
um, very active
[24:50] with our group.
[24:51] especially since now Paul's sister,
Mary is now on the
[24:54] commission.
[24:55] Bonus for us.
[24:56] Um, so years landscape.
[24:58] taping over on Little Mac, great
supporter of ours.
[25:01] And as well as First State Bank in
the spring.
[25:04] All the red tulips that start popping
up all around the city.
[25:06] The bulk of those are all donated by
First State Bank over many years.
[25:10] And Lil makes sure she gets a new
bunch every single year from them.
[25:14] They look forward to seeing her.
[25:16] each fall to make sure she gets those
uh so we get those planted.
[25:18] So they're all ready for spring.
[25:20] So with that,
[25:22] I'll go to the next one.
[25:23] Mary, you want to do the residential
award?
[25:25] Again, we have one, uh we had two, we
have one today and one at
[25:28] the next meeting.
[25:29] Pam and Bob Mason, come on up here.
[25:31] [applause]
[25:36] Good evening, how are you? Good, how
are you?
[25:38] Very good, thank you.
[25:39] Uh, they have a beautiful home there
and there it is, uh up there.
[25:42] It's in the north end of St. Clair
Shores, just off of 12 mile there
[25:45] and Glorious Street.
[25:46] Uh, beautiful front and back home.
[25:48] Uh, really an oasis almost, I guess I
could say, uh with the pool
[25:52] and everything else.
[25:54] So, we will um, read your
proclamation. So,
[25:58] 2026 beautification award, Pamela,
Pam and Bob Mason.
[26:03] Whereas the Mayor and Council of the
City of St. Clair Shores on behalf
[26:05] of the Beautification Commission,
[26:07] deemed it fitting and proper to
publicly recognize the outstanding
[26:10] efforts made by individuals in
helping to beautify our neighborhoods
[26:13] and maintain the image of our city.
[26:17] Pam and Bob have displayed community
spirit and willingness to enhance
[26:20] the beauty of their property, which
demonstrates a strong sense
[26:23] of civic pride.
[26:26] Now, therefore, be it resolved that
the Mayor and Council of the City of
[26:29] St. Clair Shores, on behalf of our
citizens,
[26:32] deemed it an honor and a pleasure to
extend our congratulations to
[26:36] Pam and Bob Mason on receiving the
2026 beautification award.
[26:42] Congratulations.
[26:44] [applause]
Job well done.
[26:45] [applause]
[26:56] Again, it was a, it's a beautiful
home.
[26:57] We, we, we appreciate what you do for
the neighborhood.
[27:00] You make the, make the whole street
look much better.
[27:02] So again, thank you so much for being
an award winner.
[27:06] We appreciate it. Thank you.
[27:07] [applause]
[27:15] And next up we have um, the one of
the business award winners?
[27:19] And I want to go to I'm bring up
Katie Dom,
[27:21] who is with Motor City Design Works
over on Jefferson.
[27:26] So first read your proclamation here.
[27:29] I'm getting like the mirror.
[27:32] Or else Abby put these in smaller
print.
[27:34] I think she put them in smaller
print, by the way.
[27:37] Whereas the Mayor and City Council of
City of St. Clair Shores, on
[27:40] behalf of the Education Commission,
deemed it fitting and proper to
[27:43] publicly recognize the outstanding
efforts made by commercial
[27:46] businesses in helping to beautify our
business districts and maintain
[27:48] the image of our city.
[27:50] Whereas Motor City Design Works has
displayed community spirit and a
[27:53] willingness to enhance the beauty of
its property, which demonstrates a
[27:56] strong sense of civic pride.
[27:59] Now, therefore, be it resolved that
the Mayor and City Council of the
[28:02] City of St. Clair Shores, on behalf
of our citizens, deemed it an honor
[28:05] and a pleasure to extend our
congratulations to Motor City Design
[28:07] Works 2026 business beautification
award winner.
[28:12] [applause]
[28:23] [laughter]
[28:26] Congratulations, thank you. Job well
done.
[28:28] just want to just check out her
beautiful property there in
Jefferson.
[28:31] Um, we did a taping for uh the
Council Connection show.
[28:35] And it's amazing what she turned
basically what would have been an old
[28:38] gas station way back when into.
[28:41] Um, from the inside and outside.
[28:43] Wonderful job and thank you for all
the hard work you did in your
property.
[28:47] Greatly appreciate it.
[28:49] And with that, I do not see anyone
from Mark Yori Catering.
[28:53] Nope, so we'll try to bring them back
at the next meeting here.
[28:56] Okay, yep, okay. All right.
[28:58] again, thank you for all the
beautification uh commission
[29:01] members for all your hard work.
[29:02] And again, if anyone's interested in
helping out, there are plenty of
[29:05] volunteer opportunities throughout
the year.
[29:08] Um is a great group of people to get
involved with and help out your city.
[29:12] So again, thank you everybody.
[29:14] Thank you. Appreciate it. Thank you,
Councilman.
[29:16] [applause]
[29:29] The next one is St. Paul's Lutheran
Church.
[29:31] 100th anniversary proclamation we did
there last Thursday, we were
[29:34] over there for uh the historical
marker, I know.
[29:36] Come on up.
[29:37] We had I think we had a pretty good
contingent.
[29:39] I know they don't have a pastor, I
believe currently, but they have a
[29:42] a strong membership over there.
[29:44] So, come on up.
[29:50] Good evening, how are you?
[29:53] Good evening.
[29:54] Most of you I I saw at the historical
marker that that is now.
[29:58] sitting there greater Mac right on
the corner colony.
[30:00] Come on up line up here.
[30:03] Big group here. What are you? How are
you? Fantastic.
[30:07] Well, hello. Hello.
[30:10] All right.
[30:11] Is anyone going to speak? I'll I'll
read.
[30:13] Does anyone want to say a few words?
[30:15] I was just going to say thank you.
[30:16] Oh.
[30:18] All right, well, let me read this and
then you can say thank you.
[30:20] If anyone else.
[30:23] Proclamation to St. Paul's Lutheran
[30:24] Church in honor of its 100th
anniversary.
[30:28] Whereas the American Council,
[30:29] the city of St. Clair Shores wish to
[30:30] acknowledge and honor St. Paul's
[30:32] Lutheran Church in celebration of its
[30:34] 100th anniversary.
[30:36] St. Paul Lutheran Church dedicated
its
[30:39] first church building at its current
[30:41] location in October 1926.
[30:44] The present church building located
at
[30:46] 22915 Great Mack, that's just
[30:49] on the south end, just a little bit
[30:51] past the post office there, a little
south.
[30:53] was constructed in 1956 and continues
[30:56] to host worship services every Sunday
[30:59] and on holidays to which all are
welcome.
[31:03] St. Paul Church throughout its
history,
[31:05] St. Paul Church has been involved has
[31:07] been a valued community partner by
[31:09] providing space for municipal
elections
[31:11] and hosting numerous community groups
and activities.
[31:14] It has been blessed with dedicated
men
[31:16] and women of their congregation who
[31:18] sponsor an annual baby shower to
assist
[31:21] Compassion Pregnancy Center in
Clinton
[31:24] Township, providing prenatal services
[31:26] and support post delivery to mothers,
[31:29] as well as supporting an annual
giving
[31:30] tree at Christmas, assisting
Lighthouse
[31:33] Outreach, Detroit Rescue Mission
[31:35] Ministries, in providing Christmas
gifts
[31:38] to families in need.
[31:40] Whereas the women of the congregation
[31:42] host a rummage sale each spring and
fall,
[31:44] offering clothing and household goods
[31:46] to the community at a very low cost,
[31:48] while keeping such items out of
landfills.
[31:50] With proceeds supporting Church
ministry
[31:53] and mission work through the Lutheran
[31:55] Women's Missionary League, which also
[31:57] provides disaster relief assistance
[31:59] throughout the United States and
around the world.
[32:02] Now therefore, the mayor and council
[32:04] of the city of St. Clair Shores on
[32:06] behalf of all our residents, do
hereby
[32:09] congratulate St. Paul's Lutheran
Church
[32:12] on celebrating its 100th anniversary,
[32:17] and express sincere appreciation for
[32:19] a century of faith, service,
[32:22] and dedication to the community and
[32:24] wish for many, many more years of
[32:27] continued success.
[32:29] Congratulations.
[32:30] [applause]
[32:37] say a word or so?
[32:38] Just want to say thank the
proclamation says everything.
[32:41] Just want to say thank you, Mr.
Mayor.
[32:42] Thank you, uh, Council.
[32:44] It's uh, pretty amazing to to to be
around for 100 years.
[32:48] Hopefully be another 100 years to
years to come.
[32:51] Well, and to just I think the thank
you really is more from us to you.
[32:57] Thank you for being part of this
community for 100 years.
[33:00] and provided the Lord to, we
appreciate
[33:02] all you have done for this community
for 100 years.
[33:04] and we Lord willing it'll be another
[33:06] 100 years. So we thank you for
[33:08] everything you have done. Right,
right? So.
[33:11] again, congratulations.
[33:12] Thank you for everything you've done
in this community. We appreciate it.
[33:14] [applause]
[33:21] Joanne, you need to come up.
[33:26] Okay. So.
[33:36] Thank you. Thank you.
[33:39] Nice work.
[33:44] The band's been here for 90 years.
[33:47] I know he's been here for 90 years.
[33:48] I think and the city's been paying
him
[33:50] for like 39 years, you know that,
right?
[33:52] Because he's retired.
[33:55] Good for you.
[34:07] Maple Benjamin Hunters uh anniversary
proclamation.
[34:11] Come on, oh, yeah, how are you? Great
to see you.
[34:14] right here. Stand right here.
Fantastic.
[34:17] everybody. Well, read it then you can
say a few words. How's that?
[34:20] Okay. Sounds good.
[34:21] All right, we'll put that over. Get
the mic ready.
[34:26] Maple Benjamin Canal.
[34:30] Whereas in the early 1900s, before
[34:32] the region became heavily populated,
[34:33] the shores of Lake St. Clair served
[34:36] as a popular retreat for Detroit
[34:37] residents seeking recreation and
respit
[34:39] from city life.
[34:41] To expand waterfront access and
support
[34:44] residential development, an extensive
[34:46] network of dredged canals were
created
[34:48] throughout the city, including the
Lake
[34:50] St. Clair Gardens Annex subdivision
[34:52] where Maple and Benjamin Streets are
located.
[34:54] The Maple Benjamin Canal has for 100
years been a
[34:58] integral part of the city's unique
waterfront identity,
[35:01] providing residents direct access to
Lake St. Clair and
[35:04] supporting a vibrant boating and
residential community.
[35:09] Whereas the centennial of Maple
Benjamin Canal provides an
[35:13] opportunity to celebrate the canal's
historical significance
[35:16] and recognize the generations of
residents who have continued to
[35:19] preserving and enjoying this
treasured community.
[35:24] Now, therefore, be it resolved
[35:26] that the Mayor and Council of the
City of St. Clair Shores
[35:29] on behalf of all its residents, do
here, do hereby proclaim
[35:32] the recognition of the 100th
anniversary of the
[35:35] Maple Benjamin Canal
[35:38] and extend best wishes to all
residents and families celebrating
[35:41] this important milestone with
gratitude for the canal's enduring
[35:45] contribution to the character,
heritage, and vitality
[35:48] of our community.
[35:51] Congratulations.
[35:52] Thank you so much for
[35:55] [applause]
[36:00] There you go.
[36:01] Just a few
[36:02] Your name?
[36:03] words. My name's Judith Wallen.
[36:05] I'm a long-time resident of the Maple
Benjamin Canal.
[36:09] Um, I've seen many transitions
throughout the years.
[36:13] But just think how long we've been
here, a hundred years.
[36:17] Um, they show on, I think I gave them
a little thing that
[36:20] showed all the little tracks.
[36:24] Uh, what happened with the crash, the
stock market kind of stopped that.
[36:30] But we're back, we're building, we're
enjoying the lake and
[36:33] thank you so much for this
declaration to our
[36:36] 100th anniversary.
[36:39] Thank you.
[36:40] It's our pleasure. Thank you.
[36:41] Thank you.
[36:42] [applause]
[36:47] [laughter]
wants that one. He wants that one.
[36:52] And additionally,
[36:53] Yes, I'll I'll make copies of this
and make sure each
[36:56] homeowner gets a copy.
[36:58] That'd be great. That'd be awesome.
[36:59] We appreciate that.
[37:00] If if not we can get if not we can
get it through the city.
[37:02] Either either way we'll take care.
Abby will help you with that.
[37:05] All right.
[37:06] Thank you.
[37:07] [applause]
[37:12] Uh, Moore Veterinary Hospital.
[37:16] Fun up.
[37:16] Good evening.
[37:17] How are you?
[37:19] Just fine.
[37:19] Fantastic.
[37:21] Very good.
[37:23] Hi, how are you?
[37:24] Good, how are you?
[37:25] Great. S- right here, we'll we'll
read this proclamation
[37:27] and we'll have you say a few words.
[37:28] How's that?
[37:29] We're going to put you on the spot.
[37:31] Yeah.
[37:32] No problem.
[37:33] I I get stuck, so you got to do it.
[37:37] In honor of the 90th anniversary of
Moore Veterinary Hospital.
[37:42] Where's the Mayor and Council, the
City of St. Clair Shores,
[37:45] please do recognize Moore Veterinary
Hospital
[37:47] as it celebrates 90 years of
compassion, veterinary care,
[37:50] professional excellence and dedicated
service to generations
[37:54] of families and their beloved pets.
[37:58] More Veterinary Hospital was founded
in 1936 by Dr.
[38:04] Charlie Moore, beginning a legacy of
veterinary service that has
[38:07] continued for nine decades
[38:09] and touched the lives of countless
animals and families
[38:12] throughout the community.
[38:14] In 1945, brothers Howard and Gray
Nurse returned from
[38:18] World War II and began their
veterinary education,
[38:21] demonstrating the dedication that
would lead them to carry
[38:24] the practice forward.
[38:26] In 1966, Dr. Moore retired and
entrusted his practice to
[38:29] the two brothers.
[38:32] As the practice grew, Moore
Veterinary Hospital moved from
[38:35] Detroit to a new facility in St.
Clair Shores in 1975.
[38:40] Becoming an important and lasting
part of our community.
[38:44] In 1986, Dr. Richard Nurse, son of
Dr. Howard Nurse, purchased
[38:49] the hospital and continued the
family's multi-generational
[38:52] commitment to veterinary medicine.
[38:56] For nine decades, Moore Veterinary
Hospital has continually adapted
[39:00] to advances in veterinary medicine
while maintaining the
[39:03] personal attention, compassion, and
trust upon which it was
[39:05] founded.
[39:07] The history of Moore Veterinary
Hospital is not simply the
[39:10] history of a business,
[39:12] but a story of family, dedication,
community
[39:15] and the special bond between people
and their pets.
[39:20] Now, therefore, be it resolved that
the Mayor and Council of
[39:23] the City of St. Clair Shores on
behalf of all its citizens
[39:26] extend our congratulations and best
wishes to Moore
[39:29] Veterinary Hospital on celebrating
its 90th
[39:32] anniversary and wish them many
[39:35] more years of continued success.
[39:38] Congratulations.
[39:39] [applause]
[39:46] you can just say.
[39:48] Uh, we're not a hundred years yet.
[39:49] No, but we're we'll be there in 10.
[39:51] That's still 90's pretty good. 90's
pretty good.
[39:54] Uh, but it's been fun, we, as you
said, we were in Detroit,
[39:58] uh, for a long time and when we came
out here.
[40:02] It's a very, very good decision that
we made.
[40:05] We're very happy with St. Clair
Shores.
[40:07] Um, so we keep on going.
[40:09] Thank you. We appreciate it. Thank
you so much for everything.
[40:14] [applause]
Thank you.
[40:15] [applause]
[40:20] we're catering, and we don't see
anyone here,
[40:23] so we'll, we'll bring them back too.
[40:32] Proclamation for
[40:36] Donna Flaherty.
[40:38] Come on up.
[40:40] [applause]
[40:44] How are you, Donna?
[40:48] [laughter]
[40:50] I'll read this and you can say a few
words, please.
[40:52] I've seen you, Tiffa, you can say a
few words.
[40:54] [laughter]
[40:57] Celebrating 50 years of community
business
[40:59] and civic leadership,
[41:03] Whereas the mayor and council of the
city of St. Clair Shores
[41:06] are pleased to recognize Donna
Flaherty
[41:09] for more than five decades of
dedicated service,
[41:11] community involvement,
entrepreneurship and
[41:14] unwavering commitment to the city of
St. Clair Shores
[41:18] and for sure to the nautical mile.
[41:21] Donna came to St. Clair Shores more
than 50 years ago after
[41:24] growing up in Michigan's Upper
Peninsula.
[41:27] Beginning her career in the community
as a teacher and
[41:30] ultimately making St. Clair Shores
[41:33] where she raised her three sons and
built lifelong friendships
[41:36] and relationships with generations of
residents
[41:39] and local business owners.
[41:43] In 1985, Donna and her late husband,
Paul,
[41:46] found Gifts A'Float, beginning more
than a 40-year
[41:49] entrepreneur journey on the nautical
mile.
[41:53] In 1989, the business was transformed
into a distinctive
[41:56] retail destination featuring
nautical,
[41:59] Great Lakes, boating, and maritime
merchandise.
[42:02] In 2011, after more than 25 years at
its original
[42:05] location,
[42:08] Gifts A'Float moved to 25020
Jefferson, which is really just
[42:10] about across the street.
[42:13] Remaining on the nautical mile, of
course, continuing the
[42:16] commitment to the district Donna has
worked so tirelessly
[42:18] to promote.
[42:20] Donna helped co-found the Nautical
Mile Merchants
[42:23] Association, an organization
dedicated to promoting,
[42:25] strengthening and advancing the
business and attractions
[42:28] along the St. Clair Shores nautical
mile,
[42:33] serving as its president, director
since 2009 and
[42:36] becoming one of the district's most
recognizable and dedicated
[42:39] advocates.
[42:42] Donna has served in the city's tax
increment finance authority
[42:44] board since the 1990s,
[42:47] participating in long-term planning
and improvements that
[42:50] have helped shape the Nautical Mile
and surrounding community,
[42:55] including projects involving Wahby
Park, the Festival of
[42:58] Lights, and improvements at Blossom
Heath Park, as well as
[43:01] the volunteering with the St. Clair
Shores Memorial Day
[43:04] Parade Committee and the St. Clair
Shores Goodfellows.
[43:08] Now, therefore, be it resolved,
[43:10] that the mayor and council of the
city of St. Clair Shores,
[43:13] on behalf of all our residents,
publicly recognize and honor
[43:17] Donna Flaherty
[43:20] for her more than five decades of
service, leadership,
[43:23] entrepreneurship, and dedication to
the city of St. Clair Shores.
[43:29] Congratulations, Donna.
[43:30] [applause]
[43:45] I'm just honored, I'm gonna probably
cry with happiness.
[43:50] But I love our city.
[43:52] Well, you've always been a great
proponent, not over the Nautical
[43:54] Mile, but of St. Clair Shores, and
we, we want to thank you for
[43:57] all you have done to promote that and
make the Nautical Mile. It's
[43:59] just your baby and it's always been
that way.
[44:01] Oh, this is a beautiful city.
[44:03] Lovely people.
[44:05] [laughter]
[44:07] Well, thank you. And then we're very
emotional.
[44:09] Thank you, for everything. We
appreciate it.
[44:11] And thank you very much.
[44:14] Good evening. Thank you.
[44:15] [applause]
[44:27] And the last one is Constitution
Week, of course.
[44:29] September, September 17th through the
23rd.
[44:33] Uh, I know we got the Daughters of
the American Revolution,
[44:35] all right. Come on up, Greta.
[44:37] Good to see you.
[44:40] Sit, stand here, I'll read this.
[44:42] How are you this evening?
[44:45] And then you can say a few words if
you don't mind, right?
[44:49] We appreciate your organization too,
I mean, you were
[44:51] instrumental in reading the
declarations for the
[44:53] uh, 250th of the July 4th, so we
appreciate that. We, we, we
[44:56] said it back then, but publicly since
you're right here, we do
[44:59] appreciate the work.
[45:00] do and and how that turned out. It
turned out. It turned out very well
at at at Veterans Memorial Park.
[45:05] Okay.
[45:06] It was actually not July 4th,
actually not July 4th, actually it
was July, yeah that's correct.
[45:09] When everyone read it in America on
that date.
[45:12] I I I realized my error.
[45:13] [laughter]
[45:16] And I wanted to correct it before
maybe someone up here corrected me,
[45:19] maybe your husband or Mr. Karen or
someone like that. So
[45:23] Uh
[45:24] proclamation designating September
17th through 23rd, 2026 as
[45:29] United States Constitution Week.
[45:32] Whereas in its 250th anniversary year
of the signing of the
[45:35] Declaration of Independence, which
proclaimed to the world the
revolutionary,
[45:38] revolutionary self-evident truths
that all men are created equal,
[45:43] and are endowed by their creator with
certain unalienable rights,
[45:46] including life, liberty, and the
pursuit of happiness.
[45:51] In this 239th anniversary year of the
drafting of the
[45:54] Constitution of the United States by
delegates
[45:56] to the Constitutional Convention,
which created the enduring
governmental
[46:01] foundation of We the People, securing
these evident, self-evident truths.
[46:08] Whereas it is fitting and proper to
ask our citizens to reaffirm
[46:12] the truths proclaimed in the
Declaration of Independence,
[46:15] reflect upon the personal and
governmental actions necessary
[46:18] to reaffirm and protect these truths
[46:21] as expressed in the Constitution.
[46:24] and execute their duty as We the
People by participating in their
[46:28] governmental, thoughtfully and
actively.
[46:32] It is fitting and proper to accord
official recognition to these
[46:35] anniversaries through patriotic
celebrations which will commemorate
[46:41] the occasion.
[46:43] Whereas Public Law 915 guarantees the
issuance of proclamation by
[46:47] the President of the United States of
America designating September
[46:50] 17th through the 23rd as Constitution
Week.
[46:55] Whereas during September 17th through
the 23rd, the National Society,
[46:58] Daughters of the American Revolution,
the Detroit chapter will celebrate
[47:02] the Constitution and the 235th
anniversary of the Bill of Rights.
[47:07] Now therefore be it resolved, the
mayor and Council do hereby proclaim
the week
[47:11] of September 17th through the 23rd in
the city of St. Clair Shores as
[47:14] the United States Constitution Week,
[47:17] and encourage all citizens to study
the Constitution and reflect on the
[47:22] privilege of being an American with
the rights and responsibilities which
[47:26] they, with with that privilege
entails, remembering that
[47:30] rights are lost, are difficult to
regain.
[47:34] So congratulations for that.
[47:37] [applause]
[47:42] Thank you so much, mayor and Council.
[47:45] Um, this is wonderful to get this
recognition. The Daughters of the
[47:49] American Revolution, um, exists to
keep patriotism alive and to
[47:53] educate the public on um, historic
dates and facts and and people.
[47:58] Um, I personally have ten um
ancestors who fought for this
country,
[48:03] and I'm still researching more.
[48:05] We're actually going to Philadelphia
later this week to uh do some
[48:09] genealogy research.
[48:11] It's fun. I hope everyone in this
room looks into their family tree. We
are
[48:15] probably cousins, no doubt.
[48:17] And um, I know 250 years ago we
didn't have flat cameras, but
[48:22] the fact that you're here, this is
what participatory government's all
about and
[48:25] and it's uh it's a you're patriotic
duty, so thank you all for coming
tonight.
[48:28] Thank you for
[48:29] [applause]
[48:39] Thank you.
[48:42] It's good.
[48:43] [clattering]
[48:44] I can give you five.
[48:49] Thank you.
[48:51] Thank you.
[48:53] Thank you.
[48:55] Thanks, Gran.
[48:57] [cough]
[48:59] Thank you.
[49:01] Thank you.
[49:03] Thank you.
[49:06] Thank you.
[49:09] Thank you.
[49:10] [paper rustling]
[49:16] Item three is audience participation.
[49:18] Hey, America.
[49:19] Oh, yeah, my money.
[49:21] Maybe for the presenters,
[49:23] candidates the official meeting
starts.
[49:25] They don't need to stay if they
don't,
[49:27] or the people who all got
[49:28] proclamations don't need to stay if
they need to go.
[49:30] No, thank you.
[49:31] [laughter]
[49:33] This is your chance.
[49:37] [paper rustling]
[49:44] [clattering]
[49:53] [inaudible]
[49:55] We're going to get your church, I
sure can.
[49:57] Can you see it?
[49:58] [inaudible]
[50:15] So item three is um audience
participation on the agenda items.
[50:20] Abby, do we have any, it's two-minute
timeline to speak on agenda items?
[50:24] Yes, we have 12 speakers. The first
speaker is John Noble, a Roseville
[50:28] resident speaking on agenda item 10A.
[50:32] Okay, thank you.
[50:46] Good evening.
[50:47] My name is John. I'm a Roseville
resident.
[50:51] I have a monthly membership at Shores
Yoga
[50:53] and I attend your social districts
quite often.
[50:57] Um. Great. I love your city. Great.
[50:59] I'm a former minister and an army
veteran.
[51:02] I work in cybersecurity.
[51:04] I know a lot about both surveillance
and cybersecurity.
[51:09] I expect other people are going to
talk to you about those things today.
[51:12] What I want to talk to you about is
this:
[51:16] Don't trust the salesperson.
[51:21] Sales people lie.
[51:23] They tell us that social media is
safe for our kids.
[51:28] They tell us that opioids are safe
for our patients.
[51:33] Trust your local subject matter
experts,
[51:36] the citizens who are here today.
[51:41] not the A P L R sales people.
[51:43] Pardon me, I got a frog in my throat.
[51:45] [throat clearing]
[51:48] I know that many of us are probably
here for the same reason.
[51:52] Um, we're here to talk about Flock.
[51:55] And it's probably our first city
council meeting for a lot of us,
right?
[52:01] Being here is a first step,
[52:04] but it can't be the last. Flock and
all this other nonsense that's
[52:07] happening is happening because
[52:10] for too long, many of us haven't been
active in our communities.
[52:13] One of my core beliefs is that our
communities are healthier
[52:16] when we're all involved.
[52:19] So it doesn't matter to me what your
politics are,
[52:22] whether you're a Democratic socialist
like myself, a libertarian
[52:25] like my buddy Mike over here.
[52:28] Whether you voted for Trump three
times.
[52:30] It's my goal for all of us to spend
less time in front of our screens
[52:34] and more time improving our
communities
[52:37] and helping our representatives make
the right decisions.
[52:40] If that sounds good to you, uh,
please come talk to me afterwards.
[52:43] I will help you connect to something
that works for you.
[52:46] Thank you.
[52:47] [applause]
[52:56] Helen Drolet, a St. Clair Shores
resident speaking on agenda item 10.
[53:07] Also here about the Flock camera.
[53:09] I've been a resident of St. Clair
Shores for 40 years.
[53:13] I think a lot of people are very
concerned about invasion of privacy
[53:16] and the use of information.
[53:20] We already have phones that can track
us.
[53:22] We have already their cars that can
track us.
[53:24] You have your grocery store that know
what you buy.
[53:27] You have Google that find your house.
[53:30] People are getting tired of that.
[53:34] They wonder now, this is the start of
something that we don't know
[53:37] how far is it going to go.
[53:40] This is different. This is not the
same.
[53:45] Now we're going to call it Big
Brother?
[53:47] Are we going to call it Big
Government?
[53:50] Nobody is interested in Big
Government to be followed everywhere
[53:53] they go in every activity they do.
[53:56] Going to church, going to school,
going to the stores.
[54:01] Information being share all over the
country. We know that.
[54:05] Just go online. I'm 73 years old. I
can go online and find why
[54:09] all the Flock cameras are all over
the country.
[54:14] Sterling Heights.
[54:16] I went to a meeting in Sterling
Heights
[54:18] to speak against Flock cameras.
[54:20] This is not just our city, this is
not just Macomb County,
[54:23] this is concerned the state and the
whole country.
[54:30] Other cities are speaking out.
[54:33] Are you watching?
[54:34] Are you watching everybody what other
cities are doing about that?
[54:40] Please, it's time for people to speak
against things they don't care
[54:43] about in their city.
[54:47] Are those information share all over
the country?
[54:50] Yes, they are, and we know that.
[54:53] Are they being used for Flock camera,
are they used for
[54:55] immigration, for ICE?
[54:59] Please, write down.
[55:01] it's time to think about the senators
of both parties who
[55:06] decided to this to speak about the
flock cameras.
[55:10] We have expressing, they are
expressing concern right now
[55:14] from both parties about the use of
flock cameras.
[55:17] So I ask you at this time, since it's
not resolved,
[55:22] that we should put a hold on the use
of those cameras
[55:25] until the state make regulation
[55:28] and the government federal put
regulation.
[55:31] This concern every citizen all over
the United States.
[55:35] Thank you.
[55:36] [applause]
[55:52] Daryl Mudechen.
[55:54] You got it.
[55:55] Uh, St. Clair Shores resident
speaking on agenda 10A.
[56:00] Thank you.
[56:01] It's very ironic that it's
Constitution week.
[56:04] I'd love to hear what the Daughters
of the American
[56:06] Revolution would say about Flock
Cameras.
[56:08] Um, so thank you for being here very
much. I appreciate it.
[56:11] I just want to thank the mayor and
council
[56:12] for adding Flock to the agenda.
[56:14] Originally, it wasn't on the agenda,
[56:16] so I think adding it after the fact
that it was pointed out
[56:18] showed a lot of respect, so I really
appreciate that.
[56:23] I would like to reference the last
time I was up here
[56:25] and read from the standard contract
from Flock.
[56:27] It gives them the rights and
ownership of the data
[56:30] for all types of reasons to be shared
[56:33] and I won't read that again.
[56:35] Uh, I bring it up because I put in a
FOIA request
[56:37] requesting my Flock data into, uh, on
my
[56:39] info on my plate or full name
[56:41] for the month of August of 2026.
[56:45] The request was denied for a few
reasons.
[56:47] One being I'm not under
investigation,
[56:49] so they don't have an incident
number.
[56:50] Uh, that's a policy thing at our
department and I get that.
[56:54] But when I called to talk to the
records office,
[56:56] I talked to one of our sergeants,
[56:57] and they helped me understand the
department policy
[57:00] and why they could not fulfill the
request.
[57:03] I pressed further on why I can't have
what Flock has on me
[57:06] because supposedly it's being sold to
us as data owned
[57:08] by your local police department.
[57:11] I was told, and I am paraphrasing,
[57:13] the data is not theirs to give me.
[57:15] So I am not blaming anyone here,
[57:17] but it's just a lack, not just a lack
of transparency
[57:20] on what info Flock has on us,
[57:22] it's no transparency.
[57:24] I would ask if they have nothing to
hide, why the secrecy.
[57:28] Uh, why is this important?
[57:30] Well because big companies with tons
of cybersecurity
[57:33] get hacked all the time, companies
like Sony Pictures,
[57:36] JP Morgan Chase, Capital One, Central
Bank of Chile
[57:39] and many others including Flock as
reported
[57:42] by 404 Media and that was a recent
report.
[57:45] Uh also cybersecurity firm Hudson
Rock found that at least
[57:48] 35 Flock Safety law enforcement
customer accounts
[57:51] were compromised by info stealer
malware
[57:54] with credentials later up for sale on
Russian
[57:58] cybersecurity forums.
[58:02] So when the next time comes and Flock
gets hacked
[58:05] and the hackers could possibly have
my entire family's
[58:08] whereabouts for a month and great
predictive data
[58:10] on how to victimize me in the future,
[58:12] I am not comfortable with that
[58:14] and law abiding citizens shouldn't
have to put up
[58:16] with being tracked by an
unaccountable company
[58:19] like Flock Safety whose data on us is
not safe
[58:22] and who directly profits on ending
the privacy
[58:24] of their fellow Americans. Thank you.
[58:26] [applause]
[58:42] Joyce Jaki.
[58:44] A St. Clair Shores resident speaking
on agenda item 10.
[58:56] Hello.
[58:58] I'm Joyce. I'm lived in St. Clair
Shores now for oh,
[59:01] longer than I even want to mention.
[59:04] But I strongly urge the officials who
did agree
[59:08] to the, uh, contract with Flock
[59:11] to please very, very seriously
consider
[59:15] annulling it.
[59:18] Um, personally, I don't feel safer
with Flock cameras.
[59:24] Uh, and you know, one of the first
things I thought of,
[59:27] um, when I started thinking more
about Flock cameras
[59:31] was way back to 2001.
[59:34] When the airplanes hit our Twin
Towers.
[59:37] Yes, it was horrific.
[59:39] It was horrible and I was scared out
of my wits.
[59:43] However, when Bush started talking
about the Patriot Act
[59:48] and I'm sure there are people in this
room who lived
[59:51] through this.
[59:53] It was a time of real consternation.
[59:56] Do we want to give up our rights to
the government?
[1:00:00] Do we want to
[1:00:01] give up some of the things that
[1:00:03] our forefathers fought for. What
[1:00:06] what my father fought for.
[1:00:08] Um,
[1:00:09] so again, I
[1:00:12] you know, we were afraid. We were
afraid that it was going to
[1:00:14] become a slippery slope.
[1:00:16] And indeed, it has become a very
slippery slope
[1:00:20] because we've had several other
surveillance legislation.
[1:00:26] Uh, passed.
[1:00:28] And I just want to
[1:00:32] uh, tell you that I'm a firm believer
in our Bill of Rights.
[1:00:35] I don't like to see the Bill of
Rights eroded.
[1:00:39] and I don't think you do either.
[1:00:42] And
[1:00:44] you know, what what what has all this
surveillance doing for us?
[1:00:48] I'll tell you, um,
[1:00:50] I'm not scared of my neighbors.
[1:00:52] I'm not scared of immigrants.
[1:00:54] I'm not scared of people with darker
skin.
[1:00:57] What I'm scared of
[1:00:58] is how the federal government is
trying to uh, put wedges in
[1:01:03] between us and tell us that we should
be scared
[1:01:08] of each other.
[1:01:09] Thank you.
[1:01:10] [applause]
[1:01:25] Daniel Barr, a Saint Clair Shores
resident speaking on agenda item 10.
[1:01:34] Good evening.
[1:01:36] Two weeks ago, other residents and I
stood here and raised
[1:01:39] our concerns about flock.
[1:01:40] Since then, we've seen what happened
in East Point
[1:01:43] with the misuse of this unregulated,
[1:01:46] uncertified, untrain, un uh,
[1:01:49] restrained by Michigan law
[1:01:51] private AI surveillance system.
[1:01:54] East Point was one of the 147 trusted
agencies St. Clair Shores
[1:01:59] shared our flock data with.
[1:02:02] Six days ago, East Point Council
voted 4-1 to end
[1:02:04] its flock contract.
[1:02:07] Trust is the keyword here.
[1:02:09] The facts show again,
[1:02:10] for the last 14 months, flock has
been testing this system
[1:02:16] on the residents of St. Clair Shores.
[1:02:19] Every flock violation is followed by
the same story,
[1:02:21] statements, patches, enhancements,
[1:02:25] rehearsed sales promises and a
request for more time,
[1:02:28] one more time to trust that they got
it right.
[1:02:32] So how long does St. Clair Shores
willing to accept this risk
[1:02:35] and legal liability?
[1:02:38] How long will we ignore that St.
Clair Shores's own policies
[1:02:42] and actions can't prevent what other
trusted agencies
[1:02:45] do with our data?
[1:02:48] Neither St. Clair Shores PD nor Flock
can stop
[1:02:49] the next East Point.
[1:02:52] St. Clair Shores doesn't need another
sales presentation,
[1:02:55] we don't need more testimonials
[1:02:57] or another list of upgrades and
promises
[1:03:01] that the system is now secure.
[1:03:04] I call on the council to protect the
people of St. Clair Shores
[1:03:08] and cancel the flock contract.
[1:03:10] And I want to take one second since I
have a few seconds here,
[1:03:13] I want to thank everybody for showing
up.
[1:03:16] Whether you believe in it or not,
[1:03:18] showing up is the big deal.
[1:03:19] And someone else mentioned it, and I
want to mention it again,
[1:03:22] and I want to uh,
[1:03:23] really acknowledge that.
[1:03:25] Um, that is the important part
[1:03:26] because as I mentioned last time,
[1:03:28] we got to get this right. And this is
our chance.
[1:03:31] Thank you.
[1:03:32] [applause]
[1:03:46] Aaron Dome, a Roseville resident
speaking on agenda item 10A.
[1:04:00] Hi. All right.
[1:04:01] I had something prepared, uh, but I
decided to just wing it.
[1:04:06] I got home today and I had my wife
and my two daughters.
[1:04:10] They were uh, cooking dinner and
playing solitaire,
[1:04:13] and it was wonderful.
[1:04:15] And I had to leave to come here
[1:04:17] to convince people to not set up a
infrastructure for a mass
[1:04:21] surveillance network.
[1:04:25] Why am I doing this?
[1:04:28] [applause]
[1:04:30] And and it's happening like East
Point,
[1:04:35] Florida, it's all over the news.
[1:04:38] People are getting rid of it.
[1:04:39] They don't, we us Americans take our
freedom very seriously.
[1:04:43] And that's why we're all here.
[1:04:46] And it's happening.
[1:04:47] So I really hope we as Michigan can
take our freedom seriously
[1:04:51] and be on the right side of this.
[1:04:55] Or or you guys are going to get left
behind because we're
[1:04:57] doing it.
[1:04:58] We're getting rid of flock. We're
what do petitions,
[1:05:00] whatever it takes. It's happening.
[1:05:02] So, thank you guys so much.
[1:05:04] [applause]
[1:05:16] Jason A.G. uh, speaking on agenda
item 10A.
[1:05:34] Hello, gentlemen. My name's Jason
Die.
[1:05:35] I am the candidate for Attorney
General under the
[1:05:37] Libertarian ticket.
[1:05:39] I'm going to start this off since
it's Constitution week.
[1:05:42] We're going to go to my favorite
part, Article 6,
[1:05:44] paragraph 2, the supremacy clause.
[1:05:47] Follow me here.
[1:05:49] The Constitution and the laws of the
United States which
[1:05:51] shall be made in pursuance thereof.
[1:05:56] So all laws got to be made in
pursuance of this, correct?
[1:05:58] Great.
[1:06:00] And all treaties made or which shall
be made under
[1:06:02] the authority of the United States,
[1:06:05] shall be the supreme law of the land.
[1:06:09] And judges in every state are bound
thereby.
[1:06:13] Right?
[1:06:15] And anything in this Constitution or
laws of any
[1:06:17] state to the contrary, not
withstanding.
[1:06:21] Know what that means?
[1:06:23] Dead on conception. No duty to
enforce, no duty to obey.
[1:06:27] Let's go here to this wonderful, uh,
[1:06:29] Bill of Rights here.
[1:06:30] Get into this, uh, fourth amendment
here.
[1:06:33] The right of the people to be secure
in their persons,
[1:06:36] houses, papers and effects against
unreasonable searches,
[1:06:40] Hmm, what would make a search
unreasonable?
[1:06:42] I'll continue.
[1:06:44] And Caesars shall not be violated,
and no warrants
[1:06:46] shall issue but upon probable cause.
[1:06:50] Hmm, supported by oath.
[1:06:51] You know, that thing every one of you
swore as elected
[1:06:53] officials?
[1:06:54] That?
[1:06:56] Or affirmation, and particularly
describing
[1:06:57] the place to be searched, and the
persons or things
[1:07:00] to be seized.
[1:07:02] Commonly referred to as the
warrant-less search amendment.
[1:07:06] Hence flock.
[1:07:07] Now, I'm going to take it even a step
further.
[1:07:09] Let's get into this wonderful first
amendment here.
[1:07:12] Congress shall make no law respecting
an establishment
[1:07:14] of religion, or prohibiting the free
exercise thereof.
[1:07:19] Or.
[1:07:20] Abridging the freedom of speech, or
of the press,
[1:07:22] or of the right of the people to
peacefully assemble and to
[1:07:26] petition their government for a
redress of grievances.
[1:07:29] I don't know about you, but I don't
feel too free going to
[1:07:31] my church with a freaking flock
camera,
[1:07:33] telling me where I'm going, what
about redressing the
[1:07:35] grievance, uh, here petition in the
government?
[1:07:37] Now you know everybody that's going?
[1:07:39] What kind of database are you really
building?
[1:07:41] Next, we're going to get onto my five
minute,
[1:07:42] at the end of this, we're going to
get into that good
[1:07:44] old Declaration of Independence
because the first
[1:07:47] paragraph's about abolishing corrupt
government.
[1:07:49] [applause]
[1:08:00] Lisa Oxford, a St. Clair Shores
resident, speaking
[1:08:02] on agenda item 10A.
[1:08:08] Good evening.
[1:08:09] Hello.
[1:08:10] I don't have something prepared for
the two minutes.
[1:08:13] I do intend to speak on ALPR systems
later on
[1:08:16] in the evening.
[1:08:19] I'd just like to thank everybody for
coming tonight.
[1:08:23] I don't want to lose sight of what
the system is
[1:08:25] really about.
[1:08:29] It's about the mass warrantless
surveillance
[1:08:31] of the American people and everyone
in our country.
[1:08:38] We heard earlier about how difficult
it was to gain
[1:08:42] these rights.
[1:08:47] It wasn't easy.
[1:08:48] We didn't vote to become a country.
[1:08:53] What will we have to do to retain
them if we lose them?
[1:08:56] Well, if we lose them?
[1:08:58] How will you get them back?
[1:09:00] What happens?
[1:09:08] What kind of country do I want to
live in?
[1:09:14] Well,
[1:09:15] I think that you'll hear a lot about
these systems tonight.
[1:09:20] And it's not just about one company.
[1:09:22] It's about what they are in general.
[1:09:25] It's not about Axon, it's not about
Flock,
[1:09:27] it's not about vigilant.
[1:09:29] There are many different systems.
[1:09:32] But they all do the same horrible
thing.
[1:09:38] There are some decisions we can't
come back from.
[1:09:42] And I hope we make the right ones.
[1:09:45] Tonight I hope to tell you a little
bit about the system
[1:09:48] that maybe you haven't heard yet.
[1:09:52] And that maybe other folks don't
intend to touch upon.
[1:09:56] Because it is something that's
overlooked.
[1:09:59] You're giving up something important.
[1:10:02] for something extremely stupid.
[1:10:05] Well, I thank you for your time.
[1:10:07] [applause]
[1:10:16] Mike Saliba, a Clinton Township
resident,
[1:10:20] speaking on agenda item 10A.
[1:10:32] Hi, I'm Mike.
[1:10:35] I'm Mike Saliba. I'm the chair of the
Libertarian Party
[1:10:38] here in Macomb County, and I'm the
Libertarian Party candidate
[1:10:42] for US House of Representatives here
in the 10th.
[1:10:45] I'm trying to become a member of
government as you
[1:10:47] are all already members of
government.
[1:10:51] So, I spent a lot of time thinking
about past members of
[1:10:54] past governments
[1:10:57] who I'd like to emulate and who I
wouldn't.
[1:11:02] When I think about Benjamin Franklin,
John Adams,
[1:11:05] Thomas Jefferson, and George
Washington,
[1:11:09] and wonder if they would have
utilized a system like this,
[1:11:14] I don't think they would have.
[1:11:17] When I think of Joseph Stalin,
[1:11:20] Benito Mussolini,
[1:11:22] Mao Zedong,
[1:11:24] and Adolf Hitler,
[1:11:27] I think they would have jumped at it.
[1:11:29] Since you're already members of
government, it's up to you to
[1:11:32] decide what kind of historical
company you'd like to keep.
[1:11:36] And it's also up to you to remember
that you are public
[1:11:38] officials.
[1:11:40] We are private citizens.
[1:11:42] We should know everything about you,
you should know
[1:11:44] very little about us.
[1:11:47] Let's co costs take down the cameras
pointed at
[1:11:50] the people
[1:11:53] and we'll just keep a few to be
pointed at you if you
[1:11:56] really need some cameras for your
safety.
[1:11:58] [applause]
[1:12:10] Whitney Boone, a St. Clair Shore, a
Sterling Heights
[1:12:14] resident speaking on agenda 10
[1:12:25] Good evening.
[1:12:26] Evening.
[1:12:27] Mayor and City Council.
[1:12:28] My name is Whitney Brown. Sorry.
[1:12:31] my chicken scratch is terrible.
[1:12:34] I live in Sterling Heights, but a lot
of my family and
[1:12:37] close friends live, spend money, and
sleep here in St. Clair Shores.
[1:12:41] So my family's privacy and safety are
directly at risk
[1:12:43] tonight as well.
[1:12:45] As a registered nurse in a cardiac
cath lab, I love
[1:12:49] technology. It saves lives.
[1:12:50] But our golden rule is to never
blindly,
[1:12:53] keyword there blindly, trust a
machine.
[1:12:58] over human judgment.
[1:13:00] If a heart sensor is uncalibrated by
just 2%,
[1:13:03] that error multiplies instantly into
a missed blockage
[1:13:06] or torn artery.
[1:13:08] In the the same mathematical danger
applies to the flock
[1:13:11] safety cameras.
[1:13:13] Flock claims a 96% accuracy rate,
[1:13:16] but no, no, no, no, no.
[1:13:17] The fine print reveals that that is
per character, not
[1:13:20] per plate.
[1:13:22] So on a seven character or Michigan
plate, a 4% error
[1:13:25] rate compounds.
[1:13:29] That's base mathematical theorem on
error
[1:13:31] propagation.
[1:13:33] So your actual accuracy crashes into
the
[1:13:35] 70s.
[1:13:37] In fact, a real world audit in
Bville, California
[1:13:41] showed flock misreads rates at 71% of
its alerts.
[1:13:47] So, when a dirty lens or Michigan
night glare turns a
[1:13:50] B into an eight, the system flags an
innocent vehicle.
[1:13:53] Officers receive the hot list alert
and expect a high risk
[1:13:55] suspect.
[1:13:58] Not a math error.
[1:14:00] This creates a terrifying reality.
[1:14:02] An innocent mom driving down Harper
or taking her son to
[1:14:05] Veterans Memorial Park could face a
high risk felony stop at gunpoint.
[1:14:10] In Aurora, Colorado, this exact
glitch caused police to
[1:14:13] draw guns on a mother and her
children,
[1:14:15] costing their taxpayers $1.9 million
in a lawsuit.
[1:14:20] That would be these people here.
[1:14:23] Just
[1:14:24] Just weeks ago, on August 6th, 2026,
this exact identical
[1:14:28] gunpoint scenario played out right
here on I I 94.
[1:14:34] So if we can't guarantee rigorous,
independent, daily
[1:14:38] calibration of these cameras, we must
not renew this contract.
[1:14:43] I have cited sources that I will give
to the clerk just
[1:14:45] for your review.
[1:14:47] Thank you.
[1:14:48] [applause]
[1:15:00] Phil Decker, a
[1:15:02] Shelby Township resident
[1:15:03] speaking on agenda item 10.
[1:15:11] Good evening. Uh, my name is Philip.
[1:15:13] Uh, I former resident here.
[1:15:15] But anyway, it's been no secret
[1:15:17] that there's been a lot of public
backlash against Flock.
[1:15:19] But the backlash is reaching a fever
pitch.
[1:15:22] And so far in 2026, 116
[1:15:24] separate municipalities have canceled
their contracts with Flock
[1:15:27] compared to 37 in 2025 and only 1 in
2024.
[1:15:31] Uh, the backlash is very bipartisan
as well.
[1:15:33] Republican Congressman Thomas Massie
[1:15:35] and Democratic Congresswoman Rashida
Talib have both discussed
[1:15:38] introducing legislation to withhold
federal fundings from
[1:15:40] communities that use these devices.
[1:15:42] Democratic Senator Bernie Sanders
[1:15:44] has discussed legislation to ban
these devices entirely.
[1:15:46] Republican Congressman Josh Holly
[1:15:48] has launched a congressional probe
into this company
[1:15:50] and as of two days ago, Politico
reported that the CEOs of Flock,
[1:15:54] Axon, Motorola, and Vercada Solutions
were all invited to testify
[1:15:58] at a hearing regarding this
investigation.
[1:16:01] It was also reported by Wired that
[1:16:03] Flock is now offering severance
buyouts to their employees.
[1:16:06] It doesn't take an expert to see the
writing on the wall,
[1:16:08] and Flock certainly does as well.
[1:16:09] Americans don't want this
surveillance technology on their
streets.
[1:16:12] But the Wired article also mentioned
[1:16:14] in a separate interview where Flock
CEO Garrett Langley essentially said,
[1:16:17] Imagine being a Flock employee seeing
all this hate
[1:16:20] and wondering, why are people so mad
at us?
[1:16:23] We just want them to be safe.
[1:16:25] People are mad because Flock built
[1:16:27] a national surveillance network with
[1:16:29] no oversight or regard to public
opinion.
[1:16:31] People are mad because no one got to
vote on this.
[1:16:34] No one got to see any data showing
[1:16:36] what the benefit to the community
actually is.
[1:16:39] No one was told beforehand what this
system is or how it's going to work.
[1:16:43] No one got any transparency or
consideration for their privacy.
[1:16:47] People are mad because this is
[1:16:49] another company being given cart
blanche by our elected officials
[1:16:50] to exploit every aspect of our lives
for profit.
[1:16:54] People are mad because they recognize
[1:16:56] that mass surveillance is
fundamentally
[1:16:58] incompatible with their
constitutional rights.
[1:17:00] People are mad because now we have
[1:17:02] to take time out of our days to go
[1:17:04] argue over the obvious, that mass
surveillance is wrong
[1:17:07] and has no place in our communities.
[1:17:10] This contract should have been dead
on arrival.
[1:17:13] But let's write that wrong and cancel
it now.
[1:17:15] [applause]
[1:17:31] This is the last speaker,
[1:17:32] Lindsey Schreds, a St. Clair Shores
resident
[1:17:35] speaking on agenda item 10.
[1:17:47] Hi, my name is Lindsey Seda, and I am
a third generation
[1:17:52] resident of St. Clair Shores. My
grandparents lived here, my parents
[1:17:56] and I now live in my grandparents'
home. I own a business here,
[1:17:59] and let's get started. Um,
[1:18:01] I requested a FOIA recently
[1:18:03] for the contract. So if anyone wants
it,
[1:18:06] I have it. Do not pay for it. I
already paid for it.
[1:18:08] So, get a hold of me.
[1:18:10] My issue with Flock is the access
that Flock company actually has
[1:18:13] to our data
[1:18:15] and also the FBI.
[1:18:17] If you look on Flock's website, they
do not have a privacy
[1:18:19] or they do have a privacy policy that
says Flock itself
[1:18:22] may access, use, preserve or disclose
LPR data
[1:18:26] in certain circumstances, including
when legally required
[1:18:29] or when Flock believes doing so is
reasonably necessary
[1:18:32] for things such as legal process,
enforcing this agreement
[1:18:35] or addressing security, fraud,
privacy, or technical issues.
[1:18:39] One, two, the FBI and Peter Thiel
connection.
[1:18:43] I'm surprised this has not come up
yet. I'm happy here to inform you.
[1:18:46] Peter Thiel, if you are unaware, is
the co-founder of Palantir
[1:18:49] Technologies.
[1:18:51] He also co-funded the venture capital
firm Founder's Fund.
[1:18:55] Founder's Fund invested in Flock
safety.
[1:18:59] Flock raised 275 million in 2025
funding.
[1:19:06] Um, and founding, Founders Fund was
one of the investors.
[1:19:10] Flock has not publicly disclosed how
much they have invested though.
[1:19:14] The problem is the connection. Why
would Peter Thiel fund Flock?
[1:19:20] What do you think they want to gain
out of all? If they're going to
[1:19:22] fund all this money,
[1:19:23] you think they're going to gain
something for, right?
[1:19:27] Yeah, so if you're unaware,
[1:19:30] Um, Palantir is a company that
connects
[1:19:34] authorized data sets and identifies
relationships or patterns between
them.
[1:19:39] AKA, um,
[1:19:42] like they they funded, they fund
programs for ICE,
[1:19:45] they funded programs for the Israeli
military.
[1:19:50] Um, and yes, the FBI is an authorized
user in this contract
[1:19:56] and they do work with, have contracts
with Palantir.
[1:20:00] So, my time's up, but
[1:20:01] Yes. Please do your research.
[1:20:03] [applause]
[1:20:15] We're good, right?
[1:20:18] Item four is request to approve the
resolutions to adopt the Stevens Road
[1:20:25] Miss Koto.
[1:20:30] Good evening.
[1:20:31] Good evening, uh, Mr. Mayor and
council members.
[1:20:35] My name is Courtney Sturgis.
[1:20:37] I'm a landscape and urban designer
with Anderson, Eckstein, and
Westrick,
[1:20:40] and tonight I'm here to present the
Stevens Greenway feasibility study.
[1:20:47] This project began as a conversation
between, um,
[1:20:51] the Economic and Community
Development teams from St. Clair
Shores, Eastpoint,
[1:20:58] About the potential for Stevens Road
to become more than just a road,
[1:21:01] but a key connection, um, between the
four communities, more than it
already is.
[1:21:07] Building on that idea, the city of
Warren submitted a grant application
[1:21:10] through SEMCOG's Planning Assistant
program,
[1:21:14] and, um, on behalf of all four
communities, and was awarded
[1:21:17] $40,000 to complete a feasibility
study.
[1:21:21] That funding allowed the communities
to retain AEW, uh, myself
[1:21:25] and, uh, Kyle here.
[1:21:28] to evaluate the corridor, collect and
analyze data,
[1:21:32] engage residents and stakeholders,
and stakeholders, and identify
opportunities for creating a
[1:21:36] continuous west to east Greenway, um,
along Stevens Road.
[1:21:41] Through that process, the project
team examined the corridor segment by
segment,
[1:21:45] worked with the people who live,
work, and travel along Stevens Road
to develop
[1:21:49] the recommendations presented in this
study.
[1:21:51] Next slide, please. Oh, this is
perfect actually.
[1:21:54] Uh, the, the study area extends from
Lawrence Avenue in Centerline where,
[1:21:59] uh, the statewide trail system, um,
uh, the Iron Bell, passes through,
[1:22:04] all the way, um, to the east, uh,
Little Mac here in St. Clair Shores.
[1:22:09] The corridor traverses through
residential neighborhoods,
[1:22:13] commercial and industrial areas, and
civic destinations throughout all
four
[1:22:16] communities.
[1:22:18] The purpose of this study was to
identify opportunities to improve
[1:22:21] safety, connectivity, recreation, and
community identity while providing
[1:22:25] additional transportation options for
residents and visitors.
[1:22:30] Next.
[1:22:32] A really important part of this, uh,
project was the community engagement,
[1:22:37] uh, that took place.
[1:22:39] Input was received from a really
great cross section of people, from
residents
[1:22:42] to business owners, community
organizations, transportation
agencies
[1:22:46] like SMART and MDOT, utility
providers, municipal staff, elected
[1:22:51] officials, um, even a couple that are
here today, and other very important
[1:22:56] stakeholders.
[1:22:57] Great collaborative conversations
were had with so many voices at the
table.
[1:23:02] Over the course of approximately one
year, the project team conducted
seven
[1:23:06] steering committees which was made up
of staff members from each city and,
[1:23:09] um, the consulting team here.
[1:23:11] Uh, there were three stakeholder
meetings, one of which was held at
[1:23:14] Spinler Park in Eastpoint and another
here in, uh, St. Clair Shores at the
[1:23:18] senior activity center.
[1:23:20] There were two public community
engagement events, uh, one of which
[1:23:24] was held in partnership with
Eastpoint and hosted here at City
Hall.
[1:23:28] Uh, corridor wide site visit was
conducted with the steering committee
[1:23:33] and a really successful online survey
that received an amazing 642
responses.
[1:23:40] Next slide.
[1:23:43] There was a a great amount of
feedback from all four communities,
27% of such
[1:23:48] was uh, from St. Clair Shores
residents.
[1:23:50] Next slide.
[1:23:52] One thing that really stood out was
that across the board, 66% of
[1:23:56] respondents were supportive of
something like this happening.
[1:23:59] Um, and if you break that down into
communities, St. Clair Shores
respondents
[1:24:03] were 72% supportive with 11% being
neutral.
[1:24:07] And that's really substantial that
your community is saying this is
something
[1:24:11] that they want.
[1:24:14] Across all engagement efforts, um,
next slide. Thank you.
[1:24:17] Several common themes emerged. So,
participants consistently identified
[1:24:22] a desire for improved pedestrian and
cycling safety among some of the the
[1:24:26] largest intersections, uh, in
Southern Macomb.
[1:24:30] Uh, better crossings at these major
intersections were important,
[1:24:34] increased landscaping and
beautification, better connections
between neighborhoods,
[1:24:38] parks, schools, community
destinations and additional
recreation opportunities,
[1:24:43] and a stronger identity overall for
the corridor for Southern Macomb
County.
[1:24:48] Based on those findings, uh, next
slide.
[1:24:50] The study recommends a continuous
shared use path, which is like a
[1:24:54] paved path that is disconnected from
the roadway, um, through much of
[1:25:00] Stevens Road, supported by
[1:25:01] crosswalk improvements, landscaping,
lighting,
[1:25:03] wayfinding, green infrastructure,
[1:25:05] uh, trail heads and even placemaking
features.
[1:25:09] Specifically in St. Clair Shores, on
the next slide.
[1:25:14] Um, the Stevens Greenway would
utilize existing sidewalks
[1:25:17] over I-94. So we're connecting right
into
[1:25:19] Spinler Park, which is shown there on
the left in that map.
[1:25:23] Um, it would then also utilize
existing planned um and future
[1:25:27] walkways at the Civic Arena.
[1:25:32] And then terminate at the Senior
Activity Center.
[1:25:36] In the small stretch from the Senior
Activity Center to Little Mac,
[1:25:40] Sheros could be added to the roadways
to help
[1:25:43] uh, bring awareness to
[1:25:45] um, vehicular traffic that there are
cyclists present.
[1:25:53] Sheros, just so we know, are just
paint on the road that,
[1:25:56] you know, the ones with the arrows
and the bike.
[1:26:01] And then at the Senior Activity
Center, there's a great
[1:26:04] opportunity to have a trail head
[1:26:06] at the Eastern corridor of this uh
Greenway.
[1:26:10] That would provide parking,
wayfinding, gathering spaces,
[1:26:13] and connections to the nearby
schools,
[1:26:16] parks and community facilities of St.
Clair Shores.
[1:26:20] The recommendations of this plan
focus on improving safety again,
[1:26:23] connectivity and corridor character
[1:26:25] while establishing a clear and
functional end point
[1:26:27] for the Greenway.
[1:26:33] Next slide.
[1:26:35] Uh, so, it's important to understand
that this is just
[1:26:39] a study, a planning document, no
engineering has been completed,
[1:26:41] no uh construction projects have been
authorized and no
[1:26:43] funding commitments are being
requested tonight either.
[1:26:46] The recommendations presented in the
study are intended to
[1:26:49] provide a framework for future
decision-making
[1:26:51] and funding opportunities.
[1:26:54] So what happens next?
[1:26:56] If adopted by all four communities,
the study will serve as a guiding
[1:26:59] planning document that can be used to
pursue future granting
[1:27:02] uh, funding and additional design
work.
[1:27:05] Should future funding become
available, additional engineering,
[1:27:07] public engagement, traffic analysis,
parking evaluations,
[1:27:10] cost estimating and design work would
occur before any construction
[1:27:14] project moves forward.
[1:27:17] Any future project expenditure, grant
acceptance or local funding
[1:27:20] commitment would then come back
before council for consideration
[1:27:22] and approval.
[1:27:25] And really in summary, the Stevens
Greenway feasibility
[1:27:28] study establishes a shared vision for
improving connectivity,
[1:27:31] recreation and the quality of life
along the Stevens road
[1:27:34] uh, corridor while creating a
framework for future
[1:27:37] implementation opportunities.
[1:27:40] Um, with that, I thank you for your
time and would
[1:27:42] happy to answer any questions.
[1:27:44] Questions?
[1:27:46] Miss Burgess.
[1:27:47] All right, thank you so much for all
that.
[1:27:48] Um, just so the public understands a
little bit
[1:27:51] what we're doing tonight by voting is
adopting this study.
[1:27:54] Uh, we're not committing to any the
city to any construction
[1:27:57] or or future future construction.
[1:28:02] Correct.
[1:28:03] Thank you, Miss Burgess. Yes, that is
correct.
[1:28:04] All right. And the study itself, um,
identifies right away
[1:28:07] limitations, uh, parking concerns,
business access issues
[1:28:12] before this would go any further,
would you also have a
[1:28:15] uh, for those impacted, would you
have another like sit down
[1:28:18] session with business owners and
residents that will be affected.
[1:28:23] Yes, that would be ideal.
[1:28:24] All right, great.
[1:28:25] Uh, and if this moves beyond
feasibility study, what funding
[1:28:29] sources, uh, are anticipated.
[1:28:32] There are quite a handful listed in
the study.
[1:28:35] Um, a couple that are great
candidates would be the TAP grant
[1:28:38] uh, through the state and with
federal funding along with
[1:28:42] uh, the Michigan DNR has a trails
fund and um, trust fund
[1:28:45] grant program that would be ideal for
this as well.
[1:28:49] All right, thank you very much.
[1:28:50] Welcome.
[1:28:51] Mr. Matali?
[1:28:52] Uh, I Councilwoman Burgess touched on
a lot of what I
[1:28:55] already had to say.
[1:28:58] Um, but, you know, the St. Clair
Shores portion of this would be
[1:29:02] very small, essentially the Senior
Center.
[1:29:05] The only thing I would be concerned
with is that since
[1:29:08] that is our southern industrial park,
essentially, we have
[1:29:11] a lot of trucks that come in and out
of that area.
[1:29:13] Uh, I would want to make sure that
businesses weren't going
[1:29:16] to be impacted by that and that, you
know, financially
[1:29:19] we're not splitting this evenly four
ways when we barely
[1:29:22] have any of this, but in general, I'm
supportive of
[1:29:24] the project.
[1:29:29] Yes, uh, so, um, when we put the
stakeholder meetings together,
[1:29:35] um, we were asked to invite um, who
we thought would be
[1:29:38] important members of the community to
be part of these
[1:29:41] uh, different meetings.
[1:29:44] And so we asked Grobles to be a part
of it.
[1:29:48] Okay, good.
[1:29:49] And they were actually, not actually,
they were very uh,
[1:29:52] participatory and they were extremely
helpful.
[1:29:54] Um, they were wonderful to work with
and that was obviously one
[1:29:58] of Mike Leinweber's main concerns,
right? Because a huge
[1:30:01] part of that stretch right there is
Grobbel's, and it's their truck docks
and
[1:30:05] so we we definitely recognize that
this is a highly congested area with
trucks
[1:30:11] specifically, and that is something
we would for sure have to
[1:30:15] Everyone talks about how the sausage
is made.
[1:30:17] We literally have a sausage factory.
[1:30:19] [laughter]
[1:30:20] at the end of this. So,
[1:30:22] Uh, I am supportive of the project.
[1:30:24] I just want to make sure that for the
small segment that we have we're not
impacting our businesses.
[1:30:29] Mr. Robello?
[1:30:30] Uh, thank you, mayor.
[1:30:32] So,
[1:30:33] First of all,
[1:30:35] thanks for all the time I know you
guys put in there.
[1:30:37] How many people were continually
attending these meetings?
[1:30:42] Was there 10, 500?
[1:30:45] I would say that, um, on average,
there was probably 30 for the
stakeholder meetings,
[1:30:50] which we had three of those.
[1:30:52] Um, from the the cities, uh, the
communities themselves,
[1:30:56] uh, steering committees were made up
I think of like 10.
[1:31:00] Um, and the 30 on average, there was
probably a core 20 there and 10 came
and go.
[1:31:06] So we had a great cross section of of
different voices.
[1:31:09] Okay, so the plan for this is
basically to go from, we'll say
Vandyke.
[1:31:14] pulling people, I guess it goes both
ways, right?
[1:31:17] From Vandyke all the way down to
Little Mac here in St. Clair Shores.
[1:31:21] Okay?
[1:31:22] Obviously, we're just a little, just
a little, just a little tiny piece of
that puzzle, correct?
[1:31:28] Most of the, most of the the East
Point to Warren to Centerline,
[1:31:34] are are going to be the biggest
benefactors of this. Would that be a
correct statement to make?
[1:31:41] Because I I took a ride today down
Stevens.
[1:31:44] There's some tricky spots as you go,
right? All the way down.
[1:31:47] Absolutely, there's tricky spots.
[1:31:49] when you start getting in the Shaer,
[1:31:52] I don't know how you would possibly,
uh, I mean there's a lot of traffic
there.
[1:31:57] And that would be a big concern to
cross over.
[1:32:02] Now you got to go to the north and
then you get back get back up on
Stevens.
[1:32:06] Um, you got to cross Grossbeck at
some point and keep going.
[1:32:11] into their industrial parks, most of
that is an industrial park for them
too.
[1:32:15] Right.
[1:32:16] And they're going to get all their
stuff fixed up there.
[1:32:18] That's why I sort of look at this and
it's a, it's a real plus for their
communities
[1:32:22] because it looks to me like they
benefit the most out of it.
[1:32:25] Okay?
[1:32:26] They fix all that up there.
[1:32:28] I think one thing that's really
important to note here
[1:32:31] is that even though, um, the portion
of this entire Greenway,
[1:32:36] um, within St. Clair Shores is short,
[1:32:39] we stopped it at Little Mac on
purpose because we wanted to connect
it both
[1:32:43] to the 9 Mac DDA and to the nautical
mile.
[1:32:49] So the intent is to be able to
provide a way to get from
[1:32:53] the west side of Macomb County,
[1:32:57] eastward toward us all the way
accessing our 9 Mac downtown and then
eventually the lake.
[1:33:05] Cuz there's some there's plenty of
points there where there's parking on
Stevens as you go down.
[1:33:10] Correct, yes.
[1:33:11] There's there's everything, right?
There's regular sidewalk,
[1:33:14] there's cars.
[1:33:15] I'm just trying to
[1:33:17] get a handle on on that part.
[1:33:19] And when those people cross some of
the folks there from East Point and
[1:33:24] Center Line, people from other
cities,
[1:33:27] you want them to come down through
into St. Clair Shores because I think
somewhere it says,
[1:33:31] you want them to you want to get them
to you want to get them to the Shores
Arena, local schools and Lake St.
Clair.
[1:33:38] So we'll say now they want to enter
our parks.
[1:33:41] Okay, now which have always sort of
been resident parks to us, correct?
[1:33:46] Have you guys got that figured out?
[1:33:47] So if I come from Center Line and I'm
like, hey, I'm here, this is how it
was build,
[1:33:52] what park can I go into?
[1:33:55] Do I have to buy a pass or
[1:33:57] or ride my bike in?
[1:33:58] You don't want to look at it as a
single point destination, you want to
look at it as an area.
[1:34:03] So, you want to look at it as people
coming to social district, right?
[1:34:08] Or people coming to the nautical mile
as a whole.
[1:34:11] Another way to look at this is it's
also a transportation corridor,
[1:34:15] a non-motorized transportation
corridor.
[1:34:17] One of the things that was I'll say
shocking to me,
[1:34:21] was one of the attendees, um, is
somebody who rides his bike, I think
seemingly like everywhere.
[1:34:28] Okay.
[1:34:29] And I mean, it's his, it is his
primary form of transportation and
[1:34:32] he was absolutely invaluable in
helping us gauge what needs to be
[1:34:37] improved and changed and whatnot.
[1:34:40] Um, but it, you know, he was viewing
this as this is where I get from
[1:34:43] point A to point B, not
[1:34:45] people um or there's reasons to draw
me over here or go over there,
[1:34:52] right? So so you're looking at it,
you want to look at it from both both
an eastward and a westward
standpoint,
[1:34:59] not from a, well, if they're going
[1:35:01] come, are they going to come to our
parks?
[1:35:03] We hope that it's used in many ways.
[1:35:06] Well, that would be probably a big a
big one, right?
[1:35:09] They want they want to come to the
pool, come to the pier.
[1:35:11] They want to come to the pool, the
pier, the
[1:35:13] you know, how do we how are we going
to deal with that?
[1:35:16] Has that been is that will that be
part of the feasibility study?
[1:35:19] Well, I mean, I was just saying, I
want to make this clear.
[1:35:22] Our our parks and our access is not
changing at all.
[1:35:24] That's stay in resident only.
[1:35:26] Yeah, but that's not what it says
here.
[1:35:28] No, so we have we have some, they are
districts.
[1:35:30] And that kind of stuff.
[1:35:32] So, like for example, down Jefferson,
we are
[1:35:34] putting those little pocket parks in.
[1:35:36] Those are a little bit different.
[1:35:37] They can come to those, they can come
get ice cream.
[1:35:39] They can come to the social district.
[1:35:40] Sure. They can come to all of that.
[1:35:42] Bryce Park is open for non-residents,
[1:35:44] but all of our resident parks are
stay in resident park.
[1:35:47] There will be no changing of any of
that.
[1:35:51] Okay, so they come to
[1:35:54] I guess I don't want to get into it
too much, but
[1:35:56] they're going to come from another
city,
[1:35:58] they're going to come down to St.
Clair Shores.
[1:36:01] They can't visit Grobles.
[1:36:03] they can part of this here, right?
[1:36:04] They once I get to little Mac, now,
[1:36:07] what do I what do I do? Where do I
go?
[1:36:10] Am I going to the social district on?
[1:36:12] You could, absolutely.
[1:36:13] So I make a right to go to the
senior.
[1:36:16] You go to the senior center, you
could go to a hockey game.
[1:36:19] You could also just travel it,
[1:36:20] right? It could just be a place that
you would take a bike ride.
[1:36:23] You don't even need an actual
destination.
[1:36:26] You could end at Burger King.
[1:36:28] You could, um, go north.
[1:36:30] No, Culver's up to, yeah.
[1:36:32] You could go North or Culver's,
right?
[1:36:34] North up Little Mac if you wanted to.
[1:36:36] I just I just want to sort of get a
handle on
[1:36:38] you know, where's my destination?
Where do I go?
[1:36:42] Because I'm going to go for, right if
I'm coming from Van,
[1:36:45] if I'm coming from Van Dyke,
[1:36:47] I don't get to see the lake too much.
[1:36:49] So I'm coming to the park, right? I'm
going to go to the lake.
[1:36:51] Well, there's also many private
ventures,
[1:36:54] and that's also what we would be
encouraging, right?
[1:36:57] We would be encouraging people to go
to have lunch at Mike's
[1:36:58] on the water.
[1:37:00] We would be encouraging people to go
see, you know,
[1:37:02] Todd and Virginia.
[1:37:04] We would be encouraging fish bones.
[1:37:06] We would be, you know, that's
[1:37:08] just I mean, that's a major trip.
[1:37:10] technically speaking, Mike's should
be
[1:37:13] encouraging people to come to Mikes.
[1:37:15] They should be doing promotions and
advertising.
[1:37:18] But that that's another part of it.
[1:37:19] I'm just sort of was curious, where
do I end up from here?
[1:37:23] I'm going to end up on the playground
equipment.
[1:37:25] Do I go to parks? I I don't know.
[1:37:31] I I it's uh, it's a great idea, but I
[1:37:34] I don't know where they would go.
[1:37:37] And I don't know how many people
would use it.
[1:37:39] And I don't want it's just, this is
just my opinion.
[1:37:41] Listen, I was invited, I know I got a
invitation from you.
[1:37:45] I did not go to these study sessions.
[1:37:47] Okay. I always used to be doing
something but
[1:37:50] But that's on me. Okay.
[1:37:52] So I had my chance.
[1:37:56] But just I just want to say one more
thing here.
[1:37:58] I just non-motorized transportation.
[1:38:01] creating a connected Greenway between
communities,
[1:38:04] enhance streetscape character.
[1:38:07] and everyone really west of I 94 is
going to be the one
[1:38:10] that that benefits the most out of
that, right?
[1:38:14] because we have our little industrial
area
[1:38:16] from I 94 to Little Mac.
[1:38:19] and for opportunity for storm water
management and landscaping.
[1:38:24] Liz, thank you.
[1:38:26] I know you guys worked hard on it.
[1:38:28] I had my chance to say a lot.
[1:38:31] I know you was about three meetings
or so. I did not go.
[1:38:34] Okay, that's on me.
[1:38:36] Okay, I just had my reservations
that's all.
[1:38:39] Thank you. Sorry, thanks for Mayor
for letting me be long-winded.
[1:38:41] Thank you. Miss Rusey.
[1:38:43] Thanks. Um, councilman Detali,
broadening the concerns
[1:38:45] I had which this already is a
congested area is industrial.
[1:38:49] I don't want to see any narrowing ing
of the roads
[1:38:51] or anything that would.
[1:38:53] Road diet. Road, yeah, road diet.
[1:38:56] as I don't want to see anything like
that because, you know,
[1:38:58] we make sure that people can utilize
the road safely.
[1:39:01] That's the whole point.
[1:39:03] But when you are do have an
industrial area,
[1:39:05] that also have a big vehicle
sometimes.
[1:39:07] in and out.
[1:39:09] And um, one concern I did have
though,
[1:39:12] like, um, again, was stay a few
times,
[1:39:14] we have a very small segment of this.
[1:39:17] And um, so our segment is actually
just covering,
[1:39:19] I think it's segment 8.
[1:39:22] And it says, I'll read the second
paragraph
[1:39:24] that actually is relevant to St.
Clair Shores
[1:39:26] because most of this document
actually is.
[1:39:28] in which it's kind of funny to be up
here having to vote on this
[1:39:31] when we represent such a small
segment of this big study.
[1:39:35] I did fill out the survey by the way.
[1:39:38] I always think people can tell what
answers I write, but
[1:39:42] guys probably can. But um,
[1:39:44] the paragraph relevant to St. Clair
Shore states,
[1:39:47] as the Eastern terminus of the
corridor,
[1:39:49] the segment establishes destination
for Greenway users
[1:39:52] and creates opportunities for future
regional connections.
[1:39:56] The St. Clair Shores senior activity
center provides a
[1:39:59] logical location for
[1:40:01] trail head amenities while serving as
a gathering point for residents
[1:40:05] and visitors and helping to create a
memorable endpoint for the corridor.
[1:40:08] What does that mean? Because our
senior center's not only just primary
[1:40:13] purpose, the sole purpose is to
provide amenities and services for
[1:40:16] senior members who pay to belong to
that center.
[1:40:19] We already have a heard enough time
keeping non-senior members out of
[1:40:22] the parking lot that we just built
for them.
[1:40:25] Um, so [clears throat]
[1:40:26] I don't want to see the purpose of
the senior center diluted or
[1:40:30] compromised or to change its focus
[1:40:32] to start providing trail head
amenities for visitors and
[1:40:36] disserving as a gathering point for
people utilizing this who aren't
[1:40:41] there as senior center members.
[1:40:43] But what what's what does this
paragraph mean?
[1:40:46] It it doesn't have any detail to it.
[1:40:53] I um I would like to say that that
hasn't been fully studied and that
[1:40:57] would be something that is part of a
future design studies.
[1:41:00] Okay. You could say it's a logical
location,
[1:41:02] but we don't know what that means.
[1:41:04] We can say it's for a trail head
amenities, what would that be?
[1:41:07] What would a trail head amenity be?
[1:41:09] Typically, um, trail head amenities
are pretty non-invasive.
[1:41:13] Um, it really it can be just anything
from like ten reserved
[1:41:16] parking spaces to um, more or less
than that.
[1:41:19] It can be a bench, um, wayfinding
signage to say,
[1:41:22] hey, you're here and this is how you
get somewhere else.
[1:41:25] Um, a trash can, um, just really
small things like that.
[1:41:30] Um, just to kind of help people
traversing it, um,
[1:41:34] whether they use a car or not.
[1:41:37] Did we have any, I mean, I know you
talked about stakeholders like
Robol's,
[1:41:41] were the Matt at the senior center,
the Scott's Board, the...
[1:41:45] Um, were they surveyed about
utilizing this as a logical
[1:41:49] a logical location for trail head
amenities while serving as a
[1:41:52] gathering point for residents and
visitors helping to create a
memorable
[1:41:55] endpoint for the corridor?
[1:41:57] Uh, we had one of the meetings at the
senior.
[1:41:59] I thought it was at, but I'm I mean
they were, yeah, Matt was there.
Okay.
[1:42:04] Did they have any input on this?
[1:42:06] Do they know this was being
discussed? I know this was being
[1:42:09] discussed until I see it in the
thing.
[1:42:11] I felt like it was surveyed, but I
don't recall being surveyed about
[1:42:15] utilizing the senior activity center
as a memorable endpoint for a trail
[1:42:18] head amenities type thing.
[1:42:21] And, you know, this is this is a
study, right? We are not.
[1:42:26] Right. That's why I tried to because
there's not a lot of pages, but not
[1:42:30] a lot of actual detail in there.
[1:42:33] I know we're not authorizing any
money to any specific projects,
[1:42:37] but when am I when am I agreeing to
if I sign this resolution?
[1:42:43] You're you're agreeing to the
possible idea maybe at some point in
the future
[1:42:49] of maybe applying for a grant.
[1:42:52] That's a whole lot of qualifiers.
[1:42:54] It is a whole. And if the grant comes
up to before us,
[1:42:56] it's like, well, Councilman Russo,
you did vote for that
[1:42:59] resolution, so maybe kind of sort of
do it?
[1:43:01] And now you're saying no, and we
already spent all this time and money
[1:43:04] on this, getting to this point.
[1:43:06] Like, I was kind of sort of made,
okay.
[1:43:09] I just, you know how I feel about
these. I have talked about these
[1:43:13] type of consultant driven studies a
lot.
[1:43:16] Uh, I will belabor. I have concerns
with that.
[1:43:19] Thank you. Thank you.
[1:43:20] Mr. Karen, thank you.
[1:43:22] Yeah, actually, uh, Councilman
Robello brought up several of the
[1:43:27] challenges that we talked about in
the sacred. They didn't attend
[1:43:29] one of the stakeholder meetings.
[1:43:30] Um, that we actually had over in
Spinler Park.
[1:43:33] Um, back in April, I believe that
was, right?
[1:43:35] That phone. So, so I think that the
real challenge with the study
[1:43:38] going forward is the differences.
[1:43:43] I think in terms of our area, because
even the sidewalk that's
[1:43:46] going to go in front of the Civic
Arena parking lot, we're already
[1:43:49] Right? That's already part of this
parking lot project.
[1:43:52] So pretty much our infrastructure
side of it's gonna be done.
[1:43:55] It'll be greening, the sharrows, the
putting the bike lane and gears,
[1:44:00] which I think is a great idea for the
Half mile roads.
[1:44:03] In that, you know, we had Roseville
did some of them in Masonic and that
[1:44:07] to basically say that, you know,
those roads with less traffic are
[1:44:11] more ideal for cyclists than the
major mile roads.
[1:44:16] And I and to encourage that, I think
is a great idea.
[1:44:19] Um, but the real challenge is the
differences of you get our area that
[1:44:23] we've got the recreational area,
which is really the trail head
[1:44:27] because it's not just a senior
center.
[1:44:29] It was, you know, pickleball courts
are open to everybody, handball
[1:44:32] courts open to everybody. It's the
uh, playground, it's Civic Arena,
[1:44:36] you know, it's all our parks and rec
offices are all right there.
[1:44:39] So, it was really when we were
talking about that as a trail head.
[1:44:42] It was really the whole complex, just
not the senior center.
[1:44:45] Um, but then you do get into East
Point and basically the bulk of East
[1:44:48] Point, it's all residential.
[1:44:51] And that, so we got our industrial
going to their residential and
[1:44:54] where we talked about where a bit of
again, taking away their lanes.
[1:44:57] They weren't in favor of it.
[1:45:01] And that they they learn their lesson
went happened at Nine Mile, right?
[1:45:06] When they went through that debate,
there was no skinning of Stevens, you
know,
[1:45:11] to to move any parking, because
that's a residential parking all
along there.
[1:45:15] Um, and then you get to Warren where
it's backed to industrial
[1:45:18] and even a Centerline's industrial
[1:45:19] and then you get to that intersection
at Shainer and Grossback,
[1:45:23] there's no way across in that.
[1:45:25] even even tried to convince the M.
guy that was there. Hey, build us a
skyway.
[1:45:30] We'll only after you if you can get
M.Dot to build a skyway.
[1:45:33] The cross that because that's
literally only safe way you could do
it.
[1:45:36] It's got to be a very similar bridge
to what's over a Grossback at um
[1:45:40] that, um, Metro Parkway.
[1:45:42] Yeah. Yep.
[1:45:43] Um, you need that type of thing to
get over Grossback,
[1:45:46] especially when you got shaner going
right down the middle of it. So
[1:45:49] Um, I think there's still a lot of
challenges going ahead.
[1:45:52] So I guess for the other communities,
where are they at in approving the
study,
[1:45:56] the this next stage of the study.
[1:45:59] So, um, last week, uh, Warren and
Centerline approved their
resolutions,
[1:46:05] and the week prior, uh, East Point
received and filed theirs.
[1:46:09] So that we are the last one on the
line.
[1:46:13] They received and filed it.
[1:46:14] What does that mean?
[1:46:17] That was the that that was the
language that I I um.
[1:46:20] That's an approval.
[1:46:21] No, they received it.
[1:46:22] My understanding is that they did not
adopt a resolution
[1:46:27] that they received and filed the
study.
[1:46:29] and and I don't believe that they
adopted a resolution.
[1:46:35] Never mind, Bob. Bob's not paying
attention right now.
[1:46:38] Um I wasn't there.
[1:46:42] So, all right, so everyone else needs
going ahead of this next stage.
[1:46:47] So, um, so with that,
[1:46:49] what is the timeline for the final
study that can basically lead to
[1:46:53] grant dollars in the future.
[1:46:57] I think it is the next is finding a
grant opportunity.
[1:47:02] So it basically would be this study
that's presented to us tonight.
[1:47:06] to be approved or received and filed.
[1:47:10] by all four communities, so that way
you can then start solicit for
[1:47:13] grant opportunities at this point.
[1:47:16] So we basically would take this and
say, hey, we would want to build on
this
[1:47:20] and that would be a part of our grant
application.
[1:47:24] And so they would see that some leg
work has been done, this has been
thought
[1:47:28] about up to a point.
[1:47:31] And so usually these grants will give
you, um, sort of a
[1:47:36] milestone dollars, right?
[1:47:38] So it'll be next could be a more
defined plan,
[1:47:42] or it could be a conceptual plan,
[1:47:43] or it could be 60% construction
documents,
[1:47:46] or it could be public engagement
only.
[1:47:49] So it would be any number of those
steps.
[1:47:52] Um for a grant application.
[1:47:55] and then is it basically all four
communities are going to be involved
[1:47:59] which each application process then.
[1:48:01] It could be anything.
[1:48:02] It could be we do something on our
own if there's something that we
find.
[1:48:06] It could be all four communities
continue to try to work together.
[1:48:11] or any, you know, any of the four,
right?
[1:48:13] Um, maybe not all of them would be
able to or want to participate
[1:48:16] in something in the future.
[1:48:20] So equivalent to uh, we're required
to have a Parks and Rec
[1:48:23] master plan to apply for things.
[1:48:25] Right? And things that we apply for
need to be in our master plan.
[1:48:28] Yeah. Yes.
[1:48:29] Yes, I think that's probably a good
way to to to look at it is that
[1:48:33] this is a this is a nice foundation
for if you want to apply for
[1:48:36] something else that is um more
intense in nature.
[1:48:40] Okay. All right. Thank you.
[1:48:41] Mr. Vitaly.
[1:48:43] I was just going to say,
[1:48:45] um, you did mention when you're
speaking to Council Woman's Ru's's
question,
[1:48:50] um, about potentially parking spaces
being reserved at senior. I think
maybe
[1:48:55] may have fumbled over words cuz this
is a non-motorized
[1:48:59] mode of transportation, right?
[1:49:01] So we're not talking about parking
spaces.
[1:49:05] there are trail heads with parking
spaces.
[1:49:08] The idea is you might live a far
distance away, too far to bike or
walk
[1:49:13] to to from your house to the trail
head.
[1:49:18] So you drive to the trail head and
then you get on your bike or you take
your.
[1:49:23] So that's some that's how some trail
heads work.
[1:49:26] To be fair, I don't ever think we're
going to get to a point where we've
got
[1:49:29] so many bicycle tourers that we can't
get parking at the senior center but
[1:49:33] Okay, so maybe I I understand it a
little better.
[1:49:36] And there is another place in the I
guess the stakeholder comments where
[1:49:42] um I I believe is it State Rut
Kleinfell or State Senator Kleinfell?
[1:49:47] Okay, so State Senator Kleinfelt.
[1:49:49] did comment about a closed gas
station at the corner of Stevens and
Grash at
[1:49:54] potentially being a a trail head or a
trail head or a trail stop or
something like that, which
[1:49:57] I mean that
[1:50:01] makes sense because quite honestly,
the portion of this that needs
[1:50:04] the most work is basically from Van
Dyke to Grassi.
[1:50:06] Mmm.
[1:50:07] So I I think that's logical too, if
you want my input on it.
[1:50:10] I think that's a logical place for a
trail head,
[1:50:13] because really the residential
section of East Point
[1:50:17] there isn't much to see and I don't
know how excited.
[1:50:20] I mean our senior center's exciting,
but it's for St. Clair Shores
seniors.
[1:50:22] Mmm.
[1:50:23] So, but I will say this. I'm gonna
I'm gonna vote for this,
[1:50:27] and I'll tell you my reasoning behind
it is that
[1:50:30] I think that this has the potential
to greatly enhance
[1:50:33] the city of East Point, city of
Warren, city of Centerline.
[1:50:37] And I certainly don't want to get in
the way of that
[1:50:40] because good property values in those
communities
[1:50:43] translate to good property values in
St. Clair Shores.
[1:50:46] So I'm not going to get in the way of
this and I'm going to vote for it.
[1:50:48] But I I think you've kind of got a
handle on how we feel up here
tonight.
[1:50:53] Mr.
[1:50:54] Oh, I'm sorry. I was going to make a
motion to adopt.
[1:50:57] Okay, you can.
[1:50:58] Vitali.
[1:50:59] Mr. Vitale moves to approve.
[1:51:01] Support.
[1:51:02] Supported by Mr. Frederick. Mr.
Rabello with a question.
[1:51:05] Yeah, just uh two more quick
questions.
[1:51:07] Mmm.
[1:51:08] Uh, who uh Liz or Denise, who's the
point person on this?
[1:51:14] Who's the one that's would be our St.
Clair Shores, you know, rep?
[1:51:19] Either one of us is fine.
[1:51:21] I I'm um, doesn't matter.
[1:51:23] I I'm more than happy to take any
questions from people or ideas.
[1:51:27] Okay.
[1:51:28] See, this is sort of where I
[1:51:30] I think you guys do a great job.
[1:51:33] You know I think you do it.
[1:51:34] Do I think I do, do I think you guys
do
[1:51:36] too much and need some help?
[1:51:39] I've told all I've told you both that
several different times.
[1:51:44] As far as the maintenance of our
portion,
[1:51:49] as far as the security of our, I mean
how what change, what is the deal?
[1:51:55] Those are all ideas that would need
to be discussed and fleshed out
[1:52:00] if the next step were to ever be
taken.
[1:52:03] Because those are big issues, right?
Maintenance and security and
lighting,
[1:52:08] all of that, very important concepts.
[1:52:12] So five vote yes for this right now.
[1:52:14] I get a second chance when it comes
back and if I don't like
[1:52:17] what I see, I vote no.
[1:52:20] Correct.
[1:52:21] I can do that.
[1:52:22] Okay.
[1:52:23] Thank you.
[1:52:25] Mayor.
[1:52:25] Moved by Mr. Vitelli, supported by
Mr. Frederick to approve the
[1:52:29] resolution adopting the Stephen's
Greenway Feasibility study.
[1:52:31] All in favor?
[1:52:31] Aye.
[1:52:33] All opposed?
[1:52:34] No.
[1:52:35] 6 to 1 it passes.
[1:52:36] Thank you.
[1:52:38] Thank you, council.
[1:52:39] Thank you.
[1:52:42] Item five has been removed. There's
some additional questions, so that
[1:52:45] has been removed, which is the
approval of the sale of 21606
Pleasant.
[1:52:49] Item six is the request for approval
to erect a small cell in City right
[1:52:54] away at 32215 Jefferson.
[1:52:58] Miss Bike, CDI Director.
[1:53:00] Mr. Mayor and council, excuse me.
[1:53:02] [clears throat]
[1:53:03] Thank you for accommodating my
apparently no voice
[1:53:07] and short-term disability.
[1:53:12] Um the Michigan small cell statute
adopted in 2018
[1:53:16] provides for the placement of small
cell wireless poles in the public
[1:53:21] right of way.
[1:53:24] We have learned that these small
cells, which have a limited range
[1:53:28] compared to the macro cell towers,
Blossom Heath, cell tower,
[1:53:34] are desired for high traffic
locations such as next to schools,
[1:53:38] parks, and other gathering places.
One of the things that we learned was
[1:53:43] next to schools is ideal because
there are parents waiting on their
[1:53:47] cell phones.
[1:53:49] And so the small cells are something
that, you know, most wireless
[1:53:56] companies want to be placing in
communities.
[1:53:59] According to our Telecommunications
Council, the combination of the
[1:54:05] statute and an FCC order makes
challenging the location of these
[1:54:09] poles very difficult.
[1:54:12] The city is essentially limited to
making sure the poles are not
[1:54:17] taller than 40 feet,
[1:54:20] plus an antenna height of 6 feet,
[1:54:23] and that the facilities located on
them are not larger than
[1:54:27] 25 cubic feet, which is approximately
the size of a refrigerator.
[1:54:34] So when they sell small cell, when
they say small cell, it's a misnomer,
[1:54:39] they're not actually very small.
[1:54:43] Um
[1:54:45] In practice, the city can typically
guide the provider to what the city
[1:54:50] continues to be a more ideal location
than what was proposed, but the
[1:54:54] statute limits proposed alternatives
to 75 feet within the originally
[1:54:58] requested location.
[1:55:01] I'll give you one example that we had
[1:55:04] Um, on in front of the elementary
school,
[1:55:09] um, Princeton Elementary School?
[1:55:13] I think that's the one on Statler.
Councilman Vitali is familiar with
it.
[1:55:18] We had a request to put a small cell
there in the middle of the
[1:55:22] sidewalk where all the kids gather.
[1:55:26] We were successful and when I say we,
this was a combined effort as
[1:55:31] many of them are in the department
between Liz and myself,
[1:55:35] in, um, encouraging them to move
closer to another side street.
[1:55:42] What's also important is that these
can't be located on DTE transmission,
[1:55:47] the poles that have the transmission
lines.
[1:55:50] So it isn't possible to co-locate on
those utility poles.
[1:55:55] You may remember in the past, we've
had a lot on DTE poles that were
[1:56:00] small wireless. This is an entirely
new pole.
[1:56:05] So since January we've received nine
requests from a company that
[1:56:10] supports Verizon for small cells.
[1:56:15] Including the one that we're asking
for approval tonight at 32215
[1:56:19] Jefferson, with this is at near
Jefferson and Masonic.
[1:56:24] This site is the first to obtain all
internal approvals, so it does go
[1:56:28] through the regular permitting
process, engineering,
[1:56:33] building, water, sewer, everyone has
to look at it and approve it.
[1:56:38] Before we would bring it to council.
[1:56:42] Um, so the pole is proposed along the
northern side of Tony J's,
[1:56:46] between the restaurant and the gas
station,
[1:56:50] and would not be very visible from
either Jefferson or from Veterans
Memorial.
[1:56:55] So we're asking for approval.
[1:57:00] Questions?
[1:57:01] Mr. Rusey.
[1:57:02] Thank you. So basically state and
federal law really ties your hands
[1:57:05] on on this issue.
[1:57:06] Unfortunately, it does.
[1:57:08] I know you mentioned the possibility
of co-location, is it possible for
[1:57:12] this particular one correct because
of the nature of the DTE polls
nearby?
[1:57:16] It is not possible.
[1:57:18] Okay, but we, we did look at that and
we, that would obviously be more
[1:57:21] desirable than a new pole.
[1:57:24] Yes.
[1:57:25] I know it won't help with this one,
but maybe one of our state reps
[1:57:28] could take this up.
[1:57:30] Uh, there, um, some years ago, back,
I think it was in 21 or 22, uh, there
[1:57:36] was a bill, it ended up dying in
committee, but there was a bill
introduced that
[1:57:39] would require companies to
[1:57:42] have to show to a municipality why
co-location was unfeasible before
[1:57:45] a new poll could be erected.
[1:57:48] It died in committee, but that might
be a good requirement.
[1:57:50] It won't help with this, but it might
help with other circumstances where
[1:57:53] they don't want to put up a new pole,
where they don't want to co-locate,
[1:57:56] they rather just put up a new pole,
but they would just show like in this
[1:57:59] circumstance it's not feasible.
[1:58:01] It won't help here, but it might help
other communities because I know
[1:58:04] these can be a little bit
controversial because people are kind
of tired of
[1:58:07] all the polls.
[1:58:09] So maybe look that bill up, I think
it was from 21, 22. It was, I think,
[1:58:13] Yurk, Y-A-R-U-C-H, if I remember
correctly.
[1:58:17] Yeah, it died in committee, but I
think that might be one that a lot of
municipalities
[1:58:20] will get behind to help in other
types of circumstances, especially as
these
[1:58:23] type of requests are coming in more
and more.
[1:58:27] Just given how much it amends the
Michigan Small Cell Act, so it's not
[1:58:30] a new bill, it's an amendment of the
existing app.
[1:58:34] That really helped tie your hands a
lot with this.
[1:58:36] But I know small cell is trying to
prioritize the co-location, so that
[1:58:40] would further, maybe even further,
the intent of the act.
[1:58:44] But, okay, that was my question about
was my question about was co-location
considered, it wasn't,
[1:58:47] unfortunately, and that's not
possible here.
[1:58:50] Correct.
[1:58:51] Okay, thank you.
[1:58:53] Mr. Frederick.
[1:58:54] Uh, thanks, Mayor.
[1:58:56] Denise, uh, according to the, uh, the
map that we've got in here.
[1:59:00] This pole is right next to Tony J's
in that very narrow area between
[1:59:04] the sidewalk and curb.
[1:59:07] Correct.
[1:59:08] Uh, and it's, and it seems like it's
very close to his new restaurant, the
East.
[1:59:13] It is adjacent to, yes.
[1:59:15] Um, I guess I'm not happy with how
far east it is. I would rather move
[1:59:20] it farther west if we have to do this
or even across the street.
[1:59:24] There is an alleyway behind the gas
station where there's nothing there.
[1:59:28] And probably no one would see it, and
it seems to me it would be a
[1:59:31] better spot.
[1:59:32] I don't know what kind of leeway, you
said we have 75 feet, is that
[1:59:35] in any direction?
[1:59:37] Uh, I believe it is in any direction.
I would have to to defer to
[1:59:41] telecommunications council.
[1:59:43] All right, can we find that out for
sure?
[1:59:45] Absolutely. I you know, and, and has
uh, Steve been contacted over
[1:59:49] there at Tony J's? Steve has not been
contacted, no.
[1:59:52] I mean, I mean, we're going to put
it, we're going to put a, a giant
[1:59:55] utility pole with a refrigerator on
top.
[1:59:58] And I think we should let him know
that.
[2:00:01] Okay. All right, if we can.
[2:00:02] Certainly.
[2:00:03] you know, just
[2:00:04] For clarity, we're not putting it
there.
[2:00:06] I know. I know, but we're we would we
would be approving it based on the
[2:00:13] on the state and the feds. My other
question is, does any of this fall
[2:00:17] under the Metro Act?
[2:00:20] It is not under the Metro Act, it's a
separate act. But we do get, you
know,
[2:00:27] permit fees and those, you know,
there we get compensated like a
permit, but we
[2:00:33] don't have ongoing, um, you know, per
linear foot or any of those costs,
[2:00:36] which the Metro Act would allow us.
All right, maybe maybe if our state
[2:00:42] rep could remember that part of it
where we're we don't Because we get
we
[2:00:46] get paid based on pole attachments
and so, you know, so many it's not
very
[2:00:49] much, but it's something, right? And
uh, it just worries me that,
[2:00:55] you know, if we're going to have
eight of these around the city and
then we're
[2:01:00] just saying, oh yeah, sure, come in
because the state said we had to let
[2:01:03] you come in and within 75 feet of
wherever it is you think you need
this.
[2:01:05] Okay. So, uh, Okay.
[2:01:07] That's all I've got.
[2:01:09] Mr. Vitale.
[2:01:11] Um, I think Councilman Frederick must
have been using a small cell to
[2:01:17] Bluetooth into my head because he
basically said what I was going to
say,
[2:01:21] and that is, why don't we put this
across the street on the back side of
[2:01:26] a gas station? We're I don't know who
cares.
[2:01:29] Is there any easement on that
property behind between the
residential area and
[2:01:34] the gas station? He said alleys. I
don't know if we have an easement
there.
[2:01:37] Our city planner just informed me
that that's private property.
[2:01:41] All that complete lot.
[2:01:43] A complete lot.
[2:01:45] Okay. Um, well there still has
there's no sidewalk, it doesn't
appear
[2:01:51] on that north side of Edgewater.
[2:01:55] So we don't have any easement? I
mean, we've got a curb there, so
gotta have some easement there.
[2:02:05] It is unusual that it doesn't have a
sidewalk.
[2:02:08] We have about 10 feet there.
[2:02:12] So, um, between the sidewalk and the
property line.
[2:02:16] Uh, or excuse me, the back of curb
and the property line.
[2:02:18] Well, even 10 feet seems better than
putting this on, you know, what maybe
that's five feet.
[2:02:25] Yeah, that we've got for an easement
on the south side of Edgewood.
[2:02:30] It's the same. So between the back of
curb and the sidewalk,
[2:02:34] um, on the Tony J side is about 10 to
12 feet.
[2:02:39] Well, I would rather put this and and
maybe you can instruct me on how I
[2:02:44] should be voting because I would much
rather put this on the backside of a
[2:02:48] gas station than next to a potential
future restaurant site or something
like
[2:02:52] that. So I I would say I would let
everyone speak and then I would go
for the motion to table.
[2:02:57] Table.
[2:02:58] Okay. Yeah, that's what I was
thinking cuz I don't want to vote for
this until we sit down and say no and
if we have
[2:03:04] that authority to do it. Before we do
table, there's no else pencil, so
we're...
[2:03:09] Okay. You good, Mr. Vitale? Yes, I'm
good.
[2:03:11] Mr. Bellow.
[2:03:13] May I didn't know if I'm going to
just say a couple things and I'm not
sure
[2:03:16] if anybody else is going to say
anything so,
[2:03:19] Um, I I am with uh, Chris Vitali. Uh,
I took a look. This thing is uh,
[2:03:27] or around rather. This thing is right
on top of the guy.
[2:03:31] Okay, and heaven sakes, we have
enough going out right now, okay?
[2:03:36] And
[2:03:40] I have some issues with where that's
placed.
[2:03:43] Yeah, a couple quick questions.
[2:03:45] Is that that's over 500 feet from the
school?
[2:03:50] Um, I don't know the distance from
the school.
[2:03:54] Because isn't there rules for these
things?
[2:03:56] Not not for a distance from a school,
no.
[2:03:59] No? No. Okay.
[2:04:02] We have ones proposed for much
closer.
[2:04:04] So I I you know, just look into that,
okay?
[2:04:07] Sure. Absolutely.
[2:04:08] Uh, there's a lot going on down there
and uh, I just don't think it's the
best spot for it and
[2:04:18] um, I would make a motion.
[2:04:23] Mr. Mr. Vitelli, just wait. There's
Miss Burgess has her pencil up. So
[2:04:26] if you could just let everyone speak
and then I'll I'll I'll take I'll
take a motion to table.
[2:04:30] I think we're all on the same page.
Just let everyone speak so that we
can get that out.
[2:04:33] Sure. Are you good? Yep.
[2:04:36] Ms. Burgess.
[2:04:37] Um, well, if we're going to table it,
I don't know if uh all this, but I'm
[2:04:41] going to say, uh, we received nine
requests since January and this is
the first one coming to us this year.
[2:04:47] Um, are the other eight proposal for
similar commercial locations or any
proposal near residential?
[2:04:53] There is a combination of both.
[2:04:55] Commercial and residential
applications.
[2:04:58] Okay, so, I know that, uh, the state
law significantly limits our ability
to deny these.
[2:05:03] but what discretion does the city
[2:05:06] have to exact placement,
[2:05:08] um particularly with a
[2:05:10] proposed location,
[2:05:12] like one that we're kind of
disagreeing about right now,
[2:05:14] Um but one that could affect a
residential neighborhood,
[2:05:17] a park or any other sensitive
locations?
[2:05:21] We we have limited abilities,
[2:05:23] they do have to comply with other
ordinances,
[2:05:26] they do, for example, we we have
[2:05:29] two proposed um that fall within the
corner clearance,
[2:05:33] which we have denied.
[2:05:36] Um so they must propose a
[2:05:38] different location for that.
[2:05:41] If it it is impacted or it impacts
water, sewer,
[2:05:45] anything like that, any
[2:05:48] underground infrastructure,
[2:05:50] we have the the ability to deny it.
[2:05:53] Um, if it is just because we don't
want it,
[2:06:01] Um, then we don't have the ability.
[2:06:04] not a good enough excuse.
[2:06:05] Yes. Although we we'd like to try and
sometimes.
[2:06:10] So, um, who is uh responsible
[2:06:12] for maintaining the poll,
[2:06:14] the equipment, repairing damage to
any of the right of way
[2:06:17] or removing equipment if it's
abandoned.
[2:06:20] Um, it would be incumbent upon the
wireless provider to do that.
[2:06:24] So they are required to do
restoration if necessary.
[2:06:28] I think we've heard about the quality
of that in the past.
[2:06:33] Um, but they would be, it would be a
stipulation that if it's
[2:06:35] abandoned, they have to remove it.
[2:06:38] Okay. Thank you very much.
[2:06:39] Mr. Karen.
[2:06:41] Thank you.
[2:06:42] Denise, so probably as part of the
follow-up on this one,
[2:06:47] we'll be meeting with our
telecommunications attorney
[2:06:50] to basically in order to give them to
agree to move it across
[2:06:53] the street basically.
[2:06:55] But in that conversation, could
[2:06:57] you bring up with them of what type
of notification
[2:07:00] we can give to a property owner
[2:07:02] that's going to have this in front or
adjacent their property
[2:07:06] and to get it from him. So the
[2:07:09] property owners understand what their
rights on this as well.
[2:07:11] You know, our hands are tied by state
and federal law.
[2:07:14] You know, they're allowed to do this
within a certain area,
[2:07:17] but imagine there's got to be some
right the property owner has
[2:07:21] and we ought to have something from
them that we can give the
[2:07:24] property owner, especially as well as
before it's being
[2:07:26] considered, make sure the property
owners are given notice.
[2:07:29] Okay. You know, again.
[2:07:30] You would think the
telecommunications company would be
required to do that
[2:07:33] just like we're required to do it
[2:07:36] when we're rezoning property,
[2:07:37] doing site plans. The law doesn't
require me to do that,
[2:07:39] but it's a good thing to do to
Councilman Frederick's point.
[2:07:42] Absolutely. Thank you.
[2:07:44] Anything last, Mr. Frederick?
[2:07:46] And uh I I agree with what John was
saying on that and uh
[2:07:51] you know, like the what is it? 500
foot,
[2:07:53] you mail it out and make them pay,
right?
[2:07:56] Because we can collect fees for what
notifications.
[2:08:00] Uh the other question I had is on the
uh what Miss Burgess said about,
[2:08:04] you know, removing the equipment.
[2:08:06] Can is there a chance that we can get
a bond so that it's
[2:08:09] we hold it, if they don't come and
take it down, we
[2:08:12] cash the bond and take it down?
[2:08:16] Um, we do get a bond for the building
permit.
[2:08:20] Um, I can certainly talk.
[2:08:22] A thousand dollars is the largest
bond we can put out.
[2:08:23] Right. Right.
[2:08:25] I can talk with uh counsel about
[2:08:27] a bond that we would hold.
[2:08:30] I mean, there's there's bonds for
these kinds of things all over
[2:08:31] the country, right?
[2:08:33] So let's not let that slip by and
just in case we can.
[2:08:38] All right. Okay. Thank you.
[2:08:40] Do you need a motion to? I'll
entertain a motion, Mr. Frederick.
[2:08:42] I'll move to table. Support.
[2:08:44] moved by Mr. Frederick, supported by
Miss Rusey to table.
[2:08:47] All in favor? Aye. Aye.
[2:08:49] All opposed, seven and nothing.
[2:08:49] Thank you. Thank you, Council.
[2:08:51] You have the direction, right?
[2:08:53] All right. Thank you.
[2:08:55] [coughing]
[2:08:56] Item seven is carry over requests for
fiscal year 27, Mr. Light.
[2:09:00] Yes. So um unfortunately, um Mr. John
Walters, our finance director
[2:09:04] was unable to be here tonight, uh so
that's why I would carry, I would
[2:09:07] take care of the carryovers.
[2:09:09] Um, as Council is well aware, we do
our carryovers each year, um,
[2:09:12] before we kind of get started on
everything.
[2:09:15] A lot of these carryovers are street,
uh, sewer infrastructure
[2:09:18] projects that start in the early
spring, continue on throughout
[2:09:21] our fiscal year which ends June 30th.
[2:09:24] So a lot of these we're going to see
on here, you're going to say,
[2:09:26] isn't that road already done or isn't
this project already done?
[2:09:29] It is, it was just still working on
and uh, incompletion
[2:09:32] in July.
[2:09:35] So this is a lot of the projects that
started in July.
[2:09:37] Um, if you look at our general fund,
this is actually relatively small.
[2:09:40] Um, you see the federal grant that we
had budget for for our police
[2:09:45] fee uh vessel, we have not received
that money yet.
[2:09:48] That is obviously coming in the
general fund and then transferring
out.
[2:09:51] So it's a quick in and out process.
[2:09:53] Um, we also have the federal grants
for our kite lighting that we did
[2:09:57] at uh Kite Park for our municipal
lightings that is 81,435
[2:09:59] that we've not received through the
DNR through our closeout.
[2:10:04] that is just the final billing that
we will be receiving.
[2:10:08] And then the final project or the
final item that is on there
[2:10:13] is once again another kind of in and
out.
[2:10:17] Uh, it is our state grant for the
passport grant that we received
[2:10:20] for our ADA bathrooms at our Civic
Center.
[2:10:21] That was a $150,000 grant.
[2:10:24] And then obviously, the offset for
our expenses that we have
[2:10:26] budgeted for the 200,000.
[2:10:28] Um, I know that is in the
professionals and that will be
[2:10:31] going out to bid here relatively
soon.
[2:10:34] But all the paperwork and everything
is in through,
[2:10:38] um, the rec passport grant and that
will be progressing,
[2:10:42] but once again that is transferring
over.
[2:10:43] So, that is the general fund,
[2:10:45] um, and then we wanted to, do you
have any questions over
[2:10:49] the general fund or do you want me
just to kind of continue on through
[2:10:51] each one and then ask questions.
[2:10:53] Yeah. Make it through them.
[2:10:54] So then the uh major street find
expenditures, as you can kind of see,
[2:10:59] uh the large one that is in here is
our bridge uh design inspections.
[2:11:03] Once again, this is the construct
over the Milk River.
[2:11:07] Uh our local streets, the big one
here was the Playview reconstruction.
[2:11:10] Um, and then you also have the other
large one here is the Bry's Park
[2:11:14] Walking Path that the bid came back a
little bit high. We are re-bidding
[2:11:18] that project out and seeing where
that price comes in, but we are
[2:11:21] carrying over that money that was
budgeted.
[2:11:24] Uh, the local street mileage, um,
that is the alley pavement.
[2:11:28] Those alleys are progressing. This is
a small portion, as you guys are well
[2:11:32] aware. We budget at 600,000. This is
the $53,000 closeout.
[2:11:36] Uh, Shady Lane, same thing. Uh,
that's a big one in there.
[2:11:39] Uh, DLEF, these were for the uh, new
lockers and file storage
[2:11:44] that are actually in the facility
now. Once again, like I said, a lot
of these
[2:11:48] are already uh, have been purchased.
They just didn't hit for the fiscal
year.
[2:11:53] Um, for the library, you got the
federal grants, uh, the library
[2:11:57] renovations, and then you have the
library renovations that are very
[2:12:01] near completed. I'm very happy to
press
[2:12:03] that our open house for the library
building would be October 3rd. So
then
[2:12:07] we'll be open to the public.
[2:12:09] Um, we have our golf course
expenditures. This was for the
[2:12:13] golf cart path rehab. Uh, there is a
little portion that they are still
[2:12:17] uh, kind of working with uh, Best and
AEW.
[2:12:21] And then you have our sewer, uh,
separation project.
[2:12:25] Uh, you have this is the Alexander,
uh, separation project.
[2:12:29] And then that part right there, the
separation is completed.
[2:12:33] The pipe is in, they will be working
on the road, uh, at
[2:12:36] the end of this month.
[2:12:38] Um, you have some sanitary sewer
lining projects and then under
[2:12:42] the water fund,
[2:12:43] you have uh, some concrete patching,
a little bit of closeout there.
[2:12:47] Uh, the water meter replacement that
we're continually working on.
[2:12:50] The water reservoir generator
install.
[2:12:53] Uh, the Alexander water main project,
and then 12 mile,
[2:12:56] uh, water main project.
[2:12:58] So, uh, these are all just to carry,
oh, I'm sorry, one more page.
[2:13:03] Um, we have storm water funds, uh,
same thing, a little bit of
[2:13:07] concrete patching that we're left.
The Alger pump station generator
[2:13:11] install. Uh, a little bit of sewer
grouting.
[2:13:13] And then under the motor pool, these
are some of the vehicles
[2:13:17] that we've purchased. Um,
unfortunately, it takes ambulance
[2:13:20] now quite a little bit to receive.
[2:13:21] Uh, same thing with the 2020, sorry,
2025 light rescue truck.
[2:13:27] Uh, the place vessel that's gone back
to the boat that we
[2:13:30] received. Um, and then the DLEFs that
we just purchased, um, recently.
[2:13:37] And then we also have the BSNA
upgrades as council just approved,
[2:13:41] and then we have a few computer
upgrades that we're still finishing
[2:13:44] up at, and those were mostly done at
the police building that still
[2:13:48] haven't been transferred over yet.
[2:13:49] Mr. Keren?
[2:14:50] Um, yeah, first, great job in terms
of the general fund
[2:15:03] looking at how we can rebid it to
[2:15:05] hopefully get more people. Which
[2:15:07] one was that project.
[2:15:08] This is for both of them.
[2:15:09] They were bit together as as a
package.
[2:15:11] Okay.
[2:15:13] Interesting.
[2:15:14] Hmm.
[2:15:15] So what's the uh timeline in terms of
reconsidering those designs and
[2:15:22] Once we have the approval of the
carryover then we're going to move
[2:15:25] forward with, you know, our next
steps.
[2:15:27] Okay.
[2:15:28] So where are the steps to kind of get
to kind of get to where we're going
to have something
[2:15:31] that people would be interested in
because
[2:15:34] I think it's kind of shocking that
we're any bids.
[2:15:38] for large projects like that and
especially for like insol and
generator.
[2:15:43] Yeah, we're we're meeting with
Fishback there, the engineers that
are helping
[2:15:46] us uh put this together.
[2:15:48] Okay. All right. Thank you.
[2:15:51] Ms. Rusey.
[2:15:52] Thank you.
[2:15:53] Um, just a couple minor things.
[2:15:55] Um, you might want to check with uh
John.
[2:15:56] I assume this is just a function of
rounding, but I'm not sure.
[2:16:00] There's a, I did the, I went through
and I double-checked the math.
[2:16:03] There's a dollar discrepancy in the
sewer-funded expenditures.
[2:16:06] It trended 255 and 72 uh 54.
[2:16:10] And again, could it just be a
function of rounding? I don't know.
[2:16:13] We're dealing with whole numbers
here.
[2:16:14] And uh also storm water funds, the
expenditures are also,
[2:16:17] there's another dollar that's been uh
discrepancy.
[2:16:21] It should end at 847, 7848,
[2:16:24] which then brings the actual.
[2:16:26] And the funny thing is the
[2:16:27] expenditures is actually a dollar off
too for the total amount to 806
[2:16:30] for the total to be 045.
[2:16:34] So again, just little dollar
discrepancies.
[2:16:36] My assumption is it's a function of
rounding, but
[2:16:38] It is.
[2:16:39] Um, okay.
[2:16:40] Pretty good.
[2:16:41] Thank you.
[2:16:42] just minor, but
[2:16:44] I always look at the last digits and
I see if they made sense
[2:16:45] with what the total is.
[2:16:47] And when it's 294 and it adds up to
15, the last number
[2:16:50] doesn't end in a five, ends with a
four, it's like, okay,
[2:16:52] something's off here.
[2:16:55] So, I always eyeball them.
[2:16:57] Okay. Thank you.
[2:16:59] Mr. Vitali.
[2:17:00] Um, I'm only going to mention this
not in relation to budget
[2:17:02] amendment, but
[2:17:04] since Aldeline uh pump station was
brought up,
[2:17:07] I'm going to ask, is that building
going to receive
[2:17:11] any type of update or anything?
[2:17:14] I'm told the roof there holds holding
water.
[2:17:17] There are some trees that are like
really too close to the building,
[2:17:19] undermining it.
[2:17:20] It really needs, it's looks pretty
shabby.
[2:17:24] There are some building improvements
that we included with the project.
[2:17:27] Okay, good.
[2:17:28] Could I could I see those?
[2:17:29] Could I get sent copy of that?
[2:17:31] Sure. All right, thank you.
[2:17:33] We'll need a motion to approve.
[2:17:34] Move to approve.
[2:17:36] report.
[2:17:37] Moved by Mr. Frederick, supported by
Mr. Karen to approve the fiscal
[2:17:39] year 2026-27 carryover request as
presented.
[2:17:42] All in favor?
[2:17:43] I.
[2:17:44] All opposed.
[2:17:45] 7 to zero. Thank you.
[2:17:48] Fritz contract purchase order request
to approve the sanitary
[2:17:51] sewer root control project, Mr.
Babcock DPW director.
[2:17:56] So we have an annual maintenance
program on our sanitary
[2:17:58] sewer system where we go throughout
the city
[2:18:00] and we clean and then televise our
sanitary sewers,
[2:18:03] and there are some sections of sewers
[2:18:05] that have extensive tree roots in
them. So this is part of our
[2:18:08] maintenance program.
[2:18:14] Um, and we are requesting approval to
move forward with this
[2:18:16] uh sanitary sewer root treatment
project.
[2:18:22] Anyone out to bid, right?
[2:18:25] Last year, we went out to bid. This
is proposing the
[2:18:27] HGAC buy program that we use the unit
prices because when we went out
[2:18:30] to bid,
[2:18:33] Um, the bidder, we received one bid,
and the bidder's unit prices were
[2:18:36] higher than through this program.
[2:18:39] So we're requesting to use the lower
unit prices through this project.
[2:18:42] Which is the cooperative bid program.
[2:18:43] Yes.
[2:18:44] Questions?
[2:18:45] Ms. Rusey.
[2:18:46] Thank you.
[2:18:47] Um, issue with the purchase order.
[2:18:50] where it says check if applicable, he
put other contract to where a
[2:18:53] blanket purchase order approved at
the this council meeting.
[2:18:56] It should have the chart mark at
other entity bid if we're doing a
[2:18:58] co-op and we're getting the pricing
through co-op,
[2:19:01] which it doesn't say the HGAC co-op
pricing is
[2:19:03] what we're utilizing.
[2:19:06] So the purchase order needs to be
updated to properly reflect that.
[2:19:10] And also just, I guess, a procedural
question given
[2:19:12] the recommended motion is to approve
the blanket purchase order.
[2:19:16] But in the blanket purchase order, it
says contract award a blanket
[2:19:18] purchase order approved.
[2:19:20] So should the motion also state where
we're in a contract?
[2:19:23] Yes.
[2:19:24] Okay, it doesn't right now.
[2:19:26] So whoever makes the motion, it's
not, and if they read it, it's not
[2:19:27] just a blanket purchase or
[2:19:29] we're approving on contract in
addition to the blanket PO.
[2:19:34] Okay. Thank you.
[2:19:35] Mr. Vitali.
[2:19:36] I'm just going to comment kind of on
the same thing I asked about the
[2:19:39] pump station.
[2:19:41] I'm still waiting to see some of
those photos of tree roots in the
[2:19:44] sewer system because honestly,
[2:19:46] I'd like to bring that up during
council comments, so residents can
[2:19:48] see what we're doing
[2:19:52] And I feel like I last time I asked,
I wore snow boots in here so
[2:19:57] We uh, we have been meeting and
discussing that, that's in the works.
[2:20:01] to have a presentation put together
for you.
[2:20:04] Okay.
[2:20:06] you know, if you can't do a
presentation
[2:20:07] tional. I'll take a picture.
[2:20:09] Yeah, it'll be a report.
[2:20:11] Okay.
[2:20:14] Miss Burgess.
[2:20:16] Um, I, same kind of lines that uh,
[2:20:18] Mr. Vitelli had mentioned um.
[2:20:21] How do we track the areas that
[2:20:24] receive root treatments to determine
[2:20:26] how effective and how long it lasts?
[2:20:27] And how how long does it usually
last?
[2:20:31] They it it's needs to be retreated
[2:20:35] every like three to five years.
[2:20:36] So we do keep a running list of the
locations we've been to.
[2:20:39] And you know, within that three to
five years,
[2:20:41] we try to return and retreat them
again.
[2:20:43] And we've used cameras to go back and
confirm, you know, that the
[2:20:46] treatment is working.
[2:20:48] So we have pictures.
[2:20:49] Yes.
[2:20:51] What was only?
[2:20:53] Mr. Rabello.
[2:20:54] Brian, how many uh bids did you get
[2:20:57] on this?
[2:20:58] Did you say one?
[2:20:59] Just the one last year.
[2:20:59] Okay.
[2:21:01] Now, this next question would be for
Matt.
[2:21:04] Matt.
[2:21:05] I've probably mentioned, I don't
know,
[2:21:08] I guess could be for the the city
manager to,
[2:21:11] I probably mentioned three or four
times up here.
[2:21:14] that to check out new ways
[2:21:16] to get bids,
[2:21:17] Okay.
[2:21:18] Did you check out the alternative
way?
[2:21:25] to get new bids?
[2:21:27] What's that?
[2:21:27] They didn't bid this out this year.
[2:21:29] They didn't try. They wanted it just
to go with co-op.
[2:21:31] I was going to be
[2:21:32] Okay, but you know what, thank you,
but it really
[2:21:34] doesn't matter, because the
[2:21:35] next time around
[2:21:38] Is there, are we doing anything
[2:21:40] to get the different bids
[2:21:41] from the the government agencies?
[2:21:43] Like on a total national
[2:21:45] spectrum.
[2:21:46] Yeah, so if you can see
[2:21:49] I'm bringing this up again because I
never did get an answer.
[2:21:51] That's all.
[2:21:52] So, uh, Council, as you can see,
[2:21:53] obviously, during COVID,
[2:21:54] it was hard and we were try like
[2:21:56] everything that was out there,
[2:21:57] there were so many jobs that were out
there.
[2:21:59] A lot of these are construction
companies and they were just
[2:22:02] overworked at that time because of
the ARPA funds and everything.
[2:22:05] At when we go out to bid recently,
[2:22:08] you kind of start to see even with
our road projects,
[2:22:10] we're getting 12, 14, 15 bids
[2:22:12] for a lot of these projects
[2:22:14] because this all the municipalities
[2:22:15] used that same bid network
[2:22:18] that is out there,
[2:22:19] and that's what they all use now.
[2:22:21] This what you're asking for here,
[2:22:22] This is a little bit unique.
[2:22:23] This is sanitary sewer clean and
televising. There's not
[2:22:27] too many companies that actually
[2:22:28] have the finite work that's
[2:22:30] required to be able to go in
[2:22:32] and do this work.
[2:22:33] If you remember last year we used the
HGAC program
[2:22:38] and we got our prices back from that.
[2:22:41] Council then decided, let's not use
that purchase program that
[2:22:44] we purchased through. Let's go out to
bid.
[2:22:46] We then went out to bid and we only
got the one provider
[2:22:49] which is Dukes. They've actually
[2:22:51] bought up a lot of these smaller
companies that did it
[2:22:52] and they hire them, they still
[2:22:54] work now underneath Dukes.
[2:22:56] Um, and Duke thing came back with a
higher price than what
[2:22:59] was the HGAC price.
[2:23:01] Okay.
[2:23:02] So we reached out to Dukes and we
said, why are our prices
[2:23:04] higher than what this? When they
[2:23:06] bid for some of these large big
consorciums, they have to
[2:23:09] promise that is going to be the
lowest bid that they will give
[2:23:11] out through any of their bid
programs.
[2:23:13] So if people aren't paying into that
to get the better discount,
[2:23:18] then they cannot give you based on a
bid.
[2:23:20] However, we did reach out to
[2:23:22] Dukes and we said, hey, last year,
[2:23:24] um, we are a paying member.
[2:23:26] Can we get the low HGAC price?
[2:23:29] They held the price last year.
[2:23:31] So this year, rather than going
through the uh,
[2:23:34] bid process again, knowing
[2:23:35] what the results are going to be,
[2:23:37] We are utilizing the HGAC.
[2:23:40] This is a little bit unique,
[2:23:41] uh, and there's also other big
consortiums that we used to.
[2:23:44] These do get bid out through the
consortium. It's a large,
[2:23:47] a lot of municipalities pay into
these consortiums.
[2:23:50] So it goes out nationwide
[2:23:52] and then you can piggyback off to get
the lowest national price.
[2:23:56] And this is a national firm,
[2:23:58] like I said, there's very unique
[2:24:00] kind of company that goes through and
does sewer inspections.
[2:24:03] I guess my point of even saying
something that these
[2:24:07] bids and stuff, Brian might have
something coming up.
[2:24:09] It could be somebody else,
[2:24:11] could be Parks and Rec.
[2:24:13] And I just, when I asked the
questions,
[2:24:15] Now, that's great. I got an answer.
[2:24:17] But it's a lot easier and smoother if
someone just
[2:24:20] lets me know, like an email
[2:24:22] going forward that this isn't
[2:24:25] a, this isn't a feasible thing.
[2:24:28] Because just a question.
[2:24:30] And sometimes you win on them.
[2:24:33] So, thank you for the answer up here.
[2:24:35] Thank you.
[2:24:35] You're welcome.
[2:24:36] So, a motion to be in order?
[2:24:38] Moved to approve.
[2:24:39] Support.
[2:24:40] So you're approving them the amount
with a contract to right.
[2:24:43] Yep.
[2:24:45] The addition by Mr. Karen supported
by Mr. Federick.
[2:24:47] All in favor?
[2:24:48] Aye.
[2:24:49] All opposed.
[2:24:50] 7-0. Thank you, Mr. Fedock.
[2:24:54] A D's request to approve a contract
modification for the
[2:24:57] 11-mile patching project.
[2:24:59] Denise.
[2:25:00] Kyle from AW.
[2:25:03] Yes.
[2:25:04] Thank you, Mayor.
[2:25:05] Uh, Kyle at AW.
[2:25:07] Uh, April 7th of this year we pool
[2:25:10] publicly bid out the 11 mile patching
project
[2:25:12] between Jefferson and Little Mac.
[2:25:15] Uh, that was awarded to Florence.
[2:25:18] There was seven bidders for that
project on April 28th.
[2:25:21] With contingencies the price awarded
was just under $500,000.
[2:25:26] The city budgeted in fiscal year 27 a
million dollars for this project.
[2:25:30] But the budget was approved on April
27th, I believe.
[2:25:34] where you had your public hearing.
[2:25:36] So, the design 11 mile was initiated
in spring.
[2:25:39] with the objective of completing
construction before Lake View schools
[2:25:43] got back into session on August 31st.
[2:25:46] Florence did finish the project
[2:25:48] on August 29th, a couple days before
school started.
[2:25:54] And when we went out there to look at
it really close before the bid,
[2:25:58] we found quite a bit more
deteriorated concrete.
[2:26:01] We also found that every single
structure was shot.
[2:26:04] I put some pictures in of the
structures.
[2:26:07] We had to replace 35 structures in
this whole project.
[2:26:10] This is between both phases.
[2:26:13] So the phase in I don't have the
exact breakout in phase one and two.
[2:26:17] Uh, but due to the ongoing
construction on Jefferson,
[2:26:20] as you know the Jefferson relief is
being constructed there,
[2:26:22] part of the detour of Jefferson
actually runs down 11 mile.
[2:26:26] It runs from Jefferson to Harper on
the westbound lane
[2:26:30] and then just west of Harper to the
turnaround
[2:26:33] and then heads east to Harper
southbound.
[2:26:37] We with discussion with the city,
[2:26:40] we asked the city through the city
manager to defer that work
[2:26:44] to fiscal year 28 so we didn't impact
the detour route.
[2:26:47] And patching programs in a Boulevard
street, you need to occupy one
[2:26:51] with your construction, one lane with
your construction equipment.
[2:26:54] And there's times where you actually
have to remove the concrete
[2:26:57] from the drive lanes, which causes
long delays.
[2:27:00] So if we would have had that,
[2:27:02] we would have been putting a detour
route into another construction zone
[2:27:05] for people could be waiting up to 15
minutes for a concrete truck
[2:27:08] to pour its concrete.
[2:27:10] or to remove or to remove the
concrete.
[2:27:16] Um, like I said, we added quite a few
catch basins after the bid.
[2:27:19] Uh, the project cost, which was
approved by council, was
[2:27:23] just under $500,000 with
contingencies.
[2:27:26] Based on the additional concrete
work, catch basins,
[2:27:30] the project is $120,000 over the
initial bid with contingencies.
[2:27:37] This project was budgeted for a
million dollars.
[2:27:40] The the total for this fiscal year 27
work would be $620,000.
[2:27:46] And we're asking that the additional
work, which is about
[2:27:49] 420, slightly over the million
dollars total,
[2:27:52] be deferred to fiscal year 28
[2:27:54] once Jefferson is completed in August
of sorry,
[2:27:57] August of calendar year 2027,
[2:28:02] so that the rest of the project can
be done.
[2:28:05] Uh, we put a recommendation, we're
asking for, we're asking a council
[2:28:09] approve $100,000 for a fiscal year
27.
[2:28:12] project budget.
[2:28:13] And we're looking for uh looking for
direction on whether we rebid this.
[2:28:20] Uh, phase two in fiscal year 28,
[2:28:22] or we can come back in spring with a
change order from the contractor.
[2:28:26] We did talk to Florence, who's the
contractor, and based on diesel
[2:28:29] prices, he was unable to give a
guarantee that he could hold
[2:28:32] his prices for next August.
[2:28:35] So if we were to if we were to
entertain any contract change order
[2:28:40] with with Florence for that work,
[2:28:43] I'd recommend that we come back in
spring with any prices at that time
[2:28:46] or we could bid it at that time also.
[2:28:48] Mr. Land,
[2:28:49] Yep, I would uh recommend uh council,
um, after what they uh
[2:28:53] AW Kaio had said, um, that we do
rebid this project for the second
part.
[2:28:58] Um, as Kaio had mentioned, there was
a lot of additional work.
[2:29:02] This will be after the Jefferson
project.
[2:29:04] uh, which will incur,
[2:29:06] we want to make sure that project is
completely done.
[2:29:08] That road is open back up before we
shut that down.
[2:29:12] We will also have to work with kind
of the school is not necessarily
[2:29:16] directly impacted, but still we want
to make sure we do this
[2:29:19] when school isn't impacted.
[2:29:22] Um, but also, um, you know, I I think
uh
[2:29:28] as of right now, um I feel that going
out to bid would be the
[2:29:31] the better scenario.
[2:29:35] Mr. Karen?
[2:29:36] Thank you.
[2:29:38] So, the additional 120,000, which is
the bare minimum
[2:29:41] you're requesting tonight,
[2:29:43] that's for work that's already been
done.
[2:29:45] That is correct.
[2:29:46] Right?
[2:29:46] Because of all the additional catch
basins that it get repaired.
[2:29:50] Yes, and the concrete, as
unfortunately this was a street
[2:29:52] kind of sectioning program and as
[2:29:54] we were tearing away some of the
concrete, it just kept crumbling
[2:29:57] with us. Yeah.
[2:29:58] Okay.
[2:29:59] So, were the catch basins inspected
when this was first put together?
[2:30:06] They weren't prior to the bid and the
reason is is because
[2:30:10] the timing of the project and getting
it out for bid.
[2:30:13] Uh, we're working with council's
approved budget,
[2:30:17] right? That this was a planned
project.
[2:30:19] We we started we started the work at
AWW on March 11th
[2:30:23] and we got this out to bid on August
7th.
[2:30:27] April, sorry, April 7th
[2:30:29] and then we recommended the award
shortly thereafter.
[2:30:32] Anytime we're doing any road project,
checking the catch
[2:30:35] basins is normal, isn't it?
[2:30:37] It is. It is.
[2:30:38] But time was of the essence to get
this out to bid.
[2:30:41] So we had to estimate that,
[2:30:43] and we actually went back through the
design.
[2:30:44] That's okay. I'm good.
[2:30:45] Okay, I'm good.
[2:30:47] So, all right. So then, yeah, so
okay, so we have to approve
[2:30:50] 120,000 for work that's already been
done.
[2:30:53] Okay.
[2:30:54] Um, but yeah, I would agree
[2:30:55] the balance of the project to rescope
it, rebid it,
[2:30:58] inspect everything.
[2:31:01] Um, we got plenty of time to do that.
[2:31:03] Yes. And that way, because we'll be
done with the other
[2:31:06] work on Jefferson going north,
[2:31:09] and we'll be done the southern end by
August. So,
[2:31:13] Okay. Thank you.
[2:31:14] Miss Rusey.
[2:31:15] Thank you.
[2:31:16] Actually, John, um, asked the
question I was going to ask of
[2:31:18] how, how was this missed? I mean,
this seems like a very
[2:31:21] significant miss.
[2:31:22] I know sometimes you start doing
construction, more work
[2:31:25] reveals itself, and that's completely
understandable.
[2:31:27] but this seems like they were very
significant issues
[2:31:29] that were missed that add up to this
amount of money.
[2:31:33] Yeah. Um, they weren't missed.
[2:31:35] Like I said,
[2:31:36] They just weren't looked for.
[2:31:37] They weren't they weren't looked at
prior to the bid because we
[2:31:40] needed to get the bid out. We looked
at it immediately after the bid.
[2:31:42] I would rather have not done this at
this time than have to
[2:31:45] it and then be in this position of
doing it,
[2:31:47] you know, discovering these things
that or at least be
[2:31:49] made aware of,
[2:31:52] hey, when we um were discussing
putting this project out to bid,
[2:31:55] yeah, we only have all the the the
stuff looked at.
[2:31:58] So it could be more and having that
kind of heads up.
[2:32:01] I think we assume every time a
project comes to us that the
[2:32:04] engineering is done.
[2:32:07] And the design is done and the
[2:32:09] project is going to be what it says.
[2:32:12] Like I said, we all understand
sometimes surprises, but these
[2:32:14] seem to be very predictable
surprises.
[2:32:16] Which means they're not surprises at
all.
[2:32:18] But we weren't just not made aware of
this.
[2:32:21] That there were end cuts or there
were cuts taken in the
[2:32:24] process to speed things along.
[2:32:26] And I'm not a fan of that.
[2:32:28] And now we're in a situation where
I'll vote for this
[2:32:30] because the work has been done, we
have to pay the people who did the
work.
[2:32:33] But it's in a very bad position
because we look, I I don't like
[2:32:36] how this was handled.
[2:32:39] How many more it says,
[2:32:41] uh, revealed deterioration more catch
basins along that stretch
[2:32:44] that originally were identified.
[2:32:46] How many were originally identified
if the looking at
[2:32:48] wasn't done, how were they
identified, and then how many
[2:32:51] more catch basins were discovered as
the construction went along?
[2:32:56] So how many did we start with?
[2:32:57] How do we know?
[2:32:58] And then how many did we end up with?
[2:33:00] For the for the bid, we estimated
seven of the
[2:33:02] structures and we ended up with 35.
[2:33:05] Oh wow, that's way off.
[2:33:06] So that's what's the basis that
estimate? That estimate was
[2:33:09] way off.
[2:33:10] I can say 10 and it's actually 12 and
it's like, okay,
[2:33:12] that was a pretty good estimate.
[2:33:15] But this estimate is 35.
[2:33:17] a dartboard, basically.
[2:33:18] I mean, I might not even vote for
this, but maybe.
[2:33:21] I mean, that's a that's a bad answer,
I'm sorry.
[2:33:23] So I can't answer, you know,
certainly the questions.
[2:33:25] But as counselor does remember, this
winter was extremely
[2:33:28] challenging on a lot of our roads.
[2:33:30] And, uh, this, you know, obviously
this road right in front of the
school, this came
[2:33:35] in front of council and we're like,
hey, how can we get this project done
because of the
[2:33:39] timeliness of the school and how
dilapidated 11 mile had become
especially between Little Mack and
Harper.
[2:33:44] and it was it was definitely starting
to crumble similar to what we just
did
[2:33:48] from Jefferson north of 11 mile.
[2:33:54] So, uh, we went to our engineering
company and we just said, hey, we
want to get this
[2:33:58] project going, we have to get it out
to bed, we have to get
[2:34:01] the project started so we can be done
before school.
[2:34:05] Because the last thing we want to do
is not allow the buses to be able to
get through and
[2:34:08] have this construction while school
was going on.
[2:34:12] So, I think at that time, I can't
speak what happened with
[2:34:14] the engineering firm, um, outside of
the fact of,
[2:34:19] here's what your roads normally are,
we're going to do an
[2:34:21] estimate because we want to get this
bid out so we can have the road done.
[2:34:25] On the fortunate side, the road did
get done before school
[2:34:27] started as we mentioned just two days
before.
[2:34:30] But the estimate of 7 to 35 was way
off. Now the
[2:34:33] infrastructure was dilapidated.
[2:34:37] Um, and I can't answer for our
engineering firm when it comes to
that, but I will say
[2:34:40] we did put them under the gun to be
able to come up with a project and a
job, to be able
[2:34:45] to bid it out, to be able to have it
done before school and to take a bad
road
[2:34:49] and to get it fixed as soon as
possible.
[2:34:53] We're in a really awful position here
because of that
[2:34:55] and we weren't aware that was going
to happen until the meeting tonight.
[2:34:59] Yeah. And now I will say as well,
[2:35:00] And, you know, I think it's super
cool, we got this done super fast,
that's awesome,
[2:35:03] right, but when you didn't, you left
out, we're going to put
[2:35:06] you under the gun then in September.
[2:35:10] and make you I it's just was not
handled very well and I'm very
[2:35:13] disappointed in this
[2:35:14] especially when I had to ask how many
catch base discrepancy there
[2:35:17] was. 7 to 3.
[2:35:20] I'm glad I asked that question
because here I was thinking it was
two.
[2:35:25] Yeah. That's a lot. That's a lot.
[2:35:27] That is a lot.
[2:35:28] And the engineer, engineering,
whatever engineering was done,
[2:35:32] was done in the spring so it was
after the crappy winter.
[2:35:35] So we all knew, I mean, we sure
assumed the road deteriorate to
[2:35:38] that that we probably, if we were
just assumed, we probably should
[2:35:41] have assumed more than
[2:35:43] seven if that's how much we typically
have because the
[2:35:46] conditions in the winter were so
severe on the road that we had to
[2:35:49] escalate this project.
[2:35:50] So we probably should have estimated
a little bit better given the
conditions of the road
[2:35:54] even if we weren't doing the full
analysis that we usually would do
[2:35:58] if we actually were doing an
analysis, right?
[2:36:02] It's just very frustrating.
[2:36:03] Again, I know the work's been done.
[2:36:04] I feel like I have to approve this,
[2:36:07] but I'm not approving on the process.
[2:36:09] Not at all. I'm approving that we
have workers out there, they did the
[2:36:12] projects.
[2:36:13] But this is I never want to be in a
situation again.
[2:36:16] Okay.
[2:36:18] Sure.
[2:36:19] Uh, Kyle,
[2:36:20] so the these these catch basins, uh,
you estimated seven, right?
[2:36:25] They were already rebid.
[2:36:26] They were already part of the
contract. So
[2:36:28] bit, we had a unit price for all
these crafts.
[2:36:30] So we had so just so we we all
understand.
[2:36:32] I mean, yes, it's more, but you're
using the contract price that they
they bid.
[2:36:39] That's correct.
[2:36:39] Okay, okay. I just I'm totally aware
[2:36:42] I know you are.
[2:36:43] I just want to make sure everybody
else understands that.
[2:36:45] this the seven were part of the bid.
Yes, we've added on to it, but it
[2:36:48] was part of the whole bid. We used
the unit price to do from 7 to 35.
[2:36:53] So that that's I think important that
we make sure we we do that.
[2:36:56] And I think we have to make sure we
understand. We we had to have it
[2:36:59] done with in front of Lake View.
[2:37:01] the road was breaking apart as it
[2:37:03] is on 11 mile as it was on Jefferson.
[2:37:06] And I think we we know that.
[2:37:07] But it's a different issue
[2:37:09] it's when Lake View High School is
sitting right there and we we have
got to get that done.
[2:37:15] Yes, Mr.
[2:37:16] I I'm not saying I know you're not.
[2:37:19] I'm not saying that you are.
[2:37:20] I know, but you're emphasizing Lake
View High School. I'm just
[2:37:22] emphasizing the process should have
been improved.
[2:37:24] It should not have been brought to us
until the process was actually
[2:37:27] done or we should at least been aware
of that.
[2:37:30] And of course, it's unit pricing.
That's what the contract is.
[2:37:33] I know, I just want to make it clear.
[2:37:35] But it's 7 versus 35. That's a lot
different. That's why we had the vote
tonight.
[2:37:38] Sure.
[2:37:39] Mr. Rebello.
[2:37:40] I'm not I'm not going to pile on the
I have the same type of
[2:37:44] sentiment.
[2:37:46] I just want to move forward from
here.
[2:37:48] I mean, all of us sort of like, yes,
yes, hurry before school
[2:37:50] starts. Hurry before school starts.
[2:37:53] I think that was the number one
thing. But
[2:37:55] if it can't be done the correct way,
[2:37:58] just let us know the next time going
forward so we can sort of
[2:38:01] make a decision based on on that
information.
[2:38:07] Because yeah, we're hitting with uh
one foot out of the batter's box.
[2:38:11] As they say.
[2:38:12] Now, but these folks did the work.
[2:38:14] So, I'll be voting yes for it.
[2:38:17] But let us know in advance. If she if
it's going to if it's going to
[2:38:19] go sideways. Okay.
[2:38:23] We will deal.
[2:38:24] Mr. Vitali.
[2:38:26] Do you know how many total catch
basins there are?
[2:38:30] I believe there's 35.
[2:38:30] Every single one of them were chat.
[2:38:33] Everyone.
[2:38:35] Okay. 100% is I mean, it's hard to
put 100% of them in the bed.
[2:38:39] I mean, on one hand I can I can say
that, you know, maybe we should have
we should have
[2:38:43] went out and and guessed all of them
would be bad,
[2:38:47] but then of course, the bid would
have been a million dollars more than
[2:38:50] what we were told.
[2:38:53] Um, but I guess if the motion is to
pay the bill that we owe
[2:38:58] and then put it back out in 28 to fix
the rest of them.
[2:39:04] Um, correct.
[2:39:05] That that is essentially the motion.
[2:39:06] Yes.
[2:39:07] Well, there's no motion yet, but
[2:39:09] that the recommendation So I would
[2:39:11] I would make a motion for the
recommendation from staff to
[2:39:16] pay the 120,000 and then include
additional funding in the fiscal year
28 budget
[2:39:22] to complete the work on Westbound 11
Mile.
[2:39:25] and rebid and rebid.
[2:39:27] Move by Mr.
[2:39:28] Cali, supported by Mr. Fed.
[2:39:30] All in favor?
[2:39:31] Aye.
[2:39:33] All.
[2:39:34] Okay, all opposed?
[2:39:37] I said I.
[2:39:38] I know that I there was a moment I
couldn't hear it all down here.
[2:39:40] somebody down here at the table.
[2:39:42] Okay.
[2:39:43] we're just I'm just trying to quite
out loud.
[2:39:46] I know I know I know it's funny.
[2:39:48] But I I'm trying to record it all.
[2:39:49] So apparently 7 to zero.
[2:39:51] Okay, thank you.
[2:39:55] Item 8C is a request to approve the
Great Lakes Water Authority
[2:39:58] contract amendment 5.
[2:40:00] Mr. Babcock.
[2:40:03] Yes.
[2:40:04] So we uh we currently have a 30-year
contract with the Great
[2:40:07] Lakes Water Authority um to purchase
drinking water.
[2:40:11] through uh 2038.
[2:40:12] And currently every four years
[2:40:14] we have the opportunity to uh relook
at that contract and the figures
[2:40:18] within it.
[2:40:19] Um, based on how we're currently
operating our distribution system,
[2:40:23] how much water demand there is in the
city,
[2:40:25] um and we can make an amendment to
that contract.
[2:40:27] So, um, this is a request to approve
contract amendment number five.
[2:40:33] Um, Mr. Lenton and myself met with
the Grelex Water Authority and
[2:40:36] um, reviewed all these figures.
[2:40:41] Mr. Karen, thank you.
[2:40:43] So basically, in terms of like the
two key numbers on here,
[2:40:46] uh, the maximum per day, millions of
gallons per day,
[2:40:49] and peak hour million gallons per
day.
[2:40:51] Those get used to calculate our max
flow rate, which drives
[2:40:54] what Lee will end up charging us,
correct?
[2:40:57] Yes.
[2:40:57] In terms of our proportion of all
their costs.
[2:41:00] And that's what feeds our water
rates.
[2:41:01] Okay.
[2:41:02] So basically, since the numbers are
going down,
[2:41:06] we're still going to pay more because
the rates will still keep
[2:41:09] going up, but it'll be less of an
increase.
[2:41:12] Since the max flow rate should go
down. Yep.
[2:41:14] Next time we calculate. Go.
[2:41:17] Ms. Burgess?
[2:41:19] Um, do we anticipate this uh
amendment having any effect,
[2:41:23] positive or negative
[2:41:25] on what our St. Clair Shores
residents will be ultimately
[2:41:29] paying for water?
[2:41:31] Well, it's been a positive year after
year ever since we started
[2:41:36] operating the storage tank at 10 Mile
and Harper.
[2:41:37] Um, that saves our residents, you
know, over a million dollars a year
[2:41:42] by running that reservoir.
[2:41:43] We filled it in the evening
[2:41:45] and we pump the water from it during
the day.
[2:41:48] Um, and that saves us from buying
water that's more costly during
[2:41:53] the day to be pumped to us.
[2:41:54] Um, and we use the water that we put
into the storage tank at night.
[2:41:57] So, yeah, it saves over a million
dollars a year for our residents
[2:42:00] by using that.
[2:42:01] Thank you.
[2:42:02] I wanted the audience to hear that.
[2:42:04] Mr. Telli.
[2:42:05] Um, yeah, I'm going to vote for this
[2:42:07] because this basically is, you know,
updating our infrastructure
[2:42:11] records with GLWA and and that all
makes sense.
[2:42:18] However, I will say that I had a
presentation prepared that I was
[2:42:22] going to do during audience
participation and it'd be great
[2:42:27] to have some people from the state
who could see that.
[2:42:30] That our monopoly water supplier is
advertising and spending
[2:42:35] $200,000 on a rebranding campaign for
something that only
[2:42:38] municipalities can buy anyways, which
we're locked into a
[2:42:42] 30-year contract for.
[2:42:46] And they're printing up frisbees and
making YouTube videos
[2:42:50] and it's absolutely ridiculous.
[2:42:52] But because I knew we'd have a lot of
people here for flock tonight,
[2:42:56] I'm not going to go through that all.
[2:42:57] But I do hope I have as many people
watching that and
[2:43:01] some of those people may be in state
government,
[2:43:03] because I'm going to say that this
whole GLWA thing is
[2:43:06] is just failure upon failure.
[2:43:11] They they can't sell enough water to
make their fixed costs,
[2:43:17] so they raise the rates.
[2:43:19] So people conserve water so they
don't sell enough water to
[2:43:20] make their fixed cost.
[2:43:21] It's just I this has got to stop
somewhere.
[2:43:25] So,
[2:43:26] um, so that's my sentiment.
[2:43:30] Mr. Ruse.
[2:43:31] Thank you. Uh John made the point to
address table two already with
[2:43:35] the maximum flow rates, so I'll go to
table three.
[2:43:36] What's the import of the flow rate
assumption changes in uh table
[2:43:40] three on the two to be?
[2:43:42] I compared them to the 2022 um
amendment that we approved and
[2:43:47] they do um address the assumed flow
rates differently between the meters.
[2:43:52] So, what's the the driving force
behind the change?
[2:43:57] Well, we look at basically we have
various feeds throughout the city
[2:44:02] and um this is showing what the split
is of where the water's
[2:44:05] coming from.
[2:44:08] Okay, um and it's changing.
[2:44:11] Yeah.
[2:44:12] Okay.
[2:44:12] That was my question.
[2:44:14] Why?
[2:44:17] Uh, right now the majority of our
water is coming from our
[2:44:20] north connection.
[2:44:22] Um, and the pressures on the south
end,
[2:44:25] um, the water's flowing better from
the north right now, the
[2:44:30] pressures coming from the south end
are not high enough to to push
[2:44:34] into the city currently, but that's,
you know, something we're working
[2:44:37] on with Great Lakes Water Authority.
[2:44:39] Okay, um just to compare SS02 right
now
[2:44:42] in this new amendment's 80 to 100% in
the 2022 when it was 0 to 70.
[2:44:48] Three is now 0 to 5, before it was 45
to 100%, that's when it
[2:44:52] jumped out to me.
[2:44:54] Uh, four is 0 to 10%, 2022 was 0 to
6, so that's not a huge change.
[2:44:59] And for 05, uh now it's 0 to 5% and
2022 it was 0 to 30%.
[2:45:05] So that's another change.
[2:45:06] So I'm just wondering what was
driving the change.
[2:45:09] Okay.
[2:45:11] Thank you.
[2:45:12] Mr. Rebello.
[2:45:13] Yeah.
[2:45:14] It seems we try to beat the water
company's all the time.
[2:45:18] We just can't hit the upper haget.
Thanks.
[2:45:20] And Chris, I think I saw your
Facebook post there.
[2:45:22] There was, was that you? It was
entertaining.
[2:45:24] I have more. I have more now.
[2:45:26] I thought it was entertaining. I I I
read it.
[2:45:28] And it it is, it's it's it's quite
amazing that
[2:45:33] sometimes you think, okay, I'm going
to use less water
[2:45:36] and I'm going to have a lower water
bill, but
[2:45:39] it just catches up with itself
because now
[2:45:43] you're using less water and so now
they have to raise
[2:45:47] the rates to make up for the fixed
cost of the structure,
[2:45:51] the infrastructure and the and the
costs that they're incurring.
[2:45:55] And it really is uh frustrating
because
[2:45:59] we all I think feel the same way
about what goes on.
[2:46:03] And we just can't beat them. There's
no way around it.
[2:46:08] So.
[2:46:10] No fault of yours, Mr. Babcock.
[2:46:14] We need a motion to move forward.
[2:46:17] Move to approve.
[2:46:18] Support.
[2:46:19] Moved by Mr. Karen, supported by Miss
Burgess to approve Amendment
[2:46:22] 5 to the water service contract
between Great Lakes Water Authority
[2:46:25] and the City of St. Claire Shores.
[2:46:26] All in favor?
[2:46:27] Aye.
[2:46:28] All opposed?
[2:46:29] 7-0 passes. Thank you.
[2:46:30] Thank you.
[2:46:33] Item nine, consent agenda.
[2:46:35] Move to approve.
[2:46:36] Support.
[2:46:37] Moved by Mr. Karen, supported by Mr.
Frederick to approve the
[2:46:40] consent agenda.
[2:46:41] All in favor?
[2:46:42] Aye.
[2:46:43] All opposed?
[2:46:44] Thank you, 7-0.
[2:46:46] Item 10 is updates and follow-up.
[2:46:50] Mr. Light.
[2:46:51] Yes, I'll start with the council
request first.
[2:46:53] Uh, Miss Rucy requested how many in
car police radios have been
[2:46:57] replaced to date as part of the radio
replacement program.
[2:47:01] In 2022, there were 16, 2023, 10, and
then 2025, three.
[2:47:06] Uh, Miss Rucy requested that a date
be scheduled for the
[2:47:09] subcommittee to review the Roseville
code enforcement contract.
[2:47:13] Uh, Denise is setting up a meeting
with the subcommittee to review and
[2:47:15] I believe that has been
[2:47:17] Friday 9th and 23rd.
[2:47:18] September 25th, I'm sorry.
[2:47:19] Friday morning.
[2:47:21] Yes.
[2:47:22] Uh, Miss Rucy and Mr. Vitali
requested an update on the
[2:47:24] sidewalk program including the
current progress, areas completed,
[2:47:29] and areas remaining to be reviewed
and marked throughout the district.
[2:47:33] Uh, a summary of that program status
was sent via email and is
[2:47:36] also attached to this email thread.
[2:47:39] Mr. Rucy?
[2:47:41] Can we get another update on that as
of September 14th, it says the
[2:47:45] program is estimated at 55% complete.
[2:47:47] It's now September 21st. I'd like to
know where they are a week later.
[2:47:50] Yes, I will.
[2:47:51] 56%.
[2:47:52] This is um,
[2:47:54] And I know they have a litany of
excuses in here, but it's uh
[2:47:58] very sad that it's not even O'Mart
yet where you don't even know what
[2:48:02] the scope of the work is going to be
[2:48:03] in terms of how many squares will end
up being replaced.
[2:48:06] Um, yes, so
[2:48:08] No, I was just going to say to tag on
to that, we've kind of reached a
[2:48:11] point in time now where
[2:48:13] I don't think we probably want to
break out any more concrete because
[2:48:16] I'm worried that we do replacements,
it's going to get
[2:48:19] full of leaves.
[2:48:20] That's how late in the year we're
getting on this.
[2:48:22] Yep.
[2:48:23] So, keep that in mind.
[2:48:24] Okay, I'll have a meeting and I'll
get back with both of you.
[2:48:26] Thank you and the visuals.
[2:48:28] Uh, Mr. Frederick raised concerns
about cuts in the pavement causing
[2:48:31] issues.
[2:48:32] He indicated that he would provide
the exact data. Uh, the address was
[2:48:35] provided by Councilman Frederick and
it is also on the list for
[2:48:38] replacement.
[2:48:39] Thank you.
[2:48:40] Uh, Mr. Vitali requested an update on
the Kudova site plan.
[2:48:44] Uh, Kudova has corrected their
violations. Uh, oh sorry.
[2:48:49] And then sorry, Kudova has corrected
their violations.
[2:48:51] The only items are we are actively
monitoring right now is the health
[2:48:55] of the boxwood shrubs.
[2:48:57] Uh, but those plant materials die
then they would work with the owner
[2:49:00] to make sure that they are replaced.
[2:49:03] And then I will move on to 10A.
[2:49:06] Um, so 10A is the responses from all
of the audience.
[2:49:10] As many of you guys may have been
here last week, and some were,
[2:49:14] some weren't.
[2:49:15] Uh, we had a lot of individuals come
up and speak on behalf of
[2:49:18] flop cameras.
[2:49:19] Um, that information as we all always
do is provided in the agenda.
[2:49:23] Knowing that, we also wanted to
provide, so I think there is a
[2:49:27] stack and I know some of you guys
have grabbed some,
[2:49:29] but there is a stack of what was in
the agenda. So everybody can
[2:49:32] actually get a copy.
[2:49:33] If you want to read over it, have
that information.
[2:49:36] It is also available though on the
website as well.
[2:49:39] So if people want to just go ahead
and view it on the website, so
[2:49:43] there is other areas.
[2:49:44] If uh, they happen to be all gone,
because obviously we have a large
[2:49:48] crowd here again,
[2:49:49] uh, let us know, we will make sure we
get some more printed out.
[2:49:51] Uh, but like I said, I want to let
everybody know it is on our website
[2:49:54] underneath medium minutes.
[2:49:56] As well that's over there as well is
uh we did try to get together
[2:49:59] and try to do a little bit of a
presentation.
[2:50:02] Our police chief is here, that is in
here as well.
[2:50:05] Um, and then
[2:50:08] um, so I think I said all the
answers. So rather than me read
[2:50:11] them word for word, uh, like I said
there was a lot of
[2:50:13] of individuals who came up and speak.
[2:50:15] Thank you all for coming back again,
[2:50:17] and then I'm just going to go ahead
and turn it over
[2:50:19] to our police chief for a little
presentation.
[2:50:21] Thank you. Uh, good evening, Mayor
and Council.
[2:50:23] Um, so we put together a short uh
PowerPoint presentation.
[2:50:29] Um, I'll just kind of make some
comments on each page.
[2:50:32] Um,
[2:50:34] So what are the cameras? They take
images of vehicles,
[2:50:37] models and plates. They're still
photos.
[2:50:40] Um, they help officers generate
potential leads to crimes.
[2:50:44] Uh, after a crime occurs,
[2:50:46] um, it assists us by, um, so say
there's a break-in at a store.
[2:50:51] The store surveillance video uh
captures and I just picked
[2:50:55] a red pickup truck with a cap.
[2:50:57] Uh, was in the parking lot at the
time of the break-in.
[2:51:01] Uh, the break-in occurs, it gets
reported.
[2:51:03] The next day, the investigator gets
the case assigned,
[2:51:06] and then they go back in time on the
camera system
[2:51:09] to see five or 10 minutes or so
before that crime occurred.
[2:51:14] Uh, so it was at 10 and Little Mac,
uh, this was a
[2:51:16] real case that just happened
recently.
[2:51:19] Uh, was was a like vehicle seen
coming through into
[2:51:22] St. Clair Shores past the camera.
[2:51:26] Uh, if it did, it takes a picture of
that vehicle
[2:51:29] with the matching description.
[2:51:31] There's a plate now that's visible.
[2:51:32] Now we have the license plate number,
[2:51:34] detectives can do their, uh,
investigative, uh, techniques
[2:51:37] to then develop a suspect potentially
from that information.
[2:51:42] Um,
[2:51:45] A community alert
[2:51:47] is when uh a wanted or missing person
or stolen
[2:51:50] vehicle drives past that camera.
[2:51:54] This information is entered by law
enforcement agencies
[2:51:56] into the National Crime Information
Center.
[2:51:59] That's a nationwide system that we
use to track stolen
[2:52:02] stolen, uh, vehicles and wanted
people and missing people.
[2:52:06] It passes the camera, an alert goes
out to the officers
[2:52:08] and to dispatch, and says, hey, this
camera just or this
[2:52:11] vehicle just drove past your camera
at this location
[2:52:14] into your city.
[2:52:16] Officers can then, um, actively
search for that vehicle.
[2:52:21] It is not facial recognition.
[2:52:23] The cameras face inward into the
city, so they're kind of
[2:52:26] like a perimeter around the city.
[2:52:28] When a vehicle drives into the city,
it catches the rear
[2:52:30] of the vehicle as the vehicle drives
away from the camera.
[2:52:33] It's not looking for faces or people.
[2:52:36] It just takes a a snapshot.
[2:52:39] And these are not for, uh,
surveillance of residents,
[2:52:42] it's not for traffic enforcement, it
doesn't detect speeding,
[2:52:45] it doesn't check plate expirations.
[2:52:50] Um, the Michigan Department of
Transportation has numerous
[2:52:53] cameras along the freeways.
[2:52:54] And the county uh road department has
cameras at many intersections
[2:52:59] throughout Macomb County, including
St. Clair Shores.
[2:53:03] Um,
[2:53:04] a valid reason and a complaint number
have to be put in by
[2:53:07] the officer if they're going to check
the system.
[2:53:11] Uh, next slide, please.
[2:53:15] So this is how they're used.
[2:53:17] So, a car passes the camera, the
images are taken, and
[2:53:20] this they're stored in the cloud.
[2:53:21] So, I drove into here, uh, today, my
my vehicle plate
[2:53:25] and the description was captured by
numerous
[2:53:28] cameras on my way here.
[2:53:29] Those images go up into the cloud.
[2:53:32] Hopefully they'll never be checked by
anybody because
[2:53:34] I'm not going to be a subject of a
criminal investigation.
[2:53:38] So there are a lot of, um, photos or
images taken and
[2:53:41] very few are ever accessed by law
enforcement.
[2:53:45] Again, a legitimate law enforcement
reason is needed.
[2:53:48] And then we still verify. So this was
prior to flock
[2:53:51] and and, uh, just as part of,
[2:53:53] uh, regular law enforcement
procedures.
[2:53:57] So say we see a stolen car, uh, a BOL
from dispatch or an officer sees a
stolen car.
[2:54:03] We check the plate, comes back
stolen.
[2:54:06] So then what we do is we have
dispatch verify with the
[2:54:08] entering jurisdiction that that
indeed is still a
[2:54:11] stolen vehicle, and that the plate
matches the vehicle that's
[2:54:15] been entered into the system.
[2:54:17] Once that's verified, then that
traffic stop would occur.
[2:54:20] So again, we're still verifying, uh,
through a
[2:54:23] human eyes that this is the exact
vehicle.
[2:54:27] Um, thus far we've we've utilized the
system to make
[2:54:32] more than 40 arrests and have
recovered multiple stolen
[2:54:36] vehicles since we've had this system
in just just over a year.
[2:54:40] Uh, the next why use?
[2:54:46] So, many of the crimes that we've
solved, also cleared
[2:54:48] cases in other jurisdictions, there's
one of the, um,
[2:54:51] I'm one of the slides there's a case,
there's an armed
[2:54:54] robbery of a check caching place in
the north end of town.
[2:54:57] Um, we cleared that case with the
assistance of Flock.
[2:54:59] Again, it's a tool that helps the
detectives besides doing the regular
techniques.
[2:55:04] Um, that suspect was identified, was
on parole for
[2:55:07] other violent crimes,
[2:55:09] uh, who's arrested for our armed
robbery as well as
[2:55:11] armed robbery.
[2:55:12] various and other neighboring
jurisdictions.
[2:55:15] So obviously crime doesn't have
borders. People are going to come and
go,
[2:55:19] uh, into our town and to others. So.
[2:55:24] Um.
[2:55:29] Okay, next slide, please.
[2:55:32] So again, authorized access, our
officers, um,
[2:55:37] to access the system, they have to be
on our user lists. They have to go
[2:55:40] initial training,
[2:55:42] annual review of the policy.
[2:55:45] Uh they have to use a username
[2:55:47] and password and multi-factor
[2:55:49] authentication uh through text or
email
[2:55:51] to actually utilize the system.
[2:55:54] Um.
[2:55:58] the investigative, uh reason and uh
complaint number. Again,
[2:56:02] there need to be uh listed in there
by the officer.
[2:56:07] The audit, uh any activity is logged
for audit purposes and reviewed by
[2:56:12] in this case it's our detective
bureau lieutenant.
[2:56:16] So, we have a few different, um, ways
to do this.
[2:56:20] So, um.
[2:56:24] we have our monthly audits. We used
to do them quarterly. Now we do them
monthly.
[2:56:29] Uh, so the detective lieutenant goes
through, um, sees how many times it
was used,
[2:56:35] sees how many times officers ran
plates.
[2:56:38] And then they, um, spot check
numerous complaint numbers to verify
[2:56:44] that they were legitimate uses.
[2:56:46] So when the officer puts in a
complaint number,
[2:56:48] uh, the detective pulls that
complaint number,
[2:56:51] actually runs the report, that report
complaint number in our report system
[2:56:54] to verify, yep, that was a stolen car
case or that was a domestic
[2:56:57] violence case where the suspect left
the scene prior to officer's arrival.
[2:57:00] Whatever the case may be.
[2:57:02] Uh, and we found no uh violations of
our directive.
[2:57:07] We also utilize, um, it's called
audit assist. It's a program within
[2:57:10] the flock system
[2:57:12] that automatically flags any unusual
activity.
[2:57:16] So if an officer runs a plate
numerous times, or if an officer runs
the same
[2:57:20] plate on multiple days,
[2:57:23] um.
[2:57:25] You know what, ma'am, a little
respect would be nice, okay?
[2:57:27] We we give you the respect, we expect
the respect back. That would be nice.
[2:57:31] Uh so then
[2:57:32] [crowd]
[2:57:34] takes the, uh,
[2:57:37] uh, that lets us know that there
there could be a problem.
[2:57:41] Those have been spot-checked as well
and we've not uh we've not seen any
[2:57:45] uh violations of our uh directive.
[2:57:49] Um.
[2:57:51] That was the audit stuff.
[2:57:53] Our directive, uh, has been approved
by MMA, uh Michigan Municipal Risk
[2:57:56] Management Authority, and by the city
attorney's office.
[2:58:00] And again, an annual review is
required by everyone who uses our
system.
[2:58:05] Um.
[2:58:07] There are questions about the
directive and uh running the
[2:58:10] running a plate through the system.
[2:58:13] So I can't run my own plate and I
can't run somebody else's
[2:58:15] plate just to see if it's been
queried.
[2:58:18] Um, that's against the directive
because there's no legitimate law
[2:58:20] enforcement reason to do that.
[2:58:22] Um, I know again, you know, my my
plate and vehicle descriptions run
[2:58:26] through this, you know, images are
captured
[2:58:30] uh, through numerous jurisdictions
daily. And, um.
[2:58:36] I haven't been contacted because I
haven't been the subject of a
[2:58:39] criminal investigation.
[2:58:42] This is not access by ICE.
[2:58:45] Um.
[2:58:46] Next.
[2:58:47] So our retention for the data is 30
days.
[2:58:51] We can switch it to 14 or seven. The
flock system allows for those
[2:58:54] uh choices to be made in the system.
[2:58:58] But the Michigan records retention
schedule, the statute that, um,
[2:59:01] dictates how long data needs to be
kept by municipalities and his
[2:59:04] department says it has to be 30 days.
[2:59:08] So,
[2:59:09] if this if, if this data is used in a
criminal investigation and
[2:59:12] prosecution, obviously it can be kept
longer,
[2:59:17] Uh, because if, you know, a murder
case could take years
[2:59:19] to get through the system, so that
would still be kept
[2:59:21] as part of the case file.
[2:59:24] Um.
[2:59:25] Again, we have our safeguards of
training, policy review, audits, and
[2:59:29] if there are problems, uh, discipline
is addressed in our directive.
[2:59:34] Uh, next, please.
[2:59:37] Annual cost. We have 12 cameras, uh,
so it's $3,000 a camera per year.
[2:59:42] The first year was a little bit more
because of the installation costs
[2:59:45] that were, um, needed.
[2:59:48] We have a five-year contract, and we
just paid year two. The funds for
this
[2:59:52] comes from the Drug Law Enforcement
Fund, not from the general fund.
[2:59:58] Uh.
[3:00:00] Next, please.
[3:00:02] These are some, uh, just examples of
some of the uses that we've had.
There
[3:00:06] are a couple of pages more. I think
it's in the packet that the city
[3:00:08] manager mentioned.
[3:00:10] Um, so there are
[3:00:13] there are more, uh, success stories
for that use.
[3:00:17] Uh, and then lastly,
[3:00:19] so the red cameras are the cameras
around town, uh, a lot on the
[3:00:25] North End, the West End and the South
End. Um, every
[3:00:30] jurisdiction around us except now for
one on our south side on the
[3:00:36] toward the south end of town on the
west side of us.
[3:00:43] So these have been publicly
available, uh, the locations that is.
[3:00:48] They face inward as I said and
capture the rear of vehicles.
[3:00:55] Uh, so they don't, we're not tracking
people. Um, this is a tool.
[3:01:00] So you can travel all over our city
and never be on camera on a flock
[3:01:04] camera. You can be on lots of other
cameras but you can't be on a
[3:01:06] flock camera. So, if you live say
near 8 and a half and Harper,
[3:01:09] you could go, uh, a little bit north,
maybe grab some groceries,
[3:01:14] go to the Civic Arena for a park
pass, grab a sandwich on 9 and a half
and
[3:01:18] Harper, go get gas maybe or a snack
at 10 and Little Mac.
[3:01:23] Stop at the fire department for some
fire prevention tips.
[3:01:27] Go to 12 and Harper for a snack or a
pop there.
[3:01:31] Go to the golf course for a quick
nine.
[3:01:33] Go up to Kite Monroe for a pickleball
game.
[3:01:35] Head over to Veterans Memorial Park
for a nice walk along the track.
[3:01:40] Head south down to the library to
pick up a book.
[3:01:43] Go to Blossom Heath to go fishing.
[3:01:45] And then go on to Jefferson for
dinner.
[3:01:48] Go to the social district downtown
for a nice evening.
[3:01:50] And then back home and you would have
never been on a flock camera.
[3:01:54] So, these aren't tailing people,
they're not chasing people.
[3:01:57] Um there are some things,
[3:01:59] uh, flock does offer a transparency
portal it's called,
[3:02:02] where data can be publicly, uh,
posted for anybody to see.
[3:02:06] We would like to get that posted onto
the city website.
[3:02:09] It shows data as question and answer
sections, things like that.
[3:02:12] Um, I'm sure our flock rep would get
us in touch with the right
[3:02:16] people to get that up and running.
[3:02:19] We can look at our sharing
properties, so we share with numerous
[3:02:23] different agencies.
[3:02:24] Right now we don't do anything out of
state and no federal agencies.
[3:02:28] So we can look into narrowing that
down to which agencies with which we
share
[3:02:32] or which agencies can see our data.
[3:02:36] And we need to do further research on
the, uh, retention because
[3:02:40] right now the statute limits, uh, us
in reducing that.
[3:02:44] Uh, we're also hoping all of us are
gonna have a new governor
[3:02:48] here soon, and no matter who's
elected,
[3:02:50] uh, we hope that there would be some
guidance coming from the state level,
[3:02:53] every community is going through
similar things.
[3:02:57] And we're all looking for answers and
and one, um, overhead way
[3:03:01] to handle everything throughout all
these jurisdictions. So.
[3:03:06] Uh, and I spoke with the
representative earlier today,
[3:03:11] uh, hopefully the legislature can
also help in that regard.
[3:03:15] Mr. Lant, thank you. Yeah, so.
[3:03:17] Thank you, uh, Chief, um, for coming
up here.
[3:03:20] And then, um, as as the Chief just
indicated to,
[3:03:24] uh, there is going to be a new
governor.
[3:03:27] Um, there are going to be, um,
hopefully some guidance from
[3:03:31] the state.
[3:03:32] Obviously, you're seeing constant as
I think multiple people actually
[3:03:36] brought up during their two minute.
[3:03:39] Uh, there has been discussion even at
the federal level.
[3:03:43] Uh, there is a lack of kind of
guidance at the federal level
[3:03:46] and at the state level.
[3:03:48] Uh, hopefully that will be coming in
the very near future.
[3:03:51] This is a very hot topic, you do see
this being discussed.
[3:03:55] And or voted in some communities down
and other communities voted up.
[3:04:00] Um, as Warren just voted to keep
theirs as well.
[3:04:03] Um, so you are seeing kind of a blend
across this nation and across
[3:04:07] this state of kind of what's going
on. Um.
[3:04:11] But that being said, I know that we
had, like I said, a lot of these
[3:04:15] individuals who came tonight.
[3:04:16] And then also came two weeks ago.
[3:04:18] Uh, we did try to compile as much
information as we could.
[3:04:21] I know that the chief, um, has
reached out, we're trying to see
[3:04:25] if we could get a flock
representative here.
[3:04:27] Uh, they are...
[3:04:29] This is for council.
[3:04:30] Um, so, so information, uh, so we
could get, uh...
[3:04:36] So we could get more information, uh,
so if council does have some
[3:04:40] technical questions.
[3:04:42] Um, as well as, uh, making sure that
we have some of our detectives
[3:04:46] that do go through the training and
provide that, so any information,
[3:04:49] just so we can be well informed on
both sides.
[3:04:53] Um, like I said, there is a lot of
misinformation on both different
sides.
[3:04:58] And this does show what's there, so
council can be well informed.
[3:05:02] Chief, you did have to at the end you
had some open questions still.
[3:05:05] Can you give that again that you you
thought that maybe you don't have
[3:05:08] all the answers for which one was a
portal, we don't.
[3:05:13] The transparency portal, we would
like to get that up and running.
[3:05:16] It shows uh how the system's used by
officer with raw data,
[3:05:19] numbers, how many how many images
[3:05:22] are captured, how many searches are
conducted, those types of things.
[3:05:25] It doesn't show the plate number or
the officer's name or the
[3:05:29] complaint number, uh but those are
searchable if they need to be
[3:05:33] uh through a unique identifying
number in the system.
[3:05:36] So we'd like to get that up and
running.
[3:05:38] Um, I I spoke with our rep briefly
about it and he said he
[3:05:42] can certainly hook us up with whoever
it is that needs that
[3:05:44] handles that kind of aspect of that
program.
[3:05:47] I mean, I do have a thought here that
I mean, I do have a thought here that
I think there are still open
questions
[3:05:50] of very well we may be put a pause to
this program or bag these bags
[3:05:54] to maybe we have some additional
questions answered and and that, but
[3:05:58] [applause]
[3:06:06] I I understand. I I I understand.
[3:06:08] Um, but Ms. Roosey?
[3:06:10] Thank you. Well, um,
[3:06:12] I guess I'll start off the comments
and some questions.
[3:06:16] First off, I I think having a flock
sales rep here would be as
[3:06:22] satisfying as it was when we were
having garbage issues and kept having
[3:06:25] the priority people summoned to stand
at the podium and give us
[3:06:28] excuses and I'm sure it would be just
as frustrating.
[3:06:31] [applause]
[3:06:36] I would enjoy it. I'll just say that,
[3:06:38] but I just don't think it would be
very beneficial
[3:06:40] to the process. Um,
[3:06:44] And the snow globe analogy that you
were putting forth, you could do all
[3:06:48] the stuff in Sinclair Shores and
never be hit by a flock camera is
kind
[3:06:52] of was kind of creepy actually
because we have a right to leave the
city
[3:06:55] and to travel. You know, and to go
[3:06:57] [applause]
[3:07:00] I would enjoy it. You could drive
[3:07:02] through every city and not get hit by
a flock camera isn't really like,
[3:07:05] okay, that's fine, but that doesn't
really address the concerns we do
[3:07:08] have because we're not in a snow
globe, right? With a dome like a
[3:07:13] Truman show. I guess maybe a little
bit, but um,
[3:07:17] That was a good movie.
[3:07:20] So it was a scary movie.
[3:07:23] Um, a couple of the of the points
though, I guess.
[3:07:28] You know, you had mentioned how the
pictures go up into the cloud, right?
[3:07:32] And most of them won't be looked at,
but there was just a flock camera
[3:07:36] that was hack and they put you know
some articles out there about how
[3:07:39] these things actually work, which is
just like in the past couple of days
[3:07:43] from the last means to now. And it
says, contrary to some assumptions
[3:07:46] about the system, the software on the
this is I'm reading an article from
[3:07:50] a website. The software on the camera
itself doesn't read license plates
[3:07:54] or identify a vehicle's make model or
color. That processing happens
[3:07:57] later on the Flatsome servers after
the device transmits its photos.
[3:08:01] So it sound like they're passively
going up to a cloud just kind of
[3:08:05] floating around. They're going to a
server for analysis.
[3:08:09] So that was you know what I mean,
that's a little bit different.
[3:08:12] How many images per vehicle are
taken?
[3:08:14] So if a car drives past a flock
camera, how many separate images?
[3:08:18] I know it doesn't do video, but how
many actual images?
[3:08:21] One. It's a lot, it's a lot.
[3:08:23] It's multiple images.
[3:08:26] So it it kind of actually if yeah, if
you look at how many images, they
[3:08:29] actually kind of does operate as a
video because we don't know how flip
[3:08:32] books work when you have a bunch of
pictures in series taken
consecutively,
[3:08:36] it pretty much shows it moving. So
[3:08:39] that was uh new information to me too
from the that information I saw
[3:08:44] about the hack that came out. So it
was good information, but
[3:08:48] And he I had sent this question via
email, but in some of the answers
[3:08:54] to some of the questions put forward
by the the residents.
[3:08:57] It said that all the cameras in the
public right away. I asked about the
[3:09:00] 14 Harper one that is not located
though in between the street and the
[3:09:04] sidewalk. It's located between the
sidewalk and the parking lot of that
[3:09:07] strip mall right there. Is that one
of ours?
[3:09:10] Yes. And that does that count as a
public right away because it's not
[3:09:15] the street and the sidewalk. It's
between the sidewalk and the parking
[3:09:17] lot, that green way.
[3:09:18] I I'll have to look at what the
county's roads department sent on
[3:09:21] that one. It's their their road and
and and it would have been there
right away.
[3:09:24] Okay, because it says very
defensively, they're all on public
right of ways.
[3:09:27] There should be no question about any
of the answers we have. It should be
[3:09:31] accurate, nothing you have to look
for look into.
[3:09:33] Because otherwise, I mean it's hard
to put a lot of trust into these
[3:09:36] answers then when I only know that
one because
[3:09:39] I have a very trustworthy. It's on my
I I would hope so.
[3:09:42] But it's like, I know about that one
because it's on my adapter road
[3:09:46] on Harper, so I have to clean around.
I have to clean around the right
[3:09:49] away that's not there. It's in
between the sidewalk and the parking
lot.
[3:09:52] So when I saw, they're all on the
public right away, it's like, well,
[3:09:55] how did that one get there?
[3:09:57] So, I I
[3:10:00] Uh, let's see. So we I know every
search has to have a reason.
[3:10:05] I was looking at some of the data
from Sinclair Shore's searches that
[3:10:09] were put on the have I been flought
website, I see inves
[3:10:12] investigation was used
[3:10:14] just as a reason. I know that's not a
good reason, but it was used.
[3:10:16] Do we not allow that anymore? Do we
have to have a more
[3:10:19] definitive reason that type an
investigation?
[3:10:22] Yes.
[3:10:24] But we
[3:10:25] There's a drop-down that's provided
with options.
[3:10:29] That's not an option that we use.
[3:10:30] Not anymore.
[3:10:31] It had been used.
[3:10:34] I send an email about that too,
[3:10:36] about some of the searches I had saw.
[3:10:38] I can check the audit log to see if
that's been changed.
[3:10:40] Yeah, I think that was back, it was
probably back in late November,
[3:10:44] so it might be changed by now, but it
was
[3:10:46] It'll show in the system.
[3:10:47] Yeah, some of the, I have very
limited information
[3:10:50] I've been able to find, but the one I
I did see that
[3:10:53] come up a few times from earlier
searches,
[3:10:55] investigation. So that's very
oblique.
[3:10:57] That's not
[3:10:59] uh, a very good reason.
[3:11:03] So, anyway,
[3:11:05] um, let's see.
[3:11:09] I going to just re let me get to my
notes.
[3:11:13] I'm going to reincorporate,
[3:11:15] I made a lot comments at the last, I
actually made a lot
[3:11:17] comments about these things February
2025 during the
[3:11:19] study session,
[3:11:21] a lot of the same concerns that are
being brought up now.
[3:11:24] I brought these up over a year ago,
[3:11:27] but um, that's fine.
[3:11:30] Um, again, these aren't license plate
readers. They capture a
[3:11:34] lot more details about the vehicle
than plates, including
[3:11:36] type, make, color, unique features,
bumper stickers,
[3:11:39] decals, roof rats, damage.
[3:11:41] Um, and beyond the hit list that we
we like to talk about,
[3:11:46] they also create uh, the ability to
search by license plate and
[3:11:50] gets a list of all locations that
play is passed by in
[3:11:52] 30 days.
[3:11:54] I know we say, well, they don't
track. Well, maybe not technically,
[3:11:57] but if there's a big network of
cameras out there
[3:11:59] and a lot of these cameras and the
ability to search
[3:12:02] all the data that's being fed into
this network
[3:12:04] for 30 days,
[3:12:06] that kind of puts together a pretty
good search about
[3:12:09] where this vehicle's been, even if it
isn't actively
[3:12:12] tracking it,
[3:12:15] you can kind of reverse engineer it.
[3:12:17] So it's not a passive reader system,
it aggregates these
[3:12:19] to track movement over a month-long
period.
[3:12:21] the concern grows more than that
works the camera grows.
[3:12:24] And this data can be as access
without the legal protections
[3:12:27] of a warrant require it, that makes a
diff uh
[3:12:29] different than some
[3:12:30] people always bring up, 'well, you
carry a cell phone.'
[3:12:32] No, my God, I love my cell phone.
[3:12:34] But that requires a warrant if the
police want to look at
[3:12:36] that location data. You can't just
pull entire databases.
[3:12:41] Uh, and I can turn my phone off, I
can leave my phone at home,
[3:12:44] it's my choice.
[3:12:45] I mean, I I, you know, it's a little
bit different than
[3:12:48] driving a car and going outside the
city like I'd forbid
[3:12:51] sometimes we want to.
[3:12:54] [laughter]
[3:12:56] Um, these record every vehicle's
coming and goings when they
[3:12:59] pass the camera, creates a
comprehensive record of them
[3:13:01] rather than just taking pictures of
license plates,
[3:13:04] checking and gets a local hot list
[3:13:06] and then flushing the data if there's
no hits.
[3:13:08] So retention, that's when the Fourth
Amendment constitutional
[3:13:11] concern comes in. The government
should be tracking someone again
[3:13:13] it's kind of how it operates,
[3:13:15] unless it has individualized
suspicion uh, Rondoin.
[3:13:19] The creation of this data is
inescapable given the breath
[3:13:22] in network and it's automatic.
[3:13:23] You can't opt out of it if you're in
a car with a license plate on it.
[3:13:28] Uh, the Supreme Court has found that
people have a reasonable
[3:13:30] expectation of privacy in the whole
of their physical
[3:13:32] movements because of the privacy of
life, these
[3:13:34] movements can reveal
[3:13:36] aggregate digital data, uh, location
over time, creates a
[3:13:39] detailed record of their movements,
which can reveal
[3:13:41] highly sensitive details about their
life. It's the aggregation
[3:13:44] of the data that's the issue. Even if
each individual
[3:13:46] observation was publicly visible,
[3:13:50] because you're always here like, 'oh,
you're in public, you've no
[3:13:52] expectation of privacy.' Well, yeah,
I've seen you with my
[3:13:53] eyes, I do, but this
[3:13:54] these are cameras recording this
movement, creating, that's the,
[3:13:57] it's the aggregation.
[3:13:59] I brought that up in February 2025
really, what your issue
[3:14:02] with these cameras is data
aggregation.
[3:14:03] Well, what does that mean? That's
what that means.
[3:14:05] It's the 30-day retention in the
network and all the cameras out
[3:14:08] there creating a bigger and larger
and more expansive
[3:14:11] network is the issue.
[3:14:14] So, you know, and again, I mentioned
this at the last
[3:14:17] [applause]
[3:14:21] I mentioned this at the last meeting
too because one of the
[3:14:24] um arguments you hear sometimes is,
'well, you got if you don't
[3:14:27] have anything to hide, where you're
afraid of?'
[3:14:29] I got nothing to hide.
[3:14:31] But the Constitution protects the
rights of people with
[3:14:34] nothing to hide too. It protects
everybody.
[3:14:37] [applause]
[3:14:43] I mentioned that too back in February
2025 as well as
[3:14:45] at the last mean, but it's
[3:14:47] really I think inescapable now, the
importance of this one
[3:14:50] because of what we just saw in the
news that's been referenced
[3:14:53] about what happened in with our
neighboring communities.
[3:14:55] We do have a directive policy in
place, govern our officers use
[3:14:58] of the tool.
[3:15:01] But our directive doesn't govern how
other jurisdictions
[3:15:04] officers access our data.
[3:15:06] We could
[3:15:07] [applause]
[3:15:11] We could have the most
[3:15:12] Perfect policy of, with teeth,
[3:15:15] with enforcement, the most perfect
officers you can imagine.
[3:15:18] But it doesn't matter given we're
opening up our data to
[3:15:20] over 180 jurisdictions in Michigan.
[3:15:23] And like uh Senator Chu said,
[3:15:25] no federal or state regulations offer
protections.
[3:15:29] There are no legislative protections
point Michigan.
[3:15:31] The technology is kind of out pace
the law at this point.
[3:15:33] So we have what we have right now is
sometimes
[3:15:36] some of these municipalities that do
have access to data
[3:15:39] may have policies, they may not be
great policies,
[3:15:42] they may not have any policies, they
may not be enforced.
[3:15:45] But right now it's just this
hodgepodge governing this and
[3:15:47] unless we have some sort of
memorandum of understanding
[3:15:51] with other agencies access your data,
[3:15:53] which some municipalities ask for, we
don't.
[3:15:56] Some municipal municipalities have
started asking accessing agencies to
enter into an MOU
[3:16:00] basically saying you will abide by
our policies,
[3:16:04] but that's just a mess, but there's
no overarching
[3:16:07] regulations about this.
[3:16:09] Which is really scary given how this
is grown. Right.
[3:16:13] So, uh there were highly publicized
instance of misuse
[3:16:16] nationwide at the time of the study
session
[3:16:18] February 2025. There have been
additional ones since.
[3:16:21] And since the last meeting, one right
next door. Unfortunately.
[3:16:26] And um again data access concerns it
turns out.
[3:16:29] I mean you I know chief you have
mentioned no federal agencies at this
time.
[3:16:34] And we were told previously no
federal agencies,
[3:16:37] but the FBI was accessing our data
for two months, correct?
[3:16:40] That's correct.
[3:16:42] And I I I have been asking about that
because we were told
[3:16:44] and I've been telling people,
[3:16:46] oh yeah, oh it's 180 jurisdictions in
Michigan,
[3:16:48] no federal agencies.
[3:16:49] And we come to find out, yes, it was
the FBI for two months.
[3:16:53] And it's like, well, somebody's in
the system
[3:16:56] some system administrator allowed us.
[3:16:58] But it seemed like when you told us
to us it was a surprise.
[3:17:01] Which isn't cool.
[3:17:03] And when the the things was, well,
the it was the FBI office
[3:17:05] in Detroit,
[3:17:06] it's like, oh my god, that doesn't
make it in
[3:17:08] state. Yeah. The F and FBI
[3:17:10] stands for federal. Regardless of
where the office
[3:17:13] is located.
[3:17:15] So it's like, you know, if we have to
like, if we're told
[3:17:18] things and we're going forward and
telling residents this,
[3:17:21] oh no, no, this is what it is, this
is what this is how the
[3:17:24] information and
[3:17:25] it's wrong. I was telling people
wrong information because I was
trusting.
[3:17:29] And that's a really icky thing to be
in. I don't like that.
[3:17:33] Um, you mentioned transparency
portal, shorter retention period,
[3:17:36] I talked about the MOUs.
[3:17:39] Again, we don't have a state or
federal regulations,
[3:17:41] hopefully soon.
[3:17:42] Do we run searches for other agencies
if an agency who doesn't have flock
called us up and said
[3:17:47] because I saw some of this not
necessarily connected with
[3:17:49] St. Clair Shores, but with other
departments running searches for
[3:17:52] other people and they would put that
in their their reason.
[3:17:56] Do we run if another department that
doesn't have flock call us
[3:17:58] and said, hey, could you run this
plate for me, would we do it? Sure.
[3:18:02] Okay. Absolutely.
[3:18:04] because if there's a murder, say
there's a murder, say there's a
murder in Dallas, Texas, and they
think their
[3:18:07] suspect has fled to Southeast
Michigan,
[3:18:10] I would want to help that department
catch the bad guy.
[3:18:13] So yes, we would share that
information with them.
[3:18:15] [laughter]
Please, please, please.
[3:18:16] No, it's just it's just I you know, I
want to understand who has access to
our data
[3:18:20] and it's stuff like that that we're
told, oh, it's just in state
agencies.
[3:18:25] And then it turns out no, it's
actually was the FBI too for a few
months.
[3:18:28] They don't have access to it. We
could provide them some data.
[3:18:30] Okay, but I'm just trying to
understand who gets access to
[3:18:33] the data our cameras generate because
[3:18:37] yes, our residents could be very
insular and just travel within St.
Clair Shores,
[3:18:41] but
[3:18:43] most of these people driving it out,
do live in St. Clair Shores and these
are our residents data.
[3:18:47] I would like to know who has access
to know who has access to that
because that's a big question and
[3:18:50] concern rightfully so that comes up.
[3:18:53] And I I'm not sure if anyone up here
really has a full understanding of
that
[3:18:57] because sometimes the answer seem to
be changing a little bit.
[3:19:01] Um, let's see.
[3:19:06] Oh, I think that's a I talked a lot
and I know a lot of people want to
weigh in, but
[3:19:10] oh, oh, I also want to see a terrain
looking why is the termination clause
[3:19:13] in the contract.
[3:19:16] The contract uh the payments will
still have to be made,
[3:19:19] but the service would not be
available.
[3:19:21] So we'd still have to pay for five
years or four years at this point.
[3:19:25] Three more.
[3:19:26] Three more years.
[3:19:26] We just made the second. Second
payment.
[3:19:29] [laughter]
Great, great contracts.
[3:19:32] Okay. Thank you.
[3:19:34] I I didn't vote for this. I was out
of state when the vote was made.
[3:19:37] So I was out of state when the vote
was made.
[3:19:39] [applause]
I
[3:19:42] Mr. Burgess. Thank you.
[3:19:44] I don't want to repeat.
[3:19:46] I don't want to repeat
[3:19:47] um or get into everything that uh
Miss Roosey brought up.
[3:19:52] Uh though I agree with what she has
said tonight. Um,
[3:19:57] I right before we started this um
Mayor had said that
[3:19:59] maybe we should be taking a pause.
[3:20:05] And I believe we should be taking a
pause.
[3:20:08] [applause]
[3:20:12] [applause]
[3:20:14] safeguards safeguards need be in
place
[3:20:17] and Chief. I trust you. I've known
you for years and uh
[3:20:23] I have a great amount respect for our
police department.
[3:20:27] But chiefs change,
[3:20:28] officers change, counsels change,
[3:20:30] administration changes, technology
changes,
[3:20:35] but these safeguards need to be in
place
[3:20:37] and we don't have enough of those
safeguards right now.
[3:20:40] Um, if someone someday decided to
misuse this technology,
[3:20:46] what Pacific specifically prevents
them from doing it.
[3:20:50] And if it can't be prevented, how
quickly will we know?
[3:20:54] You said uh also that um, you
mentioned about uh that
[3:20:58] there's been no incidences.
[3:21:01] Um, during your audits, have you
found any discrepancies?
[3:21:06] Has anybody done something even the
slightest bit?
[3:21:09] No. That's good news. That's good
news.
[3:21:13] Uh, you also said that um, you've had
43 success stories
[3:21:17] with the flat camera systems.
[3:21:20] But you didn't there's no breakdown
of that.
[3:21:23] Could of these been discovered
without flat cameras?
[3:21:27] I'm sure some, sure.
[3:21:30] Okay, so, um, I want to make my
position clear.
[3:21:34] I believe in the concept of
protecting our citizens.
[3:21:39] If this technology can help the
police department,
[3:21:42] catch a dangerous criminal, locate a
kidnapped child,
[3:21:45] identify a hit and run driver,
recover a stolen car.
[3:21:49] I understand that and I and I believe
that there are some
[3:21:52] good points to the flat camera
system.
[3:21:56] But I, if we can't have safeguards in
place for our
[3:22:01] rights as citizens and I was here
voted upon by the citizens
[3:22:06] and as Candace mentioned, I wasn't
here for the vote as well.
[3:22:10] Um, but I believe that it's not an
either or
[3:22:14] that they have to everything has to
be put in place
[3:22:18] to protect not only our citizens'
privacies,
[3:22:22] but also protect our citizens from
criminals.
[3:22:25] So, uh, if we're coming to any kind
of vote tonight, which
[3:22:28] I know we're not, I would say that we
need to pause this
[3:22:32] until we can get these safeguards in
place, get some answers.
[3:22:36] One thing Candace says, we won't we
don't even know all of this.
[3:22:39] I mean, we we're trying to figure out
questions.
[3:22:42] Um, and there has been discrepancies
between what
[3:22:46] Flock told us in the study section
session
[3:22:49] to what's actually taking place.
[3:22:52] So, like I said, I respect our police
department, I respect
[3:22:55] you very much, but things will can
change.
[3:22:58] This is a five-year contract, who's
to say who who's around?
[3:23:03] East Point had two officers, uh,
there was another city that
[3:23:07] um, I thought it was Sterling
Heights,
[3:23:09] but I don't want to say that out
loud.
[3:23:10] Uh, so it could have been any
different one, but it's here
[3:23:14] within our uh within the metropolitan
area that
[3:23:19] an officer used that to track his
ex-wife,
[3:23:22] he was ultimately fired.
[3:23:25] But what safeguards do we have that
people aren't using these
[3:23:29] things for uh other uses?
[3:23:34] So, and I know that other people have
I know we got a PowerPoint
[3:23:36] coming up here soon, so it might
answer some more questions.
[3:23:40] Thank you. Mr. Vitale.
[3:23:42] Okay.
[3:23:43] I'm I guess I'm gonna I guess I'm
gonna start out
[3:23:46] [applause]
[3:23:47] I'm gonna I'm gonna start out in the
same way that my two
[3:23:50] colleagues have by just saying
[3:23:53] I'm going to use the word pause
because I think there's certain
[3:23:56] legalities
[3:23:57] in terms of the contract and in terms
of removing the cameras
[3:24:00] that we need to look into.
[3:24:02] And by saying pause and bag, that's
something that, you know,
[3:24:05] we can do within 24 hours.
[3:24:08] So, that's why I'm saying that, not
saying removal, I'm saying
[3:24:11] bag and discontinue the program.
[3:24:13] [applause]
[3:24:18] And I and I now I'd like to to give
some reasons behind that.
[3:24:22] Now, I was one of the people who did
vote for this.
[3:24:26] And I see that this is basically an
unproven beta test that
[3:24:30] we've kind of been suggested
subjected to.
[3:24:36] And I would like to know how did how
did originally when
[3:24:40] this was brought in front of us, we
had already had the cameras.
[3:24:45] The cameras had already been up for
months.
[3:24:48] I don't know the exact period of
time,
[3:24:50] I don't know if it's a full year.
[3:24:51] What?
[3:24:52] No.
[3:24:53] No. Wait a second.
[3:24:54] We were told these cameras were
already up.
[3:24:58] No. Before they were voted on.
[3:24:59] Before they were voted on?
[3:25:01] No. No. No.
[3:25:02] Well then was that we was that would
that we receiving
[3:25:04] information from other neighbor
communities?
[3:25:08] Oh, there's yes. Yes. Yeah. Maybe
that
[3:25:10] okay. All right. So
[3:25:12] we were receiving from other
neighboring communities
[3:25:14] essentially the same type of
information.
[3:25:18] We didn't have them physically in St.
Clair Shores.
[3:25:21] That's correct. Correct. Totally.
Right.
[3:25:23] Okay, so perhaps when I took that was
that we were
[3:25:26] using information from other
communities.
[3:25:32] How did those other communities
[3:25:34] end up with the cameras before we
did.
[3:25:36] And how long in front of us, say
Roseville or something like that.
[3:25:42] What did we just learn Eastpoint was
2024?
[3:25:44] So I don't I mean is that
[3:25:45] I mean I think we just
[3:25:46] we heard that at the at the their
last meeting.
[3:25:49] I guess I was under the impression
that this was a
[3:25:51] this was done by Ceressa.
[3:25:53] This is with who they solicited.
[3:25:55] That's not correct. That's not
correct. No.
[3:25:58] Each individual department sought it
separately.
[3:26:03] And I believe there's over like I
think, I don't quote me
[3:26:05] but I think it's over, say
[3:26:06] probably be out here no more I duh
the total totality.
[3:26:09] but I think there's over 6,000 just
in the state of Michigan.
[3:26:12] And I think the first communities in
Michigan was all the way back
[3:26:15] in 2020, 2021.
[3:26:18] Do you know what the number is that
the county uses?
[3:26:21] How many cameras in Macomb County?
[3:26:24] Uh, I talked to the sheriff the other
day. I believe he said 32.
[3:26:29] [laughter]
[3:26:34] No, and within Macomb County,
[3:26:35] that was the question I asked, not
St. Clair Shores.
[3:26:40] that the sheriff uses? Yeah.
[3:26:41] Yeah, I think the sheriff's office
has 32.
[3:26:44] Those are flock or are those
something else, flock?
[3:26:47] Other jurisdictions within Macomb
County have their own.
[3:26:51] Harper's a county road.
[3:26:53] Our Mile roads are county roads,
[3:26:55] the even numbered ones.
[3:26:58] If Macomb County wanted to put
cameras up on Harper.
[3:27:02] Could we stop them?
[3:27:05] I that I don't know.
[3:27:07] I mean that's just let the air out of
the air out of the whole spend your
day in St. Clair Shores thing.
[3:27:11] [laughter]
[3:27:15] I don't think it would be wasteful
for them.
[3:27:17] Oh, clearly for you.
[3:27:18] Well, I don't, not necessarily.
[3:27:21] I mean, you'd have a scenario where
you're solving crimes
[3:27:23] that were St. Clair Shores resident
on St. Clair Shores
[3:27:25] resident crime.
[3:27:28] theoretically.
[3:27:31] So, and and this goes to maybe
Linda's point.
[3:27:35] I trust you. I've talked to you. I've
known you for years.
[3:27:38] And I don't have any specific reason
to have concerns about any of our
officers.
[3:27:43] But the fact of the matter is is that
you won't be there forever.
[3:27:46] Those officers won't be there
forever. We won't be here forever.
[3:27:50] And eventually you may we may reach a
point where we have a
[3:27:53] chief or a council or a county
executive who feels like, well,
[3:27:56] why not have them on every corner.
[3:28:01] And how do you how do you stop that
once you've kind of gone down this
road?
[3:28:06] So, I think that scenario that it's
just going to be if
[3:28:08] you leave
[3:28:09] St. Clair Shores it's going to go out
the window fairly quickly.
[3:28:16] further apply that and say there are
state roads.
[3:28:21] There are federal interstates.
[3:28:25] So those cameras could go up in any
of those.
[3:28:29] We have cameras right now that MDOT
has at our major
[3:28:32] intersections that
[3:28:34] do those have recording, not
recording, do those have real
[3:28:37] time viewing capability?
[3:28:40] The MDOT cameras on I94. Yes.
[3:28:43] No, the ones, well, okay, sure.
[3:28:46] And how about the ones on Harper?
[3:28:47] Nine Mile and Harper. Yes.
[3:28:49] Those are county cameras, not MDOT.
[3:28:50] Now, I remember when that was
explained to us and there was
[3:28:53] there was some consternation. I think
those cameras have
[3:28:55] probably been up for 10 years.
[3:28:58] about those cameras going up and oh
no, this is a surveillance
[3:29:01] state and why are there cameras
[3:29:03] and it was explained to us
[3:29:06] that those cameras are only there to
detect the presence of a vehicle.
[3:29:11] and change the light timing.
[3:29:13] So if I'm coming and I and I've
witnessed this before.
[3:29:15] I've I'm coming at an intersection
[3:29:16] at 4:00 in the morning and there's no
one around, it gives me the green.
[3:29:22] So, that's what we were told.
[3:29:24] So I'm understanding it that there's
just basically some
[3:29:27] vision program that sees an
[3:29:28] oncoming set of headlights or
something like that, looks at
[3:29:31] the surrounding intersections,
[3:29:32] turns the light green for me to keep
the traffic flowing.
[3:29:36] But now I'm learning that no, those
can be viewed or monitored
[3:29:39] at any time.
[3:29:45] So say there's a crash at whatever 12
and Harper.
[3:29:48] Um, traffic's backed up.
[3:29:51] They could then they can view that
intersection, they can change
[3:29:53] the light timing, they can do
[3:29:55] those types of things with the
system.
[3:29:57] I've not seen it work in person out
at Comtech, but that's my
[3:30:00] understanding.
[3:30:03] It isn't just sort of a robotic thing
that detects the presence
[3:30:05] of a vehicle
[3:30:06] and changes light timing. There's
human beings who can monitor
[3:30:09] from the eye.
[3:30:11] in the sky.
[3:30:13] Yeah.
[3:30:15] that's that seems different than what
I recall being called.
[3:30:18] I think that's what occurs I believe
there's 350 of these cameras by
[3:30:22] operated by the Macom County
Department of Roads. Roughly 350.
[3:30:25] cameras. And I I believe counselman
they they can flip them on and have
them all live.
[3:30:32] Okay. And if they can go live, they
can be recorded.
[3:30:35] I don't think they are being
recorded, but they can go live.
[3:30:38] I mean you can plug a video output
into a VCR and record something. I
mean
[3:30:43] So that capability would be there.
[3:30:47] Um, you do have a summary of flock
success stories. I believe I I tried
to count them quick.
[3:30:54] They're 19 of these listed.
[3:30:56] It's about right.
[3:30:59] About 19.
[3:31:01] I went through these and there's
really only one
[3:31:06] that actually prevented a crime.
[3:31:10] And that was uh, serial retail fraud
suspect, used flock to place vehicle
in the area
[3:31:17] at the time of the crime and its
alert function to notify patrol
[3:31:21] was able to stop the vehicle and make
arrest and impound the vehicle.
[3:31:25] retail fraud.
[3:31:28] But I've got to say for a lot of
these that are listed as success
stories,
[3:31:34] It just says um, stolen vehicle by
family member used flock to show
[3:31:41] vehicle was last observed in Michigan
and did not leave the state.
[3:31:45] I mean, I I don't know really if that
I'd call that a success story.
[3:31:49] It just proves that a crime.
[3:31:50] And no, I understand and and I hate
this because people are laughing and
I'm not
[3:31:55] trying to make fun of the work that
the work that the chief has done or
the police department.
[3:31:58] I'm trying to make a serious point
here.
[3:32:00] And the serious point is that we're
calling this a success. It's not
really a success.
[3:32:06] And I'm not saying that humorously.
[3:32:09] But I don't know if we can really
call that a success.
[3:32:12] So, and you know, there there is a
case up here at the top, just to be
fair,
[3:32:17] that talks about someone placing a
skimmer on an ATM and led to the
identification of a suspect.
[3:32:25] But a lot of these crimes, I would
not classify as headlines.
[3:32:32] And of course any crime is, you know,
a bad crime.
[3:32:34] But I I will also say this, the
police have tools within their
toolbox right now
[3:32:40] that they don't necessarily use.
[3:32:42] I had a resident who observed someone
throwing the entire fast food bag out
a window.
[3:32:48] And they took a picture of it, took a
picture of the license plate, uh
[3:32:52] posted on Facebook and then basically
said can't anything be done about
this.
[3:32:56] And and and I hate littering because
I hate littering because I think
that's like a psychopathic crime
really to do that.
[3:33:00] There's no gain to you.
[3:33:03] But I asked and it was explained to
me by the deputy chief that, okay,
[3:33:09] we got a license plate number, but we
don't know who's in the car.
[3:33:14] So we would have to bring that person
in, whoever the registered owner
[3:33:18] and then have a lineup, probably get
some similar people to stand next to
him
[3:33:23] and then that person who observed it
would have to identify the person
[3:33:27] and then we could issue them a
littering ticket.
[3:33:29] Now, of course, I understand we don't
do that. That's an enormous
imposition
[3:33:34] on civil liberties and things like
that.
[3:33:36] But we have the tool, we have the
capability
[3:33:39] And a lot of these that are listed as
success stories are
[3:33:44] essentially just looking up the
person who's identified with the
license plate.
[3:33:51] Um, there's another one here that
says identity theft victim reported
someone purchased three vehicles in
her name.
[3:33:57] Used flock to help identify the
colors of these vehicles for lean
entry and confirm
[3:34:03] they may not have entered St. Clair
Shores affirming the victim
statement.
[3:34:08] I don't even know how that disproves
or proves anything.
[3:34:11] They just say they never came into
St. Clair Shores.
[3:34:13] I've purchased cars in Arizona
before, never brought them into the
city.
[3:34:18] So, I guess what I'm just trying to
say is is that there's a great number
listed on here
[3:34:23] and I don't know if I can call all of
these success stories.
[3:34:27] And at the same time I have a lot of
horror stories.
[3:34:32] And I've got some that I'm going to,
you know, put into my council
comments
[3:34:36] and they really deal more with the
flock company itself and the
technology
[3:34:43] end of it.
[3:34:44] I I think we've kind of covered the
whole idea of officer abuses.
[3:34:49] I'm I don't want to sound callous,
but I suppose I'm less concerned with
that
[3:34:53] because we right already we have a
lean system and lean has existed for
probably
[3:34:58] your entire career?
[3:34:59] Longer.
[3:35:00] Or longer.
[3:35:01] And you can get in trouble for using
the lean system if you're not
supposed
[3:35:05] to use the lean system, and I think
that we have officers who get in
trouble
[3:35:09] for using the lean system.
[3:35:12] Um,
[3:35:13] Can you give us what the acronym is
for that so people know
[3:35:16] Law enforcement information network.
[3:35:18] Okay, It's basically everything that
correlates a license plate
[3:35:21] to the driver and the address.
[3:35:24] That that's one of the programs that
lean provides information.
[3:35:27] Yeah.
[3:35:28] And and we have, you know, there's
opportunity
[3:35:30] to abuse that system as well.
[3:35:32] And it has been,
[3:35:34] but, you know, we haven't given it up
in 50 years of having it.
[3:35:38] Um,
[3:35:39] So again, it's not an indictment on
an officer
[3:35:42] or department or anything like that.
[3:35:45] I would really just like to
concentrate on the efficacy
[3:35:49] of these cameras,
[3:35:50] which honestly on a return on
investment,
[3:35:54] It's to me it's not there and I think
that some of what I'm going to put up
[3:35:57] in my uh,
[3:36:00] council um, participation will show
that.
[3:36:05] The analogy that I used is that if,
um,
[3:36:10] if flock were a piece of DPW
equipment
[3:36:13] that we bought to plow snow,
[3:36:16] but every year we weren't even
getting snow that was worth plowing,
[3:36:20] we wouldn't just go out and buy it
because it existed.
[3:36:24] So
[3:36:25] what I'm seeing is crimelines that
dramatically have been dropping off
[3:36:28] in some cases for 20 years.
[3:36:32] And it's not due to flock.
[3:36:35] [applause] So, I don't think we can
attribute
[3:36:36] it to flock.
[3:36:37] [applause]
[3:36:42] And there there is too the idea that
this is these are being
[3:36:44] purchased with um,
[3:36:46] uh drug forfeiture funds.
[3:36:49] I feel like this the flock company
must know that this is a huge
[3:36:53] pot of money nationwide.
[3:36:56] [laughter]
[3:36:57] And this is a great way to burn off
some money that we are
[3:37:00] very unfairly restricted from
spending elsewhere.
[3:37:05] The money that we spend on flock that
comes out of this law enforcement
[3:37:09] forfeiture fund,
[3:37:12] we can't spend it on new officers.
[3:37:13] We can't spend it on in some cases
better equipment.
[3:37:17] We can't replace equipment.
[3:37:19] There's all kinds of restrictions on
this and places that I would
[3:37:22] rather spend the flock money.
[3:37:26] But, you know, we're handcuffed and
it would be nice if some of those
[3:37:29] handcuffs were taken off.
[3:37:31] [laughter]
[3:37:33] Um, and that again, that's something
that has to occur
[3:37:36] at the federal level, that's not
going to get solved
[3:37:38] in City Hall tonight.
[3:37:40] But I also feel like, you know,
whoever's running this company
[3:37:43] knows that this qualifies under
[3:37:47] uh, LEF funds.
[3:37:49] So, let's go rush this thing out
there.
[3:37:52] And that's part of the problem really
in the slides too
[3:37:55] and the YouTube presentation that I'm
going to call up
[3:37:58] and give the address to
[3:38:00] is that this is like beta level and
the whole idea was to just
[3:38:03] get it out quick and get paid.
[3:38:08] So that's where a lot of these
problems are.
[3:38:10] And unfortunately, when I voted for
this, I didn't know any of that.
[3:38:15] I've come to learn it and I've come
to regret my vote.
[3:38:18] [applause]
[3:38:19] But, you know, it we had to, we had
to kind of get to a critical mass
here.
[3:38:22] I I mean, I did, you know, I hope I
can get backed up.
[3:38:26] Some of the people who I think
brought everybody down here,
[3:38:28] at least one of those people, I did
contact in advance
[3:38:31] when we had our study session,
[3:38:33] and I said, come to the study
session.
[3:38:35] Because I don't like this idea of
living in this uh,
[3:38:37] Fahrenheit 451, uh,
[3:38:40] 1984 type world.
[3:38:44] I use I used older references.
[3:38:47] I used older references than then
Canda used.
[3:38:50] [laughter]
[3:38:51] But I don't like that either. I don't
want to live in a world
[3:38:54] where I've got to worry about a drone
looking over my shoulder
[3:38:56] all the time.
[3:38:58] And I think this kind of leads to
that.
[3:39:00] So those are those are my concerns.
They're far higher and above
[3:39:03] anything at our local police.
[3:39:07] So,
[3:39:08] um, I guess that's what I have to say
about the presentation.
[3:39:12] Thank you.
[3:39:13] [applause]
Okay.
[3:39:14] [applause]
[3:39:19] just to uh clarify real quick just so
there is no
[3:39:21] misunderstanding.
[3:39:23] Uh, with McCollum County's uh use of
the 32 flock cameras.
[3:39:28] McColm County, a lot of our
communities in McColm County
[3:39:30] are townships.
[3:39:32] So you have Clinton Township,
Chesterville Township,
[3:39:34] McColm Township.
[3:39:35] Those are actually taking care of by
the McColm County
[3:39:38] Sheriff's department.
[3:39:40] So those they're not municipalities,
so those townships utilize the
[3:39:43] cameras based upon the county.
[3:39:47] None of them cities actually will
have the county flock cameras in
them.
[3:39:52] So I think it would be unique that if
the county wanted to put
[3:39:55] them in our city, I don't think that
would necessarily go.
[3:39:57] It's the townships that they are
servicing and providing the police
[3:40:00] service for.
[3:40:01] I agree with you.
[3:40:03] And in fact, when I learned how many
were in the county,
[3:40:06] I immediately thought this is going
to be everybody, every Township
that's
[3:40:08] patrolled and doesn't have an
established police department.
[3:40:11] Right, that's correct.
[3:40:12] But, having said that,
[3:40:14] if it's a county road and they own
the
[3:40:17] I don't think there's anything that
[3:40:20] stops them from putting the camera
up.
[3:40:22] So, all you out there that are here
[3:40:26] [applause]
[3:40:29] Yeah, I'm good.
[3:40:30] Mr. Rabel.
[3:40:33] Uh, thank you, Mayor.
[3:40:35] I think one of the points here.
[3:40:38] I, every, every sort of city, I
think,
[3:40:43] has its own makeup. And there's some
[3:40:46] towns that probably like this stuff,
[3:40:50] and there's some it doesn't, it that
[3:40:52] don't go for it, okay? I always
thought
[3:40:57] that, uh, when I first saw the
program,
[3:41:01] I, I learned everything really in the
[3:41:04] last two and a half weeks. I thought
[3:41:06] that this was a great thing. And one
[3:41:09] thing, um, it seems to me that
[3:41:11] chief's taken a little heat here, but
[3:41:15] it ain't that man's fault because
five
[3:41:15] of us placed votes to put these
things
[3:41:18] in, okay? 100%. So, he's a good man
[3:41:21] and if anyone's to blame right now,
[3:41:23] it would be us, okay? So, you're a
good
[3:41:25] [applause]
[3:41:26] [applause] So, I know you're sort of
[3:41:30] sitting up at the podium there and
you
[3:41:33] gotta take a little bit but we put
'em
[3:41:36] in. You did not, okay? So, um,
[3:41:38] to me people don't have to hit me
over
[3:41:42] the head, uh, too many times. I
[3:41:45] probably have taken a few too many.
[3:41:48] But I hear the words, you know,
[3:41:51] sabotage, hacks, you get viruses, AI,
[3:41:54] this stuff's not contained. And the,
[3:41:59] and the really the, the big point to
[3:42:02] me is, um, it's the common question,
[3:42:06] safety versus how much privacy will
you
[3:42:10] give up for it, okay? And to me it
[3:42:14] looks like, uh, people here like
their
[3:42:19] [applause] I get it.
[3:42:20] [applause]
[3:42:22] I think there, I think that part sort
[3:42:25] of been left out a little bit because
[3:42:30] it's really not about how much those
[3:42:32] cameras catch because when I first
[3:42:35] heard about it, my God, what a great
[3:42:39] tool to catch the bad guys. But then
[3:42:41] as we sort of got a little bit deeper
[3:42:43] into it, and people start looking at,
[3:42:46] well, we're, you know, there's some,
[3:42:49] there's some American rights that
[3:42:53] they're looking at giving up. And
[3:42:55] there's people that don't want to do
[3:42:57] it. They'll live with a little bit,
uh,
[3:43:00] less safety. And I, that's, that's
how
[3:43:03] it goes. So, um, I voted, uh, yes for
[3:43:09] this. Heck, I might even been the the
[3:43:12] guy that made the motion for it,
okay?
[3:43:13] But I learned as I went that, listen,
[3:43:18] this, this town ain't going for it.
[3:43:20] And, um, and there's, and there's
[3:43:22] plenty of towns that aren't going for
[3:43:24] it. And that's no fault of yours,
[3:43:27] okay? That's five people's up here's
[3:43:31] fault who are there to vote for it.
[3:43:34] So, you misuse hacks, like
[3:43:37] everything else it seems that, you
[3:43:39] know, you might have something good
you
[3:43:42] thought and then it gets it, it you
[3:43:45] lose it, it gets out of control. And
[3:43:49] it turns into a bad thing, much like
[3:43:54] the the internet or something like
[3:43:58] that. It's a great tool for for
[3:44:01] research and history, but then some
[3:44:04] people don't use it, uh, the right
[3:44:06] way. So, I don't want to keep going
[3:44:10] with it. But I get it. It took me and
[3:44:15] I've had conversations with some
people
[3:44:19] up here. I thought it was a great,
[3:44:21] great crime fighting tool. But it
looks
[3:44:25] like it's gone sideways and so many
[3:44:27] cases. I don't, I'm not going to
[3:44:31] rehash them all, but um, you know,
[3:44:34] [laughter, applause]
Yeah.
[3:44:36] big government, it's all the sort of
[3:44:38] the things that people talk about.
And
[3:44:40] that's the world we live in right now
[3:44:45] and, uh, people want their privacy, I
[3:44:50] guess, more than their than, you
know,
[3:44:53] what they think, uh, a safety camera
[3:44:54] can do for them. So that's sort of
[3:44:59] where I stand. If I could, you know,
[3:45:02] I, I would air on the side of
covering
[3:45:04] the things up right now or or
[3:45:06] trashing them or whatever you do.
[3:45:07] Um, thanks, Mayor. So, yeah, I did, I
[3:45:11] did vote for it. And, uh,
[3:45:13] I do want uh more information.
[3:45:16] And I know it's good theater to say
that,
[3:45:19] you know, the flock salesman will
come down
[3:45:21] and we can beat him up and all that,
[3:45:23] but at the end of the day,
[3:45:25] I want the tech guy here.
[3:45:26] I want to know what these guys are
doing, what the long-term strategy is
for that company.
[3:45:31] I want way more information.
[3:45:33] This might hang on. This might
actually
[3:45:35] get stuff out in the open.
[3:45:38] I think St. Clair Shores one of those
[3:45:40] towns that says, hey, look,
[3:45:42] we got more information from them.
[3:45:45] And it was good or it was bad, I'm
not even sure.
[3:45:48] Uh, I'm not 100% convinced that uh,
[3:45:52] that, you know, the, you know, where
do we draw the line
[3:45:54] for the safety
[3:45:57] versus, you know, rights.
[3:45:59] I I know we've got I I know it
happens
[3:46:01] and I appreciate all of you folks
[3:46:03] coming here tonight and and voicing
your opinion.
[3:46:06] But we do know that, you know, you
[3:46:08] you don't there's a lot of people
aren't going to show up and go,
[3:46:11] oh, we want to keep the canvas.
[3:46:12] Right? That's just not how this
works.
[3:46:14] We've been up here I've been up here
a long time, and seen it many times.
[3:46:18] But at the end of the day,
[3:46:20] I think we'd we need a lot more
information.
[3:46:23] Um, I know, you know, you know,
[3:46:25] I know a lot of our guys that are
[3:46:27] and gals that are out there doing
doing the on the job every day.
[3:46:31] You've been awesome. They're awesome.
[3:46:33] We've had no problems in our in our
house at all.
[3:46:37] But like like Dave and and many
people said here, we, you know,
[3:46:40] we have no control over anybody else.
[3:46:42] So, how do we how do we get control?
[3:46:46] How do we get beyond that?
[3:46:48] How do we how do we take the next
step?
[3:46:50] And if it means taking them down or
covering them up or whatever,
[3:46:54] then I'm I'm okay with that too.
[3:46:55] But I want to I want more
information.
[3:46:58] If there's a way we can get the tech
guy here or or the CEO or somebody.
[3:47:02] [laughter]
[3:47:03] Somebody that's on that.
[3:47:06] Some somebody that
[3:47:07] So it's so it's not it's not Fox 2
here or or whatever,
[3:47:11] It you know, maybe it's may maybe
it's
[3:47:14] Fox National or CNN or somebody like
that.
[3:47:17] It's a it's a bigger thing to ask
those folks the questions
[3:47:21] and have them lie on camera if that's
what you think they're going to do,
[3:47:25] then it is for them to not come at
all because we think it'll be funny,
right?
[3:47:30] So, I guess I want more information.
[3:47:33] I want I want to take that part to
the next step.
[3:47:35] And then and then let's see what
happens.
[3:47:38] So, what what I hear here is that
from a
[3:47:42] number is that we we cover them
immediately.
[3:47:46] Uh, we we cover we cover them.
[3:47:48] [applause]
[3:47:55] We we
[3:47:58] We I I think we need to put a time
frame
[3:48:01] so that so everyone knows that we
[3:48:03] we cover them for at least I think
[3:48:04] you got to cover them for six months.
[3:48:06] I think you got to cover up rights,
[3:48:07] there's there's time so that everyone
knows that these are these are on
here
[3:48:10] for at least six months,
[3:48:12] which is, you know, we'll pick a
meeting in March, right, that we
[3:48:15] would put it this back on the agenda
[3:48:17] and they cannot be removed till it
comes back to an agenda item here,
[3:48:20] like we have here.
[3:48:22] We could then make the next decision
[3:48:25] whether it's to continue to keep
cover them, take them all down
[3:48:27] or, you know, use flock. I don't
know, right?
[3:48:29] But I I think that's a thought that
we would we we would do.
[3:48:33] Six six months must be back.
[3:48:35] Can't take can't take the bags off
till
[3:48:37] they comes to to a next council
meeting
[3:48:39] with an agenda item that can't be
removed.
[3:48:43] that's a directive we can give and
and Miss Burgess.
[3:48:47] [applause]
[3:49:07] I would like to add, though, during
that six months, we will do
[3:49:11] investigation, we'll, for sure.
[3:49:14] you know, do our due diligence.
[3:49:15] So we're not just waiting till March
and no.
[3:49:18] No, there's there's I just wanted to
make sure that they knew that.
[3:49:26] We we are we that here
[3:49:28] Miss said about investigation.
[3:49:30] Mr. F, you'll have your chance
[3:49:32] under audience under under audience
participation.
[3:49:37] So, are we good with that directive,
yes?
[3:49:38] Uh, Chief and Mr. Lent, are we we
good?
[3:49:41] of this body here? I mean, that's
what, yeah.
[3:49:46] let's let's make it the second
meeting in March.
[3:49:48] So that we're that we all understand
[3:49:52] the date, which is 2026.
[3:49:54] 2027, 27.
[3:49:56] 27.
[3:50:00] Teak, thank you. Okay, thank you.
[3:50:03] [laughter]
[3:50:06] Uh, number item item item 11 is uh
comments by individual council
members.
[3:50:11] uh, Mr. Rebel.
[3:50:14] Hello, Bonnie.
[3:50:16] [laughter]
I don't wanna do it. It's good.
[3:50:18] Thank you, Mr. Mayor.
[3:50:20] You're you're done. Headquartered 11.
[3:50:23] All right, we will move on.
[3:50:25] Mark that down. Yes, I'm Mark that
down. Mark that down.
[3:50:30] Miss Rooney.
[3:50:31] Uh, just a quick thank you to
everybody for the Apple pie.
[3:50:34] we get the senior center. It's a big
fundraiser for the meal program.
[3:50:38] Uh first off, thank you to all the
purchasers who helped make this
[3:50:41] program successful.
[3:50:42] and especially a big thank you to the
staff and all the volunteers
[3:50:45] who spend a week peeling, coring,
slicing apples, baking
[3:50:48] over a thousand pies.
[3:50:51] And uh again, this is a big
fundraiser for the meal program
[3:50:53] at the senior center.
[3:50:55] Uh, I was there every single day.
[3:50:58] I worked beside people who are also
there every single day.
[3:51:00] Dave was there I think three or four
days.
[3:51:02] just peeling, slicing,
[3:51:04] like over, like what was it, like a
hundred bushels of apples.
[3:51:07] It was a lot and uh
[3:51:09] it's all over, pies were delicious,
it was successful
[3:51:11] and it helps subsidize the meal
program to provide seniors with
[3:51:15] hot lunches in uh at the center.
[3:51:17] so, thank you to everybody for that.
[3:51:19] I have one sec. Thank you.
[3:51:20] [applause]
[3:51:23] Thank you. Because I won't have a
chance to probably ever do this
[3:51:25] again, but
[3:51:29] It's September 4th, 21st.
[3:51:32] Body, uh, I don't know if you guys
know what that would insinuate.
[3:51:36] The 21st night of September.
[3:51:38] I'll pick it up for you, Dave. I know
what you mean. All right.
[3:51:40] Uh, Mr. Keren.
[3:51:43] I'm trying to recover from whatever
that comment was.
[3:51:46] [laughter]
[3:51:49] Do you remember?
[3:51:51] That's so Alexander Street.
[3:51:53] I know that is slated for uhm, the
road paving to begin
[3:51:56] within a couple of weeks.
[3:51:58] I did get a concern from the
resident.
[3:52:01] Uhm, normally a street repair or
street replacement, we do one lane
[3:52:04] on one side then we come back and do
the other lane.
[3:52:08] This one in accordance from the email
I got from uh Nancy
[3:52:12] Engineering this morning.
[3:52:14] Uh, we're doing both sides at once
[3:52:16] in the attempt to get it done
quicker.
[3:52:19] full width paving so that way it gets
done, cured within seven days,
[3:52:24] and people can begin to drive on it
again.
[3:52:26] But that will be more inconvenient
for the resident.
[3:52:29] So, ask you to, you know, I believe a
letter went out to the residents
[3:52:34] telling them the restrictions of what
the full width paving will mean.
[3:52:39] Okay. Okay.
[3:52:41] So,
[3:52:43] We may want to deliver, so they're
delivered in August.
[3:52:46] but we may want to deliver them
again, just so the people are aware.
[3:52:49] Uhm, and also to make sure if there's
anybody that has mobility issues,
[3:52:53] uhm, that they are being taken care
of.
[3:52:55] that their neighbors are aware, where
they're at and can help out.
[3:52:59] Uhm, I know one of the gentlemen that
was here at the town hall
[3:53:01] we did back in May, they did say yet
a neighbor that would need help
[3:53:03] for things like that.
[3:53:05] So, make sure that handsy reaches out
to everybody to understand
[3:53:09] if there's any potential concern
anywhere in that street.
[3:53:12] And that since that's typically not
what we do.
[3:53:15] All right. Uhm, next in terms of the
uh muck cleanup.
[3:53:20] want to thank Representative St.
Germain for uh, anyone speaking
[3:53:23] earlier, but also staying for the
entire meeting.
[3:53:26] Uhm, Yes, you got so many.
[3:53:30] You you actually got more assignments
out of this meeting than we did.
[3:53:32] Amazingly.
[3:53:34] Uhm, but to your muck cleaner.
[3:53:36] since I'm currently going through the
permitting process for that
[3:53:39] with both Eagle and Army Corps,
[3:53:42] uhm, once I get through it, once I
actually get the permits,
[3:53:45] I'm going to have so many suggestions
for you.
[3:53:46] in that for that bill.
[3:53:47] So, uhm, hang on for that.
[3:53:50] And last thing,
[3:53:51] Uhm, sent an email a couple of weeks
ago regarding the trash
[3:53:55] capture device that was installed
[3:53:57] on the Stevens drain that the city is
responsible for uh or agreed
[3:54:01] to be responsible for retrieving the
trash.
[3:54:04] And I asked for a plan for when that
would be done.
[3:54:08] and did not get a reply back on that
one.
[3:54:11] But basically my observations of it
after every storm that gets a
[3:54:14] half inch, there's enough flow out of
that drain where it will push
[3:54:17] trash and get captured.
[3:54:20] Uhm, so we just got to set up a
timetable of when DPW will go down
[3:54:23] to retrieve that.
[3:54:27] Brian's not here, but I know that I
think him and Jeff and Russ were
[3:54:30] We're working on that, we're working
on a capture plan. Yes.
[3:54:33] Okay. All right. And that's it. Thank
you.
[3:54:39] Mr. Farrow, I'm gonna step out for
one second.
[3:54:40] Do after you're done, you can keep.
Okay. We'll keep it going. All right.
[3:54:44] Thanks, Mayor.
[3:54:44] You stay in there because I'm I'm the
official Mayor Pro Tem
[3:54:46] right now, so.
[3:54:48] I'll give the gabel too. [laughter]
[3:54:51] Uhm, I've only got two very short
things.
[3:54:53] Uh the first one is I usually give a
library uh
[3:54:55] announcement and the announcement is
[3:54:57] the library is going to be open on
Saturday, right? So.
[3:55:01] [applause]
[3:55:03] Next Saturday. Next Saturday.
[3:55:06] Next Saturday. Not this Saturday.
[3:55:08] take any of that back. Next Saturday.
[3:55:10] It's in October, October.
[3:55:14] So, but that's the exciting thing.
[3:55:15] It it's been light at the end of the
tunnel.
[3:55:18] Uh, new new genealogy department in
there. We got Maker space,
[3:55:22] kids, teens.
[3:55:23] It's all it looks so good. Uh, Can I
[3:55:26] and and our city manager, we're on
we're on the on the committee that
[3:55:30] uh worked on this.
[3:55:31] And uh, you know, a lot of bumps in
the road, but my God, we got it
through.
[3:55:35] And we also want to thank the state.
[3:55:37] Uh, I know uh, Alicia, you and and
Maizong and all that got us uh a
[3:55:42] half a million dollars to help with
the library.
[3:55:44] See, this this is why we we do these
studies and things like that
[3:55:48] so that we can call them and go, by
the way, look, we do need it.
[3:55:51] because somebody figured it out that
we needed it.
[3:55:53] So, thank you everybody that that
participated in that.
[3:55:55] And then the last thing is, uh,
[3:55:58] I got a note from um our folks at the
Fire Department.
[3:56:02] that says uh St. Clair Shores Fire
Department, Fire Prevention Week
[3:56:06] open house, celebrating our 99th
anniversary.
[3:56:09] 99 years. We have to give them
another proclamation next year.
[3:56:13] Um, Central Fire Station, everybody
knows where that is.
[3:56:16] 27600 Harper Avenue is also going to
be open October 3rd for
[3:56:20] an open house, 11:00 a.m. to 3:00
p.m.
[3:56:23] Uh, tons of fire safety information
and more. There'll be
[3:56:26] a lot of stuff for the kids.
[3:56:27] Refreshments, you get to walk through
the place.
[3:56:29] And it is, if you haven't gone
through it yet, it's worth the trip.
[3:56:34] This is this is state of the art.
[3:56:36] Uh, I give my buddy here, Mr. Vitaly
credit for coming up with
[3:56:41] the Hazmet, the Hazmat showers.
[3:56:43] And Dave too, to make sure that when
they go to a flyer and they
[3:56:46] come back, they can they can get all
those carcinogens off of them.
[3:56:49] My kid's a firefighter.
[3:56:51] He's jawing in my ear a lot about
this stuff.
[3:56:53] So, I appreciate you taking care of
our guys and and gals.
[3:56:56] And by the way, the two separate
lacrooms.
[3:56:58] How nice that that'll be for them,
right?
[3:57:02] And then uh and that also is going to
be the refreshments are
[3:57:05] going to be provided by the Union,
Fire Fighter's Union number 1744,
[3:57:10] and they're celebrating their 59th
anniversary.
[3:57:13] So that's all I have. Mr. Vitali,
you're next. What have you got?
[3:57:17] Um, well, while the Assistant City
manager slowly boots up the
[3:57:21] PowerPoints dot.
[3:57:22] I'm I'm going to just acknowledge
because I know Dave is dying over
here.
[3:57:25] 21st of September, Earthwind and
Fire.
[3:57:29] The chorus was come up with by a St.
Clair Shores resident.
[3:57:36] What's your St. Clair Shores
connection?
[3:57:40] She had a St. Clair Shores
connection?
[3:57:43] Ali Willis lived in here. Yes.
[3:57:46] Okay. Good enough. All right, let's
move on.
[3:57:49] Do you remember Do you remember this
every 21st well, I guess
[3:57:52] not every 21st of September, but
[3:57:54] All right, so, you know, this is the
result of a little bit of
[3:57:58] flock research I did.
[3:57:58] I'll be honest with you, I found
[3:58:01] probably I watch a lot of these
videos.
[3:58:03] I found probably the best video on
this.
[3:58:05] That is just full of questions.
[3:58:07] And if you want to Google it, it's we
we hacked Flock AT&T
[3:58:11] camera in under 30 seconds.
[3:58:13] Put that in YouTube.
[3:58:15] Because that's a really deep dive in
it
[3:58:17] and some of the things that were done
with this.
[3:58:20] I can only assume that, you know,
he's got congressmen and Senate
[3:58:23] people that are interested in this.
[3:58:26] Um, and and even one of those things
is that,
[3:58:29] in one of the I think Carlton, Texas,
they were able to actually
[3:58:32] go in hack into the actual police
database, pull up where
[3:58:37] the patrol cars were because they
have GPS on them.
[3:58:41] And then actually get the officer's
identities and their addresses
[3:58:44] and everything too.
[3:58:46] So, this appears to be a very
hackable system.
[3:58:50] And and some of the things the
security experts talk about is
[3:58:53] that they can't believe how
vulnerable this thing is.
[3:58:55] That it the so-called two two-factor
authentication is
[3:59:00] pretty primitive actually that you
can just sit there with a Wi-Fi
[3:59:05] antenna and get that.
[3:59:07] There are much higher levels of
security.
[3:59:09] I know that from a bank account I
have, I actually have to have a
[3:59:13] like a chip transponder in order to
be able to pull money out of
[3:59:15] that account.
[3:59:17] And they don't even have that for
this flock flock identification.
[3:59:22] But I also want to just count on this
quite honestly, from a
[3:59:25] return on investment standpoint. So
you go to the next slide.
[3:59:29] I mean, these are these are met this
is Detroit City property
[3:59:33] homicide rates, which are actually
now where they were at in the 60s.
[3:59:41] And the smaller chart in there is
actually um gunshot.
[3:59:47] So everything's way down.
[3:59:48] And they're a neighboring community,
so that's important to us.
[3:59:52] You go to the next one, please.
[3:59:54] And this is this is St. Clair Shores
homicides.
[3:59:57] And that is a what is that? Goes from
2003 to 26.
[4:00:01] And we've never gone above one, and
there's a lot of space in those.
[4:00:06] So, we're pretty safe community when
it comes to that.
[4:00:09] If you can go to the next one.
[4:00:12] motor vehicle theft. And for this
one, I went back to 203.
[4:00:15] You see where it was.
[4:00:17] And you see where the trend is.
[4:00:19] And when you actually get down to
like the last couple years,
[4:00:21] it doesn't really get above like
four, five.
[4:00:25] Now, there is a spike in there that I
circled.
[4:00:29] That's the Kia, boys.
[4:00:30] [laughter]
[4:00:31] It's when everybody figured out how
to hack the Kia,
[4:00:33] ignition to that's what that's.
[4:00:35] That's nationwide, that's every
community.
[4:00:38] You can go to the next one.
[4:00:40] [laughter]
[4:00:41] Um, this is robbery reports, St.
Clair Shores.
[4:00:45] I mean, 2008 was was probably the
dangerous time here.
[4:00:49] But, you know, that goes down
[4:00:51] and, you know, if you want to look at
these, they all came from FBI.
[4:00:54] The FBI breaks it down all the way
down to community.
[4:00:57] Um, so, pretty good database there.
[4:01:00] And this is kind of what I was saying
is that, you know,
[4:01:03] if the DPW were coming in front of us
and we suddenly got so much
[4:01:06] uh climate change, that we weren't
getting snow anymore,
[4:01:10] and they wanted to buy a fleet of
snow plow, we would be like,
[4:01:13] what, what? We haven't had snow in
four years now.
[4:01:16] Why do we need to renew all these
snow?
[4:01:18] Well, I kind of feel like this. We're
on a nice downward trend.
[4:01:21] And honestly, to preserve our fourth
Amendment,
[4:01:24] I'm willing to live with 2024 levels
of safety.
[4:01:27] [applause]
[4:01:31] Just don't see it.
[4:01:33] I'd rather spend the money elsewhere.
[4:01:36] Unfortunately, I I again, our hands
are kind of tied on how
[4:01:38] many things they can be spent on.
[4:01:40] But I definitely think there's better
returns on investment.
[4:01:44] And I think that's why flock released
what is a fairly hackable
[4:01:47] system if I can believe everything in
that YouTube video,
[4:01:51] which to jump in, get that money, and
they're already offering
[4:01:55] people buyouts, and a year from now
they might not be in business.
[4:01:59] Now, that's not to say that Aan or
some other company won't take
[4:02:03] their place. I expect that will
happen.
[4:02:05] But I would also say to the city
attorney,
[4:02:07] please look into our legal remedies
regarding that contract.
[4:02:12] Because I would just assume not pay
it, drag it out, and then the
[4:02:17] entity that used to be flock and try
to collect.
[4:02:21] [laughter]
[4:02:23] I think that's a pretty real
possibility.
[4:02:26] [applause]
[4:02:27] So, all right, we can go to the the
next one.
[4:02:30] Oh, and this is this is essentially
Larceny. This is shoplifting.
[4:02:36] So, I I mean, look the bad old days
of 1985.
[4:02:41] When I was a kid, roam the streets,
peddle my bike everywhere in
[4:02:45] St. Clair Shores and look how much
more crime was going on around me.
[4:02:49] [laughter]
[4:02:52] I didn't catch that. That was it me.
[4:02:55] No, I'm not responsible for for all
that.
[4:03:01] Anyway, so, you know, I just wanted
to give sort of a a sense
[4:03:04] of scale on this.
[4:03:05] And I also want to say this too,
that, you know,
[4:03:08] there were a few points where I I
felt people were being a little
[4:03:11] hard on the chief there.
[4:03:12] And and Dave said it best, we're the
ones who did it.
[4:03:15] He's got to defend a system that we
voted for.
[4:03:18] So, that that's his job.
[4:03:20] Just like it's the city's attorney's
job to defend
[4:03:22] us all the time.
[4:03:24] So you please do understand that.
[4:03:26] I'm glad that so many people did show
up to the meeting,
[4:03:30] because this is democracy and action.
[4:03:33] And I will tell you right now, the
same thing that I told the
[4:03:35] two gentlemen over breakfast
[4:03:37] that are here and I think probably
got a lot of you to come down,
[4:03:40] is that I did not think the mass was
there to get rid of these.
[4:03:45] I was in favor of some guard rails
and some guidelines and some
[4:03:48] further handcuffing of it,
[4:03:50] but I said pragmatically, I you're
not going to convince the council.
[4:03:54] Well, you want to know who convinced
the council? You all
[4:03:56] convinced the council.
[4:03:58] [applause]
[4:04:01] So, now I would tell you this,
[4:04:04] go to County Commissioner meetings.
[4:04:07] Go to Sterling Heights City Council
meetings.
[4:04:10] Go to some of the other because you
can't let off with this
[4:04:13] just because you got us.
[4:04:16] So, and and of course, we are going
to revisit this, and but I
[4:04:20] think we'll be very aware of it going
further and I won't belabor
[4:04:22] it further.
[4:04:24] Uh, next one, please.
[4:04:26] Okay. Uh, this was for Denise. We
already talked about this.
[4:04:29] We license landscapers and we let 'em
do jobs like this.
[4:04:32] This cannot go on. All this garbage
ends up into the storm
[4:04:35] drains, which clogs it,
[4:04:38] flows out to the flows off to the
lake.
[4:04:40] We cannot allow people to do this.
[4:04:43] [applause]
[4:04:46] So, kind of on a related note, can
you go to the next one, please?
[4:04:49] So, everybody's clapping.
[4:04:51] The next St. Clair Shores I 94 ramp
clean up
[4:04:54] will be Saturday, October 10th at
10:00 a.m.
[4:04:58] that great group of volunteers goes
out, puts on the yellow vest,
[4:05:02] picks up all the psychopath litter
that people throw out the window
there.
[4:05:06] Um, we gather that up.
[4:05:08] Try to keep those inner keep those uh
freeway ramps looking clean and
[4:05:12] and we'll be sure that we leave the
bags alone
[4:05:14] on the cameras while we're out there.
[4:05:16] Um, and then one more after that.
[4:05:20] I also wanted to mention because this
came up on Facebook,
[4:05:22] just to let everybody know.
[4:05:24] the last long Monday where you can go
to DPW
[4:05:27] and drop off broken concrete,
masonry,
[4:05:31] stuff, get rid of junk like that,
[4:05:33] uh or just a a big load of trash out
of your pickup
[4:05:36] and shove it in the compactor.
[4:05:38] Your last chance on that is going to
be Monday, October
[4:05:42] 12th, or you have to sit on it till
April.
[4:05:45] So, that was all I had for tonight.
[4:05:48] Thank you. Ms. Burges.
[4:05:50] First of all, I want to thank you all
for showing up.
[4:05:53] Um, I appreciate the things that
people said,
[4:05:57] and I will let you know that I had
some long talks with
[4:05:59] people that were for flock.
[4:06:02] And I invited every last one of them
to come here.
[4:06:07] just wanted to put that out there
that um thank you for
[4:06:09] those that did show up.
[4:06:12] Uh, and for the letters and the
emails,
[4:06:14] and the emails,
[4:06:16] and the emails that I received on the
subject.
[4:06:20] But I thank you that you you came and
like, uh, Chris said,
[4:06:23] um, democracy and action here.
[4:06:27] Uh, with all that though, I'm going
to say I was really
[4:06:29] excited about all the proclamations
we had today.
[4:06:31] There are so many anniversaries,
things happening in our city,
[4:06:34] things that we need to be proud of in
our city,
[4:06:37] and congratulations to our
beautification winners, uh,
[4:06:41] what a wonderful display of, um,
beautiful yards and, um,
[4:06:47] there are so many that were nominated
that didn't win,
[4:06:49] but they they were just as beautiful.
[4:06:52] So, congratulations to all of them.
[4:06:55] Um, I got my
[4:06:56] Um, our Shortober Fest is going to be
October 3rd,
[4:07:01] same day as the police and fire and
library open house.
[4:07:06] So when you're done with all the open
house, go home,
[4:07:09] take a nap, and come back to the
Shortober Fest.
[4:07:13] Okay, there's going to be live music,
the Kabasa Kings
[4:07:15] from 6:00 to 10:00 p.m.
[4:07:18] We got beer sales which are locked
St. Clair Shores, um,
[4:07:22] Kwans Group is taking care of for us.
[4:07:25] German food is available for
purchase.
[4:07:27] We're going to have cranks catering
in there, and they're
[4:07:29] going to have a great menu for you.
[4:07:31] We're going to have a Stein holding
contest
[4:07:33] for men and women.
[4:07:34] Costume contest, and uh a cornhole
tournament.
[4:07:38] So, you will not want to miss this.
[4:07:41] It's October 3rd, and it starts at
5:00 p.m.
[4:07:44] to 10:00 p.m.
[4:07:48] Uh, and uh, that's it for that.
[4:07:51] Uh, we just had our uh St. Isaac
Jog's Harvest Festival
[4:07:53] this last weekend. It was phenomenal.
[4:07:56] even though we were raining a lot.
[4:07:59] We still had a great time and we
thank you everybody for
[4:08:02] coming out and helping to uh help our
school
[4:08:06] uh with needed funds.
[4:08:08] Uh, this Saturday is also district.
Music's Main Street
[4:08:10] drive.
[4:08:13] Main Street drive, sorry.
[4:08:15] I have that down in here too.
[4:08:17] Uh, and then we only have two left.
[4:08:19] We have October 10th and Octo October
24th.
[4:08:22] October 10th is going to be
bandwagon.
[4:08:24] October 24th is paper covers rock.
[4:08:27] And this Saturday, uh the next, I'm
sorry, Sunday, this Sunday
[4:08:30] is our Farmers Market
[4:08:32] downtown uh St. Clair Shores right
there from 9:00 to 2:00.
[4:08:37] And last time I went, I was like,
wow, this really is a
[4:08:40] Farmers Market because there was
actually a lot
[4:08:42] being sold of fruits and vegetables,
[4:08:46] and um, it was really great.
[4:08:48] Don't miss it. A lot of um, people
have vendors there,
[4:08:50] so it'll be a lot of fun.
[4:08:52] And um, thank you for the cleanup
mention
[4:08:55] because I had that down on here.
[4:08:57] Uh, that's my group and I Sharon's
over there.
[4:09:01] Um, and uh, just want to thank
everybody again for being here.
[4:09:03] That's it for me.
[4:09:05] Thank you. City manager report.
[4:09:06] Uh, as Ron had mentioned, we have the
open house at the
[4:09:08] fire station, but that open house is
actually
[4:09:11] three open houses as one.
[4:09:14] It is the fire station, it is the new
police building,
[4:09:16] and it is the library.
[4:09:19] So we are also going to be have our
smart buses run
[4:09:21] from the City Hall complex to take
individuals to the
[4:09:24] fire station. There's not a lot of
parking over there.
[4:09:27] But as Ron had said, they are going
to have different kind
[4:09:29] of food and different kind of stuff
set up.
[4:09:32] The police are not in the new police
station yet,
[4:09:33] but it is going to be moving in very
shortly,
[4:09:36] but before they get them move in and
all the officers
[4:09:39] and then you actually have officers
work,
[4:09:40] we are having that open house for all
of our residents
[4:09:42] to be able to come in and see two
magnificent buildings
[4:09:46] that will be here for generations to
come.
[4:09:48] Um, and then also, as we had
mentioned too with the library,
[4:09:51] we did get, you know, kind of
delayed,
[4:09:53] but that's because that library
building started off as a
[4:09:55] children's renovation, but ended up
changing into an
[4:09:58] entire building renovation.
[4:10:01] So it is beautiful inside.
[4:10:03] So it is a huge asset to our
community.
[4:10:06] So please come out and check out our
three buildings uh,
[4:10:09] this sorry, October.
[4:10:12] for third on Saturday.
[4:10:13] Thank you.
[4:10:14] Uh, item 13. Audie's participation
[4:10:17] get five-minute time limit.
[4:10:18] Uh, we just need your name
[4:10:20] in the city you reside in
[4:10:21] and then if you don't mind, please
sign up, sign in after that.
[4:10:26] Uh, okay.
[4:10:27] Uh, yes, sir.
[4:10:29] You know, I had a five minutes. I'm
there with condition saying all
shores.
[4:10:32] Thank you.
[4:10:32] I had a full five minutes for you
guys.
[4:10:34] I mean, you guys are missing some
good facts and figures here.
[4:10:36] [laughter]
[4:10:38] Um, I just want to say to all of you
who took my calls last couple
[4:10:42] three, four weeks, my emails.
[4:10:44] I really felt listened to on this
issue. Like I really did.
[4:10:47] Um, and it's a credit to you guys. I
seriously really appreciate it.
[4:10:52] I like a month ago was like, you
know, seeing all the flock stuff
[4:10:55] and seeing them everywhere in our
city.
[4:10:57] And I just for me personally, like I
have two little kids.
[4:11:01] I don't want them grown up in a city
with mass surveillance.
[4:11:06] And I, you know, things getting done
in cities is really hard,
[4:11:09] takes a long time.
[4:11:10] Um, but I just want to say to every
person that showed up,
[4:11:13] like seriously, every person.
[4:11:14] And especially the first couple from
some of our senior residents.
[4:11:17] We get the best seniors ever.
[4:11:18] who did just the most amazing job.
Like I'm so proud all you.
[4:11:22] [applause]
[4:11:23] And uh, I won't belabor the point,
[4:11:25] I'm just so thankful today what you
guys are doing.
[4:11:28] I just want to take a such a quick
story.
[4:11:31] In my neighborhood, I live on
Lakeland Street,
[4:11:33] like two years ago we had this girl
who I was, me and my dad,
[4:11:36] we four houses down from each other,
have senior residents who are in this
city.
[4:11:40] We, we just we didn't know, but we
were both watching this girl get
ripped out
[4:11:44] of a car and helicopter to the floor.
I mean, it was horrible.
[4:11:47] And me and my dad run after the guy.
[4:11:49] And then four other neighbors came
out and ran after the guy.
[4:11:51] And then all the other neighbors came
out and helped this girl.
[4:11:54] And that is why you don't need flock
cameras in this city.
[4:11:58] We have people that care.
[4:11:59] We have the best seniors who are the
best security for your neighborhoods
[4:12:02] you will ever get.
[4:12:03] Like they are watching, and thank God
for our awesome seniors.
[4:12:06] Um, so I just want to say thank you
so I just want to say thank you so
much for doing this for, for putting
a pause.
[4:12:10] I do want to say though that
[4:12:12] I hope the pause isn't a delay
because we will be back in March.
[4:12:16] to finally put the nail in this
coffin.
[4:12:18] for Flock
[4:12:21] Um, and I just, I'm so thankful
today.
[4:12:23] It means a lot.
[4:12:24] I hope you guys all have an awesome
night.
[4:12:25] And uh, I've seen, I've watched a lot
of meetings.
[4:12:26] I watch like every meeting.
[4:12:28] Man, that's uh, this is might be a
record.
[4:12:30] I don't know if it is.
[4:12:31] [Laughter] Oh, it's not.
[4:12:32] Oh, some of the budget meetings were
long.
[4:12:34] The the budget meetings are painfully
long,
[4:12:36] but um, still this was so worth it.
[4:12:38] Thank you everybody, I appreciate you
guys.
[4:12:39] Sign in please.
[4:12:40] Oh, yeah.
[4:12:41] Oh, okay. I don't know.
[4:12:42] Thank you.
[4:12:43] [applause]
[4:12:45] Hello.
[4:12:47] Uh, my name is Kristen Schmidt. Uh, I
live a resident here
[4:12:50] in St. Clair Shores.
[4:12:51] Yes.
[4:12:53] I do have a whole thing prepared
here,
[4:12:55] and I waited it out, and I'm just
going to do it for I guess for food
for thought
[4:12:58] even though I do appreciate you guys
pausing it for the next six months.
[4:13:02] So I guess just take these things
into consideration please.
[4:13:06] Um, one, I was really frustrated that
everybody just keeps calling it
[4:13:09] a license plate reader.
[4:13:11] Please stop describing Flock as just
a license plate reader,
[4:13:14] that description is incomplete and it
understates what is at stake.
[4:13:17] Flock's own documentation says its
system collects not only
[4:13:20] license plate characters but vehicle
images, vehicle characteristics,
[4:13:23] location data, time stamps and other
metadata.
[4:13:27] Flock describes its platform as
providing law enforcement with
[4:13:29] searchable digital evidence
[4:13:32] and investigative tools, that matters
[4:13:34] because the Constitution does not
become irrelevant simply because
[4:13:37] surveillance technology becomes more
sophisticated.
[4:13:40] The Supreme Court has repeatedly
recognized this problem.
[4:13:43] In United States v. Jones, the Court
considers government tracking of
[4:13:46] vehicle by GPS,
[4:13:47] the Court held that attaching the GPS
devices and using it to monitor the
[4:13:51] vehicle's movements, constituted a
Fourth Amendment search.
[4:13:56] Justice Alito, joined by three other
justices, separately emphasized
[4:13:59] something particularly important for
today's technology.
[4:14:02] Long-term monitoring can cross a
constitutional line because
[4:14:06] society does not reasonably expect
the government to secretly catalog
[4:14:10] every movement of a person's vehicle.
[4:14:13] Then came Carpenter v. United States.
[4:14:16] There the Supreme Court confronted a
different technology,
[4:14:18] historical cell site location
information.
[4:14:21] The government argued essentially
that people had no reasonable
expectation
[4:14:24] of privacy because the information
was held by a third party.
[4:14:28] The Court rejected that reasoning.
[4:14:30] It recognized the person's physical
movements can reveal an extraordinary
[4:14:34] amount about the person's life and
held the individuals retain
[4:14:37] a legitimate expectation of privacy
and certain records of their own
[4:14:40] physical movements.
[4:14:41] even when those records are held by
someone else.
[4:14:44] The Court specifically warned that
people do not surrender all Fourth
Amendment
[4:14:48] protections simply by entering public
spaces.
[4:14:50] That principle deserves serious
consideration here.
[4:14:54] Uh, sorry, I'll skip some of the
stuff because Candace, you mentioned
[4:14:58] quite a bit of it actually.
[4:15:00] Technology changes the nature of
surveillance.
[4:15:02] A police officer observing a car
drive past is one thing,
[4:15:04] a network of cameras creating a
searchable records of vehicles
[4:15:08] moving throughout a community is
something fundamentally different
[4:15:11] in scale and
[4:15:13] capability. And the Supreme Court has
told us that scale matters.
[4:15:16] The court's concern in Jones and
Carpenter was not simply
[4:15:20] whether one particular piece of
information was visible to the
public,
[4:15:24] the concern was what modern
technology makes possible when
[4:15:27] individual observations are
collected, retained, and
[4:15:30] assembled into a detailed record of
someone's movements.
[4:15:34] That is why we shouldn't ask can a
police officer legally see a license
plate.
[4:15:38] Of course they can.
[4:15:39] We should ask what happens when
thousands of observations are
[4:15:43] systematically collected, stored,
searched, and shared.
[4:15:45] That is the Civil Liberties question.
[4:15:48] And this is not merely theoretical.
Flock says customers control their
data
[4:15:51] and that searches are auditable.
[4:15:53] Those safeguards are worth
acknowledging, but safeguards
[4:15:55] are not the same thing as
constitutional protections.
[4:15:58] And audit and and audit logs do not
prevent government overreach.
[4:16:02] They merely create a record that
overreach occurred.
[4:16:06] I believe residents deserve clear
answers.
[4:16:07] Who can search this database?
[4:16:09] What constitutes a legitimate reason
to conduct a search?
[4:16:13] Can officers search for someone's
movements without that person
[4:16:15] being suspected of a crime?
[4:16:17] Which other agencies can access our
community's data?
[4:16:20] Can information collected here be
shared outside our jurisdiction?
[4:16:23] Who approves searches, who audits
them?
[4:16:25] How often does the council receive
those audit reports?
[4:16:29] And what happens when an officer
violates the rules?
[4:16:32] These are not anti-police questions,
they are constitutional questions.
[4:16:36] The Fourth Amendment was written
precisely because the government has
enormous power
[4:16:40] and because individual liberty
requires boundaries on that power.
[4:16:44] When technology allows the government
to collect, retain, reconstruct, and
search
[4:16:49] people's movements on a scale that
would have been extraordinarily
[4:16:51] difficult, excuse me, extraordinarily
difficult or practically impossible
in the past,
[4:16:56] constitutional protections deserve
careful attention.
[4:16:59] Our city should not wait for a court
to tell us where the
[4:17:02] Constitution boundary is.
[4:17:03] We should establish strong
protections before the system becomes
entrenched.
[4:17:08] If this council believes Flock is
necessary for public safety, then
[4:17:11] prove that necessity transparently.
[4:17:14] Because once a government builds the
capability to track movements
retrospectively,
[4:17:17] the question isn't simply what the
system is being used for today.
[4:17:21] The question is what future
government officials will be capable
of using it for tomorrow.
[4:17:26] Civil liberties are rarely taken away
all at once.
[4:17:29] They are more often diminished one
seemingly reasonable expectation,
[4:17:32] one new database, one additional
capability, and one expanded
[4:17:35] use at a time.
[4:17:38] The Constitution is supposed to
prevent that.
[4:17:40] So please don't tell the residents of
this city that Flock is just
[4:17:43] a license plate reader.
[4:17:44] It is a surveillance system capable
of creating searchable records
[4:17:48] about the movement of vehicles
throughout our community.
[4:17:50] That deserves the highest level of
public scrutiny, transparency, and
[4:17:53] constitutional restraint.
[4:17:55] Thank you. Thank you.
[4:17:57] [applause]
[4:18:03] [exhaling]
[4:18:05] I got a whole preparation speech too,
just like everybody else.
[4:18:08] Uh, first thing I want to do is I
want to do is I want to thank the
council for listening.
[4:18:11] your your name and the city you
reside in. Dan Far.
[4:18:15] St. Clair Shores resident. Thank you.
[4:18:18] I want to thank you all for
listening.
[4:18:20] Through this process, um, it's been
an evolution for me too.
[4:18:25] Uh, I came at it first because of my
friend Daryl.
[4:18:29] And I think this city owes him a
round of applause for getting us
[4:18:33] all involved and looking at this.
[4:18:34] [applause]
[4:18:36] I want to thank, I want to thank
everybody on this council for
listening.
[4:18:39] I think you guys have done a good
job.
[4:18:41] You listened to what we said and you
took it to heart.
[4:18:46] And that was something I wasn't
prepared to do today.
[4:18:50] I had a defense here, I had a defense
here of of the chief himself.
[4:18:53] I had a defense here that was going
to blast Flock out of the water for
[4:18:56] putting him in a bad situation, just
like you guys said.
[4:19:00] He's got to be responsible for other
agencies and other cops.
[4:19:03] That's not fair to him either.
[4:19:05] He could do it right and we can still
all be burned by it.
[4:19:08] And that's one of the things we got
to remember about this system.
[4:19:11] is that the nature of it is out of
our control.
[4:19:16] Even the mayor of East Point and and
this is what he said.
[4:19:19] I know that our police chief has
worked hard to put policies in
[4:19:23] place for our personnel.
[4:19:24] But the nature of Flock is that it's
part of a network where information
is shared
[4:19:29] with other law enforcement agencies
and frankly, we don't have control
[4:19:33] over what other agencies are doing
and how they're enforcing their
rules.
[4:19:39] We can do it right. We can do it
pristine, and we probably are.
[4:19:42] And nobody's shown we haven't.
[4:19:45] But we can't control that other
agency.
[4:19:48] We can't control that LinkedIn
trusted agency.
[4:19:52] And that's one of the problems.
[4:19:54] One of the other things I just wanted
to mention was,
[4:19:58] Miss Burch has said about, and I'm
sorry for speaking out.
[4:20:01] That's that's an Alexander trait.
People know what I mean.
[4:20:04] Uh, we we we we we debated in the
streets, we didn't follow Rogers'
rules.
[4:20:13] We have to be involved in those that
information that's shared.
[4:20:16] That information you guys get from
Flock.
[4:20:19] We need to know whether it's a
committee,
[4:20:21] whether it's some way that we have to
be informed.
[4:20:25] It we can't be next year we find out
[4:20:27] at a meeting and an agenda pack it a
week before.
[4:20:30] What what what they're going to say.
[4:20:32] That's not fair to us.
[4:20:34] We have to know, and we have to be
involved because these people care,
[4:20:37] and a lot more of them care. A lot of
them had to leave.
[4:20:41] And I just want to make sure that we
understand that part of it.
[4:20:47] I looked at that I I looked at this
issue and I said,
[4:20:51] am I pro or anti? And and Daryl and I
debated this
[4:20:55] more times than you guys want to
know.
[4:20:58] And I was bouncing back and forth,
[4:21:02] until I looked at, really looked at
it and lifted up the hood
[4:21:05] like you guys did today, and some of
you expressed it.
[4:21:08] It doesn't pass, it doesn't pass the
test it has to.
[4:21:12] Could it?
[4:21:13] I don't know. Maybe we'll find out.
[4:21:15] But I just want to do um give uh uh
recognition
[4:21:19] where recognition is to you guys.
[4:21:22] for listening to us. It it it did a
lot to restore some faith
[4:21:26] in people like myself, who had a lot
of guilt of not
[4:21:29] participating. Thank you.
[4:21:30] [applause]
[4:21:38] I'm just going to read it as they
wrote it.
[4:21:42] Despite how ALPRs have been marketed,
[4:21:44] Ma'am, your name in the city you
reside in. I'm sorry, just
[4:21:48] Lisa Oxford St. Clair Shores.
[4:21:50] Despite how ALPRs have been marketed,
[4:21:53] this latest abandonment of our
liberty is not actually
[4:21:56] for the sake of security.
[4:21:58] The purpose of a system is what it
does.
[4:22:01] In actuality, these Valian tech
companies are crippling our
[4:22:06] fourth amendment so that they may add
even more mass surveillance
[4:22:09] to their ever growing arsenal of
marketing tools.
[4:22:12] [laughter]
[4:22:14] Less than 0.05% of all data collected
by ALPRs
[4:22:17] is relevant to criminal cases.
[4:22:21] Just as we learned during the
PowerPoint.
[4:22:24] Most of the data is not accessed by
the police.
[4:22:28] And most of the data relevant to law
enforcement, on the
[4:22:31] whole, is in relation to unpaid
parking tickets.
[4:22:36] The majority of data being harvested
is for commercial value.
[4:22:40] The private investigators and repo
men are some of the
[4:22:43] obvious entities ALPR data can be
sold to.
[4:22:46] And if you think a contract
[4:22:48] between the city and any of these
companies will protect
[4:22:50] your data from being sold in a
country where
[4:22:52] we punish big tech companies with a
slap on the wrist,
[4:22:54] God help you.
[4:22:58] In the modern industry of data
analytics,
[4:23:01] companies can create very strong
customer profiles
[4:23:04] with the addition of ALPR data.
[4:23:06] Perhaps your auto insurance company
will be interested
[4:23:08] to know that the car that you have in
your name and
[4:23:11] under your address
[4:23:12] is your son's daily driver.
[4:23:14] Of course, you have him on the
insurance too, but it just so
[4:23:17] happens that he's recently moved in
with his girlfriend
[4:23:19] and now lives in a town with a much
higher accident rate.
[4:23:25] By the way, did you recently attend a
gun show?
[4:23:28] Maybe one with a portable ALPR in the
parking lot?
[4:23:31] If only I had time to get into that
one.
[4:23:34] I'd also love to talk about how Flock
CEO was on CNN
[4:23:37] going on about how evil police
officers are
[4:23:41] giving his sweet, innocent
surveillance system a bad name.
[4:23:46] And how his ALPRs are going to solve
all crime forever.
[4:23:51] It certainly isn't the first time an
ALPR company has marketed itself
[4:23:54] by stoking public distrust of the
police. Axon?
[4:24:00] But I need to wrap this up.
[4:24:01] The true purpose of all ALPR systems
[4:24:05] is to cast a mass dragnet over the
population in search
[4:24:07] of data it can sell.
[4:24:11] In Texas, police install car card
readers into their
[4:24:14] patrol vehicles.
[4:24:16] And if they got a hit on their ALPRs
for somebody with an
[4:24:19] unpaid parking ticket,
[4:24:21] that OD is criminal was offered the
chance to pay his parking
[4:24:24] ticket on the spot or go to jail.
[4:24:27] There was a 25% fee tacked on top of
[4:24:31] of the ticket.
[4:24:34] And that fine or that 25% went
directly to the ALPR
[4:24:37] company Vigilant.
[4:24:41] Also, that company got to keep all
data perceived to have
[4:24:45] commercial value without any limit on
how long
[4:24:46] it can be retained.
[4:24:49] The purpose of a system is what it
does.
[4:24:53] And to our officers, don't trust
these companies.
[4:24:56] To these CEOs, your one human life
only has value in so
[4:24:59] far as they can expend it
[4:25:03] in the pursuit and protection of
their hoarded wealth and power.
[4:25:08] Thank you. Thank you.
[4:25:09] [applause]
[4:25:15] Okay, make sure everyone signs in,
please. It's just part of the
requirement.
[4:25:18] I know, just really, thank you. Go.
[4:25:19] Chris Stuart, St. St. Clair Shores
resident.
[4:25:21] Uh, I don't have anything prepared,
honestly.
[4:25:24] Um, I really honestly just came up
here.
[4:25:26] Mostly wanted to say thank you.
[4:25:27] I know everyone's already tired.
[4:25:29] Uh, this was phenomenal.
[4:25:32] I was here actually when you guys,
uh,
[4:25:34] originally passed this a year ago.
[4:25:37] Uh, and I remember it just like kind
of slipped through
[4:25:39] as like this small thing and it
sounded like
[4:25:40] it was a good thing, but the more
I've learned
[4:25:42] over over the last year, just like
you guys,
[4:25:45] I've had my eyes very wide open.
[4:25:49] Um,
[4:25:50] [gavel thumps]
[4:25:51] I'll say this, I feel like Flock
[4:25:53] turns law enforcement on its head.
[4:25:56] It feels like we are now required to
[4:26:00] it's guilty until proven innocent.
[4:26:03] Um, there have been people who have
been
[4:26:06] targeted, uh,
[4:26:07] that have had to prove that the
license plate reader actually
[4:26:12] read the wrong information and that
was
[4:26:14] just simply someone that simply
looked
[4:26:16] like her that happened to drive the
same
[4:26:18] type of truck. But she hap happened
to have her own video
[4:26:20] recording of that day.
[4:26:25] And was able to prove in court and
[4:26:27] prove her innocence, but it flips
[4:26:30] the script. This isn't how we should
behave.
[4:26:32] She just happened to have the
resources
[4:26:34] to be able to defend herself, but
that's not great.
[4:26:38] Um, I also wanted to correct a little
bit
[4:26:40] of record here. Uh, when you
mentioned 32,
[4:26:43] that might be what the what the
county
[4:26:45] owns specifically, but you can go to
D-Flock.
[4:26:48] And it shows accurately where the 12
cameras
[4:26:50] are here in St. Clair Shores. There
are
[4:26:52] 770 roughly in in Macomb,
[4:26:55] from what I can tell. There are over
1800
[4:26:58] here in Southeast Michigan, these
cameras.
[4:27:02] If you look nationwide, it's 142,000.
[4:27:05] These are numbers that I literally
just looked up
[4:27:06] while I was in my chair here.
[4:27:08] So it's very easy to find all these
cameras.
[4:27:12] This is massive surveillance, massive
[4:27:15] surveillance on a scale that we've
never
[4:27:16] seen before.
[4:27:18] The technology that exists is
incredibly powerful.
[4:27:23] These companies are aggregating this
information.
[4:27:26] And yes, our law enforcement officers
may be using
[4:27:28] this information broadly correctly,
[4:27:31] but that doesn't necessarily mean
that they
[4:27:33] are using this information correctly.
[4:27:35] And how many of you have had? I I've
had
[4:27:37] at least a dozen, uh,
[4:27:42] mailers from companies who've had
their
[4:27:44] data breached. I've had my medical
[4:27:46] information, social security,
everything
[4:27:49] about me has been exposed in these
last
[4:27:51] couple of years. AT&T, my and uh
[4:27:54] health insurance company. Uh, I've
had
[4:27:57] my um, like medical offices, uh,
[4:28:01] all of my information's been exposed.
[4:28:03] I don't trust another company
[4:28:06] to have this much information
[4:28:08] all in one place.
[4:28:09] It it's bad enough for a government
[4:28:11] to have this kind of level.
[4:28:14] If we had a statewide database, it'd
be one thing,
[4:28:16] but we're talking about a national
[4:28:18] private company who has a notoriously
[4:28:21] weak security system.
[4:28:23] That's reckless and irresponsible.
[4:28:25] And I I don't think we should be a
part
[4:28:27] of that system. We're only talking
about
[4:28:28] 12 cameras in this city.
[4:28:31] We have a long, long fight to get rid
of
[4:28:34] 142,000 cameras nationwide.
[4:28:39] It's shocking.
[4:28:41] Thank you.
[4:28:42] [applause]
[4:28:47] Good evening.
[4:28:48] My name is Richard Shafer.
[4:28:50] You know, I came here tonight to uh,
introduce myself.
[4:28:53] I'm running for trustee of Macomb
Community College.
[4:28:56] what city what city did you reside
in, sir?
[4:28:57] I'm sorry. Clinton Township.
[4:28:59] Thank you. County of Macomb.
[4:29:01] Um,
[4:29:03] You know, four hours ago, I thought
about bailing, right?
[4:29:06] I'll be honest with you.
[4:29:07] And and hear me out, right?
[4:29:10] But listening to all of you, right,
civil
[4:29:12] activity, civil involvement
[4:29:14] is the core, is the essence of this
country.
[4:29:18] So you all do deserve a round of
applause
[4:29:22] for coming out and speaking and
having
[4:29:24] an effect on your community. So I
applaud you all.
[4:29:27] [applause]
[4:29:29] Also to the board, out of respect for
you,
[4:29:32] I did not leave because you you know,
[4:29:34] we asked you for your time, right?
[4:29:35] And and I give you I really do
appreciate
[4:29:37] you giving me the opportunity to
introduce myself.
[4:29:40] Um, I am a former veteran.
[4:29:41] I use my GI bill to go to Macomb
Community College.
[4:29:45] Um, I transferred to Baker after
that.
[4:29:47] Last year I graduated from Macomb
Community College
[4:29:49] as a as a public chaplain.
[4:29:52] So Macomb Community College is near
[4:29:53] and dear to my heart, okay?
[4:29:55] And you know, the question I get is
why?
[4:29:57] Why do you want to be a trustee at
Macomb Community College?
[4:30:01] The the board that's there doing a
great job.
[4:30:04] But if you listen to the politicians
right now,
[4:30:05] everybody's talking about putting
shop class
[4:30:08] back in to high school, right? Back
into public schools.
[4:30:12] And I still have the candlestick that
I made in shop class.
[4:30:17] I still have the lazy Susan I made.
So shop class in high school is
important.
[4:30:20] But what we need is a community
college
[4:30:23] that aligns themselves with the
[4:30:24] building trades and creates these
jobs.
[4:30:28] There's a 300,000 electrician
[4:30:31] shortage over the next 10,000
[4:30:33] year or 10, 10,000 years, 10 years.
[4:30:36] God forbid we're all here 10,000
years from now.
[4:30:39] [laughter]
[4:30:41] Um,
[4:30:42] So, with my experience in the
building
[4:30:45] trades and my ability to communicate,
[4:30:48] I believe that I can get some
dialogue
[4:30:50] going between the community college
[4:30:52] and the building trades.
[4:30:54] And we can create these jobs.
[4:30:55] And a union electrician right now,
[4:30:57] love or hate the union, they're
[4:30:58] making $57 an hour
[4:31:00] plus 42% benefits.
[4:31:03] If we could bring some of that to the
[4:31:05] community college and create some
jobs
[4:31:07] like that, think what we could do
[4:31:09] for this community.
[4:31:10] Right?
[4:31:11] Um,
[4:31:12] So, again, my name is Richard Shafer.
[4:31:15] I'm running for Macomb County trusty,
[4:31:16] if you would vote for me, I'd greatly
appreciate it and thank you for your
time.
[4:31:20] Thank you.
[4:31:21] [applause]
[4:31:25] Hello?
[4:31:26] The mayor kinda screwed what I was
gonna do for my speech.
[4:31:30] And God bless you, sir.
[4:31:32] If you guys, uh, Mayor Walby, is it?
[4:31:35] If you guys don't re-elect him
[4:31:37] and if he's not up for re-election
[4:31:39] and you don't make him run for like
[4:31:41] council or not council but like
[4:31:42] state representative Congress,
something, that's all your fault.
[4:31:45] I've been all over the state fighting
[4:31:47] this and most of the time, you'll
have
[4:31:49] a room full of people and the tyrant
[4:31:51] board will do their tyrant ways.
[4:31:53] This one did not.
[4:31:55] [applause]
Everybody up here! Bravo!
[4:31:58] And that don't come lightly for me.
[4:32:00] And I am gonna say my name and I'm
[4:32:02] not from here. I'm from uh Mount
Morris.
[4:32:03] Normally I don't do that.
[4:32:05] Normally my name's Jason We the
[4:32:06] People and I'm from 1776 Boulevard.
[4:32:09] And if you want to get us started,
[4:32:11] 42 USC 1983's straight
[4:32:12] qualified immunity.
[4:32:14] But because of your mayor, I'll tell
you everything.
[4:32:17] Thank God for him.
[4:32:18] You guys, I'm telling you, I can't
say it enough. I can't say it enough.
[4:32:21] He said bag 'em, are you kidding me?
[4:32:23] It's amazing. Anyhow, let's get into
[4:32:25] this right here, since we're on
[4:32:26] Constitution week here.
[4:32:28] I want to talk about the Declaration
of Independence.
[4:32:31] It says right here into the second
paragraph here,
[4:32:34] We hold these truths to be
self-evident that all men are created
equal.
[4:32:38] that they are endowed by their
creator with certain inalienable
rights.
[4:32:42] Our rights come from God, not the
Constitution. It's just outlined in
there.
[4:32:45] That among these are life, liberty,
and the pursuit of happiness.
[4:32:50] And to secure those rights,
governments are instituted among men.
[4:32:54] What just happened tonight was the
government securing our rights.
[4:32:58] Bravo again!
[4:33:01] and deriving their just powers from
the consent of the governed.
[4:33:05] I would totally give consent to be
governed by that gentleman.
[4:33:08] No, and that don't come lightly for
me.
[4:33:10] Go look at my videos, I'm telling
you.
[4:33:12] You literally, normally it's shit
show on steroids up here.
[4:33:16] Oh! And um, oh, that's first
[4:33:17] amendment protected activity
[4:33:19] Cohen B California 1971, War Jacket
[4:33:20] into the Supreme Court, it said F the
[4:33:22] draft, and I said F to be nice
because
[4:33:24] of your mayor, and the Supreme Court
[4:33:26] upheld his right to do it. Next.
[4:33:28] That whenever any form of government
[4:33:32] becomes destructive of these ends,
[4:33:34] it is the right of the people to
[4:33:37] alter or abolish it. And to institute
[4:33:39] a new government laying its
foundations
[4:33:42] on such principles, and organizing
its
[4:33:44] powers in such form, as to them shall
[4:33:47] seem most likely to their effect for
[4:33:50] safety and happiness.
[4:33:53] We can stop there. It's a go,
[4:33:55] you know, the Declaration of
[4:33:56] The point is, is the right of the
[4:33:58] people to abolish a corrupt
government,
[4:34:00] like a government that thinks you
don't
[4:34:02] have a freedom of speech at the
podium.
[4:34:03] You know? But these flock cameras,
man,
[4:34:05] they are, first off, when she the
[4:34:07] lady earlier was hitting on Peter
Teal.
[4:34:09] He's a frequent Epstein flyer.
[4:34:12] You want to see some real
[4:34:13] troubling stuff, Mayor?
[4:34:14] Look at the ones pointed at
playgrounds.
[4:34:16] That'll really infuriate you and
[4:34:18] they're all over and people are
[4:34:19] putting videos all over social media.
[4:34:21] Go right on TikTok, YouTube,
[4:34:22] Facebook, type it in, flock
[4:34:24] playground, and you'll get it.
[4:34:26] all over the states they're doing
that.
[4:34:28] I thought they only read license
plates.
[4:34:30] Seems to be a lie there.
[4:34:31] Next. Talking about our uh chief
[4:34:33] over here and our police force.
[4:34:36] One of the end goals of flock is to
replace 70 to 80% of officers.
[4:34:41] Have them unemployed.
[4:34:43] They're literally just going to be
[4:34:45] going to go pick up people for
[4:34:46] parking tickets or whatever these
[4:34:48] stupid cameras, you know, flag.
[4:34:50] And what do you need investigative
[4:34:52] officers for? What do you need any
[4:34:54] of that stuff for?
[4:34:55] You know? You don't. It's ridiculous.
[4:34:56] These things are a complete
abomination of this Constitution.
[4:35:01] Like I read to you earlier.
[4:35:03] I know it's getting late and again,
[4:35:04] God bless your mayor and you people
[4:35:06] better rally behind him and stay
behind him.
[4:35:09] And I ain't never said that in my
life,
[4:35:10] and I'm actually gonna sign in for
you too.
[4:35:12] [applause]
[4:35:19] Uh, hello, my name is Miranda
Panowski.
[4:35:20] I am a St. Clair Shores resident,
[4:35:22] and this is actually pretty personal
[4:35:24] to me because where I live, I live on
[4:35:26] St. Margaret's Street in between uh,
13 and Masonic.
[4:35:28] There's a flat camera right on the
turnaround, right on the uh, where
St. Clair Shores and Roseville meet.
[4:35:34] Uh, I used to work at Walgreens,
Masonic and Harbor.
[4:35:36] Every day, I would drive past that
[4:35:38] camera because it's it catches my uh
vehicle as I turn.
[4:35:42] And every day I'd drive back home and
do the turn around, catch me on the
way home.
[4:35:46] So, as I was paying listening to what
the chief said, and I respect what
they do, and I appreciate our police
department, but
[4:35:52] it really isn't just if you come and
exit the city?
[4:35:56] I get I got hit by it every single
day.
[4:35:59] And I just appreciate all of you up
here
[4:36:02] actually doing this, and actually
[4:36:04] like committing to uh bagging these
and putting more time into it.
[4:36:08] Also, dead on.
[4:36:10] I have Mr. Wabi, I don't think you've
ever run a post in my lifetime.
[4:36:14] until what he was saying.
[4:36:16] I I just want to add to that because
I'm like, you know what? You're been
a good mayor the whole time I've been
here.
[4:36:20] I've been here since 2011, Lake View
alumni.
[4:36:24] I had no issues with this council the
entire time I've been here.
[4:36:28] I was in the scouts, I went to City
Council meetings all the time
[4:36:31] when I was younger because, you know,
you had to
[4:36:33] for certain merit badges.
[4:36:36] And uh I appreciate how well there
are some lapses in judgment,
[4:36:42] judgment as time goes on.
[4:36:44] We're back on the right track
currently.
[4:36:46] And that's really all I had to say. I
just want to say thank you for
actually deciding to take the time.
[4:36:52] [applause]
[4:36:57] Hi, I'm Karen Costley,
[4:36:59] and I'm a St. Clair Shores resident.
[4:37:02] Um, I want to say thank you for
listening.
[4:37:07] Because that meant so much
[4:37:09] that you all would take the time to
actually listen
[4:37:14] to the people of your city.
[4:37:19] Thank you.
[4:37:21] The other thing I want to say is
[4:37:23] and this is probably more of a
[4:37:26] school board issue, than your issue,
[4:37:31] but I wanted you to be aware, I don't
[4:37:34] know if you are aware, of this
situation that has happened,
[4:37:37] but it's become national news, St.
Clair Shores,
[4:37:43] for a gym teacher
[4:37:46] that is requiring
[4:37:49] the the girls in the class
[4:37:53] to give them, um, their period,
[4:37:57] their ministration schedules
[4:37:59] and how long their ministration
[4:38:03] period is.
[4:38:07] It's you we've made national news.
[4:38:11] Talk about privacy, we're here
because we want our privacy.
[4:38:17] This is a really horrific thing for
us to make national news.
[4:38:22] I'm like, I'm so embarrassed.
[4:38:25] that we would be
[4:38:29] be for for this?
[4:38:33] This shows how
[4:38:37] our rights, our freedoms.
[4:38:40] They're so precious.
[4:38:44] we have to fight for them.
[4:38:47] And thank you for listening, and like
I said, I know this is probably
[4:38:51] more of a school board issue.
[4:38:54] It is. But you needed to know.
[4:38:56] I didn't know if you know, but it's
national news and it's embarrassing.
[4:39:01] [applause]
[4:39:07] Hello, good evening.
[4:39:08] Good evening.
[4:39:09] Timothy Venvechten, uh St. Clair
Shores.
[4:39:11] just thank you again. Appreciate you
guys listening to us.
[4:39:15] not going to really get into a ton of
details with what I had planned, but
[4:39:19] what Councilman Vitali touched on was
the kind of in response to the
success stories.
[4:39:24] There are just horror story after
horror story regarding the either the
[4:39:28] misappropriation or the inaccuracies
of Flock.
[4:39:32] And one one detail I found out
recently that was wildly incredible.
[4:39:38] Atlanta, Georgia has 5,000 flock
cameras, which they put up.
[4:39:42] They those collection of cameras take
20 billion with a B photos per month.
[4:39:49] Um, Young Lady earlier mentioned, uh,
I think Flock's estimation of their
accuracy was 96%.
[4:39:56] Even if you account or even if you
assign them 99% accuracy,
[4:40:00] that's still 200 million mistakes per
month that those cameras collect.
[4:40:05] So, just some food for thought. We
appreciate you putting the bags up.
[4:40:09] That's step one, obviously next step
is hopefully they come.
[4:40:12] Appreciate it.
[4:40:13] Thank you.
[4:40:14] [applause]
[4:40:18] Hi, I'm Rosemary Ashley, St. Clair
Shores resident for decades and
decades.
[4:40:23] Thank you for listening to the people
and even more, thank you to the
people
[4:40:29] from our city and outside our city
from coming in here
[4:40:32] and uh working with our council.
[4:40:35] Thank you.
[4:40:36] [applause]
[4:40:43] Sorry.
[4:40:44] [laughter]
No, we have another.
[4:40:52] Hi, I, um, my name is Jonathan
Mansinger, St. Clair Shores resident.
[4:40:56] Just like everyone else, I just want
to thank you. Really appreciate you
guys putting the bags up.
[4:41:01] Um, one of the questions that wasn't
asked was when the bags would go up?
[4:41:07] And I don't know if I can get a
response from you guys now or
[4:41:10] Uh, I, I, tomorrow, tomorrow.
[4:41:12] Yeah.
[4:41:13] Sweet.
[4:41:14] Okay.
[4:41:15] We'll, we obviously get the DBW, but
it'll be up by tomorrow and done by
[4:41:19] tomorrow afternoon.
[4:41:20] Okay.
[4:41:21] Cool.
[4:41:22] Yeah.
[4:41:23] And uh, I had a question for
Councilwoman Burgess.
[4:41:27] you just, you just have to give him
to give him to the direct him to the
chair, which is me.
[4:41:31] And but we, we don't usually
interact.
[4:41:33] So we just, you you send it, you
know.
[4:41:35] Um, I, it was uh in relation to the
10 mile and 94 cleanup.
[4:41:40] Um, just wondering if I can bring uh
my 13-year-old son.
[4:41:44] Yes.
[4:41:45] Okay.
[4:41:46] Cool.
[4:41:47] Well, thank you guys.
[4:41:48] There you go.
[4:41:49] Thank you.
[4:41:51] There you go, right, perfect.
[4:41:54] Anyone else at 11:35?
[4:41:56] [laughter]
[4:41:58] We have to vote her now?
[4:41:59] [laughter] No, no. Still no. No.
[4:42:02] No, but it's, it's long.
[4:42:03] Can't about the half, half.
[4:42:05] we have mayor's comments. We're not
going to have any so
[4:42:08] Move to adjourn. We will now move
forward with return by Mr. Karen
supported
[4:42:10] by Mr. Frederick for Joan. All in
favor.
[4:42:14] Aye.
[4:42:15] All opposed.
[4:42:16] Good night.