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All right, I've got the head nod from our clerk, and the, what is she called a videographer, is that the right terminology? All right, we're ready to go. Let's call our meeting to order. Welcome to our meeting of August 25, 2026. Call the meeting to order. Hope you're all doing well. I'm well rested, and ready to go. And so hopefully we can get out of here in about four hours. All right, roll call, please. Mayor Doing.

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here. Vice Mayor D. C. Here.

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Councilmember Spotter-Auto. Here.

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Councilmember Barrick. Here.

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Councilmember Diaz. Here.

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All right. We are all here. Welcome.

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Please join me in the pledge of allegiance.

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Go ahead, the allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for

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witness to the hands. One nation under God in the minimal with liberty and justice for all.

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All right.

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On item four of our agenda adoption of the agenda, Mr. Bradley, are there any updates?

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There are none.

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All right, I'll look for a motion to adopt the agenda as is.

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It's the move to the second motion and second to adopt the agenda.

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All in favor say aye, aye, any opposed?

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None, that motion passes on to item five approval of the minutes from August 11th, 2026.

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Any corrections or edits to note, Mr. Bradley?

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None, I'll look for or for my colleagues.

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No, I'll look for a motion to approve the minutes of August 11th, 2026.

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Move to approve.

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Second.

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Motion and a second to approve the minutes.

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All in favor say aye.

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All right, any opposed?

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None, all right, we're on the public forum, item six.

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Members of the public are entitled to speak on matters of municipal concern not on the agenda during public forum.

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Each person's comment should be limited to four minutes.

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Each person is entitled to speak on any non-agenda item only once at any meeting.

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Brief questions by council members for clarifications may be posed and answered.

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And council members may make requests that items be placed on future agendas.

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But in accordance with state law, no substantive discussion or action may take place until, until the matter properly appears on the agenda.

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Who wishes to make public comment to your city council,

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please?

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Let's go there, how are you done?

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Good evening, council.

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I don't see the water, the response on the agenda, so I'm talking about it tonight in the public forum.

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Regarding the grand jury, oh, sorry, my name is Michelle Lou Covell.

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I am speaking here as a resident, not representing the city of St.

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I have been working on some math because I, this 183% increase that was discussed in the last city council meeting has been on my mind.

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So I did some numbers.

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I took the 2011 base rates for both the water base rate and the sewer base rate and compared it to 2026.

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I then also took water cups only, just analyzing the water usage.

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I understand there are different tiers and different tier rates like ranges, so I plugged

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it into Excel and I compared the 2011 rates versus the 2026 rates just for water.

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And then I took my last bill and noted the gallons that I used which was 17,025 gallons for that month and made sure everything is monthly, not, you know, by monthly.

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And I compared what my cost would be from 2011 to 2026.

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So in 2011, my water would have cost $60.33, just the water usage.

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In 2026, the cost was $401.36, which is reflected in my bill, which is a $561.565 increase from 2011.

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I also did 2027, just because it's increasing in 2027, that bill would be $433.

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$3.63, which would be 618% over the 2011 water rate.

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So it would be $373 more than 2011.

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Then I analyzed the sewage usage as well, just using the same amount of sewage I had in my last bill and

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compared it from 2011 and 2026.

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What's interesting is the base fee doubled or more than doubled from 2011 to 2026.

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So, I will provide a summary that includes all of this, but basically in 2011, my water and sewer bill would have cost $118, and $7.9.

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In 2026, my current bill is $543, and $8, that's water and sewage, and that is 457% over 2011.

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and then in 2027, that same amount would be $581.

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I'm sorry, I didn't provide this earlier,

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I just finished this, which is 489% over.

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Basically, long story short, it's not 183.

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I wanted to check that number.

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I wanted to understand where that number came from

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in the grand jury, and since it was discussed up here

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last time and trying to show math and understand it,

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But I really wanted to understand what my water bill looks like back in 2011.

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And it's a significant increase and I'm sure you all have seen our water is still brown and

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undrinkable and I'm dealing with it every day and we're buying water.

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And people are texting me from their businesses still today that they can't use their water.

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And I just wanted to bring that forth.

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I'll submit it in a public comment, thank you.

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Thank you.

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Also want to know we received public comments in written form from Alan Galbra, David Pruder, Joshua Park.

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Mr. Galbra submitted several different comments.

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Any other wishing to make public comment during this period of time?

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Anything from my colleagues under this item, right?

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All right, we'll move on to reports by staff, City Council,

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feature agenda items in AB 1234 reports.

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Turn to you, Mr. Walsh, to report out our close session from earlier today.

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Thank you, Mr. Mayor.

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Yes, we had a close session to discuss an outstanding claim from Thompson Builders.

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And we have no report action from that close session.

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All right, Mr. McAnne, anything from the staff?

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Yes, thank you. Good evening, Council.

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A couple things just to share with the City Council and for the community.

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One, if you weren't there, you missed quite a show last week.

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One of our in the series of music series at Lyman Park, dueling pianos, it was really awesome.

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We've got some more fun coming up on September 5th.

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And I'd like to have our community services director

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just remind us that some of the stuff going on

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for the 150th celebration.

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Ashley, congratulations on the music series.

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It was really good.

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Thank you very much.

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Good evening, council.

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Good evening, welcome.

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Thank you.

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So September 5th, we have cheers to 150 years

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out on Liberia Lane and Adam Shrieg.

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This is a community block party.

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It's gonna have live music from one to red five,

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local food and drink vendors.

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There'll be an interactive kid zone out there.

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I heard a fair fund slide is going to be out there and will also be ending the night with a drone show.

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So, that will be all out on Adam Street and Library Lane.

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Same place as Harvest Festival was last year and is going to be this year.

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But we hope everybody grabs their dancing booths.

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There will be some line dancing as we say to your 750 years and continue this ask with Centennial celebration.

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Thanks, guys.

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How many drones?

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There will be roughly 200 drones in the sky.

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Hi, you need a permit for that in the city of St. Helena?

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We have the permits that we need for that in approval.

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All right, cool, that sounds like fun.

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Thank you.

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Yeah, thank you so much.

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Thanks.

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A couple of things.

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One just to remind folks that it's summertime and it's fire season.

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There's fires going all around the world.

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Yes, indeed.

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And in our neighborhood, it's quite common during fire season for

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areas that are affected by fires to reach out statewide and

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to get resources actually across the country, but statewide for sure.

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Our chief, John Sorenson, is very well respected in the fire community,

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and is frequently asked to lead strike teams or to provide different assistance.

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That has occurred again this year.

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In fact, he's been out for a bit up in the Trinity Alps area on the Willow Creek fire.

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He'll be coming back to town later this week, which is great.

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And while he's been gone, Captain Salachian has been running the department and things have been going fine.

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They, in fact, went out and helped put out a fire just this weekend, up on Khan Valley Road.

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It was about an almost naker and a half fire.

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Anything that could stir it up there can be quite dangerous heading up toward Anguin.

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Anyway, so fire season is alive and well and our folks are participating both here in the valley as well as elsewhere to help our

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fellow Californians, so just for the folks in the community, just be aware that that's very dangerous times here.

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Measure S, the sales tax measure that the council has put on the November ballot is moving forward.

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There'll be a virtual meeting, a Zoom meeting wherein our administrative services director and

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And I will be responding to questions that are offered by the public.

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That's going to be this Thursday, four o'clock via Zoom.

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And there's lots of information on our city website about measure S, as well as about how folks can participate in that meeting.

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To Ms. Covell's point, we are wrapping up the response to the grand jury report.

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I expect that we will have a letter that reflects the city council's direction on all of the matters that you have.

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provided to us, going out to the grand jury later this week, at which point it'll be available

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to the public. We'll make sure the council gets a copy of that as well. Lastly, we have

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a closing window for folks who might be interested in being on the planning commission.

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We have one opening. We intend to bring applicants to the council at our first meeting in September.

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So if people have an interest, which I would urge them to do, because it's really a fun group, if you're into planning stuff, and file their application by Sunday the 30th, so just come in right up.

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That's it, thanks.

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All right.

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Nice, Mayor.

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Cut me off if this is not the right time, but it's just a comment on general issues.

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I would never catch you.

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But no, no, no, I think it's a general interest.

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I just wanted to say that we have been receiving the many reports on discolored water and we are in a lot of discussions about it.

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So while we haven't reached out with our exact response right now, please know that that is coming soon.

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and I think most everyone recognizes it's a top priority.

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That's it.

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Ten days in a row at the Dorn House of Yellowwater.

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So can I say that?

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All right, anything else for my colleagues?

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All right, so we are now moving on to presentations and public recognitions,

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a little bit of a bittersweet presentation.

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We are recognizing Mandy Kellogg for 17 years of service and

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leadership in the city of St. Alina, I will go to the podium to read a proclamation and we will have cupcakes, I think, around, let's see between the, at the consent calendar.

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I know Ms. Kellogg is not feeling really well today, so you don't have to get that close to me, but you should come up.

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Bittersweet,

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this is a proclamation recognizing and honoring the dedicated service of the Director

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of Administrative Services, Treasurer, Mandy Kellogg,

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and I will read all of it.

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Maybe don't mind. Whereas Mandy Kellogg's career with the city began on February 17, 2009, when she joined the organization as a senior accounting technician embarking on a remarkable 17-year journey marked by continuous professional growth, leadership, and exemplary public service. Whereas through her strong work ethic and commitment to the city, she advanced through numerous key roles, serving as management analyst 2014.

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Senior Management Analyst 2015, Administrative Services Manager of 2016,

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Binance Manager 2019, and ultimately assuming the role of Director of Administrative Services on June 7th, 2021.

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Whereas while serving in her executive role, she demonstrated a strong commitment to personal and

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professional excellence by earning a master's degree in public administration from Sonoma State University between January 2020 and December 2023.

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Whereas during her tenure sheet left an indelible mark on the city's financial integrity

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and strategic operations, playing a central role in delivering the city's very first

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biennial budget, guiding critical water rate studies, guiding labor negotiations, and providing

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invaluable staff support and stewardship to the finance committee.

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And whereas for leadership during the challenges of the COVID-19 pandemic and the aftermath

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the 2020 Glass Fire, modernize the city's infrastructure by transitioning operations to cloud-based systems,

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a critical foresight that ultimately enabled the city to navigate a 2025 cyber attack with

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resilience, minimal disruption, and maximum continuity for residents. Whereas her departure at the

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end of this month marks the conclusion of a distinguished chapter of dedicated public service.

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leading behind a legacy of sound fiscal management, modernize operations, and dedication to our community, indeed.

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Now, therefore, I pull during mayor of the city of St. Helena, along with the city council, do hereby express our profound gratitude and deep appreciation to Mandi Kellogg for 17 years of leadership, devotion and invaluable service to the city of St. Helena,

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and extend our warmest wishes for continued success, health, and happiness in all her future endeavors.

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Paul Doreng-Ber.

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All right.

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You want to say a few words? I'm going to hand off that.

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This is our own city of St. Helena, special Turley wine.

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Okay, presented to Mandy Kellogg in recognition of your distinguished and outstanding service to the city of St.

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Helena from 2009 to 2026, with gratitude and best wishes, that's going to look good on your shelf.

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I'll put it right here, and you're welcome to say a few comments.

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And Mr. Mayor, maybe before Mandy does speak, you could open that bottle of wine, I suppose, but I'd just like to say a couple of things if you don't mind.

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And please,

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Mandy, on behalf of the executive team, your colleagues, and in fact all of the employees of the city of St.

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Elaine to those folks who are working with us today and the people you've helped over your 17 years, I just want to say thank you.

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Mandy has been a very, very good colleague to all of us who have worked for the city of

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St. Helena.

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She's extremely professional, highly dedicated, very knowledgeable, skilled, and abundantly

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competent.

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Mandy knows St. Helena's budget, finances, and the organization at an outstanding level.

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No doubt there's, she's the greatest.

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this single repository of data, both financial and organizational in our city organization.

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We will all miss her very, very much, both personally and in her capacity as the one who knows the answer to all the questions they get asked.

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She and her staff have done a very, very good job over the years, particularly in recent years when, as the mayor said, there were many, many challenges.

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is, beyond her very high financial competence and unwavering integrity, Mandy is nice.

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She's helpful, she's compassionate, she's fun, she's been a great mentor to many staff

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both in her department and elsewhere in the organization.

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She's worn many hats and touched many people.

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She's an easy collaborator and I've come to learn that she's a very good mom.

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She's been a top notch colleague and I really thank her for helping me over the last

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several months and actually a few years ago as well.

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She's been excellent to work with and I really, really enjoyed working with Mania.

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I wish your great success, and as the mayor said, much happiness in our next endeavors.

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Thank you for that excellent comments, and I would agree with everything.

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I think just the first thing that comes to mind is you are a true professional,

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always a professional, always approachable whenever I've had questions.

218
00:20:44,880 --> 00:20:48,820
And I really want you to know how much I value the friendship.

219
00:20:48,820 --> 00:21:06,100
You know, I've been around for a while too, not as long as you have, but a few fewer years, but I do appreciate you, you've been an extraordinary person here that we've all relied on, and you've been an extraordinary friend of me for sure, and I will always remember that.

220
00:21:06,400 --> 00:21:07,520
So now you have the mic.

221
00:21:07,520 --> 00:21:08,320
I'm

222
00:21:10,820 --> 00:21:28,780
not going to say too much because I'm a really ugly cry or so, but I am just so honored to have served this community for the past 17 years and just really value all the friends I've made over the course of that time and all the trust and respect that I've received from each of you and so thank you. I'm really going to miss this place.

223
00:21:29,280 --> 00:21:29,860
Thank you.

224
00:21:30,560 --> 00:21:30,700
All right.

225
00:21:32,180 --> 00:21:34,860
Okay, so say some room for a cupcake, so all

226
00:21:42,380 --> 00:21:42,580
right.

227
00:21:44,510 --> 00:21:49,530
Okay, we, as I understand it, we don't have a staff briefing or any presentations tonight under item nine.

228
00:21:49,710 --> 00:21:59,350
We'll move to the consent calendar 10.1 to 10.9, anyone from the public wishing to pull any consent item at this point?

229
00:21:59,790 --> 00:22:00,790
And what would that be?

230
00:22:01,250 --> 00:22:01,630
What item?

231
00:22:04,640 --> 00:22:09,340
Which one? 10.8, okay, let me look at that, I'm sorry, I didn't hear that.

232
00:22:09,340 --> 00:22:10,120
But we'll

233
00:22:15,950 --> 00:22:20,130
take that one, any others, 10.1.

234
00:22:32,510 --> 00:22:40,570
Is there a motion on the balance of the consent, the consent calendar with the exception of 101 and 10.8?

235
00:22:41,630 --> 00:22:47,340
I'll make a motion, is there a motion, an motion at a second?

236
00:22:47,440 --> 00:22:47,600
Second.

237
00:22:48,360 --> 00:22:50,880
And Mr. Mayor, if I can just add one thing.

238
00:22:50,880 --> 00:22:51,120
Yes.

239
00:22:51,400 --> 00:22:58,600
On one of the items we made, we omitted one little item, 10.5, the Italian Heritage Month.

240
00:22:58,900 --> 00:22:59,000
Yes.

241
00:22:59,600 --> 00:23:06,860
We'd also like authority to fly an Italian flag during the period at our library.

242
00:23:08,440 --> 00:23:09,580
All okay with that?

243
00:23:09,880 --> 00:23:10,940
All okay with that?

244
00:23:11,320 --> 00:23:12,120
Who's Italian here?

245
00:23:13,320 --> 00:23:13,480
All right.

246
00:23:13,960 --> 00:23:14,880
Wish I was.

247
00:23:17,440 --> 00:23:21,300
We've got to satisfy the Italians on the council, that's okay.

248
00:23:21,420 --> 00:23:26,100
So there's a motion who made the second, Vice Mayor made the second.

249
00:23:26,840 --> 00:23:35,400
All in favor of adopting the consent calendar minus 101 to 10.8, say aye, any opposed, any abstain, none.

250
00:23:35,940 --> 00:23:43,320
All right, let's go to 10.1, this is consideration and adoption of resolution authorizing amendments.

251
00:23:43,320 --> 00:23:50,060
It's number two to the St. Lena contract with West Yos and Associates for the preparation of water management plan.

252
00:23:52,220 --> 00:23:58,080
I don't know if you have any specific questions that, or would you like a little bit of a report first?

253
00:23:58,640 --> 00:24:00,620
I don't need a report, I just-

254
00:24:01,240 --> 00:24:02,060
You have the floor.

255
00:24:02,700 --> 00:24:03,540
Okay, thank you.

256
00:24:04,160 --> 00:24:12,840
Yeah, I so appreciate all the work that's been done on the water management plan and we did bring it to, we did talk about it in the Water and Waste Water Committee meeting.

257
00:24:12,840 --> 00:24:19,580
And I'm just not convinced that we need to put another, and I did speak with staff, another $93,000 toward it.

258
00:24:19,740 --> 00:24:28,720
My view is that we can spend the $30,000 or whatever's left on the contract and wrap it up.

259
00:24:28,720 --> 00:24:36,380
I think it will still be helpful, and I know we have a lot to work on, so I just did not want to, yes on that one.

260
00:24:36,380 --> 00:24:41,660
All right, I want to note that we receive public comment from Joshua Park in Michele Covell.

261
00:24:41,840 --> 00:24:47,340
Is there anyone else wishing to make public comment on item 10.1, other than what I've announced.

262
00:24:48,560 --> 00:24:51,340
All right, I'll close public comment and bring it back to the council.

263
00:24:51,800 --> 00:24:55,500
Any other thoughts or comments, Mr. Diaz?

264
00:24:56,240 --> 00:25:05,020
Yeah, so I'll support this tonight, but I just want staff to consider building a hard cap on meeting attendance billing.

265
00:25:05,460 --> 00:25:11,980
We've seen this one escalate quite a bit, in terms of the amount that we're paying for the contractor to attend the meeting.

266
00:25:12,260 --> 00:25:20,440
So if we can put it into the orders moving forward, set it signing, this way we can keep these curbs somewhat.

267
00:25:20,620 --> 00:25:27,000
I think there's probably a good discussion about how those meetings look and do they really need to be there all the time.

268
00:25:27,000 --> 00:25:33,180
But if we can start to address that in the future, that's going to be well received here, but other than that, I would support it.

269
00:25:33,180 --> 00:25:38,540
So other comments, Councilmember Spada-Roto.

270
00:25:38,880 --> 00:25:40,180
Thank you, Mr. Mayor.

271
00:25:41,460 --> 00:25:45,760
I too am going to be supporting this evening, but going forward, I would like when we are

272
00:25:45,760 --> 00:25:53,300
looking at different organizational changes within the staff looking at a way to make sure

273
00:25:53,300 --> 00:25:55,640
that this is going forward, we can avoid things like that.

274
00:25:55,720 --> 00:26:01,580
We have somebody specifically set to be on these certain kinds of projects, so we don't

275
00:26:01,580 --> 00:26:05,040
lined up with contact or problems and meeting issues.

276
00:26:07,390 --> 00:26:09,050
All right, other comments?

277
00:26:12,610 --> 00:26:13,170
It's Barrett.

278
00:26:13,970 --> 00:26:18,450
I'd love to hear more from the vice mayor on why

279
00:26:20,110 --> 00:26:22,350
what specifics are the concern?

280
00:26:22,610 --> 00:26:27,330
Because I know she's really dug deep with the Water Committee.

281
00:26:28,330 --> 00:26:32,430
So I'd love to hear more color before I decide.

282
00:26:33,230 --> 00:26:34,150
Thank you.

283
00:26:35,670 --> 00:26:41,230
Well, maybe we can give Joe a chance to sort of because we're in a little disagreement,

284
00:26:41,430 --> 00:26:42,690
so maybe counter it.

285
00:26:44,810 --> 00:26:49,030
But it's a report that I thought it initially, like two weeks ago, I thought it was mandatory,

286
00:26:49,150 --> 00:26:52,490
but it's actually not a mandatory report for our town, our size.

287
00:26:52,650 --> 00:26:54,250
We decided to do it.

288
00:26:55,710 --> 00:27:02,850
We've looked at it and received it in the Water and Wastewater Committee, and I don't

289
00:27:02,850 --> 00:27:32,610
I don't believe there's much new in the report, it's a compilation of things, and so it seems like a lot of time to be doing that, it's two years in the work, so it sort of seems like by the time it's done, it's going to be obsolete, so it's becoming harder to, I think it's served a purpose, and there's been work to synthesize things, but it seems like it's, to me, time to wrap it up, I think a lot of the money is for, I think, biweekly,

290
00:27:33,910 --> 00:27:44,330
meetings with staff and coming to our committee, which I don't think we need that much going to the ATSC, I just think it's time to wrap it up.

291
00:27:46,600 --> 00:27:48,280
Right, Mr. Leach.

292
00:27:50,480 --> 00:27:51,560
Yes, Council Member.

293
00:27:52,560 --> 00:27:54,260
Do you have a question that you'd like me to answer?

294
00:27:54,260 --> 00:28:01,580
I tell me why you support putting more money into this.

295
00:28:01,580 --> 00:28:06,280
So we've completed five chapters of a nine chapter study.

296
00:28:07,640 --> 00:28:13,840
The remaining chapters are dealing with recycled water, which is pretty critical, also implementation

297
00:28:14,220 --> 00:28:19,160
of a variety of alternatives and options as well as financing.

298
00:28:20,100 --> 00:28:22,020
So those are some of the critical chapters remaining.

299
00:28:22,760 --> 00:28:27,060
And I think what we've discussed in the Waterways Water Advisory Committee is utilizing

300
00:28:27,060 --> 00:28:33,300
in this study for spring boarding into financing options and alternatives, not just for

301
00:28:33,300 --> 00:28:35,940
these projects, but other projects, other capital projects.

302
00:28:36,420 --> 00:28:42,980
So again, it's not a mandatory study for similar to systems with 3,000 connections or more,

303
00:28:43,420 --> 00:28:46,120
where you have an urban water management plan that's a requirement.

304
00:28:46,120 --> 00:28:48,920
This is not because we have less than 3,000.

305
00:28:49,120 --> 00:28:58,020
But it's a similar type of content to help us advance significant projects and funding for those.

306
00:28:59,260 --> 00:29:06,520
So I think we've had some conversation via email today about the nature of we can scale back some of the meetings.

307
00:29:07,440 --> 00:29:15,660
But I think there's value in the consultant providing chapter reviews to the Water Waste Water Advisory Committee as a first line of vetting.

308
00:29:15,660 --> 00:29:34,560
that particular chapter before we bring, you know, it's going to be a several hundred page document, not as significant as the street's master plan, but, you know, a significant size and to be able to have a single draft for that only sees the light of day during a public comment period. I think there's some advantages to getting that initial feedback.

309
00:29:37,510 --> 00:29:38,070
Thank you.

310
00:29:38,070 --> 00:29:40,970
All right, many other comments from my colleagues?

311
00:29:42,350 --> 00:29:49,810
I think one of the things I did note is that there are a number of meetings with the GSA, whether staff, or going to the GSA meetings.

312
00:29:50,330 --> 00:29:56,850
I would encourage the staff members from West Yos to really maybe spend some time with Lester Hardy.

313
00:29:57,890 --> 00:29:59,730
There's a lot of information there.

314
00:29:59,730 --> 00:29:59,950
He's...

315
00:30:00,000 --> 00:30:29,760
In attending all those, he's actively involved in that. I would start there first, that would help reduce some of the meetings. I think he has a really good insight as to what is going on there. I think, I think for the public and for me in particular, the one area that I feel a little uncomfortable with is what is the practical use of a report at the end of the day. And it's still maybe that's why folks are sort of not seeing the, you know, the light at the end of the tunnel. How will this be used practically in our community?

316
00:30:29,760 --> 00:30:35,120
And so that does raise questions for some about, well, we're spending a lot of money on meetings.

317
00:30:35,340 --> 00:30:36,600
Okay, what's going to happen here?

318
00:30:36,680 --> 00:30:45,600
How is that going to help, for example, help us deal with the policy debates that we're having, the issues about water neutrality and those kinds of things?

319
00:30:45,800 --> 00:30:55,480
That's where I thought we would be leading in terms of just a practical usage other than just sort of documenting what the current baseline is, current state of affairs.

320
00:30:56,000 --> 00:31:01,720
And maybe there's still some room there to maybe hone in on that.

321
00:31:02,440 --> 00:31:06,020
At least it wasn't clear for me in the staff report.

322
00:31:06,380 --> 00:31:11,860
You're going to have a usage, several hundred page document, talk

323
00:31:14,320 --> 00:31:15,660
again about the practical

324
00:31:16,220 --> 00:31:17,780
usage of the report.

325
00:31:18,140 --> 00:31:21,720
How will the help deal with some of the issues that we're dealing with now that are current?

326
00:31:23,180 --> 00:31:30,920
So a couple things that I wanted to touch on, part of this project includes the consultation

327
00:31:30,920 --> 00:31:38,280
and a report done by Ludorf and Scominini, who is also the ground water consultant for the GSA.

328
00:31:38,920 --> 00:31:43,960
They were instrumental in development of the ground water sustainability plan with the county.

329
00:31:44,680 --> 00:31:52,240
And so they are also serving as a kind of liaison with our project with the folks of the GSA.

330
00:31:53,360 --> 00:31:57,160
So that's, I mean, that we're using an economy of scale and

331
00:31:57,160 --> 00:32:00,440
similar consultants that are experts in groundwater in the area.

332
00:32:00,520 --> 00:32:01,480
So that's kind of one point.

333
00:32:02,160 --> 00:32:05,780
The other is in the end, again, back to the purpose of the plan.

334
00:32:06,640 --> 00:32:13,020
The purpose of the plan is to be able to have a document that I'm not sure we've done this before.

335
00:32:13,020 --> 00:32:16,600
is looking at all of the water resources available to the community.

336
00:32:17,060 --> 00:32:24,940
Again, because recycled water is new, how that integrates and the options to use that as an invaluable resource now,

337
00:32:26,800 --> 00:32:29,940
that's kind of one of the main critical components of the plan.

338
00:32:30,260 --> 00:32:33,160
What do we do with this? Do we just get it to customers?

339
00:32:33,580 --> 00:32:41,340
Or are there other greater beneficial uses of that asset for the benefit of a larger community?

340
00:32:41,340 --> 00:33:02,180
So that's just an example of one of the chapters that they're going to spend a fair amount of time looking at, but in the end, it's going to have an implementation strategy on items costs that we can take to and use for development agreement negotiations, updating of an impact fee program.

341
00:33:02,500 --> 00:33:06,340
And so there's some real specific tangible items that this document can feed into.

342
00:33:06,340 --> 00:33:08,580
All right, and that helps me.

343
00:33:09,100 --> 00:33:12,240
I think we need to focus more on the strategies and not have a, you know,

344
00:33:12,600 --> 00:33:15,300
there's a fear that we're going to get a cookie cookie cutter documented.

345
00:33:15,740 --> 00:33:18,800
So this is the state of affairs and in the same way.

346
00:33:18,860 --> 00:33:19,700
And like, yeah, we all know that.

347
00:33:20,040 --> 00:33:21,040
Okay, now what?

348
00:33:21,280 --> 00:33:27,680
Yeah, this is on the strategy in terms of how we manage our water supply and

349
00:33:27,680 --> 00:33:29,200
our three different sources of water.

350
00:33:30,020 --> 00:33:33,620
And sort of some of the policy issues in terms of how we're using water.

351
00:33:33,620 --> 00:33:43,120
where we need to use more or less napah water, more or less ground water, more or less

352
00:33:43,120 --> 00:33:47,580
balcony water, those kinds of things and how those all tied together would be helpful.

353
00:33:48,800 --> 00:33:49,740
I'll look for a motion.

354
00:33:54,920 --> 00:33:55,740
Motion to adopt.

355
00:33:57,440 --> 00:33:57,880
Second.

356
00:33:58,740 --> 00:34:01,160
And I do think Mr. Diaz raises a good point.

357
00:34:01,260 --> 00:34:03,800
I think we should sharpen the pencil as much as we can on those meetings.

358
00:34:04,720 --> 00:34:04,900
All right.

359
00:34:04,900 --> 00:34:07,800
Motion in a second by in the Spatterotto, yes.

360
00:34:08,260 --> 00:34:10,180
Okay, all in favor, say aye.

361
00:34:10,620 --> 00:34:11,040
Aye.

362
00:34:11,200 --> 00:34:11,360
Aye.

363
00:34:11,660 --> 00:34:12,060
Any opposed?

364
00:34:13,000 --> 00:34:13,180
No.

365
00:34:13,500 --> 00:34:14,320
We have a no.

366
00:34:14,720 --> 00:34:14,840
No.

367
00:34:15,220 --> 00:34:15,460
All right.

368
00:34:15,660 --> 00:34:16,340
We have another no.

369
00:34:16,720 --> 00:34:18,240
Motion passes, three to two.

370
00:34:19,460 --> 00:34:20,080
All right.

371
00:34:20,580 --> 00:34:30,420
Now we are on to 10.8 and this panel let you introduce the item before we open for public comment.

372
00:34:31,160 --> 00:34:31,420
Great.

373
00:34:31,920 --> 00:34:32,560
Thank you.

374
00:34:34,640 --> 00:34:48,600
So this item relates to an assembly bill, AB 1383, which is moving its way through the state assembly.

375
00:34:49,100 --> 00:34:56,480
It relates to a provision of the California Public Employees Retirement System.

376
00:34:56,480 --> 00:35:05,220
and raises concerns to many cities throughout our state.

377
00:35:08,040 --> 00:35:17,960
The particular legislation would create some new formulas that would be available

378
00:35:17,960 --> 00:35:27,460
both through PERS, so the public employee retirement system, which leads to pensions for retired employees.

379
00:35:28,060 --> 00:35:32,680
These changes would be specific to members who are in the safety units.

380
00:35:33,280 --> 00:35:43,300
And safety includes police officers, as well as firefighters, that group of employees not broadly to all employees.

381
00:35:43,300 --> 00:35:58,040
And this would roll back change provisions of a wildly successful piece of legislation that is, I don't know, 10, 15 years old,

382
00:35:58,040 --> 00:36:07,380
which is the pension employee's pension reform act of 2013.

383
00:36:07,980 --> 00:36:15,960
So PEPRA is a really a milestone act in the world of pensions in California.

384
00:36:17,520 --> 00:36:24,360
Prior to PEPRA, there were a variety of pension formulas which were very generous

385
00:36:24,360 --> 00:36:33,700
and were seen to be financially very challenging for many communities.

386
00:36:34,560 --> 00:36:49,780
Pepper rolled those back and eliminated a number and then set out a whole new set of formulas for pension benefits for employees, not just safety employees, but all employees in California.

387
00:36:49,780 --> 00:37:19,480
And the purpose of PEPRA was really to address what was becoming at the time a real pension pending catastrophe with just tons of unfunded liability and pension contribution obligations to cities that were increasing double digit every year and leading to very difficult decisions for city councils.

388
00:37:20,620 --> 00:37:28,680
and really bringing financial sustainability to question for many communities, depending on the nature of the community.

389
00:37:29,160 --> 00:37:31,200
So Pepper was very, very helpful.

390
00:37:31,760 --> 00:37:38,180
It reduced, it sort of leveled the pension world, still provides pensions,

391
00:37:38,780 --> 00:37:43,700
but reduced some of the very generous pensions that had been in place,

392
00:37:44,120 --> 00:37:46,520
made it easier for folks to deal with those things.

393
00:37:47,640 --> 00:37:52,640
AB 1383 would, as I mentioned, rule some of those backs.

394
00:37:52,900 --> 00:38:02,500
It would establish new formulas for safety employees and would require in some cases some adjustment to existing formulas for some employees.

395
00:38:03,200 --> 00:38:11,780
Many of the things in the assembly bill are not mandatory, they're not automatic, but they would open up

396
00:38:14,080 --> 00:38:20,280
the ability to negotiate through labor contracts and negotiation for more rich contracts.

397
00:38:20,580 --> 00:38:27,480
And so as you know, sometimes there's a bit of a me to type of approach that occurs.

398
00:38:27,480 --> 00:38:31,660
And so of one agency has a formula that might be richer than another agency.

399
00:38:32,060 --> 00:38:37,600
There can be a tendency to want to track that and it can become an issue through negotiation.

400
00:38:37,600 --> 00:38:47,960
and negotiation occurs in a discretionary fashion, but it does become a difficult setting

401
00:38:47,960 --> 00:38:50,500
when you've got agencies that have different formulas.

402
00:38:55,140 --> 00:39:00,240
So this is not any knock on our safety employees or any of our employees.

403
00:39:00,940 --> 00:39:06,500
In fact, we've got outstanding police and fire departments and really good staff.

404
00:39:06,500 --> 00:39:14,300
And so I think the concern that I and others have is that it is just one, in my view, unnecessary.

405
00:39:15,240 --> 00:39:24,900
Two way to expensive for St. Helena, and in my view, way to expensive for just about every city in the state.

406
00:39:26,160 --> 00:39:30,180
We've already know where this goes, we've seen this before.

407
00:39:31,180 --> 00:39:57,480
PEPRA addressed it, and I think we should urge the legislature to retain PEPRA and reject this, which is why the League of California Cities recommends that we discuss the item and why I think it's important to bring it to you and present the letter which we urge both the mayor, or not the mayor, the governor vetoes the matter if it gets through the legislature.

408
00:39:57,480 --> 00:40:03,140
We're also urging the legislature to not support the matter.

409
00:40:04,100 --> 00:40:06,300
So with that, they happy to answer questions.

410
00:40:06,820 --> 00:40:20,640
If you have particular questions about what it might mean for us, it's kind of difficult for us to say we've done some number crunching, I'm sure Mandy could give us a ballpark, but it would really just be that because there's many, many things that go into play here.

411
00:40:21,120 --> 00:40:22,840
And the legislation's not set yet.

412
00:40:22,840 --> 00:40:26,060
All right, let me open it for public comment.

413
00:40:42,140 --> 00:40:43,960
Good evening mayor and city council members.

414
00:40:44,180 --> 00:40:48,260
My name is Ayers Solana, and I am the president of the St. Lena Police Officers Association.

415
00:40:49,260 --> 00:40:53,960
I'm here tonight to ask you to not support the letter asking the governor to be the AB 1383.

416
00:40:54,520 --> 00:40:58,020
I know one of the biggest concerns with this bill is the cost, and I understand that.

417
00:40:58,220 --> 00:41:01,100
But I want to talk about something that I think is just as important.

418
00:41:02,180 --> 00:41:06,920
What does this job do to an officer after doing it for 20 to 30 years?

419
00:41:06,920 --> 00:41:12,880
And while I'm here representing our police officers, I also want to point out that this bill affects our firefighters, too.

420
00:41:13,440 --> 00:41:15,640
We support AB 1383 for both.

421
00:41:16,900 --> 00:41:22,600
Police work is hard on the body, officers work nights, weekends, holidays, overtime and long shifts.

422
00:41:22,980 --> 00:41:29,340
Every day and officers on patrol their safety vest and equipment can add about 35 pounds for an entire shift.

423
00:41:30,020 --> 00:41:34,940
Think about carrying that extra weight for 12 hours a day, year after year, for 20 to 30 years.

424
00:41:34,940 --> 00:41:39,180
an officer can spend hours sitting in a patrol car wearing all of that

425
00:41:39,180 --> 00:41:43,420
equipment and then with no warning have to jump out and run after someone or

426
00:41:43,420 --> 00:41:47,960
go into a physical fight. If a suspect runs that officer has to run after

427
00:41:47,960 --> 00:41:52,020
them and if someone fights that officer has to control that person. If there's an

428
00:41:52,020 --> 00:41:56,220
emergency that officer has to respond. The job doesn't get easier just because

429
00:41:56,220 --> 00:42:00,600
you're getting older and I'm not saying that a 57-year-old officer can't do this

430
00:42:00,600 --> 00:42:05,560
job, they can, but after 25 to 30 years of carrying that extra weight, working graveyard

431
00:42:05,560 --> 00:42:10,400
shifts, losing sleep, dealing with stress, chasing people and getting into physical fights,

432
00:42:10,820 --> 00:42:13,320
your body isn't the same as it was when you were 25.

433
00:42:14,080 --> 00:42:15,260
That's just the reality.

434
00:42:15,820 --> 00:42:20,240
So when we talk about how much AB 1383 could cost the city, I think we also need to look

435
00:42:20,240 --> 00:42:22,700
at what it could cost if we don't make this change.

436
00:42:23,340 --> 00:42:27,580
We can look at the cost of allowing an officer to retire at 55, but we also need to look

437
00:42:27,580 --> 00:42:31,600
at the possible cost of keeping that officer on patrol into their late 50s.

438
00:42:32,060 --> 00:42:35,120
When an officer gets hurt on duty, that has a cost to.

439
00:42:35,380 --> 00:42:40,060
We could be talking about workers' comp medical bills time off over time to cover that shift.

440
00:42:40,460 --> 00:42:43,180
Or an officer who may not be able to come back to full duty.

441
00:42:44,020 --> 00:42:47,920
So yes, allowing an officer to retire at 55 may cost the city more, but

442
00:42:47,920 --> 00:42:50,980
keeping that officer working until 57 can have a cost to.

443
00:42:51,740 --> 00:42:53,500
It may just show up somewhere else.

444
00:42:53,780 --> 00:42:56,220
More importantly, we're talking about someone's health.

445
00:42:56,700 --> 00:43:01,020
This job takes a toll on people, officers deal with stress, lack of sleep,

446
00:43:01,440 --> 00:43:03,460
traumatic calls, and physical injuries.

447
00:43:04,020 --> 00:43:09,140
Some officers don't even make it to retirement, and the officers who do should have the chance to actually enjoy it.

448
00:43:09,880 --> 00:43:12,640
That's why 55 versus 57 matters.

449
00:43:13,120 --> 00:43:16,940
It doesn't mean every officer has to retire at 55, it means they have the choice.

450
00:43:17,860 --> 00:43:21,660
If someone has already given 25 to 30 years of their life to this profession,

451
00:43:21,860 --> 00:43:24,800
I don't think giving them the option to retire at 55 is unreasonable.

452
00:43:24,800 --> 00:43:28,900
At the end of the day, I just ask that you look beyond the number on the financial report.

453
00:43:29,300 --> 00:43:31,660
Think about what those extra two years mean.

454
00:43:32,060 --> 00:43:35,900
Two more years of nights, weekends, holidays away from family.

455
00:43:36,640 --> 00:43:40,000
Two more years of carrying that 35 pound of equipment every shift.

456
00:43:40,500 --> 00:43:45,080
Two more years of stress, two more years where if somebody runs that officer still has to run after them.

457
00:43:45,460 --> 00:43:49,660
And two more years of putting their body at risk getting hurt, that's the reality of this job.

458
00:43:49,660 --> 00:43:56,880
On behalf of the St. Lena Police Officers Association, I'm asking you not to send a letter asking the Governor to be though, AB 1383.

459
00:43:57,160 --> 00:44:03,040
I'm asking you to support giving officers who have spent their career serving this community the choice to retire at 55.

460
00:44:03,740 --> 00:44:09,260
And while I stand here representing our police officers, we also stand with our firefighters and support this bill for them as well.

461
00:44:09,560 --> 00:44:09,940
Thank you.

462
00:44:10,980 --> 00:44:11,700
Thank you.

463
00:44:18,360 --> 00:44:21,220
Good evening, Mayor and members of the City Council.

464
00:44:21,220 --> 00:44:26,660
My name is Tyler Nyberger, President of the St. Helena Professional Firefighters Association.

465
00:44:27,400 --> 00:44:33,380
We respectfully ask the council not to approve the letter requesting that AB 1383 be vetoed.

466
00:44:34,220 --> 00:44:39,560
The city's letter raises concerns about pension costs, budget deficits, infrastructure, and

467
00:44:39,560 --> 00:44:40,260
other priorities.

468
00:44:41,020 --> 00:44:45,560
We understand those concerns and also want St. Helena to remain financially sustainable.

469
00:44:45,560 --> 00:44:52,840
However, a complete fiscal analysis must consider more than a pension contributions.

470
00:44:53,400 --> 00:44:57,740
It should also consider the cost of requiring firefighters to perform the physical demanding

471
00:44:57,740 --> 00:44:59,580
job into their late 50s.

472
00:45:00,000 --> 00:45:05,700
Including workers compensation claims, injuries, extended recovery periods, disability retirement,

473
00:45:05,980 --> 00:45:11,420
overtime, and employee recruitment and retention. Older and longer serving firefighters face

474
00:45:11,420 --> 00:45:19,480
greater injury risks. This, the years between 55 and 57 are not two more years behind a desk.

475
00:45:19,920 --> 00:45:24,380
It's carrying patients, heavy equipment, working an extreme heat without adequate sleep,

476
00:45:24,380 --> 00:45:29,660
and continued exposure to smoke, carcinogens, trauma, and unpredictable emergencies.

477
00:45:30,640 --> 00:45:35,480
The city's letter states that every additional dollar spent on pension obligations is unavailable

478
00:45:35,480 --> 00:45:36,860
for other essential services.

479
00:45:37,580 --> 00:45:42,300
We ask the council to recognize that every dollar spent on an avoidable injury, workers'

480
00:45:42,480 --> 00:45:47,900
compensation claim, forced overtime shift, or disability retirement will also be unavailable

481
00:45:47,900 --> 00:45:48,760
for those services.

482
00:45:48,760 --> 00:45:52,620
Those costs must be evaluated alongside any pension impact.

483
00:45:54,120 --> 00:46:03,100
Because we were unable to obtain St. Helena's actual cost estimate, our friends down its Napa City Firefighters Association provided figures they received from CalPERS.

484
00:46:03,880 --> 00:46:10,720
Their projected for roughly 150 safety employees is about $2,000 per employee per year.

485
00:46:11,800 --> 00:46:16,260
St. Helena only has a fraction of that number of safety employees enrolled in CalPERS.

486
00:46:16,260 --> 00:46:24,600
The small portion of our department enrolled in CalPERS was placed into a 2% at 57 formula because of a large,

487
00:46:24,800 --> 00:46:26,720
clerical error by the city.

488
00:46:27,580 --> 00:46:32,540
Where our police department counterparts were placed in a 2.7 at 57, no fault to them.

489
00:46:33,540 --> 00:46:44,080
AB 1383 would not automatically provide us with a higher formula, but it would allow services earned beginning in 2027 to reach its full formula at age 55.

490
00:46:44,080 --> 00:46:52,860
This meaningful step towards correcting the city's major mistake has also received the support of our local state representatives.

491
00:46:53,760 --> 00:46:56,000
This is also deeply personal to our families.

492
00:46:56,680 --> 00:47:13,360
We spend at least one third of every year at the firehouse, approximately 122 full days, or more than 2,900 hours before overtime, callbacks, training, strike team assignments, and major emergencies are added.

493
00:47:13,360 --> 00:47:20,360
Over a 30-year career, that equals to roughly 10 complete years spent at the firehouse and away from our families.

494
00:47:21,140 --> 00:47:30,900
We miss one of every three nights, not to mention weekends, birthdays, anniversaries, holidays, school events, and ordinary family moments.

495
00:47:30,900 --> 00:47:42,640
Working from age 55 to 57 means approximately another 243 full days or nearly 5,850 hours away from our families.

496
00:47:43,460 --> 00:47:46,860
The city's letter characterizes this legislation in supporting a single interest.

497
00:47:47,340 --> 00:47:50,860
Respectfully, St. Helene's firefighters are not simply a special interest.

498
00:47:51,200 --> 00:47:56,080
We protect this community around the clock and in our health, retention, family stability, and

499
00:47:56,080 --> 00:48:00,120
An ability to retire with dignity directly affect the public safety services.

500
00:48:00,540 --> 00:48:03,360
St. Helena replies on it, relies on it.

501
00:48:04,260 --> 00:48:07,880
Fiscal responsibility and fair treatment do not have to be opposing goals.

502
00:48:08,180 --> 00:48:16,440
On behalf of the St. Helena Professional and Firefighters Association, we respectfully ask that the council not approve the letter to request that AB 1383 be vetoed.

503
00:48:16,680 --> 00:48:23,600
Before taking a final position, we strongly encourage the council to obtain St. Helena's actual projected costs directly from CalPERS.

504
00:48:23,600 --> 00:48:27,580
And this decision should be based on verified actual local numbers and

505
00:48:27,580 --> 00:48:31,640
a complete actuarial of financial and human cost, not general assumptions.

506
00:48:32,080 --> 00:48:33,160
Thank you for your time and consideration.

507
00:48:33,780 --> 00:48:34,240
Thank you.

508
00:48:40,230 --> 00:48:43,690
I've seen anyone else wishing to approach the podium?

509
00:48:44,450 --> 00:48:47,990
Close public comment, bring it back to the council, about going on there.

510
00:48:48,710 --> 00:48:52,110
Anyone want to weigh in on this or start a conversation?

511
00:48:59,430 --> 00:48:59,830
I'll start.

512
00:49:00,670 --> 00:49:05,270
Yeah, okay, I see Mr. Diaz or Mr. Barrick, long to go ahead and Mr. Barrick.

513
00:49:05,590 --> 00:49:06,850
Well, the other Mr. Diaz, right there.

514
00:49:07,230 --> 00:49:16,330
So, powerful testimony, this bill obviously will have an impact on every municipality in County.

515
00:49:17,570 --> 00:49:24,530
In the state, I've reviewed the bill both here and at my day job, because we're facing the same thing.

516
00:49:24,530 --> 00:49:30,950
So I just want to say that it's a really tough decision to make.

517
00:49:31,270 --> 00:49:37,830
However, personally I stand on the side of our firefighters and our police officers.

518
00:49:39,050 --> 00:49:50,090
I'm prepared to vote no on this and not move this forward and support this bill at a state level.

519
00:49:50,090 --> 00:50:11,370
I think a town like ours, right, we have an ethos in the same way, health care, we believe in certain things here, family, health care, I think health care for all, we believe in protecting our town and taking care of those who serve the city.

520
00:50:11,370 --> 00:50:20,050
I think this falls squarely in line with those ethos, and it's easy to talk about it, but it's another thing to vote that way, and I'm prepared to do so.

521
00:50:21,650 --> 00:50:23,590
All right, others wishing to comment this, yes?

522
00:50:24,490 --> 00:50:25,810
Yes, thank you, Mr. Mayor.

523
00:50:26,150 --> 00:50:30,230
So I'm getting great testimony.

524
00:50:30,710 --> 00:50:40,730
I think really what I need to hear is the actual cost, because for me, if this is not material for a small town, then it's a different discussion.

525
00:50:40,730 --> 00:50:43,630
but not having those numbers right now makes it very difficult.

526
00:50:43,830 --> 00:50:50,990
I know we received some here, but if there's a way to, I don't know what the timing is on this,

527
00:50:51,190 --> 00:50:56,850
but if there's a way to get that information and revisit this, I don't know if that's a possibility or not,

528
00:50:57,410 --> 00:51:04,530
that would help me understand how much of a, how much this is going to impact the city and our finances.

529
00:51:05,470 --> 00:51:10,010
If it truly is only $2,000 per employee per year,

530
00:51:10,010 --> 00:51:15,910
I think that's something to look at, but I'm kind of in the same boat.

531
00:51:16,290 --> 00:51:22,410
I support our public safety workers and I would, if this is not material, then we need to know that.

532
00:51:23,910 --> 00:51:24,470
All right,

533
00:51:27,250 --> 00:51:29,610
I smell or I don't know any other comments.

534
00:51:30,510 --> 00:51:36,250
All right, here we are, let's test it with a motion, that's how you usually test things with a motion.

535
00:51:39,530 --> 00:51:40,610
I'm looking straight ahead.

536
00:51:40,610 --> 00:51:42,670
I will make, I will make a motion.

537
00:51:43,030 --> 00:51:44,650
How do you make, no, go ahead, I'll say something.

538
00:51:44,670 --> 00:51:47,050
I just want to add a little bit, if I may.

539
00:51:48,470 --> 00:51:49,910
A little bit, great.

540
00:51:50,230 --> 00:51:54,650
We're already beyond, we're past time, so keep it brief, yes, go ahead.

541
00:51:54,730 --> 00:52:01,210
Yeah, yeah, so there are just to note that there are costs that first that are unknown.

542
00:52:01,710 --> 00:52:06,330
But there are potential costs through the legislation that are kind of twofold.

543
00:52:06,330 --> 00:52:12,070
One is the very minor minimum cost that I think folks are talking about, which is an adjustment.

544
00:52:12,810 --> 00:52:18,970
The more significant is the exposure to bringing back formulas that go forward.

545
00:52:19,490 --> 00:52:27,310
And so the legislation brings those back, and they don't implement them, but they make them available for negotiation.

546
00:52:27,770 --> 00:52:34,970
Today in since 2013, they've not been available because the legislature found that they were financially challenging.

547
00:52:34,970 --> 00:52:37,230
and they repeal those.

548
00:52:37,750 --> 00:52:47,270
And so the matter that is the easy part going from 50-70-55, that's one point.

549
00:52:47,590 --> 00:52:54,830
It's the other aspects of the bill that are just really untenable from a financial standpoint for cities to consider.

550
00:52:55,630 --> 00:53:01,890
If the legislation was changed to address components, that's a different thing, that's not what this legislation does, that's not how it's approached.

551
00:53:02,290 --> 00:53:03,890
And that's why we oppose it.

552
00:53:03,890 --> 00:53:10,470
The matter of supporting, compensating, respecting folks involved in different aspects of work.

553
00:53:10,590 --> 00:53:11,610
There's no doubt about that.

554
00:53:11,830 --> 00:53:15,450
There's other ways to do that, in my view, this legislation is not the way to do it.

555
00:53:16,170 --> 00:53:24,730
All right, with that, I would like to make a motion to send the letter, how do I say that?

556
00:53:26,030 --> 00:53:26,910
Or, yeah.

557
00:53:26,910 --> 00:53:32,050
Yeah, so we have a recommendation to send a letter to the legislature opposing us and

558
00:53:32,050 --> 00:53:38,030
asking for action by the legislature to oppose, and then if it makes it through for the governor to veto.

559
00:53:39,050 --> 00:53:40,150
All right, is there a second?

560
00:53:41,790 --> 00:53:42,270
Second.

561
00:53:43,070 --> 00:53:46,490
Okay, there's motion in a second, any further comment or discussion?

562
00:53:48,210 --> 00:53:50,010
Of course, thank you.

563
00:53:50,390 --> 00:53:50,650
Thank you.

564
00:53:50,650 --> 00:54:08,850
My comment would be that I like, but our city manager had mentioned about how we don't necessarily need to have this bill in order to help the police officers or fire department in certain ways because there is more to this bill than just what meets the eye.

565
00:54:08,850 --> 00:54:15,230
So I think we're recognizing how much we appreciate our firefighters and our police department.

566
00:54:15,370 --> 00:54:18,250
But we want to do what's right by them, that's also right by our town.

567
00:54:18,630 --> 00:54:20,670
And not necessarily what's put into this bill.

568
00:54:23,520 --> 00:54:24,120
Thank you for that.

569
00:54:25,440 --> 00:54:26,320
You have the comments?

570
00:54:27,020 --> 00:54:40,520
I just say that this bill has been revised already in session from actually twice from the first iteration.

571
00:54:40,520 --> 00:54:49,100
that's gone through the legislative process and we'll get to shortly the Governor's desk and

572
00:54:49,100 --> 00:54:55,640
it's been whittled down quite significantly from the first proposal. So we might not be looking

573
00:54:55,640 --> 00:55:04,520
at things. It would have been very helpful to council members, Diaz points, to have some semblance

574
00:55:04,520 --> 00:55:12,880
of impact, I think we'll find it to be small in general, but regardless, we'll take

575
00:55:12,880 --> 00:55:13,120
a vote.

576
00:55:15,970 --> 00:55:16,350
All right.

577
00:55:16,550 --> 00:55:17,190
Let's have a roll call.

578
00:55:20,590 --> 00:55:21,370
And everybody's made it.

579
00:55:21,490 --> 00:55:23,270
Let's, before we do that, just repeat the motion.

580
00:55:23,270 --> 00:55:24,590
So we're all clear what the motion is.

581
00:55:27,060 --> 00:55:27,640
Let me do that.

582
00:55:27,700 --> 00:55:28,520
Please, just briefly.

583
00:55:30,880 --> 00:55:40,240
The motion is to approve, sending the letter as written to the requesting that the

584
00:55:40,240 --> 00:55:48,020
The legislature not pass the AB 1383, and if it does pass, that the governor vetoes it.

585
00:55:48,360 --> 00:55:50,680
All right, so we all understand what it is, roll call please.

586
00:55:51,220 --> 00:55:51,880
Vice mayor D. Z.

587
00:55:52,500 --> 00:55:52,700
Yes.

588
00:55:52,980 --> 00:55:53,700
Councilmember Spadarado.

589
00:55:54,160 --> 00:55:54,360
Yes.

590
00:55:54,720 --> 00:55:55,520
Councilmember Barrick.

591
00:55:55,820 --> 00:55:56,100
No.

592
00:55:56,440 --> 00:55:57,120
Councilmember Diaz.

593
00:55:57,580 --> 00:55:58,100
No.

594
00:55:58,700 --> 00:55:59,600
And Mayor Domingue.

595
00:55:59,780 --> 00:55:59,860
No.

596
00:56:00,260 --> 00:56:00,980
The motion fails.

597
00:56:02,000 --> 00:56:03,600
All right, what do we want?

598
00:56:07,840 --> 00:56:08,880
We have cupcake time.

599
00:56:09,640 --> 00:56:10,160
Correct?

600
00:56:11,320 --> 00:56:12,480
You are going to remind me.

601
00:56:12,740 --> 00:56:13,260
Cupcake time.

602
00:56:13,260 --> 00:56:17,040
Alright, we're going to take a brief break and we're going to celebrate a little bit, open

603
00:56:17,040 --> 00:56:21,280
up that bottle of wine and eat some cupcakes, maybe not open up the bottle of wine.

604
00:56:21,900 --> 00:56:23,400
We'll look at the bottle of wine.

605
01:06:06,290 --> 01:06:08,070
We're gonna get started. All

606
01:06:29,220 --> 01:06:30,740
right, we're gonna reconvene.

607
01:07:09,140 --> 01:07:19,500
All right,

608
01:07:33,760 --> 01:07:38,340
we're back on the agenda. We're gonna do our public hearings now.

609
01:07:38,980 --> 01:07:41,380
And you can introduce the item 11.1, please.

610
01:07:41,920 --> 01:07:42,020
Great.

611
01:07:42,600 --> 01:07:44,240
Thank you, Mr. Mayor, Councilmembers.

612
01:07:44,960 --> 01:07:50,120
This is a public hearing on ordinance,

613
01:07:50,760 --> 01:07:57,640
or three ordinance, is actually one that would modify provisions of our zoning code regarding accessory dwelling units.

614
01:07:58,200 --> 01:08:05,820
And then amendments to other sections of the municipal code regarding water and waste water service.

615
01:08:05,820 --> 01:08:11,040
There's been a lot of discussion around this, accessory dwelling units are quite popular in St.

616
01:08:11,160 --> 01:08:15,220
Alina, and they serve a whole variety of purposes in town.

617
01:08:16,060 --> 01:08:22,460
There's been a lot of discussion over the years about how to improve our regulations so

618
01:08:22,460 --> 01:08:27,560
that they are more specific to conditions in St. Alina, and

619
01:08:27,560 --> 01:08:34,200
that they are responsive to needs of our community and ideas that are design community.

620
01:08:34,200 --> 01:08:37,120
you comes up with to address things so things evolve.

621
01:08:37,940 --> 01:08:43,360
We've also had a number of changes in state law which change regulations and so there

622
01:08:43,360 --> 01:08:47,080
been a number of changes that have happened to these provisions over the years.

623
01:08:48,020 --> 01:08:52,820
And in the recent, I don't know, year and a half or so, there's been a ton of conversation

624
01:08:53,640 --> 01:09:00,700
between planners and folks in the community about how to improve things in our regulatory

625
01:09:00,700 --> 01:09:01,520
world.

626
01:09:01,520 --> 01:09:11,600
So, Lisa and Jackie have done a very good job of listening to folks and making changes and they're going to explain what they have come up with.

627
01:09:11,960 --> 01:09:19,880
The Planning Commission has had several hearings and listened to folks too and so that's been a very constructive and collaborative effort.

628
01:09:20,320 --> 01:09:27,580
And then Mario is involved on the other side of things and that's in the water and wastewater world and so there are some provisions that today are a little bit complicated.

629
01:09:27,580 --> 01:09:33,940
We're trying to make them less complicated and there's some provisions that are I don't know strict and we're trying to make them

630
01:09:33,940 --> 01:09:37,160
Maybe a little more flexible. So I think you'll hear about all that in a second.

631
01:09:39,260 --> 01:09:41,880
All right. I see we have a presentation

632
01:09:43,080 --> 01:09:44,840
It should go about four minutes

633
01:09:49,750 --> 01:09:52,530
Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Oh, I thought you were leaving that behind Mandy

634
01:09:57,680 --> 01:10:03,220
Go ahead. Thank you, Mr. Mayor and good evening members of the City Council. Tonight staff is presenting a

635
01:10:03,220 --> 01:10:07,440
A coordinated package of ordinance amendments addressing accessory dwelling units,

636
01:10:07,620 --> 01:10:14,220
junior accessory dwelling units, also known as ADUs and JADUs, and related water and sewer utility requirements.

637
01:10:14,760 --> 01:10:18,880
As we navigate through the presentation tonight, I'll begin with the ADU ordinance amendments and

638
01:10:18,880 --> 01:10:21,500
the policy changes choices that are before the council.

639
01:10:22,000 --> 01:10:27,240
And then I will turn the presentation over to Mr. Mario Traverso from Public Works to discuss the utility amendments.

640
01:10:29,480 --> 01:10:30,200
Next slide, please.

641
01:10:32,880 --> 01:10:36,700
Tonight's hearing will focus on the three separate ordinances before the council.

642
01:10:37,420 --> 01:10:39,340
One is addressing ADUs and JADUs.

643
01:10:39,800 --> 01:10:44,840
One is addressing water service laterals and one is addressing sewer laterals.

644
01:10:45,180 --> 01:10:50,540
For the ADU ordinance, staff would like to highlight two policy choices for the council's

645
01:10:50,540 --> 01:10:51,160
consideration.

646
01:10:51,840 --> 01:10:57,220
The principle difference between those options is how the city chooses to treat local public

647
01:10:57,220 --> 01:11:01,600
transit for purposes of transit-related ADU-high allowances.

648
01:11:02,120 --> 01:11:04,900
And I will explain that in more detail in the next few slides.

649
01:11:05,300 --> 01:11:05,800
Next, please.

650
01:11:07,900 --> 01:11:09,600
I'd like to draw your attention to the overhead.

651
01:11:10,400 --> 01:11:15,180
This ordinance was developed following a planning commission study session that was held in April of this year.

652
01:11:15,800 --> 01:11:23,180
As seen on the left, the overall input from the public and the commission was to reduce unnecessary barriers to ADU development.

653
01:11:23,180 --> 01:11:33,920
Simplifier ordinance, retain clear and objective standards, and re-evaluate the utility requirements that can add unnecessary costs to development of ADUs.

654
01:11:34,740 --> 01:11:38,980
On the right side, you can see how those requests have been incorporated into the ordinance.

655
01:11:39,320 --> 01:11:48,200
In summary, the proposed ordinance responds to that direction in several ways, including increasing the maximum ADU size to 1200 square feet.

656
01:11:48,200 --> 01:11:57,720
Simplifying design standards, removing annual rent reporting requirements, and relocating detailed utility requirements to Title 13.

657
01:11:58,820 --> 01:11:59,320
Next slide.

658
01:12:01,640 --> 01:12:04,960
The proposed amendments before you generally fall into three categories.

659
01:12:05,420 --> 01:12:12,380
First, they're the changes required by state law, which cover several topics, largely over processing and procedural requirements.

660
01:12:13,040 --> 01:12:19,360
Second, there are clarifications and organizational changes intended to make the ordinance easier to administer.

661
01:12:19,840 --> 01:12:28,400
And third are several areas where the city retains local policy discretion, including the definition of public transit.

662
01:12:28,840 --> 01:12:29,980
Next slide, please.

663
01:12:34,840 --> 01:12:44,280
So before discussing the planning commission's recommendation, I would like to briefly explain the state framework because the transit issue can be otherwise confusing.

664
01:12:44,280 --> 01:12:50,480
State law generally allows ADUs, detached ADUs, to be built up to 16 feet in height.

665
01:12:51,020 --> 01:12:58,520
And it provides additional height provisions up to 18 feet or 20 for certain roof pitch situations.

666
01:12:58,920 --> 01:13:07,480
When a property is within one half mile walking distance of a state defined meter transit stop or high quality transit corridor.

667
01:13:07,480 --> 01:13:18,800
The same provision extends to parking, parking that properties are within half a mile of state-defined public transit are exempt from requiring off-street parking, where it might otherwise be required.

668
01:13:20,220 --> 01:13:29,680
City of St. Lena does have public transit, including the vine shuttle and vine transit, which provide both fixed route and demand responsive services.

669
01:13:29,680 --> 01:13:36,740
However, they do not meet the state criteria that trigger the additional height allowances and parking reductions.

670
01:13:37,240 --> 01:13:43,020
And as a result, the state transit related allowances do not currently apply in our city.

671
01:13:43,280 --> 01:13:45,300
Nor are they expected to in the near future.

672
01:13:45,620 --> 01:13:51,240
I tend the Napa Valley transit meeting seems like our routes aren't changing anytime soon.

673
01:13:52,140 --> 01:13:54,180
So that leads us to the policy question before you.

674
01:13:54,860 --> 01:13:57,460
Should the city recognize local micro transit,

675
01:13:57,460 --> 01:14:02,300
it, including the Vine Shuttle as a form of public transit for purposes of providing

676
01:14:02,300 --> 01:14:05,720
a comparable height allowance provided by the state law.

677
01:14:06,860 --> 01:14:07,860
Next slide, please.

678
01:14:10,070 --> 01:14:14,550
With that framework in mind, the Planning Commission recommended treating rideshare services,

679
01:14:14,870 --> 01:14:20,670
such as Uber and Lyft, which are privately owned, as forms of public, local, micro transit.

680
01:14:21,390 --> 01:14:26,110
However, the Commission also directed that this broader local definition should not apply

681
01:14:26,110 --> 01:14:31,410
additional height provisions, because ride share services are generally available throughout

682
01:14:31,410 --> 01:14:37,650
the city, the practical effect of the recommendation was to eliminate the local ADU parking requirements

683
01:14:37,650 --> 01:14:42,710
city-wide. For height, however, the ordinance would continue to rely on the state transit

684
01:14:42,710 --> 01:14:48,490
criteria, which, as previously noted, St. Helena does not currently have, so the transit-related

685
01:14:48,490 --> 01:14:51,510
height allowances would not apply in the city.

686
01:14:53,580 --> 01:14:55,220
The Planning Commission recommended ordinance

687
01:14:55,220 --> 01:14:59,760
before you implement the outcome directly, no local ADU parking, transit-related

688
01:15:00,000 --> 01:15:29,260
Right remains tied to state criteria. Staff also has prepared an alternative ordinance for the council's consideration this evening. This alternative ordinance option reflects the draft that was presented by staff by both at both the public study session and the Planning Commission Public Hearing. This alternative retains the Planning Commission's parking policy, no local off-street parking requirements for A to use citywide, but the difference is in the treatment of height. Under the alternative ordinance, local microtransit,

689
01:15:29,260 --> 01:15:35,160
such as the Vine Shuttle would be recognized as public transit for the purposes of the transit-related

690
01:15:35,160 --> 01:15:42,000
high allowance. Qualifying properties therefore could utilize the 18-foot allowance or up to 20 feet

691
01:15:42,000 --> 01:15:45,980
where additional height is necessary to align the roof pitch with the primary residence.

692
01:15:47,140 --> 01:15:52,100
The alternative retains the one-half mile walking distance standard used in the state framework.

693
01:15:52,980 --> 01:15:56,820
Although their provisions of the ADO ordinance would remain the same as under the planning

694
01:15:56,820 --> 01:16:01,900
Commission's recommendation and I do want to emphasize that this is a local policy choice

695
01:16:01,900 --> 01:16:05,580
is not required by state law. This would be going above and beyond.

696
01:16:07,260 --> 01:16:09,640
So with that, next slide please.

697
01:16:11,460 --> 01:16:17,120
I would conclude the ADU portion of the presentation. The companion utility amendments are intended

698
01:16:17,120 --> 01:16:24,260
to establish a more consistent framework. For determining when existing water and sewer infrastructure

699
01:16:24,260 --> 01:16:30,240
The legislature can continue to serve new development, including ADU's, and I will turn the presentation over to Mr. Traverson.

700
01:16:31,440 --> 01:16:33,840
Thank you for that excellent brief report.

701
01:16:34,520 --> 01:16:35,520
Thank you, Miss O'Neill.

702
01:16:36,040 --> 01:16:38,340
Good evening, Mayor and councilmembers.

703
01:16:39,300 --> 01:16:43,140
The purpose of the Title 13 amendments are, next slide, please.

704
01:16:47,840 --> 01:16:55,640
The purpose of the Title 13 amendments is to establish a more consistent and technically based approach to the existing utility infrastructure.

705
01:16:55,640 --> 01:17:02,660
Rather than automatically requiring a separate or replacement connection simply because additional development is proposed,

706
01:17:03,320 --> 01:17:13,920
the amended and proposed ordinances focus on whether the existing infrastructure has adequate capacity and is in acceptable condition from a health and safety perspective.

707
01:17:14,920 --> 01:17:20,860
Ultimately, if the respective systems are adequate, they can continue to be used for additional development.

708
01:17:20,860 --> 01:17:27,680
If the systems are deficient, public works can require the necessary repair replacement or upgrade.

709
01:17:28,100 --> 01:17:34,380
This is an updated approach to address utilities for citywide development rather than just for ADUs,

710
01:17:35,100 --> 01:17:41,420
and creates a more effective, efficient, and equitable process and set of standards across the city.

711
01:17:42,040 --> 01:17:44,700
Next slide, previous slide.

712
01:17:44,700 --> 01:18:05,800
Regarding water service, the ordinance establishes circumstances that trigger review of the existing water service, including substantial development, major remodels, projects exceeding the specified construction cost threshold and expansion of a property's functional use.

713
01:18:05,800 --> 01:18:12,220
The evaluation looks at the existing service and meter size, available pressure, existing

714
01:18:12,220 --> 01:18:19,160
and proposed demand, applicable fire flow or sprinkler demand, and the material and condition

715
01:18:19,160 --> 01:18:19,780
of the service.

716
01:18:22,390 --> 01:18:27,410
Again, if the existing system is adequate, the applicant can move forward without additional

717
01:18:27,410 --> 01:18:27,890
improvements.

718
01:18:28,450 --> 01:18:33,650
The intent is to require the infrastructure that is actually necessary to serve the project

719
01:18:33,650 --> 01:18:39,510
rather than automatically requiring a new or additional service connection.

720
01:18:40,310 --> 01:18:41,590
Next slide, please.

721
01:18:44,360 --> 01:18:49,300
Regarding sewer service, the amendment follows the same general approach, but

722
01:18:49,300 --> 01:18:52,240
the evaluation is based on the physical condition of the sewer lateral.

723
01:18:53,400 --> 01:18:59,340
When one of the triggering development activities occurs, the applicant provides a video inspection and

724
01:18:59,340 --> 01:19:03,980
condition report to determine if the existing lateral is sufficient,

725
01:19:03,980 --> 01:19:17,400
including a review of its diameter, material, connection to the public sewer, and whether there are cracks, offsets, root intrusion, or other deficiencies with the infrastructure.

726
01:19:18,300 --> 01:19:22,800
If the existing lateral meets the standards, it can continue to serve the property.

727
01:19:24,620 --> 01:19:30,680
As we coordinate across planning and public works with regard to ADUs and JADUs,

728
01:19:30,680 --> 01:19:36,460
the proposed ordinances also allow connection to the existing utilities.

729
01:19:36,900 --> 01:19:43,240
Again, to bring this full circle, the purpose is to use adequate existing infrastructure

730
01:19:43,240 --> 01:19:46,740
where possible while correcting deficiencies were necessary.

731
01:19:47,660 --> 01:19:51,860
And with that, I'll turn it back to Ms. O'Neill for the recommended actions.

732
01:19:52,640 --> 01:19:52,900
Thank you.

733
01:19:54,980 --> 01:19:59,460
To reiterate, three separate ordinance actions before the council this evening.

734
01:19:59,460 --> 01:20:08,300
For the 80 ordinance staff is asking council to select either the planning commission recommended ordinance or the local micro transit alternative presented this evening.

735
01:20:08,900 --> 01:20:16,620
Council is also being asked to introduce and waive introduce the water service lateral ordinance and the sewer lateral ordinance.

736
01:20:17,140 --> 01:20:24,540
And staff recommends introduction of these ordinances with second readings tentatively scheduled for September 8.

737
01:20:26,140 --> 01:20:27,060
Next slide please.

738
01:20:28,300 --> 01:20:33,100
So that concludes staff's presentation, Mario, Director Mikhail, and I are available

739
01:20:33,100 --> 01:20:33,760
for questions.

740
01:20:33,760 --> 01:20:38,360
We can walk through any of the ordinance options, or the utility standards and more details

741
01:20:38,360 --> 01:20:39,220
if that's helpful.

742
01:20:39,440 --> 01:20:44,100
Also happy to bring back the recommendation slide if the Council desires to take an action

743
01:20:44,100 --> 01:20:44,580
this evening.

744
01:20:45,100 --> 01:20:45,460
Thank you.

745
01:20:45,720 --> 01:20:45,960
All right.

746
01:20:46,300 --> 01:20:47,640
Through the Mayor, Lisa Mikhail.

747
01:20:47,720 --> 01:20:48,000
Yes, please.

748
01:20:48,280 --> 01:20:49,440
Director of Community Development.

749
01:20:49,560 --> 01:20:54,340
I just want to highlight that there were a few public comments that were submitted and they

750
01:20:54,340 --> 01:21:00,000
were available online, generally in support, and some of them were requesting just some minor

751
01:21:00,000 --> 01:21:00,560
clarification.

752
01:21:01,320 --> 01:21:02,040
All right.

753
01:21:02,200 --> 01:21:04,760
We had received a comment from Josh DeBore.

754
01:21:05,160 --> 01:21:08,080
I'll follow up on some of his questions, Mary Stevenson.

755
01:21:08,600 --> 01:21:13,680
She did a great advertisement for a lender program here in the Napa Valley.

756
01:21:13,700 --> 01:21:17,020
I thought that was great, Ryan O'Connell, Michelle Kovale.

757
01:21:17,800 --> 01:21:24,040
I'm really struggling with this micro-transit concept because I can see, I guess the basic

758
01:21:24,040 --> 01:21:29,720
If fundamental question is half a mile from what, if you have a demand shuttle, I'm not really following that.

759
01:21:29,820 --> 01:21:33,080
Are you talking about a hub where a shuttle picks up folks?

760
01:21:33,380 --> 01:21:35,660
Where is this half mile two from where to where?

761
01:21:35,940 --> 01:21:37,040
I'm not following that part.

762
01:21:37,280 --> 01:21:38,000
Yeah, absolutely.

763
01:21:38,540 --> 01:21:43,120
So if you would like to, can you please go back to slide number seven?

764
01:21:46,420 --> 01:21:54,260
So highlighted here on the right, this is the service area for the vine shuttle, which is by enlarge the majority of the city.

765
01:21:54,260 --> 01:22:03,980
So it would be a half mile walking distance to anywhere that the vine shuttle serves or half mile walking distance to vine transit, which primarily goes along 29.

766
01:22:05,500 --> 01:22:12,240
So anywhere the fixed route or door to door shuttle, we would be expanding this to most of the city.

767
01:22:14,280 --> 01:22:16,200
All right, that sort of follows the rule.

768
01:22:16,360 --> 01:22:20,980
I think that that, well, we'll have more conversation about that.

769
01:22:21,140 --> 01:22:23,580
I'm open to that, but I understand that.

770
01:22:23,840 --> 01:22:26,380
I was under the impression there would be going to at least someplace,

771
01:22:26,520 --> 01:22:30,520
somebody's walking downtown to be picked up by a shuttle because it would not make sense.

772
01:22:31,020 --> 01:22:35,220
I'm still honestly struggling with that concept, but we'll talk about it a little bit more.

773
01:22:35,540 --> 01:22:36,420
So it's everywhere.

774
01:22:36,420 --> 01:22:45,840
So there's a potential 18 or 20 foot height anywhere in the city if you if you look at it under your your analysis half mile from everywhere in the city, correct?

775
01:22:46,560 --> 01:22:50,900
Half mile from everywhere that's within the service area, which is shaded and red.

776
01:22:51,340 --> 01:22:53,140
Okay, which is everywhere?

777
01:22:53,480 --> 01:23:06,280
It does, there are some areas, 820 and, you know, woodland areas that aren't served by this, but by and large it is the majority of our developed residents.

778
01:23:06,420 --> 01:23:11,100
other comments and I will open it for public comment, I just wanted to get that out.

779
01:23:11,400 --> 01:23:30,360
So what about Mr. DeBoer's comment in terms of his concern that one of the criteria to open up an investigation of either your water or your sewer pipe on your property could be triggered by a threshold of $100,000 of cost.

780
01:23:30,360 --> 01:23:33,520
Is that, that's a little bit of potential unintended consequence.

781
01:23:33,520 --> 01:23:39,880
But maybe the intent is not to have any and all construction that's over $100,000.

782
01:23:40,440 --> 01:23:43,060
Necessarily trigger that or am I wrong there?

783
01:23:43,420 --> 01:23:44,600
Who would want to take that one on?

784
01:23:46,020 --> 01:23:46,960
Yeah, thank you.

785
01:23:47,160 --> 01:23:56,560
The intent is to enforce the requirement, the existing requirement of owners responsibility for

786
01:23:56,560 --> 01:24:06,000
maintenance of their sewer in a fashion that's proportional to a secondary project or a main project.

787
01:24:06,840 --> 01:24:23,580
So the $100,000 threshold seemed, it seems appropriate in the sense that the added cost of what it would take to inspect the sewer lateral or fix and sewer lateral components.

788
01:24:23,580 --> 01:24:29,100
At $100,000, it seemed acceptable.

789
01:24:30,800 --> 01:24:32,080
All right.

790
01:24:33,180 --> 01:24:39,560
Do you know offhand roughly what the costs are, all the costs taken together for an inspection

791
01:24:39,560 --> 01:24:45,100
and, without even the repairs, just getting to that point and doing the CCTV and those kind

792
01:24:45,100 --> 01:24:50,720
of things roughly and a report by a local engineering company probably, I don't know who would

793
01:24:50,720 --> 01:24:51,020
do that.

794
01:24:51,020 --> 01:24:55,380
But roughly what cost are we talking about is that $5,000, $2,000, $10,000?

795
01:24:55,460 --> 01:25:03,640
Yeah, I can imagine the actual investigation, the TVing, and the report could be under $1,000.

796
01:25:03,860 --> 01:25:04,180
Okay.

797
01:25:04,600 --> 01:25:13,700
In most cases, maybe in the $400 range, repairs can be anywhere from $1,000 to a few thousand.

798
01:25:14,760 --> 01:25:24,400
Significant repairs could be 5,000, a whole new sewer lateral connecting to the street could be in the $10,000 to $25,000 range.

799
01:25:26,240 --> 01:25:32,960
By the way, if I neglected to say so already, excellent work by the staff and in a really kind of timely period.

800
01:25:33,080 --> 01:25:42,120
And I actually like the way you've structured the different elements of our code with chapter 13, chapter 17, and having that coordination.

801
01:25:42,120 --> 01:25:48,440
and not having so much language where it gets almost daunting and confused and going back and forth, that's excellent work.

802
01:25:48,560 --> 01:25:52,540
I'm very supportive of it, just had a couple questions on those minor issues.

803
01:25:52,700 --> 01:25:58,740
But other questions before I open it to public comment, clarifying questions, maybe mine weren't clarifying,

804
01:25:58,920 --> 01:25:59,880
but maybe they were.

805
01:25:59,980 --> 01:26:02,380
Hopefully they clarified things for others, but yeah, Ms. Batterotto.

806
01:26:02,620 --> 01:26:06,820
So my clarifying question would be regarding the roof lines.

807
01:26:06,820 --> 01:26:12,980
So, if you were to say these all these homes in that shaded area within the city of St. Helena,

808
01:26:14,260 --> 01:26:20,880
the ADU roofline could never, though, encroach over the roofline of the main house, correct?

809
01:26:21,520 --> 01:26:24,480
Or are you saying it can go up to 1820 feet regardless?

810
01:26:28,960 --> 01:26:34,660
The ordinance doesn't speak to limiting the height of the ADU, not to exceed the height of

811
01:26:34,660 --> 01:26:41,840
of a primary residence, the additional 20 feet is if it is needed to align the ADU roof

812
01:26:41,840 --> 01:26:47,040
pitch with a primary residence, ostensibly I suppose you could have a situation where an

813
01:26:47,040 --> 01:26:49,500
ADU could be taller than a primary residence.

814
01:26:50,060 --> 01:26:55,820
And through the mayor, the pleasure of the City Council, if you so chose to add language

815
01:26:55,820 --> 01:27:01,940
that would ensure that an ADU's ridge does not exceed the primary in any case, we can certainly

816
01:27:01,940 --> 01:27:02,320
add that.

817
01:27:02,320 --> 01:27:10,000
All right, let me take a moment to open public comment and as I said we've received a fair amount of really good public comment

818
01:27:10,000 --> 01:27:16,740
But others wishing to comment now there may be more questions on on some of the comments have come already

819
01:27:18,340 --> 01:27:19,180
Mr. Devoir

820
01:27:20,120 --> 01:27:24,520
No, you're going to talk and you sat the furthest away from the podium

821
01:27:25,080 --> 01:27:27,320
Okay, well, that's important. That's important

822
01:27:28,300 --> 01:27:30,220
Thank you, Mr. Mayor, Council.

823
01:27:30,300 --> 01:27:30,540
Good evening.

824
01:27:31,180 --> 01:27:47,740
Yeah, I did email one concern about just the dollar threshold on the sewer lateral because there doesn't appear to be any nexus between replacing your sewer and a random $100,000 project that might have nothing at all to do with water or wastewater.

825
01:27:47,740 --> 01:27:53,400
water right and so that seems problematic to me just as a matter of law right I mean there's

826
01:27:53,400 --> 01:27:59,260
got to be some nexus between the condition that's imposed and the requirement to inspect

827
01:27:59,260 --> 01:28:03,180
your sewer and if all you're doing is replacing windows or putting on solar panels or replacing

828
01:28:03,180 --> 01:28:09,500
your roof having no water change whatsoever and you could easily spend $100,000 on that then

829
01:28:09,500 --> 01:28:14,640
this condition just has no nexus whatsoever to that project and so a pure dollar threshold

830
01:28:14,640 --> 01:28:21,260
that doesn't also mention, and it touches on water in some way, would appear to be unconstitutional.

831
01:28:21,680 --> 01:28:24,580
But, you know, it's not saying it's not a good idea, right?

832
01:28:25,260 --> 01:28:29,200
And so, you know, this is just minor tweaks to the language.

833
01:28:30,280 --> 01:28:36,480
And, you know, it's got to be $100,000 and touch a plumbing device in some way or another, right?

834
01:28:36,600 --> 01:28:40,320
Just so that there's some connection between the project and the sewer line.

835
01:28:41,760 --> 01:28:55,060
And to the mayor's question of how much does this cost, it costs a lot, okay, and it may be unnecessary and this is from personal experience where we had our sewer line scoped five years ago.

836
01:28:55,940 --> 01:29:06,080
And there are roots in our, and we live on grub court next to that giant tree, right, that we are watering that tree from our sewer line, it will cost $30,000 to replace.

837
01:29:06,080 --> 01:29:12,100
place. That was the quote five years ago. So this is not a minor cost. And if we were

838
01:29:12,100 --> 01:29:18,740
thinking of spending $100,000 on some random project, that project is now $140,000 probably.

839
01:29:20,100 --> 01:29:26,540
And add on to that that our street was just repaved. So we can't trench in our street now.

840
01:29:26,820 --> 01:29:31,300
There's more Torium on digging up our street because it was just repaved. So that would kill

841
01:29:31,300 --> 01:29:37,200
our project, right, for years because we now have to replace the sewer line that's working

842
01:29:37,200 --> 01:29:42,920
fine, right, gets cleaned out, you know, there are roots in it, but it works. And so, you

843
01:29:42,920 --> 01:29:47,100
know, a mandatory requirement to replace a sewer line, anytime you do a $100,000 project

844
01:29:47,100 --> 01:29:56,640
that's not changing your water flow is a practical problem, right. And so, and since I've got

845
01:29:56,640 --> 01:29:59,940
I'm in it in 30 seconds left. I do want to talk just a little bit about...

846
01:30:00,000 --> 01:30:28,820
I think it's just a minute, according to Mr. Bradley, I'm looking at him, but keep going. But in any event, you know, the micro transit notion that, you know, the entire town is now within half a mile of a transit center, and therefore you can have, well, let's call it what this is, right? You can have an 18-foot tall pool house for feet from your fence up to 1200 square feet, right? And my reading of the resolution is actually eliminates the minimum bedroom requirement, right?

847
01:30:28,820 --> 01:30:32,760
So you don't even have to have a bedroom, and you don't have to have a parking space.

848
01:30:33,440 --> 01:30:40,120
So this is the pool house facilitation bill of 2026, and so look if that's what we want, great.

849
01:30:41,040 --> 01:30:46,380
But we should just call a, you know, a pool house, if that's what we want to let people build.

850
01:30:47,120 --> 01:30:51,900
And if you want to let people go up to 18 feet, or feet from your fence line, that's what this bill does.

851
01:30:53,960 --> 01:30:54,400
Thank you.

852
01:30:54,400 --> 01:30:55,540
All right, thank you.

853
01:30:57,600 --> 01:31:03,340
I call it my retirement house if my daughter will have me.

854
01:31:05,480 --> 01:31:05,980
Evening.

855
01:31:06,000 --> 01:31:07,260
Ms. Park, good evening.

856
01:31:08,440 --> 01:31:13,480
He stole my first comment, which was around the monetary trigger.

857
01:31:14,540 --> 01:31:18,200
I think in general, codifying a monetary trigger is tricky,

858
01:31:18,240 --> 01:31:21,620
because what happens 10 years from now, 20 years from now,

859
01:31:21,860 --> 01:31:23,260
when money is less valuable.

860
01:31:24,100 --> 01:31:29,760
and also the analogy of, you can easily spend a hundred grand replacing windows.

861
01:31:30,260 --> 01:31:31,600
Is that an appropriate trigger?

862
01:31:33,100 --> 01:31:34,360
Logically it seems not.

863
01:31:35,460 --> 01:31:40,420
But I disagree about the language of we're just codifying pool houses

864
01:31:41,120 --> 01:31:44,640
because per the state you can do 16 feet period.

865
01:31:46,640 --> 01:31:52,120
So it's not as if you say, well no, we're not acknowledging the microtransit aspect

866
01:31:52,120 --> 01:31:55,420
that you automatically can't have the same structure.

867
01:31:56,560 --> 01:31:58,700
Because at up to 800 square feet,

868
01:31:59,040 --> 01:32:01,840
you can do anything you want within those state confines.

869
01:32:02,380 --> 01:32:06,540
So really it's about, how can we begin a conversation

870
01:32:06,540 --> 01:32:10,740
around facilitating actual housing as well?

871
01:32:11,180 --> 01:32:14,620
And as Mary mentioned, there are lots of programs

872
01:32:14,620 --> 01:32:18,500
to help turn ADUs into actual affordable housing.

873
01:32:18,500 --> 01:32:21,880
and it takes a year to build one.

874
01:32:23,060 --> 01:32:26,060
How long does it take to build a development?

875
01:32:27,440 --> 01:32:29,960
Ten years? Easy.

876
01:32:31,500 --> 01:32:35,000
So it's a valuable mechanism for the town

877
01:32:35,720 --> 01:32:38,700
and I think that the more simple you make it

878
01:32:38,700 --> 01:32:42,020
for Paul's comments, the better it is.

879
01:32:42,360 --> 01:32:46,980
Help incentivize people wanting to make progress

880
01:32:46,980 --> 01:32:53,120
through housing and this is the lowest hang fruit that we have right now. It's

881
01:32:53,120 --> 01:32:59,800
rotting on the ground so keep it simple and pick it up. All right thank you.

882
01:33:04,190 --> 01:33:13,870
Not seen anyone jump to the podium so I will close and okay folks come with a

883
01:33:13,870 --> 01:33:19,870
game plan. Thanks. Sorry Paul. All right that's right. I just wanted to jump in

884
01:33:19,870 --> 01:33:27,910
here. And I think Josh Javore's comment letter is 100% accurate. I think the tail end

885
01:33:27,910 --> 01:33:41,330
of his characterization of a pool house is not accurate. And I think that needs, that's

886
01:33:41,330 --> 01:33:46,970
your job to, to, to sus out the, the difference there, and I think it's kind of important.

887
01:33:50,570 --> 01:33:59,190
The, an ADU has to have a bedroom, a pool house is not technically a bedroom and can only,

888
01:33:59,230 --> 01:34:07,390
can only be 16 feet. I think that needs to be, and I think planning and staff can clarify that.

889
01:34:09,410 --> 01:34:18,890
I mean, I think the language of this is complicated and sometimes awkward.

890
01:34:19,810 --> 01:34:36,250
I think on the transit stop, I think it's important for you to understand that for years our ordinance has said that if you have a transit stop, you can go to 18 feet.

891
01:34:36,250 --> 01:34:46,110
which is a reflection of state law, what's missing in that ordinance language is the understanding.

892
01:34:46,350 --> 01:34:52,670
And you have to go like three layers deep to understand, you have to go to the state, you have to go to the MTA,

893
01:34:52,870 --> 01:35:02,590
you have to go to all sorts of places that aren't in our municipal code to understand that we have no transit stop.

894
01:35:02,590 --> 01:35:13,930
So that piece of code that implies if you're casually, or even specifically reading it,

895
01:35:14,810 --> 01:35:26,610
that, okay, if I want to build, put a second floor on my garage, that might be a productive ADU.

896
01:35:28,630 --> 01:35:37,790
And the reading of that code says that if you have a transit stop within a half mile, and everybody who lives in here in St.

897
01:35:37,850 --> 01:35:56,510
Alina says, hey, I'm a half mile from the post office or from the couple of line stops or the bus stations, but the fact is we have no greyhound station here that the specific rule of transit stop is pretty rigorous.

898
01:35:56,510 --> 01:36:02,910
and it's an inner city bus stop, so it does not apply here.

899
01:36:03,470 --> 01:36:11,390
That's an awkward rule that is now up to you guys to kind of figure

900
01:36:11,390 --> 01:36:16,750
out how do you apply that awkward rule to the reality of living in St.

901
01:36:16,790 --> 01:36:24,910
Alina. The effort on some of the comments and staff here is to kind

902
01:36:24,910 --> 01:36:28,990
kind of nuance that to apply to the actual condition of St.

903
01:36:29,150 --> 01:36:39,110
Alina, where we have the vine service that is quite flexible.

904
01:36:39,750 --> 01:36:44,050
And we also have Uber and Lyft and different sorts of things.

905
01:36:45,570 --> 01:36:48,670
And I'm not suggesting how you come to that conclusion, but

906
01:36:48,670 --> 01:36:53,710
I don't think it's acceptable to not consider the complication and

907
01:36:53,710 --> 01:37:02,350
discuss it and come up with a path, that is entirely what I'm trying to say.

908
01:37:03,130 --> 01:37:04,290
So thank you.

909
01:45:00,000 --> 01:45:29,360
Change his hand that the city will do a rental inspection to ensure there aren't co-enforcement issues, same with, you know, for sale, properties when, when there's a sale, some communities will do an inspection just in its, it's a co-enforcement effort, right? To make sure that things are being held up to that standard. That being said, I think this ordinance is kind of doing two different things, right? One is to deal with kind of the issue of if someone is expanding, we want to make sure there is capacity.

910
01:45:29,360 --> 01:45:55,760
and really that is Mr. DeVore makes the correct point, I think, that one and two and really part of four are dealing with that issue, and then the other two, the $100,000 threshold, and then the expansion of kind of floor area, those two are really, they're dealing with a separate issue of just as a trigger to initiate inspection.

911
01:45:55,760 --> 01:45:59,760
So if you wanted to take those out, that's a policy decision.

912
01:45:59,920 --> 01:46:05,440
There wouldn't be a such a broad spectrum of inspections being done.

913
01:46:05,560 --> 01:46:13,280
It would be more focused on things that were further burdening our system, and that would trigger an inspection.

914
01:46:13,600 --> 01:46:24,020
So there are examples in California probably throughout the United States of these kinds of inspections being triggered by something other than a plumbing issue or an impact on plumbing.

915
01:46:24,020 --> 01:46:30,420
And I think, for example, in Santa Cruz, you have to go through, on a sale, you have to do an inspection, correct?

916
01:46:30,640 --> 01:46:34,780
And now that's being more had nothing to do with the plumbing, but that's the trend.

917
01:46:35,860 --> 01:46:40,880
And now there's East Bay mud, now there's a $100,000 threshold for inspections.

918
01:46:41,600 --> 01:46:43,200
Okay, let me bring it back.

919
01:46:43,340 --> 01:46:47,080
We all think anybody want to opine on this, I'm in favor of it.

920
01:46:47,080 --> 01:46:52,280
I'm not sure about the micro transit thing, but yeah, Mr. Barrett, and I'll go to unit.

921
01:46:52,280 --> 01:46:55,120
Yeah, I actually have some clarifying questions.

922
01:46:55,740 --> 01:46:57,280
Well, you can have any questions you want in this case.

923
01:46:57,540 --> 01:46:59,160
Yeah, we're blowing debate now.

924
01:47:01,180 --> 01:47:19,620
So I want to be clear that the 1200 square foot component on page I think was slide three is not part of this ordinance that that was just reflective on the community outreach and some consensus of some ideas.

925
01:47:19,980 --> 01:47:20,440
Is that correct?

926
01:47:20,440 --> 01:47:35,260
So the 1200 square foot is the maximum that is allowed under the state law and this was supported in the study sessions that were held in April and also at the public hearing before the Planning Commission in June.

927
01:47:35,580 --> 01:47:39,040
So it's supported in state law but not yet ordinance here.

928
01:47:39,180 --> 01:47:41,780
We've implemented it in this ordinance.

929
01:47:42,140 --> 01:47:49,460
Okay, so confusing. That page made it seem like if we've already done it, not sure what the-

930
01:47:49,460 --> 01:48:00,340
So, we implemented increasing the maximum ADU size to 1200 square feet, our prior ordinance limited an ADU to 1000 square feet, which is permissible under the law.

931
01:48:00,460 --> 01:48:07,060
It's a policy choice that's available to cities, but the maximum that the state law allows for is a 1200 square foot.

932
01:48:07,280 --> 01:48:09,760
Okay, but what, and we've already done that?

933
01:48:10,380 --> 01:48:11,860
That is before you tonight.

934
01:48:12,080 --> 01:48:15,640
Okay, so that was my question, so you are asking us to do that.

935
01:48:15,640 --> 01:48:16,000
Yes.

936
01:48:16,280 --> 01:48:16,520
Okay.

937
01:48:16,740 --> 01:48:18,520
And if I may add as well.

938
01:48:18,700 --> 01:48:18,960
You may.

939
01:48:19,360 --> 01:48:28,280
What I found in previous jurisdictions when they start to tear who can get what, when,

940
01:48:28,400 --> 01:48:35,660
and how mistakes occur both at the local staff level as well as the public.

941
01:48:36,240 --> 01:48:41,860
And so what we've done in other jurisdictions is just make it an equal bar.

942
01:48:41,860 --> 01:48:59,820
So, 1,200 square feet is what the state allows and so we've gone ahead and equaled what the state allows and it's been 1,200 square feet as a cap for quite some time I don't envision that changing anytime soon even though we see a lot of ADU laws changing almost every year.

943
01:49:02,020 --> 01:49:12,000
Further clarification is the removal of the material and roof matching and the mandatory rent reporting also part of this ordinance.

944
01:49:12,600 --> 01:49:13,240
I'm assuming yes.

945
01:49:13,480 --> 01:49:13,620
Yes.

946
01:49:14,240 --> 01:49:19,200
And the mandatory, the, yes, the removal of the current barriers.

947
01:49:19,480 --> 01:49:27,260
And I do just want to clarify, we had it codified that rent reporting was required and that is not permissible under state law.

948
01:49:27,260 --> 01:49:35,080
We are still encouraging optional participation and surveys and they are coming in so I think people are

949
01:49:35,780 --> 01:49:39,740
willing to share that information with us. We just can't codify it

950
01:49:40,540 --> 01:49:43,480
Great and sorry one one more question

951
01:49:44,700 --> 01:49:49,850
The laterals both sewer and water so I

952
01:49:50,760 --> 01:49:56,620
Was aware that the water every new ADU automatically had to get a separate water connection

953
01:49:57,260 --> 01:50:02,900
Regardless of the main house water supply that was just that's what we have today correct correct

954
01:50:03,620 --> 01:50:04,620
the sewer

955
01:50:05,300 --> 01:50:07,100
Is it the same? I

956
01:50:07,860 --> 01:50:16,980
Do does each ADU need a separate sewer line as well? Our current code requires a separate sewer lateral for the ADU in the house

957
01:50:17,640 --> 01:50:22,640
Wow, okay, and so the proposal there is to do away with those and

958
01:50:22,640 --> 01:50:29,760
and evaluate the actual property and try to do the right thing for the actual homeowner, right?

959
01:50:29,860 --> 01:50:33,640
Absolutely, that's awesome, really great.

960
01:50:34,660 --> 01:50:41,580
What about, so I'm speaking for all the folks that have gone through the ADU process in the past?

961
01:50:42,780 --> 01:50:44,300
What about those folks?

962
01:50:44,540 --> 01:50:50,840
Do they now have options to disconnect and connect if they wish?

963
01:50:52,140 --> 01:51:04,100
So, we have discussed that preliminary, or we've started to discuss what the options would be for all the residents who now have two water services and two sewer laterals.

964
01:51:06,100 --> 01:51:12,600
We will have to come back with answers to that.

965
01:51:13,880 --> 01:51:14,260
Okay.

966
01:51:15,120 --> 01:51:25,500
Yes, there is definitely options for combining the water service in a manner that's efficient, but we're in discussions regarding that right now.

967
01:51:25,560 --> 01:51:30,060
Okay, my view there is, I think that's important, right?

968
01:51:30,220 --> 01:51:36,960
Because I can see why we want to make those changes and make it easier for future residents in the town to be able to use.

969
01:51:37,860 --> 01:51:44,260
But we have, you know, justice for the current residents who were following the rules.

970
01:51:44,600 --> 01:51:50,400
Sometimes I'm sure wondering why do I have to do this, but I guess I have to do this.

971
01:51:51,000 --> 01:51:55,260
And now we're going paying two water connects, two sewer connects.

972
01:51:57,020 --> 01:51:59,940
I think we need to look at that and be equitable there.

973
01:52:01,400 --> 01:52:08,660
I'm not sold on the changes to the roof materials,

974
01:52:08,900 --> 01:52:12,860
because I think we need to think about not that we haven't,

975
01:52:12,960 --> 01:52:18,880
but at least I'm thinking about right now what that can do from a look and feel of a town, right?

976
01:52:19,580 --> 01:52:23,780
You know, you got your neighbors, people like nice places, people like a nice neighborhood,

977
01:52:23,780 --> 01:52:32,080
And if anything goes, I don't know if you guys remember Vancouver BC in the 80s.

978
01:52:32,660 --> 01:52:37,440
Suddenly there was painting hot paint houses next to it.

979
01:52:37,440 --> 01:52:40,960
There was a real problem there that they finally arrested.

980
01:52:41,560 --> 01:52:46,540
So things will happen when you loosen things too much without any compensating controls.

981
01:52:47,220 --> 01:52:48,840
Yeah, I'd be happy to speak to that.

982
01:52:48,840 --> 01:52:48,980
Sure.

983
01:52:49,340 --> 01:52:54,160
So under state law, ADUs are in two different classifications.

984
01:52:54,460 --> 01:53:00,480
There's a class one ADU, which is an ADU that's up to 800 square feet, 16 feet in height,

985
01:53:00,480 --> 01:53:02,940
and has at least four foot rear and side yard setbacks.

986
01:53:03,300 --> 01:53:06,960
For those, we have no control over any of the architectural requirements,

987
01:53:07,160 --> 01:53:09,100
including materials and roof materials.

988
01:53:09,620 --> 01:53:14,660
For a class two ADU, it would be anything that's at that 800 square foot threshold.

989
01:53:14,660 --> 01:53:20,740
And under a curtain ordinance up to 1,000 square feet under a proposal, it would be the 1,200 square feet.

990
01:53:20,860 --> 01:53:24,940
So we're talking about ADUs that are between 200 or 400 square feet larger.

991
01:53:25,560 --> 01:53:31,740
That's when we have the option to have some more control over architectural requirements.

992
01:53:32,020 --> 01:53:39,620
This goes back to director MacKyle's point where when we start tearing things, we get into more complications.

993
01:53:39,620 --> 01:53:42,080
It's harder to streamline things.

994
01:53:42,600 --> 01:53:44,700
You've got a neighbor who's got an 800 square foot.

995
01:53:44,820 --> 01:53:47,080
They didn't have to have roof matching requirements.

996
01:53:47,480 --> 01:53:49,500
You want to have an 801 square foot.

997
01:53:49,660 --> 01:53:51,100
Now you've got roof matching requirements.

998
01:53:51,440 --> 01:53:53,360
It's a bit more complicated.

999
01:53:53,720 --> 01:53:57,160
So in some ways, the architectural standards,

1000
01:53:57,160 --> 01:54:00,800
ship has already sailed for the majority of ADUs

1001
01:54:00,800 --> 01:54:02,840
which do come in as class 180s.

1002
01:54:03,700 --> 01:54:05,500
I'll just supplement also.

1003
01:54:05,500 --> 01:54:15,960
So we have seen some of these concerns of inequity, basically, when you've got one neighbor

1004
01:54:15,960 --> 01:54:23,280
who has the ability to do something in right next door just because of a minor increase

1005
01:54:23,280 --> 01:54:26,500
in florear or square footage that they have a different set of standards.

1006
01:54:26,500 --> 01:54:33,560
And again, back to application of efficiency and being correct in your application.

1007
01:54:33,560 --> 01:54:47,140
There's nothing, you know, that we like less than having mistakes happen, so we don't like to have that happen, and it does happen when there's different variations of code to apply.

1008
01:54:47,780 --> 01:54:52,480
So that's our personal professional opinion, but it's again at the pleasure of the council.

1009
01:54:52,480 --> 01:54:56,000
So, and what do we think of the size increase, 1200 square feet.

1010
01:54:56,560 --> 01:55:02,800
It seems like less than 80 and more of a smaller single family home to me.

1011
01:55:03,380 --> 01:55:06,460
That's a big, that's a big, big space.

1012
01:55:11,370 --> 01:55:12,070
All right, open you.

1013
01:55:12,330 --> 01:55:13,230
The vice mayor has a thought on that.

1014
01:55:14,530 --> 01:55:16,990
I have to do my job here, let's have a conversation, okay.

1015
01:55:17,250 --> 01:55:17,950
How about that?

1016
01:55:18,670 --> 01:55:25,430
Well, first I did want to say that just the $100,000 water sewer trigger does feel a little blunt.

1017
01:55:25,430 --> 01:55:34,790
and like it will be quickly very little money but on the it does feel like a big 1200 square feet

1018
01:55:34,790 --> 01:55:41,950
like a home and so I wondered is there especially with the roof height and it does start getting

1019
01:55:41,950 --> 01:55:47,270
into tears but I wondered if if something is bigger above 800 square feet and you want to do the

1020
01:55:47,270 --> 01:55:55,130
higher roof could you do that if it's deed restricted in some way or you know that there are renters

1021
01:55:55,130 --> 01:55:57,110
there, or maybe that's too crazy.

1022
01:55:57,310 --> 01:56:00,730
Oh, and that last point is, when you talk about,

1023
01:56:02,090 --> 01:56:03,690
are they really going to be rented?

1024
01:56:04,590 --> 01:56:08,430
Is there a way to count family in there

1025
01:56:08,430 --> 01:56:11,950
in a different generation as a renter?

1026
01:56:12,290 --> 01:56:12,650
Those are my.

1027
01:56:13,530 --> 01:56:16,190
Yeah, families included as a renter if they qualify, right?

1028
01:56:17,410 --> 01:56:21,750
Yes, and I'll highlight where I believe the state's coming

1029
01:56:21,750 --> 01:56:27,910
from in these amendments that we see a lot of new law and legislation coming forward for

1030
01:56:27,910 --> 01:56:33,250
housing. They want more housing and they want it for families and people to hopefully

1031
01:56:33,250 --> 01:56:40,070
have more affordable units. Certainly, the difference between 800 square feet and 1200 square

1032
01:56:40,070 --> 01:56:46,970
feet is not the same as 800 in 2000. And so the state has had 1200 square feet for

1033
01:56:46,970 --> 01:56:49,910
over a decade now as a standard.

1034
01:56:50,410 --> 01:56:57,430
If the city desires to limit that square footage they can, as long as it's consistent

1035
01:56:57,430 --> 01:57:01,170
with state law, and again, it's at the pleasure of the council.

1036
01:57:04,150 --> 01:57:07,830
Mr. Mayor, if I could just ask for one clarifying point here.

1037
01:57:08,870 --> 01:57:14,290
Councilmember Barrick asked about the water and sewer laterals, whether it's required

1038
01:57:14,290 --> 01:57:14,930
to have two.

1039
01:57:14,930 --> 01:57:21,590
And I think the correct answer is that you must have individual water laterals.

1040
01:57:21,950 --> 01:57:25,950
The code does also say that you must have individual sewer laterals.

1041
01:57:26,250 --> 01:57:34,670
Although you can reduce that and share a common lateral in those cases where you demonstrate that you have adequate sewer service.

1042
01:57:34,950 --> 01:57:35,330
Isn't that correct?

1043
01:57:37,130 --> 01:57:40,910
Thank you, that was where my brain was before.

1044
01:57:41,870 --> 01:57:42,190
Thank you.

1045
01:57:44,750 --> 01:57:49,130
All right, any other comments from my, this bad road, of course.

1046
01:57:49,550 --> 01:57:50,170
Thank you.

1047
01:57:51,970 --> 01:57:57,210
I just want to kind of make a maybe a comment regarding the 1200 square foot ADU.

1048
01:57:58,050 --> 01:58:02,130
And maybe this is a clarifying question, but from what I understand, obviously there are

1049
01:58:02,130 --> 01:58:05,030
step back requirements, things of that nature.

1050
01:58:05,430 --> 01:58:10,050
So you're not going to have a 1200 square foot ADU on a quarter acre property.

1051
01:58:10,050 --> 01:58:22,930
That's where you're going to have maybe like an 800 to, you know, 1,000, whatever square foot, not necessarily 1,200 square foot, second home on, you know, a small property within city limits.

1052
01:58:22,930 --> 01:58:24,090
So,

1053
01:58:26,290 --> 01:58:40,770
if the council approves, you know, the increase to the 1200 square feet consistent with state laws allowance, the setbacks are 4 feet and that's for any ADU regardless of it being 800 square feet, 200 square feet, or 1200.

1054
01:58:41,470 --> 01:58:50,170
Okay. Can I follow up on that? So for the class 2 ADUs, maybe I should start. Class 1 ADUs

1055
01:58:50,170 --> 01:58:57,350
cannot be limited by floor area or lock coverage, but anything that's beyond 800 square feet

1056
01:58:57,350 --> 01:59:04,270
we can look at that additional, that whatever the nexus is beyond the 800 square feet as it

1057
01:59:04,270 --> 01:59:10,190
applies to the floor area lock coverage for the site. So if you have a site that's already

1058
01:59:10,190 --> 01:59:16,270
at their max gross floor area or their max lot coverage, they would be limited to the 800

1059
01:59:16,270 --> 01:59:22,650
square foot ADU. So I think to get into your point, a larger parcel would more likely be

1060
01:59:22,650 --> 01:59:28,310
able to have a larger ADU where a smaller parcel may not be able to go up to that full 1200

1061
01:59:28,310 --> 01:59:34,330
square feet. But in no case can we deny anything smaller than 800 square feet and in no case

1062
01:59:34,330 --> 01:59:38,190
Can we limit the max ADU cap to anything less than 1,000?

1063
01:59:44,410 --> 01:59:46,650
I do appreciate all of your clarifications.

1064
01:59:46,970 --> 01:59:48,870
You know the subject matter very well.

1065
01:59:49,250 --> 01:59:50,490
All of you, so I'm impressed.

1066
01:59:50,910 --> 01:59:51,170
Bye, Scott.

1067
01:59:51,630 --> 01:59:55,250
I keep going back to this huge ADU just for fun

1068
01:59:55,250 --> 01:59:59,310
versus a larger ADU that's taller, that's housing someone.

1069
01:59:59,310 --> 01:59:59,950
And so...

1070
02:00:00,000 --> 02:00:29,760
Is there a way to say it? You know, you can do the extra height on that 1200 square foot thing if it's deed restricted or something like that. So our zoning ordinance differentiates, for the example of pool house, differentiates between an accessory structure and a dwelling unit as does the building code. So if somebody comes in and they want an approval of an accessory dwelling unit, they're applying for an accessory dwelling unit and they be subject to those rules and zoning standards. If they're applying for

1071
02:00:29,760 --> 02:00:32,820
a pool house and not an accessory dwelling unit.

1072
02:00:33,160 --> 02:00:38,800
They'd be subject to accessory, well, our accessory structure zoning development standards.

1073
02:00:39,200 --> 02:00:44,000
There's still no requirement that anyone lives there and that would have to do with deed restrictions, sort of.

1074
02:00:44,340 --> 02:00:52,660
That's correct, and I would say that that's a complicated avenue to go into.

1075
02:00:52,800 --> 02:00:59,240
I think I do want to point out that we are required under our housing element to comply with the state.

1076
02:00:59,240 --> 02:01:12,260
one of our programs is to update this ordinance. If the council desired, we could look at from a policy decision, you know, future considerations of deed restrictions, but I'm not sure if council has anything to add.

1077
02:01:15,380 --> 02:01:18,120
Are you seeing in terms of somebody actually living there?

1078
02:01:20,480 --> 02:01:25,980
It seems like, well, okay, if you're bigger and you want the extra height, you have to have someone living there.

1079
02:01:27,140 --> 02:01:40,360
I see how complicated it sounds really simple until you actually, I would say I'm not sure if you could do that for that, I can tell you as a practical matter, it's not realistic.

1080
02:01:40,360 --> 02:01:40,660
I

1081
02:01:46,770 --> 02:01:54,650
want you to bring back that recommendation slide, and then we can continue to talk in, yeah, go ahead.

1082
02:01:54,990 --> 02:01:55,590
Thank you, Mr. Mayor.

1083
02:01:55,750 --> 02:02:03,490
I just wanted to add one point of clarification, and it came through some of your line of questioning around the public transit and some uncertainties.

1084
02:02:03,590 --> 02:02:11,630
There were two inclusions in the staff's alternative, which was the vine shuttle as well as the vine transit.

1085
02:02:11,910 --> 02:02:12,750
They're different.

1086
02:02:12,750 --> 02:02:19,690
And so, if it seems like it was too much when you're looking at the Vine Shuttle, but you like the idea of

1087
02:02:20,390 --> 02:02:21,330
half-mile

1088
02:02:21,330 --> 02:02:27,950
micro transit for the Vine transit line along Highway 29. That's another alternative that's

1089
02:02:27,950 --> 02:02:30,030
maybe a little bit more incremental

1090
02:02:30,650 --> 02:02:33,210
towards that local policy shift if so desire.

1091
02:02:34,970 --> 02:02:40,210
Yeah, I thank you for bringing up that that distinction that is important. That's probably where I'm leaning, but

1092
02:02:40,210 --> 02:02:42,490
But anything else, anybody?

1093
02:02:43,350 --> 02:02:53,310
First of all, are we at a point where we can make a motion one way or another, or are we still needing more clarification and maybe suggested recommendation changes?

1094
02:02:54,170 --> 02:02:57,630
I'm satisfied with some of the answer that brought up some good points, Mr. Barrick.

1095
02:02:57,710 --> 02:02:59,490
I think most of them satisfied me.

1096
02:03:01,450 --> 02:03:09,170
I'm not a big fan of this micro transit policy, but I would be okay with sort of the tone down version of a public transit.

1097
02:03:09,170 --> 02:03:17,550
close to Highway 29 actual place where folks get out of bus, even though that may not be the reality in our community.

1098
02:03:18,010 --> 02:03:22,510
The other thing just seems very bizarre, but Ms. Baderot, do you have something?

1099
02:03:24,230 --> 02:03:32,390
I'm not sure if we, I feel like there is some verbiage maybe that we went to have changed as far as the $100,000.

1100
02:03:34,210 --> 02:03:43,630
what was going to be necessary to pull that trigger for these inspections, maybe the uniformity as far as root height, at least I would like to look into that.

1101
02:03:44,330 --> 02:03:53,790
I don't know if maybe another option might be just throwing this out there. If some of us are comfortable with the half a mile, some of us are comfortable with more of like a mile.

1102
02:03:55,550 --> 02:04:06,090
Maybe we start with a half a mile, see how that goes and then increase it, or should we just go for it and do the full throttle city.

1103
02:04:06,610 --> 02:04:08,270
But I think those are my, yes please.

1104
02:04:09,010 --> 02:04:10,250
Thank you, through the mayor.

1105
02:04:10,770 --> 02:04:21,870
Just want to note, it sounds like the 100,000 notation under the sewer and water considerations are of concern to several people.

1106
02:04:21,870 --> 02:04:35,350
staff's not married to that, and we've been discussing, and it would be acceptable if the council desired to not include section 13.2075D3, or

1107
02:04:36,690 --> 02:04:42,610
There's the other one, 13-04-075-B3.

1108
02:04:49,380 --> 02:04:54,540
And I don't know that I want to jump around too much on this, but if you were going to do that,

1109
02:04:54,720 --> 02:05:06,880
I would probably also amend B4 and E4 to solely refer to the development of an ADU.

1110
02:05:06,880 --> 02:05:18,080
because the expansion floor area is arguably even broader than the 100,000, so that's an option and that would basically be consistent with what Mr. DeVore was recommending.

1111
02:05:20,810 --> 02:05:25,130
All right, we're getting all these issues resolved right here as I speak, Mr. Barrick.

1112
02:05:26,330 --> 02:05:28,130
Mr. Barrick is thrilled by the whole thing.

1113
02:05:28,690 --> 02:05:33,910
Mr. Barrick is wanting to get a rebate for it, all the work you did on this P.D.U.

1114
02:05:33,910 --> 02:05:46,940
this is not accurate for the record anyone else anyone ready to make a motion I

1115
02:05:46,940 --> 02:05:50,100
think we have some of those clarifications you can add some of the points

1116
02:05:50,100 --> 02:05:55,740
that were made by the staff that they're not married to some of these points

1117
02:05:56,240 --> 02:06:04,080
what do you think anybody but I don't know can you make it and I'll say that

1118
02:06:05,280 --> 02:06:07,980
We want the green box with part of the blue box.

1119
02:06:10,160 --> 02:06:12,400
And we definitely want the gold box.

1120
02:06:12,720 --> 02:06:22,140
So I think we could take, I think what the council should do is take the ADU-1 first and

1121
02:06:22,140 --> 02:06:29,400
then go on and I think you could make a motion on the second two after that.

1122
02:06:29,400 --> 02:06:41,440
But as to the ADU-1, is there anything that you would like to, why don't you describe what you would like to change the staff's recommendation, and then I'll see if I can help fashion emotion on that.

1123
02:06:42,820 --> 02:06:47,240
Okay, so I thought what we heard was removing the $100,000 and the-

1124
02:06:47,240 --> 02:06:49,980
So that's as to the second two.

1125
02:06:50,040 --> 02:06:50,300
Okay, second.

1126
02:06:53,890 --> 02:06:59,130
I think, did we choose which, which, so I think, vice mayor, I think the-

1127
02:06:59,130 --> 02:07:00,110
Not the best person to-

1128
02:07:00,430 --> 02:07:00,570
Right.

1129
02:07:00,930 --> 02:07:05,650
I think the issues you've been discussing is, like the 80, like the changes to the ordinance,

1130
02:07:06,390 --> 02:07:12,390
and it seems like the questions are, we're at 1,000 square feet, we move up to 1,200 square feet,

1131
02:07:12,550 --> 02:07:18,210
consistent with state law, and then the matter around the micro transit that would,

1132
02:07:18,210 --> 02:07:20,170
if depending on how you view it,

1133
02:07:20,370 --> 02:07:23,830
permit two extra feet for properties that are subject

1134
02:07:23,830 --> 02:07:28,110
or have ability to access that micro transit wherever you might

1135
02:07:28,110 --> 02:07:29,030
grow that line.

1136
02:07:29,290 --> 02:07:29,590
200.

1137
02:07:30,370 --> 02:07:30,550
Yeah.

1138
02:07:32,720 --> 02:07:34,080
Okay, well, let's just try that

1139
02:07:35,020 --> 02:07:36,060
and see what happens.

1140
02:07:36,680 --> 02:07:40,880
So I would like to make a motion to...

1141
02:07:40,880 --> 02:07:41,500
Oh my God.

1142
02:07:45,450 --> 02:07:47,630
You can introduce some way first reading.

1143
02:07:47,770 --> 02:07:47,930
You can get the first part.

1144
02:07:47,930 --> 02:07:48,910
Okay, that's exactly it.

1145
02:07:49,010 --> 02:07:49,430
Okay, okay.

1146
02:07:49,430 --> 02:08:02,490
Okay, to introduce in way the first reading of the micro transit alternative and schedule the selected ordinance for the second reading on September 8th.

1147
02:08:09,320 --> 02:08:10,180
There's a motion?

1148
02:08:12,060 --> 02:08:13,640
I'm not sure what the motion is.

1149
02:08:13,640 --> 02:08:14,140
Did it change?

1150
02:08:15,140 --> 02:08:24,400
No, no, I think it might be helpful for you to explain what that motion is because I believe that goes to the ordinance that is presented.

1151
02:08:27,280 --> 02:08:39,260
So that was staff's recommendation, which was that the higher height limit would apply essentially in the entire city with those limited.

1152
02:08:39,840 --> 02:08:46,740
Okay, that's what I wanted, but I think at your right I heard other, it sounds like I heard others, we're not into that, so let's try again.

1153
02:08:46,740 --> 02:08:56,180
And I'm going to make a motion to introduce and wave the first reading of the planning commission recommended ordinance and schedule the selected ordinance for the second reading on September 8th, 2026.

1154
02:08:59,710 --> 02:09:01,670
I'll just, let me see if I can step up.

1155
02:09:02,090 --> 02:09:02,470
If I may.

1156
02:09:02,550 --> 02:09:06,430
No micro transit exception for height is what you say.

1157
02:09:06,590 --> 02:09:13,390
Yes, so that means no, no vine transit, no vine shuttle, no extra height.

1158
02:09:13,390 --> 02:09:17,890
I liked it, but I didn't sound like the others were on board of it.

1159
02:09:17,950 --> 02:09:23,790
I might like it with the second revision of by taking a smaller bite with just up 29.

1160
02:09:24,230 --> 02:09:28,410
I'd be more open to that than the whole town minus three houses.

1161
02:09:28,590 --> 02:09:31,070
Not that I'm trying to affect your motion, just trying to look.

1162
02:09:31,230 --> 02:09:33,210
Okay, well we're trying to help with transit, yeah, we're trying to.

1163
02:09:33,310 --> 02:09:38,010
And I wasn't sure if my, were you guys okay with what I was saying with, I don't think it should go above,

1164
02:09:38,650 --> 02:09:40,570
if there is a mean house, I don't think to move.

1165
02:09:40,570 --> 02:09:46,710
Let the vice mayor make a motion and then we'll go out of discussion if it doesn't work, we'll make another one.

1166
02:09:47,870 --> 02:09:48,450
Go ahead.

1167
02:09:48,870 --> 02:09:49,570
Okay, I'm good.

1168
02:09:49,950 --> 02:09:51,150
So you're going to have to just narrow it out.

1169
02:09:51,290 --> 02:09:54,170
What micro transit part you wish to have?

1170
02:09:54,790 --> 02:10:03,110
I'm going to make a motion to introduce and wave the first reading of the micro transit alternative ordinance for those within.

1171
02:10:03,110 --> 02:10:06,430
And was it a half mile?

1172
02:10:06,470 --> 02:10:10,550
A half mile of fine transit.

1173
02:10:10,570 --> 02:10:11,990
A fine transit, thank you.

1174
02:10:12,410 --> 02:10:15,870
And schedule the selected ordinance for a second reading on September 8, 2006.

1175
02:10:20,410 --> 02:10:26,430
Second, there is a motion and a second further discussion on, or clarifying it, any more?

1176
02:10:27,330 --> 02:10:27,890
Clarify.

1177
02:10:28,210 --> 02:10:30,010
Yep, what am I voting for there?

1178
02:10:30,150 --> 02:10:32,970
Is it just the micro transit and nothing else?

1179
02:10:32,970 --> 02:10:33,390
No.

1180
02:10:33,790 --> 02:10:34,310
So I can-

1181
02:10:34,310 --> 02:10:34,670
Or the whole.

1182
02:10:35,310 --> 02:10:35,470
Wow.

1183
02:10:36,010 --> 02:10:36,250
Okay.

1184
02:10:36,490 --> 02:10:36,650
Go ahead.

1185
02:10:36,690 --> 02:10:40,190
You're voting on the alternative microtransit ordinance.

1186
02:10:40,190 --> 02:10:46,670
It's the entire ordinance of the ADU and JADU section of our zoning ordinance.

1187
02:10:47,130 --> 02:10:54,790
There's a change to the definition of microtransit to only include vine transit within a half mile.

1188
02:10:55,630 --> 02:11:00,550
And Lisa, what would the size of an ADU be the maximum size under this action?

1189
02:11:02,950 --> 02:11:10,910
of the roof clarifications, there could be a friendly second amendment if still chose.

1190
02:11:11,370 --> 02:11:16,370
I think they do still second that, Mr. Diaz, with all of that, those little changes?

1191
02:11:16,630 --> 02:11:23,110
Is it the same as the original option A that, just with the change to the micro transit?

1192
02:11:23,370 --> 02:11:23,490
Yes.

1193
02:11:23,770 --> 02:11:24,050
That's it?

1194
02:11:24,290 --> 02:11:24,510
Yes.

1195
02:11:24,830 --> 02:11:25,370
I have second.

1196
02:11:28,070 --> 02:11:28,290
All right.

1197
02:11:28,470 --> 02:11:28,950
Further discussion?

1198
02:11:29,410 --> 02:11:31,550
I would like to make an amendment to the amendment.

1199
02:11:33,590 --> 02:11:37,810
And send it from 1,200 square feet to 1,000 square feet.

1200
02:11:40,640 --> 02:11:41,800
Will you accept that?

1201
02:11:42,300 --> 02:11:42,940
You don't have to.

1202
02:11:44,120 --> 02:11:45,300
You're not going to support that.

1203
02:11:45,540 --> 02:11:46,340
She's not accepting that.

1204
02:11:51,300 --> 02:11:53,360
So I think there's a motion in a second.

1205
02:11:53,620 --> 02:11:54,720
Doesn't look like there's further discussion.

1206
02:11:57,760 --> 02:11:58,240
Please.

1207
02:11:58,940 --> 02:12:03,180
My friendly amendment was to make it so that the roofs,

1208
02:12:03,180 --> 02:12:09,380
The ADU roof does not exceed the roof level of the main house.

1209
02:12:09,720 --> 02:12:13,860
So you don't wind up with a house here and then the ADU here.

1210
02:12:15,480 --> 02:12:16,780
We can discuss it.

1211
02:12:17,960 --> 02:12:21,460
Well, are you entertaining a men in your motion?

1212
02:12:23,420 --> 02:12:26,720
Well, not really, because I don't understand why it matters, that's why I was going to ask why it matters.

1213
02:12:26,720 --> 02:12:33,120
I think why it matters is just for neighbors, depending on the neighborhood and the neighbors.

1214
02:12:33,400 --> 02:12:37,620
You don't necessarily want somebody with an ADU where they're looking down into your backyard.

1215
02:12:39,820 --> 02:12:50,400
So I guess, even though I appreciate how friendly it was, I'm going to say no, because I see this as just important to affordable housing.

1216
02:12:50,680 --> 02:12:54,040
And so that's why I would prefer to stick with it with the actual motion that I made.

1217
02:12:54,040 --> 02:12:57,180
All right, we have a motion in the second on the floor.

1218
02:12:57,300 --> 02:13:00,960
I think we're all clear about what it is, a roll call please.

1219
02:13:01,780 --> 02:13:02,580
Vice Mayor D easy.

1220
02:13:03,480 --> 02:13:03,740
Yes.

1221
02:13:04,000 --> 02:13:04,780
Council member Diaz.

1222
02:13:05,240 --> 02:13:05,460
Yes.

1223
02:13:06,280 --> 02:13:07,360
Council member Barrett.

1224
02:13:07,720 --> 02:13:08,040
No.

1225
02:13:08,460 --> 02:13:09,280
Council member Spadurato.

1226
02:13:09,680 --> 02:13:10,040
No.

1227
02:13:10,320 --> 02:13:10,620
Mayor Dewing.

1228
02:13:10,900 --> 02:13:11,020
Yes.

1229
02:13:11,660 --> 02:13:15,140
That motion passes three to two, so we were almost there.

1230
02:13:15,240 --> 02:13:18,340
We have two more motions, one on the water service.

1231
02:13:18,340 --> 02:13:24,920
That's where we talk about this potential elimination of the $100,000 threshold to

1232
02:13:25,780 --> 02:13:29,980
instigate, and so well, on this case, it's a water inspection.

1233
02:13:30,340 --> 02:13:31,740
Mr. Walsh, you have something else.

1234
02:13:32,060 --> 02:13:34,700
So I think for that one, the motion's a little easier.

1235
02:13:35,340 --> 02:13:49,230
And I think what it could be is to introduce and

1236
02:13:49,230 --> 02:14:18,650
ordinances with the amendments that for the water service ordinance, you would delete section 13.2.0.075E3, and you would amend subsection E4 to solely reference development of an attached ADU, and then make those same amendments.

1237
02:14:18,650 --> 02:14:27,790
to section on the second ordinance, the sewer lateral ordinance, the section 13.04.075.

1238
02:14:28,150 --> 02:14:31,230
You would delete subsection B3,

1239
02:14:34,070 --> 02:14:37,110
excuse me, am I writing this bad?

1240
02:14:43,990 --> 02:14:44,170
Right.

1241
02:14:48,990 --> 02:14:51,970
Yeah, my reference is to sewer and water were wrong, but for,

1242
02:14:55,350 --> 02:14:57,210
yeah, right, no, I've got it.

1243
02:14:57,210 --> 02:14:59,510
So, first.

1244
02:15:00,000 --> 02:15:28,200
So for a section 13.04.075, you would delete section B3 and amend section B4 to only reference development of an attached adieu. So in each, so in need for the sewer and the water with the effective result, that would be as you would take out the $100 threshold is triggering inspection, and then you would only have inspection for the development of an attached adieu, not for the inspection of floor area more generally.

1245
02:15:33,140 --> 02:15:33,740
So moved.

1246
02:15:35,180 --> 02:15:40,020
Second, any further discussions, motion in the second?

1247
02:15:40,420 --> 02:15:43,780
Any further discussion, do we are we clarified on that?

1248
02:15:45,660 --> 02:15:47,080
Any questions before you vote?

1249
02:15:49,260 --> 02:15:50,500
All right, Mr. Bradley.

1250
02:15:51,040 --> 02:15:51,380
Mayor Dorn.

1251
02:15:52,060 --> 02:15:53,620
Yes, Councilmember Barrick.

1252
02:15:53,960 --> 02:15:54,280
Yes.

1253
02:15:54,720 --> 02:15:55,200
Vice Mayor DZ.

1254
02:15:55,940 --> 02:15:56,160
Yes.

1255
02:15:56,540 --> 02:15:57,220
Councilmember Spadrado.

1256
02:15:57,660 --> 02:15:57,820
Yes.

1257
02:15:58,480 --> 02:15:59,660
And, Councilmember D.S.

1258
02:16:00,120 --> 02:16:00,340
Yes.

1259
02:16:01,120 --> 02:16:02,940
All right, congratulations, we got through it.

1260
02:16:03,140 --> 02:16:05,200
Good job, everybody.

1261
02:16:07,400 --> 02:16:14,100
I can't wait to retire in my 1200 square foot, ADU, and have my daughter live in the house and cook for me.

1262
02:16:18,180 --> 02:16:27,240
Okay, now we have some more work to do, are we all, we have to call the staff for the unified school district to turn on the air conditioning.

1263
02:16:29,040 --> 02:16:31,640
I know I have a suit and tie on, it's probably not helping.

1264
02:16:31,640 --> 02:16:33,380
All right, we're going to move along.

1265
02:16:33,540 --> 02:16:37,000
We have to get going here, let me get my barren straight.

1266
02:16:37,400 --> 02:16:38,940
Good work, good discussion on that.

1267
02:16:39,520 --> 02:16:41,560
Thank you for the public participation.

1268
02:16:43,220 --> 02:16:43,440
All right.

1269
02:16:46,030 --> 02:16:49,970
So I think we're moving to item 13.1, new business.

1270
02:16:50,250 --> 02:16:53,090
We are, and thank you, Mr. McCann will go right there.

1271
02:16:53,310 --> 02:16:53,490
Okay.

1272
02:16:53,790 --> 02:16:57,590
This is the appointment of Susan Case as interim director of the Administrative Services Treasurer.

1273
02:16:58,390 --> 02:16:59,450
Yes sir, Mr. McCann.

1274
02:16:59,450 --> 02:17:12,270
In as much as we had cupcakes earlier, we can't turn back and we need to recognize that our administrative services director will be leading us at the end of this month.

1275
02:17:13,070 --> 02:17:22,850
And we have great need to have some professional help in the areas where Mandy has provided such good service.

1276
02:17:22,850 --> 02:17:33,030
Fortunately, we've been able to find a professional who has experience very much in line with the types of things that we do.

1277
02:17:33,830 --> 02:17:43,310
In fact, she has direct experience with some of our computer programs and different platforms, which is very, very helpful.

1278
02:17:44,150 --> 02:17:52,110
You'll see that Sue Casey, Susan Casey, the individual that we are recommending has broad

1279
02:17:52,870 --> 02:18:01,570
experience with a number of different cities in the North Bay, larger cities, a bit larger

1280
02:18:01,570 --> 02:18:08,970
than St Helena, but in the scheme of things smaller cities and so that's an important experience

1281
02:18:08,970 --> 02:18:19,250
that she brings, lots and lots of experience with different aspects of financial management that we come into contact every day.

1282
02:18:19,390 --> 02:18:23,050
So I think she'd be a very good interim person for us.

1283
02:18:23,310 --> 02:18:30,530
She is a retired, a new attendant, and so you're familiar with that protocol.

1284
02:18:31,510 --> 02:18:38,430
When I can tell you, as it's quite rigid, we've had some back and forth with the folks at CalPERS to ensure

1285
02:18:38,430 --> 02:18:52,430
that we're moving forward correctly with Ms. Casey, both for her benefit as well as for the city's benefit and our city attorney's office has worked very, very hard over the last three or four or five days to help us move this forward.

1286
02:18:52,570 --> 02:19:02,990
It's been a very quick process and Ethan's colleague has done a marvelous job to help us get things consistent with CalPERS law.

1287
02:19:04,290 --> 02:19:08,090
In fact, we're just working on this today to make sure it's correct.

1288
02:19:08,350 --> 02:19:13,170
We ended up with some revised documents which we presented to the council and put up on our website.

1289
02:19:13,810 --> 02:19:15,810
And I'll have Ethan maybe just walk through that.

1290
02:19:16,110 --> 02:19:19,710
It can be a little bit confusing, but I think we have a pretty clear conclusion.

1291
02:19:20,250 --> 02:19:24,150
From my standpoint, I urge you to take action to a point Ms. Casey.

1292
02:19:24,690 --> 02:19:27,630
And I think Ethan can make sure that if you do that, we do it correctly.

1293
02:19:28,030 --> 02:19:31,670
So Ethan, can you explain what you think we need to do here?

1294
02:19:31,670 --> 02:19:51,510
I'm sure I will do it barely briefly as Mr. McCann mentioned, when you hire and retire the new intent, there are barely strict rules to apply, and procedures that you have to follow to ensure that you are not jeopardizing essentially their retirement income.

1295
02:19:51,510 --> 02:20:05,790
And one of those is as part of the process when you hire them, you're supposed to concurrently initiate the recruitment for the position that they are assuming.

1296
02:20:06,450 --> 02:20:20,070
The challenge that we have here is that as we'll cover in the next item, the city is looking to do somewhat of a reorganization where we want to replace the administrative services director position.

1297
02:20:20,070 --> 02:20:23,890
with two separate positions for

1298
02:20:24,470 --> 02:20:30,110
Director of Finance and for HR, IT officer.

1299
02:20:30,550 --> 02:20:35,010
And so that presents some challenges in terms of complying with the CalPERS rules.

1300
02:20:35,550 --> 02:20:41,070
So my colleague who specializes in working on CalPERS issues

1301
02:20:42,020 --> 02:20:48,010
reached out to CalPERS and has been working to ensure that we essentially document what we're doing.

1302
02:20:48,010 --> 02:20:52,590
they understood kind of the direction in which the city is going.

1303
02:20:52,910 --> 02:21:00,710
And that there is some benefit to that and it didn't make sense to go through their kind of somewhat rigid requirements to the letter.

1304
02:21:01,030 --> 02:21:08,270
And so they essentially asked that we document our recruitment reorganization efforts through the staff materials.

1305
02:21:08,850 --> 02:21:14,630
So my colleague Isabel worked on that and put things together, bedded those with CalPERS.

1306
02:21:14,630 --> 02:21:30,810
And so those are the revised items that you have before you, they don't substantively change what we're doing with bringing on this KC, but they are intended to ensure that we are complying with the CalPros rules and make sure everyone's on the straight and narrow.

1307
02:21:31,110 --> 02:21:33,270
So if there's any questions, I'm happy to respond to those.

1308
02:21:36,890 --> 02:21:38,150
Any initial questions?

1309
02:21:39,710 --> 02:21:42,670
Let me open it up for public comment, like public comment on the matter.

1310
02:21:46,950 --> 02:21:52,310
Seeing no one run to the podium, I'll close public comment, bring it back, any discussion?

1311
02:21:53,190 --> 02:21:54,790
I think it seems very straightforward.

1312
02:21:56,070 --> 02:21:59,370
I guess the only thing I would say is there, it says no fiscal impact.

1313
02:21:59,610 --> 02:22:05,090
I guess there would be a fiscal impact to a certain degree downward, I would say, not up.

1314
02:22:07,370 --> 02:22:14,370
Let's see, no actually I think from our budget and standpoints of the position is budgeted and this would be at the same level.

1315
02:22:14,650 --> 02:22:15,910
In fact, I guess you are correct.

1316
02:22:16,210 --> 02:22:18,450
We would have some savings because the benefits are not there.

1317
02:22:18,790 --> 02:22:21,630
Salaries one thing, benefits are not paid so we would have some savings.

1318
02:22:23,190 --> 02:22:27,450
That's why we're keeping you around until when is your time, Mr. McCann?

1319
02:22:27,450 --> 02:22:38,250
All right. I don't think there's any controversy here. Anyone want to make a motion? I'll make a motion. Please adopt the resolution.

1320
02:22:39,190 --> 02:22:39,690
Second.

1321
02:22:40,110 --> 02:22:44,330
There's a motion is second by Barrett and Spadarodo.

1322
02:22:45,490 --> 02:22:46,410
Can't you remember Barrett?

1323
02:22:47,030 --> 02:22:47,250
Yes.

1324
02:22:47,450 --> 02:22:48,230
Can't you remember Spadarodo?

1325
02:22:48,550 --> 02:22:48,730
Yes.

1326
02:22:48,990 --> 02:22:49,710
Can't you remember Diaz?

1327
02:22:50,070 --> 02:22:50,310
Yes.

1328
02:22:50,550 --> 02:22:50,930
Nice to meet you.

1329
02:22:51,310 --> 02:22:51,710
Yes.

1330
02:22:53,230 --> 02:22:54,770
I can't thank you enough.

1331
02:22:56,530 --> 02:23:09,790
Okay, so I'm trying to do you think we should proceed in the order that we're that we're set, Mr. McCann in terms of the two, do you think we can finish both of them?

1332
02:23:10,010 --> 02:23:10,730
I think so, yes.

1333
02:23:10,930 --> 02:23:15,670
Okay, I wanted to leave more time for 13.2, but we'll go there now.

1334
02:23:18,070 --> 02:23:18,310
Great.

1335
02:23:19,330 --> 02:23:25,630
Thank you, Mr. Mayor and councilmembers, I'll just point out that this item, which relates to.

1336
02:23:25,630 --> 02:23:31,490
I met 13 more three actually we have enough time to make to address the vacancy issue

1337
02:23:31,490 --> 02:23:36,590
I guess I'm sorry I wasn't clear there you think we have enough time to get to the the last item.

1338
02:23:37,530 --> 02:23:52,270
I believe we do okay but I'm happy to take 13 so 13 to which is the interim strategic plan related to the Blackburg group report.

1339
02:23:52,270 --> 02:24:01,950
I'll note that we've got three comments that came in as part of the public comment period, a lane

1340
02:24:01,950 --> 02:24:06,550
demand, Kelly Wheaton and Dan Hale, offered comments on our staff report and recommendations.

1341
02:24:06,550 --> 02:24:08,370
I appreciate those comments very much.

1342
02:24:09,330 --> 02:24:15,550
I'll remind the council that back in May, we brought the final report from the Blackbird

1343
02:24:15,550 --> 02:24:18,670
group to the city council and presented that to the community.

1344
02:24:19,690 --> 02:24:26,290
We offer a variety of observations and thoughts and suggested that we'd come back in a couple

1345
02:24:26,290 --> 02:24:31,870
of months, sometime in August, with a preliminary implementation plan for your consideration,

1346
02:24:32,050 --> 02:24:33,190
and that's what we're doing here tonight.

1347
02:24:35,690 --> 02:24:42,870
We've looked at this and have developed an approach that's kind of a two-step approach.

1348
02:24:42,870 --> 02:24:49,950
one is sort of an interim action, and then the subsequent one would be early next year,

1349
02:24:50,790 --> 02:24:55,950
which would be an approach to develop a long-term strategic plan.

1350
02:24:57,210 --> 02:25:03,450
The interim plan is intended to address existing needs, immediate needs, and to seize opportunities

1351
02:25:03,450 --> 02:25:11,630
that I think are before us to do much assessment and development, developing inventories to create

1352
02:25:11,630 --> 02:25:17,410
a foundational work plan and a foundational trove, really, of information.

1353
02:25:18,610 --> 02:25:28,070
That information will be a jump-off spot for long-term strategic planning by City Council

1354
02:25:28,070 --> 02:25:29,390
and staff in future.

1355
02:25:30,150 --> 02:25:34,990
We'll also use that inventory and assessment to determine what we need to do immediately

1356
02:25:34,990 --> 02:25:40,550
with respect to a number of our systems and different controls.

1357
02:25:42,370 --> 02:25:44,690
There's no doubt that there's change in the air.

1358
02:25:45,490 --> 02:25:47,170
The City Council has an election coming up.

1359
02:25:47,470 --> 02:25:49,250
We'll have potentially three new members.

1360
02:25:49,250 --> 02:25:52,770
We'll certainly have at least one new member of the Council.

1361
02:25:53,290 --> 02:25:56,870
The City Manager, the Council will select a new City Manager.

1362
02:25:57,970 --> 02:26:02,750
And we'll also have a new administrative services director or

1363
02:26:02,750 --> 02:26:05,850
finance director in the not-too-distant future.

1364
02:26:07,230 --> 02:26:09,150
This report, in our recommendations,

1365
02:26:09,270 --> 02:26:13,370
billed on the Blackbird Group, Blackbird Group's report,

1366
02:26:14,510 --> 02:26:19,750
and we find that there is much in that report that is good.

1367
02:26:20,370 --> 02:26:25,110
There are a number of areas that we had disagreed with,

1368
02:26:25,390 --> 02:26:27,890
or a number of areas that we thought weren't appropriate for us,

1369
02:26:28,230 --> 02:26:30,570
perhaps at this time, but there's much in there

1370
02:26:30,570 --> 02:26:36,190
that is constructive and good and appropriate for an organization like us and in fact for our organization.

1371
02:26:37,710 --> 02:26:40,850
And so we strongly propose that we move forward.

1372
02:26:42,350 --> 02:26:49,190
There's been just a ton of work done by our staff over the last year around Blackburg.

1373
02:26:49,310 --> 02:27:00,090
So participation in Blackburg, responding to Blackburg, and then in the last six months or so there's been just a lot of very good work by our staff.

1374
02:27:00,570 --> 02:27:02,230
especially on the executive team.

1375
02:27:03,970 --> 02:27:13,950
Knowing that we were developing this plan, I brought the staff together and we had a number of discussions about my thoughts about what we could do, what we should do, what we should explore.

1376
02:27:14,430 --> 02:27:29,710
I put together a little subcommittee of the executive team, which included John Sorenson, our fire chief, Joe Leach, our public works director and Andrew Bradley, the utility player who's involved in almost everything it seems like.

1377
02:27:31,410 --> 02:27:42,030
And they all did a great job in taking ideas that I had and suggestions in sort of a theme and framework and turning it into the document that you see tonight.

1378
02:27:42,770 --> 02:27:44,370
I particularly want to thank Andrew.

1379
02:27:44,810 --> 02:27:47,530
He's done a fantastic job pulling this together.

1380
02:27:48,030 --> 02:27:55,210
A lot of the things you see here are ideas that he came up with or ideas that he developed from a kernel that perhaps I planted.

1381
02:27:55,950 --> 02:27:57,090
But it's really good work.

1382
02:27:57,090 --> 02:28:02,930
I really appreciate it. I'd like to run through some slides to talk a little bit about this.

1383
02:28:03,530 --> 02:28:09,130
We got about, I don't know, a dozen slides or so, so we'll be quick. I'm not going to go into

1384
02:28:09,130 --> 02:28:15,310
great detail because there's lots and lots here and I'd rather respond to questions. But I will say

1385
02:28:15,310 --> 02:28:22,430
that we tried to be complete and anticipate some of the concerns or areas of interest that you all

1386
02:28:22,430 --> 02:28:25,370
might have, and so hopefully we've captured those things.

1387
02:28:26,110 --> 02:28:33,150
I'll also touch on some costs toward the end of this, and then we can respond to questions.

1388
02:28:36,770 --> 02:28:42,250
So in the Blackbird Report, they talked about quite a bit about strategic planning, the

1389
02:28:42,250 --> 02:28:48,670
need for a North Star to be centered, and the need for the City Council to develop a strategic

1390
02:28:48,670 --> 02:28:49,130
plan.

1391
02:28:49,470 --> 02:28:50,330
We don't have a plan.

1392
02:28:50,330 --> 02:29:05,870
We have lots of plans but we don't have A plan and so we hope to help to develop ideas and resources and data that will help us develop that strategic plan in future.

1393
02:29:06,110 --> 02:29:08,010
That's for the future council.

1394
02:29:08,450 --> 02:29:13,150
This is really sort of a temporary approach that is getting us in the right direction.

1395
02:29:14,250 --> 02:29:14,550
Next slide.

1396
02:29:14,550 --> 02:29:21,590
And I see this is really a three-phase approach, which is the beginning with the foundational

1397
02:29:21,590 --> 02:29:22,510
interim plan.

1398
02:29:22,950 --> 02:29:29,810
That's where we will take Blackburg suggestions about looking at standard operating procedures,

1399
02:29:30,090 --> 02:29:40,970
SOPs, looking at different systems and financial controls, best practices, to really inventory

1400
02:29:40,970 --> 02:29:43,310
what we have because we have quite a few of those.

1401
02:29:44,190 --> 02:29:47,210
but we know that we probably have gaps too.

1402
02:29:47,670 --> 02:29:52,710
So we want to look at what we have, collect those things so that they're not siloed

1403
02:29:52,710 --> 02:29:55,690
and so that they're readily available to all of the staff.

1404
02:29:56,070 --> 02:29:59,730
But then also have some consultant help that can help us identify.

1405
02:30:00,000 --> 02:30:29,660
Where we're missing, that's practices where we have gaps. There was discussion in the Blackburg work around potential, the potential for fraud waste and abuse. They were careful to say that they don't believe there is any, but there's potential because there may be some systems or practices that are missing. So we want to engage with a consultant that can, that who specializes in fraud waste and abuse, we already have some proposals from them.

1406
02:30:29,660 --> 02:30:36,120
And to take a look at our practices and give us their observations and their recommendations to strengthen our system.

1407
02:30:36,980 --> 02:30:43,100
Be a variety of other activities in that first foundational period.

1408
02:30:43,500 --> 02:30:48,820
You'll see up there that it talks about executing water quality priority initiatives.

1409
02:30:49,860 --> 02:30:54,360
That's directly to the discolored water that we continue to experience in the community.

1410
02:30:54,780 --> 02:30:58,640
To me, that needs to be project number one to address that condition.

1411
02:30:58,640 --> 02:31:15,460
And we need to develop initiatives and data so we can develop a series, I think, of recommendations to address the source and the continuing presence of discolored waters that jumps right to the top.

1412
02:31:16,380 --> 02:31:23,600
Government transition, I mentioned the elections that are coming and then also just the transitions that are happening at the staff level.

1413
02:31:23,600 --> 02:31:28,760
then ultimately the long-term strategic plan would be the third phase of the development.

1414
02:31:29,680 --> 02:31:30,440
Next slide.

1415
02:31:31,540 --> 02:31:36,800
We see that there are half a dozen goals that I think are practical for this interim

1416
02:31:36,800 --> 02:31:37,300
period.

1417
02:31:38,800 --> 02:31:41,600
And so systems and procedures are the first.

1418
02:31:42,200 --> 02:31:47,100
And that's about, again, the SOPs, the systems, the financial controls, those points.

1419
02:31:49,750 --> 02:31:52,370
Next slide, and actually you can go to the one after it.

1420
02:31:53,410 --> 02:31:54,090
Go ahead.

1421
02:31:56,050 --> 02:31:56,790
Keep going.

1422
02:31:58,110 --> 02:31:58,730
That's great.

1423
02:31:59,150 --> 02:32:00,230
The organizational structure.

1424
02:32:00,530 --> 02:32:06,350
This is where we talk about strategic hires and changing some of our organization.

1425
02:32:07,590 --> 02:32:10,890
There's been conversation around this over the years.

1426
02:32:11,150 --> 02:32:13,590
We've had some experiment with some of this over the years.

1427
02:32:14,130 --> 02:32:15,170
We've gone back and forth.

1428
02:32:15,850 --> 02:32:20,950
My own view is that this is an area I think that Blackburg was right on.

1429
02:32:20,950 --> 02:32:23,430
that there are some areas where we could be more efficient.

1430
02:32:23,650 --> 02:32:25,670
We could provide better customer service.

1431
02:32:25,810 --> 02:32:27,690
We could provide better internal service.

1432
02:32:28,630 --> 02:32:30,210
Most of these are sort of free.

1433
02:32:30,470 --> 02:32:31,810
It's just shifting stuff around.

1434
02:32:32,550 --> 02:32:34,490
There may be some support that's necessary,

1435
02:32:34,790 --> 02:32:37,830
but I can just quickly tell you that administrative services,

1436
02:32:38,030 --> 02:32:39,870
the work that Mandy Kellogg has been doing,

1437
02:32:40,310 --> 02:32:42,090
is administrative services.

1438
02:32:42,290 --> 02:32:45,110
So it's finance, it's HR, it's IT,

1439
02:32:45,450 --> 02:32:49,490
and then it's anything else that I can dump on somebody who's capable.

1440
02:32:49,490 --> 02:32:51,910
That makes it very, very difficult.

1441
02:32:52,590 --> 02:32:55,370
So my suggestion is that we simplify things.

1442
02:32:56,010 --> 02:32:57,910
We have finance. They do finance.

1443
02:32:59,370 --> 02:33:02,210
And we have human resources and we have IT.

1444
02:33:03,030 --> 02:33:06,990
Risk management falls in there as well, but that's a much limited thing for us.

1445
02:33:07,470 --> 02:33:12,910
But HR was a strong recommendation from the Blackbird report for a variety of reasons.

1446
02:33:13,310 --> 02:33:16,370
HR is important. Our staff desires that. They really do.

1447
02:33:17,030 --> 02:33:34,010
But it also has talent training that we don't do a great job at, so this would be an opportunity to really look at how we develop talent, how we keep talent, how we train folks for our own particular needs of the HR rule is extremely important.

1448
02:33:35,410 --> 02:33:52,430
IT, super important, we struggle with information technology, we've got a consultant who does a great job of fixing things and plugging things in and unplugging things, that's great, but we need a strategy, we don't have anyone who can strategize for us, so that's what this would bring us.

1449
02:33:52,430 --> 02:34:05,470
community services, this is an experiment that was started a few years ago looking at the Recreation Department and the Library Department and the opportunity to combine those thinking that there might be some synergy.

1450
02:34:07,150 --> 02:34:15,270
I think that there's probably greater strengths by returning them to their previous condition, where they were our independent departments.

1451
02:34:15,270 --> 02:34:24,510
And so that's what this suggests to dislocate them and have an independent recreation department, an independent library.

1452
02:34:26,370 --> 02:34:29,570
And then in the public works department, we have a number of divisions.

1453
02:34:29,870 --> 02:34:35,730
One of the divisions is park maintenance and my suggestion here is that we move the park maintenance.

1454
02:34:36,310 --> 02:34:43,570
And I see this as sort of a pilot to see how this works, but to move the park maintenance division from public works to recreation.

1455
02:34:43,570 --> 02:35:12,870
So it's truly a parks and recreation department the folks who are responsible for programming are also responsible for maintenance and they have direct control over that it's been a topic that it's been discussed that our parks and recreation commission both the the community services the library and recreation and then the parks and recreation or things that you can see in different towns are done different ways and so there's no right or wrong it's really what works for us.

1456
02:35:12,870 --> 02:35:16,610
I think this is a good opportunity to explore an alternate and see if that's better.

1457
02:35:17,410 --> 02:35:23,310
Public works, I think that we really need to focus and provide support so

1458
02:35:23,310 --> 02:35:31,630
that we can get the things done at a pace and at a degree of thoroughness that the community desires.

1459
02:35:32,590 --> 02:35:33,870
We have a lot of projects.

1460
02:35:34,250 --> 02:35:39,090
You heard from Mario Traverson tonight, he carries a tremendous load of projects.

1461
02:35:40,370 --> 02:35:47,130
We, I think, need to have a division within public works that is focused exclusively on projects.

1462
02:35:47,710 --> 02:35:56,610
So a CIP division, and then similarly, we have the other side of the house, if you will, that is operations.

1463
02:35:56,870 --> 02:36:06,130
And so that's what most folks typically think of as public works, road work and sewer work and storm brain work, park work too, in most cases.

1464
02:36:06,130 --> 02:36:11,230
So I think we need to separate those and have a division chief over operations.

1465
02:36:11,610 --> 02:36:12,610
We've had that in the past.

1466
02:36:13,810 --> 02:36:15,090
This would be more focused.

1467
02:36:15,230 --> 02:36:19,030
It would include a greater role in water and waste water matters as well.

1468
02:36:19,230 --> 02:36:20,830
So all of those operations would be there.

1469
02:36:21,730 --> 02:36:28,430
My own view is that both of these need a very qualified individual to lead them because

1470
02:36:28,430 --> 02:36:30,790
it's not just the basic stuff.

1471
02:36:31,170 --> 02:36:32,690
It's more like how do we solve things.

1472
02:36:32,690 --> 02:36:37,570
And so water, I talked about the discolored water, that's a part of it.

1473
02:36:37,910 --> 02:36:45,490
So we need someone who has the capability to understand those problems and identify solutions and

1474
02:36:45,490 --> 02:36:52,230
alternatives and anticipate the issues that come up with those things from communication to solutions.

1475
02:36:54,290 --> 02:37:00,650
And then in the city manager's office, it's obvious to me after spending some time that there's just not enough bandwidth.

1476
02:37:00,650 --> 02:37:06,450
And I'm not suggesting that we need a deputy city manager or an assistant city manager.

1477
02:37:07,230 --> 02:37:16,630
My own views, I don't think we do, but I do think we need someone who is capable to undertake a variety of analytical assignments.

1478
02:37:17,190 --> 02:37:23,010
I don't know that we have the need for a full time person in that capacity in the city manager's office.

1479
02:37:23,010 --> 02:37:26,790
I think in the city we do, there's plenty of issues in the different departments.

1480
02:37:26,790 --> 02:37:41,310
I would say this is kind of a utility player, someone who can sit in my corner, but be assigned out to work on something in the library or the public works department or elsewhere, and then also do some things for me, which would be great.

1481
02:37:42,170 --> 02:37:42,870
Next slide,

1482
02:37:47,800 --> 02:37:56,180
this goal goes to the fraud waste and abuse, but mostly goes to financial controls and systems more than anything.

1483
02:37:56,180 --> 02:38:07,960
There was a lot of discussion, and I'll be honest, I think a lot of it was incorrect misplaced around failures or inadequacies in our finance world.

1484
02:38:08,340 --> 02:38:13,320
We actually have a lot of protections and proper practices.

1485
02:38:14,320 --> 02:38:18,300
Some of them maybe aren't fully implemented or some of them may not be fully transparent.

1486
02:38:18,880 --> 02:38:21,740
So I think we need to examine those and that's what this goal is about.

1487
02:38:21,740 --> 02:38:29,020
looking at all of our different financial practices are reporting schedules, transparency around

1488
02:38:29,020 --> 02:38:33,220
some of those things, just making sure that data and the studies and the reports that we do

1489
02:38:33,220 --> 02:38:39,020
are available to the public, but also that the best practices around internal controls and systems

1490
02:38:39,020 --> 02:38:43,740
are also in place. So a lot of this is examination again and then action based on what those

1491
02:38:43,740 --> 02:38:49,000
examination is real. Next one. CIP and infrastructure.

1492
02:38:51,280 --> 02:38:53,360
This then again goes to the

1493
02:38:53,360 --> 02:38:58,640
discolored water. You'll see that repeatedly in our goals and you see it at the

1494
02:38:58,640 --> 02:39:03,920
very top. I just really think we need to focus a lot and get this thing resolved.

1495
02:39:05,100 --> 02:39:09,140
And then also just a better job of reporting on what we're doing, the progress

1496
02:39:09,140 --> 02:39:13,660
that we're making. There's a lot of different projects going on and I just don't

1497
02:39:13,660 --> 02:39:25,780
I don't think that it's not a need to brag, but it's just a share that we're getting stuff done, both from enterprise capital projects of water and waste water, general fund.

1498
02:39:25,840 --> 02:39:32,440
There's a lot going on, we should share that with the community, and we need to do a better job of coordinating and communicating.

1499
02:39:33,360 --> 02:39:40,420
Preventing maintenance is an area too that had a lot of focus in the Blackbird report.

1500
02:39:40,420 --> 02:39:46,500
There's no doubt that we can do a better job of tracking a variety of maintenance needs.

1501
02:39:46,800 --> 02:39:51,560
So that we're less reactive and more proactive, that we're better informed about things.

1502
02:39:51,640 --> 02:39:58,600
We get things on a proper schedule and cycle, so we can repair them before they go bad at night.

1503
02:40:00,340 --> 02:40:06,140
And then just a better practice of reporting, communicating and

1504
02:40:06,140 --> 02:40:10,760
reporting on our various infrastructure activities,

1505
02:40:11,000 --> 02:40:13,920
those that go well and those that don't go so well.

1506
02:40:15,280 --> 02:40:20,100
This is one scenario that really is not touched on in the Blackburg report.

1507
02:40:20,480 --> 02:40:25,660
It's an area that seems to me that is right for conversation.

1508
02:40:26,800 --> 02:40:29,460
It has a potential to get a lot of attention.

1509
02:40:29,660 --> 02:40:33,160
I think people be very interested in this, but I think we ought to explore it.

1510
02:40:33,160 --> 02:40:35,900
We're not to solve it, but I think starting would be good.

1511
02:40:36,860 --> 02:40:40,720
And so the first part, I don't think anybody disagrees with, make things go faster and

1512
02:40:40,720 --> 02:40:43,660
better and more smoothly in the permit processing.

1513
02:40:43,880 --> 02:40:47,660
And that's all kinds of different things, part of what we were just talking about with ADUs.

1514
02:40:48,220 --> 02:40:52,340
Make our regulations more clear, more consistent, be more helpful.

1515
02:40:53,400 --> 02:40:59,220
And I think we should do that and we should identify those areas where we may have bottlenecks,

1516
02:40:59,740 --> 02:41:00,400
and fix them.

1517
02:41:00,400 --> 02:41:01,100
So make them go away.

1518
02:41:03,200 --> 02:41:07,920
The other few here are maybe a little more controversial.

1519
02:41:08,580 --> 02:41:13,120
And that's to explore some of the big issues that just continue to linger.

1520
02:41:14,000 --> 02:41:16,880
So some study sessions around affordable housing.

1521
02:41:17,180 --> 02:41:20,660
We've had conversation about, do we have a housing strategy?

1522
02:41:21,460 --> 02:41:22,700
What is that housing strategy?

1523
02:41:23,400 --> 02:41:26,400
A lot of people point to the housing element, say there's our strategy.

1524
02:41:26,680 --> 02:41:28,660
That's not our strategy, that's an element.

1525
02:41:28,660 --> 02:41:33,500
The strategy needs way more focus and agreement.

1526
02:41:34,820 --> 02:41:37,000
Landry strategies come into play as well.

1527
02:41:37,340 --> 02:41:44,640
The status of the downtown specific plan is important to talk about water issues and

1528
02:41:44,640 --> 02:41:48,080
the water neutrality policies are also things that are out there.

1529
02:41:48,340 --> 02:41:53,280
I think there's a great need to try to have some conversation about those and then take

1530
02:41:53,280 --> 02:41:55,240
action to address them.

1531
02:41:55,240 --> 02:42:05,840
The urban limit line and the sphere of influence feasibility analysis, this is an area that I think is important to pursue.

1532
02:42:06,340 --> 02:42:10,320
The sphere of influence, we've already had some conversation about that.

1533
02:42:10,620 --> 02:42:12,820
That presently is being reviewed by Lafko.

1534
02:42:13,560 --> 02:42:21,360
And that's the area that the city might grow into in the not too distant future, and so we're looking at that.

1535
02:42:21,360 --> 02:42:39,140
That urban limit line is a different kind of conversation, so that's looking within our city limits at land that is presently outside the urban limit line and just having a conversation about does it make sense to perhaps consider moving that line to basically allow more property to be available for development.

1536
02:42:39,140 --> 02:42:50,720
Part of this is spawned by just the need for development, which is in my mind, selective

1537
02:42:50,720 --> 02:42:56,980
development of an appropriate nature and scale, I think, is good and would help us in a

1538
02:42:56,980 --> 02:43:00,740
variety of ways in the community from vitality to financial strength.

1539
02:43:01,300 --> 02:43:04,860
The other is around housing, which goes back to the housing strategy.

1540
02:43:04,860 --> 02:43:12,700
We have 12 opportunity sites, and those are two of them, hotly contested.

1541
02:43:13,280 --> 02:43:20,960
They introduced land use densities in an area that are different than what's immediately surrounding them.

1542
02:43:21,520 --> 02:43:25,720
The thought of expanding the urban limeline makes the pie bigger,

1543
02:43:26,280 --> 02:43:34,360
provides more sites that may be suitable for housing, could relieve the pressure on areas that may be more finite.

1544
02:43:34,360 --> 02:43:39,760
and just helps us to sort of chart our future as we move along.

1545
02:43:43,140 --> 02:43:46,240
I don't know what the last one's about, so we'll skip that for now.

1546
02:43:46,940 --> 02:43:50,120
How about number six? And then this is about standards and services.

1547
02:43:51,220 --> 02:43:55,340
This is just really about engagement with the community and practices.

1548
02:43:55,460 --> 02:44:00,080
Again, Blackbird touched on this. We hear I hear from folks in the community

1549
02:44:00,080 --> 02:44:06,280
that, you know, communication isn't as great as it should be, it's not as quick people may not be as responsive as it should be.

1550
02:44:06,480 --> 02:44:15,860
So this is just doing, you know, what I think is just good practices, establishing very clear protocols and timelines and expectations for communication.

1551
02:44:16,520 --> 02:44:22,400
The other part, though, is the engagement expectations, and that's like, how do we engage with people?

1552
02:44:22,400 --> 02:44:23,660
So what's our attitude?

1553
02:44:24,380 --> 02:44:28,500
And we should establish an attitude of respect, friendliness,

1554
02:44:29,140 --> 02:44:32,860
helplessness, trying to solve problems, as opposed to just saying here's what the code says.

1555
02:44:33,220 --> 02:44:37,860
But being very proactive, and that's up and down the line, my conversations with staff

1556
02:44:38,900 --> 02:44:45,120
indicates to me that they're hungry for that, to have that empowerment and

1557
02:44:45,120 --> 02:44:50,860
to have the confidence that they're moving forward with pursuing the expectations that have been laid out for them.

1558
02:44:50,860 --> 02:44:53,420
I think if we could do that, that would be very positive.

1559
02:44:54,220 --> 02:44:59,960
And then, different dashboards to reflect the performance, the actual...

1560
02:45:00,240 --> 02:45:29,760
Goals that we have, the performance that we're achieving, where we stand, just so we can actually measure things, we can talk about it, but we want to measure things to be able to demonstrate what that is. And resident engagement, this is an idea that Mayor and I have kicked around a bit, and that's like, to actually get out into the community, have conversations with people, not just here, but to actually have engagement. I think Mr. Park raised that in his communication about, let's have communications that are on our table.

1561
02:45:29,760 --> 02:45:44,040
So you can have, you know, town hall meetings or neighborhood meetings, there's a lot of issues that people would like to share thoughts with and that's really what these parts about, but it all goes into an idea of standards and services, how we communicate, how we engage with the community.

1562
02:45:45,240 --> 02:45:46,120
Anymore here, Andrew?

1563
02:45:47,320 --> 02:45:53,320
That kind of restates what is outlined in the report just about timing, what not sorry, well, almost done.

1564
02:45:54,320 --> 02:45:55,160
Last one, I hope.

1565
02:45:55,640 --> 02:45:56,340
Yes, look at that.

1566
02:45:56,720 --> 02:45:57,060
Questions.

1567
02:45:57,060 --> 02:46:00,040
So, that's it in a big nutshell.

1568
02:46:01,460 --> 02:46:07,000
The plan itself is laid out in greater detail, and I'm sure folks have had a chance

1569
02:46:07,000 --> 02:46:08,360
to study it a bit.

1570
02:46:09,100 --> 02:46:19,480
What would be great would be if you can work your way through and adopt this, or give me a

1571
02:46:19,480 --> 02:46:25,980
thumbs up so we can move forward, particularly around the reorganization ideas and some key

1572
02:46:25,980 --> 02:46:30,340
be hires because we would like to move forward quickly.

1573
02:46:30,520 --> 02:46:36,440
Some of these are more important, more timely, more urgent, frankly, than others.

1574
02:46:37,780 --> 02:46:46,740
I could also say that from a budget standpoint, many of the most of the reorganization ideas are cost neutrals.

1575
02:46:46,920 --> 02:46:53,160
We already have budgeted positions, folks in those positions in some cases, some of the positions are vacant.

1576
02:46:53,160 --> 02:46:57,560
Again, we would change some of them and we'd just be able to move funds around.

1577
02:46:58,060 --> 02:47:04,560
There are two positions that would be additions, that's the HR director and the management

1578
02:47:04,560 --> 02:47:12,380
analyst, and then the consultant costs are a little unknown because we haven't skoked

1579
02:47:12,380 --> 02:47:18,500
that out or we haven't gotten proposals, but just sort of an educated estimate probably

1580
02:47:18,500 --> 02:47:32,860
It puts additional costs around $250,000 to maybe $500,000, $525,000, depending on where salaries fall out and what those contracts might cost.

1581
02:47:33,500 --> 02:47:40,460
We don't have to do all of that, those things which are not budgeted of I would of course bring back and we can have conversation about those.

1582
02:47:40,660 --> 02:47:46,000
And as we press forward, we'll be reporting back on progress and actions and what not.

1583
02:47:48,490 --> 02:47:49,230
That's it.

1584
02:47:50,470 --> 02:47:50,650
All right.

1585
02:47:51,030 --> 02:47:56,050
Thank you for that very interesting presentation.

1586
02:47:57,630 --> 02:47:59,350
I know you've given a lot of thought about it.

1587
02:47:59,410 --> 02:48:02,350
Let me ask a question so that we have some clarification for the community.

1588
02:48:05,450 --> 02:48:10,170
So the BlackBerk report suggests that we do some strategic planning,

1589
02:48:10,590 --> 02:48:13,470
and really that's more community-based, right?

1590
02:48:13,790 --> 02:48:16,270
So sort of visioning, who do we want to be?

1591
02:48:16,270 --> 02:48:22,610
Who are we? Who do we want to be? Where are we going? That kind of engagement, two-way engagement with the community.

1592
02:48:23,850 --> 02:48:37,210
So I think Mr. Hale raised a point about, you know, we seem to be moving in parts of this, the look very internal, probably necessary within the city council, the city manager form of government.

1593
02:48:37,410 --> 02:48:45,390
Those are a lot of decisions that the city manager would make. It just seems like, and I support it by the way.

1594
02:48:45,390 --> 02:48:52,590
But it seems like parts that maybe are more, hey, we need to hear from the community first.

1595
02:48:54,230 --> 02:48:57,470
And maybe it's just an evolution of how we get there.

1596
02:48:57,570 --> 02:48:59,170
And it seems like you've laid it out. You said interim.

1597
02:49:00,850 --> 02:49:02,250
What is your response to that?

1598
02:49:02,410 --> 02:49:07,610
I think there's some merit to the criticism, but I also think that there's some need to move forward in these areas.

1599
02:49:08,750 --> 02:49:13,090
But also keep in mind that we at some point really need to hear from our community

1600
02:49:13,670 --> 02:49:25,810
on the big picture of where we want to be, you talk to your study session, those are more finite areas of the city government like water or housing those kinds of things.

1601
02:49:26,210 --> 02:49:31,810
Talk a little bit about the distinction, I guess, and what your plan is maybe for seven, eight months from now.

1602
02:49:31,810 --> 02:49:44,910
Yeah, yeah. So I think part of it is internal stuff. And so it's gathering data about standard operating procedures and financial controls and processes and all of that.

1603
02:49:45,110 --> 02:49:55,490
So that's internal, how to make ourselves more knowledgeable about what we're already doing, what we're not doing, improving that, making the machine work better. That's internal stuff.

1604
02:49:57,210 --> 02:50:25,070
another part which I find more internal is some is the reorganization so that's like how do we do stuff and so that's moving things around folks may have an opinion about that and I would welcome it I've heard opinions too which sort of influenced this and so I think it reflects a lot from the community I'm sure there are folks who have different opinions like you got it wrong or I didn't go far enough or I didn't think about this.

1605
02:50:25,070 --> 02:50:31,330
open to that too. Some of the other things though, I do agree, they're bigger and so should

1606
02:50:31,330 --> 02:50:35,990
we move the urban limit line? That's a big thing. What's our housing strategy? That's

1607
02:50:35,990 --> 02:50:41,790
a big thing. And so I do think that those will just sort of, they'll work themselves out.

1608
02:50:42,030 --> 02:50:47,670
So if the council says yes, we're not afraid to have that conversation, let's start it. Then

1609
02:50:47,670 --> 02:50:52,190
we'll start it. And we'll figure out what the elements are to have a conversation in a

1610
02:50:53,030 --> 02:50:56,310
comprehensive, complete, welcoming, open session.

1611
02:50:56,590 --> 02:50:59,710
So everybody gets to put their two cents worth in.

1612
02:51:00,410 --> 02:51:02,230
So maybe I see a little bit different,

1613
02:51:02,390 --> 02:51:06,770
that I don't, I don't think we're locking anybody out

1614
02:51:06,770 --> 02:51:07,790
of that conversation.

1615
02:51:08,470 --> 02:51:12,070
I expect that we will be actively including people.

1616
02:51:12,330 --> 02:51:15,110
And even if we're not, I've come to learn that people

1617
02:51:15,590 --> 02:51:17,130
want to be included, and they get included,

1618
02:51:17,130 --> 02:51:18,310
so they will be included.

1619
02:51:18,310 --> 02:51:22,130
So, you know, we're going into it, I think, with our eyes open on that.

1620
02:51:22,590 --> 02:51:28,470
The other thing is, I'll just come back to some of the important things, and

1621
02:51:28,470 --> 02:51:33,590
that's in our infrastructure and our continued delivery of projects.

1622
02:51:33,770 --> 02:51:38,770
I just think we need a framework to make that, to continue to make it successful.

1623
02:51:38,990 --> 02:51:41,790
And to try to improve upon it in those areas that might be a little bit rough.

1624
02:51:42,570 --> 02:51:47,310
You know, we can help get somebody, I hope, who can help us scope things more completely.

1625
02:51:47,310 --> 02:51:51,630
So we're doing things, you know, one time, not two or three times with amendments and whatnot.

1626
02:51:51,910 --> 02:51:53,070
All right, thank you for that.

1627
02:51:54,230 --> 02:51:57,290
Other clarifying questions as we get late into the night.

1628
02:51:57,950 --> 02:51:59,110
Let me open it for public comment.

1629
02:51:59,490 --> 02:52:04,930
And I want to mention that we did, I think you may have mentioned this, we have received public comment from Elaine Demand.

1630
02:52:05,350 --> 02:52:08,250
Kelly, Kelly, we didn't, Daniel, there may be more, but those are the three.

1631
02:52:08,550 --> 02:52:10,550
I read public comment.

1632
02:52:21,710 --> 02:52:30,150
I think one of the biggest problems we've had for a long time is staff, swims, and ambiguity,

1633
02:52:30,870 --> 02:52:38,430
a lot to no fault of their own, just because in terms of organizational structure, what you're supposed to prioritize,

1634
02:52:38,430 --> 02:52:45,110
when it's really unclear often and I think everyone would love to have some

1635
02:52:45,110 --> 02:52:51,270
clear direction and clear guidelines and clear ability and understanding of

1636
02:52:51,270 --> 02:52:55,490
what we're trying to do at a staff level which means then all of a sudden the

1637
02:52:55,490 --> 02:53:02,150
council's job instead of you having to kind of dance around perceived potential

1638
02:53:02,150 --> 02:53:10,890
issues you can say okay great let's go so are there bits and pieces that need to be

1639
02:53:10,890 --> 02:53:18,430
adjusted sure maybe probably but great here we are I mean it seems like it's been a very

1640
02:53:18,430 --> 02:53:28,550
long time coming it's a very succinct list so yeah let's move and make everybody's life better

1641
02:53:28,550 --> 02:53:30,990
and staff's lives easier.

1642
02:53:31,990 --> 02:53:32,550
Great.

1643
02:53:35,720 --> 02:53:36,560
Thank you, others.

1644
02:53:42,170 --> 02:53:43,470
Hi, I'm Deanna Griffin.

1645
02:53:43,730 --> 02:53:45,030
I'm a resident of St. Helena

1646
02:53:45,030 --> 02:53:47,230
and also the Director of Friends and Foundation

1647
02:53:47,230 --> 02:53:48,910
that benefits your public library.

1648
02:53:50,210 --> 02:53:52,230
I do want to thank all of the staff,

1649
02:53:53,010 --> 02:53:56,230
all the council, all of the past long-suffering residents

1650
02:53:56,230 --> 02:54:00,810
and everyone for the efforts that culminate in this proposal.

1651
02:54:00,810 --> 02:54:01,710
This is an interim.

1652
02:54:02,210 --> 02:54:02,930
It's not final.

1653
02:54:02,930 --> 02:54:10,290
It's not even super specific in lots of ways, but my hope is that those of you here on

1654
02:54:10,290 --> 02:54:15,890
Council can consider it and think about which elements are things that you could rapidly

1655
02:54:15,890 --> 02:54:16,890
move forward on.

1656
02:54:18,830 --> 02:54:23,970
As Joshua just said, there's unlikely to be agreement about everything, but perhaps you

1657
02:54:23,970 --> 02:54:30,250
can come to some agreements about elements that can more hastily have the vision of this

1658
02:54:30,250 --> 02:54:39,710
this team, our city, yourselves, come to fruition to a greater facilitation of ease, efficiency, and effectiveness, which is what we're all hoping for in this city.

1659
02:54:40,490 --> 02:54:46,130
All specifically say that it has been an exciting ride to be on the experimental

1660
02:54:47,970 --> 02:54:51,630
community services opportunity.

1661
02:54:52,050 --> 02:54:58,330
And Jim, you pointed out that yes, many cities around our county and our country, our state use lots of different models.

1662
02:54:58,330 --> 02:55:08,310
but looking at how when cooperative empowered individuals who are leading their function areas are also empowered to work together.

1663
02:55:08,750 --> 02:55:19,350
Some of the synergies or efficiencies that once had been touted as needing another level of management to facilitate may or may not be requiring that kind of oversight.

1664
02:55:19,970 --> 02:55:26,750
So I just want to say thanks and please consider the things that can move forward to move forward fast. Thank you.

1665
02:55:26,750 --> 02:55:26,810
Yeah.

1666
02:55:28,570 --> 02:55:29,230
Thank you.

1667
02:55:35,740 --> 02:55:36,200
All right.

1668
02:55:36,780 --> 02:55:39,560
Does it look like we have any more takers?

1669
02:55:41,000 --> 02:55:41,880
Close public comment.

1670
02:55:42,020 --> 02:55:42,480
Bring it back.

1671
02:55:43,940 --> 02:55:44,620
What do you think?

1672
02:55:46,950 --> 02:55:47,950
Ms. Diaz, what do you think?

1673
02:55:48,350 --> 02:55:49,530
You read it to support?

1674
02:55:49,790 --> 02:55:50,790
I'm ready to support.

1675
02:55:50,970 --> 02:55:51,810
I think it's great.

1676
02:55:52,010 --> 02:55:58,370
I actually think there's a lot here, but what we've just gone through on the screen is really exciting actually.

1677
02:55:58,670 --> 02:55:59,970
It's a special time right now.

1678
02:56:00,070 --> 02:56:04,430
I like that everything that was mentioned in the Blackbird study was covered in here.

1679
02:56:04,430 --> 02:56:07,510
I think it's a great starting point.

1680
02:56:07,710 --> 02:56:09,110
I think it's a positive thread.

1681
02:56:09,690 --> 02:56:14,370
We covered staffing and organizational structure process, finance controls, technology,

1682
02:56:14,810 --> 02:56:17,230
and most importantly, the water quality.

1683
02:56:17,450 --> 02:56:20,210
I love that that's in their front and center in the top.

1684
02:56:20,430 --> 02:56:25,790
But I think there are a lot of things we can move forward with holistically.

1685
02:56:25,990 --> 02:56:26,950
This is just a draft.

1686
02:56:27,730 --> 02:56:30,790
I think you've done a wonderful job in putting this together.

1687
02:56:30,930 --> 02:56:32,890
I think it was well laid out, well thought out.

1688
02:56:32,890 --> 02:56:38,070
And I think it gives us a lot of inspiration for what can be down the road.

1689
02:56:38,630 --> 02:56:44,810
I would be remiss if I didn't mention a few areas of observation and points for consideration.

1690
02:56:47,230 --> 02:56:53,070
Significantly, the title interim city manager, we have you, you've come up with this wonderful plan.

1691
02:56:53,170 --> 02:57:00,010
But I think if we're moving all this forward with the interim, we just need to be aware that there are six new positions being created.

1692
02:57:00,010 --> 02:57:08,350
There are three department splits going on, a significant reorganization that the new city manager will inherit.

1693
02:57:08,870 --> 02:57:11,750
And we're a city we need to keep moving forward.

1694
02:57:12,370 --> 02:57:20,850
So that's just a point for consideration because these are a lot of big decisions being made by someone who's going to be here in the short term.

1695
02:57:21,030 --> 02:57:23,090
So I think that's just a point for consideration.

1696
02:57:23,490 --> 02:57:29,370
And also Jim knew I would cover the budget here because I didn't see a budget in there but you've mentioned a dollar figure.

1697
02:57:29,370 --> 02:57:35,550
I think the vote here tonight is really structurally insulated from any sort of cost objection,

1698
02:57:35,810 --> 02:57:42,610
but I do see a way that staff can come back to us with this information.

1699
02:57:42,850 --> 02:57:49,170
So I am in favor of this, and it's really inspirational to see all of this come together.

1700
02:57:49,910 --> 02:57:53,790
We didn't want it on the shelf, we didn't want the Blackbird Report to just go away.

1701
02:57:53,970 --> 02:57:56,450
And so we're three months later and we have something.

1702
02:57:56,450 --> 02:58:06,230
And so I'm really inspired by this, and I think there's a lot here that we can move forward right away, and I think it's a good plan.

1703
02:58:08,840 --> 02:58:09,800
All right, excellent comments.

1704
02:58:11,640 --> 02:58:13,000
How about Ms. Barrett?

1705
02:58:13,140 --> 02:58:23,280
Yeah, second, what Council Member Diaz said, we definitely should support this.

1706
02:58:23,280 --> 02:58:29,380
We're not all going to agree on anything, but I would suggest that we have a special session to get more in the details.

1707
02:58:30,060 --> 02:58:51,900
It's hard to talk about all the details specifically in a short period of time, but these are very substantial areas here that I'd like to delve in more and hear more of the staff's thoughts, not just from Jim, but from the directors of the proposed changes and get their rationale and maybe have some input.

1708
02:58:51,900 --> 02:58:55,680
But I'm sure my colleagues would like to have that too on certain areas.

1709
02:58:56,420 --> 02:59:00,880
I'd like to see that in the process instead of just firing it off.

1710
02:59:01,600 --> 02:59:06,600
Because we will have new city manager and new employees that those integration points.

1711
02:59:08,340 --> 02:59:13,860
And it could be that you don't want things going too far down the road that somebody

1712
02:59:13,860 --> 02:59:17,520
news going to come in and have to have to curtail back.

1713
02:59:18,700 --> 02:59:25,020
So there is some delicacy there, but there's no reason to not go forward with it.

1714
02:59:26,200 --> 02:59:26,320
All right.

1715
02:59:28,020 --> 02:59:28,600
Nice, Mayor.

1716
02:59:28,900 --> 02:59:28,980
Yes.

1717
02:59:29,620 --> 02:59:29,860
Please.

1718
02:59:30,620 --> 02:59:32,080
I wanted to say thank you.

1719
02:59:32,340 --> 02:59:36,840
I think the presentation and report really hit the mark.

1720
02:59:36,840 --> 02:59:42,220
So first of all, thank you to Councilmember Barrack, who kind of started us off on this with

1721
02:59:42,220 --> 02:59:52,600
the Transformation Efficiency Study a while ago, I thought it was amazing to see so much

1722
02:59:52,600 --> 02:59:58,000
of what was in that study be included here and then it actually went beyond it.

1723
02:59:58,000 --> 02:59:59,940
So, to some things that we-

1724
03:00:00,000 --> 03:00:28,640
We've talked about for a decade that we had, you know, like, you know, suggestions that are around for a decade by a lot of people and they seem to make sense. And you've incorporated it. So anyway, I thought it was great. I guess I'm more like, hey, go, go do it. I as is how I'm feeling. I'm feeling that good about this. It was hard for me to see where it seems very operational.

1725
03:00:28,640 --> 03:00:34,400
So I was maybe having a harder time seeing where it could go too far and it felt to me like

1726
03:00:36,460 --> 03:00:43,560
They're that kind of caught that balance of hitting the operational stuff that is almost harder to argue with and then not delving into the

1727
03:00:43,560 --> 03:00:51,400
North Star strategy, which would be left for the city manager. So I thought a good job was done on that so

1728
03:00:52,740 --> 03:00:56,860
Yeah, the one thing I had is you know a couple of areas on

1729
03:00:57,360 --> 03:01:25,440
On the HR position, I sort of was just one I feel strongly about and so I kind of wanted the details on that is it really going to be a strategic person as opposed to someone processing a lot of paperwork on some of the bigger stuff I do wonder if maybe that's too soon like all of the really big strategic land use stuff should that be a hell if you want to push anything back and maybe incorporating more economic development maybe that's not important as important right now in this short term but I thought it was great thank you.

1730
03:01:28,390 --> 03:01:34,850
Thank you very much staff for this report, I think this has been very well done.

1731
03:01:35,010 --> 03:01:40,970
And I know manager McCann had mentioned Andrew Bryanley, Yarsity Clark, thank you very much.

1732
03:01:41,150 --> 03:01:45,430
They're all of this hard work that you guys have put in, it doesn't go unnoticed, obviously.

1733
03:01:45,970 --> 03:01:48,170
But even the community loves it as well.

1734
03:01:48,870 --> 03:01:53,970
My only thing would be, I just would want to kind of echo, I already know this is being

1735
03:01:53,970 --> 03:02:06,030
And I just have the feeling to say, I guess, is the prioritization, making sure we're actually prioritizing certain things we want to get done and actually getting them done rather than getting too excited and trying to attack too many things at one time.

1736
03:02:06,550 --> 03:02:07,310
That would be my only thing.

1737
03:02:11,530 --> 03:02:13,770
American, we have an extension, it's nine.

1738
03:02:14,270 --> 03:02:18,530
Look for a motion to extend to 920.

1739
03:02:18,990 --> 03:02:21,710
I'll make a motion to extend in 930.

1740
03:02:22,850 --> 03:02:23,690
That's the-

1741
03:02:27,550 --> 03:02:29,770
You're cutting into my social hours Mr. Barrett.

1742
03:02:29,950 --> 03:02:31,130
No, I'm just getting my own two.

1743
03:02:31,170 --> 03:02:33,790
There's a motion and a second from somebody.

1744
03:02:34,590 --> 03:02:35,550
Did you have a second?

1745
03:02:36,070 --> 03:02:37,290
Stand in 930, please.

1746
03:02:38,810 --> 03:02:39,630
Roll call, please.

1747
03:02:40,050 --> 03:02:40,730
Councilmember Barrett.

1748
03:02:40,870 --> 03:02:40,990
Yes.

1749
03:02:40,990 --> 03:02:42,050
Councilmember Spadarato.

1750
03:02:42,250 --> 03:02:42,350
Yes.

1751
03:02:42,530 --> 03:02:43,350
Councilmember Diaz.

1752
03:02:43,610 --> 03:02:43,830
Yes.

1753
03:02:44,210 --> 03:02:44,890
Vice Mayor Dixing.

1754
03:02:45,050 --> 03:02:45,210
Yes.

1755
03:02:45,430 --> 03:02:45,770
Mayor Dixing.

1756
03:02:46,030 --> 03:02:46,150
Yes.

1757
03:02:47,190 --> 03:02:51,590
I think my colleagues have given the direction that I agree with wholeheartedly.

1758
03:02:52,050 --> 03:02:55,790
A little bit more detail, but I think generally I'm a thumbs up, two thumbs up, actually.

1759
03:02:59,870 --> 03:03:02,990
I guess I'm really quite impressed by the ambition.

1760
03:03:05,370 --> 03:03:10,450
There's a lot here and it's going to take a lot of thinking and a lot of work by existing

1761
03:03:10,450 --> 03:03:40,090
in staff to sort of organize a lot of this, but I think the Blackbird study hit the mark on a lot of these areas and so we've been given the message and we've taken the message to heart and now we need to deliver on implementing the message so I don't really have any concern, I think I probably will as it rolls out and things slowly come our way as others have, that's just natural, but in general taking the bull by the horns, which you've done.

1762
03:03:40,090 --> 03:03:43,670
One, frankly, is really pretty impressive.

1763
03:03:43,890 --> 03:03:45,730
I'm very pleased with that.

1764
03:03:45,990 --> 03:03:47,590
I think there's just a lot of opportunities.

1765
03:03:48,350 --> 03:03:50,930
I do want to make sure that we continue to keep.

1766
03:03:51,490 --> 03:03:57,650
I really fundamentally have great respect for the council city manager form of government.

1767
03:03:58,130 --> 03:04:03,230
And this is an example where the city manager, you never know what you're going to get in the city manager.

1768
03:04:03,450 --> 03:04:09,130
But hopefully we'll have a city manager who will have that same sort of ambition and

1769
03:04:09,130 --> 03:04:12,190
And look at these things as necessary and sort of fundamental, frankly.

1770
03:04:12,710 --> 03:04:14,030
I don't think there are any surprises here.

1771
03:04:14,850 --> 03:04:16,450
So I'm very pleased by that.

1772
03:04:16,550 --> 03:04:21,550
I think we need to move forward and get better as an organization.

1773
03:04:21,990 --> 03:04:26,270
But I also don't want to lose track of the fact that we need to continue to engage with

1774
03:04:26,270 --> 03:04:26,770
our public.

1775
03:04:27,970 --> 03:04:32,410
We can do all kinds of things, but if the public is like, what are you doing that for?

1776
03:04:32,550 --> 03:04:34,190
We don't have that commitment from the public.

1777
03:04:34,510 --> 03:04:38,690
And a sense of alignment there, we will run a stray.

1778
03:04:38,690 --> 03:04:43,650
Okay, so I think I'm very supportive, and so yeah, good luck next city manager.

1779
03:04:46,030 --> 03:04:47,030
I hope you'd like to.

1780
03:04:47,350 --> 03:04:54,810
Yeah, yeah, I'm just very optimistic, and I think it's a great plan with the reservations and the provisos I have.

1781
03:04:54,890 --> 03:04:56,290
Yeah, I'm very supportive, very optimistic.

1782
03:04:57,170 --> 03:04:58,050
You don't need anything else.

1783
03:04:59,110 --> 03:05:01,730
Any particular areas that-

1784
03:05:01,730 --> 03:05:10,270
I would love to have, you know, you all say, go forward and implement this, come back, report as we progress.

1785
03:05:10,670 --> 03:05:12,130
I think you've heard that from everyone, right?

1786
03:05:12,410 --> 03:05:25,870
And then I will take that as a direction to move forward with commencement of some of the reorganization and the key hires and when we bump into a budget matter will come back, but we'll also come back regularly just letting you know where we stand.

1787
03:05:26,950 --> 03:05:32,550
How do you think the staff will react to performance measures?

1788
03:05:33,350 --> 03:05:34,590
I think they'll react very well.

1789
03:05:35,050 --> 03:05:35,190
All right.

1790
03:05:35,670 --> 03:05:38,630
Yeah, I've spoken with folks who are affected by this.

1791
03:05:38,690 --> 03:05:38,790
Yeah.

1792
03:05:39,270 --> 03:05:40,090
People are excited.

1793
03:05:40,390 --> 03:05:40,590
Okay.

1794
03:05:40,790 --> 03:05:40,910
Cool.

1795
03:05:41,830 --> 03:05:46,830
I remember back in a day in California that this was a topic that was introduced.

1796
03:05:47,090 --> 03:05:48,650
And it was, it was resisted.

1797
03:05:48,730 --> 03:05:51,110
Honestly, I think there was a fear of what that meant.

1798
03:05:51,610 --> 03:05:54,950
And folks, you know, they felt that their job, oh, I didn't,

1799
03:05:54,950 --> 03:05:59,890
If I didn't meet this particular standard, it would affect my employment.

1800
03:06:00,210 --> 03:06:04,390
And so I have to be cautious of that, we're all human beings, relationship oriented.

1801
03:06:04,390 --> 03:06:08,470
I think we'll do well, and it's good to know that the staff is welcoming that.

1802
03:06:09,710 --> 03:06:10,190
All right.

1803
03:06:10,890 --> 03:06:12,110
Great, thank you very much.

1804
03:06:12,230 --> 03:06:12,890
Thank you, thank you, staff.

1805
03:06:14,010 --> 03:06:16,670
All right, all right, now we have one more.

1806
03:06:16,670 --> 03:06:29,330
Yes, so the next item is seeking approval of a resolution to authorize us to recruit for a police officer.

1807
03:06:29,430 --> 03:06:32,550
We have a vacancy that has just come up in our department.

1808
03:06:33,910 --> 03:06:38,310
And so we would very much like to fill that vacancy.

1809
03:06:38,310 --> 03:06:40,770
It takes a long time to get an officer.

1810
03:06:40,770 --> 03:06:46,630
We're usually, we need to go through the academy and sponsor them and it takes time.

1811
03:06:46,850 --> 03:06:49,550
So it's very good to be sort of in front of that.

1812
03:06:49,710 --> 03:06:57,190
Sometimes we do, we sort of anticipate that we may lose someone and we try to start that process.

1813
03:06:57,430 --> 03:07:04,550
So in this case, we're asking for authorization to allow us to recruit for the police officer to fill our vacant spot.

1814
03:07:04,830 --> 03:07:08,290
And the chief is here and he can certainly fill us in on the what and why of that.

1815
03:07:08,290 --> 03:07:19,350
But then, tagged on to this, we've also included a request to modify the position that

1816
03:07:19,350 --> 03:07:31,190
was taken some time ago to freeze the positions and to remove that freeze and allow the city

1817
03:07:31,190 --> 03:07:39,830
manager to fill positions as appropriate, and that requires that there be funding certainly available for that.

1818
03:07:40,370 --> 03:07:47,290
And City Manager would use his or her judgment as to what's appropriate, what positions need to be filled at what level.

1819
03:07:48,090 --> 03:07:56,070
And just in my mind just kind of get back to sort of a normal condition and allow that discretion to occur so that things can move smoothly and efficiently.

1820
03:07:56,070 --> 03:08:25,630
Again, within budget and a good practice is for the city manager to let the council know when there's a vacancy that's come up or when there's a vacancy that's been filled just to alert you to that not so much asking permission but more just keeping you a prize of what's going on in the organization and that certainly would be part of my practice and I'm sure part of any future city manager's practice so recommend that you adopt the resolution allowing us to go forward.

1821
03:08:25,630 --> 03:08:31,670
And Chief Thorpe is here if you have a question about particulars.

1822
03:08:32,810 --> 03:08:40,230
I'm not sure if anyone has just brief questions or they're more substantive about what has been said so far.

1823
03:08:41,190 --> 03:08:43,070
And I'll open it for public comment.

1824
03:08:43,170 --> 03:08:50,870
We'll bring it back that we can ask maybe more questions about the freeze, unfreeze issue.

1825
03:08:51,450 --> 03:08:53,330
Anybody wish to comment on this matter?

1826
03:08:55,780 --> 03:08:56,340
All right.

1827
03:08:56,340 --> 03:08:58,380
Let's bring off close public comment, bring it back.

1828
03:09:00,020 --> 03:09:09,360
I'm supportive of it, I don't know if others have issues about the free, the unfreezing of

1829
03:09:09,360 --> 03:09:09,840
the freeze.

1830
03:09:10,580 --> 03:09:10,960
That's sort of.

1831
03:09:11,380 --> 03:09:12,140
Maybe I can help.

1832
03:09:13,640 --> 03:09:20,060
There were, or there are five positions that I understand that are frozen and they're unfunded,

1833
03:09:20,080 --> 03:09:22,680
they're kind of across the board and different departments.

1834
03:09:23,180 --> 03:09:41,500
At the present time, we have six positions which are budgeted but they're vacant, folks who have left in the last couple of months, and in some cases, we just haven't been able to fill them or in other cases I haven't pursued moving forward to fill them because of some of the things we've just talked about.

1835
03:09:41,500 --> 03:09:51,080
And then in this discussion we just had about real reorganization and different opportunities.

1836
03:09:51,360 --> 03:09:54,460
There are two new positions and so those are also unfunded.

1837
03:09:54,680 --> 03:09:57,760
So we're not talking about a ton, but there are a number.

1838
03:09:58,280 --> 03:10:05,180
I would not expect that the, well, the frozen positions if they were unfrozen.

1839
03:10:05,560 --> 03:10:09,120
I would not expect that those would be filled when they're unfunded.

1840
03:10:09,120 --> 03:10:16,180
we need to address that, and then also, we need to take a look at where those are.

1841
03:10:16,300 --> 03:10:21,240
Some of them, I don't know that those positions are necessary, but it's just what I'm seeking

1842
03:10:21,240 --> 03:10:27,440
is the freedom to be able to react and to fill positions that are necessary appropriate

1843
03:10:27,440 --> 03:10:28,520
and that we are funding for.

1844
03:10:29,140 --> 03:10:29,340
All right.

1845
03:10:31,080 --> 03:10:36,420
Anyone wanting to make a motion, can we do a quick discussion?

1846
03:10:37,060 --> 03:10:51,840
Yeah, of course we could do it either after the motion or you can make the court go ahead now. Yeah. Yeah, I thought I asked questions so yeah, go ahead. So I am so excited about the last item and I want to say go for it. And then I hear.

1847
03:10:58,980 --> 03:11:10,860
I'm just thinking about, well, there, I think there are a lot of vacant positions we've never taken that look, it does that still exist there.

1848
03:11:11,760 --> 03:11:16,140
So I do trust you. Do I entrust everyone into the future?

1849
03:11:16,420 --> 03:11:17,180
I don't know,

1850
03:11:19,190 --> 03:11:19,950
candidly.

1851
03:11:22,790 --> 03:11:26,710
So the good thing about that is that there are performance reviews where you can express

1852
03:11:26,710 --> 03:11:28,110
your trust or lack thereof.

1853
03:11:28,410 --> 03:11:32,290
And then you guys get together every couple weeks and so you can take action if there's

1854
03:11:32,290 --> 03:11:33,150
an issue.

1855
03:11:33,410 --> 03:11:41,650
But yeah, I think I'm comfortable with this or things have changed since February 2025

1856
03:11:42,430 --> 03:11:50,290
when that got put in, there's been talk on the street and in the paper about the audited

1857
03:11:51,630 --> 03:11:58,490
financials, and we've got good news with those audited financials, and looking at them

1858
03:11:58,490 --> 03:12:04,750
it might appear to be so. However, the context with financials is important, and what we'll

1859
03:12:04,750 --> 03:12:10,150
find is that a lot of the good news is because there was action taken, like freezing positions,

1860
03:12:10,150 --> 03:12:38,910
and cutting budgets and not continuing or finishing projects that we wanted to get done and as those numbers come out to the public and this council, I think it will temper some of that and anybody in business and the executive suite will understand, understand that the numbers can tell a lot of different stories, not always the relevant story.

1861
03:12:38,910 --> 03:12:54,410
So, but with that being said, I think perhaps we've tightened too much and we need to invest in the city and so thank you for bringing this up and I'm supportive.

1862
03:12:58,890 --> 03:13:03,330
Well, I guess we could always reinstall the hiring freeze if we need to.

1863
03:13:06,110 --> 03:13:08,210
Yes, I'm going to support the freeze lift.

1864
03:13:08,210 --> 03:13:18,530
I just wanted to acknowledge that we've decided to set the or chart with the city manager in 13.2 and now we're lifting the freeze.

1865
03:13:18,730 --> 03:13:26,110
So now there's a lot of power being given, which is fine because the original freeze as you say was put in place at a different time.

1866
03:13:26,370 --> 03:13:29,270
And so maybe it shouldn't have been there, but who knows.

1867
03:13:29,270 --> 03:13:32,330
So, I am in favor of it, but I just wanted to point that out.

1868
03:13:35,850 --> 03:13:36,570
I'll look for motion.

1869
03:13:36,870 --> 03:13:41,330
I'll make a motion to adopt the resolution.

1870
03:13:43,130 --> 03:13:43,530
Second.

1871
03:13:44,210 --> 03:13:45,070
Motion to the second.

1872
03:13:46,010 --> 03:13:46,810
Further discussion?

1873
03:13:48,070 --> 03:13:48,470
Questions?

1874
03:13:50,370 --> 03:13:51,390
All right, roll call please.

1875
03:13:51,830 --> 03:13:52,610
Councilmember Barrick?

1876
03:13:52,850 --> 03:13:52,990
Yes.

1877
03:13:53,190 --> 03:13:54,070
Councilmember Spadarato?

1878
03:13:54,250 --> 03:13:54,390
Yes.

1879
03:13:54,630 --> 03:13:55,390
Councilmember Diaz?

1880
03:13:55,670 --> 03:13:55,850
Yes.

1881
03:13:56,150 --> 03:13:56,810
Vice Mayor D. Zing?

1882
03:13:56,970 --> 03:13:57,130
Yes.

1883
03:13:57,330 --> 03:13:57,450
Yes.

1884
03:13:58,570 --> 03:13:59,690
That motion passes unanimously.

1885
03:14:00,250 --> 03:14:01,090
Great, thank you very much.

1886
03:14:01,090 --> 03:14:02,010
All right, you're welcome.

1887
03:14:02,890 --> 03:14:03,530
All right.

1888
03:14:05,790 --> 03:14:06,670
Onto the end.

1889
03:14:06,910 --> 03:14:07,690
Council reports.

1890
03:14:09,270 --> 03:14:10,850
Anybody wishing to give a report?

1891
03:14:12,090 --> 03:14:17,230
A quick one, in the Climate Action Committee, there's a meeting on Friday.

1892
03:14:17,410 --> 03:14:22,550
We're continuing to talk about the RCAP Regional Climate Adaptation Plan.

1893
03:14:23,090 --> 03:14:28,470
There are some questions about, it's approval and when it's coming here and what we're locked

1894
03:14:28,470 --> 03:14:32,170
into or not, so we're, anyway, we'll have more on that soon.

1895
03:14:32,170 --> 03:14:34,910
All right, others?

1896
03:14:36,050 --> 03:14:37,650
All right, this meet.

1897
03:14:38,030 --> 03:14:45,910
Sorry, I have one update from the upfalley waste management, and it has to do with the Clover, the Clover language.

1898
03:14:46,970 --> 03:14:57,190
We did get an overview from representatives, and it's a very involved process that they've started.

1899
03:14:58,230 --> 03:14:59,710
They hope to finish.

1900
03:15:00,700 --> 03:15:27,640
The intent is still to close it. The board itself has no impact on this process at all. So we're really just observers at this point. There's six other state agencies that have to weigh in for different pieces, so it might come up in conversations with the community. All right. I think we had a lot of good discussions tonight, Mr. McCann, a lot of interesting policy discussions and work through a lot of issues.

1901
03:15:27,640 --> 03:15:42,060
And I think it may be a record, I don't know, I'm not keeping track, but the number of three to two votes, and alignments changing and shifting, and I actually kind of like to see that, I think it's pretty cool, it's good for democracy.

1902
03:15:42,560 --> 03:15:46,220
People have different views about things, so yeah, that's all good.

1903
03:15:46,480 --> 03:15:48,460
So I appreciate the public's participation.

1904
03:15:48,800 --> 03:15:51,500
I think we have a lot of work on our plate.

1905
03:15:51,500 --> 03:15:56,680
And yeah, don't forget to show up for what September 5th is the next one.

1906
03:15:56,740 --> 03:15:58,620
What we have some parties coming up.

1907
03:15:59,180 --> 03:15:59,820
Tell me again.

1908
03:16:00,240 --> 03:16:04,480
September 5th for the Cheers to 150 years at Library and Adams Lane.

1909
03:16:05,100 --> 03:16:09,680
And then next council meeting is September 8th, 9th, September 9th.

1910
03:16:09,800 --> 03:16:10,600
All right, thank you.

1911
03:16:10,920 --> 03:16:11,760
This meeting is adjourned.

1912
03:16:11,840 --> 03:16:12,360
Good night everyone.

1913
03:16:12,680 --> 03:16:13,180
Thank you.