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yes ma'am thank you

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we're calling the st louis county
council uh committee of the hole to

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order october 5 2021 it is now 1pm
we are to discuss the appointment

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including personnel matters of dr faisal
khan as director of department of public

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health
please call the romance clerk

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council member days here council member
dunaway

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council member fitch here
council member webb

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council member clancy
here

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council member tracus frozen
councilmember harding president

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madam chair you have a quorum thank you
very much as i mentioned the purpose

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before
uh i don't really have any um any

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introductory remarks right now uh any
comments from the

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council before i move to go into
executive session

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no comments all right uh i would i i can
get a motion to go into executive

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session please oh moved
uh pursuant to rsmo

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610.021 for n1 for n3 and paren 13 and
four point zero two zero corinne one

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three and thirteen st louis county
revised ordinances uh is there a second

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to that motion
all in favor please say aye

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aye those opposed no
madam chair we need a roll call i'm

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sorry i'm sorry i forgot roll call
please on the motion to go in a closed

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session council member days aye
councilmember dunaway

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council member fitch hi
councilmember webb council member clancy

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hi hi

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i'm sorry madam chair the record will
reflect that council member webb has

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joined the meeting and voted i
council member trachus hi

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councilmember harder hi
madam chair on the motion to go into

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closed session there are six eyes and
one absent thank you very much motion

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passes uh kevin would you make the
necessary preparations and those who are

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uh not part of this
uh or escort it out thank you

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uh kevin are we to remain on this link
or is there a different link

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yes ma'am you can stay on that link
we're gonna switch over to the

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recordings so it'll be just a minute
here

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everything

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so

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members of the public the council will
be returning to open session here in

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just a moment
thank you

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members of the public the chair is
taking her seat and the open session

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in just a moment
you're good

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man i'm sure

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sorry there you go we have returned to
the open session uh are there any other

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comments from the council members yes
madam chair

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yes
councilwoman clancy

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yes um
i would like to enter into the record a

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letter that we each received along with
the county executive from the st louis

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county human relations commission on
august 13

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2021.
in that letter

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they wrote to us
um

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a couple of things but one there were a
couple comments i wanted to highlight

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they were speaking about the the now
infamous july 27th meeting and they

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write we were collectively horrified at
the nasty words of so many residents who

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spoke then during public comments and
disappointed that those who offered

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misinformation in venom this week were
not challenged it must have been

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difficult for you to hear as well
in this letter they also make a few

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recommendations
as the human relations commission

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via ordinance they um are empowered to
act in an advisory capacity to foster

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mutual self-respect and to further
amicable relations among the various

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segments of the population which
together compromise the county and one

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of their recommendations and advisory
activities that they have said are that

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they ask the council to firmly
consider committing time and

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reconciliation and solidarity building
activities as soon as possible between

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the county council members and the
executive branch and they've offered

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technical assistance and training to
this end in conjunction with with the

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county's office of diversity equity and
inclusion and as such i think that we as

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a council need to take their
recommendations and observations

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seriously and i would like to make a
motion that we take them up on their

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offer to
engage in solidarity building activities

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and reconciliation building activities
i.e training with them

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to
better understand our role with

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furthering diversity equity and
inclusion in st louis county

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there's a motion is there a second

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say a second
motion dies for lack of a second wait i

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think that um let me just say this uh
councilwoman clancy and this is

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something that uh i had brought before
um and i'm sorry before this body but uh

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but i did ask and this was on the state
level for the human relation of human

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rights commission to come in there was a
cost associated with that and at the

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time it was determined that we could not
afford that but i had i had already made

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um forays into doing exactly what you're
talking about now now perhaps this one

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is different because it does not um not
oh okay i want to get my double meal

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like ma'am can you hear me
councilwoman webb

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she's muted now
okay thank you um so i have uh and i did

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that
long before this incident happened um

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with dr khan and again perhaps with the
um um with the no cost uh with uh

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whoever this is that you're talking
about maybe we can make that happen but

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i want you to know that that was not
lost on me and it did not take this

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particular uh incident to to let me know
that we needed some uh some assistance

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in that area so i do appreciate that so
we'll look into that either

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anyway the emotion failed but i think
that there are some ways that we can

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perhaps uh work with the council members
on other ways

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so thank you
thank you

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and and i will add i will forward this
letter so that it is entered into the

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record to share the perspective of our
human relations commission on this

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matter thank you
thank you and uh also um

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i want to know that did all the council
members receive anything from dr khan

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yes i saw an email that he sent to you
madam chair and it was to be copied it

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was to be sent to every member i
requested that i ask him to do that as a

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minimum of what he should be doing so
thank you so much councilman fitch

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thank you madam chair um since we voted
the body voted and closed a session it

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becomes a public record this is
something we want to share councilman

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trachus's motion
uh that passed at this point so the

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public knows
what we voted on

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sure is that appropriate at this
particular time you want to do you want

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to remake your motion i would like to
make sure the county councilor confirms

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that it's um
appropriate to do so i have no problem

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if they confirm that

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one moment

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i do believe that the county executive
made reference to a report that was made

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and did and did i miss that or am i misc
am i confusing that with something else

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so if he did indicate that there was a
um

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a report made um maybe we can uh
that'll help them the lawyers over there

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yeah i believe there was a report made
in a reprimand given so there was there

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was talk in public it was it was
discussed in a public public meeting

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public forum

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madam chair
yes councilwoman webb i'm sorry i'm

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muting on too too many mutes but i just
want a clarification and i know i missed

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my opportunity but i wanted
clarification from councilwoman clancy

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was that going to be
training diversity training specifically

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for council members of all
all of the st louis

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uh county government
um

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if i'm allowed to answer madam chair
councilwoman clancy yes um the letter

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was directed to the county executive and
the county council

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um so i think well to the county
executive chairwoman days and council

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members so i think um what they were
envisioning could be inclusive of

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everyone who the letter was directed to
i think that there's a bigger picture

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thing that they're suggesting here that
there's a lot of conflict internal

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conflict between the council and the
county executive one of the ways that

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manifest was what we saw at the july 27
meeting and the ensuing events after

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that meeting and so i think i think that
maybe they're envisioning something

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that's inclusive of a lot of different
people

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thank you councilwoman clancy and madam
chair

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uh yes as you said that there you're
as a council we're not

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ignoring that recommendation but there
are going to be some things in the work

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correct
i i believe that we do have a department

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i'm not sure what they're doing
diversity equity inclusion as

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councilwoman clancy mentioned i'm not
sure what uh you know what they have

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done or plan to do in terms of the
entire county uh looking at that

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situation i think that's sorely needed
for all of us uh but again i that i

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don't supervise that person i'm not sure
who does and i don't know what the plans

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are for that department but i think that
clearly that's something that if we're

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interested in
for the county

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as a whole or for the council
uh at minimum that that is something

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that i think is clearly doable and i
think that we need to reach out to that

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person and see if that's if that's um if
that's allowable yes

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if they even have the capacity to do
that i don't know i don't know what they

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do i'm sorry i just don't know
councilwoman clancy

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yes um if that's the case then can i
revise my motion to make a motion to

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actually turn this into an action that
we follow up on i'd like to make a

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motion then that we reach out to
chairwoman aristi of the human relations

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commission and mr murdock who is the
officer of diversity equity and

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inclusion to have a conversation with
them about what this kind of training

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might look like
so you want that for the council to do

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that yes i would like to make that
that's your motion is there a second to

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that motion second
all in favor please say i

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i
i

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i
post no

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motion passes thank you thank you
we're waiting for our attorneys

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yes i'm sorry thank you madam chair
there's no default requirement that this

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vote in closed session be made open
there is a requirement that any final

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decision about hiring firing promoting
or disciplining be made public within 72

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hours but there's not i'm not
understanding you

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yeah can you take that down just for a
minute so we can hear you understand you

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rather there's not a requirement a
default requirement that the closed

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session vote be made public if it were a
final decision under subsection 3 of

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61021 that would need to be made public
within 72 hours but there's not a

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requirement that this boat be made
public

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so can he make the motion or not in open
session

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i guess the real issue is is there a
prohibition to stating what the vote the

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motion was and the vote
or not

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sorry madam chair something that
occurred in closed session should remain

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closed and confidential so the answer is
no all right thank you

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councilman fitch
madam chair um

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i think we we heard enough which was
very little in the closed session about

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this
however uh i would uh since we don't

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know what's going to happen as a result
of councilman trachus's motion and

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closed session
um

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i do believe that the county executives
made it very clear

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we've asked him multiple times now that
he has no intention of releasing

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anything out of that personnel matter
other than what he wanted to release is

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that dr khan was reprimanded for giving
the middle finger to residents and

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constituents
which is all he wanted to release i i

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still is as i said that night scratch my
head how you can release part of it but

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not the rest so i would like to make a
motion that uh according to pursuant to

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chapter 114 st louis county revised
ordinances

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section one which states the record
shall be closed and let's determine

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otherwise by a relevant government body
i believe that we are the relevant

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government body so i make a motion that
we allow that and request

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order that record to be opened per our
uh

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ability to do that under those
ordinances

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second is
it has been moved in second is a

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discussion
councilman trachus madam chair um

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with all due respect councilman fitch's
interpretation of the ordinance is

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completely wrong
there is no authority on this council to

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open that record
um

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the proper procedure
is to do as

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suggested and that is request a
in-camera inspection

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by council members of the report of the
administration's investigation

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um
let the county executive answer that

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request one way or the other
if he chooses not to provide that access

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then we move forward in whatever way is
appropriate on the other hand if he does

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then i think it's incumbent on this body
to

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take advantage of that limited access
for inspection purposes review the

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report and the evidence it summarizes
and then make a decision based on the

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totality of the circumstances and access
to all of the information

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and evidence one way or the other with
respect to whether or not the discipline

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metered out to doctor dr khan was
appropriate i think it would be remiss

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to do anything prior to at least
making that request madam chair of

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limited access to the report for
inspection purposes thank you councilman

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fitch
madam chair i think we heard the county

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councilor tell us that
it's her opinion

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that we are not the relevant government
body to open this record that only the

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county executive he himself
has that authority to do that that one

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person is allowed to do that
according to the research that i've had

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done on this from sunshine law experts
it does not describe in the sunshine law

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who the relevant government body is we
are clearly the relevant government body

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for st louis county
um and i think that we can and it's her

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opinion miss orbit's opinion
that we have no authority to do that and

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of course
if we decide as a council to vote to

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open that record
it will probably be litigated would be

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my guest because
i would assume that the media would

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believe that we are the relevant
government body they will make a

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sunshine request for this record it'll
be denied and then it's going to have to

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be litigated to get to the an answer
from a court i really wish i could

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believe that the county executive would
allow us to see this in camera but i

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think he's made it very clear that he's
not so

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um i'm i made the motion and i think
councilman carter seconded it

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uh further discussion councilman tracus
madam chair what is the downside to

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writing a letter making the request and
having it either granted or denied at

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best it would take a week to complete
that entire process probably half that

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time
and and

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there's a chance that we avoid
litigation as a result of it so

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there is no downside here to making the
request

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we can always choose to litigate if in
fact it's denied

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right um thank you anyone else
councilman fitch um let me let me just

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see if we can kind of get ourselves out
of this because i'm clearly planning to

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do as was instructed in the uh closed
session and i think if we do that we can

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move forward either way or not this is
just not the end of this we can make we

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can move this in steps if we could we
make make the uh request that was done

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in in closed session we do that and then
we can move forward with whatever else

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we may need to do to access the
information that we clearly think that

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we deserve
can uh councilman fitch

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madam chair i respect your um
thoughts on this and as a result of that

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i would draw my motion
but what i would like to also put in an

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ad
that

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we give the county executive a deadline
of when to respond to the letter that

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you're going to write asking for this
inspection of the written report that

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was prepared
on this whole thing because for me and i

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think many of us it's not about what
discipline dr khan received it was about

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the investigation and what parts that it
showed

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that they could prove or disprove or any
of the evidence how they did the

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investigation
if he just comes to us and says hey

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we did an investigation we wrote a
report we're not giving it to you we

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gave him a reprimand verbally for giving
the middle finger to residents that's

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nothing more than we knew coming into
this today

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so it has to be
um exactly what councilman trait has

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made the motion for uh that we are
allowed to see

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the uh in-camera inspection of the
record itself

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uh and anything short of that i think i
come back to my motion that i made and i

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just withdrew
thank you and i will make sure that the

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deadline is included in that all right
councilman deadline madam chair thank

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you i agree with the deadline i do think
though it's axiomatic that um

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the punishment
is appropriate meaning that

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what does the report contain and does
the punishment

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meet the crime
is that the crime

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reasonably reflect
what that report contains in terms of

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all the evidence or not so it is
important that we find out what's in

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that report if we can if we can't then i
think we can resort to litigation if we

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have to thank you
thank you so

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uh you went through your motion and and
yes your second is withdrawn as well

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thank you yeah and uh did we decide on a
date

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we're giving them a week ten days what
are we doing do you have a suggestion

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councilman fitch
i would let uh councilman tracus make

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that suggestion since it was his motion
but i would add i have a question for

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legal before councilman tracus answers
is if the county executive says i'm not

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giving you anything more than i've
already given you in the public meeting

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and i heard you know about litigation
will the county counselor's office

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support this council in litigation
if we

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make a motion to open this record and
they deny it

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i'd like to hear their thoughts on that
i think i know the answer that they're

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going to say they can't tell us an open
open meeting but i think i know the

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answer but we'll let them answer let's
just let's just give them a chance

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councilman fitch okay

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it is the policy of the office not to
give advice during an open meeting but

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we'd be happy to provide you a response
thank you and when can we expect a

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response as soon as possible

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we'll give you a couple of days thank
you

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any further discussion on that i think
councilman fitch thought i should just

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suggest a deadline for the county
executive to respond yes i'm sure um

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i don't know when your letter is going
to be ready to send so i would suggest

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that um a week from today is is more
than enough time

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that way if it goes out tomorrow or the
next day there's still plenty of time

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got it thank you councilman fitch just
one additional item i think we were

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going to discuss whether or not we
wanted to confirm or make a

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recommendation or to confirm
dr khan's

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full appointment as the director of the
department of public health

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ma'am chair do you think we're in a
position to have that discussion today

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or do you want to wait till we see what
happens as a result of this uh request

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for the investigation i mean we have
waited this long i would really like to

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see what it is that that has to be said
along this issue and then we will make a

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decision at that so uh at the meeting
tonight i will continue to hold that

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appointment thank you manager all right
anything else

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motion to adjourn

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see you in about half an hour thank you

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you