[2:51] yes ma'am thank you
[2:54] we're calling the st louis county
council uh committee of the hole to
[2:57] order october 5 2021 it is now 1pm
we are to discuss the appointment
[3:03] including personnel matters of dr faisal
khan as director of department of public
[3:09] health
please call the romance clerk
[3:12] council member days here council member
dunaway
[3:16] council member fitch here
council member webb
[3:20] council member clancy
here
[3:23] council member tracus frozen
councilmember harding president
[3:27] madam chair you have a quorum thank you
very much as i mentioned the purpose
[3:31] before
uh i don't really have any um any
[3:34] introductory remarks right now uh any
comments from the
[3:38] council before i move to go into
executive session
[3:43] no comments all right uh i would i i can
get a motion to go into executive
[3:48] session please oh moved
uh pursuant to rsmo
[3:54] 610.021 for n1 for n3 and paren 13 and
four point zero two zero corinne one
[4:01] three and thirteen st louis county
revised ordinances uh is there a second
[4:06] to that motion
all in favor please say aye
[4:10] aye those opposed no
madam chair we need a roll call i'm
[4:14] sorry i'm sorry i forgot roll call
please on the motion to go in a closed
[4:18] session council member days aye
councilmember dunaway
[4:22] council member fitch hi
councilmember webb council member clancy
[4:27] hi hi
[4:30] i'm sorry madam chair the record will
reflect that council member webb has
[4:33] joined the meeting and voted i
council member trachus hi
[4:38] councilmember harder hi
madam chair on the motion to go into
[4:42] closed session there are six eyes and
one absent thank you very much motion
[4:46] passes uh kevin would you make the
necessary preparations and those who are
[4:50] uh not part of this
uh or escort it out thank you
[4:55] uh kevin are we to remain on this link
or is there a different link
[5:01] yes ma'am you can stay on that link
we're gonna switch over to the
[5:04] recordings so it'll be just a minute
here
[5:24] everything
[7:09] so
[7:39] members of the public the council will
be returning to open session here in
[7:43] just a moment
thank you
[8:49] members of the public the chair is
taking her seat and the open session
[8:54] in just a moment
you're good
[9:03] man i'm sure
[9:06] sorry there you go we have returned to
the open session uh are there any other
[9:11] comments from the council members yes
madam chair
[9:14] yes
councilwoman clancy
[9:18] yes um
i would like to enter into the record a
[9:21] letter that we each received along with
the county executive from the st louis
[9:25] county human relations commission on
august 13
[9:29] 2021.
in that letter
[9:32] they wrote to us
um
[9:36] a couple of things but one there were a
couple comments i wanted to highlight
[9:41] they were speaking about the the now
infamous july 27th meeting and they
[9:45] write we were collectively horrified at
the nasty words of so many residents who
[9:49] spoke then during public comments and
disappointed that those who offered
[9:53] misinformation in venom this week were
not challenged it must have been
[9:57] difficult for you to hear as well
in this letter they also make a few
[10:00] recommendations
as the human relations commission
[10:05] via ordinance they um are empowered to
act in an advisory capacity to foster
[10:10] mutual self-respect and to further
amicable relations among the various
[10:14] segments of the population which
together compromise the county and one
[10:18] of their recommendations and advisory
activities that they have said are that
[10:24] they ask the council to firmly
consider committing time and
[10:27] reconciliation and solidarity building
activities as soon as possible between
[10:31] the county council members and the
executive branch and they've offered
[10:35] technical assistance and training to
this end in conjunction with with the
[10:38] county's office of diversity equity and
inclusion and as such i think that we as
[10:43] a council need to take their
recommendations and observations
[10:46] seriously and i would like to make a
motion that we take them up on their
[10:49] offer to
engage in solidarity building activities
[10:53] and reconciliation building activities
i.e training with them
[10:58] to
better understand our role with
[11:00] furthering diversity equity and
inclusion in st louis county
[11:05] there's a motion is there a second
[11:09] say a second
motion dies for lack of a second wait i
[11:14] think that um let me just say this uh
councilwoman clancy and this is
[11:18] something that uh i had brought before
um and i'm sorry before this body but uh
[11:24] but i did ask and this was on the state
level for the human relation of human
[11:28] rights commission to come in there was a
cost associated with that and at the
[11:32] time it was determined that we could not
afford that but i had i had already made
[11:37] um forays into doing exactly what you're
talking about now now perhaps this one
[11:41] is different because it does not um not
oh okay i want to get my double meal
[11:46] like ma'am can you hear me
councilwoman webb
[11:51] she's muted now
okay thank you um so i have uh and i did
[11:56] that
long before this incident happened um
[11:59] with dr khan and again perhaps with the
um um with the no cost uh with uh
[12:05] whoever this is that you're talking
about maybe we can make that happen but
[12:09] i want you to know that that was not
lost on me and it did not take this
[12:12] particular uh incident to to let me know
that we needed some uh some assistance
[12:17] in that area so i do appreciate that so
we'll look into that either
[12:22] anyway the emotion failed but i think
that there are some ways that we can
[12:25] perhaps uh work with the council members
on other ways
[12:28] so thank you
thank you
[12:31] and and i will add i will forward this
letter so that it is entered into the
[12:34] record to share the perspective of our
human relations commission on this
[12:37] matter thank you
thank you and uh also um
[12:43] i want to know that did all the council
members receive anything from dr khan
[12:48] yes i saw an email that he sent to you
madam chair and it was to be copied it
[12:52] was to be sent to every member i
requested that i ask him to do that as a
[12:57] minimum of what he should be doing so
thank you so much councilman fitch
[13:01] thank you madam chair um since we voted
the body voted and closed a session it
[13:06] becomes a public record this is
something we want to share councilman
[13:09] trachus's motion
uh that passed at this point so the
[13:12] public knows
what we voted on
[13:16] sure is that appropriate at this
particular time you want to do you want
[13:21] to remake your motion i would like to
make sure the county councilor confirms
[13:24] that it's um
appropriate to do so i have no problem
[13:28] if they confirm that
[13:33] one moment
[14:20] i do believe that the county executive
made reference to a report that was made
[14:25] and did and did i miss that or am i misc
am i confusing that with something else
[14:29] so if he did indicate that there was a
um
[14:32] a report made um maybe we can uh
that'll help them the lawyers over there
[14:41] yeah i believe there was a report made
in a reprimand given so there was there
[14:45] was talk in public it was it was
discussed in a public public meeting
[14:48] public forum
[14:53] madam chair
yes councilwoman webb i'm sorry i'm
[14:57] muting on too too many mutes but i just
want a clarification and i know i missed
[15:02] my opportunity but i wanted
clarification from councilwoman clancy
[15:06] was that going to be
training diversity training specifically
[15:11] for council members of all
all of the st louis
[15:15] uh county government
um
[15:19] if i'm allowed to answer madam chair
councilwoman clancy yes um the letter
[15:25] was directed to the county executive and
the county council
[15:29] um so i think well to the county
executive chairwoman days and council
[15:34] members so i think um what they were
envisioning could be inclusive of
[15:37] everyone who the letter was directed to
i think that there's a bigger picture
[15:41] thing that they're suggesting here that
there's a lot of conflict internal
[15:44] conflict between the council and the
county executive one of the ways that
[15:48] manifest was what we saw at the july 27
meeting and the ensuing events after
[15:53] that meeting and so i think i think that
maybe they're envisioning something
[15:56] that's inclusive of a lot of different
people
[16:03] thank you councilwoman clancy and madam
chair
[16:07] uh yes as you said that there you're
as a council we're not
[16:13] ignoring that recommendation but there
are going to be some things in the work
[16:17] correct
i i believe that we do have a department
[16:20] i'm not sure what they're doing
diversity equity inclusion as
[16:24] councilwoman clancy mentioned i'm not
sure what uh you know what they have
[16:28] done or plan to do in terms of the
entire county uh looking at that
[16:33] situation i think that's sorely needed
for all of us uh but again i that i
[16:38] don't supervise that person i'm not sure
who does and i don't know what the plans
[16:42] are for that department but i think that
clearly that's something that if we're
[16:45] interested in
for the county
[16:48] as a whole or for the council
uh at minimum that that is something
[16:52] that i think is clearly doable and i
think that we need to reach out to that
[16:56] person and see if that's if that's um if
that's allowable yes
[17:00] if they even have the capacity to do
that i don't know i don't know what they
[17:03] do i'm sorry i just don't know
councilwoman clancy
[17:07] yes um if that's the case then can i
revise my motion to make a motion to
[17:11] actually turn this into an action that
we follow up on i'd like to make a
[17:14] motion then that we reach out to
chairwoman aristi of the human relations
[17:19] commission and mr murdock who is the
officer of diversity equity and
[17:23] inclusion to have a conversation with
them about what this kind of training
[17:26] might look like
so you want that for the council to do
[17:30] that yes i would like to make that
that's your motion is there a second to
[17:34] that motion second
all in favor please say i
[17:39] i
i
[17:44] i
post no
[17:47] motion passes thank you thank you
we're waiting for our attorneys
[17:52] yes i'm sorry thank you madam chair
there's no default requirement that this
[17:57] vote in closed session be made open
there is a requirement that any final
[18:00] decision about hiring firing promoting
or disciplining be made public within 72
[18:05] hours but there's not i'm not
understanding you
[18:08] yeah can you take that down just for a
minute so we can hear you understand you
[18:11] rather there's not a requirement a
default requirement that the closed
[18:14] session vote be made public if it were a
final decision under subsection 3 of
[18:20] 61021 that would need to be made public
within 72 hours but there's not a
[18:24] requirement that this boat be made
public
[18:27] so can he make the motion or not in open
session
[18:37] i guess the real issue is is there a
prohibition to stating what the vote the
[18:42] motion was and the vote
or not
[18:49] sorry madam chair something that
occurred in closed session should remain
[18:52] closed and confidential so the answer is
no all right thank you
[18:59] councilman fitch
madam chair um
[19:03] i think we we heard enough which was
very little in the closed session about
[19:07] this
however uh i would uh since we don't
[19:11] know what's going to happen as a result
of councilman trachus's motion and
[19:14] closed session
um
[19:17] i do believe that the county executives
made it very clear
[19:20] we've asked him multiple times now that
he has no intention of releasing
[19:24] anything out of that personnel matter
other than what he wanted to release is
[19:28] that dr khan was reprimanded for giving
the middle finger to residents and
[19:33] constituents
which is all he wanted to release i i
[19:36] still is as i said that night scratch my
head how you can release part of it but
[19:41] not the rest so i would like to make a
motion that uh according to pursuant to
[19:47] chapter 114 st louis county revised
ordinances
[19:50] section one which states the record
shall be closed and let's determine
[19:54] otherwise by a relevant government body
i believe that we are the relevant
[19:58] government body so i make a motion that
we allow that and request
[20:04] order that record to be opened per our
uh
[20:09] ability to do that under those
ordinances
[20:12] second is
it has been moved in second is a
[20:16] discussion
councilman trachus madam chair um
[20:22] with all due respect councilman fitch's
interpretation of the ordinance is
[20:25] completely wrong
there is no authority on this council to
[20:30] open that record
um
[20:33] the proper procedure
is to do as
[20:37] suggested and that is request a
in-camera inspection
[20:41] by council members of the report of the
administration's investigation
[20:47] um
let the county executive answer that
[20:51] request one way or the other
if he chooses not to provide that access
[20:56] then we move forward in whatever way is
appropriate on the other hand if he does
[21:01] then i think it's incumbent on this body
to
[21:06] take advantage of that limited access
for inspection purposes review the
[21:11] report and the evidence it summarizes
and then make a decision based on the
[21:16] totality of the circumstances and access
to all of the information
[21:20] and evidence one way or the other with
respect to whether or not the discipline
[21:26] metered out to doctor dr khan was
appropriate i think it would be remiss
[21:30] to do anything prior to at least
making that request madam chair of
[21:35] limited access to the report for
inspection purposes thank you councilman
[21:40] fitch
madam chair i think we heard the county
[21:42] councilor tell us that
it's her opinion
[21:46] that we are not the relevant government
body to open this record that only the
[21:49] county executive he himself
has that authority to do that that one
[21:53] person is allowed to do that
according to the research that i've had
[21:57] done on this from sunshine law experts
it does not describe in the sunshine law
[22:03] who the relevant government body is we
are clearly the relevant government body
[22:07] for st louis county
um and i think that we can and it's her
[22:11] opinion miss orbit's opinion
that we have no authority to do that and
[22:15] of course
if we decide as a council to vote to
[22:18] open that record
it will probably be litigated would be
[22:21] my guest because
i would assume that the media would
[22:25] believe that we are the relevant
government body they will make a
[22:28] sunshine request for this record it'll
be denied and then it's going to have to
[22:32] be litigated to get to the an answer
from a court i really wish i could
[22:36] believe that the county executive would
allow us to see this in camera but i
[22:40] think he's made it very clear that he's
not so
[22:42] um i'm i made the motion and i think
councilman carter seconded it
[22:47] uh further discussion councilman tracus
madam chair what is the downside to
[22:52] writing a letter making the request and
having it either granted or denied at
[22:58] best it would take a week to complete
that entire process probably half that
[23:02] time
and and
[23:04] there's a chance that we avoid
litigation as a result of it so
[23:09] there is no downside here to making the
request
[23:12] we can always choose to litigate if in
fact it's denied
[23:16] right um thank you anyone else
councilman fitch um let me let me just
[23:22] see if we can kind of get ourselves out
of this because i'm clearly planning to
[23:25] do as was instructed in the uh closed
session and i think if we do that we can
[23:31] move forward either way or not this is
just not the end of this we can make we
[23:36] can move this in steps if we could we
make make the uh request that was done
[23:41] in in closed session we do that and then
we can move forward with whatever else
[23:46] we may need to do to access the
information that we clearly think that
[23:50] we deserve
can uh councilman fitch
[23:54] madam chair i respect your um
thoughts on this and as a result of that
[23:58] i would draw my motion
but what i would like to also put in an
[24:03] ad
that
[24:05] we give the county executive a deadline
of when to respond to the letter that
[24:09] you're going to write asking for this
inspection of the written report that
[24:13] was prepared
on this whole thing because for me and i
[24:17] think many of us it's not about what
discipline dr khan received it was about
[24:22] the investigation and what parts that it
showed
[24:26] that they could prove or disprove or any
of the evidence how they did the
[24:30] investigation
if he just comes to us and says hey
[24:34] we did an investigation we wrote a
report we're not giving it to you we
[24:37] gave him a reprimand verbally for giving
the middle finger to residents that's
[24:40] nothing more than we knew coming into
this today
[24:43] so it has to be
um exactly what councilman trait has
[24:47] made the motion for uh that we are
allowed to see
[24:50] the uh in-camera inspection of the
record itself
[24:55] uh and anything short of that i think i
come back to my motion that i made and i
[24:59] just withdrew
thank you and i will make sure that the
[25:02] deadline is included in that all right
councilman deadline madam chair thank
[25:06] you i agree with the deadline i do think
though it's axiomatic that um
[25:11] the punishment
is appropriate meaning that
[25:16] what does the report contain and does
the punishment
[25:20] meet the crime
is that the crime
[25:24] reasonably reflect
what that report contains in terms of
[25:28] all the evidence or not so it is
important that we find out what's in
[25:31] that report if we can if we can't then i
think we can resort to litigation if we
[25:35] have to thank you
thank you so
[25:38] uh you went through your motion and and
yes your second is withdrawn as well
[25:41] thank you yeah and uh did we decide on a
date
[25:45] we're giving them a week ten days what
are we doing do you have a suggestion
[25:49] councilman fitch
i would let uh councilman tracus make
[25:52] that suggestion since it was his motion
but i would add i have a question for
[25:55] legal before councilman tracus answers
is if the county executive says i'm not
[26:00] giving you anything more than i've
already given you in the public meeting
[26:04] and i heard you know about litigation
will the county counselor's office
[26:08] support this council in litigation
if we
[26:12] make a motion to open this record and
they deny it
[26:15] i'd like to hear their thoughts on that
i think i know the answer that they're
[26:18] going to say they can't tell us an open
open meeting but i think i know the
[26:21] answer but we'll let them answer let's
just let's just give them a chance
[26:24] councilman fitch okay
[26:29] it is the policy of the office not to
give advice during an open meeting but
[26:32] we'd be happy to provide you a response
thank you and when can we expect a
[26:36] response as soon as possible
[26:41] we'll give you a couple of days thank
you
[26:44] any further discussion on that i think
councilman fitch thought i should just
[26:48] suggest a deadline for the county
executive to respond yes i'm sure um
[26:53] i don't know when your letter is going
to be ready to send so i would suggest
[26:56] that um a week from today is is more
than enough time
[27:01] that way if it goes out tomorrow or the
next day there's still plenty of time
[27:05] got it thank you councilman fitch just
one additional item i think we were
[27:09] going to discuss whether or not we
wanted to confirm or make a
[27:12] recommendation or to confirm
dr khan's
[27:17] full appointment as the director of the
department of public health
[27:20] ma'am chair do you think we're in a
position to have that discussion today
[27:23] or do you want to wait till we see what
happens as a result of this uh request
[27:27] for the investigation i mean we have
waited this long i would really like to
[27:30] see what it is that that has to be said
along this issue and then we will make a
[27:34] decision at that so uh at the meeting
tonight i will continue to hold that
[27:39] appointment thank you manager all right
anything else
[27:44] motion to adjourn
[27:51] see you in about half an hour thank you
[28:17] you