1 00:00:19,719 --> 00:00:21,719 ? ? ? 2 00:00:34,734 --> 00:00:36,734 ? ? ? 3 00:00:51,170 --> 00:00:53,170 ? ? ? 4 00:01:06,166 --> 00:01:08,166 ? ? ? 5 00:01:21,714 --> 00:01:23,714 ? ? ? 6 00:01:36,596 --> 00:01:38,596 ? ? ? 7 00:01:54,280 --> 00:01:56,280 ? ? ? 8 00:02:09,429 --> 00:02:11,429 ? ? ? 9 00:02:24,377 --> 00:02:26,377 ? ? ? 10 00:02:39,192 --> 00:02:41,192 ? ? ? 11 00:02:54,207 --> 00:02:56,207 ? ? ? 12 00:03:09,288 --> 00:03:11,288 ? ? ? 13 00:03:24,437 --> 00:03:26,437 ? ? ? 14 00:03:39,251 --> 00:03:41,251 ? ? ? 15 00:03:54,267 --> 00:03:56,267 ? ? ? 16 00:04:09,415 --> 00:04:11,415 ? ? ? 17 00:04:24,497 --> 00:04:26,497 ? ? ? 18 00:04:39,245 --> 00:04:46,445 ? >> cam make chair Jones Thank you for it isn't. I think we 19 00:05:00,999 --> 00:05:05,137 have just about everybody here, everyone here, wonderful. I want to welcome 20 00:05:05,137 --> 00:05:09,409 everyone to the September Library board meeting. know we have a few guests here today, 21 00:05:09,409 --> 00:05:17,830 which is exciting. >> We are the governing board for the library. The library 22 00:05:17,830 --> 00:05:22,288 has its own levee. I don't know. Folks know that. So we will be primarily discussing 23 00:05:22,288 --> 00:05:28,627 the library budget today. We do have a couple of action items before us today. mostly 24 00:05:28,627 --> 00:05:33,699 going to hear the mayor's proposed library budget which will presented to us by 25 00:05:33,699 --> 00:05:38,370 Director Hartman. We're not making any any decisions today. We're here to listen to 26 00:05:38,370 --> 00:05:43,109 the budget which will have important information on us to help us make choices about the 27 00:05:43,109 --> 00:05:47,246 budget prior to our maximum Levy vote, which is coming up on September 23rd and final 28 00:05:47,246 --> 00:05:54,653 budget in December. I do want to recognize that the primary item that will be discussing 29 00:05:54,653 --> 00:05:57,990 today in the library budget presentation is going to be the Dayton Library. We'll be 30 00:05:57,990 --> 00:06:02,728 dedicating a lot of our time to that. There will not be a public hearing today on the 31 00:06:02,728 --> 00:06:10,402 Dayton Library. We do have that public hearing item on different action. before that. 32 00:06:10,402 --> 00:06:17,217 But there will be discussion led by Councilmember Johnson on September 24th at 06:00PM 33 00:06:17,217 --> 00:06:21,821 at Central State people. Every 302, said like to welcome. You know, folks to come to that. 34 00:06:21,821 --> 00:06:28,940 We also do have our public hearing, which is the truth and taxation hearing prior to 35 00:06:28,940 --> 00:06:33,433 the budget. Final adoption later this year and so I just wanted to kind of make sure 36 00:06:33,433 --> 00:06:39,639 it's clear kind of what we're going to be discussing here today. And we also do have, in 37 00:06:39,639 --> 00:06:42,975 addition to the INS will fly the entire library budget that we want to get through. So I 38 00:06:42,975 --> 00:06:48,381 do anticipate we will be going right up to 2 o'clock pretty close to that. You know, so 39 00:06:48,381 --> 00:06:54,520 folks need to take a break. Go ahead and do that. I will do my best to keep moving along 40 00:06:54,520 --> 00:06:58,591 so we can get through everything. So thank you again, everyone for being here 41 00:06:58,591 --> 00:07:06,991 with I will turn it actually back over to Caleb Item. Number minute. 26 stash. 26 42 00:07:07,801 --> 00:07:13,201 approving the minutes of the August 2026. >> Library board meeting. 43 00:07:13,406 --> 00:07:19,678 >> All right. So we have a library board minutes before us. I will take a motion from 44 00:07:19,678 --> 00:07:23,883 Councilmember Coleman to approve. Is there any discussion? All in favor say 45 00:07:23,883 --> 00:07:32,283 Aye, aye. All those opposed. >> 7 in favor. None opposed. The minutes are approved. Item 46 00:07:33,893 --> 00:07:40,493 number 2 resolution public in 26, dash 2, 4, 3, accepting a gift of 309,000 from the 47 00:07:42,569 --> 00:07:48,774 friends of Saint Paul Public Library and amending the library's 2026. financing and 48 00:07:48,774 --> 00:07:55,974 spending plans. >> Great really excited to accept this gift. This is also 49 00:07:57,784 --> 00:08:03,322 a public hearing on this item. anyone is here to speak on this item, please come up. You 50 00:08:03,322 --> 00:08:09,128 have 2 minutes and please state your name and where you're coming from. A few here 51 00:08:09,128 --> 00:08:19,128 to talk about item number 2. It doesn't look like we have anyone. So I will take motion 52 00:08:19,205 --> 00:08:22,809 from Councilmember Kim to close the public hearing and approve item on favor. Say 53 00:08:22,809 --> 00:08:32,809 Aye. of the post. 7, Notable So you That item is item. Is it that okay item number 3 54 00:08:43,296 --> 00:08:50,236 staff report 26 dash one. 76. >> And the 27, I think proposing wonderful. So now 55 00:08:50,236 --> 00:08:55,441 we're at the presentation of the budget. I will turn it over to Director Hartman. 56 00:08:55,441 --> 00:08:59,445 Thank you for being here. >> Thank you, chair. Just thanks, everybody for being 57 00:08:59,445 --> 00:09:04,716 here. My name is Ryan Hartman. I'm the library director in the city of Saint Paul. And 58 00:09:04,716 --> 00:09:08,588 I'm so grateful to leave this work in the city and especially grateful to my 59 00:09:08,588 --> 00:09:14,327 staff who such good work and give me permission to lead into our residents who support 60 00:09:14,327 --> 00:09:20,133 library and who use them every day. We are not 14 separate library is we are one system 61 00:09:20,133 --> 00:09:23,936 working together to serve the city of Saint Paul. Presenting this budget today is very 62 00:09:23,936 --> 00:09:30,609 painful. No library director ever wants to be in a situation where we where are 63 00:09:30,609 --> 00:09:37,283 talking about closing a library are reducing hours, but the city and therefore the 64 00:09:37,283 --> 00:09:42,288 library is in a difficult budget situation. The library cannot continue to deliver the 65 00:09:42,288 --> 00:09:50,363 same amount of services with a smaller budget or frankly, even with a flat budget. 66 00:09:50,363 --> 00:09:55,501 Libraries are one of the best things this country invented. And it is both gift and a huge 67 00:09:55,501 --> 00:10:02,701 challenge. That across the country, public libraries are overwhelmingly funded by local 68 00:10:03,509 --> 00:10:08,714 jurisdictions, cities and counties. I am passionate about libraries and I will 69 00:10:08,714 --> 00:10:13,852 keep fighting for libraries. Just like all of us in this room and I will fight for 2 70 00:10:13,852 --> 00:10:20,926 things. But the library can't do more with less. And that in addition to community members 71 00:10:20,926 --> 00:10:24,864 supporting libraries, we also want community members to continue to use library us. So 72 00:10:24,864 --> 00:10:34,464 let's get started. So as you heard Councilmember Joe say it's task today to present you 73 00:10:37,476 --> 00:10:41,481 with the mayor's proposed budget is not my task to convince you to close the 74 00:10:41,481 --> 00:10:46,285 dance. librarian or convince you to not close at it i for me to demonstrate how that is 75 00:10:46,285 --> 00:10:53,492 showing up in the mayor's proposed budget. The factors, budget savings that go into 76 00:10:53,492 --> 00:11:00,366 this and the factors that led to her recommending this in her budget. In the 2027 77 00:11:00,366 --> 00:11:05,505 budget. There is the proposed closure of the Dayton Library included in that closure 78 00:11:05,505 --> 00:11:12,711 amount is the lease with Metropolitan State University. You'll see a number of 79 00:11:12,711 --> 00:11:19,311 $148,274 there. The city budgets 131,700. The library would absorb any remainder and 80 00:11:22,588 --> 00:11:30,388 any annual increase as in addition, there is a technology savings. If the 81 00:11:31,597 --> 00:11:34,667 library work clothes, we wouldn't spend library money on technology. The same thing 82 00:11:34,667 --> 00:11:41,700 is true of library materials costs. And there is also permanent personnel savings. 83 00:11:41,700 --> 00:11:48,347 So just to be clear with this proposed item, no library staff member will lose their 84 00:11:48,347 --> 00:11:52,351 employment, but we are losing 1.3 fte. >> Through attrition, which 85 00:11:52,351 --> 00:12:00,559 means holding vacancy. Us and that we have right now. This budget proposal reduces 1.3 86 00:12:00,559 --> 00:12:08,359 fte as a permanent reduction and also proposes repurposing 4.1 Ft has positions become 87 00:12:08,434 --> 00:12:15,340 vacant through 2027 to permanently fund the remainder of the library safety 88 00:12:15,400 --> 00:12:19,512 specialist positions, some of which as you'll see from my slides later on only have one 89 00:12:19,512 --> 00:12:26,112 time funding through 2027. >> Maintaining the Danes Bluff Library. We'll eliminate the 90 00:12:26,333 --> 00:12:31,872 plan for the ongoing funding of 4 of the 7 Library safety specialist. You'll see in this 91 00:12:31,872 --> 00:12:37,877 budget. They are wrapped together. They do not have to be. And that is the work that 92 00:12:37,877 --> 00:12:42,949 could be in front of you and the mayor. >> But to give you a little 93 00:12:42,949 --> 00:12:48,488 bit of an overview of Dean's it opened in 2004 has an innovative partnership with 94 00:12:48,488 --> 00:12:55,896 Metro State University. As I think most of us know, it is a public library within a local 95 00:12:55,896 --> 00:13:04,896 for us ppl at the time from 12 locations to 13. Our holiday closures differ. At that 96 00:13:06,707 --> 00:13:10,977 location that are other locations due to Metro State holiday and whether closing 97 00:13:10,977 --> 00:13:17,317 policies. It is a little over 6,600 square feet. It's a portion of the ground floor of 98 00:13:17,317 --> 00:13:23,123 Metro State Library and the Learning Lab building has 7 library employees is the 99 00:13:23,123 --> 00:13:28,461 equivalent of 5.4 Ft. It is one of 2 least library spaces in Saint Paul. Our second is 100 00:13:28,461 --> 00:13:36,300 the West 7th Library. The public Library has one small meeting room has a capacity of 101 00:13:36,300 --> 00:13:41,875 10 people and has 14 computers. All Saint Paul residents can get a community 102 00:13:41,875 --> 00:13:45,746 borrowing card from Metro State for non-students. That allows access to check out 103 00:13:45,746 --> 00:13:52,953 materials that are metro states access computers and members of the public also can 104 00:13:52,953 --> 00:13:59,893 print and use photocopying get reference and research news, Publix study tables and 105 00:13:59,893 --> 00:14:08,702 seating in the larger Metro State Library. Just want to clarify that. I want to make 106 00:14:08,702 --> 00:14:12,706 sure that, you know that during the pandemic we had a partnership with the Ramsey 107 00:14:12,706 --> 00:14:17,440 County Workforce Solutions at our day in Slough Library. So he temporarily re commissioned 108 00:14:17,440 --> 00:14:24,500 this location as a career lab we had had. This was actually the first base in the state of 109 00:14:24,500 --> 00:14:27,654 Minnesota that was during in-person computer help during the pandemic. We opened in the 110 00:14:27,654 --> 00:14:32,859 summer of 2020. We had service level 6 days of the week through walk-in appointment 111 00:14:32,859 --> 00:14:39,198 based services. There is a significant investment of county cares dollars to 112 00:14:39,198 --> 00:14:42,469 support the staffing and marketing. This was library staff that were repurposed 113 00:14:42,469 --> 00:14:49,809 into these positions. There is an investment of over $500,000 and this was a significant 114 00:14:49,809 --> 00:14:54,147 contribution to the city's overall bottom line and helped avoid library, layoffs and 115 00:14:54,147 --> 00:15:01,947 city layoffs. Overall. Our library staff at Dayton's Bluff work really, really hard 116 00:15:05,758 --> 00:15:10,297 to engage the community in welcome the folks that are coming in. Up until this 117 00:15:10,297 --> 00:15:15,301 school year are mobile library, which is a separate system wide service. I had a 118 00:15:15,301 --> 00:15:21,375 regular visit to the Dayton Elementary. Dan entry is asked us not to return this year. 119 00:15:21,375 --> 00:15:25,645 Not because they don't like the service but because they're interested in focusing 120 00:15:25,645 --> 00:15:29,490 their services and their resources on their media center now that they have a 121 00:15:29,490 --> 00:15:35,722 media specialist in that building. So we were delivering regular service to 122 00:15:35,722 --> 00:15:41,128 kids in that school. And as one of our one of our best mobile library spots. Our 123 00:15:41,128 --> 00:15:44,798 community services team, which is a service team that works across the whole city, has an 124 00:15:44,798 --> 00:15:49,736 active and regular partnership with clues. And as a member of the Adult Literacy consortium 125 00:15:49,736 --> 00:15:56,209 delivering services and classes too. Folks who are learning U.S. in addition 126 00:15:56,209 --> 00:16:00,213 locally at our Dance Bluff Library, they do regular visits to do with gardens. A 127 00:16:00,213 --> 00:16:06,486 senior living up the street, regular partnership Metro State on a book club. Visits 128 00:16:06,486 --> 00:16:12,759 from in today's Bluff Wreck. Partnership with Urban Roots and the Seed Library. We'll 129 00:16:12,759 --> 00:16:20,990 have outreach presence at Fiesta. Latina and Rivoli. left Bash. I want to let you 130 00:16:20,990 --> 00:16:27,299 know that there are several locations. Relatively nearby Arlington Hills, George letter 131 00:16:27,374 --> 00:16:32,450 or Central Library and Sundry Library there. Also, as you can see, listed here, some 132 00:16:32,450 --> 00:16:39,845 mobile library stops in the area. Additional mobile library staff is coming soon 133 00:16:39,919 --> 00:16:43,523 on 7 for an active conversation with 2 different possible partners on 7th. And 134 00:16:43,523 --> 00:16:46,793 that's regardless of what happens in the future with Dayton's bluff. It's important 135 00:16:46,793 --> 00:16:55,668 for us to continue to. I connect with community members in the area. Yes, council 136 00:16:55,668 --> 00:17:01,680 president maker and then Councilmember. >> Thanks just just curious, 137 00:17:02,409 --> 00:17:07,547 director, you know, 1.9 miles away close to 2 miles away. Is this not? Very close? I'm 138 00:17:07,547 --> 00:17:10,217 wondering, especially when this library unique partnership created with Metro 139 00:17:10,217 --> 00:17:18,250 State was there standard or is there currently a standard as to how? How our library 140 00:17:18,250 --> 00:17:20,627 coverage should be geographically, how far any one resident should be. 141 00:17:20,627 --> 00:17:25,498 >> From a library. >> Churchill's councilmember in a car. We don't have a 142 00:17:25,498 --> 00:17:33,298 current standard like that. >> And chairman, thank you. Director the Super Bowl stops. 143 00:17:35,509 --> 00:17:40,513 How often are they going to each of those locations? >> Generally, mobile libraries 144 00:17:40,513 --> 00:17:45,118 stops are on an every other week. So there's like the first and 3rd Tuesday at 10, 145 00:17:45,118 --> 00:17:49,723 30 or the second and 4th Thursday at 2 o'clock. >> And then question for how 146 00:17:49,723 --> 00:17:56,323 about a long stuff. >> got >> It depends on te staff and 147 00:18:00,467 --> 00:18:10,670 the between 30 minutes and 2 >> You're going to see some slides and data. And I want to 148 00:18:10,209 --> 00:18:18,685 say a word about data. Data is to the primary driver for this decision. Is that I was asked 149 00:18:18,685 --> 00:18:23,757 to reduce our budget. All right. And so I want to be really clear because I've 150 00:18:23,757 --> 00:18:29,369 heard this from community members and I've heard it from other folks. 151 00:18:29,369 --> 00:18:35,976 >> I can't reduce hours at other locations that we own without laying off staff. So 152 00:18:35,976 --> 00:18:42,849 ours reductions in buildings that the library owns equal staff reductions. Dayton's 153 00:18:42,849 --> 00:18:50,123 bluff is a leased space. It is not fair that it is a lease space and that's where i is. 154 00:18:50,123 --> 00:18:55,862 But that's where the cost savings come from. So as we look at this data and as I 155 00:18:55,862 --> 00:19:02,335 look at this data, I'm especially interested in having a conversation about 156 00:19:02,335 --> 00:19:09,142 what this data shows us about usage and what it doesn't show And Councilmember Johnson is 157 00:19:09,142 --> 00:19:12,679 absolutely right. There are lots of different ways. We can tell the story about usage. 158 00:19:12,679 --> 00:19:19,752 But what I will absolutely continue to emphasize is that visitor count, which is the 159 00:19:19,752 --> 00:19:26,159 way that we count, how many people come through the door is an important metric. I 160 00:19:26,159 --> 00:19:31,231 can't deliver library services to you at a location unless you come through the door. 161 00:19:31,231 --> 00:19:38,104 Circulation absolutely is not the only important thing Wi-Fi use is important. PC uses can 162 00:19:38,104 --> 00:19:41,174 Parton program attendance. All of those things are important. And if you look in the 163 00:19:41,174 --> 00:19:46,846 appendix, you have all of that across all of our libraries. The main thing happening here 164 00:19:46,846 --> 00:19:54,921 is the cost of the lease. So I'm not going to walk through all this data, but you can see 165 00:19:54,921 --> 00:19:59,192 it here. >> I remain very interested and very passionate regardless 166 00:19:59,192 --> 00:20:03,329 of what happens with left to continue to have a conversation. 167 00:20:03,329 --> 00:20:08,601 >> With Councilmember Johnson with members of this community to ensure that our library 168 00:20:08,601 --> 00:20:13,406 continues to be used in the way that I know this neighborhood values and watch 169 00:20:13,406 --> 00:20:19,406 their library to the emergency. >> Thank you. And thank you, 170 00:20:20,279 --> 00:20:23,817 director for >> for that for a minute. And just like the overall framing 171 00:20:23,817 --> 00:20:29,422 of it, I think it's it's really important to talk about that. And I won't even say 172 00:20:29,422 --> 00:20:33,920 that, you know, looking at the usage data that is presented, I won't take the time to 173 00:20:33,920 --> 00:20:40,833 really are you the numbers I will put in framing that. The open 51 hours week. Some of 174 00:20:40,833 --> 00:20:48,633 the branches are open. 55 to 59 hours a week. It has 14 computers. And 10 person 175 00:20:49,642 --> 00:20:54,447 meeting room. It's fraction of some of the meeting room spaces of other libraries, 176 00:20:54,447 --> 00:21:01,470 central Arlington Hills. Holiday Inn. Weather closures also follow mentor, State 177 00:21:02,321 --> 00:21:07,393 University. It's close on days. The other branches are open. If you build a smaller 178 00:21:07,393 --> 00:21:13,866 store on a storefront. And you have less hours and less inventory and then you measure 179 00:21:13,866 --> 00:21:20,607 it against the Bears store somewhere else across cty. And then you go, wow, this 180 00:21:20,607 --> 00:21:24,770 small store with the smaller Tori has less usage anywhere else in the city and use that 181 00:21:24,770 --> 00:21:27,680 and compare it. >> To another place for the bigger story for the bigger 182 00:21:27,680 --> 00:21:33,352 star friend. You're surprised that it has less vsitors. I just want to share wth you 183 00:21:33,352 --> 00:21:36,890 that that doesn't necessarily tell you the real data. It also doesn't communicate 184 00:21:36,890 --> 00:21:41,828 whether or not a neighborhood deserves a library. It's comparing apples to oranges. 185 00:21:41,828 --> 00:21:47,567 And I think that that tells you more about how we are investing in the community. 186 00:21:47,567 --> 00:21:54,173 Then and are investigating and a community itself. And so when I look at these numbers, 187 00:21:54,173 --> 00:22:00,380 I just want to put them in the frame that in spite of having a small library with smaller 188 00:22:00,380 --> 00:22:03,716 resources with smaller hours operation and other places across the city. These are 189 00:22:03,716 --> 00:22:08,988 still the numbers putting up a 2025. I want to also be clear that involved was not the 190 00:22:08,988 --> 00:22:15,528 lowest ucits library in 2025. I want to also add in 2020 16 spoke Libre's usage. I's up 191 00:22:15,528 --> 00:22:21,334 7% from where it was this time last year. And I just want to share like some of the pieces 192 00:22:21,334 --> 00:22:29,734 around data and what we're looking through for usage number is twice over the 193 00:22:29,942 --> 00:22:33,947 entire population of days but neighborhood. And we are thinking about just visitors 194 00:22:33,947 --> 00:22:38,351 and people that are looking at. I assume that every person and it brought that lived 195 00:22:38,351 --> 00:22:43,155 spots, including myself, went there 2 to 7, 2.7 as this will be the number of metrics that 196 00:22:43,155 --> 00:22:47,160 you would see. I think data is really incredibly telling. But I just want to frame it. We 197 00:22:47,160 --> 00:22:51,898 have put these numbers up despite not having it infrastructure that we one as 198 00:22:51,898 --> 00:22:57,770 a city owned operated by very in our community. And it's been like that for 22 years. 199 00:22:57,770 --> 00:23:02,108 And so just putting that frame of mind is that like these numbers are coming up, despite 200 00:23:02,108 --> 00:23:07,180 the fact that we as a city has not have not invested in an actual infrastructure building 201 00:23:07,180 --> 00:23:12,452 to own, to operate, to turn, to maintain and so like I see these numbers along with the 202 00:23:12,452 --> 00:23:19,580 other side, you'll see things around like the 73% decline and usage. When we hve a 43% 203 00:23:19,580 --> 00:23:23,996 decline in usage of the systems all over all as metrics and determine Ian's. 204 00:23:23,996 --> 00:23:29,202 And I agree wholeheartedly that these aren't necessarily supposed to be indicative of 205 00:23:29,202 --> 00:23:33,600 whether a neighborhood stays there. But I have to reframe the usage data and to give it 206 00:23:33,600 --> 00:23:38,211 context because you're talking about it square footage that is significantly smaller than 207 00:23:38,211 --> 00:23:42,948 other places in the city. You're also talking about a library that has small the 208 00:23:42,948 --> 00:23:48,555 resource, a smaller staff that is maintained change management. Multiple times. 209 00:23:48,555 --> 00:23:53,920 You're also talking about just several disadvantages, several situations where we are to 210 00:23:53,920 --> 00:23:58,565 that scene and But they've or hood a neighborhood that is are ready to send that 211 00:23:58,565 --> 00:24:00,833 invested in a neighborhood with a of average income lower than $50,000 for a family of 212 00:24:00,833 --> 00:24:06,906 4. And you're saying news at the same as you would pretty much a supermarket in another 213 00:24:06,906 --> 00:24:11,845 area and the city. And that's just not a fair analysis. So I just wanted to say that 214 00:24:11,845 --> 00:24:19,452 reframe it and to talk about why usage data itself too. Justify library existing are 215 00:24:19,452 --> 00:24:26,259 not existing isn't inherently. Inequitable tool when you're talking about buildings of not 216 00:24:26,259 --> 00:24:30,396 the same hour as operations and not the same size and I will just add into a 25 with a 217 00:24:30,396 --> 00:24:38,404 cyber attack. We literally had no computer usage. so it's just ironic that we are using 218 00:24:38,404 --> 00:24:43,220 usage data. And here we have to take into account the fact that it's library continues to 219 00:24:43,220 --> 00:24:48,250 be a driving factor for Wi-Fi and computer usage and that resource was not afforded to 220 00:24:48,250 --> 00:24:51,628 the is my residents along with the rest of the city and multiple times throughout the 221 00:24:51,628 --> 00:24:57,234 city. So just putting that into perspective. I'm also just like I have several other 222 00:24:57,234 --> 00:25:01,105 remarks at all coming today. So I'm really thankful that the Inc plus libre information 223 00:25:01,105 --> 00:25:04,107 was put on the appendix and put in the beginning because I think it'll make for a 224 00:25:04,107 --> 00:25:08,307 fruitful conversation. forward. >> really appreciate that. I 225 00:25:11,180 --> 00:25:18,540 think what want to just emphasize, it's difficult 2000 but it's just emphasize that 226 00:25:18,540 --> 00:25:23,793 the 15 visits per hour, even though like we're seeing the data. But that's a person 227 00:25:23,793 --> 00:25:26,329 that's getting a Resources with a library staff. A deeply cares about them being not 228 00:25:26,329 --> 00:25:31,401 just president in there in the space with that they're utilizing and accessing all of 229 00:25:31,401 --> 00:25:35,672 the wonderful things that are libraries have to offer. So when I even see the 15, this 230 00:25:35,672 --> 00:25:41,812 is per hour and thinking about an individual walking in and seeing a friendly face, some 231 00:25:41,812 --> 00:25:44,548 of that's willing to help them a system of printing offer resume right connecting their 232 00:25:44,548 --> 00:25:49,753 kids to homework. Help time. I'm signing their kids up for reading together or even 233 00:25:49,753 --> 00:25:57,226 accessing, you know, one of mental health assistance a library. even though like yes 234 00:25:57,226 --> 00:26:02,165 to all the data and I really appreciate that greater context for Johnson. You know, 235 00:26:02,165 --> 00:26:04,967 to me, to be honest, this number could be even lower and lower in terms of business per 236 00:26:04,967 --> 00:26:11,107 hour. And there still and incredible inherent value of a single person walking into a 237 00:26:11,107 --> 00:26:16,113 libraries like eons blast. That is walkable from their neighborhood that's serving 238 00:26:16,113 --> 00:26:21,251 their neighborhood. That a system where they're at and and I I just want to emphasize 239 00:26:21,251 --> 00:26:24,721 for myself, again, like the number could be lower and it doesn't change the value that 240 00:26:24,721 --> 00:26:29,726 I see in terms of those folks walking into city resources. So I appreciate comments 241 00:26:29,726 --> 00:26:38,668 Johnson. Thank I yeah. I hear everyone is saying. We're going to there's a lot of data 242 00:26:38,668 --> 00:26:43,873 in this presentation. There's also even more in the appendix and I. 243 00:26:43,873 --> 00:26:49,212 >> I agree that, you know, the usage that is much more complex, just like ay data 244 00:26:49,212 --> 00:26:53,816 set is and there's a lot a lot of different different variables and things that 245 00:26:53,816 --> 00:26:58,355 talked about when you're comparing. One library to another. And I also agree 246 00:26:58,355 --> 00:27:03,930 that, you know, the usage that we're looking at and the cost savings and things like that 247 00:27:03,930 --> 00:27:09,565 don't necessarily equal the value. That guy is that these libraries in the services 248 00:27:09,565 --> 00:27:13,302 provide for our residents. Appreciate that. Framing his are moving forward. I'm going 249 00:27:13,302 --> 00:27:21,912 to have continue that sort. >> Thank you, chair Joe Saint don't want to get in a quibble 250 00:27:21,912 --> 00:27:28,251 about data and knowing that all our libraries are open, different numbers of hours. 251 00:27:28,251 --> 00:27:32,189 That's why I've included in the appendix hour by hour data, right? So we've sort of 252 00:27:32,189 --> 00:27:35,792 equalized against a library that opened 51 hours versus a library that opened 59 hours, 253 00:27:35,792 --> 00:27:41,931 right? So understood there's all kinds of differences. And also I just want to be really 254 00:27:41,931 --> 00:27:47,700 clear. >> That all of our >> this is not a value 255 00:27:47,700 --> 00:27:54,210 judgment. I know it feels like that. It feels like that to my staff a well. 256 00:27:54,210 --> 00:27:59,282 >> this library use is valid and its importance. And also I have the almost impossible 257 00:27:59,282 --> 00:28:06,289 task of cutting a budget, right? So I want to just be very clear that this is not a 258 00:28:06,289 --> 00:28:11,360 value statement. This is about me looking around in the library budget knowing that 259 00:28:11,360 --> 00:28:15,565 the mayor had a priority for not laying our frontline staff and looking at the next thing 260 00:28:15,565 --> 00:28:21,370 that costs the most in our budget. And in this case, it's our buildings. In this case, 261 00:28:21,370 --> 00:28:25,108 it's the lease. So, yes, there are other libraries that have similar used patterns to 262 00:28:25,108 --> 00:28:30,914 Dayton's bluff, but the significant difference being that I can invest in them, I 263 00:28:30,914 --> 00:28:36,453 can control all more of how I hope that they will continue to be used more in the future. 264 00:28:36,453 --> 00:28:42,325 >> And Payton Heights is a great example of that. So I want kind of refocus to nobody 265 00:28:42,325 --> 00:28:47,330 values libraries more than me and my team. And also we're not having a budget neutral 266 00:28:47,330 --> 00:28:50,467 conversation. Of course, 15 visits per hour is legitimate because of all the things that 267 00:28:50,467 --> 00:28:57,207 happened there. But I have a budget problem and I'm looking to you all. And then there, 268 00:28:57,207 --> 00:29:02,212 too. To help figure out what are we going to do about this and also how we can continue 269 00:29:02,212 --> 00:29:11,212 to get our libraries. all over the city? question was asked in preparation for this 270 00:29:14,291 --> 00:29:18,962 meeting. And so I appreciate the help of my. >> A colleagues, the question 271 00:29:18,962 --> 00:29:24,634 was headed to Dayton's bluff and from the safety specialist in 2027 in 2028. So you'll see 272 00:29:24,634 --> 00:29:33,340 the chart here. total 2027 gap is 286,700. And $22. We were also asked what amount of 273 00:29:36,460 --> 00:29:41,451 increase that would be to the overall levy. You'll see that information there. And in a 274 00:29:41,451 --> 00:29:47,190 minute, I'm gonna start talking about library safety specialist. And you'll see the 275 00:29:47,190 --> 00:29:49,926 information requested their approximately what that would result. And for a levy 276 00:29:49,926 --> 00:29:58,326 increase in 2028. So I am gonna move on to library safety specialists. not okay. 277 00:30:05,675 --> 00:30:08,945 >> I think that's I know be more one more time if okay. >> It's intertwined. And as I 278 00:30:08,945 --> 00:30:18,945 said, where it is right now. as the spotty nose. And has been so supportive of the 279 00:30:22,359 --> 00:30:28,359 library started a new safety strategy. >> And 2021 with arpa funding 280 00:30:28,364 --> 00:30:34,437 and has proven more successful than we could have imagined in the 2027 budget. There is an 281 00:30:34,437 --> 00:30:40,643 investment in the library safety strategy. There is 3 point o Fte in our library 282 00:30:40,643 --> 00:30:45,381 safety specialists in the General Fund based budget. You can see the number there there 283 00:30:45,381 --> 00:30:55,630 is. And that's ongoing. There is one point o fte. I for 2027 only and then there is 2 Ft in 284 00:30:55,630 --> 00:31:00,100 the general government special projects carry over. So that's the remainder of the formally 285 00:31:00,100 --> 00:31:05,940 are from money. We request permission to carry over to use in 2027 and then we have 286 00:31:05,940 --> 00:31:11,145 succeeded in getting grant funding for one FT in our library, special funds through 287 00:31:11,145 --> 00:31:18,286 grant from the Mellon Foundation. So the this the remaining 4 of the 7 ing - 288 00:31:18,286 --> 00:31:23,157 safety specialist is the repurposing of public srvice positions from Dayton Library. 289 00:31:23,157 --> 00:31:28,557 Has that become vacant in 2027? >> A special fund investments. 290 00:31:32,366 --> 00:31:38,366 Again. Library safety specialist a strategy. There are 2 library safety 291 00:31:38,372 --> 00:31:40,642 specialist in the general government special projects fund. This is a repeat of what 292 00:31:40,642 --> 00:31:45,914 I just said. >> But it's a special funds and then one library safety 293 00:31:45,914 --> 00:31:52,514 specialist in the library special fund, that restricted grant. Councilman wants. 294 00:31:54,923 --> 00:31:59,327 >> So can you share a little bit more about why they're intertwined? You mention that 295 00:31:59,327 --> 00:32:06,868 this is the way that it is. And I guess I'm trying to understand. Getting money from 296 00:32:06,868 --> 00:32:13,800 the in spots, closure through attrition, somehow intertwined with library safety 297 00:32:13,800 --> 00:32:19,414 specialists being in the general fund. Like help me understand how. Where's the 298 00:32:19,414 --> 00:32:23,885 swap and what is actually share proposed I don't know if this chart. 299 00:32:23,885 --> 00:32:30,910 >> so right now you'll see the chart of the 2027 budget proposal and you'll see that 300 00:32:30,910 --> 00:32:36,631 some of those positions are ongoing. 3 were ongoing. These others are only one time 301 00:32:36,631 --> 00:32:44,506 funding. And so how this is intertwined with the book Library is I you heard me 302 00:32:44,506 --> 00:32:50,245 mention before the date if the Dayton's Bluff Library close as my staff will lose their 303 00:32:50,245 --> 00:32:56,184 positions. But so those positions will be absorbed back into the library system. 304 00:32:56,184 --> 00:33:00,188 But over time through attrition, those positions would be converted into 305 00:33:00,188 --> 00:33:06,862 library safety specialist on a permanent basis. Not the people but the money for those 306 00:33:06,862 --> 00:33:14,620 positions. >> And then as a follow-up. Does that affect change if the 307 00:33:14,936 --> 00:33:22,410 remains open to those staff? Not still have the same type you know, isues the reason 308 00:33:22,410 --> 00:33:29,100 why they would would not remain the same. >> C Jones Councilmember 309 00:33:29,284 --> 00:33:33,287 Johnson, just to be clear, it has nothing to do with the individuals at Dayton's bluff. 310 00:33:33,287 --> 00:33:39,961 It has to do with attrition. So >> in any given year in any 311 00:33:39,961 --> 00:33:45,233 department, people or retire or do anything like that. And so then we have a vacancy. So 312 00:33:45,233 --> 00:33:53,975 were we to have a vacancy? I would repurpose that into a library safety specialist. so 313 00:33:53,975 --> 00:33:59,914 it. So I just want to be clear if Dayton's bluff, where to stay open, I don't have a path 314 00:33:59,914 --> 00:34:05,987 way for permanent funding of my library safety special us. I know it's super complex and 315 00:34:05,987 --> 00:34:09,657 is an example of multi-year funding, which I know that this body and then there are 316 00:34:09,657 --> 00:34:15,196 really interested in. But. >> But what's to keep with that because I know it's 317 00:34:15,196 --> 00:34:16,932 confusing. >> Yeah, because like one of the questions that I ask that 318 00:34:16,932 --> 00:34:21,269 you shared that we budget systemically, we don't. We're systematically we don't budget 319 00:34:21,269 --> 00:34:26,941 individual. My very wise because when asked the question around, how much 320 00:34:26,941 --> 00:34:29,944 money we spend a library. Could you provide the budgets for what we spend use library? 321 00:34:29,944 --> 00:34:35,217 The response I got was we didn't we don't budget per library budget systematically. 322 00:34:35,217 --> 00:34:41,423 And so I'm wondering. How in this case only budgeting specific today's and not 323 00:34:41,423 --> 00:34:45,626 systematically around the staffing for systems for library specialists being that 324 00:34:45,626 --> 00:34:51,990 they special a service, the entire system. That's right. But we're asking today both 325 00:34:51,990 --> 00:34:55,837 library to solve for the budget impacts of the library safety specialists. Despite 326 00:34:55,837 --> 00:34:58,707 not having women on their site. And my understanding is not necessarily having a 327 00:34:58,707 --> 00:35:02,711 permit. One place on the east side. >> Conservatives and I'm not 328 00:35:02,711 --> 00:35:08,116 sure I'm understanding your question. You might need to install sliders specifically. 329 00:35:08,116 --> 00:35:11,520 The budget for the library is being used to fix a systemic problem. But we don't tend to 330 00:35:11,520 --> 00:35:17,520 budget. >> Systematically some just wondering how do we get like 331 00:35:17,580 --> 00:35:24,532 how do we get there a solution? >> I think help. I think what 332 00:35:24,532 --> 00:35:29,738 >> is this what Director Herman saying? Is that because so the library says you 333 00:35:29,738 --> 00:35:35,100 specialists have a multi-year funding challenge >> the lease and these other 334 00:35:35,100 --> 00:35:37,145 cars that the Danes Book Library or what are being proposed being cut. 335 00:35:37,145 --> 00:35:44,953 >> So so the library safety specialists in the teens, library on the list of choices 336 00:35:44,953 --> 00:35:50,425 for places that cuts could be made. I don't believe that library safety specialists as 337 00:35:50,425 --> 00:35:55,630 a system wide service are tied specifically to any library like the teens left labor, 338 00:35:55,630 --> 00:36:02,304 which I think is council Johnson is getting it. >> So thank you, Chair Joe all 339 00:36:02,304 --> 00:36:11,178 stick with it. You are right as a library system we do at budget individually by 340 00:36:11,178 --> 00:36:17,518 library. Our staff belong to the whole system and they're signed to Branch S right. So 341 00:36:17,518 --> 00:36:25,794 when I have this budget, Dayton's bluff is proposed to close. And so there will be 342 00:36:25,794 --> 00:36:33,201 staff savings from that. And there is also a multi-year funding challenge for safety 343 00:36:33,201 --> 00:36:41,276 specialist at the system level that that is how they are intertwined. So we're Dayton's 344 00:36:41,276 --> 00:36:50,170 bluff to be to not close. Then that's great for But then I have a longer-term funding 345 00:36:50,170 --> 00:36:53,621 sustainability challenge for for my safety specialists that based on the proposed budget 346 00:36:53,621 --> 00:37:02,164 in front of us. I mean, thank In the proposed budget, one feeds the other. It does not 347 00:37:02,164 --> 00:37:06,101 have to. But in the proposed budget, that is how race. >> Thank you. Come summer 348 00:37:06,101 --> 00:37:11,440 camp. >> A nice safety specialist we have right now. And are there 349 00:37:11,440 --> 00:37:16,844 any positions vacant? >> We have 7 safety specialist right now. And I believe we 350 00:37:16,844 --> 00:37:21,316 have one vacancy. >> And I the one thing I'll just point out and then I you 351 00:37:21,316 --> 00:37:31,316 can keep. Keep going your side can go back to the safety special. this is going next. 352 00:37:31,459 --> 00:37:37,132 If may be on the for that, if we were to find, you know, we do have a multi-year funding 353 00:37:37,132 --> 00:37:44,606 need here. Should we find another path for sustainable funding for library safety 354 00:37:44,606 --> 00:37:53,815 specialists that would help. So tat would be one way to solve the issue of the. The 355 00:37:53,815 --> 00:38:02,815 cost for are the cost savings of the Dayton Lbrary for 2027 S potentially. Chair Jones. 356 00:38:03,910 --> 00:38:08,897 >> Yes, thanks for simplifying a complicated thing. As you can see in the poposed 357 00:38:08,897 --> 00:38:17,239 budget. I have my needs met for 2027, but I do not have a need that for 4 of the 7 358 00:38:17,239 --> 00:38:25,180 safety specialist beyond 2027. >> I know right now we are in a year by year budget process. 359 00:38:25,180 --> 00:38:31,119 But I also have been asked by the mayor and also this body is to think about our needs on 360 00:38:31,119 --> 00:38:33,721 a multi-year. >> Laval. And so that's what this chart attempts to do. It 361 00:38:33,721 --> 00:38:41,996 attempts to find a way through that does plant them on to the operating budget at one 362 00:38:41,996 --> 00:38:47,402 >> And basically there's this is again oly based on the mayor's proposed budget and 363 00:38:47,402 --> 00:38:54,409 the legend goes, but it there. So there could multiple different pathway is too 364 00:38:54,409 --> 00:38:57,479 finding alternative sources for library safety specialist funding sources for the lease 365 00:38:57,479 --> 00:39:01,283 for the Danes both library in those costs. But this is all just based on the proposed 366 00:39:01,283 --> 00:39:08,890 budget cuts in front of us. And we'll keep going. And just in a quick, yes, time check 367 00:39:08,890 --> 00:39:16,231 your We've got 20 or so minutes left on to other reductions to bring to your 368 00:39:16,231 --> 00:39:17,899 attention. >> We're taking an attrition reduction and attrition 369 00:39:17,899 --> 00:39:23,505 reduction means that the hold positions more Bay Kent. is about the same rate that we 370 00:39:23,505 --> 00:39:30,779 help this year in 2025. >> And we are doing OK, so. I move on to higher priority. 371 00:39:30,779 --> 00:39:35,784 Things were OK. >> We are also you'll also see a shift of partial library 372 00:39:35,784 --> 00:39:39,588 materials funding to a special fund. >> And that accounts for the 373 00:39:39,588 --> 00:39:45,526 revenue that I'm going to talk about right here. So lot to make a long story. Short 374 00:39:45,526 --> 00:39:48,597 revenue for the library, like how much you pay for printing or copying comes in through 375 00:39:48,597 --> 00:39:55,737 our special funds. you'll also see in this proposed budget, a onetime investment and updated 376 00:39:55,737 --> 00:40:02,100 this account. Technology across all library locations. Right now. It's a very manual 377 00:40:02,100 --> 00:40:06,815 Just be clear. We do a way to count people that come through our doors. It's like a click 378 00:40:06,815 --> 00:40:13,488 or thing. And yeah, our staff go and look at it, right. on a piece of paper. Our e-mail it 379 00:40:13,488 --> 00:40:18,760 over. I'm looking for an investment and real-time technology there so that we 380 00:40:18,760 --> 00:40:24,966 are better so that we could actually tracked by location by our by day of the week, 381 00:40:24,966 --> 00:40:29,371 which location where what locations are busy when think it's a really important thing 382 00:40:29,371 --> 00:40:35,710 for us to be able to know and we don't have the ability to do that right now. You'll also 383 00:40:35,710 --> 00:40:40,916 see the increase here, the library alone cannot. >> So all the cities increase 384 00:40:40,916 --> 00:40:46,922 in revenue challenges, but but we also recognize we want to do our part black and white 385 00:40:46,922 --> 00:40:51,580 copies and prince for proposing increasing from $0.15 to $0.20 per page. 386 00:40:51,580 --> 00:40:57,265 Notary service is proposing increasing from a dollar per transaction to $2 per 387 00:40:57,265 --> 00:41:04,720 transaction. our staff are working to pilot a project to charge for professional posed 388 00:41:04,720 --> 00:41:13,140 George Latimer said library after hours. History of our budget to actual is that we 389 00:41:13,140 --> 00:41:22,140 are always under budget. >> library culture, as all of you know, is one of fllowing 390 00:41:22,224 --> 00:41:28,162 the rules. And so I would ask you to know the difference here. That is all. 391 00:41:28,162 --> 00:41:37,105 >> I think okay. think that's a really important point to make. I I want to also bring 392 00:41:37,105 --> 00:41:42,243 up the when the library doesn't spend It's budgeted amount at the end of the year. 393 00:41:42,243 --> 00:41:46,180 Whatever's left over goes into our library fund balance. We have our own library fund 394 00:41:46,180 --> 00:41:53,540 balance because we are live separate library agency and we have our own levee and so. 395 00:41:53,540 --> 00:41:57,792 It's my understanding question for Ms Mitchell tat we also have a library fund balance 396 00:41:57,792 --> 00:42:03,932 right now of close to 9 million dollars. and that in the past has been sometimes a 397 00:42:03,932 --> 00:42:11,339 way that we have used one-time funding to be able to support needs one time, but it's very 398 00:42:11,339 --> 00:42:14,675 challenging because the library fund balance is also part of the General Fund 399 00:42:14,675 --> 00:42:22,350 balance. And we have a general fund balance policy that needs that needs to be at least 15%. 400 00:42:22,350 --> 00:42:26,200 that impacts our AAA bond rating impact that cost the city more money to borrow 401 00:42:26,200 --> 00:42:31,826 money. And so as Director Hermann also just mention, as we're looking at budget to 402 00:42:31,826 --> 00:42:38,833 actuals ad the library has continued to the great, you know, fiscal fiscally 403 00:42:38,833 --> 00:42:41,236 responsible by under spending. That's not the case with a lot of oher departments. Some 404 00:42:41,236 --> 00:42:45,907 departments continueto overspend. And so we're in the situation where the library 405 00:42:45,907 --> 00:42:52,447 has a large fund balance. Fortunately, and that money has to be used to help some 406 00:42:52,447 --> 00:42:57,519 other issues with the rest of the general fund, which I'll say makes make some of the 407 00:42:57,519 --> 00:43:03,991 problems we're facing here. Very, very frustrating when we're looking at the cuts of a 408 00:43:03,991 --> 00:43:08,662 library that are being proposed. And that's the situation that we're in. I 409 00:43:08,662 --> 00:43:16,607 don't a special. Can you share anything else about the fund balance to got it all Okay. 410 00:43:16,607 --> 00:43:20,543 Councilman, thank you, chair. Can I just ask a clarifying question? 411 00:43:20,543 --> 00:43:26,543 >> Did in fact $913,000 from 2025. Go to the Library fund balance. 412 00:43:26,884 --> 00:43:35,284 >> That the full total of that. The $913,351 didn't go to the library fund balance. 413 00:43:37,361 --> 00:43:43,961 Chair Johnson Councilmember excuse me, chair just Johnson. >> And 25 members are 414 00:43:44,368 --> 00:43:48,304 unaudited. So I'm not sure where land once we finish all of our final entries. But that 415 00:43:48,304 --> 00:43:55,645 is what would happen that is the final number at the end, often trees are done work. 416 00:43:55,645 --> 00:44:03,186 >> OK, so fr 2024, them out. The went to the fund balance was 170,000 for 2023. It was 417 00:44:03,186 --> 00:44:07,524 713. >> And so forth, counselor. Yes, the other side of this, 418 00:44:07,524 --> 00:44:12,595 it isn't showing is the revenue. So it's it's the net between spending and revenue 419 00:44:12,595 --> 00:44:16,400 library revenues, I believe usually come in pretty close to budget. So I wouldn't 420 00:44:16,400 --> 00:44:20,938 expect there to be huge variance there. So I would I would think that for each of 421 00:44:20,938 --> 00:44:27,611 those in in general range and then as a just a follow-up and something to note here. 422 00:44:27,611 --> 00:44:32,349 >> I'm also looking at the 2026 numbers. And I know that there on on it it and we go 423 00:44:32,349 --> 00:44:37,621 into those spaces. But justice. Sharing that. >> How much again, as the 424 00:44:37,621 --> 00:44:45,421 total for LeBron specialists. That are like the total amount per library specialists 100. 425 00:44:46,163 --> 00:44:53,963 It's practically $110,000. >> Okay. And so budget for for what you're short for library 426 00:44:54,370 --> 00:44:59,437 specialist. So about 4.40, is that accurate? >> For 40 plus 2.70. Just 427 00:44:59,843 --> 00:45:05,582 doing basic map is lower than 113,000 that we return to library fund balance. And I 428 00:45:05,582 --> 00:45:14,582 just want to share that. I a concerned what? And this presumed issue with holding 429 00:45:16,727 --> 00:45:20,130 the in Spotify very in operation and maintain library. Specialist, it seems 430 00:45:20,130 --> 00:45:25,200 a little interesting to me that for the last consecutive. 3 budget cycles prior to this 431 00:45:25,200 --> 00:45:32,409 one. We've had. A quarter of a million dollars or more in the budget Fund for the fund 432 00:45:32,409 --> 00:45:39,416 balance that we currently operate that currently holds 9 million dollars in it. I am 433 00:45:39,416 --> 00:45:45,889 really interested in knowing 2026. Ends up being being that this number was pulled in 434 00:45:45,889 --> 00:45:48,759 August 24th. I know it's not audited. Know. There's a lot of things that go into it. But 435 00:45:48,759 --> 00:45:54,298 there's only 3 months left of the year. And so I am curious if we will actually spend 10.5 436 00:45:54,298 --> 00:45:59,236 million dollars and the next 3 months because the format, then I actually would 437 00:45:59,236 --> 00:46:05,420 encourage my colleagues to really think about that number, because do we need to 438 00:46:05,420 --> 00:46:07,577 cut back in a million dollars into the library fund balances? Can we save 439 00:46:07,577 --> 00:46:13,500 Dance-pop library can we find library specialists? Because I think to this, you know, piece 440 00:46:13,500 --> 00:46:17,254 for me, this was actually a slide that I thought was really important because it 441 00:46:17,254 --> 00:46:22,326 gives the reality is that we Arsene that I think the stink in different departments so 442 00:46:22,326 --> 00:46:25,863 often in departments with a cop and talk about budget cuts, they are operating from 443 00:46:25,863 --> 00:46:30,400 a deficit ad the library budget particular. We do not have that same issue showing 444 00:46:30,400 --> 00:46:36,473 up in the budget to actuals the variances to pay atention to. And we're proposing a 445 00:46:36,473 --> 00:46:42,120 budget possibly for an actual budget problem that does not exist. If we are able to be 446 00:46:42,120 --> 00:46:46,830 able to carry over finding anyway or even just allocate with the decision that quite 447 00:46:46,830 --> 00:46:50,554 literally we get to make, which is that library fund balance transfer may happen 448 00:46:50,554 --> 00:46:56,493 but does not have to happen. And I think that's one of the questions that I have for us 449 00:46:56,493 --> 00:47:01,498 as we think about it. Because again, the savings from this is 270,000. That amount of 450 00:47:01,498 --> 00:47:05,568 money that is needed to be falling for next year is also less combined than the total 451 00:47:05,568 --> 00:47:13,176 various that we had from 2025. And that was a weird year. And so looking into this year. The 452 00:47:13,176 --> 00:47:17,180 trend increasing. So I'm just looking at the trends, looking at the patterns and simply 453 00:47:17,180 --> 00:47:20,249 identifying that. I don't actually think there's a budget issue And so that's 454 00:47:20,249 --> 00:47:25,455 something that I want to share for you all as your consideration. Yeah, come 455 00:47:25,455 --> 00:47:28,591 Summer. Johnson, thanks for bringing that up. That number also jumped out at me. I think 456 00:47:28,591 --> 00:47:31,995 it's it's my understanding and and you can correct me. But they're still. 457 00:47:31,995 --> 00:47:35,132 >> A few months of payroll to be cut up on and some payments that only come through at the 458 00:47:35,132 --> 00:47:39,602 end of the year. But to Councilmember Johnson's Point Library does continue to 459 00:47:39,602 --> 00:47:44,675 understand its budget every year. The money. I think we did use some of that money for 460 00:47:44,675 --> 00:47:49,479 transferring libraries in the past before it went into the fund balance the fund balance 461 00:47:49,479 --> 00:47:53,683 money in the library can only be used for the libraries, but its also my understanding at 462 00:47:53,683 --> 00:47:58,888 the end of the year that the library and are spending gets compared to all the other 463 00:47:58,888 --> 00:48:02,759 departments and some of the over spending. And sometimes that money is used to offset. 464 00:48:02,759 --> 00:48:09,766 The entire budget at the end of the year. And so that's the other thing is like we. It is 465 00:48:09,766 --> 00:48:15,380 it is in our best interest to spend the money. If we this year. 466 00:48:15,380 --> 00:48:19,576 >> We certainly are trying our best. Yeah. And that's but but yeah, that's what's very 467 00:48:19,576 --> 00:48:26,516 frustrating. It's just that this is the library's money, but it's the news. To offset 468 00:48:26,516 --> 00:48:30,387 other departments. And that's why sometimes we don't always have all this money left over 469 00:48:30,387 --> 00:48:33,256 because we needed to balance the budget at the end of the year. And sometimes that's 470 00:48:33,256 --> 00:48:38,327 because of, you know, whether it's the cybersecurity attack. You know, the police 471 00:48:38,327 --> 00:48:40,931 department continues to overspend their budget and things like that. And that's 472 00:48:40,931 --> 00:48:50,531 what puts us in quite a bind. I will go to council member council vice-president Yang. 473 00:48:51,140 --> 00:48:57,213 Councilmember Coleman. Did you have an alert? Was a fallen about okay. It occasion. You 474 00:48:57,213 --> 00:48:59,883 have a view of customer Johnson contest putting inconsolable. 475 00:48:59,883 --> 00:49:04,200 >> And just to carify, we signed the lease for Metro State University under 476 00:49:04,200 --> 00:49:08,224 suspension as a council action last month. >> So we're looking at just 477 00:49:08,224 --> 00:49:12,895 the contract and actually the contract years, cutting a check to Metro State to 478 00:49:12,895 --> 00:49:17,968 protect our lease. And this year as of this year expenses, a doable thing that we can do. 479 00:49:17,968 --> 00:49:22,777 But I have to wait to January one, 2027 2 to pay that the Metro State University for our 480 00:49:22,777 --> 00:49:27,382 lease. So just to be clear, we signed a three-year lease with Metro State under suspension 481 00:49:27,382 --> 00:49:32,721 of the council. That's an active think that we have now this would actually be Alice 482 00:49:32,721 --> 00:49:36,191 preach. So just wanted to share from fiscal year to fiscal year, doesn't operate 483 00:49:36,191 --> 00:49:43,391 in the same fiscal year that we have. >> Thank you. Council votes 484 00:49:43,465 --> 00:49:48,603 it. Thanks, for some thank you, doctor, having for your presentation today. 485 00:49:48,603 --> 00:49:53,275 >> know that it's and I definitely feel what you're sharing what you should the 486 00:49:53,275 --> 00:49:57,813 beginning about it being a really tough presentation. >> I do want to get my 487 00:49:57,813 --> 00:50:00,816 thoughts. And before the meeting and switches that I'm not supportive of the closure 488 00:50:00,816 --> 00:50:06,689 of the day and Spotify, very. >> There is not an alternate about all that for increasing 489 00:50:06,689 --> 00:50:11,226 library services for the neighborhood. And I mentioned at the table here, if we were 490 00:50:11,226 --> 00:50:16,699 to do something really drastic a big like this, it must come. It was the married with a plan 491 00:50:16,699 --> 00:50:22,170 on how we do ensure, especially they carry it committees of communities that 492 00:50:22,170 --> 00:50:26,308 are marginalized areas, areas, country poverty in low-income families, working class 493 00:50:26,308 --> 00:50:32,781 families to continue to have that access. know that every single year we always have the 494 00:50:32,781 --> 00:50:34,716 same conversation about library fund balance. They want to bring that up because 495 00:50:34,716 --> 00:50:42,590 I think this is my 7th council probably my 7th year hearing about over and over again. And 496 00:50:42,590 --> 00:50:46,861 I can't say enough how like Arsenal, public libraries has really been the one carrying 497 00:50:46,861 --> 00:50:51,733 the heavy load when it comes to eating putting dollars into the fund balance overall. And 498 00:50:51,733 --> 00:50:57,139 I really believe it's time for us to create major wins for library system. I want that. 499 00:50:57,139 --> 00:51:05,130 And so I wanted to express as you know, my commitment in making strides toward that 500 00:51:05,130 --> 00:51:07,816 this year and wanted to just really calling all of us on the board here to continue 501 00:51:07,816 --> 00:51:17,816 doing that, too. I believe these these cuts that you've had to have do and just even 502 00:51:18,560 --> 00:51:23,165 come up with the we don't need at And we can definitely find us all for Even if it doesn't 503 00:51:23,165 --> 00:51:28,704 come from the Very fund You all as my colleagues have heard me talk a lot about 504 00:51:28,704 --> 00:51:34,777 early justification of TIF districts, which I'm very supportive of of all of them 505 00:51:34,777 --> 00:51:38,714 really. And and so I just want to continue like bringing in that spirit of hope and 506 00:51:38,714 --> 00:51:42,917 opportunities for us. And instead of like continue to keep us trapped in this 507 00:51:42,917 --> 00:51:51,193 conversation aound scarcity overall. I I just hopeful and I will continue sharing that 508 00:51:51,193 --> 00:51:56,640 out and again, want express I'm not supportive of the closure and wanted to just let 509 00:51:56,640 --> 00:52:02,270 you know, cover Johnson that I'm a I'm here as a partner with you in that work can 510 00:52:02,270 --> 00:52:07,676 thank you as well for being an advocate for Eastside Last I just noticed that there isn't 511 00:52:07,676 --> 00:52:11,947 anything around the library collections and the slides here. So last year, I did sure 512 00:52:11,947 --> 00:52:18,220 that I'm not supportive of us using cultural star money as one time funding for library 513 00:52:18,220 --> 00:52:20,489 collections. I've even heard from star board members who are very oposed to the idea 514 00:52:20,489 --> 00:52:24,893 of continue to do that. >> Wanted to just reiterate where my stances on it. And so 515 00:52:24,893 --> 00:52:30,565 is there any sort of proposal at all for library collections and where that money would 516 00:52:30,565 --> 00:52:37,165 come from. >> And Joe's Cuncilmember Yang, it's in the And it's 517 00:52:38,240 --> 00:52:46,640 page. 33 that illustrates the council invest Vance in the past and what the amount 518 00:52:48,450 --> 00:52:56,250 needed in 2027 would be in order to get to that. >> 15% keeping our spending 519 00:52:58,459 --> 00:53:02,664 power level. >> I defer any conversations about what that spending 520 00:53:02,664 --> 00:53:07,668 source would be to to all of you. I don't have a. >> I don't have a single one. 521 00:53:07,668 --> 00:53:10,471 OK? Thank you. I didn't see that slight. Yeah. I didn't see like you know what, 522 00:53:10,471 --> 00:53:15,343 basically the plan for next year would be to increase the. >> Dollars for that's yeah. I 523 00:53:15,343 --> 00:53:22,750 that all. OK, thank you, OK? So we have cause for Common Council. President maker 524 00:53:22,750 --> 00:53:27,422 director have in Tulsa still have. >> Maybe 5 or 6 more slides 525 00:53:27,422 --> 00:53:33,495 after this. So I have us into your question ask you questions. I think them let's 526 00:53:33,495 --> 00:53:37,766 go through the presentation and then. Maybe we'll end up with a few minutes left at the 527 00:53:37,766 --> 00:53:42,704 end. If that's alright council. >> Thank you. Chair of quickly 528 00:53:42,704 --> 00:53:48,430 pick up on the theme hope and optimism from Councilmember As I do think that very clear 529 00:53:48,430 --> 00:53:52,914 that there's no interest in on this board in closing that will fly brain. I think it's 530 00:53:52,914 --> 00:53:56,651 just a question of what is the mechanism that we use to make sure we have the funding. But 531 00:53:56,651 --> 00:54:03,658 it feels like a nonstarter. From my perspective Tony, appreciate that. You know, you 532 00:54:03,658 --> 00:54:05,794 have to present the budget as it is and also really grateful that we have this point. That 533 00:54:05,794 --> 00:54:09,664 is. That is going to do whatever it takes to save the library because we know how 534 00:54:09,664 --> 00:54:13,535 absolutely essential it is. With that in mind, I just have them turn understand 535 00:54:13,535 --> 00:54:18,730 mechanisms that we might be able to explore. Section in question is for Miss Mitchell 536 00:54:18,730 --> 00:54:23,780 because they don't have 7 years of talking about fund balance. 537 00:54:23,780 --> 00:54:28,283 >> Can you 6 Is it legal requirement that all of the if we were to say when everybody 538 00:54:28,283 --> 00:54:34,220 is left at the end of 2026, were put into it to the library 2027. We want that 539 00:54:34,220 --> 00:54:37,425 rollover that law that we changed resolution is that we can't change. But with that 540 00:54:37,425 --> 00:54:44,250 look like technically. >> Chair, just counselor Johnson, thank you for the 541 00:54:44,832 --> 00:54:49,838 question of first. I want to correct something that I said What decide that we shot saw 542 00:54:49,838 --> 00:54:54,576 had just the spending side. I have some other information here that I'm looking at that 543 00:54:54,576 --> 00:55:01,249 show the actual contributions and Yusuf amount in the last few years fr 2025. The 544 00:55:01,249 --> 00:55:05,587 country to library fund balance. Once we factor in revenue in all of their sort 545 00:55:05,587 --> 00:55:12,600 of like very technical accounting things. The country is actually 68,000 and then in 546 00:55:12,600 --> 00:55:16,665 2024, it was actually a use of fund balance of 120,000. And then in 2023 in this, I don't 547 00:55:16,665 --> 00:55:23,738 have details on what this was, but it was a it was a higher contribution close to 548 00:55:23,738 --> 00:55:27,750 2 Million. So I'm not really sure what the variance is there. more more details. We 549 00:55:27,750 --> 00:55:33,431 can dig into the details on. And 23 in particular. But this is only sort of what less than 550 00:55:33,431 --> 00:55:42,400 half of the of the Equation for Fund balance. There's an adopted policy around the fund 551 00:55:42,400 --> 00:55:46,177 balance percent that we have to maintain a city. >> And that's 15%. And as 552 00:55:46,177 --> 00:55:50,581 chair just mentioned, the library is is a portion of that. The Library General Fund 553 00:55:50,581 --> 00:55:59,123 in the City General Fund combines need to be 15% of the next year's adopted budget. So 554 00:55:59,123 --> 00:56:02,660 that's that's a challenge for us every year. And just the way that that policy is set up 555 00:56:02,660 --> 00:56:08,332 because every yar the adopted budget grows. So for us to even maintain that, a 556 00:56:08,332 --> 00:56:12,337 percentage with the denominator growing, we need to be contributing to fund 557 00:56:12,337 --> 00:56:18,476 balance every year to stay at or above the 15% now say the 15% is. Is low. Like that's 558 00:56:18,476 --> 00:56:24,820 our like minimum. I minimum percent and actually like cities of our size, usually 559 00:56:24,820 --> 00:56:30,682 target 20 to 30%. So coming in at 16, 17% is pretty low for us. 560 00:56:31,489 --> 00:56:38,890 >> I'm not sure if there is a legal. >> Requirement around served 561 00:56:39,297 --> 00:56:42,901 way that things get a count. It I I believe that it's just sort of a natural accounting 562 00:56:42,901 --> 00:56:49,400 function that the funds unspent in the library fund remain in the library fund. 563 00:56:49,400 --> 00:56:55,580 but I mean, they're they're certainly accessible in a number of of ways. We can. Do 564 00:56:55,580 --> 00:57:00,918 budget amendments that access use of fund balance. It's not sort of like totally wild off. 565 00:57:00,918 --> 00:57:08,126 That sort of answer question. Do. That's president. Thanks to just that 2 comments from 566 00:57:08,126 --> 00:57:11,462 the question. First of all, in response to that information that you just shared a 567 00:57:11,462 --> 00:57:15,733 special, I have to say it's really discouraging to see this information be shared 568 00:57:15,733 --> 00:57:19,400 with us to advance presented here and then to have that context that you're referring 569 00:57:19,400 --> 00:57:23,208 to from something we haven't seen. >> This body can only make 570 00:57:23,208 --> 00:57:27,479 decisions that are as good as the information presented and that this slide should not 571 00:57:27,479 --> 00:57:32,683 have been presented to us without that additional information is misleading. 572 00:57:32,683 --> 00:57:38,490 It's erroneous and it leads us to a line of questioning that. Is not backed up by the data 573 00:57:38,490 --> 00:57:43,761 that you're talking about, that we haven't seen so I just think Herschel information is 574 00:57:43,761 --> 00:57:46,231 similar to misinformation. We have to know the rest of what you're talking about. And I 575 00:57:46,231 --> 00:57:50,235 just really want to ask double down and particular as you're reviewing department sides, 576 00:57:50,235 --> 00:57:56,708 please make sure that we have full information and and that we're not talking about things 577 00:57:56,708 --> 00:58:02,513 that are that backed by additional data. We haven't seen that's one thing. 578 00:58:02,513 --> 00:58:06,184 Secondly, I do want to say director at to the vice president's question about 579 00:58:06,184 --> 00:58:09,720 materials, budget. I'm disappointed to see that it seems like since we passed 580 00:58:09,720 --> 00:58:15,600 resolution of this body saying that we would be keeping purchasing power, constant 581 00:58:15,600 --> 00:58:19,664 year-over-year in the labor materials budget that the base budget for materials has gne 582 00:58:19,664 --> 00:58:24,468 down. The goal of that resolution wasn't to give ourselves an obligation to 583 00:58:24,468 --> 00:58:28,539 fill a larger and larger gap every year because the base budget that's been proposed is 584 00:58:28,539 --> 00:58:32,142 decreasing. But to really put the onus on the library for library director and 585 00:58:32,142 --> 00:58:36,814 departments to present to the board a materials. But they keep pace with inflation. And 586 00:58:36,814 --> 00:58:42,152 it's all for that. And to the vice president's point, I think any of us 20's, cultural 587 00:58:42,152 --> 00:58:46,891 star won $10 to make up gap. But it seems like every year the base budget is getting 588 00:58:46,891 --> 00:58:53,831 smaller. And so that gap of what it would take would is really growing. so happy to 589 00:58:53,831 --> 00:58:57,769 hear your thoughts on that. And then my question relates to and I agree with Ms 590 00:58:57,769 --> 00:59:00,571 Coleman, Johnson, everyone around this table. I don't think there's interest because 591 00:59:00,571 --> 00:59:03,974 the close in the but library and wondering what conversations we've had with 592 00:59:03,974 --> 00:59:09,246 Metro State about the lease about the terms of the lease at it seems that the full cost 593 00:59:09,246 --> 00:59:14,385 of this is truly. The lease arrangement that we have and it is surprising that we just 594 00:59:14,385 --> 00:59:19,256 signed a new lease a couple weeks ago when this was being considered or proposed 595 00:59:19,256 --> 00:59:27,560 wondering what we've discussed with them. Chair council president maker. I'm just sort 596 00:59:30,534 --> 00:59:32,870 of respectfully. >> response to your question about needing to make sure we 597 00:59:32,870 --> 00:59:38,142 have the actual information from >> This is a council provided 598 00:59:38,142 --> 00:59:42,613 time flat. So we're going to need ask ahead of time in order to provide you with the 599 00:59:42,613 --> 00:59:48,419 information that you seek this in this Templet is about a variance, not about what 600 00:59:48,419 --> 00:59:54,920 remains in the library fund balance so we do a better job. But only if we know what your 601 00:59:54,920 --> 01:00:00,365 questions are ahead of time. And in the I'm just wanting to work together. But also I 602 01:00:00,365 --> 01:00:05,636 don't think fair when that complaint provided to us. Ahead of time, we're doing 603 01:00:05,636 --> 01:00:11,509 what we can with wat you've asked Tester provide. So very, truly respectfully. It's just 604 01:00:11,509 --> 01:00:15,379 I know that continues to come up and we're doing the best with what you've provided to 605 01:00:15,379 --> 01:00:21,919 us. All the difference. >> OK, I we have 4 minutes until a jury is supposed to 606 01:00:21,919 --> 01:00:28,590 start and I have a line of questions from folks and I know we still 5 or 6 more 607 01:00:28,590 --> 01:00:33,330 slide. So I guess Jones and you want us to keep sorry. I just hve to respectfully as 608 01:00:33,330 --> 01:00:40,271 the chair of the Budget Committee to create a template. On Friday when 609 01:00:40,271 --> 01:00:45,810 lights were given. You had a direct question about the fund balance. And so, you know, 610 01:00:45,810 --> 01:00:50,147 director, it was there was question that was matching our norms and our council process 611 01:00:50,147 --> 01:00:58,890 for how to give those to you. needed respond to my office with I nodded financials that 612 01:00:58,890 --> 01:01:04,561 I could easily out in this conversation, but I'm choosing not to regards to ongoing 613 01:01:04,561 --> 01:01:10,168 offload competition offline. >> But yeah, I mean, like in reality, I asked those 614 01:01:10,168 --> 01:01:13,170 questions to Miss Mitchell, knowing in some places that I could continue to move forward 615 01:01:13,170 --> 01:01:18,509 about the slide. >> The site itself looks factual. The question is how 616 01:01:18,509 --> 01:01:24,248 much money got into the fund balance, which does differ substantially. So the question 617 01:01:24,248 --> 01:01:29,530 remains where that money go. So 913,000 from 2025, is unspent in your budget and it 618 01:01:29,530 --> 01:01:34,792 did not hit the fund balance. The question remains firm for office. Word of that call. And 619 01:01:34,792 --> 01:01:36,928 so that's the question that's given to you. But I just want to respectfully share with you 620 01:01:36,928 --> 01:01:41,875 that. We did send it to you and we did send it to ahead of time. I asked specific 621 01:01:41,875 --> 01:01:47,348 question. It was chosen not to be added to the slide on the slide deck. That was a choice. 622 01:01:47,348 --> 01:01:50,818 And so I just want to share that with and full transparency because I have my 623 01:01:50,818 --> 01:01:58,225 email that I study. 21 questions on Friday I did not see your slides into event. 624 01:01:58,225 --> 01:02:02,830 So, you know, Iappreciate the Templet I do not respect sharing temp. What is the 625 01:02:02,830 --> 01:02:08,168 reason that you're not able to ask a question that answer a question that was given to you 626 01:02:08,168 --> 01:02:11,372 and that maybe isn't related to just you. That's what it to the information that we 627 01:02:11,372 --> 01:02:17,244 receive. But I just wanted to correct that because we have been talking tough and on 628 01:02:17,244 --> 01:02:22,649 specifically the decision to not include te fund balance information regarding it was a 629 01:02:22,649 --> 01:02:26,587 choice. counselor. Just I just I I was in the library preview meeting a few days ago. We did 630 01:02:26,587 --> 01:02:32,660 talk about the library fund balance. I think that with. The Library fund numbers, some 631 01:02:32,660 --> 01:02:36,664 of them being an audited and things like that. That's why they were put into 632 01:02:36,664 --> 01:02:42,536 >> publicly into this presentation. I think also that the I know that you did 633 01:02:42,536 --> 01:02:49,343 ask a lot of questions and we do have Templet that we send in advance. I do agree that if 634 01:02:49,343 --> 01:02:55,215 could follow up with more detail on the amount of money put into the fund be helpful 635 01:02:55,215 --> 01:02:59,553 and I know sometimes we have deviated from the budget. 10 point, but it does take time 636 01:02:59,553 --> 01:03:04,758 to pull that information together. And so I don't I don't think that it was 637 01:03:04,758 --> 01:03:07,561 intentional, not providing information that think that's what's happening here. Think 638 01:03:07,561 --> 01:03:10,497 that it's takes time to build up those things together. Accurately, especially when 639 01:03:10,497 --> 01:03:17,571 we're talking about, you know, finances that can be that having that. did to make sure 640 01:03:17,571 --> 01:03:23,430 that accurate iformation is provided and that staff has a reasonable amount of time. I 641 01:03:23,430 --> 01:03:29,450 do not over the weekend to have to pull those things together. I think Councilman 642 01:03:29,450 --> 01:03:33,921 Jones we do have to start charity. 2 o'clock. Is that correct? Yes, OK, so you want? 643 01:03:33,921 --> 01:03:42,863 So I guess we should probably wrap up here I know there are a few more slides. Give 644 01:03:42,863 --> 01:03:49,470 anything you want to say a like Start to end. On that note. I just I really respect 645 01:03:49,470 --> 01:03:53,940 this body respect the work that we're trying to do together. 646 01:03:53,940 --> 01:03:59,679 >> also just we're gonna have to keep working. >> Respectfully together 647 01:03:59,679 --> 01:04:04,284 forward. And it's my job to work with both you and and as well. And I stand ready to 648 01:04:04,284 --> 01:04:07,821 provide you with any information. >> And look forward to 649 01:04:07,821 --> 01:04:11,910 continuing t support libraries. And thank you for that. 650 01:04:11,910 --> 01:04:15,896 >> Thank you. Well, tis is a big discussion. I know we didn't get to get to all of 651 01:04:15,896 --> 01:04:19,990 these slides today. And I thought that that might be the case. So please follow up with 652 01:04:19,990 --> 01:04:21,969 questions. You can include assure itself and mood and we'll try to get them 653 01:04:21,969 --> 01:04:27,508 answered. I just want to say in closing, you know, I hear what folks are saying at the 654 01:04:27,508 --> 01:04:31,440 table as we're talking with the closure of the library. That's very painful. It's 655 01:04:31,440 --> 01:04:37,250 difficult. I do agree that I don't think that there is appetite at this table to move 656 01:04:37,250 --> 01:04:42,550 forward with a budget that includes the closure of the Dayton spoke library. All say 657 01:04:42,550 --> 01:04:45,725 that I fully committed. I've appreciated working in partnership with customer 658 01:04:45,725 --> 01:04:51,732 Johnson with all of you and a matter of what the set look like and I'll say that I am 659 01:04:51,732 --> 01:04:56,603 supportive of a variety of different ways that we can do that. Whether you know, we do 660 01:04:56,603 --> 01:04:59,272 have our own levee power here at the library. We can have our own levee that we can 661 01:04:59,272 --> 01:05:03,877 control. We can consider raising it. We have a lot of information to explore both 662 01:05:03,877 --> 01:05:11,284 the library fund balance or unspent dollars. We might have alternative ways to be able to 663 01:05:11,284 --> 01:05:15,622 fund the library safety specialist, whether it's within the libraries are even 664 01:05:15,622 --> 01:05:18,225 considering being creative in considering the police budget. They provide public safety. 665 01:05:18,225 --> 01:05:24,231 Are there ways that we might feel the support that that would really? I think the more 666 01:05:24,231 --> 01:05:27,434 was that are more equitable and more fair when we're looking at the ways that the 667 01:05:27,434 --> 01:05:32,372 library budget is disproportionately impacted relative to other departments. 668 01:05:32,372 --> 01:05:36,510 So I'm open to any and all options. I appreciate the discussion today and I know 669 01:05:36,510 --> 01:05:39,646 that we have big challenge ahead of us, but I confident that we'll be able to come up 670 01:05:39,646 --> 01:05:44,584 with solutions so view and the best interest of everyone. So thank you all of you. Thank 671 01:05:44,584 --> 01:05:48,188 you to Director Hartman and thank you to all the staff that put so much effort in 672 01:05:48,188 --> 01:05:52,388 appreciated. And with that, we are adjourned