[0:00] 
[4:27] The beach to order
today is Tuesday.
[4:30] It is March 24, 2026.
[4:32] It is 6 o'clock PM.
[4:34] Let's stand for the
Pledge of Allegiance.
[4:38] I pledge allegiance to the flag
of the United States of America,
[4:43] and to the Republic
for which it stands.
[4:46] One nation under
God, indivisible,
[4:49] with liberty and
justice for all.
[4:51] 
[4:55] City clerk.
[4:55] If you'll please do a roll call.
[4:57] Vice mayor Marriott here.
[4:59] Commissioner Robinson here.
[5:01] Commissioner Resnick here.
[5:02] Commissioner Maldonado here.
[5:04] And Mayor Petrilla here.
[5:06] We have a quorum.
[5:07] Thank you.
[5:08] First item on the agenda is
the approval of the March
[5:11] nine minutes.
[5:15] I have a question about those.
[5:17] Sure and maybe for
help with clarification
[5:21] from city attorney.
[5:22] Just because we've
had a lot of emails
[5:27] and I've had calls about the
motion for ordinance 2020 6-03.
[5:35] I needed clarification
as to what the motion was
[5:39] and what was drawn, because
I feel what's written
[5:43] is not what I voted for.
[5:44] So I just wanted
some clarification.
[5:47] We've distributed
the closed caption
[5:50] from the transcription of the
video stream of the meeting.
[5:55] And it states, is
there a motion.
[5:58] Make the motion to adopt with
modification of 40 foot setback
[6:01] from dwellings, unless variance
and 500 separate 500 separation
[6:06] requirements were possible
and technically feasible
[6:09] without limiting communication
services for the final reading
[6:12] of ordinance 2020 603.
[6:16] And then I said, did you want to
include the additional language
[6:19] about the negotiation period.
[6:21] Everything that's in the citizen
proposal here said, yes, yes.
[6:25] Because again, this goes to
more than just ground equipment.
[6:29] Now this is all supporting
structures and poles
[6:32] and we can do that
as a subsection.
[6:34] It will be a new subsection
for to take their 3
[6:37] and their entire
three paragraphs
[6:39] and make that a new subsection.
[6:41] Absolutely yep.
[6:42] And we'll add in the
500 where possible
[6:44] and technically feasible
without impacting coverage.
[6:47] Is that the final
version of the motion.
[6:49] Yes it is.
[6:50] I'll second to the clerk.
[6:52] Commissioner Maldonado.
[6:53] Yes vice mayor Mariano.
[6:55] Commissioner Robinson.
[6:56] Yes commissioner.
[6:57] Resnick yes.
[6:58] Mayor patella.
[6:59] Yes and then the motion carries.
[7:02] And I think that
the motion maker.
[7:05] 
[7:08] Can discuss the
motion that he made.
[7:11] He did say variance.
[7:13] And I was trying to.
[7:16] Point out that neither the
citizens nor staff was going
[7:19] for variance anymore because
it involved a public meeting,
[7:22] public hearing, which
are not allowed,
[7:24] and public hearing and
public meeting to me
[7:26] mean the same thing.
[7:28] So I took that as yes,
he would substitute
[7:30] the negotiation period that
both the citizen and the staff
[7:32] had in there.
[7:34] And so that's what we took
to prepare the ordinance.
[7:39] Did you want to
change the minutes
[7:41] to reflect this exact language.
[7:43] And I think that
would be appropriate.
[7:45] We could attach
this to the minutes
[7:47] or we could put this
in the minutes itself.
[7:50] So let me ask you, city attorney
or Commissioner to could clarify
[7:57] in that presentation, I
think the words I agree,
[8:01] the negotiation that I clearly
remember that we stated that one
[8:06] of the things that is coming
up is whether it was mandatory
[8:10] or not.
[8:11] So if we take this language,
how it's written here,
[8:15] that means we're removing
whether it's mandatory
[8:19] or encourage that we would just
be saying the modification of 40
[8:23] foot setback from dwellings and
less variance in 500 separation.
[8:27] Correct the staff
proposal always had
[8:29] encourage for both sections.
[8:32] The citizens proposal
was mandatory.
[8:35] Both Verizon and
AT&T wrote letters
[8:38] and stated that mandatory is
preempted by state statutes.
[8:41] And that's why we're
using the word encourage.
[8:43] So it would be
defensible in court.
[8:47] But there was nothing in
the motion to say mandatory.
[8:50] And they were working off
exhibit A, which is the staff
[8:53] alternative language,
changing feet to 40
[8:56] and then adding in
500 as a criteria.
[9:00] Number four in the
second section.
[9:02] 
[9:05] In the presentation, what I
saw was that it was mandatory.
[9:11] Now I know in the wording
we're not using it.
[9:14] So if we exclude
mandatory and exclude,
[9:18] just as it's written right
here with a closed caption,
[9:20] if we remove mandatory
or encourage then
[9:25] it's just 40 setback.
[9:29] So in the citizens proposal
they were proposing mandatory.
[9:32] The citizens presentation
said mandatory staff
[9:35] has never said mandatory.
[9:36] It's been our position
that would violate state
[9:38] law, the state preemption.
[9:40] So we use the word
encourage instead.
[9:43] So we took this as saying
taking the feet and the staff
[9:47] recommendation, which already
had the word encourage,
[9:49] and changing it to 40 and
adding the 500 foot separation
[9:53] requirement to the
second part, and then
[9:57] adding the negotiation
period that we
[9:58] both had in our proposals.
[10:00] But it was my
understanding we were
[10:02] following the staff
language and not
[10:05] adopting the citizen proposal.
[10:09] If we want to change
that, we could,
[10:11] but we would have to go through
the notice and the readings
[10:15] and that can be done.
[10:18] Commissioner Maldonado.
[10:20] Are you done.
[10:21] Yes OK.
[10:22] So yeah.
[10:22] So thank you.
[10:23] I do need to make two
scrivener's errors adjustments.
[10:26] The first would be to
follow the transcripts
[10:29] and remove the
word where it says
[10:32] where technically feasible
before a 40 foot setback.
[10:37] I'd like to substitute
the word variance
[10:42] with a negotiation period
per the citizen's request.
[10:45] Now that we know.
[10:46] And thank you for
clarifying that, sir.
[10:49] And then at the very end, we
need to add, after the 500 foot
[10:56] separation requirements,
where possibly where possible
[11:00] and technically feasible without
limiting communication services.
[11:04] Again, that was for my motion.
[11:05] That's for the transcripts.
[11:06] I want to be
absolutely transparent
[11:09] that that's what was said.
[11:11] So thank you.
[11:13] If you make that motion
then we would get a second
[11:15] and then we would
vote on the change.
[11:17] 
[11:22] Do we have a concurrence.
[11:23] I mean, is that required or
are you going to make a motion.
[11:26] Well, I think in this case,
you should make a motion
[11:28] and have a second and then do
a roll call just because it's
[11:30] a matter of public importance.
[11:32] You meant mandatory.
[11:36] Mandatory point of order.
[11:39] Point of order, Chair.
[11:40] 
[11:42] I'm sorry, sir.
[11:43] You are out of order.
[11:45] I don't care.
[11:46] I want to put this.
[11:47] This is the proof that
he meant mandatory.
[11:49] It's the proof right here, sir.
[11:50] You're out of order.
[11:52] I have the proof.
[11:53] Get back.
[11:53] We're now playing it
like that tonight.
[11:55] You understand.
[11:55] I have to prove.
[11:56] Do you understand me.
[11:57] We're not doing it like that.
[11:58] We have to prove that.
[11:58] Sit down.
[12:00] Are you lying, John.
[12:02] You're a liar, John.
[12:03] Just admit you're a liar.
[12:05] All of us know you
were mandatory.
[12:07] Point of order.
[12:08] I have to prove you can
get him to be quiet.
[12:11] By all means.
[12:13] I see your intent.
[12:15] Is there a motion.
[12:17] Make the motion to adopt with
modification of 40 foot setback
[12:25] from dwellings.
[12:26] Unless a negotiation period
and separation requirements.
[12:33] Where possible and technically
feasible without limiting
[12:36] communication services.
[12:40] And did you have the 500
foot separation requirements.
[12:43] Did you say that I
might have missed it.
[12:45] I did, but I can
restate it if necessary.
[12:47] If you could just want to make
sure it's clear this time.
[12:49] Make the motion to adopt with
modification of 40 foot setback
[12:54] from dwellings.
[12:55] Unless a negotiation period
and 500 separation requirements
[13:01] where possible and technically
feasible without limiting
[13:04] communication services.
[13:09] Second, to be clear, this is
we'll make sure we understand
[13:13] what we're voting on.
[13:15] You are amending the
minutes, not the ordinance.
[13:18] Correct OK.
[13:21] It wasn't clear.
[13:22] That's why.
[13:23] That's correct.
[13:26] Do you want to take public
comment before we do roll call.
[13:32] City clerk.
[13:32] Do we have any public comment.
[13:35] Lauren Jones, please state your
name and address for the record.
[13:42] Lauren I mean, I just
don't understand.
[13:51] I don't understand any of this.
[13:52] Ralph how could you just
change the language when
[13:55] it's not what they voted on.
[13:57] Clearly, for people sitting up
here did not vote in courage.
[14:01] And whether John wants to say it
or not, he voted based I have.
[14:05] Are you showing this.
[14:09] I believe it was
clear that I made
[14:10] the motion based on the
presentation of my attorney.
[14:14] The final reading, with
modifications, 40 foot setback
[14:18] from property was mandatory.
[14:21] John, why aren't you
saying that to the crowd.
[14:23] Why aren't you saying
that to the residents.
[14:26] This is what you meant.
[14:27] This is what you
made the motion on.
[14:28] This is what the three
other people voted on.
[14:31] And, Ralph, how do you
change the language.
[14:33] How are you getting
away with that.
[14:35] I normally don't answer these.
[14:36] But we're going by the
exact verbatim transcript
[14:38] of the meeting.
[14:39] And that's what's being
adopted as the motion.
[14:42] Seconded you put the city
encourages a 40 foot setback.
[14:46] That's not verbatim of what John
said as we just discussed here.
[14:50] You put city strongly
encourages a 40 foot setback.
[14:53] That is not anywhere
close to what John said.
[14:56] I did not add that
was in the exhibit
[14:58] a going into the
meeting, and it came
[15:00] out of the meeting unchanged.
[15:03] No, that wasn't going into
that was in the meeting.
[15:05] That was staff
alternative version.
[15:08] And it in there.
[15:09] And I'm not going to
say anything more.
[15:10] I'm going to let you speak
for your three minutes.
[15:12] You kept I don't answer
questions during public comment.
[15:15] Thanks can I talk.
[15:17] You kept the staff language.
[15:19] It was supposed to change over
to the residents language.
[15:23] Yes, it was, he admits.
[15:25] I have letters upon
letters of John and Betty,
[15:28] and I talked to verbally, Lisa,
that their intent was mandatory.
[15:34] We go back to deny that
because we go by their words
[15:36] and not what might be in their
head if they don't say it.
[15:38] You have to say it.
[15:39] Words were 40 foot setback
unless variance 40 foot setback.
[15:43] How do you get that.
[15:44] Strongly encouraged
is included in that.
[15:47] Where does that come from.
[15:49] Does it just fall
out of thin air.
[15:53] He said 40 foot setback
unless variance and his intent
[15:57] was mandatory.
[15:57] He's not saying that now, but I
have it in writing many letters.
[16:02] OK where does the strongly
encourage fall out of thin air.
[16:06] How do you do that.
[16:08] Is anyone happy that
our city attorney
[16:10] just put in his own language.
[16:13] No we should be outraged.
[16:17] We should be outraged.
[16:20] And, Francis, I'm sorry.
[16:22] You said to me verbatim
several times that you go along
[16:26] and you never question what
the city attorney says.
[16:29] Is that a way to
manage a city that you
[16:32] just blindly follow your staff.
[16:35] What he's doing and what his
law firm is doing is not OK.
[16:39] The ordinance doesn't
reflect the minutes,
[16:42] and the minutes of
two weeks ago does
[16:44] not reflect the
motion and the votes
[16:48] that these four people made.
[16:50] You put words in their mouth.
[16:52] They should be outraged.
[16:54] We're outraged for your time.
[16:58] City clerk Ron Vigneault. If
you please, state your name
[17:04] and address for the record.
[17:08] Yeah Ronald Vigneault
from pass-a-grille.
[17:11] All right.
[17:11] So I'm not going to
tolerate any corruptions.
[17:14] OK I come from Canada.
[17:15] The whole country of
Canada is all corrupt.
[17:18] This is not going to happen
in my new country OK.
[17:21] This country is about freedom.
[17:23] It's about integrity.
[17:25] And, John, you
have no integrity.
[17:28] You're lying.
[17:29] Excuse me, sir.
[17:29] You wrote that letter, sir.
[17:31] Point of order, sir.
[17:32] Point of order.
[17:32] What is that.
[17:33] Personal attacks.
[17:34] When you signed up,
when you signed up
[17:38] on the back of the
card, it clearly
[17:40] shows you will not participate
in personal attacks.
[17:44] So you may say
whatever you want,
[17:46] but you're going to limit
yourself to personal attacks.
[17:48] OK, I'm not going to
do a personal attack,
[17:50] but look on the board, the
media, all the media tonight
[17:54] here.
[17:55] Look, that's a letter that was
written by John to the lawyer.
[18:00] Ralph, that letter says
mandatory, not encouraged.
[18:06] OK, we have that document.
[18:08] I want the media
to cover all this.
[18:10] This is corruptions
from our city.
[18:13] And tonight we're changing.
[18:15] We're changing the people.
[18:16] But what happened that night
two weeks ago is very clear.
[18:22] John was very clear.
[18:24] He wrote in a letter
to the lawyer.
[18:26] He was very clear on
what he was going on.
[18:29] Adrienne was clear.
[18:30] Lisa was clear.
[18:31] And the proof is
that Karen voted
[18:35] against it because
she was thinking
[18:37] there was the word mandatory.
[18:38] She didn't want mandatory.
[18:40] She voted against it.
[18:41] That's the proof right there.
[18:43] And, Ralph what you're doing.
[18:45] You're changing the language.
[18:47] Your job is you're
again, you're starting
[18:51] with the personal attacks.
[18:52] OK well what I mean.
[18:54] I have to say what the fact.
[18:56] Those are facts, Ralph.
[18:57] Your job is to execute.
[19:00] This These people decide.
[19:02] She didn't want it.
[19:04] That's fine.
[19:04] It's a free country.
[19:06] She's allowed to do it.
[19:07] But these people voted for it.
[19:08] For it.
[19:09] And damn right that
they voted for that.
[19:12] You changed the
language in the minutes.
[19:14] It's not there anywhere.
[19:16] There's nowhere in the minute
that it says Anchorage.
[19:21] 
[19:25] Are you shaking your head for.
[19:26] It's the truth.
[19:27] So what's going on, Ralph.
[19:29] I'm going to ask for a
public investigation on this
[19:31] and I'm going to get it.
[19:33] And, Ralph, I'm sorry
if you don't do the job,
[19:36] you're not going to be
working for my city.
[19:38] Let me read, taxpayer.
[19:40] When you're done, I'll read
scandals and corruption
[19:44] in my government.
[19:46] OK, Ralph.
[19:47] Go ahead.
[19:49] Are you done.
[19:49] Yeah listen to you.
[19:51] I'll wait for your
time to end, and then
[19:53] I'll read you the transcript.
[19:54] OK well, let's make
this all very clear.
[19:57] Everybody in this room, we
will not tolerate corruption
[20:02] in our local government, OK.
[20:05] This is very important that we
all stand up And we stop this.
[20:08] Ralph is changing the
language of what was voted.
[20:11] Thank you sir.
[20:13] The exact language, if you
may indulge me because I've
[20:16] been attacked personally.
[20:18] The transcript.
[20:19] The transcript.
[20:20] You may sit down, sir.
[20:21] Thank you.
[20:24] The exact language was.
[20:25] Is there a motion.
[20:27] Make the motion to adopt with
modification of 40 foot setback
[20:30] from dwellings
and less variance,
[20:32] and a 500 separation
requirements
[20:34] were possible and
technically feasible
[20:36] without limiting communication
services for the final reading
[20:40] of ordinance 2020 603.
[20:42] Did you want to include
the additional language
[20:44] about the negotiation period.
[20:46] That's in the citizen
proposal here.
[20:48] Yeah, yeah.
[20:49] Because again, this goes to
more than just ground equipment.
[20:52] Now, now this is all supporting
structures and poles.
[20:55] And we can do that
as a subsection.
[20:57] It will be a new subsection for
to take their three number 3
[21:01] and then entire
number three paragraph
[21:03] and make that a new subsection.
[21:05] Absolutely yep.
[21:06] And we'll add in
the 500 whenever
[21:08] possible and technically
feasible without impacting
[21:11] coverage.
[21:12] That was commissioner
Maldonado's exact words.
[21:15] Is this the final
version of the motion.
[21:17] Yes it is.
[21:17] I'll second to the clerk, and
the motion was then voted upon
[21:20] and carried.
[21:21] So there's the exact words
that we have to go by.
[21:24] And that's the facts.
[21:30] Thank you, sir.
[21:31] City clerk.
[21:32] Rutta Hans.
[21:33] 
[21:40] Can you please state your name
and address for the record.
[21:42] 
[21:45] I've got the transcript here.
[21:46] 
[21:49] There This goes here.
[21:50] 
[21:54] Hans 77, 11;14 away.
[21:57] 
[21:59] And let me see if
I've got this right.
[22:02] 
[22:11] OK, so let me.
[22:13] Here's the verbatim
transcript, please.
[22:16] Oh, here's a
verbatim transcript.
[22:19] Over here, which you've
just heard a bunch of times.
[22:21] My point that I wanted
to make is nowhere
[22:24] in this transcript did anybody
use the word recommended at all.
[22:31] The word recommended is
a material alteration
[22:34] to what was voted on.
[22:35] So the city staff should not
be adding made up language
[22:39] into an ordinance different from
what the commission voted on.
[22:43] And if you look at this
one part in the transcript,
[22:46] it's very clear where it
says everything that is
[22:50] in the citizens proposal here.
[22:52] And Commissioner
Maldonado said yes.
[22:57] And then they discussed
that a little bit further.
[23:01] So based on that transcript,
any reasonable person
[23:04] would conclude the motion
approved by the commissioners
[23:07] reflected everything
that is in the citizens
[23:11] proposal as intended,
specifically,
[23:14] a mandatory 40 foot setback.
[23:16] That's what the
citizens proposal was,
[23:18] a mandatory 40 foot setback.
[23:21] Nowhere did we ever see the
word encouraged over here.
[23:25] And that was in the final
reading of the ordinance.
[23:28] And again, Commissioner
Marriott, she was very clear
[23:31] why she voted no on this
ordinance because of
[23:34] the mandatory 40 foot setback.
[23:36] She was afraid that went
against Florida law.
[23:38] Her point is well taken.
[23:40] And there was discussion about
not wanting to have a lawsuit
[23:43] with the telecom company.
[23:45] Telecom company.
[23:47] So if this ordinance
stays written incorrectly.
[23:50] Now, this exposes the city
to even more liability.
[23:54] A homeowner with a
multimillion dollar property
[23:57] can now claim that
the 5 grams tower
[23:59] reduced their property value.
[24:01] And they're going to
come and sue the city
[24:03] because you don't have
the proper ordinance
[24:06] written on the books.
[24:08] And having the word
recommended offers
[24:11] no real protection on this
in any way, shape, or form.
[24:15] So if the city keeps the
language they voted on,
[24:18] they could find room
to reasonably negotiate
[24:22] with telecom companies
offer a different place
[24:25] to put something.
[24:27] If it's within 40, they could
put it in front of a business
[24:31] where these towers would
not be damaging to somebody
[24:34] sleeping there at night, or
lower their property values.
[24:37] But if we leave
it as recommended
[24:41] and we intended to
say something else,
[24:44] now you're opening yourself
up to even more lawsuits.
[24:46] And that would be
from the residents.
[24:49] That's all.
[24:50] 
[24:55] Thank you.
[24:56] Deborah Schockner.
[24:57] 
[25:03] If you'll please state your
name and address for the record.
[25:07] Good evening, Deborah Schockner.
[25:09] I'll drive in ST ST Pete Beach.
[25:12] I think we need to realign
with what the residents stated,
[25:16] because people who
left here heard that,
[25:19] and many people heard that
recommendation means nothing
[25:23] to the telephone companies.
[25:25] They'll just do
whatever they want.
[25:26] 
[25:29] I would city right now
is fully covered with G5.
[25:34] The entire city.
[25:35] We do not need
even one more pole.
[25:39] Here's the problem.
[25:40] These poles can fall
on somebody's house.
[25:42] And when you don't have a
proper setback, it's one man.
[25:46] It's going to hit him
while he's sleeping.
[25:48] God forbid.
[25:48] 
[25:51] The easements are
owned by the residents,
[25:54] but they're allowed by
ST Pete Beach as a right
[25:57] for utility providers.
[25:59] But we own the land,
and I understand
[26:02] that we are allowed to maybe
make some verifications
[26:08] that people will be safe.
[26:10] And I've driven through
some other cities.
[26:12] They don't have nearly as many
G5's power poles as we do.
[26:19] I've asked residents who've
lived in other cities,
[26:22] they have said the same thing.
[26:24] So why the concentration
in ST Pete Beach
[26:27] and why the threat to
homeowner's property liability.
[26:31] I don't think telecom
company is going to give them
[26:34] the difference between
insurance, because that's now
[26:37] sitting on their property,
and it's possible
[26:39] that insurance
will not even cover
[26:41] it unless you have a writer.
[26:44] So these are very, very serious
questions we need to answer.
[26:48] And quite frankly, it's about
protecting the residents.
[26:51] Thank you.
[26:53] Thank you, city clerk.
[26:55] I have no further
comments on this item.
[26:57] Thank you.
[27:00] We have a motion and a second.
[27:01] City clerk, if you'll
please do a roll call.
[27:04] Vice mayor.
[27:04] Marriott yes, Commissioner.
[27:06] Robinson yes, Commissioner.
[27:09] Yes, Commissioner.
[27:10] Maldonado yes, Mayor.
[27:12] Petrilla yes.
[27:13] The motion carries.
[27:14] Thank you, city clerk.
[27:15] Before we move on
to the installation
[27:17] of elected officials.
[27:18] Commissioner Resnick, do
you have any parting words.
[27:21] Yes thank you.
[27:24] I write them down.
[27:26] I'm an emotional wreck.
[27:27] So, Mayor, fellow
commissioners, staff,
[27:34] and members of the community.
[27:36] 
[27:40] As this meeting marks my final
one serving on this commission,
[27:45] I want to begin by
saying thank you.
[27:48] Serving the city has been one of
the greatest honors of my life.
[27:54] 
[27:57] Local government
is where decisions
[27:59] are closest to the people.
[28:01] And during my time here,
I've had the privilege
[28:04] of working alongside dedicated
colleagues, hardworking staff
[28:10] and residents who are
deeply about our community,
[28:15] even when we disagreed.
[28:17] The shared goal was always the
same to make our city stronger,
[28:22] safer, and more resilient.
[28:26] I also want to recognize the
incredible work of the city
[28:29] staff to our city manager,
Francis Robustelli and your team
[28:37] work every day to turn
policy into action, often
[28:43] behind the scenes and
without any recognition.
[28:47] Your professionalism and
dedication to this community
[28:51] are deeply appreciated.
[28:54] This recent election was
decided by just 36 votes.
[29:00] That's a powerful reminder
that every voice matters
[29:06] that our community
is deeply engaged
[29:09] in the future of this city.
[29:11] It also reflects that many
residents are still navigating
[29:17] real challenges,
especially as our community
[29:22] continues recovering from the
storms like Hurricane Helene.
[29:26] The work of rebuilding,
supporting families,
[29:28] local businesses, our
community, our environment,
[29:32] and strengthening our
resilience must remain
[29:36] a top priority of this city.
[29:39] I respect the outcome
of this election
[29:42] and I congratulate those who
will continue the important work
[29:47] moving forward.
[29:49] I'm proud of what we have
accomplished together,
[29:51] especially during the
difficult moments,
[29:54] including the recovery efforts
following Hurricane Helene.
[29:58] I'm especially grateful
to the first responders,
[30:02] public services on the teams who
showed up day and night to keep
[30:08] our communities safe and
help restore our city
[30:12] when we needed it the most.
[30:14] Public service is
never about one person.
[30:18] It's about the collective effort
of a community that shows up,
[30:22] works together, refuses
to give up on the place
[30:27] we all call home.
[30:29] I also want to thank
our city clerk,
[30:31] Renee rose, and her city staff.
[30:35] I see Jenny out
there for the work
[30:37] you do to keep our
meetings, records
[30:39] and elections running smoothly.
[30:43] Your professionalism helps
ensure transparency and trust
[30:46] in our local government.
[30:48] To my fellow commissioners,
thank you for your service,
[30:52] your commitment to the city,
and for the many thoughtful
[30:55] discussions we've
shared along the way
[30:57] to the residents who supported
me, who volunteered, called,
[31:03] emailed, and shared your
ideas, thank you for trusting
[31:07] me with your voice.
[31:09] And to those who
disagreed with me,
[31:12] I thank you to your
engagement, helped
[31:15] strengthen our discussions and
ultimately made our city better.
[31:20] While my time on this
commission may be ending,
[31:22] my commitment to this
community is not.
[31:26] I will always care
deeply about the city
[31:28] and will continue
supporting the people
[31:30] and ideas that move us forward.
[31:33] Serving the city has truly been
the privilege of a lifetime,
[31:37] and no election results
will ever take that away.
[31:41] Thank you.
[31:41] 
[31:53] I did go up.
[31:55] Yeah, you can wait if you want.
[31:58] Thank you.
[32:00] Thank you, Commissioner Resnick.
[32:02] 
[32:09] Yeah I want to thank
all of our residents.
[32:27] I want to thank all
of our supporters
[32:30] and more so than anyone else I
want to thank our city staff.
[32:34] Could not have done what we've
done in the last three years
[32:36] without your support,
without your help,
[32:38] without your diligence,
the amount of work and time
[32:40] that's been put in.
[32:43] I'm not sure I could do your
job for what you guys get paid.
[32:45] And I know some of you out
there always complain about how
[32:47] much our city staff get paid.
[32:49] By all means, come do the
job for what they get paid
[32:51] and see how long you last.
[32:52] I also want to thank
my commissioners,
[32:55] Commissioner
Maldonado, Commissioner
[32:56] Nikki Robinson and Marriott.
[32:58] While we didn't
always see eye to eye,
[33:01] oftentimes we didn't
see eye to eye.
[33:03] I appreciate your
willingness to serve.
[33:06] I thank you for that.
[33:07] And for those of you
who are coming up next,
[33:09] I also appreciate your
willingness to serve.
[33:12] And with that, I'll say
thank you and goodbye.
[33:16] 
[33:38] Oh, yeah.
[33:38] Sorry and I think my husband
is hiding in the back here, so.
[33:49] 
[34:08] If you want to stand next to
me, then you can face her.
[34:11] There you go.
[34:13] Please raise your right
hand and state after me.
[34:15] State your name.
[34:17] I do solemnly swear.
[34:19] Do solemnly swear that I am a
full time resident that I am
[34:22] a full time resident of
the city of ST Pete Beach,
[34:24] the city of ST Pete Beach
that I will support, protect,
[34:28] and defend the Constitution,
the Constitution and government
[34:32] of the United States,
government of the United States
[34:35] and of the state of Florida, and
of the state of Florida that I
[34:37] am duly qualified, duly
qualified to hold office to hold
[34:41] office under the
Constitution of the state,
[34:43] under the Constitution
of the state
[34:44] and that I will
well and faithfully
[34:46] and that I will well and
faithfully perform the duties.
[34:49] Perform the duties of
Commissioner of Commissioner
[34:51] on which I am about to enter.
[34:54] So help me God, so help me God.
[34:56] Congratulations Thank you.
[34:58] 
[35:15] Sit next to me here
and hold it firmly.
[35:18] Please raise your right
hand and state after me.
[35:20] State your name.
[35:22] Al Causey, do solemnly swear.
[35:24] Do solemnly swear that I
am a full time resident
[35:27] that I am a full time resident
of the city of ST Pete Beach,
[35:31] of the city of ST Pete Beach
that I will support, protect,
[35:36] and defend and defend the
Constitution and government,
[35:40] the Constitution and government
of the United States,
[35:43] of the United States and
of the state of Florida
[35:46] and of the state of Florida,
that I am duly qualified,
[35:49] that I am duly qualified to
hold office to hold office
[35:53] under the Constitution, under
the Constitution of the state,
[35:56] of the state and that I
will well and faithfully
[35:59] and that I will well and
faithfully perform the duties.
[36:03] Perform the duties of
Commissioner of Commissioner
[36:06] on which I am about to enter
on which I am about to enter.
[36:10] So help me God.
[36:11] So help me God.
[36:12] Congratulations OK.
[36:28] 
[36:35] OK please raise your right
hand and state after me.
[36:38] State your name.
[36:39] Scott Tate, do solemnly swear.
[36:40] Do solemnly swear that I am
a full time resident that I'm
[36:43] a full time resident of
the city of ST Pete Beach,
[36:45] of the city of ST Pete
Beach that I will support
[36:47] and that I will support,
protect, and defend and defend
[36:51] the Constitution and government,
the Constitution and government
[36:53] of the United States,
of the United States
[36:55] and of the state of Florida
and of the state of Florida,
[36:57] that I am duly qualified, that I
am duly qualified to hold office
[37:00] to hold office under the
Constitution of the state,
[37:02] under the Constitution
of the state
[37:04] and that I will
well and faithfully
[37:06] and that I will well and
faithfully perform the duties.
[37:08] Perform the duties
of Mayor of Mayor
[37:10] on which I'm about to enter
on which I'm about to enter.
[37:13] So help me God.
[37:14] So help me God.
[37:15] Congratulations Thank you.
[37:16] 
[37:33] Yeah thank you.
[37:59] Appreciate you.
[38:00] Welcome, sir.
[38:00] Thank you sir.
[38:03] 
[38:08] 22 all right.
[38:19] Before we begin with
the official agenda,
[38:21] I want to give Al
the opportunity.
[38:23] If you'd like to make
any remarks, please.
[38:25] Thank you.
[38:26] Mayor I just want to thank our
outgoing members of the board
[38:31] here and all the hours
that they put in,
[38:34] the great benefit that
they brought to this city.
[38:36] And it was absolutely the most
historic of times in our city.
[38:41] And going forward, we will
retire a lot of collaboration.
[38:46] And that's what I'm
going to be all about.
[38:49] I especially want to thank
everyone who helped me
[38:51] along the way for
the last four months
[38:53] and so many different things,
and especially my wife, Julie.
[38:58] You did good, Julie.
[39:01] So I think that's
about it for now.
[39:04] We'll be in
neighborhoods every week.
[39:07] We'll be doing a newsletter
weekly for status and updates,
[39:11] and we'll be building action
groups of 2 and three people
[39:15] to address each
problem that we have.
[39:18] 
[39:21] Thank you.
[39:21] Al Aaron, I know you ran
unopposed, but any statement
[39:24] you'd like to make.
[39:26] No OK.
[39:27] Thank you.
[39:27] The opportunity.
[39:29] All right, so listen, I want to
thank everybody for being here
[39:32] tonight.
[39:34] I want to start by thanking
Adrian for her service
[39:36] of the community.
[39:38] Anyone who serves selflessly
should be appreciated.
[39:41] And I thank him for his service.
[39:44] Betty, I thank you for
your service to district 3
[39:46] and to the community at large.
[39:48] I know as my
commissioner, you're
[39:50] personally involved in
helping not only myself
[39:52] but my community through
the storms of 2024.
[39:55] And I thank you.
[39:58] I'd like to welcome Karen
back to her leadership
[40:01] role and continuing leadership
role for district one.
[40:04] I'd like to welcome again, Al
as he steps into district three
[40:07] commissioner, and I look forward
to working with John, Al,
[40:11] Lisa and Karen as we
work as a commission
[40:15] to improve ST Pete Beach.
[40:18] Let's step back and
thank my family.
[40:19] I'd like to thank my
parents, Ray and Judy Tate,
[40:22] for raising me with ethics,
a love for family and a will
[40:27] to serve your community.
[40:29] I hope I haven't passed
that along to my children
[40:31] Scott, Connor, and Casey.
[40:33] I'm very proud of the young
adults that they've grown into.
[40:36] I'd like to thank
my wife, Lynette.
[40:38] You've been by my side through
it all, thick and thin, even.
[40:41] Not just the ups and
Downs of campaign, but ups
[40:43] and Downs of life.
[40:44] And I love you and I
appreciate you for it
[40:45] to the many friends who I had
before I started this campaign
[40:50] trail and the many, many
more that I've gained
[40:52] along this campaign
trail, I thank you
[40:54] for putting your
trust in my vision
[40:56] for a better ST Pete Beach.
[40:59] I look forward to working
with the community
[41:00] and this commission
and the city staff
[41:03] to fulfill my campaign
promises, mostly
[41:06] to make sure that our city's
policies and procedures are
[41:08] aligned with helping us get
back all of our residents
[41:11] back in their homes quickly, and
get our small businesses back up
[41:14] and running.
[41:15] It's been 18 months.
[41:16] Let's get our community back
quickly back up and running.
[41:21] I want to make sure to pursue
all the revenue opportunities
[41:23] that we can from
both our County,
[41:25] state, and federal partners
and that we use our revenues
[41:28] efficiently, mostly to ensure
that we work on the resiliency
[41:32] of our infrastructure.
[41:34] We can't stop those
next storms from coming,
[41:36] but we can make sure that
we're better prepared
[41:38] and we recover quickly
next time they hit us.
[41:41] Lastly, I look
forward to a return
[41:44] not just to our
homes and businesses,
[41:47] but to that vibrant
ST Pete Beach that's
[41:49] been missing for a while.
[41:51] We can do important
work as a city,
[41:54] and we'll be up here doing
important work for years
[41:56] to come.
[41:59] We can agree on things.
[42:01] We can disagree
agreeably, no matter what.
[42:04] We all want a better
ST Pete Beach,
[42:07] and even if we disagree
on how to get there,
[42:09] we can do it in
agreeable fashion
[42:10] and be respectful
with each other.
[42:12] And while we're doing important
things, we can also have fun.
[42:17] And so let's get back
to that community
[42:18] that's laughs and celebrates.
[42:21] I saw a little bit of it this
past weekend at on Quarry Avenue
[42:25] for the ST Patrick's Day.
[42:26] It was beautiful.
[42:28] And let's have
more fun like that
[42:29] while we do important
things and improve our city.
[42:31] Thank you.
[42:32] 
[42:42] All right.
[42:43] So now we get on to
the city business.
[42:45] And I'll ask Francis and Ray
to just keep me honest on this,
[42:50] but I believe we're going to
the approval of the agenda.
[42:54] And so I'll ask
of the commission.
[42:56] Are there any proposed
changes to the agenda.
[43:00] I do have one for consent.
[43:03] I'd like to pull for discussion
item B. There will be 6B.
[43:13] Yes just a quick reminder that
the consent item, when pulled,
[43:19] will just go directly
after the approval
[43:21] of the consent calendar.
[43:24] And we do have a staff
presentation ready for that.
[43:27] 
[43:30] So we'll pull it out of the
consent but still discuss it.
[43:33] Post with the
staff presentation.
[43:35] Consider the rest of the
consent calendar items
[43:38] that works for me.
[43:40] Any other changes
from the commission.
[43:42] I've got one, sir.
[43:43] I'd like to add ordinance
202603 communication
[43:48] and small wireless
facilities design standards
[43:50] to the discussion items.
[43:52] 
[43:58] OK Others.
[44:05] Karen no.
[44:08] Is there a motion to approve
the agenda, as amended.
[44:13] I move to approve the
agenda, as amended.
[44:16] I second.
[44:18] City clerk, can you
please do the roll call.
[44:20] Commissioner Robinson.
[44:21] Yes, Commissioner.
[44:23] Yes, Commissioner.
[44:24] Maldonado yes, Mayor.
[44:25] Tate yes.
[44:26] Vice mayor.
[44:27] Marion yes.
[44:30] Motion carries.
[44:32] OK thank you very much.
[44:35] I understand we have some
presentations coming forward,
[44:38] and I believe the first one
is Country Thunder update.
[44:41] 
[44:47] Good evening, Mayor
and commission,
[44:49] Mandy Edmonds on the
resident services director.
[44:53] Hi, Mandy.
[44:55] We're going to go ahead and
go through a presentation
[44:57] about our planning and
our permitting process
[45:00] with Country Thunder.
[45:01] The proposed event
happening at Tradewinds.
[45:04] Before I get into
the presentation,
[45:06] I would like to
introduce Kim Blevins.
[45:09] She is the executive
director of Country Thunder.
[45:12] She's going to
come up and explain
[45:14] a little bit about
the event before I
[45:17] get into the presentation.
[45:18] So, Kim, thank you.
[45:20] 
[45:25] Thank you very much
to the commission.
[45:27] And, Mr. mayor, thank you
for having me tonight.
[45:30] And to all of the residents,
I that you're very interested
[45:34] in what I have to say.
[45:36] I'm not going to
speak very long.
[45:38] I think that Mandy has a
really thorough presentation,
[45:41] but I did want to
introduce myself.
[45:44] I am the executive director of
Country Thunder music festivals.
[45:47] And I wanted to give you a
little bit of information
[45:50] about us as a business we've
been in business for 20 years,
[45:54] since, well, 21 now,
since 2005, and we
[45:58] run seven events in various
properties around North America.
[46:03] So we've been doing
this a long time.
[46:06] Every time we go into a
new location like this one,
[46:10] we make an effort to get
involved with the community.
[46:13] And that's one of the reasons
that I'm here tonight,
[46:15] is to hear what everyone has
to say, to answer any questions
[46:20] that people may have,
and just to start
[46:24] becoming part of the
community of ST Pete Beach.
[46:27] And as I've seen already,
it looks like it's a very
[46:33] passionate group of people.
[46:35] So I look forward to that.
[46:38] And yeah, I just wanted to let
we do festivals in Arizona,
[46:43] in Wisconsin, and then
we have four in Canada
[46:47] as well as this one, we have
been doing festivals in Florida
[46:51] since 2019.
[46:53] We used to call Kissimmee home,
and we only left Kissimmee
[46:58] because the property
that was hosting us
[47:01] was going through some changes.
[47:04] We were wiped out by
the same hurricane that
[47:07] affected your community in 2024,
and had to look for a new home.
[47:12] So last year, we approached the
Raymond James Stadium in Tampa,
[47:20] and we held the festival there
in one of their parking lots
[47:23] and great people to work with.
[47:26] Very enjoyable experience.
[47:28] But we found that there's
just so much going
[47:31] through that
particular event space
[47:34] that we couldn't call it home.
[47:36] We didn't have enough of
an impact in that area.
[47:40] So we started looking
for something new,
[47:42] and we had been in
talks with the group
[47:46] from Tradewinds when we
brought our festival to Tampa,
[47:50] and we went to the
Bucs beach bash in 2025
[47:55] and started looking
at the beautiful beach
[47:57] and thought that this might be a
really nice place to call home.
[48:02] We know that we've got
some issues that we
[48:05] face that we have to address.
[48:07] We know that we have to be
good stewards of the property,
[48:12] and we're here to work
directly with your community,
[48:16] not against you.
[48:17] We would love to call this
community home for several years
[48:21] to come.
[48:22] And again, I'm open to meeting
and chatting with anyone
[48:27] and I look forward to
Mandy's presentation.
[48:29] Thank you very much.
[48:31] Can we do questions now.
[48:33] Thank you.
[48:34] Yes sorry.
[48:35] We have a question from
one of the commissioners.
[48:37] Can you please come back up.
[48:38] Thank you.
[48:39] Sorry thank you.
[48:39] That's OK.
[48:41] How in.
[48:43] Well, let me ask you, is what
other venues did you look
[48:45] at other than ST Pete Beach.
[48:48] We've looked at Fort Walton.
[48:51] There were three
properties, and this one,
[48:53] we thought the actual
space on the beach
[48:58] would be conducive to
what our plans are,
[49:02] the way we tend to put
together our properties
[49:06] in very similar manner.
[49:08] So we've got a setup
that we come in with.
[49:10] And we thought that
this particular location
[49:13] worked best for that setup.
[49:17] And how and when
were you made aware
[49:19] of the environmental
and Wildlife concerns.
[49:23] Not until after we had
booked our talent for 2026.
[49:28] So we found out that we were
within the first week of turtle
[49:32] season after that
had happened again,
[49:37] we don't want to
impede on any wildlife.
[49:41] We don't want to
cause any issues.
[49:45] But at this point,
with our talent booked,
[49:49] it's difficult for us to
get out of those dates
[49:53] without a very large penalty.
[49:54] We would have to pay our artists
now to try and move those dates.
[49:58] So we were hopeful that we
can get through this year,
[50:01] move the dates to a different
date off of turtle season
[50:04] and be able to move forward.
[50:06] Are you realize there are other
wildlife than turtles, correct.
[50:11] Correct I do, and
that those dates
[50:13] are actually earlier than
turtle season correct I do, yep.
[50:16] So what dates are you
looking for next year.
[50:18] We haven't decided yet.
[50:19] I thought I heard there
was something we've got.
[50:22] Yeah, we've got a date
on the books for April,
[50:24] the week of the 17th.
[50:26] But that date was
chosen before we
[50:29] became aware of the bird issue.
[50:31] So now we're looking
at what we want
[50:33] to do is get through this
year, then figure out
[50:36] where when we can come back.
[50:40] So you still pick the dates.
[50:41] Regardless, you're still
going with those dates,
[50:43] regardless of whether there's
a nesting season or not.
[50:48] This particular one.
[50:49] Yes Do you normally sell tickets
in advance of securing a venue
[50:55] and that are non-refundable?
[50:57] Pardon me.
[50:58] Do you normally sell
concert or festival tickets.
[51:01] Non-refundable tickets in
advance of securing a venue.
[51:06] No so you do not have a
permit as it stands now.
[51:10] Correct Correct.
[51:11] But you have sold non-refundable
tickets for this venue.
[51:15] Correct yep.
[51:16] Do you have a plan B,
another backup venue.
[51:20] We don't.
[51:20] At this time, we're hopeful
that we'll get our permit.
[51:23] Is that wise to not
have a backup venue.
[51:26] Well, our show in Arizona,
we don't get our permit
[51:29] approved until probably
two weeks before each show.
[51:33] Do they have wildlife
issues in Arizona.
[51:35] No, but they have other
issues that I mean,
[51:37] the permitting
process in Arizona
[51:39] is much more lengthy
than this process
[51:43] and this is the first
community involvement.
[51:47] We're six weeks out and
you've been talking about this
[51:50] and secured your talents when
we actually have to secure
[51:54] our talent a year in advance.
[51:56] So you secured it
a year in advance,
[51:59] knowing that this was going to
be the venue you chose, and this
[52:02] is the first time
you've actually
[52:04] done any community involvement.
[52:06] No, not at all.
[52:07] We've been working through
our partners at Tradewinds.
[52:09] We've been letting them take
the lead on our permit process
[52:14] because they actually
live in the community.
[52:16] OK I don't believe from a
residential resident standpoint,
[52:20] other than talking to the
city, that there has been
[52:24] anything I mean,
the residents are
[52:26] pretty much blindsided by this.
[52:29] Well, we had hoped to
create some communication
[52:32] and provide that
to the residents,
[52:34] but we wanted to wait for the
permit process to be complete.
[52:38] And if it doesn't go
you do not get a permit.
[52:42] What happens then.
[52:44] Then we have to look at
what we're going to do.
[52:47] Because the concern too
is it's nesting season.
[52:50] The problem being, as the
potentially they won't come back
[52:54] or wildlife will not
come back if there's
[52:57] a yearly situation where
it's during nesting season.
[53:01] So you have the option
to move those dates
[53:04] to non nesting season dates.
[53:06] Yes right where if
you did that we'd
[53:08] still get our turtles
and our skimmers
[53:11] and our other
wildlife coming back.
[53:13] And as well, you would get
your crowds coming back.
[53:16] So it's kind of a win-win.
[53:17] Whereas this really isn't a
win-win for environmentally
[53:21] and/or our sea turtles
and our skimmers.
[53:24] Yes and there's been
hundreds and hundreds
[53:26] of hours and volunteer
time to build up
[53:30] and to restore our
dunes and to plant
[53:33] sea oats and everything else.
[53:35] It's a really
special to us here.
[53:38] Absolutely and I just want you
to realize that because this
[53:42] may not be met with a great.
[53:44] 
[53:47] Happy hearts from a residential
standpoint on this, because we
[53:51] do care quite a bit
about our beaches,
[53:54] our wildlife, and
as well the impacts
[53:56] that it has to this community.
[53:58] So what benefit does it
bring to the community, not
[54:01] the businesses.
[54:02] I'm talking the residents.
[54:03] What benefit does it bring to
the residents in this community.
[54:07] Well, we look at it from a
couple of different angles
[54:10] that it's another
entertainment source.
[54:13] And we're also trying to get
involved with local community
[54:16] organizations.
[54:18] I just met with the Cape ST
Pete Beach clean organization.
[54:24] The Tradewinds staff have been
talking to the turtle trackers.
[54:28] I want to get in touch
with the Audubon Society.
[54:32] We're also working with
a group called hurricane.
[54:35] Hurricane helpers that
I believe are helping
[54:38] some of the local
residents in ST Pete Beach
[54:41] rebuild their homes.
[54:42] So this is 6 weeks out and
you're just now talking
[54:44] to these people, or
you're telling me
[54:47] you've been talking
for the last year.
[54:49] No, not for the
last year, but we've
[54:50] been talking for a few months.
[54:52] Yes, absolutely.
[54:53] It's kind of six weeks out.
[54:56] Six weeks out is really a close
time period, as I understand.
[55:00] Yeah OK.
[55:03] And do you value
community support.
[55:08] Absolutely and again
what other benefits.
[55:13] I mean, what benefits are
you bringing to the community
[55:16] to the residents.
[55:18] Well, I mean, it's obvious what
it's bringing to the hoteliers
[55:21] and potentially the
small businesses
[55:25] because those will be the ones
that are open up After hours.
[55:28] Yes because if they're
not opened after
[55:31] your hours at 10:00,
then it's not really
[55:34] going to do them any good.
[55:35] Plus you're bringing
a bunch of people
[55:36] in because well, it made me do
some of the local businesses,
[55:41] some good.
[55:41] If people are coming into
the area earlier before
[55:44] they go to the festival site.
[55:45] Our festival site opens
at 1 o'clock or two
[55:48] o'clock every day, so
they have the opportunity.
[55:50] Plus if they come
in, they can go
[55:53] and go to some of these local
businesses during the day
[55:57] as well.
[55:58] It doesn't have to be
just after 10 o'clock
[55:59] o'clock o'clock o'clock.
[56:00] But the biggest, absolutely, the
biggest thing is going to be,
[56:04] you're selling your own food.
[56:06] So it's a festival environment.
[56:08] I mean, those who haven't
gone to festivals it's almost
[56:11] like an all inclusive resort.
[56:13] You're in there and I
don't do your wristbands
[56:16] allow you to go in and out
or are they one and only.
[56:19] You can go out once
during the day.
[56:22] So if somebody comes
in early and wants
[56:24] to leave and go get lunch or
what have you, they can do that.
[56:26] So one time OK, so
that how many tickets
[56:30] are you looking to sell our
cap for that area is 12,000.
[56:36] I'm hoping for 8 to 10.
[56:38] And how do you
validate those numbers.
[56:42] Just through our
sales, everything
[56:44] goes through our website,
through our ticketing company.
[56:47] And you're looking at this the
application says a yearly event.
[56:53] Is that correct.
[56:54] Yes, that's correct.
[56:55] Have you done any other
beach events before.
[56:57] I have not, no.
[56:58] And any of the companies
you're working with in hiring
[57:01] have they.
[57:01] Our production company.
[57:02] Yes or stage production company.
[57:04] Premier global production.
[57:08] So they've done
shows like tortuga.
[57:10] They've done hangout.
[57:13] They've done several beach
shows over the last 25 years.
[57:17] OK I've worked hang out before,
so I'm familiar with that
[57:22] and the setup as well.
[57:24] So I just want to warn you,
just don't be surprised
[57:30] if you get a large backlash
from the community in regards
[57:33] to this, I understand
because we do value.
[57:36] I mean, we have it
in our Comp plan
[57:38] as taking care of our wildlife.
[57:41] I mean, if it's that
important, we put it in there.
[57:43] Sure no I understand.
[57:45] OK thank you.
[57:46] Thank you.
[57:47] Thank you.
[57:47] Please, Commissioner Maldonado.
[57:49] Hey I call you Kim.
[57:51] Yes, absolutely.
[57:52] Kim, have you considered
having it off the beach
[57:54] on the parking lot side.
[57:57] We have considered that.
[57:59] We're hopeful that we don't have
to do that because that changes
[58:02] a whole range of things.
[58:05] How people enter the site.
[58:07] That sort of thing.
[58:08] So it's a consideration, but
we're hopeful that we don't
[58:12] have to go that direction.
[58:14] So it's a convenience thing.
[58:16] Planning and logistics
versus necessity.
[58:19] No, it has to do with
our ingress and egress.
[58:22] That particular part
of the parking lot
[58:24] is part of our
ingress and egress.
[58:27] It's the biggest, widest walk
path to get to the beach area
[58:32] and we would prefer to use
that as an entrance as opposed
[58:35] to putting our stage there.
[58:36] Who gets the final say on that.
[58:38] I mean, our organizer, our
permit is based off of the maps
[58:44] that we have submitted, and
the maps that we have submitted
[58:47] are the ones that
we've submitted
[58:49] to the city of ST Pete Beach.
[58:50] But ultimately, you're
the decision maker.
[58:54] Yes OK.
[58:55] Thank you.
[58:57] I have one more question.
[58:58] Sorry what is a take permit.
[59:01] An incidental take permit.
[59:04] It has to do with
nesting shorebirds.
[59:06] And it's an incidental
take permit.
[59:10] So from my understanding, from
talking to fish and Wildlife,
[59:15] it's a permit that allows you.
[59:17] How do I put this.
[59:19] 
[59:22] You're not looking to do any
harm to any nesting birds,
[59:26] but if that happens, then
you're not liable for it.
[59:30] So you could kill birds.
[59:32] I don't want to kill birds.
[59:33] No, but.
[59:34] But you could with a take
permit, I guess so, I mean,
[59:36] it's been suggested from
Fish and Wildlife that we
[59:39] submit that permit, so that's.
[59:41] I think that's the
only way you could
[59:42] actually do this festival on the
beach, considering the wildlife.
[59:46] So I don't know that for a
fact, but you would probably
[59:49] know better than I. But yes.
[59:51] So a take permit, an
incidental take permit
[59:54] allows you to do harm to
the birds or the wildlife
[59:59] than endangered wildlife.
[1:00:01] OK I just want to make that
clear that everybody realizes
[1:00:05] that the residents realize that.
[1:00:08] And that's what you're
asking for to happen.
[1:00:12] I'm not asking for it.
[1:00:13] Well, to have this on for us to.
[1:00:16] Well, that's what you have
to have to be able to have
[1:00:18] what you're asking for.
[1:00:20] Yes, but that does not
mean that we are going
[1:00:22] to actively harm any birds.
[1:00:24] No, but you're asking for a
permit to allow that to happen.
[1:00:27] If it does, can we clarify who's
asking for the take permit,
[1:00:30] is it.
[1:00:30] I assume you're not.
[1:00:31] No I'm guessing
it's asked by whom.
[1:00:34] Please so, Department
of Fish and Wildlife.
[1:00:38] Fish and Wildlife.
[1:00:38] That's correct.
[1:00:39] OK thank you.
[1:00:41] I also understand we have
a presentation from Andy.
[1:00:45] Are we ready to go
forward with that.
[1:00:47] Thank you.
[1:00:48] Thanks, Kim.
[1:00:49] Thank you.
[1:00:49] Kim OK, so let's get into
the presentation here.
[1:00:55] Let's give an overview.
[1:00:56] So the overview is
the dates are proposed
[1:00:58] for May 8 through the 10th.
[1:01:00] The venue is Tradewinds
resort and the promoter
[1:01:03] is Country Thunder.
[1:01:04] So the environmental groups
that have been actively working
[1:01:07] on this has been the Audubon
Society sea turtle trackers,
[1:01:11] FWC, which is Florida Fish and
Wildlife, and Florida Department
[1:01:15] of Environmental Protection.
[1:01:18] Pinellas County Sheriff's
OFS will be doing the law
[1:01:20] enforcement at this
event, and the ST.
[1:01:22] Pete Beach Fire Rescue will be
providing emergency services.
[1:01:26] We are also working
the event organizer
[1:01:30] and Tradewinds is working
directly with waste connections,
[1:01:33] and Country Thunder will
have an on site vendor
[1:01:36] for their waste collections.
[1:01:39] So our guiding principles, we
are reviewing our Comp plan
[1:01:43] and our special event permit
guidelines to make sure that we
[1:01:46] are following the process.
[1:01:47] 
[1:01:50] So the permitting
process starts out
[1:01:52] with Tradewinds has submitted a
special event permit to the city
[1:01:56] requesting this concert.
[1:01:58] May 8 through the 10th.
[1:02:00] So when a special event
permit has been submitted,
[1:02:03] the requirements
of the city include
[1:02:05] the traffic plan, a
parking plan, site plan,
[1:02:08] hold harmless agreement and
certificate of insurance.
[1:02:11] Some other things
may be required
[1:02:15] just depending on the size of
the event and the location.
[1:02:18] So in this case, because
the stage is going
[1:02:20] to be constructed on the West
side of the coastal construction
[1:02:26] control volume.
[1:02:27] The permit has then been.
[1:02:30] The applicant has
then been requested
[1:02:32] to obtain a permit
from Florida Department
[1:02:35] of Environmental Protection.
[1:02:38] Dep is also requiring
the applicant
[1:02:41] to address some of the FWC
concerns that has been outlined.
[1:02:45] So they've been actively
going back and forth
[1:02:48] with questions pertaining
to the shorebirds
[1:02:50] and the nesting turtles.
[1:02:53] And they've been
addressing Tradewinds
[1:02:56] and Country Thunder have
been addressing the concerns
[1:02:58] outlined in the DEP request.
[1:03:00] 
[1:03:03] So as of today, Department
of Environmental Protection
[1:03:06] has not issued a permit
and nor has the city.
[1:03:09] The process is because we
have requested the Department
[1:03:12] of Environmental Protection.
[1:03:14] Once we receive
that permit, then we
[1:03:15] will have the go ahead to
issue a special event permit
[1:03:18] depending on the outline.
[1:03:19] 
[1:03:22] This is a subject
to change site map.
[1:03:26] You'll notice that on the
Northeast side of the property
[1:03:30] will be the main entrance,
and on the Southwest side
[1:03:34] will be the main stage.
[1:03:36] The subject.
[1:03:37] This is subject to change.
[1:03:38] We're still working through
some of the logistics.
[1:03:40] And again, it will all go
back to the results of the DEP
[1:03:45] permit and any other
logistical concerns
[1:03:47] that we may come across.
[1:03:51] So some of the
mitigating factors
[1:03:52] that we're going
to go over, we'll
[1:03:54] start with the
environmental portion,
[1:03:56] which is the shorebirds.
[1:03:57] So the city is the city
is not constructing,
[1:04:02] but the city is
designing whatever
[1:04:04] a memorandum of
understanding that
[1:04:07] will be provided to the venue,
as well as to Country Thunder,
[1:04:11] in that it's going to outline
some of the requirements
[1:04:14] from the city.
[1:04:15] It's going to be
capping the sound to 85.
[1:04:18] No drones, no pyrotechnics.
[1:04:20] On site parking for
four Audubon personnel
[1:04:24] hired the Audubon educator with
tent space on the event site.
[1:04:28] Day of event bird monitoring
and Pinellas County Sheriff's
[1:04:31] Office personnel to
assist with enforcement
[1:04:34] of the bird monitoring.
[1:04:36] We have also requested that no
future large scale music events
[1:04:39] occur during Shorebird season.
[1:04:41] 
[1:04:45] The environmental.
[1:04:46] The environmental
portion for the turtles.
[1:04:48] We will continue to have
daily turtle monitoring
[1:04:51] by the sea turtle trackers.
[1:04:52] Bruno falkenstien
is here tonight.
[1:04:55] He is our principal.
[1:04:56] Florida Fish and
Wildlife Commission
[1:04:58] permit holder for ST
Pete Beach identified
[1:05:01] nests will be secured, and
the city requested again
[1:05:04] that no future large
scale events happen
[1:05:06] during the nesting season.
[1:05:08] 
[1:05:11] ST Pete Beach Fire Rescue will
be the lead presence for on site
[1:05:14] emergency operations.
[1:05:16] The Tradewinds will be providing
a suite for the emergency
[1:05:19] operations center.
[1:05:21] Country thunder will be
providing the evacuation plan
[1:05:25] and inclement weather plan, and
provide details to that effect.
[1:05:29] Atvs will be used for in
crowd, medical emergency,
[1:05:33] and the ST. Pete Beach
fire department has already
[1:05:36] designed a tentative staffing
plan based on the site
[1:05:39] layout, which could be changed.
[1:05:41] 
[1:05:44] Pinellas County
Sheriff's OFS will
[1:05:45] be responsible for the
traffic management plan.
[1:05:48] They are in progress
of creating that plan.
[1:05:51] It has not been
submitted to date.
[1:05:53] Ingress and egress management
for the buses and emergency
[1:05:56] services vehicles
will be outlined
[1:05:58] in that plan, as well
as crowd management
[1:06:00] outside of the event zone.
[1:06:02] So outside of the
concert zone, basically
[1:06:05] from County park
to upland beach,
[1:06:07] depending on volume
of participants.
[1:06:11] Residents in they will have
presence in the emergency
[1:06:13] operations center,
and they will also
[1:06:15] have a patrol boat off the
Coast of the Tradewinds beach.
[1:06:21] The traffic plan.
[1:06:22] Again, this is going to
be done by the Pinellas
[1:06:25] County Sheriff's Office.
[1:06:26] It has not been
submitted to date,
[1:06:28] but we are actively
working along
[1:06:30] with Tradewinds and Country
Thunder on all of this.
[1:06:33] So some of the initial concerns
that were identified was
[1:06:35] the traffic signal management
on 75th Ave at Boca ciega,
[1:06:39] blind pass, and Gulf Boulevard.
[1:06:42] We also have discussed
closing the left
[1:06:44] turn lane on mangrove and 75th
and closing the left turn.
[1:06:48] Cut through access on blind
pass, Boca ciega and Gulf winds.
[1:06:53] And there's been discussion
around traffic flow management
[1:06:55] during peak times
on Gulf Boulevard.
[1:06:57] The peak times right
now has been determined
[1:06:59] to be 4:00 PM to 7:00 PM.
[1:07:03] And then when we say the left
turn signal, and the left,
[1:07:06] it's going to reverse at
the conclusion of the event.
[1:07:11] 
[1:07:13] Transportation and parking.
[1:07:15] So plans have not been
submitted to date.
[1:07:16] But again, we are actively
working with Tradewinds
[1:07:19] and Country Thunder, who is
actively working with the Tampa
[1:07:23] Bay Rays to secure Tropicana
Field as their primary parking
[1:07:27] location.
[1:07:28] They will have shuttle buses to
and from the Tradewinds event
[1:07:31] site.
[1:07:32] A rideshare drop off at rum
rum fish property and the city
[1:07:37] will increase parking
enforcement that weekend.
[1:07:39] 
[1:07:42] Waste services again actively
working with waste connections.
[1:07:45] Country thunder.
[1:07:46] Tradewinds so this has not
been submitted to date,
[1:07:49] but we did have discussions that
waste connections will provide
[1:07:52] 30 yard dumpsters, 8
yard dumpsters, and trash
[1:07:55] toters for the event site.
[1:07:58] There will be a
third party company
[1:07:59] to be used for the daily
trash collections on site,
[1:08:03] as well as the nightly sweep
and cleanup for the next day.
[1:08:06] Morning dumpster pickup will
happen before the gates open,
[1:08:10] and then the city is requesting
additional 8 yard dumpsters
[1:08:13] to be placed on Upham beach,
or to be placed on the beach
[1:08:16] between Upham and County park,
similar to what we currently do
[1:08:19] for any kind of 4th
of July activities,
[1:08:23] so additional city
staff will be provided
[1:08:25] for extra trash collection
outside of the event zone.
[1:08:28] We'll be working with them.
[1:08:29] 
[1:08:33] Business support for economic
development opportunities.
[1:08:35] So may is traditionally a
slower hotel occupancy time.
[1:08:40] So that's going to be a
direct benefit to Tradewinds
[1:08:45] and other hoteliers.
[1:08:47] Indirect benefits will
include the local businesses
[1:08:50] serving visitors.
[1:08:51] So retail restaurant,
bars any of those kind
[1:08:54] of auxiliary locations.
[1:08:56] And then the induced will
be the temporary employment
[1:08:58] non event related spending.
[1:09:01] So we're increasing synergy
across small business community.
[1:09:05] We will also have
national brand visibility
[1:09:07] and recognition in both
earned and organic media.
[1:09:11] Another benefit will be the
attraction of future talent
[1:09:14] and investment.
[1:09:15] That could be
additional businesses
[1:09:18] that may come to ST Pete
Beach, or maybe some residents
[1:09:21] that come for the
event and then love it
[1:09:23] so much they just want to stay.
[1:09:24] 
[1:09:27] City communications.
[1:09:28] So this will be led
by Mark Portugal.
[1:09:30] He is our
communications manager.
[1:09:32] There will be multi-channel
updates as plans progress.
[1:09:35] Public awareness around the
environmental stewardship
[1:09:39] reinforce the parking and
transportation restrictions.
[1:09:42] Will work closely with
the marketing manager
[1:09:44] through with Country Thunder.
[1:09:48] We'll have reminders of
Country Thunder event rules
[1:09:50] and regulations, and
respond to and redirect
[1:09:53] media inquiries
before and/or the days
[1:09:56] leading up to the event.
[1:09:58] So we'll also be in the position
to support the city manager
[1:10:01] and city commission as needed.
[1:10:05] So the next steps.
[1:10:06] We are still waiting on
the DEP permit approval.
[1:10:10] Then that would trigger the
special event permit approval
[1:10:15] issuance of the memorandum
of understanding to the event
[1:10:18] organizer and venue.
[1:10:20] And then calculate and
submit the reimbursement
[1:10:22] costs for all city
resources used so
[1:10:24] Sheriff, Fire Rescue
public services, and such.
[1:10:29] So with that, I
will take questions.
[1:10:32] 
[1:10:35] What is the projected
attendance of non-ticket holders
[1:10:42] that we haven't really
had the discussion around.
[1:10:47] I'm not sure if in
other events, if that's
[1:10:50] something that's come about.
[1:10:52] Do you ever one of our events
we have the perimeter fenced.
[1:10:58] We have very small
number of not even
[1:11:01] 100 people that will come and
try and look through the fence.
[1:11:04] This entire property
will be fenced
[1:11:05] for the duration of the event.
[1:11:07] There will be no.
[1:11:08] No way, unless you're
staying at the hotel
[1:11:10] to be able to see
the performances.
[1:11:14] So in our experience, we
haven't had a ton of people
[1:11:19] try and help them.
[1:11:21] Can I ask please just I
appreciate you answering.
[1:11:24] If you answer, if you come
up so we can get on record,
[1:11:26] on the mic, if you can.
[1:11:27] So yeah, if you can paraphrase
but so next time please come up
[1:11:32] please.
[1:11:32] And just.
[1:11:32] Yeah thank you.
[1:11:33] What Kim was saying
is that basically
[1:11:35] the whole property, the event
zone is going to be fenced in.
[1:11:39] So it really will deter people
from standing outside along
[1:11:42] and then along the water line.
[1:11:44] They're going to try to keep
people moving and flowing
[1:11:46] through so that
we have an active,
[1:11:47] we have an open lane for
people to be able to walk
[1:11:50] through and traverse.
[1:11:52] But it is customary
use and it is a beach.
[1:11:54] It is.
[1:11:54] So it is there.
[1:11:56] There is public that
can be outside of those.
[1:11:59] And the stages are
high and the fences
[1:12:02] aren't as high as the stage
is and the sound travels.
[1:12:06] So there will be a
significant I would
[1:12:10] say, a outside draw to this.
[1:12:14] What plans are made to
accommodate that outside draw.
[1:12:19] Well, we're going to we've
asked Pinellas County
[1:12:22] Sheriff's Office to
increase staffing
[1:12:24] outside of the event zone.
[1:12:27] Who's that paid by.
[1:12:29] That will be paid by Country
Thunder and Tradewinds.
[1:12:32] They'll work on the
payment through them.
[1:12:36] But that's what we're basically
trying to move people along,
[1:12:40] trying to prevent people from
just kind of hanging out there
[1:12:44] and trying to get a free
show and open beach.
[1:12:48] So there will be people
set up and they will be
[1:12:51] trying to listen to the event.
[1:12:52] And are there any
arrangements for that.
[1:12:55] Country thunder is providing
portlets or porta potties
[1:12:59] and anything else outside
of the festival grounds
[1:13:02] for that overflow
attendance, because as we all
[1:13:06] know that live here,
people park near our yards.
[1:13:09] They park on our sprinkler
heads when they pull up
[1:13:14] and they leave their trash
and amongst other things
[1:13:19] that they do.
[1:13:21] So I just want to
be prepared for that
[1:13:24] and to have limited
if any of that.
[1:13:27] We have started
communications with that.
[1:13:29] We did talk about adding
additional portlets, maybe
[1:13:33] at the North end
of the Tradewinds,
[1:13:35] and possibly even at Upham
beach and County park
[1:13:38] to funnel people to those areas.
[1:13:40] We figure that's where
people will go most.
[1:13:42] So we are still working through
that with that logistics,
[1:13:45] with Country Thunder and
Tradewinds and as well, Corey,
[1:13:50] because I can imagine Corey
might get some overflow as well.
[1:13:53] Corey possibly as well.
[1:13:54] So yes, it's
something that we're
[1:13:56] still in the planning process
of and it will be addressed.
[1:13:59] Well, it's just six
weeks out, so planning
[1:14:00] is going to get of short soon.
[1:14:03] OK thank you Mr.
Marriott thank you.
[1:14:09] Thanks, Mandy.
[1:14:09] I appreciate the
presentation and.
[1:14:11] And I appreciate you and the
rest of your staff's hard work
[1:14:14] on this.
[1:14:14] And thanks, Kim, for
coming and speaking to us.
[1:14:18] I have not so much questions
as just a couple of comments
[1:14:23] to make about it.
[1:14:25] I think that it is absolutely
unfortunate that this
[1:14:31] is happening in turtle
and Shorebird season,
[1:14:35] but large events on ST. Pete
Beach are not unheard of either.
[1:14:38] And so, I think in the
past, in 2017 and 2018,
[1:14:44] when the trade winds did
bike fest I think it was six
[1:14:48] to $7,000 people attending per
day with the addition of having
[1:14:53] to have lots of motorcycle
trailers parked all over
[1:14:56] the city and having a motorcycle
ride similar to the toy
[1:15:00] run that we have at Christmas.
[1:15:01] That happened all
through the city
[1:15:03] and over the Skyway
and back and concerts
[1:15:08] with big name
folks on the beach.
[1:15:10] And that happened in November.
[1:15:13] So we were outside of some
of the environmental issues
[1:15:15] we're running into here.
[1:15:17] But my recollection
of those events
[1:15:20] is that for residents
who lived in the city,
[1:15:23] it was very much a non-event,
other than the sound
[1:15:27] of motorcycles going up
and down Gulf Boulevard.
[1:15:29] It wasn't a disaster of epic
proportions by any stretch.
[1:15:38] It was mostly unnoticeable.
[1:15:42] And so I think this
event is potentially
[1:15:46] going to be a little
bit bigger than that,
[1:15:48] but certainly not double.
[1:15:50] And, many of the folks
I've talked to are,
[1:15:57] there's always a possibility
with some kind of big event
[1:15:59] that something can go wrong.
[1:16:00] But I think most people
that I've spoken to
[1:16:02] are very cautiously
optimistic that this is going
[1:16:05] to be a really neat event.
[1:16:07] It's exciting to have
it happen in the city.
[1:16:09] I'm excited that there's
resident a pretty discounted
[1:16:13] resident rate for tickets.
[1:16:15] So I hope that the people who
live here take advantage of that
[1:16:19] and walk over to the beach and
buy have your discounted ticket
[1:16:24] and go enjoy the concert.
[1:16:27] In addition to the bike fest
that's happened in the past,
[1:16:30] the Bucs bash that happens every
summer, I think has around four
[1:16:34] or 5,000 people that attend.
[1:16:37] Also with no drama
that I've ever,
[1:16:40] ever recall hearing of in
any way, shape, or form.
[1:16:44] So I think a lot of the
fears are because it's new
[1:16:49] and that's always concerning.
[1:16:52] But it's certainly
not unprecedented.
[1:16:55] One thing I did want to mention
that I think as a commission we
[1:16:58] might want to discuss is that
with the potential of lots
[1:17:01] of traffic coming into the city
and people looking for places
[1:17:04] to park, because I know that
as much as the organizer
[1:17:07] will encourage people
to park elsewhere.
[1:17:09] If I were coming from
somewhere else in ST Pete
[1:17:12] and I lived closer to the beach
than I lived to Raymond James it
[1:17:14] would be, or to
Tropicana Field, you'd
[1:17:16] be hard pressed to
make me drive there
[1:17:18] and ride a shuttle bus out here.
[1:17:20] But what we do have is we
have a lot of privately owned,
[1:17:25] underutilized parking
lots in ST Pete Beach.
[1:17:28] And if we could allow just for
the special event for everybody
[1:17:32] who owns a parking lot to run
a parking lot that they sell
[1:17:36] spaces in, instead of having all
those parking lots sit empty,
[1:17:39] we could probably alleviate
a lot of the cars that drive
[1:17:42] onto the beach and drive around
looking for a place to park
[1:17:45] or try to park in neighborhoods.
[1:17:48] So I think we have
some mechanisms
[1:17:50] at our disposal
to help alleviate
[1:17:52] some of those problems.
[1:17:53] So that's really it.
[1:17:55] Thank you very much,
Mandy, I appreciate it.
[1:17:56] Yeah thank you.
[1:17:57] Commissioner
commissioner Maldonado,
[1:18:00] I'd like to hear from Bruno
Falcon seen a little bit
[1:18:04] about his concerns, if
any, regarding the turtles
[1:18:07] and the turtle watch program.
[1:18:09] What you're going to be
doing to support this.
[1:18:10] Thank you man.
[1:18:11] If you'll stay, I have some
questions for you past that,
[1:18:13] but let's hear from Bruno.
[1:18:14] 
[1:18:18] Bruno Falkenstein
I don't know if I
[1:18:20] should use the property that
we have for my home address.
[1:18:23] I'm just going to
use 109th Avenue.
[1:18:26] It's turtles are rather strange.
[1:18:29] I checked today, I wanted to
find out if there's any nesting
[1:18:33] on the West Coast of Florida.
[1:18:34] There is not.
[1:18:36] Let me give you
a little history.
[1:18:38] Turtles generally will start
coming in by water temperature.
[1:18:42] It's more water temperature
than anything else.
[1:18:45] For instance, in 2010 was one of
the coldest days or the coldest
[1:18:50] water temperature we had.
[1:18:53] It was 62.1 degrees
this time of the year.
[1:18:57] We did not get a
nest until July.
[1:19:00] We had no idea why other than
the water temperature today.
[1:19:06] Yesterday the water
temperature was 70.
[1:19:09] Crazy The water
temperature today is 69.
[1:19:12] You can't.
[1:19:13] You can't tell.
[1:19:14] The warmest it's been
for the month of May
[1:19:17] was in 220, where the
water temperature was 76.6.
[1:19:25] April's average is 75.
[1:19:28] The minimum is usually 64.
[1:19:30] The maximum is usually 80.
[1:19:32] That's the range.
[1:19:33] May the.
[1:19:35] The average is usually 80.1.
[1:19:38] Usually our nesting
starts somewhere
[1:19:40] around the 20th of May.
[1:19:43] The minimum was 73.6.
[1:19:46] That was back in
2010, and the maximum
[1:19:48] has been as high as 89.1.
[1:19:52] And where the turtles
are going to come up.
[1:19:54] Take a handful of sand.
[1:19:56] Throw it up in the air.
[1:19:57] We have no idea.
[1:20:01] I would like to think
that in the past,
[1:20:06] the one thing that I
did forget to thank
[1:20:08] is that I'd like to thank the
city and all the commissions
[1:20:12] that I've dealt with,
because I have been allowed
[1:20:15] to use ST Pete Beach
since 1971, excuse me, 79,
[1:20:20] to do turtle studies.
[1:20:22] And if any of you
ever have the time
[1:20:25] and I know this is
all subject, and would
[1:20:27] you like to come out
and learn a little bit.
[1:20:28] I have to warn you,
it's addictive.
[1:20:31] I don't know what
else I can tell you.
[1:20:34] Please, if you have
any other questions.
[1:20:36] Once a turtle nest
is in the ground,
[1:20:39] the danger is when the turtle
comes up to lay her eggs.
[1:20:42] That's when she can get spooked.
[1:20:44] If she's already laid her
eggs and are on the ground,
[1:20:47] they're very safe until
right before they hatch.
[1:20:50] So that's not the problem.
[1:20:51] The problem is if
people bother them.
[1:20:55] I've been requested
to possibly have
[1:20:57] some personnel around
starting right at sunset.
[1:21:02] They said 10:30.
[1:21:03] I would rather have people
staying around till about 11:30
[1:21:06] that night, just to make
sure if any nesting turtles
[1:21:09] do come up in that area.
[1:21:11] No one's there to bother them.
[1:21:13] What else can I answer for you.
[1:21:16] You've done an incredible
job right there alone.
[1:21:18] I've learned 1,000 more
than I knew two minutes ago.
[1:21:22] So thank you, Bruno.
[1:21:23] Well thank you.
[1:21:25] Yeah good question.
[1:21:26] Sorry please.
[1:21:26] Were you done.
[1:21:27] You say.
[1:21:27] And who do we need to coordinate
with to extend the time.
[1:21:30] Well, today I had a
call from Mark Boyer,
[1:21:33] and that's from the Tradewinds.
[1:21:36] And he was outlining some of
the state's recommendations.
[1:21:41] As a matter of fact, the
state had no recommendations.
[1:21:44] We had a big meeting
two weeks ago,
[1:21:46] and I questioned them on this.
[1:21:48] And they my comment to you
guys is this through the years,
[1:21:55] one event would happen
under certain requirements.
[1:21:58] The next event would
come along and it
[1:22:00] would be completely different.
[1:22:01] Another event would
come along and that
[1:22:02] would be completely different.
[1:22:04] So really, it's
almost whoever up
[1:22:06] in Tallahassee is monitoring
this and they are monitoring it.
[1:22:11] OK thank you.
[1:22:12] Yeah thank you.
[1:22:14] And once again, thank you
very much for everything.
[1:22:16] Thank you sir.
[1:22:17] 
[1:22:19] Thank you.
[1:22:20] I did fail to mention too
that we do have Doctor.
[1:22:25] Sorry sorry sorry.
[1:22:26] We do have Doctor forys here.
[1:22:29] She is from Eckerd college and
she is a seabird and Shorebird
[1:22:33] expert too as well.
[1:22:34] We have additional questions.
[1:22:36] Thank you.
[1:22:38] Does Doctor Shorey have
any comments for us
[1:22:39] or just if we have questions,
you're here to help.
[1:22:42] Sure she could.
[1:22:44] Yeah Same thing.
[1:22:47] Yeah give us your perspective
on the impact here, please.
[1:22:52] Hi I've been studying the
seabirds on our beaches
[1:22:56] for the past 34 years, and they
have been at ST. Pete Beach
[1:23:00] since 2013.
[1:23:02] Obviously, a long time ago,
back in the seconds and 40s,
[1:23:05] this was the biggest County,
the biggest colony in the state.
[1:23:08] Now it's the second
biggest colony.
[1:23:10] And so it's 10% of the Black
skimmers nest on ST. Pete Beach.
[1:23:15] And there's some of the
most successful ones.
[1:23:18] Last year they started
nesting in late April.
[1:23:21] And if that happens, I have
no idea if they will stay
[1:23:27] or if they will abandon.
[1:23:29] More likely, they'll try to nest
around the time of the festival
[1:23:32] and they will probably be
delayed in their nesting.
[1:23:36] So then it pushes them
more into hurricane season.
[1:23:42] So I have a hard time imagining
this is such a big event.
[1:23:45] I have nothing
analogous to compare it
[1:23:47] to because most
towns like this don't
[1:23:50] approve situations like this.
[1:23:52] I've seen the hangout out
photos of that big festival,
[1:23:57] but that's the only beach party
this big I can find anywhere.
[1:24:02] And that's a big City Beach.
[1:24:03] It's not a more
natural area like this,
[1:24:06] so there's just nothing
to compare this to.
[1:24:08] But I am a little bit worried
about all the fire trucks.
[1:24:10] What if somebody gets hurt.
[1:24:12] One year we had a
skimmer colony and it
[1:24:14] was the year the fireworks
went the wrong way.
[1:24:16] And they hit a
bunch of the hotels
[1:24:19] and the fire trucks
ran through the colony,
[1:24:22] and we lost every single bird.
[1:24:24] So I'm kind of nervous about
something like that happening.
[1:24:27] OK thank you.
[1:24:28] 
[1:24:31] Mandy, I have a few
questions for you, please.
[1:24:33] 
[1:24:37] The total beach area
behind the Tradewinds.
[1:24:40] How many quarter mile.
[1:24:41] Half mile do we know.
[1:24:42] The total distance
of the beach area
[1:24:45] of the site Really of
the event site area
[1:24:49] 9 acres, 9 acres 9 nine acres.
[1:24:53] OK, I'm turning my head to
figure out if that's a quarter
[1:24:55] mile of our seven or
eight miles worth of beach
[1:24:58] or is it something different.
[1:25:00] I'm trying to figure out
what percentage of our beach
[1:25:02] we have to protect, if
you will, in this event.
[1:25:04] So I'd like to just understand
the percentage of our beach
[1:25:06] that could potentially
be impacted.
[1:25:08] And then I know you mentioned
that we were going to identify
[1:25:13] the I'll speak to
the turtle nest
[1:25:16] because I saw at least
an image of the turtles
[1:25:18] with the signs around them, or
at least the tape around them.
[1:25:21] I assume if we identify
any they're there.
[1:25:23] The intent would be to obviously
identify and Mark them off.
[1:25:27] And then how do we guard them.
[1:25:28] Let me make sure that
it's not just a mark.
[1:25:30] Will somebody be watching to
make sure that if that occurs,
[1:25:33] that they're watching to make
sure that they're guarded,
[1:25:35] they will.
[1:25:36] I believe when I spoke to
the Tradewinds earlier,
[1:25:38] they did say that there would
be a turtle monitor out there.
[1:25:42] So that will be in the
evening to protect the nests.
[1:25:45] And then I'm sure if
there's a nest out there
[1:25:47] that we'll work closely with
Bruno and the permit holders
[1:25:50] to make sure that the
nests are properly
[1:25:52] protected during the event.
[1:25:53] OK thank you.
[1:25:54] And then one more
question for you.
[1:25:56] A little more on
the side of cost,
[1:25:58] because I heard the
question come up earlier,
[1:26:01] any costs that the
city incurs to this
[1:26:04] is that as a result of
Country Thunder, or is
[1:26:07] it reimbursable
back to the city.
[1:26:08] Every bit of it.
[1:26:09] It will be.
[1:26:10] So what we'll do is
as I mentioned in one
[1:26:12] of the previous slides,
we will go ahead
[1:26:14] and we'll calculate
everything that it costs to go
[1:26:17] ahead and put this event on.
[1:26:18] And then we would submit that to
Country Thunder and Tradewinds
[1:26:21] to reimburse the city
inclusive of protection costs
[1:26:24] as well if needed.
[1:26:25] OK Very good.
[1:26:27] Thank you.
[1:26:27] I think that answers
my questions.
[1:26:30] I've got a follow up question
for MS Kim if you'd come up.
[1:26:35] Thanks, Mandy.
[1:26:36] 
[1:26:39] And again, I apologize if it
seems like we're putting you
[1:26:42] on the spot and if in any way
this comes across as accusatory,
[1:26:47] it's not.
[1:26:47] It's just a conversation.
[1:26:49] Sure have you considered
donations to both
[1:26:53] the turtles and the birds.
[1:26:56] You have.
[1:26:56] As of right now, $2
from each of our tickets
[1:26:59] is going directly
to turtle trackers.
[1:27:02] We haven't yet
figured out what we
[1:27:05] can do with whichever society,
whether it's the Audubon Society
[1:27:11] or another organization.
[1:27:13] But yes, we have done
that in the past.
[1:27:15] We support charitable
organizations
[1:27:18] in all of our communities
that we work with.
[1:27:20] So, yes, and that's
very generous of you.
[1:27:23] Also appreciate the fact that
your capped the decibels at 85.
[1:27:28] I understand that that's
a pretty big deal.
[1:27:30] It is.
[1:27:31] And the only reason that
we're able to agree to that
[1:27:34] is because we also have an inner
city festival up in Canada,
[1:27:38] and it's an 85 decibel
cap at that show as well.
[1:27:44] Very good.
[1:27:44] Wonderful Thank you.
[1:27:46] One more for you, please,
while you're here.
[1:27:49] The events in time.
[1:27:51] I understand it's
10:00 PM sharp.
[1:27:53] And so I think we have
a city ordinance that
[1:27:55] says music stops at
10:00 PM outdoors,
[1:27:58] roughly translating that.
[1:27:59] So you'll be done within the
city's ordinances of time frames
[1:28:02] as well.
[1:28:02] Thank you.
[1:28:04] Yes OK.
[1:28:06] Anybody else before I go.
[1:28:08] No, but you might hang out.
[1:28:09] We normally don't
always take comments
[1:28:12] on these types of
presentations, but I
[1:28:14] understand there is
some audience commentary
[1:28:16] associated with this.
[1:28:17] And as a matter of fact, we
have audience comments coming up
[1:28:19] in just a few moments anyway.
[1:28:21] So I'll entertain any questions
associated with Country Thunder.
[1:28:26] Renee, if you have any that
are associated with it.
[1:28:28] Cindy Perry.
[1:28:29] 
[1:28:35] Thank you, Mr. Perry.
[1:28:36] Please state your name and
address for the record.
[1:28:39] Cindy Perry 11:26 Boca ciega.
[1:28:42] I'll drive.
[1:28:44] I want to make sure that I am
speaking as a private resident
[1:28:48] and a black skimmer
advocate, and nothing
[1:28:51] to do with the planning board.
[1:28:54] I have one word to say
about this presentation
[1:28:58] and that word is unbelievable.
[1:29:01] What's unbelievable.
[1:29:04] It's unbelievable.
[1:29:05] After all the years the trade
winds has been on ST. Pete Beach
[1:29:09] that they don't know
about nesting season.
[1:29:13] I guess it's easier to get
an incidental take permit.
[1:29:17] It's unbelievable that
Country Thunder doesn't seem
[1:29:20] to have a project manager to
assure that plans are complete
[1:29:25] this close to an event.
[1:29:28] I can tell you, as a retired
project management professional
[1:29:32] certified by the Project
Management Institute,
[1:29:35] I would have been fired if
things were this incomplete.
[1:29:38] So close to an implementation.
[1:29:41] Fire rescue staffing
planned to be determined.
[1:29:44] Pinellas County
Sheriff's Office.
[1:29:46] Traffic management
plan and progress.
[1:29:48] Transportation
and parking plans.
[1:29:51] Waiting for contract
from the Rays, et cetera.
[1:29:54] You've all heard
the presentation,
[1:29:56] so I won't go on about
the current status,
[1:29:58] but apparently they
don't even have a project
[1:30:00] manager to present
their project and it
[1:30:02] has to be done by City staff.
[1:30:05] I just don't
understand this at all.
[1:30:08] I do have a couple of
recommendations for you.
[1:30:11] The black skimmer colony
should be monitored 24/7
[1:30:14] hours a day through the event.
[1:30:16] It's not unusual for people
to take early or late
[1:30:18] walks along the beach.
[1:30:20] And even if the colony is roped
off, there's nothing to say.
[1:30:23] People won't go in there.
[1:30:25] And for the reimbursement
costs for all city resources
[1:30:29] and the project management
that we're providing,
[1:30:32] we should make sure that there
are estimated dollar amounts
[1:30:35] in a contract or the permit,
including the ability
[1:30:38] to increase amounts if needed,
when actual costs are tabulated.
[1:30:42] And finally, I
asked the city not
[1:30:46] to issue a permit
until all concerns
[1:30:49] are satisfactorily addressed.
[1:30:52] It feels like this
is being jammed
[1:30:54] through with information
to be provided
[1:30:56] at the last possible minute.
[1:30:58] An alternative plan
could be plus the people
[1:31:01] from the Tradewinds to
Tropicana field for this event.
[1:31:05] According to the Tropicana
Field upcoming events website,
[1:31:09] those dates are available.
[1:31:10] Thank you.
[1:31:12] Thank you for your comments.
[1:31:15] Other comments.
[1:31:16] Dana Richardson.
[1:31:17] 
[1:31:29] Oh, this is going to be fun.
[1:31:32] Welcome, Mr. Tate.
[1:31:34] Thank you.
[1:31:35] Name and address please.
[1:31:36] For the record.
[1:31:36] Sorry pardon.
[1:31:37] Name and address for the record.
[1:31:38] Dana Richardson, 5830
Bahama way South.
[1:31:42] Thank you.
[1:31:42] Dana OK, so I have to apologize.
[1:31:45] I was hoping other people
that are more educated
[1:31:48] are speaking before me.
[1:31:50] I don't have a printer.
[1:31:52] I'm living in a stupid
little apartment.
[1:31:54] It's been a year
and a half, and I'm
[1:31:56] gave up my date night after two
months of working to be here.
[1:32:01] Because it's that important.
[1:32:04] I don't understand how
we get to this place
[1:32:06] and why the city works so hard
to make this event work when it
[1:32:11] clearly goes against
state and federal laws
[1:32:17] for the protection of turtles.
[1:32:20] I see that on November
it was November 5.
[1:32:24] I apologize, I can't see
Mark Boyer from Tradewinds
[1:32:28] on November 5 stated,
and he signed off.
[1:32:32] He would not
advertise this event
[1:32:35] that for the special before
the special event permit
[1:32:38] has been approved by City
staff and commission.
[1:32:42] And here we are again,
Tradewinds being the bully.
[1:32:45] And I can trust you.
[1:32:46] They will file a lawsuit against
us if this doesn't go through.
[1:32:51] He does not.
[1:32:52] Tradewinds does not adhere to
what they say that they'll do.
[1:32:56] They've made that very clear.
[1:32:58] The Florida FWC on
December 23 put out
[1:33:04] that they I got to get to it,
that they want the event in so
[1:33:10] many words to be moved to a
different venue or different
[1:33:14] dates because of our turtles.
[1:33:17] Why are we working so
hard to make this work.
[1:33:21] I live in District 2.
[1:33:22] I live across from Tradewinds.
[1:33:24] We already have issues with
parking in our neighborhood
[1:33:28] during the weekends.
[1:33:30] When you say it's
peak between 4 and 7.
[1:33:32] That's not right.
[1:33:34] On the weekends we are.
[1:33:35] We are overloaded
with day trippers
[1:33:37] and we have people parking
in our neighborhoods.
[1:33:41] And I can't imagine.
[1:33:42] 14 days to set up.
[1:33:44] And break down with
Semis and buses.
[1:33:46] How the heck are
the residents when
[1:33:48] they're closing streets down.
[1:33:50] How are we supposed to maneuver.
[1:33:52] Our town is only 8,700
residents, roughly
[1:33:57] like when everybody's here.
[1:34:01] This isn't resident friendly.
[1:34:04] And it's like, OK,
well, they've already
[1:34:06] pushed their way in bullies
to get this thing done.
[1:34:10] Well, now they're
setting a precedent.
[1:34:13] And now finding out because I
just got the dump on the PRR
[1:34:16] I submitted on the 12, and
that's when I didn't even
[1:34:19] have time to go over
all the information
[1:34:21] pages and pages and pages
of how hard and so much
[1:34:24] has been done on this.
[1:34:27] It baffles me.
[1:34:29] They're setting a
precedent for other hotels
[1:34:32] because it's a big cash cow.
[1:34:35] Thank you.
[1:34:36] Thank you.
[1:34:37] 
[1:34:39] Deborah Deborah Schockner.
[1:34:41] 
[1:34:50] Good evening, Deborah Schockner.
[1:34:51] I'll drive.
[1:34:52] I would like to also indicate
that gentleman from tradewind
[1:34:58] said there'll be
no advertising, and
[1:35:01] there'll be no sale of tickets
until a permit has been granted.
[1:35:07] So right there, that
contract is violated.
[1:35:11] I talked to two pages.
[1:35:15] State officials, local
officials, County officials.
[1:35:20] I have been told that
an environmental impact
[1:35:23] study should be done.
[1:35:25] I have not heard that mentioned.
[1:35:28] We have the shorebirds also
nesting during this time.
[1:35:34] Sea turtle.
[1:35:37] State of Florida.
[1:35:38] 161.163 is being violated.
[1:35:43] 12,000 guests is a far cry from
6 from some of the other events.
[1:35:48] And four.
[1:35:48] 
[1:35:57] We never heard from staff.
[1:35:59] I must have brought this up six
or seven commission meetings.
[1:36:02] Not once did the staff say
what position we're in.
[1:36:07] Transparency in this city
has always equaled trust.
[1:36:11] Residents should
have been brought
[1:36:13] in from the very beginning.
[1:36:15] This is our city.
[1:36:16] And by the way, really quick.
[1:36:18] That's Mother's Day weekend.
[1:36:19] It's one of the biggest
weekends in May for the beach.
[1:36:22] Hotels are busy, the
restaurants are very busy.
[1:36:25] That's why they have
all the buffets.
[1:36:28] The end of May, middle of
May is when graduations occur
[1:36:31] and a lot of people
celebrate on the beach,
[1:36:33] so may is not without tourists.
[1:36:40] This massive concert
should have had
[1:36:44] transparency with the
residents from the beginning.
[1:36:47] Papers were signed in November,
which makes really what they did
[1:36:51] null and void because they
violated a signed paperwork
[1:36:55] that they gave to the city.
[1:36:58] We were misled.
[1:37:00] It's circumventing.
[1:37:02] Months ago, staff
was aware of this
[1:37:05] and now we're presented
as a done deal.
[1:37:08] As Mindy said,
thunder is coming.
[1:37:12] We demand as residents to
be treated better if we're
[1:37:16] not brought in on the process.
[1:37:18] If there's not trust and
there's not transparency,
[1:37:21] and there are signed contracts
that have already been violated,
[1:37:25] how can we allow this
to hit our beach.
[1:37:29] There will be a lot of
skimmers that will lose.
[1:37:35] There will be a lot of people
drunk walking along the beach
[1:37:40] all hours of the day and night.
[1:37:42] This is we're not
prepared for it.
[1:37:45] I don't think thunder
presented well.
[1:37:49] And residents can
always walk in the water
[1:37:51] so anybody can listen to it.
[1:37:52] Thank you.
[1:37:53] But it shouldn't happen.
[1:37:56] Thank you.
[1:37:57] Monty Hogue.
[1:37:58] 
[1:38:07] Hello Monty Hogue,
80 Gulf Boulevard,
[1:38:10] ST Pete Beach, district one.
[1:38:13] I've lived on the
beach most of my life.
[1:38:16] First came here as a kid in
the 60s, and I've seen a lot.
[1:38:19] Seen a lot of events.
[1:38:20] I can remember the.
[1:38:21] I missed the beach goes pops.
[1:38:23] We had that down
in pass-a-grille.
[1:38:24] I was actually at the
spin doctors concert.
[1:38:27] That was a little crowded for
anybody that remembers that.
[1:38:32] I applaud the mayor and saying,
let's get ourselves back
[1:38:35] after this storm.
[1:38:35] I lived through it,
as most of us did,
[1:38:37] and we'd like to get back and
enjoy some things on life.
[1:38:41] On the other side, I am a
supporter of the environment.
[1:38:44] Turtles, birds and
anything else, marine wise.
[1:38:48] But, going through the
storm, having to rebuild,
[1:38:51] still seeing many of my
neighbors that are not back,
[1:38:54] seeing many businesses
that are still not back.
[1:38:57] We need something.
[1:38:58] And I think for three days,
and I spoke with MS Edmonds
[1:39:01] quite a bit when I first
heard this, was announced
[1:39:03] that the city could
pull it off, and she
[1:39:05] has a plan to do much of that,
and I look forward to it.
[1:39:09] And we've had a lot of things
on the beach, as was mentioned
[1:39:13] by several people, and
they've been successful
[1:39:16] and we haven't heard any
complaints about those.
[1:39:18] We've had the
concerts in the park.
[1:39:21] I think in those three days.
[1:39:23] I know it is going to be an
issue with turtles and birds,
[1:39:27] and I would be very
concerned and I
[1:39:28] hope that things
can be worked out
[1:39:30] and we can have
this event because I
[1:39:33] think it's something we need.
[1:39:34] It'll benefit not
only the businesses,
[1:39:36] but there's a lot of
residents, unlike what
[1:39:40] Commissioner Robinson said.
[1:39:42] I know a lot of people.
[1:39:43] I've been here most of my life.
[1:39:45] I have a lot of
friends and neighbors
[1:39:47] that live on the beach.
[1:39:49] And when that this was first
announced and mentioned,
[1:39:52] most everybody, I mean,
actually everybody
[1:39:55] I've talked to about it
has been in support of it
[1:39:57] and is looking forward to it.
[1:39:59] I saw the newspaper article
that came out last week,
[1:40:02] and I was actually surprised
that there was conflict
[1:40:06] about it, but I do understand
some of those issues,
[1:40:10] and I'm hoping that our
city can solve those issues.
[1:40:13] And we can have a
great event like this.
[1:40:15] Years ago, I attended a similar
event in Fort Lauderdale
[1:40:19] that they still have
the tortuga music
[1:40:21] festival, which actually
benefits a lot of their charity.
[1:40:26] There is sea turtles.
[1:40:27] That's a pretty big beach.
[1:40:30] It happens in April.
[1:40:31] And maybe if we look
at how they do that
[1:40:34] and bring it back every
year successfully.
[1:40:36] And I believe it probably
brings in more people
[1:40:39] than this one would.
[1:40:41] So I'm hoping that
we can do something
[1:40:43] because the city could use it.
[1:40:44] The residents would
love to have it.
[1:40:47] As I mentioned,
most of the people
[1:40:48] I've talked to as far
as friends and neighbors
[1:40:52] are in support of this as I am,
and I look forward to hopefully
[1:40:56] being able to attend it.
[1:40:57] Thank you.
[1:40:58] Thank you sir.
[1:41:00] Carrie matryoshka.
[1:41:04] Thank you.
[1:41:07] Lisa Reich.
[1:41:07] 
[1:41:16] Hello Hi, I'm Lisa Reich,
and I'm a displaced ST
[1:41:23] Pete Beach resident.
[1:41:24] I'm sorry.
[1:41:24] Would you give your displaced.
[1:41:25] Sorry you're about to.
[1:41:26] I'm sorry.
[1:41:27] Sorry on Pond Street.
[1:41:31] Yes, sorry.
[1:41:31] I apologize.
[1:41:32] I'm also an avid
conservationist and I
[1:41:37] have started my own
nonprofit in 2022,
[1:41:40] I believe, called coastal
wildlife advocacy group,
[1:41:45] and I've patrolled the
beaches for over 15 years
[1:41:50] doing sea turtle
patrol, not only
[1:41:52] here, but also Treasure Island.
[1:41:56] And I'm also a Audubon
Florida bird Steward.
[1:42:00] And I also serve on the
board of ST Pete Audubon.
[1:42:04] I am the conservation chair.
[1:42:08] Wow unbelievable is a good word.
[1:42:14] I think the saying is putting
the cart before the horse.
[1:42:18] All this is moving forward, and
there's no official approval.
[1:42:23] And so I was.
[1:42:27] I was sent about 91 documents
in the past 24 hours.
[1:42:32] And so I reviewed some
of those documents,
[1:42:34] and I just want to go as quickly
as I can because the common word
[1:42:39] is complete.
[1:42:40] You've got to submit a
complete application.
[1:42:43] 
[1:42:46] I feel that the applicant did
not do their due diligence,
[1:42:52] and now we're in
a situation where
[1:42:55] we're talking about
it's going to happen
[1:42:58] and they're selling tickets.
[1:43:00] They signed the agreement or the
applicant that says they are not
[1:43:04] going to advertise
until this is until they
[1:43:07] have a permit to do so.
[1:43:09] So there's a lot of
stuff that I've read
[1:43:12] and I read through the
application again today
[1:43:16] and it's incomplete.
[1:43:19] So if you all have
the time, if you
[1:43:21] haven't looked at
the application,
[1:43:23] I highly recommend that you do.
[1:43:26] There's going to be two stages.
[1:43:32] Country thunder has never
had an event on a beach.
[1:43:37] And certainly not
during nesting season.
[1:43:42] So doing all this and paying
for all the performance and all
[1:43:47] of that is due diligence
that should have been done
[1:43:52] on the part of the applicant.
[1:43:54] There's going to be 13
food trucks, the applicant,
[1:43:59] the application says 21 tents.
[1:44:02] The actual site plan
shows 50/50 tents.
[1:44:09] And from what I understand,
the tents require.
[1:44:13] 
[1:44:15] A permit, if it's over a 10 by
10, that's a lot of permits.
[1:44:21] If there's certain vehicles,
they require a permit.
[1:44:24] It goes on and on.
[1:44:26] Thank you.
[1:44:27] You're welcome.
[1:44:29] John kurzman.
[1:44:30] 
[1:44:34] I was going to attend today.
[1:44:35] John kurzman I'll be on the way.
[1:44:38] Thank you.
[1:44:39] I just want to say that when
I first heard about this,
[1:44:43] I believe that so many
residents have been suffering
[1:44:47] and so many businesses
have been suffering.
[1:44:50] And the desire to get
us back on the map
[1:44:53] and have people realize
that we are open again
[1:44:56] and that we are a fun place to
be, I think is very important.
[1:45:00] I'm not a country music
fan, but I don't care.
[1:45:02] It's not for me,
it's for everybody.
[1:45:04] And I think it's
a great concept.
[1:45:07] I loved it when I went
to Charlie Daniels here.
[1:45:10] It was great.
[1:45:11] But I'm concerned
about implementation.
[1:45:15] Nobody's even discussed this
with beach stewardship yet.
[1:45:18] First off, I'm only
representing myself.
[1:45:20] I am a beach Steward,
but I'm not speaking
[1:45:21] on behalf of beach stewardship.
[1:45:23] But nobody's come to
them that I know of.
[1:45:26] I know I've
supported recognizing
[1:45:28] that this is not the time
that any eggs are hatching.
[1:45:33] This is the time when
they're just maybe beginning
[1:45:35] to start laying the eggs.
[1:45:37] And I've spoken
before about the fact
[1:45:38] that I prefer that
the turtles not
[1:45:41] be tricked and realize that
Tradewinds is one of the busiest
[1:45:43] spots on our beach.
[1:45:44] And maybe they have three
days to lay their eggs,
[1:45:47] maybe find another
spot that's better
[1:45:48] and we might get the rates up.
[1:45:51] I don't have signs to say
that just as a suspicion,
[1:45:54] but I also have mentioned
that there's polls at PCI
[1:45:58] and at Jimmy B's with rope
holes right along the water
[1:46:02] line or the high water line.
[1:46:04] And my concern is now when
I hear about the Thunder,
[1:46:08] they might be
thinking of putting
[1:46:09] those ropes up in those
rope holes in those polls.
[1:46:12] And that was the reason to keep
the people off those properties.
[1:46:16] And now you're
really going to have
[1:46:17] a traffic jam of the
non-attendees walking
[1:46:21] along the shoreline.
[1:46:22] Or maybe they're going to
plan on selling tickets
[1:46:25] themselves to eavesdrop.
[1:46:27] I don't but I think we have
to think about those polls.
[1:46:31] I also, in the past
worked on a Super Bowl,
[1:46:33] which had 80,000 attendees
from a security standpoint.
[1:46:36] So I don't want to
be melodramatic,
[1:46:40] but I have concerns
about ingress and egress,
[1:46:42] because some of the things I
had to do with 80,000 people
[1:46:44] or learned about and
I'm also concerned,
[1:46:48] is it going to be a gun free
zone and they're going to be
[1:46:50] searching everybody on
the way in, and then
[1:46:52] they're responsible for the
safety of everybody inside.
[1:46:54] Or is it just going
to be open and
[1:46:55] anybody can do what they want.
[1:46:58] And then lastly, I
calculated that they're
[1:47:01] going to make in revenue
about 3.5 to $4.5 million
[1:47:05] in revenue, which is
in jeopardy right now.
[1:47:07] If it's refused.
[1:47:10] So maybe the DEP did
us a bit of a favor.
[1:47:13] And is giving us
time to negotiate.
[1:47:16] What they will do for the city.
[1:47:18] I mean, just look.
[1:47:19] And when I heard
Mandy's presentation,
[1:47:21] and I read some of these things
and saw how much effort has
[1:47:24] already been expended by
the city and our staff
[1:47:26] in researching this.
[1:47:28] My question is, what
else will you do for us.
[1:47:32] What will you do.
[1:47:33] Because this is
impacting the city.
[1:47:35] You have got a lot
of revenue coming in.
[1:47:37] Maybe we could share
that a little bit.
[1:47:39] Thank you.
[1:47:40] Thank you sir.
[1:47:42] Layla hello, everybody.
[1:47:52] Leila bounous hermosita
drive, ST Pete Beach.
[1:47:55] I just have to say, when I first
heard that Country Thunder was
[1:47:58] coming here as a young
person, I was like, man,
[1:48:01] that's going to do great
things for ST Pete Beach,
[1:48:03] especially after everything
we've been through.
[1:48:06] We have so many businesses
that need stimulation.
[1:48:11] Yeah, most of the time people
are going to be in the festival,
[1:48:15] but as many people have
said, there's going to be
[1:48:18] people around the festival.
[1:48:21] Sure I have friends that said,
oh yeah, let's go to the beach,
[1:48:23] let's go get a boat so
we can be off the beach.
[1:48:27] That's awesome and cool.
[1:48:28] But then what I heard
about the dates,
[1:48:31] I mean, it's pretty
disappointing
[1:48:33] that Tradewinds decided to do
it, when we have nesting season.
[1:48:39] And they should
have known better.
[1:48:42] Granted, if we do it again
and again in a different time
[1:48:45] of year, fantastic.
[1:48:48] We don't have that
many things that bring
[1:48:51] people into ST Pete Beach.
[1:48:53] Country thunder can bring a lot
of people into ST Pete Beach,
[1:48:58] and really, that's
something we need.
[1:49:01] That's going to be all.
[1:49:02] Thanks, y'all.
[1:49:03] Thank you.
[1:49:03] 
[1:49:07] I have no more audience
comments on this topic.
[1:49:09] OK thank you.
[1:49:13] My understanding is we
have the next presentation
[1:49:18] the University of Florida, Levin
College of Law enforcement, law,
[1:49:21] environment and community
development clinic
[1:49:23] on the legal
feasibility of a parking
[1:49:25] based assessment for street
infrastructure funding.
[1:49:28] 
[1:49:35] Awesome good afternoon.
[1:49:41] Mayor commissioners.
[1:49:42] Gil Martinez, community
development senior planner.
[1:49:45] Just quickly wanted to
make a quick introduction
[1:49:47] to the University of
Florida Levine school of law
[1:49:50] and thank them for coming out.
[1:49:52] They're going to be making
a presentation to you
[1:49:54] today regarding the feasibility,
the legal defensibility
[1:49:59] of considering a commercial
parking assessment.
[1:50:03] This is a presentation.
[1:50:04] It is a academic
exercise of sort,
[1:50:08] but it's also important
to note that this
[1:50:10] is part of our
ongoing collaborations
[1:50:12] with the University of Florida.
[1:50:15] They were instrumental in
providing us some key points
[1:50:18] to consider as we were
going through the finding
[1:50:21] of necessity that was
recently approved for the CRA.
[1:50:24] So this is how it's all come
about, and they're here for you.
[1:50:30] This topic will be brought
back to you when your revenue
[1:50:32] workshop on April 3, so
there'll be opportunities
[1:50:35] to further discuss.
[1:50:37] So with that, I'll turn it over
to Mr. Hawkins and his team
[1:50:41] from the University of Florida.
[1:50:42] Thank you.
[1:50:43] 
[1:50:47] Good evening.
[1:50:48] My name is Thomas Hawkins.
[1:50:50] I'll get to some introductory
slides in a second,
[1:50:53] but I have been thinking
a lot this evening.
[1:50:56] I served two terms on the
Gainesville city commission.
[1:50:58] A little bit more
than a decade ago.
[1:51:00] And throughout the evening.
[1:51:01] Tonight, I've felt at different
moments, both very fondly
[1:51:04] nostalgic for that and
also a lot of empathy
[1:51:08] for the difficult job
that you all have.
[1:51:10] I won't tell you
which moments which.
[1:51:11] 
[1:51:14] Well, I'd like to begin by
introducing Olivia gantner,
[1:51:18] who's here with me, who's a
third year student in a course
[1:51:21] that I teach at the
University and is
[1:51:23] going to be delivering part
of the presentation with me.
[1:51:27] I'm not sure if I mentioned
Olivia is from Florida,
[1:51:30] is from Pensacola.
[1:51:31] And also another
one of my students
[1:51:32] is here, Carissa Allen, who's
a second year student at UF law
[1:51:36] from Jupiter, Florida.
[1:51:39] I am the director of the
environmental and community
[1:51:42] development clinic,
so I'm faculty
[1:51:44] at the University of Florida
Levin College of Law.
[1:51:46] I teach a land use course
and have some other roles
[1:51:49] at the University, but my main
job is teaching this course
[1:51:52] a clinic in legal education.
[1:51:54] A clinic is a course
where students
[1:51:56] gain practical experience
in actual practice of law
[1:52:00] by working under the
supervision of a faculty member
[1:52:03] doing legal work.
[1:52:04] It's typically pro Bono, as it
was in this instance, where we
[1:52:07] find real world client
needs and projects
[1:52:10] that students can work
and gain that experience
[1:52:13] in representation.
[1:52:17] We have approached working
on this issue using
[1:52:21] a problem solving framework
that I like to use,
[1:52:24] called the rational
planning model.
[1:52:26] It's represented
in this diagram.
[1:52:28] It is essentially in litigation.
[1:52:33] So often in the
law we're looking
[1:52:35] at conflict between parties.
[1:52:37] And there's always
a win or lose.
[1:52:39] And working and doing a lot
of local government work.
[1:52:43] And in policymaking
and in legislation,
[1:52:45] I think a much different model
is helpful for conceptualizing
[1:52:49] how to get to solutions.
[1:52:51] And it's this framework,
the rational planning model.
[1:52:53] And I want to outline
it very quickly.
[1:52:56] We start by identifying
a problem in this case
[1:52:59] that the city of ST Pete Beach,
like many local governments,
[1:53:02] has a greater needs for
providing maintenance and repair
[1:53:06] on its roadway infrastructure
than it has funding available,
[1:53:09] and then moving
through identifying
[1:53:11] what your values
that should influence
[1:53:13] solutions to that problem.
[1:53:15] In this case, we
haven't worked with you
[1:53:16] to identify your values, but
we've based on some assumptions
[1:53:20] with conversations
with your staff
[1:53:21] that they include things
like maintaining your roadway
[1:53:24] infrastructure in good
repair, not overly
[1:53:27] increasing costs on
residents, in particular, not
[1:53:29] increasing taxes on residents.
[1:53:32] Setting goals which in this
case might be that you have
[1:53:35] adequate funding
for street repair
[1:53:37] and then developing
solutions, and you
[1:53:40] can go further through
that to actually
[1:53:41] compare multiple solutions
that you developed.
[1:53:44] We haven't gone that far.
[1:53:45] We just have one proposed
idea that we've evaluated
[1:53:49] the legal feasibility of that.
[1:53:51] We'll present to you tonight.
[1:53:54] I'm going to skip through these.
[1:53:55] We prepared more slides that
would be appropriate for a 15
[1:53:58] minute presentation.
[1:53:59] So you'll see us skipping
through quite a few of them
[1:54:01] in order to keep our time
as reasonable as possible.
[1:54:04] So I want to start with a brief
framing of local government
[1:54:07] powers and revenue.
[1:54:09] As in Florida, you have
home rule authority.
[1:54:13] The legislature
can preempt that.
[1:54:15] But the base position under the
Florida Constitution since 1968
[1:54:18] is that local governments
have authority to exercise
[1:54:21] police powers and act.
[1:54:23] And while that is the case for
most local government functions,
[1:54:27] it does not include the
ability to raise revenue.
[1:54:31] So you cannot charge
your residents
[1:54:33] a tax unless the state
explicitly authorizes
[1:54:37] your ability to do that.
[1:54:38] It sets a cap on
your millage rate.
[1:54:40] It specifies what taxes
you can charge other
[1:54:42] than ad valorem
taxes, and you can't
[1:54:44] operate outside of that box.
[1:54:47] But other kinds of
local government charges
[1:54:50] are allowed pursuant to
your home rule authority.
[1:54:53] For many of these, we also
have statutory authority.
[1:54:57] But even without
statutory authority,
[1:54:59] you can adopt assessments
and adopt fees.
[1:55:03] And we're going to look
specifically at assessments
[1:55:05] in our proposal this evening.
[1:55:07] So what is an assessment.
[1:55:10] An assessment is a
charge that to be
[1:55:13] an assessment must have two
very specific characteristics.
[1:55:16] And so if you can't
just call something
[1:55:19] an assessment and charge
somebody it and that be legal.
[1:55:23] A court would look and
evaluate well is that charge
[1:55:26] actually an assessment.
[1:55:27] And so if you're looking
at gaining revenue
[1:55:31] through an assessment, you
need to design from the ground
[1:55:33] up your program to meet
these two criteria.
[1:55:35] They are any property you assess
must receive a special benefit
[1:55:40] from a service you provide
funded by that assessment,
[1:55:43] and that the folks
who you charge
[1:55:44] an assessment, those
property owners, you
[1:55:46] have to have fairly apportion
the costs across them.
[1:55:49] I'm going to turn the
baton over to Olivia
[1:55:51] now to walk through both of
these in case law research
[1:55:54] that she's completed
in collaboration
[1:55:57] with some other law students,
and give a little bit more
[1:55:59] detail to those ideas.
[1:56:01] Thank you.
[1:56:02] So first we're going to look
at the special benefit prong.
[1:56:06] Sorry first we're going to look
at the special benefit prong
[1:56:09] of the assessment framework.
[1:56:12] And all that's required to
satisfy the special benefit
[1:56:16] prong is a logical relationship
between the services you provide
[1:56:21] and the benefit that
the property receives.
[1:56:24] And it needs to be emphasized as
well that it's the property, not
[1:56:27] the property owner.
[1:56:29] And other properties
may incidentally
[1:56:31] benefit without ever
losing the special benefit
[1:56:35] that property owner has.
[1:56:37] And we'll have some slides that
cover that a little bit more
[1:56:40] in depth in a minute.
[1:56:41] 
[1:56:46] So here's some examples of what
Florida courts have considered
[1:56:49] to be a special benefit.
[1:56:51] The first is treating storm
water, where the properties that
[1:56:55] cause the need for the treatment
are the ones being assessed,
[1:56:59] and the second one is initiating
beautiful beautification
[1:57:03] projects within a
subdivision, which then
[1:57:05] enhances those properties values
that's deemed a special benefit.
[1:57:11] And then also fire
protection services
[1:57:15] benefits properties
that may catch
[1:57:17] on fire at some point in time.
[1:57:18] 
[1:57:21] And then here are
some other examples.
[1:57:23] 
[1:57:31] So now we're going to look
at the fair apportionment
[1:57:34] prong of the assessment test.
[1:57:36] And both Florida statutes
and Florida courts.
[1:57:40] So Florida statutes
prescribes the more
[1:57:42] traditional method of
apportionment which
[1:57:45] is by front put front footage.
[1:57:48] But both the statutes
and the courts
[1:57:50] have allowed it to go beyond
that as long as it's reasonable.
[1:57:53] 
[1:58:03] And then the main
other important thing
[1:58:06] to hit for the fair
apportionment is that the amount
[1:58:10] of the assessment
must be proportional,
[1:58:13] proportional to the benefit
that the properties received,
[1:58:16] which means that you
can have a benefit,
[1:58:19] outweigh the assessment,
but the assessment
[1:58:21] can never outweigh the benefit.
[1:58:22] So the amount that the
property owner is charged
[1:58:25] must be proportional
to the benefit.
[1:58:28] 
[1:58:33] And then I'm giving it back
to Professor Hawkins now.
[1:58:36] Thank you.
[1:58:36] Thank you.
[1:58:39] So based on the framework
that Olivia laid out,
[1:58:43] we have pretty broad
authority at local government
[1:58:46] level to charge assessments.
[1:58:48] And I want to talk a
little bit about some ways
[1:58:50] that it's curtailed.
[1:58:51] First to how broad
the authority is.
[1:58:55] We have very strong language
from the Florida Supreme Court
[1:59:01] that courts should uphold
legislative judgment,
[1:59:05] meaning your judgment as a
legislative body for the city.
[1:59:08] If you charge an
assessment and you've
[1:59:11] determined that it provides
a special benefit to property
[1:59:14] and is fairly apportioned.
[1:59:16] In other words, the ultimate
decider of that fact
[1:59:19] ought to be the legislative
body rather than the courts.
[1:59:24] That said, however, courts
will require evidence
[1:59:28] to support a determination
that an assessment
[1:59:31] provides a special benefit
and is fairly apportioned.
[1:59:35] The specific standard for that
evidence that courts require
[1:59:38] is that it be competent,
substantial evidence,
[1:59:41] and that it not be arbitrary.
[1:59:43] And typically, this is done
through consultants reports who
[1:59:45] analyze a problem and determine
connections between how you
[1:59:48] might pay for it and
what benefit it provides
[1:59:50] to different residents.
[1:59:52] And this is, I think,
is going to make sense
[1:59:54] when we talk a little bit
about the specific framework
[1:59:56] that we suggest is a
feasible one to charge
[1:59:59] an assessment for street
maintenance and repair,
[2:00:02] that is charging an assessment
on non-residential parking.
[2:00:07] A portion, sorry.
[2:00:09] Charging an
assessment for street
[2:00:11] repair to the owners of
non-residential parking
[2:00:15] that's apportioned
by the parking space.
[2:00:18] So let's just talk really
basically through that idea.
[2:00:23] Identifying a.
[2:00:28] Identifying the cost
of providing street
[2:00:30] repairs in your community.
[2:00:31] Identifying the benefit that
those street repairs have
[2:00:34] to non-residential properties,
and then apportioning that cost
[2:00:38] to each of those properties by
the number of parking spaces
[2:00:41] that they have.
[2:00:42] 
[2:00:44] In order for something like
that to pass the standards
[2:00:48] for assessments in
the state of Florida,
[2:00:50] you're going to need evidence to
support a few different points.
[2:00:53] One street maintenance must
have a logical relationship
[2:00:57] with a benefit to Land
Reserve for parking.
[2:00:59] Now there is an
internal logic to that.
[2:01:02] It's somewhat self-evident,
but we can't just rely on what
[2:01:05] we think might be obvious.
[2:01:07] We would actually need
to analyze the problem
[2:01:10] and identify when
we maintain streets.
[2:01:12] Does that improve the usability
of commercial properties
[2:01:15] that have parking on them.
[2:01:17] And that's again, not a
tremendous logical leap,
[2:01:19] but that is the
analysis that someone
[2:01:21] would need to go through.
[2:01:24] Second, we would need to
identify the amount numbers
[2:01:27] of non-residential parking
spaces on commercial properties
[2:01:30] throughout the city.
[2:01:31] If you're apportioning
assessment
[2:01:33] by that need a good roster
of where the parking exists
[2:01:37] on which properties and actually
associate that with tax Bills
[2:01:40] on which somebody would pay.
[2:01:42] And then finally, you
would need evidence
[2:01:45] that shows that the actual
amount of the benefit
[2:01:48] is connected to the amount
of parking that exists
[2:01:50] on a non-residential property.
[2:01:54] In addition, an
analysis should show
[2:01:57] that you have a need
for street maintenance
[2:02:00] that street maintenance
benefits those non-residential
[2:02:02] properties, and that the amount
of benefit that you provide
[2:02:08] to those individual
properties exceeds
[2:02:10] the cost of any assessment.
[2:02:11] Now, a lot of that type of work,
I know the city has already
[2:02:14] done, one of the things that we
reviewed when we were conducting
[2:02:17] our research was
the Stantec study
[2:02:19] you did within the
last few years,
[2:02:20] and I'm blanking
on the name of it,
[2:02:22] the paving condition index study
that identified exactly the cost
[2:02:27] of your street maintenance
needs and also identified
[2:02:31] that under your
current funding, you
[2:02:33] don't have a way to fund
that problem at the magnitude
[2:02:36] that it currently exists.
[2:02:37] 
[2:02:40] I think these are duplicative.
[2:02:42] So I'm going to go on
to the next section.
[2:02:43] I want to identify
some cautions.
[2:02:47] I don't want to lay out this
as a possible source of revenue
[2:02:50] with only focusing
on the positive.
[2:02:53] I do think it's very positive.
[2:02:55] I do think it's
feasible, but I want
[2:02:57] to identify what some of
the counter considerations
[2:03:00] would be other than just
that some folks will
[2:03:04] pay an additional cost
if an assessment exists.
[2:03:07] One, if you're proposing
to pay for street repair,
[2:03:12] at least partially
in this manner,
[2:03:14] that's not a process for
increasing the amount of parking
[2:03:17] that you have available.
[2:03:18] We started by
identifying the problem
[2:03:20] as a street repair problem
and lack of adequate funding
[2:03:24] to cover it.
[2:03:25] If you were also identifying
or maybe even identifying
[2:03:29] as a higher problem, a
lack of available parking,
[2:03:32] or insufficient
amount of parking.
[2:03:34] This is not a solution
to that problem.
[2:03:36] It's not going to encourage
that provision of parking.
[2:03:40] It also, and I would say
this is on a positive side,
[2:03:43] it may encourage folks
who own real estate
[2:03:45] that's underutilized parking.
[2:03:48] And I thought your suggestion
earlier, Commissioner Marriott,
[2:03:51] on using some of that
parking for special events
[2:03:53] was an excellent one.
[2:03:55] But it may encourage that
be put to a different use
[2:03:59] if your code that allows for
example, redeveloping portions
[2:04:01] of parking lots for out partial
development or other kinds
[2:04:04] of redevelopment.
[2:04:08] I also want to note
that no methodology.
[2:04:11] Sorry, no court has considered
this methodology before.
[2:04:13] It is a novel proposal.
[2:04:15] So there.
[2:04:16] You can't rely on a
pre-existing court case based
[2:04:19] on exactly these kind of facts.
[2:04:22] However, in the
state of Florida,
[2:04:24] a local government like
the city of ST Pete
[2:04:26] can initiate something called a
bond validation proceeding that
[2:04:31] would allow it to get a decision
from a court on the legality
[2:04:35] of any kind of a
new charge that it's
[2:04:37] borrowing money against before
it actually spends that money.
[2:04:41] So you can limit your
liability to the cost
[2:04:43] of doing the research
and preparing
[2:04:47] to charge an assessment.
[2:04:48] You don't have to go to the
extent of spending money
[2:04:53] without knowing whether an
assessment framework is legal.
[2:04:55] And that's very typical
for local governments
[2:04:57] to do to have a bond
validation proceeding.
[2:05:01] I also want to note, because
this problem is so pervasive, I
[2:05:06] think an obvious
question is, well,
[2:05:08] why don't we have local
governments in Florida
[2:05:11] either charging
fees for road repair
[2:05:13] or charging assessments
for road repair.
[2:05:16] Charging assessments for
road repair is very common,
[2:05:19] but it's typically done in a
very small portion of a city.
[2:05:22] Maybe identifying
just the properties
[2:05:24] that touch on a specific
road, as Olivia described,
[2:05:27] are traditional or classical.
[2:05:29] Method of apportionment is
by the number of front feet
[2:05:33] that a property
fronts on a road.
[2:05:35] Why don't we have jurisdiction
wide assessments for road repair
[2:05:38] already.
[2:05:39] If this problem is so pervasive.
[2:05:40] So I want to talk a little
bit about two cases that
[2:05:44] occurred both in the 1990s.
[2:05:48] One, the city of Port orange
charged a transportation utility
[2:05:52] fee and a Florida district
court said the characteristics
[2:05:57] of this charge are more
like a tax than a fee,
[2:06:01] and therefore your home rule
powers don't allow you to charge
[2:06:04] this and you can't do this.
[2:06:06] What we're proposing is very,
very different than that.
[2:06:08] So I'm not going to go into
detail talking about that case
[2:06:11] at all.
[2:06:11] But I do want to talk a little
bit about another case called
[2:06:15] Hanna versus the
City of Palm Bay
[2:06:17] from 1991, where
the city of Palm Bay
[2:06:21] charged a Citywide
assessment for street repair
[2:06:25] on properties Citywide.
[2:06:28] And the plan was throughout
the entire jurisdiction.
[2:06:31] We're going to charge
this assessment
[2:06:32] and use that revenue
for street repair
[2:06:35] so that we have a
closed system, and
[2:06:37] we're not using our
general ad valorem
[2:06:39] revenue for street repair.
[2:06:41] And a Florida court determined
that was not lawful.
[2:06:46] And that's similar enough
to what we're talking about,
[2:06:49] that I want to go through
identifying ways that it's
[2:06:52] different because it
is different in ways
[2:06:56] that I think are
substantial and invalidate
[2:06:59] the holding and the Hanover
versus the City of Palm Bay
[2:07:02] case.
[2:07:03] I'm not going to read this,
but I'll just summarize.
[2:07:06] In that case, the city of Palm
Bay had cited as its authority
[2:07:11] for charging the assessment.
[2:07:13] Florida statutes
and Florida statutes
[2:07:16] put limitations on your
ability to charge assessments.
[2:07:21] After the court came
up with this decision,
[2:07:24] we had the Florida
Supreme Court.
[2:07:27] So a higher court
than determined
[2:07:29] the Hanna versus the
City of Palm Bay case.
[2:07:31] 
[2:07:34] Held in a case called
the City of Boca Raton,
[2:07:37] that local governments
could charge assessments not
[2:07:41] pursuant to their
statutory authority,
[2:07:43] but pursuant to their
home rule authority
[2:07:45] under the 1968
Florida Constitution.
[2:07:48] And the legislation that
implements the Constitution.
[2:07:51] And when that happens,
the restrictions
[2:07:53] on how you charge assessments
that exist in the statute
[2:07:56] don't apply.
[2:07:57] And very explicitly said this.
[2:07:59] And then after that,
later in the 90s,
[2:08:03] another district court
specifically evaluated the Hanna
[2:08:06] case and said the restrictions
in Hanna decision on having
[2:08:11] a jurisdiction wide assessment
don't apply if the authority
[2:08:16] for your assessment is your
home rule authority, which
[2:08:19] is what we would propose here.
[2:08:21] So I want to mention that
case because the facts are
[2:08:23] similar enough that
it's worth discussing,
[2:08:26] but make clear that the
legal analysis in that case
[2:08:31] doesn't apply.
[2:08:31] Now that the Florida
Supreme Court has recognized
[2:08:33] that there's this other
way to this other authority
[2:08:36] for charging assessments.
[2:08:40] That's essentially goes
through the same thing.
[2:08:44] So, so with that, I don't
have a slide for this,
[2:08:46] but probably a good
summary to say is.
[2:08:49] 
[2:08:54] I think that this is
a reasonable option
[2:08:56] to consider because
it generates revenue
[2:08:58] that the city is
interested in that would
[2:09:00] be dedicated for street repair.
[2:09:02] It's also directly targeted
to folks who benefit from it.
[2:09:06] If the city's interested
in this kind of direction,
[2:09:10] a next step would be putting
together a request for proposals
[2:09:14] to have an expert consulting
firm look at those questions
[2:09:18] that I asked.
[2:09:20] Can we take our plans for road
repair that we already have,
[2:09:24] and connect those
improvements specifically
[2:09:27] to benefits to property where
non-residential parking exists,
[2:09:31] and go through the
process of supporting
[2:09:33] that apportionment method.
[2:09:35] In other words,
continuing to evaluate it,
[2:09:38] but with a specific
look at the facts
[2:09:40] that are generated
in your community
[2:09:42] to ensure that you continue to
meet those requirements in law.
[2:09:47] And that's we're happy
to answer any questions.
[2:09:49] And thank you, Commissioner.
[2:09:52] Mayor questions, please.
[2:09:53] Yeah one question.
[2:09:55] And I'm going to probably
stumble over my words
[2:09:58] and get them wrong because
I'm not used to reading
[2:10:00] legal documents, but in
part of the presentation
[2:10:05] and part of the slides that
were kind of skimmed over,
[2:10:08] which I appreciate you
doing that for time's sake.
[2:10:11] But in speaking of
fair apportionment,
[2:10:14] it talks a little bit about
being able to justify why
[2:10:19] the commercial property
owners that are being charged,
[2:10:22] the assessment are benefiting
more than the residential,
[2:10:27] the residents who are not
being charged the assessment
[2:10:30] but are still
getting the benefit.
[2:10:32] And I feel like the
examples that were cited
[2:10:36] talked more about really
ancillary benefits
[2:10:40] of people who don't
live here at all
[2:10:42] and are just driving
through town.
[2:10:43] And the courts have
said that that's fine
[2:10:45] that those people getting that
benefit, not paying for it
[2:10:48] is OK.
[2:10:49] But this particular case
seems a little different to me
[2:10:53] where you have you're
charging the assessment
[2:10:58] on commercial spaces, but
you have a very large group
[2:11:01] of people that are also getting
a very direct benefit from that.
[2:11:04] And so I was just curious
if you could touch
[2:11:06] a little bit on
your legal reasoning
[2:11:09] for why you think that's OK.
[2:11:10] This is an excellent question.
[2:11:12] And the first
thing I will say is
[2:11:14] you could structure an
assessment where you charged
[2:11:18] every piece of property that
had a parking space apportioned
[2:11:21] by the parking spaces.
[2:11:24] One one value that we considered
in contemplating this the way
[2:11:30] that we did was that there
would likely be an interest
[2:11:33] on the city's part
in not charging
[2:11:38] an assessment on
residential property owners
[2:11:42] to get any revenue.
[2:11:43] But there's nothing inherent
to the process that would
[2:11:46] require you to do that way.
[2:11:47] It's reflective of our
perception that would
[2:11:48] be a value that you would have.
[2:11:51] So moving on from that to
the strictly legal question.
[2:11:54] My understanding of the case law
is that the fair apportionment
[2:11:58] requirement that the courts have
is that the amount charged is
[2:12:07] less than the benefit received.
[2:12:09] And the courts will look
at that for each property
[2:12:14] owner that pays the charge.
[2:12:16] They will not look
and say, well,
[2:12:18] what about that other
person over there.
[2:12:21] In fact, there's very
explicit language.
[2:12:24] And you mentioned some of the
cases the folks driving through.
[2:12:27] I think that was the
Winter Springs case.
[2:12:31] Thank you.
[2:12:32] I'm so glad to have Olivia.
[2:12:33] Thank you.
[2:12:34] Because I have more
gray in my beard.
[2:12:36] People think I know
all the information,
[2:12:38] but that's usually not true.
[2:12:41] But there's also, I think,
another great quote.
[2:12:44] I think it was in
the Boca Raton case,
[2:12:45] or it could have been
the Sarasota case.
[2:12:47] Both were Florida Supreme Court
cases where the court said
[2:12:50] it's fine to explicitly exclude
churches from the assessment
[2:12:54] methodology.
[2:12:55] And we're not
concerned that they
[2:12:58] also benefit from the proposal.
[2:13:01] We're excluding them.
[2:13:02] And the analysis is not whether
they also get a benefit.
[2:13:05] The analysis is, hey,
let's look at the folks
[2:13:08] who are paying the assessment.
[2:13:10] Do they get a benefit that
exceeds the cost they're paying.
[2:13:13] They're paying.
[2:13:13] And so one way to think about
that in if this goes down
[2:13:17] the road and there's actual
fiscal planning that goes
[2:13:19] into it, is to recognize you do
have current sources of funding.
[2:13:24] State share gas tax revenue.
[2:13:26] What you do put in from
your ad valorem revenue
[2:13:30] that you would continue
to use to solve
[2:13:33] your road infrastructure
maintenance backlog.
[2:13:38] And that the so you're not.
[2:13:41] You're not creating an
assessment on property owner
[2:13:44] a to pay for a benefit for
property owner B got it.
[2:13:47] So the math isn't
just the math is
[2:13:49] significantly more complicated
than what are our fiscal needs.
[2:13:54] Let's divide them by the number
of commercial property spots.
[2:13:57] The math can't be that simple.
[2:13:59] You're correct.
[2:13:59] OK thank you.
[2:14:00] 
[2:14:04] I have a question
for you, please.
[2:14:06] So I think one of the
general guidelines
[2:14:10] here is that my commercial
property has to be fronting
[2:14:15] right upon the road that's
in question that we're
[2:14:17] going to use our revenue for.
[2:14:18] Is that correct.
[2:14:20] I do not believe
that's the case.
[2:14:21] I think you could have a city
wide road maintenance program
[2:14:26] that is funded in this way.
[2:14:29] Again, when you've
studied the problem,
[2:14:33] the benefit exceeds the
amount of the charge,
[2:14:37] but there's not there isn't a
test on a geographic proximity.
[2:14:41] OK I think where I'm
heading with this
[2:14:43] is I know that we have
a main thoroughfare
[2:14:46] through ST Pete Beach.
[2:14:47] Gulf Boulevard, blind pass,
out, out 75th to Pasadena.
[2:14:51] These are all state owned
roads, are not roads
[2:14:53] that we maintain right now.
[2:14:54] We don't have a cost to
the city on those roads.
[2:14:57] And yet, I know many,
many of our businesses
[2:15:00] are right adjacent
to those roads.
[2:15:03] You're telling me that to
maintain roads beyond that one,
[2:15:05] which aren't in our maintenance
structure right now,
[2:15:08] we could still theoretically
charge an assessment
[2:15:12] against those businesses that
don't use that road that we're
[2:15:16] maintaining that's literally a
quarter mile away in the back
[2:15:18] of some neighborhood somewhere.
[2:15:19] Is that what you're
suggesting to me.
[2:15:20] Yes and the way to
think about this,
[2:15:23] and again, you
would need somebody
[2:15:26] with the professional
credentials
[2:15:27] to make this analysis.
[2:15:28] I'm not that person.
[2:15:29] But I've given enough
thought to maybe sketch
[2:15:31] some of the outer perimeters.
[2:15:33] Is the folks who go
to those businesses,
[2:15:36] they don't just travel
on Gulf Boulevard.
[2:15:38] And our transportation system,
you've got feeder roads,
[2:15:41] collector roads, arterioles.
[2:15:42] You don't just get
where you're going
[2:15:44] by driving along the arterial.
[2:15:46] That might be the last step
in your transportation trip.
[2:15:50] But of course, all
those other roads
[2:15:52] work together as a network.
[2:15:54] Gulf Boulevard doesn't work if
the other roads don't also work.
[2:15:57] Understood thank you.
[2:15:58] 
[2:16:02] Thank you very much
for your time today.
[2:16:04] We appreciate it.
[2:16:04] And I'll just close
by saying we really
[2:16:06] appreciate the opportunity
to interact with you.
[2:16:08] Your city manager has just
been absolutely fantastic.
[2:16:11] Gil has been absolutely
fantastic in giving us
[2:16:13] their time so that we had
the information we needed
[2:16:16] to go through this research,
and it's been a great experience
[2:16:18] for the students.
[2:16:19] Professor Hawkins MS
Gunther, thank you so much
[2:16:21] for your analysis today.
[2:16:23] We appreciate you.
[2:16:24] Thank you.
[2:16:24] Thank you.
[2:16:27] OK city clerk, I understand the
next presentation is the Boca
[2:16:30] ciega drive reconstruction.
[2:16:31] Design direction.
[2:16:32] 
[2:16:39] Thought you were going
to give the presentation.
[2:16:40] 
[2:16:44] Yes good evening.
[2:16:47] Mayor commissioners.
[2:16:49] For the record, Camden Mills,
public services director.
[2:16:51] I appreciate your
time this evening
[2:16:53] to discuss the Boca ciega
drive reconstruction project
[2:16:56] and appreciate your feedback
to guide us on progressing
[2:17:00] the design on this project.
[2:17:03] So the project limits that
we're looking for here is from
[2:17:07] 75th Avenue to 87th Avenue.
[2:17:10] Currently, this roadway is
posted speed limit of 25.
[2:17:14] The pavement is in
a poor condition.
[2:17:17] The reclaimed water services
throughout this corridor
[2:17:20] are at the end of
useful life, and
[2:17:22] there is minimal
drainage infrastructure
[2:17:25] throughout these limits.
[2:17:28] This typical section here.
[2:17:30] This just shows you a rough
idea of the area between
[2:17:33] 77th Avenue and 80th Avenue.
[2:17:36] I kind of want to lay out what
our existing conditions are,
[2:17:39] what was previously designed,
and then an alternative
[2:17:42] that was previously presented.
[2:17:45] So in these existing conditions,
we have a 60 foot right of way,
[2:17:49] about 11 foot travel lanes.
[2:17:51] On the West Side.
[2:17:52] We have a three foot shoulder.
[2:17:53] And then on the
East side, we have
[2:17:55] a 2 foot shoulder with curb.
[2:17:57] And then on the West
side of the right of way,
[2:18:00] there is an existing
sidewalk that
[2:18:02] ranges from 4 to feet in width.
[2:18:05] So in total here we have about
26 foot of actual pavement width
[2:18:09] and about 29 feet
from Curb to curb.
[2:18:14] This typical section here shows
you in that same area between
[2:18:18] 77th and 80th Avenue,
of what was previously
[2:18:22] designed for this project.
[2:18:24] So this project, the goals were
to achieve lower vehicle speeds
[2:18:28] and then also to increase
pedestrian and bicycle safety.
[2:18:33] With this proposed layout,
the curb to curb width
[2:18:37] decreased from about
29 feet down to 24.
[2:18:41] The scope of this
project included
[2:18:44] the 10 foot wide
travel lanes in lieu
[2:18:46] of the 11 foot existing lanes.
[2:18:49] It included a 10 foot
wide multi-use path
[2:18:52] that would be utilized by
pedestrians and bicycles.
[2:18:55] And then the project also
proposed new curbs and gutters,
[2:18:59] new reclaimed water service,
new stormwater infrastructure,
[2:19:03] as well as landscaping.
[2:19:05] As I mentioned, this
project was previously
[2:19:07] designed and permitted.
[2:19:09] We advertised a request for
bid for construction services
[2:19:13] back in December of 2023.
[2:19:16] That closed in February of
24 and 2 bids were received.
[2:19:20] The low bid that was
received was at $5.4 million.
[2:19:24] And just to give you a rough
summary on the breakdown
[2:19:27] of that, the roadway
components of that 5.4
[2:19:30] was about $2.2 million dollars.
[2:19:32] The sidewalk component
was about 462,000.
[2:19:36] And then the drainage
infrastructure,
[2:19:39] including the new curb and
gutters, was about $1.3 million.
[2:19:44] This contract was brought to
the city commission for approval
[2:19:47] in March of 2024,
and at that time,
[2:19:51] the construction contract was
not approved to move forward.
[2:19:55] Some of the feedback received
from looking at those meeting
[2:19:59] minutes was really the main
concern was to repave the road
[2:20:02] and prepare those conditions,
fix sidewalks where necessary,
[2:20:09] leave the width of the road
with the width of the road
[2:20:12] alone, and then
put in speed tables
[2:20:14] and then ultimately reduce
cost after the feedback
[2:20:19] from that March
meeting was received.
[2:20:21] The engineer consultant
that designed that project
[2:20:24] took that feedback in hand and
proposed a new alternative,
[2:20:29] essentially that alternative.
[2:20:30] The main change there was
decreasing that 10 foot
[2:20:32] wide sidewalk down to 5 foot.
[2:20:35] So keeping in line with
the traffic calming
[2:20:38] measures to narrow
the pavement width
[2:20:40] and narrow those travel lanes.
[2:20:42] So again, the scope included
the 10 foot wide travel
[2:20:45] lanes as the traffic
calming measure,
[2:20:47] the 5 foot wide sidewalk.
[2:20:49] And it still included the
new curbs and gutters,
[2:20:52] the new reclaimed water
service and the stormwater
[2:20:55] infrastructure and landscaping.
[2:20:58] These following
slides, these just
[2:21:00] show that same type of design
with moving from that 10 foot
[2:21:04] wide multi-use
path and narrowing
[2:21:06] it down similar to
existing conditions
[2:21:08] with that 5 foot sidewalk.
[2:21:11] So here is from
75th Avenue to 76.
[2:21:14] You can see the turn
lane there, and also
[2:21:17] an existing sidewalk on the
East side of the right of way.
[2:21:21] Then we moved to between
76 Avenue and 77th Avenue.
[2:21:25] Again, you see the 5 foot wide
existing sidewalks and then
[2:21:29] in the shared use travel
lanes that would be
[2:21:31] used by bicycles and vehicles.
[2:21:34] Then we moved to 77th
Avenue to 80th again.
[2:21:38] What you'll notice here
with that decreased pavement
[2:21:40] width moving from
that 29 foot curb
[2:21:43] to curb down to
around 24 foot, that
[2:21:46] allowed for
additional open space
[2:21:48] for stormwater improvements.
[2:21:52] And then from 80th Avenue to
87th Avenue again here that
[2:21:56] additional reducing
that curb width allowed
[2:21:58] for some additional open space.
[2:22:00] And in this cut section here
you see a swale proposed.
[2:22:04] So tonight staff would
like to seek Commission's
[2:22:07] direction on next steps.
[2:22:09] In your recommendations for
what type of typical section
[2:22:12] we reference so we can
progress with the design.
[2:22:15] We outlined a few
options here to consider.
[2:22:18] Option A is the original design
that was previously designed
[2:22:21] and permitted, with the 10
foot travel lanes and the 10
[2:22:24] foot wide multi-use path.
[2:22:27] Option B That is the previous
alternative that the engineer
[2:22:31] updated, where they reduced
that sidewalk from the 10 feet
[2:22:34] down to the 5 foot, but
still kept the 10 foot
[2:22:37] wide shared use travel lanes
and some of those traffic
[2:22:40] calming measures.
[2:22:42] And then option C, we're open
to consider any additional
[2:22:45] alternatives that you see fit.
[2:22:48] For instance, we could
keep the conditions
[2:22:50] as is and not have stormwater
or traffic calming improvements.
[2:22:56] As far as timeline.
[2:22:57] Our goal would be to update
the design in fiscal year 26,
[2:23:01] so we could move towards
procurement in fiscal year
[2:23:03] 27 when full funding
is available.
[2:23:06] And then the construction
time frame for this project
[2:23:08] would be about 18 months.
[2:23:10] That's based on the prior
contract bid that we received.
[2:23:14] I would note that we
do have a $1.5 million
[2:23:17] grant from the Florida
Department of Transportation
[2:23:21] that expires in
September of 2027.
[2:23:25] Some of those components
of that grant requirement
[2:23:28] of what was outlined
in that scope
[2:23:30] was replacing the
curb and gutter.
[2:23:32] Reducing the risk.
[2:23:33] The width of the travel lane.
[2:23:35] Adding a mid-block crossing
near the recreational center.
[2:23:39] Having the shared lane.
[2:23:41] Bicycle markings.
[2:23:42] Having a landscaped buffer
between the sidewalk
[2:23:45] and the travel lane.
[2:23:47] Adding speed tables at 77th
Avenue and 84th Avenue, as well
[2:23:52] as an 8 foot wide sidewalk.
[2:23:54] So if we were going to deviate
from the scope in that grant,
[2:23:58] we would report that back to the
FDOT for their consideration.
[2:24:05] Staff's recommendation
based on the feedback
[2:24:08] that I was able to
review at the meeting,
[2:24:10] minutes would be option B.
I think that keeps in line
[2:24:13] with the intent of the
grant that was awarded,
[2:24:16] where we're providing
the stormwater benefits
[2:24:18] and the traffic
calming benefits.
[2:24:20] But it also eliminates that 10
foot wide shared use sidewalk
[2:24:24] and keeps in line with more of
the existing 5 foot sidewalk.
[2:24:28] Keeping that existing sidewalk
width we wouldn't have to.
[2:24:32] Replace the sidewalk all the
way throughout the corridor.
[2:24:34] We'd be able to.
[2:24:35] Kind prioritize
where that sidewalk
[2:24:37] needs to be replaced
in an effort
[2:24:39] to try and cut down costs there.
[2:24:42] But with that, I'm
open to any feedback
[2:24:44] or recommendations you have.
[2:24:46] 
[2:24:49] Commissioner Robinson.
[2:24:50] Have we thought about I mean, I
was involved in this initially
[2:24:54] because it was Boca
ciega drive, but it
[2:24:57] ended up being on that side.
[2:24:58] But I know everybody was
against the 10 foot sidewalk
[2:25:03] simply because it's such a
short driveway that anybody
[2:25:08] on that does have already.
[2:25:10] So it kind of forced the
back end of your car to be
[2:25:13] in the middle of a sidewalk.
[2:25:15] With that also said, I think
the main things were exactly
[2:25:19] as you pointed out, which
haven't changed, which
[2:25:22] is paving the road and
getting traffic calming
[2:25:25] and fixing the stormwater.
[2:25:28] The question I have
is I like the idea
[2:25:29] of using the existing
sidewalks, but I don't believe
[2:25:32] they're 5 foot right now.
[2:25:33] Are they.
[2:25:34] Some are.
[2:25:34] Some are four foot.
[2:25:35] So where this 4 foot we would
expand which is within ADA
[2:25:41] compliance anyway at 48.
[2:25:43] Correct So you're fine there.
[2:25:47] So keeping the existing
sidewalks and doing maintenance.
[2:25:50] That's what we haven't
seen done on them.
[2:25:53] I'm a temporary living
in a different community
[2:25:56] and they definitely do
maintenance on their sidewalks.
[2:25:58] They've replaced they've
done a lot of work on that.
[2:26:02] So I've been very
impressed on that.
[2:26:04] But the 210 foot lanes.
[2:26:06] I like that idea to gain
because that will add
[2:26:11] to the traffic calming
and also will gain
[2:26:14] get a bit of a 2 foot gain.
[2:26:17] Is there a way to stick a
5 foot bike lane in there.
[2:26:21] A bike lane would
be a little bit
[2:26:23] difficult to fit in that width.
[2:26:25] Now, there's this three foot
shoulder that's currently
[2:26:28] being utilized as a bike lane.
[2:26:29] But according to the
design standards,
[2:26:32] it doesn't meet the width.
[2:26:33] A bike lane would need to
be four foot wide minimum,
[2:26:36] and if there's a barrier or
curb right up against that,
[2:26:39] then it would need
to be 5 foot wide.
[2:26:41] So in this typical section
with the layout that we have,
[2:26:45] if we would look to have that
minimum four foot wide bike
[2:26:48] lane on each side, then
our travel lanes would be
[2:26:51] reduced to about 9 foot wide.
[2:26:52] I'm talking one bike lane,
not two 1 5 foot bike lane.
[2:26:56] So if you do 210 foot, which
there are currently 11,
[2:27:00] you gain two feet there and
then it's currently three foot.
[2:27:03] So then if you add that 2 to the
3' you get a 5 foot bike lane.
[2:27:08] The bike lane,
you could do that.
[2:27:09] Your bike lane would be one way.
[2:27:11] You wouldn't be
you wouldn't have
[2:27:12] a two way bike lane with that.
[2:27:14] But yeah, but that's certainly
the usage is something else.
[2:27:17] I mean, as far as it actually
being I understand it being one
[2:27:21] way or considered one way, but
we also talk about shouldn't
[2:27:25] be riding on sidewalks.
[2:27:27] And then the last director
said that people can ride
[2:27:31] on sidewalks on their bikes.
[2:27:33] And I see people walking or
driving or riding their bikes
[2:27:38] in the opposite direction
or towards oncoming
[2:27:41] traffic all the time.
[2:27:43] I mean, it's something
that's not really policed,
[2:27:46] but it does happen.
[2:27:47] But just a thought to add
that bike lane in there
[2:27:50] and whether the community,
because there was
[2:27:52] a lot of conversation
about having
[2:27:55] a bike lane up and down from
all the way down the connector.
[2:28:00] OK Mr. Causey.
[2:28:06] Camden so current
flooding complaints.
[2:28:14] So this is part of this
is to address the flooding
[2:28:18] improvements for the road.
[2:28:19] Where is there
residential or otherwise.
[2:28:23] Complaints about the
water on the road.
[2:28:27] Yes, sir.
[2:28:28] And in particularly standing
water, after rainfall events,
[2:28:32] the water kind of pools
and accumulates in an area,
[2:28:35] adding that curb and gutter
to direct that flow and then
[2:28:38] ultimately into some retention
areas or underground storage
[2:28:42] would be proposed
in this project.
[2:28:44] So you possibly could solve that
with just repaving and grading
[2:28:49] where it runs off to some.
[2:28:51] I mean, it goes nowhere
now, because there's
[2:28:55] no storm drains there.
[2:28:57] There is some storm
drains, but it's minimal.
[2:29:00] What was proposed in
the previous design
[2:29:02] was to add additional
curb inlets.
[2:29:04] And then with moving that
West Side curb line tighter.
[2:29:08] So to reduce that
pavement, that created
[2:29:10] some additional open space.
[2:29:11] So there's some areas
where the pavement there
[2:29:14] was curb cuts so runoff
would be able to flow.
[2:29:17] And then infiltrate into those
open space grassed areas.
[2:29:22] So if we were to keep
conditions existing the same
[2:29:25] and keep the curb
exactly where it is,
[2:29:27] it does alleviate the
ability to provide
[2:29:29] some of that extra
stormwater runoff benefit.
[2:29:32] So you're looking at running
water off into the side
[2:29:36] with a depression on the side.
[2:29:38] And there's not an outfall
going into the canal.
[2:29:42] Eventually there
it would be swale.
[2:29:44] Swale that would be
interconnected to an inlet
[2:29:47] that would ultimately
discharge to the Bay.
[2:29:51] And the other question is, as
far is that part of that road
[2:29:55] seems to be used for
Heron events for parking.
[2:30:00] For you repeat that please.
[2:30:01] I believe I see a lot of
people parking along there
[2:30:05] for the events that
happen at the park,
[2:30:09] and I was just curious to know
what effect that would have,
[2:30:13] if any, on parking if we
made the roads smaller,
[2:30:19] or we add a bike lane or
any changes we make to it,
[2:30:24] we would try to
maintain the same areas
[2:30:26] that we have parking currently.
[2:30:28] If there be any
impacts to parking,
[2:30:29] we'd certainly present that.
[2:30:31] So I have you guys
thought about the parking
[2:30:34] relative to park
events right now.
[2:30:37] I believe the current design
was to maintain the side street
[2:30:41] parking where there currently
is, where the angled parking is.
[2:30:46] I don't believe it
proposed additional parking
[2:30:48] for special events.
[2:30:50] That's all right.
[2:30:55] Are you asking
about the parking.
[2:30:57] Not in the parking space.
[2:30:58] I am, I am, I am asking about.
[2:31:00] So when you narrow the
road, what I'm assuming,
[2:31:03] would that turn into
a no parking zone.
[2:31:05] It could.
[2:31:06] And it would have
a more defined curb
[2:31:08] than what's there currently.
[2:31:10] The curb that is there now
is easily drivable to ramp
[2:31:14] up onto that open space area.
[2:31:16] If you had a more defined curb
and a different curb type,
[2:31:20] you'd probably have people less
willing to drive up over that.
[2:31:23] Well, have you is
there any consideration
[2:31:26] for allowing for parking for
accommodate the park events.
[2:31:30] Because it seems to be a big we
haven't got into that far detail
[2:31:35] at this point.
[2:31:36] We're kind of just high
level typical section
[2:31:39] discussion Mr. Marriott sure.
[2:31:44] Thanks, Camden.
[2:31:45] So I have a couple questions
and I think you just answer it
[2:31:48] in one of them, which is
that anywhere where there is
[2:31:51] currently only street
parking for residential uses
[2:31:56] that would be maintained
regardless of what we're
[2:31:59] calling a typical section.
[2:32:01] So there's a condo between
77th and 78th where all
[2:32:08] of their parking is on the sides
of Boca ciega on both the East
[2:32:13] and West sides of the street.
[2:32:16] And then further down
Boca ciega at about.
[2:32:22] Oh, gosh.
[2:32:22] Where is it between 80th
and 81st or 81st and 82nd?
[2:32:28] There are several little
fourplexes and duplexes
[2:32:31] that have absolutely no
parking, except for parking
[2:32:34] on the West side of Boca ciega.
[2:32:37] And so, regardless
of any direction
[2:32:40] we give about a typical section,
would all of that parking
[2:32:43] get maintained.
[2:32:44] That's correct.
[2:32:45] Yep so between in
that 77 to 70 8
[2:32:48] Avenue, that angled
parking would
[2:32:50] be proposed to be maintained.
[2:32:52] And then around
80th, that parallel
[2:32:54] parking on the West Side would
be proposed to be maintained.
[2:32:56] OK perfect.
[2:32:57] And then the other concerns that
I've heard from residents who
[2:33:01] live on that street
with going to a 10 foot
[2:33:05] shared travel lane, is that one.
[2:33:09] Once you have a 10
foot lane with a really
[2:33:10] defined curb and gutter.
[2:33:12] You no longer have anywhere
for a landscaping truck with
[2:33:17] a trailer to get off the road.
[2:33:19] So as soon as you
have somebody have
[2:33:22] a landscape guy pull up with his
trailer and unload his mowers.
[2:33:26] He is in the travel lane,
completely in the travel lane
[2:33:29] because it's 10 foot right
up to the curb and gutter.
[2:33:32] And then when you combine
that with the school
[2:33:34] drop off line in the
morning, all of a sudden you
[2:33:39] have a road that probably
nobody can even know.
[2:33:42] Nobody can get down
either direction.
[2:33:44] And so those are
the biggest concerns
[2:33:48] that I've heard from residents
with the 10 foot travel lanes.
[2:33:51] And that real defined
curb and gutter
[2:33:53] is that we're going
to create a situation
[2:33:55] where we're going to cause more
problems than we're solving.
[2:34:00] And I know that the
residents on Boca ciega
[2:34:02] are definitely concerned
about the speed of travel.
[2:34:04] That is one of their concerns.
[2:34:06] But I don't think anybody wants
to turn the speed of travel
[2:34:10] from too fast to 0 because you
can't get down the road at all.
[2:34:16] And so, I'm not certain
what the answer to that
[2:34:22] is other than we keep the road
and the extra wide like an
[2:34:29] extra wide gutter that we have.
[2:34:32] So that.
[2:34:33] So that's a more traveled road.
[2:34:37] Unless we're going to do
something crazy make it one way
[2:34:40] and force the school drop off
to go the other direction.
[2:34:45] But if we're not going to
force the school drop off to go
[2:34:49] the other way or make the street
southbound only North of 77th
[2:34:54] or something like that, I don't
see how we make the lanes 10
[2:34:59] feet wide and still keep it
usable for the way people
[2:35:02] live in the neighborhood.
[2:35:04] Understood so I have
just a few comments.
[2:35:11] I think about as much as I
like the idea of a bike lane,
[2:35:16] if we can't accommodate
two separate bike lanes,
[2:35:18] I fear two bikers
coming at each other.
[2:35:21] One of them comes out into
the road or something.
[2:35:22] And now we've got an issue where
somebody went avoiding a bike
[2:35:26] and ended up in
the road somewhere.
[2:35:28] So I like the idea.
[2:35:29] I like the thinking.
[2:35:30] I just worry about that from a
perspective, what I did here.
[2:35:34] I like the storm, stormwater,
storm, fallout, outfalls.
[2:35:37] I'd love to see that increased
and get better drainage off
[2:35:41] of our streets in general.
[2:35:42] So I'm generally a
proponent of that.
[2:35:45] What I'm hearing is that there's
significant concerns that
[2:35:49] have been expressed
by the commissioners
[2:35:51] to my right about traffic being
able to get off that road.
[2:35:55] And in the instance that a
maintenance truck or something
[2:35:57] needs to get off the road,
must we have a very hard curb
[2:36:00] cut like that that's
straight up and down,
[2:36:02] or can we still have
outfalls and still
[2:36:04] have all the things
we're talking about
[2:36:05] and not have a
really hard curb cut.
[2:36:07] We could look at different
curb options there.
[2:36:10] OK OK.
[2:36:13] OK I think there currently
a drop curb on one side
[2:36:17] and a regular curb on the other.
[2:36:18] Correct yeah.
[2:36:19] So you're basically
keeping the same.
[2:36:23] Thank you.
[2:36:23] 
[2:36:26] Is there a way to consider
adding additional parking
[2:36:30] along that road on one
side or the other, instead
[2:36:33] of the grass median.
[2:36:35] We can look into that.
[2:36:37] I'd have to look into
the design further
[2:36:38] before I can commit
one way or the other,
[2:36:40] but we can explore that.
[2:36:41] 
[2:36:46] Thank you.
[2:36:47] We appreciate your time today.
[2:36:48] Thank you.
[2:36:48] I just want to
clarify, I'm not sure I
[2:36:50] heard you need to give them
some direction on anything.
[2:36:53] OK Yep sorry.
[2:36:55] So just for clarity,
it doesn't sound
[2:36:58] like you like any of the
options that we've presented.
[2:37:00] And you want us to go back
and redesign considerations
[2:37:05] of different curb cuts.
[2:37:06] More parking.
[2:37:07] 
[2:37:10] I'll say this I
personally like option
[2:37:11] B with different curb cuts.
[2:37:13] I don't like the
straight up down.
[2:37:14] I think what I heard is that
may cause us other problems
[2:37:18] that maybe we
weren't anticipating.
[2:37:19] So I like the idea of option B
with a curb cut where feasible.
[2:37:24] But, yeah, I think option
A is a definite no.
[2:37:29] I don't think anybody's in favor
of option AI think option B is
[2:37:37] reasonable if we
have a way to not
[2:37:42] force somebody who's stopping
on the road to block traffic.
[2:37:46] And if that's some kind of
different curb gutter system
[2:37:50] that allows people to pull
a little bit off the side
[2:37:53] of the road or a little
bit bigger shoulder,
[2:38:01] I don't know what the
right words are, I guess.
[2:38:03] But are you essentially
looking for the use
[2:38:06] as it is right now, where
someone parks not really
[2:38:09] in someone's driveway, but they
pull halfway over the driveway.
[2:38:13] Yeah cut out.
[2:38:14] Yeah and are you camden?
[2:38:17] Are you saying that's feasible
for drainage purposes.
[2:38:21] I think we can look into that.
[2:38:22] Yeah OK.
[2:38:23] I think we can take option B
and modify it based on some
[2:38:26] of these recommendations.
[2:38:28] OK I would point, since
that design was done,
[2:38:32] there was a lot of effort and
money put into that design.
[2:38:35] So as much as we can keep
some of those components,
[2:38:37] that's going to help the project
timeline and cost overall.
[2:38:39] Yeah I agree.
[2:38:42] I like saving the money
on the lesser of not
[2:38:46] doing the 10 foot sidewalks.
[2:38:48] That's going to be huge too.
[2:38:50] And just to confirm, we're not
looking at another bike lane.
[2:38:53] No one way bike.
[2:38:54] So the only design change
Camden's looking at
[2:38:58] is this curb cut out on one side
that can allow pull off the road
[2:39:04] and maybe look into if
it should be parking.
[2:39:10] I think we probably
only need that to 78th.
[2:39:13] We don't need
parking on that road.
[2:39:15] The entire length you're
just talking about close
[2:39:17] to the community center.
[2:39:19] Wherever you think
they use it already.
[2:39:22] And you mentioned
landscapers pulling off.
[2:39:24] Yeah, I guess they're
parking on the grass.
[2:39:26] Partly, yeah.
[2:39:27] 
[2:39:31] And I think already
in your designs is
[2:39:34] increased stormwater outfalls.
[2:39:36] That's already kind of baked in.
[2:39:37] Yes it's about curb cuts.
[2:39:38] So yes.
[2:39:39] All right.
[2:39:39] Yeah thank you.
[2:39:41] Thank you.
[2:39:42] 
[2:39:48] Just a reminder to please
speak into the microphones
[2:39:50] when you're speaking.
[2:39:51] Sorry, Renee.
[2:39:52] 
[2:39:54] All right.
[2:39:55] Next, I think we have a
presentation on the permit
[2:39:57] process update from Laura.
[2:39:59] We appreciate your
patience, Laura.
[2:40:00] Thank you.
[2:40:01] 
[2:40:09] Good evening, Mayor
and commissioners.
[2:40:11] Laura canary, community
development director.
[2:40:14] This evening I'm going to
be giving the update along
[2:40:16] with the innovation
or excuse me,
[2:40:18] technology strategy
and innovation
[2:40:19] director, Candice Galloway.
[2:40:21] She's really been helping
and instrumental in all
[2:40:24] of these process improvements.
[2:40:25] So I'm going to begin by
just going over again.
[2:40:28] Just a refresher.
[2:40:29] This is technically
the 90 day update.
[2:40:31] So since these series of
recommendations and process
[2:40:34] improvement recommendations
came forward,
[2:40:37] we said that we'd
come back in 90 days
[2:40:38] and give you all an update.
[2:40:40] We did come back and give you
a mini update a couple meetings
[2:40:43] ago, but this is that official
90 day progress update
[2:40:46] to show you what we've
achieved and what
[2:40:48] we still have ahead of us.
[2:40:50] Thank you.
[2:40:51] So beginning with the
volunteer exit interviews,
[2:40:54] these were interviews that we
conducted with the community
[2:40:56] development volunteers who
participated in helping with all
[2:41:00] of our permit processing and
all of the substantial damage
[2:41:03] determinations and all of that
here in the lobby at City Hall
[2:41:06] in the aftermath of the storms.
[2:41:08] And those interviews were,
first of all, very eye opening,
[2:41:12] because number
one, they were very
[2:41:15] aligned with what we had heard
with our internal stakeholders
[2:41:17] as well.
[2:41:18] And so what we've done is
what you see on the screen
[2:41:21] is I'll call them the key
opportunities for improvement.
[2:41:24] But this is really as we
synthesize all of the input
[2:41:28] that we received and looked
for those common denominators.
[2:41:31] These are our key takeaways.
[2:41:32] So again just creating those
simple permitting roadmaps,
[2:41:35] providing timeline
transparency, introducing
[2:41:39] automated notifications
for permit status changes.
[2:41:42] So where the applicant would
actually receive a notification
[2:41:45] when something
changes in the portal,
[2:41:47] standardized communication
templates across staff
[2:41:50] and volunteers, and then
expand volunteer training
[2:41:53] and reference materials.
[2:41:55] We did hear over and over
again, frankly, that people were
[2:41:57] kind of just thrown into it.
[2:41:59] There was one day
of training, which
[2:42:01] they had and were
very grateful for,
[2:42:03] but so many lessons learned.
[2:42:05] And one of the other key
takeaways is that moving
[2:42:07] forward, as we begin to
do our internal training,
[2:42:11] as far as with 4Runner
and substantial damage
[2:42:13] determinations, and
at certain points,
[2:42:15] it's going to make sense
to engage those volunteers
[2:42:18] continuously
throughout the year,
[2:42:19] not to wait until an event
happens so that again,
[2:42:22] we can all be more
prepared together for.
[2:42:26] Next, establishing
standards of communication.
[2:42:29] This was what we
ultimately rolled
[2:42:31] into what we're referring to as
our customer service standards.
[2:42:34] And so our customer
service standards
[2:42:35] are something that all of
our employees adhere to.
[2:42:38] And it's also given us
that SOP moving forward
[2:42:42] and shows, what our expectations
are from our permit techs
[2:42:45] and all of our staff and
the kind of public service
[2:42:48] that we want to deliver.
[2:42:50] 
[2:42:52] For servicing, same day permits
again, same day permits.
[2:42:56] I just want to emphasize that
we also will refer to them as
[2:43:00] express permits, because
sometimes they're actually
[2:43:02] they come in maybe
late in the day
[2:43:03] and they're issued the next day.
[2:43:05] Those types of permits that are
currently being issued as what
[2:43:08] we would refer to
as an express permit
[2:43:11] include water heaters,
panel upgrades,
[2:43:13] electric meters and specific
mechanical change outs.
[2:43:17] So when we think of
what can and can't be
[2:43:19] it really comes down to the
complexity of a project.
[2:43:22] So of course, sometimes if
it's an equal change out,
[2:43:25] yes, much more expedited.
[2:43:26] But if there's drawings
engineer drawings required,
[2:43:29] that's where you can
anticipate a longer review time
[2:43:31] and not that same
day permit issuance.
[2:43:35] And then as far as streamlining
the guidance and outreach
[2:43:39] on our really just the
timelines and the instructions
[2:43:43] and eligibility for contractors
and residents to as far as what
[2:43:49] types of permits can
be issued same day.
[2:43:51] One of the things
that we're doing,
[2:43:52] and we'll get to
this in a minute,
[2:43:54] is we have a series of website
updates and improvements
[2:43:57] that we've been making.
[2:43:58] So we're almost to what
I think of as the fun
[2:44:01] part of really making it more
of a revamped and dynamic pages.
[2:44:07] The first kind of stage was
really the cleanup and then
[2:44:10] the regulatory
stance, but next will
[2:44:13] be that really getting
showcasing the things that we
[2:44:16] really want to be able to
not only call attention
[2:44:19] to but make sure that
again, there's transparency
[2:44:22] and that everyone understands
what the expectations are.
[2:44:27] Establishing a single
point of contact.
[2:44:30] So I will say that I
think that this has been
[2:44:32] one of the most
successful kind of changes
[2:44:34] that we've implemented.
[2:44:35] Now, when a permit
application comes in,
[2:44:38] that permit application is
assigned to a permit tech,
[2:44:40] and that permit tech takes
it from start to finish.
[2:44:43] And so just having that
single point of contact
[2:44:46] has been very, very helpful.
[2:44:48] And we've gotten
some great feedback.
[2:44:50] We also have where
the permit the permit
[2:44:52] techs, depending on the specific
scope of work in the project.
[2:44:57] If they're asking for a
survey and it's been a day
[2:44:59] and they haven't gotten the
survey, they may not reach out.
[2:45:02] But again, just being mindful
and being on top of it
[2:45:04] and having that ownership and
accountability of those permits
[2:45:07] has been fantastic.
[2:45:09] And almost to the point where
we've seen some kind of permit
[2:45:12] techs take their kind of
territory and their permits
[2:45:14] very seriously.
[2:45:16] But it's been great
collaboration and teamwork,
[2:45:18] and we've seen some really good
metrics on the improvement side.
[2:45:25] For appointments, again,
you can make an appointment
[2:45:27] with the building official or
the deputy building official
[2:45:30] by calling the
number or emailing
[2:45:32] permits at ST. Pete Beach.
[2:45:33] We also extended the evening
hours on Wednesday until 5:30.
[2:45:38] And again, that
was just in essence
[2:45:40] to try and be more accessible.
[2:45:43] I will tell you that in the nine
weeks since we've implemented
[2:45:45] it, it's on Wednesdays only.
[2:45:48] And again, in the nine weeks
we've had 12 people total.
[2:45:52] Only one of those has been after
4:30 since we're open till 5:30.
[2:45:57] And so we are making
the recommendation
[2:45:59] and talking with
the administration.
[2:46:00] We think that it's probably
most feasible to just scale that
[2:46:03] back to 4:30, still
keep the extended hour,
[2:46:06] the hour and a half.
[2:46:07] But with regard to the
staff, it is overtime
[2:46:10] for the couple members.
[2:46:11] We always have at least
two here just for safety
[2:46:13] and security purposes,
but we haven't
[2:46:15] really seen that traction.
[2:46:17] Now, I will say that we are
going to be having a contractor
[2:46:20] roundtable focus
group, and so we
[2:46:23] hope to get additional
feedback from the contractors,
[2:46:25] because a lot of
this so far has been
[2:46:27] from the resident and resident
builder owner builders.
[2:46:31] So we want to make
sure that, again, we're
[2:46:34] hearing from the
contractors and seeing
[2:46:36] what they think would be most
accommodating to their needs
[2:46:39] as well.
[2:46:41] And I mentioned that
we were having I said
[2:46:44] the contractor focus group.
[2:46:45] But before that this Thursday
is going to be the building
[2:46:48] and permitting open
house here in chambers.
[2:46:52] And so that's really
intended to just
[2:46:54] be if you have any questions,
if you're stuck in the process,
[2:46:57] if you don't know
what to do next,
[2:47:00] we're even
emphasizing that we'll
[2:47:02] schedule a not on
the books inspection
[2:47:05] and have one of our inspectors
go out with you to your property
[2:47:07] and look at the situation
and be able to help
[2:47:10] you determine which route to
go and which steps to take.
[2:47:13] So this is really intended, of
course, to target the hurricane
[2:47:16] damage and repairs.
[2:47:18] But it's really open to anyone.
[2:47:19] So we'll have staff in here
from 8:00 to I believe,
[2:47:23] 11 o'clock AM.
[2:47:24] We'll have representatives from
the Pinellas recovers program.
[2:47:27] So they'll be here.
[2:47:29] And anyone interested in
any of their programming.
[2:47:32] Again, they have a series
of buckets of grant funding
[2:47:35] for residents and
business owners,
[2:47:38] so they'll be available
to answer questions
[2:47:40] and help anyone that's
interested in applying
[2:47:42] for those programs.
[2:47:43] 
[2:47:45] For consolidated reviews,
this is something,
[2:47:48] again, that we're working with.
[2:47:49] I'll call it our
multi-departmental
[2:47:51] interdisciplinary group,
because it's really
[2:47:54] those more complex projects
that require a planning
[2:47:56] review, a fire review.
[2:47:58] And when we started
really talking
[2:48:00] about a consolidated review
process, what we heard,
[2:48:04] especially from some of the
contractors that we spoke to is
[2:48:07] they really didn't want
us to sit on that review.
[2:48:09] If there was a review
available, they
[2:48:10] wanted made available
to them so they could
[2:48:13] start acting on it accordingly.
[2:48:15] However, what we
found along the way.
[2:48:17] And as we started peeling things
back and asking more questions,
[2:48:20] we found that some of it was
just the communication, the way
[2:48:23] that things were
looking in the portal
[2:48:25] and even just terminology.
[2:48:26] So for example, rather
than saying plan,
[2:48:30] review approved, complete.
[2:48:34] So things like
that, we've already
[2:48:36] implemented some changes.
[2:48:38] And then also identifying which
division it's been approved by.
[2:48:41] I know it sounds so
simple, but being
[2:48:43] able to say that planning,
has completed their review,
[2:48:47] it's not saying that your
application is approved yet,
[2:48:50] it's just saying that
they've completed it.
[2:48:52] And so again, we've been working
with innovation and technology
[2:48:55] to help us further be
able to whether it's
[2:48:58] a workaround in the
system, because again,
[2:49:00] we have to work with the system
that we have in place now.
[2:49:03] But if there's some low hanging
fruit and things like that,
[2:49:06] just terminology changes
that we can implement
[2:49:09] as well as how staff is
actually capturing it.
[2:49:13] You that consistency
is so important.
[2:49:15] So this is informing
our internal SOPs.
[2:49:18] And when Candace
gets to her part,
[2:49:20] you'll see that there's really
a lot of good documentation
[2:49:23] that not only is it going
to help us in the future,
[2:49:26] but it's informing our
day to day operations
[2:49:31] and then defining and monitoring
this standard timeline.
[2:49:34] So again, we have the regulatory
and statutory requirements
[2:49:37] for our review.
[2:49:38] And then we also have just
the reality of the situation.
[2:49:43] And what we found is that the
cleanest and most transparent
[2:49:45] way to do that is to
just be able to show
[2:49:48] you what the regulatory.
[2:49:51] What those timelines are
and then also be able to
[2:49:54] through the portal and through
what we're working with,
[2:49:56] innovation and
technology just show you
[2:49:58] in real time what those reviews
are and what time that's taking.
[2:50:02] So we'll get a little bit more
into that in a few moments.
[2:50:08] I mentioned the website updates.
[2:50:09] This has been I
can't thank Mark.
[2:50:12] Mark Portugal, our
communications manager, enough.
[2:50:14] He's been instrumental
in this process.
[2:50:17] And we also have a lead
technician, Ryan garbett,
[2:50:20] that's been will call our
website liaison because again,
[2:50:24] what we found in this process
is it's continuously evolving
[2:50:27] and we're frankly
never going to be done.
[2:50:29] The minute that I think that
it probably is somewhat good
[2:50:33] and you navigate the
site, pretty nicely, I
[2:50:36] think we'll be probably
needing some updates,
[2:50:39] so but we're breaking it up into
what I said these three stages.
[2:50:44] So the first stage was just
again, getting anything.
[2:50:46] I mean, frankly, I think what
happened is it wasn't maybe
[2:50:49] perfect before the storms.
[2:50:50] The storms happened.
[2:50:51] And then we had to get so much
information up on the site
[2:50:54] and quickly that it's
just there's so much
[2:50:58] and it's in multiple places.
[2:50:59] So we've had to go through and
just really remove anything
[2:51:02] that's just truly outdated
or needs to come off,
[2:51:05] or if it's causing more
confusion, get it off the site.
[2:51:08] And then with that,
though, there's
[2:51:10] a lot of documents
and forms that are
[2:51:12] associated with those links.
[2:51:14] So it's not like you can just
remove the link without updating
[2:51:16] the information.
[2:51:17] And so it creates kind
of a snowball effect.
[2:51:19] The next phase that we're
going to be entering
[2:51:21] is really now that we've started
removing so many things, just
[2:51:24] want to make sure that
we have everything
[2:51:25] that we need to have
statutorily up there.
[2:51:28] There were also some
changes with SB 180,
[2:51:31] specifically as it pertains
to how we're going to conduct
[2:51:34] our operations after a storm
and how quickly we can get back
[2:51:38] online, and how we're
going to get back
[2:51:40] to 40 hours of operation
as soon as feasible,
[2:51:43] things like that
are mandatory, that
[2:51:45] need to be front and center.
[2:51:47] And so that's this next stage.
[2:51:48] And then again, we'll come
to the more dynamic part.
[2:51:51] And really maybe we'll add a
couple pictures or something to
[2:51:54] the site or some infographics.
[2:51:56] And then again, we'll be
continuously on a monthly basis
[2:51:59] looking at updating that
site accordingly for
[2:52:05] the permit portal improvements.
[2:52:06] As I said, we're
ultimately going
[2:52:08] to be looking at potentially
issuing an RFP for a new portal
[2:52:12] and a new system.
[2:52:13] But for the time
being, we've just
[2:52:15] been using really any
quick wins that we
[2:52:18] can and any recommendations
from innovation and technology
[2:52:22] to be able to just
it's so important.
[2:52:25] What we found is just the
communication within the portal
[2:52:28] because it's only
as good as you know
[2:52:29] what you put what you get out is
only as good as what you put in.
[2:52:32] So that consistency
across the board,
[2:52:34] in those small little tweaks
that we've already made,
[2:52:36] has been tremendous in
helping us be able to,
[2:52:39] again, know where we're
at, where we're at now,
[2:52:41] to know where we want to be.
[2:52:45] And AI tool evaluation.
[2:52:47] This is something
that is aligned
[2:52:49] with in part with plan review.
[2:52:51] But also, as we
know, AI, there's
[2:52:53] so many different tools
available, especially
[2:52:55] in our line of work,
from plan review
[2:52:57] to how you can incorporate
it into as part of an AI
[2:53:02] work system or a platform.
[2:53:04] So what we've been doing is
leaning more into the experts
[2:53:08] to help us with that.
[2:53:09] And so we've just through
that interdisciplinary group,
[2:53:12] we've been trying to
bring in other disciplines
[2:53:15] to make sure that, again,
whatever software or technology
[2:53:18] we get in the future, that
we're not missing anything.
[2:53:21] It's really a strategic
approach to make
[2:53:23] sure that we're almost
I say that I was joking,
[2:53:27] but not really.
[2:53:28] I said, we're never going to
be able to issue an RFP again
[2:53:30] without almost doing again this
strategic process leading up
[2:53:34] to it because it's informing not
only the software that we need,
[2:53:37] but also how we can
improve our processes
[2:53:40] to marry up to that technology.
[2:53:44] And that RFP for the
permitting portal.
[2:53:47] Again, I work is
it's what we've had
[2:53:51] and we did go out
a few years ago
[2:53:53] and ultimately decided
to stay with iWork.
[2:53:55] But there's been a
series of there's just
[2:53:59] constantly new
technologies as it pertains
[2:54:01] to permitting software.
[2:54:03] And then, as you know, we
also have other new software
[2:54:06] such as forerunner that we
need to make sure is compatible
[2:54:09] and that the software platforms
are speaking to one another.
[2:54:13] So that's again where
Candace and her team
[2:54:16] really come into play.
[2:54:17] And making sure that, again,
we're thinking long term and not
[2:54:20] just a quick fix solution.
[2:54:24] I'm going to hand
it over to Kandace,
[2:54:26] and she's going to go into a
little bit more, particularly
[2:54:29] on the reporting
and the metrics.
[2:54:30] 
[2:54:36] Good evening, everyone.
[2:54:37] Candace Galloway way
ahead of technology
[2:54:41] and strategy and innovation
whatever else I'm asked to do.
[2:54:46] Hopefully you're getting the
sense that well, collaborative,
[2:54:48] and wear a lot of hats
and share responsibility
[2:54:51] pretty well across
our functions.
[2:54:54] So I'm here to support the
team and support the message
[2:54:58] that Laura's been conveying and
the work that her team is doing.
[2:55:00] And, clearly, we had a mandate
to a 30, 60, 90 day and 6 month
[2:55:08] report out to this group
that included a lot of things
[2:55:11] that Laura just discussed and
some things that I'm also going
[2:55:13] to discuss towards the end.
[2:55:15] But I think the things
that you're probably most
[2:55:17] interested in are kind of here.
[2:55:19] I've put them in the
middle, and that's really
[2:55:21] around growing our
metrics, maturity
[2:55:23] and the process around that.
[2:55:25] Clearly that's an important
component from a strategy,
[2:55:28] from a planning and
measuring and optimizing
[2:55:30] how we work as an organization.
[2:55:32] So we're going to talk a
little bit about that first.
[2:55:37] So this slide here is
just meant to give you
[2:55:39] a picture of the
last couple of years,
[2:55:42] our focus has been
very centralized
[2:55:45] on a lot of emergency and
disaster recovery metrics.
[2:55:49] And so, we were really focused
in the area where we wanted
[2:55:54] to see how long it was
taking to get from one phase
[2:55:57] to another in terms of damage
assessment, cisd assessment work
[2:56:03] and permitting around that.
[2:56:05] And the focus was really
thinking on our feet,
[2:56:09] ensuring that we're trying
our best, obviously,
[2:56:12] to get people permitted, get
those damage assessments done,
[2:56:16] get people back in their
homes and try to work really
[2:56:19] focused on disaster recovery.
[2:56:20] And so we've really
spent the last couple
[2:56:22] of years in that space.
[2:56:24] And our metrics reflected that.
[2:56:26] But clearly we're
moving in a direction
[2:56:29] where we need to look
more holistically.
[2:56:30] And so, our approach
needs to change with it.
[2:56:33] So the plan right now is
to move in a direction
[2:56:36] where we're going to start
looking more holistically
[2:56:38] about how we're looking at
operationalizing the way we work
[2:56:41] and how we're tracking
and measuring that.
[2:56:43] So this next slide
there's a lot here.
[2:56:49] But I think the key takeaway
is about where we are right now
[2:56:53] and before we actually
get into the metrics.
[2:56:54] So one of the things I
apologize I didn't call out
[2:56:57] is there might be one
or two of these slides
[2:56:59] that you're going to see
that are not in your packet.
[2:57:02] Not me on that one.
[2:57:03] Yep they're not in your packet.
[2:57:05] And so the reason they aren't is
because this stuff is evolving
[2:57:10] right now with us with you.
[2:57:12] So one of the things I wanted
to call out specifically
[2:57:15] on our approach is the goal is
to come back and be transparent,
[2:57:20] bring as much real
time information to you
[2:57:22] as we can, and there's
pros and cons to that.
[2:57:25] And part of the cons is we're
bringing you along for the ride.
[2:57:29] We're bringing you along with
the development and the strategy
[2:57:32] and the work that we're doing.
[2:57:34] So, you're going to be part
of that process as we go.
[2:57:37] And everything is
still evolving.
[2:57:40] I want to make that clear.
[2:57:42] As before, we get into
some of the metrics
[2:57:43] that you're going to see today,
because some of those things
[2:57:45] are going to change.
[2:57:48] So as I mentioned, we're
building a framework.
[2:57:51] We're bringing you along.
[2:57:52] We're bringing the
visibility to you early.
[2:57:56] But as I said, we're
going to those things
[2:57:58] are still in development.
[2:57:59] And it's really more of
a directional approach
[2:58:01] on the metrics.
[2:58:02] And to get some feedback
from you all, sorry,
[2:58:05] I'm having trouble
with this microphone.
[2:58:07] So I'm going to try to
get it down my direction.
[2:58:09] Hopefully you guys can
hear me still pretty well.
[2:58:13] The dashboard dashboarding.
[2:58:14] We've started that process.
[2:58:15] But the data is being refined.
[2:58:17] There's still a fair amount
to do to improve accuracy
[2:58:20] and to ensure that
it's the right metrics
[2:58:21] and the right set of metrics.
[2:58:23] So by no means is this final.
[2:58:26] And again, I think I already
stated it's not the end state.
[2:58:30] So we're going to be continuing
to work through that process
[2:58:34] overall where we're headed.
[2:58:36] Obviously, we want to
standardize the way that we
[2:58:40] define permit types,
permit definitions,
[2:58:43] workflows within the system.
[2:58:45] One of the things I will
tell you, as I've gotten more
[2:58:48] into the actual work of what's
happening in this organization,
[2:58:52] this is pretty
difficult. This takes
[2:58:54] a lot of critical thinking.
[2:58:55] It takes a lot of
time to sit down
[2:58:57] and map out what's happening
to get shared, gain alignment
[2:59:03] between the teams in terms
of just mere definitions, how
[2:59:08] people are using the system,
what statuses and states mean,
[2:59:11] how the workflows work.
[2:59:14] All of those things
are really the I
[2:59:16] think I mentioned
last time I was here,
[2:59:18] it's the non-sexy work.
[2:59:19] It's not really the fun
stuff that people like to do,
[2:59:21] but it's fundamentally what
we must be doing in order
[2:59:24] to effectively get a better
alignment and a directionally
[2:59:28] as a group move to
operationally improve ourselves.
[2:59:31] So where we're headed.
[2:59:34] Obviously I just mentioned
we're working on workflows.
[2:59:36] We're defining
permit definitions.
[2:59:38] We're going line
by line permit type
[2:59:41] by permit type in the system.
[2:59:42] And we're defining all of
that and documenting that.
[2:59:45] And I'll show you
that in a minute.
[2:59:47] And how we're trying to
memorialize that into a package
[2:59:49] that's going to be useful
for a number of reasons.
[2:59:52] We're using data already.
[2:59:54] So some of the metrics,
even though they're still
[2:59:56] in development, we're using
them, as Laura mentioned,
[2:59:59] they're driving some
of the training things
[3:00:00] that are happening
in the organization.
[3:00:02] They're driving some of the
opportunities for improvement
[3:00:05] and enhancement.
[3:00:06] So they're already helping
us find where we might have
[3:00:08] bottlenecks or
areas that we need
[3:00:10] to focus our attention in terms
of improvement and change.
[3:00:13] And obviously, we want
to build for a more
[3:00:15] modern and data driven model
overall, as we operate.
[3:00:20] All right.
[3:00:21] So the metrics.
[3:00:23] This first slide of metrics is
really just meant to show you
[3:00:28] the total number of permits.
[3:00:30] So what we decided to do is
start from January forward.
[3:00:33] So January of 2026.
[3:00:36] And after any
permits we're going
[3:00:39] to start reporting out to you.
[3:00:41] We're looking at permits
that were submitted,
[3:00:43] permit applications that were
submitted during that period.
[3:00:46] And, we're going to
obviously report out
[3:00:48] to you on a number of
states and statuses
[3:00:50] related to those permits,
anything older than that.
[3:00:52] So if it was submitted last
December or last October
[3:00:55] or last January, it's not
represented in these numbers,
[3:00:59] and we don't necessarily
intend to go back
[3:01:01] and do that legwork per se to
draw those into these metrics.
[3:01:06] Unless you are looking
for something specific
[3:01:08] and you want us to produce
something, we're happy to do it.
[3:01:11] But right now, I want you
to know it's not baked in
[3:01:13] and we're not necessarily
anticipating doing so.
[3:01:17] But this first slide
obviously shows you,
[3:01:19] and the reason that we're
putting two months up instead
[3:01:22] of 1 is because
obviously we have
[3:01:23] a couple months
underneath our belt
[3:01:25] from a reporting standpoint.
[3:01:26] So we've combined them.
[3:01:27] We intend to probably report
out on a monthly basis.
[3:01:30] So you'll be getting a
month over month view.
[3:01:33] Kind of on a go forward basis.
[3:01:35] This is meant to show
the mix of permit types.
[3:01:38] So one of the things
that you also see here
[3:01:40] is some categorization
on the permit types
[3:01:43] that aren't necessarily directly
representative of the permit
[3:01:47] types that are in the system.
[3:01:48] So a lot of the work
that we've put in to date
[3:01:52] is really around benchmarking
how other communities
[3:01:55] are rolling up their metrics.
[3:01:58] You certainly don't
want to sit here
[3:01:59] and look at 40
different categories
[3:02:00] and 40 different types of work.
[3:02:02] I assure you, that's not going
to be a useful of your time.
[3:02:05] So we're going
through the process
[3:02:07] right now of how do
we categorize these,
[3:02:09] the work, the types
of permits, and roll
[3:02:11] it up in a meaningful way.
[3:02:13] That is something that the
community can grasp onto.
[3:02:16] And so this is again, meant
to be a draft starting point.
[3:02:19] And we're looking for guidance
and feedback of what's
[3:02:21] going to resonate with
you all and what you
[3:02:23] think is going to be helpful.
[3:02:24] And resonate more
with the community.
[3:02:25] But right now we went from
basically 40 categories down
[3:02:29] to 15 at the moment, with
plans to continue to modify
[3:02:32] and refine that process.
[3:02:35] And then one other call out on
this particular slide before I
[3:02:38] go on metrics is we did report
on stop work orders and work
[3:02:42] without permits.
[3:02:43] Those aren't necessarily
a specific type of permit,
[3:02:45] but it was expressed
interest that we
[3:02:47] start showing some
of that information
[3:02:50] and provide that
transparency to you.
[3:02:51] So that's why those
are reported here.
[3:02:53] And we'll continue to do
that effectively as we go.
[3:02:57] All right.
[3:02:59] So the total permits issued.
[3:03:00] So this one is just giving you a
snapshot again month over month
[3:03:04] that we had a total of
97 permits in January
[3:03:07] that were issued.
[3:03:09] So that came in after
January and that were issued
[3:03:11] during the month of January.
[3:03:14] And then a total of 158 that
came in during the month,
[3:03:19] within the month
of or since January
[3:03:21] that were issued in February.
[3:03:22] So that would be a rolling
total right of month
[3:03:24] over month within February.
[3:03:26] It's not capturing just
those that came in February
[3:03:30] and issued in February.
[3:03:31] It's anything that was
issued in February.
[3:03:33] A total that were issued of 158.
[3:03:37] So it's a pretty substantial
increase month over month.
[3:03:40] It's technically 63% There's
a 61 number of permits
[3:03:45] that the team,
put out or issued.
[3:03:48] So the productivity
gain in February
[3:03:49] was significantly
higher than January.
[3:03:51] You had a few less days
to get that work out also.
[3:03:54] So it's a good indicator
that the team is kind
[3:03:57] of staying on top of the work.
[3:03:59] And we're maintaining
our traction
[3:04:01] in terms of the input and
the intake that's coming in
[3:04:03] and the outflow
from the Department.
[3:04:04] So some of the things that we're
trying to start using to help
[3:04:07] give us a little bit of
guidance on how the flow of work
[3:04:09] is happening and whether
we're able to stay on top
[3:04:12] and keep the intake
and outflow and stay
[3:04:14] on top of the actual work.
[3:04:16] 
[3:04:20] All right.
[3:04:21] So these have been
controversial in the past.
[3:04:23] I'm sure there's questions and
concerns about these today.
[3:04:28] But what I want to say
about this in particular
[3:04:31] is I spent a lot of
time on these slides
[3:04:34] and running this a
couple of different ways.
[3:04:37] So with the way that we have
rolled up the categorization,
[3:04:42] you can see there that
this outlines a 5.1
[3:04:45] average days to close
from submittal to issued
[3:04:50] for the month of January.
[3:04:52] So that probably feels
to many like that
[3:04:54] probably can't be true.
[3:04:56] Or that's how is that possible.
[3:04:59] But what I did to prove that
out in more detail is I actually
[3:05:03] and took these categories
away and just went back
[3:05:07] to our 40 categorization
of work and assessed
[3:05:10] all of those individual
permits that were coming in.
[3:05:14] And what you'll find is the
days may be increased a couple,
[3:05:19] I would say 7, eight days max.
[3:05:21] So there wasn't a big swing.
[3:05:22] We didn't start to see that.
[3:05:24] If we looked at these
numbers differently,
[3:05:26] or if we changed the way we
categorize this information.
[3:05:29] Large swings in
the number of days
[3:05:31] it was taking on average, to
get a permit from submittal to
[3:05:35] issued.
[3:05:36] All right.
[3:05:37] So one of the things that is
driving that largely is if you
[3:05:41] look at the higher
categories here,
[3:05:43] mechanical, electrical
and plumbing, those
[3:05:46] are fairly significant
large amount of work
[3:05:48] that we do in that space.
[3:05:49] We have a lot of permits
coming in for that.
[3:05:52] And those are going out at a
higher rate than many others.
[3:05:55] They're easier for the
teams to accomplish.
[3:05:57] Some of them are
equal change outs.
[3:05:58] So they're quicker.
[3:05:59] Some of them are
even the same day
[3:06:01] permits or similar same
year, same day permits.
[3:06:05] So those categories
in particular
[3:06:07] are going to influence obviously
the numbers more significantly
[3:06:11] than you would have.
[3:06:12] Maybe an elevation or elevation
is not a good example here.
[3:06:15] But if I go back we did have
some elevations to call out on.
[3:06:20] Yeah so we did have
some submitted.
[3:06:22] We had three.
[3:06:23] We had one in January.
[3:06:24] We had two in February.
[3:06:26] If you look at issued there's
0 in January and 0 in February.
[3:06:30] That means we've
not issued them.
[3:06:32] There's inflow no outflow.
[3:06:34] So they're still in review.
[3:06:36] They're still being worked.
[3:06:37] So we certainly have categories
that are much higher than 5.1
[3:06:41] days and the 10
days in February,
[3:06:43] but it's a very small number
in terms of the volume
[3:06:47] of permits that are coming in.
[3:06:49] That's going to continue to
drive the weight of those.
[3:06:51] The impact of that
on the average days
[3:06:53] to close down or excuse me.
[3:06:55] Yeah, up.
[3:06:56] So it's not going to
affect it nearly as much.
[3:06:59] So that's one kind
of important call out
[3:07:01] about this particular slide.
[3:07:03] Yes you said we're
going to jump in.
[3:07:05] Yeah please.
[3:07:06] One more thing that Candice
pointed out with the elevations
[3:07:09] in particular, she
went back and was
[3:07:11] able to look at when
those went into review
[3:07:14] because we wanted to make
sure that they were in review.
[3:07:16] And on average, for the three
of them, it was six days,
[3:07:19] one was eight days,
one was three days.
[3:07:21] So that was at least good to
know that they're in review.
[3:07:24] Because as we've
told you before,
[3:07:26] a lot of the delay
sometimes that we've seen
[3:07:28] is that time period before
it goes into review.
[3:07:31] And anyway, sorry, I
just wanted to add.
[3:07:33] 
[3:07:37] All right.
[3:07:38] Let's keep moving
here a little bit.
[3:07:40] So February, the days to issue
the average days to issue
[3:07:44] for those that were
completed during February
[3:07:46] went up to 10 days.
[3:07:47] Again, you might
think, OK, those
[3:07:49] on average that's going up.
[3:07:51] What is the impact of that.
[3:07:52] What does that signal
not necessarily a lot
[3:07:55] in terms of bad for us.
[3:07:57] And we'll talk about the
summary of this in a second.
[3:08:00] We clearly still
have even though we
[3:08:02] got many out in 10 days.
[3:08:03] You can see there's
categories driveway,
[3:08:05] demo pool and Spa taking
anywhere from 26.5 to 36.3.
[3:08:10] So again, we're rolling
it up, but we're also
[3:08:14] trying to be as transparent
with each individual set of data
[3:08:17] and category so that you can
see that we understand and we
[3:08:20] recognize that
clearly, there are
[3:08:21] some that are taking much longer
than these averages are showing.
[3:08:25] 
[3:08:30] All right.
[3:08:31] Let's go back.
[3:08:31] One second here.
[3:08:34] 
[3:08:37] I missed one.
[3:08:39] We did that.
[3:08:40] All right.
[3:08:41] Maybe we I'm trying to
make sure I have my.
[3:08:45] All right, let's go ahead.
[3:08:46] Do you want to talk a
little bit about maybe.
[3:08:48] Do you want to
spend a few minutes.
[3:08:49] Laura, we did talk about this.
[3:08:51] So this kind of gets down
to just a summary for you
[3:08:54] on some of those
ones that we know
[3:08:55] are in that higher category
that are taking longer,
[3:08:59] where we might have
some potential concerns.
[3:09:01] And Laura can talk a little
bit about the ones that
[3:09:03] are in these high potential
bottlenecks and some of the ones
[3:09:06] that are in the concern bucket.
[3:09:08] And of course, there's
some strong performers,
[3:09:10] as we've already talked about.
[3:09:11] But I think maybe Laura
can give a little bit
[3:09:13] more insight into potential
area of bottleneck.
[3:09:16] They're sure, it's easy
to say more complex,
[3:09:21] but I think that what's
key and when you start
[3:09:23] to look at driveways, demos,
pools and spas, as many of you
[3:09:26] know what's the
common denominator.
[3:09:28] You're talking about the
land development code.
[3:09:31] And a survey is needed
with all of these.
[3:09:34] There's also often a site
plan that's required.
[3:09:37] So again, more documentation,
more of a review process.
[3:09:41] But again looking at these and
trying to identify and get more
[3:09:46] into the details
of course of OK,
[3:09:48] well at what point in the
process because again,
[3:09:51] we have different divisions that
are looking at different things.
[3:09:55] And so is there a way
that we can expedite
[3:09:57] things on our end in any way.
[3:09:59] Because we don't want
to just say, well,
[3:10:02] we're waiting on the applicant.
[3:10:03] Although oftentimes if you
go into the portal and you
[3:10:06] when you really want to see what
that delay is, it's oftentimes
[3:10:09] and I'll tell you time and time
again, when I've went in there,
[3:10:12] I would say 9 times
out of 10, it's
[3:10:14] that there's something
on the applicant side
[3:10:16] that staff is waiting on.
[3:10:17] So it's basically delaying
the permit from going through.
[3:10:20] 
[3:10:23] But just a comment here.
[3:10:25] But if we go back to the
customer service and somebody
[3:10:30] calls them and tells them that
this is why that does help, that
[3:10:35] or should speed that along.
[3:10:38] To get that document.
[3:10:40] Makes sense.
[3:10:41] All right.
[3:10:42] So we talked about February.
[3:10:43] We talked a little bit
about the key insights here.
[3:10:46] This is just another
representation
[3:10:48] of the overall just on
a month side by side
[3:10:51] comparison just for
intake and outflow.
[3:10:54] So this was just meant
to give you that.
[3:10:55] Overall summary.
[3:10:58] The throughput did improve
despite continued strong demand.
[3:11:01] You can see that here in terms
of the outflow of the Department
[3:11:04] and the productivity
of the Department.
[3:11:08] Obviously, we are working on,
permit stage tracking and more
[3:11:12] work we're going to talk
about in a second in terms
[3:11:13] of outlining the process
in granular level of detail
[3:11:19] to strengthen our reporting out
to this group in the future.
[3:11:23] And we've made some
changes within iWork also.
[3:11:25] One of the things that you all
had asked for that we could not
[3:11:28] produce yet, but we are close
is getting from submittal
[3:11:31] to when it goes to in review.
[3:11:32] Now, we just mentioned
in elevation case
[3:11:35] I was able to give
you that information.
[3:11:37] There was three
of them in there.
[3:11:38] But right now, what we had to
do to get this is implement
[3:11:41] a fix in our system
to add a new field
[3:11:43] to capture in review,
which wasn't being captured
[3:11:46] before today or before now.
[3:11:47] So you can imagine that many of
these things that you're seeing
[3:11:50] here were generating work,
were going back and doing
[3:11:53] in the system so that we can
properly track status and report
[3:11:57] against these metrics.
[3:11:58] So we're very close
to having that.
[3:11:59] And hopefully next
month you'll start
[3:12:01] to see not only
submittal to issuance,
[3:12:03] but you'll see
submittal to in review.
[3:12:05] So we can start to break up the
segments of this entire flow,
[3:12:09] the life cycle of
the permit and 0
[3:12:11] in on where we have things that
are going well and working well,
[3:12:14] and areas that we need
to focus and improve.
[3:12:19] All right.
[3:12:21] All right.
[3:12:21] So this is just giving you
an overall summary on all
[3:12:24] of the metrics that you saw.
[3:12:26] Clearly, we know we
have an intake problem
[3:12:28] and we're going to
be focused there.
[3:12:30] When we look at technology
improvements and we
[3:12:32] look at some other tools.
[3:12:34] But, really the signal so
far is having 224 up to 250,
[3:12:40] the demand is still
high, but the team
[3:12:42] is staying on top of it.
[3:12:43] And the output from the teams
in terms of the issuance
[3:12:46] is staying at pace or
outpacing the intake.
[3:12:51] So that is a good sign
and a good signal for us.
[3:12:54] We issued more 61 more
permits month over month.
[3:12:57] So again the output
from the Department
[3:13:00] is significantly more.
[3:13:02] That's a good indicator of
operational changes and things
[3:13:04] that are happening
within the Department.
[3:13:06] All those improvements that
Laura just talked to you
[3:13:08] all about are gaining
ground in terms
[3:13:10] of the output and
the performance
[3:13:12] that you're seeing
with what we're
[3:13:13] delivering to the community.
[3:13:15] The backlog pressure
I just mentioned,
[3:13:18] we're hitting it
at we're issuing it
[3:13:20] at a faster rate than intake.
[3:13:21] So clearly that's important
to maintain our outflow.
[3:13:25] And then the overall
effort is paying off just
[3:13:28] because we have higher demand.
[3:13:30] In February, we had less
days to get work out.
[3:13:32] And we clearly still
significantly beat
[3:13:34] the mark on January
in terms of delivery
[3:13:37] for overall permit output.
[3:13:41] So those are the
metrics for today.
[3:13:43] One of the things I want to
say to you is, I did mention,
[3:13:46] this is hard stuff.
[3:13:47] This is difficult to get at.
[3:13:50] And it's something that's
critically important.
[3:13:53] It's all in development.
[3:13:54] So we hope that you'll
give us guidance,
[3:13:56] feedback around how you want to
start seeing this information
[3:14:00] and what types of
information to change
[3:14:02] or think about as
we're approaching this,
[3:14:05] we are benchmarking
across many other cities.
[3:14:07] I looked at least
15 other communities
[3:14:10] to see how they were
doing their roll UPS
[3:14:12] and how they were
reporting theirs out.
[3:14:14] And of those 15
communities, they were
[3:14:16] doing it 15 different ways.
[3:14:17] So what I gleaned from that
is the most important thing
[3:14:21] is that it resonates
with you all
[3:14:23] resonates with the community.
[3:14:24] And so we've got to get down to
ensuring that that's what we're
[3:14:28] focused on in terms of
coming up and talking
[3:14:31] to you all about metrics
or putting it in a report
[3:14:32] or putting it on a
dashboard on our website.
[3:14:34] So we are focused there.
[3:14:37] The last few slides, I'm going
to go through pretty quickly.
[3:14:39] You've seen most
of these before,
[3:14:41] at least at a high level.
[3:14:42] This was the last time
we went through this.
[3:14:45] We talked about an operating
blueprint and a set of materials
[3:14:48] that we're developing.
[3:14:49] And so I'm going to take you
through each one just briefly.
[3:14:52] So you have a feel
for what the work
[3:14:53] that's been going
on because there's
[3:14:55] a significant effort there.
[3:14:57] So one of the things
that we've been building
[3:14:59] is an operational service
blueprint, service map
[3:15:02] for the permitting life cycle.
[3:15:04] So essentially, we're
outlining an entire end to end
[3:15:08] permit life cycle process.
[3:15:11] We've working on coordinating
with all disciplines.
[3:15:15] We've met with most of
them, but there are still
[3:15:16] a few that we're working through
that we need to incorporate in.
[3:15:20] But you can see the image.
[3:15:21] It's a little bit
grainy, happy to share,
[3:15:24] if you want to review
it in more detail,
[3:15:26] happy to share it with you.
[3:15:28] But it's basically
a process flow
[3:15:29] map showing the end to
end stage of permitting
[3:15:32] as it moves through.
[3:15:33] We're using staff workshops.
[3:15:35] We're using surveys,
we're using the volunteer
[3:15:38] surveys that were done.
[3:15:39] We're getting ready to do that.
[3:15:40] Contractor focus
group, all of that
[3:15:42] is going to feed and
give us information
[3:15:44] to feed this process.
[3:15:46] And this will be
updated accordingly.
[3:15:49] Obviously, we're looking at
in-depth reviews of the system,
[3:15:52] the capabilities
of what we have,
[3:15:54] how the systems are being used,
what tools that the teams are
[3:15:57] using to accomplish the work.
[3:15:59] So that's going into the inputs
for this diagramming as well.
[3:16:03] Next up, we have to outline
the inspection process
[3:16:06] that is not identified here.
[3:16:07] So this takes us basically
through high level plan review.
[3:16:11] We've got to get
inspections baked in here.
[3:16:12] We don't have anything
from code baked in here.
[3:16:16] So we've got a fair amount of
work to do in those two spaces.
[3:16:19] We've got to finish
documenting the workflow
[3:16:21] and the system touch points.
[3:16:23] So where we're touching
the technology,
[3:16:24] what technology as I
mentioned is being used.
[3:16:26] What tool.
[3:16:27] For example, I know
scheduling for inspections
[3:16:29] being done outside of the tool.
[3:16:31] They're using
Excel spreadsheets,
[3:16:33] they're using Calendly.
[3:16:34] There's other tools that are at
play that we need to document
[3:16:37] and make sure that we're
incorporating in terms of when
[3:16:39] we're thinking about replacing
this, how might we go about that
[3:16:42] and where do we need
to focus our efforts.
[3:16:47] I think we talked a
little bit about that.
[3:16:49] I don't know that I need to
go into why this matters.
[3:16:50] I think everybody gets why
this stuff's important.
[3:16:52] So I think I'll let this
one go for the sake of time.
[3:16:58] All right.
[3:16:58] I think this one was kind of
an important one to call out.
[3:17:00] I mentioned this
pain point register
[3:17:02] the last time we got together.
[3:17:03] What I didn't share with
you it is still in progress,
[3:17:07] but so far to date, we have 46
items of pain points between all
[3:17:11] of the various
departments and feedback
[3:17:13] that we've ingested or
taken in this process.
[3:17:17] And 67% of those are gaps
in technology we have that
[3:17:21] cannot be fulfilled
with the solution
[3:17:24] that we have in place today.
[3:17:26] That's not really acceptable.
[3:17:28] I mean, fundamentally,
that's a pretty big gap.
[3:17:31] Significant mess and frankly,
from delivering on what
[3:17:36] we need to be able to do.
[3:17:37] I'm not blaming all
of it on technology,
[3:17:39] because clearly technology
is not the silver bullet
[3:17:42] for solving everyone's
problems, but a lot
[3:17:44] of the operational things that
they're baking in and doing now,
[3:17:46] we need to support and
augment with technology.
[3:17:49] 
[3:17:52] And then this is another
thing that I think is
[3:17:54] going to be gold for all of us.
[3:17:55] It's going to serve
a lot of purposes.
[3:17:57] So we are right now in
the middle of building out
[3:17:59] an entire permit matrix
that's cataloging,
[3:18:01] cataloging over 64 for
permit types that's
[3:18:05] going through every single
step of that permit type
[3:18:08] in terms of what
documentation is required
[3:18:10] for that type of permit.
[3:18:12] What compliance obligations
are there as a result
[3:18:16] for that type of permit.
[3:18:18] What kind of inspections and
the order of those inspections
[3:18:21] for that type of permit.
[3:18:22] What kind of
reviews are required
[3:18:23] for that type of permit.
[3:18:25] So you can imagine, there's
a lot of detail going
[3:18:27] into this permit
matrix, but this
[3:18:29] is going to answer and
basically help us with our RFP.
[3:18:32] It's going to help us for
any changes to the system.
[3:18:35] It's going to help us
on the website when
[3:18:36] we need to communicate
to you all about,
[3:18:40] processes and processes
that the community
[3:18:43] needs to use for submitting
their application.
[3:18:46] It's going to help
training new employees,
[3:18:49] because we're going to have
this artifact that's going to be
[3:18:51] able to show them, and
they're going to be
[3:18:53] able to use it for reference.
[3:18:54] So it's going to solve
a lot of things for us,
[3:18:57] and it's taking a lot of
time, but I think it's going
[3:18:59] to be worth its weight in gold.
[3:19:01] Clearly it helps us
in a number of ways
[3:19:03] that I think you guys
probably understand,
[3:19:05] but we're standardizing
requirements
[3:19:07] across the departments.
[3:19:08] It's going to help
everybody understand
[3:19:09] what those requirements are.
[3:19:10] It's going to be setting clear
expectations for the community
[3:19:12] of what to expect to help lay
out timelines for delivery
[3:19:16] on these things.
[3:19:17] Some things are more
complex, and hopefully this
[3:19:19] is going to help us
show the clarity around
[3:19:21] what makes it complex and how
that's different from something
[3:19:24] that's quick and easy.
[3:19:26] And so here's just
a quick sample.
[3:19:28] This is a roll up.
[3:19:30] It's certainly not
a level of detail
[3:19:31] that we have in the document.
[3:19:32] But I just wanted to give
you an idea of how that's
[3:19:35] kind of coming together
in terms of a permit type,
[3:19:37] walking through the
application requirements
[3:19:39] on that permit type, what
the plans and documents that
[3:19:42] are required to be submitted
with that package, all
[3:19:44] those inspections that I
just mentioned, and so on.
[3:19:47] So this one's really
a big, big win for us.
[3:19:50] And it's taking
quite a bit of time
[3:19:52] along with that permit
service map that you saw.
[3:19:54] But those are significantly
important as we
[3:19:57] go forward from a strategic
planning standpoint.
[3:20:02] I think that's it.
[3:20:03] 
[3:20:05] Again, I cannot thank
Candace and her team enough.
[3:20:08] But I will say that
it's even helping.
[3:20:11] We've been interviewing for
plans examiners, inspectors.
[3:20:14] And so if we weren't paying
attention to this data
[3:20:18] and realizing that we have
so many for example, MEPs,
[3:20:22] well, when you're interviewing,
then an inspector,
[3:20:24] you want to make sure that they
have mechanical and plumbing.
[3:20:26] So these things
are again informing
[3:20:29] just our work operations and
just having the discussions.
[3:20:32] Some of them were tough
at times because if you
[3:20:34] ask a permit tech, how
they process a permit,
[3:20:36] they'll tell you three steps.
[3:20:37] If Candace asks them
again and again,
[3:20:40] it turns out it's
really 18 steps.
[3:20:42] OK, what is the contractor.
[3:20:44] What is the applicant
doing at this point.
[3:20:45] So it's been quite a process.
[3:20:47] But again, just so
thankful and again
[3:20:49] very appreciative
of just the help
[3:20:50] that it's given
us along the way.
[3:20:53] So next steps we're
going to continue working
[3:20:55] with innovation and technology.
[3:20:57] We're going to continue to
have those regular coordination
[3:21:00] meetings with the
other departments
[3:21:02] and the interdisciplinary group
that touches the permit process.
[3:21:05] We're hosting the building
and permitting open house
[3:21:08] this Thursday, and then
we're going to also have
[3:21:11] the contractor focus group.
[3:21:13] I didn't have that
on the screen.
[3:21:14] And then we'll be coming back
to you in June, around the June
[3:21:18] time frame with another update.
[3:21:21] I'll be happy to answer
any questions Mr. Marriott.
[3:21:27] I've got a quick
question for you, Laura.
[3:21:28] The contractor focus
group on April 8.
[3:21:32] Is that an invitation only
or is that any contractors
[3:21:34] that want to be involved.
[3:21:36] That is an invitation only.
[3:21:37] And so what we did
for that one is we
[3:21:39] took the top 20 contractors
with the most activity
[3:21:42] and work going on currently.
[3:21:44] And so we did an invite
only because we're
[3:21:47] going to dive into
the same questions
[3:21:49] that we asked the volunteers.
[3:21:51] Similar format a
little bit differently,
[3:21:53] but we really want to have
a deeper dive discussion.
[3:21:56] And then we're also going
to Candace will be there
[3:21:58] to go through the mapping.
[3:22:01] So again, we want to know from
them if we're missing anything.
[3:22:05] Subsequent to that,
we are scheduling.
[3:22:07] I do not have the first date.
[3:22:09] We tentatively set April 28,
but don't hold me to that.
[3:22:13] But we are going to be holding
a series of contractor coffees
[3:22:17] and that will be open to anyone.
[3:22:19] And that will be more
of just topic related.
[3:22:22] So we have a series
of different topics
[3:22:24] that have came up over and over.
[3:22:26] Like for example, we
might have one that's just
[3:22:28] seawalls all about seawalls.
[3:22:30] And so keep a heads up for
that because that will be
[3:22:33] open again to all contractors.
[3:22:35] And one of the things
that we heard actually
[3:22:37] from the internal
stakeholder engagement
[3:22:39] was and from the contractors
from this original invite out,
[3:22:44] is that a lot of them
aren't actually the ones
[3:22:46] the contractor themselves
aren't the ones that are
[3:22:49] coming into the front counter.
[3:22:50] They have a permit
tech team sometimes
[3:22:53] that are working for them.
[3:22:54] So we also are opening
up to those individuals.
[3:22:56] So the contractor can
come and bring their staff
[3:22:59] or send someone.
[3:23:00] Because again, we've realized
that oftentimes, they
[3:23:03] may be on the site and not
the one coming into our office
[3:23:05] and working with us on
the actual application.
[3:23:08] Thank you very much.
[3:23:09] And thank you both for I
mean, you guys have clearly
[3:23:12] done so much work
on this, and I think
[3:23:13] there have been such tremendous
improvement in a pretty
[3:23:16] short amount of time.
[3:23:18] And I hope everybody
on your team
[3:23:20] feels like they're part of
the team that's on their way
[3:23:23] to winning the Super Bowl.
[3:23:24] Because I think we've
got a great plan going.
[3:23:27] And thank you, Candace.
[3:23:29] I just can't even believe
how lucky we are to have
[3:23:31] you here to do all this for us.
[3:23:35] Commissioner Robinson.
[3:23:36] I had a couple questions.
[3:23:37] Under the 90 day roadmap,
completed actions, page 112.
[3:23:46] Eligible type of projects
for same day permits.
[3:23:49] Do we have that list.
[3:23:52] Since it's completed.
[3:23:54] And where does that list live.
[3:23:58] So no, I. So those
are the ones that
[3:24:00] are going to be on the we're
going to put those front
[3:24:02] and center for typical.
[3:24:04] But that information
has not been added.
[3:24:05] I did have it on the slide, but
I didn't want to just throw that
[3:24:10] up there because there needs
to be a little bit more
[3:24:12] of a disclaimer.
[3:24:13] I think in more
information, as far as
[3:24:16] why some equal change outs would
be OK and same day, but not all.
[3:24:21] So we just want to add a
little bit more information.
[3:24:23] And that is coming with an
update to the fences on here.
[3:24:29] No, they are not.
[3:24:31] How long do fences take
to get a permit for.
[3:24:35] I can tell you how
long on average.
[3:24:38] Hey we have that data again.
[3:24:40] Often yeah, often.
[3:24:43] Yeah, often because of a
site plan being required
[3:24:47] or survey being required.
[3:24:49] And I think that
may be part of it,
[3:24:51] that it wouldn't be same day.
[3:24:53] Not to say that it can't be OK.
[3:24:55] Yeah, that's part of
our local code, right.
[3:24:58] So you could review
that and change it,
[3:25:01] but it requires that
kind of permitting.
[3:25:03] Well, a survey is
kind of obvious
[3:25:05] because you don't want to put
it on your neighbor's yard.
[3:25:07] I mean, that would be
something that's kind of like.
[3:25:11] And I would think if
you under a fence,
[3:25:15] you would say you need a survey
and under particular items
[3:25:19] you need a survey for.
[3:25:21] And then the
streamlined guidance
[3:25:25] and outreach, the published
clear instructions
[3:25:28] and eligibility criteria.
[3:25:30] Residents easily identify
projects suitable for same day
[3:25:34] processing.
[3:25:35] Where is that as well.
[3:25:39] So that is currently we
have updated the site.
[3:25:43] If you go to our permit,
permits, applications and forms
[3:25:47] I believe is the page
title for that one where
[3:25:50] it outlines the permit process.
[3:25:53] It will link you out to the
regulatory timelines that 30 day
[3:25:57] the 10 day for a review.
[3:26:00] It goes straight to the
statutory requirements.
[3:26:03] You're saying this
is on the website.
[3:26:05] Yes OK.
[3:26:12] And then.
[3:26:15] Did we establish SOP
as verbal communication
[3:26:18] phone call prior to any denial
for any denial of permits.
[3:26:27] No, we have not.
[3:26:28] And The completed application.
[3:26:38] Completed actions.
[3:26:39] When are those completed.
[3:26:41] As of this last month.
[3:26:45] Two weeks ago today for which.
[3:26:47] For all of these that
say the completed actions
[3:26:51] a series of them had been
already in the works,
[3:26:54] even prior to us
technically starting
[3:26:57] the January 1
countdown, and then some
[3:27:00] as recent as the last website.
[3:27:02] That's why I'm a little bit
hesitant to say yes, it's
[3:27:04] up there and change
because we just
[3:27:06] made it through this last
round of website updates,
[3:27:08] but late last week.
[3:27:11] So they've been happening
since I believe that we
[3:27:17] first had these series
of progress action items
[3:27:22] in late December.
[3:27:24] And again, a few of those we
were already kind of working on
[3:27:27] in a different way,
but wasn't really
[3:27:30] captured in this same format.
[3:27:34] So we do have just
to be clear, we
[3:27:36] have a complete list of these.
[3:27:37] And there are at minimum like
this was done January 20 26th
[3:27:41] February, so if you do have
dates on all of this stuff,
[3:27:44] I think it's just not here.
[3:27:46] But yeah, we do have
dates to that list
[3:27:49] as far as I'm just
looking at a money.
[3:27:52] A money thing forerunner did.
[3:27:56] Did forerunner cost
us money, or did we
[3:27:58] have to purchase
forerunner software
[3:28:00] or is that
reimbursable from FEMA.
[3:28:04] It cost us.
[3:28:06] So we purchased forerunner.
[3:28:08] Yes thank you.
[3:28:11] Yeah so we actually
purchased forerunner
[3:28:15] I can't answer the
question about whether
[3:28:17] or it's potentially
reimbursable from FEMA.
[3:28:20] We can certainly
discuss that internally.
[3:28:22] To my knowledge, there has
not been anything specific
[3:28:25] shared with me to pursue that.
[3:28:27] But we certainly can get you an
answer on if that's eligible.
[3:28:31] I'm just in.
[3:28:32] I see new portal software
on this for RFPs,
[3:28:37] and I just know how much we've
spent already on software.
[3:28:41] And I'm just concerned
we're not in blue skies.
[3:28:44] We're still in gray skies,
especially financially
[3:28:47] and just want to find out.
[3:28:50] Can we work with what we
have until we get to a point
[3:28:53] where getting close
to blue skies.
[3:28:55] So 100% I think
what you're seeing
[3:28:58] is a result of us
doing just that.
[3:29:00] We are really trying to
work with what we have,
[3:29:03] make any fundamental changes
that we can within our work.
[3:29:06] We are looking at.
[3:29:07] One of the things
on that list you saw
[3:29:09] was go out and look,
if there's an AI tool
[3:29:10] to augment AI work that maybe
isn't a full replacement
[3:29:13] to go out and get an entire
new permitting system
[3:29:15] today, tomorrow or next month.
[3:29:17] But what tools might be out
there that aren't that can still
[3:29:21] augment and we can gain
significant efficiency
[3:29:24] or close some of those 67% gaps
in the software that we have.
[3:29:28] So we are absolutely doing that.
[3:29:29] I think the ask of us
was to come together
[3:29:32] with all of this documentation
and be ready for an RFP by maybe
[3:29:36] June was the deadline that
we were given and discussed
[3:29:39] in some prior commission.
[3:29:40] And so we're still targeting
the potential to do that.
[3:29:42] But that's certainly going
to be up for discussion
[3:29:44] in terms of how that plays out.
[3:29:46] I would just be concerned
that it all works together.
[3:29:48] Understood I think we've had a
lot of stuff that hasn't worked
[3:29:51] together in the past, and
we've had to abandon it
[3:29:54] and then paid a lot of
money for new software.
[3:29:57] You are not wrong, and we
are spending a lot of time
[3:30:00] this time to do
our due diligence.
[3:30:02] So that does not happen to
us again specifically here.
[3:30:05] I appreciate what you've gotten
so far with what we have.
[3:30:09] But, again, I'm
concerned about that,
[3:30:12] about being able to work with
what we have until we can get
[3:30:14] to a point where we're at
Blue skies or close to it
[3:30:18] or fair concern.
[3:30:19] Light blue or whatever.
[3:30:20] Yeah right.
[3:30:22] Thank you.
[3:30:23] Let me see if I put
some red notes in here.
[3:30:25] So I'll see if
there's another one.
[3:30:27] I think that might
have been the last.
[3:30:29] That was it.
[3:30:29] Thank you.
[3:30:30] Thank you, Commissioner Causey.
[3:30:32] Yeah wonderful of
everything that's
[3:30:35] going on here in the
focus on this big pain
[3:30:37] point for the
community, and it's
[3:30:39] going to be great coming
out the other side of this,
[3:30:42] I really think.
[3:30:44] A couple of questions is.
[3:30:46] Is Aye.
[3:30:47] Commissioner Robinson,
asking about the phone
[3:30:49] call before denials.
[3:30:50] Is that a thing.
[3:30:52] Is there a complication with
that you could tell us about or.
[3:30:57] So honestly, it's something that
we would like to discuss more
[3:31:00] in particular at the contractor
focus group in talking,
[3:31:04] I think that when that
recommendation was made,
[3:31:07] we kind of talked
about it with staff
[3:31:10] as far as how that would look.
[3:31:12] And potentially we used not
the worst case scenario,
[3:31:17] but the scenario of
contractor that's getting
[3:31:21] the call while on the job site.
[3:31:22] Your application has been denied
why they don't have a computer
[3:31:27] in front of them or anything.
[3:31:28] And talking through that, it
could cause more frustration
[3:31:31] potentially than help.
[3:31:33] And so what we've done, because
we did hear you loud and clear,
[3:31:37] is that we've tried to
implement through again
[3:31:39] that single point of contact,
letting the permit techs
[3:31:42] use their own discretion
because they're really now
[3:31:45] that liaison for the applicant.
[3:31:47] And they should really
be able to tell,
[3:31:50] whether it's a
denial or approval
[3:31:51] or maybe hold on, we need this
and have that open dialogue
[3:31:55] and be ahead of it.
[3:31:56] So we've encouraged that and
also emphasize that especially
[3:32:01] for a denial, because
that's usually
[3:32:02] where we hear the most about it
that where it makes sense to not
[3:32:07] only let if it's a contractor,
but also let the homeowner
[3:32:10] know as well.
[3:32:11] So we are leaving it up to
them at their discretion.
[3:32:14] We have not mandated
that if it's
[3:32:16] a denial that a call goes out.
[3:32:18] But again, we intended to bring
that up with the contractor
[3:32:22] focus group because I
could be completely wrong
[3:32:24] or our team as we've discussed
is that could be instead
[3:32:28] very well received, but we just
want to make sure that we just
[3:32:33] don't want to do it and
then make it one of the SOPs
[3:32:37] now and then have
it potentially.
[3:32:40] There was some concern that it
could create more frustration
[3:32:43] and frankly, just the time
involved, whether we're not
[3:32:46] making a call right now,
if it's approved or denied,
[3:32:49] it's all through the
portal in the system.
[3:32:50] And so that's the
current process.
[3:32:54] That's good.
[3:32:55] And then so the last
thing is, have we
[3:32:58] identified any ways
to streamline our code
[3:33:02] through this evolution.
[3:33:05] So you all have thankfully
done a number of things.
[3:33:08] So far to we'll call
it modify, tweak,
[3:33:12] respond to the ever
changing permitting world
[3:33:17] that we're living
in, such as what
[3:33:19] you all talked about a couple
weeks ago with the seawalls.
[3:33:22] We also had
remember, the raising
[3:33:24] of the mechanical
equipment and all of that.
[3:33:27] That was a big one.
[3:33:28] So you've got our
local code and then
[3:33:30] we've got the building code,
which we can't really touch.
[3:33:32] But we've been actually we're
fortunate enough that our Deputy
[3:33:37] building official is
actually on the he's
[3:33:40] on the committee for the Florida
building code 2027 update.
[3:33:44] And so a lot of what we've
seen and what we've been
[3:33:48] experiencing, explained them.
[3:33:51] It's absolutely very important
that not that there's
[3:33:53] any guarantee, but that we
need to as a barrier island
[3:33:57] community, be represented
accordingly for all
[3:33:59] these challenges that we've
seen, because some of it,
[3:34:02] to your point, can be changed.
[3:34:03] It's easy if it's our LDC and
we can make a minor tweak.
[3:34:06] But what we found is the most
challenging ones that we can't.
[3:34:10] Our hands are tied because
it's either the FBC or FEMA.
[3:34:16] Yeah just the differences
between the different beach
[3:34:19] cities, for example, here,
if we have certain codes
[3:34:23] that contractors are seeing
are different than other places
[3:34:27] where they're working.
[3:34:28] 
[3:34:31] So we had it's interesting
because we've only had one group
[3:34:35] meeting so far, but we have
a group of building officials
[3:34:38] from the barrier islands.
[3:34:39] It was from Madeira,
Treasure Island,
[3:34:41] Redington, Indian Shores.
[3:34:45] We all met and basically it was
a therapeutic meeting, just no.
[3:34:49] But it was really to
talk about these things
[3:34:52] because we're all
experiencing the same things.
[3:34:54] And what we found is we're so
quick to hear that, well, you're
[3:34:57] allowed to do whatever
in TI or they'll let
[3:35:00] you raise it up, only two feet.
[3:35:02] And so we've been comparing
ourselves and sharing resources
[3:35:08] as recent as yesterday, we had
a lengthy elevation discussion
[3:35:12] because we've been running
into some challenges
[3:35:14] with the elevations.
[3:35:15] So that's been very helpful.
[3:35:16] But what it comes
down to is our codes
[3:35:18] aren't the same to begin with.
[3:35:20] And then you have the
interpretation of the code
[3:35:22] to even add to that.
[3:35:23] And then you have the
fact that none of us
[3:35:26] have ever been in this situation
where some of the codes
[3:35:29] is being challenged like it is
because for example, the height,
[3:35:34] I'll use the height as
an example, over time.
[3:35:37] Redevelopment over
time would probably
[3:35:39] call for that first
floor activation
[3:35:41] to maybe get moved up right.
[3:35:43] And you'd have more,
say, rooftop activity.
[3:35:45] But what we had with the
storms is like overnight,
[3:35:48] that first floor activation,
especially for commercial
[3:35:51] that's kind of gone away.
[3:35:53] You've lost that space.
[3:35:54] So you're seeing
that, well, now you're
[3:35:55] limited because now you're
so these things are something
[3:35:58] that we're going to continue to
at the city manager's direction,
[3:36:03] look at any minor
tweaks and changes
[3:36:05] that we can make to
the LDC along the way.
[3:36:07] But we're very
mindful that it's time
[3:36:10] we started the Comp
plan update, and it's
[3:36:16] not the appropriate time now.
[3:36:17] We need to but that
doesn't mean that we don't
[3:36:20] look at these
things and at least
[3:36:21] modify what we can
in the interim.
[3:36:24] But I think what it's
going to really require
[3:36:25] is that holistic, comprehensive
look, because so much has
[3:36:29] changed and the direction
that we're going in,
[3:36:31] we need to there's
a lot of fixes
[3:36:33] that we need to make it easier
to redevelop and build here,
[3:36:39] or preserve as well,
preserve and protect.
[3:36:43] So I would so though we
can't make changes right now,
[3:36:48] we possibly approve changes that
would be implemented when we are
[3:36:55] able to make changes, if we've
identified areas that we think
[3:37:00] we want that would be better
than what we have now,
[3:37:04] we could go ahead and approve
those things for implementation.
[3:37:09] Whenever we're able to.
[3:37:13] Absolutely and some of it you
don't really need to wait.
[3:37:16] I turned to Ralph
because SB 180 put
[3:37:19] some restrictions
in place until 2027,
[3:37:21] but it didn't
restrict everything.
[3:37:23] It was basically if you were
going to be more restrictive,
[3:37:26] but there's other
ways and things
[3:37:29] that we need to be
considering now just as part
[3:37:31] of the rebuilding process that
we can pave the way to make it
[3:37:35] an easier process to get there.
[3:37:39] Yeah that's great.
[3:37:40] But that is exactly what I was
talking about is the 2027 date.
[3:37:45] Like when that date comes.
[3:37:48] Maybe we'll be ready to
automatically implement
[3:37:52] a lot of changes that we've
already gone through the process
[3:37:57] on.
[3:37:58] It's fast approaching.
[3:38:00] And I'm hopeful that with
the redevelopment plan
[3:38:03] and with the community
engagement that we're going
[3:38:05] to do as part of the
redevelopment plan, that's
[3:38:08] a really great
opportunity to again,
[3:38:10] you're looking at a
more specific area,
[3:38:12] but it applies for
the whole city.
[3:38:14] So you can use that
engagement and that input
[3:38:17] to help inform some of the
we'll call them interim fixes
[3:38:23] or changes or modifications
that you can make
[3:38:25] until you can do the big stuff.
[3:38:28] Post 2027.
[3:38:31] Thank you.
[3:38:32] 
[3:38:34] OK thank you.
[3:38:35] A few questions for me.
[3:38:36] I'm sorry.
[3:38:37] You start talking data and my
engineer lights up, I apologize.
[3:38:43] I know you mentioned that you're
working with other communities.
[3:38:46] Best practices,
things like that.
[3:38:48] Are we working at.
[3:38:50] I would like to find coming
out of there is expected
[3:38:52] timelines per permit type.
[3:38:54] Fences should take this long.
[3:38:56] Seawall should take
this long as an average,
[3:38:59] submittal to approval
kind of process.
[3:39:03] I hope we're gathering those.
[3:39:04] Maybe just a quick question.
[3:39:05] Just yes.
[3:39:06] Are we gathering those.
[3:39:06] If not, can we.
[3:39:09] We can.
[3:39:09] OK thank you.
[3:39:11] A few more.
[3:39:12] I like the averages.
[3:39:14] I should have started with
excellent presentation.
[3:39:16] I sincerely
appreciate both of you
[3:39:17] and what you provided for us.
[3:39:20] I tend to think of averages.
[3:39:21] Sometimes they can be skewed.
[3:39:22] If you've got
something really long,
[3:39:23] it'll skew the average
up really short.
[3:39:24] You'll skew it down.
[3:39:25] So can we possibly I don't know
if you have the data easy enough
[3:39:28] to just add right in.
[3:39:29] Maybe a median and a
range kind of thing
[3:39:31] so that we can see
median will tell you
[3:39:33] half of them take this
long and half of them
[3:39:35] take longer kind of thing.
[3:39:36] So we only see these
averages tend to get skewed.
[3:39:38] Something to think about OK.
[3:39:40] I'm sorry, I'm just rattling
them all off because I realize
[3:39:43] we want to wrap up
at 10, but I'm not
[3:39:44] sure that's going to happen.
[3:39:46] She said.
[3:39:46] We can do it, I understood.
[3:39:47] No, I'm with you.
[3:39:48] Thank you.
[3:39:50] As we're breaking
out our metrics.
[3:39:53] And you mentioned
we've got a process
[3:39:54] and we want to start
dividing it up.
[3:39:57] I'd like us to also consider
if we can differentiate
[3:40:00] between what I'll call waiting
on the waiting on the applicant,
[3:40:03] waiting on the contractor,
waiting on the city.
[3:40:06] And really be able to
quantify only so much
[3:40:09] of that is in our control.
[3:40:10] The other half is not, however,
whatever is not in our control,
[3:40:14] I would like us if we do have.
[3:40:17] I'm sorry I'm
rattling all this off
[3:40:18] or I apologize if we do
have expected, communities
[3:40:25] around the area typically do a
fence with an x number of days
[3:40:28] just to use it, for example, or
seawall within y number of days.
[3:40:30] And then I'd like
to see if we have
[3:40:32] alerts where a particular item
in our case goes beyond that.
[3:40:36] That typical time frame.
[3:40:37] It's stuck in a
part of the process.
[3:40:40] And I want us to alert the
city staff, if possible
[3:40:42] to identify that,
hey, this one's
[3:40:45] one we got to follow up on.
[3:40:46] And so I'm not necessarily
looking for answers right now
[3:40:48] as much as things for you to
think about, as I'm thinking
[3:40:52] about process flow in my head.
[3:40:53] 
[3:40:57] And ultimately, we're
looking at what I say.
[3:41:02] Steady state kind of flows.
[3:41:05] We're not in a storm
just hit us and we've
[3:41:08] got thousands of applications.
[3:41:09] We're kind of a little
bit beyond that.
[3:41:12] I'd like to know that as
we look at this software
[3:41:14] that we're anticipating
being able to stress
[3:41:17] test that software.
[3:41:18] Stress test our models to say
yes, we think within a fence,
[3:41:22] within normal steady
state is pick a day.
[3:41:26] Three days.
[3:41:26] I don't know what it is, right.
[3:41:29] But if we threw 1,000
of them at it at once,
[3:41:32] obviously that's going
to clog the system up.
[3:41:33] And I don't know if our
software, as we go out for RFP,
[3:41:37] might allow us to do some
stress testing like that,
[3:41:40] because right now, I don't
know that the yes, we
[3:41:42] are still in gray skies.
[3:41:43] I like that term.
[3:41:45] But they're not the
pitch black skies
[3:41:46] that we'll see the next
time the storm hits us.
[3:41:48] And I want to make sure that we
don't as much as our software
[3:41:51] will be improved, I don't
want us to come right
[3:41:53] back into the same situation we
had back in September of 2020,
[3:41:55] 2024.
[3:41:57] We can only do that
as part of the RFP,
[3:41:59] and we should stress test
the operating model as well.
[3:42:02] Not just software but agreed.
[3:42:04] And then last question.
[3:42:05] I'm sorry.
[3:42:06] And I know I rattle
a lot I apologize.
[3:42:08] What's the date that
we're looking possibly
[3:42:10] to have a goal for if we're
going to consider new software,
[3:42:15] do we have an RFP that's got a
date that says we'd like to be
[3:42:17] considering them in this date.
[3:42:20] The only date that I had
committed to into as of now,
[3:42:24] was trying to get an RFP, the
materials and scope of work
[3:42:27] together by June.
[3:42:28] But as far as when we would
like to if I understand
[3:42:31] your question, you're looking
for when we might want to look
[3:42:34] beyond the schedule
of implementation
[3:42:36] or choosing new software
and implementing.
[3:42:38] Yeah when do we want
to choose that vendor.
[3:42:40] If we're going to go
with a different vendor,
[3:42:41] when would we want to
choose that vendor.
[3:42:43] Yeah, I mean, the last one
that we did here, now, it was
[3:42:46] started well before I got here.
[3:42:47] A matter of fact, they were at
the tail end of the decision
[3:42:49] when I got here, probably
six or so months or more.
[3:42:55] I worked on it for the last.
[3:42:57] The first two or three
months I was here
[3:42:59] before they kind of
decided to put it down,
[3:43:02] essentially shelve it.
[3:43:03] So I would say probably within
six months of the RFP going out,
[3:43:06] hopefully we can be ready
to make some decisions.
[3:43:09] Of course, that's provided
that money's funding is there
[3:43:11] and that's the
direction we understood.
[3:43:13] Of course.
[3:43:13] Yeah understood.
[3:43:14] OK thank you.
[3:43:16] Thank you.
[3:43:17] 
[3:43:22] OK I'm looking at the agenda.
[3:43:24] I think what's next
is audience comments.
[3:43:25] And I'm used to seeing it
much earlier in the night.
[3:43:27] But here we are.
[3:43:28] Audience comments.
[3:43:29] Is there any comments
from the audience, please.
[3:43:31] Yes Sandy mayor.
[3:43:32] 
[3:43:38] Good evening, late Sandy
mayor, 8911 blind pass
[3:43:42] road, Boca shores condos.
[3:43:45] My husband and I bought
our condo back in 2000,
[3:43:49] so we've seen a lot
happen in ST Pete Beach.
[3:43:53] However, if you're
familiar with the area,
[3:43:56] there's a little park called
Egan park right next to us
[3:43:59] between Captiva Cay
and poco shores.
[3:44:03] I don't know when it was
during those last 25 years
[3:44:07] when the public works department
decided that they'd taken,
[3:44:11] like a fourth of
it to put equipment
[3:44:13] and stuff, storm debris,
it's been a lot of stuff
[3:44:18] through the years.
[3:44:19] But anyway, I was taking
my walk to the beach Monday
[3:44:23] and as I came back, I decided
to walk around Eden Park
[3:44:28] and I heard this really loud
noise behind me, and I looked.
[3:44:31] And it was like this huge truck.
[3:44:34] And so I thought, what is that.
[3:44:35] I looked at the side
and I took pictures.
[3:44:38] Sewer equipment
company of America.
[3:44:40] And I thought, what
are they doing here.
[3:44:43] Anyway, I followed
them and they backed up
[3:44:46] in the big fourth portion
that is all public works.
[3:44:52] And they started
dumping some stuff.
[3:44:56] So I went over and I looked.
[3:44:58] And it was like a
bunch of sludge.
[3:45:00] I mean, we've had all kinds
of stuff in that area,
[3:45:04] but this is first time I've
seen something look like sludge.
[3:45:06] Well, one of our other
neighbors called public works,
[3:45:09] and they said, well.
[3:45:12] It's from drains from the
storm that they're getting
[3:45:16] with barnacles and
all this stuff,
[3:45:19] and they're dumping it there.
[3:45:20] I mean, just on the
ground right by the hedge
[3:45:23] between the park and the road.
[3:45:26] Anyway, I just have
a couple questions
[3:45:30] and you don't have
to answer them today,
[3:45:32] but I would hope
that in the future
[3:45:33] we can talk further about this.
[3:45:35] We have met with
public works before
[3:45:37] and we've had great
relationships.
[3:45:39] But my number one question is,
do you think that's a good thing
[3:45:43] to do where kids are playing
baseball, where people are
[3:45:47] playing tennis, where
there's a basketball
[3:45:49] goal, where people
are using the ramp
[3:45:52] to put their boat in the water.
[3:45:54] And number 2, wouldn't it make
sense instead of in such a high.
[3:45:59] And I know ST Pete Beach is
a highly developed area, well
[3:46:03] populated, but it would
make more sense to me
[3:46:06] not to put something like
that in such a populated area
[3:46:09] and maybe go into
Pinellas County somewhere
[3:46:12] where we could dump
stuff like that.
[3:46:15] So those are my questions.
[3:46:16] Something to think
about and hopefully we
[3:46:18] can talk about in the future.
[3:46:20] It's past my bedtime.
[3:46:21] Oh appreciate it.
[3:46:22] Thank you.
[3:46:22] 
[3:46:25] Kathy past my bedtime too.
[3:46:32] Good evening.
[3:46:33] Mayor commissioners.
[3:46:35] Yeah, it's four
hours for me here.
[3:46:38] Probably is long for
you all for an item
[3:46:41] on the agenda that I came in
here pretty hopeful about.
[3:46:45] Excited about.
[3:46:46] But I think if I heard you,
I think Commissioner Robinson
[3:46:50] maybe pulled the consent item B,
which I was looking forward to
[3:46:58] is I think a lot
of our neighborhood
[3:47:00] is to see the city finally
execute a contract to get what
[3:47:06] is kind of a
misnomer, calling it
[3:47:08] a stormwater outfall
when all we experience
[3:47:11] is salt water in fall.
[3:47:15] It's been happening
for years and years.
[3:47:18] This contract is now at 13.
[3:47:22] Stormwater outfalls involved
in it, not just the five.
[3:47:24] And Don says that should
have been executed
[3:47:27] probably two years ago.
[3:47:29] But because I'm going to say and
you should ask the city staff.
[3:47:34] But my understanding from
working very closely with
[3:47:37] the team, it's really hard
to get attention to a project
[3:47:42] that's less than $100,000.
[3:47:45] So you combine a massive
amount to try to get it done,
[3:47:49] and we've been
waiting for years.
[3:47:51] The impact of not
having this is real.
[3:47:56] Our high tides right
now are over 2 feet.
[3:47:59] And you all know our
streets on average
[3:48:01] are 1 and 1/2 to two feet.
[3:48:04] But we're not even
talking about the street
[3:48:05] ends where all this water
sits and accumulates.
[3:48:08] It's there, it's real,
and it's a problem.
[3:48:10] And we need you to act
with urgency on this.
[3:48:13] I don't understand why you
decided to punt on it tonight.
[3:48:18] It's frustrating.
[3:48:20] And it takes eight months
for this contract to happen.
[3:48:22] But yeah, tell me, tell
me that you're going to be
[3:48:25] able to decide on this tonight.
[3:48:26] OK When it gets
pulled from consent,
[3:48:29] it just means it turns
into an action item.
[3:48:32] Hallelujah thank you.
[3:48:33] I was like, oh my God.
[3:48:35] I had questions on it.
[3:48:36] You have questions on it.
[3:48:37] OK, good.
[3:48:38] Well that's fine.
[3:48:39] Questions are great.
[3:48:40] I just thought that it
meant that it wasn't going
[3:48:43] to get decided on tonight.
[3:48:44] And I was kind of
heartbroken for that, so yay.
[3:48:47] All right, well,
he asked questions,
[3:48:49] but I guess you can
hear my request.
[3:48:52] Please approve it.
[3:48:53] Thanks Thank you.
[3:48:57] Other public comments.
[3:48:59] Deborah scheckner.
[3:49:00] 
[3:49:03] OK grant.
[3:49:05] Izzy good evening.
[3:49:13] Grant isea 203 59th Avenue.
[3:49:17] Again for hours here.
[3:49:18] But just to make a
couple of comments.
[3:49:21] So I almost feel guilty
doing that since everyone's
[3:49:23] been waiting.
[3:49:24] First of all, I want
to say thank you like I
[3:49:28] always do when I get up here.
[3:49:29] First thing I want
to do is thank you
[3:49:30] for your service
to the community
[3:49:35] and the time away
from your families.
[3:49:37] Doing service of
any kind is noble,
[3:49:40] and so I really appreciate it.
[3:49:42] We all appreciate it.
[3:49:43] We may not always agree with
you, but we appreciate it.
[3:49:47] And then congratulations
to Commissioner
[3:49:50] Causey and Mayor Tate.
[3:49:53] This is some people say
elections have consequences.
[3:49:59] But I know a number
of people, including
[3:50:00] myself, that really say
elections bring opportunities.
[3:50:04] So this is a good
day for our city.
[3:50:08] A few opportunities that I want
you to think about that I think
[3:50:12] are important, and
that our city needs
[3:50:14] right now more than anything.
[3:50:16] Solving problems, real
problems is one of them.
[3:50:21] We need you to lead
and make decisions
[3:50:25] by using facts, not emotions.
[3:50:29] OK facts are what take
you to the right solution
[3:50:35] and it will help you avoid
things, which it's kind of been
[3:50:37] rampant here is problems looking
for a solution or solution
[3:50:43] looking for a problem.
[3:50:44] And so ask the right questions.
[3:50:49] Ask what problem are
we trying to solve.
[3:50:52] When you're being asked to
approve something because that
[3:50:55] may take you down
a different road,
[3:50:57] but it will be the right road.
[3:51:00] Bring the community together.
[3:51:04] The toxic atmosphere in this
community that pits people
[3:51:07] against each other,
compounds the problem
[3:51:12] when you have to
solve the big problems
[3:51:15] because we're not
working together,
[3:51:17] so really need you to do that
so we can really move forward.
[3:51:21] Whether it's a big problem or
big issue like this thunder
[3:51:24] thing, if we were
working together,
[3:51:27] I bet you we would
solve that problem.
[3:51:30] Clarify the vision of what
we want ST Pete Beach to be.
[3:51:35] I think we all want
the same thing,
[3:51:37] but it doesn't seem like it.
[3:51:40] So we need some clarification.
[3:51:42] Just for example, on
this road project,
[3:51:46] do we need bike lanes or not.
[3:51:47] What's the big
vision for ST Pete
[3:51:49] Beach and making it an
accessible, walkable, rideable
[3:51:52] city.
[3:51:53] Does this.
[3:51:53] Does that particular road fit
in to the overall big vision.
[3:51:56] What is the vision
our neighborhoods.
[3:51:59] What are the vision that
needs to be clarified
[3:52:02] so we can make decisions.
[3:52:04] And then finally
process improvements.
[3:52:08] Great briefing,
but we're not going
[3:52:10] to get anywhere unless we have
goals that we can measure by.
[3:52:16] Thank you.
[3:52:17] Thanks, sir.
[3:52:19] Lauren Munez.
[3:52:20] 
[3:52:29] Lauren Munez.
[3:52:31] Pastor girl.
[3:52:32] So, problem number one,
amending the minutes verbatim,
[3:52:37] but missing the intent of
the voting government body.
[3:52:43] Intent is crucial.
[3:52:44] Even if it's not spoken.
[3:52:48] Legislative intent of
the legislative body
[3:52:52] is mandatory language.
[3:52:53] And y'all miss that.
[3:52:56] Y'all miss that.
[3:52:59] Problem number two not amending.
[3:53:02] Exhibit A. My understanding
is that you're
[3:53:04] going to amend the minutes,
but not amend the ordinance.
[3:53:08] Is that correct.
[3:53:10] You don't have to answer because
I know you're not allowed
[3:53:12] to answer right now, but if
I understand that correctly,
[3:53:17] then you'll have the minutes
disagreeing with the ordinance.
[3:53:24] That's a break in
due process, correct
[3:53:28] Yes there's no transparency.
[3:53:32] There's no record of anything.
[3:53:35] Put you guys in a really
weak spot, litigation wise.
[3:53:40] Problem number 3.
[3:53:42] You took out utility
poles, Ralph, for setbacks.
[3:53:47] The citizens always
had the language
[3:53:50] for months saying setbacks
are for wireless support
[3:53:53] structures and utility poles.
[3:53:56] Now it says.
[3:53:58] 
[3:54:01] Wireless support structures,
not including utility poles.
[3:54:06] What's that about.
[3:54:07] They're all utility poles.
[3:54:09] All the wireless antennas
right now are on utility poles.
[3:54:13] Why would you take that out.
[3:54:16] Did they tell you
to take it out.
[3:54:17] The old commission.
[3:54:18] Did they instruct you.
[3:54:20] Are you overstepping
your advisory role again.
[3:54:22] I think so.
[3:54:24] I think this commission needs
to evaluate his position
[3:54:28] because he's an interim attorney
and he's not doing a good job.
[3:54:36] He needs to be evaluated.
[3:54:37] And you pulled.
[3:54:39] Not you.
[3:54:40] Not you.
[3:54:41] The other commission pulled
his evaluation from the agenda.
[3:54:46] My understanding of
it, I could be wrong,
[3:54:48] but that's what I was told.
[3:54:50] He's never been evaluated
since the renewing
[3:54:52] of the contract with his firm.
[3:54:55] Problem number four,
you are forcing
[3:54:57] it back to first
and second reading
[3:55:00] when it already was voted on.
[3:55:02] 
[3:55:04] I hope you guys
are proud of this.
[3:55:07] It's sad.
[3:55:08] It's sad how you
all have shown up.
[3:55:11] And it breaks my
heart to be honest,
[3:55:12] because you all put a lot of
time into this and so did we.
[3:55:17] And now you want to put
more time into this.
[3:55:22] You guys think I'm going
to back down because you
[3:55:24] keep giving me problems.
[3:55:25] I'm going to turn it
up 10 notches now.
[3:55:29] Thank you.
[3:55:32] Thank you, Ron Vigneault.
OK Avignon make up as well.
[3:55:58] OK John, did you write this.
[3:56:04] I guess you wrote it.
[3:56:05] Yeah it's your name
there, and it's.
[3:56:08] It's sent to Becky.
[3:56:10] Becky is the boss of Ralph.
[3:56:12] So you wrote again.
[3:56:14] And I have tons of those things.
[3:56:16] You wrote again to
Becky, the boss of Ralph.
[3:56:19] You intend.
[3:56:20] And it's all about the intent.
[3:56:23] What does it say.
[3:56:24] 
[3:56:34] See here.
[3:56:37] Mandatory it says mandatory.
[3:56:39] Can you see it.
[3:56:40] John, look.
[3:56:41] Look on the paper.
[3:56:43] Why are you looking at me.
[3:56:45] Have you passed out.
[3:56:46] Look on the paper.
[3:56:47] You wrote that.
[3:56:49] That's your intent.
[3:56:51] You fought for this for
months a year and a half.
[3:56:54] My wife and we've been working a
year and a half with all of you.
[3:56:57] I mean, not the Al and Scott.
[3:57:01] We spoke, we talked about this.
[3:57:04] It was out there.
[3:57:05] And you put that
motion that night
[3:57:07] and you wrote that to Becky.
[3:57:08] So that's a proof.
[3:57:09] That's what you wanted.
[3:57:11] Now you're letting this
guy walk all over you.
[3:57:15] He works for you.
[3:57:16] He works for me.
[3:57:18] And this guy is
walking all over you.
[3:57:20] 
[3:57:24] And, Lisa, are
you proud of that.
[3:57:27] You intended to have protection.
[3:57:30] This guy took it away from you.
[3:57:33] He took what you wanted to do.
[3:57:35] He took what Jon wanted to do.
[3:57:36] I don't know who's getting
the money, who's paying who,
[3:57:40] but it's dirty.
[3:57:41] It's very, very dirty.
[3:57:43] And I feel sorry for you, Scott.
[3:57:45] You just walked in the
biggest fucking mess ever.
[3:57:49] And I spoke tonight
to so many people.
[3:57:52] The room, the room
was full, so I had
[3:57:54] a chance to talk to everybody.
[3:57:56] And everybody thinks
this guy is corrupt.
[3:57:59] Corrupt to the bone.
[3:58:02] So we need a public
investigation.
[3:58:05] Ron, please.
[3:58:05] Please yeah, yeah.
[3:58:06] Point of order.
[3:58:07] Just stop the attacks, please.
[3:58:09] Well, no, those are not attacks.
[3:58:11] The facts.
[3:58:12] Everybody thinks
this guy is corrupt.
[3:58:14] City clerk, would you pause
the timer for a second while
[3:58:17] I ask kindly that
the mayor would
[3:58:19] remind people of the decorum
that's required here.
[3:58:24] Yeah thank you.
[3:58:25] OK, I get it, I get it, but I
still have some time to speak.
[3:58:30] Point of order.
[3:58:31] Point of order.
[3:58:33] Yeah just stop the attacks.
[3:58:34] Please please keep it factual.
[3:58:35] Facts everybody's
talking about it.
[3:58:38] Scott, are you going
to overlook that.
[3:58:41] You're going to let that go.
[3:58:42] I don't think you should
be calling the liar
[3:58:43] just out here like this.
[3:58:44] I think that's inappropriate.
[3:58:45] So why look at this.
[3:58:48] What is this, then.
[3:58:49] That's his intent.
[3:58:51] And he's letting
this guy override it.
[3:58:54] That's not democracy, that's
communism, that's dictatorship.
[3:58:58] This guy is running
the show here,
[3:59:01] and he has no place
to run the show.
[3:59:04] I mean, Scott, you
just walked in.
[3:59:05] I'm sorry about that.
[3:59:06] But Lisa spoke.
[3:59:08] John spoke, and
they shut them up.
[3:59:10] Someone is shutting them up.
[3:59:12] Time up.
[3:59:12] It's time is up.
[3:59:13] Thank you.
[3:59:14] And now she's shutting me up.
[3:59:16] But this is the beginning
of something really big.
[3:59:19] We speak with all the media, and
it's going to go very, very far.
[3:59:22] Thank you.
[3:59:22] Ron people will get
what they deserve.
[3:59:26] Thank you.
[3:59:26] Sick fucking sick.
[3:59:29] Shame on you.
[3:59:33] John kurzmann.
[3:59:34] 
[3:59:38] We could also refrain from
using swear words because this
[3:59:42] is in the internet.
[3:59:44] Children could be watching.
[3:59:45] It's not appropriate.
[3:59:46] Not you.
[3:59:47] But when we come up, if
we don't swear as well as
[3:59:50] not use personal attacks.
[3:59:53] Sorry, I didn't mean to jump up.
[3:59:56] No, please.
[3:59:57] Come on up, John.
[3:59:58] Thank you.
[4:00:00] Could you Zoom in.
[4:00:01] Really really.
[4:00:02] On just a picture next to Zoom.
[4:00:08] So, John kurzman, Bahia
Honda way, ST Pete Beach.
[4:00:13] So I wasn't going to
talk about this today,
[4:00:16] but the talk about the Boca
ciega drive prompted me.
[4:00:20] This, for instance, is
one of our bike lanes
[4:00:21] over by Don Cesar.
[4:00:23] Notice the skid marks right
through the middle of the lane.
[4:00:28] This is the Florida
statute that says
[4:00:30] the driver of a
vehicle overtaking
[4:00:32] a bicycle or other
non-motorized vehicle,
[4:00:34] or an e-bike occupying
the same lane,
[4:00:37] must pass the bicycle
at a safe distance
[4:00:40] of not less than three feet.
[4:00:42] It also says in number three the
driver of a vehicle overtaking
[4:00:46] a bicycle or other
non-motorized vehicle,
[4:00:48] or an electric bike occupying a
bicycle lane, which is what we
[4:00:51] often do, must pass the
vehicle at a safe distance
[4:00:55] of not less than three feet.
[4:00:57] This never happens
on Gulf Boulevard.
[4:00:59] It never happens
anywhere in our city.
[4:01:02] And it's dangerous.
[4:01:04] Now, recently, the
state has come up
[4:01:06] with a new law for
e-bikes, where now they're
[4:01:09] going to say that if
you're in on the sidewalk,
[4:01:13] you can go 10 miles an hour.
[4:01:16] Well, they're saying
you can go any speed,
[4:01:18] but at 10 miles
an hour, if you're
[4:01:19] within 50 feet of a person,
that's a great step.
[4:01:22] I think, in our city.
[4:01:23] We might want to undo the
law that was mistakenly
[4:01:26] made because it
wasn't made properly,
[4:01:29] and make the law be
just 10 miles an hour
[4:01:32] when you're on the
sidewalk at any time.
[4:01:34] But at least let the e-bikes
back on the sidewalk.
[4:01:37] And let me explain why.
[4:01:38] This, for instance, is
a picture of the sun
[4:01:40] runner over in South Pasadena.
[4:01:42] But notice the size
of the sunrunner.
[4:01:45] It's totally over the line.
[4:01:48] This is the sunrunner that
almost hit me in the head.
[4:01:51] January 13 I was on my bike in
the bike lane and look at that
[4:01:56] mirror.
[4:01:56] The mirror is in the
middle of the bike lane.
[4:02:01] And then here's it is
without me circling it.
[4:02:02] So you can really
see the mirror.
[4:02:05] I mean, I felt the
wind go over my head.
[4:02:08] So then we get to this lane.
[4:02:13] They currently have two 11 foot
lanes and a three foot bike lane
[4:02:19] and a 2 foot 2 bike
lane that makes 27.
[4:02:22] So you've got 27 to
work with and you
[4:02:25] could smooth out the curbs.
[4:02:26] Great but don't turn
it into a 22 foot lane.
[4:02:32] Which road.
[4:02:33] Which is what's
being recommended.
[4:02:35] First off, notice that
those are both shadow lanes.
[4:02:39] Shadow lanes is the word for
where the bike and the car
[4:02:42] share the lane.
[4:02:43] But normally, when
you have narrow lanes.
[4:02:45] There's two lanes
in each direction.
[4:02:47] That way a car can pass
the guy on the bike.
[4:02:50] What this is doing is it means.
[4:02:53] That means you see TxDOT
traffic calming device.
[4:02:57] Everybody on a bicycle becomes
a traffic calming device.
[4:03:00] That's not fair to us.
[4:03:01] We shouldn't be the ones
holding back traffic.
[4:03:04] We need a way to get around.
[4:03:06] And they do.
[4:03:07] Also, when you do
this implementation,
[4:03:08] you have to move
all the mailboxes,
[4:03:10] which is one of the reasons
people weren't happy.
[4:03:12] And there's no parking.
[4:03:13] So I just recommend that we
really rethink this whole bike
[4:03:16] lane strategy in general.
[4:03:18] Thank you.
[4:03:19] Thank you.
[4:03:21] There are no further
general audience comments.
[4:03:25] OK thank you.
[4:03:28] Next, we have the
amended consent agenda.
[4:03:33] Do we need to read it.
[4:03:33] Is there a reading of it or
I can read the resolution.
[4:03:37] Do we need to
continue the meeting.
[4:03:39] Continue the meeting.
[4:03:40] I'm sorry.
[4:03:41] Wow Yeah, yeah.
[4:03:43] OK, I'll make a motion to
continue the meeting to 10:30.
[4:03:47] I second.
[4:03:48] 
[4:03:52] 10:30 commissioner Causey.
[4:03:58] Yes commissioner.
[4:03:59] Maldonado yes.
[4:04:00] Mayor Tate.
[4:04:01] Yes vice mayor.
[4:04:02] Marriott yes.
[4:04:03] Commissioner Robinson.
[4:04:04] Yes The motion carries.
[4:04:07] 
[4:04:10] There's a resolution
on the consent agenda.
[4:04:12] So I would just like to
read the title of it.
[4:04:14] We don't have to discuss it.
[4:04:15] A resolution number 2020
608, a resolution of the city
[4:04:19] commission of the
city of ST Pete Beach
[4:04:21] to establish a temporary amnesty
program to temporarily waive
[4:04:25] the triple fee penalty for after
the fact building permit fees
[4:04:29] beginning February 16, 2026,
through and including June 30,
[4:04:33] 2026 for permit applications
for repair or demolition
[4:04:36] of storm damaged structures and
for installation of materials
[4:04:40] and equipment within and
attached to storm damaged
[4:04:43] structures, establishing
a minimum reserve fund
[4:04:46] and providing for
an effective date.
[4:04:48] 
[4:04:53] I'll make a motion to
approve the consent agenda.
[4:04:55] I second.
[4:04:56] 
[4:05:00] Commissioner Maldonado.
[4:05:01] Yes mayor Tate.
[4:05:02] Yes vice mayor.
[4:05:03] Marriott yes.
[4:05:04] Commissioner Robinson.
[4:05:05] Yes commissioner Casey
Yes Motion carries.
[4:05:08] 
[4:05:11] Correction that motion
should be to approve
[4:05:13] the consent agenda, as amended.
[4:05:15] As amended.
[4:05:15] Yes do I need to start
over, or can I just say no.
[4:05:18] That's OK.
[4:05:19] OK thank you.
[4:05:22] That's right.
[4:05:22] Yeah I know.
[4:05:23] No that's fine.
[4:05:24] We'll be next.
[4:05:26] We're going to
approve B separately.
[4:05:28] Sure OK.
[4:05:30] I also understand that we
moved an item out of here
[4:05:32] into the action items.
[4:05:33] I don't know if it goes
first or goes go second to.
[4:05:36] Now now.
[4:05:37] Perfect thank you.
[4:05:39] Mayor due to the interest and
technicality of this project,
[4:05:45] I've asked public
services director
[4:05:48] Mills to give a brief overview
of the project for you
[4:05:51] before you ask questions.
[4:05:53] Is that the desire
of the commission,
[4:05:54] or would you like to
just ask questions.
[4:05:58] Frankly, I personally would like
to hear it, but that's fine.
[4:06:01] Yeah no objection.
[4:06:02] OK OK.
[4:06:09] Good evening.
[4:06:10] Mayor commissioners,
for the record, Camden
[4:06:12] Mills public services director.
[4:06:14] So I appreciate the
opportunity tonight
[4:06:16] to provide some
clarification on the proposed
[4:06:18] project for the Boca ciega Bay
stormwater outfall improvements.
[4:06:23] This project is a combination of
three of our capital projects.
[4:06:27] One for the Bella vista
neighborhood, one for the dances
[4:06:29] are and then another for the
pass-a-grille neighborhood.
[4:06:33] We package those
3 into one project
[4:06:36] in the effort of having
economies of scale
[4:06:39] and hopefully
getting better bids.
[4:06:41] So our project
goal with this was
[4:06:44] to improve the city's
ability to access,
[4:06:46] inspect, maintain, and preserve
functionality of tide backflow
[4:06:51] valves at 13 different
locations to help
[4:06:54] reduce sunny day flooding.
[4:06:58] This image that you
see here, this is what
[4:07:00] I mean by sunny day flooding.
[4:07:02] This is where when we have
high tides, elevated water
[4:07:05] in the Bay, that
pressure backflows
[4:07:08] into our stormwater
system and then
[4:07:09] ultimately into our roadways.
[4:07:13] This graph here,
this shows recorded
[4:07:16] water levels near the dances
are place based on a gauge.
[4:07:21] That's out in ST Petersburg.
[4:07:24] You can see here in
the bottom of the chart
[4:07:26] that gray stripe that
represents the existing roadway,
[4:07:29] elevations in that
neighborhood, which
[4:07:31] range from about 1.5 up to 2.5.
[4:07:34] And then that up and down line.
[4:07:36] Those are the
recorded water levels.
[4:07:38] So what this graph demonstrates
is that pretty frequently.
[4:07:42] We have tide elevations that
are higher than our existing
[4:07:45] roadway elevations.
[4:07:46] 
[4:07:49] This exhibit here, this just
shows an example of the maritana
[4:07:53] neighborhood specifically.
[4:07:55] So you can see here where we
have the roadway that ranges
[4:07:58] in the 1.6 1.7 feet range
and then our seawall up
[4:08:03] at the 5 foot elevation.
[4:08:05] This is a condition
where we have sunny day
[4:08:07] and a low tide and
a no check valve.
[4:08:10] So you can see in this scenario
there is no roadway flooding.
[4:08:14] When we move into
the scenario where
[4:08:15] we do have those high tides
that occur on a monthly basis,
[4:08:19] where those tides are
elevated in our roads,
[4:08:22] in a situation where we
don't have a tide check
[4:08:24] valve in place, that water
would find its elevation
[4:08:27] and the elevation of
the water in the road
[4:08:29] would match that tide
elevation out into the Bay.
[4:08:34] And that's the purpose
of the tide check valve
[4:08:36] there, as you can see
with this example.
[4:08:38] The goal of these tide check
valves is when the Bay Water is
[4:08:41] elevated at an elevation
higher than our roads,
[4:08:44] that tide check
valve is in place
[4:08:46] to help block it so our
roadways don't get flooded.
[4:08:49] Now, important thing that I'd
like to point out with this
[4:08:53] project it is a sunny day
tidal flooding tool to combat.
[4:08:57] It does not address rainfall,
flooding or stormwater flooding.
[4:09:01] So in this scenario,
this is when
[4:09:03] we have a rainy day and a
high tide and no check valve.
[4:09:06] You're going to have
flooding in your roadway.
[4:09:08] But even in this scenario where
it's a rainy day, high tide
[4:09:12] and you do have a
check valve, you're
[4:09:14] still going to have
flooding in that roadway
[4:09:17] until that tide
is able to lower,
[4:09:19] and then that water can
evacuate off the roadway
[4:09:22] and through the system.
[4:09:23] So this is just a
point of clarification
[4:09:25] that the goal of this
project is tidal flooding,
[4:09:28] sunny day flooding,
not necessarily
[4:09:30] rainfall or stormwater.
[4:09:33] This here just gives you a
graphic of some of the existing
[4:09:37] tie check valves.
[4:09:38] So these are what we have
in our current condition.
[4:09:41] These are passive
type valves that
[4:09:43] open when the water
on the back side of it
[4:09:45] is greater than the
pressure on the other side.
[4:09:48] Some of these are installed at
the outfall end of the pipe,
[4:09:51] as you can see at the
picture on the left.
[4:09:54] In a lot of cases, these
are typically submerged.
[4:09:57] These are ones that
we currently use
[4:09:59] commercial divers to maintain.
[4:10:01] And then in the
bottom right corner
[4:10:03] here, this is an example of the
same type of passive tide check
[4:10:06] valve installed in a structure.
[4:10:09] And as you can see in these
current configurations,
[4:10:12] we're able to only really
maintain one side of that valve
[4:10:15] as it's situated
currently, we're
[4:10:17] not able to access both sides of
that valve to clean and inspect.
[4:10:23] With the proposed
those projects.
[4:10:25] We're proposing to install
a concrete vault structure
[4:10:30] box where the tie check valve
would fit inside of that,
[4:10:34] which is shown in blue.
[4:10:35] Here, that tie check
valve in section of pipe
[4:10:38] would be able to
be disconnected.
[4:10:40] And lifted up out of that vault,
which would allow us to be
[4:10:43] able to maintain both
sides of that valve,
[4:10:45] but would also
give us the ability
[4:10:47] to maintain landside rather than
having to maintain in the water.
[4:10:52] As you can see in
this graph here
[4:10:53] where I've highlighted
the lines with orange,
[4:10:56] those are hatch doors.
[4:10:58] So those would be at grade.
[4:10:59] Those doors would
be able to open up.
[4:11:00] And then we'd be able to get
inside that vault to access it.
[4:11:05] This image here, this just shows
a typical baffle structure.
[4:11:09] The purpose of these
is to catch debris,
[4:11:13] sediment and any
floatables before it
[4:11:15] gets to the tie check valve.
[4:11:17] So the purpose of
here is if we had,
[4:11:20] tree limbs or different
types of debris that
[4:11:22] would get caught in that valve.
[4:11:23] We installed these type
of baffle structures
[4:11:25] upstream to try to
capture that, so it
[4:11:28] doesn't decrease
the functionality
[4:11:31] of the check valve.
[4:11:33] So with this project,
we are looking
[4:11:35] at two different locations in
the Bella vista neighborhood.
[4:11:38] As shown here on the map.
[4:11:40] This image on the right.
[4:11:41] This is just an excerpt
from the construction
[4:11:43] plans for this project.
[4:11:45] The orange lines is the
existing storm pipe.
[4:11:48] And you can see where
we with that gray box.
[4:11:51] That's what we're proposing
for that check valve
[4:11:54] vault vault structure
which can be
[4:11:57] accessible with our utilities.
[4:11:58] Crane truck from the roadway.
[4:12:01] We're also looking at five
different locations in dancer.
[4:12:05] These are the
locations that already
[4:12:06] have an elevated seawall.
[4:12:09] As you can see here on
the image of the left.
[4:12:12] This is the Don Jose location.
[4:12:15] And that or that red box
that's hatched out that
[4:12:18] will be about the footprint of
where that maintenance valve box
[4:12:21] would be in those locations.
[4:12:22] So we're putting them
immediately downstream
[4:12:24] of the existing curb inlets.
[4:12:28] And then we're also looking
at six different locations
[4:12:31] in pass-a-grille.
[4:12:32] The pass-a-grille tie check
valves were installed around
[4:12:34] the 2016 2017 time frame.
[4:12:37] And we're seeing
similar type of issues
[4:12:39] where we still
have tidal flooding
[4:12:41] in their current configuration.
[4:12:43] They're difficult to maintain
with our existing staff.
[4:12:48] So the project
budget for this, we
[4:12:51] through the city's capital
improvement plan funding,
[4:12:53] we had about $1.7 million
remaining for this project that
[4:12:58] comes from our local
flooding mitigation fund,
[4:13:01] as well as our water
quality improvement fund.
[4:13:04] When we put this project out to
bid, we did receive two bids.
[4:13:07] The low bid that met the
qualifications of our criteria
[4:13:10] was about $1.1 million.
[4:13:14] A million of that
is for construction,
[4:13:16] and then about
$100,000 of that is
[4:13:17] for contingencies
for any unforeseen
[4:13:20] or unknowns that may arise.
[4:13:22] So the proposed project
is within the budgeted
[4:13:26] funds through our SIP.
[4:13:29] And then discussing
with our operations team
[4:13:31] and evaluating what
the operations impact
[4:13:34] would be of this project.
[4:13:36] First is increase our
ability for maintenance.
[4:13:39] So this would reduce our
needs for commercial divers
[4:13:42] and give us the ability to
maintain these check valves
[4:13:45] in-house with our crane truck.
[4:13:47] And then also preserve the
functionality of these check
[4:13:50] valves, being able
to access them
[4:13:53] from land where we can
maintain both sides
[4:13:55] of those check valves.
[4:13:57] And then also
having those baffle
[4:13:58] structures that catch
the debris upstream
[4:14:01] before it gets to those valves.
[4:14:03] Ultimately, these are the two
main goals of this project,
[4:14:06] is to increase our
ability to maintain
[4:14:08] and then preserve functionality
of those check valves.
[4:14:12] With that, I'm happy to answer
any questions Mr. Robinson.
[4:14:20] I just wanted to make
sure that I guess
[4:14:24] my question revolves around this
project hasn't been maintained.
[4:14:30] So that's where we're at
right now trying to do that.
[4:14:35] But is it a project.
[4:14:39] Does this work.
[4:14:41] I mean, if it's
maintained, is it work.
[4:14:43] Are you confident in its
ability to do the job.
[4:14:47] I am confident that this project
would increase our ability
[4:14:51] to maintain these
check valves which,
[4:14:53] which we don't currently have.
[4:14:55] And are there any
other solutions
[4:14:57] for the issues at hand for the
flooding for tidal flooding.
[4:15:03] This is really the best option
that we have at hand right now.
[4:15:06] I mean, ultimately
down the road we
[4:15:07] would look for pump stations
for to try to evacuate some
[4:15:11] of that water,
especially when we look
[4:15:13] at the rainfall type problem.
[4:15:15] But this is a type of solution.
[4:15:17] Then we vetted this through
other communities as well.
[4:15:20] Fort Lauderdale,
ST Augustine, some
[4:15:23] of these other
coastal communities
[4:15:24] that have similar issues.
[4:15:26] And they've all kind of came
we started out with the check
[4:15:29] valves on the pipe end,
and then we moved to more
[4:15:32] of an in-line type valve.
[4:15:33] And this is kind of what
people are moving to is closer
[4:15:36] to the roadway,
something in a vault that
[4:15:38] isn't dependent on
maintenance underwater.
[4:15:41] I just want to make sure that
it's not a Band-Aid, that we're
[4:15:45] not spending this type
of money for a Band-Aid,
[4:15:48] and we're going to be down the
road going, oh, we spent this,
[4:15:51] but we need to do this now.
[4:15:53] I'm just trying to
think of the big picture
[4:15:56] on here versus if there was
something that was a better
[4:16:03] option, let's say,
then my question
[4:16:07] would be how much does it
cost to have divers go in
[4:16:10] and do this.
[4:16:11] And what is the
maintenance schedule
[4:16:14] for something like this.
[4:16:17] So I think this is the best tool
that we can do for a low cost,
[4:16:21] near-term type improvement.
[4:16:23] I mean, ultimately, we would
move into to storm water pump
[4:16:25] stations to help with
our flooding issues,
[4:16:27] but that's drastically
more costly.
[4:16:30] And design and
permitting required.
[4:16:32] So I think this is a good
step as we move towards move
[4:16:35] towards that long term plan.
[4:16:37] Maintenance wise, if we were
to use commercial divers,
[4:16:42] we would think this
would cost about
[4:16:43] $200,000 a year to be able to
maintain with commercial divers.
[4:16:48] But with that you're
still only maintaining
[4:16:50] one side of the valve.
[4:16:52] Post storm.
[4:16:53] We did some cleaning
of the valves
[4:16:54] in the pass-a-grille
neighborhood.
[4:16:57] We witnessed that they were
covered with barnacles.
[4:16:59] So we cleaned
those barnacles up.
[4:17:01] And then the dive report
said, well, the valve still
[4:17:03] wasn't completely sealing shut.
[4:17:05] Those type of problems,
would be easily handled if we
[4:17:09] could maintain them on land.
[4:17:13] I think that was
my big question.
[4:17:14] I just want to make sure
we're not looking at band-aids
[4:17:17] for something that we're
going to end up spending
[4:17:19] a lot of money down the road.
[4:17:20] And what do you think the life
expectancy of this for now,
[4:17:24] the vault structure itself would
have a long life expectancy.
[4:17:27] I mean, that we would
expect 30 plus years.
[4:17:29] The tide check
valves themselves.
[4:17:31] That's something we're
going to have to evaluate
[4:17:33] through this project.
[4:17:35] Hopefully we'll be
able to extend the life
[4:17:37] of these tide check valves.
[4:17:40] Being that we are going to be
able to maintain them better
[4:17:42] than we have in the past.
[4:17:44] But that's something that we're
going to have to evaluate as we
[4:17:47] maintain is exactly how often
are we going to have to replace
[4:17:50] these rubber tide check valves.
[4:17:53] I think in five years, 10
years, I'm hoping 5 to 10 years.
[4:17:56] Yeah and the cost
on that is they
[4:17:59] range from about
depending on diameter.
[4:18:01] There are about $10,000
to $20,000 a piece.
[4:18:05] The maintenance for a
new to replace the valve,
[4:18:11] just making sure it's another.
[4:18:14] We have also discussed this
with the city of ST Petersburg
[4:18:18] and discussing some
of the challenges
[4:18:20] they have in the maintenance
of tide check valves.
[4:18:22] And they also reiterated
to us that, having them
[4:18:25] in these maintenance valve
structures closer to the road is
[4:18:28] gives you the best ability
to have a functioning.
[4:18:30] It makes sense.
[4:18:31] Again, I just want
to make sure we're
[4:18:33] spending the money wisely
and getting what we need
[4:18:37] to get out of it for everybody.
[4:18:40] Thank you.
[4:18:41] Thank you, Commissioner Causey.
[4:18:43] Yeah, I am still unclear
on the maintenance schedule
[4:18:47] that you believe will keep
the barnacles from being
[4:18:52] a problem on the redesign
that the modification
[4:18:57] you're talking about.
[4:18:59] That's going to be
something that we're
[4:19:01] going to have to
adjust as we see
[4:19:04] these conditions initially we're
going to try to start quarterly.
[4:19:08] That's going to be our goal.
[4:19:09] But if we need to if that
has to move to twice a year,
[4:19:12] we'll do that.
[4:19:12] If that has to move to
monthly, we'll outline that.
[4:19:15] But our maintenance plan
right now is in the past
[4:19:19] has been non-existent.
[4:19:20] So this is something
we're developing
[4:19:21] and we're going to have to
evaluate and adjust as needed.
[4:19:24] 
[4:19:27] So are we still going
to need the divers
[4:19:29] to come out and clean
the outsides of them
[4:19:31] at the outfalls?
[4:19:33] We would we're looking at
purchasing a John boat so we can
[4:19:36] help perform some of that
outfall maintenance in-house
[4:19:39] rather than using divers.
[4:19:42] But yeah, outfall ends
of pipes may still need
[4:19:44] to be maintained with divers.
[4:19:45] That's where we could use
it without a check valve.
[4:19:47] I'm sorry.
[4:19:48] Just with or without
a check valve.
[4:19:49] Yes yeah.
[4:19:51] OK I'm sorry.
[4:19:53] Yeah I mean, that's the problem
with the original installation
[4:19:57] is you literally
couldn't maintain
[4:19:59] it because of the bad design.
[4:20:00] So we just don't want to
have another bad design.
[4:20:05] So we have the
engineering company
[4:20:07] is going to do this install, but
they are also vetting what we
[4:20:12] have as the proposed design or.
[4:20:15] Yes yeah, we did have an
engineering consultant that
[4:20:18] engineered this
design and signed
[4:20:20] and sealed these plans with
their professional engineering
[4:20:23] license.
[4:20:24] 
[4:20:26] So are we still spending the
$200,000 a year for the diving
[4:20:31] divers for maintenance.
[4:20:32] That's to be
determined right now.
[4:20:34] That contract is
currently out for bid.
[4:20:37] So we'll see what those
prices come back at.
[4:20:39] But yes, but the answer
is yes thereabouts.
[4:20:42] Our plan would be to keep
diving, keep cleaning
[4:20:46] these outfalls as well as
the vac trucks that you see,
[4:20:50] driving the street is
continual maintenance.
[4:20:52] I'm all for the maintenance.
[4:20:53] Trust me.
[4:20:54] I'm all for the
maintenance on that.
[4:20:56] Yeah sorry.
[4:20:57] Let me just finish.
[4:20:59] Thank you.
[4:20:59] Yeah, yeah.
[4:21:00] So I am definitely all
for spending the money.
[4:21:04] I think that this can
be part of a solution
[4:21:08] that we're going
to need for more
[4:21:10] funding, like for our other
infrastructure things.
[4:21:14] So whatever we
need to spend, I'm
[4:21:17] committed to not
having salt water
[4:21:19] on the city streets,
but not just salt water.
[4:21:22] I think that there
shouldn't be a foot
[4:21:24] of Rainwater that's
sitting on our streets
[4:21:26] waiting for low tide.
[4:21:29] So I just think that is
something, as a city,
[4:21:32] I would like to see us adopt
and have that as a standard,
[4:21:36] that we're not going to
have giant pools of water
[4:21:39] sitting on the streets.
[4:21:40] And as I've gone around for four
months now and talked to people,
[4:21:44] this is one of the biggest
frustrations throughout all
[4:21:47] of district 3 is the bad grading
or else dirty storm drains
[4:21:54] or that have barnacles
in them because they've
[4:21:57] been under the sea level.
[4:22:01] And also not having maintenance
on the outfall valve.
[4:22:05] So we're going to
do a redesign now
[4:22:08] and we're going to do work
on this outfall valve.
[4:22:11] I just think it's important
to undersell this idea
[4:22:14] to the people that
we're trying to help,
[4:22:17] that you're still going
to have a lot of water
[4:22:20] on a thunderstorm,
which we have every day.
[4:22:23] If it's high tide, because this
doesn't solve rain problems.
[4:22:28] That's correct.
[4:22:28] Yeah understood.
[4:22:29] So I just want that to be clear.
[4:22:32] Yes, sir.
[4:22:35] Any questions.
[4:22:36] OK I had one more thing.
[4:22:39] Wasn't 625,000 of this covered
via grant that was a different
[4:22:45] that grant was for a different
project that was specifically
[4:22:48] for the three locations in
the Don Cesar that don't have
[4:22:51] the elevated seawalls.
[4:22:53] It was for those
locations as well.
[4:22:55] It's those.
[4:22:56] And those are we looking at
doing anything with those others
[4:23:01] on this program as well.
[4:23:03] Those are in the program as well
as part of this design, that one
[4:23:06] we're getting ready to put out
to bid to see what construction
[4:23:09] numbers come back with.
[4:23:10] And then we'll
present that to you.
[4:23:12] Thank you.
[4:23:14] Just one more question
for you, please.
[4:23:17] You mentioned needing
divers for the maintenance.
[4:23:19] I assume that's
when we have a check
[4:23:21] valve in place on those pipes.
[4:23:23] We'll need divers
for maintenance.
[4:23:24] Or if there's not a check
valve, do we still need divers
[4:23:27] for the maintenance if it's.
[4:23:29] They'd be where we
have check valves.
[4:23:31] So in the city I think
throughout we have about
[4:23:33] 40 different check valves.
[4:23:34] So we do have several locations
where this new design won't be
[4:23:38] implemented, that we would still
be dependent on our old means
[4:23:41] of maintaining, and we
still have some that
[4:23:43] don't have check valves at all.
[4:23:45] And theoretically they
don't need a diver.
[4:23:47] They just need those you
can clean from the street.
[4:23:50] From the street.
[4:23:50] Yeah coincidentally
just witnessed
[4:23:52] it at my house the other day.
[4:23:53] So thank you.
[4:23:54] All right.
[4:23:54] Very good.
[4:23:55] Thank you.
[4:23:55] Yep.
[4:23:57] OK.
[4:23:58] 
[4:24:02] Do we have a motion.
[4:24:05] I'll make a motion to authorize
the city manager to execute
[4:24:08] a service agreement with BCS
construction group for the Boca
[4:24:11] ciega stormwater
outfall improvements
[4:24:14] capital project
in the amount not
[4:24:16] to exceed $1,173,370 I second.
[4:24:24] Mayor Tate.
[4:24:25] Yes vice mayor.
[4:24:26] Marriott yes.
[4:24:28] Commissioner Robinson.
[4:24:29] Yes, Commissioner.
[4:24:30] Yes commissioner.
[4:24:31] Maldonado yes.
[4:24:33] The motion carries.
[4:24:34] 
[4:24:40] OK thank you.
[4:24:41] I think the next is our action
item on the resolution 2020 607
[4:24:47] for establishing and
amending public parking
[4:24:48] fees, a resolution of the city
commission of the city of ST
[4:24:51] Pete Beach to establish a
parking rate fee schedule
[4:24:54] and providing for
an effective date.
[4:24:57] Good evening, Mayor
and commissioners.
[4:24:59] Adam Boyer, assistant
city manager.
[4:25:01] This is a project we've been
working on for a long time.
[4:25:03] We have some new members
on the commission,
[4:25:05] so I just wanted to back up just
a little bit, just to give you
[4:25:08] a little bit of history of where
we're at and why we got here
[4:25:11] and how we got here.
[4:25:13] About 2025, we did a
parking action plan
[4:25:16] with a third party vendor
that came in and evaluated
[4:25:18] our parking system.
[4:25:21] Part of that was
several recommendations,
[4:25:23] some of them tied
to fee enhancements
[4:25:25] as far as parking
fees and fines.
[4:25:28] So what we did was
we put together,
[4:25:31] with a lack of a better word,
an A Old Orchard list of fee
[4:25:34] enhancements that were you may
be able to gain some revenue,
[4:25:38] you may be able
to help turnover.
[4:25:40] And we presented that to the
finance and budget review
[4:25:43] board at one of their
meetings that resulted
[4:25:46] in a list of recommendations to
bring to you all, which we did
[4:25:51] bring those to the previous
commission at the last meeting,
[4:25:54] I believe.
[4:25:56] So the resolution that
you have in front of you
[4:25:58] is a result of
those two meetings
[4:26:01] and what we were asked to
bring back to the commission
[4:26:04] for your consideration tonight.
[4:26:06] I've heard some questions,
in the community where
[4:26:09] some of these things came from.
[4:26:10] And a lot of them, when you look
at the list in front of you,
[4:26:13] the sunset pricing,
a lot of those
[4:26:15] were recommendations that
were made by the parking
[4:26:17] action plan for us to explore.
[4:26:19] So that's why we as a staff went
through and ran some numbers
[4:26:22] and just wanted to
provide you with as
[4:26:24] much information as possible
to make your decision base.
[4:26:29] I will tell you that some of
the technology that we have,
[4:26:32] the data is not
fantastic in some cases.
[4:26:35] So some of them are estimates.
[4:26:36] So a lot of them are estimates.
[4:26:38] In fact.
[4:26:38] So like I explained to
the previous commission,
[4:26:40] the dollar amounts that we have
there are not exact figures
[4:26:43] that you're going to capture.
[4:26:45] We certainly had some data
limitations in that aspect.
[4:26:48] So I just want to flip
through each one just
[4:26:51] quickly just a
reminder for those
[4:26:53] that were on commission and just
an update for our new members.
[4:26:57] The sunset pricing, what that
does is increase the hourly
[4:27:01] rate by $1 after 4:00.
[4:27:04] And you see the estimated impact
on that seasonal pricing is
[4:27:08] raising it by $1 for
what we would say
[4:27:10] are in-season, where we're
about 34% of our parking revenue
[4:27:13] comes from.
[4:27:14] And that's February
1 through April 30.
[4:27:21] The currently right
now our parking rates
[4:27:24] are not consistent
across the whole beach.
[4:27:26] The County parking lot
has as a different rate.
[4:27:28] So that third option
is to basically
[4:27:31] standardize our city
rate throughout all
[4:27:34] the parking facilities.
[4:27:36] The next one is just a
general increase of $0.50 per
[4:27:39] hour at all of our facilities.
[4:27:42] Currently, weekends are
considered Saturday and Sunday.
[4:27:46] Your next option
increases the weekend
[4:27:48] by adding Friday
as a weekend day,
[4:27:50] and not just
Saturday and Sunday.
[4:27:52] And then the last
option that you
[4:27:54] see on there is increasing
the right now we have
[4:27:56] a flat holiday rate of $25.
[4:27:59] This would raise it to 40.
[4:28:01] This is one we made a
little bit of change
[4:28:02] with staff, because
there was some discussion
[4:28:04] with the old commission,
the previous commission,
[4:28:08] regarding the
holiday rates, and we
[4:28:12] didn't feel comfortable
that we had the data
[4:28:14] to present that back to you.
[4:28:15] So what our recommendation
is staff would be,
[4:28:18] is to adopt this.
[4:28:19] We put the language in there
on a case by case basis.
[4:28:22] We would like to keep the hourly
rate through the three upcoming
[4:28:25] holidays, which
would be Memorial,
[4:28:27] 4th of July and Labor Day, to
be able to provide you data.
[4:28:31] What it looks like if we did the
flat rate in 2025 versus just
[4:28:35] keeping the hourly rate in
2026 and not charging a holiday
[4:28:40] rate during those
time periods, we
[4:28:41] felt like that would be
really the only fair way
[4:28:43] to show you the data on what
that would look like if we
[4:28:48] didn't use a holiday rate.
[4:28:50] The other thing that was brought
up at the previous commission
[4:28:52] was a special event rate.
[4:28:54] So we did change the
terminology in there
[4:28:57] and say holiday
special event rate.
[4:28:59] We put a range in there and
said case by case basis.
[4:29:03] And that just gives
you all the flexibility
[4:29:04] that if you decide there's
a large scale special event
[4:29:07] that you want to change
your pay structure for,
[4:29:11] we can do it more
readily to meet whatever
[4:29:13] you all would like us to do.
[4:29:15] And again, that not just tied
to obviously not just tied
[4:29:18] to revenue enhancement,
that's also
[4:29:20] tied to controlling our
parking out here, controlling
[4:29:22] traffic, things of that nature.
[4:29:24] So, a lot of components, not
just revenue enhancement.
[4:29:28] So the two items that we did
discuss at the last meeting that
[4:29:32] were not recommended by
finance and budget review,
[4:29:34] and we didn't feel
we had consensus
[4:29:36] from the previous
commission on that.
[4:29:38] You don't see on your option
list is a transaction fees.
[4:29:42] So that would be basically
we don't have a cash option
[4:29:46] anymore, so that
every time a customer
[4:29:48] uses a credit card, which is
every time they pay for parking,
[4:29:52] there is a transaction fee
that right now the city pays.
[4:29:55] It's different because we
have two different vendors.
[4:29:58] Now we have park mobile
and we have flowbird.
[4:30:00] So those are two different
transaction fees.
[4:30:02] So that's not included in
the resolution before you.
[4:30:05] And then the other was reducing
or not raising the current rates
[4:30:10] for the time period from 8:00 AM
to 12 o'clock o'clock noon that
[4:30:15] we did not include in the
resolution either, because we
[4:30:17] didn't feel we had consensus.
[4:30:18] So that's basically what
you have before you.
[4:30:22] I will say that
we pulled parking
[4:30:26] out of the fee ordinance.
[4:30:28] So now it's adopted
through resolution.
[4:30:30] So we would need some
type of action tonight.
[4:30:32] Obviously it's to
your all's discretion.
[4:30:35] And after the public comment
how you want to proceed.
[4:30:38] If you want to keep
all these if you
[4:30:39] want to eliminate some if you
want to just keep it the way
[4:30:41] it is.
[4:30:42] So we would need
some type of action
[4:30:44] from the commission
tonight on that.
[4:30:46] But with that, I'm happy
to answer any questions.
[4:30:48] And like I said, I know
we have new members,
[4:30:50] so I'm happy to answer any
questions that you might have.
[4:30:53] Thank you.
[4:30:53] Any questions from the
other commissioners.
[4:30:56] 
[4:30:59] A question I think
I zoned out on that.
[4:31:02] Sorry, I spoke fast.
[4:31:05] So we don't have the credit card
fee in here that is not included
[4:31:10] in the current resolution.
[4:31:12] Because I'm just
going by numbers
[4:31:14] that I saw from last time.
[4:31:16] I guess the increase is
that just that's the OK
[4:31:22] the delta between the two.
[4:31:23] OK sorry.
[4:31:24] I just wanted to make
sure I understood
[4:31:26] that it didn't
include that because I
[4:31:28] was fine with including that.
[4:31:29] Because when I go out to
dinner and everywhere else
[4:31:31] I seem to go these
days, I get charged back
[4:31:34] a credit card fee regardless.
[4:31:36] And then again, I could ask
for a tip everywhere too.
[4:31:39] So sure.
[4:31:40] And again, switching
this to resolution,
[4:31:43] does provide a little bit
more flexibility for you all.
[4:31:46] Again, we can adjust up or down
with just a simple meeting.
[4:31:51] So it does provide some
flexibility if you want
[4:31:53] to look at something different.
[4:31:54] Can we extend the time so
that we can continue the.
[4:31:57] Sorry yeah.
[4:31:58] I'll make a motion to
extend the meeting to 11.
[4:32:00] I second a quick break
for the restroom.
[4:32:05] We take a quick restroom break.
[4:32:07] For those of us that
have been on the dais.
[4:32:09] What's that.
[4:32:09] We need a vote.
[4:32:10] We need to vote on
the motion first.
[4:32:11] To vote on the current.
[4:32:12] Fair enough.
[4:32:12] Yep post.
[4:32:14] Post, vote on the
motion, please.
[4:32:16] Clerk which one.
[4:32:17] The bathroom first or the other.
[4:32:19] Motion to extend to 11.
[4:32:20] Motion to extend to 11.
[4:32:21] We'll call it a fire.
[4:32:22] Marriott yes, Commissioner.
[4:32:23] Robinson yes, Commissioner.
[4:32:25] Yes, Commissioner.
[4:32:26] Maldonado yes, Mayor.
[4:32:27] Tate yes.
[4:32:28] 
[4:32:31] And now I agree to
recess the meeting.
[4:32:33] We'll recess for five minutes.
[4:32:35] Five minutes.
[4:32:35] OK five minutes.
[4:32:36] We'll be right back.
[4:32:37] 
[4:32:41] Sitting too long.
[4:32:43] No yeah, exactly.
[4:32:48] I'm voting for talk to John.
[4:32:50] We'll see how he
always dresses up.
[4:32:51] I don't know.
[4:32:54] I don't want to move.
[4:32:55] I don't know if we can get
the jacket off him or not.
[4:32:57] Oh, man.
[4:32:58] Legs got my sea legs.
[4:33:02] A whole lot of reasons why it's
good to live in my district.
[4:33:04] But the best ones
that I'm used to.
[4:33:06] The snacks.
[4:33:07] Oh, yeah.
[4:33:09] So we just heard the
presentation on the proposed
[4:38:06] parking rate changes.
[4:38:07] Thank you, Adam, for doing so.
[4:38:08] Yes, sir.
[4:38:09] I think we got a
few questions in.
[4:38:10] Or are there other
questions to have.
[4:38:13] I'm looking at
other commissioners
[4:38:14] and OK, I have a few
personal comments,
[4:38:17] and this is something that
I've already at least made
[4:38:21] my thoughts known to Francis.
[4:38:23] So my concern, I just
campaigned on about six months
[4:38:28] of walking around and basically
saying that we want to welcome
[4:38:31] visitors to our island.
[4:38:32] I'm most particularly
interested in the impacts
[4:38:35] to our small businesses, our
restaurants, our entertainments,
[4:38:39] our shopping areas.
[4:38:41] And so what intrigues me
is as an alternate to this.
[4:38:43] And I'm not saying we can't go
forward with pieces of this,
[4:38:45] but what I'm intrigued by
more so is a duration based
[4:38:50] dynamic parking
structure, which says,
[4:38:53] I imagine if you're
coming to visit our city
[4:38:56] and you want to come
have dinner and you maybe
[4:38:58] want to do a little shopping,
an hour or two feels
[4:39:00] like a reasonable amount of
time to do that kind turn
[4:39:03] that spot over
within an hour or two
[4:39:05] and come in and do some
shopping and do a nice one
[4:39:08] of our nice restaurants.
[4:39:10] I think when you start getting
into 3, 4, 5 hour durations,
[4:39:13] you're getting into the people
that are just hanging out
[4:39:15] on the beach and doing some
other things that maybe tie up
[4:39:18] those parking spaces that
are so valuable to us
[4:39:21] and that are our restaurants
and business owners want
[4:39:24] us to turn over more quickly.
[4:39:26] And so as I look
at this, I'm more.
[4:39:29] And I want to ask
staff at some point
[4:39:32] how we can investigate
a dynamic pricing based
[4:39:36] on, again, what I'll
call duration of time
[4:39:38] that they're staying there.
[4:39:39] I would like to see us turn
those spots over, because they
[4:39:43] were coming and shopping and
eating in our restaurants
[4:39:46] and being fair to those folks
that want to come do that
[4:39:49] and patronize our businesses
is something I don't want
[4:39:52] to punish, for example, with
just sunset pricing, which to me
[4:39:54] says dinner time of thing.
[4:39:57] So for me, I'm intrigued
by some of these are great.
[4:40:02] I think some of these I
would love to revisit.
[4:40:04] But I think part of what I need
to understand from the city
[4:40:07] is what our
capabilities are to do.
[4:40:11] Dynamic based pricing again
based on duration of stay.
[4:40:15] If I'm staying for
an hour or two,
[4:40:18] reasonable rate
gets more expensive
[4:40:20] as you plan to stay longer
and tie up that spot that US
[4:40:23] and our business
owners would rather
[4:40:24] you turn over and let
somebody else come in
[4:40:26] and have dinner as well.
[4:40:27] So your thoughts
on that, please.
[4:40:29] Yes, sir.
[4:40:30] Our city manager
preps us very well.
[4:40:31] So I knew that.
[4:40:32] I knew that question was coming.
[4:40:33] So we did some work on
that today actually.
[4:40:36] So just a little bit
of background right
[4:40:39] now like I mentioned,
we have two vendors,
[4:40:41] park mobile and flowbird.
[4:40:43] Both of them have an app based
on flowbird, the pedestal.
[4:40:46] Basically a company
bought both of those
[4:40:49] and is basically
incorporating those right now.
[4:40:51] Park mobile is, I would say
the more advanced of the two.
[4:40:55] The data we get is much better.
[4:40:56] And the ability to utilize
that form is much better.
[4:41:02] So we reached out, staff
reached out to them.
[4:41:05] Today they can do that.
[4:41:07] What you're asking can be
done as far as they can do it.
[4:41:10] Obviously they can
do it based on time
[4:41:12] because that's in part of
our presentation, obviously.
[4:41:14] But they can also do
it based on duration
[4:41:17] of the parking experience.
[4:41:19] So if you chose to
do something where
[4:41:22] the first two hours
were one price and it
[4:41:24] escalated for hours 3, 4 and 5.
[4:41:27] That is something that
the platform can do.
[4:41:29] They confirmed to us today,
as far as us presenting you
[4:41:32] with data of what that would
look like in comparison
[4:41:36] to what we currently have.
[4:41:38] I believe we can bring
something back to you.
[4:41:40] It's going to take a
little bit of time,
[4:41:41] I would say maybe 30 or
60 days just to be safe,
[4:41:45] but I would just
caution that the data
[4:41:48] points are not fantastic.
[4:41:50] And I'll just give
you one example.
[4:41:52] We used to the holidays are
actually a perfect example.
[4:41:56] We know how many transactions
occurred on a holiday.
[4:41:58] We don't know how long
they stayed on a holiday.
[4:42:00] So we would have to take some
assumptions when we bring back
[4:42:04] data to you to show you what
your revenues would look like
[4:42:07] or what your revenue
losses would look like.
[4:42:10] But certainly what
you're asking to do
[4:42:12] is able to be done on the
platform that we utilize.
[4:42:15] And then I've used
these apps before.
[4:42:18] I go lunch or whatever
it is, and then I choose
[4:42:21] to want to extend longer.
[4:42:23] Even though I extend
for another hour or two,
[4:42:25] theoretically, then I
extend at the higher
[4:42:26] rate rather than right.
[4:42:28] I believe over a new situation.
[4:42:31] I want to be able to obviously
we don't want them just
[4:42:33] saying, all right, two hours.
[4:42:34] Then they finish it up and they
go, I need another two hours
[4:42:36] and they get the
lower rate every time.
[4:42:37] Obviously if you're extending
into or starting over,
[4:42:41] we'd want to know that you're
still in that same zone.
[4:42:43] I believe it's based on zone.
[4:42:44] I suspect they figured
that could occur.
[4:42:47] So I believe it's
probably based on zone.
[4:42:49] So obviously if you move
to a different parking
[4:42:51] area in the city, it
would probably start over.
[4:42:54] But if you're just
moving to the next spot
[4:42:55] or just letting it expire
and then re-upping it,
[4:42:59] my assumption would
be and we'll get it,
[4:43:00] we'll get a definite
answer on that for you.
[4:43:02] My assumption it would
extend at the higher rate.
[4:43:05] So that's just for the
rest of the commissioners.
[4:43:09] That's what I'm most
worried about is harming
[4:43:10] our small businesses with
something that discourages
[4:43:14] people from coming in, having
great lunches and dinners
[4:43:18] and watching a movie
and things like that.
[4:43:20] So, so I see some
of this as I see it,
[4:43:23] County park special rate
wouldn't quite impact
[4:43:25] that as I'm thinking about it.
[4:43:27] So I think there's
some of these that I
[4:43:28] would support today
and others that I
[4:43:30] would defer or ask to defer.
[4:43:34] But I don't procedurally,
on my very first day
[4:43:37] how to go about getting
somebody to help
[4:43:40] me with what I'd like to do.
[4:43:42] I think what concerns me most
is I look at the slide in front
[4:43:45] of me is sunset pricing.
[4:43:49] And I think that is what to
me feels like we're basically
[4:43:53] saying at sunset, we're going to
charge you more, which is to me,
[4:43:56] thinking about our
small businesses.
[4:43:58] We're going to charge more to
come have a nice dinner with us.
[4:44:00] And I'd rather not do that as
our first line of approach.
[4:44:04] And on that, I'll say it's a
relatively small amount on here,
[4:44:08] and it's about 20%
of your parking
[4:44:10] is done during that
time frame just
[4:44:12] to help you on your
decision making,
[4:44:15] Ralph would have to give you
exactly what you'd have to do.
[4:44:17] But my understanding is if you
make a motion with some changes
[4:44:20] to the resolution, that's how
you would either eliminate
[4:44:23] or add parts of the parking.
[4:44:26] And then theoretically, we
could revisit an alternate,
[4:44:29] maybe duration based dynamic
piece as a future resolution.
[4:44:34] Certainly we could bring the
data back to what we talked
[4:44:37] about today as the staff is
presenting you an option where
[4:44:40] maybe it's the current rate for
two hours and then it escalates
[4:44:44] by maybe give you some
examples $0.50, $1,
[4:44:47] $1.50 for those hours after.
[4:44:49] It's the goal we're shooting
for to bring back to you
[4:44:51] at some point.
[4:44:52] Perfect OK.
[4:44:53] We just make a motion
about and this time,
[4:44:56] let's expressly state our
motion exactly which one
[4:45:00] of these you want to include.
[4:45:03] Or can I say as
is excluding one.
[4:45:05] You can do it that way too.
[4:45:06] All right.
[4:45:08] I don't know if I should
be making this motion.
[4:45:09] I'm happy to make it.
[4:45:10] You're allowed to make.
[4:45:11] I think there might
be other people
[4:45:12] that want to say something.
[4:45:13] Oh, sorry.
[4:45:13] I'm sorry I didn't see you
making a comment, I apologize.
[4:45:16] That's OK.
[4:45:16] I was just going to agree
with what you're saying.
[4:45:18] I think it's great.
[4:45:20] And I think the motion could be
to include the duration factor.
[4:45:30] I'm not sure that we don't.
[4:45:31] I don't think we
know enough about it.
[4:45:33] We don't know enough for
you to give me any direction
[4:45:36] because we actually need rates.
[4:45:39] The good thing
about resolution is
[4:45:40] it just takes one
reading as opposed
[4:45:42] to an ordinance which takes two.
[4:45:43] So you could change these every.
[4:45:44] We're suggesting we
bring you back data.
[4:45:47] Yeah OK.
[4:45:47] And then we could give you
a suggested resolution.
[4:45:50] Yeah to be clear, what
I'm saying is I'm.
[4:45:52] I'm suggesting.
[4:45:55] Approving this minus in my
least from my perspective,
[4:45:59] sunset pricing.
[4:46:00] And then we would ask city
staff to come back to us
[4:46:03] 30 days, if that's
what's appropriate,
[4:46:06] and give us an assessment
of what duration based.
[4:46:11] Parking rates would
be in this situation
[4:46:14] and some or all of this may be
up for discussion in 30 days.
[4:46:19] But at least get the
initial data back to us.
[4:46:21] We understand it.
[4:46:23] And then we make a
decision from there.
[4:46:25] That's just my perspective.
[4:46:28] I like it.
[4:46:29] I'm sorry, MS Robinson.
[4:46:30] Commissioner Robinson, sorry,
we weren't talking about Corey
[4:46:33] having paid parking.
[4:46:34] Corey no, no changes to FYI,
we're not talking no changes
[4:46:38] to most of the restaurants are.
[4:46:40] Yeah so when we talk about
the restaurants we're talking
[4:46:43] or paid parking, we're
talking the beach,
[4:46:46] primarily the beaches.
[4:46:47] So that's a long that's a long
walk to some of the restaurants.
[4:46:52] Just saying.
[4:46:53] For that, I still like
getting the feedback
[4:47:00] if we're going to give up
the sunset parking scenario,
[4:47:03] what was the rate on that.
[4:47:04] Do you remember because it
raised it would raise it by $1.
[4:47:07] So again, none of them are
dependent on each other.
[4:47:09] So whatever rate you said,
it would be $1 extra.
[4:47:12] No, the no.
[4:47:13] The credit card
credit card service.
[4:47:16] So again, because there's 2
because there's two companies.
[4:47:18] So one of them is we had
that number in the last time.
[4:47:22] Yeah I said 3% The problem is
the more we dive into the data.
[4:47:26] So one of them is
$0.15 per transaction
[4:47:30] plus 3% The other one didn't
look like it charged a credit
[4:47:34] card, but they sent it to a
bank, which does charge us
[4:47:36] and it's anywhere from 4%
to 5% So it's not the same.
[4:47:39] It's not the same
depending on what app.
[4:47:41] But did didn't you say the
same company bought both.
[4:47:45] They did, but they we're told.
[4:47:48] So we talked to
them again today.
[4:47:51] Our understanding
is it should be
[4:47:53] operating as potentially
operating as one platform
[4:47:56] as early as March.
[4:47:57] But we don't know
that for a fact.
[4:47:58] So right now it's
still kind of operating
[4:48:00] as two separate entities.
[4:48:02] So that's why there's some
differences between the two.
[4:48:04] There's differences
when we try to pull data
[4:48:06] there's differences and rates.
[4:48:08] Like, for example, whatever,
you all approve tonight,
[4:48:11] we'll have to go to
both of those companies
[4:48:13] to implement them.
[4:48:14] And based on my experience
of doing this two years ago,
[4:48:18] no one did it immediately.
[4:48:19] The other one took quite a long
time before it implemented it.
[4:48:21] So conceivably if
you used one app,
[4:48:23] you'd be paying less than
if you used the other.
[4:48:25] So we're hoping all that will
get worked out once they're
[4:48:28] serving under one brand in one
app, works in certain areas
[4:48:32] and other one works in both of
them work in all of our areas.
[4:48:35] We're working.
[4:48:35] Oh, I did not realize that one.
[4:48:37] And that's pretty standard.
[4:48:38] If you go to the
beach communities,
[4:48:39] you'll see both of those
vendors on those signs.
[4:48:42] So it's pretty common.
[4:48:45] OK I'll make a motion.
[4:48:50] No I have a public comment.
[4:48:51] Sorry public comment.
[4:48:52] Yeah sorry.
[4:48:53] Jumping ahead Rick Falkenstein.
[4:48:56] 
[4:48:59] Good evening.
[4:49:00] Sorry to prolong this meeting.
[4:49:02] 6507 31 Avenue North.
[4:49:05] Most of my waking
hours is 800 golf way.
[4:49:10] I see the influx of
cars coming and going.
[4:49:15] They get there about 9 o'clock.
[4:49:17] Then there's a turnover
of about 1112, 1:00.
[4:49:23] The spaces do turn over.
[4:49:26] My suggestion to you guys
take the commission hat off.
[4:49:31] Put the business hat on.
[4:49:33] Make it 24 hours.
[4:49:36] Charge the meters 24 hours.
[4:49:38] Sunset beaches.
[4:49:39] Got that.
[4:49:39] 24 hours.
[4:49:40] Madeira Beach, o'clock
AM to o'clock PM.
[4:49:44] Indian Rocks, 8:00
AM to 10:00 PM.
[4:49:47] Redington beach,
7:00 AM to 10:00 PM.
[4:49:50] Make hours 24 hours.
[4:49:51] Raise it $1.
[4:49:52] Why make it so complicated.
[4:49:54] When you look at this
lineup, you're going
[4:49:57] to go, what am I going to pay.
[4:49:59] When does it start.
[4:50:00] When does it stop.
[4:50:02] Raise it.
[4:50:04] It's going to be easier for
people coming to our beach.
[4:50:07] Remember, right now, March.
[4:50:09] This March is the hottest
March we've had in a long time.
[4:50:14] Go back to February.
[4:50:15] Look at those meter takes.
[4:50:17] The coldest.
[4:50:18] The coldest month in 20 years.
[4:50:21] We don't want to
alienate the ones
[4:50:24] who come visit us in August.
[4:50:27] September, October, November.
[4:50:30] The people who are
here now are gone.
[4:50:33] But they don't mind
paying the extra dollar
[4:50:36] because they don't realize when
they come off golf Boulevard,
[4:50:40] it's city streets.
[4:50:41] When you go past,
the dances are it's
[4:50:43] city streets, the trash that's
being picked up on the beach.
[4:50:48] That money goes
towards that trash,
[4:50:50] the security on the beach.
[4:50:51] We have to educate.
[4:50:52] We have to do a PR session.
[4:50:54] So these guys back here know
where the money is going.
[4:50:57] It's not just
going into the city
[4:50:59] and they're going to go
spend it everywhere else,
[4:51:02] it's going to rebuild the
streets that the city owns.
[4:51:05] Gulf Boulevard is
a State Street.
[4:51:08] It's not a residential street.
[4:51:11] So we have to let
the people know.
[4:51:13] And some of the guests
that come to where I work,
[4:51:17] I asked them the last couple
of days, what do you think.
[4:51:21] It's all over the place, man.
[4:51:22] It's all over the place.
[4:51:24] Raise it $1.
[4:51:25] Go 24 hours.
[4:51:26] They know what
they're going to pay
[4:51:28] and they know when
they come out here,
[4:51:29] it's 24 hours,
seven days a week.
[4:51:32] And do your holiday gig.
[4:51:35] That's good.
[4:51:36] It's going to work.
[4:51:37] I think that'll work.
[4:51:38] They'll understand.
[4:51:39] Holidays raise it
$1 and goes 24/7.
[4:51:45] Thank you.
[4:51:46] Yes, sir.
[4:51:47] I like the KISS method.
[4:51:48] 
[4:51:51] There are no more
public comments.
[4:51:53] OK, now I'll make a motion.
[4:51:55] I'll make a motion that we
adopt resolution 2020 7,
[4:52:01] establishing and amending
the public parking fees to.
[4:52:05] And now that thing
just went away.
[4:52:06] That was in front
of me to include
[4:52:09] to include all of the
staff recommendations
[4:52:12] except for the sunset pricing.
[4:52:15] Is that clear enough, Ralph.
[4:52:16] Yes OK.
[4:52:19] Second just a second.
[4:52:22] Just a capital problem.
[4:52:24] 
[4:52:33] Commissioner Robinson.
[4:52:34] No commissioner.
[4:52:37] Coursey yes, Commissioner.
[4:52:39] Maldonado yes, Mayor.
[4:52:41] Tate yes.
[4:52:42] Vice mayor.
[4:52:43] Marriott yes.
[4:52:44] The motion carries.
[4:52:45] 
[4:52:55] I think that's the end
of our action items.
[4:52:57] Keep me honest
here, Renee, please.
[4:52:59] Yes now we're on to
items for discussion.
[4:53:01] Thank you.
[4:53:02] And I think we've
moved an item there.
[4:53:05] I don't know if we can
cover it in 10 minutes,
[4:53:07] but I think we'd move the
wireless discussion there.
[4:53:10] We'll give it a shot.
[4:53:11] So ordinance 202603
communications and small
[4:53:16] wireless facilities
design standards.
[4:53:19] As you saw, there's
lots of interest.
[4:53:20] And certainly we've all
received lots of emails
[4:53:25] from constituents.
[4:53:27] And I will tell you that
my position is very clear
[4:53:31] and has been from
the very beginning
[4:53:32] that I did intend to use the
word mandatory versus encourage.
[4:53:38] That should be
absolutely clear to me.
[4:53:41] It may have been
misinterpreted by some
[4:53:42] of my fellow commissioners.
[4:53:44] We're beyond that.
[4:53:45] So as a result of that, I did
seek legal counsel and opinions
[4:53:52] from Becky Blass, the senior
partner at the law firm
[4:53:57] who provided me with
an expert legal opinion
[4:54:01] and that opinion you
all should have seen.
[4:54:05] And that opinion
really just gave
[4:54:07] me the ability to
confirm that this
[4:54:10] was not a scrivener's error.
[4:54:12] It's not a scrivener's
error because you
[4:54:14] can't interpret intent.
[4:54:15] I know some people wanted me to
spray a pixel dust or something
[4:54:20] and explain what's
not on the paper,
[4:54:22] so that's why it was important
to clarify what's on there.
[4:54:25] So my belief, and
Ralph will have
[4:54:29] to guide us through this here,
is that we have two options.
[4:54:32] So we can as a commission,
as a current commission,
[4:54:37] repeal the ordinance
that was recently passed
[4:54:43] and start the process over.
[4:54:46] Or we can leave it as it stands.
[4:54:49] But this is something for
this commission to decide
[4:54:51] how they want to move forward.
[4:54:52] And that's where we are.
[4:54:56] So not an easy thing
that we wanted to get to.
[4:54:58] It's a year and a half of work,
but this is the current reality
[4:55:01] of what I believe is true.
[4:55:03] Ralph, do you agree that
that's the only two things
[4:55:05] that we can do at this point.
[4:55:07] Well, you can repeal or you can
amend or you can leave it as is.
[4:55:10] So you could conceivably amend
what you've already adopted.
[4:55:13] 
[4:55:18] But that would mean
mandatory is probably
[4:55:20] going to be run up against
the state preemption
[4:55:24] and expose the city to
liability for attorneys' fees.
[4:55:27] What would an
Amendment look like.
[4:55:30] Well, that would have
to come from you guys.
[4:55:32] It's a policy
matter, but would it
[4:55:34] take the first reading,
second reading,
[4:55:36] second reading, same thing.
[4:55:37] That's the part that I
want to make very clear,
[4:55:40] so that there is no
further miscommunication,
[4:55:42] intentional or otherwise,
that it would require us
[4:55:46] to go back to a first reading.
[4:55:49] Correct yep.
[4:55:50] First reading and second
reading, and also for repealing
[4:55:53] takes two readings to
repeal an ordinance.
[4:55:58] OK, so I guess my
question to the commission
[4:56:00] is that something that
we want to entertain.
[4:56:04] I have another question.
[4:56:06] So what we did sign off on
did have to go up to the AG.
[4:56:10] Correct yes.
[4:56:11] And they have 30
days to respond.
[4:56:16] Is that correct.
[4:56:17] The ordinance does not become
effective until 30 days expires.
[4:56:22] From the time it gets
to the attorney general
[4:56:25] during the pendency
of that ordinance.
[4:56:29] And today, the
legislature also enhanced
[4:56:32] the preemptions on
local governments
[4:56:35] for small cell wireless.
[4:56:37] I can pass this out.
[4:56:38] It kind of describes.
[4:56:40] I got to lock in up there.
[4:56:43] So it's getting
worse, not better.
[4:56:44] In Tallahassee there's less.
[4:56:46] Even less you could do now.
[4:56:47] 
[4:56:52] So that's Senate Bill 488.
[4:56:55] Yeah it hasn't been signed
by the governor yet.
[4:56:59] So maybe if the
governor signs it,
[4:57:01] we may want to revisit
the ordinance anyway.
[4:57:04] But not too much
in here affects us.
[4:57:06] It does state that you can't
limit the number of small cell
[4:57:11] wireless facilities.
[4:57:12] You have to require
only one construction
[4:57:15] bond for all their equipment.
[4:57:18] You can't have a
different bond for each.
[4:57:20] Equipment has some insurance
requirements that prohibits
[4:57:23] landscaping requirements.
[4:57:25] 
[4:57:31] We have a 90 page
ordinance we adopted first,
[4:57:33] and then we had
this three pager.
[4:57:35] And because the citizens
also wanted these setbacks
[4:57:38] and the separation distance.
[4:57:40] And so we had a staff
had an ordinance drafted
[4:57:46] and I didn't insert
the word encourage.
[4:57:49] Encourage was in the draft
that has been presented
[4:57:52] is exhibit A was already there.
[4:57:54] It wasn't something
that was discussed,
[4:57:56] but it was already there.
[4:57:57] Again, you probably cannot
mandate it even though
[4:58:01] you want to do mandatory.
[4:58:03] It's probably a violation
of the state law preemption.
[4:58:06] That's what spectrum has
said and what AT&T has said.
[4:58:10] And it looks to be what the
statute says pretty clear.
[4:58:15] I think the counsel
for the citizens
[4:58:17] was arguing there's too many
commas in the minimum separation
[4:58:21] distance.
[4:58:22] And that grammatical error
knocks out the state preemption.
[4:58:27] But I don't believe that would
be the case if a judge read it.
[4:58:30] I think that would
just apply clear, plain
[4:58:33] interpretation to what they
think the sentence said.
[4:58:39] But happy to keep
working on this.
[4:58:40] If this is something
you want to do.
[4:58:41] The other thing we need
to do is to have a request
[4:58:45] for qualifications to have
consultant help us implement
[4:58:49] the 90 page ordinance,
because it is very technical
[4:58:53] and we need outside
technical expertise
[4:58:56] to be able to review the
applications that will be coming
[4:58:59] in the future that require
commission approval to it'll
[4:59:05] be coming back to you for that.
[4:59:07] Yeah you're going to
have to hire someone
[4:59:08] to review these things,
and we can't charge for it
[4:59:12] under the preemption
question for you,
[4:59:15] Ralph, please, I'm
reading I'm reading
[4:59:18] at least the motion as was
kind of distributed earlier.
[4:59:21] I don't see the word in
court or mandatory sitting
[4:59:23] in here at all.
[4:59:24] And so what does it
mean to us if we strike
[4:59:27] either word or both words.
[4:59:28] To be Frank with you, neither
word shows up in there.
[4:59:31] Well, when you
have an ordinance,
[4:59:36] the way we do ordinance is
we have a cover ordinance,
[4:59:38] and then we have an exhibit A,
and the exhibit A is attached,
[4:59:42] just like the parking schedule
was exhibit A, so in the exhibit
[4:59:46] A, that was the staff proposal.
[4:59:48] It did say the city shall
encourage because we felt
[4:59:51] as staff, Brandon and
myself, that this is
[4:59:53] as far as we could go
and still stay legal
[4:59:55] under the state preemption.
[4:59:57] The citizens presented
an alternative language
[5:00:00] that mandated it.
[5:00:02] We don't feel comfortable
giving the advice that that's
[5:00:05] something that you can do.
[5:00:07] I can't tell you not to.
[5:00:08] I'm just saying it would
be very difficult to find,
[5:00:10] and we might lose
attorney's fees.
[5:00:12] Understood I'm
literally reading the.
[5:00:17] I guess it's the I can pass out
the closed caption notes here.
[5:00:21] I want to make
sure that because.
[5:00:23] Because neither word is frankly
in what I'm reading right here.
[5:00:25] Unless I want to pass out
the ordinance because it
[5:00:27] will be in there.
[5:00:28] Back to the AG thing.
[5:00:30] So what are we waiting for the
AG to say the AG and its fine
[5:00:37] and/or they reviewed it
and we are in violation.
[5:00:42] What are we waiting
from the AG for.
[5:00:44] So they publish it.
[5:00:45] And that gives interested
parties a chance to review it,
[5:00:49] and a chance to file a
declaratory injunctive relief
[5:00:52] under the statute
if they think it's
[5:00:53] in violation of the preemption.
[5:00:55] So it's being reviewed right
now by AT&T legal counsel,
[5:00:59] and it's being reviewed
at presumably the spectrum
[5:01:03] and presumably at the
attorney general's office.
[5:01:06] So we may hear from one
or all of those parties.
[5:01:10] I think right now with the word
encourage in there, we're fine.
[5:01:13] The spectrum wrote us a letter
that said the staff version they
[5:01:17] did not object to but they
thought that the citizen version
[5:01:20] violated the state preemption.
[5:01:21] And we distributed that
letter at the last meeting.
[5:01:25] 
[5:01:41] It doesn't look like
the legislature is
[5:01:43] interested in weakening
the preemptions,
[5:01:47] when in fact they're
strengthening them.
[5:01:49] This past session,
it was approved
[5:01:51] Friday and was sent to the
governor, but not signed yet.
[5:01:55] 
[5:02:03] I wanted to understand what
would be the basis of repealing.
[5:02:09] Technically, legally
speaking, can we discuss that.
[5:02:13] You can resend an
ordinance at any time.
[5:02:15] You have the legislative
capacity to adopt ordinances
[5:02:18] and to repeal ordinances
or to amend ordinances.
[5:02:22] So it's within one of your
three legislative choices.
[5:02:24] And what about the
logical basis of it.
[5:02:27] What of.
[5:02:29] Well, we had a 90
page ordinance that
[5:02:30] was adopted two weeks earlier
that all the parties agreed
[5:02:34] was not preempted and
they could live with
[5:02:38] and the citizens
were upset that it
[5:02:40] didn't contain the
minimum separation
[5:02:41] distance and the setback.
[5:02:43] So that's why we separated
the two ordinances,
[5:02:46] and they came forward
at two different times.
[5:02:48] So we first approved
the 90 page ordinance.
[5:02:50] There was a motion.
[5:02:51] Second, and I think
everybody agreed
[5:02:53] to bring the controversial
two items back again,
[5:02:57] which then came back as
the second ordinance.
[5:03:00] 
[5:03:03] And as far as the
vote on that went.
[5:03:07] 
[5:03:09] Can you, Commissioner Maldonado,
could you elaborate what
[5:03:15] you're thinking about.
[5:03:16] I mean, is it because people
didn't realize what they
[5:03:20] were voting for, or did they.
[5:03:23] What are your thoughts.
[5:03:24] So do you mean then or now.
[5:03:25] In the present then.
[5:03:27] Then yeah.
[5:03:28] Yeah no.
[5:03:28] So I mean, obviously my argument
was based on the briefing
[5:03:32] by attorney Scott McCullough,
who used the citizens language
[5:03:36] in a very strong
mandatory that was
[5:03:39] an hour prior at
the very beginning
[5:03:41] of the commission meeting.
[5:03:43] And then there were subsequent
events that took place
[5:03:46] to include a question
from Commissioner
[5:03:48] Marriott to the attorney.
[5:03:52] And that I think is at least
my interpretation of what could
[5:03:57] have gone wrong is when there
was a response to the question,
[5:04:00] do you remember what
the question was.
[5:04:01] Commissioner Marriott.
[5:04:03] I think my statement was if
we use the word encourage,
[5:04:09] I might be able to
be on board with it.
[5:04:11] But if it's mandatory, I'm not.
[5:04:14] However, I think my position has
been misconstrued several times
[5:04:18] because I wasn't going to vote
for it based on the 500 foot
[5:04:21] separation distance,
which I also believe is
[5:04:24] not allowed by state statute.
[5:04:25] Can we take a pause.
[5:04:26] I think we need to
extend just again.
[5:04:28] Yeah must we go a half hour.
[5:04:31] Can we try and do
it in 15 minutes.
[5:04:33] No, that's what I'm asking.
[5:04:34] Yeah half hour, just to be sure.
[5:04:36] But somebody make a motion.
[5:04:37] Make a motion to extend
our meeting till 11:15.
[5:04:42] Second who's got
the second on that.
[5:04:46] OK OK.
[5:04:50] Commissioner Causey.
[5:04:52] Yes commissioner.
[5:04:53] Maldonado yes.
[5:04:54] Mayor Tate.
[5:04:55] Yes vice mayor.
[5:04:56] Marriott yes.
[5:04:57] Commissioner Robinson
Yes Motion carries.
[5:05:00] So I voted no against
the ordinance.
[5:05:04] Also, based on the fact
that there was the 500 foot
[5:05:06] separation minimum
separation distance,
[5:05:08] which I also believe to be
contrary to state statute.
[5:05:13] So I wasn't going to
vote for that motion,
[5:05:15] whether it said
encouraged or mandatory
[5:05:18] on the 40 foot setbacks.
[5:05:20] So I don't think that
helps anybody but.
[5:05:22] 
[5:05:29] Well, I can just say I'll just
say I've said it since day one.
[5:05:33] I'm all for the health, safety,
and welfare of the residents
[5:05:36] in this community.
[5:05:37] I feel that there needs
to be some sort of safety
[5:05:41] zone for a fall zone
on any of these poles,
[5:05:44] towers, whatever you
want to call them.
[5:05:47] It wasn't just but a few years
ago when the scheme of cell
[5:05:52] phones that we learned, oh,
maybe we shouldn't hold it
[5:05:55] against our head all day long.
[5:05:57] So we don't know what the
health risks are for something
[5:06:01] that's going to be
transmitting 24/7,
[5:06:05] whether you want it to or
not, immediately next to you,
[5:06:08] within 30, 40.
[5:06:11] I'm agree with the residents.
[5:06:15] I am willing to take the
risk of with the mandatory
[5:06:20] and see where that falls.
[5:06:25] So I was for the mandatory for
the citizens language as well.
[5:06:33] 
[5:06:38] So with that said,
I mean, my question
[5:06:40] is, are we in an urgency
on this right this second.
[5:06:44] Do we want to see what
encourage plays out to be.
[5:06:48] Because my understanding is
now we can repeal, modify.
[5:06:54] We still have to go through two
readings in regards to this.
[5:06:58] I know it's not what
everybody wants,
[5:07:00] but I think we're at a
point where we can't make
[5:07:02] everybody happy
right now, but we can
[5:07:05] at least make movement on this.
[5:07:08] I think we've got the first
half of this in good shape.
[5:07:11] It's this last two items.
[5:07:14] If we fill this out, see
what comes back in our laps
[5:07:18] and go from there.
[5:07:19] And I will venture to say, I do
believe this is covered on PRM.
[5:07:23] Do I have that correct.
[5:07:24] PRG PR.
[5:07:28] Insurance, all of our cases.
[5:07:31] We have a limit, a
cap that we might hit.
[5:07:34] And that's for the
defense counsel.
[5:07:36] So there will be another
attorney representing us.
[5:07:39] So I'm not corrupt.
[5:07:41] I didn't take any
money from this.
[5:07:43] But there will be another firm
that will have to defend you.
[5:07:46] And our insurance
would not cover
[5:07:50] probably not cover
the attorney's
[5:07:53] fees for the other side.
[5:07:54] That's your biggest danger.
[5:07:57] And it would depend on
how far we go with it.
[5:07:59] So how many hours are
incurred by the other side.
[5:08:03] So if I understand, Commissioner
Robinson, just bring this
[5:08:09] back to where we are right now.
[5:08:10] So you're saying it's a
step in the right direction,
[5:08:12] but you'd like to see
how things play out.
[5:08:16] Basically, I think
we should see what
[5:08:20] we get back from Tallahassee.
[5:08:21] What we get back from the other.
[5:08:23] I mean, we could take this right
now if we want to go forward
[5:08:26] with it and do it again.
[5:08:29] I'm fine with that as well.
[5:08:31] Either way, but I just feel
that we've made some good steps
[5:08:36] and maybe this misstep is worth.
[5:08:41] Seeing how it plays.
[5:08:43] I like that idea.
[5:08:45] I'm not happy about it.
[5:08:46] I think we all messed up.
[5:08:49] I think we weren't very
clear on what we were.
[5:08:58] I certainly agree with
your last statement
[5:09:00] that we can learn from this.
[5:09:02] So we certainly could have
done things a little bit more
[5:09:06] polished.
[5:09:06] I don't think there was any
ill intent on anyone's behalf
[5:09:10] despite accusations
and discontent
[5:09:14] from certain residents, the
word encouraged was used.
[5:09:18] I didn't catch it, and it's
clearly in the transcripts,
[5:09:23] but my position was
clear, and that's
[5:09:24] why I wanted to have this open
and transparent conversation.
[5:09:27] Is that because it was about
intent and not what was stated.
[5:09:32] It's a critical learning point
for this commission moving
[5:09:35] forward, so I'm fine with that.
[5:09:37] Exhibit A just to point out,
I forgot to close that loop.
[5:09:40] But in exhibit A that's
attached to the ordinance,
[5:09:42] it does say registrants
are encouraged
[5:09:44] to meet a setback of at
least it was 30 feet,
[5:09:47] and we changed it
to at least 40.
[5:09:49] Then the second part, it said
the city shall encourage.
[5:09:56] And then it had one, 2, and 3.
[5:09:58] And we added number four.
[5:10:01] So the words appeared
in the exhibit
[5:10:03] that was presented to you.
[5:10:05] It certainly was.
[5:10:06] It is.
[5:10:06] I think there's some
misunderstanding.
[5:10:08] The city strongly
encourages was the wording
[5:10:11] from other interpretations
that things were being made up
[5:10:17] up here or whatever, but we're
following what staff had put out
[5:10:22] and the modifications
were to staff.
[5:10:25] And unfortunately,
like I said, staff
[5:10:29] was trying to I think the words
we used were thread the needle
[5:10:32] to try to make something
that was defensible
[5:10:34] and wouldn't violate
the preemption.
[5:10:36] Correct just for information
for the new commissioners
[5:10:41] and the existing ones,
Florida Home rule
[5:10:43] allows us to do
anything as long as it's
[5:10:47] not unconstitutional and not in
conflict with the state statute.
[5:10:51] So if a state statute
says we can't do it,
[5:10:53] that takes away our home
rule ability to act.
[5:10:56] 
[5:10:59] OK over to the chair.
[5:11:03] I will tell you that just
comments real quick on that.
[5:11:09] I mean, I think it puts
both Mr. Causey and myself
[5:11:13] in an odd situation to try
and figure out what was
[5:11:15] intended before we took office.
[5:11:17] So, I don't know if
we have on record,
[5:11:23] the prior mayor and the
prior commissioner's intent
[5:11:27] formally on record.
[5:11:28] That may help with this,
but be that as it may,
[5:11:32] I think this is an
item for discussion.
[5:11:33] Do we have any action
item we need to do
[5:11:35] out of this or just discussion.
[5:11:36] All right.
[5:11:38] So just in the
interest of time, I
[5:11:39] think we've got
about seven minutes
[5:11:41] based on what we last we said.
[5:11:43] So I'm sorry.
[5:11:44] So do we have a
consensus that we're
[5:11:46] going to keep the ordinance
as is and not keep it as it
[5:11:50] is and see how it plays out.
[5:11:52] For now, we can give
it a time frame.
[5:11:54] If we want to be
absolutely clear.
[5:11:56] Yes do we want to
give it a time.
[5:11:57] Do we want to give
it a time frame.
[5:11:59] What is.
[5:12:00] You can initiate it
at any time you want.
[5:12:02] So if we come back
next week, you
[5:12:03] want to do something, or the
week after or next month.
[5:12:06] What's the AG's usual 30 days.
[5:12:08] You said from receipt.
[5:12:09] Yeah that's when it
will become effective.
[5:12:11] So it's not even effective
to wait for that.
[5:12:13] It feels silly to
do it next time.
[5:12:15] Yeah Wait, wait.
[5:12:16] The time frame.
[5:12:16] So thank you, John.
[5:12:18] Thank you.
[5:12:18] Thank you.
[5:12:19] All right.
[5:12:20] All right.
[5:12:22] Let's see.
[5:12:23] City clerk.
[5:12:24] Any reports, please.
[5:12:26] Yes so following the
election of Mayor Tate,
[5:12:29] he was required to
resign from his position
[5:12:31] on the police pension board.
[5:12:32] As a result, a vacancy
now exists for that seat.
[5:12:35] The city clerk's office
is accepting applications,
[5:12:37] and the applicants must be
residents of ST Pete Beach.
[5:12:40] Additionally, there have been
some recent board and committee
[5:12:42] membership changes.
[5:12:44] Rich lorenzon is no longer
serving on the planning board.
[5:12:46] Mark kanich has transitioned
from the finance and budget
[5:12:48] review committee to
the planning board,
[5:12:50] and Kathy English has returned
to serve on the finance
[5:12:52] and budget review committee.
[5:12:56] OK thank you.
[5:12:59] City manager, any reports.
[5:13:00] Nothing to report.
[5:13:02] City attorney.
[5:13:03] I'll give you a legislative
update at your next meeting.
[5:13:06] Sounds good.
[5:13:07] Thank you.
[5:13:09] Commissioner reports.
[5:13:10] I'll start with Mr.
Mr. Maldonado, please.
[5:13:13] Thank you.
[5:13:14] Chair So again, thank you to
the city manager for attending
[5:13:16] the community meeting that
we had over at the Warren
[5:13:19] Webster building.
[5:13:20] Well attended, close to 50
people, some great conversations
[5:13:24] and things to work on.
[5:13:26] Again, welcome to our new mayor,
new commissioner, and sincere
[5:13:31] thank you to our outgoing
mayor and Commissioner
[5:13:33] for all their hard
work for the community.
[5:13:35] So that's all I've got.
[5:13:36] Thank you.
[5:13:38] Thank you, Commissioner coursey.
[5:13:40] I would just like to highlight
that we parking is in focus
[5:13:45] right now, and I've already
spoken with our staff about
[5:13:50] parking, and I know they're
working on it and specifically
[5:13:54] want to move into the short
queue now 46th Street,
[5:14:00] after we've looked at some.
[5:14:02] That's 46th Avenue.
[5:14:03] 
[5:14:07] OK thank you,
Commissioner Robinson.
[5:14:10] I'm looking at I
just want to let
[5:14:12] everybody know I'll be able
to make an announcement
[5:14:14] at the next meeting.
[5:14:16] Re-establishing my
library hours for meeting.
[5:14:22] Thank you,
Commissioner Marriott.
[5:14:24] Yes thank you.
[5:14:25] Welcome to our new
mayor and Commissioner
[5:14:27] from district three.
[5:14:28] And I want to let
everyone know I'm
[5:14:31] going to have a beer with
Commissioner event on Tuesday,
[5:14:33] March 31.
[5:14:34] A week from tonight
at mastery's brewing.
[5:14:37] Beer drinking is not
mandatory, but I'll have one.
[5:14:41] And I also want to thank
the folks at Corry Avenue
[5:14:45] and the Corry Avenue
business association
[5:14:47] for putting on an awesome ST
Patrick's Day celebration.
[5:14:51] It was really great to see all
the people having a great time.
[5:14:54] And don't forget the Concert
in the Park this Friday.
[5:14:58] Yeah thank you.
[5:14:59] I think we wrap up
with my comments.
[5:15:02] I echo the city
events that we've
[5:15:05] been doing concert in the
parks, the ST Patrick's Day,
[5:15:08] lots of smiling faces.
[5:15:10] Really, really good to see.
[5:15:12] I know I'm bending our
city manager's ear a lot
[5:15:15] over the next.
[5:15:16] Over the past few weeks and
the weeks going forward,
[5:15:18] and I appreciate all of
the city staff and folks
[5:15:22] for obliging me for my many
questions coming so far.
[5:15:26] So thank you very much.
[5:15:28] With that, I think
we're ready to adjourn.
[5:15:33] All right under the wire.
[5:15:35] This commission
meeting is adjourned.
[5:15:38] Thank you.
[5:15:40]