[0:00] All right.
>> Good afternoon everyone. We are here at
[0:03] the meeting of the water utility board
of Star Valley Ranch
[0:07] and uh call the meeting to order. We
need to establish a quorum of members.
[0:14] Uh myself, Steve Pandle, Lee Hansen, a
member is with us via Zoom. Frank Young
[0:22] will not be with us today. Boyd sitaway
is here as a member and Daniel Stewart
[0:28] will not be in attendance today. Um that
makes three out of five members which I
[0:34] believe still constitutes a quorum.
>> Just a casual statement.
[0:40] » Mhm. We probably ought to change our
ordinance
[0:45] and just say that if a member is if a
voting member is absent and we have a um
[0:52] who are you
>> advisory member they can vote
[0:57] that would make it easier to two things
one to have a better vote and secondly
[1:03] it would have help you in making sure we
always can hold a meeting.
[1:07] » Yeah.
Mayor, you got any thoughts on that?
[1:11] Would you be opposed to that?
>> Um,
[1:14] I don't think I'm opposed to it. I think
what I would wanted to go look at the
[1:18] ordinance. Does it say you can have an
alternate member?
[1:22] » You can have advisory members,
>> right? But do they count towards the
[1:27] quorum?
>> Some of the Yeah, some of the boards
[1:29] have alternate members and advisory
members. So,
[1:33] » I I'll read theirs and bring a
>> I was going to say if you want to
[1:36] propose some updates to the ordinance
that you can put the language in and
[1:40] send it to me and then I'll
>> I'll bring it next time if you'd like
[1:43] and I'll use their others if it does
what we want to do. Would you be willing
[1:47] to do that? That's fine. I mean, you
have enough noise. You ought to be able
[1:50] to vote.
>> I think they added your name to the
[1:54] website. So,
>> uh oh dangerous.
[1:58] » It's all over but the shouting now. Did
you get arrows pointing to it? Don't put
[2:04] my address.
>> This is where you can find Advisor
[2:08] Roberts.
>> Um, our advisor. Our
[2:11] » advisor.
We should at least make We should at
[2:15] least make Dave an alternate member. So,
so, uh, he could be a voted member if
[2:21] there's one missing.
>> If not, make him a full-time member.
[2:26] And those that don't seem to be able to
make it, maybe we change them.
[2:34] Anyway, our advisor Dave Roberts is here
and our council liaison is Mayor Rock
[2:40] who is here. Um,
we have a motion to approve the agenda.
[2:47] » So move a second.
>> It's been moved and seconded that we
[2:52] approve the me the agenda. All in favor?
>> I
[2:57] » I
>> Okay, agenda is approved.
[3:01] Um,
we had a last minute request for change
[3:06] in the minutes of the January 20th
meeting. Um, I will I sent it out as an
[3:13] email about uh 3:00, so I don't know how
many people have uh read it, but I will
[3:19] read you the language that was added to
the minutes. It's under uh Zach's
[3:25] presentation from public works and uh
some of the um where he explained that
[3:32] the green canyon tank is a holding tank
and does not supply water for
[3:36] distribution. All distribution comes
from the prader tanks. And this was the
[3:42] language that was requested to be added
here. It's it's detail on on what Zach
[3:47] said. Uh this was new information for
board members. The water master plan
[3:53] shows the green canyon tank distribution
map. Voit Sidway commented on the
[3:57] electrical expense of pumping all
distribution water up to the prader
[4:01] tanks and the added wear on the transfer
pumps. Zach did not know why or how long
[4:06] the system had been operated in this
manner and it was this way since his
[4:09] arrival.
[4:13] » Does that sound okay, Lee?
>> That sounds good. I can add at this
[4:19] point that I've spoken with Terry Wilson
and Boyd can fill you all in if you
[4:24] you're not sure what Terry's credentials
are, but he confirmed with me that that
[4:32] absolutely they put in a pipeline along
Muddy Stream so that Green Canyon could
[4:39] supply a major portion of the town and
not to pump everything up to prayer. So,
[4:47] uh, whatever we're doing now is a change
from from the way that it, uh, was, uh,
[4:54] when when the town was established with
our water system.
[4:59] » It's also a change from the master plan,
>> you know, cuz it, uh, it shows Green
[5:05] Canyon as a distribution center.
>> Yeah.
[5:08] » 75 also shows that pipeline along.
>> Yeah.
[5:14] » 74. which is an important
>> P. You have some information, mayor.
[5:18] » Yes, I I mean just got today. Um I
haven't had a chance to digest it yet.
[5:22] Um but what I'll do after the meeting, I
will forward this information out to the
[5:27] board, so I'm not sure that that's
entirely accurate that everything's
[5:31] being pumped up to Prager.
>> Um
[5:34] » and Zach's not here to defend himself.
>> No. And I'm not and I should know more
[5:39] about the way the water system works.
And that was I will say that was my
[5:44] first meeting. So, I was not going to um
contradict anyone.
[5:48] » Mayor, just if you just think back, of
course, you can't, but we can. If we
[5:52] just think back some of the discussions
we've had with the water people when
[5:56] they've been here, uh it did not
surprise me.
[6:00] It surprised me that it was said in a
meeting, but it didn't surprise me
[6:04] because if you think about what they
were doing, they were running those
[6:07] pumps and those wells consistently even
when we had ample supply coming out of
[6:14] the spring. So, it just makes sense the
way the operation was that they they
[6:19] probably had been doing it since, you
know, the last five, six, seven years.
[6:24] » So, one of the things, and it's a long
email, so I'm not not going to read it.
[6:27] Like I said, I haven't digested the
whole thing, but this is from Ryan
[6:30] Welling. He said, "The prader spring
just does not have the capacity to keep
[6:33] the crater tanks full in most demand
scenarios,
[6:37] » right?
>> So, there is pumping that happens to
[6:41] » send water there." Um,
>> but that's summertime. That's when
[6:44] that's
>> and he also provided a
[6:48] little map.
>> Yeah, I think we understood that before.
[6:51] So, I will for this out and maybe it
will
[6:55] » clarify or reaffirm what Zach had to
say. I went through I went through that
[6:59] map years ago
>> and took each lot that had a house on it
[7:06] and put it in that map's format so we
could tell how many houses were being
[7:12] serviced by Prader and how many were
being serviced by green and it was about
[7:17] a 70 something 25 something split
meaning 25 out of prader and if you're
[7:25] doing if you're supplying out of prayer
Granted, in high high demand, summer's
[7:31] hot day, um, everybody watering, it
cannot keep up. But in the winter time,
[7:38] we just proved it. We just took the the
tank down for how many weeks? Three
[7:44] weeks, four weeks,
>> month.
[7:45] » A month.
>> And guess how what did you do?
[7:49] » You turned the spring on.
So, I mean, it's it's frustrating to
[7:55] hear that our operations are that that
screwed up, but you can understand why
[8:02] we have we our oldest person is what two
years on the job
[8:06] or less. I don't know. I don't know how
when we've hired those other two people,
[8:11] but it's it's the what do you call it?
Institutional knowledge is is has a
[8:17] two-year max.
>> Yeah. I I I would refrain from using
[8:21] terminology such as screwed up from
referring to the talent personnel just
[8:25] because if they do watch these meetings
>> yeah understand I will I will change the
[8:30] word really messed up
>> institutional knowledge yes there's
[8:34] definitely been a
>> but it's not the guy's fault that are
[8:37] here that's the problem
>> there's been the the transition or lack
[8:40] thereof of institution
there's just not there's not a process
[8:46] » for a new person to come on and learn
other for them to go around with me and
[8:50] if I don't know I'm telling him what he
shouldn't be hearing. So the formal
[8:55] process would be really
superb to have.
[9:00] » Well, I think we all understood that
some water was being pumped up there out
[9:04] of necessity, but this was the first
time we heard that all water was being
[9:08] pumped up there for distribution. And
that just doesn't make economic sense.
[9:13] » Well, the only thing that blew me is
when he said, "We've always done it that
[9:16] way." I I just couldn't believe what was
that.
[9:19] » He might have met since he's been here,
too.
[9:22] » Sure.
>> Yeah. Zach's been here.
[9:24] » Yeah.
>> Four years.
[9:27] » Four now. Almost four.
>> Almost four. So
[9:30] » So isn't Ryan here every Thursday?
>> Um if he is here every Thursday, he was
[9:36] not here today.
>> Okay. So
[9:38] » there might be a question for him to try
to resolve how that started and if we
[9:45] need to correct it, how we correct it.
>> And and one thing, mayor, we shouldn't
[9:49] do.
We should not get into operations.
[9:53] But when we find out about these things,
we need to bring it to somebody's
[9:58] attention who knows enough to in order
to fix it. And when we get right down to
[10:05] it, because of our lack of institutional
knowledge, we have one person on our
[10:09] payroll, and that's our our engineer.
And I don't know that he gets involved
[10:14] in the operations either. But we just
can't take new people and say go do it
[10:21] anymore. We've got to tell him what go
do it really means.
[10:25] » Is Ryan a local?
>> Ryan's out of Edmonton.
[10:30] » Oh. So he comes up once a week once a
week is
[10:33] » Ryan should definitely have known that
that the way we're doing it now is not
[10:39] the way it was established to begin
with. And I don't know why he didn't
[10:44] speak up before.
>> I don't I don't mean to bring up the
[10:47] past, but we used to have a corporate
saying without direction people will
[10:51] make decisions.
And we had cups and everything that had
[10:56] that really trying to impress on people.
Damn it. You're in charge. You make the
[11:01] decision. Right or wrong, make it
because don't leave it up to your people
[11:05] to do it because they'll do it with less
knowledge than you have.
[11:09] » So anyway, I just we'll get there.
>> It's slow, but we'll get there.
[11:13] » Okay. With those additions, do we have a
motion to approve the minutes of the
[11:17] January 20th meeting?
>> So moved.
[11:21] » It's been moved and seconded that we
approve the minutes of held on January
[11:25] 20th, 2026. All in favor? I
>> I
[11:30] » Okay, minutes are approved.
>> Thanks for the Thanks for the addition,
[11:33] by the way, though.
>> I had a whole page on that. So,
[11:40] » well, I don't know why I left it out. I
certainly listened to it,
[11:44] » but uh maybe I thought
>> we didn't pressure.
[11:48] » Maybe I thought it was self-explanatory
that, you know, that was a problem.
[11:53] » Anyway, it was a good addition. Thank
you, Lee.
[11:56] Okay, I wrote the update and questions
with council on water related issues
[12:01] from Mayor Rock. Um,
how are we coming with STA reports? Do
[12:08] we have them available?
[12:11] » I know that they had a SCA meeting the
other day and they're starting to get
[12:16] data. Um, I don't know about the status
of reports that are available yet. So,
[12:22] and
>> this week our town administrator has
[12:25] been out ill ever since Monday. So, um
it's I'm trying not to ping him with
[12:31] things while he's
been trying to recover. So, I apologize
[12:35] that I'm not um probably as
>> when you've been mayor administrator.
[12:40] » I do have some information on at least
one of these items. So, or two of them.
[12:44] » Well, state it is state is up and
running.
[12:46] » Yes, it is up and running.
>> So, that's the good news. So we're we're
[12:50] trying to see where we are with leak
detection, you know, with with
[12:54] » Is there a way for us not to get
reports, but to get the data?
[12:59] » I don't want access to the systems. I
want it to be given to us as data.
[13:03] » Sure.
>> Because we haven't been asked, I don't
[13:07] think we've been asked by anybody what
we want in a report or what we need. and
[13:12] all the reports are being formulated and
it seems like if we're going to be
[13:16] reporting to the council on your
efficiency, we ought to have rights to
[13:20] the, you know, the ability to get in
because as soon as we tell you we want
[13:24] it by the month, we need it by the hour
or the day. And if we give it to us by
[13:28] the day, we don't need that much. We
only need the month.
[13:30] » Well, one thing to be careful of is if
you provide what kind of data you want,
[13:36] they're going to go off and build these
reports. The question is is what is the
[13:39] standard reports that come out of SCADA?
Look at that first before you say,
[13:44] "Well, we need this data."
>> How do we get them?
[13:46] » Well, that's what I'm saying. So, let's
ask for the standard reports and see
[13:49] what you got.
>> See what they have set up. So, because I
[13:51] don't know what set up.
>> I like that idea.
[13:52] » I mean, yeah, I've seen it too, but we
haven't seen them.
[13:56] » No, it just tough to
>> It just started. Then in association
[14:00] with that, you know, we got a letter
from the state engineers office
[14:03] requesting production and usage of the
well that we're trying to Yeah.
[14:08] » bump up from 500 gallons to,000 gallons.
Um,
[14:14] » do we have that information? I mean,
this there was this gap from Jesse to
[14:19] SCADA.
>> Are we going to be able to provide that
[14:23] information?
So interestingly what I have here or go
[14:28] ahead Lee go ahead. I had a discussion
with Terry Wilson about that as well and
[14:37] he has spoken directly to the state
engineers office since he knows them
[14:42] personally
and uh they um committed to him if we
[14:48] could supply them the production data
from each pump
[14:54] and the spring
from uh for 2025
[15:00] just the totalized number of production
from each each pump and in the spring
[15:06] and also the the consumption by
residents for 2025.
[15:14] They would uh let us go with that
information only as just using 2025 as
[15:22] sort of a new base u for the town. And I
I assume that that our totalizers work
[15:32] on the pumps. Maybe that's a bad
assumption. At least for 2025,
[15:38] if we can get the totalized production
and the totalized conduct uh consumption
[15:46] and give that information to the state
engineers office, that would suffice.
[15:52] » That's a lot simpler than what that
letter said, isn't it?
[15:55] So, hot off the press from this week, I
have a letter from the state engineer's
[16:00] office that says, "The state engineer
approved your application for permit to
[16:05] appropriate groundwater for municipal
groundwater
[16:09] permit number blah blah blah for for the
well." So, now they've seemed to have
[16:13] issued us the
>> without
[16:15] » Okay. Yes,
>> we're lucky. And I haven't we just got
[16:18] this um and Trevor was going to follow
up with Ryan just to make sure
[16:22] everything was in order, but it does
appear to be a permit and documents from
[16:27] the state engineers office.
>> So ground groundwater.
[16:32] » So it's for the
>> It's for the well. It's for well number
[16:37] three, right? That's the one we're
>> That's the one they were questioning.
[16:40] » Yeah.
>> Okay. That should not should not be
[16:42] classified as groundwater. That's out of
the Salt Lake aquifer.
[16:48] » Okay. I just That's what the first line
of the letter says. So
[16:52] » why do you believe it's not groundwater?
[16:59] » He can't hear you.
>> So anyway, looks like maybe
[17:03] » Great.
>> I will send this around
[17:06] » if they got if we got that approved.
>> That's good. Thank you very much.
[17:11] » Yeah, we'll take it. I know it's been a
long time coming, but and then we
[17:14] thought it was going to take a little
while longer after that other letter.
[17:17] » Yeah.
>> But anyway, um
[17:20] » Super.
>> Yeah.
[17:22] » Okay. Do we have any update on the large
meter
[17:26] installation, residential meter?
>> Um we do. So I can't remember if at the
[17:33] last meeting um we had so the large
meter at Fox Run well has been installed
[17:38] and is up and running and providing data
into the new system.
[17:44] However, the other large meters have not
been installed yet. Um, and
[17:51] so I've heard there's we're looking at
possibly having a consultant Mountain
[17:56] West Waterworks come in and help us with
the installation of the rest of them
[18:00] just because
>> they are not as I guess the one that
[18:04] went into Fox one was a pretty easy just
fit right in there. No,
[18:09] » what do they call them? Spacers,
gaskets, whatever required. It was very
[18:13] it was a simple installation. And for
the other ones, my understanding is it
[18:17] might be a little more complicated. And
so public works just wants to make sure
[18:22] that when we get in there and start
doing it that we do it right. So we're I
[18:27] believe they're getting a quote from
Mountain West Waterworks that had been
[18:30] here before and told us they can do lots
of different things to include that.
[18:34] » Excellent.
>> So again, not hasn't been finalized, but
[18:38] so the rest of them are not in yet. kind
of waiting to see what we get it from
[18:42] Mountain West and if we're going to move
forward with that. So,
[18:45] » just because
>> was there a production test done prior
[18:49] to installing it and after installing
the new meter to see how close the
[18:54] meters read to one another?
>> I don't know. I can ask Lee. I didn't
[19:00] get that didn't ask for that level of
detail from but I'll find out.
[19:04] » Mayor, could you rather than ask could
you tell them
[19:07] » Mhm.
>> Tell them to do it. Oh, you mean for the
[19:10] subsequent ones? If they didn't do it
for this one,
[19:13] I can ask and or
>> definitely definitely need some sort of
[19:18] parameter whether or not to be that far
off.
[19:25] » I mean, we don't want to wait 6 months
to find out.
[19:28] » Your concern there, Lee, is the rate of
flow. I mean, we don't know. So, we go
[19:32] look for
>> whether there was an error on the old
[19:35] one. the rate of the rate of flow
measured by the new meter versus the old
[19:39] meter.
I think yeah I I can't believe that he
[19:43] wouldn't have that information even if
it was a couple of months ago or 3
[19:47] months ago doesn't matter he has that
information
[19:52] » uh the water
>> as long as the variable speed drive was
[19:56] set the same
>> right
[19:58] » yeah so
>> okay I got a note
[20:01] » good thank you mayor
>> so anything new on residential meters
[20:06] » those uh we're expecting to get the
first batch sometime
[20:09] early next month. So,
>> yeah, in March the next couple
[20:13] » y
>> 250.
[20:14] » Could we make the same request of you
that you order the before and after test
[20:19] » on
>> residentials as well?
[20:23] » I don't think they want to do all of
them. This is the conversation we had.
[20:27] They don't want to do them all, but
they'll beta test several
[20:31] spots because again, it's going to take
extra time for them to test it.
[20:36] » Yes, understand that. So,
>> and if you're not going to do all is
[20:40] there even a rate of flow in those
meters, aren't they?
[20:43] » Some of them are completely
>> They're just tonalizing how much to
[20:46] which you can read it, turn it on for 5
minutes or 1 minute and then read it
[20:50] again.
>> Actually, actually, what we recommended
[20:52] was a 20 gallon bucket.
>> Okay,
[20:56] » it's the last item.
>> I have a I have another question. Um,
[21:01] our advisor Dave Roberts had asked to
leave a space
[21:07] around where the new meter goes for the
potential
[21:12] positioning of a strap-on acoustic meter
to um validate the flow meter or the
[21:19] flow rate of uh administered by the uh
mag meter to see if uh it's being
[21:28] accurate.
and um make sure that you have a full
[21:32] pipe.
[21:36] » We just mix two things together.
[21:41] » Is that recommendation on large meters
only?
[21:43] » On the large meters only.
>> Just the large meters, Lee, not the
[21:46] » It's really just a It's just something
that
[21:50] » Okay. Yeah, these meters will eventually
lose their effectiveness
[21:56] and so it's a monitoring thing.
>> Okay. I don't know about that. I do
[22:04] vaguely remember the discussion and
again I'm going to apologize for not
[22:07] being overly prepared today. It's been
>> Yeah.
[22:09] » wild ride this week.
>> You're excused.
[22:14] » Been there. You're excused.
>> Oh goodness.
[22:18] This next item uh was uh requested by
Dave. Um
[22:24] » I think the mayor knows all about it.
>> Does she?
[22:27] » Well, I was approached by
the HOA folks um because they found out
[22:34] I was on the
[22:37] she got published. So evidently there's
been an issue that's been kind of
[22:42] longstanding
with some of the accounts that the HOA
[22:48] has
and it's been going on for a while. I
[22:52] think boy you may even know something
about this from your past
[22:58] » about
um just the water usage and and the HOA
[23:03] needs some of this data because they
have to report to the state or to the
[23:07] DEEQ. Yeah.
>> And so it's it's been a troubling thing.
[23:12] And
uh the HOA manager asked if I could
[23:18] help.
They said, "Well," and then I found out
[23:23] that they had a meeting with you. And
so,
[23:26] » yeah.
>> And and it may not just it may not be
[23:28] the meter. may be the back office
process that's ongoing about how they
[23:33] take the data that they get and that's
processed into an account and
[23:38] » yeah it's
>> stuff. So
[23:40] » well their issue is if if they're using
as much water as we say they're using
[23:45] they have to put in a bigger septic
>> right
[23:47] » that's the issue.
>> Yeah. And so on our end from the town
[23:51] side it's kind of a twofold issue. One
is, and this is again kind of me
[23:57] learning over the last month or so that
this has been an ongoing problem. At
[24:01] when I was first on the council, I
remember um then Mayor Buyers telling
[24:06] the council there was an issue with the
meter at Cedar Creek Center and the town
[24:10] was going to replace it and didn't hear
much more about it then.
[24:15] So, at some point, I don't know if that
meter got replaced. It was supposed to.
[24:18] Um, but anyway, there's been trouble
with the meter readings. First, the
[24:23] Cedar Creek center meter, and for
whatever reason, you know, they're all
[24:28] electronically read. That one sometimes
when it's been read, it'll when it gets
[24:34] in the system, I guess gets transferred
into the billing system, a digit gets
[24:37] dropped. So, that's why there's been
some inconsistency.
[24:41] you know, this was the usage last month
and suddenly the next month the digit
[24:45] gets dropped and instead of 10,000
gallons, it's a million gallons of
[24:49] usage. So, and then we've had some
issues downstairs with just the billing
[24:54] in general because one of the things
that's supposed to happen is that as the
[24:58] billing is done, it's supposed to be
reviewed so that we can look and see if
[25:02] there's any crazy
>> blips and things.
[25:05] And we've also asked that special
attention be paid to the associations
[25:10] accounts because of these ongoing
issues. And that does not that did not
[25:15] unfortunately happen the last couple of
billing cycles for whatever reason. So
[25:19] it just kind of in my opinion
snowballed. So we have now replaced the
[25:24] meter over there. The guys are also
supposed to manually read that meter,
[25:29] not drive by or drive up or whatever
they do.
[25:32] » Good. We're also supposed to, and I know
we didn't get this right last time
[25:36] either, um, or actually when the meter
was just read earlier this week, they're
[25:42] supposed, we've asked our public works
guys to when they go over there to
[25:45] manually read it to please get Ernie
Bigalow, who's their maintenance or
[25:48] facilities manager, have Ernie with them
when it's read because Ernie's been
[25:53] taking pictures, I guess, of the meter
readings and they've been doing their
[25:56] own analysis. So, we dropped the ball on
that and did not coordinate with Ernie
[26:00] this past week, but we're going to work
on fixing that. So, in the meantime,
[26:04] Loretta, our treasurer, has gone back
through all the billing and there is a
[26:08] credit that's due.
So far, it's like close to $700 on their
[26:13] bill. Now, the last time when I had my
meeting with the association board last
[26:19] week or the week before, they were
thinking we owed them about $3,000. And
[26:23] I don't believe it's anywhere close to
that. But yes, we do owe them some
[26:27] money. So, we're still working through
reviewing the accounts. Um, and then
[26:32] also locking in these meter reading
procedures so that we can better
[26:36] coordinate with them so that everybody
has a level of comfort going forward
[26:39] that, you know, it's not them, it's not
us, it's that we have all the facts.
[26:44] » And then also the back office work to
make sure that we're checking for
[26:48] » Yes. Yes.
>> Yeah. That has to be done. Yeah. That's
[26:51] an easy fix of some
>> sort. So, mayor, we had um
[26:58] whoever the software guys, uh they
created a report for us that goes all
[27:04] the way back to three years of
consumption every month by resident.
[27:08] » So, you can actually, you know, you can
see if there's a blip. You can always
[27:12] see where there needs to be a new meter
because it all of a sudden drops off or
[27:16] goes way high and then a new meter is
installed and then it's more normal with
[27:21] historical. But that reporting that she,
you know, now has, she could just look
[27:26] at it. I know it's still
>> 1,200 blinds.
[27:29] » Yeah.
>> But you could still go through very
[27:31] quickly like I did visually and just see
cuz you see the million the million
[27:36] gallon
>> and you see the ones that just dropped
[27:38] to nothing,
>> right? So it's there's definitely
[27:42] anomalies and it's been
>> very visible. whatever the meter at
[27:46] Cedar Creek Center and then the one one
of the ones is the one on Walnut because
[27:49] they have
>> eight different accounts.
[27:52] » Eight accounts and and and they told me
four of them have an issue and so I
[27:57] would just pay attention to those four
every month so that we don't have the
[28:00] wrath of the HOA.
>> Oh yes, absolutely. And like I said,
[28:04] we're trying to
>> trying to that in with you know on the
[28:08] administrative end and then also on the
you know when the guys go out there and
[28:11] do breeding. So
>> the field field stuff in the background.
[28:14] » Exactly.
>> To follow up on what way said, if if we
[28:18] use that type of reporting and you look
at
[28:21] » and there is an issue, if it's high,
it's usually a leak
[28:27] or they leave it on running
>> or a bad meter
[28:30] » or a bad meter. But I mean, the first
first two things we can tell really easy
[28:35] is are they gone?
>> Mhm.
[28:38] » Are they here? and and and when it's
low,
[28:42] » it it's they're gone. Most of the time
they've gone they gone a two week
[28:46] vacation or they away for the summer. So
those are things you can look at from a
[28:51] 3 to four months and if they're all
zeros, you know they're not there.
[28:55] » And if if it's way up high for two or 3
months, the odds are it's a meter and
[29:02] not somebody leaving the water on.
>> Yes.
[29:05] » Toilets do that to you. However, they
last forever. You know, when they don't
[29:08] fix those, people don't understand how
much water goes.
[29:11] » With this report, you can compare and
that's the best part. And you can see
[29:14] when somebody sells their house because
it may have been high and then now it's
[29:19] low and consistent for it was low and it
now it's high. It's really
[29:23] » four kids before too.
>> I I spent way too many hours just
[29:27] looking and digesting the data and
running pivot tables off of it. I said,
[29:31] "Well,
>> that's really good that you have that.
[29:33] That'll be helpful." Yeah, it's we had
them generate that report for us. So,
[29:37] » all right.
>> So, is that available from the new SCADA
[29:40] system?
>> I couldn't tell.
[29:42] » That's consumption.
>> That's why it's whatever that system is.
[29:47] » That's right.
>> The billing.
[29:48] » Yeah, I think it's
>> I don't remember the name.
[29:52] » I think it is Cassell.
>> It is Cassell.
[29:54] » It's going to be something we're going
to look at when determining loss on
[29:58] account for water. I mean, comparing
production versus consumption.
[30:02] Yeah,
>> I got a new meter when I moved in.
[30:05] » Cut us off
>> and uh it always read 50 52 55 something
[30:11] like that
>> and then the utilization was like 4
[30:14] cents.
>> And uh until I got on the water board
[30:18] and saw the the ordinance and calculated
out and said, "Well, they're not
[30:23] multiplying anything here. There's
something wrong."
[30:27] And I brought it up in waterboard and I
was assured that everything was okay.
[30:32] And and uh then I finally brought the
bill in and showed it to the mayor and
[30:36] said, "Do you see a problem here?"
>> The right answer wasn't yours in
[30:42] » dropping digits.
>> Yeah. The right answer is there are
[30:45] always going to be anomalies.
>> Yeah.
[30:47] » Yeah.
>> And that's what you're looking for each
[30:49] month. And I know I mean whether it's or
somebody I they're not trained yet to
[30:54] spot those those anomalies yet. But the
more you do it,
[30:58] » the better you'll get.
>> So
[31:01] » Well, thank you, Mayor.
>> Sure.
[31:03] » Another work in progress.
>> Well, no, but you're you're headed in
[31:07] the right direction. It's always a sure
you can't get there overnight.
[31:10] » No,
>> but we'd like to see everybody going in
[31:13] the same direction.
>> Okay. Thank you, Mayor. Um on to new
[31:19] business. Uh
last night was the planning they called
[31:24] the planning commission.
>> Planning commission. Yes. Very official.
[31:27] » The planning commission invited
me and the roadsport person to come talk
[31:34] to them about this mountain state's
annexation.
[31:37] And uh I had a few issues that I gave
them thought needed to be resolved. And
[31:45] um but I did have some time to talk to
the developer afterwards and ask some
[31:50] questions.
Um
[31:53] we have a map, you know, in in Ryan's
report on this that shows, you know, all
[32:00] the connections connection to the
system. And uh one of the questions I
[32:05] asked him was, "Are you putting in all
the pipes now or just for the plats that
[32:13] you're working on?" And he says, "Oh,
well, you can't economically do all of
[32:16] them. You have to do it piece by piece."
>> And so I guess my question is is, you
[32:23] know, we know it works when it's fully
built out and connected.
[32:27] Um
when do we start connecting piece by
[32:33] piece to the system, you know, and are
there going to be critical connections
[32:38] to our system that are needed to run
just a couple of pieces of it? You know,
[32:45] does uh does Ryan need to look at that
and kind of map out how, you know, this
[32:50] is going to be absolutely needed when
this division starts and uh and then as
[32:56] we build out, you know, we can add the
other pieces up. Is that a question of
[33:01] concern?
>> No, I think it's a good question. Um,
[33:07] when looking at how they plan on
developing the entire area, I think
[33:13] they're developing on the west side
first and then moving east.
[33:19] » That's how I looked at it.
>> So, down by money string first.
[33:22] » Yeah. Money string. And so my sense is
once we're good with a well there which
[33:29] is already serving those multif family
um homes right now that they'll be
[33:38] hooking up those westside homes. Mhm.
>> Ryan recommended a connection to the
[33:42] Muddy Stream pipeline. And I think
that's the time when you want to connect
[33:47] that to to the Muddy Stream pipeline so
that there's two sources of water that
[33:53] can serve those people in case the well
goes out, you can get it from the Muddy
[33:58] Stream pipeline and you can use the well
to supplement into the Muddy Stream
[34:03] pipeline that takes it north and
conserve a lot of land out, a lot of the
[34:07] homes out there in that area. So, I
think it's something to ask Ryan about
[34:11] in terms of the timing of of when that
those things phases would sort of
[34:16] » come into play and when you would
connect. Eventually, you're going to
[34:18] want to have a connection on the east
side and a pressure relief valve there
[34:23] because you're going to have to manage
those pressures in
[34:25] » Well, he shows three connections.
I think there' be one on the
[34:30] » only reason you'd the only reason you'd
ever connect to that is if it's a
[34:35] foregone conclusion that you're going to
annex it. And I don't think we have that
[34:40] kind of information that we can say
>> yes, we're going to annex.
[34:46] We're talking
>> no way should No way should we be doing
[34:49] that.
>> That's that's correct, Lee. We're
[34:50] talking right now as if the annexation
was approved then when the timing is on
[34:56] some of the connections.
>> We're trying to get problems solved with
[35:00] the developer prior to annexation rather
than after.
[35:06] » Can I ask?
>> Do we know what kind of do we know what
[35:08] kind of pipe he's put in presently? Is
it consistent with the town's
[35:14] specification for water delivery?
I don't know that we know that at this
[35:20] point in time. That's a question that we
have to
[35:22] » Yeah. something we need to find out.
>> That doesn't mean we'll have to tear
[35:25] down. I
>> I think a lot of your questions that you
[35:28] asked, Lee,
are going to be things that
[35:33] that we have to find out as much as we
can now. But for the most part, if the
[35:39] annexation goes through, a lot of that
stuff will be grandfathered in. And then
[35:43] anything after the annexation is going
to have to fall within the town codes
[35:49] and the town requirements
>> and the water any water system
[35:54] components that were to go in at after
that point will have to be approved by
[35:58] Ryan.
>> Of course, Ryan will be involved in all
[36:01] that. Correct. But the Ryan's given them
Ryan's given them Ryan's report
[36:08] indicates that he's given a considerable
amount of credit for that well
[36:14] » and financial credit you're talking
about.
[36:17] » Yes.
>> If if we can use it
[36:19] » if we can use it.
>> If it Yeah. But I'm I guess what I'm
[36:22] trying to say is what Lee is asking has
a direct effect on the value of that
[36:28] system. And unless we know what it is,
is it approved? It should be certified
[36:34] first if we can. All we get so we know
what we're getting
[36:38] » because the minute we take it, it's
ours, baby.
[36:43] » And and all these records I've seen of
all this money we're going to get from
[36:47] him are 2068.
They're not 2027
[36:56] because all those payments come to us. I
looked up his his tax property tax bill
[37:03] and last year it was under 6 or $7,000
>> for that 80 acres
[37:08] » for that 80 acres and the forplex.
>> Yeah.
[37:11] » And we're not going to get rich until
that thing is there. Now he's got a
[37:15] master plan of master plan. He doesn't
have a master plan in his mind. He's
[37:20] going to put in a forplex and and 10
homes
[37:23] » in the first phase.
>> I will. Yeah. Next year. Next year, sir.
[37:27] » This this next
>> and
[37:29] » I'll guarantee you Mr. Stewart had that
same plan
[37:33] » that he was going to sell us stuff like
hotcakes and he had the best campaign
[37:38] you've ever seen. He had people flying
in from Las Vegas and LA and Salt Lake
[37:42] and Idaho. And we are we are what now?
45
[37:48] almost 50 years old and we're at 55%.
>> You're 60. Can I Can I share with you
[37:56] one change that's happened in the county
though that's changing what's happened
[38:00] in the past versus what's in the future.
All development now is all five acres.
[38:08] There's very few new developments that
have or you know like his with acre or
[38:14] less.
>> Yeah. So there's people that don't want
[38:16] five acres because they have to spend
$250,000 just for the land.
[38:20] » Hand drill their own well, hand and
here's what they're going to look at
[38:24] that and they're going to say, "Wow, I
can get my 6/10 of an acre and and I get
[38:32] water, I get roads, and so I think it's
going to be more attractive based on
[38:37] just the overall growth in the
>> unless he unless he can already do that.
[38:43] already do that with the town of Star
Valley Ranch without without
[38:50] » only if only if a lot is for sale.
>> But you can't just go condemn somebody
[38:57] else's lot cuz they want to live there.
>> I I you know, a lot of the lots in town
[39:03] probably I mean I don't know what
percent, but there's a significant
[39:07] number that will never be built on.
>> I I have one right across the street.
[39:12] I'm not going to block my view in my
lifetime.
[39:14] » But guess what? As soon as you die, kids
sell them.
[39:17] » I and somebody will build eventually,
but there's a lot of trust that own
[39:21] these properties and you know cuz I get
an email every every week.
[39:25] » Well, will you sell your property?
>> The older people that moved up here,
[39:30] » many of them bought several lots.
>> So,
[39:32] » and I Well, y'all went on the picture
there that owns three of them that now
[39:35] he owns only one cuz he put them
together. But but the I guess what I'm
[39:40] trying to say is
>> none of us know
[39:42] » all of us are very optimistic about when
the town's going to make money.
[39:45] » Yeah.
>> And all of our expenses are up front and
[39:49] all of our revenues are in the back end.
And I don't mean all all but the
[39:54] majority of them.
>> It's and his report, Ryan's report did
[39:58] not indicate there was no timeline.
>> And well,
[40:00] » it looked like we were going to be
minute and a half ahead. So, the town,
[40:04] well, I'll let the mayor speak about the
town did an economic study or at least
[40:08] looked at at what the revenues would be
over time and what the expenses would be
[40:13] over time.
>> Yes.
[40:14] » What now needs to be done is that
combined so you can see the net benefit
[40:18] at over time.
>> Y
[40:20] » and so we need that information. So,
>> I didn't see
[40:24] the based on assumptions, right? And you
can argue
[40:27] » no make the assumption so that's point
>> I think that's
[40:34] we do need that
>> the the part of that analysis that
[40:38] matches up those revenues and costs so
you can see that more than likely the
[40:44] actual revenue benefits will be realized
further down the road than immediately.
[40:49] Right.
>> And and we're we're struggling right
[40:51] now. We struggle every year with our
with our budget
[40:54] » and we've got 60% finance I mean 60%
developed and he's going to have 10%
[41:02] developed and so you can see the
difference between that and I don't
[41:06] mayor don't get me wrong if we can solve
the water issues
[41:11] » and we can get money up front or a bond
or whatever you can get that guarantees
[41:16] us every developer in this
[41:22] Let me put it this way. If you're a good
carpenter, you are not a good
[41:28] uh contracting manager.
You just because you're a good carpenter
[41:33] doesn't make you a good manager.
Uh great school teachers do not make
[41:38] good carpenters. Most there's a few, but
not all of them. And I'm just trying to
[41:42] pull this out that we have a lot of
developers
[41:47] that have developed the same piece of
property how different people have
[41:50] developed it because they all go broke.
>> And so from a town standpoint, we ought
[41:55] to be really really we should be we
don't got to do nothing. We should be
[41:59] really conservative on how we look at
this because we're we're a we're the
[42:04] youngest town in the state of Wyoming.
That's a fact. Nobody else has stepped
[42:10] up to that since we did. The other issue
is is we're not plush on money. We don't
[42:16] have a reserve anywhere that's that we
anyone would say we're comfortable with
[42:21] our reserves. So, let's just make darn
sure we understand cash flows and our
[42:27] guarantees are there because we we
shouldn't base our decision on him being
[42:33] successful. We ought to base our
decision on him not being successful.
[42:37] Then we'll be conservative enough that
we won't take these steps that say
[42:41] you're going to get a million7 from him
in X years and we're going to sit here
[42:45] for 50 years waiting for that next year
to show up. I don't mean to pound
[42:50] » when I hear when I hear in a a town
council workshop that oh you're only uh
[42:58] annexing the land and as soon as we
annex them the development plan that is
[43:05] proposed by Mountain Estates is out the
window and so how can the town even plan
[43:12] that it's going to be half acre or x
number 13 town houses or or whatever if
[43:21] everything goes out the window as soon
as we annex the land. And we also have a
[43:28] commitment in our ordinance title five
that any water user inside the
[43:36] boundaries of the town has got to be
supplied by the town. So that well has
[43:41] got to go over to town ownership as soon
as uh we if we annex that and I don't
[43:49] know whether Mountain Estates is ready
to do that.
[43:53] » Let me bring up another question.
>> Get annexed if they're not.
[43:56] » Yeah. Look at it this way though.
Wouldn't you be nervous if you were the
[44:00] developer?
Is it telling me the commitment to him
[44:04] what we're going to do if we annex him?
>> No. I heard that we t Taylor said in a
[44:11] council meeting
we will be able to control this and
[44:15] change things that we don't like if it's
too
[44:18] » he would have to follow our ordinances
in the code.
[44:20] » Yes, he would. Yes.
>> If we annex him, he has to
[44:23] » then our ordinances he can't have
anymore. So which means you have to
[44:27] change your ordinances to be compliant.
We don't have multiple units in our town
[44:33] ordinances. We have multifamily zoning
with town
[44:35] » zoning
>> and condos.
[44:37] » Okay. All right.
>> Sorry for my time.
[44:41] » It's less It's less dense.
>> It's less dense than
[44:45] » Is he willing to agree to our
ordinances?
[44:47] » He'd have to.
>> He had I mean
[44:48] » No, he doesn't have to. He can say screw
it. I'm I'm going to leave it and just
[44:52] leave it bare land.
>> Oh, yeah. He
[44:53] » Oh, yeah. Sure.
>> I mean I mean seriously, let's be honest
[44:57] about this. It
>> just be very conservative, mayor. Make
[45:02] sure your tail is really covered
>> on your backside.
[45:06] » That's why we're talking about some of
these things.
[45:08] » If he's if he's going to build to the
plan that that was
[45:13] uh conditionally approved by the county
of commissioners,
[45:17] then hold him to it and make him put in
the roads and make him put in the water
[45:21] lines and the power
>> and
[45:27] » then then we got something. for right
now. If it's just going to peace meal a
[45:32] » a home
>> two or three a year,
[45:36] » um we don't have anything.
>> What What authority does the town have
[45:42] regarding lot size,
things of that nature, if he doesn't
[45:46] follow the plan that the countyy's
already approved,
[45:50] » we've never had a minimum because we we
as a town
[45:55] uh incorporated what was here,
>> right? Everything was totally platted
[46:01] before we were a town.
>> Yeah, I was going to say I don't think
[46:03] and that's the thing with this. It's not
there's no plat on county record books
[46:09] for mountain estates right now.
>> We should require So can you require
[46:14] that as a condition of annexation
>> that
[46:19] » that that get platted?
if the multifamily concept that he wants
[46:25] to build out is 16 of these units.
Right.
[46:28] » Right. In the front. Right.
>> But but our ordinance says that you can
[46:31] only have one for every 15,000.
>> So we have to modify that cuz it's too
[46:35] dense. Right.
>> Right.
[46:36] » And I think to me and really really need
that annexation agreement draft from the
[46:41] attorney.
>> See what he's got in there to start
[46:44] with. But I believe that saying at least
you have to
[46:49] flat it by phase. You know, right now he
wants to do a phase development, but we
[46:54] should have a condition where we need to
see what that is and make sure it
[46:58] conforms to our ordinances.
>> Um before we approve him to put one new
[47:05] structure
>> because he won't get a permit to build
[47:07] if we annex him. He won't have a permit
to build without the town
[47:12] permit. and we will we will end up
plowing roads and providing water and
[47:18] we'll get $7,000 a year in taxes. But
the two things we know, do we know what
[47:25] kind of septic uh system he put in for
the existing townhouse?
[47:31] » Is that a enhanced septic system?
>> Do they have a space for u a secondary
[47:39] um drain field? all of the things that
the town requires is does what what does
[47:46] he have there? He he committed that he
would put in enhanced septic systems.
[47:52] Did he do it?
>> I think the answer to that is yes. And
[47:56] that one of the documents we have on the
annexation page of the town website.
[48:01] We've been posting all the information.
There is a pretty voluminous water and
[48:06] wastewater study that Sunrise did just
from I think it's 2024 and it details
[48:11] all what their plan is for everything.
So,
[48:14] » right.
>> I just wonder if they really
[48:19] may there's two things you can do. You
can make him
[48:25] live up to our standards or you can
change our standards to allow him to do
[48:30] things. So you do have a choice.
>> Oh, sure.
[48:33] » The other side of it is though, what are
the people expecting you all to do as
[48:38] council?
>> So let me just ask a simple question if
[48:41] you can answer it. Are we here to say
when you annex him, here's the things
[48:46] you should include or should we say here
are the questions we have before you
[48:51] decide to annex him?
>> I think both.
[48:54] » Well, no, there's
>> I think I think some of that stuff we
[48:57] don't know yet. So, it is going to be a
question. Some of the stuff we do know
[49:00] already.
>> The facts are there. We may not know it,
[49:05] but the facts are there.
>> So, we can ask questions
[49:08] » that you all need to get answered. And
when you're answered to your
[49:11] satisfaction,
>> then you're there.
[49:13] » Yep. And we've we've been trying to um
post even those sorts of things on the
[49:19] website with, you know, the emails we've
gotten where people have asked us
[49:22] questions. We've been posting the
questions and the responses. The
[49:26] planning commission has a whole list of
questions that we answered some of them
[49:29] last night. That's right.
>> Got a new list of questions. So, we're
[49:33] going to put those on the website. Um
but yeah, so that's why I I asked Steve
[49:37] if he would be willing to come and talk
with us. Um and then after the meeting
[49:43] to, you know, have the water board put
forward any other questions, concerns
[49:47] you have. That'll help the planning
commission, too, because
[49:52] » we'll know, you know, we'll know what we
don't know. Well, and and already from
[49:56] reading uh Ryan's report and some of the
things that he mentioned in that report,
[50:01] there are some recommendations we could
make to, you know, to cure the issues
[50:05] that have been addressed. Like there are
some
[50:08] » there are some dead end piping in there
>> and Ryan suggested you loop those. So,
[50:14] we're going to recommend that that the
town request that those be looped in and
[50:19] not be dead ends.
>> Sure. I think the well capacity or if
[50:23] there's another well needs to be
addressed and I and I don't think the
[50:28] town actually
should take the land in until that's
[50:34] resolved.
>> The well here here
[50:36] » that needs to be that needs to be
resolved to the satisfaction of the
[50:39] town. So in the annexation agreement you
can have that as condition. We'll give
[50:43] you 180 days or 365 days to do that.
That's done. Then we'll annex. So
[50:49] annexation may not happen for a year or
two years,
[50:51] » right? No, that
>> because you've got all these things he's
[50:54] got to do before it happens.
>> It's like our own conditions of
[50:57] approval,
>> right? Of course.
[50:59] » Before we What's in it for him?
>> Well, there's a lot in it.
[51:03] » I talked to him.
>> And it's all money.
[51:05] » I talked to you.
>> We're saving him a ton of money. He's
[51:09] going to he's going to build all those
homes out there. He's going to make
[51:11] money off that.
>> Well, but he does not want to manage
[51:14] water. That's what it I he doesn't want
to manage his own small
[51:21] » Well, I tell you what, that that well
>> can help serve the land to the north
[51:27] when it's hooked into that money
pipeline. It's just another source of
[51:30] supply for that
>> and it and it by doing that it it
[51:34] creates us more reliable supply upstream
at Prader Canyon and Green Canyon.
[51:39] » And that's a benefit that starts day
one. That's that starts right away. You
[51:43] connect that back.
>> The water will run downhill into Green
[51:47] Canyon tank.
>> What will
[51:49] » his
>> No, it will run up. It will run downhill
[51:53] to the north.
>> Well, I'm just saying
[51:58] » when he hooks it into our main system,
it'll run downhill into our tank if we
[52:03] want it.
>> If we wanted to. Yeah.
[52:04] » And so you can get it there to where
it'll be full distribution.
[52:08] » It can. and and so you know the the the
uh
[52:11] » it's a valuable asset if it's
>> Ryan
[52:15] » estimated that they need 90 gallons a
minute for sort of everyday use
[52:20] » for them
>> right and then the the maximum use would
[52:23] be up over 500 but then the that that's
on a single point in time but the
[52:29] maximum sort of daily use would be 205
gallons a minute and that's the the
[52:33] capacity that we would ask for for this
well
[52:35] » y
>> is 205 gallons because that additional
[52:39] 105 gallons a minute that you're going
to that can help the rest of the town. I
[52:43] mean, there's got to be something in it
for us as an asset for the water system
[52:47] and the well would be that asset.
>> The well is only permitted for 150
[52:53] gallon a minute.
>> I know he needs to he needs to
[52:57] » he needs to improve it to 205. Lee,
>> whatever it takes.
[53:02] » Yeah.
need more than that to make it
[53:06] worthwhile for the town. We already can
supply
[53:09] uh the town at to at full build out.
>> Now we can
[53:15] » Well, this would be this would be an
extra measure of u additional supply.
[53:20] » Did did Ry and I'm sorry that I've read
a lot of things but I my memory is
[53:25] really short. So, did Ryan include the
the additional requirement on our
[53:30] storage for that? Because once he's
plugged in, he's using our storage. He
[53:35] will use our storage in in times of
drought, you know, when it when it's
[53:41] really high dem high demand is what the
word is.
[53:43] » Wasn't that in the impact fee?
>> No, we did. We wiped it out practically.
[53:47] » It's not practically, but there's
something in there. is 205 gallons a
[53:52] minute and they only need 90
>> 90 average.
[53:57] » Yeah,
>> I'm talking about when it is when they
[54:00] when their demand is greater than the
well capacity, they're going to have to
[54:04] use our storage,
>> right? And I doubt that their wells
[54:07] their demand's going to exceed that 2005
gallons.
[54:10] » Not not for 57 years a long time out if
I'm right. But our people are paying
[54:15] money into a
>> kid theoretically for those futures. So
[54:20] they should be paying into it, but
they're not going to pay into it until
[54:24] he develops it. That's what I'm really
concerned about. If that thing was
[54:27] planted, we got we got we've had over a
thousand people paying $25 a month, $30,
[54:33] $30, whatever we charge them
>> for future costs.
[54:37] » Mhm.
>> And they're going to come in for free.
[54:39] Nobody gets that. Nobody has to pay for
a damn penny up there unless he has a
[54:44] phase that does it. And he's got so many
phases that he may never get.
[54:48] » But if he doesn't do the phase, it's not
hurting the town any
[54:53] » right. There's no demand.
>> So you're Is that what you're
[54:56] » No, I'm just saying why again.
>> No, but we could say the same thing to
[55:00] our people. If if you don't sell your
lot, why do we have to do all this
[55:05] stuff? But you have to plan for the
eventual. But I'm saying if if it never
[55:09] came to fruition,
>> right?
[55:10] » Let's say you only built 10 homes and
two two multif family.
[55:16] » Again, it's enough capacity
>> with what he currently has.
[55:20] » I don't I don't question it a bit, but
look look a vacant lot owner in the eye
[55:25] and say, "But they're not developed.
They're not developed.
[55:29] » It's not a lot yet because
>> because you're not required." You see
[55:33] what I'm saying? He should be required
to have a full
[55:37] » platted
>> platted deal. He's got vacant lots. We
[55:40] got vacant lots. He's got
>> I I think that's one of the recommend I
[55:44] mean that we just talked about that.
>> But it's got to be not a plan to where
[55:47] he doesn't pay anything until he gets
there. It's got to be here. It is
[55:51] » that provides certainty. The plat the
plat provides certainty to the town that
[55:55] that's going to be developed like that.
I think that's important. I think why he
[55:58] would have a problem with that. And if
he goes bankrupt, somebody else that he
[56:02] wants to execute now
>> and and he has it work.
[56:06] » So get platted to all of our points
>> except for I don't want to I don't want
[56:10] to see 16.
>> But you don't have to see it.
[56:14] » I I'm just saying that would have to be
a change.
[56:17] » Change, right?
>> Because again, if he's going to plat it,
[56:21] » not being annexed, he's going to he's
going to go do that.
[56:23] » Yeah.
>> And then we have to grandfather him if
[56:25] we ever annex him
>> because it's been platted that way.
[56:29] So,
>> I think there's enough pain on his part
[56:32] financially
>> that if you tell him he has to do it,
[56:34] he'll probably do it.
>> Well,
[56:38] » good discussion.
>> Well, I think a likely scenario is uh 20
[56:43] years from now there's 30 ohms there.
>> That's probably about right. You know,
[56:48] probably
>> I'm very biased cuz I stare out my front
[56:53] window at that wonderful field and I can
see those storage from my picture
[56:59] window. Oh, that's a that's another
deal. The storage units aren't included.
[57:04] » The storage you are the storage units
are currently using somebody's water.
[57:09] Either one of our customers
illegally are doing Yeah. They're
[57:14] watering their trees. They had trees out
there. Okay. and they got water from one
[57:18] of our customers and we told them they
couldn't sell water
[57:21] » and I don't know if they turned it off
or if he's brought that well over and
[57:25] some the question should be do they have
water yeah that they're going to have to
[57:31] get their own
>> well this developer
[57:32] » no they can have it cuz we have out of
town water rates but they need a meter
[57:36] » anymore
sold it but why would Yeah because
[57:41] that's a piece of commercial property as
well
[57:44] » which would generate at least a little
Well, yeah. It could it would double
[57:48] what you're getting in for start with,
>> you know.
[57:52] » So, anyway, I think a scenario is in 20
years, we've got maybe 30 homes there.
[57:56] » Yeah.
>> And he walks away, sells the risk
[57:59] because it's time to retire.
>> Well, if it's but if it's planted, we
[58:04] don't care.
>> That's the importance of the plan.
[58:07] » I don't think so.
>> And and it'd be easy to sell those to
[58:11] other other
>> well developers.
[58:14] Look at the worst. he goes bankrupt and
you want to buy that property.
[58:18] » Mhm.
>> You buy the property with the planning
[58:20] as it is,
>> right?
[58:22] » And you're not going to buy it unless
you agree to it.
[58:24] » And we're not going to let you we're not
going to change our ideas. No. You see
[58:29] what I'm saying? So I think
>> the same thing applies to water rights.
[58:32] » Yeah.
>> We need to have those upfront because we
[58:35] don't want them sold to a third party at
some point. I think that is this time
[58:40] » for the whole for the whole
>> we don't want somebody setting up a
[58:45] private system the water rights we own
the in state went through we're
[58:51] granted of the water
[58:56] » you know more about that
>> I just remember
[58:59] » all water rights are like that we didn't
get
[59:02] » we don't like using that word because
it's too hard to pronounce anyway
[59:06] » you understand that's the important
Well, I think I think
[59:10] » but every time we have a conversation
like this, we gather more and more
[59:14] information from everybody.
>> This could be a good deal if
[59:20] » and I don't think anybody would
disagree. It's just all of us agreeing
[59:23] what this this and this.
>> Right. I think the questions that Lee
[59:27] raised should be added to the questions
for you all to to review and post on
[59:32] them.
>> So, do you want a formal re
[59:34] recommendation from the board? I yeah I
would love to have you know if you've
[59:39] got these well I've got these questions
in the email but if you want to put
[59:43] those and any others together along with
a sort of a formal recommendation
[59:49] » you know that that gives us something to
also then as a town and the staff to
[59:54] find answers to if there are answers
available and share those all of that
[59:59] off with the public on the website and
in meetings. So
[1:00:03] » do you want me to draft up something?
>> Sure. You're the best person to do it.
[1:00:08] » This
you guys
[1:00:10] » and I have spent the last three weeks.
>> This is excellent.
[1:00:14] » Putting together everything we could.
Now, let me tell you how we did it.
[1:00:18] » We went and we we said, "Let's just
start writing. Don't try to organize
[1:00:22] anything."
>> We said, "Put questions down. What
[1:00:25] happens if this or what if we don't do
this or what if we do that?"
[1:00:28] » Is that what this is?
>> That's what that is. So, it's not it's
[1:00:32] not made to be say don't do it. is to
say if you do it, here's what you should
[1:00:37] do. And it's not complete by any means,
but it's at least it's all of our
[1:00:42] thoughts that we put a lot of time and
effort in. And and the the alder, you
[1:00:48] can laugh at some of those alternates,
but we got to say, what's the wildest or
[1:00:53] alder you could ask for? And we put a
couple of those in there,
[1:00:57] » but but the last page is questions and
the first page is whatever we put on
[1:01:03] there as a title. you really need that
first page answered. I think that'll
[1:01:07] help you get started. So, use those
David to your discretion.
[1:01:11] » Well,
>> if you know the answer, don't do it. But
[1:01:14] » yeah, many times they don't. So,
>> but it it's better to have can some 10
[1:01:19] people ask you the same question. Not
but anybody not.
[1:01:23] » We're going to focus since we are the
water utility board focus on the water.
[1:01:28] » Yeah.
>> Exclusively.
[1:01:29] » Yes.
and our I think some of the questions we
[1:01:35] want answered should be separate from
our
[1:01:37] » recommendations. Correct.
>> Oh, absolutely.
[1:01:40] » Yeah. And I also talked to him about the
the wellhead protection area, the 200
[1:01:46] foot thing and uh he's seems confident
that I mean he's talked with the
[1:01:53] neighboring owners and seems confident
he'll get a variance on that. And uh he
[1:01:59] said that the rumors about him him being
sued about it are false. He's not being
[1:02:04] sued about it. So
>> well there's enough rumors that
[1:02:07] » the variance what what is the variance?
>> 200 foot wellhead protection.
[1:02:12] » I know but the does the variance say
that
[1:02:16] would it say that within that 200t area
there would not be developed a septic
[1:02:22] game.
>> Yeah.
[1:02:23] » Is that what it's going to say with the
with the neighboring land owner?
[1:02:26] » Basically
>> I would think so. Yeah. So then that
[1:02:28] well I'm just trying to understand it.
So that would have to be something that
[1:02:33] would have to be um that would run with
that neighbor's land.
[1:02:38] » So any subsequent owner knows that
>> and it has to be conveyable
[1:02:44] to the town.
>> Yeah.
[1:02:48] » That variance has to be something that
the town can enforce
[1:02:51] » separate transaction.
>> It it yes it has to be enforceable. And
[1:02:55] then there's also a condition, a
covenant that runs with that neighbor's
[1:02:59] land
>> that that variance is in place and no
[1:03:03] septic tank can be developed.
>> Yeah.
[1:03:05] » Because if she ends up selling that
land, that new owner needs to know that
[1:03:08] it just runs with the land.
>> Mhm.
[1:03:11] » Well, the if you look at the circle,
there's one of his lots that's about 65
[1:03:16] 70% inside that circle. Right. I would
recommend very strongly that you
[1:03:21] consider making that a utility