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We have

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several people.

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We have several people online.

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Um, but we're gonna go ahead and

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get started. So, welcome. Um,

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this meeting is being held in

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person and broadcast on the

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General Assembly's homepage. If

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you have questions or comments

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about this meeting, please

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direct them to

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legislative.council at

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Delaware.gov or call the

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Division of Legislative Services

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at 302-744-4114. I'm gonna start

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by taking role. Welcome to the

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first property tax hearing

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group.

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Um, I will take the role of

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Romer present.

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Uh.

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Senator Manovinos.

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Present. Uh, Senator Buxton.

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Absent, but I did talk to him

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yesterday, so he is coming,

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coming, uh, Representative

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Spiegelman.

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Thank you.

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Uh, Gina Jennings here.

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here, Susan Durham.

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Uh, David Del Grande? Yeah.

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Michael Smith or his proxy?

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Rebecca Goldsmith?

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Here, here. Bob Older.

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Yeah Richard Morse.

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Absent Sydney Grosnickel? Yeah,

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yeah.

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Yeah,

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and Justin Imus.

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Here present. OK.

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Having a quorum being present at

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Here present. OK.

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Having a quorum being present,

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this meeting is now in session.

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Um, we don't have minutes to

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approve or anything like that,

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so we're, we're just going to

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approve or anything like that,

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so we're, we're just gonna head

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right into it. Um, first, I want

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to thank everyone. I

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My uh previous job, I've worked

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in systems integration and

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system software development my

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whole life. And um I always

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acknowledged at the beginning of

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projects that I recognize you

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have a whole job outside of

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this, um, that keeps you very,

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very busy, and this is just

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added on to it. I also recognize

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that for many of you,

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You may be on two property tax

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working groups that are being

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held this year. Um, and so, you

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know, I want to thank you for

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that and, and thank you, um.

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I do hope I know, um, we do have

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the hybrid solution right now. I

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do hope we can be in person as

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much as possible, um, mainly

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because this is a short working

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group we're meeting every 2

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weeks. I understand that, um.

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But

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I, and I'm sure all of you feel

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the same way. Senator Wetton,

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present.

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Hi, come on over.

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Susan,

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do not want this dragging out

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forever. Definitely don't want

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this, um, you know, dragging

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out, um, so which is why the

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every two weeks we really wanted

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to, you can.

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Wow. I think it's an ex.

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I don't know where they are, so

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that's all, OK,

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Wow. I think it's an ex

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I don't know where they are, so

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that's all.

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That that we can really achieve

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as much as possible. So, um,

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just to get us started, have a

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little presentation, and then

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we'll kind of be interactive in

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the middle of it. So first, um,

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this whole working group is, um,

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created by House Concurrent

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Resolution 150 establishing the

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property tax working group,

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Obviously many of you have been

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involved in this process from

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the very beginning, um, and

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understanding that.

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That a lot of the problems that

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we had, um.

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Had perhaps, um, groups taken

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this.

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67 years ago or 5 years ago and

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67 years ago or 5 years ago, um,

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and looked at what those

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statewide standards would be,

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um, you know, maybe we could

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have avoided some of the

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problems that we have now.

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So

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the composition of the working

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group, um, is here. I don't need

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to read it, but we did want

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representation from the General

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Assembly, the county leadership,

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state executive, public and

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business, technical experts, and

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the AG sector. Um, the way we

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set up this working group is we

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can, um, put additional members

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on here, um, and I will talk

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about an additional member that,

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um.

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That has requested to be

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represented. Um, the original

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resolution actually did not

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include the ag sector. Oh,

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Richard Morse is present as

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well. He just said he's muted.

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OK, um, and, uh, I appreciate,

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uh, the, uh, Sydney

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specifically, um, you know,

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reaching out to us and letting

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us know, um.

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I like to say sometimes in New

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Castle County, we can get a

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little.

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Siloed in how we see things,

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which is why I wanted to make

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sure that um the other counties

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are represented and um thank you

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very specifically for, for

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bringing up that, that ag is, is

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a significant um

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Part of the representation that

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we needed to fulfill in, in this

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working group.

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So, uh, the next is really just

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the introduction of the name. So

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I wanted to go around and just

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say your affiliation. Um, we'll

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start with the members present,

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Cindy Romer, uh, chair from the

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House.

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Senator Eric Buxton.

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From right across the street.

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uh, Cross people, Delaware Farm

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Bureau. Good morning, everyone.

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I'm David Del Grande, uh, Chief

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Financial Officer in New Castle

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County.

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Hi,

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Hi, Erin Drysdale over Tay, uh,

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New Castle County County

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Assessor.

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Hi, uh, Elizabeth Keller, County

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Executive's Office.

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Katrina Muir Sussex County

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Finance.

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Gina Jennings, Finance Director

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for Sussex County.

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Yeah.

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OK

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You wanna just call them out.

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Yeah, so we have Representative

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Spiegelman.

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Hello.

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Representative Spiegelman,

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representing Kent and parts of.

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Uh

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Hi, yeah,

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so hi, Representative Spiegelman

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representing Northwestern New

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Castle County and southwestern

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Kent County.

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Uh, Bob Older.

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Bob, can you introduce yourself

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and your affiliation?

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I am Bob Older. I'm with the

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Delaware Small Business Chamber,

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and we're here supporting all

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small businesses in Delaware.

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Thank you.

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Thank you.

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Justin Emers.

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Yeah, Justin Emers. I'm with the

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International Association of

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Assessing Officers. I'm an

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assessment advisor, and I'm here

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to help with assessment related

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questions.

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Deputy Secretary Rebecca

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Goldsmith.

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Good morning, uh, Rebecca

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Goldsmith again, Deputy

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Secretary of Finance, sitting in

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for the secretary. Uh.

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The Durham.

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Uh, OK, um.

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Susan Durham? Oh, she's not

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here.

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I have to reach out to.

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Kent County. Who else is we have

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uh, Senator Speros.

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Hi,

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Senator Spiros Manzovinos, 7th

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Senate District, New Castle

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County.

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Just

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Susan.

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These are the voting numbers.

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Anybody can

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She's great.

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She's like yeah, we're good. OK.

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thank you. So, so the

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expectations of the group, um,

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You can go to the next slide.

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are, um, that we are gonna meet

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You can go to the next slide

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are, um, that we are going to

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meet every 2 weeks, um, send

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your proxy if unable to attend,

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um, communicate changes to the

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chair. Um, I want to engage

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collaboratively in this and

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focus on solutions and provide

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transparency. I will say, I'm a

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little bit of a stickler for

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meetings, um.

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Because I don't want to have

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meetings just to have meetings,

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right?

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So if possible, I really would

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like attendance in person, if

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not possible, y'all are gonna

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hate me, but if you could have

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your cameras on, it's just, I

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want to know that I am somebody

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who reads body language too, and

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I can tend to be a little

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overpowering. I recognize that.

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So I need to know if somebody

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looks like they want to say

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something, and the only way I

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can do that is if you're either

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in person or have your camera

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online. So

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I'll be a little Romer for

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Romer.

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What's that?

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Representative Romer, for those

270
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of us on Zoom, um,

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Rebecca Goldsmith and I were

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just talking. There's no option

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for us to turn our cameras on.

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Correct.

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We will we will work on that.

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That's what this meeting is all

277
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about is working on those

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things. And also, thank you for

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saying that because I was like,

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really, nobody turned their

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cameras off. I mean, I even, I

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like, I, I combed my hair and I

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washed my face to be on camera

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and it doesn't even work. I'm

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very disappointed. We will make

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sure we'll have to figure that

287
00:11:40,353 --> 00:11:40,603
out. I don't know if everyone

288
00:11:40,953 --> 00:11:41,203
needs to be promoted as like

289
00:11:42,519 --> 00:11:42,769
co-host or something like that.

290
00:11:44,219 --> 00:11:44,469
We'll figure that out. Thank you

291
00:11:46,319 --> 00:11:46,569
for saying that. Um, I, I did,

292
00:11:47,053 --> 00:11:47,303
um.

293
00:11:50,219 --> 00:11:50,469
Like I said, I, I, I very early

294
00:11:50,953 --> 00:11:51,203
on in my career, I set a very,

295
00:11:52,553 --> 00:11:52,803
very, very low expectation for

296
00:11:54,553 --> 00:11:54,803
how you look. Like on Zoom, if

297
00:11:56,419 --> 00:11:56,669
I'm on Zoom, I'm like, I

298
00:11:58,586 --> 00:11:58,836
Have your, I don't care if your

299
00:12:00,419 --> 00:12:00,669
hair is wet, like I don't care,

300
00:12:02,486 --> 00:12:02,736
but I know me and I know that I

301
00:12:04,519 --> 00:12:04,769
have to see somebody who's a

302
00:12:06,419 --> 00:12:06,669
little bit more quiet is, is

303
00:12:08,186 --> 00:12:08,436
itching to say something, and I

304
00:12:08,853 --> 00:12:09,103
can kind of only see that. So we

305
00:12:10,386 --> 00:12:10,636
will figure that out for next

306
00:12:12,253 --> 00:12:12,503
time. Thank you for saying that,

307
00:12:12,953 --> 00:12:13,203
um.

308
00:12:13,203 --> 00:12:13,453
Thank you, appreciate that.

309
00:12:16,386 --> 00:12:16,636
Um, OK.

310
00:12:20,219 --> 00:12:20,469
I wanted to talk a little bit

311
00:12:20,786 --> 00:12:21,036
about, I think we all know why

312
00:12:22,486 --> 00:12:22,736
we're here, right? Um, but I did

313
00:12:24,319 --> 00:12:24,569
want to specifically talk about

314
00:12:26,486 --> 00:12:26,736
IAAO and and how that

315
00:12:28,553 --> 00:12:28,803
relationship has grown with the

316
00:12:30,286 --> 00:12:30,536
state, so.

317
00:12:34,219 --> 00:12:34,469
I think one thing we recognized

318
00:12:36,219 --> 00:12:36,469
during the hearings that

319
00:12:36,719 --> 00:12:36,969
happened last year is that there

320
00:12:38,386 --> 00:12:38,636
really is no state level.

321
00:12:40,386 --> 00:12:40,636
Expertise in

322
00:12:44,253 --> 00:12:44,503
In Delaware, um, all of you have

323
00:12:46,319 --> 00:12:46,569
expertise in what you do, but

324
00:12:48,253 --> 00:12:48,503
even this assessment in general,

325
00:12:48,953 --> 00:12:49,203
because we hadn't assessed in so

326
00:12:50,486 --> 00:12:50,736
long, was new for the counties.

327
00:12:54,419 --> 00:12:54,669
And so to be able to have, um,

328
00:12:56,253 --> 00:12:56,503
this international organization

329
00:12:58,453 --> 00:12:58,703
be able to come in and provide

330
00:12:59,153 --> 00:12:59,403
independent.

331
00:13:00,419 --> 00:13:00,669
Standards and recommendations is

332
00:13:02,353 --> 00:13:02,603
really something that we valued

333
00:13:03,053 --> 00:13:03,303
so um.

334
00:13:06,186 --> 00:13:06,436
The state did enter into, I

335
00:13:06,819 --> 00:13:07,069
think it's in the signature

336
00:13:08,253 --> 00:13:08,503
stage right now, um.

337
00:13:10,486 --> 00:13:10,736
In good faith. Justin's joining

338
00:13:12,186 --> 00:13:12,436
us today, but we're, we're

339
00:13:12,786 --> 00:13:13,036
executing that contract right

340
00:13:13,386 --> 00:13:13,636
now.

341
00:13:16,186 --> 00:13:16,436
It was worth the money. We need

342
00:13:18,253 --> 00:13:18,503
to spend that money and time,

343
00:13:20,419 --> 00:13:20,669
Um, Justin and IAA were

344
00:13:20,919 --> 00:13:21,169
extremely

345
00:13:24,419 --> 00:13:24,669
Thoughtful and generous with

346
00:13:26,186 --> 00:13:26,436
their time during last year's

347
00:13:26,853 --> 00:13:27,103
General Assembly answering our

348
00:13:28,453 --> 00:13:28,703
questions when we had it, but we

349
00:13:29,153 --> 00:13:29,403
also wanted to know that we can

350
00:13:30,386 --> 00:13:30,636
lean on them for their expertise

351
00:13:32,319 --> 00:13:32,569
and to, to come up with

352
00:13:32,853 --> 00:13:33,103
solutions, um.

353
00:13:36,186 --> 00:13:36,436
I think, you know, one of the

354
00:13:36,786 --> 00:13:37,036
things we're going to have to

355
00:13:40,319 --> 00:13:40,569
figure out as a group is, you

356
00:13:42,219 --> 00:13:42,469
know, where do we want this

357
00:13:42,753 --> 00:13:43,003
state oversight to lie. A lot of

358
00:13:44,353 --> 00:13:44,603
states will have, um,

359
00:13:46,453 --> 00:13:46,703
An assessment department. Some

360
00:13:48,186 --> 00:13:48,436
of them will have division

361
00:13:50,419 --> 00:13:50,669
revenue, some will have it in,

362
00:13:51,153 --> 00:13:51,403
you know, land use like.

363
00:13:54,353 --> 00:13:54,603
This is for us to create. It's

364
00:13:55,053 --> 00:13:55,303
for us to figure out where it

365
00:13:58,219 --> 00:13:58,469
makes sense. Um, and I, I'm

366
00:13:58,853 --> 00:13:59,103
hoping that with the

367
00:14:00,319 --> 00:14:00,569
collaboration of this group and

368
00:14:02,386 --> 00:14:02,636
then the um expertise of IAAO we

369
00:14:03,086 --> 00:14:03,336
can figure that out.

370
00:14:06,519 --> 00:14:06,769
So, um, they are going to serve

371
00:14:08,419 --> 00:14:08,669
as that independent advisor,

372
00:14:10,453 --> 00:14:10,703
perform a review of the mass

373
00:14:12,453 --> 00:14:12,703
appraisal. One of the things we

374
00:14:14,186 --> 00:14:14,436
identified last

375
00:14:14,519 --> 00:14:14,769
couple of weeks ago.

376
00:14:16,353 --> 00:14:16,603
Just

377
00:14:22,186 --> 00:14:22,436
Susan, no option for a

378
00:14:22,686 --> 00:14:22,936
microphone.

379
00:14:26,219 --> 00:14:26,469
OK, she's good now. Thank you.

380
00:14:26,886 --> 00:14:27,136
Um,

381
00:14:30,353 --> 00:14:30,603
hi, can you hear us? Hi, yes,

382
00:14:30,953 --> 00:14:31,203
Susan.

383
00:14:32,386 --> 00:14:32,636
OK, thank

384
00:14:34,386 --> 00:14:34,636
you.

385
00:14:36,119 --> 00:14:36,369
I appreciate that. Thank you,

386
00:14:36,819 --> 00:14:37,069
Susan, um.

387
00:14:40,353 --> 00:14:40,603
And Susan is from Kent County,

388
00:14:41,053 --> 00:14:41,303
um.

389
00:14:44,219 --> 00:14:44,469
Is that the that that the

390
00:14:44,853 --> 00:14:45,103
reports, and I understand it's

391
00:14:45,519 --> 00:14:45,769
because.

392
00:14:48,186 --> 00:14:48,436
Each of you have individual

393
00:14:48,819 --> 00:14:49,069
contracts with Tyler. There was

394
00:14:50,353 --> 00:14:50,603
different kind of reports and

395
00:14:52,219 --> 00:14:52,469
things that were given. So, uh,

396
00:14:52,919 --> 00:14:53,169
the city of Wilmington was given

397
00:14:54,519 --> 00:14:54,769
um, a full assessment report.

398
00:14:56,186 --> 00:14:56,436
Some of you were just given

399
00:14:58,519 --> 00:14:58,769
data, um, but IAAO is going to

400
00:15:00,386 --> 00:15:00,636
be looking at that, um.

401
00:15:02,419 --> 00:15:02,669
And then they're going to guide

402
00:15:04,319 --> 00:15:04,569
us on those quality standards

403
00:15:10,219 --> 00:15:10,469
for COD, PRD, um, PRB and and

404
00:15:10,853 --> 00:15:11,103
median ratio. They are going to

405
00:15:12,486 --> 00:15:12,736
provide guidance on the CAMA

406
00:15:14,353 --> 00:15:14,603
models developed and the

407
00:15:16,586 --> 00:15:16,836
methodologies and we'll deliver

408
00:15:18,453 --> 00:15:18,703
um some technical input on when

409
00:15:20,353 --> 00:15:20,603
we start to get into draft

410
00:15:22,419 --> 00:15:22,669
legislation form as well, um,

411
00:15:24,253 --> 00:15:24,503
and like I said earlier, really

412
00:15:26,219 --> 00:15:26,469
figuring out where we want this

413
00:15:26,886 --> 00:15:27,136
framework to lie.

414
00:15:28,519 --> 00:15:28,769
Um.

415
00:15:32,286 --> 00:15:32,536
The working group's authority is

416
00:15:32,919 --> 00:15:33,169
really twofold. We wanna.

417
00:15:36,419 --> 00:15:36,669
Create these statewide standards

418
00:15:38,286 --> 00:15:38,536
to ensure, um, future

419
00:15:40,453 --> 00:15:40,703
certifications are, are of, uh,

420
00:15:41,119 --> 00:15:41,369
the

421
00:15:44,253 --> 00:15:44,503
Meeting the guidelines that that

422
00:15:46,319 --> 00:15:46,569
the state will set, but we also

423
00:15:47,019 --> 00:15:47,269
want to preserve that county

424
00:15:50,286 --> 00:15:50,536
autonomy. So, um, we want you to

425
00:15:51,019 --> 00:15:51,269
be.

426
00:15:52,319 --> 00:15:52,569
Forthcoming with your feedback.

427
00:15:56,253 --> 00:15:56,503
I can guarantee you at no point

428
00:15:56,919 --> 00:15:57,169
has anyone.

429
00:15:58,219 --> 00:15:58,469
In the state said,

430
00:16:02,186 --> 00:16:02,436
We should do this ourselves. So

431
00:16:02,886 --> 00:16:03,136
there is no desire. Maybe you

432
00:16:04,353 --> 00:16:04,603
have a desire, but there's no

433
00:16:06,219 --> 00:16:06,469
desire for us to take this

434
00:16:06,786 --> 00:16:07,036
under, um.

435
00:16:10,419 --> 00:16:10,669
State control, um, it really is

436
00:16:12,253 --> 00:16:12,503
more about, um, setting up

437
00:16:14,286 --> 00:16:14,536
standards and allowing the local

438
00:16:16,253 --> 00:16:16,503
counties to have that autonomy.

439
00:16:20,286 --> 00:16:20,536
Um, we also are going to talk

440
00:16:22,286 --> 00:16:22,536
about, um, statutory legislation

441
00:16:24,419 --> 00:16:24,669
versus, uh, regulatory,

442
00:16:24,953 --> 00:16:25,203
um.

443
00:16:26,553 --> 00:16:26,803
Um,

444
00:16:28,519 --> 00:16:28,769
you know, there's some things

445
00:16:30,386 --> 00:16:30,636
we're going to want to put in

446
00:16:32,386 --> 00:16:32,636
state law. But there's other

447
00:16:34,286 --> 00:16:34,536
things that maybe make more

448
00:16:34,853 --> 00:16:35,103
sense under regulations so that

449
00:16:36,553 --> 00:16:36,803
every time we learn something

450
00:16:37,153 --> 00:16:37,403
new or

451
00:16:40,386 --> 00:16:40,636
You know, the models evolve or

452
00:16:44,219 --> 00:16:44,469
the the landscape of the area

453
00:16:44,786 --> 00:16:45,036
evolves that we don't have to

454
00:16:46,319 --> 00:16:46,569
come back to the General

455
00:16:48,253 --> 00:16:48,503
Assembly every time to give you

456
00:16:50,253 --> 00:16:50,503
guys the autonomy to be able to

457
00:16:52,353 --> 00:16:52,603
do what you do best. So, um, I

458
00:16:54,286 --> 00:16:54,536
think we're going to figure out

459
00:16:56,319 --> 00:16:56,569
those foundational principles we

460
00:16:58,219 --> 00:16:58,469
have to figure out as a group

461
00:16:58,819 --> 00:16:59,069
where we believe,

462
00:17:00,419 --> 00:17:00,669
that state oversight should

463
00:17:02,353 --> 00:17:02,603
exist, um, and then set up some

464
00:17:04,253 --> 00:17:04,503
of those statutory parameters

465
00:17:06,219 --> 00:17:06,469
again, while allowing the county

466
00:17:06,919 --> 00:17:07,169
to do what it does best, um, so

467
00:17:07,653 --> 00:17:07,903
allowing the state oversight.

468
00:17:10,353 --> 00:17:10,603
While regulating the county so

469
00:17:11,053 --> 00:17:11,303
that so that we're not.

470
00:17:14,253 --> 00:17:14,503
Over legislating.

471
00:17:18,286 --> 00:17:18,536
What the counties do for the

472
00:17:18,853 --> 00:17:19,103
assessments.

473
00:17:20,586 --> 00:17:20,836
So we're going to be looking at

474
00:17:22,453 --> 00:17:22,703
4 core policy buckets. We're

475
00:17:24,319 --> 00:17:24,569
going to be looking at the

476
00:17:26,319 --> 00:17:26,569
methodology, uh, the quality

477
00:17:28,219 --> 00:17:28,469
control, administration, and

478
00:17:30,253 --> 00:17:30,503
transparency. Um, this is again

479
00:17:30,886 --> 00:17:31,136
where we're really going to be

480
00:17:32,419 --> 00:17:32,669
needing feedback from you, what

481
00:17:34,286 --> 00:17:34,536
worked, what didn't work, um,

482
00:17:36,419 --> 00:17:36,669
and also best practices from

483
00:17:36,986 --> 00:17:37,236
IAAO.

484
00:17:42,219 --> 00:17:42,469
And then our deliverable is

485
00:17:44,186 --> 00:17:44,436
really a property tax package

486
00:17:46,253 --> 00:17:46,503
for this, um, and I think

487
00:17:48,319 --> 00:17:48,569
outlining for the General

488
00:17:48,886 --> 00:17:49,136
Assembly and the public.

489
00:17:52,219 --> 00:17:52,469
Why we made the decisions we

490
00:17:52,853 --> 00:17:53,103
made, what we want to be in

491
00:17:54,519 --> 00:17:54,769
legislation, what we want to be

492
00:17:56,386 --> 00:17:56,636
under policy and what that

493
00:17:56,953 --> 00:17:57,203
rollout is going to look like.

494
00:18:06,386 --> 00:18:06,636
Before we get into the actual,

495
00:18:07,019 --> 00:18:07,269
um,

496
00:18:10,253 --> 00:18:10,503
More collaborative conversation,

497
00:18:10,986 --> 00:18:11,236
is there anything anyone wants

498
00:18:12,553 --> 00:18:12,803
to add for that, I think? No,

499
00:18:14,286 --> 00:18:14,536
no, I mean, I'm

500
00:18:18,186 --> 00:18:18,436
interested in seeing where we,

501
00:18:18,919 --> 00:18:19,169
where we move

502
00:18:20,286 --> 00:18:20,536
Say that. No, I'm interested. I

503
00:18:20,953 --> 00:18:21,203
have some thoughts and

504
00:18:21,419 --> 00:18:21,669
questions. I don't think they're

505
00:18:22,419 --> 00:18:22,669
right for now. It's better

506
00:18:24,519 --> 00:18:24,769
served to just follow along.

507
00:18:26,319 --> 00:18:26,569
You're doing great. OK, thanks.

508
00:18:28,319 --> 00:18:28,569
Thanks. And we have a hand

509
00:18:28,919 --> 00:18:29,169
brake.

510
00:18:30,486 --> 00:18:30,736
Oh, Bob.

511
00:18:32,186 --> 00:18:32,436
And,

512
00:18:32,586 --> 00:18:32,836
From the small business chamber.

513
00:18:36,419 --> 00:18:36,669
You should be unmuted, Bob.

514
00:18:46,553 --> 00:18:46,803
All right, now can you hear me?

515
00:18:50,353 --> 00:18:50,603
Oh, there we go. So I have a

516
00:18:52,319 --> 00:18:52,569
question real quick about this.

517
00:18:54,386 --> 00:18:54,636
So, this is not something that's

518
00:18:56,186 --> 00:18:56,436
going to be guaranteed that

519
00:18:56,753 --> 00:18:57,003
legislators are going to pass,

520
00:18:58,319 --> 00:18:58,569
is that right? I mean, these are

521
00:19:00,253 --> 00:19:00,503
just suggestions we're doing,

522
00:19:00,853 --> 00:19:01,103
but is there any guarantee what

523
00:19:02,553 --> 00:19:02,803
we come up with will become part

524
00:19:03,286 --> 00:19:03,536
of the

525
00:19:04,486 --> 00:19:04,736
The standard in the future.

526
00:19:06,419 --> 00:19:06,669
That's correct.

527
00:19:08,453 --> 00:19:08,703
We have to get it passed.

528
00:19:12,453 --> 00:19:12,703
Typically what I will say is,

529
00:19:14,386 --> 00:19:14,636
you know, when I first came to

530
00:19:18,253 --> 00:19:18,503
the legislature 5 years ago, um,

531
00:19:20,386 --> 00:19:20,636
there was this idea that working

532
00:19:21,053 --> 00:19:21,303
groups are where good ideas come

533
00:19:22,453 --> 00:19:22,703
to die, right? That used to be

534
00:19:24,519 --> 00:19:24,769
it. And I will say my

535
00:19:26,453 --> 00:19:26,703
experience, and maybe it's the

536
00:19:28,186 --> 00:19:28,436
way people are doing them now,

537
00:19:28,819 --> 00:19:29,069
but I, I feel like the aging

538
00:19:30,553 --> 00:19:30,803
caucus was a great, or I'm

539
00:19:34,219 --> 00:19:34,469
sorry, caucus on aging, not just

540
00:19:36,219 --> 00:19:36,469
the old, um, it's a great

541
00:19:38,219 --> 00:19:38,469
example of that, that when they

542
00:19:38,853 --> 00:19:39,103
were created, they came out with

543
00:19:40,419 --> 00:19:40,669
legislation and continue to come

544
00:19:41,119 --> 00:19:41,369
out with legislation.

545
00:19:44,453 --> 00:19:44,703
As to how some of our um senior

546
00:19:46,419 --> 00:19:46,669
citizens are are existing in

547
00:19:48,386 --> 00:19:48,636
some of these like nursing homes

548
00:19:50,353 --> 00:19:50,603
and rehabilitation centers and

549
00:19:52,486 --> 00:19:52,736
independent living facilities.

550
00:19:56,319 --> 00:19:56,569
Um, I've seen it with other, uh,

551
00:19:56,986 --> 00:19:57,236
working groups as well, and they

552
00:19:58,353 --> 00:19:58,603
come out with like a slate of

553
00:20:00,586 --> 00:20:00,836
packages, so I, I have seen a

554
00:20:04,253 --> 00:20:04,503
lot better progress, um, on

555
00:20:08,353 --> 00:20:08,603
that. I think that it's not a

556
00:20:10,286 --> 00:20:10,536
guarantee, but I'm extremely

557
00:20:10,919 --> 00:20:11,169
As to how some of our um senior

558
00:20:11,619 --> 00:20:11,869
citizens are are existing in

559
00:20:12,186 --> 00:20:12,436
some of these like nursing homes

560
00:20:12,853 --> 00:20:13,103
and rehabilitation centers and

561
00:20:13,553 --> 00:20:13,803
independent living facilities.

562
00:20:14,253 --> 00:20:14,503
Um, I've seen it with other uh

563
00:20:14,953 --> 00:20:15,203
working groups as well, and they

564
00:20:15,653 --> 00:20:15,903
come out with like a slate of

565
00:20:16,253 --> 00:20:16,503
packages, so I, I have seen a

566
00:20:16,819 --> 00:20:17,069
lot better progress, um, on

567
00:20:17,453 --> 00:20:17,703
that. I think that it's not a

568
00:20:18,119 --> 00:20:18,369
guarantee, but I am extremely

569
00:20:18,753 --> 00:20:19,003
confident that something will

570
00:20:19,419 --> 00:20:19,669
get passed.

571
00:20:19,719 --> 00:20:19,969
Um, and that.

572
00:20:19,969 --> 00:20:20,219
The feedback from this group is,

573
00:20:20,653 --> 00:20:20,903
that's why it's so critical that

574
00:20:21,353 --> 00:20:21,603
we have the right people in the

575
00:20:22,053 --> 00:20:22,303
room.

576
00:20:22,419 --> 00:20:22,669
Does that help?

577
00:20:26,553 --> 00:20:26,803
Yes, it does. Thank you very

578
00:20:27,186 --> 00:20:27,436
much. I appreciate that.

579
00:20:30,386 --> 00:20:30,636
So maybe I would like to just.

580
00:20:32,353 --> 00:20:32,603
Over the next couple of weeks,

581
00:20:36,286 --> 00:20:36,536
whatever it might be, um, one of

582
00:20:40,253 --> 00:20:40,503
the things that I hope is that

583
00:20:42,219 --> 00:20:42,469
we lean heavily on, we've moved

584
00:20:42,886 --> 00:20:43,136
past the fact of how we got

585
00:20:44,519 --> 00:20:44,769
here, right? We can talk 30

586
00:20:46,353 --> 00:20:46,603
years, 40 years, it's not

587
00:20:48,486 --> 00:20:48,736
relevant anymore. What I hope we

588
00:20:50,519 --> 00:20:50,769
focus on is through the initial

589
00:20:52,386 --> 00:20:52,636
shock of the implementation of

590
00:20:53,086 --> 00:20:53,336
the assessment.

591
00:20:54,253 --> 00:20:54,503
And the

592
00:20:54,653 --> 00:20:54,903
Byproduct of that.

593
00:20:56,419 --> 00:20:56,669
Right.

594
00:21:00,186 --> 00:21:00,436
What were the mistakes that were

595
00:21:00,853 --> 00:21:01,103
made that were curable?

596
00:21:02,553 --> 00:21:02,803
Uh, what are the ones that are

597
00:21:04,553 --> 00:21:04,803
out there that are still left

598
00:21:06,553 --> 00:21:06,803
unchecked because I think there

599
00:21:08,386 --> 00:21:08,636
was a lot of work and effort

600
00:21:10,353 --> 00:21:10,603
that went into it, especially

601
00:21:12,553 --> 00:21:12,803
Sussex and Kent. No negative to

602
00:21:14,419 --> 00:21:14,669
Newcastle, you just way more

603
00:21:16,386 --> 00:21:16,636
complicated is what it appears

604
00:21:18,319 --> 00:21:18,569
in a little later than the

605
00:21:18,886 --> 00:21:19,136
process we had.

606
00:21:22,219 --> 00:21:22,469
So I think there's a lot of

607
00:21:22,819 --> 00:21:23,069
value in listening to books. I'm

608
00:21:24,386 --> 00:21:24,636
happy Susan Dorham's on, cause I

609
00:21:26,419 --> 00:21:26,669
know she's a go to person for

610
00:21:27,019 --> 00:21:27,269
me.

611
00:21:30,319 --> 00:21:30,569
But I think there's going to be

612
00:21:32,386 --> 00:21:32,636
value in the current system that

613
00:21:34,253 --> 00:21:34,503
we have now that the initial

614
00:21:34,853 --> 00:21:35,103
shock is gone.

615
00:21:38,253 --> 00:21:38,503
In that system, what actually is

616
00:21:38,953 --> 00:21:39,203
working.

617
00:21:40,486 --> 00:21:40,736
What are some things you need to

618
00:21:42,453 --> 00:21:42,703
assist on, and then what is it

619
00:21:43,153 --> 00:21:43,403
that we can do.

620
00:21:46,419 --> 00:21:46,669
Acrossed all three versus

621
00:21:47,019 --> 00:21:47,269
remaining independent.

622
00:21:48,319 --> 00:21:48,569
Right.

623
00:21:50,419 --> 00:21:50,669
That that's kind of what I just

624
00:21:52,319 --> 00:21:52,569
wanted to initially say at the

625
00:21:54,153 --> 00:21:54,403
beginning here. No, I, I

626
00:21:54,686 --> 00:21:54,936
completely agree with you. I

627
00:21:56,353 --> 00:21:56,603
mean, I, you know, uh, we are

628
00:21:58,219 --> 00:21:58,469
going to talk about a little bit

629
00:21:58,919 --> 00:21:59,169
of lessons learned, but mostly

630
00:22:00,553 --> 00:22:00,803
to make sure that IAAO is um

631
00:22:04,253 --> 00:22:04,503
On board, but it's not to beat a

632
00:22:06,253 --> 00:22:06,503
dead horse at all, because

633
00:22:08,353 --> 00:22:08,603
agreed, like we, um, and you

634
00:22:10,219 --> 00:22:10,469
know, it's, it's interesting to

635
00:22:10,853 --> 00:22:11,103
talk about like what happened in

636
00:22:14,186 --> 00:22:14,436
the aftermath, because it is,

637
00:22:16,219 --> 00:22:16,469
and that's more of a political

638
00:22:16,886 --> 00:22:17,136
discussion and a policy

639
00:22:17,419 --> 00:22:17,669
discussion, but,

640
00:22:20,353 --> 00:22:20,603
When there is a public outcry

641
00:22:22,453 --> 00:22:22,703
for changes, um, reactionary

642
00:22:24,386 --> 00:22:24,636
policy versus really well

643
00:22:26,253 --> 00:22:26,503
thought out and, and we had a

644
00:22:28,319 --> 00:22:28,569
lot of conversations, um, very,

645
00:22:30,253 --> 00:22:30,503
very specifically about the city

646
00:22:30,953 --> 00:22:31,203
of Wilmington. And it

647
00:22:32,353 --> 00:22:32,603
Really took.

648
00:22:34,553 --> 00:22:34,803
IAAO having a conversation

649
00:22:35,153 --> 00:22:35,403
because

650
00:22:38,186 --> 00:22:38,436
Full transparency. Like I just

651
00:22:38,819 --> 00:22:39,069
wanted to fix it. I was like,

652
00:22:40,319 --> 00:22:40,569
we've got to fix this. We've got

653
00:22:40,986 --> 00:22:41,236
to fix this. And,

654
00:22:44,419 --> 00:22:44,669
Rather than trying to, you know,

655
00:22:46,553 --> 00:22:46,803
shove a circle into a square and

656
00:22:48,319 --> 00:22:48,569
being like, no, we're going to

657
00:22:50,319 --> 00:22:50,569
fix this, we realized that the

658
00:22:52,153 --> 00:22:52,403
foundation had to be fixed and

659
00:22:52,786 --> 00:22:53,036
the structure had to be fixed,

660
00:22:54,353 --> 00:22:54,603
and if we have those guidelines

661
00:22:56,219 --> 00:22:56,469
then then we'll have better

662
00:22:56,819 --> 00:22:57,069
quality of the assessments

663
00:22:58,419 --> 00:22:58,669
moving forward. So the

664
00:23:00,353 --> 00:23:00,603
assessments are what they are.

665
00:23:01,019 --> 00:23:01,269
We're here now.

666
00:23:04,386 --> 00:23:04,636
Moving forward, what have we

667
00:23:06,153 --> 00:23:06,403
learned? What are we dealing

668
00:23:06,719 --> 00:23:06,969
with now today still,

669
00:23:08,519 --> 00:23:08,769
Um-hum. Um, what is it that

670
00:23:10,386 --> 00:23:10,636
actually maybe is working even

671
00:23:12,286 --> 00:23:12,536
if it does stink. This is a crap

672
00:23:14,186 --> 00:23:14,436
sandwich. I mean, you had to eat

673
00:23:16,286 --> 00:23:16,536
it. It is what it is, but given

674
00:23:16,986 --> 00:23:17,236
that.

675
00:23:17,236 --> 00:23:17,486
Moving forward,

676
00:23:20,286 --> 00:23:20,536
What is it that, you know, we

677
00:23:22,319 --> 00:23:22,569
can massage and improve on, and

678
00:23:24,286 --> 00:23:24,536
then maybe what are the outliers

679
00:23:24,953 --> 00:23:25,203
that are still getting us, you

680
00:23:26,419 --> 00:23:26,669
know, kind of hung up. I mean,

681
00:23:28,286 --> 00:23:28,536
I'll just throw one out there.

682
00:23:28,986 --> 00:23:29,236
We need to have a serious

683
00:23:30,386 --> 00:23:30,636
conversation about every 5

684
00:23:30,953 --> 00:23:31,203
years, the cost, the

685
00:23:32,453 --> 00:23:32,703
effectiveness of that, but I

686
00:23:32,986 --> 00:23:33,236
know I'm getting ahead of

687
00:23:34,353 --> 00:23:34,603
myself. That's OK. That's OK.

688
00:23:34,953 --> 00:23:35,203
That's OK.

689
00:23:36,219 --> 00:23:36,469
Um,

690
00:23:38,286 --> 00:23:38,536
And this is how I want it if

691
00:23:38,919 --> 00:23:39,169
people have feedback, you know,

692
00:23:39,653 --> 00:23:39,903
um.

693
00:23:40,519 --> 00:23:40,769
we do want to have.

694
00:23:42,486 --> 00:23:42,736
Have this give and take so.

695
00:23:46,419 --> 00:23:46,669
Um, so then what we really

696
00:23:48,286 --> 00:23:48,536
wanted to talk about on this

697
00:23:50,253 --> 00:23:50,503
next, and again, this is, I want

698
00:23:50,953 --> 00:23:51,203
this to be very collaborative

699
00:23:51,653 --> 00:23:51,903
is.

700
00:23:54,319 --> 00:23:54,569
Are there missing perspectives

701
00:23:56,319 --> 00:23:56,569
or stakeholders like looking at

702
00:23:58,353 --> 00:23:58,603
this group of people that are,

703
00:24:00,353 --> 00:24:00,603
are on this call, and I wonder.

704
00:24:02,453 --> 00:24:02,703
Does everyone know because we're

705
00:24:04,219 --> 00:24:04,469
not all in person, does everyone

706
00:24:06,219 --> 00:24:06,469
know who's exactly comprised of

707
00:24:06,919 --> 00:24:07,169
this group?

708
00:24:08,519 --> 00:24:08,769
So I can, I can list them. Not

709
00:24:10,353 --> 00:24:10,603
the voting numbers. I didn't

710
00:24:12,219 --> 00:24:12,469
know who they were. So we have

711
00:24:12,853 --> 00:24:13,103
the Senate and House

712
00:24:14,353 --> 00:24:14,603
represented. We have Sussex

713
00:24:18,153 --> 00:24:18,403
County Administrator, um, Gina

714
00:24:20,153 --> 00:24:20,403
Jennings. We have Kent County

715
00:24:22,186 --> 00:24:22,436
Administrator Susan Durham. I, I

716
00:24:22,853 --> 00:24:23,103
realized that's fine. Uh, New

717
00:24:24,586 --> 00:24:24,836
Castle County Executive designee

718
00:24:26,586 --> 00:24:26,836
David Del Grande, uh, Secretary

719
00:24:28,519 --> 00:24:28,769
of Finance designee, uh, Rebecca

720
00:24:29,219 --> 00:24:29,469
Goldsmith.

721
00:24:32,219 --> 00:24:32,469
Delaware Small Business Chamber

722
00:24:34,219 --> 00:24:34,469
is represented. We have Rich

723
00:24:36,319 --> 00:24:36,569
Morris is our taxpayer advocate,

724
00:24:38,386 --> 00:24:38,636
OK? He, um, just a little bit of

725
00:24:40,319 --> 00:24:40,569
background as well, he was with

726
00:24:42,286 --> 00:24:42,536
Classy, um, so he's, he's

727
00:24:44,353 --> 00:24:44,603
definitely more of a housing,

728
00:24:46,286 --> 00:24:46,536
um, a lot of housing knowledge

729
00:24:48,586 --> 00:24:48,836
in that. um, Sydney Gross Nicol

730
00:24:50,486 --> 00:24:50,736
from the Farm Bureau, um, and

731
00:24:52,486 --> 00:24:52,736
then we have Justin Emmers from

732
00:24:54,419 --> 00:24:54,669
the IAAO. It has been requested

733
00:24:56,319 --> 00:24:56,569
that we add somebody from the

734
00:24:58,353 --> 00:24:58,603
city of Wilmington, um, on it

735
00:24:58,953 --> 00:24:59,203
just because we do have, um,

736
00:25:02,219 --> 00:25:02,469
The farm bureaus so we have like

737
00:25:04,286 --> 00:25:04,536
we have small business but um we

738
00:25:06,286 --> 00:25:06,536
don't have specific

739
00:25:06,719 --> 00:25:06,969
representation from our biggest

740
00:25:08,353 --> 00:25:08,603
city, but I opened that up to

741
00:25:08,986 --> 00:25:09,236
the group for conversation.

742
00:25:12,353 --> 00:25:12,603
Uh, maybe.

743
00:25:14,386 --> 00:25:14,636
Jeff, uh, Representative

744
00:25:16,353 --> 00:25:16,603
Spiegelman might have a thought

745
00:25:16,953 --> 00:25:17,203
on this, but

746
00:25:18,386 --> 00:25:18,636
Someone locally in the

747
00:25:20,353 --> 00:25:20,603
assessment world. I know he is,

748
00:25:22,286 --> 00:25:22,536
but he might wanna have an

749
00:25:22,919 --> 00:25:23,169
assist, somebody like a Phil

750
00:25:24,353 --> 00:25:24,603
McGinnis or something, but I'm

751
00:25:26,386 --> 00:25:26,636
asking you specifically, uh,

752
00:25:32,319 --> 00:25:32,569
Jeff, if you think that's

753
00:25:32,919 --> 00:25:33,169
needed.

754
00:25:36,186 --> 00:25:36,436
Yeah, um, I was just about to

755
00:25:36,786 --> 00:25:37,036
get up and, and go get myself a

756
00:25:40,353 --> 00:25:40,603
cup of coffee. Um, but yes, um,

757
00:25:40,986 --> 00:25:41,236
I do think

758
00:25:46,219 --> 00:25:46,469
That somebody who is a licensed

759
00:25:46,919 --> 00:25:47,169
appraiser, um.

760
00:25:50,453 --> 00:25:50,703
If not as a voting member, then

761
00:25:51,086 --> 00:25:51,336
certainly we should bring

762
00:25:54,453 --> 00:25:54,703
One or two of them in to show

763
00:25:56,219 --> 00:25:56,469
some of the problems.

764
00:26:00,353 --> 00:26:00,603
that have caused so many

765
00:26:00,953 --> 00:26:01,203
appeals.

766
00:26:04,186 --> 00:26:04,436
Um, in, I mean, obviously, in

767
00:26:04,853 --> 00:26:05,103
particular, we're still working

768
00:26:08,419 --> 00:26:08,669
through about 54 or 5500 appeals

769
00:26:10,553 --> 00:26:10,803
in New Castle County. Um, so I,

770
00:26:12,553 --> 00:26:12,803
I do think bringing in somebody

771
00:26:13,186 --> 00:26:13,436
who can

772
00:26:16,386 --> 00:26:16,636
Uh, I don't know whether voting

773
00:26:18,219 --> 00:26:18,469
member or not, because at some

774
00:26:20,286 --> 00:26:20,536
point, a task force or a working

775
00:26:22,286 --> 00:26:22,536
group gets bloated. Uh, but I do

776
00:26:22,953 --> 00:26:23,203
think bringing in somebody who

777
00:26:24,619 --> 00:26:24,869
can show us, hey, this is what

778
00:26:26,519 --> 00:26:26,769
Tyler did and why underus Pat,

779
00:26:30,386 --> 00:26:30,636
and this is why it's problematic

780
00:26:32,486 --> 00:26:32,736
when, when it hits the local

781
00:26:34,386 --> 00:26:34,636
individual property owner and

782
00:26:36,353 --> 00:26:36,603
why you're seeing so many

783
00:26:36,919 --> 00:26:37,169
appeals and why so many appeals

784
00:26:38,586 --> 00:26:38,836
are being overturned. I think

785
00:26:40,519 --> 00:26:40,769
that would be an important thing

786
00:26:42,586 --> 00:26:42,836
fairly early in our experience.

787
00:26:46,353 --> 00:26:46,603
This working group in order to

788
00:26:46,986 --> 00:26:47,236
talk about quality control.

789
00:26:50,386 --> 00:26:50,636
On the Wilmington thing and I,

790
00:26:52,219 --> 00:26:52,469
I, and I see Speros put his hand

791
00:26:52,953 --> 00:26:53,203
up when, when we mentioned the

792
00:26:54,419 --> 00:26:54,669
word, uh, when we mentioned the

793
00:26:56,219 --> 00:26:56,469
Wilmington thing. uh,

794
00:26:56,753 --> 00:26:57,003
Representative Romer, if you'll

795
00:27:00,453 --> 00:27:00,703
recall, during the hearings last

796
00:27:01,186 --> 00:27:01,436
summer or the summer before at

797
00:27:02,519 --> 00:27:02,769
this point, I don't remember.

798
00:27:03,119 --> 00:27:03,369
Um,

799
00:27:08,286 --> 00:27:08,536
One of the biggest points of

800
00:27:08,886 --> 00:27:09,136
contention.

801
00:27:12,186 --> 00:27:12,436
was the finger pointing that

802
00:27:12,786 --> 00:27:13,036
went on between the city of

803
00:27:14,486 --> 00:27:14,736
Wilmington and the county and

804
00:27:16,419 --> 00:27:16,669
Tyler, when it came to like

805
00:27:17,019 --> 00:27:17,269
building permits.

806
00:27:20,353 --> 00:27:20,603
Um, so if that was such a huge

807
00:27:22,219 --> 00:27:22,469
point of contention during

808
00:27:24,353 --> 00:27:24,603
reassessment. I do think having

809
00:27:25,019 --> 00:27:25,269
somebody from the city.

810
00:27:28,219 --> 00:27:28,469
It's probably an important part

811
00:27:28,953 --> 00:27:29,203
of this.

812
00:27:30,419 --> 00:27:30,669
And with that, I'll go get a cup

813
00:27:32,219 --> 00:27:32,469
of coffee. Thank, thank you.

814
00:27:34,553 --> 00:27:34,803
I appreciate that, Jeff,

815
00:27:36,319 --> 00:27:36,569
or Representative Spiegelman,

816
00:27:36,986 --> 00:27:37,236
uh, Senator Lancevinas.

817
00:27:40,419 --> 00:27:40,669
Uh, thank, thank you, um, uh,

818
00:27:42,186 --> 00:27:42,436
Representative Spiegelman can

819
00:27:42,853 --> 00:27:43,103
send me a cup, that'd be

820
00:27:43,319 --> 00:27:43,569
awesome, um.

821
00:27:46,353 --> 00:27:46,603
Anyway, uh, you mentioned the

822
00:27:48,219 --> 00:27:48,469
city. I think we also need to

823
00:27:48,853 --> 00:27:49,103
take a look at the smaller

824
00:27:52,286 --> 00:27:52,536
municipalities too,

825
00:27:52,719 --> 00:27:52,969
because I do know that, you

826
00:27:54,186 --> 00:27:54,436
know, I do have the town of

827
00:27:56,253 --> 00:27:56,503
Ellesmere and the town of

828
00:27:58,419 --> 00:27:58,669
Newport, um, you know, they are,

829
00:28:00,253 --> 00:28:00,503
they are affected by this as

830
00:28:02,186 --> 00:28:02,436
well with these assessments, and

831
00:28:04,186 --> 00:28:04,436
they, you know, are operating at

832
00:28:04,853 --> 00:28:05,103
a little different level than

833
00:28:06,286 --> 00:28:06,536
the city of Wilmington. Again,

834
00:28:06,953 --> 00:28:07,203
no disrespect to the city of

835
00:28:08,553 --> 00:28:08,803
Wilmington, but I think having

836
00:28:10,486 --> 00:28:10,736
their perspective of the smaller

837
00:28:12,653 --> 00:28:12,903
municipalities as this works

838
00:28:13,219 --> 00:28:13,469
through, uh.

839
00:28:16,553 --> 00:28:16,803
Especially as we consider, um,

840
00:28:18,486 --> 00:28:18,736
you know, we have residential

841
00:28:20,453 --> 00:28:20,703
and nonresidential rates, and

842
00:28:22,186 --> 00:28:22,436
we've done that, and that

843
00:28:22,686 --> 00:28:22,936
certainly has had an impact. So

844
00:28:24,253 --> 00:28:24,503
I would just think, you know,

845
00:28:26,419 --> 00:28:26,669
just offer that idea. Uh, the

846
00:28:28,219 --> 00:28:28,469
second thing too is, is there

847
00:28:30,253 --> 00:28:30,503
any way to have an average

848
00:28:32,319 --> 00:28:32,569
homeowner. I know we have a

849
00:28:34,319 --> 00:28:34,569
taxpayer advocate on the group,

850
00:28:36,486 --> 00:28:36,736
but I think, you know, we, you

851
00:28:38,353 --> 00:28:38,603
know, either from a senior's

852
00:28:38,919 --> 00:28:39,169
perspective, and I do appreciate

853
00:28:40,653 --> 00:28:40,903
the shout out to the caucus on

854
00:28:42,786 --> 00:28:43,036
Aging, not the aging caucus. Um,

855
00:28:43,419 --> 00:28:43,669
but I think

856
00:28:46,319 --> 00:28:46,569
You know, having someone who is

857
00:28:50,219 --> 00:28:50,469
actually cutting the check or

858
00:28:52,286 --> 00:28:52,536
who is, you know, feeling this

859
00:28:54,186 --> 00:28:54,436
and has their own perspective

860
00:28:56,186 --> 00:28:56,436
Again, nothing, you know, not

861
00:28:56,853 --> 00:28:57,103
that the advocate taxpayer

862
00:28:58,153 --> 00:28:58,403
advocate wouldn't be sharing

863
00:29:00,219 --> 00:29:00,469
that, but you know, as we hear

864
00:29:02,219 --> 00:29:02,469
these, as we've all taken phone

865
00:29:04,219 --> 00:29:04,469
calls from our constituents, you

866
00:29:04,853 --> 00:29:05,103
know, there's certainly, you

867
00:29:06,353 --> 00:29:06,603
know, something different, a

868
00:29:08,286 --> 00:29:08,536
very different perspective from

869
00:29:08,986 --> 00:29:09,236
the folks who

870
00:29:12,219 --> 00:29:12,469
are sharing their stories

871
00:29:12,786 --> 00:29:13,036
directly. So again, you know, to

872
00:29:13,553 --> 00:29:13,803
Representative Spiegelman's

873
00:29:14,119 --> 00:29:14,369
point, we don't.

874
00:29:16,519 --> 00:29:16,769
want to make this too too big of

875
00:29:18,153 --> 00:29:18,403
a task force, so it's

876
00:29:20,219 --> 00:29:20,469
unworkable, but I think those

877
00:29:20,853 --> 00:29:21,103
kind of perspectives would be

878
00:29:22,653 --> 00:29:22,903
very helpful and in all this,

879
00:29:26,219 --> 00:29:26,469
especially if we are looking for

880
00:29:26,853 --> 00:29:27,103
somebody who's paying, maybe

881
00:29:28,386 --> 00:29:28,636
somebody who is a senior

882
00:29:30,386 --> 00:29:30,636
as well. So thank you.

883
00:29:36,386 --> 00:29:36,636
You know, I'll be honest, I, I

884
00:29:38,286 --> 00:29:38,536
don't think the task force is

885
00:29:40,253 --> 00:29:40,503
too big right now. Like, I'm,

886
00:29:40,853 --> 00:29:41,103
oh, and I'll, I'll turn over to

887
00:29:44,219 --> 00:29:44,469
David. So right now, outside of

888
00:29:48,319 --> 00:29:48,569
the legislative, um, 1234567,

889
00:29:49,019 --> 00:29:49,269
You know, I'll be honest, I, I

890
00:29:49,619 --> 00:29:49,869
don't think the task force is

891
00:29:50,219 --> 00:29:50,469
too big right now. Like, I'm,

892
00:29:50,786 --> 00:29:51,036
oh, and I'll, I'll turn over to

893
00:29:51,486 --> 00:29:51,736
David. So right now, outside of

894
00:29:52,186 --> 00:29:52,436
the legislative, um, 12345678

895
00:29:52,753 --> 00:29:53,003
members on it.

896
00:29:53,053 --> 00:29:53,303
Based on what I'm hearing,

897
00:29:54,219 --> 00:29:54,469
adding maybe 89, 10, like an

898
00:29:56,153 --> 00:29:56,403
additional 4 or 5 I don't think

899
00:29:58,319 --> 00:29:58,569
is a problem. um I do wanna make

900
00:29:59,053 --> 00:29:59,303
sure that.

901
00:29:59,319 --> 00:29:59,569
Um,

902
00:30:02,286 --> 00:30:02,536
You know, if we have a smaller

903
00:30:04,286 --> 00:30:04,536
municipality as well that we

904
00:30:06,219 --> 00:30:06,469
make sure, or as we're doing all

905
00:30:06,953 --> 00:30:07,203
of these things that we're just

906
00:30:08,353 --> 00:30:08,603
making sure that Kent and Sussex

907
00:30:10,319 --> 00:30:10,569
are equally represented based on

908
00:30:11,019 --> 00:30:11,269
um.

909
00:30:14,386 --> 00:30:14,636
on the group, um, I'm OK with

910
00:30:15,019 --> 00:30:15,269
that before we.

911
00:30:18,186 --> 00:30:18,436
David, don't, yeah,

912
00:30:20,219 --> 00:30:20,469
for, for New Castle County, I

913
00:30:20,819 --> 00:30:21,069
think having a lead assessor

914
00:30:24,219 --> 00:30:24,469
that's a certified assessor on

915
00:30:24,853 --> 00:30:25,103
the committee would be

916
00:30:26,519 --> 00:30:26,769
beneficial.

917
00:30:26,853 --> 00:30:27,103
That person experienced the

918
00:30:28,553 --> 00:30:28,803
whole reassessment process, is

919
00:30:30,653 --> 00:30:30,903
certified and licensed to

920
00:30:32,453 --> 00:30:32,703
understand the, the legitimate

921
00:30:34,486 --> 00:30:34,736
uh answers and concerns on how

922
00:30:36,553 --> 00:30:36,803
to, what, how to approach them.

923
00:30:38,653 --> 00:30:38,903
So I think having them uh added

924
00:30:40,586 --> 00:30:40,836
to the committee would be a huge

925
00:30:41,286 --> 00:30:41,536
benefit for us.

926
00:30:44,219 --> 00:30:44,469
That's great.

927
00:30:48,219 --> 00:30:48,469
OK, so what I heard is City of

928
00:30:50,486 --> 00:30:50,736
Wilmington, an assessor, smaller

929
00:30:52,386 --> 00:30:52,636
municipalities, maybe 1 or 2.

930
00:30:56,419 --> 00:30:56,669
Maybe one from each county.

931
00:30:58,186 --> 00:30:58,436
You

932
00:30:58,436 --> 00:30:58,686
respectfully ask the lead local

933
00:30:58,953 --> 00:30:59,203
government and maybe they can.

934
00:31:00,319 --> 00:31:00,569
OK,

935
00:31:00,569 --> 00:31:00,819
that was gonna be my thought as

936
00:31:01,219 --> 00:31:01,469
well.

937
00:31:02,586 --> 00:31:02,836
They probably turn the grass.

938
00:31:06,219 --> 00:31:06,469
And then an average homeowner.

939
00:31:08,419 --> 00:31:08,669
Anyone know what an average?

940
00:31:12,486 --> 00:31:12,736
Technically we all are, right?

941
00:31:14,486 --> 00:31:14,736
Well, I am.

942
00:31:16,386 --> 00:31:16,636
I know, right? We are, we're

943
00:31:17,019 --> 00:31:17,269
all, um.

944
00:31:20,286 --> 00:31:20,536
How about this? You don't have

945
00:31:22,186 --> 00:31:22,436
to think about it right now, but

946
00:31:22,919 --> 00:31:23,169
let's do we just take a vote or.

947
00:31:24,519 --> 00:31:24,769
I'll be honest, I've never run a

948
00:31:26,219 --> 00:31:26,469
property. I've never run a

949
00:31:26,753 --> 00:31:27,003
working group, so I'm like

950
00:31:28,419 --> 00:31:28,669
unsure sometimes of of where we

951
00:31:30,386 --> 00:31:30,636
need to vote. Um, I don't think

952
00:31:34,353 --> 00:31:34,603
we necessarily have names right

953
00:31:36,419 --> 00:31:36,669
now, but we can email those um

954
00:31:37,053 --> 00:31:37,303
within the next like maybe if

955
00:31:38,253 --> 00:31:38,503
everyone can get me any names.

956
00:31:42,186 --> 00:31:42,436
Um, maybe by Friday of people

957
00:31:42,819 --> 00:31:43,069
that you would maybe suggest,

958
00:31:43,419 --> 00:31:43,669
um.

959
00:31:46,419 --> 00:31:46,669
We can, we can move that way,

960
00:31:50,353 --> 00:31:50,603
um, do I, I don't know.

961
00:31:52,419 --> 00:31:52,669
Circle back, we'll circle back

962
00:31:54,419 --> 00:31:54,669
on the votes. Um, we may have to

963
00:31:56,186 --> 00:31:56,436
take a vote to add additional

964
00:31:56,819 --> 00:31:57,069
members to the group, um, but

965
00:31:57,419 --> 00:31:57,669
for right now.

966
00:32:00,453 --> 00:32:00,703
Can I make a comment real quick?

967
00:32:01,186 --> 00:32:01,436
Yes.

968
00:32:04,353 --> 00:32:04,603
I'd be very cautious inviting

969
00:32:06,419 --> 00:32:06,669
one or two small towns. I

970
00:32:08,186 --> 00:32:08,436
understand why you're doing it,

971
00:32:10,253 --> 00:32:10,503
but I'd be cautious of that

972
00:32:10,786 --> 00:32:11,036
cause you're gonna start getting

973
00:32:12,419 --> 00:32:12,669
a lot of the other incorporated

974
00:32:14,186 --> 00:32:14,436
towns, there's a lot of them in

975
00:32:14,853 --> 00:32:15,103
Delaware, they're gonna wish

976
00:32:16,219 --> 00:32:16,469
they were at the table as well.

977
00:32:18,286 --> 00:32:18,536
So, I'd be a little cautious

978
00:32:18,886 --> 00:32:19,136
about inviting one over the

979
00:32:20,386 --> 00:32:20,636
others, because each

980
00:32:22,553 --> 00:32:22,803
One is then gonna want to have a

981
00:32:23,253 --> 00:32:23,503
voice as well.

982
00:32:30,619 --> 00:32:30,869
OK, OK.

983
00:32:34,353 --> 00:32:34,603
Yeah, Bob, Bob, to your point,

984
00:32:35,019 --> 00:32:35,269
that's one of the reasons that

985
00:32:36,519 --> 00:32:36,769
I, and I, I think Senator Buxton

986
00:32:38,419 --> 00:32:38,669
said it, that the, all the

987
00:32:40,253 --> 00:32:40,503
little towns have a trade

988
00:32:42,219 --> 00:32:42,469
association called the League of

989
00:32:42,919 --> 00:32:43,169
Local Governments. And so if we

990
00:32:44,286 --> 00:32:44,536
were to reach out to the League

991
00:32:44,953 --> 00:32:45,203
of Local Governments, we're at

992
00:32:46,353 --> 00:32:46,603
least reaching a trade

993
00:32:48,186 --> 00:32:48,436
association that represents most

994
00:32:50,253 --> 00:32:50,503
of the small towns. And to your

995
00:32:50,919 --> 00:32:51,169
point, that way, nobody feels

996
00:32:51,486 --> 00:32:51,736
left out.

997
00:32:52,419 --> 00:32:52,669
OK.

998
00:32:54,553 --> 00:32:54,803
Uh, yeah, I think the League of

999
00:32:55,219 --> 00:32:55,469
Local Governments could be a.

1000
00:32:58,486 --> 00:32:58,736
Yeah, OK,

1001
00:33:00,619 --> 00:33:00,869
as opposed to picking specifics,

1002
00:33:02,453 --> 00:33:02,703
OK. Just explain to them and

1003
00:33:03,019 --> 00:33:03,269
if they could offer.

1004
00:33:06,319 --> 00:33:06,569
Someone to be a representative.

1005
00:33:06,953 --> 00:33:07,203
OK.

1006
00:33:08,286 --> 00:33:08,536
Or 2.

1007
00:33:12,286 --> 00:33:12,536
One additional thing that came

1008
00:33:14,219 --> 00:33:14,469
up is the recorder of deeds.

1009
00:33:16,253 --> 00:33:16,503
Does anyone have thoughts or

1010
00:33:16,886 --> 00:33:17,136
let's have a conversation about

1011
00:33:18,319 --> 00:33:18,569
that. I didn't really understand

1012
00:33:20,219 --> 00:33:20,469
that the recorder of deeds is

1013
00:33:22,219 --> 00:33:22,469
what was explained to me is that

1014
00:33:22,919 --> 00:33:23,169
you get a lot of your data from

1015
00:33:24,519 --> 00:33:24,769
the recorder of deeds. Is that

1016
00:33:26,353 --> 00:33:26,603
accurate? And are there issues

1017
00:33:28,253 --> 00:33:28,503
with the data that you get from

1018
00:33:28,953 --> 00:33:29,203
the reporter of deeds?

1019
00:33:30,486 --> 00:33:30,736
No,

1020
00:33:32,286 --> 00:33:32,536
we have no issues. You have no

1021
00:33:32,953 --> 00:33:33,203
issues.

1022
00:33:36,486 --> 00:33:36,736
I, I'm sorry, I have to

1023
00:33:38,453 --> 00:33:38,703
disagree. Uh, when, when we do

1024
00:33:39,053 --> 00:33:39,303
appraisals,

1025
00:33:42,353 --> 00:33:42,603
Um, a lot of times the recorder

1026
00:33:42,986 --> 00:33:43,236
of deeds information.

1027
00:33:44,386 --> 00:33:44,636
Um,

1028
00:33:48,386 --> 00:33:48,636
Is, is OK, and a lot of times

1029
00:33:50,586 --> 00:33:50,836
once we do the calculation of a

1030
00:33:54,319 --> 00:33:54,569
property size, either land size

1031
00:33:56,353 --> 00:33:56,603
or physical improvement size,

1032
00:33:58,353 --> 00:33:58,603
they are not accurate. And so a

1033
00:33:59,019 --> 00:33:59,269
lot of it's

1034
00:34:02,153 --> 00:34:02,403
The deed information combined

1035
00:34:04,219 --> 00:34:04,469
with the permit information

1036
00:34:06,453 --> 00:34:06,703
oftentimes can grow or shrink a

1037
00:34:10,286 --> 00:34:10,536
property um significantly when

1038
00:34:12,319 --> 00:34:12,569
it comes to appraisal techno uh

1039
00:34:13,019 --> 00:34:13,269
when it comes to doing the

1040
00:34:14,619 --> 00:34:14,869
appraisal. And if you're doing

1041
00:34:16,453 --> 00:34:16,703
the mass appraisal, you don't

1042
00:34:18,353 --> 00:34:18,603
have the time to drill down into

1043
00:34:19,019 --> 00:34:19,269
each individual property. It's

1044
00:34:20,519 --> 00:34:20,769
kind of the point of a mass

1045
00:34:24,519 --> 00:34:24,769
appraisal. And so, uh, the 3

1046
00:34:26,519 --> 00:34:26,769
reporters of deeds do a really

1047
00:34:28,386 --> 00:34:28,636
good job of getting that

1048
00:34:28,953 --> 00:34:29,203
information kind of to the

1049
00:34:29,553 --> 00:34:29,803
different ways.

1050
00:34:32,286 --> 00:34:32,536
Websites, but a lot of times the

1051
00:34:32,953 --> 00:34:33,203
information just doesn't match

1052
00:34:34,319 --> 00:34:34,569
up with the reality of property.

1053
00:34:38,386 --> 00:34:38,636
Um, sometimes with, so in an

1054
00:34:38,986 --> 00:34:39,236
assessment office.

1055
00:34:42,286 --> 00:34:42,536
A lot of times registered deeds

1056
00:34:44,219 --> 00:34:44,469
is the ones that, that tell the

1057
00:34:46,219 --> 00:34:46,469
assessor, hey, you know, there's

1058
00:34:48,219 --> 00:34:48,469
been a split of this property or

1059
00:34:50,253 --> 00:34:50,503
a combination of the property,

1060
00:34:52,253 --> 00:34:52,503
uh, the property is transferred,

1061
00:34:54,219 --> 00:34:54,469
that kind of thing. So, it's

1062
00:34:56,219 --> 00:34:56,469
kind of the, um, the downline

1063
00:34:56,853 --> 00:34:57,103
from the assessor's office, they

1064
00:34:58,419 --> 00:34:58,669
kind of get some of those, some

1065
00:35:00,353 --> 00:35:00,603
of that information, they still

1066
00:35:01,019 --> 00:35:01,269
have to qualify it and make

1067
00:35:04,219 --> 00:35:04,469
sure, you know, like Jeff said,

1068
00:35:04,853 --> 00:35:05,103
it, it, you know, was accurate

1069
00:35:06,419 --> 00:35:06,669
and that kind of thing, but it,

1070
00:35:08,453 --> 00:35:08,703
it can be an indicator of a

1071
00:35:09,086 --> 00:35:09,336
change with the property.

1072
00:35:12,519 --> 00:35:12,769
Yeah, I mean, I'm, I'm working

1073
00:35:14,353 --> 00:35:14,603
on run right now. In fact, I,

1074
00:35:16,319 --> 00:35:16,569
I, I just brought it up as, as

1075
00:35:18,286 --> 00:35:18,536
the conversation came up, um, to

1076
00:35:20,386 --> 00:35:20,636
your point, Justin, I'm looking

1077
00:35:22,353 --> 00:35:22,603
at one where the deed and the

1078
00:35:22,953 --> 00:35:23,203
assessment say the property

1079
00:35:26,619 --> 00:35:26,869
lines are about 25 ft longer.

1080
00:35:30,419 --> 00:35:30,669
than what they actually are. And

1081
00:35:32,386 --> 00:35:32,636
so there's some issues somewhere

1082
00:35:34,319 --> 00:35:34,569
with the deed versus the actual

1083
00:35:34,986 --> 00:35:35,236
property. And given that the

1084
00:35:36,486 --> 00:35:36,736
property is only a quarter of an

1085
00:35:40,253 --> 00:35:40,503
acre, an extra 25 ft in length

1086
00:35:42,219 --> 00:35:42,469
contributes a significant amount

1087
00:35:42,919 --> 00:35:43,169
to the lot, which means the

1088
00:35:44,353 --> 00:35:44,603
person's being charged more

1089
00:35:46,219 --> 00:35:46,469
proportionately, cause they've

1090
00:35:46,919 --> 00:35:47,169
got a larger lot in a smaller

1091
00:35:47,519 --> 00:35:47,769
neighborhood. So,

1092
00:35:50,319 --> 00:35:50,569
Things like that. I, I do think,

1093
00:35:52,386 --> 00:35:52,636
I do think that deeds office has

1094
00:35:56,219 --> 00:35:56,469
Uh, a part to play in this, in

1095
00:35:56,886 --> 00:35:57,136
this big puzzle. Yeah, and

1096
00:35:58,453 --> 00:35:58,703
sometimes the assessor can go

1097
00:36:00,453 --> 00:36:00,703
back to the, you know, whoever

1098
00:36:02,219 --> 00:36:02,469
filed the deed and say, hey, are

1099
00:36:04,286 --> 00:36:04,536
you sure that this is what you

1100
00:36:06,286 --> 00:36:06,536
wanted to file, um, and so it

1101
00:36:06,953 --> 00:36:07,203
can kind of work as a, a QC

1102
00:36:08,286 --> 00:36:08,536
within the whole process too.

1103
00:36:12,353 --> 00:36:12,603
Susan?

1104
00:36:14,619 --> 00:36:14,869
In Kent County, we wouldn't go

1105
00:36:16,419 --> 00:36:16,669
to the deeds office for that

1106
00:36:18,186 --> 00:36:18,436
kind of information. You go to

1107
00:36:18,819 --> 00:36:19,069
mapping.

1108
00:36:22,219 --> 00:36:22,469
She says.

1109
00:36:24,286 --> 00:36:24,536
So

1110
00:36:26,286 --> 00:36:26,536
how does that happen? So if the

1111
00:36:26,919 --> 00:36:27,169
deed information is wrong.

1112
00:36:30,419 --> 00:36:30,669
Is the information that gets

1113
00:36:32,453 --> 00:36:32,703
sent to the recorder of leads,

1114
00:36:34,286 --> 00:36:34,536
is that

1115
00:36:36,353 --> 00:36:36,603
based on you, like the home

1116
00:36:38,453 --> 00:36:38,703
appraisal the owner paid for,

1117
00:36:39,053 --> 00:36:39,303
like, how does, who does.

1118
00:36:40,553 --> 00:36:40,803
Who fills out that information

1119
00:36:42,253 --> 00:36:42,503
to give to the reporter of

1120
00:36:42,819 --> 00:36:43,069
deeds?

1121
00:36:44,553 --> 00:36:44,803
Well, Cindy, before somebody

1122
00:36:46,386 --> 00:36:46,636
answers that, let me just point

1123
00:36:48,219 --> 00:36:48,469
out you're hitting on the reason

1124
00:36:50,553 --> 00:36:50,803
why a survey is required on all

1125
00:36:52,453 --> 00:36:52,703
properties that are sold in

1126
00:36:54,319 --> 00:36:54,569
Delaware because the surveyor

1127
00:36:56,219 --> 00:36:56,469
will tell you exactly where the

1128
00:36:58,253 --> 00:36:58,503
property lines are. So when the

1129
00:37:00,253 --> 00:37:00,503
property is sold and they update

1130
00:37:02,219 --> 00:37:02,469
the deed, when the attorneys and

1131
00:37:02,853 --> 00:37:03,103
the surveyors and everything is

1132
00:37:04,219 --> 00:37:04,469
looking through the deed, they

1133
00:37:04,919 --> 00:37:05,169
can actually match up and

1134
00:37:06,586 --> 00:37:06,836
correct any errors, but a lot of

1135
00:37:08,653 --> 00:37:08,903
times in older properties where

1136
00:37:10,586 --> 00:37:10,836
that hasn't happened in a long

1137
00:37:12,519 --> 00:37:12,769
time, that's where you begin to

1138
00:37:13,219 --> 00:37:13,469
run into a lot of problems.

1139
00:37:16,219 --> 00:37:16,469
and those older properties,

1140
00:37:16,786 --> 00:37:17,036
those legacy ones,

1141
00:37:18,319 --> 00:37:18,569
are the ones that we saw such

1142
00:37:20,319 --> 00:37:20,569
massive increases in New Castle

1143
00:37:21,019 --> 00:37:21,269
County.

1144
00:37:24,619 --> 00:37:24,869
So to piggyback on what Susan

1145
00:37:26,553 --> 00:37:26,803
said, Sussex, it's not recorded

1146
00:37:28,419 --> 00:37:28,669
deeds. They don't interpret

1147
00:37:30,253 --> 00:37:30,503
anything. They're just required

1148
00:37:32,219 --> 00:37:32,469
by law to file whatever is given

1149
00:37:32,853 --> 00:37:33,103
to them. That's how we have been

1150
00:37:34,519 --> 00:37:34,769
told by our attorney. It then

1151
00:37:36,453 --> 00:37:36,703
goes to our mapping department

1152
00:37:38,419 --> 00:37:38,669
to map out what they read as the

1153
00:37:40,453 --> 00:37:40,703
deed, and then it also is is set

1154
00:37:42,353 --> 00:37:42,603
to assessment as far. So it's

1155
00:37:44,186 --> 00:37:44,436
mapping and assessment are

1156
00:37:44,753 --> 00:37:45,003
responsible for interpreting

1157
00:37:46,453 --> 00:37:46,703
that deed, not report our deeds.

1158
00:37:48,419 --> 00:37:48,669
They just record. Do they ever

1159
00:37:50,586 --> 00:37:50,836
find differences? They do, but

1160
00:37:52,419 --> 00:37:52,669
it plays out with attorneys.

1161
00:37:54,386 --> 00:37:54,636
Attorneys are the ones

1162
00:37:56,219 --> 00:37:56,469
responsible for that filing of

1163
00:37:58,186 --> 00:37:58,436
that deed. And in Delaware, we

1164
00:37:58,886 --> 00:37:59,136
are to record it. We are just an

1165
00:38:00,253 --> 00:38:00,503
Attorneys are the ones

1166
00:38:00,753 --> 00:38:01,003
responsible for that filing of

1167
00:38:01,453 --> 00:38:01,703
that deed. And in Delaware, we

1168
00:38:02,019 --> 00:38:02,269
are to record it. We are just

1169
00:38:02,619 --> 00:38:02,869
an administrative arm of the

1170
00:38:03,219 --> 00:38:03,469
reporter deeds. That's, that's

1171
00:38:04,353 --> 00:38:04,603
it, just administrative in

1172
00:38:06,186 --> 00:38:06,436
Delaware. I don't know how New

1173
00:38:06,819 --> 00:38:07,069
Castle is, but it's just like

1174
00:38:07,453 --> 00:38:07,703
what Susan said.

1175
00:38:10,486 --> 00:38:10,736
So I have a property that and I

1176
00:38:11,186 --> 00:38:11,436
do a little bit of real estate,

1177
00:38:12,286 --> 00:38:12,536
not as much as Jeff, but

1178
00:38:14,286 --> 00:38:14,536
Um, we

1179
00:38:16,586 --> 00:38:16,836
Changed out a garage, made it,

1180
00:38:18,519 --> 00:38:18,769
now it's a 4 bedroom versus a 2,

1181
00:38:20,319 --> 00:38:20,569
and we're going through the

1182
00:38:20,886 --> 00:38:21,136
process of changing that the

1183
00:38:22,286 --> 00:38:22,536
county and through the

1184
00:38:22,819 --> 00:38:23,069
reassessment office.

1185
00:38:24,453 --> 00:38:24,703
Eventually ends up recorded.

1186
00:38:26,319 --> 00:38:26,569
Um,

1187
00:38:28,419 --> 00:38:28,669
And then my assumption, I guess,

1188
00:38:30,286 --> 00:38:30,536
and Jeff might be better is.

1189
00:38:32,519 --> 00:38:32,769
During an assessment property

1190
00:38:34,453 --> 00:38:34,703
where your property then gets

1191
00:38:35,119 --> 00:38:35,369
reassessed in this whole thing.

1192
00:38:36,486 --> 00:38:36,736
The actual owner would.

1193
00:38:38,419 --> 00:38:38,669
Challenging.

1194
00:38:42,219 --> 00:38:42,469
During the appeals process that

1195
00:38:42,853 --> 00:38:43,103
they thought there was a need to

1196
00:38:44,319 --> 00:38:44,569
do it, because I don't know.

1197
00:38:48,219 --> 00:38:48,469
How the deeds office could

1198
00:38:48,819 --> 00:38:49,069
verify.

1199
00:38:50,453 --> 00:38:50,703
All of that. So let me ask you

1200
00:38:52,319 --> 00:38:52,569
something. If, if that happens,

1201
00:38:54,253 --> 00:38:54,503
how does the recorder of deeds

1202
00:38:54,919 --> 00:38:55,169
ever get updated? Like if you

1203
00:38:56,386 --> 00:38:56,636
find a difference, you're like,

1204
00:38:58,553 --> 00:38:58,803
that's not right. How does, does

1205
00:39:00,453 --> 00:39:00,703
the information go back and

1206
00:39:02,553 --> 00:39:02,803
forth, so we, we require a new

1207
00:39:04,453 --> 00:39:04,703
deed to be so if the deed is

1208
00:39:06,453 --> 00:39:06,703
wrong, because that is the main

1209
00:39:08,319 --> 00:39:08,569
legal document. We require an

1210
00:39:10,286 --> 00:39:10,536
attorney to file a corrective

1211
00:39:10,953 --> 00:39:11,203
deed

1212
00:39:12,219 --> 00:39:12,469
to make sure that all the

1213
00:39:14,319 --> 00:39:14,569
paperwork because we cannot do

1214
00:39:16,253 --> 00:39:16,503
anything different than what is

1215
00:39:18,253 --> 00:39:18,503
in that deed. So it has to be

1216
00:39:18,886 --> 00:39:19,136
refiled, um.

1217
00:39:22,219 --> 00:39:22,469
If we make an error, uh, like

1218
00:39:22,853 --> 00:39:23,103
clerical error, we just change

1219
00:39:24,486 --> 00:39:24,736
it because the deed, if we have

1220
00:39:26,219 --> 00:39:26,469
to represent what that deed

1221
00:39:28,219 --> 00:39:28,469
says, whatever was recorded. But

1222
00:39:30,286 --> 00:39:30,536
there are a lot of property line

1223
00:39:32,219 --> 00:39:32,469
dispute issues because somebody

1224
00:39:32,886 --> 00:39:33,136
will record a deed and then that

1225
00:39:34,586 --> 00:39:34,836
property line has moved, it

1226
00:39:36,286 --> 00:39:36,536
becomes then an issue between

1227
00:39:38,253 --> 00:39:38,503
the property owners because that

1228
00:39:38,953 --> 00:39:39,203
attorney filed the deed and we

1229
00:39:40,286 --> 00:39:40,536
have to follow what the deed

1230
00:39:40,886 --> 00:39:41,136
says.

1231
00:39:44,186 --> 00:39:44,436
And then we get mapping

1232
00:39:44,719 --> 00:39:44,969
involved, but again, in the end,

1233
00:39:46,353 --> 00:39:46,603
it's attorneys going.

1234
00:39:46,853 --> 00:39:47,103
with each other.

1235
00:39:50,519 --> 00:39:50,769
No, exactly what

1236
00:39:52,219 --> 00:39:52,469
Gina said, under a quarter of

1237
00:39:52,886 --> 00:39:53,136
No, exactly what Gina said under

1238
00:39:53,586 --> 00:39:53,836
a quarter these office is

1239
00:39:54,219 --> 00:39:54,469
strictly just filing the

1240
00:39:54,819 --> 00:39:55,069
document, period. They're not

1241
00:39:58,286 --> 00:39:58,536
doing uh checking for lines and

1242
00:39:58,919 --> 00:39:59,169
those types of things that that

1243
00:40:00,319 --> 00:40:00,569
falls on, um.

1244
00:40:02,453 --> 00:40:02,703
GIS mapping the assessment

1245
00:40:03,053 --> 00:40:03,303
office.

1246
00:40:06,186 --> 00:40:06,436
And but who communicates back

1247
00:40:06,819 --> 00:40:07,069
that the deed needs to be

1248
00:40:07,353 --> 00:40:07,603
changed?

1249
00:40:10,486 --> 00:40:10,736
That will go through the

1250
00:40:12,253 --> 00:40:12,503
attorneys at the at the

1251
00:40:12,753 --> 00:40:13,003
settlement.

1252
00:40:14,386 --> 00:40:14,636
It's the property owner we go

1253
00:40:16,186 --> 00:40:16,436
back to the property owner and

1254
00:40:16,819 --> 00:40:17,069
said, there is a problem here.

1255
00:40:18,453 --> 00:40:18,703
and then they have to go and

1256
00:40:20,586 --> 00:40:20,836
just dispute it with the courts

1257
00:40:22,319 --> 00:40:22,569
or the other property owner.

1258
00:40:24,386 --> 00:40:24,636
I think you did say that. I

1259
00:40:26,286 --> 00:40:26,536
just, this is all new

1260
00:40:28,219 --> 00:40:28,469
information, so I, I needed to

1261
00:40:30,253 --> 00:40:30,503
like, you know, digest it and

1262
00:40:32,219 --> 00:40:32,469
hear it again. So, so let me ask

1263
00:40:32,886 --> 00:40:33,136
you this question then, um.

1264
00:40:36,219 --> 00:40:36,469
Do we feel as if we need to have

1265
00:40:36,953 --> 00:40:37,203
a conversation?

1266
00:40:40,253 --> 00:40:40,503
Do we feel we need to bring in

1267
00:40:40,886 --> 00:40:41,136
the reporter of deeds as like

1268
00:40:42,419 --> 00:40:42,669
speaker of questions or nothing.

1269
00:40:44,286 --> 00:40:44,536
Does anything need to change

1270
00:40:46,319 --> 00:40:46,569
legally to, to change this

1271
00:40:46,953 --> 00:40:47,203
process or it's not broke, don't

1272
00:40:47,653 --> 00:40:47,903
fix it.

1273
00:40:50,319 --> 00:40:50,569
I don't feel that we need to,

1274
00:40:50,986 --> 00:40:51,236
um, I'll be.

1275
00:40:52,619 --> 00:40:52,869
Happy to discuss that with

1276
00:40:53,219 --> 00:40:53,469
anybody else.

1277
00:40:56,286 --> 00:40:56,536
No,

1278
00:40:56,536 --> 00:40:56,786
not needed.

1279
00:40:58,453 --> 00:40:58,703
I was to Jeff and what he thinks

1280
00:41:00,319 --> 00:41:00,569
after hearing that, but Jeff,

1281
00:41:00,919 --> 00:41:01,169
what do you think at a minimum.

1282
00:41:01,553 --> 00:41:01,803
Oh.

1283
00:41:04,286 --> 00:41:04,536
I think if we're going to change

1284
00:41:06,319 --> 00:41:06,569
any, I think it, it, it's, it's

1285
00:41:08,419 --> 00:41:08,669
similar to bringing in a, uh a

1286
00:41:10,353 --> 00:41:10,603
licensed appraiser if, if we're

1287
00:41:12,186 --> 00:41:12,436
gonna change anything that will

1288
00:41:14,186 --> 00:41:14,436
require changes to the deed

1289
00:41:16,186 --> 00:41:16,436
system. We're probably gonna

1290
00:41:16,819 --> 00:41:17,069
want to talk to them at, at, at

1291
00:41:18,586 --> 00:41:18,836
that point. Bringing them in

1292
00:41:19,253 --> 00:41:19,503
now, um,

1293
00:41:22,419 --> 00:41:22,669
As voting members or, or

1294
00:41:24,386 --> 00:41:24,636
whatever, it's probably not

1295
00:41:26,219 --> 00:41:26,469
necessary, but if we're going to

1296
00:41:26,853 --> 00:41:27,103
change the system that affects

1297
00:41:28,419 --> 00:41:28,669
them, it probably will be at

1298
00:41:30,253 --> 00:41:30,503
least, at least.

1299
00:41:30,553 --> 00:41:30,803
As guests.

1300
00:41:34,219 --> 00:41:34,469
Um, obviously, you know, nobody,

1301
00:41:34,919 --> 00:41:35,169
you know, everybody here is on a

1302
00:41:36,486 --> 00:41:36,736
do no harm kind of mentality

1303
00:41:38,386 --> 00:41:38,636
when it comes to this task

1304
00:41:40,419 --> 00:41:40,669
force. Um, and so we just want

1305
00:41:42,553 --> 00:41:42,803
to make sure if we're heading in

1306
00:41:44,219 --> 00:41:44,469
that direction that we get to it

1307
00:41:46,186 --> 00:41:46,436
early before we have something

1308
00:41:48,186 --> 00:41:48,436
that we're married to, and then,

1309
00:41:48,886 --> 00:41:49,136
you know, the 3 recorders of

1310
00:41:50,386 --> 00:41:50,636
deeds say, what have you done?

1311
00:41:51,053 --> 00:41:51,303
What have you done? What have

1312
00:41:51,619 --> 00:41:51,869
you done?

1313
00:41:54,353 --> 00:41:54,603
OK, agreed, and Justin, does

1314
00:41:54,953 --> 00:41:55,203
that all track with you?

1315
00:41:58,319 --> 00:41:58,569
Yeah, 100%. I think that makes a

1316
00:42:00,386 --> 00:42:00,636
lot of sense. I, I think if they

1317
00:42:02,186 --> 00:42:02,436
were on here full time, they

1318
00:42:02,853 --> 00:42:03,103
would be bored most of the time

1319
00:42:04,353 --> 00:42:04,603
because we're gonna be covering

1320
00:42:06,519 --> 00:42:06,769
topics that are, you know, don't

1321
00:42:08,419 --> 00:42:08,669
pertain to them. Just hoping to

1322
00:42:12,419 --> 00:42:12,669
go to meetings, you know, um,

1323
00:42:12,986 --> 00:42:13,236
OK.

1324
00:42:14,453 --> 00:42:14,703
Really, you didn't introduce

1325
00:42:15,019 --> 00:42:15,269
yourself.

1326
00:42:18,219 --> 00:42:18,469
I'm Kate Bowen. I'm

1327
00:42:18,686 --> 00:42:18,936
Representative Romer's

1328
00:42:20,486 --> 00:42:20,736
legislative aide, and also went

1329
00:42:22,419 --> 00:42:22,669
extremely deep with me on

1330
00:42:24,319 --> 00:42:24,569
property tax last session, so

1331
00:42:24,919 --> 00:42:25,169
she's.

1332
00:42:28,186 --> 00:42:28,436
After Justin, she's probably the

1333
00:42:28,886 --> 00:42:29,136
expert on PRD CRD and all that

1334
00:42:32,186 --> 00:42:32,436
stuff, uh, and this is, uh, I'm

1335
00:42:34,286 --> 00:42:34,536
Wyatt. I'm Senator Manspinos's

1336
00:42:34,953 --> 00:42:35,203
After Justin, she's probably the

1337
00:42:35,686 --> 00:42:35,936
expert on PRD CRD and all that

1338
00:42:36,386 --> 00:42:36,636
stuff, uh, and this is, uh, I'm

1339
00:42:37,086 --> 00:42:37,336
Wyatt. I'm Senator Manspinos'

1340
00:42:37,719 --> 00:42:37,969
legislative assistant. Thank

1341
00:42:38,286 --> 00:42:38,536
you. And that's Adam who's doing

1342
00:42:38,986 --> 00:42:39,236
all of our, our tech tech

1343
00:42:39,586 --> 00:42:39,836
support so.

1344
00:42:42,286 --> 00:42:42,536
Awesome. All right, so we'll

1345
00:42:44,186 --> 00:42:44,436
just hold that. Thank you for

1346
00:42:44,819 --> 00:42:45,069
the conversation, um.

1347
00:43:00,319 --> 00:43:00,569
Hi, my name is Christian

1348
00:43:02,253 --> 00:43:02,503
Willauer. I represent the 5th

1349
00:43:02,886 --> 00:43:03,136
District on Wilmington City

1350
00:43:06,219 --> 00:43:06,469
Council, and I understand this

1351
00:43:06,886 --> 00:43:07,136
conversation is here about

1352
00:43:08,353 --> 00:43:08,603
membership evaluation. Are there

1353
00:43:10,253 --> 00:43:10,503
missing perspectives or

1354
00:43:12,186 --> 00:43:12,436
stakeholders. We need to

1355
00:43:12,753 --> 00:43:13,003
officially add members pursuant

1356
00:43:14,386 --> 00:43:14,636
to the co-chair authority, and I

1357
00:43:16,219 --> 00:43:16,469
would just like to request to be

1358
00:43:16,886 --> 00:43:17,136
added as a um

1359
00:43:18,419 --> 00:43:18,669
Member to the

1360
00:43:22,386 --> 00:43:22,636
Working group because I do

1361
00:43:22,953 --> 00:43:23,203
believe that the city of

1362
00:43:26,386 --> 00:43:26,636
Wilmington um has an important

1363
00:43:28,586 --> 00:43:28,836
kind of uh experience of the

1364
00:43:30,653 --> 00:43:30,903
reassessment and I think that

1365
00:43:34,219 --> 00:43:34,469
the, addressing the issues, it's

1366
00:43:34,886 --> 00:43:35,136
important to bring the city of

1367
00:43:36,519 --> 00:43:36,769
Wilmington, um, to the working

1368
00:43:38,453 --> 00:43:38,703
group. So I'd just like to

1369
00:43:40,386 --> 00:43:40,636
formally make that request.

1370
00:43:44,353 --> 00:43:44,603
Thanks, Christian. I'm sorry, we

1371
00:43:46,286 --> 00:43:46,536
kind of went out of order a

1372
00:43:46,886 --> 00:43:47,136
little bit there. Um, yes, we

1373
00:43:48,486 --> 00:43:48,736
actually did, um, have a

1374
00:43:50,319 --> 00:43:50,569
discussion, uh, we're going to

1375
00:43:50,953 --> 00:43:51,203
be adding somebody from the city

1376
00:43:52,319 --> 00:43:52,569
of Wilmington, an active

1377
00:43:54,386 --> 00:43:54,636
assessor, and somebody

1378
00:43:56,219 --> 00:43:56,469
potentially from the League of

1379
00:43:56,853 --> 00:43:57,103
Local Governments and also an

1380
00:43:58,286 --> 00:43:58,536
average homeowner, so we are

1381
00:43:58,853 --> 00:43:59,103
going to be expanding the, the

1382
00:43:59,553 --> 00:43:59,803
working group.

1383
00:44:02,286 --> 00:44:02,536
Did you want to say something?

1384
00:44:06,253 --> 00:44:06,503
No, I'm good, I got you.

1385
00:44:06,786 --> 00:44:07,036
Um,

1386
00:44:10,486 --> 00:44:10,736
OK,

1387
00:44:12,419 --> 00:44:12,669
So,

1388
00:44:14,519 --> 00:44:14,769
Are there questions regarding

1389
00:44:18,186 --> 00:44:18,436
the scope of work in this, that,

1390
00:44:20,253 --> 00:44:20,503
uh, you have a copy of this

1391
00:44:22,353 --> 00:44:22,603
here, um, what we're trying to

1392
00:44:22,986 --> 00:44:23,236
accomplish, um.

1393
00:44:24,453 --> 00:44:24,703
Sorry.

1394
00:44:26,353 --> 00:44:26,603
Um,

1395
00:44:32,286 --> 00:44:32,536
The scope of it, um, you know,

1396
00:44:32,953 --> 00:44:33,203
there is a different working

1397
00:44:34,486 --> 00:44:34,736
group working. Um, we are not

1398
00:44:36,519 --> 00:44:36,769
here to talk about policy. We're

1399
00:44:38,453 --> 00:44:38,703
not here to talk about tax

1400
00:44:42,253 --> 00:44:42,503
exemptions or um split tax rates

1401
00:44:42,919 --> 00:44:43,169
or

1402
00:44:44,353 --> 00:44:44,603
There's a group doing that.

1403
00:44:46,253 --> 00:44:46,503
There's a group doing that,

1404
00:44:46,819 --> 00:44:47,069
yeah, sorry.

1405
00:44:50,486 --> 00:44:50,736
Yeah,

1406
00:44:52,319 --> 00:44:52,569
you didn't get put on that group

1407
00:44:54,186 --> 00:44:54,436
though. We're the government and

1408
00:44:54,886 --> 00:44:55,136
we're here to help. Yeah, yeah,

1409
00:44:58,153 --> 00:44:58,403
exact, yeah, exactly. Um, but we

1410
00:45:00,253 --> 00:45:00,503
very specifically, at one point,

1411
00:45:02,219 --> 00:45:02,469
it was actually discussed about

1412
00:45:02,919 --> 00:45:03,169
having one big group and we very

1413
00:45:04,219 --> 00:45:04,469
much wanted to keep them

1414
00:45:04,719 --> 00:45:04,969
separate because this is really

1415
00:45:06,553 --> 00:45:06,803
about statewide standards, it's

1416
00:45:07,219 --> 00:45:07,469
not about, um.

1417
00:45:10,519 --> 00:45:10,769
Policy or any other kind of

1418
00:45:12,253 --> 00:45:12,503
conversations is really a much

1419
00:45:14,453 --> 00:45:14,703
more objective and just setting

1420
00:45:16,253 --> 00:45:16,503
up the rules of engagement kind

1421
00:45:16,986 --> 00:45:17,236
of thing, yes.

1422
00:45:18,319 --> 00:45:18,569
Could, could you go back to the

1423
00:45:20,319 --> 00:45:20,569
slide for our deliverables? It

1424
00:45:22,319 --> 00:45:22,569
says um that our deliverable is

1425
00:45:24,253 --> 00:45:24,503
a property tax package. Should

1426
00:45:24,953 --> 00:45:25,203
it be?

1427
00:45:25,203 --> 00:45:25,453
Uh, an assessment.

1428
00:45:28,486 --> 00:45:28,736
Package or an evaluation. I like

1429
00:45:30,419 --> 00:45:30,669
that. That's a good point. And

1430
00:45:32,186 --> 00:45:32,436
that's, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,

1431
00:45:34,219 --> 00:45:34,469
that stands out as a, yeah, I

1432
00:45:36,186 --> 00:45:36,436
don't want

1433
00:45:36,436 --> 00:45:36,686
people thinking we're coming up

1434
00:45:37,119 --> 00:45:37,369
with some

1435
00:45:37,386 --> 00:45:37,636
correct,

1436
00:45:38,319 --> 00:45:38,569
good call. Good call,

1437
00:45:40,619 --> 00:45:40,869
um, because yes, this will be if

1438
00:45:42,453 --> 00:45:42,703
that group comes out with a

1439
00:45:43,019 --> 00:45:43,269
different thing that's gonna be

1440
00:45:44,186 --> 00:45:44,436
a whole separate package we're

1441
00:45:46,219 --> 00:45:46,469
not combining them so yes we

1442
00:45:46,819 --> 00:45:47,069
will update the PowerPoint to

1443
00:45:48,653 --> 00:45:48,903
show that uh before we put all

1444
00:45:50,353 --> 00:45:50,603
of these online, um.

1445
00:45:52,353 --> 00:45:52,603
Excellent point, so.

1446
00:45:56,319 --> 00:45:56,569
Yeah. And this really has been

1447
00:45:58,386 --> 00:45:58,636
my focus since the very

1448
00:46:00,319 --> 00:46:00,569
beginning. Um, Senator Bucks and

1449
00:46:02,219 --> 00:46:02,469
I both sat on the hearing

1450
00:46:04,186 --> 00:46:04,436
committee and so much

1451
00:46:04,653 --> 00:46:04,903
conversation was had about, uh,

1452
00:46:06,219 --> 00:46:06,469
you know, what can we do, how

1453
00:46:06,853 --> 00:46:07,103
can we provide tax relief, and

1454
00:46:08,319 --> 00:46:08,569
to me, I never felt like.

1455
00:46:12,219 --> 00:46:12,469
I didn't really want to jump

1456
00:46:12,786 --> 00:46:13,036
into those conversations when we

1457
00:46:14,319 --> 00:46:14,569
have a Rocky foundation, right?

1458
00:46:14,986 --> 00:46:15,236
We're trying to build a house on

1459
00:46:16,419 --> 00:46:16,669
a rocky foundation, and that's

1460
00:46:17,119 --> 00:46:17,369
never a good idea, um.

1461
00:46:18,553 --> 00:46:18,803
You know, I do know there are

1462
00:46:20,453 --> 00:46:20,703
going to be conversations

1463
00:46:22,419 --> 00:46:22,669
specifically, um, you know, New

1464
00:46:24,286 --> 00:46:24,536
Castle County, because of SB

1465
00:46:26,353 --> 00:46:26,603
228, you guys have been able to

1466
00:46:28,319 --> 00:46:28,569
go back and and quality check

1467
00:46:30,419 --> 00:46:30,669
and how we move forward with the

1468
00:46:32,219 --> 00:46:32,469
next set of properties because

1469
00:46:32,919 --> 00:46:33,169
I, I realize it's a big

1470
00:46:34,586 --> 00:46:34,836
undertaking, is going to be a

1471
00:46:36,486 --> 00:46:36,736
separate conversation than than

1472
00:46:38,353 --> 00:46:38,603
this one. So yes, correct, we

1473
00:46:39,019 --> 00:46:39,269
will, we will update that slide.

1474
00:46:48,219 --> 00:46:48,469
Rich. Yes, rich.

1475
00:46:48,586 --> 00:46:48,836
One issue in terms of scope that

1476
00:46:52,386 --> 00:46:52,636
I, I just wanted to raise is in

1477
00:46:56,186 --> 00:46:56,436
the resolution and the recitals

1478
00:46:56,886 --> 00:46:57,136
talk about ensuring that the

1479
00:47:00,286 --> 00:47:00,536
certified roles meet the IAAO

1480
00:47:00,886 --> 00:47:01,136
standards. Um,

1481
00:47:02,519 --> 00:47:02,769
But that in my mind raises the

1482
00:47:04,219 --> 00:47:04,469
But that in my mind raises a the

1483
00:47:04,886 --> 00:47:05,136
question, what happens if the

1484
00:47:06,286 --> 00:47:06,536
assessment doesn't meet the

1485
00:47:08,186 --> 00:47:08,436
standards. So one thing I think

1486
00:47:08,819 --> 00:47:09,069
we're going to need to have to

1487
00:47:12,419 --> 00:47:12,669
deal with is what happens then,

1488
00:47:14,286 --> 00:47:14,536
because even a, a, you know,

1489
00:47:16,419 --> 00:47:16,669
even as this time around, even

1490
00:47:20,253 --> 00:47:20,503
in places where the reassessment

1491
00:47:22,453 --> 00:47:22,703
didn't meet the standards, and

1492
00:47:23,153 --> 00:47:23,403
particularly Wilmington,

1493
00:47:24,686 --> 00:47:24,936
um, the reassessed values were

1494
00:47:28,219 --> 00:47:28,469
in general better than they were

1495
00:47:28,919 --> 00:47:29,169
before the reassessment.

1496
00:47:30,453 --> 00:47:30,703
So that's a different issue that

1497
00:47:32,286 --> 00:47:32,536
I think needs to be added to

1498
00:47:32,886 --> 00:47:33,136
what we deal with, what happens.

1499
00:47:34,386 --> 00:47:34,636
If

1500
00:47:38,253 --> 00:47:38,503
the standards aren't met in the

1501
00:47:38,886 --> 00:47:39,136
next reassessment, for example.

1502
00:47:42,486 --> 00:47:42,736
That's, that's a great point,

1503
00:47:43,186 --> 00:47:43,436
um.

1504
00:47:44,419 --> 00:47:44,669
One of the

1505
00:47:50,253 --> 00:47:50,503
Conversations I had that Kate

1506
00:47:52,253 --> 00:47:52,503
and I had with Justin earlier on

1507
00:47:52,953 --> 00:47:53,203
was.

1508
00:47:53,203 --> 00:47:53,453
Um,

1509
00:47:56,486 --> 00:47:56,736
The realistic conversation of

1510
00:47:58,419 --> 00:47:58,669
who can even meet some of these

1511
00:48:00,253 --> 00:48:00,503
gold level standards, right?

1512
00:48:02,219 --> 00:48:02,469
Just because you can't reach the

1513
00:48:02,886 --> 00:48:03,136
goal that we haven't done an

1514
00:48:03,486 --> 00:48:03,736
assessment in 40 years.

1515
00:48:06,353 --> 00:48:06,603
We can't necessarily be like

1516
00:48:10,219 --> 00:48:10,469
measured against a, a, a gold

1517
00:48:10,886 --> 00:48:11,136
standard for that, um, or have

1518
00:48:12,353 --> 00:48:12,603
that be an assumption, and

1519
00:48:14,186 --> 00:48:14,436
Justin, you can probably speak

1520
00:48:14,819 --> 00:48:15,069
to it better, but he, you know,

1521
00:48:16,286 --> 00:48:16,536
every assessment is going to get

1522
00:48:18,486 --> 00:48:18,736
better and better, um, and so I

1523
00:48:22,253 --> 00:48:22,503
know a kind of a, an analogy I

1524
00:48:22,953 --> 00:48:23,203
would use is.

1525
00:48:24,419 --> 00:48:24,669
You know, midnight is your

1526
00:48:26,253 --> 00:48:26,503
curfew. 12:10 is OK.

1527
00:48:28,419 --> 00:48:28,669
12:30 is not acceptable. You

1528
00:48:30,519 --> 00:48:30,769
know, what are the parameters

1529
00:48:32,353 --> 00:48:32,603
and then what are the allowable

1530
00:48:34,319 --> 00:48:34,569
limits outside of that

1531
00:48:34,853 --> 00:48:35,103
parameter, and I, I think that's

1532
00:48:36,253 --> 00:48:36,503
where we're going to end up

1533
00:48:38,286 --> 00:48:38,536
having to rely on Justin. And to

1534
00:48:40,319 --> 00:48:40,569
your point, Rich is, is.

1535
00:48:42,519 --> 00:48:42,769
Legislatively, we're going to

1536
00:48:44,419 --> 00:48:44,669
have to figure out what if

1537
00:48:46,253 --> 00:48:46,503
somebody can't assess those

1538
00:48:48,419 --> 00:48:48,669
roles, like, let's say 2020.

1539
00:48:52,219 --> 00:48:52,469
2030 happens, it's the next

1540
00:48:52,786 --> 00:48:53,036
assessment and.

1541
00:48:54,386 --> 00:48:54,636
We won't keep picking on

1542
00:48:56,286 --> 00:48:56,536
Newcastle. As I say Sussex

1543
00:48:58,153 --> 00:48:58,403
County can't certify their tax

1544
00:49:00,253 --> 00:49:00,503
rolls. What does that mean? Do

1545
00:49:02,319 --> 00:49:02,569
they, um, not send out bills?

1546
00:49:02,953 --> 00:49:03,203
How does that impact our

1547
00:49:04,353 --> 00:49:04,603
schools? Do they send out bills

1548
00:49:06,219 --> 00:49:06,469
that based on the previous

1549
00:49:06,786 --> 00:49:07,036
years, um.

1550
00:49:08,653 --> 00:49:08,903
You know, assessed values like

1551
00:49:10,253 --> 00:49:10,503
what, how do we handle.

1552
00:49:10,753 --> 00:49:11,003
Those

1553
00:49:14,186 --> 00:49:14,436
Those things can happen when you

1554
00:49:14,919 --> 00:49:15,169
don't certify your tax rolls,

1555
00:49:16,353 --> 00:49:16,603
um, if there's, um.

1556
00:49:18,519 --> 00:49:18,769
Certain areas that didn't meet.

1557
00:49:22,319 --> 00:49:22,569
But you know, if, if, if, if

1558
00:49:24,219 --> 00:49:24,469
Sussex County as a whole did

1559
00:49:24,853 --> 00:49:25,103
meet,

1560
00:49:26,186 --> 00:49:26,436
um, but then certain areas

1561
00:49:26,719 --> 00:49:26,969
didn't like how do we manage all

1562
00:49:28,386 --> 00:49:28,636
that and I think that's where we

1563
00:49:30,486 --> 00:49:30,736
can rely on Justin's expertise

1564
00:49:32,419 --> 00:49:32,669
in other states as well, or at

1565
00:49:34,353 --> 00:49:34,603
least appoint us to other

1566
00:49:36,353 --> 00:49:36,603
states. Some of those changes

1567
00:49:38,186 --> 00:49:38,436
will be policy discussions as

1568
00:49:38,853 --> 00:49:39,103
well, but what do we need to

1569
00:49:40,386 --> 00:49:40,636
change, if anything? Justin,

1570
00:49:40,986 --> 00:49:41,236
yes, please.

1571
00:49:44,386 --> 00:49:44,636
Yeah, so I think part of this,

1572
00:49:44,986 --> 00:49:45,236
um,

1573
00:49:46,519 --> 00:49:46,769
I, I think you'll have less

1574
00:49:48,386 --> 00:49:48,636
problems if you've got oversight

1575
00:49:50,419 --> 00:49:50,669
in place ahead of time, and you

1576
00:49:52,553 --> 00:49:52,803
can kind of QC the process as it

1577
00:49:54,386 --> 00:49:54,636
goes. You've got a higher

1578
00:49:56,386 --> 00:49:56,636
likelihood of, of success than

1579
00:49:56,986 --> 00:49:57,236
I, I think you'll have less

1580
00:49:57,586 --> 00:49:57,836
problems if you've got oversight

1581
00:49:58,286 --> 00:49:58,536
in place ahead of time, and you

1582
00:49:59,019 --> 00:49:59,269
can kind of QC the process as it

1583
00:49:59,719 --> 00:49:59,969
goes. You've got a higher

1584
00:50:00,286 --> 00:50:00,536
likelihood of, of success then

1585
00:50:00,919 --> 00:50:01,169
in the end rather than

1586
00:50:02,219 --> 00:50:02,469
Um, you know, and there could be

1587
00:50:02,953 --> 00:50:03,203
situations where you do have a

1588
00:50:04,319 --> 00:50:04,569
problem in the end and values

1589
00:50:06,286 --> 00:50:06,536
aren't certified on time or

1590
00:50:08,219 --> 00:50:08,469
properly or or whatever, but

1591
00:50:08,786 --> 00:50:09,036
hopefully if you've got a lot of

1592
00:50:10,453 --> 00:50:10,703
those QCs and you've been

1593
00:50:12,486 --> 00:50:12,736
quality checking and

1594
00:50:14,319 --> 00:50:14,569
double checking that processes

1595
00:50:16,353 --> 00:50:16,603
are getting done for the full 5

1596
00:50:17,019 --> 00:50:17,269
years. Hopefully they're in a

1597
00:50:18,519 --> 00:50:18,769
good spot by the time they get

1598
00:50:19,186 --> 00:50:19,436
there.

1599
00:50:26,286 --> 00:50:26,536
Discussion about that.

1600
00:50:28,319 --> 00:50:28,569
That's a really good point,

1601
00:50:28,919 --> 00:50:29,169
Rich.

1602
00:50:34,486 --> 00:50:34,736
I wanted to ask Susan Dorm. Yes,

1603
00:50:38,319 --> 00:50:38,569
go ahead. Well, give her a time

1604
00:50:40,219 --> 00:50:40,469
to get ready for it. It's not

1605
00:50:42,186 --> 00:50:42,436
even a difficult one, the storm,

1606
00:50:42,919 --> 00:50:43,169
but

1607
00:50:43,169 --> 00:50:43,419
we've been asked basically.

1608
00:50:46,319 --> 00:50:46,569
We kind of understand the

1609
00:50:48,186 --> 00:50:48,436
mission and the path, path that

1610
00:50:50,353 --> 00:50:50,603
we're on and all that. And do

1611
00:50:51,019 --> 00:50:51,269
you have some thoughts on what

1612
00:50:52,486 --> 00:50:52,736
you hope to get out of this on

1613
00:50:53,186 --> 00:50:53,436
behalf of Kent County.

1614
00:50:54,486 --> 00:50:54,736
Um, maybe.

1615
00:51:00,253 --> 00:51:00,503
Tell us a little bit about what

1616
00:51:00,953 --> 00:51:01,203
maybe you hope doesn't happen. I

1617
00:51:02,286 --> 00:51:02,536
don't know. I'm putting you on

1618
00:51:04,219 --> 00:51:04,469
the spot, but I just wanted you

1619
00:51:04,886 --> 00:51:05,136
to maybe offer up some thoughts.

1620
00:51:06,353 --> 00:51:06,603
And please

1621
00:51:08,486 --> 00:51:08,736
be honest. That's a great point.

1622
00:51:10,319 --> 00:51:10,569
What do you want to happen and

1623
00:51:10,953 --> 00:51:11,203
what are you like, please don't

1624
00:51:14,419 --> 00:51:14,669
let this happen. Yes.

1625
00:51:18,219 --> 00:51:18,469
I need to raise my hand and I

1626
00:51:18,886 --> 00:51:19,136
think your audio is what you're

1627
00:51:20,219 --> 00:51:20,469
talking about. OK,

1628
00:51:20,686 --> 00:51:20,936
um, well.

1629
00:51:26,219 --> 00:51:26,469
Actually, we, we are happy with

1630
00:51:26,853 --> 00:51:27,103
the way things went.

1631
00:51:28,519 --> 00:51:28,769
And uh we're really

1632
00:51:34,319 --> 00:51:34,569
Wanting to change much of

1633
00:51:34,919 --> 00:51:35,169
anything, we were following.

1634
00:51:36,486 --> 00:51:36,736
And then we thought we did good

1635
00:51:38,486 --> 00:51:38,736
with the reassessment, uh.

1636
00:51:40,419 --> 00:51:40,669
And

1637
00:51:44,553 --> 00:51:44,803
I don't really have anything

1638
00:51:46,553 --> 00:51:46,803
that wants to be changed. I know

1639
00:51:48,586 --> 00:51:48,836
we don't want to have the, to be

1640
00:51:49,253 --> 00:51:49,503
forced to do things that

1641
00:51:52,486 --> 00:51:52,736
To help, you know, that to clear

1642
00:51:54,419 --> 00:51:54,669
up the problems with Newcastle.

1643
00:51:56,353 --> 00:51:56,603
We didn't want that forced upon

1644
00:51:58,286 --> 00:51:58,536
us because we're just two

1645
00:51:58,819 --> 00:51:59,069
different.

1646
00:52:02,153 --> 00:52:02,403
Uh, counties, you know, we, we,

1647
00:52:02,819 --> 00:52:03,069
our properties are not the same

1648
00:52:04,419 --> 00:52:04,669
and our situations are not the

1649
00:52:06,219 --> 00:52:06,469
same. But um,

1650
00:52:08,419 --> 00:52:08,669
We really weren't looking for

1651
00:52:10,519 --> 00:52:10,769
anything to change, basically.

1652
00:52:12,586 --> 00:52:12,836
That we would need legislation.

1653
00:52:14,353 --> 00:52:14,603
I agree.

1654
00:52:18,286 --> 00:52:18,536
Can, can I ask you, uh, Susan,

1655
00:52:18,919 --> 00:52:19,169
um, Miss Dorham.

1656
00:52:22,519 --> 00:52:22,769
We are closing in. I mean, it is

1657
00:52:24,419 --> 00:52:24,669
coming up on when Kent County

1658
00:52:26,353 --> 00:52:26,603
will have to do this thing

1659
00:52:30,219 --> 00:52:30,469
again. Um, if it was this year,

1660
00:52:30,886 --> 00:52:31,136
if it was next week, whatever,

1661
00:52:32,419 --> 00:52:32,669
the system that you have, you

1662
00:52:34,619 --> 00:52:34,869
feel comfortable doing. Uh, do

1663
00:52:36,453 --> 00:52:36,703
you see any bumps in the road?

1664
00:52:38,619 --> 00:52:38,869
Do you see this thing other than

1665
00:52:40,453 --> 00:52:40,703
just folks who don't like being

1666
00:52:41,153 --> 00:52:41,403
reassessed?

1667
00:52:42,486 --> 00:52:42,736
Is there anything left, left to

1668
00:52:46,186 --> 00:52:46,436
be fixed or something that you

1669
00:52:46,886 --> 00:52:47,136
would need assistance. I know

1670
00:52:48,419 --> 00:52:48,669
you just said you like your

1671
00:52:48,986 --> 00:52:49,236
system. I just wanted to.

1672
00:52:52,386 --> 00:52:52,636
Is there anything out there that

1673
00:52:53,086 --> 00:52:53,336
you're worried about?

1674
00:52:54,386 --> 00:52:54,636
When you do it first.

1675
00:52:58,519 --> 00:52:58,769
Um, I'm, we really aren't, uh.

1676
00:53:02,519 --> 00:53:02,769
You know, I just can't, um,

1677
00:53:06,219 --> 00:53:06,469
Cheryl's in here with me, um,

1678
00:53:08,419 --> 00:53:08,669
and we really can't put our

1679
00:53:10,386 --> 00:53:10,636
fingers on anything right now,

1680
00:53:11,019 --> 00:53:11,269
anyhow, um.

1681
00:53:14,319 --> 00:53:14,569
We feel like the system we have

1682
00:53:14,953 --> 00:53:15,203
and the way we did it worked.

1683
00:53:18,419 --> 00:53:18,669
Um, and nothing's perfect and

1684
00:53:20,553 --> 00:53:20,803
There certainly were mistakes

1685
00:53:22,419 --> 00:53:22,669
made along the way called human

1686
00:53:24,419 --> 00:53:24,669
error that that's just going to

1687
00:53:25,053 --> 00:53:25,303
There certainly were mistakes

1688
00:53:25,653 --> 00:53:25,903
made along the way called human

1689
00:53:26,319 --> 00:53:26,569
error that that's just gonna be

1690
00:53:26,953 --> 00:53:27,203
a factor no matter when or how

1691
00:53:28,486 --> 00:53:28,736
you do it and you really have to

1692
00:53:30,586 --> 00:53:30,836
just, it's mainly managing your

1693
00:53:32,286 --> 00:53:32,536
contract or your

1694
00:53:34,519 --> 00:53:34,769
A contractor and stuff like

1695
00:53:35,119 --> 00:53:35,369
that, so.

1696
00:53:40,319 --> 00:53:40,569
We feel like what we have works

1697
00:53:41,019 --> 00:53:41,269
for us.

1698
00:53:42,519 --> 00:53:42,769
One last question and then I'm

1699
00:53:44,486 --> 00:53:44,736
done. Do you feel like the cost

1700
00:53:46,186 --> 00:53:46,436
One last question and then I'm

1701
00:53:46,919 --> 00:53:47,169
done. Do you feel like the costs

1702
00:53:47,619 --> 00:53:47,869
associated with the reassessment

1703
00:53:48,419 --> 00:53:48,669
are going to be less this time

1704
00:53:50,453 --> 00:53:50,703
around, or do you have no way of

1705
00:53:52,186 --> 00:53:52,436
understanding that,

1706
00:53:52,619 --> 00:53:52,869
no

1707
00:53:54,419 --> 00:53:54,669
we have an RFP out there right

1708
00:53:56,486 --> 00:53:56,736
now with Sussex County, and so

1709
00:53:58,286 --> 00:53:58,536
we'll be able to answer that.

1710
00:54:00,586 --> 00:54:00,836
Uh, in about a month.

1711
00:54:04,286 --> 00:54:04,536
Cause the only question I have

1712
00:54:06,186 --> 00:54:06,436
not today cause that's a bigger

1713
00:54:08,219 --> 00:54:08,469
question. I know the lawsuit has

1714
00:54:08,886 --> 00:54:09,136
something to do with the

1715
00:54:10,286 --> 00:54:10,536
language, 5 years, all that.

1716
00:54:12,519 --> 00:54:12,769
But just having that

1717
00:54:12,986 --> 00:54:13,236
conversation about.

1718
00:54:16,486 --> 00:54:16,736
Is a 5 year turnaround, a good

1719
00:54:20,219 --> 00:54:20,469
thing necessary is 7, more

1720
00:54:22,186 --> 00:54:22,436
suitable is 10, and it really

1721
00:54:22,819 --> 00:54:23,069
comes down to cost and the

1722
00:54:24,353 --> 00:54:24,603
effectiveness of a reassessment.

1723
00:54:26,453 --> 00:54:26,703
So, is there merit in having

1724
00:54:27,053 --> 00:54:27,303
that conversation?

1725
00:54:30,353 --> 00:54:30,603
Yes.

1726
00:54:36,386 --> 00:54:36,636
All right, thank you. That's.

1727
00:54:38,586 --> 00:54:38,836
How about you? Anything um from

1728
00:54:42,419 --> 00:54:42,669
That your same, same basic

1729
00:54:44,353 --> 00:54:44,603
question. Um, I mean, some of

1730
00:54:46,286 --> 00:54:46,536
this is gonna be us saying, OK,

1731
00:54:48,286 --> 00:54:48,536
this did work, you know, the

1732
00:54:48,919 --> 00:54:49,169
transparency did work, but that

1733
00:54:50,586 --> 00:54:50,836
we need to still put it in state

1734
00:54:52,286 --> 00:54:52,536
code that that is the

1735
00:54:52,719 --> 00:54:52,969
expectation that people will

1736
00:54:56,319 --> 00:54:56,569
have, um, you know, I know,

1737
00:54:58,253 --> 00:54:58,503
like, here's an example. 11 of

1738
00:54:58,919 --> 00:54:59,169
the frustrations I heard from

1739
00:55:00,286 --> 00:55:00,536
people is like you have an

1740
00:55:00,819 --> 00:55:01,069
appeals window, right? People

1741
00:55:01,486 --> 00:55:01,736
can file an appeal.

1742
00:55:04,386 --> 00:55:04,636
Some of the frustration we heard

1743
00:55:06,319 --> 00:55:06,569
from homeowners is, why can't I

1744
00:55:06,953 --> 00:55:07,203
file it anytime? I understand

1745
00:55:08,353 --> 00:55:08,603
you have to have a point in time

1746
00:55:09,086 --> 00:55:09,336
that you can't.

1747
00:55:10,486 --> 00:55:10,736
that appeal is good for.

1748
00:55:12,553 --> 00:55:12,803
Why can't I still file it when

1749
00:55:14,519 --> 00:55:14,769
it's in my mind, and you don't

1750
00:55:16,319 --> 00:55:16,569
do anything with it till the

1751
00:55:18,219 --> 00:55:18,469
following year. Like that's just

1752
00:55:18,953 --> 00:55:19,203
an example. It doesn't mean the

1753
00:55:20,386 --> 00:55:20,636
system's broke. It doesn't mean

1754
00:55:21,053 --> 00:55:21,303
that, oh my God, that's

1755
00:55:22,419 --> 00:55:22,669
terrible, but it is a little bit

1756
00:55:24,286 --> 00:55:24,536
of feedback of like maybe those,

1757
00:55:24,953 --> 00:55:25,203
that's just like one example,

1758
00:55:26,419 --> 00:55:26,669
but what are your thoughts on

1759
00:55:28,453 --> 00:55:28,703
that? Or not that, but like on

1760
00:55:30,286 --> 00:55:30,536
what's working, what's not.

1761
00:55:30,819 --> 00:55:31,069
That's fine. No, um.

1762
00:55:34,553 --> 00:55:34,803
We follow IAAO and those are

1763
00:55:36,386 --> 00:55:36,636
standards. And I hope that we

1764
00:55:38,286 --> 00:55:38,536
just, we create standards,

1765
00:55:40,219 --> 00:55:40,469
that's fine, but we don't have

1766
00:55:40,886 --> 00:55:41,136
to fit ourselves in a box

1767
00:55:42,319 --> 00:55:42,569
because each property is gonna

1768
00:55:44,186 --> 00:55:44,436
be different and I just, we just

1769
00:55:46,186 --> 00:55:46,436
need to be able to provide some

1770
00:55:48,186 --> 00:55:48,436
type of answer as why it might

1771
00:55:48,886 --> 00:55:49,136
not have fit the COD or

1772
00:55:50,386 --> 00:55:50,636
something like that for that

1773
00:55:52,219 --> 00:55:52,469
property or anything like that.

1774
00:55:52,919 --> 00:55:53,169
So I just ask that we're not put

1775
00:55:54,286 --> 00:55:54,536
in a box because we just don't

1776
00:55:56,253 --> 00:55:56,503
know what we don't know going

1777
00:55:56,919 --> 00:55:57,169
into this that we'll just be

1778
00:55:58,819 --> 00:55:59,069
able to provide answers. And I

1779
00:56:00,519 --> 00:56:00,769
think that's what Sussex was

1780
00:56:01,153 --> 00:56:01,403
able to do is if there was

1781
00:56:01,719 --> 00:56:01,969
something off.

1782
00:56:04,286 --> 00:56:04,536
I can provide you an answer of

1783
00:56:06,253 --> 00:56:06,503
why it was off. And sometimes it

1784
00:56:08,186 --> 00:56:08,436
has to be off because our

1785
00:56:08,686 --> 00:56:08,936
properties are so different in

1786
00:56:10,453 --> 00:56:10,703
our counties and it's so

1787
00:56:10,986 --> 00:56:11,236
different, especially when we're

1788
00:56:12,353 --> 00:56:12,603
talking about a beach community

1789
00:56:14,219 --> 00:56:14,469
to the western side of Sussex.

1790
00:56:14,853 --> 00:56:15,103
So that's important. I just

1791
00:56:16,486 --> 00:56:16,736
don't want us to make sure that

1792
00:56:18,519 --> 00:56:18,769
we have such strict guidelines

1793
00:56:20,619 --> 00:56:20,869
that we can't end up working

1794
00:56:22,319 --> 00:56:22,569
with the property owner, um.

1795
00:56:26,153 --> 00:56:26,403
That worries me the most, um,

1796
00:56:26,786 --> 00:56:27,036
and at no point have I ever

1797
00:56:30,386 --> 00:56:30,636
heard Justin say a CRD or

1798
00:56:32,319 --> 00:56:32,569
PRD PR anything would be at the

1799
00:56:34,353 --> 00:56:34,603
property level. It'll, you know,

1800
00:56:35,086 --> 00:56:35,336
I mean, you don't at the

1801
00:56:36,353 --> 00:56:36,603
property class, probably things

1802
00:56:38,419 --> 00:56:38,669
like that, you know,

1803
00:56:38,853 --> 00:56:39,103
residential, commercial things

1804
00:56:40,386 --> 00:56:40,636
like that, but we just need to

1805
00:56:40,986 --> 00:56:41,236
be careful with that because we

1806
00:56:42,486 --> 00:56:42,736
don't want to cause issues by

1807
00:56:44,519 --> 00:56:44,769
creating such strict standards

1808
00:56:48,219 --> 00:56:48,469
going forward. I agree. Um,

1809
00:56:50,386 --> 00:56:50,636
that's my biggest concern. Um,

1810
00:56:51,053 --> 00:56:51,303
again, we are

1811
00:56:52,353 --> 00:56:52,603
out with an RFP right now. We'll

1812
00:56:53,053 --> 00:56:53,303
know when.

1813
00:56:54,419 --> 00:56:54,669
In a couple of weeks, we'll have

1814
00:56:56,186 --> 00:56:56,436
responses back. We'll know what

1815
00:56:56,819 --> 00:56:57,069
the cost is and see what it is.

1816
00:56:58,486 --> 00:56:58,736
As far as the cost

1817
00:57:02,219 --> 00:57:02,469
effectiveness, it cost us $10

1818
00:57:04,186 --> 00:57:04,436
million and I expect it to be

1819
00:57:06,219 --> 00:57:06,469
about the same, if not more,

1820
00:57:08,186 --> 00:57:08,436
even if it's gonna be on a

1821
00:57:08,719 --> 00:57:08,969
digital level. Um, we'll know

1822
00:57:10,553 --> 00:57:10,803
more when we get it, but is it

1823
00:57:12,453 --> 00:57:12,703
really cost-effective? But we

1824
00:57:14,519 --> 00:57:14,769
are following what IAAO, their

1825
00:57:16,453 --> 00:57:16,703
standards in there and says, you

1826
00:57:18,286 --> 00:57:18,536
know, so many years you

1827
00:57:18,753 --> 00:57:19,003
shouldn't touch a property. So

1828
00:57:19,419 --> 00:57:19,669
we do need to

1829
00:57:22,486 --> 00:57:22,736
Rely on them to see what that

1830
00:57:23,086 --> 00:57:23,336
should be.

1831
00:57:26,386 --> 00:57:26,636
$10 million. So where's, how

1832
00:57:28,253 --> 00:57:28,503
much of that country and the

1833
00:57:28,919 --> 00:57:29,169
state? Yeah,

1834
00:57:30,219 --> 00:57:30,469
uh, nothing.

1835
00:57:32,353 --> 00:57:32,603
and we collect $19 million in

1836
00:57:34,386 --> 00:57:34,636
taxes in Sussex and it's costing

1837
00:57:36,353 --> 00:57:36,603
us 10 million every 5 years and

1838
00:57:38,353 --> 00:57:38,603
off balance you have more.

1839
00:57:42,219 --> 00:57:42,469
Properties you're, you're on the

1840
00:57:44,219 --> 00:57:44,469
same level as Newcastle as far

1841
00:57:44,919 --> 00:57:45,169
as we have over 200,000

1842
00:57:46,386 --> 00:57:46,636
properties.

1843
00:57:46,653 --> 00:57:46,903
Kent, do you know their number?

1844
00:57:48,553 --> 00:57:48,803
It's she sees on there, but it's

1845
00:57:50,519 --> 00:57:50,769
80,000 something like that. So

1846
00:57:52,519 --> 00:57:52,769
that's why we're around 5

1847
00:57:54,186 --> 00:57:54,436
million for reassessment, which

1848
00:57:56,219 --> 00:57:56,469
is still a big number because we

1849
00:57:56,853 --> 00:57:57,103
are the, we're the poor kids.

1850
00:58:00,286 --> 00:58:00,536
How many did you say properties?

1851
00:58:02,419 --> 00:58:02,669
80,000. Yeah, it's 200 it's

1852
00:58:04,419 --> 00:58:04,669
85,000, probably about Susan can

1853
00:58:06,286 --> 00:58:06,536
speak up if she wants, but ours

1854
00:58:08,419 --> 00:58:08,669
is like 205,000 and I think

1855
00:58:10,319 --> 00:58:10,569
Newcastle is close to that.

1856
00:58:10,953 --> 00:58:11,203
220.

1857
00:58:14,386 --> 00:58:14,636
That 5 million number for us is

1858
00:58:16,419 --> 00:58:16,669
huge. It's on the same par as

1859
00:58:18,286 --> 00:58:18,536
the 10 million. I don't know how

1860
00:58:18,953 --> 00:58:19,203
much yours was, probably.

1861
00:58:20,653 --> 00:58:20,903
More than that, over 20 million,

1862
00:58:21,353 --> 00:58:21,603
yeah.

1863
00:58:24,453 --> 00:58:24,703
And and counting.

1864
00:58:28,486 --> 00:58:28,736
And that's just and and still

1865
00:58:30,319 --> 00:58:30,569
and still going and

1866
00:58:30,786 --> 00:58:31,036
that's just money. I mean

1867
00:58:32,619 --> 00:58:32,869
there's no dedicated revenue

1868
00:58:33,186 --> 00:58:33,436
stream to

1869
00:58:36,219 --> 00:58:36,469
Fund that or anything like that,

1870
00:58:36,919 --> 00:58:37,169
it's just money.

1871
00:58:38,586 --> 00:58:38,836
It's necessary, but

1872
00:58:44,319 --> 00:58:44,569
Yeah,

1873
00:58:46,286 --> 00:58:46,536
and we can, I mean, that's, oh,

1874
00:58:46,986 --> 00:58:47,236
sorry, Rebecca Goldsmith, yes.

1875
00:58:48,419 --> 00:58:48,669
And then Bob.

1876
00:58:52,186 --> 00:58:52,436
Thank you. Real quick, we're

1877
00:58:54,286 --> 00:58:54,536
talking about um areas of

1878
00:58:54,853 --> 00:58:55,103
interest or things that, that we

1879
00:58:56,286 --> 00:58:56,536
may want to look at further.

1880
00:58:56,919 --> 00:58:57,169
Maybe the counties could talk a

1881
00:58:58,553 --> 00:58:58,803
little bit to the recorder of

1882
00:59:02,186 --> 00:59:02,436
deeds system versus the finance

1883
00:59:02,886 --> 00:59:03,136
system and you guys, I may have

1884
00:59:04,453 --> 00:59:04,703
this wrong, but I think in

1885
00:59:06,186 --> 00:59:06,436
trying to acquire data from all

1886
00:59:06,819 --> 00:59:07,069
of you, you know, there, there

1887
00:59:08,353 --> 00:59:08,603
are two disparate systems that

1888
00:59:10,319 --> 00:59:10,569
do not necessarily link

1889
00:59:12,319 --> 00:59:12,569
together. So when you're looking

1890
00:59:14,253 --> 00:59:14,503
for how much tax was paid or

1891
00:59:14,853 --> 00:59:15,103
you're looking for an assessed

1892
00:59:16,353 --> 00:59:16,603
value, you may be coming from

1893
00:59:18,186 --> 00:59:18,436
two totally different places to

1894
00:59:18,819 --> 00:59:19,069
figure out like who's current,

1895
00:59:19,419 --> 00:59:19,669
who's not current, what was the

1896
00:59:20,119 --> 00:59:20,369
assessment was.

1897
00:59:22,453 --> 00:59:22,703
The zoning is in one system, and

1898
00:59:24,219 --> 00:59:24,469
what was actually paid in taxes

1899
00:59:24,953 --> 00:59:25,203
and other system, and we don't

1900
00:59:26,319 --> 00:59:26,569
have to solve this today, but I

1901
00:59:28,219 --> 00:59:28,469
mean, it, it, it may be worth a

1902
00:59:28,919 --> 00:59:29,169
discussion about like, look, as

1903
00:59:30,386 --> 00:59:30,636
you, as you do these

1904
00:59:32,353 --> 00:59:32,603
evaluations, you know, what,

1905
00:59:34,219 --> 00:59:34,469
what is the difficulty in

1906
00:59:36,453 --> 00:59:36,703
actually getting the data and

1907
00:59:38,353 --> 00:59:38,603
someplace that's like meaningful

1908
00:59:39,019 --> 00:59:39,269
for evaluation.

1909
00:59:42,219 --> 00:59:42,469
I don't know if the counties

1910
00:59:42,853 --> 00:59:43,103
have thoughts on that or if they

1911
00:59:44,386 --> 00:59:44,636
think it's fine, but, but my, in

1912
00:59:46,419 --> 00:59:46,669
my experience, it's, it was that

1913
00:59:48,353 --> 00:59:48,603
the data, the data was housed in

1914
00:59:50,453 --> 00:59:50,703
two separate places that don't

1915
00:59:51,186 --> 00:59:51,436
necessarily sync with one

1916
00:59:52,219 --> 00:59:52,469
another. So when you're trying

1917
00:59:52,853 --> 00:59:53,103
to match things up, it can be

1918
00:59:53,453 --> 00:59:53,703
difficult.

1919
00:59:56,486 --> 00:59:56,736
So

1920
01:00:00,553 --> 01:00:00,803
So we do have a separate deed

1921
01:00:04,319 --> 01:00:04,569
system, but we do have a link to

1922
01:00:06,319 --> 01:00:06,569
our CAMA system, our assessment

1923
01:00:06,953 --> 01:00:07,203
system, and there are some

1924
01:00:08,419 --> 01:00:08,669
checks and balances, whether

1925
01:00:10,253 --> 01:00:10,503
they record a sale and how we

1926
01:00:10,853 --> 01:00:11,103
put it in there. So depending,

1927
01:00:12,386 --> 01:00:12,636
there are two separate systems,

1928
01:00:14,319 --> 01:00:14,569
We do try to link them up as

1929
01:00:16,219 --> 01:00:16,469
the best that we can. Um, I know

1930
01:00:16,886 --> 01:00:17,136
Rebecca and I have talked

1931
01:00:18,419 --> 01:00:18,669
multiple times with other, you

1932
01:00:20,353 --> 01:00:20,603
know, efforts to get that data

1933
01:00:22,419 --> 01:00:22,669
out there, um, but we're always

1934
01:00:24,319 --> 01:00:24,569
trying to better that linkage,

1935
01:00:24,986 --> 01:00:25,236
but she is right, it's two

1936
01:00:26,286 --> 01:00:26,536
separate systems.

1937
01:00:28,453 --> 01:00:28,703
At least in Sussex can be

1938
01:00:30,386 --> 01:00:30,636
expensive. Those can be, do you

1939
01:00:31,053 --> 01:00:31,303
know what I mean? So the extent

1940
01:00:32,419 --> 01:00:32,669
if you want to move forward or

1941
01:00:34,186 --> 01:00:34,436
you want something integrated,

1942
01:00:34,853 --> 01:00:35,103
if that's a, if that's

1943
01:00:36,419 --> 01:00:36,669
ultimately a solution to getting

1944
01:00:37,086 --> 01:00:37,336
information out. It's more a

1945
01:00:38,453 --> 01:00:38,703
matter of those things, you

1946
01:00:40,253 --> 01:00:40,503
know, in my experience, don't

1947
01:00:42,286 --> 01:00:42,536
happen quickly and they, they're

1948
01:00:42,953 --> 01:00:43,203
not cheap.

1949
01:00:48,386 --> 01:00:48,636
If they're done well, can you

1950
01:00:48,986 --> 01:00:49,236
break down a little bit I

1951
01:00:50,519 --> 01:00:50,769
understand the reporter deeds

1952
01:00:52,319 --> 01:00:52,569
system, but then there's the

1953
01:00:54,319 --> 01:00:54,569
finance system. Do you have

1954
01:00:56,219 --> 01:00:56,469
access to that, Gina? Yeah,

1955
01:00:58,219 --> 01:00:58,469
yeah, so record our deeds, it

1956
01:00:58,853 --> 01:00:59,103
records the transfer of the

1957
01:01:00,419 --> 01:01:00,669
property. It's the main

1958
01:01:02,219 --> 01:01:02,469
ownership and then we have the

1959
01:01:04,319 --> 01:01:04,569
sales record as well. The

1960
01:01:06,219 --> 01:01:06,469
finance side is more the

1961
01:01:06,819 --> 01:01:07,069
assessment side with the where

1962
01:01:08,486 --> 01:01:08,736
it has the appraisal, the

1963
01:01:10,386 --> 01:01:10,636
comparables, and things like

1964
01:01:11,053 --> 01:01:11,303
that. So we have to take the

1965
01:01:12,586 --> 01:01:12,836
ownership from the deeds over to

1966
01:01:14,553 --> 01:01:14,803
the finance system and then we

1967
01:01:15,253 --> 01:01:15,503
also record the sales.

1968
01:01:18,186 --> 01:01:18,436
Data that deeds would have over

1969
01:01:18,853 --> 01:01:19,103
to that

1970
01:01:20,453 --> 01:01:20,703
so that's the finance side,

1971
01:01:22,286 --> 01:01:22,536
finance assessment type, no,

1972
01:01:24,419 --> 01:01:24,669
just us finance at the state

1973
01:01:26,253 --> 01:01:26,503
side absolutely doesn't link at

1974
01:01:28,286 --> 01:01:28,536
all. None of those systems

1975
01:01:28,853 --> 01:01:29,103
linked to theirs.

1976
01:01:30,386 --> 01:01:30,636
OK. Same in New Castle County.

1977
01:01:34,186 --> 01:01:34,436
Reported deeds is separate

1978
01:01:34,786 --> 01:01:35,036
independent of the finance

1979
01:01:35,386 --> 01:01:35,636
office.

1980
01:01:40,619 --> 01:01:40,869
Would it help to have a feed or

1981
01:01:42,586 --> 01:01:42,836
no, it's just, it's just, is it

1982
01:01:44,486 --> 01:01:44,736
manual inquiry? I think a big

1983
01:01:46,419 --> 01:01:46,669
part of it is that for our

1984
01:01:48,219 --> 01:01:48,469
recorder of deeds, a lot of the

1985
01:01:48,919 --> 01:01:49,169
information is not recorded by

1986
01:01:50,553 --> 01:01:50,803
parcel, and we live in parcel,

1987
01:01:52,453 --> 01:01:52,703
So if there was a direct link

1988
01:01:54,219 --> 01:01:54,469
between parcel, it would be

1989
01:01:54,786 --> 01:01:55,036
easier, but that's kind of where

1990
01:01:56,253 --> 01:01:56,503
we found some of our stumbling

1991
01:01:56,953 --> 01:01:57,203
boxes at.

1992
01:01:58,519 --> 01:01:58,769
It's not, it's recorded more by

1993
01:02:00,419 --> 01:02:00,669
a transaction and not a parcel

1994
01:02:01,086 --> 01:02:01,336
and recorder of deeds, so

1995
01:02:02,586 --> 01:02:02,836
getting the information out was

1996
01:02:04,319 --> 01:02:04,569
It's not, it's recorded more by

1997
01:02:05,053 --> 01:02:05,303
a transaction and not a parcel

1998
01:02:05,753 --> 01:02:06,003
and recorder of deeds. So

1999
01:02:06,353 --> 01:02:06,603
getting the information out.

2000
01:02:06,953 --> 01:02:07,203
There's no personal ID in the

2001
01:02:08,419 --> 01:02:08,669
there is, but the reporting of

2002
01:02:10,486 --> 01:02:10,736
it, they rely on book and page

2003
01:02:12,486 --> 01:02:12,736
number more so than there is a

2004
01:02:14,353 --> 01:02:14,603
parcel number on there, but

2005
01:02:16,319 --> 01:02:16,569
their system right now is a lot

2006
01:02:17,053 --> 01:02:17,303
related to page.

2007
01:02:18,386 --> 01:02:18,636
Yeah.

2008
01:02:22,286 --> 01:02:22,536
I mean we can also look at

2009
01:02:22,886 --> 01:02:23,136
recommendation, you know, it's

2010
01:02:24,286 --> 01:02:24,536
not necessarily we're gonna

2011
01:02:24,919 --> 01:02:25,169
change it, but we could look at

2012
01:02:26,353 --> 01:02:26,603
recommendations because

2013
01:02:28,219 --> 01:02:28,469
recommendations can help people

2014
01:02:30,353 --> 01:02:30,603
budget those changes as well, so

2015
01:02:31,086 --> 01:02:31,336
I, I don't think for this group

2016
01:02:32,386 --> 01:02:32,636
it's necessarily a, a hurdle.

2017
01:02:34,219 --> 01:02:34,469
It's going to be when we get to

2018
01:02:34,886 --> 01:02:35,136
the other assessment group when

2019
01:02:36,453 --> 01:02:36,703
we talk about programs and

2020
01:02:38,353 --> 01:02:38,603
looking at data on properties,

2021
01:02:40,253 --> 01:02:40,503
which

2022
01:02:40,553 --> 01:02:40,803
got you Rebecca will serve as

2023
01:02:42,253 --> 01:02:42,503
well as I know.

2024
01:02:42,586 --> 01:02:42,836
S

2025
01:02:46,319 --> 01:02:46,569
Uh, Bob.

2026
01:02:48,419 --> 01:02:48,669
So I have a statement and then I

2027
01:02:52,386 --> 01:02:52,636
have a question. Um, on the

2028
01:02:54,286 --> 01:02:54,536
small business side of things, I

2029
01:02:56,286 --> 01:02:56,536
mean, obviously, what happened

2030
01:02:58,186 --> 01:02:58,436
this last time it hurt a lot of

2031
01:02:58,819 --> 01:02:59,069
small business owners because

2032
01:02:59,453 --> 01:02:59,703
they got hit at home and they

2033
01:03:00,286 --> 01:03:00,536
got hit at work, but

2034
01:03:02,386 --> 01:03:02,636
I think that one thing I've

2035
01:03:04,319 --> 01:03:04,569
listened to here, and I've heard

2036
01:03:06,186 --> 01:03:06,436
a lot of people say they were OK

2037
01:03:06,953 --> 01:03:07,203
with the way it was done. I

2038
01:03:08,286 --> 01:03:08,536
understand there's a big cost

2039
01:03:10,219 --> 01:03:10,469
involved here, but I think the

2040
01:03:12,219 --> 01:03:12,469
problem was, for a lot of us,

2041
01:03:14,319 --> 01:03:14,569
was that it really hasn't been

2042
01:03:16,286 --> 01:03:16,536
done in some cases up to 51

2043
01:03:18,453 --> 01:03:18,703
years ago, so between 40 and 51

2044
01:03:20,419 --> 01:03:20,669
years. And I think that's what

2045
01:03:22,419 --> 01:03:22,669
hurt is that it was a big jump,

2046
01:03:26,219 --> 01:03:26,469
and I, and I'm hoping that that

2047
01:03:26,919 --> 01:03:27,169
in the future that you look at

2048
01:03:28,353 --> 01:03:28,603
this, that there is a more of a

2049
01:03:30,253 --> 01:03:30,503
better timeline. And, and my

2050
01:03:30,919 --> 01:03:31,169
other, my question to this is, I

2051
01:03:31,619 --> 01:03:31,869
know.

2052
01:03:32,286 --> 01:03:32,536
You said you have another group.

2053
01:03:34,386 --> 01:03:34,636
I'm hoping these two groups will

2054
01:03:36,386 --> 01:03:36,636
talk to each other a little bit

2055
01:03:38,419 --> 01:03:38,669
and share some things so that

2056
01:03:40,386 --> 01:03:40,636
we're not hit at the end with,

2057
01:03:42,219 --> 01:03:42,469
oh, they, they completely went

2058
01:03:42,853 --> 01:03:43,103
against everything we stood for,

2059
01:03:43,486 --> 01:03:43,736
so to speak.

2060
01:03:50,219 --> 01:03:50,469
Thank you, Bob. Thank you. And

2061
01:03:50,886 --> 01:03:51,136
we'll, we'll be following that

2062
01:03:51,553 --> 01:03:51,803
other group, um.

2063
01:03:54,353 --> 01:03:54,603
And trying to keep them updated

2064
01:03:56,186 --> 01:03:56,436
on what we're doing as well and

2065
01:03:56,853 --> 01:03:57,103
like I said earlier really

2066
01:03:58,353 --> 01:03:58,603
making sure we're we're not

2067
01:03:58,919 --> 01:03:59,169
dipping our toe into policy

2068
01:04:00,519 --> 01:04:00,769
changes, so yeah, right.

2069
01:04:04,286 --> 01:04:04,536
I, and I appreciate Bob's

2070
01:04:06,186 --> 01:04:06,436
comments and, and for me

2071
01:04:06,719 --> 01:04:06,969
personally, and I think on

2072
01:04:07,253 --> 01:04:07,503
behalf of the county, um,

2073
01:04:10,419 --> 01:04:10,669
We're not, we weren't OK with

2074
01:04:12,253 --> 01:04:12,503
anything. It is what it is. It's

2075
01:04:14,186 --> 01:04:14,436
what we were kind of saying, I

2076
01:04:14,819 --> 01:04:15,069
think on behalf of the county

2077
01:04:16,186 --> 01:04:16,436
cause I was actually a levee

2078
01:04:18,219 --> 01:04:18,469
court commissioner when we were

2079
01:04:20,353 --> 01:04:20,603
beginning this process, um, so I

2080
01:04:21,053 --> 01:04:21,303
was involved in some of these

2081
01:04:24,253 --> 01:04:24,503
early conversations. It was more

2082
01:04:26,319 --> 01:04:26,569
to say, look, it is what it is.

2083
01:04:26,953 --> 01:04:27,203
The courts have mandated it,

2084
01:04:28,653 --> 01:04:28,903
we've got to go through it. Stop

2085
01:04:30,486 --> 01:04:30,736
whining about it, and let's just

2086
01:04:32,253 --> 01:04:32,503
figure it out. And so I think

2087
01:04:34,353 --> 01:04:34,603
that's where Ken was anyway,

2088
01:04:34,953 --> 01:04:35,203
was.

2089
01:04:38,219 --> 01:04:38,469
We made the best of a difficult

2090
01:04:38,853 --> 01:04:39,103
situation, and we think we're

2091
01:04:39,453 --> 01:04:39,703
OK.

2092
01:04:40,786 --> 01:04:41,036
And if there are any changes, we

2093
01:04:42,453 --> 01:04:42,703
just like to be made aware

2094
01:04:42,986 --> 01:04:43,236
cause we think we're good.

2095
01:04:46,386 --> 01:04:46,636
I think it's fair for me to say

2096
01:04:48,286 --> 01:04:48,536
that on behalf of the county and

2097
01:04:49,019 --> 01:04:49,269
Susan can correct me if I'm

2098
01:04:50,319 --> 01:04:50,569
wrong, but that's where I think

2099
01:04:51,019 --> 01:04:51,269
we are.

2100
01:04:54,153 --> 01:04:54,403
No disrespect to Sussex, I got

2101
01:04:54,853 --> 01:04:55,103
your back, but you know, I'm in

2102
01:04:56,186 --> 01:04:56,436
No disrespect to Sussex. I got

2103
01:04:56,853 --> 01:04:57,103
your back, but, you know, I'm

2104
01:04:57,453 --> 01:04:57,703
King County right now. Let me

2105
01:04:58,153 --> 01:04:58,403
No disrespect to Sussex. I got

2106
01:04:58,853 --> 01:04:59,103
your back, but, you know, I'm

2107
01:04:59,453 --> 01:04:59,703
King County right now. Well let

2108
01:05:00,153 --> 01:05:00,403
me ask this, does anybody have,

2109
01:05:00,886 --> 01:05:01,136
it sounds like you know, you

2110
01:05:01,453 --> 01:05:01,703
like your process. Does anyone

2111
01:05:02,153 --> 01:05:02,403
have their process and

2112
01:05:02,686 --> 01:05:02,936
everything documented? Like, is

2113
01:05:03,319 --> 01:05:03,569
there a like you like.

2114
01:05:10,386 --> 01:05:10,636
That we can also leverage um.

2115
01:05:14,253 --> 01:05:14,503
Our administrative process is

2116
01:05:16,319 --> 01:05:16,569
pretty well documented for the

2117
01:05:18,419 --> 01:05:18,669
doc for the appeals process, all

2118
01:05:19,119 --> 01:05:19,369
of that, um.

2119
01:05:24,186 --> 01:05:24,436
But as far as standards or

2120
01:05:26,186 --> 01:05:26,436
anything like that we do not

2121
01:05:26,819 --> 01:05:27,069
have those

2122
01:05:32,186 --> 01:05:32,436
Um, I was like, can we just wrap

2123
01:05:34,186 --> 01:05:34,436
this whole working group up

2124
01:05:34,786 --> 01:05:35,036
today? We'll just a doctor?

2125
01:05:36,353 --> 01:05:36,603
No, no,

2126
01:05:36,603 --> 01:05:36,853
If we could discuss at some

2127
01:05:38,253 --> 01:05:38,503
point the appeal process. I

2128
01:05:40,253 --> 01:05:40,503
mean, right now, it's very

2129
01:05:40,886 --> 01:05:41,136
lengthy,

2130
01:05:42,453 --> 01:05:42,703
very expensive, and we want to

2131
01:05:44,486 --> 01:05:44,736
have every homeowner taxpayer to

2132
01:05:46,586 --> 01:05:46,836
have their due process, but, um,

2133
01:05:48,453 --> 01:05:48,703
going from informal appeals to

2134
01:05:52,619 --> 01:05:52,869
appeal to uh referee to board of

2135
01:05:56,219 --> 01:05:56,469
assessment review to Superior

2136
01:05:58,286 --> 01:05:58,536
Court or um whatever court it

2137
01:05:58,886 --> 01:05:59,136
goes to, it's very.

2138
01:06:02,186 --> 01:06:02,436
Long and very pricey. Um, and it

2139
01:06:02,853 --> 01:06:03,103
could be 6 to 8 months to, to

2140
01:06:03,453 --> 01:06:03,703
settle.

2141
01:06:04,386 --> 01:06:04,636
One single appeal.

2142
01:06:06,453 --> 01:06:06,703
And since we're doing

2143
01:06:08,353 --> 01:06:08,603
reassessments every 5 years,

2144
01:06:10,353 --> 01:06:10,603
that is going to be a lengthy

2145
01:06:12,319 --> 01:06:12,569
part of our process. Um, I do

2146
01:06:14,219 --> 01:06:14,469
know the courts are having some

2147
01:06:16,319 --> 01:06:16,569
concern about, um, appeals

2148
01:06:18,153 --> 01:06:18,403
coming to their level and tying

2149
01:06:18,786 --> 01:06:19,036
up the court and their ability

2150
01:06:20,486 --> 01:06:20,736
to see them in a timely manner.

2151
01:06:22,419 --> 01:06:22,669
So I think ultimately getting

2152
01:06:24,386 --> 01:06:24,636
the assessment right is our

2153
01:06:26,253 --> 01:06:26,503
goal, but we know there's going

2154
01:06:26,886 --> 01:06:27,136
to be fallout every time, so

2155
01:06:30,253 --> 01:06:30,503
something we can discuss to

2156
01:06:30,886 --> 01:06:31,136
perhaps make that process a

2157
01:06:32,253 --> 01:06:32,503
little more efficient.

2158
01:06:34,253 --> 01:06:34,503
Are you guys experiencing the

2159
01:06:34,953 --> 01:06:35,203
same thing with the appeals

2160
01:06:35,553 --> 01:06:35,803
process?

2161
01:06:38,519 --> 01:06:38,769
No, we have less than 1% and we

2162
01:06:39,219 --> 01:06:39,469
have now.

2163
01:06:42,486 --> 01:06:42,736
4 this year, maybe 2 next year,

2164
01:06:44,353 --> 01:06:44,603
so we're not at that we.

2165
01:06:46,586 --> 01:06:46,836
Have as many as they have. Do

2166
01:06:48,519 --> 01:06:48,769
you follow the same steps? Is it

2167
01:06:50,586 --> 01:06:50,836
the same, uh, does it go through

2168
01:06:52,586 --> 01:06:52,836
the same steps. So we had an

2169
01:06:54,519 --> 01:06:54,769
informal process first when

2170
01:06:56,386 --> 01:06:56,636
Tyler was there, and then we had

2171
01:06:58,486 --> 01:06:58,736
a referee process and then to

2172
01:07:00,586 --> 01:07:00,836
the board and then to court. Um,

2173
01:07:02,386 --> 01:07:02,636
we only had one that went to

2174
01:07:04,386 --> 01:07:04,636
court and then I think they must

2175
01:07:05,119 --> 01:07:05,369
have dropped out cause we never

2176
01:07:06,519 --> 01:07:06,769
heard anything since so that was

2177
01:07:08,586 --> 01:07:08,836
it. Ours is pretty simple. I

2178
01:07:10,486 --> 01:07:10,736
will say New Castle County has a

2179
01:07:11,253 --> 01:07:11,503
more litigious they do.

2180
01:07:14,286 --> 01:07:14,536
And more complicated,

2181
01:07:14,786 --> 01:07:15,036
complicated,

2182
01:07:16,486 --> 01:07:16,736
yes,

2183
01:07:20,219 --> 01:07:20,469
yes, a huge percentage of the uh

2184
01:07:20,919 --> 01:07:21,169
a huge percentage of the

2185
01:07:22,353 --> 01:07:22,603
appraisal requests coming into

2186
01:07:24,453 --> 01:07:24,703
my appraisal brokerage right

2187
01:07:26,553 --> 01:07:26,803
now, a huge percentage of our

2188
01:07:28,353 --> 01:07:28,603
business, I'm not handling them

2189
01:07:29,019 --> 01:07:29,269
personally, are

2190
01:07:32,486 --> 01:07:32,736
Appeals in New Castle County.

2191
01:07:34,519 --> 01:07:34,769
And one of the reasons is

2192
01:07:35,119 --> 01:07:35,369
because

2193
01:07:38,453 --> 01:07:38,703
I, I have not heard of many

2194
01:07:42,319 --> 01:07:42,569
appeals that were denied when

2195
01:07:44,386 --> 01:07:44,636
the person came in with an

2196
01:07:46,653 --> 01:07:46,903
appraisal or an appraiser. And I

2197
01:07:48,519 --> 01:07:48,769
have heard of some that were.

2198
01:07:49,119 --> 01:07:49,369
So,

2199
01:07:52,386 --> 01:07:52,636
To the point of the, the appeals

2200
01:07:54,286 --> 01:07:54,536
process being long and

2201
01:07:56,186 --> 01:07:56,436
expensive, it's probably long

2202
01:07:56,886 --> 01:07:57,136
and expensive on the county,

2203
01:07:58,419 --> 01:07:58,669
It's long expensive on the

2204
01:08:00,253 --> 01:08:00,503
homeowner or the business owner,

2205
01:08:02,319 --> 01:08:02,569
and it's, it's clogging up

2206
01:08:04,319 --> 01:08:04,569
appraisers, which means it's

2207
01:08:06,219 --> 01:08:06,469
also clogging up other real

2208
01:08:08,453 --> 01:08:08,703
estate transactions. Um, it's

2209
01:08:09,119 --> 01:08:09,369
been

2210
01:08:12,186 --> 01:08:12,436
It's been lengthy and

2211
01:08:12,653 --> 01:08:12,903
interesting. Again, uh, uh, due

2212
01:08:14,553 --> 01:08:14,803
to a conflict, I haven't not, I

2213
01:08:16,419 --> 01:08:16,669
haven't done any, but my mentor,

2214
01:08:18,353 --> 01:08:18,603
the one who I'm, the person I'm

2215
01:08:19,053 --> 01:08:19,303
apprenticed under.

2216
01:08:22,386 --> 01:08:22,636
Man, he is getting slammed by

2217
01:08:24,219 --> 01:08:24,469
requests, and there's just not

2218
01:08:24,819 --> 01:08:25,069
that many appraisers to go

2219
01:08:26,519 --> 01:08:26,769
around to handle all of the

2220
01:08:28,419 --> 01:08:28,669
appeals just in New Castle

2221
01:08:30,453 --> 01:08:30,703
County. And again, not to pick

2222
01:08:32,186 --> 01:08:32,436
on New Castle County, but that

2223
01:08:32,819 --> 01:08:33,069
seems to be where

2224
01:08:34,519 --> 01:08:34,769
A huge percentage of the appeals

2225
01:08:35,219 --> 01:08:35,469
are coming from.

2226
01:08:40,386 --> 01:08:40,636
I'd say that reflects our

2227
01:08:42,153 --> 01:08:42,403
industry as well. We had some

2228
01:08:44,219 --> 01:08:44,469
farmers who haven't like

2229
01:08:44,719 --> 01:08:44,969
recently not got their stuff,

2230
01:08:46,519 --> 01:08:46,769
uh settled from last year, we've

2231
01:08:48,386 --> 01:08:48,636
had farmers who they were

2232
01:08:50,253 --> 01:08:50,503
notified that Thursday that they

2233
01:08:50,986 --> 01:08:51,236
had a hearing and they needed to

2234
01:08:52,486 --> 01:08:52,736
get an appraiser for that next

2235
01:08:56,386 --> 01:08:56,636
Tuesday, um, and so I think

2236
01:08:58,419 --> 01:08:58,669
consistency among the three

2237
01:09:00,486 --> 01:09:00,736
counties with how the appeal

2238
01:09:02,353 --> 01:09:02,603
process is. I mean, New Castle

2239
01:09:04,286 --> 01:09:04,536
County is incredibly dense and

2240
01:09:06,353 --> 01:09:06,603
quite frankly, just, it sucked,

2241
01:09:07,019 --> 01:09:07,269
it sucked for everyone, and so,

2242
01:09:10,386 --> 01:09:10,636
We would be interested in

2243
01:09:12,219 --> 01:09:12,469
talking about the appeal process

2244
01:09:12,953 --> 01:09:13,203
too because for our guys we want

2245
01:09:14,386 --> 01:09:14,636
them to, we want it just as fair

2246
01:09:16,186 --> 01:09:16,436
because a lot of them don't

2247
01:09:16,819 --> 01:09:17,069
understand, a lot of these

2248
01:09:18,286 --> 01:09:18,536
appraisers don't understand the

2249
01:09:20,219 --> 01:09:20,469
difference between land that

2250
01:09:20,853 --> 01:09:21,103
you're growing crops on and land

2251
01:09:22,319 --> 01:09:22,569
that you want to build a

2252
01:09:22,853 --> 01:09:23,103
warehouse on, and so that's

2253
01:09:26,286 --> 01:09:26,536
something that we appeal process

2254
01:09:26,986 --> 01:09:27,236
and all would be very interested

2255
01:09:27,686 --> 01:09:27,936
in talking about.

2256
01:09:32,219 --> 01:09:32,469
So was the, were most of the

2257
01:09:34,219 --> 01:09:34,469
appeals from the farming

2258
01:09:36,219 --> 01:09:36,469
community based on the land

2259
01:09:38,186 --> 01:09:38,436
valuations versus structures. Is

2260
01:09:40,319 --> 01:09:40,569
that OK and structures a whole

2261
01:09:42,386 --> 01:09:42,636
other ballgame and I, I, we were

2262
01:09:44,286 --> 01:09:44,536
there all throughout the hearing

2263
01:09:44,919 --> 01:09:45,169
last month, and you know, you

2264
01:09:46,486 --> 01:09:46,736
all heard me beat my drum and we

2265
01:09:48,219 --> 01:09:48,469
won't ever stop beating our

2266
01:09:48,853 --> 01:09:49,103
drum, but that's a policy issue,

2267
01:09:52,219 --> 01:09:52,469
so in terms of the statutory

2268
01:09:52,853 --> 01:09:53,103
regulatory framework when it

2269
01:09:56,319 --> 01:09:56,569
comes to um ag and structures

2270
01:09:58,486 --> 01:09:58,736
and land, um, I think for us to

2271
01:09:59,219 --> 01:09:59,469
not

2272
01:10:02,286 --> 01:10:02,536
Mix in too much of the other

2273
01:10:04,219 --> 01:10:04,469
stuff going on, um, it would be

2274
01:10:06,219 --> 01:10:06,469
helpful to just talk about

2275
01:10:08,219 --> 01:10:08,469
standards that could be

2276
01:10:08,719 --> 01:10:08,969
applicable and doesn't

2277
01:10:10,486 --> 01:10:10,736
necessarily just throw farmers

2278
01:10:12,419 --> 01:10:12,669
into your commercial or throw

2279
01:10:13,019 --> 01:10:13,269
them into residential, um.

2280
01:10:16,286 --> 01:10:16,536
Something that's flexible and

2281
01:10:16,953 --> 01:10:17,203
which I think we talked about

2282
01:10:18,253 --> 01:10:18,503
with not keeping things in a

2283
01:10:18,819 --> 01:10:19,069
box, but a little bit more

2284
01:10:20,519 --> 01:10:20,769
flexibility, I think would help

2285
01:10:22,386 --> 01:10:22,636
at least our community. So with

2286
01:10:23,053 --> 01:10:23,303
not keeping things in a box, but

2287
01:10:23,719 --> 01:10:23,969
a little bit more flexibility, I

2288
01:10:24,419 --> 01:10:24,669
think would help at least our

2289
01:10:25,019 --> 01:10:25,269
community. So was the appeals

2290
01:10:25,619 --> 01:10:25,869
process challenging and, and

2291
01:10:28,386 --> 01:10:28,636
Just the length and in Kent and

2292
01:10:29,019 --> 01:10:29,269
Kent and Newcastle.

2293
01:10:32,186 --> 01:10:32,436
I think just all of it. I think

2294
01:10:32,919 --> 01:10:33,169
it was brand new, uh, it was

2295
01:10:34,286 --> 01:10:34,536
brand new. A lot of these

2296
01:10:36,186 --> 01:10:36,436
farmers look at this piece of

2297
01:10:36,853 --> 01:10:37,103
paper and they're like,

2298
01:10:38,486 --> 01:10:38,736
what am I reading? Granted

2299
01:10:40,353 --> 01:10:40,603
all this, I don't know what

2300
01:10:40,953 --> 01:10:41,203
you're reading.

2301
01:10:42,319 --> 01:10:42,569
And so, um.

2302
01:10:46,286 --> 01:10:46,536
In those terms, it also took a

2303
01:10:48,186 --> 01:10:48,436
little bit more, I think there's

2304
01:10:50,219 --> 01:10:50,469
a need for explanation, so at

2305
01:10:50,786 --> 01:10:51,036
least in Kent County, we had a

2306
01:10:52,319 --> 01:10:52,569
lot of farmers who, you know,

2307
01:10:54,219 --> 01:10:54,469
both had poultry houses, but one

2308
01:10:54,853 --> 01:10:55,103
poultry house was significantly

2309
01:10:56,353 --> 01:10:56,603
newer than the other one, but

2310
01:10:56,986 --> 01:10:57,236
they make the same amount of

2311
01:10:58,619 --> 01:10:58,869
money and so explaining the

2312
01:11:00,419 --> 01:11:00,669
difference in, you know, real

2313
01:11:02,219 --> 01:11:02,469
estate then and, you know,

2314
01:11:04,319 --> 01:11:04,569
structures in its own was the

2315
01:11:06,186 --> 01:11:06,436
issue. When it comes to appeals

2316
01:11:08,353 --> 01:11:08,603
though, I think it was more of

2317
01:11:09,053 --> 01:11:09,303
the structures, especially our

2318
01:11:10,353 --> 01:11:10,603
poultry houses, cause we had

2319
01:11:10,953 --> 01:11:11,203
some poultry houses up north

2320
01:11:12,353 --> 01:11:12,603
that uh were assessed at a

2321
01:11:16,153 --> 01:11:16,403
Two, two-story buildings, um, I

2322
01:11:16,819 --> 01:11:17,069
don't know if you've been in a

2323
01:11:18,353 --> 01:11:18,603
poultry house. They're

2324
01:11:20,486 --> 01:11:20,736
two-story. So it was, it, it's

2325
01:11:22,219 --> 01:11:22,469
things like that where they did

2326
01:11:22,919 --> 01:11:23,169
the aerial imaging because of

2327
01:11:24,419 --> 01:11:24,669
biosecurity and our HBAI

2328
01:11:26,386 --> 01:11:26,636
concerns that um I think during

2329
01:11:28,353 --> 01:11:28,603
the reassessment process on its

2330
01:11:30,386 --> 01:11:30,636
own, um, had issues cause you

2331
01:11:31,053 --> 01:11:31,303
can't just look at a big

2332
01:11:32,219 --> 01:11:32,469
building and you don't know what

2333
01:11:32,886 --> 01:11:33,136
you're looking at if you've

2334
01:11:33,486 --> 01:11:33,736
never seen a poultry house

2335
01:11:34,086 --> 01:11:34,336
before.

2336
01:11:36,219 --> 01:11:36,469
I have not.

2337
01:11:38,353 --> 01:11:38,603
We can take you to one if you

2338
01:11:38,986 --> 01:11:39,236
want. I know, I know,

2339
01:11:40,453 --> 01:11:40,703
I know.

2340
01:11:44,186 --> 01:11:44,436
Thank you, Sydney, thank you,

2341
01:11:44,853 --> 01:11:45,103
uh, rich.

2342
01:11:48,286 --> 01:11:48,536
Uh,

2343
01:11:50,486 --> 01:11:50,736
It's uh hopefully I'm not muted.

2344
01:11:54,419 --> 01:11:54,669
No, you're, you're good. We can

2345
01:11:55,119 --> 01:11:55,369
hear you. Good. Uh,

2346
01:11:58,219 --> 01:11:58,469
what was said a few moments ago

2347
01:12:00,219 --> 01:12:00,469
about the recorder of deeds and

2348
01:12:02,319 --> 01:12:02,569
the finance and communication

2349
01:12:04,286 --> 01:12:04,536
between them, raised in my mind

2350
01:12:06,153 --> 01:12:06,403
the idea of

2351
01:12:08,586 --> 01:12:08,836
doing a better job of using

2352
01:12:10,486 --> 01:12:10,736
technology to make the process

2353
01:12:12,286 --> 01:12:12,536
more efficient and less

2354
01:12:14,486 --> 01:12:14,736
expensive, and whether the state

2355
01:12:16,319 --> 01:12:16,569
can play, can play a role in

2356
01:12:16,986 --> 01:12:17,236
that with the states.

2357
01:12:18,553 --> 01:12:18,803
Uh, technology office.

2358
01:12:22,453 --> 01:12:22,703
Um, is, is one thing I think is

2359
01:12:24,186 --> 01:12:24,436
probably worth exploring. I

2360
01:12:24,819 --> 01:12:25,069
don't know what the answer is,

2361
01:12:26,186 --> 01:12:26,436
but it's probably worth looking

2362
01:12:26,786 --> 01:12:27,036
into that sort of thing. And

2363
01:12:30,219 --> 01:12:30,469
also just generally looking into

2364
01:12:32,186 --> 01:12:32,436
standards, talking about the use

2365
01:12:34,553 --> 01:12:34,803
of computer technology. Uh, when

2366
01:12:36,253 --> 01:12:36,503
we were doing the lawsuit, I

2367
01:12:38,319 --> 01:12:38,569
talked to a uh

2368
01:12:42,219 --> 01:12:42,469
municipal chief assessment

2369
01:12:42,786 --> 01:12:43,036
officer

2370
01:12:44,419 --> 01:12:44,669
outside of Delaware, where they,

2371
01:12:46,353 --> 01:12:46,603
where they do the assessment

2372
01:12:48,253 --> 01:12:48,503
every year, and there's there's

2373
01:12:48,919 --> 01:12:49,169
good reasons for that in terms

2374
01:12:49,553 --> 01:12:49,803
of fairness to the taxpayers.

2375
01:12:52,419 --> 01:12:52,669
But they didn't have to do a

2376
01:12:54,219 --> 01:12:54,469
full-blown assessment because it

2377
01:12:56,419 --> 01:12:56,669
was computerized, and they had

2378
01:12:58,319 --> 01:12:58,569
accurate data. Literally all

2379
01:13:00,253 --> 01:13:00,503
they had to do was, you know,

2380
01:13:02,219 --> 01:13:02,469
plug some numbers into the

2381
01:13:02,786 --> 01:13:03,036
computer each year and got the

2382
01:13:08,253 --> 01:13:08,503
Got, got accurate results, uh,

2383
01:13:08,953 --> 01:13:09,203
so, I think it'd be worth it if

2384
01:13:10,386 --> 01:13:10,636
we could look into those

2385
01:13:12,419 --> 01:13:12,669
possibilities as ways of making

2386
01:13:14,219 --> 01:13:14,469
this more efficient, more

2387
01:13:16,353 --> 01:13:16,603
accurate, but cheaper for the

2388
01:13:16,953 --> 01:13:17,203
the governments.

2389
01:13:20,253 --> 01:13:20,503
Thank you, Rich. I would agree

2390
01:13:20,919 --> 01:13:21,169
with that. Like I said, not

2391
01:13:22,419 --> 01:13:22,669
necessarily even that we have

2392
01:13:24,253 --> 01:13:24,503
legislation that comes out of

2393
01:13:24,853 --> 01:13:25,103
it, but if this group ends up

2394
01:13:25,453 --> 01:13:25,703
making

2395
01:13:28,486 --> 01:13:28,736
Technological recommendations

2396
01:13:30,553 --> 01:13:30,803
that potentially the state could

2397
01:13:32,486 --> 01:13:32,736
do one time funding for, you

2398
01:13:34,386 --> 01:13:34,636
know, that might be something

2399
01:13:34,986 --> 01:13:35,236
that, um.

2400
01:13:36,453 --> 01:13:36,703
That we could present to like

2401
01:13:38,386 --> 01:13:38,636
OG for the recommended budget

2402
01:13:40,386 --> 01:13:40,636
again it's more of a because

2403
01:13:41,053 --> 01:13:41,303
some of this is sometimes one

2404
01:13:42,353 --> 01:13:42,603
That we could present to like OG

2405
01:13:43,086 --> 01:13:43,336
for the recommended budget again

2406
01:13:43,753 --> 01:13:44,003
it's more of a because some of

2407
01:13:44,453 --> 01:13:44,703
this is sometimes one-time

2408
01:13:45,019 --> 01:13:45,269
funding. I mean, obviously you

2409
01:13:45,619 --> 01:13:45,869
have to still keep systems up

2410
01:13:46,219 --> 01:13:46,469
and running and there's a

2411
01:13:46,719 --> 01:13:46,969
maintenance, maintenance, uh,

2412
01:13:47,319 --> 01:13:47,569
portion of it, but at least the

2413
01:13:48,419 --> 01:13:48,669
one-time funding to maybe get us

2414
01:13:50,519 --> 01:13:50,769
to a better place, um, could

2415
01:13:52,453 --> 01:13:52,703
help. Senator Manvinos, you had

2416
01:13:53,153 --> 01:13:53,403
your hand raised.

2417
01:14:04,219 --> 01:14:04,469
Sorry, sorry about that. I

2418
01:14:06,219 --> 01:14:06,469
figured, um, yeah, yeah, no, I,

2419
01:14:06,919 --> 01:14:07,169
I, I just sort of want to echo

2420
01:14:08,419 --> 01:14:08,669
Bob's point and, you know,

2421
01:14:10,419 --> 01:14:10,669
again, from Senator Buxton's

2422
01:14:12,486 --> 01:14:12,736
point about costs, I mean,

2423
01:14:14,386 --> 01:14:14,636
especially as we look at the

2424
01:14:16,453 --> 01:14:16,703
cadence of reassessments, and I

2425
01:14:18,153 --> 01:14:18,403
know we just kind of touched on

2426
01:14:20,253 --> 01:14:20,503
that a little bit just now. I

2427
01:14:22,319 --> 01:14:22,569
think, you know, we really do

2428
01:14:22,953 --> 01:14:23,203
need to keep in mind the costs

2429
01:14:24,519 --> 01:14:24,769
for the property owner, both

2430
01:14:28,386 --> 01:14:28,636
commercial and residential, so

2431
01:14:30,253 --> 01:14:30,503
that's really what I wanted to

2432
01:14:30,953 --> 01:14:31,203
just kind of emphasize, I think

2433
01:14:31,653 --> 01:14:31,903
also.

2434
01:14:34,286 --> 01:14:34,536
To, and I'm not exactly sure how

2435
01:14:36,219 --> 01:14:36,469
this could even be done, but I

2436
01:14:38,386 --> 01:14:38,636
think a lot of the feedback I've

2437
01:14:40,386 --> 01:14:40,636
received was for people who

2438
01:14:44,219 --> 01:14:44,469
who live in one county have a

2439
01:14:44,819 --> 01:14:45,069
friend in another with a similar

2440
01:14:48,319 --> 01:14:48,569
size property or parcel or home,

2441
01:14:50,453 --> 01:14:50,703
and you know they, they

2442
01:14:50,919 --> 01:14:51,169
certainly

2443
01:14:54,186 --> 01:14:54,436
lament the difference in their

2444
01:14:56,486 --> 01:14:56,736
assessment. So I know that, you

2445
01:14:58,319 --> 01:14:58,569
know, there are other factors

2446
01:15:00,453 --> 01:15:00,703
that are involved, obviously

2447
01:15:01,019 --> 01:15:01,269
location, location, location

2448
01:15:02,286 --> 01:15:02,536
when it comes to real estate,

2449
01:15:04,319 --> 01:15:04,569
but I think as we're talking

2450
01:15:06,286 --> 01:15:06,536
about this, given the size of

2451
01:15:08,219 --> 01:15:08,469
our, you know, the size of

2452
01:15:10,253 --> 01:15:10,503
Delaware, you know, we are bound

2453
01:15:12,519 --> 01:15:12,769
to be hearing comparisons and we

2454
01:15:14,253 --> 01:15:14,503
just, you know, again, I don't

2455
01:15:14,953 --> 01:15:15,203
know if that's anything we're

2456
01:15:16,219 --> 01:15:16,469
going to be able to address in

2457
01:15:16,853 --> 01:15:17,103
this task force, but it's

2458
01:15:18,319 --> 01:15:18,569
certainly something as we're

2459
01:15:20,286 --> 01:15:20,536
looking at this from a statewide

2460
01:15:20,953 --> 01:15:21,203
level, we need to be aware of.

2461
01:15:22,386 --> 01:15:22,636
So I just wanted to raise those

2462
01:15:23,086 --> 01:15:23,336
two points.

2463
01:15:26,286 --> 01:15:26,536
Thank you. Thank you. Justin.

2464
01:15:30,319 --> 01:15:30,569
Yeah, some great, great points

2465
01:15:30,986 --> 01:15:31,236
about, um.

2466
01:15:34,219 --> 01:15:34,469
You know, doing things similarly

2467
01:15:34,953 --> 01:15:35,203
across the state can kinda help

2468
01:15:36,186 --> 01:15:36,436
You know, doing things similarly

2469
01:15:36,853 --> 01:15:37,103
across the state can kind of

2470
01:15:37,486 --> 01:15:37,736
help with communication, that

2471
01:15:38,319 --> 01:15:38,569
kind of thing. But back to the

2472
01:15:40,386 --> 01:15:40,636
appeals, um, I think it's

2473
01:15:40,886 --> 01:15:41,136
important to remember that, you

2474
01:15:42,286 --> 01:15:42,536
know, you hadn't done a

2475
01:15:44,553 --> 01:15:44,803
reassessment in 40, 50 years.

2476
01:15:46,519 --> 01:15:46,769
And so, you know, I think once

2477
01:15:48,486 --> 01:15:48,736
people get a little more used to

2478
01:15:52,219 --> 01:15:52,469
where the values are and they're

2479
01:15:52,986 --> 01:15:53,236
closer to market, and they've

2480
01:15:54,219 --> 01:15:54,469
answered their questions about

2481
01:15:56,219 --> 01:15:56,469
the assessment process and that

2482
01:15:56,953 --> 01:15:57,203
kind of thing, you should see

2483
01:15:58,619 --> 01:15:58,869
those appeal rates drop

2484
01:16:00,486 --> 01:16:00,736
somewhat, or that's what we've

2485
01:16:01,186 --> 01:16:01,436
seen in other states.

2486
01:16:01,686 --> 01:16:01,936
Anyway.

2487
01:16:06,253 --> 01:16:06,503
That's good news for you.

2488
01:16:08,286 --> 01:16:08,536
Take what I can get. Take what

2489
01:16:08,953 --> 01:16:09,203
you can get. Yeah.

2490
01:16:10,353 --> 01:16:10,603
And if I could add also,

2491
01:16:12,319 --> 01:16:12,569
education is important, um.

2492
01:16:14,353 --> 01:16:14,603
It, I, I keep calling this the

2493
01:16:16,219 --> 01:16:16,469
largest group project in the

2494
01:16:18,219 --> 01:16:18,469
state of Delaware's history, and

2495
01:16:18,986 --> 01:16:19,236
there's more than just people

2496
01:16:20,419 --> 01:16:20,669
here at the table and our, and

2497
01:16:22,253 --> 01:16:22,503
our folks back in our offices

2498
01:16:24,219 --> 01:16:24,469
who are doing this work behind

2499
01:16:24,819 --> 01:16:25,069
the scenes, but communications

2500
01:16:28,186 --> 01:16:28,436
is huge. Uh, we've, we, we, the

2501
01:16:28,886 --> 01:16:29,136
Henry administration spent

2502
01:16:32,219 --> 01:16:32,469
numerous hours and days putting

2503
01:16:34,186 --> 01:16:34,436
out information as, as frequent

2504
01:16:36,219 --> 01:16:36,469
and often as possible, but

2505
01:16:38,253 --> 01:16:38,503
finding the, the, the balance of

2506
01:16:38,919 --> 01:16:39,169
what is enough and what is too

2507
01:16:40,519 --> 01:16:40,769
much is also a challenge as

2508
01:16:42,319 --> 01:16:42,569
well. But getting our, our

2509
01:16:42,919 --> 01:16:43,169
constituents.

2510
01:16:44,453 --> 01:16:44,703
to understand the, the

2511
01:16:46,319 --> 01:16:46,569
assessment process and what

2512
01:16:48,486 --> 01:16:48,736
rights they have and where the

2513
01:16:50,286 --> 01:16:50,536
information can be found if we

2514
01:16:52,286 --> 01:16:52,536
were consistent across the state

2515
01:16:54,186 --> 01:16:54,436
on our messaging and our

2516
01:16:54,719 --> 01:16:54,969
branding, um, I think that would

2517
01:16:58,253 --> 01:16:58,503
help a lot, uh, maybe avoid some

2518
01:16:58,953 --> 01:16:59,203
issues in the future.

2519
01:17:00,453 --> 01:17:00,703
I would agree with that.

2520
01:17:02,386 --> 01:17:02,636
Anytime any of the counties put

2521
01:17:04,219 --> 01:17:04,469
something out that we thought

2522
01:17:04,819 --> 01:17:05,069
would be helpful for our

2523
01:17:06,519 --> 01:17:06,769
members, we, we would share it

2524
01:17:07,219 --> 01:17:07,469
immediately because

2525
01:17:08,519 --> 01:17:08,769
We know everyone's just trying

2526
01:17:10,286 --> 01:17:10,536
to do their job and since we

2527
01:17:12,519 --> 01:17:12,769
have a large membership that is

2528
01:17:14,286 --> 01:17:14,536
impacted by each and every one

2529
01:17:16,353 --> 01:17:16,603
of the counties, um, we try to,

2530
01:17:16,986 --> 01:17:17,236
you know, put that out as well,

2531
01:17:18,353 --> 01:17:18,603
so maybe leveraging some

2532
01:17:20,419 --> 01:17:20,669
partnerships with more folks. I

2533
01:17:22,519 --> 01:17:22,769
mean, I think that consistent

2534
01:17:24,186 --> 01:17:24,436
education explaining the

2535
01:17:24,753 --> 01:17:25,003
difference between what's going

2536
01:17:25,386 --> 01:17:25,636
on in Newcastle versus Kent

2537
01:17:26,419 --> 01:17:26,669
Kenny was a very interesting for

2538
01:17:34,419 --> 01:17:34,669
us. So I think, yeah, I, I like

2539
01:17:36,719 --> 01:17:36,969
that. OK, so the next.

2540
01:17:40,353 --> 01:17:40,603
Meeting,

2541
01:17:40,619 --> 01:17:40,869
Me too,

2542
01:17:42,453 --> 01:17:42,703
Oh, sorry. OK, um, so.

2543
01:17:44,519 --> 01:17:44,769
This

2544
01:17:48,386 --> 01:17:48,636
Next meeting she she signed her

2545
01:17:49,019 --> 01:17:49,269
Next meeting she she signator

2546
01:17:50,219 --> 01:17:50,469
Buxton's earlier point. This,

2547
01:17:50,819 --> 01:17:51,069
this isn't about rehashing all,

2548
01:17:54,186 --> 01:17:54,436
all the old stuff, but we do

2549
01:17:54,819 --> 01:17:55,069
want our next meeting um to have

2550
01:17:56,319 --> 01:17:56,569
Justin present because he's

2551
01:17:58,219 --> 01:17:58,469
going to be the one really,

2552
01:17:58,853 --> 01:17:59,103
really helping us with those

2553
01:18:00,319 --> 01:18:00,569
recommendations. We want to make

2554
01:18:02,253 --> 01:18:02,503
sure that he has a good

2555
01:18:02,786 --> 01:18:03,036
understanding of what

2556
01:18:06,286 --> 01:18:06,536
What did, what went, what

2557
01:18:08,219 --> 01:18:08,469
happened, um, the good, the bad,

2558
01:18:08,986 --> 01:18:09,236
you know what I mean? Like the,

2559
01:18:10,453 --> 01:18:10,703
the good things that you have

2560
01:18:12,253 --> 01:18:12,503
have going on as well. So, um,

2561
01:18:14,253 --> 01:18:14,503
vendor procurement, um, staff

2562
01:18:18,319 --> 01:18:18,569
oversight, and then the, the

2563
01:18:20,253 --> 01:18:20,503
role certification. I think

2564
01:18:22,219 --> 01:18:22,469
we've asked and you just be

2565
01:18:22,786 --> 01:18:23,036
aware, it's, it's a little bit

2566
01:18:24,553 --> 01:18:24,803
of an aggressive timeline, uh,

2567
01:18:26,486 --> 01:18:26,736
for him to look at this so we

2568
01:18:28,486 --> 01:18:28,736
have, um, Kate sent him over

2569
01:18:30,719 --> 01:18:30,969
basically whatever we had, but

2570
01:18:32,419 --> 01:18:32,669
there may be times in the next

2571
01:18:34,486 --> 01:18:34,736
um week where he may have

2572
01:18:35,053 --> 01:18:35,303
additional questions.

2573
01:18:36,519 --> 01:18:36,769
I'll, I'll let him speak as

2574
01:18:40,253 --> 01:18:40,503
well, um, that he may have, uh,

2575
01:18:40,919 --> 01:18:41,169
additional questions that he may

2576
01:18:44,353 --> 01:18:44,603
ask um about either your process

2577
01:18:48,319 --> 01:18:48,569
or about um the model or about

2578
01:18:50,253 --> 01:18:50,503
what the what the data ended up

2579
01:18:50,919 --> 01:18:51,169
being because again.

2580
01:18:52,386 --> 01:18:52,636
I think I forget who said it,

2581
01:18:54,386 --> 01:18:54,636
but maybe it was Jeff like do no

2582
01:18:56,319 --> 01:18:56,569
harm. We do not want to break

2583
01:18:58,319 --> 01:18:58,569
things that are working, um, but

2584
01:19:00,253 --> 01:19:00,503
to be able to make sure that he

2585
01:19:00,919 --> 01:19:01,169
understands what we were doing

2586
01:19:04,186 --> 01:19:04,436
in all three counties and the

2587
01:19:04,853 --> 01:19:05,103
impact so that he can help make

2588
01:19:06,253 --> 01:19:06,503
better recommendations moving

2589
01:19:06,853 --> 01:19:07,103
forward, um.

2590
01:19:10,253 --> 01:19:10,503
That's, that's gonna be for the

2591
01:19:12,319 --> 01:19:12,569
next, um, assessment, I'm sorry,

2592
01:19:12,986 --> 01:19:13,236
for the next, um.

2593
01:19:14,286 --> 01:19:14,536
Meeting.

2594
01:19:16,453 --> 01:19:16,703
But so that's really it. What

2595
01:19:20,253 --> 01:19:20,503
was for today was, um, please,

2596
01:19:20,919 --> 01:19:21,169
uh, so I'm gonna open it up to

2597
01:19:22,219 --> 01:19:22,469
the public

2598
01:19:24,186 --> 01:19:24,436
to member questions and then to

2599
01:19:26,319 --> 01:19:26,569
the public. If there are though,

2600
01:19:28,486 --> 01:19:28,736
people that you um feel by the

2601
01:19:30,253 --> 01:19:30,503
next meeting I'll have those

2602
01:19:30,853 --> 01:19:31,103
names and we can we can vote on

2603
01:19:32,419 --> 01:19:32,669
those numbers, um, next time,

2604
01:19:34,486 --> 01:19:34,736
um, just to refresh, we talked

2605
01:19:36,319 --> 01:19:36,569
about the city of Wilmington, an

2606
01:19:38,453 --> 01:19:38,703
assessor, um, League of local

2607
01:19:40,486 --> 01:19:40,736
governments or somebody to

2608
01:19:42,486 --> 01:19:42,736
represent smaller

2609
01:19:44,353 --> 01:19:44,603
municipalities,

2610
01:19:44,686 --> 01:19:44,936
um, and then an average

2611
01:19:45,186 --> 01:19:45,436
homeowner if anyone.

2612
01:19:46,453 --> 01:19:46,703
Wants to send those to Kate and

2613
01:19:48,186 --> 01:19:48,436
I

2614
01:19:50,286 --> 01:19:50,536
and we will, you know, have a

2615
01:19:50,919 --> 01:19:51,169
conversation and then, and then

2616
01:19:52,319 --> 01:19:52,569
bring it back to the group.

2617
01:19:54,386 --> 01:19:54,636
But question,

2618
01:19:56,419 --> 01:19:56,669
yes, Cindy, question, just

2619
01:19:58,286 --> 01:19:58,536
clarification question. Are you

2620
01:19:58,953 --> 01:19:59,203
looking for an assessor or an

2621
01:19:59,553 --> 01:19:59,803
appraiser?

2622
01:20:00,386 --> 01:20:00,636
That's.

2623
01:20:02,319 --> 01:20:02,569
Assessor.

2624
01:20:04,219 --> 01:20:04,469
OK.

2625
01:20:06,586 --> 01:20:06,836
But again, I would, I, I would

2626
01:20:07,186 --> 01:20:07,436
recommend.

2627
01:20:10,353 --> 01:20:10,603
One of these meetings again,

2628
01:20:14,219 --> 01:20:14,469
pretty early on, we bring in a

2629
01:20:16,386 --> 01:20:16,636
certified general appraiser who

2630
01:20:20,286 --> 01:20:20,536
has experience in the appeals

2631
01:20:20,953 --> 01:20:21,203
process with New Castle County

2632
01:20:22,319 --> 01:20:22,569
in particular, cause that's

2633
01:20:22,986 --> 01:20:23,236
where we're getting most of

2634
01:20:24,553 --> 01:20:24,803
them, to show some of the common

2635
01:20:25,253 --> 01:20:25,503
issues.

2636
01:20:26,619 --> 01:20:26,869
That are ending up.

2637
01:20:28,553 --> 01:20:28,803
Being appealed.

2638
01:20:32,286 --> 01:20:32,536
Um, I think that would provide

2639
01:20:34,286 --> 01:20:34,536
an awful lot of guidance for us

2640
01:20:34,986 --> 01:20:35,236
on

2641
01:20:36,519 --> 01:20:36,769
What went wrong and what's being

2642
01:20:38,453 --> 01:20:38,703
done to fix it. So, I do think

2643
01:20:40,353 --> 01:20:40,603
a, a presentation from somebody

2644
01:20:42,453 --> 01:20:42,703
like that would be important at

2645
01:20:43,086 --> 01:20:43,336
an early upcoming meeting.

2646
01:20:46,219 --> 01:20:46,469
Let me ask you this, do you

2647
01:20:46,819 --> 01:20:47,069
think, uh, uh, like a special

2648
01:20:48,486 --> 01:20:48,736
guest, or you, do you wanna add,

2649
01:20:50,486 --> 01:20:50,736
I mean, we, the group's not too,

2650
01:20:54,153 --> 01:20:54,403
too big at this point. Um, do

2651
01:20:56,219 --> 01:20:56,469
you feel we need an assessor and

2652
01:20:56,886 --> 01:20:57,136
an appraiser to add to the

2653
01:20:57,453 --> 01:20:57,703
actual group.

2654
01:21:00,353 --> 01:21:00,603
Well, the assessor is the one

2655
01:21:02,286 --> 01:21:02,536
who does the initial property,

2656
01:21:02,919 --> 01:21:03,169
you know, this is how much your

2657
01:21:04,386 --> 01:21:04,636
property is worth, right? The

2658
01:21:06,453 --> 01:21:06,703
appraiser is kind of the after

2659
01:21:08,253 --> 01:21:08,503
effect here, the after the fact,

2660
01:21:10,319 --> 01:21:10,569
hey, the assessor said your

2661
01:21:10,886 --> 01:21:11,136
property is worth this, but I

2662
01:21:12,453 --> 01:21:12,703
think it's worth that, and

2663
01:21:14,319 --> 01:21:14,569
that's what we're gonna take to

2664
01:21:16,219 --> 01:21:16,469
the appeals process. So I would

2665
01:21:16,853 --> 01:21:17,103
leave it up to the group. If the

2666
01:21:17,553 --> 01:21:17,803
group is

2667
01:21:20,386 --> 01:21:20,636
Look, if, if, if we bring in an

2668
01:21:22,319 --> 01:21:22,569
appraiser and they say, hey,

2669
01:21:24,186 --> 01:21:24,436
these are the problems, and it

2670
01:21:24,853 --> 01:21:25,103
looks like something that we're

2671
01:21:26,153 --> 01:21:26,403
gonna need to keep bringing them

2672
01:21:28,186 --> 01:21:28,436
back, uh, for future meetings,

2673
01:21:28,819 --> 01:21:29,069
and yeah, we're probably gonna

2674
01:21:30,286 --> 01:21:30,536
wanna add them as a voting

2675
01:21:30,819 --> 01:21:31,069
member. I bring them in first.

2676
01:21:31,486 --> 01:21:31,736
OK.

2677
01:21:34,353 --> 01:21:34,603
What do you, you know, with your

2678
01:21:35,119 --> 01:21:35,369
experience, what do you think?

2679
01:21:36,419 --> 01:21:36,669
Do you, I don't necessarily

2680
01:21:38,253 --> 01:21:38,503
think we have to add them to the

2681
01:21:40,219 --> 01:21:40,469
group, but you. I think it's fun

2682
01:21:40,886 --> 01:21:41,136
to have the discussion. I think

2683
01:21:42,286 --> 01:21:42,536
there's a difference between

2684
01:21:44,286 --> 01:21:44,536
mass appraisal and appraisal,

2685
01:21:46,219 --> 01:21:46,469
whereas mass appraisal, we're

2686
01:21:46,853 --> 01:21:47,103
just going through neighborhoods

2687
01:21:48,386 --> 01:21:48,636
looking at homes from the

2688
01:21:52,219 --> 01:21:52,469
exterior, whereas uh appraisers

2689
01:21:54,219 --> 01:21:54,469
for specific pieces of property

2690
01:21:54,886 --> 01:21:55,136
for mortgage purposes. They're

2691
01:21:56,453 --> 01:21:56,703
going into the buildings,

2692
01:21:58,219 --> 01:21:58,469
they're going into looking at

2693
01:21:58,919 --> 01:21:59,169
bathrooms and conditions of the

2694
01:22:00,353 --> 01:22:00,603
kitchen and those types of

2695
01:22:00,919 --> 01:22:01,169
things. So for mass appraisal.

2696
01:22:04,419 --> 01:22:04,669
We're simply doing a more

2697
01:22:06,186 --> 01:22:06,436
simplified version. If you

2698
01:22:08,186 --> 01:22:08,436
figure just on simplistic terms,

2699
01:22:10,319 --> 01:22:10,569
it costs the county about $50

2700
01:22:12,386 --> 01:22:12,636
per parcel, where to do a, a

2701
01:22:14,319 --> 01:22:14,569
mass appraisal. But if you're

2702
01:22:15,019 --> 01:22:15,269
having an appraisal done for

2703
01:22:16,286 --> 01:22:16,536
your, for a mortgage, you're,

2704
01:22:16,919 --> 01:22:17,169
you're probably gonna spend

2705
01:22:18,486 --> 01:22:18,736
$500. So it's

2706
01:22:22,353 --> 01:22:22,603
It's definitely a time

2707
01:22:24,419 --> 01:22:24,669
constraint for us to send an

2708
01:22:26,319 --> 01:22:26,569
appraiser with that mindset of

2709
01:22:28,386 --> 01:22:28,636
a, a mortgage type valuation on

2710
01:22:30,586 --> 01:22:30,836
a property, um, and it would

2711
01:22:32,286 --> 01:22:32,536
take us years to go through

2712
01:22:34,486 --> 01:22:34,736
those, uh, 220,000 parcels if we

2713
01:22:36,219 --> 01:22:36,469
It's definitely a time

2714
01:22:36,719 --> 01:22:36,969
constraint for us to send an

2715
01:22:37,319 --> 01:22:37,569
appraiser with that mindset of

2716
01:22:37,919 --> 01:22:38,169
a, a mortgage type valuation on

2717
01:22:38,619 --> 01:22:38,869
a property, um, and it would

2718
01:22:39,186 --> 01:22:39,436
take us years to go through

2719
01:22:39,786 --> 01:22:40,036
those, uh, 220,000 parcels if

2720
01:22:40,453 --> 01:22:40,703
we are entering every single,

2721
01:22:41,086 --> 01:22:41,336
single building that we need to.

2722
01:22:41,786 --> 01:22:42,036
So I guess that's part of the

2723
01:22:42,486 --> 01:22:42,736
education process. Um, and I'm

2724
01:22:44,186 --> 01:22:44,436
fine having that discussion. I

2725
01:22:44,853 --> 01:22:45,103
think that's definitely worth

2726
01:22:46,453 --> 01:22:46,703
having. The folks are expecting,

2727
01:22:48,453 --> 01:22:48,703
um, when they have an issue with

2728
01:22:49,086 --> 01:22:49,336
their property, uh, they're

2729
01:22:49,686 --> 01:22:49,936
saying.

2730
01:22:52,386 --> 01:22:52,636
Well, I, my, you, you haven't

2731
01:22:54,386 --> 01:22:54,636
been inside my property. I, you,

2732
01:22:55,086 --> 01:22:55,336
haven't been inside my property.

2733
01:22:56,319 --> 01:22:56,569
I, this number is incorrect for

2734
01:22:58,319 --> 01:22:58,569
this, for these reasons. And,

2735
01:23:00,386 --> 01:23:00,636
um, and which is fine, they can

2736
01:23:02,319 --> 01:23:02,569
appeal, but I think we need to

2737
01:23:03,019 --> 01:23:03,269
have that discussion as to what

2738
01:23:04,519 --> 01:23:04,769
is, what's acceptable, what the

2739
01:23:06,519 --> 01:23:06,769
state considers an acceptable

2740
01:23:10,253 --> 01:23:10,503
appraisal when it comes to mass,

2741
01:23:12,319 --> 01:23:12,569
mass appraisals. I think,

2742
01:23:14,319 --> 01:23:14,569
yeah, and I, I, I concur with

2743
01:23:14,919 --> 01:23:15,169
everything there, about

2744
01:23:16,219 --> 01:23:16,469
individual appraisal of every

2745
01:23:18,386 --> 01:23:18,636
property for for this purpose

2746
01:23:19,053 --> 01:23:19,303
is, is inconceivably expensive.

2747
01:23:22,319 --> 01:23:22,569
Time consuming. But the opposite

2748
01:23:24,219 --> 01:23:24,469
is also true when you go to an

2749
01:23:24,886 --> 01:23:25,136
appeal.

2750
01:23:26,353 --> 01:23:26,603
You don't go to a mass

2751
01:23:28,286 --> 01:23:28,536
appraisal, you go to a regular

2752
01:23:30,253 --> 01:23:30,503
appraisal. So the opposite is

2753
01:23:32,319 --> 01:23:32,569
also true, marrying these two,

2754
01:23:33,019 --> 01:23:33,269
look, there's got to be a margin

2755
01:23:34,486 --> 01:23:34,736
of error. Of course, there is.

2756
01:23:36,519 --> 01:23:36,769
mitigating that margin of error

2757
01:23:38,386 --> 01:23:38,636
between the mass appraisal,

2758
01:23:40,386 --> 01:23:40,636
which is gonna have more errors,

2759
01:23:42,286 --> 01:23:42,536
and the individual appraisal per

2760
01:23:44,353 --> 01:23:44,603
property which is too expensive

2761
01:23:46,253 --> 01:23:46,503
and too time-consuming to do,

2762
01:23:48,419 --> 01:23:48,669
Somewhere between there is where

2763
01:23:50,519 --> 01:23:50,769
we need to be that we were not

2764
01:23:51,153 --> 01:23:51,403
in the last assessment.

2765
01:23:58,286 --> 01:23:58,536
So we're talking about bringing

2766
01:24:00,353 --> 01:24:00,603
someone in for a part of the

2767
01:24:02,219 --> 01:24:02,469
meeting to explain it versus

2768
01:24:02,886 --> 01:24:03,136
adding.

2769
01:24:06,419 --> 01:24:06,669
Two individuals to be a part of

2770
01:24:08,419 --> 01:24:08,669
the entire task force and, and I

2771
01:24:12,153 --> 01:24:12,403
What do you guys think? I think

2772
01:24:12,786 --> 01:24:13,036
the meeting is definitely

2773
01:24:14,286 --> 01:24:14,536
useful. I definitely would like

2774
01:24:16,186 --> 01:24:16,436
to see that. I'm not sure we

2775
01:24:18,186 --> 01:24:18,436
need to add him to the task

2776
01:24:18,853 --> 01:24:19,103
force. What do you think, Jeff?

2777
01:24:22,319 --> 01:24:22,569
I, I think the best approach is

2778
01:24:22,986 --> 01:24:23,236
to bring them in, preferably at

2779
01:24:24,519 --> 01:24:24,769
the next meeting if they can

2780
01:24:26,319 --> 01:24:26,569
show some of the common

2781
01:24:28,219 --> 01:24:28,469
problems. And if it looks like

2782
01:24:28,853 --> 01:24:29,103
the kind of thing where we're

2783
01:24:30,319 --> 01:24:30,569
gonna need to keep bringing them

2784
01:24:32,519 --> 01:24:32,769
back, um, then we can talk then

2785
01:24:34,553 --> 01:24:34,803
about adding them to, we, we

2786
01:24:36,286 --> 01:24:36,536
talked about that, about the

2787
01:24:36,953 --> 01:24:37,203
value of adding them to the, a

2788
01:24:38,619 --> 01:24:38,869
member, as a voting member of

2789
01:24:40,353 --> 01:24:40,603
the working group would be my

2790
01:24:42,219 --> 01:24:42,469
I think it's not a bad approach.

2791
01:24:44,486 --> 01:24:44,736
Fucking throw a name out to, to

2792
01:24:46,419 --> 01:24:46,669
perhaps bring in with you Bill

2793
01:24:48,319 --> 01:24:48,569
Smith from the New Castle County

2794
01:24:49,019 --> 01:24:49,269
Board of Realtors.

2795
01:24:50,386 --> 01:24:50,636
He has experience on both sides.

2796
01:24:52,353 --> 01:24:52,603
Of the bone there.

2797
01:24:56,386 --> 01:24:56,636
Any objections? Did you hear

2798
01:24:56,953 --> 01:24:57,203
that, Jeff? Bill Smith?

2799
01:25:00,519 --> 01:25:00,769
Uh, that's fine. Uh, I think

2800
01:25:02,286 --> 01:25:02,536
there's a couple of people. I

2801
01:25:04,419 --> 01:25:04,669
think given how busy appraisers

2802
01:25:08,186 --> 01:25:08,436
are at the moment. I think, um,

2803
01:25:10,253 --> 01:25:10,503
anybody who has the time to do

2804
01:25:10,919 --> 01:25:11,169
it, I think the other uh

2805
01:25:11,486 --> 01:25:11,736
I think there's a couple of

2806
01:25:12,086 --> 01:25:12,336
people. I think given how busy

2807
01:25:12,786 --> 01:25:13,036
appraisers are at the moment. I

2808
01:25:13,486 --> 01:25:13,736
think, um, anybody who has the

2809
01:25:14,186 --> 01:25:14,436
time to do it, I think the other

2810
01:25:14,886 --> 01:25:15,136
suggestion was uh from Senator

2811
01:25:15,586 --> 01:25:15,836
Buxton, which was uh Phil

2812
01:25:16,219 --> 01:25:16,469
McGinness, which is who I work

2813
01:25:16,919 --> 01:25:17,169
for, um, so if there's a

2814
01:25:18,519 --> 01:25:18,769
conflict there, then, then don't

2815
01:25:20,686 --> 01:25:20,936
worry about it. But I think, uh,

2816
01:25:22,553 --> 01:25:22,803
given how busy they are, I

2817
01:25:24,453 --> 01:25:24,703
think uh the better approach is

2818
01:25:26,319 --> 01:25:26,569
to say, yeah, yeah, yeah, sure,

2819
01:25:27,053 --> 01:25:27,303
come on in. Uh, we're just

2820
01:25:28,419 --> 01:25:28,669
having you in for a, uh,

2821
01:25:32,186 --> 01:25:32,436
For, uh, you know, to showcase

2822
01:25:32,819 --> 01:25:33,069
some of these appeals, um, and

2823
01:25:34,386 --> 01:25:34,636
then seeing if we can, uh, if we

2824
01:25:36,319 --> 01:25:36,569
can guilt-trip them or beat them

2825
01:25:38,219 --> 01:25:38,469
into joining as a working member

2826
01:25:40,219 --> 01:25:40,469
if we need to. OK, yeah, I think

2827
01:25:42,286 --> 01:25:42,536
there would be two, do you, can

2828
01:25:44,286 --> 01:25:44,536
you send me, um, is everyone OK

2829
01:25:46,419 --> 01:25:46,669
just using first names? I'm

2830
01:25:47,019 --> 01:25:47,269
sorry. OK,

2831
01:25:50,486 --> 01:25:50,736
yeah, I was, you know, uh, are

2832
01:25:52,219 --> 01:25:52,469
you, can you send me Bill

2833
01:25:52,753 --> 01:25:53,003
Smith's email? I have Phil

2834
01:25:54,386 --> 01:25:54,636
McGuinness's but, and then we

2835
01:25:56,219 --> 01:25:56,469
can kind of reach out to those

2836
01:25:56,853 --> 01:25:57,103
For, uh, you know, to showcase

2837
01:25:57,553 --> 01:25:57,803
some of these appeals, um, and

2838
01:25:58,253 --> 01:25:58,503
then seeing if we can, uh, if we

2839
01:25:58,953 --> 01:25:59,203
can guilt-trip them or beat them

2840
01:25:59,653 --> 01:25:59,903
into joining as a working member

2841
01:26:00,386 --> 01:26:00,636
if we need to. OK, yeah, I think

2842
01:26:01,086 --> 01:26:01,336
there would be two, do you, can

2843
01:26:01,786 --> 01:26:02,036
you send me, um, is everyone OK

2844
01:26:02,486 --> 01:26:02,736
just using first names? I'm

2845
01:26:03,119 --> 01:26:03,369
sorry. OK,

2846
01:26:03,386 --> 01:26:03,636
yeah, I was, you know, uh, are

2847
01:26:04,086 --> 01:26:04,336
you, can you send me Bill

2848
01:26:04,686 --> 01:26:04,936
Smith's email? I have Phil

2849
01:26:05,286 --> 01:26:05,536
McGuinness's, but, and then we

2850
01:26:05,986 --> 01:26:06,236
can kind of reach out to them

2851
01:26:06,586 --> 01:26:06,836
and see what see what their

2852
01:26:07,153 --> 01:26:07,403
schedule. Can do.

2853
01:26:07,519 --> 01:26:07,769
I was on a task force.

2854
01:26:08,086 --> 01:26:08,336
2 days ago, well, no.

2855
01:26:08,619 --> 01:26:08,869
Thursday, whatever.

2856
01:26:09,019 --> 01:26:09,269
I showed up in this room, I had

2857
01:26:09,719 --> 01:26:09,969
a t-shirt on.

2858
01:26:09,969 --> 01:26:10,219
Hey dudes,

2859
01:26:10,519 --> 01:26:10,769
I, everybody else is in tie, so

2860
01:26:12,353 --> 01:26:12,603
you can see I rolled up today.

2861
01:26:14,453 --> 01:26:14,703
You're like, oh, I need to in

2862
01:26:16,319 --> 01:26:16,569
business up top on the bottom or

2863
01:26:17,019 --> 01:26:17,269
something like that

2864
01:26:17,486 --> 01:26:17,736
Hey dudes, I, everybody else is

2865
01:26:18,219 --> 01:26:18,469
in tie, so you can see I rolled

2866
01:26:18,919 --> 01:26:19,169
up today. You're like, oh, I

2867
01:26:19,486 --> 01:26:19,736
need to in business up top party

2868
01:26:20,219 --> 01:26:20,469
on the bottom or something like

2869
01:26:20,853 --> 01:26:21,103
that. That's that's what Zoom

2870
01:26:21,453 --> 01:26:21,703
can do.

2871
01:26:21,703 --> 01:26:21,953
Yeah

2872
01:26:21,953 --> 01:26:22,203
OK.

2873
01:26:24,353 --> 01:26:24,603
All right, then we can go to um

2874
01:26:28,219 --> 01:26:28,469
public comments, um, and then

2875
01:26:30,219 --> 01:26:30,469
we, I, we will send out the

2876
01:26:32,186 --> 01:26:32,436
notes, the minutes, um, any kind

2877
01:26:32,886 --> 01:26:33,136
of requests from Justin that he

2878
01:26:34,419 --> 01:26:34,669
may have about some of the data

2879
01:26:35,119 --> 01:26:35,369
and um.

2880
01:26:36,419 --> 01:26:36,669
At that we're.

2881
01:26:40,386 --> 01:26:40,636
Very on time we said 90 minutes

2882
01:26:42,219 --> 01:26:42,469
for a movie. So very, very good,

2883
01:26:42,919 --> 01:26:43,169
very good. Thank you. All right,

2884
01:26:44,586 --> 01:26:44,836
Christian Willow, I will, uh,

2885
01:26:46,453 --> 01:26:46,703
you are our first, uh, public

2886
01:26:50,453 --> 01:26:50,703
hand raise and you, um, yeah, 2

2887
01:26:52,453 --> 01:26:52,703
to 3 minutes, um, if you want to

2888
01:26:53,119 --> 01:26:53,369
speak.

2889
01:26:56,253 --> 01:26:56,503
Thanks very much. Again, I wanna

2890
01:26:58,253 --> 01:26:58,503
um thank the Delaware State

2891
01:27:00,219 --> 01:27:00,469
Legislature for continuing to

2892
01:27:02,219 --> 01:27:02,469
work on accuracy and property

2893
01:27:02,853 --> 01:27:03,103
tax assessments. It's super

2894
01:27:04,486 --> 01:27:04,736
important and um a lot of people

2895
01:27:06,319 --> 01:27:06,569
in the 5th District of

2896
01:27:08,353 --> 01:27:08,603
Wilmington still uh are

2897
01:27:10,519 --> 01:27:10,769
suffering a lot from property

2898
01:27:11,119 --> 01:27:11,369
tax hikes that

2899
01:27:14,186 --> 01:27:14,436
They weren't anticipating and

2900
01:27:16,186 --> 01:27:16,436
that also are based on

2901
01:27:16,719 --> 01:27:16,969
assessment values for their

2902
01:27:18,253 --> 01:27:18,503
homes that are a lot more than

2903
01:27:20,253 --> 01:27:20,503
their properties are worth. So I

2904
01:27:22,186 --> 01:27:22,436
think this is really important

2905
01:27:24,186 --> 01:27:24,436
and small businesses in the 5th

2906
01:27:24,819 --> 01:27:25,069
District and across the city of

2907
01:27:26,519 --> 01:27:26,769
Wilmington are also paying um

2908
01:27:28,386 --> 01:27:28,636
property taxes on values much

2909
01:27:29,019 --> 01:27:29,269
more than the properties are

2910
01:27:30,519 --> 01:27:30,769
worth. So we definitely need

2911
01:27:32,319 --> 01:27:32,569
resolution on these issues. What

2912
01:27:34,353 --> 01:27:34,603
I wanted to bring up today was,

2913
01:27:36,553 --> 01:27:36,803
in addition to the issues that

2914
01:27:38,486 --> 01:27:38,736
you're looking at, I'd like to

2915
01:27:39,186 --> 01:27:39,436
suggest that you

2916
01:27:42,253 --> 01:27:42,503
This working group pay attention

2917
01:27:44,586 --> 01:27:44,836
also to accuracy of the entire

2918
01:27:45,286 --> 01:27:45,536
assessment.

2919
01:27:48,386 --> 01:27:48,636
Which includes a land value

2920
01:27:50,486 --> 01:27:50,736
component and a structure value

2921
01:27:52,553 --> 01:27:52,803
component, and we've seen in the

2922
01:27:54,486 --> 01:27:54,736
city of Wilmington that the land

2923
01:27:56,486 --> 01:27:56,736
value component for properties

2924
01:27:58,519 --> 01:27:58,769
in the city of Wilmington just

2925
01:28:02,286 --> 01:28:02,536
has no relationship whatsoever

2926
01:28:04,286 --> 01:28:04,536
to the actual fair market value

2927
01:28:08,319 --> 01:28:08,569
of the land. And that we also

2928
01:28:10,419 --> 01:28:10,669
see another dynamic is, is that

2929
01:28:12,453 --> 01:28:12,703
the per acre value of smaller

2930
01:28:14,586 --> 01:28:14,836
parcels and in particular, uh,

2931
01:28:15,253 --> 01:28:15,503
smaller residential par parcels.

2932
01:28:16,519 --> 01:28:16,769
is

2933
01:28:22,319 --> 01:28:22,569
Very high, you know, 2 $3

2934
01:28:24,286 --> 01:28:24,536
million. Whereas in the

2935
01:28:24,786 --> 01:28:25,036
downtown, the commercial

2936
01:28:26,386 --> 01:28:26,636
properties, which are actually

2937
01:28:28,353 --> 01:28:28,603
do have the fair market value of

2938
01:28:30,453 --> 01:28:30,703
the land is much higher. The

2939
01:28:32,253 --> 01:28:32,503
assessed value can be, you know,

2940
01:28:38,353 --> 01:28:38,603
$240,000 an acre or $119,000 an

2941
01:28:40,386 --> 01:28:40,636
acre. Just, again, the land

2942
01:28:44,286 --> 01:28:44,536
values have to be accurate as

2943
01:28:46,553 --> 01:28:46,803
well as the total assessment

2944
01:28:48,486 --> 01:28:48,736
value. So as long as this group

2945
01:28:50,486 --> 01:28:50,736
is looking at addressing

2946
01:28:54,186 --> 01:28:54,436
accuracy. Um, I'd like to

2947
01:28:56,453 --> 01:28:56,703
recommend or urge you to make

2948
01:28:58,353 --> 01:28:58,603
sure that you're paying

2949
01:29:00,419 --> 01:29:00,669
attention to both components of

2950
01:29:01,119 --> 01:29:01,369
the assessment. And the reason

2951
01:29:02,353 --> 01:29:02,603
this is really important is in

2952
01:29:03,053 --> 01:29:03,303
the context of

2953
01:29:04,219 --> 01:29:04,469
Um,

2954
01:29:06,353 --> 01:29:06,603
Tax abatements, they're usually

2955
01:29:08,319 --> 01:29:08,569
on the approved value of the

2956
01:29:10,253 --> 01:29:10,503
property. So unless the land

2957
01:29:10,819 --> 01:29:11,069
value represents the actual land

2958
01:29:11,553 --> 01:29:11,803
value,

2959
01:29:16,219 --> 01:29:16,469
Sometimes you can have your tax

2960
01:29:16,919 --> 01:29:17,169
abatements, um,

2961
01:29:20,453 --> 01:29:20,703
Just, you can be collecting very

2962
01:29:22,219 --> 01:29:22,469
little money on very valuable

2963
01:29:24,186 --> 01:29:24,436
properties, which isn't good for

2964
01:29:24,853 --> 01:29:25,103
the bottom line of the

2965
01:29:25,319 --> 01:29:25,569
Wilmington City budget.

2966
01:29:28,419 --> 01:29:28,669
Thank you, Christian. I actually

2967
01:29:30,319 --> 01:29:30,569
did a little while ago, write

2968
01:29:32,286 --> 01:29:32,536
down land versus structure and,

2969
01:29:34,186 --> 01:29:34,436
uh, you know, because I think

2970
01:29:34,819 --> 01:29:35,069
that's, that's not only an issue

2971
01:29:36,219 --> 01:29:36,469
in the city of Wilmington, but

2972
01:29:36,853 --> 01:29:37,103
it's been an issue with the

2973
01:29:38,253 --> 01:29:38,503
farming. Sydney was shaking her

2974
01:29:38,886 --> 01:29:39,136
head as we were going. I know

2975
01:29:40,253 --> 01:29:40,503
we're not supposed to like

2976
01:29:40,819 --> 01:29:41,069
respond to public comment, but,

2977
01:29:42,353 --> 01:29:42,603
um, the land versus structure.

2978
01:29:44,353 --> 01:29:44,603
So, um, and we'll, we'll make

2979
01:29:44,919 --> 01:29:45,169
sure to have conversations with

2980
01:29:46,586 --> 01:29:46,836
Justin about that as well. Lisa

2981
01:29:48,586 --> 01:29:48,836
Rice, you're allowed to speak

2982
01:29:50,686 --> 01:29:50,936
for the next 2 to 3 minutes. Um,

2983
01:29:52,386 --> 01:29:52,636
welcome to the hearing.

2984
01:29:56,319 --> 01:29:56,569
Hi, thank you very much. I'm

2985
01:29:58,253 --> 01:29:58,503
Lisa Rice from Middletown. I

2986
01:30:00,353 --> 01:30:00,603
sent in a written comment that

2987
01:30:02,386 --> 01:30:02,636
basically points out what

2988
01:30:04,419 --> 01:30:04,669
seemingly you already know

2989
01:30:06,353 --> 01:30:06,603
regarding problems with property

2990
01:30:07,053 --> 01:30:07,303
assessment.

2991
01:30:10,386 --> 01:30:10,636
I wanted to add verbally that we

2992
01:30:12,319 --> 01:30:12,569
may disagree on the reasons why.

2993
01:30:16,219 --> 01:30:16,469
This is occurring because on a

2994
01:30:16,919 --> 01:30:17,169
nationwide basis,

2995
01:30:20,553 --> 01:30:20,803
assessments are not incorrect

2996
01:30:22,353 --> 01:30:22,603
because property was not.

2997
01:30:24,519 --> 01:30:24,769
Able to be assessed from within.

2998
01:30:30,286 --> 01:30:30,536
It's more because they're being

2999
01:30:32,353 --> 01:30:32,603
assessed on a mass basis.

3000
01:30:34,319 --> 01:30:34,569
And so,

3001
01:30:36,386 --> 01:30:36,636
Just off the cuff, I didn't

3002
01:30:38,386 --> 01:30:38,636
think about solutions. I just

3003
01:30:40,453 --> 01:30:40,703
wanted to present problems, but

3004
01:30:41,086 --> 01:30:41,336
as I listened to the group,

3005
01:30:44,319 --> 01:30:44,569
I just wonder if you wanted to

3006
01:30:46,319 --> 01:30:46,569
incorporate technology.

3007
01:30:50,353 --> 01:30:50,603
Is it possible to partner with

3008
01:30:51,053 --> 01:30:51,303
Google?

3009
01:30:52,653 --> 01:30:52,903
Or to create a system like

3010
01:30:56,486 --> 01:30:56,736
Google yourselves and not

3011
01:31:00,286 --> 01:31:00,536
necessarily to create a database

3012
01:31:00,919 --> 01:31:01,169
for every single property in the

3013
01:31:04,186 --> 01:31:04,436
state, but perhaps create a

3014
01:31:04,786 --> 01:31:05,036
database of unique properties

3015
01:31:08,219 --> 01:31:08,469
that don't apply to their

3016
01:31:08,719 --> 01:31:08,969
neighboring homes.

3017
01:31:10,486 --> 01:31:10,736
Um, I don't know if this is

3018
01:31:12,386 --> 01:31:12,636
possible or feasible. It's just,

3019
01:31:14,386 --> 01:31:14,636
like I said, an off the cuff

3020
01:31:16,253 --> 01:31:16,503
suggestion because that's the

3021
01:31:18,286 --> 01:31:18,536
biggest problem is some houses

3022
01:31:18,919 --> 01:31:19,169
are assessed and they're very

3023
01:31:20,486 --> 01:31:20,736
different from their neighbors,

3024
01:31:22,253 --> 01:31:22,503
not necessarily on the inside.

3025
01:31:22,886 --> 01:31:23,136
Um,

3026
01:31:26,286 --> 01:31:26,536
And besides that,

3027
01:31:28,353 --> 01:31:28,603
Just to uh my advice.

3028
01:31:30,519 --> 01:31:30,769
would be if you were to pursue

3029
01:31:32,419 --> 01:31:32,669
that avenue, just stay away from

3030
01:31:33,119 --> 01:31:33,369
Zillow.

3031
01:31:34,519 --> 01:31:34,769
Because unfortunately they've

3032
01:31:36,453 --> 01:31:36,703
obviously become the nationwide

3033
01:31:40,253 --> 01:31:40,503
go to for property, and they're

3034
01:31:40,986 --> 01:31:41,236
often incorrect.

3035
01:31:44,186 --> 01:31:44,436
And I say this not only from

3036
01:31:44,853 --> 01:31:45,103
reading about it, but from

3037
01:31:46,386 --> 01:31:46,636
personal experience. My husband

3038
01:31:48,353 --> 01:31:48,603
and I sold a property 2 years

3039
01:31:50,319 --> 01:31:50,569
ago and we sold it for double.

3040
01:31:52,419 --> 01:31:52,669
The amount that Zillow said it

3041
01:31:53,119 --> 01:31:53,369
was worth.

3042
01:31:54,286 --> 01:31:54,536
That's a lot.

3043
01:31:58,319 --> 01:31:58,569
Um, besides that, I don't think

3044
01:32:00,219 --> 01:32:00,469
I have anything else to say, so

3045
01:32:00,919 --> 01:32:01,169
thank you for your patience and

3046
01:32:01,586 --> 01:32:01,836
time.

3047
01:32:02,486 --> 01:32:02,736
Thank you, Lisa. Thank you,

3048
01:32:06,186 --> 01:32:06,436
Lisa. Any final comments from

3049
01:32:06,853 --> 01:32:07,103
the members of the group?

3050
01:32:08,486 --> 01:32:08,736
If not with no objections, we're

3051
01:32:09,219 --> 01:32:09,469
adjourned.

3052
01:32:12,386 --> 01:32:12,636
Thank you. Also, Kate will be

3053
01:32:13,019 --> 01:32:13,269
sending out calendar invites for

3054
01:32:13,719 --> 01:32:13,969
like the next.

3055
01:32:16,486 --> 01:32:16,736
Very nice. The next, uh, you

3056
01:32:17,053 --> 01:32:17,303
know.

3057
01:32:20,519 --> 01:32:20,769
Instead of needing until the end

3058
01:32:22,319 --> 01:32:22,569
of the year. Yeah, yes, well,

3059
01:32:24,186 --> 01:32:24,436
obviously taking into account

3060
01:32:24,853 --> 01:32:25,103
holidays and things like that,

3061
01:32:26,386 --> 01:32:26,636
but, um, there is nothing that

3062
01:32:28,253 --> 01:32:28,503
keeps us to those, so if we get

3063
01:32:28,919 --> 01:32:29,169
done early, we get to get done

3064
01:32:30,486 --> 01:32:30,736
early. So, all right. Thank you

3065
01:32:31,186 --> 01:32:31,436
all so much. Thanks so much.

3066
01:32:31,753 --> 01:32:32,003
Thank you.

3067
01:32:32,386 --> 01:32:32,636
I.