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Are we, we're live. We're good.

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OK.

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Um, members of the committee,

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we, we, this is our normal

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script for our committee, and we

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all know this, uh, as

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legislators, but so that you're

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aware, um, those microphones

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when they're green, um, they're

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alive, they're hot. So whatever

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you say, even under your breath,

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it

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gets

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picked up if you need to say

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something.

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Just tap it and it'll turn red

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and you can, you can say

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whatever you want, um, but

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please be aware they are, they

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do pick up conversations easily.

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The mics are connected to the

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live stream so the public can

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watch, uh, the property

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assessment working group meeting

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is called to order. Members of

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the public are available to

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participate either in person or

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virtually through the Zoom

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webinar by registering via the

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meeting link that's posted on

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the General Assembly's website.

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Instructions for providing

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public comment are posted on the

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General Assembly's website under

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this committee meeting's notice

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and will be provided during the

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public comment portion of the

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hearing. Written comments may be

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submitted to catherine. Bowman@

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Delaware.gov. Kate at my aid.

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and any comments received within

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24 hours after the hearing will

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be included into the public

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record. Members of the public

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physically present for the

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meeting may sign up if they

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would like to provide public

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comment at the end. Please note

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that, um, when we do take votes,

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they are done by roll call. So

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we'll start today by taking.

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A roll call of the voting

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members of the working group

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present.

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present. Representative Senator

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Mansabvinos is absent. The port

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is doing the um groundbreaking

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today. So

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he is absent but will be here

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next time.

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Representative Spiegelman

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present.

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Representative Senator

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Mansabvinos is absent. The port

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is doing the um groundbreaking

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today. So he is absent but will

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be here next time.

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Representative Spiegelman.

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Senator Buxton is on his way.

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Um,

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Rebecca Goldsmith,

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uh, Gina Jennings, present,

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present.

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Susan Durham, present. David Del

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Grande present. Justin Immers.

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Present. Present.

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Bob Older.

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Absent, um, Rich Morris present.

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And Sydney presents present

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present. Excellent. So, um, we

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do not have the minutes, uh, for

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the last meeting, so we will

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approve those typically we would

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have to approve the minutes. We

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will do that um on August 31st

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in our next meeting. So, yes, I

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do want to thank all of you for

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being here. Um, I, I do kind of

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apologize in advance. I know

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some of the things we're going

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to be hearing are um

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retrospective, um.

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Be assured that our following

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meetings will be looking

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forward.

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um, and I want to thank all of

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the counties for, um, finishing

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that questionnaire. I know it

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was pretty quick turnaround

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time. So for the other members

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of the committee, um.

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Myself and and Kate and Justin

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had created a Google doc

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um of questions about um

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basically where they were at the

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beginning of their last

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assessment, um, staff wise, um,

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property counts, different

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parcel counts, we'll go over

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that information with you.

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Justin will go over that

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information with you, um, and

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then where they are now so that

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we can look and see still are

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there additional gaps that need

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to be um to be looked at. So,

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um, I want to thank.

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All of the um.

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The the counties for being so

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forthright and really direct. I

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tried to put that huge

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disclaimer on the thing. Please

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don't overthink this. Don't be

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like, I gotta have my attorneys

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look at this first. It was not

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to say you said there were

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209,000 properties and it was

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not to say you said there were

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209,000 properties and it's

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The the counties for being so

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forthright and really direct. I

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tried to put that huge

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disclaimer on the thing, please

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don't overthink this. Don't be

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like, I gotta have my attorneys

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look at this first. It was not

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to say you said there were

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209,000 properties and it was

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actually 208,000. Like it wasn't

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about that, it was to get a

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general overview for uh for

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Justin mainly to, to really

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identify where we are as a

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state. Um, and then on the last

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section, Justin will get into as

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well, is really like how can the

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state better support you.

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Because I know, um.

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You know, this is a really eye

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opening experience, uh, for

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those of us in the General

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Assembly, um.

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To realize how, quite frankly,

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the state also failed in this as

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far as, you know.

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Before I got here, but, um,

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really realizing like.

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Wow, we haven't done this in 40

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years. It might not go well.

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Like, instead, just kind of

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really relying on the counties

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to do, to do this work. And so,

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um, one thing that I'm really

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impressed with the General

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Assembly that we have had in the

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past few years is that we're not

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kicking problems down the road

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anymore. You've seen that with

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um school education funding,

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you've seen it with, um,

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hopefully now with with property

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tax, you've seen it with a lot

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of different things, um,

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redistricting potentially

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we're we're really saying, um, I

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know we had our.

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retirees and, and, you know.

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that

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Healthcare, we're just not

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kicking problems down the road

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anymore.

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um, we're really tackling them,

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and this is part of that. So,

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Thank you for your honesty and

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everything on that. um, Justin,

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um, today's agenda is we are

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going to be going through that.

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Um, some of the actions, and

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next thing on our agenda is the

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actions from the last meeting.

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um, we had had a conversation

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about adding additional voting

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members to the committee, um, so

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we had talked about adding

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somebody from the League of

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Local Governments. We talked

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about adding somebody from the

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city of Wilmington, and we

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talked about adding.

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Uh, potentially an assessor or

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an appraiser, and then

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throughout the conversation, we

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decided not to add the

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oppressor.

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The assessors, but to have them

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more come in and maybe do a

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presentation of some of the, the

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experiences that they had, um,

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or suggestions that they have

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moving forward. So the two that

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are really on, um, on the

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On the um

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on the list for today is really

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to vote yes or no

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on adding the League of Local

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Governments or adding um uh

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who's her name is Janelle

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Cornwall, and, um, I spoke to

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them last week and I also spoke

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to Christian Wellauer. So I'm

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just going to take a role on it

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unless there's any discussion.

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Does anyone wanna have

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discussion? I mean, it's, I want

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this to be open conversational

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whatever the group feels I want

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to do the right thing. Does

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anyone have conversation on

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either one of those. All right,

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well, we will vote on Janelle.

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First, so Janelle Cornwall,

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well, sorry, is from the League

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of Local Governments, and I will

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take a role on this, um, to add

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her to the committee.

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Representative Homer, yes. Uh,

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Senator Mancivino is absent.

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Representative Spiegelman,

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voting yes. Yes. Senator Buxton

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absent, but he is on his way.

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Uh, Rebecca, yes, yes. Uh, Gina

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Jennings. Yes. Yes, Susan

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Durham. Yes. David Del Grande.

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Yes. Justin Imers.

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Yeah.

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Uh, Bob Older's absent, Rich

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Morse, yes, yes, and Sydney

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Grassnickel. Yes, yes, yes. So

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congratulations or apologies,

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Uh, Janelle Cornwell has been

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added as a voting member to the

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group. Uh, the second person is

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Christian Willauer. I, I will

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say I did look at the other

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working group and um they do

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have somebody from the city of

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Wilmington. What I will commit

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to this group is I will make

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sure we do not go down rabbit

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holes of hyper-specific, um, if

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she gets voted in

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hyper-specific.

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Conversations about um.

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One specific area unless it

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addresses the overall, like how

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the assessments are done. If

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it's like more of a case study

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on how this happened, kind of

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like for, for Sydney has brought

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up um some of the issues with

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agriculture. We may look at one

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particular issue with

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understanding that that's more

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of a.

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A holistic problem, it's just

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anecdotal, um, but I know, I

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know this isn't a Wilmington

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A holistic problem, it's just

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anecdotal, um, but I know, I

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know this isn't a we'll meet in

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working group, but again,

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Yes,

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I was just gonna say on

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Wilmington, it's, I think it's

285
00:07:58,524 --> 00:07:58,774
worth noting that from the Tyler

286
00:08:02,191 --> 00:08:02,441
reports, there was a type of

287
00:08:04,357 --> 00:08:04,607
problem in Wilmington that

288
00:08:04,924 --> 00:08:05,174
didn't show up anywhere else. So

289
00:08:06,524 --> 00:08:06,774
I think from that perspective it

290
00:08:08,491 --> 00:08:08,741
would be very useful to have

291
00:08:09,091 --> 00:08:09,341
some Christian.

292
00:08:10,357 --> 00:08:10,607
agreed.

293
00:08:12,391 --> 00:08:12,641
Excellent. All right,

294
00:08:14,291 --> 00:08:14,541
Representative for Christian

295
00:08:14,891 --> 00:08:15,141
Willer, Representative Romer,

296
00:08:16,391 --> 00:08:16,641
yes. Senator Mancivino's absent.

297
00:08:18,391 --> 00:08:18,641
Representative Spiegelman, yes.

298
00:08:20,424 --> 00:08:20,674
Senator Buxton, absent.

299
00:08:22,457 --> 00:08:22,707
Uh, Rebecca Gold, I keep

300
00:08:24,191 --> 00:08:24,441
mumbling your last name. I can't

301
00:08:24,857 --> 00:08:25,107
Excellent. All right,

302
00:08:25,324 --> 00:08:25,574
Representative for Christian

303
00:08:25,924 --> 00:08:26,174
Willer, Representative Romer,

304
00:08:26,591 --> 00:08:26,841
yes. Senator Mancivino's absent.

305
00:08:27,324 --> 00:08:27,574
Representative Spiegelman, yes.

306
00:08:28,024 --> 00:08:28,274
Senator Buxton, absent. Uh,

307
00:08:28,657 --> 00:08:28,907
Rebecca Gold, I keep mumbling

308
00:08:29,257 --> 00:08:29,507
your last name because I can't

309
00:08:29,957 --> 00:08:30,207
remember if it's Goldsmith or

310
00:08:30,624 --> 00:08:30,874
Goldsmith. OK.

311
00:08:30,991 --> 00:08:31,241
Excellent. All right,

312
00:08:31,457 --> 00:08:31,707
Representative for Christian

313
00:08:32,057 --> 00:08:32,307
Willer, Representative Romer,

314
00:08:32,724 --> 00:08:32,974
yes. Senator Mancivino's absent.

315
00:08:33,457 --> 00:08:33,707
Representative Spiegelman, yes.

316
00:08:34,124 --> 00:08:34,374
Senator Buxton, absent. Uh,

317
00:08:34,724 --> 00:08:34,974
Rebecca Gold, I keep mumbling

318
00:08:35,391 --> 00:08:35,641
your last name because I can't

319
00:08:36,091 --> 00:08:36,341
remember if it's Goldsmith or

320
00:08:36,691 --> 00:08:36,941
Goldsmith.

321
00:08:36,957 --> 00:08:37,207
I a better scene, right? Like

322
00:08:37,557 --> 00:08:37,807
it's like when I keep going,

323
00:08:38,157 --> 00:08:38,407
it's Rebecca Golds like that I'm

324
00:08:38,857 --> 00:08:39,107
like just address it, Cindy

325
00:08:39,424 --> 00:08:39,674
Goldsmith, uh, yes,

326
00:08:39,924 --> 00:08:40,174
uh, Gina Jennings, yes, uh,

327
00:08:40,524 --> 00:08:40,774
David Del Grande, I have a

328
00:08:41,091 --> 00:08:41,341
question. Yes. Is it possible to

329
00:08:41,824 --> 00:08:42,074
have someone from

330
00:08:42,191 --> 00:08:42,441
administration?

331
00:08:42,591 --> 00:08:42,841
Wilmington versus a city council

332
00:08:43,291 --> 00:08:43,541
member.

333
00:08:44,491 --> 00:08:44,741
For consistency.

334
00:08:48,257 --> 00:08:48,507
It is, um, I'm gonna be.

335
00:08:52,424 --> 00:08:52,674
Really honest in my opinion on

336
00:08:53,057 --> 00:08:53,307
this, um.

337
00:08:56,291 --> 00:08:56,541
Uh

338
00:09:00,491 --> 00:09:00,741
I'll be really honest on this,

339
00:09:02,224 --> 00:09:02,474
OK, with the group.

340
00:09:04,391 --> 00:09:04,641
When I called the city of

341
00:09:06,391 --> 00:09:06,641
Wilmington to talk about what

342
00:09:08,224 --> 00:09:08,474
went wrong when we were in the

343
00:09:08,924 --> 00:09:09,174
hearing phase.

344
00:09:10,524 --> 00:09:10,774
They were like, county didn't do

345
00:09:12,257 --> 00:09:12,507
the permits, the county didn't

346
00:09:12,857 --> 00:09:13,107
do the permits, so they didn't

347
00:09:14,424 --> 00:09:14,674
get the permit data. Come to

348
00:09:14,991 --> 00:09:15,241
find out.

349
00:09:16,557 --> 00:09:16,807
They didn't send the permit

350
00:09:18,457 --> 00:09:18,707
data. It had been asked of the

351
00:09:20,357 --> 00:09:20,607
city. They didn't send it.

352
00:09:22,391 --> 00:09:22,641
And then I went and looked at

353
00:09:24,324 --> 00:09:24,574
the law and said, oh, let's

354
00:09:24,991 --> 00:09:25,241
change the law and make sure

355
00:09:26,257 --> 00:09:26,507
they send it. It was already law

356
00:09:26,924 --> 00:09:27,174
that they were supposed to send

357
00:09:27,624 --> 00:09:27,874
it.

358
00:09:28,724 --> 00:09:28,974
And so my only concern in in

359
00:09:30,391 --> 00:09:30,641
inviting somebody from the

360
00:09:32,291 --> 00:09:32,541
administration is, to be honest,

361
00:09:32,991 --> 00:09:33,241
how forthcoming they're going to

362
00:09:34,357 --> 00:09:34,607
be with really what's going on.

363
00:09:36,224 --> 00:09:36,474
And I, and I'm not trying to

364
00:09:36,891 --> 00:09:37,141
throw anybody there specifically

365
00:09:40,324 --> 00:09:40,574
under the bus. But I, in good

366
00:09:42,224 --> 00:09:42,474
faith when I ask a question, I

367
00:09:44,357 --> 00:09:44,607
want a good faith answer. And

368
00:09:46,324 --> 00:09:46,574
that to me just didn't feel like

369
00:09:46,957 --> 00:09:47,207
very good faith. And so that's

370
00:09:48,424 --> 00:09:48,674
my only concern about inviting

371
00:09:50,257 --> 00:09:50,507
the administration, but open up

372
00:09:50,924 --> 00:09:51,174
to everybody else and their

373
00:09:52,591 --> 00:09:52,841
concern, their questions. Thank

374
00:09:53,324 --> 00:09:53,574
you. I appreciate that.

375
00:09:56,324 --> 00:09:56,574
OK.

376
00:09:58,224 --> 00:09:58,474
Um, Justin.

377
00:10:02,324 --> 00:10:02,574
Yes, yes, uh, Bob Older, absent,

378
00:10:04,324 --> 00:10:04,574
Rich Morish, yes, and Cindy

379
00:10:06,357 --> 00:10:06,607
Grass, yes, yes, OK, having

380
00:10:08,224 --> 00:10:08,474
required the num number of votes

381
00:10:08,857 --> 00:10:09,107
for both of these, um,

382
00:10:10,491 --> 00:10:10,741
individuals, we will add them on

383
00:10:11,191 --> 00:10:11,441
as, um,

384
00:10:14,424 --> 00:10:14,674
New voting members. Um, Janelle

385
00:10:15,057 --> 00:10:15,307
is on, is Christian?

386
00:10:20,191 --> 00:10:20,441
OK, so Christian is not, I can

387
00:10:20,791 --> 00:10:21,041
text her if she cannot, um, come

388
00:10:22,457 --> 00:10:22,707
in, otherwise she'll just be

389
00:10:24,224 --> 00:10:24,474
here for the next, for the next

390
00:10:26,324 --> 00:10:26,574
meeting. So thank you, thank you

391
00:10:27,024 --> 00:10:27,274
all again.

392
00:10:30,291 --> 00:10:30,541
Say anything you feel, say

393
00:10:30,857 --> 00:10:31,107
anything you want. This is, this

394
00:10:32,224 --> 00:10:32,474
is how we're going to get things

395
00:10:34,191 --> 00:10:34,441
done. Um, I'm going to turn it

396
00:10:34,857 --> 00:10:35,107
over to Justin.

397
00:10:38,557 --> 00:10:38,807
Um, who has a presentation for

398
00:10:40,524 --> 00:10:40,774
us, um, going through the

399
00:10:41,091 --> 00:10:41,341
surveys again.

400
00:10:42,524 --> 00:10:42,774
Which is why I should have

401
00:10:44,424 --> 00:10:44,674
brought food. This is gonna be a

402
00:10:45,124 --> 00:10:45,374
Which is why I should have

403
00:10:45,691 --> 00:10:45,941
brought food. This is going to

404
00:10:46,357 --> 00:10:46,607
be a little repetitive, uh, with

405
00:10:48,424 --> 00:10:48,674
some of the things, um, but I do

406
00:10:49,124 --> 00:10:49,374
think at the end,

407
00:10:52,224 --> 00:10:52,474
especially when he gets through,

408
00:10:52,891 --> 00:10:53,141
um, to the suggestions for the

409
00:10:54,491 --> 00:10:54,741
state. He has some really good

410
00:10:56,424 --> 00:10:56,674
feedback for us on what other

411
00:10:58,291 --> 00:10:58,541
states do and and how we can

412
00:10:58,924 --> 00:10:59,174
move forward. And like I said,

413
00:11:00,524 --> 00:11:00,774
um, you know, it's going to be

414
00:11:02,391 --> 00:11:02,641
the recommendations of this

415
00:11:02,991 --> 00:11:03,241
group, and I was looking through

416
00:11:04,357 --> 00:11:04,607
some of the feedback you have,

417
00:11:06,224 --> 00:11:06,474
and I was like, yeah, yeah,

418
00:11:06,791 --> 00:11:07,041
yeah, like these are things

419
00:11:07,357 --> 00:11:07,607
that, um.

420
00:11:10,324 --> 00:11:10,574
That the state really should

421
00:11:12,391 --> 00:11:12,641
provide more support on for the

422
00:11:14,324 --> 00:11:14,574
counties, um, especially

423
00:11:14,891 --> 00:11:15,141
considering how much of that

424
00:11:16,724 --> 00:11:16,974
bill is for state schools.

425
00:11:18,324 --> 00:11:18,574
they're not county schools,

426
00:11:20,324 --> 00:11:20,574
they're state ICU ICU, Gina,

427
00:11:22,391 --> 00:11:22,641
Uh, these are state schools, not

428
00:11:24,324 --> 00:11:24,574
city schools. I think you may

429
00:11:24,924 --> 00:11:25,174
have even been the one that put

430
00:11:26,324 --> 00:11:26,574
it on the thing, but these are

431
00:11:27,024 --> 00:11:27,274
state schools. These are not

432
00:11:28,491 --> 00:11:28,741
county schools, um, we don't

433
00:11:30,224 --> 00:11:30,474
have counties, uh, schools in

434
00:11:30,891 --> 00:11:31,141
That the state really should

435
00:11:31,491 --> 00:11:31,741
provide more support on for the

436
00:11:32,157 --> 00:11:32,407
counties, um, especially

437
00:11:32,757 --> 00:11:33,007
considering how much of that

438
00:11:33,357 --> 00:11:33,607
bill is for state schools,

439
00:11:33,957 --> 00:11:34,207
they're not county schools,

440
00:11:34,524 --> 00:11:34,774
they're state ICU ICU, Gina. Uh,

441
00:11:35,224 --> 00:11:35,474
these are state schools, not

442
00:11:35,791 --> 00:11:36,041
city schools. I think you may

443
00:11:36,357 --> 00:11:36,607
have even been the one that put

444
00:11:37,057 --> 00:11:37,307
it on the thing, but these are

445
00:11:37,724 --> 00:11:37,974
state schools. These are not

446
00:11:38,324 --> 00:11:38,574
county schools, um, we don't

447
00:11:38,924 --> 00:11:39,174
have counties, uh, schools. So

448
00:11:39,624 --> 00:11:39,874
I'm going to turn it over to

449
00:11:40,224 --> 00:11:40,474
Justin, unless anyone has

450
00:11:40,824 --> 00:11:41,074
questions before. OK.

451
00:11:41,324 --> 00:11:41,574
OK.

452
00:11:41,574 --> 00:11:41,824
Right.

453
00:11:41,824 --> 00:11:42,074
OK. Thank you very much. Um, I

454
00:11:42,391 --> 00:11:42,641
would also like to thank the

455
00:11:44,757 --> 00:11:45,007
counties, uh, for their time

456
00:11:46,457 --> 00:11:46,707
putting together all the, the

457
00:11:48,357 --> 00:11:48,607
answers to questions that we

458
00:11:50,391 --> 00:11:50,641
asked, um, I know they spent a

459
00:11:52,224 --> 00:11:52,474
lot of late nights and weekends

460
00:11:54,257 --> 00:11:54,507
even answering some of these, so

461
00:11:54,924 --> 00:11:55,174
I really appreciate that.

462
00:11:58,257 --> 00:11:58,507
OK, so, um, we're just gonna

463
00:11:58,824 --> 00:11:59,074
kinda go over.

464
00:12:02,191 --> 00:12:02,441
You know what, what happened in

465
00:12:02,857 --> 00:12:03,107
the reassessment and in

466
00:12:03,324 --> 00:12:03,574
counties.

467
00:12:04,391 --> 00:12:04,641
You know,

468
00:12:08,224 --> 00:12:08,474
if, if they have something else

469
00:12:10,257 --> 00:12:10,507
to add at any point, or I

470
00:12:10,857 --> 00:12:11,107
misrepresent anything, you know,

471
00:12:11,557 --> 00:12:11,807
please jump in.

472
00:12:12,524 --> 00:12:12,774
So,

473
00:12:18,257 --> 00:12:18,507
OK, just a little bit about me,

474
00:12:20,291 --> 00:12:20,541
just so you know who's who's

475
00:12:22,257 --> 00:12:22,507
talking here. Um, I'm an

476
00:12:22,824 --> 00:12:23,074
assessment advisor with the

477
00:12:24,524 --> 00:12:24,774
International Association of

478
00:12:26,424 --> 00:12:26,674
Assessing Officers, we promote

479
00:12:28,257 --> 00:12:28,507
fair and equitable property

480
00:12:30,324 --> 00:12:30,574
values around the world. I'm a

481
00:12:32,324 --> 00:12:32,574
former Miami County, Kansas

482
00:12:34,224 --> 00:12:34,474
County appraiser. I've been in

483
00:12:36,224 --> 00:12:36,474
the assessment industry for over

484
00:12:36,957 --> 00:12:37,207
20 years. Uh, I've got a

485
00:12:38,557 --> 00:12:38,807
bachelor of Science and

486
00:12:40,491 --> 00:12:40,741
Economics from Kansas State

487
00:12:41,091 --> 00:12:41,341
University.

488
00:12:44,324 --> 00:12:44,574
I've got an assessment

489
00:12:44,857 --> 00:12:45,107
administration designation from

490
00:12:46,457 --> 00:12:46,707
the International Association of

491
00:12:48,357 --> 00:12:48,607
Assessing Officers, and I'm a

492
00:12:48,957 --> 00:12:49,207
Kansas registered mass

493
00:12:49,457 --> 00:12:49,707
appraiser.

494
00:12:50,424 --> 00:12:50,674
Um,

495
00:12:54,357 --> 00:12:54,607
A little bit about my

496
00:12:54,791 --> 00:12:55,041
background, other than just like

497
00:12:56,491 --> 00:12:56,741
those high level stats. Um, I've

498
00:12:58,424 --> 00:12:58,674
worked every job in an

499
00:13:00,557 --> 00:13:00,807
assessment office from measuring

500
00:13:02,524 --> 00:13:02,774
homes on site to building

501
00:13:04,457 --> 00:13:04,707
valuation models to property

502
00:13:08,324 --> 00:13:08,574
valuation to testifying in a

503
00:13:10,557 --> 00:13:10,807
court of Tax Appeals. Um, I've

504
00:13:12,457 --> 00:13:12,707
been a county appraiser, so I've

505
00:13:14,324 --> 00:13:14,574
been in charge of, it's the same

506
00:13:16,291 --> 00:13:16,541
as county assessor in charge of

507
00:13:18,324 --> 00:13:18,574
the whole assessment process for

508
00:13:20,391 --> 00:13:20,641
multiple years. Um, I've helped

509
00:13:22,257 --> 00:13:22,507
complete 18 countywide

510
00:13:22,757 --> 00:13:23,007
revaluations.

511
00:13:24,491 --> 00:13:24,741
I've got experience valuing all

512
00:13:26,524 --> 00:13:26,774
types of real estate from single

513
00:13:28,257 --> 00:13:28,507
family to um.

514
00:13:30,557 --> 00:13:30,807
Pretty much any commercial real

515
00:13:32,324 --> 00:13:32,574
estate property type or

516
00:13:34,524 --> 00:13:34,774
agricultural property type. Um,

517
00:13:36,491 --> 00:13:36,741
I've supported assessment

518
00:13:38,324 --> 00:13:38,574
processes in, in my current

519
00:13:40,557 --> 00:13:40,807
position in Texas. I've, I've

520
00:13:42,557 --> 00:13:42,807
worked in Louisiana, Vermont,

521
00:13:46,224 --> 00:13:46,474
Kansas, Michigan, Ontario, and

522
00:13:48,457 --> 00:13:48,707
the United Kingdom. Um, I'm also

523
00:13:54,257 --> 00:13:54,507
an IAO course instructor. So

524
00:13:54,857 --> 00:13:55,107
enough about me, um.

525
00:13:58,224 --> 00:13:58,474
A little bit about my

526
00:13:58,657 --> 00:13:58,907
organization, just, you know,

527
00:13:59,257 --> 00:13:59,507
A little bit about my

528
00:13:59,724 --> 00:13:59,974
organization, just so you know,

529
00:14:00,457 --> 00:14:00,707
kind of where we're at, where we

530
00:14:01,091 --> 00:14:01,341
come from,

531
00:14:02,391 --> 00:14:02,641
um, professional consulting

532
00:14:04,457 --> 00:14:04,707
services of IAAO is a wholly

533
00:14:06,257 --> 00:14:06,507
owned subsidiary of the

534
00:14:06,791 --> 00:14:07,041
International Association of

535
00:14:10,357 --> 00:14:10,607
Assessing Officers. Um, we, we,

536
00:14:12,357 --> 00:14:12,607
do IAAO does education,

537
00:14:14,224 --> 00:14:14,474
research, professional

538
00:14:16,324 --> 00:14:16,574
standards. Um, we deliver

539
00:14:16,891 --> 00:14:17,141
independent data-driven

540
00:14:18,591 --> 00:14:18,841
consulting services tailored

541
00:14:20,557 --> 00:14:20,807
specifically to those in mass

542
00:14:22,424 --> 00:14:22,674
appraisal and assessment

543
00:14:22,924 --> 00:14:23,174
industry community.

544
00:14:26,357 --> 00:14:26,607
Um, we're, we're number one in,

545
00:14:28,357 --> 00:14:28,607
in the US as far as all all

546
00:14:28,957 --> 00:14:29,207
these.

547
00:14:32,357 --> 00:14:32,607
Things go, um, we're pretty much

548
00:14:33,024 --> 00:14:33,274
go to, um.

549
00:14:36,424 --> 00:14:36,674
And then a little bit about

550
00:14:38,557 --> 00:14:38,807
IAAO, our parent organization,

551
00:14:40,657 --> 00:14:40,907
founded in 1934. We've got over

552
00:14:44,224 --> 00:14:44,474
8000 members around the world.

553
00:14:46,591 --> 00:14:46,841
We've got 38 chapters

554
00:14:47,057 --> 00:14:47,307
internationally.

555
00:14:50,457 --> 00:14:50,707
We have 15 standards on

556
00:14:52,291 --> 00:14:52,541
assessment best practices.

557
00:14:54,557 --> 00:14:54,807
We offer 16 assessment courses,

558
00:14:56,524 --> 00:14:56,774
23 workshops. We've got an

559
00:14:58,524 --> 00:14:58,774
assessment conference in Calgary

560
00:15:00,357 --> 00:15:00,607
this year, and we've got one

561
00:15:00,957 --> 00:15:01,207
every year. No, they're

562
00:15:04,257 --> 00:15:04,507
typically in North America, uh,

563
00:15:06,224 --> 00:15:06,474
GIS evaluation Technology

564
00:15:06,757 --> 00:15:07,007
conference every year, uh,

565
00:15:08,357 --> 00:15:08,607
international evaluation

566
00:15:10,291 --> 00:15:10,541
symposium. A lot of times those

567
00:15:12,357 --> 00:15:12,607
are are over in Europe and then

568
00:15:14,324 --> 00:15:14,574
a mass appraisal evaluation

569
00:15:16,491 --> 00:15:16,741
symposium that's virtual, so

570
00:15:18,391 --> 00:15:18,641
just sort of some of the things

571
00:15:20,291 --> 00:15:20,541
that we offer and we do as an

572
00:15:20,891 --> 00:15:21,141
organization.

573
00:15:24,224 --> 00:15:24,474
Um, so what are, you know, what

574
00:15:26,357 --> 00:15:26,607
is PCS helping with? Um, we're,

575
00:15:28,257 --> 00:15:28,507
we're serving the working group

576
00:15:28,924 --> 00:15:29,174
as an independent technical

577
00:15:30,324 --> 00:15:30,574
advisor and subject matter

578
00:15:32,324 --> 00:15:32,574
expert. So, just trying to give,

579
00:15:34,491 --> 00:15:34,741
um, you know, outside Delaware

580
00:15:38,324 --> 00:15:38,574
perspective, um, best practices,

581
00:15:40,457 --> 00:15:40,707
standards, sort of perspective

582
00:15:42,424 --> 00:15:42,674
on, on what's going on within

583
00:15:43,091 --> 00:15:43,341
Delaware.

584
00:15:48,391 --> 00:15:48,641
Um, OK, so a lot of people are

585
00:15:50,224 --> 00:15:50,474
kind of wondering, OK, how did

586
00:15:52,224 --> 00:15:52,474
the assessment go? And I know

587
00:15:52,891 --> 00:15:53,141
everyone's got their own opinion

588
00:15:56,291 --> 00:15:56,541
on it. But this is sort of my

589
00:15:58,191 --> 00:15:58,441
perspective based on the

590
00:15:58,724 --> 00:15:58,974
information I've seen so far,

591
00:16:00,624 --> 00:16:00,874
um, and, and I think it, it

592
00:16:02,457 --> 00:16:02,707
helps it kind of add some

593
00:16:04,457 --> 00:16:04,707
perspective to the reassessment.

594
00:16:08,324 --> 00:16:08,574
And one thing is, is an

595
00:16:10,224 --> 00:16:10,474
appraisal or an assessment is an

596
00:16:10,891 --> 00:16:11,141
estimate of value. So.

597
00:16:14,191 --> 00:16:14,441
Typically it's not right on the

598
00:16:14,824 --> 00:16:15,074
dollar amount of of what the

599
00:16:16,357 --> 00:16:16,607
property is going to sell for.

600
00:16:18,357 --> 00:16:18,607
It's an estimate. And so, you

601
00:16:18,991 --> 00:16:19,241
know, typically, you're trying

602
00:16:20,491 --> 00:16:20,741
to get within a reasonable range

603
00:16:22,257 --> 00:16:22,507
of what it would sell for.

604
00:16:26,191 --> 00:16:26,441
Um, assessors goal is to produce

605
00:16:28,224 --> 00:16:28,474
as perfect of a reassessment as

606
00:16:28,857 --> 00:16:29,107
possible. They're working really

607
00:16:30,524 --> 00:16:30,774
hard to get that number down,

608
00:16:32,424 --> 00:16:32,674
you know, as close to market as

609
00:16:34,424 --> 00:16:34,674
they can get it. Do they always

610
00:16:36,424 --> 00:16:36,674
hit it? No. Uh, no reassessment

611
00:16:38,491 --> 00:16:38,741
is perfect. I can tell you that,

612
00:16:39,191 --> 00:16:39,441
and, you know.

613
00:16:44,291 --> 00:16:44,541
Working on 18 revaluation, um,

614
00:16:44,957 --> 00:16:45,207
that, you know,

615
00:16:48,291 --> 00:16:48,541
None of them ever goes perfect.

616
00:16:50,191 --> 00:16:50,441
Do you try to get him as perfect

617
00:16:50,891 --> 00:16:51,141
as possible, yes, but when

618
00:16:54,324 --> 00:16:54,574
you've got literally thousands

619
00:16:54,991 --> 00:16:55,241
of

620
00:16:56,391 --> 00:16:56,641
processes you're going through

621
00:16:58,257 --> 00:16:58,507
and you're looking at, you know,

622
00:16:58,891 --> 00:16:59,141
100s of thousands of properties.

623
00:17:00,557 --> 00:17:00,807
It's, you know, you try to get

624
00:17:02,424 --> 00:17:02,674
it as good as you can, never

625
00:17:03,091 --> 00:17:03,341
gonna be 100% perfect.

626
00:17:06,391 --> 00:17:06,641
Uh, Delaware hadn't reassessed

627
00:17:08,324 --> 00:17:08,574
property in 40 or 50 years.

628
00:17:10,324 --> 00:17:10,574
That's, that's a long time to go

629
00:17:12,224 --> 00:17:12,474
without a reassessment. Some

630
00:17:14,191 --> 00:17:14,441
states reassess every single

631
00:17:16,424 --> 00:17:16,674
year, and so 40, you know, 40 or

632
00:17:18,324 --> 00:17:18,574
50 years, that's a really long

633
00:17:19,024 --> 00:17:19,274
time, um.

634
00:17:22,191 --> 00:17:22,441
When you haven't reassessed in

635
00:17:22,824 --> 00:17:23,074
40 years. Every process is going

636
00:17:24,191 --> 00:17:24,441
When you haven't reassessed in

637
00:17:24,891 --> 00:17:25,141
40 years. Every process is gonna

638
00:17:25,591 --> 00:17:25,841
When you haven't reassessed in

639
00:17:26,291 --> 00:17:26,541
40 years. Every process is going

640
00:17:26,957 --> 00:17:27,207
to be new, uh, new for counties,

641
00:17:28,224 --> 00:17:28,474
new for property owners. It's,

642
00:17:28,857 --> 00:17:29,107
it's sort of one of those things

643
00:17:30,457 --> 00:17:30,707
where it's like everyone's got

644
00:17:31,091 --> 00:17:31,341
When you haven't reassessed in

645
00:17:31,791 --> 00:17:32,041
40 years. Every process is going

646
00:17:32,491 --> 00:17:32,741
to be new, uh, new for counties,

647
00:17:33,191 --> 00:17:33,441
new for property owners. It's,

648
00:17:33,891 --> 00:17:34,141
it's sort of one of those things

649
00:17:34,624 --> 00:17:34,874
where it's like everyone's gotta

650
00:17:35,324 --> 00:17:35,574
get their brain around, OK, what

651
00:17:35,991 --> 00:17:36,241
is this supposed to look like or

652
00:17:36,691 --> 00:17:36,941
what does it look like? I think

653
00:17:37,391 --> 00:17:37,641
the next, the next reassessment

654
00:17:38,591 --> 00:17:38,841
cycle should be a little bit

655
00:17:40,591 --> 00:17:40,841
easier because people know what

656
00:17:42,591 --> 00:17:42,841
to expect, right from the last

657
00:17:43,291 --> 00:17:43,541
reassessment.

658
00:17:48,224 --> 00:17:48,474
Um, another thing on

659
00:17:48,657 --> 00:17:48,907
perspective. So,

660
00:17:50,557 --> 00:17:50,807
Different areas like

661
00:17:52,491 --> 00:17:52,741
heterogeneous areas, areas that

662
00:17:54,457 --> 00:17:54,707
are rural, or maybe they're

663
00:17:56,291 --> 00:17:56,541
older. They're, they're a little

664
00:17:58,357 --> 00:17:58,607
more difficult to value versus,

665
00:18:00,324 --> 00:18:00,574
say you have a new subdivision

666
00:18:00,991 --> 00:18:01,241
in every home in the

667
00:18:02,457 --> 00:18:02,707
subdivision, you know, every 5th

668
00:18:04,224 --> 00:18:04,474
house is the same. Those are

669
00:18:04,824 --> 00:18:05,074
pretty easy to buy, right? I

670
00:18:06,457 --> 00:18:06,707
mean, um, you probably don't

671
00:18:08,191 --> 00:18:08,441
even really need to be an

672
00:18:08,757 --> 00:18:09,007
appraiser to get within the

673
00:18:10,457 --> 00:18:10,707
ballpark of what a property

674
00:18:12,324 --> 00:18:12,574
might sell for on those, but

675
00:18:14,224 --> 00:18:14,474
when you've got homes up and

676
00:18:14,824 --> 00:18:15,074
down the street that were, you

677
00:18:16,557 --> 00:18:16,807
know, maybe built 100 years ago,

678
00:18:18,557 --> 00:18:18,807
and they've been cared for in

679
00:18:19,157 --> 00:18:19,407
various.

680
00:18:22,324 --> 00:18:22,574
Ways, you know, maybe remodeled,

681
00:18:24,224 --> 00:18:24,474
not remodeled, that kind of

682
00:18:26,224 --> 00:18:26,474
thing. Your values can vary a

683
00:18:28,224 --> 00:18:28,474
lot and and those property types

684
00:18:28,924 --> 00:18:29,174
are, are pretty difficult to

685
00:18:29,491 --> 00:18:29,741
value.

686
00:18:32,324 --> 00:18:32,574
Um, conditions of homes, like I

687
00:18:34,357 --> 00:18:34,607
said, can, can vary the

688
00:18:34,824 --> 00:18:35,074
evaluation quite a bit.

689
00:18:38,391 --> 00:18:38,641
Um, you know, one thing I think

690
00:18:40,291 --> 00:18:40,541
that's important to keep in mind

691
00:18:41,024 --> 00:18:41,274
is that your current assessed

692
00:18:42,391 --> 00:18:42,641
values are a lot better than the

693
00:18:43,091 --> 00:18:43,341
ones you had before.

694
00:18:46,191 --> 00:18:46,441
So you're, you're definitely

695
00:18:46,857 --> 00:18:47,107
working in the right direction.

696
00:18:48,357 --> 00:18:48,607
Um,

697
00:18:52,357 --> 00:18:52,607
Sales ratio statistics.

698
00:18:54,524 --> 00:18:54,774
You know, I, I looked at all. I

699
00:18:56,357 --> 00:18:56,607
got the, the data from each

700
00:18:56,957 --> 00:18:57,207
county.

701
00:19:00,191 --> 00:19:00,441
And actually I thought

702
00:19:00,724 --> 00:19:00,974
everything looked really good.

703
00:19:02,424 --> 00:19:02,674
Um, I mean, yeah, you've got

704
00:19:04,324 --> 00:19:04,574
some little areas where they

705
00:19:06,491 --> 00:19:06,741
might be below IAO standards,

706
00:19:08,291 --> 00:19:08,541
but overall, you're looking

707
00:19:10,357 --> 00:19:10,607
really good and, and to find a

708
00:19:12,257 --> 00:19:12,507
jurisdiction in the country that

709
00:19:14,224 --> 00:19:14,474
didn't have a zone or a

710
00:19:16,224 --> 00:19:16,474
neighborhood or or a, um, you

711
00:19:16,924 --> 00:19:17,174
know, an area within their

712
00:19:18,357 --> 00:19:18,607
county that

713
00:19:22,257 --> 00:19:22,507
was below IAO standards, you

714
00:19:22,824 --> 00:19:23,074
know, it's, it's pretty common

715
00:19:24,491 --> 00:19:24,741
to see some areas that are maybe

716
00:19:26,224 --> 00:19:26,474
difficult to value that might

717
00:19:26,824 --> 00:19:27,074
fall a little below, um,

718
00:19:30,191 --> 00:19:30,441
Um, so that's not out of the

719
00:19:32,391 --> 00:19:32,641
norm at all, um, even for a good

720
00:19:33,091 --> 00:19:33,341
reassessment.

721
00:19:38,424 --> 00:19:38,674
OK, so I wanted to go through

722
00:19:40,424 --> 00:19:40,674
the assessment process, and I'm

723
00:19:42,524 --> 00:19:42,774
not sure, um, you know, I, I

724
00:19:44,324 --> 00:19:44,574
think you'd probably get some a

725
00:19:46,257 --> 00:19:46,507
little bit of information about

726
00:19:46,991 --> 00:19:47,241
this here and there, but.

727
00:19:50,491 --> 00:19:50,741
You know, these are, uh, kind of

728
00:19:52,424 --> 00:19:52,674
some of the steps that that

729
00:19:56,391 --> 00:19:56,641
assessors go through to get to a

730
00:20:00,224 --> 00:20:00,474
a value and certify a role. So,

731
00:20:00,924 --> 00:20:01,174
uh, one of the first things

732
00:20:02,557 --> 00:20:02,807
that's done is collecting

733
00:20:03,157 --> 00:20:03,407
property data.

734
00:20:06,391 --> 00:20:06,641
OK, so you know, if in in that

735
00:20:08,424 --> 00:20:08,674
data goes into a camera system

736
00:20:10,424 --> 00:20:10,674
generally or a computer aided

737
00:20:12,657 --> 00:20:12,907
assisted, uh, mass appraisal

738
00:20:14,457 --> 00:20:14,707
software system is where that

739
00:20:16,591 --> 00:20:16,841
data is stored, but assessors

740
00:20:18,357 --> 00:20:18,607
have to collect that data, and

741
00:20:20,224 --> 00:20:20,474
whether it's, you know, boots on

742
00:20:20,957 --> 00:20:21,207
the ground, people actually

743
00:20:22,557 --> 00:20:22,807
physically tape measure, you

744
00:20:24,457 --> 00:20:24,707
know, on the home or they're

745
00:20:26,357 --> 00:20:26,607
using some kind of technology,

746
00:20:28,491 --> 00:20:28,741
um, like an Eagle View software

747
00:20:30,524 --> 00:20:30,774
where they're looks like Google

748
00:20:32,391 --> 00:20:32,641
Earth and they're looking at

749
00:20:32,957 --> 00:20:33,207
images of different angles of

750
00:20:33,524 --> 00:20:33,774
the property and

751
00:20:36,191 --> 00:20:36,441
They can measure it using that

752
00:20:36,924 --> 00:20:37,174
software um is another option.

753
00:20:40,391 --> 00:20:40,641
So, um, the next step would be

754
00:20:42,391 --> 00:20:42,641
quality control, checks of

755
00:20:44,291 --> 00:20:44,541
property data. So you've

756
00:20:44,791 --> 00:20:45,041
collected that data, and now

757
00:20:46,291 --> 00:20:46,541
you've got a quality control

758
00:20:48,291 --> 00:20:48,541
check it, you know, did, um,

759
00:20:50,157 --> 00:20:50,407
were appraisers, when they went

760
00:20:50,824 --> 00:20:51,074
out and measured these

761
00:20:52,191 --> 00:20:52,441
properties, did they measure

762
00:20:54,224 --> 00:20:54,474
them properly? Did they list

763
00:20:54,791 --> 00:20:55,041
characteristics properly, that

764
00:20:55,491 --> 00:20:55,741
kind of thing.

765
00:20:58,457 --> 00:20:58,707
Um, next thing is sales. Sales

766
00:21:00,391 --> 00:21:00,641
are the kind of the gold, the,

767
00:21:02,391 --> 00:21:02,641
the lifeblood of, of an

768
00:21:06,191 --> 00:21:06,441
assessment or an appraisal, um,

769
00:21:06,924 --> 00:21:07,174
you know, you've got to review

770
00:21:08,324 --> 00:21:08,574
those sales, so you get

771
00:21:08,857 --> 00:21:09,107
information in that a property

772
00:21:10,557 --> 00:21:10,807
is transferred. You might

773
00:21:14,224 --> 00:21:14,474
contact a buyer or seller about

774
00:21:16,257 --> 00:21:16,507
the transaction. You're gonna

775
00:21:16,891 --> 00:21:17,141
Um, next thing is sales. Sales

776
00:21:17,491 --> 00:21:17,741
are the kind of the gold, the,

777
00:21:18,191 --> 00:21:18,441
the lifeblood of, of an

778
00:21:18,657 --> 00:21:18,907
assessment or an appraisal, um,

779
00:21:19,357 --> 00:21:19,607
you know, you've got to review

780
00:21:20,057 --> 00:21:20,307
those sales, so you get

781
00:21:20,557 --> 00:21:20,807
information in that a property

782
00:21:21,224 --> 00:21:21,474
is transferred. You might

783
00:21:21,857 --> 00:21:22,107
contact a buyer or seller about

784
00:21:22,557 --> 00:21:22,807
the transaction. You're going to

785
00:21:23,257 --> 00:21:23,507
research your transaction, go to

786
00:21:23,991 --> 00:21:24,241
the property, make sure that all

787
00:21:24,691 --> 00:21:24,941
your characteristics are

788
00:21:25,157 --> 00:21:25,407
correct, so that way when you're

789
00:21:25,891 --> 00:21:26,141
using that that transfer or that

790
00:21:26,624 --> 00:21:26,874
sale as a comparative.

791
00:21:28,457 --> 00:21:28,707
You, you know exactly what's

792
00:21:30,424 --> 00:21:30,674
sold, um, that's really

793
00:21:32,557 --> 00:21:32,807
important. Um, so you're gonna

794
00:21:34,491 --> 00:21:34,741
quality control check that sales

795
00:21:36,524 --> 00:21:36,774
data also is very important

796
00:21:38,524 --> 00:21:38,774
because if, if your sales data

797
00:21:40,457 --> 00:21:40,707
is wrong, your evaluation models

798
00:21:42,357 --> 00:21:42,607
can't be right. So that's,

799
00:21:44,357 --> 00:21:44,607
that's kind of the base, having

800
00:21:46,191 --> 00:21:46,441
good data, having good sales

801
00:21:48,324 --> 00:21:48,574
data, um, then permit data,

802
00:21:50,391 --> 00:21:50,641
that's also important. I heard,

803
00:21:52,424 --> 00:21:52,674
um, Representative Romer bring

804
00:21:54,324 --> 00:21:54,574
that up. Um, you know, having

805
00:21:54,924 --> 00:21:55,174
that permit data clues you into.

806
00:21:56,657 --> 00:21:56,907
Hey, there was a change made to

807
00:21:58,557 --> 00:21:58,807
this property. And so then an

808
00:22:00,457 --> 00:22:00,707
assessor can go out, take a look

809
00:22:02,391 --> 00:22:02,641
at the property, say, oh yeah,

810
00:22:04,324 --> 00:22:04,574
they added a deck or they added

811
00:22:06,457 --> 00:22:06,707
a new patio or a room addition,

812
00:22:07,057 --> 00:22:07,307
so they can make those

813
00:22:08,491 --> 00:22:08,741
adjustments to the record to

814
00:22:10,224 --> 00:22:10,474
make sure the value reflects

815
00:22:10,857 --> 00:22:11,107
those changes.

816
00:22:14,457 --> 00:22:14,707
Um, then after all the data is,

817
00:22:16,291 --> 00:22:16,541
is corrected and cleaned up, and

818
00:22:18,257 --> 00:22:18,507
it's been quality control

819
00:22:18,757 --> 00:22:19,007
checked, then um.

820
00:22:22,324 --> 00:22:22,574
Then you're gonna analyze the

821
00:22:24,391 --> 00:22:24,641
data. So you're, you're gonna go

822
00:22:26,324 --> 00:22:26,574
through that data and you're

823
00:22:28,224 --> 00:22:28,474
gonna say, OK, you know, these

824
00:22:30,257 --> 00:22:30,507
are, um, we're gonna group out

825
00:22:32,391 --> 00:22:32,641
single family homes in, in, in a

826
00:22:33,091 --> 00:22:33,341
certain area, and we're gonna

827
00:22:34,357 --> 00:22:34,607
group out single family homes

828
00:22:34,924 --> 00:22:35,174
in, in, in a certain area, and

829
00:22:35,624 --> 00:22:35,874
we're going to see that ranch

830
00:22:36,357 --> 00:22:36,607
homes sell for a certain amount

831
00:22:37,091 --> 00:22:37,341
or row homes sell for a certain

832
00:22:37,791 --> 00:22:38,041
amount.

833
00:22:40,224 --> 00:22:40,474
Um, we're gonna move on to

834
00:22:42,157 --> 00:22:42,407
setting evaluation models based

835
00:22:44,191 --> 00:22:44,441
on that analysis, then we're

836
00:22:46,191 --> 00:22:46,441
gonna do a sales ratio check on

837
00:22:48,224 --> 00:22:48,474
those valuation models. So we

838
00:22:50,191 --> 00:22:50,441
don't just do a sales ratio. Uh,

839
00:22:50,857 --> 00:22:51,107
a lot of people have heard, you

840
00:22:52,424 --> 00:22:52,674
know, the sales ratio, um,

841
00:22:54,457 --> 00:22:54,707
checks. We don't just do them at

842
00:22:56,357 --> 00:22:56,607
the very end, we actually do

843
00:22:58,324 --> 00:22:58,574
them during the process so that

844
00:23:00,357 --> 00:23:00,607
way we make sure our values are

845
00:23:02,157 --> 00:23:02,407
good before, before we get to

846
00:23:02,757 --> 00:23:03,007
the end and, and there's a

847
00:23:04,591 --> 00:23:04,841
problem. So, um, then you move

848
00:23:06,557 --> 00:23:06,807
on to sales ratio, uh, valuation

849
00:23:07,257 --> 00:23:07,507
model.

850
00:23:10,457 --> 00:23:10,707
after you, uh, set the models

851
00:23:12,457 --> 00:23:12,707
and then we're gonna buy

852
00:23:14,291 --> 00:23:14,541
property, right? So.

853
00:23:18,224 --> 00:23:18,474
You get the properties valued,

854
00:23:18,824 --> 00:23:19,074
you're gonna have to quality

855
00:23:20,524 --> 00:23:20,774
control check those values. So

856
00:23:22,457 --> 00:23:22,707
you, you can see in this

857
00:23:24,157 --> 00:23:24,407
process, there's a lot of

858
00:23:26,191 --> 00:23:26,441
quality control checks. Um, then

859
00:23:26,857 --> 00:23:27,107
you're gonna, after you're,

860
00:23:28,491 --> 00:23:28,741
you're sure you're OK with those

861
00:23:30,324 --> 00:23:30,574
values, you're gonna send

862
00:23:32,291 --> 00:23:32,541
valuation notices to property

863
00:23:32,891 --> 00:23:33,141
owners.

864
00:23:34,391 --> 00:23:34,641
Um, you're gonna answer this

865
00:23:36,324 --> 00:23:36,574
property owner's questions,

866
00:23:38,224 --> 00:23:38,474
You're gonna schedule informal

867
00:23:40,291 --> 00:23:40,541
appeals, conduct informal

868
00:23:40,824 --> 00:23:41,074
appeals, conduct in formal

869
00:23:44,257 --> 00:23:44,507
appeals, uh, modify the role as

870
00:23:44,924 --> 00:23:45,174
required.

871
00:23:48,457 --> 00:23:48,707
Get values adjusted, uh, certify

872
00:23:52,191 --> 00:23:52,441
a role, an assessment role, um,

873
00:23:54,157 --> 00:23:54,407
and then you're gonna handle any

874
00:23:54,857 --> 00:23:55,107
remaining appeals. There's

875
00:23:56,391 --> 00:23:56,641
always, even after you certify

876
00:23:58,457 --> 00:23:58,707
the role, there's always appeals

877
00:23:59,124 --> 00:23:59,374
after that, um.

878
00:24:04,491 --> 00:24:04,741
And um, OK, I kinda got

879
00:24:06,524 --> 00:24:06,774
backwards on this, but anyway,

880
00:24:07,191 --> 00:24:07,441
um,

881
00:24:12,291 --> 00:24:12,541
We're gonna handle the, we've

882
00:24:12,924 --> 00:24:13,174
got to handle some of these

883
00:24:13,524 --> 00:24:13,774
different appeals.

884
00:24:16,391 --> 00:24:16,641
And certify the role, and then

885
00:24:18,324 --> 00:24:18,574
we might have to modify the

886
00:24:24,391 --> 00:24:24,641
assessment role after the fact.

887
00:24:26,357 --> 00:24:26,607
So, OK, so I'm gonna go through.

888
00:24:27,024 --> 00:24:27,274
Um,

889
00:24:30,224 --> 00:24:30,474
There again, thank you again for

890
00:24:32,424 --> 00:24:32,674
the counties getting us this

891
00:24:33,024 --> 00:24:33,274
information in a short window.

892
00:24:36,157 --> 00:24:36,407
I'm gonna go through some of

893
00:24:36,857 --> 00:24:37,107
these parcel breakdowns.

894
00:24:40,224 --> 00:24:40,474
And I'm sure you all have seen

895
00:24:42,191 --> 00:24:42,441
some of these numbers already.

896
00:24:44,224 --> 00:24:44,474
Um, so first off, I've got over

897
00:24:44,857 --> 00:24:45,107
on that column, I've got the

898
00:24:46,491 --> 00:24:46,741
counties and the percentage

899
00:24:48,224 --> 00:24:48,474
change for each county.

900
00:24:50,424 --> 00:24:50,674
Or the percent of the total

901
00:24:52,324 --> 00:24:52,574
parcel count. So this is parcel

902
00:24:54,224 --> 00:24:54,474
count breakdown. So we've got

903
00:24:54,824 --> 00:24:55,074
residential, commercial,

904
00:24:56,557 --> 00:24:56,807
industrial, agricultural, exempt

905
00:25:00,224 --> 00:25:00,474
utility, and then the totals. So

906
00:25:00,891 --> 00:25:01,141
for New Castle County, we had

907
00:25:04,391 --> 00:25:04,641
219,000 parcels. Sussex, we had

908
00:25:08,324 --> 00:25:08,574
203,000 parcels in Kent, we had

909
00:25:12,257 --> 00:25:12,507
90,000 parcels. Um, so total

910
00:25:14,224 --> 00:25:14,474
statewide parcel count was

911
00:25:16,557 --> 00:25:16,807
513,000 parcels. You can see if

912
00:25:18,224 --> 00:25:18,474
you look over on the

913
00:25:18,657 --> 00:25:18,907
residential, uh.

914
00:25:20,491 --> 00:25:20,741
Column, I've kind of totaled up

915
00:25:22,391 --> 00:25:22,641
so you can see, you know, what

916
00:25:26,291 --> 00:25:26,541
makes up, um, parcel counts for

917
00:25:28,424 --> 00:25:28,674
residential, about 90% of the

918
00:25:30,224 --> 00:25:30,474
parcels in the state are

919
00:25:30,724 --> 00:25:30,974
residential in nature,

920
00:25:34,257 --> 00:25:34,507
commercial, can I, can I, can I

921
00:25:34,891 --> 00:25:35,141
ask a question right there?

922
00:25:36,491 --> 00:25:36,741
Yeah, the agriculture and

923
00:25:38,357 --> 00:25:38,607
residential columns, the

924
00:25:40,257 --> 00:25:40,507
agriculture are just

925
00:25:42,291 --> 00:25:42,541
agricultural improvements? Do

926
00:25:44,157 --> 00:25:44,407
they include or not include the

927
00:25:44,857 --> 00:25:45,107
homestead of an agricultural

928
00:25:45,457 --> 00:25:45,707
property.

929
00:25:50,224 --> 00:25:50,474
I don't have that information to

930
00:25:50,924 --> 00:25:51,174
I don't have that

931
00:25:51,291 --> 00:25:51,541
information. I'll have to ask

932
00:25:51,891 --> 00:25:52,141
the county. They do not include

933
00:25:54,191 --> 00:25:54,441
the houses. OK, they do not. So

934
00:25:54,924 --> 00:25:55,174
the homestead is counted as

935
00:25:56,457 --> 00:25:56,707
as residential and then the

936
00:26:00,191 --> 00:26:00,441
agricultural improvements are

937
00:26:02,224 --> 00:26:02,474
counted as agriculture here. OK,

938
00:26:02,924 --> 00:26:03,174
that's,

939
00:26:04,357 --> 00:26:04,607
so I figured you're not have

940
00:26:04,924 --> 00:26:05,174
that info.

941
00:26:05,191 --> 00:26:05,441
I don't have that information.

942
00:26:05,891 --> 00:26:06,141
I'll have to ask the county.

943
00:26:06,491 --> 00:26:06,741
They do not include the houses.

944
00:26:07,157 --> 00:26:07,407
OK, they do not. So the

945
00:26:07,624 --> 00:26:07,874
homestead is counted as as

946
00:26:08,224 --> 00:26:08,474
residential and then the

947
00:26:08,824 --> 00:26:09,074
agricultural improvements are

948
00:26:09,391 --> 00:26:09,641
counted as agriculture here. OK,

949
00:26:10,091 --> 00:26:10,341
that's, so I figured you'd have

950
00:26:10,791 --> 00:26:11,041
that in front. I figured you'd

951
00:26:11,457 --> 00:26:11,707
have it.

952
00:26:11,707 --> 00:26:11,957
Good question. Good question.

953
00:26:12,291 --> 00:26:12,541
All right, um, and then you can

954
00:26:12,924 --> 00:26:13,174
see, you know, we've got

955
00:26:16,391 --> 00:26:16,641
agriculture at 2.5% of the state

956
00:26:18,524 --> 00:26:18,774
total and exempt at 4.1%,

957
00:26:20,424 --> 00:26:20,674
utilities at 0.2%.

958
00:26:24,357 --> 00:26:24,607
So just kind of an interesting

959
00:26:26,324 --> 00:26:26,574
just showing the breakdown of,

960
00:26:28,191 --> 00:26:28,441
of, and that's his parcel count,

961
00:26:30,224 --> 00:26:30,474
so that, that's not necessarily

962
00:26:32,357 --> 00:26:32,607
reflective of, of, say, you

963
00:26:34,291 --> 00:26:34,541
know, tax where the taxes are

964
00:26:38,257 --> 00:26:38,507
being paid, it's just the, the

965
00:26:38,924 --> 00:26:39,174
number of parcels is all. So,

966
00:26:42,224 --> 00:26:42,474
um, taxable assessed value, and

967
00:26:42,957 --> 00:26:43,207
I'm sure some of you have seen

968
00:26:44,424 --> 00:26:44,674
some of these numbers before

969
00:26:48,224 --> 00:26:48,474
also. So we asked the counties

970
00:26:48,824 --> 00:26:49,074
for the, the prior assessed

971
00:26:50,591 --> 00:26:50,841
values before they reassessed,

972
00:26:52,624 --> 00:26:52,874
And you can see those numbers

973
00:26:53,224 --> 00:26:53,474
there on that 2nd column.

974
00:26:56,524 --> 00:26:56,774
And then the 3rd column over or

975
00:26:58,257 --> 00:26:58,507
And then the 3rd column over are

976
00:26:58,957 --> 00:26:59,207
the the current assessed values,

977
00:27:00,457 --> 00:27:00,707
so you can see what those are.

978
00:27:04,324 --> 00:27:04,574
Um, I've got the change amount

979
00:27:06,157 --> 00:27:06,407
in there and the change percent,

980
00:27:06,791 --> 00:27:07,041
which I know a lot of people get

981
00:27:08,491 --> 00:27:08,741
caught up on that change

982
00:27:10,324 --> 00:27:10,574
percent, but, you know, you

983
00:27:14,257 --> 00:27:14,507
haven't re revalued in in 4 or 5

984
00:27:16,491 --> 00:27:16,741
decades, so, um, you know, milks

985
00:27:18,524 --> 00:27:18,774
went up, the price of a new cars

986
00:27:20,424 --> 00:27:20,674
went up. Everything's went up,

987
00:27:21,091 --> 00:27:21,341
you know.

988
00:27:26,391 --> 00:27:26,641
500+% probably so, um, so these

989
00:27:28,357 --> 00:27:28,607
numbers also, one thing to keep

990
00:27:29,057 --> 00:27:29,307
in mind, these numbers would

991
00:27:30,324 --> 00:27:30,574
include things like new

992
00:27:32,324 --> 00:27:32,574
construction or additions and

993
00:27:34,224 --> 00:27:34,474
and that kind of thing too, so,

994
00:27:36,291 --> 00:27:36,541
and I don't have breakdowns on

995
00:27:38,357 --> 00:27:38,607
on all of that, but, um, just

996
00:27:39,024 --> 00:27:39,274
something to remember.

997
00:27:44,357 --> 00:27:44,607
OK, so staffing levels, another

998
00:27:46,224 --> 00:27:46,474
question we'd ask the counties,

999
00:27:50,291 --> 00:27:50,541
Uh, Newcastle currently has 21,

1000
00:27:52,391 --> 00:27:52,641
uh, full-time equivalent staff

1001
00:27:54,191 --> 00:27:54,441
in their assessment department.

1002
00:27:54,857 --> 00:27:55,107
Now, they've got open positions

1003
00:27:56,657 --> 00:27:56,907
for 29, but they have 8

1004
00:27:58,324 --> 00:27:58,574
vacancies. Um, I'm

1005
00:28:00,491 --> 00:28:00,741
You know, I'm guessing it's hard

1006
00:28:02,524 --> 00:28:02,774
to recruit assessors in a state

1007
00:28:04,557 --> 00:28:04,807
where reassessment hasn't

1008
00:28:05,124 --> 00:28:05,374
happened in a long time.

1009
00:28:08,491 --> 00:28:08,741
And, um, and so I, I think

1010
00:28:10,457 --> 00:28:10,707
there's probably some challenges

1011
00:28:11,157 --> 00:28:11,407
there, um.

1012
00:28:14,424 --> 00:28:14,674
Sounds like an easy job to me,

1013
00:28:15,091 --> 00:28:15,341
yeah.

1014
00:28:16,291 --> 00:28:16,541
Um,

1015
00:28:18,491 --> 00:28:18,741
Well, just, just the fact that,

1016
00:28:20,191 --> 00:28:20,441
you know, when you haven't done

1017
00:28:20,857 --> 00:28:21,107
them, why would you have, you

1018
00:28:22,524 --> 00:28:22,774
know, a lot of assessors, so,

1019
00:28:23,224 --> 00:28:23,474
um, it.

1020
00:28:26,457 --> 00:28:26,707
And then Sussex at 18, Ken at

1021
00:28:27,024 --> 00:28:27,274
11, so.

1022
00:28:30,191 --> 00:28:30,441
In the state currently, it looks

1023
00:28:32,324 --> 00:28:32,574
like you've got 59 assessors on

1024
00:28:33,024 --> 00:28:33,274
on staff at the counties.

1025
00:28:36,524 --> 00:28:36,774
OK. Um,

1026
00:28:40,524 --> 00:28:40,774
So just a little ratio here of

1027
00:28:44,357 --> 00:28:44,607
parcels. This is one way that um

1028
00:28:46,257 --> 00:28:46,507
assessors look at kind of

1029
00:28:46,857 --> 00:28:47,107
staffing ratios and that kind of

1030
00:28:50,391 --> 00:28:50,641
thing. It's a parcels per uh

1031
00:28:52,224 --> 00:28:52,474
full-time equivalent staff

1032
00:28:54,591 --> 00:28:54,841
position at the county. Um, and,

1033
00:28:56,357 --> 00:28:56,607
you know, it's, this is.

1034
00:29:00,191 --> 00:29:00,441
This is something that it's,

1035
00:29:02,291 --> 00:29:02,541
it's hard to look at sometimes

1036
00:29:04,224 --> 00:29:04,474
from state to state and

1037
00:29:06,424 --> 00:29:06,674
county to county because you

1038
00:29:08,524 --> 00:29:08,774
have to think about what, what

1039
00:29:10,557 --> 00:29:10,807
kind of scope the county staff

1040
00:29:12,391 --> 00:29:12,641
is covering, um, you know, how

1041
00:29:14,391 --> 00:29:14,641
much do they, do they contract

1042
00:29:16,257 --> 00:29:16,507
out? How much do they do

1043
00:29:18,524 --> 00:29:18,774
in-house? Um, what kind of, you

1044
00:29:22,224 --> 00:29:22,474
know, are they having to um come

1045
00:29:22,957 --> 00:29:23,207
up with new parcel numbers? Are

1046
00:29:24,491 --> 00:29:24,741
they having any big projects

1047
00:29:26,224 --> 00:29:26,474
that they're having to work on

1048
00:29:26,857 --> 00:29:27,107
to kind of, um, improve.

1049
00:29:28,424 --> 00:29:28,674
assessments and that kind of

1050
00:29:30,424 --> 00:29:30,674
thing. So a lot of that kind of

1051
00:29:32,257 --> 00:29:32,507
thing, growth rate can really

1052
00:29:34,324 --> 00:29:34,574
matter in staffing ratios. So,

1053
00:29:36,391 --> 00:29:36,641
um, they're here. I don't know,

1054
00:29:38,357 --> 00:29:38,607
without a lot of context, it's,

1055
00:29:40,424 --> 00:29:40,674
it's kind of hard to tell, you

1056
00:29:42,224 --> 00:29:42,474
know, whether they're right or

1057
00:29:42,857 --> 00:29:43,107
wrong or, or anything else, so.

1058
00:29:46,357 --> 00:29:46,607
All right, assessment budgets.

1059
00:29:50,391 --> 00:29:50,641
So prior to reassessment, um,

1060
00:29:52,524 --> 00:29:52,774
or, you know, and, and this is

1061
00:29:54,457 --> 00:29:54,707
part of this is, you know, we

1062
00:29:56,291 --> 00:29:56,541
ask questions, the counties

1063
00:29:56,924 --> 00:29:57,174
might have interpreted some of

1064
00:29:58,324 --> 00:29:58,574
the answers differently, so

1065
00:29:58,957 --> 00:29:59,207
hopefully, we're not

1066
00:30:00,424 --> 00:30:00,674
misrepresenting anything. Um,

1067
00:30:04,357 --> 00:30:04,607
Newcastle prior budget 2.9

1068
00:30:08,291 --> 00:30:08,541
million, um, which might be 2025

1069
00:30:10,424 --> 00:30:10,674
budget is my guess. Uh, 2026

1070
00:30:12,724 --> 00:30:12,974
budget was 3 million, um,

1071
00:30:13,224 --> 00:30:13,474
average.

1072
00:30:16,424 --> 00:30:16,674
You know, cost per parcel about

1073
00:30:20,291 --> 00:30:20,541
$14. And then we asked also for

1074
00:30:22,257 --> 00:30:22,507
the vendor costs, so this is

1075
00:30:22,824 --> 00:30:23,074
what they would have paid Tyler,

1076
00:30:24,557 --> 00:30:24,807
um, and you can see what those

1077
00:30:25,257 --> 00:30:25,507
are there.

1078
00:30:30,457 --> 00:30:30,707
You know, 19, 9.6 million, 4.4

1079
00:30:32,324 --> 00:30:32,574
million, so you can see what

1080
00:30:34,391 --> 00:30:34,641
that total was to Tyler for the

1081
00:30:36,557 --> 00:30:36,807
reassessment. I know, um, and I

1082
00:30:38,524 --> 00:30:38,774
don't have a ton of details on

1083
00:30:40,424 --> 00:30:40,674
all the counties, but I know

1084
00:30:42,224 --> 00:30:42,474
like Newcastle, for instance,

1085
00:30:46,257 --> 00:30:46,507
had, um, had to go through and,

1086
00:30:48,191 --> 00:30:48,441
um change the way that they

1087
00:30:50,324 --> 00:30:50,574
identified parcels, and I'm sure

1088
00:30:52,357 --> 00:30:52,607
that added to the cost quite a

1089
00:30:54,224 --> 00:30:54,474
bit. That's typically a, a very

1090
00:30:56,291 --> 00:30:56,541
large project, um, and I'm sure

1091
00:30:56,991 --> 00:30:57,241
all the counties.

1092
00:30:58,457 --> 00:30:58,707
had their own challenges and

1093
00:31:00,357 --> 00:31:00,607
projects. So, trying to, there

1094
00:31:02,224 --> 00:31:02,474
again, trying to compare the

1095
00:31:02,891 --> 00:31:03,141
counties against each other head

1096
00:31:04,424 --> 00:31:04,674
to head is a little difficult

1097
00:31:06,191 --> 00:31:06,441
because they all have their own

1098
00:31:06,924 --> 00:31:07,174
unique challenges. Excuse me,

1099
00:31:08,291 --> 00:31:08,541
Justin. Yeah,

1100
00:31:10,291 --> 00:31:10,541
uh, Dave Del Grande, New Castle

1101
00:31:10,924 --> 00:31:11,174
County, just for, for the

1102
00:31:14,257 --> 00:31:14,507
record, our 27 approved budget,

1103
00:31:16,191 --> 00:31:16,441
which was effective July 1st,

1104
00:31:18,391 --> 00:31:18,641
we're at $4.2 million for our

1105
00:31:19,091 --> 00:31:19,341
assessment office.

1106
00:31:22,191 --> 00:31:22,441
Which increased to 10 positions.

1107
00:31:22,857 --> 00:31:23,107
So I just want to let everyone

1108
00:31:23,457 --> 00:31:23,707
know that.

1109
00:31:26,357 --> 00:31:26,607
So we, we added about $1.2

1110
00:31:28,224 --> 00:31:28,474
million from 26 to 27.

1111
00:31:32,191 --> 00:31:32,441
Yeah, and I appreciate that, and

1112
00:31:34,224 --> 00:31:34,474
the county had provided me that

1113
00:31:34,924 --> 00:31:35,174
information.

1114
00:31:36,324 --> 00:31:36,574
So thank you,

1115
00:31:38,324 --> 00:31:38,574
thank you. I'm sorry, another

1116
00:31:40,191 --> 00:31:40,441
real quick on that slide, uh,

1117
00:31:40,857 --> 00:31:41,107
So thank you, thank you. I'm

1118
00:31:41,457 --> 00:31:41,707
sorry, another real quick on

1119
00:31:42,057 --> 00:31:42,307
that slide for everybody's

1120
00:31:42,657 --> 00:31:42,907
information.

1121
00:31:44,457 --> 00:31:44,707
New Castle County is going to

1122
00:31:46,357 --> 00:31:46,607
have a higher vendor cost per

1123
00:31:46,957 --> 00:31:47,207
parcel.

1124
00:31:48,491 --> 00:31:48,741
Because of the size, one reason

1125
00:31:50,324 --> 00:31:50,574
would be the size of the

1126
00:31:52,257 --> 00:31:52,507
commercial properties in New

1127
00:31:52,891 --> 00:31:53,141
Castle County and there's

1128
00:31:54,457 --> 00:31:54,707
nothing in Kent and Sussex that

1129
00:31:56,324 --> 00:31:56,574
even comes close to some of the

1130
00:31:58,257 --> 00:31:58,507
size commercial properties

1131
00:32:00,224 --> 00:32:00,474
outside of like Dover Downs. Um,

1132
00:32:02,224 --> 00:32:02,474
and so those parcels, you know,

1133
00:32:04,591 --> 00:32:04,841
the big Amazon plants, uh, big

1134
00:32:06,457 --> 00:32:06,707
colleges, that kind of, they're

1135
00:32:08,324 --> 00:32:08,574
going to have, it's gonna be a

1136
00:32:10,524 --> 00:32:10,774
higher cost per parcel, uh, just

1137
00:32:11,157 --> 00:32:11,407
in New Castle County versus the

1138
00:32:12,357 --> 00:32:12,607
other, other counties.

1139
00:32:14,357 --> 00:32:14,607
just so uh just sort of a

1140
00:32:16,491 --> 00:32:16,741
related question, does anyone

1141
00:32:17,157 --> 00:32:17,407
know if that

1142
00:32:20,191 --> 00:32:20,441
The gap, if you will, or the

1143
00:32:20,757 --> 00:32:21,007
ratio

1144
00:32:22,457 --> 00:32:22,707
of basically Newcastle being

1145
00:32:23,057 --> 00:32:23,307
about

1146
00:32:26,457 --> 00:32:26,707
Roughly twice per parcel from

1147
00:32:28,357 --> 00:32:28,607
the vendors and the others,

1148
00:32:30,257 --> 00:32:30,507
whether that's justified by the

1149
00:32:34,291 --> 00:32:34,541
The difference in the size of

1150
00:32:34,924 --> 00:32:35,174
some commercial properties. I

1151
00:32:36,424 --> 00:32:36,674
I would guess part of it is the

1152
00:32:37,057 --> 00:32:37,307
size of some commercial

1153
00:32:37,524 --> 00:32:37,774
properties. I, I would guess

1154
00:32:38,124 --> 00:32:38,374
part of it is, is the difference

1155
00:32:38,891 --> 00:32:39,141
in size and complexity of those

1156
00:32:40,357 --> 00:32:40,607
properties. It's a lot easier

1157
00:32:41,024 --> 00:32:41,274
to, to.

1158
00:32:42,391 --> 00:32:42,641
You know, uh, assess.

1159
00:32:46,224 --> 00:32:46,474
A housing development that just

1160
00:32:46,857 --> 00:32:47,107
went up in Sussex County versus

1161
00:32:48,457 --> 00:32:48,707
a housing development that's

1162
00:32:50,291 --> 00:32:50,541
over 100 years old in New Castle

1163
00:32:52,457 --> 00:32:52,707
County versus the big box plants

1164
00:32:54,357 --> 00:32:54,607
versus the big industrial sites

1165
00:32:55,057 --> 00:32:55,307
that are found in New Castle

1166
00:32:56,491 --> 00:32:56,741
County, but the other problem is

1167
00:32:58,324 --> 00:32:58,574
they also had to change,

1168
00:33:00,224 --> 00:33:00,474
they had to make some pretty big

1169
00:33:02,357 --> 00:33:02,607
vendor changes uh with the way

1170
00:33:02,991 --> 00:33:03,241
they were analyzing the

1171
00:33:04,457 --> 00:33:04,707
properties in New Castle County

1172
00:33:06,391 --> 00:33:06,641
that weren't acquiring Sussex

1173
00:33:08,357 --> 00:33:08,607
County, I believe. Yeah, John,

1174
00:33:09,057 --> 00:33:09,307
you can correct me on that.

1175
00:33:12,191 --> 00:33:12,441
I guess the hope is though that

1176
00:33:12,824 --> 00:33:13,074
going forward, that the vendor

1177
00:33:16,224 --> 00:33:16,474
cost per parcel, in particular

1178
00:33:18,324 --> 00:33:18,574
New Castle County comes down now

1179
00:33:18,991 --> 00:33:19,241
that we have a better handle on

1180
00:33:20,457 --> 00:33:20,707
what we're doing or that might

1181
00:33:22,457 --> 00:33:22,707
be something that this group

1182
00:33:24,191 --> 00:33:24,441
needs to tackle. Yeah, Senator

1183
00:33:24,791 --> 00:33:25,041
Buxton, and then David. I'm

1184
00:33:26,457 --> 00:33:26,707
sorry, before we go on, if John,

1185
00:33:28,491 --> 00:33:28,741
is that what I just said is, is

1186
00:33:30,457 --> 00:33:30,707
that I'm sorry, Justin, Justin,

1187
00:33:32,424 --> 00:33:32,674
excuse me, John Justin begins

1188
00:33:34,391 --> 00:33:34,641
with a J. Uh, Justin, is, is

1189
00:33:34,991 --> 00:33:35,241
that.

1190
00:33:36,491 --> 00:33:36,741
Everything I just said was that,

1191
00:33:38,457 --> 00:33:38,707
at least in part your impression

1192
00:33:39,191 --> 00:33:39,441
as well?

1193
00:33:42,224 --> 00:33:42,474
Yeah, yeah, I think so.

1194
00:33:42,724 --> 00:33:42,974
That sounds reasonable.

1195
00:33:46,457 --> 00:33:46,707
Um, OK. Oh, actually we have a

1196
00:33:48,424 --> 00:33:48,674
couple more, um, questions, uh,

1197
00:33:50,257 --> 00:33:50,507
Senator Buxton and then David.

1198
00:33:50,857 --> 00:33:51,107
So

1199
00:33:56,291 --> 00:33:56,541
that, so the vendor cost, that's

1200
00:33:58,357 --> 00:33:58,607
reflective of this next

1201
00:34:00,224 --> 00:34:00,474
reassessment, or is that

1202
00:34:00,757 --> 00:34:01,007
reflective of the prior one?

1203
00:34:04,257 --> 00:34:04,507
Good answer, and that's what he

1204
00:34:04,891 --> 00:34:05,141
said, um.

1205
00:34:10,257 --> 00:34:10,507
And then just explain in the

1206
00:34:10,824 --> 00:34:11,074
average annual cost per parcel.

1207
00:34:14,424 --> 00:34:14,674
Uh, the $10 greater for king.

1208
00:34:18,224 --> 00:34:18,474
What's the uniqueness of Kent?

1209
00:34:18,924 --> 00:34:19,174
It's the way we budget because

1210
00:34:20,424 --> 00:34:20,674
we put indirects into our call

1211
00:34:22,357 --> 00:34:22,607
centers and neither one of the

1212
00:34:24,324 --> 00:34:24,574
other counties do. If I took

1213
00:34:26,191 --> 00:34:26,441
that out, it would reduce it

1214
00:34:28,324 --> 00:34:28,574
probably to about $15 a parcel.

1215
00:34:30,424 --> 00:34:30,674
Would that say that again? You

1216
00:34:31,024 --> 00:34:31,274
did what? And that was, I'm

1217
00:34:32,457 --> 00:34:32,707
sorry. Sorry, I couldn't hear

1218
00:34:34,191 --> 00:34:34,441
you. We, Kent county budgets

1219
00:34:34,824 --> 00:34:35,074
differently than the other two

1220
00:34:36,557 --> 00:34:36,807
counties which include what we

1221
00:34:38,424 --> 00:34:38,674
call indirect costs where you

1222
00:34:40,357 --> 00:34:40,607
absorb the cost of the

1223
00:34:42,457 --> 00:34:42,707
supporting departments like IT

1224
00:34:44,624 --> 00:34:44,874
and everything. So if I pull

1225
00:34:45,191 --> 00:34:45,441
that out.

1226
00:34:48,457 --> 00:34:48,707
We would be more relative to how

1227
00:34:50,257 --> 00:34:50,507
the others budget like an

1228
00:34:52,224 --> 00:34:52,474
accounting difference, OK, OK.

1229
00:34:54,324 --> 00:34:54,574
She's very tight.

1230
00:34:54,724 --> 00:34:54,974
No, I mean, that's actually a

1231
00:34:56,424 --> 00:34:56,674
really smart way. I, I think

1232
00:34:58,257 --> 00:34:58,507
it's a, it's a more

1233
00:35:00,224 --> 00:35:00,474
comprehensive way. There's a

1234
00:35:00,824 --> 00:35:01,074
cost of doing business

1235
00:35:02,224 --> 00:35:02,474
The commissioner is in control

1236
00:35:02,857 --> 00:35:03,107
Yeah,

1237
00:35:04,357 --> 00:35:04,607
As the best you can. I want one

1238
00:35:05,024 --> 00:35:05,274
more, sorry, one more, um.

1239
00:35:06,257 --> 00:35:06,507
Question.

1240
00:35:08,424 --> 00:35:08,674
The increase in the number of

1241
00:35:09,124 --> 00:35:09,374
positions.

1242
00:35:12,257 --> 00:35:12,507
Is that reflective of the

1243
00:35:14,357 --> 00:35:14,607
The requirement now to.

1244
00:35:16,457 --> 00:35:16,707
Reassess every 5 years and would

1245
00:35:18,391 --> 00:35:18,641
it change if it was every 7 or

1246
00:35:20,324 --> 00:35:20,574
10 or it wouldn't matter. It is

1247
00:35:22,324 --> 00:35:22,574
what it is right now, it's to

1248
00:35:24,157 --> 00:35:24,407
get us up to speed on the

1249
00:35:26,157 --> 00:35:26,407
current process. So, um, we

1250
00:35:26,791 --> 00:35:27,041
could even use more, but we

1251
00:35:28,424 --> 00:35:28,674
didn't feel budgetary-wise, we

1252
00:35:30,424 --> 00:35:30,674
could actually add 25 more

1253
00:35:32,257 --> 00:35:32,507
hire that many more people.

1254
00:35:34,491 --> 00:35:34,741
Um, Justin, I'm not sure what

1255
00:35:36,491 --> 00:35:36,741
the industry averages per, you

1256
00:35:38,591 --> 00:35:38,841
know, parcel per employee, but I

1257
00:35:39,291 --> 00:35:39,541
think if we're.

1258
00:35:42,357 --> 00:35:42,607
10,000 or 11,000 per employee.

1259
00:35:46,324 --> 00:35:46,574
I heard the number was 2500. I

1260
00:35:47,024 --> 00:35:47,274
don't know if that's true or

1261
00:35:47,624 --> 00:35:47,874
not, but um.

1262
00:35:50,157 --> 00:35:50,407
Uh, we're, we're a little bit

1263
00:35:52,224 --> 00:35:52,474
off on the number of people we

1264
00:35:54,224 --> 00:35:54,474
need, not to mention where you

1265
00:35:54,824 --> 00:35:55,074
put them, buying them equipment,

1266
00:35:56,391 --> 00:35:56,641
um, and then the taxpayer

1267
00:35:56,957 --> 00:35:57,207
expense to do all that.

1268
00:35:58,524 --> 00:35:58,774
Is a, is a concern of ours.

1269
00:36:02,391 --> 00:36:02,641
Justin, can you speak to that

1270
00:36:04,357 --> 00:36:04,607
what the national averages are

1271
00:36:06,191 --> 00:36:06,441
for uh

1272
00:36:06,441 --> 00:36:06,691
ratio.

1273
00:36:10,191 --> 00:36:10,441
Um, it, it, it depends on

1274
00:36:12,324 --> 00:36:12,574
reappraisal frequency, how much,

1275
00:36:14,357 --> 00:36:14,607
you know, how much the county's

1276
00:36:16,224 --> 00:36:16,474
contracting out versus doing

1277
00:36:18,224 --> 00:36:18,474
in-house, uh, as far as those

1278
00:36:18,824 --> 00:36:19,074
ratios go. So like I said, it

1279
00:36:22,224 --> 00:36:22,474
can vary quite a bit. If, if the

1280
00:36:22,924 --> 00:36:23,174
county was doing 100% of the

1281
00:36:26,224 --> 00:36:26,474
work in-house. I would think you

1282
00:36:28,357 --> 00:36:28,607
would want to be in the 2500 to

1283
00:36:32,224 --> 00:36:32,474
3500 parcels per staff range.

1284
00:36:34,424 --> 00:36:34,674
um, you know, the more you

1285
00:36:35,024 --> 00:36:35,274
contract out, that number could

1286
00:36:38,391 --> 00:36:38,641
shift up, um, some. So.

1287
00:36:42,324 --> 00:36:42,574
Question. Yes, Susan. Oh, sure.

1288
00:36:44,357 --> 00:36:44,607
So, when your vendor calls for

1289
00:36:45,057 --> 00:36:45,307
reassessment, did that, because

1290
00:36:46,391 --> 00:36:46,641
you had a different package than

1291
00:36:48,557 --> 00:36:48,807
we did. It included converting

1292
00:36:50,457 --> 00:36:50,707
the software going with their

1293
00:36:52,357 --> 00:36:52,607
stuff. Did that include? That's

1294
00:36:52,991 --> 00:36:53,241
what all that in there? Correct.

1295
00:36:54,324 --> 00:36:54,574
That's what I was getting to.

1296
00:36:56,391 --> 00:36:56,641
This is our all-in cost as of

1297
00:36:58,391 --> 00:36:58,641
today or at last week for the

1298
00:37:00,191 --> 00:37:00,441
cost of reassessment, which

1299
00:37:02,224 --> 00:37:02,474
includes our legal fees, costs

1300
00:37:04,257 --> 00:37:04,507
of appeals, all those things.

1301
00:37:06,724 --> 00:37:06,974
So, um, just the cost of the

1302
00:37:08,391 --> 00:37:08,641
Bet Tyler alone, I think

1303
00:37:08,991 --> 00:37:09,241
initially was like around 17.

1304
00:37:12,457 --> 00:37:12,707
million which includes includes

1305
00:37:14,224 --> 00:37:14,474
the software. See that would

1306
00:37:14,857 --> 00:37:15,107
need to be taken out to compare.

1307
00:37:16,457 --> 00:37:16,707
That's what I was wondering

1308
00:37:18,324 --> 00:37:18,574
Yes, so

1309
00:37:20,324 --> 00:37:20,574
software not gonna be an issue

1310
00:37:22,224 --> 00:37:22,474
next? How much was the software

1311
00:37:22,924 --> 00:37:23,174
pieces I believe I don't have it

1312
00:37:23,657 --> 00:37:23,907
directly in front of me. I

1313
00:37:24,524 --> 00:37:24,774
believe it was around $3

1314
00:37:25,091 --> 00:37:25,341
million. And then there's the

1315
00:37:26,624 --> 00:37:26,874
annual maintenance fee that goes

1316
00:37:28,357 --> 00:37:28,607
with that and so forth.

1317
00:37:30,491 --> 00:37:30,741
Have you heard, I know that um

1318
00:37:32,491 --> 00:37:32,741
Kent and Sussex are in the RFP

1319
00:37:33,157 --> 00:37:33,407
process right now. I

1320
00:37:36,357 --> 00:37:36,607
I could be wrong, but I feel

1321
00:37:38,324 --> 00:37:38,574
like I remember in the hearings

1322
00:37:40,491 --> 00:37:40,741
that we had, um, about this time

1323
00:37:41,191 --> 00:37:41,441
last year.

1324
00:37:44,257 --> 00:37:44,507
I feel like I remember Tyler

1325
00:37:46,191 --> 00:37:46,441
saying something about $62 a

1326
00:37:46,824 --> 00:37:47,074
parcel. Is that?

1327
00:37:47,257 --> 00:37:47,507
Uh

1328
00:37:50,324 --> 00:37:50,574
Yeah, so they gave me a

1329
00:37:50,824 --> 00:37:51,074
preliminary number. I think it

1330
00:37:54,191 --> 00:37:54,441
was $65 a part $65 I mean

1331
00:37:54,724 --> 00:37:54,974
because we've done the initial,

1332
00:37:56,424 --> 00:37:56,674
right, they said the prices that

1333
00:37:57,124 --> 00:37:57,374
they're bidding currently was

1334
00:38:00,257 --> 00:38:00,507
$65 a parcel, and that was even

1335
00:38:02,324 --> 00:38:02,574
just a desktop review when we

1336
00:38:04,324 --> 00:38:04,574
went out to bid in 2021, those

1337
00:38:06,357 --> 00:38:06,607
were the prices, but they had

1338
00:38:08,691 --> 00:38:08,941
skyrocketed, so we'll know this

1339
00:38:09,391 --> 00:38:09,641
week,

1340
00:38:09,641 --> 00:38:09,891
right,

1341
00:38:10,457 --> 00:38:10,707
they said the prices that

1342
00:38:11,024 --> 00:38:11,274
they're bidding currently was

1343
00:38:11,724 --> 00:38:11,974
$65 a parcel and that was even

1344
00:38:12,424 --> 00:38:12,674
just a desktop review when we

1345
00:38:13,091 --> 00:38:13,341
went out to bid in 2021, those

1346
00:38:13,724 --> 00:38:13,974
were the prices, but they had

1347
00:38:14,324 --> 00:38:14,574
skyrocketed, so we'll know this

1348
00:38:14,991 --> 00:38:15,241
week,

1349
00:38:15,241 --> 00:38:15,491
this week,

1350
00:38:15,491 --> 00:38:15,741
what those per parcel numbers

1351
00:38:16,091 --> 00:38:16,341
were are gonna be, but yeah,

1352
00:38:16,724 --> 00:38:16,974
they're not gonna be

1353
00:38:17,191 --> 00:38:17,441
here

1354
00:38:18,391 --> 00:38:18,641
um and I just wanna ask one.

1355
00:38:20,491 --> 00:38:20,741
Oh, you go ahead, go first,

1356
00:38:22,357 --> 00:38:22,607
Senator Buxton. No, no, no, no,

1357
00:38:24,224 --> 00:38:24,474
I didn't want to cut off anybody

1358
00:38:24,957 --> 00:38:25,207
else, but I just, when you're

1359
00:38:26,257 --> 00:38:26,507
done, I'll have one more

1360
00:38:26,824 --> 00:38:27,074
question.

1361
00:38:28,224 --> 00:38:28,474
I was just thinking, I don't

1362
00:38:30,224 --> 00:38:30,474
know what the outcomes of this,

1363
00:38:30,924 --> 00:38:31,174
uh, working group are gonna be,

1364
00:38:32,424 --> 00:38:32,674
but one thing we have talked

1365
00:38:34,224 --> 00:38:34,474
about a little bit and just I'll

1366
00:38:36,457 --> 00:38:36,707
get to it way later on is are

1367
00:38:38,357 --> 00:38:38,607
there cost savings in going

1368
00:38:38,924 --> 00:38:39,174
under a state contract, and I'm

1369
00:38:40,691 --> 00:38:40,941
just wondering what is your

1370
00:38:42,357 --> 00:38:42,607
timeline if you're already

1371
00:38:42,957 --> 00:38:43,207
starting the RFP process, what

1372
00:38:44,457 --> 00:38:44,707
is your timeline, which is why

1373
00:38:46,291 --> 00:38:46,541
we started this group so

1374
00:38:48,424 --> 00:38:48,674
aggressively time-wise, um, and

1375
00:38:49,124 --> 00:38:49,374
only made it a 6 month group.

1376
00:38:50,491 --> 00:38:50,741
What is your time like what is

1377
00:38:52,357 --> 00:38:52,607
your timeline on signing that

1378
00:38:52,957 --> 00:38:53,207
contract and.

1379
00:38:54,557 --> 00:38:54,807
Do we have the ability to

1380
00:38:55,124 --> 00:38:55,374
potentially

1381
00:38:58,324 --> 00:38:58,574
Have for this assessment, some

1382
00:39:00,257 --> 00:39:00,507
sort of collaboration among all

1383
00:39:00,924 --> 00:39:01,174
three or under the state.

1384
00:39:04,357 --> 00:39:04,607
I'll answer that, so we, the

1385
00:39:06,224 --> 00:39:06,474
3 of us did discuss. That's why

1386
00:39:06,891 --> 00:39:07,141
2 of us are going together. We

1387
00:39:08,557 --> 00:39:08,807
feel like New Castle County is

1388
00:39:10,424 --> 00:39:10,674
so much more complicated, and we

1389
00:39:12,224 --> 00:39:12,474
knew their price per parcel was

1390
00:39:12,891 --> 00:39:13,141
a lot higher than the two of us.

1391
00:39:16,224 --> 00:39:16,474
So we did go out to bid together

1392
00:39:18,224 --> 00:39:18,474
just to see if coming together

1393
00:39:20,224 --> 00:39:20,474
at least 2, we can bring the

1394
00:39:20,824 --> 00:39:21,074
price down. The problem is the

1395
00:39:22,591 --> 00:39:22,841
timing of it. It took 4 years to

1396
00:39:24,391 --> 00:39:24,641
do the last one. We're now at

1397
00:39:26,324 --> 00:39:26,574
year 3. Like, we have to go out.

1398
00:39:27,057 --> 00:39:27,307
Like, I know when we were having

1399
00:39:28,657 --> 00:39:28,907
the hearings, I told, I said, we

1400
00:39:30,524 --> 00:39:30,774
got to get going. So this was

1401
00:39:31,124 --> 00:39:31,374
the latest I felt comfortable.

1402
00:39:34,257 --> 00:39:34,507
going out to bed and getting

1403
00:39:36,224 --> 00:39:36,474
them in the door as quick as

1404
00:39:36,824 --> 00:39:37,074
possible. So it could

1405
00:39:38,424 --> 00:39:38,674
potentially be a 20.

1406
00:39:40,424 --> 00:39:40,674
35.

1407
00:39:42,524 --> 00:39:42,774
Where we're looking at.

1408
00:39:46,624 --> 00:39:46,874
State level support. I mean, our

1409
00:39:48,357 --> 00:39:48,607
goal is just that, you know,

1410
00:39:50,191 --> 00:39:50,441
our, our discussion about the

1411
00:39:50,857 --> 00:39:51,107
state getting involved is only

1412
00:39:52,224 --> 00:39:52,474
to help bring costs down, not

1413
00:39:54,257 --> 00:39:54,507
for any other, any other thing

1414
00:39:54,957 --> 00:39:55,207
at Sydney, uh.

1415
00:39:56,357 --> 00:39:56,607
I do have one actually, yes,

1416
00:39:56,957 --> 00:39:57,207
from Boston and then Sydney.

1417
00:40:00,257 --> 00:40:00,507
Um, well, speaking to that one.

1418
00:40:02,557 --> 00:40:02,807
In the lawsuit itself, right,

1419
00:40:04,291 --> 00:40:04,541
because we're up against the

1420
00:40:06,357 --> 00:40:06,607
clock and the clock, that's the

1421
00:40:08,191 --> 00:40:08,441
question. I recalled the all,

1422
00:40:08,857 --> 00:40:09,107
See actually I sort of read it

1423
00:40:09,524 --> 00:40:09,774
because I was at the county

1424
00:40:10,157 --> 00:40:10,407
then.

1425
00:40:14,291 --> 00:40:14,541
Um, the 5 years is self-imposed.

1426
00:40:16,357 --> 00:40:16,607
The court's directed us that you

1427
00:40:18,191 --> 00:40:18,441
shall reassess and the property

1428
00:40:20,357 --> 00:40:20,607
shall be assessed at fair, fair

1429
00:40:22,291 --> 00:40:22,541
market value. It didn't say

1430
00:40:24,257 --> 00:40:24,507
every 1 year, 3 years, 5 years,

1431
00:40:24,924 --> 00:40:25,174
or 10.

1432
00:40:26,324 --> 00:40:26,574
It said you better figure it out

1433
00:40:28,291 --> 00:40:28,541
or we're gonna do it for you. Is

1434
00:40:30,324 --> 00:40:30,574
that accurate? So that's

1435
00:40:32,457 --> 00:40:32,707
Some of the problem challenges

1436
00:40:34,757 --> 00:40:35,007
we have is this self-imposed 5

1437
00:40:35,457 --> 00:40:35,707
years.

1438
00:40:38,424 --> 00:40:38,674
That on paper we want to do

1439
00:40:40,424 --> 00:40:40,674
that, but in theory, is it

1440
00:40:41,024 --> 00:40:41,274
creating

1441
00:40:44,224 --> 00:40:44,474
Is it going to prevent us from

1442
00:40:44,891 --> 00:40:45,141
getting it right the second time

1443
00:40:45,591 --> 00:40:45,841
out of the sheet?

1444
00:40:48,291 --> 00:40:48,541
You know, that's the fear I have

1445
00:40:48,991 --> 00:40:49,241
is that our desire to meet the

1446
00:40:52,224 --> 00:40:52,474
five years that's self-imposed

1447
00:40:54,291 --> 00:40:54,541
is gonna force us to then have

1448
00:40:55,024 --> 00:40:55,274
to make all our proper

1449
00:40:55,491 --> 00:40:55,741
corrections.

1450
00:40:58,357 --> 00:40:58,607
After that, which means 10

1451
00:40:58,957 --> 00:40:59,207
years.

1452
00:41:00,524 --> 00:41:00,774
So maybe, maybe we create a

1453
00:41:02,457 --> 00:41:02,707
buffer, a timeout, time out for

1454
00:41:03,157 --> 00:41:03,407
a second.

1455
00:41:06,291 --> 00:41:06,541
Sydney and then Rich, um, this

1456
00:41:08,357 --> 00:41:08,607
is kind of for context for me,

1457
00:41:10,491 --> 00:41:10,741
but when the decision to start,

1458
00:41:12,491 --> 00:41:12,741
or the need to do the math uh

1459
00:41:14,424 --> 00:41:14,674
reassessment. Was there a reason

1460
00:41:16,591 --> 00:41:16,841
why everyone went with mass

1461
00:41:18,224 --> 00:41:18,474
reassessment rather than a

1462
00:41:18,857 --> 00:41:19,107
rolling reassessment.

1463
00:41:22,291 --> 00:41:22,541
Um, or was that in a part of the

1464
00:41:23,024 --> 00:41:23,274
conversations? I'm just curious

1465
00:41:24,391 --> 00:41:24,641
because I feel like rolling

1466
00:41:26,291 --> 00:41:26,541
reassessments usually help like

1467
00:41:28,257 --> 00:41:28,507
your staffing and whatnot, since

1468
00:41:30,224 --> 00:41:30,474
you're spanning it out over

1469
00:41:30,791 --> 00:41:31,041
multiple years. I think the main

1470
00:41:32,557 --> 00:41:32,807
thing it was because we hadn't

1471
00:41:34,424 --> 00:41:34,674
done it in 40 years, you can't

1472
00:41:36,224 --> 00:41:36,474
do something rolling until you

1473
00:41:38,457 --> 00:41:38,707
have a good. OK. Uh, back, a

1474
00:41:40,257 --> 00:41:40,507
good starting point. Right.

1475
00:41:42,257 --> 00:41:42,507
Yeah. Also, uh, you know,

1476
00:41:42,824 --> 00:41:43,074
rolling is, I mean, I know

1477
00:41:44,291 --> 00:41:44,541
that's what they do in Maryland.

1478
00:41:44,957 --> 00:41:45,207
Yeah.

1479
00:41:45,207 --> 00:41:45,457
But, uh, that's not,

1480
00:41:48,391 --> 00:41:48,641
I'm not for that, so

1481
00:41:50,424 --> 00:41:50,674
Yeah, that's helpful. And also

1482
00:41:52,291 --> 00:41:52,541
just rolling we're gonna be take

1483
00:41:54,324 --> 00:41:54,574
it takes a year to do everything

1484
00:41:54,957 --> 00:41:55,207
so

1485
00:41:55,207 --> 00:41:55,457
to defend Kent,

1486
00:41:58,224 --> 00:41:58,474
Sussex's number is a little low.

1487
00:42:00,224 --> 00:42:00,474
What I meant in the survey was

1488
00:42:00,924 --> 00:42:01,174
it costs us 2.5 million each

1489
00:42:02,557 --> 00:42:02,807
year for the reassessment

1490
00:42:03,057 --> 00:42:03,307
process.

1491
00:42:06,457 --> 00:42:06,707
It's been added to the budget,

1492
00:42:08,424 --> 00:42:08,674
so you need to add another 2

1493
00:42:10,224 --> 00:42:10,474
million to our number, so there

1494
00:42:10,924 --> 00:42:11,174
was confusion in the answer to

1495
00:42:12,457 --> 00:42:12,707
the survey, so our number is not

1496
00:42:14,291 --> 00:42:14,541
that low. I, we look great,

1497
00:42:14,857 --> 00:42:15,107
awesome, but I.

1498
00:42:16,324 --> 00:42:16,574
I was very I was very.

1499
00:42:18,391 --> 00:42:18,641
I couldn't talk to you

1500
00:42:20,391 --> 00:42:20,641
afterwards. I was very generous

1501
00:42:21,091 --> 00:42:21,341
of you.

1502
00:42:22,524 --> 00:42:22,774
Transparency, that number's too

1503
00:42:24,491 --> 00:42:24,741
low, but again, I really

1504
00:42:26,157 --> 00:42:26,407
appreciate you guys getting it

1505
00:42:26,857 --> 00:42:27,107
back and not overthinking it

1506
00:42:28,257 --> 00:42:28,507
because we wouldn't be able to

1507
00:42:30,224 --> 00:42:30,474
have this conversation if we,

1508
00:42:30,924 --> 00:42:31,174
you know, we're, we're, we're,

1509
00:42:32,191 --> 00:42:32,441
we're moving really, really

1510
00:42:32,824 --> 00:42:33,074
fast. So yeah, the other person

1511
00:42:34,324 --> 00:42:34,574
to ask to answer this question

1512
00:42:34,991 --> 00:42:35,241
is Cindy Cindy and I are just

1513
00:42:36,591 --> 00:42:36,841
talking. I don't remember. I

1514
00:42:38,457 --> 00:42:38,707
know it was talked about the

1515
00:42:40,391 --> 00:42:40,641
rolling reassessments. I

1516
00:42:40,924 --> 00:42:41,174
know it was talked about the

1517
00:42:41,524 --> 00:42:41,774
rolling reassessments, and I

1518
00:42:42,224 --> 00:42:42,474
remember the counties had issues

1519
00:42:42,957 --> 00:42:43,207
with it, but beyond that, I

1520
00:42:44,357 --> 00:42:44,607
don't remember. That might be a

1521
00:42:45,024 --> 00:42:45,274
question actually for

1522
00:42:46,357 --> 00:42:46,607
Representative Wilson Anton

1523
00:42:48,424 --> 00:42:48,674
because it was her bill, OK,

1524
00:42:49,057 --> 00:42:49,307
um.

1525
00:42:52,491 --> 00:42:52,741
I, I just, do you remember? No,

1526
00:42:54,457 --> 00:42:54,707
I, I, I, I don't.

1527
00:42:56,224 --> 00:42:56,474
I, I just, do you remember? No,

1528
00:42:56,924 --> 00:42:57,174
I, I, I, I go to

1529
00:42:58,224 --> 00:42:58,474
Rich, and then Senator. Sure, I

1530
00:42:58,924 --> 00:42:59,174
go to

1531
00:42:59,174 --> 00:42:59,424
Rich, and then Senator Buck.

1532
00:42:59,657 --> 00:42:59,907
Sure, I just wanted to add two

1533
00:43:00,291 --> 00:43:00,541
facts and to answer in part to

1534
00:43:00,991 --> 00:43:01,241
answer in part Senator Lumpton's

1535
00:43:01,724 --> 00:43:01,974
question.

1536
00:43:04,524 --> 00:43:04,774
The 5 years, while it is, as you

1537
00:43:06,391 --> 00:43:06,641
say, self-imposed.

1538
00:43:10,191 --> 00:43:10,441
Doing it in 5 years as opposed

1539
00:43:12,224 --> 00:43:12,474
to kicking the can down the road

1540
00:43:14,424 --> 00:43:14,674
for maybe 10 years is going to

1541
00:43:16,324 --> 00:43:16,574
improve things for all the

1542
00:43:16,891 --> 00:43:17,141
taxpayers, because even if

1543
00:43:22,324 --> 00:43:22,574
Enough changes aren't made as a

1544
00:43:24,291 --> 00:43:24,541
result of legislation coming out

1545
00:43:25,024 --> 00:43:25,274
of this process. The next

1546
00:43:26,491 --> 00:43:26,741
reassessment, just like the last

1547
00:43:30,357 --> 00:43:30,607
one is gonna make assessments on

1548
00:43:32,457 --> 00:43:32,707
average a lot more accurate than

1549
00:43:34,457 --> 00:43:34,707
they have been, so it's going to

1550
00:43:36,424 --> 00:43:36,674
improve it for taxpayers even if

1551
00:43:38,224 --> 00:43:38,474
it doesn't get us as close to

1552
00:43:40,391 --> 00:43:40,641
perfect as everybody would like

1553
00:43:42,257 --> 00:43:42,507
to be. So that's the downside to

1554
00:43:42,957 --> 00:43:43,207
sort of.

1555
00:43:44,424 --> 00:43:44,674
You know, changing it from 5 to

1556
00:43:46,524 --> 00:43:46,774
10. In the court case, I will

1557
00:43:50,291 --> 00:43:50,541
tell you we had a conference

1558
00:43:52,324 --> 00:43:52,574
where we basically let sort of

1559
00:43:54,257 --> 00:43:54,507
raised with the judge the issue

1560
00:43:54,924 --> 00:43:55,174
of his ruling, how often it had

1561
00:43:58,324 --> 00:43:58,574
to be done. And what he said

1562
00:44:00,324 --> 00:44:00,574
was, I only order that.

1563
00:44:06,157 --> 00:44:06,407
If if the proof gives me reason

1564
00:44:08,291 --> 00:44:08,541
to worry the counties won't do

1565
00:44:10,224 --> 00:44:10,474
it again within a reasonable

1566
00:44:12,224 --> 00:44:12,474
time, and we never got to that,

1567
00:44:12,957 --> 00:44:13,207
but if it got changed to 10

1568
00:44:14,657 --> 00:44:14,907
years and somebody wanted to

1569
00:44:15,291 --> 00:44:15,541
file a lawsuit again.

1570
00:44:18,324 --> 00:44:18,574
The counties will, I think, be

1571
00:44:20,224 --> 00:44:20,474
opening themselves up to that.

1572
00:44:20,824 --> 00:44:21,074
whereas at 5 years, that's

1573
00:44:22,524 --> 00:44:22,774
obviously not going to happen

1574
00:44:23,124 --> 00:44:23,374
and in

1575
00:44:24,424 --> 00:44:24,674
The counties will, I think, be

1576
00:44:25,091 --> 00:44:25,341
opening themselves up to that,

1577
00:44:25,791 --> 00:44:26,041
whereas at 5 years, that's

1578
00:44:26,391 --> 00:44:26,641
obviously not going to happen,

1579
00:44:27,091 --> 00:44:27,341
and, and respect, and I could,

1580
00:44:27,791 --> 00:44:28,041
now's not the time to say, yeah,

1581
00:44:28,524 --> 00:44:28,774
but this is what I'm thinking

1582
00:44:30,224 --> 00:44:30,474
because, but your, your points

1583
00:44:30,824 --> 00:44:31,074
are fair. I think I could argue

1584
00:44:32,391 --> 00:44:32,641
a couple other points. We both

1585
00:44:34,224 --> 00:44:34,474
agree with what you said. The

1586
00:44:36,257 --> 00:44:36,507
judge said, you figure it out,

1587
00:44:38,191 --> 00:44:38,441
I'll figure it out for you. So

1588
00:44:40,224 --> 00:44:40,474
my question now is, it, it, and

1589
00:44:40,924 --> 00:44:41,174
I'm not saying 10.

1590
00:44:42,524 --> 00:44:42,774
Maybe it's 6, maybe it's just,

1591
00:44:44,391 --> 00:44:44,641
enough, just pause it long

1592
00:44:46,324 --> 00:44:46,574
enough for us to complete our

1593
00:44:46,891 --> 00:44:47,141
work and, and accurately

1594
00:44:50,224 --> 00:44:50,474
implement it, you know, but let

1595
00:44:50,924 --> 00:44:51,174
me get to the last one, this one

1596
00:44:52,324 --> 00:44:52,574
should, should be pretty quick.

1597
00:44:54,457 --> 00:44:54,707
So you've put out your bids. Is

1598
00:44:55,157 --> 00:44:55,407
Tyler the only game in town?

1599
00:44:58,191 --> 00:44:58,441
We're pretty confident we'll get

1600
00:44:58,891 --> 00:44:59,141
2, right?

1601
00:44:59,157 --> 00:44:59,407
I'm not

1602
00:45:02,224 --> 00:45:02,474
anti-Tyler, but can you imagine

1603
00:45:02,924 --> 00:45:03,174
if it's only Tyler, you better

1604
00:45:04,457 --> 00:45:04,707
have your ducks in a row because

1605
00:45:06,491 --> 00:45:06,741
everybody's gonna be coming at

1606
00:45:07,191 --> 00:45:07,441
us.

1607
00:45:10,224 --> 00:45:10,474
Yeah, oh yeah, yeah.

1608
00:45:10,691 --> 00:45:10,941
OK, Justin, thank you.

1609
00:45:12,324 --> 00:45:12,574
Yeah.

1610
00:45:14,424 --> 00:45:14,674
OK. Um,

1611
00:45:20,224 --> 00:45:20,474
Next slide. OK, so what camera

1612
00:45:20,824 --> 00:45:21,074
system was used in the, and the

1613
00:45:22,524 --> 00:45:22,774
counties can pipe in here if I'm

1614
00:45:26,224 --> 00:45:26,474
misstating anything, but I, I

1615
00:45:26,857 --> 00:45:27,107
believe they're all using the

1616
00:45:28,557 --> 00:45:28,807
enterprise assessment and tax

1617
00:45:32,657 --> 00:45:32,907
system with IAS world as as

1618
00:45:36,257 --> 00:45:36,507
there came a system. Um, is that

1619
00:45:36,957 --> 00:45:37,207
right, counties?

1620
00:45:38,557 --> 00:45:38,807
I kind of got different answers,

1621
00:45:40,424 --> 00:45:40,674
but I think, I think you're all

1622
00:45:42,491 --> 00:45:42,741
on the same thing. Yes. Yeah.

1623
00:45:43,157 --> 00:45:43,407
OK.

1624
00:45:44,457 --> 00:45:44,707
All right.

1625
00:45:52,357 --> 00:45:52,607
So current GIS tools, so they're

1626
00:45:54,357 --> 00:45:54,607
all, uh, I think all the

1627
00:45:56,291 --> 00:45:56,541
counties also are using very

1628
00:45:58,424 --> 00:45:58,674
similar GIS tools, uh, Eagle

1629
00:46:00,491 --> 00:46:00,741
View, which is an aerial image

1630
00:46:02,324 --> 00:46:02,574
provider who provides.

1631
00:46:06,191 --> 00:46:06,441
Ortho and oblique imagery, which

1632
00:46:08,324 --> 00:46:08,574
is pretty much fancy words for

1633
00:46:10,291 --> 00:46:10,541
straight down and at your

1634
00:46:10,791 --> 00:46:11,041
cardinal.

1635
00:46:12,424 --> 00:46:12,674
Different angles, northeast,

1636
00:46:16,191 --> 00:46:16,441
southwest, um, these different,

1637
00:46:16,891 --> 00:46:17,141
it's sort of like Google Earth.

1638
00:46:18,391 --> 00:46:18,641
If anyone's used Google Earth

1639
00:46:20,291 --> 00:46:20,541
before, where you can see the

1640
00:46:22,357 --> 00:46:22,607
different angles around a

1641
00:46:24,357 --> 00:46:24,607
building. It makes it a little

1642
00:46:26,424 --> 00:46:26,674
more 3D or you can kind of get

1643
00:46:28,391 --> 00:46:28,641
the different 3D angles anyway.

1644
00:46:30,324 --> 00:46:30,574
um, yeah, it's also got

1645
00:46:32,291 --> 00:46:32,541
measuring tools on it, so they

1646
00:46:32,957 --> 00:46:33,207
can verify measurements of

1647
00:46:34,591 --> 00:46:34,841
buildings or sizes of parking

1648
00:46:38,291 --> 00:46:38,541
lots, um, different things like

1649
00:46:40,357 --> 00:46:40,607
that, verify different parts of

1650
00:46:41,057 --> 00:46:41,307
a property is being.

1651
00:46:42,291 --> 00:46:42,541
You know, maybe this part of the

1652
00:46:44,257 --> 00:46:44,507
property is agricultural and

1653
00:46:46,224 --> 00:46:46,474
this part's residential, so they

1654
00:46:46,957 --> 00:46:47,207
can kind of identify those areas

1655
00:46:50,357 --> 00:46:50,607
using some of these tools.

1656
00:46:54,524 --> 00:46:54,774
Alright, so appeal summary, um,

1657
00:46:56,457 --> 00:46:56,707
new and each county kind of gave

1658
00:46:58,324 --> 00:46:58,574
me a little different format, so

1659
00:47:00,224 --> 00:47:00,474
I've got their own pages here.

1660
00:47:04,224 --> 00:47:04,474
Uh, New Castle County had 11,407

1661
00:47:06,324 --> 00:47:06,574
informal appeals. That's a 5.2%

1662
00:47:08,557 --> 00:47:08,807
informal appeal rate, which to

1663
00:47:09,257 --> 00:47:09,507
me is.

1664
00:47:12,424 --> 00:47:12,674
Is very reasonable considering

1665
00:47:14,224 --> 00:47:14,474
you hadn't had a reassessment in

1666
00:47:14,891 --> 00:47:15,141
a long time. I would

1667
00:47:16,391 --> 00:47:16,641
I would even think you would

1668
00:47:18,324 --> 00:47:18,574
have higher rates than that, um,

1669
00:47:22,391 --> 00:47:22,641
So close via stipulation, so the

1670
00:47:24,324 --> 00:47:24,574
two parties agreed on the

1671
00:47:26,524 --> 00:47:26,774
valuation. They had 3800

1672
00:47:30,291 --> 00:47:30,541
parcels closed via deficiency,

1673
00:47:32,391 --> 00:47:32,641
193, other reasons you can kind

1674
00:47:33,057 --> 00:47:33,307
of read these, um.

1675
00:47:36,324 --> 00:47:36,574
So that's Newcastle.

1676
00:47:38,391 --> 00:47:38,641
Sussex.

1677
00:47:44,224 --> 00:47:44,474
Informal, they had 11,647. Pell

1678
00:47:46,357 --> 00:47:46,607
rates 5.7, so not much different

1679
00:47:48,424 --> 00:47:48,674
than Newcastle saw. Um, their

1680
00:47:52,424 --> 00:47:52,674
change rate was 52%, so about

1681
00:47:54,224 --> 00:47:54,474
half of the properties that were

1682
00:47:54,891 --> 00:47:55,141
appealed at formal level, they

1683
00:47:58,491 --> 00:47:58,741
made some some sort of of a

1684
00:47:59,124 --> 00:47:59,374
change to the value.

1685
00:48:02,557 --> 00:48:02,807
Then at uh formal appeals to

1686
00:48:06,424 --> 00:48:06,674
referees. They had 11,700 or

1687
00:48:10,624 --> 00:48:10,874
1,723. That'd be an appeal rate

1688
00:48:14,391 --> 00:48:14,641
of just 0.9% of the total

1689
00:48:18,424 --> 00:48:18,674
parcels, um, and of those 65%

1690
00:48:20,691 --> 00:48:20,941
were changed in in some way

1691
00:48:22,424 --> 00:48:22,674
because of the appeal, formal

1692
00:48:24,324 --> 00:48:24,574
appeal to the board. There was

1693
00:48:28,257 --> 00:48:28,507
just 71, 25 of those were

1694
00:48:28,791 --> 00:48:29,041
changed, or about 35% of those

1695
00:48:29,524 --> 00:48:29,774
were changed. And then,

1696
00:48:32,224 --> 00:48:32,474
Superior Court, they had one

1697
00:48:34,324 --> 00:48:34,574
appeal. Um, there was no

1698
00:48:34,857 --> 00:48:35,107
reduction made there, no change

1699
00:48:35,557 --> 00:48:35,807
made there.

1700
00:48:40,324 --> 00:48:40,574
Kent County, um, informal

1701
00:48:44,524 --> 00:48:44,774
appeals, 4,274. They had 4.7%,

1702
00:48:46,457 --> 00:48:46,707
so you know the other counties

1703
00:48:48,391 --> 00:48:48,641
are in the 5 range, 4.7. They're

1704
00:48:50,291 --> 00:48:50,541
all kind of in that same

1705
00:48:54,457 --> 00:48:54,707
ballpark, um, 41.9%, 42% had a

1706
00:48:56,624 --> 00:48:56,874
change at the informal level,

1707
00:48:58,624 --> 00:48:58,874
then formal appeal to referees,

1708
00:49:06,224 --> 00:49:06,474
uh, 676 of those and about 65%

1709
00:49:06,891 --> 00:49:07,141
saw a change, and then formal

1710
00:49:07,524 --> 00:49:07,774
appeal to the board.

1711
00:49:12,424 --> 00:49:12,674
They had 313 and 19% of those

1712
00:49:14,491 --> 00:49:14,741
saw some sort of a change, so

1713
00:49:18,324 --> 00:49:18,574
pretty low change right there.

1714
00:49:20,224 --> 00:49:20,474
You know, I think something

1715
00:49:20,824 --> 00:49:21,074
that's interesting and when we

1716
00:49:22,324 --> 00:49:22,574
were talking to Justin about um

1717
00:49:26,357 --> 00:49:26,607
This over the course is, as a

1718
00:49:28,291 --> 00:49:28,541
legislator who's in the state

1719
00:49:30,357 --> 00:49:30,607
and has been receiving a lot of

1720
00:49:31,091 --> 00:49:31,341
the feedback from, you know,

1721
00:49:32,424 --> 00:49:32,674
constituents and as I'm sure you

1722
00:49:34,291 --> 00:49:34,541
have, and as I'm sure you guys

1723
00:49:34,991 --> 00:49:35,241
have.

1724
00:49:38,224 --> 00:49:38,474
It felt so astronomical, right?

1725
00:49:38,957 --> 00:49:39,207
And to have somebody come in,

1726
00:49:40,424 --> 00:49:40,674
um, multiple times and be like,

1727
00:49:42,291 --> 00:49:42,541
no, you haven't done it in 4

1728
00:49:42,924 --> 00:49:43,174
years. That's actually normal,

1729
00:49:44,291 --> 00:49:44,541
you know what I mean? And now

1730
00:49:44,957 --> 00:49:45,207
seeing that you guys were all

1731
00:49:46,324 --> 00:49:46,574
kind of in that same range,

1732
00:49:48,257 --> 00:49:48,507
Like, it felt, and, but that's

1733
00:49:50,224 --> 00:49:50,474
where I think the communication

1734
00:49:50,957 --> 00:49:51,207
really broke down is.

1735
00:49:54,191 --> 00:49:54,441
It's, it's easy to go on social

1736
00:49:54,924 --> 00:49:55,174
media or something and be like,

1737
00:49:56,357 --> 00:49:56,607
5%, they, you know, whatever,

1738
00:49:56,957 --> 00:49:57,207
and it's like,

1739
00:49:58,491 --> 00:49:58,741
Know that this was actually.

1740
00:50:02,457 --> 00:50:02,707
Probably even predictable um

1741
00:50:04,357 --> 00:50:04,607
that those would be the things

1742
00:50:06,191 --> 00:50:06,441
that we should have had happen

1743
00:50:06,857 --> 00:50:07,107
and, and just.

1744
00:50:08,291 --> 00:50:08,541
Really communicating better to

1745
00:50:10,191 --> 00:50:10,441
the public because I, I felt

1746
00:50:10,824 --> 00:50:11,074
like it was just such an

1747
00:50:12,491 --> 00:50:12,741
anomaly, um, and obviously there

1748
00:50:13,157 --> 00:50:13,407
are anomalies, but.

1749
00:50:16,224 --> 00:50:16,474
It, it's just interesting to see

1750
00:50:18,257 --> 00:50:18,507
that, how, how there is a lot of

1751
00:50:18,957 --> 00:50:19,207
commonality.

1752
00:50:20,424 --> 00:50:20,674
Yeah, and, and to give you a

1753
00:50:22,524 --> 00:50:22,774
little perspective on this. Um,

1754
00:50:24,357 --> 00:50:24,607
I was a county appraiser in

1755
00:50:26,357 --> 00:50:26,607
Kansas. We valued every single

1756
00:50:28,224 --> 00:50:28,474
year, we would put out brand new

1757
00:50:30,224 --> 00:50:30,474
values, and our appeal rate

1758
00:50:30,791 --> 00:50:31,041
averaged around 2%.

1759
00:50:34,391 --> 00:50:34,641
Per year at the informal level,

1760
00:50:36,457 --> 00:50:36,707
And so, um, and, and then I've

1761
00:50:38,357 --> 00:50:38,607
worked with jurisdictions in

1762
00:50:42,224 --> 00:50:42,474
Texas, and their laws are, they

1763
00:50:44,357 --> 00:50:44,607
kind of encourage appeals, the

1764
00:50:46,257 --> 00:50:46,507
way their laws are written, and

1765
00:50:48,291 --> 00:50:48,541
they actually see 35% appeal

1766
00:50:48,924 --> 00:50:49,174
rates every single year.

1767
00:50:54,191 --> 00:50:54,441
Um, and so, you know, to see 5%,

1768
00:50:56,191 --> 00:50:56,441
I think that's very reasonable

1769
00:50:56,824 --> 00:50:57,074
for 4 to 5 decades.

1770
00:51:04,391 --> 00:51:04,641
All right, um, New Castle County

1771
00:51:06,291 --> 00:51:06,541
responses to questions. So we

1772
00:51:06,924 --> 00:51:07,174
asked some questions and these

1773
00:51:10,191 --> 00:51:10,441
are kind of open ended, so they

1774
00:51:10,891 --> 00:51:11,141
gave the answers and I didn't

1775
00:51:11,457 --> 00:51:11,707
want to really

1776
00:51:14,291 --> 00:51:14,541
You know, I could have summarize

1777
00:51:15,024 --> 00:51:15,274
You know, I could have

1778
00:51:15,524 --> 00:51:15,774
summarized them a little more, I

1779
00:51:16,491 --> 00:51:16,741
guess, but I just sort of put

1780
00:51:18,457 --> 00:51:18,707
what their answer was because I

1781
00:51:20,457 --> 00:51:20,707
didn't want to misrepresent

1782
00:51:22,357 --> 00:51:22,607
anything. Um, provide an

1783
00:51:24,191 --> 00:51:24,441
overview of the administrative

1784
00:51:26,224 --> 00:51:26,474
capacity and governance

1785
00:51:26,657 --> 00:51:26,907
structure. Compare your prior

1786
00:51:28,491 --> 00:51:28,741
assessment to the current uh

1787
00:51:32,357 --> 00:51:32,607
status, given the transitions of

1788
00:51:34,191 --> 00:51:34,441
administration, the current NCC

1789
00:51:36,257 --> 00:51:36,507
team cannot provide details on

1790
00:51:38,257 --> 00:51:38,507
the outset, but can share an

1791
00:51:40,391 --> 00:51:40,641
overview on what has occurred

1792
00:51:40,991 --> 00:51:41,241
from 2025 to present day.

1793
00:51:44,291 --> 00:51:44,541
Below is the present day

1794
00:51:46,357 --> 00:51:46,607
overview. So, uh, currently the

1795
00:51:48,424 --> 00:51:48,674
assessment office is now led by

1796
00:51:50,457 --> 00:51:50,707
the county assessor, which is a

1797
00:51:52,491 --> 00:51:52,741
brand new position for the

1798
00:51:54,524 --> 00:51:54,774
county as of 2026. I, I think

1799
00:51:56,624 --> 00:51:56,874
that's a good move. Um, this

1800
00:51:58,491 --> 00:51:58,741
position requires appropriate

1801
00:52:00,524 --> 00:52:00,774
certifications, whereas the past

1802
00:52:02,624 --> 00:52:02,874
head of the office did not have

1803
00:52:06,224 --> 00:52:06,474
such a requirement. Uh, IAA

1804
00:52:06,824 --> 00:52:07,074
would also be in support of

1805
00:52:08,757 --> 00:52:09,007
that. Um, additionally, the

1806
00:52:10,591 --> 00:52:10,841
county assessor's, uh, report to

1807
00:52:11,257 --> 00:52:11,507
the chief financial.

1808
00:52:14,524 --> 00:52:14,774
Officer of the county and is

1809
00:52:16,357 --> 00:52:16,607
supported by the administrative

1810
00:52:18,224 --> 00:52:18,474
staff of 4 that includes 3

1811
00:52:20,291 --> 00:52:20,541
supervisors and an assessment

1812
00:52:20,991 --> 00:52:21,241
project manager.

1813
00:52:22,357 --> 00:52:22,607
And then uh.

1814
00:52:24,457 --> 00:52:24,707
To ensure appropriate

1815
00:52:26,557 --> 00:52:26,807
governance, the assessor's

1816
00:52:28,391 --> 00:52:28,641
office and county in early fall

1817
00:52:30,524 --> 00:52:30,774
of 2025, instituted weekly

1818
00:52:32,391 --> 00:52:32,641
touch points that include the

1819
00:52:34,224 --> 00:52:34,474
principals of each of the

1820
00:52:36,391 --> 00:52:36,641
following offices, uh, or the

1821
00:52:38,524 --> 00:52:38,774
representatives, so, um, they're

1822
00:52:40,457 --> 00:52:40,707
having these meetings on a

1823
00:52:42,591 --> 00:52:42,841
regular basis, which is always a

1824
00:52:43,291 --> 00:52:43,541
good thing.

1825
00:52:46,524 --> 00:52:46,774
All right, um,

1826
00:52:50,424 --> 00:52:50,674
Providing, OK, um, providing an

1827
00:52:52,224 --> 00:52:52,474
overview of the county and

1828
00:52:54,257 --> 00:52:54,507
vendor roles, responsibilities,

1829
00:52:56,191 --> 00:52:56,441
and mass appraisal, including

1830
00:52:58,224 --> 00:52:58,474
county staff oversight, compare

1831
00:52:58,857 --> 00:52:59,107
your prior assessment.

1832
00:53:02,324 --> 00:53:02,574
Uh, to the outset of the current

1833
00:53:03,024 --> 00:53:03,274
status.

1834
00:53:08,424 --> 00:53:08,674
So, um, and this one again, um,

1835
00:53:10,457 --> 00:53:10,707
you know, New Castle County has

1836
00:53:14,424 --> 00:53:14,674
seen some, some turnover in, in

1837
00:53:16,191 --> 00:53:16,441
administration staff and that

1838
00:53:16,857 --> 00:53:17,107
kind of thing. So they're just

1839
00:53:18,191 --> 00:53:18,441
doing it from their current

1840
00:53:20,324 --> 00:53:20,574
perspective. Um, it's important

1841
00:53:22,224 --> 00:53:22,474
to note that the county's role

1842
00:53:22,857 --> 00:53:23,107
and responsibilities and mass

1843
00:53:24,457 --> 00:53:24,707
appraisal are governed by the

1844
00:53:26,324 --> 00:53:26,574
contractual arrangement entered

1845
00:53:28,391 --> 00:53:28,641
with the vendor who's chosen,

1846
00:53:30,224 --> 00:53:30,474
uh, to complete the mass

1847
00:53:32,257 --> 00:53:32,507
appraisal, the county outlined

1848
00:53:32,957 --> 00:53:33,207
the vendor requirements,

1849
00:53:34,424 --> 00:53:34,674
standards, and expectations,

1850
00:53:35,024 --> 00:53:35,274
outcomes.

1851
00:53:38,491 --> 00:53:38,741
Results sought through a request

1852
00:53:40,257 --> 00:53:40,507
for proposal, uh, which

1853
00:53:44,291 --> 00:53:44,541
Included review by IAAO. So some

1854
00:53:46,424 --> 00:53:46,674
of my predecessors, um, when you

1855
00:53:48,357 --> 00:53:48,607
started this process, uh,

1856
00:53:50,591 --> 00:53:50,841
Actually helped out with the RFP

1857
00:53:51,291 --> 00:53:51,541
process.

1858
00:53:58,457 --> 00:53:58,707
All right, um, continuing, um,

1859
00:54:00,491 --> 00:54:00,741
additionally, county is in its

1860
00:54:02,424 --> 00:54:02,674
RFP and we've already talked

1861
00:54:04,357 --> 00:54:04,607
about some of this a little bit,

1862
00:54:06,391 --> 00:54:06,641
County's currently in their RFP

1863
00:54:08,357 --> 00:54:08,607
process, uh, prior to the

1864
00:54:10,291 --> 00:54:10,541
reassessment appraisal process,

1865
00:54:12,257 --> 00:54:12,507
the county assessment office

1866
00:54:12,857 --> 00:54:13,107
rarely relied on third-party

1867
00:54:14,624 --> 00:54:14,874
vendors to assist in the day to

1868
00:54:16,424 --> 00:54:16,674
day running of the assessment

1869
00:54:18,491 --> 00:54:18,741
office, but they did rely on a

1870
00:54:20,357 --> 00:54:20,607
vendor to assist completing the

1871
00:54:22,691 --> 00:54:22,941
1983 mass uh reassessment.

1872
00:54:28,391 --> 00:54:28,641
All right, state your appraisal

1873
00:54:29,024 --> 00:54:29,274
methodology, quality control.

1874
00:54:34,224 --> 00:54:34,474
Um, completed standards,

1875
00:54:34,724 --> 00:54:34,974
benchmarks, tax roll review, and

1876
00:54:38,257 --> 00:54:38,507
certification for prior

1877
00:54:38,791 --> 00:54:39,041
assessments. Given the uh

1878
00:54:42,424 --> 00:54:42,674
You know, they transitioned

1879
00:54:44,491 --> 00:54:44,741
administration. Um, so they're,

1880
00:54:46,391 --> 00:54:46,641
you know, assessment office is

1881
00:54:48,424 --> 00:54:48,674
always running quality control,

1882
00:54:50,224 --> 00:54:50,474
and, and that's what Newcastle

1883
00:54:52,357 --> 00:54:52,607
is doing, so that's, that's what

1884
00:54:53,057 --> 00:54:53,307
they should do.

1885
00:54:53,391 --> 00:54:53,641
Um,

1886
00:54:56,357 --> 00:54:56,607
Probably the most recent um and.

1887
00:54:58,291 --> 00:54:58,541
OK, so.

1888
00:55:00,424 --> 00:55:00,674
The county used the base year

1889
00:55:02,524 --> 00:55:02,774
method of reassessment before,

1890
00:55:04,557 --> 00:55:04,807
so they were kind of going back

1891
00:55:06,691 --> 00:55:06,941
to 1983. So even if you build,

1892
00:55:08,491 --> 00:55:08,741
let's say you built a new

1893
00:55:10,424 --> 00:55:10,674
property, they would factor it

1894
00:55:14,257 --> 00:55:14,507
back to 1983, which is sort of,

1895
00:55:14,924 --> 00:55:15,174
I mean, that's your only option

1896
00:55:16,457 --> 00:55:16,707
when, when that's what you're

1897
00:55:18,424 --> 00:55:18,674
doing. I think it's a little odd

1898
00:55:19,124 --> 00:55:19,374
to probably property owners when

1899
00:55:20,491 --> 00:55:20,741
you're like, well, uh what is my

1900
00:55:22,491 --> 00:55:22,741
value again, and how do you

1901
00:55:24,557 --> 00:55:24,807
calculate it, but um that's your

1902
00:55:26,257 --> 00:55:26,507
option when that's your base

1903
00:55:28,391 --> 00:55:28,641
year. So, uh, specifically an

1904
00:55:29,091 --> 00:55:29,341
assessor would

1905
00:55:30,491 --> 00:55:30,741
Calculate a cost approach value

1906
00:55:34,224 --> 00:55:34,474
from present uh present property

1907
00:55:34,891 --> 00:55:35,141
characteristics data and trend

1908
00:55:38,357 --> 00:55:38,607
it back to 1983 using commercial

1909
00:55:40,524 --> 00:55:40,774
cost manual, um, used primarily

1910
00:55:42,324 --> 00:55:42,574
to buy new construction.

1911
00:55:44,357 --> 00:55:44,607
So they would, they would have a

1912
00:55:46,191 --> 00:55:46,441
commercial cost manual for

1913
00:55:46,791 --> 00:55:47,041
commercial properties, a

1914
00:55:48,357 --> 00:55:48,607
residential cost manual for

1915
00:55:50,357 --> 00:55:50,607
residential properties, and they

1916
00:55:52,257 --> 00:55:52,507
would come up with that cost

1917
00:55:52,857 --> 00:55:53,107
value and then factor it back to

1918
00:55:58,257 --> 00:55:58,507
1983.

1919
00:56:02,224 --> 00:56:02,474
Alright, um, and then the market

1920
00:56:04,257 --> 00:56:04,507
sales or income approaches to

1921
00:56:04,924 --> 00:56:05,174
value may also have been used to

1922
00:56:06,357 --> 00:56:06,607
derive the 1983 values. So,

1923
00:56:10,391 --> 00:56:10,641
That's also trying to factor

1924
00:56:12,391 --> 00:56:12,641
things back to 1983, I'm sure

1925
00:56:14,424 --> 00:56:14,674
has been extremely challenging

1926
00:56:18,191 --> 00:56:18,441
for the, for the county. Um, the

1927
00:56:18,857 --> 00:56:19,107
Office of Finance certifies

1928
00:56:20,457 --> 00:56:20,707
assessment role to the chief

1929
00:56:22,357 --> 00:56:22,607
financial officer, who then

1930
00:56:24,357 --> 00:56:24,607
certifies the total value of the

1931
00:56:26,224 --> 00:56:26,474
property located in the county

1932
00:56:26,924 --> 00:56:27,174
to the county council.

1933
00:56:28,557 --> 00:56:28,807
The Board of assessment reviews,

1934
00:56:30,424 --> 00:56:30,674
reviews the annual role and

1935
00:56:32,357 --> 00:56:32,607
assessment methods used.

1936
00:56:36,424 --> 00:56:36,674
So you can see they've got some

1937
00:56:38,224 --> 00:56:38,474
quality control checks built

1938
00:56:38,891 --> 00:56:39,141
into their process.

1939
00:56:42,257 --> 00:56:42,507
What a purchase value were uh

1940
00:56:44,324 --> 00:56:44,574
generated or utilized for each

1941
00:56:46,291 --> 00:56:46,541
of the following property types,

1942
00:56:48,324 --> 00:56:48,574
residential, uh, did they use

1943
00:56:50,324 --> 00:56:50,574
sales or market cost income

1944
00:56:52,457 --> 00:56:52,707
on commercial properties? Was it

1945
00:56:56,357 --> 00:56:56,607
sales, um, costs or income. So

1946
00:56:58,224 --> 00:56:58,474
just so everyone knows, because

1947
00:56:58,857 --> 00:56:59,107
I know everyone's not an

1948
00:57:00,457 --> 00:57:00,707
appraiser. There's 3 approaches

1949
00:57:02,457 --> 00:57:02,707
to value when you, um, value

1950
00:57:04,491 --> 00:57:04,741
real estate, and that is the

1951
00:57:06,357 --> 00:57:06,607
cost approach, the sales

1952
00:57:08,224 --> 00:57:08,474
approach, and the income

1953
00:57:08,757 --> 00:57:09,007
approach. And, um, so.

1954
00:57:12,324 --> 00:57:12,574
They, they utilize each of those

1955
00:57:14,224 --> 00:57:14,474
approaches in the evaluation

1956
00:57:14,857 --> 00:57:15,107
just for clarification.

1957
00:57:20,224 --> 00:57:20,474
As per as per useA standards,

1958
00:57:22,191 --> 00:57:22,441
which is the standards for

1959
00:57:24,557 --> 00:57:24,807
appraisers, mass appraisals only

1960
00:57:26,591 --> 00:57:26,841
use two of the three approaches

1961
00:57:28,324 --> 00:57:28,574
depending on the property type.

1962
00:57:32,191 --> 00:57:32,441
For example, income approach is

1963
00:57:32,857 --> 00:57:33,107
not used for residential

1964
00:57:34,457 --> 00:57:34,707
properties, though it is used in

1965
00:57:36,424 --> 00:57:36,674
agricultural properties, just

1966
00:57:38,491 --> 00:57:38,741
for an example, so not all three

1967
00:57:40,257 --> 00:57:40,507
approaches were used, which

1968
00:57:42,257 --> 00:57:42,507
definitely got us into trouble

1969
00:57:42,957 --> 00:57:43,207
during the um

1970
00:57:44,391 --> 00:57:44,641
There was the working group last

1971
00:57:46,191 --> 00:57:46,441
year when we were talking about

1972
00:57:48,324 --> 00:57:48,574
the Amazon Boxwood plant where

1973
00:57:50,357 --> 00:57:50,607
the comparable property approach

1974
00:57:52,257 --> 00:57:52,507
was not used but it probably

1975
00:57:52,824 --> 00:57:53,074
shouldn't have been.

1976
00:57:54,357 --> 00:57:54,607
So,

1977
00:57:56,491 --> 00:57:56,741
on, in, in your

1978
00:58:00,424 --> 00:58:00,674
You're right. Sorry, go ahead.

1979
00:58:04,524 --> 00:58:04,774
So you're right on that. Um, so

1980
00:58:06,491 --> 00:58:06,741
some of the, and getting a

1981
00:58:08,291 --> 00:58:08,541
little more detailed on that

1982
00:58:08,957 --> 00:58:09,207
residential property.

1983
00:58:12,224 --> 00:58:12,474
Typically a single family home,

1984
00:58:14,291 --> 00:58:14,541
you're not some people buy them

1985
00:58:16,257 --> 00:58:16,507
to rent them, and so you could

1986
00:58:18,324 --> 00:58:18,574
use an income approach, but

1987
00:58:20,357 --> 00:58:20,607
yeah, most of the time you're

1988
00:58:22,324 --> 00:58:22,574
going to use a a market approach

1989
00:58:24,457 --> 00:58:24,707
or a sales approach and a, a

1990
00:58:26,324 --> 00:58:26,574
cost approach. Those are the

1991
00:58:28,357 --> 00:58:28,607
most common approaches to use on

1992
00:58:30,257 --> 00:58:30,507
a residential property, and then

1993
00:58:32,424 --> 00:58:32,674
on commercial property, um, you

1994
00:58:34,391 --> 00:58:34,641
know, you do see sales approach

1995
00:58:35,057 --> 00:58:35,307
use.

1996
00:58:38,191 --> 00:58:38,441
Rarely, but it's, it's hard to

1997
00:58:38,824 --> 00:58:39,074
do because you don't have a lot

1998
00:58:42,291 --> 00:58:42,541
of sales generally and to do a

1999
00:58:44,191 --> 00:58:44,441
mass appraisal and do some kind

2000
00:58:46,324 --> 00:58:46,574
of regression analysis or a mass

2001
00:58:48,324 --> 00:58:48,574
kind of evaluation model on

2002
00:58:50,324 --> 00:58:50,574
sales. A lot of times you just

2003
00:58:51,024 --> 00:58:51,274
don't have the sales data,

2004
00:58:52,657 --> 00:58:52,907
enough sales of, of, say, an

2005
00:58:56,224 --> 00:58:56,474
Amazon warehouse facility to

2006
00:58:56,791 --> 00:58:57,041
come up with a mass appraisal

2007
00:59:00,357 --> 00:59:00,607
model sales model, and so, yeah,

2008
00:59:02,357 --> 00:59:02,607
a lot of times they'll use costs

2009
00:59:03,091 --> 00:59:03,341
and income on those, and then

2010
00:59:04,391 --> 00:59:04,641
they'll, they'll kind of verify

2011
00:59:05,091 --> 00:59:05,341
it or check.

2012
00:59:06,424 --> 00:59:06,674
With the sales, so.

2013
00:59:10,291 --> 00:59:10,541
So is that being changed moving

2014
00:59:10,924 --> 00:59:11,174
forward though? It's a federal

2015
00:59:11,624 --> 00:59:11,874
guideline.

2016
00:59:14,424 --> 00:59:14,674
So in other words, if there,

2017
00:59:16,524 --> 00:59:16,774
it's a federal guideline for

2018
00:59:17,124 --> 00:59:17,374
mass appraisals.

2019
00:59:18,657 --> 00:59:18,907
Um, the problem is.

2020
00:59:24,191 --> 00:59:24,441
If you were to contact an

2021
00:59:26,424 --> 00:59:26,674
appraiser to appraise that

2022
00:59:28,324 --> 00:59:28,574
Amazon plan. They would

2023
00:59:30,224 --> 00:59:30,474
oftentimes use all three

2024
00:59:30,791 --> 00:59:31,041
approaches for an individual

2025
00:59:32,524 --> 00:59:32,774
appraisal, which would be pretty

2026
00:59:34,591 --> 00:59:34,841
standard, but for a mass

2027
00:59:36,457 --> 00:59:36,707
appraisal, the federal standard

2028
00:59:38,557 --> 00:59:38,807
is to not use a sales approach.

2029
00:59:40,391 --> 00:59:40,641
The biggest problem with that is

2030
00:59:42,557 --> 00:59:42,807
the sales approach is the most

2031
00:59:43,257 --> 00:59:43,507
reliable.

2032
00:59:44,591 --> 00:59:44,841
Uh, indicator of value.

2033
00:59:48,157 --> 00:59:48,407
And so when we're talking about

2034
00:59:50,291 --> 00:59:50,541
individual properties like that

2035
00:59:50,991 --> 00:59:51,241
property.

2036
00:59:52,491 --> 00:59:52,741
becomes problematic when using a

2037
00:59:54,457 --> 00:59:54,707
mass approach. Now, if you're

2038
00:59:56,557 --> 00:59:56,807
asking me if for large

2039
00:59:58,357 --> 00:59:58,607
properties like that, if you

2040
01:00:02,257 --> 01:00:02,507
could bypass the mass appraisal

2041
01:00:04,291 --> 01:00:04,541
standards that are federal and

2042
01:00:04,957 --> 01:00:05,207
go and say, hey, this one in

2043
01:00:06,624 --> 01:00:06,874
particular or with properties

2044
01:00:10,257 --> 01:00:10,507
that go way up or way down in

2045
01:00:12,491 --> 01:00:12,741
value to use a third approach to

2046
01:00:13,191 --> 01:00:13,441
try and better assess.

2047
01:00:16,191 --> 01:00:16,441
I don't know the answer. I don't

2048
01:00:18,224 --> 01:00:18,474
know if you can do that by

2049
01:00:18,824 --> 01:00:19,074
federal standards. It would be

2050
01:00:20,457 --> 01:00:20,707
something that we could explore

2051
01:00:22,424 --> 01:00:22,674
Justin might have a better

2052
01:00:22,991 --> 01:00:23,241
understanding than that, than I

2053
01:00:24,591 --> 01:00:24,841
do. Yeah, some something that's

2054
01:00:26,424 --> 01:00:26,674
not part of this working group

2055
01:00:28,457 --> 01:00:28,707
necessarily, but I would like to

2056
01:00:30,357 --> 01:00:30,607
further explore with uh like New

2057
01:00:31,057 --> 01:00:31,307
Castle County is like those

2058
01:00:32,524 --> 01:00:32,774
commercial properties that are

2059
01:00:34,624 --> 01:00:34,874
being um quality checked now. It

2060
01:00:36,491 --> 01:00:36,741
would be nice to see like what

2061
01:00:38,591 --> 01:00:38,841
ended up being the indicator?

2062
01:00:40,391 --> 01:00:40,641
Was it like, oh yeah, we did

2063
01:00:42,491 --> 01:00:42,741
these quality checks on these 50

2064
01:00:43,157 --> 01:00:43,407
properties and it was most of

2065
01:00:43,757 --> 01:00:44,007
the time.

2066
01:00:46,391 --> 01:00:46,641
The approach or it was most of

2067
01:00:48,457 --> 01:00:48,707
the time like what went wrong

2068
01:00:52,257 --> 01:00:52,507
with those is to be able to, you

2069
01:00:52,957 --> 01:00:53,207
know, move forward and not have

2070
01:00:54,457 --> 01:00:54,707
that happen again for a lot of,

2071
01:00:55,124 --> 01:00:55,374
them, I think, and it's

2072
01:00:56,324 --> 01:00:56,574
something we've talked about for

2073
01:00:56,957 --> 01:00:57,207
a lot of them, and again, I

2074
01:00:58,357 --> 01:00:58,607
don't, I'm not, I don't wanna

2075
01:01:00,391 --> 01:01:00,641
point fingers. The lack of

2076
01:01:02,357 --> 01:01:02,607
permits is a big deal, um,

2077
01:01:02,924 --> 01:01:03,174
because if you're taking the

2078
01:01:04,491 --> 01:01:04,741
property through the, the New

2079
01:01:06,391 --> 01:01:06,641
Castle County property card, and

2080
01:01:08,257 --> 01:01:08,507
that, and that's what Tyler is

2081
01:01:08,891 --> 01:01:09,141
using as the basis of the

2082
01:01:10,257 --> 01:01:10,507
property and that New Castle

2083
01:01:12,391 --> 01:01:12,641
County property card does not

2084
01:01:13,057 --> 01:01:13,307
have the permits for a building

2085
01:01:13,791 --> 01:01:14,041
on it.

2086
01:01:16,457 --> 01:01:16,707
Then Tyler's going to assess it

2087
01:01:17,157 --> 01:01:17,407
at land.

2088
01:01:20,224 --> 01:01:20,474
And if it's assessive land, the

2089
01:01:20,857 --> 01:01:21,107
value is going to be

2090
01:01:21,357 --> 01:01:21,607
considerably lower.

2091
01:01:24,524 --> 01:01:24,774
Um, there is an appeals process

2092
01:01:28,257 --> 01:01:28,507
for getting the properties that

2093
01:01:30,224 --> 01:01:30,474
are overassessed down to a

2094
01:01:32,224 --> 01:01:32,474
proper assessment, but we didn't

2095
01:01:34,224 --> 01:01:34,474
really have a process this time

2096
01:01:34,924 --> 01:01:35,174
around for getting properties

2097
01:01:36,357 --> 01:01:36,607
that were way under assessed

2098
01:01:36,991 --> 01:01:37,241
into a fair assessment.

2099
01:01:40,457 --> 01:01:40,707
Um, and situations like that,

2100
01:01:42,324 --> 01:01:42,574
and, you know, when I was

2101
01:01:44,324 --> 01:01:44,574
talking to appraisers, uh, they

2102
01:01:46,224 --> 01:01:46,474
would provide examples of New

2103
01:01:46,891 --> 01:01:47,141
Castle County, in particular,

2104
01:01:48,391 --> 01:01:48,641
New CAT scanning, again, I'm

2105
01:01:49,091 --> 01:01:49,341
not, not picking on, on you guys

2106
01:01:50,257 --> 01:01:50,507
in particular, but.

2107
01:01:50,724 --> 01:01:50,974
Where you have

2108
01:01:56,224 --> 01:01:56,474
Only 2 of 3 existing buildings

2109
01:01:56,891 --> 01:01:57,141
on the property that were

2110
01:01:57,424 --> 01:01:57,674
assessed and things like that.

2111
01:01:58,424 --> 01:01:58,674
Um,

2112
01:02:00,524 --> 01:02:00,774
Doesn't matter which approach

2113
01:02:02,457 --> 01:02:02,707
you take there, you're going to

2114
01:02:04,291 --> 01:02:04,541
get a, a faulty value. Are you

2115
01:02:04,957 --> 01:02:05,207
getting the permit data now?

2116
01:02:06,257 --> 01:02:06,507
For

2117
01:02:08,491 --> 01:02:08,741
From the cities, yes, we are.

2118
01:02:12,191 --> 01:02:12,441
Mhm thank you. OK.

2119
01:02:14,324 --> 01:02:14,574
Uh, yes, right. Given this

2120
01:02:16,224 --> 01:02:16,474
mention of permanence, I've got

2121
01:02:16,924 --> 01:02:17,174
a question relating to that.

2122
01:02:18,257 --> 01:02:18,507
And

2123
01:02:18,507 --> 01:02:18,757
and that is.

2124
01:02:22,491 --> 01:02:22,741
To what extent would having the

2125
01:02:24,257 --> 01:02:24,507
permit

2126
01:02:24,507 --> 01:02:24,757
information.

2127
01:02:28,424 --> 01:02:28,674
Provide the accurate information

2128
01:02:30,391 --> 01:02:30,641
for who'sever doing the master

2129
01:02:31,024 --> 01:02:31,274
reassessment for.

2130
01:02:34,524 --> 01:02:34,774
Renovations within buildings and

2131
01:02:36,257 --> 01:02:36,507
small things. So as I understand

2132
01:02:38,457 --> 01:02:38,707
a permit that someone has to get

2133
01:02:40,424 --> 01:02:40,674
to add a building to the

2134
01:02:42,557 --> 01:02:42,807
property would be really useful

2135
01:02:44,491 --> 01:02:44,741
information. But again, going

2136
01:02:46,224 --> 01:02:46,474
back to the problem that

2137
01:02:46,824 --> 01:02:47,074
apparently occurred in

2138
01:02:48,357 --> 01:02:48,607
Wilmington for the Tyler report

2139
01:02:54,324 --> 01:02:54,574
where some homes were renovated

2140
01:02:56,357 --> 01:02:56,607
inside but not outside, so

2141
01:02:58,257 --> 01:02:58,507
Tyler's people walking through

2142
01:02:58,857 --> 01:02:59,107
couldn't see what happened.

2143
01:03:02,257 --> 01:03:02,507
We're if the law is being

2144
01:03:02,791 --> 01:03:03,041
followed, are permits required

2145
01:03:03,491 --> 01:03:03,741
for small jobs?

2146
01:03:06,524 --> 01:03:06,774
In houses that in residences

2147
01:03:07,091 --> 01:03:07,341
that improve their value.

2148
01:03:10,491 --> 01:03:10,741
Yeah every municipality and city

2149
01:03:11,157 --> 01:03:11,407
has their own permitting.

2150
01:03:14,424 --> 01:03:14,674
Process. So, um, City of

2151
01:03:16,257 --> 01:03:16,507
Process. So, um, Sydney

2152
01:03:16,724 --> 01:03:16,974
Wilmington, for example, has

2153
01:03:17,291 --> 01:03:17,541
their own.

2154
01:03:20,291 --> 01:03:20,541
And we rely on their permitting

2155
01:03:20,957 --> 01:03:21,207
process. So, um,

2156
01:03:24,524 --> 01:03:24,774
Now we're receiving every single

2157
01:03:25,257 --> 01:03:25,507
permit that they.

2158
01:03:28,324 --> 01:03:28,574
Approved or really we're looking

2159
01:03:30,191 --> 01:03:30,441
for certificates of occupancy.

2160
01:03:30,891 --> 01:03:31,141
That's the, that's the critical

2161
01:03:32,524 --> 01:03:32,774
piece for us. But for maybe you

2162
01:03:34,224 --> 01:03:34,474
don't know the answer, but for

2163
01:03:36,357 --> 01:03:36,607
example, if I decided I wanted

2164
01:03:38,491 --> 01:03:38,741
to renovate my kitchen, and I

2165
01:03:40,457 --> 01:03:40,707
could spend a whole bunch of

2166
01:03:42,191 --> 01:03:42,441
money on that, and it would

2167
01:03:42,824 --> 01:03:43,074
increase the value of the house.

2168
01:03:44,224 --> 01:03:44,474
Would,

2169
01:03:46,324 --> 01:03:46,574
would I have in throughout the

2170
01:03:48,357 --> 01:03:48,607
state what I, I have had to get

2171
01:03:50,524 --> 01:03:50,774
a permit so I'd be permitted to

2172
01:03:52,391 --> 01:03:52,641
do that, or could I just hire a

2173
01:03:54,357 --> 01:03:54,607
contractor who could do that

2174
01:03:54,957 --> 01:03:55,207
without getting a permit because

2175
01:03:55,657 --> 01:03:55,907
you don't need a.

2176
01:03:58,257 --> 01:03:58,507
Permit for that kind of internal

2177
01:03:58,891 --> 01:03:59,141
work. I think it depends on the

2178
01:04:00,291 --> 01:04:00,541
type of work being done to the

2179
01:04:02,191 --> 01:04:02,441
kitchen. We're primarily looking

2180
01:04:04,324 --> 01:04:04,574
at um gross square footage. So

2181
01:04:04,957 --> 01:04:05,207
if you're enlarging your

2182
01:04:06,424 --> 01:04:06,674
kitchen, that would have an

2183
01:04:08,291 --> 01:04:08,541
obvious impact on the assessed

2184
01:04:08,991 --> 01:04:09,241
value of your property since

2185
01:04:10,557 --> 01:04:10,807
your property value is going up.

2186
01:04:12,491 --> 01:04:12,741
If you're simply replacing

2187
01:04:14,524 --> 01:04:14,774
cabinet for cabinet, it may not

2188
01:04:15,191 --> 01:04:15,441
necessarily have a large impact

2189
01:04:16,624 --> 01:04:16,874
or any at all on us. I asked

2190
01:04:18,557 --> 01:04:18,807
because I'm thinking of my, I

2191
01:04:20,524 --> 01:04:20,774
heard my neighbor who has a big

2192
01:04:22,457 --> 01:04:22,707
house, but they spent $40,000

2193
01:04:23,091 --> 01:04:23,341
renovating their kitchen.

2194
01:04:26,391 --> 01:04:26,641
Didn't make it any bigger. They

2195
01:04:26,991 --> 01:04:27,241
just made it way nicer.

2196
01:04:30,291 --> 01:04:30,541
And I, I, you know, if you'd

2197
01:04:32,191 --> 01:04:32,441
think that would have increased

2198
01:04:32,824 --> 01:04:33,074
the value of a house by a lot.

2199
01:04:34,391 --> 01:04:34,641
We don't. We don't go inside,

2200
01:04:36,224 --> 01:04:36,474
correct.

2201
01:04:36,524 --> 01:04:36,774
Yeah, it's not a true appraisal.

2202
01:04:38,424 --> 01:04:38,674
It's an assessment. Yeah, yeah.

2203
01:04:40,491 --> 01:04:40,741
let me, let me answer the

2204
01:04:42,491 --> 01:04:42,741
question just a bit. So again

2205
01:04:44,257 --> 01:04:44,507
it's, it's the difference

2206
01:04:44,857 --> 01:04:45,107
between an appraisal and

2207
01:04:46,257 --> 01:04:46,507
assessment, right? And it's a

2208
01:04:46,891 --> 01:04:47,141
bit. So again it's, it's the

2209
01:04:47,491 --> 01:04:47,741
difference between an appraisal

2210
01:04:48,157 --> 01:04:48,407
and assessment, right? And it's

2211
01:04:48,891 --> 01:04:49,141
the difference between a mass

2212
01:04:49,491 --> 01:04:49,741
appraisal and an individual

2213
01:04:50,357 --> 01:04:50,607
appraisal, an individual

2214
01:04:52,324 --> 01:04:52,574
appraisal on the same house

2215
01:04:54,224 --> 01:04:54,474
you're talking about, by

2216
01:04:56,257 --> 01:04:56,507
necessity, I have to go examine

2217
01:04:56,891 --> 01:04:57,141
the house and base the opinion

2218
01:04:57,491 --> 01:04:57,741
of value on my.

2219
01:05:00,391 --> 01:05:00,641
Personal inspection of the house

2220
01:05:02,391 --> 01:05:02,641
on a mass appraisal, by

2221
01:05:04,224 --> 01:05:04,474
definition, it's not gonna be

2222
01:05:06,257 --> 01:05:06,507
anywhere near as accurate as

2223
01:05:06,891 --> 01:05:07,141
what you're talking about

2224
01:05:08,424 --> 01:05:08,674
because they're gonna take a

2225
01:05:10,524 --> 01:05:10,774
block of houses and house at the

2226
01:05:12,257 --> 01:05:12,507
beginning of the street, house

2227
01:05:12,924 --> 01:05:13,174
at the end of the street are

2228
01:05:14,491 --> 01:05:14,741
going to look exactly the same

2229
01:05:16,457 --> 01:05:16,707
from a satellite, but unless

2230
01:05:18,357 --> 01:05:18,607
we're talking about personal

2231
01:05:20,224 --> 01:05:20,474
inspections going in, because

2232
01:05:22,224 --> 01:05:22,474
the opposite is also true. A

2233
01:05:22,824 --> 01:05:23,074
house could look fine on the

2234
01:05:24,624 --> 01:05:24,874
outside and have no floorboards

2235
01:05:26,524 --> 01:05:26,774
on the inside, and a mass

2236
01:05:27,091 --> 01:05:27,341
appraisal is not going to know

2237
01:05:27,791 --> 01:05:28,041
that.

2238
01:05:28,691 --> 01:05:28,941
And unless we're talking about.

2239
01:05:32,357 --> 01:05:32,607
Assessing each individual

2240
01:05:32,957 --> 01:05:33,207
property with a personal

2241
01:05:36,224 --> 01:05:36,474
inspection, we've got at least

2242
01:05:36,857 --> 01:05:37,107
to some degree accept the

2243
01:05:37,357 --> 01:05:37,607
limitations of.

2244
01:05:40,524 --> 01:05:40,774
And what concerns me about that,

2245
01:05:42,291 --> 01:05:42,541
and this may have been the

2246
01:05:44,257 --> 01:05:44,507
problem that generated a lot of

2247
01:05:44,991 --> 01:05:45,241
the noise from Wilmington is.

2248
01:05:48,357 --> 01:05:48,607
You, you know, again, if let's

2249
01:05:50,324 --> 01:05:50,574
take my block for example with

2250
01:05:51,024 --> 01:05:51,274
the 8 houses on it.

2251
01:05:54,391 --> 01:05:54,641
If my neighbor spent 40,000

2252
01:05:56,391 --> 01:05:56,641
renovating or a developer came

2253
01:05:58,224 --> 01:05:58,474
in and renovated the inside of

2254
01:05:58,824 --> 01:05:59,074
the house and made it a lot

2255
01:06:00,457 --> 01:06:00,707
nicer, and it's, and then sells

2256
01:06:02,357 --> 01:06:02,607
it, so it's the only.

2257
01:06:04,691 --> 01:06:04,941
House on the block.

2258
01:06:06,257 --> 01:06:06,507
That sells.

2259
01:06:08,391 --> 01:06:08,641
It's going to give a false.

2260
01:06:12,224 --> 01:06:12,474
Impression of what houses in

2261
01:06:14,191 --> 01:06:14,441
that neighborhood are worse, and

2262
01:06:16,191 --> 01:06:16,441
I, and I'm thinking the, the

2263
01:06:18,324 --> 01:06:18,574
process that we suggest has to

2264
01:06:20,224 --> 01:06:20,474
deal with that. Well, so that

2265
01:06:20,824 --> 01:06:21,074
people won't in effect get hurt

2266
01:06:21,557 --> 01:06:21,807
because

2267
01:06:24,357 --> 01:06:24,607
But but the the opposite is also

2268
01:06:26,224 --> 01:06:26,474
true though. The opposite is

2269
01:06:28,257 --> 01:06:28,507
also true. If that same house,

2270
01:06:30,291 --> 01:06:30,541
that same town home block, for

2271
01:06:32,491 --> 01:06:32,741
example, one house was sold as a

2272
01:06:34,457 --> 01:06:34,707
project home, a home that was

2273
01:06:36,457 --> 01:06:36,707
heavily dilapidated, and it's

2274
01:06:38,357 --> 01:06:38,607
the only one in that town home

2275
01:06:40,224 --> 01:06:40,474
block that's sold, then the

2276
01:06:40,791 --> 01:06:41,041
other houses assessments are

2277
01:06:42,491 --> 01:06:42,741
going to be lower as a result of

2278
01:06:46,357 --> 01:06:46,607
cure, um, it is a limitation of

2279
01:06:48,257 --> 01:06:48,507
a massive risk. Yeah, and, and

2280
01:06:48,824 --> 01:06:49,074
what I'm saying is if, if you're

2281
01:06:50,291 --> 01:06:50,541
concerned about fairness.

2282
01:06:52,491 --> 01:06:52,741
That we need to figure out some

2283
01:06:54,257 --> 01:06:54,507
way that

2284
01:06:56,524 --> 01:06:56,774
The people who live on the block

2285
01:07:00,191 --> 01:07:00,441
where there's one project house

2286
01:07:00,891 --> 01:07:01,141
that got sold are being

2287
01:07:04,424 --> 01:07:04,674
Given lower assessed values than

2288
01:07:06,224 --> 01:07:06,474
they should,

2289
01:07:06,491 --> 01:07:06,741
and the people who live in my

2290
01:07:08,557 --> 01:07:08,807
hypothetical neighbor's block,

2291
01:07:12,324 --> 01:07:12,574
getting too much, that's, yeah,

2292
01:07:14,324 --> 01:07:14,574
I think the, the process we

2293
01:07:16,324 --> 01:07:16,574
recommend for legislation needs

2294
01:07:18,424 --> 01:07:18,674
to figure out a way to deal with

2295
01:07:20,457 --> 01:07:20,707
those two problems. One of the

2296
01:07:22,457 --> 01:07:22,707
ways that has happened is

2297
01:07:24,357 --> 01:07:24,607
through the appeals process

2298
01:07:24,991 --> 01:07:25,241
whenever one of my constituents

2299
01:07:25,624 --> 01:07:25,874
has contacted me.

2300
01:07:28,557 --> 01:07:28,807
saying, hey, look, my house was

2301
01:07:30,324 --> 01:07:30,574
assessed at this, it should be

2302
01:07:32,457 --> 01:07:32,707
lower. I've recommended an

2303
01:07:33,057 --> 01:07:33,307
appraisal

2304
01:07:34,557 --> 01:07:34,807
and I have an appraisal and I

2305
01:07:36,391 --> 01:07:36,641
have to disclose that when I

2306
01:07:38,224 --> 01:07:38,474
talk about stitchitus, of

2307
01:07:38,757 --> 01:07:39,007
course, but I'd recommend an

2308
01:07:40,357 --> 01:07:40,607
appraisal because the appraisal

2309
01:07:41,024 --> 01:07:41,274
will go in and say, oh, you

2310
01:07:42,324 --> 01:07:42,574
don't have granite countertops,

2311
01:07:42,957 --> 01:07:43,207
you know, you don't have this,

2312
01:07:44,491 --> 01:07:44,741
you don't have that through

2313
01:07:45,124 --> 01:07:45,374
personal inspection, something

2314
01:07:45,724 --> 01:07:45,974
that.

2315
01:07:46,557 --> 01:07:46,807
Tyler would have a difficult

2316
01:07:47,191 --> 01:07:47,441
time though.

2317
01:07:48,391 --> 01:07:48,641
So,

2318
01:07:54,357 --> 01:07:54,607
I

2319
01:07:58,324 --> 01:07:58,574
Years and years ago implemented

2320
01:08:00,224 --> 01:08:00,474
the city of Wilmington's

2321
01:08:02,391 --> 01:08:02,641
permitting and code system in

2322
01:08:04,424 --> 01:08:04,674
the city of Wilmington as a

2323
01:08:06,224 --> 01:08:06,474
contractor at Diamond

2324
01:08:06,691 --> 01:08:06,941
Technologies, which, which is my

2325
01:08:08,357 --> 01:08:08,607
other job. I designed the

2326
01:08:10,257 --> 01:08:10,507
certificate of occupancy, fun

2327
01:08:10,824 --> 01:08:11,074
fact, um.

2328
01:08:14,324 --> 01:08:14,574
And so there are permits that

2329
01:08:14,991 --> 01:08:15,241
get installed. So if you're

2330
01:08:16,391 --> 01:08:16,641
going to do a big kitchen

2331
01:08:18,191 --> 01:08:18,441
renovation and you have

2332
01:08:18,757 --> 01:08:19,007
electrical work and you have

2333
01:08:20,324 --> 01:08:20,574
maybe the gas line or something

2334
01:08:21,024 --> 01:08:21,274
like that, yes, they do need a

2335
01:08:22,324 --> 01:08:22,574
permit for that. So if

2336
01:08:22,757 --> 01:08:23,007
somebody's just going to go and

2337
01:08:24,357 --> 01:08:24,607
install carpeting or maybe do a

2338
01:08:26,224 --> 01:08:26,474
thing, but if you have like a

2339
01:08:28,257 --> 01:08:28,507
contractor, so in that case, if

2340
01:08:28,924 --> 01:08:29,174
you have a contractor coming

2341
01:08:29,524 --> 01:08:29,774
out, they're going to do that.

2342
01:08:32,691 --> 01:08:32,941
That come and get a permit. What

2343
01:08:34,391 --> 01:08:34,641
I don't recall because it was

2344
01:08:36,257 --> 01:08:36,507
literally like 2008 or something

2345
01:08:38,291 --> 01:08:38,541
like that, 2007 something, um.

2346
01:08:40,557 --> 01:08:40,807
What I don't know is if they do

2347
01:08:42,324 --> 01:08:42,574
that, if they just get a

2348
01:08:44,257 --> 01:08:44,507
complete permit or if there's a,

2349
01:08:46,191 --> 01:08:46,441
I'll find out. Or if they do it

2350
01:08:46,824 --> 01:08:47,074
or if they do another

2351
01:08:48,424 --> 01:08:48,674
certificate of occupancy. I

2352
01:08:50,257 --> 01:08:50,507
would hope though that if

2353
01:08:50,791 --> 01:08:51,041
they're doing the permit, that

2354
01:08:52,591 --> 01:08:52,841
is a data piece because now

2355
01:08:54,391 --> 01:08:54,641
while the city of Wilmington is

2356
01:08:56,457 --> 01:08:56,707
not going to tell you what the

2357
01:08:58,391 --> 01:08:58,641
new assessed value of that

2358
01:08:58,991 --> 01:08:59,241
property is based on that new

2359
01:09:02,257 --> 01:09:02,507
renovated kitchen. They do have

2360
01:09:02,924 --> 01:09:03,174
on the permit application how

2361
01:09:06,391 --> 01:09:06,641
much the contractor was telling

2362
01:09:08,424 --> 01:09:08,674
them that work is. So it does at

2363
01:09:09,124 --> 01:09:09,374
least give them and thank you.

2364
01:09:10,524 --> 01:09:10,774
because it's been a long time

2365
01:09:14,191 --> 01:09:14,441
since I've done this, but, um,

2366
01:09:18,424 --> 01:09:18,674
so they do have that permit data

2367
01:09:20,324 --> 01:09:20,574
as well. New carpeting isn't

2368
01:09:22,257 --> 01:09:22,507
necessarily going to change the

2369
01:09:22,957 --> 01:09:23,207
value of somebody's home. A

2370
01:09:24,457 --> 01:09:24,707
$40,000 20,000 dollars kitchen

2371
01:09:25,124 --> 01:09:25,374
renovation will.

2372
01:09:28,191 --> 01:09:28,441
So I guess the question is, and,

2373
01:09:30,224 --> 01:09:30,474
and this might be for Tyler or

2374
01:09:32,224 --> 01:09:32,474
maybe Justin can answer this is

2375
01:09:32,924 --> 01:09:33,174
if they have a permit.

2376
01:09:34,691 --> 01:09:34,941
Given to the counties that says

2377
01:09:38,291 --> 01:09:38,541
a $40,000 kitchen renovation was

2378
01:09:38,957 --> 01:09:39,207
done.

2379
01:09:42,224 --> 01:09:42,474
For this property, does that

2380
01:09:44,191 --> 01:09:44,441
data point, should that data

2381
01:09:44,824 --> 01:09:45,074
point get loaded in and affect

2382
01:09:46,457 --> 01:09:46,707
the model and how that valuation

2383
01:09:47,124 --> 01:09:47,374
comes out for that property.

2384
01:09:52,257 --> 01:09:52,507
The information, sorry, go

2385
01:09:52,791 --> 01:09:53,041
ahead. Go ahead. No, I want,

2386
01:09:54,524 --> 01:09:54,774
yeah, I, I, you say yes and then

2387
01:09:56,391 --> 01:09:56,641
you say what you were going to

2388
01:09:56,991 --> 01:09:57,241
say, and then we'll go to Susan.

2389
01:09:57,691 --> 01:09:57,941
Go ahead, Justin.

2390
01:09:58,291 --> 01:09:58,541
OK.

2391
01:10:00,491 --> 01:10:00,741
Yeah, I mean, uh, the county

2392
01:10:02,457 --> 01:10:02,707
should be keeping track of that

2393
01:10:04,224 --> 01:10:04,474
information. It's not gonna be

2394
01:10:06,191 --> 01:10:06,441
like a one for one if they spend

2395
01:10:08,324 --> 01:10:08,574
$40,000 on a kitchen renovation

2396
01:10:09,024 --> 01:10:09,274
doesn't mean that.

2397
01:10:10,324 --> 01:10:10,574
You know, it's going to increase

2398
01:10:12,324 --> 01:10:12,574
their value by 40,000 or

2399
01:10:14,291 --> 01:10:14,541
whatever, so, um, they're going

2400
01:10:16,424 --> 01:10:16,674
to have to make, make some sort

2401
01:10:18,324 --> 01:10:18,574
of adjustment in the chemo

2402
01:10:18,891 --> 01:10:19,141
system to affect the value,

2403
01:10:20,557 --> 01:10:20,807
though typically on something

2404
01:10:21,157 --> 01:10:21,407
like that, I would think.

2405
01:10:24,357 --> 01:10:24,607
So are you loading that

2406
01:10:24,891 --> 01:10:25,141
information into the camera

2407
01:10:25,491 --> 01:10:25,741
system?

2408
01:10:28,324 --> 01:10:28,574
We learn stuff like if you

2409
01:10:28,891 --> 01:10:29,141
finish your basement and it was

2410
01:10:30,257 --> 01:10:30,507
an unfinished basement.

2411
01:10:32,357 --> 01:10:32,607
Because that is something that

2412
01:10:33,024 --> 01:10:33,274
would

2413
01:10:34,457 --> 01:10:34,707
Changes the square footage

2414
01:10:36,324 --> 01:10:36,574
changes how you even value that

2415
01:10:37,024 --> 01:10:37,274
basement.

2416
01:10:38,457 --> 01:10:38,707
It was based and it was valued

2417
01:10:40,291 --> 01:10:40,541
as an unfinished basement

2418
01:10:40,824 --> 01:10:41,074
instead at a much lower rate.

2419
01:10:42,391 --> 01:10:42,641
Once you finish it, it's a

2420
01:10:44,324 --> 01:10:44,574
living area now, and that

2421
01:10:46,324 --> 01:10:46,574
changes that. But if you go and

2422
01:10:48,191 --> 01:10:48,441
say only people that get a

2423
01:10:48,757 --> 01:10:49,007
permits gonna get their

2424
01:10:50,391 --> 01:10:50,641
kitchens uh jacked up. What

2425
01:10:52,424 --> 01:10:52,674
about all the other houses in

2426
01:10:54,224 --> 01:10:54,474
that development on the mass

2427
01:10:54,857 --> 01:10:55,107
appraisal that we never went

2428
01:10:56,391 --> 01:10:56,641
inside and sold their kitchen.

2429
01:10:58,224 --> 01:10:58,474
How are we going to defend that?

2430
01:10:58,891 --> 01:10:59,141
I would appeal that if I was the

2431
01:11:00,457 --> 01:11:00,707
constituent knowing what I know

2432
01:11:02,257 --> 01:11:02,507
now, I would come say, how can

2433
01:11:02,957 --> 01:11:03,207
you do that to me if you're not

2434
01:11:03,624 --> 01:11:03,874
gonna.

2435
01:11:06,357 --> 01:11:06,607
Uh, appraise everybody else's

2436
01:11:08,491 --> 01:11:08,741
property versus assets. Now

2437
01:11:10,224 --> 01:11:10,474
we're talking a lot more money.

2438
01:11:10,891 --> 01:11:11,141
Pardon me? Now we're talking a

2439
01:11:12,324 --> 01:11:12,574
lot more money. Yes.

2440
01:11:16,224 --> 01:11:16,474
Staffing, I would expect too

2441
01:11:16,857 --> 01:11:17,107
just when you're when you're

2442
01:11:18,491 --> 01:11:18,741
updating your home, so to the,

2443
01:11:20,424 --> 01:11:20,674
the point they made earlier,

2444
01:11:22,324 --> 01:11:22,574
which is if you've got um you're

2445
01:11:23,091 --> 01:11:23,341
renovating your kitchen and

2446
01:11:24,357 --> 01:11:24,607
you're just putting new cabinets

2447
01:11:26,257 --> 01:11:26,507
in, not just it's expensive,

2448
01:11:26,924 --> 01:11:27,174
right? But you're doing that

2449
01:11:28,491 --> 01:11:28,741
versus you're putting an

2450
01:11:30,224 --> 01:11:30,474
addition on the back or you're

2451
01:11:30,891 --> 01:11:31,141
adding a deck or something with

2452
01:11:32,291 --> 01:11:32,541
actual square footage, it's like

2453
01:11:34,391 --> 01:11:34,641
the volume of those permits that

2454
01:11:36,224 --> 01:11:36,474
are gonna start coming through

2455
01:11:36,857 --> 01:11:37,107
for every time somebody replaces

2456
01:11:38,491 --> 01:11:38,741
the toilet or every time someone

2457
01:11:40,391 --> 01:11:40,641
puts in a new vanity or every

2458
01:11:42,491 --> 01:11:42,741
time you put in like a new set

2459
01:11:43,191 --> 01:11:43,441
of cabinets.

2460
01:11:46,224 --> 01:11:46,474
You know, again, different than

2461
01:11:46,857 --> 01:11:47,107
like I'm moving the electric and

2462
01:11:48,291 --> 01:11:48,541
the gas and something might blow

2463
01:11:50,191 --> 01:11:50,441
up the house or tap into your

2464
01:11:50,791 --> 01:11:51,041
system or whatever it is. I

2465
01:11:51,391 --> 01:11:51,641
don't, I don't know how it

2466
01:11:52,324 --> 01:11:52,574
works. I'm an expert, but I've

2467
01:11:54,224 --> 01:11:54,474
had some stuff done to my home,

2468
01:11:54,924 --> 01:11:55,174
and I, you know, I live in a

2469
01:11:55,557 --> 01:11:55,807
very old neighborhood, um.

2470
01:11:58,391 --> 01:11:58,641
Where truly like everyone who

2471
01:12:00,224 --> 01:12:00,474
lives in the house has done

2472
01:12:00,824 --> 01:12:01,074
something different.

2473
01:12:02,324 --> 01:12:02,574
Maybe you all started out as

2474
01:12:02,991 --> 01:12:03,241
like a cookie cutter shape, but

2475
01:12:04,324 --> 01:12:04,574
like by the time it's like 80

2476
01:12:06,257 --> 01:12:06,507
years old, they're all different

2477
01:12:06,991 --> 01:12:07,241
on the inside, but I would, I

2478
01:12:08,457 --> 01:12:08,707
would think as, as someone who

2479
01:12:10,357 --> 01:12:10,607
represents just a general

2480
01:12:12,491 --> 01:12:12,741
administrative office like when

2481
01:12:14,224 --> 01:12:14,474
you do something like that, if

2482
01:12:14,824 --> 01:12:15,074
that's a recommendation that's

2483
01:12:16,424 --> 01:12:16,674
to come, I would, I would

2484
01:12:18,624 --> 01:12:18,874
certainly, uh, wonder what the

2485
01:12:20,524 --> 01:12:20,774
volume of that is and what the

2486
01:12:24,191 --> 01:12:24,441
staffing would look like on the

2487
01:12:26,524 --> 01:12:26,774
other side to properly manage

2488
01:12:28,524 --> 01:12:28,774
that. Plus, the counties and the

2489
01:12:30,324 --> 01:12:30,574
cities, the municipalities are.

2490
01:12:32,591 --> 01:12:32,841
Not universal in their code that

2491
01:12:34,424 --> 01:12:34,674
requires a building permit. So

2492
01:12:36,224 --> 01:12:36,474
you could be in one area that

2493
01:12:38,191 --> 01:12:38,441
doesn't require that and another

2494
01:12:40,257 --> 01:12:40,507
area that does. So and I I guess

2495
01:12:40,924 --> 01:12:41,174
I'm not thinking of a people

2496
01:12:42,591 --> 01:12:42,841
value or people effort. I'm

2497
01:12:43,191 --> 01:12:43,441
thinking of it just.

2498
01:12:46,257 --> 01:12:46,507
Being a data point within the

2499
01:12:46,891 --> 01:12:47,141
model that generates.

2500
01:12:52,324 --> 01:12:52,574
The, the valuation, but David, I

2501
01:12:53,057 --> 01:12:53,307
feel like you want to say

2502
01:12:53,624 --> 01:12:53,874
something.

2503
01:12:54,391 --> 01:12:54,641
Sorry, my brain is spinning

2504
01:12:56,324 --> 01:12:56,574
right now. Um, yeah, it, it's

2505
01:13:00,191 --> 01:13:00,441
If we want this to be 110%

2506
01:13:00,791 --> 01:13:01,041
correct.

2507
01:13:04,191 --> 01:13:04,441
We have to throw 100s of people

2508
01:13:04,891 --> 01:13:05,141
and millions of dollars at it,

2509
01:13:06,291 --> 01:13:06,541
And

2510
01:13:08,457 --> 01:13:08,707
Exactly, it, it almost recall

2511
01:13:10,357 --> 01:13:10,607
requires knocking on every door,

2512
01:13:12,224 --> 01:13:12,474
walking through every property,

2513
01:13:12,924 --> 01:13:13,174
going through every floor,

2514
01:13:14,624 --> 01:13:14,874
counting every piece of crown

2515
01:13:18,224 --> 01:13:18,474
molding, carpets, new kitchen

2516
01:13:18,824 --> 01:13:19,074
cabinets. What, what's the,

2517
01:13:20,424 --> 01:13:20,674
what's the level where we say

2518
01:13:20,991 --> 01:13:21,241
that's enough?

2519
01:13:22,591 --> 01:13:22,841
And where is the level where,

2520
01:13:24,591 --> 01:13:24,841
like, um, Susan said, we have an

2521
01:13:26,524 --> 01:13:26,774
appeal process, or I'm sorry,

2522
01:13:28,491 --> 01:13:28,741
Representative Steve Steven so

2523
01:13:30,224 --> 01:13:30,474
we have an appeal process for

2524
01:13:32,224 --> 01:13:32,474
all this. So if there's one

2525
01:13:32,891 --> 01:13:33,141
outlier on a block or a couple

2526
01:13:34,391 --> 01:13:34,641
of outliers in the neighborhood,

2527
01:13:36,357 --> 01:13:36,607
they can appeal and they can go

2528
01:13:38,291 --> 01:13:38,541
through the process to have that

2529
01:13:40,424 --> 01:13:40,674
looked at individually, but for

2530
01:13:42,391 --> 01:13:42,641
us to go through

2531
01:13:44,591 --> 01:13:44,841
um an individual appraisal

2532
01:13:46,257 --> 01:13:46,507
versus a mass assessment.

2533
01:13:48,657 --> 01:13:48,907
It is monumentally costly and,

2534
01:13:49,357 --> 01:13:49,607
and.

2535
01:13:52,291 --> 01:13:52,541
I agree. I just don't understand

2536
01:13:54,191 --> 01:13:54,441
why you have to. It's just data.

2537
01:13:54,891 --> 01:13:55,141
I don't understand why the

2538
01:13:56,224 --> 01:13:56,474
system can't do it. Like I'm

2539
01:13:58,491 --> 01:13:58,741
just, my mind is like, why can't

2540
01:14:00,491 --> 01:14:00,741
the technology do it for you?

2541
01:14:02,424 --> 01:14:02,674
It's like it's still, I'm sorry,

2542
01:14:06,224 --> 01:14:06,474
if you had a $40,000 permit that

2543
01:14:06,924 --> 01:14:07,174
only has an appraised value of

2544
01:14:08,491 --> 01:14:08,741
10,000 because you decided to

2545
01:14:09,091 --> 01:14:09,341
get

2546
01:14:12,224 --> 01:14:12,474
The top notch or a contractor

2547
01:14:12,857 --> 01:14:13,107
that costs a lot more, but yet

2548
01:14:14,224 --> 01:14:14,474
the appraised value is only

2549
01:14:14,824 --> 01:14:15,074
going to.

2550
01:14:16,657 --> 01:14:16,907
Make it 10, you can't just do it

2551
01:14:18,424 --> 01:14:18,674
on your desktop. How would you

2552
01:14:20,457 --> 01:14:20,707
know that that, you know, just

2553
01:14:22,424 --> 01:14:22,674
from that uh, that's my opinion.

2554
01:14:24,257 --> 01:14:24,507
yeah, and, and think, hey, what

2555
01:14:24,924 --> 01:14:25,174
if, what if people do it on

2556
01:14:26,424 --> 01:14:26,674
their own? I mean, I don't need

2557
01:14:28,324 --> 01:14:28,574
necessarily a permit to do new

2558
01:14:30,257 --> 01:14:30,507
cabinets on my house, but that

2559
01:14:30,924 --> 01:14:31,174
could have an effect on the

2560
01:14:31,524 --> 01:14:31,774
appraised value.

2561
01:14:36,224 --> 01:14:36,474
Um, if I'm a handy person, which

2562
01:14:36,957 --> 01:14:37,207
believe me I'm not, but if I was

2563
01:14:38,424 --> 01:14:38,674
a handy person, I could do all

2564
01:14:40,357 --> 01:14:40,607
sorts of work in my house that I

2565
01:14:42,324 --> 01:14:42,574
wouldn't necessarily need a

2566
01:14:42,891 --> 01:14:43,141
permit for.

2567
01:14:46,291 --> 01:14:46,541
Um, and by the way, um, each

2568
01:14:48,257 --> 01:14:48,507
appraisal, for me to appraise a

2569
01:14:48,924 --> 01:14:49,174
single family house.

2570
01:14:52,324 --> 01:14:52,574
is roughly around 8 hours of

2571
01:14:54,457 --> 01:14:54,707
work, 8 to 10 hours of work for

2572
01:14:56,257 --> 01:14:56,507
just one approach per house.

2573
01:14:58,457 --> 01:14:58,707
Multiply that by

2574
01:15:00,357 --> 01:15:00,607
You know, New Castle County,

2575
01:15:02,524 --> 01:15:02,774
we're looking at 175,000

2576
01:15:04,357 --> 01:15:04,607
multiply that by the man hours

2577
01:15:05,057 --> 01:15:05,307
you need.

2578
01:15:05,307 --> 01:15:05,557
Who?

2579
01:15:08,457 --> 01:15:08,707
That's a lot of money.

2580
01:15:10,457 --> 01:15:10,707
I, I, I think, I think what you

2581
01:15:12,457 --> 01:15:12,707
have to do, unfortunately I

2582
01:15:14,457 --> 01:15:14,707
think we have to is obviously

2583
01:15:16,291 --> 01:15:16,541
the appeals process for houses

2584
01:15:18,524 --> 01:15:18,774
that are, are assessed too high,

2585
01:15:20,491 --> 01:15:20,741
some sort of process for

2586
01:15:22,391 --> 01:15:22,641
properties that are assessed too

2587
01:15:24,457 --> 01:15:24,707
low, and then I honestly think

2588
01:15:26,324 --> 01:15:26,574
the only way to do this is just

2589
01:15:27,024 --> 01:15:27,274
to accept the limitations of a

2590
01:15:27,724 --> 01:15:27,974
mass appraisal.

2591
01:15:28,457 --> 01:15:28,707
Amen.

2592
01:15:32,391 --> 01:15:32,641
I guess unfortunately agree with

2593
01:15:33,124 --> 01:15:33,374
I guess unfortunately I agree

2594
01:15:33,691 --> 01:15:33,941
with that,

2595
01:15:34,424 --> 01:15:34,674
Rebecca and then Justin, but one

2596
01:15:36,291 --> 01:15:36,541
of the things we keep talking

2597
01:15:36,857 --> 01:15:37,107
about is like the gift within

2598
01:15:38,224 --> 01:15:38,474
reason, right? There's a

2599
01:15:38,724 --> 01:15:38,974
reasonable range, and I don't

2600
01:15:40,424 --> 01:15:40,674
know what the industry standard

2601
01:15:42,357 --> 01:15:42,607
is for a reasonable range, but

2602
01:15:44,191 --> 01:15:44,441
it's like if you're not perfect,

2603
01:15:44,857 --> 01:15:45,107
you're at like low or high or

2604
01:15:46,591 --> 01:15:46,841
whatever else like is that 5%,

2605
01:15:48,457 --> 01:15:48,707
10%, like what, what is there,

2606
01:15:50,557 --> 01:15:50,807
is there a definition of what a

2607
01:15:52,557 --> 01:15:52,807
reasonable range is. Uh.

2608
01:15:56,424 --> 01:15:56,674
There is a definition, just

2609
01:15:58,224 --> 01:15:58,474
correct me if I'm wrong here,

2610
01:16:00,291 --> 01:16:00,541
there is a definition for what

2611
01:16:02,357 --> 01:16:02,607
is kind of an within reason for

2612
01:16:04,391 --> 01:16:04,641
a mass appraisal in a property,

2613
01:16:06,457 --> 01:16:06,707
but I don't think it's for

2614
01:16:08,391 --> 01:16:08,641
property though. I think it's

2615
01:16:10,391 --> 01:16:10,641
for the countywide or the

2616
01:16:12,357 --> 01:16:12,607
assessed area wide.

2617
01:16:16,324 --> 01:16:16,574
Um, so to your point, I think

2618
01:16:16,891 --> 01:16:17,141
where you need to

2619
01:16:20,191 --> 01:16:20,441
Where you, where this would need

2620
01:16:22,424 --> 01:16:22,674
to fall was in the quality check

2621
01:16:24,324 --> 01:16:24,574
part of it that if you do have a

2622
01:16:26,391 --> 01:16:26,641
bunch of properties that go up

2623
01:16:28,324 --> 01:16:28,574
in value or down in value of

2624
01:16:30,591 --> 01:16:30,841
more than 1%, there needs to be

2625
01:16:32,524 --> 01:16:32,774
a check at the county level as

2626
01:16:34,591 --> 01:16:34,841
to why

2627
01:16:36,424 --> 01:16:36,674
they went up and down and was

2628
01:16:38,224 --> 01:16:38,474
there an addition to the right,

2629
01:16:38,924 --> 01:16:39,174
Yeah, exactly. I mean, a lot of

2630
01:16:40,491 --> 01:16:40,741
the calls I got in Kent County

2631
01:16:42,391 --> 01:16:42,641
were from people who said, oh my

2632
01:16:44,524 --> 01:16:44,774
gosh, my assessment tripled. OK,

2633
01:16:46,224 --> 01:16:46,474
well let's go back. How long

2634
01:16:46,891 --> 01:16:47,141
have you had your house? I

2635
01:16:47,524 --> 01:16:47,774
bought my house in 19.

2636
01:16:48,357 --> 01:16:48,607
OK, well, let's start there.

2637
01:16:48,924 --> 01:16:49,174
That's.

2638
01:16:52,224 --> 01:16:52,474
Yes, the assessment is going to

2639
01:16:52,857 --> 01:16:53,107
go up. Have you done anything?

2640
01:16:54,324 --> 01:16:54,574
Yes, I put up a pole barn and a

2641
01:16:56,191 --> 01:16:56,441
pool with no permits and a

2642
01:16:56,824 --> 01:16:57,074
fence. Well,

2643
01:16:58,524 --> 01:16:58,774
yeah, I got bad news for you.

2644
01:16:59,224 --> 01:16:59,474
Um,

2645
01:17:02,491 --> 01:17:02,741
But and but the county needs to

2646
01:17:06,191 --> 01:17:06,441
be able to meet, and I don't

2647
01:17:06,757 --> 01:17:07,007
know if this is a state thing or

2648
01:17:08,324 --> 01:17:08,574
a county and I really don't need

2649
01:17:10,324 --> 01:17:10,574
to be able to say, OK, the

2650
01:17:12,424 --> 01:17:12,674
Amazon plant went down in value

2651
01:17:14,324 --> 01:17:14,574
300%, 200%.

2652
01:17:18,191 --> 01:17:18,441
Why and where is the quality

2653
01:17:18,824 --> 01:17:19,074
control check there this

2654
01:17:20,257 --> 01:17:20,507
property here

2655
01:17:20,557 --> 01:17:20,807
went down.

2656
01:17:26,191 --> 01:17:26,441
60%. 0, because it should have 3

2657
01:17:28,224 --> 01:17:28,474
warehouses, only 2 were

2658
01:17:28,791 --> 01:17:29,041
assessed, things like that that

2659
01:17:30,291 --> 01:17:30,541
needs to be a big part of.

2660
01:17:32,491 --> 01:17:32,741
What we're doing now we did do

2661
01:17:34,524 --> 01:17:34,774
some things around that this

2662
01:17:35,124 --> 01:17:35,374
previous year.

2663
01:17:38,357 --> 01:17:38,607
But again, it's one of the

2664
01:17:38,924 --> 01:17:39,174
limitations what we're talking

2665
01:17:39,557 --> 01:17:39,807
about.

2666
01:17:42,591 --> 01:17:42,841
I, I think Sussex, I believe you

2667
01:17:44,557 --> 01:17:44,807
guys brought into the Republican

2668
01:17:45,291 --> 01:17:45,541
House caucus.

2669
01:17:48,491 --> 01:17:48,741
Some information that showed

2670
01:17:49,091 --> 01:17:49,341
like the top.

2671
01:17:54,224 --> 01:17:54,474
I think it was 50 properties was

2672
01:17:54,957 --> 01:17:55,207
50 properties which what

2673
01:17:56,191 --> 01:17:56,441
what how much they went up pray

2674
01:17:58,324 --> 01:17:58,574
pray wise, but not only that, it

2675
01:18:00,224 --> 01:18:00,474
was the property type and who

2676
01:18:02,424 --> 01:18:02,674
owned them and and like 47 of

2677
01:18:06,324 --> 01:18:06,574
the top 50 were properties that

2678
01:18:08,224 --> 01:18:08,474
were on the beach, owned by an

2679
01:18:10,357 --> 01:18:10,607
out of state entity, right? I'm

2680
01:18:11,057 --> 01:18:11,307
not saying we shouldn't care,

2681
01:18:11,657 --> 01:18:11,907
but

2682
01:18:14,491 --> 01:18:14,741
We cared a lot less, right, than

2683
01:18:18,257 --> 01:18:18,507
it would be if it was grandma or

2684
01:18:20,491 --> 01:18:20,741
grandpa's farm, right? Um, but

2685
01:18:22,424 --> 01:18:22,674
there still needs to be a

2686
01:18:24,257 --> 01:18:24,507
quality control and those

2687
01:18:26,257 --> 01:18:26,507
properties went up 200, 300%,

2688
01:18:28,324 --> 01:18:28,574
but probably should have, you

2689
01:18:30,224 --> 01:18:30,474
know, they were in England bay

2690
01:18:32,257 --> 01:18:32,507
properties that in 1980 you

2691
01:18:32,891 --> 01:18:33,141
could have bought for.

2692
01:18:36,191 --> 01:18:36,441
$20,000 an hour should be

2693
01:18:38,324 --> 01:18:38,574
assessed at 500. OK, I'm going

2694
01:18:38,957 --> 01:18:39,207
to turn it back over to Justin

2695
01:18:40,291 --> 01:18:40,541
because he I think he's like,

2696
01:18:40,957 --> 01:18:41,207
Cindy, we've got slides.

2697
01:18:44,257 --> 01:18:44,507
Yeah, I'm about halfway through

2698
01:18:44,891 --> 01:18:45,141
the slides,

2699
01:18:46,424 --> 01:18:46,674
so

2700
01:18:50,357 --> 01:18:50,607
18 in, so just, um, and, and I

2701
01:18:52,257 --> 01:18:52,507
think these are all good

2702
01:18:54,224 --> 01:18:54,474
conversations, so, um, I do like

2703
01:18:56,324 --> 01:18:56,574
this. Uh, and just my two cents

2704
01:18:58,324 --> 01:18:58,574
on the permits. Um, I think

2705
01:19:00,291 --> 01:19:00,541
they're a good indicator that an

2706
01:19:00,957 --> 01:19:01,207
assessor should take a look

2707
01:19:04,257 --> 01:19:04,507
potentially at the property, but

2708
01:19:04,891 --> 01:19:05,141
I don't know that the state

2709
01:19:06,524 --> 01:19:06,774
wants to get into legislating

2710
01:19:08,691 --> 01:19:08,941
like specifically how an

2711
01:19:09,257 --> 01:19:09,507
appraiser does.

2712
01:19:12,524 --> 01:19:12,774
Does some of their job anyway,

2713
01:19:16,224 --> 01:19:16,474
just because you get too nuanced

2714
01:19:18,324 --> 01:19:18,574
and it's um it needs to be kind

2715
01:19:20,224 --> 01:19:20,474
of left up to them, because

2716
01:19:20,791 --> 01:19:21,041
they, they're sitting there

2717
01:19:22,357 --> 01:19:22,607
studying the market all day, so,

2718
01:19:24,191 --> 01:19:24,441
can I clarify on the record that

2719
01:19:26,457 --> 01:19:26,707
yeah, I would not be in favor of

2720
01:19:27,124 --> 01:19:27,374
all that

2721
01:19:28,591 --> 01:19:28,841
of getting too much scrutiny.

2722
01:19:30,491 --> 01:19:30,741
No, I agree. And, and now all

2723
01:19:32,357 --> 01:19:32,607
the counties like you a lot,

2724
01:19:32,924 --> 01:19:33,174
Justin.

2725
01:19:34,624 --> 01:19:34,874
They're all they're all smiling

2726
01:19:36,491 --> 01:19:36,741
like I like grinning ear to ear.

2727
01:19:40,291 --> 01:19:40,541
No, not. That's why we want to

2728
01:19:42,424 --> 01:19:42,674
have a conversation with off the

2729
01:19:44,224 --> 01:19:44,474
table. We're good, we're good.

2730
01:19:46,524 --> 01:19:46,774
OK. Yeah, OK, so, um, New Castle

2731
01:19:48,391 --> 01:19:48,641
County, identify challenges,

2732
01:19:50,524 --> 01:19:50,774
lessons learned, and issues for

2733
01:19:52,457 --> 01:19:52,707
the working group. So this was

2734
01:19:56,224 --> 01:19:56,474
really good. Um, so a, a large

2735
01:19:56,857 --> 01:19:57,107
share of non-residential

2736
01:19:58,457 --> 01:19:58,707
property questionnaires were

2737
01:20:00,224 --> 01:20:00,474
never returned during the

2738
01:20:00,824 --> 01:20:01,074
reassessment, limiting the

2739
01:20:04,291 --> 01:20:04,541
accuracy of data collection, uh,

2740
01:20:06,257 --> 01:20:06,507
establishing a more effective

2741
01:20:06,924 --> 01:20:07,174
process to ensure full

2742
01:20:07,457 --> 01:20:07,707
participation would improve.

2743
01:20:10,491 --> 01:20:10,741
Clients, uh, reducing the

2744
01:20:14,257 --> 01:20:14,507
volume, subsequent appeals and

2745
01:20:14,857 --> 01:20:15,107
make the overall assessment

2746
01:20:18,191 --> 01:20:18,441
workflow efficient, um, more

2747
01:20:18,791 --> 01:20:19,041
efficient for all parties. So,

2748
01:20:20,524 --> 01:20:20,774
one thing, you know, we talked

2749
01:20:22,557 --> 01:20:22,807
about just a minute ago, um, you

2750
01:20:26,357 --> 01:20:26,607
know, permits and appeals and

2751
01:20:28,257 --> 01:20:28,507
that kind of thing, but you can

2752
01:20:30,224 --> 01:20:30,474
also send out questionnaires or

2753
01:20:30,957 --> 01:20:31,207
you can encourage people to get

2754
01:20:32,424 --> 01:20:32,674
on your county's assessment

2755
01:20:34,257 --> 01:20:34,507
website and say, hey, you know,

2756
01:20:36,257 --> 01:20:36,507
if a, if a change has been made

2757
01:20:36,857 --> 01:20:37,107
to your property, let us know.

2758
01:20:37,557 --> 01:20:37,807
We can make that.

2759
01:20:40,457 --> 01:20:40,707
Change before it it gets to the

2760
01:20:42,424 --> 01:20:42,674
evaluation notice, you know,

2761
01:20:44,257 --> 01:20:44,507
part, and before it gets to

2762
01:20:46,291 --> 01:20:46,541
appeals, let's get it right

2763
01:20:48,457 --> 01:20:48,707
ahead of time, um, which can be,

2764
01:20:50,491 --> 01:20:50,741
it's, it's a lot better for

2765
01:20:52,491 --> 01:20:52,741
everyone, really. Um, so limited

2766
01:20:54,557 --> 01:20:54,807
availability of uh reliable

2767
01:20:56,557 --> 01:20:56,807
sales data, often due to

2768
01:20:58,624 --> 01:20:58,874
properties being recorded with a

2769
01:21:02,224 --> 01:21:02,474
nominal value of $10. Sale

2770
01:21:02,757 --> 01:21:03,007
prices slow the, uh,

2771
01:21:04,524 --> 01:21:04,774
reassessment process and

2772
01:21:06,357 --> 01:21:06,607
restricts appellant's ability to

2773
01:21:07,091 --> 01:21:07,341
obtain credible information to

2774
01:21:07,791 --> 01:21:08,041
support their.

2775
01:21:10,524 --> 01:21:10,774
So this is a really good point.

2776
01:21:12,524 --> 01:21:12,774
Um, a lot of states require a

2777
01:21:14,424 --> 01:21:14,674
sales validation questionnaire

2778
01:21:16,557 --> 01:21:16,807
with the actual sales amount on

2779
01:21:18,491 --> 01:21:18,741
it, and there's like a fine if

2780
01:21:20,491 --> 01:21:20,741
they, if they're, you know, if

2781
01:21:22,357 --> 01:21:22,607
they put $10 on there and it

2782
01:21:24,257 --> 01:21:24,507
really sold for a million

2783
01:21:26,324 --> 01:21:26,574
Um, I've seen states do that,

2784
01:21:28,424 --> 01:21:28,674
that can be a way to kind of

2785
01:21:30,224 --> 01:21:30,474
ensure that the counties

2786
01:21:30,791 --> 01:21:31,041
actually get good data so they

2787
01:21:32,391 --> 01:21:32,641
can come up with equitable

2788
01:21:34,391 --> 01:21:34,641
values and property owners,

2789
01:21:36,724 --> 01:21:36,974
realtors, um, fee appraisers can

2790
01:21:37,457 --> 01:21:37,707
all have that data.

2791
01:21:40,491 --> 01:21:40,741
than 2, when they go to try to

2792
01:21:41,191 --> 01:21:41,441
value a property.

2793
01:21:44,624 --> 01:21:44,874
So at the end though from the

2794
01:21:45,291 --> 01:21:45,541
RTT cost.

2795
01:21:48,357 --> 01:21:48,607
That's, you can still

2796
01:21:48,791 --> 01:21:49,041
extrapolate.

2797
01:21:52,324 --> 01:21:52,574
It's, there's too many outliers

2798
01:21:52,991 --> 01:21:53,241
to make it accurate. Yeah, I

2799
01:21:54,324 --> 01:21:54,574
mean, not arm's length

2800
01:21:56,224 --> 01:21:56,474
transactions. I understand that.

2801
01:21:58,224 --> 01:21:58,474
Yeah, it's, it's, and the

2802
01:21:58,757 --> 01:21:59,007
recorder need system is not.

2803
01:22:02,357 --> 01:22:02,607
Uh, pair up with the, on the

2804
01:22:04,357 --> 01:22:04,607
county side for assessment. So

2805
01:22:06,457 --> 01:22:06,707
this has been, uh, this was a

2806
01:22:08,224 --> 01:22:08,474
big challenge for us, especially

2807
01:22:08,857 --> 01:22:09,107
for our folks going through

2808
01:22:10,524 --> 01:22:10,774
appeals. Many of them were

2809
01:22:11,124 --> 01:22:11,374
sending in, uh,

2810
01:22:14,391 --> 01:22:14,641
Appeals with, with no, with no

2811
01:22:16,391 --> 01:22:16,641
comps, uh, no credible data, and

2812
01:22:18,257 --> 01:22:18,507
they, and their biggest

2813
01:22:18,824 --> 01:22:19,074
complaint was, I went to the

2814
01:22:20,557 --> 01:22:20,807
county site and couldn't find

2815
01:22:22,524 --> 01:22:22,774
any sales in my area that were

2816
01:22:23,191 --> 01:22:23,441
disclosed for.

2817
01:22:24,591 --> 01:22:24,841
Other than something other than

2818
01:22:25,291 --> 01:22:25,541
$10.

2819
01:22:28,424 --> 01:22:28,674
So it puts an additional cost on

2820
01:22:30,224 --> 01:22:30,474
our um appellants.

2821
01:22:32,324 --> 01:22:32,574
To go through something where

2822
01:22:32,957 --> 01:22:33,207
they shouldn't really have to

2823
01:22:34,324 --> 01:22:34,574
have a cost coming out of their

2824
01:22:36,191 --> 01:22:36,441
pocket to go through the appeal

2825
01:22:38,524 --> 01:22:38,774
process. So, it's, it's a simple

2826
01:22:40,557 --> 01:22:40,807
process. Having the $10 limit

2827
01:22:42,624 --> 01:22:42,874
has been a restriction and also

2828
01:22:44,257 --> 01:22:44,507
when the RFP goes out.

2829
01:22:46,424 --> 01:22:46,674
The bidders are looking at our

2830
01:22:48,224 --> 01:22:48,474
ability, their ability to pull

2831
01:22:48,891 --> 01:22:49,141
that and going through

2832
01:22:50,291 --> 01:22:50,541
additional resources.

2833
01:22:54,491 --> 01:22:54,741
Adds to the cost of the

2834
01:22:56,291 --> 01:22:56,541
reassessment. Also, one thing

2835
01:22:56,957 --> 01:22:57,207
with those sales validation

2836
01:22:58,324 --> 01:22:58,574
questionnaires, you can ask

2837
01:23:00,324 --> 01:23:00,574
qualifying questions too, like,

2838
01:23:02,324 --> 01:23:02,574
you know, was any personal

2839
01:23:04,324 --> 01:23:04,574
property included with this

2840
01:23:06,191 --> 01:23:06,441
transaction? Was there a

2841
01:23:06,757 --> 01:23:07,007
business sold, you know,

2842
01:23:08,191 --> 01:23:08,441
especially when you're looking

2843
01:23:08,824 --> 01:23:09,074
at uh commercial real estate,

2844
01:23:10,357 --> 01:23:10,607
you know, was a business

2845
01:23:12,224 --> 01:23:12,474
included with the sale price?

2846
01:23:14,424 --> 01:23:14,674
Um, was there any other, you

2847
01:23:16,457 --> 01:23:16,707
know, were related parties, uh,

2848
01:23:18,224 --> 01:23:18,474
involved, you know, was it a

2849
01:23:20,457 --> 01:23:20,707
sale between a a father and son

2850
01:23:22,324 --> 01:23:22,574
or something like that. So, you

2851
01:23:23,024 --> 01:23:23,274
know, having that information.

2852
01:23:26,191 --> 01:23:26,441
for the assessor trying to

2853
01:23:28,324 --> 01:23:28,574
validate sales. It can be a huge

2854
01:23:29,057 --> 01:23:29,307
tool, and it, it really helps

2855
01:23:32,357 --> 01:23:32,607
speed up the process of uh of

2856
01:23:33,024 --> 01:23:33,274
verifying sales data.

2857
01:23:38,191 --> 01:23:38,441
All right, um, so a limited pool

2858
01:23:38,857 --> 01:23:39,107
of certified assessors is

2859
01:23:40,357 --> 01:23:40,607
available to carry out the

2860
01:23:42,224 --> 01:23:42,474
specialized work required by the

2861
01:23:44,191 --> 01:23:44,441
county assessor's Office as well

2862
01:23:46,224 --> 01:23:46,474
as by private sector entities.

2863
01:23:48,224 --> 01:23:48,474
It takes a significant amount of

2864
01:23:50,224 --> 01:23:50,474
time to recruit, hire and train

2865
01:23:50,891 --> 01:23:51,141
personnel to perform the

2866
01:23:52,391 --> 01:23:52,641
assessor's function. So I've

2867
01:23:54,691 --> 01:23:54,941
been there, done that. Um, it,

2868
01:23:58,224 --> 01:23:58,474
it literally takes years to get

2869
01:24:00,257 --> 01:24:00,507
people up to speed. You've got

2870
01:24:00,924 --> 01:24:01,174
to send them to training.

2871
01:24:02,624 --> 01:24:02,874
They've got to get educated.

2872
01:24:04,324 --> 01:24:04,574
They've got to learn uh internal

2873
01:24:05,024 --> 01:24:05,274
process.

2874
01:24:06,224 --> 01:24:06,474
Um,

2875
01:24:08,291 --> 01:24:08,541
they have to get the experience

2876
01:24:09,024 --> 01:24:09,274
and, and it really takes them

2877
01:24:10,524 --> 01:24:10,774
years to get the experience to

2878
01:24:12,491 --> 01:24:12,741
fulfill some of these, uh, roles

2879
01:24:14,591 --> 01:24:14,841
and responsibilities. And so I

2880
01:24:16,457 --> 01:24:16,707
think the next, you know, the

2881
01:24:18,391 --> 01:24:18,641
next assessment's gonna get

2882
01:24:20,224 --> 01:24:20,474
easier, and if you've got a

2883
01:24:20,824 --> 01:24:21,074
regular schedule of assessments,

2884
01:24:22,457 --> 01:24:22,707
It makes it easier for the

2885
01:24:24,557 --> 01:24:24,807
counties to plan and hire

2886
01:24:26,324 --> 01:24:26,574
accordingly and train

2887
01:24:28,457 --> 01:24:28,707
accordingly. So, I think you'll

2888
01:24:29,091 --> 01:24:29,341
see some improvements there, I

2889
01:24:29,791 --> 01:24:30,041
would hope.

2890
01:24:32,524 --> 01:24:32,774
Um, the assessment process is

2891
01:24:34,324 --> 01:24:34,574
costly for all parties,

2892
01:24:36,357 --> 01:24:36,607
establishing a state funding

2893
01:24:38,224 --> 01:24:38,474
source to support reassessment

2894
01:24:40,224 --> 01:24:40,474
on a five-year cycle would help

2895
01:24:42,191 --> 01:24:42,441
reduce the burden on taxpayers.

2896
01:24:44,191 --> 01:24:44,441
Each appeal defense cost New

2897
01:24:44,757 --> 01:24:45,007
Castle County thousands of

2898
01:24:46,424 --> 01:24:46,674
dollars, expenses that

2899
01:24:48,357 --> 01:24:48,607
ultimately must be covered

2900
01:24:50,357 --> 01:24:50,607
through property tax revenues,

2901
01:24:52,657 --> 01:24:52,907
and then it's continued. Um, the

2902
01:24:54,457 --> 01:24:54,707
county is in the process of

2903
01:24:56,457 --> 01:24:56,707
preparing to release RFP. We've

2904
01:24:57,157 --> 01:24:57,407
already talked about that a

2905
01:24:58,457 --> 01:24:58,707
little bit, um.

2906
01:25:02,191 --> 01:25:02,441
So some of the results could

2907
01:25:02,857 --> 01:25:03,107
impact that process and then

2908
01:25:03,424 --> 01:25:03,674
continued.

2909
01:25:04,457 --> 01:25:04,707
Uh,

2910
01:25:08,224 --> 01:25:08,474
municipalities in Delaware have

2911
01:25:10,224 --> 01:25:10,474
the opportunity to adopt county

2912
01:25:12,324 --> 01:25:12,574
property assessment for local

2913
01:25:16,191 --> 01:25:16,441
tax purposes and must make this

2914
01:25:18,224 --> 01:25:18,474
decision yearly. Even so, under

2915
01:25:18,857 --> 01:25:19,107
the Boris rules, uh.

2916
01:25:22,457 --> 01:25:22,707
Municipalities which elect to

2917
01:25:24,291 --> 01:25:24,541
use the county property

2918
01:25:26,291 --> 01:25:26,541
assessment list may appear and

2919
01:25:28,191 --> 01:25:28,441
be heard in defense of the

2920
01:25:30,224 --> 01:25:30,474
appellant at a formal hearing of

2921
01:25:32,257 --> 01:25:32,507
the Bora. In other words, as

2922
01:25:32,891 --> 01:25:33,141
part of the appeal process,

2923
01:25:34,557 --> 01:25:34,807
municipalities may with their

2924
01:25:38,224 --> 01:25:38,474
county assessment office consent

2925
01:25:40,291 --> 01:25:40,541
to be involved in defending the

2926
01:25:40,957 --> 01:25:41,207
current assessment value of the

2927
01:25:42,624 --> 01:25:42,874
parcel that is under appeal

2928
01:25:44,624 --> 01:25:44,874
because the municipalities do

2929
01:25:46,457 --> 01:25:46,707
not otherwise participate in the

2930
01:25:48,424 --> 01:25:48,674
assessment of property, this

2931
01:25:49,057 --> 01:25:49,307
dynamic of municipalities.

2932
01:25:52,291 --> 01:25:52,541
Sharing the county's assessed

2933
01:25:54,324 --> 01:25:54,574
values adds additional

2934
01:25:56,324 --> 01:25:56,574
complexity to the reassessment

2935
01:25:58,191 --> 01:25:58,441
process, so they're just saying,

2936
01:25:58,891 --> 01:25:59,141
you know, there's more, more

2937
01:26:00,391 --> 01:26:00,641
chefs in the kitchen, I guess,

2938
01:26:02,457 --> 01:26:02,707
and it's make it can complicate

2939
01:26:03,157 --> 01:26:03,407
things a little bit.

2940
01:26:04,457 --> 01:26:04,707
Um.

2941
01:26:08,224 --> 01:26:08,474
Any additional information you'd

2942
01:26:08,991 --> 01:26:09,241
like, uh, for the working group

2943
01:26:10,457 --> 01:26:10,707
to know, um, so.

2944
01:26:14,257 --> 01:26:14,507
Newcastle wanted to point out

2945
01:26:16,424 --> 01:26:16,674
that on November 26, 2008, a

2946
01:26:18,424 --> 01:26:18,674
committee formed by the 144th

2947
01:26:20,457 --> 01:26:20,707
General Assembly issued its

2948
01:26:22,624 --> 01:26:22,874
final report, the 144th General

2949
01:26:26,224 --> 01:26:26,474
Assembly sought recommendations

2950
01:26:26,957 --> 01:26:27,207
to provide a mechanism for fair

2951
01:26:28,524 --> 01:26:28,774
and equitable reassessments of

2952
01:26:30,357 --> 01:26:30,607
all real property within the

2953
01:26:32,224 --> 01:26:32,474
state. The report was delivered

2954
01:26:34,391 --> 01:26:34,641
to then Governor, uh, Minor and

2955
01:26:36,391 --> 01:26:36,641
the members of the 144th General

2956
01:26:38,357 --> 01:26:38,607
Assembly. The primary

2957
01:26:38,757 --> 01:26:39,007
recommendation was the

2958
01:26:40,524 --> 01:26:40,774
development of the state RFP to

2959
01:26:41,157 --> 01:26:41,407
establish a single.

2960
01:26:44,324 --> 01:26:44,574
Statewide real property database

2961
01:26:46,324 --> 01:26:46,574
system to be administered by the

2962
01:26:48,224 --> 01:26:48,474
state of Delaware, which is

2963
01:26:48,757 --> 01:26:49,007
supported by New Castle County.

2964
01:26:50,457 --> 01:26:50,707
These recommendations within

2965
01:26:52,457 --> 01:26:52,707
this report should be revisited.

2966
01:26:56,191 --> 01:26:56,441
So, um, this is something that I

2967
01:26:56,857 --> 01:26:57,107
think would be a great idea is

2968
01:26:58,491 --> 01:26:58,741
having a statewide database. It

2969
01:27:00,391 --> 01:27:00,641
would help the counties out a

2970
01:27:01,057 --> 01:27:01,307
lot, especially on, you know,

2971
01:27:02,524 --> 01:27:02,774
you've got a, say, Amazon

2972
01:27:04,524 --> 01:27:04,774
warehouse or any, any warehouse,

2973
01:27:06,257 --> 01:27:06,507
it doesn't really matter. And it

2974
01:27:06,891 --> 01:27:07,141
might be that one county doesn't

2975
01:27:08,624 --> 01:27:08,874
have a lot of sales of them, but

2976
01:27:10,524 --> 01:27:10,774
the next county does. If they're

2977
01:27:11,191 --> 01:27:11,441
sort of can share.

2978
01:27:14,324 --> 01:27:14,574
Share some of this data, it can

2979
01:27:16,457 --> 01:27:16,707
help a lot. Um, also, if there's

2980
01:27:18,457 --> 01:27:18,707
a, a central database, the

2981
01:27:20,457 --> 01:27:20,707
legislature's got questions and

2982
01:27:22,391 --> 01:27:22,641
needs data, you know, hopefully

2983
01:27:24,391 --> 01:27:24,641
that could be accessed and, and

2984
01:27:25,091 --> 01:27:25,341
data could be provided.

2985
01:27:28,457 --> 01:27:28,707
You know, quicker, cleaner, that

2986
01:27:30,191 --> 01:27:30,441
kind of thing. Everything would

2987
01:27:32,324 --> 01:27:32,574
be in a, in a similar format,

2988
01:27:34,324 --> 01:27:34,574
hopefully, um,

2989
01:27:36,257 --> 01:27:36,507
to kind of expedite some

2990
01:27:36,857 --> 01:27:37,107
processes.

2991
01:27:40,324 --> 01:27:40,574
Um, in addition, strengthening

2992
01:27:41,024 --> 01:27:41,274
assessment authority for

2993
01:27:42,524 --> 01:27:42,774
accurate evaluations. Continue

2994
01:27:44,291 --> 01:27:44,541
to allow Newcastle to have

2995
01:27:46,357 --> 01:27:46,607
enforceable subpoena authority

2996
01:27:48,224 --> 01:27:48,474
to obtain financial information

2997
01:27:48,924 --> 01:27:49,174
needed to perform income

2998
01:27:50,357 --> 01:27:50,607
approach valuations for

2999
01:27:52,357 --> 01:27:52,607
commercial and non-residential

3000
01:27:54,224 --> 01:27:54,474
properties. Uh, current

3001
01:27:56,191 --> 01:27:56,441
authority has expiration date,

3002
01:27:58,324 --> 01:27:58,574
but could be helpful for the

3003
01:27:58,957 --> 01:27:59,207
next reassessment.

3004
01:28:00,557 --> 01:28:00,807
Um, and I think these are all

3005
01:28:02,291 --> 01:28:02,541
things that, you know, maybe

3006
01:28:04,524 --> 01:28:04,774
this, this group should think

3007
01:28:06,291 --> 01:28:06,541
about, you know, as we go

3008
01:28:06,891 --> 01:28:07,141
through all the county

3009
01:28:08,457 --> 01:28:08,707
recommendations, uh, defined

3010
01:28:09,024 --> 01:28:09,274
Um, and I think these are all

3011
01:28:09,624 --> 01:28:09,874
things that, you know, maybe

3012
01:28:10,224 --> 01:28:10,474
this, this group should think

3013
01:28:10,791 --> 01:28:11,041
about, you know, as we go

3014
01:28:11,391 --> 01:28:11,641
through all the county

3015
01:28:11,857 --> 01:28:12,107
recommendations, uh, define

3016
01:28:12,457 --> 01:28:12,707
error consistently across

3017
01:28:14,191 --> 01:28:14,441
relevant statutes to reduce

3018
01:28:16,291 --> 01:28:16,541
ambiguity and allow timely

3019
01:28:18,391 --> 01:28:18,641
correction of assessed values

3020
01:28:20,624 --> 01:28:20,874
continued align, uh, statutory

3021
01:28:22,624 --> 01:28:22,874
language across counties to

3022
01:28:24,557 --> 01:28:24,807
ensure uniform assessment

3023
01:28:26,357 --> 01:28:26,607
practices statewide.

3024
01:28:28,591 --> 01:28:28,841
Required the state's Department

3025
01:28:30,457 --> 01:28:30,707
of Finance to produce statewide

3026
01:28:32,424 --> 01:28:32,674
reassessment related contracts

3027
01:28:34,224 --> 01:28:34,474
with a single approved vendor,

3028
01:28:36,291 --> 01:28:36,541
reducing redundant county level

3029
01:28:38,357 --> 01:28:38,607
procurement time and ensuring

3030
01:28:40,357 --> 01:28:40,607
statewide consistency, um.

3031
01:28:42,324 --> 01:28:42,574
Which that could be a good

3032
01:28:44,224 --> 01:28:44,474
option. Uh, consider

3033
01:28:46,324 --> 01:28:46,574
establishing a state tax court

3034
01:28:48,291 --> 01:28:48,541
to centralize and expedite

3035
01:28:48,857 --> 01:28:49,107
tax-related, uh,

3036
01:28:52,324 --> 01:28:52,574
Litigation, improving statewide

3037
01:28:52,991 --> 01:28:53,241
efficiency. That's something

3038
01:28:58,324 --> 01:28:58,574
I've seen in other states.

3039
01:29:02,324 --> 01:29:02,574
Click to the next one, sorry.

3040
01:29:06,224 --> 01:29:06,474
All right. Um, clarification on

3041
01:29:08,224 --> 01:29:08,474
FOIA requirements in certain

3042
01:29:10,191 --> 01:29:10,441
public meetings, going all

3043
01:29:12,224 --> 01:29:12,474
virtual, if we can get to a

3044
01:29:12,857 --> 01:29:13,107
point where a referee hearings

3045
01:29:16,257 --> 01:29:16,507
can be held 100% virtually and

3046
01:29:18,357 --> 01:29:18,607
not have to have someone in

3047
01:29:18,924 --> 01:29:19,174
person and

3048
01:29:22,191 --> 01:29:22,441
Anchor location, that would make

3049
01:29:22,957 --> 01:29:23,207
things much easier logistically

3050
01:29:24,257 --> 01:29:24,507
moving forward. Sounds like.

3051
01:29:26,524 --> 01:29:26,774
A potential cost savings there

3052
01:29:27,191 --> 01:29:27,441
also.

3053
01:29:30,491 --> 01:29:30,741
All right, um, modernize appeal

3054
01:29:32,424 --> 01:29:32,674
classification, administration,

3055
01:29:34,491 --> 01:29:34,741
adjustment process. So, um,

3056
01:29:38,291 --> 01:29:38,541
Clarify the Superior Court

3057
01:29:40,324 --> 01:29:40,574
appeals standard to eliminate

3058
01:29:40,891 --> 01:29:41,141
inconsistent judicial

3059
01:29:42,457 --> 01:29:42,707
interpretation and streamlined

3060
01:29:43,157 --> 01:29:43,407
appeal review.

3061
01:29:44,424 --> 01:29:44,674
Uh,

3062
01:29:48,291 --> 01:29:48,541
explicitly authorized limited

3063
01:29:48,891 --> 01:29:49,141
administration adjustments to

3064
01:29:52,224 --> 01:29:52,474
assessment roles outside formal

3065
01:29:54,224 --> 01:29:54,474
appeals under defined

3066
01:29:54,657 --> 01:29:54,907
conditions, so counties can

3067
01:29:56,557 --> 01:29:56,807
correct systematic anomalies

3068
01:29:57,124 --> 01:29:57,374
more efficiently.

3069
01:30:00,524 --> 01:30:00,774
Yeah, continue on this, uh,

3070
01:30:02,424 --> 01:30:02,674
update and define

3071
01:30:04,391 --> 01:30:04,641
non-residential property

3072
01:30:08,257 --> 01:30:08,507
classifications, so operational

3073
01:30:08,991 --> 01:30:09,241
impacts can be managed with

3074
01:30:10,224 --> 01:30:10,474
adequate lead time.

3075
01:30:14,191 --> 01:30:14,441
There could be conflicts if

3076
01:30:16,224 --> 01:30:16,474
changes are made to tax code

3077
01:30:18,224 --> 01:30:18,474
that do not comport with IAAO

3078
01:30:20,391 --> 01:30:20,641
standards, enhanced transparency

3079
01:30:22,357 --> 01:30:22,607
and modernization in real estate

3080
01:30:24,324 --> 01:30:24,574
transactions require every real

3081
01:30:24,991 --> 01:30:25,241
estate transaction to be

3082
01:30:26,657 --> 01:30:26,907
recorded with actual purchase

3083
01:30:28,557 --> 01:30:28,807
amounts reflected in the deed

3084
01:30:32,324 --> 01:30:32,574
record throughout the appeal

3085
01:30:34,457 --> 01:30:34,707
process. It was a, a consistent

3086
01:30:36,324 --> 01:30:36,574
complaint for propellants that

3087
01:30:38,257 --> 01:30:38,507
it was difficult to find

3088
01:30:40,257 --> 01:30:40,507
comparable sales when deeds are

3089
01:30:40,957 --> 01:30:41,207
reflected or reflecting.

3090
01:30:44,324 --> 01:30:44,574
Dollar sale amount, uh, in

3091
01:30:46,257 --> 01:30:46,507
addition, extra work was

3092
01:30:46,757 --> 01:30:47,007
required by Tyler to pull sales

3093
01:30:48,491 --> 01:30:48,741
data using other means during

3094
01:30:50,424 --> 01:30:50,674
the reassessment period itself.

3095
01:30:58,457 --> 01:30:58,707
All right, New Castle County,

3096
01:31:02,257 --> 01:31:02,507
what did I miss on, uh, on that

3097
01:31:02,957 --> 01:31:03,207
information? Did I miss

3098
01:31:03,424 --> 01:31:03,674
anything?

3099
01:31:04,524 --> 01:31:04,774
You'll get A plus.

3100
01:31:06,324 --> 01:31:06,574
OK. Thank you.

3101
01:31:06,624 --> 01:31:06,874
OK.

3102
01:31:12,224 --> 01:31:12,474
All right, uh, Sussex County's

3103
01:31:14,324 --> 01:31:14,574
responses to questions. So

3104
01:31:14,857 --> 01:31:15,107
provide an overview of

3105
01:31:18,424 --> 01:31:18,674
administrative capacity, um, and

3106
01:31:22,257 --> 01:31:22,507
governance structure and the

3107
01:31:24,191 --> 01:31:24,441
assessment division operated

3108
01:31:24,724 --> 01:31:24,974
independently prior to

3109
01:31:25,224 --> 01:31:25,474
reassessment. During the

3110
01:31:26,557 --> 01:31:26,807
reassessment, there was more

3111
01:31:28,557 --> 01:31:28,807
involvement by, uh, finance

3112
01:31:30,324 --> 01:31:30,574
administration to help with

3113
01:31:32,191 --> 01:31:32,441
communication and contract

3114
01:31:32,757 --> 01:31:33,007
oversight, which makes a lot of

3115
01:31:34,491 --> 01:31:34,741
sense since the assessment

3116
01:31:36,291 --> 01:31:36,541
department hadn't been, um,

3117
01:31:38,324 --> 01:31:38,574
You know, hadn't had a big

3118
01:31:38,857 --> 01:31:39,107
reassessment and so.

3119
01:31:40,357 --> 01:31:40,607
Administration would be good.

3120
01:31:42,257 --> 01:31:42,507
Good to help with that.

3121
01:31:44,424 --> 01:31:44,674
Uh, provide an overview of

3122
01:31:46,224 --> 01:31:46,474
county and vendor roles,

3123
01:31:46,757 --> 01:31:47,007
responsibilities, and mass

3124
01:31:48,491 --> 01:31:48,741
appraisal, including county

3125
01:31:50,457 --> 01:31:50,707
staff oversight, compare your

3126
01:31:52,391 --> 01:31:52,641
prior assessment to the outside

3127
01:31:54,491 --> 01:31:54,741
or outset of the current status.

3128
01:31:58,257 --> 01:31:58,507
So Sussex hired Tyler Technology

3129
01:32:00,257 --> 01:32:00,507
to the entire reassessment

3130
01:32:00,791 --> 01:32:01,041
project, which included data

3131
01:32:02,657 --> 01:32:02,907
entry, data verification, data

3132
01:32:04,557 --> 01:32:04,807
mailers, neighborhood

3133
01:32:06,624 --> 01:32:06,874
delineation, uh, appraisal

3134
01:32:08,491 --> 01:32:08,741
services, including developing a

3135
01:32:10,657 --> 01:32:10,907
residential improvement cost

3136
01:32:12,324 --> 01:32:12,574
table and index, commercial and

3137
01:32:13,057 --> 01:32:13,307
industrial.

3138
01:32:14,557 --> 01:32:14,807
evaluation, market analysis,

3139
01:32:18,191 --> 01:32:18,441
income valuation models, ratio

3140
01:32:20,324 --> 01:32:20,574
studies, income and expense data

3141
01:32:22,291 --> 01:32:22,541
analysis, communication plan

3142
01:32:24,391 --> 01:32:24,641
with website host, uh, staff

3143
01:32:26,491 --> 01:32:26,741
referee, and board training,

3144
01:32:28,491 --> 01:32:28,741
informal appeals, monthly status

3145
01:32:30,257 --> 01:32:30,507
updates to Sussex County.

3146
01:32:32,491 --> 01:32:32,741
Um, and there's a lot of details

3147
01:32:34,324 --> 01:32:34,574
within this. They're just kind

3148
01:32:38,357 --> 01:32:38,607
of listing out the major stuff

3149
01:32:39,024 --> 01:32:39,274
here, so.

3150
01:32:40,357 --> 01:32:40,607
All right, uh,

3151
01:32:44,324 --> 01:32:44,574
Sussex County was responsible

3152
01:32:46,424 --> 01:32:46,674
for approving all communication

3153
01:32:48,224 --> 01:32:48,474
plans and documents sent out by

3154
01:32:48,924 --> 01:32:49,174
Tyler participating in public

3155
01:32:52,224 --> 01:32:52,474
meetings about the process, 10

3156
01:32:52,891 --> 01:32:53,141
monthly status meetings with

3157
01:32:56,457 --> 01:32:56,707
Tyler, uh, project team, quality

3158
01:32:57,157 --> 01:32:57,407
control checks.

3159
01:33:00,491 --> 01:33:00,741
Uh, reassessment results and be

3160
01:33:02,424 --> 01:33:02,674
trained on the methodologies

3161
01:33:04,224 --> 01:33:04,474
used by Tyler Technologies.

3162
01:33:06,357 --> 01:33:06,607
Sussex provided current building

3163
01:33:08,391 --> 01:33:08,641
permit, property record, cards,

3164
01:33:10,424 --> 01:33:10,674
customer information along with

3165
01:33:12,357 --> 01:33:12,607
current digital parcel

3166
01:33:12,824 --> 01:33:13,074
information and sales

3167
01:33:14,457 --> 01:33:14,707
information. Today, Tyler is not

3168
01:33:16,591 --> 01:33:16,841
involved in any assessment

3169
01:33:18,457 --> 01:33:18,707
process with Sussex. All current

3170
01:33:20,257 --> 01:33:20,507
assessment processes are done

3171
01:33:20,857 --> 01:33:21,107
in-house.

3172
01:33:24,257 --> 01:33:24,507
So state your appraisal

3173
01:33:26,257 --> 01:33:26,507
methodology. Uh, Tyler used the

3174
01:33:28,224 --> 01:33:28,474
cost method, sales method,

3175
01:33:30,491 --> 01:33:30,741
income approach. Um, so similar

3176
01:33:32,324 --> 01:33:32,574
to, I think all three counties,

3177
01:33:34,424 --> 01:33:34,674
Tyler did, did the processes,

3178
01:33:36,324 --> 01:33:36,574
They're going to use similar

3179
01:33:36,991 --> 01:33:37,241
processes in all three counties,

3180
01:33:40,257 --> 01:33:40,507
so that's, that should be a good

3181
01:33:40,957 --> 01:33:41,207
thing.

3182
01:33:42,491 --> 01:33:42,741
Right. State your quality

3183
01:33:44,457 --> 01:33:44,707
control checks completed.

3184
01:33:46,357 --> 01:33:46,607
quality standards, benchmarks,

3185
01:33:48,191 --> 01:33:48,441
and tax roll review and

3186
01:33:48,691 --> 01:33:48,941
certification for prior

3187
01:33:52,224 --> 01:33:52,474
assessments. All evaluations

3188
01:33:52,891 --> 01:33:53,141
done by Tyler's staff went

3189
01:33:54,357 --> 01:33:54,607
through a two-step verification

3190
01:33:56,291 --> 01:33:56,541
process before finalizing the

3191
01:33:58,457 --> 01:33:58,707
data in the Cus system. Tyler

3192
01:34:00,457 --> 01:34:00,707
completed a formal sales ratio

3193
01:34:04,291 --> 01:34:04,541
study. Per the contract, IAAO

3194
01:34:04,924 --> 01:34:05,174
performance standards uh were

3195
01:34:08,391 --> 01:34:08,641
used in to be met, single family

3196
01:34:10,524 --> 01:34:10,774
residential over 15 years, and I

3197
01:34:11,224 --> 01:34:11,474
can go through all these.

3198
01:34:12,457 --> 01:34:12,707
But it's, it's pretty much they

3199
01:34:14,391 --> 01:34:14,641
looked at IAAO standards on

3200
01:34:16,424 --> 01:34:16,674
ratios. I think you all have

3201
01:34:18,457 --> 01:34:18,707
probably seen some of these, um,

3202
01:34:22,291 --> 01:34:22,541
but I'm not going to read all

3203
01:34:22,924 --> 01:34:23,174
this out.

3204
01:34:23,174 --> 01:34:23,424
Um,

3205
01:34:26,391 --> 01:34:26,641
And it kind of goes on here. Uh,

3206
01:34:30,257 --> 01:34:30,507
Sussex sat with Tyler project

3207
01:34:32,191 --> 01:34:32,441
leaders going over the results

3208
01:34:34,291 --> 01:34:34,541
of the ratio studies, Sussex

3209
01:34:36,191 --> 01:34:36,441
performed multiple independent

3210
01:34:38,257 --> 01:34:38,507
checks on data by pulling

3211
01:34:38,857 --> 01:34:39,107
similar properties.

3212
01:34:42,191 --> 01:34:42,441
Um, and comparing results and

3213
01:34:42,857 --> 01:34:43,107
pulling all properties with

3214
01:34:44,224 --> 01:34:44,474
certain characteristics to make

3215
01:34:44,857 --> 01:34:45,107
sure appropriate classifications

3216
01:34:46,524 --> 01:34:46,774
were identified, so lots of

3217
01:34:48,424 --> 01:34:48,674
quality control going on,

3218
01:34:50,491 --> 01:34:50,741
looking for outliers, looking

3219
01:34:52,291 --> 01:34:52,541
for properties that don't feel

3220
01:34:52,891 --> 01:34:53,141
like they fit, um, that kind of

3221
01:34:53,624 --> 01:34:53,874
thing.

3222
01:34:56,524 --> 01:34:56,774
What approach of value were

3223
01:35:00,324 --> 01:35:00,574
generally utilized um for each

3224
01:35:00,991 --> 01:35:01,241
of the following property types.

3225
01:35:02,324 --> 01:35:02,574
We already talked about this

3226
01:35:04,524 --> 01:35:04,774
also, um, residential marketing

3227
01:35:06,624 --> 01:35:06,874
costs are generally, um, the

3228
01:35:08,424 --> 01:35:08,674
most applicable on the

3229
01:35:10,424 --> 01:35:10,674
commercial costs and income are

3230
01:35:12,591 --> 01:35:12,841
typically um where you've got

3231
01:35:14,357 --> 01:35:14,607
most of your data, a lot of

3232
01:35:16,357 --> 01:35:16,607
commercial property owners, they

3233
01:35:18,224 --> 01:35:18,474
buy it based on its income

3234
01:35:18,791 --> 01:35:19,041
producing property or

3235
01:35:20,657 --> 01:35:20,907
or properties, and so, um, you

3236
01:35:24,257 --> 01:35:24,507
know, market is, is typically

3237
01:35:24,891 --> 01:35:25,141
used as a check against the

3238
01:35:25,457 --> 01:35:25,707
other, um.

3239
01:35:30,324 --> 01:35:30,574
Approaches just to make sure

3240
01:35:32,491 --> 01:35:32,741
they're in line. So identify

3241
01:35:34,457 --> 01:35:34,707
challenges, lessons learned, and

3242
01:35:36,424 --> 01:35:36,674
issues for working group review.

3243
01:35:38,457 --> 01:35:38,707
The last reassessment presented

3244
01:35:40,257 --> 01:35:40,507
several significant challenges,

3245
01:35:40,891 --> 01:35:41,141
including the following public

3246
01:35:42,524 --> 01:35:42,774
understanding and expectations.

3247
01:35:44,457 --> 01:35:44,707
You know, it's like, why would

3248
01:35:46,357 --> 01:35:46,607
the public have a good

3249
01:35:48,257 --> 01:35:48,507
understanding or expectations of

3250
01:35:48,957 --> 01:35:49,207
what's going on when it's been

3251
01:35:50,491 --> 01:35:50,741
that long, right? So you're,

3252
01:35:52,524 --> 01:35:52,774
they, you know, they're really

3253
01:35:53,191 --> 01:35:53,441
starting from scratch.

3254
01:35:56,224 --> 01:35:56,474
Uh, understanding countywide

3255
01:35:56,891 --> 01:35:57,141
property records after 50 years.

3256
01:36:00,391 --> 01:36:00,641
Without a reassessment. So yeah,

3257
01:36:02,224 --> 01:36:02,474
I could see where that would be

3258
01:36:04,357 --> 01:36:04,607
challenging. Um, we learned that

3259
01:36:06,291 --> 01:36:06,541
communication is key. We held

3260
01:36:08,324 --> 01:36:08,574
public meetings, regular council

3261
01:36:08,991 --> 01:36:09,241
updates, spoke at events when

3262
01:36:10,424 --> 01:36:10,674
asked, developed and published

3263
01:36:12,324 --> 01:36:12,574
multiple videos that helped

3264
01:36:12,924 --> 01:36:13,174
explain the reassessment

3265
01:36:14,591 --> 01:36:14,841
process, potential impacts on

3266
01:36:16,591 --> 01:36:16,841
taxes, developed a tax

3267
01:36:20,224 --> 01:36:20,474
estimator, and once rates became

3268
01:36:22,257 --> 01:36:22,507
available in in-depth tax

3269
01:36:22,857 --> 01:36:23,107
calculators showing the impact

3270
01:36:24,524 --> 01:36:24,774
of reassessments at the parcel

3271
01:36:25,224 --> 01:36:25,474
level.

3272
01:36:26,391 --> 01:36:26,641
It's all good.

3273
01:36:30,424 --> 01:36:30,674
Alright, um, identify challenges

3274
01:36:32,524 --> 01:36:32,774
continued throughout the

3275
01:36:34,324 --> 01:36:34,574
process. We also took the

3276
01:36:34,824 --> 01:36:35,074
opportunity to continually

3277
01:36:36,424 --> 01:36:36,674
review and test the data for

3278
01:36:38,457 --> 01:36:38,707
accuracy and consistency. We

3279
01:36:40,424 --> 01:36:40,674
analyze differences in values

3280
01:36:42,491 --> 01:36:42,741
among properties with similar

3281
01:36:44,357 --> 01:36:44,607
characteristics and within

3282
01:36:46,224 --> 01:36:46,474
comparable neighborhoods, while

3283
01:36:48,324 --> 01:36:48,574
also reviewing prior year data

3284
01:36:50,591 --> 01:36:50,841
against the proposed post uh

3285
01:36:52,491 --> 01:36:52,741
reassessment values. This

3286
01:36:54,557 --> 01:36:54,807
comprehensive review and testing

3287
01:36:56,691 --> 01:36:56,941
process helped validate the

3288
01:36:57,257 --> 01:36:57,507
results and provided.

3289
01:37:00,224 --> 01:37:00,474
Confidence in the overall

3290
01:37:00,724 --> 01:37:00,974
outcome of the reassessment.

3291
01:37:06,357 --> 01:37:06,607
How could the state support your

3292
01:37:08,291 --> 01:37:08,541
county in the next reassessment,

3293
01:37:10,424 --> 01:37:10,674
OK? So reevaluate the five-year

3294
01:37:14,191 --> 01:37:14,441
requirement, uh, assist in

3295
01:37:16,224 --> 01:37:16,474
paying for the ongoing costs. It

3296
01:37:20,491 --> 01:37:20,741
seems vague. What were you

3297
01:37:21,057 --> 01:37:21,307
getting at, Gina?

3298
01:37:21,457 --> 01:37:21,707
beat around the bush.

3299
01:37:24,224 --> 01:37:24,474
All right, Sussex, what did I

3300
01:37:24,824 --> 01:37:25,074
miss?

3301
01:37:26,391 --> 01:37:26,641
Did I miss anything? Great job.

3302
01:37:28,591 --> 01:37:28,841
No, good job. Anything else you

3303
01:37:30,557 --> 01:37:30,807
wanna add though about anything

3304
01:37:32,624 --> 01:37:32,874
you saw specifically with the um

3305
01:37:34,557 --> 01:37:34,807
recommendations from New Castle

3306
01:37:36,524 --> 01:37:36,774
County, um, well, we can go

3307
01:37:38,457 --> 01:37:38,707
through that in the future, but

3308
01:37:40,224 --> 01:37:40,474
yeah, we'll think about because

3309
01:37:40,857 --> 01:37:41,107
I think I think all these are,

3310
01:37:41,524 --> 01:37:41,774
yeah.

3311
01:37:44,224 --> 01:37:44,474
I think all of these

3312
01:37:44,657 --> 01:37:44,907
recommendations from the

3313
01:37:46,324 --> 01:37:46,574
counties, I think this group

3314
01:37:48,424 --> 01:37:48,674
should at least discuss whether

3315
01:37:52,324 --> 01:37:52,574
it's something that they should

3316
01:37:53,024 --> 01:37:53,274
discuss further.

3317
01:37:56,357 --> 01:37:56,607
OK. Kent County responses to

3318
01:37:57,024 --> 01:37:57,274
questions. So provide an

3319
01:37:58,324 --> 01:37:58,574
overview of administrative

3320
01:38:00,324 --> 01:38:00,574
capacity, governance structure.

3321
01:38:02,324 --> 01:38:02,574
Um, the county had some

3322
01:38:02,857 --> 01:38:03,107
questions on this, and we, we're

3323
01:38:06,257 --> 01:38:06,507
on such a tight time frame that

3324
01:38:08,224 --> 01:38:08,474
we didn't, they didn't have an

3325
01:38:10,324 --> 01:38:10,574
opportunity to answer and so I

3326
01:38:14,224 --> 01:38:14,474
totally fair. OK, I'm not, I

3327
01:38:16,224 --> 01:38:16,474
think that's fine. Um, provide

3328
01:38:18,291 --> 01:38:18,541
an overview of, plus that

3329
01:38:18,824 --> 01:38:19,074
question was kind of broad, so,

3330
01:38:19,524 --> 01:38:19,774
um.

3331
01:38:20,524 --> 01:38:20,774
It, it can be a little hard to

3332
01:38:24,191 --> 01:38:24,441
answer. Uh, provide an overview

3333
01:38:24,891 --> 01:38:25,141
of county and vendor roles,

3334
01:38:26,224 --> 01:38:26,474
responsibilities, and mass

3335
01:38:28,291 --> 01:38:28,541
appraisal, including counting

3336
01:38:30,224 --> 01:38:30,474
staff oversight, compare your

3337
01:38:30,824 --> 01:38:31,074
prior reassessment to outset of

3338
01:38:32,191 --> 01:38:32,441
county and vendor roles,

3339
01:38:32,791 --> 01:38:33,041
responsibilities, and mass

3340
01:38:33,357 --> 01:38:33,607
appraisal, including counting

3341
01:38:34,057 --> 01:38:34,307
staff oversight, compare your

3342
01:38:34,624 --> 01:38:34,874
prior reassessment to the outset

3343
01:38:35,324 --> 01:38:35,574
of current status. Um, so there

3344
01:38:36,257 --> 01:38:36,507
was consistent communication

3345
01:38:36,891 --> 01:38:37,141
between the vendor and the

3346
01:38:38,357 --> 01:38:38,607
county staff. The vendor found

3347
01:38:40,391 --> 01:38:40,641
issues, areas of concern, and

3348
01:38:42,357 --> 01:38:42,607
immediately communicated these

3349
01:38:42,991 --> 01:38:43,241
to the finance director and

3350
01:38:44,557 --> 01:38:44,807
assessment supervisor. These two

3351
01:38:46,457 --> 01:38:46,707
county staff members were

3352
01:38:48,324 --> 01:38:48,574
heavily involved in all the

3353
01:38:48,924 --> 01:38:49,174
aspects of the reassessment

3354
01:38:49,524 --> 01:38:49,774
process.

3355
01:38:52,191 --> 01:38:52,441
The project manager from Tyler.

3356
01:38:54,591 --> 01:38:54,841
Post reassessment, the assessors

3357
01:38:56,457 --> 01:38:56,707
were collecting data and

3358
01:38:58,257 --> 01:38:58,507
generating values on.

3359
01:39:02,157 --> 01:39:02,407
The data their oversight came

3360
01:39:06,324 --> 01:39:06,574
from the two supervisors and the

3361
01:39:07,024 --> 01:39:07,274
finance director.

3362
01:39:08,424 --> 01:39:08,674
Right, state your appraisal

3363
01:39:10,357 --> 01:39:10,607
methodology, quality control

3364
01:39:12,157 --> 01:39:12,407
checks completed, quality

3365
01:39:12,691 --> 01:39:12,941
standards, benchmarks, and tax

3366
01:39:14,491 --> 01:39:14,741
roll review and certification

3367
01:39:18,224 --> 01:39:18,474
for prior assessment. Again, the

3368
01:39:20,224 --> 01:39:20,474
county was working on that, but

3369
01:39:20,891 --> 01:39:21,141
it's, you know, kind of a broad

3370
01:39:21,557 --> 01:39:21,807
question they.

3371
01:39:24,224 --> 01:39:24,474
We kind of ran out of time on

3372
01:39:26,191 --> 01:39:26,441
that one, so there was a lot of

3373
01:39:26,857 --> 01:39:27,107
back and forth between.

3374
01:39:32,224 --> 01:39:32,474
Uh, the county and myself, so,

3375
01:39:32,891 --> 01:39:33,141
um, anyway.

3376
01:39:36,224 --> 01:39:36,474
All right, um, what approaches

3377
01:39:38,491 --> 01:39:38,741
to value were uh generated or

3378
01:39:40,557 --> 01:39:40,807
utilized for each of the

3379
01:39:44,224 --> 01:39:44,474
following property types. So

3380
01:39:44,891 --> 01:39:45,141
there again, um.

3381
01:39:46,557 --> 01:39:46,807
Pretty, pretty similar answers

3382
01:39:48,291 --> 01:39:48,541
here to the other two counties.

3383
01:39:52,457 --> 01:39:52,707
Identify challenges, lessons

3384
01:39:54,324 --> 01:39:54,574
learned, and issues for the

3385
01:39:54,924 --> 01:39:55,174
working group to review. So no

3386
01:39:56,357 --> 01:39:56,607
major challenges. Our biggest

3387
01:39:58,491 --> 01:39:58,741
issue is mobile homes on private

3388
01:40:00,357 --> 01:40:00,607
land, sometimes the old mobile

3389
01:40:02,324 --> 01:40:02,574
home information remained on the

3390
01:40:06,224 --> 01:40:06,474
suffix in the which is, it's

3391
01:40:06,891 --> 01:40:07,141
kind of a way of keeping track

3392
01:40:10,257 --> 01:40:10,507
of things. Um, and Tyler added

3393
01:40:12,224 --> 01:40:12,474
the mobile home info on the

3394
01:40:14,324 --> 01:40:14,574
land, so it's duplicated. We

3395
01:40:16,324 --> 01:40:16,574
know to check this issue in the

3396
01:40:18,557 --> 01:40:18,807
future when found notices we

3397
01:40:19,157 --> 01:40:19,407
were removed immediately and

3398
01:40:19,757 --> 01:40:20,007
made taxes.

3399
01:40:22,324 --> 01:40:22,574
Adjustment. So when you're

3400
01:40:24,291 --> 01:40:24,541
putting stuff into a, into a CAA

3401
01:40:24,957 --> 01:40:25,207
Adjustment. So when you're

3402
01:40:25,591 --> 01:40:25,841
putting stuff into a, into a

3403
01:40:26,157 --> 01:40:26,407
camera software system. You

3404
01:40:26,757 --> 01:40:27,007
know, there's always potential

3405
01:40:28,391 --> 01:40:28,641
for, you know, well, this wasn't

3406
01:40:30,424 --> 01:40:30,674
coded in the right way or the

3407
01:40:32,391 --> 01:40:32,641
right place, or we didn't

3408
01:40:32,924 --> 01:40:33,174
understand that it was, so we

3409
01:40:34,624 --> 01:40:34,874
didn't see it the right way. So

3410
01:40:36,324 --> 01:40:36,574
there's always learning, and it

3411
01:40:36,957 --> 01:40:37,207
doesn't matter if you've been

3412
01:40:38,257 --> 01:40:38,507
doing this. This is your first

3413
01:40:40,257 --> 01:40:40,507
time in 40 years or you've been

3414
01:40:40,991 --> 01:40:41,241
doing it every year for 40

3415
01:40:44,391 --> 01:40:44,641
years. Um, you're always finding

3416
01:40:45,091 --> 01:40:45,341
issues like this, so

3417
01:40:45,524 --> 01:40:45,774
that's

3418
01:40:48,357 --> 01:40:48,607
To be expected, and they, it

3419
01:40:49,024 --> 01:40:49,274
sounds like they got it fixed,

3420
01:40:49,657 --> 01:40:49,907
so that's good.

3421
01:40:50,424 --> 01:40:50,674
Um,

3422
01:40:54,257 --> 01:40:54,507
How could the state support your

3423
01:40:54,991 --> 01:40:55,241
county in the next reassessment,

3424
01:40:56,491 --> 01:40:56,741
provide funding, the biggest

3425
01:40:57,091 --> 01:40:57,341
How could the state support your

3426
01:40:57,824 --> 01:40:58,074
county in the next reassessment,

3427
01:40:58,557 --> 01:40:58,807
provide funding. The the biggest

3428
01:40:59,257 --> 01:40:59,507
benefit uh factor of the

3429
01:41:00,291 --> 01:41:00,541
reassessment is the schools, all

3430
01:41:00,991 --> 01:41:01,241
the work and complaints are

3431
01:41:02,524 --> 01:41:02,774
handled by the county staff, and

3432
01:41:04,457 --> 01:41:04,707
we feel the state should have

3433
01:41:08,291 --> 01:41:08,541
monetary skin in the game.

3434
01:41:10,324 --> 01:41:10,574
I just want to state for the

3435
01:41:10,991 --> 01:41:11,241
record the counties did not

3436
01:41:12,457 --> 01:41:12,707
collaborate

3437
01:41:14,224 --> 01:41:14,474
on that.

3438
01:41:14,524 --> 01:41:14,774
they didn't.

3439
01:41:18,224 --> 01:41:18,474
We actually sent the

3440
01:41:20,224 --> 01:41:20,474
questionnaires out separately to

3441
01:41:20,924 --> 01:41:21,174
each of them, so they didn't see

3442
01:41:21,657 --> 01:41:21,907
each other's answers at all.

3443
01:41:24,224 --> 01:41:24,474
OK.

3444
01:41:24,624 --> 01:41:24,874
Uh, Kent, did I miss anything?

3445
01:41:26,457 --> 01:41:26,707
OK.

3446
01:41:28,324 --> 01:41:28,574
OK.

3447
01:41:30,491 --> 01:41:30,741
Alright, how can the state help?

3448
01:41:36,191 --> 01:41:36,441
All right, so IAAO has a

3449
01:41:38,457 --> 01:41:38,707
standard on this. So, um, and

3450
01:41:40,391 --> 01:41:40,641
from the county's perspective, I

3451
01:41:42,257 --> 01:41:42,507
know this says oversight, and

3452
01:41:44,191 --> 01:41:44,441
that can be a little scary, but

3453
01:41:46,257 --> 01:41:46,507
let's think of this more as like

3454
01:41:46,891 --> 01:41:47,141
support, um.

3455
01:41:48,524 --> 01:41:48,774
I know I, I had a lot of

3456
01:41:50,591 --> 01:41:50,841
interactions with, uh, state.

3457
01:41:54,391 --> 01:41:54,641
Um, in Kansas, it's a property

3458
01:41:56,357 --> 01:41:56,607
valuation division of the

3459
01:41:58,324 --> 01:41:58,574
Department of Revenue, and they

3460
01:42:00,224 --> 01:42:00,474
had a staff and they would run

3461
01:42:00,891 --> 01:42:01,141
quality control checks on what

3462
01:42:02,424 --> 01:42:02,674
we were doing, and they would

3463
01:42:04,324 --> 01:42:04,574
say, you know, and we would

3464
01:42:06,324 --> 01:42:06,574
submit things to them, and they

3465
01:42:08,491 --> 01:42:08,741
would handle education and help

3466
01:42:10,357 --> 01:42:10,607
us out with forms and help us

3467
01:42:12,624 --> 01:42:12,874
out with reports and help us out

3468
01:42:16,491 --> 01:42:16,741
with uh Cra support and just

3469
01:42:18,524 --> 01:42:18,774
training and everything. And so

3470
01:42:20,391 --> 01:42:20,641
it was more, it was an

3471
01:42:20,924 --> 01:42:21,174
adversarial relationship. It was

3472
01:42:21,657 --> 01:42:21,907
more

3473
01:42:24,424 --> 01:42:24,674
a relationship of, it was almost

3474
01:42:26,391 --> 01:42:26,641
like an extension of the the

3475
01:42:28,524 --> 01:42:28,774
county assessor's Office, and so

3476
01:42:30,391 --> 01:42:30,641
we worked with them, uh, you

3477
01:42:32,424 --> 01:42:32,674
know, a lot to, to make sure

3478
01:42:33,057 --> 01:42:33,307
things were getting done

3479
01:42:36,191 --> 01:42:36,441
properly. Um, I really looked at

3480
01:42:36,824 --> 01:42:37,074
him as a county appraiser, I

3481
01:42:38,324 --> 01:42:38,574
looked at him as an extension of

3482
01:42:40,224 --> 01:42:40,474
my office as far as quality

3483
01:42:40,824 --> 01:42:41,074
control checks too, because not

3484
01:42:42,391 --> 01:42:42,641
only am I checking things

3485
01:42:44,257 --> 01:42:44,507
in-house? They're checking

3486
01:42:44,857 --> 01:42:45,107
things, um, from their

3487
01:42:46,557 --> 01:42:46,807
perspective too, and I thought

3488
01:42:48,224 --> 01:42:48,474
that was good because we always

3489
01:42:50,224 --> 01:42:50,474
want our values to be as good as

3490
01:42:50,891 --> 01:42:51,141
possible, and so, uh, the more

3491
01:42:51,624 --> 01:42:51,874
quality control checks.

3492
01:42:54,224 --> 01:42:54,474
Some more eyes on things, you

3493
01:42:54,891 --> 01:42:55,141
know, if there's something

3494
01:42:55,457 --> 01:42:55,707
wrong, I want to know about it.

3495
01:42:58,591 --> 01:42:58,841
So, um, anyway, IWO is standard

3496
01:43:00,357 --> 01:43:00,607
on this, uh, complex property

3497
01:43:02,324 --> 01:43:02,574
evaluation assistance. So, let's

3498
01:43:04,224 --> 01:43:04,474
say your county has a, and I

3499
01:43:04,891 --> 01:43:05,141
don't know what it has, you

3500
01:43:06,491 --> 01:43:06,741
know, let's say it has a, um,

3501
01:43:10,291 --> 01:43:10,541
you know, a power plant, and you

3502
01:43:10,957 --> 01:43:11,207
know, maybe there's only a few

3503
01:43:12,524 --> 01:43:12,774
power plants in the whole state.

3504
01:43:14,424 --> 01:43:14,674
It might be that that's

3505
01:43:16,291 --> 01:43:16,541
something good for maybe the

3506
01:43:18,491 --> 01:43:18,741
state hires a fee appraiser to

3507
01:43:20,591 --> 01:43:20,841
to do a power plant evaluation

3508
01:43:21,291 --> 01:43:21,541
project and they.

3509
01:43:24,191 --> 01:43:24,441
all three of the power plants,

3510
01:43:24,824 --> 01:43:25,074
so the county doesn't really

3511
01:43:26,357 --> 01:43:26,607
have to worry about that. It's

3512
01:43:28,224 --> 01:43:28,474
gonna probably be cheaper for

3513
01:43:30,224 --> 01:43:30,474
the state to hire one appraiser

3514
01:43:32,191 --> 01:43:32,441
to value all 3 power plants,

3515
01:43:34,257 --> 01:43:34,507
then each county to go out and,

3516
01:43:36,191 --> 01:43:36,441
and have an appraiser that they

3517
01:43:38,257 --> 01:43:38,507
have to hire to, to value a

3518
01:43:38,791 --> 01:43:39,041
PowerPoint. So,

3519
01:43:40,557 --> 01:43:40,807
um

3520
01:43:40,807 --> 01:43:41,057
all three of the power plants,

3521
01:43:41,324 --> 01:43:41,574
so the county doesn't really

3522
01:43:41,924 --> 01:43:42,174
have to worry about that. It's

3523
01:43:42,624 --> 01:43:42,874
gonna probably be cheaper for

3524
01:43:43,291 --> 01:43:43,541
the state to hire one appraiser

3525
01:43:44,024 --> 01:43:44,274
to value all 3 power plants,

3526
01:43:44,624 --> 01:43:44,874
then each county to go out and

3527
01:43:45,324 --> 01:43:45,574
and have an appraiser that they

3528
01:43:46,024 --> 01:43:46,274
have to hire to, to value a

3529
01:43:46,591 --> 01:43:46,841
PowerPoint. So,

3530
01:43:46,957 --> 01:43:47,207
um.

3531
01:43:47,207 --> 01:43:47,457
all three of the power plants,

3532
01:43:47,824 --> 01:43:48,074
so the county doesn't really

3533
01:43:48,424 --> 01:43:48,674
have to worry about that. It's

3534
01:43:49,124 --> 01:43:49,374
gonna probably be cheaper for

3535
01:43:49,724 --> 01:43:49,974
the state to hire one appraiser

3536
01:43:50,424 --> 01:43:50,674
to value all 3 power plants,

3537
01:43:50,991 --> 01:43:51,241
then each county to go out and

3538
01:43:51,691 --> 01:43:51,941
and have an appraiser that they

3539
01:43:52,391 --> 01:43:52,641
have to hire to, to value a

3540
01:43:52,991 --> 01:43:53,241
PowerPoint. So,

3541
01:43:53,357 --> 01:43:53,607
what now? Power plants are a

3542
01:43:53,957 --> 01:43:54,207
sore subject at this point.

3543
01:43:54,557 --> 01:43:54,807
Yeah, yeah, I'm sure. So that's

3544
01:43:55,291 --> 01:43:55,541
the reason I'm saying, you know,

3545
01:43:55,991 --> 01:43:56,241
some of those things can be nice

3546
01:43:56,757 --> 01:43:57,007
though, because, um.

3547
01:43:57,157 --> 01:43:57,407
Because

3548
01:43:57,407 --> 01:43:57,657
those types of properties, these

3549
01:43:58,057 --> 01:43:58,307
high dollar, you know, $100

3550
01:43:58,691 --> 01:43:58,941
million dollar properties,

3551
01:44:00,257 --> 01:44:00,507
billion dollar properties are

3552
01:44:00,891 --> 01:44:01,141
going to get appealed pretty

3553
01:44:02,457 --> 01:44:02,707
well every year. Whether the

3554
01:44:04,324 --> 01:44:04,574
values are good or not, they're

3555
01:44:06,191 --> 01:44:06,441
gonna come in and appeal them,

3556
01:44:08,524 --> 01:44:08,774
um, and, and so, you know, the,

3557
01:44:10,491 --> 01:44:10,741
the counties have to be ready

3558
01:44:12,624 --> 01:44:12,874
for that, and so, um, you know,

3559
01:44:14,324 --> 01:44:14,574
you've, you've got to look at

3560
01:44:14,924 --> 01:44:15,174
some of those things. So it

3561
01:44:16,657 --> 01:44:16,907
can't help if the state kind of

3562
01:44:18,524 --> 01:44:18,774
assists on some of those bigger

3563
01:44:20,424 --> 01:44:20,674
expenditures like that. I mean,

3564
01:44:21,124 --> 01:44:21,374
you could easily spend, uh,

3565
01:44:24,224 --> 01:44:24,474
Um, you know, and the counties

3566
01:44:24,857 --> 01:44:25,107
can tell you, I mean, you can

3567
01:44:26,424 --> 01:44:26,674
easily spend 6 figures on an

3568
01:44:28,524 --> 01:44:28,774
appeal on a, on a billion dollar

3569
01:44:30,424 --> 01:44:30,674
property, and so it gets, it

3570
01:44:32,257 --> 01:44:32,507
gets pretty expensive when

3571
01:44:32,824 --> 01:44:33,074
you're looking at budgets and

3572
01:44:34,357 --> 01:44:34,607
you're trying to keep budgets

3573
01:44:36,291 --> 01:44:36,541
tight, but these things pop up

3574
01:44:38,591 --> 01:44:38,841
and, and it gets expensive, so,

3575
01:44:40,724 --> 01:44:40,974
um, education, certification of

3576
01:44:42,591 --> 01:44:42,841
assessment professionals, so,

3577
01:44:44,491 --> 01:44:44,741
and I don't remember. I think it

3578
01:44:46,257 --> 01:44:46,507
was Newcastle was talking about

3579
01:44:48,391 --> 01:44:48,641
having a certified assessor. So,

3580
01:44:50,224 --> 01:44:50,474
you know, and that, that might

3581
01:44:50,924 --> 01:44:51,174
be something that the state

3582
01:44:51,557 --> 01:44:51,807
wants to think about is.

3583
01:44:54,224 --> 01:44:54,474
Potentially saying, hey, you

3584
01:44:56,191 --> 01:44:56,441
know, to be, to be the, the head

3585
01:44:56,924 --> 01:44:57,174
person in charge, you need to

3586
01:44:58,591 --> 01:44:58,841
have these credentials or to

3587
01:45:00,357 --> 01:45:00,607
even value property within the

3588
01:45:02,224 --> 01:45:02,474
county, you need to have certain

3589
01:45:04,324 --> 01:45:04,574
credentials, um, and so that's

3590
01:45:06,224 --> 01:45:06,474
something that we see in, in

3591
01:45:06,891 --> 01:45:07,141
some other states and

3592
01:45:08,591 --> 01:45:08,841
jurisdictions, um, financial

3593
01:45:10,491 --> 01:45:10,741
assistance, cost sharing, we've

3594
01:45:12,391 --> 01:45:12,641
already talked about that forms

3595
01:45:13,091 --> 01:45:13,341
development. Sometimes there's

3596
01:45:16,391 --> 01:45:16,641
um different, you know, forms

3597
01:45:18,324 --> 01:45:18,574
that have to be filed when

3598
01:45:20,424 --> 01:45:20,674
someone, you know, buys a mobile

3599
01:45:21,124 --> 01:45:21,374
home or we talked about a sales

3600
01:45:21,824 --> 01:45:22,074
validation.

3601
01:45:24,224 --> 01:45:24,474
Questionnaire, maybe when

3602
01:45:24,791 --> 01:45:25,041
someone files a deed with the

3603
01:45:26,391 --> 01:45:26,641
title agency, they have to fill

3604
01:45:28,357 --> 01:45:28,607
out a sales validation

3605
01:45:30,224 --> 01:45:30,474
questionnaire. The state could,

3606
01:45:30,891 --> 01:45:31,141
could kind of generate that form

3607
01:45:32,457 --> 01:45:32,707
and make sure that all title

3608
01:45:34,557 --> 01:45:34,807
agencies have that form on file

3609
01:45:36,591 --> 01:45:36,841
and make sure that that's filled

3610
01:45:37,291 --> 01:45:37,541
out at closing.

3611
01:45:40,224 --> 01:45:40,474
That kind of thing, um,

3612
01:45:40,791 --> 01:45:41,041
guidelines, manuals,

3613
01:45:42,591 --> 01:45:42,841
specifications, so you've got

3614
01:45:44,524 --> 01:45:44,774
specialized properties. You want

3615
01:45:46,291 --> 01:45:46,541
to make sure they're valued

3616
01:45:48,224 --> 01:45:48,474
probably the same across the

3617
01:45:50,391 --> 01:45:50,641
state, right? And so if you had

3618
01:45:52,257 --> 01:45:52,507
some specialized property, it

3619
01:45:52,891 --> 01:45:53,141
might be that the state wants to

3620
01:45:54,457 --> 01:45:54,707
work with the counties and they

3621
01:45:56,191 --> 01:45:56,441
all want to get together and

3622
01:45:56,791 --> 01:45:57,041
say, OK, this is the way we're

3623
01:45:58,357 --> 01:45:58,607
going to value these properties,

3624
01:45:59,091 --> 01:45:59,341
so we're consistent across the

3625
01:46:00,491 --> 01:46:00,741
state. Uh,

3626
01:46:02,591 --> 01:46:02,841
uh, investigation, research of

3627
01:46:06,224 --> 01:46:06,474
taxpayer complaints, um, might

3628
01:46:06,924 --> 01:46:07,174
be a, a thing, uh, legal

3629
01:46:07,424 --> 01:46:07,674
legislative.

3630
01:46:10,591 --> 01:46:10,841
Responsibilities. So, um, it

3631
01:46:12,291 --> 01:46:12,541
might be that when the

3632
01:46:14,324 --> 01:46:14,574
legislature has questions, you

3633
01:46:16,224 --> 01:46:16,474
know, you've got someone at the

3634
01:46:16,891 --> 01:46:17,141
state that kind of has

3635
01:46:18,491 --> 01:46:18,741
commingled all that data, and

3636
01:46:22,224 --> 01:46:22,474
they can produce information for

3637
01:46:22,891 --> 01:46:23,141
the legislature,

3638
01:46:24,591 --> 01:46:24,841
uh, perform evaluations, so it

3639
01:46:26,424 --> 01:46:26,674
might be that the state does,

3640
01:46:28,457 --> 01:46:28,707
uh, their own sales ratio study

3641
01:46:30,524 --> 01:46:30,774
or they double-check that the

3642
01:46:32,624 --> 01:46:32,874
county's, um, you know, reviewed

3643
01:46:34,491 --> 01:46:34,741
all of the sales in their

3644
01:46:36,491 --> 01:46:36,741
jurisdiction in a in a certain

3645
01:46:37,124 --> 01:46:37,374
time frame or certain things.

3646
01:46:40,224 --> 01:46:40,474
Things like that, and sometimes,

3647
01:46:42,224 --> 01:46:42,474
like I said, it's, it's not the

3648
01:46:42,857 --> 01:46:43,107
state necessarily coming down on

3649
01:46:44,457 --> 01:46:44,707
the county. It's just making

3650
01:46:46,191 --> 01:46:46,441
sure that everything gets done

3651
01:46:46,857 --> 01:46:47,107
and it's kind of a QC process to

3652
01:46:48,457 --> 01:46:48,707
make sure everyone looks good on

3653
01:46:50,457 --> 01:46:50,707
the assessment process and the,

3654
01:46:52,524 --> 01:46:52,774
the citizens have a, a proper

3655
01:46:54,424 --> 01:46:54,674
process that's, that's happening

3656
01:46:56,391 --> 01:46:56,641
because maybe we don't have the

3657
01:46:58,224 --> 01:46:58,474
great professionals that are in

3658
01:46:58,924 --> 01:46:59,174
the county now, you know, later

3659
01:47:00,624 --> 01:47:00,874
on, and so we have to make sure

3660
01:47:02,557 --> 01:47:02,807
that things are done

3661
01:47:04,624 --> 01:47:04,874
consistently. Um, perform

3662
01:47:06,691 --> 01:47:06,941
evaluations. OK, I talked about

3663
01:47:07,324 --> 01:47:07,574
that. Professional associations.

3664
01:47:10,424 --> 01:47:10,674
Involvement, um, might be that

3665
01:47:12,191 --> 01:47:12,441
you have your own Delaware

3666
01:47:14,191 --> 01:47:14,441
Association of assessors, and

3667
01:47:16,257 --> 01:47:16,507
you kind of get together and do

3668
01:47:18,224 --> 01:47:18,474
education and talk about issues.

3669
01:47:20,257 --> 01:47:20,507
Um, you can have monthly Zoom

3670
01:47:20,924 --> 01:47:21,174
meetings and that kind of thing,

3671
01:47:22,524 --> 01:47:22,774
um, to kind of talk about

3672
01:47:24,324 --> 01:47:24,574
issues. I'm sure you all already

3673
01:47:26,557 --> 01:47:26,807
do a lot of that. Um, uh, public

3674
01:47:28,591 --> 01:47:28,841
relations programs, the state

3675
01:47:30,391 --> 01:47:30,641
could help out with that, um,

3676
01:47:32,291 --> 01:47:32,541
just kind of some cost sharings

3677
01:47:32,957 --> 01:47:33,207
Involvement, um, might be that

3678
01:47:33,624 --> 01:47:33,874
you have your own Delaware

3679
01:47:34,257 --> 01:47:34,507
Association of assessors, and

3680
01:47:34,857 --> 01:47:35,107
you kind of get together and do

3681
01:47:35,557 --> 01:47:35,807
education and talk about issues.

3682
01:47:36,257 --> 01:47:36,507
Um, you can have monthly Zoom

3683
01:47:36,824 --> 01:47:37,074
meetings and that kind of thing,

3684
01:47:37,524 --> 01:47:37,774
um, to kind of talk about

3685
01:47:38,091 --> 01:47:38,341
issues. I'm sure you all already

3686
01:47:38,791 --> 01:47:39,041
do a lot of that. Um, uh, public

3687
01:47:39,491 --> 01:47:39,741
relations programs, the state

3688
01:47:40,191 --> 01:47:40,441
could help out with that, um,

3689
01:47:40,791 --> 01:47:41,041
just kind of some cost sharing

3690
01:47:41,491 --> 01:47:41,741
or idea sharing, uh, technical

3691
01:47:42,124 --> 01:47:42,374
research reports, support and

3692
01:47:42,691 --> 01:47:42,941
assistance.

3693
01:47:42,957 --> 01:47:43,207
Um, so,

3694
01:47:43,207 --> 01:47:43,457
This was kind of some of the

3695
01:47:44,424 --> 01:47:44,674
things I had come up with to uh

3696
01:47:46,324 --> 01:47:46,574
state could require buyers and

3697
01:47:48,357 --> 01:47:48,607
sellers to file sales validation

3698
01:47:49,091 --> 01:47:49,341
questionnaire. We kind of talked

3699
01:47:50,424 --> 01:47:50,674
about this. Uh, it's common in

3700
01:47:54,257 --> 01:47:54,507
some states. Consider making uh

3701
01:47:56,224 --> 01:47:56,474
statutes consistent across the

3702
01:47:56,957 --> 01:47:57,207
state. I'm not sure, you know,

3703
01:47:58,691 --> 01:47:58,941
I, I'm coming from the outside

3704
01:48:00,357 --> 01:48:00,607
and I see that the statutes for

3705
01:48:01,024 --> 01:48:01,274
different counties are

3706
01:48:04,257 --> 01:48:04,507
different. Seems odd to me, but

3707
01:48:04,891 --> 01:48:05,141
I don't, you know, maybe there's

3708
01:48:06,357 --> 01:48:06,607
good reasons for some of that. I

3709
01:48:07,057 --> 01:48:07,307
don't know. Um,

3710
01:48:10,357 --> 01:48:10,607
But in, in, I would say in my

3711
01:48:12,324 --> 01:48:12,574
overall opinion, consistency

3712
01:48:14,224 --> 01:48:14,474
leads to greater equity and

3713
01:48:14,791 --> 01:48:15,041
clearer understanding of the

3714
01:48:16,524 --> 01:48:16,774
laws from the citizens if, if

3715
01:48:18,324 --> 01:48:18,574
things are different in

3716
01:48:18,857 --> 01:48:19,107
different counties, it can be a

3717
01:48:19,557 --> 01:48:19,807
little confusing.

3718
01:48:24,424 --> 01:48:24,674
Right, uh, states should

3719
01:48:26,291 --> 01:48:26,541
provide, uh, like general

3720
01:48:26,857 --> 01:48:27,107
support, statewide campus system

3721
01:48:28,524 --> 01:48:28,774
and tech support. If you, if you

3722
01:48:30,424 --> 01:48:30,674
are gonna go like everyone's

3723
01:48:32,424 --> 01:48:32,674
going with the same chemo. You

3724
01:48:34,357 --> 01:48:34,607
know, you could have a CA

3725
01:48:36,324 --> 01:48:36,574
contract with the state and then

3726
01:48:36,991 --> 01:48:37,241
the state could kind of help

3727
01:48:38,457 --> 01:48:38,707
orchestrate some of that and

3728
01:48:40,357 --> 01:48:40,607
make sure there's consistency,

3729
01:48:42,257 --> 01:48:42,507
tech support when there's

3730
01:48:44,257 --> 01:48:44,507
upgrades to software that could

3731
01:48:44,891 --> 01:48:45,141
kind of be managed through the

3732
01:48:46,324 --> 01:48:46,574
state. The counties could kind

3733
01:48:48,491 --> 01:48:48,741
of weigh in on on what upgrades

3734
01:48:50,524 --> 01:48:50,774
should be made, uh, training and

3735
01:48:51,191 --> 01:48:51,441
education, you know, a, a lot

3736
01:48:51,791 --> 01:48:52,041
of.

3737
01:48:54,324 --> 01:48:54,574
Of this is workflow, so it's.

3738
01:48:56,391 --> 01:48:56,641
How are you getting data into

3739
01:48:57,024 --> 01:48:57,274
the software? How are you

3740
01:48:58,424 --> 01:48:58,674
getting data out of the

3741
01:49:00,324 --> 01:49:00,574
software? How are you doing all

3742
01:49:02,391 --> 01:49:02,641
your processes, so, um, you

3743
01:49:04,524 --> 01:49:04,774
know, having training that's

3744
01:49:06,424 --> 01:49:06,674
consistent across the state can

3745
01:49:10,257 --> 01:49:10,507
help too, um, in many ways, uh,

3746
01:49:10,891 --> 01:49:11,141
reassessment support.

3747
01:49:12,457 --> 01:49:12,707
Uh, we already talked about

3748
01:49:14,424 --> 01:49:14,674
forms, special properties. We

3749
01:49:16,457 --> 01:49:16,707
talked about that, and then, uh,

3750
01:49:18,424 --> 01:49:18,674
assessment standards and quality

3751
01:49:19,124 --> 01:49:19,374
control.

3752
01:49:22,357 --> 01:49:22,607
All right.

3753
01:49:26,224 --> 01:49:26,474
Um, and we talked about data

3754
01:49:28,324 --> 01:49:28,574
aggregation already, um, you

3755
01:49:30,224 --> 01:49:30,474
know, kind of aggregating that

3756
01:49:30,891 --> 01:49:31,141
data from the county, so it's

3757
01:49:32,324 --> 01:49:32,574
all in one place, so it's a

3758
01:49:32,891 --> 01:49:33,141
little it it can be a

3759
01:49:36,524 --> 01:49:36,774
A good thing for the assessor's

3760
01:49:38,557 --> 01:49:38,807
offices in the counties for

3761
01:49:42,191 --> 01:49:42,441
sure, having read, you know,

3762
01:49:44,224 --> 01:49:44,474
more easy access to, to other

3763
01:49:46,291 --> 01:49:46,541
county data, um, you know, the

3764
01:49:48,224 --> 01:49:48,474
statewide sales database is one

3765
01:49:50,224 --> 01:49:50,474
of those things, uh, assessment

3766
01:49:52,324 --> 01:49:52,574
of utilities. Some states uh

3767
01:49:52,991 --> 01:49:53,241
handle the assessment of

3768
01:49:54,524 --> 01:49:54,774
utilities because the utilities

3769
01:49:56,424 --> 01:49:56,674
cross county lines and that kind

3770
01:49:58,491 --> 01:49:58,741
of thing, and uh utility

3771
01:49:59,057 --> 01:49:59,307
assessment.

3772
01:50:00,657 --> 01:50:00,907
Um, you know, a lot of times

3773
01:50:02,424 --> 01:50:02,674
it's, it's kind of a statewide

3774
01:50:04,224 --> 01:50:04,474
thing, and then you have to kind

3775
01:50:04,891 --> 01:50:05,141
of block it up and figure out

3776
01:50:06,524 --> 01:50:06,774
what portion goes to this county

3777
01:50:08,491 --> 01:50:08,741
and this county, and if you had

3778
01:50:10,557 --> 01:50:10,807
11 entity doing that, it might

3779
01:50:12,324 --> 01:50:12,574
simplify things somewhat.

3780
01:50:16,257 --> 01:50:16,507
Um, reassessment monitoring, you

3781
01:50:18,224 --> 01:50:18,474
know, just kind of making sure

3782
01:50:18,857 --> 01:50:19,107
all the T's are crossed, I's are

3783
01:50:20,591 --> 01:50:20,841
dotted on the reassessments, and

3784
01:50:24,224 --> 01:50:24,474
And we already talked about

3785
01:50:26,224 --> 01:50:26,474
public relations, so sorry to

3786
01:50:28,291 --> 01:50:28,541
beat a dead horse. Um, so

3787
01:50:28,857 --> 01:50:29,107
benefits of state support, um,

3788
01:50:32,291 --> 01:50:32,541
You know, the, the state taking

3789
01:50:32,991 --> 01:50:33,241
on certain responsibilities has

3790
01:50:33,691 --> 01:50:33,941
a.

3791
01:50:36,391 --> 01:50:36,641
The benefits of potentially

3792
01:50:38,391 --> 01:50:38,641
reducing costs could also shift

3793
01:50:40,291 --> 01:50:40,541
some of the cost load from the

3794
01:50:40,991 --> 01:50:41,241
counties to the state.

3795
01:50:44,191 --> 01:50:44,441
Um, which I guess depending on

3796
01:50:44,791 --> 01:50:45,041
your perspective, that could be

3797
01:50:48,257 --> 01:50:48,507
good or bad. Um, added benefits

3798
01:50:50,224 --> 01:50:50,474
include more consistent

3799
01:50:50,791 --> 01:50:51,041
processes across the state,

3800
01:50:52,557 --> 01:50:52,807
consistent processes and

3801
01:50:54,324 --> 01:50:54,574
messaging can help property

3802
01:50:56,224 --> 01:50:56,474
owners to better understand

3803
01:50:58,224 --> 01:50:58,474
processes, less appeals and

3804
01:50:58,791 --> 01:50:59,041
confusion. Uh, the state.

3805
01:51:00,591 --> 01:51:00,841
Could be an extension of the

3806
01:51:02,391 --> 01:51:02,641
county assessment office and

3807
01:51:04,491 --> 01:51:04,741
that some process could be

3808
01:51:05,057 --> 01:51:05,307
completed at the state level.

3809
01:51:10,224 --> 01:51:10,474
So supporting counties in the

3810
01:51:12,191 --> 01:51:12,441
reassessment process can help

3811
01:51:12,891 --> 01:51:13,141
make assessments more accurate,

3812
01:51:13,591 --> 01:51:13,841
more efficient.

3813
01:51:16,357 --> 01:51:16,607
Um, what can the state do to

3814
01:51:18,291 --> 01:51:18,541
make assessments more seamless,

3815
01:51:20,324 --> 01:51:20,574
you know, so just trying to

3816
01:51:20,891 --> 01:51:21,141
figure out, you know, these

3817
01:51:24,191 --> 01:51:24,441
different workflows, how this

3818
01:51:26,224 --> 01:51:26,474
works, um, how the state can

3819
01:51:26,891 --> 01:51:27,141
support that process to make

3820
01:51:30,224 --> 01:51:30,474
more equitable values, so all

3821
01:51:30,924 --> 01:51:31,174
your property owners are being

3822
01:51:32,324 --> 01:51:32,574
treated as fairly as possible.

3823
01:51:33,024 --> 01:51:33,274
It's important.

3824
01:51:34,457 --> 01:51:34,707
So I appreciate your time.

3825
01:51:36,257 --> 01:51:36,507
Um,

3826
01:51:38,491 --> 01:51:38,741
And it looks like we still have

3827
01:51:40,524 --> 01:51:40,774
9 minutes for questions or

3828
01:51:42,324 --> 01:51:42,574
anything else. Well, and, and

3829
01:51:44,191 --> 01:51:44,441
thank you. And again, thank you

3830
01:51:44,891 --> 01:51:45,141
for your patience for these last

3831
01:51:46,257 --> 01:51:46,507
two meetings that have been kind

3832
01:51:46,991 --> 01:51:47,241
of getting us to, OK.

3833
01:51:50,157 --> 01:51:50,407
Now we're gonna be looking

3834
01:51:52,424 --> 01:51:52,674
forward. um, Justin, um, showed

3835
01:51:54,424 --> 01:51:54,674
some of those on what the state

3836
01:51:56,257 --> 01:51:56,507
can offer. Think of that as a

3837
01:51:58,324 --> 01:51:58,574
menu, not a, not a, not a

3838
01:52:00,324 --> 01:52:00,574
mandate. Um, I don't want to

3839
01:52:02,291 --> 01:52:02,541
overcomplicate this. I don't

3840
01:52:02,891 --> 01:52:03,141
want to take away local control.

3841
01:52:04,491 --> 01:52:04,741
You guys know your property is

3842
01:52:08,224 --> 01:52:08,474
better than um than than the

3843
01:52:10,257 --> 01:52:10,507
state, um, but we do want to

3844
01:52:12,257 --> 01:52:12,507
look at figuring out how the

3845
01:52:12,891 --> 01:52:13,141
state can better support the

3846
01:52:14,657 --> 01:52:14,907
counties, um, and also just the

3847
01:52:16,291 --> 01:52:16,541
level of oversight that should

3848
01:52:16,957 --> 01:52:17,207
be there because.

3849
01:52:20,324 --> 01:52:20,574
It is, you know, it is bringing

3850
01:52:22,224 --> 01:52:22,474
in a lot of our, our property

3851
01:52:24,357 --> 01:52:24,607
tax for our, um, property yes

3852
01:52:24,991 --> 01:52:25,241
It is, you know, it is bringing

3853
01:52:25,691 --> 01:52:25,941
in a lot of our, our property

3854
01:52:26,291 --> 01:52:26,541
tax for our, um,

3855
01:52:26,657 --> 01:52:26,907
property brings in a lot of

3856
01:52:27,224 --> 01:52:27,474
money for our schools. So we're

3857
01:52:28,357 --> 01:52:28,607
going to be diving into in the

3858
01:52:30,257 --> 01:52:30,507
next meeting some of these

3859
01:52:32,291 --> 01:52:32,541
options and having conversations

3860
01:52:34,257 --> 01:52:34,507
really just about the solutions

3861
01:52:34,924 --> 01:52:35,174
and what do we want and to the

3862
01:52:36,591 --> 01:52:36,841
point that like as an example,

3863
01:52:38,624 --> 01:52:38,874
the sales, uh, $10 sales, do we

3864
01:52:40,391 --> 01:52:40,641
want legislation on that? Yay or

3865
01:52:42,257 --> 01:52:42,507
nay. Yeah, OK, we'll start

3866
01:52:44,424 --> 01:52:44,674
drafting. Things like that. Um,

3867
01:52:46,257 --> 01:52:46,507
we're going to talk about what

3868
01:52:46,957 --> 01:52:47,207
types of things you want us to

3869
01:52:47,591 --> 01:52:47,841
legislate versus, no, we want to

3870
01:52:48,291 --> 01:52:48,541
handle.

3871
01:52:50,257 --> 01:52:50,507
That within our policy because

3872
01:52:50,891 --> 01:52:51,141
policy is where we can best

3873
01:52:54,224 --> 01:52:54,474
pivot as needed based on um

3874
01:52:54,757 --> 01:52:55,007
different geographic changes in

3875
01:52:56,457 --> 01:52:56,707
our own counties, so, um.

3876
01:53:00,291 --> 01:53:00,541
No one has anything else. We

3877
01:53:00,857 --> 01:53:01,107
could go to public comment, but

3878
01:53:02,324 --> 01:53:02,574
if anyone has anything they'd

3879
01:53:02,924 --> 01:53:03,174
like to say.

3880
01:53:06,324 --> 01:53:06,574
The slides will be available to

3881
01:53:08,291 --> 01:53:08,541
us, yes, they'll be on the

3882
01:53:10,191 --> 01:53:10,441
uh legis website as,

3883
01:53:12,424 --> 01:53:12,674
yeah, yeah, we'll put it, but we

3884
01:53:13,124 --> 01:53:13,374
can also just send our box.

3885
01:53:14,557 --> 01:53:14,807
The last two slides or three,

3886
01:53:15,157 --> 01:53:15,407
whatever they were.

3887
01:53:18,257 --> 01:53:18,507
At that point in time, what I

3888
01:53:18,857 --> 01:53:19,107
really wanted to do was stay

3889
01:53:20,324 --> 01:53:20,574
paused, I think it's what you

3890
01:53:22,224 --> 01:53:22,474
said, and then say, all right,

3891
01:53:24,224 --> 01:53:24,474
we, what can we do to help him?

3892
01:53:24,891 --> 01:53:25,141
Yeah, right,

3893
01:53:26,391 --> 01:53:26,641
and that's absolutely when the

3894
01:53:27,057 --> 01:53:27,307
next meetings are going to be

3895
01:53:28,524 --> 01:53:28,774
going, um, we'll talk through,

3896
01:53:32,557 --> 01:53:32,807
um, a lot of, uh, the

3897
01:53:34,424 --> 01:53:34,674
suggestions and that Newcastle

3898
01:53:38,224 --> 01:53:38,474
County had, um, because I, it

3899
01:53:38,891 --> 01:53:39,141
was pretty comprehensive. And

3900
01:53:40,391 --> 01:53:40,641
then the very direct slides from

3901
01:53:42,257 --> 01:53:42,507
Kent and

3902
01:53:44,291 --> 01:53:44,541
more funding and how we can do

3903
01:53:44,891 --> 01:53:45,141
that and then we'll, we'll

3904
01:53:45,524 --> 01:53:45,774
probably start getting into the

3905
01:53:46,191 --> 01:53:46,441
conversation.

3906
01:53:48,224 --> 01:53:48,474
Too, one of the things you kept

3907
01:53:50,224 --> 01:53:50,474
hearing in some of the slides is

3908
01:53:52,257 --> 01:53:52,507
that, um, based on how other

3909
01:53:54,224 --> 01:53:54,474
states work, you know, where

3910
01:53:54,824 --> 01:53:55,074
that office sits or where that

3911
01:53:56,391 --> 01:53:56,641
person sits within oversight and

3912
01:53:58,257 --> 01:53:58,507
is it, would it make sense to

3913
01:53:58,924 --> 01:53:59,174
have be under the Department of

3914
01:54:00,324 --> 01:54:00,574
Finance and and start getting

3915
01:54:02,357 --> 01:54:02,607
into some of those

3916
01:54:02,724 --> 01:54:02,974
conversations, so.

3917
01:54:06,324 --> 01:54:06,574
Awesome, awesome. Yeah, I just

3918
01:54:08,224 --> 01:54:08,474
want to thank the co-chairs and

3919
01:54:08,891 --> 01:54:09,141
especially Justin for

3920
01:54:10,324 --> 01:54:10,574
Putting all this information

3921
01:54:10,957 --> 01:54:11,207
together, I know it's a lot to

3922
01:54:12,624 --> 01:54:12,874
absorb, uh, in a short time. So

3923
01:54:13,324 --> 01:54:13,574
thank you for that.

3924
01:54:16,324 --> 01:54:16,574
Thank you. All right, Kate,

3925
01:54:16,891 --> 01:54:17,141
we'll go to public comment and

3926
01:54:18,524 --> 01:54:18,774
then we will, um, so I will have

3927
01:54:22,224 --> 01:54:22,474
our, uh, speaker, um, put forth

3928
01:54:22,957 --> 01:54:23,207
the nominations for the two

3929
01:54:24,291 --> 01:54:24,541
people we agreed to have in the

3930
01:54:24,924 --> 01:54:25,174
working group, and then they'll

3931
01:54:26,457 --> 01:54:26,707
be active members next, next

3932
01:54:27,057 --> 01:54:27,307
time.

3933
01:54:32,357 --> 01:54:32,607
To Christian Millauer.

3934
01:54:36,324 --> 01:54:36,574
Hi, thanks for giving me the

3935
01:54:36,857 --> 01:54:37,107
opportunity to speak. Christian

3936
01:54:38,391 --> 01:54:38,641
Willauer, Wilmington City

3937
01:54:40,324 --> 01:54:40,574
Council, 5th District, and I

3938
01:54:40,957 --> 01:54:41,207
just had a couple of issues that

3939
01:54:44,291 --> 01:54:44,541
um I wanted to bring up. One was

3940
01:54:48,257 --> 01:54:48,507
land values are um assessed as a

3941
01:54:50,424 --> 01:54:50,674
separate category, and I hadn't

3942
01:54:52,224 --> 01:54:52,474
heard too much discussion about

3943
01:54:54,391 --> 01:54:54,641
land value assessments, but I

3944
01:54:56,291 --> 01:54:56,541
believe that land value

3945
01:54:56,824 --> 01:54:57,074
assessments, uh, there was

3946
01:54:58,524 --> 01:54:58,774
especially a lot of inaccuracy

3947
01:55:00,557 --> 01:55:00,807
in New Castle County around land

3948
01:55:02,357 --> 01:55:02,607
value assessments and I'm just

3949
01:55:03,057 --> 01:55:03,307
wondering what the uh process

3950
01:55:08,257 --> 01:55:08,507
Could be to improve those land

3951
01:55:10,224 --> 01:55:10,474
value assessments going forward

3952
01:55:10,924 --> 01:55:11,174
or just flag that as something

3953
01:55:14,324 --> 01:55:14,574
that needs attention. And the

3954
01:55:14,991 --> 01:55:15,241
second thing is, is in terms of

3955
01:55:15,691 --> 01:55:15,941
um

3956
01:55:16,491 --> 01:55:16,741
Property.

3957
01:55:20,524 --> 01:55:20,774
Improvements. I think where

3958
01:55:22,357 --> 01:55:22,607
property improvements really

3959
01:55:24,424 --> 01:55:24,674
comes into play is in places

3960
01:55:26,357 --> 01:55:26,607
where there's a lot of um

3961
01:55:28,524 --> 01:55:28,774
serious upgrading going on to

3962
01:55:29,224 --> 01:55:29,474
properties?

3963
01:55:32,391 --> 01:55:32,641
So that an unrenovated home is

3964
01:55:34,357 --> 01:55:34,607
purchased at, say, 80,000 and a

3965
01:55:34,991 --> 01:55:35,241
renovated home is purchased at

3966
01:55:38,591 --> 01:55:38,841
Say 200,000, and if you go into

3967
01:55:40,591 --> 01:55:40,841
a neighborhood like some of the

3968
01:55:41,257 --> 01:55:41,507
ones that I represent.

3969
01:55:44,224 --> 01:55:44,474
And you assess every property.

3970
01:55:46,457 --> 01:55:46,707
At the value of a renovated

3971
01:55:48,424 --> 01:55:48,674
property, it just doesn't

3972
01:55:50,324 --> 01:55:50,574
reflect the value of those

3973
01:55:52,524 --> 01:55:52,774
unrenovated properties. So I do

3974
01:55:54,457 --> 01:55:54,707
think it'd be important to

3975
01:55:56,524 --> 01:55:56,774
integrate building permit data

3976
01:55:57,224 --> 01:55:57,474
into

3977
01:56:00,357 --> 01:56:00,607
the assessment, um,

3978
01:56:04,257 --> 01:56:04,507
system and the great thing about

3979
01:56:04,891 --> 01:56:05,141
data models is you can include

3980
01:56:06,491 --> 01:56:06,741
variables like that. So I just

3981
01:56:10,224 --> 01:56:10,474
like to put a plug in or for

3982
01:56:12,257 --> 01:56:12,507
investigating ways that we can

3983
01:56:14,357 --> 01:56:14,607
have permitting data play a role

3984
01:56:15,091 --> 01:56:15,341
in

3985
01:56:16,357 --> 01:56:16,607
Getting more accurate

3986
01:56:16,891 --> 01:56:17,141
assessments for

3987
01:56:18,391 --> 01:56:18,641
Properties

3988
01:56:22,291 --> 01:56:22,541
That's it. Thank you.

3989
01:56:24,391 --> 01:56:24,641
Thank you, Christian. Anyone

3990
01:56:24,991 --> 01:56:25,241
else?

3991
01:56:26,424 --> 01:56:26,674
Sean

3992
01:56:32,324 --> 01:56:32,574
Sokolowaski.

3993
01:56:34,491 --> 01:56:34,741
Sean, can you hear us?

3994
01:56:44,424 --> 01:56:44,674
Sean?

3995
01:56:52,324 --> 01:56:52,574
You may have to um do like an

3996
01:56:52,924 --> 01:56:53,174
ask to unmute or something, is

3997
01:56:53,524 --> 01:56:53,774
that right?

3998
01:57:00,357 --> 01:57:00,607
John

3999
01:57:10,324 --> 01:57:10,574
Oh.

4000
01:57:14,457 --> 01:57:14,707
Yeah, he, it looks like I don't

4001
01:57:15,157 --> 01:57:15,407
know self back on mute or.

4002
01:57:18,357 --> 01:57:18,607
Um, I apologize, Shawn, um, uh,

4003
01:57:20,291 --> 01:57:20,541
you can,

4004
01:57:22,457 --> 01:57:22,707
um, send an email to

4005
01:57:24,457 --> 01:57:24,707
Catherine. Bowman@ Delaware.gov,

4006
01:57:25,124 --> 01:57:25,374
um,

4007
01:57:28,291 --> 01:57:28,541
Yeah, it looks like we keep

4008
01:57:28,857 --> 01:57:29,107
unmuting you and then it keeps

4009
01:57:30,257 --> 01:57:30,507
going back to mute, so.

4010
01:57:32,591 --> 01:57:32,841
Apologize, um, or you can send

4011
01:57:33,291 --> 01:57:33,541
me an email as well.

4012
01:57:38,224 --> 01:57:38,474
Yeah

4013
01:57:40,491 --> 01:57:40,741
OK, well, with no other, uh,

4014
01:57:42,557 --> 01:57:42,807
discussions. We are adjourned.

4015
01:57:44,357 --> 01:57:44,607
Thank you. And next week,

4016
01:57:46,324 --> 01:57:46,574
solutions, 2 weeks, 2 weeks from

4017
01:57:48,224 --> 01:57:48,474
now. Solutions. Thank you. Thank

4018
01:57:48,924 --> 01:57:49,174
you. Thank you, everybody. Thank

4019
01:57:50,524 --> 01:57:50,774
you. OK, thank you. Thank you.

4020
01:57:54,191 --> 01:57:54,441
Why does it get so cold in here.

4021
01:57:56,224 --> 01:57:56,474
It feels good, yeah. Yeah, I