1 00:01:58,661 --> 00:01:58,911 And, uh, 2 00:02:04,328 --> 00:02:04,578 So, I'm gonna read some typical 3 00:02:06,261 --> 00:02:06,511 opening remarks. Please be aware 4 00:02:06,961 --> 00:02:07,211 that there are microphones at 5 00:02:08,295 --> 00:02:08,545 your desk that will pick up 6 00:02:08,861 --> 00:02:09,111 conversations easily. 7 00:02:12,361 --> 00:02:12,611 Are we being recorded now? OK, 8 00:02:14,461 --> 00:02:14,711 and this is being recorded, um, 9 00:02:16,495 --> 00:02:16,745 these mics are connected to the 10 00:02:18,528 --> 00:02:18,778 live stream so the public may 11 00:02:19,128 --> 00:02:19,378 watch the proceedings. 12 00:02:22,361 --> 00:02:22,611 The property tax relief and 13 00:02:24,228 --> 00:02:24,478 modernization Working Group 14 00:02:26,395 --> 00:02:26,645 meeting is called to order in 15 00:02:28,328 --> 00:02:28,578 accordance with House rules, 16 00:02:30,261 --> 00:02:30,511 members of the public are able 17 00:02:30,895 --> 00:02:31,145 to participate either in person 18 00:02:32,561 --> 00:02:32,811 or virtually through Zoom 19 00:02:33,128 --> 00:02:33,378 Webinar. 20 00:02:36,295 --> 00:02:36,545 The public can participate 21 00:02:38,328 --> 00:02:38,578 virtually by registering through 22 00:02:40,228 --> 00:02:40,478 the meeting link posted on the 23 00:02:40,861 --> 00:02:41,111 General Assembly website. 24 00:02:44,261 --> 00:02:44,511 Instructions providing public 25 00:02:46,195 --> 00:02:46,445 comment are available on the 26 00:02:48,195 --> 00:02:48,445 website under this working 27 00:02:50,228 --> 00:02:50,478 group's meeting notice. Written 28 00:02:52,228 --> 00:02:52,478 comments may be submitted to 29 00:02:54,228 --> 00:02:54,478 Justin Doherty at Delaware.gov. 30 00:02:56,528 --> 00:02:56,778 Any comments received within 24 31 00:02:58,428 --> 00:02:58,678 hours after the hearing will be 32 00:03:00,261 --> 00:03:00,511 included in the public record. 33 00:03:02,528 --> 00:03:02,778 Members of the public physically 34 00:03:04,428 --> 00:03:04,678 present for the meeting may sign 35 00:03:06,428 --> 00:03:06,678 up on the speaker list located 36 00:03:07,095 --> 00:03:07,345 by the door of the hearing room. 37 00:03:10,261 --> 00:03:10,511 I'd like to begin today's 38 00:03:12,228 --> 00:03:12,478 meeting by taking roll call 39 00:03:16,261 --> 00:03:16,511 attendance to the members, um 40 00:03:16,828 --> 00:03:17,078 uh it's still see it. 41 00:03:18,428 --> 00:03:18,678 I don't know if that needs to 42 00:03:19,061 --> 00:03:19,311 be. 43 00:03:22,528 --> 00:03:22,778 Starting, 44 00:03:24,228 --> 00:03:24,478 OK. 45 00:03:26,361 --> 00:03:26,611 OK. 46 00:03:30,195 --> 00:03:30,445 We're just checking to make sure 47 00:03:30,961 --> 00:03:31,211 that that is actually the live 48 00:03:34,228 --> 00:03:34,478 stream is actually active. Uh, 49 00:03:36,328 --> 00:03:36,578 so we begin by taking roll call, 50 00:03:38,361 --> 00:03:38,611 uh, Frank Burns chair here. 51 00:03:42,228 --> 00:03:42,478 Send Senator Russ Huxtable, 52 00:03:42,828 --> 00:03:43,078 co-chair. I'm here. 53 00:03:46,195 --> 00:03:46,445 Representative Mike Smith had a 54 00:03:46,861 --> 00:03:47,111 family emergency this morning 55 00:03:48,495 --> 00:03:48,745 and emailed that he would not be 56 00:03:49,195 --> 00:03:49,445 in attendance. 57 00:03:52,295 --> 00:03:52,545 Senator Richardson, Senator 58 00:03:54,228 --> 00:03:54,478 Richard Senton. 59 00:03:54,561 --> 00:03:54,811 Senator Richardson, Senator 60 00:03:55,161 --> 00:03:55,411 Richardson, Senator, 61 00:03:55,628 --> 00:03:55,878 Richard Senton. 62 00:03:56,195 --> 00:03:56,445 That's, it's correct on the 63 00:03:58,161 --> 00:03:58,411 other side. Oh, OK. 64 00:04:00,295 --> 00:04:00,545 Good. Uh, 50/50. 65 00:04:00,628 --> 00:04:00,878 Senator Richardson, Senator 66 00:04:01,228 --> 00:04:01,478 Richard Senton. 67 00:04:01,595 --> 00:04:01,845 It's, it's cracked on the other 68 00:04:02,295 --> 00:04:02,545 side. Oh, OK. 69 00:04:02,561 --> 00:04:02,811 Good. Uh, 50-fifty. 70 00:04:04,561 --> 00:04:04,811 OK. So, uh, very good. Gina 71 00:04:06,261 --> 00:04:06,511 Jennings, here. Thank you. 72 00:04:08,228 --> 00:04:08,478 Susan Durham here. 73 00:04:10,361 --> 00:04:10,611 David Del Grande. 74 00:04:14,428 --> 00:04:14,678 Uh, Secretary Michael Smith, 75 00:04:16,328 --> 00:04:16,578 Secretary of Finance, 76 00:04:18,461 --> 00:04:18,711 not Newcastle. 77 00:04:20,561 --> 00:04:20,811 We've got a couple typos which 78 00:04:22,495 --> 00:04:22,745 we will deal with. Um, 79 00:04:26,428 --> 00:04:26,678 Deputy Director Anne Desaire. 80 00:04:27,028 --> 00:04:27,278 Deputy Director Anne Desali, 81 00:04:28,228 --> 00:04:28,478 Deputy Director Anne Desale, 82 00:04:28,861 --> 00:04:29,111 pregnant. All right, thank you. 83 00:04:32,328 --> 00:04:32,578 Steve Lucas, who is here, um, 84 00:04:34,528 --> 00:04:34,778 Jeff, Jeff Menzer is attending 85 00:04:36,461 --> 00:04:36,711 on his behalf. OK, great. Thank 86 00:04:37,195 --> 00:04:37,445 you. 87 00:04:44,295 --> 00:04:44,545 Uh, Mone Smith. 88 00:04:44,695 --> 00:04:44,945 Thank you. 89 00:04:46,461 --> 00:04:46,711 It's our own cage. 90 00:04:52,261 --> 00:04:52,511 Janelle Cornwall. 91 00:04:54,528 --> 00:04:54,778 Cynthia Batty. 92 00:04:54,828 --> 00:04:55,078 Yeah. 93 00:05:00,561 --> 00:05:00,811 Director Matt Heckles, OK. 94 00:05:04,528 --> 00:05:04,778 Jerry Heisler, I know he's not 95 00:05:06,428 --> 00:05:06,678 able to attend today. Um, 96 00:05:08,561 --> 00:05:08,811 unfortunately, this meeting is 97 00:05:10,228 --> 00:05:10,478 scheduled on Yom Kippur. 98 00:05:12,295 --> 00:05:12,545 And so he, he is. 99 00:05:16,261 --> 00:05:16,511 Unable to attend today. Tom 100 00:05:16,861 --> 00:05:17,111 Cook. Yeah. 101 00:05:18,328 --> 00:05:18,578 Bob Vacca. 102 00:05:20,228 --> 00:05:20,478 Here 103 00:05:20,478 --> 00:05:20,728 Thank you. 104 00:05:26,395 --> 00:05:26,645 Senator or Secretary Don 105 00:05:28,261 --> 00:05:28,511 Clifton. I'm here. Very good. 106 00:05:30,295 --> 00:05:30,545 And Sydney Grossnickel. 107 00:05:32,195 --> 00:05:32,445 Here. 108 00:05:34,495 --> 00:05:34,745 Great, thank you. So we have a 109 00:05:36,561 --> 00:05:36,811 quorum in case we actually take 110 00:05:40,195 --> 00:05:40,445 any votes on anything today. I 111 00:05:42,195 --> 00:05:42,445 don't anticipate we'll be voting 112 00:05:44,195 --> 00:05:44,445 on anything today, but, uh, 113 00:05:46,228 --> 00:05:46,478 motions can always come up, so 114 00:05:48,295 --> 00:05:48,545 it's good to know that we have 115 00:05:48,995 --> 00:05:49,245 um. 116 00:05:50,395 --> 00:05:50,645 Thanks, I'd like to go around 117 00:05:50,995 --> 00:05:51,245 the room now. 118 00:05:52,495 --> 00:05:52,745 And if you could just introduce 119 00:05:53,195 --> 00:05:53,445 yourself. 120 00:05:54,295 --> 00:05:54,545 By name, 121 00:05:56,361 --> 00:05:56,611 Title 122 00:05:58,495 --> 00:05:58,745 and organization, and whether, 123 00:06:00,528 --> 00:06:00,778 and then let us know if you're 124 00:06:04,361 --> 00:06:04,611 serving as a designee for uh 125 00:06:04,928 --> 00:06:05,178 another member. 126 00:06:06,495 --> 00:06:06,745 OK, so I guess we will start. 127 00:06:12,261 --> 00:06:12,511 To the right. Well, Frank Burns, 128 00:06:14,395 --> 00:06:14,645 State Legislature House. All 129 00:06:16,295 --> 00:06:16,545 right, so, uh, Russ Huxville, 130 00:06:16,961 --> 00:06:17,211 To the right. Well, Frank Burns 131 00:06:17,661 --> 00:06:17,911 State Legislature House. All 132 00:06:18,228 --> 00:06:18,478 right, so, uh, Russ Huxtable, 133 00:06:18,828 --> 00:06:19,078 state senator for the 6th Senate 134 00:06:19,561 --> 00:06:19,811 district in Sussex County. 135 00:06:20,561 --> 00:06:20,811 Michael Smith, uh, secretary of 136 00:06:21,161 --> 00:06:21,411 Finance, the state of Delaware. 137 00:06:24,528 --> 00:06:24,778 I'm Don Clifton. I'm the 138 00:06:26,361 --> 00:06:26,611 secretary of the Delaware 139 00:06:26,928 --> 00:06:27,178 Department of Agriculture. 140 00:06:30,461 --> 00:06:30,711 And I'm Sally. I'm the deputy 141 00:06:32,328 --> 00:06:32,578 director of Office of Management 142 00:06:34,461 --> 00:06:34,711 and Budget, and I'm Brian 143 00:06:36,328 --> 00:06:36,578 Maxwell's designee today. 144 00:06:38,495 --> 00:06:38,745 Good morning, Matt Heckles. I'm 145 00:06:39,195 --> 00:06:39,445 the director of DSAT. 146 00:06:42,528 --> 00:06:42,778 Cynthia Badie, I'm a citizen 147 00:06:44,428 --> 00:06:44,678 here representing the taxpayers. 148 00:06:48,395 --> 00:06:48,645 Mone Smith, currently president 149 00:06:50,261 --> 00:06:50,511 of the Delaware Association of 150 00:06:52,261 --> 00:06:52,511 School Business Officials. Thank 151 00:06:54,328 --> 00:06:54,578 you. Tom Cook, um, actually 152 00:06:56,395 --> 00:06:56,645 former Secretary of Finance and 153 00:06:58,428 --> 00:06:58,678 a proud grandfather. 154 00:07:02,195 --> 00:07:02,445 Janelle Cornwall, executive 155 00:07:02,861 --> 00:07:03,111 Director of the League of Local 156 00:07:04,461 --> 00:07:04,711 Governments. Good morning. I'm 157 00:07:06,328 --> 00:07:06,578 David Del Grande, uh, Chief 158 00:07:08,328 --> 00:07:08,578 Financial Officer in Yassa 159 00:07:08,928 --> 00:07:09,178 County. 160 00:07:10,428 --> 00:07:10,678 Susan Durham, finance director 161 00:07:11,161 --> 00:07:11,411 for Kent Kent. 162 00:07:12,661 --> 00:07:12,911 Gina Jennings, finance director 163 00:07:14,295 --> 00:07:14,545 and Chief Operating Officer for 164 00:07:14,995 --> 00:07:15,245 Sussex County. 165 00:07:18,295 --> 00:07:18,545 Senator Brian Richardson, my 166 00:07:20,528 --> 00:07:20,778 area is from Bridgeville to 167 00:07:24,228 --> 00:07:24,478 Delmore. Very good. And I would 168 00:07:24,861 --> 00:07:25,111 also like uh if 169 00:07:28,228 --> 00:07:28,478 You, Justin, if you could 170 00:07:28,761 --> 00:07:29,011 introduce yourself and 171 00:07:30,528 --> 00:07:30,778 on the Justin Docherty, 172 00:07:32,395 --> 00:07:32,645 legislative aide of 173 00:07:32,828 --> 00:07:33,078 Representative Burns. 174 00:07:36,495 --> 00:07:36,745 And I believe Senator Huxtable's 175 00:07:37,195 --> 00:07:37,445 aide is online. 176 00:07:40,195 --> 00:07:40,445 And I would like you also to. 177 00:07:42,395 --> 00:07:42,645 Introduce yourself, giving us 178 00:07:44,295 --> 00:07:44,545 the tech support. Uh, uh, I'm 179 00:07:44,895 --> 00:07:45,145 Adam. 180 00:07:46,395 --> 00:07:46,645 OK, 181 00:07:50,195 --> 00:07:50,445 thank you, and I just wanna note 182 00:07:52,161 --> 00:07:52,411 as, as he introduced himself, 183 00:07:54,228 --> 00:07:54,478 but Senator Heckles is here to 184 00:07:54,895 --> 00:07:55,145 uh adjust the the. 185 00:07:56,561 --> 00:07:56,811 A roll call. 186 00:07:58,495 --> 00:07:58,745 OK. 187 00:08:02,495 --> 00:08:02,745 Now just a little bit of uh. 188 00:08:04,395 --> 00:08:04,645 Housekeeping, 189 00:08:06,495 --> 00:08:06,745 One of the things that I think 190 00:08:10,295 --> 00:08:10,545 has worked well in organizations 191 00:08:12,195 --> 00:08:12,445 like this. We have a fairly big 192 00:08:14,361 --> 00:08:14,611 group. It's not gigantic, but if 193 00:08:16,361 --> 00:08:16,611 people want to be recognized 194 00:08:18,428 --> 00:08:18,678 online. Uh, they will raise 195 00:08:20,528 --> 00:08:20,778 their hand and uh Justin will 196 00:08:24,228 --> 00:08:24,478 see that, but in the room, if 197 00:08:24,828 --> 00:08:25,078 you want to be recognized, 198 00:08:25,461 --> 00:08:25,711 please turn your 199 00:08:28,461 --> 00:08:28,711 This up, and then I will try 200 00:08:30,395 --> 00:08:30,645 very hard to see who goes up 201 00:08:32,428 --> 00:08:32,678 first and make sure that I get 202 00:08:34,395 --> 00:08:34,645 to the people in order. I'm sure 203 00:08:36,528 --> 00:08:36,778 I'll make some mistakes. Just I 204 00:08:38,295 --> 00:08:38,545 will get to everybody 205 00:08:40,428 --> 00:08:40,678 eventually. That's um all for 206 00:08:41,028 --> 00:08:41,278 that. 207 00:08:46,461 --> 00:08:46,711 OK, um, so there's a copy of the 208 00:08:48,228 --> 00:08:48,478 House concurrent resolution 209 00:08:50,295 --> 00:08:50,545 that's included in the packet 210 00:08:50,995 --> 00:08:51,245 that you've got in there. 211 00:08:52,395 --> 00:08:52,645 Each of the directness of the 212 00:08:54,561 --> 00:08:54,811 resolution has been adopted into 213 00:08:56,695 --> 00:08:56,945 modules we will review together 214 00:08:57,361 --> 00:08:57,611 throughout our works. 215 00:09:00,395 --> 00:09:00,645 Please note that module 216 00:09:02,361 --> 00:09:02,611 schedule is not the same order 217 00:09:02,961 --> 00:09:03,211 as the language in the 218 00:09:03,428 --> 00:09:03,678 resolution. 219 00:09:06,361 --> 00:09:06,611 So now, 220 00:09:10,195 --> 00:09:10,445 We may have other things that 221 00:09:10,828 --> 00:09:11,078 people come up with that are 222 00:09:11,428 --> 00:09:11,678 not. 223 00:09:12,628 --> 00:09:12,878 On this schedule, these are the 224 00:09:14,395 --> 00:09:14,645 things we have to make sure we 225 00:09:15,095 --> 00:09:15,345 cover. 226 00:09:18,295 --> 00:09:18,545 So we need, because that's what 227 00:09:20,395 --> 00:09:20,645 the resolution says I do not 228 00:09:22,228 --> 00:09:22,478 wanna go off target. 229 00:09:26,295 --> 00:09:26,545 In our discussions, we may add 230 00:09:26,995 --> 00:09:27,245 an extra. 231 00:09:28,461 --> 00:09:28,711 Meeting we have uh time at the 232 00:09:30,228 --> 00:09:30,478 end of our schedule. 233 00:09:32,428 --> 00:09:32,678 Um, you know, when our meeting 234 00:09:34,661 --> 00:09:34,911 dates are, are scheduled too. So 235 00:09:36,428 --> 00:09:36,678 if there's something that comes 236 00:09:37,061 --> 00:09:37,311 up that the. 237 00:09:40,395 --> 00:09:40,645 Group wants to discuss and 238 00:09:42,395 --> 00:09:42,645 agrees to discuss, we can do, 239 00:09:44,461 --> 00:09:44,711 that's not a part of the 240 00:09:46,461 --> 00:09:46,711 scheduled, uh, discussion 241 00:09:50,295 --> 00:09:50,545 topics, we can do so uh when 242 00:09:52,228 --> 00:09:52,478 we're getting towards the end of 243 00:09:52,928 --> 00:09:53,178 our meetings together. 244 00:09:54,428 --> 00:09:54,678 Cause again, it's really 245 00:09:58,528 --> 00:09:58,778 important. We have to cover 246 00:09:59,128 --> 00:09:59,378 those things that are in the 247 00:09:59,695 --> 00:09:59,945 resolution, and I don't want to 248 00:10:00,461 --> 00:10:00,711 go down rabbit holes or get 249 00:10:01,061 --> 00:10:01,311 sidetracked. 250 00:10:02,428 --> 00:10:02,678 OK. 251 00:10:04,495 --> 00:10:04,745 Um. 252 00:10:08,561 --> 00:10:08,811 So is the schedule amenable to 253 00:10:10,228 --> 00:10:10,478 everyone, right? This is. 254 00:10:10,761 --> 00:10:11,011 You know, sort of. 255 00:10:14,361 --> 00:10:14,611 What seemed reasonable? Is there 256 00:10:16,328 --> 00:10:16,578 a discussion around the actual 257 00:10:17,028 --> 00:10:17,278 schedule itself? 258 00:10:20,528 --> 00:10:20,778 Yes, Cynthia, um, the 259 00:10:22,495 --> 00:10:22,745 twenty-eighth, I'm not available 260 00:10:24,428 --> 00:10:24,678 on, I'm gonna, oh sorry, of 261 00:10:26,328 --> 00:10:26,578 December. I, I'm guessing a lot 262 00:10:26,995 --> 00:10:27,245 of people won't be available. 263 00:10:30,261 --> 00:10:30,511 That seems like an unreasonable 264 00:10:30,961 --> 00:10:31,211 date. 265 00:10:31,211 --> 00:10:31,461 OK. 266 00:10:32,428 --> 00:10:32,678 Um, 267 00:10:36,261 --> 00:10:36,511 So at least I hope you won't be 268 00:10:36,961 --> 00:10:37,211 available. 269 00:10:38,595 --> 00:10:38,845 So that's, that's a very good 270 00:10:42,428 --> 00:10:42,678 point, and I'm gonna, so ask, I 271 00:10:44,428 --> 00:10:44,678 guess for a vote on that. We 272 00:10:46,328 --> 00:10:46,578 want to strike the December 273 00:10:48,228 --> 00:10:48,478 twenty-eighth and then adjust 274 00:10:48,795 --> 00:10:49,045 the schedule and move all the 275 00:10:49,495 --> 00:10:49,745 rest of them. 276 00:10:52,361 --> 00:10:52,611 Um, you know, one back further 277 00:10:53,061 --> 00:10:53,311 on the schedule. 278 00:10:54,528 --> 00:10:54,778 We do have time. We do have 279 00:10:56,295 --> 00:10:56,545 empty dates towards the end. 280 00:11:00,328 --> 00:11:00,578 Is that is, so I'll go around, 281 00:11:02,228 --> 00:11:02,478 um, so moved. Yes. 282 00:11:02,695 --> 00:11:02,945 OK, do you have a son. 283 00:11:06,361 --> 00:11:06,611 OK, OK, 284 00:11:08,295 --> 00:11:08,545 uh, then let's call the roll. 285 00:11:10,295 --> 00:11:10,545 OK, um. 286 00:11:12,528 --> 00:11:12,778 Greg Burns, yes, Senator 287 00:11:13,028 --> 00:11:13,278 Huxtable. 288 00:11:16,395 --> 00:11:16,645 Leonard Richardson, Gina 289 00:11:16,961 --> 00:11:17,211 Jennings. 290 00:11:18,428 --> 00:11:18,678 Susan Durham. 291 00:11:20,495 --> 00:11:20,745 David Del Grande. Yes. 292 00:11:22,528 --> 00:11:22,778 Michael Smith, 293 00:11:24,361 --> 00:11:24,611 oh 294 00:11:26,328 --> 00:11:26,578 he's 295 00:11:26,578 --> 00:11:26,828 Secretary Michael Smith. Sorry, 296 00:11:28,561 --> 00:11:28,811 I have to specify. OK, um, 297 00:11:30,495 --> 00:11:30,745 Deputy Director Anne Vasali, 298 00:11:31,061 --> 00:11:31,311 yes. 299 00:11:32,595 --> 00:11:32,845 Jeff, who's in for Steve Lucas? 300 00:11:38,228 --> 00:11:38,478 Yes. OK. Monet Smith. Yes. 301 00:11:40,261 --> 00:11:40,511 Cernca, not here. 302 00:11:42,395 --> 00:11:42,645 Uh, Janelle Cornwell. Yes, 303 00:11:44,295 --> 00:11:44,545 Cynthia Badding, yes. 304 00:11:46,428 --> 00:11:46,678 Director Matt Heckles. Yes, 305 00:11:46,995 --> 00:11:47,245 yeah. 306 00:11:48,495 --> 00:11:48,745 Uh, 307 00:11:50,395 --> 00:11:50,645 Tom Cook, yes. 308 00:11:56,228 --> 00:11:56,478 Secretary Don Clifton. Yes, 309 00:11:56,861 --> 00:11:57,111 Sydney Grossnipple. 310 00:11:57,328 --> 00:11:57,578 Yes. 311 00:12:00,595 --> 00:12:00,845 OK, so that passes. So we will 312 00:12:04,195 --> 00:12:04,445 strike the December 28th date 313 00:12:06,361 --> 00:12:06,611 and move the other uh discussion 314 00:12:08,228 --> 00:12:08,478 topics, 315 00:12:08,528 --> 00:12:08,778 one meeting date further out. 316 00:12:12,361 --> 00:12:12,611 Uh, just for attendance, so Ron 317 00:12:12,995 --> 00:12:13,245 Uh, just for attendance, Saron C 318 00:12:13,695 --> 00:12:13,945 Uh, just for attendance, Saron 319 00:12:14,361 --> 00:12:14,611 Cage just joined, uh, and Saron 320 00:12:16,595 --> 00:12:16,845 Cade has just joined online, so 321 00:12:18,261 --> 00:12:18,511 I'm here. All right, thank you. 322 00:12:22,361 --> 00:12:22,611 So Saran, did you want to vote 323 00:12:24,428 --> 00:12:24,678 on that? We were looking to 324 00:12:26,261 --> 00:12:26,511 strike the December 325 00:12:28,295 --> 00:12:28,545 28th meeting because many people 326 00:12:30,361 --> 00:12:30,611 will not be available and move 327 00:12:31,028 --> 00:12:31,278 uh the other meetings. 328 00:12:34,328 --> 00:12:34,578 Back one day further in the 329 00:12:34,895 --> 00:12:35,145 schedule. 330 00:12:38,295 --> 00:12:38,545 That's fine for me. Thank you. 331 00:12:39,028 --> 00:12:39,278 Yeah. 332 00:12:40,295 --> 00:12:40,545 All right. 333 00:12:48,195 --> 00:12:48,445 Very good, so again, you know, 334 00:12:48,861 --> 00:12:49,111 it's every other Monday, 10 to 335 00:12:49,561 --> 00:12:49,811 12. 336 00:12:50,361 --> 00:12:50,611 Um, 337 00:12:52,561 --> 00:12:52,811 I'm glad that that concern came 338 00:12:54,295 --> 00:12:54,545 up because it was a very good 339 00:12:54,895 --> 00:12:55,145 one. 340 00:13:00,228 --> 00:13:00,478 So now I'm gonna go through a, a 341 00:13:02,228 --> 00:13:02,478 presentation, you have a copy of 342 00:13:04,561 --> 00:13:04,811 the presentation at your uh at 343 00:13:06,361 --> 00:13:06,611 the on the table with your 344 00:13:06,961 --> 00:13:07,211 packet. 345 00:13:08,461 --> 00:13:08,711 So I guess we're gonna do this. 346 00:13:12,395 --> 00:13:12,645 With slides? Yes. OK. 347 00:13:16,295 --> 00:13:16,545 So, um, 348 00:13:20,361 --> 00:13:20,611 We did, we did that so far. So 349 00:13:22,395 --> 00:13:22,645 now we're into the module one 350 00:13:24,528 --> 00:13:24,778 presentation. Module one just is 351 00:13:28,195 --> 00:13:28,445 sort of an update on things that 352 00:13:28,961 --> 00:13:29,211 have been done and the working 353 00:13:29,628 --> 00:13:29,878 group charge. 354 00:13:30,495 --> 00:13:30,745 Um, 355 00:13:36,228 --> 00:13:36,478 So it tasks us with examining 356 00:13:36,861 --> 00:13:37,111 potential reforms. 357 00:13:38,395 --> 00:13:38,645 Delaware's property tax system 358 00:13:42,228 --> 00:13:42,478 to provide long-term relief for 359 00:13:44,228 --> 00:13:44,478 Delawareans. The resolution 360 00:13:44,795 --> 00:13:45,045 directs us to evaluate several 361 00:13:46,528 --> 00:13:46,778 policy approaches to property 362 00:13:47,228 --> 00:13:47,478 tax relief. 363 00:13:50,361 --> 00:13:50,611 Which are organized into 364 00:13:52,395 --> 00:13:52,645 individual modules, focused, uh, 365 00:13:54,328 --> 00:13:54,578 for focused discussion on each 366 00:13:56,395 --> 00:13:56,645 topic. At the conclusion of our 367 00:13:58,528 --> 00:13:58,778 work, we will be developing a 368 00:14:00,328 --> 00:14:00,578 final report and 369 00:14:02,228 --> 00:14:02,478 recommendations, including 370 00:14:04,328 --> 00:14:04,578 potential legislative language 371 00:14:06,561 --> 00:14:06,811 for consideration by the 154th 372 00:14:08,295 --> 00:14:08,545 General Assembly. 373 00:14:10,228 --> 00:14:10,478 OK. 374 00:14:12,595 --> 00:14:12,845 So we can go through the modules 375 00:14:13,295 --> 00:14:13,545 now. 376 00:14:16,495 --> 00:14:16,745 We can start module one. This is 377 00:14:18,495 --> 00:14:18,745 really, that's today, we're 378 00:14:20,495 --> 00:14:20,745 going over what the charge is to 379 00:14:24,161 --> 00:14:24,411 the group and legislative 380 00:14:26,295 --> 00:14:26,545 action, um, overview of recent 381 00:14:26,961 --> 00:14:27,211 legislative actions. 382 00:14:30,228 --> 00:14:30,478 Existing property tax relief 383 00:14:32,195 --> 00:14:32,445 programs and criteria for 384 00:14:34,195 --> 00:14:34,445 evaluating potential property 385 00:14:34,828 --> 00:14:35,078 tax relief reforms. 386 00:14:38,561 --> 00:14:38,811 So, um, homestead exemptions and 387 00:14:40,428 --> 00:14:40,678 owner occupancy relief, 388 00:14:42,528 --> 00:14:42,778 reviewing potential statewide 389 00:14:44,528 --> 00:14:44,778 and local option homestead 390 00:14:46,528 --> 00:14:46,778 exemption models including fixed 391 00:14:48,528 --> 00:14:48,778 dollar and percentage-based 392 00:14:52,195 --> 00:14:52,445 exemptions, enhanced relief for 393 00:14:54,328 --> 00:14:54,578 seniors and policies intended to 394 00:14:56,228 --> 00:14:56,478 support long-term owner 395 00:14:58,361 --> 00:14:58,611 occupancy and neighborhood 396 00:14:58,961 --> 00:14:59,211 stability. 397 00:15:02,228 --> 00:15:02,478 Uh, the 3rd module will be 398 00:15:02,761 --> 00:15:03,011 circuit breaker and income tax 399 00:15:03,461 --> 00:15:03,711 base. 400 00:15:06,561 --> 00:15:06,811 Property tax relief, evaluating 401 00:15:08,261 --> 00:15:08,511 whether Delaware should 402 00:15:10,228 --> 00:15:10,478 establish programs that provide 403 00:15:12,228 --> 00:15:12,478 relief when property tax burdens 404 00:15:14,461 --> 00:15:14,711 exceed a defined percentage of 405 00:15:16,461 --> 00:15:16,711 household income, including 406 00:15:18,328 --> 00:15:18,578 consideration of eligibility 407 00:15:20,428 --> 00:15:20,678 standards, renter participation, 408 00:15:22,461 --> 00:15:22,711 refund structures, and 409 00:15:24,361 --> 00:15:24,611 coordination with existing 410 00:15:24,895 --> 00:15:25,145 relief programs. 411 00:15:30,395 --> 00:15:30,645 Module 4 will be assessment, uh, 412 00:15:32,461 --> 00:15:32,711 growth limitations and taxpayer 413 00:15:34,561 --> 00:15:34,811 stability mechanisms, setting 414 00:15:36,461 --> 00:15:36,711 approaches used in other states 415 00:15:38,528 --> 00:15:38,778 to reduce sudden increases in 416 00:15:42,328 --> 00:15:42,578 taxable assessed value or annual 417 00:15:44,228 --> 00:15:44,478 tax liability including 418 00:15:46,395 --> 00:15:46,645 phase-ins, assessment caps, 419 00:15:48,495 --> 00:15:48,745 acquisition value systems, and 420 00:15:50,261 --> 00:15:50,511 other stabilization measures. 421 00:15:54,428 --> 00:15:54,678 OK, uh, module 5, tax deferral 422 00:15:56,361 --> 00:15:56,611 and payment flexibility 423 00:15:58,361 --> 00:15:58,611 programs, reviewing approaches 424 00:16:00,295 --> 00:16:00,545 utilized in other states to 425 00:16:02,228 --> 00:16:02,478 allow eligible homeowners, 426 00:16:04,495 --> 00:16:04,745 particularly seniors and fixed 427 00:16:05,128 --> 00:16:05,378 OK, uh, module 5, tax deferral 428 00:16:05,828 --> 00:16:06,078 and payment flexibility 429 00:16:06,295 --> 00:16:06,545 programs, reviewing approaches 430 00:16:06,995 --> 00:16:07,245 utilized in other states to 431 00:16:07,595 --> 00:16:07,845 allow eligible homeowners, 432 00:16:08,195 --> 00:16:08,445 particularly seniors and 433 00:16:08,661 --> 00:16:08,911 fixed-income residents to defer, 434 00:16:09,361 --> 00:16:09,611 phase, or otherwise structure 435 00:16:10,528 --> 00:16:10,778 property tax payments while 436 00:16:14,295 --> 00:16:14,545 maintaining local revenue 437 00:16:14,861 --> 00:16:15,111 stability. 438 00:16:18,228 --> 00:16:18,478 And module 6, property 439 00:16:20,195 --> 00:16:20,445 reclassification and 440 00:16:20,595 --> 00:16:20,845 differential tax treatment, 441 00:16:22,361 --> 00:16:22,611 assessing whether Delaware 442 00:16:24,228 --> 00:16:24,478 should consider to allow 443 00:16:26,328 --> 00:16:26,578 differentiating tax treatment 444 00:16:28,461 --> 00:16:28,711 among residential, commercial, 445 00:16:30,428 --> 00:16:30,678 industrial, agricultural, 446 00:16:32,728 --> 00:16:32,978 rentals, seasonal, vacation, and 447 00:16:34,561 --> 00:16:34,811 other categories of property for 448 00:16:38,228 --> 00:16:38,478 assessment or taxation purposes, 449 00:16:40,228 --> 00:16:40,478 including the potential impacts 450 00:16:42,328 --> 00:16:42,578 on tax equity, housing, 451 00:16:44,328 --> 00:16:44,578 affordability, economic 452 00:16:44,895 --> 00:16:45,145 competitiveness. 453 00:16:46,328 --> 00:16:46,578 And local revenues. 454 00:16:48,561 --> 00:16:48,811 Module 7. 455 00:16:52,495 --> 00:16:52,745 School tax equity and local 456 00:16:54,361 --> 00:16:54,611 government fiscal stability 457 00:16:56,461 --> 00:16:56,711 analyzing how potential tax 458 00:16:58,395 --> 00:16:58,645 relief measures could affect 459 00:17:00,261 --> 00:17:00,511 school district funding, 460 00:17:02,295 --> 00:17:02,545 referendum requirements, 461 00:17:04,328 --> 00:17:04,578 municipal and county revenues, 462 00:17:06,328 --> 00:17:06,578 and constitutional standards 463 00:17:06,961 --> 00:17:07,211 relating to uniform taxation. 464 00:17:08,328 --> 00:17:08,578 Bye. 465 00:17:12,161 --> 00:17:12,411 Housing affordability, uh, 466 00:17:14,395 --> 00:17:14,645 module, housing affordability 467 00:17:16,428 --> 00:17:16,678 and economic impact, considering 468 00:17:18,295 --> 00:17:18,545 the broader effects of property 469 00:17:20,228 --> 00:17:20,478 taxation on housing 470 00:17:20,695 --> 00:17:20,945 affordability. 471 00:17:24,395 --> 00:17:24,645 Senior retention, renters, small 472 00:17:26,261 --> 00:17:26,511 businesses, neighborhood 473 00:17:28,295 --> 00:17:28,545 stability, and statewide 474 00:17:28,828 --> 00:17:29,078 economic competitiveness. 475 00:17:30,561 --> 00:17:30,811 Module 9. 476 00:17:32,561 --> 00:17:32,811 Administrative and data 477 00:17:33,028 --> 00:17:33,278 requirements. 478 00:17:36,495 --> 00:17:36,745 Identifying the staffing, 479 00:17:38,528 --> 00:17:38,778 technology, implementation 480 00:17:40,595 --> 00:17:40,845 timelines for fraud prevention 481 00:17:42,395 --> 00:17:42,645 strategies and data 482 00:17:44,428 --> 00:17:44,678 infrastructure necessary to 483 00:17:46,328 --> 00:17:46,578 administer potential 484 00:17:48,461 --> 00:17:48,711 modernization and relief 485 00:17:48,961 --> 00:17:49,211 programs effectively. 486 00:17:50,428 --> 00:17:50,678 Module 10. 487 00:17:54,295 --> 00:17:54,545 Uniformity, statewide standards, 488 00:17:54,995 --> 00:17:55,245 and local options. 489 00:17:58,195 --> 00:17:58,445 The working group shall consider 490 00:18:00,195 --> 00:18:00,445 both statewide standards and 491 00:18:00,761 --> 00:18:01,011 local option frameworks, 492 00:18:02,428 --> 00:18:02,678 recognizing the differing 493 00:18:04,528 --> 00:18:04,778 economic conditions and fiscal 494 00:18:06,595 --> 00:18:06,845 structures of Newcastle, Kent, 495 00:18:08,561 --> 00:18:08,811 and Sussex counties, and 496 00:18:10,461 --> 00:18:10,711 Delaware's municipal 497 00:18:12,295 --> 00:18:12,545 municipalities and school 498 00:18:12,895 --> 00:18:13,145 districts. 499 00:18:16,461 --> 00:18:16,711 Module 11, the working group, 500 00:18:18,461 --> 00:18:18,711 it's discussion and development 501 00:18:19,128 --> 00:18:19,378 of final recommendations. 502 00:18:22,328 --> 00:18:22,578 The working group shall produce 503 00:18:24,228 --> 00:18:24,478 findings and recommendations, 504 00:18:26,328 --> 00:18:26,578 including draft legislative 505 00:18:26,961 --> 00:18:27,211 language where appropriate. 506 00:18:30,295 --> 00:18:30,545 For consideration by the 154th 507 00:18:30,928 --> 00:18:31,178 General Assembly. 508 00:18:32,428 --> 00:18:32,678 Within 6 months of its 509 00:18:32,895 --> 00:18:33,145 convening. 510 00:18:36,295 --> 00:18:36,545 So right now we're scheduled. 511 00:18:38,495 --> 00:18:38,745 We have dates set aside to go 512 00:18:40,561 --> 00:18:40,811 through, uh, I think March 22nd 513 00:18:44,495 --> 00:18:44,745 and uh you know, we can go a 514 00:18:46,395 --> 00:18:46,645 little bit further in there, but 515 00:18:48,428 --> 00:18:48,678 we do wanna have recommendations 516 00:18:50,428 --> 00:18:50,678 to go forward in time for them 517 00:18:54,428 --> 00:18:54,678 to be considered in this leg of 518 00:18:56,461 --> 00:18:56,711 the legislature, so we can't, 519 00:18:58,461 --> 00:18:58,711 you know, we can't have 520 00:18:58,928 --> 00:18:59,178 something coming out. 521 00:19:00,361 --> 00:19:00,611 being suggested in 522 00:19:02,461 --> 00:19:02,711 Mid April or later, it just 523 00:19:04,395 --> 00:19:04,645 things get backed up at the end 524 00:19:06,561 --> 00:19:06,811 of session. So realistically, 525 00:19:08,561 --> 00:19:08,811 um, we wanna make sure we have 526 00:19:10,395 --> 00:19:10,645 these things and our 527 00:19:12,295 --> 00:19:12,545 recommendations and with enough 528 00:19:12,995 --> 00:19:13,245 time. 529 00:19:14,428 --> 00:19:14,678 And I think I can speak for 530 00:19:16,428 --> 00:19:16,678 Senator Richardson and Senator 531 00:19:18,261 --> 00:19:18,511 Huxtable as well. Things get 532 00:19:18,895 --> 00:19:19,145 jammed up at the end of the 533 00:19:20,328 --> 00:19:20,578 session. This is an important 534 00:19:22,261 --> 00:19:22,511 thing. We don't want this to be, 535 00:19:24,261 --> 00:19:24,511 uh, you know, end of session 536 00:19:26,195 --> 00:19:26,445 rush to try to get it through. 537 00:19:26,895 --> 00:19:27,145 OK, um. 538 00:19:30,595 --> 00:19:30,845 So we went over the proposed 539 00:19:31,195 --> 00:19:31,445 schedule. 540 00:19:34,261 --> 00:19:34,511 I guess we are now out to 541 00:19:36,395 --> 00:19:36,645 February 22nd, we've, since 542 00:19:38,328 --> 00:19:38,578 we've shifted things down and 543 00:19:38,961 --> 00:19:39,211 dropped the December 544 00:19:40,461 --> 00:19:40,711 twenty-eighth date, so it'd be 545 00:19:42,328 --> 00:19:42,578 great if we can be done by the 546 00:19:43,028 --> 00:19:43,278 end of. 547 00:19:46,328 --> 00:19:46,578 February, if we have to go into 548 00:19:48,528 --> 00:19:48,778 March, we can. Uh, I want to 549 00:19:49,128 --> 00:19:49,378 make sure, 550 00:19:50,261 --> 00:19:50,511 you know, we. 551 00:19:50,561 --> 00:19:50,811 This 552 00:19:54,328 --> 00:19:54,578 I would like us to be able to 553 00:19:56,195 --> 00:19:56,445 come to consensus on some 554 00:19:58,328 --> 00:19:58,578 things. I don't know that that's 555 00:20:00,428 --> 00:20:00,678 possible, but I'm hopeful that, 556 00:20:02,295 --> 00:20:02,545 you know, it's, it's gonna be. 557 00:20:06,195 --> 00:20:06,445 Um, so when we go to 558 00:20:06,661 --> 00:20:06,911 recommendations, I think I'll 559 00:20:07,295 --> 00:20:07,545 start now. 560 00:20:10,495 --> 00:20:10,745 What is it that we want to have 561 00:20:11,195 --> 00:20:11,445 as the threshold? 562 00:20:14,261 --> 00:20:14,511 For putting a recommendation 563 00:20:14,861 --> 00:20:15,111 forward. 564 00:20:18,428 --> 00:20:18,678 Um, you know, as a group, do we 565 00:20:19,061 --> 00:20:19,311 want it to be. 566 00:20:22,395 --> 00:20:22,645 Simple majority we want it to 567 00:20:22,961 --> 00:20:23,211 be. 568 00:20:26,361 --> 00:20:26,611 75%, you know, what is it, 569 00:20:28,295 --> 00:20:28,545 Because we're making very 570 00:20:30,295 --> 00:20:30,545 serious recommendations here. 571 00:20:32,261 --> 00:20:32,511 And I don't, this is up to the 572 00:20:32,861 --> 00:20:33,111 group, like. 573 00:20:34,428 --> 00:20:34,678 Does anyone want to make a 574 00:20:36,528 --> 00:20:36,778 motion that that we uh set a 575 00:20:38,361 --> 00:20:38,611 particular threshold before 576 00:20:44,228 --> 00:20:44,478 advancing recommendations uh to 577 00:20:44,961 --> 00:20:45,211 the General Assembly. 578 00:20:46,328 --> 00:20:46,578 Mhm. 579 00:20:48,161 --> 00:20:48,411 Tom Cook. 580 00:20:52,295 --> 00:20:52,545 Yes, my experience, sometimes 581 00:20:52,995 --> 00:20:53,245 you have 582 00:20:56,228 --> 00:20:56,478 ideas that come up that there's 583 00:20:56,928 --> 00:20:57,178 a unanimous, you know, 584 00:20:58,595 --> 00:20:58,845 everyone's behind it. There's 585 00:21:00,428 --> 00:21:00,678 other ones that, you know, maybe 586 00:21:02,295 --> 00:21:02,545 there's a different viewpoints. 587 00:21:04,428 --> 00:21:04,678 so maybe the, the 588 00:21:04,761 --> 00:21:05,011 recommendations could be broken 589 00:21:08,228 --> 00:21:08,478 down into, these are the list of 590 00:21:08,928 --> 00:21:09,178 ones that there was a complete 591 00:21:10,328 --> 00:21:10,578 consensus, and these are ones 592 00:21:10,895 --> 00:21:11,145 that. 593 00:21:14,195 --> 00:21:14,445 Had a, you know, a majority 594 00:21:14,761 --> 00:21:15,011 view, it's just an option. 595 00:21:18,161 --> 00:21:18,411 OK, but I think complete 596 00:21:20,195 --> 00:21:20,445 consensus might be tough. If you 597 00:21:22,328 --> 00:21:22,578 want to say like a 2/3 or above, 598 00:21:24,428 --> 00:21:24,678 and then, you know, majority but 599 00:21:26,461 --> 00:21:26,711 not 2/3 or above, would that be 600 00:21:27,128 --> 00:21:27,378 reasonable? 601 00:21:30,528 --> 00:21:30,778 So I, there's a motion now to 602 00:21:32,228 --> 00:21:32,478 have two tiers of 603 00:21:34,295 --> 00:21:34,545 recommendation, one that is um. 604 00:21:36,461 --> 00:21:36,711 2/3 and above and one that's 605 00:21:37,061 --> 00:21:37,311 majority. 606 00:21:38,528 --> 00:21:38,778 And is there a second? 607 00:21:44,195 --> 00:21:44,445 Mm 608 00:21:46,361 --> 00:21:46,611 It's two different things. I'll 609 00:21:46,995 --> 00:21:47,245 It's two different things. So, 610 00:21:48,328 --> 00:21:48,578 I'll second the motion. I have a 611 00:21:49,028 --> 00:21:49,278 question on the motion. 612 00:21:50,295 --> 00:21:50,545 Oh, ask away. 613 00:21:52,428 --> 00:21:52,678 Well, the first you have to 614 00:21:54,595 --> 00:21:54,845 approve the motion. OK, so it's 615 00:21:56,395 --> 00:21:56,645 been seconded. The motion is 616 00:21:58,228 --> 00:21:58,478 seconded and before the group. 617 00:21:58,928 --> 00:21:59,178 Sorry. 618 00:22:00,461 --> 00:22:00,711 So just to clarify the 619 00:22:02,461 --> 00:22:02,711 definition of majority to be a 620 00:22:04,261 --> 00:22:04,511 majority of all the 621 00:22:06,595 --> 00:22:06,845 Appointees or designees, not 622 00:22:07,228 --> 00:22:07,478 those present. 623 00:22:10,295 --> 00:22:10,545 I just want to clarify that and 624 00:22:12,328 --> 00:22:12,578 then there'll be two categories 625 00:22:14,395 --> 00:22:14,645 a 2/3 and above and a majority 626 00:22:16,428 --> 00:22:16,678 and above, yeah, I second that 627 00:22:18,428 --> 00:22:18,678 question. OK, so they had a 628 00:22:20,328 --> 00:22:20,578 total all members, not members 629 00:22:22,328 --> 00:22:22,578 present. Correct, OK, 630 00:22:26,295 --> 00:22:26,545 for their designs, their 631 00:22:26,795 --> 00:22:27,045 designs. 632 00:22:30,395 --> 00:22:30,645 Yes, Cynthia Baer, baby. Would 633 00:22:32,395 --> 00:22:32,645 that be we would make that 634 00:22:36,295 --> 00:22:36,545 segregation per issue and decide 635 00:22:36,995 --> 00:22:37,245 it would be per recommendation 636 00:22:38,461 --> 00:22:38,711 per recommendation, all right, 637 00:22:40,495 --> 00:22:40,745 because I, as, as the taxpayer 638 00:22:42,495 --> 00:22:42,745 advocate and still trying to 639 00:22:44,528 --> 00:22:44,778 understand my role. Um, I just 640 00:22:45,228 --> 00:22:45,478 wanna make sure. 641 00:22:46,495 --> 00:22:46,745 As the advocate that, that. 642 00:22:50,295 --> 00:22:50,545 And the only one I know of on 643 00:22:52,328 --> 00:22:52,578 this group, although we all 644 00:22:54,161 --> 00:22:54,411 advocate for ourselves, um, that 645 00:22:54,828 --> 00:22:55,078 it's not overwhelmed in. 646 00:22:58,361 --> 00:22:58,611 You know, giant majorities, 647 00:22:58,928 --> 00:22:59,178 that's my only concern. 648 00:23:02,461 --> 00:23:02,711 OK. 649 00:23:06,228 --> 00:23:06,478 So can we have a vote on any 650 00:23:06,895 --> 00:23:07,145 other discussion on the motion? 651 00:23:10,295 --> 00:23:10,545 OK, can we have a vote? 652 00:23:12,561 --> 00:23:12,811 Frank Burns, yes. 653 00:23:16,528 --> 00:23:16,778 Uh yes. Yes, Michael Smith, John 654 00:23:17,228 --> 00:23:17,478 Clifton, yes. 655 00:23:18,528 --> 00:23:18,778 And Vali. 656 00:23:22,328 --> 00:23:22,578 Yes. 657 00:23:28,611 --> 00:23:28,861 Oh, sorry, yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. 658 00:23:30,295 --> 00:23:30,545 Yes. Yes. Yes. 659 00:23:30,661 --> 00:23:30,911 Yes. 660 00:23:32,561 --> 00:23:32,811 And to the people online. 661 00:23:36,461 --> 00:23:36,711 Jeff Mezer, yes. 662 00:23:40,295 --> 00:23:40,545 Yes. 663 00:23:42,328 --> 00:23:42,578 Bob Vaca, yes. 664 00:23:50,228 --> 00:23:50,478 Cron Cade, yes. 665 00:23:58,595 --> 00:23:58,845 OK. 666 00:24:00,428 --> 00:24:00,678 Um, 667 00:24:04,528 --> 00:24:04,778 Sounds good. I'm happy that 668 00:24:06,328 --> 00:24:06,578 that's because it's always good 669 00:24:08,161 --> 00:24:08,411 to know in advance what the 670 00:24:08,795 --> 00:24:09,045 thresholds are, because we will 671 00:24:09,461 --> 00:24:09,711 have discussions. 672 00:24:12,461 --> 00:24:12,711 I say I'm hoping we can come to 673 00:24:14,261 --> 00:24:14,511 complete consensus on things, 674 00:24:16,228 --> 00:24:16,478 but that might not be possible 675 00:24:16,861 --> 00:24:17,111 and to know in advance, sort of. 676 00:24:18,361 --> 00:24:18,611 Because at the end of this, we 677 00:24:19,061 --> 00:24:19,311 were. 678 00:24:20,495 --> 00:24:20,745 You know, where we already knew 679 00:24:22,295 --> 00:24:22,545 there were contentious issues 680 00:24:24,195 --> 00:24:24,445 and we try to set thresholds, 681 00:24:26,195 --> 00:24:26,445 that would be problematic in my 682 00:24:26,861 --> 00:24:27,111 viewpoint, so. 683 00:24:28,395 --> 00:24:28,645 OK, um, 684 00:24:30,495 --> 00:24:30,745 Oh. 685 00:24:38,161 --> 00:24:38,411 So are there any additional 686 00:24:38,695 --> 00:24:38,945 sorry yeah. 687 00:24:40,228 --> 00:24:40,478 That 688 00:24:42,195 --> 00:24:42,445 It's 689 00:24:42,445 --> 00:24:42,695 He's picture, 690 00:24:42,695 --> 00:24:42,945 so. 691 00:24:44,495 --> 00:24:44,745 We're going to go an overview of 692 00:24:46,295 --> 00:24:46,545 recent legislative actions. 693 00:24:48,495 --> 00:24:48,745 So we can go through a timeline. 694 00:24:50,495 --> 00:24:50,745 Things um. 695 00:24:56,228 --> 00:24:56,478 In 2024 and 2025, 1st statewide 696 00:24:58,295 --> 00:24:58,545 reassessment in over 40 years 697 00:24:58,995 --> 00:24:59,245 was done. 698 00:25:00,428 --> 00:25:00,678 It led to significant hardship 699 00:25:02,395 --> 00:25:02,645 for some property owners as 700 00:25:04,361 --> 00:25:04,611 years of market changers were 701 00:25:04,961 --> 00:25:05,211 absorbed all at once. 702 00:25:08,395 --> 00:25:08,645 I would like to, and, and it's 703 00:25:10,328 --> 00:25:10,578 pointed out here in New Castle 704 00:25:12,395 --> 00:25:12,645 County, a dramatic decrease in 705 00:25:14,295 --> 00:25:14,545 the relative value of commercial 706 00:25:16,461 --> 00:25:16,711 properties led to a significant 707 00:25:18,295 --> 00:25:18,545 increase in residential property 708 00:25:18,928 --> 00:25:19,178 owner's share of the tax burden. 709 00:25:22,461 --> 00:25:22,711 So this, um, there are a couple 710 00:25:23,128 --> 00:25:23,378 of school districts. 711 00:25:24,628 --> 00:25:24,878 Especially up in New Castle 712 00:25:25,195 --> 00:25:25,445 County. 713 00:25:28,295 --> 00:25:28,545 that have big segments of 714 00:25:32,195 --> 00:25:32,445 downtown Wilmington, um, as part 715 00:25:32,961 --> 00:25:33,211 of their tax base, a lot of 716 00:25:34,461 --> 00:25:34,711 those properties were commercial 717 00:25:35,161 --> 00:25:35,411 office buildings. 718 00:25:38,428 --> 00:25:38,678 That the value of office space 719 00:25:40,328 --> 00:25:40,578 since pandemic dropped 720 00:25:42,361 --> 00:25:42,611 precipitously, so all of a 721 00:25:44,395 --> 00:25:44,645 sudden a lot of the tax base had 722 00:25:46,228 --> 00:25:46,478 disappeared, and then the 723 00:25:48,561 --> 00:25:48,811 With the single rate, it all 724 00:25:49,228 --> 00:25:49,478 fell on the homeowners. 725 00:25:52,295 --> 00:25:52,545 And it was such that um. 726 00:25:54,395 --> 00:25:54,645 You know, we were talking about. 727 00:25:56,461 --> 00:25:56,711 Uh, you know. 728 00:26:00,328 --> 00:26:00,578 Doubling people's taxes, taxes 729 00:26:02,228 --> 00:26:02,478 going up by thousands of dollars 730 00:26:04,228 --> 00:26:04,478 for modest homes, um. 731 00:26:06,361 --> 00:26:06,611 And this, it just wasn't 732 00:26:08,295 --> 00:26:08,545 tenable. We had a lot of 733 00:26:08,895 --> 00:26:09,145 especially. 734 00:26:10,328 --> 00:26:10,578 You know, if you're paying it 735 00:26:10,961 --> 00:26:11,211 off through your mortgage, it's 736 00:26:12,261 --> 00:26:12,511 one thing you don't see it. 737 00:26:14,461 --> 00:26:14,711 But we had a lot of elderly 738 00:26:18,228 --> 00:26:18,478 individuals who have paid off 739 00:26:20,195 --> 00:26:20,445 their mortgage, who paid their 740 00:26:22,295 --> 00:26:22,545 tax bill all at once, and they 741 00:26:24,261 --> 00:26:24,511 usually have set aside what they 742 00:26:26,228 --> 00:26:26,478 anticipate their tax bill will 743 00:26:28,328 --> 00:26:28,578 be and they were, it was an 744 00:26:28,861 --> 00:26:29,111 extremely precarious situation. 745 00:26:32,395 --> 00:26:32,645 So then in August, the special 746 00:26:33,061 --> 00:26:33,311 session was called. 747 00:26:36,228 --> 00:26:36,478 And legislation was passed to 748 00:26:36,828 --> 00:26:37,078 address immediate relief for 749 00:26:38,261 --> 00:26:38,511 residential property owners. 750 00:26:42,328 --> 00:26:42,578 It included efforts to split tax 751 00:26:43,061 --> 00:26:43,311 rates. And again, this is not. 752 00:26:46,295 --> 00:26:46,545 I want to point out that the 753 00:26:48,228 --> 00:26:48,478 legislature didn't split any tax 754 00:26:50,195 --> 00:26:50,445 rates to allowed the school 755 00:26:52,228 --> 00:26:52,478 districts to, if they felt they 756 00:26:52,861 --> 00:26:53,111 needed to, so. 757 00:26:56,195 --> 00:26:56,445 Even though the enabling 758 00:26:56,761 --> 00:26:57,011 legislation was passed by the 759 00:26:58,495 --> 00:26:58,745 legislature. The decision to 760 00:27:00,395 --> 00:27:00,645 split rates or not split rates 761 00:27:02,428 --> 00:27:02,678 were made by the individual 762 00:27:04,561 --> 00:27:04,811 school districts, and many did 763 00:27:06,595 --> 00:27:06,845 not split their rates. So that's 764 00:27:08,461 --> 00:27:08,711 something to keep in mind. I 765 00:27:09,061 --> 00:27:09,311 think uh. 766 00:27:10,295 --> 00:27:10,545 Oh. 767 00:27:12,195 --> 00:27:12,445 Well, 768 00:27:14,195 --> 00:27:14,445 yeah, I think that's something 769 00:27:16,228 --> 00:27:16,478 to really keep in mind when 770 00:27:16,861 --> 00:27:17,111 we're trying to address the 771 00:27:17,428 --> 00:27:17,678 issues. 772 00:27:20,228 --> 00:27:20,478 Thank you, Rippers. I think 773 00:27:20,828 --> 00:27:21,078 there was one thing you said, 774 00:27:22,328 --> 00:27:22,578 and, and I just wanna make sure 775 00:27:22,995 --> 00:27:23,245 cause I. 776 00:27:26,161 --> 00:27:26,411 I don't think you meant to say 777 00:27:26,828 --> 00:27:27,078 this, but you mentioned that you 778 00:27:28,395 --> 00:27:28,645 believed it was, it was the 779 00:27:30,328 --> 00:27:30,578 single rate that caused the 780 00:27:32,228 --> 00:27:32,478 issue, and I don't think it was 781 00:27:32,961 --> 00:27:33,211 a single rape that caused the 782 00:27:36,261 --> 00:27:36,511 issue. I think it was the the 783 00:27:36,928 --> 00:27:37,178 valuation of the commercial 784 00:27:38,228 --> 00:27:38,478 property that caused the issue. 785 00:27:40,228 --> 00:27:40,478 Not the simple thing, yeah. 786 00:27:42,428 --> 00:27:42,678 I didn't think I said the single 787 00:27:44,228 --> 00:27:44,478 rate had caused the issue, but 788 00:27:46,428 --> 00:27:46,678 that's, I didn't mean to, um, 789 00:27:47,061 --> 00:27:47,311 the property owners. 790 00:27:50,228 --> 00:27:50,478 We're in a bind and the 791 00:27:52,528 --> 00:27:52,778 Giving the school boards the 792 00:27:54,495 --> 00:27:54,745 flexibility to split the tax 793 00:27:56,228 --> 00:27:56,478 rates was. 794 00:27:58,528 --> 00:27:58,778 The immediate solution that was 795 00:28:00,495 --> 00:28:00,745 proffered at the time. As we 796 00:28:02,295 --> 00:28:02,545 discuss all these other things 797 00:28:04,228 --> 00:28:04,478 that we're gonna be discussing, 798 00:28:06,261 --> 00:28:06,511 None of them will be easy, and 799 00:28:06,928 --> 00:28:07,178 you'll see why. 800 00:28:08,461 --> 00:28:08,711 Um, in a short time frame, I 801 00:28:10,395 --> 00:28:10,645 think those things can be done. 802 00:28:14,395 --> 00:28:14,645 Someone online had their hand up 803 00:28:16,228 --> 00:28:16,478 who wanted to speak. Yeah, this 804 00:28:16,861 --> 00:28:17,111 is uh Saron Cade up here in 805 00:28:18,428 --> 00:28:18,678 Wilmington. I just wanted to 806 00:28:20,461 --> 00:28:20,711 point out, um, uh, some, some of 807 00:28:22,328 --> 00:28:22,578 our issues were related to 808 00:28:24,295 --> 00:28:24,545 commercial properties, but I 809 00:28:26,228 --> 00:28:26,478 don't wanna take the eye our eye 810 00:28:28,295 --> 00:28:28,545 off the ball on the reality that 811 00:28:30,595 --> 00:28:30,845 um the way that mass appraisals 812 00:28:34,228 --> 00:28:34,478 are done, um, make it very 813 00:28:36,461 --> 00:28:36,711 difficult to do, to do them 814 00:28:38,495 --> 00:28:38,745 accurately in urban areas. 815 00:28:42,228 --> 00:28:42,478 Where you don't necessarily have 816 00:28:44,561 --> 00:28:44,811 a homogeneous housing stock, um, 817 00:28:46,595 --> 00:28:46,845 that you can utilize. So, while 818 00:28:48,395 --> 00:28:48,645 I know for some of the public 819 00:28:50,428 --> 00:28:50,678 it's, it's easy just to say the 820 00:28:52,228 --> 00:28:52,478 commercial properties were rated 821 00:28:54,195 --> 00:28:54,445 higher and the residentials took 822 00:28:54,895 --> 00:28:55,145 the burden. It's much deeper 823 00:28:58,195 --> 00:28:58,445 than that in um urban 824 00:29:00,361 --> 00:29:00,611 environments and um uh and is 825 00:29:02,495 --> 00:29:02,745 related to the idea that, you 826 00:29:04,228 --> 00:29:04,478 know, for the city of 827 00:29:06,361 --> 00:29:06,611 Wilmington, the only uh uh 828 00:29:08,561 --> 00:29:08,811 measure that was really utilized 829 00:29:09,261 --> 00:29:09,511 was 830 00:29:12,361 --> 00:29:12,611 Cals, which in an environment 831 00:29:14,261 --> 00:29:14,511 like Wilmington where you get a 832 00:29:16,395 --> 00:29:16,645 lot of house flips, um, it can 833 00:29:18,428 --> 00:29:18,678 skew the, the value of 834 00:29:20,428 --> 00:29:20,678 surrounding properties to the 835 00:29:22,528 --> 00:29:22,778 value of the sale versus the 836 00:29:26,195 --> 00:29:26,445 reality of what those properties 837 00:29:28,328 --> 00:29:28,578 are if you don't have other 838 00:29:30,328 --> 00:29:30,578 measures to determine, uh, uh, 839 00:29:31,028 --> 00:29:31,278 the value of those properties 840 00:29:32,561 --> 00:29:32,811 internally and externally 841 00:29:34,561 --> 00:29:34,811 through appraisals or other 842 00:29:38,328 --> 00:29:38,578 means. So, while, while I know 843 00:29:38,995 --> 00:29:39,245 that the commercial piece. 844 00:29:42,195 --> 00:29:42,445 was very big throughout the 845 00:29:44,428 --> 00:29:44,678 county. Wilmington's was much 846 00:29:46,295 --> 00:29:46,545 deeper than just that, and so I 847 00:29:46,995 --> 00:29:47,245 wanna make sure that we hit on 848 00:29:50,228 --> 00:29:50,478 those things as we get into this 849 00:29:52,361 --> 00:29:52,611 topic and, and, um, don't leave 850 00:29:54,228 --> 00:29:54,478 it to just the bifurcated rates. 851 00:29:56,428 --> 00:29:56,678 OK, but I do want to point out 852 00:29:58,161 --> 00:29:58,411 there is another working group 853 00:29:58,828 --> 00:29:59,078 that's already actually started 854 00:30:00,495 --> 00:30:00,745 that is actually looking at all 855 00:30:02,428 --> 00:30:02,678 of those issues. That's being 856 00:30:04,328 --> 00:30:04,578 headed up by Representative 857 00:30:08,228 --> 00:30:08,478 Cromer, and they're looking at 858 00:30:08,828 --> 00:30:09,078 basically how do you get these 859 00:30:09,528 --> 00:30:09,778 assessments right? 860 00:30:12,428 --> 00:30:12,678 And the issues that went wrong. 861 00:30:16,228 --> 00:30:16,478 So, although I, I agree that if 862 00:30:16,861 --> 00:30:17,111 I made it, if I made it too 863 00:30:20,328 --> 00:30:20,578 simplistic in my explanation of 864 00:30:21,028 --> 00:30:21,278 all that went wrong, um. 865 00:30:24,228 --> 00:30:24,478 I am sort of trying to not make 866 00:30:26,195 --> 00:30:26,445 this meeting last till midnight, 867 00:30:28,395 --> 00:30:28,645 so I got you, I got you. So I, 868 00:30:30,328 --> 00:30:30,578 but I, I understand that and 869 00:30:32,195 --> 00:30:32,445 thank you for bringing that up 870 00:30:32,828 --> 00:30:33,078 because there were a lot of 871 00:30:34,228 --> 00:30:34,478 issues, um. 872 00:30:36,295 --> 00:30:36,545 About the, the, uh. 873 00:30:38,295 --> 00:30:38,545 Technical. 874 00:30:40,361 --> 00:30:40,611 Reliability of the reassessment. 875 00:30:44,328 --> 00:30:44,578 And you know, those that is 876 00:30:44,861 --> 00:30:45,111 actually being handled by a 877 00:30:45,461 --> 00:30:45,711 different group. 878 00:30:50,228 --> 00:30:50,478 So, um, I'm hopeful that they 879 00:30:52,295 --> 00:30:52,545 will come to the conclusions and 880 00:30:52,928 --> 00:30:53,178 come forward with things that. 881 00:30:54,595 --> 00:30:54,845 Will prevent that from happening 882 00:30:55,295 --> 00:30:55,545 in the future. 883 00:31:00,328 --> 00:31:00,578 OK, so August 12th, this special 884 00:31:02,295 --> 00:31:02,545 session was called and 885 00:31:04,195 --> 00:31:04,445 legislation was passed to 886 00:31:04,695 --> 00:31:04,945 address immediate relief for 887 00:31:08,195 --> 00:31:08,445 residential property owners, um, 888 00:31:10,195 --> 00:31:10,445 allowing the split rates for the 889 00:31:12,195 --> 00:31:12,445 school districts and counties to 890 00:31:12,895 --> 00:31:13,145 charge higher tax rates on 891 00:31:14,261 --> 00:31:14,511 non-residential properties. 892 00:31:18,428 --> 00:31:18,678 Fall 2025 Special reassessment 893 00:31:19,095 --> 00:31:19,345 Committee was formed. 894 00:31:22,195 --> 00:31:22,445 Tasked with investigating the 895 00:31:24,228 --> 00:31:24,478 statewide property reassessment 896 00:31:24,928 --> 00:31:25,178 and providing a full and 897 00:31:26,361 --> 00:31:26,611 transparent accounting of the 898 00:31:28,495 --> 00:31:28,745 reassessment process and to 899 00:31:30,428 --> 00:31:30,678 recommend legislation that could 900 00:31:32,361 --> 00:31:32,611 improve the process and provide 901 00:31:33,028 --> 00:31:33,278 fairness to all taxpayers. 902 00:31:36,528 --> 00:31:36,778 Uh, there, that out of that came 903 00:31:38,528 --> 00:31:38,778 8 additional pieces of 904 00:31:38,995 --> 00:31:39,245 legislation. 905 00:31:40,361 --> 00:31:40,611 Um. 906 00:31:42,295 --> 00:31:42,545 And 907 00:31:44,295 --> 00:31:44,545 Uh, 908 00:31:46,595 --> 00:31:46,845 Part of that is the resolution 909 00:31:48,361 --> 00:31:48,611 that created this group. 910 00:31:54,228 --> 00:31:54,478 So and it's a split rate uh 911 00:31:56,328 --> 00:31:56,578 litigation, the split rate was 912 00:31:56,928 --> 00:31:57,178 challenged by a coalition of 913 00:31:58,495 --> 00:31:58,745 landlords and commercial 914 00:32:00,528 --> 00:32:00,778 property owners, arguing that 915 00:32:02,295 --> 00:32:02,545 the authority given to school 916 00:32:04,195 --> 00:32:04,445 districts to establish what 917 00:32:06,461 --> 00:32:06,711 rates was unconstitutional and 918 00:32:08,328 --> 00:32:08,578 resulted in a misplaced tax 919 00:32:08,928 --> 00:32:09,178 burden. 920 00:32:12,295 --> 00:32:12,545 Chancery Court ultimately upheld 921 00:32:12,995 --> 00:32:13,245 the split rates established 922 00:32:14,395 --> 00:32:14,645 under HB 242. 923 00:32:20,195 --> 00:32:20,445 In November 13th of 2025, the 924 00:32:20,795 --> 00:32:21,045 second special session was 925 00:32:22,495 --> 00:32:22,745 called. Due to the litigation, 926 00:32:24,561 --> 00:32:24,811 revised tax bills were 927 00:32:26,528 --> 00:32:26,778 significantly delayed and 928 00:32:28,195 --> 00:32:28,445 additional legislation was 929 00:32:30,195 --> 00:32:30,445 passed to extend the deadline 930 00:32:30,795 --> 00:32:31,045 for the payment of property 931 00:32:31,395 --> 00:32:31,645 taxes. 932 00:32:34,495 --> 00:32:34,745 Then in the 2026 regular 933 00:32:38,195 --> 00:32:38,445 session, additional legislation 934 00:32:40,195 --> 00:32:40,445 drafted by the Joint Special 935 00:32:40,861 --> 00:32:41,111 Reassessment Committee was 936 00:32:42,361 --> 00:32:42,611 drafted and considered by the 937 00:32:44,295 --> 00:32:44,545 General Assembly during this 938 00:32:44,861 --> 00:32:45,111 year's session. 939 00:32:46,295 --> 00:32:46,545 Uh, 940 00:32:54,395 --> 00:32:54,645 So then there's a nice picture 941 00:32:56,295 --> 00:32:56,545 of the general assembly. 942 00:32:58,561 --> 00:32:58,811 Meeting room with no one in it. 943 00:33:00,628 --> 00:33:00,878 OK, um. 944 00:33:06,461 --> 00:33:06,711 So the regular session, there 945 00:33:10,495 --> 00:33:10,745 was SB 228 um and SB 230, I'm 946 00:33:12,628 --> 00:33:12,878 sorry, SB 228. Pardon me, you 947 00:33:13,195 --> 00:33:13,445 skipped the page. 948 00:33:18,428 --> 00:33:18,678 So specialist, I'm sorry. 949 00:33:22,328 --> 00:33:22,578 So a special session, um. 950 00:33:26,528 --> 00:33:26,778 In August 2025 allowed New 951 00:33:28,361 --> 00:33:28,611 Castle County to modify the 952 00:33:30,328 --> 00:33:30,578 school property tax exemption 953 00:33:30,895 --> 00:33:31,145 amount. 954 00:33:32,428 --> 00:33:32,678 Uh, 955 00:33:34,495 --> 00:33:34,745 HB 240 required counties to 956 00:33:36,528 --> 00:33:36,778 issue refunds for overpayments 957 00:33:38,528 --> 00:33:38,778 of $50 or more. 958 00:33:40,528 --> 00:33:40,778 All other overpayments credited 959 00:33:42,228 --> 00:33:42,478 to future tax bills? 960 00:33:46,195 --> 00:33:46,445 HB 241 requires counties to 961 00:33:46,761 --> 00:33:47,011 offer payment plans for school 962 00:33:48,528 --> 00:33:48,778 and county taxes for an increase 963 00:33:50,295 --> 00:33:50,545 of $300 or more. 964 00:33:52,528 --> 00:33:52,778 HV 242. 965 00:33:56,195 --> 00:33:56,445 It's always nice when there's 966 00:33:58,428 --> 00:33:58,678 construction going on. HV 242 967 00:34:00,428 --> 00:34:00,678 allow Newcastle County, 968 00:34:02,395 --> 00:34:02,645 Newcastle school districts to 969 00:34:04,461 --> 00:34:04,711 reset tax rates and create and 970 00:34:08,228 --> 00:34:08,478 create split rates and extended 971 00:34:08,895 --> 00:34:09,145 payment due date to 11-30-25. 972 00:34:12,561 --> 00:34:12,811 Uh, Senate substitute one for 973 00:34:16,195 --> 00:34:16,445 Senate Bill 202 requires New 974 00:34:16,861 --> 00:34:17,111 Castle County to prepare and 975 00:34:18,528 --> 00:34:18,778 submit quarterly reports on 976 00:34:20,428 --> 00:34:20,678 utilization of payment plans, 977 00:34:24,228 --> 00:34:24,478 reassessment appeals, and taxes 978 00:34:24,861 --> 00:34:25,111 collected and distributed. 979 00:34:28,361 --> 00:34:28,611 Senate bills 203 and 204 980 00:34:30,328 --> 00:34:30,578 codifies the authority of 981 00:34:32,395 --> 00:34:32,645 counties and municipalities to 982 00:34:34,228 --> 00:34:34,478 tax property with different 983 00:34:34,761 --> 00:34:35,011 rates for different 984 00:34:36,295 --> 00:34:36,545 classifications. 985 00:34:38,595 --> 00:34:38,845 And special session, November of 986 00:34:42,528 --> 00:34:42,778 2025 for Senate Bill 20206 987 00:34:46,228 --> 00:34:46,478 extended property tax payment 988 00:34:48,561 --> 00:34:48,811 deadlines to December 31, 2025 989 00:34:52,328 --> 00:34:52,578 for the 2025, 2026 tax year. 990 00:34:54,428 --> 00:34:54,678 OK. 991 00:34:58,461 --> 00:34:58,711 The regular session in January 992 00:35:00,295 --> 00:35:00,545 through June of 2026. 993 00:35:02,428 --> 00:35:02,678 There was Senate Bill 228. 994 00:35:06,228 --> 00:35:06,478 Granted authority to New Castle 995 00:35:08,228 --> 00:35:08,478 County to review and correct 996 00:35:08,861 --> 00:35:09,111 evaluation errors of 997 00:35:10,428 --> 00:35:10,678 non-residential tax parsons. 998 00:35:12,495 --> 00:35:12,745 And I think probably the one 999 00:35:13,095 --> 00:35:13,345 that. 1000 00:35:16,261 --> 00:35:16,511 Got the most attention was the 1001 00:35:16,928 --> 00:35:17,178 Amazon warehouse. 1002 00:35:18,495 --> 00:35:18,745 It had initially been assessed 1003 00:35:19,095 --> 00:35:19,345 that. 1004 00:35:22,395 --> 00:35:22,645 About $100 million on 1005 00:35:24,428 --> 00:35:24,678 reassessment. Its assessment 1006 00:35:26,361 --> 00:35:26,611 went up to $300 million. 1007 00:35:28,395 --> 00:35:28,645 That added millions of dollars 1008 00:35:30,395 --> 00:35:30,645 to the back on the tax rolls, 1009 00:35:32,528 --> 00:35:32,778 Um, but there's also appeals 1010 00:35:34,461 --> 00:35:34,711 that have been going on. So 1011 00:35:36,328 --> 00:35:36,578 there's been a lot of ups and 1012 00:35:36,895 --> 00:35:37,145 downs, sort of trying to figure 1013 00:35:38,428 --> 00:35:38,678 out exactly what the tax base 1014 00:35:39,028 --> 00:35:39,278 is. 1015 00:35:42,628 --> 00:35:42,878 HB 461 gave special authority to 1016 00:35:44,561 --> 00:35:44,811 school districts in New Castle 1017 00:35:46,461 --> 00:35:46,711 County to reset their tax rate 1018 00:35:50,461 --> 00:35:50,711 for the 2026, 2027 tax year to 1019 00:35:52,295 --> 00:35:52,545 account for, for these 1020 00:35:52,828 --> 00:35:53,078 continuing adjustments. 1021 00:35:56,328 --> 00:35:56,578 OK, because as the appeals have 1022 00:35:58,228 --> 00:35:58,478 been going on and as these 1023 00:36:00,228 --> 00:36:00,478 reassessments of commercial 1024 00:36:00,861 --> 00:36:01,111 properties have been happening. 1025 00:36:02,561 --> 00:36:02,811 The school districts are having 1026 00:36:04,428 --> 00:36:04,678 changes to what their tax base 1027 00:36:06,328 --> 00:36:06,578 is, so they, in order to be able 1028 00:36:07,028 --> 00:36:07,278 to. 1029 00:36:08,428 --> 00:36:08,678 Get the revenue they expect, 1030 00:36:10,195 --> 00:36:10,445 they may have to adjust the 1031 00:36:12,195 --> 00:36:12,445 rates and this gave them that 1032 00:36:14,428 --> 00:36:14,678 ability. SV 230 granted subpoena 1033 00:36:16,361 --> 00:36:16,611 power to all three counties to 1034 00:36:18,428 --> 00:36:18,678 sufficiently access testimony 1035 00:36:20,228 --> 00:36:20,478 evidence used to determine the 1036 00:36:22,261 --> 00:36:22,511 fair market value of real 1037 00:36:22,828 --> 00:36:23,078 property. 1038 00:36:26,295 --> 00:36:26,545 HP 462 allows non-vocational 1039 00:36:28,295 --> 00:36:28,545 school districts in New Castle 1040 00:36:28,928 --> 00:36:29,178 County to continue setting split 1041 00:36:29,628 --> 00:36:29,878 rates. 1042 00:36:34,195 --> 00:36:34,445 HV 460 expanded permit data 1043 00:36:36,228 --> 00:36:36,478 sharing requirements in New 1044 00:36:38,195 --> 00:36:38,445 Castle County to prepare for the 1045 00:36:38,895 --> 00:36:39,145 next reassessment. 1046 00:36:42,328 --> 00:36:42,578 Um, I would say that's was 1047 00:36:44,461 --> 00:36:44,711 partly in response to what Sarah 1048 00:36:45,128 --> 00:36:45,378 Cade 1049 00:36:48,295 --> 00:36:48,545 pointed out that there was not a 1050 00:36:48,928 --> 00:36:49,178 good communication to the. 1051 00:36:50,328 --> 00:36:50,578 Uh, 1052 00:36:56,195 --> 00:36:56,445 Assessors and the county of 1053 00:36:56,795 --> 00:36:57,045 which properties had had 1054 00:37:00,228 --> 00:37:00,478 renovations done because the 1055 00:37:00,895 --> 00:37:01,145 permit data was not forwarded, 1056 00:37:02,261 --> 00:37:02,511 so it wasn't uh. 1057 00:37:04,495 --> 00:37:04,745 I think there was a fall through 1058 00:37:06,395 --> 00:37:06,645 in the sharing of data which 1059 00:37:08,361 --> 00:37:08,611 also led to part of the problem 1060 00:37:10,395 --> 00:37:10,645 with float towels is not being 1061 00:37:11,095 --> 00:37:11,345 recognized that they had been 1062 00:37:11,695 --> 00:37:11,945 flipped. 1063 00:37:14,328 --> 00:37:14,578 And basically the flip tiles 1064 00:37:16,328 --> 00:37:16,578 haven't been sold on a block at 1065 00:37:18,195 --> 00:37:18,445 much higher, it had much higher 1066 00:37:18,895 --> 00:37:19,145 value than the rest of the 1067 00:37:20,261 --> 00:37:20,511 residences on the block. 1068 00:37:26,261 --> 00:37:26,511 OK, um, SB 322 repeals school 1069 00:37:28,195 --> 00:37:28,445 districts' ability to increase 1070 00:37:30,295 --> 00:37:30,545 tax rates by up to 10% after a 1071 00:37:30,995 --> 00:37:31,245 general reassessment. 1072 00:37:36,328 --> 00:37:36,578 HCR 150 establishes the Property 1073 00:37:38,528 --> 00:37:38,778 assessment Working Group NHCR 1074 00:37:42,228 --> 00:37:42,478 151 establishes the property tax 1075 00:37:42,895 --> 00:37:43,145 relief and Modernization Working 1076 00:37:46,428 --> 00:37:46,678 Group, which is us, so the, the 1077 00:37:48,228 --> 00:37:48,478 technicalities of how the 1078 00:37:48,761 --> 00:37:49,011 assessment is done is being 1079 00:37:50,661 --> 00:37:50,911 handled by the other working 1080 00:37:52,395 --> 00:37:52,645 group established under HCR 150. 1081 00:37:54,628 --> 00:37:54,878 Yeah. 1082 00:38:00,495 --> 00:38:00,745 We have pending legislation. 1083 00:38:02,395 --> 00:38:02,645 but it's, it's not actually 1084 00:38:04,261 --> 00:38:04,511 pending anymore, right, because. 1085 00:38:06,428 --> 00:38:06,678 These were things that died on 1086 00:38:08,361 --> 00:38:08,611 the vine when you have an 1087 00:38:10,195 --> 00:38:10,445 election and a new legislature 1088 00:38:14,195 --> 00:38:14,445 seated, all legislation is gone, 1089 00:38:14,861 --> 00:38:15,111 it has to be reintroduced, but 1090 00:38:16,495 --> 00:38:16,745 this, we'll go over the 1091 00:38:18,328 --> 00:38:18,578 legislation that was in the 1092 00:38:18,895 --> 00:38:19,145 pipeline at the end of the 1093 00:38:19,528 --> 00:38:19,778 session. 1094 00:38:22,628 --> 00:38:22,878 HV 72 changes the residency 1095 00:38:23,195 --> 00:38:23,445 requirement. 1096 00:38:26,395 --> 00:38:26,645 For seniors from 10 years to 3 1097 00:38:28,528 --> 00:38:28,778 years as it was prior to 2017. 1098 00:38:32,228 --> 00:38:32,478 That was in Appropriations 1099 00:38:32,761 --> 00:38:33,011 Committee. I don't think it got 1100 00:38:33,428 --> 00:38:33,678 out of committee. 1101 00:38:38,228 --> 00:38:38,478 HB 73 raises senior property tax 1102 00:38:40,595 --> 00:38:40,845 credit cap from $500 to $1000. 1103 00:38:42,328 --> 00:38:42,578 That was in appropriations. 1104 00:38:46,495 --> 00:38:46,745 HB 349 modifies the eligibility 1105 00:38:50,261 --> 00:38:50,511 standard from 100% disability to 1106 00:38:52,295 --> 00:38:52,545 80% disability or greater for 1107 00:38:54,328 --> 00:38:54,578 veterans to qualify for credit 1108 00:38:56,361 --> 00:38:56,611 against school taxation on 1109 00:38:56,895 --> 00:38:57,145 qualified property. 1110 00:38:58,528 --> 00:38:58,778 That was also an appropriations. 1111 00:39:02,428 --> 00:39:02,678 SB 149 creates a consistent 1112 00:39:04,295 --> 00:39:04,545 process for counties and 1113 00:39:06,328 --> 00:39:06,578 municipalities to exempt 1114 00:39:08,328 --> 00:39:08,578 low income housing tax credit 1115 00:39:10,295 --> 00:39:10,545 properties from property and 1116 00:39:12,495 --> 00:39:12,745 school district taxes and that's 1117 00:39:14,328 --> 00:39:14,578 uh that was on the Senate ready 1118 00:39:16,228 --> 00:39:16,478 list, um. 1119 00:39:18,328 --> 00:39:18,578 So it got through committee in 1120 00:39:18,995 --> 00:39:19,245 the Senate, but did not. 1121 00:39:22,195 --> 00:39:22,445 Get a vote in the Senate and 1122 00:39:24,228 --> 00:39:24,478 comes to the House. SB 350 1123 00:39:26,161 --> 00:39:26,411 creates a statewide system for 1124 00:39:28,195 --> 00:39:28,445 classifying property by use and 1125 00:39:28,928 --> 00:39:29,178 allows counties and school 1126 00:39:30,295 --> 00:39:30,545 districts to use differential 1127 00:39:32,395 --> 00:39:32,645 tax rates for different property 1128 00:39:34,428 --> 00:39:34,678 types, and that was in the 1129 00:39:34,961 --> 00:39:35,211 executive committee. 1130 00:39:36,428 --> 00:39:36,678 Um, 1131 00:39:40,195 --> 00:39:40,445 So they would need to be 1132 00:39:42,228 --> 00:39:42,478 reinduced in 2027 for 1133 00:39:44,428 --> 00:39:44,678 consideration by the assembly, 1134 00:39:45,095 --> 00:39:45,345 um. 1135 00:39:50,395 --> 00:39:50,645 Most, I would say, again, as we 1136 00:39:52,228 --> 00:39:52,478 go through these, you'll see 1137 00:39:54,228 --> 00:39:54,478 that there aren't easy answers, 1138 00:39:54,928 --> 00:39:55,178 even though, yes. 1139 00:39:56,495 --> 00:39:56,745 Um, I, I just wanna go back 1140 00:40:00,295 --> 00:40:00,545 quickly to um the HCR 150 1141 00:40:02,161 --> 00:40:02,411 stablishing Property Tax 1142 00:40:02,728 --> 00:40:02,978 Assessment Working Group. If 1143 00:40:04,695 --> 00:40:04,945 they're working now, can we be 1144 00:40:06,495 --> 00:40:06,745 regularly given digital copies 1145 00:40:08,461 --> 00:40:08,711 of their minutes so we see what 1146 00:40:10,295 --> 00:40:10,545 they did. There's probably a 1147 00:40:10,861 --> 00:40:11,111 real easy way to do it. I just 1148 00:40:12,461 --> 00:40:12,711 don't know what it is, but it'd 1149 00:40:13,161 --> 00:40:13,411 Um, I, I just wanna go back 1150 00:40:13,761 --> 00:40:14,011 quickly to um the HCR 150 1151 00:40:14,361 --> 00:40:14,611 stablishing Property Tax 1152 00:40:14,828 --> 00:40:15,078 Assessment Working Group. If 1153 00:40:15,428 --> 00:40:15,678 they're working now, can we be 1154 00:40:16,128 --> 00:40:16,378 regularly given digital copies 1155 00:40:16,828 --> 00:40:17,078 of their minutes so we see what 1156 00:40:17,461 --> 00:40:17,711 they did. There's probably a 1157 00:40:18,061 --> 00:40:18,311 real easy way to do it. I just 1158 00:40:18,761 --> 00:40:19,011 don't know what it is, but it 1159 00:40:19,361 --> 00:40:19,611 would be nice if we all were on 1160 00:40:20,061 --> 00:40:20,311 the same page with what they 1161 00:40:20,628 --> 00:40:20,878 were doing. Yeah, and they're 1162 00:40:21,228 --> 00:40:21,478 looking at uh the technicalities 1163 00:40:21,961 --> 00:40:22,211 of how the assessment is done. 1164 00:40:22,595 --> 00:40:22,845 Which is 1165 00:40:24,295 --> 00:40:24,545 Actually a separate issue from 1166 00:40:26,228 --> 00:40:26,478 what we're working on, and it is 1167 00:40:26,861 --> 00:40:27,111 available online, but I'll see 1168 00:40:27,561 --> 00:40:27,811 if we can get that. 1169 00:40:30,561 --> 00:40:30,811 That too. Thank you. 1170 00:40:34,295 --> 00:40:34,545 OK, 1171 00:40:36,428 --> 00:40:36,678 um, so they'd need to be 1172 00:40:38,361 --> 00:40:38,611 reintroduced in 2027. 1173 00:40:42,495 --> 00:40:42,745 OK, if we go then to statewide 1174 00:40:44,895 --> 00:40:45,145 relief programs. These are 1175 00:40:46,328 --> 00:40:46,578 programs that are in place now. 1176 00:40:48,228 --> 00:40:48,478 Um. 1177 00:40:50,361 --> 00:40:50,611 And so there's a senior school 1178 00:40:51,028 --> 00:40:51,278 tax credit. 1179 00:40:54,561 --> 00:40:54,811 Homeowners age 65 and over are 1180 00:40:56,295 --> 00:40:56,545 eligible for 5. 1181 00:40:58,561 --> 00:40:58,811 A credit of 50% off their school 1182 00:41:02,528 --> 00:41:02,778 tax amount up to 500. There's no 1183 00:41:04,461 --> 00:41:04,711 income requirements. Residents 1184 00:41:06,295 --> 00:41:06,545 who moved to the state between 1185 00:41:08,528 --> 00:41:08,778 2013 and 2017, must have lived 1186 00:41:10,428 --> 00:41:10,678 in Delaware for at least 3 1187 00:41:12,561 --> 00:41:12,811 consecutive years, residents who 1188 00:41:14,461 --> 00:41:14,711 moved to the state after 2018 1189 00:41:16,461 --> 00:41:16,711 must have lived in Delaware for 1190 00:41:18,328 --> 00:41:18,578 at least 10 consecutive years. 1191 00:41:19,028 --> 00:41:19,278 OK. 1192 00:41:20,328 --> 00:41:20,578 Now, 1193 00:41:22,495 --> 00:41:22,745 These are very attractive. 1194 00:41:26,195 --> 00:41:26,445 I mean these types of things, 1195 00:41:26,795 --> 00:41:27,045 everyone always likes to do 1196 00:41:28,495 --> 00:41:28,745 things for seniors. It's, yeah, 1197 00:41:32,228 --> 00:41:32,478 legislators love doing that 1198 00:41:32,761 --> 00:41:33,011 because, you know, that makes 1199 00:41:33,428 --> 00:41:33,678 you look. 1200 00:41:36,228 --> 00:41:36,478 Attractive to seniors and 1201 00:41:36,728 --> 00:41:36,978 seniors are the most reliable 1202 00:41:38,495 --> 00:41:38,745 voting block, so people tend to 1203 00:41:39,195 --> 00:41:39,445 cater to seniors a lot. 1204 00:41:42,361 --> 00:41:42,611 One of the things I'll point out 1205 00:41:43,028 --> 00:41:43,278 with this is that. 1206 00:41:46,228 --> 00:41:46,478 This tax credit is money that 1207 00:41:46,895 --> 00:41:47,145 comes out of the state budget. 1208 00:41:50,428 --> 00:41:50,678 To offset money that goes into 1209 00:41:51,128 --> 00:41:51,378 school district budget. 1210 00:41:52,428 --> 00:41:52,678 So, um. 1211 00:41:56,228 --> 00:41:56,478 Yeah, that's something we need 1212 00:42:00,161 --> 00:42:00,411 to keep in mind that this is not 1213 00:42:02,228 --> 00:42:02,478 a, uh, school districts have 1214 00:42:02,861 --> 00:42:03,111 their own elected. 1215 00:42:04,361 --> 00:42:04,611 Members, school boards. 1216 00:42:08,195 --> 00:42:08,445 They're responsible for how they 1217 00:42:08,895 --> 00:42:09,145 do their budgets. 1218 00:42:12,395 --> 00:42:12,645 And um it it may seem very easy 1219 00:42:14,228 --> 00:42:14,478 to say the state can just step 1220 00:42:14,928 --> 00:42:15,178 in and. 1221 00:42:16,495 --> 00:42:16,745 Pay money, but that means 1222 00:42:18,195 --> 00:42:18,445 everybody in the state gets 1223 00:42:18,828 --> 00:42:19,078 burdened with with doing that. 1224 00:42:20,461 --> 00:42:20,711 So just something to keep in 1225 00:42:24,395 --> 00:42:24,645 mind, disabled veterans school 1226 00:42:26,295 --> 00:42:26,545 tax credit, right now it'll, 1227 00:42:28,228 --> 00:42:28,478 it's available to veterans with 1228 00:42:30,328 --> 00:42:30,578 a 100% disability rating from 1229 00:42:32,261 --> 00:42:32,511 the Department of Veteran 1230 00:42:32,861 --> 00:42:33,111 Affairs. 1231 00:42:34,561 --> 00:42:34,811 Must have legal domicile in 1232 00:42:36,295 --> 00:42:36,545 Delaware for the past 3 years. 1233 00:42:38,495 --> 00:42:38,745 And an individual cannot receive 1234 00:42:40,528 --> 00:42:40,778 both the disabled veteran and 1235 00:42:41,161 --> 00:42:41,411 senior tax credits. 1236 00:42:46,428 --> 00:42:46,678 Then we're going to county by 1237 00:42:48,495 --> 00:42:48,745 counties, county specific 1238 00:42:49,095 --> 00:42:49,345 programs. 1239 00:42:50,595 --> 00:42:50,845 New Castle County relief 1240 00:42:51,095 --> 00:42:51,345 programs. 1241 00:42:56,328 --> 00:42:56,578 The over 65 exemption, residents 1242 00:42:58,395 --> 00:42:58,645 age 65 or older by July 1st of 1243 00:43:00,295 --> 00:43:00,545 the current tax year may be 1244 00:43:02,395 --> 00:43:02,645 eligible 1245 00:43:06,328 --> 00:43:06,578 for up to the $173,000 for up to 1246 00:43:10,261 --> 00:43:10,511 $173,000 to be subtracted from 1247 00:43:12,395 --> 00:43:12,645 the total assessed value of 1248 00:43:12,961 --> 00:43:13,211 their home 1249 00:43:14,461 --> 00:43:14,711 Must be a resident of Delaware 1250 00:43:16,461 --> 00:43:16,711 for at least 10 years and have a 1251 00:43:18,595 --> 00:43:18,845 single or combined income of 1252 00:43:22,395 --> 00:43:22,645 less than $65,000. So here we 1253 00:43:23,061 --> 00:43:23,311 see something. 1254 00:43:24,395 --> 00:43:24,645 It's um 1255 00:43:28,528 --> 00:43:28,778 targeted both by age and 1256 00:43:30,428 --> 00:43:30,678 disability exemption in New 1257 00:43:30,961 --> 00:43:31,211 Castle County, disabled 1258 00:43:32,528 --> 00:43:32,778 residents are eligible for an 1259 00:43:36,595 --> 00:43:36,845 exemption of up to $427,000 to 1260 00:43:38,495 --> 00:43:38,745 be subtracted from the total 1261 00:43:40,261 --> 00:43:40,511 assessed value of their home. 1262 00:43:42,528 --> 00:43:42,778 The total amount depended on the 1263 00:43:44,228 --> 00:43:44,478 extent of the resident's 1264 00:43:46,261 --> 00:43:46,511 disability and whether their 1265 00:43:46,861 --> 00:43:47,111 disability is due to prior 1266 00:43:48,295 --> 00:43:48,545 military service. 1267 00:43:52,195 --> 00:43:52,445 So for the school for the 1268 00:43:52,761 --> 00:43:53,011 property tax, you must be a 1269 00:43:54,328 --> 00:43:54,578 Delaware resident for at least 1270 00:43:55,028 --> 00:43:55,278 10 years. 1271 00:43:56,528 --> 00:43:56,778 And have a single or combined 1272 00:44:00,461 --> 00:44:00,711 income of less than 65,000 for 1273 00:44:02,295 --> 00:44:02,545 school tax, you must be a 1274 00:44:04,195 --> 00:44:04,445 Delaware resident prior to July 1275 00:44:06,228 --> 00:44:06,478 1st of the current tax year and 1276 00:44:06,961 --> 00:44:07,211 have an income of less than. 1277 00:44:10,428 --> 00:44:10,678 Then $15,000 if you're single or 1278 00:44:12,695 --> 00:44:12,945 $19,000 for a joint, joint 1279 00:44:13,295 --> 00:44:13,545 income. 1280 00:44:14,428 --> 00:44:14,678 Um, 1281 00:44:18,261 --> 00:44:18,511 Also line of duty death 1282 00:44:20,361 --> 00:44:20,611 exemption, the surviving spouse 1283 00:44:22,428 --> 00:44:22,678 of a qualifying individual who 1284 00:44:24,361 --> 00:44:24,611 dies in the line of duty may be 1285 00:44:26,428 --> 00:44:26,678 eligible for a property tax 1286 00:44:27,061 --> 00:44:27,311 exemption for up to 10 years. 1287 00:44:30,228 --> 00:44:30,478 So 1288 00:44:30,528 --> 00:44:30,778 the first in that time, the 1289 00:44:32,428 --> 00:44:32,678 surviving spouse may not 1290 00:44:34,495 --> 00:44:34,745 remarry, must be the titled 1291 00:44:36,461 --> 00:44:36,711 owner of the property and must 1292 00:44:38,428 --> 00:44:38,678 continue living in the home as a 1293 00:44:40,528 --> 00:44:40,778 primary residence to retain that 1294 00:44:41,195 --> 00:44:41,445 eligibility. 1295 00:44:44,228 --> 00:44:44,478 There's some additional 1296 00:44:44,761 --> 00:44:45,011 exemptions, historic property 1297 00:44:45,461 --> 00:44:45,711 exemption. 1298 00:44:48,395 --> 00:44:48,645 Farmland assessment exemption 1299 00:44:50,328 --> 00:44:50,578 for agricultural property must 1300 00:44:52,461 --> 00:44:52,711 Generate at least $1000 of 1301 00:44:53,028 --> 00:44:53,278 income. 1302 00:44:56,295 --> 00:44:56,545 Uh, and city of Wilmington 1303 00:44:56,895 --> 00:44:57,145 exemption. 1304 00:44:58,495 --> 00:44:58,745 Only eligible for newly 1305 00:45:00,595 --> 00:45:00,845 constructed commercial and 1306 00:45:02,428 --> 00:45:02,678 manufacturing properties in 1307 00:45:04,428 --> 00:45:04,678 which site acquisition or 1308 00:45:06,395 --> 00:45:06,645 construction cost exceeds 1309 00:45:06,895 --> 00:45:07,145 $50,000. 1310 00:45:08,328 --> 00:45:08,578 Yeah. 1311 00:45:12,428 --> 00:45:12,678 Current Kent County relief 1312 00:45:13,061 --> 00:45:13,311 programs. 1313 00:45:16,228 --> 00:45:16,478 Over 65 intention. 1314 00:45:20,228 --> 00:45:20,478 Residents aged 65 or older by 1315 00:45:22,328 --> 00:45:22,578 May 31st, the current tax year 1316 00:45:24,228 --> 00:45:24,478 may qualify for a reduction in 1317 00:45:24,928 --> 00:45:25,178 their taxable assessment, 1318 00:45:26,495 --> 00:45:26,745 reducing or potentially 1319 00:45:28,495 --> 00:45:28,745 eliminating their property tax 1320 00:45:29,195 --> 00:45:29,445 liability. 1321 00:45:32,228 --> 00:45:32,478 Must be a resident of Delaware 1322 00:45:34,328 --> 00:45:34,578 for at least 5 years and must 1323 00:45:36,461 --> 00:45:36,711 live and maintain the property 1324 00:45:38,461 --> 00:45:38,711 as their primary residence for 1325 00:45:40,428 --> 00:45:40,678 at least one year and must have 1326 00:45:42,461 --> 00:45:42,711 an adjusted gross income of less 1327 00:45:43,128 --> 00:45:43,378 than $18,000. 1328 00:45:46,395 --> 00:45:46,645 For someone who's single and a 1329 00:45:50,328 --> 00:45:50,578 joint income of 24,750 combined. 1330 00:45:54,361 --> 00:45:54,611 Disability exemption, residents 1331 00:45:56,328 --> 00:45:56,578 who are entirely disabled may 1332 00:45:58,361 --> 00:45:58,611 qualify for reduction in their 1333 00:46:00,428 --> 00:46:00,678 taxable assessment, reducing or 1334 00:46:02,295 --> 00:46:02,545 potentially eliminating the 1335 00:46:02,861 --> 00:46:03,111 property tax liability. 1336 00:46:06,195 --> 00:46:06,445 Must be a resident of Delaware 1337 00:46:06,895 --> 00:46:07,145 for the last 5 years. 1338 00:46:08,361 --> 00:46:08,611 Must live and maintain the 1339 00:46:10,495 --> 00:46:10,745 properties of primary residents 1340 00:46:12,328 --> 00:46:12,578 for at least one year. You must 1341 00:46:14,195 --> 00:46:14,445 have an adjusted gross income of 1342 00:46:14,895 --> 00:46:15,145 less than 18,000 if you're 1343 00:46:16,595 --> 00:46:16,845 single or $24,000 combined. 1344 00:46:20,395 --> 00:46:20,645 There's additional exemptions. 1345 00:46:22,461 --> 00:46:22,711 Industry exemptions, select 1346 00:46:24,395 --> 00:46:24,645 businesses and industries 1347 00:46:26,428 --> 00:46:26,678 needing specific financial 1348 00:46:28,428 --> 00:46:28,678 investment and job creation 1349 00:46:30,395 --> 00:46:30,645 criteria may be eligible for a 1350 00:46:32,295 --> 00:46:32,545 gradual reduction in county 1351 00:46:34,361 --> 00:46:34,611 property taxes over 10 years 1352 00:46:36,528 --> 00:46:36,778 through Kent County Economic 1353 00:46:37,128 --> 00:46:37,378 Partnership. 1354 00:46:40,328 --> 00:46:40,578 Um, farmland exemptions, 1355 00:46:42,461 --> 00:46:42,711 agricultural land excluding 1356 00:46:43,028 --> 00:46:43,278 improvements. 1357 00:46:46,328 --> 00:46:46,578 They qualify for tax exemption 1358 00:46:48,361 --> 00:46:48,611 under the Farmland Assessment 1359 00:46:52,328 --> 00:46:52,578 Act of 1968. If specific 1360 00:46:52,861 --> 00:46:53,111 requirements are met and through 1361 00:46:54,428 --> 00:46:54,678 the Agricultural Lands 1362 00:46:54,995 --> 00:46:55,245 Preservation Foundation. 1363 00:47:00,195 --> 00:47:00,445 Uniform military personnel 1364 00:47:02,361 --> 00:47:02,611 credit, persons who have served 1365 00:47:04,295 --> 00:47:04,545 in combat zones beginning on or 1366 00:47:06,461 --> 00:47:06,711 after November 13, 2007, may 1367 00:47:08,395 --> 00:47:08,645 qualify to receive partial 1368 00:47:10,528 --> 00:47:10,778 relief from county government 1369 00:47:11,195 --> 00:47:11,445 property taxes. 1370 00:47:18,461 --> 00:47:18,711 OK, then we move on to Sussex 1371 00:47:19,061 --> 00:47:19,311 County. 1372 00:47:22,228 --> 00:47:22,478 Suss Sussex County relief 1373 00:47:22,828 --> 00:47:23,078 programs. 1374 00:47:26,195 --> 00:47:26,445 Over 65 exemption, residents 1375 00:47:28,328 --> 00:47:28,578 aged 65 or older by June 30th, 1376 00:47:30,261 --> 00:47:30,511 the current tax year may be 1377 00:47:32,195 --> 00:47:32,445 eligible for exemption to be 1378 00:47:34,195 --> 00:47:34,445 applied to taxable assessments 1379 00:47:36,595 --> 00:47:36,845 up to $229,000 of the assessed 1380 00:47:38,561 --> 00:47:38,811 value. Must be a full-time 1381 00:47:40,561 --> 00:47:40,811 resident of Sussex County for 1382 00:47:44,228 --> 00:47:44,478 the preceding 5 years, must have 1383 00:47:46,461 --> 00:47:46,711 an income less than $6000 if 1384 00:47:48,628 --> 00:47:48,878 single for $7500 combined. 1385 00:47:50,261 --> 00:47:50,511 Mm. 1386 00:47:50,511 --> 00:47:50,761 I 1387 00:47:54,461 --> 00:47:54,711 Yes, that is ridiculous. I, I, 1388 00:47:55,128 --> 00:47:55,378 some of these. 1389 00:47:58,328 --> 00:47:58,578 Values were probably set many, 1390 00:48:02,328 --> 00:48:02,578 many years ago and if someone's 1391 00:48:03,028 --> 00:48:03,278 comment on that, yeah. Well, 1392 00:48:04,528 --> 00:48:04,778 please note that some of those 1393 00:48:06,395 --> 00:48:06,645 values do not include Social 1394 00:48:08,195 --> 00:48:08,445 Security, they only include 1395 00:48:08,761 --> 00:48:09,011 other income other than Social 1396 00:48:10,461 --> 00:48:10,711 Security. That's why the values 1397 00:48:12,395 --> 00:48:12,645 are low. Social Security is 1398 00:48:16,228 --> 00:48:16,478 excluded. OK, thank you. 1399 00:48:16,795 --> 00:48:17,045 Um, 1400 00:48:20,528 --> 00:48:20,778 So Sussex County property tax 1401 00:48:22,528 --> 00:48:22,778 subsidy, low income residents 1402 00:48:24,661 --> 00:48:24,911 may be eligible for subsidy to 1403 00:48:28,461 --> 00:48:28,711 be applied to the 1st 16,000 of 1404 00:48:30,428 --> 00:48:30,678 taxable assessment for the 1405 00:48:32,328 --> 00:48:32,578 county portion of their tax bill 1406 00:48:32,995 --> 00:48:33,245 only. 1407 00:48:34,528 --> 00:48:34,778 Must be a full-time resident of 1408 00:48:36,561 --> 00:48:36,811 Sussex County for the preceding 1409 00:48:38,661 --> 00:48:38,911 5 years, must have an income of 1410 00:48:42,495 --> 00:48:42,745 less than $15,800 in single or 1411 00:48:46,428 --> 00:48:46,678 $20,000 combined. Liquid assets 1412 00:48:48,395 --> 00:48:48,645 or real estate must be less than 1413 00:48:52,228 --> 00:48:52,478 $15,000 not including, uh, 1414 00:48:52,861 --> 00:48:53,111 primary residents. 1415 00:48:54,395 --> 00:48:54,645 Yeah. 1416 00:48:58,395 --> 00:48:58,645 So. 1417 00:49:02,428 --> 00:49:02,678 Yes, Senator Huxtable, thank 1418 00:49:04,361 --> 00:49:04,611 you, Representative Burns. Is it 1419 00:49:06,595 --> 00:49:06,845 possible, so I mean, we, as this 1420 00:49:08,561 --> 00:49:08,811 committee looks on a statewide 1421 00:49:10,628 --> 00:49:10,878 basis of what potential programs 1422 00:49:12,428 --> 00:49:12,678 that might be out there on the 1423 00:49:14,328 --> 00:49:14,578 property tax relief and 1424 00:49:16,361 --> 00:49:16,611 modernization and and not 1425 00:49:18,328 --> 00:49:18,578 wanting to like, and, and also 1426 00:49:20,328 --> 00:49:20,578 working in concert with with the 1427 00:49:22,461 --> 00:49:22,711 counties and their programs, is 1428 00:49:24,528 --> 00:49:24,778 it possible to find out roughly 1429 00:49:26,395 --> 00:49:26,645 how many people may qualify or 1430 00:49:28,595 --> 00:49:28,845 who are using the current 1431 00:49:29,161 --> 00:49:29,411 program, so we aren't. 1432 00:49:32,428 --> 00:49:32,678 Uh, maybe instead of just 1433 00:49:34,261 --> 00:49:34,511 targeting the same people, you 1434 00:49:36,161 --> 00:49:36,411 know, we just figure out how we 1435 00:49:38,228 --> 00:49:38,478 are working together in concert. 1436 00:49:40,228 --> 00:49:40,478 I, I guess my question is really 1437 00:49:40,928 --> 00:49:41,178 to. 1438 00:49:42,361 --> 00:49:42,611 The county representatives 1439 00:49:42,961 --> 00:49:43,211 current status. 1440 00:49:46,328 --> 00:49:46,578 Yeah, yeah, there's, if there's, 1441 00:49:48,228 --> 00:49:48,478 it's a robust program and lots 1442 00:49:48,895 --> 00:49:49,145 of people are taking advantage 1443 00:49:50,495 --> 00:49:50,745 of it or if it's not well 1444 00:49:52,195 --> 00:49:52,445 subscribed because I think 1445 00:49:54,195 --> 00:49:54,445 that'll help us figure out where 1446 00:49:54,928 --> 00:49:55,178 where we may need to land. 1447 00:49:56,295 --> 00:49:56,545 Is that something? 1448 00:50:00,228 --> 00:50:00,478 I'm going to ask uh the county 1449 00:50:00,828 --> 00:50:01,078 representatives weigh in if they 1450 00:50:02,428 --> 00:50:02,678 will. Is that something that you 1451 00:50:04,428 --> 00:50:04,678 think would be reasonable to ask 1452 00:50:06,461 --> 00:50:06,711 is try to find out sort of what 1453 00:50:08,428 --> 00:50:08,678 the level of participation 1454 00:50:10,195 --> 00:50:10,445 in the various common level 1455 00:50:12,395 --> 00:50:12,645 relief programs are, 1456 00:50:12,828 --> 00:50:13,078 uh, Dave Del Grande here, New 1457 00:50:14,328 --> 00:50:14,578 Castle County, 1458 00:50:16,361 --> 00:50:16,611 Uh, we can pull data from our 1459 00:50:18,628 --> 00:50:18,878 last tax bill cycle and see what 1460 00:50:20,328 --> 00:50:20,578 that information was, if that's. 1461 00:50:22,561 --> 00:50:22,811 That's 1462 00:50:24,361 --> 00:50:24,611 Newcastle County can. That would 1463 00:50:28,228 --> 00:50:28,478 be very helpful, um, so. We can 1464 00:50:28,861 --> 00:50:29,111 do the same. OK. 1465 00:50:30,495 --> 00:50:30,745 And Sussex can do the same, but 1466 00:50:32,295 --> 00:50:32,545 I just want to make it clear, 1467 00:50:34,295 --> 00:50:34,545 our numbers are very low because 1468 00:50:36,228 --> 00:50:36,478 our average tax bill in Sussex 1469 00:50:38,428 --> 00:50:38,678 is $124. So when you look at 1470 00:50:40,228 --> 00:50:40,478 incomes and why not many people 1471 00:50:40,895 --> 00:50:41,145 are qualifying is because their 1472 00:50:42,528 --> 00:50:42,778 taxes are super low, so we're 1473 00:50:44,195 --> 00:50:44,445 not gonna have much 1474 00:50:44,628 --> 00:50:44,878 participation, but we can get 1475 00:50:45,195 --> 00:50:45,445 you that information. 1476 00:50:48,528 --> 00:50:48,778 But do those, does that also um 1477 00:50:52,295 --> 00:50:52,545 Extend the school taxes. It does 1478 00:50:54,195 --> 00:50:54,445 not. It's only county taxes. 1479 00:50:54,761 --> 00:50:55,011 We're talking about programs, 1480 00:50:55,461 --> 00:50:55,711 yeah, 1481 00:50:56,195 --> 00:50:56,445 Extend the school taxes. It does 1482 00:50:56,895 --> 00:50:57,145 not. It's only county taxes. 1483 00:50:57,495 --> 00:50:57,745 We're talking about programs 1484 00:50:58,061 --> 00:50:58,311 yeah 1485 00:50:58,311 --> 00:50:58,561 But, and are your programs 1486 00:50:58,828 --> 00:50:59,078 strictly for the county for the 1487 00:51:00,461 --> 00:51:00,711 county. And it doesn't, not the 1488 00:51:02,195 --> 00:51:02,445 county. And it doesn't not 1489 00:51:02,761 --> 00:51:03,011 scoreboard. OK. 1490 00:51:03,128 --> 00:51:03,378 That's a good that's not true 1491 00:51:04,228 --> 00:51:04,478 Extend the school taxes. It does 1492 00:51:04,928 --> 00:51:05,178 not. It's only county taxes. 1493 00:51:05,495 --> 00:51:05,745 We're talking about programs, 1494 00:51:06,195 --> 00:51:06,445 yeah. 1495 00:51:06,445 --> 00:51:06,695 But, and are your programs 1496 00:51:06,928 --> 00:51:07,178 strictly for the county for the 1497 00:51:07,628 --> 00:51:07,878 county. And it doesn't not 1498 00:51:08,228 --> 00:51:08,478 scoreboard. OK. That's a good 1499 00:51:08,828 --> 00:51:09,078 point that's not true for us, 1500 00:51:09,428 --> 00:51:09,678 right? So, and I believe in New 1501 00:51:10,128 --> 00:51:10,378 Castle County. 1502 00:51:10,528 --> 00:51:10,778 Is it for both or is it 1503 00:51:10,995 --> 00:51:11,245 specifically counting tax? 1504 00:51:12,528 --> 00:51:12,778 I will go back and look at that. 1505 00:51:16,195 --> 00:51:16,445 I'll be 100% certain. I know we 1506 00:51:16,861 --> 00:51:17,111 kind of bleed over into either 1507 00:51:20,328 --> 00:51:20,578 side. Let me look. Because when 1508 00:51:20,961 --> 00:51:21,211 the taxpayer gets their bill. 1509 00:51:24,328 --> 00:51:24,578 They're not really parsing it to 1510 00:51:26,328 --> 00:51:26,578 county versus school. So, you 1511 00:51:26,928 --> 00:51:27,178 know they're looking at what 1512 00:51:28,295 --> 00:51:28,545 their total tax burden is, so. 1513 00:51:28,928 --> 00:51:29,178 Um, 1514 00:51:32,495 --> 00:51:32,745 Pretty good. So we could get 1515 00:51:34,228 --> 00:51:34,478 Pretty good. So if we could get 1516 00:51:34,895 --> 00:51:35,145 that information, if you'd be 1517 00:51:36,595 --> 00:51:36,845 willing to share that maybe um. 1518 00:51:40,495 --> 00:51:40,745 I don't wanna burden someone 1519 00:51:42,428 --> 00:51:42,678 with too much to do in terms of 1520 00:51:44,361 --> 00:51:44,611 before our next meeting, but you 1521 00:51:46,361 --> 00:51:46,611 know, let's say within 2 1522 00:51:46,828 --> 00:51:47,078 meetings out. 1523 00:51:50,328 --> 00:51:50,578 Um, give everyone a month. 1524 00:51:52,495 --> 00:51:52,745 So I think if that's pretty 1525 00:51:54,495 --> 00:51:54,745 reasonable, it would be very 1526 00:51:55,095 --> 00:51:55,345 helpful, 1527 00:52:00,228 --> 00:52:00,478 Oh, sorry. Yeah, just a quick 1528 00:52:00,861 --> 00:52:01,111 question, were these, um, 1529 00:52:04,328 --> 00:52:04,578 exemptions created a long time 1530 00:52:04,961 --> 00:52:05,211 ago or were they in response to 1531 00:52:05,628 --> 00:52:05,878 the reevaluation? 1532 00:52:08,495 --> 00:52:08,745 These, these, I think were all 1533 00:52:10,461 --> 00:52:10,711 created a long time ago. I've 1534 00:52:12,295 --> 00:52:12,545 done these for you um. 1535 00:52:18,228 --> 00:52:18,478 There were some, um, some moves 1536 00:52:18,861 --> 00:52:19,111 modify some of them. 1537 00:52:22,261 --> 00:52:22,511 After, so David, do you wanna, 1538 00:52:24,361 --> 00:52:24,611 yeah, just to add, sir, um, New 1539 00:52:26,228 --> 00:52:26,478 Castle County's numbers were 1540 00:52:26,861 --> 00:52:27,111 updated after the reassessment 1541 00:52:30,295 --> 00:52:30,545 with the income and the assessed 1542 00:52:32,461 --> 00:52:32,711 value exemptions, but we don't 1543 00:52:33,128 --> 00:52:33,378 have authority on the school 1544 00:52:33,728 --> 00:52:33,978 side, so. 1545 00:52:34,261 --> 00:52:34,511 Yes. 1546 00:52:36,361 --> 00:52:36,611 Thank you. 1547 00:52:40,428 --> 00:52:40,678 So 1548 00:52:42,428 --> 00:52:42,678 I've had some. 1549 00:52:46,328 --> 00:52:46,578 Pre-prescribed evaluation 1550 00:52:46,895 --> 00:52:47,145 criteria. 1551 00:52:48,461 --> 00:52:48,711 Which is probably incomplete. 1552 00:52:52,328 --> 00:52:52,578 But um I think we need to, 1553 00:52:54,428 --> 00:52:54,678 whatever we're looking at, we 1554 00:52:56,295 --> 00:52:56,545 need to look at taxpayer equity 1555 00:52:56,995 --> 00:52:57,245 and fairness. 1556 00:52:58,495 --> 00:52:58,745 Ability to pay. 1557 00:53:02,195 --> 00:53:02,445 And we 1558 00:53:04,295 --> 00:53:04,545 that should be a consideration 1559 00:53:06,295 --> 00:53:06,545 and also predictability of 1560 00:53:08,261 --> 00:53:08,511 property tax bills and amounts. 1561 00:53:12,228 --> 00:53:12,478 The impacts on housing 1562 00:53:12,695 --> 00:53:12,945 affordability. 1563 00:53:14,461 --> 00:53:14,711 Economic impacts on 1564 00:53:16,461 --> 00:53:16,711 non-residential property owners. 1565 00:53:20,228 --> 00:53:20,478 Revenue stability for the 1566 00:53:22,295 --> 00:53:22,545 counties, municipalities, and 1567 00:53:22,861 --> 00:53:23,111 school districts. 1568 00:53:26,228 --> 00:53:26,478 Administrative feasibility and 1569 00:53:26,895 --> 00:53:27,145 implementation. 1570 00:53:30,228 --> 00:53:30,478 There's a number of things that 1571 00:53:32,195 --> 00:53:32,445 um I'm sure the county 1572 00:53:32,695 --> 00:53:32,945 representatives will say there's 1573 00:53:34,461 --> 00:53:34,711 all sorts of ideas that people 1574 00:53:36,495 --> 00:53:36,745 can come up with, but actually 1575 00:53:38,595 --> 00:53:38,845 putting them into practice 1576 00:53:40,328 --> 00:53:40,578 sometimes it can be very, very 1577 00:53:40,995 --> 00:53:41,245 difficult. 1578 00:53:41,295 --> 00:53:41,545 So, 1579 00:53:44,361 --> 00:53:44,611 Are there additional criteria 1580 00:53:46,495 --> 00:53:46,745 that members believe we should 1581 00:53:50,195 --> 00:53:50,445 consider uh as we evaluate 1582 00:53:50,728 --> 00:53:50,978 potential reforms. 1583 00:53:54,328 --> 00:53:54,578 They can pop up at later 1584 00:53:54,795 --> 00:53:55,045 meetings as well. 1585 00:53:56,228 --> 00:53:56,478 So. 1586 00:53:58,495 --> 00:53:58,745 So 1587 00:54:02,461 --> 00:54:02,711 I question here, um, just a 1588 00:54:02,995 --> 00:54:03,245 couple of questions. 1589 00:54:06,395 --> 00:54:06,645 Well, maybe first of all, and I 1590 00:54:08,228 --> 00:54:08,478 think the Department of Finance 1591 00:54:10,328 --> 00:54:10,578 and, and you know the Office of 1592 00:54:12,228 --> 00:54:12,478 Management and Budget, could, 1593 00:54:14,295 --> 00:54:14,545 can you get the, the statistics 1594 00:54:14,995 --> 00:54:15,245 on um. 1595 00:54:16,695 --> 00:54:16,945 The dollar value and the number 1596 00:54:18,528 --> 00:54:18,778 of people that for the seed 1597 00:54:19,128 --> 00:54:19,378 property taxes. 1598 00:54:24,295 --> 00:54:24,545 74,100 homes. 1599 00:54:26,561 --> 00:54:26,811 $31.6 million. 1600 00:54:30,428 --> 00:54:30,678 Not, because not everybody gets 1601 00:54:31,061 --> 00:54:31,311 the full $500. 1602 00:54:34,195 --> 00:54:34,445 Sometimes it's prorated or 1603 00:54:34,795 --> 00:54:35,045 sometimes it's less than. That's 1604 00:54:36,428 --> 00:54:36,678 the most recent numbers across 1605 00:54:38,395 --> 00:54:38,645 the state, but, uh, as 1606 00:54:38,928 --> 00:54:39,178 as you mentioned. 1607 00:54:42,295 --> 00:54:42,545 Chair, it's a, it's not income. 1608 00:54:44,195 --> 00:54:44,445 testing 1609 00:54:44,445 --> 00:54:44,695 because 1610 00:54:44,695 --> 00:54:44,945 testing 1611 00:54:46,395 --> 00:54:46,645 because there's many Michael 1612 00:54:48,328 --> 00:54:48,578 Smiths, and sometimes, you know, 1613 00:54:50,328 --> 00:54:50,578 we have the tax department and 1614 00:54:52,228 --> 00:54:52,478 then we have the county records, 1615 00:54:52,928 --> 00:54:53,178 so. 1616 00:54:53,178 --> 00:54:53,428 Um, 1617 00:54:54,461 --> 00:54:54,711 So that's something, you know, 1618 00:54:56,428 --> 00:54:56,678 obviously the committee could 1619 00:54:57,061 --> 00:54:57,311 So that's something, you know, 1620 00:54:57,795 --> 00:54:58,045 obviously the committee can 1621 00:54:58,428 --> 00:54:58,678 consider obviously this whether 1622 00:54:59,128 --> 00:54:59,378 or not it's something that can 1623 00:55:02,195 --> 00:55:02,445 be if it could be income or 1624 00:55:02,728 --> 00:55:02,978 not it's something that can be 1625 00:55:03,428 --> 00:55:03,678 if it could be income revenues 1626 00:55:04,128 --> 00:55:04,378 tested, you know, uh, there's 1627 00:55:04,761 --> 00:55:05,011 always been talk about trying to 1628 00:55:06,228 --> 00:55:06,478 increase it, and I think that 1629 00:55:06,861 --> 00:55:07,111 probably at lower income levels, 1630 00:55:07,561 --> 00:55:07,811 um. 1631 00:55:10,228 --> 00:55:10,478 It would be nice to have maybe a 1632 00:55:10,861 --> 00:55:11,111 little more, but the upper 1633 00:55:12,428 --> 00:55:12,678 levels maybe there's not so much 1634 00:55:14,195 --> 00:55:14,445 you're in need of it that 1635 00:55:14,728 --> 00:55:14,978 particular flat fee. 1636 00:55:16,228 --> 00:55:16,478 I, 1637 00:55:18,295 --> 00:55:18,545 yes, can you repeat that number 1638 00:55:18,995 --> 00:55:19,245 again? I'm sorry. It's about 1639 00:55:22,195 --> 00:55:22,445 74,100 homes in all three 1640 00:55:24,295 --> 00:55:24,545 counties, and uh it was just 1641 00:55:26,361 --> 00:55:26,611 under 32, 31.6 million, last 1642 00:55:26,928 --> 00:55:27,178 numbers. 1643 00:55:27,178 --> 00:55:27,428 Thank you. 1644 00:55:32,495 --> 00:55:32,745 It can be prorated, you know, it 1645 00:55:34,461 --> 00:55:34,711 can be prorated because I mean 1646 00:55:36,428 --> 00:55:36,678 it's 50%. It could be capped by 1647 00:55:38,228 --> 00:55:38,478 the bill or it could be 4 1648 00:55:40,195 --> 00:55:40,445 siblings own the property and 1649 00:55:40,795 --> 00:55:41,045 only one qualifies, so you get 1650 00:55:42,428 --> 00:55:42,678 $125 versus 500 pesa each. 1651 00:55:44,395 --> 00:55:44,645 You know, that's, that's where I 1652 00:55:46,295 --> 00:55:46,545 get different amounts and not 1653 00:55:46,928 --> 00:55:47,178 get $500 depending on the 1654 00:55:47,495 --> 00:55:47,745 situation. 1655 00:55:48,295 --> 00:55:48,545 That's 1656 00:55:50,495 --> 00:55:50,745 Kind of hard to hear you down 1657 00:55:51,061 --> 00:55:51,311 here. 1658 00:55:54,461 --> 00:55:54,711 OK, I was just talking to the, 1659 00:55:56,361 --> 00:55:56,611 the numbers and then also the 1660 00:55:58,228 --> 00:55:58,478 qualifications. No, not 1661 00:55:58,728 --> 00:55:58,978 everybody receives a 4 or $500. 1662 00:56:00,461 --> 00:56:00,711 Depending on circumstances of 1663 00:56:04,295 --> 00:56:04,545 the 50%, $500 up to 50% of the 1664 00:56:04,928 --> 00:56:05,178 bill, depending on what their 1665 00:56:05,595 --> 00:56:05,845 bill is. 1666 00:56:08,395 --> 00:56:08,645 But also, um, unrelated parties 1667 00:56:10,195 --> 00:56:10,445 could own property, like 4 1668 00:56:10,795 --> 00:56:11,045 siblings can own property and 1 1669 00:56:12,228 --> 00:56:12,478 But also, um, unrelated parties 1670 00:56:12,928 --> 00:56:13,178 could own property like 4 1671 00:56:13,495 --> 00:56:13,745 siblings can own a property and 1672 00:56:14,228 --> 00:56:14,478 1 could be all living there, one 1673 00:56:14,928 --> 00:56:15,178 could be qualified, so they get 1674 00:56:16,228 --> 00:56:16,478 one quarter of the $500 not the 1675 00:56:16,928 --> 00:56:17,178 full $500 so. 1676 00:56:18,228 --> 00:56:18,478 There's a little bit of, you 1677 00:56:18,828 --> 00:56:19,078 know. 1678 00:56:20,395 --> 00:56:20,645 Coordination there 1679 00:56:20,795 --> 00:56:21,045 only call 1680 00:56:22,195 --> 00:56:22,445 Coordination there. 1681 00:56:22,628 --> 00:56:22,878 The only call, 1682 00:56:24,195 --> 00:56:24,445 Mr. Chair, it would be helpful 1683 00:56:24,828 --> 00:56:25,078 too for the, the counties, um, 1684 00:56:26,261 --> 00:56:26,511 there's the qualifications, but 1685 00:56:28,395 --> 00:56:28,645 also income definition. I think 1686 00:56:30,195 --> 00:56:30,445 it's important too. I know, I 1687 00:56:32,195 --> 00:56:32,445 know, I think Newcastle doesn't 1688 00:56:32,928 --> 00:56:33,178 probably include Social Security 1689 00:56:34,361 --> 00:56:34,611 as well. I'm not sure if they 1690 00:56:36,228 --> 00:56:36,478 include pensioner solution, 1691 00:56:36,761 --> 00:56:37,011 things like that would be 1692 00:56:38,228 --> 00:56:38,478 helpful like there's, you know, 1693 00:56:38,895 --> 00:56:39,145 is there already 1694 00:56:40,495 --> 00:56:40,745 um a reduction in income. 1695 00:56:44,195 --> 00:56:44,445 So sometimes the numbers seem 1696 00:56:44,828 --> 00:56:45,078 lower than they should be 1697 00:56:45,428 --> 00:56:45,678 because 1698 00:56:46,528 --> 00:56:46,778 there's already amounts being 1699 00:56:50,228 --> 00:56:50,478 taken off of federal AGI and 1700 00:56:52,195 --> 00:56:52,445 reduced down the Delaware AGI 1701 00:56:54,195 --> 00:56:54,445 that would look, look slow but 1702 00:56:54,861 --> 00:56:55,111 in reality it's. 1703 00:56:55,295 --> 00:56:55,545 I hired him. 1704 00:56:56,528 --> 00:56:56,778 Yeah, is that? 1705 00:57:00,495 --> 00:57:00,745 Would that be something to add 1706 00:57:02,361 --> 00:57:02,611 to the homework for the 1707 00:57:04,195 --> 00:57:04,445 representatives from the 1708 00:57:04,728 --> 00:57:04,978 counties. Newcastle County can 1709 00:57:05,428 --> 00:57:05,678 Would that be something to add 1710 00:57:06,095 --> 00:57:06,345 to the homework for the 1711 00:57:06,661 --> 00:57:06,911 representatives from the 1712 00:57:07,161 --> 00:57:07,411 counties. New Castle County can 1713 00:57:07,861 --> 00:57:08,111 add income qualifications, 1714 00:57:08,428 --> 00:57:08,678 thresholds. That's not a 1715 00:57:08,995 --> 00:57:09,245 problem. 1716 00:57:09,245 --> 00:57:09,495 Yeah 1717 00:57:12,328 --> 00:57:12,578 For qualifications of 1718 00:57:12,795 --> 00:57:13,045 exemptions. 1719 00:57:16,328 --> 00:57:16,578 So can provide the information. 1720 00:57:16,995 --> 00:57:17,245 OK, thank you. 1721 00:57:18,228 --> 00:57:18,478 Very good. 1722 00:57:22,195 --> 00:57:22,445 OK, well, that is, um. 1723 00:57:24,295 --> 00:57:24,545 I had another follow up 1724 00:57:24,828 --> 00:57:25,078 question, so, 1725 00:57:28,361 --> 00:57:28,611 um, make sure the process is 1726 00:57:30,395 --> 00:57:30,645 still the same, at least back 1727 00:57:32,495 --> 00:57:32,745 when, when I was there for the 1728 00:57:34,528 --> 00:57:34,778 statewide relief programs, 1729 00:57:38,461 --> 00:57:38,711 senior school tax credit. That 1730 00:57:40,295 --> 00:57:40,545 application is made to the 1731 00:57:42,228 --> 00:57:42,478 counties by the resident, 1732 00:57:44,228 --> 00:57:44,478 correct? Still, correct. OK, 1733 00:57:44,895 --> 00:57:45,145 yes, yeah, um. 1734 00:57:48,228 --> 00:57:48,478 But once again, that is only for 1735 00:57:50,228 --> 00:57:50,478 school taxes on, on the state 1736 00:57:50,828 --> 00:57:51,078 side. 1737 00:57:52,561 --> 00:57:52,811 Um, and then another question is 1738 00:57:56,328 --> 00:57:56,578 on your local programs with the 1739 00:57:56,961 --> 00:57:57,211 income-based uh 1740 00:58:00,428 --> 00:58:00,678 Qualification, do you have them 1741 00:58:02,428 --> 00:58:02,678 come in and submit W-2s, or is 1742 00:58:04,261 --> 00:58:04,511 there any supporting 1743 00:58:04,728 --> 00:58:04,978 documentation that you asked 1744 00:58:05,328 --> 00:58:05,578 for? 1745 00:58:06,361 --> 00:58:06,611 You know, 1746 00:58:08,395 --> 00:58:08,645 For New Castle County, correct, 1747 00:58:09,061 --> 00:58:09,311 there are, um. 1748 00:58:12,528 --> 00:58:12,778 Uh, backup requirements for the 1749 00:58:13,261 --> 00:58:13,511 for the applications. 1750 00:58:14,461 --> 00:58:14,711 I believe it's, I believe it's a 1751 00:58:16,328 --> 00:58:16,578 tax return. I have to go back 1752 00:58:18,295 --> 00:58:18,545 and check for sure, but I, there 1753 00:58:20,228 --> 00:58:20,478 is verification steps they have, 1754 00:58:22,295 --> 00:58:22,545 they have to go through to get 1755 00:58:22,995 --> 00:58:23,245 qualified. 1756 00:58:24,628 --> 00:58:24,878 We require the tax return and 1757 00:58:26,461 --> 00:58:26,711 also they have to apply every 1758 00:58:27,028 --> 00:58:27,278 year. 1759 00:58:30,228 --> 00:58:30,478 Have to apply every year for 1760 00:58:30,828 --> 00:58:31,078 that OK. 1761 00:58:32,495 --> 00:58:32,745 And we require documentation as 1762 00:58:34,361 --> 00:58:34,611 well. Do they apply every year 1763 00:58:36,295 --> 00:58:36,545 too. They don't, yeah, we don't 1764 00:58:36,928 --> 00:58:37,178 apply every year, so, but we'll 1765 00:58:38,461 --> 00:58:38,711 do audits going back. 1766 00:58:40,361 --> 00:58:40,611 Thank you. 1767 00:58:44,295 --> 00:58:44,545 Well, I'm going to, I'm going to 1768 00:58:46,195 --> 00:58:46,445 put my own little thing up 1769 00:58:46,795 --> 00:58:47,045 because one of the things that 1770 00:58:47,461 --> 00:58:47,711 um 1771 00:58:52,228 --> 00:58:52,478 Another thing that I think to 1772 00:58:54,328 --> 00:58:54,578 think about and it came up as, 1773 00:58:55,028 --> 00:58:55,278 as, um you were talking about. 1774 00:58:58,195 --> 00:58:58,445 Having to refile and things like 1775 00:59:00,361 --> 00:59:00,611 that. Some people are not quite 1776 00:59:04,161 --> 00:59:04,411 as with it as other people. Uh, 1777 00:59:06,261 --> 00:59:06,511 so what is the burden to 1778 00:59:06,828 --> 00:59:07,078 actually 1779 00:59:08,528 --> 00:59:08,778 I think, yeah, but, but. 1780 00:59:12,461 --> 00:59:12,711 Thank you for the comment. 1781 00:59:14,561 --> 00:59:14,811 Secretary Clifton, um, 1782 00:59:20,295 --> 00:59:20,545 You know, what is, what is the 1783 00:59:22,328 --> 00:59:22,578 Outreach to people. 1784 00:59:24,395 --> 00:59:24,645 To help them qualify. 1785 00:59:26,528 --> 00:59:26,778 You know, in terms of. 1786 00:59:28,295 --> 00:59:28,545 Um, 1787 00:59:30,295 --> 00:59:30,545 You know, people who may. 1788 00:59:32,595 --> 00:59:32,845 Be sort of hanging on at home or 1789 00:59:33,295 --> 00:59:33,545 whatever, but not. 1790 00:59:38,295 --> 00:59:38,545 Who may need help, because not 1791 00:59:40,228 --> 00:59:40,478 everyone is, is at the same 1792 00:59:40,761 --> 00:59:41,011 level of ability to request. 1793 00:59:44,528 --> 00:59:44,778 Uh, to file forms and apply for 1794 00:59:46,428 --> 00:59:46,678 things and sometimes what we see 1795 00:59:48,428 --> 00:59:48,678 is there's a lot more people who 1796 00:59:50,428 --> 00:59:50,678 would be eligible for a program 1797 00:59:52,428 --> 00:59:52,678 that are actually receiving it 1798 00:59:54,595 --> 00:59:54,845 and how, how, how do we go about 1799 00:59:56,428 --> 00:59:56,678 lessening that burden for 1800 00:59:56,928 --> 00:59:57,178 people. I'm sorry. 1801 00:59:58,361 --> 00:59:58,611 We 1802 01:00:00,528 --> 01:00:00,778 For the people that already have 1803 01:00:02,295 --> 01:00:02,545 it, because they have to do it 1804 01:00:04,295 --> 01:00:04,545 every year. We send them an 1805 01:00:06,228 --> 01:00:06,478 application every year. So if 1806 01:00:06,895 --> 01:00:07,145 you've already been established, 1807 01:00:08,328 --> 01:00:08,578 you get it every year sent to 1808 01:00:08,895 --> 01:00:09,145 your home. 1809 01:00:10,395 --> 01:00:10,645 And then we just advertise in 1810 01:00:12,295 --> 01:00:12,545 the paper, same way you do for 1811 01:00:14,228 --> 01:00:14,478 everything in the papers, on 1812 01:00:16,228 --> 01:00:16,478 your website, the outreach like 1813 01:00:16,928 --> 01:00:17,178 that, senior centers. 1814 01:00:18,561 --> 01:00:18,811 For our outreach areas. 1815 01:00:24,228 --> 01:00:24,478 Do, is there any way to find out 1816 01:00:24,895 --> 01:00:25,145 what the 1817 01:00:26,395 --> 01:00:26,645 Actual participation is. 1818 01:00:28,561 --> 01:00:28,811 And compare that to the number 1819 01:00:29,261 --> 01:00:29,511 of people who 1820 01:00:34,195 --> 01:00:34,445 Would be, should are eligible 1821 01:00:34,861 --> 01:00:35,111 versus the number of people that 1822 01:00:35,528 --> 01:00:35,778 apply. 1823 01:00:36,495 --> 01:00:36,745 We have no idea about income. 1824 01:00:38,461 --> 01:00:38,711 People's income, we don't track 1825 01:00:40,361 --> 01:00:40,611 that you'd have nobody tracks 1826 01:00:41,061 --> 01:00:41,311 that we have. 1827 01:00:46,195 --> 01:00:46,445 And for the state senior tax 1828 01:00:46,795 --> 01:00:47,045 credit, is that something where. 1829 01:00:48,495 --> 01:00:48,745 It would be possible to 1830 01:00:48,995 --> 01:00:49,245 determine sort of. 1831 01:00:50,395 --> 01:00:50,645 How many people 1832 01:00:54,428 --> 01:00:54,678 Appear to be eligible versus how 1833 01:00:56,295 --> 01:00:56,545 many people are actually taking 1834 01:00:56,961 --> 01:00:57,211 advantage of the program. 1835 01:01:00,361 --> 01:01:00,611 Uh, 1836 01:01:00,611 --> 01:01:00,861 same challenge when it comes to, 1837 01:01:02,428 --> 01:01:02,678 I can tell you that um this is. 1838 01:01:06,295 --> 01:01:06,545 New information. It was a little 1839 01:01:08,295 --> 01:01:08,545 project that I kind of tried 1840 01:01:08,861 --> 01:01:09,111 because, you know, if I, I, as 1841 01:01:09,561 --> 01:01:09,811 Michael Smith. 1842 01:01:12,395 --> 01:01:12,645 My social number and the parcel 1843 01:01:13,095 --> 01:01:13,345 I live in. 1844 01:01:16,261 --> 01:01:16,511 On my, uh including that that 1845 01:01:16,928 --> 01:01:17,178 address on my tax return and 1846 01:01:17,495 --> 01:01:17,745 applying for. 1847 01:01:18,595 --> 01:01:18,845 A discount, 1848 01:01:20,461 --> 01:01:20,711 a senior discount, 1849 01:01:22,461 --> 01:01:22,711 um, then it would linked to that 1850 01:01:26,228 --> 01:01:26,478 address, so to the extent uh we 1851 01:01:26,861 --> 01:01:27,111 did a project to the extent we 1852 01:01:28,461 --> 01:01:28,711 could find the name that matched 1853 01:01:30,228 --> 01:01:30,478 or at least one person filing 1854 01:01:32,228 --> 01:01:32,478 that and then uh a dress match 1855 01:01:34,428 --> 01:01:34,678 of the all the individuals that 1856 01:01:36,495 --> 01:01:36,745 received the credit, 1/3 were a 1857 01:01:38,595 --> 01:01:38,845 match. So now there's a number 1858 01:01:40,295 --> 01:01:40,545 that don't have to file, right, 1859 01:01:42,195 --> 01:01:42,445 Because if you only have Social 1860 01:01:42,861 --> 01:01:43,111 Security available income, you 1861 01:01:44,261 --> 01:01:44,511 don't have to file a tax return, 1862 01:01:46,461 --> 01:01:46,711 but we're able to with any kind 1863 01:01:47,161 --> 01:01:47,411 of certainty, identify a. 1864 01:01:52,195 --> 01:01:52,445 Approximately 300 or 33% of the 1865 01:01:52,895 --> 01:01:53,145 individuals receiving, but 1866 01:01:54,195 --> 01:01:54,445 that's the only thing, but 1867 01:01:56,228 --> 01:01:56,478 that's just going by hoping that 1868 01:01:58,428 --> 01:01:58,678 um the address, you know, which 1869 01:02:00,228 --> 01:02:00,478 it's, it's, it's a name and 1870 01:02:00,761 --> 01:02:01,011 address match against our 1871 01:02:02,395 --> 01:02:02,645 records versus an actual 1872 01:02:06,228 --> 01:02:06,478 taxpayer ID and that's kind of 1873 01:02:06,895 --> 01:02:07,145 as far as it went, so if you're 1874 01:02:08,361 --> 01:02:08,611 using a different address, a 1875 01:02:08,928 --> 01:02:09,178 care of address, you know, you 1876 01:02:10,228 --> 01:02:10,478 can use different addresses, 1877 01:02:10,861 --> 01:02:11,111 care of address, whatever the 1878 01:02:12,428 --> 01:02:12,678 case may be, uh, so it's not 1879 01:02:14,361 --> 01:02:14,611 really, I what I hope for a 1880 01:02:16,228 --> 01:02:16,478 little bit better match than 1881 01:02:16,895 --> 01:02:17,145 that, uh, and that would 1882 01:02:17,395 --> 01:02:17,645 clearly, you know, indicate. 1883 01:02:20,295 --> 01:02:20,545 OK, well this is a parcel with 1884 01:02:20,961 --> 01:02:21,211 an address matching individuals 1885 01:02:22,528 --> 01:02:22,778 receiving it, we get, we now 1886 01:02:24,328 --> 01:02:24,578 have their income, but that's 1887 01:02:26,395 --> 01:02:26,645 the only link we can, but our 1888 01:02:28,461 --> 01:02:28,711 success rate is about 1/3. OK, 1889 01:02:30,595 --> 01:02:30,845 So I guess what the data and 1890 01:02:32,495 --> 01:02:32,745 ability to access that just 1891 01:02:34,295 --> 01:02:34,545 really doesn't exist right now 1892 01:02:36,528 --> 01:02:36,778 to evaluate these programs in 1893 01:02:38,328 --> 01:02:38,578 terms of their reach to. 1894 01:02:40,528 --> 01:02:40,778 Total potentially eligible 1895 01:02:42,428 --> 01:02:42,678 individuals. They don't track 1896 01:02:44,428 --> 01:02:44,678 birth dates or income. 1897 01:02:48,561 --> 01:02:48,811 OK, that was just, I just, I'm 1898 01:02:50,328 --> 01:02:50,578 always looking out for the 1899 01:02:50,895 --> 01:02:51,145 people who are, you know. 1900 01:02:54,161 --> 01:02:54,411 Living at home, but maybe 1901 01:02:56,628 --> 01:02:56,878 marginally so and maybe uh you 1902 01:02:58,561 --> 01:02:58,811 know, in difficulty in terms of 1903 01:03:02,361 --> 01:03:02,611 filing forms and getting things 1904 01:03:04,361 --> 01:03:04,611 and, you know, jumping through 1905 01:03:06,361 --> 01:03:06,611 the, so I guess I'm looking for 1906 01:03:08,461 --> 01:03:08,711 hoop minimization in terms of 1907 01:03:09,128 --> 01:03:09,378 what people would need to jump 1908 01:03:12,328 --> 01:03:12,578 through to qualify as being one 1909 01:03:12,995 --> 01:03:13,245 of the criteria to look at. 1910 01:03:16,461 --> 01:03:16,711 Is that? 1911 01:03:20,495 --> 01:03:20,745 Yes, just 11 comment, um. 1912 01:03:24,428 --> 01:03:24,678 Depending on websites, 1913 01:03:26,428 --> 01:03:26,678 newspapers, things like that, 1914 01:03:28,228 --> 01:03:28,478 and I know that that is how 1915 01:03:30,228 --> 01:03:30,478 municipalities do things, um, 1916 01:03:30,895 --> 01:03:31,145 cause I live in one and that's 1917 01:03:34,228 --> 01:03:34,478 how they do it. And um for 1918 01:03:36,428 --> 01:03:36,678 regular humans or older humans, 1919 01:03:38,595 --> 01:03:38,845 that is really difficult in 1920 01:03:42,228 --> 01:03:42,478 terms of a, of a way to have 1921 01:03:44,328 --> 01:03:44,578 reliable communication. This 1922 01:03:46,195 --> 01:03:46,445 seems to me this is a, a change 1923 01:03:46,895 --> 01:03:47,145 management problem, it's a 1924 01:03:48,361 --> 01:03:48,611 societal change management 1925 01:03:52,228 --> 01:03:52,478 problem. And so if, if we want 1926 01:03:52,895 --> 01:03:53,145 this to work for people who 1927 01:03:54,328 --> 01:03:54,578 really need it. I think we need 1928 01:03:56,228 --> 01:03:56,478 to think about it a little bit 1929 01:03:58,195 --> 01:03:58,445 differently. So yes, we would do 1930 01:04:00,228 --> 01:04:00,478 all the normal stuff. You know, 1931 01:04:00,895 --> 01:04:01,145 there's nothing more off-putting 1932 01:04:04,228 --> 01:04:04,478 to a person who needs help than 1933 01:04:04,895 --> 01:04:05,145 to be told, didn't you look at 1934 01:04:06,361 --> 01:04:06,611 the website, that, that's 1935 01:04:08,328 --> 01:04:08,578 actually, you know, I, I defy 1936 01:04:08,928 --> 01:04:09,178 anybody to find anything on 1937 01:04:10,395 --> 01:04:10,645 Newcastle City's website, 1938 01:04:12,561 --> 01:04:12,811 including myself, and I've been 1939 01:04:14,495 --> 01:04:14,745 on two commissions. So, um, 1940 01:04:18,295 --> 01:04:18,545 maybe as part of this activity, 1941 01:04:20,195 --> 01:04:20,445 we think about other ways to 1942 01:04:22,228 --> 01:04:22,478 communicate. Senior centers is 1943 01:04:22,928 --> 01:04:23,178 very good, libraries is a 1944 01:04:26,395 --> 01:04:26,645 Really good one. Churches is a 1945 01:04:27,061 --> 01:04:27,311 really good one, 1946 01:04:30,228 --> 01:04:30,478 social groups, I don't know. I 1947 01:04:30,895 --> 01:04:31,145 mean, I did change management 1948 01:04:32,461 --> 01:04:32,711 professionally, uh, as a 1949 01:04:34,361 --> 01:04:34,611 management consultant so I could 1950 01:04:35,061 --> 01:04:35,311 help you come up with some 1951 01:04:35,661 --> 01:04:35,911 thoughts, but 1952 01:04:38,195 --> 01:04:38,445 Talking to real people, 1953 01:04:40,195 --> 01:04:40,445 especially people in trouble who 1954 01:04:42,228 --> 01:04:42,478 need help is a much bigger 1955 01:04:42,828 --> 01:04:43,078 problem than what 1956 01:04:44,561 --> 01:04:44,811 What I think has been done in 1957 01:04:46,428 --> 01:04:46,678 the past, so maybe something we 1958 01:04:47,128 --> 01:04:47,378 could think about. 1959 01:04:52,395 --> 01:04:52,645 Thank you. 1960 01:04:52,661 --> 01:04:52,911 OK. 1961 01:04:54,528 --> 01:04:54,778 Ever um. 1962 01:04:58,395 --> 01:04:58,645 I heard that Delaware has a very 1963 01:05:02,195 --> 01:05:02,445 high foreclosure rate, uh, is 1964 01:05:02,861 --> 01:05:03,111 it, I don't know if this is true 1965 01:05:06,328 --> 01:05:06,578 or not and uh I guess part of 1966 01:05:06,995 --> 01:05:07,245 what we're trying to 1967 01:05:10,328 --> 01:05:10,578 determine is how we can 1968 01:05:12,395 --> 01:05:12,645 Make sure that people can stay 1969 01:05:14,428 --> 01:05:14,678 in their homes, especially 1970 01:05:18,228 --> 01:05:18,478 uh, those who have contributed 1971 01:05:18,828 --> 01:05:19,078 to society for a long time, the 1972 01:05:22,395 --> 01:05:22,645 seniors, uh, especially like 1973 01:05:26,228 --> 01:05:26,478 when a, a spouse dies and then 1974 01:05:26,861 --> 01:05:27,111 the amount of income that's 1975 01:05:28,495 --> 01:05:28,745 coming in, a limited amount of 1976 01:05:30,561 --> 01:05:30,811 income is reduced, how do we 1977 01:05:32,461 --> 01:05:32,711 make sure that there's, uh, 1978 01:05:34,395 --> 01:05:34,645 those people can stay in their 1979 01:05:36,628 --> 01:05:36,878 homes, so, uh, I, I don't know 1980 01:05:40,361 --> 01:05:40,611 that if there's any way that uh 1981 01:05:40,995 --> 01:05:41,245 the foreclosure rate fits. 1982 01:05:42,495 --> 01:05:42,745 Into what we're discussing or 1983 01:05:43,128 --> 01:05:43,378 not, but uh. 1984 01:05:44,528 --> 01:05:44,778 Just thought I'd bring it up. 1985 01:05:48,328 --> 01:05:48,578 I think that's 1986 01:05:52,395 --> 01:05:52,645 A very good point, and I don't 1987 01:05:54,328 --> 01:05:54,578 have any idea. 1988 01:05:56,195 --> 01:05:56,445 I actually don't know whether 1989 01:05:58,195 --> 01:05:58,445 our foreclosure, I've seen 1990 01:05:58,828 --> 01:05:59,078 something in, you know, a 1991 01:06:00,328 --> 01:06:00,578 headline on something about 1992 01:06:02,228 --> 01:06:02,478 foreclosure rates, but I don't 1993 01:06:04,561 --> 01:06:04,811 know that so Secretary Heckles, 1994 01:06:06,261 --> 01:06:06,511 A very good point, and I don't 1995 01:06:06,961 --> 01:06:07,211 have any idea. 1996 01:06:07,328 --> 01:06:07,578 I actually don't know whether 1997 01:06:07,928 --> 01:06:08,178 our foreclosure, I've seen 1998 01:06:08,495 --> 01:06:08,745 something in, you know, a 1999 01:06:09,095 --> 01:06:09,345 headline on something about 2000 01:06:09,661 --> 01:06:09,911 foreclosure rates, but I don't 2001 01:06:10,361 --> 01:06:10,611 know that so Secretary Heckel, 2002 01:06:11,028 --> 01:06:11,278 A very good point, and I don't 2003 01:06:11,728 --> 01:06:11,978 have any idea. 2004 01:06:12,095 --> 01:06:12,345 I actually don't know whether 2005 01:06:12,661 --> 01:06:12,911 our foreclosure, I've seen 2006 01:06:13,261 --> 01:06:13,511 something in, you know, a 2007 01:06:13,861 --> 01:06:14,111 headline on something about 2008 01:06:14,428 --> 01:06:14,678 foreclosure rates, but I don't 2009 01:06:15,128 --> 01:06:15,378 know that so Secretary Heckles, 2010 01:06:15,795 --> 01:06:16,045 who's housing, would know those 2011 01:06:16,495 --> 01:06:16,745 things. I might know. Um, it's 2012 01:06:17,161 --> 01:06:17,411 actually not, um, historically, 2013 01:06:17,861 --> 01:06:18,111 at least, uh, for context, when 2014 01:06:18,561 --> 01:06:18,811 we were in the Great Depression, 2015 01:06:19,261 --> 01:06:19,511 we were a Great Depression, 2016 01:06:19,828 --> 01:06:20,078 Great Recession, financial 2017 01:06:20,428 --> 01:06:20,678 crisis. Uh, we were looking at 7 2018 01:06:21,161 --> 01:06:21,411 or 8000 foreclosures a year. 2019 01:06:22,261 --> 01:06:22,511 year. Uh, at that point in time, 2020 01:06:24,195 --> 01:06:24,445 we were trying to get back to 2021 01:06:26,328 --> 01:06:26,578 our historical average, um, at 2022 01:06:28,395 --> 01:06:28,645 about 2000, um, for the past 2023 01:06:30,228 --> 01:06:30,478 several years, and there's been 2024 01:06:30,928 --> 01:06:31,178 a lot of good products in the 2025 01:06:34,228 --> 01:06:34,478 pandemic that have helped people 2026 01:06:34,961 --> 01:06:35,211 facing foreclosure, but for the 2027 01:06:36,528 --> 01:06:36,778 past several years we've sort of 2028 01:06:40,195 --> 01:06:40,445 creeped up to about 1300 a year, 2029 01:06:40,861 --> 01:06:41,111 which is below sort of what we 2030 01:06:44,228 --> 01:06:44,478 would consider a natural rate of 2031 01:06:44,928 --> 01:06:45,178 foreclosure. So, um, 2032 01:06:46,495 --> 01:06:46,745 I've seen those reports too. I 2033 01:06:48,528 --> 01:06:48,778 think maybe per capita, uh, 2034 01:06:50,195 --> 01:06:50,445 there's some funkiness in the 2035 01:06:50,828 --> 01:06:51,078 numbers when you look at it 2036 01:06:52,428 --> 01:06:52,678 against, you know, other states 2037 01:06:54,461 --> 01:06:54,711 and things like that, um, but 2038 01:06:56,328 --> 01:06:56,578 generally it's not, uh, we're 2039 01:06:58,261 --> 01:06:58,511 not seeing numbers that are uh 2040 01:06:58,928 --> 01:06:59,178 concerning to us on the data 2041 01:07:02,361 --> 01:07:02,611 side. Doesn't mean that any, uh, 2042 01:07:04,261 --> 01:07:04,511 you know, if you're going 2043 01:07:04,795 --> 01:07:05,045 through foreclosure, you don't 2044 01:07:06,228 --> 01:07:06,478 care how many there are in the 2045 01:07:08,361 --> 01:07:08,611 state. So it doesn't, uh, 2046 01:07:10,228 --> 01:07:10,478 diminish your, your, your point. 2047 01:07:10,961 --> 01:07:11,211 I just want to make the, the 2048 01:07:12,228 --> 01:07:12,478 clarification on the data that 2049 01:07:14,261 --> 01:07:14,511 that er we aren't seeing data 2050 01:07:14,928 --> 01:07:15,178 that shows that we have a a 2051 01:07:15,528 --> 01:07:15,778 foreclosure. 2052 01:07:16,528 --> 01:07:16,778 rate that is uh 2053 01:07:20,195 --> 01:07:20,445 Sort of big picture statewide 2054 01:07:22,295 --> 01:07:22,545 policy wise, 2055 01:07:22,661 --> 01:07:22,911 a concern for us at this point. 2056 01:07:24,695 --> 01:07:24,945 So I've got Senator Huxtable and 2057 01:07:26,461 --> 01:07:26,711 Secretary Clifton both want to 2058 01:07:28,461 --> 01:07:28,711 speak, but I, I'm gonna ask if I 2059 01:07:30,228 --> 01:07:30,478 I'm gonna ask you if I can ask 2060 01:07:30,928 --> 01:07:31,178 you a bit of a follow-up 2061 01:07:32,361 --> 01:07:32,611 question on that. Do you have 2062 01:07:36,261 --> 01:07:36,511 Any kind of detailed demographic 2063 01:07:36,961 --> 01:07:37,211 information. 2064 01:07:38,428 --> 01:07:38,678 On the individuals who do get 4 2065 01:07:39,095 --> 01:07:39,345 clubs. 2066 01:07:44,161 --> 01:07:44,411 Because that we may be able to 2067 01:07:46,395 --> 01:07:46,645 identify, as Senator Richardson 2068 01:07:48,228 --> 01:07:48,478 said, you know, are these, if 2069 01:07:48,895 --> 01:07:49,145 there's a big number of elderly 2070 01:07:50,361 --> 01:07:50,611 people that have lost their 2071 01:07:54,228 --> 01:07:54,478 spouse within the last year. We 2072 01:07:54,961 --> 01:07:55,211 don't know that's a possibility, 2073 01:07:58,195 --> 01:07:58,445 but, you know, maybe there's 2074 01:07:58,828 --> 01:07:59,078 some very targeted things we 2075 01:08:02,361 --> 01:08:02,611 need to think about and would it 2076 01:08:03,061 --> 01:08:03,311 be possible to get. 2077 01:08:04,561 --> 01:08:04,811 Demographics like that or is 2078 01:08:05,161 --> 01:08:05,411 that not collected? 2079 01:08:06,428 --> 01:08:06,678 So, 2080 01:08:12,195 --> 01:08:12,445 The data I'm citing comes to us 2081 01:08:14,161 --> 01:08:14,411 from the Department of Justice. 2082 01:08:16,261 --> 01:08:16,511 Uh, they are, uh, involved in 2083 01:08:18,261 --> 01:08:18,511 the foreclosure mediation 2084 01:08:18,795 --> 01:08:19,045 program that was created again 2085 01:08:22,195 --> 01:08:22,445 back in the financial crisis, 2086 01:08:22,828 --> 01:08:23,078 um, and. 2087 01:08:26,295 --> 01:08:26,545 I don't know that they go much 2088 01:08:28,561 --> 01:08:28,811 deeper than county. Um, they 2089 01:08:30,461 --> 01:08:30,711 certainly don't have sort of 2090 01:08:32,561 --> 01:08:32,811 familial uh information about, 2091 01:08:34,461 --> 01:08:34,711 you know, recently lost spouses 2092 01:08:35,161 --> 01:08:35,411 or anything like that. I think 2093 01:08:35,861 --> 01:08:36,111 it, it. 2094 01:08:38,361 --> 01:08:38,611 It's just what comes through the 2095 01:08:39,095 --> 01:08:39,345 court system, um. 2096 01:08:42,328 --> 01:08:42,578 With that, with that foreclosure 2097 01:08:44,228 --> 01:08:44,478 mediation program, you know, 2098 01:08:44,895 --> 01:08:45,145 the, they, they do go through a 2099 01:08:46,461 --> 01:08:46,711 mediation process with the 2100 01:08:48,461 --> 01:08:48,711 lender, um, you know, they have 2101 01:08:50,295 --> 01:08:50,545 access to housing counseling, 2102 01:08:50,995 --> 01:08:51,245 um. 2103 01:08:54,295 --> 01:08:54,545 And again, the, the number of uh 2104 01:08:56,328 --> 01:08:56,578 foreclosure avoidance programs 2105 01:08:57,028 --> 01:08:57,278 that popped up during the, the, 2106 01:09:00,295 --> 01:09:00,545 the pandemic. The the the 2107 01:09:02,195 --> 01:09:02,445 requirements at first, but then, 2108 01:09:02,861 --> 01:09:03,111 you know, I think a lot of 2109 01:09:04,295 --> 01:09:04,545 mortgage servicers have stuck 2110 01:09:06,395 --> 01:09:06,645 with uh a lot of those programs 2111 01:09:08,195 --> 01:09:08,445 to, you know, forbearances and, 2112 01:09:10,228 --> 01:09:10,478 and things like that that have 2113 01:09:10,928 --> 01:09:11,178 kept a lot of people in their 2114 01:09:12,328 --> 01:09:12,578 homes. So when we say, you know, 2115 01:09:12,995 --> 01:09:13,245 there's sort of a natural rate, 2116 01:09:13,628 --> 01:09:13,878 um. 2117 01:09:16,195 --> 01:09:16,445 You know, there, there are a lot 2118 01:09:16,928 --> 01:09:17,178 of reasons that people can go 2119 01:09:17,495 --> 01:09:17,745 through foreclosure. 2120 01:09:17,995 --> 01:09:18,245 OK 2121 01:09:20,328 --> 01:09:20,578 OK, I was just wondering because 2122 01:09:21,028 --> 01:09:21,278 again if 2123 01:09:22,561 --> 01:09:22,811 It would be useful to know that 2124 01:09:26,295 --> 01:09:26,545 if, because there may be some 2125 01:09:26,861 --> 01:09:27,111 crisis that we just don't 2126 01:09:27,461 --> 01:09:27,711 recognize. 2127 01:09:30,328 --> 01:09:30,578 That we can certainly ask the 2128 01:09:32,161 --> 01:09:32,411 Department of Justice what other 2129 01:09:32,928 --> 01:09:33,178 data they may have, um, but I 2130 01:09:34,628 --> 01:09:34,878 don't think that that kind of 2131 01:09:35,295 --> 01:09:35,545 level is gonna be there. 2132 01:09:36,428 --> 01:09:36,678 Would it be 2133 01:09:38,395 --> 01:09:38,645 Well, I can do that. We can. 2134 01:09:42,328 --> 01:09:42,578 We can think about one of the 2135 01:09:42,961 --> 01:09:43,211 recommendations the committee 2136 01:09:44,528 --> 01:09:44,778 might be to ask at the end of 2137 01:09:46,428 --> 01:09:46,678 all this is ask the Department 2138 01:09:48,461 --> 01:09:48,711 of Justice to start collecting 2139 01:09:49,095 --> 01:09:49,345 that kind of information. 2140 01:09:52,328 --> 01:09:52,578 You know, that would be, again, 2141 01:09:54,328 --> 01:09:54,578 we, not everything that we 2142 01:09:54,928 --> 01:09:55,178 recommend coming out of this 2143 01:09:58,228 --> 01:09:58,478 committee needs to be a piece of 2144 01:10:00,461 --> 01:10:00,711 legislation that can be, we, we 2145 01:10:02,328 --> 01:10:02,578 recognize the gap in the 2146 01:10:02,928 --> 01:10:03,178 information we'd like to have to 2147 01:10:04,395 --> 01:10:04,645 come up with really good 2148 01:10:06,395 --> 01:10:06,645 solutions and then trying to 2149 01:10:08,261 --> 01:10:08,511 make sure that that information 2150 01:10:08,928 --> 01:10:09,178 can get obtained. 2151 01:10:10,228 --> 01:10:10,478 So, thank you. 2152 01:10:16,195 --> 01:10:16,445 OK, sorry, Senator Huxtable. 2153 01:10:16,861 --> 01:10:17,111 That's right. So I know we've 2154 01:10:18,595 --> 01:10:18,845 we've concentrated a lot on, on 2155 01:10:22,361 --> 01:10:22,611 some of what the counties offer, 2156 01:10:24,228 --> 01:10:24,478 uh, and I was gonna point to 2157 01:10:24,795 --> 01:10:25,045 Janelle and ask. 2158 01:10:28,228 --> 01:10:28,478 Uh, Janelle, do you know if any 2159 01:10:30,228 --> 01:10:30,478 towns and other municipalities 2160 01:10:30,928 --> 01:10:31,178 may have 2161 01:10:32,495 --> 01:10:32,745 Additional programs that are 2162 01:10:33,061 --> 01:10:33,311 layered on. 2163 01:10:36,228 --> 01:10:36,478 That they are offering and you 2164 01:10:36,895 --> 01:10:37,145 don't need to answer the 2165 01:10:38,328 --> 01:10:38,578 question right now, but if you 2166 01:10:40,195 --> 01:10:40,445 could do a survey. Yeah, I'll, 2167 01:10:40,828 --> 01:10:41,078 I'll have to reach out and ask. 2168 01:10:42,495 --> 01:10:42,745 Some do, I know, and I believe, 2169 01:10:46,361 --> 01:10:46,611 and I believe most do not. 2170 01:10:48,395 --> 01:10:48,645 Secretary Clifton. 2171 01:10:52,561 --> 01:10:52,811 Uh, I see in the resolution 2172 01:10:53,161 --> 01:10:53,411 that, um, 2173 01:10:56,528 --> 01:10:56,778 One of the charges is that um. 2174 01:10:58,428 --> 01:10:58,678 This group 2175 01:11:02,195 --> 01:11:02,445 Shall review and evaluate 2176 01:11:02,695 --> 01:11:02,945 property tax relief and 2177 01:11:04,395 --> 01:11:04,645 stabilization strategies 2178 01:11:06,328 --> 01:11:06,578 utilized in other states, 2179 01:11:08,495 --> 01:11:08,745 including neighboring and peer 2180 01:11:09,195 --> 01:11:09,445 states. 2181 01:11:10,295 --> 01:11:10,545 Um, 2182 01:11:14,328 --> 01:11:14,578 So my first question on that is, 2183 01:11:16,328 --> 01:11:16,578 whose responsibility is that to, 2184 01:11:20,195 --> 01:11:20,445 to collect all that data. Is it 2185 01:11:20,828 --> 01:11:21,078 Justin's? So, 2186 01:11:22,428 --> 01:11:22,678 does that fall to staff? So 2187 01:11:24,395 --> 01:11:24,645 actually we have um. 2188 01:11:28,228 --> 01:11:28,478 There's an organization called 2189 01:11:28,895 --> 01:11:29,145 the Lincoln Institute of Land 2190 01:11:32,228 --> 01:11:32,478 Use Policy, and they are experts 2191 01:11:34,361 --> 01:11:34,611 in this field and they will be 2192 01:11:36,195 --> 01:11:36,445 giving presentations to us 2193 01:11:38,495 --> 01:11:38,745 about these different uh types 2194 01:11:42,261 --> 01:11:42,511 of programs in other states. Um, 2195 01:11:44,328 --> 01:11:44,578 they're, they're, uh, strictly 2196 01:11:46,295 --> 01:11:46,545 nonpartisan, and they, they were 2197 01:11:48,295 --> 01:11:48,545 a little bit afraid of getting 2198 01:11:48,928 --> 01:11:49,178 involved because they didn't 2199 01:11:49,495 --> 01:11:49,745 wanna. 2200 01:11:52,195 --> 01:11:52,445 You know, seem to be. 2201 01:11:56,195 --> 01:11:56,445 Putting forth any physicians. I 2202 01:11:56,828 --> 01:11:57,078 think uh though in terms of 2203 01:12:00,228 --> 01:12:00,478 factual information sharing, um, 2204 01:12:02,195 --> 01:12:02,445 they're quite willing, and I 2205 01:12:04,361 --> 01:12:04,611 think they'll be, I think, uh, I 2206 01:12:06,228 --> 01:12:06,478 think one of the representatives 2207 01:12:06,895 --> 01:12:07,145 on the meeting right now. 2208 01:12:07,428 --> 01:12:07,678 So, 2209 01:12:08,595 --> 01:12:08,845 Very good. Maybe we can ask. 2210 01:12:12,595 --> 01:12:12,845 I, I have a coup couple other 2211 01:12:13,295 --> 01:12:13,545 uh. 2212 01:12:18,295 --> 01:12:18,545 Follow-ups to that too. Um, 2213 01:12:20,495 --> 01:12:20,745 well, I, I'm, I'm aware of that, 2214 01:12:22,361 --> 01:12:22,611 uh, and I don't know what the 2215 01:12:24,461 --> 01:12:24,711 breakdown is, but, uh, some 2216 01:12:26,228 --> 01:12:26,478 states have property tax, some 2217 01:12:26,895 --> 01:12:27,145 don't. 2218 01:12:28,461 --> 01:12:28,711 Some have income tax, some 2219 01:12:32,195 --> 01:12:32,445 don't. But our charge doesn't, 2220 01:12:34,195 --> 01:12:34,445 doesn't extend to the 2221 01:12:34,661 --> 01:12:34,911 fundamental question of 2222 01:12:36,295 --> 01:12:36,545 Which 2223 01:12:40,328 --> 01:12:40,578 Which is the most equitable, uh, 2224 01:12:44,228 --> 01:12:44,478 overall structure, category, uh, 2225 01:12:44,895 --> 01:12:45,145 uh. 2226 01:12:46,395 --> 01:12:46,645 Usage, utilization, etc. 2227 01:12:50,561 --> 01:12:50,811 That that's not, we, we don't 2228 01:12:52,361 --> 01:12:52,611 extend to that, correct? No, and 2229 01:12:52,995 --> 01:12:53,245 I think um 2230 01:12:56,261 --> 01:12:56,511 And also this is the state 2231 01:12:56,828 --> 01:12:57,078 legislative and we don't have a 2232 01:12:58,295 --> 01:12:58,545 state property tax. 2233 01:13:02,261 --> 01:13:02,511 Property tax is all local. We, 2234 01:13:04,395 --> 01:13:04,645 we as the state legislator just 2235 01:13:06,261 --> 01:13:06,511 enable, have enabling 2236 01:13:08,695 --> 01:13:08,945 legislation for things. So, um, 2237 01:13:10,261 --> 01:13:10,511 yeah, yeah. 2238 01:13:12,295 --> 01:13:12,545 Trying to say what should come 2239 01:13:14,228 --> 01:13:14,478 from property tax, what should 2240 01:13:16,195 --> 01:13:16,445 the uh, the thought of the sales 2241 01:13:16,928 --> 01:13:17,178 tax, all that's beyond the scope 2242 01:13:18,395 --> 01:13:18,645 of this, 2243 01:13:20,328 --> 01:13:20,578 this meeting, this group. I have 2244 01:13:22,195 --> 01:13:22,445 a hand raised from Ron Lincoln 2245 01:13:22,895 --> 01:13:23,145 Institute. 2246 01:13:24,461 --> 01:13:24,711 Hopefully Ron can, can we get 2247 01:13:26,461 --> 01:13:26,711 Ron up on the screen and can he 2248 01:13:28,328 --> 01:13:28,578 Hi there. 2249 01:13:30,228 --> 01:13:30,478 Yeah. 2250 01:13:32,461 --> 01:13:32,711 Uh, my name is Ron Rocco, and 2251 01:13:34,361 --> 01:13:34,611 I'm with the uh Lincoln 2252 01:13:36,228 --> 01:13:36,478 Institute of Land Policy, and I, 2253 01:13:38,228 --> 01:13:38,478 I've, I've uh had some uh 2254 01:13:38,761 --> 01:13:39,011 communications with the, uh, 2255 01:13:42,228 --> 01:13:42,478 with the staff and the care uh 2256 01:13:44,195 --> 01:13:44,445 about our participation in this. 2257 01:13:44,861 --> 01:13:45,111 Uh, first of all, we're, we're 2258 01:13:48,195 --> 01:13:48,445 pleased to help out on this. Um, 2259 01:13:48,928 --> 01:13:49,178 in answer to the, uh, 2260 01:13:50,561 --> 01:13:50,811 gentleman's question, yeah, uh, 2261 01:13:52,595 --> 01:13:52,845 our, our whole, um, point in 2262 01:13:54,361 --> 01:13:54,611 this, first of all, just a 2263 01:13:54,895 --> 01:13:55,145 little bit about the Lincoln 2264 01:13:56,495 --> 01:13:56,745 Institute. We are nonpartisan. 2265 01:13:58,495 --> 01:13:58,745 We are a land use planning think 2266 01:14:00,328 --> 01:14:00,578 tank that's in uh based in 2267 01:14:00,928 --> 01:14:01,178 Cambridge. 2268 01:14:01,178 --> 01:14:01,428 Massachusetts, 2269 01:14:04,595 --> 01:14:04,845 Um, we have a particular focus 2270 01:14:06,528 --> 01:14:06,778 on the property tax. So, uh, we 2271 01:14:10,328 --> 01:14:10,578 have lots of good data, policy 2272 01:14:12,561 --> 01:14:12,811 focused reports, uh, and whatnot 2273 01:14:14,395 --> 01:14:14,645 that I think are very relevant 2274 01:14:16,328 --> 01:14:16,578 to the work that you're doing in 2275 01:14:16,995 --> 01:14:17,245 Delaware. 2276 01:14:20,261 --> 01:14:20,511 Um, we have a database called 2277 01:14:22,228 --> 01:14:22,478 Significant Features of the 2278 01:14:24,195 --> 01:14:24,445 Property tax, um, which will 2279 01:14:26,195 --> 01:14:26,445 provide a lot of, I think, data 2280 01:14:28,228 --> 01:14:28,478 on not only what neighboring 2281 01:14:28,795 --> 01:14:29,045 states are doing, but what all 2282 01:14:30,295 --> 01:14:30,545 50 states are doing in the 2283 01:14:30,828 --> 01:14:31,078 District of Columbia. So we have 2284 01:14:32,495 --> 01:14:32,745 lots of data that we can share 2285 01:14:34,561 --> 01:14:34,811 uh with you and the staff. Uh, 2286 01:14:36,495 --> 01:14:36,745 so our, our whole purpose here 2287 01:14:38,295 --> 01:14:38,545 is really to kind of provide 2288 01:14:40,228 --> 01:14:40,478 some guidance as a subject 2289 01:14:42,328 --> 01:14:42,578 matter expert, um, we can, uh, 2290 01:14:44,228 --> 01:14:44,478 do some presentations on some of 2291 01:14:46,361 --> 01:14:46,611 the uh exemption programs you're 2292 01:14:47,061 --> 01:14:47,311 considering in terms 2293 01:14:50,228 --> 01:14:50,478 Of, uh, you know, do's and 2294 01:14:50,795 --> 01:14:51,045 don'ts, uh, as we see it in 2295 01:14:52,528 --> 01:14:52,778 terms of best practices and, and 2296 01:14:56,195 --> 01:14:56,445 how to best target relief uh to 2297 01:14:58,595 --> 01:14:58,845 the, the folks that um both, 2298 01:15:00,428 --> 01:15:00,678 most needed. So, ah, with that, 2299 01:15:02,228 --> 01:15:02,478 it's just a quick introduction 2300 01:15:02,928 --> 01:15:03,178 to us and uh we're, we're happy 2301 01:15:06,395 --> 01:15:06,645 to be part of the process here. 2302 01:15:10,395 --> 01:15:10,645 OK. So, yes, it's not all on. 2303 01:15:12,395 --> 01:15:12,645 Just to 2304 01:15:16,228 --> 01:15:16,478 do all the background research. 2305 01:15:18,428 --> 01:15:18,678 So, uh, just mostly, yes, 2306 01:15:20,328 --> 01:15:20,578 and I, and I will say this, 2307 01:15:22,728 --> 01:15:22,978 the, um, Lincoln Institute did, 2308 01:15:24,561 --> 01:15:24,811 uh, do presentations for the 2309 01:15:26,595 --> 01:15:26,845 special committee. 2310 01:15:30,361 --> 01:15:30,611 I thought they were quite good. 2311 01:15:32,428 --> 01:15:32,678 I'm, I, I think they'll be 2312 01:15:34,461 --> 01:15:34,711 extremely useful in terms of 2313 01:15:36,395 --> 01:15:36,645 understanding um the impacts and 2314 01:15:38,328 --> 01:15:38,578 how to go about these, these 2315 01:15:38,895 --> 01:15:39,145 various mechanisms. 2316 01:15:39,295 --> 01:15:39,545 Yeah. 2317 01:15:44,328 --> 01:15:44,578 OK, I know we are only at what, 2318 01:15:46,295 --> 01:15:46,545 11:15, 2319 01:15:48,528 --> 01:15:48,778 Um, but I think we've covered 2320 01:15:50,295 --> 01:15:50,545 what was on the agenda for 2321 01:15:50,895 --> 01:15:51,145 today. 2322 01:15:52,328 --> 01:15:52,578 Is there? 2323 01:15:52,628 --> 01:15:52,878 We need to have 2324 01:15:54,428 --> 01:15:54,678 Sorry? 2325 01:15:56,395 --> 01:15:56,645 Mone. 2326 01:15:58,261 --> 01:15:58,511 thank you. 2327 01:16:00,228 --> 01:16:00,478 Um, just as a follow up to that, 2328 01:16:00,861 --> 01:16:01,111 I think it would be helpful, uh, 2329 01:16:02,461 --> 01:16:02,711 as we look at different relief 2330 01:16:04,461 --> 01:16:04,711 options to also look at if we 2331 01:16:06,461 --> 01:16:06,711 have the information available 2332 01:16:08,261 --> 01:16:08,511 of what the average property tax 2333 01:16:10,261 --> 01:16:10,511 bill is in each county in 2334 01:16:12,361 --> 01:16:12,611 Delaware, as well as our 2335 01:16:12,928 --> 01:16:13,178 neighboring counties. 2336 01:16:14,328 --> 01:16:14,578 From other states. 2337 01:16:16,495 --> 01:16:16,745 And I don't know if that's 2338 01:16:18,295 --> 01:16:18,545 something that the Lincoln 2339 01:16:18,928 --> 01:16:19,178 Institute has, um, 2340 01:16:22,428 --> 01:16:22,678 Happy to research that myself as 2341 01:16:24,328 --> 01:16:24,578 well, um, 2342 01:16:26,428 --> 01:16:26,678 but as we consider relief, it 2343 01:16:28,461 --> 01:16:28,711 would also be appropriate to 2344 01:16:30,395 --> 01:16:30,645 consider what the bills actually 2345 01:16:32,595 --> 01:16:32,845 are and what's best for 2346 01:16:34,595 --> 01:16:34,845 Delawareans. And 2347 01:16:36,561 --> 01:16:36,811 you'd be looking for county and 2348 01:16:38,395 --> 01:16:38,645 school tax, right? Total, yep, 2349 01:16:39,061 --> 01:16:39,311 the property tax bill. 2350 01:16:48,195 --> 01:16:48,445 I think we can probably get that 2351 01:16:50,361 --> 01:16:50,611 um, I'm sure the counties have 2352 01:16:50,961 --> 01:16:51,211 that. We're probably looking at. 2353 01:16:52,395 --> 01:16:52,645 Then 2354 01:16:56,295 --> 01:16:56,545 A median and an arithmetic 2355 01:16:56,828 --> 01:16:57,078 average type of. 2356 01:17:00,428 --> 01:17:00,678 Way of doing that, is that 2357 01:17:02,328 --> 01:17:02,578 something reasonably easy to 2358 01:17:04,261 --> 01:17:04,511 come up with. Oh, I'm sorry, I'm 2359 01:17:06,228 --> 01:17:06,478 just, uh, my, my wheels are 2360 01:17:08,195 --> 01:17:08,445 spinning. So, um, we have 2361 01:17:08,761 --> 01:17:09,011 different tax rates for each 2362 01:17:10,361 --> 01:17:10,611 municipality in New Castle 2363 01:17:10,895 --> 01:17:11,145 County, so it really depends on 2364 01:17:12,628 --> 01:17:12,878 where you live. Um, City of 2365 01:17:14,461 --> 01:17:14,711 Wilmington resident will pay 2366 01:17:16,561 --> 01:17:16,811 much sum, much different than uh 2367 01:17:20,228 --> 01:17:20,478 someone outside the city. Uh, I 2368 01:17:20,895 --> 01:17:21,145 think that the biggest. 2369 01:17:22,295 --> 01:17:22,545 Thing we're all discussing 2370 01:17:22,895 --> 01:17:23,145 through the school text. 2371 01:17:26,195 --> 01:17:26,445 I mean, I, I have no problem 2372 01:17:26,828 --> 01:17:27,078 providing average and median for 2373 01:17:27,528 --> 01:17:27,778 the county. 2374 01:17:28,328 --> 01:17:28,578 In 2375 01:17:30,328 --> 01:17:30,578 In the municipalities and 2376 01:17:32,295 --> 01:17:32,545 outside of the municipality 2377 01:17:34,361 --> 01:17:34,611 rates, uh, averages and medians, 2378 01:17:36,428 --> 01:17:36,678 um, school districts begin to 2379 01:17:38,228 --> 01:17:38,478 apply something similar as well 2380 01:17:40,228 --> 01:17:40,478 as well based on the meetings 2381 01:17:40,895 --> 01:17:41,145 for those, um. 2382 01:17:44,295 --> 01:17:44,545 But yeah, that's something we 2383 01:17:44,895 --> 01:17:45,145 can. 2384 01:17:46,295 --> 01:17:46,545 We can also throw together 2385 01:17:48,195 --> 01:17:48,445 so. So it seems like we're 2386 01:17:48,761 --> 01:17:49,011 asking the counties to do a lot 2387 01:17:52,295 --> 01:17:52,545 of homework. So. Um, again, if 2388 01:17:52,928 --> 01:17:53,178 like 2 meetings ahead. 2389 01:17:56,428 --> 01:17:56,678 If that's reasonable, it's a 2390 01:17:58,261 --> 01:17:58,511 month away, um. 2391 01:18:00,428 --> 01:18:00,678 So hopefully. 2392 01:18:04,295 --> 01:18:04,545 We can hear back at that time 2393 01:18:04,895 --> 01:18:05,145 and we can add that to the 2394 01:18:06,461 --> 01:18:06,711 agenda for that meeting 2395 01:18:08,528 --> 01:18:08,778 and Ron has his hand raised. OK, 2396 01:18:10,228 --> 01:18:10,478 Ron, you're 2397 01:18:14,361 --> 01:18:14,611 Yeah, sorry, just, just quickly, 2398 01:18:18,261 --> 01:18:18,511 uh, on that question about um uh 2399 01:18:20,261 --> 01:18:20,511 the uh property tax levels in 2400 01:18:22,495 --> 01:18:22,745 other states. We do have um part 2401 01:18:24,295 --> 01:18:24,545 that we do have census data that 2402 01:18:26,228 --> 01:18:26,478 we put into our database that 2403 01:18:26,861 --> 01:18:27,111 gets updated annually. 2404 01:18:30,195 --> 01:18:30,445 Unfortunately, um, it's always 2405 01:18:30,828 --> 01:18:31,078 like a couple of years in 2406 01:18:32,361 --> 01:18:32,611 arrears because of the, the way 2407 01:18:34,295 --> 01:18:34,545 the census data is collected. So 2408 01:18:36,461 --> 01:18:36,711 I think we, our most recent data 2409 01:18:40,228 --> 01:18:40,478 is either 23 or 24, but we can 2410 01:18:40,895 --> 01:18:41,145 at least give you statistics 2411 01:18:41,461 --> 01:18:41,711 like the median assessment. 2412 01:18:44,528 --> 01:18:44,778 Value, median single home value, 2413 01:18:48,295 --> 01:18:48,545 uh, median property tax, uh, 2414 01:18:50,361 --> 01:18:50,611 median property tax is a 2415 01:18:52,195 --> 01:18:52,445 percentage of income. So we do 2416 01:18:52,861 --> 01:18:53,111 have metrics like that, that are 2417 01:18:54,461 --> 01:18:54,711 available by state. We don't 2418 01:18:56,228 --> 01:18:56,478 have it on the county level, but 2419 01:18:56,895 --> 01:18:57,145 we do have it by state. 2420 01:19:00,195 --> 01:19:00,445 Yeah, that would be very 2421 01:19:02,428 --> 01:19:02,678 helpful um if you could provide 2422 01:19:03,095 --> 01:19:03,345 that for 2423 01:19:04,228 --> 01:19:04,478 What do you want? 2424 01:19:06,295 --> 01:19:06,545 New Jersey, Pennsylvania, 2425 01:19:06,861 --> 01:19:07,111 Maryland, and Delaware. 2426 01:19:12,328 --> 01:19:12,578 Data, does that seem 2427 01:19:12,795 --> 01:19:13,045 appropriate? 2428 01:19:13,095 --> 01:19:13,345 Yeah, that 2429 01:19:14,428 --> 01:19:14,678 OK. 2430 01:19:18,495 --> 01:19:18,745 And we have. 2431 01:19:22,495 --> 01:19:22,745 Mr. Del Grande, thank you, sir. 2432 01:19:24,428 --> 01:19:24,678 Um, I was looking at the 2433 01:19:28,195 --> 01:19:28,445 proposed agenda and the, the, 2434 01:19:28,795 --> 01:19:29,045 the January 11th, now January 2435 01:19:30,461 --> 01:19:30,711 25th topic administration data 2436 01:19:34,428 --> 01:19:34,678 and implementation. I'm kind of 2437 01:19:36,428 --> 01:19:36,678 wondering, should we have a 2438 01:19:38,361 --> 01:19:38,611 small discussion of that during 2439 01:19:40,328 --> 01:19:40,578 each of these prior meetings 2440 01:19:42,228 --> 01:19:42,478 because ultimately depending on 2441 01:19:44,361 --> 01:19:44,611 where we go, um, every one of 2442 01:19:46,361 --> 01:19:46,611 these topics is going to have an 2443 01:19:47,061 --> 01:19:47,311 impact on. 2444 01:19:47,311 --> 01:19:47,561 Um, 2445 01:19:48,595 --> 01:19:48,845 Administration and costs and 2446 01:19:49,195 --> 01:19:49,445 those types of things. 2447 01:19:50,461 --> 01:19:50,711 So should that be? 2448 01:19:54,395 --> 01:19:54,645 A part of each meeting prior to 2449 01:19:56,295 --> 01:19:56,545 that, just for a general 2450 01:19:56,795 --> 01:19:57,045 conversation, not for like 2451 01:19:58,295 --> 01:19:58,545 getting into the weeds on 2452 01:20:00,261 --> 01:20:00,511 things, but to give folks 2453 01:20:02,461 --> 01:20:02,711 expectations of what's actually 2454 01:20:04,528 --> 01:20:04,778 doable or not in a in a time 2455 01:20:06,295 --> 01:20:06,545 frame for that. I think that 2456 01:20:08,528 --> 01:20:08,778 that's quite reasonable, and I 2457 01:20:10,228 --> 01:20:10,478 would expect that we'd be 2458 01:20:12,228 --> 01:20:12,478 hearing from the counties 2459 01:20:14,461 --> 01:20:14,711 We can't do that. Sounds like a 2460 01:20:16,228 --> 01:20:16,478 great idea, but there's no way 2461 01:20:16,828 --> 01:20:17,078 to implement that, or the 2462 01:20:20,328 --> 01:20:20,578 implementation is gonna be 2463 01:20:20,895 --> 01:20:21,145 extraordinarily expensive or 2464 01:20:21,495 --> 01:20:21,745 whatever. 2465 01:20:22,428 --> 01:20:22,678 I 2466 01:20:24,461 --> 01:20:24,711 sort of, that's the reason 2467 01:20:25,028 --> 01:20:25,278 everyone's here. 2468 01:20:28,228 --> 01:20:28,478 So I expect that to come up 2469 01:20:30,195 --> 01:20:30,445 during discussions and various 2470 01:20:30,895 --> 01:20:31,145 approaches so. 2471 01:20:34,395 --> 01:20:34,645 And I did want to have that as a 2472 01:20:35,095 --> 01:20:35,345 separate 2473 01:20:36,561 --> 01:20:36,811 uh thing also because. 2474 01:20:40,228 --> 01:20:40,478 At some point we're going to be 2475 01:20:40,928 --> 01:20:41,178 in our heads looking at these uh 2476 01:20:42,361 --> 01:20:42,611 all these options and trying to 2477 01:20:44,461 --> 01:20:44,711 figure out what do we think 2478 01:20:48,161 --> 01:20:48,411 seems most reasonable or seems 2479 01:20:50,428 --> 01:20:50,678 doable, and then, um, you know, 2480 01:20:52,461 --> 01:20:52,711 it's sort of, you have that 2481 01:20:54,661 --> 01:20:54,911 reality check as, OK, yes, these 2482 01:20:55,395 --> 01:20:55,645 are. 2483 01:20:58,395 --> 01:20:58,645 Doable, but the implementation 2484 01:20:59,061 --> 01:20:59,311 side of this is gonna be. 2485 01:21:02,495 --> 01:21:02,745 Very onerous, um, you know, who 2486 01:21:04,528 --> 01:21:04,778 are not so onerous, so that'll, 2487 01:21:06,461 --> 01:21:06,711 that'll, I like having that as a 2488 01:21:08,395 --> 01:21:08,645 separate discussion topic as 2489 01:21:08,995 --> 01:21:09,245 well. Great. 2490 01:21:12,195 --> 01:21:12,445 And just add for the, for the 2491 01:21:12,828 --> 01:21:13,078 team here, uh, New Castle 2492 01:21:14,495 --> 01:21:14,745 County, we average about 1500 2493 01:21:16,328 --> 01:21:16,578 senior exemption applications a 2494 01:21:17,028 --> 01:21:17,278 year. 2495 01:21:20,228 --> 01:21:20,478 And we do not require seniors to 2496 01:21:20,895 --> 01:21:21,145 reapply every year. 2497 01:21:24,361 --> 01:21:24,611 Oh. But we do, we do manage the 2498 01:21:26,295 --> 01:21:26,545 program weekly. We look for 2499 01:21:28,195 --> 01:21:28,445 changes that happen every week 2500 01:21:28,861 --> 01:21:29,111 and adjust from there. 2501 01:21:30,428 --> 01:21:30,678 Did someone have their hand up, 2502 01:21:32,461 --> 01:21:32,711 Uh, Bob Becker had his hand up, 2503 01:21:34,428 --> 01:21:34,678 but he put it down, so I don't 2504 01:21:36,228 --> 01:21:36,478 know if he still wants to 2505 01:21:36,828 --> 01:21:37,078 comment. Bob, did you still I 2506 01:21:37,428 --> 01:21:37,678 did. 2507 01:21:40,395 --> 01:21:40,645 I do have a question. I'm not 2508 01:21:42,495 --> 01:21:42,745 sure this is possible, but when 2509 01:21:46,195 --> 01:21:46,445 we look at surrounding states, 2510 01:21:46,828 --> 01:21:47,078 counties, and taxes. 2511 01:21:50,361 --> 01:21:50,611 We could be comparing apples to 2512 01:21:52,328 --> 01:21:52,578 oranges with the reality that 2513 01:21:54,328 --> 01:21:54,578 those states could have sales 2514 01:21:56,261 --> 01:21:56,511 tax and a different type of 2515 01:21:58,295 --> 01:21:58,545 income tax, so the complete 2516 01:22:00,428 --> 01:22:00,678 picture of revenue for a county 2517 01:22:02,395 --> 01:22:02,645 could be comprised of more 2518 01:22:04,461 --> 01:22:04,711 components than what Delaware 2519 01:22:06,528 --> 01:22:06,778 has, so not suggesting we expand 2520 01:22:08,295 --> 01:22:08,545 the scope at all. I heard 2521 01:22:08,828 --> 01:22:09,078 earlier that that's clearly 2522 01:22:10,628 --> 01:22:10,878 beyond the scope, but the, at 2523 01:22:14,261 --> 01:22:14,511 least some caveat to the data we 2524 01:22:14,928 --> 01:22:15,178 pick up from the surrounding 2525 01:22:16,361 --> 01:22:16,611 states that we may not be 2526 01:22:16,928 --> 01:22:17,178 comparing apples and apples 2527 01:22:17,495 --> 01:22:17,745 with. 2528 01:22:20,228 --> 01:22:20,478 This one, particularly in states 2529 01:22:20,861 --> 01:22:21,111 that have significantly higher 2530 01:22:24,328 --> 01:22:24,578 sales tax or sales tax period. 2531 01:22:26,328 --> 01:22:26,578 So is that possible or is that 2532 01:22:26,995 --> 01:22:27,245 too big an ask given the time 2533 01:22:27,661 --> 01:22:27,911 frame? 2534 01:22:30,628 --> 01:22:30,878 Well, I think, I think we can 2535 01:22:34,295 --> 01:22:34,545 probably uh at least recognize 2536 01:22:36,461 --> 01:22:36,711 which states have 2537 01:22:36,861 --> 01:22:37,111 uh 2538 01:22:40,228 --> 01:22:40,478 allow municipalities or local 2539 01:22:42,628 --> 01:22:42,878 entities to add to a sales tax, 2540 01:22:43,295 --> 01:22:43,545 um. 2541 01:22:46,361 --> 01:22:46,611 Which is, you know, I think that 2542 01:22:50,328 --> 01:22:50,578 would be the fair comparison 2543 01:22:50,928 --> 01:22:51,178 here. OK. Thank you. 2544 01:23:00,528 --> 01:23:00,778 OK. Any other questions, 2545 01:23:01,128 --> 01:23:01,378 comments? 2546 01:23:04,428 --> 01:23:04,678 No one's sowing tomatoes, so I 2547 01:23:06,228 --> 01:23:06,478 guess I didn't completely do a 2548 01:23:08,461 --> 01:23:08,711 bad job, um, we just forgot. 2549 01:23:10,428 --> 01:23:10,678 You forgot the tomatoes. All 2550 01:23:10,995 --> 01:23:11,245 right. 2551 01:23:14,195 --> 01:23:14,445 I think Senator Huxtable will 2552 01:23:14,795 --> 01:23:15,045 have a tomato stand out in front 2553 01:23:18,228 --> 01:23:18,478 just play ball before the next 2554 01:23:18,928 --> 01:23:19,178 meeting any, any. 2555 01:23:22,228 --> 01:23:22,478 Do I hear a motion? We have to 2556 01:23:22,895 --> 01:23:23,145 do public comment first. Oh yes, 2557 01:23:24,461 --> 01:23:24,711 sorry. 2558 01:23:26,461 --> 01:23:26,711 Anyone for per for public 2559 01:23:28,328 --> 01:23:28,578 comment in person. I don't have 2560 01:23:29,028 --> 01:23:29,278 anyone signed up in person for 2561 01:23:30,361 --> 01:23:30,611 public comment, but if there's 2562 01:23:32,228 --> 01:23:32,478 anyone online who would like to 2563 01:23:32,828 --> 01:23:33,078 give comments, please use the 2564 01:23:33,461 --> 01:23:33,711 raise hand button. 2565 01:23:40,428 --> 01:23:40,678 I'm not seeing any hands raised 2566 01:23:41,128 --> 01:23:41,378 on Zoom. 2567 01:23:44,495 --> 01:23:44,745 OK, since there's uh, so we've 2568 01:23:46,395 --> 01:23:46,645 now concluded public comments 2569 01:23:47,061 --> 01:23:47,311 OK, since there's uh, so we've 2570 01:23:47,761 --> 01:23:48,011 now concluded public comment 2571 01:23:48,328 --> 01:23:48,578 section. 2572 01:23:50,295 --> 01:23:50,545 So actually someone. 2573 01:23:50,695 --> 01:23:50,945 All right, 2574 01:23:50,995 --> 01:23:51,245 uh, Susan Stewart. 2575 01:23:56,228 --> 01:23:56,478 You should be able to unmute and 2576 01:23:56,928 --> 01:23:57,178 provide comments. 2577 01:24:00,495 --> 01:24:00,745 Excellent. Thank you so much. I 2578 01:24:01,195 --> 01:24:01,445 appreciate it. 2579 01:24:02,528 --> 01:24:02,778 Um, good morning, everyone. 2580 01:24:04,361 --> 01:24:04,611 Thank you for convening this 2581 01:24:06,395 --> 01:24:06,645 group. I find it incredibly 2582 01:24:08,228 --> 01:24:08,478 fascinating. I'm actually 2583 01:24:10,428 --> 01:24:10,678 joining you as uh a citizen of 2584 01:24:12,328 --> 01:24:12,578 New Castle County, even though 2585 01:24:14,395 --> 01:24:14,645 in my work life, I do work for 2586 01:24:16,261 --> 01:24:16,511 DC government as a fiscal 2587 01:24:18,228 --> 01:24:18,478 analyst, writing the 51 city tax 2588 01:24:20,261 --> 01:24:20,511 burden study. Uh, I just wanted 2589 01:24:22,228 --> 01:24:22,478 to offer up that if you have any 2590 01:24:22,961 --> 01:24:23,211 questions, we'd be happy to 2591 01:24:24,528 --> 01:24:24,778 share that study with you. It 2592 01:24:26,561 --> 01:24:26,811 looks at the hypothetical 2593 01:24:28,595 --> 01:24:28,845 families across 6 different 2594 01:24:30,628 --> 01:24:30,878 families in, uh, 51 different 2595 01:24:31,195 --> 01:24:31,445 cities across. 2596 01:24:34,228 --> 01:24:34,478 All the different, different 2597 01:24:36,228 --> 01:24:36,478 states and looks at tax burden, 2598 01:24:36,895 --> 01:24:37,145 including property tax, sales 2599 01:24:44,261 --> 01:24:44,511 tax, income tax, and, uh, auto 2600 01:24:44,961 --> 01:24:45,211 taxes. 2601 01:24:48,228 --> 01:24:48,478 But thank you for committing the 2602 01:24:50,228 --> 01:24:50,478 group, and that's all my public 2603 01:24:50,861 --> 01:24:51,111 comment. Thank you. Thank you. 2604 01:24:54,728 --> 01:24:54,978 OK. Uh, that's it for virtual 2605 01:24:55,395 --> 01:24:55,645 public comment. 2606 01:24:58,461 --> 01:24:58,711 OK, having concluded the public 2607 01:25:00,495 --> 01:25:00,745 comment portion, do I 2608 01:25:04,328 --> 01:25:04,578 hear emotions from what you do 2609 01:25:04,995 --> 01:25:05,245 in church. 2610 01:25:08,195 --> 01:25:08,445 We, we have a motion and a 2611 01:25:10,428 --> 01:25:10,678 second to adjourn. All in favor. 2612 01:25:11,128 --> 01:25:11,378 Say aye.e. 2613 01:25:11,378 --> 01:25:11,628 We, we have a motion and a 2614 01:25:11,961 --> 01:25:12,211 second to adjourn. All in favor. 2615 01:25:12,628 --> 01:25:12,878 Say aye. Aye. Aye. Aye. 2616 01:25:13,128 --> 01:25:13,378 All right. 2617 01:25:13,378 --> 01:25:13,628 We, we have a motion and a 2618 01:25:13,928 --> 01:25:14,178 second to adjourn. All in favor. 2619 01:25:14,628 --> 01:25:14,878 Say aye. Aye. Bye. 2620 01:25:15,095 --> 01:25:15,345 See you in a couple of weeks. 2621 01:25:16,195 --> 01:25:16,445 Thank you everybody for being 2622 01:25:16,795 --> 01:25:17,045 willing to do this. I know it's 2623 01:25:17,495 --> 01:25:17,745 uh. 2624 01:25:20,495 --> 01:25:20,745 It's not that easy to set time 2625 01:25:22,528 --> 01:25:22,778 aside, and it's much appreciated 2626 01:25:24,328 --> 01:25:24,578 and much needed. Thank you.