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So good morning, everyone. Thank you for joining us.

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I'm assembly member mily rozic chair of the consumer protection

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committee. I want to thank the members

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attending today's hearing. We have from the majority,

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assembly member torres and assembly member patrick carroll.

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brine miller, assembly member d'urso and assembly member

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jensen. I want to say thank you to my

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committee staff, michael sullivan, sky mathews and

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allison doer. And thank you to all our

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witnesses who will be joining us today to present testimony.

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we also have submitted testimony from the new york thruway

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authority, delaware north and apple green new york travel

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plazas. We will be posting all of the

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testimony that you'll hear from today, and the ones that have

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been submitted on the consumer web page at a later date for the

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sake of transparency and everyone having information.

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today, we are examining an issue that almost every new yorker has

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experienced, and one that increasingly effects families,

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visitors and every day consumers.

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the cost of food and beverages at publicly-funded facilities.

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whether you're taking your kids to a sporting event, state park,

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beach, traveling through an airport or stopping at a rest

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stop, the experience of purchasing food and drinks has

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become increasingly expensive. For many consumers, these aren't

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optional purchases in the traditional sense.

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at men venues, outside food and beverages are restricted or

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prohibited. Two years ago, the consumer

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protection committee passed legislation to allow for

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reusable water bottles at certain venues, and so that's

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just one step, tiny step, in trying to bring some balance

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there. That means families who want a

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snack for their kids or something to eat during a long

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events really have no realistic alternative but to purchase from

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the venue's concession operator. A bottle of water that costs a

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fraction of the price outside a stadium can cost several times

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as much inside. A family attending a game or

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spending the day at a facility can pay a significant premium

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simply because of where they happen to be.

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and that's widely reported, buffalo news did a big story at

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the start of the bill's season about how much it would cost a

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family of 4. And that was hundreds, if not

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thousands of dollars. So we have to ask ourselves,

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what the point does convenience become an exploitation of a

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captive consumer? And that brings us to one

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central concept, which we will examine today, called street

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pricing. Street micing is the -- pricing

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is the idea that consumers should be able to purchase goods

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at prices reasonably comparable to what they would pay outside

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of the venue. Rather than imposing substantial

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markups simply because the consumer has limited

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alternatives, venues and concession operators should

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consider pricing practices that reflect fairness, transparency,

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and today's buzzword, affordability.

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of course, we recognize that operating concessions come with

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real costs. Vendors have staffing expenses,

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labor costs, supply chains, rent, equipment and other

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operational considerations. We also recognize that

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concession agreements and business models vary

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significantly across venues, including in new york city where

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it's expensive to operate. Our goal today is not to dismiss

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those realities or suggest that every venue must operate under

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an identical model. We want to better understand how

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prices are determined, what drives up the markups, and

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whether there are reasonable standards or best practices

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across the industry to protect consumers without undermining

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the viability of concession operations.

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and that means looking at more than just a sticker price.

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it means examining whether prices are clearly disclosed,

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whether consumers have meaningful alternatives, and

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what kind of oversight mechanisms are in place to

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ensure fair practices. So today we'll hear from some

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stakeholders across the industry and from those who advocate on

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behalf of consumers. I wish that more of the stadiums

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and actual venues chose to be represented here today.

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many of them declined to comment or declined our invitation.

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I hope they are still watching. Ultimately, consumers should not

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have to choose between participating in a family

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outing, enjoying a public space or staying within their budget.

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fair pricing, transparency and consumer choice shouldn't be

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luxuries. They should be part of the

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experience new yorkers can expect when they visit our

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public facilities or a game. Thank you again to all the

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witnesses. Thank you to my colleagues who

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are here. I look forward to a productive

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discussion. A bit of housekeeping.

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we only have two panels today. So it should go fairly quickly.

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the first panel, each will have 5 minutes to present and then

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the chair and the anchor will each have 5 minutes of questions

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and everyone else will have 3 minutes.

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I'll just turn it over really quickly to my chair.

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mr. Miller. >> thank you for having this

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hearing today. This has been an issue

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throughout new york state, the country, all over the place.

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the consumers getting gouged at a lot of the venues or a lot of

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the, let's say, closed markets that are out there.

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and we are looking forward to having some testimony on those.

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thank you. >> okay, with that, our first

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panelist is christopher d'angelo, the chief deputy

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attorney general for economic justice from the office of the

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new york state attorney general. Take it away.

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>> good morning, everybody. Good morning chair rosic and

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committee members. My name is christopher d'angelo

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and I'm the chief deputy attorney general at the new york

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state attorney general's office. Thank you for the opportunity to

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testify on this very important topic.

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we are in an affordability crisis.

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and we know that consumers across the state are being

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gouged for everything from basic necessities to specialty items.

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and experiences that involve entertainment.

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attorney general james in our office is deeply concerned by

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reports of profiteering in stadiums, theaters and other

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places where consumers don't have ready alternatives to

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in-house sellers. Like you, we have read with

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concern about things like policy banning outside water bottles at

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worldcup games. In an attempt to force consumers

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to purchase extremely stadium watery versed after fierce

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public backlash. The saratoga performing arts

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center, which bans outside lawnchairs during outdoor live

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nation concerts, instead requiring rental of those

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lawnchairs via live nation for 15 dollars each.

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a policy that has been maintained despite a jury having

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found live nation to be in a legal monopoly based on a

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lawsuit brought by the new york attorney general and 33 other

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state attorney generals. Price inflation at major league

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baseball has gotten outrageous where an average fan who spends

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5 dollars on a beer and hotdog in 1985, 15 dollars in today's

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money, now spends as much as 20 dollars on a single beer.

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when a consumer is at an entertainment venue, arena or

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sports stadium, the venue decides who will sell the food

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inside the venue and also decides whether the venue will

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allow outside food to be brought in.

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although there may be competition for the right to

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sell inside that venue, those decisions are made by the venues

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with their own bottom line and not the consumer's best interest

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as the key consideration. And once inside the vue, the

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consumer is captive. If the venue doesn't permit

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outside food, the consumer must purchase from the concession if

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they want something to eat or drink.

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the impact on families is particularly significant.

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we are long past the day where kids sized meals at ballparks

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were charged at kid-size the prices.

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given the control over the consumer's choices, is it any

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surprise that prices are double or triple what they would have

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been when consumers have easy access to goods sold by

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competitors or able to bring in their own food or drink?

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the existing enforcement tools are not targeted to these harms.

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the donly act, antitrust statute, applies to

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anticompetitive conduct, but about it can address concession

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pricing, not applicable to these general facts here.

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likewise, whether or not consumer protection laws like

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the fair business practice act would apply, would depend on the

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specific facts and circumstances of each case and not apply to

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specific pricing decisions within a particular venue.

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but, we think there are several common sense policy

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prescriptions to address the most egregious price increases.

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first, we encourage the legislature to require that

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stadiums and other entertainment venues allow consumers to bring

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in their own food and non alcoholic beverages.

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where venues don't have chairs, they should be allowed to bring

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their own. Directly allowing competition

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from outside the venue to compete with in-venue options is

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a straightforward way to increase consumer's options

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including low-priced outside venue options, while respecting

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the ability to provide unique offerings.

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it's also important public health measure.

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in the this era of extreme temperatures and climate change

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to ensure that there are min mam impediments to spectators

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receiving proper hydration. We also recognize that venues

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need the ability to impose restrictions on things brought

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from outside, to ensure they comply with liquor license

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conditions, but many venues have already managed to strike a

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balance between these concerns and allowing consumers to bring

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in their own materials. If these venues can allow

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consumers to bring their own food and drink already while

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addressing safety and compliance concerns, there is no reason why

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all major venues and stadiums should not allow consumers to do

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the same. Venues should not be allowed to

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artificially restrict competition for food and drink

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for no reason other than pumping up their profits.

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second, and more importantly, the legislature could build on

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the work of the port authority in bills like the one that's

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been proposed by the chair. The port authority currently has

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a restriction on airport concessions that is tied to

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street prices. They allow certain amount of

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surcharge on top of that. I think we would like to see

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that surcharge be more limited than the one that the port

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authority allows for, but if in the way the port authority

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structure is set up today f an airport seller has the same kind

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of store in new york or the new jersey area outside of the

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airport, think of starbuck's, then the price they charge at

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the airport has to be the same price that they charge outside.

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second, if the airport seller only operates in the airport,

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their prices are pegged to the average price regularly charged

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in the metro area by similar retailers for the same or

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similar area. This is similar to how price

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gouging works in abnormal market conditions and is measured under

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new york state law already. There are obviously cases in

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these rules so the port authority does allow some

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cushion for prices that are higher than the standards.

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such a cushion may be warranted but state should keep margin

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limited. The port authority rules are

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built on state law already. The state should now return the

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favor and build on these port authority rules for a statewide

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law that says very simply that whatever you charge inside one

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of these captive consumer spaces needs to be what you charge

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outside. In setting out these examples, I

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used the word, price, a lot. It wouldn't be okay for vendors

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to subject to these laws to get around them by setting the price

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at one level and then adding hidden fees or surcharges at the

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register. The port authority allows

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certain surcharges to be added on top of the amount that the

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threshold amount they allow above the street price.

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we would recommend that any state law doesn't allow for such

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surcharges. We also believe that it's high

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time for new york to adopt a comprehensive loophole-free, no

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hidden fees law for the entire state.

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we believe the new york city dcwp rules in this area that

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were recently adopted, are a great model to build on

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statewide. In crafting any policy in this

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area, it's helpful for us for enforcers and venues as parties,

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to have clear objective criteria against watch to compare a

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businesses's compliance and we recommend there be

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reasonably-sized penalties to ensure that violating the law is

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not just the cost of doing business.

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I thank the committee and the chair for providing the

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opportunity to share input on this topic.

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our office will continue to protect new yorkers whether they

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are at a ball game or concert or anywhere in the state.

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thank you. >> thank you very much.

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I'll start with a few questions. You mentioned the fair business

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act, which we did a few years ago as well through the

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committee, and antitrust laws. Talk us through how these

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situations are not price gouging.

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especially it's one thing at a venue but I'm thinking of the

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case where you're on the through way and you're captive audience

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to whatever is in that one building for the next 40 miles.

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like, you're a captive consumer in that situation.

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so how is that situation not price gouging?

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what is the interplay between the current price gouging laws

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on the books and situations like this?

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>> so price gouging ordinarily is a very limited concept and

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it's a limited concept in new york state law, which

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applies to abnormal disruptions. And those abnormal disruptions

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are defined in the statute as things like extreme weather

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events or war or some other market event that isn't the type

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of just an ordinary ball game or just being in a particular venue

247
00:15:30,375 --> 00:15:34,345
that exists in the world on any given day.

248
00:15:34,345 --> 00:15:37,449
so the price gouging laws is designed for those extreme

249
00:15:37,449 --> 00:15:40,852
unusual events, not for something that happens in the

250
00:15:40,852 --> 00:15:42,720
ordinary course of day-to-day business.

251
00:15:42,720 --> 00:15:45,991
we have just an industry where there is a market failure.

252
00:15:45,991 --> 00:15:49,261
and competition isn't working because the only place where

253
00:15:49,261 --> 00:15:54,333
there is competition is for the right to sell at the venue.

254
00:15:54,333 --> 00:15:58,203
and there, the venue is only making that decision on the

255
00:15:58,203 --> 00:16:01,539
basis of their own best interests and because they have

256
00:16:01,539 --> 00:16:04,810
monopoly power, they are the monopolist.

257
00:16:04,810 --> 00:16:08,247
the only ones that control that particular venue and that

258
00:16:08,247 --> 00:16:11,150
particular market. They are able to make decisions

259
00:16:11,150 --> 00:16:16,555
that raise prices to whatever the highest price is that a

260
00:16:16,555 --> 00:16:19,958
consumer will be willing to pay. Unfortunately, competition laws

261
00:16:19,958 --> 00:16:24,496
also are not a great fit for this either because there is

262
00:16:24,496 --> 00:16:27,990
nothing inherently illegal -- new york law and federal law

263
00:16:27,990 --> 00:16:31,103
doesn't make it illegal to be a monopolist or charge monopoly

264
00:16:31,103 --> 00:16:32,971
prices. What it makes it illegal to do

265
00:16:32,971 --> 00:16:38,971
is obtain that monopoly by doing something to thwart competition

266
00:16:39,440 --> 00:16:41,113
elsewhere. You're allowed to be a

267
00:16:41,113 --> 00:16:43,648
monopolist in the united states and in new york.

268
00:16:43,648 --> 00:16:48,320
you just can't become a mop or maintain that monopoly by doing

269
00:16:48,320 --> 00:16:50,190
something that harms another competitor.

270
00:16:50,190 --> 00:16:52,358
so those laws don't really fit here either.

271
00:16:52,358 --> 00:16:54,660
that doesn't take away from the fact we have a market failure

272
00:16:54,660 --> 00:17:00,999
because when you show up at this monopolist venue, you can't vote

273
00:17:00,999 --> 00:17:04,869
with your feet in the way that you would if you were walking

274
00:17:04,869 --> 00:17:07,539
down main street. And you can say, that coffee

275
00:17:07,539 --> 00:17:11,576
shop is charging me 5 bucks for a cup of coffee and that one is

276
00:17:11,576 --> 00:17:14,413
willing to charge me 3 dollars for a cup of coffee.

277
00:17:14,413 --> 00:17:18,816
I don't think the 5 dollar cup of coffee is worth the -- no

278
00:17:18,816 --> 00:17:21,887
quality benefit, so I'm going to choose the 3 dollar cup of

279
00:17:21,887 --> 00:17:23,889
coffee. Every consumer can make that

280
00:17:23,889 --> 00:17:27,910
decision for themselves. But when you have a venue where

281
00:17:27,910 --> 00:17:33,691
you can't vote with your feet and choose a different vendor,

282
00:17:33,898 --> 00:17:39,471
you lose that price competition that exists in the ordinary

283
00:17:39,471 --> 00:17:42,306
world. >> and then, I'm going to let my

284
00:17:42,306 --> 00:17:48,906
colleagues talk about the hidden fees portion of it, but, is

285
00:17:51,382 --> 00:17:56,754
there current things that your office does if someone brings a

286
00:17:56,754 --> 00:17:58,457
complaint about these situations?

287
00:17:58,457 --> 00:18:02,860
I guess in the case of the 15 dollar lawnchairs, is there

288
00:18:02,860 --> 00:18:06,998
enforcement that is currently happening within your office?

289
00:18:06,998 --> 00:18:09,267
what does that picture look like?

290
00:18:09,267 --> 00:18:13,672
>> I would say on the topic of the 15 dollar lawn chair, as you

291
00:18:13,672 --> 00:18:18,243
know, we have litigated a case to try to break up live nation's

292
00:18:18,243 --> 00:18:21,880
monopoly, because not only is each individual venue a

293
00:18:21,880 --> 00:18:25,170
monopolist, but live nation is a monopolist because they own 70%

294
00:18:25,170 --> 00:18:30,455
of the arenas, concert arenas in this country, and we're hoping

295
00:18:30,455 --> 00:18:36,628
that -- we've won on liability and hope and expect the judge

296
00:18:36,628 --> 00:18:40,980
will remedies break up live nation's illegal monopoly.

297
00:18:40,980 --> 00:18:44,703
we had mixed success in getting that kind of a remedy in these

298
00:18:44,703 --> 00:18:46,838
cases. So, we do have some enforcement

299
00:18:46,838 --> 00:18:51,910
that we can do under particular facts and circumstances.

300
00:18:51,910 --> 00:18:54,279
the laws we have on the books today are not well suited to

301
00:18:54,279 --> 00:18:57,983
address the problem of a particular venue that has

302
00:18:57,983 --> 00:19:02,387
vendors that are charging excessive prices in a situation

303
00:19:02,387 --> 00:19:05,390
that doesn't otherwise trigger the price gouging laws.

304
00:19:05,390 --> 00:19:09,594
>> but there is no effort to maybe like look at the actual

305
00:19:09,594 --> 00:19:14,265
contracts that the thruway authority signed with x vendor?

306
00:19:14,265 --> 00:19:20,806
is there any oversight in terms of that side of things?

307
00:19:20,806 --> 00:19:25,143
>> we're not in the position to review each individual contract.

308
00:19:25,143 --> 00:19:28,513
I think if we had reports that vendors were operating outside

309
00:19:28,513 --> 00:19:32,170
of the restrictions that the port authority does place on

310
00:19:32,170 --> 00:19:34,352
them, that would be something we would want to take a look at

311
00:19:34,352 --> 00:19:38,552
more closely. So if the surcharges, which

312
00:19:38,557 --> 00:19:43,429
again we view as too high already, if the surcharges and

313
00:19:43,429 --> 00:19:47,966
excess pricing that the port authority allows are still being

314
00:19:47,966 --> 00:19:51,360
exceeded, if there are reports of that, we would want to take a

315
00:19:51,360 --> 00:19:53,338
closer look. We have not received those types

316
00:19:53,338 --> 00:19:58,738
of complaints but we would welcome them for sure.

317
00:19:58,777 --> 00:20:01,112
>> thank you. It's great to see you.

318
00:20:01,112 --> 00:20:03,581
and I'm grateful we are talking about this topic.

319
00:20:03,581 --> 00:20:07,919
I was doing some research here and I saw that for a family of 4

320
00:20:07,919 --> 00:20:13,592
to go to an nfl game, the cost is 1,340 dollars, including the

321
00:20:13,592 --> 00:20:15,927
tickets, food, parking and everything else.

322
00:20:15,927 --> 00:20:21,633
so I think -- and that's the highest number also nhl game,

323
00:20:21,633 --> 00:20:22,868
761 dollars. Et cetera.

324
00:20:22,868 --> 00:20:26,872
I'm curious to know, and I think the chairwoman raised this, but

325
00:20:26,872 --> 00:20:29,341
I'm of the view I think the state should be at the table

326
00:20:29,341 --> 00:20:32,744
when we're negotiating a stadium that is going to be partially

327
00:20:32,744 --> 00:20:36,347
funded by taxpayers to include pricing and what the fair

328
00:20:36,347 --> 00:20:38,483
pricing model should be for concessions.

329
00:20:38,483 --> 00:20:43,355
have you seen this in other states across the country and

330
00:20:43,355 --> 00:20:46,624
other pricing models that have worked?

331
00:20:46,624 --> 00:20:49,761
>> we have not seen this in other places around the country.

332
00:20:49,761 --> 00:20:53,310
but I think you're point is a good one.

333
00:20:53,310 --> 00:20:55,800
where there where it's public land or publicly-funded

334
00:20:55,800 --> 00:21:00,000
facilities or publicly-financed facilities, that makes this

335
00:21:00,905 --> 00:21:03,441
problem even more outrageous because you have the public who

336
00:21:03,441 --> 00:21:05,811
is helping to support the profitability of the venue in

337
00:21:05,811 --> 00:21:08,413
the first place to get it off the ground, and then they're

338
00:21:08,413 --> 00:21:12,183
coming back and taking advantage of the very consumers who are

339
00:21:12,183 --> 00:21:15,860
paying the taxes that are helping to fund it.

340
00:21:15,860 --> 00:21:20,920
I mean, spac is an outrageous example in my view.

341
00:21:20,920 --> 00:21:26,398
you have live nation who has the right -- they contracted with

342
00:21:26,398 --> 00:21:30,669
spac to be the promotor and venue operator for all their

343
00:21:30,669 --> 00:21:32,537
concerts. Which by the way, they don't

344
00:21:32,537 --> 00:21:35,675
have much of a choice because if they want live nation concerts

345
00:21:35,675 --> 00:21:38,443
at their venue, there is no other game in town.

346
00:21:38,443 --> 00:21:41,880
that's the problem with their monopoly.

347
00:21:41,880 --> 00:21:47,619
but, in that contract it then allows live nation to come in

348
00:21:47,619 --> 00:21:51,556
and extract monopoly prices from everyone who goes to that venue

349
00:21:51,556 --> 00:21:56,270
on public land. And I think a state law -- it

350
00:21:56,270 --> 00:21:59,797
won't solve live nation's monopoly problem and I hope the

351
00:21:59,797 --> 00:22:02,701
court does that when they consider remedies in this case,

352
00:22:02,701 --> 00:22:05,504
but it would help solve the pricing problem if the state

353
00:22:05,504 --> 00:22:08,440
were to impose limits on the price that is could be charged

354
00:22:08,440 --> 00:22:12,377
in these venues. And while I do think it's a

355
00:22:12,377 --> 00:22:15,680
particular problem at state facilities or state financed

356
00:22:15,680 --> 00:22:19,500
facilities, we don't see any reason why such a law needs to

357
00:22:19,500 --> 00:22:23,880
be limited to public facilities. This is a market failure.

358
00:22:23,880 --> 00:22:26,958
you could look at other situations -- I know a lot of

359
00:22:26,958 --> 00:22:28,192
people don't like price controls.

360
00:22:28,192 --> 00:22:32,663
we're not a fan of them in the general sense, but this is a

361
00:22:32,663 --> 00:22:36,334
particularly unusual economic situation where there is a very

362
00:22:36,334 --> 00:22:40,504
obvious market failure where competition doesn't work.

363
00:22:40,504 --> 00:22:44,275
you can't choose the other hotdog stand.

364
00:22:44,275 --> 00:22:46,611
you can't walk down the street and choose a different place to

365
00:22:46,611 --> 00:22:50,848
get your cup of coffee. It's all in one place.

366
00:22:50,848 --> 00:22:54,448
>> thank you. My time is up.

367
00:22:55,186 --> 00:22:58,990
appreciate it. >> thank you for your testimony.

368
00:22:58,990 --> 00:23:01,425
let's look that the a little differently here.

369
00:23:01,425 --> 00:23:06,765
could an imposed price cap result reduced portions or

370
00:23:06,765 --> 00:23:10,502
quality by the vendor? Because we're talking about a

371
00:23:10,502 --> 00:23:16,502
price gap, but we're not regulating what they sell for

372
00:23:17,709 --> 00:23:21,780
what markup or whatever they have on it.

373
00:23:21,780 --> 00:23:23,815
>> there is summery a potential evasion or portion problem.

374
00:23:23,815 --> 00:23:25,917
I think there are ways to address that.

375
00:23:25,917 --> 00:23:29,454
I think a properly-structured policy would require similar

376
00:23:29,454 --> 00:23:35,260
prices for similar goods. So, if I was getting a 16 ounce

377
00:23:35,260 --> 00:23:40,798
beer before and now I'm getting an 8 ounce beer, the price would

378
00:23:40,798 --> 00:23:44,168
have to be consistent with an 8 ounce beer outside of the

379
00:23:44,168 --> 00:23:48,873
stadium not 16 ounce beer. So portion sizes are reduced,

380
00:23:48,873 --> 00:23:54,110
then the compared or outside venue comparison would need to

381
00:23:54,110 --> 00:23:57,160
be adjusted to be the new portion size.

382
00:23:57,160 --> 00:23:59,750
that's one way to address that problem.

383
00:23:59,750 --> 00:24:02,420
is it perfect? Would venues or operators seek

384
00:24:02,420 --> 00:24:04,820
to cut corners? Potentially.

385
00:24:07,250 --> 00:24:09,829
but that's a problem that I think we could try to address

386
00:24:09,829 --> 00:24:12,297
through some sort of enforcement mechanism.

387
00:24:12,297 --> 00:24:15,700
>> who would be regulating all of this?

388
00:24:15,700 --> 00:24:21,873
who will be the agency that will go into the venues and show up

389
00:24:21,873 --> 00:24:27,450
at a yankees game and get the 8 ounce beer for 20 dollars and --

390
00:24:27,450 --> 00:24:28,513
>> sure. I mean that's what our office

391
00:24:28,513 --> 00:24:31,983
does. If you pass a law and you give

392
00:24:31,983 --> 00:24:36,587
the attorney general's office the right to enforce the law, we

393
00:24:36,587 --> 00:24:40,125
will -- either because you will go to the venue and say, I used

394
00:24:40,125 --> 00:24:44,195
to get a 16 ounce beer and now it's 8 ounces and I'm being

395
00:24:44,195 --> 00:24:46,865
charged the same price for this 8 ounce beer.

396
00:24:46,865 --> 00:24:51,202
you'll send a complaint to us, hopefully, and we get complaints

397
00:24:51,202 --> 00:24:54,939
regularly from consumers. And we act on those complaints

398
00:24:54,939 --> 00:24:58,143
and bring enforcement actions to hold businesses and individuals

399
00:24:58,143 --> 00:24:59,477
accountable when they break the law.

400
00:24:59,477 --> 00:25:04,816
and we would seek to do so here. We also, sometimes, do under

401
00:25:04,816 --> 00:25:09,616
cover investigations. I'll volunteer to go to the

402
00:25:09,754 --> 00:25:12,523
bill's game and -- we have actual investigators who do this

403
00:25:12,523 --> 00:25:17,995
sort of work and they will go and test whether or not the law

404
00:25:17,995 --> 00:25:20,899
is being followed. We've done that recently with

405
00:25:20,899 --> 00:25:24,569
our predictions market cases. You may have seen we had under

406
00:25:24,569 --> 00:25:26,638
cover investigators open up accounts on those prediction

407
00:25:26,638 --> 00:25:29,307
markets to test whether they are operating in new york and

408
00:25:29,307 --> 00:25:32,844
allowing people to engage in illegal gambling.

409
00:25:32,844 --> 00:25:38,249
similarly, we could do that here and test to do enforcement work.

410
00:25:38,249 --> 00:25:40,718
>> okay. So, in your opinion, how

411
00:25:40,718 --> 00:25:44,455
frequently should the price cap need to be re-evaluated for

412
00:25:44,455 --> 00:25:47,158
inflation? >> the beauty of a price cap

413
00:25:47,158 --> 00:25:50,461
that is tied to the similar prices that are charged -- I'm

414
00:25:50,461 --> 00:25:53,931
not suggesting we go out and decide how much the price of a

415
00:25:53,931 --> 00:25:55,400
beer is. I don't think you should do

416
00:25:55,400 --> 00:25:58,200
that. I don't think the people in the

417
00:25:58,200 --> 00:26:00,672
legislature are well equipped to do that.

418
00:26:00,672 --> 00:26:05,710
what you can do is say, if you're a venue and offering food

419
00:26:05,710 --> 00:26:09,481
and other services for sale, they have to be priced in a

420
00:26:09,481 --> 00:26:12,517
manner that is similar to the prices that are being offered in

421
00:26:12,517 --> 00:26:14,886
the immediate vicinity of the venue.

422
00:26:14,886 --> 00:26:17,555
so, that's what the port authority does today.

423
00:26:17,555 --> 00:26:23,762
they allow you to say prices that are similar to prices sold

424
00:26:23,762 --> 00:26:28,333
outside of the airport plus, you know, I think it's a 12% cap,

425
00:26:28,333 --> 00:26:30,869
maybe plus 3% surcharge. I forgot the number right at

426
00:26:30,869 --> 00:26:33,370
this moment. They keep increasing it.

427
00:26:33,370 --> 00:26:36,775
we would suggest that number needs to be much lower.

428
00:26:36,775 --> 00:26:42,713
but, in any case, the idea would be you don't have to tie it to

429
00:26:42,713 --> 00:26:47,786
inflation because it's naturally tied to inflation because as the

430
00:26:47,786 --> 00:26:50,321
prices outside of the venue go up, the prices inside would go

431
00:26:50,321 --> 00:26:54,521
up in a similar fashion. >> thank you.

432
00:27:00,265 --> 00:27:03,134
>> thank you, sir. Appreciate your testimony.

433
00:27:03,134 --> 00:27:08,406
so, just in regards to -- and follow-up on enforcement-wise.

434
00:27:08,406 --> 00:27:12,210
if these bills were to become law or something similar,

435
00:27:12,210 --> 00:27:16,815
through the ag's office number of investigators that could go

436
00:27:16,815 --> 00:27:20,485
out and invest gate these issues that are going on whether we're

437
00:27:20,485 --> 00:27:24,850
talking about sports stadiums, thruway stops.

438
00:27:25,890 --> 00:27:28,526
if a bill were to go through, there is a lot to be

439
00:27:28,526 --> 00:27:30,628
investigated, a lot to keep an eye on.

440
00:27:30,628 --> 00:27:33,564
do you know how many investigators that the ag's

441
00:27:33,564 --> 00:27:35,299
office have that could be out doing this?

442
00:27:35,299 --> 00:27:41,380
>> as several folks up here know, I will always ask for more

443
00:27:41,380 --> 00:27:42,974
resources for the attorney general's office if you're

444
00:27:42,974 --> 00:27:46,177
willing to provide them to us. I would say two things.

445
00:27:46,177 --> 00:27:48,113
one, we have dozens of investigators.

446
00:27:48,113 --> 00:27:51,849
is that enough to do the work that would be presented here?

447
00:27:51,849 --> 00:27:54,252
absolutely not. They also have of other things

448
00:27:54,252 --> 00:27:56,187
they are investigating on a regular base.

449
00:27:56,187 --> 00:28:01,580
but most of the enforcement work we do doesn't come out of their

450
00:28:01,580 --> 00:28:05,630
undercover investigative work. Most of the enforcement work we

451
00:28:05,630 --> 00:28:09,670
do comes because ordinary consumers complain to us and

452
00:28:09,670 --> 00:28:12,536
they identify problems and we enforce the law.

453
00:28:12,536 --> 00:28:15,272
and I would expect that that's how this would happen here

454
00:28:15,272 --> 00:28:16,741
predominantly as well. >> okay.

455
00:28:16,741 --> 00:28:21,412
and then speaking specifically about the spac issue, live

456
00:28:21,412 --> 00:28:24,315
nation, like the lawn chair issue.

457
00:28:24,315 --> 00:28:29,954
you said that has gone to court. Jury found them guilty of having

458
00:28:29,954 --> 00:28:33,624
a monopoly and now you're waiting for the next step for a

459
00:28:33,624 --> 00:28:36,494
judge to make some type of decision, correct?

460
00:28:36,494 --> 00:28:38,430
>> sure. The way this case worked was

461
00:28:38,430 --> 00:28:44,602
there was a trial on liability but they split off the remedies

462
00:28:44,602 --> 00:28:48,573
phase. So, we want a lie built -- won a

463
00:28:48,573 --> 00:28:51,909
liability that happened in the spring and the wheels of judges

464
00:28:51,909 --> 00:28:54,445
are slow at the federal level in particular.

465
00:28:54,445 --> 00:28:58,850
-- wheels of justice. We're waiting on decisions on

466
00:28:58,850 --> 00:29:03,988
post-trial briefs and we expect that we'll do a second trial

467
00:29:03,988 --> 00:29:08,426
just on remedies some time in the january-february time

468
00:29:08,426 --> 00:29:08,992
period. >> okay.

469
00:29:08,992 --> 00:29:13,731
and a case like that was brought by complaints?

470
00:29:13,731 --> 00:29:17,935
driven complaints by consumers? And that's not each a

471
00:29:17,935 --> 00:29:22,135
publicly-funded stadium. Spaz a 501(c)3 or something.

472
00:29:24,208 --> 00:29:27,812
so do you foresee, if a complaint-driven investigations

473
00:29:27,812 --> 00:29:34,412
are done through the ag's office when it comes to publicly-funded

474
00:29:35,860 --> 00:29:37,955
stadiums, rest areas, airports, the same issue when it comes to

475
00:29:37,955 --> 00:29:41,559
a remedy -- we're talking about a lot of port court.

476
00:29:41,559 --> 00:29:45,759
a lot of court situations or trials.

477
00:29:45,830 --> 00:29:47,765
what do you foresee with the investigation process and what

478
00:29:47,765 --> 00:29:51,703
you're seeing with the spac issue being timeline for

479
00:29:51,703 --> 00:29:53,938
remedies when it comes to that many issues?

480
00:29:53,938 --> 00:29:57,994
>> so I want to be clear. The live nation case is a bigger

481
00:29:57,994 --> 00:30:00,929
case than spac and not about -- the lawnchairs --

482
00:30:00,929 --> 00:30:04,660
>> I know it's not about spac specifically.

483
00:30:04,660 --> 00:30:07,636
>> to put it in context, that's a national case we brought where

484
00:30:07,636 --> 00:30:10,806
we led a group of 33 state attorneys general from around

485
00:30:10,806 --> 00:30:15,144
the country in one courtroom to bring a case on a national

486
00:30:15,144 --> 00:30:19,344
level. We worked with the department of

487
00:30:20,283 --> 00:30:22,818
justice but nay backed away at the final moment and decided

488
00:30:22,818 --> 00:30:25,855
they were not going to litigate that case and left us to do it

489
00:30:25,855 --> 00:30:29,725
on our own. But, in any case, that case is

490
00:30:29,725 --> 00:30:34,525
about live nation's monopoly across then use, across

491
00:30:38,330 --> 00:30:40,170
production, across ticketing as well.

492
00:30:40,170 --> 00:30:42,304
and it's a much, much bigger case.

493
00:30:42,304 --> 00:30:45,740
I wouldn't expect these cases to take that long at all.

494
00:30:45,740 --> 00:30:48,478
these are much more straightforward enforcement

495
00:30:48,478 --> 00:30:52,848
matters where we would have some evidence of whatever prices are

496
00:30:52,848 --> 00:30:55,517
being charged at the particular venue.

497
00:30:55,517 --> 00:30:59,189
we would do some analysis of what prices are being charged

498
00:30:59,189 --> 00:31:04,460
outside of the venue. And we would compare those two

499
00:31:04,460 --> 00:31:08,730
things and if they were not -- if the prices inside the venue

500
00:31:08,730 --> 00:31:13,235
were much higher than the prices outside of the venue for the

501
00:31:13,235 --> 00:31:16,939
same good or service, then I think that's a pretty simple

502
00:31:16,939 --> 00:31:20,276
complaint to bring to a judge and we would expect that to move

503
00:31:20,276 --> 00:31:23,680
much more quickly. The remedies there would be a

504
00:31:23,680 --> 00:31:24,947
combination of restitution and penalties.

505
00:31:24,947 --> 00:31:28,617
so we would try to get money back for the consumers who were

506
00:31:28,617 --> 00:31:33,556
over charged and we would also then seek penalties for that

507
00:31:33,556 --> 00:31:38,270
whatever violation, not just the cost of doing business for the

508
00:31:38,270 --> 00:31:40,270
company. >> thank you.

509
00:31:42,310 --> 00:31:44,967
>> thank you. So using the example, going back

510
00:31:44,967 --> 00:31:49,939
to the issue of monopoly. In a hypothetical world I create

511
00:31:49,939 --> 00:31:53,977
a professional sports team. Jensen's joker professional

512
00:31:53,977 --> 00:31:59,214
cricket and I build a tax payer-funded 2700 seat cricket

513
00:31:59,214 --> 00:32:02,251
arena. And then, there is businesses

514
00:32:02,251 --> 00:32:06,451
that sell concessions outside of the stadium.

515
00:32:06,789 --> 00:32:10,193
I contract with a third party vendor to provide concessions

516
00:32:10,193 --> 00:32:14,393
within my stadium. Paid for by taxpayers.

517
00:32:14,931 --> 00:32:19,334
then the third party company buys up either directly or to

518
00:32:19,334 --> 00:32:23,534
contract with the surrounding vendors, surrounding independent

519
00:32:24,140 --> 00:32:26,540
businesses. Would that constitute

520
00:32:28,100 --> 00:32:32,348
monopolistic action under what is current law state and

521
00:32:32,348 --> 00:32:36,548
federally? >> it would depend on a number

522
00:32:37,553 --> 00:32:41,753
of facts. It's possible that they have

523
00:32:41,957 --> 00:32:49,157
created a monopoly in that local market for a particular set of

524
00:32:49,765 --> 00:32:53,965
goods or services. Ordinarily mergers are evaluated

525
00:32:55,505 --> 00:33:00,910
as -- so you could evaluate it either -- presumably there are

526
00:33:00,910 --> 00:33:03,179
multiple venues outside of the stadium.

527
00:33:03,179 --> 00:33:07,516
there could be one or a dozen of them, assuming there is a dozen,

528
00:33:07,516 --> 00:33:10,253
if they bought one, presumably there are 11 others out there

529
00:33:10,253 --> 00:33:15,653
and that probably wouldn't constitute a monopoly or a

530
00:33:19,528 --> 00:33:21,396
significant reduction in competition.

531
00:33:21,396 --> 00:33:24,996
that's a consequence of the merger.

532
00:33:25,667 --> 00:33:26,870
I would not expect that to be a problem.

533
00:33:26,870 --> 00:33:29,539
if they bought up all 12 of them, that might be a problem.

534
00:33:29,539 --> 00:33:32,174
and that might be something we would take a look at as a

535
00:33:32,174 --> 00:33:33,342
competition. >> the reason I ask that

536
00:33:33,342 --> 00:33:37,547
question, is when you look at something like city field or

537
00:33:37,547 --> 00:33:41,170
yankeyy stadium, and then you look at the new high mark

538
00:33:41,170 --> 00:33:43,419
stadium and other facilities that are in other parts of the

539
00:33:43,419 --> 00:33:47,289
state, they're not in densely-commercial zones where

540
00:33:47,289 --> 00:33:53,289
you may not have within a one-mile radius similar items

541
00:33:54,363 --> 00:33:57,966
being sold. We talk about a loaded hotdog.

542
00:33:57,966 --> 00:34:05,166
you might not have an qualcomm pair so to set a price.

543
00:34:05,541 --> 00:34:12,381
if this were to become law, how would the ag's office determine

544
00:34:12,381 --> 00:34:16,520
whether or not the price being charged for one item is

545
00:34:16,520 --> 00:34:20,890
appropriate with the street price when there might not be a

546
00:34:20,890 --> 00:34:24,259
direct equivalent within the same geographic area.

547
00:34:24,259 --> 00:34:26,195
>> we deal with that type of issue.

548
00:34:26,195 --> 00:34:28,464
the price gouging law is a good example of that.

549
00:34:28,464 --> 00:34:32,134
it doesn't necessarily have to be the immediate vicinity.

550
00:34:32,134 --> 00:34:36,272
but, you would look to the outside world to try to find a

551
00:34:36,272 --> 00:34:39,609
relevant comparator. And it may not be perfect but

552
00:34:39,609 --> 00:34:44,409
you could make some judgments based on it.

553
00:34:45,140 --> 00:34:49,651
and so, maybe it's 5 miles away or 10 miles away and maybe the

554
00:34:49,651 --> 00:34:52,388
other side would argue that's not a relevant comparator

555
00:34:52,388 --> 00:34:53,622
because the market is different there.

556
00:34:53,622 --> 00:34:57,693
that's the type of thing you would work out in litigation as

557
00:34:57,693 --> 00:35:01,530
to whether or not -- if the law says it's a similar price to a

558
00:35:01,530 --> 00:35:06,101
similar good and service in a similar area, that's a fact

559
00:35:06,101 --> 00:35:08,437
question that would be worked out through the litigation

560
00:35:08,437 --> 00:35:10,639
process. And you probably have an expert

561
00:35:10,639 --> 00:35:15,310
on one side who would say, this area is economically similar for

562
00:35:15,310 --> 00:35:18,847
the following reasons. Or it's dissimilar but only

563
00:35:18,847 --> 00:35:22,184
dissimilar in a certain way that you should adjust the price by

564
00:35:22,184 --> 00:35:25,784
5%. And that would make it an

565
00:35:25,988 --> 00:35:27,456
economically-relevant comparator.

566
00:35:27,456 --> 00:35:30,926
>> so your subject matter expertise, instead of doing a

567
00:35:30,926 --> 00:35:36,326
set distance metric, have broad language about similar economic

568
00:35:37,667 --> 00:35:41,803
conditions within a certain parameter rather than a strict

569
00:35:41,803 --> 00:35:42,938
distance marker in. >> correct.

570
00:35:42,938 --> 00:35:47,876
that's how the port authority general reg is drafted that way

571
00:35:47,876 --> 00:35:49,879
now. To say similar price in a

572
00:35:49,879 --> 00:35:53,349
similar area within the new york new jersey metropolitan area.

573
00:35:53,349 --> 00:35:57,190
so it doesn't limit it to just having to be an exact replica.

574
00:35:57,190 --> 00:36:01,123
if there is an exact one, for example, the starbuck's example,

575
00:36:01,123 --> 00:36:05,928
if there is a starbuck's store right outside of the venue and

576
00:36:05,928 --> 00:36:08,831
the starbuck's inside the venue and they are charging wildly

577
00:36:08,831 --> 00:36:11,167
different prices, that's an easy case.

578
00:36:11,167 --> 00:36:14,903
there may be a harder case that is a couple of steps removed

579
00:36:14,903 --> 00:36:17,973
from that. But that's the process we go

580
00:36:17,973 --> 00:36:21,977
through in investigating and putting up expert witnesses.

581
00:36:21,977 --> 00:36:26,777
>> is the ag's office responsible for the enforcement

582
00:36:27,116 --> 00:36:29,317
of mta? >> we are not other than

583
00:36:29,317 --> 00:36:32,288
indirectly. We have broad authority to

584
00:36:32,288 --> 00:36:36,659
enforce the law under executive law 6312, which allows us to

585
00:36:36,659 --> 00:36:40,859
bring an action for any repeated illegality.

586
00:36:41,897 --> 00:36:46,100
if we became aware that there were repeated violations of the

587
00:36:46,100 --> 00:36:49,538
obligations, we would probably -- something we would

588
00:36:49,538 --> 00:36:51,400
look into. I don't have facts in front of

589
00:36:51,400 --> 00:36:55,343
me today to suggest there are. Although a --

590
00:36:55,343 --> 00:37:00,820
>> my diet coke I bought a couple of months ago.

591
00:37:00,820 --> 00:37:02,482
thank you. >> thank you.

592
00:37:07,757 --> 00:37:10,559
>> good morning and thank you for coming here today.

593
00:37:10,559 --> 00:37:14,163
I appreciate this topic, certainly we have an

594
00:37:14,163 --> 00:37:17,566
affordability issue in these venues and they aren't escaping

595
00:37:17,566 --> 00:37:20,903
that issue. When I see the numbers for a

596
00:37:20,903 --> 00:37:26,508
family of 4, to go to a bill's game, not that I would josh --

597
00:37:26,508 --> 00:37:29,712
2100 dollars. I have a family of 6 and it

598
00:37:29,712 --> 00:37:33,115
would be cost prohibitive. After we talk about sports

599
00:37:33,115 --> 00:37:38,515
venues and concert venues and possible broad way-type venues

600
00:37:38,720 --> 00:37:41,256
and airports. Are there any other arenas that

601
00:37:41,256 --> 00:37:44,600
you think that would be applicable here where people's

602
00:37:44,600 --> 00:37:48,464
feet can't do their shopping for them and they're stuck so they

603
00:37:48,464 --> 00:37:51,266
have to pay higher-than normal prices?

604
00:37:51,266 --> 00:37:54,337
>> I didn't catch the full list you said --

605
00:37:54,337 --> 00:37:58,474
>> we talked about sports arenas and broad way-type theatrical

606
00:37:58,474 --> 00:38:00,874
productions, music productions, airports.

607
00:38:05,548 --> 00:38:08,217
roadside rest stops. Any other venues you think would

608
00:38:08,217 --> 00:38:10,119
be applicable where we're talking about these price

609
00:38:10,119 --> 00:38:11,754
issues? >> those are the big categories

610
00:38:11,754 --> 00:38:15,157
we had in mind. I would say we can go back and

611
00:38:15,157 --> 00:38:20,329
take a closer look and make sure there is not some category that

612
00:38:20,329 --> 00:38:23,233
we're missing. But I don't have any others to

613
00:38:23,233 --> 00:38:25,434
mention. >> have you seen other states

614
00:38:25,434 --> 00:38:29,638
take charge on this issue? I know there are paperwork here

615
00:38:29,638 --> 00:38:31,706
referencing something in salt lake city and portland.

616
00:38:31,706 --> 00:38:35,377
are there other states that you see as taking the looed this

617
00:38:35,377 --> 00:38:37,120
issue? Or would we be the ones to take

618
00:38:37,120 --> 00:38:39,214
the lead on it? >> I think this would be a place

619
00:38:39,214 --> 00:38:41,183
where new york is leading. I'm not aware.

620
00:38:41,183 --> 00:38:45,254
we can go back and confirm that but my understanding is that

621
00:38:45,254 --> 00:38:50,258
this would be at the state level the first bill of its kind if it

622
00:38:50,258 --> 00:38:53,729
were to tackle this. Especially if it's broad enough

623
00:38:53,729 --> 00:38:57,966
to cover not just public venues but all venues.

624
00:38:57,966 --> 00:39:02,671
I think that would certainly be the first-of-its-kind.

625
00:39:02,671 --> 00:39:05,700
>> thank you. I think something needs to be

626
00:39:05,700 --> 00:39:06,542
done. And I would appreciate any input

627
00:39:06,542 --> 00:39:11,342
as we go along the process. >> thank you.

628
00:39:11,881 --> 00:39:15,417
>> I want to build on mr. Carroll's question here.

629
00:39:15,417 --> 00:39:21,230
I know some of us are old enough, most of us here are old

630
00:39:21,230 --> 00:39:23,426
enough to remember woodstock in rome.

631
00:39:23,426 --> 00:39:28,226
that was a 3-day event that ended spectacularly.

632
00:39:29,764 --> 00:39:38,164
are those type of events that's not on a -- it was on a

633
00:39:39,174 --> 00:39:42,677
public-owned air force base, or airport.

634
00:39:42,677 --> 00:39:48,677
but that's not a venue that's operating every season, every

635
00:39:49,818 --> 00:39:52,721
day. In those venues, the price

636
00:39:52,721 --> 00:39:56,591
gouging or whatever, is extreme for that event.

637
00:39:56,591 --> 00:40:03,432
but there is no -- in any of our discussions, would there be a

638
00:40:03,432 --> 00:40:08,203
requirement for the venue organizers to follow a certain

639
00:40:08,203 --> 00:40:14,803
type of regulation on the 10 mile radius and things like t

640
00:40:15,770 --> 00:40:17,770
that? >> indthe question.

641
00:40:17,145 --> 00:40:19,414
so it's not a venue that operates on some regular basis

642
00:40:19,414 --> 00:40:23,850
but it's a one-time -- [ multiple speakers ]

643
00:40:23,850 --> 00:40:26,685
>> one-time thing that is set up.

644
00:40:28,357 --> 00:40:30,425
woodstock set up on an old air force base.

645
00:40:30,425 --> 00:40:35,330
>> I would say that has not been the focus of our attention and

646
00:40:35,330 --> 00:40:37,732
testimony here. But I don't immediately see any

647
00:40:37,732 --> 00:40:39,903
reason why you couldn't cover that type of a festival.

648
00:40:39,903 --> 00:40:44,390
you have to get the definitions right and I don't think anyone

649
00:40:44,390 --> 00:40:49,440
wants to cover somebody's backyard wedding, but I think if

650
00:40:49,440 --> 00:40:53,581
you're otherwise -- if you get the definitions right --

651
00:40:53,581 --> 00:40:55,517
>> two 250,000 people were there too.

652
00:40:55,517 --> 00:41:00,656
>> I was being a little silly. But yes, I think your point is a

653
00:41:00,656 --> 00:41:04,860
good one and worth thinking about how how cover that kind of

654
00:41:04,860 --> 00:41:08,430
event because I would imagine the gouging is just as

655
00:41:08,430 --> 00:41:11,800
outrageous if not more so. >> thank you.

656
00:41:11,800 --> 00:41:15,370
>> I want to point out to mr. Miller, I don't think any

657
00:41:15,370 --> 00:41:20,475
of us remember the history of the first woodstock, maybe

658
00:41:20,475 --> 00:41:22,875
woodstock 99. Just quick question.

659
00:41:25,346 --> 00:41:28,384
I preface this with I'm not an attorney or lawyer.

660
00:41:28,384 --> 00:41:32,187
I don't make the laws. When we're dealing with a lot of

661
00:41:32,187 --> 00:41:36,987
these third party vendors that have concession agreements

662
00:41:38,293 --> 00:41:40,963
across the country or internationally, is there any

663
00:41:40,963 --> 00:41:44,990
concern that there could be a question -- one of the things

664
00:41:44,990 --> 00:41:47,903
whenever we talk about price caps or mandating certain

665
00:41:47,903 --> 00:41:51,400
ingredients or products, one of the points that always comes up

666
00:41:51,400 --> 00:41:55,778
on debate is this could be a violation of the commerce clause

667
00:41:55,778 --> 00:41:59,514
and impact interstate commerce. Because you have some of these

668
00:41:59,514 --> 00:42:02,851
companies even though they may be headquartered in new york,

669
00:42:02,851 --> 00:42:04,719
they do business across the country.

670
00:42:04,719 --> 00:42:09,258
is there a concern that passing this law could be in violation

671
00:42:09,258 --> 00:42:12,260
of federal law regarding interstate commerce?

672
00:42:12,260 --> 00:42:16,332
>> I think if you're not treating in-state businesses

673
00:42:16,332 --> 00:42:21,169
differently than out of state business businesses -- out of

674
00:42:21,169 --> 00:42:24,730
state businesses, I don't see the problem.

675
00:42:24,730 --> 00:42:27,676
our price gouging laws regulate pricing under abnormal market

676
00:42:27,676 --> 00:42:29,945
conditions. Those have survived challenges

677
00:42:29,945 --> 00:42:33,816
under the commerce clause. I don't want see any reason --

678
00:42:33,816 --> 00:42:38,200
as long as we're not regulating prices outside of the state or

679
00:42:38,200 --> 00:42:42,220
treating new york state businesses differently than

680
00:42:42,490 --> 00:42:45,293
in-state businesses, there shouldn't be a problem.

681
00:42:45,293 --> 00:42:50,930
>> thank you very much. I apologize mr. Miller.

682
00:42:52,340 --> 00:42:58,634
>> okay, thank you very much mr.panel number 2 is a hybrid.

683
00:43:06,115 --> 00:43:10,915
we have mr. Charles bell from consumer reports.

684
00:43:13,756 --> 00:43:18,556
brian hess, executive director of sports fans coalition.

685
00:43:18,594 --> 00:43:22,664
and I think virtually we have emily divito, the senior advisor

686
00:43:22,664 --> 00:43:26,264
for economic policy for groundwork collaborative.

687
00:43:27,869 --> 00:43:34,469
so again, you'll each have 5 minutes to walk us through your

688
00:43:35,677 --> 00:43:38,130
testimony. I'll remind my colleagues if

689
00:43:38,130 --> 00:43:41,950
you're asking emily a question, there is a little bit of a

690
00:43:41,950 --> 00:43:46,150
delay. Just make sure it's pointed to

691
00:43:49,291 --> 00:43:52,291
her. >> charles bell from consumer

692
00:43:53,495 --> 00:43:55,230
reports. I was going to suggest that

693
00:43:55,230 --> 00:44:00,169
emily go first because their organization issued a great

694
00:44:00,169 --> 00:44:03,105
report. >> emily would you like to go

695
00:44:03,105 --> 00:44:03,972
first? >> I'm happy to.

696
00:44:03,972 --> 00:44:09,972
thank you very much. Chair rozic and members of the

697
00:44:10,578 --> 00:44:12,614
committee, thank you for the opportunity to testify today.

698
00:44:12,614 --> 00:44:16,785
my name is emily divito and I'm the senior advisor for economic

699
00:44:16,785 --> 00:44:18,787
policy at groundwork collaborative.

700
00:44:18,787 --> 00:44:21,957
an economic policy think tank in washington, d.c.

701
00:44:21,957 --> 00:44:26,600
I am here to urge the committee to implement a strict street

702
00:44:26,600 --> 00:44:29,264
pricing standard, a straightforward, popular and

703
00:44:29,264 --> 00:44:35,400
proven fix for the price gouging at captive audiences face at

704
00:44:35,400 --> 00:44:36,605
publicly funded venues across new york.

705
00:44:36,605 --> 00:44:41,810
as the committee's hearing notice makes clear, new yorkers

706
00:44:41,810 --> 00:44:47,210
reply on venues and facilities like state parks, beaches,

707
00:44:47,416 --> 00:44:51,185
airports, state center for recreation, travel and community

708
00:44:51,185 --> 00:44:53,955
life. Once inside they may become a

709
00:44:53,955 --> 00:44:55,824
captive audience barred from bringing their own food and

710
00:44:55,824 --> 00:44:57,892
drink. They have no real alternative

711
00:44:57,892 --> 00:44:59,762
but to pay whatever price is posted.

712
00:44:59,762 --> 00:45:02,831
last year, my organization groundwork collaborative,

713
00:45:02,831 --> 00:45:06,435
released a report titled, shake down at the snack counter.

714
00:45:06,435 --> 00:45:10,972
outlining the economic case for implementing a straight pricing

715
00:45:10,972 --> 00:45:15,176
policy, one that insures vendors inside publicly funded venues

716
00:45:15,176 --> 00:45:18,380
like sports stadiums and airports, charge prices no

717
00:45:18,380 --> 00:45:21,717
higher than comparable goods sold just outside.

718
00:45:21,717 --> 00:45:25,954
some airports, including new york's 3 major ones already

719
00:45:25,954 --> 00:45:29,857
claim to have street pricing in place.

720
00:45:29,857 --> 00:45:33,461
under so-called street pricing plus policies that allow markups

721
00:45:33,461 --> 00:45:37,610
of 15% or more with little enforcement.

722
00:45:38,320 --> 00:45:40,402
recent travelers paid 7 dollars for a bottle of water, 36

723
00:45:40,402 --> 00:45:45,802
dollars for a burrito. And though some large sports

724
00:45:47,143 --> 00:45:51,880
stadiums have begun fan pricing men you items, none have

725
00:45:51,880 --> 00:45:56,150
policies in place. They are all a benefit from

726
00:45:56,150 --> 00:45:58,386
public since deese of some kind. New yorkers do not have to look

727
00:45:58,386 --> 00:46:01,890
far to see the scale of this problem.

728
00:46:01,890 --> 00:46:05,626
a family attending a rangers game could spend nearly worn00

729
00:46:05,626 --> 00:46:12,226
dollars on a beer, a soda and two specialty hotdogs -- 100

730
00:46:12,233 --> 00:46:15,310
dollars. At the buffalo bills new 2.2

731
00:46:15,310 --> 00:46:20,110
billion dollar high mark stadium, 850 million dollars of

732
00:46:20,248 --> 00:46:23,785
which funded by taxpayers, fans can expect to pay up to 14

733
00:46:23,785 --> 00:46:28,322
dollars for a beer, over 15 dollars for chicken fingers or a

734
00:46:28,322 --> 00:46:31,922
plain cheeseburger. A 2026 analysis found attending

735
00:46:32,794 --> 00:46:37,532
a bills game will run a family of 4 over 2100 dollars.

736
00:46:37,532 --> 00:46:42,870
the most expensive in the nfl and more than 700 dollars above

737
00:46:42,870 --> 00:46:45,273
the league average. Street pricing is not just fair,

738
00:46:45,273 --> 00:46:49,944
it's good business. Airports and portland and salt

739
00:46:49,944 --> 00:46:54,150
lake city reported travelers spending more money in shops

740
00:46:54,150 --> 00:46:55,951
since instituting straight street pricing.

741
00:46:55,951 --> 00:47:00,210
they find people spend more freely when they don't feel like

742
00:47:00,210 --> 00:47:03,558
they're being gouged. After atlanta's mercedes-benz

743
00:47:03,558 --> 00:47:07,863
stadium adopted a fan-first pricing model in 2017, cutting

744
00:47:07,863 --> 00:47:11,463
concession prices dramatically, they reported considerably

745
00:47:11,633 --> 00:47:15,103
higher vendor sales. 30% increase in over all

746
00:47:15,103 --> 00:47:17,839
transactions. A 20% increase in merchandise

747
00:47:17,839 --> 00:47:20,308
sales. And a 20% increase in the number

748
00:47:20,308 --> 00:47:25,708
of items per transaction. These policies are also popular.

749
00:47:26,848 --> 00:47:31,648
accident exclusive pole found that 73% of voters, including 78

750
00:47:33,121 --> 00:47:36,991
independence and 76% republicans support policies that restrict

751
00:47:36,991 --> 00:47:41,191
vendors for overcharging at venues receiving subsidies.

752
00:47:41,329 --> 00:47:44,499
establishing street pricing as a consistent standard for vendors

753
00:47:44,499 --> 00:47:47,736
across publicly funded venues and facilities statewide, this

754
00:47:47,736 --> 00:47:51,606
committee can help ensure that public investment translates

755
00:47:51,606 --> 00:47:55,811
into public benefit, not a captive market for price

756
00:47:55,811 --> 00:47:57,110
gouging. We would welcome the opportunity

757
00:47:57,110 --> 00:48:00,715
to work with the committee and its staff to tackle this

758
00:48:00,715 --> 00:48:06,115
important issue and I'm happy to answer any questions.

759
00:48:10,910 --> 00:48:12,593
>> thank you very much. Good morning.

760
00:48:12,593 --> 00:48:17,332
I'm programs director for consumer reports based in

761
00:48:17,332 --> 00:48:18,833
yonkers. We're a national organization

762
00:48:18,833 --> 00:48:22,571
and I worked in particular on issues related to junk fees,

763
00:48:22,571 --> 00:48:26,974
supported the enactment of ftc junk fees rule.

764
00:48:26,974 --> 00:48:29,444
I support the new york junk fee prevention act.

765
00:48:29,444 --> 00:48:34,844
supported a similar regulation in massachusetts now in effect,

766
00:48:37,919 --> 00:48:41,990
and I'm new to this issue but I was very impressed by the

767
00:48:41,990 --> 00:48:44,692
groundwork collaborative report, shake down at the snack counter.

768
00:48:44,692 --> 00:48:47,996
and I think it has a lot of important information.

769
00:48:47,996 --> 00:48:50,832
as consumers, we're disbursed in the marketplace.

770
00:48:50,832 --> 00:48:53,902
we don't have strong trade associations to advocate for

771
00:48:53,902 --> 00:48:58,406
new york consumers statewide. And people tend to experience

772
00:48:58,406 --> 00:49:00,943
this problem of high priced concessions one by one.

773
00:49:00,943 --> 00:49:06,148
I don't think they necessarily realize it's a very pervasive

774
00:49:06,148 --> 00:49:08,517
problem at stadiums throughout the country.

775
00:49:08,517 --> 00:49:12,220
so, I think also people experience it as a financial

776
00:49:12,220 --> 00:49:13,555
gotch ya, similar to adjourning fees.

777
00:49:13,555 --> 00:49:16,491
they feel like the merchant is trying to get something over on

778
00:49:16,491 --> 00:49:20,691
them. They know they can't vote with

779
00:49:20,929 --> 00:49:23,331
their feet. Why do the concessions charge

780
00:49:23,331 --> 00:49:26,568
higher prices? Because they can get away with

781
00:49:26,568 --> 00:49:30,238
it. And so I think people, as the

782
00:49:30,238 --> 00:49:34,242
groundwork poll indicates, it would be very enthusiastic about

783
00:49:34,242 --> 00:49:37,846
seeing the public sector step in and create some fairground rules

784
00:49:37,846 --> 00:49:41,983
for this space. So, I was really pleased to hear

785
00:49:41,983 --> 00:49:44,920
the remarks of the deputy attorney general and I think we

786
00:49:44,920 --> 00:49:48,723
would expect to work with their office in support of

787
00:49:48,723 --> 00:49:50,892
legislation. We haven't taken a position on

788
00:49:50,892 --> 00:49:54,280
the particular bill that's been introduced, but we think it

789
00:49:54,280 --> 00:49:57,733
creates an excellent platform for public debate and

790
00:49:57,733 --> 00:49:59,734
discussion. I think it would be helpful for

791
00:49:59,734 --> 00:50:04,206
a state agency or maybe a legislator to post prices at the

792
00:50:04,206 --> 00:50:06,808
stadiums throughout the state to get a sense of what the markups

793
00:50:06,808 --> 00:50:09,210
are. I think if consumers could see

794
00:50:09,210 --> 00:50:12,614
them clearly -- a lot of times the vendors are not posting on

795
00:50:12,614 --> 00:50:14,883
their website. The problem is hidden away from

796
00:50:14,883 --> 00:50:17,180
the public a little bit. And I don't think that

797
00:50:17,180 --> 00:50:20,880
necessarily it will be easy to enact the law because I expect

798
00:50:20,880 --> 00:50:24,959
that the interest that represent the stayed why ums and the

799
00:50:24,959 --> 00:50:28,362
venues and the concession ears will try to push back against

800
00:50:28,362 --> 00:50:30,297
this. So we want to have the consumers

801
00:50:30,297 --> 00:50:35,571
and the public on our side if you go forward.

802
00:50:35,571 --> 00:50:39,173
I was going to say that in the context of the larger

803
00:50:39,173 --> 00:50:44,573
affordability crisis, the median income in new york is 89,500.

804
00:50:45,179 --> 00:50:48,116
half income is above and half below.

805
00:50:48,116 --> 00:50:52,253
the united way reported that about 48% of new yorkers are

806
00:50:52,253 --> 00:50:55,122
living paycheck to paycheck. And don't have enough money to

807
00:50:55,122 --> 00:50:59,922
make ends meet. So that's 15% in poverty and 34%

808
00:51:00,195 --> 00:51:02,620
above poverty struggling to pay their bills.

809
00:51:02,620 --> 00:51:06,669
so consumers experience the affordability problem in the

810
00:51:06,669 --> 00:51:09,370
aggregates. Like we have all these other

811
00:51:09,370 --> 00:51:11,506
increasing bills for groceries, utilities, insurance and so

812
00:51:11,506 --> 00:51:15,944
forth, and this is one more thing that is piling on.

813
00:51:15,944 --> 00:51:21,549
I wanted to call attention to the junk fee question.

814
00:51:21,549 --> 00:51:24,819
the port authority of new york and new jersey has a 3% service

815
00:51:24,819 --> 00:51:30,492
charge that they tack on -- I think to pay for personnel at

816
00:51:30,492 --> 00:51:31,626
the airports and other facilities.

817
00:51:31,626 --> 00:51:34,328
but consumers will experience that as a partitioned price.

818
00:51:34,328 --> 00:51:37,565
they will pick out their food items from the men you and then

819
00:51:37,565 --> 00:51:40,368
they'll get that surcharge at the end of the transaction.

820
00:51:40,368 --> 00:51:44,638
that's an example of something we don't like and don't support.

821
00:51:44,638 --> 00:51:47,442
the ftc junk fee rule only applies to ticket pricing,

822
00:51:47,442 --> 00:51:50,545
hotels and short term rentals. Recently they were going to make

823
00:51:50,545 --> 00:51:52,847
it broader but they have not done that.

824
00:51:52,847 --> 00:51:58,320
high mark stadium has a similar 6% county surcharge that applies

825
00:51:58,320 --> 00:52:03,720
to parking, concessions, merchandise and food sold at the

826
00:52:03,891 --> 00:52:05,590
stadium. And there have been complaints

827
00:52:05,590 --> 00:52:08,730
in the media from consumers who feel like that's a lot to ask on

828
00:52:08,730 --> 00:52:11,199
top of these already high prices.

829
00:52:11,199 --> 00:52:15,136
so, for those reasons, we hope that the junk fee legislation

830
00:52:15,136 --> 00:52:19,341
could move forward. Another issue I wanted to

831
00:52:19,341 --> 00:52:23,878
highlight is, as the shake down at the snack counter mentions,

832
00:52:23,878 --> 00:52:26,948
some venues will permit people to bring in their own food and

833
00:52:26,948 --> 00:52:29,884
water. So that gives you some, a

834
00:52:29,884 --> 00:52:33,220
partial remedy to being locked into the stadium and not being

835
00:52:33,220 --> 00:52:36,925
able to vote with your feet. But a number of stadiums where

836
00:52:36,925 --> 00:52:41,229
drinking water and refilling stations don't work and in this

837
00:52:41,229 --> 00:52:45,166
case of high mark, there was a report about you can -- they

838
00:52:45,166 --> 00:52:49,404
have a refilling station but you're not permitted to bring a

839
00:52:49,404 --> 00:52:52,907
bottle into the stadium. You can buy a plastic water

840
00:52:52,907 --> 00:52:56,111
bottle and empty it out and refill it for whatever the going

841
00:52:56,111 --> 00:52:59,280
rate was, which I think was inflated, it was high.

842
00:52:59,280 --> 00:53:03,184
and I have been in state parks like jones beach before where

843
00:53:03,184 --> 00:53:06,421
drinking water fountains are not working on a 100 degree day and

844
00:53:06,421 --> 00:53:10,925
your only option is to buy a bottle of water at the

845
00:53:10,925 --> 00:53:13,528
concession stand. We should hold ourselves to a

846
00:53:13,528 --> 00:53:17,866
higher standard and make water and refilling stations widely

847
00:53:17,866 --> 00:53:22,804
available in the stadiums, arenas and also in state parks.

848
00:53:22,804 --> 00:53:25,140
so, thank you again for investigating the issue and we

849
00:53:25,140 --> 00:53:26,941
look forward to working with you.

850
00:53:26,941 --> 00:53:31,800
I think it's really important consumers really care about it.

851
00:53:31,800 --> 00:53:36,985
thank you for taking it up. >> thank you for the opportunity

852
00:53:36,985 --> 00:53:39,487
to speak today about concession pricing in new york.

853
00:53:39,487 --> 00:53:45,360
my name is brian hess, executive director of sports fans

854
00:53:45,360 --> 00:53:50,160
coalition that fights for the rights of fans.

855
00:53:51,198 --> 00:53:54,702
advocating for consumer protections and working towards

856
00:53:54,702 --> 00:53:59,600
pay equality, we represent the fan wherever public policy

857
00:53:59,600 --> 00:54:03,778
impacts the games we love. Almost everyone in the room has

858
00:54:03,778 --> 00:54:06,748
a memory of the kids face when they catch their first powell

859
00:54:06,748 --> 00:54:09,884
ball and for me it was the fourth inning that we would do

860
00:54:09,884 --> 00:54:13,988
when we went to a ball game. Those moments are how teams turn

861
00:54:13,988 --> 00:54:17,959
kids into lifelong fans. But for a growing number of

862
00:54:17,959 --> 00:54:20,862
new yorkers, that first game is not happening.

863
00:54:20,862 --> 00:54:23,310
the ticket isn't always what stops them.

864
00:54:23,310 --> 00:54:26,468
it's everything after the gate. A family of 4 spends close to

865
00:54:26,468 --> 00:54:28,636
400 dollars for a game at yankee stadium.

866
00:54:28,636 --> 00:54:32,140
and that's a week's worth of groceries.

867
00:54:32,140 --> 00:54:37,450
even arthur blank, owner of the falcons admitted a two dollar

868
00:54:37,450 --> 00:54:39,800
hotdog shouldn't become 7 the moment you walk through

869
00:54:39,800 --> 00:54:41,951
security. In new york it has and the

870
00:54:41,951 --> 00:54:43,351
stadiums that the taxpayers built.

871
00:54:43,351 --> 00:54:46,200
new yorkers pay some of the highest concession prices in

872
00:54:46,200 --> 00:54:48,224
professional sports and paying them in the buildings their own

873
00:54:48,224 --> 00:54:52,360
tax dollars constructed. Almost every major league in

874
00:54:52,360 --> 00:54:55,296
new york benefits from public supports and the fans will

875
00:54:55,296 --> 00:54:58,566
always pay steep prices. Measured against nearby retail

876
00:54:58,566 --> 00:55:03,972
prices nearly every soda and hotdog we reviewed at the major

877
00:55:03,972 --> 00:55:07,341
venues would fail the fair concession pricing act.

878
00:55:07,341 --> 00:55:12,780
high mark stadium sells the most expensive hotdog for 11.63 even

879
00:55:12,780 --> 00:55:18,119
though taxpayers put 850 million towards the bill's noo you home.

880
00:55:18,119 --> 00:55:21,122
madison square garden receives 42 million in tax breaks and

881
00:55:21,122 --> 00:55:25,126
still charges ragers fans 16 dollars for a beer.

882
00:55:25,126 --> 00:55:29,330
75% more than the median pint. Bar place center received 260

883
00:55:29,330 --> 00:55:34,202
million in direct city and 78 state funding but charged 8

884
00:55:34,202 --> 00:55:36,710
dollars for popcorn. If you want to enjoy the game

885
00:55:36,710 --> 00:55:41,942
with a beer, it costs nearly double what a local bar charges.

886
00:55:41,942 --> 00:55:47,382
ubs arena leases the land and spent 68 million on related

887
00:55:47,382 --> 00:55:50,180
projects. 15 dollars for a beer, 7 for a

888
00:55:50,180 --> 00:55:53,955
soda and 8 for a hotdog. Despite estimated 234 million

889
00:55:53,955 --> 00:55:59,226
dollars in public subsidies, city field charges 17.29 for a

890
00:55:59,226 --> 00:56:03,364
24 ounce coarse light that costs 3.19 at the nearby 7-eleven.

891
00:56:03,364 --> 00:56:08,164
and yankee stadium where was 528 million in subsidies.

892
00:56:11,973 --> 00:56:15,543
a hotdog cost 7.39 once you go through the gate.

893
00:56:15,543 --> 00:56:18,913
how did it get this way? First it's impossible to ignore

894
00:56:18,913 --> 00:56:22,650
the impact monopolies and consolidated markets have on the

895
00:56:22,650 --> 00:56:27,450
live event ecosystem. Every major sports league enjoys

896
00:56:29,891 --> 00:56:30,925
antitrust exemption while fleecing fans.

897
00:56:30,925 --> 00:56:34,329
stadium and team owners use a consolidated food distribution

898
00:56:34,329 --> 00:56:37,598
chain which leads to higher prices and less options for fans

899
00:56:37,598 --> 00:56:40,334
and everyone's favorite monopoly, live nation ticket

900
00:56:40,334 --> 00:56:44,405
master, gets in on the action by only selling liquid death water

901
00:56:44,405 --> 00:56:47,875
at venues they operate because they have a equity steak in the

902
00:56:47,875 --> 00:56:49,143
brand. These companies take advantage

903
00:56:49,143 --> 00:56:53,614
of the fact that once a fan enter the arena, they become the

904
00:56:53,614 --> 00:56:57,151
perfect target for prices that would never survive competition

905
00:56:57,151 --> 00:57:00,254
on the outside. This lacks any justification.

906
00:57:00,254 --> 00:57:03,691
it simply represents greed. One fan said it best, when you

907
00:57:03,691 --> 00:57:07,562
need a law to stop someone from charging 18 dollars for a beer,

908
00:57:07,562 --> 00:57:12,332
that is not a pricing problem. That's a monopoly wearing a

909
00:57:12,332 --> 00:57:14,535
jersey. The good news is there is an

910
00:57:14,535 --> 00:57:17,104
easy solution that benefits fans and business.

911
00:57:17,104 --> 00:57:20,908
in 2017, the falcons voluntarily introduced the fan first pricing

912
00:57:20,908 --> 00:57:25,708
model at mercedes-benz to provide fans affordable options.

913
00:57:26,514 --> 00:57:31,519
two dollar hotdog, 5 dollar beer and fans were happier but

914
00:57:31,519 --> 00:57:33,988
business improved. Thousands more fans entered the

915
00:57:33,988 --> 00:57:36,991
stadium earlier, which reduced congestion and increased

916
00:57:36,991 --> 00:57:39,794
revenues for concession and merchandise sales.

917
00:57:39,794 --> 00:57:42,696
new yorkers deserve this fan first pricing policy.

918
00:57:42,696 --> 00:57:46,000
we encourage you to pass legislation that creates these

919
00:57:46,000 --> 00:57:49,937
menus as concession stands especially at the ones that

920
00:57:49,937 --> 00:57:52,206
receive taxpayer benefits. Thank you and I'm happy to

921
00:57:52,206 --> 00:57:54,800
answer any questions. >> thank you very much.

922
00:57:54,800 --> 00:57:59,279
my first question is, probably for you, brine, or for you,

923
00:57:59,279 --> 00:58:01,949
emily. Because you both mentioned the

924
00:58:01,949 --> 00:58:06,149
atlanta falcons. So, they have fan-first pricing

925
00:58:08,522 --> 00:58:13,322
allotted across the country. We heard about it.

926
00:58:15,195 --> 00:58:19,330
give us more context how they reached that decision.

927
00:58:19,330 --> 00:58:22,703
also why is it is that more than 10 years later no other stadium

928
00:58:22,703 --> 00:58:27,108
has followed suit? You say that it's so profitable

929
00:58:27,108 --> 00:58:33,470
in terms of additional sales. Yet we're not seeing any

930
00:58:33,470 --> 00:58:38,519
osmoseis in terms of or copycat situations in other stadiums.

931
00:58:38,519 --> 00:58:41,519
>> that's a great question, chair.

932
00:58:41,655 --> 00:58:44,258
I don't know why they voluntarily chose to do that.

933
00:58:44,258 --> 00:58:48,429
I know they received some public suns deese and it may have been

934
00:58:48,429 --> 00:58:51,799
a concession they were willing to make to -- subsidies -- I

935
00:58:51,799 --> 00:58:55,669
don't know for sure. But it seems it has really

936
00:58:55,669 --> 00:58:56,937
worked. And why it hasn't spread through

937
00:58:56,937 --> 00:59:02,344
the rest of the nfl at the very least s beyond me.

938
00:59:02,344 --> 00:59:06,814
I belive the stat was they increased sales by 16%, which

939
00:59:06,814 --> 00:59:09,884
would think that every team owner would love for an easy way

940
00:59:09,884 --> 00:59:13,520
to increase sales by that number and increasing fan satisfaction.

941
00:59:13,520 --> 00:59:17,425
it seems like a no-brainer. The only reason I suspect, like

942
00:59:17,425 --> 00:59:22,225
I said, greed. They like the 30 team owners,

943
00:59:22,964 --> 00:59:26,567
they like the status quo and they like what they can do.

944
00:59:26,567 --> 00:59:29,170
and they like that control. And they really need to be told

945
00:59:29,170 --> 00:59:31,973
from the lawmakers that they have to start doing this.

946
00:59:31,973 --> 00:59:35,543
>> and emily, my question is for you.

947
00:59:35,543 --> 00:59:39,743
have other states looked at street pricing?

948
00:59:40,114 --> 00:59:41,783
similarity pending legislation out there?

949
00:59:41,783 --> 00:59:48,255
are we the only ones? What's the lay of the land?

950
00:59:48,255 --> 00:59:54,129
>> so, brian is correct it has not taken off across stadiums

951
00:59:54,129 --> 00:59:58,329
nationwide. But, many more teams and sports

952
00:59:58,332 --> 01:00:02,236
venues adopted miniversions of what the falcons are doing.

953
01:00:02,236 --> 01:00:08,810
so they will have a fan menu on certain nights for games like

954
01:00:08,810 --> 01:00:12,513
tuesdays, or just a select number of concessions that are

955
01:00:12,513 --> 01:00:17,850
marked down. And so, I think you do see some

956
01:00:17,850 --> 01:00:20,621
areas moving in the right direction, but we would argue

957
01:00:20,621 --> 01:00:24,910
that as long as this is voluntary, it's not going to

958
01:00:24,910 --> 01:00:27,695
capture the full range of the problem.

959
01:00:27,695 --> 01:00:33,333
and in a lot of instances, stadiums still want to be able

960
01:00:33,333 --> 01:00:38,840
to charge high prices for those higher margin luxury or

961
01:00:38,840 --> 01:00:42,510
specialty items. And are willing to take the hit

962
01:00:42,510 --> 01:00:48,382
and seem like they're serving fans on some of the more popular

963
01:00:48,382 --> 01:00:53,182
hotdogs, coax, popcorn. And so, across airports there

964
01:00:53,855 --> 01:00:56,725
are street pricing policies in place.

965
01:00:56,725 --> 01:01:01,962
these are typically set by the local transit authorities and

966
01:01:01,962 --> 01:01:06,600
not legislation, per se. But, to my knowledge, there is

967
01:01:06,600 --> 01:01:12,730
no such legislation pending that would cover the range of venues

968
01:01:12,730 --> 01:01:13,974
that new york is considering cover.

969
01:01:13,974 --> 01:01:17,145
so I think this is a really great opportunity for new york

970
01:01:17,145 --> 01:01:21,480
to lead the charge and sort of set the tone of what should be

971
01:01:21,480 --> 01:01:25,848
expected across other areas. >> if I may add.

972
01:01:27,222 --> 01:01:32,159
there was a bill in colorado last year that did not go very

973
01:01:32,159 --> 01:01:33,961
far. It got a lot of opposition from

974
01:01:33,961 --> 01:01:39,232
the local venues, from concert halls, theaters, to the major

975
01:01:39,232 --> 01:01:42,637
sports teams. So that bill did not advance.

976
01:01:42,637 --> 01:01:47,410
to the is my hope it comes back. I would hope that similar bilges

977
01:01:47,410 --> 01:01:48,975
come back and we can work together on them.

978
01:01:48,975 --> 01:01:53,314
the other thing that I want to emphasize emily said about some

979
01:01:53,314 --> 01:01:56,651
teams adopting a fan-friendly menu on a specific night.

980
01:01:56,651 --> 01:02:01,989
one of the other ways they get around it is only putting in in

981
01:02:01,989 --> 01:02:04,591
one location in the stadium n some cases it's not each the

982
01:02:04,591 --> 01:02:07,461
location where the family is probably buying the affordable

983
01:02:07,461 --> 01:02:09,530
tickets. It's probably on level 1 when

984
01:02:09,530 --> 01:02:14,468
the person who needs that menu is probably on level 3 in the

985
01:02:14,468 --> 01:02:16,871
nose bleeds. So we need to make sure that any

986
01:02:16,871 --> 01:02:19,407
time, if we're doing this legislation, it needs to apply

987
01:02:19,407 --> 01:02:23,810
to the entire stadium and that the fan-friendly menus are

988
01:02:23,810 --> 01:02:26,480
available at every concession stand.

989
01:02:26,480 --> 01:02:31,180
>> I would agree. I was at city field, and they

990
01:02:31,180 --> 01:02:35,556
have affordable meals for children but I had to show the

991
01:02:35,556 --> 01:02:38,641
child that I was with. I couldn't leave them back at

992
01:02:38,641 --> 01:02:42,845
their seats. I had to actually proof of

993
01:02:42,845 --> 01:02:47,450
purchase it. Proof of child for purchase.

994
01:02:51,654 --> 01:02:54,657
>> thank you, everybody. Just a couple of quick

995
01:02:54,657 --> 01:02:57,600
questions. Really more how you foresee this

996
01:02:57,600 --> 01:03:01,531
and looking up some information. So when it comes to the atlanta

997
01:03:01,531 --> 01:03:04,868
falcons and the way they are running the concessions there,

998
01:03:04,868 --> 01:03:09,872
it seems that the falcons are really in charge of the

999
01:03:09,872 --> 01:03:13,209
concessions themselves. It's not an outside group.

1000
01:03:13,209 --> 01:03:19,209
so what I see, and believe me, I dig it.

1001
01:03:20,583 --> 01:03:23,620
the price is ridiculous. I'm not against doing this.

1002
01:03:23,620 --> 01:03:27,570
I want to see what your thoughts are on how we can do this when

1003
01:03:27,570 --> 01:03:30,827
it's really a lot of times it's outside concession companies

1004
01:03:30,827 --> 01:03:36,299
that are coming in getting a contract, and then the owner of

1005
01:03:36,299 --> 01:03:39,769
the stadium or whomever is running the stadium is stepping

1006
01:03:39,769 --> 01:03:43,172
out saying, you're giving us x amount of dollars per year to

1007
01:03:43,172 --> 01:03:46,910
run in our stadium. You charge what you can.

1008
01:03:46,910 --> 01:03:52,181
so how do you foresee that being able to be done?

1009
01:03:52,181 --> 01:03:56,353
because now you're only limiting what they can charge also.

1010
01:03:56,353 --> 01:03:57,320
those concessions from coming in.

1011
01:03:57,320 --> 01:04:01,925
you can say you can only charge 5 dollars for a hotdog but you

1012
01:04:01,925 --> 01:04:04,260
also can't make me pay you $10 millions for the right to have

1013
01:04:04,260 --> 01:04:07,730
the concessions in your stadium. Don't you foresee that there is

1014
01:04:07,730 --> 01:04:10,800
issues that are going to go down the line when it comes to

1015
01:04:10,800 --> 01:04:16,800
pricing on all levels? >> I wanted to bring out one

1016
01:04:16,940 --> 01:04:18,742
point. Yes, I mean I think these

1017
01:04:18,742 --> 01:04:22,912
contracts are complicated and they have a range of different

1018
01:04:22,912 --> 01:04:25,480
business models. So one thing I learned about

1019
01:04:25,480 --> 01:04:30,448
atlanta, in 2023, they received 9% of the food and concession

1020
01:04:35,225 --> 01:04:36,359
sales,. And I think that goes to the

1021
01:04:36,359 --> 01:04:40,997
point that a public entity or a quasi- government authority

1022
01:04:40,997 --> 01:04:44,100
could structure a contract to either benefit -- they may be

1023
01:04:44,100 --> 01:04:46,803
benefiting from a revenue share from inflated prices.

1024
01:04:46,803 --> 01:04:51,440
and so, do we really want the public, the government, to be

1025
01:04:51,440 --> 01:04:56,240
engaging and encouraging inflated prices versus using its

1026
01:04:56,713 --> 01:04:58,681
influenzas purchases power to keep prices low?

1027
01:04:58,681 --> 01:05:05,281
but other places -- using its influence -- the venue is

1028
01:05:06,550 --> 01:05:09,326
running up the price and using it as a back-end profit center,

1029
01:05:09,326 --> 01:05:12,328
I think this is a good question for mr. D'angelo.

1030
01:05:12,328 --> 01:05:17,133
I think they probably have an idea of how they could approach

1031
01:05:17,133 --> 01:05:19,635
this, because it gets into the weeds really quickly.

1032
01:05:19,635 --> 01:05:23,472
>> and I would only add that it probably is a case-by-case

1033
01:05:23,472 --> 01:05:25,474
basis. And if arthur blank has the

1034
01:05:25,474 --> 01:05:30,747
significant control over the distribution that he does, he is

1035
01:05:30,747 --> 01:05:34,484
doing something benevolent. If you look at our example with

1036
01:05:34,484 --> 01:05:38,684
live nation, mr. D'angelo talked about lawnchairs.

1037
01:05:38,888 --> 01:05:42,858
they only sell liquid death water at inflated price.

1038
01:05:42,858 --> 01:05:47,658
you can't go and buyauk quafina or disani.

1039
01:05:48,498 --> 01:05:52,202
so whomever has that control over concessions, in a

1040
01:05:52,202 --> 01:05:54,904
consolidated market, which most are, then you would have the

1041
01:05:54,904 --> 01:05:58,541
ability to just dictate price, which means you can dictate

1042
01:05:58,541 --> 01:06:01,444
lower. If we are saying a hotdog is a

1043
01:06:01,444 --> 01:06:05,248
hotdog, they are providing that at a profitable price for street

1044
01:06:05,248 --> 01:06:11,248
cart vennors and for the local restaurant down the block.

1045
01:06:11,388 --> 01:06:14,557
that hotdog should only cost what it ends up costing.

1046
01:06:14,557 --> 01:06:19,357
anything above that is inflation for monopoly rents.

1047
01:06:21,865 --> 01:06:24,265
>> thank you. Mr. Jensen.

1048
01:06:24,667 --> 01:06:29,467
>> thank you. I have questions for miss a

1049
01:06:31,407 --> 01:06:33,943
defrancisco. In the studies that groundwork

1050
01:06:33,943 --> 01:06:39,820
collaborative have done -- diveto -- do we know how much on

1051
01:06:39,820 --> 01:06:43,220
average a portion of the revenue that a professional sports

1052
01:06:43,220 --> 01:06:47,423
franchise makes that can be attributed to concession sales?

1053
01:06:47,423 --> 01:06:53,423
or the contracts they have with the third party vendors?

1054
01:06:53,963 --> 01:06:57,967
they've given discretion to sell those concessions to?

1055
01:06:57,967 --> 01:07:02,237
>> yes, so, we don't totally know because this information is

1056
01:07:02,237 --> 01:07:05,475
not centralized in any one place.

1057
01:07:05,475 --> 01:07:11,180
there was some legislation in this congress to do an ftc-led

1058
01:07:11,180 --> 01:07:15,980
study on concession prices nationwide that would have

1059
01:07:16,119 --> 01:07:18,855
provide someday clarity to those questions.

1060
01:07:18,855 --> 01:07:25,728
but, my understanding is that on the whole, food tends to be a

1061
01:07:25,728 --> 01:07:29,928
lower proportion of overall revenue for stadiums.

1062
01:07:29,965 --> 01:07:33,902
much more comes from merchandise and a lot comes from ticket

1063
01:07:33,902 --> 01:07:38,841
sales and all of the fees tacked on to those.

1064
01:07:38,841 --> 01:07:45,441
but food is actually an area where it's been reported that

1065
01:07:46,830 --> 01:07:51,220
stadiums can afford so to speak, to lower prices for consumers.

1066
01:07:51,220 --> 01:07:58,420
we see that coming out of the atlanta experience and some of

1067
01:07:59,161 --> 01:08:03,299
the other stadiums who have led the charge on reducing prices

1068
01:08:03,299 --> 01:08:08,304
for concessions, have sort of come out and said, this is not a

1069
01:08:08,304 --> 01:08:14,444
concern for our bottom line. And so I think that's suggestive

1070
01:08:14,444 --> 01:08:15,845
of an however all good direction to trend.

1071
01:08:15,845 --> 01:08:19,915
>> and then have you seen in the research that you've done -- I

1072
01:08:19,915 --> 01:08:22,985
know the topic of the legislation that is being

1073
01:08:22,985 --> 01:08:27,189
considered in this legislature and probably next year, is that

1074
01:08:27,189 --> 01:08:32,729
it's using the government funding to build the stadium as

1075
01:08:32,729 --> 01:08:36,198
the qualifier. But is there a difference

1076
01:08:36,198 --> 01:08:41,337
between the pricing models you seen in facilities that are

1077
01:08:41,337 --> 01:08:45,875
privately owned and then work into the concession agreements

1078
01:08:45,875 --> 01:08:49,978
versus ones that are actually owned by the municipality or the

1079
01:08:49,978 --> 01:08:55,952
state, county, city, what have you; and then lease the facility

1080
01:08:55,952 --> 01:09:00,752
to the professional sports organization, and then either

1081
01:09:00,890 --> 01:09:05,294
the municipality or franchise then has the third party come in

1082
01:09:05,294 --> 01:09:08,300
as subcontractor to do concessions.

1083
01:09:08,300 --> 01:09:14,630
>> yes, so we argue that what constitutes a public subsidy for

1084
01:09:15,304 --> 01:09:18,875
scoping legislation like this should be as broad as possible.

1085
01:09:18,875 --> 01:09:23,846
so, it's not always the case that a development project is

1086
01:09:23,846 --> 01:09:28,840
receiving just like a check or a grant direct subsidy.

1087
01:09:28,840 --> 01:09:32,722
but they often receive public benefit in the form of tax

1088
01:09:32,722 --> 01:09:36,922
abbatements, other economic development incentives, tax free

1089
01:09:37,326 --> 01:09:40,926
bond issuance, other public financing mechanisms.

1090
01:09:41,640 --> 01:09:47,640
we argue that those should be defined and trigger policies

1091
01:09:48,738 --> 01:09:52,742
like street pricing. So I think that captures a lot

1092
01:09:52,742 --> 01:09:58,214
of the venues that would o. There face, seem to be entirely

1093
01:09:58,214 --> 01:10:00,416
privately-held. It's often not the case that

1094
01:10:00,416 --> 01:10:04,253
they have not received any kind of public subsidy.

1095
01:10:04,253 --> 01:10:09,292
to your question about other sort of mechanisms, there has

1096
01:10:09,292 --> 01:10:14,920
been some movement at the case-by-case basis for

1097
01:10:16,399 --> 01:10:21,304
localities to include provisions like this into community benefit

1098
01:10:21,304 --> 01:10:26,104
agreements as they negotiate redevelopment deals with teams

1099
01:10:26,242 --> 01:10:29,446
and stadiums. I know that brian works a lot on

1100
01:10:29,446 --> 01:10:34,616
that for the rfk stadium redevelopment deal in dc.

1101
01:10:34,616 --> 01:10:36,786
many of those have been unsuccessful.

1102
01:10:36,786 --> 01:10:43,386
but I think they have provided a good opportunity for action

1103
01:10:43,459 --> 01:10:46,195
outside of the traditional legislative process.

1104
01:10:46,195 --> 01:10:48,998
all of the same problems would remain.

1105
01:10:48,998 --> 01:10:53,770
we would need strict enforcement but that is one model that we

1106
01:10:53,770 --> 01:10:59,275
see in local areas really start to try to utilize.

1107
01:10:59,275 --> 01:11:04,750
>> if it's okay -- if you don't mind.

1108
01:11:06,150 --> 01:11:12,615
mr. Hess, so, emily talked about -- certainly because a lot

1109
01:11:16,359 --> 01:11:20,697
of our major professional sports teams, they won't build new

1110
01:11:20,697 --> 01:11:23,433
stadiums any time soon. So where is the chicago bears,

1111
01:11:23,433 --> 01:11:27,970
could have negotiated that with east chicago in indiana or

1112
01:11:27,970 --> 01:11:32,308
kansas city with the chiefs, or rfk with the commanders, what

1113
01:11:32,308 --> 01:11:37,708
would be the opportunity, I guess, for communities to

1114
01:11:39,470 --> 01:11:42,452
negotiate that in terms of new york development or

1115
01:11:42,452 --> 01:11:44,852
renovations of existing stadiums?

1116
01:11:45,187 --> 01:11:49,892
>> that's a great question. In a lot of cases, every 20

1117
01:11:49,892 --> 01:11:53,796
years or so, the team comes knocking on the local city and

1118
01:11:53,796 --> 01:11:59,268
the state legislators and say, it's time to get a new

1119
01:11:59,268 --> 01:12:01,670
jumbotron, renovations. We need to be a state-of-the-art

1120
01:12:01,670 --> 01:12:03,872
venue. And more often than not, the

1121
01:12:03,872 --> 01:12:07,676
economic development that they promised has not even come close

1122
01:12:07,676 --> 01:12:11,947
to what the tax dollars the first time ever were.

1123
01:12:11,947 --> 01:12:14,150
and so now but they're going to leave.

1124
01:12:14,150 --> 01:12:17,953
they say they threaten to leave and two of new york's teams are

1125
01:12:17,953 --> 01:12:19,955
in new jersey. And they'll say, we're going to

1126
01:12:19,955 --> 01:12:23,760
go across to the meadow lands next if you don't pay up and

1127
01:12:23,760 --> 01:12:30,360
help us renovate this stadium. Those would be the levers of

1128
01:12:30,433 --> 01:12:35,704
opportunity for the local governments to say, okay, fine,

1129
01:12:35,704 --> 01:12:39,108
if you want 500 million dollars for whatever, then you need to

1130
01:12:39,108 --> 01:12:41,911
create these fan-first concession pricing.

1131
01:12:41,911 --> 01:12:44,313
frankly, I would want more in that list.

1132
01:12:44,313 --> 01:12:47,116
I would want discounts on tickets for the taxpayers.

1133
01:12:47,116 --> 01:12:50,119
I would want to make sure that every game that's played in

1134
01:12:50,119 --> 01:12:52,921
there is available to local taxpayers for free, at least

1135
01:12:52,921 --> 01:12:57,126
over the air on broadcast, if not through some kind of

1136
01:12:57,126 --> 01:12:59,995
streaming platform. Because these stadiums keep

1137
01:12:59,995 --> 01:13:04,195
building them. And then to your earlier

1138
01:13:04,800 --> 01:13:07,737
question about the economics of it all, most of the money these

1139
01:13:07,737 --> 01:13:10,673
teams make are in television contracts.

1140
01:13:10,673 --> 01:13:13,809
concession sales while important and they grow year-over-year,

1141
01:13:13,809 --> 01:13:17,947
are pocket change to most of these teams compared to the t

1142
01:13:17,947 --> 01:13:21,217
t.v. Contract. They can afford to make it a

1143
01:13:21,217 --> 01:13:23,190
fan-friendly experience and it will get more people in the

1144
01:13:23,190 --> 01:13:25,621
door, which means the game will be more exciting and the

1145
01:13:25,621 --> 01:13:27,222
television will be more exciting at home.

1146
01:13:27,222 --> 01:13:33,620
>> so building on that, when you look at the yankees, the

1147
01:13:33,620 --> 01:13:37,966
rangers, they are going to be beneficiaries from massive t.v.

1148
01:13:37,966 --> 01:13:40,268
contracts. You look at minor professional

1149
01:13:40,268 --> 01:13:43,305
sports, which we have a lot of in new york, they are not paying

1150
01:13:43,305 --> 01:13:47,309
out the same amount in player contracts and player salaries,

1151
01:13:47,309 --> 01:13:51,647
they also aren't getting revenue sharing and television

1152
01:13:51,647 --> 01:13:55,450
contracts. So is there a concern that by

1153
01:13:55,450 --> 01:13:58,788
instituting street pricing in lowering their ability to raise

1154
01:13:58,788 --> 01:14:03,525
revenue through concessions, it could jeopardize the economic

1155
01:14:03,525 --> 01:14:07,290
viability of minor professional sports in new york?

1156
01:14:07,290 --> 01:14:10,800
>> I don't know what the economics of the minor leagues

1157
01:14:10,800 --> 01:14:12,668
here are. And that will probably be a team

1158
01:14:12,668 --> 01:14:16,472
by team question. I know from my work with

1159
01:14:16,472 --> 01:14:19,740
mr. Bell from ticket sales that significantly marked up

1160
01:14:19,740 --> 01:14:25,740
food and concession pricing is a main revenue generator for

1161
01:14:25,547 --> 01:14:27,830
venues. And that's a significant part of

1162
01:14:27,830 --> 01:14:30,619
their bottom line. They need those inflates prices

1163
01:14:30,619 --> 01:14:34,890
to keep doors open. Frankly to me, there is a

1164
01:14:34,890 --> 01:14:37,993
million other ways and part of that problem is also live nation

1165
01:14:37,993 --> 01:14:42,998
and the monopoly that ag james is breaking up right now.

1166
01:14:42,998 --> 01:14:44,566
so there is some questions around that.

1167
01:14:44,566 --> 01:14:48,570
I would want to look at the specific teams and see, but

1168
01:14:48,570 --> 01:14:53,370
nothing that the street pricing is preventing profit.

1169
01:14:53,976 --> 01:14:57,913
and at the same time if you look at the falcons model as

1170
01:14:57,913 --> 01:15:01,985
increasing sales by 16%, maybe now that minor league baseball

1171
01:15:01,985 --> 01:15:05,253
team will attract more local fans to come out for family

1172
01:15:05,253 --> 01:15:07,255
days. I mean, personally, I think

1173
01:15:07,255 --> 01:15:11,260
minor league baseball is more enjoyable than major baseball,

1174
01:15:11,260 --> 01:15:15,460
because the fan experience is more family-friendly

1175
01:15:15,931 --> 01:15:18,467
environment. You might see that become more

1176
01:15:18,467 --> 01:15:20,469
accessible. And that could actually improve

1177
01:15:20,469 --> 01:15:24,669
the numbers for those teams. >> thank you.

1178
01:15:29,544 --> 01:15:31,280
>> good morning. Great to see you all and

1179
01:15:31,280 --> 01:15:34,484
familiar faces. Thank you for your comments on

1180
01:15:34,484 --> 01:15:35,451
the new york adjourning fee prevention act.

1181
01:15:35,451 --> 01:15:42,250
hopefully we can get that done. So, in terms of the -- let me

1182
01:15:42,250 --> 01:15:45,160
backtrack. I found it interesting your

1183
01:15:45,160 --> 01:15:47,896
comment on collecting information and data on how much

1184
01:15:47,896 --> 01:15:50,366
the city is spending on concessions.

1185
01:15:50,366 --> 01:15:54,103
are there any states that mandate any type of reporting on

1186
01:15:54,103 --> 01:15:59,508
the revenue that's flowing in and out of the city from -- or

1187
01:15:59,508 --> 01:16:01,176
state, from stadiums and concessions?

1188
01:16:01,176 --> 01:16:02,712
how are you collecting this data?

1189
01:16:02,712 --> 01:16:06,912
maybe the state can learn from that.

1190
01:16:07,383 --> 01:16:11,583
>> I'm unaware. >> so, for airports, there is

1191
01:16:12,922 --> 01:16:16,625
the clearest reporting structure, though it is somewhat

1192
01:16:16,625 --> 01:16:21,197
spotty region to region. And the port authority for

1193
01:16:21,197 --> 01:16:26,597
instance, has pretty good reports on the financial flows

1194
01:16:27,203 --> 01:16:30,940
through airports. I'm not aware of any for

1195
01:16:30,940 --> 01:16:33,809
stadiums. I don't believe it's mandated in

1196
01:16:33,809 --> 01:16:38,900
any instance. There might be more information

1197
01:16:38,810 --> 01:16:40,482
out there than I have been able to track.

1198
01:16:40,482 --> 01:16:45,882
the problem is that it's an incredibly segmented market,

1199
01:16:46,355 --> 01:16:51,293
obviously, so have some kind of repository for this information,

1200
01:16:51,293 --> 01:16:55,297
even just basic numbers and answers to questions would be

1201
01:16:55,297 --> 01:16:59,368
helpful for diagnosing this problem more acutely.

1202
01:16:59,368 --> 01:17:03,572
but from the evidence we've been able to gather so far, I haven't

1203
01:17:03,572 --> 01:17:06,241
seen anything that would provide what you're looking for.

1204
01:17:06,241 --> 01:17:07,910
>> okay. So I guess despite the fact that

1205
01:17:07,910 --> 01:17:12,110
the states are providing taxpayer benefit, we're

1206
01:17:12,581 --> 01:17:15,318
partially funding and we get no reporting on what's going into

1207
01:17:15,318 --> 01:17:19,188
the city or the state? Okay, that's helpful.

1208
01:17:19,188 --> 01:17:23,525
the street price plus models, are there any concerns that some

1209
01:17:23,525 --> 01:17:27,196
of the concession operators might try to gamify the system?

1210
01:17:27,196 --> 01:17:33,196
so for example, a mcdodged hamburger versus a shake shack

1211
01:17:33,402 --> 01:17:35,271
hamburger. How would this pricing model

1212
01:17:35,271 --> 01:17:38,871
work? Are you concerned about it?

1213
01:17:38,874 --> 01:17:44,480
and any language you think might be helpful to stop that.

1214
01:17:44,480 --> 01:17:49,985
>> I do share -- why I like the falcons model is it limits the

1215
01:17:49,985 --> 01:17:53,956
gameification that can happen. If I recall, I think they had

1216
01:17:53,956 --> 01:17:57,930
chicken fingers with a scoop of caviar on top.

1217
01:17:57,930 --> 01:18:03,298
how would you street price that? I guarantee you no venue around

1218
01:18:03,298 --> 01:18:07,703
yankee stadium is selling that. So, you might end up seeing some

1219
01:18:07,703 --> 01:18:11,706
of those kinds of weird games that vendors can play inside.

1220
01:18:11,706 --> 01:18:17,646
if you have a menu that says, you need to serve a hotdog, a

1221
01:18:17,646 --> 01:18:23,852
soda, a pretzel and a domestic beer for a basic menu for the

1222
01:18:23,852 --> 01:18:25,987
street price. And you let the teams -- because

1223
01:18:25,987 --> 01:18:30,580
some fans do like the innovative food specialty options.

1224
01:18:30,580 --> 01:18:34,796
I have gone to mlb foodest and that's always a blast.

1225
01:18:34,796 --> 01:18:39,101
so you don't want to get rid of that opportunity for fans if

1226
01:18:39,101 --> 01:18:41,404
they're willing to pay inflated price.

1227
01:18:41,404 --> 01:18:43,405
but to be able to have that option.

1228
01:18:43,405 --> 01:18:47,410
I know this hotdog will be 3 bucks or this domestic beer will

1229
01:18:47,410 --> 01:18:51,947
be 5 and that I think would be the right model.

1230
01:18:51,947 --> 01:18:58,547
just require a certain base menu have those street price levels.

1231
01:19:01,226 --> 01:19:04,826
>> thank you. >> thank you very much.

1232
01:19:07,900 --> 01:19:10,803
this kolb includes today's hearing on fair concession

1233
01:19:10,803 --> 01:19:12,305
pricing. -- this concludes -- thank you

1234
01:19:12,305 --> 01:19:15,674
very much to my colleagues who were in attendance today and

1235
01:19:15,674 --> 01:19:18,740
thanks to our witnesses.