[26:44] out where 10 acre tracts pieces
[26:45] of property where you want to
[26:48] put your well that goes to
[26:50] public notice and once that goes
[26:51] to public notice that's kind of
[26:54] a legally binding document that
[26:56] says you have a 10 acre track
[26:59] here that you're legally able to
[27:00] put a well. So now the well
[27:03] driller goes in they put in the
[27:04] permit number and they say
[27:06] here's a latitude longitude that
[27:08] I want to drill a well for this
[27:10] permit. we checked to see if
[27:11] that is in the same
[27:12] location as where you went to
[27:14] notice if it's not we tell the
[27:16] well driller there needs to be
[27:18] an amendment on this permit and
[27:19] it needs to go back out to
[27:20] notice generally
[27:25] for one more follow up on that
[27:28] if we're specifying a 10 acre
[27:29] block
[27:30] and they don't feel like there's
[27:31] water in that 10 acre block.
[27:34] before they drilled it so we had
[27:36] to totally start over if we're
[27:38] going to move over to an
[27:39] adjacent 10 acres if you
[27:40] specifically said that 10 acre
[27:43] tract that is correct. You can
[27:44] fill out your application that
[27:45] says hey you know
[27:46] I have
[27:51] 2000 acres. I don't know where I
[27:52] want to put my well. I want to
[27:55] go to notice on my whole block
[27:57] of land and that would bypass
[27:58] that and you would allow you'd
[28:00] have to notify more people but
[28:01] that would allow you to put it
[28:02] wherever you wanted to you're
[28:03] welcome
[28:14] we have again we have domestic
[28:18] wells again if you're putting in
[28:20] a a pub a irrigation or
[28:21] public water supply well there's
[28:23] well spacing for each aquifer
[28:26] that you are required to be set
[28:27] back from and that's generally
[28:30] 1320 acre feet for groundwater
[28:34] wells and660 feet for alluvium
[28:37] wells so if you come in and
[28:39] drill a well and you have a
[28:40] house that's next door and it's
[28:44] within500 feet you have a right
[28:46] to kind of to protest that and
[28:48] make sure that the irrigation or
[28:50] public water supply well or
[28:51] whatever well is outside that
[28:51] well spacing
[28:58] Any other questions
[29:06] Again this is an example of what
[29:08] we kind of get is this accurate?
[29:10] is there overuse going on we
[29:11] don't know there's insufficient
[29:13] data and this shows a permit
[29:17] for213.3 acre feet per year and
[29:19] they've written in I think
[29:20] 181,82 acre feet
[29:24] is that gallons did they really
[29:26] mean acre feet this is for Stint
[29:28] Louisuttility Company. Does
[29:30] anyone know where the small town
[29:32] of Saint Louis is I don't think
[29:33] that they used 181,000 acre feet
[29:37] so we do get these and
[29:39] historically we just haven't had
[29:40] time to you know give Stint
[29:41] Louis a call and say are you
[29:41] really using this amount?
[29:44] I think over the next couple of
[29:47] years we're going to have an
[29:48] online water use reporting
[29:50] database and that's going to
[29:52] catch a lot of these errors so
[29:54] if you were to ask me how much
[29:56] water use we used in2025
[30:00] uhpresentative Newton has asked
[30:01] us that you know several times
[30:02] we'd pull the data out of our
[30:04] database and we'd hand it to
[30:07] them and it might be 181,000
[30:09] acre feet off if we didn't catch
[30:11] that so when we pull that data
[30:12] we go and look for some of the
[30:13] things that are a little
[30:15] outrageous but there's there's
[30:17] definitely a lot of error in the
[30:18] amount of water that's reported
[30:24] Groundwater use in Oklahoma this
[30:26] is a graph dating back to 20 or
[30:31] the year2000 through2024 and the
[30:32] thing that I would like to point
[30:35] out here is in about2010 to2011
[30:37] we started having an increase in
[30:38] the amount of water use
[30:40] reported. We also had an
[30:42] increase of the amount of
[30:43] permits that were being applied
[30:46] for and it was because of the
[30:47] drought and if you look at those
[30:49] numbers we had about a50%
[30:50] increase in the amount of water
[30:51] use that was
[30:53] reported so we've had a lot an
[30:55] influx of people when drought
[30:56] happens there's a water
[30:58] scarcity. I don't know if I have
[31:02] enough water I need to permit
[31:04] some more of my land to increase
[31:05] the amount of water I can use.
[31:10] w017 was the most water we've
[31:12] had groundwater we've had
[31:16] reported I think2025 is right
[31:18] now reporting a little bit more
[31:20] than 1.2 million acre feet
[31:21] so2025 might be the highest
[31:24] amount of groundwater use
[31:26] reported and as you can see
[31:28] irrigation is the number one
[31:30] user of groundwater followed by
[31:31] public water supply.
[31:38] for example as some comparisons
[31:40] the ogallala panhandle 1.2
[31:43] million allocated we get
[31:46] about500,000 acre feet reported
[31:48] Ogallala northwest that's
[31:51] theogallala not in the panhandle
[31:53] of Ogloma and there's
[31:54] interest in the imron River
[31:57] alluvium terrace aquifer again
[31:59] allocated versus reported about
[32:02] a quarter of that is used
[32:02] statewide in Oklahoma
[32:06] 42 million acre feet is
[32:10] allocated 1.2 million is
[32:12] reported and for comparison
[32:14] because I know a lot of us don't
[32:16] think in a re feet Oklahoma City
[32:19] uses about 1540 acre feet this
[32:22] is in2025 Oklahoma City only
[32:24] uses surface water. this was
[32:25] just for a comparison
[32:26] so
[32:28] Oklahoma City uses a lot of
[32:29] water
[32:32] it's kind of comparable to some
[32:33] of these aquifers
[32:36] the city of Enid is the largest
[32:38] groundwater user in the state of
[32:40] Oklahoma 93,000 acre feet
[32:42] allocated they report 18 about
[32:43] 18 1000 acre feet
[32:50] this is a slide showing how much
[32:52] water use is reported per
[32:54] aquifer the couple of numbers
[32:55] that I want to focus on are the
[32:58] top three on the left that's the
[33:01] ogallala rush springs and
[33:03] theakkota sandstone is below the
[33:04] ogallala out in the panhandle.
[33:06] those are the top three
[33:08] groundwater aquifers that are
[33:10] used and the number one alluvium
[33:12] terra aquifer and that's just
[33:15] the sand deposits of the rivers
[33:17] the number one is the imarron
[33:17] river allu
[33:20] vi terraaquiver those are the
[33:21] four highest used aquifers in
[33:21] the state of Oklahoma.
[33:26] these are a couple of
[33:30] diagrams maps of theogallala
[33:32] aquifer the top one is the
[33:36] percent depletion that's the
[33:38] percentage of groundwater that's
[33:40] been depleted compared to
[33:42] predevelopment when we start to
[33:44] have a a lot of center pivots
[33:48] going in in the 1950s the purple
[33:50] and red are where saturated
[33:53] thicknesses over50% depleted
[33:56] it might also be locations where
[33:57] there's not much saturated
[33:58] thickness
[33:58] and then the bottom
[34:02] and what I mean by saturated
[34:06] thickness is you have an aquifer
[34:09] that might be this thick and
[34:10] you saturated thickness may only
[34:14] be the bottom75% and so that's
[34:15] what I mean by saturated
[34:18] thickness. The bottom figure of
[34:20] the ogallala and the panhandle
[34:24] basically shows are an
[34:26] estimate of how many years
[34:29] until that portion of the
[34:30] aquifer is depleted and this is
[34:32] based off of some back of the
[34:34] envelope calculations that we
[34:36] did assuming you had a70 feet of
[34:38] saturated thickness and we're
[34:42] pumping at or could pump at250
[34:43] gallons a minute and those
[34:45] are very minimum amounts so as
[34:46] you can see theres some portions
[34:48] of the aquifer that there's not
[34:52] as much saturation to be able
[34:53] to continue pumping
[34:55] anything over green is what
[34:57] we're estimating over 100 years
[34:58] left in the Ogolana aquifer.
[35:06] this
[35:11] at current pumping rates and
[35:13] declines actually it's at
[35:14] current declines of water use
[35:20] or at at current saturated at
[35:22] current saturated thickness
[35:25] pumping at current rates and
[35:26] showing those current declines
[35:29] that's how many years that we
[35:32] anticipate or or estimating
[35:34] at this time we have a contract
[35:35] with the US Geological Survey at
[35:38] the moment to update our equal
[35:40] proportionate share maximum
[35:41] yield calculations and as part
[35:42] of that groundwater model
[35:44] they'll be doing some estimates
[35:46] very similar to this but this is
[35:47] a kind of preliminary
[35:49] numbers just to say hey this is
[35:49] kind of what we're looking at
[35:54] and then this is the permits
[35:55] that map with the permits
[35:58] overlaid on top of that and it
[35:59] kind of shows where the aquifer
[35:59] is being used
[36:02] I believe in Texas County and
[36:03] the north
[36:06] west portion of that where we
[36:06] see some of the quote
[36:09] insufficient saturation or0 to20
[36:12] feet of years remaining we see a
[36:13] lot of permits out there so that
[36:14] that's an area we probably need
[36:16] to start might be an area of
[36:17] concern
[36:24] to go out there and collect a
[36:26] little bit more data or talk
[36:28] with the landowners and ask is
[36:29] this kind of what you're seeing
[36:32] so again this is a kind of
[36:34] our preliminary map to say hey
[36:36] this is kind of what's going on
[36:38] you don't know what's going
[36:39] on unless you look
[36:44] and then this is a movie of
[36:45] depletion of the okkullala
[36:47] panhandle aquifer from 1981
[36:51] showing the rates of decline the
[36:54] yellow is 30 to40 feet we start
[36:56] seeing reds60 to 80 ft of
[36:57] decline 80 to100 with the
[37:02] purple and over 100 ft with
[37:03] that deep red
[37:04] again
[37:12] that was only through the2020s
[37:12] and this only starts in 1981
[37:16] you can go on the web and find
[37:20] articles dating back to 19811982
[37:21] that say hey what are we going
[37:22] to do with the ogallala it's
[37:24] already declining at rates
[37:25] that are pretty quick
[37:28] and specifically in Oklahoma
[37:30] some of those articles so we
[37:32] already had declines in Oklahoma
[37:35] this just shows hey from 81
[37:38] to2022 I think it was we're
[37:40] seeing in some areas that have
[37:42] had 1100 ft over 100 ft of
[37:42] decline
[37:48] Rush springs is another aquifer
[37:50] that we have a little bit of
[37:52] concern about Caddo County as I
[37:53] mentioned was the fourth largest
[37:57] county where we have groundwater
[38:00] use the the top left graph there
[38:02] is a particular well that shows
[38:04] data dating back into the 1940s
[38:08] and that well has lost about540
[38:10] to50 feet of saturated thickness
[38:12] and
[38:16] that well on this map isn't
[38:18] even in the area where we see
[38:19] the largest declines
[38:28] and between2005 and2020 in
[38:29] catttlell County that's almost
[38:32] about 2 ft of average decline in
[38:33] that aquifer
[38:34] now in the state of Oklahoma we
[38:35] don't
[38:39] consider the surface water
[38:42] groundwater interaction and
[38:43] but it
[38:45] exists
[38:45] and
[38:50] fort Cobbreservoir relies a lot
[38:52] on groundwater that seeps out
[38:55] into the springs and streams and
[38:57] so that reservoir relies on that
[39:00] groundwater to keep it full and
[39:02] so the you know fort Cobbmaster
[39:05] Conservancy is interested in
[39:07] understanding you know if we
[39:08] have continued declines in the
[39:10] rush springs aquifer what effect
[39:12] does that have on that reservoir
[39:14] and their ability to provide
[39:15] drinking water to the public
[39:20] gar ver Wellington is another
[39:21] aquifer it's over central
[39:23] Oklahoma Oklahoma City gets
[39:24] their water from surface water
[39:28] a lot of the communities around
[39:30] Oklama City get their water from
[39:33] groundwater and the figure on
[39:36] the right is showing basically a
[39:38] subtraction between two datasets
[39:39] that we have and it shows in
[39:42] some areas between 1987 and2009
[39:46] we had up to 30 ft of loss of
[39:48] that thickness of that aquifer
[39:50] and so there are some areas that
[39:51] might be a little bit more
[39:52] concerned down at the moreore
[39:55] and Norman area. I know the city
[39:55] of Mustang also has
[39:59] wells in that dark red area and
[40:01] that's shown declines between
[40:04] those two time frames the top
[40:06] graph again is a well
[40:08] neareddmmon that's showing
[40:12] about40 feet drop 35.9 ft of
[40:13] drop in twenty5 years
[40:14] again
[40:18] not to be alarming but this is
[40:19] what kind of some of the data is
[40:22] showing and for us just to know
[40:22] this is what's kind of going on
[40:23] in some of these aquifers
[40:27] ga in Northork of the edriver
[40:29] this also is kind of a
[40:32] controversial area we have lurid
[40:34] altus that's downstream the the
[40:37] or down gradient that provides
[40:39] water for the luridaltus
[40:42] irrigation district and they
[40:44] have some concern on groundwater
[40:46] that's being used upstream
[40:50] and it's ability to provide
[40:53] any water to that reservoir. So
[40:53] what happens is we have
[40:57] rainfall some of that soaks into
[40:59] the ground some of it runs off
[41:01] the reservoir captures what's
[41:02] runs off. there's some of that
[41:04] water that soaks in and leaks
[41:07] out and that's what they're kind
[41:08] of concerned with so they're
[41:09] interested in knowing how much
[41:10] of that groundwater that seeps
[41:14] out fills in that aquifer and
[41:16] so from2015 to2025 in the north
[41:18] fork of the red there's just one
[41:20] well in particular there that we
[41:22] pulled up some data that top
[41:23] figure shows about 16 ft of
[41:23] drawdown for an a
[41:26] qui f er that's probably not too
[41:30] thick in that area. maybe 100
[41:31] ft in that area
[41:34] some of these alluvium teris
[41:37] aquifers are really thin 30 ft
[41:39] of of thickness is all some of
[41:41] them have a little bit more 100
[41:44] to120 feet of thickness. rush
[41:46] springs is about 30 ft
[41:48] thick on average that's a
[41:50] bedrock aquifer garber
[41:51] wellington maybe average 3 to500
[41:51] feet
[41:54] question
[42:01] you're recognized thank you Mr
[42:03] Chair you talked about that
[42:05] Altaslake that irrigation
[42:07] district and then the people up
[42:09] above it do is do you feel
[42:11] there's a correlation with you
[42:12] know the lake is it hurting the
[42:14] people up above or the people up
[42:15] above hurting the lake do you
[42:18] do you see a correlation between
[42:19] the two
[42:22] I think any any drop of water
[42:24] you take out of a system is
[42:26] going to affect that system to a
[42:28] certain extent and I think there
[42:29] needs to be a little bit more
[42:30] let's look at this a little bit
[42:33] more if this is a concern you
[42:35] know if I take a drink out of a
[42:38] cup of water my son's cup of
[42:39] water he might get aggravated at
[42:40] me cause that's one less drink
[42:42] that he would have or if it's a
[42:43] coke for sure he would get
[42:44] aggravated at me but do think
[42:48] that if there are any drop of
[42:49] water that's taken out does have
[42:49] an effect on the
[42:52] system so I think it's something
[42:53] that we would need to look at a
[42:53] little bit more.
[42:56] is that a good kind of waffling
[42:57] on the fence answer for you
[43:02] this is a long term water level
[43:03] responses in some of these
[43:04] aquifers. What I really want to
[43:06] point out here is it's really
[43:08] kind of it's hard to read but
[43:10] the gray areas on each one of
[43:11] these graphs going left to right
[43:13] and they start about 1900 and
[43:14] the water levels kind of kick up
[43:16] whether in the fiftiess or60s
[43:18] and these are just kind of
[43:19] average water levels but what I
[43:21] want to show on this graph is
[43:22] like a little gray areas that
[43:25] are going from the top to
[43:28] bottom are are drought periods
[43:29] and when we go into a drought
[43:29] these
[43:32] aquifers definitely respond they
[43:35] the water is either being taken
[43:36] out and not replenished through
[43:38] rainfall or some of it's leaking
[43:42] out into the creeks providing
[43:43] base flow but there's def
[43:44] there's a correlation between
[43:46] some of our droughts and the
[43:47] water levels in the aquifer
[43:52] so that's kind of the current
[43:54] conditions at the water board is
[43:56] sc specifically and water rights
[43:57] what we what we're looking at
[44:00] what I want to do is talk about
[44:02] how we're restoring core
[44:04] capacity if there's any
[44:06] questions or what I've kind of
[44:08] presented as I go through the
[44:10] rest of this presentation feel
[44:11] free to ask
[44:15] Over the last 2 to 4 years we've
[44:17] gotten an influx of some
[44:20] appropriations to help
[44:21] restore some of our core
[44:22] capacity we've talked about this
[44:23] Julie's talked about it at the
[44:26] governor's water conference and
[44:28] we've been able to hire just a
[44:30] little bit more staff in
[44:32] the2010s we had again I
[44:34] mentioned we had budget cuts we
[44:35] closed all of our offices
[44:37] positions weren't rehired we had
[44:38] about6 people running our
[44:39] permitting
[44:42] permitting department
[44:46] what we've done over the last
[44:48] five years is we've adjusted
[44:49] some of our outdated fee
[44:51] structures and then we requested
[44:54] those appropriations that
[44:56] representative Newton has a
[44:59] championed at least for
[45:01] groundwater and groundwater
[45:02] compliance. so we've been
[45:04] addressing a backlog of
[45:06] applications basic housekeeping
[45:07] things like that
[45:10] and of course there's Julie at
[45:12] our governor's our conference
[45:14] who was probably giving that
[45:15] that talk right there we need to
[45:15] restore core capacity
[45:19] She came into my office as we
[45:20] were going over that and it's
[45:22] like you're not going to use
[45:24] that so this graph shows
[45:28] basically the number of staff
[45:29] that we've had for our
[45:31] permitting and as you can see
[45:36] there throughout2019 to2021,22
[45:39] we only had about5 or6 staff and
[45:42] through some of those raising
[45:43] fees we look at other states
[45:46] what are other states doing if
[45:47] they're they're raising their
[45:47] rates we're kind of kind of
[45:48] going
[45:49] into
[45:52] seeing how much time permitting
[45:54] process takes how much of what
[45:55] that cost is we're looking at
[45:57] what other states are doing and
[46:00] we're adjusting those fee rates
[46:03] for a permit application based
[46:06] off of those numbers so we've in
[46:08] adjusted that fee rates we've
[46:09] gotten the additional
[46:10] appropriations and we'll be able
[46:13] to hire staff to even you know
[46:14] you don't know what you have in
[46:16] the cupboard unless you look so
[46:17] that's basically what it is
[46:23] and
[46:24] if you look at the bottom
[46:28] graph2025 that gray number is
[46:30] the total number of permit
[46:31] applications that we were able
[46:34] to process in2025 it corresponds
[46:36] to the number of staff we've
[46:39] been able to increase. if you
[46:42] look back to201w2ish area you
[46:45] also see high number there
[46:47] and but it's a lower amount of
[46:50] permits I think we were in kind
[46:51] of that phase of we got to get
[46:51] these
[46:52] permits out we got to get these
[46:54] permits out we got to get these
[46:56] permits out and we missed a lot
[46:58] of things there are probably a
[46:59] lot of issues with a lot of
[47:01] permits that were issued back
[47:04] around that time and so that's
[47:05] some of the housekeeping that we
[47:08] kind of need to look at. So for
[47:09] instance if you got a permit
[47:12] in2012 and you come back and
[47:13] oops we forgot to put this well
[47:14] on your in your
[47:20] notice public notice packet
[47:20] well when you do your amendment
[47:23] we put that well in that notice
[47:24] if you're coming back to add
[47:26] more water to your to your well
[47:27] so some of those housekeeping
[47:27] things
[47:30] What I'd like to point out is
[47:32] one of the things that we were
[47:34] told is that the water board
[47:34] takes so long to get these
[47:37] permits out and while that is
[47:40] true it's this interplay of
[47:42] you're applying for a water ride
[47:44] you just send in a piece of mail
[47:48] and it goes at the bottom of the
[47:49] stack and we work down
[47:54] and or an email and we get
[47:56] there we work on your permit we
[47:57] send you hey this is kind of
[47:58] wrong can you make these
[48:00] corrections? you put it down on
[48:01] your desk it sits there for two
[48:02] months and he's oh I've got a a
[48:05] I've got to fill that out and
[48:06] you send it back to us it goes
[48:07] back to the bottom of the list
[48:10] and what we started doing after
[48:12] talking with the state of Texas
[48:14] I know sorry we got an idea from
[48:16] Texas but anyway they said hey
[48:19] if you sit down with your with
[48:20] your people who want permits it
[48:22] helps out with that process a
[48:23] lot more. who would have thought
[48:24] if you actually sat down with
[48:26] somebody right? So when you
[48:28] apply for a permit we highly
[48:30] recommend you come in and sit
[48:32] down with us and what we found
[48:34] is that knocks off about 3
[48:34] months off of that process time
[48:38] and so if you come in and sit
[48:40] down with us we help you fill it
[48:41] out it's basically ready to go.
[48:44] Our permanit specialist they see
[48:46] that face to face connection and
[48:47] they say oh Josh I really like
[48:49] you know we had such a great
[48:50] time filling out your
[48:51] application. I'm gonna go finish
[48:53] it out right now goes through
[48:54] the process he gets his notice
[48:56] packets you know relatively
[48:58] quickly versus someone that's
[49:01] sends in those packets and it it
[49:04] might wait but the amount of
[49:05] time that these permits have
[49:08] taken if you have an appointment
[49:10] with us it usually knocks about
[49:10] three months off of that
[49:11] process.
[49:14] and that's just data from
[49:17] late2023 through2025 we started
[49:17] keeping track of that
[49:22] the number of complaints we get,
[49:25] you know previous to about 2020
[49:26] there was one guy you know on
[49:28] the phone he'd be on the phone
[49:31] he'd write it down and if he got
[49:32] out in the field to check it out
[49:36] who knows but as we started
[49:38] getting a little bit of that
[49:40] core capacity back we're able to
[49:44] hire an additional person and we
[49:45] can actually go out and
[49:48] investigate these complaints is
[49:49] this well too close? Is there
[49:51] too much pumping going on?
[49:53] what's the issue here?2 people
[49:54] fighting I think we had a
[49:58] complaint about two folks out in
[50:00] the panhandle and one of them
[50:02] said meet me at the stockyards
[50:04] and we'll finish this out and
[50:05] sure enough they met at the
[50:07] stockyards and had a fistfight
[50:08] and the well driller was sitting
[50:10] there. what am I supposed to do?
[50:11] they're on the phone with us
[50:13] take photos I mean I don't I
[50:13] don't know
[50:17] so these issues are there's more
[50:20] issues that are rising people
[50:22] are starting to rely on us a
[50:23] little bit more to help them
[50:26] figure out a lot of these
[50:26] complaints and water issues
[50:30] I'd mentioned we have a well
[50:32] drillers program that the well
[50:34] drillers are now required to
[50:37] submit a intent to drill for
[50:38] anything that requires a permit
[50:41] not for domestic use. this is an
[50:43] example on the bottom of what
[50:46] we're seeing out there there's a
[50:48] hole or cavity that's opened up
[50:50] and you can see some cement
[50:52] around that well. Well that
[50:54] cement is supposed to be 10 to20
[50:55] feet depending on the
[50:56] circumstance and that well
[50:57] driller just put in maybe foot
[51:01] and something bad happened to
[51:01] this
[51:04] that program was established in
[51:05] 1973
[51:11] and our well drillers go out
[51:12] and they inspect some of these
[51:13] wells
[51:18] through those budget cuts we
[51:21] were down to about two staff and
[51:22] they didn't have enough time to
[51:24] go out and do well inspections.
[51:28] so here's a graph showing the
[51:30] number of well inspections we
[51:32] hired some folks in late2024 and
[51:34] we've been able to increase our
[51:36] well inspections visiting
[51:37] with those
[51:40] well drillers making those
[51:42] connections and our
[51:46] those people's names are getting
[51:48] out there our staff so they know
[51:50] oh Jason's coming out or
[51:51] Charlie's coming out or whatever
[51:54] and so it's just getting a lot
[51:55] more field presence over the
[51:57] last couple of years with those
[51:59] slight increases in
[51:59] appropriations
[52:04] Neil I got I do have a question
[52:06] from vice chairir west and just
[52:08] a couple of pages back we're
[52:09] gonna try to catch them as we go
[52:09] if you don't mind.
[52:12] thank you Mr Chairman.
[52:16] go
[52:16] a couple of questions
[52:22] the field offices that what what
[52:23] was their job
[52:27] so the field offices we'd have
[52:30] you know a couple of guys
[52:32] Kim was Kim Suivan was his name
[52:35] or Hank you know down in the law
[52:38] in office and if you had you
[52:38] know permit questions you
[52:40] wouldn't have to drive all the
[52:42] way to Oklahoma City and they
[52:43] may even know you by name. we
[52:45] had those present that presence
[52:48] out there for years for decades
[52:50] and so their job was to kind of
[52:52] do a little bit of everything
[52:53] help people with permits and
[52:53] help them fill it out
[52:56] they may go do some of these
[52:57] well inspections I talked about
[52:59] or if there was a complaint they
[53:00] were down there and they would
[53:02] go talk with people and
[53:04] figure it out. So we had offices
[53:09] in Tulsa in Mccalister in
[53:13] Woodward and in lawwin and over
[53:15] the years we closed down those
[53:17] offices so their jobs were
[53:18] basically some of this core
[53:20] capacity I was talking about
[53:22] that we're able to hire staff to
[53:23] be able to go fill those pos
[53:25] ition s back now but we're
[53:26] stationed in Oklahoma City.
[53:32] you recognized thank you
[53:33] chairman
[53:36] what
[53:40] what positions were saved
[53:46] positions you you cut all the
[53:47] field offices were closed
[53:49] position's not hard
[53:54] so throughout the20tens what
[53:59] positions were kept so we had
[54:02] positions in our water rights
[54:04] permitting so we're basically
[54:06] just lowering the number of
[54:07] staff that we had we're
[54:08] decreasing the size of
[54:10] government so where we may have
[54:12] had 10 perbiting staff at you
[54:16] know at that point we had ive we
[54:18] may have had 3 or4 people in our
[54:19] well drillers program we dropped
[54:20] that to two the people that were
[54:21] working
[54:24] on the technical studies that
[54:25] may have that's always kind of
[54:26] traditionally been about two
[54:30] people so those were the types
[54:31] of positions so when you cut
[54:34] those down the amount of time
[54:37] for applications goes up we make
[54:38] there are more mistakes made on
[54:40] some of these applications or
[54:42] we're not able to go out and
[54:44] inspect wells to make sure there
[54:45] are good well drillers out there
[54:45] drilling those wells
[54:51] d d ition al follow up you're
[54:53] recognized thank you Mr
[54:53] chairirman
[54:56] of the positions that
[55:02] you terminated or was to not you
[55:04] but was terminated and the ones
[55:05] that were kept
[55:06] especially
[55:10] which ones of those do you think
[55:11] were
[55:12] the most important
[55:15] that's a very good question
[55:18] I would have to think about that
[55:22] it's kind of like if you took
[55:24] the House of Representatives and
[55:25] cut out half of everybody
[55:30] right and you now have
[55:35] now you have to cover twice as
[55:38] much area and had to talk with
[55:40] twice as many constituents and
[55:42] now the question is which one of
[55:45] those representatives were the
[55:47] most important you know that's
[55:48] that's a tricky question. So I
[55:49] would would have to think about
[55:50] it it's really good
[55:55] OK continue on thank you sir
[56:01] So I mentioned the intent to
[56:02] drill process this is probably
[56:06] one of the great examples of the
[56:09] issues that have come up the
[56:15] map here shows three wells that
[56:16] were drilled on an application
[56:18] and
[56:22] traditionally what would happen
[56:24] is hey I'm going to apply for a
[56:26] permit they wouldn't call us
[56:28] they call the well driller and
[56:29] they would say hey come drill my
[56:30] wells. I know exactly where I
[56:32] want to put them. I want to see
[56:34] if there's water there and then
[56:35] we're gonna drill them and then
[56:36] I'll go apply for a permit
[56:39] so in this case that's what the
[56:40] well driller did they drilled
[56:44] these three wells and the found
[56:46] you know good water and so
[56:49] they sent in their application
[56:50] to go to notice and it was
[56:50] protested
[56:53] and right across the street
[56:54] where the yellow arrow is
[56:57] pointed it's another well within
[56:58] a couple 100 ft. it doesn't meet
[56:59] that well spacing
[57:00] and
[57:02] this went to a hearing
[57:07] and the hearing examiner issued
[57:10] a order and the hearing examiner
[57:14] said that well that's closest
[57:15] because there is already a
[57:16] permit in place and it doesn't
[57:19] meet well spacing that well over
[57:22] on to the left cannot be used.
[57:25] it's not supposed to be used so
[57:26] the person who applied for this
[57:28] permit got their perm permit
[57:30] they can't use that well that
[57:32] well probably costs them
[57:33] anywhere from60, to100,000
[57:33] dollars to d
[57:36] ri ll that the landowner lost
[57:37] out on
[57:40] and it put our board in such a
[57:42] difficult position that you just
[57:44] spent $100,000 to drill your
[57:46] well and we're telling you you
[57:47] can't use it because you don't
[57:48] need well spacing because you
[57:50] drilled your wells before you
[57:52] talked with us or put in a
[57:52] permit application
[57:54] so again what the intent to
[57:56] drill process would now do if
[57:58] this person had gone to notice
[58:01] or had come to us, had gotten
[58:02] their permit the well driller
[58:04] would have put in this permit
[58:05] number they would have talked to
[58:06] us and we just said hey that
[58:08] well over on the left can't be
[58:09] drilled because there's another
[58:11] well close too close to your
[58:13] permit. so that's the intent to
[58:14] drill process we have a number
[58:18] of these that are bored had to
[58:20] decline the use of a well or
[58:22] they made some restrictions on
[58:23] other wells sometimes
[58:26] if they don't like the board's
[58:30] decision this can go to court
[58:30] and we have a couple of cases
[58:34] the since this went into
[58:38] place we've had about495 of
[58:40] those that have come through and
[58:42] we've approved about 388 of
[58:44] those intend to drills that the
[58:45] well driller has submitted
[58:46] so the the process
[58:50] let let me interrupt I think
[58:51] I have a question on that
[58:52] subject right quick before we
[58:54] leave that representative you're
[58:55] recognized
[59:01] Thank you chair. what what's
[59:02] the minimum feet you like
[59:05] between what's the minimum
[59:05] fee between whales
[59:12] so domestic use will start there
[59:13] if everybody in this room has a
[59:15] domestic well, actually you can
[59:16] place them right next to each
[59:20] other as far as you know you are
[59:23] and we would allow that if for
[59:25] if it's for any beneficial uses
[59:27] that's when we'll look at well
[59:28] spacing distances and what we
[59:30] had for instance when we'd get
[59:34] when we would get applications
[59:36] for marijuana farms as you know
[59:37] some of those would be close to
[59:42] cities or towns or inside a a
[59:43] subdivision or close by and the
[59:45] well spacing is tighter and they
[59:49] couldn't meet that 100,320 well
[59:52] spacing distance. some aquifers
[59:53] don't have a well spacing
[59:55] distance at this point. there
[59:57] were some rules that were put
[1:00:00] into place that changed that
[1:00:01] allowed us to
[1:00:02] est ab li sh walls spacing
[1:00:08] statewide so that distance is
[1:00:11] 1320 ft for bedrock aquifers if
[1:00:12] there's a permit they need to
[1:00:14] meet that. Now if it's a small
[1:00:16] piece of land you're putting in
[1:00:18] a pecan orchard or something on
[1:00:20] 10 acres and you can't meet that
[1:00:22] you would request a well
[1:00:24] spacing exception we'd take a
[1:00:25] look at that and say well you do
[1:00:26] have a right to use that water
[1:00:27] will allow it this time
[1:00:30] so
[1:00:32] so
[1:00:35] like right here we've got this
[1:00:38] pivot it's got 3 wells so
[1:00:41] is that not in
[1:00:46] the spacing as far as the
[1:00:48] well spacing how so is that all
[1:00:50] is it is it fine if it's on the
[1:00:51] same permit and it's the same
[1:00:54] user yeah if that's a good point
[1:00:56] if you're putting in your wells
[1:00:57] on your own property you don't
[1:00:59] have to meet that well spacing
[1:01:00] requirement it's just we're
[1:01:02] wanting to make sure we are
[1:01:03] providing enough protection for
[1:01:04] the people that are around you
[1:01:07] thank you you're welcome
[1:01:12] Again I deal with this stuff
[1:01:14] every day and sometimes I might
[1:01:14] not explain something so feel
[1:01:17] free to ask questions there are
[1:01:17] no silly questions
[1:01:22] annual water use reporting again
[1:01:24] we're trying to store restore
[1:01:26] core capacity and we pulled
[1:01:30] our2025 water use and looked at
[1:01:31] how many people are or aren't
[1:01:31] reporting
[1:01:33] and
[1:01:40] for2025 we had about 1000 of
[1:01:44] those 13,000 permits or
[1:01:46] 1w2,000 permits that did not
[1:01:48] report that we sent out cards to
[1:01:50] water use cards and
[1:01:54] this is just a graph of showing
[1:01:56] or a map showing where those
[1:01:58] people are located that did not
[1:02:00] submit water use reports to us
[1:02:06] so what we do is we pull that
[1:02:08] number it was about 1000 we send
[1:02:11] out we usually send out a
[1:02:14] late notice in July. This was
[1:02:16] after that late notice we still
[1:02:18] had about 10an0 that didn't come
[1:02:20] into compliance and we reached
[1:02:24] out and through that process
[1:02:25] got that number down to
[1:02:27] about500. now we're trying to
[1:02:28] figure out where do we go
[1:02:30] because we've never been here
[1:02:32] before we've never been to the
[1:02:33] point where
[1:02:36] we've looked at this data it's a
[1:02:38] requirement do we send out a
[1:02:40] notice of violation do we is are
[1:02:43] there fines associated with this
[1:02:44] for not reporting if you haven't
[1:02:46] been reporting for years? is
[1:02:50] there a penalty for that and
[1:02:51] traditionally there hasn't been
[1:02:52] you just you do or you don't
[1:02:53] report it
[1:03:00] and out of those546 permits
[1:03:02] there's about 135 that didn't
[1:03:04] report in2024 and2025.
[1:03:06] so what do you do? do you
[1:03:10] do you go knock on their door?
[1:03:11] do you call them
[1:03:12] that you know they won't answer
[1:03:14] the door you come oh I'm not I'm
[1:03:18] not home so we'll see what
[1:03:21] that looks like and every year
[1:03:22] that we we've done this in2024
[1:03:24] and2025 we pulled the water use
[1:03:26] we tried to figure out who it
[1:03:28] has or hasn't reported and it
[1:03:31] takes about675 hours to do that
[1:03:31] of staff time
[1:03:34] and part of that is because our
[1:03:38] databases are2025 years old and
[1:03:40] we're working on
[1:03:41] modernization
[1:03:44] so our databases aren't able to
[1:03:46] tell us information that we need
[1:03:48] to know at this point so we have
[1:03:49] to do some of that manually
[1:03:52] we're also doing more
[1:03:54] outreachgain I've said we're
[1:03:55] trying to restore core capacity
[1:03:57] we've hired some people over the
[1:04:00] last couple of years and we're
[1:04:02] actually trying to do like a
[1:04:05] mobile field office we've gone
[1:04:08] out toyyan we've gone to other
[1:04:11] areas we've set up shop at the
[1:04:16] the local extension office
[1:04:18] or whatnot I think somebody down
[1:04:19] in Altus invited us to
[1:04:24] their had set set a place up
[1:04:26] for us to go to and we've gotten
[1:04:28] pretty good response. people are
[1:04:30] coming in and trying to up their
[1:04:34] update their permits so it's
[1:04:35] just easier for us sometimes to
[1:04:36] go out and put that notice out
[1:04:40] there, posted on the web and
[1:04:41] people have been taking
[1:04:41] advantage of that
[1:04:45] we've also sent out a water use
[1:04:46] card to say hey you're expect
[1:04:48] your water use report to come to
[1:04:50] you here in the next couple of
[1:04:52] months. this next year
[1:04:56] for 20 six's water use we should
[1:04:58] be able to have a pay portal
[1:04:59] where people can go in and
[1:05:01] report that use again we're
[1:05:04] modernizing our databases and
[1:05:05] our ability to shore up some of
[1:05:06] this
[1:05:09] so this is some of the outreach
[1:05:12] some of these figures are
[1:05:14] picturesrs sitting down with
[1:05:17] some of the patrons we work with
[1:05:18] the one in the top in the middle
[1:05:22] we went out and did some
[1:05:24] outreach with a well driller who
[1:05:26] was drilling a a well out near
[1:05:28] Eri, Oklahoma. He invited us out
[1:05:30] so that some of our staff could
[1:05:31] see what an actual groundwater
[1:05:33] well looks like from municipal
[1:05:33] use
[1:05:36] bottomttom left that's I believe
[1:05:38] one of our board members showing
[1:05:40] us peanuts out in western
[1:05:41] Oklahoma
[1:05:46] so looking forward again we had
[1:05:49] a waste enforcement sent Bill259
[1:05:52] that went through this last year
[1:05:53] there was a piece of funding
[1:05:56] that came in for that I believe
[1:05:59] it was 925,000 and what we're
[1:06:02] looking at is our annual water
[1:06:03] use reporting do we
[1:06:06] what are penalties noticeices
[1:06:08] of the violations, how we get
[1:06:09] out there to make sure people
[1:06:11] are reporting their use or using
[1:06:14] their permits correctly
[1:06:16] there's been some talk about
[1:06:18] data centers and groundwa use
[1:06:20] regulated underneath that
[1:06:21] uhenter bill259
[1:06:24] and again that huge portion of
[1:06:26] that so waste enforcement that
[1:06:27] gives the waterboard some
[1:06:30] authority to go out there and
[1:06:34] try to get people into
[1:06:34] compliance
[1:06:39] our top priority priorities down
[1:06:41] there at the bottom is known
[1:06:43] unauthorized use is there
[1:06:44] repeated noncompliance how do we
[1:06:47] do that we're looking at a
[1:06:50] little bit at open ET data that
[1:06:54] t top is a photo or a satellite
[1:06:56] image of some circles crop
[1:06:58] circles out that might be in
[1:07:00] western Oklahoma so we look at
[1:07:02] those we compare to dedicated
[1:07:06] lands and we say ok well there's
[1:07:07] a there's a c
[1:07:09] c ro p circle that doesn't have
[1:07:10] dedicated lands maybe we need to
[1:07:12] go talk with the landowner and
[1:07:14] say hey let's update your
[1:07:15] permit
[1:07:18] so we've actually gone out in
[1:07:20] the field to field verify some
[1:07:21] of that use
[1:07:26] and we across we visited
[1:07:28] about60 sites that have that
[1:07:32] have had use but they're no
[1:07:36] permit and I did have an updated
[1:07:38] slide but I think this one is
[1:07:41] also a little movie here if the
[1:07:42] people in the back can play
[1:07:43] through that
[1:07:46] basicallysically what this is
[1:07:48] going to show is a a center
[1:07:51] pivot going in and right
[1:07:52] there in the middle of the
[1:07:55] screen. I don't know no yeah is
[1:07:55] there
[1:08:05] And I believe there was no
[1:08:06] permit on this day dedicated
[1:08:07] land.
[1:08:10] and part of it's probably maybe
[1:08:12] some education as well like oh I
[1:08:13] didn't know I needed a permit
[1:08:16] there's been talk about
[1:08:18] evapotranspiration data that
[1:08:20] I've shown can we estimate how
[1:08:22] much water use has been used
[1:08:26] on this plot of land and the
[1:08:27] short answer is we're not there
[1:08:30] yet the data isn't detailed
[1:08:31] enough to do an estimate of how
[1:08:34] much water is used on a
[1:08:36] particular plot this time series
[1:08:37] shows the irrigation cycles
[1:08:37] through time.
[1:08:52] we've also compared public water
[1:08:56] supply permits to our
[1:08:59] dedicated lands and our
[1:09:01] permit locations and we found
[1:09:02] there's a discrepancy to what
[1:09:05] the DEcu has in there because
[1:09:08] they they regulate public
[1:09:10] water supply use from public
[1:09:11] water supply wells so they have
[1:09:13] an inventory of all those public
[1:09:15] water supply wells we compared
[1:09:17] them to our permits we flagged
[1:09:18] numerous public water supply
[1:09:21] locations that we need to go
[1:09:22] take a look at and there's kind
[1:09:24] of a a running theme as
[1:09:29] how many public water supply
[1:09:32] permits are probably
[1:09:34] noncompliant and the joke is or
[1:09:36] not a joke is that all of them
[1:09:38] there's probably an issue with
[1:09:40] all public water supply permits
[1:09:42] in the state of Oklahoma like
[1:09:44] they just again call a well
[1:09:46] driller come drill a well and
[1:09:47] they drill it and they've not
[1:09:48] gone to notice for that location
[1:09:51] so that's something we're taking
[1:09:52] a look at
[1:09:55] we've identified 330 potential
[1:09:57] sites where there might be some
[1:09:57] issues
[1:10:00] Again this is restoring our core
[1:10:02] capacity with the additional
[1:10:03] funding that we've had over the
[1:10:04] last several years
[1:10:08] as an example this is the city
[1:10:10] of Lehigh we just went out for a
[1:10:12] site visit. they had some
[1:10:12] questions on drilling a well.
[1:10:14] theres a well driller on site
[1:10:16] and we noticed that some of
[1:10:17] their wells particularly that
[1:10:21] well number7 the green hashed
[1:10:24] area here is our they're
[1:10:27] dedicated land and the green
[1:10:29] boxes are where they said that
[1:10:30] they were where they went to
[1:10:33] notice for their wells and that
[1:10:34] well7 is clearly outside of that
[1:10:38] so they at least have one well
[1:10:40] that's not necessarily or that
[1:10:41] may be
[1:10:43] without
[1:10:44] for lack of better words illegal
[1:10:50] these so
[1:10:57] if we send out water use reports
[1:10:57] and
[1:11:00] you sold your property and no
[1:11:02] longer own it but it goes to you
[1:11:04] you may write on that water use
[1:11:05] report and say I no longer own
[1:11:08] this land and send it back. we
[1:11:09] still don't know who owns that
[1:11:10] land but we flag it in our
[1:11:13] database not to send a water use
[1:11:14] report
[1:11:14] out next year to you
[1:11:18] there's a permit the next guy or
[1:11:20] girl comes up and buys your
[1:11:22] property and starts irrigating
[1:11:23] we don't know who to send that
[1:11:27] water use report to so we've got
[1:11:30] about 3500 of these permits out
[1:11:33] of 123,500 permits we don't know
[1:11:35] who owns that property if
[1:11:36] they're using if they're not
[1:11:39] using water so again this is
[1:11:39] like
[1:11:42] restoring corp capacity looking
[1:11:44] in our cupboards seeing what's
[1:11:46] there and saying oh this is an
[1:11:47] issue that we may want to
[1:11:47] address
[1:11:55] and this is an example of
[1:11:58] looking at that open ET and our
[1:12:02] dedicated lands and of these
[1:12:04] permits that we don't know who
[1:12:06] the owner is and some of those
[1:12:08] squares there's still water
[1:12:10] being used some of them there
[1:12:12] isn't so those permits probably
[1:12:14] can be canceled but the ones
[1:12:16] that do have some open ET
[1:12:18] data showing use we need to
[1:12:19] visit with those landowners
[1:12:24] and that's all I have on water
[1:12:26] rightsdministration andjulie is
[1:12:28] going to take over and I believe
[1:12:29] talk about
[1:12:31] comprehensive wire plan and
[1:12:31] other areas
[1:12:34] are there any questions
[1:12:39] recognise him thank you for
[1:12:41] being here we'll turn we'll
[1:12:42] you're red and
[1:12:46] thank you Miss Neal for that
[1:12:47] information. Are there any other
[1:12:48] questions for Mr Neal before he
[1:12:53] OK.rectorcunningham thank you
[1:13:00] Yesir. can everyone hear me?
[1:13:04] appreciate certainly
[1:13:07] appreciate your invitation
[1:13:08] today you know water is as you
[1:13:11] all know, extremely extremely
[1:13:12] important especially in these
[1:13:15] drought times when folks are
[1:13:17] talking about it so as you
[1:13:18] see we're making a lot of
[1:13:20] improvements we really wanted to
[1:13:22] you to understand what all
[1:13:24] goes into water rights
[1:13:25] administration that there's a
[1:13:28] lot of laws on the books that
[1:13:29] require us to do all this
[1:13:31] maintenance and and and and just
[1:13:32] looking
[1:13:34] at land title and things like
[1:13:36] that it makes these applications
[1:13:38] a lot more complicated so we are
[1:13:40] certainly trying to move on.
[1:13:41] So I'm going to be what
[1:13:41] what is our time
[1:13:42] goal here
[1:13:48] you got about 20 minutes 20
[1:13:50] minutes OK so I'm gonna zip
[1:13:52] through these 15 maybe we will
[1:13:54] ok we will talk I will talk a
[1:13:55] little bit about the
[1:13:56] comprehensive water plan that we
[1:13:59] finalized last fall. we were
[1:14:00] able to get some of the
[1:14:02] recommendations through the
[1:14:04] legislative process last year as
[1:14:06] well as budget recommendations
[1:14:08] but this process so we're
[1:14:11] required by statute to update
[1:14:14] the state's comprehensive water
[1:14:15] plan every 10 years and so
[1:14:15] this20
[1:14:19] 25 plan is just that so we start
[1:14:21] by looking at at at two
[1:14:23] separate things we update the
[1:14:26] water demand and supply
[1:14:28] projections and then look at
[1:14:30] those gaps we do that through
[1:14:34] 82s subbasins across the state
[1:14:36] and then there are
[1:14:38] recommendations and status
[1:14:39] reports for each one of those
[1:14:40] basins so that planners so that
[1:14:42] companies and businesses moving
[1:14:45] in municipalities ag
[1:14:45] producers industry
[1:14:50] can can use that data for to
[1:14:51] understand what's happening
[1:14:54] in their water supply with each
[1:14:56] sector and then the other part
[1:14:58] of it is the executive
[1:15:01] summary and all the technical
[1:15:03] work that goes into priority
[1:15:04] recommendations so that could be
[1:15:06] funding recommendations,
[1:15:08] recommendations for legislation
[1:15:10] recommendations for action,
[1:15:12] and and that was completed
[1:15:15] through a statewide multiyear
[1:15:15] public out
[1:15:18] re ach that some of you may have
[1:15:21] participated in so we had ive
[1:15:23] went a we had ive rounds of
[1:15:26] meetings in each of ive
[1:15:28] quadrants if you will of the
[1:15:30] state and came up with these
[1:15:32] summarize them and these
[1:15:33] recommendations as far as
[1:15:34] statewide recommendations. We
[1:15:36] also had four different work
[1:15:38] groups the the top one there
[1:15:40] is theokklahoma irrrigated
[1:15:42] agriculture Workroup and they
[1:15:43] made some recommendations and
[1:15:45] really it boiled down to the
[1:15:45] need for local management
[1:15:48] structures regionalized planning
[1:15:52] more more local planning and
[1:15:54] then broad stakeholder
[1:15:56] inclusion of other water users
[1:15:58] so not just the a community but
[1:15:59] the other water's users and
[1:16:01] demands in the area and then
[1:16:02] education geared toward better
[1:16:04] management, more accurate data
[1:16:06] collection broader real-time
[1:16:08] groundwater monitoring so we'll
[1:16:09] get into some of that but that
[1:16:11] we heard that not only from this
[1:16:12] work group but but really all
[1:16:15] over the state andris
[1:16:15] emphasized the
[1:16:19] the need for water data and all
[1:16:20] those maps that you saw so that
[1:16:22] we're that you all and and your
[1:16:23] constituents can really
[1:16:24] understand what's happening in
[1:16:26] your in your groundwater basins.
[1:16:28] So I'll just quickly go through
[1:16:30] these four there were4 main
[1:16:30] focus areas that we bundled
[1:16:33] these into infrastructure, water
[1:16:36] supply and storage so lakes and
[1:16:37] the actual physical supply
[1:16:40] conservation water policy and
[1:16:42] then data and information and
[1:16:44] really ultimate goal obviously
[1:16:44] long term water security and as
[1:16:45] all of you know
[1:16:48] there's not one magic bullet.
[1:16:50] there's just not water is very
[1:16:52] local I'll get into some
[1:16:54] water transfers and I know
[1:16:54] you're going to talk about that
[1:16:56] as well so I'll just move
[1:16:58] forward water infrastructure we
[1:17:00] did a need survey24 billion
[1:17:02] dollars of need we actually have
[1:17:03] a list of projects you can zoom
[1:17:04] into your legislative district
[1:17:06] and see where those projects
[1:17:07] are. this is certainly not
[1:17:09] comprehensive but it tells you
[1:17:10] emphasizes that you know there
[1:17:12] is a current24 billion dollars
[1:17:14] in in water and wastewater and
[1:17:15] flood control
[1:17:18] projects. that's not including
[1:17:20] dam rehabilitations necessarily.
[1:17:21] we don't have a comprehensive
[1:17:23] inventory of that but I know
[1:17:26] you all you all get it they're
[1:17:28] you know the last few years the
[1:17:30] Apa dollars came in you all
[1:17:32] dedicated over half a billion
[1:17:35] dollars to water and wastewater
[1:17:37] infrastructure. Last year you
[1:17:40] came back with another73 million
[1:17:41] dollars in water and wastewater
[1:17:44] funding uh26 million of
[1:17:45] that was aPpa interest
[1:17:48] ear ning s which is great we
[1:17:50] certainly love the fact that you
[1:17:52] know there's an acknowledgment
[1:17:53] of the need for for
[1:17:57] for these projects and 3 35
[1:18:00] million of it came into a new
[1:18:04] loan program that the water
[1:18:06] boardard will administer so we
[1:18:08] have several loan programs very
[1:18:10] low interest tripleA rated so
[1:18:11] it's the best interest rates
[1:18:13] ever that that anyone can
[1:18:14] get. Oklahohoma City and Tulsa
[1:18:16] and all the large cities are all
[1:18:19] borrowers in that program which
[1:18:21] actually helps the security and
[1:18:22] helps it helps lower that
[1:18:24] interest rate for the smaller
[1:18:26] borrowers so it the formula
[1:18:26] really works
[1:18:30] we administer one of the
[1:18:31] programs with with the
[1:18:32] department of
[1:18:33] nvironmentaluality. We asked
[1:18:35] for50 million recurring like
[1:18:38] I said we we we got73 million
[1:18:40] this year so we're really
[1:18:43] looking at one that investment
[1:18:44] to expanding technical
[1:18:46] assistance programs so actually
[1:18:49] assistants with you know for
[1:18:51] these communities and ag
[1:18:56] producers for long term
[1:18:56] planning capital planning
[1:18:58] and and conservation
[1:19:01] and then workforce is always one
[1:19:04] that we're looking at. so
[1:19:08] this is the the 1980 plan and
[1:19:12] the 1995 plan both both
[1:19:13] recommended
[1:19:14] water
[1:19:18] transfer that was that was
[1:19:20] how we're going to solve all of
[1:19:22] our problems is transfer it from
[1:19:23] east to west get water out to
[1:19:24] the panhound, get water out to
[1:19:26] Alus you know these these things
[1:19:27] are are
[1:19:32] are very, you know, obviously
[1:19:33] we have way more water in the
[1:19:34] east than we do in the west so
[1:19:35] it makes sense but the problem
[1:19:37] is cost right? that's always a
[1:19:38] problem who's going to pay for
[1:19:39] it? how are they going to be
[1:19:40] paid for? these numbers are
[1:19:42] actually from an update from
[1:19:44] the2012 plan and you can see
[1:19:47] that the construction the
[1:19:49] north that middle one there 13
[1:19:52] to20 billion dollars to go from
[1:19:54] the east all the way across the
[1:19:55] state to the west. those are
[1:19:57] in201w2 numbers so you can add
[1:19:57] about47
[1:20:00] % in addition to this cost so
[1:20:04] what the201w2 plan and this plan
[1:20:06] really said is let's let's look
[1:20:08] more locally and let's try to
[1:20:10] regionalize and find those
[1:20:12] solutions locally umennid is a
[1:20:14] prime example we actually funded
[1:20:16] through the FAP and the
[1:20:19] drinking water SrF program $350
[1:20:21] million they already had their
[1:20:23] water right in Ca Lake whichri
[1:20:24] will tell you you have to have
[1:20:25] your water right before you can
[1:20:26] before you can even think
[1:20:28] about transferring water. they
[1:20:30] had they had to build a wall ro
[1:20:31] raw water intake
[1:20:34] line they built a 70 mile
[1:20:36] transmission line a new water
[1:20:38] plant they actually broke
[1:20:40] actually I attended this ribbon
[1:20:42] cutting two weeks ago and so
[1:20:43] they are very very excited in
[1:20:45] this particular situationrish
[1:20:46] told you that they're all
[1:20:48] they're 100% on groundwater.
[1:20:50] this will allow them to blend
[1:20:52] surface water with groundwater
[1:20:55] and vastly extend their
[1:20:57] their capacity they can probably
[1:21:00] become suppliers for
[1:21:00] surrounding areas as well so
[1:21:01] this
[1:21:04] is a success story as far as a
[1:21:06] transfer. This took about 10
[1:21:08] years of discussing and planning
[1:21:10] and trying to get this in motion
[1:21:12] and trying to really
[1:21:13] educating and and convincing
[1:21:15] their citizens to pay for it and
[1:21:16] so they have to pay these loans
[1:21:18] back and so their citizens had
[1:21:21] to have a sales tax increase and
[1:21:22] and rate increases but now
[1:21:24] they've got water security for
[1:21:25] the foreseeable future
[1:21:28] the next the next
[1:21:30] recommendation was water supply
[1:21:32] and storage so this is you know,
[1:21:34] strengthening Oklahoma's dam
[1:21:35] safety program. I've been here
[1:21:36] before talking about the4700
[1:21:39] dams that we regulate that are
[1:21:42] over60 years in age so we've got
[1:21:43] a ton of infrastructure there
[1:21:44] was a big infrastructure
[1:21:47] construction boom over60 years
[1:21:49] ago and now they they need
[1:21:50] rehabilitation and we need to
[1:21:54] look at them for things
[1:21:55] like increased capacity. So our
[1:21:55] dams and
[1:21:58] our state are very important
[1:21:59] they not only hold back
[1:22:00] floodwater and help dissipate
[1:22:03] dissipate it but they hold water
[1:22:05] for drought times and so a lot
[1:22:07] of those dams are are very very
[1:22:08] very critical
[1:22:12] agwater conservation was
[1:22:14] included in this so that's still
[1:22:16] kind of a driving theme helping
[1:22:18] support local economic drivers
[1:22:20] modernizing our agricultural
[1:22:22] sector also in the eastern
[1:22:24] part of the state voluntary
[1:22:26] tourism and recreation related
[1:22:28] water conservation so looking at
[1:22:30] things like you know lowering
[1:22:32] interest rates for loans to
[1:22:34] communities that to fix their
[1:22:36] water loss so the the more the
[1:22:37] less water they're taking from
[1:22:38] the stream the more they're
[1:22:40] leaving in the stream for in
[1:22:42] stream uses
[1:22:50] these are water quality and
[1:22:52] quantity of course is in the
[1:22:54] in that equation as well as
[1:22:56] water reuse things like
[1:22:58] aquifer storage and recovery
[1:23:00] we've got the framework now in
[1:23:04] statute and in rules and so the
[1:23:05] the job of the state is to clear
[1:23:06] that so that then communities
[1:23:08] and investors can go in and
[1:23:10] really start using some of these
[1:23:13] aquifers and and using these
[1:23:14] untapped marginal waters that we
[1:23:15] that we have
[1:23:19] the third one was water
[1:23:22] management and policy so this is
[1:23:24] a modernizing the water rights
[1:23:25] programme Chris just talked
[1:23:26] about that maximate your yields
[1:23:28] go ahead and and expediting
[1:23:30] those and getting those done so
[1:23:32] that new permits are under these
[1:23:36] new new permit allocations
[1:23:38] if you will to protect the long
[1:23:41] term supply modernizing water
[1:23:44] law we we actually got
[1:23:46] some the well spacing through
[1:23:47] legislation this
[1:23:51] year as as well as water well
[1:23:53] drillers indemnity fund so that
[1:23:54] was a very important one.
[1:23:58] again improving agwater
[1:23:59] management
[1:24:01] and establishing the framework
[1:24:03] for fund and funding for the
[1:24:04] regional water management
[1:24:06] districts so this includes
[1:24:07] technical support administration
[1:24:09] stakeholder engagement in the
[1:24:11] legal section. and I'll talk
[1:24:12] a little bit more of that about
[1:24:15] that in a minute. these
[1:24:17] designated water districts or or
[1:24:19] management areas we're really
[1:24:20] still interested and hopefully
[1:24:22] some of you are interested in
[1:24:24] exploring measurement
[1:24:26] districts there's other states
[1:24:28] that have all kinds of uses
[1:24:29] and and our employ
[1:24:32] ing these groups in all kinds
[1:24:34] of ways regulatory and non
[1:24:37] regulatory to provide local
[1:24:38] planning infrastructure need
[1:24:40] evaluation aquifer level
[1:24:42] monitoring so really bringing
[1:24:46] it back into local local
[1:24:47] control and local information
[1:24:50] that that that can be used
[1:24:53] some states use these to place
[1:24:54] additional protections on
[1:24:56] specific basins that are showing
[1:24:58] major decline. so that's
[1:24:58] something and you know Oklahoma
[1:24:59] water
[1:25:02] law is is very similar to other
[1:25:04] western water law and so we
[1:25:06] really I'm the just just now
[1:25:08] passed chairman of the
[1:25:08] western state's waterter co
[1:25:10] which is the state engineer's
[1:25:13] offices for all western
[1:25:16] states so these are some
[1:25:18] examples and they're in your
[1:25:19] materials I won't go over them
[1:25:21] but they're virtually every
[1:25:24] western state has some kind of
[1:25:25] formalized management group or
[1:25:28] planning local planning group
[1:25:29] that is
[1:25:32] that has some role in either
[1:25:34] water information or water
[1:25:35] regulation
[1:25:39] this particular one is a
[1:25:40] critical grandmother management
[1:25:43] area. this is oregon I believe.
[1:25:44] I know Sarah had put some
[1:25:46] information together for you a
[1:25:48] few years ago in in this
[1:25:50] particular case there's irri the
[1:25:52] control and then the criteria so
[1:25:55] there's serious water management
[1:25:57] problem areas so the the statute
[1:25:59] has determined that this these
[1:26:02] things will be defined as a
[1:26:04] groundwater basins that have
[1:26:05] critical
[1:26:08] groundwater level decline
[1:26:10] unresolved user disputes or
[1:26:12] frequent water shortages and so
[1:26:14] those are a class of of
[1:26:16] groundwater basins that then can
[1:26:17] have something applied to to
[1:26:17] them
[1:26:20] the critical groundwater
[1:26:22] management area designation
[1:26:24] the commission may rule by rule
[1:26:26] designate the area as critical
[1:26:29] if it is and you can see those
[1:26:31] six looking at groundwater
[1:26:33] decline well interference etc.
[1:26:35] So there are mechanisms to if
[1:26:37] there are particular aquifers in
[1:26:38] the state that you all want to
[1:26:40] protect or that we see that you
[1:26:42] all see are in critical decline
[1:26:45] you can you can designate
[1:26:47] them as as critical areas and
[1:26:47] then
[1:26:52] apply either more you know
[1:26:54] more conserva more funding for
[1:26:56] conservation or for
[1:26:58] additional studies to really
[1:27:00] understand the the area and
[1:27:02] what's going on in those
[1:27:04] areas and then the data and
[1:27:06] information is just that you
[1:27:07] can't manage what you don't
[1:27:08] measure and so we're looking
[1:27:10] we've got a working with the
[1:27:12] Oklahohoma Hydranet through OSU
[1:27:14] and the Oklama mezanett we've
[1:27:15] got a
[1:27:16] our all of our monitoring
[1:27:18] network data goes into this
[1:27:20] system and we're really working
[1:27:22] toward real more real time data
[1:27:25] groundwater levels
[1:27:28] groundwater quality what
[1:27:29] understanding exactly what's
[1:27:30] what's happening in our
[1:27:34] groundwater basins also we
[1:27:34] administer the Oklahoma
[1:27:36] Comprehensivestreamaging
[1:27:37] Network. I won't get into that
[1:27:38] because we're talking about
[1:27:41] groundwater but and then
[1:27:42] also carrying out targeted
[1:27:44] regional and local water
[1:27:44] availability and
[1:27:46] water quality studies so we're
[1:27:48] certainly interested in doing
[1:27:49] that
[1:27:56] so this is a database that
[1:27:58] you that will be available
[1:27:59] online you can go in there and
[1:28:01] we've got 850 active wells in
[1:28:04] this monitoring system so
[1:28:05] you can go in there and
[1:28:06] understand exactly what's
[1:28:08] happening in in those I wanted
[1:28:10] to just briefly talk about North
[1:28:12] Dakota's groundwater monitoring
[1:28:14] network for comparison North
[1:28:16] Dakota monitors about4,000
[1:28:18] groundwater wells compared to
[1:28:20] Oklahoma's 850 wells, about 10
[1:28:22] to15% of those so400
[1:28:26] 500 are actually
[1:28:29] recording realtime data and
[1:28:30] understanding what's happening
[1:28:32] throughout time so that's
[1:28:34] really important but that
[1:28:36] comparison just shows you it's
[1:28:38] you know there are other states
[1:28:39] out there that are really trying
[1:28:41] to understand just like we are
[1:28:41] understand our our monitoring
[1:28:42] network
[1:28:46] so for quickly for legislation
[1:28:47] under the public
[1:28:50] in infrastructure
[1:28:54] again73 million I just listed
[1:28:58] the the different bills 35
[1:28:59] million for this new loan
[1:29:00] program we will be coming back
[1:29:02] to the legislature and and
[1:29:04] really really strongly
[1:29:06] encouraging that to become
[1:29:08] recurring funding it's it's
[1:29:10] worth every penny all the money
[1:29:11] goes back into it to be
[1:29:13] reloaned. We are not taking any
[1:29:14] administrative fee off that at
[1:29:17] all. so it just it's gonna
[1:29:18] integrate right into our
[1:29:20] existing system and databases
[1:29:21] and and workflows
[1:29:24] and that kind of thing so
[1:29:25] director let me interrupt
[1:29:27] uhpresentative Newton has a
[1:29:27] quick question sure
[1:29:31] thank you Mr Chairman. Director
[1:29:32] thank you very much for the
[1:29:34] information on the monitoring
[1:29:36] wells you say there's about 850
[1:29:39] active monitoring wells at the
[1:29:42] current time that we are not
[1:29:44] able to get actual realtime data
[1:29:45] from them at this present time
[1:29:46] is that correct? there's a
[1:29:48] handful and we are moving toward
[1:29:50] that. I believe the number
[1:29:50] was
[1:29:54] 50 or so that we
[1:29:58] that we do have realtime
[1:30:01] information installed but
[1:30:02] that's a very new thing and
[1:30:03] that's working with the
[1:30:04] hydronet. Last year we asked for
[1:30:06] funding for it we didn't get any
[1:30:09] funding so we are that's one
[1:30:11] that we're really interested and
[1:30:12] we're also interested in
[1:30:13] in
[1:30:16] volunteers so we we work with
[1:30:18] landowners on a voluntary
[1:30:20] basis to sign up for this
[1:30:22] program and allow us to come out
[1:30:24] and and install these wells and
[1:30:25] really do that monitoring. So
[1:30:26] it's just really important I
[1:30:28] think that's that we've we've
[1:30:30] gotten really good
[1:30:32] participation from landowners
[1:30:34] but it's still majority vast
[1:30:35] majority of the state is is
[1:30:35] privately owned as you know.
[1:30:38] Paula OK he has a follow up and
[1:30:40] then after him representative
[1:30:42] Dobritsky has a question you're
[1:30:44] next. I mean he's got a follow
[1:30:46] up and then you're next
[1:30:50] so on these aquifers let's
[1:30:52] just use the ogallala since it's
[1:30:53] a big one that's been mentioned
[1:30:54] a lot. how many how many wells
[1:30:56] do we have on theogallala
[1:30:57] monitoring wells don't know that
[1:31:01] mean I can get you that
[1:31:02] information you can get that for
[1:31:03] me thank you thank you
[1:31:09] Thank you director for being
[1:31:10] here and I realize this is
[1:31:14] always challenging and we've
[1:31:15] we've been having this
[1:31:15] conversation for quite some time
[1:31:19] currently one thing that has
[1:31:21] changed in the state is interest
[1:31:21] in data centers
[1:31:25] and a lot of anxiety and
[1:31:27] misinformation surrounding those
[1:31:28] as well
[1:31:31] google recently took the lead by
[1:31:34] announcing the $30 million
[1:31:35] investment in water
[1:31:36] infrastructure in our state
[1:31:39] uh2.3 of which is going directly
[1:31:41] towards cedar removal my
[1:31:42] question to you other states are
[1:31:43] proposing
[1:31:48] a use tax specifically on water
[1:31:51] usage for data centers that
[1:31:54] that could go toward water
[1:31:56] resources board DEQ maybe
[1:31:56] conservation commission
[1:31:59] do you feel like
[1:32:03] now would be the time to pursue
[1:32:05] something new like that that
[1:32:07] would create additional funding
[1:32:08] for our state whenever the
[1:32:09] demand seems to be
[1:32:12] full full speed ahead for those
[1:32:14] type centers yes thank you for
[1:32:14] that question. I know we are
[1:32:16] getting a a lot of calls and
[1:32:18] actually this is a good time to
[1:32:19] plug the governor's water
[1:32:20] conference we host in December
[1:32:21] we're having a session on data
[1:32:22] centers so I hope you all can
[1:32:26] come but yeah I think
[1:32:29] certainly we we did a study
[1:32:31] for the water infrastructure
[1:32:34] piece on additional ways to
[1:32:36] leverage and and one of those is
[1:32:38] looking for instance, looking at
[1:32:39] the city of New
[1:32:41] Orleans is looking at hotel
[1:32:46] taxes to to pay for water
[1:32:47] planning and water
[1:32:49] infrastructure in that area so I
[1:32:51] think yes that you know not
[1:32:52] not only the infrastructure
[1:32:54] piece but also the
[1:32:56] implementation of more, you
[1:32:57] know, monitoring things like
[1:33:00] that. I think that's a great
[1:33:01] opportunity not not to single
[1:33:03] anyone industry out but you
[1:33:06] know I think we're you all
[1:33:08] certainly have your work cut out
[1:33:09] for you as this this data center
[1:33:12] industry develops and we
[1:33:14] certainly don't want you know
[1:33:16] municipalities or counties to
[1:33:18] miss out on opportunities if
[1:33:20] they can be done done safely
[1:33:22] and and
[1:33:24] so appreciate that answer and
[1:33:26] and look forward to the
[1:33:28] governor's water conference
[1:33:30] again this year three weeks from
[1:33:31] today utilities committee will
[1:33:34] host an interim study on data
[1:33:35] centers though I thought I'd
[1:33:36] just throw that bomb in the room
[1:33:38] here so that everybody has kind
[1:33:39] of three weeks to
[1:33:42] digest that and and be prepared
[1:33:44] and may I ask Mr Neal one
[1:33:45] question then I'll be done. Yes
[1:33:46] you bet you recognized for a
[1:33:47] follow up
[1:33:51] ri and I greatly appreciate your
[1:33:53] work last week navigating that
[1:33:54] very fun
[1:33:58] s it wasn't fun very
[1:34:00] interesting meeting between the
[1:34:02] Oklahoma City Water Trust in the
[1:34:03] Canton Lake association
[1:34:06] it
[1:34:12] please to clarify what I think I
[1:34:13] heard in that meeting last week
[1:34:17] we're we're foregoing the 30
[1:34:20] days notice from the meeting to
[1:34:22] the water release in this case
[1:34:22] because we feel like it's an
[1:34:26] emergency but wasn't isn't there
[1:34:28] in place active water
[1:34:31] restrictions in Oklahoma City
[1:34:32] before a release can take place
[1:34:36] from what I understand yes the
[1:34:38] Oklahoma's Oklama City has put
[1:34:40] in place watering lawn watering
[1:34:45] restrictions I believe they
[1:34:48] put those in place in the2010
[1:34:50] to201f r drought and left those
[1:34:52] in place so they are always
[1:34:54] under some form of water
[1:34:56] restrictions in Oklahoma City.
[1:34:58] thank you for that clarification
[1:34:59] would you be surprised
[1:35:02] I I have some millennials that
[1:35:06] I used to be responsible for
[1:35:08] they got out on their own that
[1:35:10] is a resident of Oklahoma City
[1:35:12] for seven years and claims that
[1:35:15] he has never seen anything in
[1:35:16] his water bill or any
[1:35:19] communication from Oklahoma City
[1:35:21] regarding water restriction at
[1:35:22] his residence
[1:35:24] would you believe that
[1:35:25] if
[1:35:28] you don't have ok thank you
[1:35:32] ok we have one more question and
[1:35:34] keep in mindpresentative we are
[1:35:36] running short on time thank you
[1:35:37] Mr chairirman. I just I want to
[1:35:38] know this this for you that I
[1:35:40] wanted to touch on this you
[1:35:41] talked about the Oklahoma
[1:35:41] cityity and the canton lake
[1:35:44] so could I could you give me a
[1:35:45] best guess estimate
[1:35:49] if how much water leaves
[1:35:51] canton lake how much of it will
[1:35:52] actually wind up in Lake
[1:35:54] heffnerner Oklahoma City's
[1:35:56] requested 16,000 acre feet to be
[1:36:00] released from canton Lake we
[1:36:03] can do an estimate one of the
[1:36:04] things that we were going to do
[1:36:06] from the last release is go back
[1:36:07] and look at how much they were
[1:36:09] able to capture so they could
[1:36:10] probably capture anywhere from40
[1:36:13] to60% of that I believe is
[1:36:15] probably reasonable depending on
[1:36:15] the conditions if it rains
[1:36:18] how hot it's been, those types
[1:36:20] of things and they do a
[1:36:22] calculation and they also have
[1:36:24] in the agreement there's
[1:36:26] water restrictions and things
[1:36:27] like that they're spelled out in
[1:36:28] that agreement so we can take a
[1:36:30] look at that. Director, could
[1:36:31] you raise your mic a little?
[1:36:33] you're just a little quiet yes
[1:36:36] sir thank you ok so I am zipping
[1:36:40] through these so again
[1:36:42] this this past session we did
[1:36:44] request dam safety and
[1:36:45] floodplain funding we are by
[1:36:46] the
[1:36:50] way the ranked the last state
[1:36:55] 50th in the country for the
[1:36:58] number of engineers and and
[1:36:59] employees in the in that damn
[1:37:01] safety program. so it really
[1:37:03] emphasizes these these programs
[1:37:04] have just limped along and we're
[1:37:08] we are we are raising
[1:37:09] interest in those again I will
[1:37:10] say the hazard mitigation loan
[1:37:12] programme on the right under
[1:37:14] status that is something that
[1:37:15] you all created a few years
[1:37:15] ago
[1:37:18] and have continued to put $1
[1:37:20] million I think we're on year
[1:37:22] three of four that money we've
[1:37:24] just received notice from FEMA
[1:37:26] last week. there's going to
[1:37:28] be280 million dollars available
[1:37:32] nationwide and it is a 10 to1
[1:37:35] state to federal match. so every
[1:37:38] $1 the federal government will
[1:37:39] put in $10. they've encouraged
[1:37:42] us to ask for all40 million and
[1:37:43] we are going to do that so
[1:37:44] that's going to be some great
[1:37:45] leverage and really an
[1:37:45] infusion
[1:37:50] of funding that is really
[1:37:51] important for hazard mitigation
[1:37:54] and flood control the the
[1:37:57] the very last item Okhoma Occ
[1:37:57] flood controlled damm
[1:38:00] rehabilitation the the water
[1:38:01] plant specifically supported
[1:38:03] this in the in the
[1:38:04] recommendations I believe the
[1:38:07] number was2.7 million that
[1:38:09] that that programme received
[1:38:12] last year. Again the umer
[1:38:14] invasive species received about
[1:38:15] 3.7 million
[1:38:19] last year maxim man your
[1:38:20] yields this is something that we
[1:38:22] use gross production tax for and
[1:38:26] that was renewed for fiveyear
[1:38:28] extension so that's fantastic
[1:38:30] and then water law monetization
[1:38:33] we did ask for well drillers
[1:38:36] remedial fund and a statewide
[1:38:38] water well spacing. So now
[1:38:40] anywhere in the state if
[1:38:42] someone comes and tries to drill
[1:38:44] a well they they have to
[1:38:45] recognize the state this spacing
[1:38:48] requirements so I think that's
[1:38:49] very very helpful when it comes
[1:38:51] to protecting private wells so
[1:38:52] these are my last two sides so
[1:38:55] the remaining priorities that
[1:38:57] we see and that we are kind of
[1:38:59] rising up to the top in addition
[1:39:00] to everything we've talked about
[1:39:02] today expanding capacity of
[1:39:04] our infrastructure programs so
[1:39:06] we certainly are going to be
[1:39:08] requesting that 35 million
[1:39:12] become recurring and there was
[1:39:14] another 10 infusion for our
[1:39:15] longstanding reap grant program
[1:39:18] we think that is money very well
[1:39:20] spent and and upping the
[1:39:22] technical assistance to these
[1:39:24] smaller systems for
[1:39:26] capital improvements
[1:39:30] planning they several years ago
[1:39:32] you the the it was actually a
[1:39:34] state question that created this
[1:39:35] water infrastructure credit
[1:39:37] enhancement reserve fund so what
[1:39:39] that did is it allows the
[1:39:41] waterboard to use the backing of
[1:39:44] the state to further leverage
[1:39:48] our programs and increases
[1:39:50] our security from any kind of
[1:39:52] risk of default we've had zero
[1:39:56] defaults through the 30 years of
[1:39:57] these of these loan programs
[1:39:58] but what we're going to be
[1:40:00] planning on doing is coming back
[1:40:02] to the legislature this year and
[1:40:05] asking to up that so we've never
[1:40:06] touched it it's not it's not
[1:40:08] something that we anticipate
[1:40:10] ever touching but for the rating
[1:40:12] agents agencies for Standard and
[1:40:14] pooror's and Moody and Fitch
[1:40:16] they look at that and in
[1:40:18] their consideration of our
[1:40:20] leveragging those programs so
[1:40:22] that's something that we feel
[1:40:24] like that you all can do and it
[1:40:25] won't won't require funding
[1:40:30] d d re s s drought and flood
[1:40:30] drought and flooding by supreme
[1:40:32] reoccurring appropriations again
[1:40:34] for their damn safety and
[1:40:36] theokklahoma flood plan which
[1:40:38] was required to be created by us
[1:40:41] through Senate bill 1269 back
[1:40:44] in2020 and has yet to receive
[1:40:45] funding but we've pieced
[1:40:49] together some funding from
[1:40:52] the apps several other agencies
[1:40:54] and federal federal funding
[1:40:54] emergency management Department
[1:40:55] ofcomerce
[1:40:59] has some funding complete the
[1:41:00] groth the maximum annual yields
[1:41:02] thatri mentioned so we have that
[1:41:04] list and we are blazing through
[1:41:06] that list really looking
[1:41:08] forward to getting out there and
[1:41:10] finalizing that public process
[1:41:12] and and yield determination and
[1:41:14] then statewide groundwater
[1:41:16] monitoring certainly is
[1:41:17] foundational baseline
[1:41:21] information that we really
[1:41:22] really need to manage these
[1:41:24] aquifers. and and then again
[1:41:26] support regional regional
[1:41:28] planning local local planning
[1:41:30] initiatives and advancing
[1:41:32] precision agriculture. So those
[1:41:36] are the things that we have we
[1:41:38] have certainly kept on the on
[1:41:40] the high priority list and then
[1:41:41] itpresentative Newton we've
[1:41:44] talked about these these
[1:41:46] few things so really for
[1:41:46] groundwater permitting
[1:41:47] considering legislation
[1:41:47] requiring metering
[1:41:51] for new permits so that's
[1:41:53] something right now that
[1:41:55] could certainly be implemented
[1:41:57] so permitting I mean metering
[1:41:58] would not be required for
[1:42:00] existing permit holders but any
[1:42:02] new permit applications or in
[1:42:04] certain groundwater basins
[1:42:06] even critical basins you
[1:42:09] could certainly explore
[1:42:10] requiring me metering for those
[1:42:12] new applications. consider
[1:42:14] legislation on the use of
[1:42:17] aquifer depletion levels as
[1:42:17] triggers for issuance of new
[1:42:18] permits
[1:42:22] so this is something we did for
[1:42:24] surface water in certain basins
[1:42:26] is creating trigger lake level
[1:42:29] triggers in those basins that
[1:42:32] then require conservation
[1:42:34] exploring local control again
[1:42:36] we've mentioned that exploring
[1:42:39] waste violations overuse
[1:42:42] without a permit offsets through
[1:42:44] master irrigators courses system
[1:42:46] efficiency audits installation
[1:42:47] of meters. So really any any of
[1:42:48] these violator
[1:42:51] s that we we are finding through
[1:42:54] SB259 which requires us to
[1:42:58] to take enforcement action it
[1:43:00] doesn't say the waterboardme it
[1:43:01] says they shall
[1:43:03] and so we're trying to be
[1:43:04] creative and and you know if if
[1:43:08] we do find cases of waste
[1:43:09] which means using water without
[1:43:12] a permit and and or wasting
[1:43:14] water then maybe requiring folks
[1:43:15] to go through those some of
[1:43:17] those some of those other
[1:43:18] classes are looking at helping
[1:43:20] them with system audits
[1:43:24] to find those those water
[1:43:25] conservation
[1:43:28] opportunities and then
[1:43:30] expanding monitoring and then
[1:43:32] this last one water education
[1:43:33] and outreach were really really
[1:43:34] interested in that the state of
[1:43:36] Texas has spent a lot of money
[1:43:39] the last year on developing
[1:43:42] water education programs as you
[1:43:44] all know water law is extremely
[1:43:45] complicated and there are so
[1:43:47] many so much speculations and
[1:43:49] it's just personal you know it's
[1:43:50] you're affecting my water even
[1:43:52] though legally it may not be
[1:43:54] your water it's very personal so
[1:43:55] I think the more we can get out
[1:43:55] there and
[1:43:57] and educate on so many
[1:43:58] different levels I would love to
[1:44:00] to do a series for for the
[1:44:02] legislature as well so that's
[1:44:03] all I have
[1:44:06] I will take any questions thank
[1:44:08] you director we we are out of
[1:44:10] time but we do have one pressing
[1:44:11] question by Representative Hill
[1:44:11] you're recognized
[1:44:14] thank you Mr Chairman greatly
[1:44:16] appreciated Directorcunningham
[1:44:18] thank you for being here had
[1:44:19] the opportunity to kind of watch
[1:44:20] it as I was coming from a town
[1:44:22] hall in my district the
[1:44:24] curiosity that I have is back on
[1:44:25] number4 if you could go back one
[1:44:26] slide
[1:44:29] on the water monitoring
[1:44:30] information for decision support
[1:44:33] and planning assistance going
[1:44:35] to the chairman's question
[1:44:38] regarding data centers which
[1:44:40] seems to be our new hot topic
[1:44:42] that everyone likes to bring up
[1:44:44] in every town hall we're in
[1:44:46] curiosity if in your
[1:44:48] executive summary report if it
[1:44:50] did an observation of the
[1:44:52] difference in water consumption
[1:44:54] between a data center and a
[1:44:55] manufacturing facility
[1:44:59] were you able to have y'all done
[1:45:00] that type of study? do you have
[1:45:04] an ongoing study as thats
[1:45:06] issue keeps coming up. Sure so
[1:45:07] we we did not
[1:45:11] dive into data centers through
[1:45:13] that plan we we have we could
[1:45:15] certainly do that and I think it
[1:45:17] would be interesting andris ifri
[1:45:19] has any input on monitoring
[1:45:21] but that is certainly something
[1:45:23] you know if you can get ahead of
[1:45:24] something if it's it we try to
[1:45:27] mimic the natural flows and by
[1:45:29] removing what you know on
[1:45:31] paper when we do our modeling
[1:45:32] removing those uses so if you
[1:45:34] can get ahead of it and really
[1:45:36] understand what's happening.
[1:45:37] I think that's that's very good
[1:45:38] yep.
[1:45:41] I'd also like to point out the
[1:45:43] data center information sorry
[1:45:45] I just jumped in here but the
[1:45:47] data center issues didn't
[1:45:49] start coming up in Oklahoma
[1:45:51] until we were kind of finalizing
[1:45:53] the Okoma conference of our
[1:45:55] plan. I'll note here that data
[1:45:57] centers may be used 1 to5
[1:45:59] million gallons of water per day
[1:46:02] could be more the city of Norman
[1:46:04] for an example in the wintertime
[1:46:06] uses about 10 million gallons of
[1:46:07] water a day and in the
[1:46:08] summertime that kicks
[1:46:11] up to about22 to25 million
[1:46:11] gallons of water per day
[1:46:15] so just for some references
[1:46:17] there that's about how much
[1:46:19] water is used you know for the
[1:46:21] city of Norman how much water
[1:46:23] data centers use just throw that
[1:46:23] out there
[1:46:28] one follow up thank you we're
[1:46:30] out of time you bet thank you Mr
[1:46:31] chairirman landed the plane here
[1:46:33] for those that will continue
[1:46:35] to be here in the decisions that
[1:46:36] they're going to have to make
[1:46:38] in the year to follow. I
[1:46:40] would just ask that as we're
[1:46:42] considering the importance of
[1:46:44] food being homeland security so
[1:46:46] is data supremacy is homeland
[1:46:48] security as we're proving on the
[1:46:49] southern border right now and so
[1:46:52] I would just ask that that be
[1:46:53] something that y'all would look
[1:46:54] into as those compar
[1:46:57] able s because I think that
[1:46:58] information is going to be
[1:47:00] extremely relevant to the
[1:47:01] decisions our great state's
[1:47:02] about to make thank you thank
[1:47:03] you Mr chairman.
[1:47:04] right thank you sir
[1:47:07] thank you thank you doctorctor
[1:47:08] Cunningham and thank you
[1:47:11] division chief Neil thank you
[1:47:12] very much for your presentation
[1:47:15] very informative. would like
[1:47:17] to call to the table
[1:47:21] executive director Dwayne Smith
[1:47:24] from the OA institute and then
[1:47:26] also I think Mr McClintock
[1:47:28] are you going to present or are
[1:47:29] you just gonna let him do it?
[1:47:32] right. Schmith you're recognized
[1:47:34] to present talk about water
[1:47:36] planning and the water
[1:47:38] sustainability so we are
[1:47:40] privileged to have you here and
[1:47:41] thank you very much for being
[1:47:43] here. Tell us what's your job
[1:47:44] title is exactly and then I'll
[1:47:45] turn it over to you
[1:47:48] now in my life
[1:47:52] good morning good to be here
[1:47:54] and Julie thanks for only
[1:47:55] leaving me 10 minutes. I
[1:47:57] appreciate that that's that's
[1:47:57] the
[1:48:00] so formerly I was the executive
[1:48:01] director of the Oklahoma
[1:48:02] waterter Resources Board I was
[1:48:04] there for 1w2 years retired from
[1:48:05] the state in2010
[1:48:10] went to Afghanistan with the
[1:48:11] corps of engineers did water
[1:48:12] planning in afghanistan so I'll
[1:48:14] share some stories about
[1:48:15] afghanistan and
[1:48:15] northwestokklahoma
[1:48:20] and now I am the executive
[1:48:22] director of the Oa institute OCa
[1:48:24] is the Choctaw and Chickasaw
[1:48:26] word for water so the water
[1:48:26] institute at the Central
[1:48:27] University.
[1:48:30] I will say for our OSU fans our
[1:48:33] colors are orange and black so
[1:48:34] we're the bright orange at the
[1:48:35] central
[1:48:36] and
[1:48:38] oh man
[1:48:40] yeah there's a
[1:48:42] yes
[1:48:48] and so I also do consulting work
[1:48:50] in my past I've done regional
[1:48:51] water planning I'm gonna talk a
[1:48:52] little bit about that all over
[1:48:54] Oklahoma I want to talk about
[1:48:55] the results of some of those
[1:48:56] so that's who I am
[1:49:01] and I'll go through very briefly
[1:49:03] some of my slides and let me
[1:49:10] Julie
[1:49:15] there we go so the Oak institute
[1:49:18] was established in2016 and Susan
[1:49:20] Paddock was the original
[1:49:22] director of the Oa institute
[1:49:23] former state senator from Ada
[1:49:28] and it was funded and started a
[1:49:30] unique partnership between the
[1:49:31] Chickasaw nation and the city of
[1:49:34] Ada and East Central University
[1:49:35] and the goal was to be able to
[1:49:36] provide
[1:49:40] support for sustainable water
[1:49:41] policy.
[1:49:44] as a part of that we established
[1:49:46] not only the Oa institute as a
[1:49:48] part of a technical group but a
[1:49:50] water master's program
[1:49:53] Do Pappas is here who heads
[1:49:56] up the water masters program in
[1:49:58] water management and policy at
[1:49:58] East Central University we have
[1:50:00] a number of graduates that are
[1:50:04] working across Oklahoma in
[1:50:04] water policy and management
[1:50:10] So why must we plan for
[1:50:12] sustainability and the first
[1:50:12] thing I want to do is address
[1:50:15] the sustainability word because
[1:50:15] it's it's not
[1:50:20] some people use that word in
[1:50:22] ways that I wanna make sure that
[1:50:23] you understand how I intend that
[1:50:23] word to be used
[1:50:27] sustainability can be replaced
[1:50:27] with reliability
[1:50:32] it's essential for economic
[1:50:35] development so water has to go
[1:50:37] hand in hand with economic
[1:50:38] development it's got to go with
[1:50:39] the money
[1:50:42] and so as we talk through this I
[1:50:43] want to make sure that
[1:50:48] that we don't use this word
[1:50:49] in in different ways that might
[1:50:50] mean different things for
[1:50:52] purposes of my discussion it's
[1:50:53] really about economic
[1:50:55] development. I look at the 1und0
[1:50:56] year hydrograph in Oklahoma
[1:51:00] and in 1957 was our worst
[1:51:01] drought of record and if you
[1:51:04] look back in that time before
[1:51:06] you know the 1980s
[1:51:08] most of our history was drought
[1:51:11] and since that time
[1:51:15] it's been the longest wettest
[1:51:15] period in our history
[1:51:20] so I tell people that I started
[1:51:22] at the waterboard and it in in
[1:51:23] the 1980s
[1:51:28] and I left at2010 so I take
[1:51:30] credit for the longest wettest
[1:51:31] period in Oklahoma's history
[1:51:35] but with that comes a lot of
[1:51:35] things
[1:51:38] when we were in that long
[1:51:41] drought and in 1957 that's when
[1:51:42] the water board was formed
[1:51:44] that's when the Texas waterter
[1:51:46] Development Board was formed it
[1:51:48] was a devastating piece we had
[1:51:50] gone through the dirty thirties
[1:51:52] now we're in the fiftiess the
[1:51:53] worst drought ever
[1:51:55] that's when
[1:52:00] Bob Kerr started talking about
[1:52:02] federal reservoirs we had ive
[1:52:04] bureau of reclamation reservoirs
[1:52:06] built26 corps of engineers
[1:52:07] reservoirs all of these
[1:52:08] reservoirs that we enjoy today
[1:52:14] came from the realization that
[1:52:15] we had to survive a drought
[1:52:20] so now we come forward and we
[1:52:22] went into our longest wettest
[1:52:23] period in history
[1:52:25] and what we did was became
[1:52:25] complacent
[1:52:29] we thought that this was our
[1:52:31] normal this is one thing we have
[1:52:31] to understand about water
[1:52:36] waterter is so local and it's so
[1:52:38] unique to us we looked about
[1:52:39] surviving
[1:52:42] turning on our tap when we want
[1:52:44] water turning on our shower when
[1:52:46] we want to take a shower or
[1:52:48] irrigating through a drought or
[1:52:50] we we don't think about this
[1:52:51] generationally
[1:52:54] this is where the water
[1:52:55] resources boardard plays a vital
[1:52:55] role
[1:52:58] all of that comprehensive water
[1:53:00] planning stuff that you see
[1:53:02] talking about how much water can
[1:53:04] be pumped per acre over a period
[1:53:05] of time
[1:53:05] is really
[1:53:08] a long term plan for that
[1:53:14] the local plans come locally
[1:53:16] with a community or with a
[1:53:16] region or with an irrigator
[1:53:19] and so when this was formed
[1:53:22] this
[1:53:25] was the hydrograph that formed
[1:53:28] the basis of our water policy as
[1:53:29] we see it
[1:53:34] inadequate inadequacies in
[1:53:36] Oklahoma's water law the water
[1:53:37] laws are what they are
[1:53:40] let's don't blame the water
[1:53:41] board for the inaccuracies or
[1:53:43] inadequacies in the water law
[1:53:44] theres there's the law they're
[1:53:45] the policy that's set
[1:53:48] but we started with a
[1:53:51] conservation statute and back in
[1:53:54] the seventiess and60s there was
[1:53:56] a water law advisory group that
[1:53:58] was formed that was included the
[1:54:00] major industries in Oklahoma
[1:54:01] OG&E Farm Bureau
[1:54:06] a bunch of them and they got
[1:54:09] together and they said that we
[1:54:10] have to have a utilization
[1:54:12] statute we can't we can't
[1:54:16] irrigate in the panhandle if we
[1:54:17] have a conservation statute the
[1:54:17] science is clear
[1:54:21] the science is clear you get one
[1:54:22] inch of recharge in the ogallala
[1:54:25] if you're going to raise corn
[1:54:26] you're going to use24 to30
[1:54:26] inches
[1:54:30] Right? so so the water levels
[1:54:31] going down
[1:54:34] let's don't I don't know that
[1:54:36] anybody should be surprised
[1:54:38] today to say we have a mining
[1:54:39] statute I would say that mining
[1:54:40] statute's working
[1:54:40] we're mining the groundwater
[1:54:46] This was really
[1:54:48] the public policy at the time
[1:54:52] we want this to be a private
[1:54:53] property right
[1:54:56] we're gonna to allocate your
[1:54:57] water and you can do with that
[1:54:58] water what you want to do with
[1:54:59] it
[1:55:02] the public policy what we heard
[1:55:04] from the panhandle landowners
[1:55:06] what we heard from irrigators
[1:55:08] particularly were that they
[1:55:10] needed two acre feet of water to
[1:55:11] irrigate crops
[1:55:15] So what happened as a matter of
[1:55:16] laws we're going to have a
[1:55:18] mining statute we're going to
[1:55:20] allow mining to happen but the
[1:55:22] realization of that was we were
[1:55:25] going to have a 1980 water plan
[1:55:27] that moved water from eastern
[1:55:29] Oklahoma to the west so that
[1:55:32] when we had those declines we
[1:55:34] could mitigate those declines
[1:55:35] with transferring water from
[1:55:36] easternokklahoma to western
[1:55:38] Oklahoma and if you look at the
[1:55:40] 1980 plan there's a northern
[1:55:42] transfer there's a central
[1:55:42] transfer and a southern
[1:55:45] transfer taking water all the
[1:55:46] way to the panhandle
[1:55:52] So what we see is a policy that
[1:55:53] allows for mining but the
[1:55:54] mitigation strategy
[1:55:57] of moving water is
[1:56:00] billions of dollars today
[1:56:04] and can you imagine pumping
[1:56:06] water from southeast Oklahoma
[1:56:07] from some reservoir
[1:56:08] to irrigate
[1:56:12] in the panhand or to irrigate in
[1:56:13] southwest Oklahoma
[1:56:14] when
[1:56:19] it a billions of dollars it will
[1:56:19] have to be publicly
[1:56:22] subsidized in order to do that
[1:56:24] what we're seeing though
[1:56:28] is those water transfers are
[1:56:29] viable in some areas Oklahoma
[1:56:30] City ista water from Sardis Lake
[1:56:35] en n id from carrreservoir you
[1:56:36] know we have the we have some of
[1:56:38] this transfer going but it's
[1:56:39] around a corner
[1:56:43] stone piece that can afford that
[1:56:44] can provide the economic
[1:56:45] viability to that
[1:56:48] so the question becomes well
[1:56:49] what do we do with agriculture
[1:56:53] and I would say you look at
[1:56:55] Oklahoma panhandle look at
[1:56:56] Texas, look at Kansas
[1:56:59] Kansas is public water supply
[1:56:59] it's not private
[1:57:03] go forbid that Oklahoma would go
[1:57:06] make their water public
[1:57:08] our surface water's public our
[1:57:09] groundwater's private
[1:57:10] Texas
[1:57:13] different laws in multiple
[1:57:14] states and the declines are all
[1:57:15] very similar.
[1:57:20] so when you allow irrigation of
[1:57:24] corn or crops in the panhandle
[1:57:26] regardless of what your statute
[1:57:28] is regardless of your management
[1:57:30] plan regardless of your metering
[1:57:31] you're going to see water level
[1:57:31] declines in the panhandle
[1:57:35] and that's what we see that was
[1:57:35] very clear in the eightiess
[1:57:36] and it's very clear today
[1:57:40] what the irrigators have done in
[1:57:41] the panhandle
[1:57:45] is made their efficiency they
[1:57:46] really spent money on
[1:57:46] efficiencies
[1:57:50] so when you look at an irrigator
[1:57:52] today and they they know how
[1:57:53] much water they're using they
[1:57:54] know what their water levels are
[1:57:58] they know what that is they know
[1:58:00] that if they irrigate one piece
[1:58:01] of property over here
[1:58:06] or another 10 acres over here
[1:58:07] they know what the water needs
[1:58:08] are on those particular 10 acre
[1:58:09] tracts
[1:58:11] and they sense those and they
[1:58:13] they manage those in such a way
[1:58:14] to extend that water as long as
[1:58:15] possible
[1:58:20] if we were to change the policy
[1:58:20] and say oh well now you
[1:58:24] can't irrigate or you can't do
[1:58:25] that the economic
[1:58:28] piece of that initially would it
[1:58:29] it is
[1:58:32] is a great economic loss
[1:58:37] so some of the discussion has
[1:58:38] been around meeting should we
[1:58:39] require require meters
[1:58:42] so I'm not the director of the
[1:58:44] water board anymore so I can
[1:58:45] have an opinion on that.
[1:58:50] I believe that water metering
[1:58:52] isn't to make an irrigator more
[1:58:53] efficient
[1:58:58] if they needed a meter to make
[1:58:59] their their system more
[1:58:59] efficient they'd have one
[1:59:03] they're efficient because they
[1:59:05] know how much they're pumping
[1:59:07] and they are saving pennies on
[1:59:07] the bushel
[1:59:08] to make money
[1:59:12] so you don't see 40 acre
[1:59:12] corn
[1:59:17] farms anymore right they're
[1:59:18] they're they're hundreds and
[1:59:21] thousands of acres and and if an
[1:59:22] irrigator can make a penny a
[1:59:25] bushel or two pennies a bushel
[1:59:27] I've heard them talk about this
[1:59:28] if they can make that kind of a
[1:59:30] difference they can make money
[1:59:32] the smaller ones can't we're
[1:59:34] it's it's now it's become bigger
[1:59:36] because of the economics of it
[1:59:40] if they use less water that's
[1:59:40] less money they spend on
[1:59:41] pumping.
[1:59:49] One thing our laws don't do is
[1:59:50] look at the environmental
[1:59:51] benefit
[1:59:54] so when you look at a stream
[1:59:56] water permit and you look at
[1:59:57] beneficial uses
[2:00:00] we don't take into account the
[2:00:02] nonconsumptive use what is that
[2:00:04] nonconsumptive use fish and
[2:00:05] wildlife etc
[2:00:07] some people say well we don't
[2:00:08] want to prioritize fish over
[2:00:09] people.
[2:00:12] but I would submit to you that
[2:00:14] if you remove the fish
[2:00:18] and you remove the environmental
[2:00:19] benefit of our water
[2:00:22] you don't have a reliable system
[2:00:26] you don't have a reliable system
[2:00:28] for withdrawals for industry for
[2:00:29] cities or irrigators
[2:00:32] so it has to be taken into
[2:00:36] account is one priority take it
[2:00:37] into account we shouldn't be
[2:00:37] afraid of that analysis
[2:00:42] Water sustainability
[2:00:46] I look at thelue river we've
[2:00:47] done a recent economic study on
[2:00:47] the Blueriver
[2:00:52] $1.5 billion of economic benefit
[2:00:53] in thelue river.
[2:00:58] and the reason for that is that
[2:01:02] thelue river is reliable it's a
[2:01:03] perennial stream it's not
[2:01:03] intermittent
[2:01:07] it that provides the reliability
[2:01:09] for the city of Durant it
[2:01:10] provides the reliability for
[2:01:13] cattle producers to water
[2:01:17] it reply it supplies the
[2:01:19] reliability for the recreation
[2:01:20] and tourism that comes with that
[2:01:23] if you were to use the
[2:01:24] Oklahoma's current water law
[2:01:28] in appropriate 100% of the
[2:01:31] average annual flow you could
[2:01:34] make it's possible you could
[2:01:34] make thelue river intermittent
[2:01:38] you've impacted $1.5 billion
[2:01:40] of economic impact
[2:01:45] my recommendation is we need to
[2:01:45] consider
[2:01:50] those nonconsumptive uses as we
[2:01:52] look at water rights I'm not
[2:01:52] saying that you
[2:01:56] those need to be considered and
[2:01:57] they need to be considered from
[2:01:57] an economic
[2:01:58] impact.
[2:02:04] The water board has made very
[2:02:05] strong progress
[2:02:07] and and I want to go through an
[2:02:07] example
[2:02:15] and of course communities aging
[2:02:16] infrastructures the huge deal
[2:02:18] and I'm gonna talk a little bit
[2:02:20] about what I think is a major
[2:02:21] policy proposal on communities
[2:02:26] so these are the water plans
[2:02:27] that I have done
[2:02:30] so the panhandle regional water
[2:02:31] plan northwestokklahoma
[2:02:33] actionlan oss reservoir drought
[2:02:34] contingency plan
[2:02:37] southwestokklahoma water supply
[2:02:38] and the Choctaw Chickasaw
[2:02:39] regiongal water planin.
[2:02:43] and out of these there's been
[2:02:44] over a billion dollars of
[2:02:46] economic investment out of these
[2:02:48] plans I want to say that not one
[2:02:51] penny of state money has gone to
[2:02:51] these re this regional planning
[2:02:54] in southwest Oklahoma
[2:03:00] they wanted this was in2011 when
[2:03:01] they had the big drought and as
[2:03:04] you recall they thought then
[2:03:06] that lugeralus reservoir would
[2:03:07] never fail again.
[2:03:09] and ir0 days later it was
[2:03:09] overflowing
[2:03:15] the panhandle region Chris Neal
[2:03:17] put together some maps you know
[2:03:19] in June of'73 31 permits
[2:03:22] now 10,000 permits statewide
[2:03:24] we've seen those maps
[2:03:27] now we see the declines
[2:03:32] I I want to ask you what does
[2:03:32] the next 50 years hold?
[2:03:42] Our northwest water action plan
[2:03:44] Julie talked about the car
[2:03:46] reservoir pipeline that came out
[2:03:47] of the northwest waterter action
[2:03:47] plan
[2:03:50] that was that group of
[2:03:52] communities and rural water
[2:03:54] districts supported that plan
[2:03:55] with the city ofennid
[2:03:58] it was hard for the city of Enid
[2:04:00] to get that passed the water
[2:04:01] rates had to go up
[2:04:03] it was very difficult to do that
[2:04:08] but the reality was they were on
[2:04:09] groundwater
[2:04:11] I was the original hearing
[2:04:14] examiner on Enid's groundwater
[2:04:15] permit back in the eighties
[2:04:18] they thought that the
[2:04:18] groundwater was going to be
[2:04:19] their long term supply
[2:04:24] They had groundwater declines
[2:04:25] and high nitrates
[2:04:27] they had to go to carr reservoir
[2:04:32] $350 million to provide a
[2:04:33] reliable water supply
[2:04:37] southwestokklahoma we talked a
[2:04:39] little bit about Lugardaus and
[2:04:40] some of the landowners
[2:04:41] you know
[2:04:42] the science is clear
[2:04:46] if you take water above in the
[2:04:48] alluvial deposits above our
[2:04:49] reservoirs the science is very
[2:04:49] clear
[2:04:51] you're going to impact the yield
[2:04:52] of the reservoir
[2:04:55] when you look at Tom Steed
[2:04:58] reservoir. I think the most
[2:04:58] important water supply in
[2:05:00] southwest Oklahoma because it
[2:05:02] supplies water to Alus Alus Air
[2:05:03] forcece Base.
[2:05:05] Frederick
[2:05:06] Schnyder
[2:05:12] if you were to fully implement
[2:05:13] the Oklahoma water law
[2:05:15] appropriate a 100% of the firm
[2:05:15] yield
[2:05:20] of 100% of the flow above
[2:05:21] tomsteed reservoir that would
[2:05:23] reduce the firm yield of steed
[2:05:24] to virtually zero
[2:05:25] the science is clear
[2:05:30] so what the water board did
[2:05:32] after after eight years of study
[2:05:33] with the Bureau of Reclamation
[2:05:34] in local folks as they
[2:05:35] implemented a rule
[2:05:39] to look at how we protect
[2:05:40] Tomsteed reservoir and Lugudaus
[2:05:44] first time the water board's
[2:05:45] done that to protect a reservoir
[2:05:48] a very positive move for that
[2:05:50] now
[2:05:54] the city of Altis has drilled
[2:05:55] wells in Texas brings Texas
[2:05:55] water to
[2:05:59] Alus they have a reverse osmosis
[2:06:00] plant
[2:06:04] Tomsteedreservoir has drilled
[2:06:05] wells to supplement the firm
[2:06:05] yield
[2:06:09] and now we have a sustainable
[2:06:10] water supply where Alttairir
[2:06:12] Force base was number one on the
[2:06:13] list
[2:06:16] for the most vulnerable water
[2:06:17] supply of a military
[2:06:18] installation in the United
[2:06:19] States
[2:06:20] it's now off that list
[2:06:24] because of the local planning
[2:06:28] that was done funded through
[2:06:30] state funding sources that the
[2:06:32] legislature's approved with
[2:06:32] folks like the water boardard
[2:06:33] and and others
[2:06:38] we look at the
[2:06:41] regional water plan the
[2:06:42] settlement agreement that was
[2:06:44] approved by the state the tribes
[2:06:45] and Oklahoma City.
[2:06:48] and and so one of these regional
[2:06:50] plans I do want to talk about is
[2:06:52] Oklahoma cityity we talk a
[2:06:52] little bit about Canton because
[2:06:53] that's in the news now
[2:06:56] one of the reasons in the
[2:06:58] settlementgre agreement
[2:06:59] discussions
[2:07:01] from Oklahoma City was that
[2:07:04] because of the lack of
[2:07:05] recognition of groundwater
[2:07:07] surface water interaction and
[2:07:07] groundwater pumpage
[2:07:12] canton reservoirs yield was
[2:07:13] decreased the firm yield was
[2:07:13] decreased
[2:07:15] when you look at
[2:07:19] Chris Neel's slide that Oklahoma
[2:07:22] City has 390,000 acre feet in
[2:07:25] water rights and uses 150,000
[2:07:26] you might think well Oklahoma
[2:07:27] City's got plenty of water
[2:07:30] talk about the firm yield that
[2:07:32] yield it's only there during a
[2:07:33] drought
[2:07:36] that's why Oklahoma City needed
[2:07:37] to go toardusreservoir.
[2:07:41] Now why is Oklahoma City the
[2:07:43] beneficiary you know the good
[2:07:43] thing about Oklahohoma City
[2:07:46] is that they have multiple
[2:07:47] reservoirs
[2:07:50] so they have canon they have
[2:07:52] heffner they have oververholser
[2:07:53] they have Tom Steed they've got
[2:07:56] aokka they've got McGee Creek
[2:07:57] and now they're coming with
[2:07:57] Sardis
[2:07:59] and you might say well they're
[2:08:00] gobbling up everything but for
[2:08:01] Sarddu
[2:08:04] part of that agreement was
[2:08:06] Oklahoma City you have to have a
[2:08:07] conservation plan in place
[2:08:11] you have to have your reservoirs
[2:08:14] below50% before you can take
[2:08:15] water from Sardus in other words
[2:08:15] they didn't want
[2:08:19] a sailboat regatta at Lake
[2:08:21] Heffner while Sardus Lake is a
[2:08:22] 40 acre frog pond
[2:08:29] those that benefit now provides
[2:08:31] Oklahoma City with future water
[2:08:33] supply for economic development
[2:08:35] Oklahoma City wouldn't even be a
[2:08:36] I don't believe would even be a
[2:08:39] skeleton of what they are today
[2:08:41] had they not made the decision
[2:08:42] to go to Mcee Creek and itoka.
[2:08:46] it was controversial all the
[2:08:47] city council lost their jobs
[2:08:51] none of the other communities
[2:08:51] wanted to go on board
[2:08:52] but now look
[2:08:59] Piedmont, yukon El Reno you know
[2:09:00] all of them Newcastle they all
[2:09:01] have ties to Oklahoma City
[2:09:05] the future growth of this area
[2:09:06] depends upon Oklahoma City.
[2:09:14] We look at four pillars of
[2:09:15] sustainability
[2:09:16] I want to talk a little bit
[2:09:17] about
[2:09:19] the Terry Peach project with the
[2:09:19] conservation commission
[2:09:23] removing cedar trees cedar trees
[2:09:24] use50 gallons of water a day you
[2:09:26] know the stories468 million
[2:09:27] cedar trees
[2:09:30] it reduces the viability of a
[2:09:31] producer to make money on their
[2:09:31] land
[2:09:36] this is an incredibly important
[2:09:38] piece of how we have to tie all
[2:09:39] of this together
[2:09:41] into a comprehensive
[2:09:42] plan
[2:09:45] to manage our water resources
[2:09:49] our Chickasaw hoctawlan
[2:09:53] I want to say that Texas is
[2:09:53] coming at us
[2:09:57] whether we like it or not
[2:09:57] they're coming at us
[2:10:01] they're coming across the ed
[2:10:03] river they're coming up the75
[2:10:04] corridor. they're coming up the
[2:10:07] 35 corridor they're coming up
[2:10:08] now on the north side of Lake
[2:10:09] Texoma
[2:10:12] we look at population
[2:10:14] projections and we would look at
[2:10:16] old comprehensive water plan
[2:10:18] projections of a straight line
[2:10:19] demand projection for Bryan
[2:10:19] County
[2:10:22] was a part of the study that we
[2:10:23] did with the corps of engineers
[2:10:26] they're growing faster than that
[2:10:29] right now we don't we got
[2:10:31] moratoriums on adding hookups
[2:10:35] all over Bryan County
[2:10:36] southernokklahoma Water Corp all
[2:10:37] the way to Ardmore
[2:10:40] landnd values are skyrocketing
[2:10:41] in that area.
[2:10:43] if you own that land it's a
[2:10:43] great thing
[2:10:49] so what do we do what do we do
[2:10:49] about water supply
[2:10:57] I think the groth corridors
[2:11:00] the4fo corridor Newcastle
[2:11:05] ick ck as ha Tuttle Blanchard
[2:11:05] that area's blowing up over
[2:11:06] there
[2:11:10] you look at the thir5 corridor I
[2:11:12] talked to Washington and all of
[2:11:14] those communities along that
[2:11:14] 35ardmore
[2:11:17] all the way along there Paul's
[2:11:17] alley
[2:11:20] Goldsby
[2:11:22] Purcell, Norman
[2:11:27] their future is going to be more
[2:11:27] water
[2:11:28] and where are they're going to
[2:11:29] get it
[2:11:33] intensive plans need to take
[2:11:34] place in those areas
[2:11:40] as we look at
[2:11:44] you know, I don't want to go
[2:11:45] over a bunch of numbers with you
[2:11:48] you know the success it's it's
[2:11:49] no longer a proof of concept
[2:11:51] what we do at theoka institute
[2:11:53] is we're not a consultant for
[2:11:54] communities we go work with
[2:11:57] those we get grant monies we got
[2:11:58] FEMA grant monies to look at
[2:11:59] drought fire and flood
[2:12:03] that's how we support ourselves
[2:12:06] we now have a grant with EPA
[2:12:07] with the University of New
[2:12:08] Mexico where theokake institute
[2:12:09] is going to be the lead
[2:12:10] technical
[2:12:14] assistance for small communities
[2:12:16] in Oklahoma so we're gonna be
[2:12:18] working with Oklahoma it takes
[2:12:20] multiple trips to a community.
[2:12:24] to get them to understand water
[2:12:25] sustainability
[2:12:28] typically what communities say
[2:12:29] is I can't afford it
[2:12:35] I want to talk a little bit
[2:12:36] about the Arbuckle Simpson
[2:12:38] aquifer you guys are aware of
[2:12:40] the controversy comes up to you
[2:12:42] every single year you put a
[2:12:45] moratorium on mining expansions
[2:12:46] until a study's done to look at
[2:12:48] the impacts of mines in the
[2:12:49] Arbuckle Simpson
[2:12:52] you put2 million dollars at the
[2:12:53] water board
[2:12:55] and the Oa institute
[2:12:56] said they would match it
[2:13:02] that was Susan Paddock said she
[2:13:03] would match it. I didn't, but we
[2:13:03] are
[2:13:07] so now what we're doing and the
[2:13:10] reason for the study is because
[2:13:12] the regional study looked at the
[2:13:13] amount of water that can be
[2:13:14] taken out on a regional basis
[2:13:18] per acre2 acre feet per acre it
[2:13:20] went from two acre feet to.2
[2:13:21] acre feet
[2:13:25] so every community every person
[2:13:26] that's wanting to use water and
[2:13:28] drill a well and use it for
[2:13:29] beneficial use besides domestic
[2:13:33] was reduced to0.2 acre feet per
[2:13:35] they had to buy 10 times the
[2:13:36] lane or5 times the lane to get
[2:13:38] the same amount of water city of
[2:13:39] ada etc
[2:13:42] the mining companies were exempt
[2:13:45] and and it's not because mine
[2:13:46] I'm not gonna dog the mining
[2:13:48] companies they were exempt from
[2:13:50] getting water permits since the
[2:13:52] beginning of the water rights
[2:13:53] administration back in the
[2:13:53] eighties
[2:13:54] Water in a producing mine was
[2:13:55] exempt from getting a permit
[2:13:58] and it was because of their
[2:13:59] unique
[2:14:03] per ation that they have they
[2:14:04] don't use it they have to move
[2:14:05] it to mine
[2:14:09] and you know and in the
[2:14:09] Arbuckleimpson
[2:14:12] where the community
[2:14:16] and industry have to protect
[2:14:16] springs and streams the mines
[2:14:17] don't
[2:14:24] So this is a way and this and
[2:14:26] the legislature said in there
[2:14:28] that the water board DEQ and
[2:14:29] department ofines do not
[2:14:34] know the impacts of the mines so
[2:14:36] they appropriated money to be
[2:14:38] matched to look at what that is
[2:14:41] and now we are doing what I
[2:14:41] believe cutting edge
[2:14:43] technology using
[2:14:46] a helicopter to do
[2:14:50] aerial electromagnetic data
[2:14:51] collection determine the faults
[2:14:52] and flow paths
[2:14:58] to turn to determine a process
[2:14:59] by which we can have minds in
[2:15:01] the Arbuckleimpson our goal is
[2:15:01] not to get rid of the mines
[2:15:05] or to get rid of large water
[2:15:07] wells in the Arbuckleimpson our
[2:15:08] goal is to protect springs and
[2:15:09] streams
[2:15:12] Doctor Lauren Haygood is here
[2:15:13] she's gonna lead she's the
[2:15:15] technical lead for that study
[2:15:16] we're going to use doctorctor
[2:15:17] Toddhallahan from OSU
[2:15:20] we believe the best science team
[2:15:22] is available and I want to
[2:15:24] discuss with you what I believe
[2:15:26] the model is for future studies
[2:15:27] in Oklahoma and the region
[2:15:31] and that is to form a technical
[2:15:31] advisory committee
[2:15:36] have scientists that specialize
[2:15:37] in this work
[2:15:39] come together and advise on
[2:15:40] what the science
[2:15:45] data collection should be and
[2:15:46] what those interpretations are
[2:15:50] and then alongside that have a
[2:15:52] robust stakeholder group that
[2:15:54] gets together routinely and
[2:15:56] talks to the scientists and
[2:15:57] understands the policy as we
[2:15:57] move forward
[2:16:00] let's don't do the science and
[2:16:01] then
[2:16:04] try to inform stakeholders then
[2:16:05] let's do that together
[2:16:07] and I believe this is a model
[2:16:09] that you should look at
[2:16:12] as we do basin studies in
[2:16:12] Oklahoma.
[2:16:21] Regional water planning
[2:16:22] so
[2:16:26] Mr chairman in the interests of
[2:16:27] time
[2:16:32] I'm going to move through
[2:16:36] and I want to talk just a little
[2:16:37] bit about economic development
[2:16:38] and and water infrastructure
[2:16:45] and you know in inokklahoma you
[2:16:46] know twentyome billion dollars
[2:16:47] of need in Oklahoma
[2:16:51] we don't have enough grant money
[2:16:53] to fix our infrastructure
[2:16:56] when you look at a community and
[2:16:57] we say you can't afford it
[2:16:58] what are we saying
[2:17:02] the reason they're in the
[2:17:04] situation they're in is because
[2:17:05] they can't afford it
[2:17:07] so to put a dribble of
[2:17:11] 2 $4 billion of need
[2:17:16] and and we put50 or or 100
[2:17:16] million or a billion dollars
[2:17:17] into that
[2:17:19] we're not fixing the problem
[2:17:22] by giving the communities
[2:17:23] money
[2:17:29] What we have to do is establish
[2:17:32] a policy I think of and and look
[2:17:33] at affordability of water
[2:17:36] and I I looked at when we were
[2:17:38] minus22 degrees and we didn't
[2:17:39] have
[2:17:42] electricity in our communities
[2:17:44] and the outrage that came from
[2:17:45] that
[2:17:45] and what happened
[2:17:50] we raised rates and built
[2:17:52] additional infrastructure so
[2:17:52] that we can withstand that
[2:17:57] with our communities the entire
[2:17:58] backbone of our community
[2:18:02] the entire backbone of economic
[2:18:03] development is around water.
[2:18:07] and if we look at an
[2:18:07] affordability rate
[2:18:12] EPA says that nationally it's
[2:18:14] about2.5% of the median
[2:18:15] household income
[2:18:17] for water and wastewater
[2:18:18] if you look at that
[2:18:23] and take the average median
[2:18:24] household income in Oklahoma and
[2:18:25] the average water rate
[2:18:28] there's about600 million dollars
[2:18:29] a year
[2:18:33] in infrastructure money that's
[2:18:33] not being spent on
[2:18:34] infrastructure
[2:18:38] if you were to take that600
[2:18:40] million and leverage that like
[2:18:42] the water board does with state
[2:18:43] money you could be talking
[2:18:44] you know
[2:18:48] $10 billion
[2:18:51] over 10 years to go into
[2:18:51] infrastructure
[2:18:56] our grant money then should go
[2:18:58] to help those communities that
[2:18:59] are at that affordability rate
[2:19:03] it doesn't have to be2.5%
[2:19:05] whatever we decide that is
[2:19:05] that's just an example
[2:19:09] but we're giving grant
[2:19:09] oftentimes the
[2:19:14] plan for a community is to not
[2:19:15] improve it so that they come
[2:19:16] higher on a priority list for a
[2:19:18] grant and then we give a grant
[2:19:19] for a consent order to implement
[2:19:20] that
[2:19:21] I've heard him say it
[2:19:25] So
[2:19:28] maybe we should look at the
[2:19:29] policy and say
[2:19:33] you you you come to your
[2:19:33] affordability rate
[2:19:36] and then we'll provide grants to
[2:19:37] help you above that
[2:19:39] as a taxpayer
[2:19:44] this is part of the problem with
[2:19:45] regionalization that I hear we
[2:19:46] talk about Friday night football
[2:19:48] fights and communities don't
[2:19:49] want to combine and that's part
[2:19:50] of it
[2:19:52] but I've heard a lot of it is
[2:19:55] that one community has let their
[2:19:55] system go bad
[2:19:58] and the other community didn't
[2:20:00] want to combine with them
[2:20:00] because they don't want to
[2:20:01] subsidize that community
[2:20:07] We have to look at these small
[2:20:08] communities that can't afford it
[2:20:10] regionalization is in their
[2:20:11] future
[2:20:16] the other communities regionally
[2:20:18] like southwestokklahoma like
[2:20:20] Fosse Reservoir like northwest
[2:20:22] Oklahoma like the panhandle
[2:20:26] we've got to pull local people
[2:20:28] together stakeholder development
[2:20:30] and let them
[2:20:30] understand
[2:20:34] what their future's gonna look
[2:20:35] like and they have to plan that.
[2:20:37] and it works
[2:20:40] So
[2:20:46] that's my spiel we have our
[2:20:47] okcaon conference
[2:20:52] coming up October 14th we are
[2:20:54] doing this we're having one day
[2:20:55] on community sustainability
[2:20:59] and we're gonna talk about
[2:21:00] affordability rates we're gonna
[2:21:01] we we're expecting about 100
[2:21:05] people to come with the
[2:21:06] department of commerce we're
[2:21:08] gonna specifically talk about
[2:21:09] economic development and water
[2:21:10] and wastewater infrastructure
[2:21:14] on the in the comprehensive
[2:21:16] water plan the water board says
[2:21:17] so I don't have to own this
[2:21:17] number
[2:21:20] a billion dollars of investment
[2:21:21] is24,000 jobs
[2:21:23] that's investment in
[2:21:23] infrastructure
[2:21:27] think if we put $10 billion in
[2:21:30] 10 years240,000 jobs
[2:21:34] Department of Commerce is coming
[2:21:36] and they're going to help we're
[2:21:38] going to help with a plan and
[2:21:39] help with a policy on how we do
[2:21:39] that
[2:21:42] I don't know exactly how it's
[2:21:43] going to turn out
[2:21:46] but I'm excited to go through
[2:21:47] the process thank you very much
[2:21:52] Any questions
[2:21:52] smith
[2:21:56] thank you very much very very
[2:21:58] informative thank you very much
[2:21:59] for that presentation
[2:22:00] right
[2:22:05] we and this would like to now
[2:22:07] call Mr Kimball to the table to
[2:22:07] present
[2:22:10] so we've talked about
[2:22:12] infrastructure we've talked
[2:22:14] about sustainability
[2:22:18] so let's dream a little bit and
[2:22:20] so I have called Mr Kimblell
[2:22:22] here to help us and we talked
[2:22:26] about water transfer and so I'm
[2:22:28] gonna let him talk about
[2:22:30] that. Did you have some handouts
[2:22:31] that you want to give out or
[2:22:31] anything?
[2:22:38] I'm not quite as sophisticated
[2:22:39] as some of these others what
[2:22:42] what I have is a legal pad and
[2:22:44] an $8 calculator from Office
[2:22:46] Depot. Well you're you recognize
[2:22:48] if we go with that thank you
[2:22:50] very much for being here thank
[2:22:52] you so much for inviting me this
[2:22:53] is something that's near and
[2:22:54] dearer to my heart that I've
[2:22:55] been working on for a few years
[2:22:58] I've buttonholed a few of the of
[2:23:02] the legislators I am very
[2:23:04] proud member of the Grand River
[2:23:06] Dam Authority Board I've been on
[2:23:08] that board starting my 14enth
[2:23:10] year I do represent the House of
[2:23:12] Representatives on that board
[2:23:14] our board's made up of three
[2:23:16] appointments from the governor's
[2:23:17] office one from the speaker one
[2:23:18] from the prote
[2:23:22] one from the cities we sell to
[2:23:24] and one that from the co ops
[2:23:25] that we sell to
[2:23:26] we're on and I was just
[2:23:28] appointed last week for another
[2:23:29] five year term so I'm a glutton
[2:23:30] for punishment
[2:23:34] Grad River Dam Authority from
[2:23:36] from the people in the room here
[2:23:39] is owned 100% by the state of
[2:23:42] Oklahoma we were formed in 1935
[2:23:47] to take care of the new
[2:23:50] reservoir that was built at
[2:23:51] Grove Oklahoma and Pensacola Dam
[2:23:54] our dam is
[2:23:56] mile long
[2:24:02] it didn't it impos uh40,000
[2:24:02] acres of water
[2:24:06] it's66 miles long 140 ft deep
[2:24:08] and 938 miles of shoreline
[2:24:12] and they were talking earlier
[2:24:14] about water transfer water
[2:24:15] transfer is a big pro big
[2:24:15] project
[2:24:19] and if you come to from
[2:24:20] western Oklahoma and say we're
[2:24:22] going to put a a pipe in Grand
[2:24:24] Lake and start pumping water
[2:24:24] west
[2:24:28] or you're gonna hear a lot of a
[2:24:28] lot of people probably start
[2:24:29] hollering
[2:24:32] so it's very difficult to go in
[2:24:33] and say we're going to take
[2:24:34] water from here and take it to
[2:24:35] there
[2:24:37] even if you don't need it where
[2:24:37] it's at
[2:24:38] but
[2:24:42] it's not difficult to take the
[2:24:44] water away from the people in
[2:24:45] New Orleans Louisiana
[2:24:48] Most people don't really
[2:24:49] understand
[2:24:53] the water in Grand
[2:24:53] Lakenyoshoriver
[2:24:57] and when Grand Lake was formed
[2:24:58] the department of Interior gave
[2:25:02] the neosho river forms from the
[2:25:03] sppring river and the
[2:25:06] Neoshoriver coming out of Kansas
[2:25:07] at Twinridges State Park
[2:25:12] GRDA and the state of Oklahoma
[2:25:12] own the water
[2:25:16] from Twinridges State Park
[2:25:20] that goes through Grand Lake
[2:25:22] goes through Lake Hudson goes
[2:25:24] through Lake Fort Gibson we
[2:25:26] don't own Fort Gibson but we do
[2:25:26] own the water in it
[2:25:29] and that water belongs to the
[2:25:29] state of Oklahoma
[2:25:32] until it gets to the Arkansas
[2:25:33] river
[2:25:36] we're not controlled by the
[2:25:38] corps of engineers as most of
[2:25:40] the dams and rivers in the state
[2:25:41] are
[2:25:44] if a city or somebody wants
[2:25:46] water out of our reservoir they
[2:25:48] don't go to the water resources
[2:25:50] board they go to our seven
[2:25:51] member board
[2:25:54] our seven member board sets the
[2:25:56] water rates we dr char we charge
[2:25:58] about $13.5 per 1000 gallons for
[2:25:59] water
[2:26:00] it's pretty
[2:26:04] misunderstood around the lake
[2:26:08] but my concept is not to take
[2:26:10] water out of Grand Lake or Lake
[2:26:11] Hudson or Lake Fort Gibson.
[2:26:15] because the water is owned by
[2:26:16] the state of Oklahoma and GRDA
[2:26:20] it is not a primary source for
[2:26:22] water to be used in the
[2:26:24] navigation channel that's
[2:26:24] controlled by the corps of
[2:26:25] engineers
[2:26:28] when we generate electricity at
[2:26:29] Pensacola Dam at Grand Lake
[2:26:32] our water goes intolake Hudson
[2:26:36] into Lake Fort Gibson into the
[2:26:37] Arkansas river
[2:26:38] to LittleRock
[2:26:43] to the Mississippi river and to
[2:26:46] the Gulf of Mexico it's not used
[2:26:48] for navigation it's not used for
[2:26:51] irrigation it's not used as
[2:26:53] potable water oncece it goes
[2:26:54] through generation it's going to
[2:26:55] New orleans
[2:26:58] and used for absolutely nothing
[2:27:02] when we're generating
[2:27:03] electricity at Pensacola Dam
[2:27:07] we have6 generators and when
[2:27:08] we're generating full generation
[2:27:12] we're releasing 13,500 cubic
[2:27:13] feet of water per second.
[2:27:18] cubic foot of water7.48 gallons
[2:27:24] if we captured 1000 cubic foot a
[2:27:25] second
[2:27:28] of the 1ir5 still sending tw25
[2:27:29] south
[2:27:36] we would be capturing7,480
[2:27:36] gallons of water every second
[2:27:41] 448000 gallons of water every
[2:27:41] minute
[2:27:48] 646272000 gallons of water
[2:27:49] every24 hours
[2:27:54] that's2.5 times the amount of
[2:27:55] water that the city of Tulsa
[2:27:56] treats everyday
[2:27:59] that's a lot of water
[2:28:02] and that belongs to us at the
[2:28:03] state of Oklahoma
[2:28:08] the moving it west
[2:28:09] is
[2:28:10] difficult
[2:28:12] but not impossible
[2:28:16] right now there's a pipeline or
[2:28:18] may have just recently been
[2:28:20] completed coming from aokka to
[2:28:21] Oklahoma City 98.6 miles
[2:28:25] it's a se2 inch line and that
[2:28:27] line carries just a little over
[2:28:29] 100 million gallons of water a
[2:28:29] day
[2:28:32] that water line cost $800
[2:28:33] million
[2:28:38] we would need6 of those lines to
[2:28:40] move the water west
[2:28:44] that we could produce every day
[2:28:47] by capturing 1000 cubic foot a
[2:28:48] second
[2:28:52] and just let your mind wander a
[2:28:53] minute and say well know what
[2:28:54] happens if we'd go down and do
[2:28:55] the same thing below Lake
[2:28:55] Hudson.
[2:28:58] what if we did the same thing
[2:29:00] below the dam at Fort Gibson.
[2:29:01] it's our water
[2:29:03] that would be capturing 3000
[2:29:08] of the 13,500 cubic foot a
[2:29:10] 2nd and 2 billion gallons of
[2:29:11] water
[2:29:13] every24 hours.
[2:29:18] that it's not being used for
[2:29:20] anything in the state of
[2:29:20] Oklahoma today
[2:29:24] we would be sending
[2:29:26] 200 acre feet
[2:29:31] of water west every day from one
[2:29:32] of our facilities
[2:29:40] Now there's peoples people are a
[2:29:42] little bit questionable about
[2:29:44] some of our our metrics there
[2:29:45] but I promise you the numbers
[2:29:46] are correct. I've worked with
[2:29:47] Burnsmcdonald Engineering
[2:29:48] Company
[2:29:50] and
[2:29:50] said well
[2:29:54] what do you do with the water
[2:29:55] when it gets there you may not
[2:29:56] need it all the time but it's
[2:29:57] real simple
[2:30:00] you use it for irrigation you
[2:30:01] use it for what cities need it
[2:30:04] and what you don't need you
[2:30:04] refill or aquifers
[2:30:06] what a novel idea
[2:30:12] hass anybody done that? yes it's
[2:30:13] being done in Wichita Kansas
[2:30:13] today
[2:30:16] I was in Wichita four years ago
[2:30:19] they take water they just treat
[2:30:21] 30 million gallons a day out of
[2:30:22] the littlet Arkansas river. I
[2:30:24] don't know if anybody's ever
[2:30:25] been to the littlettle Arkansas
[2:30:25] River up by Wichita
[2:30:28] but that water's about like
[2:30:29] thirtyweight motor oil.
[2:30:34] and it can only flow enough that
[2:30:35] they can only operate their
[2:30:36] facility 9 months out of the
[2:30:37] year
[2:30:40] they take that water and put it
[2:30:42] in set in a settling basin then
[2:30:44] they run it through a filters
[2:30:46] very simple filtration and then
[2:30:48] they run it through ultraviolet
[2:30:50] light to kill the bacteria.alf
[2:30:51] of it goes to
[2:30:54] Wichita to treat for city water
[2:30:57] the other half goes to refill
[2:30:58] aquifers
[2:31:02] one of the aquifers up there I
[2:31:03] just
[2:31:04] got looked at a report
[2:31:05] just the other day
[2:31:08] was500 million
[2:31:09] acre feet
[2:31:14] reduced from 1940 until now
[2:31:20] in the last 9 years,2/3 of that
[2:31:21] has been refilled
[2:31:21] 2 / 3
[2:31:26] and every aquifer in our state
[2:31:27] today is being
[2:31:30] every one of them
[2:31:32] cities they're using wells
[2:31:34] going dry
[2:31:38] we have the water it's in the
[2:31:39] wrong place
[2:31:42] it can be moved
[2:31:44] you can move
[2:31:49] a lot of water and it's going to
[2:31:50] cost about
[2:31:51] 4 to5 billion dollars
[2:31:54] that sounds like a lot of money
[2:31:56] but I promise you
[2:31:59] in just a few years
[2:32:02] that's going to be very very
[2:32:03] inexpensive
[2:32:06] probably not in my lifetime.
[2:32:07] I'm80 years old
[2:32:08] we'll see
[2:32:12] our water more valuable than our
[2:32:13] oil.
[2:32:14] it's coming.
[2:32:20] and we have the water our water
[2:32:21] quality is very very good
[2:32:25] we have our own water quality
[2:32:27] PhD on staff we have a water
[2:32:27] quality lab
[2:32:32] that is second only to DEQs and
[2:32:33] three years ago for the first
[2:32:36] time in26 years the nitrogen
[2:32:37] level in Grand Lake started
[2:32:37] decreasing
[2:32:40] and it's decreasing every year
[2:32:41] at the water clarity is getting
[2:32:42] better
[2:32:45] Arkansas river produces a lot of
[2:32:46] water but it's a lot harder to
[2:32:47] treat because of the salinity
[2:32:51] our water is very easy to treat.
[2:32:51] it's very clean water
[2:32:56] the the water is
[2:33:00] more than anything is ours
[2:33:00] without
[2:33:03] the core of engineer inference
[2:33:04] that we have at the rest of our
[2:33:05] reservoirs
[2:33:06] the
[2:33:10] the value
[2:33:12] of that water
[2:33:16] will be noticed real quickly by
[2:33:18] somebody we'll see private
[2:33:19] enterprise come in and try to
[2:33:19] get our water
[2:33:22] I beg you to keep that water
[2:33:25] for our children and
[2:33:26] grandchildren's future in
[2:33:27] economic development in this
[2:33:28] state
[2:33:32] our biggest natural resource
[2:33:33] was oil
[2:33:38] we have some income from oil but
[2:33:40] our jobs went back south they
[2:33:41] went to Texas
[2:33:45] with our water moving around the
[2:33:46] state where it's needed
[2:33:50] we can produce jobs for our
[2:33:52] children and grandchildren that
[2:33:53] are just not even really thought
[2:33:53] of today
[2:33:56] when you think of of things you
[2:33:58] have water we've ur heard
[2:33:59] earlier today about the data
[2:33:59] centers
[2:34:03] we have the second largest data
[2:34:04] center in the world Prior
[2:34:05] Oklahoma
[2:34:06] and we supply the water it's not
[2:34:07] a problem
[2:34:12] google is a very good customer
[2:34:13] of ours but they do use a lot of
[2:34:13] water
[2:34:16] but when you look at the
[2:34:17] industry
[2:34:20] silicone chips use a lot of
[2:34:22] water to make too and they
[2:34:22] produce really good jobs
[2:34:26] but you can't go to Dallas and
[2:34:26] Fort Worth and make silicon
[2:34:28] chips today because they don't
[2:34:29] have any water for you
[2:34:31] they've got incentive money
[2:34:32] they can write you a big check
[2:34:36] but if you tell them you need200
[2:34:37] million gallons of water a day
[2:34:38] they'll sell byebye
[2:34:38] they don't have it
[2:34:46] My presentation is not fancy
[2:34:46] it's not a lot of charts
[2:34:50] it's just bare facts we have the
[2:34:51] water
[2:34:53] it's in the wrong place
[2:34:57] in today's dollars it's very
[2:34:57] costly to move it
[2:34:58] how
[2:35:02] it's going to be very
[2:35:04] inexpensive in the years to come
[2:35:05] particularly
[2:35:08] when you look at the jobs that
[2:35:09] it can produce
[2:35:12] just imagine what could be done
[2:35:13] at Burn's flat
[2:35:14] just imagine
[2:35:18] you know the one thing the the
[2:35:19] marijuana people taught us
[2:35:22] is how much we can do with drip
[2:35:23] irrigation
[2:35:24] it's about the only good thing
[2:35:25] they did but
[2:35:30] get political there a minute
[2:35:33] but with drip irrigation
[2:35:39] we can we can raise crops that
[2:35:41] you don't even think about today
[2:35:42] they're closing lettuce fields
[2:35:43] in California because they have
[2:35:44] no water
[2:35:46] you see what they're doing with
[2:35:47] the Colorado river today
[2:35:49] Phoenix just canceled
[2:35:54] a60 home development because
[2:35:55] they could not get water permit
[2:36:00] they have the jobs they have the
[2:36:02] people needing the housing but
[2:36:03] they can't build the housing
[2:36:03] because they don't have the
[2:36:04] water
[2:36:06] we have the water now it's time
[2:36:07] to get the jobs
[2:36:08] we can build the houses
[2:36:12] we can do everything we need
[2:36:14] with the water that we own in
[2:36:17] the state of Oklahoma that's
[2:36:19] literally been overlooked for a
[2:36:19] few years
[2:36:23] I'll be happy to answer any
[2:36:23] questions
[2:36:28] we have we just have a great
[2:36:29] resource that
[2:36:32] that I hope you all will take a
[2:36:33] closer look at
[2:36:36] keep it in the hands of the
[2:36:38] state of Oklahoma let the state
[2:36:41] of Oklahoma prospers and not
[2:36:42] private enterprise off of our
[2:36:43] natural resource
[2:36:46] and give our children and
[2:36:46] grandchildren a chance
[2:36:47] to have
[2:36:52] a great place to come back to
[2:36:52] after school and live
[2:36:56] and let those those boys and
[2:36:57] girls wearing those blue FFfa
[2:36:58] jackets let them have a future
[2:37:01] where they grew up in
[2:37:01] westernokklahoma
[2:37:08] we can feed if you go to go to
[2:37:11] a bottle of water that we we
[2:37:13] sell for a a bucket quick trip
[2:37:17] you buy a case it's cents a
[2:37:17] bottle at Walmart
[2:37:21] that same bottle at Walmart in
[2:37:22] California is about42 cents
[2:37:30] So I'll be more than happy to
[2:37:31] answer any questions
[2:37:34] Any questions
[2:37:36] So
[2:37:38] I have a question
[2:37:42] so how much do you say it would
[2:37:44] cost to put a what size
[2:37:46] pipeline basically a76 inch
[2:37:49] the atoka pipeline72 inches
[2:37:50] about as large as you'd want to
[2:37:52] build and that's what the atoka
[2:37:56] pipeline is. it runs 98.6 miles
[2:37:58] from aokk at Oklahoma City to to
[2:38:00] the lake here to get to
[2:38:06] Fairview or Comanche you're
[2:38:08] gonna it's going to be about 190
[2:38:09] miles from Pensacola so
[2:38:13] you're looking at probably if
[2:38:15] it was 800 million for 100 miles
[2:38:16] today it'll probably be a
[2:38:17] billion for hund0 miles so
[2:38:18] you're looking at2 billion
[2:38:19] dollars probably
[2:38:20] to build that pipeline
[2:38:24] and they follow
[2:38:28] so they could and that would be
[2:38:30] able to you'd have to do some
[2:38:32] filtration to inject that down
[2:38:34] into the aquifers is that
[2:38:34] correct or can it go straight
[2:38:35] into there?
[2:38:38] you can put it into the aquifers
[2:38:41] with either sediment aquifer
[2:38:42] there's a lot of different
[2:38:43] aquifers and there's a lot of
[2:38:44] smarter people in the room on
[2:38:46] that there's there's different
[2:38:47] types of aquifers some are
[2:38:49] easier to recharge than others
[2:38:52] some can be done with just
[2:38:54] settlement basing some has done
[2:38:55] with the low powered injection
[2:38:55] wells
[2:39:00] but there again the technology
[2:39:01] is there they're already doing
[2:39:01] it
[2:39:04] and any time you have excess
[2:39:05] water in that pipeline
[2:39:09] 24 hours a day just keep filling
[2:39:10] the aquifers
[2:39:13] one of the big issues on any
[2:39:14] pipeline is right away
[2:39:19] GRDA happens to have high
[2:39:21] lines in75 or77 counties some of
[2:39:24] our some of our right away you
[2:39:25] can use for pipelines some you
[2:39:25] can't
[2:39:29] but if I go out to western
[2:39:30] western Oklahoma and tell a
[2:39:31] farmer I'm gonna run a big high
[2:39:36] 300 ft tall transmission line
[2:39:38] across his farm and it's going
[2:39:40] to pop and crackle and snap and
[2:39:42] scare your cows he's gonna
[2:39:43] probably lawyer up and be ugly
[2:39:43] with us
[2:39:46] If I go tell him I'm gonna run a
[2:39:49] a pipeline across the the corner
[2:39:52] of his property and his cows can
[2:39:53] still graze on it you can bale
[2:39:54] the hay on top of it. you're
[2:39:56] going to see a vent pipe every
[2:39:58] mile or two
[2:40:00] and we're gonna put up a meter
[2:40:02] on that and all you got to do is
[2:40:03] call this number and we'll
[2:40:04] remotely turn that meter on you
[2:40:06] you can water your
[2:40:10] your cows you can fill your farm
[2:40:11] ponds or you can irrigate
[2:40:12] he's gonna probably hug me
[2:40:20] I have a question what is the
[2:40:23] elevation at the Grandriverd Dam
[2:40:23] with this water is
[2:40:27] what's the elevation? OK at the
[2:40:29] bottom of the dam the elevation
[2:40:31] is right at600 feet above sea
[2:40:34] level. The increase in elevation
[2:40:37] from pensacola Dam to westford
[2:40:38] Oklahoma is almost the same
[2:40:42] difference in elevation from a
[2:40:44] toka to Oklahoma City it's very
[2:40:46] close it's about 350 ft
[2:40:46] depending on
[2:40:47] where you go with it
[2:40:51] that's where I was going with
[2:40:52] that what would the elevation be
[2:40:54] to like uhpresentative Duton's
[2:40:57] area are you 1500 ft or do you
[2:40:58] know what your elevation is?
[2:41:02] that that's my question is
[2:41:05] pumping water uphill is very
[2:41:07] difficult have you looked into
[2:41:08] the engineering on that what it
[2:41:10] would take to pump 1000 ft
[2:41:11] uphill
[2:41:16] the pumping water is very
[2:41:18] difficult. there's a lot of
[2:41:19] better technology today they've
[2:41:20] done some excellent technology
[2:41:21] on the atoka pipeline
[2:41:26] the one thing about we're
[2:41:27] in the electric business
[2:41:31] and so we we have the electric
[2:41:34] lines in75 or se77 counties so
[2:41:36] it's the electricity that we
[2:41:36] generate could be used for part
[2:41:37] of it
[2:41:40] the way it works with FERCederal
[2:41:42] Energyregulatory Commission if
[2:41:44] there's any any high line any
[2:41:48] any real water district lines
[2:41:51] anything close to it they have
[2:41:52] to let us run our electricity
[2:41:54] over that line and FERC sets the
[2:41:56] tariff on that as to how much we
[2:41:58] pay for doing it lus we could do
[2:42:00] we could utilize the technology
[2:42:04] on some solar panels to to
[2:42:04] operate some of the pumps
[2:42:08] there's a a mixture of
[2:42:09] answers there
[2:42:12] depends on the geography more
[2:42:12] than anything
[2:42:19] you but the answer is we can get
[2:42:19] the water west
[2:42:22] and the other answer is we do
[2:42:23] have the water
[2:42:27] thank you Mr Kimblell any other
[2:42:27] questions?
[2:42:30] OK
[2:42:32] so summarizing
[2:42:34] water is essential
[2:42:36] we have a need
[2:42:40] waterter's crucial to our future
[2:42:44] and a last part I've asked Mr
[2:42:46] Kimball to give us another
[2:42:48] possibility to dream. what can
[2:42:52] we do to help solve a problem
[2:42:55] here and so I appreciate all the
[2:42:57] presenters. thank you very much
[2:42:59] for the information. I think it
[2:43:00] was very informative. I thank
[2:43:02] you for all the members
[2:43:05] attending and with that I'll
[2:43:06] turn back over to the chairman.
[2:43:07] Miss chairirman thank you very
[2:43:08] much for allowing us to have
[2:43:09] this study
[2:43:13] that concludes interim study for
[2:43:14] today we're all dismissed thank