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Well, I guess we'll

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get started here.

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Uh, this is the

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civil judiciary

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interim

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study.

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Dealing with

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supported

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decision making in

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Oklahoma.

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First off, I'd like to thank

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everybody for being here

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today.

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If any of the

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speakers before you

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speak, please introduce

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yourselves.

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And tell

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us a little bit about you and go

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from there. At this

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time, I'm gonna turn the

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meeting over to

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Representative

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Hefner,

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who put this

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study together

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and we're

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all here to hopefully

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learn something

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and that will help

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the state of Oklahoma.

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So Representative

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Hefner, it's your

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show.

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>> Thank you thank you so

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much, uh, Vice Chairman Culver.

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I, I wanna thank you and Chairman

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Je uh

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for uh having

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this uh presentation.

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It's something that we talked about

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I think last year the year

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before and, uh

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there are a lot of questions about it so I'm

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really happy that we can dig into it a

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little bit more. Um, I'd

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also like to thank, uh, my colleagues

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for being here as well, uh the

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presenters, um,

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house staff and of course my

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legislative assistant

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Chelsea,

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um.

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This, uh, presentation on

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support decision making is

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not spoke about as

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widely as guardianship,

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uh, for families raising a child with a

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disability, guardianship

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is often one of the first

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options we are told to

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consider. Um,

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I think I was, I

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was,

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someone told me about it with my

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son William when he was like 3 or

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4. And it

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stays in your head and

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it um it's something that we

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always question ourselves about if

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it's if it's time or if

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it's not or if it's something

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right until I started

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hearing about supported decision

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making,

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um.

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It's usually used to as

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a form of protection that

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people talk about guardianship and

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I understand that

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but sometimes those decisions

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are made way earlier

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than may be needed,

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um.

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As my son got older, um,

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he had his own ideas,

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and you'll get to hear later

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maybe some of what those

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ideas. I asked

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forgiveness before I do not

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know what he's going to say,

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and he does like to tease me, so

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we'll see, we'll

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see.

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Um, supported

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decision making may not be right for

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everyone and guardianship

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may not be right for everyone

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either.

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So today we'll hear

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from, um, another student and

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my son William about it. They have something

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called Circle of Care.

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He's at the Opportunity Orange

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Scholars program at Oklahoma

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State University

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and, uh, they do something

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similar to this, uh,

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supported decision making they call it circle

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of care. so they're gonna talk

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about that,

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um.

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And you know my mom, my job

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is his mom, you know, whatever

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he says is to help

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find that legal frame what the,

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what are those supports for

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him in protecting

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both his safety and his

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rights. Um, you're going to

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hear the term least

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restrictive in in

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very basic terms that means giving

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a person. The support

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they need without taking away

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rights, they're

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still able to exercise.

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So, like again, I'm not saying

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guardianship is never

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necessary for some people and in some

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circumstances

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it is

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important. The question

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is whether full guardianship

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should always be the starting point,

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which was told to me when

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he was my son was young,

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um, and then going with the less

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restrictive option

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which may allow a person to remain

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safe while keeping more control

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over his or her own

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life.

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Um

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So anyway, today I hope that we can learn from

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our presenters and hear how

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supported decision making works in real

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life. Um, I

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encourage those of you to ask

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questions that are here. thank you.

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um and uh

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uh thanks again, uh,

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chairman and vice chair

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and uh let's start with our

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first presenter.

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Um, please

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introduce yourself, uh,

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Brian, and, uh,

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give us a little information about where

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you work and then, uh,

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please Ready for

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your presentation. >> Absolutely, thank

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you. Good afternoon, everyone, and I

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appreciate you being here and I appreciate

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you having me here.

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Um, spoken a

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couple of times with Representative

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Hefner during the disability caucus

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meetings over the summer and the last

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legislative session.

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Um, so I was very

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happy to be asked back again.

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My name is Brian Wilkerson.

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Uh, I am an attorney and

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the legal director at Disability

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Rights Oklahoma, which is

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the designated protection and

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advocacy firm for the state of

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Oklahoma. Um,

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we are federally funded

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to, um, protect,

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advocate for, and when

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necessary, legally advocate

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for, um,

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individuals, uh, throughout the

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state, all 77 counties

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free of charge, uh, who have

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a disability and have a qualifying,

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um, issue that falls

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within our priorities,

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um, and objectives that are set by

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our board each year.

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Uh, I've been with the

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organization for, uh, a

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little over 8 years now,

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and, uh, I'm very happy

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to be here. A little bit

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personally that we will probably get

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into from a way of maybe

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answering questions or examples

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later. Uh,

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I have, uh,

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almost 28 year old son now, he'll be

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28 next month,

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uh, who my family, my

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wife and I have a full guardianship

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over. And I have a

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daughter who will be turning

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27 this year,

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uh, sorry, turning 26

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this year, uh,

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who, uh,

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something, uh, like a

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supported decision-making arrangement,

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um, would have really benefited her

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when she was, uh, younger,

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uh, up until extremely recently

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in her life, which we can

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discuss later.

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My job here today is simply

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just to educate. Um, I've

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been asked to kind of talk about

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the framework of what

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laws we do have in place,

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um, to assist people with

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disabilities or challenges

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in their decision making,

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um, the framework of those

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laws, uh, how

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supported decision making may fit

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into that and,

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uh, what within Oklahoma

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statute right now either

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defines or

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provides scope for

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supported decision making.

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So

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I don't know which way I'm

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supposed to be pointing this or if it's

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on.

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All right. Is that if I

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tell you next slide, can you advance

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it?

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And quite honestly, I

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don't like to be tied to the slides, but

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it is something that you guys can

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look at.

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Yeah, perfect.

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So within the state of Oklahoma

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statutory framework right

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now, the concept of

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supported decision making already

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exists and has for some

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time. Uh, there are

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two primary references

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to supported decision making in the

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statutes. One is within

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Title 30, which are

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guardianship

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statutes.

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And it's referenced in the

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definitional section as

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a uh

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least restrictive

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alternative to a

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guardianship. something that the

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court can consider

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short of either entering a

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limited guardianship or a full

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guardianship, uh, when that is

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being requested to be placed over

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an individual.

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Um, the other reference

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point, um, that

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exists in the Oklahoma statutes right

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now is in Title

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63 under the health

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statutes. Uh, and

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it specifically deals with

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Everett's law. If those of you

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are familiar with, uh,

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anyone's familiar with Everett's law,

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it basically is

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a, a non-discriminatory

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section of the organ donor

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or organ transplant

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law, um, that,

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um, places

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restrictions on

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any type of discrimination

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based upon an individual's

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disability in either

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receiving an organ

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transplant or potentially choosing to

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donate an organ.

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And again, it's referenced

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00:07:30,410 --> 00:07:31,840
that an individual in the

298
00:07:31,840 --> 00:07:33,009
definitional section of that

299
00:07:33,009 --> 00:07:34,490
statute, it's referenced

300
00:07:34,490 --> 00:07:35,870
that an individual can use

301
00:07:35,870 --> 00:07:37,530
the support of a supported

302
00:07:37,530 --> 00:07:39,289
decision maker or a supported

303
00:07:39,289 --> 00:07:40,729
decision making agreement

304
00:07:40,729 --> 00:07:41,930
and specifically in

305
00:07:41,930 --> 00:07:43,130
the

306
00:07:43,130 --> 00:07:44,169
the

307
00:07:44,169 --> 00:07:45,849
implementation section

308
00:07:45,849 --> 00:07:47,310
that follows that. It

309
00:07:47,310 --> 00:07:48,699
talks about that an individual with a

310
00:07:48,699 --> 00:07:50,549
disability cannot be discriminated

311
00:07:50,549 --> 00:07:52,190
against when considering

312
00:07:52,190 --> 00:07:53,400
organ transplant,

313
00:07:53,400 --> 00:07:54,630
uh, or organ

314
00:07:54,630 --> 00:07:56,389
donation, uh,

315
00:07:56,389 --> 00:07:57,949
because they use, because they

316
00:07:57,949 --> 00:07:59,389
rely on a supporter

317
00:07:59,389 --> 00:08:00,990
or someone in a supported

318
00:08:00,990 --> 00:08:02,470
decision-making arrangement or

319
00:08:02,470 --> 00:08:03,109
guardianship or

320
00:08:03,109 --> 00:08:05,549
otherwise.

321
00:08:05,549 --> 00:08:06,990
The issue as we'll

322
00:08:06,990 --> 00:08:09,049
see, um,

323
00:08:09,049 --> 00:08:10,690
From a statutory framework

324
00:08:10,690 --> 00:08:12,440
is that although supported

325
00:08:12,440 --> 00:08:13,919
decision making is referenced in

326
00:08:13,919 --> 00:08:15,810
the statutes.

327
00:08:15,810 --> 00:08:17,449
There is no other framework

328
00:08:17,449 --> 00:08:19,009
or guidance with regard to

329
00:08:19,009 --> 00:08:20,329
what a supported decision making

330
00:08:20,329 --> 00:08:21,849
arrangement is, what it

331
00:08:21,849 --> 00:08:23,370
should look like, and, and,

332
00:08:23,370 --> 00:08:24,849
um, very importantly,

333
00:08:24,849 --> 00:08:26,349
as we'll discuss, I think,

334
00:08:26,349 --> 00:08:27,650
uh, in a few minutes,

335
00:08:27,650 --> 00:08:29,440
um, how,

336
00:08:29,440 --> 00:08:31,460
uh, third parties

337
00:08:31,460 --> 00:08:32,930
can feel comfortable in relying on them

338
00:08:32,930 --> 00:08:33,969
or even recognizing

339
00:08:33,969 --> 00:08:36,088
them.

340
00:08:36,088 --> 00:08:37,568
So when you talk about,

341
00:08:37,568 --> 00:08:38,969
thank you, when you talk about if we

342
00:08:38,969 --> 00:08:40,409
could go, yeah, if we could

343
00:08:40,409 --> 00:08:42,128
talk about least restrictive alternatives

344
00:08:42,128 --> 00:08:43,688
in the guardianship law

345
00:08:43,688 --> 00:08:45,409
again, supported

346
00:08:45,409 --> 00:08:46,719
decision making is referenced in the

347
00:08:46,719 --> 00:08:48,619
definitional section,

348
00:08:48,619 --> 00:08:50,208
but, uh and it,

349
00:08:50,208 --> 00:08:51,969
it just discusses that

350
00:08:51,969 --> 00:08:53,448
uh it's in a, you can have

351
00:08:53,448 --> 00:08:55,088
supported decision making,

352
00:08:55,088 --> 00:08:56,808
you can have an appropriate

353
00:08:56,808 --> 00:08:58,669
technological assistance.

354
00:08:58,669 --> 00:09:00,260
Um, representative payee

355
00:09:00,260 --> 00:09:01,789
in the context of the, uh,

356
00:09:01,789 --> 00:09:03,029
federal Social Security

357
00:09:03,029 --> 00:09:04,580
program or an agent that

358
00:09:04,580 --> 00:09:06,149
could be appointed, um, by

359
00:09:06,149 --> 00:09:07,339
an individual through a power of

360
00:09:07,339 --> 00:09:08,750
attorney to

361
00:09:08,750 --> 00:09:10,310
help them with their

362
00:09:10,310 --> 00:09:11,830
finances or their healthcare. Those

363
00:09:11,830 --> 00:09:13,279
are all, uh,

364
00:09:13,279 --> 00:09:15,120
alternatives to,

365
00:09:15,120 --> 00:09:16,669
um, entering into a

366
00:09:16,669 --> 00:09:18,070
guardianship, limited or

367
00:09:18,070 --> 00:09:19,440
otherwise.

368
00:09:19,440 --> 00:09:20,839
The problem, uh,

369
00:09:20,839 --> 00:09:22,359
potentially with the way the Oklahoma

370
00:09:22,359 --> 00:09:23,669
statutory framework is right

371
00:09:23,669 --> 00:09:25,039
now is there's no

372
00:09:25,039 --> 00:09:26,599
guidance for a court to

373
00:09:26,599 --> 00:09:28,159
know what to do if they were going to

374
00:09:28,159 --> 00:09:29,359
choose,

375
00:09:29,359 --> 00:09:30,890
um, as a least

376
00:09:30,890 --> 00:09:32,760
restrictive, uh, alternative

377
00:09:32,760 --> 00:09:34,240
supported decision making.

378
00:09:34,240 --> 00:09:35,560
For instance, if, uh, if

379
00:09:35,560 --> 00:09:37,149
someone came in to,

380
00:09:37,149 --> 00:09:38,520
um, seek a guardianship

381
00:09:38,520 --> 00:09:39,959
over one of their adult

382
00:09:39,959 --> 00:09:41,510
child, uh, someone who was on the cusp

383
00:09:41,510 --> 00:09:42,959
of turning 18, they want to

384
00:09:42,959 --> 00:09:44,520
get that guardianship in place to

385
00:09:44,520 --> 00:09:45,640
protect them

386
00:09:45,640 --> 00:09:47,140
and Um,

387
00:09:47,140 --> 00:09:48,620
the potential award

388
00:09:48,620 --> 00:09:50,099
either through their attorney or

389
00:09:50,099 --> 00:09:51,940
themselves, um,

390
00:09:51,940 --> 00:09:53,500
questioned the fact of whether they needed

391
00:09:53,500 --> 00:09:55,219
a full guardianship.

392
00:09:55,219 --> 00:09:56,700
Uh, if they were to propose

393
00:09:56,700 --> 00:09:58,459
the idea of,

394
00:09:58,459 --> 00:10:00,060
um, maybe a power of attorney,

395
00:10:00,060 --> 00:10:01,830
hey, I might need some help with my

396
00:10:01,830 --> 00:10:03,339
my, um, financial

397
00:10:03,339 --> 00:10:04,740
or medical

398
00:10:04,740 --> 00:10:06,260
decisions, but in every other

399
00:10:06,260 --> 00:10:07,700
respect of my life I can make my own

400
00:10:07,700 --> 00:10:09,580
decisions. I feel that I can do that.

401
00:10:09,580 --> 00:10:10,969
The court has a statutory

402
00:10:10,969 --> 00:10:12,690
framework to look at that

403
00:10:12,690 --> 00:10:13,580
in our,

404
00:10:13,580 --> 00:10:15,320
um.

405
00:10:15,320 --> 00:10:17,159
In our statutes regarding

406
00:10:17,159 --> 00:10:18,659
power of attorney, not only

407
00:10:18,659 --> 00:10:20,320
is it defined what a power of attorney

408
00:10:20,320 --> 00:10:21,870
is, who can rely

409
00:10:21,870 --> 00:10:23,399
on that power of attorney,

410
00:10:23,399 --> 00:10:24,950
how they are, um,

411
00:10:24,950 --> 00:10:26,320
entered into and how they can

412
00:10:26,320 --> 00:10:27,560
be, um,

413
00:10:27,560 --> 00:10:29,440
extinguished or closed out,

414
00:10:29,440 --> 00:10:30,659
um,

415
00:10:30,659 --> 00:10:32,229
and. Even

416
00:10:32,229 --> 00:10:33,510
a a guidance

417
00:10:33,510 --> 00:10:35,000
framework or a model,

418
00:10:35,000 --> 00:10:36,529
uh, power of attorney form

419
00:10:36,529 --> 00:10:38,450
is included within the statutes

420
00:10:38,450 --> 00:10:39,789
for people to use as a basis

421
00:10:39,789 --> 00:10:41,289
of of what

422
00:10:41,289 --> 00:10:42,680
can be used to set up a power of

423
00:10:42,680 --> 00:10:43,930
attorney and as

424
00:10:43,930 --> 00:10:45,409
importantly over the years that we've

425
00:10:45,409 --> 00:10:46,930
had many years that we've had power

426
00:10:46,930 --> 00:10:48,049
of attorney as a an

427
00:10:48,049 --> 00:10:49,409
alternative to

428
00:10:49,409 --> 00:10:51,849
guardianship.

429
00:10:51,849 --> 00:10:53,690
Doctors' offices, banks,

430
00:10:53,690 --> 00:10:55,049
um, provide

431
00:10:55,049 --> 00:10:56,450
housing providers are

432
00:10:56,450 --> 00:10:57,969
used to seeing a power of attorney

433
00:10:57,969 --> 00:10:59,359
form. When you hand someone a power of

434
00:10:59,359 --> 00:11:00,740
attorney form, generally

435
00:11:00,740 --> 00:11:02,289
speaking, if they look and it appears to

436
00:11:02,289 --> 00:11:03,930
be in, in, in

437
00:11:03,930 --> 00:11:05,409
form or substance close to

438
00:11:05,409 --> 00:11:06,779
what they're used to seeing,

439
00:11:06,779 --> 00:11:08,320
uh, pursuant to the statutory

440
00:11:08,320 --> 00:11:09,969
framework, it's signed

441
00:11:09,969 --> 00:11:11,330
appropriately, the boxes are

442
00:11:11,330 --> 00:11:12,880
checked. Most institutions,

443
00:11:12,880 --> 00:11:14,370
most third parties know

444
00:11:14,370 --> 00:11:16,049
that they can rely on that,

445
00:11:16,049 --> 00:11:17,450
um, because.

446
00:11:17,450 --> 00:11:19,010
It's established.

447
00:11:19,010 --> 00:11:20,799
It's established through statute.

448
00:11:20,799 --> 00:11:22,330
Um, you can read it in black and white,

449
00:11:22,330 --> 00:11:23,729
you can see what it looks like, and it's

450
00:11:23,729 --> 00:11:25,289
established practice. It's taken

451
00:11:25,289 --> 00:11:26,690
time for people to

452
00:11:26,690 --> 00:11:28,289
understand what they are and know that they are

453
00:11:28,289 --> 00:11:29,690
not only can be relied on, but it's

454
00:11:29,690 --> 00:11:31,349
something that is often used

455
00:11:31,349 --> 00:11:32,810
in daily life of of

456
00:11:32,810 --> 00:11:33,849
citizens across our

457
00:11:33,849 --> 00:11:35,588
state.

458
00:11:35,588 --> 00:11:36,988
However, if you were

459
00:11:36,988 --> 00:11:38,708
to, same scenario,

460
00:11:38,708 --> 00:11:40,149
have that potential award,

461
00:11:40,149 --> 00:11:41,989
that individual with the disability

462
00:11:41,989 --> 00:11:43,548
asking the court, hey, really what I'd

463
00:11:43,548 --> 00:11:44,998
like to do is I'd like to choose

464
00:11:44,998 --> 00:11:46,459
my own person that

465
00:11:46,459 --> 00:11:47,988
I rely on for decisions. I wanna

466
00:11:47,988 --> 00:11:49,508
choose my supporter and the

467
00:11:49,508 --> 00:11:50,988
statute even says I can have

468
00:11:50,988 --> 00:11:52,308
a supported decision-making

469
00:11:52,308 --> 00:11:53,929
arrangement. Uh, you can,

470
00:11:53,929 --> 00:11:55,148
you can order that

471
00:11:55,148 --> 00:11:56,699
court. Um, that's something that

472
00:11:56,699 --> 00:11:58,258
you can do.

473
00:11:58,258 --> 00:11:59,808
I can tell you as an

474
00:11:59,808 --> 00:12:01,189
attorney who's practised both in

475
00:12:01,189 --> 00:12:02,579
criminal law and civil law,

476
00:12:02,579 --> 00:12:04,138
civil law for over 30 years

477
00:12:04,138 --> 00:12:05,938
now in the state of Oklahoma,

478
00:12:05,938 --> 00:12:06,618
judges are

479
00:12:06,618 --> 00:12:09,629
often

480
00:12:09,629 --> 00:12:10,278
Loath to

481
00:12:10,278 --> 00:12:12,169
do.

482
00:12:12,169 --> 00:12:13,649
Or enter into agreements for

483
00:12:13,649 --> 00:12:15,449
something that they're, they don't have a statutory

484
00:12:15,449 --> 00:12:16,848
basis um to look

485
00:12:16,848 --> 00:12:18,368
at and to hang

486
00:12:18,368 --> 00:12:20,179
their hat on.

487
00:12:20,179 --> 00:12:21,818
And without a framework

488
00:12:21,818 --> 00:12:22,809
for supported decision

489
00:12:22,809 --> 00:12:23,919
making.

490
00:12:23,919 --> 00:12:25,998
It's basically

491
00:12:25,998 --> 00:12:27,359
a reference to a definitional

492
00:12:27,359 --> 00:12:29,278
statute without being able,

493
00:12:29,278 --> 00:12:30,748
without the court being able to look at

494
00:12:30,748 --> 00:12:32,239
it and say, OK, well, what this

495
00:12:32,239 --> 00:12:33,719
means is this

496
00:12:33,719 --> 00:12:35,229
person gets to choose

497
00:12:35,229 --> 00:12:36,839
they want to support them. There's a written

498
00:12:36,839 --> 00:12:38,278
form and document that

499
00:12:38,278 --> 00:12:39,759
goes along with that, that can be

500
00:12:39,759 --> 00:12:41,289
presented to the bank

501
00:12:41,289 --> 00:12:42,579
or to the

502
00:12:42,579 --> 00:12:44,248
uh medical provider,

503
00:12:44,248 --> 00:12:45,878
um, or to the housing provider

504
00:12:45,878 --> 00:12:47,318
or uh whatever

505
00:12:47,318 --> 00:12:48,878
third party that might be that they need

506
00:12:48,878 --> 00:12:50,359
some assistance with those decisions

507
00:12:50,359 --> 00:12:51,899
and. And there are

508
00:12:51,899 --> 00:12:53,339
some guardrails that go along

509
00:12:53,339 --> 00:12:55,138
with that pursuant to the statute

510
00:12:55,138 --> 00:12:56,899
that talk about

511
00:12:56,899 --> 00:12:58,259
ways to ways and

512
00:12:58,259 --> 00:12:59,579
requirements to report if it looks

513
00:12:59,579 --> 00:13:01,098
like that relationship is

514
00:13:01,098 --> 00:13:02,619
being abused.

515
00:13:02,619 --> 00:13:04,018
It leaves the decision

516
00:13:04,018 --> 00:13:05,528
making process with the

517
00:13:05,528 --> 00:13:07,058
individual, but allows

518
00:13:07,058 --> 00:13:08,579
the individual to have someone there

519
00:13:08,579 --> 00:13:10,109
at every step of the way

520
00:13:10,109 --> 00:13:11,659
to receive that information

521
00:13:11,659 --> 00:13:13,179
that normally might be protected

522
00:13:13,179 --> 00:13:14,698
under HIPAA, uh,

523
00:13:14,698 --> 00:13:16,168
to receive that information that

524
00:13:16,168 --> 00:13:17,738
normally might be protected because of

525
00:13:17,738 --> 00:13:18,009
Social

526
00:13:18,009 --> 00:13:24,068
Security.

527
00:13:24,068 --> 00:13:25,628
Social Social Security rules

528
00:13:25,628 --> 00:13:26,829
or otherwise,

529
00:13:26,829 --> 00:13:27,829
um, and

530
00:13:27,829 --> 00:13:29,348
so the fact

531
00:13:29,348 --> 00:13:30,859
that it exists as in the

532
00:13:30,859 --> 00:13:32,378
definitional sections

533
00:13:32,378 --> 00:13:33,829
within a guardianship,

534
00:13:33,829 --> 00:13:35,378
um, there's still a lot of

535
00:13:35,378 --> 00:13:36,859
question about whether or not a court would

536
00:13:36,859 --> 00:13:38,309
support that, uh, and whether

537
00:13:38,309 --> 00:13:39,718
or not, um, the

538
00:13:39,718 --> 00:13:41,589
court would have the framework

539
00:13:41,589 --> 00:13:42,738
necessary in this within the

540
00:13:42,738 --> 00:13:44,348
statute to design that

541
00:13:44,348 --> 00:13:45,749
properly to protect both that

542
00:13:45,749 --> 00:13:47,389
individual and, um,

543
00:13:47,389 --> 00:13:48,869
uh, the requirements for which the

544
00:13:48,869 --> 00:13:50,429
guardianship in this case potentially

545
00:13:50,429 --> 00:13:51,468
was sought for in the first

546
00:13:51,468 --> 00:13:55,968
place.

547
00:13:55,968 --> 00:13:57,619
The statutory definition,

548
00:13:57,619 --> 00:13:59,139
again, we talked about a little bit. It

549
00:13:59,139 --> 00:14:00,619
just says supported decision making

550
00:14:00,619 --> 00:14:02,139
means assistance from one or more

551
00:14:02,139 --> 00:14:03,839
persons chosen by an individual

552
00:14:03,839 --> 00:14:05,128
in understanding the nature and

553
00:14:05,128 --> 00:14:06,458
consequences of

554
00:14:06,458 --> 00:14:07,979
potential personal and financial

555
00:14:07,979 --> 00:14:09,619
decisions and to enable that

556
00:14:09,619 --> 00:14:11,259
individual to make such decisions

557
00:14:11,259 --> 00:14:13,179
and in communicating such

558
00:14:13,179 --> 00:14:14,699
decisions if consistent with the wishes

559
00:14:14,699 --> 00:14:16,999
of the individual.

560
00:14:16,999 --> 00:14:18,479
It's designed to

561
00:14:18,479 --> 00:14:19,999
be a supporter that's

562
00:14:19,999 --> 00:14:21,518
chosen by the individual, not

563
00:14:21,518 --> 00:14:23,039
chosen by the court, and

564
00:14:23,039 --> 00:14:24,259
not chosen by the person

565
00:14:24,259 --> 00:14:25,518
in the case of our

566
00:14:25,518 --> 00:14:26,759
scenario where we're in

567
00:14:26,759 --> 00:14:28,279
guardianship court already,

568
00:14:28,279 --> 00:14:30,039
um, where the potential guardian

569
00:14:30,039 --> 00:14:31,479
has chosen that person, whether it

570
00:14:31,479 --> 00:14:32,848
be themselves or another,

571
00:14:32,848 --> 00:14:34,119
another person,

572
00:14:34,119 --> 00:14:35,699
um. The role is

573
00:14:35,699 --> 00:14:37,179
to assist in the understanding and

574
00:14:37,179 --> 00:14:38,848
communication of

575
00:14:38,848 --> 00:14:40,298
their needs,

576
00:14:40,298 --> 00:14:41,899
understanding what they're being told to

577
00:14:41,899 --> 00:14:43,619
process information about what their medical

578
00:14:43,619 --> 00:14:45,059
care services

579
00:14:45,059 --> 00:14:46,259
might be, what a

580
00:14:46,259 --> 00:14:47,738
diagnosis might be, what

581
00:14:47,738 --> 00:14:49,339
potential options for a diagnosis

582
00:14:49,339 --> 00:14:50,899
might be in the,

583
00:14:50,899 --> 00:14:52,339
in the realm of financial, do

584
00:14:52,339 --> 00:14:53,938
you want a checking account?

585
00:14:53,938 --> 00:14:55,658
Do you just need a savings account?

586
00:14:55,658 --> 00:14:57,259
If you're an individual with disability,

587
00:14:57,259 --> 00:14:58,658
do you need an AB account to

588
00:14:58,658 --> 00:15:00,518
protect those funds for the future?

589
00:15:00,518 --> 00:15:02,048
Um, all of those types of decisions

590
00:15:02,048 --> 00:15:03,608
are something that the individual may be

591
00:15:03,608 --> 00:15:05,199
able to engage in

592
00:15:05,199 --> 00:15:06,608
and ultimately decide on their

593
00:15:06,608 --> 00:15:08,249
own under a supported,

594
00:15:08,249 --> 00:15:09,208
uh, decision-making

595
00:15:09,208 --> 00:15:10,729
agreement but need

596
00:15:10,729 --> 00:15:11,968
that assistance.

597
00:15:11,968 --> 00:15:13,488
Um, but the,

598
00:15:13,488 --> 00:15:15,158
the  is that the

599
00:15:15,158 --> 00:15:16,729
individual is still left with that

600
00:15:16,729 --> 00:15:18,068
decision-making power.

601
00:15:18,068 --> 00:15:19,568
Um, whereas as we'll discuss in

602
00:15:19,568 --> 00:15:20,768
a guardianship,

603
00:15:20,768 --> 00:15:22,169
um,

604
00:15:22,169 --> 00:15:23,848
the, a guardianship takes

605
00:15:23,848 --> 00:15:25,699
away that ability or that right.

606
00:15:25,699 --> 00:15:27,029
And the other important thing to

607
00:15:27,029 --> 00:15:28,548
note about the difference

608
00:15:28,548 --> 00:15:30,068
between supported decision

609
00:15:30,068 --> 00:15:31,529
making and guardianships

610
00:15:31,529 --> 00:15:32,789
as they currently stand in our

611
00:15:32,789 --> 00:15:34,429
statutes. Under

612
00:15:34,429 --> 00:15:35,878
a guardianship, there was always

613
00:15:35,878 --> 00:15:37,399
also the um what

614
00:15:37,399 --> 00:15:39,399
is potentially seen as stigma

615
00:15:39,399 --> 00:15:40,919
to enter into a guardianship, a

616
00:15:40,919 --> 00:15:42,548
court must first find that the

617
00:15:42,548 --> 00:15:44,039
individual for whom that guardianship

618
00:15:44,039 --> 00:15:45,679
is going to be over lacks

619
00:15:45,679 --> 00:15:47,159
capacity in some way,

620
00:15:47,159 --> 00:15:48,719
is incapacitated to make their

621
00:15:48,719 --> 00:15:49,918
own decisions from a legal

622
00:15:49,918 --> 00:15:51,279
standpoint. And that

623
00:15:51,279 --> 00:15:52,879
finding is, is permanent

624
00:15:52,879 --> 00:15:54,478
unless or until that guardianship

625
00:15:54,478 --> 00:15:55,798
gets either um

626
00:15:55,798 --> 00:15:56,798
modified or

627
00:15:56,798 --> 00:15:58,298
dismissed. And in

628
00:15:58,298 --> 00:15:59,548
Oklahoma, once those

629
00:15:59,548 --> 00:16:01,309
guardianships are in place,

630
00:16:01,309 --> 00:16:02,858
we do have mechanisms under

631
00:16:02,858 --> 00:16:04,268
the statute to have them

632
00:16:04,268 --> 00:16:06,059
either removed or modified,

633
00:16:06,059 --> 00:16:07,388
um, but it is often very

634
00:16:07,388 --> 00:16:08,589
difficult, very time

635
00:16:08,589 --> 00:16:10,069
consuming, uh,

636
00:16:10,069 --> 00:16:12,029
and expensive,

637
00:16:12,029 --> 00:16:13,569
um, for an individual

638
00:16:13,569 --> 00:16:14,228
to have that

639
00:16:14,228 --> 00:16:16,008
done.

640
00:16:16,008 --> 00:16:17,809
With regard to

641
00:16:17,809 --> 00:16:18,578
supported decision

642
00:16:18,578 --> 00:16:20,439
making.

643
00:16:20,439 --> 00:16:21,599
There is no finding of

644
00:16:21,599 --> 00:16:22,999
incapacity.

645
00:16:22,999 --> 00:16:23,999
It's a, it's an

646
00:16:23,999 --> 00:16:25,559
acknowledgement

647
00:16:25,559 --> 00:16:27,069
by the state from a statutory

648
00:16:27,069 --> 00:16:28,679
standpoint that there are

649
00:16:28,679 --> 00:16:30,399
individuals living with disabilities

650
00:16:30,399 --> 00:16:31,798
in our state that

651
00:16:31,798 --> 00:16:33,038
have the capacity to

652
00:16:33,038 --> 00:16:34,358
ultimately make their own

653
00:16:34,358 --> 00:16:35,999
decisions, but they may need

654
00:16:35,999 --> 00:16:37,559
more support

655
00:16:37,559 --> 00:16:39,038
than those of us

656
00:16:39,038 --> 00:16:40,548
that are living without disabilities in

657
00:16:40,548 --> 00:16:42,249
the state.

658
00:16:42,249 --> 00:16:43,728
It's basically the promise

659
00:16:43,728 --> 00:16:44,809
that the ADA gave

660
00:16:44,809 --> 00:16:46,048
that reasonable

661
00:16:46,048 --> 00:16:47,999
accommodations.

662
00:16:47,999 --> 00:16:49,399
In all steps of

663
00:16:49,399 --> 00:16:50,839
life should

664
00:16:50,839 --> 00:16:52,358
be provided to

665
00:16:52,358 --> 00:16:54,499
individuals with disabilities.

666
00:16:54,499 --> 00:16:55,999
No, I always like to reference it

667
00:16:55,999 --> 00:16:57,469
or look at it like it's

668
00:16:57,469 --> 00:16:58,899
always a matter in my mind

669
00:16:58,899 --> 00:17:00,069
of leveling the playing

670
00:17:00,069 --> 00:17:01,439
field, making sure

671
00:17:01,439 --> 00:17:02,958
that everyone has a fair shake

672
00:17:02,958 --> 00:17:04,298
and a fair shot

673
00:17:04,298 --> 00:17:05,719
at making the decisions

674
00:17:05,719 --> 00:17:07,198
and choices about their own life

675
00:17:07,198 --> 00:17:08,839
that they want to. Um,

676
00:17:08,839 --> 00:17:10,319
and if they need that

677
00:17:10,319 --> 00:17:11,798
assistance, I see that

678
00:17:11,798 --> 00:17:13,319
as a reasonable accommodation. I

679
00:17:13,319 --> 00:17:14,958
see supported decision making

680
00:17:14,958 --> 00:17:16,559
as directly in line with,

681
00:17:16,559 --> 00:17:17,758
um, the promise of the

682
00:17:17,758 --> 00:17:19,279
ADA for,

683
00:17:19,279 --> 00:17:20,758
um, accommodations

684
00:17:20,758 --> 00:17:22,238
and supports, um, that

685
00:17:22,238 --> 00:17:23,978
might be necessary.

686
00:17:23,978 --> 00:17:25,458
For them to be able for individuals to

687
00:17:25,458 --> 00:17:27,249
be able to participate fully

688
00:17:27,249 --> 00:17:28,819
uh in the panoply of decisions

689
00:17:28,819 --> 00:17:30,279
of life that we make,

690
00:17:30,279 --> 00:17:31,738
um, with

691
00:17:31,738 --> 00:17:32,819
that help and

692
00:17:32,819 --> 00:17:35,298
support.

693
00:17:35,298 --> 00:17:37,038
I think we're

694
00:17:37,038 --> 00:17:38,369
Again, we talked about Everett's

695
00:17:38,369 --> 00:17:39,888
law already, um, a little

696
00:17:39,888 --> 00:17:41,608
bit again, the supported

697
00:17:41,608 --> 00:17:43,089
decision making component of that is

698
00:17:43,089 --> 00:17:44,819
exactly as we've described.

699
00:17:44,819 --> 00:17:46,448
Um, we already have

700
00:17:46,448 --> 00:17:47,728
in place in that very

701
00:17:47,728 --> 00:17:49,168
limited in

702
00:17:49,168 --> 00:17:50,749
that very limited circumstance

703
00:17:50,749 --> 00:17:51,958
and statute of organ

704
00:17:51,958 --> 00:17:52,969
donation,

705
00:17:52,969 --> 00:17:54,719
um.

706
00:17:54,719 --> 00:17:56,238
Uh, language

707
00:17:56,238 --> 00:17:57,399
that talks about not

708
00:17:57,399 --> 00:17:58,879
discriminated against someone just

709
00:17:58,879 --> 00:18:00,518
because they've chosen to have

710
00:18:00,518 --> 00:18:02,119
or have chosen to rely on a

711
00:18:02,119 --> 00:18:03,798
supported decision maker and

712
00:18:03,798 --> 00:18:05,198
that that is something that

713
00:18:05,198 --> 00:18:06,638
a third party in this case the

714
00:18:06,638 --> 00:18:08,119
medical field dealing again

715
00:18:08,119 --> 00:18:10,078
in that very limited circumstance,

716
00:18:10,078 --> 00:18:11,478
um, uh, to a certain

717
00:18:11,478 --> 00:18:13,349
degree can rely on.

718
00:18:13,349 --> 00:18:14,779
Um, the next

719
00:18:14,779 --> 00:18:15,788
one, next slide

720
00:18:15,788 --> 00:18:17,569
please.

721
00:18:17,569 --> 00:18:19,008
So the different tools that

722
00:18:19,008 --> 00:18:20,608
we have in our toolbox

723
00:18:20,608 --> 00:18:22,249
for to help with this

724
00:18:22,249 --> 00:18:23,668
decision making um

725
00:18:23,668 --> 00:18:25,328
require different questions and there's

726
00:18:25,328 --> 00:18:26,288
different ways to look at

727
00:18:26,288 --> 00:18:27,899
them.

728
00:18:27,899 --> 00:18:29,458
The biggest questions are who's

729
00:18:29,458 --> 00:18:31,059
gonna be making the decision under

730
00:18:31,059 --> 00:18:32,578
whatever type of arrangement it might

731
00:18:32,578 --> 00:18:33,978
be. What

732
00:18:33,978 --> 00:18:35,298
decisions are covered,

733
00:18:35,298 --> 00:18:36,738
um, and again, we've talked

734
00:18:36,738 --> 00:18:38,249
about kind of some of the big ones that we

735
00:18:38,249 --> 00:18:39,619
usually think about are,

736
00:18:39,619 --> 00:18:41,129
are issues that we all deal with

737
00:18:41,129 --> 00:18:42,578
in our personal lives,

738
00:18:42,578 --> 00:18:44,018
healthcare, finances, federal

739
00:18:44,018 --> 00:18:45,538
benefits, um, and

740
00:18:45,538 --> 00:18:46,689
other areas that we could

741
00:18:46,689 --> 00:18:48,458
define. Um,

742
00:18:48,458 --> 00:18:49,918
one of them I think higher

743
00:18:49,918 --> 00:18:51,638
education, I think specifically.

744
00:18:51,638 --> 00:18:53,078
Um, comes into play and,

745
00:18:53,078 --> 00:18:54,559
and certainly an example again, if

746
00:18:54,559 --> 00:18:56,238
we, we

747
00:18:56,238 --> 00:18:57,758
look for examples later, I could, I

748
00:18:57,758 --> 00:18:58,719
could give some examples of

749
00:18:58,719 --> 00:19:00,219
that. How

750
00:19:00,219 --> 00:19:01,179
was that authority

751
00:19:01,179 --> 00:19:02,559
created? And

752
00:19:02,559 --> 00:19:04,078
who provides the oversight

753
00:19:04,078 --> 00:19:05,758
for that arrangement.

754
00:19:05,758 --> 00:19:07,599
So if you go to the next slide, please.

755
00:19:07,599 --> 00:19:09,059
So when you look at the tool,

756
00:19:09,059 --> 00:19:10,589
um, if you look at guardianship at the

757
00:19:10,589 --> 00:19:12,749
bottom of that slide.

758
00:19:12,749 --> 00:19:14,219
Who decides, it depends on the court.

759
00:19:14,219 --> 00:19:15,578
The court makes that decision

760
00:19:15,578 --> 00:19:17,018
about um whether or

761
00:19:17,018 --> 00:19:18,779
not that's going to be a full guardianship.

762
00:19:18,779 --> 00:19:20,189
Do they make a decision that an

763
00:19:20,189 --> 00:19:22,099
individual lacks all capacity

764
00:19:22,099 --> 00:19:23,689
to make any decisions about their

765
00:19:23,689 --> 00:19:25,179
life, um, and

766
00:19:25,179 --> 00:19:26,698
that, that, that power should be

767
00:19:26,698 --> 00:19:28,298
rested within someone else.

768
00:19:28,298 --> 00:19:29,978
And then who may take that,

769
00:19:29,978 --> 00:19:31,779
who may take that legal action,

770
00:19:31,779 --> 00:19:33,179
uh, would be the guardian

771
00:19:33,179 --> 00:19:34,538
ultimately if a guardianship,

772
00:19:34,538 --> 00:19:35,939
uh, was in fact put in

773
00:19:35,939 --> 00:19:37,328
place and they may act

774
00:19:37,328 --> 00:19:38,779
only within the powers assigned

775
00:19:38,779 --> 00:19:40,339
by the court, but generally speaking, and

776
00:19:40,339 --> 00:19:41,899
as, as we've seen.

777
00:19:41,899 --> 00:19:43,208
Um, often in

778
00:19:43,208 --> 00:19:44,668
Oklahoma courts, um,

779
00:19:44,668 --> 00:19:46,189
guard the general guardianship is kind

780
00:19:46,189 --> 00:19:47,869
of the default. the guardianship whereby

781
00:19:47,869 --> 00:19:49,429
all decision making is removed

782
00:19:49,429 --> 00:19:51,108
from the individual, um,

783
00:19:51,108 --> 00:19:52,349
and that rests with another

784
00:19:52,349 --> 00:19:54,018
person.

785
00:19:54,018 --> 00:19:55,569
If you look at the power of

786
00:19:55,569 --> 00:19:57,099
attorney, again, we

787
00:19:57,099 --> 00:19:58,649
have statutes that talk about power of

788
00:19:58,649 --> 00:20:00,059
attorney. um the

789
00:20:00,059 --> 00:20:01,538
person who decides that

790
00:20:01,538 --> 00:20:03,139
is the individual um

791
00:20:03,139 --> 00:20:04,978
ultimately retains the authority.

792
00:20:04,978 --> 00:20:05,978
but again with the power of

793
00:20:05,978 --> 00:20:07,559
attorney. At some

794
00:20:07,559 --> 00:20:09,158
point, the reason that it comes

795
00:20:09,158 --> 00:20:10,759
into play is when an

796
00:20:10,759 --> 00:20:12,269
individual oftentimes

797
00:20:12,269 --> 00:20:13,798
absent the circumstance of when

798
00:20:13,798 --> 00:20:15,509
they are um

799
00:20:15,509 --> 00:20:16,999
physically unable and we think

800
00:20:16,999 --> 00:20:18,608
about that oftentimes in the military

801
00:20:18,608 --> 00:20:20,559
context,

802
00:20:20,559 --> 00:20:22,158
uh, lots of

803
00:20:22,158 --> 00:20:23,738
people serving our country will

804
00:20:23,738 --> 00:20:25,238
get a power of attorney that

805
00:20:25,238 --> 00:20:26,819
may have something to do with either the

806
00:20:26,819 --> 00:20:28,319
education of their children or healthcare for

807
00:20:28,319 --> 00:20:29,639
their children if they get

808
00:20:29,639 --> 00:20:30,999
deployed overseas and aren't

809
00:20:30,999 --> 00:20:32,478
readily available to make those

810
00:20:32,478 --> 00:20:34,119
decisions. we see that a lot.

811
00:20:34,119 --> 00:20:35,639
Um, where they have placed

812
00:20:35,639 --> 00:20:36,999
either a, a trusted,

813
00:20:36,999 --> 00:20:38,598
uh, family member or a

814
00:20:38,598 --> 00:20:40,038
trusted friend, uh,

815
00:20:40,038 --> 00:20:41,398
with that power of attorney. But

816
00:20:41,398 --> 00:20:42,959
generally speaking, power of attorneys,

817
00:20:42,959 --> 00:20:44,759
especially in the medical context,

818
00:20:44,759 --> 00:20:46,158
uh, and in the financial

819
00:20:46,158 --> 00:20:47,398
context,

820
00:20:47,398 --> 00:20:48,988
ultimately deal again with looking

821
00:20:48,988 --> 00:20:50,478
at has the individual

822
00:20:50,478 --> 00:20:51,879
been determined either permanently

823
00:20:51,879 --> 00:20:53,189
or temporarily,

824
00:20:53,189 --> 00:20:54,838
uh, to have lost capacity

825
00:20:54,838 --> 00:20:56,329
to make that decision. So

826
00:20:56,329 --> 00:20:57,879
again, we have that, that issue of

827
00:20:57,879 --> 00:20:59,559
capacity, um, and,

828
00:20:59,559 --> 00:21:01,119
and someone having to determine

829
00:21:01,119 --> 00:21:02,499
that I as

830
00:21:02,499 --> 00:21:04,129
an individual no longer have

831
00:21:04,129 --> 00:21:05,579
the right or the ability to

832
00:21:05,579 --> 00:21:07,098
make that choice for myself and

833
00:21:07,098 --> 00:21:08,379
so this document comes into

834
00:21:08,379 --> 00:21:09,898
play where someone else is

835
00:21:09,898 --> 00:21:11,699
allowed to make that decision.

836
00:21:11,699 --> 00:21:13,059
Um, and then we look at

837
00:21:13,059 --> 00:21:14,538
supported decision making.

838
00:21:14,538 --> 00:21:15,939
In supported decision making,

839
00:21:15,939 --> 00:21:17,418
the individual, uh,

840
00:21:17,418 --> 00:21:18,579
is the person,

841
00:21:18,579 --> 00:21:20,108
uh, who is

842
00:21:20,108 --> 00:21:21,778
making the ultimately making the

843
00:21:21,778 --> 00:21:23,658
decisions. And

844
00:21:23,658 --> 00:21:25,079
the person who ultimately can take

845
00:21:25,079 --> 00:21:26,459
that legal action is

846
00:21:26,459 --> 00:21:27,898
the individual. Um,

847
00:21:27,898 --> 00:21:29,139
the supporter is allowed

848
00:21:29,139 --> 00:21:30,658
and required, uh,

849
00:21:30,658 --> 00:21:32,098
to assist, uh,

850
00:21:32,098 --> 00:21:33,579
but needs separate authority to

851
00:21:33,579 --> 00:21:35,098
act. And if they have

852
00:21:35,098 --> 00:21:36,499
separate authority to

853
00:21:36,499 --> 00:21:38,179
act independently of the individual,

854
00:21:38,179 --> 00:21:39,619
again, we'd be looking at either a power of

855
00:21:39,619 --> 00:21:41,079
attorney or a guardianship or something

856
00:21:41,079 --> 00:21:43,679
of that.

857
00:21:43,679 --> 00:21:44,478
go to the next slide,

858
00:21:44,478 --> 00:21:46,579
please.

859
00:21:46,579 --> 00:21:48,019
Next thing, the question that we ask

860
00:21:48,019 --> 00:21:49,488
is how does authority begin or

861
00:21:49,488 --> 00:21:51,218
end? Again, under supported

862
00:21:51,218 --> 00:21:52,778
decision making, the individual chooses

863
00:21:52,778 --> 00:21:54,298
to enter into that arrangement. They

864
00:21:54,298 --> 00:21:55,939
pick the person or individual

865
00:21:55,939 --> 00:21:57,449
or individuals that they want to be

866
00:21:57,449 --> 00:21:58,738
their supporters.

867
00:21:58,738 --> 00:22:00,179
Um, and

868
00:22:00,179 --> 00:22:01,699
the individual, uh, has

869
00:22:01,699 --> 00:22:03,139
the right to stop using

870
00:22:03,139 --> 00:22:04,298
that support.

871
00:22:04,298 --> 00:22:05,259
Um,

872
00:22:05,259 --> 00:22:06,699
however, that's

873
00:22:06,699 --> 00:22:08,218
not clearly defined in our statutes

874
00:22:08,218 --> 00:22:09,538
right now. If you look at those

875
00:22:09,538 --> 00:22:11,038
two. Um,

876
00:22:11,038 --> 00:22:12,598
statutes that I referenced earlier, the

877
00:22:12,598 --> 00:22:14,278
Title 30 guardianship definitional

878
00:22:14,278 --> 00:22:15,918
statutes and

879
00:22:15,918 --> 00:22:17,389
Title 63 under Everett's

880
00:22:17,389 --> 00:22:18,959
law, again in the definitional

881
00:22:18,959 --> 00:22:20,038
statutes there are

882
00:22:20,038 --> 00:22:21,319
no

883
00:22:21,319 --> 00:22:22,519
guidelines, there are

884
00:22:22,519 --> 00:22:23,999
no, um,

885
00:22:23,999 --> 00:22:25,439
restrictions or,

886
00:22:25,439 --> 00:22:26,999
um, instructions

887
00:22:26,999 --> 00:22:28,499
basically. Within our

888
00:22:28,499 --> 00:22:30,179
current statutory framework,

889
00:22:30,179 --> 00:22:31,908
um, to,

890
00:22:31,908 --> 00:22:33,338
um, provide guidance on

891
00:22:33,338 --> 00:22:35,019
an individual or a family

892
00:22:35,019 --> 00:22:36,559
that wanted to, uh

893
00:22:36,559 --> 00:22:38,298
utilize the disorder,

894
00:22:38,298 --> 00:22:39,699
sorry, the supported decision making

895
00:22:39,699 --> 00:22:41,259
arrangement as a least

896
00:22:41,259 --> 00:22:42,809
restrictive alternative to

897
00:22:42,809 --> 00:22:44,209
something like a power of attorney or a

898
00:22:44,209 --> 00:22:46,709
guardianship.

899
00:22:46,709 --> 00:22:48,158
Um, again

900
00:22:48,158 --> 00:22:49,509
we've talked about it, the power of

901
00:22:49,509 --> 00:22:51,238
attorney and the individual,

902
00:22:51,238 --> 00:22:52,598
um, we're

903
00:22:52,598 --> 00:22:54,119
talking about whether or not a

904
00:22:54,119 --> 00:22:55,639
third party, uh, comes

905
00:22:55,639 --> 00:22:57,199
in seeking that guardianship and the court

906
00:22:57,199 --> 00:22:59,238
ultimately orders that guardianship,

907
00:22:59,238 --> 00:23:00,759
uh, or the power of attorney where we

908
00:23:00,759 --> 00:23:02,189
still have situations where in

909
00:23:02,189 --> 00:23:03,639
most cases there has to be

910
00:23:03,639 --> 00:23:05,118
a finding of incapacity of the

911
00:23:05,118 --> 00:23:06,708
individual for that authority

912
00:23:06,708 --> 00:23:08,227
to kick in and once

913
00:23:08,227 --> 00:23:09,668
it does that decision making is

914
00:23:09,668 --> 00:23:11,267
taken away from that

915
00:23:11,267 --> 00:23:13,197
individual.

916
00:23:13,197 --> 00:23:13,718
Next slide,

917
00:23:13,718 --> 00:23:16,166
please.

918
00:23:16,166 --> 00:23:17,906
We do have under our guardianship

919
00:23:17,906 --> 00:23:19,056
statutes um two

920
00:23:19,056 --> 00:23:20,486
alternatives. We have a

921
00:23:20,486 --> 00:23:21,967
general guardianship that we've discussed

922
00:23:21,967 --> 00:23:23,367
which basically takes fines

923
00:23:23,367 --> 00:23:24,847
uh that

924
00:23:24,847 --> 00:23:26,326
the individual

925
00:23:26,326 --> 00:23:27,767
over whom the guardianship is to be

926
00:23:27,767 --> 00:23:29,236
placed lacks all capacity to

927
00:23:29,236 --> 00:23:30,986
make any decisions

928
00:23:30,986 --> 00:23:32,606
on their own behalf

929
00:23:32,606 --> 00:23:34,457
and then we have a limited guardianship

930
00:23:34,457 --> 00:23:35,916
those are used far less

931
00:23:35,916 --> 00:23:37,506
often in Oklahoma but they

932
00:23:37,506 --> 00:23:39,027
are a tool. Uh,

933
00:23:39,027 --> 00:23:40,618
within the guardianship toolbox

934
00:23:40,618 --> 00:23:42,178
and generally a limited guardianship

935
00:23:42,178 --> 00:23:43,057
would be,

936
00:23:43,057 --> 00:23:44,498
um, they

937
00:23:44,498 --> 00:23:46,057
usually go one of two ways.

938
00:23:46,057 --> 00:23:47,338
Oftentimes someone may

939
00:23:47,338 --> 00:23:48,858
need assistance

940
00:23:48,858 --> 00:23:50,298
with their medical decisions

941
00:23:50,298 --> 00:23:51,777
and medical care, but

942
00:23:51,777 --> 00:23:53,338
in all other respects

943
00:23:53,338 --> 00:23:54,858
they can find their own home or

944
00:23:54,858 --> 00:23:56,338
apartment, enter into a

945
00:23:56,338 --> 00:23:58,018
lease, understand that, um,

946
00:23:58,018 --> 00:23:59,537
and maybe use informal

947
00:23:59,537 --> 00:24:00,978
support to do that, um,

948
00:24:00,978 --> 00:24:02,408
but legally retain the

949
00:24:02,408 --> 00:24:03,698
capacity to do that and handle their

950
00:24:03,698 --> 00:24:05,257
finances and

951
00:24:05,257 --> 00:24:06,778
sometimes it's just the opposite.

952
00:24:06,778 --> 00:24:08,043
Sometimes, hey. I,

953
00:24:08,043 --> 00:24:09,772
I,

954
00:24:09,772 --> 00:24:11,272
I, I understand my long term medical

955
00:24:11,272 --> 00:24:12,643
conditions. I understand how to talk to my

956
00:24:12,643 --> 00:24:13,863
doctor. I'm comfortable doing

957
00:24:13,863 --> 00:24:15,403
that, um, but I really

958
00:24:15,403 --> 00:24:16,842
want some help with my finances. It's

959
00:24:16,842 --> 00:24:18,202
very confusing. I

960
00:24:18,202 --> 00:24:19,702
don't, you know, I know that my rent's

961
00:24:19,702 --> 00:24:21,162
due every month, um, but I

962
00:24:21,162 --> 00:24:22,603
don't know exactly how that

963
00:24:22,603 --> 00:24:23,952
money's coming out of my Social

964
00:24:23,952 --> 00:24:25,353
Security. What will I

965
00:24:25,353 --> 00:24:26,952
have left over

966
00:24:26,952 --> 00:24:28,202
afterwards? what can I use it

967
00:24:28,202 --> 00:24:29,723
on? And so sometimes we

968
00:24:29,723 --> 00:24:30,923
see a limited guardianship or

969
00:24:30,923 --> 00:24:32,403
someone, uh, an

970
00:24:32,403 --> 00:24:33,762
individual needs

971
00:24:33,762 --> 00:24:35,243
assistance with one

972
00:24:35,243 --> 00:24:36,253
of those issues but

973
00:24:36,253 --> 00:24:37,848
again. Whether

974
00:24:37,848 --> 00:24:39,298
it's the medical side or

975
00:24:39,298 --> 00:24:41,058
the um

976
00:24:41,058 --> 00:24:42,618
financial side,

977
00:24:42,618 --> 00:24:44,028
all of that decision

978
00:24:44,028 --> 00:24:45,647
making authority actually rests

979
00:24:45,647 --> 00:24:47,058
with another individual who's been

980
00:24:47,058 --> 00:24:48,518
appointed as the guardian.

981
00:24:48,518 --> 00:24:50,397
And so not only is that

982
00:24:50,397 --> 00:24:51,558
individual who's under the limit

983
00:24:51,558 --> 00:24:53,158
guardianship, um, getting

984
00:24:53,158 --> 00:24:54,808
that assistance, but

985
00:24:54,808 --> 00:24:55,997
when their viewpoints

986
00:24:55,997 --> 00:24:57,567
differ, uh, when

987
00:24:57,567 --> 00:24:59,397
that decision by the individual

988
00:24:59,397 --> 00:25:00,478
would be something different than the

989
00:25:00,478 --> 00:25:02,037
guardian would make

990
00:25:02,037 --> 00:25:03,478
the guardian's decision trumps and

991
00:25:03,478 --> 00:25:05,107
they're allowed to make that decision

992
00:25:05,107 --> 00:25:06,707
even over the objection of the

993
00:25:06,707 --> 00:25:08,188
individual under who

994
00:25:08,188 --> 00:25:09,058
who's under the limited

995
00:25:09,058 --> 00:25:13,097
guardianship.

996
00:25:13,097 --> 00:25:14,377
Uh, next slide, yeah, thank

997
00:25:14,377 --> 00:25:16,017
you.

998
00:25:16,017 --> 00:25:17,537
so this is, uh, we've kind

999
00:25:17,537 --> 00:25:19,058
of talked about this again already. That's

1000
00:25:19,058 --> 00:25:20,257
why I don't like to be tied to the

1001
00:25:20,257 --> 00:25:21,778
slides, um, but under

1002
00:25:21,778 --> 00:25:23,097
power of attorney, the individual

1003
00:25:23,097 --> 00:25:24,498
authorized the agent to act in

1004
00:25:24,498 --> 00:25:25,858
specific matters

1005
00:25:25,858 --> 00:25:28,017
and, uh.

1006
00:25:28,017 --> 00:25:29,448
There the document and the

1007
00:25:29,448 --> 00:25:30,938
governing laws which we do have on

1008
00:25:30,938 --> 00:25:32,418
the books we do have

1009
00:25:32,418 --> 00:25:34,097
um that framework

1010
00:25:34,097 --> 00:25:35,328
for powers of

1011
00:25:35,328 --> 00:25:36,778
attorney in the state of Oklahoma

1012
00:25:36,778 --> 00:25:38,147
in our statutes

1013
00:25:38,147 --> 00:25:39,537
representative payee that's

1014
00:25:39,537 --> 00:25:41,017
uh an individual

1015
00:25:41,017 --> 00:25:42,657
who uh whom this

1016
00:25:42,657 --> 00:25:44,118
um. Social

1017
00:25:44,118 --> 00:25:45,528
Security Administration

1018
00:25:45,528 --> 00:25:47,047
has designated to

1019
00:25:47,047 --> 00:25:48,688
receive someone's payments who is

1020
00:25:48,688 --> 00:25:50,127
someone who receives

1021
00:25:50,127 --> 00:25:51,888
either SSA or SSDI

1022
00:25:51,888 --> 00:25:53,528
or SSI or SSDI

1023
00:25:53,528 --> 00:25:55,287
benefits. Um,

1024
00:25:55,287 --> 00:25:56,638
and, uh the

1025
00:25:56,638 --> 00:25:58,328
agency makes that appointment

1026
00:25:58,328 --> 00:25:59,718
and generally you have to go through the

1027
00:25:59,718 --> 00:26:01,047
agency, that federal

1028
00:26:01,047 --> 00:26:02,808
agency to either have,

1029
00:26:02,808 --> 00:26:03,647
um, become your own

1030
00:26:03,647 --> 00:26:05,207
repayee

1031
00:26:05,207 --> 00:26:06,888
or to have that repayee changed

1032
00:26:06,888 --> 00:26:08,407
or replaced. Uh,

1033
00:26:08,407 --> 00:26:09,888
and then we talk about a little

1034
00:26:09,888 --> 00:26:11,688
bit about informal support.

1035
00:26:11,688 --> 00:26:13,097
Um, that's, you

1036
00:26:13,097 --> 00:26:14,698
know, we sort of all in our daily

1037
00:26:14,698 --> 00:26:16,297
lives rely on informal

1038
00:26:16,297 --> 00:26:17,537
support, whether that be, you know, a

1039
00:26:17,537 --> 00:26:19,058
parent, a spouse, a

1040
00:26:19,058 --> 00:26:20,418
sibling, a church

1041
00:26:20,418 --> 00:26:22,377
friend, whoever it might be.

1042
00:26:22,377 --> 00:26:23,938
Um, and, and as

1043
00:26:23,938 --> 00:26:25,457
we all know, asking someone

1044
00:26:25,457 --> 00:26:26,978
else, hey, you know, I need to get my roof

1045
00:26:26,978 --> 00:26:28,657
done, but, um,

1046
00:26:28,657 --> 00:26:30,177
I don't know who to choose. I know my

1047
00:26:30,177 --> 00:26:31,647
insurance company's been real difficult

1048
00:26:31,647 --> 00:26:33,138
about that. Uh, do you

1049
00:26:33,138 --> 00:26:34,618
have a company? Do you have a suggestion? What do

1050
00:26:34,618 --> 00:26:36,097
I do if they say no? You

1051
00:26:36,097 --> 00:26:37,578
know, we all ask our friends,

1052
00:26:37,578 --> 00:26:38,938
our neighbours, our family members,

1053
00:26:38,938 --> 00:26:40,257
whatever. Um,

1054
00:26:40,257 --> 00:26:41,797
but If in

1055
00:26:41,797 --> 00:26:43,287
that same discussion,

1056
00:26:43,287 --> 00:26:44,918
either with the insurance company or

1057
00:26:44,918 --> 00:26:46,397
potentially with the potential

1058
00:26:46,397 --> 00:26:47,638
roofing company,

1059
00:26:47,638 --> 00:26:49,118
um, they don't have

1060
00:26:49,118 --> 00:26:50,588
to rely on your friend or your

1061
00:26:50,588 --> 00:26:52,078
neighbour to help you

1062
00:26:52,078 --> 00:26:53,558
work through that decision. They

1063
00:26:53,558 --> 00:26:55,067
don't have to be there uh

1064
00:26:55,067 --> 00:26:56,638
and they don't have to allow someone

1065
00:26:56,638 --> 00:26:58,157
to be there with you for the

1066
00:26:58,157 --> 00:26:59,558
contractual discussion

1067
00:26:59,558 --> 00:27:01,278
about, hey, you know, we're gonna

1068
00:27:01,278 --> 00:27:02,797
try to work through your insurance company

1069
00:27:02,797 --> 00:27:04,358
to do this, we're gonna, but

1070
00:27:04,358 --> 00:27:05,858
here's the contract and you can only

1071
00:27:05,858 --> 00:27:07,377
go with us for the next 6 months

1072
00:27:07,377 --> 00:27:08,797
or whatever it says, we're gonna try to get

1073
00:27:08,797 --> 00:27:10,278
this done. Uh, they

1074
00:27:10,278 --> 00:27:11,797
don't have to allow another person into

1075
00:27:11,797 --> 00:27:13,237
that room or that conversation, even

1076
00:27:13,237 --> 00:27:14,718
if you say, hey, I really want

1077
00:27:14,718 --> 00:27:16,147
my dad to help me because I don't

1078
00:27:16,147 --> 00:27:17,278
really understand all this. I want some

1079
00:27:17,278 --> 00:27:18,838
help. There's no, there's

1080
00:27:18,838 --> 00:27:20,318
nothing that says they have to allow you to

1081
00:27:20,318 --> 00:27:22,387
do that right now.

1082
00:27:22,387 --> 00:27:23,878
But if you look at a supported

1083
00:27:23,878 --> 00:27:25,438
decision making arrangement and if we had

1084
00:27:25,438 --> 00:27:27,227
a, if we, if Oklahoma

1085
00:27:27,227 --> 00:27:28,378
under the statutory

1086
00:27:28,378 --> 00:27:29,987
framework actually had

1087
00:27:29,987 --> 00:27:31,558
definitions

1088
00:27:31,558 --> 00:27:32,908
and a framework and

1089
00:27:32,908 --> 00:27:34,278
uh even uh

1090
00:27:34,278 --> 00:27:35,797
potentially a model

1091
00:27:35,797 --> 00:27:37,677
um form of

1092
00:27:37,677 --> 00:27:39,237
for what a supported decision making

1093
00:27:39,237 --> 00:27:40,677
arrangement looks like

1094
00:27:40,677 --> 00:27:42,147
that third party, the

1095
00:27:42,147 --> 00:27:43,598
your primary

1096
00:27:43,598 --> 00:27:45,357
care physician, your banking

1097
00:27:45,357 --> 00:27:47,197
institution, uh, your

1098
00:27:47,197 --> 00:27:48,758
lender, your lender or

1099
00:27:48,758 --> 00:27:49,637
your,

1100
00:27:49,637 --> 00:27:50,938
um.

1101
00:27:50,938 --> 00:27:52,528
Potential landlord could

1102
00:27:52,528 --> 00:27:54,028
rely on that under Oklahoma

1103
00:27:54,028 --> 00:27:55,588
statute because there's somewhere they could

1104
00:27:55,588 --> 00:27:57,028
look to see this isn't

1105
00:27:57,028 --> 00:27:58,628
something that this person

1106
00:27:58,628 --> 00:27:59,908
just brought to me and made

1107
00:27:59,908 --> 00:28:01,267
up. This isn't something that

1108
00:28:01,267 --> 00:28:02,588
 generated this is

1109
00:28:02,588 --> 00:28:04,107
something that the

1110
00:28:04,107 --> 00:28:05,628
Oklahoma statutes clearly

1111
00:28:05,628 --> 00:28:07,227
say here's the framework

1112
00:28:07,227 --> 00:28:08,748
of what this type of arrangement

1113
00:28:08,748 --> 00:28:10,308
is. It is allowed

1114
00:28:10,308 --> 00:28:11,707
and supported under

1115
00:28:11,707 --> 00:28:13,447
Oklahoma statute,

1116
00:28:13,447 --> 00:28:14,947
uh, and here's in

1117
00:28:14,947 --> 00:28:16,468
form or fashion sort of what it should

1118
00:28:16,468 --> 00:28:17,947
look like just like we have with

1119
00:28:17,947 --> 00:28:19,348
our powers of attorney and some of our

1120
00:28:19,348 --> 00:28:21,707
guardianship forms.

1121
00:28:21,707 --> 00:28:23,077
Um, so the current,

1122
00:28:23,077 --> 00:28:24,438
uh,

1123
00:28:24,438 --> 00:28:25,838
Recognition, I, I kind of just

1124
00:28:25,838 --> 00:28:27,368
talked about it, but uh if you go

1125
00:28:27,368 --> 00:28:28,758
to the next slide,

1126
00:28:28,758 --> 00:28:30,227
those questions that are kind of left

1127
00:28:30,227 --> 00:28:31,677
outstanding right now,

1128
00:28:31,677 --> 00:28:33,278
um, without that statutory

1129
00:28:33,278 --> 00:28:34,718
framework for supported decision

1130
00:28:34,718 --> 00:28:36,237
making are must an

1131
00:28:36,237 --> 00:28:37,797
agreement follow a particular form.

1132
00:28:37,797 --> 00:28:38,868
If I wanted to,

1133
00:28:38,868 --> 00:28:40,438
uh, enter into a

1134
00:28:40,438 --> 00:28:41,998
supported decision-making arrangement, I

1135
00:28:41,998 --> 00:28:43,498
wanted someone, um, because

1136
00:28:43,498 --> 00:28:44,917
of my disability to help me with

1137
00:28:44,917 --> 00:28:46,487
that. There's nothing to

1138
00:28:46,487 --> 00:28:48,618
show me or guide me.

1139
00:28:48,618 --> 00:28:50,137
How I, how I do that.

1140
00:28:50,137 --> 00:28:51,618
What do I, what

1141
00:28:51,618 --> 00:28:53,137
do I, what do I

1142
00:28:53,137 --> 00:28:54,618
write down? Do I do it, you know, like

1143
00:28:54,618 --> 00:28:55,697
a holistic will on a

1144
00:28:55,697 --> 00:28:57,137
napkin? What,

1145
00:28:57,137 --> 00:28:58,577
how, how do I have

1146
00:28:58,577 --> 00:29:00,047
to say, do I have to put the

1147
00:29:00,047 --> 00:29:01,378
person's name or can I just put

1148
00:29:01,378 --> 00:29:02,848
grandma? Uh, do I have

1149
00:29:02,848 --> 00:29:04,177
to date it? Does it have to be

1150
00:29:04,177 --> 00:29:05,378
not? I mean, what do I do with

1151
00:29:05,378 --> 00:29:06,897
this? It says I can have

1152
00:29:06,897 --> 00:29:08,517
this. I don't know what it is.

1153
00:29:08,517 --> 00:29:09,968
Um, what

1154
00:29:09,968 --> 00:29:11,397
information may a supporter receive with

1155
00:29:11,397 --> 00:29:12,927
the individual's consent?

1156
00:29:12,927 --> 00:29:14,167
So again,

1157
00:29:14,167 --> 00:29:15,408
within not only the

1158
00:29:15,408 --> 00:29:16,957
statutory framework that could be

1159
00:29:16,957 --> 00:29:18,607
devised, but also

1160
00:29:18,607 --> 00:29:20,278
the potential kind of model

1161
00:29:20,278 --> 00:29:21,447
form or forms that could be

1162
00:29:21,447 --> 00:29:22,767
devised, you,

1163
00:29:22,767 --> 00:29:24,327
you have, you could have

1164
00:29:24,327 --> 00:29:25,508
a definitional section

1165
00:29:25,508 --> 00:29:27,447
of what

1166
00:29:27,447 --> 00:29:28,808
types of decisions can be

1167
00:29:28,808 --> 00:29:30,207
made, um, and

1168
00:29:30,207 --> 00:29:31,647
what types of decisions do

1169
00:29:31,647 --> 00:29:33,288
I as the individual want assistance

1170
00:29:33,288 --> 00:29:35,008
with, um,

1171
00:29:35,008 --> 00:29:36,288
clearly spelled out on a

1172
00:29:36,288 --> 00:29:37,868
form. Um,

1173
00:29:37,868 --> 00:29:39,427
that is signed by the parties and can be

1174
00:29:39,427 --> 00:29:40,408
presented,

1175
00:29:40,408 --> 00:29:42,028
um, to

1176
00:29:42,028 --> 00:29:43,588
that third party who

1177
00:29:43,588 --> 00:29:44,947
would then presumably be able to

1178
00:29:44,947 --> 00:29:46,177
rely on that because of the

1179
00:29:46,177 --> 00:29:47,547
basis, um, that could be

1180
00:29:47,547 --> 00:29:49,508
created under Oklahoma statute.

1181
00:29:49,508 --> 00:29:51,107
Um, when should a provider,

1182
00:29:51,107 --> 00:29:52,628
school employer, landlord, or

1183
00:29:52,628 --> 00:29:54,227
financial institution

1184
00:29:54,227 --> 00:29:55,577
recognize the supporter's role?

1185
00:29:55,577 --> 00:29:56,908
Again, if you go into the

1186
00:29:56,908 --> 00:29:58,107
doctor's office with

1187
00:29:58,107 --> 00:29:59,628
your 22 year

1188
00:29:59,628 --> 00:30:01,308
old daughter and she's,

1189
00:30:01,308 --> 00:30:02,308
uh, because of

1190
00:30:02,308 --> 00:30:03,927
her Uh, mental

1191
00:30:03,927 --> 00:30:05,487
health diagnosis of anxiety,

1192
00:30:05,487 --> 00:30:06,727
OCD and

1193
00:30:06,727 --> 00:30:10,068
um

1194
00:30:10,068 --> 00:30:11,618
And her other medical

1195
00:30:11,618 --> 00:30:13,357
uh conditions

1196
00:30:13,357 --> 00:30:14,838
gets catatonic when she has to

1197
00:30:14,838 --> 00:30:16,318
talk to someone about scheduling an

1198
00:30:16,318 --> 00:30:17,718
appointment or about

1199
00:30:17,718 --> 00:30:19,278
telling the doctor why she's there that

1200
00:30:19,278 --> 00:30:20,917
day or how does she have

1201
00:30:20,917 --> 00:30:22,397
insurance? Is she gonna be able to pay for

1202
00:30:22,397 --> 00:30:23,237
it?

1203
00:30:23,237 --> 00:30:24,748
Um.

1204
00:30:24,748 --> 00:30:26,227
And she said, well, my, my

1205
00:30:26,227 --> 00:30:27,667
mom's here with me. Um,

1206
00:30:27,667 --> 00:30:29,427
she can answer all those questions.

1207
00:30:29,427 --> 00:30:30,947
Generally speaking, the first thing they're gonna, you

1208
00:30:30,947 --> 00:30:32,477
need to have your mom step out. You're an

1209
00:30:32,477 --> 00:30:33,887
adult now, you know, these are

1210
00:30:33,887 --> 00:30:35,427
conversations that we need

1211
00:30:35,427 --> 00:30:35,827
to have with

1212
00:30:35,827 --> 00:30:38,137
you.

1213
00:30:38,137 --> 00:30:39,498
I, I don't know how

1214
00:30:39,498 --> 00:30:41,017
to, I don't know how to answer that. I don't

1215
00:30:41,017 --> 00:30:42,647
know what to do.

1216
00:30:42,647 --> 00:30:43,468
Tears, start

1217
00:30:43,468 --> 00:30:45,288
crying.

1218
00:30:45,288 --> 00:30:46,848
Well, hold

1219
00:30:46,848 --> 00:30:48,327
on a minute. let's get your mom. let's get a

1220
00:30:48,327 --> 00:30:49,818
HIPAA release. What's a HIPAA

1221
00:30:49,818 --> 00:30:51,408
release? Let's get this form

1222
00:30:51,408 --> 00:30:52,927
signed. Let's just get this form. So you need to

1223
00:30:52,927 --> 00:30:54,408
read through this form and if you

1224
00:30:54,408 --> 00:30:55,647
want your mom to be able to sit in on

1225
00:30:55,647 --> 00:30:57,248
this conversation and have this

1226
00:30:57,248 --> 00:30:58,688
discussion with you, uh,

1227
00:30:58,688 --> 00:31:00,128
and, and hear what I have to

1228
00:31:00,128 --> 00:31:01,487
say, uh, as your

1229
00:31:01,487 --> 00:31:02,998
medical provider, uh, you're gonna

1230
00:31:02,998 --> 00:31:05,008
have to fill out this form first.

1231
00:31:05,008 --> 00:31:06,568
So 30 minutes later,

1232
00:31:06,568 --> 00:31:07,927
however long it is,

1233
00:31:07,927 --> 00:31:10,218
um.

1234
00:31:10,218 --> 00:31:11,658
The HIPAA form gets filled out and

1235
00:31:11,658 --> 00:31:13,647
we start over again.

1236
00:31:13,647 --> 00:31:15,207
This would provide a framework

1237
00:31:15,207 --> 00:31:16,607
just in that limited

1238
00:31:16,607 --> 00:31:18,248
example, which is an

1239
00:31:18,248 --> 00:31:19,647
example from my life with my

1240
00:31:19,647 --> 00:31:21,197
daughter. In that

1241
00:31:21,197 --> 00:31:22,917
limited example,

1242
00:31:22,917 --> 00:31:24,517
if we had a statutory

1243
00:31:24,517 --> 00:31:26,068
framework for supported

1244
00:31:26,068 --> 00:31:27,588
decision making, which is already

1245
00:31:27,588 --> 00:31:29,227
recognized as an option

1246
00:31:29,227 --> 00:31:30,758
of a least restrictive alternative

1247
00:31:30,758 --> 00:31:32,277
for decision making in the state of

1248
00:31:32,277 --> 00:31:33,667
Oklahoma.

1249
00:31:33,667 --> 00:31:35,396
That could have been avoided

1250
00:31:35,396 --> 00:31:37,026
because just like a guardianship

1251
00:31:37,026 --> 00:31:38,436
paperwork, just like a power of attorney

1252
00:31:38,436 --> 00:31:40,117
paperwork, you present that

1253
00:31:40,117 --> 00:31:41,477
signed form and say,

1254
00:31:41,477 --> 00:31:42,836
hey, here's my

1255
00:31:42,836 --> 00:31:44,357
mom's my supporter, she helps

1256
00:31:44,357 --> 00:31:45,917
me with my medical decisions,

1257
00:31:45,917 --> 00:31:47,357
put this on file in my patient

1258
00:31:47,357 --> 00:31:48,756
file and then when you switch

1259
00:31:48,756 --> 00:31:50,076
doctors or you get referred to a

1260
00:31:50,076 --> 00:31:51,287
specialist.

1261
00:31:51,287 --> 00:31:52,847
Or you have to go

1262
00:31:52,847 --> 00:31:54,368
to another doctor, the

1263
00:31:54,368 --> 00:31:55,878
type of doctor you've never been to

1264
00:31:55,878 --> 00:31:57,487
before, um,

1265
00:31:57,487 --> 00:31:58,927
that's on file. that's in

1266
00:31:58,927 --> 00:32:00,328
there. You don't have to have that discussion

1267
00:32:00,328 --> 00:32:01,727
every time. You get over the

1268
00:32:01,727 --> 00:32:03,407
hump of, in this

1269
00:32:03,407 --> 00:32:05,167
case, the anxiety of

1270
00:32:05,167 --> 00:32:06,758
not being able to have that

1271
00:32:06,758 --> 00:32:08,467
conversation with someone and therefore

1272
00:32:08,467 --> 00:32:09,837
blocking effectively

1273
00:32:09,837 --> 00:32:11,248
your your ability

1274
00:32:11,248 --> 00:32:12,977
to receive that medical care

1275
00:32:12,977 --> 00:32:14,368
or that medical information or

1276
00:32:14,368 --> 00:32:16,018
advice.

1277
00:32:16,018 --> 00:32:17,547
Um, and

1278
00:32:17,547 --> 00:32:19,097
again, but why would a third party rely

1279
00:32:19,097 --> 00:32:20,547
on this if there's nothing

1280
00:32:20,547 --> 00:32:22,107
in the statutes to tell them what it

1281
00:32:22,107 --> 00:32:23,748
is and what their

1282
00:32:23,748 --> 00:32:25,268
responsibilities and what their

1283
00:32:25,268 --> 00:32:26,667
protections are?

1284
00:32:26,667 --> 00:32:28,027
Again, a supported decision

1285
00:32:28,027 --> 00:32:29,068
making, um,

1286
00:32:29,068 --> 00:32:30,708
statute, um,

1287
00:32:30,708 --> 00:32:32,188
and, and the definitional

1288
00:32:32,188 --> 00:32:34,068
section and the implementation

1289
00:32:34,068 --> 00:32:35,958
sections of that statute

1290
00:32:35,958 --> 00:32:37,068
could put

1291
00:32:37,068 --> 00:32:38,748
in, uh, the

1292
00:32:38,748 --> 00:32:40,268
information and the reliance,

1293
00:32:40,268 --> 00:32:41,467
um,

1294
00:32:41,467 --> 00:32:42,948
uh. And

1295
00:32:42,948 --> 00:32:44,638
and liability waivers

1296
00:32:44,638 --> 00:32:46,448
that a third party would have

1297
00:32:46,448 --> 00:32:48,118
when relying upon such an arrangement

1298
00:32:48,118 --> 00:32:49,438
or such an agreement when

1299
00:32:49,438 --> 00:32:50,878
presented with one that,

1300
00:32:50,878 --> 00:32:52,318
uh, again,

1301
00:32:52,318 --> 00:32:53,758
um, substantially

1302
00:32:53,758 --> 00:32:55,837
conforms to

1303
00:32:55,837 --> 00:32:57,357
the model form

1304
00:32:57,357 --> 00:32:58,558
um that could be proposed in a

1305
00:32:58,558 --> 00:32:59,958
statute. So

1306
00:32:59,958 --> 00:33:01,477
what standards protect that third party

1307
00:33:01,477 --> 00:33:03,078
and why can they rely on it again

1308
00:33:03,078 --> 00:33:04,638
that can be easily defined in statute

1309
00:33:04,638 --> 00:33:05,677
as we've done in many other

1310
00:33:05,677 --> 00:33:06,818
statutes.

1311
00:33:06,818 --> 00:33:08,508
Um, and

1312
00:33:08,508 --> 00:33:10,448
then what controls the revocation,

1313
00:33:10,448 --> 00:33:11,837
conflicts of interest, undue

1314
00:33:11,837 --> 00:33:13,378
influence. Again, these are all things

1315
00:33:13,378 --> 00:33:14,657
that could be addressed within the

1316
00:33:14,657 --> 00:33:16,177
statutory framework. So

1317
00:33:16,177 --> 00:33:17,657
there's no question about it.

1318
00:33:17,657 --> 00:33:19,217
so that it's not,

1319
00:33:19,217 --> 00:33:21,398
um.

1320
00:33:21,398 --> 00:33:22,828
it's not

1321
00:33:22,828 --> 00:33:24,268
a delivery, it's not a

1322
00:33:24,268 --> 00:33:25,547
promise without delivery, I

1323
00:33:25,547 --> 00:33:26,987
guess it's kind of how

1324
00:33:26,987 --> 00:33:28,347
it, how it sits

1325
00:33:28,347 --> 00:33:29,907
now. It's something that exists

1326
00:33:29,907 --> 00:33:31,518
it's something that an individual

1327
00:33:31,518 --> 00:33:33,328
with disabilities

1328
00:33:33,328 --> 00:33:34,628
could access if they wanted

1329
00:33:34,628 --> 00:33:36,148
to, but there's really no

1330
00:33:36,148 --> 00:33:37,628
way to access

1331
00:33:37,628 --> 00:33:39,268
that out of their toolbox,

1332
00:33:39,268 --> 00:33:40,787
um, because

1333
00:33:40,787 --> 00:33:42,467
there's no instructions with it.

1334
00:33:42,467 --> 00:33:43,948
Um, you got a screwdriver

1335
00:33:43,948 --> 00:33:45,587
and you have a power drill.

1336
00:33:45,587 --> 00:33:47,068
Both of those are in your toolbox, but

1337
00:33:47,068 --> 00:33:48,628
unfortunately if you want to

1338
00:33:48,628 --> 00:33:50,458
use the power drill and not

1339
00:33:50,458 --> 00:33:52,177
You know, wear your arm out.

1340
00:33:52,177 --> 00:33:53,657
it's locked at the bottom

1341
00:33:53,657 --> 00:33:55,097
of the box, and I don't know where the

1342
00:33:55,097 --> 00:33:56,537
key is, but you

1343
00:33:56,537 --> 00:33:58,097
gotta figure it out. You can

1344
00:33:58,097 --> 00:33:59,297
you can use it, you can have

1345
00:33:59,297 --> 00:34:00,758
it.

1346
00:34:00,758 --> 00:34:02,217
I don't know what to tell you about how

1347
00:34:02,217 --> 00:34:03,558
you use it. We don't have the

1348
00:34:03,558 --> 00:34:04,917
instructions. we don't have the

1349
00:34:04,917 --> 00:34:06,357
battery pack, um,

1350
00:34:06,357 --> 00:34:07,917
and so that's that's kind of

1351
00:34:07,917 --> 00:34:09,297
where we sit right now

1352
00:34:09,297 --> 00:34:11,037
with regard to,

1353
00:34:11,037 --> 00:34:12,558
um, supported

1354
00:34:12,558 --> 00:34:13,797
decision making and and

1355
00:34:13,797 --> 00:34:15,118
individuals with

1356
00:34:15,118 --> 00:34:16,618
disabilities um

1357
00:34:16,618 --> 00:34:18,198
ability to use that,

1358
00:34:18,198 --> 00:34:19,677
um, uh that tool

1359
00:34:19,677 --> 00:34:20,998
in their toolbox to help

1360
00:34:20,998 --> 00:34:22,438
to have decisions made and

1361
00:34:22,438 --> 00:34:24,578
help those decisions made.

1362
00:34:24,578 --> 00:34:25,987
And so,

1363
00:34:25,987 --> 00:34:28,027
lastly we turn to

1364
00:34:28,027 --> 00:34:29,948
House Bill 3906,

1365
00:34:29,948 --> 00:34:31,188
um, just as a reference

1366
00:34:31,188 --> 00:34:32,708
point. all of the things

1367
00:34:32,708 --> 00:34:34,346
that I've at least based upon

1368
00:34:34,346 --> 00:34:35,767
my review, uh, uh

1369
00:34:35,767 --> 00:34:37,227
of the proposed bill,

1370
00:34:37,227 --> 00:34:38,827
uh, which did not become law

1371
00:34:38,827 --> 00:34:39,867
last session,

1372
00:34:39,867 --> 00:34:41,796
um.

1373
00:34:41,796 --> 00:34:44,086
All of those

1374
00:34:44,086 --> 00:34:45,526
Guardrails and definitions

1375
00:34:45,526 --> 00:34:47,057
and reliance.

1376
00:34:47,057 --> 00:34:48,606
Um,

1377
00:34:48,606 --> 00:34:49,807
The language to support

1378
00:34:49,807 --> 00:34:51,247
that all can be

1379
00:34:51,247 --> 00:34:52,766
found in some form

1380
00:34:52,766 --> 00:34:54,526
or fashion in that bill.

1381
00:34:54,526 --> 00:34:55,886
Now that's not to say that it

1382
00:34:55,886 --> 00:34:57,407
might need some amendment,

1383
00:34:57,407 --> 00:34:58,647
it might need some tinkering

1384
00:34:58,647 --> 00:35:00,737
with, but

1385
00:35:00,737 --> 00:35:02,257
From where we are now with just

1386
00:35:02,257 --> 00:35:03,446
referencing it as an

1387
00:35:03,446 --> 00:35:04,897
option to

1388
00:35:04,897 --> 00:35:06,216
looking at House Bill

1389
00:35:06,216 --> 00:35:07,856
3906,

1390
00:35:07,856 --> 00:35:09,307
um.

1391
00:35:09,307 --> 00:35:10,626
As a reference point for a

1392
00:35:10,626 --> 00:35:11,906
framework for what

1393
00:35:11,906 --> 00:35:13,426
the supported decision making

1394
00:35:13,426 --> 00:35:14,856
is, who can rely

1395
00:35:14,856 --> 00:35:16,187
on it, who can enter into

1396
00:35:16,187 --> 00:35:17,746
it, um,

1397
00:35:17,746 --> 00:35:19,426
what the, um,

1398
00:35:19,426 --> 00:35:20,946
protections are for,

1399
00:35:20,946 --> 00:35:22,557
um, issues like undue

1400
00:35:22,557 --> 00:35:23,946
influence of a supporter

1401
00:35:23,946 --> 00:35:25,426
under that, all of

1402
00:35:25,426 --> 00:35:26,827
those things can be found in

1403
00:35:26,827 --> 00:35:28,187
there and in fact, as I

1404
00:35:28,187 --> 00:35:29,707
recall and Representative Heffner

1405
00:35:29,707 --> 00:35:31,187
can correct me if I'm wrong, I

1406
00:35:31,187 --> 00:35:32,786
think I have a copy of it in here, but

1407
00:35:32,786 --> 00:35:33,987
there's also a statutory

1408
00:35:33,987 --> 00:35:35,266
framework, uh, a

1409
00:35:35,266 --> 00:35:36,906
proposed. Um,

1410
00:35:36,906 --> 00:35:38,567
form which could be used

1411
00:35:38,567 --> 00:35:40,826
for

1412
00:35:40,826 --> 00:35:42,186
an individual to

1413
00:35:42,186 --> 00:35:43,726
enter into a supported decision

1414
00:35:43,726 --> 00:35:45,307
making arrangement uh

1415
00:35:45,307 --> 00:35:46,467
with check

1416
00:35:46,467 --> 00:35:47,906
boxes and lines for

1417
00:35:47,906 --> 00:35:49,656
them to put what types of

1418
00:35:49,656 --> 00:35:51,016
decisions do I want the

1419
00:35:51,016 --> 00:35:52,747
supporter to assist me with

1420
00:35:52,747 --> 00:35:54,787
and uh

1421
00:35:54,787 --> 00:35:56,576
when.

1422
00:35:56,576 --> 00:35:57,976
When the supporters

1423
00:35:57,976 --> 00:35:59,296
assistance will be needed and

1424
00:35:59,296 --> 00:36:00,876
what information they're gonna have access

1425
00:36:00,876 --> 00:36:01,656
to.

1426
00:36:01,656 --> 00:36:03,226
Um.

1427
00:36:03,226 --> 00:36:04,696
So

1428
00:36:04,696 --> 00:36:06,137
The question that we're left with last

1429
00:36:06,137 --> 00:36:07,737
slide. the question that we're left

1430
00:36:07,737 --> 00:36:08,156
with

1431
00:36:08,156 --> 00:36:12,137
is

1432
00:36:12,137 --> 00:36:13,417
Would a general

1433
00:36:13,417 --> 00:36:15,296
statutory framework

1434
00:36:15,296 --> 00:36:16,817
um make supported decision

1435
00:36:16,817 --> 00:36:18,137
making not only

1436
00:36:18,137 --> 00:36:19,207
easier to use and

1437
00:36:19,207 --> 00:36:20,336
recognize,

1438
00:36:20,336 --> 00:36:22,277
um,

1439
00:36:22,277 --> 00:36:23,726
With providing safeguards, but

1440
00:36:23,726 --> 00:36:25,167
would it actually open

1441
00:36:25,167 --> 00:36:26,847
that toolbox up for

1442
00:36:26,847 --> 00:36:28,247
individuals with disabilities in the

1443
00:36:28,247 --> 00:36:30,357
state that would like

1444
00:36:30,357 --> 00:36:31,717
To exercise that type

1445
00:36:31,717 --> 00:36:33,396
of freedom and

1446
00:36:33,396 --> 00:36:41,247
support.

1447
00:36:41,247 --> 00:36:42,577
>> Thank you, thank you so much for your

1448
00:36:42,577 --> 00:36:43,536
presentation.

1449
00:36:43,536 --> 00:36:45,316
Um,

1450
00:36:45,316 --> 00:36:46,607
If there are any

1451
00:36:46,607 --> 00:36:50,116
questions.

1452
00:36:50,116 --> 00:36:51,667
>> Yeah, I appreciate you being here and

1453
00:36:51,667 --> 00:36:53,196
you're obviously very knowledgeable

1454
00:36:53,196 --> 00:36:54,596
within this area. Um,

1455
00:36:54,596 --> 00:36:56,036
and I think you

1456
00:36:56,036 --> 00:36:57,196
explained well the difference

1457
00:36:57,196 --> 00:36:58,986
between a supported

1458
00:36:58,986 --> 00:37:00,396
decision-making document and

1459
00:37:00,396 --> 00:37:01,437
that, that framework and the

1460
00:37:01,437 --> 00:37:02,877
guardianship. I

1461
00:37:02,877 --> 00:37:04,396
guess my question would be,

1462
00:37:04,396 --> 00:37:05,756
can you explain more to me the

1463
00:37:05,756 --> 00:37:07,196
difference between that

1464
00:37:07,196 --> 00:37:09,157
and just informal

1465
00:37:09,157 --> 00:37:11,196
help? Um,

1466
00:37:11,196 --> 00:37:12,836
particularly with regards

1467
00:37:12,836 --> 00:37:15,167
to, um,

1468
00:37:15,167 --> 00:37:16,687
the third party,

1469
00:37:16,687 --> 00:37:18,047
uh, what would be their duty

1470
00:37:18,047 --> 00:37:19,286
to the

1471
00:37:19,286 --> 00:37:20,607
individual and the decision

1472
00:37:20,607 --> 00:37:22,127
maker. Uh, I know it's

1473
00:37:22,127 --> 00:37:23,646
not a framework, so that's kind

1474
00:37:23,646 --> 00:37:25,167
of why we're here, but before

1475
00:37:25,167 --> 00:37:26,807
you put something in a framework, I think we

1476
00:37:26,807 --> 00:37:28,286
need to know the right path to

1477
00:37:28,286 --> 00:37:29,736
go down.

1478
00:37:29,736 --> 00:37:31,176
Um, and yeah, I

1479
00:37:31,176 --> 00:37:32,297
guess just start there.

1480
00:37:32,297 --> 00:37:33,777
Just the duty

1481
00:37:33,777 --> 00:37:35,256
of the third party as well

1482
00:37:35,256 --> 00:37:36,777
as the duty of the supported decision

1483
00:37:36,777 --> 00:37:38,577
maker to that

1484
00:37:38,577 --> 00:37:40,297
person who needs it. >> OK.

1485
00:37:40,297 --> 00:37:41,057
So, uh,

1486
00:37:41,057 --> 00:37:42,846
currently,

1487
00:37:42,846 --> 00:37:44,676
Broadly speaking, the

1488
00:37:44,676 --> 00:37:46,206
third party in whatever context

1489
00:37:46,206 --> 00:37:47,726
you might be referencing

1490
00:37:47,726 --> 00:37:49,527
has no duty

1491
00:37:49,527 --> 00:37:51,667
to rely on.

1492
00:37:51,667 --> 00:37:53,426
A supported decision maker.

1493
00:37:53,426 --> 00:37:54,946
If I walked in and said, hey, my

1494
00:37:54,946 --> 00:37:56,547
dad's with me. I've chosen

1495
00:37:56,547 --> 00:37:57,926
him as my supported decision

1496
00:37:57,926 --> 00:37:59,146
maker, um,

1497
00:37:59,146 --> 00:38:00,676
I'm getting ready to decide

1498
00:38:00,676 --> 00:38:02,187
whether or not I need you to give me

1499
00:38:02,187 --> 00:38:03,506
some more information about my

1500
00:38:03,506 --> 00:38:04,747
diagnosis of prostate

1501
00:38:04,747 --> 00:38:06,267
cancer. I need

1502
00:38:06,267 --> 00:38:07,627
a little bit more information

1503
00:38:07,627 --> 00:38:09,187
about um what my

1504
00:38:09,187 --> 00:38:10,706
options are and then ultimately he's gonna

1505
00:38:10,706 --> 00:38:12,146
help me decide, you know, what

1506
00:38:12,146 --> 00:38:13,917
I do.

1507
00:38:13,917 --> 00:38:15,476
Depending on the medical provider that

1508
00:38:15,476 --> 00:38:16,877
you go to,

1509
00:38:16,877 --> 00:38:18,596
uh,

1510
00:38:18,596 --> 00:38:20,036
They have well it's not

1511
00:38:20,036 --> 00:38:21,557
depending no medical

1512
00:38:21,557 --> 00:38:23,346
provider has a duty to

1513
00:38:23,346 --> 00:38:24,836
um or requirement to

1514
00:38:24,836 --> 00:38:26,316
allow someone else to

1515
00:38:26,316 --> 00:38:27,877
speak with an adult

1516
00:38:27,877 --> 00:38:29,476
and have a supporter there with

1517
00:38:29,476 --> 00:38:30,836
them about

1518
00:38:30,836 --> 00:38:31,997
their personal

1519
00:38:31,997 --> 00:38:33,596
healthcare, um,

1520
00:38:33,596 --> 00:38:34,997
depending on which provider you go

1521
00:38:34,997 --> 00:38:36,517
to and I can only again speak from

1522
00:38:36,517 --> 00:38:37,486
personal examples

1523
00:38:37,486 --> 00:38:38,917
sometimes you know if

1524
00:38:38,917 --> 00:38:40,517
it's your primary care physician

1525
00:38:40,517 --> 00:38:41,506
that you've known for 50

1526
00:38:41,506 --> 00:38:42,976
years. They're

1527
00:38:42,976 --> 00:38:44,467
probably gonna let you bring in whoever you

1528
00:38:44,467 --> 00:38:46,057
want, potentially they're not under

1529
00:38:46,057 --> 00:38:47,377
any obligation to, that's

1530
00:38:47,377 --> 00:38:48,766
just they've come to know your

1531
00:38:48,766 --> 00:38:50,336
family. but if you're

1532
00:38:50,336 --> 00:38:51,777
switching insurance companies,

1533
00:38:51,777 --> 00:38:53,336
you've got a new provider because you're out

1534
00:38:53,336 --> 00:38:54,896
of network now or something

1535
00:38:54,896 --> 00:38:56,416
and you have to go to a new primary

1536
00:38:56,416 --> 00:38:57,977
care provider or a new specialist

1537
00:38:57,977 --> 00:38:59,497
that you've never been to because of a

1538
00:38:59,497 --> 00:39:01,257
new diagnosis like an oncology

1539
00:39:01,257 --> 00:39:02,817
or a cancer diagnosis,

1540
00:39:02,817 --> 00:39:04,136
um, there's no

1541
00:39:04,136 --> 00:39:05,796
duty for them to

1542
00:39:05,796 --> 00:39:07,336
recognize that you want support

1543
00:39:07,336 --> 00:39:09,016
from someone. there's no duty

1544
00:39:09,016 --> 00:39:09,757
for them to

1545
00:39:09,757 --> 00:39:11,277
recognize

1546
00:39:11,277 --> 00:39:12,822
that. You

1547
00:39:12,822 --> 00:39:14,421
may not understand all the

1548
00:39:14,421 --> 00:39:16,062
information that's being provided to you,

1549
00:39:16,062 --> 00:39:17,572
which if you think about it, could

1550
00:39:17,572 --> 00:39:19,141
have all sorts of adverse outcomes

1551
00:39:19,141 --> 00:39:20,581
too. Not only potentially

1552
00:39:20,581 --> 00:39:22,062
could they prevent you from having

1553
00:39:22,062 --> 00:39:23,581
someone in the room with you, but

1554
00:39:23,581 --> 00:39:25,222
they could also decline

1555
00:39:25,222 --> 00:39:26,782
to provide you medical care based on

1556
00:39:26,782 --> 00:39:28,261
the fact that they don't believe you

1557
00:39:28,261 --> 00:39:29,836
understand. Um,

1558
00:39:29,836 --> 00:39:31,347
the, the information they're

1559
00:39:31,347 --> 00:39:32,796
being provided and the gravity of

1560
00:39:32,796 --> 00:39:34,467
the decisions that are before you

1561
00:39:34,467 --> 00:39:35,967
and they could tell you, I'm sorry, I can't treat

1562
00:39:35,967 --> 00:39:37,516
you. I need you, you know, we're gonna refer

1563
00:39:37,516 --> 00:39:39,007
you to someone else, um,

1564
00:39:39,007 --> 00:39:40,546
which could prolong care, which

1565
00:39:40,546 --> 00:39:42,116
could, you know, I mean, could have all sorts of

1566
00:39:42,116 --> 00:39:43,146
outcomes, adverse or

1567
00:39:43,146 --> 00:39:44,657
otherwise with

1568
00:39:44,657 --> 00:39:46,557
regard to currently,

1569
00:39:46,557 --> 00:39:48,537
um, the duties or responsibilities

1570
00:39:48,537 --> 00:39:50,076
of a supporter, which

1571
00:39:50,076 --> 00:39:51,557
I think was the second part of your question if I

1572
00:39:51,557 --> 00:39:53,136
have it right.

1573
00:39:53,136 --> 00:39:54,977
Currently under the statute

1574
00:39:54,977 --> 00:39:56,486
there there's no framework for

1575
00:39:56,486 --> 00:39:58,287
that either. there's no, there's no,

1576
00:39:58,287 --> 00:39:59,616
there's no guidance on what that would

1577
00:39:59,616 --> 00:40:01,136
be. So again in that same

1578
00:40:01,136 --> 00:40:02,736
scenario, if I said, Dad,

1579
00:40:02,736 --> 00:40:04,097
hey, I want you to be my

1580
00:40:04,097 --> 00:40:05,676
supporter, um, I've got this

1581
00:40:05,676 --> 00:40:07,136
really scary diagnosis. I need to

1582
00:40:07,136 --> 00:40:08,616
go in and talk to my doctor. it's a new

1583
00:40:08,616 --> 00:40:10,016
oncologist, I've never been

1584
00:40:10,016 --> 00:40:11,497
there. took me 6 months to get

1585
00:40:11,497 --> 00:40:12,937
in, um,

1586
00:40:12,937 --> 00:40:14,336
and I, I need you to go with

1587
00:40:14,336 --> 00:40:15,537
me. Um,

1588
00:40:15,537 --> 00:40:17,486
if

1589
00:40:17,486 --> 00:40:18,796
We went into that

1590
00:40:18,796 --> 00:40:20,486
situation. There's nothing

1591
00:40:20,486 --> 00:40:21,916
to prevent my dad from taking

1592
00:40:21,916 --> 00:40:23,326
over the conversation if

1593
00:40:23,326 --> 00:40:24,847
the provider allowed him in the

1594
00:40:24,847 --> 00:40:26,727
room, um.

1595
00:40:26,727 --> 00:40:28,497
And uh

1596
00:40:28,497 --> 00:40:30,257
whether it appeared to be or

1597
00:40:30,257 --> 00:40:31,937
it was subtly pressure

1598
00:40:31,937 --> 00:40:33,456
me into making a decision one way or

1599
00:40:33,456 --> 00:40:35,176
the other, there's no protection

1600
00:40:35,176 --> 00:40:36,416
for the for me as the

1601
00:40:36,416 --> 00:40:37,616
individual on that end

1602
00:40:37,616 --> 00:40:39,176
either again because

1603
00:40:39,176 --> 00:40:40,896
there's just a total lack of

1604
00:40:40,896 --> 00:40:42,537
of framework and that's

1605
00:40:42,537 --> 00:40:44,057
again sorry but

1606
00:40:44,057 --> 00:40:45,456
that's arguendo

1607
00:40:45,456 --> 00:40:46,977
if the providers like oh

1608
00:40:46,977 --> 00:40:48,697
a supported decision making arrangement.

1609
00:40:48,697 --> 00:40:50,217
I, I read that that there's

1610
00:40:50,217 --> 00:40:51,687
that's a thing in the statutes, right?

1611
00:40:51,687 --> 00:40:53,176
That's instead of a guardianship

1612
00:40:53,176 --> 00:40:54,486
you went with this. OK, well that's

1613
00:40:54,486 --> 00:40:56,277
fine.

1614
00:40:56,277 --> 00:40:57,567
Oh, well, your dad's your supporter.

1615
00:40:57,567 --> 00:40:59,166
Well, OK,

1616
00:40:59,166 --> 00:41:00,727
this guy's really not understanding what's

1617
00:41:00,727 --> 00:41:02,206
going on. I think he needs, we need a

1618
00:41:02,206 --> 00:41:03,646
really aggressive form of treatment

1619
00:41:03,646 --> 00:41:05,486
right now. Um,

1620
00:41:05,486 --> 00:41:06,947
as his supporter, you can just sign

1621
00:41:06,947 --> 00:41:08,366
off on that, right? Sure,

1622
00:41:08,366 --> 00:41:09,886
I guess, I don't know.

1623
00:41:09,886 --> 00:41:11,486
So my dad's, you know,

1624
00:41:11,486 --> 00:41:12,956
doomsday scenario, of course, but my

1625
00:41:12,956 --> 00:41:14,141
dad signed. up on this

1626
00:41:14,141 --> 00:41:15,502
treatment. maybe it's something I

1627
00:41:15,502 --> 00:41:16,701
didn't want. maybe it's something

1628
00:41:16,701 --> 00:41:18,252
that's let's just look at maybe

1629
00:41:18,252 --> 00:41:19,741
it's something I didn't want,

1630
00:41:19,741 --> 00:41:21,222
right? There's nothing to say

1631
00:41:21,222 --> 00:41:22,822
that that's not what a supported

1632
00:41:22,822 --> 00:41:24,261
decision maker is right now.

1633
00:41:24,261 --> 00:41:25,981
Uh, again, not only do we lack

1634
00:41:25,981 --> 00:41:27,382
the benefits of

1635
00:41:27,382 --> 00:41:28,822
describing what it is,

1636
00:41:28,822 --> 00:41:29,861
but we also don't

1637
00:41:29,861 --> 00:41:31,307
have.

1638
00:41:31,307 --> 00:41:32,907
The benefits of describing what it's

1639
00:41:32,907 --> 00:41:34,836
not and and what

1640
00:41:34,836 --> 00:41:36,546
defining the decisions ultimately

1641
00:41:36,546 --> 00:41:37,947
rest with the individual

1642
00:41:37,947 --> 00:41:39,467
that this individual because of

1643
00:41:39,467 --> 00:41:41,027
their disability and because of

1644
00:41:41,027 --> 00:41:42,586
how it affects them just

1645
00:41:42,586 --> 00:41:43,467
need that extra

1646
00:41:43,467 --> 00:41:44,896
support

1647
00:41:44,896 --> 00:41:46,426
above and beyond the level

1648
00:41:46,426 --> 00:41:47,706
of what someone

1649
00:41:47,706 --> 00:41:49,426
without that particular disability

1650
00:41:49,426 --> 00:41:50,866
or that particular type

1651
00:41:50,866 --> 00:41:52,067
of impediment because of their

1652
00:41:52,067 --> 00:41:52,826
disability

1653
00:41:52,826 --> 00:41:54,366
has.

1654
00:41:54,366 --> 00:41:55,967
I don't know if that answered your

1655
00:41:55,967 --> 00:41:57,706
question, but that's

1656
00:41:57,706 --> 00:41:59,067
>> No, that, no, absolutely

1657
00:41:59,067 --> 00:42:00,546
helpful. Um, I,

1658
00:42:00,546 --> 00:42:02,057
I guess my perspective,

1659
00:42:02,057 --> 00:42:03,666
uh, if, if we

1660
00:42:03,666 --> 00:42:05,187
establish a framework, I don't

1661
00:42:05,187 --> 00:42:06,807
want it to be convoluted

1662
00:42:06,807 --> 00:42:08,067
and, you know, this

1663
00:42:08,067 --> 00:42:09,666
is, uh,

1664
00:42:09,666 --> 00:42:10,986
although it's been in statute,

1665
00:42:10,986 --> 00:42:12,507
it's by name,

1666
00:42:12,507 --> 00:42:14,067
there, there's no such, I mean,

1667
00:42:14,067 --> 00:42:15,546
there's not a mechanism, which is the

1668
00:42:15,546 --> 00:42:17,106
reason why you guys are here having

1669
00:42:17,106 --> 00:42:18,787
the interim study. Uh,

1670
00:42:18,787 --> 00:42:20,426
but I, I envision a world

1671
00:42:20,426 --> 00:42:22,486
where whether it's a

1672
00:42:22,486 --> 00:42:23,977
Bank

1673
00:42:23,977 --> 00:42:25,896
Healthcare institution,

1674
00:42:25,896 --> 00:42:27,537
um, they have this document

1675
00:42:27,537 --> 00:42:28,986
that's a supporting decision-making

1676
00:42:28,986 --> 00:42:30,416
document says that

1677
00:42:30,416 --> 00:42:31,856
the patient or the customer of

1678
00:42:31,856 --> 00:42:33,057
the bank is entitled to

1679
00:42:33,057 --> 00:42:34,537
ask to have

1680
00:42:34,537 --> 00:42:35,896
a supporting decision-maker

1681
00:42:35,896 --> 00:42:36,977
present.

1682
00:42:36,977 --> 00:42:38,537
Um, one, I, I

1683
00:42:38,537 --> 00:42:40,037
think they're already without

1684
00:42:40,037 --> 00:42:41,287
it, they're entitled to

1685
00:42:41,287 --> 00:42:42,777
ask the institution,

1686
00:42:42,777 --> 00:42:44,217
hey, let's take a

1687
00:42:44,217 --> 00:42:45,777
second. I wanna

1688
00:42:45,777 --> 00:42:47,296
reach out to my mom, my dad,

1689
00:42:47,296 --> 00:42:48,826
someone to help me. And, and

1690
00:42:48,826 --> 00:42:50,016
I don't think the institution

1691
00:42:50,016 --> 00:42:51,636
can

1692
00:42:51,636 --> 00:42:53,277
They can't keep them there and prevent

1693
00:42:53,277 --> 00:42:54,916
them from doing that. Um,

1694
00:42:54,916 --> 00:42:56,477
but on the other hand,

1695
00:42:56,477 --> 00:42:57,836
if the individual who

1696
00:42:57,836 --> 00:42:59,317
has not

1697
00:42:59,317 --> 00:43:00,676
the decision-maker, the other

1698
00:43:00,676 --> 00:43:02,276
individual, if potentially

1699
00:43:02,276 --> 00:43:03,557
they don't want that person

1700
00:43:03,557 --> 00:43:05,036
present, do, are we gonna be

1701
00:43:05,036 --> 00:43:06,356
in a world where the

1702
00:43:06,356 --> 00:43:08,106
healthcare provider says, well,

1703
00:43:08,106 --> 00:43:09,676
hang on, I don't know what this

1704
00:43:09,676 --> 00:43:11,197
is. I think

1705
00:43:11,197 --> 00:43:12,757
we need to have this person present and it's

1706
00:43:12,757 --> 00:43:14,207
actually

1707
00:43:14,207 --> 00:43:15,726
contrary to what

1708
00:43:15,726 --> 00:43:17,286
the individual who we're trying to give as

1709
00:43:17,286 --> 00:43:18,846
much freedom as possible,

1710
00:43:18,846 --> 00:43:20,207
um, her, who

1711
00:43:20,207 --> 00:43:21,647
has the same amount of freedom

1712
00:43:21,647 --> 00:43:23,007
as any other

1713
00:43:23,007 --> 00:43:24,447
individual currently without

1714
00:43:24,447 --> 00:43:25,846
the decision maker,

1715
00:43:25,846 --> 00:43:27,286
uh, I don't wanna hamstring

1716
00:43:27,286 --> 00:43:28,776
their ability to,

1717
00:43:28,776 --> 00:43:30,327
uh, or just

1718
00:43:30,327 --> 00:43:31,887
have their agency.

1719
00:43:31,887 --> 00:43:33,207
Can you speak to that a little bit?

1720
00:43:33,207 --> 00:43:34,807
>> Yeah, very quickly, I think

1721
00:43:34,807 --> 00:43:36,247
absolutely, um, in

1722
00:43:36,247 --> 00:43:38,046
the, in the

1723
00:43:38,046 --> 00:43:39,356
first part of the

1724
00:43:39,356 --> 00:43:40,387
example,

1725
00:43:40,387 --> 00:43:42,286
um,

1726
00:43:42,286 --> 00:43:43,866
Hey, I need to step back. I need to talk

1727
00:43:43,866 --> 00:43:45,726
to someone.

1728
00:43:45,726 --> 00:43:47,247
I think that's reasonable. I think that's what

1729
00:43:47,247 --> 00:43:48,767
we look at as informal

1730
00:43:48,767 --> 00:43:50,247
decision making. But again, depending

1731
00:43:50,247 --> 00:43:51,846
on the context,

1732
00:43:51,846 --> 00:43:53,267
that also is an extra step

1733
00:43:53,267 --> 00:43:54,046
that that person with a

1734
00:43:54,046 --> 00:43:55,926
disability.

1735
00:43:55,926 --> 00:43:57,406
May not have to go through

1736
00:43:57,406 --> 00:43:58,767
if there was an appropriate

1737
00:43:58,767 --> 00:44:00,406
supported making a decision making

1738
00:44:00,406 --> 00:44:01,757
arrangement that was

1739
00:44:01,757 --> 00:44:02,926
recognized and was supported by

1740
00:44:02,926 --> 00:44:04,486
statute. Um, you may

1741
00:44:04,486 --> 00:44:06,046
not have to have that pause.

1742
00:44:06,046 --> 00:44:07,526
And again, sometimes that pause

1743
00:44:07,526 --> 00:44:09,046
could be, you know, 15 minutes to go

1744
00:44:09,046 --> 00:44:10,606
out and make a phone call. sometimes

1745
00:44:10,606 --> 00:44:12,166
that pause could be another 2 weeks till

1746
00:44:12,166 --> 00:44:13,647
you get back in with that same lender

1747
00:44:13,647 --> 00:44:15,166
or that same because of their appointment

1748
00:44:15,166 --> 00:44:16,716
schedule longer if we're

1749
00:44:16,716 --> 00:44:18,166
talking medical care oftentimes,

1750
00:44:18,166 --> 00:44:19,606
well, your next appointments, I don't have

1751
00:44:19,606 --> 00:44:20,926
time, you know, I have 30 minute

1752
00:44:20,926 --> 00:44:22,247
slot. this is my slot to see

1753
00:44:22,247 --> 00:44:24,046
you so.

1754
00:44:24,046 --> 00:44:25,526
In that part of the example,

1755
00:44:25,526 --> 00:44:27,007
I think, although,

1756
00:44:27,007 --> 00:44:28,526
yes, oftentimes that happens in

1757
00:44:28,526 --> 00:44:29,966
our everyday lives, right? We want to

1758
00:44:29,966 --> 00:44:30,767
step out and make a

1759
00:44:30,767 --> 00:44:33,017
decision.

1760
00:44:33,017 --> 00:44:34,546
But if you had a

1761
00:44:34,546 --> 00:44:35,947
mechanism whereby, especially

1762
00:44:35,947 --> 00:44:37,387
the individual with the disability where

1763
00:44:37,387 --> 00:44:38,817
that decision making is already

1764
00:44:38,817 --> 00:44:40,606
more difficult potentially

1765
00:44:40,606 --> 00:44:41,827
than those of us

1766
00:44:41,827 --> 00:44:43,226
that wouldn't need that type of

1767
00:44:43,226 --> 00:44:44,666
arrangement, it adds

1768
00:44:44,666 --> 00:44:46,187
on an extra layer. And again, if

1769
00:44:46,187 --> 00:44:47,916
you look in the context of people,

1770
00:44:47,916 --> 00:44:49,387
specifically mental health

1771
00:44:49,387 --> 00:44:50,906
issues, anxiety, you

1772
00:44:50,906 --> 00:44:52,546
know, those types of things,

1773
00:44:52,546 --> 00:44:54,387
um.

1774
00:44:54,387 --> 00:44:55,187
Even

1775
00:44:55,187 --> 00:44:56,707
that

1776
00:44:56,707 --> 00:44:58,276
Decision or ability to step

1777
00:44:58,276 --> 00:44:59,116
outside and calmly,

1778
00:44:59,116 --> 00:45:01,447
rationally.

1779
00:45:01,447 --> 00:45:02,606
Make that call, have that

1780
00:45:02,606 --> 00:45:04,837
discussion.

1781
00:45:04,837 --> 00:45:06,387
50% of the time I'm making

1782
00:45:06,387 --> 00:45:07,866
that up completely, but 50%

1783
00:45:07,866 --> 00:45:09,296
of the time that

1784
00:45:09,296 --> 00:45:11,106
individual is just gonna leave.

1785
00:45:11,106 --> 00:45:12,596
And who knows when the

1786
00:45:12,596 --> 00:45:14,236
next time they're going to feel comfortable enough

1787
00:45:14,236 --> 00:45:15,757
going into that situation and

1788
00:45:15,757 --> 00:45:17,276
trying to have that important decision made

1789
00:45:17,276 --> 00:45:18,796
or that important service provided

1790
00:45:18,796 --> 00:45:20,356
to them. The

1791
00:45:20,356 --> 00:45:21,916
second part of your question, could you

1792
00:45:21,916 --> 00:45:23,397
repeat it again? Sorry.

1793
00:45:23,397 --> 00:45:25,077
>> Yeah, uh, the individual doesn't

1794
00:45:25,077 --> 00:45:26,637
want to reach out to

1795
00:45:26,637 --> 00:45:28,197
their support decision maker. >> Absolutely. I think

1796
00:45:28,197 --> 00:45:29,796
that's very fair, and I think

1797
00:45:29,796 --> 00:45:31,156
as I recall, I think there

1798
00:45:31,156 --> 00:45:32,437
are within the

1799
00:45:32,437 --> 00:45:33,906
proposed bill that

1800
00:45:33,906 --> 00:45:35,366
was, um,

1801
00:45:35,366 --> 00:45:36,937
Uh, in last year's session, I

1802
00:45:36,937 --> 00:45:38,337
think there are some of those,

1803
00:45:38,337 --> 00:45:39,976
um, categories and guideline Representative

1804
00:45:39,976 --> 00:45:41,526
Hefner is shaking her head yes, she

1805
00:45:41,526 --> 00:45:43,007
could speak to it better than I. She was

1806
00:45:43,007 --> 00:45:44,017
the author, but,

1807
00:45:44,017 --> 00:45:45,616
um, but certainly

1808
00:45:45,616 --> 00:45:47,337
in looking at whether or not,

1809
00:45:47,337 --> 00:45:48,897
um, you as a legislative

1810
00:45:48,897 --> 00:45:50,327
body want to put that

1811
00:45:50,327 --> 00:45:51,932
framework into Oklahoma statute those.

1812
00:45:51,932 --> 00:45:53,411
the kinds of things that you could definitely

1813
00:45:53,411 --> 00:45:54,892
put in there and I think

1814
00:45:54,892 --> 00:45:56,481
that makes reasonable sense

1815
00:45:56,481 --> 00:45:57,692
um to

1816
00:45:57,692 --> 00:45:59,491
uh put in there

1817
00:45:59,491 --> 00:46:01,142
I can say that generally speaking

1818
00:46:01,142 --> 00:46:02,692
in in other states that have

1819
00:46:02,692 --> 00:46:04,186
statutorily supported

1820
00:46:04,186 --> 00:46:05,666
decision making and what I

1821
00:46:05,666 --> 00:46:07,386
recall from the proposed

1822
00:46:07,386 --> 00:46:08,865
bill that Representative Heffner put

1823
00:46:08,865 --> 00:46:10,466
forward um

1824
00:46:10,466 --> 00:46:12,166
there are there is clearly

1825
00:46:12,166 --> 00:46:13,546
um the ability of the

1826
00:46:13,546 --> 00:46:15,096
person not to use that support when

1827
00:46:15,096 --> 00:46:16,666
they don't want to and there shouldn't

1828
00:46:16,666 --> 00:46:17,526
be anything

1829
00:46:17,526 --> 00:46:19,176
um.

1830
00:46:19,176 --> 00:46:20,776
tied to

1831
00:46:20,776 --> 00:46:22,496
um

1832
00:46:22,496 --> 00:46:23,936
The form that they would submit

1833
00:46:23,936 --> 00:46:25,536
to, you know, the lender, the medical

1834
00:46:25,536 --> 00:46:26,975
provider or whatever, that would

1835
00:46:26,975 --> 00:46:28,616
say that would, would lead a

1836
00:46:28,616 --> 00:46:30,135
medical provider or whoever to say,

1837
00:46:30,135 --> 00:46:31,975
well, if your supporter is not here,

1838
00:46:31,975 --> 00:46:33,496
then you can't make that decision because

1839
00:46:33,496 --> 00:46:34,896
it clearly defines

1840
00:46:34,896 --> 00:46:36,376
they're only for support. The

1841
00:46:36,376 --> 00:46:38,176
decision is ultimately mine.

1842
00:46:38,176 --> 00:46:40,176
It opens the door

1843
00:46:40,176 --> 00:46:41,815
for them to for the supporter

1844
00:46:41,815 --> 00:46:43,415
to get access

1845
00:46:43,415 --> 00:46:44,856
where they otherwise would not

1846
00:46:44,856 --> 00:46:46,295
have to jump through hoops because

1847
00:46:46,295 --> 00:46:47,896
the person being supported

1848
00:46:47,896 --> 00:46:49,415
wants them to have that access and

1849
00:46:49,415 --> 00:46:50,775
that's what the document,

1850
00:46:50,775 --> 00:46:52,576
the agreement would provide

1851
00:46:52,576 --> 00:46:54,016
um so there would be nothing in the

1852
00:46:54,016 --> 00:46:55,176
document or agreement that

1853
00:46:55,176 --> 00:46:56,685
would There should not

1854
00:46:56,685 --> 00:46:57,926
be anything in the document or

1855
00:46:57,926 --> 00:46:58,926
agreement that

1856
00:46:58,926 --> 00:47:00,165
would

1857
00:47:00,165 --> 00:47:01,606
necessitate a

1858
00:47:01,606 --> 00:47:03,125
third party from saying hey you

1859
00:47:03,125 --> 00:47:04,726
can't make this decision without your

1860
00:47:04,726 --> 00:47:06,366
supporter. I'm not comfortable

1861
00:47:06,366 --> 00:47:08,246
and that also goes into

1862
00:47:08,246 --> 00:47:09,525
um within the statutory

1863
00:47:09,525 --> 00:47:11,085
framework making sure there is

1864
00:47:11,085 --> 00:47:12,326
built into it the

1865
00:47:12,326 --> 00:47:13,726
reliance

1866
00:47:13,726 --> 00:47:15,165
the um

1867
00:47:15,165 --> 00:47:16,765
uh the reliance part

1868
00:47:16,765 --> 00:47:18,176
for the third party

1869
00:47:18,176 --> 00:47:19,125
of

1870
00:47:19,125 --> 00:47:20,915
um.

1871
00:47:20,915 --> 00:47:22,165
I'm drawing a blank. I'm so

1872
00:47:22,165 --> 00:47:23,955
sorry, um,

1873
00:47:23,955 --> 00:47:25,445
for, um,

1874
00:47:25,445 --> 00:47:26,796
the waiver of liability,

1875
00:47:26,796 --> 00:47:28,315
basically within the statute to

1876
00:47:28,315 --> 00:47:29,796
say if you rely on

1877
00:47:29,796 --> 00:47:31,156
this, it's in this substantial

1878
00:47:31,156 --> 00:47:32,676
form, you as a third

1879
00:47:32,676 --> 00:47:34,076
party are not liable

1880
00:47:34,076 --> 00:47:35,345
for.

1881
00:47:35,345 --> 00:47:36,756
Anything that the

1882
00:47:36,756 --> 00:47:38,226
individual could say, well, you let this

1883
00:47:38,226 --> 00:47:39,426
person access my medical

1884
00:47:39,426 --> 00:47:40,945
records, you let them

1885
00:47:40,945 --> 00:47:42,426
know my Social Security number when I

1886
00:47:42,426 --> 00:47:44,106
was applying for this loan

1887
00:47:44,106 --> 00:47:45,546
that can be and I

1888
00:47:45,546 --> 00:47:47,195
believe in the proposed bill,

1889
00:47:47,195 --> 00:47:48,665
um, can be built into

1890
00:47:48,665 --> 00:47:50,186
it as well and I think

1891
00:47:50,186 --> 00:47:51,786
certainly those are the considerations

1892
00:47:51,786 --> 00:47:53,286
that this body should make when

1893
00:47:53,286 --> 00:47:54,265
looking at

1894
00:47:54,265 --> 00:47:56,356
um.

1895
00:47:56,356 --> 00:47:57,845
Uh, defining what that framework

1896
00:47:57,845 --> 00:47:59,406
is if, if you choose to move

1897
00:47:59,406 --> 00:48:01,415
forward with that.

1898
00:48:01,415 --> 00:48:02,936
>> One more thing and then dec

1899
00:48:02,936 --> 00:48:04,695
we'll get to you. Um,

1900
00:48:04,695 --> 00:48:06,216
I, I think throughout your

1901
00:48:06,216 --> 00:48:07,525
presentation, the thing that stood

1902
00:48:07,525 --> 00:48:09,055
out to me the most important and

1903
00:48:09,055 --> 00:48:10,615
probably necessary is access

1904
00:48:10,615 --> 00:48:12,415
to third-party protected

1905
00:48:12,415 --> 00:48:13,856
information. And as you mentioned, there's

1906
00:48:13,856 --> 00:48:15,335
a HIPAA release, so,

1907
00:48:15,335 --> 00:48:16,856
you know, that can be authorized

1908
00:48:16,856 --> 00:48:18,496
prior to going into that doctor's

1909
00:48:18,496 --> 00:48:20,096
office and carried out then just

1910
00:48:20,096 --> 00:48:21,635
like This

1911
00:48:21,635 --> 00:48:23,115
hypothetical document that we would

1912
00:48:23,115 --> 00:48:24,475
have, uh, but I,

1913
00:48:24,475 --> 00:48:26,035
I, I'm sure they

1914
00:48:26,035 --> 00:48:27,316
have them for banks too. I've just never

1915
00:48:27,316 --> 00:48:28,275
drafted one or seen

1916
00:48:28,275 --> 00:48:29,716
one. so, so

1917
00:48:29,716 --> 00:48:31,555
I think that's important,

1918
00:48:31,555 --> 00:48:33,316
but kind of

1919
00:48:33,316 --> 00:48:34,996
what I envision is

1920
00:48:34,996 --> 00:48:36,436
if the institution

1921
00:48:36,436 --> 00:48:37,915
has this thing and they can't force you

1922
00:48:37,915 --> 00:48:39,975
to talk to your decisionmaker

1923
00:48:39,975 --> 00:48:41,596
and with it, they can't

1924
00:48:41,596 --> 00:48:43,316
prevent you from

1925
00:48:43,316 --> 00:48:45,076
including your decision maker,

1926
00:48:45,076 --> 00:48:46,915
um.

1927
00:48:46,915 --> 00:48:48,326
I look at informal decision

1928
00:48:48,326 --> 00:48:49,835
making and I, I wonder, you

1929
00:48:49,835 --> 00:48:50,915
know, are they preventing

1930
00:48:50,915 --> 00:48:52,475
people, they

1931
00:48:52,475 --> 00:48:53,876
being the institutions, whether it's

1932
00:48:53,876 --> 00:48:55,725
healthcare, um,

1933
00:48:55,725 --> 00:48:57,195
or a bank, those are

1934
00:48:57,195 --> 00:48:58,966
just the ones that come to mind the easiest.

1935
00:48:58,966 --> 00:49:00,475
Are they preventing people from,

1936
00:49:00,475 --> 00:49:01,796
you know, reaching out to their friends and

1937
00:49:01,796 --> 00:49:03,246
family? is that

1938
00:49:03,246 --> 00:49:05,035
a problem that we're seeing

1939
00:49:05,035 --> 00:49:06,876
or we're gonna create a document

1940
00:49:06,876 --> 00:49:07,915
where it might

1941
00:49:07,915 --> 00:49:09,665
actually

1942
00:49:09,665 --> 00:49:11,186
Create more liability

1943
00:49:11,186 --> 00:49:12,496
issues for both the

1944
00:49:12,496 --> 00:49:14,135
institution and the decision maker

1945
00:49:14,135 --> 00:49:16,266
and might actually

1946
00:49:16,266 --> 00:49:17,656
I don't know, prevent the

1947
00:49:17,656 --> 00:49:19,346
individual from,

1948
00:49:19,346 --> 00:49:21,466
you know, fully

1949
00:49:21,466 --> 00:49:22,736
Experiencing that

1950
00:49:22,736 --> 00:49:24,546
interaction with that person

1951
00:49:24,546 --> 00:49:25,945
where if they don't want to,

1952
00:49:25,945 --> 00:49:27,546
they take in their informal

1953
00:49:27,546 --> 00:49:29,266
aid, whoever it is.

1954
00:49:29,266 --> 00:49:30,865
And, and with a

1955
00:49:30,865 --> 00:49:32,466
document, whether it's a HIPAA release,

1956
00:49:32,466 --> 00:49:34,066
which is a great example, or

1957
00:49:34,066 --> 00:49:35,945
another, another release,

1958
00:49:35,945 --> 00:49:37,986
um,

1959
00:49:37,986 --> 00:49:39,195
I, I just don't

1960
00:49:39,195 --> 00:49:40,846
wanna, and I say I,

1961
00:49:40,846 --> 00:49:42,266
I, I don't think the state wants

1962
00:49:42,266 --> 00:49:43,645
to, uh, we have to be

1963
00:49:43,645 --> 00:49:45,126
careful. We don't wanna create something

1964
00:49:45,126 --> 00:49:46,686
that can cause

1965
00:49:46,686 --> 00:49:48,566
more consternation

1966
00:49:48,566 --> 00:49:50,365
or create more liability

1967
00:49:50,365 --> 00:49:51,725
issues or prevent someone

1968
00:49:51,725 --> 00:49:53,246
from, um, you

1969
00:49:53,246 --> 00:49:54,766
know, going into the bank, getting a loan

1970
00:49:54,766 --> 00:49:56,005
cause there's some document and then

1971
00:49:56,005 --> 00:49:57,445
that loan officers like,

1972
00:49:57,445 --> 00:49:58,925
well, hang on, I don't know that we

1973
00:49:58,925 --> 00:50:00,486
can do this. You have one of these on

1974
00:50:00,486 --> 00:50:02,326
file. Um,

1975
00:50:02,326 --> 00:50:04,005
and I guess there could be statutory framework,

1976
00:50:04,005 --> 00:50:05,606
but I don't envision them preventing

1977
00:50:05,606 --> 00:50:07,066
them. Uh, reaching out

1978
00:50:07,066 --> 00:50:08,516
to their parent, uncle,

1979
00:50:08,516 --> 00:50:10,076
whoever it may be right

1980
00:50:10,076 --> 00:50:11,555
now. But the access to

1981
00:50:11,555 --> 00:50:12,966
the third-party protected

1982
00:50:12,966 --> 00:50:14,475
information, 100%, but that

1983
00:50:14,475 --> 00:50:15,835
could be solved with a

1984
00:50:15,835 --> 00:50:17,395
HIPAA release or some sort of banking

1985
00:50:17,395 --> 00:50:18,955
release. And I understand

1986
00:50:18,955 --> 00:50:20,566
a POA is probably not,

1987
00:50:20,566 --> 00:50:22,156
you don't want to go that far. We're trying to find

1988
00:50:22,156 --> 00:50:23,666
something right above

1989
00:50:23,666 --> 00:50:25,235
informal but below all this

1990
00:50:25,235 --> 00:50:26,795
other stuff. But we, I

1991
00:50:26,795 --> 00:50:28,115
think that it needs, there needs to

1992
00:50:28,115 --> 00:50:30,066
be an absolute

1993
00:50:30,066 --> 00:50:31,636
need for it before

1994
00:50:31,636 --> 00:50:33,055
we create a whole,

1995
00:50:33,055 --> 00:50:34,455
um,

1996
00:50:34,455 --> 00:50:35,966
It's not even close to a guardianship,

1997
00:50:35,966 --> 00:50:37,235
but sub guardianship

1998
00:50:37,235 --> 00:50:38,976
framework. Um,

1999
00:50:38,976 --> 00:50:40,615
so that would just be

2000
00:50:40,615 --> 00:50:41,416
my comment that I

2001
00:50:41,416 --> 00:50:48,686
have.

2002
00:50:48,686 --> 00:50:49,485
Representative

2003
00:50:49,485 --> 00:50:51,496
>> deck.

2004
00:50:51,496 --> 00:50:53,096
Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

2005
00:50:53,096 --> 00:50:54,496
Uh, appreciate all

2006
00:50:54,496 --> 00:50:55,976
the information and the examples that

2007
00:50:55,976 --> 00:50:58,205
you've given, um,

2008
00:50:58,205 --> 00:50:59,846
I did want,

2009
00:50:59,846 --> 00:51:01,205
and there probably already is

2010
00:51:01,205 --> 00:51:02,485
framework for this

2011
00:51:02,485 --> 00:51:03,825
around POA

2012
00:51:03,825 --> 00:51:05,566
and representative pay,

2013
00:51:05,566 --> 00:51:07,166
but I am curious

2014
00:51:07,166 --> 00:51:08,895
what type of liability

2015
00:51:08,895 --> 00:51:10,365
waiver or what

2016
00:51:10,365 --> 00:51:11,765
is the liability of

2017
00:51:11,765 --> 00:51:13,235
that supported

2018
00:51:13,235 --> 00:51:14,585
decision maker,

2019
00:51:14,585 --> 00:51:15,886
um, you know,

2020
00:51:15,886 --> 00:51:17,406
for, for a decision that

2021
00:51:17,406 --> 00:51:18,846
maybe doesn't end up going

2022
00:51:18,846 --> 00:51:20,246
the right way. Uh,

2023
00:51:20,246 --> 00:51:21,805
is, or are they, are they,

2024
00:51:21,805 --> 00:51:23,316
is that liability waived?

2025
00:51:23,316 --> 00:51:24,605
Is it,

2026
00:51:24,605 --> 00:51:26,166
um, is it,

2027
00:51:26,166 --> 00:51:27,406
is it subjugated?

2028
00:51:27,406 --> 00:51:29,295
Can, Uh,

2029
00:51:29,295 --> 00:51:30,895
is there already, uh, kind of

2030
00:51:30,895 --> 00:51:32,575
rules around that?

2031
00:51:32,575 --> 00:51:34,216
>> So there aren't any rules

2032
00:51:34,216 --> 00:51:35,656
around it within the

2033
00:51:35,656 --> 00:51:37,256
supported decision-making context.

2034
00:51:37,256 --> 00:51:38,615
Sorry, I'm not trying to be facetious,

2035
00:51:38,615 --> 00:51:40,096
but, um, which

2036
00:51:40,096 --> 00:51:41,496
is part of what

2037
00:51:41,496 --> 00:51:42,966
the educational component is

2038
00:51:42,966 --> 00:51:44,496
today in a supported

2039
00:51:44,496 --> 00:51:45,895
decision-making arrangement though, because

2040
00:51:45,895 --> 00:51:47,416
the decision ultimately is spelled

2041
00:51:47,416 --> 00:51:48,675
out. could be spelled out

2042
00:51:48,675 --> 00:51:50,115
both with the statutory

2043
00:51:50,115 --> 00:51:51,855
framework and within the confines

2044
00:51:51,855 --> 00:51:53,316
of a, a recognized

2045
00:51:53,316 --> 00:51:54,355
document.

2046
00:51:54,355 --> 00:51:56,075
Um, the,

2047
00:51:56,075 --> 00:51:57,775
um, all decision making

2048
00:51:57,775 --> 00:51:59,235
is clearly defined as resting

2049
00:51:59,235 --> 00:52:00,916
with the individual. Um,

2050
00:52:00,916 --> 00:52:01,955
and the individual is

2051
00:52:01,955 --> 00:52:03,865
also

2052
00:52:03,865 --> 00:52:05,496
Tasked with the responsibility

2053
00:52:05,496 --> 00:52:07,376
of choosing their supporter,

2054
00:52:07,376 --> 00:52:08,855
um, there are also

2055
00:52:08,855 --> 00:52:10,335
safeguards in place,

2056
00:52:10,335 --> 00:52:11,816
um, or could be safeguards put in

2057
00:52:11,816 --> 00:52:13,346
place and, and I believe were in

2058
00:52:13,346 --> 00:52:14,895
the proposed house bill,

2059
00:52:14,895 --> 00:52:16,455
um, with regard

2060
00:52:16,455 --> 00:52:17,895
to, um,

2061
00:52:17,895 --> 00:52:19,295
reporting, um, if it

2062
00:52:19,295 --> 00:52:20,895
looks like there's some sort of undue

2063
00:52:20,895 --> 00:52:22,335
influence, um,

2064
00:52:22,335 --> 00:52:24,015
by the supporter,

2065
00:52:24,015 --> 00:52:24,416
so

2066
00:52:24,416 --> 00:52:26,726
liability.

2067
00:52:26,726 --> 00:52:28,205
Waiver, I don't

2068
00:52:28,205 --> 00:52:29,686
know. I mean, it could be built in

2069
00:52:29,686 --> 00:52:31,175
the statute if it was something that

2070
00:52:31,175 --> 00:52:32,716
seemed necessary, but I think the

2071
00:52:32,716 --> 00:52:34,246
way that the framework could be laid

2072
00:52:34,246 --> 00:52:35,925
out because the

2073
00:52:35,925 --> 00:52:37,316
decision to appoint the person and pick the

2074
00:52:37,316 --> 00:52:38,855
person and because of the guardrails

2075
00:52:38,855 --> 00:52:40,265
for the potential

2076
00:52:40,265 --> 00:52:42,036
um reporting,

2077
00:52:42,036 --> 00:52:43,525
uh, I don't,

2078
00:52:43,525 --> 00:52:45,075
I, I don't see

2079
00:52:45,075 --> 00:52:46,525
the liability issue of

2080
00:52:46,525 --> 00:52:48,636
the supporter being.

2081
00:52:48,636 --> 00:52:49,855
A huge

2082
00:52:49,855 --> 00:52:51,346
problem >> I

2083
00:52:51,346 --> 00:52:52,865
mean, I, I think in some

2084
00:52:52,865 --> 00:52:54,386
regards, although if we're,

2085
00:52:54,386 --> 00:52:55,775
if we're designating it, that

2086
00:52:55,775 --> 00:52:57,305
changes this. In some regards, it kind

2087
00:52:57,305 --> 00:52:59,316
of falls under Good Samaritan,

2088
00:52:59,316 --> 00:53:00,946
uh, but if we're that, that,

2089
00:53:00,946 --> 00:53:02,666
but that seems more like an informal

2090
00:53:02,666 --> 00:53:03,855
support, right?

2091
00:53:03,855 --> 00:53:05,506
Um, if we're designating

2092
00:53:05,506 --> 00:53:07,066
this, it's, you know, I, I don't know

2093
00:53:07,066 --> 00:53:08,545
that Good Samaritan applies the

2094
00:53:08,545 --> 00:53:09,545
same way.

2095
00:53:09,545 --> 00:53:11,066
Um, so

2096
00:53:11,066 --> 00:53:12,386
anyway, is, are there

2097
00:53:12,386 --> 00:53:13,946
currently

2098
00:53:13,946 --> 00:53:14,985
Is there a liability

2099
00:53:14,985 --> 00:53:16,386
structure,

2100
00:53:16,386 --> 00:53:17,786
accountability and an oversight

2101
00:53:17,786 --> 00:53:19,335
structure around a power of

2102
00:53:19,335 --> 00:53:20,825
attorney? Cause I know we're kind

2103
00:53:20,825 --> 00:53:22,705
of modelling this as a

2104
00:53:22,705 --> 00:53:24,545
or and guardianship. How are,

2105
00:53:24,545 --> 00:53:26,596
how are we currently

2106
00:53:26,596 --> 00:53:28,115
Uh, monitoring those

2107
00:53:28,115 --> 00:53:29,596
parts and how

2108
00:53:29,596 --> 00:53:31,115
might that affect how we decide

2109
00:53:31,115 --> 00:53:32,536
to apply that going forward.

2110
00:53:32,536 --> 00:53:34,066
It's also been at least

2111
00:53:34,066 --> 00:53:35,675
6 months since I read that bill.

2112
00:53:35,675 --> 00:53:37,036
So,

2113
00:53:37,036 --> 00:53:38,555
>> so, uh, the, the short

2114
00:53:38,555 --> 00:53:40,136
version to answer your question is yes,

2115
00:53:40,136 --> 00:53:41,716
again, uh, uh, it's

2116
00:53:41,716 --> 00:53:43,126
certainly up for,

2117
00:53:43,126 --> 00:53:44,735
um, potential alteration

2118
00:53:44,735 --> 00:53:46,275
or amendment. It was kind

2119
00:53:46,275 --> 00:53:47,795
of an initial, I, I

2120
00:53:47,795 --> 00:53:49,196
don't want to call it initial. I think

2121
00:53:49,196 --> 00:53:50,675
Representative Hefner's been working on this

2122
00:53:50,675 --> 00:53:51,996
for some time, but it

2123
00:53:51,996 --> 00:53:53,626
was, uh.

2124
00:53:53,626 --> 00:53:54,906
A kind of

2125
00:53:54,906 --> 00:53:56,305
large first step

2126
00:53:56,305 --> 00:53:57,825
in providing framework

2127
00:53:57,825 --> 00:53:59,585
for um

2128
00:53:59,585 --> 00:54:01,265
supported decision making arrangements

2129
00:54:01,265 --> 00:54:01,906
to be placed in

2130
00:54:01,906 --> 00:54:03,656
statute.

2131
00:54:03,656 --> 00:54:05,136
Guardianships, so that's the easiest

2132
00:54:05,136 --> 00:54:06,656
one to describe

2133
00:54:06,656 --> 00:54:08,216
to answer your question. Yeah, there are a lot

2134
00:54:08,216 --> 00:54:09,735
of guardrails and guardianships because

2135
00:54:09,735 --> 00:54:11,096
ultimately the court has

2136
00:54:11,096 --> 00:54:12,455
responsibility for

2137
00:54:12,455 --> 00:54:14,136
deciding whether or not that individual

2138
00:54:14,136 --> 00:54:15,615
and the decisions made on their behalf

2139
00:54:15,615 --> 00:54:16,686
and any liability of the

2140
00:54:16,686 --> 00:54:18,096
guardian and

2141
00:54:18,096 --> 00:54:19,656
that that fiduciary trust

2142
00:54:19,656 --> 00:54:20,936
has been violated,

2143
00:54:20,936 --> 00:54:22,876
right? But

2144
00:54:22,876 --> 00:54:24,846
when you're appointed guardian,

2145
00:54:24,846 --> 00:54:26,295
um, one of the court

2146
00:54:26,295 --> 00:54:28,096
orders that comes along with that

2147
00:54:28,096 --> 00:54:29,735
says that you, um,

2148
00:54:29,735 --> 00:54:31,136
are tasked with, you are

2149
00:54:31,136 --> 00:54:33,026
legally tasked with under the statute.

2150
00:54:33,026 --> 00:54:34,545
Um, making decisions

2151
00:54:34,545 --> 00:54:36,256
that are always in consideration

2152
00:54:36,256 --> 00:54:38,055
of the best interests.

2153
00:54:38,055 --> 00:54:39,896
so it's a best interest consideration

2154
00:54:39,896 --> 00:54:41,256
of the individual.

2155
00:54:41,256 --> 00:54:43,126
Um, so guardianships

2156
00:54:43,126 --> 00:54:44,756
are are pretty insulated in that way.

2157
00:54:44,756 --> 00:54:46,336
I mean, I think they're protected. I think they're

2158
00:54:46,336 --> 00:54:47,865
recognized and,

2159
00:54:47,865 --> 00:54:49,336
uh, if there is some sort

2160
00:54:49,336 --> 00:54:50,615
of abuse or

2161
00:54:50,615 --> 00:54:52,095
fraud, uh, all

2162
00:54:52,095 --> 00:54:53,376
the time we have adult protective

2163
00:54:53,376 --> 00:54:54,975
services through DHS that gets

2164
00:54:54,975 --> 00:54:56,615
involved sometimes in abusive

2165
00:54:56,615 --> 00:54:57,215
or neglectful

2166
00:54:57,215 --> 00:54:59,215
guardianships

2167
00:54:59,215 --> 00:55:00,696
we have, you know, the courts,

2168
00:55:00,696 --> 00:55:01,896
the the. under

2169
00:55:01,896 --> 00:55:03,336
statute, the person who

2170
00:55:03,336 --> 00:55:04,936
is under guardianship has

2171
00:55:04,936 --> 00:55:06,615
the ability um to

2172
00:55:06,615 --> 00:55:08,215
go to court themselves to challenge

2173
00:55:08,215 --> 00:55:09,615
that to either have it

2174
00:55:09,615 --> 00:55:11,266
limited set aside

2175
00:55:11,266 --> 00:55:12,615
or to say that they're being

2176
00:55:12,615 --> 00:55:13,855
abused or neglected under the

2177
00:55:13,855 --> 00:55:15,425
guardianship very

2178
00:55:15,425 --> 00:55:16,996
common example is potential

2179
00:55:16,996 --> 00:55:18,415
financial abuse. My money is

2180
00:55:18,415 --> 00:55:19,896
not going to where it needs to

2181
00:55:19,896 --> 00:55:21,215
be. it's not paying for my

2182
00:55:21,215 --> 00:55:22,655
housing it's not, I don't know where it

2183
00:55:22,655 --> 00:55:24,136
is and I don't have any extra money at the

2184
00:55:24,136 --> 00:55:25,576
end of the month, you know,

2185
00:55:25,576 --> 00:55:27,136
um, and all of those things can be handled

2186
00:55:27,136 --> 00:55:28,576
by the court with regard

2187
00:55:28,576 --> 00:55:30,016
to power of attorney.

2188
00:55:30,016 --> 00:55:31,386
Um, it's a,

2189
00:55:31,386 --> 00:55:33,355
a little less.

2190
00:55:33,355 --> 00:55:34,756
Uh, defined, I

2191
00:55:34,756 --> 00:55:36,196
think under statute,

2192
00:55:36,196 --> 00:55:38,186
um, I think

2193
00:55:38,186 --> 00:55:39,595
Uh, medical providers

2194
00:55:39,595 --> 00:55:40,915
again being the most

2195
00:55:40,915 --> 00:55:41,996
common example,

2196
00:55:41,996 --> 00:55:44,126
uh.

2197
00:55:44,126 --> 00:55:45,295
Also financial

2198
00:55:45,295 --> 00:55:46,706
institutions.

2199
00:55:46,706 --> 00:55:48,235
We've had power of attorney on

2200
00:55:48,235 --> 00:55:49,516
the books forever,

2201
00:55:49,516 --> 00:55:51,035
um, so

2202
00:55:51,035 --> 00:55:52,876
when they have that

2203
00:55:52,876 --> 00:55:54,316
document in place or on file

2204
00:55:54,316 --> 00:55:55,795
or it's presented to them, they

2205
00:55:55,795 --> 00:55:57,355
know what it is, they understand it, and

2206
00:55:57,355 --> 00:55:58,526
generally speaking,

2207
00:55:58,526 --> 00:55:59,475
um,

2208
00:55:59,475 --> 00:56:01,076
they,

2209
00:56:01,076 --> 00:56:02,675
they know how to work within those,

2210
00:56:02,675 --> 00:56:04,155
uh, guidelines, right,

2211
00:56:04,155 --> 00:56:05,675
in those, those frames,

2212
00:56:05,675 --> 00:56:06,436
but,

2213
00:56:06,436 --> 00:56:08,526
um.

2214
00:56:08,526 --> 00:56:09,795
The liability under

2215
00:56:09,795 --> 00:56:10,725
a power of

2216
00:56:10,725 --> 00:56:13,586
attorney.

2217
00:56:13,586 --> 00:56:15,186
There, there's not much

2218
00:56:15,186 --> 00:56:16,506
statutory

2219
00:56:16,506 --> 00:56:17,626
definition of that as I

2220
00:56:17,626 --> 00:56:19,186
recall, um, but

2221
00:56:19,186 --> 00:56:20,785
I certainly, uh,

2222
00:56:20,785 --> 00:56:22,305
could be corrected on that. Uh,

2223
00:56:22,305 --> 00:56:23,746
I, I just, I just don't know off

2224
00:56:23,746 --> 00:56:25,186
the top of my head without looking at

2225
00:56:25,186 --> 00:56:26,785
it again, but I don't recall

2226
00:56:26,785 --> 00:56:28,225
that there's any really

2227
00:56:28,225 --> 00:56:29,626
defined, again, it's

2228
00:56:29,626 --> 00:56:31,225
always while acting as

2229
00:56:31,225 --> 00:56:32,746
power of attorney, I believe the statute

2230
00:56:32,746 --> 00:56:34,026
again makes that best interest

2231
00:56:34,026 --> 00:56:35,506
finding, you should be acting in the

2232
00:56:35,506 --> 00:56:37,186
best interest of. The difference

2233
00:56:37,186 --> 00:56:38,626
with supported decision making though

2234
00:56:38,626 --> 00:56:40,305
is that supporter

2235
00:56:40,305 --> 00:56:42,016
is not necessarily. acting

2236
00:56:42,016 --> 00:56:43,855
in the interest at all.

2237
00:56:43,855 --> 00:56:45,295
The dei the,

2238
00:56:45,295 --> 00:56:46,826
the supported person, the person

2239
00:56:46,826 --> 00:56:48,376
with the disability that has chosen

2240
00:56:48,376 --> 00:56:49,855
that form of support is

2241
00:56:49,855 --> 00:56:51,456
the decision maker and is acting

2242
00:56:51,456 --> 00:56:52,896
on their own behalf.

2243
00:56:52,896 --> 00:56:54,295
And so the supporter

2244
00:56:54,295 --> 00:56:55,975
really has supported decision making

2245
00:56:55,975 --> 00:56:57,725
in a lot of ways opens

2246
00:56:57,725 --> 00:56:59,376
the door for

2247
00:56:59,376 --> 00:57:00,896
that individual to choose what

2248
00:57:00,896 --> 00:57:02,415
type of support they want rather than

2249
00:57:02,415 --> 00:57:03,836
having a court decide it for

2250
00:57:03,836 --> 00:57:05,086
them or under a power of

2251
00:57:05,086 --> 00:57:06,566
attorney. Someone

2252
00:57:06,566 --> 00:57:08,055
else at some point saying, oh wait, now

2253
00:57:08,055 --> 00:57:09,415
you lack the capacity to do

2254
00:57:09,415 --> 00:57:10,816
this again absent the example

2255
00:57:10,816 --> 00:57:12,376
of I'm out I'm out of,

2256
00:57:12,376 --> 00:57:13,975
I'm overseas, I'm, I'm

2257
00:57:13,975 --> 00:57:15,715
not reachable because of my physical

2258
00:57:15,715 --> 00:57:16,975
location or whatever.

2259
00:57:16,975 --> 00:57:18,175
Um, and

2260
00:57:18,175 --> 00:57:19,655
so, uh, with

2261
00:57:19,655 --> 00:57:21,496
regard to that, um,

2262
00:57:21,496 --> 00:57:22,776
you know, and it's

2263
00:57:22,776 --> 00:57:23,936
sometimes it's

2264
00:57:23,936 --> 00:57:25,285
hard. Or more

2265
00:57:25,285 --> 00:57:26,855
difficult for me to answer those

2266
00:57:26,855 --> 00:57:28,405
types of questions because I

2267
00:57:28,405 --> 00:57:29,965
do come to it, I just be

2268
00:57:29,965 --> 00:57:31,686
honest, I come to it from such a disability

2269
00:57:31,686 --> 00:57:33,145
lens. Some of the

2270
00:57:33,145 --> 00:57:34,824
questions that are being asked,

2271
00:57:34,824 --> 00:57:36,384
um, seem foreign

2272
00:57:36,384 --> 00:57:37,945
to me because as a person not only

2273
00:57:37,945 --> 00:57:39,254
that supports two individuals with

2274
00:57:39,254 --> 00:57:41,075
disabilities and my own children,

2275
00:57:41,075 --> 00:57:42,544
um, but

2276
00:57:42,544 --> 00:57:44,205
that's my job, it's what I do

2277
00:57:44,205 --> 00:57:45,785
5 days a week, 7

2278
00:57:45,785 --> 00:57:47,105
days a week, all the

2279
00:57:47,105 --> 00:57:48,344
time. The

2280
00:57:48,344 --> 00:57:49,725
questions that are asked

2281
00:57:49,725 --> 00:57:51,305
of individuals with disabilities

2282
00:57:51,305 --> 00:57:52,894
about the choices they want to make and what

2283
00:57:52,894 --> 00:57:54,385
authority do I have and what kind of help can

2284
00:57:54,385 --> 00:57:55,945
I have, they just come from

2285
00:57:55,945 --> 00:57:57,535
a different. And I don't

2286
00:57:57,535 --> 00:57:58,975
mean to be disrespectful, but they come from a

2287
00:57:58,975 --> 00:58:00,504
different perspective. And

2288
00:58:00,504 --> 00:58:01,425
so

2289
00:58:01,425 --> 00:58:02,905
whereas

2290
00:58:02,905 --> 00:58:03,664
supported decision

2291
00:58:03,664 --> 00:58:05,265
making.

2292
00:58:05,265 --> 00:58:06,054
Certainly, like

2293
00:58:06,054 --> 00:58:07,495
any,

2294
00:58:07,495 --> 00:58:08,975
any legal arrangement that

2295
00:58:08,975 --> 00:58:10,495
we have in place, there

2296
00:58:10,495 --> 00:58:11,925
are concerns and cautions about

2297
00:58:11,925 --> 00:58:13,495
whether or not an individual

2298
00:58:13,495 --> 00:58:14,435
could be

2299
00:58:14,435 --> 00:58:15,854
um

2300
00:58:15,854 --> 00:58:17,525
taken advantage of under that

2301
00:58:17,525 --> 00:58:18,894
situation, um, whether or

2302
00:58:18,894 --> 00:58:20,414
not, whether and how a third

2303
00:58:20,414 --> 00:58:21,894
party relies on that,

2304
00:58:21,894 --> 00:58:23,394
um.

2305
00:58:23,394 --> 00:58:24,655
Those I think are things

2306
00:58:24,655 --> 00:58:26,104
that

2307
00:58:26,104 --> 00:58:27,545
Could be

2308
00:58:27,545 --> 00:58:29,025
discussed and talked about

2309
00:58:29,025 --> 00:58:30,304
and use the framework

2310
00:58:30,304 --> 00:58:31,824
um of the

2311
00:58:31,824 --> 00:58:33,064
previous house bill that was

2312
00:58:33,064 --> 00:58:34,744
presented.

2313
00:58:34,744 --> 00:58:35,695
To suss those issues

2314
00:58:35,695 --> 00:58:37,225
out because from

2315
00:58:37,225 --> 00:58:38,735
a disability lens, from a

2316
00:58:38,735 --> 00:58:40,384
disability standpoint, having

2317
00:58:40,384 --> 00:58:42,024
that tool in the toolkit

2318
00:58:42,024 --> 00:58:43,185
would be a huge

2319
00:58:43,185 --> 00:58:44,665
advantage. And like I said, I

2320
00:58:44,665 --> 00:58:46,104
know we have other speakers and I,

2321
00:58:46,104 --> 00:58:47,604
it's not really my point

2322
00:58:47,604 --> 00:58:49,265
to talk about my personal experience,

2323
00:58:49,265 --> 00:58:50,985
but

2324
00:58:50,985 --> 00:58:52,265
afterwards, if anyone's

2325
00:58:52,265 --> 00:58:53,744
interested, uh, or if we

2326
00:58:53,744 --> 00:58:55,244
have time at the end, I'd be happy

2327
00:58:55,244 --> 00:58:56,814
to talk about

2328
00:58:56,814 --> 00:58:58,784
the real life difference

2329
00:58:58,784 --> 00:59:00,134
and the choices that are made by

2330
00:59:00,134 --> 00:59:02,034
families every day.

2331
00:59:02,034 --> 00:59:03,435
That my family had to make, which

2332
00:59:03,435 --> 00:59:05,225
was full guardianship

2333
00:59:05,225 --> 00:59:06,634
for one of my now

2334
00:59:06,634 --> 00:59:08,695
adult children.

2335
00:59:08,695 --> 00:59:10,415
And how something like supported

2336
00:59:10,415 --> 00:59:12,095
decision making could have made

2337
00:59:12,095 --> 00:59:13,685
my daughter's life and our

2338
00:59:13,685 --> 00:59:15,335
lives a hell of a lot easier,

2339
00:59:15,335 --> 00:59:16,695
to be honest with you,

2340
00:59:16,695 --> 00:59:18,254
um, and would have

2341
00:59:18,254 --> 00:59:20,924
given her

2342
00:59:20,924 --> 00:59:22,504
A tool in her toolkit that she could

2343
00:59:22,504 --> 00:59:23,975
use that wasn't a

2344
00:59:23,975 --> 00:59:25,674
fight. Every day

2345
00:59:25,674 --> 00:59:27,155
trying to get disability services at

2346
00:59:27,155 --> 00:59:28,704
college or a fight

2347
00:59:28,704 --> 00:59:30,394
every day trying to get a

2348
00:59:30,394 --> 00:59:31,945
doctor's appointment scheduled cause she couldn't

2349
00:59:31,945 --> 00:59:32,964
pick up the phone and do that.

2350
00:59:32,964 --> 00:59:34,555
Again, happy to

2351
00:59:34,555 --> 00:59:35,955
discuss that either on or off the

2352
00:59:35,955 --> 00:59:37,354
record later, but

2353
00:59:37,354 --> 00:59:38,834
there, there's some real-life examples

2354
00:59:38,834 --> 00:59:40,235
that if you haven't lived

2355
00:59:40,235 --> 00:59:41,675
it, and again, not to

2356
00:59:41,675 --> 00:59:43,074
be disrespectful, but if you

2357
00:59:43,074 --> 00:59:44,474
haven't lived it, it,

2358
00:59:44,474 --> 00:59:45,994
I understand how it's hard to see that

2359
00:59:45,994 --> 00:59:47,474
view of we've already got,

2360
00:59:47,474 --> 00:59:49,185
you know, similar things in place,

2361
00:59:49,185 --> 00:59:50,875
and we have to worry about third-party reliance

2362
00:59:50,875 --> 00:59:52,634
and those kinds of things.

2363
00:59:52,634 --> 00:59:54,164
I think that all of those things like any

2364
00:59:54,164 --> 00:59:55,724
other statute that we've ultimately put on

2365
00:59:55,724 --> 00:59:57,295
the books, reasoned

2366
00:59:57,295 --> 00:59:58,765
people could come up

2367
00:59:58,765 --> 01:00:00,324
with a framework that

2368
01:00:00,324 --> 01:00:01,964
is not only

2369
01:00:01,964 --> 01:00:03,364
protects the individual and protects

2370
01:00:03,364 --> 01:00:04,845
third parties, but provides

2371
01:00:04,845 --> 01:00:06,485
an avenue in this tool

2372
01:00:06,485 --> 01:00:07,925
for individuals' disabilities that

2373
01:00:07,925 --> 01:00:09,845
quite honestly is lacking

2374
01:00:09,845 --> 01:00:11,474
in.

2375
01:00:11,474 --> 01:00:13,194
In our statutes right now and

2376
01:00:13,194 --> 01:00:14,795
as something that they can actually rely

2377
01:00:14,795 --> 01:00:16,925
on.

2378
01:00:16,925 --> 01:00:18,485
At Flint farrefield, I'm not sure if that

2379
01:00:18,485 --> 01:00:20,444
answered your question.

2380
01:00:20,444 --> 01:00:21,964
Representative >> Stinson,

2381
01:00:21,964 --> 01:00:23,925
believe you had a question.

2382
01:00:23,925 --> 01:00:25,565
Thank you. I had to, uh, step outside

2383
01:00:25,565 --> 01:00:27,045
to make phone calls, so I apologize if

2384
01:00:27,045 --> 01:00:28,685
you already covered this and I also

2385
01:00:28,685 --> 01:00:30,205
apologize to Representative Heffner

2386
01:00:30,205 --> 01:00:31,515
if you mentioned this in your bill

2387
01:00:31,515 --> 01:00:32,964
presentation earlier this year.

2388
01:00:32,964 --> 01:00:34,565
I have slept a lot since then,

2389
01:00:34,565 --> 01:00:36,125
so I don't recall, but.

2390
01:00:36,125 --> 01:00:37,914
Uh,

2391
01:00:37,914 --> 01:00:39,494
it's kind of a two-part question. First

2392
01:00:39,494 --> 01:00:40,304
is,

2393
01:00:40,304 --> 01:00:41,974
uh,

2394
01:00:41,974 --> 01:00:43,414
is there a, a

2395
01:00:43,414 --> 01:00:44,925
more fully fleshed out regulatory

2396
01:00:44,925 --> 01:00:46,244
framework for this, including

2397
01:00:46,244 --> 01:00:47,334
forms and, and,

2398
01:00:47,334 --> 01:00:48,655
um, sample

2399
01:00:48,655 --> 01:00:50,175
documents and that kind of thing

2400
01:00:50,175 --> 01:00:51,625
in other states?

2401
01:00:51,625 --> 01:00:53,104
>> There are, um, and

2402
01:00:53,104 --> 01:00:54,384
one of our speakers, Morgan

2403
01:00:54,384 --> 01:00:56,205
Whitlodge, yeah, actually

2404
01:00:56,205 --> 01:00:57,694
and >> my second part maybe this would be

2405
01:00:57,694 --> 01:00:59,304
more appropriate for her, but I'll, I'll go and just tee

2406
01:00:59,304 --> 01:01:01,005
this up now would be

2407
01:01:01,005 --> 01:01:02,545
if, if that's the case, would this

2408
01:01:02,545 --> 01:01:04,304
be something that might be appropriate

2409
01:01:04,304 --> 01:01:05,905
for the our our

2410
01:01:05,905 --> 01:01:07,425
Oklahoma chapter of the

2411
01:01:07,425 --> 01:01:08,785
Uniform Laws Commission

2412
01:01:08,785 --> 01:01:10,224
to take up so that we

2413
01:01:10,224 --> 01:01:11,545
can make sure that whatever we

2414
01:01:11,545 --> 01:01:13,095
pass. Um,

2415
01:01:13,095 --> 01:01:14,854
has some, some consistency

2416
01:01:14,854 --> 01:01:16,414
across state lines such

2417
01:01:16,414 --> 01:01:18,095
that, you know, when people move or

2418
01:01:18,095 --> 01:01:19,414
they move from here to here or

2419
01:01:19,414 --> 01:01:20,724
whatever those documents are

2420
01:01:20,724 --> 01:01:22,255
consistent, um,

2421
01:01:22,255 --> 01:01:23,944
you know, kind of on a, a national,

2422
01:01:23,944 --> 01:01:25,444
uh, basis.

2423
01:01:25,444 --> 01:01:26,815
>> Absolutely, I think that's a,

2424
01:01:26,815 --> 01:01:28,574
a, a, a wonderful

2425
01:01:28,574 --> 01:01:30,255
idea. I think that's something

2426
01:01:30,255 --> 01:01:31,959
potentially. That Representative Hefner's

2427
01:01:31,959 --> 01:01:33,520
already contemplated. Again,

2428
01:01:33,520 --> 01:01:35,199
I don't want to speak for Representative

2429
01:01:35,199 --> 01:01:36,800
Heffner, but I believe that,

2430
01:01:36,800 --> 01:01:38,390
um, using, uh,

2431
01:01:38,390 --> 01:01:40,000
statutory examples from other

2432
01:01:40,000 --> 01:01:41,560
states, um, was

2433
01:01:41,560 --> 01:01:43,119
something that was helpful

2434
01:01:43,119 --> 01:01:44,560
in designing the proposed

2435
01:01:44,560 --> 01:01:46,000
bill that was, um,

2436
01:01:46,000 --> 01:01:47,359
put before the committee,

2437
01:01:47,359 --> 01:01:47,919
uh,

2438
01:01:47,919 --> 01:01:53,595
previously.

2439
01:01:53,595 --> 01:01:55,114
>> Thank you so much thanks for your

2440
01:01:55,114 --> 01:01:56,595
questions and the the next

2441
01:01:56,595 --> 01:01:58,155
presenter will give a little bit

2442
01:01:58,155 --> 01:01:59,575
broader uh over

2443
01:01:59,575 --> 01:02:01,114
uh the other states that

2444
01:02:01,114 --> 01:02:02,514
have worked on this as

2445
01:02:02,514 --> 01:02:03,915
well um

2446
01:02:03,915 --> 01:02:05,635
I would um

2447
01:02:05,635 --> 01:02:06,714
the next presenter

2448
01:02:06,714 --> 01:02:08,554
uh Morgan

2449
01:02:08,554 --> 01:02:09,994
Whitlatch she's

2450
01:02:09,994 --> 01:02:11,355
the director of supported decision

2451
01:02:11,355 --> 01:02:12,834
making initiatives at

2452
01:02:12,834 --> 01:02:14,035
the Center for Public

2453
01:02:14,035 --> 01:02:15,755
Representation

2454
01:02:15,755 --> 01:02:17,394
thank you so much for being with us

2455
01:02:17,394 --> 01:02:19,214
today.

2456
01:02:19,214 --> 01:02:20,614
I appreciate your patience as

2457
01:02:20,614 --> 01:02:22,334
well. Um,

2458
01:02:22,334 --> 01:02:23,815
please go

2459
01:02:23,815 --> 01:02:25,614
forward with your presentation.

2460
01:02:25,614 --> 01:02:27,014
>> Wonderful. I'm gonna share

2461
01:02:27,014 --> 01:02:28,524
my screen with my PowerPoint

2462
01:02:28,524 --> 01:02:29,695
presentation just a

2463
01:02:29,695 --> 01:02:32,575
moment.

2464
01:02:32,575 --> 01:02:34,095
And I will say just as I do this, a

2465
01:02:34,095 --> 01:02:35,454
lot of, you know, a lot of really

2466
01:02:35,454 --> 01:02:37,125
good questions have been asked,

2467
01:02:37,125 --> 01:02:38,695
and a lot of states are grappling

2468
01:02:38,695 --> 01:02:40,135
with these same questions, and I think

2469
01:02:40,135 --> 01:02:41,655
we can learn a lot from the

2470
01:02:41,655 --> 01:02:42,994
experiences.

2471
01:02:42,994 --> 01:02:44,435
Um, that are happening

2472
01:02:44,435 --> 01:02:46,024
in other states. Um,

2473
01:02:46,024 --> 01:02:47,554
I would characterize,

2474
01:02:47,554 --> 01:02:49,435
you know, creating frameworks

2475
01:02:49,435 --> 01:02:50,945
for supported decision making

2476
01:02:50,945 --> 01:02:52,394
agreements as

2477
01:02:52,394 --> 01:02:53,825
a trend, um,

2478
01:02:53,825 --> 01:02:55,234
in state laws in the United

2479
01:02:55,234 --> 01:02:56,714
States, and I'm gonna talk a little bit

2480
01:02:56,714 --> 01:02:58,035
about that, um,

2481
01:02:58,035 --> 01:02:59,514
now, um, just

2482
01:02:59,514 --> 01:03:01,065
to introduce myself first. my

2483
01:03:01,065 --> 01:03:02,834
name is Morgan Whitlatch.

2484
01:03:02,834 --> 01:03:04,155
I am the director of

2485
01:03:04,155 --> 01:03:05,674
supported decision making initiatives at

2486
01:03:05,674 --> 01:03:06,554
the Center for Public

2487
01:03:06,554 --> 01:03:08,014
Representation.

2488
01:03:08,014 --> 01:03:09,144
Um, the Center for Public

2489
01:03:09,144 --> 01:03:10,704
Representation is a leading

2490
01:03:10,704 --> 01:03:12,345
national advocacy center

2491
01:03:12,345 --> 01:03:13,945
for people with disabilities in the

2492
01:03:13,945 --> 01:03:15,505
United States for over 50

2493
01:03:15,505 --> 01:03:16,905
years. And uh

2494
01:03:16,905 --> 01:03:18,424
we've done some real leadership

2495
01:03:18,424 --> 01:03:19,825
in working on supported decision

2496
01:03:19,825 --> 01:03:21,334
making. We provide technical

2497
01:03:21,334 --> 01:03:22,864
assistance around the country on these

2498
01:03:22,864 --> 01:03:24,375
kinds of topics. We've

2499
01:03:24,375 --> 01:03:25,674
worked on demonstration

2500
01:03:25,674 --> 01:03:27,095
projects, training,

2501
01:03:27,095 --> 01:03:28,144
resource development, and other

2502
01:03:28,144 --> 01:03:29,665
collaborations. and

2503
01:03:29,665 --> 01:03:31,544
you're gonna see in my presentation

2504
01:03:31,544 --> 01:03:33,065
that I am highlighting some of

2505
01:03:33,065 --> 01:03:34,575
the work that We've done this in

2506
01:03:34,575 --> 01:03:36,334
one of our specialized supported

2507
01:03:36,334 --> 01:03:37,774
decision making website,

2508
01:03:37,774 --> 01:03:39,695
supported Decisions.org.

2509
01:03:39,695 --> 01:03:40,924
On that website, we have an

2510
01:03:40,924 --> 01:03:42,375
interactive map where you

2511
01:03:42,375 --> 01:03:43,975
can see examples of other

2512
01:03:43,975 --> 01:03:45,535
states supported decision making laws,

2513
01:03:45,535 --> 01:03:46,655
and we've done a lot of related

2514
01:03:46,655 --> 01:03:48,054
analysis of

2515
01:03:48,054 --> 01:03:49,614
those laws that I'm gonna be talking

2516
01:03:49,614 --> 01:03:50,415
a little bit about

2517
01:03:50,415 --> 01:03:53,725
today.

2518
01:03:53,725 --> 01:03:55,244
So first off, you know, we are seeing

2519
01:03:55,244 --> 01:03:56,804
over the last decade more and

2520
01:03:56,804 --> 01:03:58,044
more states enact

2521
01:03:58,044 --> 01:03:59,764
supported decision making laws.

2522
01:03:59,764 --> 01:04:01,285
We're up to now at least 40

2523
01:04:01,285 --> 01:04:02,484
states and the District of

2524
01:04:02,484 --> 01:04:03,834
Columbia that have passed

2525
01:04:03,834 --> 01:04:05,165
legislation referring to

2526
01:04:05,165 --> 01:04:06,665
supported decision making in various

2527
01:04:06,665 --> 01:04:08,204
ways, and this

2528
01:04:08,204 --> 01:04:09,484
map of the United States

2529
01:04:09,484 --> 01:04:10,964
highlights some of the key trends

2530
01:04:10,964 --> 01:04:12,524
in state laws that we're seeing

2531
01:04:12,524 --> 01:04:13,644
around supported decision

2532
01:04:13,644 --> 01:04:15,024
making. States

2533
01:04:15,024 --> 01:04:16,524
are approaching it differently,

2534
01:04:16,524 --> 01:04:18,044
but we've highlighted some trends

2535
01:04:18,044 --> 01:04:19,685
here that we're seeing.

2536
01:04:19,685 --> 01:04:21,244
Um, one common way, as I've

2537
01:04:21,244 --> 01:04:22,885
said, in recognizing supported

2538
01:04:22,885 --> 01:04:24,385
decision making in state laws has

2539
01:04:24,385 --> 01:04:25,725
been codifying a legal

2540
01:04:25,725 --> 01:04:27,285
framework of supported

2541
01:04:27,285 --> 01:04:28,924
decision making agreements

2542
01:04:28,924 --> 01:04:30,394
that includes certain safeguards

2543
01:04:30,394 --> 01:04:31,755
and protections and try to

2544
01:04:31,755 --> 01:04:33,575
promote third party,

2545
01:04:33,575 --> 01:04:35,195
uh reliance upon

2546
01:04:35,195 --> 01:04:36,845
those agreements, um,

2547
01:04:36,845 --> 01:04:38,244
and also clarity of what

2548
01:04:38,244 --> 01:04:40,095
those agreements mean.

2549
01:04:40,095 --> 01:04:41,734
Um, those states are marked in purple

2550
01:04:41,734 --> 01:04:43,114
or have a purple star

2551
01:04:43,114 --> 01:04:44,614
and include 24 states and

2552
01:04:44,614 --> 01:04:46,454
the District of Columbia.

2553
01:04:46,454 --> 01:04:48,054
As Brian emphasized, that's what

2554
01:04:48,054 --> 01:04:49,855
House Bill 3906

2555
01:04:49,855 --> 01:04:50,845
in Oklahoma sought to

2556
01:04:50,845 --> 01:04:52,484
do. And

2557
01:04:52,484 --> 01:04:53,674
so we also have at least

2558
01:04:53,674 --> 01:04:55,355
23 states that have passed

2559
01:04:55,355 --> 01:04:56,845
laws that formally

2560
01:04:56,845 --> 01:04:58,144
recognize supported decision

2561
01:04:58,144 --> 01:04:59,964
making as an auxiliator

2562
01:04:59,964 --> 01:05:01,355
service to prevent

2563
01:05:01,355 --> 01:05:02,685
discrimination and access to

2564
01:05:02,685 --> 01:05:04,524
organ transplantation.

2565
01:05:04,524 --> 01:05:05,845
and these are marked in

2566
01:05:05,845 --> 01:05:07,445
yellow or with the yellow star,

2567
01:05:07,445 --> 01:05:09,165
and these laws often

2568
01:05:09,165 --> 01:05:10,725
require medical providers to

2569
01:05:10,725 --> 01:05:12,454
facilitate the provision.

2570
01:05:12,454 --> 01:05:13,984
Of these kinds of aids to ensure

2571
01:05:13,984 --> 01:05:15,334
that people with disabilities have

2572
01:05:15,334 --> 01:05:17,375
equal access

2573
01:05:17,375 --> 01:05:18,655
to certain kinds of medical

2574
01:05:18,655 --> 01:05:20,014
transplants. And as

2575
01:05:20,014 --> 01:05:21,454
Brian said, Oklahoma is one of

2576
01:05:21,454 --> 01:05:22,815
those states that have passed such

2577
01:05:22,815 --> 01:05:24,214
laws and it recognizes

2578
01:05:24,214 --> 01:05:25,685
supported decision making within a

2579
01:05:25,685 --> 01:05:27,125
framework of being a

2580
01:05:27,125 --> 01:05:28,575
reasonable accommodation for a

2581
01:05:28,575 --> 01:05:30,494
person's disability.

2582
01:05:30,494 --> 01:05:32,225
Um, at least 18

2583
01:05:32,225 --> 01:05:33,744
states have passed laws that

2584
01:05:33,744 --> 01:05:35,105
require courts or people

2585
01:05:35,105 --> 01:05:36,625
petitioning for guardianship

2586
01:05:36,625 --> 01:05:38,024
to consider supported decision

2587
01:05:38,024 --> 01:05:39,415
making as a less restrictive

2588
01:05:39,415 --> 01:05:40,984
option. These states are marked

2589
01:05:40,984 --> 01:05:42,424
in green or with a green

2590
01:05:42,424 --> 01:05:43,825
star on this map.

2591
01:05:43,825 --> 01:05:45,494
Oklahoma is one such state,

2592
01:05:45,494 --> 01:05:47,024
um, and it's also codified a

2593
01:05:47,024 --> 01:05:48,464
definition of supported decision

2594
01:05:48,464 --> 01:05:49,894
making that's modelled upon the

2595
01:05:49,894 --> 01:05:51,385
Uniform Law

2596
01:05:51,385 --> 01:05:52,905
Commission's 2017 model

2597
01:05:52,905 --> 01:05:54,704
guardianship law,

2598
01:05:54,704 --> 01:05:56,294
um, which requires core

2599
01:05:56,294 --> 01:05:57,845
consideration of supported decision making

2600
01:05:57,845 --> 01:05:59,065
as a less restrictive

2601
01:05:59,065 --> 01:06:01,185
option.

2602
01:06:01,185 --> 01:06:02,705
And then we have at least 9 states

2603
01:06:02,705 --> 01:06:04,224
in DC that have passed laws that

2604
01:06:04,224 --> 01:06:05,705
have recognized supported decision

2605
01:06:05,705 --> 01:06:06,984
making within transition

2606
01:06:06,984 --> 01:06:08,424
planning and transfer of

2607
01:06:08,424 --> 01:06:09,904
right discussions for adult

2608
01:06:09,904 --> 01:06:11,945
students with disabilities.

2609
01:06:11,945 --> 01:06:13,505
Such laws typically enable

2610
01:06:13,505 --> 01:06:15,065
adult students to include supporters

2611
01:06:15,065 --> 01:06:16,354
in discussions about

2612
01:06:16,354 --> 01:06:17,755
educational decision making.

2613
01:06:17,755 --> 01:06:19,195
And they're seeking to kind

2614
01:06:19,195 --> 01:06:20,674
of, you know, address

2615
01:06:20,674 --> 01:06:22,234
some of what has been identified as

2616
01:06:22,234 --> 01:06:23,994
a school to guardianship pipeline

2617
01:06:23,994 --> 01:06:25,505
for people with disabilities to try

2618
01:06:25,505 --> 01:06:26,994
to ensure the families

2619
01:06:26,994 --> 01:06:28,435
know the full range of options that

2620
01:06:28,435 --> 01:06:29,835
are available for

2621
01:06:29,835 --> 01:06:31,395
young adults who are in

2622
01:06:31,395 --> 01:06:33,034
a special education

2623
01:06:33,034 --> 01:06:34,544
age. States that

2624
01:06:34,544 --> 01:06:35,955
have passed such laws are marked

2625
01:06:35,955 --> 01:06:37,315
in blue or with a blue

2626
01:06:37,315 --> 01:06:38,914
star. And finally,

2627
01:06:38,914 --> 01:06:40,395
we're seeing another emerging trend

2628
01:06:40,395 --> 01:06:41,755
that's happened in at least 4

2629
01:06:41,755 --> 01:06:43,465
states which are marked with an orange

2630
01:06:43,465 --> 01:06:44,594
star, and these states have

2631
01:06:44,594 --> 01:06:46,195
recognized supported

2632
01:06:46,195 --> 01:06:47,914
decision making as a reasonable accommodation

2633
01:06:47,914 --> 01:06:49,275
relevant to making informed

2634
01:06:49,275 --> 01:06:50,835
healthcare decisions.

2635
01:06:50,835 --> 01:06:52,554
And 3 of the 4,

2636
01:06:52,554 --> 01:06:54,094
Delaware, Oklahoma, and Utah

2637
01:06:54,094 --> 01:06:55,719
have enacted the uniform. Healthcare

2638
01:06:55,719 --> 01:06:57,279
Decisions Act, which was updated

2639
01:06:57,279 --> 01:06:58,840
in 2023,

2640
01:06:58,840 --> 01:07:00,359
that really recognizes that

2641
01:07:00,359 --> 01:07:01,880
individuals have capacity for

2642
01:07:01,880 --> 01:07:03,359
the purpose of making covered

2643
01:07:03,359 --> 01:07:04,840
healthcare decisions when

2644
01:07:04,840 --> 01:07:06,400
they're able to communicate

2645
01:07:06,400 --> 01:07:07,710
decisions independently or with

2646
01:07:07,710 --> 01:07:09,039
appropriate services,

2647
01:07:09,039 --> 01:07:10,880
including supported decision making

2648
01:07:10,880 --> 01:07:13,044
or other reasonable accommodation.

2649
01:07:13,044 --> 01:07:14,445
And as I said, Oklahoma was one of

2650
01:07:14,445 --> 01:07:15,804
those states that passed this kind of

2651
01:07:15,804 --> 01:07:17,325
legislation which was approved by the

2652
01:07:17,325 --> 01:07:18,445
governor on May 12,

2653
01:07:18,445 --> 01:07:20,125
2026.

2654
01:07:20,125 --> 01:07:21,685
So you can see from this map that there

2655
01:07:21,685 --> 01:07:23,364
are different ways to codify

2656
01:07:23,364 --> 01:07:24,864
supported decision making,

2657
01:07:24,864 --> 01:07:26,125
but another thing you see in this

2658
01:07:26,125 --> 01:07:27,645
map is that the

2659
01:07:27,645 --> 01:07:29,174
majority of states that have passed

2660
01:07:29,174 --> 01:07:30,575
these kinds of laws

2661
01:07:30,575 --> 01:07:31,924
have also codified

2662
01:07:31,924 --> 01:07:33,094
supported decision making

2663
01:07:33,094 --> 01:07:34,734
in more than one way.

2664
01:07:34,734 --> 01:07:36,215
And what I mean by that is that they're

2665
01:07:36,215 --> 01:07:37,654
looking for gaps within their

2666
01:07:37,654 --> 01:07:39,255
own system about really

2667
01:07:39,255 --> 01:07:40,614
making supported decision

2668
01:07:40,614 --> 01:07:42,455
making more of the norm,

2669
01:07:42,455 --> 01:07:43,974
more considered, you know, part

2670
01:07:43,974 --> 01:07:45,974
of that kind of toolkit,

2671
01:07:45,974 --> 01:07:47,455
um, toolbox to be

2672
01:07:47,455 --> 01:07:48,854
considering when supporting

2673
01:07:48,854 --> 01:07:50,325
people with disabilities and others who

2674
01:07:50,325 --> 01:07:51,695
might need support with decision

2675
01:07:51,695 --> 01:07:54,924
making.

2676
01:07:54,924 --> 01:07:56,565
Now I'm gonna take a deeper dive

2677
01:07:56,565 --> 01:07:58,075
into those 24 states

2678
01:07:58,075 --> 01:07:59,604
that are plus DC that have

2679
01:07:59,604 --> 01:08:01,364
passed comprehensive supported

2680
01:08:01,364 --> 01:08:03,404
decision making agreement legislation.

2681
01:08:03,404 --> 01:08:04,565
And when I use that word

2682
01:08:04,565 --> 01:08:06,034
comprehensive supported

2683
01:08:06,034 --> 01:08:07,565
decision-making agreement legislation, I'm

2684
01:08:07,565 --> 01:08:09,085
talking about

2685
01:08:09,085 --> 01:08:10,645
state laws that have created

2686
01:08:10,645 --> 01:08:11,924
legal frameworks for

2687
01:08:11,924 --> 01:08:13,205
recognizing formal

2688
01:08:13,205 --> 01:08:14,765
agreements between a

2689
01:08:14,765 --> 01:08:16,685
decision maker and their supporters.

2690
01:08:16,685 --> 01:08:18,125
And I think here terminology

2691
01:08:18,125 --> 01:08:19,685
is really important. When I talk

2692
01:08:19,685 --> 01:08:21,244
about a decision maker,

2693
01:08:21,244 --> 01:08:22,724
I'm talking about

2694
01:08:22,724 --> 01:08:24,205
kind of the principal, the person

2695
01:08:24,205 --> 01:08:25,619
who is the

2696
01:08:25,619 --> 01:08:27,380
person who makes decisions

2697
01:08:27,380 --> 01:08:28,779
with the support of people that they

2698
01:08:28,779 --> 01:08:30,299
trust. When I talk

2699
01:08:30,299 --> 01:08:31,779
about supporters, I'm talking

2700
01:08:31,779 --> 01:08:33,619
about those people that they trust.

2701
01:08:33,619 --> 01:08:35,099
So I do think we have to be careful in

2702
01:08:35,099 --> 01:08:36,580
our terminology and not use

2703
01:08:36,580 --> 01:08:37,820
terms like supported decision

2704
01:08:37,820 --> 01:08:39,460
maker. Supporters

2705
01:08:39,460 --> 01:08:41,260
don't make decisions for the person.

2706
01:08:41,260 --> 01:08:42,619
They support a person in

2707
01:08:42,619 --> 01:08:44,060
making the making the

2708
01:08:44,060 --> 01:08:45,744
decisions for themselves.

2709
01:08:45,744 --> 01:08:47,224
Um, you know, I think this

2710
01:08:47,224 --> 01:08:48,544
kind of, I think part of the

2711
01:08:48,544 --> 01:08:50,104
reason why this kind

2712
01:08:50,104 --> 01:08:51,784
of gained some

2713
01:08:51,784 --> 01:08:53,304
real traction in the United

2714
01:08:53,304 --> 01:08:54,784
States over the last decade had

2715
01:08:54,784 --> 01:08:56,385
to do with the fact that the first

2716
01:08:56,385 --> 01:08:57,945
supported decision making law that was

2717
01:08:57,945 --> 01:08:59,424
passed in Texas in

2718
01:08:59,424 --> 01:09:01,325
2015.

2719
01:09:01,325 --> 01:09:02,953
was a supported decision making

2720
01:09:02,953 --> 01:09:04,404
agreement legislation and it was

2721
01:09:04,404 --> 01:09:05,754
part of a kind of

2722
01:09:05,754 --> 01:09:07,243
overhaul of the state's

2723
01:09:07,243 --> 01:09:09,044
guardianship system.

2724
01:09:09,044 --> 01:09:10,363
So it was also really

2725
01:09:10,363 --> 01:09:12,044
focused about promoting

2726
01:09:12,044 --> 01:09:13,644
less restrictive options and

2727
01:09:13,644 --> 01:09:15,564
consideration of those options.

2728
01:09:15,564 --> 01:09:16,724
And then it created a legal

2729
01:09:16,724 --> 01:09:18,683
framework. for recognizing

2730
01:09:18,683 --> 01:09:20,033
formally supported decision

2731
01:09:20,033 --> 01:09:21,523
making agreements.

2732
01:09:21,523 --> 01:09:22,923
And so since the now the

2733
01:09:22,923 --> 01:09:24,564
most recent state has been Kansas

2734
01:09:24,564 --> 01:09:26,283
in 2026. So

2735
01:09:26,283 --> 01:09:27,374
there has been a kind of

2736
01:09:27,374 --> 01:09:29,173
popularity associated

2737
01:09:29,173 --> 01:09:30,644
with this particular kind of

2738
01:09:30,644 --> 01:09:32,283
way of formally recognizing

2739
01:09:32,283 --> 01:09:32,964
supported decision

2740
01:09:32,964 --> 01:09:35,844
making.

2741
01:09:35,844 --> 01:09:37,403
Now we've delved in with

2742
01:09:37,403 --> 01:09:38,644
my office, we've delved and

2743
01:09:38,644 --> 01:09:40,364
analyzed these kind of supported

2744
01:09:40,364 --> 01:09:41,684
decision making agreement legislation

2745
01:09:41,684 --> 01:09:43,243
very closely to kind

2746
01:09:43,243 --> 01:09:44,673
of identify trends and

2747
01:09:44,673 --> 01:09:45,964
some food for thought for

2748
01:09:45,964 --> 01:09:47,524
states considering going down this

2749
01:09:47,524 --> 01:09:49,164
path. Um,

2750
01:09:49,164 --> 01:09:50,403
you know, just because something might be

2751
01:09:50,403 --> 01:09:51,844
popular in terms of, uh, you

2752
01:09:51,844 --> 01:09:53,403
know, being a a way of going,

2753
01:09:53,403 --> 01:09:55,004
it doesn't mean that it works for

2754
01:09:55,004 --> 01:09:56,243
everybody. And so really thinking

2755
01:09:56,243 --> 01:09:57,793
critically. Um, and we've

2756
01:09:57,793 --> 01:09:59,394
seen some really promising

2757
01:09:59,394 --> 01:10:00,914
ways of thinking critically about

2758
01:10:00,914 --> 01:10:02,473
those laws. So in the beginning,

2759
01:10:02,473 --> 01:10:03,994
uh, people were just kind of or

2760
01:10:03,994 --> 01:10:05,433
states were kind of adopting

2761
01:10:05,433 --> 01:10:07,003
Texas's law without

2762
01:10:07,003 --> 01:10:08,473
really thinking through

2763
01:10:08,473 --> 01:10:09,994
how it would work in their states or

2764
01:10:09,994 --> 01:10:11,113
their improvements that could be

2765
01:10:11,113 --> 01:10:12,634
made. And I think when we

2766
01:10:12,634 --> 01:10:14,094
look at

2767
01:10:14,094 --> 01:10:15,693
You know, the Oklahoma legislation

2768
01:10:15,693 --> 01:10:17,213
that was introduced, we see some of

2769
01:10:17,213 --> 01:10:18,693
those promising trends of

2770
01:10:18,693 --> 01:10:20,174
thinking about this kind of

2771
01:10:20,174 --> 01:10:21,774
creatively and not just being cookie

2772
01:10:21,774 --> 01:10:23,124
cutter about this.

2773
01:10:23,124 --> 01:10:24,573
Um, we see that kind of entering

2774
01:10:24,573 --> 01:10:26,174
into that legislation, and I think that's

2775
01:10:26,174 --> 01:10:27,774
promising. I think you have to figure

2776
01:10:27,774 --> 01:10:29,094
out what's going to work

2777
01:10:29,094 --> 01:10:30,653
best in Oklahoma,

2778
01:10:30,653 --> 01:10:32,293
what's gonna work best for the people

2779
01:10:32,293 --> 01:10:33,763
here. Um, so

2780
01:10:33,763 --> 01:10:35,204
the first thing I really think about

2781
01:10:35,204 --> 01:10:36,763
is it, it goes back to,

2782
01:10:36,763 --> 01:10:38,804
I think, um,

2783
01:10:38,804 --> 01:10:40,274
someone who spoke here and it's

2784
01:10:40,274 --> 01:10:41,844
difficult for me to see completely here,

2785
01:10:41,844 --> 01:10:43,323
but talked about, well, how is

2786
01:10:43,323 --> 01:10:45,083
this different than informal

2787
01:10:45,083 --> 01:10:46,683
supported decision making.

2788
01:10:46,683 --> 01:10:48,164
And I think in recognizing

2789
01:10:48,164 --> 01:10:49,484
supported decision making, and if you're

2790
01:10:49,484 --> 01:10:50,804
thinking about really trying to

2791
01:10:50,804 --> 01:10:52,244
codify legal structures

2792
01:10:52,244 --> 01:10:53,753
for it, I think it's important

2793
01:10:53,753 --> 01:10:55,524
to recognize that

2794
01:10:55,524 --> 01:10:57,003
supported decision making arrangements are

2795
01:10:57,003 --> 01:10:58,524
not all formal in nature.

2796
01:10:58,524 --> 01:11:00,083
Many more people use

2797
01:11:00,083 --> 01:11:01,604
informal supported decision

2798
01:11:01,604 --> 01:11:03,073
making every day.

2799
01:11:03,073 --> 01:11:04,554
Including people with and without

2800
01:11:04,554 --> 01:11:06,034
disabilities.

2801
01:11:06,034 --> 01:11:07,513
And there are many ways that

2802
01:11:07,513 --> 01:11:08,913
you can document those kinds

2803
01:11:08,913 --> 01:11:10,433
of relationships short

2804
01:11:10,433 --> 01:11:12,073
of formal supported decision making

2805
01:11:12,073 --> 01:11:13,553
agreements. We

2806
01:11:13,553 --> 01:11:14,963
need to make sure that in trying to

2807
01:11:14,963 --> 01:11:16,633
promote recognition of supported

2808
01:11:16,633 --> 01:11:18,073
decision making, we are not

2809
01:11:18,073 --> 01:11:19,353
saying that everybody needs to have a

2810
01:11:19,353 --> 01:11:20,874
supported decision making agreement to use

2811
01:11:20,874 --> 01:11:22,353
it, OK? It's just another

2812
01:11:22,353 --> 01:11:23,913
tool in the toolbox that

2813
01:11:23,913 --> 01:11:25,334
people who want to have a written

2814
01:11:25,334 --> 01:11:26,594
agreement like that

2815
01:11:26,594 --> 01:11:28,114
can use if they

2816
01:11:28,114 --> 01:11:29,704
want to use it.

2817
01:11:29,704 --> 01:11:31,163
Uh, we really want to be promoting

2818
01:11:31,163 --> 01:11:32,224
flexibility and

2819
01:11:32,224 --> 01:11:33,704
individualization within those kinds

2820
01:11:33,704 --> 01:11:36,534
of arrangements.

2821
01:11:36,534 --> 01:11:38,094
Well some individuals may opt to

2822
01:11:38,094 --> 01:11:39,853
create that kind of formal supported

2823
01:11:39,853 --> 01:11:41,573
decision making arrangement that conforms

2824
01:11:41,573 --> 01:11:42,974
with their state laws, others

2825
01:11:42,974 --> 01:11:44,653
may prefer the more kind of flexible

2826
01:11:44,653 --> 01:11:46,133
and informal approach, and I

2827
01:11:46,133 --> 01:11:47,614
think that needs to continue to

2828
01:11:47,614 --> 01:11:49,133
be allowed because supported decision

2829
01:11:49,133 --> 01:11:50,773
making in many ways is human

2830
01:11:50,773 --> 01:11:52,334
decision making. I think perhaps

2831
01:11:52,334 --> 01:11:54,084
we give it a special or

2832
01:11:54,084 --> 01:11:55,534
special kind of phrase when

2833
01:11:55,534 --> 01:11:57,174
we're talking about people with disabilities

2834
01:11:57,174 --> 01:11:58,454
or older adults just to

2835
01:11:58,454 --> 01:11:59,933
remind ourselves that

2836
01:11:59,933 --> 01:12:01,413
people may need more support in

2837
01:12:01,413 --> 01:12:02,933
making decisions, but that doesn't mean

2838
01:12:02,933 --> 01:12:03,974
they can't make decisions at

2839
01:12:03,974 --> 01:12:05,523
all. Um,

2840
01:12:05,523 --> 01:12:07,114
creating a kind of legal framework

2841
01:12:07,114 --> 01:12:08,644
can really help with third-party

2842
01:12:08,644 --> 01:12:10,163
enforceability,

2843
01:12:10,163 --> 01:12:11,444
as well as addressing

2844
01:12:11,444 --> 01:12:12,963
concerns which we live in a

2845
01:12:12,963 --> 01:12:14,683
in a litigious liability

2846
01:12:14,683 --> 01:12:16,004
fields concerned

2847
01:12:16,004 --> 01:12:17,663
society. And so it addresses

2848
01:12:17,663 --> 01:12:18,644
that piece of this as

2849
01:12:18,644 --> 01:12:20,323
well. Um,

2850
01:12:20,323 --> 01:12:22,013
several state laws

2851
01:12:22,013 --> 01:12:23,564
recognize that

2852
01:12:23,564 --> 01:12:25,043
people may prefer to

2853
01:12:25,043 --> 01:12:27,394
act independently

2854
01:12:27,394 --> 01:12:28,883
without using their supporters in certain

2855
01:12:28,883 --> 01:12:30,323
circumstances, even if they have

2856
01:12:30,323 --> 01:12:31,584
a supported decision making

2857
01:12:31,584 --> 01:12:33,194
agreement. And they recognize

2858
01:12:33,194 --> 01:12:34,603
that possibility

2859
01:12:34,603 --> 01:12:35,763
expressly, and that's

2860
01:12:35,763 --> 01:12:37,234
what the, the House

2861
01:12:37,234 --> 01:12:38,603
bill that was introduced did.

2862
01:12:38,603 --> 01:12:40,043
It recognized that people

2863
01:12:40,043 --> 01:12:41,683
just because you have a supportive decision-making

2864
01:12:41,683 --> 01:12:43,124
agreement doesn't mean that you

2865
01:12:43,124 --> 01:12:44,883
don't, can't, you know,

2866
01:12:44,883 --> 01:12:46,163
act independently of your

2867
01:12:46,163 --> 01:12:47,844
supporters because you haven't ceded

2868
01:12:47,844 --> 01:12:49,644
any type of authority

2869
01:12:49,644 --> 01:12:51,163
to someone else.

2870
01:12:51,163 --> 01:12:52,644
Um, and so, you know, I

2871
01:12:52,644 --> 01:12:54,124
think that's a very positive trend

2872
01:12:54,124 --> 01:12:55,603
in recognizing that people can

2873
01:12:55,603 --> 01:12:57,204
continue to use informed

2874
01:12:57,204 --> 01:12:58,763
decision making support as well as

2875
01:12:58,763 --> 01:13:00,724
act independently.

2876
01:13:00,724 --> 01:13:02,284
This is, you know, it's just creating

2877
01:13:02,284 --> 01:13:03,803
a legal framework for those who

2878
01:13:03,803 --> 01:13:05,383
want to use it.

2879
01:13:05,383 --> 01:13:06,834
Um,

2880
01:13:06,834 --> 01:13:08,344
However, you know, the other piece I

2881
01:13:08,344 --> 01:13:09,784
think is really important to kind of

2882
01:13:09,784 --> 01:13:11,584
keep in mind is

2883
01:13:11,584 --> 01:13:13,023
when you're when you're balancing

2884
01:13:13,023 --> 01:13:14,333
safeguards versus

2885
01:13:14,333 --> 01:13:15,863
barriers to access. And what I mean

2886
01:13:15,863 --> 01:13:17,703
when I say this is that,

2887
01:13:17,703 --> 01:13:19,143
you know, we need to think

2888
01:13:19,143 --> 01:13:20,974
really carefully

2889
01:13:20,974 --> 01:13:22,474
about How,

2890
01:13:22,474 --> 01:13:23,794
you know, um, in

2891
01:13:23,794 --> 01:13:25,393
seeking to try to safeguard

2892
01:13:25,393 --> 01:13:26,514
people that we may see as

2893
01:13:26,514 --> 01:13:27,953
vulnerable, are we

2894
01:13:27,953 --> 01:13:29,673
actually creating barriers

2895
01:13:29,673 --> 01:13:31,224
to access? And when

2896
01:13:31,224 --> 01:13:32,673
I talk about this, I talk

2897
01:13:32,673 --> 01:13:34,113
about, you know, we have to remember what

2898
01:13:34,113 --> 01:13:35,514
a supported decision making

2899
01:13:35,514 --> 01:13:36,754
agreement does and doesn't

2900
01:13:36,754 --> 01:13:38,233
do.

2901
01:13:38,233 --> 01:13:39,643
And that's what a legal framework can

2902
01:13:39,643 --> 01:13:41,083
help with in understanding what

2903
01:13:41,083 --> 01:13:43,004
it does and doesn't do.

2904
01:13:43,004 --> 01:13:44,564
So the supporters under

2905
01:13:44,564 --> 01:13:46,164
a supported decision making agreement

2906
01:13:46,164 --> 01:13:47,724
do not have the authority to

2907
01:13:47,724 --> 01:13:49,284
make decisions on behalf of the

2908
01:13:49,284 --> 01:13:51,113
person who's who

2909
01:13:51,113 --> 01:13:52,884
who who they're supporting.

2910
01:13:52,884 --> 01:13:54,284
In that sense, they have very

2911
01:13:54,284 --> 01:13:55,923
little authority. They can't

2912
01:13:55,923 --> 01:13:57,433
sign on the dotted line of a

2913
01:13:57,433 --> 01:13:58,884
document on behalf of someone. They

2914
01:13:58,884 --> 01:14:00,803
can't enter into a loan.

2915
01:14:00,803 --> 01:14:02,523
They're not the guardian of the person

2916
01:14:02,523 --> 01:14:03,923
overseen by the court with all the

2917
01:14:03,923 --> 01:14:05,393
fiduciary responsibilities

2918
01:14:05,393 --> 01:14:06,993
associated with that.

2919
01:14:06,993 --> 01:14:08,284
They are assisting the person

2920
01:14:08,284 --> 01:14:09,604
in understanding the

2921
01:14:09,604 --> 01:14:11,483
choices that they face

2922
01:14:11,483 --> 01:14:12,754
to be able to ask

2923
01:14:12,754 --> 01:14:14,164
questions, to be able to get

2924
01:14:14,164 --> 01:14:15,703
advice, to access information

2925
01:14:15,703 --> 01:14:17,444
they need to make a decision,

2926
01:14:17,444 --> 01:14:18,764
and then help communicating

2927
01:14:18,764 --> 01:14:20,963
that decision for others.

2928
01:14:20,963 --> 01:14:22,354
So when we talk about kind of

2929
01:14:22,354 --> 01:14:24,164
the safeguards for that,

2930
01:14:24,164 --> 01:14:25,324
why would the safeguards

2931
01:14:25,324 --> 01:14:26,833
be, they certainly

2932
01:14:26,833 --> 01:14:28,284
wouldn't have to be what they would have to

2933
01:14:28,284 --> 01:14:29,923
be for a power of attorney,

2934
01:14:29,923 --> 01:14:31,643
where the power of attorney is actually

2935
01:14:31,643 --> 01:14:33,164
giving the agent under a power

2936
01:14:33,164 --> 01:14:34,743
of attorney the authority to act

2937
01:14:34,743 --> 01:14:36,203
for the person under

2938
01:14:36,203 --> 01:14:37,844
certain circumstances, and

2939
01:14:37,844 --> 01:14:39,023
instead of the person in certain

2940
01:14:39,023 --> 01:14:40,523
circumstances. So I

2941
01:14:40,523 --> 01:14:42,083
think it's a really careful balance

2942
01:14:42,083 --> 01:14:42,863
in thinking through

2943
01:14:42,863 --> 01:14:44,764
that.

2944
01:14:44,764 --> 01:14:46,134
Another piece to really think

2945
01:14:46,134 --> 01:14:47,574
about carefully when thinking

2946
01:14:47,574 --> 01:14:49,213
about supported decision making and

2947
01:14:49,213 --> 01:14:51,134
agreement laws is their applicability

2948
01:14:51,134 --> 01:14:52,683
and whether certain individuals are

2949
01:14:52,683 --> 01:14:54,014
excluded from the

2950
01:14:54,014 --> 01:14:55,733
law's protections.

2951
01:14:55,733 --> 01:14:57,374
So while many of the SDMA

2952
01:14:57,374 --> 01:14:58,854
laws that are on the books

2953
01:14:58,854 --> 01:15:00,493
allow a decision maker to be any

2954
01:15:00,493 --> 01:15:02,014
adult, others are

2955
01:15:02,014 --> 01:15:03,713
limited to people with disabilities

2956
01:15:03,713 --> 01:15:05,173
or people with particular types of

2957
01:15:05,173 --> 01:15:06,574
disabilities.

2958
01:15:06,574 --> 01:15:08,213
For example, in at least 11

2959
01:15:08,213 --> 01:15:10,053
states in DC, they the

2960
01:15:10,053 --> 01:15:11,613
supported decision making agreement law only

2961
01:15:11,613 --> 01:15:12,518
applies to people

2962
01:15:12,518 --> 01:15:13,858
disabilities. And

2963
01:15:13,858 --> 01:15:15,379
another two are limited to people with

2964
01:15:15,379 --> 01:15:17,169
intellectual or developmental disabilities.

2965
01:15:17,169 --> 01:15:18,528
And I really think that those kinds of

2966
01:15:18,528 --> 01:15:19,808
exclusions

2967
01:15:19,808 --> 01:15:21,139
create access barriers by

2968
01:15:21,139 --> 01:15:22,819
preventing individuals who don't

2969
01:15:22,819 --> 01:15:24,419
necessarily satisfy that statutory

2970
01:15:24,419 --> 01:15:25,898
criteria from benefiting from

2971
01:15:25,898 --> 01:15:27,578
the law's protections.

2972
01:15:27,578 --> 01:15:29,018
And they also move away from the

2973
01:15:29,018 --> 01:15:30,458
principles of universal

2974
01:15:30,458 --> 01:15:32,178
design and may stigmatize

2975
01:15:32,178 --> 01:15:33,539
the use of SDMAs or

2976
01:15:33,539 --> 01:15:35,018
SDM agreements through

2977
01:15:35,018 --> 01:15:36,539
the ableism or biases against

2978
01:15:36,539 --> 01:15:38,058
people with disabilities. And so we're

2979
01:15:38,058 --> 01:15:39,578
seeing a trend

2980
01:15:39,578 --> 01:15:41,414
to make Supported

2981
01:15:41,414 --> 01:15:42,773
decision making agreements available to

2982
01:15:42,773 --> 01:15:44,094
all, and that's

2983
01:15:44,094 --> 01:15:45,683
what um Oklahoma's

2984
01:15:45,683 --> 01:15:46,854
proposed legislation would have

2985
01:15:46,854 --> 01:15:50,284
done.

2986
01:15:50,284 --> 01:15:51,604
I think if I had to

2987
01:15:51,604 --> 01:15:53,083
characterize

2988
01:15:53,083 --> 01:15:54,324
like the biggest

2989
01:15:54,324 --> 01:15:56,083
reason why

2990
01:15:56,083 --> 01:15:57,724
states are considering creating

2991
01:15:57,724 --> 01:15:59,444
legal frameworks for supported

2992
01:15:59,444 --> 01:16:00,683
decision-making agreements that are

2993
01:16:00,683 --> 01:16:01,903
formal

2994
01:16:01,903 --> 01:16:03,324
arrangements, um, it's

2995
01:16:03,324 --> 01:16:04,724
it's about effective

2996
01:16:04,724 --> 01:16:05,844
third party recognition and

2997
01:16:05,844 --> 01:16:07,523
enforceability

2998
01:16:07,523 --> 01:16:08,963
and the existing laws that are out

2999
01:16:08,963 --> 01:16:10,363
there very widely and the

3000
01:16:10,363 --> 01:16:12,004
extent to which they prescribe

3001
01:16:12,004 --> 01:16:13,523
requirements for a legally valid

3002
01:16:13,523 --> 01:16:14,523
supported decision making

3003
01:16:14,523 --> 01:16:16,203
agreement. Some laws,

3004
01:16:16,203 --> 01:16:17,653
for example, require

3005
01:16:17,653 --> 01:16:19,124
individuals to substantially

3006
01:16:19,124 --> 01:16:20,653
follow a statutory

3007
01:16:20,653 --> 01:16:22,164
form like a power of

3008
01:16:22,164 --> 01:16:23,574
attorney, like when

3009
01:16:23,574 --> 01:16:25,333
you have to follow, substantially

3010
01:16:25,333 --> 01:16:26,854
follow that kind of form,

3011
01:16:26,854 --> 01:16:28,453
while others simply set forth

3012
01:16:28,453 --> 01:16:30,173
categories for information

3013
01:16:30,173 --> 01:16:31,653
that the SDM agreement

3014
01:16:31,653 --> 01:16:33,493
must include.

3015
01:16:33,493 --> 01:16:34,893
Laws also um

3016
01:16:34,893 --> 01:16:36,493
impose various execution

3017
01:16:36,493 --> 01:16:37,974
requirements, such as the presence

3018
01:16:37,974 --> 01:16:39,694
of a witness to satisfy

3019
01:16:39,694 --> 01:16:40,814
certain criteria or

3020
01:16:40,814 --> 01:16:42,333
notarization or

3021
01:16:42,333 --> 01:16:43,773
the inclusion of certain kind of

3022
01:16:43,773 --> 01:16:45,613
supporter declarations.

3023
01:16:45,613 --> 01:16:47,493
And while those kinds of execution

3024
01:16:47,493 --> 01:16:49,213
and validity requirements may enhance

3025
01:16:49,213 --> 01:16:50,933
the credibility of the

3026
01:16:50,933 --> 01:16:52,374
supported decision-making agreement in the

3027
01:16:52,374 --> 01:16:53,933
eyes of third parties, they

3028
01:16:53,933 --> 01:16:55,453
also have and they also come

3029
01:16:55,453 --> 01:16:56,893
with costs that you need to

3030
01:16:56,893 --> 01:16:58,374
think through. For

3031
01:16:58,374 --> 01:16:59,773
example, a notarization

3032
01:16:59,773 --> 01:17:00,933
requirement may pose

3033
01:17:00,933 --> 01:17:02,613
accessibility issues for people

3034
01:17:02,613 --> 01:17:03,884
who don't have easy access to

3035
01:17:03,884 --> 01:17:05,333
transportation or

3036
01:17:05,333 --> 01:17:07,363
funds to pay a notary.

3037
01:17:07,363 --> 01:17:08,673
Similarly, statutory

3038
01:17:08,673 --> 01:17:09,953
forms can create useful

3039
01:17:09,953 --> 01:17:11,713
templates for people drafting

3040
01:17:11,713 --> 01:17:13,673
supported decision making agreements,

3041
01:17:13,673 --> 01:17:15,153
and like Brian said, easy

3042
01:17:15,153 --> 01:17:16,784
recognizability for

3043
01:17:16,784 --> 01:17:18,393
third parties, like we know what this

3044
01:17:18,393 --> 01:17:19,903
form looks like.

3045
01:17:19,903 --> 01:17:21,414
But requiring a universal

3046
01:17:21,414 --> 01:17:22,863
adoption of those kinds of

3047
01:17:22,863 --> 01:17:24,583
forms can also result in barriers

3048
01:17:24,583 --> 01:17:26,423
for people with different communication

3049
01:17:26,423 --> 01:17:27,983
modes or needs. And so

3050
01:17:27,983 --> 01:17:29,504
some states have taken steps to

3051
01:17:29,504 --> 01:17:30,944
try to promote accessibility of

3052
01:17:30,944 --> 01:17:32,504
those forms and really allow

3053
01:17:32,504 --> 01:17:34,183
supported decision making agreements

3054
01:17:34,183 --> 01:17:35,624
to take different forms

3055
01:17:35,624 --> 01:17:37,343
based on the needs of the decision maker.

3056
01:17:37,343 --> 01:17:38,783
And so that's something to consider when

3057
01:17:38,783 --> 01:17:39,894
you're thinking about this kind of

3058
01:17:39,894 --> 01:17:43,944
legislation.

3059
01:17:43,944 --> 01:17:45,343
When I also think about like

3060
01:17:45,343 --> 01:17:46,704
enforceability, it

3061
01:17:46,704 --> 01:17:48,384
comes down to the

3062
01:17:48,384 --> 01:17:49,704
strength of the

3063
01:17:49,704 --> 01:17:51,423
indemnity clauses

3064
01:17:51,423 --> 01:17:52,694
that are in the

3065
01:17:52,694 --> 01:17:54,223
legislation. And when I say that

3066
01:17:54,223 --> 01:17:55,863
I'm, I'm trying to respond

3067
01:17:55,863 --> 01:17:57,464
to third parties

3068
01:17:57,464 --> 01:17:58,704
real fears related to

3069
01:17:58,704 --> 01:18:00,183
liability.

3070
01:18:00,183 --> 01:18:01,904
And so supported decision-making

3071
01:18:01,904 --> 01:18:03,624
agreement laws can play a really critical

3072
01:18:03,624 --> 01:18:04,983
role in mitigating those

3073
01:18:04,983 --> 01:18:06,933
concerns by incorporating

3074
01:18:06,933 --> 01:18:08,303
provisions that shield third

3075
01:18:08,303 --> 01:18:09,743
parties from liability when they

3076
01:18:09,743 --> 01:18:11,343
rely on supported decision-making

3077
01:18:11,343 --> 01:18:13,024
agreements in good faith.

3078
01:18:13,024 --> 01:18:14,504
And to answer another question that

3079
01:18:14,504 --> 01:18:16,024
had come up

3080
01:18:16,024 --> 01:18:17,504
about whether or not laws

3081
01:18:17,504 --> 01:18:19,183
ever indemnify

3082
01:18:19,183 --> 01:18:20,343
supporters who act in good

3083
01:18:20,343 --> 01:18:21,624
faith, there

3084
01:18:21,624 --> 01:18:23,144
are there are

3085
01:18:23,144 --> 01:18:24,704
a couple of statutes

3086
01:18:24,704 --> 01:18:26,303
that do include specific

3087
01:18:26,303 --> 01:18:27,904
provisions to try to protect

3088
01:18:27,904 --> 01:18:29,103
supporters from liability as

3089
01:18:29,103 --> 01:18:30,504
well in those

3090
01:18:30,504 --> 01:18:32,774
cases.

3091
01:18:32,774 --> 01:18:34,303
Uh, it's really important to have a

3092
01:18:34,303 --> 01:18:35,894
strong statutory definition

3093
01:18:35,894 --> 01:18:37,743
of supported decision making.

3094
01:18:37,743 --> 01:18:39,254
Um, unfortunately, not all

3095
01:18:39,254 --> 01:18:40,894
laws do.

3096
01:18:40,894 --> 01:18:42,413
Um, and it's, it's good. I

3097
01:18:42,413 --> 01:18:44,134
think that Oklahoma does have

3098
01:18:44,134 --> 01:18:45,374
already in the books a law that

3099
01:18:45,374 --> 01:18:46,894
defines supported decision-making

3100
01:18:46,894 --> 01:18:48,454
agreement to have kind of a

3101
01:18:48,454 --> 01:18:50,093
comprehensive definition and

3102
01:18:50,093 --> 01:18:52,134
describe its kind of core principles,

3103
01:18:52,134 --> 01:18:53,733
and doing so can really

3104
01:18:53,733 --> 01:18:55,254
help to make sure it aligns with

3105
01:18:55,254 --> 01:18:56,774
the principles of supported decision

3106
01:18:56,774 --> 01:18:58,293
making and avoid

3107
01:18:58,293 --> 01:18:59,694
what I call unintended

3108
01:18:59,694 --> 01:19:01,404
unintended consequences associated

3109
01:19:01,404 --> 01:19:02,904
with codification.

3110
01:19:02,904 --> 01:19:04,433
OK. Like everything, there can be

3111
01:19:04,433 --> 01:19:06,363
unintended consequences

3112
01:19:06,363 --> 01:19:07,644
when you take something that

3113
01:19:07,644 --> 01:19:09,683
has worked informally,

3114
01:19:09,683 --> 01:19:11,243
um, and, and try to formalize

3115
01:19:11,243 --> 01:19:12,683
it. If you make it

3116
01:19:12,683 --> 01:19:14,093
too prescriptive, if you make your

3117
01:19:14,093 --> 01:19:15,723
law too prescriptive,

3118
01:19:15,723 --> 01:19:17,324
and I think we have to be really careful

3119
01:19:17,324 --> 01:19:18,843
not to mutate

3120
01:19:18,843 --> 01:19:20,283
what supported decision making

3121
01:19:20,283 --> 01:19:21,874
means when we seek to formalize

3122
01:19:21,874 --> 01:19:23,524
it. I have seen formal

3123
01:19:23,524 --> 01:19:25,043
definitions of supported decision

3124
01:19:25,043 --> 01:19:26,464
making and proposed legislation

3125
01:19:26,464 --> 01:19:28,004
that aren't faithful to

3126
01:19:28,004 --> 01:19:29,843
the true meaning of the term.

3127
01:19:29,843 --> 01:19:31,374
Um, you know, I think we have to

3128
01:19:31,374 --> 01:19:33,053
remember, I call it the curse

3129
01:19:33,053 --> 01:19:34,293
of too many SDM

3130
01:19:34,293 --> 01:19:35,613
acronyms.

3131
01:19:35,613 --> 01:19:36,973
Supported decision making is

3132
01:19:36,973 --> 01:19:38,564
different than substitute

3133
01:19:38,564 --> 01:19:40,014
decision making when someone

3134
01:19:40,014 --> 01:19:41,603
else, like an agent

3135
01:19:41,603 --> 01:19:43,134
under a power of attorney

3136
01:19:43,134 --> 01:19:44,654
or a guardian makes the decision

3137
01:19:44,654 --> 01:19:46,134
for the person,

3138
01:19:46,134 --> 01:19:47,603
and supported decision making is

3139
01:19:47,603 --> 01:19:48,824
different than shared decision

3140
01:19:48,824 --> 01:19:50,394
making, where there's a

3141
01:19:50,394 --> 01:19:51,853
decision is only made when

3142
01:19:51,853 --> 01:19:53,413
the person and their supporters all

3143
01:19:53,413 --> 01:19:54,793
agree. So

3144
01:19:54,793 --> 01:19:56,274
really thinking very closely

3145
01:19:56,274 --> 01:19:57,714
about that when you're thinking about

3146
01:19:57,714 --> 01:19:59,514
putting in these kind of guardrails

3147
01:19:59,514 --> 01:20:01,033
to assist people in enforcing these

3148
01:20:01,033 --> 01:20:02,074
arrangements is very

3149
01:20:02,074 --> 01:20:04,154
important.

3150
01:20:04,154 --> 01:20:05,714
I also think another thing to be

3151
01:20:05,714 --> 01:20:07,353
very important, uh, to think

3152
01:20:07,353 --> 01:20:08,673
through very carefully

3153
01:20:08,673 --> 01:20:10,233
about, you know, the safeguards that

3154
01:20:10,233 --> 01:20:11,714
are built into bills

3155
01:20:11,714 --> 01:20:13,394
like this is

3156
01:20:13,394 --> 01:20:15,504
not to be overprotective,

3157
01:20:15,504 --> 01:20:16,793
um, in thinking about

3158
01:20:16,793 --> 01:20:17,714
supported decision-making

3159
01:20:17,714 --> 01:20:19,074
arrangements as

3160
01:20:19,074 --> 01:20:20,689
I've said, you know, I think it's

3161
01:20:20,689 --> 01:20:22,249
important to keep in mind

3162
01:20:22,249 --> 01:20:23,889
when you're thinking about those safeguards,

3163
01:20:23,889 --> 01:20:25,249
what supported decision-making

3164
01:20:25,249 --> 01:20:26,649
agreements do and what they

3165
01:20:26,649 --> 01:20:28,288
don't do. And supported

3166
01:20:28,288 --> 01:20:29,808
decision-making agreements really don't give

3167
01:20:29,808 --> 01:20:30,928
a lot of power to

3168
01:20:30,928 --> 01:20:32,383
supporters. Supporters

3169
01:20:32,383 --> 01:20:33,863
are advisors. They

3170
01:20:33,863 --> 01:20:35,472
help the person.

3171
01:20:35,472 --> 01:20:37,042
Um, in making certain kinds of

3172
01:20:37,042 --> 01:20:38,392
decisions. powers of

3173
01:20:38,392 --> 01:20:39,682
attorney give far more

3174
01:20:39,682 --> 01:20:41,243
authority to agents

3175
01:20:41,243 --> 01:20:43,163
to actually act

3176
01:20:43,163 --> 01:20:44,563
instead of the person.

3177
01:20:44,563 --> 01:20:45,923
Um, I've heard powers of

3178
01:20:45,923 --> 01:20:47,392
attorney called within the elder

3179
01:20:47,392 --> 01:20:48,802
justice, um,

3180
01:20:48,802 --> 01:20:50,122
space a license to

3181
01:20:50,122 --> 01:20:51,603
steal because they give so much

3182
01:20:51,603 --> 01:20:53,202
authority to the agents.

3183
01:20:53,202 --> 01:20:54,792
That's not the case with a supported

3184
01:20:54,792 --> 01:20:56,392
decision-making agreement. It

3185
01:20:56,392 --> 01:20:57,952
doesn't give those supporters that kind of

3186
01:20:57,952 --> 01:20:59,502
authority. And so really thinking

3187
01:20:59,502 --> 01:21:00,932
carefully before you impose

3188
01:21:00,932 --> 01:21:02,353
any kind of disqualifying

3189
01:21:02,353 --> 01:21:03,792
provisions or anything

3190
01:21:03,792 --> 01:21:05,313
like that on who can serve as a

3191
01:21:05,313 --> 01:21:07,072
formal supporter for someone

3192
01:21:07,072 --> 01:21:08,513
is really important. And that's why

3193
01:21:08,513 --> 01:21:09,952
I really do recommend when we're

3194
01:21:09,952 --> 01:21:11,873
thinking about safeguards,

3195
01:21:11,873 --> 01:21:13,592
um, to be think about incorporating

3196
01:21:13,592 --> 01:21:15,112
in supported decision-making agreement

3197
01:21:15,112 --> 01:21:16,412
legislation.

3198
01:21:16,412 --> 01:21:17,903
is reminding people,

3199
01:21:17,903 --> 01:21:19,373
is reminding people like House Bill

3200
01:21:19,373 --> 01:21:20,653
3906 does

3201
01:21:20,653 --> 01:21:21,932
that there is

3202
01:21:21,932 --> 01:21:23,053
already existing

3203
01:21:23,053 --> 01:21:24,373
mandatory reporting

3204
01:21:24,373 --> 01:21:25,732
requirements for suspected

3205
01:21:25,732 --> 01:21:26,813
abuse under state

3206
01:21:26,813 --> 01:21:28,132
laws. OK. Those

3207
01:21:28,132 --> 01:21:29,572
are already existing and on

3208
01:21:29,572 --> 01:21:31,052
the books. And

3209
01:21:31,052 --> 01:21:32,452
so, let's not

3210
01:21:32,452 --> 01:21:33,893
be too overly robust

3211
01:21:33,893 --> 01:21:35,412
in so-called safeguards that can

3212
01:21:35,412 --> 01:21:36,973
in practice be barriers to

3213
01:21:36,973 --> 01:21:38,533
access for people and

3214
01:21:38,533 --> 01:21:40,003
prevent them from choosing people they

3215
01:21:40,003 --> 01:21:41,493
trust to help them under

3216
01:21:41,493 --> 01:21:43,213
a formal supported

3217
01:21:43,213 --> 01:21:43,973
decision-making agreement

3218
01:21:43,973 --> 01:21:46,103
legislation.

3219
01:21:46,103 --> 01:21:47,543
I also think we have to

3220
01:21:47,543 --> 01:21:48,982
find ways to measure

3221
01:21:48,982 --> 01:21:50,622
the impact of reforms

3222
01:21:50,622 --> 01:21:52,582
when these kinds of initiatives

3223
01:21:52,582 --> 01:21:54,063
are undertaken. cause I

3224
01:21:54,063 --> 01:21:55,543
know I'm gonna get questions about which

3225
01:21:55,543 --> 01:21:57,043
of these supported decision-making

3226
01:21:57,043 --> 01:21:58,183
agreement laws have been most

3227
01:21:58,183 --> 01:21:59,702
successful, um, cause

3228
01:21:59,702 --> 01:22:01,293
I get that question all the time. And the

3229
01:22:01,293 --> 01:22:02,582
reality is, is that

3230
01:22:02,582 --> 01:22:04,143
states aren't really measuring

3231
01:22:04,143 --> 01:22:05,783
it as well as they should be measuring

3232
01:22:05,783 --> 01:22:07,223
it. You know, I

3233
01:22:07,223 --> 01:22:08,702
think, you know, what I can say,

3234
01:22:08,702 --> 01:22:10,382
like for example, Wisconsin,

3235
01:22:10,382 --> 01:22:11,702
who was one of the early

3236
01:22:11,702 --> 01:22:13,482
supported decision-making agreement.

3237
01:22:13,482 --> 01:22:15,143
Um, adopters,

3238
01:22:15,143 --> 01:22:16,543
um, they did look to

3239
01:22:16,543 --> 01:22:17,912
see the impact on the number of

3240
01:22:17,912 --> 01:22:19,232
guardianship petitions that were

3241
01:22:19,232 --> 01:22:20,832
filed, and over the course of a

3242
01:22:20,832 --> 01:22:22,192
three-year period after

3243
01:22:22,192 --> 01:22:23,313
the bill to create

3244
01:22:23,313 --> 01:22:24,423
STM

3245
01:22:24,423 --> 01:22:26,073
agreements existed

3246
01:22:26,073 --> 01:22:27,592
and was introduced, they saw a

3247
01:22:27,592 --> 01:22:28,793
20% decrease in

3248
01:22:28,793 --> 01:22:30,272
petitions.

3249
01:22:30,272 --> 01:22:31,783
Um, you know, so they, there

3250
01:22:31,783 --> 01:22:32,902
is some efforts to

3251
01:22:32,902 --> 01:22:34,342
measure the impact

3252
01:22:34,342 --> 01:22:35,863
of these legislations

3253
01:22:35,863 --> 01:22:37,383
on guardianship petitions and

3254
01:22:37,383 --> 01:22:38,943
whether it's making it so that

3255
01:22:38,943 --> 01:22:40,383
those guardianship petitions that are

3256
01:22:40,383 --> 01:22:41,943
unnecessary or not

3257
01:22:41,943 --> 01:22:43,622
really needed, um,

3258
01:22:43,622 --> 01:22:45,023
it's addressing that particular

3259
01:22:45,023 --> 01:22:46,563
problem, um, but we have

3260
01:22:46,563 --> 01:22:48,102
to, as a state, we should

3261
01:22:48,102 --> 01:22:49,583
figure out a way to really

3262
01:22:49,583 --> 01:22:51,143
measure, um, what the

3263
01:22:51,143 --> 01:22:52,503
impact on this is because I always

3264
01:22:52,503 --> 01:22:53,943
say in consulting on these

3265
01:22:53,943 --> 01:22:55,462
kinds of projects, we collect, we as

3266
01:22:55,462 --> 01:22:56,902
a society collect data about

3267
01:22:56,902 --> 01:22:58,512
things we care about.

3268
01:22:58,512 --> 01:22:59,913
And we should care about people's

3269
01:22:59,913 --> 01:23:01,473
rights to make decisions.

3270
01:23:01,473 --> 01:23:03,053
And unfortunately, kind of across

3271
01:23:03,053 --> 01:23:04,633
the country, guardianship data

3272
01:23:04,633 --> 01:23:05,833
is very

3273
01:23:05,833 --> 01:23:07,193
uneven,

3274
01:23:07,193 --> 01:23:08,712
um, and there really does need

3275
01:23:08,712 --> 01:23:10,232
to be a kind of concerted

3276
01:23:10,232 --> 01:23:11,833
effort to see the real

3277
01:23:11,833 --> 01:23:13,352
impact of these laws and how they can

3278
01:23:13,352 --> 01:23:14,872
be improved upon, uh,

3279
01:23:14,872 --> 01:23:16,512
and tweaked if need be over

3280
01:23:16,512 --> 01:23:18,732
time.

3281
01:23:18,732 --> 01:23:20,033
I'm happy to answer any

3282
01:23:20,033 --> 01:23:21,572
questions. Um, I included within

3283
01:23:21,572 --> 01:23:23,253
these slides my contact

3284
01:23:23,253 --> 01:23:24,932
information as well. Um,

3285
01:23:24,932 --> 01:23:26,413
and I wanted to open the

3286
01:23:26,413 --> 01:23:27,813
floor for questions now,

3287
01:23:27,813 --> 01:23:29,413
or if you wanted to wait, I,

3288
01:23:29,413 --> 01:23:30,932
um, Representative,

3289
01:23:30,932 --> 01:23:32,173
I saw that you had

3290
01:23:32,173 --> 01:23:33,572
allotted questions later

3291
01:23:33,572 --> 01:23:35,253
on the in the,

3292
01:23:35,253 --> 01:23:36,732
in the agenda, so I'll defer

3293
01:23:36,732 --> 01:23:36,852
to

3294
01:23:36,852 --> 01:23:40,452
you.

3295
01:23:40,452 --> 01:23:42,292
>> Representative Deck,

3296
01:23:42,292 --> 01:23:43,572
you're ready or

3297
01:23:43,572 --> 01:23:46,753
who?

3298
01:23:46,753 --> 01:23:48,303
>> Thank you, Chairman.

3299
01:23:48,303 --> 01:23:50,023
Um, thank you. That was

3300
01:23:50,023 --> 01:23:51,303
excellent. Um, I do have

3301
01:23:51,303 --> 01:23:52,863
a, uh, really

3302
01:23:52,863 --> 01:23:54,423
one question. Are there any other states

3303
01:23:54,423 --> 01:23:55,732
doing any kind of

3304
01:23:55,732 --> 01:23:57,613
education process,

3305
01:23:57,613 --> 01:23:59,053
um, for the

3306
01:23:59,053 --> 01:24:00,822
deci, uh,

3307
01:24:00,822 --> 01:24:02,462
supportive decision makers?

3308
01:24:02,462 --> 01:24:03,982
Is there continuing education?

3309
01:24:03,982 --> 01:24:05,962
How does, how does that operate?

3310
01:24:05,962 --> 01:24:07,283
>> You know, we're seeing more and

3311
01:24:07,283 --> 01:24:08,723
more states actually

3312
01:24:08,723 --> 01:24:10,083
incorporate into

3313
01:24:10,083 --> 01:24:11,602
their supported decision making

3314
01:24:11,602 --> 01:24:13,212
agreement legislation

3315
01:24:13,212 --> 01:24:14,682
specific educational

3316
01:24:14,682 --> 01:24:16,283
components. So for

3317
01:24:16,283 --> 01:24:17,962
example, in Illinois,

3318
01:24:17,962 --> 01:24:19,682
um, there was

3319
01:24:19,682 --> 01:24:21,163
a commission that was

3320
01:24:21,163 --> 01:24:23,033
tasked with providing

3321
01:24:23,033 --> 01:24:24,762
education to supporters and

3322
01:24:24,762 --> 01:24:26,122
decision makers about

3323
01:24:26,122 --> 01:24:27,592
what supported decision making

3324
01:24:27,592 --> 01:24:29,643
agreements were or weren't.

3325
01:24:29,643 --> 01:24:31,133
In California, there was a

3326
01:24:31,133 --> 01:24:32,852
specific kind of technical assistance

3327
01:24:32,852 --> 01:24:34,352
center that was created that was going to

3328
01:24:34,352 --> 01:24:36,072
be providing wider

3329
01:24:36,072 --> 01:24:37,572
education. I would say

3330
01:24:37,572 --> 01:24:38,492
that's one of the more

3331
01:24:38,492 --> 01:24:39,773
promising

3332
01:24:39,773 --> 01:24:41,253
practices I would say

3333
01:24:41,253 --> 01:24:42,803
because I think, you know,

3334
01:24:42,803 --> 01:24:44,133
you need, I think there needs to be a

3335
01:24:44,133 --> 01:24:45,892
real understanding

3336
01:24:45,892 --> 01:24:47,362
in communities

3337
01:24:47,362 --> 01:24:48,932
about what supported decision making

3338
01:24:48,932 --> 01:24:50,212
agreements are and

3339
01:24:50,212 --> 01:24:51,823
aren't.

3340
01:24:51,823 --> 01:24:53,263
And A

3341
01:24:53,263 --> 01:24:55,063
concerted effort,

3342
01:24:55,063 --> 01:24:56,622
um, and provisions

3343
01:24:56,622 --> 01:24:58,462
for that in legislation,

3344
01:24:58,462 --> 01:24:59,223
I think are very

3345
01:24:59,223 --> 01:25:11,172
promising.

3346
01:25:11,172 --> 01:25:12,813
>> Thank you so much. um,

3347
01:25:12,813 --> 01:25:14,342
appreciate if you just hang on a little bit there

3348
01:25:14,342 --> 01:25:15,902
may be some other questions as

3349
01:25:15,902 --> 01:25:17,422
we get to the end. Um,

3350
01:25:17,422 --> 01:25:18,983
I would like to, uh,

3351
01:25:18,983 --> 01:25:20,703
recognize our next presenters.

3352
01:25:20,703 --> 01:25:22,582
Um, I

3353
01:25:22,582 --> 01:25:24,422
have known, uh,

3354
01:25:24,422 --> 01:25:25,772
um, Heather Pike and Leighton

3355
01:25:25,772 --> 01:25:27,142
Pike for a while

3356
01:25:27,142 --> 01:25:28,503
and as Leighton's

3357
01:25:28,503 --> 01:25:30,172
grown up, uh,

3358
01:25:30,172 --> 01:25:31,342
these questions have come up

3359
01:25:31,342 --> 01:25:32,823
with his mom and I have

3360
01:25:32,823 --> 01:25:34,223
talked about it. So

3361
01:25:34,223 --> 01:25:35,703
Leighton, there's a a button that you

3362
01:25:35,703 --> 01:25:36,902
wanna push uh

3363
01:25:36,902 --> 01:25:37,742
to have the

3364
01:25:37,742 --> 01:25:39,133
microphone.

3365
01:25:39,133 --> 01:25:40,503
And you and your mom are both gonna

3366
01:25:40,503 --> 01:25:41,892
speak, but Leighton, will

3367
01:25:41,892 --> 01:25:42,582
you introduce

3368
01:25:42,582 --> 01:25:46,372
yourself?

3369
01:25:46,372 --> 01:25:47,742
>> I um, I'm

3370
01:25:47,742 --> 01:25:49,082
waiting

3371
01:25:49,082 --> 01:25:50,172
and

3372
01:25:50,172 --> 01:25:51,832
um I've

3373
01:25:51,832 --> 01:25:53,372
just been looking

3374
01:25:53,372 --> 01:25:55,092
for a job

3375
01:25:55,092 --> 01:25:57,253
and

3376
01:25:57,253 --> 01:25:57,293
>> how you are and

3377
01:25:57,293 --> 01:26:00,242
>> I'm

3378
01:26:00,242 --> 01:26:04,063
28.

3379
01:26:04,063 --> 01:26:05,703
and I live in Edmond,

3380
01:26:05,703 --> 01:26:09,862
Oklahoma.

3381
01:26:09,862 --> 01:26:11,422
What >> what do you just tell him some things

3382
01:26:11,422 --> 01:26:11,943
you like to

3383
01:26:11,943 --> 01:26:13,932
do.

3384
01:26:13,932 --> 01:26:16,663
>> Um,

3385
01:26:16,663 --> 01:26:18,223
I just like to

3386
01:26:18,223 --> 01:26:21,392
um

3387
01:26:21,392 --> 01:26:22,552
detail cars

3388
01:26:22,552 --> 01:26:24,302
and.

3389
01:26:24,302 --> 01:26:25,703
And all

3390
01:26:25,703 --> 01:26:26,672
and all that

3391
01:26:26,672 --> 01:26:28,033
stuff.

3392
01:26:28,033 --> 01:26:30,522
Yeah.

3393
01:26:30,522 --> 01:26:32,082
I actually work at

3394
01:26:32,082 --> 01:26:33,763
um Jackie Cooper

3395
01:26:33,763 --> 01:26:35,983
BMW.

3396
01:26:35,983 --> 01:26:37,793
And I haven't been there

3397
01:26:37,793 --> 01:26:39,432
since like

3398
01:26:39,432 --> 01:26:41,043
October

3399
01:26:41,043 --> 01:26:42,872
of 2

3400
01:26:42,872 --> 01:26:45,733
years.

3401
01:26:45,733 --> 01:26:47,133
So I've been looking for a

3402
01:26:47,133 --> 01:26:49,263
job everywhere.

3403
01:26:49,263 --> 01:26:50,552
>> What are some things you like to do for

3404
01:26:50,552 --> 01:26:52,003
fun?

3405
01:26:52,003 --> 01:26:53,193
>> Um, hang out with my

3406
01:26:53,193 --> 01:26:54,652
nephews,

3407
01:26:54,652 --> 01:26:56,043
um,

3408
01:26:56,043 --> 01:26:57,022
And my sister

3409
01:26:57,022 --> 01:26:59,272
and

3410
01:26:59,272 --> 01:27:00,793
And I like hanging out with my

3411
01:27:00,793 --> 01:27:01,712
dog,

3412
01:27:01,712 --> 01:27:04,483
Marley.

3413
01:27:04,483 --> 01:27:05,723
Uh, what are some things

3414
01:27:05,723 --> 01:27:09,913
you

3415
01:27:09,913 --> 01:27:11,313
Oh, and

3416
01:27:11,313 --> 01:27:12,772
I would

3417
01:27:12,772 --> 01:27:14,293
I always want to get a

3418
01:27:14,293 --> 01:27:16,592
driver's license.

3419
01:27:16,592 --> 01:27:20,033
Yeah.

3420
01:27:20,033 --> 01:27:20,723
huh? where do you want to

3421
01:27:20,723 --> 01:27:23,172
live?

3422
01:27:23,172 --> 01:27:24,612
Um, and I would like

3423
01:27:24,612 --> 01:27:26,033
to live um

3424
01:27:26,033 --> 01:27:27,492
by myself while I'm

3425
01:27:27,492 --> 01:27:29,052
like 32 or

3426
01:27:29,052 --> 01:27:30,693
33

3427
01:27:30,693 --> 01:27:32,253
years old.

3428
01:27:32,253 --> 01:27:33,693
>> Heather, you have him till 32 or

3429
01:27:33,693 --> 01:27:35,212
33. That's great.

3430
01:27:35,212 --> 01:27:36,293
It's funny because >> he

3431
01:27:36,293 --> 01:27:38,313
said

3432
01:27:38,313 --> 01:27:39,323
>> I remember, I

3433
01:27:39,323 --> 01:27:40,703
remember,

3434
01:27:40,703 --> 01:27:41,883
I remember, I

3435
01:27:41,883 --> 01:27:43,763
remember.

3436
01:27:43,763 --> 01:27:45,402
How long have you been interested in cars,

3437
01:27:45,402 --> 01:27:46,763
Leighton?

3438
01:27:46,763 --> 01:27:48,913
>> Um,

3439
01:27:48,913 --> 01:27:50,892
I've been

3440
01:27:50,892 --> 01:27:52,332
Uh, since you were

3441
01:27:52,332 --> 01:27:54,362
a baby, baby,

3442
01:27:54,362 --> 01:27:55,733
since when I was like,

3443
01:27:55,733 --> 01:27:57,293
baby, >> your whole

3444
01:27:57,293 --> 01:27:58,763
life. I like as long as I've

3445
01:27:58,763 --> 01:28:00,332
known you since you were little, you've always

3446
01:28:00,332 --> 01:28:01,892
talked and brought cars with

3447
01:28:01,892 --> 01:28:03,372
you and talking about

3448
01:28:03,372 --> 01:28:05,013
cars. Yeah.

3449
01:28:05,013 --> 01:28:06,533
So currently, do you have

3450
01:28:06,533 --> 01:28:08,092
a job or you're looking for a

3451
01:28:08,092 --> 01:28:09,453
job? >> I'm looking

3452
01:28:09,453 --> 01:28:10,853
for a a

3453
01:28:10,853 --> 01:28:12,753
second job.

3454
01:28:12,753 --> 01:28:14,612
>> How many hours do you get a week?

3455
01:28:14,612 --> 01:28:16,853
>> Um,

3456
01:28:16,853 --> 01:28:18,422
right now. None

3457
01:28:18,422 --> 01:28:20,793
right now.

3458
01:28:20,793 --> 01:28:22,033
>> Heather, do you want to give us a

3459
01:28:22,033 --> 01:28:23,522
little information about,

3460
01:28:23,522 --> 01:28:25,193
especially talking with the,

3461
01:28:25,193 --> 01:28:26,672
introduce yourself and then tell

3462
01:28:26,672 --> 01:28:28,383
us a little bit about the

3463
01:28:28,383 --> 01:28:29,832
conversations about Leighton, especially a

3464
01:28:29,832 --> 01:28:31,462
job and living at 32

3465
01:28:31,462 --> 01:28:33,313
or 33 by himself,

3466
01:28:33,313 --> 01:28:34,913
um, and, uh, guardianship

3467
01:28:34,913 --> 01:28:36,473
and support of decision making.

3468
01:28:36,473 --> 01:28:38,142
>> Sure, so my name is Heather.

3469
01:28:38,142 --> 01:28:39,543
Pike, I am Leighton's

3470
01:28:39,543 --> 01:28:41,022
mom. Leighton also has an

3471
01:28:41,022 --> 01:28:42,503
older sister, and he mentioned

3472
01:28:42,503 --> 01:28:43,983
his two nephews that he spends a

3473
01:28:43,983 --> 01:28:45,453
lot of time with.

3474
01:28:45,453 --> 01:28:47,293
Um, and she's definitely,

3475
01:28:47,293 --> 01:28:49,063
you know, one of his bigger

3476
01:28:49,063 --> 01:28:50,342
supporters and helping him

3477
01:28:50,342 --> 01:28:51,763
make decisions

3478
01:28:51,763 --> 01:28:53,263
and things like that. But the older he

3479
01:28:53,263 --> 01:28:54,823
gets, the bigger those decisions

3480
01:28:54,823 --> 01:28:56,152
get. Um,

3481
01:28:56,152 --> 01:28:57,902
and the bigger his goals,

3482
01:28:57,902 --> 01:28:59,273
you know, get that we want to help

3483
01:28:59,273 --> 01:29:01,032
him achieve those goals.

3484
01:29:01,032 --> 01:29:02,633
Um, so being his mom and

3485
01:29:02,633 --> 01:29:03,792
speaking on behalf of

3486
01:29:03,792 --> 01:29:05,352
just informal

3487
01:29:05,352 --> 01:29:06,872
and potentially more

3488
01:29:06,872 --> 01:29:08,472
formal supported

3489
01:29:08,472 --> 01:29:09,823
decision making is something that I'm

3490
01:29:09,823 --> 01:29:11,263
really interested in.

3491
01:29:11,263 --> 01:29:12,432
Um, as his mom,

3492
01:29:12,432 --> 01:29:14,003
we're my husband and I

3493
01:29:14,003 --> 01:29:15,453
try to take care of ourselves because

3494
01:29:15,453 --> 01:29:17,052
we know we need to live as long as,

3495
01:29:17,052 --> 01:29:18,573
you know, we want to live as long as we

3496
01:29:18,573 --> 01:29:20,213
can to make sure Leighton

3497
01:29:20,213 --> 01:29:21,653
has the best life possible

3498
01:29:21,653 --> 01:29:23,323
and we're around to see that

3499
01:29:23,323 --> 01:29:24,773
through. But, you know, we

3500
01:29:24,773 --> 01:29:26,232
need as families

3501
01:29:26,232 --> 01:29:27,713
a safety net

3502
01:29:27,713 --> 01:29:28,722
for that.

3503
01:29:28,722 --> 01:29:30,323
Currently, we have

3504
01:29:30,323 --> 01:29:31,682
power of attorney for medical and

3505
01:29:31,682 --> 01:29:33,323
financial for Leighton,

3506
01:29:33,323 --> 01:29:34,722
um, but having another

3507
01:29:34,722 --> 01:29:36,282
option would be, um,

3508
01:29:36,282 --> 01:29:37,843
you know, beneficial and

3509
01:29:37,843 --> 01:29:39,242
also kind of, you

3510
01:29:39,242 --> 01:29:40,802
know, give us, um, like I

3511
01:29:40,802 --> 01:29:42,143
said, that safety net

3512
01:29:42,143 --> 01:29:43,682
of making sure that he

3513
01:29:43,682 --> 01:29:45,203
is surrounded by people that know

3514
01:29:45,203 --> 01:29:46,643
him and love him and

3515
01:29:46,643 --> 01:29:47,963
can support him in those

3516
01:29:47,963 --> 01:29:49,482
decisions, such as living by

3517
01:29:49,482 --> 01:29:50,843
himself someday.

3518
01:29:50,843 --> 01:29:52,602
Um. We use

3519
01:29:52,602 --> 01:29:54,063
this supported decision

3520
01:29:54,063 --> 01:29:55,732
making and I these

3521
01:29:55,732 --> 01:29:57,143
conversations have been helpful in, you

3522
01:29:57,143 --> 01:29:58,622
know, helping me gather

3523
01:29:58,622 --> 01:30:00,222
some thoughts too that maybe I didn't

3524
01:30:00,222 --> 01:30:01,862
write down, but we all

3525
01:30:01,862 --> 01:30:03,182
use those informal

3526
01:30:03,182 --> 01:30:04,742
supported decision making, you know, on

3527
01:30:04,742 --> 01:30:06,042
a daily basis with our

3528
01:30:06,042 --> 01:30:07,583
spouses, with our neighbours, with

3529
01:30:07,583 --> 01:30:09,222
our, you know, siblings,

3530
01:30:09,222 --> 01:30:10,703
with our parents, um, and

3531
01:30:10,703 --> 01:30:12,213
it's no different in the

3532
01:30:12,213 --> 01:30:13,622
lives of those with

3533
01:30:13,622 --> 01:30:14,742
disabilities,

3534
01:30:14,742 --> 01:30:16,292
um, and we want them

3535
01:30:16,292 --> 01:30:17,463
to be as independent as

3536
01:30:17,463 --> 01:30:18,982
possible, um, you know, some

3537
01:30:18,982 --> 01:30:20,143
of those simple things could

3538
01:30:20,143 --> 01:30:21,872
be Um,

3539
01:30:21,872 --> 01:30:23,313
just today, as Leighton

3540
01:30:23,313 --> 01:30:24,672
was getting dressed to come up

3541
01:30:24,672 --> 01:30:26,393
here, he was putting on

3542
01:30:26,393 --> 01:30:27,912
shorts, which it's hot

3543
01:30:27,912 --> 01:30:29,193
outside, so I'm fine with,

3544
01:30:29,193 --> 01:30:30,732
but had a North

3545
01:30:30,732 --> 01:30:32,193
Face graphic t-shirt

3546
01:30:32,193 --> 01:30:33,672
and I was like, we're

3547
01:30:33,672 --> 01:30:35,153
going to the Capitol. Do you

3548
01:30:35,153 --> 01:30:36,703
think that's the, you know,

3549
01:30:36,703 --> 01:30:38,232
the right shirt you should be wearing

3550
01:30:38,232 --> 01:30:39,713
today? So he pulls out

3551
01:30:39,713 --> 01:30:41,193
a collared shirt, as he

3552
01:30:41,193 --> 01:30:42,753
refers to as a, I have

3553
01:30:42,753 --> 01:30:43,472
to wear a church

3554
01:30:43,472 --> 01:30:45,573
shirt.

3555
01:30:45,573 --> 01:30:47,122
And, um, put that on

3556
01:30:47,122 --> 01:30:48,542
and, you know, I just

3557
01:30:48,542 --> 01:30:50,102
tried to support him in that decision.

3558
01:30:50,102 --> 01:30:51,552
Is that the best decision for

3559
01:30:51,552 --> 01:30:52,862
you to make today?

3560
01:30:52,862 --> 01:30:54,383
Um, something else we do a

3561
01:30:54,383 --> 01:30:55,982
lot on a daily basis

3562
01:30:55,982 --> 01:30:57,542
is talk about

3563
01:30:57,542 --> 01:30:59,023
our choices as we get

3564
01:30:59,023 --> 01:31:00,622
older for, um, what

3565
01:31:00,622 --> 01:31:02,492
we put in our bodies.

3566
01:31:02,492 --> 01:31:03,982
Um, do we need to drink Doctor

3567
01:31:03,982 --> 01:31:05,383
Pepper every

3568
01:31:05,383 --> 01:31:06,213
time that

3569
01:31:06,213 --> 01:31:07,713
we, and

3570
01:31:07,713 --> 01:31:09,242
he's laughing because

3571
01:31:09,242 --> 01:31:10,653
he stopped by Chick fil A on the

3572
01:31:10,653 --> 01:31:12,143
way here and

3573
01:31:12,143 --> 01:31:13,662
Requested a Dr. Pepper. And I

3574
01:31:13,662 --> 01:31:15,143
was like, Well, did you drink

3575
01:31:15,143 --> 01:31:16,662
your water this morning?

3576
01:31:16,662 --> 01:31:18,093
Yes, I drank a big cup of

3577
01:31:18,093 --> 01:31:19,503
water this morning. So,

3578
01:31:19,503 --> 01:31:20,922
just trying to help support him

3579
01:31:20,922 --> 01:31:22,263
in those decisions, not

3580
01:31:22,263 --> 01:31:23,662
telling him, you can't have

3581
01:31:23,662 --> 01:31:25,263
this or you can't do this,

3582
01:31:25,263 --> 01:31:26,703
but you're an adult,

3583
01:31:26,703 --> 01:31:28,302
so let's figure out the best,

3584
01:31:28,302 --> 01:31:29,903
you know, the best

3585
01:31:29,903 --> 01:31:31,463
decisions that that you can make,

3586
01:31:31,463 --> 01:31:33,102
um, for the goals that you have for

3587
01:31:33,102 --> 01:31:33,943
yourself.

3588
01:31:33,943 --> 01:31:35,563
Um, In

3589
01:31:35,563 --> 01:31:36,922
looking at just, you

3590
01:31:36,922 --> 01:31:38,523
know, some of the building

3591
01:31:38,523 --> 01:31:40,143
up to being a 28

3592
01:31:40,143 --> 01:31:41,722
year old adult,

3593
01:31:41,722 --> 01:31:43,282
um, you know, he does have

3594
01:31:43,282 --> 01:31:45,032
some goals, um,

3595
01:31:45,032 --> 01:31:46,612
I will say that,

3596
01:31:46,612 --> 01:31:48,282
um, we try to be very

3597
01:31:48,282 --> 01:31:49,843
intentional in setting

3598
01:31:49,843 --> 01:31:51,403
like his IEP goals and

3599
01:31:51,403 --> 01:31:52,922
things like that throughout his school

3600
01:31:52,922 --> 01:31:54,242
career of

3601
01:31:54,242 --> 01:31:55,773
being an advocate for

3602
01:31:55,773 --> 01:31:57,182
himself, um, being able

3603
01:31:57,182 --> 01:31:58,722
to, if mom and dad

3604
01:31:58,722 --> 01:32:00,162
aren't there to, you

3605
01:32:00,162 --> 01:32:01,462
know, repeat

3606
01:32:01,462 --> 01:32:02,971
a question that you don't

3607
01:32:02,971 --> 01:32:04,262
understand or not

3608
01:32:04,262 --> 01:32:05,901
there to help you navigate

3609
01:32:05,901 --> 01:32:07,491
an environment or,

3610
01:32:07,491 --> 01:32:09,172
you know, it's OK to ask

3611
01:32:09,172 --> 01:32:10,661
questions or to find someone

3612
01:32:10,661 --> 01:32:12,062
to help you find the answers that

3613
01:32:12,062 --> 01:32:13,622
you need. Um, and I

3614
01:32:13,622 --> 01:32:14,717
think in Doing that

3615
01:32:14,717 --> 01:32:16,577
intentionally.

3616
01:32:16,577 --> 01:32:18,176
Um, and one of the things I want to be

3617
01:32:18,176 --> 01:32:19,766
sure and mention is using the

3618
01:32:19,766 --> 01:32:20,887
charting the life course

3619
01:32:20,887 --> 01:32:22,417
tools. Um, those

3620
01:32:22,417 --> 01:32:23,256
tools are so

3621
01:32:23,256 --> 01:32:24,657
complementary

3622
01:32:24,657 --> 01:32:26,256
in, um, self-directed

3623
01:32:26,256 --> 01:32:27,696
and self, um, you

3624
01:32:27,696 --> 01:32:28,696
know, just

3625
01:32:28,696 --> 01:32:29,737
self-supported,

3626
01:32:29,737 --> 01:32:30,897
um, self-

3627
01:32:30,897 --> 01:32:32,702
determination.

3628
01:32:32,702 --> 01:32:34,082
Things that go right

3629
01:32:34,082 --> 01:32:35,402
along with

3630
01:32:35,402 --> 01:32:37,382
supported decision making,

3631
01:32:37,382 --> 01:32:39,242
but those that trajectory

3632
01:32:39,242 --> 01:32:40,722
is a tool I always have in my

3633
01:32:40,722 --> 01:32:42,141
mind for him for goals

3634
01:32:42,141 --> 01:32:43,761
and one of our goals

3635
01:32:43,761 --> 01:32:45,281
for him all through school was

3636
01:32:45,281 --> 01:32:46,722
to be as independent as

3637
01:32:46,722 --> 01:32:48,281
he could be. he

3638
01:32:48,281 --> 01:32:49,722
wants to live by himself,

3639
01:32:49,722 --> 01:32:51,161
so daily, you

3640
01:32:51,161 --> 01:32:52,761
know, we're we teach those

3641
01:32:52,761 --> 01:32:54,082
life skills. he

3642
01:32:54,082 --> 01:32:55,601
receives developmental disability

3643
01:32:55,601 --> 01:32:57,042
services and those goals

3644
01:32:57,042 --> 01:32:58,452
are in. Um,

3645
01:32:58,452 --> 01:32:59,891
his individual plan,

3646
01:32:59,891 --> 01:33:01,442
you know, you want to live

3647
01:33:01,442 --> 01:33:02,972
by yourself, but you got to do

3648
01:33:02,972 --> 01:33:04,811
your laundry, you know,

3649
01:33:04,811 --> 01:33:06,372
you want to live by yourself when you

3650
01:33:06,372 --> 01:33:07,851
see the trash needs to be taken

3651
01:33:07,851 --> 01:33:09,372
out, we shouldn't have to

3652
01:33:09,372 --> 01:33:10,612
tell you to do that. You're a

3653
01:33:10,612 --> 01:33:12,211
contributor in this house, not

3654
01:33:12,211 --> 01:33:13,811
just a consumer, and

3655
01:33:13,811 --> 01:33:15,332
so being sure to instill those

3656
01:33:15,332 --> 01:33:16,891
kinds of things, um,

3657
01:33:16,891 --> 01:33:18,412
and setting that foundation for

3658
01:33:18,412 --> 01:33:20,052
that. but he's really

3659
01:33:20,052 --> 01:33:21,571
good at, um, you

3660
01:33:21,571 --> 01:33:23,162
know, just He'll

3661
01:33:23,162 --> 01:33:24,722
he was the little kid in Target.

3662
01:33:24,722 --> 01:33:26,372
If he wanted to know where something

3663
01:33:26,372 --> 01:33:27,802
was, I could hear him

3664
01:33:27,802 --> 01:33:29,311
three aisles away asking

3665
01:33:29,311 --> 01:33:30,711
someone with the Target, you know,

3666
01:33:30,711 --> 01:33:32,201
tag on their shirt,

3667
01:33:32,201 --> 01:33:33,601
where do I find the Hot

3668
01:33:33,601 --> 01:33:35,521
Wheels or, you know, whatever,

3669
01:33:35,521 --> 01:33:37,042
um, going up and doing that.

3670
01:33:37,042 --> 01:33:38,561
And along those lines, do you want

3671
01:33:38,561 --> 01:33:40,002
to tell them about flying

3672
01:33:40,002 --> 01:33:41,692
by yourself?

3673
01:33:41,692 --> 01:33:43,061
Yeah, OK, I'll let you do

3674
01:33:43,061 --> 01:33:47,582
that.

3675
01:33:47,582 --> 01:33:48,741
>> Um, I

3676
01:33:48,741 --> 01:33:50,141
just, um, I

3677
01:33:50,141 --> 01:33:51,432
like to fly by

3678
01:33:51,432 --> 01:33:52,582
myself to,

3679
01:33:52,582 --> 01:33:53,982
um, to

3680
01:33:53,982 --> 01:33:55,762
Iowa sometimes

3681
01:33:55,762 --> 01:33:57,021
and,

3682
01:33:57,021 --> 01:33:58,982
um, and I just

3683
01:33:58,982 --> 01:34:00,222
got back from,

3684
01:34:00,222 --> 01:34:01,862
um, Florida

3685
01:34:01,862 --> 01:34:02,381
last

3686
01:34:02,381 --> 01:34:05,072
February.

3687
01:34:05,072 --> 01:34:06,492
Yeah, and stayed with

3688
01:34:06,492 --> 01:34:07,972
um with

3689
01:34:07,972 --> 01:34:09,912
my dad's

3690
01:34:09,912 --> 01:34:11,391
dad and his girlfriend

3691
01:34:11,391 --> 01:34:12,912
so for a few

3692
01:34:12,912 --> 01:34:13,431
days

3693
01:34:13,431 --> 01:34:15,421
to

3694
01:34:15,421 --> 01:34:16,781
Yeah, and I had to change

3695
01:34:16,781 --> 01:34:18,261
planes and I

3696
01:34:18,261 --> 01:34:19,862
go, I had to go

3697
01:34:19,862 --> 01:34:21,302
through like

3698
01:34:21,302 --> 01:34:22,822
um Saint

3699
01:34:22,822 --> 01:34:24,261
Louis on on

3700
01:34:24,261 --> 01:34:25,901
the way back home.

3701
01:34:25,901 --> 01:34:27,912
And I ask people,

3702
01:34:27,912 --> 01:34:29,502
um, I need

3703
01:34:29,502 --> 01:34:30,862
help to find to

3704
01:34:30,862 --> 01:34:32,662
get the gate, and

3705
01:34:32,662 --> 01:34:34,141
no one's never helped

3706
01:34:34,141 --> 01:34:35,582
me.

3707
01:34:35,582 --> 01:34:37,102
So I found it by

3708
01:34:37,102 --> 01:34:42,871
myself.

3709
01:34:42,871 --> 01:34:44,431
>> Uh, no, one of,

3710
01:34:44,431 --> 01:34:45,791
one of his goals was to fly

3711
01:34:45,791 --> 01:34:47,192
by himself and so,

3712
01:34:47,192 --> 01:34:47,951
um, in

3713
01:34:47,951 --> 01:34:50,031
2018,

3714
01:34:50,031 --> 01:34:51,472
um, several

3715
01:34:51,472 --> 01:34:52,951
years ago, um, I guess

3716
01:34:52,951 --> 01:34:54,791
almost now,

3717
01:34:54,791 --> 01:34:56,552
almost seven years ago now,

3718
01:34:56,552 --> 01:34:58,091
um, my husband

3719
01:34:58,091 --> 01:34:59,311
is a first responder

3720
01:34:59,311 --> 01:35:00,791
firefighter and he's a what

3721
01:35:00,791 --> 01:35:02,151
if guy, so he's

3722
01:35:02,151 --> 01:35:03,621
like, nope.

3723
01:35:03,621 --> 01:35:05,222
Not gonna fly by himself, like

3724
01:35:05,222 --> 01:35:06,942
what happens if he has a seizure?

3725
01:35:06,942 --> 01:35:08,242
what happens if there's a

3726
01:35:08,242 --> 01:35:09,781
crazy shooter,

3727
01:35:09,781 --> 01:35:11,261
active shooter in the airport,

3728
01:35:11,261 --> 01:35:12,781
like he's always going to the worst

3729
01:35:12,781 --> 01:35:13,981
case scenario and

3730
01:35:13,981 --> 01:35:15,481
so Um, I

3731
01:35:15,481 --> 01:35:17,082
kind of talked him into

3732
01:35:17,082 --> 01:35:18,492
it a little bit slowly,

3733
01:35:18,492 --> 01:35:20,031
um, little bits at a time.

3734
01:35:20,031 --> 01:35:21,201
Ellen, you probably know this

3735
01:35:21,201 --> 01:35:22,602
story. but there's a

3736
01:35:22,602 --> 01:35:24,162
tool in charting the life course tools

3737
01:35:24,162 --> 01:35:25,761
called a star chart.

3738
01:35:25,761 --> 01:35:27,201
And that star chart, you can put

3739
01:35:27,201 --> 01:35:28,681
a goal, you can put a problem, you

3740
01:35:28,681 --> 01:35:30,341
can put whatever in the middle of that chart,

3741
01:35:30,341 --> 01:35:31,641
and you look at all of those

3742
01:35:31,641 --> 01:35:33,031
natural supports that people

3743
01:35:33,031 --> 01:35:34,522
have, um,

3744
01:35:34,522 --> 01:35:36,082
access to, and you look at their

3745
01:35:36,082 --> 01:35:37,681
strengths, and you look at their assets

3746
01:35:37,681 --> 01:35:39,281
and their abilities.

3747
01:35:39,281 --> 01:35:40,707
And, um of Leighton's

3748
01:35:40,707 --> 01:35:42,026
strengths is he doesn't know a

3749
01:35:42,026 --> 01:35:43,826
stranger. He's not afraid to ask

3750
01:35:43,826 --> 01:35:45,227
questions. In

3751
01:35:45,227 --> 01:35:46,447
looking at another part of the

3752
01:35:46,447 --> 01:35:48,516
chart, it uses

3753
01:35:48,516 --> 01:35:50,266
technology. Leighton is profoundly

3754
01:35:50,266 --> 01:35:51,627
deaf. He uses

3755
01:35:51,627 --> 01:35:53,067
cochlear implants to listen

3756
01:35:53,067 --> 01:35:54,347
and talk and does very well with

3757
01:35:54,347 --> 01:35:56,026
that. his deafness

3758
01:35:56,026 --> 01:35:57,507
is caused by meningitis as

3759
01:35:57,507 --> 01:35:58,977
a baby, so we didn't start

3760
01:35:58,977 --> 01:36:00,427
out having a disability, but he

3761
01:36:00,427 --> 01:36:01,977
acquired a disability later in

3762
01:36:01,977 --> 01:36:03,466
life, in addition

3763
01:36:03,466 --> 01:36:04,987
to seizures. And

3764
01:36:04,987 --> 01:36:06,291
so,

3765
01:36:06,291 --> 01:36:07,772
Um, you know, as long as his

3766
01:36:07,772 --> 01:36:09,302
implants are charged, he's able to

3767
01:36:09,302 --> 01:36:10,742
communicate and, you know,

3768
01:36:10,742 --> 01:36:12,222
do, and the kid,

3769
01:36:12,222 --> 01:36:13,611
like all of our kids, if you guys

3770
01:36:13,611 --> 01:36:15,172
have kids, has cell

3771
01:36:15,172 --> 01:36:16,771
phone.

3772
01:36:16,771 --> 01:36:18,301
That is like a huge

3773
01:36:18,301 --> 01:36:19,931
resource for them. So Leighton uses

3774
01:36:19,931 --> 01:36:21,581
his cell phone in lots of different ways

3775
01:36:21,581 --> 01:36:22,711
and and lots of

3776
01:36:22,711 --> 01:36:24,422
communication. So

3777
01:36:24,422 --> 01:36:25,692
just looking at all those

3778
01:36:25,692 --> 01:36:27,162
pieces, I talked

3779
01:36:27,162 --> 01:36:28,502
my husband into it and I was like,

3780
01:36:28,502 --> 01:36:29,892
listen, we can prep

3781
01:36:29,892 --> 01:36:31,422
him. He has his

3782
01:36:31,422 --> 01:36:32,931
cell phone. he's not afraid

3783
01:36:32,931 --> 01:36:34,382
to ask for help. And

3784
01:36:34,382 --> 01:36:35,871
then the last thing that I proposed

3785
01:36:35,871 --> 01:36:37,211
to him, which I think is what won him

3786
01:36:37,211 --> 01:36:38,692
over is, you know,

3787
01:36:38,692 --> 01:36:40,172
Southwest Airlines, as well as

3788
01:36:40,172 --> 01:36:41,482
the others have, you know,

3789
01:36:41,482 --> 01:36:42,892
accommodations for people with

3790
01:36:42,892 --> 01:36:44,452
disabilities. So we

3791
01:36:44,452 --> 01:36:45,972
can, you know, go through

3792
01:36:45,972 --> 01:36:47,972
with them through security.

3793
01:36:47,972 --> 01:36:49,401
We can sit with him, he can

3794
01:36:49,401 --> 01:36:50,801
preboard the plane,

3795
01:36:50,801 --> 01:36:52,172
um, they will have somebody at the

3796
01:36:52,172 --> 01:36:53,602
gate, um, you know, to

3797
01:36:53,602 --> 01:36:55,292
help him access, which

3798
01:36:55,292 --> 01:36:56,211
they didn't this last

3799
01:36:56,211 --> 01:36:57,632
time. they got

3800
01:36:57,632 --> 01:36:58,991
a phone call from me,

3801
01:36:58,991 --> 01:37:00,472
but to help him

3802
01:37:00,472 --> 01:37:01,711
access and to find his

3803
01:37:01,711 --> 01:37:03,262
connecting flight and make sure that

3804
01:37:03,262 --> 01:37:04,711
he gets on that flight. And then on

3805
01:37:04,711 --> 01:37:06,262
the other end his grandparents would

3806
01:37:06,262 --> 01:37:07,662
be there to get him, you know, from the

3807
01:37:07,662 --> 01:37:09,061
airport, and he's

3808
01:37:09,061 --> 01:37:10,642
used to travelling. We love to

3809
01:37:10,642 --> 01:37:11,952
travel and so, you know,

3810
01:37:11,952 --> 01:37:13,461
any time we're at an airport we

3811
01:37:13,461 --> 01:37:15,281
did auditory verbal therapy.

3812
01:37:15,281 --> 01:37:16,882
Um, for him to listen and

3813
01:37:16,882 --> 01:37:18,301
talk at Hearts for Hearing.

3814
01:37:18,301 --> 01:37:19,632
And so I was

3815
01:37:19,632 --> 01:37:20,991
constantly the, the,

3816
01:37:20,991 --> 01:37:22,542
um, emce everywhere

3817
01:37:22,542 --> 01:37:23,952
we went as a mom. I'm just

3818
01:37:23,952 --> 01:37:25,472
like, explaining

3819
01:37:25,472 --> 01:37:27,111
everything, you know, talking him through

3820
01:37:27,111 --> 01:37:28,512
everything. So he's very comfortable in

3821
01:37:28,512 --> 01:37:29,952
that environment and

3822
01:37:29,952 --> 01:37:31,352
knows how to access that.

3823
01:37:31,352 --> 01:37:32,792
But when it that was

3824
01:37:32,792 --> 01:37:34,192
a goal he had, and I'm

3825
01:37:34,192 --> 01:37:35,871
like, we need to make this happen.

3826
01:37:35,871 --> 01:37:37,512
And Ellen recently did this with

3827
01:37:37,512 --> 01:37:38,912
William too, did you not? last

3828
01:37:38,912 --> 01:37:40,502
fall. So, Um,

3829
01:37:40,502 --> 01:37:41,982
you know, we want to give our kids

3830
01:37:41,982 --> 01:37:43,581
those opportunities and also

3831
01:37:43,581 --> 01:37:45,301
opportunities to fail

3832
01:37:45,301 --> 01:37:46,621
sometimes. We don't

3833
01:37:46,621 --> 01:37:48,181
always make the best choices

3834
01:37:48,181 --> 01:37:49,781
for ourselves, and we

3835
01:37:49,781 --> 01:37:51,252
learn from those choices. And

3836
01:37:51,252 --> 01:37:52,781
I think so many times with

3837
01:37:52,781 --> 01:37:54,621
individuals with disabilities,

3838
01:37:54,621 --> 01:37:55,822
we don't want them to

3839
01:37:55,822 --> 01:37:57,422
fail, and we

3840
01:37:57,422 --> 01:37:59,021
protect them so much that

3841
01:37:59,021 --> 01:38:00,502
we, they don't sometimes

3842
01:38:00,502 --> 01:38:02,181
learn those consequences

3843
01:38:02,181 --> 01:38:03,702
from those choices that they've

3844
01:38:03,702 --> 01:38:05,061
made. So,

3845
01:38:05,061 --> 01:38:06,502
um, that informed

3846
01:38:06,502 --> 01:38:07,662
decision making is really

3847
01:38:07,662 --> 01:38:08,741
important.

3848
01:38:08,741 --> 01:38:10,301
Um, Another

3849
01:38:10,301 --> 01:38:11,732
goal Leighton has and I'll let him

3850
01:38:11,732 --> 01:38:13,281
talk a little bit about, hey,

3851
01:38:13,281 --> 01:38:15,942
William.

3852
01:38:15,942 --> 01:38:17,292
I'll let him talk about

3853
01:38:17,292 --> 01:38:18,861
is, um, he wants

3854
01:38:18,861 --> 01:38:20,502
a girlfriend

3855
01:38:20,502 --> 01:38:22,521
as bad as he wants a job,

3856
01:38:22,521 --> 01:38:23,982
so >> more than he wants

3857
01:38:23,982 --> 01:38:25,621
a job.

3858
01:38:25,621 --> 01:38:27,181
>> well, probably maybe, maybe

3859
01:38:27,181 --> 01:38:28,672
ultimately I don't know he likes

3860
01:38:28,672 --> 01:38:30,181
he likes to work and have his money

3861
01:38:30,181 --> 01:38:33,861
too.

3862
01:38:33,861 --> 01:38:35,371
Um, but you know we

3863
01:38:35,371 --> 01:38:36,521
we try to provide him

3864
01:38:36,521 --> 01:38:38,042
opportunities, you know just

3865
01:38:38,042 --> 01:38:39,722
for socialization and

3866
01:38:39,722 --> 01:38:41,121
so um

3867
01:38:41,121 --> 01:38:42,401
Leighton, do you want to tell them

3868
01:38:42,401 --> 01:38:44,281
about um

3869
01:38:44,281 --> 01:38:45,602
some of the things that you've done

3870
01:38:45,602 --> 01:38:47,371
recently to try to find a

3871
01:38:47,371 --> 01:38:50,012
girlfriend?

3872
01:38:50,012 --> 01:38:51,692
You did the speed dating

3873
01:38:51,692 --> 01:38:53,632
thing.

3874
01:38:53,632 --> 01:38:58,132
>> Um,

3875
01:38:58,132 --> 01:38:59,602
that >> embarrass you?

3876
01:38:59,602 --> 01:39:00,871
Did I embarrass you? >> I can't

3877
01:39:00,871 --> 01:39:02,331
remember. >> Do you want >> me to

3878
01:39:02,331 --> 01:39:03,852
talk about it? Yeah, I can't

3879
01:39:03,852 --> 01:39:05,822
remember. OK.

3880
01:39:05,822 --> 01:39:07,121
>> Well, we, we try to

3881
01:39:07,121 --> 01:39:08,621
encourage, but we don't force

3882
01:39:08,621 --> 01:39:10,021
him to do these

3883
01:39:10,021 --> 01:39:11,102
things. But you know,

3884
01:39:11,102 --> 01:39:12,422
there's social

3885
01:39:12,422 --> 01:39:13,972
things that he can be involved

3886
01:39:13,972 --> 01:39:15,581
in. Um, he's

3887
01:39:15,581 --> 01:39:17,181
done some things at Wings,

3888
01:39:17,181 --> 01:39:19,021
um, decided

3889
01:39:19,021 --> 01:39:20,341
that wasn't necessarily for

3890
01:39:20,341 --> 01:39:21,861
him. He was socializing with

3891
01:39:21,861 --> 01:39:23,382
the volunteers, the

3892
01:39:23,382 --> 01:39:25,012
cute high school

3893
01:39:25,012 --> 01:39:26,491
college girl volunteers more than

3894
01:39:26,491 --> 01:39:27,781
he was socializing. So I'm

3895
01:39:27,781 --> 01:39:29,281
like, If you don't want to

3896
01:39:29,281 --> 01:39:30,762
do that, you don't have to do that.

3897
01:39:30,762 --> 01:39:32,371
Um, he recently did a

3898
01:39:32,371 --> 01:39:33,922
speed dating event at

3899
01:39:33,922 --> 01:39:35,151
Social Capital, which was an

3900
01:39:35,151 --> 01:39:36,602
inclusive speed

3901
01:39:36,602 --> 01:39:38,142
dating event. He got

3902
01:39:38,142 --> 01:39:40,202
a match and

3903
01:39:40,202 --> 01:39:41,672
we showed him like,

3904
01:39:41,672 --> 01:39:43,202
hey, you got this match, you

3905
01:39:43,202 --> 01:39:44,762
know, do you want to follow up with her?

3906
01:39:44,762 --> 01:39:46,241
I don't know yet. So

3907
01:39:46,241 --> 01:39:47,961
he hasn't followed up with that.

3908
01:39:47,961 --> 01:39:49,521
So um we're we're

3909
01:39:49,521 --> 01:39:51,162
just going to keep trying to encourage

3910
01:39:51,162 --> 01:39:52,642
that and let him take the

3911
01:39:52,642 --> 01:39:54,121
lead on that and we'll

3912
01:39:54,121 --> 01:39:55,722
be his Uber drivers for

3913
01:39:55,722 --> 01:39:56,922
any of those kinds of things,

3914
01:39:56,922 --> 01:39:58,252
but

3915
01:39:58,252 --> 01:39:59,752
>> I have a question. um,

3916
01:39:59,752 --> 01:40:01,232
Heather Leighton, thank you for

3917
01:40:01,232 --> 01:40:02,692
being here.

3918
01:40:02,692 --> 01:40:04,311
Heather, how would, and I know you're

3919
01:40:04,311 --> 01:40:05,431
still thinking about the

3920
01:40:05,431 --> 01:40:07,072
formal, but

3921
01:40:07,072 --> 01:40:08,392
like no one here knows the

3922
01:40:08,392 --> 01:40:09,831
charted lifespan. I

3923
01:40:09,831 --> 01:40:11,472
just wanna say

3924
01:40:11,472 --> 01:40:13,031
we all know that and they don't know the

3925
01:40:13,031 --> 01:40:14,472
star chart, but you are

3926
01:40:14,472 --> 01:40:16,072
the one that's putting that

3927
01:40:16,072 --> 01:40:17,672
you're the one that's putting

3928
01:40:17,672 --> 01:40:19,551
all those strengths

3929
01:40:19,551 --> 01:40:21,271
in there for him.

3930
01:40:21,271 --> 01:40:22,931
Leighton, since you

3931
01:40:22,931 --> 01:40:23,792
have all

3932
01:40:23,792 --> 01:40:25,392
that. You

3933
01:40:25,392 --> 01:40:26,871
know, um, you've given your

3934
01:40:26,871 --> 01:40:28,351
mom and she's raised you

3935
01:40:28,351 --> 01:40:29,991
to be so independent,

3936
01:40:29,991 --> 01:40:31,392
um, interdependence is,

3937
01:40:31,392 --> 01:40:32,991
is what we call it,

3938
01:40:32,991 --> 01:40:34,541
you know, maybe the star chart

3939
01:40:34,541 --> 01:40:35,952
would look different, Heather,

3940
01:40:35,952 --> 01:40:37,671
if Leighton was given

3941
01:40:37,671 --> 01:40:39,351
more of that formal,

3942
01:40:39,351 --> 01:40:40,952
um, and I know saying this

3943
01:40:40,952 --> 01:40:42,471
that Rod's gonna be mad at me,

3944
01:40:42,471 --> 01:40:43,791
his dad,

3945
01:40:43,791 --> 01:40:45,351
um, but, um, it

3946
01:40:45,351 --> 01:40:46,952
is that that

3947
01:40:46,952 --> 01:40:48,452
sort of tug

3948
01:40:48,452 --> 01:40:49,832
and pull that parents go through

3949
01:40:49,832 --> 01:40:51,311
when your kids are getting

3950
01:40:51,311 --> 01:40:52,882
older. Um,

3951
01:40:52,882 --> 01:40:54,322
and if you would have put a guardianship at

3952
01:40:54,322 --> 01:40:55,681
18,

3953
01:40:55,681 --> 01:40:57,202
Leighton may not

3954
01:40:57,202 --> 01:40:58,772
have been given those opportunities

3955
01:40:58,772 --> 01:41:00,491
to think more

3956
01:41:00,491 --> 01:41:03,082
independently.

3957
01:41:03,082 --> 01:41:04,541
thinking through the formal part

3958
01:41:04,541 --> 01:41:06,041
of supported decision making,

3959
01:41:06,041 --> 01:41:07,721
how would that help you

3960
01:41:07,721 --> 01:41:10,202
and Leighton?

3961
01:41:10,202 --> 01:41:12,342
>> So I think

3962
01:41:12,342 --> 01:41:13,902
You know, when I, I think we've

3963
01:41:13,902 --> 01:41:15,342
gotten better as a state

3964
01:41:15,342 --> 01:41:16,902
and as a, as a

3965
01:41:16,902 --> 01:41:18,462
society, but, um, you

3966
01:41:18,462 --> 01:41:19,822
know, I remember when he turned

3967
01:41:19,822 --> 01:41:21,262
18, 1 of

3968
01:41:21,262 --> 01:41:22,772
the first things people told

3969
01:41:22,772 --> 01:41:24,282
us within the school system

3970
01:41:24,282 --> 01:41:25,462
was, oh, you need to go get a

3971
01:41:25,462 --> 01:41:26,981
guardianship.

3972
01:41:26,981 --> 01:41:28,611
Um, and I'm like, I,

3973
01:41:28,611 --> 01:41:30,132
he, he doesn't need

3974
01:41:30,132 --> 01:41:31,522
a guardianship.

3975
01:41:31,522 --> 01:41:33,051
and so we, that's why we opted

3976
01:41:33,051 --> 01:41:35,291
for the power of attorney.

3977
01:41:35,291 --> 01:41:36,851
but in thinking about

3978
01:41:36,851 --> 01:41:38,652
supported decision making

3979
01:41:38,652 --> 01:41:40,012
and just having that

3980
01:41:40,012 --> 01:41:41,561
more formal and

3981
01:41:41,561 --> 01:41:43,332
more recognized

3982
01:41:43,332 --> 01:41:44,731
as

3983
01:41:44,731 --> 01:41:46,212
something in addition

3984
01:41:46,212 --> 01:41:47,882
to a power of attorney.

3985
01:41:47,882 --> 01:41:49,301
Um, if something were to

3986
01:41:49,301 --> 01:41:51,111
happen to my husband and I,

3987
01:41:51,111 --> 01:41:52,592
Leighton has great

3988
01:41:52,592 --> 01:41:54,192
supporters. Um, his sister

3989
01:41:54,192 --> 01:41:55,671
being one of them, his brother-in-law

3990
01:41:55,671 --> 01:41:57,072
being one of them,

3991
01:41:57,072 --> 01:41:58,712
neighbours that have known him and

3992
01:41:58,712 --> 01:42:00,311
grown up with him, my parents,

3993
01:42:00,311 --> 01:42:01,791
my sister, my

3994
01:42:01,791 --> 01:42:03,361
brother, you know, just extended

3995
01:42:03,361 --> 01:42:04,697
family. But

3996
01:42:04,697 --> 01:42:06,337
Normalizing that and making

3997
01:42:06,337 --> 01:42:07,817
sure that everybody is on the

3998
01:42:07,817 --> 01:42:09,056
same team, that's all

3999
01:42:09,056 --> 01:42:10,377
knowledgeable

4000
01:42:10,377 --> 01:42:11,817
about what

4001
01:42:11,817 --> 01:42:13,337
what he needs for his

4002
01:42:13,337 --> 01:42:14,496
supports when my husband and

4003
01:42:14,496 --> 01:42:16,017
I maybe aren't going to be

4004
01:42:16,017 --> 01:42:17,457
able to be there.

4005
01:42:17,457 --> 01:42:18,936
My biggest

4006
01:42:18,936 --> 01:42:20,337
fear for him is

4007
01:42:20,337 --> 01:42:21,907
that I'm going to cry.

4008
01:42:21,907 --> 01:42:23,291
Um, Is that

4009
01:42:23,291 --> 01:42:24,731
someone, if something happened

4010
01:42:24,731 --> 01:42:26,291
to us and someone

4011
01:42:26,291 --> 01:42:27,971
were to come in and just

4012
01:42:27,971 --> 01:42:29,411
automatically

4013
01:42:29,411 --> 01:42:30,851
just put him in a group

4014
01:42:30,851 --> 01:42:32,332
home or in a setting

4015
01:42:32,332 --> 01:42:33,811
where he's just going to

4016
01:42:33,811 --> 01:42:35,291
deteriorate

4017
01:42:35,291 --> 01:42:36,652
and not have

4018
01:42:36,652 --> 01:42:38,332
choices and not have

4019
01:42:38,332 --> 01:42:39,452
options and not have those

4020
01:42:39,452 --> 01:42:41,012
freedoms, um, and

4021
01:42:41,012 --> 01:42:42,611
a voice in his care and

4022
01:42:42,611 --> 01:42:43,811
where he lives and what he

4023
01:42:43,811 --> 01:42:45,532
does, um,

4024
01:42:45,532 --> 01:42:46,332
would be

4025
01:42:46,332 --> 01:42:47,851
devastating.

4026
01:42:47,851 --> 01:42:49,371
So I feel that a

4027
01:42:49,371 --> 01:42:50,371
more formalized

4028
01:42:50,371 --> 01:42:51,507
support Aci

4029
01:42:51,507 --> 01:42:53,267
making option.

4030
01:42:53,267 --> 01:42:54,707
Again, I go back to that

4031
01:42:54,707 --> 01:42:56,106
safety net. It's just

4032
01:42:56,106 --> 01:42:57,707
another safety net

4033
01:42:57,707 --> 01:42:59,226
for families that

4034
01:42:59,226 --> 01:43:00,387
is a great

4035
01:43:00,387 --> 01:43:01,786
alternative to that

4036
01:43:01,786 --> 01:43:03,947
full-fledged guardianship.

4037
01:43:03,947 --> 01:43:05,387
Um, but also, I,

4038
01:43:05,387 --> 01:43:06,976
in my mind, it kind of

4039
01:43:06,976 --> 01:43:08,627
accentuates and it's just

4040
01:43:08,627 --> 01:43:10,067
another piece,

4041
01:43:10,067 --> 01:43:11,986
um, for POA.

4042
01:43:11,986 --> 01:43:13,507
Um, and I, I'm not

4043
01:43:13,507 --> 01:43:14,986
legal. I don't know how all

4044
01:43:14,986 --> 01:43:16,387
that works together. But in

4045
01:43:16,387 --> 01:43:17,986
my mind, that's how I see it as a

4046
01:43:17,986 --> 01:43:19,621
mom.

4047
01:43:19,621 --> 01:43:21,181
>> So even formalizing it maybe

4048
01:43:21,181 --> 01:43:22,782
the conversation would

4049
01:43:22,782 --> 01:43:24,421
sooner would be instead of just talking

4050
01:43:24,421 --> 01:43:25,902
about guardianship

4051
01:43:25,902 --> 01:43:27,421
but talking about supported decision

4052
01:43:27,421 --> 01:43:29,022
making with families

4053
01:43:29,022 --> 01:43:30,342
earlier

4054
01:43:30,342 --> 01:43:32,131
and giving that

4055
01:43:32,131 --> 01:43:33,730
understanding about the decision making a person

4056
01:43:33,730 --> 01:43:35,300
with a disability can

4057
01:43:35,300 --> 01:43:36,720
have would

4058
01:43:36,720 --> 01:43:38,100
um and that

4059
01:43:38,100 --> 01:43:39,541
maybe formalizing it

4060
01:43:39,541 --> 01:43:41,060
I'm assuming also

4061
01:43:41,060 --> 01:43:42,621
would mean that other people would

4062
01:43:42,621 --> 01:43:44,100
understand what that was if they don't have a child

4063
01:43:44,100 --> 01:43:45,660
with a disability and

4064
01:43:45,660 --> 01:43:47,301
about how those decisions are

4065
01:43:47,301 --> 01:43:48,750
supported even if

4066
01:43:48,750 --> 01:43:51,301
they have a disability.

4067
01:43:51,301 --> 01:43:52,301
>> I agree with

4068
01:43:52,301 --> 01:43:54,121
that.

4069
01:43:54,121 --> 01:43:55,361
I, I'm not one

4070
01:43:55,361 --> 01:43:56,881
to, I, I don't like

4071
01:43:56,881 --> 01:43:58,400
paperwork.

4072
01:43:58,400 --> 01:43:59,961
I don't like, you know,

4073
01:43:59,961 --> 01:44:01,521
um, big government

4074
01:44:01,521 --> 01:44:03,240
and, you know, all those things,

4075
01:44:03,240 --> 01:44:04,670
but um,

4076
01:44:04,670 --> 01:44:06,080
I just feel like

4077
01:44:06,080 --> 01:44:07,600
this could be done in a way

4078
01:44:07,600 --> 01:44:09,470
that would be

4079
01:44:09,470 --> 01:44:10,961
again, kind of that safety

4080
01:44:10,961 --> 01:44:12,560
net, um

4081
01:44:12,560 --> 01:44:13,321
and an

4082
01:44:13,321 --> 01:44:14,961
option

4083
01:44:14,961 --> 01:44:16,441
for families and individuals

4084
01:44:16,441 --> 01:44:18,650
to be able to utilize.

4085
01:44:18,650 --> 01:44:20,060
>> Thank you, Leighton.

4086
01:44:20,060 --> 01:44:21,490
I'm How would

4087
01:44:21,490 --> 01:44:23,091
you feel? Like, do you like,

4088
01:44:23,091 --> 01:44:24,630
do you like it when

4089
01:44:24,630 --> 01:44:26,191
People listen to you and support

4090
01:44:26,191 --> 01:44:28,191
your decisions.

4091
01:44:28,191 --> 01:44:29,551
So how did that make you

4092
01:44:29,551 --> 01:44:31,231
feel when after talking

4093
01:44:31,231 --> 01:44:32,551
about wanting to fly

4094
01:44:32,551 --> 01:44:34,390
alone for a very long time

4095
01:44:34,390 --> 01:44:35,790
that your mom and dad both

4096
01:44:35,790 --> 01:44:37,010
supported your decision in doing

4097
01:44:37,010 --> 01:44:38,841
that?

4098
01:44:38,841 --> 01:44:40,320
Uh, >> how did that make

4099
01:44:40,320 --> 01:44:41,801
you feel to be able to fly by

4100
01:44:41,801 --> 01:44:43,320
yourself? >> I

4101
01:44:43,320 --> 01:44:44,911
just like wine

4102
01:44:44,911 --> 01:44:45,400
by

4103
01:44:45,400 --> 01:44:47,701
myself.

4104
01:44:47,701 --> 01:44:49,301
>> You've taken several trips now,

4105
01:44:49,301 --> 01:44:50,101
haven't you?

4106
01:44:50,101 --> 01:44:52,570
Yeah.

4107
01:44:52,570 --> 01:44:54,010
Is there anything else that you guys

4108
01:44:54,010 --> 01:44:55,491
would like to say before I move on to

4109
01:44:55,491 --> 01:44:57,131
those that Oklahoma

4110
01:44:57,131 --> 01:44:59,171
State University students?

4111
01:44:59,171 --> 01:45:01,161
>> Um,

4112
01:45:01,161 --> 01:45:02,760
Oh. >> No, you

4113
01:45:02,760 --> 01:45:04,360
still want to live by yourself someday?

4114
01:45:04,360 --> 01:45:05,760
Yeah, you're still working toward

4115
01:45:05,760 --> 01:45:07,680
that. >> Mhm, yeah,

4116
01:45:07,680 --> 01:45:08,960
yeah, my friend

4117
01:45:08,960 --> 01:45:10,460
keeps telling texting

4118
01:45:10,460 --> 01:45:12,381
me, so

4119
01:45:12,381 --> 01:45:13,921
thanks for that. >> You

4120
01:45:13,921 --> 01:45:15,400
have a friend that, yeah, that wants

4121
01:45:15,400 --> 01:45:17,201
to do that too, don't you?

4122
01:45:17,201 --> 01:45:19,481
>> Yeah.

4123
01:45:19,481 --> 01:45:20,650
Anyone have any other

4124
01:45:20,650 --> 01:45:22,320
questions? OK.

4125
01:45:22,320 --> 01:45:23,720
thank you so much for

4126
01:45:23,720 --> 01:45:24,941
being here. I appreciate

4127
01:45:24,941 --> 01:45:28,621
it.

4128
01:45:28,621 --> 01:45:30,021
Uh, next, um,

4129
01:45:30,021 --> 01:45:31,580
there's, uh, I'd like

4130
01:45:31,580 --> 01:45:32,871
to, uh,

4131
01:45:32,871 --> 01:45:34,220
I asked, uh, Doctor

4132
01:45:34,220 --> 01:45:35,901
Emily Tucker from

4133
01:45:35,901 --> 01:45:37,420
Opportunity Orange Scholars to come. She

4134
01:45:37,420 --> 01:45:38,851
was unable to be here today, but

4135
01:45:38,851 --> 01:45:40,420
she asked me to read

4136
01:45:40,420 --> 01:45:41,980
something, um,

4137
01:45:41,980 --> 01:45:43,340
about Opportunity Orange Scholars,

4138
01:45:43,340 --> 01:45:44,700
and they do a

4139
01:45:44,700 --> 01:45:46,060
circle, um,

4140
01:45:46,060 --> 01:45:47,541
of support and so that's,

4141
01:45:47,541 --> 01:45:49,181
uh, she asked

4142
01:45:49,181 --> 01:45:50,780
me to read this. So, uh,

4143
01:45:50,780 --> 01:45:52,360
before we get to our next.

4144
01:45:52,360 --> 01:45:54,280
Uh participants

4145
01:45:54,280 --> 01:45:55,961
here, um,

4146
01:45:55,961 --> 01:45:57,310
opportunity and scholars is a two year

4147
01:45:57,310 --> 01:45:58,640
academic certificate program at

4148
01:45:58,640 --> 01:46:00,321
Oklahoma State University

4149
01:46:00,321 --> 01:46:01,601
for students with intellectual

4150
01:46:01,601 --> 01:46:03,110
disabilities. Students

4151
01:46:03,110 --> 01:46:04,390
have a range of guardianship

4152
01:46:04,390 --> 01:46:05,521
arrangements from no

4153
01:46:05,521 --> 01:46:06,911
guardianship to

4154
01:46:06,911 --> 01:46:08,120
partial or full

4155
01:46:08,120 --> 01:46:09,670
guardianship. Like

4156
01:46:09,670 --> 01:46:11,241
all young adults, OOS

4157
01:46:11,241 --> 01:46:12,700
students make decisions every day

4158
01:46:12,700 --> 01:46:13,950
about school, work,

4159
01:46:13,950 --> 01:46:15,351
relationships, where they

4160
01:46:15,351 --> 01:46:16,911
wanna live and what they want their

4161
01:46:16,911 --> 01:46:18,470
future to look like. They

4162
01:46:18,470 --> 01:46:19,991
may need advice from family,

4163
01:46:19,991 --> 01:46:21,271
friends, professors and

4164
01:46:21,271 --> 01:46:22,830
mentors just as any

4165
01:46:22,830 --> 01:46:24,151
of us did at that age.

4166
01:46:24,151 --> 01:46:25,551
Needing support does not mean

4167
01:46:25,551 --> 01:46:27,110
someone is unable to make

4168
01:46:27,110 --> 01:46:28,870
decisions. Supported

4169
01:46:28,870 --> 01:46:30,390
decision making allows people with

4170
01:46:30,390 --> 01:46:31,911
intellectual disabilities to remain

4171
01:46:31,911 --> 01:46:33,791
at the center of decisions

4172
01:46:33,791 --> 01:46:35,351
about their own lives while

4173
01:46:35,351 --> 01:46:36,791
receiving the guidance and support

4174
01:46:36,791 --> 01:46:38,470
they need. OOS

4175
01:46:38,470 --> 01:46:39,991
puts this into practice through its circle

4176
01:46:39,991 --> 01:46:41,541
of support meetings. Each

4177
01:46:41,541 --> 01:46:42,551
student chooses who

4178
01:46:42,551 --> 01:46:44,351
participates, identifies

4179
01:46:44,351 --> 01:46:45,830
what they want to discuss, and leads

4180
01:46:45,830 --> 01:46:47,131
the meeting. Family,

4181
01:46:47,131 --> 01:46:48,711
faculty, mentors, and other provide

4182
01:46:48,711 --> 01:46:50,191
guidance, but the student

4183
01:46:50,191 --> 01:46:51,580
remains at the center of the

4184
01:46:51,580 --> 01:46:53,110
conversation. That is the heart of

4185
01:46:53,110 --> 01:46:54,560
supported decision making. It does

4186
01:46:54,560 --> 01:46:56,271
not mean making difficult

4187
01:46:56,271 --> 01:46:57,840
decisions alone. It

4188
01:46:57,840 --> 01:46:59,360
means having support without

4189
01:46:59,360 --> 01:47:00,840
automatically giving up the right

4190
01:47:00,840 --> 01:47:02,241
to make choices,

4191
01:47:02,241 --> 01:47:03,720
learn from mistakes, grow and

4192
01:47:03,720 --> 01:47:05,280
build a life based on your own

4193
01:47:05,280 --> 01:47:07,080
goals and preferences.

4194
01:47:07,080 --> 01:47:08,601
So thank you so much, opportunity orange

4195
01:47:08,601 --> 01:47:10,071
scholars students.

4196
01:47:10,071 --> 01:47:11,601
If you could, could

4197
01:47:11,601 --> 01:47:12,601
you give us your

4198
01:47:12,601 --> 01:47:14,330
name and

4199
01:47:14,330 --> 01:47:15,941
uh.

4200
01:47:15,941 --> 01:47:17,500
And um then

4201
01:47:17,500 --> 01:47:19,181
tell us how long you've been at Oklahoma

4202
01:47:19,181 --> 01:47:21,330
State University.

4203
01:47:21,330 --> 01:47:22,011
>> OK,

4204
01:47:22,011 --> 01:47:23,810
um

4205
01:47:23,810 --> 01:47:25,870
Yes I'll go first.

4206
01:47:25,870 --> 01:47:27,241
OK, I'm, I'm

4207
01:47:27,241 --> 01:47:28,851
Jeffrey. I'm Jeffrey

4208
01:47:28,851 --> 01:47:30,411
Harter and

4209
01:47:30,411 --> 01:47:32,110
I've been here for now a year

4210
01:47:32,110 --> 01:47:32,970
and this is my last

4211
01:47:32,970 --> 01:47:38,140
year.

4212
01:47:38,140 --> 01:47:40,620
>> OK.

4213
01:47:40,620 --> 01:47:45,071
>> I

4214
01:47:45,071 --> 01:47:46,511
I, I

4215
01:47:46,511 --> 01:47:46,800
am

4216
01:47:46,800 --> 01:47:49,270
William

4217
01:47:49,270 --> 01:47:49,780
uh

4218
01:47:49,780 --> 01:47:52,081
Hefner.

4219
01:47:52,081 --> 01:47:53,520
I,

4220
01:47:53,520 --> 01:47:57,870
uh

4221
01:47:57,870 --> 01:47:59,150
Um,

4222
01:47:59,150 --> 01:48:01,451
I

4223
01:48:01,451 --> 01:48:02,411
I can

4224
01:48:02,411 --> 01:48:08,231
hear.

4225
01:48:08,231 --> 01:48:09,511
>> Thank you so much for being

4226
01:48:09,511 --> 01:48:11,191
here. I have a few

4227
01:48:11,191 --> 01:48:12,671
questions to ask. Um,

4228
01:48:12,671 --> 01:48:14,030
number one, do you like being at

4229
01:48:14,030 --> 01:48:15,111
Oklahoma State

4230
01:48:15,111 --> 01:48:16,851
University?

4231
01:48:16,851 --> 01:48:17,680
>> Yes, yeah,

4232
01:48:17,680 --> 01:48:19,210
yeah. >> How

4233
01:48:19,210 --> 01:48:20,810
was that game last Saturday

4234
01:48:20,810 --> 01:48:21,791
night?

4235
01:48:21,791 --> 01:48:23,550
>> It

4236
01:48:23,550 --> 01:48:28,921
was

4237
01:48:28,921 --> 01:48:29,720
one of

4238
01:48:29,720 --> 01:48:31,340
the

4239
01:48:31,340 --> 01:48:32,611
best it

4240
01:48:32,611 --> 01:48:37,060
was

4241
01:48:37,060 --> 01:48:38,460
>> Oh >> good. >> I'm glad you

4242
01:48:38,460 --> 01:48:40,141
guys enjoyed yourselves.

4243
01:48:40,141 --> 01:48:41,881
Um. So

4244
01:48:41,881 --> 01:48:43,520
tell me, um,

4245
01:48:43,520 --> 01:48:45,150
can you

4246
01:48:45,150 --> 01:48:46,601
explain what circle of

4247
01:48:46,601 --> 01:48:47,881
support means to

4248
01:48:47,881 --> 01:48:49,661
you?

4249
01:48:49,661 --> 01:48:51,081
>> Um, I

4250
01:48:51,081 --> 01:48:52,641
think circle support

4251
01:48:52,641 --> 01:48:54,041
means this, I

4252
01:48:54,041 --> 01:48:56,090
think.

4253
01:48:56,090 --> 01:48:57,650
How would you describe it, William kind

4254
01:48:57,650 --> 01:48:59,210
of just like just having

4255
01:48:59,210 --> 01:49:00,731
some you know a lot of people

4256
01:49:00,731 --> 01:49:02,451
there to help you,

4257
01:49:02,451 --> 01:49:03,891
yeah, so

4258
01:49:03,891 --> 01:49:05,451
yeah, there's a lot of people there to help

4259
01:49:05,451 --> 01:49:06,970
you like your like for

4260
01:49:06,970 --> 01:49:07,810
example, your

4261
01:49:07,810 --> 01:49:09,210
parents,

4262
01:49:09,210 --> 01:49:10,490
friends, guardians,

4263
01:49:10,490 --> 01:49:11,851
who you wanna call

4264
01:49:11,851 --> 01:49:13,331
them and

4265
01:49:13,331 --> 01:49:14,770
they're just there to help you in

4266
01:49:14,770 --> 01:49:15,291
whatever you

4267
01:49:15,291 --> 01:49:18,911
need.

4268
01:49:18,911 --> 01:49:20,270
>> So, so do

4269
01:49:20,270 --> 01:49:21,661
you decide who attends the

4270
01:49:21,661 --> 01:49:23,150
meetings or does someone else pick

4271
01:49:23,150 --> 01:49:24,750
those? >> Yes, we

4272
01:49:24,750 --> 01:49:26,391
decide, um, well,

4273
01:49:26,391 --> 01:49:28,030
me or William decide who

4274
01:49:28,030 --> 01:49:29,030
gets to come to our

4275
01:49:29,030 --> 01:49:32,930
meetings.

4276
01:49:32,930 --> 01:49:33,930
>> So,

4277
01:49:33,930 --> 01:49:35,370
um,

4278
01:49:35,370 --> 01:49:36,291
do either of you have a

4279
01:49:36,291 --> 01:49:37,680
guardian?

4280
01:49:37,680 --> 01:49:39,321
>> Uh, no,

4281
01:49:39,321 --> 01:49:40,720
>> no. We,

4282
01:49:40,720 --> 01:49:42,081
I'm, I, I

4283
01:49:42,081 --> 01:49:43,201
have the power of

4284
01:49:43,201 --> 01:49:44,280
attorney

4285
01:49:44,280 --> 01:49:51,081
thing.

4286
01:49:51,081 --> 01:49:53,340
>> Who

4287
01:49:53,340 --> 01:49:54,900
>> Have you, have you talked to your

4288
01:49:54,900 --> 01:49:56,500
parents about guardianship,

4289
01:49:56,500 --> 01:49:57,541
Jeffrey, have you talked to your

4290
01:49:57,541 --> 01:49:58,581
parents?

4291
01:49:58,581 --> 01:49:59,861
>> Um,

4292
01:49:59,861 --> 01:50:01,300
yes, um, a

4293
01:50:01,300 --> 01:50:02,680
little bit. I don't talk too

4294
01:50:02,680 --> 01:50:04,220
much about it very much

4295
01:50:04,220 --> 01:50:05,701
because we don't really like

4296
01:50:05,701 --> 01:50:07,261
talking about it because it can

4297
01:50:07,261 --> 01:50:08,821
just creates an argument in the

4298
01:50:08,821 --> 01:50:09,500
family a little

4299
01:50:09,500 --> 01:50:11,861
bit.

4300
01:50:11,861 --> 01:50:13,381
>> How about you, William? have you talked

4301
01:50:13,381 --> 01:50:14,861
to your parent

4302
01:50:14,861 --> 01:50:16,650
about guardianship?

4303
01:50:16,650 --> 01:50:19,481
Uh-huh.

4304
01:50:19,481 --> 01:50:21,391
How does, how do those

4305
01:50:21,391 --> 01:50:23,101
conversations go?

4306
01:50:23,101 --> 01:50:24,620
>> Uh,

4307
01:50:24,620 --> 01:50:27,150
not

4308
01:50:27,150 --> 01:50:29,370
because

4309
01:50:29,370 --> 01:50:32,030
cause

4310
01:50:32,030 --> 01:50:35,511
And

4311
01:50:35,511 --> 01:50:39,220
No

4312
01:50:39,220 --> 01:50:41,111
all of

4313
01:50:41,111 --> 01:50:42,750
Play

4314
01:50:42,750 --> 01:50:47,240
lot

4315
01:50:47,240 --> 01:50:48,611
>> I'm really afraid to ask what that

4316
01:50:48,611 --> 01:50:49,270
three-letter word

4317
01:50:49,270 --> 01:50:52,840
is.

4318
01:50:52,840 --> 01:50:54,840
What's the three-letter word?

4319
01:50:54,840 --> 01:51:05,240
>> Uh

4320
01:51:05,240 --> 01:51:06,831
>> Oh OK so

4321
01:51:06,831 --> 01:51:08,321
when we talk about guardianship

4322
01:51:08,321 --> 01:51:09,800
you mean when you and

4323
01:51:09,800 --> 01:51:11,481
I talk about guardianship

4324
01:51:11,481 --> 01:51:13,201
they're uncomfortable. I,

4325
01:51:13,201 --> 01:51:15,201
I think it's uncomfortable

4326
01:51:15,201 --> 01:51:16,560
for me with

4327
01:51:16,560 --> 01:51:18,560
you because um

4328
01:51:18,560 --> 01:51:20,000
sometimes we agree

4329
01:51:20,000 --> 01:51:21,441
and sometimes we disagree would

4330
01:51:21,441 --> 01:51:22,840
you agree with that?

4331
01:51:22,840 --> 01:51:24,081
Uh-huh.

4332
01:51:24,081 --> 01:51:25,840
OK and

4333
01:51:25,840 --> 01:51:27,161
for you Jeffrey

4334
01:51:27,161 --> 01:51:28,201
it's is

4335
01:51:28,201 --> 01:51:29,720
your your

4336
01:51:29,720 --> 01:51:31,201
parents are wanting to talk

4337
01:51:31,201 --> 01:51:32,560
about guardianship and are

4338
01:51:32,560 --> 01:51:33,921
you wanting guardianship

4339
01:51:33,921 --> 01:51:35,520
or. >> Uh,

4340
01:51:35,520 --> 01:51:36,881
no, no,

4341
01:51:36,881 --> 01:51:38,280
>> and, and why wouldn't, why

4342
01:51:38,280 --> 01:51:40,161
wouldn't you want guardianship,

4343
01:51:40,161 --> 01:51:41,680
>> um, because I feel like I

4344
01:51:41,680 --> 01:51:43,081
can do stuff for

4345
01:51:43,081 --> 01:51:44,321
myself and I feel

4346
01:51:44,321 --> 01:51:45,691
like

4347
01:51:45,691 --> 01:51:47,210
I can make my own

4348
01:51:47,210 --> 01:51:48,090
choices for

4349
01:51:48,090 --> 01:51:49,750
myself.

4350
01:51:49,750 --> 01:51:51,231
And

4351
01:51:51,231 --> 01:51:52,750
and I just, I

4352
01:51:52,750 --> 01:51:54,071
feel like I can just take care of

4353
01:51:54,071 --> 01:51:55,740
myself.

4354
01:51:55,740 --> 01:51:57,300
better than someone who can take care of

4355
01:51:57,300 --> 01:51:59,920
me.

4356
01:51:59,920 --> 01:52:01,360
>> William, how about you? Do

4357
01:52:01,360 --> 01:52:02,881
you want, do you think

4358
01:52:02,881 --> 01:52:04,560
a guardianship would be appropriate

4359
01:52:04,560 --> 01:52:05,321
for you

4360
01:52:05,321 --> 01:52:08,810
and

4361
01:52:08,810 --> 01:52:09,831
>> Um

4362
01:52:09,831 --> 01:52:11,391
now >> Why

4363
01:52:11,391 --> 01:52:13,081
is that? Why don't you think a guardianship

4364
01:52:13,081 --> 01:52:13,850
is appropriate for

4365
01:52:13,850 --> 01:52:19,021
you?

4366
01:52:19,021 --> 01:52:20,261
>> I don't

4367
01:52:20,261 --> 01:52:21,581
think it

4368
01:52:21,581 --> 01:52:23,500
is appropriate

4369
01:52:23,500 --> 01:52:23,781
for

4370
01:52:23,781 --> 01:52:27,581
me.

4371
01:52:27,581 --> 01:52:28,961
I

4372
01:52:28,961 --> 01:52:31,430
wouldn't

4373
01:52:31,430 --> 01:52:33,701
I

4374
01:52:33,701 --> 01:52:35,381
Like be able

4375
01:52:35,381 --> 01:52:37,600
to

4376
01:52:37,600 --> 01:52:39,521
Travel

4377
01:52:39,521 --> 01:52:41,160
He would

4378
01:52:41,160 --> 01:52:42,240
always have to take

4379
01:52:42,240 --> 01:52:43,800
someone

4380
01:52:43,800 --> 01:52:45,091
with

4381
01:52:45,091 --> 01:52:47,930
You

4382
01:52:47,930 --> 01:52:48,381
you

4383
01:52:48,381 --> 01:52:50,600
wouldn't

4384
01:52:50,600 --> 01:52:52,441
Like make your

4385
01:52:52,441 --> 01:52:53,281
own

4386
01:52:53,281 --> 01:52:55,040
decisions,

4387
01:52:55,040 --> 01:52:55,961
they would have

4388
01:52:55,961 --> 01:52:57,401
to make

4389
01:52:57,401 --> 01:52:59,471
the decisions.

4390
01:52:59,471 --> 01:53:00,951
Oh

4391
01:53:00,951 --> 01:53:02,670
you

4392
01:53:02,670 --> 01:53:04,420
and

4393
01:53:04,420 --> 01:53:05,980
that

4394
01:53:05,980 --> 01:53:10,531
is

4395
01:53:10,531 --> 01:53:11,901
>> Also why I do not

4396
01:53:11,901 --> 01:53:13,091
want

4397
01:53:13,091 --> 01:53:14,160
A

4398
01:53:14,160 --> 01:53:15,730
audience

4399
01:53:15,730 --> 01:53:18,360
because

4400
01:53:18,360 --> 01:53:21,910
Uh

4401
01:53:21,910 --> 01:53:25,860
I

4402
01:53:25,860 --> 01:53:28,761
like

4403
01:53:28,761 --> 01:53:30,631
Uh,

4404
01:53:30,631 --> 01:53:32,941
Being my

4405
01:53:32,941 --> 01:53:35,920
own

4406
01:53:35,920 --> 01:53:38,381
guardian d

4407
01:53:38,381 --> 01:53:39,571
I can

4408
01:53:39,571 --> 01:53:43,071
make

4409
01:53:43,071 --> 01:53:47,100
>> it's

4410
01:53:47,100 --> 01:53:49,841
And

4411
01:53:49,841 --> 01:53:51,370
>> OK, well, thank you. I, I'm

4412
01:53:51,370 --> 01:53:53,011
sorry to cut you off, but I wanted

4413
01:53:53,011 --> 01:53:54,651
to ask, like,

4414
01:53:54,651 --> 01:53:55,730
are there some

4415
01:53:55,730 --> 01:53:56,930
decisions

4416
01:53:56,930 --> 01:53:58,451
that you would like

4417
01:53:58,451 --> 01:54:00,600
help with?

4418
01:54:00,600 --> 01:54:02,170
>> Oh yeah, yeah, >> yeah,

4419
01:54:02,170 --> 01:54:03,211
yeah, >> yeah,

4420
01:54:03,211 --> 01:54:06,151
>> yeah.

4421
01:54:06,151 --> 01:54:07,550
>> How about you, Jeffrey? Is there

4422
01:54:07,550 --> 01:54:09,151
some decisions you would like to have help

4423
01:54:09,151 --> 01:54:10,511
with?

4424
01:54:10,511 --> 01:54:11,310
>> Some, but not

4425
01:54:11,310 --> 01:54:13,011
many.

4426
01:54:13,011 --> 01:54:14,651
But nothing that requires a guardian,

4427
01:54:14,651 --> 01:54:15,021
I don't

4428
01:54:15,021 --> 01:54:17,691
think.

4429
01:54:17,691 --> 01:54:19,250
>> I, I'll tell you, you know, I,

4430
01:54:19,250 --> 01:54:20,841
I like getting, I like

4431
01:54:20,841 --> 01:54:22,451
asking for help, um,

4432
01:54:22,451 --> 01:54:23,810
and so that's sometimes what

4433
01:54:23,810 --> 01:54:25,250
that, that, that

4434
01:54:25,250 --> 01:54:26,651
looks like to that

4435
01:54:26,651 --> 01:54:28,410
informal way of getting

4436
01:54:28,410 --> 01:54:29,930
help, um, is

4437
01:54:29,930 --> 01:54:31,651
and support from other people,

4438
01:54:31,651 --> 01:54:33,250
um, what, what would

4439
01:54:33,250 --> 01:54:34,691
be something that you

4440
01:54:34,691 --> 01:54:36,410
would think you

4441
01:54:36,410 --> 01:54:37,850
both mentioned that you have a power

4442
01:54:37,850 --> 01:54:39,331
of attorney is there

4443
01:54:39,331 --> 01:54:40,730
something that especially in

4444
01:54:40,730 --> 01:54:42,091
circle of support that you

4445
01:54:42,091 --> 01:54:43,691
counted on the

4446
01:54:43,691 --> 01:54:45,180
support of the people to be in that

4447
01:54:45,180 --> 01:54:46,870
room to help you?

4448
01:54:46,870 --> 01:54:48,881
Is there something specific?

4449
01:54:48,881 --> 01:54:49,971
>> Mm,

4450
01:54:49,971 --> 01:54:51,471
just not

4451
01:54:51,471 --> 01:54:52,990
really. How about you,

4452
01:54:52,990 --> 01:54:54,350
William? I can't think

4453
01:54:54,350 --> 01:54:55,430
of anything that

4454
01:54:55,430 --> 01:54:56,881
would That,

4455
01:54:56,881 --> 01:54:58,321
that, that helped me

4456
01:54:58,321 --> 01:54:59,721
that I really needed specifically

4457
01:54:59,721 --> 01:55:01,979
needed help with.

4458
01:55:01,979 --> 01:55:05,919
>> Uh

4459
01:55:05,919 --> 01:55:07,100
That's not for

4460
01:55:07,100 --> 01:55:08,079
me.

4461
01:55:08,079 --> 01:55:09,739
>> No. >> But

4462
01:55:09,739 --> 01:55:11,220
having those, well, but

4463
01:55:11,220 --> 01:55:12,820
having those people in that circle

4464
01:55:12,820 --> 01:55:14,250
of support, do you count

4465
01:55:14,250 --> 01:55:16,580
on them?

4466
01:55:16,580 --> 01:55:18,369
>> I mean we ask

4467
01:55:18,369 --> 01:55:19,939
questions to him and maybe ask him

4468
01:55:19,939 --> 01:55:21,359
for an opinion, but other than

4469
01:55:21,359 --> 01:55:22,839
that,

4470
01:55:22,839 --> 01:55:24,119
we can't just make our own

4471
01:55:24,119 --> 01:55:27,490
decisions.

4472
01:55:27,490 --> 01:55:29,289
>> I, I like that. So you're

4473
01:55:29,289 --> 01:55:30,530
asking for their

4474
01:55:30,530 --> 01:55:32,089
opinions and sometimes

4475
01:55:32,089 --> 01:55:33,880
you go with their opinions

4476
01:55:33,880 --> 01:55:35,210
and sometimes maybe you

4477
01:55:35,210 --> 01:55:36,589
don't, correct?

4478
01:55:36,589 --> 01:55:39,799
Correct.

4479
01:55:39,799 --> 01:55:41,220
So let's see William

4480
01:55:41,220 --> 01:55:43,049
um if you

4481
01:55:43,049 --> 01:55:44,679
um had a circle

4482
01:55:44,679 --> 01:55:46,159
of support away

4483
01:55:46,159 --> 01:55:47,639
from college and they called

4484
01:55:47,639 --> 01:55:48,799
it supported decision

4485
01:55:48,799 --> 01:55:50,240
making do you

4486
01:55:50,240 --> 01:55:51,519
have an idea of some

4487
01:55:51,519 --> 01:55:53,479
people that you would

4488
01:55:53,479 --> 01:55:55,010
maybe put in that

4489
01:55:55,010 --> 01:55:56,519
circle of support outside of

4490
01:55:56,519 --> 01:55:58,080
college that could help

4491
01:55:58,080 --> 01:55:59,280
you if you lived by

4492
01:55:59,280 --> 01:56:01,860
yourself?

4493
01:56:01,860 --> 01:56:03,170
>> Oh yeah yeah

4494
01:56:03,170 --> 01:56:04,729
yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah

4495
01:56:04,729 --> 01:56:08,100
yeah.

4496
01:56:08,100 --> 01:56:11,259
Uh,

4497
01:56:11,259 --> 01:56:12,060
I would

4498
01:56:12,060 --> 01:56:14,759
have

4499
01:56:14,759 --> 01:56:18,759
Uh

4500
01:56:18,759 --> 01:56:19,630
I would

4501
01:56:19,630 --> 01:56:21,610
have

4502
01:56:21,610 --> 01:56:26,339
Uh

4503
01:56:26,339 --> 01:56:38,839
Uh,

4504
01:56:38,839 --> 01:56:42,430
um

4505
01:56:42,430 --> 01:56:43,869
Uh

4506
01:56:43,869 --> 01:56:48,149
my

4507
01:56:48,149 --> 01:56:48,949
And the

4508
01:56:48,949 --> 01:56:52,180
in

4509
01:56:52,180 --> 01:56:53,719
I am.

4510
01:56:53,719 --> 01:56:55,560
Mhm.

4511
01:56:55,560 --> 01:56:57,360
>> How about you Jeffrey? Do you think

4512
01:56:57,360 --> 01:56:58,839
outside, you know, moving away

4513
01:56:58,839 --> 01:57:00,320
from Oklahoma State University,

4514
01:57:00,320 --> 01:57:02,000
you're a second year student

4515
01:57:02,000 --> 01:57:03,430
and the circle of support

4516
01:57:03,430 --> 01:57:05,130
stays with Oklahoma

4517
01:57:05,130 --> 01:57:06,669
State University,

4518
01:57:06,669 --> 01:57:08,159
do you think that there's, if

4519
01:57:08,159 --> 01:57:09,570
you live independently

4520
01:57:09,570 --> 01:57:10,919
by your by yourself

4521
01:57:10,919 --> 01:57:12,049
that you

4522
01:57:12,049 --> 01:57:13,519
would have a group of

4523
01:57:13,519 --> 01:57:14,880
people that you could count on to

4524
01:57:14,880 --> 01:57:18,150
ask.

4525
01:57:18,150 --> 01:57:20,519
for some support.

4526
01:57:20,519 --> 01:57:21,510
>> Yeah, there's some

4527
01:57:21,510 --> 01:57:22,600
people,

4528
01:57:22,600 --> 01:57:24,549
um,

4529
01:57:24,549 --> 01:57:26,180
That would could help me

4530
01:57:26,180 --> 01:57:27,380
with my stuff,

4531
01:57:27,380 --> 01:57:28,740
but only people I

4532
01:57:28,740 --> 01:57:30,210
have right now is my parents

4533
01:57:30,210 --> 01:57:32,320
and my grandparents.

4534
01:57:32,320 --> 01:57:33,999
And maybe a few of my friends,

4535
01:57:33,999 --> 01:57:34,559
but that ain't

4536
01:57:34,559 --> 01:57:36,719
many.

4537
01:57:36,719 --> 01:57:37,960
>> Those people could be on

4538
01:57:37,960 --> 01:57:39,519
your your circle

4539
01:57:39,519 --> 01:57:41,200
of support outside of

4540
01:57:41,200 --> 01:57:42,639
OSU

4541
01:57:42,639 --> 01:57:44,159
but not make the decisions

4542
01:57:44,159 --> 01:57:45,880
for you you would

4543
01:57:45,880 --> 01:57:47,400
accept help

4544
01:57:47,400 --> 01:57:49,340
and.

4545
01:57:49,340 --> 01:57:50,889
Thank you.

4546
01:57:50,889 --> 01:57:52,290
Is there anything that you would like

4547
01:57:52,290 --> 01:57:53,650
to say either of you

4548
01:57:53,650 --> 01:57:55,070
on um

4549
01:57:55,070 --> 01:57:56,570
being at Oklahoma State

4550
01:57:56,570 --> 01:57:58,450
University and um

4551
01:57:58,450 --> 01:57:59,689
having

4552
01:57:59,689 --> 01:58:01,010
the your

4553
01:58:01,010 --> 01:58:02,409
own decision making

4554
01:58:02,409 --> 01:58:03,730
abilities as you're at

4555
01:58:03,730 --> 01:58:06,930
college?

4556
01:58:06,930 --> 01:58:07,169
>> You

4557
01:58:07,169 --> 01:58:10,040
first.

4558
01:58:10,040 --> 01:58:10,049
All

4559
01:58:10,049 --> 01:58:14,120
righty.

4560
01:58:14,120 --> 01:58:15,639
Well,

4561
01:58:15,639 --> 01:58:17,650
I just

4562
01:58:17,650 --> 01:58:18,969
I just,

4563
01:58:18,969 --> 01:58:20,450
I, I'm just like

4564
01:58:20,450 --> 01:58:21,740
being

4565
01:58:21,740 --> 01:58:23,519
Independent for myself

4566
01:58:23,519 --> 01:58:25,040
and I just don't

4567
01:58:25,040 --> 01:58:26,439
think there's no need for a

4568
01:58:26,439 --> 01:58:27,919
guardian when

4569
01:58:27,919 --> 01:58:29,279
you can just make decisions for

4570
01:58:29,279 --> 01:58:31,400
yourself and

4571
01:58:31,400 --> 01:58:32,919
not just a matter of not just

4572
01:58:32,919 --> 01:58:33,880
a matter of opinion,

4573
01:58:33,880 --> 01:58:35,400
but That's

4574
01:58:35,400 --> 01:58:36,909
just me

4575
01:58:36,909 --> 01:58:38,669
You,

4576
01:58:38,669 --> 01:58:46,779
>> Uh,

4577
01:58:46,779 --> 01:58:50,290
Uh

4578
01:58:50,290 --> 01:58:51,609
Um, what was the

4579
01:58:51,609 --> 01:58:54,059
question?

4580
01:58:54,059 --> 01:58:55,850
>> How do you like being a

4581
01:58:55,850 --> 01:58:57,609
a student at Oklahoma State

4582
01:58:57,609 --> 01:58:59,070
University and having the ability to make

4583
01:58:59,070 --> 01:59:00,749
your own decisions?

4584
01:59:00,749 --> 01:59:02,279
>> Oh.

4585
01:59:02,279 --> 01:59:03,389
I answered that question

4586
01:59:03,389 --> 01:59:09,389
wrong.

4587
01:59:09,389 --> 01:59:10,689
>> Probably

4588
01:59:10,689 --> 01:59:11,700
uh

4589
01:59:11,700 --> 01:59:13,420
this

4590
01:59:13,420 --> 01:59:14,770
>> Like just how like how you like

4591
01:59:14,770 --> 01:59:16,038
it.

4592
01:59:16,038 --> 01:59:17,008
>> Oh, I love

4593
01:59:17,008 --> 01:59:20,089
it.

4594
01:59:20,089 --> 01:59:21,489
>> Yeah, we both love it

4595
01:59:21,489 --> 01:59:23,189
here and just having our own

4596
01:59:23,189 --> 01:59:25,550
decisions.

4597
01:59:25,550 --> 01:59:27,339
>> Well, I hope you both made great

4598
01:59:27,339 --> 01:59:28,709
decisions Saturday night

4599
01:59:28,709 --> 01:59:30,230
after the game

4600
01:59:30,230 --> 01:59:32,610
storming the field.

4601
01:59:32,610 --> 01:59:34,610
Yeah

4602
01:59:34,610 --> 01:59:36,050
right, OK, I

4603
01:59:36,050 --> 01:59:37,330
see it,

4604
01:59:37,330 --> 01:59:38,570
um, any

4605
01:59:38,570 --> 01:59:40,080
other, anything else you'd like

4606
01:59:40,080 --> 01:59:41,610
to say or any questions that you

4607
01:59:41,610 --> 01:59:43,209
have for us?

4608
01:59:43,209 --> 01:59:44,839
>> Um,

4609
01:59:44,839 --> 01:59:46,279
I can't, I can't think of

4610
01:59:46,279 --> 01:59:47,909
any, do you?

4611
01:59:47,909 --> 01:59:50,649
>> Uh

4612
01:59:50,649 --> 01:59:52,209
Well, all >> right,

4613
01:59:52,209 --> 01:59:54,089
I guess we don't have any questions.

4614
01:59:54,089 --> 01:59:55,529
>> All right, thank you guys for being

4615
01:59:55,529 --> 01:59:56,890
here. Is there anyone that has

4616
01:59:56,890 --> 01:59:58,869
any questions here?

4617
01:59:58,869 --> 01:59:59,239
That are

4618
01:59:59,239 --> 02:00:03,320
present

4619
02:00:03,320 --> 02:00:05,040
All right well thank you guys.

4620
02:00:05,040 --> 02:00:06,439
I appreciate you uh

4621
02:00:06,439 --> 02:00:07,959
coming on thank you

4622
02:00:07,959 --> 02:00:09,659
William for making this very painless

4623
02:00:09,659 --> 02:00:11,239
for me um

4624
02:00:11,239 --> 02:00:12,719
no

4625
02:00:12,719 --> 02:00:14,119
and uh I appreciate you

4626
02:00:14,119 --> 02:00:15,399
being here. >> All

4627
02:00:15,399 --> 02:00:16,520
right, thank

4628
02:00:16,520 --> 02:00:17,929
you. Thank

4629
02:00:17,929 --> 02:00:20,439
you.

4630
02:00:20,439 --> 02:00:22,010
>> Well, it looks like we

4631
02:00:22,010 --> 02:00:23,649
may um be able to end

4632
02:00:23,649 --> 02:00:25,459
early um

4633
02:00:25,459 --> 02:00:27,170
if uh if there are

4634
02:00:27,170 --> 02:00:27,890
no other

4635
02:00:27,890 --> 02:00:29,899
questions.

4636
02:00:29,899 --> 02:00:31,700
Any questions?

4637
02:00:31,700 --> 02:00:33,219
OK. Well,

4638
02:00:33,219 --> 02:00:34,820
I, I would love to,

4639
02:00:34,820 --> 02:00:36,510
uh thank you,

4640
02:00:36,510 --> 02:00:38,059
uh, Chairman Dell

4641
02:00:38,059 --> 02:00:39,459
and, uh, Vice Chairman

4642
02:00:39,459 --> 02:00:40,980
Culver for,

4643
02:00:40,980 --> 02:00:42,339
um, for

4644
02:00:42,339 --> 02:00:43,820
allowing this. I know that there

4645
02:00:43,820 --> 02:00:45,179
is a lot said.

4646
02:00:45,179 --> 02:00:46,580
Um, about supported decision

4647
02:00:46,580 --> 02:00:47,920
making and a lot of

4648
02:00:47,920 --> 02:00:49,739
questions still so grateful

4649
02:00:49,739 --> 02:00:51,429
to, um

4650
02:00:51,429 --> 02:00:53,140
to have you here, uh,

4651
02:00:53,140 --> 02:00:54,700
Morgan and I

4652
02:00:54,700 --> 02:00:55,899
hope to contact you

4653
02:00:55,899 --> 02:00:57,320
again, uh, maybe

4654
02:00:57,320 --> 02:00:58,820
for some more technical assistance

4655
02:00:58,820 --> 02:01:00,439
there. I like the idea

4656
02:01:00,439 --> 02:01:01,640
of taking a while

4657
02:01:01,640 --> 02:01:02,959
to to get a bill

4658
02:01:02,959 --> 02:01:04,450
drafted. Because

4659
02:01:04,450 --> 02:01:05,890
then it it has us put all

4660
02:01:05,890 --> 02:01:07,290
these different things maybe

4661
02:01:07,290 --> 02:01:08,730
there's something that we need

4662
02:01:08,730 --> 02:01:10,409
to change and I

4663
02:01:10,409 --> 02:01:12,010
appreciate your, uh,

4664
02:01:12,010 --> 02:01:13,709
commentary on that. Um,

4665
02:01:13,709 --> 02:01:15,290
thank you so much and

4666
02:01:15,290 --> 02:01:16,830
giving us the examples

4667
02:01:16,830 --> 02:01:18,610
of other states as well.

4668
02:01:18,610 --> 02:01:19,969
Um, thank you to,

4669
02:01:19,969 --> 02:01:21,570
uh, uh, Brian for being

4670
02:01:21,570 --> 02:01:23,089
here. I appreciate that.

4671
02:01:23,089 --> 02:01:24,570
Heather, thank you for

4672
02:01:24,570 --> 02:01:26,170
coming. uh thank you Leighton

4673
02:01:26,170 --> 02:01:27,529
for being here and then of

4674
02:01:27,529 --> 02:01:28,860
course the students from Oklahoma

4675
02:01:28,860 --> 02:01:30,170
State University it looks like they're

4676
02:01:30,170 --> 02:01:31,630
gone. Um,

4677
02:01:31,630 --> 02:01:33,070
but I appreciate them being here

4678
02:01:33,070 --> 02:01:34,630
as well. Um,

4679
02:01:34,630 --> 02:01:36,270
supported decision making. thank

4680
02:01:36,270 --> 02:01:37,790
uh thank you again to

4681
02:01:37,790 --> 02:01:39,200
the staff, uh thank you

4682
02:01:39,200 --> 02:01:40,980
for being here, Representative,

4683
02:01:40,980 --> 02:01:42,790
uh, uh, Stinson,

4684
02:01:42,790 --> 02:01:44,360
um.

4685
02:01:44,360 --> 02:01:45,809
This, this is kind of

4686
02:01:45,809 --> 02:01:47,219
difficult, you know, there's some of

4687
02:01:47,219 --> 02:01:49,059
us that feel

4688
02:01:49,059 --> 02:01:50,779
That yeah guardianship

4689
02:01:50,779 --> 02:01:52,320
is way too restrictive

4690
02:01:52,320 --> 02:01:53,860
and even the least restrictive

4691
02:01:53,860 --> 02:01:55,339
guardianship is

4692
02:01:55,339 --> 02:01:57,260
way too restrictive

4693
02:01:57,260 --> 02:01:58,980
for some of our kids

4694
02:01:58,980 --> 02:02:00,619
um I think that leaving

4695
02:02:00,619 --> 02:02:01,860
it without any sort

4696
02:02:01,860 --> 02:02:03,369
of rules on it if I

4697
02:02:03,369 --> 02:02:04,929
can say that leave it

4698
02:02:04,929 --> 02:02:07,119
open to our vulnerable.

4699
02:02:07,119 --> 02:02:08,559
Young adults

4700
02:02:08,559 --> 02:02:09,880
to maybe have someone

4701
02:02:09,880 --> 02:02:11,800
putting themselves on a team

4702
02:02:11,800 --> 02:02:13,360
that's not really formalized

4703
02:02:13,360 --> 02:02:14,350
by the person with a

4704
02:02:14,350 --> 02:02:15,920
disability um

4705
02:02:15,920 --> 02:02:17,399
that could be I

4706
02:02:17,399 --> 02:02:18,830
mean that was a question I had in

4707
02:02:18,830 --> 02:02:20,239
my head this is also

4708
02:02:20,239 --> 02:02:21,839
something if we're not too restrictive

4709
02:02:21,839 --> 02:02:23,040
we could look at aging

4710
02:02:23,040 --> 02:02:24,520
adults and I think there's

4711
02:02:24,520 --> 02:02:25,999
some of us that have

4712
02:02:25,999 --> 02:02:27,439
had an experience with

4713
02:02:27,439 --> 02:02:28,749
or will have an

4714
02:02:28,749 --> 02:02:30,480
experience with an aging

4715
02:02:30,480 --> 02:02:32,480
adult where.

4716
02:02:32,480 --> 02:02:33,980
They may need the support

4717
02:02:33,980 --> 02:02:35,619
of someone else on their team

4718
02:02:35,619 --> 02:02:37,200
in that they

4719
02:02:37,200 --> 02:02:38,559
can go to

4720
02:02:38,559 --> 02:02:39,999
for help. I'm

4721
02:02:39,999 --> 02:02:41,239
thinking of a neighbour of

4722
02:02:41,239 --> 02:02:42,920
mine who um

4723
02:02:42,920 --> 02:02:44,559
with a roofer because I was you

4724
02:02:44,559 --> 02:02:46,119
brought up that example Brian and it

4725
02:02:46,119 --> 02:02:47,679
reminded me of that that

4726
02:02:47,679 --> 02:02:48,760
she felt she had to do

4727
02:02:48,760 --> 02:02:50,360
something and if there

4728
02:02:50,360 --> 02:02:51,730
was and

4729
02:02:51,730 --> 02:02:53,119
and felt she got into

4730
02:02:53,119 --> 02:02:54,559
something that she shouldn't have because she

4731
02:02:54,559 --> 02:02:56,119
didn't understand and

4732
02:02:56,119 --> 02:02:57,520
so if we

4733
02:02:57,520 --> 02:02:58,880
formalize something maybe

4734
02:02:58,880 --> 02:03:00,239
other people

4735
02:03:00,239 --> 02:03:01,580
besides

4736
02:03:01,580 --> 02:03:02,989
um. It'll make

4737
02:03:02,989 --> 02:03:04,480
it more

4738
02:03:04,480 --> 02:03:05,600
I don't know what is that

4739
02:03:05,600 --> 02:03:07,239
social to talk

4740
02:03:07,239 --> 02:03:08,839
about it and I think that's

4741
02:03:08,839 --> 02:03:10,670
probably what's needed in this

4742
02:03:10,670 --> 02:03:12,080
conversation helps that

4743
02:03:12,080 --> 02:03:13,640
that um it's not just

4744
02:03:13,640 --> 02:03:15,159
for disability we we don't want to

4745
02:03:15,159 --> 02:03:16,770
be that narrow especially

4746
02:03:16,770 --> 02:03:18,239
what defines that

4747
02:03:18,239 --> 02:03:19,709
but I need help

4748
02:03:19,709 --> 02:03:20,999
all the time and

4749
02:03:20,999 --> 02:03:22,439
formalizing that I may need in

4750
02:03:22,439 --> 02:03:23,880
the near future so

4751
02:03:23,880 --> 02:03:25,399
knowing that it's offered to us

4752
02:03:25,399 --> 02:03:26,679
elderly people as

4753
02:03:26,679 --> 02:03:28,080
well and

4754
02:03:28,080 --> 02:03:29,590
historically guardianship has been

4755
02:03:29,590 --> 02:03:31,549
applied too broadly.

4756
02:03:31,549 --> 02:03:32,989
And from my own experience

4757
02:03:32,989 --> 02:03:34,349
knowing how and

4758
02:03:34,349 --> 02:03:35,950
Heather expressed that as

4759
02:03:35,950 --> 02:03:37,549
well about having that

4760
02:03:37,549 --> 02:03:38,749
be the only

4761
02:03:38,749 --> 02:03:40,349
option and then we put ourselves

4762
02:03:40,349 --> 02:03:41,939
in there what are we not doing to

4763
02:03:41,939 --> 02:03:43,309
protect our kids

4764
02:03:43,309 --> 02:03:44,669
um and then of

4765
02:03:44,669 --> 02:03:46,070
course you met William

4766
02:03:46,070 --> 02:03:48,070
he's got ideas of his own

4767
02:03:48,070 --> 02:03:49,520
and um.

4768
02:03:49,520 --> 02:03:51,039
It's, it's

4769
02:03:51,039 --> 02:03:52,619
kind of kind of those hard

4770
02:03:52,619 --> 02:03:54,039
conversations that we've had about that as

4771
02:03:54,039 --> 02:03:55,720
well so

4772
02:03:55,720 --> 02:03:57,200
having this option could

4773
02:03:57,200 --> 02:03:58,799
help. I understand the liability,

4774
02:03:58,799 --> 02:04:00,210
but thank you for

4775
02:04:00,210 --> 02:04:02,070
explaining that a little bit more.

4776
02:04:02,070 --> 02:04:03,640
Um, I know that a

4777
02:04:03,640 --> 02:04:05,239
notary is not

4778
02:04:05,239 --> 02:04:06,760
required for a power of attorney. You would think

4779
02:04:06,760 --> 02:04:08,119
it would be, but

4780
02:04:08,119 --> 02:04:09,439
it's not. is that

4781
02:04:09,439 --> 02:04:09,880
correct,

4782
02:04:09,880 --> 02:04:13,340
Brian?

4783
02:04:13,340 --> 02:04:14,580
Yes, yeah,

4784
02:04:14,580 --> 02:04:16,059
so there again, you

4785
02:04:16,059 --> 02:04:17,859
know, there's those

4786
02:04:17,859 --> 02:04:19,299
I, I remember someone saying you

4787
02:04:19,299 --> 02:04:20,780
should get a notary for this

4788
02:04:20,780 --> 02:04:22,270
and I mean all these things

4789
02:04:22,270 --> 02:04:23,460
that I don't, I don't want

4790
02:04:23,460 --> 02:04:25,299
unintended consequences,

4791
02:04:25,299 --> 02:04:26,820
but I think these questions and all these

4792
02:04:26,820 --> 02:04:28,169
things that come up are really

4793
02:04:28,169 --> 02:04:29,460
great for us to be thinking

4794
02:04:29,460 --> 02:04:30,939
of and then I want everyone

4795
02:04:30,939 --> 02:04:32,499
to know that this isn't easy for

4796
02:04:32,499 --> 02:04:34,059
me, um, or

4797
02:04:34,059 --> 02:04:35,260
Heather for that matter. I mean

4798
02:04:35,260 --> 02:04:36,820
we, we've talked about

4799
02:04:36,820 --> 02:04:38,059
this for a long time,

4800
02:04:38,059 --> 02:04:39,619
uh, ever since our kids

4801
02:04:39,619 --> 02:04:40,539
were young,

4802
02:04:40,539 --> 02:04:42,099
um.

4803
02:04:42,099 --> 02:04:43,590
The difference is really significant

4804
02:04:43,590 --> 02:04:44,789
about taking someone's rights

4805
02:04:44,789 --> 02:04:46,229
away, and that I think

4806
02:04:46,229 --> 02:04:48,109
was just mentioned to touch,

4807
02:04:48,109 --> 02:04:49,710
but for for my son,

4808
02:04:49,710 --> 02:04:51,210
I know that he knows he has

4809
02:04:51,210 --> 02:04:52,749
these rights.

4810
02:04:52,749 --> 02:04:54,309
What, what, what are we doing if

4811
02:04:54,309 --> 02:04:55,630
we take away that too

4812
02:04:55,630 --> 02:04:57,140
soon?

4813
02:04:57,140 --> 02:04:58,729
If we start that in too soon

4814
02:04:58,729 --> 02:05:00,390
and where they could go

4815
02:05:00,390 --> 02:05:02,229
if they know that they have that

4816
02:05:02,229 --> 02:05:03,770
opportunity and the rights

4817
02:05:03,770 --> 02:05:05,229
to make a choice,

4818
02:05:05,229 --> 02:05:06,630
um, again I wanna thank the

4819
02:05:06,630 --> 02:05:07,950
house staff,

4820
02:05:07,950 --> 02:05:09,510
um, I'd love and

4821
02:05:09,510 --> 02:05:11,109
especially my legislative

4822
02:05:11,109 --> 02:05:12,669
assistant Chelsea all who have

4823
02:05:12,669 --> 02:05:14,189
helped with this, the

4824
02:05:14,189 --> 02:05:15,309
students at OOS

4825
02:05:15,309 --> 02:05:16,970
OSU, Doctor

4826
02:05:16,970 --> 02:05:18,359
Tucker, thank you

4827
02:05:18,359 --> 02:05:20,150
for having them here,

4828
02:05:20,150 --> 02:05:21,669
um, and of course I'd like to

4829
02:05:21,669 --> 02:05:23,359
thank William. Um,

4830
02:05:23,359 --> 02:05:24,919
thank, thank him for not saying

4831
02:05:24,919 --> 02:05:26,119
anything that would embarrass

4832
02:05:26,119 --> 02:05:27,679
me. It, it almost

4833
02:05:27,679 --> 02:05:29,239
was, I'll tell you that,

4834
02:05:29,239 --> 02:05:30,880
um, but even

4835
02:05:30,880 --> 02:05:32,429
then, you know, he's the only one that

4836
02:05:32,429 --> 02:05:34,140
helps me understand the barriers

4837
02:05:34,140 --> 02:05:35,679
and all the gaps,

4838
02:05:35,679 --> 02:05:37,160
and, um, and I

4839
02:05:37,160 --> 02:05:38,559
know I'm not just doing this

4840
02:05:38,559 --> 02:05:40,330
for myself.

4841
02:05:40,330 --> 02:05:41,809
I know I'm not,

4842
02:05:41,809 --> 02:05:43,249
um, so I'm having

4843
02:05:43,249 --> 02:05:44,630
him and then especially

4844
02:05:44,630 --> 02:05:45,770
the students and then

4845
02:05:45,770 --> 02:05:47,530
Leighton to help

4846
02:05:47,530 --> 02:05:49,320
all of us understand that

4847
02:05:49,320 --> 02:05:50,669
you know these are difficult

4848
02:05:50,669 --> 02:05:52,249
conversations and uh

4849
02:05:52,249 --> 02:05:53,880
and um.

4850
02:05:53,880 --> 02:05:55,479
And there's more out there that we can

4851
02:05:55,479 --> 02:05:57,320
do. Um,

4852
02:05:57,320 --> 02:05:58,999
thanks again for listening and,

4853
02:05:58,999 --> 02:06:00,640
uh, again, I

4854
02:06:00,640 --> 02:06:01,679
appreciate your time and

4855
02:06:01,679 --> 02:06:04,619
attention.

4856
02:06:04,619 --> 02:06:06,419
>> Well, thank you, representative

4857
02:06:06,419 --> 02:06:08,020
and all the presenters

4858
02:06:08,020 --> 02:06:09,539
and everybody here

4859
02:06:09,539 --> 02:06:11,320
today, uh.

4860
02:06:11,320 --> 02:06:12,770
Something that we need to take a

4861
02:06:12,770 --> 02:06:13,849
deep dive in

4862
02:06:13,849 --> 02:06:15,330
and I can't

4863
02:06:15,330 --> 02:06:16,849
think of a better one to do it

4864
02:06:16,849 --> 02:06:18,809
than you, Representative.

4865
02:06:18,809 --> 02:06:20,869
So with that, we're adjourned.