[5:33] good morning everyone.
[5:35] welcomecome to the senate
[5:37] Committee on Economic
[5:38] Development Workforce and
[5:38] tourism
[5:40] thank you all for coming today
[5:42] we're gonna start our morning
[5:46] off with Senator kirt you've
[5:48] got a study interim study on
[5:50] land banking and so just a few
[5:52] housekeeping things as we get
[5:53] moving here today this is going
[5:55] to be really informal you
[5:56] don't have to work through the
[5:57] chair we'll just have a
[5:59] conversation Senator Kirt
[6:00] I'll let you take the lead and
[6:02] we'll be cognizant of time
[6:04] because we are back to back to
[6:06] back to back today but with that
[6:08] thank you all for coming.
[6:08] welcomelcome to the senate and
[6:09] senator
[6:10] k ir t the floor is yours
[6:12] thank you very much madam
[6:14] chairir and thank you for
[6:15] putting together this lineup
[6:16] of interesting housing topics
[6:18] today I think you know we've
[6:20] come a long way and in
[6:21] understanding housing as a key
[6:22] part of our economic development
[6:24] across the state and I
[6:25] appreciate the opportunity to
[6:27] talk about it with that
[6:29] framework in mind I know that
[6:31] this topic is something that I
[6:32] filed legislation on before and
[6:34] we really felt like we needed to
[6:37] go back to to looking at the
[6:38] issue and what the structure of
[6:40] a land bank could do for our
[6:41] communities it's it's really
[6:43] an opportunity to create more
[6:44] productive uses out of
[6:46] properties and I just briefly
[6:48] want to say that this my
[6:49] interest in this topic came
[6:51] about when I got repeated phone
[6:53] calls from a senior in my
[6:55] district an elderly woman who
[6:56] was dealing with a next door
[6:58] neighbor home that had been
[6:59] boarded up for more than a
[7:02] decade and was having repeated
[7:04] problems with squatters she
[7:05] would call the police the police
[7:07] would come they could not find
[7:08] the owner to confirm whether
[7:10] these people were allowed to be
[7:11] on the property or not
[7:12] and this happened again and
[7:15] again this is a huge expense to
[7:16] our communities for police
[7:19] and fire response it's a drain
[7:20] on our neighborhoods in terms of
[7:22] safety and it can be a real
[7:26] challenge for property values
[7:27] you know vacant and abandoned
[7:28] properties can cause huge
[7:30] challenges around property
[7:31] values as not to mention
[7:34] property taxes so we're looking
[7:35] specifically at properties that
[7:36] cause big public health and
[7:38] safety risks and that challenge
[7:39] of the drain of tax dollars as
[7:40] well as the challenge that those
[7:41] properties
[7:43] around it I you know
[7:44] repeatedly talked to
[7:45] constituents who had a boarded
[7:46] up apartment complex across the
[7:48] street the man had resorted to
[7:51] mowing it himself because he was
[7:54] so tired of the vermits and
[7:56] other problems he was facing and
[7:57] it was costing the city to come
[7:59] out and do that regularly what
[8:02] can we do and one of those tools
[8:04] that we do not have as an option
[8:05] in our state right now is land
[8:08] banks which can be a short term
[8:09] solution for good outcomes for
[8:10] the community and getting
[8:11] properties back into
[8:14] private use. So I am thrilled
[8:15] to have experts at the
[8:17] readyad today to look at those
[8:18] structures and help us
[8:20] understand what's possible most
[8:21] of all I'd like to thank the
[8:22] neighborighbourhood
[8:24] housingervices of oklahoma
[8:25] that's Katrina Washington
[8:26] director gonna speak and also
[8:29] Gary Jones for organizing I
[8:30] would like to hand off to
[8:30] Katrina now please.
[8:33] thank you
[8:37] so good morning thank you for
[8:39] the opportunity to be here today
[8:41] my name's Katrina Washington I
[8:42] serve as the executive director
[8:43] of neighborighboorhood housing
[8:44] Services Oklahoma I've worked in
[8:46] affordable housing community
[8:47] development development and
[8:48] residential and commercial real
[8:50] estate for more than 30 years I
[8:52] want to use this time today to
[8:53] talk about something we
[8:54] encounter from a developer's
[8:56] perspective the practical
[8:58] barriers between identifying a
[9:00] property and actually turning
[9:02] that property into affordable
[9:04] housing we often talk about the
[9:05] need for more housing and that
[9:06] need
[9:08] is very real but increasing
[9:10] housing production is not simply
[9:12] a matter of finding money and
[9:13] finding a developer we also have
[9:14] to address the condition
[9:16] ownership title costs and
[9:18] availability of land itself.
[9:19] Next slide please
[9:22] Oklahoma needs more housing
[9:25] how to advance
[9:28] that working families seniors
[9:31] and lower income households can
[9:31] afford
[9:34] as the slide demonstrates we are
[9:35] facing a significant rental
[9:36] housing shortage in many
[9:40] Oklahoma renters are already
[9:41] spending more than 30% of their
[9:43] income on housing but what I
[9:44] particularly want to emphasize
[9:46] today is what happens before
[9:50] construction ever begins at Nhs
[9:52] we have an interested developer
[9:53] we can have a potential funding
[9:54] source we can have a
[9:55] neighborhood where housing is
[9:56] needed
[9:58] and still that project can
[10:01] stall. Why? because the pastels
[10:02] can be scattered ownership may
[10:05] be unclear they can have lanes
[10:07] delinquent taxes title problems
[10:10] demolition needs infrastructure
[10:11] issues or years of deferred
[10:13] maintenance every one of those
[10:16] issues adds time and cost so the
[10:17] question I want to ask the
[10:18] committee or everyone here to
[10:20] consider is how do we move
[10:22] difficult property into a
[10:24] productive use faster while
[10:25] maintaining transparency and
[10:26] ensuring
[10:29] that a clear there's clear
[10:29] public benefit
[10:35] you have to go to the next slide
[10:37] there we go
[10:40] So one of the first lessons we
[10:42] learned is affordable housing
[10:43] developers is that available
[10:45] land is not necessarily usable
[10:47] land. You may have ive vacant
[10:49] lots in a neighborhood but they
[10:50] may be scat scattered across
[10:52] several blocks you may need
[10:55] three adjoining parcels to make
[10:56] that development work but those
[10:58] parcels may have three different
[11:01] owners and three different sets
[11:03] of problems even after
[11:04] acquisition we may discover that
[11:06] a site requires demolition
[11:07] utility work grading
[11:07] environmental work
[11:10] or other infrastructure
[11:12] improvements now that means that
[11:15] a parcel looks inexpensive on
[11:18] paper and it can bu become very
[11:20] expensive by the time we
[11:21] actually start construction on
[11:24] those now for us as nonprofit
[11:26] affordable housing developers
[11:28] those additional costs are
[11:30] particularly important because
[11:32] every additional dollar that we
[11:34] spend getting that land ready is
[11:36] a dollar that cannot be spent
[11:37] producing or preserving housing
[11:43] that becomes even more
[11:43] challenging when we're dealing
[11:44] with distressed property.
[11:48] we sometimes hear that a vacant
[11:49] property or tax delinquent
[11:50] parcel should be easy to
[11:52] redevelop because the
[11:55] acquisition price is low now
[11:56] unfortunately that purchase
[11:59] price often is a very small part
[12:01] of our problem now there there
[12:03] can be delinquent taxes liens
[12:06] codevelopment issues multiple
[12:08] claims demolition costs clean up
[12:10] expenses security and
[12:11] maintenance costs fragmented
[12:11] ownership
[12:14] and then there's the cost of
[12:15] time
[12:18] now those issues are while those
[12:19] issues are being resolved
[12:20] somebody has to maintain that
[12:21] property
[12:24] the grass still grows buildings
[12:28] deteriorate illegal dumping can
[12:29] occur in in the neighborhoods
[12:30] can you know just decline
[12:34] now as developers we have the
[12:36] financing and construction costs
[12:37] and those continue to increase
[12:40] there's also important policy
[12:41] questions about disposition
[12:46] now if distress pro public
[12:48] property is disposed of solely
[12:50] based upon who offers the
[12:52] highest price we may
[12:53] unintentionally eliminate
[12:55] opportunities to use that
[12:56] property for affordable housing
[12:59] or another long term community
[12:59] benefit
[13:04] sometimes the greatest return to
[13:05] the community is not necessarily
[13:07] the highest price paid for that
[13:07] land
[13:14] title is another barrier and
[13:17] it's often one thats that
[13:17] doesn't receive enough attention
[13:20] now before lender investor
[13:22] government agency or nonprofit
[13:24] is going to put hundreds of tho
[13:25] or thousands and potentially
[13:27] millions into a development we
[13:29] have to have that confidence
[13:30] that we have clear and
[13:32] marketable title that becomes
[13:33] difficult when ownership is
[13:36] uncertain, taxes or liens may be
[13:38] outstanding on that property or
[13:39] property has passed through
[13:39] several generations without
[13:40] probate
[13:42] now there's something called
[13:43] heir's property and it's
[13:44] particularly important issue in
[13:47] many communities when several
[13:48] family members have ownership
[13:50] interests identifying everyone
[13:51] and obtaining the legal
[13:52] authority necessary to transfer
[13:56] that property can take some
[13:57] considerable time. During that
[13:58] period the project can't move
[13:59] forward
[14:01] financing commitments can be
[14:03] jeopardized construction costs
[14:06] can rise professional fees
[14:08] continue and in some cases an
[14:10] otherwise viable project simply
[14:11] becomes financially infeasible
[14:16] a more coordinated system for
[14:17] resolving these issues could
[14:18] make a meaning meaningful
[14:19] difference
[14:25] and that brings us to cost.
[14:26] Affordable housing development
[14:28] already operates with very
[14:32] little room for error. We have
[14:33] land costs construction costs
[14:34] financing costs insurance
[14:36] infrastructure compliance
[14:37] requirements and professional
[14:37] services
[14:41] when it takes an additional year
[14:42] or several years sometimes to
[14:44] obtain control of a property or
[14:46] resolve these title issues and
[14:47] liens that we're discussing
[14:50] we have construction price
[14:52] changes interest expenses
[14:54] increases insurance cost changes
[14:55] funding commitments can
[14:55] sometimes expire
[14:58] ultimately someone has to absorb
[14:59] that difference
[15:02] for affordable housing projects
[15:04] that usually means one of three
[15:05] things
[15:08] we need more subsidy the
[15:08] homeowner or the renter must
[15:11] absorb those higher costs or we
[15:11] produce fewer homes
[15:15] that's why reducing unnecessary
[15:16] delay is not simply an
[15:18] administrative issue it's an
[15:19] affordable housing issue
[15:24] this is where I believe the
[15:26] discussion about land banks
[15:28] becomes particularly valuable a
[15:30] land bank does not replace
[15:31] developers
[15:34] and it should not replace local
[15:35] decision making
[15:38] instead properly structured land
[15:40] bank legislation can give
[15:42] communities another tool for
[15:42] dealing with properties that the
[15:44] traditional real estate market
[15:46] has not been able to resolve
[15:47] effectively
[15:49] think about the process shown on
[15:49] this slide.
[15:50] first
[15:54] identify eligible vacant a
[15:56] abandoned tax delinquent
[15:58] foreclosure surplus property
[15:59] secondcond
[16:00] provide a mechanism to acquire
[16:02] and responsibly hold that
[16:03] property
[16:07] third and this is extremely
[16:08] important resolve the problems
[16:10] that prevent development title
[16:12] tax liens demolition maintenance
[16:16] and sight readiness oth where
[16:18] appropriate assemble parcels so
[16:20] that we are creating sites that
[16:22] can actually support that
[16:24] development and finally transfer
[16:26] those properties to qualified
[16:28] partners using transparent
[16:30] criteria that consider that
[16:32] public benefit and that last
[16:33] point you know really matters
[16:36] for affordable housing we should
[16:38] be able to consider whether the
[16:42] developer has that experience
[16:44] and financing to perform
[16:44] whether the property will serve
[16:46] an identified community need and
[16:48] whether affordable affordability
[16:52] will be protected over time the
[16:54] goal should not simply to be
[16:56] transfer the property the goal
[16:57] should be to move problem
[16:58] property into productive use
[17:02] so I would encourage the
[17:04] legislature to view land bank
[17:06] enabling legis legislation as
[17:08] another tool and Oklahoma's
[17:10] housing and community
[17:12] development toolbox. it does not
[17:14] have to be one size fit all
[17:16] mandate it can provide willing
[17:18] communities with the authority
[17:20] and framework to create
[17:22] transparent and accountable
[17:24] system appropriate for the local
[17:28] needs as you evaluate potential
[17:29] legislation I would encourage
[17:30] you to focus on several
[17:31] principles
[17:34] clear statutory authority
[17:36] transparency and public
[17:38] accountability and effective
[17:40] process for addressing tidal and
[17:42] lean issues the ability to
[17:43] strategically assemble and hold
[17:43] property
[17:46] meaningful opportunities for
[17:48] nonprofit and affordable housing
[17:50] partners and safeguards and
[17:52] insure property transferred for
[17:54] public purpose and actually
[17:56] delivers that public benefit.
[18:00] Oklahoma already has capable
[18:02] nonprofit developers local
[18:04] governments housing
[18:06] organizations lenders and
[18:07] community partners that are
[18:08] ready to produce and preserve
[18:09] this housing
[18:11] what we sometimes lack
[18:13] is an efficient bridge
[18:16] between distressed property and
[18:17] development readyad property.
[18:20] if we can shorten that distance
[18:22] we can reduce unnecessary costs
[18:26] return vacant and abandoned
[18:26] property to productive use
[18:30] strengthen neighborhoods and
[18:31] create more opportunities for
[18:32] Oklahoma families to have a safe
[18:35] stable affordable place to call
[18:35] home.
[18:38] so thank you for allowing me to
[18:39] participate in this discussion
[18:42] and I appreciate the committee's
[18:43] willingness to examine solutions
[18:44] to this issue
[18:46] thank you
[18:50] thank you so muchrector
[18:50] Washington very much appreciate
[18:54] that overview I'm pleased to
[18:56] say we've got a national voice
[18:58] here we are gonna hear from
[19:00] Doug Ryan who's the vice
[19:02] president of housing policy
[19:04] forroedlutionstwork and they
[19:04] have some amazing resources if
[19:08] you want to read up on some of
[19:10] these issues we're talking
[19:10] about and we're so appreciate
[19:12] him coming and being willing to
[19:14] share with us to give give more
[19:16] context doug you ready to chime
[19:17] in there?
[19:20] I am thank you so much can you
[19:21] can you see my screen?
[19:21] Yeah.
[19:26] perfect I appreciate that
[19:27] thank you madam chairir and
[19:28] thank you Senator kirk for
[19:30] working on SD1478 and really
[19:32] appreciate the opportunity to
[19:34] speak before the committee and I
[19:35] look forward to working with the
[19:36] committee and and the staff as
[19:38] much as possible and how we can
[19:40] be helpful. my name is Doug
[19:42] Ryan. I'm the vice president of
[19:42] housing policy atrounded
[19:44] Solutions Network. we are a
[19:46] national nonprofit. I am based
[19:48] in Washingtondc but we have
[19:48] partners across the country.
[19:50] Katrina Washington is a member
[19:52] of our board we work in Tulsa
[19:53] with
[19:54] a nonprofit there we just got
[19:56] off the ground there we're very
[19:58] excited to work with in in that
[20:00] city and we look forward to more
[20:00] work in the state of Oklahoma.
[20:02] So I'm gonna talk a little bit
[20:04] about an overview of land banks
[20:06] across the country, what's
[20:08] happening elsewhere and how the
[20:10] legislation that's in front
[20:13] of us works well within those
[20:16] models. just an overview and
[20:17] kind of building off what
[20:19] Katrina said what land banks are
[20:20] the pertin they're typically
[20:22] public entities created through
[20:23] state legislation
[20:26] as proposed of the SB1478 and
[20:28] they helped convert problem
[20:30] properties. They do a number of
[20:30] things they they encourage
[20:32] reasonal regional collaboration
[20:36] including agreements among local
[20:37] governments that could help
[20:38] advance land banks they insure
[20:40] acquisition through tax
[20:42] foreclosure processes that
[20:44] little to no cost of the public
[20:46] to the taxpayer as Katrina
[20:48] emphasized it's really important
[20:50] that the title issues resolving
[20:52] those things they hold property
[20:53] tax exempt that helps
[20:54] them move these properties
[20:58] forward into a usable and
[21:00] productive uses and of course
[21:02] they deal with maintenance sales
[21:04] and conveyance those things are
[21:06] really important. There are 20
[21:06] states plus Puerto Rico that
[21:08] have passed land bank
[21:10] legislation and this has been
[21:12] going on for the last about two
[21:16] decades roughly and in2026
[21:17] the states of Louisiana and
[21:18] Washington passed land banks
[21:20] other states that have land bank
[21:22] legislation include uhlouisiana
[21:23] as they
[21:24] just said indiana, Kansas,
[21:26] Kentucky they are really across
[21:28] the country and they cross the
[21:30] ideological and party spectrum
[21:31] cause I think there's a
[21:32] recognition that this is a good
[21:34] tool to have to help address
[21:36] housing and economic development
[21:37] opportunities.
[21:42] The overview of land banks is on
[21:42] the screen. so basically there
[21:44] are a couple of key goals and
[21:46] then there are strategies to
[21:48] move forward once land banks are
[21:50] in place so their one goal of
[21:52] course as Katrina mentioned is
[21:54] eliminating blake that is
[21:56] critical and land banks can help
[21:57] do that through a facilitating
[22:00] demolitions the stabilization of
[22:02] the property and rehabilitation
[22:02] of the structures and the land
[22:06] itself. in some cases a land
[22:07] bank and its
[22:10] advisors may encourage the short
[22:12] term revenue meaning that they
[22:14] might sell properties that they
[22:15] acquired to the highest bidder
[22:18] and the legislation S1478 would
[22:20] would permit that use which I
[22:22] think is important to to have in
[22:24] your back pocket. It also can
[22:26] maximize long term revenue to
[22:28] convey properties which is
[22:28] sustainable development. Now
[22:30] that does often mean housing but
[22:33] it could also mean other uses as
[22:34] well economic strategies, health
[22:36] facilities recreation and things
[22:37] like that it's always
[22:38] important to have different
[22:40] options cause different land is
[22:42] suitable for different purposes
[22:42] but it's also really important
[22:45] to engage community members and
[22:46] local governance of course to to
[22:48] see what the priorities are
[22:52] often land banks are started
[22:52] because there's a need for
[22:54] affordable housing and
[22:56] affordable commercial
[22:56] development and that is
[22:58] criticalland banks are often
[23:00] acquiring properties that are in
[23:02] communities that have a real
[23:04] clear economic needs including
[23:06] housing and making sure that
[23:08] those properties can be
[23:10] delivered to effective
[23:12] developers nonprofit partners
[23:14] and others at a low price to
[23:15] make sure that those deals
[23:16] cancelled out is critical.
[23:18] That's one of the biggest costs
[23:19] that we're hearing across the
[23:19] country
[23:20] and through in Oklahoma is land
[23:24] and how having an effective
[23:26] process to convey these
[23:28] properties is really critical to
[23:30] making these properties into
[23:31] product abuses
[23:34] Finally neighborhood
[23:36] stabilization is a critical goal
[23:37] and that includes again
[23:38] similarly as the first item
[23:42] shows demolition rehabilitation
[23:42] and lock transfers
[23:48] Components of SP1478 from
[23:50] Senator kirt cover a couple of
[23:52] the key components I think that
[23:53] are in
[23:54] successful land banks across the
[23:58] country. It codifies land bank
[23:59] jurisdictions which would create
[24:00] land banks and I think what's
[24:02] really important to recognize is
[24:04] that this the bill also allows
[24:06] the approval of land banks. so
[24:06] that suggests that existing
[24:08] organizations can become land
[24:10] banks which is a which is a
[24:12] useful model and we're seeing
[24:13] that in other states. The bill
[24:14] would also provide authority to
[24:16] acquire tax foreclosed
[24:16] properties that that's of course
[24:18] critical and fundamental
[24:20] codifies the tax treatment of
[24:22] assets it's important that
[24:23] properties are
[24:26] treated as tax exempt so they
[24:28] can become productive uses it
[24:30] authorizes the land bank to
[24:32] issue tax exempt bonds again to
[24:34] lower the costs of operation and
[24:36] lower the costs of converting
[24:38] into productive uses and it
[24:40] identifies as permanent fundings
[24:42] and income sources but what
[24:44] that builds off I think the the
[24:46] bipartisan21st century road to
[24:48] housing bill that Congress
[24:50] enacted earlier this summer
[24:52] helps would help actually some
[24:54] organ organizations build
[24:56] housing and land banks can be a
[24:58] key component of that the the
[25:00] vision that that bill has
[25:04] has and that localities and
[25:04] states are going to implement
[25:06] including Oklahoma and the
[25:08] jurisdictions across the state.
[25:10] I think having a land bank
[25:12] authority will be a critical
[25:13] resource in order to make
[25:14] the21st century road to housing
[25:16] bill effective
[25:20] Land banks and homeownership
[25:22] that's our expertise. So our
[25:22] grounded solutions network we
[25:24] advocate for housing with
[25:26] lasting affordability that
[25:26] typically includes land trusts,
[25:28] community land trusts and other
[25:30] models that ensure that the home
[25:32] is not only affordable for that
[25:34] first generation of home buyers
[25:35] but multiple generations moving
[25:38] forward and part of the the idea
[25:39] is that when there is a public
[25:39] subsidy
[25:42] through a funding program like
[25:44] homeme or CBG or a local
[25:46] resource or public land
[25:48] including land disposal through
[25:50] a land bank it is critical that
[25:52] the community is able to
[25:54] maintain that asset and benefit
[25:55] from that asset over the long
[25:56] haul and that's why we think
[25:59] land banks and land trusts can
[26:00] work well together. So land
[26:02] banks really are critical
[26:04] housing partners so for example
[26:06] in a recent survey from last
[26:06] year by the Center for Community
[26:08] Progress a partner of ours
[26:09] that's that's also based in
[26:09] Washingtondc
[26:12] they surveyed land banks and
[26:14] they found that70% of them are
[26:16] either currently engaging or
[26:17] plan to engage in housing
[26:18] development.housing development
[26:20] is a critical goal of land
[26:22] banks. it's not the only one but
[26:24] it's often at the forefront of
[26:26] the of the community members and
[26:27] the and the partners and the
[26:28] local government that create
[26:29] these land banks
[26:31] Land banks also are a pipeline
[26:32] for challenge inventory. I mean
[26:34] one of the biggest challenges in
[26:36] many communities where land
[26:38] banks are getting started is the
[26:40] fact that there's this value
[26:42] gap. basicallysically the cost
[26:44] of acquiring and rehabilitating
[26:46] the property exceeds what the
[26:48] the the ultimate enterprise
[26:50] could be. So having the
[26:52] disposition process through
[26:54] through a land bank can can
[26:54] reduce the cost and actually
[26:56] make those deals pencil out and
[26:58] that's critically important.
[26:59] There's also imple
[27:00] ment ation of comprehensive
[27:02] strategies including as I
[27:04] mentioned before, not just
[27:06] housing but recreation and more
[27:07] there's some really good
[27:08] examples across the country of
[27:12] in uses for commercial public
[27:14] health resources and other
[27:16] outcomes so again the community
[27:18] has to be deeply involved
[27:18] because there's gonna be lots of
[27:20] different priorities within that
[27:22] community but also different
[27:23] types of properties will have
[27:24] better uses than they would in
[27:26] others they might be in an area
[27:28] that needs a certain type of
[27:29] resolution
[27:30] and it might not be suitable for
[27:32] say housing or recreation and
[27:34] that means meeting the
[27:36] prioritized needs of the
[27:38] communities which we identify as
[27:39] we work through the land bank
[27:41] creation process
[27:44] Furthermore there's like a
[27:46] couple of great examples across
[27:48] the country. So in Houston
[27:50] Houston Texas, the Houston
[27:52] Landrust which we worked on and
[27:54] helped get off the ground has
[27:56] been working on a to design
[28:00] how they move forward through a
[28:01] collaborative process with
[28:02] partners across the country.
[28:02] that's a good example in a very
[28:06] large city. one of the more
[28:06] interesting examples that we
[28:08] like to think of talk about
[28:10] is what's happening in the
[28:11] Richmond Virginia area so the
[28:12] maggie Walkerunity Landrust
[28:14] is is about
[28:18] roughly 10 years old they're in
[28:19] not just the city of Richmond
[28:20] but two adjacent counties and
[28:22] there are a hybrid Virginia law
[28:24] which I think is a good model
[28:26] allows the land bank
[28:28] jurisdiction to use the term
[28:32] that's in SB1478 to approve
[28:32] existing nonprofits as a land
[28:36] bank. So Maggie Walker in
[28:38] Richmondvirginia is the land
[28:40] bank for the city of Richmond
[28:42] plus henrico and Chesterfield
[28:44] counties and that allows the
[28:45] process to be a little bit more
[28:45] effici
[28:48] ent and today in the city of
[28:50] Richmond about 37 properties
[28:54] have been come under control
[28:56] of the land bank 30 through the
[28:58] tax foreclosure lien process
[29:00] which is critical6 through
[29:02] donations by the municipality by
[29:04] the city of Richmond that were
[29:06] seen as surplus land for the
[29:08] city and then one which is an
[29:10] interesting example was a a
[29:10] donation of a branch by the Bank
[29:12] of America and that is currently
[29:14] undergoing considerations
[29:18] for for how it can become a more
[29:19] productive use. so there's lots
[29:20] of different ways that
[29:22] properties come to the land bank
[29:24] and that's what's I think
[29:26] critical is that the land bank
[29:28] processes to be open and and and
[29:30] it's acquisition process. Good
[29:32] examples also exist in Minnesota
[29:34] and then one thing that's
[29:36] notable is that in Ohio there
[29:38] are 88 counties,71 of those
[29:40] counties have a land bank and
[29:42] the law has been on the books
[29:44] for about 20 years but in2015
[29:45] the Ohio legislature
[29:47] updated it and that was able to
[29:50] expand the ability of counties
[29:52] to create land banks and that
[29:54] included many rural counties
[29:54] throughout the state and many of
[29:56] the larger cities as well. So
[29:58] there's lots of good examples
[30:00] it's a very diverse group of
[30:02] land banks but also
[30:04] communities and also a processes
[30:05] to get there
[30:10] in this final one example is
[30:12] happening in atlanta. they
[30:12] have recently updated their
[30:14] policy in2024. there's a
[30:16] relationship between the Atlanta
[30:18] metroland Bank and the Atlanta
[30:19] Landrust. the Atlanta Landrust
[30:20] again is another partner member
[30:22] of our organization that
[30:24] works on affordable
[30:26] homeownership and housing in
[30:28] that region. there's a pilot
[30:30] program this link would actually
[30:31] work if you wanted to explore a
[30:32] little bit more about what's
[30:34] going on in atlanta. they have a
[30:36] robust methodology to ensure
[30:37] that there's long term
[30:37] affordability for multi
[30:40] ple generations they prior
[30:42] prioritize the disposition of
[30:44] certain types of properties and
[30:46] they ensure that the conveyance
[30:49] or the discounted sale makes
[30:50] those deals work so they have a
[30:52] a ceiling on the price is a
[30:54] share of the fair market value
[30:56] that these properties can be
[30:56] disposed of to nonprofits but
[30:58] that again allows the properties
[31:00] to pencil out for the projects
[31:04] to pencil out and growing and
[31:06] growingly expensive market in
[31:07] Atlanta.
[31:11] so with that I'm done again I
[31:12] appreciate the time to speak
[31:14] before you and the committee and
[31:16] thank you again madam chair and
[31:17] thank you again Senator Kkirk
[31:18] granted solutions is here to be
[31:20] helpful in any way that we
[31:22] possibly can. we are working in
[31:23] Oklahoma we are committed to
[31:24] working with new partners across
[31:26] the state and we look forward to
[31:28] working with the committee, your
[31:30] staff and anybody else that's
[31:30] interested in talking talking
[31:32] with us about affordable housing
[31:34] and housing with lasting
[31:35] affordability. thank you again.
[31:38] thank you so much Mr Ryan. If if
[31:40] you're able to stay till the end
[31:43] just in case there's questions
[31:44] I'd appreciate it Absolutely
[31:46] Great thank you thank you for
[31:48] that presentation for giving us
[31:49] some some great national models
[31:50] to look at. I appreciate it so
[31:52] much. next up I'm pleased to
[31:54] introduce Angieerker she's an
[31:56] Oklahoma attorney and realtor
[31:58] and she has a real passion for
[32:00] land banks and really put it on
[32:02] my radar so I'm pleased to
[32:02] hear what she wants to
[32:03] highlight.
[32:06] well thank you for taking my
[32:08] call a couple of years ago and
[32:09] listening to me. I really
[32:10] appreciate it. Thank you Doug. I
[32:12] really appreciate what you said
[32:13] and Katrina too you guys have
[32:14] really explained very well
[32:16] how land banks work and what
[32:17] they do and how they will
[32:18] benefit Oklahomans. I'm gonna
[32:20] talk a little bit about the
[32:24] the land bank legislation itself
[32:26] and I also want to thank my
[32:26] students who are probably
[32:28] watching because I bribed them
[32:29] with extra credit if they will
[32:30] watch this so thank you guys
[32:34] ok so oh I guess I need to do
[32:35] this here we go
[32:35] no
[32:39] Which one
[32:44] it's not working
[32:47] there we go.
[32:49] OK ok so who does this bill
[32:50] matter to first of all it's
[32:52] going to matter to Oklahomans
[32:53] who need affordable housing and
[32:54] we know that we have a lot of
[32:56] people who are in the low income
[32:58] and moderate income and even
[32:59] what you would consider a median
[33:02] income who cannot afford homes
[33:03] whether it's renting or
[33:04] purchasing it matters to i
[33:06] municipalities for dealing with
[33:07] that lack of affordable housing
[33:08] it's been in the news we have a
[33:10] lack of affordable housing in
[33:12] this state and this land bank
[33:13] legislation is a wonderful
[33:14] vehicle a wonderful tool to help
[33:15] municipalities
[33:19] address that need nonprofits
[33:22] like Katrina's and doug's and
[33:23] anyone else here who's
[33:24] representing a nonprofit who has
[33:26] a passion for affordable housing
[33:29] it's going to help you also be a
[33:30] party to the land bank and help
[33:31] create more affordable housing
[33:34] and developers construction
[33:36] companies, crews people who care
[33:38] about building and creating
[33:39] affordable housing in their
[33:40] communities they can turn these
[33:42] problem properties into
[33:43] affordable housing
[33:45] so today we're gonna talk about
[33:48] oh that really worked what
[33:50] SB147 does and doesn't do what
[33:52] it says what it doesn't says I'm
[33:54] gonna respond to a couple of
[33:55] concerns from opposing
[33:56] stakeholders and hopefully I
[33:58] will allay your fears and I'm
[34:00] gonna recommend a few targeted
[34:01] changes that might help us still
[34:02] succeed in the2027 session
[34:06] so our housing paradox here in
[34:08] Oklahoma we have about220,000
[34:10] plus vacant housing units and
[34:12] that's across the state. I'm
[34:13] talking about the entire state
[34:14] you can find that information in
[34:17] the housing finance agencies's
[34:19] yearly housing needs assessment
[34:20] we have about 80,000 plus rental
[34:22] homes that we need and this is
[34:24] for the lowest tier income
[34:26] Oklahomans and you can go to the
[34:28] Oklahoma watchchmarch2026
[34:30] study and read that there we
[34:32] have roughly 12,000 vacant or
[34:33] abandoned buildings just in
[34:36] the OKC metro area so for this
[34:38] statistic you can go to the
[34:39] city of Oklahoma City's
[34:40] estimation of what's out there
[34:43] vacant tax delinquent
[34:45] property is a resource a vital
[34:46] resource that we have that is
[34:48] just sitting idle it's it's
[34:50] costing us money it is not doing
[34:52] anything for the neighborhoods
[34:53] where it is it is causing
[34:57] concern and and crime and it
[34:58] security and all of the things
[35:00] that that a a property can
[35:01] negatively affect it is causing
[35:02] that to happen and the land
[35:03] banks this legisl
[35:06] ation is going to be that legal
[35:07] tool that lets whatever
[35:08] community it's in turn that
[35:10] problem property into a
[35:12] profitable and productive
[35:14] resource and become affordable
[35:15] housing or as doug mentioned
[35:16] affordable
[35:18] commercial property as well
[35:20] someone wanting to start maybe a
[35:21] small business
[35:25] what does usB1478 actually do it
[35:28] creates a quasigovernmental and
[35:29] I'll tell you why I call it that
[35:30] in just a second but it's it's a
[35:33] it's a public private
[35:34] agreement organization that
[35:36] gives whatever municipality
[35:39] chooses to create one the power
[35:39] to
[35:42] to take vacant abandoned
[35:44] dilapidated property with with
[35:46] cloud and title with issues it
[35:47] allows them to one
[35:52] wash what is owed on taxes they
[35:54] wipe the tax delinquency clear
[35:56] and then the most important
[35:57] thing like Katrina was talking
[35:58] about one of those holding
[36:00] issues and the time constraint
[36:03] issues is they allow the land
[36:06] bank to clear the title that is
[36:07] a lot of times the one thing
[36:09] keeping a piece of property in
[36:11] its state of disrepair in its
[36:12] state of just becoming a drain
[36:15] on society we can clear that
[36:16] title and get it back into
[36:17] productive and profitable use.
[36:20] the land bank will identify
[36:22] these properties they are vacant
[36:24] they are abandoned they are tax
[36:24] delinquent and they are within
[36:26] whatever jurisdiction that land
[36:27] that land bank
[36:28] covers
[36:32] they will then acquire those
[36:32] they can acquire them through
[36:34] tax foreclosure through
[36:35] donations through purchase
[36:37] through municipal transfer. they
[36:39] will then hold and prepare that
[36:42] land for productive use and
[36:44] that's when they clear the title
[36:45] that's when they ready it they
[36:46] cut the grass they ensure
[36:48] security they put it into a
[36:50] state of basically think of it
[36:51] like it's now for sale and
[36:52] you're showing the property kind
[36:54] of they stage it right that kind
[36:55] of idea they're getting it ready
[36:55] to go out to the public
[36:59] they then return it to pub
[37:01] productive public use it's
[37:02] conveyed as public space it
[37:05] can be conveyed as public or
[37:06] affordable housing directly from
[37:10] the land bank and it can
[37:12] follow whatever local priorities
[37:13] are set within that land bank so
[37:14] what's good for Oklahoma City's
[37:16] landba may not be good for ryan
[37:18] County's land bank and vice
[37:20] versa so each land bank is able
[37:21] to set their community goals
[37:25] accountability is built into
[37:27] this legislation there is no
[37:28] power of eminent domain so
[37:30] people do not need to worry
[37:30] about the government coming and
[37:32] just taking their property there
[37:34] is no takings clause in this
[37:37] legislation it expressly denies
[37:40] eminent domain full stop the
[37:41] open meeting and open records
[37:42] acts do apply to this so any
[37:44] board meetings that happen and
[37:45] any meetings that occur with
[37:48] whomever the land bank wants to
[37:49] meet with are subject to that
[37:52] board members for the land bank
[37:54] they serve without compensation
[37:57] it is no salary no per diem
[37:58] beyond reasonable expenses and
[38:01] it is a volunteer opportunity
[38:02] to give back to your
[38:04] municipality theres a
[38:06] conflict of interest clause
[38:07] built in no board member or
[38:08] employee of the land bank can
[38:10] hold an interest in any land
[38:11] meaning real or vacant land
[38:16] or contracts no contracts are
[38:17] allowed to be held by board
[38:17] members or employees
[38:20] bonds I know doug mentioned
[38:22] bonds a minute ago and I just
[38:24] want to ensure that they are not
[38:26] backed by taxpayers whatever
[38:27] bonds are issued by the land
[38:28] bank are not the debt of any
[38:30] city municipality, county state
[38:31] they are the debt of the land
[38:31] bank itself.
[38:36] so a minute ago I mentioned no
[38:38] eminent domain that is a fear
[38:39] that I think a lot of people
[38:40] have with land bank legislation
[38:43] I just want to be very clear
[38:46] that no imminent domain exists
[38:47] anywhere in this bill it is not
[38:48] allowed it's not there so I hope
[38:50] I have allayed that fear. Every
[38:52] land bank is also an opt in
[38:54] municipalities do not have to
[38:56] adopt land bank legislation
[38:57] within their jurisdiction but
[38:58] they can choose to do so and
[39:00] Doug mentioned a wonderful
[39:02] array of opportunities you have
[39:03] to create the land banks
[39:03] current nonprofits
[39:06] creating a new one there are
[39:08] several options the goal of the
[39:10] land bank is not to hold and
[39:13] hoard property it is to exit
[39:14] that property to take it from
[39:16] that vacant abandoned
[39:18] dilapidated state that it is in
[39:20] to put it into this productive
[39:23] holding pattern and get it out
[39:24] the door get it donated to a
[39:26] nonprofit get it sold to a
[39:28] nonprofit, get it back out
[39:29] there, get it sold to an
[39:31] individual get it back out
[39:32] there into productive use
[39:33] generating positive taxes right
[39:36] positives property taxes
[39:40] Another fear is that this is
[39:42] going to cost taxpayers I've
[39:44] already mentioned that any bonds
[39:45] associated with landbank are
[39:46] not the responsibility of the
[39:48] taxpayers there is no
[39:51] mandatory tax appropriation we
[39:52] are funded we the land banks are
[39:54] funded by grants loans and self-
[39:56] generated income.land banks are
[39:59] allowed to hold some property
[40:00] to generate income they can
[40:02] charge rents they can charge
[40:04] they can sell it and and the
[40:04] income they get from those those
[40:07] fees help generate more land for
[40:07] more nonprofits more
[40:09] people.
[40:11] again I've mentioned board
[40:12] members serve without
[40:13] compensation there are no
[40:16] salaries the debt stays with the
[40:17] land bank it does not go to the
[40:19] public I've mentioned already
[40:20] that bonds are the land bank's
[40:22] own limited obligation and must
[40:24] say so in that wording on the
[40:25] face of the bont
[40:28] municipalities and states are
[40:30] not liable. The tax capture is a
[40:32] net gain rather than a loss
[40:33] right now these properties are
[40:34] sitting there the taxes are not
[40:36] being paid the bills are adding
[40:38] up we we have to cut the grass
[40:40] we have to ensure security that
[40:42] costs money so it's a drain on
[40:44] the municipality oncece a landba
[40:46] takes that property and puts it
[40:47] back out into productive use
[40:50] there's a 5 year50% tax revenue
[40:52] share plan so for five years the
[40:54] land bank gets the half of the
[40:55] tax revenue and the municipality
[40:56] gets the other half at the end
[40:58] of that five years it all goes
[41:00] to the municipality that helps
[41:01] fund the land bank's
[41:01] work
[41:08] Another fear is loss of local
[41:08] control
[41:12] the state is not mandating
[41:13] through this legislation that
[41:14] any municipality has to create a
[41:16] land bank it is not saying that
[41:18] at all jurisdictions and
[41:20] municipalities have that choice
[41:22] themselves your board for
[41:23] your land bank and your
[41:26] jurisdiction is filled with your
[41:28] members of your community it is
[41:30] filled with it it is run
[41:32] through your local bylaws that
[41:34] you create it sets local
[41:35] priorities again something
[41:38] that's good for Oklahoma City
[41:39] might not be good forhaie. Sha
[41:41] ie gets to set their own their
[41:42] own agenda for their their land
[41:44] bbake. Oklahoma City sets theirs
[41:46] so that it matches the needs of
[41:47] the people living in those
[41:48] jurisdictions if you so
[41:50] choose to dissolve a land ba at
[41:52] any time that is also on the
[41:53] local level you do not have to
[41:55] get permission from the state or
[41:56] anyone else to disband or
[41:57] dissolve your land bank.
[42:02] OK what can we do to maybe
[42:04] strengthen the legislation going
[42:07] into the2027 s session
[42:10] section 9E has a youth hierarchy
[42:11] and I think that something that
[42:12] we could possibly do here is
[42:14] instead of using the word may we
[42:16] could use the word must which
[42:17] has a little more teeth to it
[42:17] making
[42:22] affordable housing set asides
[42:24] a must for land banks and you do
[42:26] that by you can create
[42:28] covenants that target low income
[42:30] housing you can also put deed
[42:32] restrictions on the properties
[42:33] doug mentioned something like
[42:35] this a minute ago keeping that
[42:36] affordable housing in the
[42:38] affordable housing stream no
[42:39] matter who buys or sells it or
[42:41] rents it so if I purchased a
[42:43] home for $100,000 I am allowed
[42:46] growth it is a slower and lower
[42:47] percentage of growth and maybe
[42:48] the houses around me but I am
[42:49] allowed growth
[42:52] and then if I choose to sell I
[42:53] am bound by a deed restriction
[42:54] to sell with that limited
[42:56] growth. I still get to make a
[42:57] profit. I'm still a private
[42:58] citizen who has now equity in my
[43:00] home and it is growing just like
[43:02] the equity around me it's just
[43:04] at a more affordable level so
[43:05] that the next person who
[43:06] purchases my home can also
[43:07] afford it
[43:10] we can require a community
[43:12] engagement plan the theenter for
[43:14] Community Progress if you do not
[43:16] understand land banks or want to
[43:17] know more at all please go to
[43:19] their website they have the most
[43:21] amazing information it is
[43:22] anything you want to know about
[43:24] a land bank current future
[43:25] whatever you want to know
[43:27] they've got the information
[43:30] resident trust public trust
[43:32] private trust is is really
[43:32] something that we need to
[43:35] continue to focus on and
[43:36] there's no requirement in the
[43:37] legislation today so possibly
[43:37] putting
[43:39] something in there where we we
[43:41] have some community engagement
[43:43] within the bill might give
[43:43] might allay some fears of the
[43:44] public
[43:48] broader regional formation
[43:49] I've said over and over that
[43:50] this is the choice of the
[43:52] municipality or jurisdiction
[43:54] creating it but we could also
[43:54] maybe put something in the bill
[43:56] that allows those jurisdictions
[43:57] to band together because we have
[43:59] some smaller jurisdictions who
[44:01] may not be able to take on
[44:03] this this in their their single
[44:04] jurisdiction so they could band
[44:06] together with some smaller
[44:06] communities around them and
[44:08] create a larger land bank
[44:10] that serves the people in those
[44:12] concurrent jurisdictions that
[44:12] form that land bank.
[44:16] we can also add additional
[44:18] annual public reporting maybe we
[44:19] require a yearly report on the
[44:20] properties acquired the
[44:22] properties disposed of and the
[44:24] outcomes achieved by all of
[44:25] those properties this
[44:27] directly answers cost and it
[44:28] also gives a lot of transparency
[44:29] from the land bank to the people
[44:30] it serves
[44:35] OK so I of course am in favor of
[44:37] the land bacon I just wanted to
[44:38] let you all know how the
[44:40] current legislation sits what we
[44:41] could possibly do to make it
[44:43] even better and any address any
[44:44] fears that anyone has about it
[44:47] currently I've got my contact
[44:48] information
[44:51] I think on the next slide no we
[44:53] do not. OK I will get my contact
[44:54] information for you if you have
[44:55] any questions I'm happy to speak
[44:55] to you
[44:58] at length about this but thank
[44:59] you madam chairir, thank you
[45:00] Julia again for taking the time
[45:02] to listen to me and put this
[45:03] together. I really appreciate it
[45:04] thank you Katrina for your input
[45:05] and doug as well.
[45:08] thank you so much I appreciate
[45:10] you I do want to move to our
[45:12] last speaker before we do any
[45:14] closing or questions I'm very
[45:17] appreciative of doctor Reading
[45:19] from the absenteehawneehousing
[45:22] Authority we we have many
[45:24] different we had a big long list
[45:26] of of great speakers that we
[45:28] could recruit but we knew that
[45:29] we wanted to hear from someone
[45:31] outside the OKC intulsa metro
[45:32] because it's just a different
[45:34] scenario and we know that
[45:35] they've been doing strong work
[45:35] for a long time sos thank you
[45:36] very much
[45:37] for being here today
[45:47] day to day on the chiropractor
[45:48] for the adenteehawnee tribal
[45:50] healthystem and I sit on the
[45:51] board at the absentee Shawnee
[45:52] housing Authority.
[45:54] that really means two things
[45:57] I have a passion for affordable
[46:00] housing and I usually spend my
[46:02] week with people who don't have
[46:03] a chance to sit at the table
[46:06] like I am today. right now
[46:08] across rural Oklahoma we got
[46:10] wonderful people a young medical
[46:12] assistant at a rural hospital,
[46:14] middle aged elementary school
[46:15] teacher or a newly hired
[46:17] sheriff's deputy who show up,
[46:18] work their tails off for their
[46:19] community day in and day out
[46:22] but when their shift ends a lot
[46:24] of them have to drive45 minutes
[46:26] to an hour just to find a safe
[46:27] affordable place to sleep.
[46:30] we like to call this the missing
[46:33] middle housing problem but out
[46:34] in our rural communities it's
[46:35] pretty simple
[46:37] our workers want to live where
[46:38] they serve but the
[46:40] infrastructure and labor costs
[46:41] leave our local builders unable
[46:42] to meet that demand.
[46:43] so what are we supposed to do
[46:43] about it
[46:54] as some of the previous speakers
[46:55] have shown
[46:59] it's a familiar sight in small
[47:00] towns everywhere and overgrown
[47:02] vacant lot stood an awkward leap
[47:03] between two well-maintained
[47:03] homes
[47:05] a patient of mine owned
[47:08] one of those now vacant lots
[47:12] he and his siblings inherited
[47:14] their child at home about 20
[47:15] years ago in lawwton.
[47:16] but could never agree on what to
[47:17] do with it.
[47:20] so it sat vacant for years
[47:23] and eventually the city
[47:23] condemned it
[47:26] with code leans piling up far
[47:29] beyond the now empty lot's value
[47:29] the family just walked away
[47:32] now it's just dead weight and
[47:33] county rolls
[47:34] and somebody's got to mow it
[47:39] and there's more baby boomers
[47:40] pass away and properties stall
[47:42] and probate this won't be an
[47:43] isolated incident
[47:46] Most of us understand when a
[47:48] business opportunity has
[47:50] uncertain costs and legal
[47:52] unknowns private capital walks
[47:53] away every single time
[47:56] our local builders won't touch
[47:58] these vacant lots because
[47:59] clearing the title costs more
[48:00] than the dirt itself is worth.
[48:07] so one solution
[48:08] is a land bank
[48:12] as described in previous
[48:14] presentations. However, a small
[48:16] town of 1500 can't afford to
[48:18] hire another attorney for two or
[48:19] three overgrown lots a year
[48:23] if we force rural towns to build
[48:25] urbanstyle land banks from
[48:26] scratch they'll fall flat on
[48:27] their face
[48:36] so this bill has a way around
[48:38] that which I do appreciate.
[48:40] Rural municipalities take pride
[48:41] in running their own affairs
[48:43] that's why this is a 100%
[48:45] voluntary and towns and counties
[48:46] can join hands across judicial
[48:48] districts using standard
[48:51] interlocal cooperation templates
[48:54] that is a long word for that.
[48:56] to share legal costs and clean
[48:57] up titles in bulk.
[49:00] this bill isn't the government
[49:02] playing developer it's the
[49:04] government getting out of the
[49:06] way by clearing legal obstacles
[49:07] so builders can actually build
[49:10] and because legal fees are
[49:12] recovered directly from the land
[49:14] bank's property sales it turns
[49:16] these vacant lots from zero
[49:18] revenue liabilities and to s
[49:20] into a self sustaining cycle
[49:22] without state constant
[49:22] appropriations.
[49:33] what should happen to this land
[49:35] once the land bank clears up the
[49:37] title. We can't let out of state
[49:38] private developers swoop in
[49:40] put up cheap speculative short
[49:41] term rentals
[49:43] and drain money out of our rural
[49:44] communities.
[49:47] Once the land bank clears off
[49:50] those old lanes the clean title
[49:51] can go directly to community
[49:53] partners like our local housing
[49:54] authorities rural school
[49:56] districts nonprofit builders and
[49:57] local contractors who live down
[49:57] the street.
[50:02] Downtown lots and small towns
[50:03] are a great fit for
[50:03] organizations like mine.
[50:06] since the roads and utilities
[50:08] are already there we can turn a
[50:09] clean title into a finished home
[50:09] in just six months.
[50:12] h r land banks we can unlock
[50:14] these neglected properties and
[50:16] help revitalize communities one
[50:17] home at a time
[50:19] we just wrapped up building
[50:22] a home on Main street in
[50:24] Tecumseh on a lot similar to
[50:25] something that we could acquire
[50:25] from a land bank.
[50:29] this loan is actually big enough
[50:31] we'll be adding a second home
[50:33] there in the future but for now
[50:34] at least one family has a safe
[50:35] affordable home.
[50:39] during this whole process the
[50:40] local community retains total
[50:42] flexibility if a private builder
[50:44] wants to pay a lot for a lot at
[50:46] market value great that just
[50:47] means the land bank has more
[50:48] money
[50:49] to do their due
[50:53] if the town needs workforce
[50:54] housing for local firefighters
[50:56] they have the option to add deep
[50:58] covenants so the house stays
[51:00] affordable for the folks who
[51:01] actually keep their town
[51:01] running.
[51:08] so let's just say this land bank
[51:12] legislation passes everything
[51:14] works according to plan and now
[51:16] the developer has a clean title
[51:17] and a plot of land ready to be
[51:18] developed. where are they going
[51:19] to get the financing?
[51:22] Oklahoma already has some great
[51:24] tools to help those rural
[51:26] developers build new homes like
[51:29] the OfA administrated0% home
[51:31] stability loans and the Oklahoma
[51:32] Housing Trustund which legally
[51:35] sets aside65 to75% of its
[51:36] dollars for non urban
[51:37] communities.
[51:41] my organization was the first
[51:42] housing authority in the state
[51:44] to use the0% home stability
[51:45] loans
[51:48] the project should be completed
[51:49] in November
[51:52] it will add 8 new affordable
[51:54] housing units to las area near
[51:55] Lake Thunderbird.
[51:57] right now many of our local
[52:01] and rural towns miss out on
[52:03] these state programs simply
[52:04] because they can't assemble
[52:06] clean buildable dirt fast enough
[52:11] Lambbank's hand local builders a
[52:13] clean padready footprint so they
[52:14] can pour concrete on day one.
[52:18] Land banks are statutory
[52:20] passthrough entities they clear
[52:21] the title, pass the dirt to a
[52:22] builder and get it back onto the
[52:24] county tax rolls to fund our
[52:25] local schools in county first
[52:25] responders
[52:28] a land bank gives our rural
[52:30] communities the legal tools to
[52:31] build their own future
[52:32] thank you so much for your time
[52:38] thank you so much Dr I really
[52:40] appreciate those examples and
[52:41] that it's great to hear about
[52:42] the housing stability fund being
[52:44] put to work really pleased
[52:46] and hope that thought's
[52:46] generating lots of opportunities
[52:49] all across the state madam
[52:50] chairir if you have any
[52:52] questions I have one or two but
[52:53] defer to you if you have
[52:56] anything you wanted to ask. I do
[52:58] whoever wants to answer this,
[53:00] I'm particularly interested in
[53:02] the actual mechanics of how this
[53:04] is going to work so what are the
[53:05] timelines of
[53:08] walk me through the process of
[53:10] how long it takes for a property
[53:12] to become potentially delinquent
[53:14] and at that point and how does
[53:16] it actually get put into the
[53:18] land bank if this were to be a
[53:20] tool that the state had I I'd
[53:22] like to understand like what
[53:23] that process actually looks
[53:23] like.
[53:25] Angie is that you
[53:26] so
[53:32] the process in Oklahoma is about
[53:34] a three year process to become
[53:35] tax delinquent to go to a tax
[53:36] foreclosure sale that's how it
[53:38] currently works please somebody
[53:40] correct me if I'm off on that
[53:40] but it's about a three year
[53:42] process before you end up in tax
[53:43] foreclosure
[53:46] the land bank would be set up
[53:47] within the jurisdiction that it
[53:50] encompasses and that
[53:52] jurisdiction would create the
[53:53] process that you're asking about
[53:55] so the legislation does not
[53:58] speak to that process that is
[53:59] set up by the land bank once it
[54:00] is established through their
[54:03] local bylaws and that would fit
[54:04] excuse me that would fit
[54:06] whatever the local municipality
[54:10] jurisdictions community needs
[54:12] are so whatever the the
[54:13] community wants and needs that's
[54:14] how it will be set up but it
[54:15] could be donated from the
[54:18] the city let's just say Oklahoma
[54:20] cityity the count Oklahohoma
[54:22] County Taxmission has a list
[54:24] right? They could auction it off
[54:26] and we could be the bidder the
[54:27] land bank could be the bidder
[54:28] they could donate it properly
[54:30] they just can't get rid of they
[54:31] can donate it the land bank
[54:32] if it has funds can purchase
[54:34] them at auction. there are just
[54:35] a a bunch of different ways that
[54:36] that can happen but the the
[54:40] the function that you're asking
[54:41] about is going to be set up once
[54:42] bylaws are created by that
[54:44] specific land bank so it stays
[54:45] local
[54:50] yeah well to that point so I
[54:52] mean none of this would speed up
[54:53] that foreclosure process or the
[54:54] tax delinquency process but on
[54:58] the other end if there was a
[54:59] procedure in place once a
[55:01] property became tax delinquent
[55:02] whatever waiting periods have
[55:05] already been legally followed
[55:07] would I mean what kind of
[55:08] timeline would it take if a land
[55:10] bank were able to take that
[55:12] transfer quickly? could it be a
[55:13] six month process shorter what
[55:15] what are your thoughts or maybe
[55:16] that's a question for maybe
[55:17] that's a question for doug
[55:18] Ryan to talk about
[55:20] I don't know Katrina do you want
[55:23] to take that it would also
[55:25] depend on what lean so it would
[55:26] be it would have to go through
[55:28] the process of clearing the
[55:30] liens so this is just an
[55:32] estimate more of a
[55:34] guesstimate probably 3 to6
[55:36] months so we would have to
[55:37] determine what liens are on
[55:38] there what would have to be
[55:40] cleared if it's just a matter
[55:43] of clearing some tax liens I
[55:46] know one example of hearing
[55:47] about some medical liens that
[55:48] might take a little bit longer
[55:49] to clear
[55:52] but if it's just coming in from
[55:53] tax foreclosure then that would
[55:55] be a matter of clearing the
[55:56] clearing the title taking it
[55:58] through that process for
[56:01] Oklahoma knowing about the
[56:03] typical foreclosure process I
[56:04] would say an estimate of 3 to6
[56:09] months would you comment on I'm
[56:12] assuming that this could be
[56:13] there could be a stipulation
[56:14] that these properties would only
[56:17] go into commercial use or or
[56:18] private ownership so you know
[56:19] since
[56:20] nonprofits don't pay property
[56:22] tax I just want to spell out
[56:23] that like a county could create
[56:24] a land bank and then they could
[56:26] require that that property only
[56:27] be transferred to future
[56:29] taxpaying ownership right
[56:33] yes so the once the property is
[56:34] transferred from the land bank
[56:36] to whichever entity or private
[56:39] citizen or construction
[56:40] developer that that that five
[56:42] year sharing tax revenue
[56:44] sharing plan goes into place and
[56:45] then after that it goes straight
[56:45] to the county
[56:50] tax commissioner you can also
[56:51] s stipulate within the deeds
[56:53] that it stay within a taxc
[56:53] creating use
[56:56] deed restrictions are definitely
[56:58] allowed and again that's going
[56:58] to serve whatever jurisdiction
[56:59] or municipality that it's in
[57:02] and then I just have one
[57:03] question for Doug. Doug, would
[57:05] you speak specifically to
[57:08] examples you've seen in rural
[57:10] areas where you think this is an
[57:11] effective process
[57:15] Yeah, sure absolutely I do think
[57:16] there's a couple examples and I
[57:19] noted that Ohio has expanded
[57:21] their land bank authority so
[57:22] many rural counties in in that
[57:24] state do have land banks and I
[57:26] think they're just starting to
[57:27] get off the ground in some cases
[57:28] and I'd be happy to provide more
[57:30] examples but I do think some
[57:31] other examples include Kentucky
[57:32] where land banks have been
[57:35] fairly effective it seems to me
[57:36] from my my reading what's
[57:39] going on in Kentucky and a
[57:40] couple of other places too. I
[57:42] mentioned Indiana and Kansas. I
[57:43] do think there's
[57:45] a there is some recognition that
[57:46] a lot of this did begin in urban
[57:48] areas but it has moved to be
[57:50] more to be an effective tool in
[57:52] rural areas but I think what's
[57:53] critical to understand and again
[57:54] I'm happy to build out more
[57:56] examples as a follow up is
[57:57] that
[58:00] because these are really locally
[58:01] controlled you can respond to
[58:04] land bank process can respond to
[58:05] their local conditions on the
[58:08] ground and put in priorities
[58:09] for commercial use for for
[58:11] taxable use or for housing and I
[58:12] think that's critically
[58:13] important as some of my
[58:14] colleagues had identified but
[58:16] there are definitely some good
[58:17] examples out there and I'd be
[58:18] happy to get some more specifics
[58:21] Great I appreciate that I means
[58:22] and also some of the biggest
[58:27] housing work being done in our
[58:28] states by tribal governments and
[58:29] I think that's really important
[58:30] to look at those relationships
[58:33] too OKok any last questions
[58:40] I think we will wrap up you all
[58:41] have been incredibly efficient
[58:42] thank you for making this work.
[58:44] I think it's awesome to be able
[58:46] to connect this tool as an
[58:48] option in this day of looking at
[58:50] those ways that we can improve
[58:52] housing supply I think you
[58:54] know one of the great things
[58:55] about this option is they can
[58:57] help us you know build that
[58:59] starter home ownership option
[59:02] and affordable homes along with
[59:03] having the priority of thriving
[59:04] communities and looking at that
[59:05] deep challenge that our
[59:06] communities face with vacant
[59:08] and abandoned properties
[59:10] underutilized properties and how
[59:12] we can get them active and
[59:14] serving good purposes again so
[59:16] I'm thrilled to to put this
[59:17] forward as a possible tool and
[59:18] appreciate having the time to
[59:20] focus on this and you know
[59:22] helping more Oklahomans have
[59:24] options for the American dream
[59:25] so thank you very much madam
[59:25] chairir.
[59:28] thank you senatorkirk thank you
[59:30] all for joining us today we're
[59:31] going to take a quick break and
[59:32] we will be back with
[59:32] Senatorallaer.
[59:34] thank you so much
[1:07:50] OK thank you everyone we are
[1:07:51] ahead of schedule
[1:07:52] it's how I like to run things if
[1:07:54] you've been in this committee
[1:07:57] ever before Senatoralahar are
[1:07:59] all of your presenters here your
[1:08:01] speakers everybody ready?
[1:08:02] Yes madamir
[1:08:04] little housekeeping just like
[1:08:06] last time very casual, I'll let
[1:08:08] you run your meeting you
[1:08:09] don't have to work through the
[1:08:11] chair opening up for questions
[1:08:12] and with that Senatoralahar
[1:08:13] floor' yours
[1:08:15] thank you madam chairman first
[1:08:18] time to welcome everybody to the
[1:08:19] interim study on increasing
[1:08:20] workforce housing production
[1:08:22] through public private
[1:08:24] partnerships I think this is
[1:08:25] extremely valuable
[1:08:26] information will be presented
[1:08:28] today and I'm looking forward to
[1:08:30] the presentations and with that
[1:08:31] I'd like to get started madam
[1:08:32] chairirman I'd like to ask
[1:08:37] Tyler Perre to of
[1:08:38] housing forward to starts
[1:08:40] presentations thank you so
[1:08:41] muchsenator thank you madam
[1:08:42] chairir my name is Tyler Perret
[1:08:43] I'm the executive director of
[1:08:45] Housing forward housing
[1:08:47] forward is a two year old
[1:08:48] nonprofit here in the state of
[1:08:50] Oklahoma focused on research
[1:08:52] housing and housing production
[1:08:55] I think as evidenced by the
[1:08:56] number of interim studies today
[1:08:57] on kind of a breadth of issues
[1:08:58] facing housing and housing
[1:09:01] production we can see that
[1:09:02] there is no silver bullet to
[1:09:04] solving issues around
[1:09:06] affordability starter home
[1:09:08] issues and so I think what
[1:09:10] you'll see in in the breadth of
[1:09:11] speakers today but certainly in
[1:09:12] the presentation as well is that
[1:09:13] there's a lot of
[1:09:15] opportunity for us to improve
[1:09:17] the environment to increase
[1:09:18] workforce housing production and
[1:09:20] to increase our ability to meet
[1:09:21] the needs of Oklahomans across
[1:09:24] the state so I'll talk just
[1:09:24] briefly here about what we're
[1:09:26] going to try to cover in a quick
[1:09:28] hour I'll zoom through some
[1:09:30] of the the data around kind of
[1:09:32] where we are in the state of
[1:09:34] Oklahoma around housing and
[1:09:35] housing production
[1:09:36] representative from the Oklahoma
[1:09:38] orklahoma uniformBuilding
[1:09:40] codecommission David atdcock
[1:09:42] we'll speak briefly on some
[1:09:42] building code reform and kind of
[1:09:43] what the OUBcc
[1:09:45] does and some progress that's
[1:09:48] happening in that space and then
[1:09:50] we'll talk more substantially
[1:09:52] about the21st century road to
[1:09:54] housing actct which was federal
[1:09:55] legislation that passed in July
[1:09:57] of last year and kind of how
[1:09:59] Oklahoma stands to benefit from
[1:10:00] some elements of that
[1:10:02] legislation and how we need to
[1:10:03] prepare the state to take
[1:10:04] advantage of a lot of those
[1:10:06] particular opportunities and
[1:10:08] then if we have time I'll opine
[1:10:10] generously about some new
[1:10:12] research around housing on
[1:10:13] faith based
[1:10:15] property and kind of
[1:10:16] unlocking opportunities for that
[1:10:18] so just briefly I mentioned
[1:10:20] Housing forward is a relatively
[1:10:21] new organization in the state we
[1:10:22] believe in an Oklahoma where
[1:10:24] everyone has the freedom freedom
[1:10:25] to live in a home that fits
[1:10:26] their needs their life and their
[1:10:27] future and and really what that
[1:10:28] means is we all need different
[1:10:30] housing typologies across our
[1:10:32] life cycle many of us have lived
[1:10:34] in an apartment many of us have
[1:10:36] lived in a rental house many of
[1:10:38] us own our own homes but we
[1:10:39] don't all do all of those things
[1:10:40] at the same time and we need
[1:10:42] different housing typologies
[1:10:43] across our life cycle and so
[1:10:45] really the work that we do
[1:10:46] focuses on making sure that that
[1:10:48] stock exists so that we can have
[1:10:50] a thro a thriving housing
[1:10:51] ecosystem
[1:10:54] and then obviously we we
[1:10:55] exist to deliver some
[1:10:56] practical solutions and present
[1:10:58] research to to inform policy
[1:11:00] decisions that that bring about
[1:11:01] that reality
[1:11:04] so real quick I'll jump into
[1:11:06] just the state of housing in
[1:11:08] Oklahoma what we've seen over
[1:11:09] the past few years is that the
[1:11:10] rate of home home ownership in
[1:11:14] Oklahoma is declining we used to
[1:11:16] be relatively moderate in our
[1:11:18] positioning state by state in
[1:11:19] the rates of homeownership and
[1:11:20] we're seeing that we dropped
[1:11:22] to41st in just last year
[1:11:23] according to the US Census
[1:11:26] Bureau there's a lot of reasons
[1:11:28] for that but one of them is that
[1:11:30] home prices are continuing to
[1:11:31] increase while incomes
[1:11:34] are increasing at a relatively
[1:11:37] modest rate so there's a lot
[1:11:38] of opportunities that we have at
[1:11:40] the table to start to slow that
[1:11:42] spread between income and home
[1:11:46] price or rental price and again
[1:11:47] many of those have been talked
[1:11:48] about today and other interim
[1:11:48] studies but we're going to talk
[1:11:50] about a few as we move
[1:11:51] through the presentation today
[1:11:54] one of the things that I will
[1:11:56] note is we are seeing some
[1:11:58] pretty significant demographic
[1:12:00] changes across the state
[1:12:02] where we used to see household
[1:12:06] sizes average above 3 people we
[1:12:07] are now seeing household sizes
[1:12:08] average at two people and the
[1:12:10] most common household size
[1:12:11] across the state of Oklahoma is
[1:12:13] two people typically living in
[1:12:15] the same bedroom but our
[1:12:18] house size itself is only
[1:12:20] increasing and now the average
[1:12:21] size of that is roughly2
[1:12:25] 400 square feet. so there
[1:12:26] again as many reasons for that
[1:12:28] that we can talk through today
[1:12:29] but one of them is that we've
[1:12:31] we've really honed in on one
[1:12:32] particular housing typology in
[1:12:34] the state of Oklahoma which is
[1:12:36] the detached single family home
[1:12:37] in Greenfield development and
[1:12:39] so really what we are interested
[1:12:40] in doing across the state is
[1:12:42] diversifying the number of
[1:12:44] housing typologies that we have
[1:12:46] so that we can continue to match
[1:12:47] the demographic trends we're
[1:12:47] seeing from the population
[1:12:50] and with that I'm gonna turn
[1:12:52] it over to David adcock the
[1:12:54] CEO of OUBcC to talk more
[1:12:56] specifically about building code
[1:12:58] and how reform happens in the
[1:12:59] state of Oklahoma.
[1:13:00] thank you
[1:13:04] you as you said umm David adcock
[1:13:06] I'm the CEO of Oklahoma
[1:13:08] uniformedtting Code Commission.
[1:13:11] we were established in2009
[1:13:12] and we were established to
[1:13:17] create a statewide building
[1:13:18] code. just keep working
[1:13:22] it's the off it's the offseason
[1:13:23] in the capitals so we're just
[1:13:24] going to have to keep pushing
[1:13:26] good that construction happens
[1:13:28] exactly as David starts and it's
[1:13:30] kind of amazing very very yes
[1:13:33] appropriate there so yes we were
[1:13:35] we were established in2009 to
[1:13:38] create a minimum building code
[1:13:40] for residential and commercial
[1:13:42] construction to be used for
[1:13:46] all entities in the state umri
[1:13:48] to that there was no review
[1:13:49] process
[1:13:51] of any code. there was national
[1:13:53] code or national model codes
[1:13:54] available that were being
[1:13:56] adopted by the state but they
[1:13:58] were being adopted as published
[1:14:00] the industry as a whole came
[1:14:03] together and looked at what
[1:14:04] could be done and asked the
[1:14:06] legislature to create a process
[1:14:08] that these codes would be
[1:14:10] reviewed prior to their adoption
[1:14:12] to see what was best for
[1:14:14] Oklahoma and create again a
[1:14:15] minimum standard for the state
[1:14:18] of Oklahoma and construction
[1:14:19] the the model codes are
[1:14:21] are published every three years
[1:14:22] with multiple changes in those
[1:14:24] three year periods so there
[1:14:26] was a need to look at those
[1:14:28] changes and not just
[1:14:29] automatically adopt what came
[1:14:30] came through on those
[1:14:34] so the process that was
[1:14:36] developed by the commission was
[1:14:40] there are several codes first
[1:14:40] of all there are several codes
[1:14:44] that the that we look at
[1:14:45] including the fire code and
[1:14:46] plumbing code and mechanical
[1:14:48] code electrical code building
[1:14:49] code and then the residential
[1:14:52] code these are all
[1:14:55] individually reviewed by a
[1:14:56] committee that committee is made
[1:14:58] up of volunteers that the
[1:15:00] committee selects from that
[1:15:01] volunteer
[1:15:03] list and it's based on their
[1:15:04] background and their expertise
[1:15:06] in that code related to what we
[1:15:08] will be reviewing for that
[1:15:09] technical committee so
[1:15:13] the commission then solicits
[1:15:15] changes and change proposals to
[1:15:18] those national codes so the
[1:15:19] public and the industry as a
[1:15:22] whole also can then submit those
[1:15:24] code change proposals that
[1:15:25] the technical committee then
[1:15:28] will review and take action on
[1:15:29] either deny or approve or even
[1:15:32] modify those amendments from
[1:15:33] that
[1:15:36] the committee develops a
[1:15:38] presentation for the commission
[1:15:39] it's
[1:15:42] presented then to the commission
[1:15:44] and the commission moves on into
[1:15:46] the rule making process and
[1:15:48] going to the legislature for
[1:15:49] approval for the code.
[1:15:54] so again OUBcC and and what we
[1:15:58] do we we were created one the
[1:16:00] priority was to create this
[1:16:02] minimum state standard for
[1:16:04] construction and then also
[1:16:05] provide training
[1:16:08] throughout the industry in these
[1:16:11] codes that are adopted to
[1:16:14] increase consistency in the
[1:16:17] compliance and regulation of
[1:16:19] those codes one of the things
[1:16:22] that that plague builders and
[1:16:24] the industry as a whole is
[1:16:26] different interpretations of
[1:16:28] those codes you would think
[1:16:30] it would be black and white but
[1:16:32] sometimes it's not you can
[1:16:33] interpret these codes in
[1:16:36] different ways OUBcC has also
[1:16:37] created a
[1:16:38] a formal interpretation
[1:16:40] process for the amendments that
[1:16:43] they do so that again
[1:16:45] reducing the number of ways it
[1:16:46] can be interpreted and
[1:16:48] increasing consistencies these
[1:16:50] consistencies are what sometimes
[1:16:52] will hold up construction
[1:16:54] jobs even in the planning stages
[1:16:56] so again through that
[1:16:58] training process is one way
[1:17:00] we try to reduce that
[1:17:04] but one of the things our our
[1:17:06] process does is try to be
[1:17:08] inclusive and try to get
[1:17:10] everybody involved since I've
[1:17:12] been there in23 we have
[1:17:14] increased that but that
[1:17:16] really is the the point behind
[1:17:19] what we do is there's an
[1:17:21] opportunity for everybody to be
[1:17:22] involved in what the state
[1:17:25] construction code is and in
[1:17:27] doing through going through our
[1:17:30] process I think it's it's a
[1:17:31] good process we just need to get
[1:17:31] more people
[1:17:32] involved in doing that
[1:17:38] it's a good example tyler's
[1:17:39] group housing forward came to us
[1:17:40] while we were reviewing the
[1:17:42] international residential code
[1:17:44] and made some proposals that we
[1:17:48] had to deny simply because they
[1:17:50] would cause conflict with the
[1:17:52] other codes that we had adopted
[1:17:54] so we actually created a
[1:17:58] committee I think his his
[1:17:59] group prem presented with
[1:18:01] amendment after amending their
[1:18:02] initial propo
[1:18:06] s al s in July we had a
[1:18:08] committee a special committee
[1:18:08] together by august
[1:18:14] and we're already meeting and
[1:18:15] we've finished that actual
[1:18:17] committee and there are
[1:18:18] proposals that came out of that
[1:18:21] committee that will affect now
[1:18:24] the24 codes that that go into
[1:18:25] win into effect September 14th
[1:18:30] so yeah ok go ahead
[1:18:35] yeah so as as David mentioned
[1:18:40] building code change should not
[1:18:42] happen quickly and it doesn't
[1:18:44] and that's a good thing we we
[1:18:45] want there to be consistency in
[1:18:47] code and so I think what what
[1:18:49] we have now in in working its
[1:18:52] way through the process at OUBcc
[1:18:53] is representative of a lot of
[1:18:54] feedback a lot of conversation,
[1:18:57] a lot of presentation by experts
[1:18:58] some experts across the country
[1:19:02] and what we see now is is a
[1:19:04] pretty modest and moderate
[1:19:06] path forward in some of these
[1:19:07] building code reforms
[1:19:10] that I think based on my
[1:19:12] opinion creates a potential new
[1:19:14] best practice for a lot of
[1:19:15] states in the country and and
[1:19:18] just to to contrast a little bit
[1:19:19] about what we've seen in some
[1:19:20] other states we've seen a lot of
[1:19:22] whiplash around building code
[1:19:24] reform over the past few years
[1:19:25] where the legislature has taken
[1:19:27] a whole slate of building code
[1:19:29] reforms passed it straight
[1:19:30] through and then left code
[1:19:32] officials fire marshals and
[1:19:34] other people with the loose ends
[1:19:36] to try to tie up what that
[1:19:37] actual statute means
[1:19:39] and we don't have to look too
[1:19:40] far south to our neighbor in
[1:19:42] Texas and Dallas to kind of see
[1:19:44] what impact that has on housing
[1:19:45] production and so what I think
[1:19:47] we have in Oklahoma is a really
[1:19:48] good model for making sure that
[1:19:50] people are at the table making
[1:19:52] sure that we are taking modest
[1:19:53] steps forward that unlock
[1:19:55] housing typologies while also
[1:19:56] keeping people safe and making
[1:19:57] sure that everybody's on the
[1:19:58] same page on how to actually
[1:20:00] implement those reforms. so
[1:20:02] I'll talk about a couple of them
[1:20:03] that came up in theffordable
[1:20:04] housing and consolidated
[1:20:05] dwelling technical codeviewittee
[1:20:06] the
[1:20:11] d c T c c da named it not me
[1:20:14] but but one of them was
[1:20:16] single stair reform there was
[1:20:18] a bill at the legislature last
[1:20:20] year carried by Senator
[1:20:20] Schreiber or I'm
[1:20:22] sorrypresentative Schreiber
[1:20:24] that kind of led us down this
[1:20:26] track and and we were able to
[1:20:28] take that and work it through
[1:20:30] this process in a way that we're
[1:20:31] we were able to come out with a
[1:20:34] pretty well adjusted version
[1:20:35] that models after2024 code
[1:20:38] o plexes under residential
[1:20:40] code which I'll talk about more
[1:20:42] here in a second and then
[1:20:45] thinking about the the
[1:20:46] opportunities of 13D fire
[1:20:48] suppression systems in medium
[1:20:50] sized buildings so in single
[1:20:52] stier form I won't spend too
[1:20:53] long here because it's an
[1:20:56] incredibly technical document
[1:20:57] but it it really is modeled
[1:20:57] after a
[1:21:00] reform proposed at the national
[1:21:03] level E2424 if anybody wants
[1:21:07] to look it up that takes
[1:21:09] an opportunity of a building
[1:21:10] type that we used to build a lot
[1:21:12] of in the state of Oklahoma and
[1:21:13] across the country and kind of
[1:21:16] relegalizes that into in field
[1:21:19] development and then secondly
[1:21:21] another code proposal change
[1:21:22] which was the number4 code
[1:21:26] proposal change allowed for 23
[1:21:27] and4am 3 and four unit dwellings
[1:21:27] to
[1:21:30] be built under residential code.
[1:21:32] So there's two primary building
[1:21:33] codes in the state of Oklahoma
[1:21:34] and David can tell you more
[1:21:36] about them than I can but
[1:21:38] commercial code adds a
[1:21:40] significant number of
[1:21:42] inspection requirements there's
[1:21:44] additional requirements related
[1:21:45] to construction and fire
[1:21:48] suppression and I mean it
[1:21:50] governs everything from now you
[1:21:51] know5 unit buildings up to
[1:21:52] airports and large commercial
[1:21:54] buildings and so really what
[1:21:56] this code is designed to do is
[1:21:57] to say you know these small 3
[1:21:57] and4 plex buildings
[1:22:00] that you see kind of built into
[1:22:02] neighborhoods especially in
[1:22:04] urban areas we believe that we
[1:22:05] can treat those in a similar way
[1:22:06] that we treat a single family
[1:22:08] dwelling with a lot of the same
[1:22:10] building characteristics so
[1:22:12] that's that's kind of what this
[1:22:13] particular code change proposal
[1:22:13] gets to
[1:22:16] the other thing that I will
[1:22:17] mention is that we're going to
[1:22:18] talk about the road to housing
[1:22:19] actct here in a second. but
[1:22:20] there are elements of the road
[1:22:22] to housing actct that also push
[1:22:24] states and governing bodies
[1:22:26] towards some of these very same
[1:22:28] building code change proposals
[1:22:30] so where this putsokklahoma
[1:22:31] right now is that the fortunate
[1:22:34] edge of being ahead of some
[1:22:35] federal policy which we don't
[1:22:36] always get to claim but that's
[1:22:39] exciting so we we get to
[1:22:41] kind of lead some of the the
[1:22:42] work nationally on on this
[1:22:43] particular
[1:22:44] issue area
[1:22:46] and I'll I'll let David
[1:22:48] confirm this particular timeline
[1:22:51] but it's helpful for me to
[1:22:52] understand like yes building
[1:22:54] code change is possible and and
[1:22:56] even preferred through the
[1:22:58] existing systems but it is not a
[1:23:00] slow process and it is
[1:23:04] methodical by by nature so we as
[1:23:05] David mentioned recommended the
[1:23:07] technical committee in May that
[1:23:10] committee was convened in august
[1:23:12] we spent the entire process of
[1:23:13] that I'm sorry it was
[1:23:18] august of25 and then the
[1:23:20] technical committee finalized
[1:23:22] their recommendations in May of
[1:23:23] this year recommended to the
[1:23:24] full commission in August of
[1:23:26] this year they are now in a rule
[1:23:28] drafting process the commission
[1:23:30] will approve those final rules
[1:23:31] before sending them to the
[1:23:32] legislature for review in the
[1:23:34] next session and then those
[1:23:36] building codes go into effect
[1:23:38] likely in fall of2027 if
[1:23:38] everything moves forward on
[1:23:40] schedule. so just so
[1:23:42] everybody is aware of kind of
[1:23:43] the timeline associated with
[1:23:43] that
[1:23:45] David anything else to add on on
[1:23:45] building code?
[1:23:50] no other than on that timeline
[1:23:53] the commission may wish to
[1:23:54] put them in with emergency so
[1:23:56] they would actually affect the24
[1:23:58] adoption as well and then the
[1:24:00] twentyevens as you mentioned
[1:24:02] the27 codes on the national
[1:24:04] codes when they come out the
[1:24:07] changes we did make do model
[1:24:09] those and so they'll just become
[1:24:09] part of that adoption as well.
[1:24:14] that goes live when what did you
[1:24:15] say
[1:24:16] 227 when that's adopted
[1:24:20] sorry the updated
[1:24:22] you repeat what you just said
[1:24:24] sorry you gave a date
[1:24:28] and it the27 codes are coming
[1:24:29] out now so we're gonna start
[1:24:32] reviewing those and what we just
[1:24:33] adopted through the committee
[1:24:34] that Tyler was just talking
[1:24:38] about those are completed and go
[1:24:40] into the rules making process
[1:24:41] but we will probably put them in
[1:24:44] as emergencies because we
[1:24:46] want them to go ahead and be in
[1:24:48] effect being that the
[1:24:50] twenty7h's going to change those
[1:24:51] anyway as well
[1:24:57] fantastic changing directions
[1:25:00] here a little bit is moving
[1:25:01] to the21st century road to
[1:25:02] housing actct so this was a bill
[1:25:05] that was passed a bipartisan
[1:25:08] bill passed by Congress and
[1:25:10] enacted into law in July of this
[1:25:11] year
[1:25:14] it has59 provisions in the act
[1:25:16] and fortunately for everyone in
[1:25:17] this room I will not go through
[1:25:19] all59 provisions of the w1st
[1:25:20] century roadad to Housing Act
[1:25:22] today but I would like to
[1:25:24] highlight just a couple of
[1:25:25] things generally speaking that
[1:25:27] that the state of Oklahoma can
[1:25:28] do to get ready to respond to
[1:25:30] some of the opportunities
[1:25:31] created by the road to Housing
[1:25:33] Act I'd also like to draw
[1:25:34] attention to the QR code on our
[1:25:36] presentation on the Housing
[1:25:38] forward website there is a road
[1:25:40] to housing explorer that we have
[1:25:41] that's available for people
[1:25:41] where you can
[1:25:44] search the act by specific
[1:25:46] affinity like veterans housing
[1:25:50] or rural housing or if you're a
[1:25:51] particular policymaker or
[1:25:52] decision maker for a particular
[1:25:54] group like a legislator or a
[1:25:56] tribal leader you can also sort
[1:25:58] by action needed in some of
[1:25:59] those various decision making
[1:25:59] bodies
[1:26:04] so just to start off I I think
[1:26:06] one of the things that might be
[1:26:08] a gap here in Oklahoma that I
[1:26:09] think would help us respond to
[1:26:11] this federal legislation is some
[1:26:13] type of statewide housing plan
[1:26:14] or a standing housing task force
[1:26:16] that doesn't yet exist many of
[1:26:18] the states that I believe will
[1:26:20] be able to respond most
[1:26:21] effectively to some of the pilot
[1:26:22] programs created by the roadad
[1:26:24] to Housing Act have already
[1:26:26] created statewide housing plans
[1:26:27] and those are already in place
[1:26:28] and then they have some type of
[1:26:29] convened body
[1:26:33] that can then create strategy on
[1:26:34] behalf of the state to pursue
[1:26:36] some of these pilot programs and
[1:26:37] kind of get all the programs
[1:26:39] lined up in a way that they can
[1:26:41] take advantage of this new these
[1:26:44] new program opportunities so
[1:26:45] really that that could be an ask
[1:26:46] of the legislature it could be
[1:26:48] an ask of incoming governor's
[1:26:51] office but some type of
[1:26:53] coordinated effort to respond to
[1:26:55] the new programs created in this
[1:26:57] piece of legislation could be
[1:26:58] really helpful for the state of
[1:26:59] Oklahoma particularly many of
[1:26:59] the
[1:27:02] areas where there's rural
[1:27:03] communities that might not be
[1:27:04] able to take advantage of some
[1:27:05] of the acts because of their
[1:27:06] lack of existing or or permanent
[1:27:07] staff
[1:27:11] one of the particular areas
[1:27:12] one of the grant programs that
[1:27:14] this particular act stands up is
[1:27:17] for preapproved housing plans
[1:27:18] so I'll just mention briefly
[1:27:19] that there are plenty of
[1:27:20] municipalities in the state of
[1:27:22] Oklahoma that already have
[1:27:23] rolled out preapproved housing
[1:27:24] plans the most recent one is
[1:27:26] the city of Tulsa in the Tetown
[1:27:28] home catalog but preceding that
[1:27:30] were the city of Guthrie
[1:27:32] Danassik's in the room so need
[1:27:33] to give him a shout out on
[1:27:34] creating his own preapproved
[1:27:36] housing plan for the city of
[1:27:37] Guthrie city of Claremore
[1:27:40] also rolled out a preapproved
[1:27:40] housing plan there may be others
[1:27:42] that I don't know of but I feel
[1:27:44] like this is seeing gradual
[1:27:45] adoption across the state
[1:27:48] the federal grants associated
[1:27:50] with the road to housing actct
[1:27:54] provide opportunities to create
[1:27:56] plans set libraries so that
[1:27:57] smaller municipalities can take
[1:27:58] advantage of that
[1:28:01] and so just to back up briefly a
[1:28:03] preapproved housing plan can
[1:28:04] often save on housing
[1:28:06] construction to the tune of5
[1:28:08] to10,000 dollars because you're
[1:28:09] not going out and having an
[1:28:10] architect design a plan set for
[1:28:12] you you can take that off the
[1:28:13] shelf with the municipality
[1:28:14] there's a lot more
[1:28:16] predictability when it comes to
[1:28:18] to housing delivery because
[1:28:18] that's a plan set that's already
[1:28:20] been vetted by the local
[1:28:21] municipality they know that it
[1:28:22] fits within their zoning and
[1:28:24] building code and so it it
[1:28:26] delivers housing units of of
[1:28:27] different housing typologies
[1:28:28] much faster to our
[1:28:29] communities.
[1:28:32] and then the the last thing that
[1:28:33] I'll mention before I turn it
[1:28:35] over to some of our other
[1:28:36] presenters
[1:28:37] are
[1:28:40] there is a new federal
[1:28:42] regulation associated with the
[1:28:43] road to housing actct that
[1:28:46] requires block grant recipients
[1:28:48] in the state to create and
[1:28:49] publish searchable inventories
[1:28:50] of undeveloped land that they
[1:28:54] own which is great it is great
[1:28:56] to know what is available to be
[1:28:58] developed on especially if it's
[1:28:59] applicable for housing and
[1:29:00] housing development. there's an
[1:29:02] opportunity here that instead of
[1:29:04] all of these different block
[1:29:05] grant recipients creating their
[1:29:07] own databases and having those
[1:29:08] kind of be disparate across
[1:29:12] the state for a single statewide
[1:29:14] inventory to happen so that
[1:29:15] that's searchable at the state
[1:29:17] level which I think is a much
[1:29:19] more usable inventory it kind of
[1:29:21] turns this federal regulation
[1:29:22] into something that's actually a
[1:29:24] tool that could be utilized at
[1:29:26] the state level with just a
[1:29:28] little bit of coordination so
[1:29:29] that's another another kind of
[1:29:30] unique element of this
[1:29:32] particular act that I think
[1:29:33] Oklahoma could take advantage of
[1:29:33] pretty pretty quickly
[1:29:36] so with that I'm gonna turn
[1:29:38] it over to Darrell beavers
[1:29:39] with the Oklahoma Housing
[1:29:39] finance Agency.
[1:29:42] good morning I'm the housing
[1:29:49] ' m the housing development
[1:29:54] director at OHFA and I want
[1:29:56] to mention what Tyler was
[1:29:56] talking about about the
[1:29:58] statewide housing plan you know
[1:30:00] we have a statewide housing
[1:30:03] needs assessment that resides
[1:30:05] on our website we did this
[1:30:07] with the help from the OU
[1:30:10] College of architecture and it's
[1:30:12] being it's being updated
[1:30:14] right now but it's the first
[1:30:16] step in trying to identify
[1:30:20] how much housing is needed the
[1:30:22] types and where the second
[1:30:24] step is what Tyler was referring
[1:30:26] to is we need to have a plan
[1:30:27] then on how are we going how are
[1:30:29] we going to solve these problems
[1:30:32] so the twenty1st century
[1:30:33] road tohousing actct and road
[1:30:34] actually stands for something it
[1:30:36] stands for renewing opportunity
[1:30:38] in the American dream it
[1:30:41] makes dozens of worthwhile
[1:30:42] reforms to federal programs and
[1:30:44] establishes a number of new
[1:30:46] policies that will help lower
[1:30:47] housing costs and increase
[1:30:47] housing production
[1:30:52] and opportunities the
[1:30:52] Oklahoma housing finance
[1:30:56] AgencyOFfa interacts with
[1:30:56] most of the programs and
[1:30:58] policies that are they're
[1:31:00] initiated by this bill and so we
[1:31:02] look forward to working with
[1:31:04] federal agencies on the critical
[1:31:06] next steps to turn a major
[1:31:08] policy accomplishment in
[1:31:10] Washington Dc into tangible
[1:31:11] results in Oklahoma.
[1:31:14] the act reforms and streamlines
[1:31:16] numerous US Department of
[1:31:17] Housing and Urban Development
[1:31:20] and US Department of agriculture
[1:31:22] affordable housing programs
[1:31:24] and policies it also allows
[1:31:26] banks to increase equity
[1:31:27] investments in tax credit
[1:31:28] developments and other public
[1:31:31] priorities it authorizes new
[1:31:32] pilot programs and expands and
[1:31:33] updates others
[1:31:36] provides incentives for state
[1:31:37] and local zoning and land use
[1:31:37] reforms
[1:31:42] authorizes a HUDcdBgbased
[1:31:43] disaster recovery program for
[1:31:43] three years
[1:31:46] and directs federal agencies to
[1:31:48] undertake new research and
[1:31:50] establish best practices in an
[1:31:52] effort to expand the supply and
[1:31:53] affordability of affordable
[1:31:54] housing
[1:31:56] so
[1:31:58] going to the slides now
[1:32:02] what OHFA supports before
[1:32:02] discussing the roadad actct I
[1:32:04] think it it's important to
[1:32:06] understand OFfa's role in
[1:32:09] housing production we support
[1:32:10] housing through a number of
[1:32:12] financing tools including the
[1:32:14] home investment partnership
[1:32:16] program the national Housing
[1:32:17] Trust Fund the low income
[1:32:19] housing tax credit bond
[1:32:21] financing and several state
[1:32:22] funded initiatives the
[1:32:24] provisions we'll discuss today
[1:32:25] are the portions of the act
[1:32:26] that appear most relevant to
[1:32:28] those programs that we already
[1:32:30] administer collectively they
[1:32:32] provide new tools to expand
[1:32:34] housing production preserve
[1:32:36] existing housing support home
[1:32:38] ownership and improve the
[1:32:38] administration of federal
[1:32:39] housing programs
[1:32:41] so
[1:32:42] why
[1:32:48] reduction matters why housing
[1:32:50] production matters Oklahoma's
[1:32:51] housing challenges ultimately a
[1:32:51] housing supply challenge
[1:32:54] communities across the state
[1:32:56] need additional rental housing
[1:32:59] workforce housing homeownership
[1:33:01] opportunities senior housing and
[1:33:03] housing in rural areas the
[1:33:04] roadad actct seeks to address
[1:33:06] some of those challenges by
[1:33:06] reducing barriers to development
[1:33:10] providing more flexibility
[1:33:12] within existing programs and
[1:33:14] authorizing several new funding
[1:33:15] opportunities many of these
[1:33:17] reforms focus on helping
[1:33:18] existing housing programs work
[1:33:19] more effectively
[1:33:28] section501 has to do with
[1:33:28] homeme reauthorization and
[1:33:29] reform
[1:33:32] the homeme reauthorization
[1:33:34] and reform Act represents the
[1:33:36] most significant update to the
[1:33:37] home program in more than three
[1:33:37] decades
[1:33:40] the reforms are intended to make
[1:33:42] the program more flexible reduce
[1:33:44] administrative burdens expand
[1:33:46] home ownership opportunities and
[1:33:47] support additional housing
[1:33:48] production
[1:33:51] for Oklahoma some of the most
[1:33:52] significant changes include
[1:33:53] expanding homeownership
[1:33:56] eligibility from 80% to100% of
[1:33:59] area median income and
[1:34:01] increasing allowable home value
[1:34:04] limits from 95% to110% of
[1:34:05] average area purchase price
[1:34:10] the act also s allow state
[1:34:12] administrators like OFfa to
[1:34:14] utilize national inspection
[1:34:16] standards and creates additional
[1:34:18] infrastructure flexibility for
[1:34:20] certain developments
[1:34:22] collectively these changes may
[1:34:24] improve program efficiency
[1:34:26] increase partition participation
[1:34:28] by developers and nonprofit
[1:34:30] partners and create new
[1:34:32] opportunities to address housing
[1:34:34] needs across both rural and
[1:34:35] urban Oklahoma
[1:34:42] the housing counseling reform
[1:34:44] portion of the act is that
[1:34:46] section 10 1 the counseling
[1:34:48] reforms are intended to improve
[1:34:50] both equal and accountability of
[1:34:51] HUD certified housing
[1:34:54] counseling services the act
[1:34:56] provides HUD with additional
[1:34:57] oversight authority while also
[1:35:00] expanding foreclosure mitigation
[1:35:02] counseling opportunities for
[1:35:04] certain FHA USDA and VA
[1:35:06] borrowers for Oklahoma the
[1:35:08] primary opportunity will be
[1:35:09] improving counseling quality
[1:35:12] while continuing to maintain
[1:35:12] services
[1:35:16] access to services this is
[1:35:16] particularly important in rural
[1:35:18] areas where counseling capacity
[1:35:19] remains limited
[1:35:22] as these reforms are implemented
[1:35:24] there may be opportunities to
[1:35:25] strengthen partnerships and
[1:35:26] expand counselor capacity
[1:35:27] statewide
[1:35:33] emerging housing opportunities
[1:35:36] the act also authorizes several
[1:35:38] pilot programs that may create
[1:35:39] future opportunities for
[1:35:40] Oklahoma
[1:35:42] while these programs are
[1:35:45] authorized in statute most still
[1:35:46] require congressional
[1:35:48] appropriations before funding
[1:35:50] becomes available the three that
[1:35:52] appear most relevant from OHFA's
[1:35:56] perspective are the reid program
[1:35:57] the whole homeme repair pilot
[1:36:00] and the affordable housing
[1:36:02] planning and implementation
[1:36:03] grant program and I'll touch
[1:36:04] briefly briefly on those
[1:36:11] the reid program is a
[1:36:14] section210 reid stands for
[1:36:16] revitalizing emmpty structures
[1:36:17] into desirable environments
[1:36:20] the reid program creates a
[1:36:22] competitive funding opportunity
[1:36:23] within home to support the
[1:36:24] conversion of vacant and
[1:36:26] underutilized buildings into
[1:36:28] housing manyy Oklahoma
[1:36:28] communities have buildings that
[1:36:30] contribute to blight and sit
[1:36:32] unused despite having
[1:36:35] redevelopment potential examples
[1:36:37] could include they can schools
[1:36:39] former hospitals office
[1:36:40] buildings commercial properties
[1:36:43] or government facilities this
[1:36:44] program seeks to address housing
[1:36:46] shortages and community
[1:36:47] revitalization at the same time.
[1:36:50] it's important to note that
[1:36:52] rezid does not currently provide
[1:36:53] new funding to Oklahoma
[1:36:55] but instead establishes a
[1:36:56] competitive funding opportunity
[1:36:58] that is still subject to future
[1:37:00] appropriations andU
[1:37:01] implementation
[1:37:06] the whole home repair pilot
[1:37:10] that is at section202
[1:37:11] while much of the housing
[1:37:12] conversation focuses on new
[1:37:13] construction
[1:37:15] preserving existing housing is
[1:37:18] equally important. Many Oklahoma
[1:37:19] communities particularly rural
[1:37:20] communities face challenges
[1:37:22] associated with aging housing
[1:37:23] stock
[1:37:25] the whole home repair pilot
[1:37:26] would create a competitive
[1:37:28] funding opportunity for
[1:37:30] rehabilitation activities such
[1:37:32] as accessibility improvements
[1:37:34] weatherization health and safety
[1:37:36] repairs and major building
[1:37:37] system repairs
[1:37:41] by preserving existing homes
[1:37:42] communities may be able to
[1:37:44] maintain the housing
[1:37:46] affordability and stability at a
[1:37:47] lower cost than developing new
[1:37:47] housing
[1:37:50] if funded this could become
[1:37:51] another useful tool for
[1:37:54] preserving naturally occurring
[1:37:55] affordable housing across the
[1:37:55] state
[1:37:59] f fo rd able housing planning
[1:38:01] and implementation grants can be
[1:38:02] found in section207
[1:38:06] manyy communities know they need
[1:38:08] more housing but lack the
[1:38:10] planning resources necessary to
[1:38:12] identify needs prioritize
[1:38:14] projects and prepare for future
[1:38:15] development opportunities
[1:38:18] this program focuses on planning
[1:38:19] and development readiness rather
[1:38:20] than housing construction
[1:38:23] funds could be used for housing
[1:38:26] needs assessments the one that
[1:38:27] we have that I just mentioned
[1:38:30] market studies workforce housing
[1:38:32] planning and regional housing
[1:38:34] strategies for many Oklahoma
[1:38:36] communities particularly smaller
[1:38:38] communities planning capacity is
[1:38:39] often the first barrier to
[1:38:39] housing development
[1:38:42] while this program would not
[1:38:44] directly build housing it could
[1:38:46] help communities better position
[1:38:48] themselves for future housing
[1:38:49] investments and development
[1:38:49] opportunities.
[1:38:54] increasing housing in
[1:38:56] opportunity zones the road act
[1:38:58] allows HUd to provide additional
[1:39:00] scoring preference for certain
[1:39:01] competitive housing grants
[1:39:03] located in or servingun zones
[1:39:06] Oklahoma currently has
[1:39:10] approximately 117 opportunity
[1:39:12] zones located across both urban
[1:39:14] and rural communities many of
[1:39:16] these areas overlap with
[1:39:18] communities experiencing housing
[1:39:20] shortages shortages development
[1:39:22] needs and infrastructure
[1:39:24] challenges it's important to
[1:39:25] note that opportun zones do not
[1:39:28] create a new funding source but
[1:39:30] they may improve Oklahoma's
[1:39:31] competitiveness for future
[1:39:31] federal housing grants
[1:39:35] as these opportunities develop
[1:39:36] OhFA may be able to
[1:39:39] strategically align housing
[1:39:40] investments and development
[1:39:42] activity withinportunity zone
[1:39:44] communities to maximize access
[1:39:45] to future federal resources
[1:39:50] and now we get to the
[1:39:54] implementation hurdles while
[1:39:55] the roadde act creates several
[1:39:56] promising opportunities many of
[1:39:58] its provisions are not yet
[1:40:00] operational a number of the
[1:40:02] reforms require HUD rulemaking
[1:40:04] and implementation guidance
[1:40:06] before states can begin
[1:40:07] utilizing new program
[1:40:07] flexibilities
[1:40:10] in addition several of the pilot
[1:40:12] programs discussed today are
[1:40:14] authorized but not currently
[1:40:16] funded and require future
[1:40:18] congressional appropriations
[1:40:18] before grants can be awarded
[1:40:23] for O OhA our focus will be on
[1:40:24] monitoring federal
[1:40:26] implementation evaluating
[1:40:28] opportunities for Oklahoma and
[1:40:30] preparing to take advantage of
[1:40:31] these new tools as they become
[1:40:31] available
[1:40:34] ultimately many of the benefits
[1:40:36] of the act will depend on future
[1:40:38] HUD action and congressional
[1:40:39] funding decisions
[1:40:43] and that's the end of my
[1:40:43] presentation
[1:40:48] he
[1:40:53] thank you very much for inviting
[1:40:57] me to present regarding the
[1:40:58] roadad actct. My name's Deana
[1:41:00] Fields and I'm the executive
[1:41:02] director of the manufactured
[1:41:04] housing association of Oklahoma
[1:41:08] since 1994 so I have seen a
[1:41:10] tremendous change with this
[1:41:12] industry since 94 I mean it's
[1:41:15] amazing manufactured housing is
[1:41:16] the only type of housing
[1:41:18] constructed to a federal
[1:41:19] residential building
[1:41:22] code which is regulated by HUD.
[1:41:24] so unfortunately we're not under
[1:41:25] the uniform building code
[1:41:30] according to a 2020 head report
[1:41:32] factorybuild housing has
[1:41:34] undergone many physical changes
[1:41:36] that have made it more similar
[1:41:37] to and in many ways
[1:41:39] indistinguishable from
[1:41:40] conventional site build
[1:41:43] housinguality improvements in
[1:41:44] construction and installation
[1:41:46] practices have increased the
[1:41:48] durability so that the life
[1:41:50] expectancy of the manufactured
[1:41:52] home or a factory built housing
[1:41:54] is comparable to sitebuilt or on
[1:41:55] site housing
[1:42:00] so how does the21st century
[1:42:02] roadad Act housing actct affects
[1:42:03] the manufactured housing
[1:42:03] industry.
[1:42:08] Basically
[1:42:12] it's expanding what can be built
[1:42:13] under the HUD code.
[1:42:17] this is the first time since the
[1:42:20] enacted of HU which is now
[1:42:22] they're celebrating their 50th
[1:42:24] year anniversary is to allow the
[1:42:26] manufactured home to be built
[1:42:28] with or without a permanent
[1:42:29] chassis
[1:42:33] that's tremendous to us the
[1:42:36] reason we're doing that is to
[1:42:38] allow the innovation of our
[1:42:39] architectural to our our
[1:42:40] factories to allow twos story
[1:42:44] modules on infill lots so it'll
[1:42:46] be architecturally compatible
[1:42:46] with the existing housing
[1:42:51] zoning and land use progress
[1:42:53] offers tools to address local
[1:42:55] barriers that restrict the
[1:42:57] placement of manufactured homes
[1:43:01] that's a big obstacle for us and
[1:43:02] we'll get through it later.
[1:43:05] preserving regulatory efficiency
[1:43:08] clarifies HU's authority over a
[1:43:09] manufactured home construction
[1:43:12] safety and energy standards
[1:43:14] keeping the process efficient
[1:43:16] and avoiding conflicted
[1:43:17] standards
[1:43:21] expanding or expanding financing
[1:43:23] opportunities which advances
[1:43:26] improvements to FHAitle one for
[1:43:28] homeme only financing somebody
[1:43:29] owns their land they do not want
[1:43:31] to do you know land in lieu they
[1:43:33] just want to you know the home
[1:43:34] by itself this would help
[1:43:39] U D is also mandating that all
[1:43:42] states define the definitions of
[1:43:44] a manufactured home with the
[1:43:45] federal definition
[1:43:50] Oklahoma is a step ahead of this
[1:43:51] curve since we changed our
[1:43:53] definition definitions over 10
[1:43:56] years ago under
[1:43:58] Title47section581 the used motor
[1:44:00] vehicles dismant or manufactured
[1:44:01] housing commission this
[1:44:02] commission licenses our
[1:44:04] manufacturers our retailers, our
[1:44:06] salespeople, our installers to
[1:44:10] prohibit the conflict or this is
[1:44:11] their fault this is their fault
[1:44:13] you know and we have a dispute
[1:44:15] resolution program within this
[1:44:15] commission that comp
[1:44:18] li es with HUDlus we have our
[1:44:20] installation program that is a
[1:44:22] certified through HUD in this
[1:44:23] commission
[1:44:26] manufacturing and this is the
[1:44:29] definition that we put in our
[1:44:34] title47 Baically it mirrors
[1:44:36] the site and the rules
[1:44:38] promulgated thereof of of the
[1:44:40] federal construction
[1:44:40] safetyanders actct
[1:44:44] basically that's what it says
[1:44:47] any home built after 1974 is
[1:44:47] considered a manufactured home
[1:44:52] a mobile home which we also put
[1:44:54] in state definition and it's
[1:44:56] also in the federal mobile home
[1:44:58] means a residential dwelling
[1:45:00] fabricated in or off site
[1:45:02] manufacturing facility designed
[1:45:04] to be a permanent residence
[1:45:06] which is still transportable
[1:45:08] that was built prior to enacting
[1:45:09] of the national manufactured
[1:45:12] housing Construction Act those
[1:45:13] are your typical what you think
[1:45:13] of your mobile homes and your
[1:45:14] trailers
[1:45:18] However, we do have titles in
[1:45:21] state law that have outdated
[1:45:21] definitions
[1:45:25] what I'm here today is to
[1:45:25] encourage
[1:45:30] a movement that we need to
[1:45:32] simply by just adding defining a
[1:45:34] manufactured homeb like we did
[1:45:38] in Title47, Title21, Title27 a
[1:45:42] anditle68 which is your tax
[1:45:43] commission
[1:45:48] what we need
[1:45:51] we extremely need and we're
[1:45:52] going to be looking forward to
[1:45:56] this is a definition entitle
[1:46:00] 11 cities and townwns
[1:46:02] several years ago the cities and
[1:46:06] towns enacted a law that on the
[1:46:08] aesthetics of a sitebu home
[1:46:10] cities and towns do not have
[1:46:12] that authority to do that. They
[1:46:14] also included manufactured homes
[1:46:15] however there is no
[1:46:20] definitions initle 11 of what we
[1:46:22] are so you have a lot of cities
[1:46:23] and towns that are totally
[1:46:25] confused about manufactured
[1:46:26] homes thinking that anything's
[1:46:28] built in a factory offsite is a
[1:46:30] manufactured home that is not
[1:46:32] the case. We also have modulars
[1:46:35] that are built to the uniform
[1:46:36] building code. a lot of my
[1:46:37] factories that build and
[1:46:39] manufactured home also built of
[1:46:42] modulars and they have to and
[1:46:44] they will have to comply with
[1:46:45] the new code which is what2024
[1:46:48] right the engineers' are
[1:46:48] already looking at it and said
[1:46:50] he we already do that so and in
[1:46:52] essence a lot of our homes are
[1:46:53] even built
[1:47:00] either near or higher to what
[1:47:01] our state building code is
[1:47:02] so
[1:47:06] anyway that's what the change
[1:47:09] the landscape of affordable
[1:47:10] and attainable housing in
[1:47:13] Oklahoma a lot of people don't
[1:47:16] realize that manufactured homes
[1:47:17] can be constructed more quickly
[1:47:20] than sidebuild homes at just 35
[1:47:24] to75% of the cost that's why you
[1:47:26] see a lot of people buying our
[1:47:30] industry. our factories buy
[1:47:31] bundles
[1:47:35] of of products they the only
[1:47:38] thing they ran out of during the
[1:47:40] COVID era was the refrigerators
[1:47:42] and refrigerators did I say that
[1:47:45] refrigerators and microwaves
[1:47:45] and stoves
[1:47:49] they had to go to lowewe's
[1:47:50] naturally instead of the big
[1:47:53] warehouses but we overcame that
[1:47:56] our we have actually40 factories
[1:47:58] that ship homes into Oklahoma
[1:48:00] from all over the country.
[1:48:02] they have to meet the federal
[1:48:05] building codes for our area like
[1:48:07] in Oklahoma we are a thermal
[1:48:10] zone2 for energy standard where
[1:48:14] Texas is a zone one. we have of
[1:48:16] course the wind standards the
[1:48:17] roost standards and
[1:48:19] it's pretty tough if anybody
[1:48:21] ever wants to get into the dive
[1:48:23] of what our coves codes are I'd
[1:48:25] be more than happy to share. We
[1:48:26] also have two plants in
[1:48:28] Oklahoma. We have a plant in
[1:48:29] medill
[1:48:33] new vision and we have a plant
[1:48:35] and Duran Duncan which is was
[1:48:36] a solitaire but now it's owned
[1:48:37] byavco.
[1:48:42] I have three major big factories
[1:48:44] that were very instrumental in
[1:48:46] this homeme act regarding the
[1:48:48] manufactured housing provisions
[1:48:50] that's your avcos your champions
[1:48:52] and your laytons. they're also
[1:48:54] right now showing homes or
[1:48:56] showcased at our houses on the
[1:49:00] Washington mall for the birthday
[1:49:03] of or the anniversary of HUD So
[1:49:06] Secretary Turner's totally
[1:49:07] excited and about our industry
[1:49:08] because
[1:49:10] he's seen and he's walked
[1:49:12] through our homes and he's seen
[1:49:16] how we can provide affordable
[1:49:20] attainable housing for everybody
[1:49:22] and especially for Oklahoma. So
[1:49:24] thank you so much and it's
[1:49:25] back to you
[1:49:30] thank you deanna
[1:49:34] a little bit of a a shift here
[1:49:35] away from the road to housing
[1:49:38] actct and and into some emerging
[1:49:39] research that that housing
[1:49:41] forward was working with urban
[1:49:43] institute on specifically
[1:49:44] around opportunities for faith
[1:49:46] based housing and development in
[1:49:47] Oklahoma
[1:49:48] on the other side of of the
[1:49:50] building this morning they were
[1:49:54] talking about opportunities to
[1:49:56] inject starter homes back
[1:49:57] into our communities and and the
[1:49:58] importance of that and the
[1:50:00] importance of creating stair
[1:50:01] steps
[1:50:03] into homeownership across the
[1:50:06] state of Oklahoma and so as
[1:50:07] you've as you as you've seen in
[1:50:09] the conversation today it is not
[1:50:11] one particular policy issue that
[1:50:12] moves us forward on housing
[1:50:15] policy it is a plethora of
[1:50:16] policy issues that many people
[1:50:17] are passionate about and we have
[1:50:19] to move them all forward kind of
[1:50:20] at the same time which is a
[1:50:22] little bit of conducting a
[1:50:23] symphony but it's
[1:50:26] occasionally in tune and I
[1:50:27] feel like we're hitting this
[1:50:28] moment in Oklahoma where there's
[1:50:30] a lot of these housing policy
[1:50:30] issues that are ripe and moving
[1:50:33] forward at the same time which
[1:50:34] creates an opportunity for great
[1:50:36] progress one of the areas that
[1:50:38] we have to look at when we think
[1:50:39] about housing and housing
[1:50:40] affordability is the land
[1:50:41] available for housing
[1:50:41] development.
[1:50:44] many of our urban areas are
[1:50:46] getting built out we're
[1:50:48] having to look at where our
[1:50:50] infill lots that are available
[1:50:50] and ready for housing
[1:50:52] development many of the
[1:50:54] spaces that you see driving
[1:50:55] around town that are vacant may
[1:50:56] not be ripe for housing
[1:50:56] development because they could
[1:50:58] be in a floodplain or they could
[1:50:59] not be served by utilities
[1:51:02] there's a lot of issues but one
[1:51:03] of the things that we look at
[1:51:04] when we drive around cities and
[1:51:06] towns in Oklahoma is that we
[1:51:08] have a lot of faith communities
[1:51:09] and those faith communities
[1:51:10] are often thriving they're often
[1:51:14] really vibrant but they often
[1:51:16] are also situated on property
[1:51:18] that's much larger than the
[1:51:20] building itself often many acres
[1:51:22] and and especially when you get
[1:51:24] out into rural communities so we
[1:51:25] partnered with theurrban
[1:51:26] institute to look at some
[1:51:28] legislation that had happened in
[1:51:29] other states across the
[1:51:30] countryvirginia state of
[1:51:34] Washington state of Florida
[1:51:36] have have passed legislation to
[1:51:38] kind of incentivize and create
[1:51:40] pathways for development of this
[1:51:41] underused and unlocked land
[1:51:41] associ
[1:51:44] ated with faith communities
[1:51:45] and we just had the very simple
[1:51:47] research question of what is the
[1:51:48] capacity for that in the state
[1:51:50] of Oklahoma is the juice worth
[1:51:52] the squeeze is there is there
[1:51:54] meaningful vacant land here that
[1:51:56] then we could deploy for the
[1:51:58] purpose of both breathing life
[1:52:00] into faith communities that
[1:52:02] then now have a new stream of
[1:52:04] revenue or potentially can find
[1:52:07] new way to serve or to bring
[1:52:08] into use under underdeveloped or
[1:52:10] under utilized land and start to
[1:52:11] chip away at some of the issues
[1:52:12] related
[1:52:13] to housing and housing need
[1:52:16] so here's just a couple
[1:52:16] pictures of of different
[1:52:19] examples of faith communities in
[1:52:21] states across the country that
[1:52:23] have kind of transitioned into
[1:52:24] some type of housing and housing
[1:52:25] development
[1:52:29] really what we saw from other
[1:52:30] housing policies or other
[1:52:32] policies across the country that
[1:52:33] we think are particularly
[1:52:34] applicable here
[1:52:37] are this this deep
[1:52:39] collaboration between the state
[1:52:42] and municipalities zoning is
[1:52:43] inherently a municipal decision
[1:52:46] but there are oftentimes
[1:52:48] opportunities for the state to
[1:52:50] encourage municipalities to find
[1:52:52] ways to unlock housing for the
[1:52:53] benefit of both the
[1:52:54] municipalities themselves and
[1:52:55] the state and their economic
[1:52:56] strategy.
[1:52:58] so I'm not going to talk
[1:52:59] through all of these I want to
[1:53:02] be cognizant of our time but
[1:53:04] what we found was there were a
[1:53:06] lot of faithowned properties
[1:53:08] with a lot of vacant land in the
[1:53:10] state of Oklahoma and just
[1:53:11] looking at Tulsa and Oklahoma
[1:53:14] County we saw that many of
[1:53:15] those properties were completely
[1:53:16] vacant or had no structure at
[1:53:19] all on them so oftentimes
[1:53:20] that's land that was given to
[1:53:22] the church or a faith entity
[1:53:24] when a parishioner dies but
[1:53:25] oftentimes these properties are
[1:53:26] kind of left in
[1:53:29] a limbo and and oftentimes
[1:53:30] congregations don't really know
[1:53:31] what to do with them
[1:53:35] so we urban institute did a
[1:53:36] lot more math here than I'm
[1:53:38] comfortable with but they
[1:53:40] they found they found that just
[1:53:44] vacant land alone within a
[1:53:46] city of a population of50,000 or
[1:53:48] more there was six square
[1:53:50] miles of available land owned by
[1:53:52] faith entities in the state of
[1:53:54] Oklahoma and then you look
[1:53:56] further to the right on that
[1:53:58] graph and you can see kind of
[1:54:00] the breakdown of what zoning
[1:54:01] those those parcels are in
[1:54:04] either single family multifamily
[1:54:06] or just commercial industrial
[1:54:09] zoning in and of itself so
[1:54:12] really what we see with that is
[1:54:13] thinking about how to augment
[1:54:14] some of those zoning
[1:54:16] classifications based on
[1:54:17] ownership could create
[1:54:18] opportunities to really put a
[1:54:20] lot of homes on the board when
[1:54:21] we think about solving some of
[1:54:22] the affordability crisis and and
[1:54:26] some of the housing need across
[1:54:28] the state of Oklahoma and we saw
[1:54:29] that these faith owned parcels
[1:54:30] were were literally across the
[1:54:31] entire state
[1:54:34] so these are obviously
[1:54:35] preliminary results on this
[1:54:36] research we expect the full
[1:54:38] report to be delivered sometime
[1:54:40] later this year but we thought
[1:54:42] that it was relevant enough and
[1:54:44] and pertinent enough enough to
[1:54:45] this conversation to kind of
[1:54:46] bring it up here as well that
[1:54:47] you know there are a lot of
[1:54:48] levers we can pull at the both
[1:54:50] the i municipal and the state
[1:54:52] level to start to chip away at
[1:54:53] opportunity related to housing
[1:54:56] and housing production so with
[1:54:58] that quick preview I'll turn
[1:54:59] it back over toenenatoral here
[1:55:04] thank you so much for the
[1:55:05] presentation is there any
[1:55:06] there's any
[1:55:08] other committee members here
[1:55:13] just a but I want to thank the
[1:55:15] presenters today very
[1:55:16] valuable information
[1:55:18] sincerely appreciate all that
[1:55:20] you've brought to the
[1:55:22] committee and the chair and I
[1:55:23] wanna thank again the chair for
[1:55:26] hearing this interim study
[1:55:28] and say thanks for
[1:55:29] everybody for coming I
[1:55:29] appreciate it.
[1:55:34] with that we will take a break
[1:55:36] I actually do have some
[1:55:37] questions for you but they are
[1:55:39] going to be much longer than our
[1:55:41] time allows today we'll take a
[1:55:43] break. I will see if I can track
[1:55:44] down Senator Fricks see if we
[1:55:47] can get going a little early
[1:55:48] but for now take a few minutes
[1:55:49] go stretch your legs and we'll
[1:55:50] see you shortly.
[2:22:13] come on you
[2:23:32] Good afternoon everyone. we are
[2:23:36] back with Senator Fricks good to
[2:23:37] see you.
[2:23:40] thanks for coming over today and
[2:23:42] like I've mentioned before a
[2:23:43] few housekeeping things it's
[2:23:44] going to be super casual senator
[2:23:46] Frick I'm gonna let you kind
[2:23:48] of run the show you don't
[2:23:49] have to work through the chair
[2:23:50] and we'll just have a
[2:23:52] conversation and talk about our
[2:23:54] taxation issuesenter for
[2:23:56] explorers thank you so much
[2:23:57] thank you madam chair for
[2:23:58] hearing the study and for
[2:23:59] allowing us to have this today
[2:24:00] and want to thank everyone for
[2:24:02] taking time to to join the study
[2:24:04] all of our speakers and and
[2:24:05] others that helped us put this
[2:24:06] together. I prepared a few
[2:24:07] opening remarks and
[2:24:08] then after that would like to
[2:24:10] just really like work through
[2:24:11] the list of our incredible
[2:24:13] lineup of speakers but today
[2:24:14] we're taking a closer look at
[2:24:16] how affordable housing
[2:24:17] properties are valued for ad
[2:24:19] valorem tax purposes in Oklahoma
[2:24:20] and I requested this study
[2:24:22] because a technical question
[2:24:24] about property valuation has
[2:24:26] real consequences for
[2:24:27] communities local governments
[2:24:28] housing providers and definitely
[2:24:30] Oklahoma families. want to first
[2:24:32] start with what the study is not
[2:24:34] about. it's not about removing
[2:24:35] affordable housing developments
[2:24:36] from the tax rules unless they
[2:24:37] qualify
[2:24:38] for separate exemption these
[2:24:40] properties pay advilom taxes.
[2:24:42] The question that we're trying
[2:24:44] to look at today is how to
[2:24:45] determine a fair taxable value
[2:24:46] when a property's rent and
[2:24:48] income are legally restricted
[2:24:50] the low income housing tax
[2:24:52] credit which is also known as
[2:24:55] LIHTc is really just a financing
[2:24:57] tool a developer uses an
[2:24:59] allocation of credits to attract
[2:25:00] private investment for the
[2:25:02] construction or rehabilitation
[2:25:04] of affordable housing in return
[2:25:06] the property must serve income
[2:25:07] eligible residents and operate
[2:25:08] under federally
[2:25:10] restricted rents the investor
[2:25:12] receives the tax benefit and the
[2:25:13] property receives capital that
[2:25:14] makes construction possible.
[2:25:16] Once operating the property
[2:25:18] cannot charge the same rents as
[2:25:19] an unrestricted market rate
[2:25:20] development and those
[2:25:22] restrictions affect its income
[2:25:23] and economic value
[2:25:26] Oklahoma courts have addressed
[2:25:28] this in the2011 case and
[2:25:29] Stillwater Housing associates
[2:25:31] vsusRose the Oklahoma Court of
[2:25:32] Civil Appeals held that low
[2:25:34] income housing tax credits are
[2:25:36] not income to the property the
[2:25:38] court also held that the credits
[2:25:40] belonged to the investor do not
[2:25:41] run with the land and our
[2:25:44] intangible property personal
[2:25:45] property exempt from advaloum
[2:25:46] taxation under the Oklahoma
[2:25:48] constitution. The concern is
[2:25:50] that this framework is not
[2:25:51] applied uniformly across the
[2:25:52] state. Many county assessors
[2:25:53] value these properties based on
[2:25:54] their
[2:25:56] restricted rents and actual
[2:25:58] operating income others may use
[2:26:00] the market rate assumptions or
[2:26:02] include the value of the tax
[2:26:03] credits and similar properties
[2:26:04] can therefore receive
[2:26:06] substantially different
[2:26:07] valuations depending on where
[2:26:08] they are located within our
[2:26:09] state
[2:26:12] earlier this year I was a senate
[2:26:14] author for House Bill4305. The
[2:26:16] bill proposed a restricted rent
[2:26:18] income approach using financial
[2:26:20] information from the property
[2:26:21] and capitalization rates derived
[2:26:23] from the comparable rent
[2:26:25] restricted properties it also
[2:26:26] provided that housing tax
[2:26:28] credits would not be counted as
[2:26:30] income attributable to the real
[2:26:32] estate. That proposal gives us a
[2:26:34] starting point but today's study
[2:26:35] should not be limited to just
[2:26:37] that bill. my goal today is to
[2:26:38] hear and to understand how these
[2:26:39] properties
[2:26:41] operate, how they are currently
[2:26:43] valued and whether Oklahoma law
[2:26:44] provides enough clarity for both
[2:26:45] taxpayers and assessors
[2:26:48] we also need to understand the
[2:26:50] broader economic context an
[2:26:52] economic impact study prepared
[2:26:53] by our Oklahoma department of
[2:26:54] Commerce examined developments
[2:26:55] supported by Oklahoma
[2:26:56] Stateffordable housing tax
[2:27:00] credits from2015 through2024. it
[2:27:02] does not address the specific
[2:27:04] valuation question before us but
[2:27:06] it's findings do show what is at
[2:27:09] stake approximately $39.3
[2:27:10] million in state housing tax
[2:27:13] credits supported71 developments
[2:27:15] at75 locations in40 communities
[2:27:15] and 33
[2:27:18] counties. Those projects
[2:27:22] produce5,762 housing units and
[2:27:24] more than752 million in direct
[2:27:26] construction activity the
[2:27:28] department of commerce estimated
[2:27:29] that nearly2 billion dollars in
[2:27:32] total economic activity from2017
[2:27:34] through2025 and that investment
[2:27:36] reaches well beyond our largest
[2:27:39] metropolitan areas.56 of the75
[2:27:40] developments were located
[2:27:42] outside of Oklahoma, Tulsa and
[2:27:44] Cleveland counties. These
[2:27:45] properties can replace aging
[2:27:45] housing stock meet meet
[2:27:48] workforce needs and help
[2:27:49] communities attract and retain
[2:27:51] employees they also contribute
[2:27:53] to our local tax base assuming
[2:27:54] property values remain level the
[2:27:56] commerce report estimated
[2:27:58] potential annual property tax
[2:28:00] generation of approximately 8.75
[2:28:02] million from the properties it
[2:28:03] studied
[2:28:06] but fairness must run both ways
[2:28:08] schools counties and other local
[2:28:10] services depend on a stable
[2:28:12] property tax base assessors need
[2:28:13] reliable information and
[2:28:15] workable standards property
[2:28:17] owners need predictability and
[2:28:18] consistency with the application
[2:28:21] of the law. A fair system should
[2:28:22] recognize both the taxable real
[2:28:24] estate and legal restrictions
[2:28:26] that shape its income and value
[2:28:27] as we hear from today's
[2:28:28] presenters I hope we will focus
[2:28:30] on four big questions. First,
[2:28:32] what valuation methods are being
[2:28:33] used across Oklaho
[2:28:35] ma and how much do they vary?
[2:28:38] Second, how should restricted
[2:28:39] rents operating expenses
[2:28:41] occupancy during lease up and
[2:28:42] appropriate capitalization rates
[2:28:44] be reflected.hird, what
[2:28:46] information should owners
[2:28:48] provide so assessors can make
[2:28:50] accurate and timely valuations
[2:28:52] and lastly finally can we
[2:28:53] establish a uniform approach
[2:28:55] that reflects the2011 court
[2:28:56] decision protects local
[2:28:58] revenues, reduces disputes and
[2:29:00] gives communities and housing
[2:29:02] providers greater certainty.
[2:29:02] Again we want to thank everyone
[2:29:03] for for being
[2:29:06] here and excited to hear from
[2:29:07] everybody today really
[2:29:08] appreciate everyone for agreeing
[2:29:10] to take some time and speak.
[2:29:11] we're gonna start with
[2:29:13] Katrina Washington who's here if
[2:29:14] she would come forward for us.
[2:29:16] she's the executive director of
[2:29:18] NHS Oakla
[2:29:20] and so with that madam chair we
[2:29:21] turn it over to Miss Washington.
[2:29:30] kind of done them back to back
[2:29:32] because you had to stay for a
[2:29:33] whole study that well it's
[2:29:34] housing you're probably
[2:29:35] interested in you'll go ahead
[2:29:36] and introduce yourself and then
[2:29:38] the flourishers yes I'm Katrina
[2:29:40] Washington and executive
[2:29:41] director for neighborighbourhood
[2:29:44] housingervices Oklahoma so
[2:29:45] thank you
[2:29:48] so yes we have been
[2:29:52] experiencing some
[2:29:54] difficulty with some
[2:29:56] valuations we are often
[2:29:58] nonprofit partner with a lot
[2:30:00] of developers here in
[2:30:02] Oklahoma
[2:30:06] how that would affect a lot of
[2:30:09] the low income people so
[2:30:10] that is what I would like to was
[2:30:12] to start with so I'm sorry it
[2:30:14] wouldn't planning on being part
[2:30:15] of this
[2:30:17] this study so
[2:30:19] when we
[2:30:24] go forward and we are
[2:30:26] introduced into a development or
[2:30:30] a line tech project the
[2:30:32] developer will introduce us
[2:30:33] they'll come to us and say
[2:30:35] neighborigh housing services we
[2:30:38] have a project let's say
[2:30:42] there's a200 unit project
[2:30:44] they would like to make that
[2:30:47] project affordable so they will
[2:30:50] ask us to be the nonprofit
[2:30:50] partner to
[2:30:53] provide for
[2:30:58] let me start over provide for
[2:31:00] low income that would be below
[2:31:03] 80% or sometimes 30 to60% AMI
[2:31:08] individuals the importance of
[2:31:12] that would be to provide for
[2:31:13] additional
[2:31:16] units we currently have about
[2:31:19] 3500 units across the state
[2:31:24] of Oklahoma so without the tax
[2:31:27] exemptions that would be lost
[2:31:30] currently so it's important
[2:31:32] to keep that tax exemption in
[2:31:33] place.
[2:31:35] that's will start there
[2:31:39] the
[2:31:43] we are often the nonprofit
[2:31:46] partner and and it's it's very
[2:31:49] simple partnership when the
[2:31:50] developer goes to let's say
[2:31:52] Oakland housing finance Agency
[2:31:54] that was just speaking they will
[2:31:55] ask for what's called tax
[2:31:57] credits. We come in as a
[2:31:58] nonprofit partner that would
[2:32:02] provide for a tax exemption on
[2:32:04] the project that the developer
[2:32:07] is asking for let's say 10
[2:32:10] million or20 million on a200
[2:32:11] unit apartment
[2:32:14] complex we come in just to
[2:32:16] provide that tax exemption on
[2:32:18] the project
[2:32:22] we provide also compliance so we
[2:32:24] go in and make sure that that
[2:32:28] developer actually does make
[2:32:30] a number of those units
[2:32:32] affordable to low income
[2:32:34] individuals so as
[2:32:40] the housing nonwe let me say
[2:32:41] what neighborigh housingervices
[2:32:44] does we provide for our housing
[2:32:46] counseling we come in and we
[2:32:49] make sure that the individuals
[2:32:50] are receiving supportive
[2:32:53] services so we provide for
[2:32:56] housing counseling services we
[2:32:58] have individuals come in and
[2:33:00] learn about how to get back
[2:33:02] on their feet budget credit
[2:33:04] housing counseling down payment
[2:33:05] assistance and we provide those
[2:33:08] services for the developer so
[2:33:11] when they partner with us as a
[2:33:12] nonprofit they received that tax
[2:33:16] exemption so they were provide
[2:33:18] their application for the tax
[2:33:20] credits they can say we have a
[2:33:21] nonprofit partner that's going
[2:33:23] to provide supporter services on
[2:33:23] their application
[2:33:28] they often will offer us a small
[2:33:30] percentage of ownership but then
[2:33:32] for the for their project
[2:33:36] and we are a partner with that
[2:33:38] project for a number of years
[2:33:42] for 1f to20 years so we are a
[2:33:44] partner long term to make sure
[2:33:47] these developments stay low
[2:33:49] income we are there for
[2:33:50] supportive services for the
[2:33:52] individuals in these
[2:33:54] apartment complexes whether
[2:33:57] they're 30%60% income
[2:34:00] income driven
[2:34:04] and then yeah so we're therefore
[2:34:05] that compliance piece
[2:34:08] thank you so much for for
[2:34:10] sharing that and sorry to put
[2:34:10] you on the spot there we had
[2:34:12] another speaker that I wasn't
[2:34:13] able to make it so I thought
[2:34:14] your perspective there is
[2:34:16] incredibly important so thank
[2:34:17] you very much for for sharing
[2:34:18] that we want to move
[2:34:20] tolanceinndell he's president of
[2:34:22] Lw Development and appreciate
[2:34:23] him being here and madam chairir
[2:34:24] I'd like to turn over to Mr
[2:34:24] Wendell
[2:34:31] there it is let's try that
[2:34:32] again. Good afternoon. thanks
[2:34:32] for having me today.
[2:34:36] I I think probably the
[2:34:37] quickest thing that I can do is
[2:34:38] is make sure we kind of level
[2:34:40] the playing field there's a lot
[2:34:41] of acronyms that we get thrown
[2:34:42] around in here and so I can I
[2:34:43] can kind of help with some of
[2:34:44] that because I've been doing
[2:34:46] this for a long time and I
[2:34:48] keeps it simple for me we're
[2:34:49] here mainly today to talk about
[2:34:50] the light tech low income
[2:34:52] housing tax credit right and and
[2:34:55] how it how it builds housing
[2:34:56] in Oklahoma and then how do we
[2:34:58] assess that when we need to tax
[2:34:59] it or we need to tax that
[2:35:02] property tax and so first we can
[2:35:03] talk the we call it light tech
[2:35:03] lowcome housing tax credit
[2:35:06] we also call it section42.
[2:35:07] you'll have some people referred
[2:35:10] to it as 9% or4% credits but
[2:35:12] basically it's a tax credit that
[2:35:14] developers receive in order to
[2:35:16] build houses and generally
[2:35:17] those lie techs are in in the
[2:35:18] state of Oklahoma those lites
[2:35:20] are awarded by OA the Ocom
[2:35:21] Housing Finance Agency Darrell
[2:35:22] beavers was here a few minutes
[2:35:24] ago he kind of runs that show in
[2:35:26] awarding lightex so we we call
[2:35:27] themOFfa
[2:35:30] they provide light text and
[2:35:32] then so a developer like myself
[2:35:33] will go to OA it's a very
[2:35:34] competitive process and we'll
[2:35:35] ask for an award of credits
[2:35:37] and40 of us might ask and only
[2:35:38] 10 of us are going to get
[2:35:39] awarded because there just
[2:35:40] aren't enough to go around right
[2:35:41] but if we're lucky and we get
[2:35:44] ours then our next step once
[2:35:45] we've been awarded hey we want
[2:35:47] to build40 houses in Ardmore is
[2:35:48] we'll get that award but we
[2:35:49] still have to go get a
[2:35:50] construction loan so our next
[2:35:52] step would be to go get a
[2:35:53] construction loan we'll get a
[2:35:54] construction loan we'll build
[2:35:56] our houses or apartments and
[2:35:57] then after that
[2:35:59] we'll take those credits that
[2:36:00] were awarded to us they don't
[2:36:02] really exist until we've got the
[2:36:03] houses built but we'll take
[2:36:05] those credits and let's say we
[2:36:06] had a $10 million construction
[2:36:08] loan and we've got a set of
[2:36:10] credits from Ola and we can sell
[2:36:12] those for5 million dollars to an
[2:36:13] investor that will come into our
[2:36:14] deal so now our construction
[2:36:16] loan went from $10 million down
[2:36:18] to5 million dollars we're still
[2:36:20] going to have a5 million dollars
[2:36:21] perm loan so we still have a
[2:36:22] loan that we have to have but
[2:36:24] it's half maybe or sometimes
[2:36:25] less of what it should have been
[2:36:28] but in exchange for that we've
[2:36:30] promised to the state and
[2:36:32] federal government that we're
[2:36:33] going to rent those units for a
[2:36:34] lower rate right so where the
[2:36:36] rent might have been $1500 a
[2:36:38] month for that apartment it's
[2:36:39] only going to be $1000 a month
[2:36:40] right and the way that they kind
[2:36:42] of hold us to that is they have
[2:36:44] us sign what's called a urra a
[2:36:46] limited use restrictive
[2:36:47] agreement so we have to sign
[2:36:48] this law and we have to file it
[2:36:50] with the county right and it
[2:36:52] restricts that property
[2:36:53] generally for either the next 30
[2:36:55] or40 years so for irty or40
[2:36:55] years we've got
[2:36:58] to follow all these rules
[2:36:59] there's a lot of compliance that
[2:37:01] we have to do in in order to
[2:37:03] have received those tax credits
[2:37:06] so that is kind of where aid
[2:37:08] comes into now an assessor has
[2:37:10] got to figure out what the heck
[2:37:12] is this thing worth right
[2:37:14] because it's not worth the same
[2:37:15] thing as an open market
[2:37:16] apartment complex or a single
[2:37:18] family home it's got this weird
[2:37:19] restriction called allur on it
[2:37:22] so most of us have been in the
[2:37:23] industry and and and kind of
[2:37:24] common knowledge there are about
[2:37:25] three different ways to figure
[2:37:26] out what something's worth when
[2:37:28] we're talking about appraising
[2:37:29] right and the the first one
[2:37:30] would be the comparables
[2:37:31] comparables is great when you're
[2:37:32] trying to sell a single family
[2:37:34] house up ineddmond right and
[2:37:35] there was fi0 single family
[2:37:36] houses in the neighborhood that
[2:37:37] have sold in the past three
[2:37:38] years and and the praser can
[2:37:40] look at that and go hey this is
[2:37:42] what those houses are going for
[2:37:44] right? hard to do with the light
[2:37:46] tech apartment complex because a
[2:37:47] they're very very difficult to
[2:37:48] sell and b there aren't that
[2:37:49] many of them and so it's really
[2:37:49] hard to come up with comp
[2:37:52] s when you're trying to do light
[2:37:54] tech and so generally that's not
[2:37:56] a great way to do it we've seen
[2:37:57] some assessors try but it's just
[2:37:58] it's really difficult. The cops
[2:38:00] don't work the cops aren't in
[2:38:01] that town they're never the same
[2:38:02] size you know one's irty years
[2:38:04] older than the other one so the
[2:38:06] comparable method is kind of a
[2:38:07] kind of a problem you know the
[2:38:08] next one would be the
[2:38:10] construction cost method. Hey
[2:38:11] you just built it. Shouln't it
[2:38:12] be worth what it costs you to
[2:38:14] build and I will tell you in
[2:38:16] open market that makes a lot of
[2:38:17] sense matter of fact there was
[2:38:18] recently some legislation run to
[2:38:19] try to say absolutely in
[2:38:22] an open market apartment complex
[2:38:24] what we should what we should
[2:38:26] assess that for for at least the
[2:38:27] first couple of years while it's
[2:38:28] going to lease up is what it
[2:38:30] costs to build it that's fair we
[2:38:31] shouldn't be trying to
[2:38:32] anticipate what it's going to be
[2:38:33] worth in three years because the
[2:38:34] rents go up that doesn't make
[2:38:35] any sense.
[2:38:38] but when it comes to lie tech
[2:38:39] that that doesn't quite work
[2:38:40] because keep in mind it might
[2:38:42] have cost us $10 million to
[2:38:43] build it but we're only getting
[2:38:44] the rents of5 million dollars
[2:38:46] because of that big credit that
[2:38:48] we received so construction
[2:38:49] costs while it might work really
[2:38:50] well for open market
[2:38:54] man open market multifamily
[2:38:55] housing really tough to make
[2:38:56] work with light tech and so that
[2:38:57] leaves us with the income
[2:38:58] approach which makes a lot of
[2:39:00] sense right ok so the income
[2:39:02] approach how much rents are you
[2:39:03] gonna get? what are your
[2:39:04] expenses gonna be right and
[2:39:05] based on that it really
[2:39:06] turns that
[2:39:09] that apartment complex that we
[2:39:10] have important families living
[2:39:12] in into something that we can
[2:39:14] assess based on what is it worth
[2:39:16] based on its income right and so
[2:39:18] that really is kind of what we
[2:39:20] see is the best way to do it
[2:39:22] and when the appraiser does it
[2:39:24] right they need to assume the
[2:39:26] fact that we have this laura
[2:39:27] that says well it should be
[2:39:28] raining for $1500 a month but
[2:39:29] it's only renting for $1000 a
[2:39:31] month so it it can't be worth
[2:39:32] the same right and they have to
[2:39:34] account for a lot of the other
[2:39:36] restrictions right we have to
[2:39:37] look at it's not very easy to
[2:39:37] sell
[2:39:39] I'm not generally allowed to
[2:39:40] sell it without asking for
[2:39:42] permission from the investor and
[2:39:43] the lender
[2:39:45] and Ofa right so that's not
[2:39:46] normal where you know I can just
[2:39:48] sell my house when I want you
[2:39:48] know I've got like 3 different
[2:39:50] permissions so selling needs is
[2:39:52] really really difficult and so
[2:39:53] all these things need to be
[2:39:54] accounted for when we look at
[2:39:55] the income approach
[2:39:59] and so I wanna go why does it ok
[2:40:00] great but why does this matter
[2:40:01] and why does this need to be at
[2:40:03] the legislative level because we
[2:40:04] have other people that are
[2:40:06] involved in the game and I'm
[2:40:10] very scared of a developer to go
[2:40:12] to some counties where I'm not
[2:40:13] sure that that appraiser gets
[2:40:14] it. I will be very honest there
[2:40:16] are a lot of great appraisers in
[2:40:17] the state of Oklahoma and most
[2:40:18] of them I work with get it right
[2:40:20] and I come to them and it's a
[2:40:21] very easy conversation and they
[2:40:23] got it but every now and then
[2:40:24] right you run into one and I
[2:40:26] will tell you I have a couple of
[2:40:27] different counties that
[2:40:29] I'm just not interested in
[2:40:29] developing in because
[2:40:31] that and a couple of other
[2:40:32] things in that area just kind of
[2:40:34] scare me away right and so we
[2:40:36] want to help even that playing
[2:40:38] field out across the state and
[2:40:39] kind of get some get some
[2:40:40] guidelines out there that hey
[2:40:42] this is kind of how we have to
[2:40:44] do it so that's that's kind of
[2:40:45] why it matters that's that's why
[2:40:46] tech in a nutshell
[2:40:50] the last one I have it on my
[2:40:51] piece of paper so I'm gonna
[2:40:51] bring it up
[2:40:53] it does get very complicated
[2:40:54] right this evaluation is very
[2:40:56] complicated and I think as we
[2:40:58] look at legislation or how can
[2:40:59] we fix it one of the last things
[2:41:01] I would look at is is light tech
[2:41:02] is a little bit different than
[2:41:04] open market and so sometimes
[2:41:06] when we try to do the income
[2:41:08] approach we say hey your rent is
[2:41:10] you know $1000 a month and here
[2:41:11] are your expenses but it's hard
[2:41:12] to determine expenses so
[2:41:14] sometimes we throw out an
[2:41:15] expense multiplier while your
[2:41:17] expenses are 35% of your income
[2:41:19] that's a fairly common expense
[2:41:20] multiplier number but one of the
[2:41:21] problems we run into
[2:41:22] in litech is that's the same
[2:41:24] number that you would use in
[2:41:25] open market so I gonna do a
[2:41:26] little quick math for you. Hey
[2:41:28] that's a beautiful apartment
[2:41:29] complex and it should rent an
[2:41:31] open market for $1500 a month so
[2:41:32] we're gonna apply an expense
[2:41:34] multiplier on there of 35% which
[2:41:36] means your expenses are525
[2:41:38] dollars you know a month
[2:41:39] right it's what your expenses
[2:41:40] should be
[2:41:42] the exact same apartment complex
[2:41:45] identical except it's li tech so
[2:41:46] now the rent is $1000 a month
[2:41:47] we're going to throw a 35%
[2:41:47] multiplier on there
[2:41:50] your expenses are only $350 a
[2:41:52] month one is a guy who manages
[2:41:54] about2,000 units of light tech
[2:41:56] in the state of Oklahoma. I got
[2:41:57] to tell you that sometimes our
[2:41:58] tenants are a little bit more
[2:42:01] difficult to work with or we
[2:42:03] have more problems and so to
[2:42:04] bring my extensive multiple to
[2:42:06] bring my actual expenses down
[2:42:07] because we're trying to assess
[2:42:08] it the same way as we would
[2:42:09] multifamily
[2:42:10] is a problem
[2:42:13] there are a lot of little
[2:42:14] details like that that have to
[2:42:15] get worked out but we've got
[2:42:16] some great people much smarter
[2:42:18] than I am on the process and I
[2:42:19] think kind of if we could work
[2:42:20] together with them we could find
[2:42:22] something that helps developers
[2:42:23] find consistency in the state
[2:42:24] thank you
[2:42:26] thank you so much that was very
[2:42:28] helpful presentation appreciate
[2:42:30] you being here today and for for
[2:42:31] your investment in in Oklahoma
[2:42:33] in this space.ex madam chair if
[2:42:34] it's ok we'll move to Gary
[2:42:36] Schnyder who's the director of
[2:42:37] the Oklahoma State University
[2:42:38] Center for Local Government and
[2:42:40] Technology you'll give me just
[2:42:42] one second. thank you for your
[2:42:44] help on my bill I learned a lot
[2:42:46] and I really do appreciate the
[2:42:48] time that you took to make sure
[2:42:50] that we got that right. Also if
[2:42:51] you don't mind hitting your
[2:42:52] button to turn your mic off
[2:42:53] unless you want to stay on
[2:42:53] camera you totally can. right
[2:42:54] thank you
[2:42:56] sorry about that but thank you
[2:42:57] for your help I appreciate it.
[2:43:00] madam chairman members senator
[2:43:01] Fras thanks for the
[2:43:02] invite.ppreciate that
[2:43:05] folks my name is Gary
[2:43:06] Schnyder is a slide says
[2:43:09] and I am the director for the
[2:43:10] Center for Local Government
[2:43:11] Technology
[2:43:13] I was a former county
[2:43:13] assessor
[2:43:17] I worked in the county for a
[2:43:18] period of eight years and of
[2:43:20] those eight years I served as a
[2:43:22] county cessor before I had the
[2:43:23] opportunity to go over to OSU
[2:43:25] and work in the training program
[2:43:25] for county assessors and
[2:43:26] deputies
[2:43:30] my assistant director carried on
[2:43:32] Skidmore she's not be able to be
[2:43:34] with us today. she would like to
[2:43:36] but she had a previous
[2:43:36] engagement and
[2:43:40] both of us have some letters
[2:43:41] behind our name and I want you
[2:43:42] to just remember those because
[2:43:43] I'm going to cover that at the
[2:43:43] end of this presentation.
[2:43:47] the center
[2:43:49] our vision for the center
[2:43:51] is for
[2:43:55] we aim to be recognized
[2:43:56] authority in providing extension
[2:43:58] programs and services to our
[2:44:00] customers which positively
[2:44:00] impact their outputs
[2:44:02] we our mission
[2:44:06] is to provide quality extension
[2:44:08] programs and services including
[2:44:10] certification and accreditation
[2:44:12] that promote professionalism and
[2:44:14] efficiency for state and local
[2:44:16] entities plus other public and
[2:44:17] private clients
[2:44:22] Oklahoma State University is a
[2:44:23] land grant university
[2:44:28] actcting under two acts federal
[2:44:30] acts 1862 Moral Act in the 1887
[2:44:31] Hatch Act
[2:44:34] c l G T Center for Local
[2:44:35] Government we we've got a lot of
[2:44:39] acronyms too and umclGt is short
[2:44:39] for the center
[2:44:43] we are a unit of the OSU
[2:44:44] College of Engineering
[2:44:45] architecture and Technology
[2:44:48] and when I went to work first
[2:44:50] went over to OSU to work I
[2:44:52] couldn't understand why that
[2:44:53] unit was part of the engineering
[2:44:54] college and I'll I'll explain
[2:44:55] that here in a little bit
[2:44:58] to meet our mission we function
[2:44:59] under a three legged stool
[2:45:00] concept
[2:45:02] teaching research and extension
[2:45:08] the the teaching part which
[2:45:08] is the moral act
[2:45:10] states that
[2:45:14] educating students on campus
[2:45:15] through degree programs
[2:45:16] professional training and
[2:45:18] practical knowledge in fields
[2:45:19] like agriculture, engineering
[2:45:19] and the arts
[2:45:23] The Hatch Act deals with
[2:45:28] the research part discovering
[2:45:30] new science creating innovations
[2:45:32] and solving real world problems
[2:45:33] through advanced laboratory and
[2:45:33] field studies
[2:45:36] and that leaves the third part
[2:45:37] of the stool extension
[2:45:40] taking the research back
[2:45:40] discoveries made at the
[2:45:42] university ensuring them
[2:45:44] directly with citizens farmers
[2:45:46] businesses and the youth of the
[2:45:47] state of Oklahoma
[2:45:51] OSU meets that responsibility of
[2:45:53] being a land grant university
[2:45:56] inclGt meets that as part of an
[2:45:57] extension unit out of the
[2:45:57] college
[2:46:00] so current our current status
[2:46:02] status of theclGT programs we
[2:46:04] have three areas that we focus
[2:46:05] on
[2:46:08] one is the assessor training and
[2:46:09] accreditation program and
[2:46:09] there's that acronym
[2:46:13] that consists of seven courses
[2:46:15] 124ur hours in the classroom
[2:46:19] and required successful testing
[2:46:21] after each course and then
[2:46:22] completion of accreditation
[2:46:24] requires 30 hours of continuing
[2:46:25] education units over a three
[2:46:26] year period
[2:46:28] the second area that we
[2:46:30] concentrate on training is the
[2:46:31] boardard of equalization members
[2:46:34] which are the three board three
[2:46:36] members that hear the
[2:46:38] protests of property evaluations
[2:46:40] they have a six hour initial
[2:46:42] training requirement and then
[2:46:44] they have a three hour
[2:46:44] continuing education requirement
[2:46:45] each year
[2:46:48] both of these programs were
[2:46:48] established in 1988 legislation
[2:46:52] the boardard of the equalization
[2:46:54] training excuse me has kind of
[2:46:55] changed over the over the course
[2:46:58] of that time frame but that is
[2:46:59] the current status of that of
[2:47:01] that prop of that training that
[2:47:01] we do for that board members
[2:47:04] the equalization boardard
[2:47:06] members are also they also serve
[2:47:08] on is known as the excise
[2:47:10] boardard and that training has
[2:47:12] the same requirements only the
[2:47:14] cooperative extension service
[2:47:14] over in the agg collegelege
[2:47:16] provides that training for the
[2:47:18] excise board members so three
[2:47:19] members
[2:47:21] two different functions two
[2:47:22] different boards boardard of
[2:47:24] equalization deals with values
[2:47:26] the excise boardard deals with
[2:47:27] finances of the county
[2:47:30] the third area that we provide
[2:47:32] training and support on is
[2:47:33] called the computers assisted
[2:47:34] mass appraisal or the CAA
[2:47:35] program
[2:47:38] 2018 legislated legislation
[2:47:40] mandated forclGT to offer a new
[2:47:42] GIS appraisal software package.
[2:47:46] appraisal software we support
[2:47:48] the software the appraisal
[2:47:51] methodology we also include IT
[2:47:53] services and support to counties
[2:47:53] that don't have an IT department
[2:47:57] we currently have68 counties
[2:47:58] utilizing our sponsored software
[2:47:59] package
[2:48:02] we offer support training and
[2:48:04] assistance to all77 counties
[2:48:05] upon request.
[2:48:10] are beginning we started in 1972
[2:48:13] the birth ofclGt was by Do Jim
[2:48:14] Chamblin. he was out of the
[2:48:15] engineering college
[2:48:18] and he wanted to mimic what was
[2:48:19] going on over in the extension
[2:48:20] over in the extension program in
[2:48:22] the ag collegelege so he
[2:48:23] developed a partnership with the
[2:48:24] cooperative extensionervice to
[2:48:26] provide training to local units
[2:48:27] of government
[2:48:30] they they concentrated on county
[2:48:32] clerks county treasurers and
[2:48:34] county commissioners in 1982 the
[2:48:37] legisl legislator reached out to
[2:48:38] the doctor Shamlin and asked if
[2:48:42] he would help implement and
[2:48:43] produce county purchasing
[2:48:43] handbook
[2:48:46] to honor the county purchasing
[2:48:47] actct that was established
[2:48:49] as a result of some
[2:48:53] unfavorable business practices
[2:48:53] of county commissioners
[2:48:56] that county purchasing actct
[2:48:58] is still in place it is
[2:49:00] administered now the training on
[2:49:01] that is administered by the
[2:49:03] Ag extensionroup over in the
[2:49:03] collegelege of that
[2:49:07] 1988 legislation House Bill1750
[2:49:11] introduced accreditation
[2:49:12] program introduce training for
[2:49:13] county ancestors and deputies
[2:49:16] ri or to that mandatory training
[2:49:20] you learned from the person
[2:49:22] you were going to replace in the
[2:49:23] assessor's office whether it
[2:49:24] was right, wrong or indifferent
[2:49:27] and the assessors association
[2:49:29] really courted the legislature
[2:49:31] to enact some type of mandatory
[2:49:32] training for county assessors
[2:49:35] the first accreditation class
[2:49:36] was delivered in September of
[2:49:38] 1989 and we've been doing that
[2:49:39] ever since
[2:49:42] also in that bill
[2:49:44] computerization of assessor of
[2:49:46] assessing officers who was
[2:49:47] enacted
[2:49:51] prior to that the assessment
[2:49:52] role and the tax roll both those
[2:49:53] documents were handwritten
[2:49:57] each year and so I was never
[2:49:58] able to work in the assessor's
[2:49:59] office because I didn't have
[2:50:00] good handwriting at that time
[2:50:03] but the computerization was
[2:50:04] really important both of those
[2:50:06] documents were produced with a
[2:50:09] with a pc a personal computer at
[2:50:11] that time during the 91990s is
[2:50:12] when that actually came to play
[2:50:16] computerization of mapping prior
[2:50:17] to that you know everybody was
[2:50:17] mapping on a piece of paper
[2:50:21] but a digital computerization
[2:50:23] software was introduced again
[2:50:24] you could map on a personal
[2:50:25] computer and on a Pc
[2:50:28] the introduction of the
[2:50:30] computersisted mass appraisal
[2:50:31] project was also at this time
[2:50:34] and the acronym canna that
[2:50:35] definition it has two
[2:50:38] definitions to it one it's a
[2:50:40] methodology of appraising a lot
[2:50:41] of properties in a very short
[2:50:42] period of time in Oklahoma we
[2:50:44] have the annual valuations so
[2:50:47] every January the assessor has
[2:50:48] to place a new place a value or
[2:50:50] at least adjust the value both
[2:50:52] on real property and tangible
[2:50:54] personal property that's subject
[2:50:55] to add alarm taxation
[2:50:58] A A also means it's a software
[2:51:00] package to help you do that it's
[2:51:01] strictly a tool to help you
[2:51:04] effectively generate a number
[2:51:06] that hopefully reflects fair
[2:51:06] market value according to the
[2:51:07] constitution
[2:51:12] and again this this this
[2:51:14] bill during this time there was
[2:51:16] a complete rewrite of Title68,
[2:51:17] the revenue and tax title
[2:51:20] title Article28 replaced
[2:51:22] Article24 at the time and it
[2:51:23] deals mainly with avaloum issues
[2:51:32] In2006clGt and the
[2:51:32] Oklahomaarative extension
[2:51:33] Service partnership dissolved
[2:51:35] and the
[2:51:40] theclGT retained the training
[2:51:41] for the assessors and the
[2:51:41] boardard of the equalization
[2:51:42] members
[2:51:46] the other mandatory training is
[2:51:47] still conducted by the
[2:51:48] cooperative extensioner for all
[2:51:50] the other elected offices
[2:51:53] assessors and sheriffs may
[2:51:54] attend the training offered by
[2:51:56] the corpo of the extensionervice
[2:51:58] how it's not a shall because we
[2:52:00] the both of those entities have
[2:52:00] obligated mandatory training
[2:52:05] in2008 the state auditor and
[2:52:08] inspector at the time during
[2:52:11] that 1988 iv reconstruction
[2:52:14] of the legislation state auditor
[2:52:16] was providing IT services to
[2:52:17] counties that didn't have an IT
[2:52:17] department
[2:52:20] and the auditor at the time
[2:52:21] wanted to be relieved of those
[2:52:22] duties and ask if we would take
[2:52:25] that on and so the computer
[2:52:26] county computer unit was moved
[2:52:27] toclGT.
[2:52:30] we still provide that service on
[2:52:31] we did it through a contractor
[2:52:31] now.
[2:52:34] in2018 the came bill House
[2:52:35] Bill3372 was approved
[2:52:38] by by governor Fallon
[2:52:41] and it ordered us to implement
[2:52:44] an OSUclGt camera system we went
[2:52:46] out and looked for a new chemist
[2:52:48] system GISba cheva system the
[2:52:49] one that was installed in the
[2:52:51] early 90s was administered by
[2:52:52] the Oklahoma Tax Commission ad
[2:52:53] alarm division
[2:52:55] and it was time to get a new
[2:52:56] one. It was26 years old at the
[2:52:58] time and so we went through the
[2:53:00] purchasing process at OSU and we
[2:53:01] secured a new chemist system
[2:53:06] so end of the programs now what
[2:53:07] do we do in the in the AapP
[2:53:09] program we provide the statutory
[2:53:10] statutory required initial and
[2:53:12] advanced accreditation provide
[2:53:14] technical assistance to county
[2:53:16] assessor's deputies and initial
[2:53:17] and continuing education to
[2:53:17] equalization board members
[2:53:21] the essential training program
[2:53:24] is comprised of seven units
[2:53:28] there's forts full4 full time
[2:53:29] instructors that work in the
[2:53:29] program
[2:53:32] the units the topics are
[2:53:33] defined in the statute what are
[2:53:34] we to teach
[2:53:36] unit one and two when you
[2:53:38] successfully complete those and
[2:53:40] when say successfully each
[2:53:41] course has a mandatory
[2:53:42] testing at the end of the course
[2:53:44] each of the seven courses has a
[2:53:46] fi0 question test and you have
[2:53:48] to make a70% in order to
[2:53:49] consider pass
[2:53:52] so unit one is an introduction
[2:53:54] to the assessor's office
[2:53:55] how do you how do you interact
[2:53:56] with the other offices in the
[2:53:58] courthouse what are your duties
[2:53:59] what are your responsibilities
[2:54:02] unit two is where we start
[2:54:03] introducing the approaches to
[2:54:06] value that was covered recently
[2:54:08] in in real property appraisal we
[2:54:09] introduced the cost approach was
[2:54:09] the cost to build it
[2:54:12] and the sales comparison
[2:54:12] approach the market approach
[2:54:14] properties that have sold we use
[2:54:15] that information to appraise
[2:54:16] properties that have not sold
[2:54:18] Once you successfully complete
[2:54:20] that then the tax commission
[2:54:22] will initiate will offer you
[2:54:23] an initial accreditation
[2:54:23] certificate
[2:54:26] then we go into the other
[2:54:29] courses unit 3 we talk about
[2:54:30] mass appraisal that's how do you
[2:54:31] appraise all those properties in
[2:54:32] that very short period of time
[2:54:35] unit four is the third approach
[2:54:35] to value the income approach.
[2:54:38] Unitive how do you value your
[2:54:41] personal property unit6 cadatral
[2:54:42] mapping that's just a fancy word
[2:54:44] for producing a tax map and then
[2:54:46] unit se is unique to Oklahohoma.
[2:54:47] how do you value your
[2:54:49] agricultural land so unit one
[2:54:51] and unit7 are unique to Oklahoma
[2:54:54] but the other five2 through6 are
[2:54:56] standard appraisal courses that
[2:54:58] are patterned after our
[2:54:59] professional organization that
[2:55:00] I'll discuss here at the end
[2:55:04] oncece you receive that
[2:55:04] advanced accreditation and you
[2:55:06] have a continuing education
[2:55:08] requirement beginning the
[2:55:08] January once you complete the
[2:55:09] courses
[2:55:12] eachach course or the all the
[2:55:13] courses are anywhere from one
[2:55:16] day to one day of the test and
[2:55:17] then from three full days of
[2:55:18] instruction to the following
[2:55:19] fourth day with an exam
[2:55:23] that consists of 124 hours
[2:55:24] sitting in the classroom that
[2:55:26] doesn't count nights weekends
[2:55:27] and other other times that you
[2:55:28] might need to prepare for that
[2:55:29] exam.
[2:55:32] The interesting part about
[2:55:36] this we have a wide range of
[2:55:38] folks that attend these courses
[2:55:39] currently we're we're teaching
[2:55:42] here in the Oklahoma City
[2:55:43] metropolitan area
[2:55:44] we're gonna be doing unit 3 next
[2:55:45] week
[2:55:50] in unit two we had students call
[2:55:52] them students I got stop that
[2:55:54] it's called learners now to be
[2:55:56] politically correct we had
[2:55:57] learners that just graduated
[2:55:58] from high school in May
[2:56:01] and we have season or senior
[2:56:02] folks that haven't been in the
[2:56:04] classroom for years haven't
[2:56:06] taken a test in a while and so
[2:56:08] our responsibility is to see
[2:56:10] that everybody's successful but
[2:56:12] we can only do so much as
[2:56:14] instructors and so we take a lot
[2:56:16] of time and effort to make sure
[2:56:18] that they are successful. not
[2:56:20] everybody is not everybody is
[2:56:21] successful and so that's
[2:56:23] unfortunate but you know we
[2:56:24] do our best to see that
[2:56:25] everybody has an opportunity to
[2:56:26] be successful
[2:56:30] in addition the county
[2:56:30] boardard of equalization
[2:56:32] training these are the folks
[2:56:33] that hear the protests on the
[2:56:33] evaluation process
[2:56:37] the statute authorizesclGt to
[2:56:38] develop and conduct the
[2:56:40] mandatory training for the board
[2:56:42] members within 12 months of
[2:56:44] their appointment to the board
[2:56:46] that's a sixhour training event
[2:56:48] and then upon completion of that
[2:56:50] they have a three hourur annual
[2:56:52] continuation credit. We offer
[2:56:54] the opportunity for those board
[2:56:56] members to attend some of those
[2:56:57] seven accreditation units if
[2:56:58] they want to to get those three
[2:57:00] hours but they can also attend
[2:57:02] the the boardard of equalization
[2:57:03] training that we're offering
[2:57:03] also
[2:57:08] Here's what we cover in that we
[2:57:10] talk about the duties of the
[2:57:11] board we talk about the open
[2:57:13] meetings open records actct we
[2:57:14] talk about the appraisal process
[2:57:17] the assessment process we spent
[2:57:18] a lot of time on the appeals
[2:57:19] process and we talk about some
[2:57:21] practical practical examples
[2:57:24] such as caps and freezes and
[2:57:25] senior freezes and and senior
[2:57:26] veterans
[2:57:28] exemptions and so on how does
[2:57:30] that affect the appraisal
[2:57:32] process that's been a very
[2:57:34] rewarding process we spent about
[2:57:36] an hour talking about that
[2:57:37] practical examples that those
[2:57:38] board members are going to
[2:57:39] encounter
[2:57:42] d d ition al training courses
[2:57:43] that we've done over the years
[2:57:44] the most popular right now is
[2:57:46] data collection and data entry
[2:57:47] both for residential and
[2:57:48] commercial properties we're
[2:57:50] bringing our learners into our
[2:57:52] classroom in Stillwater we take
[2:57:54] them out into the field we teach
[2:57:55] them what information you are to
[2:57:56] collect and then we wind up back
[2:57:58] in the computer lab on entering
[2:58:00] that information into the cheva
[2:58:01] system to see how the numbers
[2:58:01] are different
[2:58:04] we've we've offered excel in the
[2:58:06] past we've taken we've done some
[2:58:07] advanced income training that's
[2:58:08] a step up from our unit for
[2:58:09] income approach
[2:58:12] we we've done deeds and sales
[2:58:14] analysis in fact last week
[2:58:15] we've gone to some four hour
[2:58:16] workshops around the state where
[2:58:18] in the morning last week we
[2:58:20] talked about deeds and then in
[2:58:21] the afternoon we talked about
[2:58:22] how do you analyze that
[2:58:23] information to determine what's
[2:58:24] going on in the marketplace
[2:58:26] manufactured homes is always a
[2:58:29] popular topic to talk about you
[2:58:30] know get ready to move and you
[2:58:32] got to have a form and you know
[2:58:33] sometimes that farm's not in
[2:58:35] place and it's just kind of a
[2:58:36] convoluted process but we've
[2:58:38] been successful at at teaching
[2:58:39] how to do that
[2:58:41] manyy storage evaluation we've
[2:58:42] done some basic math in the in
[2:58:44] the past apartments convenience
[2:58:46] stores of course we're always
[2:58:46] talking about the cheva system
[2:58:48] and how do you how do you
[2:58:49] analyze that information in that
[2:58:51] system visual inspection plan
[2:58:52] and a budget for that and then
[2:58:54] map analyzer is the mapping
[2:58:56] component of the chemist system
[2:58:57] how do you how do you do that
[2:58:57] how do you how do you use that
[2:58:58] that
[2:59:00] that software package within
[2:59:02] that chemist system so those are
[2:59:04] some things that we you know
[2:59:07] covered in recent past
[2:59:10] we're always looking for other
[2:59:12] oper other opportunities each
[2:59:14] year at the annual Oklahohoma
[2:59:14] Tax Commission conference
[2:59:16] evaluation conference usually in
[2:59:17] august
[2:59:20] we're usually teaching about40
[2:59:22] to45% of those little
[2:59:23] workshopslash this past august
[2:59:24] we did commercial data
[2:59:25] collection and entry
[2:59:28] we talked about deed viewer
[2:59:30] module that's a module that
[2:59:32] allows the assessor to pull
[2:59:33] deeds from the county clerk's
[2:59:34] office without actually having
[2:59:36] to go and get a paper copy of
[2:59:37] that we can do it electronically
[2:59:39] we talked about generational
[2:59:40] perspectives how did the baby
[2:59:42] boomers deal with the latest how
[2:59:44] do they deal with those students
[2:59:45] that just graduated from high
[2:59:46] school that's employed in the
[2:59:48] assessor's office there's a you
[2:59:50] know a big hurdle for everybody
[2:59:51] to get along. We talked about
[2:59:52] the rankenberg Supreme Court
[2:59:54] case which talks about when you
[2:59:56] actually can put improvements on
[2:59:57] the on the assessment roll
[3:00:00] iveyear manufacturing exemptions
[3:00:01] data entry and maintenance how
[3:00:02] do we do that within the cheva
[3:00:04] system always talk about
[3:00:06] exemptions it's a really there's
[3:00:07] a lot of exemptions we cover
[3:00:07] those
[3:00:09] and then the assessor timeline
[3:00:11] the assessor's office operates
[3:00:12] on a very strict timeline when
[3:00:14] do you have to do what we cover
[3:00:15] that in that timeline
[3:00:15] presentation
[3:00:18] and again as I said we're we're
[3:00:20] constantly looking for topics to
[3:00:22] cover for training topics we're
[3:00:25] constantly asking ours our our
[3:00:26] constituents you know what do
[3:00:28] you need from us and we'll
[3:00:30] develop based upon a needs
[3:00:31] basis we'll develop topics if we
[3:00:32] know that there's a need and
[3:00:34] there's a request for a need
[3:00:36] again I've talked about the
[3:00:37] fourho workshops that we're
[3:00:39] doing just last week we did that
[3:00:42] we we did four hours in Tulsa
[3:00:43] we went to Mccalister the next
[3:00:44] day after that then we wound up
[3:00:45] in Woodward and then we
[3:00:47] followed up with
[3:00:53] Clinton I believelin or we I
[3:00:54] think it was Wetherford where we
[3:00:56] did that so that workshop we
[3:00:57] talked about deeds how do you
[3:00:58] analyze a deed how do you work
[3:01:00] deed within the camera system
[3:01:01] then in the afternoon we talked
[3:01:03] about ok let's analyze that
[3:01:04] information what does that sales
[3:01:05] information telling us about
[3:01:05] what's going on in the market
[3:01:09] and this reduces travel for our
[3:01:10] customers and we start at 10
[3:01:14] and we'll adjourn by 3 3:304
[3:01:16] o'clock depending on how in the
[3:01:18] weeds we want to get in the
[3:01:20] afternoon on that so been very
[3:01:21] successful at that topics that
[3:01:22] we've covered during these
[3:01:24] fourho workshops or again the
[3:01:26] mobile homeme manufacturing 936
[3:01:28] form and data entry on that
[3:01:30] Board of equalization dos and
[3:01:31] don'ts this is for the assessor
[3:01:32] how do you get ready to go to a
[3:01:34] protest to defend the value that
[3:01:36] you placed on that property
[3:01:37] we've talked about the visual
[3:01:38] inspection plan it's a four year
[3:01:40] plan how do you how do you get
[3:01:41] all that done within that for
[3:01:41] you you have to
[3:01:44] inspect all properties with
[3:01:45] Union County at least once every
[3:01:47] four years talked about deeds
[3:01:48] and sales analysis and again
[3:01:50] we're always looking for topics
[3:01:51] to cover in those little
[3:01:51] workshops
[3:01:54] the third component is the
[3:01:56] computer system massoposal
[3:01:58] project and we provide statutory
[3:02:00] training technical assistance
[3:02:01] software appraisal assistance to
[3:02:02] county assessors and deputies.
[3:02:02] we
[3:02:08] we currently have68 of the77
[3:02:10] counties on our our cheva system
[3:02:11] that we support
[3:02:14] we currently have 1f staff that
[3:02:16] support the software support
[3:02:18] training on the software
[3:02:20] appraisal training hands on site
[3:02:22] hands on training mapping
[3:02:24] training data entry and reports
[3:02:26] all kinds of reports are
[3:02:28] requested from the from the
[3:02:29] system and we trained on how to
[3:02:29] generate those
[3:02:32] this is just a map to showing
[3:02:34] you where these chemist staff
[3:02:36] are located they are employees
[3:02:38] of OSU but they're located at
[3:02:38] their home they work out of
[3:02:40] their home so that they don't
[3:02:41] have a lot of travel. they can
[3:02:42] work within their geographical
[3:02:46] area and much more efficient to
[3:02:47] do that instead of everybody
[3:02:47] being out of stillwater
[3:02:51] Recent legislation I'm sure
[3:02:52] everybody in this room's aware
[3:02:54] you know legislation is passed
[3:02:55] as session talked about
[3:02:58] how we're going to value some
[3:02:59] properties residential rental
[3:03:00] housing properties I just put
[3:03:02] that statute up there it refers
[3:03:05] back to2802 which defines what
[3:03:07] that is and it defines what
[3:03:10] residential rental housing means
[3:03:12] basically some multifamily
[3:03:14] housing and you know it looks
[3:03:15] like the statute says we're
[3:03:16] going to use the cost approach
[3:03:18] on that so I don't see a I don't
[3:03:21] see a huge impact for assessors
[3:03:24] to to understand how to do that
[3:03:25] we'll probably be involved in in
[3:03:25] some training
[3:03:26] to get that accomplished
[3:03:30] so now our professional
[3:03:32] organization every profession
[3:03:33] usually has an organization
[3:03:33] behind it
[3:03:35] and ours is the International
[3:03:36] association of assessing
[3:03:38] officeficers and that'siAAO for
[3:03:39] short
[3:03:41] I I bring that up because when I
[3:03:43] ask you to remember the letters
[3:03:44] behind our names on the first
[3:03:46] slide. this is a professional
[3:03:48] organization that was founded in
[3:03:50] 1934 to provide training
[3:03:51] professional designations and
[3:03:52] consulting to taxing
[3:03:55] jurisdictions across the world
[3:03:56] have about 8000 members
[3:03:59] worldwide in North America is
[3:04:01] the largest member of the
[3:04:02] organization but there's 35
[3:04:03] foreign countries also that has
[3:04:03] members
[3:04:06] our Oklahoma chapter of this
[3:04:07] organization was established in
[3:04:10] 1985 and currently there's
[3:04:11] about25 Oklahoma members that
[3:04:13] hold professional designations
[3:04:14] and there are the letters there
[3:04:16] I have a RAS which is a
[3:04:17] residential evaluation
[3:04:20] specialist carried on skidmore
[3:04:21] the first my assistant director
[3:04:22] she has an assessment
[3:04:24] administration specialist
[3:04:26] designation and there's are are
[3:04:28] other designations so I just
[3:04:30] brought that up to because in
[3:04:31] 1988 during that legislation
[3:04:31] reform
[3:04:35] the legis the legislators
[3:04:36] actually consulted with IWO to
[3:04:38] talk about you know what do we
[3:04:39] need what do we need to do for
[3:04:40] ratio studies and what do we
[3:04:43] need to do for education and so
[3:04:44] at that time the legislature
[3:04:46] adopted what we call inhouse
[3:04:48] training instead of going out
[3:04:50] traveling across the United
[3:04:52] States to get training from the
[3:04:53] International association they
[3:04:55] decided to haveclGt do the
[3:04:56] training and so we call it
[3:04:58] inhouse in Oklahoma training for
[3:05:00] accreditation purposesgain I I
[3:05:01] stated that you know5 of our
[3:05:04] courses are patterned after
[3:05:05] these courses administered by
[3:05:06] the association
[3:05:09] the association their courses
[3:05:10] are a little more in depth or a
[3:05:12] day longer there's of courses
[3:05:13] are a little bit more difficult
[3:05:14] their tests a little bit harder
[3:05:18] but to get a designation you
[3:05:20] have to take about6 or7 of their
[3:05:21] courses and pass a couple of
[3:05:23] masters exams in the in the in
[3:05:25] the end to go to get designated
[3:05:26] for one of the choices that s
[3:05:27] that an individual can choose so
[3:05:31] that's what I've got an
[3:05:31] entertain questions if there are
[3:05:32] any
[3:05:35] thank you for that presentation
[3:05:36] we appreciate the important work
[3:05:38] you'll do there and I think
[3:05:40] that's helpful to understand
[3:05:42] where our assessors and our
[3:05:42] other county officials get
[3:05:44] training from so thank you for
[3:05:46] that. proving down the agenda
[3:05:47] madam chairir if it's alright,
[3:05:48] we'd like to recognize Ron Dene,
[3:05:50] the Muscogee County assessor
[3:05:52] from my home county and he's
[3:05:54] gonna share his approach to
[3:05:55] assessing affordable housing
[3:05:55] units.
[3:06:00] thank you so much senator for
[3:06:02] hosting this this interim
[3:06:04] study I appreciate it very much
[3:06:06] thank you Senator Fricks for for
[3:06:07] asking me to present
[3:06:10] I I want to kind of give a
[3:06:12] little bit of of groundwork of
[3:06:14] of why Muskogee County is here
[3:06:16] and why Senator Pricks asked me
[3:06:18] to to speak on this topic
[3:06:20] topic we have got several of
[3:06:24] section42IHTc developments
[3:06:26] within our community that have
[3:06:27] been quite successful through
[3:06:30] the years of helping folks to
[3:06:34] both have affordable homes to
[3:06:36] live in or apartments but as
[3:06:37] well as a path to home ownership
[3:06:42] and so we're we're proud of
[3:06:43] of what has been done there and
[3:06:45] I look forward to a possibility
[3:06:47] of some additional
[3:06:48] developments in our community.
[3:06:52] Muskogee County has 155 single
[3:06:54] family homes that were built
[3:06:57] using the section42lIhTc program
[3:07:00] we also have 300 apartment or
[3:07:03] duplex units that gives us a
[3:07:05] total residential units that
[3:07:06] fall under this program in
[3:07:07] Muskogee County
[3:07:14] of455 individual residential
[3:07:14] units
[3:07:19] the next slide this is just a a
[3:07:21] single family home that is is
[3:07:24] one that is built under this
[3:07:26] program and it's they're
[3:07:30] they're around between 1100
[3:07:32] and1200 square foot two car
[3:07:35] garage and most of these were
[3:07:37] built in the original town site
[3:07:40] of Muskogee on infill lots
[3:07:42] vacant lots that had had been
[3:07:43] setting for a while the city
[3:07:44] the county and individuals
[3:07:45] worked
[3:07:48] with the developers to provide
[3:07:50] those lots and sell those
[3:07:54] this next one is actually in a
[3:07:57] development of53 homes where
[3:08:00] vacant land was purchased
[3:08:02] that had not been developed for
[3:08:04] years it was on the fringe of of
[3:08:07] older and and older neighborhood
[3:08:10] and the city worked with this
[3:08:12] builder to put in the the
[3:08:14] infrastructure and sidewalk
[3:08:14] streets and so on and so forth
[3:08:18] and then then it was was
[3:08:20] built and it's it's been a a a
[3:08:24] good representation this is a
[3:08:27] fi5 and older low income
[3:08:30] apartments that also falls under
[3:08:32] the same same program that
[3:08:35] was was built there in in
[3:08:38] town and my understanding is
[3:08:40] it has a waiting list constantly
[3:08:43] for folks because they're we
[3:08:44] have an aging population in
[3:08:45] Oklahoma
[3:08:49] and and folks that that
[3:08:51] their income is also
[3:08:54] restricted so this this
[3:08:55] development has been great for
[3:08:57] them this is an apartment
[3:09:00] complex that is not age
[3:09:02] restricted that that also
[3:09:04] falls under the the program
[3:09:10] this is a duplex we have got5
[3:09:14] different duplex developments
[3:09:16] within the county that that
[3:09:18] worked quite well and and
[3:09:20] have have fell under this
[3:09:24] this program the total valuation
[3:09:25] of these properties and I think
[3:09:27] this is is is very important to
[3:09:29] to look at these numbers the
[3:09:31] value total valuation of these
[3:09:34] properties for2026 it's 16,495,
[3:09:44] 37 $3 or $36,254 per unit the
[3:09:48] estimated taxes for2026 are
[3:09:55] $189,847 or417 dollars per unit.
[3:09:58] Those taxes pay for the services
[3:09:59] provided by the recipients of
[3:10:02] adviloum taxes and in our county
[3:10:04] those funds are broken down and
[3:10:05] distributed as displayed
[3:10:09] ub er schools
[3:10:17] receives $132,931 which is70.02%
[3:10:20] of all ad valoum dollars. the
[3:10:23] county receives 9.82%, which is
[3:10:28] $18,643 the botech the same
[3:10:34] 9.82%18,643eastern Oklahoma
[3:10:35] library district 3.
[3:10:45] 92 % or7,442
[3:10:47] EMServis2.9cent5600 dollars
[3:10:51] county health department2.45%
[3:10:54] uh4651 dollars and theusskogee
[3:10:56] cityity has a small sinking fund
[3:11:00] for tort claims and judgments of
[3:11:04] 1.02% or $1937 so as you can see
[3:11:05] every one of
[3:11:11] those $189,847 that are
[3:11:12] represented in taxes for
[3:11:16] those455 units are going for
[3:11:18] services that are used by the
[3:11:21] residents of that of those
[3:11:23] properties most of of these
[3:11:25] homes because of the nature of
[3:11:28] the program represent a child
[3:11:32] or two or 3 so you've got a lot
[3:11:33] of kids getting on buses at at
[3:11:34] all of these facilities every
[3:11:35] single morning they're going to
[3:11:38] the library they're using the
[3:11:40] health department and and
[3:11:42] hopefully the bow tech is is
[3:11:44] is able to offer a lot of
[3:11:46] education as well as our our
[3:11:47] schools
[3:11:52] working with a local developer
[3:11:54] in2006 that was building single
[3:11:57] family homes the the very first
[3:11:58] picture of the single family
[3:12:00] home that was a a developer that
[3:12:05] developed 142 of them and
[3:12:08] under this program we worked
[3:12:10] together to develop a method of
[3:12:12] valuation that we've used for
[3:12:14] the last 20 years in developing
[3:12:18] all of the LITcH programs
[3:12:18] within our county we use the the
[3:12:19] very
[3:12:23] same method in valuing all of
[3:12:24] them we developed the
[3:12:28] capitalization rate usingU rents
[3:12:30] and accounted for as as you
[3:12:32] presented earlier and I'm so
[3:12:34] glad you touched on that that
[3:12:36] these these developments
[3:12:39] normally have increased expenses
[3:12:42] those are are common for such
[3:12:44] developments so so we accounted
[3:12:47] for the increased expenses on
[3:12:48] those section42 tax credits
[3:12:53] were not used as income or
[3:12:56] considered in the cap the
[3:12:56] development of the
[3:12:58] capitalization rate but in the
[3:13:00] development of that cap rate we
[3:13:03] also did not include a recapture
[3:13:04] of the investment
[3:13:08] on that so it was a a cap rate
[3:13:10] that you would develop based on
[3:13:12] income but it was modified
[3:13:15] because there had been some
[3:13:18] recapture of that so where you
[3:13:20] normally would say for a fif
[3:13:23] to20 year period you're going
[3:13:24] to have a certain percentage
[3:13:26] every year that you've got to
[3:13:27] recapture
[3:13:30] we took that step out what that
[3:13:31] resulted in in removing that one
[3:13:34] step is a traditional cap rate
[3:13:35] on these properties would have
[3:13:38] been a 10.32 cap rate. The
[3:13:40] higher the cap rate the lower
[3:13:42] the value the lower the cap rate
[3:13:44] the higher the value with a
[3:13:46] modified cap rate just with that
[3:13:48] one step of recapture taken out
[3:13:52] it gave us a cap rate of 8.82%.
[3:13:55] Now what did that what did that
[3:13:56] result in in values the
[3:13:59] resulting valuation was the
[3:14:01] construction cost of these units
[3:14:04] in206 when they were built new
[3:14:09] was60,774 dollars and as as you
[3:14:10] eloquently put that that
[3:14:13] construction cost is not is not
[3:14:14] appropriate in this type of
[3:14:16] development to reflect the
[3:14:18] market value because of the
[3:14:20] different expenses that go along
[3:14:22] with it because of the of the
[3:14:24] rent rates a traditional cap
[3:14:26] valuation using that that
[3:14:31] 10.32 cap would have resulted in
[3:14:37] a $39,62 valuation or64.3% of
[3:14:40] the construction cost with the
[3:14:42] modified cap rate of 8.82 it
[3:14:48] gave us a value of45,709 or75.2%
[3:14:49] of the construction cost
[3:14:53] this developer built similar
[3:14:56] homes in multiple counties over
[3:14:57] several years and I believe
[3:14:58] you're very familiar with with
[3:15:01] this developer and during that
[3:15:04] time he he always encouraged the
[3:15:06] ancestors in those counties
[3:15:08] please call Muskogee County and
[3:15:09] visit with him we have a
[3:15:11] development there and we worked
[3:15:16] with them on a a fair
[3:15:18] approach to valuation and we're
[3:15:19] comfortable with it and we would
[3:15:19] like that applied on our
[3:15:23] properties in your county as as
[3:15:24] well and several of those
[3:15:27] candidates did did adopt that
[3:15:30] valuation method and it was very
[3:15:32] successful. It was a successful
[3:15:34] program for our community but it
[3:15:36] was also a successful program
[3:15:39] for the developer as well in2023
[3:15:42] he started selling off those
[3:15:45] homes and the median sale price
[3:15:47] for those homes was78,000
[3:15:49] dollars and at that time our
[3:15:49] meeting in a praised
[3:15:53] value on these properties
[3:15:57] were59,912 dollars so with with
[3:15:59] the sale price median sale price
[3:16:02] of78,000 and we had a value of59
[3:16:05] 912 it proved that over the
[3:16:10] course from2006 to2023 this
[3:16:12] developer was able to maintain
[3:16:15] take care of a lot of
[3:16:16] maintenance and a lot of upkeep
[3:16:18] in his properties when he sold
[3:16:19] them were in near as good a
[3:16:19] shape as
[3:16:22] they were when he built them
[3:16:24] in2006 because of the way that
[3:16:25] they were managed and he was
[3:16:27] able to do that using the
[3:16:30] modified valuation that we had
[3:16:33] and at the same time his folks
[3:16:35] that were residents in those
[3:16:37] properties were being serviced
[3:16:39] by the tax dollars that were
[3:16:40] were being provided on those
[3:16:42] properties it was not a burden
[3:16:44] for the developer and then at
[3:16:46] the time the sale happened he
[3:16:49] realized a profit on those
[3:16:49] properties and
[3:16:53] at the same time we were at a
[3:16:56] reasonable defence in
[3:17:02] valuation on that so as
[3:17:04] as the other presentative said I
[3:17:06] I would be willing to take any
[3:17:08] questions now from anyone or at
[3:17:10] the end of the presentation and
[3:17:11] I appreciate your time
[3:17:13] thank you so much for your
[3:17:14] presentation and I think that's
[3:17:16] very helpful and appreciate you
[3:17:17] making the trip over here today
[3:17:20] and and to to present finally
[3:17:22] our our final presenter today
[3:17:24] isissa Button she's with
[3:17:26] Dominium, she's the director of
[3:17:28] their government relations and
[3:17:29] with that madam chairir I'd like
[3:17:30] to turn it over to Marissa thank
[3:17:32] you so much and thank you madam
[3:17:34] chair thank you Senator Fricks I
[3:17:35] just want to acknowledge you did
[3:17:37] such a great job succinctly
[3:17:38] explaining the light tech
[3:17:39] program and probably better than
[3:17:40] any of us that are in the weeds
[3:17:41] could do that so so
[3:17:44] props for that so so thank
[3:17:45] you all really a pleasure to be
[3:17:47] here my approach is going to be
[3:17:48] just a touch different say I'm
[3:17:50] going to humanize the things
[3:17:51] that we're talking about with
[3:17:54] regard to these policies as we
[3:17:56] look at affordable housing
[3:17:57] developments I think there's
[3:17:58] definitely a through line in
[3:18:00] this session from the last
[3:18:02] interim study the whole reason
[3:18:03] we're talking about this is
[3:18:04] there's a deficit in housing
[3:18:06] supply throughout the state and
[3:18:09] there is certainly a big toolbox
[3:18:10] that has a lot of tools for a
[3:18:11] multifamily rental to home
[3:18:14] ownership programs that these
[3:18:16] policies are designed to to
[3:18:18] facilitate because there is a
[3:18:20] deficit in supply. So a little
[3:18:23] bit about dominion we have a
[3:18:25] significant presence in Oklahoma
[3:18:26] we're in the process of
[3:18:27] developing over the next few
[3:18:27] years
[3:18:31] about 1000 units of multifamily
[3:18:32] affordable workforce housing
[3:18:34] through the light tech program
[3:18:35] which you've heard a ton about
[3:18:36] today so I'm not going to go
[3:18:38] into the weeds about yi tech
[3:18:39] functionally in this
[3:18:42] presentation but but with that
[3:18:44] these are developments of
[3:18:46] significant size and a
[3:18:46] significant number of units in
[3:18:50] scope and we've worked with
[3:18:51] the Oklahoma housing finance
[3:18:53] Agency to really pull out their
[3:18:55] bond program and get a real
[3:18:56] scale of development to meet
[3:18:57] that housing needs so I wanted
[3:18:58] you
[3:19:00] to know that's the framework in
[3:19:02] which I'm I'm talking about
[3:19:03] today so even though my slides
[3:19:04] talk about light tech I will
[3:19:06] jump through it pretty quickly
[3:19:07] because I know we're coming to
[3:19:09] time as well but I think
[3:19:10] something that's important to
[3:19:12] understand when we talk about
[3:19:14] policy related to affordable
[3:19:16] housing and particularly tax
[3:19:18] policy as we get in the weeds is
[3:19:21] y tech in many ways is different
[3:19:22] than what some think about
[3:19:23] affordable housing so you're
[3:19:24] going to hear me myth bust in
[3:19:26] the next few minutes as well.
[3:19:27] obviously as it has been
[3:19:28] describe
[3:19:30] d light tech is a financing tool
[3:19:33] and it is an incentive to build,
[3:19:36] develop and invest in areas so
[3:19:37] in this state the reason the
[3:19:39] program is really important
[3:19:41] and effective is it is because
[3:19:43] it incentivizes that investment
[3:19:45] and it's not investment from the
[3:19:46] developer that comes in but it's
[3:19:48] the investment in the financing
[3:19:50] partners as well it's the
[3:19:51] investment in the increased
[3:19:53] value through commercial
[3:19:56] benefits to those areas as well
[3:19:57] so it really is a remarkable
[3:19:57] program and it's
[3:20:00] been around for40 years so
[3:20:04] that's really a hallmark of the
[3:20:05] program as well it is not a
[3:20:08] rental subsidy and so I just
[3:20:09] want to you know whenever we
[3:20:10] have the mic I like to do some
[3:20:12] myth busting about that lie tech
[3:20:14] is not a rental subsidy it's
[3:20:15] something much different. These
[3:20:17] are modern quality apartments
[3:20:18] designed to serve the workforce
[3:20:22] in an area and the beautiful
[3:20:24] part about the program aslance
[3:20:27] mentioned is once you get those
[3:20:27] credits and it becomes that
[3:20:28] financing
[3:20:30] tool and you get that investment
[3:20:32] there is long term monitoring
[3:20:34] for the commitments that are
[3:20:35] made in that program so
[3:20:40] OFA is a excellent partner and
[3:20:42] they are mandated to make sure
[3:20:44] that these developments serve
[3:20:45] the incomes that they are
[3:20:46] limited to and charge the rents
[3:20:48] that are limited which
[3:20:50] ultimately is a charitable
[3:20:52] purpose of the program itself
[3:20:54] it's meeting the gap it's
[3:20:55] serving those needs in the
[3:20:56] community and the state housing
[3:20:58] finance agency is the one that's
[3:21:00] making sure that laura that
[3:21:02] lance mentioned that has all
[3:21:03] those requirements is is
[3:21:05] actually being set forth but
[3:21:05] the beautiful part about the
[3:21:06] public
[3:21:08] private partnership is not only
[3:21:10] do you get it from OA but you
[3:21:11] get it from your private
[3:21:12] investment as well you know
[3:21:14] there's banks that have invested
[3:21:15] there's private financing
[3:21:16] partners that have put debt on
[3:21:18] this that you're responsible for
[3:21:20] paying back through part of the
[3:21:21] life of the development in the
[3:21:22] permanent phase and they are
[3:21:24] also tracking and making sure
[3:21:25] these things are happening. so
[3:21:27] it is a legit very legitimate
[3:21:28] program that provides a big
[3:21:30] incentive to the community. I'm
[3:21:32] gonna go through some
[3:21:36] quick example slides these
[3:21:37] developments are specs of
[3:21:38] certain things that dominion's
[3:21:40] done over time but what you see
[3:21:42] is these communities provide
[3:21:44] amenities that are beneficial to
[3:21:46] the community to add value
[3:21:48] overall to the residents and
[3:21:50] have overall sort of maintenance
[3:21:52] as well with on site management
[3:21:55] and the in unit amenities
[3:21:58] have high standards as well and
[3:22:00] part of what we're doing here is
[3:22:01] making sure that when you drive
[3:22:02] by any development, well yes it
[3:22:04] may be different because it is
[3:22:06] income restricted and rent
[3:22:07] restricted. Anybody that's
[3:22:10] driving by has no idea that that
[3:22:12] is housing that is subsidized
[3:22:13] anyway they're proud to have it
[3:22:14] a part of their community it is
[3:22:16] serving a need and a deficit of
[3:22:18] units and housing supply in the
[3:22:20] community and it's really
[3:22:20] important that it presents that
[3:22:23] way as well and some may say but
[3:22:24] my gosh these things they seem
[3:22:26] so fancy will ultimately we are
[3:22:28] doing a quality product that is
[3:22:30] going to be under an
[3:22:32] affordability restriction for 30
[3:22:33] fi0 sometimes
[3:22:35] into the perpetuity depending on
[3:22:36] the program that it's financed
[3:22:38] with so if we do quality on the
[3:22:40] front end it extends through the
[3:22:42] life of the development you're
[3:22:44] not coming back and having to do
[3:22:45] a significant amount of
[3:22:46] refinancing or becoming a blight
[3:22:48] to the community overall that
[3:22:49] would perpetuate stereotypes
[3:22:51] about affordable housing so we
[3:22:52] think this is really important
[3:22:54] and again family development
[3:22:55] you've got a playground here
[3:22:56] you've got an outdoor grilling
[3:22:58] area things that anybody would
[3:23:01] like to have you know where
[3:23:02] they live you know I said
[3:23:03] that
[3:23:05] I would make this about the who
[3:23:06] a little bit more and try to
[3:23:08] humanize it and part of this is
[3:23:10] understanding who lives in live
[3:23:11] tech developments and what
[3:23:12] charitable benefit and need does
[3:23:15] it serve? So you heard in the
[3:23:18] last session Mr beaver from offA
[3:23:20] talked about the sort of need
[3:23:21] study that was done throughout
[3:23:22] the state at a statewide level
[3:23:24] and this is just some
[3:23:24] information that complements
[3:23:26] that from the national
[3:23:28] lowwcomehousing coalition we
[3:23:30] have a significant amount of
[3:23:32] renters in Oklahoma that are
[3:23:33] paying more than half
[3:23:36] of their income on their housing
[3:23:37] costs.grams like Lytech are
[3:23:39] designed to serve those cost
[3:23:40] burdened individuals and get
[3:23:44] them below 30% of their income
[3:23:46] being attributed to their
[3:23:47] housing
[3:23:49] to their housing costs because
[3:23:50] you know when it goes the cost
[3:23:53] burden increases that individual
[3:23:55] does not have the resources to
[3:23:56] address things like healthcare
[3:23:58] transportation where they're
[3:23:59] getting their groceries, what's
[3:24:01] happening with that and part of
[3:24:02] the issue with the deficit is
[3:24:04] you've got developers and
[3:24:06] landlords in the state that
[3:24:07] cannot build or operate rental
[3:24:09] homes at prices that are
[3:24:11] affordable to households because
[3:24:12] what the household can pay in
[3:24:14] rent can't cover the cost to
[3:24:15] build and operate the project so
[3:24:16] this is just really a through
[3:24:18] line of whatlance is mentioning
[3:24:19] as well and why when you talk
[3:24:21] about valuation and and and
[3:24:21] things of that nature
[3:24:24] when you have a light tech deal
[3:24:25] when the market changes you
[3:24:26] can't just increase rents right?
[3:24:28] And so that's a really
[3:24:30] significant thing when we
[3:24:31] understand the impacts of
[3:24:32] operating expenses on a
[3:24:35] development and what is
[3:24:36] available for operating income
[3:24:38] on a development as well so this
[3:24:41] is just a little snapshot
[3:24:42] Oklahoma City so right this is
[3:24:44] not statewide for Oklahoma the
[3:24:46] little snapshot theli tech
[3:24:47] program those income limits and
[3:24:49] rent limits are dictated by how
[3:24:50] they come out every year they
[3:24:51] are updated by
[3:24:56] metropolitan areas and and so
[3:24:57] there's a whole methodology
[3:24:58] behind it. I didn't make this up
[3:25:00] that all all of that is to say
[3:25:01] but it's a recognition of what
[3:25:02] you can see here in live tech
[3:25:04] developments you're mostly
[3:25:04] serving folks that are at or
[3:25:07] below60% area median income and
[3:25:09] when HUD comes out with those
[3:25:12] income limits that goes by
[3:25:14] persons in the household and I
[3:25:16] have the 140% threshold here
[3:25:17] because the beauty of this
[3:25:19] program also from a myth busting
[3:25:21] perspective is that it does not
[3:25:21] incentivize people
[3:25:24] not to get promotions or not to
[3:25:26] get better jobs or not to
[3:25:28] increase income. The program
[3:25:29] recognizes
[3:25:30] as long as you're initially
[3:25:32] qualified if your income
[3:25:34] increases and gets up to that
[3:25:36] 140% threshold you are allowed
[3:25:38] to stay in the development and
[3:25:40] the beauty of that is you start
[3:25:42] saving you you go through that
[3:25:44] sort of spectrum of now I can
[3:25:46] move into one of the single
[3:25:48] family homes that are being
[3:25:49] produced either through this
[3:25:51] you know program or you know
[3:25:52] being able to access down
[3:25:54] payment assistance for a single
[3:25:56] family home so so we know it's a
[3:25:58] long sort of road to housing so
[3:25:59] to speak as that has been
[3:25:59] brought up today
[3:26:00] but this is a really important
[3:26:02] aspect of the program to mythbus
[3:26:04] that and so when we talk about
[3:26:05] rent limits the other thing that
[3:26:07] this demonstrates is really
[3:26:10] that there are we have a just
[3:26:12] the difference between 80% AMI
[3:26:15] and60% AMI again you have the
[3:26:16] income limits of what someone
[3:26:17] makes but then what can the
[3:26:18] renter be charged and what is
[3:26:20] that you know upward limit for
[3:26:22] households and it increases with
[3:26:23] the number of persons but
[3:26:26] it's60% AMI those are the posted
[3:26:27] rent limits in Oklahoma City
[3:26:28] what this tells you is these are
[3:26:29] members of your work
[3:26:32] f or ce People are working here
[3:26:34] to pay rent to the owner
[3:26:35] operators of the developments as
[3:26:38] well and so you know there's a
[3:26:40] lot of like we've talked
[3:26:42] about before sort of negativity
[3:26:44] and thoughts about affordable
[3:26:46] housing and that the people that
[3:26:47] live there aren't contributing
[3:26:48] to either the workforce or the
[3:26:50] economy or antiquated ideas
[3:26:52] about folks that live there are
[3:26:53] criminals or or things like that
[3:26:54] or it brings an unsavory aspect
[3:26:56] to a community and that's just
[3:26:58] simply not the case from an
[3:26:59] individual perspective you
[3:27:00] have people contributing to the
[3:27:04] economy from a perspective of
[3:27:05] the quality of the
[3:27:06] developments that come in and
[3:27:08] the data that reflects the
[3:27:09] values of the property
[3:27:10] surrounding those developments
[3:27:12] in light tech increase as well
[3:27:14] it's really important so the
[3:27:16] other piece of that is through
[3:27:18] OA that long term
[3:27:20] affordability period is being
[3:27:22] monitored residents are having
[3:27:23] background checks done like all
[3:27:26] of this is a really well oiled
[3:27:27] machine in place from that
[3:27:28] regulatory perspective and so
[3:27:29] these are
[3:27:30] not real residents these are
[3:27:32] stock photos as you can probably
[3:27:34] tell. but this sort of gives you
[3:27:36] a snapshot right? John Sarah and
[3:27:38] three kids you have someone
[3:27:39] these these salaries are pulled
[3:27:41] from indeed in this area.
[3:27:43] pharmacy tech toddler teacher
[3:27:46] combined annual income of63,000
[3:27:48] we have a fiveperson income
[3:27:50] limit through that methodology I
[3:27:51] told you about of just
[3:27:53] over63,000 they fall within the
[3:27:54] income limit they've got a four
[3:27:56] bedroom rent and this allows
[3:27:58] them to also as I mentioned
[3:27:59] before not
[3:28:01] be stuck at that level continue
[3:28:02] to improve in their careers and
[3:28:04] their own economic development
[3:28:06] as a family another example
[3:28:08] Daniella and daughter again
[3:28:09] stock phototo made up but pulled
[3:28:11] data from Deercreekschools.org
[3:28:14] it shows that the same kind of
[3:28:16] thing. So I'm gonna jump
[3:28:17] through we know there's an
[3:28:18] economic impact the thing that I
[3:28:20] will bring this into a closing
[3:28:21] in is that
[3:28:24] when we talk about uncertainty
[3:28:26] in the ad valorem tax for
[3:28:28] affordable housing and any
[3:28:30] valuation. what it does is it
[3:28:31] puts a chilling effect on that
[3:28:34] investment from folks who want
[3:28:36] to come in and provide that
[3:28:37] economic impact to Oklahoma so
[3:28:39] whether it's valuation or
[3:28:41] whether it is the tax exemption
[3:28:43] itself being approved at
[3:28:46] those assessor's offices we
[3:28:48] need predictable policy in order
[3:28:50] to have predictable investment
[3:28:51] thank you so much
[3:28:53] and happy to take any
[3:28:53] questions later.ppreciate it.
[3:28:57] thank you for that presentation
[3:28:59] that was very helpful and again
[3:29:00] want to thank all of our
[3:29:02] presenters today for for sharing
[3:29:04] and with that madam chair we
[3:29:05] turn over to you if you'd like
[3:29:06] to take any questions or
[3:29:08] conclude from there.
[3:29:10] no thank you think we're we're
[3:29:11] going to take a quick
[3:29:12] breaksenator Peterson is here
[3:29:14] thank you all for coming today
[3:29:16] lots of information this is
[3:29:17] complicated and it's definitely
[3:29:18] something that we need to be
[3:29:20] having conversations about
[3:29:21] because we for sure want
[3:29:22] workforce housing and we don't
[3:29:24] want to accidentally mess things
[3:29:25] up so thank youure
[3:29:26] we'll be back here
[3:29:28] for Senator Peterson at 130.
[3:38:30] OK everyone we are now going to
[3:38:32] turn the floor over to senator
[3:38:34] Peterson thanks for coming
[3:38:36] today. Always good to see you
[3:38:38] and we are praying for rain for
[3:38:40] everyone and you are on the list
[3:38:43] too. right with that most of
[3:38:44] y'all have been in here all day
[3:38:45] just some quick housekeeping
[3:38:46] this is informal you don't have
[3:38:48] to work through the chair.
[3:38:50] Senator Peterson I'll let you
[3:38:51] run the meeting and turn it over
[3:38:52] to you and we'll just have a
[3:38:53] great conversation. I do have a
[3:38:54] hard stop
[3:38:57] at2:30 so I'm gonna keep us on
[3:38:58] on track but now the floorage
[3:38:59] yours
[3:39:02] thank you madam chairir and
[3:39:04] thank you for allowing this
[3:39:06] interim study to be held today
[3:39:07] and thank you for everybody
[3:39:08] that's in attendance that are
[3:39:09] interested in this topic
[3:39:12] this is actually a requested by
[3:39:14] the department of commerce and
[3:39:15] currently there are two bills
[3:39:16] with conflicting language
[3:39:20] regarding foreign adversaries
[3:39:22] and national security and how
[3:39:23] those two
[3:39:26] are kind of different and
[3:39:26] spelled out in two different
[3:39:27] bills and we're here to address
[3:39:28] that
[3:39:30] commerce engages daily with
[3:39:33] counties utilities title
[3:39:35] companies and economic
[3:39:36] development organizations that
[3:39:39] want to follow the law and keep
[3:39:41] projects moving right now two
[3:39:42] statutes use different
[3:39:44] frameworks in place the
[3:39:46] department of of commerce at the
[3:39:48] center of intake without giving
[3:39:49] them authority to make
[3:39:49] determinations
[3:39:52] they're proposing a fix to be
[3:39:54] considered today at this time
[3:39:56] I'll turn the study over to
[3:40:00] Jennifer Gover, little son the
[3:40:01] state federal legislative
[3:40:03] liaison with the Oklahoma
[3:40:03] Department of Commerce.
[3:40:06] thank you and thank you madam
[3:40:08] chair for listening to our
[3:40:10] our interim study this afternoon
[3:40:12] we have been working on this for
[3:40:13] a while this is something
[3:40:16] that we're requesting an
[3:40:18] amendment to some legislation I
[3:40:19] wanted to introduce Mark
[3:40:20] Wells who's our director of
[3:40:22] global trade and and investments
[3:40:24] and he and his team has come
[3:40:26] across something that's very
[3:40:27] interesting and we're looking
[3:40:28] forward to working on this with
[3:40:29] the senate so at this time I'll
[3:40:29] pass it over to Marc.
[3:40:33] thank you very much madam
[3:40:34] chairir thank you Senator
[3:40:35] Peterson thank you very much for
[3:40:38] your support on this project
[3:40:41] very simply we are bringing
[3:40:43] this bill before you today or
[3:40:46] this SB893 that had been
[3:40:48] passed and just suggest
[3:40:50] making a couple of observations
[3:40:52] and suggestions and I have a
[3:40:54] presentation to try to put it
[3:40:56] into some context and I'll just
[3:40:59] say that my comments are
[3:41:00] mainly about
[3:41:04] section four which pertains to
[3:41:06] national security I do have a
[3:41:08] background in national security.
[3:41:10] I'm joined by Rob Wilcox from
[3:41:12] the department of Commerce also
[3:41:14] a veteran and a deep background
[3:41:15] in that those issues
[3:41:19] so if I could just say talk for
[3:41:20] just a moment about the
[3:41:22] importance of foreign direct
[3:41:26] investment in Oklahoma it is
[3:41:27] already a very important part of
[3:41:30] our economic base majority
[3:41:32] owned US affiliates of foreign
[3:41:34] multinational enterprises employ
[3:41:39] about60,000 Oklahomans as of2024
[3:41:44] and that includes about25,700
[3:41:46] jobs in manufacturing OK and
[3:41:48] over the last five years the
[3:41:50] foreign direct investment has
[3:41:51] the commitments on foreign
[3:41:53] direct investment has exceeded6
[3:41:55] billion dollars so roughly
[3:41:59] about5400 jobs are related to
[3:42:00] foreign direct investment at an
[3:42:05] average wage of65,500. Now
[3:42:07] Oklahoma when you compare it to
[3:42:08] other states that are are
[3:42:09] competitors
[3:42:12] they actually have a lower stock
[3:42:15] in FDI or foreign direct
[3:42:18] investment and what we have
[3:42:19] attracted is unusually
[3:42:22] concentrated in manufacturing
[3:42:25] and so roughly43% of foreign
[3:42:27] affiliate employment in Oklahoma
[3:42:29] is in manufacturing and that's
[3:42:32] compared with about 35%34%
[3:42:34] nationally and that matters
[3:42:36] because these are the areas
[3:42:38] where we are focused most in
[3:42:39] commerce our strategy to attract
[3:42:43] advanced manufacturing
[3:42:46] aerospace, energy equipment
[3:42:47] critical mineral processing and
[3:42:49] other capital intensive sector
[3:42:51] so this is exactly where we want
[3:42:52] to grow and foreign direct
[3:42:54] investment plays an important
[3:42:57] part. These companies don't only
[3:42:59] employ Oklahomans but they also
[3:43:01] create economic opportunities
[3:43:03] for Oklahoma suppliers working
[3:43:05] in the same industry they bring
[3:43:08] capital technology and knowhow
[3:43:09] that can raise productivity and
[3:43:09] increase the value of
[3:43:12] Oklahoma's economy and so the
[3:43:14] policy challenges really not
[3:43:16] about whether or not foreign
[3:43:18] investment is good or not what
[3:43:19] we want to say is Oklahoma
[3:43:22] welcomes foreign investment but
[3:43:23] we want investment that narrows
[3:43:24] the risks that might be
[3:43:26] associated with ownership by
[3:43:28] foreign adversaries and that is
[3:43:30] really the topic that we wanted
[3:43:32] to talk about what happens when
[3:43:34] a country that is considered a
[3:43:38] foreign adversary tries to
[3:43:39] invest in the United States.
[3:43:39] there is a federal government
[3:43:44] system that is long established
[3:43:46] since 1975 theittee on Foreign
[3:43:48] Investment in the United States
[3:43:50] it's known asyus it's run by the
[3:43:52] department of Treasury and it is
[3:43:55] a committee with members of the
[3:43:56] intelligence community, the
[3:44:00] military as well as commerce and
[3:44:02] other law enforcement agencies
[3:44:04] and what they do is review
[3:44:05] transactions
[3:44:09] they can they review any kind
[3:44:12] of foreign transaction that
[3:44:15] would give control of
[3:44:17] certain technologies or
[3:44:21] properties to US foreign uh'm
[3:44:23] sorry to foreign businesses be
[3:44:25] it a foreign adversary or just
[3:44:28] any old country that is
[3:44:29] outside of the United States so
[3:44:32] it can improve a transaction it
[3:44:34] can require mitigation can it
[3:44:35] can say we don't like the way
[3:44:36] that this deal is structured and
[3:44:38] they could they could request it
[3:44:40] being changed they could ask
[3:44:42] for a divestiture and in some
[3:44:44] very rare cases the president
[3:44:46] himself can order that an
[3:44:48] investment be unwound and it
[3:44:50] has happened a couple of times
[3:44:54] and so what I am just trying
[3:44:57] to impart is that this is it
[3:44:59] already exists it is a a riskbas
[3:45:02] look at transactions. I'm not
[3:45:04] actually talking about
[3:45:05] physical area just yet which our
[3:45:06] law
[3:45:07] gets into so
[3:45:11] so what we're not trying to
[3:45:13] do is recreate this process this
[3:45:14] already exists it serves the
[3:45:18] entire country and as
[3:45:21] opposed to and the federal
[3:45:23] government has the you know the
[3:45:25] authority over our national
[3:45:25] security
[3:45:27] the state has the authority
[3:45:29] over property ownership and here
[3:45:30] is where maybe some of the
[3:45:32] tension lies so
[3:45:35] I have presented you all with
[3:45:37] a paper that shows this I don't
[3:45:38] have a slide on it for the
[3:45:41] audience but the what we did was
[3:45:44] we took SB893 and we took
[3:45:46] thecifius currentyus regulations
[3:45:48] and we mapped it out. So for
[3:45:51] uhyus the k there are there is a
[3:45:53] geographic jurisdiction and
[3:45:54] there's a transactional
[3:45:58] jurisdiction and the the current
[3:46:00] list of sensitive sites as
[3:46:02] defined by the federal
[3:46:03] government will give
[3:46:06] you 100 mile radius around
[3:46:09] Tinker Alti and Vance Air Force
[3:46:11] bases and a one mile radius
[3:46:12] around Fort Sill and the
[3:46:15] Mccalister army ammunition
[3:46:16] plant. there may be others there
[3:46:18] that you consider sensitive this
[3:46:20] is the current list that
[3:46:22] thetreasury department is
[3:46:23] working from it is informed by
[3:46:26] the department of war. Now what
[3:46:28] that means is within that
[3:46:32] within those zonesyeus has a
[3:46:33] geographic
[3:46:36] jurisdiction over a
[3:46:37] transaction so if some company
[3:46:39] wants to come in and be in that
[3:46:42] zone if it's if it is any
[3:46:44] kind of foreign countryytheus
[3:46:46] has jurisdiction in certain
[3:46:48] cases those are going to be
[3:46:50] mandatory I should have
[3:46:52] pointed out at the top I'm not a
[3:46:54] lawyer so lawyers make a
[3:46:56] lot of money working through
[3:46:58] thesecius cases and I have
[3:47:00] talked to several of them as
[3:47:02] I've worked through this
[3:47:02] process but as my
[3:47:04] understanding of it is
[3:47:07] the the other thing that they
[3:47:10] have jurisdiction is any
[3:47:12] transaction over certain
[3:47:16] types of of technology
[3:47:18] critical infrastructure and
[3:47:20] in sensitive personal data. So
[3:47:22] even aside from the zones that
[3:47:25] are marked by the yeus map
[3:47:26] there could be other
[3:47:27] transactions that would be
[3:47:28] reviewable by yeus
[3:47:33] so SB893 operates differently.
[3:47:36] it prohibits a foreign principle
[3:47:38] from from a foreign adversary
[3:47:40] country from directly or
[3:47:42] indirectly purchasing holding
[3:47:44] renting or otherwise controlling
[3:47:48] real property within 10 miles of
[3:47:50] a military base or installation
[3:47:53] a military operating area or
[3:47:55] other critical infrastructure
[3:47:56] so we know where the bases are
[3:47:58] those are a lot more than what
[3:47:59] just what we have in
[3:48:02] theius map and the critical
[3:48:04] infrastructure definition in
[3:48:08] SB893 is very broad so I mean if
[3:48:10] you look we decided we couldn't
[3:48:12] even run all of it on the the
[3:48:14] GIs technology we had but we put
[3:48:16] as much of it in as we could and
[3:48:18] it pretty much blacks out the
[3:48:22] entire state as far as a
[3:48:23] prohibition on foreign
[3:48:24] adversaries owning or
[3:48:25] controlling directly or
[3:48:28] indirectly any real property. So
[3:48:29] and I didn't even get to what a
[3:48:30] military
[3:48:32] operation area is or anything
[3:48:33] like that so it is let's just
[3:48:36] say that the law effectively
[3:48:37] prohibits any of this action
[3:48:40] within the confines of the state
[3:48:42] so not trying to argue one
[3:48:43] way or the other here just
[3:48:45] pointing out that that is the
[3:48:48] effective impact of the
[3:48:50] legislation so restrictions
[3:48:52] on land ownership in Oklahoma
[3:48:54] are not new. we all know that
[3:48:56] it's the constitution has long
[3:48:58] limited land ownership by non-S
[3:48:59] citizens
[3:49:02] it's subject to a bona fide
[3:49:04] residency exception initle60
[3:49:05] implements that constitutional
[3:49:05] rule
[3:49:08] there's also section three of
[3:49:10] this bill which I'm not here to
[3:49:11] address today but it also
[3:49:12] restricted corporate farming and
[3:49:17] ranching since 1978 so they
[3:49:19] these laws do have apply to a
[3:49:21] foreign corporation and it
[3:49:22] can include a a corporation
[3:49:25] organized outside of Oklahoma so
[3:49:27] the definition there would
[3:49:30] also include a oh let's just
[3:49:31] say a company from Texas would
[3:49:32] be considered foreign to an
[3:49:34] Oklahoman under that law. So
[3:49:35] these restrictions have never
[3:49:35] really amounted to a
[3:49:38] general prohibition on
[3:49:40] commercial activity in Oklahoma
[3:49:43] by companies from foreign
[3:49:45] countries the state corporate
[3:49:47] law permits out of state and
[3:49:49] foreign companies to to
[3:49:50] qualify to do business here in
[3:49:52] corporations generally may own
[3:49:55] real estate necessary to conduct
[3:49:56] lawful businessssentially it's
[3:49:59] just if they engage in
[3:50:01] interstate commerce they are
[3:50:02] able foreign companies are able
[3:50:05] to operate and own land in
[3:50:05] uhokklahoma so there
[3:50:08] had been a shift recently in the
[3:50:10] United States toward this
[3:50:12] national security question of
[3:50:14] should we be protecting areas
[3:50:17] close to sensitive sites as I
[3:50:18] mentioned Oklahoma has these
[3:50:21] military bases but we are also a
[3:50:25] hub for energy and
[3:50:28] pipelines all of those of course
[3:50:30] are extremely important to us
[3:50:31] and we want to make sure we're
[3:50:32] doing our part to protect
[3:50:35] against vulnerabilities so SB893
[3:50:35] which takes
[3:50:39] effect on this coming July 1st
[3:50:42] it moved further to create
[3:50:43] restrictions tied to
[3:50:44] agricultural land that's section
[3:50:48] 3 and then section four this
[3:50:49] military geography and critical
[3:50:51] infrastructure that I
[3:50:52] mentioned earlier
[3:50:55] let me just say a word about
[3:50:57] some of the other states that
[3:50:59] have passed laws similar to
[3:51:01] this. I'll focus on Florida,
[3:51:03] Texas and Arkansas. I'll say
[3:51:04] there's I think Nebraska is the
[3:51:06] only other one that's really
[3:51:07] gotten the law through so
[3:51:09] Oklahoma is really a a pioneer
[3:51:10] in this area. I think across
[3:51:12] the country about40 states have
[3:51:14] seen legislation proposed in
[3:51:16] this area but these are the ones
[3:51:18] that have been successful so
[3:51:20] Florida adopted their framework
[3:51:22] in2023. they restrict certain
[3:51:23] foreign
[3:51:26] principles from acquiring
[3:51:27] agricultural land and from
[3:51:28] acquiring real property within
[3:51:30] 10 miles of military
[3:51:32] installations and specified
[3:51:33] critical infrastructure
[3:51:35] facilities. Their definition
[3:51:36] and I had an interview with them
[3:51:38] their definition is is pretty
[3:51:40] confined and not nearly as
[3:51:44] expansive as what we have in
[3:51:45] their case they created their
[3:51:48] own law their own list of
[3:51:49] foreign adversaries is
[3:51:51] determined by the governor and
[3:51:52] Florida commerce established an
[3:51:53] office called Se
[3:51:56] cu re Florida which with a
[3:51:58] staff of six monitors foreign
[3:52:02] ownership in Florida so there
[3:52:04] was a legal challenge to this
[3:52:08] law again not a lawyer but
[3:52:10] it does run afoul of there's
[3:52:12] allegations that it violates the
[3:52:14] equal protection clause of the
[3:52:18] US Constitution of the
[3:52:20] singling out of nationalities
[3:52:21] and so
[3:52:24] states have relied on other
[3:52:26] people making the lists other so
[3:52:28] Florida went ahead and made
[3:52:29] their own list
[3:52:32] this has not been tested
[3:52:34] fully in federal courts there
[3:52:37] have been challenges but so
[3:52:38] far most have been dismissed.
[3:52:40] I'll talk about one other but
[3:52:41] but others have been dismissed
[3:52:42] for lack of standing
[3:52:47] ex enacted SB17 in2025 which
[3:52:48] restricted real property
[3:52:51] acquisitions by governments
[3:52:53] companies organizations and
[3:52:55] individuals connected to
[3:52:56] designated countries in this
[3:52:59] case they use the the
[3:53:00] director of national
[3:53:01] intelligence annual threatat
[3:53:03] assessments report that comes
[3:53:05] from the federal intelligence
[3:53:08] community and it also allows
[3:53:10] the governor to assign other
[3:53:12] countries and again they had
[3:53:13] another challenge to that law
[3:53:16] and that has been struck down
[3:53:18] for the the challenge was struck
[3:53:20] down for a lack of standing so
[3:53:22] some of these questions have not
[3:53:23] really been tested. I want to
[3:53:24] just mention Arkansas because
[3:53:26] it's a a very interesting
[3:53:28] lesson here in Arkansas so they
[3:53:32] used a a foreign adversary
[3:53:35] list derived from the
[3:53:36] international traffic and arms
[3:53:40] regulations or the ITAR and
[3:53:42] that drew a legal challenge and
[3:53:43] the judge sustained it
[3:53:45] because the purpose of the ITarR
[3:53:48] law is related to selling
[3:53:50] arms abroad which countries can
[3:53:53] and can and you you can and
[3:53:53] cannot sell arms to
[3:53:56] so when they when the judge
[3:53:57] looked at it they said this
[3:53:58] really has nothing to do with
[3:54:01] state property ownership and
[3:54:03] they struck it down. So I think
[3:54:04] the lesson that Oklahoma takes
[3:54:06] here is that the
[3:54:09] the purpose of the law that
[3:54:10] we're using we don't want to
[3:54:12] name our own I think based on
[3:54:14] some of the arguments I've
[3:54:16] already said and so we do want
[3:54:18] to defer the question of
[3:54:18] national security foreign
[3:54:20] adversaries to the federal
[3:54:24] government so what we what we
[3:54:26] want to look at here is the
[3:54:29] current language in SB893 which
[3:54:32] the governor signed last May
[3:54:34] so here's what a foreign
[3:54:35] adversary is in that law it's
[3:54:40] countries designated by the
[3:54:42] secret of state as hostile or as
[3:54:44] countries of particular concern
[3:54:46] and the problem is that the
[3:54:48] country of particular concern is
[3:54:50] principally a religious freedom
[3:54:53] designation so this is
[3:54:54] countries that the secretary of
[3:54:56] state identifies as practicing
[3:54:58] religious intolerance it was
[3:55:01] not created as some sort of
[3:55:02] national security investment
[3:55:03] classification
[3:55:07] and it matters the list
[3:55:09] that it can include countries
[3:55:10] for you know strictly
[3:55:12] religious freedom questions
[3:55:14] I'll just say currently Saudi
[3:55:16] Arabia and Nigeria are on that
[3:55:18] list and so if the law were
[3:55:20] enacted it would it would
[3:55:21] implicate any kind of investment
[3:55:24] from from those countries but
[3:55:26] also that the religious freedom
[3:55:28] is informed by a committee that
[3:55:31] meets regularly and they have
[3:55:32] put on their list of
[3:55:33] recommendations which the secret
[3:55:33] of state
[3:55:36] may or may not take that we
[3:55:38] should also add India andvietnam
[3:55:40] to that list and that gets us
[3:55:42] pretty far beyond the sort of
[3:55:44] bad guy country foreign
[3:55:47] adversary countries that we
[3:55:49] typically think of when we
[3:55:50] invoke national security
[3:55:51] concerns
[3:55:53] so
[3:55:56] there is a better fit in federal
[3:55:58] law and existing federal law the
[3:56:00] department of Commerce maintains
[3:56:01] a foreign adversary designation.
[3:56:04] I'll read the site it's 1f
[3:56:10] CFr791.4 and that that list
[3:56:14] will include the
[3:56:16] people's Republic of China, Cuba
[3:56:22] Iran, North Korea, Russia and
[3:56:24] Venezuela but under the Maduro
[3:56:28] regime so that list is I
[3:56:30] think much more much tighter
[3:56:32] and much closer to the concerns
[3:56:34] that we have expressed with
[3:56:36] regard to vulnerabilities of
[3:56:39] being close to a sensitive sites
[3:56:40] so
[3:56:44] the suggestion or the
[3:56:45] recommendation of the department
[3:56:47] of commerce is that we just
[3:56:50] switch out those designations
[3:56:52] take out the CPC language and
[3:56:54] find one that better matches and
[3:56:55] that one is the foreign
[3:56:56] adversary. I'll just say that
[3:56:58] the department of commerce, the
[3:57:00] secret of commerce makes these
[3:57:02] designation and it's typically
[3:57:06] under a protection of of data
[3:57:09] and personal information but
[3:57:10] it is
[3:57:12] much closer I think
[3:57:14] especially since those are
[3:57:15] considered critical
[3:57:16] infrastructure by the federal
[3:57:18] government so that's our
[3:57:21] principal recommendation
[3:57:23] today. I I wanna throw in one
[3:57:24] other item just sort of based on
[3:57:27] our experience in commerce
[3:57:30] we do get questions regularly
[3:57:33] from our partner economic
[3:57:35] development offices or EDOs
[3:57:36] as well as from Oklahoma
[3:57:38] citizens with regard to
[3:57:39] companies that are looking to
[3:57:40] invest in
[3:57:43] Oklahoma and so
[3:57:47] what we've realized is that
[3:57:49] we we would have to let even if
[3:57:50] you had a foreign adversary
[3:57:52] investment you would have to let
[3:57:54] that proceed until we hit a
[3:57:55] certain point where the law
[3:57:58] would get triggered and we've
[3:58:00] had instances where a
[3:58:02] purchaser knew that they were
[3:58:03] dealing with a foreign adversary
[3:58:04] and yet they proceeded anyway
[3:58:06] and they said well show us what
[3:58:08] state incentives that we should
[3:58:09] get and so we realize there
[3:58:11] really isn't a prohibition or an
[3:58:12] ineligibility for state
[3:58:13] incentives in the law so it is
[3:58:17] something that we raise the
[3:58:18] that you all may want to
[3:58:20] examine of do you want to create
[3:58:24] an ineligibility in that law
[3:58:26] so I think the way the way we've
[3:58:28] described it is that an
[3:58:31] applicant for economic
[3:58:34] development incentives should be
[3:58:36] required to disclose relevant
[3:58:38] beneficial ownership and attest
[3:58:40] to compliance with this law
[3:58:44] and this would be an
[3:58:46] eligibility decision not any
[3:58:47] legal determination which you
[3:58:48] know the law there's another
[3:58:50] section with regard to the
[3:58:52] attorney general's role in
[3:58:54] and the attorney general can
[3:58:56] make whatever judicial
[3:58:57] actions they want to take but
[3:58:58] this would just be an
[3:59:02] administrative fix for to
[3:59:04] sync up SB893 with our
[3:59:08] economic incentives I think
[3:59:10] what we want to do here is just
[3:59:11] protect our
[3:59:14] communities from getting too far
[3:59:16] down making down the road on
[3:59:18] a project making some investment
[3:59:21] spending capital at for a
[3:59:23] project that couldn't come to
[3:59:26] fruition anyway due to this
[3:59:28] prohibition and if you have an
[3:59:32] applicant that you know
[3:59:34] does not disclose this or hides
[3:59:36] this material fact they're
[3:59:37] they're and they have received a
[3:59:39] benefit obviously there ought to
[3:59:40] be some repercussion of a
[3:59:41] suspension
[3:59:44] or clawback of the provisions.
[3:59:47] So just to say what what we
[3:59:49] we don't want to do is set up
[3:59:51] a like commerce department
[3:59:54] national security check or
[3:59:55] anything like that we
[4:00:00] we think that umytheus is the
[4:00:02] one that has access to
[4:00:04] intelligence and diplomatic
[4:00:05] reporting and military knowledge
[4:00:08] not stuff that the that a state
[4:00:09] government typically works in we
[4:00:11] we deal with the questions of
[4:00:14] property ownership but we do
[4:00:17] need enough capability to
[4:00:18] understand beneficial
[4:00:21] ownership reco any kind of
[4:00:24] foreign adversary link and so
[4:00:25] this is a practical function of
[4:00:25] economic development that
[4:00:28] I think is developing and so
[4:00:30] it's interesting that we're in
[4:00:32] this moment of with this
[4:00:35] piece of legislation so
[4:00:39] we want communities,
[4:00:40] companies, citizens to be able
[4:00:42] to call us and for us to be able
[4:00:44] to give them advice on this and
[4:00:48] we have done that and we stand
[4:00:51] ready to do that if they are
[4:00:52] think that they are dealing with
[4:00:54] a foreign adversary so
[4:00:59] I'll just say section 3 again
[4:01:00] the agricultural section does
[4:01:01] have a carve out
[4:01:06] for if you have had a yus
[4:01:08] agreement section4 doesn't have
[4:01:11] a carve out so you know the
[4:01:12] conceivably there could be a
[4:01:14] company that isn't agricultural
[4:01:18] that employees there there
[4:01:20] is PRC investment in
[4:01:24] Oklahoma. I would guess
[4:01:26] just based on scans of of
[4:01:28] businesses that that's not more
[4:01:30] than about500 and it's not to
[4:01:31] say that those jobs would
[4:01:31] immediately be
[4:01:34] lost but it might involve a
[4:01:36] company needed to make a a
[4:01:39] divestment decision but if
[4:01:40] one of those companies had
[4:01:44] aifius agreement or had been
[4:01:46] reviewed by yeus and approved
[4:01:48] there currently is no they would
[4:01:51] still be in violation of SB893
[4:01:54] so something to consider but it
[4:01:55] is not the
[4:01:57] it's not a formal
[4:02:00] recommendation on our part so we
[4:02:01] appreciate that you've done the
[4:02:02] major policy work here by
[4:02:04] deciding about foreign adversary
[4:02:07] ownership we just wanted to
[4:02:10] offer up this act of of
[4:02:12] making a a little bit more
[4:02:13] precise a little bit closer to
[4:02:15] the purposes and so
[4:02:18] we think that this these changes
[4:02:20] would preserve Oklahoma's
[4:02:22] ability to recruit legitimate
[4:02:24] foreign investment while giving
[4:02:26] the state a clearer and more
[4:02:27] defensible framework for dealing
[4:02:30] with investment tied to
[4:02:32] designated foreign adversaries.
[4:02:33] thank you very much for your
[4:02:33] attention. I'll turn it back
[4:02:35] hm
[4:02:38] and we'll add it back to send
[4:02:40] it back to Jennifer thank you
[4:02:41] and I wanted to share that
[4:02:42] we've been speaking with Mark
[4:02:44] and his team has been speaking
[4:02:45] with the attorney general as
[4:02:46] well as with Brady so that
[4:02:48] we've been in contact with this
[4:02:50] and they're aware of it they are
[4:02:52] in support of this interim
[4:02:54] study and so just to make it
[4:02:56] really clear and easy we're
[4:02:59] asking for the current language
[4:03:02] to be amended on page 10 it has
[4:03:04] that actual yep the offer of
[4:03:05] what that is and so if
[4:03:08] there's any more questions
[4:03:10] we'll hand it over to Senator
[4:03:11] Peterson so thank you
[4:03:16] will there be questions
[4:03:21] I don't have any questions
[4:03:24] right now I know that I will
[4:03:25] obviously looking through this
[4:03:26] thank you for bringing this
[4:03:29] Senator Peterson I think this is
[4:03:30] a really important conversation
[4:03:31] that we do need to have
[4:03:36] so thank you if there's
[4:03:37] anything else you can land the
[4:03:38] plane or
[4:03:40] offer closing comments. would
[4:03:41] you mind turning your yep
[4:03:44] perfect all right thank you the
[4:03:46] two bills that were considered
[4:03:49] was Senate Bill223 and and
[4:03:52] senate bill 893 they were
[4:03:54] enacted in at different times
[4:03:58] and so the the last bill 893 was
[4:03:59] the one that seemed like really
[4:04:00] was pretty encompassing so this
[4:04:02] brought some special attention
[4:04:04] to to what we really need to do
[4:04:06] here so with that being said
[4:04:08] if there are no questions
[4:04:09] that's the presentation that we
[4:04:09] had planned for the day thank
[4:04:10] you.
[4:04:14] thank you everyone we have I
[4:04:16] think another meeting here in a
[4:04:17] couple of weeks we'll be getting
[4:04:20] that agenda item out probably
[4:04:22] this week or next week but
[4:04:24] thank you for coming and you
[4:04:26] have something else to again
[4:04:28] thank you for the commerce team
[4:04:30] for putting this all together
[4:04:32] it's was
[4:04:32] they can say
[4:04:34] considered it pretty
[4:04:38] in a in a small list here of ask
[4:04:40] I think into one main ask and I
[4:04:42] think it's pretty simple as so
[4:04:43] anyway thank you for your work
[4:04:46] yeah you guys did a great job of
[4:04:47] course I always enjoy working
[4:04:48] with you and seeing you also
[4:04:50] with that we are adjourned
[4:04:51] for today. thank you everybody