[0:02] but I want to thank everybody
[0:04] for being here this morning. I see a
[0:05] lot of brass and a lot of
[0:07] dear friends and stuff and
[0:08] uh uh this
[0:09] is I'm excited
[0:11] about this because it's
[0:13] passion, I mean,
[0:14] safety, especially in rural
[0:15] Oklahoma
[0:16] and it's,
[0:18] uh, it's
[0:19] just something we just
[0:21] need
[0:23] interim studies are great because
[0:24] we bring this stuff to
[0:26] a lot that a lot of people don't
[0:27] understand.
[0:29] Anyhow, I wanna thank
[0:31] Representative Rey
[0:32] for leaving Nashville to
[0:33] make you here on time today. So,
[0:35] uh, but, uh,
[0:36] anyhow, he
[0:38] is, he's a dear
[0:39] friend, dear brother, just like
[0:41] most people. But, um,
[0:42] thank y'all. And like I said,
[0:43] uh, Uh,
[0:45] I'm gonna turn it over to him
[0:47] and if there's got any
[0:48] questions, direct them to him
[0:50] and if I see somebody that
[0:51] does it or whatever,
[0:53] but, um,
[0:54] uh and
[0:55] a few other state reps,
[0:56] so it'd be the state reps
[0:58] asking questions. So
[1:00] all righty, but I'm gonna turn
[1:01] it over to you.
[1:03] Representative, thank
[1:04] you. >> Thank
[1:05] you Chairman Dempsey
[1:07] and again
[1:09] I know this is
[1:10] an interesting challenge
[1:11] statewide. Those of
[1:13] us that represent rural
[1:14] areas have been
[1:16] dealing with this for
[1:17] quite some time.
[1:19] Uh, I have had
[1:20] some conversation obviously
[1:22] with folks in the five counties
[1:23] that I represent and
[1:24] I
[1:26] think I got a pretty good handle
[1:27] on the challenges that we have
[1:29] out there, but I thought it was
[1:30] important to have the
[1:32] conversation statewide.
[1:33] And look at
[1:35] the funding mechanisms that
[1:36] we have, the
[1:38] challenges that we're facing
[1:39] obviously
[1:40] with
[1:42] To say escalated costs is
[1:44] an understatement,
[1:45] obviously,
[1:46] and many
[1:47] municipalities and
[1:49] local county governments
[1:50] and things like that
[1:52] are having a hard time
[1:54] meeting the challenge.
[1:56] It has created a market
[1:58] opportunity for
[1:59] a private
[2:01] enterprise to get involved, and
[2:02] I know that that
[2:04] is
[2:05] very
[2:06] Uh, very
[2:08] popular in a lot of
[2:09] parts of the state. So,
[2:11] uh, with that, I'm
[2:12] just, before I get to
[2:13] introducing the speakers
[2:15] today, uh,
[2:16] I do want
[2:17] to
[2:20] Bring my my
[2:21] perspective just real
[2:22] quickly,
[2:23] uh,
[2:26] The members around the table
[2:28] are
[2:28] all
[2:31] Mature
[2:32] and I'm being polite there,
[2:34] but I, I, I
[2:34] certainly
[2:36] remember growing
[2:38] up in my
[2:39] hometown when the
[2:40] ambulance was parked at the
[2:42] funeral home and
[2:43] either the ambulance or the hearse
[2:45] went out and
[2:46] that's the way that that
[2:48] was managed for a long
[2:50] time. Uh,
[2:51] in in the 70s, whenever the
[2:53] 522
[2:54] districts
[2:55] started forming
[2:57] and funding,
[2:58] uh, cities
[3:00] in a lot of cases took that
[3:01] over and,
[3:02] and, you know, actually manned
[3:04] it with utilities,
[3:05] public works
[3:07] employees that got
[3:08] their got their
[3:10] health and emergency training
[3:11] and things to do that.
[3:13] We added
[3:15] Onca time, which was an
[3:17] extra income for some of
[3:18] those folks around whenever we
[3:20] paid people to be on
[3:21] time for basic
[3:22] service and just in
[3:24] time we have we
[3:25] have transformed and
[3:27] enhanced and
[3:28] added to additional
[3:30] service to where, you know
[3:32] not only do we pay people
[3:33] to be ready for a call,
[3:35] uh, we we pay them
[3:37] 24/7
[3:39] for you know, even
[3:40] enhanced service and
[3:42] I know
[3:42] that.
[3:45] A lot of counties
[3:46] have countywide services.
[3:48] I have that
[3:49] in my area. I
[3:51] have A
[3:52] single provider
[3:54] for the county and right
[3:55] next door, I have a
[3:57] county with
[3:58] 4 districts
[4:00] and uh some of
[4:02] them are doing better than others,
[4:03] but everybody sees the
[4:05] the trend.
[4:06] that is concerning them
[4:08] for the future. So with
[4:09] that, I would like
[4:11] to get into the
[4:12] speakers and I, I greatly
[4:14] appreciate my friend Bobby
[4:15] Stem here who
[4:17] represents the Oklahoma
[4:19] nonprofit EMS
[4:20] services that are here and and
[4:22] encouraged me
[4:23] to to have this
[4:25] study and has helped
[4:26] me get a handle on
[4:28] the challenges that he
[4:30] sees and his folks
[4:31] see that so when we get
[4:33] into
[4:34] The speakers
[4:35] here, uh,
[4:36] first, since I
[4:37] didn't
[4:41] Have it handy. Let me pull it
[4:43] up real quickly
[4:44] here.
[4:46] Our very, our very first
[4:48] speaker
[4:49] today, Marie Schel
[4:50] is with the
[4:52] Oklahoma Tax Commission, the
[4:53] director of tax
[4:55] policy research,
[4:56] uh, hopefully will, will
[4:58] let us, help
[4:59] us understand
[5:01] how these districts
[5:03] are funded
[5:04] and, uh,
[5:05] the way things have worked
[5:07] historically in this
[5:08] state. So
[5:09] we will hear
[5:11] from her and
[5:13] and uh
[5:14] establish the the financial
[5:16] challenges here before we get
[5:17] into the operations talk.
[5:19] So Marie,
[5:21] if you would speak from the
[5:22] podium or wherever you're comfortable
[5:24] seated is fine what you
[5:25] bet, whatever you're comfortable
[5:27] with. I greatly appreciate
[5:28] your time for being
[5:30] here today and we'll turn it over
[5:31] to you.
[5:33] >> Well, thank you very much. I appreciate
[5:35] it and thank you to the chairman and
[5:36] members of the committee for allowing me
[5:38] to be here today.
[5:39] Um, I'm gonna give kind of
[5:41] an overview of the,
[5:42] well, this is really loud,
[5:44] the history of where
[5:45] 522 funding came
[5:46] from. Um, and
[5:48] so if you have any questions along the way,
[5:49] please let me know, stop me
[5:51] throughout or afterwards, whatever
[5:53] that works for me.
[5:55] see if I can figure this out.
[5:57] OK, so going back
[5:58] to the background and history
[6:00] of where 522
[6:01] funding came from, it
[6:02] all started in 1976
[6:04] with state question 522,
[6:06] which is where the term 522
[6:08] funding came from,
[6:09] and that was passed by
[6:11] voters and it allowed the rural
[6:12] and local communities to
[6:14] establish these EMS
[6:15] districts. And
[6:17] so the passage of
[6:18] state question 522
[6:20] put in Article 10
[6:21] section 9C
[6:23] which gives the
[6:24] outline of how all of this
[6:26] works. And so it's
[6:27] very detailed on the,
[6:29] how the districts are formed,
[6:31] how many levy or how
[6:32] many mills they can levy
[6:35] for the operations,
[6:36] additional levies for a sinking
[6:38] fund. Um,
[6:39] it specifies that the levy
[6:41] will apply to all taxable
[6:42] property within the district,
[6:44] whether it's real or
[6:45] personal. And then
[6:46] it'll be in addition to any
[6:48] other property tax
[6:49] levies.
[6:50] And then there's also an Oklahoma
[6:52] statute that
[6:53] pertains to this, and that's in
[6:55] Title 19,
[6:57] section
[6:57] 1710.1.
[6:59] It's very
[7:01] it um specifies
[7:02] that the use of those
[7:04] funds is for the
[7:05] administration of the EMS districts.
[7:07] And it also states that
[7:09] the district can operate its own
[7:11] service or it can
[7:12] contract that out. So
[7:14] those are gonna be your
[7:15] statutory and constitutional
[7:17] provisions that you'll look to if
[7:18] you want more information about
[7:19] this.
[7:23] So a little more of the
[7:24] process. So to establish
[7:26] an EMS district
[7:27] at the beginning, the
[7:29] voters have to vote that in
[7:31] and approve whatever levy
[7:32] it is. And so the constitution
[7:34] provides that the districts
[7:35] can be
[7:37] county
[7:38] boundaries, they can be
[7:40] part of a county, they can be all
[7:41] of the county, they
[7:43] can span multiple
[7:44] counties. It just depends on however
[7:45] it's set up. And so that'll
[7:47] be put forth to the voters
[7:48] at the beginning. And then
[7:50] that same vote will
[7:51] approve whatever levy that
[7:53] they want to do. and the constitution
[7:55] says for the
[7:56] operations it could be up to
[7:57] 3 for
[7:58] that. And then there's
[7:59] another vote
[8:01] that they could have to do an
[8:02] additional mill.
[8:04] Up to 3. So you
[8:05] could actually have a total of 6
[8:07] mills for EMS
[8:08] funding. Typically, it
[8:10] starts with 3.
[8:11] Voters would have to approve an
[8:12] additional 3 if
[8:14] they so chose, and that
[8:15] would be for the sinking fund
[8:17] to get vehicles, equipment,
[8:18] facilities, that sort of
[8:19] thing.
[8:21] And so if voters were to
[8:22] approve that,
[8:24] then an EMS
[8:25] district board is set
[8:27] up by whatever
[8:28] local jurisdiction, say it's
[8:30] your county
[8:31] commissioners or your city
[8:33] council would set up an EMS
[8:34] district board to
[8:36] govern that EMS
[8:37] district. And so
[8:39] they would, once the voters approve
[8:40] a certain levy amount,
[8:42] that EMS district
[8:43] board then formally
[8:45] sets that levy and
[8:46] sends it over to the county clerk.
[8:48] They will then certify
[8:49] it. That then goes
[8:51] to the county assessor
[8:52] who applies it to your property
[8:54] evaluation.
[8:55] Which then goes to the county treasurer
[8:57] who sends out your annual
[8:59] property tax bills and they're
[9:00] the ones that actually collect that
[9:02] funding and send it
[9:03] to the EMS district for
[9:05] distribution and however they use it.
[9:06] So that's how the process kind of works to
[9:08] actually fund these EMS
[9:10] districts.
[9:12] Yes, >> if you if you don't
[9:14] mind just
[9:15] because
[9:16] recently
[9:17] uh Hennessy
[9:19] has requested
[9:21] and voted to set up their
[9:22] own district
[9:24] and it is
[9:25] by school district
[9:27] and I know that many of them
[9:28] are by school district
[9:30] uh.
[9:32] When your school district gets into
[9:34] multiple counties,
[9:36] uh,
[9:38] In, in this particular case,
[9:40] I guess my question is there, there's
[9:41] there's only a, a
[9:43] very, very small
[9:45] number of folks that
[9:46] are in an outlying county
[9:48] that were omitted from
[9:50] the original question and
[9:51] so they're going to have to
[9:52] have
[9:53] a,
[9:55] additional vote, I
[9:56] believe, for that particular,
[9:58] uh, section
[10:00] of the neighboring county
[10:01] in the school
[10:02] district.
[10:04] If that doesn't pass
[10:06] by those handful of voters
[10:07] there,
[10:08] then they can
[10:10] continue to
[10:11] form the district
[10:12] without that portion of
[10:14] the county. Is that >> correct?
[10:16] Yes, I believe
[10:17] so. >> All right, thank
[10:18] >> you.
[10:21] On it is when
[10:23] they do these votes for the
[10:24] county, is it
[10:26] just for EMS or is it
[10:27] like for all like
[10:29] volunteer fire departments and
[10:30] everything involved in this?
[10:32] >> Well, when they do this vote
[10:33] specifically, it's for the EMS
[10:35] district levy
[10:36] and to form that district. I think
[10:38] if there was an additional like
[10:39] fire tax or
[10:41] anything like that, it'd be an additional
[10:42] vote. or I guess if they
[10:43] combined it, I don't know how that
[10:45] works exactly.
[10:47] >> Can, can I assume.
[10:48] Today in talking about
[10:50] this EMS
[10:51] district for our
[10:53] purpose here this morning
[10:54] we're just talking about ambulance
[10:56] service, >> correct? Yes,
[10:57] that's what I'm talking about it's just
[10:58] EMS.
[11:01] >> We've got a couple of a couple of
[11:02] questions for you,
[11:03] um.
[11:05] When, when you're talking about this,
[11:07] this vote and this levy,
[11:08] you're, you're going back to
[11:10] the landowners, right?
[11:11] as the ones that are
[11:13] going to pay the bill, is
[11:14] that correct? now is that in
[11:16] the constitution or
[11:18] is that something that instead of
[11:19] doing a ad valorum
[11:21] we could do a sales
[11:22] tax? >> There is
[11:23] a statute about sales tax, and
[11:25] I have a slide at the very end
[11:26] about that, uh, but this
[11:28] one is talking about property
[11:29] tax. This 522
[11:31] funding is a property tax
[11:32] and the voters
[11:34] or the property owners that
[11:35] live within whatever district
[11:37] boundaries they're doing are
[11:38] are the ones that would vote for it.
[11:40] >> But you, it is,
[11:42] it is in the Constitution
[11:43] that we can do a sales
[11:45] tax basically,
[11:46] basically for the same thing. is that
[11:47] >> correct? There's a statute that says
[11:49] we can do the >> statute says,
[11:50] OK, you mentioned
[11:52] something. I don't know if it's going to be you
[11:53] or somebody else, but
[11:55] when, uh,
[11:56] Rep Debrinski was talking about,
[11:58] you know, the, the county
[12:00] voting and certain people
[12:01] not, not in that
[12:02] vote. Um,
[12:04] as far as the ambulance service, and
[12:06] this may not be something for
[12:07] you, but an ambulance
[12:09] service can't turn
[12:10] down a call for
[12:11] service, is that correct? or do
[12:13] you even, >> I don't
[12:14] know,
[12:16] >> I'll get that question out to somebody else.
[12:17] Thank
[12:18] you.
[12:21] >> Alright.
[12:24] So the next slide I have kind
[12:25] of discusses more about the
[12:27] levy itself,
[12:29] and so, and this may be very
[12:30] basic, but
[12:31] I actually did not know what a
[12:33] mill is
[12:34] specifically, and so I
[12:35] put up here the mill is
[12:37] $1 of tax for every
[12:38] $1000 of a
[12:40] property's assessed value.
[12:42] so that's actually the definition
[12:43] and In the
[12:45] Constitution, it sets out that
[12:46] there's a max of 3
[12:47] mills for the operation. So
[12:49] 3 mils would then be
[12:50] 0.003
[12:52] for your calculation or
[12:53] 0.3%.
[12:55] So, just some background on
[12:56] that. And like I
[12:57] said before, there is a
[12:59] max that can be
[13:00] levied. And for the
[13:01] just operations, the initial
[13:03] vote, it can be up to 3
[13:04] and then they can do an additional
[13:06] up to 3. It doesn't have to
[13:07] be 3,
[13:09] for a sinking fund
[13:11] for a total of 6, it could be. I don't
[13:12] think any of them currently
[13:14] have a total of 6, but I
[13:15] have a slide kind of showing
[13:17] the different,
[13:18] different ones they
[13:19] have.
[13:21] And so what does this mean for property
[13:23] owners? I want to give an example of
[13:25] how this would actually
[13:26] affect your
[13:27] property tax or how
[13:29] it would be calculated based on your
[13:30] properties. So if you had a
[13:32] fair market value of
[13:33] $100,000 for your house,
[13:35] and this example shows with a
[13:36]  exemption and without,
[13:38] just to give an example,
[13:39] um, and so each county has
[13:41] a different assessment
[13:43] ratio. It's between 10
[13:44] and 15% depending on
[13:46] your county. In my
[13:47] example, I picked 11%,
[13:49] and so your
[13:50] assessment ratio is going to be
[13:52] applied to your fair market value
[13:53] of your home.
[13:55] And that will give you in
[13:56] this example,
[13:57] $11,000. And then
[13:59] you would subtract the most
[14:00] we any exemptions you
[14:02] had. So the most common is your 
[14:04] exemption. And so if you
[14:05] had that, you would subtract
[14:07] $1000 from your assessed
[14:08] value, giving you
[14:09] $10,000
[14:11] in this example.
[14:12] And so your EMS
[14:14] district tax is going to be
[14:15] applied to whatever your
[14:16] net taxable assessed
[14:18] value is. And so then you
[14:19] would apply that 0.003
[14:21] calculation.
[14:23] And for a $100,000 fair
[14:25] market value house, you would have a
[14:26] $33 tax if
[14:28] you did not have the 
[14:29] exemption or $30
[14:31] if you did. So, it
[14:32] just gives you an example of how much that
[14:34] actually comes out to
[14:35] be. There is a
[14:36] caveat to
[14:38] DAV exemptions. Somebody
[14:39] asked me this in
[14:41] the past.
[14:42] Situation and so I want
[14:44] to just point it out.
[14:45] sometimes you have 100% disabled
[14:47] veterans in your counties,
[14:49] they don't pay any property tax,
[14:50] they're fully exempt.
[14:51] However, they would still
[14:53] need to pay the EMS
[14:54] district tax or if there's any
[14:56] other special district tax, they're still
[14:58] responsible for that,
[14:59] just for your
[15:00] information.
[15:03] OK, so now getting into some
[15:04] data. This is
[15:06] a map of Oklahoma.
[15:08] let's make sure I brought my
[15:08] counties.
[15:10] it is. I'm pretty sure
[15:11] I did actually print out the counties so in
[15:13] case somebody asked me what they are, I
[15:14] can figure it out.
[15:16] Um, so in this map
[15:17] it shows
[15:20] The EMS districts
[15:21] that cover that county.
[15:23] So like I said before, not
[15:24] all EMS districts
[15:26] are the extent of the county
[15:27] boundary lines,
[15:29] but this map
[15:30] shows,
[15:32] If a county has one
[15:33] EMS district, it's going to be
[15:34] in that lightest orange.
[15:36] The white is none. So there are a
[15:38] few counties that don't have an actual
[15:39] EMS district. doesn't
[15:40] mean they don't have EMS. Their
[15:42] county may fund it differently.
[15:44] This just means these counties
[15:45] actually have an EMS district
[15:47] that's been voted by the
[15:48] people. And as your
[15:50] orange gets darker.
[15:51] It means that county
[15:53] has more EMS districts
[15:54] that cover it. It doesn't
[15:56] mean those districts overlap.
[15:57] It just means that that county has
[15:59] more than one that operates
[16:00] within that county, if that makes
[16:02] >> sense. for
[16:03] transparency purposes
[16:05] here, Representative
[16:06] Debrinski represents
[16:08] Blaine and Dewey
[16:09] counties up there
[16:11] along with that's
[16:12] the black or close to
[16:14] black, uh,
[16:15] along with Kingfisher, Woodward,
[16:17] and Garfield, so.
[16:18] I, I have a little diversity
[16:20] out there among my
[16:22] folks. >> There's quite a few in
[16:23] there. >> That's, that's
[16:25] my question. How come
[16:26] your district is so dark
[16:28] because there's >> so many
[16:29] districts, >> so
[16:30] many what
[16:31] districts
[16:33] population.
[16:39] >> I've, I've got more
[16:40] of the
[16:42] sparsely populated
[16:43] counties, but I do
[16:45] have quite the number
[16:46] of E ems districts
[16:48] out there, >> even
[16:49] comparing to Oklahoma's counties.
[16:51] So I mean
[16:53] up in Tulsa. I, I
[16:54] just,
[16:56] >> so Oklahoma,
[16:57] Oklahoma
[16:58] County.
[17:00] Has
[17:01] one
[17:03] district countywide have does not have an EMS district
[17:05] at all. correct?
[17:06] >> I don't know if this has a laser at the
[17:08] end.
[17:09] >> The, the key up
[17:10] there, uh, your, your
[17:12] scale 11 through
[17:13] 5 there, it's
[17:15] a little hard to see,
[17:16] but obviously the >> lighter,
[17:18] I'm getting it, I mean
[17:20] >> the ones in white do not have any
[17:21] EMS districts and so your square
[17:23] right in the middle is Oklahoma
[17:25] County. That has nothing >> to do
[17:26] with with populations.
[17:28] That's just the number of
[17:29] districts per >> county. I
[17:31] mean, it's crazy for Pittsburgh
[17:32] County. I mean,
[17:34] especially with Highway 69 >> going
[17:35] through.
[17:39] And just a couple of numbers for
[17:40] your reference. there's 67
[17:42] total EMS districts.
[17:43] I don't have a map that shows
[17:45] what they cover.
[17:46] Um, we don't collect that at tax
[17:47] commission, so I wasn't able to provide
[17:49] that. Um, there are
[17:50] 38
[17:51] county-based E ems
[17:53] so when I look at them, they say
[17:54] likellis.
[17:55] Tulsa
[17:57] County EMS and then there's
[17:58] 20 city-based E
[18:00] ems districts, meaning the name
[18:01] indicated a city. I don't know
[18:03] if that's the boundary or not, but that's
[18:04] just, it was a city-based
[18:06] EMS district and
[18:08] then 11 of the districts
[18:09] as a whole cover more than
[18:11] one county.
[18:13] So
[18:16] >> Can you yes Can
[18:18] you define
[18:20] the district? I mean,
[18:21] you've got Adair County as
[18:22] having no
[18:23] district, but the
[18:25] commissioners have set up we
[18:27] do have an ambulance service in
[18:28] Adair County that
[18:29] we've had for the last
[18:31] 4 or 5 years.
[18:33] >> It may be funded by your
[18:34] county, not an EMS
[18:36] district specifically.
[18:38] >> Yes, OK, OK, yes, it is
[18:39] funded by the county and Cherokee Nation.
[18:41] >> Thank you and that could be why. same with Oklahoma
[18:42] County. they have EMS
[18:44] and ambulance services.
[18:45] It's just not funded through
[18:47] this mechanism.
[18:49] >> And with, with your designations,
[18:51] they're saying there are 38
[18:53] county
[18:54] districts.
[18:55] By by title >> by
[18:57] title >> you will
[18:58] you will see, you will see Blaine,
[19:00] you will see Blaine County
[19:01] EMS and then there's
[19:03] Okeen
[19:04] Canton and
[19:05] Gary
[19:06] so.
[19:09] If, if, if a,
[19:10] if the title says it's a county,
[19:12] you would assume
[19:13] that it's covering the county, but that's
[19:15] not always the >> case. I would assume
[19:17] so, but I don't have like the,
[19:18] the boundary map or
[19:20] anything for that. I'm just showing by
[19:21] county which ones
[19:23] have that certain number of EMS
[19:24] districts.
[19:28] Here are some numbers of
[19:30] total collections over the
[19:31] entire state and this
[19:32] is estimated information. I
[19:34] will caveat with that. So whenever
[19:36] Oklahoma Tax Commission
[19:37] collects the
[19:39] information from the counties, it is
[19:40] prior to the actual
[19:42] tax collections I learned
[19:44] this, um, and so
[19:45] these are just estimated what
[19:46] they think. they will collect,
[19:48] it is not actual
[19:49] collections. To get that we would have to
[19:51] talk to each different county to figure that
[19:52] out. So just want to caveat
[19:54] that it could vary
[19:56] a little bit if you went to
[19:57] each county and found out their
[19:59] information, but these are general
[20:01] estimated tax collections over
[20:02] the past 5 years.
[20:04] Um, just want to show it's been
[20:05] increasing.
[20:08] So in case you're interested, went
[20:09] from about 27.3
[20:11] million in 2020
[20:13] for the entire state up to
[20:14] about
[20:14] 37.2.
[20:17] And that is over the past 5
[20:19] years.
[20:20] Whereas this map, so
[20:22] this is a map
[20:23] to show
[20:25] the actual levee,
[20:27] so what mills is
[20:28] located in each
[20:29] county. Um,
[20:31] like I said, each district may
[20:32] cover more than one, but this
[20:34] is the average mills
[20:36] levied in each county
[20:37] over the past two years. this
[20:39] is 25 and
[20:40] 26.
[20:42] And so you can see the
[20:43] ones in white, again, don't
[20:45] have an E ems district.
[20:46] And then as your greens get
[20:48] darker, the mill
[20:49] levy gets higher. And
[20:51] so the ones that are in the lightest
[20:52] green have under 3
[20:54] mills. So they probably only
[20:55] have that operating
[20:56] fund,
[20:57] um,
[20:59] The first vote you can have where
[21:01] it's up to 3. So
[21:02] for whatever reason, they didn't put it
[21:04] all the way to 3. And
[21:05] then there's in the next, it's
[21:07] 3 to 3.1,
[21:09] and then the next darkest green is
[21:10] 3.26
[21:12] to 3.35,
[21:14] and then the very darkest green
[21:15] is over 3.5
[21:16] mils.
[21:18] So it gives you an idea of where
[21:20] the levies are the highest,
[21:21] which is interesting when you compare
[21:23] it to our my next
[21:24] map
[21:26] is the actual collections per
[21:27] county and you can
[21:29] see the darkest colors of
[21:30] each do not
[21:31] coincide.
[21:33] So your highest levies
[21:34] don't actually collect the
[21:35] most
[21:36] tax, and that could
[21:38] be for a variety of reasons.
[21:40] One of them might be your valuations
[21:41] are higher in certain counties.
[21:43] I'm just looking at southeast Oklahoma,
[21:45] you've got all the broken
[21:46] bow cabins, higher
[21:48] valuation, so their
[21:49] tax is going to be a little bit higher that
[21:51] could contribute.
[21:52] So, this map
[21:54] shows over the past 5
[21:55] years, the average
[21:57] collections by county.
[21:59] Again, it's not by EMS
[22:00] district, this is by
[22:01] county.
[22:04] And there's 2 counties
[22:06] that have asterisks.
[22:07] Let me see, Grant
[22:08] County
[22:10] and
[22:12] You think I know this, Lincoln
[22:13] County, and that's only for
[22:15] 2025 because they
[22:16] were most recently put in in
[22:17] 2025.
[22:19] So those two is just
[22:21] based on 2025
[22:22] data.
[22:25] >> Got a question here
[22:27] This is a lot of good
[22:28] information. Can you email
[22:30] that to us?
[22:32] if you would, I'd really appreciate it because I'd
[22:33] like to get it back to to our
[22:35] county. thank
[22:36] you.
[22:39] >> And the last slide I have
[22:41] kind of going back to what you were
[22:42] talking about, um, with
[22:44] the sales tax. So there
[22:45] are 2 additional
[22:47] funding for
[22:48] 520 or 4
[22:50] EMS districts that I was
[22:51] able to find. Um, one
[22:53] is in Title 63,
[22:55] and it's a revolving fund
[22:57] that gets apportionment from
[22:58] tobacco tax.
[23:00] Um, so I looked at the
[23:01] numbers and it gets approximately
[23:02] $1.5 million
[23:04] annually, and I tried to
[23:05] do a little research into how that
[23:07] is disbursed and it looks
[23:08] like the commissioner
[23:10] of health takes
[23:11] applications for that and
[23:13] then divvies it out.
[23:14] However, I don't know how they do it, but that
[23:15] is an, um, another
[23:17] funding source.
[23:19] Yes.
[23:20] OK. Um,
[23:22] and then there's also a
[23:23] sales tax option
[23:24] in Title 68
[23:26] where a county can vote to levy
[23:27] a sales tax not to
[23:29] equal, not to exceed
[23:30] 1% on the gross
[23:31] proceeds, um, that would
[23:33] be used solely for funding
[23:34] EMS.
[23:36] So
[23:38] Those are two additional funding
[23:39] options I wanted to point
[23:40] out.
[23:42] And that is all I have for
[23:43] my presentation.
[23:46] If anyone has any questions,
[23:47] happy to take them, or I can stick
[23:49] around if anything comes
[23:50] up. >> Thank
[23:52] you very much for that
[23:53] presentation. And again, if you would
[23:55] email those to to my office,
[23:56] I will make sure everyone gets
[23:58] them, and I appreciate your
[23:59] working. Uh,
[24:01] with Carla to
[24:02] prepare for this morning, I
[24:04] would just, Mr. Chairman,
[24:05] mention to folks
[24:07] who may be watching
[24:08] this online, particularly
[24:09] our colleagues that,
[24:11] uh, Representatives Kelly
[24:13] and Harden and Dempsey,
[24:15] uh, and
[24:16] Jason, good morning,
[24:18] uh, are, are here if
[24:19] you guys want to
[24:21] text us any
[24:22] questions, uh, we'll be glad
[24:23] to ask them as we go
[24:25] along. So thank
[24:26] you.
[24:29] Shoul we continue, Mr.
[24:30] Chairman?
[24:32] Yes, uh,
[24:33] our next speakers
[24:35] I'm going to have,
[24:36] uh,
[24:38] introduced by
[24:39] Bobby Stem who
[24:41] has helped me prepare for
[24:42] this and, uh, lined
[24:44] up our next couple
[24:45] of speakers today.
[24:47] Again this morning, Bobby
[24:49] is representing the
[24:50] Oklahoma
[24:51] nonprofit EMS
[24:53] system. So Bobby, if you
[24:54] will, thank you for being
[24:55] >> here. Thank you, Mr.
[24:57] Chairman and and
[24:58] representative members of the committee.
[25:00] Uh, my name is Bobby Stem. I
[25:01] represent one Oklahoma's
[25:03] nonprofit EMS.
[25:05] Um, we're list
[25:06] wonderful presentation, by the
[25:07] way, ma'am. super
[25:09] educational, uh, but
[25:10] I do hope too
[25:12] that we, that the
[25:13] numbers aren't
[25:15] what we really leave here with
[25:16] today. It's about
[25:17] lives and quality of
[25:19] lives that I
[25:20] really want to focus
[25:21] on.
[25:23] Now this challenges the
[25:24] funding, but the
[25:25] real issue is how do we take care
[25:27] of our rural Oklahomans
[25:28] in their most critical time
[25:30] of need. This really
[25:31] hit home a few years ago when my
[25:33] mother, who had lived in Creek County in
[25:34] a rural area of Creek
[25:36] County, saved all her life
[25:37] as a school teacher and had 5
[25:38] acres that she really
[25:40] enjoyed taking care of.
[25:42] She got a goat later in life. That was kind of
[25:44] weird to me, but, um,
[25:45] she loved it out there and
[25:47] her neighbour passed from
[25:48] a heart attack and
[25:50] couldn't get, couldn't get somebody there
[25:51] in time. My mom
[25:53] struggled with that for some time and
[25:54] has since moved to Broken Arrow where
[25:56] she can be closer to
[25:57] facilities and I hate that for
[25:58] her. I hate that for that
[26:00] goat because they get along pretty well.
[26:01] Um, and then I
[26:03] started working on
[26:04] this issue and it really kind of hit
[26:06] home with me and as I've
[26:07] continued to learn more about it.
[26:09] So today I'm hoping that
[26:11] Brandy and Brian will talk to you
[26:12] kind of about their service
[26:14] and really what it is we can do
[26:15] as a whole for our
[26:17] emergency services around the state
[26:18] so that they can
[26:19] provide.
[26:21] rural citizens with
[26:23] the help they need at the
[26:24] very scariest time of their life.
[26:26] So thank you for having
[26:27] us. Thank you for allowing me
[26:29] that personal narratives,
[26:30] that personal narrative. And with that,
[26:32] I'd like to, if I could go ahead
[26:33] and introduce Brandy and
[26:35] Brian. if they would go ahead and you
[26:36] guys can come on up here, they'll talk.
[26:38] Brandy we'll talk about
[26:39] Ugalala. Brian will talk
[26:40] about Durant. I'll, I'll
[26:42] let them introduce themselves and tell you their
[26:44] story and thank you very much,
[26:45] Mr. Chairman and Representativebrinski
[26:47] members.
[26:56] >> Good morning. My name is Brandy
[26:58] Pond. I am the
[26:59] executive director for
[27:00] Uligalaa EMS.
[27:02] We're up in the Rock part of
[27:03] Rock we cover the
[27:05] Ulugalaa School District
[27:06] in Rogers County.
[27:08] Um thank you for having
[27:10] us. We appreciate
[27:11] you.
[27:12] Hearing what we have to say.
[27:14] Um, I really just wanted
[27:16] to share more
[27:17] just from the heart, kind of what
[27:19] we do daily.
[27:20] Um, you know, numbers
[27:22] are important, but really like
[27:23] Bobby said, it's definitely
[27:24] about, you know, making
[27:26] sure that the citizens of
[27:27] our community get an ambulance
[27:29] in the time of need when they pick
[27:31] up the phone to
[27:31] call.
[27:33] Um, as you heard,
[27:34] you know, ambulance districts are
[27:36] funded, but
[27:37] really wanted to talk about what those
[27:39] numbers look like, like on the
[27:40] ground level of a one rural
[27:42] ambulance service, which I'll talk
[27:43] specifically about
[27:44] Ulagatawala.
[27:46] Um, we are a
[27:47] 522 district. We do
[27:48] cover a school district, uh,
[27:50] in part of Rogers County.
[27:52] We cover around about
[27:53] 180 square
[27:54] miles.
[27:55] Um, and
[27:57] we run 2 24 hour trucks,
[27:58] so they run 24/7,
[28:00] 365 days a
[28:01] year. Um,
[28:03] we, in 2025,
[28:04] we averaged about 1800
[28:06] calls, um, which
[28:08] you can see and I'll, you can
[28:09] reference this sheet that
[28:11] we have that kind of just talks
[28:12] about, um, different
[28:14] numbers throughout from
[28:15] 2020 to 2025,
[28:17] kind of looking at five-year
[28:18] difference. So you can see
[28:20] our call volume in
[28:21] 2020 was 728
[28:23] calls and last
[28:25] year we were up to 1,879
[28:27] calls, which a lot of that
[28:28] is due to You
[28:30] know, in Rogers County, we're seeing a
[28:31] huge growth um
[28:33] in population because
[28:34] everyone's moving out of Tulsa, out
[28:36] of Owasso, and now
[28:37] up into Rogers
[28:38] County.
[28:40] Um,
[28:42] But, you know, like I said, when someone
[28:43] calls 911, they're not thinking
[28:45] about the millage rates
[28:46] or what it costs to
[28:47] reimburse from, you
[28:49] know, insurance. They
[28:50] simply want to know that an ambulance
[28:52] is going to come.
[28:53] So, you can kind of see as you
[28:55] look at this handout that the funding
[28:57] has not kept pace,
[28:58] um, even though it has
[29:00] increased, um, for
[29:01] us in 2020,
[29:03] our funding from the
[29:04] avalorum tax was
[29:05] $394,000
[29:08] and in 2025, it's
[29:09] 469.
[29:11] Um, that's a 19%
[29:13] increase over five
[29:14] years. Um,
[29:15] our operations to run
[29:17] the operation in 2020
[29:18] was $1.4 million.
[29:20] And in 2025,
[29:22] it was 2.2.
[29:23] This year, our
[29:24] need will be about 2.5
[29:26] million. Um,
[29:27] so that's about a 57%
[29:29] increase over the five
[29:30] years. And
[29:32] again, looking at the call volume in the
[29:33] last 5 years, it's increased over
[29:35] 158%.
[29:37] So the whole point is even though the
[29:38] revenue did rise,
[29:40] it's nowhere near the growth in
[29:41] the demand for
[29:42] the cost of operating
[29:44] the service.
[29:46] Um, looking a little bit more
[29:47] about what it costs to run an ambulance
[29:49] service and, and this is just
[29:51] a very high level,
[29:52] just something that,
[29:54] you know, everybody can see and know
[29:55] what it is like looking in an ambulance,
[29:57] what it cost 5 years
[29:58] ago to today.
[30:00] Um, you know,
[30:01] $175,000
[30:03] and that's probably not even fully
[30:04] stocked. That's just a
[30:05] simple box,
[30:07] you know, with wheels
[30:09] that will drive
[30:10] to today, I mean, it's
[30:11] $325,000
[30:13] to put an ambulance on the road.
[30:15] Um, looking at
[30:16] pay for a paramedic
[30:18] average across the
[30:20] state and even for us
[30:21] in 2020, we were paying
[30:23] $17 an hour,
[30:24] but to keep up with
[30:26] getting staff, um,
[30:27] we have to pay about $26
[30:29] an hour to keep
[30:30] staff, um,
[30:32] qualified staff
[30:34] because we also compete with
[30:35] larger services that,
[30:37] that neighbour us. So
[30:38] to not lose them and be able to
[30:40] have trucks on the road,
[30:41] um, Because if we
[30:43] have to put a truck down, then we're one
[30:44] truck in the district for 180
[30:46] square miles. So
[30:47] 911 call goes
[30:48] out, um, we kind of
[30:50] showed on the back what this looks
[30:51] like. Just a simple
[30:53] graphic. if we're on
[30:54] one end of the district
[30:56] and we have to drive to the north
[30:57] end of our district, that could be 30
[30:59] minutes if we only have
[31:00] one truck because someone
[31:02] called out sick and I can't backfill
[31:04] it or, you
[31:05] know, I don't have enough
[31:06] staff to staff a truck that
[31:08] day. Um,
[31:09] or if we're coming back from,
[31:11] you know, there's situations
[31:12] where both trucks could be on 911
[31:14] calls. there's no one in the
[31:15] district, so they have to call
[31:17] mutual aid from Collinsville
[31:18] or or
[31:19] Claremore,
[31:20] again, increasing those wait
[31:22] times. So
[31:23] as cost increase,
[31:25] as population
[31:26] increases, we're
[31:27] not able to staff enough
[31:29] trucks. I, I can't afford to
[31:30] put up a third truck.
[31:32] In my district.
[31:33] Um, so
[31:35] again, just easy cost to see,
[31:36] but the harder cost to explain is
[31:37] really the cost of being ready
[31:39] and that's the thing that EMS is
[31:41] really missing is
[31:42] the cost of readiness.
[31:44] Um, you know, before the call
[31:46] comes in, ambulance is
[31:47] purchased, the crew is
[31:48] staffed,
[31:50] medications are stocked, equipment's working,
[31:51] there's training, there's current
[31:53] licenser
[31:54] and But we can't
[31:56] wait until someone calls
[31:57] 911 to hire a
[31:58] paramedic to buy an
[31:59] ambulance to stop the truck. Those
[32:01] all have to be done
[32:02] to wait for that call.
[32:04] So, and we don't know when that calls
[32:06] coming in or where it's coming from,
[32:07] but our citizens expect
[32:09] us to be ready when it
[32:10] does.
[32:11] Um.
[32:13] Readiness costs money every hour
[32:15] of every day whether the ambulance
[32:16] wheels turn or not.
[32:17] And there's a lot of examples
[32:19] probably we could reference during
[32:20] COVID and how that,
[32:22] you know, truly was
[32:23] the the case.
[32:25] Um, RS competes
[32:26] for qualified paramedics with larger
[32:28] services and healthcare
[32:29] employers. Pay has
[32:30] risen because the workforce
[32:32] has to be sustainable
[32:33] and even then experienced providers
[32:35] are difficult to recruit
[32:37] and retain. Even if we
[32:38] get them, a lot of times they'll leave the
[32:40] business for An
[32:41] extra $1 they'll go into
[32:43] healthcare, they leave the discipline
[32:44] altogether. Um,
[32:46] so that is something else we're battling
[32:47] as well is, is not just
[32:49] funding but recruitment and
[32:50] retention because at
[32:51] the end of the day, you know, the ambulance
[32:53] sitting in the station is not the
[32:54] EMS system, it's really the
[32:56] people inside of it.
[32:58] Um, talking a little bit,
[32:59] um, again about employees,
[33:01] you know, we asked them if
[33:03] you all know EMS people.
[33:04] I mean, they work
[33:06] nights, holidays, weekends,
[33:08] storms, disasters.
[33:09] I mean, and they see a lot of really
[33:10] tough things.
[33:12] Um, but
[33:13] at the end of the day, they have to
[33:15] be able to pay their bills too.
[33:17] And, you know, they
[33:18] can love EMS but they still have
[33:20] to pay their mortgage and support
[33:21] their family.
[33:23] Uh, another thing, just kind of
[33:25] talking a little about response time,
[33:26] which you can see again, I addressed
[33:28] briefly,
[33:29] um,
[33:31] this is
[33:32] where the numbers really reach the
[33:34] patient.
[33:35] Um, real distance
[33:36] can't be eliminated.
[33:38] Staffing in available units
[33:39] determine where the responding
[33:40] ambulance starts.
[33:42] So, like I said, when I can't staff
[33:44] a truck, it's not just an HR
[33:45] problem. It really means
[33:47] an ambulance has to come from
[33:48] somewhere because when that call goes
[33:50] out, a truck has to,
[33:51] I mean, the person expects that truck
[33:53] to show
[33:53] up.
[33:56] So staffing shortage becomes
[33:57] a response time problem
[33:59] and a response
[34:00] time problem becomes a patient
[34:02] problem. So
[34:03] really in closing, um
[34:05] three things I just want to leave with
[34:07] you is the funding
[34:08] really has not kept pace over
[34:10] time even from the 70s,
[34:11] you know, and even the last five
[34:13] years, I think it's easy to see
[34:14] that's the case.
[34:16] Um cost and demand have have
[34:17] risen dramatically and
[34:19] there's continuing widening
[34:20] gap through
[34:22] um that reaches the
[34:23] citizen for help.
[34:25] So when someone in rural Oklahoma
[34:26] calls 911, they should not have
[34:28] to understand how EMS is
[34:29] funded. They just
[34:31] expect someone to answer.
[34:32] So our responsibility
[34:34] is to be ready before that call
[34:35] comes and the question
[34:37] before us is how we sustainably
[34:39] fund that readiness in rural
[34:40] Oklahoma. Thank
[34:41] you.
[34:43] >> Yes.
[34:45] Thank you, Brandy. And
[34:47] you, in your
[34:48] presentation here, you, you have
[34:50] the numbers for 25, but
[34:51] you said this year,
[34:52] you expect that your
[34:54] costs will be around
[34:55] 2.5
[34:56] million.
[35:00] >> Yes, uh, our estimate of
[35:01] needs that we just received from the
[35:03] county, they said was
[35:04] 2.5 million. I
[35:05] don't have the number yet
[35:07] for what the avalorium is
[35:08] gonna come. I, they're
[35:10] telling me it's going to be around
[35:11] 5. or I'm
[35:12] sorry, I think it was like
[35:13] 510, but I'm
[35:15] actually waiting on the final
[35:16] number. >> So tell
[35:17] me
[35:18] how you
[35:19] have
[35:21] covered that gap either
[35:22] locally or countywide.
[35:24] How are you addressing the
[35:26] Approximate $2
[35:27] million shortfall
[35:28] there. >> So for
[35:30] our specific 522
[35:31] district when they were set
[35:33] up in 2020,
[35:35] um, the citizens
[35:36] voted it in. They did a 3
[35:38] we were capped at, you know, we're capped at
[35:39] 3 mills. We do get the 3
[35:41] mills. at that time
[35:42] they did not vote in,
[35:44] uh, the extra
[35:46] 3 millions for the
[35:47] capital expense.
[35:49] Uh, I believe it was 2017
[35:51] they went, they did go for a
[35:52] bond. Um, so
[35:54] we do have another one
[35:55] mil for the bond because they
[35:57] they specifically did that
[35:58] to buy new ambulances.
[36:00] Um, so really
[36:02] the way that gap is filled is
[36:03] through doing in facility
[36:04] transfers and billing
[36:06] revenue.
[36:09] >> OK, so even,
[36:11] even if you
[36:13] convince your
[36:15] voters.
[36:16] To go up to the full 6
[36:18] mil, it's
[36:19] not any way
[36:21] that you're self-sustaining there, is
[36:22] >> there? correct? And I think you
[36:24] would see that across the state. It's
[36:25] not just us. I mean, this is just
[36:27] our example. I mean, Brian can talk
[36:28] about how that works for them.
[36:30] He's a much larger service,
[36:32] but it's, it's still
[36:33] the same, right? The gap is
[36:35] still the same. So
[36:36] for us we don't have a
[36:38] hospital or a long term care
[36:39] facility in our district
[36:41] so we have to go outside of the
[36:43] district to run those
[36:44] calls and that
[36:45] takes us away from our
[36:46] citizens. So a
[36:48] 911911
[36:49] call comes out we may not be
[36:51] there. >> So,
[36:52] so you do not have
[36:54] a hos
[36:55] hospital within your
[36:56] district >> in the school district,
[36:58] >> correct. So if you're doing
[36:59] transfers, they're all
[37:01] out of district,
[37:02] >> correct.
[37:05] But basically, I mean, we
[37:06] could not sustain
[37:08] the service on
[37:09] the 3 mills
[37:10] and 911 calls
[37:12] alone.
[37:16] Question.
[37:18] >> I feel for you because we're in the
[37:19] same boat.
[37:21] our hospital is shut down, but
[37:23] we do have the emergency room
[37:24] open and
[37:26] we we have 3 ambulances.
[37:28] one we try to put the north end of the
[37:29] county, one south end of the
[37:31] county, but there's
[37:32] times with the transfers
[37:34] we have no ambulances.
[37:35] What are you, you calling
[37:37] somebody? You obviously you're
[37:38] calling somebody from somewhere else, is
[37:40] that
[37:40] correct?
[37:43] >> Yes, thank you for the question.
[37:44] Um, basically
[37:46] the hospitals call out because
[37:47] what they want is
[37:49] the quickest ambulance to get there and move
[37:50] the patient out. So they're going
[37:52] to call around to any service they
[37:53] can get to come pick up the
[37:55] patient.
[37:56] So we just juggle that. I mean,
[37:58] we really try to leave a truck in our
[37:59] district as much as we can so
[38:01] that they're not left
[38:01] uncovered.
[38:03] Um, so we constantly
[38:04] are juggling
[38:06] that process of just
[38:08] do we have a truck in? when's the next
[38:09] one going to be back.
[38:11] Um, so it's a
[38:12] daily 24
[38:13] hour
[38:15] process to try to make sure the district's
[38:16] covered, but yet we're still
[38:18] doing enough to bring in some
[38:19] funding to build
[38:20] this gap.
[38:22] >> How often is it that your
[38:24] district is caught without an
[38:25] ambulance?
[38:27] >> I
[38:27] mean,
[38:30] Gosh.
[38:31] I mean, I would say that's starting
[38:33] to increase. Um,
[38:35] but like if we have a we only
[38:36] have one truck a day because we
[38:38] can't staff it we don't do
[38:39] transfers, right? because we
[38:41] don't want to take that truck out of
[38:42] district.
[38:43] um
[38:44] So >> We
[38:46] run 5 trucks a day,
[38:47] 24 hours a day, and we run
[38:49] out of trucks every >> day.
[38:50] OK, well that's what I was
[38:52] coming out with ours. There,
[38:53] there's not a day goes by that at
[38:54] some point in time
[38:56] we don't have an ambulance. Yeah,
[38:58] >> I would say there's probably
[38:59] a few times through the day, >> and one
[39:01] of our issues is not
[39:02] necessarily transfers, like just
[39:04] 911 calls and
[39:05] then. we're
[39:06] surrounded by
[39:08] counties that are a lot smaller
[39:09] than us. I'm in Bryan
[39:11] County and
[39:12] so we find ourselves in other
[39:13] counties because we have 5
[39:15] trucks and they have 1
[39:16] truck. So we
[39:17] find ourselves in those counties
[39:19] quite often.
[39:21] Because of this shortfall,
[39:22] because they're doing the same things,
[39:24] >> do you, do you get
[39:26] any funding from those
[39:27] other areas when
[39:29] you're going into, to,
[39:30] uh, pick up the just
[39:32] >> whatever we might get out of
[39:33] billing.
[39:34] Uh thank
[39:35] you.
[39:38] >> Alright,
[39:40] randy got your
[39:42] Mr. Norton.
[39:44] Brian. >> OK.
[39:45] Um, my name is Brian Norton.
[39:47] I am the chief of EMS
[39:48] for Bryan County,
[39:50] Oklahoma. Um, to
[39:51] kind of give you a
[39:53] background of me,
[39:54] um,
[39:56] I'm also the fire
[39:57] chief for the town of Calera.
[39:59] Um, so I kind of understand the
[40:00] fireside and the fundings and
[40:02] things. And then
[40:03] I was also the mayor of Calera for
[40:05] a short term and I've served 16
[40:07] years on the city council for
[40:08] Calera. So I
[40:10] kinda understand where the
[40:11] city and I've been at Bryan County Ms
[40:13] 29 years. So
[40:14] county, city funding,
[40:16] I understand where a lot of this is
[40:17] coming out of.
[40:19] And I'm,
[40:20] I can reiterate a lot of the stuff that
[40:22] Brandy said, but I'll kind
[40:23] of, I'll get a little bit
[40:25] more into the weeds
[40:26] and dirt with
[40:27] this. Um,
[40:29] Bryan County,
[40:30] we cover 990 square
[40:32] miles. We cover
[40:34] it with 5
[40:34] ambulances.
[40:36] Same ratio, we run over 8000
[40:38] calls a year.
[40:40] Um, that's what we're on
[40:41] average. we're, we're on average
[40:43] right now to hit
[40:44] about, um,
[40:46] for 2026 we're around
[40:47] 8100 calls is what
[40:49] our average is hitting
[40:50] us.
[40:52] In that same time
[40:54] frame.
[40:55] There's 17 fire
[40:57] departments. One paid 16
[40:58] volunteer fire departments in
[41:00] in Bryan County.
[41:01] There's over 140
[41:03] fire trucks to cover 900
[41:05] square miles
[41:06] in Bryan County.
[41:08] For less than 1500
[41:10] runs a year that are fire
[41:11] calls.
[41:13] Fully supported by
[41:14] taxpayer money, either city
[41:15] or county, 100%
[41:17] sales tax
[41:18] generated.
[41:20] I mean, we
[41:21] have
[41:23] I mean, I'll take Calera.
[41:24] I've got a $1.2
[41:26] million dollar fire truck
[41:28] for the town of Calera for 200
[41:29] calls a
[41:29] year.
[41:32] Um, EMS,
[41:34] I'm about to spend
[41:34] $325,000
[41:36] this month on a new
[41:37] ambulance. I'll
[41:39] spend another $300,000
[41:40] to stock that truck,
[41:42] and I've got to make it figure
[41:44] out how to come out of my budget
[41:45] of roughly about
[41:47] $3.8 million that
[41:48] I'll have,
[41:50] um.
[41:51] through taxes and, and,
[41:53] and billing to come up
[41:54] with plus
[41:56] Staff my trucks, plus
[41:58] keep them all running, plus keep the
[41:59] maintenance going
[42:01] and, and so on. So
[42:02] there, there's a, there's a big
[42:03] disparity
[42:04] between
[42:06] E ems and how we
[42:08] are funded. We,
[42:09] we
[42:10] Everybody wants an ambulance, but
[42:11] nobody wants to pay for it. That's kind of the
[42:13] way we feel about it.
[42:15] Um, if you
[42:16] use a kind of a
[42:17] nationwide rule of thumb
[42:19] with 8000 calls, you should
[42:21] have 1 truck per 1000.
[42:22] So we should be running 8 trucks in
[42:24] Bryan County.
[42:25] Um, on average,
[42:27] and we run 5.
[42:29] So that's where we get
[42:30] every day we run out of trucks,
[42:32] where every day we,
[42:34] we stack them, um,
[42:35] just kind of like what Bobby was talking
[42:37] about, um,
[42:39] We push off a lot of
[42:41] discharges from our hospital
[42:42] for a while to run
[42:44] 911 calls and
[42:45] then when we free a truck
[42:46] up, we go back and forth.
[42:48] And then there's times
[42:50] where the patients might
[42:51] have to wait. people have to wait
[42:53] for ambulances and that's
[42:54] not indicative. that's
[42:55] not just Bryan County.
[42:57] that's, I'm
[42:58] gonna say it's probably going to be in 77
[43:00] counties in Oklahoma.
[43:02] At some point or another, you're going to
[43:03] have to wait for an
[43:04] ambulance.
[43:06] So
[43:12] Our,
[43:14] our ad valorum, I was gonna kind of
[43:15] touch a little bit on the ad
[43:16] valorum too. And I wanted to
[43:18] put some clarity a little
[43:19] bit. When,
[43:21] um, they presented about
[43:22] 6 mills,
[43:24] we only get 3 mils
[43:26] of property
[43:27] tax. We can do a 3
[43:29] mil bond. The sinking
[43:30] fund is a bond
[43:31] issue and it
[43:33] is, so it's not
[43:34] a permanent tax.
[43:36] you bond it for a certain
[43:37] capital. And it
[43:39] goes away. Like I
[43:40] currently do have a bond
[43:42] issue, um,
[43:44] that, that built a
[43:45] new station in
[43:46] to house us because we were, we
[43:48] actually had all of our trucks outside
[43:49] and we had to build a
[43:51] new station to house our
[43:52] trucks.
[43:53] Um, and then that 3
[43:55] mills, the first year it was like
[43:56] 2.1 mils and it's just
[43:57] gradually gone down and it'll actually
[43:59] go away in 10 years.
[44:01] In order to get it again, I'll have to
[44:02] go back out to the vote of the
[44:03] people to, to
[44:05] get that, um,
[44:07] to, to get
[44:08] that. Extra
[44:09] 3 meals
[44:10] possibly.
[44:12] Um,
[44:13] the sales
[44:15] tax on the,
[44:16] the, the
[44:18] Title 68 sales tax,
[44:19] that was just
[44:21] passed two
[44:22] years ago, um, through
[44:24] the house and the Senate
[44:25] here. Um,
[44:27] so far there's only one
[44:28] ambulance service in the state that
[44:30] has that. that's Muskogee
[44:31] County. Um, and
[44:33] I think they're only at like
[44:34] $0.3
[44:35] of that one cent meal. They
[44:37] are 1cent of
[44:38] that.
[44:43] So, so funding
[44:44] just hasn't, you know,
[44:45] when
[44:47] Currently, the current atmosphere in
[44:49] the, in the political geoscape
[44:50] of stuff right
[44:52] now is to cut taxes.
[44:54] And
[44:55] Then here comes EMS turns
[44:57] around and says, hey, can you raise your
[44:58] taxes?
[44:59] And everywhere we're
[45:01] going for that, it's, it's getting
[45:02] voted no,
[45:04] because we're getting a huge
[45:06] outcry
[45:07] from
[45:08] People that just want to cut taxes. They don't
[45:10] want taxes, they don't want taxes.
[45:12] Um, in Bryan County, we try
[45:13] to run it and
[45:14] because some, uh,
[45:16] uh, mismanagement
[45:18] of a local city,
[45:20] It got voted no. All those
[45:21] people came out and voted us no,
[45:23] and then they turn around and they,
[45:25] our call volume increases,
[45:27] you know, and so, and, and
[45:28] then we get Facebook
[45:30] posts and everything else about, hey,
[45:31] I waited 1520 minutes for
[45:33] an ambulance.
[45:34] So, you know, it's,
[45:36] it's, it's a catch-22 that
[45:37] we're in, in the in the political
[45:39] environment that we're in right now. Everybody
[45:40] wants to cut the taxes, but the only way
[45:42] to save EMS right now is
[45:43] to, Raise
[45:45] taxes and
[45:46] nobody wants to do
[45:47] it.
[45:50] >> Uh, thank you. I mean,
[45:52] and what y'all
[45:53] don't know Bobby, or I mean
[45:55] not Bobby but Bobby
[45:56] too, but Brian and I, we've been
[45:58] working together ever
[45:59] since 2013
[46:01] and, uh,
[46:02] become really good friends
[46:04] and
[46:05] uh see he's
[46:06] up here a lot,
[46:08] but
[46:09] we've had these conversations
[46:10] time and time again
[46:12] and some of the things
[46:13] like I said. You talk
[46:15] about the time to one
[46:17] of the biggest reasons
[46:18] that we're
[46:19] having such
[46:21] many calls in our
[46:23] part of the world is tourism
[46:24] because we have so many
[46:26] people in 3 industry in the
[46:27] state, and
[46:30] Choctaw County is a prime
[46:31] example. Uh,
[46:33] we had an idiot one time
[46:34] steal an ambulance
[46:36] while he was on call.
[46:38] I mean, just different battles and
[46:39] that person
[46:41] died because the
[46:42] ambulance.
[46:44] He drove the ambulance down the road and
[46:45] just for joy ride light
[46:47] flash and everything else. I mean, you
[46:48] just just in
[46:50] our in
[46:52] It just goes on and on
[46:53] and We,
[46:55] uh,
[46:56] the hospital, I
[46:58] mean you brought up your hospital.
[46:59] I mean we're losing our
[47:00] rural hospitals.
[47:01] So,
[47:03] uh, in my district in
[47:04] the north part of it on
[47:06] highway 259 is closer
[47:07] to go to Arkansas.
[47:09] And I mean
[47:11] and a lot of times
[47:12] we if it's that
[47:14] bad we have to
[47:15] get a helicopter
[47:17] come in. I mean,
[47:18] because we're up, I mean you
[47:20] get in the middle of nowhere
[47:21] and literally you're lucky if you
[47:23] even get call
[47:24] 911
[47:26] so it's, uh,
[47:28] all these challenges that
[47:29] y'all have. I mean, I
[47:30] wanna thank y'all for always
[47:32] up here beating the bushes
[47:34] because that's how we get things
[47:35] done
[47:36] and
[47:39] said
[47:41] we're trying to keep our
[47:42] rural hospitals and
[47:44] where we can get them where we
[47:45] short term. I mean,
[47:47] um,
[47:49] Bryan County we're we're
[47:50] privileged because they have a pretty good
[47:51] one. and you got Marshall County and
[47:53] Choctaw County and
[47:55] Uh, To County, I mean, like
[47:57] I said, around there, but
[47:58] still our rural hospitals
[48:00] are disappearing where we're
[48:01] having to travel further
[48:03] and stuff. Well, >> one
[48:04] of your things too
[48:06] with your rural hospitals,
[48:07] the EMS were connected,
[48:09] you know, because there's a lot of
[48:11] people that they know if they go
[48:12] to, like, I'm, I'm
[48:13] originally from Atoka County
[48:15] and a lot of people
[48:17] from Atoka County will
[48:18] not go to atoka
[48:20] County's little hospital, which
[48:21] causes a financial problem for
[48:23] them. They will drive to
[48:24] McAllister or
[48:25] Durant
[48:27] because they know if they go to a
[48:29] tocas hospital, they're, they're
[48:30] not going to get a lot of care because it
[48:31] is rural, and then they may
[48:33] lay there for a long time waiting
[48:35] on an ambulance
[48:36] or
[48:37] If that, if atoka
[48:38] County EMS is transferring
[48:40] someone, it may be
[48:41] 6, you know, typically they go
[48:43] to Oklahoma City, so it's a 6
[48:44] to 8 hour turnaround
[48:46] to get that ambulance back.
[48:48] So a lot of people just bypass
[48:49] your rural hospital. So if you
[48:51] can strengthen
[48:52] your ambulance services,
[48:54] you'll strengthen your rural hospitals
[48:56] where we're, we work together
[48:57] all the time.
[48:59] >> Exactly. I mean,
[49:00] I mean, I can use my curtain
[49:02] cane for it. If
[49:03] we have an emergency in the north
[49:05] part of the county, it depends on
[49:06] timing. it's
[49:08] on Friday evening
[49:09] or during the weekend, God help us
[49:11] because the only way to
[49:13] the north part of our county is going through
[49:14] Hotown. And
[49:16] it's backed up
[49:17] in discussion and,
[49:19] uh, I
[49:20] mean, I had
[49:21] the privilege of working for
[49:23] US congressman, so I drove
[49:24] a lot of these roads in
[49:26] southeast Oklahoma for for over
[49:27] 8 counties and,
[49:29] and I've seen it
[49:30] firsthand and stuff
[49:32] and just
[49:32] this.
[49:35] I mean, just like you
[49:36] talked about all the volunteer
[49:38] fire departments
[49:40] and
[49:42] We got and sad to say
[49:44] some of them abuse
[49:45] our system
[49:47] they honestly do
[49:48] but and that's abused
[49:50] money could be going to our
[49:51] EMS and
[49:53] we just have to look at it certain different
[49:55] ways and
[49:57] uh
[49:59] population you talk, I mean
[50:00] we talk. Uh,
[50:02] about your population, like I
[50:03] said, on the weekends it
[50:05] grows because
[50:07] of the tourism
[50:08] and everything.
[50:10] Um, >> I get
[50:11] about Thursday
[50:12] through Sunday, I get almost
[50:13] 10,000 people
[50:15] just
[50:17] At a casino
[50:19] or spread out through a county at a
[50:20] casino,
[50:22] >> I mean once
[50:23] Yeah, and they're fill up.
[50:25] I mean, and
[50:26] they, they that
[50:28] one casino is I
[50:29] think 85%
[50:30] oxy.
[50:32] 365. >> So
[50:33] 30% of my call
[50:34] volume.
[50:37] And they pay no property
[50:38] tax.
[50:39] >> No.
[50:41] >> Yes sir. Well, you might have
[50:42] answered my question there,
[50:44] but I was, I was asking
[50:45] obviously in,
[50:47] in that situation,
[50:49] uh,
[50:50] our, our tribal
[50:51] partners.
[50:53] Engaged in
[50:54] this issue,
[50:55] uh, helping
[50:57] financially or
[50:58] providing any, any sort
[51:00] of services as
[51:01] well?
[51:03] >> My
[51:04] personal experiences
[51:06] with my
[51:07] tribal is
[51:09] if it's trusted land, they
[51:11] will not pay property tax
[51:13] towards EMS. They don't,
[51:14] they feel that that's their
[51:16] sovereign land and they're not going to pay
[51:17] it. Um,
[51:18] I've had discussions all
[51:20] the way up to the tribal
[51:22] councils, to the,
[51:23] um, council members, to the
[51:24] chief,
[51:26] and they
[51:27] just, Don't
[51:28] do it.
[51:30] >> We've got a question here.
[51:33] >> Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
[51:34] again, thank you both very much
[51:36] for being here today. a lot of
[51:37] great information.
[51:39] Um, wanna circle back to
[51:40] something. I believe you both
[51:42] mentioned transfers and
[51:43] emergency calls.
[51:45] um
[51:47] Does one call
[51:49] cost more
[51:50] than another and how do you
[51:52] determine which call
[51:53] to take?
[51:55] >> So there is a statute
[51:57] that says that if it's in
[51:58] my, this will kind of answer
[52:00] his question over here.
[52:02] If it's
[52:03] in my service
[52:04] district, I have a duty
[52:06] to act for
[52:08] emergency services.
[52:10] Um, if it's a
[52:11] transfer, I
[52:12] can take it,
[52:14] you know, here and there. If it's not an
[52:15] emergency transfer,
[52:17] um, I can arrange another
[52:18] company to come take the transfer and
[52:20] things of that nature.
[52:21] But
[52:22] um,
[52:25] Non-emergency transfers will pay
[52:27] you more. typically you do
[52:28] less.
[52:29] A 911
[52:31] call, you
[52:32] typically do more
[52:34] and get paid
[52:35] almost nothing. about Medicare
[52:37] reimburses that
[52:38] are
[52:40] Probably around 30 to
[52:42] 40% depending on where
[52:43] you're at, super rural
[52:45] rural or, you
[52:46] know. So
[52:48] we're We're
[52:49] like one of the only
[52:51] industries that we build
[52:52] something and
[52:54] then Medicare and the insurance
[52:55] companies, come back and turn around
[52:56] and say it's only worth
[52:58] this.
[52:59] So we may bill $1000
[53:01] but they may only pay us $350
[53:03] and then we have to write it
[53:04] off.
[53:06] Um, former
[53:07] Speaker, uh,
[53:08] McCall, when
[53:09] I was talking
[53:11] with him about this at one point,
[53:13] I kind of gave him our business
[53:14] plan and I asked him, I said, you're a
[53:15] banker, would you loan me money?
[53:17] He said, absolutely
[53:18] not.
[53:21] >> So
[53:25] One other thing I was gonna
[53:27] on my notes, uh, the bond
[53:29] elections. What people don't
[53:30] understand is,
[53:32] especially on y'all
[53:33] in schools and everything
[53:35] else, uh,
[53:37] try to keep the bond
[53:38] going. I mean, when it, when
[53:40] the sunset ends, you need
[53:41] to renew
[53:43] it and,
[53:44] uh,
[53:45] that's a big plus
[53:47] in
[53:48] getting.
[53:50] Rural people to understand
[53:51] that because honestly their
[53:53] taxes are not gonna go up because they're
[53:54] already paying it, but just keeping
[53:56] it going and just
[53:58] and uh that's
[53:59] a challenge we
[54:00] have in rural
[54:02] Oklahoma. I know in my
[54:03] part of the world he's got
[54:05] a school
[54:06] that it needs a
[54:07] bond and they
[54:09] will not they they're
[54:11] overflowing, but
[54:12] they they will not
[54:14] approve a bond to help
[54:16] their school. So
[54:17] and then that silo
[54:19] school so this this
[54:20] it's just one of the
[54:22] best baseball programs in the
[54:23] state, but still I went
[54:25] from I know remember when they
[54:27] were a now I think they're
[54:28] 3A. that's
[54:29] how fast they've grown in the last
[54:31] 10 years but
[54:32] still
[54:33] they can't build nothing because they can't pass
[54:35] a bond. so that's the
[54:36] challenges rule and
[54:38] these E emss
[54:39] have and I'm just using that
[54:40] for an example from
[54:42] my experience
[54:43] around.
[54:45] Mr. Norton's area like I
[54:47] said, him and I have
[54:49] worked a lot
[54:50] over the years, so it's
[54:52] on different matters, but
[54:53] still, he, uh,
[54:54] he,
[54:55] I've
[54:57] He, before
[54:58] they took
[55:00] done road construction, I
[55:01] mean, they were,
[55:03] it was even worse than
[55:04] just the
[55:05] casino.
[55:09] >> Mr. Chairman, as we
[55:11] move into
[55:12] the
[55:13] Closing remarks
[55:14] and questions
[55:16] I hope I hope
[55:18] continue because we haven't answered
[55:19] much so far but
[55:21] uh if I may ask
[55:22] Marie if you would get
[55:24] back to the table and Bobby
[55:25] if you would join us as
[55:27] well all if we
[55:28] have all of our
[55:30] presenters and folks that
[55:31] uh
[55:32] worked worked
[55:33] on this
[55:34] project.
[55:36] I have a question
[55:37] for you
[55:39] providers there.
[55:41] Given
[55:42] the
[55:47] Rate of
[55:48] return, obviously,
[55:50] uh, mentioning
[55:52] transfers and you
[55:53] don't have a hospital in your
[55:54] area.
[55:55] Uh,
[55:57] does, does having a
[55:58] healthcare facility in
[55:59] your area
[56:02] Financially help
[56:03] or hurt
[56:05] your operation.
[56:07] >> It keeps us running.
[56:08] >> It does keep you running with
[56:10] with transfers.
[56:11] Does the second
[56:13] follow up to that then I
[56:14] guess, has the,
[56:16] the growth
[56:17] of
[56:18] Airmed.
[56:21] Lighten your load
[56:23] any?
[56:25] Or does it is that
[56:26] competition?
[56:27] No,
[56:29] >> no.
[56:31] If it's critical,
[56:33] the, if it's a critical
[56:34] patient, air
[56:36] services are great to get
[56:37] them out of
[56:39] They're really great about getting them out of our
[56:41] system. Um, like,
[56:42] um, I'll just say for Durant, if I
[56:44] have a priority 1 or priority
[56:45] 2, patient,
[56:46] those are the two most extreme
[56:48] patients. The air
[56:49] services are very
[56:51] key component of
[56:53] the overall EMS
[56:54] system because they get them down
[56:55] to typically in
[56:57] our area we get them into the Dallas-Fort
[56:59] Worth area, um,
[57:00] because within
[57:02] an hour and a half of Durant,
[57:03] there's 7,
[57:05] level 1 trauma centres in the
[57:06] Dallas-Fort Worth area. There's only
[57:08] 2 in the state of Oklahoma.
[57:10] Um, so.
[57:12] Getting those people out of the
[57:13] system and getting
[57:14] them
[57:16] Into a level one facility is
[57:18] very critical for
[57:19] us and it also
[57:21] helps us because.
[57:23] Typically in the
[57:24] state, anywhere in the state of
[57:26] Oklahoma, a hospital
[57:27] will transfer to Oklahoma
[57:29] City or Tulsa.
[57:30] And so
[57:32] that costs me a lot
[57:33] more time and
[57:34] money as far
[57:36] as It, it's
[57:37] more or less, it costs me a lot of
[57:39] time because I have to send a crew out
[57:40] for 8 hours and
[57:42] that's 8 hours
[57:43] that my other
[57:44] crews have to make up the slack
[57:46] on running all the extra 911
[57:48] calls because the 911 calls don't
[57:49] stop while they're on a transfer.
[57:51] So it, it winds up
[57:53] costing me time,
[57:54] fatigue,
[57:55] crews, health, and
[57:57] so on. >> Let
[57:58] me ask then, I'm, I'm
[58:00] assuming the volume.
[58:01] Uh, of your calls,
[58:03] uh, remote rural
[58:04] areas, auto accidents
[58:07] more than anything.
[58:08] Probably if, if
[58:09] you're called on
[58:11] an auto accident in a rural
[58:12] area and the
[58:14] opportunity comes in where
[58:16] Med will pick them
[58:17] up and transport them,
[58:19] since you don't transport a patient,
[58:21] but you provide on-site
[58:22] care there, do you still
[58:24] get paid? >> So we're
[58:25] allowed on that situation,
[58:27] we, we do bill the base
[58:28] rate. We don't bill any,
[58:30] typically in EMS you bill base
[58:32] rate and, um,
[58:33] uh, mileage.
[58:35] But when we do that and we
[58:36] transfer them to the helicopter, we
[58:38] just bill the base rate
[58:40] of our
[58:40] call.
[58:43] and that kind of leads
[58:44] into, I'm sorry if
[58:46] I hijack your question
[58:47] here. Um,
[58:49] there is a
[58:50] push right now for EMS
[58:52] to do treatment in
[58:52] place.
[58:54] Um, because we
[58:56] do get a lot of that, come check
[58:57] me out, come see
[58:59] this, come see that because
[59:00] we really become
[59:01] the
[59:03] healthcare system to a lot of
[59:04] people, um,
[59:06] But there's no avenues right
[59:08] now to fund that.
[59:09] There, there is a,
[59:11] the big beautiful bill gave a
[59:12] little bit of grant money
[59:14] to pay
[59:16] for some trucks and some training
[59:17] and, and, and,
[59:19] one time. When that runs
[59:21] out, there's no avenue,
[59:23] um.
[59:25] Medicaid's not there to
[59:27] pay the, the, you
[59:28] know, state of
[59:29] Texas.
[59:31] Uh, passed a law to
[59:33] make their insurance, private
[59:34] insurance and Medicaid pay
[59:35] for treatment in place.
[59:37] Oklahoma doesn't have that
[59:38] law.
[59:40] So
[59:41] And, and it's
[59:42] becoming expected of us
[59:44] to do that, go treat people
[59:45] in place,
[59:47] especially diabetics, things of
[59:48] that nature. Um,
[59:50] we go treat them and then you're
[59:51] talking about cost of a 911
[59:53] versus a, uh, not
[59:54] a deal. If
[59:56] I go and
[59:57] give, say
[59:59] glucagon, which is a
[1:00:00] diabetic medication,
[1:00:01] um, if I give it to somebody,
[1:00:03] glucagon is about $400
[1:00:05] a dose.
[1:00:06] And I get no reimbursement
[1:00:08] from that. It costs me
[1:00:10] about $125
[1:00:11] to $135 an
[1:00:13] hour to run an ambulance.
[1:00:14] So one hour.
[1:00:16] $400 dose,
[1:00:18] $135
[1:00:19] to run the ambulance, that's pay
[1:00:21] and fuel, diesel, wear
[1:00:22] and tear.
[1:00:24] So one call cost
[1:00:25] me over $500
[1:00:27] and I get no
[1:00:27] reimbursement.
[1:00:30] And that's, that
[1:00:31] happens.
[1:00:33] When I first started 29 years
[1:00:34] ago, we probably ran
[1:00:36] 5% treatment,
[1:00:37] no transport. Today,
[1:00:39] I think we're up into the
[1:00:41] 2020 to
[1:00:42] 30% depending on
[1:00:43] what District
[1:00:45] you're in?
[1:00:47] >> Well, that's, that's good to
[1:00:48] note. I've made
[1:00:50] a note myself here if,
[1:00:51] if our neighbour
[1:00:53] to the south has done
[1:00:54] something that actually helped
[1:00:56] and, and we have yet to move
[1:00:57] on that, Bobby
[1:00:59] can get us details that may
[1:01:00] be something we want to
[1:01:01] try.
[1:01:05] >> The big kicker on treatment
[1:01:06] in place is Medicare. It'll
[1:01:07] take the federal CMs
[1:01:09] to change their
[1:01:10] rules.
[1:01:11] That's a bigger deal,
[1:01:13] but locally we can
[1:01:14] affect Medicaid and private
[1:01:16] insurance.
[1:01:20] >> Back to your
[1:01:21] presentation and then your
[1:01:23] clarification of
[1:01:24] something
[1:01:25] that
[1:01:29] Up to 3 meals.
[1:01:31] And
[1:01:33] In addition to that would
[1:01:34] be in the form of a
[1:01:36] bond with a
[1:01:37] specific
[1:01:38] proposal.
[1:01:39] Is that correct?
[1:01:41] >> Yes. Yeah, so the
[1:01:43] initial 3 mills is to fund
[1:01:44] the operations like he said, and
[1:01:46] that's a good clarification. I probably didn't
[1:01:47] make that super clear. The
[1:01:49] additional 3 would be for a
[1:01:50] specific to build
[1:01:52] a facility, buy more
[1:01:53] trucks, and so it's in the form of a
[1:01:54] bond. And so that mills
[1:01:56] then I guess funds a sinking
[1:01:58] fund to pay for that.
[1:01:59] >> And, and that would be for
[1:02:00] a specific project
[1:02:02] for a specific amount of time
[1:02:04] and then it would drop off.
[1:02:05] Yes, >> yeah, you have,
[1:02:06] and it has to be a vote of the
[1:02:08] people every time, so
[1:02:09] you have to be pretty
[1:02:11] specific on the
[1:02:12] ballot.
[1:02:18] >> You talked about the number of fire
[1:02:20] departments, uh, in your
[1:02:22] response area. How many of
[1:02:23] them are medical first
[1:02:25] response? Are you
[1:02:26] providing all of it?
[1:02:27] >> I, I have one
[1:02:29] that is an actual certified
[1:02:30] EMR agency, and that's the paid
[1:02:32] department of Durant. The rest
[1:02:33] of them, they'll come out if
[1:02:35] we ask for help,
[1:02:36] um, but they're not an
[1:02:38] EMR agency. And
[1:02:39] a lot of them have,
[1:02:41] which like I take
[1:02:42] cholera, like a lot
[1:02:44] of the guys that are on Calera
[1:02:45] work for either,
[1:02:47] uh, um, they work
[1:02:48] for EMS or they work
[1:02:49] for, you know,
[1:02:51] so there's a lot of trained volunteer
[1:02:53] firemen that are EMT basics
[1:02:54] all the way to paramedics.
[1:02:56] So most of them don't do,
[1:02:58] most agencies,
[1:03:00] a lot of your volunteer departments don't do
[1:03:01] the EMR, the
[1:03:03] actual state licenser
[1:03:04] for EMR agency
[1:03:06] because it's, It's one
[1:03:07] more hoop as a volunteer. It's
[1:03:09] one more thing you got to do as a volunteer
[1:03:10] and you
[1:03:11] know,
[1:03:13] volunteerism
[1:03:14] is,
[1:03:15] no, we're not looking for more
[1:03:16] responsibility and then
[1:03:18] when the state calls you got to meet
[1:03:19] them, take,
[1:03:21] you gotta take off work to go
[1:03:22] meet them at our station for
[1:03:24] them to do an inspection.
[1:03:26] you know, so it's But
[1:03:28] they're there and they are trained and
[1:03:29] they, and they, they help
[1:03:31] tremendously. >> They're trained,
[1:03:33] but they, because they are
[1:03:34] not EMR certified,
[1:03:36] they're not carrying any equipment.
[1:03:37] >> They carry oxygen
[1:03:39] and first aid.
[1:03:40] So, and so they
[1:03:41] basically can stabilize a
[1:03:43] patient if they're bleeding out
[1:03:44] or something like that
[1:03:46] until the ambulance gets
[1:03:47] there.
[1:03:48] So go ahead, I'm
[1:03:50] sorry. >> follow up, Mr.
[1:03:51] Chair.
[1:03:52] Uh,
[1:03:53] so, kind of
[1:03:55] along those, along
[1:03:57] those lines,
[1:03:58] uh, well, actually
[1:03:59] circling, circling back to
[1:04:01] what you said
[1:04:02] before, what kind of, what's
[1:04:04] your percentage of
[1:04:05] overall build
[1:04:07] that you actually
[1:04:08] collect?
[1:04:09] >> Uh, I think right now we're
[1:04:11] at 22%.
[1:04:12] At Bryan County.
[1:04:14] >> Is yours >> similar,
[1:04:16] yes. >> So
[1:04:17] I, I think that's important for people
[1:04:19] to understand
[1:04:20] that of the actual
[1:04:22] bill.
[1:04:24] So you told us
[1:04:25] how little this millage
[1:04:27] actually pays
[1:04:29] to sustain your system
[1:04:30] and then what you're
[1:04:31] billing.
[1:04:33] is
[1:04:33] 22%.
[1:04:36] Of what you actually, the
[1:04:37] actual bill and
[1:04:39] like you said, Medicare,
[1:04:40] Medicaid,
[1:04:42] private insurance is telling
[1:04:43] you what
[1:04:45] they're going to reimburse.
[1:04:47] So to
[1:04:49] your point, that's
[1:04:51] none of us would go into that business
[1:04:52] model.
[1:04:54] So
[1:04:55] What Texas has done
[1:04:57] with the treatment in
[1:04:58] place because
[1:05:00] as a, as a longtime
[1:05:02] firefighter and and being
[1:05:03] in this.
[1:05:05] And I, I would
[1:05:06] think it would
[1:05:07] maybe worse in
[1:05:09] the rural areas.
[1:05:11] 911 is
[1:05:12] people's  into
[1:05:14] the medical
[1:05:14] system.
[1:05:16] How much do you think treatment
[1:05:18] in place would change
[1:05:19] the game for your
[1:05:20] services?
[1:05:24] >> I, I think it has a,
[1:05:25] a, a big, it'll have a
[1:05:27] big impact on us because we,
[1:05:28] we get right now, we get a lot
[1:05:30] of people
[1:05:30] that
[1:05:33] They just wanna,
[1:05:35] we transport a lot of stuff that doesn't
[1:05:36] need to be transported. I'll say
[1:05:38] that
[1:05:39] non-emergency like we'll get called
[1:05:41] 911 and we'll still
[1:05:42] transport them even
[1:05:43] though
[1:05:45] Probably maybe they shouldn't
[1:05:46] go by EMS, but they do
[1:05:48] because they want to go. They tell us they
[1:05:49] want to go and so we take
[1:05:50] them.
[1:05:51] If we had that more of an
[1:05:53] option to be more aggressive
[1:05:54] towards treatment in place,
[1:05:56] there's a lot of things that could probably
[1:05:57] be, hey, treat in place,
[1:05:59] could go see your private, your
[1:06:01] doctor, you know, on
[1:06:02] Tuesday, whatever you need to
[1:06:03] do.
[1:06:04] Um,
[1:06:06] And
[1:06:07] But right now it's not a
[1:06:09] big push, you know, like, as
[1:06:10] a, as a chief, I'm not
[1:06:12] pushing.
[1:06:14] I mean, I'm never telling my
[1:06:15] crews to force people
[1:06:17] to go to the hospital, you know, if they
[1:06:18] refuse, instruct
[1:06:20] them of the, the, of what
[1:06:21] could happen, you know,
[1:06:23] give them the worst case scenario
[1:06:24] and ask them to
[1:06:26] go. But if they
[1:06:27] refuse, you know, they still
[1:06:28] refuse. But at the same
[1:06:30] time, I think if you had the
[1:06:31] option to give them more
[1:06:33] treatment, And
[1:06:34] give them have, and that, that's
[1:06:36] another component of treatment in place
[1:06:38] is that there's a lot of stuff built in
[1:06:39] to help get them into
[1:06:41] this facility, into
[1:06:42] a, a primary
[1:06:44] care physician, an urgent care
[1:06:45] or something of that nature. There's,
[1:06:47] there's
[1:06:49] There's a book, you know, there's a
[1:06:50] protocol for that
[1:06:51] to help get them introduced
[1:06:53] into the healthcare system in
[1:06:54] a different way
[1:06:56] that doesn't tax the ERs
[1:06:58] and the EMS system and
[1:06:59] stuff over time,
[1:07:00] so. >> I
[1:07:02] was just gonna add, I mean, you've
[1:07:03] probably seen there is a
[1:07:05] new push to for this rural
[1:07:06] health transformation
[1:07:08] project again,
[1:07:09] great, still have to apply for a
[1:07:11] grant, you know,
[1:07:12] I'm 26
[1:07:14] employees and one director with an
[1:07:15] admin trying to manage a
[1:07:17] grant grant compliance.
[1:07:18] I mean. You know, but
[1:07:20] it's, it is a push for kind of
[1:07:21] a community paramedic
[1:07:23] type program
[1:07:24] which would benefit us. I
[1:07:25] mean, everyone in the state,
[1:07:27] especially in these rural areas.
[1:07:29] um, but then once that
[1:07:30] money runs out, what happens? Now
[1:07:32] I've got a program in place and I
[1:07:33] have to sustain it.
[1:07:35] So, you know, a lot of what
[1:07:36] we talked about at the beginning is
[1:07:38] sustainability.
[1:07:39] There is that whole piece of
[1:07:41] reimbursement, which is a whole
[1:07:42] another bucket
[1:07:43] that at least as
[1:07:45] as the one group and
[1:07:46] you know, we don't even
[1:07:48] feel like tackling that because
[1:07:49] that involves
[1:07:51] large insurance companies
[1:07:52] and we don't have the
[1:07:53] ability to
[1:07:55] even start
[1:07:56] that conversation.
[1:07:58] So for us looking at
[1:07:59] sustainability,
[1:08:00] again, options are out there for
[1:08:02] grants, but for
[1:08:03] me, trying to manage
[1:08:04] 6 grants.
[1:08:06] It's difficult. Like I have to
[1:08:07] hire someone just to manage the grant,
[1:08:09] you know. So,
[1:08:10] um, but definitely
[1:08:12] having the ability to treat these
[1:08:13] people who just don't have a
[1:08:15] ride. They couldn't make their
[1:08:16] dialysis. They,
[1:08:18] you know, so many things that we
[1:08:19] see people for that really don't
[1:08:21] need to go in an ambulance to an
[1:08:23] emergency room
[1:08:24] to, you know, clog
[1:08:26] up the system.
[1:08:27] But we treat them, we take care
[1:08:29] of them because
[1:08:30] that's what we
[1:08:31] do.
[1:08:34] >> Mr. Chairman.
[1:08:36] So again kind of circling
[1:08:37] back to the beginning, you
[1:08:38] respond outside outside
[1:08:40] your district obviously
[1:08:42] you bill.
[1:08:44] But you can't bill more than
[1:08:45] what you're, you're billing
[1:08:47] for other than
[1:08:48] mileage. The people that
[1:08:49] are actually paying the freight on
[1:08:51] their property tax, can
[1:08:52] you?
[1:08:54] Is it, is it the
[1:08:55] same rate? >> Yeah,
[1:08:57] we don't, we don't have a different
[1:08:58] rate for in county or out of
[1:09:00] county, so,
[1:09:01] uh.
[1:09:03] >> Thank
[1:09:03] you.
[1:09:06] >> Go ahead.
[1:09:07] >> This is probably more
[1:09:09] more of a statement.
[1:09:11] But we're going to have to figure
[1:09:13] out Another
[1:09:14] form of funding, at least where
[1:09:16] I'm from, representing
[1:09:17] dempsey.
[1:09:19] You're just not going to pass a
[1:09:20] bond. the
[1:09:22] landowners,
[1:09:23] um, I know the schools
[1:09:25] just had recently one at Stillwell.
[1:09:26] The landowners in
[1:09:28] my area, you know,
[1:09:29] they, they look at it like,
[1:09:31] why are we footing the
[1:09:32] bill for everything? That's why I was
[1:09:34] asking about sales tax
[1:09:35] because
[1:09:37] We, we need it. We need the
[1:09:39] money. We need more
[1:09:40] ambulances.
[1:09:41] when you need it, you need it, but when you
[1:09:43] don't, nobody thinks about it. So
[1:09:44] that's why you're not going to get a bond
[1:09:46] passed. Um,
[1:09:47] so again, I don't know
[1:09:49] what the solution
[1:09:50] is, but
[1:09:52] We're going to have to look at other
[1:09:53] means than going after
[1:09:55] the landowners, at least where I
[1:09:56] live. And, uh, I'm,
[1:09:57] I'm definitely behind all of this,
[1:09:59] but we just have to figure out
[1:10:00] another path. >> No,
[1:10:02] we, we, we 100% agree
[1:10:03] with you because when we first started
[1:10:05] coming up here, we were trying to get
[1:10:06] the cap, a state
[1:10:08] question to get the cap on the 3
[1:10:09] mills removed so that people
[1:10:11] could vote whatever they
[1:10:12] wanted, you know.
[1:10:14] And of course, big
[1:10:15] landowners, big
[1:10:16] companies that have big stakes in
[1:10:18] property taxes
[1:10:20] really fought that and got rid of
[1:10:21] that. And then, uh,
[1:10:23] with Representative Newton
[1:10:24] and we got House Bill
[1:10:25] 1960 passed, that was the
[1:10:27] 1 in sales tax.
[1:10:28] So there's
[1:10:29] now
[1:10:31] A means to do it,
[1:10:33] to, to change the, the,
[1:10:35] the funding because you're you're
[1:10:36] 100% right. Nobody wants to vote
[1:10:37] more property tax, especially
[1:10:39] like in Bryan County, over 60%
[1:10:40] of all the property is
[1:10:41] rental.
[1:10:44] And so you only have
[1:10:45] 40% of the people
[1:10:46] paying
[1:10:48] for the ambulance service
[1:10:50] and probably the 60% are the
[1:10:51] ones calling the
[1:10:52] ambulance.
[1:10:56] >> Go ahead. I'm
[1:10:57] good.
[1:10:59] Thank y'all. Uh, any other
[1:11:00] questions?
[1:11:03] >> I just, please just to that, um,
[1:11:04] and the other thing that's a little scary
[1:11:06] at the moment is just all the
[1:11:08] conversations and the political
[1:11:09] environment of removing property
[1:11:11] taxes definitely
[1:11:12] has us, you know,
[1:11:14] saying, hey, what are we gonna
[1:11:16] do if that happens? So
[1:11:17] just something else to kind of keep
[1:11:19] in mind and I know some of it
[1:11:20] has been, oh, we'll just do it
[1:11:22] to, you know, seniors
[1:11:23] or what, but any front
[1:11:25] cut to that.
[1:11:27] revenue stream you can
[1:11:28] see is would be
[1:11:30] drastic,
[1:11:31] so. Something
[1:11:33] to keep in mind moving
[1:11:34] forward.
[1:11:36] >> Uh bobby,
[1:11:38] you hadn't, I mean,
[1:11:39] brother,
[1:11:40] brothers,
[1:11:42] oh, I know. I mean, like I said,
[1:11:44] but still this is, this
[1:11:45] is, you
[1:11:46] hit
[1:11:50] but, but
[1:11:51] no,
[1:11:55] from, from my point
[1:11:56] of interest, but like I said,
[1:11:57] this is just that's what I
[1:11:59] love about you know studies
[1:12:00] and I want to thank
[1:12:02] our audience too, but
[1:12:03] still you have any
[1:12:04] closing.
[1:12:07] Oh, no, no,
[1:12:08] I'm good, happy to
[1:12:10] answer any questions or back over
[1:12:11] to Representsky
[1:12:13] just, uh,
[1:12:15] close it out and like I said,
[1:12:17] guys, this, this is
[1:12:18] great information. Like I said, it's
[1:12:20] just, I've been texting
[1:12:21] my EMS
[1:12:23] guy. I mean, Brian
[1:12:24] knows him very well and like I said, he's a
[1:12:26] dear friend of mine and just we
[1:12:27] have. I mean,
[1:12:28] just get out and
[1:12:30] talk to the people and
[1:12:32] see and I'm
[1:12:33] only share one other story
[1:12:35] about my
[1:12:35] EMS.
[1:12:37] In Oklahoma every now and then we
[1:12:38] have
[1:12:40] Roadblocks
[1:12:41] traffic.
[1:12:43] A train
[1:12:44] going to our paper
[1:12:45] mill.
[1:12:47] buddy of mine had a heart
[1:12:49] attack.
[1:12:50] My EMS
[1:12:51] ambulance sitting
[1:12:53] trying to get across that train track
[1:12:55] so long the driver had to
[1:12:56] get out or he got out
[1:12:58] and helped the medics in
[1:12:59] the back give
[1:13:00] CPR.
[1:13:03] I can say my dear friend didn't
[1:13:05] make it. I don't only
[1:13:06] good lord knows if but
[1:13:08] still that's still some
[1:13:09] of the battles we have in
[1:13:10] rural Oklahoma
[1:13:12] because
[1:13:13] you
[1:13:15] And that's that's
[1:13:16] another so it, but anyhow, thank
[1:13:18] you.
[1:13:19] >> Well, thank you again,
[1:13:21] Chairman Dempsey
[1:13:22] for allowing
[1:13:23] us the opportunity
[1:13:24] here
[1:13:26] And the conversation
[1:13:28] that that we've had
[1:13:29] Bobby talking about this,
[1:13:31] uh it's obvious there are
[1:13:32] no easy
[1:13:34] solutions.
[1:13:35] I think there are some adjustments
[1:13:37] to be made in
[1:13:39] in some of my
[1:13:40] counties that the
[1:13:41] map showed
[1:13:42] obviously multiple
[1:13:44] districts, uh,
[1:13:45] multiple funding there
[1:13:47] the the challenges of
[1:13:49] of even that, you know,
[1:13:50] consolidation
[1:13:52] may need to be
[1:13:53] done where it makes sense,
[1:13:55] but. When
[1:13:57] you, when you make
[1:13:58] changes in what
[1:14:00] has been voted on,
[1:14:01] you know, before, when you're talking
[1:14:03] a particular school
[1:14:04] district that
[1:14:05] may encompass
[1:14:07] some folks from
[1:14:08] two or three
[1:14:09] counties, you
[1:14:11] know, the opportunity to
[1:14:12] bring money
[1:14:14] into your county from
[1:14:15] a neighbour,
[1:14:17] uh.
[1:14:18] Go away if you
[1:14:20] dissolve those
[1:14:21] and go back to a countywide
[1:14:23] system. The
[1:14:24] cumulative total would
[1:14:26] be less than what
[1:14:27] we're doing today,
[1:14:28] so
[1:14:30] I'm open to ideas
[1:14:31] and suggestions and
[1:14:33] those of you in the room
[1:14:34] that that
[1:14:36] have a stake in this as
[1:14:37] well. if
[1:14:39] we have
[1:14:40] ideas.
[1:14:43] The treatment in place
[1:14:44] is an
[1:14:45] option. we're
[1:14:47] certainly open
[1:14:48] to to doing whatever
[1:14:50] you guys think will
[1:14:51] help and
[1:14:52] I was
[1:14:54] hopeful that
[1:14:55] we might have more
[1:14:57] ideas and and and that
[1:14:58] my ignorance was going to
[1:15:00] be illustrated in
[1:15:01] here that why haven't we
[1:15:03] done this yet, but
[1:15:04] it's not it's not easy
[1:15:06] obviously but we do need
[1:15:07] to keep up
[1:15:09] the work and try and.
[1:15:10] Communicate. Yes, Bobby, >> we
[1:15:12] will provide some, some, some
[1:15:13] thoughts to you guys on that.
[1:15:15] we're still fleshing them out, but we know we
[1:15:17] have some other state options that we
[1:15:18] want to look at. But we've got a
[1:15:20] little bit of time, so we'll definitely present
[1:15:21] that to the committee so that
[1:15:23] you can chew on them and we can craft
[1:15:24] something with an Oklahoma flair to it.
[1:15:26] But we, we will be bringing you
[1:15:27] >> some stuff. Well, I would
[1:15:29] appreciate that. I'm sure the other members
[1:15:31] would as well, and thank you
[1:15:32] guys for, for being here
[1:15:33] as well. And, and,
[1:15:35] uh, we'll continue
[1:15:36] the conversation, Mr.
[1:15:37] Chairman. >> Hey
[1:15:39] Eddie, can I say something?
[1:15:40] Go ahead. Um, I was
[1:15:42] gonna kind of clarify. I know there
[1:15:43] was a question about districts and
[1:15:45] multiple districts inside
[1:15:46] of a county.
[1:15:48] Um, if they've passed the
[1:15:49] 522.
[1:15:51] District if they've passed if the
[1:15:53] people pass that.
[1:15:54] Typically what happens,
[1:15:56] and there may be
[1:15:57] variations to this, but
[1:15:59] typically what happens is the county
[1:16:00] commissioners will establish the board
[1:16:01] just like what she was saying.
[1:16:03] And then that board
[1:16:04] will, there's a lot of
[1:16:06] places and a lot of counties that
[1:16:07] didn't have EMS
[1:16:09] but like a city might
[1:16:10] have funded the
[1:16:12] bills and stuff like that.
[1:16:14] And so they did vote like
[1:16:15] a bond of the 522
[1:16:17] district in, and then the,
[1:16:18] the 522
[1:16:20] district board
[1:16:21] then contracted to
[1:16:23] those cities.
[1:16:25] Because the, the, the constitution
[1:16:26] allows that, that the 522
[1:16:28] district can
[1:16:29] contract. So
[1:16:31] in a lot of places you have,
[1:16:32] um, different counties that
[1:16:34] have contracted
[1:16:35] to certain cities that may have
[1:16:37] already started running EMS
[1:16:38] and kind of gives them a subsidy
[1:16:40] out of that 520, that out
[1:16:41] of that millage. So
[1:16:43] that's sometimes how you
[1:16:44] get multiple
[1:16:46] agencies all over the
[1:16:47] place, um,
[1:16:48] and, and so on. And
[1:16:50] then, um.
[1:16:51] You were talking about solutions
[1:16:53] and things like that and then
[1:16:54] want to deal. And I know last year we
[1:16:56] passed a bill,
[1:16:58] uh, Senate Bill
[1:16:59] 240 or
[1:17:00] 405 something
[1:17:02] anyway, Senate bill,
[1:17:03] and it got signed and it made
[1:17:05] EMS essential
[1:17:07] for the purposes of
[1:17:08] federal
[1:17:08] funding.
[1:17:11] That's it.
[1:17:13] We're not essential.
[1:17:14] We're in the state of Oklahoma,
[1:17:16] there's only, we're
[1:17:18] one of, I think
[1:17:19] 17 states that has some
[1:17:20] variation of calling EMS
[1:17:22] essential,
[1:17:24] but
[1:17:24] there's
[1:17:26] Less than 5
[1:17:28] states that
[1:17:29] consider EMS an essential
[1:17:31] service. And remember we're talking
[1:17:32] about fire is considered
[1:17:33] essential, you can't do without
[1:17:35] it. Police
[1:17:36] is essential. you can't do without
[1:17:37] it. Both of them are mentioned
[1:17:39] in the constitution, like
[1:17:41] way back that you will have a police chief
[1:17:42] or a volunteer fire department,
[1:17:44] you will have a
[1:17:45] sheriff. E
[1:17:46] ems is only mentioned in Article
[1:17:48] X as a funding
[1:17:49] stream.
[1:17:51] But we're not
[1:17:53] essential. House Bill 1887
[1:17:55] was passed several years back
[1:17:56] that says county commissioners will have a
[1:17:58] plan for
[1:17:59] EMS. That
[1:18:01] plan could be called
[1:18:02] the next county.
[1:18:04] It doesn't say you will have an
[1:18:06] ambulance. It doesn't say you will
[1:18:07] fund an ambulance. It doesn't say you
[1:18:09] will do anything.
[1:18:10] So
[1:18:12] A real big push for
[1:18:14] us would be
[1:18:15] to be considered essential.
[1:18:16] During COVID,
[1:18:18] we were on the 6th
[1:18:20] tier to get the
[1:18:21] COVID shot if
[1:18:23] you wanted it.
[1:18:25] Record drivers were
[1:18:27] on the first tier.
[1:18:28] And we were on 6th. We
[1:18:30] were in the bedrooms
[1:18:31] wading through snot rags,
[1:18:33] wading through sweats
[1:18:35] and getting in your sweaty bed
[1:18:36] and picking you up and putting you in
[1:18:38] a, 20
[1:18:39] ft square foot
[1:18:41] box and breathing your
[1:18:42] air and doing
[1:18:44] everything with you and we
[1:18:45] were not even considered
[1:18:47] essential.
[1:18:49] So if there's
[1:18:50] one solution, that would be
[1:18:52] to make us
[1:18:53] 100%
[1:18:54] >> but the Senate bill last year did
[1:18:56] not change that.
[1:18:57] >> It only made
[1:18:59] us essential for the
[1:19:00] purposes of federal
[1:19:01] funding.
[1:19:03] >> I have one other
[1:19:04] question.
[1:19:06] >> Uh, going back to
[1:19:07] the Senate bill, Senator Woods ran
[1:19:09] that, uh, on
[1:19:10] our side did it. And
[1:19:12] that was a request
[1:19:13] from our EMS director
[1:19:15] Diane Yell, uh,
[1:19:16] so that they could help get grants. The
[1:19:18] only thing I didn't like about that bill
[1:19:19] was it also threw
[1:19:21] in private
[1:19:22] ambulance.
[1:19:24] You can get that. So
[1:19:25] in our area we have
[1:19:27] Patford, who
[1:19:28] they do serve the area and you pay
[1:19:29] them, but Patford's out of Hope,
[1:19:31] Arkansas.
[1:19:32] That's, that's where their main office is
[1:19:34] at. So anyway, I just wanted to
[1:19:36] throw that in. Yeah, >> and we,
[1:19:37] we supported the bill because we just
[1:19:39] felt like it got our
[1:19:40] foot in the door as at least
[1:19:42] essential, you know, we,
[1:19:43] so now we have another argument to come
[1:19:45] back and we would argue
[1:19:46] with Eddie, but he's leaving
[1:19:47] us,
[1:19:50] so.
[1:19:51] >> I
[1:19:53] I appreciate your your
[1:19:55] comment there, Representative,
[1:19:57] and
[1:19:59] That is something we didn't
[1:20:00] get into here much
[1:20:02] this morning.
[1:20:04] Many communities
[1:20:06] feel like they cannot
[1:20:08] keep up if it was time to
[1:20:09] buy a new ambulance and they
[1:20:11] didn't do it, and
[1:20:12] many have made the decision
[1:20:14] from
[1:20:15] from supporting it publicly
[1:20:17] to a private
[1:20:19] provider and
[1:20:20] then
[1:20:21] what equipment
[1:20:23] is
[1:20:25] Available at that
[1:20:26] time, uh,
[1:20:28] isn't anymore. And, and
[1:20:29] then you go down that
[1:20:31] road and There
[1:20:32] may not be a way back
[1:20:34] at some point in time, so
[1:20:35] I don't want to
[1:20:38] Stir up that conversation
[1:20:39] again, but it is, it is
[1:20:41] part of the,
[1:20:42] uh,
[1:20:43] process, obviously and,
[1:20:44] and again,
[1:20:46] thank you all and
[1:20:48] appreciate your
[1:20:48] input.
[1:20:52] >> Thank y'all everything. Like I
[1:20:53] said, great comments, great
[1:20:55] questions, uh and
[1:20:56] uh and
[1:20:57] we
[1:21:00] like to visit with us we'll be
[1:21:01] around and
[1:21:04] Until about noon that I'm
[1:21:05] going to God's country.
[1:21:07] So, so,
[1:21:08] but thank y'all very, very
[1:21:09] much and thank y'all for
[1:21:11] participating in it's
[1:21:12] great information day. Thank y'all. adjourned.