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rightenate judiciary will come

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to order

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today we have interim

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study2026-51 Senator Hicks for

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supervised visitation safety and

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accountability appreciate you

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bringing this study forward. I

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know that there's been some

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issues including one issue

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within my district's hometown

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even as to what supervised

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custody would look at. So I look

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forward to the information

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Senator Hicks what I'll

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typically do is just turn it

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over to you for introduction of

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your study brief overview and

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then you can go straight into

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the introduction of your

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speakers

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whether you want to follow

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agenda I think that that

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probably would be best still

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willll direct any questions

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through the chair or vice chair

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but if you have any of those

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we'd be happy to honor you for

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or recognize you for asking

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those questions as well soen

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Hicks microphones turned over to

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you for introduction of your

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study and then going straight

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into the introduction of your

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speakers.

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thank you Mr Chair and thank you

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so much for all my colleagues

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joining us today thank you to

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those of you who made time to be

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here in person for this very

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important issue

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today's study will examine

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Oklahoma's current framework for

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court-ordered supervised

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visitation including the

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existing standards training

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safety protocols and

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accountability measures we'll

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also hear from judges child

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welfare professionals victim

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advocates, service providers

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legal experts and a family

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directly affected by supervised

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visitation.

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our goal is to better understand

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how supervised visitation

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operates in Oklahomaview

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national practices and identify

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opportunities to strengthen

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safety, consistency and

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accountability for children and

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families. now we are ready to

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hear from our very first

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presenter the honornorable

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Kim conyers, special judged from

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judicial District w1.

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s ome this is my first time on

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this side of the microphone I

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think.

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it's red is that correct? OK

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perfect right well as Senator

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Hicks said my name is Kim

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conyers and I am a special

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judged in Cleveland County. I've

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been on the bench there coming

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up on about 3 years now. My

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dockets in Cleveland County

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are exclusively dealing with the

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children's cases in Cleveland

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County so I have the juvenile

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deprived docket which is where

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children have been placed in DhS

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custody. I would also have the

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juvenile delinquent docket which

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is where children have gotten

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charged with offenses and then

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I also do our adoption as well

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as our adult and juvenile mental

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health dockets in Cleveland

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County.

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so my experience with supervised

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visitation comes from the DHS

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side of things when a child is

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placed in DHS custody and

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that that case is going to

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proceed through court the one of

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the things that we address at

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every hearing is what type of

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visitation how frequent the

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visitation is and what that

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looks like for the parents

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involved in the case

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so in my courtroom the way that

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I have typically handled it is

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all of the parents are

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represented by an attorney as

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well as the child has an

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attorney and sometimes we have a

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guardian ad lite or other folks

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involved as well. I typically at

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our review hearings will take

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just brief statements from all

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the parties including my DHS

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worker as to what would be in

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the best interest of the child

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how things are progressing in

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the case in terms of

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the services the parents have

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established themselves in or the

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progress that they've made to

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work those services while the

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child has been in DHS custody.

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It is up to DHS specifically

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to organize and establish a

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visitation or what they call a

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family time plan and then the

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court has the discretion to to

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modify that or make changes to

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it as I see fit as the case is

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progressing along

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most of the time what happens

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is the DHS worker will report

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here's kind of the progress the

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parents have made on their

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services herere's kind of how

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visits are going up into this

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point and this is what we the

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step we'd like to progress to

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next. It starts with a

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supervised plan that is

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supervised either by a DHS

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worker or sometimes a DHS

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employee or sometimes an

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appropriate family member a lot

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of times if children are placed

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say in

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the grandparents' home or with a

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family friend that person can be

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approved by the department to be

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the visitation supervisor

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after supervised visitation

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it steps down to what they call

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monitored visitation which is

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a lowerle obviously of

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supervision where DHS and other

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supervisors kind of come in

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and out during a visitation so

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they're not there the entire

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time but they check in during

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that twoho visit for instance.

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and then from there it moves

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to unsupervised to overnights

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and then usually to

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maybe weekends before then it

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moves into

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the stage of trial reunification

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which is kind of the final stage

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of we're still involved in the

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family's life but the child is

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essentially living back in the

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residence with one or both of

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the parents at that point in

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time.

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so that's kind of what I look at

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and I I'm a big believer that

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my decisions from the bench are

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better and are better for the

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family the more information I

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have. I I don't there's a lot

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that goes on outside of my

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courtroom with these families

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and my hope my goal is to get as

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much information from the

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participants in the case as I

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can while I'm sitting on the

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bench in order to make the most

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informed choice as to what's in

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the best interest of these

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children

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hicks

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thank you Mr chairir. when

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you're talking about the

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information that you have

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available is there what does

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the documentation look like that

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you're provided from DHS Is

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there a standardized form? there

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is there is a standardized form

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that they submit um5 days prior

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to any review hearing that is a

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review report and it documents

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what progress the parents

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have made on services and what

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visit

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ation looks like in terms of how

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things have gone, you know have

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they exercised the full time of

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visitation? have there been any

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you know

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hiccups or anything go wrong

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during the last review period in

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addition to that they also a lot

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of times will attach reports

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from the actual service

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providers to those review

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reports. So I'm seeing an actual

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report for instance from the

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parentsug and alcohol counselor

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or I'm seeing the actual

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psychological evaluation that

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was court ordered for a parent

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to participate in.

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and not just me but the other

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attorneys involved in the case

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have access to that

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documentation and information as

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well.

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Further questions

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Judge conyers said think

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whenever you're doing an

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introduction you said just

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during DHS custody are the only

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ones that you supervise is this

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also during ok they are my my

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cases are strictly the cases

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on the juvenile deprived docket

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which is children that have for

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whatever reason been placed in

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DHS custody or are under DHS

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supervision if they if it hasn't

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risen to the level of us taking

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the children into actual DhS

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custody.

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Is there much review whenever

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it's just a family dispute like

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say a divorce or other

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situations for sure you I'll let

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judgedge Byeer speak directly to

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that. My experience has been

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with those that I do have a

250
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handful of paternity cases that

251
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involve some of that but my

252
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experience typically with those

253
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has been it is up to the the

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parties involved and the judged

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how frequently they feel like

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it's

257
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necessary or warranted to review

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those

259
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type of of situations typically

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in deprived cases I can go as

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long as6 months without holding

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a review. most of the cases that

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I hear we review at a minimum

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every 90 days and then I have a

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standing policy in my courtroom

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that all of the attorneys are

267
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familiar with that is if

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anything needs to be brought to

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the court's attention

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you contact my office we put

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it on a review docket

272
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immediately and you get in front

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of me on my next wednesday

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docket

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Further questions Senator Hicks

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should recognize

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thank you Mr Chair. So kind

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of in preparation we had a

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conversation before today's

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study and so I understand that

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Oklahoma County has kind of a

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unique

283
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team effort so I was wondering

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if you might be able to to share

285
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kind of what that looks like

286
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that's provided through the

287
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statutes that you may be able to

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have this kind of I will

289
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actually turn that over to Judge

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Byer to speak about Cleveland

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County does not have any such

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thing in place that I'm aware of

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at this point in time.

294
00:22:36,984 --> 00:22:37,234
certainly not for the

295
00:22:39,284 --> 00:22:39,534
deprived cases I will say I I

296
00:22:40,784 --> 00:22:41,034
noticed on the agenda that a

297
00:22:42,884 --> 00:22:43,134
representative from the

298
00:22:43,451 --> 00:22:43,701
familypresentation Act

299
00:22:46,551 --> 00:22:46,801
is scheduled as well that's been

300
00:22:48,284 --> 00:22:48,534
one of the biggest benefits that

301
00:22:50,784 --> 00:22:51,034
I have seen in my courtroom is

302
00:22:53,051 --> 00:22:53,301
utilizing that because I have

303
00:22:56,551 --> 00:22:56,801
the same pool of attorneys who

304
00:22:58,284 --> 00:22:58,534
were taking court appointments

305
00:23:00,284 --> 00:23:00,534
in cases and on one case they

306
00:23:02,284 --> 00:23:02,534
might represent mom and on the

307
00:23:03,084 --> 00:23:03,334
next case on my docket they have

308
00:23:05,084 --> 00:23:05,334
the children and so it gives

309
00:23:08,784 --> 00:23:09,034
them a broad perspective of

310
00:23:11,084 --> 00:23:11,334
these cases and also allows them

311
00:23:12,784 --> 00:23:13,034
to develop working relationships

312
00:23:13,451 --> 00:23:13,701
with one another

313
00:23:16,851 --> 00:23:17,101
and with the district attorney's

314
00:23:17,484 --> 00:23:17,734
office said that that

315
00:23:17,884 --> 00:23:18,134
information sharing is

316
00:23:22,284 --> 00:23:22,534
a lot easier and it happens

317
00:23:23,117 --> 00:23:23,367
outside of my courtroom in

318
00:23:24,517 --> 00:23:24,767
between those lawyers that

319
00:23:26,551 --> 00:23:26,801
they're able to make sure

320
00:23:28,251 --> 00:23:28,501
nothing's falling between the

321
00:23:29,051 --> 00:23:29,301
cracks and make sure those kids

322
00:23:30,784 --> 00:23:31,034
and families are getting all the

323
00:23:31,451 --> 00:23:31,701
attention that they need

324
00:23:38,617 --> 00:23:38,867
musteralhart you're recognized

325
00:23:39,317 --> 00:23:39,567
for a question

326
00:23:40,717 --> 00:23:40,967
your honornor's

327
00:23:43,251 --> 00:23:43,501
how has Leo's law impacted your

328
00:23:43,917 --> 00:23:44,167
court

329
00:23:53,017 --> 00:23:53,267
can't say that for Cleveland

330
00:23:54,517 --> 00:23:54,767
County I can't say that it has

331
00:23:56,484 --> 00:23:56,734
in in that great of a we are

332
00:23:58,284 --> 00:23:58,534
really really lucky in Cleveland

333
00:23:59,017 --> 00:23:59,267
County with the group of lawyers

334
00:24:00,784 --> 00:24:01,034
and kind of the court system

335
00:24:02,784 --> 00:24:03,034
that was in place before I took

336
00:24:05,017 --> 00:24:05,267
over the bench so I I can't

337
00:24:06,351 --> 00:24:06,601
say that that it has

338
00:24:06,817 --> 00:24:07,067
specifically

339
00:24:12,284 --> 00:24:12,534
Senator Hicks you're recognized

340
00:24:12,951 --> 00:24:13,201
for your next speaker on the

341
00:24:13,584 --> 00:24:13,834
agenda.

342
00:24:16,284 --> 00:24:16,534
thank you so much Mr Chair and

343
00:24:17,051 --> 00:24:17,301
thank you judgedge conyers for

344
00:24:18,817 --> 00:24:19,067
joining us today. I apologize

345
00:24:20,784 --> 00:24:21,034
that I got Cleveland County

346
00:24:24,284 --> 00:24:24,534
confused but with that it's the

347
00:24:26,284 --> 00:24:26,534
perfect segue into our next

348
00:24:28,817 --> 00:24:29,067
presenter the honorableharron

349
00:24:30,551 --> 00:24:30,801
Byer who is the special judged

350
00:24:32,784 --> 00:24:33,034
in judicial district seven here

351
00:24:33,417 --> 00:24:33,667
in Oklahoma County.

352
00:24:34,851 --> 00:24:35,101
thank you

353
00:24:39,017 --> 00:24:39,267
I'm Sharon Byeers I'm a special

354
00:24:40,717 --> 00:24:40,967
district judged in Oklahoma

355
00:24:42,784 --> 00:24:43,034
County. I sit on the family and

356
00:24:46,751 --> 00:24:47,001
domestic floor. so unlike Judge

357
00:24:48,784 --> 00:24:49,034
conyers, I don't deal with cases

358
00:24:52,717 --> 00:24:52,967
that are in deprived actions

359
00:24:54,517 --> 00:24:54,767
ideal all in family law court

360
00:24:58,551 --> 00:24:58,801
so divorce paternity and then

361
00:25:00,784 --> 00:25:01,034
modifications of those orders

362
00:25:04,817 --> 00:25:05,067
we're very fortunate that we

363
00:25:06,817 --> 00:25:07,067
have a state statute that deals

364
00:25:09,051 --> 00:25:09,301
with supervised visitation we do

365
00:25:14,284 --> 00:25:14,534
initle43 section 110.1a and the

366
00:25:15,017 --> 00:25:15,267
legislature has set out

367
00:25:18,551 --> 00:25:18,801
some guidelines for us that I

368
00:25:19,217 --> 00:25:19,467
don't know that

369
00:25:22,284 --> 00:25:22,534
that they have in juvenile

370
00:25:22,884 --> 00:25:23,134
court. I have not

371
00:25:26,517 --> 00:25:26,767
haven't really practiced in

372
00:25:27,251 --> 00:25:27,501
juvenile court nor have I been a

373
00:25:29,017 --> 00:25:29,267
judge in juvenile court but we

374
00:25:32,251 --> 00:25:32,501
do have a supervised visitation

375
00:25:34,517 --> 00:25:34,767
program by statute that is run

376
00:25:36,551 --> 00:25:36,801
by the associate district judged

377
00:25:38,517 --> 00:25:38,767
for the county who happens to be

378
00:25:40,284 --> 00:25:40,534
here with me today uhjudge

379
00:25:42,384 --> 00:25:42,634
Singleton and she has developed

380
00:25:48,734 --> 00:25:48,984
practices to comply with the

381
00:25:49,151 --> 00:25:49,401
statute so we have

382
00:25:54,251 --> 00:25:54,501
unfortunately when you get into

383
00:25:54,984 --> 00:25:55,234
family court, we do not have a

384
00:25:56,751 --> 00:25:57,001
lot of the services that are

385
00:25:59,017 --> 00:25:59,267
available for children who are

386
00:26:02,317 --> 00:26:02,567
in DHS custody and so we have to

387
00:26:02,984 --> 00:26:03,234
rely upon

388
00:26:03,251 --> 00:26:03,501
other

389
00:26:06,317 --> 00:26:06,567
things

390
00:26:06,567 --> 00:26:06,817
and

391
00:26:10,351 --> 00:26:10,601
we don't get DHS services now we

392
00:26:11,017 --> 00:26:11,267
will have

393
00:26:14,251 --> 00:26:14,501
we can get reports from DHS what

394
00:26:14,984 --> 00:26:15,234
happened if the children

395
00:26:16,751 --> 00:26:17,001
happened to be in the deprived

396
00:26:18,517 --> 00:26:18,767
action and then once that is

397
00:26:19,117 --> 00:26:19,367
dismissed they'll come into

398
00:26:19,651 --> 00:26:19,901
family court

399
00:26:22,784 --> 00:26:23,034
and so we can get that

400
00:26:24,751 --> 00:26:25,001
information but we don't have

401
00:26:26,284 --> 00:26:26,534
those services available. I

402
00:26:26,917 --> 00:26:27,167
think that's probably part of

403
00:26:28,517 --> 00:26:28,767
the reason why the legislature

404
00:26:30,517 --> 00:26:30,767
and developed a supervised

405
00:26:34,784 --> 00:26:35,034
visitation program and so we

406
00:26:36,517 --> 00:26:36,767
have people who can volunteer as

407
00:26:37,284 --> 00:26:37,534
supervisors after they go

408
00:26:38,751 --> 00:26:39,001
through a background check and

409
00:26:40,784 --> 00:26:41,034
fill out an application we can

410
00:26:41,484 --> 00:26:41,734
develop a team which we have

411
00:26:44,951 --> 00:26:45,201
started to do in Oklahoma County

412
00:26:48,717 --> 00:26:48,967
and to develop protocol and

413
00:26:50,517 --> 00:26:50,767
training and various things so

414
00:26:52,517 --> 00:26:52,767
that we keep our kids as safe as

415
00:26:54,984 --> 00:26:55,234
we possibly can under the

416
00:26:56,517 --> 00:26:56,767
time that they are in

417
00:26:56,951 --> 00:26:57,201
supervision

418
00:26:58,684 --> 00:26:58,934
so

419
00:27:00,817 --> 00:27:01,067
I don't know if you want me to

420
00:27:02,351 --> 00:27:02,601
say some more or if you have any

421
00:27:03,017 --> 00:27:03,267
questions

422
00:27:08,251 --> 00:27:08,501
Sener heck should recognize

423
00:27:09,051 --> 00:27:09,301
thank you Mr Chair. will you

424
00:27:11,251 --> 00:27:11,501
read the statute just so that

425
00:27:11,917 --> 00:27:12,167
we have that in the record.

426
00:27:12,884 --> 00:27:13,134
the entire statute

427
00:27:16,484 --> 00:27:16,734
for follow up

428
00:27:20,784 --> 00:27:21,034
we do have a submitted so I mean

429
00:27:22,784 --> 00:27:23,034
it's it can be just put into

430
00:27:23,417 --> 00:27:23,667
exhibit we don't have to read it

431
00:27:25,284 --> 00:27:25,534
in its entirety perfect I

432
00:27:25,817 --> 00:27:26,067
think

433
00:27:28,784 --> 00:27:29,034
more intentionally would you

434
00:27:30,451 --> 00:27:30,701
speak to the part that is

435
00:27:32,251 --> 00:27:32,501
allowed Oklahoma County to be

436
00:27:32,984 --> 00:27:33,234
able to develop the team

437
00:27:34,517 --> 00:27:34,767
situations that you're that you

438
00:27:35,184 --> 00:27:35,434
all are working on

439
00:27:39,017 --> 00:27:39,267
well inokklahoma County we have5

440
00:27:40,984 --> 00:27:41,234
judges who are assigned to the

441
00:27:43,051 --> 00:27:43,301
family and domestic division and

442
00:27:44,984 --> 00:27:45,234
so Judge Singleton got us

443
00:27:48,251 --> 00:27:48,501
together and talked to us about

444
00:27:50,484 --> 00:27:50,734
developing a team and then we

445
00:27:52,784 --> 00:27:53,034
could create some subcommittees

446
00:27:54,517 --> 00:27:54,767
to start working on the various

447
00:27:58,284 --> 00:27:58,534
aspects of getting together

448
00:28:02,517 --> 00:28:02,767
training and a manual for best

449
00:28:04,751 --> 00:28:05,001
practices and various thingsrior

450
00:28:05,417 --> 00:28:05,667
to that judgedge

451
00:28:06,384 --> 00:28:06,634
Singleton was

452
00:28:08,784 --> 00:28:09,034
singlehandedly

453
00:28:12,284 --> 00:28:12,534
sending you know sending out

454
00:28:12,884 --> 00:28:13,134
applications for people who are

455
00:28:14,951 --> 00:28:15,201
interested getting them to get

456
00:28:16,717 --> 00:28:16,967
their background checks and

457
00:28:17,284 --> 00:28:17,534
going through

458
00:28:20,784 --> 00:28:21,034
the qualifications and then

459
00:28:22,251 --> 00:28:22,501
creating a list so we have a

460
00:28:23,017 --> 00:28:23,267
list in Oklahoma County of the

461
00:28:24,784 --> 00:28:25,034
people who have been qualified

462
00:28:26,384 --> 00:28:26,634
to serve as supervisors

463
00:28:30,351 --> 00:28:30,601
but we are actively pursuing

464
00:28:33,084 --> 00:28:33,334
other avenues to make it better

465
00:28:36,351 --> 00:28:36,601
Did I answer your question

466
00:28:38,951 --> 00:28:39,201
I think one thing that

467
00:28:40,717 --> 00:28:40,967
makes it

468
00:28:44,517 --> 00:28:44,767
easier for Oklahoma County is

469
00:28:46,517 --> 00:28:46,767
the population and the number of

470
00:28:48,851 --> 00:28:49,101
people I think unfortunately

471
00:28:49,517 --> 00:28:49,767
when you

472
00:28:52,484 --> 00:28:52,734
get to other counties that have

473
00:28:54,517 --> 00:28:54,767
a smaller population less

474
00:28:56,284 --> 00:28:56,534
judges, less service providers I

475
00:28:56,951 --> 00:28:57,201
mean we're very fortunate in

476
00:28:58,984 --> 00:28:59,234
Oklahoma County that we have

477
00:29:00,984 --> 00:29:01,234
there's a supervised visitation

478
00:29:02,751 --> 00:29:03,001
facility people who are

479
00:29:04,751 --> 00:29:05,001
interested in doing supervision

480
00:29:06,984 --> 00:29:07,234
and places in public that those

481
00:29:09,017 --> 00:29:09,267
can actually take place so we

482
00:29:12,284 --> 00:29:12,534
have the manpower to do some

483
00:29:13,017 --> 00:29:13,267
really great things and to

484
00:29:15,017 --> 00:29:15,267
comply with the statute that may

485
00:29:18,784 --> 00:29:19,034
not be available to other places

486
00:29:19,484 --> 00:29:19,734
where the population is

487
00:29:21,151 --> 00:29:21,401
less

488
00:29:26,384 --> 00:29:26,634
Judge, thank you for being here

489
00:29:27,051 --> 00:29:27,301
today

490
00:29:28,984 --> 00:29:29,234
on these so in the family law

491
00:29:32,251 --> 00:29:32,501
cases those that you see are the

492
00:29:34,251 --> 00:29:34,501
supervised visitations the

493
00:29:34,817 --> 00:29:35,067
result of judged's own

494
00:29:38,251 --> 00:29:38,501
review or does that to be

495
00:29:38,851 --> 00:29:39,101
brought forward by one of the

496
00:29:40,784 --> 00:29:41,034
parties to the the matter is it

497
00:29:43,051 --> 00:29:43,301
a recommendation by DHS is there

498
00:29:44,517 --> 00:29:44,767
quarter appointed special

499
00:29:46,284 --> 00:29:46,534
advocates that come in and

500
00:29:47,051 --> 00:29:47,301
initially recommend this how

501
00:29:48,351 --> 00:29:48,601
does it how does it get

502
00:29:48,917 --> 00:29:49,167
initiated?

503
00:29:52,751 --> 00:29:53,001
we don't have DHS in our courts

504
00:29:53,451 --> 00:29:53,701
and we don't have court

505
00:29:54,984 --> 00:29:55,234
appointed special advocates

506
00:29:58,484 --> 00:29:58,734
those are all in juvenile courts

507
00:30:00,251 --> 00:30:00,501
so it usually comes to our

508
00:30:00,851 --> 00:30:01,101
attention by a parent filing

509
00:30:01,484 --> 00:30:01,734
something

510
00:30:04,784 --> 00:30:05,034
whether that's an application

511
00:30:06,484 --> 00:30:06,734
for an emergency custody order

512
00:30:07,251 --> 00:30:07,501
or at the beginning of a case

513
00:30:07,917 --> 00:30:08,167
before you

514
00:30:12,251 --> 00:30:12,501
get fully into it parties can

515
00:30:13,017 --> 00:30:13,267
ask for a temporary order

516
00:30:14,551 --> 00:30:14,801
hearing which is exactly what it

517
00:30:15,184 --> 00:30:15,434
sounds like that's a temporary

518
00:30:16,784 --> 00:30:17,034
order that's in place until you

519
00:30:20,517 --> 00:30:20,767
can do discovery and get to to

520
00:30:22,251 --> 00:30:22,501
the final order so they'll

521
00:30:22,884 --> 00:30:23,134
oftentimes come in on a

522
00:30:23,451 --> 00:30:23,701
temporary order hearing

523
00:30:26,984 --> 00:30:27,234
very early on in the case and

524
00:30:30,484 --> 00:30:30,734
then either parents will ask for

525
00:30:32,517 --> 00:30:32,767
supervised visitation or as a

526
00:30:33,217 --> 00:30:33,467
judge you're hearing what the

527
00:30:34,951 --> 00:30:35,201
issues are and the things going

528
00:30:36,351 --> 00:30:36,601
on and at that point

529
00:30:40,251 --> 00:30:40,501
you will order I'll order

530
00:30:42,251 --> 00:30:42,501
supervised visitation. It

531
00:30:43,051 --> 00:30:43,301
usually comes along with the

532
00:30:44,751 --> 00:30:45,001
appointment of a guardian ad

533
00:30:46,751 --> 00:30:47,001
litem so we since we don't have

534
00:30:48,517 --> 00:30:48,767
casa and we can appoint

535
00:30:50,784 --> 00:30:51,034
guardians ad litem to come in

536
00:30:52,484 --> 00:30:52,734
and help with an investigation

537
00:30:54,251 --> 00:30:54,501
and so we'll do supervised

538
00:30:56,251 --> 00:30:56,501
visitation while we're doing an

539
00:30:58,284 --> 00:30:58,534
investigation to ensure the

540
00:30:59,017 --> 00:30:59,267
safety of children and just like

541
00:31:00,784 --> 00:31:01,034
judgedge conyers the more

542
00:31:02,984 --> 00:31:03,234
information I can have the

543
00:31:05,017 --> 00:31:05,267
better. I want information from

544
00:31:06,517 --> 00:31:06,767
all sources if there's prior

545
00:31:07,184 --> 00:31:07,434
juvenile

546
00:31:10,517 --> 00:31:10,767
contacts, I want the information

547
00:31:12,884 --> 00:31:13,134
from the juvenile court. I want

548
00:31:13,551 --> 00:31:13,801
we oftentimes have

549
00:31:16,751 --> 00:31:17,001
workers from DHS come in and

550
00:31:18,517 --> 00:31:18,767
testify about their previous

551
00:31:20,251 --> 00:31:20,501
investigation and various things

552
00:31:20,984 --> 00:31:21,234
of that nature so that we know

553
00:31:21,651 --> 00:31:21,901
that we're

554
00:31:24,484 --> 00:31:24,734
protecting children as much as

555
00:31:25,151 --> 00:31:25,401
we can.

556
00:31:32,284 --> 00:31:32,534
I imagine most of the family law

557
00:31:34,284 --> 00:31:34,534
cases become very adversarial.

558
00:31:36,717 --> 00:31:36,967
do you see that the process gets

559
00:31:42,284 --> 00:31:42,534
overused or bludgeons used as

560
00:31:44,284 --> 00:31:44,534
a bludgeon to make

561
00:31:44,984 --> 00:31:45,234
allegations that then have to be

562
00:31:48,251 --> 00:31:48,501
substantiated or do you think

563
00:31:50,251 --> 00:31:50,501
that most of this is really just

564
00:31:50,984 --> 00:31:51,234
in the best interest of children

565
00:31:52,617 --> 00:31:52,867
as it gets brought forward to

566
00:31:53,284 --> 00:31:53,534
you by one of the parties

567
00:32:00,251 --> 00:32:00,501
I think that's a hard question

568
00:32:02,717 --> 00:32:02,967
to answer it's very

569
00:32:03,117 --> 00:32:03,367
adversarial yes

570
00:32:06,284 --> 00:32:06,534
but

571
00:32:08,517 --> 00:32:08,767
the safety of children is of

572
00:32:10,484 --> 00:32:10,734
utmost importance so if we have

573
00:32:12,284 --> 00:32:12,534
to have some supervised

574
00:32:14,284 --> 00:32:14,534
visitation while we're

575
00:32:16,251 --> 00:32:16,501
investigating it. I would rather

576
00:32:16,951 --> 00:32:17,201
be safe than sorry. I'd rather

577
00:32:18,351 --> 00:32:18,601
the children be protected

578
00:32:22,517 --> 00:32:22,767
so I wouldn't say that it's

579
00:32:24,817 --> 00:32:25,067
overused. I mean is there a time

580
00:32:25,484 --> 00:32:25,734
that

581
00:32:28,751 --> 00:32:29,001
sometimes that people abuse the

582
00:32:29,417 --> 00:32:29,667
system

583
00:32:29,667 --> 00:32:29,917
sure

584
00:32:33,117 --> 00:32:33,367
I don't think that that is the

585
00:32:33,784 --> 00:32:34,034
norm

586
00:32:34,684 --> 00:32:34,934
I think

587
00:32:40,284 --> 00:32:40,534
oftentimes people will come

588
00:32:40,951 --> 00:32:41,201
before me and they're just

589
00:32:42,517 --> 00:32:42,767
talking about the daily lives

590
00:32:44,284 --> 00:32:44,534
and things that happen and they

591
00:32:45,017 --> 00:32:45,267
haven't asked for supervised

592
00:32:48,284 --> 00:32:48,534
visitation but the things that

593
00:32:48,984 --> 00:32:49,234
they're telling me that they

594
00:32:52,284 --> 00:32:52,534
think are normal are telling me

595
00:32:53,284 --> 00:32:53,534
that there's a safety risk here

596
00:32:53,951 --> 00:32:54,201
and

597
00:32:56,884 --> 00:32:57,134
maybe not all parents recognize

598
00:33:00,984 --> 00:33:01,234
the safety risk because they're

599
00:33:01,717 --> 00:33:01,967
so far into

600
00:33:06,284 --> 00:33:06,534
whatever's happening that that

601
00:33:06,951 --> 00:33:07,201
has become their norm so

602
00:33:11,051 --> 00:33:11,301
I feel like I see that more than

603
00:33:12,351 --> 00:33:12,601
you people using it as a

604
00:33:12,951 --> 00:33:13,201
weapon

605
00:33:16,951 --> 00:33:17,201
en er hicks

606
00:33:22,251 --> 00:33:22,501
thank you Mr Chair and so on on

607
00:33:23,017 --> 00:33:23,267
the team that you guys are

608
00:33:25,017 --> 00:33:25,267
developing are there child

609
00:33:27,217 --> 00:33:27,467
development experts that are

610
00:33:30,284 --> 00:33:30,534
present or that are our lending

611
00:33:34,284 --> 00:33:34,534
expertise on the impact to the

612
00:33:36,517 --> 00:33:36,767
children based on the court's

613
00:33:37,117 --> 00:33:37,367
recommendations or the court's

614
00:33:37,784 --> 00:33:38,034
orders

615
00:33:42,251 --> 00:33:42,501
we are inviting those people in

616
00:33:42,917 --> 00:33:43,167
that's what the statute

617
00:33:46,251 --> 00:33:46,501
provides for that they can sit

618
00:33:48,517 --> 00:33:48,767
on those teams so we have an

619
00:33:50,251 --> 00:33:50,501
informational meeting coming up

620
00:33:51,251 --> 00:33:51,501
and then we were going to invite

621
00:33:51,884 --> 00:33:52,134
more and more people into it

622
00:33:57,151 --> 00:33:57,401
one final question from the

623
00:33:58,851 --> 00:33:59,101
chair unless there's others from

624
00:34:00,851 --> 00:34:01,101
the committee and this is for

625
00:34:02,551 --> 00:34:02,801
you judged as well as Judge

626
00:34:03,217 --> 00:34:03,467
conyers if she wants to come

627
00:34:04,517 --> 00:34:04,767
back are there policy

628
00:34:06,551 --> 00:34:06,801
recommendations that you see

629
00:34:08,284 --> 00:34:08,534
being the ones that implement

630
00:34:09,117 --> 00:34:09,367
this at the trial judge level

631
00:34:09,784 --> 00:34:10,034
that the legislature needs to

632
00:34:10,451 --> 00:34:10,701
look at

633
00:34:14,284 --> 00:34:14,534
for streamlining and or further

634
00:34:14,951 --> 00:34:15,201
protection of children that are

635
00:34:17,084 --> 00:34:17,334
in supervised or should be in

636
00:34:17,784 --> 00:34:18,034
supervised sup

637
00:34:19,017 --> 00:34:19,267
visitation programs

638
00:34:23,051 --> 00:34:23,301
are you asking me if I have

639
00:34:23,617 --> 00:34:23,867
policy recommendations today

640
00:34:28,284 --> 00:34:28,534
or would be able to develop some

641
00:34:28,951 --> 00:34:29,201
you or Judge conyers

642
00:34:32,517 --> 00:34:32,767
think we would be happy to

643
00:34:34,251 --> 00:34:34,501
develop policy recommendations

644
00:34:34,984 --> 00:34:35,234
with the team. I didn't bring

645
00:34:35,684 --> 00:34:35,934
any with me today but

646
00:34:40,284 --> 00:34:40,534
I'm happy to reach back out and

647
00:34:41,051 --> 00:34:41,301
with any policy recommendations

648
00:34:46,517 --> 00:34:46,767
en ator Hicks on to the next

649
00:34:50,517 --> 00:34:50,767
thank you Mr Chair and thank you

650
00:34:53,017 --> 00:34:53,267
so much to both of you all for

651
00:34:54,751 --> 00:34:55,001
lending your time I know that

652
00:34:56,517 --> 00:34:56,767
there were some dockets that had

653
00:34:57,217 --> 00:34:57,467
to be moved around and so I

654
00:34:58,784 --> 00:34:59,034
really appreciate you all

655
00:35:00,751 --> 00:35:01,001
spending time with us today as

656
00:35:02,984 --> 00:35:03,234
we maybe just me learn

657
00:35:06,284 --> 00:35:06,534
more about the judicial side of

658
00:35:08,551 --> 00:35:08,801
this very important issue and

659
00:35:10,284 --> 00:35:10,534
next we have Megannorurk

660
00:35:12,551 --> 00:35:12,801
who's the deputy deputy director

661
00:35:14,351 --> 00:35:14,601
of child welfare programs from

662
00:35:15,017 --> 00:35:15,267
DHS.

663
00:35:20,784 --> 00:35:21,034
ed's on correct? OK I did

664
00:35:22,517 --> 00:35:22,767
have some slides I don't know if

665
00:35:23,184 --> 00:35:23,434
we wanted to pull those up or

666
00:35:24,651 --> 00:35:24,901
it's ok if not

667
00:35:52,251 --> 00:35:52,501
we had 3 that were sent in and

668
00:35:52,951 --> 00:35:53,201
that was this office of

669
00:35:54,517 --> 00:35:54,767
familymily representation the

670
00:35:55,184 --> 00:35:55,434
attorney general's office and

671
00:35:56,984 --> 00:35:57,234
YWCA no problem did you have

672
00:35:58,951 --> 00:35:59,201
others those are not it's ok we

673
00:35:59,617 --> 00:35:59,867
will pivot

674
00:36:01,051 --> 00:36:01,301
right we may proceed

675
00:36:06,517 --> 00:36:06,767
again thank you for having us

676
00:36:08,484 --> 00:36:08,734
and inviting DHS to the table

677
00:36:10,484 --> 00:36:10,734
today to talk about this topic

678
00:36:12,317 --> 00:36:12,567
I just want to reiterate the

679
00:36:12,884 --> 00:36:13,134
information I'm here to share

680
00:36:15,017 --> 00:36:15,267
today share today pertains to

681
00:36:18,317 --> 00:36:18,567
children who are removed have

682
00:36:20,551 --> 00:36:20,801
been placed in DHS custody or

683
00:36:22,284 --> 00:36:22,534
have come to the attention of

684
00:36:23,017 --> 00:36:23,267
the department as needing some

685
00:36:24,517 --> 00:36:24,767
sort of intervention whether

686
00:36:27,051 --> 00:36:27,301
that's prevention services or

687
00:36:27,717 --> 00:36:27,967
supervision cases

688
00:36:32,251 --> 00:36:32,501
to start off with family time

689
00:36:34,751 --> 00:36:35,001
is definitely a right of the

690
00:36:36,784 --> 00:36:37,034
child and the family

691
00:36:40,317 --> 00:36:40,567
heritleinny statute the DHS

692
00:36:42,517 --> 00:36:42,767
is responsible for implementing

693
00:36:44,784 --> 00:36:45,034
a family time plan within se

694
00:36:48,717 --> 00:36:48,967
days of removal within those

695
00:36:52,284 --> 00:36:52,534
1st 90 days at minimum a visit

696
00:36:53,017 --> 00:36:53,267
occurs with the child and their

697
00:36:55,017 --> 00:36:55,267
family one time per week the

698
00:36:57,051 --> 00:36:57,301
frequency of that is definitely

699
00:36:57,651 --> 00:36:57,901
subject to change pending

700
00:37:00,351 --> 00:37:00,601
any court orders and things of

701
00:37:01,017 --> 00:37:01,267
that nature.

702
00:37:04,517 --> 00:37:04,767
after 90 days those visits go to

703
00:37:06,751 --> 00:37:07,001
a minimum of two visits each

704
00:37:08,284 --> 00:37:08,534
month but again there's

705
00:37:10,284 --> 00:37:10,534
always exceptions for frequency

706
00:37:12,284 --> 00:37:12,534
that could be the parent

707
00:37:14,517 --> 00:37:14,767
doesn't isn't participating or

708
00:37:16,784 --> 00:37:17,034
unable to locate that parent

709
00:37:18,551 --> 00:37:18,801
there could be a court order

710
00:37:20,317 --> 00:37:20,567
potentially impacting family

711
00:37:22,784 --> 00:37:23,034
time it could be in the

712
00:37:24,784 --> 00:37:25,034
child's safety or best interests

713
00:37:28,517 --> 00:37:28,767
to have a redi reduction in

714
00:37:30,551 --> 00:37:30,801
family time or even an increase

715
00:37:31,217 --> 00:37:31,467
a lot of times our infant

716
00:37:33,017 --> 00:37:33,267
s when they're removed right

717
00:37:36,251 --> 00:37:36,501
after birth we do see

718
00:37:36,984 --> 00:37:37,234
increase in family time for that

719
00:37:40,284 --> 00:37:40,534
bonding with the parent if

720
00:37:41,017 --> 00:37:41,267
the permanency plan is different

721
00:37:44,517 --> 00:37:44,767
than reunification that too can

722
00:37:46,284 --> 00:37:46,534
impact the frequency of family

723
00:37:48,284 --> 00:37:48,534
time meaning if we have a case

724
00:37:49,051 --> 00:37:49,301
that comes to our attention

725
00:37:50,517 --> 00:37:50,767
and it's shocking and heinous

726
00:37:52,517 --> 00:37:52,767
and the DA is seeking

727
00:37:54,284 --> 00:37:54,534
straight termination that could

728
00:37:54,917 --> 00:37:55,167
also impact frequency of family

729
00:37:55,584 --> 00:37:55,834
time.

730
00:37:58,517 --> 00:37:58,767
I think it's important to

731
00:38:00,251 --> 00:38:00,501
note just kind of where we're at

732
00:38:02,251 --> 00:38:02,501
as a state you heard

733
00:38:04,284 --> 00:38:04,534
judgement mention family time

734
00:38:04,984 --> 00:38:05,234
we used to call it visitation

735
00:38:08,751 --> 00:38:09,001
and in2020 we had DHS

736
00:38:10,951 --> 00:38:11,201
leadership actually seek out

737
00:38:14,251 --> 00:38:14,501
nationally and talked to a judge

738
00:38:16,284 --> 00:38:16,534
in Georgia and they

739
00:38:18,284 --> 00:38:18,534
reimplemented the way that they

740
00:38:18,984 --> 00:38:19,234
think about visits when you

741
00:38:20,517 --> 00:38:20,767
think about visits maybe you

742
00:38:22,517 --> 00:38:22,767
think about a hospital setting

743
00:38:24,251 --> 00:38:24,501
you think about prison things of

744
00:38:24,984 --> 00:38:25,234
that nature. familymily time

745
00:38:25,551 --> 00:38:25,801
should encompass

746
00:38:28,251 --> 00:38:28,501
a special moment between a

747
00:38:30,251 --> 00:38:30,501
parent and a child to really

748
00:38:32,251 --> 00:38:32,501
emphasize that bonding and so

749
00:38:33,284 --> 00:38:33,534
the state of Oklahoma decided to

750
00:38:34,751 --> 00:38:35,001
rebrand. we shifted from

751
00:38:36,751 --> 00:38:37,001
visitation to family time and

752
00:38:38,717 --> 00:38:38,967
our court partners you know

753
00:38:40,784 --> 00:38:41,034
other community folks have

754
00:38:42,517 --> 00:38:42,767
definitely come on board with us

755
00:38:43,217 --> 00:38:43,467
in this shift

756
00:38:46,551 --> 00:38:46,801
family time can impact the

757
00:38:47,184 --> 00:38:47,434
child's wellbeing. it's

758
00:38:48,751 --> 00:38:49,001
essential to their immediate and

759
00:38:52,251 --> 00:38:52,501
long term connection when you

760
00:38:53,017 --> 00:38:53,267
think about connecting with

761
00:38:54,784 --> 00:38:55,034
their their siblings with

762
00:38:56,784 --> 00:38:57,034
their parents grandparents. I

763
00:38:58,251 --> 00:38:58,501
think the most important thing

764
00:39:00,251 --> 00:39:00,501
to note too about family time

765
00:39:01,017 --> 00:39:01,267
and is that it's driven by

766
00:39:04,751 --> 00:39:05,001
safety anytime we are looking

767
00:39:06,784 --> 00:39:07,034
for a different level in

768
00:39:08,784 --> 00:39:09,034
supervision. safety is our

769
00:39:10,551 --> 00:39:10,801
driving factor we're looking at

770
00:39:12,551 --> 00:39:12,801
parents' protective capacities

771
00:39:13,151 --> 00:39:13,401
what has changed since that

772
00:39:13,684 --> 00:39:13,934
time

773
00:39:16,784 --> 00:39:17,034
of removal are we seeing a

774
00:39:19,084 --> 00:39:19,334
correction and do we feel

775
00:39:20,517 --> 00:39:20,767
comfortable making that

776
00:39:20,984 --> 00:39:21,234
recommendation to the court for

777
00:39:22,984 --> 00:39:23,234
that next level of least

778
00:39:23,551 --> 00:39:23,801
restrictive family time.

779
00:39:26,784 --> 00:39:27,034
it's also important to note too

780
00:39:28,484 --> 00:39:28,734
that each family is an

781
00:39:30,517 --> 00:39:30,767
individualized family. It could

782
00:39:32,517 --> 00:39:32,767
look different from case to case

783
00:39:34,251 --> 00:39:34,501
while you might have two

784
00:39:36,517 --> 00:39:36,767
families removed for the same

785
00:39:38,251 --> 00:39:38,501
situation the dynamics are

786
00:39:40,251 --> 00:39:40,501
different. there's many case

787
00:39:41,284 --> 00:39:41,534
complexities that go into that

788
00:39:42,784 --> 00:39:43,034
and so each recommendation to

789
00:39:44,784 --> 00:39:45,034
the court for the level of

790
00:39:46,751 --> 00:39:47,001
family time should be thoughtful

791
00:39:48,851 --> 00:39:49,101
and based and sound safety

792
00:39:49,417 --> 00:39:49,667
decision making.

793
00:39:54,251 --> 00:39:54,501
so you heard our judgement

794
00:39:54,851 --> 00:39:55,101
the different levels of

795
00:39:56,984 --> 00:39:57,234
supervisioni too was going to

796
00:39:58,951 --> 00:39:59,201
go over that a little bit we

797
00:40:00,984 --> 00:40:01,234
do have a matrix I think our

798
00:40:02,951 --> 00:40:03,201
most important family time

799
00:40:04,717 --> 00:40:04,967
level to point out is

800
00:40:08,484 --> 00:40:08,734
therapeutic and that is the the

801
00:40:10,484 --> 00:40:10,734
most restrictive and therapeutic

802
00:40:12,484 --> 00:40:12,734
is really for those families or

803
00:40:13,217 --> 00:40:13,467
maybe the youth doesn't want to

804
00:40:16,251 --> 00:40:16,501
see their parents or there was

805
00:40:16,884 --> 00:40:17,134
something that happened at the

806
00:40:18,517 --> 00:40:18,767
time of removal that was very

807
00:40:19,217 --> 00:40:19,467
traumatic and we need a

808
00:40:19,751 --> 00:40:20,001
therapist

809
00:40:22,751 --> 00:40:23,001
present thank you thank you I'm

810
00:40:23,417 --> 00:40:23,667
sorry

811
00:40:26,551 --> 00:40:26,801
let me just go ahead and skip

812
00:40:28,317 --> 00:40:28,567
then to this matrix so you guys

813
00:40:28,984 --> 00:40:29,234
can see it

814
00:40:31,217 --> 00:40:31,467
it's very small. OK sorry

815
00:40:32,984 --> 00:40:33,234
about that. Well again this

816
00:40:35,017 --> 00:40:35,267
kind of walks backwards so from

817
00:40:36,784 --> 00:40:37,034
the right we're at therapeutic

818
00:40:38,751 --> 00:40:39,001
which is the most restrictive.

819
00:40:40,551 --> 00:40:40,801
this is where you have a

820
00:40:42,251 --> 00:40:42,501
therapist present. this is gene

821
00:40:44,284 --> 00:40:44,534
generally where you will see

822
00:40:46,284 --> 00:40:46,534
family counseling. we are

823
00:40:46,984 --> 00:40:47,234
following the recommendation of

824
00:40:50,751 --> 00:40:51,001
that child's therapist to

825
00:40:52,484 --> 00:40:52,734
really reintroduce that

826
00:40:54,284 --> 00:40:54,534
relationship with the parents.

827
00:40:56,284 --> 00:40:56,534
it's very rare that you might

828
00:40:58,351 --> 00:40:58,601
see therapeutic family time

829
00:40:58,884 --> 00:40:59,134
or counsel

830
00:41:02,284 --> 00:41:02,534
ing or family counseling just

831
00:41:03,017 --> 00:41:03,267
because it does have to be done

832
00:41:04,551 --> 00:41:04,801
by a professional

833
00:41:08,584 --> 00:41:08,834
you then have supervised again

834
00:41:09,284 --> 00:41:09,534
that's where someone is

835
00:41:10,751 --> 00:41:11,001
constantly watching the family

836
00:41:12,517 --> 00:41:12,767
they can hear what's going on,

837
00:41:14,517 --> 00:41:14,767
they can see what's going on.

838
00:41:16,751 --> 00:41:17,001
we have observed you have

839
00:41:18,984 --> 00:41:19,234
someone who can see but they

840
00:41:20,751 --> 00:41:21,001
might not be hearing everything

841
00:41:24,284 --> 00:41:24,534
so we are at a park and I can

842
00:41:26,284 --> 00:41:26,534
visually see what's occurring. I

843
00:41:26,984 --> 00:41:27,234
can't hear everything but I'm

844
00:41:28,751 --> 00:41:29,001
comfortable in knowing that that

845
00:41:30,484 --> 00:41:30,734
child is safe with that parent

846
00:41:32,317 --> 00:41:32,567
in that situation. you have a

847
00:41:34,517 --> 00:41:34,767
monitored so that could be where

848
00:41:35,184 --> 00:41:35,434
the monitor

849
00:41:37,217 --> 00:41:37,467
comes by the home, the child is

850
00:41:38,751 --> 00:41:39,001
brought to the parent's house

851
00:41:40,551 --> 00:41:40,801
the monitor stays for 30

852
00:41:44,284 --> 00:41:44,534
minutes.ing is fine arent has

853
00:41:44,984 --> 00:41:45,234
unsupervised time with that

854
00:41:48,251 --> 00:41:48,501
child for a brief period of time

855
00:41:48,984 --> 00:41:49,234
and then the monitor comes back

856
00:41:50,751 --> 00:41:51,001
and ensures everything is ok and

857
00:41:52,984 --> 00:41:53,234
then you have unsupervised

858
00:41:54,984 --> 00:41:55,234
and again that's where you can

859
00:41:57,017 --> 00:41:57,267
have overnights they take them

860
00:42:00,284 --> 00:42:00,534
for extended amounts of time and

861
00:42:02,284 --> 00:42:02,534
we have done a level of safety

862
00:42:04,517 --> 00:42:04,767
assessment at every supervision

863
00:42:05,184 --> 00:42:05,434
level to

864
00:42:06,751 --> 00:42:07,001
ensure that it is the most

865
00:42:07,317 --> 00:42:07,567
appropriate for that child

866
00:42:11,017 --> 00:42:11,267
so you heard me mention monitor

867
00:42:12,751 --> 00:42:13,001
and so I just kind of wanted

868
00:42:15,017 --> 00:42:15,267
to go over this a little bit a a

869
00:42:17,017 --> 00:42:17,267
monitor could be a family member

870
00:42:19,251 --> 00:42:19,501
someone who knows the family

871
00:42:22,284 --> 00:42:22,534
who we trust they can

872
00:42:24,251 --> 00:42:24,501
recognize what a safety threat

873
00:42:26,251 --> 00:42:26,501
is. they know the reason why the

874
00:42:28,251 --> 00:42:28,501
children came into care they

875
00:42:28,884 --> 00:42:29,134
feel comfortable with

876
00:42:30,984 --> 00:42:31,234
intervening if something does

877
00:42:34,284 --> 00:42:34,534
come up within that time they

878
00:42:35,017 --> 00:42:35,267
know how to manage that they are

879
00:42:37,051 --> 00:42:37,301
a trusted partner generally this

880
00:42:37,717 --> 00:42:37,967
would be someone who comes to

881
00:42:38,384 --> 00:42:38,634
our family meeting

882
00:42:40,984 --> 00:42:41,234
s who knows about the case plan,

883
00:42:44,251 --> 00:42:44,501
case progression, what we're

884
00:42:46,517 --> 00:42:46,767
asking from the parent to get to

885
00:42:48,484 --> 00:42:48,734
the point of reunification. They

886
00:42:50,284 --> 00:42:50,534
are a partner at the table

887
00:42:50,984 --> 00:42:51,234
and very aware of everything

888
00:42:52,751 --> 00:42:53,001
that's going on with the case.

889
00:42:54,751 --> 00:42:55,001
They also have to have their

890
00:42:56,717 --> 00:42:56,967
background screened we have

891
00:42:58,951 --> 00:42:59,201
their child welfare checks we

892
00:43:01,184 --> 00:43:01,434
have a background check done. we

893
00:43:03,017 --> 00:43:03,267
know that we trust this person

894
00:43:05,017 --> 00:43:05,267
to help us monitor the family

895
00:43:05,684 --> 00:43:05,934
time

896
00:43:08,517 --> 00:43:08,767
and they also support the

897
00:43:10,484 --> 00:43:10,734
parents. We want to monitor that

898
00:43:12,284 --> 00:43:12,534
can give coaching and feedback

899
00:43:14,251 --> 00:43:14,501
in a safe environment so that

900
00:43:16,484 --> 00:43:16,734
the parent knows behaviors and

901
00:43:17,117 --> 00:43:17,367
things like that that maybe they

902
00:43:18,951 --> 00:43:19,201
could improve upon for the next

903
00:43:19,651 --> 00:43:19,901
family time setting

904
00:43:24,251 --> 00:43:24,501
I did do a s a slide

905
00:43:26,251 --> 00:43:26,501
specifically over therapeutic

906
00:43:27,017 --> 00:43:27,267
family time cause I did notice

907
00:43:28,551 --> 00:43:28,801
this was on the agenda and I

908
00:43:30,517 --> 00:43:30,767
just wanted to point out that it

909
00:43:32,251 --> 00:43:32,501
is with a professional or

910
00:43:34,784 --> 00:43:35,034
clinical therapeutic

911
00:43:36,751 --> 00:43:37,001
expertise who's supervising play

912
00:43:38,784 --> 00:43:39,034
therapy, family counseling

913
00:43:39,317 --> 00:43:39,567
that's where you're going to see

914
00:43:42,251 --> 00:43:42,501
this. this is all dependent

915
00:43:44,484 --> 00:43:44,734
on capacity I think you

916
00:43:46,251 --> 00:43:46,501
mentioned rural so I think it

917
00:43:48,751 --> 00:43:49,001
just depends on what services

918
00:43:50,517 --> 00:43:50,767
are available in that county

919
00:43:54,251 --> 00:43:54,501
where they have the ability to

920
00:43:54,917 --> 00:43:55,167
also do therapeutic family time.

921
00:43:58,884 --> 00:43:59,134
and that is all I have any

922
00:43:59,417 --> 00:43:59,667
questions?

923
00:44:02,317 --> 00:44:02,567
you recognized for your question

924
00:44:06,484 --> 00:44:06,734
thank you Mr Chair. so on the

925
00:44:08,451 --> 00:44:08,701
designation of monitor. what is

926
00:44:10,717 --> 00:44:10,967
that the standard iss there

927
00:44:12,484 --> 00:44:12,734
training support guidance help

928
00:44:14,517 --> 00:44:14,767
me understand if if someone's

929
00:44:16,251 --> 00:44:16,501
entrusted to monitor a

930
00:44:18,717 --> 00:44:18,967
supervised visitation what does

931
00:44:20,984 --> 00:44:21,234
DHS except as a responsibility

932
00:44:23,151 --> 00:44:23,401
to prepare that monitor for yes

933
00:44:24,984 --> 00:44:25,234
for children in care when we're

934
00:44:28,284 --> 00:44:28,534
looking for a monitor. this

935
00:44:30,251 --> 00:44:30,501
is typically a family member if

936
00:44:32,251 --> 00:44:32,501
we're trying to have more

937
00:44:32,784 --> 00:44:33,034
frequent family time generally

938
00:44:34,751 --> 00:44:35,001
the place that we want to look

939
00:44:36,251 --> 00:44:36,501
to first are the parents

940
00:44:38,251 --> 00:44:38,501
supports so it could be a family

941
00:44:38,984 --> 00:44:39,234
member or neighbor or someone

942
00:44:40,717 --> 00:44:40,967
like that we need to have

943
00:44:42,551 --> 00:44:42,801
someone who understands what the

944
00:44:44,284 --> 00:44:44,534
safety threat was if they're not

945
00:44:44,984 --> 00:44:45,234
acknowledging that there could

946
00:44:48,284 --> 00:44:48,534
potentially be another

947
00:44:48,751 --> 00:44:49,001
instance or something like that

948
00:44:50,551 --> 00:44:50,801
that's something we're going to

949
00:44:52,751 --> 00:44:53,001
take into consideration.

950
00:44:54,517 --> 00:44:54,767
there's not training per se

951
00:44:56,517 --> 00:44:56,767
however, when we are developing

952
00:44:58,284 --> 00:44:58,534
a family time plan roles and

953
00:45:00,784 --> 00:45:01,034
responsibilities are listed out

954
00:45:02,584 --> 00:45:02,834
in that family time plan and so

955
00:45:03,284 --> 00:45:03,534
that monitor should walk away

956
00:45:06,284 --> 00:45:06,534
fully understanding what their

957
00:45:08,284 --> 00:45:08,534
role is in family time and what

958
00:45:08,984 --> 00:45:09,234
to do if something were to

959
00:45:12,751 --> 00:45:13,001
happen it's a team effort so

960
00:45:15,017 --> 00:45:15,267
we have family time or family

961
00:45:18,284 --> 00:45:18,534
meetings every60 to 90 days we

962
00:45:18,984 --> 00:45:19,234
should be reviewing that family

963
00:45:21,017 --> 00:45:21,267
time plan at every family

964
00:45:22,984 --> 00:45:23,234
meeting so if something needs to

965
00:45:24,517 --> 00:45:24,767
be changed if we need to look at

966
00:45:26,517 --> 00:45:26,767
the level of supervision if we

967
00:45:28,284 --> 00:45:28,534
have a different recommendation

968
00:45:30,517 --> 00:45:30,767
that whole team is discussing it

969
00:45:32,584 --> 00:45:32,834
in that moment. perfect time for

970
00:45:33,251 --> 00:45:33,501
the monitor to say hey

971
00:45:36,751 --> 00:45:37,001
I need some help or can you

972
00:45:38,484 --> 00:45:38,734
please help guide me on

973
00:45:40,284 --> 00:45:40,534
something else and then that

974
00:45:40,851 --> 00:45:41,101
team can support that monitor

975
00:45:41,517 --> 00:45:41,767
for next steps

976
00:45:44,351 --> 00:45:44,601
hicks for a follow up

977
00:45:48,517 --> 00:45:48,767
thank you Mr Chair so

978
00:45:52,284 --> 00:45:52,534
I mean again on the monitor's

979
00:45:52,884 --> 00:45:53,134
roles and responsibilities and

980
00:45:54,484 --> 00:45:54,734
your you're listing out that

981
00:45:58,251 --> 00:45:58,501
oftentimes you look close to

982
00:45:58,951 --> 00:45:59,201
family members neighbors someone

983
00:46:00,751 --> 00:46:01,001
who's close to that child and I

984
00:46:02,284 --> 00:46:02,534
understand from kind of a child

985
00:46:02,984 --> 00:46:03,234
development perspective why that

986
00:46:04,751 --> 00:46:05,001
would be important do you feel

987
00:46:07,017 --> 00:46:07,267
like that offers any conflict of

988
00:46:08,784 --> 00:46:09,034
interest in really being able to

989
00:46:10,284 --> 00:46:10,534
monitor the situation

990
00:46:11,017 --> 00:46:11,267
effectively for the safety of

991
00:46:13,017 --> 00:46:13,267
the child. I don't know that

992
00:46:14,584 --> 00:46:14,834
there's a conflict of interest

993
00:46:15,251 --> 00:46:15,501
but we do have family who

994
00:46:15,784 --> 00:46:16,034
sometimes

995
00:46:18,251 --> 00:46:18,501
comes forward and says I'm not

996
00:46:18,984 --> 00:46:19,234
comfortable doing this because

997
00:46:20,517 --> 00:46:20,767
I'm related to this family

998
00:46:22,751 --> 00:46:23,001
member and they don't want to

999
00:46:24,484 --> 00:46:24,734
cause a strain on that

1000
00:46:26,484 --> 00:46:26,734
relationship which we completely

1001
00:46:28,251 --> 00:46:28,501
understand if that's the case

1002
00:46:30,484 --> 00:46:30,734
then we we kind of move around

1003
00:46:32,284 --> 00:46:32,534
maybe how we're going to do this

1004
00:46:33,017 --> 00:46:33,267
the monitor could also be the

1005
00:46:36,251 --> 00:46:36,501
worker so the worker could come

1006
00:46:36,984 --> 00:46:37,234
by check in with the family.

1007
00:46:38,984 --> 00:46:39,234
they are trained professionals

1008
00:46:40,517 --> 00:46:40,767
who know what to look for in

1009
00:46:43,017 --> 00:46:43,267
terms of safety looking outside

1010
00:46:44,617 --> 00:46:44,867
for a monitor like a family

1011
00:46:45,184 --> 00:46:45,434
member is just another

1012
00:46:47,017 --> 00:46:47,267
way to maybe make the parent and

1013
00:46:49,217 --> 00:46:49,467
the family feel comfortable

1014
00:46:50,484 --> 00:46:50,734
but again if that's not

1015
00:46:52,251 --> 00:46:52,501
something that the family wishes

1016
00:46:54,484 --> 00:46:54,734
to do then the responsibility

1017
00:46:55,117 --> 00:46:55,367
does come back to DHS to find

1018
00:46:55,784 --> 00:46:56,034
another way.

1019
00:46:58,317 --> 00:46:58,567
hicks for a follow up

1020
00:47:00,551 --> 00:47:00,801
thank you Mr Chair and so in

1021
00:47:01,117 --> 00:47:01,367
that

1022
00:47:05,017 --> 00:47:05,267
scenario it is completely

1023
00:47:06,784 --> 00:47:07,034
reliant upon whoever's been

1024
00:47:09,251 --> 00:47:09,501
asked to be the monitor to be

1025
00:47:11,051 --> 00:47:11,301
forthcoming is that correct

1026
00:47:12,784 --> 00:47:13,034
correct the the family

1027
00:47:15,051 --> 00:47:15,301
identifies and we have that

1028
00:47:16,717 --> 00:47:16,967
conversation and if they are not

1029
00:47:18,984 --> 00:47:19,234
in the position of wanting to do

1030
00:47:21,317 --> 00:47:21,567
that or can then the agency will

1031
00:47:21,984 --> 00:47:22,234
find a different solution.

1032
00:47:25,051 --> 00:47:25,301
hicks for a follow up

1033
00:47:28,451 --> 00:47:28,701
thank you Mr Chair. So I guess

1034
00:47:30,484 --> 00:47:30,734
I'm just trying to draw out that

1035
00:47:31,184 --> 00:47:31,434
that there's a potential for

1036
00:47:31,751 --> 00:47:32,001
potential

1037
00:47:36,551 --> 00:47:36,801
coercion possibly that if an

1038
00:47:38,251 --> 00:47:38,501
individual is close to those

1039
00:47:39,017 --> 00:47:39,267
children and wants to make good

1040
00:47:40,517 --> 00:47:40,767
decisions on behalf of the

1041
00:47:42,751 --> 00:47:43,001
children and their close with

1042
00:47:44,751 --> 00:47:45,001
the family member that has to be

1043
00:47:47,251 --> 00:47:47,501
monitored or supervised do you

1044
00:47:48,784 --> 00:47:49,034
see that that that could

1045
00:47:50,784 --> 00:47:51,034
possibly work against the best

1046
00:47:52,517 --> 00:47:52,767
interests of the safety of the

1047
00:47:54,784 --> 00:47:55,034
child. I don't don't believe it

1048
00:47:56,751 --> 00:47:57,001
impacts the safety of the child

1049
00:47:59,017 --> 00:47:59,267
the agency when we are going

1050
00:48:00,551 --> 00:48:00,801
out and doing our worker visits

1051
00:48:01,251 --> 00:48:01,501
we have to check in with the

1052
00:48:01,917 --> 00:48:02,167
monitor weekly we

1053
00:48:04,717 --> 00:48:04,967
are discussing safety so if

1054
00:48:05,351 --> 00:48:05,601
there were any

1055
00:48:09,251 --> 00:48:09,501
red flags or concerns about that

1056
00:48:11,017 --> 00:48:11,267
child's safety the worker would

1057
00:48:13,017 --> 00:48:13,267
be investigating that and in

1058
00:48:14,517 --> 00:48:14,767
those conversations that we're

1059
00:48:15,217 --> 00:48:15,467
having on a weekly basis with

1060
00:48:15,884 --> 00:48:16,134
monitors

1061
00:48:16,751 --> 00:48:17,001
hicks

1062
00:48:20,751 --> 00:48:21,001
thank you Mr Cha. so what is the

1063
00:48:24,517 --> 00:48:24,767
typical workload of a

1064
00:48:28,717 --> 00:48:28,967
caseworker they are assigned 1f

1065
00:48:30,951 --> 00:48:31,201
children for permanency planning

1066
00:48:34,484 --> 00:48:34,734
cases so give or take with

1067
00:48:36,251 --> 00:48:36,501
siblings you're looking at

1068
00:48:38,251 --> 00:48:38,501
maybe7 to 8 cases but it does

1069
00:48:40,251 --> 00:48:40,501
vary but we can definitely get

1070
00:48:40,884 --> 00:48:41,134
some some facts for you

1071
00:48:42,751 --> 00:48:43,001
but it's 1f children for

1072
00:48:43,317 --> 00:48:43,567
assignment

1073
00:48:46,651 --> 00:48:46,901
further questions

1074
00:48:52,284 --> 00:48:52,534
just to follow up so the

1075
00:48:54,284 --> 00:48:54,534
recommendation by the monitor is

1076
00:48:54,984 --> 00:48:55,234
just that a recommendation that

1077
00:48:56,951 --> 00:48:57,201
then goes into a report by DHS

1078
00:48:58,951 --> 00:48:59,201
I'm sure that that's compared

1079
00:49:00,951 --> 00:49:01,201
with maybeassa is this where

1080
00:49:02,751 --> 00:49:03,001
casa would be involved and then

1081
00:49:06,284 --> 00:49:06,534
the judge takes recommendations

1082
00:49:08,284 --> 00:49:08,534
reports from DHSassa direct

1083
00:49:10,284 --> 00:49:10,534
testimony before making any

1084
00:49:10,817 --> 00:49:11,067
further determinations as to

1085
00:49:14,284 --> 00:49:14,534
the safety or future of that

1086
00:49:14,984 --> 00:49:15,234
child is that all correct

1087
00:49:16,517 --> 00:49:16,767
correct the monitor if it was a

1088
00:49:18,517 --> 00:49:18,767
family member, hopefully they

1089
00:49:20,284 --> 00:49:20,534
would be sharing what they're

1090
00:49:22,251 --> 00:49:22,501
seeing with the worker and then

1091
00:49:22,951 --> 00:49:23,201
the worker could take that in

1092
00:49:24,551 --> 00:49:24,801
combination with provider

1093
00:49:25,151 --> 00:49:25,401
reports and things like that to

1094
00:49:26,317 --> 00:49:26,567
then put in the report for the

1095
00:49:26,984 --> 00:49:27,234
court

1096
00:49:32,651 --> 00:49:32,901
do you see any failings within

1097
00:49:33,284 --> 00:49:33,534
the system that you would

1098
00:49:36,284 --> 00:49:36,534
recommend within your you know

1099
00:49:38,317 --> 00:49:38,567
purview as the deputy director

1100
00:49:39,417 --> 00:49:39,667
over oversight of this again

1101
00:49:41,184 --> 00:49:41,434
with the policy goal of ensuring

1102
00:49:42,551 --> 00:49:42,801
that we have protection of

1103
00:49:44,317 --> 00:49:44,567
children that could be in

1104
00:49:44,817 --> 00:49:45,067
precarious situations

1105
00:49:48,884 --> 00:49:49,134
think that's a difficult

1106
00:49:50,551 --> 00:49:50,801
question. I think we're

1107
00:49:52,584 --> 00:49:52,834
always looking to improve our

1108
00:49:54,551 --> 00:49:54,801
practice as a state and as an

1109
00:49:55,251 --> 00:49:55,501
agency

1110
00:49:58,317 --> 00:49:58,567
you know case by case everything

1111
00:50:00,284 --> 00:50:00,534
looks a little bit different but

1112
00:50:02,284 --> 00:50:02,534
to say today I know of children

1113
00:50:02,917 --> 00:50:03,167
or families that have been

1114
00:50:04,817 --> 00:50:05,067
impacted by this that's a

1115
00:50:06,551 --> 00:50:06,801
hard question to ask but

1116
00:50:07,317 --> 00:50:07,567
something we're continuously

1117
00:50:10,817 --> 00:50:11,067
self-ref reflecting on to

1118
00:50:12,317 --> 00:50:12,567
improve practice for the

1119
00:50:12,817 --> 00:50:13,067
children and for their

1120
00:50:13,384 --> 00:50:13,634
safety.

1121
00:50:19,051 --> 00:50:19,301
how is so you said 1f kids is

1122
00:50:21,051 --> 00:50:21,301
the you know assigned workload

1123
00:50:22,551 --> 00:50:22,801
or try to be a are we able to

1124
00:50:26,317 --> 00:50:26,567
continue on with the

1125
00:50:28,584 --> 00:50:28,834
employment's needs to meet that

1126
00:50:29,251 --> 00:50:29,501
does it get overloaded

1127
00:50:30,851 --> 00:50:31,101
sometimes? What does that look

1128
00:50:32,551 --> 00:50:32,801
like as far as budgetary as well

1129
00:50:34,784 --> 00:50:35,034
as actual staffing it definitely

1130
00:50:36,817 --> 00:50:37,067
fluctuates region by region

1131
00:50:38,284 --> 00:50:38,534
we have ive regions so if you

1132
00:50:40,317 --> 00:50:40,567
have a more stable workforce you

1133
00:50:42,317 --> 00:50:42,567
do see us meeting that workload

1134
00:50:45,151 --> 00:50:45,401
standard more easily I'd

1135
00:50:48,284 --> 00:50:48,534
have to get I mean we we could

1136
00:50:48,917 --> 00:50:49,167
get you some numbers on where

1137
00:50:50,584 --> 00:50:50,834
we're at with workload standards

1138
00:50:51,417 --> 00:50:51,667
for the state if that's

1139
00:50:51,984 --> 00:50:52,234
required

1140
00:50:54,884 --> 00:50:55,134
further questions in committee

1141
00:51:00,417 --> 00:51:00,667
say no Senator Hicks thank you

1142
00:51:01,051 --> 00:51:01,301
deputy director you so much

1143
00:51:14,751 --> 00:51:15,001
thank you thank you so much

1144
00:51:16,784 --> 00:51:17,034
megan for for being with us

1145
00:51:18,284 --> 00:51:18,534
today. we are now going to

1146
00:51:18,817 --> 00:51:19,067
hear from the office of the

1147
00:51:22,517 --> 00:51:22,767
attorney general we have Miguel

1148
00:51:24,784 --> 00:51:25,034
Mojica a victim advocate and I

1149
00:51:26,251 --> 00:51:26,501
don't know if they're going to

1150
00:51:28,251 --> 00:51:28,501
present together or separate but

1151
00:51:30,584 --> 00:51:30,834
we also have myel solarzano

1152
00:51:32,284 --> 00:51:32,534
who is a program certification

1153
00:51:34,784 --> 00:51:35,034
manner manager with the attorney

1154
00:51:36,317 --> 00:51:36,567
general's office. thank you so

1155
00:51:36,984 --> 00:51:37,234
much for joining us today.

1156
00:51:49,051 --> 00:51:49,301
there we go thank you all

1157
00:51:50,784 --> 00:51:51,034
first off I want to thank you

1158
00:51:52,517 --> 00:51:52,767
Senator Hicks and members of the

1159
00:51:54,317 --> 00:51:54,567
committee for this opportunity

1160
00:51:54,984 --> 00:51:55,234
for our office to

1161
00:51:56,851 --> 00:51:57,101
talk a little bit about

1162
00:51:58,517 --> 00:51:58,767
certification what that looks

1163
00:52:00,284 --> 00:52:00,534
like it's just some safety and

1164
00:52:02,251 --> 00:52:02,501
accountability measures we have

1165
00:52:03,017 --> 00:52:03,267
currently for the types of

1166
00:52:06,251 --> 00:52:06,501
programs that we certify my name

1167
00:52:06,984 --> 00:52:07,234
is Miguel Mojica I'm the

1168
00:52:08,517 --> 00:52:08,767
certification manager for

1169
00:52:10,751 --> 00:52:11,001
batters intervention programs

1170
00:52:13,017 --> 00:52:13,267
today I'm joined with a myel

1171
00:52:14,517 --> 00:52:14,767
soarno I'm the program

1172
00:52:15,051 --> 00:52:15,301
certification manager withinassu

1173
00:52:17,784 --> 00:52:18,034
so between the two of us we

1174
00:52:20,251 --> 00:52:20,501
handle certification across

1175
00:52:22,284 --> 00:52:22,534
those two pro batters

1176
00:52:23,051 --> 00:52:23,301
intervention domestic violence

1177
00:52:24,784 --> 00:52:25,034
sexual assault programs and then

1178
00:52:26,717 --> 00:52:26,967
human trafficking programs so

1179
00:52:28,717 --> 00:52:28,967
between the three types of

1180
00:52:30,984 --> 00:52:31,234
certifications we have over70

1181
00:52:32,984 --> 00:52:33,234
types over 70 programs in the

1182
00:52:36,251 --> 00:52:36,501
state so very well familiar

1183
00:52:38,517 --> 00:52:38,767
with certification starting

1184
00:52:39,084 --> 00:52:39,334
new programs and then you'll

1185
00:52:40,984 --> 00:52:41,234
hear a little bit about

1186
00:52:42,984 --> 00:52:43,234
existing measures to keep

1187
00:52:43,551 --> 00:52:43,801
programs certified as well.

1188
00:52:49,017 --> 00:52:49,267
so today before we kind of dive

1189
00:52:50,984 --> 00:52:51,234
into our slides just giving a

1190
00:52:52,517 --> 00:52:52,767
little roadmap of what today's

1191
00:52:54,284 --> 00:52:54,534
going to look like and what

1192
00:52:54,984 --> 00:52:55,234
we're gonna talk about we're

1193
00:52:56,984 --> 00:52:57,234
gonna go over a little bit of

1194
00:53:00,484 --> 00:53:00,734
existing framework that is

1195
00:53:02,751 --> 00:53:03,001
within our office that holds

1196
00:53:04,284 --> 00:53:04,534
or that presents standards for

1197
00:53:06,517 --> 00:53:06,767
us to certify programs we'll

1198
00:53:08,517 --> 00:53:08,767
also talk about the existing

1199
00:53:10,517 --> 00:53:10,767
standards in place for those

1200
00:53:12,751 --> 00:53:13,001
programs to offer services

1201
00:53:14,251 --> 00:53:14,501
we're gonna talk about what the

1202
00:53:15,284 --> 00:53:15,534
actual process looks like to

1203
00:53:15,917 --> 00:53:16,167
become certified in

1204
00:53:18,717 --> 00:53:18,967
a very brief manner. we could

1205
00:53:20,517 --> 00:53:20,767
talk about this for an hour

1206
00:53:22,517 --> 00:53:22,767
easily but for the sake of

1207
00:53:24,284 --> 00:53:24,534
time we'll give you just a very

1208
00:53:24,984 --> 00:53:25,234
quick general overview of that

1209
00:53:28,484 --> 00:53:28,734
process we'll also get to talk

1210
00:53:30,284 --> 00:53:30,534
about some of what we consider

1211
00:53:32,517 --> 00:53:32,767
our most important standards

1212
00:53:34,284 --> 00:53:34,534
in place that whole document is

1213
00:53:35,017 --> 00:53:35,267
important but today I think for

1214
00:53:37,017 --> 00:53:37,267
the purpose of today's

1215
00:53:38,517 --> 00:53:38,767
conversation we really want to

1216
00:53:40,517 --> 00:53:40,767
look at what it takes to measure

1217
00:53:42,751 --> 00:53:43,001
safety whether that's supervised

1218
00:53:45,284 --> 00:53:45,534
visitation or our certified DBSA

1219
00:53:45,951 --> 00:53:46,201
programs so

1220
00:53:48,517 --> 00:53:48,767
talk through some of those

1221
00:53:50,551 --> 00:53:50,801
standards and then just the

1222
00:53:51,117 --> 00:53:51,367
overall importance of what

1223
00:53:52,317 --> 00:53:52,567
certification looks like so

1224
00:53:56,284 --> 00:53:56,534
starting out with the framework

1225
00:53:58,751 --> 00:53:59,001
of our office our work is

1226
00:54:00,817 --> 00:54:01,067
governed specifically by the

1227
00:54:04,284 --> 00:54:04,534
administrative code OACitle75

1228
00:54:06,284 --> 00:54:06,534
chapter one and chapter fif

1229
00:54:08,784 --> 00:54:09,034
specifically for DBSA programs

1230
00:54:10,284 --> 00:54:10,534
there's other corresponding

1231
00:54:12,284 --> 00:54:12,534
chapters of course for

1232
00:54:12,784 --> 00:54:13,034
depending on the certification

1233
00:54:14,751 --> 00:54:15,001
type but today we'll talk about

1234
00:54:16,784 --> 00:54:17,034
DBSA programs specifically

1235
00:54:18,284 --> 00:54:18,534
and again domestic violence

1236
00:54:20,551 --> 00:54:20,801
sexual assault we have many many

1237
00:54:22,351 --> 00:54:22,601
acron acronyms in the world of

1238
00:54:23,017 --> 00:54:23,267
victim services so

1239
00:54:24,951 --> 00:54:25,201
starting with chapter one

1240
00:54:26,484 --> 00:54:26,734
this really outlines

1241
00:54:30,517 --> 00:54:30,767
key terms you'll different

1242
00:54:32,484 --> 00:54:32,734
certification types the

1243
00:54:34,484 --> 00:54:34,734
timelines what it takes to

1244
00:54:36,251 --> 00:54:36,501
actually file an application

1245
00:54:38,284 --> 00:54:38,534
through our office and it

1246
00:54:40,284 --> 00:54:40,534
also clarifies that

1247
00:54:42,751 --> 00:54:43,001
certification is a license so

1248
00:54:45,017 --> 00:54:45,267
very rigid requirements for

1249
00:54:46,517 --> 00:54:46,767
anyone interested in applying

1250
00:54:48,984 --> 00:54:49,234
for certification so you will

1251
00:54:50,284 --> 00:54:50,534
hear about what it takes to

1252
00:54:50,951 --> 00:54:51,201
become certified but just know

1253
00:54:54,517 --> 00:54:54,767
that it's licensed and

1254
00:54:54,984 --> 00:54:55,234
just like any other license

1255
00:54:56,551 --> 00:54:56,801
that's issued by the state

1256
00:54:57,117 --> 00:54:57,367
there are rigid

1257
00:54:57,851 --> 00:54:58,101
requirements

1258
00:55:00,517 --> 00:55:00,767
specifically for chapter 1f

1259
00:55:04,251 --> 00:55:04,501
you'll see scattered out through

1260
00:55:06,251 --> 00:55:06,501
this section different

1261
00:55:08,484 --> 00:55:08,734
program requirements that can

1262
00:55:10,484 --> 00:55:10,734
be anything from the facility

1263
00:55:12,517 --> 00:55:12,767
itself where they'll be

1264
00:55:14,984 --> 00:55:15,234
providing services documentation

1265
00:55:16,484 --> 00:55:16,734
standards how they're actually

1266
00:55:18,251 --> 00:55:18,501
documenting the services that

1267
00:55:20,251 --> 00:55:20,501
are being provided by that

1268
00:55:22,484 --> 00:55:22,734
program training all of these

1269
00:55:23,184 --> 00:55:23,434
are defined within their own

1270
00:55:24,951 --> 00:55:25,201
subchapters I mean this is

1271
00:55:26,951 --> 00:55:27,201
probably a20 to30 ppage document

1272
00:55:30,251 --> 00:55:30,501
that outlines all the

1273
00:55:30,751 --> 00:55:31,001
expectations that our office has

1274
00:55:31,417 --> 00:55:31,667
for these

1275
00:55:34,484 --> 00:55:34,734
programs assessment

1276
00:55:36,484 --> 00:55:36,734
background confidentiality just

1277
00:55:38,684 --> 00:55:38,934
the main gist is that it's a

1278
00:55:41,184 --> 00:55:41,434
very concise document that

1279
00:55:42,484 --> 00:55:42,734
outlines the expectations of

1280
00:55:43,051 --> 00:55:43,301
those programs

1281
00:55:48,251 --> 00:55:48,501
this is the certification

1282
00:55:50,251 --> 00:55:50,501
process mapped out and as I said

1283
00:55:52,451 --> 00:55:52,701
a very general version of that

1284
00:55:54,251 --> 00:55:54,501
I could probably add another

1285
00:55:56,984 --> 00:55:57,234
10 boxes here but it starts out

1286
00:56:00,751 --> 00:56:01,001
with an application so from

1287
00:56:02,251 --> 00:56:02,501
the very beginning when we're

1288
00:56:02,984 --> 00:56:03,234
having a conversation with

1289
00:56:04,951 --> 00:56:05,201
someone who wants to provide

1290
00:56:07,184 --> 00:56:07,434
DBSA services whether that be

1291
00:56:08,951 --> 00:56:09,201
crisis intervention or shelter

1292
00:56:12,751 --> 00:56:13,001
services we need to get a get an

1293
00:56:14,551 --> 00:56:14,801
idea of who's talking to us who

1294
00:56:15,217 --> 00:56:15,467
is

1295
00:56:16,951 --> 00:56:17,201
who's this program that wants to

1296
00:56:18,951 --> 00:56:19,201
provide these services so this

1297
00:56:20,484 --> 00:56:20,734
application's going to ask for

1298
00:56:22,717 --> 00:56:22,967
all sorts of organizational

1299
00:56:24,251 --> 00:56:24,501
information we're gonna want to

1300
00:56:26,517 --> 00:56:26,767
see their if they're a

1301
00:56:26,984 --> 00:56:27,234
business registration as a

1302
00:56:28,751 --> 00:56:29,001
business entity or documents of

1303
00:56:31,017 --> 00:56:31,267
incorporation that determines

1304
00:56:32,984 --> 00:56:33,234
there are nonprofit very just

1305
00:56:34,751 --> 00:56:35,001
procedural organizational

1306
00:56:36,717 --> 00:56:36,967
information so there's lots

1307
00:56:38,251 --> 00:56:38,501
of back and forth at the

1308
00:56:40,284 --> 00:56:40,534
beginning we have conversations

1309
00:56:42,517 --> 00:56:42,767
with them either in person or

1310
00:56:44,551 --> 00:56:44,801
virtually to map out those

1311
00:56:45,117 --> 00:56:45,367
expectations in that

1312
00:56:46,717 --> 00:56:46,967
way they understand what they're

1313
00:56:50,484 --> 00:56:50,734
sending in from that point we

1314
00:56:52,251 --> 00:56:52,501
would review this application,

1315
00:56:54,451 --> 00:56:54,701
make sure it is deemed to be

1316
00:56:55,184 --> 00:56:55,434
complete that they've provided

1317
00:56:57,017 --> 00:56:57,267
everything upfront just that

1318
00:56:58,784 --> 00:56:59,034
original or that first off

1319
00:57:00,517 --> 00:57:00,767
the policies and procedures that

1320
00:57:02,517 --> 00:57:02,767
they have an idea of these are

1321
00:57:03,217 --> 00:57:03,467
the services we're gonna to

1322
00:57:03,751 --> 00:57:04,001
provide

1323
00:57:06,751 --> 00:57:07,001
after that we move into

1324
00:57:10,284 --> 00:57:10,534
review so we would schedule a

1325
00:57:12,484 --> 00:57:12,734
review to be conducted in person

1326
00:57:14,484 --> 00:57:14,734
at this facility that's when we

1327
00:57:16,484 --> 00:57:16,734
actually get to review policies

1328
00:57:18,751 --> 00:57:19,001
procedures start to finish we

1329
00:57:20,751 --> 00:57:21,001
see who's going to be providing

1330
00:57:22,751 --> 00:57:23,001
the services we talked to the

1331
00:57:24,517 --> 00:57:24,767
staff members we get an idea of

1332
00:57:25,217 --> 00:57:25,467
their board

1333
00:57:28,751 --> 00:57:29,001
training just all the upfront

1334
00:57:30,317 --> 00:57:30,567
necessities that they would need

1335
00:57:31,051 --> 00:57:31,301
to have in place in order to

1336
00:57:32,751 --> 00:57:33,001
operate a successful program

1337
00:57:33,317 --> 00:57:33,567
so we would review

1338
00:57:36,751 --> 00:57:37,001
all those things from that point

1339
00:57:38,984 --> 00:57:39,234
that goes into the on site

1340
00:57:40,484 --> 00:57:40,734
review which I mentioned a

1341
00:57:42,284 --> 00:57:42,534
little bit to take it a step

1342
00:57:44,251 --> 00:57:44,501
further we want to see what

1343
00:57:44,984 --> 00:57:45,234
implementation is going to look

1344
00:57:47,251 --> 00:57:47,501
like for us to go to a crisis

1345
00:57:48,784 --> 00:57:49,034
center we're going to want to

1346
00:57:52,284 --> 00:57:52,534
see that they have a24 hour line

1347
00:57:53,051 --> 00:57:53,301
available we want to make sure

1348
00:57:54,784 --> 00:57:55,034
that they have clothing on site

1349
00:57:56,784 --> 00:57:57,034
all the necessities that these

1350
00:57:59,051 --> 00:57:59,301
the victims are going to need at

1351
00:58:01,051 --> 00:58:01,301
the time of services that's when

1352
00:58:02,751 --> 00:58:03,001
safety measures also come up as

1353
00:58:03,417 --> 00:58:03,667
well we're going to look at the

1354
00:58:04,051 --> 00:58:04,301
location

1355
00:58:06,551 --> 00:58:06,801
of this facility we want to make

1356
00:58:08,517 --> 00:58:08,767
sure that these services are

1357
00:58:10,984 --> 00:58:11,234
confidential at any point for

1358
00:58:12,984 --> 00:58:13,234
the victims so it's a very

1359
00:58:14,751 --> 00:58:15,001
important part for us to really

1360
00:58:16,951 --> 00:58:17,201
get a clear idea of what's

1361
00:58:17,551 --> 00:58:17,801
happening here with this program

1362
00:58:21,317 --> 00:58:21,567
from there once we've had the

1363
00:58:24,784 --> 00:58:25,034
opportunity to review their

1364
00:58:28,251 --> 00:58:28,501
policies look at their physical

1365
00:58:30,284 --> 00:58:30,534
location that's when we get to

1366
00:58:32,284 --> 00:58:32,534
make a compliance determination

1367
00:58:34,284 --> 00:58:34,534
so without getting into all the

1368
00:58:36,284 --> 00:58:36,534
different numbers of percentages

1369
00:58:36,917 --> 00:58:37,167
that they have to meet in a

1370
00:58:39,017 --> 00:58:39,267
nutshell they have to meet a

1371
00:58:41,017 --> 00:58:41,267
specific percentage that allows

1372
00:58:43,051 --> 00:58:43,301
them to gain that certification

1373
00:58:46,517 --> 00:58:46,767
status so with that they

1374
00:58:48,351 --> 00:58:48,601
would be given that temporary or

1375
00:58:49,051 --> 00:58:49,301
condition

1376
00:58:52,284 --> 00:58:52,534
al status to provide services

1377
00:58:54,284 --> 00:58:54,534
that's not the end of this

1378
00:58:55,017 --> 00:58:55,267
process that's actually what I

1379
00:58:56,751 --> 00:58:57,001
would consider the first most

1380
00:58:58,517 --> 00:58:58,767
important beginning of it

1381
00:58:59,084 --> 00:58:59,334
because that's when natural

1382
00:59:00,951 --> 00:59:01,201
services start and where all

1383
00:59:02,984 --> 00:59:03,234
those safety measures have to be

1384
00:59:04,784 --> 00:59:05,034
taken they have to take place

1385
00:59:07,017 --> 00:59:07,267
and so we would have that

1386
00:59:08,751 --> 00:59:09,001
conversation with them make

1387
00:59:10,517 --> 00:59:10,767
sure that they're setting

1388
00:59:12,751 --> 00:59:13,001
themselves up for success we

1389
00:59:14,984 --> 00:59:15,234
have a very strict 100%

1390
00:59:16,517 --> 00:59:16,767
compliance requirement at the

1391
00:59:18,351 --> 00:59:18,601
end of this process so starting

1392
00:59:19,017 --> 00:59:19,267
out

1393
00:59:20,751 --> 00:59:21,001
of course there's going to be

1394
00:59:22,517 --> 00:59:22,767
room for maybe there's a

1395
00:59:24,717 --> 00:59:24,967
training missed or you know some

1396
00:59:26,484 --> 00:59:26,734
documents that need to be

1397
00:59:28,251 --> 00:59:28,501
corrected so there there's

1398
00:59:28,851 --> 00:59:29,101
there's room for those

1399
00:59:30,484 --> 00:59:30,734
conversations and what we would

1400
00:59:32,751 --> 00:59:33,001
call deficiencies you know we

1401
00:59:34,984 --> 00:59:35,234
send out reports but by the

1402
00:59:36,784 --> 00:59:37,034
end of it we want to make sure

1403
00:59:38,517 --> 00:59:38,767
that this program is completely

1404
00:59:42,251 --> 00:59:42,501
100% compliant that way we have

1405
00:59:44,251 --> 00:59:44,501
the confidence to give our

1406
00:59:46,284 --> 00:59:46,534
offices stamp of approval and

1407
00:59:46,984 --> 00:59:47,234
full certification that this

1408
00:59:48,351 --> 00:59:48,601
program is following all those

1409
00:59:50,451 --> 00:59:50,701
standards that I mentioned in

1410
00:59:51,151 --> 00:59:51,401
chapter fif.

1411
00:59:54,251 --> 00:59:54,501
so from there that would lead

1412
00:59:56,251 --> 00:59:56,501
into the oversight role where

1413
00:59:58,484 --> 00:59:58,734
there's continued compliance

1414
01:00:00,784 --> 01:00:01,034
it's this this process really

1415
01:00:02,751 --> 01:00:03,001
doesn't ever I'll say it has a

1416
01:00:04,251 --> 01:00:04,501
finish point for the sake of our

1417
01:00:05,017 --> 01:00:05,267
programs that want to get to the

1418
01:00:06,517 --> 01:00:06,767
end to the finish line if we

1419
01:00:08,284 --> 01:00:08,534
told them there wasn't a finish

1420
01:00:08,984 --> 01:00:09,234
line I don't think we'd get very

1421
01:00:11,017 --> 01:00:11,267
many people to apply but

1422
01:00:14,717 --> 01:00:14,967
compliance is ongoing there's

1423
01:00:16,517 --> 01:00:16,767
conversations whether those are

1424
01:00:17,284 --> 01:00:17,534
meetings that our office

1425
01:00:19,051 --> 01:00:19,301
hosts conversations with

1426
01:00:20,517 --> 01:00:20,767
executive directors it's

1427
01:00:23,251 --> 01:00:23,501
ongoing so we just want to make

1428
01:00:25,051 --> 01:00:25,301
sure that our programs are

1429
01:00:27,051 --> 01:00:27,301
taking these standards seriously

1430
01:00:29,017 --> 01:00:29,267
and that safety is always

1431
01:00:30,984 --> 01:00:31,234
considered we'll kind of move

1432
01:00:32,951 --> 01:00:33,201
into what some of those

1433
01:00:34,684 --> 01:00:34,934
standards look like and what

1434
01:00:35,251 --> 01:00:35,501
they can actually address

1435
01:00:40,484 --> 01:00:40,734
so now that we have talked a bit

1436
01:00:42,251 --> 01:00:42,501
about the regulatory framework

1437
01:00:42,951 --> 01:00:43,201
surrounding the certification

1438
01:00:44,751 --> 01:00:45,001
process. I think it's important

1439
01:00:46,251 --> 01:00:46,501
for us to discuss why that

1440
01:00:46,984 --> 01:00:47,234
framework matters

1441
01:00:48,717 --> 01:00:48,967
specifically when it comes to

1442
01:00:50,251 --> 01:00:50,501
safety and accountability

1443
01:00:52,251 --> 01:00:52,501
particularly when working

1444
01:00:54,251 --> 01:00:54,501
with vulnerable populations and

1445
01:00:54,984 --> 01:00:55,234
what certification allows us to

1446
01:00:56,951 --> 01:00:57,201
do is take something that is as

1447
01:00:58,517 --> 01:00:58,767
important and but sometimes

1448
01:01:00,484 --> 01:01:00,734
broad as safety and turn it

1449
01:01:02,484 --> 01:01:02,734
into specific expectations and

1450
01:01:04,484 --> 01:01:04,734
so echoing what Miguel had

1451
01:01:06,517 --> 01:01:06,767
said earlier and we are able to

1452
01:01:07,184 --> 01:01:07,434
do that with the language we

1453
01:01:07,851 --> 01:01:08,101
have set in

1454
01:01:08,984 --> 01:01:09,234
the standards and criteria for

1455
01:01:10,951 --> 01:01:11,201
all of our certified providers

1456
01:01:12,984 --> 01:01:13,234
and so we've highlighted a

1457
01:01:14,717 --> 01:01:14,967
few different key areas for sake

1458
01:01:16,551 --> 01:01:16,801
of brevity in this presentation

1459
01:01:17,251 --> 01:01:17,501
we haven't cited the specific

1460
01:01:19,017 --> 01:01:19,267
standards that we have set but

1461
01:01:20,984 --> 01:01:21,234
you know different key areas

1462
01:01:22,751 --> 01:01:23,001
would include physical safety of

1463
01:01:24,717 --> 01:01:24,967
the location where services are

1464
01:01:27,017 --> 01:01:27,267
being provided to survivors

1465
01:01:28,484 --> 01:01:28,734
reaching out to receive those

1466
01:01:30,517 --> 01:01:30,767
services and we're looking at

1467
01:01:31,117 --> 01:01:31,367
different things you know

1468
01:01:32,984 --> 01:01:33,234
facility requirements the the

1469
01:01:34,517 --> 01:01:34,767
standards are pretty

1470
01:01:34,984 --> 01:01:35,234
straightforward about what's

1471
01:01:36,717 --> 01:01:36,967
required there and some of

1472
01:01:37,284 --> 01:01:37,534
the language we have said

1473
01:01:40,951 --> 01:01:41,201
is a bit more black and white

1474
01:01:42,717 --> 01:01:42,967
concrete about what our

1475
01:01:44,484 --> 01:01:44,734
expectations are and you know

1476
01:01:45,084 --> 01:01:45,334
when it comes to approved fire

1477
01:01:46,551 --> 01:01:46,801
inspection that's pretty

1478
01:01:47,117 --> 01:01:47,367
straightforward about what we

1479
01:01:50,284 --> 01:01:50,534
are requiring versus emergency

1480
01:01:52,284 --> 01:01:52,534
procedures what an agency has

1481
01:01:54,751 --> 01:01:55,001
set and may look different we

1482
01:01:56,251 --> 01:01:56,501
still require you know they have

1483
01:01:58,317 --> 01:01:58,567
a plan for dealing with bomb

1484
01:01:59,017 --> 01:01:59,267
threats intruder drills,

1485
01:02:00,784 --> 01:02:01,034
different things but

1486
01:02:02,284 --> 01:02:02,534
depending on the agency you know

1487
01:02:02,984 --> 01:02:03,234
they're going to have different

1488
01:02:04,517 --> 01:02:04,767
number of staff, different

1489
01:02:06,484 --> 01:02:06,734
layout of their facilities and

1490
01:02:07,184 --> 01:02:07,434
and so it is going to look

1491
01:02:07,751 --> 01:02:08,001
different depending

1492
01:02:10,251 --> 01:02:10,501
on which agency we're looking at

1493
01:02:12,284 --> 01:02:12,534
another area of policies and

1494
01:02:14,251 --> 01:02:14,501
procedures we have language set

1495
01:02:14,984 --> 01:02:15,234
there and making sure that it's

1496
01:02:16,284 --> 01:02:16,534
consistent so there are

1497
01:02:18,284 --> 01:02:18,534
protocols set up for safety

1498
01:02:20,551 --> 01:02:20,801
concerns and incidents that may

1499
01:02:24,751 --> 01:02:25,001
occur and training as well

1500
01:02:26,251 --> 01:02:26,501
for the staff members who are

1501
01:02:27,217 --> 01:02:27,467
providing direct or nondirect

1502
01:02:30,284 --> 01:02:30,534
care to the clients who are

1503
01:02:32,517 --> 01:02:32,767
reaching out for services and we

1504
01:02:34,517 --> 01:02:34,767
have in our standard drink

1505
01:02:36,717 --> 01:02:36,967
criteria it's set up we have

1506
01:02:37,284 --> 01:02:37,534
specific training topic require

1507
01:02:40,751 --> 01:02:41,001
ment s that each agency has to

1508
01:02:42,751 --> 01:02:43,001
go over but again this is

1509
01:02:44,251 --> 01:02:44,501
gonna look different depending

1510
01:02:45,184 --> 01:02:45,434
on the organization so agency A

1511
01:02:46,751 --> 01:02:47,001
may have an in-house training

1512
01:02:48,284 --> 01:02:48,534
that they've developed that

1513
01:02:48,984 --> 01:02:49,234
meets that criteria versus

1514
01:02:52,251 --> 01:02:52,501
agency B may elect to utilize a

1515
01:02:52,951 --> 01:02:53,201
state or federal training that

1516
01:02:54,984 --> 01:02:55,234
they think works well for their

1517
01:02:57,017 --> 01:02:57,267
staff and different ways that

1518
01:02:58,751 --> 01:02:59,001
we're able to monitor compliance

1519
01:03:00,517 --> 01:03:00,767
with those standards and you

1520
01:03:01,084 --> 01:03:01,334
know as we're going out and

1521
01:03:02,951 --> 01:03:03,201
conducting these on site reviews

1522
01:03:04,751 --> 01:03:05,001
it's looking through the

1523
01:03:06,751 --> 01:03:07,001
personnel files log trainings

1524
01:03:07,417 --> 01:03:07,667
or training logs I apolog

1525
01:03:10,751 --> 01:03:11,001
ize having conversation with

1526
01:03:14,251 --> 01:03:14,501
the staff and executive director

1527
01:03:15,184 --> 01:03:15,434
it really looks different but

1528
01:03:16,617 --> 01:03:16,867
we have different mechanisms in

1529
01:03:18,251 --> 01:03:18,501
place for being able to monitor

1530
01:03:20,517 --> 01:03:20,767
compliance with that language

1531
01:03:22,717 --> 01:03:22,967
again I think oversight really

1532
01:03:24,517 --> 01:03:24,767
the biggest piece fortgen

1533
01:03:26,484 --> 01:03:26,734
criteria we are able to go in

1534
01:03:28,751 --> 01:03:29,001
and have a mechanism set in

1535
01:03:30,951 --> 01:03:31,201
place for being able to

1536
01:03:32,484 --> 01:03:32,734
ensure that

1537
01:03:34,984 --> 01:03:35,234
the agency is operating in a way

1538
01:03:36,717 --> 01:03:36,967
that is in alignment with the

1539
01:03:37,384 --> 01:03:37,634
expectations set forward

1540
01:03:38,817 --> 01:03:39,067
by our office

1541
01:03:43,017 --> 01:03:43,267
and so then we jump over into

1542
01:03:44,751 --> 01:03:45,001
certification as a safety and

1543
01:03:46,517 --> 01:03:46,767
accountability framework and

1544
01:03:48,251 --> 01:03:48,501
I believe that Oklahoma's

1545
01:03:50,517 --> 01:03:50,767
existing certification model and

1546
01:03:52,484 --> 01:03:52,734
we do provide a framework to hit

1547
01:03:54,251 --> 01:03:54,501
a variety of different

1548
01:03:54,951 --> 01:03:55,201
important factors but we wanted

1549
01:03:56,984 --> 01:03:57,234
to highlight these five and

1550
01:03:58,751 --> 01:03:59,001
consistency, safety, quality,

1551
01:04:00,784 --> 01:04:01,034
accountability and continuous

1552
01:04:02,784 --> 01:04:03,034
improvement so with

1553
01:04:04,751 --> 01:04:05,001
consistency again just a common

1554
01:04:06,517 --> 01:04:06,767
baseline of expectations that we

1555
01:04:08,484 --> 01:04:08,734
have for the agencies it is

1556
01:04:09,051 --> 01:04:09,301
going to look different in

1557
01:04:09,617 --> 01:04:09,867
practice but

1558
01:04:12,551 --> 01:04:12,801
we have maintained a close level

1559
01:04:14,251 --> 01:04:14,501
of communication with all of our

1560
01:04:15,251 --> 01:04:15,501
certified providers to ensure

1561
01:04:17,017 --> 01:04:17,267
that once they are certified and

1562
01:04:18,751 --> 01:04:19,001
have that stamp of approval from

1563
01:04:22,251 --> 01:04:22,501
our office. we know that the

1564
01:04:22,884 --> 01:04:23,134
services being provided are

1565
01:04:24,484 --> 01:04:24,734
consistent and in alignment with

1566
01:04:26,251 --> 01:04:26,501
the expectations set forward

1567
01:04:28,251 --> 01:04:28,501
before them and same with safety

1568
01:04:30,751 --> 01:04:31,001
and the standards are are very

1569
01:04:33,017 --> 01:04:33,267
clear as to what we require

1570
01:04:35,017 --> 01:04:35,267
there quality of services and if

1571
01:04:38,251 --> 01:04:38,501
you go to the southwest portion

1572
01:04:38,884 --> 01:04:39,134
of the state and seek out

1573
01:04:39,451 --> 01:04:39,701
services through one of our

1574
01:04:39,984 --> 01:04:40,234
certified providers

1575
01:04:42,517 --> 01:04:42,767
there and we can ensure that the

1576
01:04:44,251 --> 01:04:44,501
quality of services is going to

1577
01:04:45,217 --> 01:04:45,467
be the same as if you were to go

1578
01:04:46,984 --> 01:04:47,234
to the northwestern part of the

1579
01:04:48,484 --> 01:04:48,734
state and seek out services

1580
01:04:50,517 --> 01:04:50,767
through a provider there same

1581
01:04:52,451 --> 01:04:52,701
with accountability against

1582
01:04:54,484 --> 01:04:54,734
standards and criteria really

1583
01:04:56,751 --> 01:04:57,001
has developed a mechanism for us

1584
01:04:58,251 --> 01:04:58,501
to be able to evaluate and

1585
01:05:00,551 --> 01:05:00,801
monitor compliance as that's

1586
01:05:02,751 --> 01:05:03,001
ongoing and continuous

1587
01:05:04,751 --> 01:05:05,001
improvement umiguiel and I have

1588
01:05:06,751 --> 01:05:07,001
a great working relationship I

1589
01:05:08,517 --> 01:05:08,767
would say with all 30 of our

1590
01:05:09,117 --> 01:05:09,367
certified DVSA providers

1591
01:05:09,651 --> 01:05:09,901
throughout the

1592
01:05:13,051 --> 01:05:13,301
state and we are easy to get in

1593
01:05:13,717 --> 01:05:13,967
contact with

1594
01:05:16,784 --> 01:05:17,034
and we are consistently

1595
01:05:18,451 --> 01:05:18,701
providing any technical

1596
01:05:20,251 --> 01:05:20,501
assistance and corrective action

1597
01:05:24,284 --> 01:05:24,534
when needed and so we are

1598
01:05:25,017 --> 01:05:25,267
continuously having follow up

1599
01:05:26,751 --> 01:05:27,001
with all of the providers who

1600
01:05:28,717 --> 01:05:28,967
are providing services

1601
01:05:29,251 --> 01:05:29,501
throughout the state of Oklahoma

1602
01:05:36,751 --> 01:05:37,001
and so again I know Miguel had

1603
01:05:38,784 --> 01:05:39,034
echoed it earlier for sake of

1604
01:05:40,551 --> 01:05:40,801
time we condensed all of this

1605
01:05:42,284 --> 01:05:42,534
information down but we are

1606
01:05:43,051 --> 01:05:43,301
more than happy to answer any

1607
01:05:45,017 --> 01:05:45,267
questions or we've provided our

1608
01:05:47,051 --> 01:05:47,301
contact information so if at any

1609
01:05:48,551 --> 01:05:48,801
point you have any questions or

1610
01:05:50,284 --> 01:05:50,534
concerns we would love to get in

1611
01:05:51,017 --> 01:05:51,267
contact with you and help answer

1612
01:05:51,651 --> 01:05:51,901
those. so thank you

1613
01:05:52,917 --> 01:05:53,167
for your time.

1614
01:05:54,584 --> 01:05:54,834
en ator Hicks

1615
01:05:56,684 --> 01:05:56,934
members of the committee

1616
01:06:00,317 --> 01:06:00,567
questions

1617
01:06:05,217 --> 01:06:05,467
appreciate you guys

1618
01:06:08,284 --> 01:06:08,534
participating for the attorney

1619
01:06:08,984 --> 01:06:09,234
general's office and review of

1620
01:06:10,984 --> 01:06:11,234
what the certifications are for

1621
01:06:12,551 --> 01:06:12,801
these that are actually out in

1622
01:06:13,217 --> 01:06:13,467
the communities

1623
01:06:16,551 --> 01:06:16,801
Senator Hicks you recognized for

1624
01:06:17,217 --> 01:06:17,467
introduction of your next

1625
01:06:17,751 --> 01:06:18,001
speaker.

1626
01:06:20,784 --> 01:06:21,034
thank you again so much for

1627
01:06:22,517 --> 01:06:22,767
providing that insight because

1628
01:06:24,484 --> 01:06:24,734
now we're actually going to hear

1629
01:06:26,984 --> 01:06:27,234
from one of the DVSA providers

1630
01:06:30,317 --> 01:06:30,567
so the YWCA is joining us

1631
01:06:32,584 --> 01:06:32,834
today. this is uhimmoha Mosher

1632
01:06:33,284 --> 01:06:33,534
the senior director of domestic

1633
01:06:35,051 --> 01:06:35,301
violenceolenceervices and

1634
01:06:37,051 --> 01:06:37,301
Anitayidberg the senior director

1635
01:06:38,517 --> 01:06:38,767
of residential services

1636
01:06:39,051 --> 01:06:39,301
welcomelcome.

1637
01:06:39,684 --> 01:06:39,934
good afternoon

1638
01:06:44,751 --> 01:06:45,001
thank you senator Hicks members

1639
01:06:45,451 --> 01:06:45,701
of the committee we appreciate

1640
01:06:47,017 --> 01:06:47,267
the opportunity to share the

1641
01:06:48,784 --> 01:06:49,034
perspective of a domestic

1642
01:06:50,484 --> 01:06:50,734
violence victim service

1643
01:06:52,717 --> 01:06:52,967
provider. Our main point today

1644
01:06:54,984 --> 01:06:55,234
is simple supervised visitation

1645
01:06:56,784 --> 01:06:57,034
is not automatically safe

1646
01:06:57,351 --> 01:06:57,601
visitation.

1647
01:07:00,284 --> 01:07:00,534
in domestic violence cases

1648
01:07:02,284 --> 01:07:02,534
safety depends on whether the

1649
01:07:03,017 --> 01:07:03,267
process recognizes coercive

1650
01:07:06,484 --> 01:07:06,734
control, addresses risk before

1651
01:07:08,517 --> 01:07:08,767
during and after contact and has

1652
01:07:09,217 --> 01:07:09,467
meaningful structure and

1653
01:07:09,751 --> 01:07:10,001
accountability

1654
01:07:14,517 --> 01:07:14,767
to explain what we mean it is

1655
01:07:16,284 --> 01:07:16,534
important to distinguish high

1656
01:07:18,251 --> 01:07:18,501
conflict co parenting from

1657
01:07:20,251 --> 01:07:20,501
coercive controlling violence

1658
01:07:22,751 --> 01:07:23,001
when practical challenge is that

1659
01:07:23,484 --> 01:07:23,734
highrisk domestic violence can

1660
01:07:25,017 --> 01:07:25,267
be framed as high conflict co

1661
01:07:27,051 --> 01:07:27,301
parenting those are not

1662
01:07:27,617 --> 01:07:27,867
necessarily the same dynamic

1663
01:07:30,784 --> 01:07:31,034
High conflict may involve

1664
01:07:32,717 --> 01:07:32,967
disagreement, poor communication

1665
01:07:34,951 --> 01:07:35,201
or hostility often centered on

1666
01:07:37,017 --> 01:07:37,267
difficulty managing a co

1667
01:07:37,584 --> 01:07:37,834
parenting relationship.

1668
01:07:40,751 --> 01:07:41,001
but coercive controlling

1669
01:07:42,517 --> 01:07:42,767
violence sometimes described in

1670
01:07:44,717 --> 01:07:44,967
the research as intimate partner

1671
01:07:46,751 --> 01:07:47,001
terrorism is a pattern of

1672
01:07:48,484 --> 01:07:48,734
domestic violence in which one

1673
01:07:50,751 --> 01:07:51,001
partner uses abuse threats

1674
01:07:52,751 --> 01:07:53,001
stalking, intimidation and

1675
01:07:54,784 --> 01:07:55,034
children or other systems to

1676
01:07:56,484 --> 01:07:56,734
dominate the other parent and

1677
01:07:57,184 --> 01:07:57,434
maintain power and control.

1678
01:08:02,517 --> 01:08:02,767
for example an abuser may use

1679
01:08:04,517 --> 01:08:04,767
information obtained through the

1680
01:08:06,784 --> 01:08:07,034
children repeated court filings

1681
01:08:08,751 --> 01:08:09,001
or required parent communication

1682
01:08:11,017 --> 01:08:11,267
to maintain access to and

1683
01:08:12,984 --> 01:08:13,234
control over the victim. When

1684
01:08:14,751 --> 01:08:15,001
that is the underlying dynamic

1685
01:08:16,484 --> 01:08:16,734
practices designed simply to

1686
01:08:17,051 --> 01:08:17,301
improve

1687
01:08:20,517 --> 01:08:20,767
communication or encourage co

1688
01:08:22,251 --> 01:08:22,501
parenting can create additional

1689
01:08:22,917 --> 01:08:23,167
risk to the adult victim and the

1690
01:08:23,584 --> 01:08:23,834
children.

1691
01:08:28,451 --> 01:08:28,701
and in fact separation

1692
01:08:31,017 --> 01:08:31,267
from a domestic violence

1693
01:08:34,251 --> 01:08:34,501
relationship does not end

1694
01:08:34,851 --> 01:08:35,101
domestic violence in the

1695
01:08:36,951 --> 01:08:37,201
coercive control. In fact

1696
01:08:38,484 --> 01:08:38,734
research tells us that

1697
01:08:40,484 --> 01:08:40,734
separation is the most dangerous

1698
01:08:42,784 --> 01:08:43,034
time for a victim. There are

1699
01:08:44,684 --> 01:08:44,934
some studies that find that the

1700
01:08:46,484 --> 01:08:46,734
increased risk is up to two

1701
01:08:47,051 --> 01:08:47,301
years post separation.

1702
01:08:50,551 --> 01:08:50,801
some of the tactics of post

1703
01:08:52,251 --> 01:08:52,501
separation abuse can include

1704
01:08:54,751 --> 01:08:55,001
psychological legal, economic

1705
01:08:58,717 --> 01:08:58,967
systems based abuse including

1706
01:08:59,384 --> 01:08:59,634
the weaponization of children

1707
01:09:02,784 --> 01:09:03,034
so custody, visitation and

1708
01:09:05,017 --> 01:09:05,267
exchanges can create predictable

1709
01:09:06,817 --> 01:09:07,067
points of continued access and

1710
01:09:07,484 --> 01:09:07,734
risk.

1711
01:09:10,751 --> 01:09:11,001
this context is really important

1712
01:09:13,017 --> 01:09:13,267
to consider sometimes victims

1713
01:09:16,717 --> 01:09:16,967
behavior that is actually rooted

1714
01:09:18,784 --> 01:09:19,034
in safety can be misread as

1715
01:09:20,584 --> 01:09:20,834
hostility or an unwillingness to

1716
01:09:21,251 --> 01:09:21,501
co parent.

1717
01:09:26,251 --> 01:09:26,501
such as of waiting direct

1718
01:09:27,184 --> 01:09:27,434
contact protecting their

1719
01:09:28,951 --> 01:09:29,201
address, requesting separate

1720
01:09:32,317 --> 01:09:32,567
arrivals strictly following a

1721
01:09:34,251 --> 01:09:34,501
court order they actually may be

1722
01:09:36,517 --> 01:09:36,767
strategies for victims to reduce

1723
01:09:37,184 --> 01:09:37,434
access and stay safe.

1724
01:09:41,017 --> 01:09:41,267
I remember working with a victim

1725
01:09:43,017 --> 01:09:43,267
where we safety planned around

1726
01:09:45,284 --> 01:09:45,534
exchange of children. We talked

1727
01:09:47,084 --> 01:09:47,334
about not passing the child's

1728
01:09:49,051 --> 01:09:49,301
belongings back and forth

1729
01:09:50,817 --> 01:09:51,067
because even something as simple

1730
01:09:54,251 --> 01:09:54,501
as a jacket or a lunchbox could

1731
01:09:54,884 --> 01:09:55,134
become another reason for

1732
01:09:55,451 --> 01:09:55,701
contact.

1733
01:09:58,484 --> 01:09:58,734
What looked like a disagreement

1734
01:10:00,584 --> 01:10:00,834
over belongings was for her

1735
01:10:01,117 --> 01:10:01,367
another avenue of access and

1736
01:10:01,784 --> 01:10:02,034
control.

1737
01:10:05,017 --> 01:10:05,267
and in domestic violence cases

1738
01:10:05,684 --> 01:10:05,934
the safety

1739
01:10:08,784 --> 01:10:09,034
of children is directly

1740
01:10:10,751 --> 01:10:11,001
correlated to the safety of the

1741
01:10:11,417 --> 01:10:11,667
adult victim.

1742
01:10:14,784 --> 01:10:15,034
So visitation cannot be

1743
01:10:16,751 --> 01:10:17,001
evaluated only by whether a

1744
01:10:18,551 --> 01:10:18,801
child appears physically safe

1745
01:10:20,551 --> 01:10:20,801
during a visit. We also have to

1746
01:10:22,284 --> 01:10:22,534
be asking whether the

1747
01:10:24,251 --> 01:10:24,501
arrangement creates additional

1748
01:10:26,784 --> 01:10:27,034
risk or continued control over

1749
01:10:27,451 --> 01:10:27,701
the non abusive parent.

1750
01:10:30,784 --> 01:10:31,034
We recently conducted a

1751
01:10:32,617 --> 01:10:32,867
listening session in our

1752
01:10:33,151 --> 01:10:33,401
domestic violence shelter

1753
01:10:36,517 --> 01:10:36,767
one survivor said dropping your

1754
01:10:38,284 --> 01:10:38,534
kids off to someone that hurts

1755
01:10:38,951 --> 01:10:39,201
you is scary.

1756
01:10:42,751 --> 01:10:43,001
for a survivor an exchange is

1757
01:10:44,517 --> 01:10:44,767
not necessarily a routine

1758
01:10:45,084 --> 01:10:45,334
parenting handoff

1759
01:10:48,784 --> 01:10:49,034
but it is also can be a required

1760
01:10:50,751 --> 01:10:51,001
point of access to the person

1761
01:10:51,417 --> 01:10:51,667
who hurt them

1762
01:10:54,817 --> 01:10:55,067
and that is why safety has to be

1763
01:10:56,284 --> 01:10:56,534
built into the structure not

1764
01:10:58,317 --> 01:10:58,567
assumed because contact is court

1765
01:10:59,017 --> 01:10:59,267
ordered

1766
01:11:00,751 --> 01:11:01,001
and that's gonna bring us to the

1767
01:11:01,417 --> 01:11:01,667
next question

1768
01:11:04,517 --> 01:11:04,767
what exactly do we mean by

1769
01:11:05,184 --> 01:11:05,434
supervised and who is doing the

1770
01:11:05,851 --> 01:11:06,101
supervision?

1771
01:11:14,551 --> 01:11:14,801
I don't know if you're able to

1772
01:11:15,217 --> 01:11:15,467
advance the line

1773
01:11:30,284 --> 01:11:30,534
just to preserve time I will

1774
01:11:31,051 --> 01:11:31,301
just keep talking and then

1775
01:11:32,351 --> 01:11:32,601
hopefully the slides will catch

1776
01:11:33,017 --> 01:11:33,267
up to us

1777
01:11:36,251 --> 01:11:36,501
but supervised can mean

1778
01:11:38,251 --> 01:11:38,501
different things. It can mean

1779
01:11:40,551 --> 01:11:40,801
informal supervision that might

1780
01:11:41,351 --> 01:11:41,601
look like a family member or a

1781
01:11:42,817 --> 01:11:43,067
friend who has very little

1782
01:11:43,451 --> 01:11:43,701
domestic violenceific training

1783
01:11:48,551 --> 01:11:48,801
limited structure and also

1784
01:11:49,151 --> 01:11:49,401
includes the potential for

1785
01:11:50,317 --> 01:11:50,567
family bias or pressure.

1786
01:11:54,251 --> 01:11:54,501
and our listening session that

1787
01:11:55,251 --> 01:11:55,501
we conducted recently, one woman

1788
01:11:56,817 --> 01:11:57,067
described having to turn her

1789
01:11:58,551 --> 01:11:58,801
children over to the abuses of

1790
01:12:00,751 --> 01:12:01,001
partners parents for visits and

1791
01:12:03,017 --> 01:12:03,267
she said it made me physically

1792
01:12:03,717 --> 01:12:03,967
ill every time

1793
01:12:08,284 --> 01:12:08,534
that is an important reminder

1794
01:12:09,084 --> 01:12:09,334
that simply having another adult

1795
01:12:11,084 --> 01:12:11,334
present does not necessarily

1796
01:12:11,751 --> 01:12:12,001
create safety

1797
01:12:16,551 --> 01:12:16,801
who is supervising matters and

1798
01:12:18,284 --> 01:12:18,534
it matters whether that person

1799
01:12:19,051 --> 01:12:19,301
understands coercive control

1800
01:12:22,551 --> 01:12:22,801
stalking, confidentiality and

1801
01:12:23,151 --> 01:12:23,401
safe exchange practices

1802
01:12:26,251 --> 01:12:26,501
and even when supervision is

1803
01:12:28,251 --> 01:12:28,501
appropriate staff can only

1804
01:12:29,217 --> 01:12:29,467
observe what happens within the

1805
01:12:30,984 --> 01:12:31,234
visit itself. Risk might still

1806
01:12:34,317 --> 01:12:34,567
happen before after or during

1807
01:12:34,984 --> 01:12:35,234
that contact.

1808
01:12:40,284 --> 01:12:40,534
Risk does not necessarily begin

1809
01:12:41,051 --> 01:12:41,301
and end during the supervised

1810
01:12:43,017 --> 01:12:43,267
visit as Anita just stated it

1811
01:12:44,751 --> 01:12:45,001
can arise during the exchange,

1812
01:12:46,517 --> 01:12:46,767
the transportation the

1813
01:12:48,484 --> 01:12:48,734
communication before or after

1814
01:12:50,317 --> 01:12:50,567
the visit or through information

1815
01:12:50,984 --> 01:12:51,234
and access gained during the

1816
01:12:51,651 --> 01:12:51,901
visit.

1817
01:12:54,284 --> 01:12:54,534
These risks do not always look

1818
01:12:56,517 --> 01:12:56,767
dramatic. In fact coercion is

1819
01:12:58,551 --> 01:12:58,801
often subtle. for example, a

1820
01:12:59,317 --> 01:12:59,567
person may wait near the

1821
01:13:00,817 --> 01:13:01,067
visitation site to identify the

1822
01:13:02,517 --> 01:13:02,767
victim's vehicle or learn a

1823
01:13:03,084 --> 01:13:03,334
routine

1824
01:13:06,251 --> 01:13:06,501
Technology can also be used to

1825
01:13:06,984 --> 01:13:07,234
track or stalk the victim

1826
01:13:08,484 --> 01:13:08,734
through a GPS tracker in a

1827
01:13:10,517 --> 01:13:10,767
diaper bag. the location

1828
01:13:12,251 --> 01:13:12,501
services on a child's smartwat

1829
01:13:14,284 --> 01:13:14,534
or access to shared accounts.

1830
01:13:16,284 --> 01:13:16,534
Children may be used to gather

1831
01:13:18,284 --> 01:13:18,534
information or carry messages a

1832
01:13:19,084 --> 01:13:19,334
child may be asked where the

1833
01:13:21,051 --> 01:13:21,301
survivor lives, works or spends

1834
01:13:24,251 --> 01:13:24,501
time and a phrase a gift or a

1835
01:13:25,251 --> 01:13:25,501
gesture that appears harmless to

1836
01:13:27,051 --> 01:13:27,301
the supervisor could actually

1837
01:13:28,817 --> 01:13:29,067
have a threatening meaning based

1838
01:13:30,617 --> 01:13:30,867
on the history of abuse like a

1839
01:13:31,251 --> 01:13:31,501
toy weapon

1840
01:13:34,251 --> 01:13:34,501
an incidentfree visit can tell

1841
01:13:35,051 --> 01:13:35,301
us that someone was able to

1842
01:13:37,051 --> 01:13:37,301
follow the rules within a highly

1843
01:13:40,251 --> 01:13:40,501
structured setting. It cannot by

1844
01:13:40,984 --> 01:13:41,234
itself tell us whether the

1845
01:13:42,551 --> 01:13:42,801
underlying pattern of coercion

1846
01:13:44,784 --> 01:13:45,034
stalking intimidation or abuse

1847
01:13:46,284 --> 01:13:46,534
has changed outside that

1848
01:13:48,551 --> 01:13:48,801
setting. These examples are why

1849
01:13:50,317 --> 01:13:50,567
supervised visitation cannot be

1850
01:13:52,284 --> 01:13:52,534
treated as a one time placement

1851
01:13:52,917 --> 01:13:53,167
decision. it requires

1852
01:13:54,817 --> 01:13:55,067
intentional safeguards and

1853
01:13:55,384 --> 01:13:55,634
ongoing attention to changing

1854
01:13:56,051 --> 01:13:56,301
risk.

1855
01:13:58,784 --> 01:13:59,034
if we're going to use supervised

1856
01:14:00,784 --> 01:14:01,034
visitation in domestic violence

1857
01:14:02,751 --> 01:14:03,001
cases the system requires

1858
01:14:04,484 --> 01:14:04,734
intentional and ongoing

1859
01:14:06,551 --> 01:14:06,801
safeguards. First screening must

1860
01:14:08,284 --> 01:14:08,534
go beyond whether there has been

1861
01:14:09,017 --> 01:14:09,267
a reported incident of physical

1862
01:14:11,017 --> 01:14:11,267
violence. it should assess

1863
01:14:13,017 --> 01:14:13,267
coercive control stalking,

1864
01:14:15,017 --> 01:14:15,267
lethality concerns post

1865
01:14:17,084 --> 01:14:17,334
separation abuse technology

1866
01:14:18,584 --> 01:14:18,834
facilitated abuse and the use of

1867
01:14:19,251 --> 01:14:19,501
the children.

1868
01:14:22,517 --> 01:14:22,767
Second risk must be reassessed

1869
01:14:24,517 --> 01:14:24,767
over time. An intake assessment

1870
01:14:26,951 --> 01:14:27,201
is only a snapshotreats stalking

1871
01:14:28,551 --> 01:14:28,801
behavior and access to

1872
01:14:30,284 --> 01:14:30,534
information can change.

1873
01:14:32,284 --> 01:14:32,534
Reassessment should not mean

1874
01:14:34,284 --> 01:14:34,534
that the supervision ends simply

1875
01:14:34,984 --> 01:14:35,234
because time has passed without

1876
01:14:38,284 --> 01:14:38,534
a documented incident. Finally

1877
01:14:39,017 --> 01:14:39,267
programs need trained staff,

1878
01:14:41,017 --> 01:14:41,267
careful documentation and formal

1879
01:14:42,517 --> 01:14:42,767
partnerships with domestic

1880
01:14:44,284 --> 01:14:44,534
violence victim service

1881
01:14:46,284 --> 01:14:46,534
providers so that safety

1882
01:14:46,751 --> 01:14:47,001
concerns are recognized and

1883
01:14:47,317 --> 01:14:47,567
acted upon.

1884
01:14:50,317 --> 01:14:50,567
especially where there has been

1885
01:14:52,284 --> 01:14:52,534
significant violence stalking,

1886
01:14:54,284 --> 01:14:54,534
coercive control or ongoing

1887
01:14:55,051 --> 01:14:55,301
intimidation and fear, the

1888
01:14:56,784 --> 01:14:57,034
question should be whether the

1889
01:14:58,551 --> 01:14:58,801
abuser has demonstrated

1890
01:15:00,551 --> 01:15:00,801
meaningful behavior change and

1891
01:15:02,784 --> 01:15:03,034
taken responsibility not simply

1892
01:15:03,484 --> 01:15:03,734
whether they were able to

1893
01:15:05,017 --> 01:15:05,267
contain inappropriate behavior

1894
01:15:06,551 --> 01:15:06,801
while being supervised and

1895
01:15:07,084 --> 01:15:07,334
monitored

1896
01:15:09,284 --> 01:15:09,534
Decisions about reducing

1897
01:15:11,084 --> 01:15:11,334
supervision should be based on a

1898
01:15:14,284 --> 01:15:14,534
clear individualized indicator

1899
01:15:15,051 --> 01:15:15,301
as safety and change rather than

1900
01:15:18,284 --> 01:15:18,534
a series of uneventful events

1901
01:15:19,017 --> 01:15:19,267
these measures help ensure that

1902
01:15:21,051 --> 01:15:21,301
safety concerns are recognized

1903
01:15:22,817 --> 01:15:23,067
and addressed not minimized as

1904
01:15:24,384 --> 01:15:24,634
ordinary co parenting conflict

1905
01:15:27,017 --> 01:15:27,267
but safeguards and assessments

1906
01:15:30,251 --> 01:15:30,501
only matter if concerns lead to

1907
01:15:31,251 --> 01:15:31,501
a meaningful response that

1908
01:15:33,084 --> 01:15:33,334
brings us to what survivors

1909
01:15:35,051 --> 01:15:35,301
rather identified most clearly

1910
01:15:36,317 --> 01:15:36,567
and that is accountability.

1911
01:15:41,017 --> 01:15:41,267
it is really important that we

1912
01:15:43,084 --> 01:15:43,334
center survivor voices at this

1913
01:15:43,751 --> 01:15:44,001
discussion

1914
01:15:48,251 --> 01:15:48,501
Throughout my time working with

1915
01:15:50,251 --> 01:15:50,501
victims over the last couple of

1916
01:15:51,251 --> 01:15:51,501
decades and based on a recent

1917
01:15:53,017 --> 01:15:53,267
listening session specific to

1918
01:15:53,717 --> 01:15:53,967
this topic

1919
01:15:59,217 --> 01:15:59,467
we ask and we assess what is

1920
01:16:02,284 --> 01:16:02,534
going to make visitation feel

1921
01:16:03,017 --> 01:16:03,267
safer for your survivors of

1922
01:16:04,751 --> 01:16:05,001
domestic violence and the

1923
01:16:06,351 --> 01:16:06,601
clearest theme is

1924
01:16:06,784 --> 01:16:07,034
accountability.

1925
01:16:08,851 --> 01:16:09,101
and when they talk about

1926
01:16:09,417 --> 01:16:09,667
accountability

1927
01:16:12,517 --> 01:16:12,767
they mean what happens if

1928
01:16:14,784 --> 01:16:15,034
someone uses the child to gather

1929
01:16:16,784 --> 01:16:17,034
information. what happens is

1930
01:16:18,817 --> 01:16:19,067
staff observe intimidation or

1931
01:16:19,484 --> 01:16:19,734
concerning changes in behavior

1932
01:16:22,817 --> 01:16:23,067
what happens when the survivor

1933
01:16:24,351 --> 01:16:24,601
reports news stocking or threads

1934
01:16:26,984 --> 01:16:27,234
c co un t ability means

1935
01:16:28,717 --> 01:16:28,967
addressing those concerns with a

1936
01:16:30,984 --> 01:16:31,234
meaningful response, not simply

1937
01:16:32,617 --> 01:16:32,867
that the next visit will proceed

1938
01:16:33,251 --> 01:16:33,501
unchanged

1939
01:16:36,517 --> 01:16:36,767
and that is why success should

1940
01:16:38,751 --> 01:16:39,001
not be measured likeammmy said

1941
01:16:40,984 --> 01:16:41,234
by only when whether a visit

1942
01:16:43,251 --> 01:16:43,501
occurs it should be measured by

1943
01:16:44,784 --> 01:16:45,034
whether the structure reduces

1944
01:16:47,051 --> 01:16:47,301
physical and emotional risk for

1945
01:16:48,817 --> 01:16:49,067
both the nonoffending parent and

1946
01:16:49,484 --> 01:16:49,734
the child.

1947
01:16:52,517 --> 01:16:52,767
and from the domestic violence

1948
01:16:54,284 --> 01:16:54,534
field we would we would urge

1949
01:16:54,917 --> 01:16:55,167
this following four things

1950
01:16:56,784 --> 01:16:57,034
the importance of

1951
01:16:58,517 --> 01:16:58,767
differentiating coercive control

1952
01:16:59,184 --> 01:16:59,434
from high conflict parenting

1953
01:17:02,784 --> 01:17:03,034
the use of domestic violence

1954
01:17:06,351 --> 01:17:06,601
informed screening and ongoing

1955
01:17:06,984 --> 01:17:07,234
risk assessment

1956
01:17:09,017 --> 01:17:09,267
building specialized domestic

1957
01:17:10,751 --> 01:17:11,001
violence expertise and

1958
01:17:12,517 --> 01:17:12,767
partnerships with victim service

1959
01:17:14,517 --> 01:17:14,767
providers and measuring the

1960
01:17:16,284 --> 01:17:16,534
safety and success by whether

1961
01:17:16,984 --> 01:17:17,234
the structure reduces that

1962
01:17:18,751 --> 01:17:19,001
physical and emotional safety

1963
01:17:20,751 --> 01:17:21,001
risk for the survivor and their

1964
01:17:22,551 --> 01:17:22,801
child not simply whether a visit

1965
01:17:23,217 --> 01:17:23,467
occurred.

1966
01:17:26,251 --> 01:17:26,501
so the question is not only

1967
01:17:26,817 --> 01:17:27,067
whether contact can be

1968
01:17:28,784 --> 01:17:29,034
supervised is whether contact

1969
01:17:30,251 --> 01:17:30,501
can be structured without

1970
01:17:31,151 --> 01:17:31,401
becoming another avenue for

1971
01:17:31,717 --> 01:17:31,967
abuse.

1972
01:17:36,317 --> 01:17:36,567
What questions might there be

1973
01:17:42,901 --> 01:17:43,151
thank you so much

1974
01:17:46,517 --> 01:17:46,767
I was writing everything down as

1975
01:17:47,151 --> 01:17:47,401
fast as they could

1976
01:17:50,784 --> 01:17:51,034
if you could go back to the who

1977
01:17:51,484 --> 01:17:51,734
is supervising slide

1978
01:17:59,284 --> 01:17:59,534
I think this really highlights

1979
01:18:02,284 --> 01:18:02,534
why we're gathered here today

1980
01:18:05,051 --> 01:18:05,301
and and as we were building

1981
01:18:07,084 --> 01:18:07,334
out our agenda and I'm grateful

1982
01:18:10,551 --> 01:18:10,801
that you all agreed to come

1983
01:18:11,284 --> 01:18:11,534
and present from the research

1984
01:18:14,784 --> 01:18:15,034
that you all collect what is the

1985
01:18:16,784 --> 01:18:17,034
most meaningful change I mean I

1986
01:18:19,017 --> 01:18:19,267
I wrote down your last four

1987
01:18:22,284 --> 01:18:22,534
recommendations from the ladies

1988
01:18:23,251 --> 01:18:23,501
and so I'm just wondering if you

1989
01:18:26,351 --> 01:18:26,601
were to recommend a policy

1990
01:18:26,884 --> 01:18:27,134
change specifically

1991
01:18:28,784 --> 01:18:29,034
around this what would that look

1992
01:18:29,417 --> 01:18:29,667
like?

1993
01:18:35,084 --> 01:18:35,334
I think the policy changes that

1994
01:18:36,784 --> 01:18:37,034
we would really consider and

1995
01:18:38,817 --> 01:18:39,067
recommend are really rooted in

1996
01:18:39,484 --> 01:18:39,734
these four areas

1997
01:18:44,517 --> 01:18:44,767
en er hicks revolt

1998
01:18:48,751 --> 01:18:49,001
thank you Mr Chair and so then I

1999
01:18:50,751 --> 01:18:51,001
mean on the question of

2000
01:18:51,284 --> 01:18:51,534
accountability

2001
01:18:56,551 --> 01:18:56,801
when the women were expressing

2002
01:18:57,151 --> 01:18:57,401
that there should be

2003
01:18:59,017 --> 01:18:59,267
accountability if there are

2004
01:19:02,251 --> 01:19:02,501
violations you know that

2005
01:19:04,484 --> 01:19:04,734
would escalate behavior or

2006
01:19:06,284 --> 01:19:06,534
intimidation or continued

2007
01:19:08,284 --> 01:19:08,534
harassment. what does that

2008
01:19:10,317 --> 01:19:10,567
accountability look like and

2009
01:19:10,884 --> 01:19:11,134
from whom

2010
01:19:12,584 --> 01:19:12,834
I think

2011
01:19:18,484 --> 01:19:18,734
sometimes taking a break from

2012
01:19:20,784 --> 01:19:21,034
having access to the abusive

2013
01:19:23,017 --> 01:19:23,267
parent might be the most helpful

2014
01:19:23,684 --> 01:19:23,934
thing to the child.

2015
01:19:24,984 --> 01:19:25,234
and that is not

2016
01:19:26,717 --> 01:19:26,967
said lightly

2017
01:19:28,484 --> 01:19:28,734
but

2018
01:19:33,051 --> 01:19:33,301
if the potential for safety

2019
01:19:36,251 --> 01:19:36,501
to be compromised is directly

2020
01:19:38,284 --> 01:19:38,534
tied to the abuser having access

2021
01:19:40,484 --> 01:19:40,734
to the children I think there

2022
01:19:42,751 --> 01:19:43,001
are times when it is appropriate

2023
01:19:44,884 --> 01:19:45,134
to suspend visitation and not

2024
01:19:45,551 --> 01:19:45,801
just rely on supervision.

2025
01:19:49,017 --> 01:19:49,267
senator hicks for another

2026
01:19:54,884 --> 01:19:55,134
other members of the committee

2027
01:20:00,884 --> 01:20:01,134
so in the situation that you're

2028
01:20:01,584 --> 01:20:01,834
saying you know

2029
01:20:04,751 --> 01:20:05,001
limitation and or cessation of

2030
01:20:07,017 --> 01:20:07,267
visitation how how would you go

2031
01:20:08,751 --> 01:20:09,001
about bringing that evidence and

2032
01:20:10,517 --> 01:20:10,767
who would be responsible in the

2033
01:20:11,184 --> 01:20:11,434
cases that you're proposing this

2034
01:20:11,817 --> 01:20:12,067
in

2035
01:20:14,751 --> 01:20:15,001
because I'm sure you know are

2036
01:20:16,517 --> 01:20:16,767
these DHS cases where we're

2037
01:20:18,251 --> 01:20:18,501
talking state custody or these

2038
01:20:20,317 --> 01:20:20,567
general divorce family law cases

2039
01:20:20,984 --> 01:20:21,234
that you're

2040
01:20:22,484 --> 01:20:22,734
recommending this policy change

2041
01:20:23,184 --> 01:20:23,434
for

2042
01:20:26,517 --> 01:20:26,767
I think just general cases is

2043
01:20:27,117 --> 01:20:27,367
kind of what I had in mind. I

2044
01:20:29,017 --> 01:20:29,267
don't know about you Anita and I

2045
01:20:30,517 --> 01:20:30,767
think we're looking for

2046
01:20:32,251 --> 01:20:32,501
meaningful change we're looking

2047
01:20:34,517 --> 01:20:34,767
for an abuser taking

2048
01:20:36,517 --> 01:20:36,767
accountability for their actions

2049
01:20:38,517 --> 01:20:38,767
and recognizing that what they

2050
01:20:39,151 --> 01:20:39,401
have done has caused harm to

2051
01:20:41,017 --> 01:20:41,267
their family and taking specific

2052
01:20:42,317 --> 01:20:42,567
steps to stop causing that harm

2053
01:20:46,717 --> 01:20:46,967
and I think the accountability

2054
01:20:48,951 --> 01:20:49,201
can extend to both DhS and

2055
01:20:52,484 --> 01:20:52,734
family courts and I also

2056
01:20:54,317 --> 01:20:54,567
think that accountability looks

2057
01:20:54,984 --> 01:20:55,234
like

2058
01:20:58,251 --> 01:20:58,501
victims not being punished by

2059
01:21:01,017 --> 01:21:01,267
systems who are choosing tour

2060
01:21:06,284 --> 01:21:06,534
utilize protective capacity to

2061
01:21:07,017 --> 01:21:07,267
keep themselves and their child

2062
01:21:10,251 --> 01:21:10,501
safe but maybe through the lens

2063
01:21:10,984 --> 01:21:11,234
of a court order it looks like

2064
01:21:12,717 --> 01:21:12,967
they are being uncooperative or

2065
01:21:16,717 --> 01:21:16,967
not abiding by a court order and

2066
01:21:18,551 --> 01:21:18,801
then they they face a lot of

2067
01:21:20,317 --> 01:21:20,567
consequences negative

2068
01:21:20,817 --> 01:21:21,067
consequences from systems

2069
01:21:24,251 --> 01:21:24,501
or the domestic violence is not

2070
01:21:24,917 --> 01:21:25,167
acknowledged and it just is

2071
01:21:25,451 --> 01:21:25,701
labeled as a high conflict case.

2072
01:21:30,751 --> 01:21:31,001
so in those situations what is

2073
01:21:32,751 --> 01:21:33,001
your recommendation under the

2074
01:21:34,784 --> 01:21:35,034
current system for how this

2075
01:21:36,517 --> 01:21:36,767
would be brought forward and

2076
01:21:38,517 --> 01:21:38,767
just a court filing of a motion

2077
01:21:40,284 --> 01:21:40,534
in the civil case is a

2078
01:21:42,284 --> 01:21:42,534
recommendation of filing police

2079
01:21:44,284 --> 01:21:44,534
reports because of abuse how

2080
01:21:44,917 --> 01:21:45,167
would those be investigated?

2081
01:21:46,484 --> 01:21:46,734
what would be the next steps

2082
01:21:47,051 --> 01:21:47,301
within

2083
01:21:49,084 --> 01:21:49,334
I think we'd like to work with

2084
01:21:49,751 --> 01:21:50,001
Judge Byer

2085
01:21:52,851 --> 01:21:53,101
and judgedge conyers on on some

2086
01:21:53,517 --> 01:21:53,767
of those recommendations

2087
01:21:58,751 --> 01:21:59,001
and then going back I guess to

2088
01:22:00,484 --> 01:22:00,734
what Senator Hicks had brought

2089
01:22:02,784 --> 01:22:03,034
up about who would be supervised

2090
01:22:04,617 --> 01:22:04,867
in there you know who qualifies

2091
01:22:05,317 --> 01:22:05,567
as supervised

2092
01:22:06,851 --> 01:22:07,101
for those visitations

2093
01:22:12,251 --> 01:22:12,501
do you see that there is a need

2094
01:22:14,317 --> 01:22:14,567
for no family involvement that

2095
01:22:16,517 --> 01:22:16,767
that can't be an option. how

2096
01:22:18,517 --> 01:22:18,767
would other people get

2097
01:22:20,551 --> 01:22:20,801
interested into this or we get

2098
01:22:22,784 --> 01:22:23,034
them in especially you know

2099
01:22:23,351 --> 01:22:23,601
within budget constraints that

2100
01:22:24,017 --> 01:22:24,267
we have

2101
01:22:26,784 --> 01:22:27,034
think this is where the victim

2102
01:22:29,017 --> 01:22:29,267
voice comes into play and asking

2103
01:22:32,517 --> 01:22:32,767
the the non abusing parent who

2104
01:22:33,117 --> 01:22:33,367
is safe who is a safe supervisor

2105
01:22:40,284 --> 01:22:40,534
I think family can be safe

2106
01:22:41,284 --> 01:22:41,534
supervisors but I think the

2107
01:22:42,817 --> 01:22:43,067
importance of assessing that

2108
01:22:44,784 --> 01:22:45,034
very thoroughly and working

2109
01:22:46,784 --> 01:22:47,034
collaboratively with other

2110
01:22:48,517 --> 01:22:48,767
systems who have intersected

2111
01:22:50,517 --> 01:22:50,767
with the family can really be

2112
01:22:54,517 --> 01:22:54,767
eye opening and telling to some

2113
01:22:55,184 --> 01:22:55,434
of the potential risks and

2114
01:22:55,717 --> 01:22:55,967
benefits that might go along

2115
01:22:56,351 --> 01:22:56,601
with that

2116
01:23:00,517 --> 01:23:00,767
any further questions

2117
01:23:03,051 --> 01:23:03,301
comments Senator Hicks

2118
01:23:07,017 --> 01:23:07,267
thank you Mr Chair thank you all

2119
01:23:10,251 --> 01:23:10,501
so much for joining us. I

2120
01:23:11,251 --> 01:23:11,501
know this is not a light topic

2121
01:23:13,017 --> 01:23:13,267
for a Monday afternoon so

2122
01:23:14,551 --> 01:23:14,801
again I appreciate you all

2123
01:23:17,051 --> 01:23:17,301
sharing your expertise. next

2124
01:23:19,017 --> 01:23:19,267
we're joined by Gwendolyn

2125
01:23:20,284 --> 01:23:20,534
Clegg

2126
01:23:22,484 --> 01:23:22,734
with the office of Family

2127
01:23:23,051 --> 01:23:23,301
Representation

2128
01:23:38,851 --> 01:23:39,101
there you go

2129
01:23:43,084 --> 01:23:43,334
thank you senator Hicks and

2130
01:23:45,051 --> 01:23:45,301
members of the committee

2131
01:23:47,017 --> 01:23:47,267
thank you for inviting me today

2132
01:23:49,051 --> 01:23:49,301
to explain what the Oklahoma

2133
01:23:50,784 --> 01:23:51,034
office the family representation

2134
01:23:52,817 --> 01:23:53,067
is what we do what we were

2135
01:23:54,817 --> 01:23:55,067
entrusted with in our mission

2136
01:23:56,817 --> 01:23:57,067
from the legislature. The

2137
01:23:57,317 --> 01:23:57,567
Oklahoma Office of Family

2138
01:24:00,284 --> 01:24:00,534
Representation came into being

2139
01:24:02,817 --> 01:24:03,067
in June of2023 when our bill

2140
01:24:04,551 --> 01:24:04,801
made it through the

2141
01:24:06,251 --> 01:24:06,501
legislature and we were

2142
01:24:09,051 --> 01:24:09,301
established under Titleen

2143
01:24:10,317 --> 01:24:10,567
Section 801 and

2144
01:24:13,017 --> 01:24:13,267
it is the family representation

2145
01:24:16,284 --> 01:24:16,534
advocacy actct and programme so

2146
01:24:18,751 --> 01:24:19,001
the acronym FAP is kind of

2147
01:24:20,751 --> 01:24:21,001
thrown around a lot and it's not

2148
01:24:22,984 --> 01:24:23,234
an easy acronym to say correctly

2149
01:24:26,584 --> 01:24:26,834
so we have we are a

2150
01:24:30,284 --> 01:24:30,534
program of the administration

2151
01:24:32,517 --> 01:24:32,767
office of the courts and the

2152
01:24:33,117 --> 01:24:33,367
administration office of the

2153
01:24:35,051 --> 01:24:35,301
courts contracted with legal aid

2154
01:24:36,984 --> 01:24:37,234
Services of Oklahoma to build

2155
01:24:38,784 --> 01:24:39,034
the statewide office of parent

2156
01:24:42,251 --> 01:24:42,501
and childpresentation and AOC

2157
01:24:44,284 --> 01:24:44,534
asked that we brand the

2158
01:24:46,751 --> 01:24:47,001
office with a name and with a

2159
01:24:48,717 --> 01:24:48,967
logo and so you'll see that in a

2160
01:24:50,484 --> 01:24:50,734
in a minute but we are the

2161
01:24:52,251 --> 01:24:52,501
Oklahoma office the familymire

2162
01:24:52,951 --> 01:24:53,201
representation and we are

2163
01:24:56,851 --> 01:24:57,101
regularly referred to as OFR and

2164
01:24:57,517 --> 01:24:57,767
I am the executive

2165
01:25:00,384 --> 01:25:00,634
director of the Oklahoma Office

2166
01:25:01,117 --> 01:25:01,367
of Family Representation and a

2167
01:25:04,284 --> 01:25:04,534
little bit about me I have been

2168
01:25:08,251 --> 01:25:08,501
practicing law for26 years um24

2169
01:25:09,017 --> 01:25:09,267
of those years have been in

2170
01:25:11,217 --> 01:25:11,467
juvenile deprived actions. I

2171
01:25:12,984 --> 01:25:13,234
have represented every single

2172
01:25:16,251 --> 01:25:16,501
side of a juvenile deprived case

2173
01:25:18,951 --> 01:25:19,201
except for as an assistant DA so

2174
01:25:20,951 --> 01:25:21,201
I've represented mostly parents

2175
01:25:22,984 --> 01:25:23,234
I've represented children in a

2176
01:25:24,517 --> 01:25:24,767
very rural county in northeast

2177
01:25:26,517 --> 01:25:26,767
Oklahoma. I have represented

2178
01:25:27,151 --> 01:25:27,401
foster parents grandparents

2179
01:25:30,917 --> 01:25:31,167
aunts and uncles in adoptions

2180
01:25:32,984 --> 01:25:33,234
in a guardianships and in

2181
01:25:34,317 --> 01:25:34,567
juvenile deprived proceedings

2182
01:25:42,684 --> 01:25:42,934
So the Oklahoma office of Family

2183
01:25:44,917 --> 01:25:45,167
Representation the purpose

2184
01:25:46,651 --> 01:25:46,901
that the legislature gave us in

2185
01:25:48,851 --> 01:25:49,101
our bill was to ensure uniform

2186
01:25:50,384 --> 01:25:50,634
and high quality legal

2187
01:25:52,651 --> 01:25:52,901
representation for children and

2188
01:25:54,217 --> 01:25:54,467
indigent parents, Indian

2189
01:25:56,417 --> 01:25:56,667
custodians and legal guardians

2190
01:25:58,417 --> 01:25:58,667
in juvenile deprived actions

2191
01:26:00,484 --> 01:26:00,734
only a lot of people like to ask

2192
01:26:01,117 --> 01:26:01,367
to appoint our lawyers to

2193
01:26:02,851 --> 01:26:03,101
adoptions and guardianships and

2194
01:26:05,051 --> 01:26:05,301
we do not work in those areas

2195
01:26:05,717 --> 01:26:05,967
of law

2196
01:26:12,851 --> 01:26:13,101
OFR was needed to overcome

2197
01:26:14,651 --> 01:26:14,901
these barriers that were rampant

2198
01:26:16,651 --> 01:26:16,901
across the state of Oklahoma for

2199
01:26:18,317 --> 01:26:18,567
decades which was

2200
01:26:20,917 --> 01:26:21,167
barriers to ineffective

2201
01:26:22,684 --> 01:26:22,934
representation where a very high

2202
01:26:24,651 --> 01:26:24,901
caseloads for children's lawyers

2203
01:26:26,617 --> 01:26:26,867
and parent lawyers there was a

2204
01:26:28,451 --> 01:26:28,701
lack of centralized oversight no

2205
01:26:30,217 --> 01:26:30,467
one oversaw what these lawyers

2206
01:26:32,451 --> 01:26:32,701
were doing and how their

2207
01:26:34,217 --> 01:26:34,467
representation of these families

2208
01:26:36,851 --> 01:26:37,101
was and there was a lack of

2209
01:26:38,651 --> 01:26:38,901
support services and practice

2210
01:26:40,651 --> 01:26:40,901
resources for the lawyers there

2211
01:26:44,217 --> 01:26:44,467
was a lack of appellate practice

2212
01:26:44,951 --> 01:26:45,201
there was no performance

2213
01:26:46,851 --> 01:26:47,101
oversight there was no complaint

2214
01:26:48,417 --> 01:26:48,667
or complement process for the

2215
01:26:49,084 --> 01:26:49,334
lawyers

2216
01:26:50,684 --> 01:26:50,934
there was inadequate attorney

2217
01:26:52,651 --> 01:26:52,901
compensation. there were no

2218
01:26:54,617 --> 01:26:54,867
practice standards for child

2219
01:26:56,217 --> 01:26:56,467
representation in the state of

2220
01:26:58,817 --> 01:26:59,067
Oklahoma there were parent

2221
01:27:00,917 --> 01:27:01,167
standards of representation but

2222
01:27:02,851 --> 01:27:03,101
not children there was a lack

2223
01:27:04,451 --> 01:27:04,701
of dedicated attorney

2224
01:27:06,217 --> 01:27:06,467
recruitment there were attorney

2225
01:27:08,417 --> 01:27:08,667
desserts in our rural areas and

2226
01:27:10,417 --> 01:27:10,667
there were differences in rural

2227
01:27:12,451 --> 01:27:12,701
and metro practice issues

2228
01:27:14,851 --> 01:27:15,101
childrenldren and parents in the

2229
01:27:16,851 --> 01:27:17,101
state of Oklahoma enjoy an

2230
01:27:18,417 --> 01:27:18,667
Oklahoma constitutional and

2231
01:27:22,217 --> 01:27:22,467
a statutory right to counsel in

2232
01:27:24,284 --> 01:27:24,534
deprived cases in the trial

2233
01:27:24,851 --> 01:27:25,101
court and the appellate courts.

2234
01:27:30,417 --> 01:27:30,667
OFR has solved all these

2235
01:27:32,251 --> 01:27:32,501
barriers in the counties where

2236
01:27:34,451 --> 01:27:34,701
we are implemented the family

2237
01:27:35,084 --> 01:27:35,334
representation and advocacy

2238
01:27:36,884 --> 01:27:37,134
actct and programme statute

2239
01:27:38,651 --> 01:27:38,901
requires written standards of

2240
01:27:40,217 --> 01:27:40,467
practice which the Oklahoma

2241
01:27:42,217 --> 01:27:42,467
Supreme task forcece that

2242
01:27:46,417 --> 01:27:46,667
sunlighted in2024ro we have

2243
01:27:48,684 --> 01:27:48,934
oversight of our contractors

2244
01:27:50,217 --> 01:27:50,467
almost daily we have managing

2245
01:27:52,651 --> 01:27:52,901
attorneys overseeing the

2246
01:27:54,684 --> 01:27:54,934
practice of the lawyers that are

2247
01:27:55,317 --> 01:27:55,567
under them and that we have

2248
01:27:56,651 --> 01:27:56,901
contracted with we have support

2249
01:27:57,317 --> 01:27:57,567
through these manag

2250
01:28:00,651 --> 01:28:00,901
ing attorneys of our contractors

2251
01:28:02,617 --> 01:28:02,867
we have prolific training for

2252
01:28:04,651 --> 01:28:04,901
these contractors these

2253
01:28:06,451 --> 01:28:06,701
contractors are required by law

2254
01:28:08,217 --> 01:28:08,467
to have an annual performance

2255
01:28:10,217 --> 01:28:10,467
review and they are also

2256
01:28:10,751 --> 01:28:11,001
required under two different

2257
01:28:12,651 --> 01:28:12,901
statutes of six hours of

2258
01:28:14,417 --> 01:28:14,667
juvenile deprived relevantcLE

2259
01:28:15,017 --> 01:28:15,267
each year for attorney

2260
01:28:15,551 --> 01:28:15,801
contractors.

2261
01:28:21,184 --> 01:28:21,434
Training is mentioned in the

2262
01:28:22,851 --> 01:28:23,101
family representation and

2263
01:28:25,017 --> 01:28:25,267
advocacy actct ingrame statute4

2264
01:28:26,751 --> 01:28:27,001
times it's mentioned more than

2265
01:28:28,517 --> 01:28:28,767
anything else in that statute.

2266
01:28:30,784 --> 01:28:31,034
So the legislature obviously

2267
01:28:32,284 --> 01:28:32,534
thought that was a big problem

2268
01:28:34,551 --> 01:28:34,801
and wanted to solve it and we

2269
01:28:36,284 --> 01:28:36,534
are here to do that so we ensure

2270
01:28:37,117 --> 01:28:37,367
all of our attorney contractors

2271
01:28:40,251 --> 01:28:40,501
comply with both statutes for

2272
01:28:42,284 --> 01:28:42,534
their CLE we also make sure they

2273
01:28:42,951 --> 01:28:43,201
comply with the Oklahoma

2274
01:28:43,517 --> 01:28:43,767
standards of practicetice for

2275
01:28:44,817 --> 01:28:45,067
attorneys representing parents

2276
01:28:46,817 --> 01:28:47,067
and children those standards are

2277
01:28:48,317 --> 01:28:48,567
on our webpage and you can find

2278
01:28:48,984 --> 01:28:49,234
them there

2279
01:28:51,317 --> 01:28:51,567
OFR provides high quality legal

2280
01:28:54,517 --> 01:28:54,767
training for our contractors

2281
01:28:56,584 --> 01:28:56,834
and when I say contractors

2282
01:28:57,117 --> 01:28:57,367
there's another slide's gonna

2283
01:28:58,784 --> 01:28:59,034
come up and tell you what that

2284
01:29:00,817 --> 01:29:01,067
is but it's attorneys social

2285
01:29:02,517 --> 01:29:02,767
workers' youth and parent

2286
01:29:04,551 --> 01:29:04,801
mentors and so last year for

2287
01:29:06,551 --> 01:29:06,801
state fiscal year25 we provided

2288
01:29:12,551 --> 01:29:12,801
over 188 free CLE hours to our

2289
01:29:14,784 --> 01:29:15,034
attorney contractors as well as

2290
01:29:16,517 --> 01:29:16,767
our social workers and mentorsri

2291
01:29:18,351 --> 01:29:18,601
to OFR the only way attor

2292
01:29:20,984 --> 01:29:21,234
ney practicing juvenile deprived

2293
01:29:22,784 --> 01:29:23,034
law could get continuing legal

2294
01:29:25,017 --> 01:29:25,267
education was to tend the court

2295
01:29:26,784 --> 01:29:27,034
improvement programme

2296
01:29:28,751 --> 01:29:29,001
conference every fall that was

2297
01:29:30,784 --> 01:29:31,034
it 12 hours and all those 12

2298
01:29:32,284 --> 01:29:32,534
hours weren't dedicated to

2299
01:29:33,017 --> 01:29:33,267
attorney training it was

2300
01:29:34,984 --> 01:29:35,234
dedicated to DHS training, Icw

2301
01:29:38,284 --> 01:29:38,534
training, judged training so

2302
01:29:38,884 --> 01:29:39,134
even those lawyers attending

2303
01:29:40,751 --> 01:29:41,001
there wouldn't receive tw2 solid

2304
01:29:43,017 --> 01:29:43,267
hours of attorney training to

2305
01:29:44,951 --> 01:29:45,201
practice in this area of law

2306
01:29:46,584 --> 01:29:46,834
this area of law is very

2307
01:29:48,384 --> 01:29:48,634
nuanced. there's a lot of folks

2308
01:29:49,017 --> 01:29:49,267
that think they can practice

2309
01:29:49,684 --> 01:29:49,934
criminal

2310
01:29:50,851 --> 01:29:51,101
law or family law and just run

2311
01:29:52,584 --> 01:29:52,834
into a courtroom with a file and

2312
01:29:54,251 --> 01:29:54,501
practice this the of law you

2313
01:29:54,884 --> 01:29:55,134
cannot do that effectively

2314
01:29:59,051 --> 01:29:59,301
we also provide 16 hours of

2315
01:30:00,551 --> 01:30:00,801
fundamental training for our

2316
01:30:02,551 --> 01:30:02,801
attorney contractors and they

2317
01:30:04,517 --> 01:30:04,767
must have that done before or

2318
01:30:06,251 --> 01:30:06,501
during the 1st 90 days of taking

2319
01:30:08,517 --> 01:30:08,767
a contract with us. We also

2320
01:30:10,284 --> 01:30:10,534
provide 8+ hours of fundamental

2321
01:30:10,984 --> 01:30:11,234
training for our social workers

2322
01:30:14,284 --> 01:30:14,534
and our mentors and we only

2323
01:30:16,251 --> 01:30:16,501
contract with master's level

2324
01:30:18,251 --> 01:30:18,501
social workers for a reason.

2325
01:30:20,251 --> 01:30:20,501
it's because of their training

2326
01:30:22,551 --> 01:30:22,801
and expertise OFR provides

2327
01:30:24,284 --> 01:30:24,534
additional trainings throughout

2328
01:30:26,517 --> 01:30:26,767
the year on domestic violence

2329
01:30:27,184 --> 01:30:27,434
housing and trauma in

2330
01:30:28,917 --> 01:30:29,167
formed practice. Our trainings

2331
01:30:30,517 --> 01:30:30,767
are on our website and anyone

2332
01:30:33,051 --> 01:30:33,301
can join our trainings and

2333
01:30:34,784 --> 01:30:35,034
some of our trainings are

2334
01:30:36,551 --> 01:30:36,801
recorded and anyone can watch

2335
01:30:38,751 --> 01:30:39,001
them on their own time but we

2336
01:30:39,417 --> 01:30:39,667
can't give youclA credit if you

2337
01:30:40,084 --> 01:30:40,334
just watch them

2338
01:30:46,284 --> 01:30:46,534
OfR contracts like I was saying

2339
01:30:47,017 --> 01:30:47,267
with attorneys master's level

2340
01:30:48,517 --> 01:30:48,767
social workers and mentors to

2341
01:30:50,751 --> 01:30:51,001
provide high effective and high

2342
01:30:52,551 --> 01:30:52,801
quality legal representation

2343
01:30:54,284 --> 01:30:54,534
high quality legal

2344
01:30:56,284 --> 01:30:56,534
representation involves the use

2345
01:30:58,551 --> 01:30:58,801
of interdisciplinary teams and

2346
01:31:00,284 --> 01:31:00,534
interdisciplinary team for a

2347
01:31:02,751 --> 01:31:03,001
parent is an attorney a master's

2348
01:31:05,284 --> 01:31:05,534
level social worker and a parent

2349
01:31:06,784 --> 01:31:07,034
mentor someone who has survived

2350
01:31:08,817 --> 01:31:09,067
this very system and has come

2351
01:31:10,817 --> 01:31:11,067
back around to assist a parent

2352
01:31:12,551 --> 01:31:12,801
getting to go through this

2353
01:31:13,084 --> 01:31:13,334
system for a youth

2354
01:31:15,084 --> 01:31:15,334
it involves the youth attorney,

2355
01:31:16,984 --> 01:31:17,234
a master's level social worker

2356
01:31:20,551 --> 01:31:20,801
and a youth mentor and adult who

2357
01:31:22,751 --> 01:31:23,001
was a child in the foster care

2358
01:31:24,517 --> 01:31:24,767
system to help children

2359
01:31:26,284 --> 01:31:26,534
navigate the system that they

2360
01:31:26,984 --> 01:31:27,234
are in now the foster care

2361
01:31:30,284 --> 01:31:30,534
system OFR is currently

2362
01:31:32,284 --> 01:31:32,534
implemented in51 counties which

2363
01:31:34,484 --> 01:31:34,734
equals66% of the state of

2364
01:31:36,551 --> 01:31:36,801
Oklahomay November 1st we will

2365
01:31:40,284 --> 01:31:40,534
implement se7 more counties and

2366
01:31:42,517 --> 01:31:42,767
that will be leaving only 9

2367
01:31:43,051 --> 01:31:43,301
counties left to implement so

2368
01:31:44,651 --> 01:31:44,901
a high level of

2369
01:31:48,317 --> 01:31:48,567
counties will be implemented by

2370
01:31:48,984 --> 01:31:49,234
the end of this year

2371
01:31:52,551 --> 01:31:52,801
at this time we are contracted

2372
01:31:54,784 --> 01:31:55,034
with 133 trial attorneys,16

2373
01:31:57,017 --> 01:31:57,267
appellate attorneys, se master

2374
01:31:59,051 --> 01:31:59,301
social workers and 18 mentors

2375
01:32:01,051 --> 01:32:01,301
that are comprised of parent and

2376
01:32:03,051 --> 01:32:03,301
youth as you can see that is not

2377
01:32:04,517 --> 01:32:04,767
enough social workers and

2378
01:32:06,817 --> 01:32:07,067
mentors to cover the6000

2379
01:32:08,517 --> 01:32:08,767
children that are in custodydy

2380
01:32:10,284 --> 01:32:10,534
that if you multiplied that by

2381
01:32:11,017 --> 01:32:11,267
two if they each had a parent

2382
01:32:13,084 --> 01:32:13,334
that's not even enough to make a

2383
01:32:15,251 --> 01:32:15,501
dent so we need more of those

2384
01:32:17,151 --> 01:32:17,401
and OFR has eliminated the

2385
01:32:18,351 --> 01:32:18,601
attorney desserts and the

2386
01:32:18,917 --> 01:32:19,167
counties where

2387
01:32:21,317 --> 01:32:21,567
we are implemented in region two

2388
01:32:24,284 --> 01:32:24,534
which is southwest Oklahoma they

2389
01:32:28,251 --> 01:32:28,501
had about 9 counties in2024 when

2390
01:32:30,251 --> 01:32:30,501
we implemented that did not have

2391
01:32:32,251 --> 01:32:32,501
lawyers that would come and

2392
01:32:32,851 --> 01:32:33,101
represent parents or children

2393
01:32:36,284 --> 01:32:36,534
it's much easier for a judge to

2394
01:32:37,017 --> 01:32:37,267
call and ask a lawyer to

2395
01:32:38,784 --> 01:32:39,034
represent a child but that

2396
01:32:40,751 --> 01:32:41,001
representation was not overseen

2397
01:32:42,517 --> 01:32:42,767
and we were unsure what was

2398
01:32:44,551 --> 01:32:44,801
happening. there was a lot of

2399
01:32:46,517 --> 01:32:46,767
children who were being

2400
01:32:48,251 --> 01:32:48,501
represented by the wrong

2401
01:32:49,251 --> 01:32:49,501
standard of care the wrong

2402
01:32:50,751 --> 01:32:51,001
standard and model of

2403
01:32:52,751 --> 01:32:53,001
representation in Oklahoma

2404
01:32:54,751 --> 01:32:55,001
children enjoy the right to

2405
01:32:56,251 --> 01:32:56,501
expressed interest

2406
01:32:58,984 --> 01:32:59,234
representation and our rules of

2407
01:33:00,784 --> 01:33:01,034
professional conduct dictate

2408
01:33:02,351 --> 01:33:02,601
that children as young as ive

2409
01:33:03,017 --> 01:33:03,267
can dictate their represent

2410
01:33:04,984 --> 01:33:05,234
ation in their child custody

2411
01:33:07,217 --> 01:33:07,467
matters if a child cannot

2412
01:33:09,017 --> 01:33:09,267
express their interest of what

2413
01:33:10,751 --> 01:33:11,001
they want their lawyer to do for

2414
01:33:13,017 --> 01:33:13,267
them in their custody proceeding

2415
01:33:14,851 --> 01:33:15,101
then the lawyer must use

2416
01:33:15,417 --> 01:33:15,667
substituted judgment.

2417
01:33:20,284 --> 01:33:20,534
and substituted judgment

2418
01:33:22,251 --> 01:33:22,501
there's criteria in the statute

2419
01:33:23,251 --> 01:33:23,501
for what that is it's not me

2420
01:33:25,017 --> 01:33:25,267
living in midtown Oklahoma

2421
01:33:28,551 --> 01:33:28,801
deciding what a child in North

2422
01:33:29,184 --> 01:33:29,434
Tulsa would want

2423
01:33:32,517 --> 01:33:32,767
so it is considerations for

2424
01:33:34,484 --> 01:33:34,734
the children Oklahoma attorneys

2425
01:33:36,517 --> 01:33:36,767
do not represent children's best

2426
01:33:38,251 --> 01:33:38,501
interests that's what Cosa does

2427
01:33:38,984 --> 01:33:39,234
and that's what guardian ad

2428
01:33:39,517 --> 01:33:39,767
litems for children do.

2429
01:33:43,017 --> 01:33:43,267
interdisciplinary teams and how

2430
01:33:44,517 --> 01:33:44,767
do they work so an

2431
01:33:46,517 --> 01:33:46,767
interdisciplinary team as we

2432
01:33:47,184 --> 01:33:47,434
talked about comprised of an

2433
01:33:49,017 --> 01:33:49,267
attorney a master's level social

2434
01:33:51,051 --> 01:33:51,301
worker and a mentor they work

2435
01:33:53,017 --> 01:33:53,267
together to address the

2436
01:33:54,284 --> 01:33:54,534
conditions that brought the

2437
01:33:54,917 --> 01:33:55,167
children into custody. they're

2438
01:33:56,551 --> 01:33:56,801
not there to minimize the

2439
01:33:58,517 --> 01:33:58,767
conditions they're there to

2440
01:34:00,284 --> 01:34:00,534
understand what they are

2441
01:34:02,284 --> 01:34:02,534
protective capacities into place

2442
01:34:03,051 --> 01:34:03,301
get the assessments done that

2443
01:34:04,784 --> 01:34:05,034
need to be done get the

2444
01:34:05,284 --> 01:34:05,534
referrals done that need to be

2445
01:34:08,517 --> 01:34:08,767
done and help the parent

2446
01:34:10,351 --> 01:34:10,601
understand why their children

2447
01:34:10,984 --> 01:34:11,234
came into custody and why the

2448
01:34:11,651 --> 01:34:11,901
judge

2449
01:34:12,617 --> 01:34:12,867
made this ruling about their

2450
01:34:14,517 --> 01:34:14,767
conditions and help them

2451
01:34:15,017 --> 01:34:15,267
understand the healing that

2452
01:34:16,517 --> 01:34:16,767
needs to happen in their family

2453
01:34:18,251 --> 01:34:18,501
so they can reunify.

2454
01:34:20,251 --> 01:34:20,501
Interdisciplinary teams are

2455
01:34:22,517 --> 01:34:22,767
assigned by OFR at the request

2456
01:34:24,551 --> 01:34:24,801
of an attorney our teams work

2457
01:34:26,284 --> 01:34:26,534
with the clients by identifying

2458
01:34:27,017 --> 01:34:27,267
the client's strengths and needs

2459
01:34:28,484 --> 01:34:28,734
we try to build these parents

2460
01:34:30,517 --> 01:34:30,767
and these children up so that

2461
01:34:31,151 --> 01:34:31,401
they can begin the healing

2462
01:34:32,784 --> 01:34:33,034
process and accept the fact that

2463
01:34:34,484 --> 01:34:34,734
they have to do these services

2464
01:34:35,284 --> 01:34:35,534
in order to reunify with their

2465
01:34:36,817 --> 01:34:37,067
family and they have to learn

2466
01:34:39,084 --> 01:34:39,334
what the services are trying to

2467
01:34:40,351 --> 01:34:40,601
teach them. The team use

2468
01:34:42,684 --> 01:34:42,934
s out of court advocacy to

2469
01:34:44,584 --> 01:34:44,834
gather information, increase

2470
01:34:46,284 --> 01:34:46,534
communication and advocate for

2471
01:34:47,051 --> 01:34:47,301
the client in and out of court

2472
01:34:49,084 --> 01:34:49,334
and the mentors are key to the

2473
01:34:52,251 --> 01:34:52,501
engagement of clients I call the

2474
01:34:54,551 --> 01:34:54,801
mentor's first responders they

2475
01:34:56,284 --> 01:34:56,534
are running back into the

2476
01:34:56,884 --> 01:34:57,134
burning building that they

2477
01:34:58,551 --> 01:34:58,801
escaped to help someone else

2478
01:35:00,817 --> 01:35:01,067
escape and heal from the

2479
01:35:02,284 --> 01:35:02,534
information gathered the

2480
01:35:04,284 --> 01:35:04,534
attorney is equipped to provide

2481
01:35:05,351 --> 01:35:05,601
more information to the court so

2482
01:35:06,584 --> 01:35:06,834
the court can make better

2483
01:35:07,151 --> 01:35:07,401
informed decisions

2484
01:35:14,384 --> 01:35:14,634
these are the counties if

2485
01:35:16,617 --> 01:35:16,867
they're colored where OFR is

2486
01:35:18,617 --> 01:35:18,867
currently implemented by

2487
01:35:20,784 --> 01:35:21,034
November 1st the rest of

2488
01:35:24,251 --> 01:35:24,501
northwest Oklahoma will be

2489
01:35:24,884 --> 01:35:25,134
implemented you will see that's

2490
01:35:28,217 --> 01:35:28,467
judicial district 1,4 and two

2491
01:35:28,884 --> 01:35:29,134
and we will complete judicial

2492
01:35:32,817 --> 01:35:33,067
district22 down in southeast

2493
01:35:35,017 --> 01:35:35,267
Oklahoma leaving only 9 counties

2494
01:35:36,617 --> 01:35:36,867
in southeast Oklahoma and

2495
01:35:38,417 --> 01:35:38,667
Oklahoma County to be

2496
01:35:40,484 --> 01:35:40,734
implemented in the next year

2497
01:35:41,151 --> 01:35:41,401
pending

2498
01:35:42,651 --> 01:35:42,901
appropriations from the

2499
01:35:43,184 --> 01:35:43,434
legislature

2500
01:35:48,851 --> 01:35:49,101
so the impact of OFR

2501
01:35:54,251 --> 01:35:54,501
a judge had stated to us, I can

2502
01:35:55,151 --> 01:35:55,401
tell the cases in my court

2503
01:35:56,684 --> 01:35:56,934
resolved quicker when the parent

2504
01:35:58,884 --> 01:35:59,134
has an OFR interdisciplinary

2505
01:36:02,217 --> 01:36:02,467
team a judge in southeast

2506
01:36:03,084 --> 01:36:03,334
Oklahoma requested that

2507
01:36:06,617 --> 01:36:06,867
OFR be implemented in his

2508
01:36:08,417 --> 01:36:08,667
counties because he thinks I

2509
01:36:10,417 --> 01:36:10,667
would just really benefit from

2510
01:36:12,617 --> 01:36:12,867
OFR a youth mentor that was

2511
01:36:14,217 --> 01:36:14,467
interviewed stated she was so

2512
01:36:16,417 --> 01:36:16,667
thankful that OFR existed and

2513
01:36:17,017 --> 01:36:17,267
the possibilities OFR would give

2514
01:36:18,684 --> 01:36:18,934
youth that were still in the

2515
01:36:20,851 --> 01:36:21,101
system or would be aging out.

2516
01:36:24,417 --> 01:36:24,667
she stated it gives me hope that

2517
01:36:26,451 --> 01:36:26,701
what all I went through in

2518
01:36:28,417 --> 01:36:28,667
foster care can be used to help

2519
01:36:30,451 --> 01:36:30,701
others. A mother who's deprived

2520
01:36:32,451 --> 01:36:32,701
case had been ongoing for over

2521
01:36:34,251 --> 01:36:34,501
two years stated to her parent

2522
01:36:34,917 --> 01:36:35,167
mentor

2523
01:36:36,451 --> 01:36:36,701
that she did not believe her

2524
01:36:38,717 --> 01:36:38,967
attorney when he told her she

2525
01:36:40,217 --> 01:36:40,467
would be getting help from an

2526
01:36:42,217 --> 01:36:42,467
interdisciplinary team she

2527
01:36:42,817 --> 01:36:43,067
thought it was just more words

2528
01:36:44,617 --> 01:36:44,867
coming out of her attorney's

2529
01:36:46,617 --> 01:36:46,867
mouth. Months later the mother

2530
01:36:48,451 --> 01:36:48,701
told her parent mentor that she

2531
01:36:49,117 --> 01:36:49,367
would not be in trial

2532
01:36:50,451 --> 01:36:50,701
reunification without the

2533
01:36:52,651 --> 01:36:52,901
mentor's help the mother said I

2534
01:36:54,817 --> 01:36:55,067
didn't know or understand what

2535
01:36:58,417 --> 01:36:58,667
DHS or the court wanted from me

2536
01:36:59,151 --> 01:36:59,401
and I felt hopeless

2537
01:37:02,617 --> 01:37:02,867
now I get it and we are going to

2538
01:37:04,817 --> 01:37:05,067
be all right a mother stated to

2539
01:37:06,617 --> 01:37:06,867
her indisciplinary

2540
01:37:08,217 --> 01:37:08,467
interdisciplinary team social

2541
01:37:10,217 --> 01:37:10,467
worker my attorney really fought

2542
01:37:12,217 --> 01:37:12,467
for me this is the first time

2543
01:37:12,817 --> 01:37:13,067
someone fought for me like that

2544
01:37:16,417 --> 01:37:16,667
wodHS district directors from

2545
01:37:18,217 --> 01:37:18,467
two different regions recently

2546
01:37:20,617 --> 01:37:20,867
stated to us cases resolve

2547
01:37:22,851 --> 01:37:23,101
faster with OFR and more

2548
01:37:23,351 --> 01:37:23,601
reunifications occur.

2549
01:37:28,851 --> 01:37:29,101
Senator Hicks asked me to talk

2550
01:37:30,617 --> 01:37:30,867
about due process so I added

2551
01:37:32,851 --> 01:37:33,101
this slide and it is with great

2552
01:37:36,217 --> 01:37:36,467
pride that I get to say that OFR

2553
01:37:38,217 --> 01:37:38,467
got this result for an

2554
01:37:40,451 --> 01:37:40,701
incarcerated mother. This

2555
01:37:42,417 --> 01:37:42,667
opinion just came out late early

2556
01:37:44,417 --> 01:37:44,667
last week I think it was Tuesday

2557
01:37:46,451 --> 01:37:46,701
afternoon and is the full

2558
01:37:46,984 --> 01:37:47,234
opinion is on the front page of

2559
01:37:47,651 --> 01:37:47,901
OSCN.

2560
01:37:50,817 --> 01:37:51,067
The Oklahoma Supreme court found

2561
01:37:51,484 --> 01:37:51,734
that this mother

2562
01:37:56,217 --> 01:37:56,467
did not receive due process or

2563
01:37:56,851 --> 01:37:57,101
effective representation of

2564
01:37:58,451 --> 01:37:58,701
counsel in her case

2565
01:38:02,984 --> 01:38:03,234
herr case was from2023 an OFR

2566
01:38:06,217 --> 01:38:06,467
became aware of her case in

2567
01:38:10,417 --> 01:38:10,667
august of2024 it went through a

2568
01:38:12,417 --> 01:38:12,667
process in the trial courts and

2569
01:38:14,417 --> 01:38:14,667
then the court ofiv appeals and

2570
01:38:16,217 --> 01:38:16,467
then a petition for certiary to

2571
01:38:18,417 --> 01:38:18,667
the Oklahoma Supreme Court

2572
01:38:18,984 --> 01:38:19,234
this past

2573
01:38:22,851 --> 01:38:23,101
June I think and we received

2574
01:38:24,451 --> 01:38:24,701
the opinion last Tuesday

2575
01:38:28,451 --> 01:38:28,701
The Supreme court found that the

2576
01:38:30,417 --> 01:38:30,667
trial court's duty to make and

2577
01:38:32,684 --> 01:38:32,934
keep a legal record was not

2578
01:38:33,251 --> 01:38:33,501
safeguarded

2579
01:38:38,451 --> 01:38:38,701
the supreme court found that the

2580
01:38:40,217 --> 01:38:40,467
court proceeded to termination

2581
01:38:40,884 --> 01:38:41,134
of pro rights without the

2582
01:38:42,617 --> 01:38:42,867
required safeguards and without

2583
01:38:44,851 --> 01:38:45,101
a record demonstrating the

2584
01:38:47,051 --> 01:38:47,301
safeguards the absence of the

2585
01:38:48,651 --> 01:38:48,901
record is not merely an

2586
01:38:50,851 --> 01:38:51,101
appellate inconvenience. It is a

2587
01:38:52,317 --> 01:38:52,567
part of the due process problem

2588
01:38:56,417 --> 01:38:56,667
in the any event the uncertainty

2589
01:38:58,417 --> 01:38:58,667
about which procedural path the

2590
01:39:00,684 --> 01:39:00,934
trial court took does not

2591
01:39:02,417 --> 01:39:02,667
control the outcome because due

2592
01:39:04,617 --> 01:39:04,867
process was denied under any

2593
01:39:06,651 --> 01:39:06,901
plausible characterization of

2594
01:39:08,451 --> 01:39:08,701
the april twenty9th proceeding

2595
01:39:10,451 --> 01:39:10,701
which was a petition to

2596
01:39:12,217 --> 01:39:12,467
vacate the termination of per

2597
01:39:14,451 --> 01:39:14,701
rights the court the Supreme

2598
01:39:16,217 --> 01:39:16,467
court overturned the petition to

2599
01:39:18,451 --> 01:39:18,701
vacate and this case has been

2600
01:39:20,684 --> 01:39:20,934
sent back to the trial court

2601
01:39:22,451 --> 01:39:22,701
for further proceedings I

2602
01:39:23,017 --> 01:39:23,267
highlight this case

2603
01:39:26,251 --> 01:39:26,501
as well to mention an adoption

2604
01:39:28,217 --> 01:39:28,467
had already taken place in this

2605
01:39:30,417 --> 01:39:30,667
case and has been in place for

2606
01:39:34,217 --> 01:39:34,467
two years so without effective

2607
01:39:34,884 --> 01:39:35,134
legal representation in the

2608
01:39:36,651 --> 01:39:36,901
trial court this is what can

2609
01:39:40,251 --> 01:39:40,501
happen on an appeal and what

2610
01:39:42,417 --> 01:39:42,667
can happen to an adoption where

2611
01:39:44,417 --> 01:39:44,667
that family thinks their world

2612
01:39:46,417 --> 01:39:46,667
is complete and done after two

2613
01:39:48,684 --> 01:39:48,934
years and it may not be we don't

2614
01:39:49,317 --> 01:39:49,567
know we don't know what's going

2615
01:39:49,984 --> 01:39:50,234
to happen

2616
01:39:54,251 --> 01:39:54,501
so that's why OFR is needed this

2617
01:39:54,984 --> 01:39:55,234
case really illustrates why OFR

2618
01:39:56,417 --> 01:39:56,667
is needed in all of our counties

2619
01:40:00,417 --> 01:40:00,667
and with that I'll take any

2620
01:40:00,984 --> 01:40:01,234
questions.

2621
01:40:04,651 --> 01:40:04,901
Senator Hicks recognized for a

2622
01:40:05,284 --> 01:40:05,534
question

2623
01:40:10,251 --> 01:40:10,501
thank you Mr Chair. so with

2624
01:40:12,451 --> 01:40:12,701
the the volume of trainings that

2625
01:40:14,617 --> 01:40:14,867
you demonstrated are those the

2626
01:40:18,217 --> 01:40:18,467
the trainings specifically

2627
01:40:20,217 --> 01:40:20,467
for the mentors and the

2628
01:40:22,817 --> 01:40:23,067
volunteers are those open to

2629
01:40:24,651 --> 01:40:24,901
anyone I know that you stated

2630
01:40:26,417 --> 01:40:26,667
that they were on your website

2631
01:40:28,417 --> 01:40:28,667
but just specifically when

2632
01:40:28,984 --> 01:40:29,234
we're thinking about ways in

2633
01:40:30,851 --> 01:40:31,101
which we can help create

2634
01:40:34,851 --> 01:40:35,101
more knowledgeable individuals

2635
01:40:36,451 --> 01:40:36,701
in very you know

2636
01:40:38,517 --> 01:40:38,767
very difficult and

2637
01:40:42,417 --> 01:40:42,667
high conflict cases are are

2638
01:40:44,484 --> 01:40:44,734
those trainings available for

2639
01:40:45,151 --> 01:40:45,401
anyone to be able to access

2640
01:40:48,217 --> 01:40:48,467
absolutely all of our trainings

2641
01:40:48,851 --> 01:40:49,101
are available for anyone to

2642
01:40:49,417 --> 01:40:49,667
access.

2643
01:40:50,451 --> 01:40:50,701
we've had

2644
01:40:54,417 --> 01:40:54,667
some40 of my closest colleagues

2645
01:40:56,417 --> 01:40:56,667
from the state of Georgia attend

2646
01:40:57,151 --> 01:40:57,401
a drug testing training that we

2647
01:40:57,784 --> 01:40:58,034
gave.

2648
01:41:02,417 --> 01:41:02,667
en ator Hicks for a follow up

2649
01:41:04,217 --> 01:41:04,467
thank you Mr Chair you

2650
01:41:06,217 --> 01:41:06,467
highlighted a master's level

2651
01:41:08,217 --> 01:41:08,467
social worker. can you help me

2652
01:41:08,917 --> 01:41:09,167
understand why that distinction

2653
01:41:09,551 --> 01:41:09,801
is so important

2654
01:41:12,217 --> 01:41:12,467
master's level social workers

2655
01:41:14,417 --> 01:41:14,667
receive training they have

2656
01:41:18,417 --> 01:41:18,667
expertise they have education

2657
01:41:20,851 --> 01:41:21,101
in how to deal with systems and

2658
01:41:22,217 --> 01:41:22,467
how to deal with case

2659
01:41:22,751 --> 01:41:23,001
management. they also have

2660
01:41:24,617 --> 01:41:24,867
clinical training but we don't

2661
01:41:26,651 --> 01:41:26,901
use that part of their education

2662
01:41:28,651 --> 01:41:28,901
they really do case management

2663
01:41:30,451 --> 01:41:30,701
for us they do assessments for

2664
01:41:32,417 --> 01:41:32,667
us they also guide and oversee

2665
01:41:34,217 --> 01:41:34,467
our mentors and do reflective

2666
01:41:36,451 --> 01:41:36,701
supervision with them and so

2667
01:41:38,217 --> 01:41:38,467
they're training and expertise

2668
01:41:38,817 --> 01:41:39,067
is of a caliber that

2669
01:41:40,917 --> 01:41:41,167
is needed to navigate the child

2670
01:41:42,617 --> 01:41:42,867
welfare system as well as the

2671
01:41:44,451 --> 01:41:44,701
juvenile deprived court system

2672
01:41:45,151 --> 01:41:45,401
because these families are now

2673
01:41:48,217 --> 01:41:48,467
getting two systems when

2674
01:41:48,751 --> 01:41:49,001
they're in the juvenile deprived

2675
01:41:49,417 --> 01:41:49,667
court

2676
01:41:52,684 --> 01:41:52,934
further questions

2677
01:41:58,417 --> 01:41:58,667
a few from the chair. so

2678
01:42:00,217 --> 01:42:00,467
august we'll start with the

2679
01:42:00,817 --> 01:42:01,067
matter of xw that was just down

2680
01:42:02,617 --> 01:42:02,867
the prior slide

2681
01:42:06,817 --> 01:42:07,067
was the office of

2682
01:42:08,817 --> 01:42:09,067
familymilypresentation involved

2683
01:42:12,217 --> 01:42:12,467
in any of the appel appeals for

2684
01:42:14,951 --> 01:42:15,201
that case or was it the

2685
01:42:15,517 --> 01:42:15,767
claimants or

2686
01:42:18,617 --> 01:42:18,867
I don't know appellate's own

2687
01:42:20,817 --> 01:42:21,067
attorney or otherwise held

2688
01:42:24,584 --> 01:42:24,834
council so OFR has a pellet

2689
01:42:26,217 --> 01:42:26,467
panel of appellate attorneys

2690
01:42:26,784 --> 01:42:27,034
that work for us that are

2691
01:42:28,617 --> 01:42:28,867
contracted with us and one of

2692
01:42:30,717 --> 01:42:30,967
our panel appellate attorneys

2693
01:42:31,384 --> 01:42:31,634
did the work for this appeal

2694
01:42:36,784 --> 01:42:37,034
how are their requests for

2695
01:42:38,384 --> 01:42:38,634
representations? how are they

2696
01:42:40,384 --> 01:42:40,634
reached to your level? are they

2697
01:42:41,051 --> 01:42:41,301
assigned by the judge is are

2698
01:42:44,651 --> 01:42:44,901
people able to directly reach

2699
01:42:45,284 --> 01:42:45,534
out to OFR for representation?

2700
01:42:51,017 --> 01:42:51,267
yes and no it's kind of your

2701
01:42:54,617 --> 01:42:54,867
answer so what happens is is we

2702
01:42:56,617 --> 01:42:56,867
contract with the trial lawyers

2703
01:42:58,451 --> 01:42:58,701
and then we provide each judge

2704
01:43:00,217 --> 01:43:00,467
with a benchc card and the

2705
01:43:00,851 --> 01:43:01,101
benchc card tells the judged

2706
01:43:03,051 --> 01:43:03,301
these are your OFR attorneys for

2707
01:43:04,651 --> 01:43:04,901
your juvenile deprived cases in

2708
01:43:06,684 --> 01:43:06,934
your county and they may use

2709
01:43:08,417 --> 01:43:08,667
those to appoint for parent and

2710
01:43:10,217 --> 01:43:10,467
child representation like

2711
01:43:10,851 --> 01:43:11,101
judgedge conyers mentioned

2712
01:43:12,851 --> 01:43:13,101
earlier today our lawyers in the

2713
01:43:14,651 --> 01:43:14,901
rural counties you have to

2714
01:43:16,251 --> 01:43:16,501
exempt Tulssonokklahoma County

2715
01:43:16,884 --> 01:43:17,134
because they have the public

2716
01:43:17,551 --> 01:43:17,801
defender who

2717
01:43:18,851 --> 01:43:19,101
represents children but all

2718
01:43:20,817 --> 01:43:21,067
other75 counties our lawyers

2719
01:43:22,417 --> 01:43:22,667
will represent both parents and

2720
01:43:24,484 --> 01:43:24,734
children on a rotating basis so

2721
01:43:25,084 --> 01:43:25,334
they get that experience and

2722
01:43:28,217 --> 01:43:28,467
knowledge from both sides and so

2723
01:43:28,851 --> 01:43:29,101
the judged uses their benchc

2724
01:43:30,617 --> 01:43:30,867
card for when a case comes in to

2725
01:43:32,451 --> 01:43:32,701
appoint lawyers to the parents

2726
01:43:33,151 --> 01:43:33,401
and to the children in the case

2727
01:43:36,851 --> 01:43:37,101
so the judge makes that own

2728
01:43:38,851 --> 01:43:39,101
determination themselves without

2729
01:43:40,284 --> 01:43:40,534
any kind of request from

2730
01:43:42,651 --> 01:43:42,901
a parent or anybody else

2731
01:43:43,217 --> 01:43:43,467
involved.

2732
01:43:46,384 --> 01:43:46,634
judgedge conyers is shaking her

2733
01:43:47,051 --> 01:43:47,301
head now no it doesn't work that

2734
01:43:48,584 --> 01:43:48,834
way but I can explain how it

2735
01:43:50,417 --> 01:43:50,667
works and if she thinks I did it

2736
01:43:52,217 --> 01:43:52,467
wrong she can jump in

2737
01:43:54,617 --> 01:43:54,867
so what happens is when a case

2738
01:43:56,417 --> 01:43:56,667
comes to before the judge in the

2739
01:43:58,417 --> 01:43:58,667
emergency custody hearing our

2740
01:43:59,084 --> 01:43:59,334
statutes say at that point in

2741
01:44:00,817 --> 01:44:01,067
time the judge may appoint a

2742
01:44:04,417 --> 01:44:04,667
lawyer for a parent a parent can

2743
01:44:05,051 --> 01:44:05,301
request at that time there's

2744
01:44:06,784 --> 01:44:07,034
only a few counties that appoint

2745
01:44:10,217 --> 01:44:10,467
parents attorneys prior to that

2746
01:44:10,917 --> 01:44:11,167
particular hearing it would be

2747
01:44:12,717 --> 01:44:12,967
best practice for all parents to

2748
01:44:13,384 --> 01:44:13,634
have their court appointed

2749
01:44:13,917 --> 01:44:14,167
lawyer

2750
01:44:16,817 --> 01:44:17,067
before that hearing. children

2751
01:44:18,651 --> 01:44:18,901
are required to have a lawyer

2752
01:44:22,217 --> 01:44:22,467
appointed at that hearing at

2753
01:44:22,817 --> 01:44:23,067
the next hearing each county

2754
01:44:24,617 --> 01:44:24,867
kind of does this different

2755
01:44:26,217 --> 01:44:26,467
about the next hearing some

2756
01:44:28,217 --> 01:44:28,467
counties insert a made up

2757
01:44:30,251 --> 01:44:30,501
hearing and they call it like

2758
01:44:32,217 --> 01:44:32,467
aer hearing or something like

2759
01:44:32,884 --> 01:44:33,134
that or initial appearance

2760
01:44:34,851 --> 01:44:35,101
hearing and at that time parents

2761
01:44:36,451 --> 01:44:36,701
can fill out the pauper's

2762
01:44:38,251 --> 01:44:38,501
affidavit which is different in

2763
01:44:40,651 --> 01:44:40,901
all77 counties it's not uniform

2764
01:44:42,651 --> 01:44:42,901
and they can then be a

2765
01:44:43,217 --> 01:44:43,467
parents can then be appointed

2766
01:44:46,417 --> 01:44:46,667
attorney at that hearing every

2767
01:44:48,217 --> 01:44:48,467
parent should be appointed an

2768
01:44:48,917 --> 01:44:49,167
attorney by the next hearing

2769
01:44:50,617 --> 01:44:50,867
which is the adjudication

2770
01:44:52,817 --> 01:44:53,067
hearing and children should

2771
01:44:54,584 --> 01:44:54,834
most definitely have already had

2772
01:44:56,851 --> 01:44:57,101
their attorney appointed by

2773
01:44:57,417 --> 01:44:57,667
that point in time.

2774
01:45:04,384 --> 01:45:04,634
my emotion process that

2775
01:45:10,317 --> 01:45:10,567
yeah you'd have to come up to

2776
01:45:12,284 --> 01:45:12,534
the microphone can identify

2777
01:45:12,851 --> 01:45:13,101
yourself for the new statement

2778
01:45:18,284 --> 01:45:18,534
atpecialjudge Kim conyers from

2779
01:45:18,917 --> 01:45:19,167
Cleveland County so in my

2780
01:45:20,751 --> 01:45:21,001
courtroom it it does progress

2781
01:45:22,551 --> 01:45:22,801
much like that when parents come

2782
01:45:24,517 --> 01:45:24,767
for the temporary emergency

2783
01:45:27,051 --> 01:45:27,301
custody hearing which is after

2784
01:45:28,784 --> 01:45:29,034
the initial custody order has

2785
01:45:32,284 --> 01:45:32,534
been done that has to happen

2786
01:45:34,517 --> 01:45:34,767
within two judicial days so a

2787
01:45:36,517 --> 01:45:36,767
lot of times they do not have

2788
01:45:38,251 --> 01:45:38,501
representation at that hearing.

2789
01:45:38,984 --> 01:45:39,234
That is a very brief hearing

2790
01:45:41,117 --> 01:45:41,367
before me just to determine if

2791
01:45:44,284 --> 01:45:44,534
there's reasonable suspicion to

2792
01:45:44,951 --> 01:45:45,201
continue to hold the child in D

2793
01:45:47,017 --> 01:45:47,267
H S custody so it's a very brief

2794
01:45:50,284 --> 01:45:50,534
hearing. I always allow them

2795
01:45:52,517 --> 01:45:52,767
time to make any statements that

2796
01:45:54,251 --> 01:45:54,501
they want to make or let me know

2797
01:45:56,251 --> 01:45:56,501
any information that they feel

2798
01:45:57,051 --> 01:45:57,301
like is important for me to know

2799
01:45:58,751 --> 01:45:59,001
but most of the time the

2800
01:46:00,284 --> 01:46:00,534
information I get at that

2801
01:46:00,817 --> 01:46:01,067
hearing comes from the DHS

2802
01:46:01,351 --> 01:46:01,601
worker

2803
01:46:04,517 --> 01:46:04,767
Once a petition has been

2804
01:46:06,784 --> 01:46:07,034
actually filed. my office goes

2805
01:46:08,517 --> 01:46:08,767
to our lists and automatically

2806
01:46:10,351 --> 01:46:10,601
appoints an attorney for the

2807
01:46:10,917 --> 01:46:11,167
child or children

2808
01:46:14,284 --> 01:46:14,534
at the very first we tell them

2809
01:46:15,084 --> 01:46:15,334
at tell parents at the show

2810
01:46:16,784 --> 01:46:17,034
cause hearing you need to have

2811
01:46:18,784 --> 01:46:19,034
an attorney by your next hearing

2812
01:46:20,784 --> 01:46:21,034
you have the option to hire an

2813
01:46:22,784 --> 01:46:23,034
attorney if you cannot afford to

2814
01:46:24,551 --> 01:46:24,801
hire an attorney then you can

2815
01:46:25,284 --> 01:46:25,534
fill out a court appointed

2816
01:46:26,884 --> 01:46:27,134
attorney application and I will

2817
01:46:27,551 --> 01:46:27,801
consider that

2818
01:46:30,784 --> 01:46:31,034
and appoint an attorney to

2819
01:46:32,517 --> 01:46:32,767
represent you if appropriate.

2820
01:46:34,784 --> 01:46:35,034
Now in practice I would love it

2821
01:46:36,251 --> 01:46:36,501
if they would sit right down and

2822
01:46:37,017 --> 01:46:37,267
just fill out that application

2823
01:46:38,751 --> 01:46:39,001
so I could have that attorney in

2824
01:46:39,384 --> 01:46:39,634
place for them by the time they

2825
01:46:40,051 --> 01:46:40,301
come back

2826
01:46:44,251 --> 01:46:44,501
in reality despite the fact that

2827
01:46:47,051 --> 01:46:47,301
I say every single time do not

2828
01:46:49,017 --> 01:46:49,267
wait until the day before to

2829
01:46:52,284 --> 01:46:52,534
return this form to my office I

2830
01:46:53,017 --> 01:46:53,267
get them back in my office the

2831
01:46:54,484 --> 01:46:54,734
day before their next court

2832
01:46:55,051 --> 01:46:55,301
hearing

2833
01:46:58,517 --> 01:46:58,767
If that happens and they don't

2834
01:46:59,251 --> 01:46:59,501
have an attorney, I go ahead and

2835
01:47:00,784 --> 01:47:01,034
appoint an attorney at that

2836
01:47:04,284 --> 01:47:04,534
hearing and we reset the initial

2837
01:47:06,517 --> 01:47:06,767
adjudication or arraignment on

2838
01:47:10,251 --> 01:47:10,501
that petition. I I don't proceed

2839
01:47:11,317 --> 01:47:11,567
unless they insist on proceeding

2840
01:47:14,817 --> 01:47:15,067
prose, I don't proceed to the

2841
01:47:16,784 --> 01:47:17,034
adjudication stage without them

2842
01:47:17,484 --> 01:47:17,734
having that attorney in place.

2843
01:47:22,251 --> 01:47:22,501
and I just keep a a running list

2844
01:47:26,284 --> 01:47:26,534
of my OFR contractors and it's

2845
01:47:28,284 --> 01:47:28,534
kind of next man up as long as

2846
01:47:30,517 --> 01:47:30,767
they don't have a conflict

2847
01:47:32,517 --> 01:47:32,767
from handling a case previously

2848
01:47:34,351 --> 01:47:34,601
or being involved with the

2849
01:47:34,917 --> 01:47:35,167
family in some other way.

2850
01:47:40,551 --> 01:47:40,801
you of those attorneys then

2851
01:47:42,251 --> 01:47:42,501
what is the case load typically

2852
01:47:44,517 --> 01:47:44,767
within an OFR attorney somebody

2853
01:47:45,351 --> 01:47:45,601
that's contracted judged Coners

2854
01:47:46,017 --> 01:47:46,267
if you would turn off your mic

2855
01:47:51,017 --> 01:47:51,267
our caseload and compensation

2856
01:47:53,251 --> 01:47:53,501
schedule is on our website and

2857
01:47:56,284 --> 01:47:56,534
so there's really not a typical

2858
01:47:58,517 --> 01:47:58,767
average caseload. it depends on

2859
01:48:02,284 --> 01:48:02,534
the area of the state so intulsa

2860
01:48:04,284 --> 01:48:04,534
most of those lawyers are on a

2861
01:48:06,817 --> 01:48:07,067
caseload of60 to 80 cases we try

2862
01:48:08,784 --> 01:48:09,034
to keep them in the middle of

2863
01:48:10,551 --> 01:48:10,801
that caseload range and then

2864
01:48:13,051 --> 01:48:13,301
they it goes down from that

2865
01:48:15,084 --> 01:48:15,334
by statute are enabling statute

2866
01:48:16,751 --> 01:48:17,001
they can't have more than 80

2867
01:48:17,417 --> 01:48:17,667
cases national practice

2868
01:48:21,051 --> 01:48:21,301
is a full time attorney doing

2869
01:48:22,517 --> 01:48:22,767
this work shouldn't have more

2870
01:48:24,517 --> 01:48:24,767
than60 parents on their

2871
01:48:28,517 --> 01:48:28,767
caseload and so we go from 1

2872
01:48:32,551 --> 01:48:32,801
to twenty,20 to40,40 to60 and

2873
01:48:33,251 --> 01:48:33,501
then60 to 80.

2874
01:48:36,317 --> 01:48:36,567
are our caseloads and very few

2875
01:48:36,984 --> 01:48:37,234
might have

2876
01:48:38,751 --> 01:48:39,001
we might tweak that just a

2877
01:48:39,317 --> 01:48:39,567
little bit

2878
01:48:43,017 --> 01:48:43,267
are all the attorneys contract

2879
01:48:45,051 --> 01:48:45,301
attorneys within communities or

2880
01:48:46,551 --> 01:48:46,801
are there some actually within

2881
01:48:47,251 --> 01:48:47,501
the statewide office that go out

2882
01:48:47,917 --> 01:48:48,167
to trials

2883
01:48:51,051 --> 01:48:51,301
by the enabling statute no one

2884
01:48:53,284 --> 01:48:53,534
in my office is allowed to have

2885
01:48:55,051 --> 01:48:55,301
client contact except for the

2886
01:48:57,051 --> 01:48:57,301
managing attorney of appellate

2887
01:49:00,251 --> 01:49:00,501
practice and he may be he is

2888
01:49:02,517 --> 01:49:02,767
able to decide if he wants to

2889
01:49:04,517 --> 01:49:04,767
keep an appeal that's come to

2890
01:49:06,284 --> 01:49:06,534
him to be assigned and if he

2891
01:49:08,284 --> 01:49:08,534
wants to do it himself so all

2892
01:49:09,051 --> 01:49:09,301
the trial attorneys and the

2893
01:49:10,817 --> 01:49:11,067
other appellate attorneys are on

2894
01:49:11,484 --> 01:49:11,734
contract.

2895
01:49:15,051 --> 01:49:15,301
you said compensation is posted

2896
01:49:18,251 --> 01:49:18,501
on the website iss it a per case

2897
01:49:18,984 --> 01:49:19,234
per hour how is that

2898
01:49:20,551 --> 01:49:20,801
compensation determined it's a

2899
01:49:24,251 --> 01:49:24,501
flat fee so the contractors that

2900
01:49:25,184 --> 01:49:25,434
have the60 to 80 caseload our

2901
01:49:26,784 --> 01:49:27,034
highest caseload range get a

2902
01:49:27,451 --> 01:49:27,701
flat fee of $8000 a month.

2903
01:49:32,784 --> 01:49:33,034
and they are required to do high

2904
01:49:34,784 --> 01:49:35,034
quality legal representation to

2905
01:49:37,051 --> 01:49:37,301
keep their contract which is

2906
01:49:38,351 --> 01:49:38,601
not like what they were doing

2907
01:49:39,017 --> 01:49:39,267
prior to OFR.

2908
01:49:42,451 --> 01:49:42,701
When

2909
01:49:46,251 --> 01:49:46,501
contract attorney is involved

2910
01:49:48,517 --> 01:49:48,767
what is the typical resolution

2911
01:49:49,217 --> 01:49:49,467
you said in one of these that it

2912
01:49:54,484 --> 01:49:54,734
comes in one of the slides said

2913
01:49:56,751 --> 01:49:57,001
faster reunification is that the

2914
01:49:58,984 --> 01:49:59,234
typical outcome are there other

2915
01:50:00,484 --> 01:50:00,734
recommendations that come

2916
01:50:02,784 --> 01:50:03,034
through and then obviously how

2917
01:50:04,984 --> 01:50:05,234
does this square with your you

2918
01:50:07,017 --> 01:50:07,267
know don't represent the best

2919
01:50:08,284 --> 01:50:08,534
interest of the child that's

2920
01:50:10,817 --> 01:50:11,067
forcasa so well it's by statute

2921
01:50:12,551 --> 01:50:12,801
the legislature put that in

2922
01:50:14,517 --> 01:50:14,767
statute how children are

2923
01:50:16,517 --> 01:50:16,767
represented and it's entitled

2924
01:50:20,551 --> 01:50:20,801
today 1-4-306 and so how these

2925
01:50:21,217 --> 01:50:21,467
out

2926
01:50:24,484 --> 01:50:24,734
com es are determined by clients

2927
01:50:26,751 --> 01:50:27,001
clients direct lawyers with

2928
01:50:28,484 --> 01:50:28,734
what they want to be their

2929
01:50:30,284 --> 01:50:30,534
family preservation and to see

2930
01:50:32,251 --> 01:50:32,501
their out to see what happens in

2931
01:50:32,984 --> 01:50:33,234
one of these cases so if you're

2932
01:50:34,951 --> 01:50:35,201
a parent lawyer you sit down you

2933
01:50:36,751 --> 01:50:37,001
talk to your client you inform

2934
01:50:38,284 --> 01:50:38,534
them and counsel them about the

2935
01:50:39,017 --> 01:50:39,267
law and you find out what they

2936
01:50:42,284 --> 01:50:42,534
want for their family and in

2937
01:50:43,017 --> 01:50:43,267
this case and then the lawyer

2938
01:50:44,751 --> 01:50:45,001
goes to work to accomplish that.

2939
01:50:47,051 --> 01:50:47,301
Lawyers are also tasked under

2940
01:50:48,751 --> 01:50:49,001
the law to be counselors at law

2941
01:50:50,617 --> 01:50:50,867
and so when your client comes to

2942
01:50:51,284 --> 01:50:51,534
you with an outrageous request

2943
01:50:54,251 --> 01:50:54,501
of course you might counsel them

2944
01:50:55,017 --> 01:50:55,267
that we can't do that but then

2945
01:50:56,517 --> 01:50:56,767
in the end if that's what they

2946
01:50:58,284 --> 01:50:58,534
ask, did you go before Judge

2947
01:51:00,284 --> 01:51:00,534
conyers and you look and you

2948
01:51:01,017 --> 01:51:01,267
make that statement of what your

2949
01:51:02,717 --> 01:51:02,967
client has asked you to do

2950
01:51:04,517 --> 01:51:04,767
there's lots of people in the

2951
01:51:06,484 --> 01:51:06,734
courtroom to safeguard the best

2952
01:51:07,217 --> 01:51:07,467
interests of children and the

2953
01:51:10,284 --> 01:51:10,534
main person is the judge as well

2954
01:51:11,051 --> 01:51:11,301
asassa and as well as the

2955
01:51:13,017 --> 01:51:13,267
district attorney if a child

2956
01:51:15,051 --> 01:51:15,301
wants to go home a 12 year old

2957
01:51:16,517 --> 01:51:16,767
wants to go home and their

2958
01:51:18,517 --> 01:51:18,767
mother father hasn't healed or

2959
01:51:19,251 --> 01:51:19,501
corrected the conditions from

2960
01:51:20,651 --> 01:51:20,901
which the judge has ordered them

2961
01:51:21,317 --> 01:51:21,567
to correct it is

2962
01:51:23,051 --> 01:51:23,301
in the child tells their

2963
01:51:23,584 --> 01:51:23,834
attorney I want to go home

2964
01:51:26,584 --> 01:51:26,834
the attorney of the child has to

2965
01:51:27,217 --> 01:51:27,467
go in there and tell judgedge

2966
01:51:29,051 --> 01:51:29,301
conyers I want to go home and

2967
01:51:30,817 --> 01:51:31,067
then there's all the other folks

2968
01:51:32,284 --> 01:51:32,534
that are in that room to

2969
01:51:33,017 --> 01:51:33,267
safeguard and represent the best

2970
01:51:34,551 --> 01:51:34,801
interests of the child to

2971
01:51:35,084 --> 01:51:35,334
judgedge conyers and then she

2972
01:51:37,051 --> 01:51:37,301
makes the final decision of what

2973
01:51:38,317 --> 01:51:38,567
is in the best interests of that

2974
01:51:38,984 --> 01:51:39,234
child.

2975
01:51:46,251 --> 01:51:46,501
one of the other things that I

2976
01:51:47,051 --> 01:51:47,301
had pulled out was your

2977
01:51:48,784 --> 01:51:49,034
presentation was money from the

2978
01:51:50,517 --> 01:51:50,767
legislature for full expansion

2979
01:51:52,717 --> 01:51:52,967
what what will be your budget

2980
01:51:53,384 --> 01:51:53,634
request

2981
01:51:56,317 --> 01:51:56,567
going forward for full

2982
01:51:57,084 --> 01:51:57,334
implementation and what do you

2983
01:51:57,751 --> 01:51:58,001
see this program going

2984
01:52:00,384 --> 01:52:00,634
with current budget and then

2985
01:52:04,251 --> 01:52:04,501
you know again what your request

2986
01:52:06,251 --> 01:52:06,501
will be I think in previous

2987
01:52:07,217 --> 01:52:07,467
presentations to the legislature

2988
01:52:10,517 --> 01:52:10,767
that are not mine as I am not

2989
01:52:12,484 --> 01:52:12,734
allowed to lobby the legislature

2990
01:52:14,784 --> 01:52:15,034
but previous documentation is

2991
01:52:16,284 --> 01:52:16,534
shown to the legislature that

2992
01:52:17,051 --> 01:52:17,301
the full budget for the Oklahoma

2993
01:52:18,751 --> 01:52:19,001
office the family representation

2994
01:52:20,351 --> 01:52:20,601
in all77 counties is about20

2995
01:52:21,017 --> 01:52:21,267
million dollars.

2996
01:52:25,284 --> 01:52:25,534
what has been or what is part of

2997
01:52:28,517 --> 01:52:28,767
the current budget for OFR and

2998
01:52:30,517 --> 01:52:30,767
your contract. the legislature

2999
01:52:32,484 --> 01:52:32,734
has appropriated for the last

3000
01:52:33,184 --> 01:52:33,434
few years $10.5 million.

3001
01:52:39,017 --> 01:52:39,267
thank you any further questions

3002
01:52:39,684 --> 01:52:39,934
committee members present

3003
01:52:44,284 --> 01:52:44,534
all right thank you appreciate

3004
01:52:45,017 --> 01:52:45,267
you being here today. Senator

3005
01:52:46,484 --> 01:52:46,734
Hicks you're recognized for

3006
01:52:47,051 --> 01:52:47,301
introduction of the your next

3007
01:52:47,717 --> 01:52:47,967
speaker.

3008
01:52:52,517 --> 01:52:52,767
thank you Mr chairir at this

3009
01:52:54,517 --> 01:52:54,767
time we have our final

3010
01:52:56,751 --> 01:52:57,001
presenter this isill Walsh and

3011
01:52:58,451 --> 01:52:58,701
she is the grandmother

3012
01:52:58,917 --> 01:52:59,167
ofelizabeth Feaster.

3013
01:53:27,251 --> 01:53:27,501
Thank you for allowing me the

3014
01:53:27,917 --> 01:53:28,167
privilege

3015
01:53:30,584 --> 01:53:30,834
to tell you about our girl

3016
01:53:31,184 --> 01:53:31,434
Lizzie rose

3017
01:53:34,884 --> 01:53:35,134
and today I wear pink for Lizzie

3018
01:53:37,151 --> 01:53:37,401
and we wear pink for Lizzie

3019
01:53:46,484 --> 01:53:46,734
Elizabeth rose feaster entered

3020
01:53:48,317 --> 01:53:48,567
this world august22,2018.

3021
01:53:52,784 --> 01:53:53,034
from day one she captured the

3022
01:53:53,451 --> 01:53:53,701
hearts of everyone she met

3023
01:53:58,284 --> 01:53:58,534
She was love. she was laughter

3024
01:53:58,951 --> 01:53:59,201
and she was full of light.

3025
01:54:02,484 --> 01:54:02,734
she gave the best hugs and was

3026
01:54:03,184 --> 01:54:03,434
the snuggliest of all snugglers.

3027
01:54:10,351 --> 01:54:10,601
She loved ice cream, popsicles

3028
01:54:10,984 --> 01:54:11,234
and blue ring pops.

3029
01:54:14,317 --> 01:54:14,567
flue was her favorite flavor

3030
01:54:20,984 --> 01:54:21,234
She's show appreciation for pop

3031
01:54:24,517 --> 01:54:24,767
pop's dinners with a loud m m

3032
01:54:25,184 --> 01:54:25,434
and a big thumbs up

3033
01:54:30,784 --> 01:54:31,034
she loved her life or lived her

3034
01:54:32,751 --> 01:54:33,001
life with such unapologetic

3035
01:54:33,317 --> 01:54:33,567
gusto

3036
01:54:35,017 --> 01:54:35,267
that I want to be her when I

3037
01:54:35,584 --> 01:54:35,834
grow up

3038
01:54:40,784 --> 01:54:41,034
herr older brother Aidean was

3039
01:54:41,451 --> 01:54:41,701
always by her side

3040
01:54:44,551 --> 01:54:44,801
something was a little scary or

3041
01:54:45,217 --> 01:54:45,467
she hadn't warmed up yet.

3042
01:54:47,417 --> 01:54:47,667
she would stand by her big

3043
01:54:47,951 --> 01:54:48,201
brother

3044
01:54:51,351 --> 01:54:51,601
and without a word without a

3045
01:54:51,984 --> 01:54:52,234
thought

3046
01:54:55,217 --> 01:54:55,467
their hands would clasp together

3047
01:54:56,351 --> 01:54:56,601
that's trust that's love.

3048
01:54:59,251 --> 01:54:59,501
Lizzie had her hero

3049
01:55:00,817 --> 01:55:01,067
She called her mom

3050
01:55:06,284 --> 01:55:06,534
She was so proud to have her

3051
01:55:07,051 --> 01:55:07,301
mamma help people by taking 911

3052
01:55:07,717 --> 01:55:07,967
calls

3053
01:55:12,284 --> 01:55:12,534
and she wanted to take 911 calls

3054
01:55:12,951 --> 01:55:13,201
like her mama when she got big.

3055
01:55:16,784 --> 01:55:17,034
Lizzie and I had our own special

3056
01:55:18,784 --> 01:55:19,034
things. We left shopping at ive

3057
01:55:19,484 --> 01:55:19,734
below on the weekends

3058
01:55:22,851 --> 01:55:23,101
We made up songs for everything

3059
01:55:26,784 --> 01:55:27,034
ed lock red lights potty

3060
01:55:28,351 --> 01:55:28,601
training just loving each other

3061
01:55:29,017 --> 01:55:29,267
everything

3062
01:55:32,817 --> 01:55:33,067
we love to go swimming and she

3063
01:55:34,351 --> 01:55:34,601
would stay from open to close if

3064
01:55:35,017 --> 01:55:35,267
I let her

3065
01:55:36,317 --> 01:55:36,567
We had so much fun

3066
01:55:40,351 --> 01:55:40,601
shared so many laughs

3067
01:55:50,551 --> 01:55:50,801
Lizzie loved to be loud. She

3068
01:55:51,184 --> 01:55:51,434
would sing in the shower at the

3069
01:55:52,784 --> 01:55:53,034
top of her lungs and in the car

3070
01:55:54,351 --> 01:55:54,601
and in the room and anywhere she

3071
01:55:55,017 --> 01:55:55,267
was at

3072
01:55:58,351 --> 01:55:58,601
when she was mad she would also

3073
01:55:59,017 --> 01:55:59,267
make sure you were aware

3074
01:56:00,817 --> 01:56:01,067
and she would tromp through the

3075
01:56:02,351 --> 01:56:02,601
house sounding like a herd of

3076
01:56:03,017 --> 01:56:03,267
elephants.

3077
01:56:05,151 --> 01:56:05,401
Lizzie loved swimming roller

3078
01:56:05,817 --> 01:56:06,067
skating and swimming

3079
01:56:06,751 --> 01:56:07,001
really loved swimming

3080
01:56:12,251 --> 01:56:12,501
she loved her 50 plus stuffies

3081
01:56:13,051 --> 01:56:13,301
and each one had their own

3082
01:56:13,584 --> 01:56:13,834
special name.

3083
01:56:18,817 --> 01:56:19,067
over that summer we went on her

3084
01:56:20,784 --> 01:56:21,034
first water slide together and I

3085
01:56:22,784 --> 01:56:23,034
will never forget the look on

3086
01:56:23,417 --> 01:56:23,667
her face.

3087
01:56:28,584 --> 01:56:28,834
Lizzie was a bright, creative

3088
01:56:29,284 --> 01:56:29,534
and clever child.

3089
01:56:32,817 --> 01:56:33,067
she surrounded herself with her

3090
01:56:36,284 --> 01:56:36,534
stuffies balloons and boxes that

3091
01:56:36,951 --> 01:56:37,201
she would turn into something

3092
01:56:37,617 --> 01:56:37,867
magical.

3093
01:56:40,517 --> 01:56:40,767
she was always creating art

3094
01:56:44,284 --> 01:56:44,534
playing makebelieve and singing

3095
01:56:46,851 --> 01:56:47,101
her favorite songs she saw joy

3096
01:56:47,517 --> 01:56:47,767
impossibility

3097
01:56:50,384 --> 01:56:50,634
and everything around her

3098
01:56:56,484 --> 01:56:56,734
e li z ab e th rotheaster left

3099
01:56:57,117 --> 01:56:57,367
this world on June twentyninth.

3100
01:56:58,851 --> 01:56:59,101
2025

3101
01:57:02,851 --> 01:57:03,101
She was 6 years,10 months.

3102
01:57:04,484 --> 01:57:04,734
and7 days

3103
01:57:10,284 --> 01:57:10,534
She'd been so excited to be

3104
01:57:10,917 --> 01:57:11,167
going into the2nd grade.

3105
01:57:14,751 --> 01:57:15,001
so excited to pull that wiggly

3106
01:57:16,317 --> 01:57:16,567
tooth that just wasn't quite

3107
01:57:16,884 --> 01:57:17,134
ready

3108
01:57:20,517 --> 01:57:20,767
and so excited to eat taffy and

3109
01:57:21,251 --> 01:57:21,501
chew gum once her silver tooth

3110
01:57:21,884 --> 01:57:22,134
fell out.

3111
01:57:28,284 --> 01:57:28,534
Lizzie was shot in the back by

3112
01:57:30,551 --> 01:57:30,801
her biological father in her

3113
01:57:31,117 --> 01:57:31,367
grandma's backyard.

3114
01:57:33,284 --> 01:57:33,534
he then turned the gun on

3115
01:57:33,817 --> 01:57:34,067
himself

3116
01:57:36,751 --> 01:57:37,001
herr autopsy revealed

3117
01:57:39,051 --> 01:57:39,301
she had been sexually abused by

3118
01:57:39,717 --> 01:57:39,967
him

3119
01:57:44,751 --> 01:57:45,001
lizzie didn't want to go that

3120
01:57:47,017 --> 01:57:47,267
weekend, I asked why she said

3121
01:57:47,684 --> 01:57:47,934
because her dad was there

3122
01:57:51,117 --> 01:57:51,367
I asked all the questions

3123
01:57:54,317 --> 01:57:54,567
maybe I didn't ask the right

3124
01:57:54,884 --> 01:57:55,134
one. I don't know.

3125
01:58:00,384 --> 01:58:00,634
I told her just to hang out with

3126
01:58:01,051 --> 01:58:01,301
grandma.

3127
01:58:02,584 --> 01:58:02,834
I didn't piece it together

3128
01:58:05,017 --> 01:58:05,267
till after the fact

3129
01:58:10,584 --> 01:58:10,834
now her father didn't allow her

3130
01:58:11,217 --> 01:58:11,467
to go in her grandma's bedroom.

3131
01:58:13,117 --> 01:58:13,367
and that's where grandma was

3132
01:58:18,784 --> 01:58:19,034
Lizzie had no safe haven from

3133
01:58:19,451 --> 01:58:19,701
her abuser

3134
01:58:20,984 --> 01:58:21,234
and again

3135
01:58:26,517 --> 01:58:26,767
this occurred under court

3136
01:58:27,051 --> 01:58:27,301
ordered supervised

3137
01:58:30,317 --> 01:58:30,567
overnight visitation

3138
01:58:36,817 --> 01:58:37,067
The Oklahoma County DA's office

3139
01:58:38,484 --> 01:58:38,734
is not pressing any charges

3140
01:58:40,251 --> 01:58:40,501
because grandma didn't know she

3141
01:58:40,984 --> 01:58:41,234
had to keep eyes on Lizzie and

3142
01:58:41,651 --> 01:58:41,901
Aidan.

3143
01:58:44,984 --> 01:58:45,234
the city of bethany Police

3144
01:58:47,284 --> 01:58:47,534
Department, Oklahoma DHS were

3145
01:58:48,517 --> 01:58:48,767
contacted in October2024

3146
01:58:52,251 --> 01:58:52,501
when Lindsay and aided witnessed

3147
01:58:54,517 --> 01:58:54,767
a physical domestic dispute

3148
01:58:55,117 --> 01:58:55,367
between their father and their

3149
01:58:55,784 --> 01:58:56,034
grandfather.

3150
01:58:58,451 --> 01:58:58,701
bethany Pd took a report

3151
01:59:02,351 --> 01:59:02,601
but didn't know what to do with

3152
01:59:03,017 --> 01:59:03,267
it since the kids were not hurt.

3153
01:59:07,384 --> 01:59:07,634
DHS did a surprise popin visit.

3154
01:59:09,017 --> 01:59:09,267
at my daughter's home

3155
01:59:12,951 --> 01:59:13,201
and made an appointment with the

3156
01:59:13,651 --> 01:59:13,901
father.

3157
01:59:17,017 --> 01:59:17,267
these two brave kiddos wanted to

3158
01:59:18,784 --> 01:59:19,034
tell the police they were

3159
01:59:20,484 --> 01:59:20,734
worried about grandma and

3160
01:59:22,484 --> 01:59:22,734
grandfather and they were scared

3161
01:59:23,117 --> 01:59:23,367
for their own safety

3162
01:59:24,917 --> 01:59:25,167
my daughter

3163
01:59:26,751 --> 01:59:27,001
was treated

3164
01:59:30,484 --> 01:59:30,734
like a bitter baby mama

3165
01:59:34,851 --> 01:59:35,101
I talked to the grandfather

3166
01:59:38,351 --> 01:59:38,601
and begged them to get help

3167
01:59:41,051 --> 01:59:41,301
that we were scared for their

3168
01:59:41,717 --> 01:59:41,967
safety

3169
01:59:45,317 --> 01:59:45,567
he told me he could handle him

3170
01:59:51,017 --> 01:59:51,267
the kids kids did not go back

3171
01:59:54,484 --> 01:59:54,734
over for visitation until DHS

3172
01:59:56,317 --> 01:59:56,567
talked with them and gave the it

3173
01:59:56,984 --> 01:59:57,234
was safe.

3174
01:59:58,751 --> 01:59:59,001
that was in December2024.

3175
02:00:04,751 --> 02:00:05,001
when custody proceedings began

3176
02:00:06,751 --> 02:00:07,001
in December2018, my daughter

3177
02:00:08,351 --> 02:00:08,601
sought and was granted avPO.

3178
02:00:10,851 --> 02:00:11,101
for herself and her children

3179
02:00:12,851 --> 02:00:13,101
they moved into my home

3180
02:00:18,751 --> 02:00:19,001
wo days later I receive a phone

3181
02:00:20,517 --> 02:00:20,767
call from my oldest son saying

3182
02:00:22,517 --> 02:00:22,767
please were at her house. my

3183
02:00:23,084 --> 02:00:23,334
daughter had to leave and they

3184
02:00:23,751 --> 02:00:24,001
were going to take the kids

3185
02:00:27,317 --> 02:00:27,567
I got home as fast as I could.

3186
02:00:34,784 --> 02:00:35,034
a false retaliatoryvPO was filed

3187
02:00:35,451 --> 02:00:35,701
by the father.

3188
02:00:39,017 --> 02:00:39,267
my daughter had to leave my home

3189
02:00:43,051 --> 02:00:43,301
and I was granted guardianship

3190
02:00:44,317 --> 02:00:44,567
over the kids through DhS.

3191
02:00:46,917 --> 02:00:47,167
court was a joke

3192
02:00:52,751 --> 02:00:53,001
the judge was unjustly mean and

3193
02:00:53,417 --> 02:00:53,667
hard on my daughter

3194
02:00:56,484 --> 02:00:56,734
called her a liar because of

3195
02:00:57,217 --> 02:00:57,467
what he wrote when he filed hisv

3196
02:00:57,884 --> 02:00:58,134
pm

3197
02:01:02,284 --> 02:01:02,534
made a point to embarrass her

3198
02:01:04,284 --> 02:01:04,534
for wearing her work clothes

3199
02:01:05,317 --> 02:01:05,567
which were black slacks in a

3200
02:01:05,984 --> 02:01:06,234
polo top.

3201
02:01:09,317 --> 02:01:09,567
because she came directly from

3202
02:01:09,984 --> 02:01:10,234
work

3203
02:01:13,017 --> 02:01:13,267
and was going straight back

3204
02:01:13,551 --> 02:01:13,801
after

3205
02:01:13,801 --> 02:01:14,051
court

3206
02:01:20,517 --> 02:01:20,767
Their father fought with the

3207
02:01:21,051 --> 02:01:21,301
daycare

3208
02:01:24,284 --> 02:01:24,534
because they wouldn't let him

3209
02:01:25,017 --> 02:01:25,267
take them out of the building

3210
02:01:26,517 --> 02:01:26,767
alone and supervised

3211
02:01:31,017 --> 02:01:31,267
he called the family counselor

3212
02:01:32,517 --> 02:01:32,767
horrible names and threatened

3213
02:01:33,151 --> 02:01:33,401
her

3214
02:01:34,984 --> 02:01:35,234
all of which the judge knew and

3215
02:01:37,017 --> 02:01:37,267
did not address other than a

3216
02:01:37,684 --> 02:01:37,934
question to the grandmother.

3217
02:01:40,884 --> 02:01:41,134
you didn't raise him to do that

3218
02:01:41,517 --> 02:01:41,767
right?

3219
02:01:43,084 --> 02:01:43,334
of course she went right

3220
02:01:48,284 --> 02:01:48,534
he did not attend the mandatory

3221
02:01:50,284 --> 02:01:50,534
domestic violence classes. he

3222
02:01:51,051 --> 02:01:51,301
did not have the court ordered

3223
02:01:52,984 --> 02:01:53,234
psyche evaluation completed. he

3224
02:01:54,784 --> 02:01:55,034
did not intend individual

3225
02:01:57,017 --> 02:01:57,267
counseling and he continued to

3226
02:01:59,251 --> 02:01:59,501
harass my daughter, drive by her

3227
02:02:00,784 --> 02:02:01,034
house until she started working

3228
02:02:04,251 --> 02:02:04,501
at 911 and please heavily

3229
02:02:06,251 --> 02:02:06,501
patrolled her neighborhood and

3230
02:02:08,351 --> 02:02:08,601
walked her to and from her car

3231
02:02:09,017 --> 02:02:09,267
daily

3232
02:02:14,317 --> 02:02:14,567
and he continued just to do

3233
02:02:14,884 --> 02:02:15,134
whatever he wanted

3234
02:02:20,584 --> 02:02:20,834
We trusted the court system

3235
02:02:22,717 --> 02:02:22,967
we trusted DHS

3236
02:02:28,651 --> 02:02:28,901
without their

3237
02:02:33,017 --> 02:02:33,267
father's participation in any of

3238
02:02:36,251 --> 02:02:36,501
the required tasks he was still

3239
02:02:38,351 --> 02:02:38,601
granted overnight visitation

3240
02:02:42,817 --> 02:02:43,067
that should never have been an

3241
02:02:43,484 --> 02:02:43,734
option

3242
02:02:48,251 --> 02:02:48,501
without clear standards

3243
02:02:48,984 --> 02:02:49,234
supervision provided may be

3244
02:02:49,584 --> 02:02:49,834
inconsistent

3245
02:02:52,317 --> 02:02:52,567
passive or ineffective

3246
02:02:54,784 --> 02:02:55,034
leaving children vulnerable

3247
02:02:58,717 --> 02:02:58,967
Lindsay was left vulnerable

3248
02:03:02,851 --> 02:03:03,101
and paid the price

3249
02:03:04,584 --> 02:03:04,834
with her innocence

3250
02:03:06,384 --> 02:03:06,634
in her life

3251
02:03:13,017 --> 02:03:13,267
please help me

3252
02:03:16,717 --> 02:03:16,967
please help Senator Hicks

3253
02:03:20,751 --> 02:03:21,001
add another layer of safety for

3254
02:03:21,417 --> 02:03:21,667
these children

3255
02:03:24,817 --> 02:03:25,067
there's a strong correlation

3256
02:03:25,384 --> 02:03:25,634
between the state of Oklahoma

3257
02:03:28,817 --> 02:03:29,067
being number50 in education

3258
02:03:32,584 --> 02:03:32,834
and number one in domestic

3259
02:03:33,151 --> 02:03:33,401
violence

3260
02:03:36,351 --> 02:03:36,601
Children can't learn ABCs

3261
02:03:37,251 --> 02:03:37,501
if their little minds

3262
02:03:40,317 --> 02:03:40,567
are learning to survive

3263
02:03:48,584 --> 02:03:48,834
senator Higgs

3264
02:03:52,517 --> 02:03:52,767
thank you Mr Chair and thank you

3265
02:03:55,051 --> 02:03:55,301
so much for being here. would

3266
02:03:56,784 --> 02:03:57,034
you like to stand for questions

3267
02:03:57,417 --> 02:03:57,667
or absolutely

3268
02:03:59,017 --> 02:03:59,267
OK I'll open it up to my

3269
02:03:59,584 --> 02:03:59,834
colleagues

3270
02:04:02,551 --> 02:04:02,801
are there questions

3271
02:04:08,617 --> 02:04:08,867
ma'am appreciate you being here

3272
02:04:09,284 --> 02:04:09,534
today and

3273
02:04:12,551 --> 02:04:12,801
giving testimony and sharing the

3274
02:04:13,251 --> 02:04:13,501
story of Lizzie on this

3275
02:04:16,917 --> 02:04:17,167
I can understand your

3276
02:04:18,784 --> 02:04:19,034
frustrations court system

3277
02:04:19,384 --> 02:04:19,634
especially given personal

3278
02:04:22,784 --> 02:04:23,034
experience that you had with

3279
02:04:23,417 --> 02:04:23,667
it

3280
02:04:26,817 --> 02:04:27,067
my question again we're

3281
02:04:28,817 --> 02:04:29,067
trying to figure out what can be

3282
02:04:32,517 --> 02:04:32,767
best going forward you know

3283
02:04:34,284 --> 02:04:34,534
when could intervention and what

3284
02:04:34,917 --> 02:04:35,167
could intervention have looked

3285
02:04:35,584 --> 02:04:35,834
like

3286
02:04:38,984 --> 02:04:39,234
earlier to have prevented this

3287
02:04:40,984 --> 02:04:41,234
again judges have dockets that

3288
02:04:42,584 --> 02:04:42,834
they have to look at they have

3289
02:04:43,251 --> 02:04:43,501
to take testimony

3290
02:04:46,484 --> 02:04:46,734
and they have to weigh that

3291
02:04:47,217 --> 02:04:47,467
on their own so at what point

3292
02:04:50,817 --> 02:04:51,067
could intervention have come in

3293
02:04:52,517 --> 02:04:52,767
that potentially could have

3294
02:04:53,117 --> 02:04:53,367
saved Lizzie's life in your

3295
02:04:54,851 --> 02:04:55,101
view. theres several things the

3296
02:04:55,551 --> 02:04:55,801
first thing

3297
02:04:56,884 --> 02:04:57,134
is

3298
02:05:00,817 --> 02:05:01,067
in the beginning I was a

3299
02:05:03,051 --> 02:05:03,301
supervisor for my daughter's

3300
02:05:04,984 --> 02:05:05,234
visitation once thatvPO went out

3301
02:05:08,517 --> 02:05:08,767
so I was her supervisor and his

3302
02:05:09,217 --> 02:05:09,467
mother was his supervisor

3303
02:05:12,517 --> 02:05:12,767
I knew the rules

3304
02:05:16,351 --> 02:05:16,601
she said she didn't

3305
02:05:20,517 --> 02:05:20,767
we did not have a class. we did

3306
02:05:22,517 --> 02:05:22,767
not have a sheet of paper for a

3307
02:05:23,217 --> 02:05:23,467
checklist we had nothing

3308
02:05:27,284 --> 02:05:27,534
but I knew that I had to keep my

3309
02:05:30,284 --> 02:05:30,534
eyes on these kids around my

3310
02:05:32,251 --> 02:05:32,501
daughter even though I trusted

3311
02:05:33,084 --> 02:05:33,334
her 100%. I treated her like a

3312
02:05:33,751 --> 02:05:34,001
criminal.

3313
02:05:37,417 --> 02:05:37,667
that's what was required of me.

3314
02:05:43,051 --> 02:05:43,301
that was not being he was not

3315
02:05:44,784 --> 02:05:45,034
being held to that same standard

3316
02:05:47,184 --> 02:05:47,434
Again we did not have

3317
02:05:50,384 --> 02:05:50,634
a guideline to go through.

3318
02:05:54,784 --> 02:05:55,034
I also think domestic violence

3319
02:05:56,517 --> 02:05:56,767
and classes should be given

3320
02:06:02,251 --> 02:06:02,501
to the supervisors as well

3321
02:06:03,217 --> 02:06:03,467
because of domestic violence is

3322
02:06:03,884 --> 02:06:04,134
going on

3323
02:06:06,517 --> 02:06:06,767
if you're in the middle of it,

3324
02:06:07,184 --> 02:06:07,434
sometimes you can't see it

3325
02:06:12,251 --> 02:06:12,501
but once you start talking to

3326
02:06:13,084 --> 02:06:13,334
people and you're talking in

3327
02:06:15,051 --> 02:06:15,301
group that comes out and you're

3328
02:06:17,284 --> 02:06:17,534
like oh my that's that happens

3329
02:06:18,351 --> 02:06:18,601
to me that's not normal

3330
02:06:26,251 --> 02:06:26,501
so I think education for these

3331
02:06:26,884 --> 02:06:27,134
supervisors

3332
02:06:28,817 --> 02:06:29,067
they need to know what they're

3333
02:06:29,484 --> 02:06:29,734
getting into

3334
02:06:32,251 --> 02:06:32,501
they need to know their

3335
02:06:32,817 --> 02:06:33,067
responsibilities

3336
02:06:36,617 --> 02:06:36,867
and they need to know when they

3337
02:06:37,284 --> 02:06:37,534
need to stop it

3338
02:06:40,517 --> 02:06:40,767
when they need to remove that

3339
02:06:42,251 --> 02:06:42,501
child when they need to back

3340
02:06:43,217 --> 02:06:43,467
away and go hey I don't think I

3341
02:06:44,351 --> 02:06:44,601
can do this safely anymore

3342
02:06:47,451 --> 02:06:47,701
that never happens

3343
02:06:52,317 --> 02:06:52,567
we made several

3344
02:06:56,751 --> 02:06:57,001
attempts talking to DhS and then

3345
02:06:57,451 --> 02:06:57,701
talking through the attorneys

3346
02:07:02,517 --> 02:07:02,767
in everything we said

3347
02:07:06,817 --> 02:07:07,067
well we found out that he took

3348
02:07:08,517 --> 02:07:08,767
them to a store just a

3349
02:07:10,484 --> 02:07:10,734
convenience store but again that

3350
02:07:11,184 --> 02:07:11,434
was not supposed to happen

3351
02:07:13,084 --> 02:07:13,334
turned it into DHS

3352
02:07:16,484 --> 02:07:16,734
nothingthing was done or said

3353
02:07:21,251 --> 02:07:21,501
so why why even why even bother

3354
02:07:22,817 --> 02:07:23,067
with the system if we're not

3355
02:07:23,417 --> 02:07:23,667
going to make them follow the

3356
02:07:24,084 --> 02:07:24,334
rules

3357
02:07:27,084 --> 02:07:27,334
and I know we had a lot of

3358
02:07:28,351 --> 02:07:28,601
guidelines in place

3359
02:07:31,184 --> 02:07:31,434
it needs to be more than

3360
02:07:31,751 --> 02:07:32,001
guidelines

3361
02:07:36,951 --> 02:07:37,201
when domestic violence is

3362
02:07:40,284 --> 02:07:40,534
involved at any level because if

3363
02:07:42,251 --> 02:07:42,501
they're doing it to the parent,

3364
02:07:44,251 --> 02:07:44,501
they're doing it to the children

3365
02:07:44,951 --> 02:07:45,201
even if it's just

3366
02:07:46,617 --> 02:07:46,867
secondhand.hink of it like

3367
02:07:47,151 --> 02:07:47,401
smoking

3368
02:07:50,284 --> 02:07:50,534
someone may be smoking it's

3369
02:07:50,884 --> 02:07:51,134
still going to affect this

3370
02:07:51,417 --> 02:07:51,667
little one over here

3371
02:08:04,267 --> 02:08:04,517
looking at that I pulled up OSCN

3372
02:08:04,917 --> 02:08:05,167
you know

3373
02:08:06,284 --> 02:08:06,534
allegations on the father

3374
02:08:07,084 --> 02:08:07,334
charges on the father there were

3375
02:08:09,151 --> 02:08:09,401
no criminal allegations or

3376
02:08:09,684 --> 02:08:09,934
criminal charges against him

3377
02:08:12,784 --> 02:08:13,034
at any time there was a couple

3378
02:08:14,784 --> 02:08:15,034
of traffic tickets there also

3379
02:08:16,551 --> 02:08:16,801
was a protective order looks

3380
02:08:17,284 --> 02:08:17,534
like possibly filed by your

3381
02:08:18,351 --> 02:08:18,601
daughter you know how

3382
02:08:24,351 --> 02:08:24,601
how can we create a system that

3383
02:08:28,284 --> 02:08:28,534
you know doesn't assume

3384
02:08:31,051 --> 02:08:31,301
everybody is involved in Dv orsa

3385
02:08:32,751 --> 02:08:33,001
and that's easy to do as well.

3386
02:08:33,451 --> 02:08:33,701
There were steps in place

3387
02:08:36,784 --> 02:08:37,034
that could have figured this

3388
02:08:38,784 --> 02:08:39,034
out. he could have done the

3389
02:08:39,351 --> 02:08:39,601
psyche evaluation

3390
02:08:42,517 --> 02:08:42,767
that would show you right there

3391
02:08:43,151 --> 02:08:43,401
it showed my daughter was a

3392
02:08:43,717 --> 02:08:43,967
victim

3393
02:08:44,551 --> 02:08:44,801
and

3394
02:08:47,017 --> 02:08:47,267
she had been a victim of

3395
02:08:50,517 --> 02:08:50,767
domestic violence and and it was

3396
02:08:51,217 --> 02:08:51,467
not just a one day test

3397
02:08:54,784 --> 02:08:55,034
she had to go back 3 and4 times

3398
02:08:55,417 --> 02:08:55,667
it was $1000 test

3399
02:08:58,751 --> 02:08:59,001
we went and took a loan to make

3400
02:08:59,417 --> 02:08:59,667
sure that she could do that

3401
02:09:04,784 --> 02:09:05,034
and one of his concerns was

3402
02:09:05,317 --> 02:09:05,567
money. well

3403
02:09:09,051 --> 02:09:09,301
there's a lot of things that

3404
02:09:09,717 --> 02:09:09,967
would do for my kids

3405
02:09:14,351 --> 02:09:14,601
if I had to sell plasma there's

3406
02:09:15,017 --> 02:09:15,267
ways

3407
02:09:16,551 --> 02:09:16,801
there's ways to get money

3408
02:09:19,117 --> 02:09:19,367
there's organizations that are

3409
02:09:19,784 --> 02:09:20,034
willing to help

3410
02:09:20,751 --> 02:09:21,001
and I'm

3411
02:09:25,051 --> 02:09:25,301
I've got so many things that I

3412
02:09:26,884 --> 02:09:27,134
want to do inlizzie's name

3413
02:09:30,617 --> 02:09:30,867
to help as well. I just got to

3414
02:09:31,284 --> 02:09:31,534
figure it out

3415
02:09:35,051 --> 02:09:35,301
so one of those things that we

3416
02:09:37,017 --> 02:09:37,267
would put into law would be a

3417
02:09:38,784 --> 02:09:39,034
strict compliance or zero

3418
02:09:40,351 --> 02:09:40,601
tolerance do you think that

3419
02:09:40,917 --> 02:09:41,167
that's

3420
02:09:44,251 --> 02:09:44,501
the extent to where it would go

3421
02:09:47,117 --> 02:09:47,367
of any any noncompliance then

3422
02:09:47,751 --> 02:09:48,001
becomes a

3423
02:09:50,517 --> 02:09:50,767
you essentially loss of

3424
02:09:52,517 --> 02:09:52,767
visitation right it sounds like

3425
02:09:54,751 --> 02:09:55,001
what you would be advocating for

3426
02:09:56,517 --> 02:09:56,767
here is that how far you would

3427
02:09:58,784 --> 02:09:59,034
go or I mean how do we look into

3428
02:10:00,784 --> 02:10:01,034
again weighing for4 million

3429
02:10:02,517 --> 02:10:02,767
Oklahomans whenever legislation

3430
02:10:04,517 --> 02:10:04,767
comes through right now I am

3431
02:10:05,084 --> 02:10:05,334
very

3432
02:10:08,751 --> 02:10:09,001
I believe people can change. I

3433
02:10:10,551 --> 02:10:10,801
have to believe they can prove

3434
02:10:12,251 --> 02:10:12,501
that they have to prove that

3435
02:10:14,484 --> 02:10:14,734
change but I believe they can

3436
02:10:16,284 --> 02:10:16,534
change but what we're doing is

3437
02:10:17,051 --> 02:10:17,301
we are holding these children

3438
02:10:20,284 --> 02:10:20,534
like hostages they don't get a

3439
02:10:21,051 --> 02:10:21,301
choice they don't get a say they

3440
02:10:23,017 --> 02:10:23,267
get stuck with these parents who

3441
02:10:24,384 --> 02:10:24,634
scare the bejesus out of them

3442
02:10:30,284 --> 02:10:30,534
And I don't know if you've ever

3443
02:10:31,017 --> 02:10:31,267
been in a room with people that

3444
02:10:31,717 --> 02:10:31,967
you're terrified of but

3445
02:10:35,051 --> 02:10:35,301
are you going to stand up and go

3446
02:10:36,484 --> 02:10:36,734
he hurt me? absolutely not.

3447
02:10:40,517 --> 02:10:40,767
we have to be able to listen to

3448
02:10:41,217 --> 02:10:41,467
these kids and when they do talk

3449
02:10:44,784 --> 02:10:45,034
pay attention and not say well

3450
02:10:46,751 --> 02:10:47,001
your mom made you say that.

3451
02:10:48,351 --> 02:10:48,601
Well, you know what? even if she

3452
02:10:49,017 --> 02:10:49,267
did

3453
02:10:52,784 --> 02:10:53,034
that's when the the therapy and

3454
02:10:54,551 --> 02:10:54,801
the investigation and the

3455
02:10:55,117 --> 02:10:55,367
psychevals come in

3456
02:10:56,784 --> 02:10:57,034
there's ways

3457
02:11:00,984 --> 02:11:01,234
to weed that out and once it

3458
02:11:02,717 --> 02:11:02,967
starts getting weeded out less

3459
02:11:04,517 --> 02:11:04,767
people are going to try and go

3460
02:11:05,184 --> 02:11:05,434
that route because they're going

3461
02:11:07,017 --> 02:11:07,267
to get found out right now it's

3462
02:11:08,384 --> 02:11:08,634
just whatever goes

3463
02:11:11,051 --> 02:11:11,301
now we could have been real

3464
02:11:14,251 --> 02:11:14,501
nasty and real ugly we chose not

3465
02:11:16,351 --> 02:11:16,601
to we're civil people. my

3466
02:11:16,917 --> 02:11:17,167
daughter

3467
02:11:20,251 --> 02:11:20,501
I was I was on the road to just

3468
02:11:21,017 --> 02:11:21,267
don't send them just don't send

3469
02:11:22,517 --> 02:11:22,767
them don't send them and she's

3470
02:11:23,184 --> 02:11:23,434
like but mom

3471
02:11:24,484 --> 02:11:24,734
that's their dad

3472
02:11:26,784 --> 02:11:27,034
and they love him

3473
02:11:30,784 --> 02:11:31,034
so whenever you say to me just

3474
02:11:34,617 --> 02:11:34,867
I would not stop visitation

3475
02:11:35,151 --> 02:11:35,401
without cause.

3476
02:11:38,784 --> 02:11:39,034
and you always I think there

3477
02:11:40,517 --> 02:11:40,767
should always be a chance to

3478
02:11:41,084 --> 02:11:41,334
earn it back

3479
02:11:44,517 --> 02:11:44,767
but you get to earn it back at

3480
02:11:45,184 --> 02:11:45,434
the kid's speed

3481
02:11:46,317 --> 02:11:46,567
when they're ready

3482
02:11:48,484 --> 02:11:48,734
you do that work

3483
02:11:52,784 --> 02:11:53,034
start with phone calls sart with

3484
02:11:54,284 --> 02:11:54,534
our visitation

3485
02:11:56,351 --> 02:11:56,601
you knows build up to it

3486
02:12:00,351 --> 02:12:00,601
because I can be real good for

3487
02:12:01,017 --> 02:12:01,267
30 minutes.

3488
02:12:02,784 --> 02:12:03,034
maybe not for five hours.

3489
02:12:07,051 --> 02:12:07,301
it's more than just we're just

3490
02:12:08,751 --> 02:12:09,001
getting little glimps in these

3491
02:12:10,517 --> 02:12:10,767
lives and the glimpses that we

3492
02:12:11,117 --> 02:12:11,367
see they're on their best

3493
02:12:12,317 --> 02:12:12,567
behavior when we're in front of

3494
02:12:12,984 --> 02:12:13,234
you

3495
02:12:19,017 --> 02:12:19,267
any further questions committee

3496
02:12:19,684 --> 02:12:19,934
members

3497
02:12:20,884 --> 02:12:21,134
senator you're recognized

3498
02:12:28,251 --> 02:12:28,501
thank you for being here did

3499
02:12:28,917 --> 02:12:29,167
Lizzie have legal representation

3500
02:12:32,484 --> 02:12:32,734
did have an ad item

3501
02:12:35,051 --> 02:12:35,301
lizzie was an infant at that

3502
02:12:35,717 --> 02:12:35,967
time

3503
02:12:39,051 --> 02:12:39,301
and whenever our court

3504
02:12:42,251 --> 02:12:42,501
proceedings started and by the

3505
02:12:43,251 --> 02:12:43,501
time she passed away our case

3506
02:12:46,317 --> 02:12:46,567
was already closed with the

3507
02:12:46,884 --> 02:12:47,134
visitation set

3508
02:12:48,517 --> 02:12:48,767
as

3509
02:12:52,751 --> 02:12:53,001
as supervised it was standard

3510
02:12:53,417 --> 02:12:53,667
supervision

3511
02:12:56,484 --> 02:12:56,734
but supervised by his mother

3512
02:13:02,801 --> 02:13:03,051
for as far as that how closely

3513
02:13:04,517 --> 02:13:04,767
you're involved in that

3514
02:13:04,984 --> 02:13:05,234
situation but as far as any kind

3515
02:13:08,517 --> 02:13:08,767
of caseload do you feel like she

3516
02:13:10,784 --> 02:13:11,034
got adequate representation you

3517
02:13:11,484 --> 02:13:11,734
nobody can foresee these kinds

3518
02:13:12,817 --> 02:13:13,067
of situations but whether

3519
02:13:15,051 --> 02:13:15,301
signals or maybe missed because

3520
02:13:16,684 --> 02:13:16,934
of a caseload situation in your

3521
02:13:17,317 --> 02:13:17,567
opinion?

3522
02:13:20,851 --> 02:13:21,101
no I think our attorneys were

3523
02:13:21,484 --> 02:13:21,734
doing the best that they could

3524
02:13:25,084 --> 02:13:25,334
and the attorney that we used is

3525
02:13:27,051 --> 02:13:27,301
now a a judge in the juvenile

3526
02:13:27,717 --> 02:13:27,967
courts

3527
02:13:33,251 --> 02:13:33,501
I I think she was doing her due

3528
02:13:34,984 --> 02:13:35,234
diligence but there were a lot

3529
02:13:38,284 --> 02:13:38,534
of the the rules that we weren't

3530
02:13:40,284 --> 02:13:40,534
aware of and and weren't made

3531
02:13:40,984 --> 02:13:41,234
aware of and I don't know if it

3532
02:13:43,017 --> 02:13:43,267
was an oversight or she just saw

3533
02:13:43,684 --> 02:13:43,934
how it was moving

3534
02:13:47,051 --> 02:13:47,301
and but one of the things that

3535
02:13:50,251 --> 02:13:50,501
we did put in place was whenever

3536
02:13:53,284 --> 02:13:53,534
the case did become closed in

3537
02:13:55,017 --> 02:13:55,267
order for him to get that

3538
02:13:58,517 --> 02:13:58,767
supervision removed he would

3539
02:14:01,051 --> 02:14:01,301
have to do all the check marks

3540
02:14:02,617 --> 02:14:02,867
he'd had to do the classes he

3541
02:14:03,251 --> 02:14:03,501
had to do the

3542
02:14:07,017 --> 02:14:07,267
the psych evaluation he had to

3543
02:14:08,784 --> 02:14:09,034
do the counseling and not once

3544
02:14:09,451 --> 02:14:09,701
did he ever make that effort to

3545
02:14:10,117 --> 02:14:10,367
do it

3546
02:14:14,284 --> 02:14:14,534
and that is a problem in itself.

3547
02:14:16,317 --> 02:14:16,567
if you're not willing to do the

3548
02:14:16,984 --> 02:14:17,234
work for your child

3549
02:14:18,751 --> 02:14:19,001
to be better for your child

3550
02:14:21,251 --> 02:14:21,501
and you see them struggling

3551
02:14:26,351 --> 02:14:26,601
Step away

3552
02:14:28,317 --> 02:14:28,567
you don't get that right

3553
02:14:32,817 --> 02:14:33,067
I'm really tired of being

3554
02:14:38,884 --> 02:14:39,134
so polite to the parents who

3555
02:14:40,384 --> 02:14:40,634
they're the ones who have called

3556
02:14:41,051 --> 02:14:41,301
to this mess

3557
02:14:43,384 --> 02:14:43,634
I'm not saying all parents are

3558
02:14:44,051 --> 02:14:44,301
bad

3559
02:14:48,251 --> 02:14:48,501
I'm not saying situations don't

3560
02:14:49,051 --> 02:14:49,301
come up. I'm from southeast

3561
02:14:51,017 --> 02:14:51,267
Oklahoma I know I mean very poor

3562
02:14:51,684 --> 02:14:51,934
little town

3563
02:14:56,317 --> 02:14:56,567
I know how how things work and I

3564
02:14:57,084 --> 02:14:57,334
know how people can overcome

3565
02:14:57,751 --> 02:14:58,001
these things

3566
02:15:04,751 --> 02:15:05,001
but it's got to be for the kids.

3567
02:15:06,517 --> 02:15:06,767
We have to airr on the caution

3568
02:15:08,851 --> 02:15:09,101
side of the kids

3569
02:15:13,184 --> 02:15:13,434
said my daughter was treated

3570
02:15:15,017 --> 02:15:15,267
like we were just bringing them

3571
02:15:16,751 --> 02:15:17,001
up there just so they can tattle

3572
02:15:18,751 --> 02:15:19,001
on their dad. no that wasn't it.

3573
02:15:20,317 --> 02:15:20,567
When she picked them up they

3574
02:15:20,884 --> 02:15:21,134
were hysterical

3575
02:15:24,884 --> 02:15:25,134
Grandpa went through a wall

3576
02:15:31,384 --> 02:15:31,634
when I talked to him about it

3577
02:15:32,017 --> 02:15:32,267
like nothing happened

3578
02:15:34,684 --> 02:15:34,934
but that's their own

3579
02:15:38,351 --> 02:15:38,601
domestic violence issue that

3580
02:15:38,917 --> 02:15:39,167
needs to be addressed.

3581
02:15:44,951 --> 02:15:45,201
we say again you know we we let

3582
02:15:45,617 --> 02:15:45,867
DHS know

3583
02:15:48,351 --> 02:15:48,601
we let the police officers know

3584
02:15:52,251 --> 02:15:52,501
and then my daughter went home

3585
02:15:52,984 --> 02:15:53,234
and cried doubleub locked the

3586
02:15:54,617 --> 02:15:54,867
door and her kids never played

3587
02:15:55,251 --> 02:15:55,501
out in the front yard.

3588
02:15:56,784 --> 02:15:57,034
they lived like prisoners

3589
02:16:00,917 --> 02:16:01,167
and when Lizzie passed

3590
02:16:02,951 --> 02:16:03,201
that was the worst day ever

3591
02:16:07,084 --> 02:16:07,334
but when her dad went

3592
02:16:12,817 --> 02:16:13,067
there was just relief because we

3593
02:16:13,484 --> 02:16:13,734
still have one more.

3594
02:16:15,251 --> 02:16:15,501
she has an older brother

3595
02:16:19,017 --> 02:16:19,267
who's lost his dad and his

3596
02:16:19,584 --> 02:16:19,834
sister

3597
02:16:26,784 --> 02:16:27,034
further questions

3598
02:16:30,417 --> 02:16:30,667
just a follow up on you know

3599
02:16:34,851 --> 02:16:35,101
was there

3600
02:16:38,851 --> 02:16:39,101
and so I know that the mom was

3601
02:16:40,884 --> 02:16:41,134
the advocate in that situation

3602
02:16:42,317 --> 02:16:42,567
of bringing forward

3603
02:16:46,851 --> 02:16:47,101
the abuse you know

3604
02:16:48,817 --> 02:16:49,067
allegations at that time

3605
02:16:50,417 --> 02:16:50,667
probably should have been

3606
02:16:52,617 --> 02:16:52,867
substantiated. did the children

3607
02:16:54,417 --> 02:16:54,667
have direct contact with a

3608
02:16:58,451 --> 02:16:58,701
court of appointed supervisor or

3609
02:17:00,617 --> 02:17:00,867
attorney or we had a guardian ad

3610
02:17:04,417 --> 02:17:04,667
litem and part of the DHS

3611
02:17:06,584 --> 02:17:06,834
plan was they had individual

3612
02:17:08,651 --> 02:17:08,901
counseling as much as they could

3613
02:17:10,717 --> 02:17:10,967
they were 3 and6 months at the

3614
02:17:11,384 --> 02:17:11,634
time I believe

3615
02:17:12,651 --> 02:17:12,901
and

3616
02:17:16,617 --> 02:17:16,867
so as much as as much as they

3617
02:17:18,617 --> 02:17:18,867
could I visited with her quite

3618
02:17:22,617 --> 02:17:22,867
often and you know aiden little

3619
02:17:24,417 --> 02:17:24,667
toddler he fell and hit his head

3620
02:17:26,251 --> 02:17:26,501
I would let her know we took him

3621
02:17:26,884 --> 02:17:27,134
to the emergency room. this is

3622
02:17:28,784 --> 02:17:29,034
what happened. you knowing we

3623
02:17:32,417 --> 02:17:32,667
did was documented and got them

3624
02:17:33,051 --> 02:17:33,301
through school and

3625
02:17:36,417 --> 02:17:36,667
was that during the paternity

3626
02:17:37,117 --> 02:17:37,367
determination or did that

3627
02:17:40,217 --> 02:17:40,467
continue on and after visitation

3628
02:17:40,917 --> 02:17:41,167
after this was after

3629
02:17:44,617 --> 02:17:44,867
well this is while the case was

3630
02:17:46,417 --> 02:17:46,667
still going on. I had them for a

3631
02:17:47,084 --> 02:17:47,334
little over a year

3632
02:17:50,617 --> 02:17:50,867
and before it was decided that

3633
02:17:52,584 --> 02:17:52,834
my daughter had done what she

3634
02:17:54,284 --> 02:17:54,534
needed to do and was granted

3635
02:17:54,951 --> 02:17:55,201
full custody

3636
02:17:58,751 --> 02:17:59,001
Any final questions

3637
02:18:06,251 --> 02:18:06,501
ing onen hicks you're recognized

3638
02:18:06,951 --> 02:18:07,201
for wrap up in the study

3639
02:18:10,784 --> 02:18:11,034
thank you Mr Chair thank you so

3640
02:18:11,451 --> 02:18:11,701
much for joining us today

3641
02:18:14,817 --> 02:18:15,067
I know that we are past time

3642
02:18:16,617 --> 02:18:16,867
but I prepared my remarks

3643
02:18:18,417 --> 02:18:18,667
because I knew I was going to be

3644
02:18:20,817 --> 02:18:21,067
emotional and I wanted to

3645
02:18:22,784 --> 02:18:23,034
make sure that my

3646
02:18:24,784 --> 02:18:25,034
colleagues've I've got the list

3647
02:18:28,217 --> 02:18:28,467
the NCsL sent we didn't

3648
02:18:28,784 --> 02:18:29,034
have anyone that was available

3649
02:18:30,817 --> 02:18:31,067
to present this research but

3650
02:18:32,784 --> 02:18:33,034
it is a national look and so I'm

3651
02:18:34,484 --> 02:18:34,734
gonna reference some of that in

3652
02:18:35,151 --> 02:18:35,401
my closing remarks

3653
02:18:36,984 --> 02:18:37,234
I really want to thank each of

3654
02:18:38,651 --> 02:18:38,901
our speakers for being here

3655
02:18:40,451 --> 02:18:40,701
today and sharing your

3656
02:18:42,417 --> 02:18:42,667
expertise, your experiences and

3657
02:18:44,284 --> 02:18:44,534
in some cases deeply personal

3658
02:18:44,984 --> 02:18:45,234
stories.

3659
02:18:46,684 --> 02:18:46,934
I want to begin by recognizing

3660
02:18:47,351 --> 02:18:47,601
something important.

3661
02:18:50,617 --> 02:18:50,867
supervised visitation is not

3662
02:18:52,584 --> 02:18:52,834
simply a scheduling arrangement

3663
02:18:54,317 --> 02:18:54,567
or a procedural requirement in a

3664
02:18:54,951 --> 02:18:55,201
court order.

3665
02:18:58,217 --> 02:18:58,467
when a court orders supervised

3666
02:18:58,851 --> 02:18:59,101
visitation it is making a

3667
02:19:00,617 --> 02:19:00,867
determination that supervision

3668
02:19:04,217 --> 02:19:04,467
is necessary to protect a child

3669
02:19:04,817 --> 02:19:05,067
or another party

3670
02:19:08,217 --> 02:19:08,467
Oklahoma law already recognizes

3671
02:19:08,884 --> 02:19:09,134
that the health safety and

3672
02:19:10,217 --> 02:19:10,467
welfare of the child are

3673
02:19:10,751 --> 02:19:11,001
paramount when supervised

3674
02:19:12,651 --> 02:19:12,901
visitation is ordered. That

3675
02:19:14,617 --> 02:19:14,867
means we have a responsibility

3676
02:19:15,251 --> 02:19:15,501
to ask a very basic question

3677
02:19:18,651 --> 02:19:18,901
does the system we have today

3678
02:19:20,817 --> 02:19:21,067
consistently provide the level

3679
02:19:24,217 --> 02:19:24,467
of safety training documentation

3680
02:19:26,217 --> 02:19:26,467
and accountability that families

3681
02:19:26,917 --> 02:19:27,167
and courts are relying upon it

3682
02:19:27,584 --> 02:19:27,834
to provide.

3683
02:19:30,617 --> 02:19:30,867
I think today's testimony has

3684
02:19:31,251 --> 02:19:31,501
helped us begin answering that

3685
02:19:31,917 --> 02:19:32,167
question

3686
02:19:34,617 --> 02:19:34,867
we heard about the role of the

3687
02:19:36,417 --> 02:19:36,667
courts and the differences that

3688
02:19:37,051 --> 02:19:37,301
can exist from one judicial

3689
02:19:38,851 --> 02:19:39,101
district to another. We heard

3690
02:19:40,651 --> 02:19:40,901
from child welfare professionals

3691
02:19:42,217 --> 02:19:42,467
about family time and the

3692
02:19:42,817 --> 02:19:43,067
practical challenges of

3693
02:19:44,884 --> 02:19:45,134
providing services we heard from

3694
02:19:46,617 --> 02:19:46,867
victim advocates in domestic

3695
02:19:48,417 --> 02:19:48,667
violence professionals about

3696
02:19:49,051 --> 02:19:49,301
safety planning and the

3697
02:19:50,884 --> 02:19:51,134
realities of highrisk cases and

3698
02:19:52,617 --> 02:19:52,867
we heard about the legal

3699
02:19:54,217 --> 02:19:54,467
considerations surrounding

3700
02:19:54,751 --> 02:19:55,001
parental rights and due process.

3701
02:19:56,817 --> 02:19:57,067
and most importantly we heard

3702
02:19:57,484 --> 02:19:57,734
Lizzie's story

3703
02:20:00,417 --> 02:20:00,667
want to thank Joe Walsh for

3704
02:20:01,017 --> 02:20:01,267
having the courage to share her

3705
02:20:01,717 --> 02:20:01,967
granddaughter's story with us

3706
02:20:06,217 --> 02:20:06,467
is easy when we're discussing

3707
02:20:08,217 --> 02:20:08,467
statutes protocols, provider

3708
02:20:08,851 --> 02:20:09,101
qualifications and court

3709
02:20:10,417 --> 02:20:10,667
procedures to lose sight of the

3710
02:20:11,084 --> 02:20:11,334
fact that behind every one of

3711
02:20:14,417 --> 02:20:14,667
these cases is a child in a

3712
02:20:15,051 --> 02:20:15,301
family whose lives are affected

3713
02:20:16,317 --> 02:20:16,567
by the decisions that we make.

3714
02:20:18,851 --> 02:20:19,101
Lizzie reminds us why this

3715
02:20:20,251 --> 02:20:20,501
conversation continues to

3716
02:20:20,817 --> 02:20:21,067
matter.

3717
02:20:22,984 --> 02:20:23,234
one of the clearest lessons from

3718
02:20:24,784 --> 02:20:25,034
today is that Oklahoma is not

3719
02:20:26,617 --> 02:20:26,867
starting from zero. Our current

3720
02:20:28,384 --> 02:20:28,634
law establishes the Oklahoma

3721
02:20:28,984 --> 02:20:29,234
Child Supervised

3722
02:20:32,217 --> 02:20:32,467
visitsitationgrame. it provides

3723
02:20:32,917 --> 02:20:33,167
for trained volunteers, judicial

3724
02:20:34,751 --> 02:20:35,001
district supervised visitation

3725
02:20:36,617 --> 02:20:36,867
teams, training requirements,

3726
02:20:38,217 --> 02:20:38,467
written protocols, background

3727
02:20:38,851 --> 02:20:39,101
checks and fitness determination

3728
02:20:39,517 --> 02:20:39,767
for volunteers.

3729
02:20:42,617 --> 02:20:42,867
Oklahoma law also provides that

3730
02:20:44,817 --> 02:20:45,067
volunteers must be able to see

3731
02:20:46,617 --> 02:20:46,867
and hear the interactions

3732
02:20:48,617 --> 02:20:48,867
between the supervised parent

3733
02:20:50,851 --> 02:20:51,101
and child and it requires

3734
02:20:52,417 --> 02:20:52,667
professional settings in certain

3735
02:20:54,617 --> 02:20:54,867
circumstances involving suicidal

3736
02:20:56,484 --> 02:20:56,734
or violent behavior unless

3737
02:20:57,051 --> 02:20:57,301
additional conditions are met.

3738
02:20:59,017 --> 02:20:59,267
those are important protections

3739
02:21:02,684 --> 02:21:02,934
but today's discussion also

3740
02:21:03,251 --> 02:21:03,501
raises an important issue.

3741
02:21:06,651 --> 02:21:06,901
having standards and statute is

3742
02:21:08,217 --> 02:21:08,467
not the same as having

3743
02:21:08,817 --> 02:21:09,067
consistent standards in

3744
02:21:09,384 --> 02:21:09,634
practice.

3745
02:21:12,884 --> 02:21:13,134
The research provided by the

3746
02:21:14,384 --> 02:21:14,634
national conference of state

3747
02:21:16,217 --> 02:21:16,467
Legislature shows that other

3748
02:21:16,817 --> 02:21:17,067
states have addressed and

3749
02:21:18,617 --> 02:21:18,867
have addressed supervised

3750
02:21:20,851 --> 02:21:21,101
visitation through more detailed

3751
02:21:24,217 --> 02:21:24,467
statewide standards governing

3752
02:21:24,851 --> 02:21:25,101
provider qualifications,

3753
02:21:28,217 --> 02:21:28,467
training, background screening,

3754
02:21:28,884 --> 02:21:29,134
security procedures

3755
02:21:30,417 --> 02:21:30,667
documentation, termination of

3756
02:21:32,884 --> 02:21:33,134
visits certification monitoring

3757
02:21:34,817 --> 02:21:35,067
and data collection. Those

3758
02:21:36,651 --> 02:21:36,901
examples give us an opportunity

3759
02:21:38,417 --> 02:21:38,667
to consider what Oklahoma's next

3760
02:21:39,051 --> 02:21:39,301
step could look like.

3761
02:21:42,251 --> 02:21:42,501
as we continue examining the

3762
02:21:42,817 --> 02:21:43,067
possibility of Lizzie's law, I

3763
02:21:44,517 --> 02:21:44,767
believe we should keep several

3764
02:21:45,184 --> 02:21:45,434
principles in front of us.

3765
02:21:48,451 --> 02:21:48,701
first, safety must be the

3766
02:21:50,451 --> 02:21:50,701
foundation a supervised

3767
02:21:52,217 --> 02:21:52,467
visitation program should have

3768
02:21:52,851 --> 02:21:53,101
clear procedures for assessing

3769
02:21:56,217 --> 02:21:56,467
risk, conducting visits,

3770
02:21:57,017 --> 02:21:57,267
responding to emergencies and

3771
02:21:58,517 --> 02:21:58,767
ending a visit when safety

3772
02:21:59,084 --> 02:21:59,334
becomes a concern.

3773
02:22:02,417 --> 02:22:02,667
national guidance from the US

3774
02:22:04,251 --> 02:22:04,501
Department of Justice emphasizes

3775
02:22:04,951 --> 02:22:05,201
the safety of both children and

3776
02:22:06,651 --> 02:22:06,901
adult victims in supervised

3777
02:22:08,451 --> 02:22:08,701
visitation and safe exchange

3778
02:22:09,017 --> 02:22:09,267
settings

3779
02:22:09,267 --> 02:22:09,517
Second

3780
02:22:12,417 --> 02:22:12,667
the people entrusted with

3781
02:22:14,417 --> 02:22:14,667
supervising these visits must be

3782
02:22:16,651 --> 02:22:16,901
properly prepared. That means

3783
02:22:18,417 --> 02:22:18,667
asking whether there should be

3784
02:22:19,084 --> 02:22:19,334
consistent statewide minimum

3785
02:22:20,851 --> 02:22:21,101
qualifications, background

3786
02:22:22,451 --> 02:22:22,701
checks and training for

3787
02:22:24,217 --> 02:22:24,467
professional providers and where

3788
02:22:24,884 --> 02:22:25,134
appropriate volunteers

3789
02:22:26,784 --> 02:22:27,034
California for example

3790
02:22:28,417 --> 02:22:28,667
established detailed

3791
02:22:30,217 --> 02:22:30,467
qualifications and training

3792
02:22:30,784 --> 02:22:31,034
requirements for professional

3793
02:22:32,784 --> 02:22:33,034
providers including training

3794
02:22:34,984 --> 02:22:35,234
related to child abuse reporting

3795
02:22:36,617 --> 02:22:36,867
recordkeeping screening and

3796
02:22:38,817 --> 02:22:39,067
termination of visitation child

3797
02:22:40,651 --> 02:22:40,901
development, confidentiality,

3798
02:22:42,417 --> 02:22:42,667
substance abuse and domestic

3799
02:22:43,051 --> 02:22:43,301
violence.

3800
02:22:46,217 --> 02:22:46,467
those are the kinds of questions

3801
02:22:46,851 --> 02:22:47,101
that Oklahoma should continue

3802
02:22:47,517 --> 02:22:47,767
examining

3803
02:22:50,317 --> 02:22:50,567
hi rd there must be meaningful

3804
02:22:50,984 --> 02:22:51,234
documentation

3805
02:22:52,817 --> 02:22:53,067
if something happens during a

3806
02:22:56,217 --> 02:22:56,467
supervised visit. if a court

3807
02:22:56,784 --> 02:22:57,034
order is violated, a child

3808
02:22:58,417 --> 02:22:58,667
becomes distressed an allegation

3809
02:23:00,417 --> 02:23:00,667
of abuse arises or a visit must

3810
02:23:02,217 --> 02:23:02,467
be interrupted or terminated.

3811
02:23:04,284 --> 02:23:04,534
there needs to be a reliable

3812
02:23:04,851 --> 02:23:05,101
record

3813
02:23:06,751 --> 02:23:07,001
California's framework for

3814
02:23:08,451 --> 02:23:08,701
example requires providers to

3815
02:23:10,217 --> 02:23:10,467
maintain records of visits,

3816
02:23:12,217 --> 02:23:12,467
attendance violations and

3817
02:23:12,817 --> 02:23:13,067
incidents of abuse and to

3818
02:23:14,484 --> 02:23:14,734
document interruptions or

3819
02:23:16,184 --> 02:23:16,434
terminations of visits.

3820
02:23:18,217 --> 02:23:18,467
Documentation is not about

3821
02:23:18,851 --> 02:23:19,101
creating unnecessary

3822
02:23:20,684 --> 02:23:20,934
bureaucracy. It is about

3823
02:23:22,217 --> 02:23:22,467
ensuring that courts have

3824
02:23:22,784 --> 02:23:23,034
accurate information when they

3825
02:23:24,451 --> 02:23:24,701
make decisions affecting a

3826
02:23:25,017 --> 02:23:25,267
child's safety.

3827
02:23:28,584 --> 02:23:28,834
ourth, accountability requires

3828
02:23:30,817 --> 02:23:31,067
oversight. We should ask who is

3829
02:23:32,617 --> 02:23:32,867
responsible for establishing

3830
02:23:34,451 --> 02:23:34,701
standards who verifies that

3831
02:23:36,217 --> 02:23:36,467
providers meet those standards

3832
02:23:36,817 --> 02:23:37,067
who receives complaints who

3833
02:23:38,617 --> 02:23:38,867
monitors compliances and what

3834
02:23:39,317 --> 02:23:39,567
happens when standards are not

3835
02:23:39,984 --> 02:23:40,234
followed.

3836
02:23:42,417 --> 02:23:42,667
Florida provides one example of

3837
02:23:44,184 --> 02:23:44,434
a statewide approach that

3838
02:23:44,784 --> 02:23:45,034
includes uniform standards

3839
02:23:46,851 --> 02:23:47,101
certification, monitoring, data

3840
02:23:48,651 --> 02:23:48,901
collection and an advisory

3841
02:23:50,417 --> 02:23:50,667
structure involving courts law

3842
02:23:51,051 --> 02:23:51,301
enforcement, supervised

3843
02:23:52,884 --> 02:23:53,134
visitation providers and other

3844
02:23:54,617 --> 02:23:54,867
stakeholders. Again these

3845
02:23:56,651 --> 02:23:56,901
examples are not necessarily a

3846
02:23:58,451 --> 02:23:58,701
blueprint for Oklahoma but they

3847
02:23:59,084 --> 02:23:59,334
demonstrate that other states

3848
02:24:00,651 --> 02:24:00,901
have recognized the need for

3849
02:24:01,284 --> 02:24:01,534
consistency and accountability.

3850
02:24:04,617 --> 02:24:04,867
and we also have to talk about

3851
02:24:05,284 --> 02:24:05,534
access

3852
02:24:08,417 --> 02:24:08,667
because at the same time

3853
02:24:10,217 --> 02:24:10,467
accountability cannot come at

3854
02:24:12,184 --> 02:24:12,434
the expense of access. We have

3855
02:24:12,917 --> 02:24:13,167
to recognize the realities faced

3856
02:24:13,617 --> 02:24:13,867
by families in rural Oklahoma

3857
02:24:16,584 --> 02:24:16,834
a standard that exists on paper

3858
02:24:18,617 --> 02:24:18,867
but cannot be accessed by a

3859
02:24:20,217 --> 02:24:20,467
family because there's no

3860
02:24:20,851 --> 02:24:21,101
qualified provider within a

3861
02:24:22,784 --> 02:24:23,034
reasonable distance does not

3862
02:24:24,884 --> 02:24:25,134
fully serve that family so as we

3863
02:24:26,651 --> 02:24:26,901
consider stronger sta standards

3864
02:24:28,651 --> 02:24:28,901
we must also consider provider

3865
02:24:30,417 --> 02:24:30,667
capacity rural communities,

3866
02:24:32,417 --> 02:24:32,667
affordability, transportation

3867
02:24:33,017 --> 02:24:33,267
and sustainable funding

3868
02:24:36,217 --> 02:24:36,467
safety and accessibility cannot

3869
02:24:38,184 --> 02:24:38,434
be treated as competing values.

3870
02:24:38,984 --> 02:24:39,234
We need to look for ways to

3871
02:24:39,551 --> 02:24:39,801
address both

3872
02:24:42,851 --> 02:24:43,101
we also heard an important

3873
02:24:44,451 --> 02:24:44,701
reminder today that this

3874
02:24:46,217 --> 02:24:46,467
conversation must respect due

3875
02:24:46,851 --> 02:24:47,101
process and parental

3876
02:24:48,617 --> 02:24:48,867
rightsrengthening supervised

3877
02:24:50,451 --> 02:24:50,701
visitation standards does not

3878
02:24:52,217 --> 02:24:52,467
mean eliminating the role of the

3879
02:24:53,051 --> 02:24:53,301
courts or replacing judicial

3880
02:24:54,451 --> 02:24:54,701
decision making with the

3881
02:24:56,417 --> 02:24:56,667
statewide administrative system.

3882
02:24:58,217 --> 02:24:58,467
It means giving courts and

3883
02:24:58,851 --> 02:24:59,101
families a framework that is

3884
02:25:00,851 --> 02:25:01,101
clear, consistent and safety

3885
02:25:02,851 --> 02:25:03,101
informed. The goal should be to

3886
02:25:04,384 --> 02:25:04,634
ensure that when a court

3887
02:25:04,984 --> 02:25:05,234
determines supervise

3888
02:25:06,851 --> 02:25:07,101
visititation is necessary, the

3889
02:25:08,884 --> 02:25:09,134
supervision actually provides

3890
02:25:10,451 --> 02:25:10,701
what the court intended a safe

3891
02:25:12,617 --> 02:25:12,867
environment for the child and

3892
02:25:14,451 --> 02:25:14,701
appropriate accountability for

3893
02:25:15,084 --> 02:25:15,334
everyone involved.

3894
02:25:18,617 --> 02:25:18,867
so where do we go from here for

3895
02:25:20,451 --> 02:25:20,701
me the question coming out of

3896
02:25:21,051 --> 02:25:21,301
today's study is not simply

3897
02:25:22,651 --> 02:25:22,901
whether Oklahoma should have

3898
02:25:24,451 --> 02:25:24,701
supervised visitation we already

3899
02:25:26,417 --> 02:25:26,667
do. The question is whether we

3900
02:25:27,051 --> 02:25:27,301
can make the system more

3901
02:25:30,217 --> 02:25:30,467
consistent, more transparent,

3902
02:25:30,817 --> 02:25:31,067
more accountable and more

3903
02:25:32,851 --> 02:25:33,101
focused on safety and I believe

3904
02:25:34,451 --> 02:25:34,701
today's testimony gives us

3905
02:25:35,084 --> 02:25:35,334
several areas to continue

3906
02:25:35,617 --> 02:25:35,867
examining.

3907
02:25:38,284 --> 02:25:38,534
we owe it

3908
02:25:41,051 --> 02:25:41,301
to the children we owe it to

3909
02:25:42,617 --> 02:25:42,867
parents we owe it to

3910
02:25:44,817 --> 02:25:45,067
grandparents and caregivers. We

3911
02:25:46,417 --> 02:25:46,667
owe it to the professionals who

3912
02:25:48,217 --> 02:25:48,467
are being asked to carry out

3913
02:25:50,251 --> 02:25:50,501
these difficult responsibilities

3914
02:25:50,951 --> 02:25:51,201
and ultimately we owe it to the

3915
02:25:51,617 --> 02:25:51,867
integrity

3916
02:25:54,651 --> 02:25:54,901
excuse me we owe it to the

3917
02:25:56,584 --> 02:25:56,834
integrity of our court system.

3918
02:25:58,217 --> 02:25:58,467
today's testimony has given us a

3919
02:26:00,251 --> 02:26:00,501
great deal to consider and I'm

3920
02:26:00,851 --> 02:26:01,101
very grateful to every person

3921
02:26:02,617 --> 02:26:02,867
who contributed their expertise

3922
02:26:04,617 --> 02:26:04,867
and their experience. Our

3923
02:26:06,584 --> 02:26:06,834
responsibility now is to take

3924
02:26:08,384 --> 02:26:08,634
what we've learned, continue

3925
02:26:09,017 --> 02:26:09,267
listening to the people closest

3926
02:26:10,817 --> 02:26:11,067
to this work, examine the

3927
02:26:12,451 --> 02:26:12,701
evidence and determine what

3928
02:26:14,284 --> 02:26:14,534
where Oklahoma can strengthen

3929
02:26:14,951 --> 02:26:15,201
its approach.

3930
02:26:16,651 --> 02:26:16,901
the purpose of this study is not

3931
02:26:18,451 --> 02:26:18,701
to assume that we already have

3932
02:26:20,251 --> 02:26:20,501
every answer. in fact I had very

3933
02:26:20,951 --> 02:26:21,201
few answers when I started this

3934
02:26:21,617 --> 02:26:21,867
study

3935
02:26:24,617 --> 02:26:24,867
but it is to ensure that we are

3936
02:26:26,617 --> 02:26:26,867
making a concerted effort to

3937
02:26:28,984 --> 02:26:29,234
asking the right questions and I

3938
02:26:30,351 --> 02:26:30,601
believe today has helped us to

3939
02:26:31,017 --> 02:26:31,267
do that

3940
02:26:32,417 --> 02:26:32,667
thank you Mr Chair

3941
02:26:38,251 --> 02:26:38,501
thank you all for your

3942
02:26:38,784 --> 02:26:39,034
participation in the study. I

3943
02:26:40,451 --> 02:26:40,701
know that we have a few online

3944
02:26:41,084 --> 02:26:41,334
as well. thank you for joining

3945
02:26:41,751 --> 02:26:42,001
us virtually

3946
02:26:44,384 --> 02:26:44,634
senator Hicks thank you for

3947
02:26:44,984 --> 02:26:45,234
bringing this forward looking

3948
02:26:45,617 --> 02:26:45,867
forward to

3949
02:26:48,617 --> 02:26:48,867
seeing what legislation may come

3950
02:26:49,251 --> 02:26:49,501
out of it at some point in the

3951
02:26:49,917 --> 02:26:50,167
future

3952
02:26:52,417 --> 02:26:52,667
seeing no further business

3953
02:26:54,451 --> 02:26:54,701
before Senate judiciary our next

3954
02:26:56,251 --> 02:26:56,501
meeting is scheduled for

3955
02:26:58,851 --> 02:26:59,101
October6 interim study by fuller

3956
02:27:00,851 --> 02:27:01,101
daniels it's a joint study with

3957
02:27:02,817 --> 02:27:03,067
the house and then we'll have

3958
02:27:04,651 --> 02:27:04,901
a follow up after that next one

3959
02:27:06,651 --> 02:27:06,901
will be on 10 sens so members of

3960
02:27:08,217 --> 02:27:08,467
the committee look forward to

3961
02:27:10,217 --> 02:27:10,467
seeing you then having no

3962
02:27:10,784 --> 02:27:11,034
further businessenate judiciary

3963
02:27:11,451 --> 02:27:11,701
is adjourned