1 00:00:10,240 --> 00:00:12,160 All right, being the top of the hour, 2 00:00:12,160 --> 00:00:14,880 call to order tonight's Sony Board of 3 00:00:14,880 --> 00:00:19,840 Appeals meeting, August 19th, 2026 one 4 00:00:19,840 --> 00:00:21,840 item on the agenda is a continuation of 5 00:00:21,840 --> 00:00:24,800 the public hearing uh for zero break 6 00:00:24,800 --> 00:00:28,080 road, the appeal decision, an adverse 7 00:00:28,080 --> 00:00:29,679 decision from the building commissioner 8 00:00:29,679 --> 00:00:31,439 request for variance and for special 9 00:00:31,439 --> 00:00:34,480 permit. Uh 10 00:00:34,480 --> 00:00:37,760 this is a continuation at the request of 11 00:00:37,760 --> 00:00:39,520 the applicant from last meeting as we 12 00:00:39,520 --> 00:00:41,760 were short timers. We are we have all 13 00:00:41,760 --> 00:00:44,879 five members tonight. Uh so we can uh 14 00:00:44,879 --> 00:00:49,200 get back. Um we'll do I'm expecting 15 00:00:49,200 --> 00:00:52,559 we'll probably do a truncated version of how we normally do things as we've 16 00:00:52,559 --> 00:00:54,800 already gone through everything before. 17 00:00:54,800 --> 00:00:56,239 Um, and obviously I'll leave it to the 18 00:00:56,239 --> 00:00:58,079 discretion of the members to the extent 19 00:00:58,079 --> 00:00:59,359 that they have additional questions and 20 00:00:59,359 --> 00:01:01,359 comments, but I will turn the floor over 21 00:01:01,359 --> 00:01:03,680 to you all uh for at least a few minutes 22 00:01:03,680 --> 00:01:05,680 to provide any sort of additional 23 00:01:05,680 --> 00:01:07,360 information or if there's anything that 24 00:01:07,360 --> 00:01:11,280 you wanted to respond to um that was 25 00:01:11,280 --> 00:01:13,680 brought up at the um uh the beginning of 26 00:01:13,680 --> 00:01:15,760 the public hearing or has come to light 27 00:01:15,760 --> 00:01:17,920 since uh you're welcome to do so. So 28 00:01:17,920 --> 00:01:19,439 with that, I'll turn the floor back over 29 00:01:19,439 --> 00:01:20,320 to the 30 00:01:20,320 --> 00:01:22,640 >> Hi everyone again. My name is Nick Mes, 31 00:01:22,640 --> 00:01:27,520 longtime resident here, class of 94. Um, 32 00:01:27,520 --> 00:01:29,119 I'm the president of the Stone Alliance 33 00:01:29,119 --> 00:01:31,520 Club. Right now, I'm joined by Gord 34 00:01:31,520 --> 00:01:35,520 Chava, my vice president. Um, Paul York, 35 00:01:35,520 --> 00:01:38,720 our my treasurer. Uh, Phil Belts, um, 36 00:01:38,720 --> 00:01:41,520 our board member, and Arie, one of our 37 00:01:41,520 --> 00:01:45,280 charter members. He started this club 65 38 00:01:45,280 --> 00:01:48,079 years ago. He purchased this plot of 39 00:01:48,079 --> 00:01:51,439 land that we're talking about today. So 40 00:01:51,439 --> 00:01:54,720 I thought in light of this discussion 41 00:01:54,720 --> 00:01:56,799 there was a lot of conversation about 42 00:01:56,799 --> 00:01:59,520 what was the land used before what is it 43 00:01:59,520 --> 00:02:01,920 used throughout the 50 years year 44 00:02:01,920 --> 00:02:05,439 period. We brought army as a 45 00:02:05,439 --> 00:02:14,319 as living memory of this land. Um so um we are contesting the the 46 00:02:14,319 --> 00:02:17,680 season is based off of 50 years of 47 00:02:17,680 --> 00:02:19,599 continual 48 00:02:19,599 --> 00:02:21,920 non 49 00:02:21,920 --> 00:02:24,560 conforming use of this residential lot. 50 00:02:24,560 --> 00:02:26,160 We didn't know it was residential at 51 00:02:26,160 --> 00:02:31,360 all. Um, do you have to do that? 52 00:02:31,360 --> 00:02:35,280 No. Um, I think what we'd like to do is, 53 00:02:35,280 --> 00:02:38,319 uh, continue where we left off, which 54 00:02:38,319 --> 00:02:40,160 was, I guess, about over a month ago 55 00:02:40,160 --> 00:02:43,519 now. And, um, address any further 56 00:02:43,519 --> 00:02:46,560 questions you might have. 57 00:02:46,560 --> 00:02:47,120 And, uh, 58 00:02:47,120 --> 00:02:49,040 >> would you like to tell the story? Yeah. 59 00:02:49,040 --> 00:02:50,080 short speaker. 60 00:02:50,080 --> 00:02:53,200 >> Okay. And Arie would like to speak, so 61 00:02:53,200 --> 00:02:56,000 it's okay. We'd like to let him do that 62 00:02:56,000 --> 00:02:56,720 right now. Of 63 00:02:56,720 --> 00:02:59,120 >> course, I appreciate it. Okay. The thing 64 00:02:59,120 --> 00:03:02,480 is, this land was purchased in in 78. We 65 00:03:02,480 --> 00:03:06,000 purchased a big strawberry strawberry 66 00:03:06,000 --> 00:03:07,680 field 67 00:03:07,680 --> 00:03:09,920 and and and 68 00:03:09,920 --> 00:03:14,319 at that time um let me see here. um all 69 00:03:14,319 --> 00:03:19,200 right some purchases 78 not sure the 70 00:03:19,200 --> 00:03:21,280 thing that got me is I don't know how it 71 00:03:21,280 --> 00:03:23,680 became residential but at that time it 72 00:03:23,680 --> 00:03:26,480 wasn't residential at all what what 73 00:03:26,480 --> 00:03:28,800 really gets me is that even the office 74 00:03:28,800 --> 00:03:32,720 complex across the street you know and 75 00:03:32,720 --> 00:03:34,159 you got the gas station and you got the 76 00:03:34,159 --> 00:03:36,239 liquor store and and how this land 77 00:03:36,239 --> 00:03:38,239 became residential I I don't understand 78 00:03:38,239 --> 00:03:43,200 it but um the thing is that um um I'll 79 00:03:43,200 --> 00:03:45,440 tell you what we had on the land on the 80 00:03:45,440 --> 00:03:48,159 land with many years ago. We had a car, 81 00:03:48,159 --> 00:03:51,120 we had a carnival, we had a car a horse 82 00:03:51,120 --> 00:03:54,319 show, we had a jeep um service, a jeep 83 00:03:54,319 --> 00:03:57,519 swap, uh cow swap, we had all those 84 00:03:57,519 --> 00:04:00,720 things many years ago. And then for 85 00:04:00,720 --> 00:04:03,280 years we had the spring, the fall fall 86 00:04:03,280 --> 00:04:05,519 flea market and that food trailer was 87 00:04:05,519 --> 00:04:08,640 there all the time. And and now we had 88 00:04:08,640 --> 00:04:11,599 the f festival for the last two years. 89 00:04:11,599 --> 00:04:14,000 All the money raised go to the nonprofit 90 00:04:14,000 --> 00:04:15,519 to the town [clears throat] 91 00:04:15,519 --> 00:04:17,440 and and I'm going to give you an idea of 92 00:04:17,440 --> 00:04:20,720 what we did for the town over the years. 93 00:04:20,720 --> 00:04:22,240 We did a lot of things for the town of 94 00:04:22,240 --> 00:04:25,199 Sto. We bought a fax machine to for the 95 00:04:25,199 --> 00:04:28,400 town hall years ago, a hearing m machine 96 00:04:28,400 --> 00:04:30,800 for the school years ago. Chainsaw the 97 00:04:30,800 --> 00:04:35,199 fire department. Um we bought a money to 98 00:04:35,199 --> 00:04:36,720 a boat and motor for the police 99 00:04:36,720 --> 00:04:38,378 department. This is all the fun we 100 00:04:38,378 --> 00:04:39,919 [clears throat] did with money that we 101 00:04:39,919 --> 00:04:43,840 made raising max everything on the land. 102 00:04:43,840 --> 00:04:47,548 And um and then um let me see 103 00:04:47,548 --> 00:04:51,840 [clears throat] also um we provided um 104 00:04:51,840 --> 00:04:54,160 labor for the for the town store for the 105 00:04:54,160 --> 00:04:58,240 uh laboring material for town beach. Um 106 00:04:58,240 --> 00:05:01,600 let me see another thing. Um, oh also 107 00:05:01,600 --> 00:05:05,040 when and this is long time it's late 60s 108 00:05:05,040 --> 00:05:11,120 officer fail got shot when the purity market was in stow in 109 00:05:11,120 --> 00:05:14,320 late 60s and the lions club paid their 110 00:05:14,320 --> 00:05:16,560 light bill they call the light and power 111 00:05:16,560 --> 00:05:18,400 said we paid the light bill for two 112 00:05:18,400 --> 00:05:27,680 years plus we contributed money money to them too you know this is um and right and it's right now 113 00:05:27,680 --> 00:05:30,639 today Then today it's not easy to raise 114 00:05:30,639 --> 00:05:33,039 money to contribute money. It's hard to 115 00:05:33,039 --> 00:05:35,680 raise the money and right now also we 116 00:05:35,680 --> 00:05:37,360 got two projects that we're doing in 117 00:05:37,360 --> 00:05:39,840 town here. One is the town common sign. 118 00:05:39,840 --> 00:05:41,520 I don't know if you know town common 119 00:05:41,520 --> 00:05:43,360 sign come says when they have the town 120 00:05:43,360 --> 00:05:45,680 elections and so forth 121 00:05:45,680 --> 00:05:47,360 that was a disaster. It was all falling 122 00:05:47,360 --> 00:05:49,840 apart. The club got together and we have 123 00:05:49,840 --> 00:05:51,280 members that are working on that right 124 00:05:51,280 --> 00:05:54,240 now. It's ready to be ready to go. 125 00:05:54,240 --> 00:05:56,720 >> Yep. And also the trolley station. I 126 00:05:56,720 --> 00:05:59,120 live I live in Hudson. right now. And I 127 00:05:59,120 --> 00:06:00,639 came down one day and I'm sitting in the 128 00:06:00,639 --> 00:06:03,039 light and I go, "Oh my god, I can't 129 00:06:03,039 --> 00:06:04,479 believe that trolley station. It's a 130 00:06:04,479 --> 00:06:07,360 disaster. It's it's a landmark, you 131 00:06:07,360 --> 00:06:08,639 know, and the town's not doing nothing 132 00:06:08,639 --> 00:06:11,039 with it." So we said to the club, "Look 133 00:06:11,039 --> 00:06:12,960 into it." So right now, Philip been 134 00:06:12,960 --> 00:06:14,560 looking into it, see what we can do to 135 00:06:14,560 --> 00:06:21,430 be rever, 136 00:06:21,440 --> 00:06:24,319 you know, it's it's hard to raise money 137 00:06:24,319 --> 00:06:26,160 for the town. That's it. Thank you very 138 00:06:26,160 --> 00:06:27,759 much. 139 00:06:27,759 --> 00:06:28,560 Sorry. 140 00:06:28,560 --> 00:06:32,800 >> Yeah. Thanks. Thank you. 141 00:06:32,800 --> 00:06:36,240 >> Thank you guys. Uh questions, issues to 142 00:06:36,240 --> 00:06:39,600 be raised with the applicant. 143 00:06:39,600 --> 00:06:47,909 Um 144 00:06:47,919 --> 00:06:50,319 any questions or comments from town 145 00:06:50,319 --> 00:06:51,840 staff? 146 00:06:51,840 --> 00:06:55,280 Just since the thing was submitted, um, 147 00:06:55,280 --> 00:06:58,639 you say there was like a food truck 148 00:06:58,639 --> 00:07:01,680 festival, a yard sale, in the fall, 149 00:07:01,680 --> 00:07:04,240 there was a spring yard sale, there were 150 00:07:04,240 --> 00:07:07,039 spring and fall flea markets. When those 151 00:07:07,039 --> 00:07:09,039 events were not occurring, how was the 152 00:07:09,039 --> 00:07:11,440 land being used? 153 00:07:11,440 --> 00:07:13,039 >> How was the land being used? 154 00:07:13,039 --> 00:07:15,599 >> Yes. Was it 155 00:07:15,599 --> 00:07:17,759 >> uh lots of people would come on with 156 00:07:17,759 --> 00:07:20,000 their dogs. It was used as a common 157 00:07:20,000 --> 00:07:22,400 area. trucks parked there all the time 158 00:07:22,400 --> 00:07:25,360 and go across the street to the people 159 00:07:25,360 --> 00:07:28,880 go fishing. We that that land is open to 160 00:07:28,880 --> 00:07:31,599 the public. 161 00:07:31,599 --> 00:07:33,440 >> You decided a long time ago, right, 162 00:07:33,440 --> 00:07:37,039 Arie, that you weren't going to prohibit 163 00:07:37,039 --> 00:07:38,960 people from using the land even though 164 00:07:38,960 --> 00:07:39,599 we own it. 165 00:07:39,599 --> 00:07:40,880 >> It's public use. 166 00:07:40,880 --> 00:07:44,560 >> Public use. We are fully insured if 167 00:07:44,560 --> 00:07:47,360 something, god forbid, should happen to 168 00:07:47,360 --> 00:07:49,280 somebody, you know, using the land. 169 00:07:49,280 --> 00:07:52,639 There's been weddings on that land. 170 00:07:52,639 --> 00:07:55,120 >> Yeah. And there there are lots of 171 00:07:55,120 --> 00:07:58,240 picnics that people have because it's a 172 00:07:58,240 --> 00:08:00,000 it's like a park. 173 00:08:00,000 --> 00:08:00,400 >> Yeah. 174 00:08:00,400 --> 00:08:02,479 >> It was a park before we had any parks in 175 00:08:02,479 --> 00:08:05,199 town. It was the park. There was no Hail 176 00:08:05,199 --> 00:08:07,440 School or there was Hail School back 177 00:08:07,440 --> 00:08:09,919 then, but that was about it. Right. 178 00:08:09,919 --> 00:08:11,840 That's right. There was no there was no 179 00:08:11,840 --> 00:08:13,840 snow field. 180 00:08:13,840 --> 00:08:16,400 That was the park. So, it's pretty much 181 00:08:16,400 --> 00:08:20,000 continuous use as needed. 182 00:08:20,000 --> 00:08:22,720 >> And I guess the reason I bring this up 183 00:08:22,720 --> 00:08:25,840 for for the board to consider is 184 00:08:25,840 --> 00:08:28,240 it sounds like 185 00:08:28,240 --> 00:08:30,080 there's been for instance the food truck 186 00:08:30,080 --> 00:08:33,680 festival was a temporary event and when 187 00:08:33,680 --> 00:08:36,159 that event was not occurring, 188 00:08:36,159 --> 00:08:38,399 the land for the majority of the rest of 189 00:08:38,399 --> 00:08:41,360 the time was not being used in a similar 190 00:08:41,360 --> 00:08:46,160 way. So I wouldn't I guess the board 191 00:08:46,160 --> 00:08:49,200 would need to consider 192 00:08:49,200 --> 00:08:52,959 is a food truck festival 193 00:08:52,959 --> 00:08:56,399 the use of the site because that would 194 00:08:56,399 --> 00:08:58,880 be what the appeal and the variance 195 00:08:58,880 --> 00:09:01,760 would be for in the special permit under 196 00:09:01,760 --> 00:09:03,279 39. 197 00:09:03,279 --> 00:09:05,600 So if 198 00:09:05,600 --> 00:09:07,519 an event happens, does that change the 199 00:09:07,519 --> 00:09:11,279 land use or does that remain? 200 00:09:11,279 --> 00:09:12,480 >> Right. But just to be clear, whenever 201 00:09:12,480 --> 00:09:15,519 you guys had food truck festivals, um 202 00:09:15,519 --> 00:09:17,200 that was subject to a special event 203 00:09:17,200 --> 00:09:20,880 permit [clears throat] that select when 204 00:09:20,880 --> 00:09:23,440 >> required. Special events are only 205 00:09:23,440 --> 00:09:25,040 prevents 206 00:09:25,040 --> 00:09:27,040 aren't going back 65 years. 207 00:09:27,040 --> 00:09:29,120 >> Right. [clears throat] I think the point 208 00:09:29,120 --> 00:09:30,959 we're making is that it's never been 209 00:09:30,959 --> 00:09:33,040 used as residential. Yeah, it's 210 00:09:33,040 --> 00:09:39,279 continual nonconforming use for um for 211 00:09:39,279 --> 00:09:41,200 >> Yeah, 212 00:09:41,200 --> 00:09:42,480 I'd open up to the board for your 213 00:09:42,480 --> 00:09:44,320 consideration. I I I don't think it's 214 00:09:44,320 --> 00:09:46,720 about whether or not it's being used for 215 00:09:46,720 --> 00:09:51,920 a non-residential use. I think it's it's more specific to that. I think it's 216 00:09:51,920 --> 00:09:55,279 more whether or not the actual use has 217 00:09:55,279 --> 00:09:57,360 been continuing as opposed to well it's 218 00:09:57,360 --> 00:09:59,680 everything but a house for example or 219 00:09:59,680 --> 00:10:02,800 anything other than than residential. Uh 220 00:10:02,800 --> 00:10:04,399 and so the tricky thing here is the fact 221 00:10:04,399 --> 00:10:08,720 that we've got even if you were to I get 222 00:10:08,720 --> 00:10:10,560 the argument saying well it's not it's 223 00:10:10,560 --> 00:10:12,560 been non-residential use if you sort of 224 00:10:12,560 --> 00:10:15,200 string all the different uses together. 225 00:10:15,200 --> 00:10:20,079 Um, but in terms of, you know, 226 00:10:20,079 --> 00:10:22,399 if you look at, for example, the 227 00:10:22,399 --> 00:10:24,880 pre-existing non-conforming uses that we 228 00:10:24,880 --> 00:10:27,279 see here, like those are people who have 229 00:10:27,279 --> 00:10:29,440 had something on their property being 230 00:10:29,440 --> 00:10:31,600 used the exact same way for the last 15 231 00:10:31,600 --> 00:10:37,350 years. Um, as opposed to 232 00:10:37,360 --> 00:10:38,000 » Go ahead. 233 00:10:38,000 --> 00:10:41,200 >> Stowers is an example. Um, it has been a 234 00:10:41,200 --> 00:10:44,800 golf course since 1926. 235 00:10:44,800 --> 00:10:47,839 Um, and that was before the town adopted 236 00:10:47,839 --> 00:10:50,240 zoning and it's been used that way 237 00:10:50,240 --> 00:10:53,120 before. And 238 00:10:53,120 --> 00:10:54,560 because of that, it's considered 239 00:10:54,560 --> 00:10:57,440 pre-existing non-conforming use because 240 00:10:57,440 --> 00:11:00,720 it's maintained operating golf course 241 00:11:00,720 --> 00:11:03,519 for at the this is their 100th 242 00:11:03,519 --> 00:11:05,040 anniversary, 243 00:11:05,040 --> 00:11:07,279 >> even though all that land is tech 244 00:11:07,279 --> 00:11:09,040 >> and all of that land is within the 245 00:11:09,040 --> 00:11:11,600 presidential district. 246 00:11:11,600 --> 00:11:14,240 That's just point 247 00:11:14,240 --> 00:11:19,360 um but but if I get your point with 248 00:11:19,360 --> 00:11:20,320 the argument 249 00:11:20,320 --> 00:11:23,172 >> I have one quick question um just 250 00:11:23,172 --> 00:11:24,800 [clears throat] on the historical part 251 00:11:24,800 --> 00:11:27,360 on maintenance kind of maintaining the 252 00:11:27,360 --> 00:11:29,920 land um it always looks very maintained 253 00:11:29,920 --> 00:11:32,800 is that the typical 254 00:11:32,800 --> 00:11:36,240 >> that's that's always been the typical um 255 00:11:36,240 --> 00:11:40,240 in past years we've hired people to uh 256 00:11:40,240 --> 00:11:41,600 cut the lawn 257 00:11:41,600 --> 00:11:44,640 and it's well maintained 258 00:11:44,640 --> 00:11:45,920 uh this year. 259 00:11:45,920 --> 00:11:49,360 >> So if I if I can subject 260 00:11:49,360 --> 00:11:52,320 >> um the Toronto 261 00:11:52,320 --> 00:11:54,720 DN 262 00:11:54,720 --> 00:11:58,160 farms always cut our field because back 263 00:11:58,160 --> 00:12:01,120 years and years ago 264 00:12:01,120 --> 00:12:04,560 >> we had a real snow snowstorm 265 00:12:04,560 --> 00:12:07,600 >> we um they almost lost the greenhouse. 266 00:12:07,600 --> 00:12:09,440 If it wasn't for the Lions Club, they 267 00:12:09,440 --> 00:12:11,600 would have lost every greenhouse. And we 268 00:12:11,600 --> 00:12:13,200 went down clean the green houses off. 269 00:12:13,200 --> 00:12:15,760 And ever since then, they just went down 270 00:12:15,760 --> 00:12:18,399 cut that field every single year. Every 271 00:12:18,399 --> 00:12:21,120 single year they cut that bill. 272 00:12:21,120 --> 00:12:23,200 It's unbelievable what they did for us. 273 00:12:23,200 --> 00:12:25,440 >> I think they they only take a few bucks 274 00:12:25,440 --> 00:12:27,279 for diesel. 275 00:12:27,279 --> 00:12:30,399 >> Gas. They appreciated our contributions 276 00:12:30,399 --> 00:12:34,880 to the town and they and they um 277 00:12:34,880 --> 00:12:39,200 respected us and and in turn our fields 278 00:12:39,200 --> 00:12:41,920 for decades. Now we've taken on cutting 279 00:12:41,920 --> 00:12:44,880 in ourselves. [snorts] Well, this year 280 00:12:44,880 --> 00:12:47,360 in part of the agreement that we have 281 00:12:47,360 --> 00:12:50,880 with the food truck vendor that's there, 282 00:12:50,880 --> 00:12:53,920 he's the one who's cutting the grass for 283 00:12:53,920 --> 00:12:56,399 us in addition to giving us $400 a 284 00:12:56,399 --> 00:12:59,200 month. cuts the grass as part of his 285 00:12:59,200 --> 00:13:02,880 agreement and he's not charging us for 286 00:13:02,880 --> 00:13:05,440 the gasoline. 287 00:13:05,440 --> 00:13:07,040 I think he's done a pretty good job the 288 00:13:07,040 --> 00:13:08,880 ship. 289 00:13:08,880 --> 00:13:10,639 So that's another benefit that we get 290 00:13:10,639 --> 00:13:13,200 from having that truck there and the 291 00:13:13,200 --> 00:13:15,200 town gets I should say because it's open 292 00:13:15,200 --> 00:13:16,880 to the public. [clears throat] And 293 00:13:16,880 --> 00:13:19,360 recently we got a request from the 294 00:13:19,360 --> 00:13:21,519 constructions company to store their 295 00:13:21,519 --> 00:13:26,320 equipment and goods and consistent to 296 00:13:26,320 --> 00:13:29,920 the Lion's Way. We granted that to the 297 00:13:29,920 --> 00:13:32,160 best of the town, right? And then we 298 00:13:32,160 --> 00:13:34,720 submitted the proper paperwork to the 299 00:13:34,720 --> 00:13:37,600 town uh signed agreement with the 300 00:13:37,600 --> 00:13:42,079 contractor that we allowed use of our 301 00:13:42,079 --> 00:13:44,079 land for the contractor to park his 302 00:13:44,079 --> 00:13:47,279 vehicles and also 303 00:13:47,279 --> 00:13:48,959 >> dump stone pipes. 304 00:13:48,959 --> 00:13:51,360 >> Stone pipes things that they would use 305 00:13:51,360 --> 00:13:53,440 for public body there. 306 00:13:53,440 --> 00:13:54,720 >> Yep. 307 00:13:54,720 --> 00:13:57,839 >> We could have rejected that. 308 00:13:57,839 --> 00:13:59,600 So, 309 00:13:59,600 --> 00:14:02,800 we plan to continue to maintain that 310 00:14:02,800 --> 00:14:08,870 lawn that's spicy in 311 00:14:08,880 --> 00:14:10,639 I'll just open it up. I know there's 312 00:14:10,639 --> 00:14:12,800 nobody else here in the room uh other 313 00:14:12,800 --> 00:14:15,440 than represent the applicant, but I'll 314 00:14:15,440 --> 00:14:17,920 kind of reopen for public comment to the 315 00:14:17,920 --> 00:14:19,600 extent that there's anyone on Zoom that 316 00:14:19,600 --> 00:14:21,680 would like to make a public comment or 317 00:14:21,680 --> 00:14:24,000 question. Um, please sort of virtually 318 00:14:24,000 --> 00:14:25,760 raise your hand. Michael will unmute 319 00:14:25,760 --> 00:14:28,800 you. Um, just please state your name, 320 00:14:28,800 --> 00:14:30,560 your address. 321 00:14:30,560 --> 00:14:32,720 >> They can unmute themselves. 322 00:14:32,720 --> 00:14:34,800 I don't have that. 323 00:14:34,800 --> 00:14:37,440 >> They have that ability right now. So, if 324 00:14:37,440 --> 00:14:38,560 you're having trouble, you can unmute 325 00:14:38,560 --> 00:14:43,910 yourself. Just say, "Hey, 326 00:14:43,920 --> 00:14:45,440 » there's Dave." 327 00:14:45,440 --> 00:14:47,120 >> Yeah. 328 00:14:47,120 --> 00:14:49,600 Hello. Uh, this is David Gray. I'm also 329 00:14:49,600 --> 00:14:52,399 a member of the Lions Club and I just 330 00:14:52,399 --> 00:14:55,279 wanted to um concur with the things that 331 00:14:55,279 --> 00:14:58,959 were said there that uh there is a long 332 00:14:58,959 --> 00:15:01,199 uh long-standing 333 00:15:01,199 --> 00:15:04,560 use of that in non what I would consider 334 00:15:04,560 --> 00:15:06,079 nonconforming 335 00:15:06,079 --> 00:15:09,199 and the requirement for 336 00:15:09,199 --> 00:15:12,320 special events is really a recent thing. 337 00:15:12,320 --> 00:15:14,320 I mean, that's only since the recent 338 00:15:14,320 --> 00:15:16,800 administration has come in and things 339 00:15:16,800 --> 00:15:18,959 were held there long before that ever 340 00:15:18,959 --> 00:15:21,519 existed. 341 00:15:21,519 --> 00:15:22,800 >> Thank you. 342 00:15:22,800 --> 00:15:24,720 Mr. Mayor. Oh, just for the 343 00:15:24,720 --> 00:15:26,399 record, what's your address? 344 00:15:26,399 --> 00:15:28,399 >> I'm sorry. I'm at [clears throat] 34 345 00:15:28,399 --> 00:15:30,240 Meeting House Lane. 346 00:15:30,240 --> 00:15:36,389 >> Excellent. Thank you. 347 00:15:36,399 --> 00:15:40,959 » All right. Any other uh questions or um 348 00:15:40,959 --> 00:15:42,399 piece of information that we're looking 349 00:15:42,399 --> 00:15:55,645 for from the applicant 350 00:15:55,655 --> 00:16:01,910 [clears throat] 351 00:16:01,920 --> 00:16:03,680 is now closed. we can no longer take 352 00:16:03,680 --> 00:16:05,279 information from the applicant nor can 353 00:16:05,279 --> 00:16:08,480 we take any public comments 354 00:16:08,480 --> 00:16:11,120 um either in person or online or 355 00:16:11,120 --> 00:16:14,160 otherwise virtually. Um otherwise I'll 356 00:16:14,160 --> 00:16:16,399 um open it up to the floor for any 357 00:16:16,399 --> 00:16:18,399 discussion. 358 00:16:18,399 --> 00:16:19,279 >> Um [clears throat] 359 00:16:19,279 --> 00:16:23,199 so just to make sure I can now discuss 360 00:16:23,199 --> 00:16:25,120 what I'm thinking, feeling, what I'd 361 00:16:25,120 --> 00:16:26,480 like to do. Correct. 362 00:16:26,480 --> 00:16:27,199 >> Yes. Okay. 363 00:16:27,199 --> 00:16:27,839 >> Yes. That 364 00:16:27,839 --> 00:16:29,440 >> just because this is my f first time the 365 00:16:29,440 --> 00:16:31,600 CBA wanted just to make sure. 366 00:16:31,600 --> 00:16:33,519 >> Yeah. You know that that being said like 367 00:16:33,519 --> 00:16:37,600 any any kind of um any decision that you 368 00:16:37,600 --> 00:16:38,720 have doesn't really count until you 369 00:16:38,720 --> 00:16:39,199 actually 370 00:16:39,199 --> 00:16:40,720 >> correct. This is just my my personal 371 00:16:40,720 --> 00:16:42,160 >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. This is to be a free 372 00:16:42,160 --> 00:16:43,040 flowing discussion. 373 00:16:43,040 --> 00:16:44,880 >> Yep. So I've been doing a lot of 374 00:16:44,880 --> 00:16:46,320 thinking about this over the past few 375 00:16:46,320 --> 00:16:50,480 weeks. um and you know read all the 376 00:16:50,480 --> 00:16:52,000 information that you know we've been 377 00:16:52,000 --> 00:16:55,199 given and from what I can tell and what 378 00:16:55,199 --> 00:16:59,279 I've read is while we have not provided 379 00:16:59,279 --> 00:17:02,160 or given a use variance I haven't seen 380 00:17:02,160 --> 00:17:04,720 anything that says we cannot or that 381 00:17:04,720 --> 00:17:07,760 it's illegal if we did so I'm going on 382 00:17:07,760 --> 00:17:10,880 those two those two premises um I think 383 00:17:10,880 --> 00:17:14,240 we're in a very unique situation here um 384 00:17:14,240 --> 00:17:16,319 the thing that struck me is there was no 385 00:17:16,319 --> 00:17:19,280 letter complaints. This all came about 386 00:17:19,280 --> 00:17:22,160 because of a comment in the staff 387 00:17:22,160 --> 00:17:24,400 meeting. Had that meeting ever taken 388 00:17:24,400 --> 00:17:26,079 place, we don't know what would have 389 00:17:26,079 --> 00:17:28,640 happened. So, no resident complaint. The 390 00:17:28,640 --> 00:17:30,480 only correspondence I saw from the 391 00:17:30,480 --> 00:17:33,120 police was for the large truck festival, 392 00:17:33,120 --> 00:17:35,280 which I can understand, but not to date 393 00:17:35,280 --> 00:17:37,520 with the current 394 00:17:37,520 --> 00:17:39,440 um 395 00:17:39,440 --> 00:17:42,320 so unaware of any of Butters. I don't to 396 00:17:42,320 --> 00:17:44,240 date I don't think any of Butters have 397 00:17:44,240 --> 00:17:49,039 um complained the um 398 00:17:49,039 --> 00:17:52,080 it is a yes it is a residential 399 00:17:52,080 --> 00:17:55,120 recreation um conservation 400 00:17:55,120 --> 00:17:58,320 zoning but as one of the Lion members 401 00:17:58,320 --> 00:17:59,679 mentioned they're surrounded by 402 00:17:59,679 --> 00:18:01,200 commercial they're surrounded by 403 00:18:01,200 --> 00:18:04,799 business um there's one I think it's 404 00:18:04,799 --> 00:18:07,360 only one really house resident at the 405 00:18:07,360 --> 00:18:09,840 complete other end of the property where 406 00:18:09,840 --> 00:18:12,720 the food truck is 407 00:18:12,720 --> 00:18:14,480 it's the property is owned by a 408 00:18:14,480 --> 00:18:17,520 Stowbased nonprofit. And yes, they don't 409 00:18:17,520 --> 00:18:19,919 meet the strict 410 00:18:19,919 --> 00:18:22,080 definition of a nonprofit according to 411 00:18:22,080 --> 00:18:24,080 the state, 412 00:18:24,080 --> 00:18:26,240 but they're a nonprofit that does a lot 413 00:18:26,240 --> 00:18:28,960 of good. Our town is ready to explode. 414 00:18:28,960 --> 00:18:30,559 We've got masters ready to open in 415 00:18:30,559 --> 00:18:32,720 September, and we are not ready with 416 00:18:32,720 --> 00:18:36,720 services. Drove by last week. The a lot 417 00:18:36,720 --> 00:18:37,919 of the construction folks were having 418 00:18:37,919 --> 00:18:39,440 lunch. I thought it was a wonderful 419 00:18:39,440 --> 00:18:40,480 thing. 420 00:18:40,480 --> 00:18:43,840 I understand that it's not a continuous 421 00:18:43,840 --> 00:18:47,360 use. I understand that they don't meet 422 00:18:47,360 --> 00:18:50,799 the state's definition of nonprofit. 423 00:18:50,799 --> 00:18:53,760 But what I would like to see is that we 424 00:18:53,760 --> 00:18:56,400 grant a temporary use variance until the 425 00:18:56,400 --> 00:18:59,440 end of November with very for this 426 00:18:59,440 --> 00:19:01,440 specific parcel with this specific 427 00:19:01,440 --> 00:19:06,000 owner. That's it. one truck must follow 428 00:19:06,000 --> 00:19:07,520 all the rules and regulations of the 429 00:19:07,520 --> 00:19:10,160 board of health and any other building 430 00:19:10,160 --> 00:19:11,600 commission or whatever that the rules 431 00:19:11,600 --> 00:19:14,400 must be followed. To me, what this does 432 00:19:14,400 --> 00:19:16,080 is it gives the applicant a chance to 433 00:19:16,080 --> 00:19:18,320 decide do they really want to do it. It 434 00:19:18,320 --> 00:19:20,673 gives the town the boards an opportunity 435 00:19:20,673 --> 00:19:22,480 [clears throat] to see does this really 436 00:19:22,480 --> 00:19:25,360 work? And at the end of that time frame, 437 00:19:25,360 --> 00:19:28,240 the applicant to decide to come back and 438 00:19:28,240 --> 00:19:31,200 ask for be it an extension or another or 439 00:19:31,200 --> 00:19:34,880 find some other means. But I'm not in 440 00:19:34,880 --> 00:19:39,510 favor of just saying no. 441 00:19:39,520 --> 00:19:41,200 » Just to respond to one of your quick 442 00:19:41,200 --> 00:19:44,480 things, I did read the reason why we 443 00:19:44,480 --> 00:19:46,880 cannot grant a use variance at our last 444 00:19:46,880 --> 00:19:50,640 meeting and that was from Valerie. Um, 445 00:19:50,640 --> 00:19:52,320 and do you want me to pull it back up? 446 00:19:52,320 --> 00:19:55,760 >> Yes, because I read it, but I didn't get 447 00:19:55,760 --> 00:19:58,000 the feeling it would be, and I'll use 448 00:19:58,000 --> 00:20:01,440 the term illegal if we did. It might not 449 00:20:01,440 --> 00:20:05,280 be it might be frowned upon, but if it's 450 00:20:05,280 --> 00:20:08,080 not allowed in the zoning, it's not 451 00:20:08,080 --> 00:20:11,760 allowed for us to do. I don't think 452 00:20:11,760 --> 00:20:13,600 >> could I actually because I actually have 453 00:20:13,600 --> 00:20:17,520 in MGL4A section 10 it says except where 454 00:20:17,520 --> 00:20:19,840 local ordinances or bylaws shall 455 00:20:19,840 --> 00:20:22,640 expressly permit variances or use no 456 00:20:22,640 --> 00:20:25,600 variance may be authorized may authorize 457 00:20:25,600 --> 00:20:27,039 the use or activity not otherwise 458 00:20:27,039 --> 00:20:29,280 permitted in the district in which the 459 00:20:29,280 --> 00:20:33,200 land or structure is located. Um and 460 00:20:33,200 --> 00:20:34,880 then it basically unless [laughter] it 461 00:20:34,880 --> 00:20:39,520 was before 1976. So basically, 462 00:20:39,520 --> 00:20:41,600 state law says you can't do it. I I 463 00:20:41,600 --> 00:20:42,960 looked through our bylaws. I didn't see 464 00:20:42,960 --> 00:20:44,799 anywhere where it allows us to do a use 465 00:20:44,799 --> 00:20:47,679 variance. So it is actually illegal. 466 00:20:47,679 --> 00:20:52,230 >> You need to follow the rules. 467 00:20:52,240 --> 00:20:53,919 » Okay. I guess the way I'm looking at 468 00:20:53,919 --> 00:20:56,240 this is unfortunately 469 00:20:56,240 --> 00:20:59,679 >> and because they don't meet the state's 470 00:20:59,679 --> 00:21:02,559 full definition of nonprofit. Well, 471 00:21:02,559 --> 00:21:03,440 >> and why is that? 472 00:21:03,440 --> 00:21:05,600 >> Well, no, just to clarify, no, no, 473 00:21:05,600 --> 00:21:08,640 >> it's it's not that they are nonprofit. 474 00:21:08,640 --> 00:21:10,480 >> They're nonprofit, which is correct is a 475 00:21:10,480 --> 00:21:11,280 tax, 476 00:21:11,280 --> 00:21:13,679 >> but if they were this other thing to be 477 00:21:13,679 --> 00:21:14,159 exempt, 478 00:21:14,159 --> 00:21:15,919 >> the 479 00:21:15,919 --> 00:21:16,640 minute 480 00:21:16,640 --> 00:21:19,760 >> the dobermen, 481 00:21:19,760 --> 00:21:22,000 >> yeah, usually that's more that's if it's 482 00:21:22,000 --> 00:21:25,600 a religious based entity or education, 483 00:21:25,600 --> 00:21:27,039 >> childare, a few other things, right? 484 00:21:27,039 --> 00:21:28,720 Which they do not which they do not 485 00:21:28,720 --> 00:21:28,960 need. 486 00:21:28,960 --> 00:21:31,200 >> Yeah. Yeah. Unfortunately the you know 487 00:21:31,200 --> 00:21:32,480 as we're looking at this as I was 488 00:21:32,480 --> 00:21:34,080 looking so I was I was trying to figure 489 00:21:34,080 --> 00:21:37,919 out work but you know the the building 490 00:21:37,919 --> 00:21:40,240 inspector made the right decision. I 491 00:21:40,240 --> 00:21:42,720 mean he he followed the bylaws and the 492 00:21:42,720 --> 00:21:44,799 law so he made the decision that he had 493 00:21:44,799 --> 00:21:47,200 to make. We're not allowed to do a 494 00:21:47,200 --> 00:21:49,520 special permit because we're not allowed 495 00:21:49,520 --> 00:21:50,880 to do a special permit for mobile 496 00:21:50,880 --> 00:21:54,159 trucks. is not allowed in. It's not one 497 00:21:54,159 --> 00:21:56,960 of the allowable exceptions in resident 498 00:21:56,960 --> 00:21:59,440 and we can't do a var various because 499 00:21:59,440 --> 00:22:01,440 it's illegal. 500 00:22:01,440 --> 00:22:04,000 So, we don't have a choice. [laughter] 501 00:22:04,000 --> 00:22:06,320 >> I feel like I'm on the side of it's been 502 00:22:06,320 --> 00:22:07,840 non-conforming 503 00:22:07,840 --> 00:22:10,799 and it like I don't see the change. 504 00:22:10,799 --> 00:22:15,039 >> Well, I'm sorry. Go ahead. 505 00:22:15,039 --> 00:22:19,200 >> Yeah, it's got to be the same use. I mean, the 506 00:22:19,200 --> 00:22:22,480 classic example is I run a restaurant 507 00:22:22,480 --> 00:22:24,400 and I mean, the golf course is honestly 508 00:22:24,400 --> 00:22:26,080 actually the best example, you know, of 509 00:22:26,080 --> 00:22:28,799 all. It's the um we're running a golf 510 00:22:28,799 --> 00:22:30,240 course. All of a sudden, Stow's like 511 00:22:30,240 --> 00:22:32,640 it's residential. They're going, "Okay, 512 00:22:32,640 --> 00:22:36,480 but then they can keep doing it as as a as a golf course." Now, they can 513 00:22:36,480 --> 00:22:38,880 come in and make tweaks to it as a golf 514 00:22:38,880 --> 00:22:40,720 course, but if they showed up and said, 515 00:22:40,720 --> 00:22:43,760 "Well, we want to convert it to, 516 00:22:43,760 --> 00:22:46,880 >> I don't know, like 517 00:22:46,880 --> 00:22:48,720 a laser. we're going to deem as laser 518 00:22:48,720 --> 00:22:51,280 tag because it's all recreational. 519 00:22:51,280 --> 00:22:53,360 We would again this is hypothetical we 520 00:22:53,360 --> 00:22:54,799 would likely say no because we're like 521 00:22:54,799 --> 00:22:56,480 no your pre-existing continuing 522 00:22:56,480 --> 00:22:59,600 non-conforming use was as a golf course. 523 00:22:59,600 --> 00:23:01,679 Um so like the classic example you see a 524 00:23:01,679 --> 00:23:03,120 lot of times especially in New England I 525 00:23:03,120 --> 00:23:05,360 think is either like convenience stores 526 00:23:05,360 --> 00:23:06,799 or restaurants and all of a sudden 527 00:23:06,799 --> 00:23:08,000 you're like how the heck did they like 528 00:23:08,000 --> 00:23:09,600 show up in a residential neighborhood? 529 00:23:09,600 --> 00:23:11,679 It's because of the way the zoning was. 530 00:23:11,679 --> 00:23:13,360 they can keep working through there and 531 00:23:13,360 --> 00:23:15,919 make adjustments. Um, and then you 532 00:23:15,919 --> 00:23:17,840 evaluate within the special permit 533 00:23:17,840 --> 00:23:21,120 context within like selling food or a 534 00:23:21,120 --> 00:23:22,400 convenience store or whatever. 535 00:23:22,400 --> 00:23:25,679 >> I guess my question would be what what 536 00:23:25,679 --> 00:23:28,080 were you designating the property as 537 00:23:28,080 --> 00:23:31,039 before and then what did it become that 538 00:23:31,039 --> 00:23:33,919 was the change of use? 539 00:23:33,919 --> 00:23:36,480 >> Um, it was I think it was always 540 00:23:36,480 --> 00:23:38,799 residential. 541 00:23:38,799 --> 00:23:43,200 Um and so it it basically most of the 542 00:23:43,200 --> 00:23:46,159 time the property is un unused or or 543 00:23:46,159 --> 00:23:48,240 casually used I suppose is the way I'm 544 00:23:48,240 --> 00:23:50,640 looking at it. So therefore there is no 545 00:23:50,640 --> 00:23:53,039 continuous use of the property of any 546 00:23:53,039 --> 00:23:55,360 specific activity 547 00:23:55,360 --> 00:23:56,640 >> even though the history is not 548 00:23:56,640 --> 00:23:58,480 residential use. 549 00:23:58,480 --> 00:24:01,039 >> Well it's no residential it's not the 550 00:24:01,039 --> 00:24:02,720 fact that someone has a house there. 551 00:24:02,720 --> 00:24:05,520 It's it within this it's just it's 552 00:24:05,520 --> 00:24:07,120 within the circle 553 00:24:07,120 --> 00:24:08,876 >> you know. But I mean the function 554 00:24:08,876 --> 00:24:10,080 [clears throat] 555 00:24:10,080 --> 00:24:12,559 >> clarification zoning does not equal land 556 00:24:12,559 --> 00:24:13,679 use. 557 00:24:13,679 --> 00:24:14,720 >> Zoning doesn't what? 558 00:24:14,720 --> 00:24:16,240 >> Does not equal land use. 559 00:24:16,240 --> 00:24:17,279 >> Equal land use. 560 00:24:17,279 --> 00:24:19,440 >> Yeah. So you basically zoning says what 561 00:24:19,440 --> 00:24:21,760 we want to allow. Land use is how it's 562 00:24:21,760 --> 00:24:23,840 being used. So it's been zoned 563 00:24:23,840 --> 00:24:26,159 residential and the intent of the zoning 564 00:24:26,159 --> 00:24:27,679 was that that would be used 565 00:24:27,679 --> 00:24:29,279 residentially. 566 00:24:29,279 --> 00:24:32,720 But any grandfather is in existence. So 567 00:24:32,720 --> 00:24:34,799 you have to look at what exists in order 568 00:24:34,799 --> 00:24:36,640 to grandfather. 569 00:24:36,640 --> 00:24:39,760 Is the board going to consider single 570 00:24:39,760 --> 00:24:42,960 events to be the use of the land? 571 00:24:42,960 --> 00:24:44,480 >> Yeah. See, that's that's my question. 572 00:24:44,480 --> 00:24:46,080 That's my concern is that like it's the 573 00:24:46,080 --> 00:24:48,240 choppiness. I mean, putting aside the 574 00:24:48,240 --> 00:24:50,240 fact that when it comes to food trucks, 575 00:24:50,240 --> 00:24:51,360 the only time there have been food 576 00:24:51,360 --> 00:24:52,720 trucks really in the past have been for 577 00:24:52,720 --> 00:24:54,799 these special events, which I will 578 00:24:54,799 --> 00:24:56,960 acknowledge, you know, right now have 579 00:24:56,960 --> 00:24:58,400 been subject to special event permits, 580 00:24:58,400 --> 00:24:59,840 whether there were times in the past 581 00:24:59,840 --> 00:25:02,960 where, you know, the permits were pulled 582 00:25:02,960 --> 00:25:05,120 or issued because the town didn't care 583 00:25:05,120 --> 00:25:08,320 or whatever the administration was. Um, 584 00:25:08,320 --> 00:25:10,240 you know, it's not like they've been 585 00:25:10,240 --> 00:25:12,880 there on a continuing basis. there's and 586 00:25:12,880 --> 00:25:14,559 there's been various other things and 587 00:25:14,559 --> 00:25:15,760 then that we search the time where 588 00:25:15,760 --> 00:25:18,159 there's nothing you know what I mean um 589 00:25:18,159 --> 00:25:20,400 so I I that's the that's the difficulty 590 00:25:20,400 --> 00:25:22,559 that that I have you know I I 591 00:25:22,559 --> 00:25:25,919 acknowledge the fact that it has been 592 00:25:25,919 --> 00:25:29,600 there's a continuing nonuse of it in 593 00:25:29,600 --> 00:25:32,240 that uh non-residential use because no 594 00:25:32,240 --> 00:25:34,480 one's going to be living there um but 595 00:25:34,480 --> 00:25:37,919 it's it's more tied to the use of it if 596 00:25:37,919 --> 00:25:40,880 that makes sort of sense like I can't I 597 00:25:40,880 --> 00:25:43,360 you know I can't speak to I think for me 598 00:25:43,360 --> 00:25:46,400 it's the same owner. It's not like they 599 00:25:46,400 --> 00:25:49,440 dissolved any company for the use that 600 00:25:49,440 --> 00:25:53,279 they're doing. Um 601 00:25:53,279 --> 00:25:57,360 is where I kind of get it. It didn't 602 00:25:57,360 --> 00:26:00,799 >> Well, I guess the question is 603 00:26:00,799 --> 00:26:03,679 what what do you propose we do that's 604 00:26:03,679 --> 00:26:05,467 legal? 605 00:26:05,467 --> 00:26:06,240 [snorts] 606 00:26:06,240 --> 00:26:10,320 >> That's a good question. Um, and I 607 00:26:10,320 --> 00:26:14,320 because it does feel like it's at the feels like things maybe weren't done 608 00:26:14,320 --> 00:26:17,520 as official prior and then now it's like 609 00:26:17,520 --> 00:26:20,000 we're trying to bring them into official 610 00:26:20,000 --> 00:26:21,120 terms 611 00:26:21,120 --> 00:26:22,240 >> or we have to 612 00:26:22,240 --> 00:26:23,919 >> and that matter. 613 00:26:23,919 --> 00:26:26,080 >> Well, have to, right? Um, but for 614 00:26:26,080 --> 00:26:27,738 instance, if we grant the food 615 00:26:27,738 --> 00:26:29,360 [clears throat] truck 616 00:26:29,360 --> 00:26:31,520 special permit, in theory they could 617 00:26:31,520 --> 00:26:34,799 come in front of us weekly or daily and 618 00:26:34,799 --> 00:26:36,720 make the request, 619 00:26:36,720 --> 00:26:39,679 but we would not want that. 620 00:26:39,679 --> 00:26:41,120 >> That's also illegal. 621 00:26:41,120 --> 00:26:41,600 >> Is it? [laughter] 622 00:26:41,600 --> 00:26:43,200 >> Yes, it is. Because we're not allowed 623 00:26:43,200 --> 00:26:43,679 to. 624 00:26:43,679 --> 00:26:46,480 >> Oh, no. 625 00:26:46,480 --> 00:26:48,960 >> Well, yeah, exactly. 626 00:26:48,960 --> 00:26:51,360 >> So, it would be saving time, 627 00:26:51,360 --> 00:26:53,279 >> right? But we can't do we can't grant 628 00:26:53,279 --> 00:26:56,320 >> Not us. Yes. Yes. But possibly bumping 629 00:26:56,320 --> 00:26:58,720 it 630 00:26:58,720 --> 00:27:02,320 >> back. we we we we can't you know we 631 00:27:02,320 --> 00:27:04,000 don't have power to send it some other 632 00:27:04,000 --> 00:27:07,440 place you know 633 00:27:07,440 --> 00:27:11,760 >> so in the reading of everything and the 634 00:27:11,760 --> 00:27:15,990 evaluation of everything 635 00:27:16,000 --> 00:27:19,039 there's not been any 636 00:27:19,039 --> 00:27:21,679 idea as to 637 00:27:21,679 --> 00:27:25,039 call it a loophole a way we can bend it 638 00:27:25,039 --> 00:27:27,679 a way we can 639 00:27:27,679 --> 00:27:28,480 spin it 640 00:27:28,480 --> 00:27:31,520 >> it's not our job to find that loophole 641 00:27:31,520 --> 00:27:33,200 at this point because they submitted 642 00:27:33,200 --> 00:27:35,039 that application. 643 00:27:35,039 --> 00:27:36,320 >> I think the loophole would be saying 644 00:27:36,320 --> 00:27:38,240 it's non-conforming that it hasn't 645 00:27:38,240 --> 00:27:39,760 changed views. 646 00:27:39,760 --> 00:27:41,679 >> They also did not technically apply for 647 00:27:41,679 --> 00:27:44,320 a non-conforming special permit. They 648 00:27:44,320 --> 00:27:45,919 just applied for a special permit 649 00:27:45,919 --> 00:27:47,919 generally. But there is no such thing as 650 00:27:47,919 --> 00:27:49,760 a 651 00:27:49,760 --> 00:27:51,120 my understanding. 652 00:27:51,120 --> 00:27:53,039 >> Non-conforming 653 00:27:53,039 --> 00:27:54,320 section 3.9 [clears throat] 654 00:27:54,320 --> 00:27:56,880 is our non-conforming section under the 655 00:27:56,880 --> 00:27:58,880 bylaw which is about 90% of the 656 00:27:58,880 --> 00:28:00,159 applications we receive. 657 00:28:00,159 --> 00:28:02,559 >> But that's for something changing. 658 00:28:02,559 --> 00:28:05,360 >> That is for an alteration or extension 659 00:28:05,360 --> 00:28:06,799 >> of the pre-existing 660 00:28:06,799 --> 00:28:08,159 >> pre-existing but that's not for 661 00:28:08,159 --> 00:28:12,549 pre-existing. 662 00:28:12,559 --> 00:28:15,760 See, the problem is um when you're 663 00:28:15,760 --> 00:28:20,559 looking at this the um 664 00:28:20,559 --> 00:28:23,120 the first problem is [clears throat] 665 00:28:23,120 --> 00:28:25,520 food truck 666 00:28:25,520 --> 00:28:27,360 um working on that land is not a 667 00:28:27,360 --> 00:28:28,960 continuous thing. If it had been going 668 00:28:28,960 --> 00:28:32,640 on since before the the property was 669 00:28:32,640 --> 00:28:35,919 zoned residential or before food trucks 670 00:28:35,919 --> 00:28:38,159 were specifically not residential. It'd 671 00:28:38,159 --> 00:28:42,080 be one thing, but it but it's it was it 672 00:28:42,080 --> 00:28:44,720 was very occasional. I don't even know 673 00:28:44,720 --> 00:28:46,559 if it was every year. 674 00:28:46,559 --> 00:28:47,919 >> That doesn't mean they couldn't have 675 00:28:47,919 --> 00:28:49,679 come forward and asked. It would be 676 00:28:49,679 --> 00:28:50,880 similar to like shutting down a store 677 00:28:50,880 --> 00:28:52,399 because they 678 00:28:52,399 --> 00:28:54,320 >> they they've come they've come forward 679 00:28:54,320 --> 00:28:57,039 to ask and that's what we're discussing 680 00:28:57,039 --> 00:29:00,960 now is that you know does what they're 681 00:29:00,960 --> 00:29:03,679 asking for meet 682 00:29:03,679 --> 00:29:15,360 the bylaws meet the state laws um and is it something that we actually can do? And my review of all those is is 683 00:29:15,360 --> 00:29:16,960 no. There's nothing in the bylaws that 684 00:29:16,960 --> 00:29:25,440 says we we're allowed to change use or variance use. There's nothing in 685 00:29:25,440 --> 00:29:28,320 um there's nothing in the the bylaws 686 00:29:28,320 --> 00:29:30,799 that allows us to get a special permit 687 00:29:30,799 --> 00:29:32,799 for a food truck. 688 00:29:32,799 --> 00:29:35,200 Um you know the based on that you have 689 00:29:35,200 --> 00:29:36,640 to look at what the the building 690 00:29:36,640 --> 00:29:38,480 inspector did which is the third thing 691 00:29:38,480 --> 00:29:40,960 and based on those two the building 692 00:29:40,960 --> 00:29:42,559 inspector was absolutely correct in his 693 00:29:42,559 --> 00:29:45,919 decision because he had no choice. It's 694 00:29:45,919 --> 00:29:48,000 not like we want to stop them from doing 695 00:29:48,000 --> 00:29:51,039 it in fact we can't allow them to do it. 696 00:29:51,039 --> 00:29:52,559 There's also sorry 697 00:29:52,559 --> 00:29:54,640 >> I was going to say and the use has to 698 00:29:54,640 --> 00:29:58,399 specifically be what the application is 699 00:29:58,399 --> 00:30:01,120 for. In this case, it I think continues 700 00:30:01,120 --> 00:30:02,480 was 10 years, Michael. Is that what it 701 00:30:02,480 --> 00:30:02,799 was? 702 00:30:02,799 --> 00:30:04,240 >> Yeah, that's why I say that. 703 00:30:04,240 --> 00:30:06,320 >> Um, so for 10 years, they would have had 704 00:30:06,320 --> 00:30:09,600 to have some type of food truck there or 705 00:30:09,600 --> 00:30:12,720 just use it. 706 00:30:12,720 --> 00:30:14,320 >> Yeah, they would have had, as I 707 00:30:14,320 --> 00:30:16,240 understand, they would have to have a 708 00:30:16,240 --> 00:30:18,640 food truck there continuously. 709 00:30:18,640 --> 00:30:20,399 >> I mean, you could theoretically will 710 00:30:20,399 --> 00:30:20,960 say, 711 00:30:20,960 --> 00:30:22,480 >> you could probably interpret that 712 00:30:22,480 --> 00:30:24,559 reasonably being like, all right, well, 713 00:30:24,559 --> 00:30:26,080 if they're not there on the weekends, 714 00:30:26,080 --> 00:30:27,679 there was a break between one and the 715 00:30:27,679 --> 00:30:29,760 other. three week break. But at least 716 00:30:29,760 --> 00:30:31,440 someone's like, "Oh, yes, that field, 717 00:30:31,440 --> 00:30:33,120 that's where the food truck is. That's 718 00:30:33,120 --> 00:30:34,799 where that is." [clears throat] 719 00:30:34,799 --> 00:30:36,559 >> Because when I look at the the Lion's 720 00:30:36,559 --> 00:30:40,559 history going back 10 years, um you look 721 00:30:40,559 --> 00:30:43,279 at, you know, 2012 to 2019 spring and 722 00:30:43,279 --> 00:30:46,399 fall flea markets, my 723 00:30:46,399 --> 00:30:48,320 thought would be in those flea markets, 724 00:30:48,320 --> 00:30:51,120 was there some type of food sold? Now, 725 00:30:51,120 --> 00:30:53,360 food trucks have just become a newer 726 00:30:53,360 --> 00:30:56,320 thing, but was it something else? So I 727 00:30:56,320 --> 00:30:59,830 mean I look at 728 00:30:59,840 --> 00:31:01,919 » once a year is once a year continuous I 729 00:31:01,919 --> 00:31:02,799 guess is my question. 730 00:31:02,799 --> 00:31:04,720 >> No I I okay 731 00:31:04,720 --> 00:31:06,960 >> it's not you know what I mean? I mean if 732 00:31:06,960 --> 00:31:07,279 it 733 00:31:07,279 --> 00:31:08,480 >> and I'm not trying to be difficult. 734 00:31:08,480 --> 00:31:09,919 >> No no no no no. These are important 735 00:31:09,919 --> 00:31:14,480 questions to to ask. You know I think it falls into the category of is it 736 00:31:14,480 --> 00:31:16,559 reasonable for the use about like how it 737 00:31:16,559 --> 00:31:18,640 is. Like for example you could say well 738 00:31:18,640 --> 00:31:20,000 there's a restaurant right there but 739 00:31:20,000 --> 00:31:22,159 they're they're not operating you know 740 00:31:22,159 --> 00:31:23,679 two days a week. Well, yes, because 741 00:31:23,679 --> 00:31:25,120 people maybe take the weekends off or 742 00:31:25,120 --> 00:31:26,559 Monday and Tuesday they close or 743 00:31:26,559 --> 00:31:28,640 whatever, but the opera, you know, it's 744 00:31:28,640 --> 00:31:31,039 not deemed like operationally, you know, 745 00:31:31,039 --> 00:31:34,399 closed. Um, and so there's a, for what 746 00:31:34,399 --> 00:31:37,279 it's worth, there's an SJC case, uh, 747 00:31:37,279 --> 00:31:39,279 from the late '7s called Powers, Powers 748 00:31:39,279 --> 00:31:40,960 versus Building Inspectors, where they 749 00:31:40,960 --> 00:31:43,440 talk about, and it was called the Powers 750 00:31:43,440 --> 00:31:45,279 test, and they talk about whether or not 751 00:31:45,279 --> 00:31:47,519 a use will be considered to be a change 752 00:31:47,519 --> 00:31:49,919 from the protected use. 753 00:31:49,919 --> 00:31:52,320 um and it's the resulting use does not 754 00:31:52,320 --> 00:31:53,760 reflect the nature and purpose of the 755 00:31:53,760 --> 00:31:55,760 use existing when the zoning law took 756 00:31:55,760 --> 00:31:58,720 effect which made it non-conforming or 757 00:31:58,720 --> 00:32:01,120 there is a difference in the quality or 758 00:32:01,120 --> 00:32:03,440 character as well as the degree between 759 00:32:03,440 --> 00:32:05,679 the resulting use and the originally 760 00:32:05,679 --> 00:32:09,440 protected use. That factor too like 761 00:32:09,440 --> 00:32:11,519 indicates to me that like it's it's the 762 00:32:11,519 --> 00:32:13,760 specific use. It's not there's got to be 763 00:32:13,760 --> 00:32:15,919 some sort of a change. Did you go from, 764 00:32:15,919 --> 00:32:19,360 you know, uh, you know, selling widgets 765 00:32:19,360 --> 00:32:22,080 to, you know, operating a restaurant? 766 00:32:22,080 --> 00:32:23,200 You could say, oh, they're both 767 00:32:23,200 --> 00:32:24,480 commercial, but there's a there's a 768 00:32:24,480 --> 00:32:26,080 material change between how it's being 769 00:32:26,080 --> 00:32:31,039 used. So, JT, you've been quiet, not not 770 00:32:31,039 --> 00:32:32,640 to cold call. [clears throat] 771 00:32:32,640 --> 00:32:34,159 >> No. Um, I've been listening to 772 00:32:34,159 --> 00:32:37,760 everything. Um, I I've 773 00:32:37,760 --> 00:32:40,159 put an immense amount of into this as 774 00:32:40,159 --> 00:32:41,120 well. you would 775 00:32:41,120 --> 00:32:42,720 >> put an immense amount of thought into 776 00:32:42,720 --> 00:32:45,840 this as well and research. I was looking 777 00:32:45,840 --> 00:32:48,080 for president 778 00:32:48,080 --> 00:32:51,110 someplace 779 00:32:51,120 --> 00:32:52,720 and 780 00:32:52,720 --> 00:32:55,840 not just in the Commonwealth just in 781 00:32:55,840 --> 00:32:59,120 general in other areas. 782 00:32:59,120 --> 00:33:02,720 They pretty much are very consistent 783 00:33:02,720 --> 00:33:05,919 when they say you cannot go outside the 784 00:33:05,919 --> 00:33:08,880 bounds of the bylaws that you are 785 00:33:08,880 --> 00:33:10,880 presented with. 786 00:33:10,880 --> 00:33:14,710 Um 787 00:33:14,720 --> 00:33:16,320 our bylaws the way they're written right 788 00:33:16,320 --> 00:33:18,880 now it's very 789 00:33:18,880 --> 00:33:21,039 difficult 790 00:33:21,039 --> 00:33:25,679 and this is not in any way I am a huge 791 00:33:25,679 --> 00:33:29,519 Lions fan. uh for [snorts] everything 792 00:33:29,519 --> 00:33:32,080 that they've done and I was really 793 00:33:32,080 --> 00:33:34,399 looking to see if there was some sort of 794 00:33:34,399 --> 00:33:36,799 wiggle room [gasps] 795 00:33:36,799 --> 00:33:40,960 from what I've seen and researched. 796 00:33:40,960 --> 00:33:45,600 I I don't think we we're pretty 797 00:33:45,600 --> 00:33:47,840 technically pigeon here. Well, I mean, 798 00:33:47,840 --> 00:33:49,919 part of it is also like the purpose of 799 00:33:49,919 --> 00:33:52,320 what we do sort of here, you know, as 800 00:33:52,320 --> 00:33:54,399 opposed to, you know, would someone want 801 00:33:54,399 --> 00:33:58,640 to hypothetically make an application to the town to resone that land, for 802 00:33:58,640 --> 00:34:01,919 example. Um, you know, or or make, you 803 00:34:01,919 --> 00:34:03,679 know, make other, you know, make other 804 00:34:03,679 --> 00:34:06,960 type of requests. Um, I don't think it 805 00:34:06,960 --> 00:34:08,960 should be the predominant reason, but it 806 00:34:08,960 --> 00:34:12,079 is notable that at least when the town 807 00:34:12,079 --> 00:34:14,399 modified the zoning when they modified 808 00:34:14,399 --> 00:34:16,159 the zoning bylaws to allow food trucks, 809 00:34:16,159 --> 00:34:17,919 was it 24 [clears throat] or 25? 810 00:34:17,919 --> 00:34:18,960 >> 2023 811 00:34:18,960 --> 00:34:21,119 >> 23, excuse me. Um, and there was a 812 00:34:21,119 --> 00:34:22,399 conscious choice to say, "All right, 813 00:34:22,399 --> 00:34:23,679 we'll allow food trucks and they're 814 00:34:23,679 --> 00:34:26,000 going to be there right in the um the 815 00:34:26,000 --> 00:34:28,240 lower business district, right?" 816 00:34:28,240 --> 00:34:32,320 um you know um you know so you know 817 00:34:32,320 --> 00:34:34,560 that's also a pretty recent decision. 818 00:34:34,560 --> 00:34:36,159 One other thing and I appreciate the 819 00:34:36,159 --> 00:34:38,639 fact that this is hyper technical um but 820 00:34:38,639 --> 00:34:42,560 I'm a law aware so assuming uh the um 821 00:34:42,560 --> 00:34:43,760 remember there's three things going on 822 00:34:43,760 --> 00:34:45,119 here. There's a special permit there's a 823 00:34:45,119 --> 00:34:47,040 variance and there's also an appeal of 824 00:34:47,040 --> 00:34:49,760 the building commissioner's decision. 825 00:34:49,760 --> 00:34:51,440 You got 30 days I understand we talked 826 00:34:51,440 --> 00:34:53,119 about this sort of before but you got 30 827 00:34:53,119 --> 00:34:55,359 days to appeal it. 828 00:34:55,359 --> 00:34:57,839 their appeal is outside those 30 days. 829 00:34:57,839 --> 00:35:01,040 It in my opinion it would be somewhat of 830 00:35:01,040 --> 00:35:03,680 an end run around that time period. If 831 00:35:03,680 --> 00:35:05,680 you could miss the time period but then 832 00:35:05,680 --> 00:35:07,839 also still submit an application for 833 00:35:07,839 --> 00:35:09,680 special permanent or variance then at 834 00:35:09,680 --> 00:35:10,800 that point what's the point of the 835 00:35:10,800 --> 00:35:12,240 decision? What's the point of having a 836 00:35:12,240 --> 00:35:14,480 time period to appeal a decision if you 837 00:35:14,480 --> 00:35:17,520 can just submit an application instead? 838 00:35:17,520 --> 00:35:19,440 You know again it's a hyper technical 839 00:35:19,440 --> 00:35:20,960 you know point but I think it's it's 840 00:35:20,960 --> 00:35:23,760 worth making. Um, I understand that uh 841 00:35:23,760 --> 00:35:26,400 Valerie is on the line. Um, Valerie, do 842 00:35:26,400 --> 00:35:27,520 you have anything to add to the 843 00:35:27,520 --> 00:35:28,880 discussion? If you don't, don't worry 844 00:35:28,880 --> 00:35:30,160 about it. I just figured I would I 845 00:35:30,160 --> 00:35:34,390 noticed that you had joined. 846 00:35:34,400 --> 00:35:36,240 » No, I don't. I'm just just listening in 847 00:35:36,240 --> 00:35:37,760 and trying to get caught up in where you 848 00:35:37,760 --> 00:35:40,160 are in the um in the deliberation. Thank 849 00:35:40,160 --> 00:35:40,640 you. 850 00:35:40,640 --> 00:35:50,710 >> Okay, great. Um other thoughts? 851 00:35:50,720 --> 00:35:52,320 I think the easiest concern that we've 852 00:35:52,320 --> 00:35:54,640 got three separate requests. I think the 853 00:35:54,640 --> 00:35:55,920 easiest is to kind of go through them 854 00:35:55,920 --> 00:35:57,040 one by one because we're going to have 855 00:35:57,040 --> 00:35:58,640 to issue three separate decisions and 856 00:35:58,640 --> 00:36:02,640 three separate votes. Sure. Okay. So I 857 00:36:02,640 --> 00:36:04,320 unless there's an objection I believe 858 00:36:04,320 --> 00:36:06,640 the easiest is the appeal of the 859 00:36:06,640 --> 00:36:08,240 administrative the building commission's 860 00:36:08,240 --> 00:36:10,880 decision. Um if we want to take a look 861 00:36:10,880 --> 00:36:12,640 at that or at least let me open the 862 00:36:12,640 --> 00:36:13,359 floor [clears throat] if anyone's got 863 00:36:13,359 --> 00:36:15,200 any thoughts about sort of how to handle 864 00:36:15,200 --> 00:36:17,680 that one. 865 00:36:17,680 --> 00:36:19,359 pass city. 866 00:36:19,359 --> 00:36:23,520 >> Sure. So, there's three there there's three requests which means we 867 00:36:23,520 --> 00:36:25,040 need to make three we have to have three 868 00:36:25,040 --> 00:36:26,320 separate decisions, three separate 869 00:36:26,320 --> 00:36:28,000 votes. 870 00:36:28,000 --> 00:36:29,520 Uh there's a special permit, there's a 871 00:36:29,520 --> 00:36:31,520 variance and there's the building 872 00:36:31,520 --> 00:36:33,599 commissioner's decision which they 873 00:36:33,599 --> 00:36:35,119 appealed. 874 00:36:35,119 --> 00:36:39,119 Um so, um I figured easiest might be to 875 00:36:39,119 --> 00:36:41,680 sort of talk take them one by one. 876 00:36:41,680 --> 00:36:44,480 >> Are we allowed to do the special one? 877 00:36:44,480 --> 00:36:46,160 >> We have to vote on we have to vote on 878 00:36:46,160 --> 00:36:48,720 all three. Okay. So, um but that's why I 879 00:36:48,720 --> 00:36:50,320 was sort of taking the low hanging fruit 880 00:36:50,320 --> 00:36:51,920 working with the appeal to administrator 881 00:36:51,920 --> 00:36:53,760 of the building's decision. 882 00:36:53,760 --> 00:36:56,079 >> I mean, at least from what I am seeing 883 00:36:56,079 --> 00:36:59,599 as I, you know, the building made the 884 00:36:59,599 --> 00:37:01,280 right decision based on the bylaws and 885 00:37:01,280 --> 00:37:05,520 the state law. So, um I think the only 886 00:37:05,520 --> 00:37:08,240 thing we can do is is deny it. 887 00:37:08,240 --> 00:37:09,839 >> I mean, the other thing too is just from 888 00:37:09,839 --> 00:37:12,560 a kind of a basic standpoint, you got 30 889 00:37:12,560 --> 00:37:13,920 days to appeal. 890 00:37:13,920 --> 00:37:14,400 >> That's true. 891 00:37:14,400 --> 00:37:16,320 >> Their appeal was outside 30 days. I I 892 00:37:16,320 --> 00:37:18,720 don't think we've got discretion 893 00:37:18,720 --> 00:37:32,310 um to to to alter that. 894 00:37:32,320 --> 00:37:34,400 The uh the only other comment I would 895 00:37:34,400 --> 00:37:36,720 make about that is I believe you would 896 00:37:36,720 --> 00:37:40,000 actually ask the applicant directly um 897 00:37:40,000 --> 00:37:42,720 if they felt there was any 898 00:37:42,720 --> 00:37:46,079 reason in defense of the appeal. And the 899 00:37:46,079 --> 00:37:49,280 response from the applicant pack was 900 00:37:49,280 --> 00:37:53,599 uh that no that they 901 00:37:53,599 --> 00:37:56,880 didn't feel that the building inspector 902 00:37:56,880 --> 00:38:01,920 commissioner was um incorrect in issuing 903 00:38:01,920 --> 00:38:04,000 the cease and disest 904 00:38:04,000 --> 00:38:04,480 um [clears throat] 905 00:38:04,480 --> 00:38:06,320 >> and they made the comment I think in the 906 00:38:06,320 --> 00:38:08,640 previous hearing that they felt he did 907 00:38:08,640 --> 00:38:11,040 make the right decision. So 908 00:38:11,040 --> 00:38:13,200 >> right 909 00:38:13,200 --> 00:38:15,119 to go along with that. 910 00:38:15,119 --> 00:38:19,440 >> So even if we took it up 911 00:38:19,440 --> 00:38:21,040 >> beyond the 30-day 912 00:38:21,040 --> 00:38:21,680 >> Yeah. 913 00:38:21,680 --> 00:38:26,079 >> that for me weighs pretty heavily. 914 00:38:26,079 --> 00:38:26,560 >> Um 915 00:38:26,560 --> 00:38:28,160 >> I have a question. 916 00:38:28,160 --> 00:38:30,880 >> Um if it was 917 00:38:30,880 --> 00:38:35,040 say like a event and they didn't have a 918 00:38:35,040 --> 00:38:37,119 special event permit, 919 00:38:37,119 --> 00:38:40,870 >> what happens? 920 00:38:40,880 --> 00:38:43,359 Is it the same? Would it be a cease and 921 00:38:43,359 --> 00:38:46,870 desist from 922 00:38:46,880 --> 00:38:48,400 » I'm not quite sure actually who's got 923 00:38:48,400 --> 00:38:50,640 the jurisdiction for that. Not every 924 00:38:50,640 --> 00:38:53,440 event requires a special event permit. 925 00:38:53,440 --> 00:38:55,280 Um 926 00:38:55,280 --> 00:38:57,599 I don't know exactly what the protocol 927 00:38:57,599 --> 00:39:03,599 is. Um it is not a zoning issue. So I I 928 00:39:03,599 --> 00:39:07,040 don't know because it's outside my job. 929 00:39:07,040 --> 00:39:08,560 um it's strictly through the select 930 00:39:08,560 --> 00:39:11,040 board and their design. So we would have 931 00:39:11,040 --> 00:39:13,680 to look at the select board's policy for 932 00:39:13,680 --> 00:39:16,160 that information, but ultimately that's 933 00:39:16,160 --> 00:39:20,640 not part of this case. Just 934 00:39:20,640 --> 00:39:23,119 for your brain around it. 935 00:39:23,119 --> 00:39:25,359 >> Yeah. No, I mean the difficulty is that 936 00:39:25,359 --> 00:39:28,320 like you know if I don't know if you 937 00:39:28,320 --> 00:39:29,920 know one of the churches in town wanted 938 00:39:29,920 --> 00:39:33,200 to you know throw some sort of a special 939 00:39:33,200 --> 00:39:34,880 event that you know based on town policy 940 00:39:34,880 --> 00:39:36,640 would require a special event permit 941 00:39:36,640 --> 00:39:39,359 because of like traffic or police 942 00:39:39,359 --> 00:39:41,760 presence or something along that nature. 943 00:39:41,760 --> 00:39:43,920 You know cease and desist probably 944 00:39:43,920 --> 00:39:45,119 doesn't make a difference because the 945 00:39:45,119 --> 00:39:46,720 event is probably over first of all 946 00:39:46,720 --> 00:39:48,480 that's one um whether or not the town 947 00:39:48,480 --> 00:39:49,839 wanted to take some sort of an action 948 00:39:49,839 --> 00:39:51,520 against them. I don't know even if they 949 00:39:51,520 --> 00:39:53,040 even have the ability to, you know, 950 00:39:53,040 --> 00:39:57,040 issue a fine or, you know, 951 00:39:57,040 --> 00:39:58,560 make some sort of statement afterwards 952 00:39:58,560 --> 00:39:59,520 about whether or not they're allowed to 953 00:39:59,520 --> 00:40:00,800 do stuff in the f. It certainly would 954 00:40:00,800 --> 00:40:02,560 probably be taken into consideration. 955 00:40:02,560 --> 00:40:04,000 They were asked for a special permit in 956 00:40:04,000 --> 00:40:05,839 the future. Like I've definitely seen 957 00:40:05,839 --> 00:40:07,280 that before, but that's usually within 958 00:40:07,280 --> 00:40:09,119 the jurisdiction of the select board. 959 00:40:09,119 --> 00:40:11,200 Um, so it's not really we don't really 960 00:40:11,200 --> 00:40:12,240 handle something. 961 00:40:12,240 --> 00:40:14,400 >> If an event is going on that shouldn't 962 00:40:14,400 --> 00:40:16,320 be though, typically the police are 963 00:40:16,320 --> 00:40:17,760 called in to shut it down, 964 00:40:17,760 --> 00:40:20,800 >> right? Yeah. So at that point in time, 965 00:40:20,800 --> 00:40:23,599 >> right? Um and so and I think there's 966 00:40:23,599 --> 00:40:25,359 actually been food truck situations like 967 00:40:25,359 --> 00:40:27,599 that. Uh I can think of in particular 968 00:40:27,599 --> 00:40:29,200 where I think it was technically within 969 00:40:29,200 --> 00:40:31,760 a a residential zone district and the 970 00:40:31,760 --> 00:40:33,119 police had to come and basically tell 971 00:40:33,119 --> 00:40:36,000 them when to go home. So all the issues 972 00:40:36,000 --> 00:40:37,359 that that arose and that it wasn't 973 00:40:37,359 --> 00:40:40,240 allowed. So 974 00:40:40,240 --> 00:40:46,240 um any other discussion on the the um 975 00:40:46,240 --> 00:40:47,839 the appeal of the building commissioners 976 00:40:47,839 --> 00:40:49,599 decision? Let's just focus on the board 977 00:40:49,599 --> 00:40:51,839 one at a time. 978 00:40:51,839 --> 00:40:54,560 >> Anything else from staff on that? 979 00:40:54,560 --> 00:40:58,240 >> Um, no. The board, some of the members 980 00:40:58,240 --> 00:41:00,240 are familiar, but in order to grant an 981 00:41:00,240 --> 00:41:02,800 appeal, you have to find error of the 982 00:41:02,800 --> 00:41:05,440 building commissioner. So, if there's no 983 00:41:05,440 --> 00:41:07,680 error, then the board cannot grant an 984 00:41:07,680 --> 00:41:09,680 appeal. 985 00:41:09,680 --> 00:41:11,200 >> If there's no error, they cannot grant 986 00:41:11,200 --> 00:41:12,960 I'm just having a hard time hearing. 987 00:41:12,960 --> 00:41:14,720 >> The board cannot grant an appeal if 988 00:41:14,720 --> 00:41:16,800 there's no error from the building 989 00:41:16,800 --> 00:41:20,503 commissioner. 990 00:41:20,513 --> 00:41:26,550 » [clears throat] 991 00:41:26,560 --> 00:41:27,839 » I was I was sensing a [laughter] 992 00:41:27,839 --> 00:41:29,359 comment. 993 00:41:29,359 --> 00:41:30,240 So 994 00:41:30,240 --> 00:41:34,160 >> I I'm just It's that repeating part 995 00:41:34,160 --> 00:41:37,280 essentially. I'm really struggling with 996 00:41:37,280 --> 00:41:38,480 that part [clears throat] of that 997 00:41:38,480 --> 00:41:42,000 existing non-conforming. Um and then 998 00:41:42,000 --> 00:41:44,079 trying to get my brain around because I 999 00:41:44,079 --> 00:41:44,960 I'm seeing 1000 00:41:44,960 --> 00:41:46,960 >> it's not an existing non-conforming. is 1001 00:41:46,960 --> 00:41:50,720 an occasional nonconformity exist in my 1002 00:41:50,720 --> 00:41:52,640 definition existing one is one that's 1003 00:41:52,640 --> 00:41:55,920 happening maybe not daily but on such a 1004 00:41:55,920 --> 00:41:58,160 regular basis that it's it's it's 1005 00:41:58,160 --> 00:41:59,280 normal. 1006 00:41:59,280 --> 00:42:02,240 >> Okay. So it's the change in frequenc 1007 00:42:02,240 --> 00:42:04,400 it's it's it's the fact that yeah it 1008 00:42:04,400 --> 00:42:06,800 it's it's you know it's not something 1009 00:42:06,800 --> 00:42:09,359 that they in the past have intended to 1010 00:42:09,359 --> 00:42:12,800 do frequently. it's with it's either a 1011 00:42:12,800 --> 00:42:14,560 special event or it's part of a special 1012 00:42:14,560 --> 00:42:18,400 event that is um permitted whether it's 1013 00:42:18,400 --> 00:42:20,000 a special permit or otherwise by the 1014 00:42:20,000 --> 00:42:22,079 town group 1015 00:42:22,079 --> 00:42:24,720 >> and then if they had that because it 1016 00:42:24,720 --> 00:42:26,160 sounds like they've served food they've 1017 00:42:26,160 --> 00:42:28,880 had food trucks there sounds like 1018 00:42:28,880 --> 00:42:31,599 historically they didn't do special 1019 00:42:31,599 --> 00:42:34,000 permits that's a new process so they've 1020 00:42:34,000 --> 00:42:37,760 come into kind of bringing that that in 1021 00:42:37,760 --> 00:42:38,400 um [laughter] 1022 00:42:38,400 --> 00:42:40,640 I guess I feel like we're in that I mean 1023 00:42:40,640 --> 00:42:45,040 >> it's not but the thing is that um the 1024 00:42:45,040 --> 00:42:47,040 town's requirements for special permit 1025 00:42:47,040 --> 00:42:49,520 may be new but that's not really the 1026 00:42:49,520 --> 00:42:54,000 factor here. The factor is um is there a 1027 00:42:54,000 --> 00:42:56,144 history of continuous use and 1028 00:42:56,144 --> 00:42:56,960 [clears throat] however you want to 1029 00:42:56,960 --> 00:43:00,560 define continuous use. Um 1030 00:43:00,560 --> 00:43:04,240 at least my mind it's more than once or 1031 00:43:04,240 --> 00:43:06,560 maybe twice a year. 1032 00:43:06,560 --> 00:43:10,640 Um it it it really is an intentional use 1033 00:43:10,640 --> 00:43:13,839 of that property for that purpose um on 1034 00:43:13,839 --> 00:43:15,359 a regular basis. 1035 00:43:15,359 --> 00:43:16,960 >> But I think they were free to use it for 1036 00:43:16,960 --> 00:43:18,240 that purpose. 1037 00:43:18,240 --> 00:43:19,359 >> They [clears throat] were free to use it 1038 00:43:19,359 --> 00:43:20,640 for that purpose. [snorts] 1039 00:43:20,640 --> 00:43:23,359 >> No, they weren't. They just they just 1040 00:43:23,359 --> 00:43:26,000 they were um 1041 00:43:26,000 --> 00:43:26,880 >> story. 1042 00:43:26,880 --> 00:43:30,160 >> But even if hypothetically even if they 1043 00:43:30,160 --> 00:43:32,319 even if a property owner could use a 1044 00:43:32,319 --> 00:43:34,160 property, 1045 00:43:34,160 --> 00:43:36,319 you know, for a non-conforming use, the 1046 00:43:36,319 --> 00:43:41,599 fact that they didn't like that's the continuing part. It's not 1047 00:43:41,599 --> 00:43:43,520 >> I don't think I the fact that they 1048 00:43:43,520 --> 00:43:46,079 didn't hold an event to me doesn't mean 1049 00:43:46,079 --> 00:43:47,280 they weren't. 1050 00:43:47,280 --> 00:43:48,079 >> Then they're not using [clears throat] 1051 00:43:48,079 --> 00:43:48,560 it. 1052 00:43:48,560 --> 00:43:50,000 >> No, they still are. They're still 1053 00:43:50,000 --> 00:43:52,319 maintaining it. They're still there, 1054 00:43:52,319 --> 00:43:54,480 >> but they're not using like like having 1055 00:43:54,480 --> 00:43:56,240 the land and maintaining it is different 1056 00:43:56,240 --> 00:43:58,480 than than what's the use of it, you 1057 00:43:58,480 --> 00:43:58,880 know? 1058 00:43:58,880 --> 00:44:00,800 >> Well, you know, compare it to say a 1059 00:44:00,800 --> 00:44:04,720 store. Um, if you've got a store and the 1060 00:44:04,720 --> 00:44:06,800 store is just there and there's no 1061 00:44:06,800 --> 00:44:08,850 customers, it's just there. They make no 1062 00:44:08,850 --> 00:44:11,040 [clears throat] sales. Um, nobody walks 1063 00:44:11,040 --> 00:44:14,160 in the door. Um, but the business is 1064 00:44:14,160 --> 00:44:18,000 there, they keep the building, they da 1065 00:44:18,000 --> 00:44:20,640 >> I I I I would agree that is a continuing 1066 00:44:20,640 --> 00:44:21,040 use. 1067 00:44:21,040 --> 00:44:23,119 >> That is a continuing use. That is 1068 00:44:23,119 --> 00:44:26,560 >> except if it's a store in a residential 1069 00:44:26,560 --> 00:44:28,640 property and it's not used for 10 years 1070 00:44:28,640 --> 00:44:31,200 or so, they lose that right to use it as 1071 00:44:31,200 --> 00:44:32,480 a 1072 00:44:32,480 --> 00:44:34,400 >> money within 10 years. 1073 00:44:34,400 --> 00:44:36,720 >> I have an example, Maria, that I think 1074 00:44:36,720 --> 00:44:38,079 could help. 1075 00:44:38,079 --> 00:44:41,200 >> So, you have a farm, right? If you host 1076 00:44:41,200 --> 00:44:44,960 a wedding at your farm, not yours like 1077 00:44:44,960 --> 00:44:46,640 the person says, "I want to host a 1078 00:44:46,640 --> 00:44:48,880 wedding." Say, "Sure." 1079 00:44:48,880 --> 00:44:51,520 >> Does your property Does the use of your 1080 00:44:51,520 --> 00:44:53,359 property change from farm to wedding 1081 00:44:53,359 --> 00:44:55,920 venue for that one event? 1082 00:44:55,920 --> 00:44:57,680 >> I would think so. Yes. 1083 00:44:57,680 --> 00:45:00,800 >> For so 1084 00:45:00,800 --> 00:45:02,720 >> I would think I needed to come for 1085 00:45:02,720 --> 00:45:04,880 occupancy 1086 00:45:04,880 --> 00:45:06,560 dynamics 1087 00:45:06,560 --> 00:45:09,119 >> for for that purpose. We'll just say put 1088 00:45:09,119 --> 00:45:12,880 that off to the side. Is your property 1089 00:45:12,880 --> 00:45:15,920 now going to be a wedding venue or after 1090 00:45:15,920 --> 00:45:17,839 the the event it's going to continue 1091 00:45:17,839 --> 00:45:20,480 back being a farm? 1092 00:45:20,480 --> 00:45:23,670 >> Uh, 1093 00:45:23,680 --> 00:45:26,079 so one day a year it's a you host a 1094 00:45:26,079 --> 00:45:30,480 wedding and the other 364 days you're 1095 00:45:30,480 --> 00:45:31,680 farming. 1096 00:45:31,680 --> 00:45:33,760 >> So hosting a wedding on a farm is 1097 00:45:33,760 --> 00:45:37,520 farming is probably what I would say. 1098 00:45:37,520 --> 00:45:39,680 that would be an accessory use to the 1099 00:45:39,680 --> 00:45:42,560 farm. It's not the overall land use, 1100 00:45:42,560 --> 00:45:44,000 >> but that would still be different than 1101 00:45:44,000 --> 00:45:46,000 now because 1102 00:45:46,000 --> 00:45:49,760 >> but now for this example for them, they 1103 00:45:49,760 --> 00:45:52,640 had a food truck festival which was 1104 00:45:52,640 --> 00:45:54,960 we'll just say 5 days a year 1105 00:45:54,960 --> 00:45:57,520 >> for easy numbers. And then in the one 1106 00:45:57,520 --> 00:46:00,160 that they gave us or the memo that they 1107 00:46:00,160 --> 00:46:04,960 gave us, they said 52 weeks a year 1108 00:46:04,960 --> 00:46:11,040 going from five events to 52 weeks 1109 00:46:11,040 --> 00:46:14,000 is a is a jump from the [clears throat] 1110 00:46:14,000 --> 00:46:16,400 proportion of 1111 00:46:16,400 --> 00:46:18,000 >> I guess I see it as a 1112 00:46:18,000 --> 00:46:21,040 >> it would be a field for a vacant field 1113 00:46:21,040 --> 00:46:24,800 for 300 days of 360 days of the year and 1114 00:46:24,800 --> 00:46:28,000 then 5 days it as an event. 1115 00:46:28,000 --> 00:46:30,160 >> See, I don't see it as a vacant field. I 1116 00:46:30,160 --> 00:46:32,952 see it as they have the freedom to do 1117 00:46:32,952 --> 00:46:34,880 [clears throat] the events during that 1118 00:46:34,880 --> 00:46:35,680 period. 1119 00:46:35,680 --> 00:46:37,520 >> True. But they have the freedom to do 1120 00:46:37,520 --> 00:46:39,599 many different events which they have 1121 00:46:39,599 --> 00:46:42,720 done and because of that and they have 1122 00:46:42,720 --> 00:46:45,200 not done 1123 00:46:45,200 --> 00:46:48,160 the law typically says what a reasonable 1124 00:46:48,160 --> 00:46:50,240 person 1125 00:46:50,240 --> 00:46:52,000 would 1126 00:46:52,000 --> 00:46:53,680 find 1127 00:46:53,680 --> 00:46:57,750 um in a situation 1128 00:46:57,760 --> 00:47:00,400 a once a year 1129 00:47:00,400 --> 00:47:03,520 food truck festival 1130 00:47:03,520 --> 00:47:08,400 would not be deemed as a 365 day use by 1131 00:47:08,400 --> 00:47:10,800 a reasonable person. 1132 00:47:10,800 --> 00:47:14,640 And that's where the definition 1133 00:47:14,640 --> 00:47:18,079 should fall in. They've used it for many 1134 00:47:18,079 --> 00:47:20,000 different events 1135 00:47:20,000 --> 00:47:24,720 from their horse shows to carnivals 1136 00:47:24,720 --> 00:47:32,480 u to flea markets to um flower sales uh 1137 00:47:32,480 --> 00:47:34,960 and yard sales. 1138 00:47:34,960 --> 00:47:37,680 Um, 1139 00:47:37,680 --> 00:47:42,000 I would not deem any of those as 1140 00:47:42,000 --> 00:47:47,280 a continuous use because it's not over a 1141 00:47:47,280 --> 00:47:50,560 365day period. So, a reasonable person 1142 00:47:50,560 --> 00:47:52,640 would not 1143 00:47:52,640 --> 00:47:55,119 find it to be that. 1144 00:47:55,119 --> 00:47:56,720 Um, 1145 00:47:56,720 --> 00:48:00,480 that's what they're asking us to do now. 1146 00:48:00,480 --> 00:48:03,040 the food truck. And unfortunately, 1147 00:48:03,040 --> 00:48:05,200 >> well, the food truck's mobile. 1148 00:48:05,200 --> 00:48:05,760 >> Excuse me. 1149 00:48:05,760 --> 00:48:08,880 >> The food truck is mobile. It's not. 1150 00:48:08,880 --> 00:48:11,520 >> It is mobile, but it is there the vast 1151 00:48:11,520 --> 00:48:13,200 majority of the time, 1152 00:48:13,200 --> 00:48:15,520 >> right? Yeah. So, yeah, finding that 1153 00:48:15,520 --> 00:48:16,800 continuous, 1154 00:48:16,800 --> 00:48:18,560 >> right? And that would be defined as 1155 00:48:18,560 --> 00:48:24,150 continuous of the same venue. 1156 00:48:24,160 --> 00:48:27,520 and a reasonable person 1157 00:48:27,520 --> 00:48:30,720 would then say, "Oh, 1158 00:48:30,720 --> 00:48:33,680 that's where that taco food truck is 1159 00:48:33,680 --> 00:48:36,160 going to be that I can go to at 1160 00:48:36,160 --> 00:48:39,200 lunchtime and have my tacos." 1161 00:48:39,200 --> 00:48:42,480 I guess in my brain the way forward and 1162 00:48:42,480 --> 00:48:44,640 I don't know what the official way would 1163 00:48:44,640 --> 00:48:47,119 be but would be so they come about it 1164 00:48:47,119 --> 00:48:51,040 the correct direction and applied for a 1165 00:48:51,040 --> 00:48:53,200 special permit or an event permit or 1166 00:48:53,200 --> 00:48:56,720 however to the select board 1167 00:48:56,720 --> 00:48:59,680 how frequent like when would they have 1168 00:48:59,680 --> 00:49:00,720 gotten the answer no 1169 00:49:00,720 --> 00:49:02,000 >> yeah that's a question not a 1170 00:49:02,000 --> 00:49:03,359 conversation we can have because it's 1171 00:49:03,359 --> 00:49:05,040 not on our purview they would have to go 1172 00:49:05,040 --> 00:49:06,880 talk to the sl 1173 00:49:06,880 --> 00:49:08,160 >> and that's why I get confused of why 1174 00:49:08,160 --> 00:49:09,520 we're here person 1175 00:49:09,520 --> 00:49:12,720 >> because they came to us. They [laughter] 1176 00:49:12,720 --> 00:49:13,920 >> Yeah. 1177 00:49:13,920 --> 00:49:16,240 >> Special event permits have nothing to do 1178 00:49:16,240 --> 00:49:17,119 with zoning, 1179 00:49:17,119 --> 00:49:18,079 >> right? 1180 00:49:18,079 --> 00:49:21,119 >> Okay. So, special event permits are for 1181 00:49:21,119 --> 00:49:24,319 those one-off events that typically do 1182 00:49:24,319 --> 00:49:27,680 not happen at a site but have some 1183 00:49:27,680 --> 00:49:33,040 impact to a private or a public road or 1184 00:49:33,040 --> 00:49:35,280 public property. 1185 00:49:35,280 --> 00:49:37,839 So, we are not stopping them from having 1186 00:49:37,839 --> 00:49:40,240 events. They can have they could do a 1187 00:49:40,240 --> 00:49:42,240 food truck festival in the fall. They 1188 00:49:42,240 --> 00:49:44,000 could do a flower sale in spring. They 1189 00:49:44,000 --> 00:49:46,000 could do a horse show in the summer. 1190 00:49:46,000 --> 00:49:48,160 They can do all of those things still, 1191 00:49:48,160 --> 00:49:49,920 but they would need to do it as a 1192 00:49:49,920 --> 00:49:52,729 special event basis only. 1193 00:49:52,729 --> 00:49:53,920 [laughter] If they're having something 1194 00:49:53,920 --> 00:49:57,119 there every day, that's no longer 1195 00:49:57,119 --> 00:49:59,280 considered a special event. If it's 1196 00:49:59,280 --> 00:50:01,520 there most days of the year, [snorts] 1197 00:50:01,520 --> 00:50:03,440 that's not a special event. That's a 1198 00:50:03,440 --> 00:50:06,720 continued use. And it has to be that one 1199 00:50:06,720 --> 00:50:10,079 specific use. Not for the next six 1200 00:50:10,079 --> 00:50:12,400 months, every other day there's going to 1201 00:50:12,400 --> 00:50:14,319 be something on that property. It has to 1202 00:50:14,319 --> 00:50:16,480 be this is going to be on the property 1203 00:50:16,480 --> 00:50:22,390 for the next six months. 1204 00:50:22,400 --> 00:50:24,240 Again, like they talk [clears throat] 1205 00:50:24,240 --> 00:50:25,839 about whether there's a difference in 1206 00:50:25,839 --> 00:50:27,839 the quality or the character as well as 1207 00:50:27,839 --> 00:50:30,880 the degree of the press use. So I think 1208 00:50:30,880 --> 00:50:32,480 you know quality and character talks 1209 00:50:32,480 --> 00:50:35,599 about like the type that's being done. 1210 00:50:35,599 --> 00:50:37,040 It'd be an interesting question if it 1211 00:50:37,040 --> 00:50:39,200 all at all involves food sales for 1212 00:50:39,200 --> 00:50:40,960 example then I mean you know it's 1213 00:50:40,960 --> 00:50:42,960 potentially open to interpretation but I 1214 00:50:42,960 --> 00:50:44,480 think [clears throat] 1215 00:50:44,480 --> 00:50:45,680 I think it's a little more difficult 1216 00:50:45,680 --> 00:50:48,950 here. 1217 00:50:48,960 --> 00:50:52,720 So the fact that they have used it 1218 00:50:52,720 --> 00:50:55,040 some kind of use 1219 00:50:55,040 --> 00:50:58,400 for the past 1220 00:50:58,400 --> 00:51:01,040 at least 10 years doesn't matter because 1221 00:51:01,040 --> 00:51:02,880 it hasn't been a food truck for 10 1222 00:51:02,880 --> 00:51:04,720 years. 1223 00:51:04,720 --> 00:51:09,040 The PR yes the principal use 1224 00:51:09,040 --> 00:51:11,520 >> has not been for hosting food truck but 1225 00:51:11,520 --> 00:51:14,079 there's been these temporary events for 1226 00:51:14,079 --> 00:51:16,400 food truck use 1227 00:51:16,400 --> 00:51:19,520 >> the farm sorry and is that primary use 1228 00:51:19,520 --> 00:51:21,440 again so they they would have had deemed 1229 00:51:21,440 --> 00:51:24,160 the primary use of that property was to 1230 00:51:24,160 --> 00:51:26,640 have some number of food trucks for some 1231 00:51:26,640 --> 00:51:29,119 number of days a year 1232 00:51:29,119 --> 00:51:31,839 that's the only way 1233 00:51:31,839 --> 00:51:34,160 or the only that would make the 1234 00:51:34,160 --> 00:51:37,520 definition of continuous this use it 1235 00:51:37,520 --> 00:51:43,109 would be okay but since it hasn't been 1236 00:51:43,119 --> 00:51:45,520 » well actually 1237 00:51:45,520 --> 00:51:49,589 >> probably not that's that's 1238 00:51:49,599 --> 00:51:52,400 » I mean because it's still we still can't 1239 00:51:52,400 --> 00:51:55,760 change the the legal use of the property 1240 00:51:55,760 --> 00:51:57,200 and we still can't give them a special 1241 00:51:57,200 --> 00:51:58,160 permit 1242 00:51:58,160 --> 00:51:58,640 >> right 1243 00:51:58,640 --> 00:52:00,640 >> so whether it's whether it was 1244 00:52:00,640 --> 00:52:02,880 continuously used or not we'd still be 1245 00:52:02,880 --> 00:52:05,520 in the same spot 1246 00:52:05,520 --> 00:52:09,200 And the continuous use is defined by our 1247 00:52:09,200 --> 00:52:12,400 bylaw or the state definition. 1248 00:52:12,400 --> 00:52:13,280 >> It's both. 1249 00:52:13,280 --> 00:52:14,079 >> Both. 1250 00:52:14,079 --> 00:52:16,720 >> Yeah. 1251 00:52:16,720 --> 00:52:17,920 >> Reflects the use. 1252 00:52:17,920 --> 00:52:18,720 >> I'm sorry. 1253 00:52:18,720 --> 00:52:21,440 >> Our bylaw reflects the state law 1254 00:52:21,440 --> 00:52:22,400 >> 48 section six. 1255 00:52:22,400 --> 00:52:25,119 >> I think I believe it's six or five or 1256 00:52:25,119 --> 00:52:29,266 six. 1257 00:52:29,276 --> 00:52:31,349 » [clears throat] 1258 00:52:31,359 --> 00:52:33,200 » I know there's a lot of legal things 1259 00:52:33,200 --> 00:52:36,880 around the mobile dynamic there 1260 00:52:36,880 --> 00:52:39,200 with 1261 00:52:39,200 --> 00:52:43,686 which is why the food truck is such a 1262 00:52:43,686 --> 00:52:45,520 [laughter] 1263 00:52:45,520 --> 00:52:48,160 So another example of something that 1264 00:52:48,160 --> 00:52:50,880 would be like a mobile use would be um 1265 00:52:50,880 --> 00:52:53,680 the truck stop 1266 00:52:53,680 --> 00:52:56,319 where people can park their trucks 1267 00:52:56,319 --> 00:52:59,119 overnight, sleep and then move on in the 1268 00:52:59,119 --> 00:53:01,839 morning. Those vehicles are constantly 1269 00:53:01,839 --> 00:53:05,200 are coming in and out, stopping, 1270 00:53:05,200 --> 00:53:06,880 but you would still deem the use of that 1271 00:53:06,880 --> 00:53:08,880 property as a truck stop even if there's 1272 00:53:08,880 --> 00:53:13,760 not always a truck there. Correct. 1273 00:53:13,760 --> 00:53:16,079 So, [clears throat] 1274 00:53:16,079 --> 00:53:20,400 so if it has to be a spec um my head's 1275 00:53:20,400 --> 00:53:23,599 getting wrapped and unwrapped. So, if it 1276 00:53:23,599 --> 00:53:26,160 has to be a very specific use, aka a 1277 00:53:26,160 --> 00:53:28,160 food truck, 1278 00:53:28,160 --> 00:53:30,960 and if food trucks haven't been around 1279 00:53:30,960 --> 00:53:33,200 for 10 years, let's say they've only 1280 00:53:33,200 --> 00:53:35,680 been around for 5 years, 1281 00:53:35,680 --> 00:53:38,559 how can it now be continuous for 10 1282 00:53:38,559 --> 00:53:42,000 years? The So, how does that work? 1283 00:53:42,000 --> 00:53:45,440 >> I'll let Valerie, the planning director, 1284 00:53:45,440 --> 00:53:51,430 speak on this. She has her hand raised. 1285 00:53:51,440 --> 00:53:54,240 » Yeah. So, um, sorry, I'm having some bad 1286 00:53:54,240 --> 00:53:55,680 internet over here. So, if you can't 1287 00:53:55,680 --> 00:53:59,040 hear me, I apologize. Um, but one thing 1288 00:53:59,040 --> 00:54:01,839 I did want to add is, so if you're 1289 00:54:01,839 --> 00:54:03,839 living, you're living in a residential 1290 00:54:03,839 --> 00:54:06,720 neighborhood and if your neighbor 1291 00:54:06,720 --> 00:54:09,680 decides to have a food truck once a 1292 00:54:09,680 --> 00:54:11,839 season, 1293 00:54:11,839 --> 00:54:14,800 that is not a way to like to back your 1294 00:54:14,800 --> 00:54:18,480 way into a zoning exemption, right? You 1295 00:54:18,480 --> 00:54:21,359 can't you can't create a new use for 1296 00:54:21,359 --> 00:54:25,040 yourself um simply because you choose to 1297 00:54:25,040 --> 00:54:29,040 do it a few times a year or once a year, 1298 00:54:29,040 --> 00:54:31,040 right? So, if your neighbor had a food 1299 00:54:31,040 --> 00:54:33,839 truck for a wedding, that doesn't mean 1300 00:54:33,839 --> 00:54:36,079 that they are now a legal food truck 1301 00:54:36,079 --> 00:54:38,160 location. 1302 00:54:38,160 --> 00:54:41,119 And the continuous use is also related 1303 00:54:41,119 --> 00:54:46,950 to when our zoning was enacted, 1304 00:54:46,960 --> 00:54:49,280 right? I I think Michael I put that in 1305 00:54:49,280 --> 00:54:54,870 the memo as well. 1306 00:54:54,880 --> 00:54:57,200 I don't know if that's helpful at all or 1307 00:54:57,200 --> 00:54:59,680 if you can hear me. [snorts] 1308 00:54:59,680 --> 00:55:01,359 >> We can hear. 1309 00:55:01,359 --> 00:55:01,839 >> All right. 1310 00:55:01,839 --> 00:55:05,168 >> I will say for what it's worth, I would 1311 00:55:05,168 --> 00:55:06,079 [clears throat] 1312 00:55:06,079 --> 00:55:07,680 I think there is a reasonable 1313 00:55:07,680 --> 00:55:10,160 interpretation where it doesn't 1314 00:55:10,160 --> 00:55:12,880 necessarily have to be as specific as a 1315 00:55:12,880 --> 00:55:14,480 food truck. I could imagine a world that 1316 00:55:14,480 --> 00:55:17,520 way, but it would have to One could 1317 00:55:17,520 --> 00:55:19,839 argue it would have to fall under, I 1318 00:55:19,839 --> 00:55:22,559 don't know, sale of food or something 1319 00:55:22,559 --> 00:55:24,960 like that, you know. Um, you could say, 1320 00:55:24,960 --> 00:55:26,400 well, that industry didn't exist back 1321 00:55:26,400 --> 00:55:27,920 then. And [clears throat] I get that. 1322 00:55:27,920 --> 00:55:29,440 Um, 1323 00:55:29,440 --> 00:55:33,839 but, um, you know, switching from, 1324 00:55:33,839 --> 00:55:37,280 you know, landscaping to, you know, sale 1325 00:55:37,280 --> 00:55:39,920 widgets, like, you know, just even a 1326 00:55:39,920 --> 00:55:42,000 widget didn't exist two years ago, like 1327 00:55:42,000 --> 00:55:43,813 I don't think that would apply. 1328 00:55:43,813 --> 00:55:44,720 [laughter] 1329 00:55:44,720 --> 00:55:52,150 And the other dilemma 1330 00:55:52,160 --> 00:55:54,000 Oh, I know what it is. The other dilemma 1331 00:55:54,000 --> 00:55:58,960 is even if it was the same use, it 1332 00:55:58,960 --> 00:56:00,799 sounds like using it only a handful of 1333 00:56:00,799 --> 00:56:02,880 days a year does not constitute 1334 00:56:02,880 --> 00:56:05,520 continuous. That's the other dilemma. 1335 00:56:05,520 --> 00:56:07,040 >> Yeah. So while [clears throat] they 1336 00:56:07,040 --> 00:56:09,280 could have shown a food truck event for 1337 00:56:09,280 --> 00:56:11,839 the past 12 years, if it was if it was a 1338 00:56:11,839 --> 00:56:15,200 oneoff or a two off, not necessarily 1339 00:56:15,200 --> 00:56:18,720 considered continuous use. 1340 00:56:18,720 --> 00:56:21,040 At least that's the position I would 1341 00:56:21,040 --> 00:56:21,839 that [clears throat] I certainly would 1342 00:56:21,839 --> 00:56:36,230 take. 1343 00:56:36,240 --> 00:56:38,400 All right. Any other discussion? Let's 1344 00:56:38,400 --> 00:56:40,079 just focus on like I said we'll do this 1345 00:56:40,079 --> 00:56:43,680 one at a time or on the 1346 00:56:43,680 --> 00:56:46,160 building decision 1347 00:56:46,160 --> 00:56:46,880 >> on the which one 1348 00:56:46,880 --> 00:56:49,680 >> the building decision desist. 1349 00:56:49,680 --> 00:56:50,799 >> Okay. [laughter] 1350 00:56:50,799 --> 00:56:52,559 Um, 1351 00:56:52,559 --> 00:56:55,854 anything else? 1352 00:56:55,864 --> 00:56:59,270 [laughter] 1353 00:56:59,280 --> 00:57:04,319 » Decisions or hold off or on an outcome. 1354 00:57:04,319 --> 00:57:05,920 No. 1355 00:57:05,920 --> 00:57:08,880 >> Um, well, I'll entertain a motion if 1356 00:57:08,880 --> 00:57:11,920 anyone has one 1357 00:57:11,920 --> 00:57:15,839 or we can look at a draft decision and 1358 00:57:15,839 --> 00:57:17,200 entertain a motion after we take a look 1359 00:57:17,200 --> 00:57:19,599 at that. 1360 00:57:19,599 --> 00:57:22,240 What do I do? 1361 00:57:22,240 --> 00:57:22,400 I 1362 00:57:22,400 --> 00:57:24,000 >> have to make a motion. People really 1363 00:57:24,000 --> 00:57:27,520 want to look at the decision first. 1364 00:57:27,520 --> 00:57:28,880 >> As a reminder, by the way, it's always a 1365 00:57:28,880 --> 00:57:31,040 two-step process. You vote on you you 1366 00:57:31,040 --> 00:57:32,319 vote on what to do and then you actually 1367 00:57:32,319 --> 00:57:34,319 vote on the actual. 1368 00:57:34,319 --> 00:57:37,599 >> I make a motion that we deny the appeal 1369 00:57:37,599 --> 00:57:40,799 of the building inspector's decision. 1370 00:57:40,799 --> 00:57:41,680 >> Second. 1371 00:57:41,680 --> 00:57:44,400 >> We have a motion, a second. Any further 1372 00:57:44,400 --> 00:57:46,559 discussion? 1373 00:57:46,559 --> 00:57:48,559 Hearing none. All in favor of tonight 1374 00:57:48,559 --> 00:57:54,789 appeal 1375 00:57:54,799 --> 00:57:59,430 draft 1376 00:57:59,440 --> 00:58:02,240 and for what it's worth and [laughter] 1377 00:58:02,240 --> 00:58:04,640 not I don't mean to like don't feel like 1378 00:58:04,640 --> 00:58:06,720 you know even though many of our 1379 00:58:06,720 --> 00:58:08,720 decisions not you know unanimous there's 1380 00:58:08,720 --> 00:58:15,030 actually no obligation to do so disagree 1381 00:58:15,040 --> 00:58:22,230 um [clears throat] 1382 00:58:22,240 --> 00:58:24,079 draft 1383 00:58:24,079 --> 00:58:27,119 decision that's been um 1384 00:58:27,119 --> 00:58:32,720 passed down on just this issue. Um so 1385 00:58:32,720 --> 00:58:36,000 I'll open the floor for any comments or 1386 00:58:36,000 --> 00:58:48,150 edits. 1387 00:58:48,160 --> 00:58:50,559 This is so 1388 00:58:50,559 --> 00:58:55,065 That's what I got. 1389 00:58:55,075 --> 00:59:05,545 [laughter] 1390 00:59:05,555 --> 00:59:22,069 » [laughter] 1391 00:59:22,079 --> 00:59:26,319 » Top page three, section five. [laughter] 1392 00:59:26,319 --> 00:59:27,599 Letter states that the property is 1393 00:59:27,599 --> 00:59:36,986 located with the residential district. 1394 00:59:36,996 --> 01:00:02,309 » [laughter] 1395 01:00:02,319 --> 01:00:07,440 » seven. Uh should that it says um last 1396 01:00:07,440 --> 01:00:09,040 shouldn't that say uh since we're 1397 01:00:09,040 --> 01:00:10,799 talking residential should that say 1398 01:00:10,799 --> 01:00:12,960 residential district instead of 1399 01:00:12,960 --> 01:00:15,641 recreation 1400 01:00:15,641 --> 01:00:16,951 [laughter] at the end of it? 1401 01:00:16,951 --> 01:00:17,920 [clears throat] 1402 01:00:17,920 --> 01:00:41,176 Um yes should be rescue. 1403 01:00:41,186 --> 01:00:52,967 [laughter] 1404 01:00:52,977 --> 01:01:01,482 » [snorts] 1405 01:01:01,492 --> 01:01:28,470 [clears throat] 1406 01:01:28,480 --> 01:01:31,839 » from history. Number 10, special event 1407 01:01:31,839 --> 01:01:33,440 permits law for local food vendors to 1408 01:01:33,440 --> 01:01:59,122 offer the site on a temporary basis. 1409 01:01:59,132 --> 01:02:03,589 » [laughter] 1410 01:02:03,599 --> 01:02:07,647 » I would disagree with number 11. 1411 01:02:07,647 --> 01:02:09,040 [laughter] 1412 01:02:09,040 --> 01:02:12,559 I feel that they provided information 1413 01:02:12,559 --> 01:02:14,720 supporting that there was 1414 01:02:14,720 --> 01:02:17,359 >> no outside special events 1415 01:02:17,359 --> 01:02:19,920 >> right with this historical survey of 1416 01:02:19,920 --> 01:02:22,559 food. Oh, outside of special events 1417 01:02:22,559 --> 01:02:28,309 record. [laughter] 1418 01:02:28,319 --> 01:02:31,119 Oh, this historical 1419 01:02:31,119 --> 01:02:34,079 that the special events 1420 01:02:34,079 --> 01:02:37,440 went on without special event permits. 1421 01:02:37,440 --> 01:02:45,628 I just the word permit just say stuff. 1422 01:02:45,638 --> 01:02:51,030 [laughter] 1423 01:02:51,040 --> 01:02:52,799 I also don't agree with the property 1424 01:02:52,799 --> 01:03:02,003 remains vacant. 1425 01:03:02,013 --> 01:03:09,863 [laughter] 1426 01:03:09,873 --> 01:03:15,589 » [laughter] 1427 01:03:15,599 --> 01:03:17,280 » We have to be a little bit more specific 1428 01:03:17,280 --> 01:03:21,280 about Glenn cuz he was here one. 1429 01:03:21,280 --> 01:03:24,079 >> Yes. I just note that he was I'll modify 1430 01:03:24,079 --> 01:03:25,760 that as he was present during the first 1431 01:03:25,760 --> 01:03:27,520 public hearing session but was not 1432 01:03:27,520 --> 01:03:34,099 present um at the last two 1433 01:03:34,109 --> 01:03:49,164 [laughter] 1434 01:03:49,174 --> 01:03:50,400 [clears throat] 1435 01:03:50,400 --> 01:03:52,160 >> Oh it Actually, yes. 1436 01:03:52,160 --> 01:03:52,960 >> Sorry. 1437 01:03:52,960 --> 01:03:54,240 >> We'll have to redo that. 1438 01:03:54,240 --> 01:03:57,039 >> That's my apologies 1439 01:03:57,039 --> 01:03:58,559 because it's up. 1440 01:03:58,559 --> 01:04:00,400 >> Yes. 1441 01:04:00,400 --> 01:04:06,849 >> That is my 1442 01:04:06,859 --> 01:04:07,839 [laughter] 1443 01:04:07,839 --> 01:04:09,920 need to be to approve and adopt. You 1444 01:04:09,920 --> 01:04:18,639 would also need to be a roll call. 1445 01:04:18,649 --> 01:04:46,319 » [laughter] 1446 01:04:46,319 --> 01:04:55,974 >> Heat. Heat. 1447 01:04:55,984 --> 01:05:20,865 [laughter] 1448 01:05:20,875 --> 01:05:23,190 » [clears throat] 1449 01:05:23,200 --> 01:05:26,160 » and just so 1450 01:05:26,160 --> 01:05:28,720 not denying the appeal 1451 01:05:28,720 --> 01:05:32,010 would essentially be saying that 1452 01:05:32,010 --> 01:05:32,559 [clears throat] 1453 01:05:32,559 --> 01:05:35,599 it was my right to have a food truck 1454 01:05:35,599 --> 01:05:39,119 permanently parked there. 1455 01:05:39,119 --> 01:05:41,599 All right. 1456 01:05:41,599 --> 01:05:43,760 Go ahead. 1457 01:05:43,760 --> 01:05:47,349 Um 1458 01:05:47,359 --> 01:05:49,280 basically what it's saying is that the 1459 01:05:49,280 --> 01:05:51,200 build building was long in the way 1460 01:05:51,200 --> 01:05:53,599 enforce the bylaw. 1461 01:05:53,599 --> 01:05:56,079 So that not necessarily saying that it 1462 01:05:56,079 --> 01:05:59,680 was by right but that they they did well 1463 01:05:59,680 --> 01:06:02,480 that yeah but by in the bylaw that that 1464 01:06:02,480 --> 01:06:04,640 he read the bylaw and the bylaw does say 1465 01:06:04,640 --> 01:06:07,359 they inhald. It's not necessarily saying 1466 01:06:07,359 --> 01:06:11,039 that they earn the right to it by by by 1467 01:06:11,039 --> 01:06:12,640 any means. 1468 01:06:12,640 --> 01:06:15,920 >> The other side of it could be 1469 01:06:15,920 --> 01:06:17,760 could that would be 1470 01:06:17,760 --> 01:06:20,160 >> well if we if we basically we would say 1471 01:06:20,160 --> 01:06:22,640 that the decision as written by the 1472 01:06:22,640 --> 01:06:26,559 building inspector had a mistake in it. 1473 01:06:26,559 --> 01:06:29,651 Something he said was wrong. 1474 01:06:29,651 --> 01:06:31,520 [laughter] 1475 01:06:31,520 --> 01:06:33,520 >> Not to be sort of picky about it. You 1476 01:06:33,520 --> 01:06:36,000 could theoretically say we're going to 1477 01:06:36,000 --> 01:06:37,599 grant the appeal because the building 1478 01:06:37,599 --> 01:06:38,799 there was an error in the building 1479 01:06:38,799 --> 01:06:40,960 commissioner decision that doesn't 1480 01:06:40,960 --> 01:06:43,200 actually go to the ultimate issue. You 1481 01:06:43,200 --> 01:06:44,880 know what I mean? Like what happens if I 1482 01:06:44,880 --> 01:06:47,760 don't know he exhibited bias or he 1483 01:06:47,760 --> 01:06:49,839 didn't even investigate it or he issued 1484 01:06:49,839 --> 01:06:52,000 it and actually I can tell you in one 1485 01:06:52,000 --> 01:06:54,319 instance I remember there was an appeal 1486 01:06:54,319 --> 01:06:55,920 and we didn't think he actually properly 1487 01:06:55,920 --> 01:06:58,079 explained it well and we ended up like 1488 01:06:58,079 --> 01:06:59,680 remanding it back to him and say 1489 01:06:59,680 --> 01:07:02,319 basically do it again. Um, I know we've 1490 01:07:02,319 --> 01:07:04,079 done that before. So, you know, the 1491 01:07:04,079 --> 01:07:05,839 question is just like, was there an 1492 01:07:05,839 --> 01:07:08,000 error such that we should throw the CC 1493 01:07:08,000 --> 01:07:10,960 synthesis letter out? You know, it could 1494 01:07:10,960 --> 01:07:13,536 be a procedural error. It could be, you 1495 01:07:13,536 --> 01:07:14,480 [clears throat] know, it could be the 1496 01:07:14,480 --> 01:07:16,799 fact that he misinterpreted the bylaws. 1497 01:07:16,799 --> 01:07:18,960 So, just for what it's worth, that would 1498 01:07:18,960 --> 01:07:23,039 be the basis for for um 1499 01:07:23,039 --> 01:07:25,359 granting the appeal, that there's some 1500 01:07:25,359 --> 01:07:27,200 error with the decision and therefore it 1501 01:07:27,200 --> 01:07:29,680 should be tossed. which does not mean 1502 01:07:29,680 --> 01:07:31,680 that that would automatically grant them 1503 01:07:31,680 --> 01:07:33,839 the right to have a food truck there. It 1504 01:07:33,839 --> 01:07:36,400 just grants them the right to have no 1505 01:07:36,400 --> 01:07:37,520 sees. 1506 01:07:37,520 --> 01:07:39,440 >> Yeah, basically. And then they still 1507 01:07:39,440 --> 01:07:41,359 have to get they still have to go 1508 01:07:41,359 --> 01:07:43,200 forward and get something to allow them 1509 01:07:43,200 --> 01:07:44,480 to do it 1510 01:07:44,480 --> 01:07:46,559 >> or or point to something. The violence 1511 01:07:46,559 --> 01:07:47,680 says we can do it by right. 1512 01:07:47,680 --> 01:07:50,871 >> Exactly. Yeah. 1513 01:07:50,871 --> 01:07:50,960 [clears throat] 1514 01:07:50,960 --> 01:07:55,680 >> It does. I'm trying to 1515 01:07:55,680 --> 01:07:57,680 because you know he gave the cease and 1516 01:07:57,680 --> 01:08:00,400 desist letter but he also let it 1517 01:08:00,400 --> 01:08:07,829 continue in the meantime. 1518 01:08:07,839 --> 01:08:10,079 » Okay. Go ahead. I know what you say. 1519 01:08:10,079 --> 01:08:13,119 >> So there are times when if there is an 1520 01:08:13,119 --> 01:08:15,200 active appeal there will be no action 1521 01:08:15,200 --> 01:08:16,880 taken by the building commissioner until 1522 01:08:16,880 --> 01:08:19,759 the board renders a decision. 1523 01:08:19,759 --> 01:08:22,960 Is that the point? 1524 01:08:22,960 --> 01:08:25,359 So it was first to cease and desist and 1525 01:08:25,359 --> 01:08:28,560 then when they appealed that 1526 01:08:28,560 --> 01:08:30,480 >> he said that you don't need to that the 1527 01:08:30,480 --> 01:08:32,560 food truck needed to go. 1528 01:08:32,560 --> 01:08:35,679 >> So yeah, so he's told them the food 1529 01:08:35,679 --> 01:08:37,920 truck needs to go. Then the appeal 1530 01:08:37,920 --> 01:08:41,120 period for that decision began. At the 1531 01:08:41,120 --> 01:08:44,640 end of the appeal period, he can begin 1532 01:08:44,640 --> 01:08:51,510 issuing fines if no action is taken. 1533 01:08:51,520 --> 01:08:56,000 it sometimes it generally gets paused if 1534 01:08:56,000 --> 01:08:58,960 something is brought to the ZA because 1535 01:08:58,960 --> 01:09:01,520 asking for fines every day for something 1536 01:09:01,520 --> 01:09:04,560 where he could have been wrong is not 1537 01:09:04,560 --> 01:09:07,279 the most appropriate. 1538 01:09:07,279 --> 01:09:10,880 So it's operating now because he's not 1539 01:09:10,880 --> 01:09:12,960 going to enforce the decision until this 1540 01:09:12,960 --> 01:09:15,440 board renders decision. 1541 01:09:15,440 --> 01:09:17,600 Once this board does render a decision, 1542 01:09:17,600 --> 01:09:19,839 whatever it is, he'll have to enforce 1543 01:09:19,839 --> 01:09:22,080 that. 1544 01:09:22,080 --> 01:09:23,839 >> Well, actually, technically, he could 1545 01:09:23,839 --> 01:09:26,640 wait because they could appeal. 1546 01:09:26,640 --> 01:09:27,839 >> They could. Yes, 1547 01:09:27,839 --> 01:09:29,920 >> they could take a They could take 1548 01:09:29,920 --> 01:09:31,839 another appeal if they wanted to to for 1549 01:09:31,839 --> 01:09:33,440 example 1550 01:09:33,440 --> 01:09:38,870 cause it again. 1551 01:09:38,880 --> 01:09:40,880 » Does that make sense? 1552 01:09:40,880 --> 01:09:44,159 >> Yeah. I'm still still struggling. Yeah, 1553 01:09:44,159 --> 01:09:46,560 >> that's okay. 1554 01:09:46,560 --> 01:09:50,719 Um any other um edits, 1555 01:09:50,719 --> 01:09:54,668 questions, issues? I think that 1556 01:09:54,668 --> 01:09:55,840 [laughter] 1557 01:09:55,840 --> 01:09:59,520 um because I messed up procedurally, uh 1558 01:09:59,520 --> 01:10:08,640 I need a new motion to vote again um on first and not the written decision, 1559 01:10:08,640 --> 01:10:10,388 the 1560 01:10:10,388 --> 01:10:11,199 [clears throat] actions you [laughter] 1561 01:10:11,199 --> 01:10:11,840 take. 1562 01:10:11,840 --> 01:10:15,920 >> Okay. I make a motion to deny the appeal 1563 01:10:15,920 --> 01:10:18,320 of the building as specialist decision. 1564 01:10:18,320 --> 01:10:20,719 >> Okay, we have a motion second. We have a 1565 01:10:20,719 --> 01:10:23,199 second. Any discussion? All right, we'll 1566 01:10:23,199 --> 01:10:25,760 take this by call. Uh Deb, 1567 01:10:25,760 --> 01:10:26,800 >> hi 1568 01:10:26,800 --> 01:10:27,440 >> JT. 1569 01:10:27,440 --> 01:10:28,880 >> Hi Maria. 1570 01:10:28,880 --> 01:10:31,280 >> Hi. 1571 01:10:31,280 --> 01:10:35,430 >> I'll vote you as well. 1572 01:10:35,440 --> 01:10:37,520 » Um 1573 01:10:37,520 --> 01:10:40,159 okay. Unless there's any other edits, 1574 01:10:40,159 --> 01:10:43,120 um on the written decision, uh I'll make 1575 01:10:43,120 --> 01:10:45,280 a a motion on that. 1576 01:10:45,280 --> 01:10:48,320 >> I'll make a motion to to accept the 1577 01:10:48,320 --> 01:10:51,360 decision as amended. 1578 01:10:51,360 --> 01:10:52,159 >> Have a motion. 1579 01:10:52,159 --> 01:10:52,960 >> Second. 1580 01:10:52,960 --> 01:10:55,040 >> A second. Any discussion or further 1581 01:10:55,040 --> 01:10:56,800 edits or questions or concerns about the 1582 01:10:56,800 --> 01:10:59,760 written decision 1583 01:10:59,760 --> 01:11:01,280 hearing? None. I'll take this also by 1584 01:11:01,280 --> 01:11:02,320 roll call vote. 1585 01:11:02,320 --> 01:11:04,560 >> Debingly I 1586 01:11:04,560 --> 01:11:08,870 >> JT I 1587 01:11:08,880 --> 01:11:13,040 and the chairman. [snorts] All right. Um 1588 01:11:13,040 --> 01:11:16,960 so that decision is um [laughter] 1589 01:11:16,960 --> 01:11:20,000 that decision is done. Um, 1590 01:11:20,000 --> 01:11:24,000 all right. Moving on to the I think 1591 01:11:24,000 --> 01:11:27,440 we'll do the special permit next. Okay. 1592 01:11:27,440 --> 01:11:28,080 Um, 1593 01:11:28,080 --> 01:11:30,320 >> so with regards to that mentioned 1594 01:11:30,320 --> 01:11:33,120 planning board, I'm trying to figure 1595 01:11:33,120 --> 01:11:37,350 what the way forward. 1596 01:11:37,360 --> 01:11:43,389 Um, 1597 01:11:43,399 --> 01:11:46,664 [clears throat] 1598 01:11:46,674 --> 01:12:02,229 » [laughter] 1599 01:12:02,239 --> 01:12:05,920 » figure out how they can make this 1600 01:12:05,920 --> 01:12:09,280 or let's see. Yeah. 1601 01:12:09,280 --> 01:12:12,950 Um 1602 01:12:12,960 --> 01:12:16,150 she by the plan for 1603 01:12:16,150 --> 01:12:17,199 [laughter] 1604 01:12:17,199 --> 01:12:19,840 I mean did have to talk to the plan. 1605 01:12:19,840 --> 01:12:21,040 >> Yeah. 1606 01:12:21,040 --> 01:12:23,360 >> That's not something we can get involved 1607 01:12:23,360 --> 01:12:25,920 >> and I guess I'm trying to to flush out. 1608 01:12:25,920 --> 01:12:29,520 Exactly. So as we're looking at this 1609 01:12:29,520 --> 01:12:32,320 so this is this a special permit saying 1610 01:12:32,320 --> 01:12:33,280 they're not too 1611 01:12:33,280 --> 01:12:34,159 >> Oh the next one. 1612 01:12:34,159 --> 01:12:34,480 >> Yes. 1613 01:12:34,480 --> 01:12:36,480 Yeah. Yeah. So, as part of their 1614 01:12:36,480 --> 01:12:38,000 application, they requested a special 1615 01:12:38,000 --> 01:12:40,719 permit under our bylaws. Um, and that's 1616 01:12:40,719 --> 01:12:42,400 where it's the whole pre-existing 1617 01:12:42,400 --> 01:12:44,159 non-conforming 1618 01:12:44,159 --> 01:12:46,719 uh use issue. 1619 01:12:46,719 --> 01:12:49,040 >> And the 1620 01:12:49,040 --> 01:12:51,360 and we can or cannot grant special 1621 01:12:51,360 --> 01:12:52,880 permits. [snorts] 1622 01:12:52,880 --> 01:12:54,800 >> We could, but we grant special permits 1623 01:12:54,800 --> 01:12:56,800 all the time. Typically, the special 1624 01:12:56,800 --> 01:12:58,960 permits we grant involve pre-existing 1625 01:12:58,960 --> 01:13:01,840 non-conforming structures. um you know 1626 01:13:01,840 --> 01:13:04,800 where a house was built 1627 01:13:04,800 --> 01:13:07,520 you know 10 ft from the you know from 1628 01:13:07,520 --> 01:13:09,920 the setback or 10 ft into the setback 1629 01:13:09,920 --> 01:13:11,920 you know it's been there for 40 years or 1630 01:13:11,920 --> 01:13:13,840 whatever it might be and they want to 1631 01:13:13,840 --> 01:13:15,760 increase it by another two feet and then 1632 01:13:15,760 --> 01:13:17,600 we evaluate you know how is it within 1633 01:13:17,600 --> 01:13:21,360 the neighborhood does it 1634 01:13:21,360 --> 01:13:23,120 with all the factors um but that's how 1635 01:13:23,120 --> 01:13:25,440 we how we typically do the tens of more 1636 01:13:25,440 --> 01:13:28,080 structures in the property itself and 1637 01:13:28,080 --> 01:13:30,800 the reality is is that was it like I 1638 01:13:30,800 --> 01:13:32,080 can't remember the percentage of 1639 01:13:32,080 --> 01:13:33,840 pre-existing non-conforming lots we have 1640 01:13:33,840 --> 01:13:38,560 in the town is every single basage and 1641 01:13:38,560 --> 01:13:41,920 things like that. So 1642 01:13:41,920 --> 01:13:44,560 specifically for food trucks, the plan 1643 01:13:44,560 --> 01:13:46,960 board is the only organization that can 1644 01:13:46,960 --> 01:13:50,719 issue a special permit but only only in 1645 01:13:50,719 --> 01:13:52,159 lower village. 1646 01:13:52,159 --> 01:13:55,520 >> Okay. So, you know, if they had wanted 1647 01:13:55,520 --> 01:13:57,120 if they wanted to continue forth, they'd 1648 01:13:57,120 --> 01:13:59,679 have to 1649 01:13:59,679 --> 01:14:01,840 get a special permit for use in lower 1650 01:14:01,840 --> 01:14:06,709 village. 1651 01:14:06,719 --> 01:14:09,360 Yeah. Yeah. 1652 01:14:09,360 --> 01:14:14,390 We have no rights to it at all. Okay. 1653 01:14:14,400 --> 01:14:16,400 » Yeah. 1654 01:14:16,400 --> 01:14:18,239 Um, 1655 01:14:18,239 --> 01:14:20,159 we can 1656 01:14:20,159 --> 01:14:23,120 I'm sorry, I'm not trying uh cut things 1657 01:14:23,120 --> 01:14:25,120 off any there any other discussion 1658 01:14:25,120 --> 01:14:27,120 comments issues to bring up with respect 1659 01:14:27,120 --> 01:14:30,719 to the special permit question 1660 01:14:30,719 --> 01:14:32,480 if you want to take a look at a draft 1661 01:14:32,480 --> 01:14:34,480 decision as [clears throat] part of the 1662 01:14:34,480 --> 01:14:36,159 discussion we can definitely do that 1663 01:14:36,159 --> 01:14:38,941 very helpful Sure 1664 01:14:38,941 --> 01:14:39,120 [snorts] 1665 01:14:39,120 --> 01:14:40,880 >> sometimes it's easier to see it in 1666 01:14:40,880 --> 01:14:42,400 writing rather than conceptual because 1667 01:14:42,400 --> 01:14:43,840 then you see in writing and realize I 1668 01:14:43,840 --> 01:14:45,199 don't like the way it's it's written I 1669 01:14:45,199 --> 01:14:46,560 don't like how it feels whatever it 1670 01:14:46,560 --> 01:14:54,651 might be 1671 01:14:54,661 --> 01:15:48,070 » [laughter] 1672 01:15:48,080 --> 01:15:50,480 » for 1673 01:15:50,480 --> 01:16:10,790 this. 1674 01:16:10,800 --> 01:16:22,630 Hey, 1675 01:16:22,640 --> 01:16:25,707 let's see. 1676 01:16:25,707 --> 01:16:46,630 >> [clears throat and snorts] 1677 01:16:46,640 --> 01:16:50,080 » Page three, section three. 1678 01:16:50,080 --> 01:17:04,998 It says 10 years or more 10 years. 1679 01:17:05,008 --> 01:17:24,229 » [laughter] 1680 01:17:24,239 --> 01:17:26,880 » And number nine, [clears throat] it says 1681 01:17:26,880 --> 01:17:28,159 the applicant say the properties been 1682 01:17:28,159 --> 01:17:30,560 used special events hosting the food 1683 01:17:30,560 --> 01:17:32,800 vendors 1684 01:17:32,800 --> 01:17:34,640 that we can 1685 01:17:34,640 --> 01:17:38,880 is this document is is on the list 1686 01:17:38,880 --> 01:17:43,840 it is yes it's 2D 1687 01:17:43,840 --> 01:17:45,440 I wonder if it might be better just to 1688 01:17:45,440 --> 01:17:49,679 say yeah say for such include hosting 1689 01:17:49,679 --> 01:17:53,760 food measures and for the uses set forth 1690 01:17:53,760 --> 01:18:00,310 in the document referenced in two 1691 01:18:00,320 --> 01:18:02,159 A little bit more. 1692 01:18:02,159 --> 01:18:30,149 Thank you. 1693 01:18:30,159 --> 01:18:30,719 » [laughter] 1694 01:18:30,719 --> 01:18:32,719 >> 13. 1695 01:18:32,719 --> 01:18:35,280 Uh, if the use is not pre-existing, not 1696 01:18:35,280 --> 01:18:37,360 performing. I think if the use is not 1697 01:18:37,360 --> 01:18:40,880 pre-existing and not performing, 1698 01:18:40,880 --> 01:18:55,039 true. 1699 01:18:55,049 --> 01:19:06,310 » [laughter] 1700 01:19:06,320 --> 01:19:09,600 » So I believe this one that I don't agree 1701 01:19:09,600 --> 01:19:14,070 with. I just 1702 01:19:14,080 --> 01:19:15,920 » I believe it would be this one that I 1703 01:19:15,920 --> 01:19:18,480 don't agree with since I'm seeing it. 1704 01:19:18,480 --> 01:19:21,120 >> Okay. 1705 01:19:21,120 --> 01:19:28,390 Not as an extension per se. 1706 01:19:28,400 --> 01:19:31,920 Is there a particular line that you or 1707 01:19:31,920 --> 01:19:33,199 point that you don't agree? 1708 01:19:33,199 --> 01:19:35,120 >> Well, I think I but I mean you haven't 1709 01:19:35,120 --> 01:19:36,960 talked in specifics, but I think I would 1710 01:19:36,960 --> 01:19:39,840 lean towards granting a special. 1711 01:19:39,840 --> 01:19:42,000 >> Okay. Well, in that case, if there's 1712 01:19:42,000 --> 01:19:48,095 motion to deny, you can always go. 1713 01:19:48,105 --> 01:19:49,415 [laughter] 1714 01:19:49,415 --> 01:20:20,190 [clears throat] 1715 01:20:20,200 --> 01:20:22,165 » [laughter] 1716 01:20:22,165 --> 01:20:28,050 [clears throat] 1717 01:20:28,060 --> 01:20:46,400 [laughter] 1718 01:20:46,400 --> 01:20:48,400 >> Is this roll? 1719 01:20:48,400 --> 01:20:53,750 >> Yeah. 1720 01:20:53,760 --> 01:20:55,571 » Thank you. 1721 01:20:55,571 --> 01:21:10,625 [laughter] 1722 01:21:10,635 --> 01:21:22,416 » [laughter] 1723 01:21:22,426 --> 01:21:25,691 [snorts] 1724 01:21:25,701 --> 01:21:27,011 [laughter] 1725 01:21:27,011 --> 01:21:29,110 [clears throat] 1726 01:21:29,120 --> 01:21:30,400 » One other thing I might consider is 1727 01:21:30,400 --> 01:21:32,251 adding 11. 1728 01:21:32,251 --> 01:21:34,239 [laughter] tips because a special event 1729 01:21:34,239 --> 01:21:35,679 coming require obtaining those 1730 01:21:35,679 --> 01:21:37,040 instances. The board finds that the 1731 01:21:37,040 --> 01:21:38,480 ordinary use of the site is not for 1732 01:21:38,480 --> 01:21:41,040 hosting mobile food members. 1733 01:21:41,040 --> 01:21:45,920 One thing to consider maybe is to add 1734 01:21:45,920 --> 01:21:48,880 after the comma where it says because a 1735 01:21:48,880 --> 01:21:50,159 special event permit is required and 1736 01:21:50,159 --> 01:21:52,400 obtained in those instances that we 1737 01:21:52,400 --> 01:21:54,800 would add and there's not otherwise been 1738 01:21:54,800 --> 01:21:56,719 continuing ongoing food sales on the 1739 01:21:56,719 --> 01:21:58,400 property. 1740 01:21:58,400 --> 01:22:21,430 The board finds a decree. 1741 01:22:21,440 --> 01:22:23,679 Fther edits, thoughts, comments, 1742 01:22:23,679 --> 01:22:27,272 questions, any discussion. 1743 01:22:27,272 --> 01:22:31,270 [laughter] 1744 01:22:31,280 --> 01:22:33,167 In that case, I'll entertain a motion. 1745 01:22:33,167 --> 01:22:35,510 [laughter] 1746 01:22:35,520 --> 01:22:39,440 » I make a motion to deny the special case 1747 01:22:39,440 --> 01:22:41,679 for a [laughter] special permit. We have 1748 01:22:41,679 --> 01:22:44,400 a motion. Second, a second. Any further 1749 01:22:44,400 --> 01:22:46,400 discussion? 1750 01:22:46,400 --> 01:22:48,800 Hearing none. Oh, go ahead. 1751 01:22:48,800 --> 01:22:50,320 >> Just trying to figure out I 1752 01:22:50,320 --> 01:22:53,120 >> Yeah. That's fine. Uh hearing none. Um 1753 01:22:53,120 --> 01:22:54,480 all in favor of denying a special 1754 01:22:54,480 --> 01:22:57,590 permit. 1755 01:22:57,600 --> 01:22:59,840 All opposed. 1756 01:22:59,840 --> 01:23:02,880 So by vote 4 to one. Um the special 1757 01:23:02,880 --> 01:23:07,280 permit is denied. Um any other edits, 1758 01:23:07,280 --> 01:23:08,880 thoughts, comments, amendments to the 1759 01:23:08,880 --> 01:23:12,870 draft decision. 1760 01:23:12,880 --> 01:23:14,432 Okay. 1761 01:23:14,432 --> 01:23:16,239 [laughter] 1762 01:23:16,239 --> 01:23:19,760 Sorry. Just based on that, I would 1763 01:23:19,760 --> 01:23:23,440 recommend them just change that correct 1764 01:23:23,440 --> 01:23:27,840 um phone numbers present. Um those and 1765 01:23:27,840 --> 01:23:37,347 taking Maria off this correct 1766 01:23:37,357 --> 01:23:39,750 [laughter] 1767 01:23:39,760 --> 01:23:42,639 motion to approve the [laughter] 1768 01:23:42,639 --> 01:23:44,639 decision for the special permit as 1769 01:23:44,639 --> 01:23:47,520 amended. Started with a motion with a 1770 01:23:47,520 --> 01:23:49,840 second. Any discussion? Hearing none. 1771 01:23:49,840 --> 01:23:52,159 All in favor of adopting the written 1772 01:23:52,159 --> 01:23:55,280 decision as amended. 1773 01:23:55,280 --> 01:23:57,920 All post 1774 01:23:57,920 --> 01:24:00,282 by voter 41. That also passes. 1775 01:24:00,282 --> 01:24:01,760 [laughter] 1776 01:24:01,760 --> 01:24:04,560 All right. The last uh part of the 1777 01:24:04,560 --> 01:24:07,840 application involves the variance. Um I 1778 01:24:07,840 --> 01:24:09,520 think it might be helpful just to see it 1779 01:24:09,520 --> 01:24:11,199 on paper uh to [clears throat] aid in 1780 01:24:11,199 --> 01:24:14,080 our discussion. 1781 01:24:14,080 --> 01:24:24,508 Okay. 1782 01:24:24,518 --> 01:24:42,193 [laughter] 1783 01:24:42,203 --> 01:24:59,030 » [laughter] 1784 01:24:59,040 --> 01:25:00,320 » Um, [laughter and clears throat] 1785 01:25:00,320 --> 01:25:04,080 in the documents list correspondence 1786 01:25:04,080 --> 01:25:06,719 3D says email from police department 1787 01:25:06,719 --> 01:25:09,600 dated 13, 26. 1788 01:25:09,600 --> 01:25:14,943 signal. 1789 01:25:14,953 --> 01:25:36,559 [laughter] 1790 01:25:36,569 --> 01:25:37,360 [snorts] 1791 01:25:37,360 --> 01:25:55,554 Okay. project. 1792 01:25:55,564 --> 01:25:56,960 [snorts] 1793 01:25:56,960 --> 01:26:14,549 Tell 1794 01:26:14,559 --> 01:26:30,550 » [laughter] 1795 01:26:30,560 --> 01:26:33,840 » So just a clarification on 1796 01:26:33,840 --> 01:26:35,360 where it says except for local 1797 01:26:35,360 --> 01:26:38,000 ordinances or bylaws expressly permit 1798 01:26:38,000 --> 01:26:41,600 variance for use, ours specifically 1799 01:26:41,600 --> 01:26:44,080 ours does not 1800 01:26:44,080 --> 01:26:48,400 permit variance for use. Correct. 1801 01:26:48,400 --> 01:26:49,679 >> Ours does not express 1802 01:26:49,679 --> 01:26:56,470 >> does not okay. 1803 01:26:56,480 --> 01:27:09,430 [laughter] 1804 01:27:09,440 --> 01:27:12,000 handshakes, but 1805 01:27:12,000 --> 01:27:12,880 the hands [laughter] 1806 01:27:12,880 --> 01:27:14,480 test. 1807 01:27:14,480 --> 01:27:31,430 No, I guess 1808 01:27:31,440 --> 01:27:33,120 people reviewing any thoughts, 1809 01:27:33,120 --> 01:27:43,510 discussion, edits, comments. 1810 01:27:43,520 --> 01:27:46,320 Not exactly sure [laughter] or special 1811 01:27:46,320 --> 01:27:49,440 permit is the correct one clarifying but 1812 01:27:49,440 --> 01:27:52,400 just yeah 1813 01:27:52,400 --> 01:27:54,639 recognizing I'm not seeing it as an 1814 01:27:54,639 --> 01:27:56,800 expansion of use just as they used to 1815 01:27:56,800 --> 01:27:59,280 serve food. 1816 01:27:59,280 --> 01:28:02,320 >> Yeah, it's more the special issue. 1817 01:28:02,320 --> 01:28:08,070 >> Okay, so that's better. 1818 01:28:08,080 --> 01:28:10,495 Other 1819 01:28:10,495 --> 01:28:15,071 [laughter] 1820 01:28:15,081 --> 01:28:19,000 [clears throat] 1821 01:28:19,010 --> 01:28:35,030 [laughter] 1822 01:28:35,040 --> 01:28:41,030 questions, comments, thoughts? 1823 01:28:41,040 --> 01:28:43,360 Not 1824 01:28:43,360 --> 01:28:45,360 a motion to [laughter] 1825 01:28:45,360 --> 01:28:47,440 deny. 1826 01:28:47,440 --> 01:28:49,360 No, sorry. 1827 01:28:49,360 --> 01:28:53,360 Deny the request for 1828 01:28:53,360 --> 01:28:55,679 second. We have a motion with a second. 1829 01:28:55,679 --> 01:28:58,080 Any discussion? 1830 01:28:58,080 --> 01:29:03,910 Hearing none. All in favor? 1831 01:29:03,920 --> 01:29:06,560 All right. Any edits, comments, changes, 1832 01:29:06,560 --> 01:29:16,950 deletions restrict the draft decision. 1833 01:29:16,960 --> 01:29:20,719 » Make a motion to approve the decision as 1834 01:29:20,719 --> 01:29:22,480 amended. 1835 01:29:22,480 --> 01:29:24,960 >> Second 1836 01:29:24,960 --> 01:29:28,719 motion in a second. Any discussion? 1837 01:29:28,719 --> 01:29:30,320 Hearing none. All in favor of accepting 1838 01:29:30,320 --> 01:29:33,681 the decision as amended. 1839 01:29:33,681 --> 01:29:35,199 >> [laughter] 1840 01:29:35,199 --> 01:29:42,470 >> That motion passes. Um 1841 01:29:42,480 --> 01:29:43,040 procedure. 1842 01:29:43,040 --> 01:29:45,360 >> Yes. Procedure. Uh next steps for that. 1843 01:29:45,360 --> 01:29:47,920 >> So the next steps are um I will make the 1844 01:29:47,920 --> 01:29:49,920 edits that the board suggested to these 1845 01:29:49,920 --> 01:29:51,440 decisions 1846 01:29:51,440 --> 01:29:54,239 and I will provide you a copy of that. 1847 01:29:54,239 --> 01:29:56,880 Um once these get filed with the town 1848 01:29:56,880 --> 01:30:01,199 clerk, that's when I'll do that. Um, you 1849 01:30:01,199 --> 01:30:03,440 have the right to appeal any decision of 1850 01:30:03,440 --> 01:30:05,840 the board to land court or superior 1851 01:30:05,840 --> 01:30:08,960 court. Um, and that must be done within 1852 01:30:08,960 --> 01:30:11,199 20 days of the filing with the town 1853 01:30:11,199 --> 01:30:14,080 clerk. Um, I anticipate doing that 1854 01:30:14,080 --> 01:30:17,600 tomorrow. So, 20 days from tomorrow, 1855 01:30:17,600 --> 01:30:21,600 we'll begin the appeal period. Um, I 1856 01:30:21,600 --> 01:30:22,960 think the town clerk has stuff about 1857 01:30:22,960 --> 01:30:24,239 appeals if that's something you're 1858 01:30:24,239 --> 01:30:29,120 interested in. Um but otherwise um 1859 01:30:29,120 --> 01:30:31,360 there's no further action from this 1860 01:30:31,360 --> 01:30:34,000 board. 1861 01:30:34,000 --> 01:30:35,520 >> Nice. Thank you for Thank you for your 1862 01:30:35,520 --> 01:30:36,800 time. 1863 01:30:36,800 --> 01:30:39,120 >> Thank you. 1864 01:30:39,120 --> 01:30:42,320 >> On behalf of Mr. Alliance, we graciously 1865 01:30:42,320 --> 01:30:44,480 appreciate your time and diligence not 1866 01:30:44,480 --> 01:30:47,840 only here um but the meetings before and 1867 01:30:47,840 --> 01:30:49,840 I know there's many hours that you spent 1868 01:30:49,840 --> 01:30:52,080 that we don't see. 1869 01:30:52,080 --> 01:30:53,280 Thank you for your diligence. 1870 01:30:53,280 --> 01:30:54,560 >> Yeah. and thank you so much for your 1871 01:30:54,560 --> 01:30:56,880 time, your patience, and for the the 1872 01:30:56,880 --> 01:30:58,800 moving of the the meeting from the the 1873 01:30:58,800 --> 01:31:01,199 last time. We appreciate that, but thank 1874 01:31:01,199 --> 01:31:05,110 you so much. 1875 01:31:05,120 --> 01:31:06,480 » All right. I don't believe we have 1876 01:31:06,480 --> 01:31:08,639 anything else on the agenda for this 1877 01:31:08,639 --> 01:31:12,320 meeting. Um, can I get a preview of our 1878 01:31:12,320 --> 01:31:15,440 next meeting or anything? Um, the next 1879 01:31:15,440 --> 01:31:18,000 meeting, I think we were going to 1880 01:31:18,000 --> 01:31:20,800 discuss the recent changes to chapter 1881 01:31:20,800 --> 01:31:22,320 4A. 1882 01:31:22,320 --> 01:31:24,880 Um the planning board has discussed that 1883 01:31:24,880 --> 01:31:27,920 there is another um bill that is out 1884 01:31:27,920 --> 01:31:29,679 right now that has not yet been adopted 1885 01:31:29,679 --> 01:31:32,719 that the board might be interested in. 1886 01:31:32,719 --> 01:31:34,320 Um 1887 01:31:34,320 --> 01:31:36,480 and then 1888 01:31:36,480 --> 01:31:39,440 there are no other applications filed 1889 01:31:39,440 --> 01:31:42,880 for September. The deadline was last 1890 01:31:42,880 --> 01:31:46,000 Thursday and I did not receive anything. 1891 01:31:46,000 --> 01:31:47,840 Um there's one that might come in for 1892 01:31:47,840 --> 01:31:49,920 October, but other than that it's been 1893 01:31:49,920 --> 01:31:51,920 fairly quiet. [laughter] 1894 01:31:51,920 --> 01:31:54,800 Great. 1895 01:31:54,800 --> 01:31:57,760 >> And we're on the 1896 01:31:57,760 --> 01:32:01,120 October Oh, September September 14th. 1897 01:32:01,120 --> 01:32:07,350 >> Yeah. Yeah. 1898 01:32:07,360 --> 01:32:09,920 >> As of now. 1899 01:32:09,920 --> 01:32:12,193 >> Yes. So 1900 01:32:12,193 --> 01:32:13,503 [clears throat] 1901 01:32:13,503 --> 01:32:14,320 [laughter] 1902 01:32:14,320 --> 01:32:15,920 >> I will say for what it's worth if it is 1903 01:32:15,920 --> 01:32:17,600 a if there is a scheduling conflict if 1904 01:32:17,600 --> 01:32:19,520 that's the only item on the agenda you 1905 01:32:19,520 --> 01:32:21,760 know if it is more convenient I mean you 1906 01:32:21,760 --> 01:32:23,440 tell me otherwise but if it's also more 1907 01:32:23,440 --> 01:32:25,440 convenient to bump that back to October 1908 01:32:25,440 --> 01:32:26,960 and can't send the September meeting we 1909 01:32:26,960 --> 01:32:29,199 could theoretically do that. So just in 1910 01:32:29,199 --> 01:32:30,560 case someone has a conflict then we feel 1911 01:32:30,560 --> 01:32:32,159 too bad. 1912 01:32:32,159 --> 01:32:34,239 >> I'm okay. 1913 01:32:34,239 --> 01:32:35,360 >> Okay. 1914 01:32:35,360 --> 01:32:36,960 >> I'm also okay but I always like freeing 1915 01:32:36,960 --> 01:32:39,040 up September. [laughter] 1916 01:32:39,040 --> 01:32:40,400 >> All right. Well, Michael and I can talk 1917 01:32:40,400 --> 01:32:42,320 about it and um you know, we'll go from 1918 01:32:42,320 --> 01:32:44,239 there. So, and the other option as well 1919 01:32:44,239 --> 01:32:45,760 is that [clears throat] you know, folks 1920 01:32:45,760 --> 01:32:46,960 don't want to be in person, you know, 1921 01:32:46,960 --> 01:32:48,320 it's a discussion that could easily be 1922 01:32:48,320 --> 01:32:48,639 done. 1923 01:32:48,639 --> 01:32:52,000 >> Will that be done at six or seven? 1924 01:32:52,000 --> 01:32:53,920 >> Seven. 1925 01:32:53,920 --> 01:32:57,830 >> Yeah. 1926 01:32:57,840 --> 01:33:00,800 » Work. 1927 01:33:00,800 --> 01:33:02,239 Okay. [laughter] 1928 01:33:02,239 --> 01:33:04,239 All right. With that, nothing else on 1929 01:33:04,239 --> 01:33:06,080 the agenda. I will entertain a motion. 1930 01:33:06,080 --> 01:33:09,040 >> Make the motion to adjurnn. Second. 1931 01:33:09,040 --> 01:33:10,719 Motion second. Any discussion? Hearing 1932 01:33:10,719 --> 01:33:14,159 none. All in favor? All right. Thanks so 1933 01:33:14,159 --> 01:33:16,384 much everybody. 1934 01:33:16,384 --> 01:33:18,404 [clears throat]