[0:10] All right, being the top of the hour,
[0:12] call to order tonight's Sony Board of
[0:14] Appeals meeting, August 19th, 2026 one
[0:19] item on the agenda is a continuation of
[0:21] the public hearing uh for zero break
[0:24] road, the appeal decision, an adverse
[0:28] decision from the building commissioner
[0:29] request for variance and for special
[0:31] permit. Uh
[0:34] this is a continuation at the request of
[0:37] the applicant from last meeting as we
[0:39] were short timers. We are we have all
[0:41] five members tonight. Uh so we can uh
[0:44] get back. Um we'll do I'm expecting
[0:49] we'll probably do a truncated version of how we normally do things as we've
[0:52] already gone through everything before.
[0:54] Um, and obviously I'll leave it to the
[0:56] discretion of the members to the extent
[0:58] that they have additional questions and
[0:59] comments, but I will turn the floor over
[1:01] to you all uh for at least a few minutes
[1:03] to provide any sort of additional
[1:05] information or if there's anything that
[1:07] you wanted to respond to um that was
[1:11] brought up at the um uh the beginning of
[1:13] the public hearing or has come to light
[1:15] since uh you're welcome to do so. So
[1:17] with that, I'll turn the floor back over
[1:19] to the
[1:20] >> Hi everyone again. My name is Nick Mes,
[1:22] longtime resident here, class of 94. Um,
[1:27] I'm the president of the Stone Alliance
[1:29] Club. Right now, I'm joined by Gord
[1:31] Chava, my vice president. Um, Paul York,
[1:35] our my treasurer. Uh, Phil Belts, um,
[1:38] our board member, and Arie, one of our
[1:41] charter members. He started this club 65
[1:45] years ago. He purchased this plot of
[1:48] land that we're talking about today. So
[1:51] I thought in light of this discussion
[1:54] there was a lot of conversation about
[1:56] what was the land used before what is it
[1:59] used throughout the 50 years year
[2:01] period. We brought army as a
[2:05] as living memory of this land. Um so um we are contesting the the
[2:14] season is based off of 50 years of
[2:17] continual
[2:19] non
[2:21] conforming use of this residential lot.
[2:24] We didn't know it was residential at
[2:26] all. Um, do you have to do that?
[2:31] No. Um, I think what we'd like to do is,
[2:35] uh, continue where we left off, which
[2:38] was, I guess, about over a month ago
[2:40] now. And, um, address any further
[2:43] questions you might have.
[2:46] And, uh,
[2:47] >> would you like to tell the story? Yeah.
[2:49] short speaker.
[2:50] >> Okay. And Arie would like to speak, so
[2:53] it's okay. We'd like to let him do that
[2:56] right now. Of
[2:56] >> course, I appreciate it. Okay. The thing
[2:59] is, this land was purchased in in 78. We
[3:02] purchased a big strawberry strawberry
[3:06] field
[3:07] and and and
[3:09] at that time um let me see here. um all
[3:14] right some purchases 78 not sure the
[3:19] thing that got me is I don't know how it
[3:21] became residential but at that time it
[3:23] wasn't residential at all what what
[3:26] really gets me is that even the office
[3:28] complex across the street you know and
[3:32] you got the gas station and you got the
[3:34] liquor store and and how this land
[3:36] became residential I I don't understand
[3:38] it but um the thing is that um um I'll
[3:43] tell you what we had on the land on the
[3:45] land with many years ago. We had a car,
[3:48] we had a carnival, we had a car a horse
[3:51] show, we had a jeep um service, a jeep
[3:54] swap, uh cow swap, we had all those
[3:57] things many years ago. And then for
[4:00] years we had the spring, the fall fall
[4:03] flea market and that food trailer was
[4:05] there all the time. And and now we had
[4:08] the f festival for the last two years.
[4:11] All the money raised go to the nonprofit
[4:14] to the town [clears throat]
[4:15] and and I'm going to give you an idea of
[4:17] what we did for the town over the years.
[4:20] We did a lot of things for the town of
[4:22] Sto. We bought a fax machine to for the
[4:25] town hall years ago, a hearing m machine
[4:28] for the school years ago. Chainsaw the
[4:30] fire department. Um we bought a money to
[4:35] a boat and motor for the police
[4:36] department. This is all the fun we
[4:38] [clears throat] did with money that we
[4:39] made raising max everything on the land.
[4:43] And um and then um let me see
[4:47] [clears throat] also um we provided um
[4:51] labor for the for the town store for the
[4:54] uh laboring material for town beach. Um
[4:58] let me see another thing. Um, oh also
[5:01] when and this is long time it's late 60s
[5:05] officer fail got shot when the purity market was in stow in
[5:11] late 60s and the lions club paid their
[5:14] light bill they call the light and power
[5:16] said we paid the light bill for two
[5:18] years plus we contributed money money to them too you know this is um and right and it's right now
[5:27] today Then today it's not easy to raise
[5:30] money to contribute money. It's hard to
[5:33] raise the money and right now also we
[5:35] got two projects that we're doing in
[5:37] town here. One is the town common sign.
[5:39] I don't know if you know town common
[5:41] sign come says when they have the town
[5:43] elections and so forth
[5:45] that was a disaster. It was all falling
[5:47] apart. The club got together and we have
[5:49] members that are working on that right
[5:51] now. It's ready to be ready to go.
[5:54] >> Yep. And also the trolley station. I
[5:56] live I live in Hudson. right now. And I
[5:59] came down one day and I'm sitting in the
[6:00] light and I go, "Oh my god, I can't
[6:03] believe that trolley station. It's a
[6:04] disaster. It's it's a landmark, you
[6:07] know, and the town's not doing nothing
[6:08] with it." So we said to the club, "Look
[6:11] into it." So right now, Philip been
[6:12] looking into it, see what we can do to
[6:14] be rever,
[6:21] you know, it's it's hard to raise money
[6:24] for the town. That's it. Thank you very
[6:26] much.
[6:27] Sorry.
[6:28] >> Yeah. Thanks. Thank you.
[6:32] >> Thank you guys. Uh questions, issues to
[6:36] be raised with the applicant.
[6:39] Um
[6:47] any questions or comments from town
[6:50] staff?
[6:51] Just since the thing was submitted, um,
[6:55] you say there was like a food truck
[6:58] festival, a yard sale, in the fall,
[7:01] there was a spring yard sale, there were
[7:04] spring and fall flea markets. When those
[7:07] events were not occurring, how was the
[7:09] land being used?
[7:11] >> How was the land being used?
[7:13] >> Yes. Was it
[7:15] >> uh lots of people would come on with
[7:17] their dogs. It was used as a common
[7:20] area. trucks parked there all the time
[7:22] and go across the street to the people
[7:25] go fishing. We that that land is open to
[7:28] the public.
[7:31] >> You decided a long time ago, right,
[7:33] Arie, that you weren't going to prohibit
[7:37] people from using the land even though
[7:38] we own it.
[7:39] >> It's public use.
[7:40] >> Public use. We are fully insured if
[7:44] something, god forbid, should happen to
[7:47] somebody, you know, using the land.
[7:49] There's been weddings on that land.
[7:52] >> Yeah. And there there are lots of
[7:55] picnics that people have because it's a
[7:58] it's like a park.
[8:00] >> Yeah.
[8:00] >> It was a park before we had any parks in
[8:02] town. It was the park. There was no Hail
[8:05] School or there was Hail School back
[8:07] then, but that was about it. Right.
[8:09] That's right. There was no there was no
[8:11] snow field.
[8:13] That was the park. So, it's pretty much
[8:16] continuous use as needed.
[8:20] >> And I guess the reason I bring this up
[8:22] for for the board to consider is
[8:25] it sounds like
[8:28] there's been for instance the food truck
[8:30] festival was a temporary event and when
[8:33] that event was not occurring,
[8:36] the land for the majority of the rest of
[8:38] the time was not being used in a similar
[8:41] way. So I wouldn't I guess the board
[8:46] would need to consider
[8:49] is a food truck festival
[8:52] the use of the site because that would
[8:56] be what the appeal and the variance
[8:58] would be for in the special permit under
[9:01] 39.
[9:03] So if
[9:05] an event happens, does that change the
[9:07] land use or does that remain?
[9:11] >> Right. But just to be clear, whenever
[9:12] you guys had food truck festivals, um
[9:15] that was subject to a special event
[9:17] permit [clears throat] that select when
[9:20] >> required. Special events are only
[9:23] prevents
[9:25] aren't going back 65 years.
[9:27] >> Right. [clears throat] I think the point
[9:29] we're making is that it's never been
[9:30] used as residential. Yeah, it's
[9:33] continual nonconforming use for um for
[9:39] >> Yeah,
[9:41] I'd open up to the board for your
[9:42] consideration. I I I don't think it's
[9:44] about whether or not it's being used for
[9:46] a non-residential use. I think it's it's more specific to that. I think it's
[9:51] more whether or not the actual use has
[9:55] been continuing as opposed to well it's
[9:57] everything but a house for example or
[9:59] anything other than than residential. Uh
[10:02] and so the tricky thing here is the fact
[10:04] that we've got even if you were to I get
[10:08] the argument saying well it's not it's
[10:10] been non-residential use if you sort of
[10:12] string all the different uses together.
[10:15] Um, but in terms of, you know,
[10:20] if you look at, for example, the
[10:22] pre-existing non-conforming uses that we
[10:24] see here, like those are people who have
[10:27] had something on their property being
[10:29] used the exact same way for the last 15
[10:31] years. Um, as opposed to
[10:37] » Go ahead.
[10:38] >> Stowers is an example. Um, it has been a
[10:41] golf course since 1926.
[10:44] Um, and that was before the town adopted
[10:47] zoning and it's been used that way
[10:50] before. And
[10:53] because of that, it's considered
[10:54] pre-existing non-conforming use because
[10:57] it's maintained operating golf course
[11:00] for at the this is their 100th
[11:03] anniversary,
[11:05] >> even though all that land is tech
[11:07] >> and all of that land is within the
[11:09] presidential district.
[11:11] That's just point
[11:14] um but but if I get your point with
[11:19] the argument
[11:20] >> I have one quick question um just
[11:23] [clears throat] on the historical part
[11:24] on maintenance kind of maintaining the
[11:27] land um it always looks very maintained
[11:29] is that the typical
[11:32] >> that's that's always been the typical um
[11:36] in past years we've hired people to uh
[11:40] cut the lawn
[11:41] and it's well maintained
[11:44] uh this year.
[11:45] >> So if I if I can subject
[11:49] >> um the Toronto
[11:52] DN
[11:54] farms always cut our field because back
[11:58] years and years ago
[12:01] >> we had a real snow snowstorm
[12:04] >> we um they almost lost the greenhouse.
[12:07] If it wasn't for the Lions Club, they
[12:09] would have lost every greenhouse. And we
[12:11] went down clean the green houses off.
[12:13] And ever since then, they just went down
[12:15] cut that field every single year. Every
[12:18] single year they cut that bill.
[12:21] It's unbelievable what they did for us.
[12:23] >> I think they they only take a few bucks
[12:25] for diesel.
[12:27] >> Gas. They appreciated our contributions
[12:30] to the town and they and they um
[12:34] respected us and and in turn our fields
[12:39] for decades. Now we've taken on cutting
[12:41] in ourselves. [snorts] Well, this year
[12:44] in part of the agreement that we have
[12:47] with the food truck vendor that's there,
[12:50] he's the one who's cutting the grass for
[12:53] us in addition to giving us $400 a
[12:56] month. cuts the grass as part of his
[12:59] agreement and he's not charging us for
[13:02] the gasoline.
[13:05] I think he's done a pretty good job the
[13:07] ship.
[13:08] So that's another benefit that we get
[13:10] from having that truck there and the
[13:13] town gets I should say because it's open
[13:15] to the public. [clears throat] And
[13:16] recently we got a request from the
[13:19] constructions company to store their
[13:21] equipment and goods and consistent to
[13:26] the Lion's Way. We granted that to the
[13:29] best of the town, right? And then we
[13:32] submitted the proper paperwork to the
[13:34] town uh signed agreement with the
[13:37] contractor that we allowed use of our
[13:42] land for the contractor to park his
[13:44] vehicles and also
[13:47] >> dump stone pipes.
[13:48] >> Stone pipes things that they would use
[13:51] for public body there.
[13:53] >> Yep.
[13:54] >> We could have rejected that.
[13:57] So,
[13:59] we plan to continue to maintain that
[14:02] lawn that's spicy in
[14:08] I'll just open it up. I know there's
[14:10] nobody else here in the room uh other
[14:12] than represent the applicant, but I'll
[14:15] kind of reopen for public comment to the
[14:17] extent that there's anyone on Zoom that
[14:19] would like to make a public comment or
[14:21] question. Um, please sort of virtually
[14:24] raise your hand. Michael will unmute
[14:25] you. Um, just please state your name,
[14:28] your address.
[14:30] >> They can unmute themselves.
[14:32] I don't have that.
[14:34] >> They have that ability right now. So, if
[14:37] you're having trouble, you can unmute
[14:38] yourself. Just say, "Hey,
[14:43] » there's Dave."
[14:45] >> Yeah.
[14:47] Hello. Uh, this is David Gray. I'm also
[14:49] a member of the Lions Club and I just
[14:52] wanted to um concur with the things that
[14:55] were said there that uh there is a long
[14:58] uh long-standing
[15:01] use of that in non what I would consider
[15:04] nonconforming
[15:06] and the requirement for
[15:09] special events is really a recent thing.
[15:12] I mean, that's only since the recent
[15:14] administration has come in and things
[15:16] were held there long before that ever
[15:18] existed.
[15:21] >> Thank you.
[15:22] Mr. Mayor. Oh, just for the
[15:24] record, what's your address?
[15:26] >> I'm sorry. I'm at [clears throat] 34
[15:28] Meeting House Lane.
[15:30] >> Excellent. Thank you.
[15:36] » All right. Any other uh questions or um
[15:40] piece of information that we're looking
[15:42] for from the applicant
[15:55] [clears throat]
[16:01] is now closed. we can no longer take
[16:03] information from the applicant nor can
[16:05] we take any public comments
[16:08] um either in person or online or
[16:11] otherwise virtually. Um otherwise I'll
[16:14] um open it up to the floor for any
[16:16] discussion.
[16:18] >> Um [clears throat]
[16:19] so just to make sure I can now discuss
[16:23] what I'm thinking, feeling, what I'd
[16:25] like to do. Correct.
[16:26] >> Yes. Okay.
[16:27] >> Yes. That
[16:27] >> just because this is my f first time the
[16:29] CBA wanted just to make sure.
[16:31] >> Yeah. You know that that being said like
[16:33] any any kind of um any decision that you
[16:37] have doesn't really count until you
[16:38] actually
[16:39] >> correct. This is just my my personal
[16:40] >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. This is to be a free
[16:42] flowing discussion.
[16:43] >> Yep. So I've been doing a lot of
[16:44] thinking about this over the past few
[16:46] weeks. um and you know read all the
[16:50] information that you know we've been
[16:52] given and from what I can tell and what
[16:55] I've read is while we have not provided
[16:59] or given a use variance I haven't seen
[17:02] anything that says we cannot or that
[17:04] it's illegal if we did so I'm going on
[17:07] those two those two premises um I think
[17:10] we're in a very unique situation here um
[17:14] the thing that struck me is there was no
[17:16] letter complaints. This all came about
[17:19] because of a comment in the staff
[17:22] meeting. Had that meeting ever taken
[17:24] place, we don't know what would have
[17:26] happened. So, no resident complaint. The
[17:28] only correspondence I saw from the
[17:30] police was for the large truck festival,
[17:33] which I can understand, but not to date
[17:35] with the current
[17:37] um
[17:39] so unaware of any of Butters. I don't to
[17:42] date I don't think any of Butters have
[17:44] um complained the um
[17:49] it is a yes it is a residential
[17:52] recreation um conservation
[17:55] zoning but as one of the Lion members
[17:58] mentioned they're surrounded by
[17:59] commercial they're surrounded by
[18:01] business um there's one I think it's
[18:04] only one really house resident at the
[18:07] complete other end of the property where
[18:09] the food truck is
[18:12] it's the property is owned by a
[18:14] Stowbased nonprofit. And yes, they don't
[18:17] meet the strict
[18:19] definition of a nonprofit according to
[18:22] the state,
[18:24] but they're a nonprofit that does a lot
[18:26] of good. Our town is ready to explode.
[18:28] We've got masters ready to open in
[18:30] September, and we are not ready with
[18:32] services. Drove by last week. The a lot
[18:36] of the construction folks were having
[18:37] lunch. I thought it was a wonderful
[18:39] thing.
[18:40] I understand that it's not a continuous
[18:43] use. I understand that they don't meet
[18:47] the state's definition of nonprofit.
[18:50] But what I would like to see is that we
[18:53] grant a temporary use variance until the
[18:56] end of November with very for this
[18:59] specific parcel with this specific
[19:01] owner. That's it. one truck must follow
[19:06] all the rules and regulations of the
[19:07] board of health and any other building
[19:10] commission or whatever that the rules
[19:11] must be followed. To me, what this does
[19:14] is it gives the applicant a chance to
[19:16] decide do they really want to do it. It
[19:18] gives the town the boards an opportunity
[19:20] [clears throat] to see does this really
[19:22] work? And at the end of that time frame,
[19:25] the applicant to decide to come back and
[19:28] ask for be it an extension or another or
[19:31] find some other means. But I'm not in
[19:34] favor of just saying no.
[19:39] » Just to respond to one of your quick
[19:41] things, I did read the reason why we
[19:44] cannot grant a use variance at our last
[19:46] meeting and that was from Valerie. Um,
[19:50] and do you want me to pull it back up?
[19:52] >> Yes, because I read it, but I didn't get
[19:55] the feeling it would be, and I'll use
[19:58] the term illegal if we did. It might not
[20:01] be it might be frowned upon, but if it's
[20:05] not allowed in the zoning, it's not
[20:08] allowed for us to do. I don't think
[20:11] >> could I actually because I actually have
[20:13] in MGL4A section 10 it says except where
[20:17] local ordinances or bylaws shall
[20:19] expressly permit variances or use no
[20:22] variance may be authorized may authorize
[20:25] the use or activity not otherwise
[20:27] permitted in the district in which the
[20:29] land or structure is located. Um and
[20:33] then it basically unless [laughter] it
[20:34] was before 1976. So basically,
[20:39] state law says you can't do it. I I
[20:41] looked through our bylaws. I didn't see
[20:42] anywhere where it allows us to do a use
[20:44] variance. So it is actually illegal.
[20:47] >> You need to follow the rules.
[20:52] » Okay. I guess the way I'm looking at
[20:53] this is unfortunately
[20:56] >> and because they don't meet the state's
[20:59] full definition of nonprofit. Well,
[21:02] >> and why is that?
[21:03] >> Well, no, just to clarify, no, no,
[21:05] >> it's it's not that they are nonprofit.
[21:08] >> They're nonprofit, which is correct is a
[21:10] tax,
[21:11] >> but if they were this other thing to be
[21:13] exempt,
[21:14] >> the
[21:15] minute
[21:16] >> the dobermen,
[21:19] >> yeah, usually that's more that's if it's
[21:22] a religious based entity or education,
[21:25] >> childare, a few other things, right?
[21:27] Which they do not which they do not
[21:28] need.
[21:28] >> Yeah. Yeah. Unfortunately the you know
[21:31] as we're looking at this as I was
[21:32] looking so I was I was trying to figure
[21:34] out work but you know the the building
[21:37] inspector made the right decision. I
[21:40] mean he he followed the bylaws and the
[21:42] law so he made the decision that he had
[21:44] to make. We're not allowed to do a
[21:47] special permit because we're not allowed
[21:49] to do a special permit for mobile
[21:50] trucks. is not allowed in. It's not one
[21:54] of the allowable exceptions in resident
[21:56] and we can't do a var various because
[21:59] it's illegal.
[22:01] So, we don't have a choice. [laughter]
[22:04] >> I feel like I'm on the side of it's been
[22:06] non-conforming
[22:07] and it like I don't see the change.
[22:10] >> Well, I'm sorry. Go ahead.
[22:15] >> Yeah, it's got to be the same use. I mean, the
[22:19] classic example is I run a restaurant
[22:22] and I mean, the golf course is honestly
[22:24] actually the best example, you know, of
[22:26] all. It's the um we're running a golf
[22:28] course. All of a sudden, Stow's like
[22:30] it's residential. They're going, "Okay,
[22:32] but then they can keep doing it as as a as a golf course." Now, they can
[22:36] come in and make tweaks to it as a golf
[22:38] course, but if they showed up and said,
[22:40] "Well, we want to convert it to,
[22:43] >> I don't know, like
[22:46] a laser. we're going to deem as laser
[22:48] tag because it's all recreational.
[22:51] We would again this is hypothetical we
[22:53] would likely say no because we're like
[22:54] no your pre-existing continuing
[22:56] non-conforming use was as a golf course.
[22:59] Um so like the classic example you see a
[23:01] lot of times especially in New England I
[23:03] think is either like convenience stores
[23:05] or restaurants and all of a sudden
[23:06] you're like how the heck did they like
[23:08] show up in a residential neighborhood?
[23:09] It's because of the way the zoning was.
[23:11] they can keep working through there and
[23:13] make adjustments. Um, and then you
[23:15] evaluate within the special permit
[23:17] context within like selling food or a
[23:21] convenience store or whatever.
[23:22] >> I guess my question would be what what
[23:25] were you designating the property as
[23:28] before and then what did it become that
[23:31] was the change of use?
[23:33] >> Um, it was I think it was always
[23:36] residential.
[23:38] Um and so it it basically most of the
[23:43] time the property is un unused or or
[23:46] casually used I suppose is the way I'm
[23:48] looking at it. So therefore there is no
[23:50] continuous use of the property of any
[23:53] specific activity
[23:55] >> even though the history is not
[23:56] residential use.
[23:58] >> Well it's no residential it's not the
[24:01] fact that someone has a house there.
[24:02] It's it within this it's just it's
[24:05] within the circle
[24:07] >> you know. But I mean the function
[24:08] [clears throat]
[24:10] >> clarification zoning does not equal land
[24:12] use.
[24:13] >> Zoning doesn't what?
[24:14] >> Does not equal land use.
[24:16] >> Equal land use.
[24:17] >> Yeah. So you basically zoning says what
[24:19] we want to allow. Land use is how it's
[24:21] being used. So it's been zoned
[24:23] residential and the intent of the zoning
[24:26] was that that would be used
[24:27] residentially.
[24:29] But any grandfather is in existence. So
[24:32] you have to look at what exists in order
[24:34] to grandfather.
[24:36] Is the board going to consider single
[24:39] events to be the use of the land?
[24:42] >> Yeah. See, that's that's my question.
[24:44] That's my concern is that like it's the
[24:46] choppiness. I mean, putting aside the
[24:48] fact that when it comes to food trucks,
[24:50] the only time there have been food
[24:51] trucks really in the past have been for
[24:52] these special events, which I will
[24:54] acknowledge, you know, right now have
[24:56] been subject to special event permits,
[24:58] whether there were times in the past
[24:59] where, you know, the permits were pulled
[25:02] or issued because the town didn't care
[25:05] or whatever the administration was. Um,
[25:08] you know, it's not like they've been
[25:10] there on a continuing basis. there's and
[25:12] there's been various other things and
[25:14] then that we search the time where
[25:15] there's nothing you know what I mean um
[25:18] so I I that's the that's the difficulty
[25:20] that that I have you know I I
[25:22] acknowledge the fact that it has been
[25:25] there's a continuing nonuse of it in
[25:29] that uh non-residential use because no
[25:32] one's going to be living there um but
[25:34] it's it's more tied to the use of it if
[25:37] that makes sort of sense like I can't I
[25:40] you know I can't speak to I think for me
[25:43] it's the same owner. It's not like they
[25:46] dissolved any company for the use that
[25:49] they're doing. Um
[25:53] is where I kind of get it. It didn't
[25:57] >> Well, I guess the question is
[26:00] what what do you propose we do that's
[26:03] legal?
[26:05] [snorts]
[26:06] >> That's a good question. Um, and I
[26:10] because it does feel like it's at the feels like things maybe weren't done
[26:14] as official prior and then now it's like
[26:17] we're trying to bring them into official
[26:20] terms
[26:21] >> or we have to
[26:22] >> and that matter.
[26:23] >> Well, have to, right? Um, but for
[26:26] instance, if we grant the food
[26:27] [clears throat] truck
[26:29] special permit, in theory they could
[26:31] come in front of us weekly or daily and
[26:34] make the request,
[26:36] but we would not want that.
[26:39] >> That's also illegal.
[26:41] >> Is it? [laughter]
[26:41] >> Yes, it is. Because we're not allowed
[26:43] to.
[26:43] >> Oh, no.
[26:46] >> Well, yeah, exactly.
[26:48] >> So, it would be saving time,
[26:51] >> right? But we can't do we can't grant
[26:53] >> Not us. Yes. Yes. But possibly bumping
[26:56] it
[26:58] >> back. we we we we can't you know we
[27:02] don't have power to send it some other
[27:04] place you know
[27:07] >> so in the reading of everything and the
[27:11] evaluation of everything
[27:16] there's not been any
[27:19] idea as to
[27:21] call it a loophole a way we can bend it
[27:25] a way we can
[27:27] spin it
[27:28] >> it's not our job to find that loophole
[27:31] at this point because they submitted
[27:33] that application.
[27:35] >> I think the loophole would be saying
[27:36] it's non-conforming that it hasn't
[27:38] changed views.
[27:39] >> They also did not technically apply for
[27:41] a non-conforming special permit. They
[27:44] just applied for a special permit
[27:45] generally. But there is no such thing as
[27:47] a
[27:49] my understanding.
[27:51] >> Non-conforming
[27:53] section 3.9 [clears throat]
[27:54] is our non-conforming section under the
[27:56] bylaw which is about 90% of the
[27:58] applications we receive.
[28:00] >> But that's for something changing.
[28:02] >> That is for an alteration or extension
[28:05] >> of the pre-existing
[28:06] >> pre-existing but that's not for
[28:08] pre-existing.
[28:12] See, the problem is um when you're
[28:15] looking at this the um
[28:20] the first problem is [clears throat]
[28:23] food truck
[28:25] um working on that land is not a
[28:27] continuous thing. If it had been going
[28:28] on since before the the property was
[28:32] zoned residential or before food trucks
[28:35] were specifically not residential. It'd
[28:38] be one thing, but it but it's it was it
[28:42] was very occasional. I don't even know
[28:44] if it was every year.
[28:46] >> That doesn't mean they couldn't have
[28:47] come forward and asked. It would be
[28:49] similar to like shutting down a store
[28:50] because they
[28:52] >> they they've come they've come forward
[28:54] to ask and that's what we're discussing
[28:57] now is that you know does what they're
[29:00] asking for meet
[29:03] the bylaws meet the state laws um and is it something that we actually can do? And my review of all those is is
[29:15] no. There's nothing in the bylaws that
[29:16] says we we're allowed to change use or variance use. There's nothing in
[29:25] um there's nothing in the the bylaws
[29:28] that allows us to get a special permit
[29:30] for a food truck.
[29:32] Um you know the based on that you have
[29:35] to look at what the the building
[29:36] inspector did which is the third thing
[29:38] and based on those two the building
[29:40] inspector was absolutely correct in his
[29:42] decision because he had no choice. It's
[29:45] not like we want to stop them from doing
[29:48] it in fact we can't allow them to do it.
[29:51] There's also sorry
[29:52] >> I was going to say and the use has to
[29:54] specifically be what the application is
[29:58] for. In this case, it I think continues
[30:01] was 10 years, Michael. Is that what it
[30:02] was?
[30:02] >> Yeah, that's why I say that.
[30:04] >> Um, so for 10 years, they would have had
[30:06] to have some type of food truck there or
[30:09] just use it.
[30:12] >> Yeah, they would have had, as I
[30:14] understand, they would have to have a
[30:16] food truck there continuously.
[30:18] >> I mean, you could theoretically will
[30:20] say,
[30:20] >> you could probably interpret that
[30:22] reasonably being like, all right, well,
[30:24] if they're not there on the weekends,
[30:26] there was a break between one and the
[30:27] other. three week break. But at least
[30:29] someone's like, "Oh, yes, that field,
[30:31] that's where the food truck is. That's
[30:33] where that is." [clears throat]
[30:34] >> Because when I look at the the Lion's
[30:36] history going back 10 years, um you look
[30:40] at, you know, 2012 to 2019 spring and
[30:43] fall flea markets, my
[30:46] thought would be in those flea markets,
[30:48] was there some type of food sold? Now,
[30:51] food trucks have just become a newer
[30:53] thing, but was it something else? So I
[30:56] mean I look at
[30:59] » once a year is once a year continuous I
[31:01] guess is my question.
[31:02] >> No I I okay
[31:04] >> it's not you know what I mean? I mean if
[31:06] it
[31:07] >> and I'm not trying to be difficult.
[31:08] >> No no no no no. These are important
[31:09] questions to to ask. You know I think it falls into the category of is it
[31:14] reasonable for the use about like how it
[31:16] is. Like for example you could say well
[31:18] there's a restaurant right there but
[31:20] they're they're not operating you know
[31:22] two days a week. Well, yes, because
[31:23] people maybe take the weekends off or
[31:25] Monday and Tuesday they close or
[31:26] whatever, but the opera, you know, it's
[31:28] not deemed like operationally, you know,
[31:31] closed. Um, and so there's a, for what
[31:34] it's worth, there's an SJC case, uh,
[31:37] from the late '7s called Powers, Powers
[31:39] versus Building Inspectors, where they
[31:40] talk about, and it was called the Powers
[31:43] test, and they talk about whether or not
[31:45] a use will be considered to be a change
[31:47] from the protected use.
[31:49] um and it's the resulting use does not
[31:52] reflect the nature and purpose of the
[31:53] use existing when the zoning law took
[31:55] effect which made it non-conforming or
[31:58] there is a difference in the quality or
[32:01] character as well as the degree between
[32:03] the resulting use and the originally
[32:05] protected use. That factor too like
[32:09] indicates to me that like it's it's the
[32:11] specific use. It's not there's got to be
[32:13] some sort of a change. Did you go from,
[32:15] you know, uh, you know, selling widgets
[32:19] to, you know, operating a restaurant?
[32:22] You could say, oh, they're both
[32:23] commercial, but there's a there's a
[32:24] material change between how it's being
[32:26] used. So, JT, you've been quiet, not not
[32:31] to cold call. [clears throat]
[32:32] >> No. Um, I've been listening to
[32:34] everything. Um, I I've
[32:37] put an immense amount of into this as
[32:40] well. you would
[32:41] >> put an immense amount of thought into
[32:42] this as well and research. I was looking
[32:45] for president
[32:48] someplace
[32:51] and
[32:52] not just in the Commonwealth just in
[32:55] general in other areas.
[32:59] They pretty much are very consistent
[33:02] when they say you cannot go outside the
[33:05] bounds of the bylaws that you are
[33:08] presented with.
[33:10] Um
[33:14] our bylaws the way they're written right
[33:16] now it's very
[33:18] difficult
[33:21] and this is not in any way I am a huge
[33:25] Lions fan. uh for [snorts] everything
[33:29] that they've done and I was really
[33:32] looking to see if there was some sort of
[33:34] wiggle room [gasps]
[33:36] from what I've seen and researched.
[33:40] I I don't think we we're pretty
[33:45] technically pigeon here. Well, I mean,
[33:47] part of it is also like the purpose of
[33:49] what we do sort of here, you know, as
[33:52] opposed to, you know, would someone want
[33:54] to hypothetically make an application to the town to resone that land, for
[33:58] example. Um, you know, or or make, you
[34:01] know, make other, you know, make other
[34:03] type of requests. Um, I don't think it
[34:06] should be the predominant reason, but it
[34:08] is notable that at least when the town
[34:12] modified the zoning when they modified
[34:14] the zoning bylaws to allow food trucks,
[34:16] was it 24 [clears throat] or 25?
[34:17] >> 2023
[34:18] >> 23, excuse me. Um, and there was a
[34:21] conscious choice to say, "All right,
[34:22] we'll allow food trucks and they're
[34:23] going to be there right in the um the
[34:26] lower business district, right?"
[34:28] um you know um you know so you know
[34:32] that's also a pretty recent decision.
[34:34] One other thing and I appreciate the
[34:36] fact that this is hyper technical um but
[34:38] I'm a law aware so assuming uh the um
[34:42] remember there's three things going on
[34:43] here. There's a special permit there's a
[34:45] variance and there's also an appeal of
[34:47] the building commissioner's decision.
[34:49] You got 30 days I understand we talked
[34:51] about this sort of before but you got 30
[34:53] days to appeal it.
[34:55] their appeal is outside those 30 days.
[34:57] It in my opinion it would be somewhat of
[35:01] an end run around that time period. If
[35:03] you could miss the time period but then
[35:05] also still submit an application for
[35:07] special permanent or variance then at
[35:09] that point what's the point of the
[35:10] decision? What's the point of having a
[35:12] time period to appeal a decision if you
[35:14] can just submit an application instead?
[35:17] You know again it's a hyper technical
[35:19] you know point but I think it's it's
[35:20] worth making. Um, I understand that uh
[35:23] Valerie is on the line. Um, Valerie, do
[35:26] you have anything to add to the
[35:27] discussion? If you don't, don't worry
[35:28] about it. I just figured I would I
[35:30] noticed that you had joined.
[35:34] » No, I don't. I'm just just listening in
[35:36] and trying to get caught up in where you
[35:37] are in the um in the deliberation. Thank
[35:40] you.
[35:40] >> Okay, great. Um other thoughts?
[35:50] I think the easiest concern that we've
[35:52] got three separate requests. I think the
[35:54] easiest is to kind of go through them
[35:55] one by one because we're going to have
[35:57] to issue three separate decisions and
[35:58] three separate votes. Sure. Okay. So I
[36:02] unless there's an objection I believe
[36:04] the easiest is the appeal of the
[36:06] administrative the building commission's
[36:08] decision. Um if we want to take a look
[36:10] at that or at least let me open the
[36:12] floor [clears throat] if anyone's got
[36:13] any thoughts about sort of how to handle
[36:15] that one.
[36:17] pass city.
[36:19] >> Sure. So, there's three there there's three requests which means we
[36:23] need to make three we have to have three
[36:25] separate decisions, three separate
[36:26] votes.
[36:28] Uh there's a special permit, there's a
[36:29] variance and there's the building
[36:31] commissioner's decision which they
[36:33] appealed.
[36:35] Um so, um I figured easiest might be to
[36:39] sort of talk take them one by one.
[36:41] >> Are we allowed to do the special one?
[36:44] >> We have to vote on we have to vote on
[36:46] all three. Okay. So, um but that's why I
[36:48] was sort of taking the low hanging fruit
[36:50] working with the appeal to administrator
[36:51] of the building's decision.
[36:53] >> I mean, at least from what I am seeing
[36:56] as I, you know, the building made the
[36:59] right decision based on the bylaws and
[37:01] the state law. So, um I think the only
[37:05] thing we can do is is deny it.
[37:08] >> I mean, the other thing too is just from
[37:09] a kind of a basic standpoint, you got 30
[37:12] days to appeal.
[37:13] >> That's true.
[37:14] >> Their appeal was outside 30 days. I I
[37:16] don't think we've got discretion
[37:18] um to to to alter that.
[37:32] The uh the only other comment I would
[37:34] make about that is I believe you would
[37:36] actually ask the applicant directly um
[37:40] if they felt there was any
[37:42] reason in defense of the appeal. And the
[37:46] response from the applicant pack was
[37:49] uh that no that they
[37:53] didn't feel that the building inspector
[37:56] commissioner was um incorrect in issuing
[38:01] the cease and disest
[38:04] um [clears throat]
[38:04] >> and they made the comment I think in the
[38:06] previous hearing that they felt he did
[38:08] make the right decision. So
[38:11] >> right
[38:13] to go along with that.
[38:15] >> So even if we took it up
[38:19] >> beyond the 30-day
[38:21] >> Yeah.
[38:21] >> that for me weighs pretty heavily.
[38:26] >> Um
[38:26] >> I have a question.
[38:28] >> Um if it was
[38:30] say like a event and they didn't have a
[38:35] special event permit,
[38:37] >> what happens?
[38:40] Is it the same? Would it be a cease and
[38:43] desist from
[38:46] » I'm not quite sure actually who's got
[38:48] the jurisdiction for that. Not every
[38:50] event requires a special event permit.
[38:53] Um
[38:55] I don't know exactly what the protocol
[38:57] is. Um it is not a zoning issue. So I I
[39:03] don't know because it's outside my job.
[39:07] um it's strictly through the select
[39:08] board and their design. So we would have
[39:11] to look at the select board's policy for
[39:13] that information, but ultimately that's
[39:16] not part of this case. Just
[39:20] for your brain around it.
[39:23] >> Yeah. No, I mean the difficulty is that
[39:25] like you know if I don't know if you
[39:28] know one of the churches in town wanted
[39:29] to you know throw some sort of a special
[39:33] event that you know based on town policy
[39:34] would require a special event permit
[39:36] because of like traffic or police
[39:39] presence or something along that nature.
[39:41] You know cease and desist probably
[39:43] doesn't make a difference because the
[39:45] event is probably over first of all
[39:46] that's one um whether or not the town
[39:48] wanted to take some sort of an action
[39:49] against them. I don't know even if they
[39:51] even have the ability to, you know,
[39:53] issue a fine or, you know,
[39:57] make some sort of statement afterwards
[39:58] about whether or not they're allowed to
[39:59] do stuff in the f. It certainly would
[40:00] probably be taken into consideration.
[40:02] They were asked for a special permit in
[40:04] the future. Like I've definitely seen
[40:05] that before, but that's usually within
[40:07] the jurisdiction of the select board.
[40:09] Um, so it's not really we don't really
[40:11] handle something.
[40:12] >> If an event is going on that shouldn't
[40:14] be though, typically the police are
[40:16] called in to shut it down,
[40:17] >> right? Yeah. So at that point in time,
[40:20] >> right? Um and so and I think there's
[40:23] actually been food truck situations like
[40:25] that. Uh I can think of in particular
[40:27] where I think it was technically within
[40:29] a a residential zone district and the
[40:31] police had to come and basically tell
[40:33] them when to go home. So all the issues
[40:36] that that arose and that it wasn't
[40:37] allowed. So
[40:40] um any other discussion on the the um
[40:46] the appeal of the building commissioners
[40:47] decision? Let's just focus on the board
[40:49] one at a time.
[40:51] >> Anything else from staff on that?
[40:54] >> Um, no. The board, some of the members
[40:58] are familiar, but in order to grant an
[41:00] appeal, you have to find error of the
[41:02] building commissioner. So, if there's no
[41:05] error, then the board cannot grant an
[41:07] appeal.
[41:09] >> If there's no error, they cannot grant
[41:11] I'm just having a hard time hearing.
[41:12] >> The board cannot grant an appeal if
[41:14] there's no error from the building
[41:16] commissioner.
[41:20] » [clears throat]
[41:26] » I was I was sensing a [laughter]
[41:27] comment.
[41:29] So
[41:30] >> I I'm just It's that repeating part
[41:34] essentially. I'm really struggling with
[41:37] that part [clears throat] of that
[41:38] existing non-conforming. Um and then
[41:42] trying to get my brain around because I
[41:44] I'm seeing
[41:44] >> it's not an existing non-conforming. is
[41:46] an occasional nonconformity exist in my
[41:50] definition existing one is one that's
[41:52] happening maybe not daily but on such a
[41:55] regular basis that it's it's it's
[41:58] normal.
[41:59] >> Okay. So it's the change in frequenc
[42:02] it's it's it's the fact that yeah it
[42:04] it's it's you know it's not something
[42:06] that they in the past have intended to
[42:09] do frequently. it's with it's either a
[42:12] special event or it's part of a special
[42:14] event that is um permitted whether it's
[42:18] a special permit or otherwise by the
[42:20] town group
[42:22] >> and then if they had that because it
[42:24] sounds like they've served food they've
[42:26] had food trucks there sounds like
[42:28] historically they didn't do special
[42:31] permits that's a new process so they've
[42:34] come into kind of bringing that that in
[42:37] um [laughter]
[42:38] I guess I feel like we're in that I mean
[42:40] >> it's not but the thing is that um the
[42:45] town's requirements for special permit
[42:47] may be new but that's not really the
[42:49] factor here. The factor is um is there a
[42:54] history of continuous use and
[42:56] [clears throat] however you want to
[42:56] define continuous use. Um
[43:00] at least my mind it's more than once or
[43:04] maybe twice a year.
[43:06] Um it it it really is an intentional use
[43:10] of that property for that purpose um on
[43:13] a regular basis.
[43:15] >> But I think they were free to use it for
[43:16] that purpose.
[43:18] >> They [clears throat] were free to use it
[43:19] for that purpose. [snorts]
[43:20] >> No, they weren't. They just they just
[43:23] they were um
[43:26] >> story.
[43:26] >> But even if hypothetically even if they
[43:30] even if a property owner could use a
[43:32] property,
[43:34] you know, for a non-conforming use, the
[43:36] fact that they didn't like that's the continuing part. It's not
[43:41] >> I don't think I the fact that they
[43:43] didn't hold an event to me doesn't mean
[43:46] they weren't.
[43:47] >> Then they're not using [clears throat]
[43:48] it.
[43:48] >> No, they still are. They're still
[43:50] maintaining it. They're still there,
[43:52] >> but they're not using like like having
[43:54] the land and maintaining it is different
[43:56] than than what's the use of it, you
[43:58] know?
[43:58] >> Well, you know, compare it to say a
[44:00] store. Um, if you've got a store and the
[44:04] store is just there and there's no
[44:06] customers, it's just there. They make no
[44:08] [clears throat] sales. Um, nobody walks
[44:11] in the door. Um, but the business is
[44:14] there, they keep the building, they da
[44:18] >> I I I I would agree that is a continuing
[44:20] use.
[44:21] >> That is a continuing use. That is
[44:23] >> except if it's a store in a residential
[44:26] property and it's not used for 10 years
[44:28] or so, they lose that right to use it as
[44:31] a
[44:32] >> money within 10 years.
[44:34] >> I have an example, Maria, that I think
[44:36] could help.
[44:38] >> So, you have a farm, right? If you host
[44:41] a wedding at your farm, not yours like
[44:44] the person says, "I want to host a
[44:46] wedding." Say, "Sure."
[44:48] >> Does your property Does the use of your
[44:51] property change from farm to wedding
[44:53] venue for that one event?
[44:55] >> I would think so. Yes.
[44:57] >> For so
[45:00] >> I would think I needed to come for
[45:02] occupancy
[45:04] dynamics
[45:06] >> for for that purpose. We'll just say put
[45:09] that off to the side. Is your property
[45:12] now going to be a wedding venue or after
[45:15] the the event it's going to continue
[45:17] back being a farm?
[45:20] >> Uh,
[45:23] so one day a year it's a you host a
[45:26] wedding and the other 364 days you're
[45:30] farming.
[45:31] >> So hosting a wedding on a farm is
[45:33] farming is probably what I would say.
[45:37] that would be an accessory use to the
[45:39] farm. It's not the overall land use,
[45:42] >> but that would still be different than
[45:44] now because
[45:46] >> but now for this example for them, they
[45:49] had a food truck festival which was
[45:52] we'll just say 5 days a year
[45:54] >> for easy numbers. And then in the one
[45:57] that they gave us or the memo that they
[46:00] gave us, they said 52 weeks a year
[46:04] going from five events to 52 weeks
[46:11] is a is a jump from the [clears throat]
[46:14] proportion of
[46:16] >> I guess I see it as a
[46:18] >> it would be a field for a vacant field
[46:21] for 300 days of 360 days of the year and
[46:24] then 5 days it as an event.
[46:28] >> See, I don't see it as a vacant field. I
[46:30] see it as they have the freedom to do
[46:32] [clears throat] the events during that
[46:34] period.
[46:35] >> True. But they have the freedom to do
[46:37] many different events which they have
[46:39] done and because of that and they have
[46:42] not done
[46:45] the law typically says what a reasonable
[46:48] person
[46:50] would
[46:52] find
[46:53] um in a situation
[46:57] a once a year
[47:00] food truck festival
[47:03] would not be deemed as a 365 day use by
[47:08] a reasonable person.
[47:10] And that's where the definition
[47:14] should fall in. They've used it for many
[47:18] different events
[47:20] from their horse shows to carnivals
[47:24] u to flea markets to um flower sales uh
[47:32] and yard sales.
[47:34] Um,
[47:37] I would not deem any of those as
[47:42] a continuous use because it's not over a
[47:47] 365day period. So, a reasonable person
[47:50] would not
[47:52] find it to be that.
[47:55] Um,
[47:56] that's what they're asking us to do now.
[48:00] the food truck. And unfortunately,
[48:03] >> well, the food truck's mobile.
[48:05] >> Excuse me.
[48:05] >> The food truck is mobile. It's not.
[48:08] >> It is mobile, but it is there the vast
[48:11] majority of the time,
[48:13] >> right? Yeah. So, yeah, finding that
[48:15] continuous,
[48:16] >> right? And that would be defined as
[48:18] continuous of the same venue.
[48:24] and a reasonable person
[48:27] would then say, "Oh,
[48:30] that's where that taco food truck is
[48:33] going to be that I can go to at
[48:36] lunchtime and have my tacos."
[48:39] I guess in my brain the way forward and
[48:42] I don't know what the official way would
[48:44] be but would be so they come about it
[48:47] the correct direction and applied for a
[48:51] special permit or an event permit or
[48:53] however to the select board
[48:56] how frequent like when would they have
[48:59] gotten the answer no
[49:00] >> yeah that's a question not a
[49:02] conversation we can have because it's
[49:03] not on our purview they would have to go
[49:05] talk to the sl
[49:06] >> and that's why I get confused of why
[49:08] we're here person
[49:09] >> because they came to us. They [laughter]
[49:12] >> Yeah.
[49:13] >> Special event permits have nothing to do
[49:16] with zoning,
[49:17] >> right?
[49:18] >> Okay. So, special event permits are for
[49:21] those one-off events that typically do
[49:24] not happen at a site but have some
[49:27] impact to a private or a public road or
[49:33] public property.
[49:35] So, we are not stopping them from having
[49:37] events. They can have they could do a
[49:40] food truck festival in the fall. They
[49:42] could do a flower sale in spring. They
[49:44] could do a horse show in the summer.
[49:46] They can do all of those things still,
[49:48] but they would need to do it as a
[49:49] special event basis only.
[49:52] [laughter] If they're having something
[49:53] there every day, that's no longer
[49:57] considered a special event. If it's
[49:59] there most days of the year, [snorts]
[50:01] that's not a special event. That's a
[50:03] continued use. And it has to be that one
[50:06] specific use. Not for the next six
[50:10] months, every other day there's going to
[50:12] be something on that property. It has to
[50:14] be this is going to be on the property
[50:16] for the next six months.
[50:22] Again, like they talk [clears throat]
[50:24] about whether there's a difference in
[50:25] the quality or the character as well as
[50:27] the degree of the press use. So I think
[50:30] you know quality and character talks
[50:32] about like the type that's being done.
[50:35] It'd be an interesting question if it
[50:37] all at all involves food sales for
[50:39] example then I mean you know it's
[50:40] potentially open to interpretation but I
[50:42] think [clears throat]
[50:44] I think it's a little more difficult
[50:45] here.
[50:48] So the fact that they have used it
[50:52] some kind of use
[50:55] for the past
[50:58] at least 10 years doesn't matter because
[51:01] it hasn't been a food truck for 10
[51:02] years.
[51:04] The PR yes the principal use
[51:09] >> has not been for hosting food truck but
[51:11] there's been these temporary events for
[51:14] food truck use
[51:16] >> the farm sorry and is that primary use
[51:19] again so they they would have had deemed
[51:21] the primary use of that property was to
[51:24] have some number of food trucks for some
[51:26] number of days a year
[51:29] that's the only way
[51:31] or the only that would make the
[51:34] definition of continuous this use it
[51:37] would be okay but since it hasn't been
[51:43] » well actually
[51:45] >> probably not that's that's
[51:49] » I mean because it's still we still can't
[51:52] change the the legal use of the property
[51:55] and we still can't give them a special
[51:57] permit
[51:58] >> right
[51:58] >> so whether it's whether it was
[52:00] continuously used or not we'd still be
[52:02] in the same spot
[52:05] And the continuous use is defined by our
[52:09] bylaw or the state definition.
[52:12] >> It's both.
[52:13] >> Both.
[52:14] >> Yeah.
[52:16] >> Reflects the use.
[52:17] >> I'm sorry.
[52:18] >> Our bylaw reflects the state law
[52:21] >> 48 section six.
[52:22] >> I think I believe it's six or five or
[52:25] six.
[52:29] » [clears throat]
[52:31] » I know there's a lot of legal things
[52:33] around the mobile dynamic there
[52:36] with
[52:39] which is why the food truck is such a
[52:43] [laughter]
[52:45] So another example of something that
[52:48] would be like a mobile use would be um
[52:50] the truck stop
[52:53] where people can park their trucks
[52:56] overnight, sleep and then move on in the
[52:59] morning. Those vehicles are constantly
[53:01] are coming in and out, stopping,
[53:05] but you would still deem the use of that
[53:06] property as a truck stop even if there's
[53:08] not always a truck there. Correct.
[53:13] So, [clears throat]
[53:16] so if it has to be a spec um my head's
[53:20] getting wrapped and unwrapped. So, if it
[53:23] has to be a very specific use, aka a
[53:26] food truck,
[53:28] and if food trucks haven't been around
[53:30] for 10 years, let's say they've only
[53:33] been around for 5 years,
[53:35] how can it now be continuous for 10
[53:38] years? The So, how does that work?
[53:42] >> I'll let Valerie, the planning director,
[53:45] speak on this. She has her hand raised.
[53:51] » Yeah. So, um, sorry, I'm having some bad
[53:54] internet over here. So, if you can't
[53:55] hear me, I apologize. Um, but one thing
[53:59] I did want to add is, so if you're
[54:01] living, you're living in a residential
[54:03] neighborhood and if your neighbor
[54:06] decides to have a food truck once a
[54:09] season,
[54:11] that is not a way to like to back your
[54:14] way into a zoning exemption, right? You
[54:18] can't you can't create a new use for
[54:21] yourself um simply because you choose to
[54:25] do it a few times a year or once a year,
[54:29] right? So, if your neighbor had a food
[54:31] truck for a wedding, that doesn't mean
[54:33] that they are now a legal food truck
[54:36] location.
[54:38] And the continuous use is also related
[54:41] to when our zoning was enacted,
[54:46] right? I I think Michael I put that in
[54:49] the memo as well.
[54:54] I don't know if that's helpful at all or
[54:57] if you can hear me. [snorts]
[54:59] >> We can hear.
[55:01] >> All right.
[55:01] >> I will say for what it's worth, I would
[55:05] [clears throat]
[55:06] I think there is a reasonable
[55:07] interpretation where it doesn't
[55:10] necessarily have to be as specific as a
[55:12] food truck. I could imagine a world that
[55:14] way, but it would have to One could
[55:17] argue it would have to fall under, I
[55:19] don't know, sale of food or something
[55:22] like that, you know. Um, you could say,
[55:24] well, that industry didn't exist back
[55:26] then. And [clears throat] I get that.
[55:27] Um,
[55:29] but, um, you know, switching from,
[55:33] you know, landscaping to, you know, sale
[55:37] widgets, like, you know, just even a
[55:39] widget didn't exist two years ago, like
[55:42] I don't think that would apply.
[55:43] [laughter]
[55:44] And the other dilemma
[55:52] Oh, I know what it is. The other dilemma
[55:54] is even if it was the same use, it
[55:58] sounds like using it only a handful of
[56:00] days a year does not constitute
[56:02] continuous. That's the other dilemma.
[56:05] >> Yeah. So while [clears throat] they
[56:07] could have shown a food truck event for
[56:09] the past 12 years, if it was if it was a
[56:11] oneoff or a two off, not necessarily
[56:15] considered continuous use.
[56:18] At least that's the position I would
[56:21] that [clears throat] I certainly would
[56:21] take.
[56:36] All right. Any other discussion? Let's
[56:38] just focus on like I said we'll do this
[56:40] one at a time or on the
[56:43] building decision
[56:46] >> on the which one
[56:46] >> the building decision desist.
[56:49] >> Okay. [laughter]
[56:50] Um,
[56:52] anything else?
[56:55] [laughter]
[56:59] » Decisions or hold off or on an outcome.
[57:04] No.
[57:05] >> Um, well, I'll entertain a motion if
[57:08] anyone has one
[57:11] or we can look at a draft decision and
[57:15] entertain a motion after we take a look
[57:17] at that.
[57:19] What do I do?
[57:22] I
[57:22] >> have to make a motion. People really
[57:24] want to look at the decision first.
[57:27] >> As a reminder, by the way, it's always a
[57:28] two-step process. You vote on you you
[57:31] vote on what to do and then you actually
[57:32] vote on the actual.
[57:34] >> I make a motion that we deny the appeal
[57:37] of the building inspector's decision.
[57:40] >> Second.
[57:41] >> We have a motion, a second. Any further
[57:44] discussion?
[57:46] Hearing none. All in favor of tonight
[57:48] appeal
[57:54] draft
[57:59] and for what it's worth and [laughter]
[58:02] not I don't mean to like don't feel like
[58:04] you know even though many of our
[58:06] decisions not you know unanimous there's
[58:08] actually no obligation to do so disagree
[58:15] um [clears throat]
[58:22] draft
[58:24] decision that's been um
[58:27] passed down on just this issue. Um so
[58:32] I'll open the floor for any comments or
[58:36] edits.
[58:48] This is so
[58:50] That's what I got.
[58:55] [laughter]
[59:05] » [laughter]
[59:22] » Top page three, section five. [laughter]
[59:26] Letter states that the property is
[59:27] located with the residential district.
[59:36] » [laughter]
[1:00:02] » seven. Uh should that it says um last
[1:00:07] shouldn't that say uh since we're
[1:00:09] talking residential should that say
[1:00:10] residential district instead of
[1:00:12] recreation
[1:00:15] [laughter] at the end of it?
[1:00:16] [clears throat]
[1:00:17] Um yes should be rescue.
[1:00:41] [laughter]
[1:00:52] » [snorts]
[1:01:01] [clears throat]
[1:01:28] » from history. Number 10, special event
[1:01:31] permits law for local food vendors to
[1:01:33] offer the site on a temporary basis.
[1:01:59] » [laughter]
[1:02:03] » I would disagree with number 11.
[1:02:07] [laughter]
[1:02:09] I feel that they provided information
[1:02:12] supporting that there was
[1:02:14] >> no outside special events
[1:02:17] >> right with this historical survey of
[1:02:19] food. Oh, outside of special events
[1:02:22] record. [laughter]
[1:02:28] Oh, this historical
[1:02:31] that the special events
[1:02:34] went on without special event permits.
[1:02:37] I just the word permit just say stuff.
[1:02:45] [laughter]
[1:02:51] I also don't agree with the property
[1:02:52] remains vacant.
[1:03:02] [laughter]
[1:03:09] » [laughter]
[1:03:15] » We have to be a little bit more specific
[1:03:17] about Glenn cuz he was here one.
[1:03:21] >> Yes. I just note that he was I'll modify
[1:03:24] that as he was present during the first
[1:03:25] public hearing session but was not
[1:03:27] present um at the last two
[1:03:34] [laughter]
[1:03:49] [clears throat]
[1:03:50] >> Oh it Actually, yes.
[1:03:52] >> Sorry.
[1:03:52] >> We'll have to redo that.
[1:03:54] >> That's my apologies
[1:03:57] because it's up.
[1:03:58] >> Yes.
[1:04:00] >> That is my
[1:04:06] [laughter]
[1:04:07] need to be to approve and adopt. You
[1:04:09] would also need to be a roll call.
[1:04:18] » [laughter]
[1:04:46] >> Heat. Heat.
[1:04:55] [laughter]
[1:05:20] » [clears throat]
[1:05:23] » and just so
[1:05:26] not denying the appeal
[1:05:28] would essentially be saying that
[1:05:32] [clears throat]
[1:05:32] it was my right to have a food truck
[1:05:35] permanently parked there.
[1:05:39] All right.
[1:05:41] Go ahead.
[1:05:43] Um
[1:05:47] basically what it's saying is that the
[1:05:49] build building was long in the way
[1:05:51] enforce the bylaw.
[1:05:53] So that not necessarily saying that it
[1:05:56] was by right but that they they did well
[1:05:59] that yeah but by in the bylaw that that
[1:06:02] he read the bylaw and the bylaw does say
[1:06:04] they inhald. It's not necessarily saying
[1:06:07] that they earn the right to it by by by
[1:06:11] any means.
[1:06:12] >> The other side of it could be
[1:06:15] could that would be
[1:06:17] >> well if we if we basically we would say
[1:06:20] that the decision as written by the
[1:06:22] building inspector had a mistake in it.
[1:06:26] Something he said was wrong.
[1:06:29] [laughter]
[1:06:31] >> Not to be sort of picky about it. You
[1:06:33] could theoretically say we're going to
[1:06:36] grant the appeal because the building
[1:06:37] there was an error in the building
[1:06:38] commissioner decision that doesn't
[1:06:40] actually go to the ultimate issue. You
[1:06:43] know what I mean? Like what happens if I
[1:06:44] don't know he exhibited bias or he
[1:06:47] didn't even investigate it or he issued
[1:06:49] it and actually I can tell you in one
[1:06:52] instance I remember there was an appeal
[1:06:54] and we didn't think he actually properly
[1:06:55] explained it well and we ended up like
[1:06:58] remanding it back to him and say
[1:06:59] basically do it again. Um, I know we've
[1:07:02] done that before. So, you know, the
[1:07:04] question is just like, was there an
[1:07:05] error such that we should throw the CC
[1:07:08] synthesis letter out? You know, it could
[1:07:10] be a procedural error. It could be, you
[1:07:13] [clears throat] know, it could be the
[1:07:14] fact that he misinterpreted the bylaws.
[1:07:16] So, just for what it's worth, that would
[1:07:18] be the basis for for um
[1:07:23] granting the appeal, that there's some
[1:07:25] error with the decision and therefore it
[1:07:27] should be tossed. which does not mean
[1:07:29] that that would automatically grant them
[1:07:31] the right to have a food truck there. It
[1:07:33] just grants them the right to have no
[1:07:36] sees.
[1:07:37] >> Yeah, basically. And then they still
[1:07:39] have to get they still have to go
[1:07:41] forward and get something to allow them
[1:07:43] to do it
[1:07:44] >> or or point to something. The violence
[1:07:46] says we can do it by right.
[1:07:47] >> Exactly. Yeah.
[1:07:50] [clears throat]
[1:07:50] >> It does. I'm trying to
[1:07:55] because you know he gave the cease and
[1:07:57] desist letter but he also let it
[1:08:00] continue in the meantime.
[1:08:07] » Okay. Go ahead. I know what you say.
[1:08:10] >> So there are times when if there is an
[1:08:13] active appeal there will be no action
[1:08:15] taken by the building commissioner until
[1:08:16] the board renders a decision.
[1:08:19] Is that the point?
[1:08:22] So it was first to cease and desist and
[1:08:25] then when they appealed that
[1:08:28] >> he said that you don't need to that the
[1:08:30] food truck needed to go.
[1:08:32] >> So yeah, so he's told them the food
[1:08:35] truck needs to go. Then the appeal
[1:08:37] period for that decision began. At the
[1:08:41] end of the appeal period, he can begin
[1:08:44] issuing fines if no action is taken.
[1:08:51] it sometimes it generally gets paused if
[1:08:56] something is brought to the ZA because
[1:08:58] asking for fines every day for something
[1:09:01] where he could have been wrong is not
[1:09:04] the most appropriate.
[1:09:07] So it's operating now because he's not
[1:09:10] going to enforce the decision until this
[1:09:12] board renders decision.
[1:09:15] Once this board does render a decision,
[1:09:17] whatever it is, he'll have to enforce
[1:09:19] that.
[1:09:22] >> Well, actually, technically, he could
[1:09:23] wait because they could appeal.
[1:09:26] >> They could. Yes,
[1:09:27] >> they could take a They could take
[1:09:29] another appeal if they wanted to to for
[1:09:31] example
[1:09:33] cause it again.
[1:09:38] » Does that make sense?
[1:09:40] >> Yeah. I'm still still struggling. Yeah,
[1:09:44] >> that's okay.
[1:09:46] Um any other um edits,
[1:09:50] questions, issues? I think that
[1:09:54] [laughter]
[1:09:55] um because I messed up procedurally, uh
[1:09:59] I need a new motion to vote again um on first and not the written decision,
[1:10:08] the
[1:10:10] [clears throat] actions you [laughter]
[1:10:11] take.
[1:10:11] >> Okay. I make a motion to deny the appeal
[1:10:15] of the building as specialist decision.
[1:10:18] >> Okay, we have a motion second. We have a
[1:10:20] second. Any discussion? All right, we'll
[1:10:23] take this by call. Uh Deb,
[1:10:25] >> hi
[1:10:26] >> JT.
[1:10:27] >> Hi Maria.
[1:10:28] >> Hi.
[1:10:31] >> I'll vote you as well.
[1:10:35] » Um
[1:10:37] okay. Unless there's any other edits,
[1:10:40] um on the written decision, uh I'll make
[1:10:43] a a motion on that.
[1:10:45] >> I'll make a motion to to accept the
[1:10:48] decision as amended.
[1:10:51] >> Have a motion.
[1:10:52] >> Second.
[1:10:52] >> A second. Any discussion or further
[1:10:55] edits or questions or concerns about the
[1:10:56] written decision
[1:10:59] hearing? None. I'll take this also by
[1:11:01] roll call vote.
[1:11:02] >> Debingly I
[1:11:04] >> JT I
[1:11:08] and the chairman. [snorts] All right. Um
[1:11:13] so that decision is um [laughter]
[1:11:16] that decision is done. Um,
[1:11:20] all right. Moving on to the I think
[1:11:24] we'll do the special permit next. Okay.
[1:11:27] Um,
[1:11:28] >> so with regards to that mentioned
[1:11:30] planning board, I'm trying to figure
[1:11:33] what the way forward.
[1:11:37] Um,
[1:11:43] [clears throat]
[1:11:46] » [laughter]
[1:12:02] » figure out how they can make this
[1:12:05] or let's see. Yeah.
[1:12:09] Um
[1:12:12] she by the plan for
[1:12:16] [laughter]
[1:12:17] I mean did have to talk to the plan.
[1:12:19] >> Yeah.
[1:12:21] >> That's not something we can get involved
[1:12:23] >> and I guess I'm trying to to flush out.
[1:12:25] Exactly. So as we're looking at this
[1:12:29] so this is this a special permit saying
[1:12:32] they're not too
[1:12:33] >> Oh the next one.
[1:12:34] >> Yes.
[1:12:34] Yeah. Yeah. So, as part of their
[1:12:36] application, they requested a special
[1:12:38] permit under our bylaws. Um, and that's
[1:12:40] where it's the whole pre-existing
[1:12:42] non-conforming
[1:12:44] uh use issue.
[1:12:46] >> And the
[1:12:49] and we can or cannot grant special
[1:12:51] permits. [snorts]
[1:12:52] >> We could, but we grant special permits
[1:12:54] all the time. Typically, the special
[1:12:56] permits we grant involve pre-existing
[1:12:58] non-conforming structures. um you know
[1:13:01] where a house was built
[1:13:04] you know 10 ft from the you know from
[1:13:07] the setback or 10 ft into the setback
[1:13:09] you know it's been there for 40 years or
[1:13:11] whatever it might be and they want to
[1:13:13] increase it by another two feet and then
[1:13:15] we evaluate you know how is it within
[1:13:17] the neighborhood does it
[1:13:21] with all the factors um but that's how
[1:13:23] we how we typically do the tens of more
[1:13:25] structures in the property itself and
[1:13:28] the reality is is that was it like I
[1:13:30] can't remember the percentage of
[1:13:32] pre-existing non-conforming lots we have
[1:13:33] in the town is every single basage and
[1:13:38] things like that. So
[1:13:41] specifically for food trucks, the plan
[1:13:44] board is the only organization that can
[1:13:46] issue a special permit but only only in
[1:13:50] lower village.
[1:13:52] >> Okay. So, you know, if they had wanted
[1:13:55] if they wanted to continue forth, they'd
[1:13:57] have to
[1:13:59] get a special permit for use in lower
[1:14:01] village.
[1:14:06] Yeah. Yeah.
[1:14:09] We have no rights to it at all. Okay.
[1:14:14] » Yeah.
[1:14:16] Um,
[1:14:18] we can
[1:14:20] I'm sorry, I'm not trying uh cut things
[1:14:23] off any there any other discussion
[1:14:25] comments issues to bring up with respect
[1:14:27] to the special permit question
[1:14:30] if you want to take a look at a draft
[1:14:32] decision as [clears throat] part of the
[1:14:34] discussion we can definitely do that
[1:14:36] very helpful Sure
[1:14:38] [snorts]
[1:14:39] >> sometimes it's easier to see it in
[1:14:40] writing rather than conceptual because
[1:14:42] then you see in writing and realize I
[1:14:43] don't like the way it's it's written I
[1:14:45] don't like how it feels whatever it
[1:14:46] might be
[1:14:54] » [laughter]
[1:15:48] » for
[1:15:50] this.
[1:16:10] Hey,
[1:16:22] let's see.
[1:16:25] >> [clears throat and snorts]
[1:16:46] » Page three, section three.
[1:16:50] It says 10 years or more 10 years.
[1:17:05] » [laughter]
[1:17:24] » And number nine, [clears throat] it says
[1:17:26] the applicant say the properties been
[1:17:28] used special events hosting the food
[1:17:30] vendors
[1:17:32] that we can
[1:17:34] is this document is is on the list
[1:17:38] it is yes it's 2D
[1:17:43] I wonder if it might be better just to
[1:17:45] say yeah say for such include hosting
[1:17:49] food measures and for the uses set forth
[1:17:53] in the document referenced in two
[1:18:00] A little bit more.
[1:18:02] Thank you.
[1:18:30] » [laughter]
[1:18:30] >> 13.
[1:18:32] Uh, if the use is not pre-existing, not
[1:18:35] performing. I think if the use is not
[1:18:37] pre-existing and not performing,
[1:18:40] true.
[1:18:55] » [laughter]
[1:19:06] » So I believe this one that I don't agree
[1:19:09] with. I just
[1:19:14] » I believe it would be this one that I
[1:19:15] don't agree with since I'm seeing it.
[1:19:18] >> Okay.
[1:19:21] Not as an extension per se.
[1:19:28] Is there a particular line that you or
[1:19:31] point that you don't agree?
[1:19:33] >> Well, I think I but I mean you haven't
[1:19:35] talked in specifics, but I think I would
[1:19:36] lean towards granting a special.
[1:19:39] >> Okay. Well, in that case, if there's
[1:19:42] motion to deny, you can always go.
[1:19:48] [laughter]
[1:19:49] [clears throat]
[1:20:20] » [laughter]
[1:20:22] [clears throat]
[1:20:28] [laughter]
[1:20:46] >> Is this roll?
[1:20:48] >> Yeah.
[1:20:53] » Thank you.
[1:20:55] [laughter]
[1:21:10] » [laughter]
[1:21:22] [snorts]
[1:21:25] [laughter]
[1:21:27] [clears throat]
[1:21:29] » One other thing I might consider is
[1:21:30] adding 11.
[1:21:32] [laughter] tips because a special event
[1:21:34] coming require obtaining those
[1:21:35] instances. The board finds that the
[1:21:37] ordinary use of the site is not for
[1:21:38] hosting mobile food members.
[1:21:41] One thing to consider maybe is to add
[1:21:45] after the comma where it says because a
[1:21:48] special event permit is required and
[1:21:50] obtained in those instances that we
[1:21:52] would add and there's not otherwise been
[1:21:54] continuing ongoing food sales on the
[1:21:56] property.
[1:21:58] The board finds a decree.
[1:22:21] Fther edits, thoughts, comments,
[1:22:23] questions, any discussion.
[1:22:27] [laughter]
[1:22:31] In that case, I'll entertain a motion.
[1:22:33] [laughter]
[1:22:35] » I make a motion to deny the special case
[1:22:39] for a [laughter] special permit. We have
[1:22:41] a motion. Second, a second. Any further
[1:22:44] discussion?
[1:22:46] Hearing none. Oh, go ahead.
[1:22:48] >> Just trying to figure out I
[1:22:50] >> Yeah. That's fine. Uh hearing none. Um
[1:22:53] all in favor of denying a special
[1:22:54] permit.
[1:22:57] All opposed.
[1:22:59] So by vote 4 to one. Um the special
[1:23:02] permit is denied. Um any other edits,
[1:23:07] thoughts, comments, amendments to the
[1:23:08] draft decision.
[1:23:12] Okay.
[1:23:14] [laughter]
[1:23:16] Sorry. Just based on that, I would
[1:23:19] recommend them just change that correct
[1:23:23] um phone numbers present. Um those and
[1:23:27] taking Maria off this correct
[1:23:37] [laughter]
[1:23:39] motion to approve the [laughter]
[1:23:42] decision for the special permit as
[1:23:44] amended. Started with a motion with a
[1:23:47] second. Any discussion? Hearing none.
[1:23:49] All in favor of adopting the written
[1:23:52] decision as amended.
[1:23:55] All post
[1:23:57] by voter 41. That also passes.
[1:24:00] [laughter]
[1:24:01] All right. The last uh part of the
[1:24:04] application involves the variance. Um I
[1:24:07] think it might be helpful just to see it
[1:24:09] on paper uh to [clears throat] aid in
[1:24:11] our discussion.
[1:24:14] Okay.
[1:24:24] [laughter]
[1:24:42] » [laughter]
[1:24:59] » Um, [laughter and clears throat]
[1:25:00] in the documents list correspondence
[1:25:04] 3D says email from police department
[1:25:06] dated 13, 26.
[1:25:09] signal.
[1:25:14] [laughter]
[1:25:36] [snorts]
[1:25:37] Okay. project.
[1:25:55] [snorts]
[1:25:56] Tell
[1:26:14] » [laughter]
[1:26:30] » So just a clarification on
[1:26:33] where it says except for local
[1:26:35] ordinances or bylaws expressly permit
[1:26:38] variance for use, ours specifically
[1:26:41] ours does not
[1:26:44] permit variance for use. Correct.
[1:26:48] >> Ours does not express
[1:26:49] >> does not okay.
[1:26:56] [laughter]
[1:27:09] handshakes, but
[1:27:12] the hands [laughter]
[1:27:12] test.
[1:27:14] No, I guess
[1:27:31] people reviewing any thoughts,
[1:27:33] discussion, edits, comments.
[1:27:43] Not exactly sure [laughter] or special
[1:27:46] permit is the correct one clarifying but
[1:27:49] just yeah
[1:27:52] recognizing I'm not seeing it as an
[1:27:54] expansion of use just as they used to
[1:27:56] serve food.
[1:27:59] >> Yeah, it's more the special issue.
[1:28:02] >> Okay, so that's better.
[1:28:08] Other
[1:28:10] [laughter]
[1:28:15] [clears throat]
[1:28:19] [laughter]
[1:28:35] questions, comments, thoughts?
[1:28:41] Not
[1:28:43] a motion to [laughter]
[1:28:45] deny.
[1:28:47] No, sorry.
[1:28:49] Deny the request for
[1:28:53] second. We have a motion with a second.
[1:28:55] Any discussion?
[1:28:58] Hearing none. All in favor?
[1:29:03] All right. Any edits, comments, changes,
[1:29:06] deletions restrict the draft decision.
[1:29:16] » Make a motion to approve the decision as
[1:29:20] amended.
[1:29:22] >> Second
[1:29:24] motion in a second. Any discussion?
[1:29:28] Hearing none. All in favor of accepting
[1:29:30] the decision as amended.
[1:29:33] >> [laughter]
[1:29:35] >> That motion passes. Um
[1:29:42] procedure.
[1:29:43] >> Yes. Procedure. Uh next steps for that.
[1:29:45] >> So the next steps are um I will make the
[1:29:47] edits that the board suggested to these
[1:29:49] decisions
[1:29:51] and I will provide you a copy of that.
[1:29:54] Um once these get filed with the town
[1:29:56] clerk, that's when I'll do that. Um, you
[1:30:01] have the right to appeal any decision of
[1:30:03] the board to land court or superior
[1:30:05] court. Um, and that must be done within
[1:30:08] 20 days of the filing with the town
[1:30:11] clerk. Um, I anticipate doing that
[1:30:14] tomorrow. So, 20 days from tomorrow,
[1:30:17] we'll begin the appeal period. Um, I
[1:30:21] think the town clerk has stuff about
[1:30:22] appeals if that's something you're
[1:30:24] interested in. Um but otherwise um
[1:30:29] there's no further action from this
[1:30:31] board.
[1:30:34] >> Nice. Thank you for Thank you for your
[1:30:35] time.
[1:30:36] >> Thank you.
[1:30:39] >> On behalf of Mr. Alliance, we graciously
[1:30:42] appreciate your time and diligence not
[1:30:44] only here um but the meetings before and
[1:30:47] I know there's many hours that you spent
[1:30:49] that we don't see.
[1:30:52] Thank you for your diligence.
[1:30:53] >> Yeah. and thank you so much for your
[1:30:54] time, your patience, and for the the
[1:30:56] moving of the the meeting from the the
[1:30:58] last time. We appreciate that, but thank
[1:31:01] you so much.
[1:31:05] » All right. I don't believe we have
[1:31:06] anything else on the agenda for this
[1:31:08] meeting. Um, can I get a preview of our
[1:31:12] next meeting or anything? Um, the next
[1:31:15] meeting, I think we were going to
[1:31:18] discuss the recent changes to chapter
[1:31:20] 4A.
[1:31:22] Um the planning board has discussed that
[1:31:24] there is another um bill that is out
[1:31:27] right now that has not yet been adopted
[1:31:29] that the board might be interested in.
[1:31:32] Um
[1:31:34] and then
[1:31:36] there are no other applications filed
[1:31:39] for September. The deadline was last
[1:31:42] Thursday and I did not receive anything.
[1:31:46] Um there's one that might come in for
[1:31:47] October, but other than that it's been
[1:31:49] fairly quiet. [laughter]
[1:31:51] Great.
[1:31:54] >> And we're on the
[1:31:57] October Oh, September September 14th.
[1:32:01] >> Yeah. Yeah.
[1:32:07] >> As of now.
[1:32:09] >> Yes. So
[1:32:12] [clears throat]
[1:32:13] [laughter]
[1:32:14] >> I will say for what it's worth if it is
[1:32:15] a if there is a scheduling conflict if
[1:32:17] that's the only item on the agenda you
[1:32:19] know if it is more convenient I mean you
[1:32:21] tell me otherwise but if it's also more
[1:32:23] convenient to bump that back to October
[1:32:25] and can't send the September meeting we
[1:32:26] could theoretically do that. So just in
[1:32:29] case someone has a conflict then we feel
[1:32:30] too bad.
[1:32:32] >> I'm okay.
[1:32:34] >> Okay.
[1:32:35] >> I'm also okay but I always like freeing
[1:32:36] up September. [laughter]
[1:32:39] >> All right. Well, Michael and I can talk
[1:32:40] about it and um you know, we'll go from
[1:32:42] there. So, and the other option as well
[1:32:44] is that [clears throat] you know, folks
[1:32:45] don't want to be in person, you know,
[1:32:46] it's a discussion that could easily be
[1:32:48] done.
[1:32:48] >> Will that be done at six or seven?
[1:32:52] >> Seven.
[1:32:53] >> Yeah.
[1:32:57] » Work.
[1:33:00] Okay. [laughter]
[1:33:02] All right. With that, nothing else on
[1:33:04] the agenda. I will entertain a motion.
[1:33:06] >> Make the motion to adjurnn. Second.
[1:33:09] Motion second. Any discussion? Hearing
[1:33:10] none. All in favor? All right. Thanks so
[1:33:14] much everybody.
[1:33:16] [clears throat]