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thanks just for the this session is
going to be on the city's website so it

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was useful to have this actually
recorded so those people who couldn't be

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in attendance tonight would still have
an opportunity of seeing what was going

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on
so what a city can and can't do this is

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part one of a four-part series uh before
we get going into earnest i know that

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counselor vasilakos is here and she was
just going to provide a little bit of

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context to the sessions and to this one
in particular tonight potentially

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counselor
good evening everyone i'm just on the

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behalf of uh mayor mathison and all of
city council i just want to welcome

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everyone to
to these sessions and um

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and hope that they are actually
useful and informative and engaging

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and i i think sort of some context for
me would be when i first ran for council

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i ran
for what i thought council did and i had

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some of it right and i had
some of it wrong but what i really

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didn't understand is how much we
couldn't do or couldn't control or

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wasn't within our purview and and the
realization that the public also didn't

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have a really strong sense of that and
so i i think i think this is a really

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great opportunity to have a review of
that and and and understand what we do

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and i i just one little anecdote of my
time on council it says who's driving

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the greater is ian's book
and

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um i think it's really interesting
because sometimes i'll get a phone call

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from someone in the public then they
think that i am in the office every day

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running the public works department
because i'm chair of infrastructure

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transportation and safety and little do
they know that i'm allowed in the public

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works yard building once a year
at christmas when they're having pizza

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and there's caution tape up and the
counselors are not allowed anywhere near

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the graders and so uh you know sort of
sort of this sort of conversation around

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who's driving the greater is i think a a
really good one because not only is

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who's driving it who's paying for it who
decide what kind of grader we want and

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what kind of work is the greater going
to do for you are all the kinds of

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things that i hope that this session
brings and um so thank you to ian and

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thank you to everyone who came tonight
and i hope you have a really great

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session in the next sessions as well
thanks counselor well i will get to the

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greater bit kind of a little bit in
earnest my style is trying to is

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interactive so
certainly we'll talk a little bit about

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this this of course as the counselor
um mentioned is part one of a four-part

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series and kudos to the city of
stratford for doing this the i haven't

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have run across an occurrence before of
a city

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of a city that is
willing to do this kind of information

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or education
globally for the public sometimes this

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runs it concurrently to things like
elections

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but sometimes it's just
it's just almost uh run there's an

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assumption if you like that people know
what cities do or what cities can't do

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and while i say cities i think we're
going to use the term we may use the

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term cities but it's more general in
terms of different types of local

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governments
so when mayor mathis and i started

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having a conversation about this
probably three four or five months ago

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and lauren mckinnon was part of that
conversation as well through wise

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communities
the idea came about

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frost for somebody who was independent
from the city who has done some work in

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a lot of work in this sphere in canada
to just provide a little bit of an

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overview respond to some questions if
there are some

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and see where that gets us in terms of
public education associated with local

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government in the canadian context in
ontario specifically

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so we broke it down into four sessions
the first one today is essentially just

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the role of local government in the
lives of the people who live in the

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community
the next one in a couple of weeks is

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role clarity so we'll speak specifically
at that time to the role of council the

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role of individual members of council
the role of the mayor administration and

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then management and service delivery as
well

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kind of who's responsible for what so
why it is that councillor vasilakos

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isn't allowed to drive the greater even
if she really wants to

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the third session will be on local
engagement uh communication and

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engagement we will touch on that a
little bit today as well but how the

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municipality interacts with the people
who live there is very important so we

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will spend a couple hours or one of our
sessions talking about that

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and then finally the last session about
a month and a half or two months from

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now a month and a half i guess we'll be
dealing with public finance

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specifically the sources of revenue that
are available to a municipality uh the

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kohl's notes version is there aren't
very many if you compare it to other

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orders of government or even the united
states uh local government united states

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the other end is where does how does
money get spent in terms of budgeting

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we'll speak to that a little bit later
on today again just to give you a bit of

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an overview
so the there's a note here about

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questions and comments because this is
on zoom first of all it's

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i'm not sure if it's sub-optimal it's
the best plan b we've got other than

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gathering around the table and having a
great conversation so please do put your

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hand up um
i'm on a relatively small screen here so

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i may not see a whole lot if you just
want to interrupt it somewhere dropping

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is not a great idea if you would like to
interject at some point and just for

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make a comment or ask a question please
by all means do that put your comments

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and questions in the chat it pops up
here on my screen and maybe as we break

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from section to section we'll i'll stop
at that

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i will also suggest that the slides here
are available on the city's website so

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now or later if you haven't already got
them you're welcome to have a copy of

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them some people often ask for that so
they'll be available there or they are

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available there

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so with that in mind so because we are
in the online environment we recognize

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it's not ideal so i often use the term
of asking each other for a little bit of

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extra grace and patience
as we work through all of this together

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the nice thing about local government
perhaps of their orders of government

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and the way it interacts with their
citizens is that we don't all think

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alike
so there are different ideas and

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different opinions and that space
in many ways is where value lies if

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we're looking to change things from the
way they are to some ideal future state

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it's only by challenging the status quo
looking for innovation and accepting

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risk that that actually happens and the
same thing goes for tonight too so if

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there are a controversial ideas or
contested ideas

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please bring them out
however if i do put a caveat to that if

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there are inappropriate comments that
come out i'll ask that person to refrain

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and if they don't refrain we i have the
ability to remove people from the

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session so just note that up front and
finally you all know i think that the

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session is being recorded and it'll be
available on the city's website if you

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want to have a look at it a little bit
later so this is your time i am here to

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provide a little bit of context some
overview some information and perhaps

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answer some of your questions as well i
will say though that while i know a

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little bit about stratford and its
recent history and its long history as

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well for that matter i'm not an expert
on that i'm an expert if you like on

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local government in canada
i'd like this to be more of a seminar

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than a lecture so i'd like to know your
thoughts as well i learn from these in

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the same way that other people do as
well we use a term quite often called

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good governance or great governance and
my take on that is if you're looking for

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the ideal future state for a local
government in canada or how a council

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works or how a council interacts with
the people who live in a place there are

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lots of ways to do that there's some
ways to do it really badly but there are

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also quite a lot of ways to do it really
well and so it's those roots up the

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mountain that we're looking at
we know my as a bit of a pollyanna i

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think the people bring their best to
local government and probably to other

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orders of government too you all have
chosen to live in stratfor you've chosen

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to move there remain there there's got
to be a reason for that you likely

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believe that that's the best place to
live

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and you're right and you want each other
to be successful in order for council to

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be successful the citizens the
organizations the businesses who live in

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stratfor need to be successful too and
the opposite is also true for them to be

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successful the council needs to be
successful as well

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and the final comment kind of reiterates
something i made a little while ago

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about let's have some interesting
conversation this evening so if you want

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to disagree with opinions and
interpretations please do

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a bit about me uh my as i mentioned my
name's ian mccormick my contact

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information is at the bottom of every
page and i've done that specifically and

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and generally so that if you have
questions that come after the session

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you have every opportunity to write down
my email address look up my website and

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phone number and if you want to give me
a call tomorrow or next week have a

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question about something please do i
really this is my area of passion and i

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love talking about it and speaking to
people who are engaged around the

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country about it so please reach out
after the fact if you like as well my

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company strategic steps has offices in
alberta and saskatchewan we say we

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operate in that space between elected
and appointed and so that's when we

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that's how we talk about governance so
it's the interaction between the two as

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they try as they make their communities
the best that they can be

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in terms of the specific things that we
often do it oftentimes depends on

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election cycles
so if we were to look at just a

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four-year election cycle we often do
things like candidate workshops to as

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counselor vasilakko said help people
understand what the role of counselor is

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before they hand in all their nomination
forms and sign ups for sign up for the

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job potentially for the next four years
we do a lot of orientations following

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the election so we did a bunch in
saskatchewan last year because that was

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their election time we'll do a bunch in
alberta this year because it's their

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election time so it's just cyclical we
do a lot of strategic planning for

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municipalities we're off to
prince george bc next week to work with

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them and prince albert saskatchewan i
think the week after that so a lot of

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governance work there
if we do we do reviews of organizations

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or municipalities that aren't working
terribly well sometimes so a governance

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review or organizational review trying
to get the animal pointed in the right

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direction and if sometimes if there are
code of conduct reviews to be done

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across the country there are different
ways of dealing with council code of

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conduct complaints some like you have
specific people named to do that in

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other parts of the country they don't
even require code of conduct

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legislation or bylaws so it kind of runs
the full gamut

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i do quite a lot of speaking and writing
for the saskatchewan urban

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municipalities association i write a
column in all of their

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called governance voice i've done some
writing for municipal world which is

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canada's national magazine
the councillor referenced my book who's

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driving the greater which was published
last fall and it speaks to the

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difference between governance and
management or governance and

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administration
it's that's actually the link that uh i

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got involved with stratford from with
lorena and with the mayor having read it

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and then reaching out to me i also have
another book coming out shortly on the

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aptitudes of the best mayors i've
interviewed about a dozen mayors from

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across the country and actually one in
australia as well looking at the

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principles of what makes a good mayor
we're calling it the dna of great

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leaders at the moment so we're looking
at mayors and probably a plot well it

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will apply to other leaders as well in
terms of what i've seen is kind of the

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three ways that leadership works you
need to come into the position with

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personal aptitudes that make it
appropriate to you some people are good

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at this type of a role and for some
people it's the last thing they would

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ever want to do so they have those
personal attitudes coming in

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they're often community leaders from way
back when they were on the library board

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or a recreation board or
part of a church group or a cancer

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charity and have led the community for a
long time so that's when that's where

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they come in and finally there are some
technical pieces to this too to being a

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great leader
and those are the skills that you can

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learn
so you have those personal aptitudes you

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grow the community leadership and you
can develop governance skills so that's

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what's coming up
so we have nearly 40 people in here at

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the moment and i wondered about posing a
few questions right off the bat just

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looking at this if there would be two or
three people on each one of these who

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might be offer what you think the best
thing that the city does or provides for

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you and your family what would you
change potentially about how stratford

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works
and i've given you my two cents worth

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about what i think greater good
governance is and what does that mean to

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you
and just a more general question over

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the course of the four series four
recessions if you attend them all do you

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have some hopes that come out of that
so if i can't just start at the top and

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i can't see very many of you on my
screen is there anybody who would like

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to offer why what it is that makes
stratfor so great

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somebody must think it's pretty good

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well this could be a shot
please do lorena

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i mean for me i love the scale of the
the city and the diversity of it i'd

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love the diversity of the people
and the the businesses the enterprises

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that are here uh the physical the
physicality of the city is very very

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beautiful
and that goes back to the scale that you

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can really walk a lot of the city
and it's very uh accessible that way so

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for me um i grew up in a small community
in manitoba and this is this city

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actually reminds me of a lot of that
that it's a it's an intimate but it's a

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diverse city
thanks there's uh somebody in the chat

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who said that um the best service bar
known as the stratford public library

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the only service without extra user fees
so i i am a former library board chair

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and library trustee for 12 years myself
so i was in a public library so i would

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i would certainly echo ken's comments
there anybody else want to jump in here

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tori you're unmuted

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that's on purpose

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um
i'm j marie and um i think that there's

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lots of um
diversity and different interests and we

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have an awful lot of um
groups

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no matter what your interest is there's
going to be other people that have the

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same
and um

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so we have lots of of groups and they do
lots of things in the city

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thank you
anybody else

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yeah this is david niece
uh i

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i think most people would agree that the
quality of life here

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is very very high
because

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we have a small compact city
surrounded by a very

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intensive and successful agricultural
community

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and the city is very diverse in terms of
its economic makeup

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and
it offers a tremendous

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appeal to people who come from other
larger communities where the urban

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density is
much higher and uh

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where they feel that their uh
their needs are may be met but they're

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mad here in stratford in a way that is
a lot more accommodating

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and it's a very attractive place for
people to settle particularly in their

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retirement period

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thank you well i am uh i'm an apprentice
retiree myself i'm working hard towards

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getting there
is the is there anything anybody else

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wants to add there i'll just move on to
the next question

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jamie

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yes can you hear me i can hear you go
ahead

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okay yes i think stratford is uh is a
relatively very safe community for for

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people to live
um it does have that industry arts

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and uh culture
and the good mix of agriculture and with

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that and i think that gives it a very
healthy

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diverse economy but also a very diverse
culture and uh it does

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maintain somewhat of a small town feel i
like to i like to bike it's very easy

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to access most corners of the city
through uh through maine's other than a

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car right so it's pedestrian it's
relatively pedestrian bike friendly and

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it just it has a sense of scale
that feels very human as opposed to some

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of the larger cities when i go there
just the scale of it it seems to lose a

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little bit

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okay
thanks very much

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00:17:10,079 --> 00:17:16,240
uh let's move on are there things that
you would change just a couple minutes

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on this i've got a note here just from
ken again saying he would he would like

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fewer but full-time city councillors
representation by the five hamlets

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rather than at large so word or division
based

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and then ranked ballots it says quality
of life is high for maybe half the city

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and some other pieces there about
housing and wages

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torrey says combination we have in
stratford from ranging from our festival

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to our numerous sporting opportunities
gives us many amenities of a large city

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while living in the comforts of a small
city makes it a place that offers the

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best of all worlds
ken notes there's a high percentage of

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seniors many transferred their wealth
here so they can do well mark says it's

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family friendly
you guys should just write the vision

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statement for the city or the motto for
the city

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what would you change if anything about
the city

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anybody

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00:18:13,280 --> 00:18:18,160
you can come back to that if you like so
the last i'm going to skip over the good

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covenants just so we can keep going on
this but what do you want to get from

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this series so when the city decided to
organize where council decided to

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organize this series
they were interested in providing

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information to the public but i suspect
that there are people here in the public

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who would like to get something specific
out of it

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so ken i think it said earlier too it's
nice to have this sort of thing happen

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not during an election where was that
it's a nice lead into budget discussions

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2022.
always been disappointed in how few

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citizens got involved in pre-budget and
how so many more complain after the fact

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so with that in mind oops where are we
now

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yeah
what do you want to get from the series

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what can i uh help provide you provide
you other than what i've already kind of

278
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told you about in outline anything
specific

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well if nobody has anything that's an
expectation i can meet

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i'm going to move on and we'll see where
we end up if you have other things you

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00:19:18,080 --> 00:19:23,679
want to say please do
so the first piece we're going to talk

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about is kind of council's oversight
role some of you have already referenced

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council and we're going to speak to them
of course because they are the kind of

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the titular head of the organization if
you like just a couple of notes here

285
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about what people want to see and those
couple things show up in chat

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00:19:36,480 --> 00:19:42,799
mandatory voting it's it is very rare
for the mayor city council who has to

287
00:19:41,120 --> 00:19:46,960
have the support of constituencies
constituents sorry

288
00:19:44,320 --> 00:19:50,400
often 10 to 20 support so how legitimate
are the decisions that they make not

289
00:19:48,880 --> 00:19:54,240
sure if that's rhetorical or not
somebody said i would like to city to

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00:19:52,080 --> 00:19:57,280
take a proactive approach to interacting
with citizens

291
00:19:55,600 --> 00:20:00,640
so that's tori nike we're starting that
right now

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00:19:58,480 --> 00:20:04,000
bill said i'd like to change i like i
would change the relationship between

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00:20:02,400 --> 00:20:06,799
city hall and the community the
engagement

294
00:20:05,120 --> 00:20:11,039
moving from the occasional problem or
issue prompted consultation to a steady

295
00:20:09,280 --> 00:20:15,039
regular engagement is an ongoing
conversation

296
00:20:13,600 --> 00:20:20,640
somebody else said about the meetings
how to most efficiently and effectively

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00:20:16,880 --> 00:20:24,320
effect change that's very alliterative
ken suggested i forgot to mention term

298
00:20:22,559 --> 00:20:28,320
limits for elected positions too many
there for the past and can't see the

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00:20:26,400 --> 00:20:32,159
future i'm gonna leave it at that and
move on and if there are more we'll look

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00:20:30,240 --> 00:20:35,280
at that at the next great next break in
next tight type of break in the in our

301
00:20:34,159 --> 00:20:39,520
session here
i will say too that term limits come up

302
00:20:38,000 --> 00:20:42,400
a lot and
right across the country so it's not

303
00:20:40,880 --> 00:20:46,559
just you
it's one of those things however we will

304
00:20:44,880 --> 00:20:50,559
deal with when we talk about which order
of government actually has authority to

305
00:20:48,240 --> 00:20:54,240
do what and in actual fact local
government has no authority to set term

306
00:20:52,320 --> 00:20:57,919
limits so a counselor could conceivably
come into office on a platform that i'm

307
00:20:55,919 --> 00:21:01,679
going to stay here for two two terms or
whatever and we're going to change it

308
00:20:59,600 --> 00:21:05,200
bylaw and mandate term limits but they
can't do it

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00:21:03,679 --> 00:21:08,640
it would contradict the canadian
constitution and

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somebody would likely challenge it we'll
get to that a little bit later

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00:21:11,039 --> 00:21:16,640
so if we think about kind of why council
is here

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00:21:15,280 --> 00:21:20,799
if there was nobody who lived in the
geographical area that is now stratfor

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00:21:18,799 --> 00:21:24,320
there will be no need for an oversight
body which is council and there'll be no

314
00:21:22,799 --> 00:21:27,679
need for a city manager in a rec
department and occult and cultural

315
00:21:25,679 --> 00:21:31,760
groups because nobody be here but they
are and you've all said why you like

316
00:21:29,520 --> 00:21:34,320
stratford and i suspect there are other
reasons that other people would provide

317
00:21:33,200 --> 00:21:38,480
as well
so if we think about that council is not

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00:21:36,480 --> 00:21:42,559
looking after the day-to-day of the city
because they've hired people to do that

319
00:21:40,000 --> 00:21:46,240
to pick up the garbage and put on
community service programs and those

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00:21:44,000 --> 00:21:49,840
sorts of things so council is there to
steer the ship in the long term they're

321
00:21:48,640 --> 00:21:53,360
looking
kind of maybe a generation into the

322
00:21:51,440 --> 00:21:55,440
future about what does stratford look
like

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00:21:54,159 --> 00:21:58,720
sometimes i say what does stratfor look
like when it's grown up or when it's

324
00:21:56,720 --> 00:22:02,480
completely successful or when you can
imagine far enough down the road that

325
00:22:00,799 --> 00:22:06,159
you're probably still living here but
members of council have probably

326
00:22:04,000 --> 00:22:09,679
completely changed so that's the ideal
future state and that's what they're

327
00:22:07,440 --> 00:22:13,200
working towards so when they look that
far out they can look at this four-year

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00:22:11,919 --> 00:22:16,559
term that they're there or the eight
years or twelve years that they happen

329
00:22:14,640 --> 00:22:20,559
to serve or whatever it might be
and say what am i going to do over this

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00:22:18,080 --> 00:22:23,280
term to help us get from here to there
so from that they set a vision for the

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00:22:22,080 --> 00:22:27,360
community and a mission for the
community and a set of values for the

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community and that sort of thing and
they will work on designing that plan

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00:22:30,080 --> 00:22:34,960
that gets us from here to a generation
from now with fighting off the next four

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00:22:33,919 --> 00:22:38,559
years
and then we'll have a look at who

335
00:22:36,480 --> 00:22:42,400
benefits from that are we looking at
collective benefit for everybody who

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00:22:40,240 --> 00:22:46,000
lives in stratfor are we looking for the
benefit of people in the small

337
00:22:43,840 --> 00:22:49,919
geographical area of stratford because
there's a necessity there for example

338
00:22:48,480 --> 00:22:54,480
maybe all the
water mains are made of wood in part of

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00:22:52,080 --> 00:22:58,400
town and i have run across that so just
part of town needs a lot of money spent

340
00:22:56,240 --> 00:23:01,600
in it so that takes away from things
that could be elsewhere because there's

341
00:22:59,840 --> 00:23:06,000
still only a hundred percent of dollars
to be spent uh municipal governments

342
00:23:04,000 --> 00:23:08,960
don't borrow and can't don't sorry don't
borrow as much as other orders of

343
00:23:07,360 --> 00:23:13,520
government and has significant
restrictions on their budgeting in terms

344
00:23:10,640 --> 00:23:17,039
of balanced budgets as well so
different affordability

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00:23:15,200 --> 00:23:20,159
we look at who's going to benefit so i
just mentioned that the precedence of

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00:23:18,640 --> 00:23:24,240
the individual or the collective i think
we're seeing that too with canada's

347
00:23:22,000 --> 00:23:27,520
federal election at the moment about the
parties who are running

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00:23:25,919 --> 00:23:32,000
some of the parties further to the right
of the conservatives for example are

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00:23:29,520 --> 00:23:35,520
pushing uh individual freedom or
responsibility that kind of thing but

350
00:23:34,000 --> 00:23:39,440
people live together in community and
there's a cost to that so people if they

351
00:23:37,919 --> 00:23:43,279
wanted to have absolute freedom i
suppose they could go live

352
00:23:40,960 --> 00:23:47,120
live in the bush someplace but we don't
we live in community so we're looking at

353
00:23:45,279 --> 00:23:51,279
collective benefit
and finally here in order for this to

354
00:23:48,960 --> 00:23:53,919
work and not not to go off madly off in
all directions

355
00:23:52,559 --> 00:23:58,480
we i
promote what i call cascading alignment

356
00:23:56,400 --> 00:24:01,279
so if you have an idea of what the city
is successful

357
00:23:59,840 --> 00:24:04,799
the ultimate vision of success for the
city is in a generation

358
00:24:03,039 --> 00:24:07,440
and we're working on it from now until
then

359
00:24:05,600 --> 00:24:11,440
we can actually start thinking about
what what adds value where are our

360
00:24:09,679 --> 00:24:14,159
priorities and so we can fund some
things that are important to us

361
00:24:12,559 --> 00:24:18,080
recognizing that not everything is going
to get funded

362
00:24:15,440 --> 00:24:22,880
not only that everything that gets added
to a city is a political

363
00:24:21,039 --> 00:24:26,720
decision anything that gets changed is a
political decision and everything that

364
00:24:24,240 --> 00:24:30,320
gets removed is a political decision an
example of that we see and i would be

365
00:24:28,720 --> 00:24:34,799
surprised if you do too
is the recent prominence of pickleball

366
00:24:33,440 --> 00:24:38,559
it's a small thing but a lot of people
used to play tennis they don't play as

367
00:24:36,880 --> 00:24:42,080
much anymore and now there are more
people who play pickleball so some

368
00:24:40,400 --> 00:24:45,440
municipalities have been converting
tennis courts into pickleball courts as

369
00:24:43,679 --> 00:24:49,440
well as building some new ones
but originally the decision about tennis

370
00:24:47,760 --> 00:24:53,520
was to build those courts and that was a
political decision to met a client it

371
00:24:51,600 --> 00:24:56,960
met a need of citizens
but now it's not so much necessary

372
00:24:55,520 --> 00:25:01,120
anymore so rather than building a bunch
of new courts we're converting existing

373
00:24:59,440 --> 00:25:04,720
tennis into pickleball and that's a
political decision too because there's

374
00:25:03,200 --> 00:25:08,000
still a group of people who like tennis
anyway the point being there that there

375
00:25:06,480 --> 00:25:13,600
are scarce resources and you're trying
to apply them the best way that you can

376
00:25:11,360 --> 00:25:18,640
when we i think i think about priorities
as well so if you have 100 of resources

377
00:25:16,320 --> 00:25:22,480
to spend as a municipality and resources
in this case can be people it can be

378
00:25:20,480 --> 00:25:25,120
time it can be money it can be political
capital culture all those sorts of

379
00:25:24,240 --> 00:25:28,559
things
and you're putting them to the best

380
00:25:26,720 --> 00:25:34,000
highest and best use
in this case i look at priority as a

381
00:25:31,200 --> 00:25:37,440
matrix of timeliness and important so
something that's neither timely nor

382
00:25:35,520 --> 00:25:40,880
important is really not a high priority
something that is both timely and

383
00:25:38,960 --> 00:25:44,480
important is a high priority and these
things will change over time they'll

384
00:25:42,880 --> 00:25:49,360
change over the course of a four-year
term for example i suspect councillor

385
00:25:46,799 --> 00:25:52,960
vasilakos and her her colleagues never
got elected expecting to have to deal

386
00:25:50,960 --> 00:25:57,039
with coving but all of a sudden they had
to and then you end up moving into

387
00:25:54,640 --> 00:26:00,320
crisis management mode other things have
happened to both other orders of

388
00:25:58,640 --> 00:26:02,799
government having downloading for
example or

389
00:26:01,440 --> 00:26:06,799
federal government decisions that have
an impact on local governments across

390
00:26:04,880 --> 00:26:11,440
the country that they have to deal with
and so they have to start understanding

391
00:26:09,360 --> 00:26:15,360
or not start they have to understand as
council the city but it can't be all

392
00:26:13,360 --> 00:26:20,080
things to all people what it is that
makes stratford unique

393
00:26:17,600 --> 00:26:23,360
i guess just by default would mean that
me here in melville saskatchewan isn't

394
00:26:22,159 --> 00:26:27,200
stratford because they choose a
different slightly different boot up

395
00:26:24,960 --> 00:26:30,960
bill of great governance as with every
other community in this country

396
00:26:29,279 --> 00:26:34,480
and because you've got limited funding
you put it to what's important some

397
00:26:32,720 --> 00:26:39,679
municipality a lot of municipalities are
using something called priority based

398
00:26:36,080 --> 00:26:43,279
fund priority budgeting or pvb
now

399
00:26:40,720 --> 00:26:47,279
and it talks about let's identify all
the services and programs the city

400
00:26:44,960 --> 00:26:51,120
offers and let's orderly rank them on an
annual basis or a quadrennial basis and

401
00:26:49,520 --> 00:26:55,840
we'll put money to the highest order
things and those things which nobody

402
00:26:53,200 --> 00:27:00,640
uses anymore kind of fall off the bottom
example of this working in a small town

403
00:26:58,000 --> 00:27:04,400
in in rural alberta they had still have
horse pitching posts on main street and

404
00:27:02,960 --> 00:27:07,919
they were still getting funded but
nobody remembers the last time anybody

405
00:27:06,080 --> 00:27:12,720
actually hitched a horse to main street
so that examined life well lived is

406
00:27:10,000 --> 00:27:16,159
something that they're after
when i think about why people run for

407
00:27:15,120 --> 00:27:19,279
office
i i

408
00:27:17,520 --> 00:27:23,039
might this is explained in more detail
in my book and it talks about a

409
00:27:20,799 --> 00:27:27,039
continuum of service i believe that
people are elected to office or run for

410
00:27:25,200 --> 00:27:30,000
office i guess whether they get elected
is up to the up to the citizens of

411
00:27:28,960 --> 00:27:33,200
voters
they run either because they're

412
00:27:31,440 --> 00:27:37,600
interested in public service or they're
interested in self-service they either

413
00:27:35,440 --> 00:27:41,120
want to tell people what to do or they
want to go out and listen to what people

414
00:27:38,880 --> 00:27:44,399
want and help them help them achieve
that and i think that's part of those

415
00:27:42,720 --> 00:27:48,320
personal attributes that i mentioned a
little while ago as well so i don't

416
00:27:46,399 --> 00:27:51,600
think there's anybody at complete ends
of the spectrum there's no complete

417
00:27:50,080 --> 00:27:55,760
altruist who is there just for the
public good and i don't think there are

418
00:27:53,600 --> 00:27:59,440
terribly many machiavellians at the
other end who are just in there for

419
00:27:57,440 --> 00:28:02,320
their own their own benefit in the long
term

420
00:28:00,320 --> 00:28:06,399
and when i think about the attributes
that they bring to offices city council

421
00:28:04,640 --> 00:28:09,039
there's half a dozen of these attributes
from motivation all the way down to

422
00:28:07,919 --> 00:28:11,760
results
and

423
00:28:10,000 --> 00:28:17,039
through this continuum
then the attributes have an impact i'm

424
00:28:14,159 --> 00:28:17,039
just going to meet

425
00:28:24,799 --> 00:28:29,919
okay so anyway there are these
attributes here and if you want to have

426
00:28:28,000 --> 00:28:32,640
a look at the slides and have a longer
greater discussion about them we

427
00:28:31,279 --> 00:28:35,760
absolutely can
but if you look at people who are

428
00:28:34,000 --> 00:28:40,080
running for office or even people who
are serving in office now whether it's

429
00:28:37,279 --> 00:28:43,360
in stratford or whether it's your local
or national representatives or somewhere

430
00:28:41,840 --> 00:28:46,559
else as well
where do you think the people you're

431
00:28:44,480 --> 00:28:49,120
dealing with actually sit on the scale
and they're going to be somewhere

432
00:28:47,600 --> 00:28:52,720
between here and it's quite healthy for
a council to have a mix of people you

433
00:28:51,120 --> 00:28:56,240
don't want the pure public service and
you certainly don't want the pure

434
00:28:53,919 --> 00:28:59,360
self-service but you want a team that is
kind of the highest

435
00:28:57,760 --> 00:29:03,760
has the highest level of attributes that
you can get in these in these areas

436
00:29:02,159 --> 00:29:06,960
so that's the piece that i was just
going to talk to you very briefly about

437
00:29:05,360 --> 00:29:10,480
council's oversight role if we get into
what the city actually can't do a bunch

438
00:29:09,039 --> 00:29:12,559
of people put some stuff in the chat
here i'm just going gonna have a quick

439
00:29:11,440 --> 00:29:16,799
look through it and see if there's
anything

440
00:29:13,600 --> 00:29:16,799
we should have a look at

441
00:29:19,120 --> 00:29:24,399
from limits bringing so
in some of the section market said

442
00:29:22,960 --> 00:29:27,440
bringing many different kinds of people
to the table for healthy and respectful

443
00:29:26,159 --> 00:29:29,840
dialogue i think we just had a bit of a
conversation about that we'll get into

444
00:29:28,720 --> 00:29:33,200
that a little bit more when we talk
about engagement

445
00:29:31,279 --> 00:29:36,960
i would love to see an easy to use
approach says tori to letting citizens

446
00:29:35,200 --> 00:29:42,480
know what's going on in our city and how
they can get involved more engagement

447
00:29:40,480 --> 00:29:46,720
count ken says council is here frankly
to simply approve what staff tells them

448
00:29:44,480 --> 00:29:49,679
to do they defer to staff in my opinion
way too much

449
00:29:48,000 --> 00:29:53,760
in my experience about three foreign
council listen to citizens and either

450
00:29:51,679 --> 00:29:57,200
bring up concerns at meetings or get
answers to questions that leaves about

451
00:29:55,520 --> 00:30:01,039
seven who basically vote and shoot from
the hip ken we'll get into that a little

452
00:29:58,960 --> 00:30:04,559
bit later too because sometimes one of
the principles i find is where you stand

453
00:30:02,799 --> 00:30:08,640
depends on where you sit
and things change between when you're

454
00:30:06,559 --> 00:30:11,600
elected and sorry between when you're
running for office and when you're

455
00:30:09,520 --> 00:30:15,039
elected so i certainly don't dispute
your comment in some cases but i think

456
00:30:13,360 --> 00:30:18,960
there are some there's some rationale to
it too

457
00:30:16,559 --> 00:30:22,799
uh it uh i think it's alex says in
ontario the municipal election act does

458
00:30:20,559 --> 00:30:27,360
allow a musical clerk to make a change
if that change ie term limits is

459
00:30:24,799 --> 00:30:30,640
desirable or necessary i'll have to look
into that

460
00:30:28,720 --> 00:30:34,240
someone said ken said representatives
voted in should be there to represent

461
00:30:32,320 --> 00:30:39,200
the cumulative majority values of their
constituents the long-term view improved

462
00:30:36,640 --> 00:30:42,799
quality of life so with this ken
somewhere a little bit later i'd like to

463
00:30:40,320 --> 00:30:45,840
comment on this so what about the
concept of short-term pain for long-term

464
00:30:44,720 --> 00:30:49,679
gain
if you have a city council who realizes

465
00:30:48,399 --> 00:30:54,159
that in order for something good to
happen five years from now something bad

466
00:30:52,000 --> 00:30:58,320
i mean that's kind of parochial has to
happen now

467
00:30:55,440 --> 00:31:02,640
if we're always voting in the
direct accumulative majority values you

468
00:31:00,480 --> 00:31:05,760
end up with a populist government and
populists seem to be really good at

469
00:31:04,240 --> 00:31:08,880
short term and not very good at long
term and certainly respond to that a

470
00:31:07,440 --> 00:31:12,880
little bit later
someone suggested that city could hold

471
00:31:11,039 --> 00:31:16,640
referendums and change the election
process which requires agreement at the

472
00:31:14,640 --> 00:31:20,640
provincial level fair enough
smart clear referendums reasons why

473
00:31:18,960 --> 00:31:25,600
people run an election to be viewed as
popular to hold higher status the

474
00:31:23,200 --> 00:31:30,000
part-time easy money to try and affect
change advocate for a particular lobby

475
00:31:27,919 --> 00:31:33,679
group and to challenge themselves
you might be right on some of those for

476
00:31:31,360 --> 00:31:36,720
sure that so what you have described in
many ways i think of those people who

477
00:31:35,120 --> 00:31:40,399
are the self-service people rather than
the community service or public service

478
00:31:38,399 --> 00:31:43,600
people and certainly would be interested
in hearing from you a little bit more of

479
00:31:41,919 --> 00:31:47,360
that so those are some comments that
i've just seen in the chat they're just

480
00:31:45,600 --> 00:31:50,559
on this council oversight piece and are
about to move on into city role does

481
00:31:49,279 --> 00:31:54,159
anybody who's
who's verbally on here want to have a

482
00:31:52,240 --> 00:31:58,200
comment or ask a question about the
stuff that they've seen so far

483
00:32:00,480 --> 00:32:06,320
as a consultant i'm taught to give five
seconds before i move on so

484
00:32:04,480 --> 00:32:09,519
please if anybody does have something
they want to add in i'm i'm more than

485
00:32:07,679 --> 00:32:13,840
happy to respond as well
so what the city can and can't do is the

486
00:32:11,519 --> 00:32:16,720
piece we're going to deal with right now
you likely know this but we're going to

487
00:32:15,279 --> 00:32:19,679
start with a bit of the kohl's notes
version

488
00:32:17,919 --> 00:32:22,159
about the four orders of government in
canada

489
00:32:20,880 --> 00:32:25,039
federal government of course we're on
the middle of an election they're

490
00:32:23,519 --> 00:32:29,679
looking after things which are pan
canadian so coast to coast to coast

491
00:32:27,120 --> 00:32:34,000
areas of interest or in some cases they
focus in a particular area if they see a

492
00:32:31,840 --> 00:32:37,840
particular area needs help whether it's
crisis management

493
00:32:35,760 --> 00:32:41,919
disaster services that sort of thing
whether it needs specific economic

494
00:32:39,519 --> 00:32:46,320
uplift or assistance or whether things
have to change in a particular area so

495
00:32:44,000 --> 00:32:49,679
examples of things the feds do of course
i've mentioned some of these pan

496
00:32:47,440 --> 00:32:54,080
canadian things like immigration
like put the postal service

497
00:32:51,679 --> 00:32:59,919
national defense and i put health in
here even though i think all four orders

498
00:32:57,279 --> 00:33:03,679
of government have a peace in health but
national health policy the canada health

499
00:33:02,000 --> 00:33:07,120
act for example
is under the authority of the feds

500
00:33:05,919 --> 00:33:11,440
if we look at the provinces and
territories which are established via

501
00:33:08,960 --> 00:33:14,640
the constitution and then potentially
changes the constitution a little bit

502
00:33:13,120 --> 00:33:18,960
these are obviously the geographically
constrained areas so this part of the

503
00:33:16,480 --> 00:33:22,240
country now most of our i think anyway
most of our state states most of our

504
00:33:21,120 --> 00:33:27,679
provinces
is the same size as some a lot of the

505
00:33:24,640 --> 00:33:30,960
smaller uh states in the in the world so
there's geographically anyway even if we

506
00:33:29,360 --> 00:33:34,320
don't have the population
and areas that they typically look at

507
00:33:33,120 --> 00:33:37,039
there's a full list if you look at the
list of ministries on the government of

508
00:33:35,919 --> 00:33:40,880
ontario
or

509
00:33:38,000 --> 00:33:45,279
territory things like labor that labor
labor policy they look at energy as do

510
00:33:43,519 --> 00:33:48,720
provinces in some ways the one that
we're most interested in tonight is

511
00:33:46,960 --> 00:33:53,279
municipal affairs
and and education is primarily a

512
00:33:51,120 --> 00:33:57,600
responsibility of the province
or territory and finally we're going to

513
00:33:55,519 --> 00:34:01,200
look a lot more into the areas of local
interest so local governments rural and

514
00:34:00,000 --> 00:34:05,519
urban local governments we're going to
concentrate primarily on urban local

515
00:34:03,200 --> 00:34:07,840
governments and on stratford in
particular

516
00:34:06,559 --> 00:34:13,040
and then the fourth order being
indigenous government with the first

517
00:34:10,000 --> 00:34:17,280
nations many anyway all of which have an
impact right across the country some of

518
00:34:14,720 --> 00:34:21,839
which are under under terror under sorry
treaty a lot of a lot of geographical

519
00:34:19,440 --> 00:34:25,280
area which is not so we're seeing things
like self-government and truth and

520
00:34:23,280 --> 00:34:29,119
reconciliation obviously now with things
like residential schools

521
00:34:27,200 --> 00:34:31,760
over the last little while too
the note to this is that all these

522
00:34:30,639 --> 00:34:36,000
orders of government have to work
together if we're going to have a

523
00:34:33,119 --> 00:34:40,320
successful society so if we look at the
nat about nashville

524
00:34:38,000 --> 00:34:45,440
here the national government
had created the constitution in 1867

525
00:34:42,720 --> 00:34:49,679
with the constitution act was modified
again in the 1980s when it was actually

526
00:34:47,040 --> 00:34:54,560
repatriated back to canada and under the
constitution there's no mention of

527
00:34:52,000 --> 00:34:59,040
municipalities as specific order a
specific order of government all the

528
00:34:56,480 --> 00:35:02,560
constitution says is that anything to do
with local government belongs to the

529
00:35:00,240 --> 00:35:07,599
provinces and territories so the section
92 which is in here just talks about a

530
00:35:05,520 --> 00:35:11,760
list of things that the provinces can do
or responsible for number eight on that

531
00:35:09,920 --> 00:35:15,440
list is municipal institutions and
provinces and then territories so it's

532
00:35:13,760 --> 00:35:19,280
not even
not even really recognized as an

533
00:35:17,359 --> 00:35:23,040
order of government
for in

534
00:35:20,640 --> 00:35:26,720
in practicality what that means is every
province and territory deals with local

535
00:35:24,640 --> 00:35:31,359
government in a slightly different way
you have for example the municipal

536
00:35:28,880 --> 00:35:35,119
municipal act municipalities act
other in other parts of country those

537
00:35:33,440 --> 00:35:39,760
things are called different things in
saskatchewan for example they have the

538
00:35:37,440 --> 00:35:44,400
cities act in the northwest territories
they have the hamlets act

539
00:35:41,920 --> 00:35:48,960
in alberta they have the
municipal municipal government act

540
00:35:46,880 --> 00:35:52,160
they're all different across the country
so the understanding of local government

541
00:35:51,040 --> 00:35:56,720
in one part of the country is not the
same elsewhere as an example of that

542
00:35:54,320 --> 00:36:01,119
counties have different terminology in
ontario than they would in alberta

543
00:35:59,040 --> 00:36:04,960
bc has something called a rural sorry a
regional municipality

544
00:36:03,200 --> 00:36:09,520
manitoba saskatchewan has something
called a rural municipality so there are

545
00:36:07,440 --> 00:36:13,520
different bits and pieces that make up
local government around the country

546
00:36:11,839 --> 00:36:17,680
even though some of the principles end
up fairly similar the actual way it's

547
00:36:15,280 --> 00:36:22,240
carried out is different so comparing a
town or a city in ontario to a town or

548
00:36:20,160 --> 00:36:25,920
city somewhere else in the country is
well it's not comparing apples and

549
00:36:23,839 --> 00:36:29,280
oranges it's kind of like comparing
golden delicious apples to red delicious

550
00:36:27,920 --> 00:36:32,960
apples
as an example of

551
00:36:31,040 --> 00:36:37,359
cities
i have different numbers of people which

552
00:36:35,200 --> 00:36:41,200
are required in alberta to be a city you
need 10 000 people minimum i'm in

553
00:36:39,760 --> 00:36:45,680
saskatchewan in the moment at the moment
in the city of melville which has 4 500

554
00:36:43,520 --> 00:36:49,680
people so their rules are different too
and within that of course there are

555
00:36:47,520 --> 00:36:54,560
other uh specific attributes that are
provided to local government in some

556
00:36:52,160 --> 00:36:58,560
states or some provinces and territories
that aren't the same right across the

557
00:36:56,000 --> 00:37:01,760
country so the my point here is if you
were dealing with something like a

558
00:36:59,599 --> 00:37:05,119
federation of canadian municipalities
it's not the same from coast to coast to

559
00:37:03,520 --> 00:37:08,720
coast but they're all governed by the
constitution which essentially just says

560
00:37:07,040 --> 00:37:12,160
here provinces and territories you set
up the rules for municipalities

561
00:37:10,800 --> 00:37:16,160
so here if we look at the relevant
legislation you've got the constitution

562
00:37:14,240 --> 00:37:21,839
which is the same right across the coast
in coast to coast to coast we've got the

563
00:37:19,520 --> 00:37:26,720
municipal act in ontario and all
municipal acts will do the first thing

564
00:37:23,760 --> 00:37:32,240
here it will establish municipalities
and within the idea of establishing

565
00:37:28,960 --> 00:37:37,119
municipalities it creates municipalities
it could dissolve municipalities

566
00:37:34,880 --> 00:37:40,320
it deals with inter-municipal
collaboration if you like in terms of

567
00:37:38,720 --> 00:37:44,640
annex or maybe it's not not
collaboration but annexation or

568
00:37:42,480 --> 00:37:47,200
amalgamation potentially would be in
those acts as well so municipal

569
00:37:46,160 --> 00:37:50,560
structures
there was a case in not case there was

570
00:37:49,520 --> 00:37:54,720
in
manitoba a few years ago five or six

571
00:37:52,480 --> 00:37:57,839
years ago where the loca the provincial
government in manitoba thought there

572
00:37:56,079 --> 00:38:01,920
were too many municipal governments
really small unsustainable ones

573
00:38:00,079 --> 00:38:05,680
and they said hey everybody every
municipality go find a dance partner or

574
00:38:04,000 --> 00:38:08,160
two until you can get your population up
to a thousand people

575
00:38:07,119 --> 00:38:11,839
and that's going to be your new
municipal size and if you don't find

576
00:38:09,599 --> 00:38:16,400
your dance partner we'll do it for you
so they have almost arbitrarily or

577
00:38:14,320 --> 00:38:21,520
artificially made their municipalities
more sustainable by making them bigger

578
00:38:18,320 --> 00:38:25,200
and therefore by making fewer of them
i mean as mentioned in saskatchewan at

579
00:38:23,200 --> 00:38:29,359
the moment they have i think 350
municipalities in saskatchewan with a

580
00:38:27,040 --> 00:38:32,560
population just over a million people
so you can see that some of them are

581
00:38:30,480 --> 00:38:36,640
really really tiny
different places to places

582
00:38:34,640 --> 00:38:39,599
your municipal act also talks about what
higher and lower order municipalities

583
00:38:38,560 --> 00:38:43,839
can do
higher just in terms of the the rules

584
00:38:42,160 --> 00:38:47,359
that they
that they operate by the services they

585
00:38:45,599 --> 00:38:51,839
offer those sorts of things
and it talks about councils

586
00:38:49,520 --> 00:38:56,960
every municipal act across the country's
councils but it tends to provide just a

587
00:38:54,079 --> 00:39:00,960
skeleton of that about a default number
if you like a number of people on a

588
00:38:59,119 --> 00:39:04,880
council whether council can change that
number by themselves or not requiring

589
00:39:03,440 --> 00:39:08,800
meeting rules and decision-making
authority things like the ability to

590
00:39:06,640 --> 00:39:13,839
create bylaws and policies and other
pieces too some municipa some provincial

591
00:39:11,440 --> 00:39:18,240
governments say you must have a chief
administrative officer or cao others are

592
00:39:16,160 --> 00:39:21,440
silent on that so they're different from
place to place

593
00:39:19,520 --> 00:39:25,119
in a lot of places if you take all the
municipal acts so if you went to places

594
00:39:23,760 --> 00:39:29,599
like the northwest territories which
actually has three municipal acts two or

595
00:39:27,520 --> 00:39:33,599
three i think the yellowknife act city
stand villages and hamlets

596
00:39:32,000 --> 00:39:38,079
if you went to those places you would
find that these acts are typically one

597
00:39:36,079 --> 00:39:41,920
of the two or three largest acts in the
province or territory and that's because

598
00:39:40,320 --> 00:39:46,560
of much of what's in those acts is
technical in nature it's about municipal

599
00:39:44,400 --> 00:39:49,839
assessment or
asset management or land use planning

600
00:39:48,640 --> 00:39:54,079
those sorts of things which show up in
the acts but could conceivably i guess

601
00:39:51,920 --> 00:39:58,079
be their own acts as well and there's a
whole lot more to it as well certainly

602
00:39:55,920 --> 00:40:01,359
these acts both well all these pieces of
legislation are on provincial

603
00:39:59,359 --> 00:40:05,119
legislative provisions
the municipal uh information sorry

604
00:40:03,760 --> 00:40:08,640
freedom of information and protection of
privacy act you have the longest name of

605
00:40:06,880 --> 00:40:14,079
a information and privacy act i think in
the country speaks specifically to the

606
00:40:12,400 --> 00:40:18,319
by release of information so there's two
pieces of that

607
00:40:15,359 --> 00:40:22,560
by default information is free any
citizen has access to any piece of

608
00:40:20,160 --> 00:40:26,720
information that any order of government
has however it's the cabinet to it a

609
00:40:25,200 --> 00:40:29,359
restriction on it is protection of
privacy

610
00:40:27,760 --> 00:40:32,640
so there are lots of reasons or
exemptions to disclosure that are

611
00:40:31,280 --> 00:40:36,000
legitimate reasons for that we're going
to talk a little bit more about that

612
00:40:34,000 --> 00:40:39,839
about later when they look at those
exemptions some of them are mandatory

613
00:40:37,599 --> 00:40:43,760
and some of them are discretionary now
when

614
00:40:40,640 --> 00:40:48,880
if some if there's something um
solicitor client privilege for example

615
00:40:46,880 --> 00:40:54,319
there is a real and legitimate reason to
keep some things

616
00:40:50,319 --> 00:40:58,160
in within uh behind closed doors without
prejudicing the outcome of something

617
00:40:56,240 --> 00:41:00,640
this is one of those cases where what
happens on the outside of local

618
00:40:59,520 --> 00:41:03,680
government and what happens on the
inside of local government is a

619
00:41:02,240 --> 00:41:07,359
difference between what's perception and
what's reality with various shades of

620
00:41:05,680 --> 00:41:11,520
gray in there too but some
municipalities too will then look if

621
00:41:09,440 --> 00:41:15,920
they look at discretionary
discretionary exemptions to disclosure

622
00:41:13,599 --> 00:41:20,400
we'll choose by and large to disclose
some municipalities will choose by and

623
00:41:17,599 --> 00:41:23,280
large not to disclose and the the
relevant

624
00:41:21,359 --> 00:41:26,480
section of legislation has to be noted
about why that particular something is

625
00:41:25,119 --> 00:41:30,480
particularly gone
uh in camera or is an exception to

626
00:41:28,800 --> 00:41:32,839
disclosure or not so these are the
pieces of legislation that we typically

627
00:41:32,079 --> 00:41:38,000
look
at if we were to look specifically at

628
00:41:35,760 --> 00:41:42,160
you in ontario this is the
the

629
00:41:38,880 --> 00:41:46,240
the purpose of the municipality and this
is pretty common that very early in

630
00:41:44,319 --> 00:41:50,400
municipal acts usually kind of right
after the section on definitions

631
00:41:48,400 --> 00:41:54,000
it speaks to why we actually have what
the what's the purpose of having local

632
00:41:52,079 --> 00:41:57,359
government wherever it happens to be so
in this case

633
00:41:55,119 --> 00:42:00,960
now the the highlighting is added by me
just to draw some attention to this it

634
00:41:59,200 --> 00:42:05,520
talks about local government being
responsible and accountable so it is

635
00:42:03,599 --> 00:42:09,040
government elected by the people it's
government for the people and it's

636
00:42:07,280 --> 00:42:12,800
accountable to the people and that
happens at least once every four years

637
00:42:11,119 --> 00:42:18,960
if there's a usually four years in some
places it's still three four years uh in

638
00:42:16,560 --> 00:42:21,599
terms of an election or less less free
or more frequently than that if it's a

639
00:42:20,480 --> 00:42:26,000
by-election
some of you have spoken about referenda

640
00:42:23,520 --> 00:42:30,319
and plebiscites and those typically
aren't binding but they do certainly

641
00:42:28,720 --> 00:42:34,480
talk about responsible and accountable
government

642
00:42:32,160 --> 00:42:37,760
and the other note i've noted the piece
i've noted here about

643
00:42:36,160 --> 00:42:41,280
respect for matters within their
jurisdiction

644
00:42:39,200 --> 00:42:45,760
so within the boundaries of the city of
stratfor the city of stratford has

645
00:42:43,119 --> 00:42:49,520
control within certain exemptions that
are or other under other jurisdictions

646
00:42:47,920 --> 00:42:53,599
like provincial jurisdiction or federal
jurisdiction but the city can do within

647
00:42:52,160 --> 00:42:57,920
reason what the city wants to do within
that within that space

648
00:42:55,920 --> 00:43:02,160
when it comes to inter-municipal so what
happens on the boundaries between

649
00:43:00,079 --> 00:43:05,839
stratford and any of its neighbors
then there's point of negotiation that

650
00:43:04,000 --> 00:43:08,880
has to happen and some provinces have
actually pushed for that to say there

651
00:43:07,760 --> 00:43:12,240
has to be some sort of formal
inter-municipal agreement between you

652
00:43:10,560 --> 00:43:15,760
and your neighbor and your neighbor and
your neighbor and some have said it's

653
00:43:13,359 --> 00:43:20,000
just on various topics so for example
just on recreation do you does your

654
00:43:18,160 --> 00:43:23,680
neighboring municipality charge
different fees for people from stratfor

655
00:43:22,319 --> 00:43:27,599
than they do for their own that is it
reciprocal or things like mutual aid

656
00:43:26,000 --> 00:43:31,119
agreements for emergency services will
you help us put a fire out if we promise

657
00:43:29,200 --> 00:43:34,319
to help you put a fire out even if it's
across a

658
00:43:32,240 --> 00:43:37,599
municipal jurisdictional line so those
are some of the the purposes that are

659
00:43:36,240 --> 00:43:42,000
there
if you look at how council operates they

660
00:43:40,319 --> 00:43:45,520
really only have three tools that they
can use

661
00:43:43,359 --> 00:43:47,839
i call them the levers of governance if
you like

662
00:43:46,560 --> 00:43:51,119
you've probably already heard about
these you've probably seen them and some

663
00:43:49,440 --> 00:43:56,880
of you probably even read a few
council's strongest tool is bylaws

664
00:43:54,640 --> 00:44:01,760
in this case you probably know that a
bylaw requires three separate vo at

665
00:43:59,359 --> 00:44:06,720
least three separate votes of counsel to
create or to modify or to remove

666
00:44:04,640 --> 00:44:10,800
any of these tools sorry whether it gets
to by law and policy

667
00:44:08,400 --> 00:44:15,440
any changes made to a by-law or policy
have to be made using the same tool so

668
00:44:13,599 --> 00:44:20,160
you can't use a policy to modify a
by-law you can't you can't use a

669
00:44:17,359 --> 00:44:24,480
bilateral modifier policy for example
but anyway council if it's something

670
00:44:22,079 --> 00:44:28,079
that's really important council will use
a

671
00:44:25,359 --> 00:44:32,000
bylaw for that and things like fees and
charges or land use and those kind of

672
00:44:29,920 --> 00:44:36,480
things will typically be bylaws things
like council codes of conduct are often

673
00:44:34,000 --> 00:44:39,920
in bylaws too though not universally
and it gives legislative authority which

674
00:44:38,160 --> 00:44:44,240
means it provides the city the authority
to act something to make other people do

675
00:44:42,079 --> 00:44:48,319
to do something and to penalize people
if they don't do it so this is where the

676
00:44:46,160 --> 00:44:52,880
ability of a municipality to levy fines
for example would come from so things

677
00:44:50,800 --> 00:44:58,079
like fees and charges what it costs to
go skating or

678
00:44:55,760 --> 00:45:02,240
to park downtown potentially would be
set within a bylaw and those are all

679
00:45:00,319 --> 00:45:05,839
public they should be most the time
larger municipality will post all their

680
00:45:04,000 --> 00:45:09,119
bylaws on their website
sometimes the smaller ones don't just

681
00:45:07,440 --> 00:45:12,960
because of technical capabilities or
capacity but they're there at their

682
00:45:10,880 --> 00:45:17,599
public documents and you can see them
so i mentioned it takes three readings

683
00:45:14,800 --> 00:45:22,400
or three votes to do that
it actually can take four if they want

684
00:45:19,680 --> 00:45:26,400
to do it all at once the idea behind the
three votes is to say

685
00:45:24,400 --> 00:45:29,839
let's consider it today we'll take a
couple of votes on this and see if we're

686
00:45:28,160 --> 00:45:33,040
we still want to do this
and then we'll come back in a couple of

687
00:45:31,040 --> 00:45:36,079
weeks and we'll do the third vote on it
to see if we really want to prove it's

688
00:45:34,240 --> 00:45:39,520
kind of that so time for sober second
thought however if it's something that's

689
00:45:38,160 --> 00:45:43,200
just a slam dunk and they just want to
do it and it just makes sense to

690
00:45:40,880 --> 00:45:47,359
everybody they can in fact do all three
readings or votes at the same in the

691
00:45:45,200 --> 00:45:51,599
same meeting as long as there is
typically unanimous consent to do that

692
00:45:49,200 --> 00:45:54,160
now i don't know that that's universal
across the country but it's pretty

693
00:45:52,880 --> 00:45:57,839
difficult
if if and so there are

694
00:45:56,240 --> 00:46:04,319
there are lots of bylaws there are even
more policies and policy is divided into

695
00:46:01,680 --> 00:46:07,680
governance policy and administrative
policy right now we're just talking

696
00:46:06,079 --> 00:46:11,040
governance so the stuff that council
controls

697
00:46:08,720 --> 00:46:14,640
the city the city body itself has its
own policies too but we're just going to

698
00:46:12,880 --> 00:46:18,640
ignore those for right now
the reason you have policy or a city has

699
00:46:16,640 --> 00:46:22,480
policies there's a couple of reasons one
is so that it's predictable

700
00:46:20,400 --> 00:46:25,680
so that people know how the city is
going to act they know for example how

701
00:46:24,240 --> 00:46:29,599
long the grass is supposed to be before
you cut it so those kind of things can

702
00:46:27,520 --> 00:46:33,200
be said in policy it also avoids
repeated questions

703
00:46:31,040 --> 00:46:36,880
so council administrator administration
is not supposed to think for itself and

704
00:46:35,040 --> 00:46:39,760
go freelance it's supposed to take
direction from council

705
00:46:38,560 --> 00:46:43,839
so if
if council doesn't say how long or how

706
00:46:42,160 --> 00:46:47,520
often the snow should be plowed for
example or what depth of snow pack

707
00:46:45,280 --> 00:46:51,440
before we get out there and plow
conceivably the parks person parks and

708
00:46:49,920 --> 00:46:54,800
sorry the public works person could come
to council when it snows and say you

709
00:46:52,960 --> 00:46:57,280
want me to play the cloud of snow now it
could come tomorrow and ask the same

710
00:46:56,079 --> 00:47:01,839
question and tomorrow and ask the same
question but what policy does it says

711
00:46:59,280 --> 00:47:06,000
whenever we get 10 centimeters of packs
no go go plow it don't come ask us again

712
00:47:04,480 --> 00:47:09,520
and it that will provide that
predictability it avoids the repeated

713
00:47:07,839 --> 00:47:13,839
questions everybody knows that that's
what's going to happen not that case

714
00:47:11,200 --> 00:47:19,760
policy only requires a single vote in
order to enact to change or to repeal

715
00:47:16,480 --> 00:47:23,520
so and as policies and bylaws both
remain on the books until they're

716
00:47:21,440 --> 00:47:27,839
repealed so it's conceivable in a
municipality that you could have bylaws

717
00:47:25,839 --> 00:47:30,480
or policies which are 40 or 50 or 60
years old because nobody's looked at

718
00:47:29,119 --> 00:47:34,559
them and they're all in hard copy in a
binder some place in a fault

719
00:47:32,480 --> 00:47:37,280
but they're still in force
people may not

720
00:47:35,920 --> 00:47:41,599
people may not know they're there but
they can still be used so i'm a

721
00:47:39,599 --> 00:47:44,880
proponent of making sure that councils
have a go through on all their bylaws

722
00:47:43,359 --> 00:47:49,599
and policies kind of once a term if at
all possible so those are the two

723
00:47:47,520 --> 00:47:52,800
kind of legislative if you like leavers
they've got the third is around budget i

724
00:47:51,599 --> 00:47:56,400
already mentioned things like
priority-based budgeting but you put

725
00:47:55,280 --> 00:47:59,599
your money where your mouth is or you
put your money on things that are most

726
00:47:57,599 --> 00:48:04,079
important so even if the city doesn't
explicitly say what its priorities are

727
00:48:01,920 --> 00:48:07,599
it is putting money someplace into those
sorts of into a bunch of different

728
00:48:05,920 --> 00:48:12,160
probably millions of dollars of of
expenses in various areas and it tells

729
00:48:09,839 --> 00:48:15,839
you or signals to you
what the city or what city council

730
00:48:13,839 --> 00:48:20,559
thinks is important no bunch of the
budget is just going to pay salaries or

731
00:48:18,240 --> 00:48:24,559
pay the insurance bill keep the street
lights on those sorts of things but is

732
00:48:22,960 --> 00:48:27,359
money going to
uh programs and services that are still

733
00:48:26,400 --> 00:48:30,640
needed
are are is

734
00:48:29,280 --> 00:48:33,839
are people who live in stratford
comfortable with the way

735
00:48:31,920 --> 00:48:37,760
the budget is being spent
are you within some sort of a spending

736
00:48:36,160 --> 00:48:42,160
limit most provinces if not all
provinces will set a spending a

737
00:48:39,280 --> 00:48:45,760
borrowing limit for uh for budget for uh
sorry for municipalities and they need

738
00:48:44,079 --> 00:48:48,640
to stay within that
my final comment on this is around

739
00:48:47,040 --> 00:48:52,400
legislative paramedics
and this is a concept which is quite

740
00:48:50,079 --> 00:48:55,119
useful because it talks about what you
can kind of what you can and can't do if

741
00:48:54,160 --> 00:49:00,800
you like
if for example the city was to pass a

742
00:48:57,760 --> 00:49:06,400
bylaw about national defense
to say hey we think that um

743
00:49:04,640 --> 00:49:09,839
where i don't know i shouldn't i just
made this up the top of my head but if

744
00:49:08,319 --> 00:49:13,839
council wants to create a bylaw about
national defense it really wouldn't have

745
00:49:11,680 --> 00:49:16,480
no authority to do that
because it's not within their

746
00:49:15,280 --> 00:49:20,720
jurisdiction
and so any federal law that had to do

747
00:49:18,960 --> 00:49:24,960
with defense would supersede anything
that the city wanted to do anyway and in

748
00:49:22,800 --> 00:49:29,359
that case that part becomes that the
bylaw or the policy becomes null and

749
00:49:26,800 --> 00:49:31,680
void if however that by-law also made
reference to something that was within

750
00:49:31,040 --> 00:49:35,200
the
city's control like speed limits on

751
00:49:33,920 --> 00:49:38,640
urban roads i don't know why you do
those together but whatever then this

752
00:49:36,960 --> 00:49:42,960
the piece about speed limits on urban
roads would still remain in effect it's

753
00:49:40,480 --> 00:49:47,200
only that piece which is in convention
that can't keep it can't keep going and

754
00:49:45,599 --> 00:49:51,200
so there's a requirement at that point
then for city council to have a look at

755
00:49:49,359 --> 00:49:56,880
whatever that piece is the bylaw or the
policy and change it so that it's no

756
00:49:53,920 --> 00:50:01,119
longer in conflict with the higher order
legislation let us look at peace

757
00:50:00,079 --> 00:50:04,559
so i'm just going to take a bit of a
break here and i see we've got some

758
00:50:02,319 --> 00:50:07,520
comments or questions in the chat box
and then if anybody else wants to say

759
00:50:06,000 --> 00:50:10,160
anything i'm more than happy to listen
to them

760
00:50:10,559 --> 00:50:17,040
where are we ken says federal government
gives dollars to province to get a

761
00:50:14,880 --> 00:50:19,520
re-elected and b to do stuff so that's
one of my favorite terms is to do stuff

762
00:50:18,559 --> 00:50:23,119
because that's what that's what
government does

763
00:50:21,520 --> 00:50:26,640
provincial government banks or
re-channels the money from feds to

764
00:50:25,599 --> 00:50:31,520
a
get they'll get reelected to hoard money

765
00:50:28,880 --> 00:50:35,119
or to do stuff and d downloads work to
cities without money so i do agree with

766
00:50:33,599 --> 00:50:39,599
you that there's a lot of downloading
that happens and it only goes one way

767
00:50:37,040 --> 00:50:42,720
you can't push that string up a hill
and

768
00:50:40,559 --> 00:50:47,599
you the download often downloads
authority sorry responsibility without

769
00:50:44,800 --> 00:50:51,359
authority and often that includes
the lack of resources as well

770
00:50:49,760 --> 00:50:54,960
so local government tries to make do
with what they get from the province and

771
00:50:52,800 --> 00:50:58,160
applies to grants from anyone who gives
them everything

772
00:50:56,480 --> 00:51:01,119
al says municipalities need to be
recognized in the federal or provincial

773
00:50:59,839 --> 00:51:04,160
constitutions
cities and towns need to be at the table

774
00:51:02,800 --> 00:51:06,800
when decisions are made by the feds in
the provinces you'll get no argument

775
00:51:05,839 --> 00:51:09,680
from me
but i suspect that change there's no

776
00:51:08,880 --> 00:51:12,800
there aren't any provincial
constitutions

777
00:51:11,200 --> 00:51:17,119
and but it would have to be a change to
the federal constitution to recognize

778
00:51:14,480 --> 00:51:20,800
municipalities as an order of government
some there is something in the

779
00:51:18,880 --> 00:51:25,680
federation of canadian municipalities
called the big cities caucus which is

780
00:51:23,040 --> 00:51:30,640
just the 20 or 25 largest cities in the
country that often do get a seat at that

781
00:51:27,680 --> 00:51:35,440
table but they get it by the by the heft
that they bring rather than by any sort

782
00:51:32,720 --> 00:51:39,280
of constitutional validity
question here why is freedom of

783
00:51:36,800 --> 00:51:43,200
information information not free
typically the requirement is if somebody

784
00:51:41,520 --> 00:51:46,960
makes freedom a valid freedom of
information requests there is a cost to

785
00:51:45,200 --> 00:51:50,079
bringing that information together i
can't comment specifically in stratford

786
00:51:48,640 --> 00:51:53,760
but that's often why there are fees
associated with freedom of information

787
00:51:52,079 --> 00:51:58,079
however some of those fees can be
onerous and you can look at whether

788
00:51:55,760 --> 00:52:02,000
those fees are legitimate or not as part
of the fees and charges bylaw that the

789
00:51:59,599 --> 00:52:05,280
city would have to adopt and that is
something that a candidate for office

790
00:52:03,839 --> 00:52:07,760
certainly could speak to if they wanted
to

791
00:52:06,000 --> 00:52:10,480
there are frivolous and vexations
spectatious freedom of information

792
00:52:09,200 --> 00:52:14,240
requests too
and that might be part of reason why

793
00:52:12,079 --> 00:52:18,000
there's a cost associated
ken says freedom of information cost is

794
00:52:15,839 --> 00:52:22,880
not the issue the issue is stratfor is
an automatic no response followed by the

795
00:52:20,559 --> 00:52:26,240
maximum longest wait period all by city
lawyers funding ways to say no i'm going

796
00:52:24,559 --> 00:52:30,240
to leave that the way it is
you would know your situation more than

797
00:52:27,920 --> 00:52:33,200
i do oh the first reference to chinese
shows up lack of transparency or

798
00:52:31,920 --> 00:52:37,440
accountability we're going to get to
that later too in our well we'll have a

799
00:52:35,520 --> 00:52:41,359
whole session on that we'll talk about
transparency and accountability today

800
00:52:39,599 --> 00:52:46,400
and some of the engagement piece about
how cities and citizens

801
00:52:43,440 --> 00:52:49,440
connect uh in session number three why
are bylaws not given much in the way of

802
00:52:47,839 --> 00:52:52,880
teeth or compliance
so there's an interesting piece to that

803
00:52:50,880 --> 00:52:56,880
we're going to look at council code of
conduct and

804
00:52:54,480 --> 00:53:00,960
council does have the ability to put
teeth into bylaws if there is the will

805
00:52:59,119 --> 00:53:04,240
to do it and if they have the authority
to do it

806
00:53:02,000 --> 00:53:08,400
oftentimes biologically identify what
they what what what you want to have

807
00:53:06,400 --> 00:53:12,800
what city wants to have happen what
constitutes a breach of whatever that

808
00:53:10,720 --> 00:53:17,040
by-law happens to be but oftentimes
that's where it stops and sometimes

809
00:53:15,119 --> 00:53:23,119
things like sanctions
whether they are teeth or compliance

810
00:53:19,920 --> 00:53:28,000
are are not as detailed as they can be
can't comment specifically on on the one

811
00:53:24,880 --> 00:53:31,599
you may be talking about here
uh stratfor operating budgets about 70

812
00:53:29,839 --> 00:53:34,319
million dollars a year says can roughly
the same amount as festival spent in a

813
00:53:33,119 --> 00:53:37,680
normal year
stratfor can go into debt about 100

814
00:53:36,079 --> 00:53:41,119
million dollars cities are expected to
balance budgets that's true so

815
00:53:39,359 --> 00:53:46,000
oftentimes the
uh the borrowing limit for

816
00:53:43,280 --> 00:53:50,160
municipalities is often about 1.5 times
the operating budget now if anybody

817
00:53:48,000 --> 00:53:54,640
knows differently for ontario let me
know but that's typically what i've seen

818
00:53:52,480 --> 00:53:58,800
so conceivably you could do that
a lot of cities in particular will

819
00:53:56,960 --> 00:54:04,240
actually see the policy that they won't
go that high so if they could borrow 1.5

820
00:54:01,920 --> 00:54:10,559
times they say we're going to cap our
internal borrowing limit at one time or

821
00:54:06,960 --> 00:54:14,800
0.8 times or 1.2 times but that that is
okay because it still it doesn't

822
00:54:11,920 --> 00:54:18,480
contradict the provincial legislation
if you were to say the city is going to

823
00:54:16,160 --> 00:54:22,800
go to two times our annual operating
budget that would contradict

824
00:54:21,040 --> 00:54:26,480
a cap that may be in your provincial
legislation and therefore a piece about

825
00:54:24,880 --> 00:54:30,000
legislative parameters would come into
effect and it would be null that part of

826
00:54:27,920 --> 00:54:33,680
the of the pilot would be null and void
again you would know your situation more

827
00:54:31,920 --> 00:54:38,079
than mine but cities are expected to
balance budgets and i think

828
00:54:36,000 --> 00:54:41,440
unlike the province and the province of
the federal government which aren't

829
00:54:39,280 --> 00:54:45,280
expected to balance budget and we do see
long-term impact for that

830
00:54:43,440 --> 00:54:49,359
someone says don says how often should
bylaws come up for review and

831
00:54:47,040 --> 00:54:52,799
public ask for review
bylaws don't

832
00:54:50,640 --> 00:54:55,920
often have expiry dates on them some of
them do like things like a fees and

833
00:54:54,319 --> 00:55:00,160
charges by law will often have to be
reviewed every year or a property tax

834
00:54:58,160 --> 00:55:04,559
bylaw will have to be done every year
but a lot of bylaws don't and those ones

835
00:55:02,640 --> 00:55:07,119
are the ones that tend to get and stay
in those binders and nobody has a look

836
00:55:06,000 --> 00:55:11,839
at them
i'm an advocate of having a look at

837
00:55:09,200 --> 00:55:16,640
every every bylaw at least once a term
once every four years now cities the

838
00:55:14,160 --> 00:55:19,280
size of stratford that may be impossible
just because of the number of bylaws

839
00:55:18,079 --> 00:55:23,119
that have that happened and the only
other business that has to happen but if

840
00:55:21,119 --> 00:55:26,240
there's a regular cycle or review that
takes a little longer than four years

841
00:55:24,319 --> 00:55:29,440
potentially so be it you're living
starting to live that that examined life

842
00:55:28,160 --> 00:55:32,400
anyway and i think there's some validity
to that you could say the same thing

843
00:55:30,960 --> 00:55:36,000
about policies as well and there are
usually even more policies than there

844
00:55:33,680 --> 00:55:39,920
are bylaws sometimes a city will set up
a bylaw or policy review committee or

845
00:55:37,839 --> 00:55:44,160
advisory committee to take that off the
hands of city council itself however

846
00:55:42,640 --> 00:55:47,359
only city council can make the final
decisions but they could take a an

847
00:55:45,760 --> 00:55:50,480
advice they could take advice from one
of their advisory committees

848
00:55:49,040 --> 00:55:53,040
found the piece to this is can public
ask for a review of certain bylaws yes

849
00:55:52,079 --> 00:55:56,640
you can
well the city council is under no

850
00:55:54,799 --> 00:56:01,760
obligation to do it but you certainly
can make that request and if it is done

851
00:55:59,680 --> 00:56:04,960
respectfully legitimately and with a
good rationale

852
00:56:03,040 --> 00:56:09,040
a lot of times that will probably show
up the very first

853
00:56:07,040 --> 00:56:12,319
calm quote on my presentation this
evening was that margaret mead quote

854
00:56:10,480 --> 00:56:15,040
about a small group of involved people
and if they're the ones who are paying

855
00:56:13,280 --> 00:56:18,480
attention they're likely the ones who
are going to get hurt

856
00:56:17,040 --> 00:56:23,440
that's all the
notes i have right now in the chat did

857
00:56:21,280 --> 00:56:26,799
anybody else want to say anything
here about

858
00:56:24,960 --> 00:56:31,839
where we are at in terms of legislative
paramouncy or orders of government

859
00:56:28,640 --> 00:56:31,839
responsibilities that kind of thing

860
00:56:34,880 --> 00:56:40,400
all right we'll keep going bylaws
specifically so we've dealt with the

861
00:56:38,240 --> 00:56:43,440
framework of bylaw but if we look at
bios just a neat thing about biology

862
00:56:42,400 --> 00:56:47,119
neat to me because i just love the
governance stuff

863
00:56:44,640 --> 00:56:50,960
you use the term bylaw with a hyphen on
it a lot of places don't it's just a

864
00:56:48,960 --> 00:56:54,720
single word means nothing no difference
of course but it's just a little

865
00:56:52,240 --> 00:57:00,160
semantic semantic thing
city i i reference city the how the city

866
00:56:57,359 --> 00:57:04,799
has bylaws on the website and they do
so most if not all bylaws are in the on

867
00:57:03,359 --> 00:57:08,160
the website i just took a screen grab
here and this one is biased about some

868
00:57:06,720 --> 00:57:12,160
bylaws associated with neighborhood
bylaws and rather than just a list of

869
00:57:10,079 --> 00:57:17,680
bylaws from a to z i kind of like what
stratford has done here about how you've

870
00:57:14,559 --> 00:57:20,559
grouped the bylaws into into places that
it makes sense

871
00:57:19,040 --> 00:57:24,480
so it may be some just around governance
about how council operates these ones

872
00:57:22,640 --> 00:57:28,480
are around neighborhoods
and neighborhood well-being

873
00:57:26,720 --> 00:57:31,599
and others probably on recreation or
public works i suspect as well

874
00:57:30,559 --> 00:57:35,599
and i kind of think it's a really
interesting way of doing it because it

875
00:57:32,880 --> 00:57:39,119
increases accessibility for the citizens
so you would be free to have a look at

876
00:57:37,200 --> 00:57:43,920
any one of these bylaws
they will all say on them when they were

877
00:57:41,280 --> 00:57:48,799
created and you typically they will also
talk say on them when they were

878
00:57:46,720 --> 00:57:52,880
revised or when a previous one was
repealed so you can have a look at the

879
00:57:50,319 --> 00:57:56,079
chronology of them a little bit
when it comes to policies which we're

880
00:57:54,240 --> 00:57:59,760
going to deal with in a minute or two
they are a little different in that some

881
00:57:57,760 --> 00:58:04,880
of them a lot of templates will actually
have expiry dates or review by expiry

882
00:58:02,319 --> 00:58:08,640
dates don't work but review by dates on
policies so that they say

883
00:58:07,359 --> 00:58:11,359
there's a bit of an automatic trigger
that says five years from now or ten

884
00:58:10,160 --> 00:58:16,480
years from now we should review this
policy so those things are there so any

885
00:58:14,480 --> 00:58:20,960
citizen anybody who's got access to the
internet i suppose could review the

886
00:58:18,319 --> 00:58:25,200
bylaws for the city and sometimes one of
the interesting things to do is compare

887
00:58:23,040 --> 00:58:28,720
effort bylaws with bylaws in other
similar sized cities

888
00:58:26,880 --> 00:58:33,359
across the country and just see if there
are some neat ideas i'm a i'm a big fan

889
00:58:31,119 --> 00:58:37,680
of a term called wise practice a lot of
people are talking about best practices

890
00:58:35,599 --> 00:58:40,799
but i kind of like the idea of wise and
why is to me it's not just because of

891
00:58:39,280 --> 00:58:44,000
wise communities either lorena there you
go

892
00:58:41,599 --> 00:58:47,920
um i like the idea of wise because it
talks about taking a best practice from

893
00:58:46,160 --> 00:58:53,839
somewhere else and adapting it to local
circumstances so for example if you file

894
00:58:51,040 --> 00:58:56,720
off from winnipeg which is
five times your size

895
00:58:55,520 --> 00:59:00,160
you might see there's some neat
principles in it which we could adapt to

896
00:58:58,319 --> 00:59:04,720
stratford but it won't work if we just
slap the name stratford on it we need to

897
00:59:02,319 --> 00:59:09,119
take the kernel of the idea modify it
for local use and to me that's a wise

898
00:59:07,520 --> 00:59:14,559
practice you take what works somewhere
else adapt it for your local use so

899
00:59:11,359 --> 00:59:18,640
anyway these are available to you
if we were to look at the municipal act

900
00:59:16,640 --> 00:59:23,440
the um
what this talks about what bylaw what

901
00:59:21,200 --> 00:59:26,799
bylaws can do and it talks about any
provide

902
00:59:24,720 --> 00:59:31,680
service or thing that the municipality
considers necessary or desirable

903
00:59:29,920 --> 00:59:34,079
so as you can see it's a pretty broad
range

904
00:59:32,480 --> 00:59:37,760
and the next slide speaks more
specifically to this so this talks about

905
00:59:35,760 --> 00:59:43,200
what the city can do
when they're saying some oaths of office

906
00:59:40,799 --> 00:59:46,960
or in some bylaws or some municipal
purposes

907
00:59:44,319 --> 00:59:50,559
they will speak to in terms of what's
benefit for the community about

908
00:59:48,319 --> 00:59:54,319
necessary or desirable whether that is
necessary or desirable for the entire

909
00:59:52,400 --> 00:59:59,599
city or whether that is necessary or
desirable for just part of the city now

910
00:59:56,960 --> 01:00:04,160
if city council is elected at large they
all represent the same geographical area

911
01:00:02,240 --> 01:00:07,920
however if see if city council is
elected by wards or divisions or

912
01:00:06,000 --> 01:00:11,520
whatever you want to call them then the
each city councillor

913
01:00:09,599 --> 01:00:15,520
represents a different geographical area
of the city and therefore may have some

914
01:00:12,799 --> 01:00:19,440
different interests in mind as well so
an item which may be of benefit to my

915
01:00:17,599 --> 01:00:22,960
part of the city may actually be a net
cost to your part of the city and we get

916
01:00:21,119 --> 01:00:27,040
we're both sitting on city council
so that this the act says you need to be

917
01:00:25,839 --> 01:00:31,920
looking at
things which are overall benefit to the

918
01:00:28,880 --> 01:00:35,359
city so on balance over time hopefully
that all wears out but

919
01:00:34,319 --> 01:00:38,319
councillor
vasilakos at the beginning talked about

920
01:00:36,960 --> 01:00:43,040
the greater lease
in smaller rural municipalities across

921
01:00:41,280 --> 01:00:46,799
the country which are divided up into
electoral divisions

922
01:00:44,960 --> 01:00:51,760
sometimes there's a way to pro quo that
says if some work happened in division

923
01:00:48,960 --> 01:00:54,960
one there needs to be now some commencer
some other work done in division two or

924
01:00:53,440 --> 01:00:58,880
division three
you scratch my back i'll scratch yours

925
01:00:57,200 --> 01:01:02,319
and that's not the way it should work
but that's the way sometimes that it

926
01:01:00,240 --> 01:01:05,920
does work and that's something for
citizens to keep an eye on and for

927
01:01:04,160 --> 01:01:09,119
municipal managers to keep an eye on as
well

928
01:01:07,599 --> 01:01:12,960
if we think specifically about what it
is that the city can do in terms of

929
01:01:10,880 --> 01:01:16,799
bylaw these are the this is the list
that comes out of the act as well so

930
01:01:14,480 --> 01:01:21,920
section 11 of the act and i again added
the highlights to this because it says

931
01:01:18,880 --> 01:01:26,079
what the city can do in this case the
corollary being that anything's not on

932
01:01:23,520 --> 01:01:29,760
this list is stuff that city can't do so
it can set its own structure for the

933
01:01:28,160 --> 01:01:33,359
municipality and the boards or
committees that it sets up

934
01:01:31,440 --> 01:01:36,559
accountability and transparency shows up
specifically to this

935
01:01:35,119 --> 01:01:40,720
it doesn't say whether it should be or
shouldn't be accountable and transparent

936
01:01:38,240 --> 01:01:45,920
but there are things i have learned like
accessibility which overarch some of

937
01:01:43,599 --> 01:01:50,160
what the city can do but we still have
to abide by provincial legislation on

938
01:01:48,480 --> 01:01:52,720
accessibility for example and
accountability and transparency does

939
01:01:51,760 --> 01:01:56,079
show up
the financial management money in money

940
01:01:55,119 --> 01:02:00,000
out
how it gets spent how it gets allocated

941
01:01:58,319 --> 01:02:03,440
for the audit that sort of thing shows
up

942
01:02:00,720 --> 01:02:08,079
municipal assets capital assets are one
of the biggest line items in municipal

943
01:02:05,760 --> 01:02:11,920
budgets and in many times they are
something that you don't often see i had

944
01:02:10,319 --> 01:02:16,000
a mayor joked to me once and it's really
hard to cut a ribbon on a sewer system

945
01:02:14,480 --> 01:02:19,520
but they're really important if you try
going without a water system or a sewer

946
01:02:17,680 --> 01:02:22,880
system the municipality's not going to
do very well and asset management shows

947
01:02:21,200 --> 01:02:26,319
them to this too so it's not like
building a recreation center a new

948
01:02:24,480 --> 01:02:31,200
performing arts center where you can
look at it and have some sort of

949
01:02:29,119 --> 01:02:36,079
edifice complex if you like but it's
really important to have it to make a

950
01:02:33,280 --> 01:02:39,760
commun complete community
so economic social environmental

951
01:02:38,319 --> 01:02:43,680
well-being
comes in too i've noticed a lot of the

952
01:02:42,079 --> 01:02:48,640
ontario legislation uses the term
well-being and a lot of it speaks to the

953
01:02:46,240 --> 01:02:51,520
environment and i suspect that physical
environment when cities look at

954
01:02:50,319 --> 01:02:55,520
environment my
proposal to them is to look at the land

955
01:02:53,839 --> 01:02:58,799
and anything that happens on or under
the land so in some ways if you're

956
01:02:57,440 --> 01:03:03,119
looking at environmental well-being
things like that deep infrastructure has

957
01:03:01,280 --> 01:03:06,160
an impact because it's a disturbance on
the environment if you're going to do

958
01:03:04,880 --> 01:03:09,920
something like that
you've ran for instance climate change

959
01:03:07,839 --> 01:03:13,599
in here specifically too i have a
colleague by the name of mark anielski

960
01:03:12,079 --> 01:03:17,039
who's written a couple of books on
well-being

961
01:03:14,799 --> 01:03:21,599
an economy of well-being and the economy
of the economics of happiness

962
01:03:19,440 --> 01:03:26,559
at which point he's starting to measure
social and social well-being and how i

963
01:03:24,640 --> 01:03:30,559
use the phrase earlier on about why
people move to stratford and what makes

964
01:03:28,480 --> 01:03:34,240
them stay there and my colleague mark
has actually developed a process to

965
01:03:32,000 --> 01:03:38,559
start measuring some of that
health and safety is pretty common

966
01:03:36,480 --> 01:03:42,319
services and i love the word when things
shows up in legislation too which the

967
01:03:40,640 --> 01:03:46,160
municipality is
authorized to provide and finally

968
01:03:43,760 --> 01:03:51,200
protection of persons and property so
emergency services shows up here and it

969
01:03:49,680 --> 01:03:56,000
shows up here too so those are the
things the city can do

970
01:03:53,520 --> 01:04:00,400
they also so that's kind of the general
piece more specifically then in a

971
01:03:58,400 --> 01:04:04,720
subsequent section of the act these are
some of the things if you like that the

972
01:04:02,559 --> 01:04:08,640
city is authorized the places that the
city is authorized to act the term

973
01:04:06,960 --> 01:04:12,400
highway shows up but highway just really
needs roads from my reading of it as

974
01:04:10,240 --> 01:04:15,839
well this because it it's provincially
it's sorry it specifically excludes

975
01:04:14,079 --> 01:04:20,559
provincial highways
transportation systems so trails or

976
01:04:18,720 --> 01:04:25,039
dog paths or transit
shows up here how you waste management

977
01:04:23,119 --> 01:04:28,400
which i in my eyes would include things
like

978
01:04:26,160 --> 01:04:31,200
composting recycling all those kind of
things too

979
01:04:29,440 --> 01:04:34,480
public the use of public utilities and
we see that change throughout the

980
01:04:32,319 --> 01:04:37,680
country too particularly now with
broadband internet

981
01:04:36,160 --> 01:04:41,119
some municipalities are starting to look
at things like broadband as a public

982
01:04:39,280 --> 01:04:45,280
utility rather than just something
that's for private consumption and there

983
01:04:43,039 --> 01:04:49,119
are some other pieces too in underserved
communities where

984
01:04:46,880 --> 01:04:53,920
electric electric
electricity or natural gas sometimes are

985
01:04:51,280 --> 01:04:57,440
public ut publicly owned utilities too
parks rep culture and heritage shows up

986
01:04:56,000 --> 01:05:00,000
here and i think when i think of
stratfor

987
01:04:58,720 --> 01:05:03,039
as some of you mentioned off the top
this is what i and probably most

988
01:05:01,440 --> 01:05:07,680
canadians think about
stratford as a city

989
01:05:05,520 --> 01:05:10,720
drainage and flood control
accepting storm sewers and i must admit

990
01:05:09,440 --> 01:05:13,920
a little bit of ignorance to the storm
sewer part

991
01:05:11,920 --> 01:05:17,039
about why that's not included but how
you move water from where it's not

992
01:05:15,440 --> 01:05:21,280
supposed to be to where it is supposed
to be without causing problems so flood

993
01:05:19,520 --> 01:05:23,920
avoidance
structures buildings so building

994
01:05:22,880 --> 01:05:28,720
permitting
uh it shows up here too

995
01:05:26,240 --> 01:05:33,680
uh parking except on those highways so
parking lots and street parking

996
01:05:30,960 --> 01:05:37,039
animal control an animal licensing
dev which probably is interest of

997
01:05:35,359 --> 01:05:41,039
interest to several of you what is it
again that makes stratford unique and

998
01:05:39,119 --> 01:05:44,559
several of you who talked about economic
diversification right off the top would

999
01:05:42,880 --> 01:05:48,319
come in here and then licensing of
businesses

1000
01:05:45,760 --> 01:05:51,760
uh cost of licensing and monitoring of
those licensing

1001
01:05:49,599 --> 01:05:54,240
so the next piece is about policies but
i see a few people have put some

1002
01:05:53,039 --> 01:05:57,119
comments in the chat so i'll just kind
of respond to that

1003
01:05:58,160 --> 01:06:03,440
oh
how often could a vote of city council

1004
01:06:01,119 --> 01:06:06,640
vacate than shinny non-disclosure
agreement since the proposal is now

1005
01:06:04,960 --> 01:06:09,359
defunct
now you're getting into something here

1006
01:06:07,760 --> 01:06:14,880
that is much more specific to stratfor
than i can really answer so uh john i

1007
01:06:12,079 --> 01:06:18,000
apologize i can't give you that
um

1008
01:06:16,480 --> 01:06:21,599
because there may re
some of those exceptions to disclosure

1009
01:06:19,599 --> 01:06:27,920
if they were legitimately used in things
like negotiation with a third party or

1010
01:06:24,480 --> 01:06:31,119
land use in terms of sale or purchase of
land speculating because you don't want

1011
01:06:30,000 --> 01:06:35,680
to give away what you what you're
willing to pay some of those things will

1012
01:06:33,119 --> 01:06:38,640
remain confidential even after the fact
i can't comment on the specifics of that

1013
01:06:37,520 --> 01:06:41,520
one but that's some of what i've seen
with it

1014
01:06:39,920 --> 01:06:45,520
are there jurisdictions that have sunset
clauses and bylaws i haven't sorry

1015
01:06:43,359 --> 01:06:50,160
that's not true i have seen some that
some set causes in some by-laws some of

1016
01:06:48,079 --> 01:06:53,520
them like i mentioned are annual like a
property tax by-law or a fees and

1017
01:06:51,920 --> 01:06:58,319
charges bylaw
but other bylaws conceivably then could

1018
01:06:55,760 --> 01:07:03,280
say this by-law will expire on january
1st 2025 unless it's renewed because

1019
01:07:00,640 --> 01:07:07,200
those sorts of things do happen
should an update of zoning bylaws be

1020
01:07:04,960 --> 01:07:10,400
done before a review of the op official
plan

1021
01:07:09,039 --> 01:07:14,559
it's probably useful to do that i would
suggest at least in conjunction with the

1022
01:07:12,079 --> 01:07:20,240
official plan the effect the plan itself
will over arch bylaws so plan will set

1023
01:07:18,640 --> 01:07:24,559
what you want stratfor to look like over
the next x number of years and the

1024
01:07:21,760 --> 01:07:29,520
bylaws will be used to get to that place
so if there are bylaws which are

1025
01:07:27,119 --> 01:07:34,160
not useful in providing
for something that is identified as a

1026
01:07:31,599 --> 01:07:37,200
priority in the official plan then the
bylaw whatever it happens to be zoning

1027
01:07:35,520 --> 01:07:40,160
or otherwise probably ought to at least
be reviewed

1028
01:07:38,880 --> 01:07:43,359
there are some smart people who have
created some of these bylaws and

1029
01:07:42,079 --> 01:07:46,720
engineering companies and lawyers and
whatnot that will have had to look at

1030
01:07:44,559 --> 01:07:50,799
them too sometimes there can be unif
unintended consequences to changes

1031
01:07:49,280 --> 01:07:54,079
somebody notes that i'm cutting out at
times i apologize for that i saw a

1032
01:07:52,559 --> 01:07:57,359
little while ago my notes say the
internet was unstable it could just be

1033
01:07:55,440 --> 01:08:01,200
that hotel i'm in if it does cut out
again thank you for letting me know mark

1034
01:07:59,280 --> 01:08:05,119
but just yell at me at the time and i'll
i don't know what i'll do but i'll

1035
01:08:03,119 --> 01:08:08,839
wave back
one biola that grinds my gears is the

1036
01:08:06,720 --> 01:08:12,720
animal bylaw says ken
2014 it's still in effect even though

1037
01:08:11,119 --> 01:08:15,200
council received the citizens provider
committee recommendations three years

1038
01:08:14,240 --> 01:08:19,520
ago
city's been too busy to pass the new one

1039
01:08:18,159 --> 01:08:23,359
so that's one of the interesting things
about city council committees for the

1040
01:08:21,120 --> 01:08:27,279
most part is they are purely advisory
that city council can listen to their

1041
01:08:25,600 --> 01:08:31,120
advice they can take their advice they
can discount their advice or they can do

1042
01:08:28,880 --> 01:08:35,600
something in between
not doing anything is acting

1043
01:08:34,000 --> 01:08:38,960
again i don't know the specifics of this
but if it is something that grind your

1044
01:08:37,040 --> 01:08:41,920
grinds your gears i would suspect and if
they're if it's something that's

1045
01:08:39,920 --> 01:08:46,319
grinding other people's gears too that's
one of those things that small groups of

1046
01:08:43,520 --> 01:08:50,880
citizens can really assist with
more sound stratford owns its own hydro

1047
01:08:48,480 --> 01:08:54,480
oh there we go so festival hydro is a
power producer so that's one of those

1048
01:08:52,159 --> 01:08:59,199
places that that you actually do do that
how much control does

1049
01:08:56,560 --> 01:09:03,440
city have over police budgets
it depends on the other my answers say

1050
01:09:01,120 --> 01:09:06,799
it depends i apologize for that
it depends on the police act within

1051
01:09:05,440 --> 01:09:12,319
ontario
often times municipalities

1052
01:09:09,199 --> 01:09:15,759
if they have their own police service
that police service is

1053
01:09:14,799 --> 01:09:19,839
still
under the authority of a higher order

1054
01:09:17,679 --> 01:09:24,159
government act so if there is a policing
act in ontario i didn't even prep for

1055
01:09:22,000 --> 01:09:27,920
this by looking at that sort of thing
that oftentimes the police act would set

1056
01:09:25,920 --> 01:09:31,520
up a police commission
a commission is separate from city

1057
01:09:30,400 --> 01:09:36,080
council
and if a city councilor sits on a police

1058
01:09:34,000 --> 01:09:40,000
commission they are usually wearing
their commission hat not their city

1059
01:09:38,080 --> 01:09:43,279
council hat they're supposed to act in
the best best interest of the commission

1060
01:09:42,080 --> 01:09:46,799
and the police service i guess
indirectly rather than the city same

1061
01:09:45,520 --> 01:09:50,400
sort of thing often happens with
libraries as well with if there are a

1062
01:09:48,640 --> 01:09:54,560
specific library
that the library board member will be a

1063
01:09:52,719 --> 01:09:57,360
board member not a city councilor while
they're actually sitting around the

1064
01:09:55,440 --> 01:10:01,199
board table it's a matter of semantics
in a lot of cases however though making

1065
01:09:59,360 --> 01:10:05,199
your comment about police
so police oversight belongs to the

1066
01:10:02,960 --> 01:10:10,159
commission police budget however is
something that is a city council of

1067
01:10:06,800 --> 01:10:15,040
responsibility and that could that is
a budget line like fire services or like

1068
01:10:12,719 --> 01:10:18,560
recreation or like social services in
the budget and it's up to council then

1069
01:10:17,520 --> 01:10:23,040
to weigh
the requirements of that public safety

1070
01:10:21,040 --> 01:10:26,800
initiative if you like to provide the
dollars to

1071
01:10:24,640 --> 01:10:30,239
if you have suggested to a police
to the police department or police

1072
01:10:28,320 --> 01:10:33,600
service at a level that they think is
appropriate for what they got given that

1073
01:10:32,239 --> 01:10:37,120
they also have other things they've got
to fund as well

1074
01:10:35,199 --> 01:10:40,400
we've seen some councils
look we heard that what was it last year

1075
01:10:38,960 --> 01:10:43,280
they um
defund the police and those sorts of

1076
01:10:41,840 --> 01:10:46,159
things that came up but some
municipalities were saying we need to

1077
01:10:44,560 --> 01:10:50,320
put more money into prevention and so
we're actually increasing

1078
01:10:48,159 --> 01:10:54,000
not necessarily police but increasing
public safety budgets because they were

1079
01:10:52,560 --> 01:10:58,159
leaving police similar to where they
were but adding more preventative with

1080
01:10:56,239 --> 01:11:02,480
the idea being that short-term pain for
long-term gain some years from now if we

1081
01:11:00,640 --> 01:11:06,640
can get ahead of the root causes of
crime we're not going to need as much in

1082
01:11:04,239 --> 01:11:11,120
terms of downstream policing that's a
that's a debate for

1083
01:11:08,719 --> 01:11:15,520
you as citizens of stratford and for
city council to have as well i don't

1084
01:11:13,120 --> 01:11:19,199
know what does that mean how am i okay
i'll leave that

1085
01:11:17,040 --> 01:11:22,960
police in the fire are big pieces of
budget absolutely they are often times

1086
01:11:21,199 --> 01:11:27,199
labor uh
in general is the largest one

1087
01:11:25,440 --> 01:11:31,199
in municipal government
then infrastructure roads sewers that

1088
01:11:29,440 --> 01:11:35,040
kind of thing is pretty high as well but
in terms of services emergency service

1089
01:11:33,040 --> 01:11:38,480
is often quite high and even if
municipality has a contract with the

1090
01:11:36,480 --> 01:11:41,679
rcfp
donna asks how many years does stratfor

1091
01:11:40,080 --> 01:11:45,920
prepare their budget in advance is it
one to ten years in advance

1092
01:11:43,760 --> 01:11:50,000
i can't answer that specifically
municipal governments typically have

1093
01:11:47,520 --> 01:11:54,960
one-year budgets but they'll often put
an outlook on that a two-year three-year

1094
01:11:52,480 --> 01:11:58,640
outlook on operating budgets we'll deal
with budget a little later too

1095
01:11:56,719 --> 01:12:03,120
on capital budgets however it's usually
a lot longer because the ice plant at

1096
01:12:01,280 --> 01:12:06,960
the arena is going to last a lot longer
than a lawnmower is going to last

1097
01:12:05,280 --> 01:12:11,520
so as in look in terms of asset
management we look further afield so a

1098
01:12:09,679 --> 01:12:16,560
capital plan if it looks at things like
roads and sewers and heavy maintenance

1099
01:12:13,600 --> 01:12:21,440
on arenas can be up to 25 years
and it identifies needs when is expected

1100
01:12:19,440 --> 01:12:26,159
to be when the money is expected to be
needed and potentially what sources of

1101
01:12:23,760 --> 01:12:30,080
revenue there are now you're limited of
course it can come from property taxes

1102
01:12:28,080 --> 01:12:33,840
it can come from some sort of a levy it
could come from a matching grant but of

1103
01:12:32,480 --> 01:12:37,040
course if you're relying on money from
other orders of government it's kind of

1104
01:12:35,440 --> 01:12:42,400
tough to be able to do that in any kind
of a consistent way but prudent asset

1105
01:12:39,920 --> 01:12:45,840
management looks a long way out
ken says council is working on five-year

1106
01:12:44,000 --> 01:12:49,040
budgets but still only one they vote on
that's correct

1107
01:12:47,199 --> 01:12:53,679
i've seen lethbridge alberta did a
four-year budget

1108
01:12:50,719 --> 01:12:57,840
over the course of a term at one point
or two terms ago so at the beginning

1109
01:12:55,920 --> 01:13:01,760
they had predictable property tax
increases over the course of four years

1110
01:13:00,000 --> 01:13:05,120
the problem was that they weren't able
to anticipate some of the things that

1111
01:13:03,760 --> 01:13:09,120
had happened
it wasn't covered but something is no

1112
01:13:07,360 --> 01:13:13,679
strategy survives first contact with
reality so there's always something that

1113
01:13:10,480 --> 01:13:17,679
gets in the way and has an impact so a
one year budget is mandatory for the

1114
01:13:15,679 --> 01:13:21,920
most part sometimes two or three with
the second and third being a rolling

1115
01:13:19,440 --> 01:13:25,120
budget so it would say once we're done
with this year we'll just add another

1116
01:13:23,440 --> 01:13:28,960
year on the end of it all and just roll
in one year into the next into the next

1117
01:13:27,040 --> 01:13:33,120
so you have a pretty good idea of what
the budget is going to be even if

1118
01:13:31,440 --> 01:13:37,199
you don't have the level of specificity
of actually setting property tax rates

1119
01:13:35,360 --> 01:13:42,239
into future years but you have a like a
ballpark to go for

1120
01:13:39,199 --> 01:13:46,640
so shorter term almost always as always
you'll have shorter term budgeting for

1121
01:13:44,239 --> 01:13:50,320
for uh operating and longer term
budgeting per capita just because of

1122
01:13:48,719 --> 01:13:55,600
just of the nature of the stuff you a
municipality actually does

1123
01:13:53,040 --> 01:14:01,560
i'm going to move on to policy if i can
unless there was anybody who had a tech

1124
01:13:57,440 --> 01:14:01,560
verbal question they wanted to ask

1125
01:14:02,560 --> 01:14:09,840
seeing none we'll move on to policies
so in so bylaws as you recall were those

1126
01:14:08,000 --> 01:14:13,360
things that require three votes to enact
to change or to repeal

1127
01:14:11,840 --> 01:14:16,960
and where the mo
are the legislative tool account that

1128
01:14:14,960 --> 01:14:21,040
municipalities use that have the highest
impact most important you also have

1129
01:14:19,120 --> 01:14:24,800
policies on afterwards and that's that
piece about certain morality is

1130
01:14:22,640 --> 01:14:29,199
predictable and it can avoid repeated
questions and i use this reference the

1131
01:14:27,760 --> 01:14:33,280
other day and said
if you look at statute municipalities

1132
01:14:31,120 --> 01:14:37,440
act for example that kind of sets the
skeleton of the municipal structures in

1133
01:14:36,239 --> 01:14:41,040
ontario
if you look at bylaws that starts to add

1134
01:14:39,280 --> 01:14:44,400
some flesh to the bones if you look at
policies now you're adding skin to that

1135
01:14:42,640 --> 01:14:48,640
flesh and then if we look a little bit
later into things like culture or

1136
01:14:46,560 --> 01:14:52,640
principles it adds clothing to all of
that so by the time you've done all four

1137
01:14:50,480 --> 01:14:55,120
of those things stratford is unique
there's no other place in the world

1138
01:14:53,840 --> 01:15:00,000
quite like it
so this now is we're into step three if

1139
01:14:57,199 --> 01:15:03,679
you like so putting the skin on that
that uh

1140
01:15:01,120 --> 01:15:07,840
the bones and the muscle
so here in terms of this is our series

1141
01:15:06,320 --> 01:15:12,000
of policies and much like the bylaws
that we referenced earlier a lot of the

1142
01:15:09,840 --> 01:15:16,000
policies that have an impact on you as
people who live and operate and run

1143
01:15:14,000 --> 01:15:19,600
organizations in stratfor are listed on
the city's website and

1144
01:15:17,679 --> 01:15:22,960
they have a pretty darn good job of it
actually

1145
01:15:20,719 --> 01:15:25,760
and so they are there for you to have a
look at to review

1146
01:15:24,400 --> 01:15:30,239
a council
like bylaws can look at these things and

1147
01:15:28,320 --> 01:15:34,640
change them if they see fit they would
respond to the needs as they as they

1148
01:15:32,400 --> 01:15:38,560
arise and hopefully then review policies
in the same sort of fashion that they

1149
01:15:35,920 --> 01:15:41,679
review bylaws as well this one i happen
to pick was around accountability and

1150
01:15:40,080 --> 01:15:45,840
transparency because i figured some of
you might be quite interested in how

1151
01:15:43,520 --> 01:15:50,800
this actually works the music the at the
policies at the bottom of the screenshot

1152
01:15:48,080 --> 01:15:54,320
here are from the municipal act itself
and it talks about where what sort of

1153
01:15:53,280 --> 01:15:57,760
things
that a municipality ought to have policy

1154
01:15:56,480 --> 01:16:01,920
about
and this is the sort of reference to the

1155
01:15:59,040 --> 01:16:06,400
act itself so they can have policies
around sale of land or disposition of

1156
01:16:04,000 --> 01:16:10,960
land they can talk about hiring
employees employee numbers employee

1157
01:16:08,480 --> 01:16:16,159
status that kind of thing
a relationship between council

1158
01:16:13,199 --> 01:16:19,679
and its officers in reality the
the only person

1159
01:16:18,000 --> 01:16:23,840
who is responsible to council is the
city manager everybody else in the

1160
01:16:21,440 --> 01:16:28,080
municipal structure is a is a staff
person of the city manager not of

1161
01:16:25,520 --> 01:16:32,000
council so council can't direct staff
other than the city manager and an

1162
01:16:30,000 --> 01:16:36,400
individual member of city council can't
direct the city manager either it needs

1163
01:16:34,239 --> 01:16:39,440
to be through an act of counsel itself
through a resolution or a mile or a

1164
01:16:38,000 --> 01:16:42,640
policy
procurement of goods and services

1165
01:16:41,360 --> 01:16:46,480
shows up here
we sometimes write policies or bylaws

1166
01:16:44,960 --> 01:16:50,800
for municipalities and oftentimes
procurement actually shows up in bylaw

1167
01:16:48,800 --> 01:16:54,800
because it's finance rather than policy
but here we are in the municipal act and

1168
01:16:52,560 --> 01:16:59,199
it's showing up in policy one of the
pieces we have seen in procurement just

1169
01:16:56,719 --> 01:17:02,800
kind of need is a buy local provision
and it is said and that we see this a

1170
01:17:01,120 --> 01:17:06,239
lot in the north actually where goods
and services are really expensive and

1171
01:17:04,159 --> 01:17:10,800
quite scarce they have said if there's a
local provider we will actually pay x

1172
01:17:08,400 --> 01:17:14,800
percent more for local than we would to
bring somebody in from external to kind

1173
01:17:13,120 --> 01:17:18,800
of keep the dollars floating around the
municipality and they've said we

1174
01:17:17,440 --> 01:17:23,040
recognize that it's going to be tough
it's a tough go of it sometimes and you

1175
01:17:20,800 --> 01:17:28,320
as a local provider may have increased
fees that others don't so

1176
01:17:25,120 --> 01:17:32,159
if it's going to cost us 10 more to buy
truck tires from you then from somebody

1177
01:17:30,159 --> 01:17:37,040
else will still consider that equivalent
and that's just kind of a neat way of

1178
01:17:33,280 --> 01:17:41,040
doing it for local economic development
notice to the public comes in here too

1179
01:17:39,360 --> 01:17:44,800
so if there are things that are
happening

1180
01:17:42,480 --> 01:17:48,560
construction things or even notice of
meetings

1181
01:17:45,840 --> 01:17:54,239
uh biology statutory bylaw changes all
those kind of things can be in here too

1182
01:17:51,199 --> 01:17:57,760
as our accountability and transparency
which is very

1183
01:17:56,159 --> 01:18:00,400
it's a lot stronger i think in ontario
than i've seen elsewhere across the

1184
01:17:59,440 --> 01:18:05,440
country
delegation of power and duties council

1185
01:18:03,360 --> 01:18:10,400
often doesn't or can't delegate a whole
lot of power and duties to anybody who's

1186
01:18:07,199 --> 01:18:13,360
not counsel but it can do can set up
things like advisory committees like

1187
01:18:11,760 --> 01:18:17,520
some of the ones you referenced one of
the places we often see this is in

1188
01:18:15,040 --> 01:18:21,840
council remuneration no counselor likes
to vote on their own salary

1189
01:18:20,480 --> 01:18:25,840
no counselor likes to give themselves a
raise maybe you should say that

1190
01:18:23,679 --> 01:18:29,840
so oftentimes a municipality will set up
a committee to say we need to get advice

1191
01:18:27,920 --> 01:18:34,560
on what council remuneration ought to be
for the next three four five six years

1192
01:18:32,000 --> 01:18:38,480
and ask people around citizens group or
ask the chamber to be involved and

1193
01:18:36,239 --> 01:18:42,800
provide a recommendation back to council
however when that happens

1194
01:18:40,960 --> 01:18:45,840
the final decision still rests with
council

1195
01:18:44,000 --> 01:18:49,360
but their salary is part of the budget
so they have to approve salaries as part

1196
01:18:47,440 --> 01:18:52,640
of the budget but they can at least say
then we

1197
01:18:50,480 --> 01:18:57,440
engaged broadly
and did something about it this we when

1198
01:18:55,199 --> 01:19:01,199
this happens things show up like if
you're if you're in a unionized

1199
01:18:58,719 --> 01:19:04,800
community the council will get the same
raise that the union gets or they will

1200
01:19:03,120 --> 01:19:07,199
say the council will only get cost of
living allowances or something to that

1201
01:19:06,320 --> 01:19:10,159
effect
somebody mentioned earlier too about

1202
01:19:08,400 --> 01:19:13,360
full-time versus part-time counselors
that's where this would potentially show

1203
01:19:11,679 --> 01:19:17,840
up to
protect and enhance the tree company

1204
01:19:15,360 --> 01:19:21,520
canopy story and natural vegetation if
you remember some of the note around the

1205
01:19:19,600 --> 01:19:25,280
purposes of municipalities and municipal
acts spoke specifically to this and it's

1206
01:19:23,360 --> 01:19:28,560
kind of neat to see it here in your
municipal act as well

1207
01:19:26,800 --> 01:19:32,080
as with pregnancy the even parental
leave which those of us

1208
01:19:30,560 --> 01:19:33,920
in alberta
i'm not sure if you're very thrilled

1209
01:19:33,040 --> 01:19:36,640
with us at the moment i'm not
particularly thrilled with us at the

1210
01:19:34,960 --> 01:19:40,159
moment we're a long way behind on a
whole lot of this stuff

1211
01:19:38,400 --> 01:19:44,719
but we are now starting to see things
like i don't think they've called it

1212
01:19:42,000 --> 01:19:48,080
pregnancy maybe parentally for sure has
been has been a big thing for local

1213
01:19:46,640 --> 01:19:52,480
government councils in this part of the
world as well so those are some of the

1214
01:19:50,000 --> 01:19:56,000
things that policies can deal with that
are kind of a little bit more granular

1215
01:19:54,239 --> 01:19:59,440
if you like than what bylaw deals with
it's again the meat on the bones

1216
01:19:59,840 --> 01:20:04,159
so
a question here

1217
01:20:02,560 --> 01:20:08,480
question i'm pretty sure this section
i'm just going to look at the chat here

1218
01:20:06,560 --> 01:20:11,840
um
ken says unless you're a large city like

1219
01:20:10,080 --> 01:20:15,840
toronto who record all votes of all
motions cities like stratfor just have

1220
01:20:13,600 --> 01:20:20,239
an informal yes no it's recorded
whatever no accountability usually the

1221
01:20:17,920 --> 01:20:22,880
way this is written is municipal acts
most of the time the musical acts were

1222
01:20:21,440 --> 01:20:26,880
done in days before a lot of
digitization so it's not something

1223
01:20:25,199 --> 01:20:31,440
thought of in fact and see a lot of
these acts actually speak to

1224
01:20:28,800 --> 01:20:34,480
notices have to being in newspapers
it doesn't speak to electronic

1225
01:20:32,639 --> 01:20:38,400
distribution of notices putting things
on facebook or websites even though it's

1226
01:20:36,239 --> 01:20:42,560
typically done the newspaper still still
shows up in there

1227
01:20:39,679 --> 01:20:46,159
so oftentimes the acts will say the
thing that something is only have to be

1228
01:20:44,480 --> 01:20:48,800
passed by a majority of the indicated
majority of counselors however that

1229
01:20:47,360 --> 01:20:51,520
happens to be historically of course
that was just everybody's in the room

1230
01:20:50,159 --> 01:20:54,800
you just put your hand up and that's how
it works

1231
01:20:52,480 --> 01:20:59,199
so it's just yes versus no and whoever
whoever wins the day wins the vote

1232
01:20:57,440 --> 01:21:03,520
however the act itself usually says if
somebody wants to call for a recorded

1233
01:21:00,880 --> 01:21:06,800
vote they can in which case the names of
the people who voted yes and the names

1234
01:21:05,280 --> 01:21:10,880
of the people who voted no were actually
recorded in the meeting minutes rather

1235
01:21:08,719 --> 01:21:14,480
than just saying it carried or failed it
says so and so voted in favor so and so

1236
01:21:13,120 --> 01:21:19,120
voted against
in some places a meeting procedure bylaw

1237
01:21:17,040 --> 01:21:22,480
will go a step further and we'll say
we're just going to record all the votes

1238
01:21:21,600 --> 01:21:27,120
and
if that that certainly can be done in

1239
01:21:24,639 --> 01:21:31,360
the age of technology now where meetings
are webcast and recorded even if it

1240
01:21:29,199 --> 01:21:36,159
isn't a recorded vote usually you can
see who put up their hand and so if it's

1241
01:21:34,159 --> 01:21:40,560
not recorded you can have a look it's
very rare that it would be completely

1242
01:21:38,320 --> 01:21:44,239
anonymous how people voted
there's an interesting piece in here too

1243
01:21:42,159 --> 01:21:49,040
about abstentions and that varies across
the country in some places every

1244
01:21:46,639 --> 01:21:52,560
councillor must vote unless there's a
reason not to they can't vote like they

1245
01:21:51,040 --> 01:21:56,320
have a conflict of interest or something
called pecuniary interest

1246
01:21:54,320 --> 01:21:59,280
and if they don't vote when they should
they are disqualified from office and

1247
01:21:57,840 --> 01:22:02,159
their seat is considered vacant they're
hired to do a job and if they refuse to

1248
01:22:00,800 --> 01:22:05,840
do their job then go find somebody else
who can do it

1249
01:22:03,199 --> 01:22:09,360
in other places you can do an abstention
and it's just

1250
01:22:06,880 --> 01:22:12,880
you vote just even counted in some other
places if you abstain it's counted as a

1251
01:22:11,440 --> 01:22:16,159
no vote
so that all has an impact on how things

1252
01:22:14,639 --> 01:22:19,440
will actually
shake out at the end of at the end of

1253
01:22:18,159 --> 01:22:22,560
the meeting
so as for ken's comment around

1254
01:22:21,040 --> 01:22:28,480
accountability
you unless the recording unless the vote

1255
01:22:24,880 --> 01:22:33,040
is a recorded vote or you have a literal
recording of the vote you're right that

1256
01:22:30,400 --> 01:22:36,880
you you don't see who voted for what
uh donna asks is stratfor the cio the

1257
01:22:35,120 --> 01:22:41,840
city manager yes
the cao is chief administrative officer

1258
01:22:39,600 --> 01:22:47,120
it could go by a variety of titles if
it's if it's called city manager in

1259
01:22:43,280 --> 01:22:47,120
stratford then yes it's your city

1260
01:22:48,239 --> 01:22:53,159
what else do we have
in here

1261
01:22:58,000 --> 01:23:03,760
i should get to the top of the chat and
i want to be at the bottom of the chat

1262
01:23:02,560 --> 01:23:08,719
oh somebody else already answered the
cao question

1263
01:23:06,639 --> 01:23:11,920
uh procurement stratfor council has
continuously and greatly increased the

1264
01:23:10,239 --> 01:23:15,760
monetary limits staff can approve
without having to go to council

1265
01:23:13,840 --> 01:23:20,080
yeah so in a procurement bylaw or
procurement policy whatever tool they

1266
01:23:17,360 --> 01:23:25,440
use you don't want every dollar and cent
having to come to council for approval

1267
01:23:22,320 --> 01:23:29,440
so often times there are limits on what
what's what can happen or can be spent

1268
01:23:28,239 --> 01:23:32,800
and i don't know the limits within
stratford but it would say like if

1269
01:23:31,120 --> 01:23:37,199
you're a frontline person you can spend
25 without approval if you're a

1270
01:23:34,719 --> 01:23:40,800
frontline manager you can spend a
thousand dollars without approval you're

1271
01:23:39,120 --> 01:23:44,560
a senior manager you can spend ten
thousand dollars without approval and if

1272
01:23:42,560 --> 01:23:48,239
your cio maybe it's higher than that and
i say without approval but it's not

1273
01:23:46,239 --> 01:23:52,560
usually exactly that way it's not
without having to go to council for

1274
01:23:49,920 --> 01:23:56,400
something that's not in the budget
so there are procurement limits on if

1275
01:23:55,040 --> 01:23:59,120
you want to spend over x amount of
dollars there are different things that

1276
01:23:57,920 --> 01:24:02,560
you have to do you have to get three
bids you have to go to an open rfp you

1277
01:24:01,120 --> 01:24:07,280
can sole source
typically sole source is the lowest

1278
01:24:04,400 --> 01:24:10,719
amount just give the contract or a
purchase to somebody to go and buy paper

1279
01:24:09,120 --> 01:24:13,360
and staples you don't want to get three
bids for that

1280
01:24:11,920 --> 01:24:17,040
if you're asking someone like me to come
in and do a strategic plan for the city

1281
01:24:15,040 --> 01:24:20,239
it's quite common that we'd find out we
are one of three companies that get

1282
01:24:18,560 --> 01:24:23,760
asked because it's a fairly limited
market and if it's going to cost x

1283
01:24:22,080 --> 01:24:28,320
amount of money it's useful to have a
bit of a competitive bid if you're going

1284
01:24:25,679 --> 01:24:32,480
to buy that metaphorical grader chances
are that goes to a public tender in

1285
01:24:30,719 --> 01:24:35,199
which case it's probably in the public
works budget

1286
01:24:33,679 --> 01:24:39,360
in terms of a
not an exact amount but a range and

1287
01:24:37,520 --> 01:24:46,400
somebody will bid on that on the open
market and come in on that so it's

1288
01:24:43,679 --> 01:24:50,159
what is this so those are the two pieces
the there's sometimes a bit of a

1289
01:24:48,880 --> 01:24:52,400
an exception to that in terms of
emergency

1290
01:24:51,600 --> 01:24:56,080
so
if things if there's a flood for example

1291
01:24:54,400 --> 01:24:59,040
and somebody has to go buy sandbags you
don't want to have to wait for the next

1292
01:24:57,199 --> 01:25:03,840
council meeting for that to happen so
oftentimes the cao will have something

1293
01:25:02,239 --> 01:25:06,800
in a procurement policy that's somewhere
that says

1294
01:25:05,040 --> 01:25:09,600
under 100 i mean i'm making the number
up completely but under a hundred

1295
01:25:08,239 --> 01:25:13,600
thousand dollars in an emergency
situation cio just goes to do it but you

1296
01:25:12,159 --> 01:25:16,400
have to report it to council at the next
meeting

1297
01:25:14,639 --> 01:25:20,080
and often times so that does happen
sometimes and sometimes there will be a

1298
01:25:18,480 --> 01:25:23,600
conversation that involves the mayor as
the head of council in that too and the

1299
01:25:21,840 --> 01:25:27,920
mayor then will will
pass on information to other members of

1300
01:25:25,360 --> 01:25:32,800
council as in due course if you like as
part of that so there's regular regular

1301
01:25:30,480 --> 01:25:36,960
purchasing and then emergency publishing
emergency purchasing and by its nature

1302
01:25:35,199 --> 01:25:40,800
emergency publishing publishing i don't
know where that's coming from emergency

1303
01:25:38,880 --> 01:25:45,520
purchasing is done
um outside the budget because we don't

1304
01:25:43,360 --> 01:25:48,800
budget for fires and floods and that
sort of thing we're just

1305
01:25:47,360 --> 01:25:53,280
happening a lot of that stuff ends up
recouped by insurance anyway

1306
01:25:51,760 --> 01:25:57,199
so anyhow
uh 99.5

1307
01:25:55,040 --> 01:26:01,199
of city council votes are not recorded i
will have to take your word for that

1308
01:25:59,679 --> 01:26:05,520
parts of the city reporting internet
problems here plus a lot of people are

1309
01:26:02,800 --> 01:26:09,280
off to see the local air show
i came in second to the snowbirds i'm a

1310
01:26:07,360 --> 01:26:13,920
private pilot i'm okay coming in second
to the snowbirds

1311
01:26:12,000 --> 01:26:17,920
and i think we're up to date hey does
anybody hear anything

1312
01:26:15,440 --> 01:26:23,840
i have a question i should go ahead
yeah it's dave hartney um does it matter

1313
01:26:21,520 --> 01:26:28,400
so the voting whether it's uh you know
one by one voter or uh

1314
01:26:26,159 --> 01:26:32,560
or many votes if it's a hundred it's a
thousand dollar purchase and like an

1315
01:26:30,400 --> 01:26:39,280
expenditure or if it's a forty million
dollar expenditure

1316
01:26:34,880 --> 01:26:43,440
is it still one vote one vote to uh
like for instance if it's a six to five

1317
01:26:41,120 --> 01:26:47,120
vote just spend the money
it doesn't matter the amount right

1318
01:26:45,440 --> 01:26:51,480
no it doesn't matter the amount
okay

1319
01:26:48,000 --> 01:26:51,480
and the the

1320
01:26:55,360 --> 01:27:00,960
it is a democracy but it's a demar it's
a rule of the majority rule

1321
01:26:59,760 --> 01:27:05,120
not only that you may have heard the
term too once a vote is done it's

1322
01:27:03,280 --> 01:27:09,120
considered a council decision and
members of all members of council are

1323
01:27:06,880 --> 01:27:12,400
expected to support it now some will a
lot of will gripe about it behind the

1324
01:27:10,880 --> 01:27:16,719
scenes but in public they're supposed to
say it's the will of council and here we

1325
01:27:14,000 --> 01:27:20,320
go whether it's 40 or 40 million dollars
now chances are there's a whole lot more

1326
01:27:18,719 --> 01:27:24,800
rigor that has gone into the
investigation about the 40 million

1327
01:27:22,239 --> 01:27:28,239
dollars not only that people will say
they need more information

1328
01:27:26,639 --> 01:27:33,520
and one of the problems that counselors
have is almost never all the information

1329
01:27:31,199 --> 01:27:36,719
in order to be to make timely decisions
sometimes they have to make they have to

1330
01:27:35,120 --> 01:27:40,880
make those decisions based on the best
information they have at the time

1331
01:27:38,800 --> 01:27:43,040
and that usually works out but sometimes
you can

1332
01:27:41,679 --> 01:27:46,159
come and bite them
as turned out to be a mistake at the end

1333
01:27:44,560 --> 01:27:49,840
of it all too
nobody tends to fret too much over the

1334
01:27:47,920 --> 01:27:53,600
smaller ones nearly as much as they do
about the larger ones and sometimes it's

1335
01:27:51,920 --> 01:27:57,679
a it's an investment if you like or a
budget that wasn't made it can cause

1336
01:27:55,600 --> 01:28:01,280
just as much of the problem of the money
that was

1337
01:27:58,840 --> 01:28:05,280
spent i don't know if that answers your
question well enough yeah yeah no for

1338
01:28:02,960 --> 01:28:09,280
sure it does i have one more um
um if uh

1339
01:28:06,960 --> 01:28:13,360
you had that chart there we talked about
why people might get into being a

1340
01:28:11,199 --> 01:28:18,560
councilman right i think one was ego and
blah blah blah i can't remember what

1341
01:28:14,800 --> 01:28:21,100
they are but if you him yep
go ahead

1342
01:28:19,679 --> 01:28:25,920
yeah i just lost my turn
[Laughter]

1343
01:28:22,880 --> 01:28:31,199
if it shows up again is is uh what's the
idea like in my in my world or maybe i'm

1344
01:28:28,480 --> 01:28:36,400
naive i think that the counselors should
represent the opinion

1345
01:28:33,360 --> 01:28:39,840
of the their constituents
not their own opinion or not their

1346
01:28:38,239 --> 01:28:44,080
children's opinion or
your neighbor's opinion it should be the

1347
01:28:41,920 --> 01:28:48,560
opinion of
of of this uh stratfor

1348
01:28:47,280 --> 01:28:51,679
you will get
this idea

1349
01:28:50,080 --> 01:28:55,120
i don't know if the ideal is whatever
works for you you have as much right to

1350
01:28:53,360 --> 01:28:58,560
the vote that you choose to cast as
anybody else does on this call or

1351
01:28:56,800 --> 01:29:02,480
anywhere else around the country
and you will base that on whatever you

1352
01:29:00,400 --> 01:29:07,120
consider to be the important criteria
and if you're electing at large so you

1353
01:29:04,800 --> 01:29:09,679
get to elect a whole slate or suite of
candidates you may choose different

1354
01:29:08,560 --> 01:29:15,280
things
you probably want your i shouldn't uh

1355
01:29:13,360 --> 01:29:19,360
say this specifically about you but
typically people want their city council

1356
01:29:17,920 --> 01:29:24,320
to represent the depth and breadth of
their community so you don't want 11 or

1357
01:29:22,320 --> 01:29:28,719
13 of the same person you want to have
some difference there

1358
01:29:26,159 --> 01:29:31,440
councils to me anyway one of the major
things that councils have to do is think

1359
01:29:30,320 --> 01:29:35,120
long term
so if they are looking at the will of

1360
01:29:32,880 --> 01:29:39,199
the majority in the short term
sometimes that can prove problematic

1361
01:29:37,120 --> 01:29:43,120
over the long term if they're not
investing now for a successful and

1362
01:29:41,120 --> 01:29:47,280
sustainable future it may be fine for
the next four years or eight years but a

1363
01:29:45,199 --> 01:29:51,600
generation from now maybe you
painted yourself into a corner so

1364
01:29:49,120 --> 01:29:55,120
counselors ought to be able and willing
to take some of those risks recognizing

1365
01:29:53,760 --> 01:29:58,560
that they're investing some of their own
political capital when they do that

1366
01:29:59,280 --> 01:30:03,280
okay thank you
okay

1367
01:30:01,760 --> 01:30:07,360
i'm going to keep going here that's this
is something else i don't want to cut

1368
01:30:04,239 --> 01:30:10,639
off your questions either
all right

1369
01:30:08,400 --> 01:30:14,080
i love this stuff you guys
budget oh here we go

1370
01:30:12,639 --> 01:30:16,239
so let's just a little bit on budget
because we're going to have a full

1371
01:30:14,880 --> 01:30:19,760
session on it
a note that

1372
01:30:17,679 --> 01:30:24,960
though the province and fed's fiscal
year runs april 1st to march 31st

1373
01:30:23,040 --> 01:30:29,120
the calendar year is the budget year for
municipalities so when it comes to

1374
01:30:27,199 --> 01:30:32,480
things like grants
it can be a little bit peculiar because

1375
01:30:30,639 --> 01:30:35,520
the if it's the province or the feds
that are providing the grant oftentimes

1376
01:30:33,920 --> 01:30:40,159
the reporting has to be done on their
schedule not on the city's schedule

1377
01:30:38,719 --> 01:30:44,480
somebody made a reference earlier too
about budgeting needing to be balanced

1378
01:30:42,639 --> 01:30:47,360
financial statements have to be audited
so that you know there's nothing funny

1379
01:30:46,000 --> 01:30:51,840
going on
and the auditor can't be a member okay

1380
01:30:49,440 --> 01:30:56,159
sorry can't be a staff person office of
the city so the bookkeeper if you like

1381
01:30:54,639 --> 01:31:00,320
there probably is an auditor on staff
with the city or a series of people in

1382
01:30:58,960 --> 01:31:03,520
the finance department who probably do
really good work and provide all the

1383
01:31:01,760 --> 01:31:08,080
documentation to the auditor but the
auditor themselves is not an employee of

1384
01:31:05,679 --> 01:31:12,320
the city not only that the auditor is
responsible and hired directly by

1385
01:31:09,840 --> 01:31:15,840
council not by the city itself so it's
not the author is not responsible to the

1386
01:31:14,080 --> 01:31:20,560
city manager or the finance director
they're responsible to counsel

1387
01:31:17,760 --> 01:31:25,360
now in in pract for practicality
purposes the auditor will work with city

1388
01:31:24,000 --> 01:31:28,880
administration
significantly closely during the audit

1389
01:31:27,280 --> 01:31:32,320
period
what this means however is when the

1390
01:31:30,480 --> 01:31:36,080
audit happens the report comes to
counsel not specifically to

1391
01:31:34,560 --> 01:31:40,400
administration and then administration
reporting to council so council gets to

1392
01:31:38,239 --> 01:31:43,440
see the finance the financial audit
whether that's the numbers or whether

1393
01:31:41,760 --> 01:31:48,000
it's a process audit and any notes that
might be part of that audit

1394
01:31:45,679 --> 01:31:52,480
it also means that if they want to
council can meet with the auditor in

1395
01:31:49,920 --> 01:31:56,400
camera behind closed doors if there are
questions that they have about the audit

1396
01:31:54,639 --> 01:32:00,000
and recommendations that the auditor may
have said

1397
01:31:57,520 --> 01:32:05,199
now the audit usually differential
legislation will say that the auditor

1398
01:32:02,880 --> 01:32:08,239
can you have to go to market with an
audit

1399
01:32:06,320 --> 01:32:12,639
for the auditing services every x number
of years three four five years so that

1400
01:32:10,480 --> 01:32:15,520
you don't have the same auditor for 40
years in a row

1401
01:32:14,159 --> 01:32:19,040
not conceivably i guess you could but at
least you're making that choice

1402
01:32:17,280 --> 01:32:23,360
to do that
you are as a municipality set on set and

1403
01:32:22,080 --> 01:32:26,880
monitor budget
the for for

1404
01:32:25,280 --> 01:32:30,080
administration that means looking at
things like accounts payable accounts

1405
01:32:28,239 --> 01:32:34,239
receivable all the detail stuff check
registers bank racks all that kind of

1406
01:32:31,600 --> 01:32:37,040
stuff for council however council sets
the budget at the beginning of the year

1407
01:32:35,440 --> 01:32:42,000
that says this is how this is the amount
of money we want to spend and this is in

1408
01:32:39,440 --> 01:32:45,920
large buckets where we want to spend it
so what council should be looking at is

1409
01:32:43,920 --> 01:32:50,560
variance from budget not the budget
itself so we expect it to spend a

1410
01:32:48,400 --> 01:32:54,000
million dollars in this particular line
but we've only spent eight hundred

1411
01:32:51,840 --> 01:32:58,800
thousand dollars why is that or we spent
1.2 million why is that so just looking

1412
01:32:56,560 --> 01:33:02,719
at variants if things are tracking the
way they were budgeted it means that the

1413
01:33:00,800 --> 01:33:05,440
budget is doing what it was supposed to
do

1414
01:33:03,600 --> 01:33:10,320
when the expenses or revenue for that
matter start to deviate from budget it's

1415
01:33:08,080 --> 01:33:13,920
useful at that point for city council to
get involved so they don't you don't

1416
01:33:11,920 --> 01:33:17,440
want city council looking at the
day-to-day week-to-week month-to-month

1417
01:33:15,600 --> 01:33:22,560
numbers you want them looking at the
strategic or the governance perspective

1418
01:33:19,679 --> 01:33:26,480
or what what happens with budget it's
way easier however particularly for a

1419
01:33:24,880 --> 01:33:31,280
new counselor if they're learning their
role to look at a budget line item and

1420
01:33:28,639 --> 01:33:35,360
say hey we're spending way too much on
vehicles our public works trucks are

1421
01:33:33,920 --> 01:33:40,480
costing too much
uh and providing suggestions to that

1422
01:33:37,760 --> 01:33:44,239
that's really not the role the role is
for fleet services are we spending above

1423
01:33:42,560 --> 01:33:47,199
or below where we thought we ought to
now there's often times a really good

1424
01:33:45,840 --> 01:33:50,400
explanation for that
gas prices were really high this year

1425
01:33:48,639 --> 01:33:53,760
for example so we're over on our fuel
amount or

1426
01:33:52,080 --> 01:33:56,960
we had fewer vehicles on the road so our
insurance costs are lower

1427
01:33:55,600 --> 01:34:00,880
so there are often really good reasons
for it but it's that variance from

1428
01:33:58,639 --> 01:34:05,120
budget is really important
when i look at budgeting as a

1429
01:34:02,400 --> 01:34:07,840
municipality there there are
kind of dealt with a bit of this already

1430
01:34:06,719 --> 01:34:11,360
and we're going to deal with this more
detail a little bit later on too there

1431
01:34:09,679 --> 01:34:15,840
are two main budgets budgets the
operating budget and the capital budget

1432
01:34:13,360 --> 01:34:20,320
the operating budget provides
for things that are consumable on a

1433
01:34:18,000 --> 01:34:24,560
day-to-day basis so salaries come in
here those aforementioned paper clips

1434
01:34:22,639 --> 01:34:27,360
come in here keeping the lights on comes
in here and keeping insurance paid does

1435
01:34:26,320 --> 01:34:31,360
too
sort of the stuff that you spend on a

1436
01:34:28,880 --> 01:34:36,800
regular basis as you go capital budgets
are typically larger items larger in

1437
01:34:33,520 --> 01:34:42,159
terms of dollar amounts so capital could
be

1438
01:34:38,880 --> 01:34:46,800
the greater it's going to be the
filter in the pool

1439
01:34:43,760 --> 01:34:49,840
it's going to be a pickup trucks or uh
garbage trucks

1440
01:34:48,080 --> 01:34:52,960
those sort of things which are are
expensive

1441
01:34:51,360 --> 01:34:56,639
and need to be replaced from time to
time so you may know i'm sorry about

1442
01:34:54,960 --> 01:35:00,239
pickup trucks a little while ago you may
know that that pickup truck has to be

1443
01:34:58,159 --> 01:35:04,560
replaced every five years so in your
capital budget you've got every five

1444
01:35:02,159 --> 01:35:07,760
years replace pickup truck so do we put
a little bit of money aside every year

1445
01:35:06,080 --> 01:35:10,639
so that by the time five years rolls
around we have enough money to buy that

1446
01:35:08,960 --> 01:35:13,760
truck maybe you do
if you think about longer term things

1447
01:35:12,159 --> 01:35:17,840
like sewer pipes maybe they have to be
replaced once every 50 years and they're

1448
01:35:15,679 --> 01:35:20,880
really expensive when you do that so do
we need to be putting a little bit of

1449
01:35:18,800 --> 01:35:24,480
money aside every year so we can afford
to replace the sewer pipes

1450
01:35:23,440 --> 01:35:28,159
that's where we start getting into the
next piece here too so those things are

1451
01:35:26,480 --> 01:35:31,520
capital expenses but you may be putting
a little bit of money aside every year

1452
01:35:29,440 --> 01:35:35,040
that's where reserves come in
you could you will there are some

1453
01:35:32,719 --> 01:35:40,080
mandatory reserves that you have to have
and they are often things like

1454
01:35:37,280 --> 01:35:43,360
a vacation allowance vacation reserve
where

1455
01:35:40,960 --> 01:35:47,119
staff are entitled to vacation and that
vacation comes with a salary cost so if

1456
01:35:46,159 --> 01:35:50,880
you're putting a little bit of money
aside every time every month and then

1457
01:35:49,520 --> 01:35:53,760
when the person takes vacation
essentially you're paying them out of

1458
01:35:52,159 --> 01:35:58,480
that reserve budget
other things like that grader or the

1459
01:35:55,679 --> 01:36:03,199
pickup truck they you or a really good
example for large municipalities is a

1460
01:36:01,119 --> 01:36:06,080
fire apparatus you need to buy a new
ladder truck and it's going to cost you

1461
01:36:04,400 --> 01:36:09,040
a million bucks
well you probably don't have a million

1462
01:36:07,119 --> 01:36:13,280
bucks lying around but once every 20
years you could be putting 50 000 aside

1463
01:36:12,239 --> 01:36:15,920
or
and by the time you need it the money's

1464
01:36:15,119 --> 01:36:18,320
there
and so

1465
01:36:16,800 --> 01:36:22,000
it's the dedicated savings but there's
also that optimum balance so you don't

1466
01:36:20,320 --> 01:36:25,840
just keep putting money into that if you
have a child and you've got an education

1467
01:36:24,080 --> 01:36:28,800
savings plan and it's going to cost
fifty thousand dollars to send that kid

1468
01:36:27,360 --> 01:36:31,679
to university
there's not much point putting sixty or

1469
01:36:30,239 --> 01:36:35,440
seventy or eighty thousand dollars in
there so you'll just leave it you'll max

1470
01:36:33,840 --> 01:36:39,440
them out at that optimal balance and
just not touch it

1471
01:36:36,960 --> 01:36:43,040
and so that's the use of reserve so
you've got those three pieces that you

1472
01:36:41,040 --> 01:36:47,440
can use and there's a lot more to this
as i mentioned in um

1473
01:36:45,520 --> 01:36:52,880
in the next session
next piece here is citizen involvement

1474
01:36:49,119 --> 01:36:57,679
with some notes in the chat here
um

1475
01:36:54,639 --> 01:37:02,239
where are we here
how does a council deal with conflict of

1476
01:36:59,760 --> 01:37:02,239
interest

1477
01:37:02,400 --> 01:37:06,639
um
so

1478
01:37:04,800 --> 01:37:10,800
i mean what i may have to do is actually
to make put a little bit more effort

1479
01:37:08,400 --> 01:37:14,000
into conflict of interest into the next
session which is about roles and

1480
01:37:11,840 --> 01:37:17,920
responsibility role clarity i wasn't
going to do that but i've noticed a few

1481
01:37:15,840 --> 01:37:21,360
questions show up around uh
conflict of interest

1482
01:37:19,520 --> 01:37:24,880
oftentimes conflict of interest is
something called pecuniary interest

1483
01:37:22,960 --> 01:37:28,719
which is conflict of interest associated
with money so are there requirements for

1484
01:37:27,040 --> 01:37:33,040
provincial or municipal legislation
typically yes ontario does have a

1485
01:37:31,679 --> 01:37:36,239
well here we go ken has actually
responded to this one about municipal

1486
01:37:34,480 --> 01:37:39,600
conflict of interest act but we will
deal with that one a little bit later if

1487
01:37:37,520 --> 01:37:43,040
that's okay
peop counselors i'm gonna have to look

1488
01:37:41,760 --> 01:37:46,080
at this a bit more but typically
counselors are not allowed to vote on

1489
01:37:44,719 --> 01:37:49,600
anything that would have a financial
impact on them their families or their

1490
01:37:48,480 --> 01:37:55,360
employers
family is usually defined as the person

1491
01:37:53,040 --> 01:37:58,480
obviously their spouse children and
parents sometimes it goes a little bit

1492
01:37:57,119 --> 01:38:03,119
beyond that but in other in some
provinces and the benefit could be

1493
01:38:01,600 --> 01:38:07,679
positive or conceivably it could be a
negative benefit too and there's a bit

1494
01:38:05,040 --> 01:38:12,560
of an interesting quirk to this because
everybody plays property taxes and

1495
01:38:09,840 --> 01:38:15,440
council votes on property taxes so
are they not in conflict of interest

1496
01:38:13,920 --> 01:38:19,840
when they vote to raise property taxes
or decrease property taxes

1497
01:38:17,280 --> 01:38:23,040
and the there's a little nugget in there
that says the conflict of interest

1498
01:38:21,360 --> 01:38:27,440
provisions only apply when there's a
benefit to the to the smaller group

1499
01:38:25,520 --> 01:38:31,119
if it's of benefit or cost to the
community at large

1500
01:38:29,119 --> 01:38:34,480
then there's no conflict of interest and
we'll deal with that just a little bit

1501
01:38:32,320 --> 01:38:37,840
later
you mentioned your integrity

1502
01:38:35,679 --> 01:38:41,040
commissioner is your lawyer so ontario
require i think it requires a lawyer to

1503
01:38:39,440 --> 01:38:44,159
be an integrity commissioner i'm not a
lawyer i have been an integrity

1504
01:38:42,480 --> 01:38:47,760
commissioner i was the integrity
commissioner for the city of saint

1505
01:38:45,440 --> 01:38:51,119
albert north of edmonton which is about
60 or 70 000 people

1506
01:38:51,679 --> 01:38:56,080
someone says donna says i feel people
who are running should take training

1507
01:38:55,119 --> 01:38:59,040
before they put their names on the
ballot yeah absolutely not only that i

1508
01:38:57,920 --> 01:39:01,760
think it should be a test before you're
given your ballot

1509
01:39:02,480 --> 01:39:09,360
asset management program
yeah is there anyone who can run for

1510
01:39:07,360 --> 01:39:11,760
council so the beauty of counselors is
the only difference between account i'm

1511
01:39:10,480 --> 01:39:14,880
going to get this right away the only
difference between you and me and a

1512
01:39:12,960 --> 01:39:18,400
counselor is that they got more votes
than we did they live in the community

1513
01:39:16,719 --> 01:39:22,000
just like the rest of us do they pay
their deposit just like any of the rest

1514
01:39:19,920 --> 01:39:25,199
of us could they're a citizen of canada
presumably they have to be and they they

1515
01:39:24,159 --> 01:39:28,159
just chose to put their name on the
ballot we didn't

1516
01:39:28,800 --> 01:39:33,920
anything else before i move on to
citizen involvement recognizing we're

1517
01:39:32,639 --> 01:39:38,719
coming up to
eight o'clock

1518
01:39:36,239 --> 01:39:42,400
so this isn't really about
what the city can and can't do but i

1519
01:39:40,960 --> 01:39:46,000
think it's important to talk to some of
these things too because it's about how

1520
01:39:43,920 --> 01:39:50,080
we interact with the city
oh here we go so the only fundamental

1521
01:39:47,920 --> 01:39:52,960
difference between a council member and
any other member

1522
01:39:51,440 --> 01:39:57,760
is that they got more votes than we did
that's that's just it they put their

1523
01:39:54,000 --> 01:40:03,679
name on their balance so there is
often no formal requirement for for

1524
01:40:01,440 --> 01:40:08,080
council or orientation to actually
attend an orientation unless the city

1525
01:40:06,320 --> 01:40:12,080
decides that there is so this is the
sort of thing that would show up in a

1526
01:40:09,280 --> 01:40:15,600
code of conduct code of ethics by law
that thou shalt show up

1527
01:40:13,760 --> 01:40:18,639
the municipal legislation is often
written such that and it may be in

1528
01:40:16,960 --> 01:40:22,960
ontario it may not be wrong
says that the municipality has to offer

1529
01:40:21,199 --> 01:40:26,080
an orientation but it doesn't actually
say anybody has to show up but that's so

1530
01:40:24,880 --> 01:40:29,840
that's where the code of conduct comes
in and says thou shalt show up

1531
01:40:28,080 --> 01:40:33,360
there is no requirement for candidate
training

1532
01:40:30,800 --> 01:40:36,159
i we do a bunch of it but we talk about
it

1533
01:40:34,159 --> 01:40:38,719
the desire for that is either to confirm
in those people who are running for the

1534
01:40:37,440 --> 01:40:42,239
right reasons that they are running for
the right reason to maybe dissuade those

1535
01:40:41,040 --> 01:40:45,360
people who are running for the wrong
reasons

1536
01:40:43,280 --> 01:40:49,440
and to illuminate to people what the job
actually is so when we do candidate

1537
01:40:47,199 --> 01:40:53,280
training we usually ask an outgoing
member of council who's declared that

1538
01:40:51,360 --> 01:40:56,639
they're not running again to participate
and actually speak to what the reality

1539
01:40:54,719 --> 01:41:01,840
of the situation is
something i would note here about uh

1540
01:40:59,600 --> 01:41:06,400
just the vagaries of the year because
january to december is the is the

1541
01:41:04,080 --> 01:41:09,679
council year or the fiscal year that
means the new budget and starts january

1542
01:41:08,639 --> 01:41:14,560
1st
if you have fall elections you bring in

1543
01:41:12,320 --> 01:41:18,080
brand new people who conceivably have no
never worked in local government who may

1544
01:41:16,719 --> 01:41:21,920
have never been elected to anything in
their lives who all of a sudden have to

1545
01:41:20,159 --> 01:41:25,760
vote on a multi-million dollar budget
without any real knowledge of how to do

1546
01:41:23,679 --> 01:41:29,040
it and to me that's one of the drawbacks
of the way our local government system

1547
01:41:27,280 --> 01:41:34,560
is set up in canada so this isn't
anything that is specific to uh to

1548
01:41:31,360 --> 01:41:37,760
ontario it is something that does
that does show up however

1549
01:41:37,920 --> 01:41:42,080
so government doesn't stop just because
of the election cycle so there's a

1550
01:41:40,560 --> 01:41:46,719
difference too between the head of that
beast the council and everybody else who

1551
01:41:44,880 --> 01:41:50,719
working from the city manager on down
they just have to keep on going

1552
01:41:48,800 --> 01:41:55,440
another principle here and one of mine
anyway is if i look at a council

1553
01:41:53,520 --> 01:41:58,880
and this is this is accountability and
transparency does council keep

1554
01:41:57,360 --> 01:42:02,960
everything public unless there's a
reason not to or

1555
01:42:00,960 --> 01:42:06,480
does council keep everything private
unless they actually have to release it

1556
01:42:04,960 --> 01:42:10,239
now you'd have to challenge individual
members of council with that but it does

1557
01:42:08,000 --> 01:42:14,880
become cultural as well
because of the work that council members

1558
01:42:12,159 --> 01:42:19,040
do in closed session or in camera
they by default know more about what's

1559
01:42:17,360 --> 01:42:22,880
going on stratfor than anybody else
including their spouses hopefully

1560
01:42:21,360 --> 01:42:26,480
because they are privy to the
information that's happening that

1561
01:42:25,119 --> 01:42:30,960
solicitor client privilege that
negotiation on land sales

1562
01:42:28,400 --> 01:42:35,199
all the the evaluation of the city
manager all those things happen

1563
01:42:32,800 --> 01:42:39,280
privately and so the members of council
know more about it

1564
01:42:36,560 --> 01:42:43,440
but my principle would be and i see this
too differently on candidates than on

1565
01:42:41,280 --> 01:42:46,880
counselors candidates are all big on
transparency because they don't think

1566
01:42:45,440 --> 01:42:51,760
we're having to see enough of what's
going on in the city however once people

1567
01:42:50,080 --> 01:42:56,400
get on the other side of that table and
realize why things are the way they are

1568
01:42:54,239 --> 01:42:59,040
they may not go all the way to say you
know what we need to keep a whole lot

1569
01:42:57,520 --> 01:43:02,560
more things quiet than i thought we did
or private than i thought we did but

1570
01:43:01,040 --> 01:43:06,400
they do start to understand why things
are the way they are and one of the

1571
01:43:04,320 --> 01:43:09,760
frustrations might be that
because things are confidential you

1572
01:43:08,239 --> 01:43:12,800
can't actually be told why they're
confidential just that they're

1573
01:43:10,800 --> 01:43:15,679
confidential
another note here is about something

1574
01:43:14,400 --> 01:43:18,239
when we do investigations into
municipalities that aren't working well

1575
01:43:16,960 --> 01:43:21,440
we have this saying about it's never
about what it's about

1576
01:43:19,840 --> 01:43:25,280
we're often addressing the symptoms of
something rather than the cause of

1577
01:43:22,800 --> 01:43:28,320
something and so if we we often do
interviews as parts of these things but

1578
01:43:26,880 --> 01:43:31,920
we often hear
essentially the same circumstance

1579
01:43:29,920 --> 01:43:35,679
described in different ways
and

1580
01:43:33,199 --> 01:43:39,760
things become self-evident facts
anytime there's a facebook group

1581
01:43:37,199 --> 01:43:43,760
involved i'm suspicious for example or
anytime there's that group of

1582
01:43:42,239 --> 01:43:48,400
you typically the old fellows who gather
down at the amw for coffee on tuesday

1583
01:43:45,679 --> 01:43:52,560
mornings talking about common sense
they become self-evidently obvious

1584
01:43:50,639 --> 01:43:55,840
because they're talking to themselves
so

1585
01:43:54,159 --> 01:44:00,000
my encouragement in all these sorts of
things is get to know what how the other

1586
01:43:57,840 --> 01:44:03,840
half lives or what the other side thinks
and that we'll talk a lot more about

1587
01:44:01,520 --> 01:44:06,480
that in this session on engagement
and finally where you stand depends on

1588
01:44:05,360 --> 01:44:10,000
where you sit
and this is the piece about

1589
01:44:08,320 --> 01:44:14,320
what you see as a candidate or perhaps
as a citizen those of you who are here

1590
01:44:12,000 --> 01:44:17,760
versus those who are council members and
i don't think we have any council

1591
01:44:15,360 --> 01:44:21,679
members left here today but those who
are members of city council may see the

1592
01:44:20,080 --> 01:44:25,119
same issue from a slightly different
perspective because they're sitting on a

1593
01:44:23,360 --> 01:44:29,360
different side of the table
not better not worse just different and

1594
01:44:27,360 --> 01:44:32,480
therefore able to perhaps some provide
some rationale to why things are the way

1595
01:44:31,119 --> 01:44:35,520
they are
and then some of it becomes cultural too

1596
01:44:34,000 --> 01:44:38,320
so if transparency if there's a
municipality that doesn't really fall on

1597
01:44:37,199 --> 01:44:42,320
the side of transparency or
accountability at some point it's always

1598
01:44:40,560 --> 01:44:46,159
been that way and that's where culture
takes hold and it's really hard to

1599
01:44:43,840 --> 01:44:49,760
change culture once it's ingrained first
of all you have to realize it's there

1600
01:44:48,159 --> 01:44:53,040
the only way you realize it's theirs by
looking somewhere else to find out what

1601
01:44:51,440 --> 01:44:56,400
the culture is there so those are some
of the principles

1602
01:44:55,040 --> 01:44:59,440
i kind of already dealt with a bunch of
these as well but

1603
01:44:58,400 --> 01:45:03,040
the if we talk about some of the
concepts here about the tools that are

1604
01:45:01,040 --> 01:45:06,400
available to you is accountability and
transparency now that is something that

1605
01:45:04,560 --> 01:45:10,080
is required of you
not you specifically but of stratfor

1606
01:45:09,199 --> 01:45:14,000
and
you can't again probably beat this one

1607
01:45:12,159 --> 01:45:18,080
to death already about uh transparency
and accountability the use of in-camera

1608
01:45:16,320 --> 01:45:21,360
sessions they're uh they're a legitimate
tool in local government in fact all

1609
01:45:19,600 --> 01:45:24,159
governments if you think about it
local government is the only order of

1610
01:45:22,800 --> 01:45:27,199
government in canada which does most of
their business in public

1611
01:45:25,600 --> 01:45:30,480
you think of a caucus
caucus and cabinet solidarity at the

1612
01:45:28,880 --> 01:45:34,159
provincial or federal orders of
government and almost nothing happens in

1613
01:45:32,239 --> 01:45:37,600
public if you watch what's going on in
the legislature and house of commons a

1614
01:45:35,920 --> 01:45:40,320
lot of that just seems to be for show
it's question periods sound bites that

1615
01:45:39,360 --> 01:45:44,560
sort of thing
however local government has to do so

1616
01:45:42,159 --> 01:45:47,760
much more in public than the other
orders do

1617
01:45:45,920 --> 01:45:50,719
sometimes that raises the ire of people
too because the same discussions that

1618
01:45:49,360 --> 01:45:54,159
would happen behind closed doors and
nobody's watching are now happening in

1619
01:45:52,480 --> 01:45:56,880
public and people are standing have to
be accountable for some of the things

1620
01:45:55,280 --> 01:46:01,440
that they say
when it does come to closed session

1621
01:45:59,280 --> 01:46:06,239
we use the term land labor and legal and
that's really simplistic but there are

1622
01:46:04,320 --> 01:46:09,360
there are very limited topics that can
actually be discussed in a closed

1623
01:46:07,760 --> 01:46:13,360
session and they do kind of generally
deal with things like

1624
01:46:10,960 --> 01:46:17,600
what we do with land purchasing or
zoning or or

1625
01:46:15,040 --> 01:46:22,320
selling land or labor uh union
negotiations or the the city manager's

1626
01:46:20,159 --> 01:46:26,080
annual performance review or legal if
the city is being sued or wants to sue

1627
01:46:24,080 --> 01:46:29,119
somebody else or advice from the lawyer
those are the sorts of things that often

1628
01:46:27,600 --> 01:46:33,440
happen in camera
however only the discussion can happen

1629
01:46:31,280 --> 01:46:38,639
in camera if there's a decision that has
to be made that has to be made in public

1630
01:46:35,600 --> 01:46:42,960
typically the only decision only emotion
or resolution that can be provided in

1631
01:46:40,400 --> 01:46:45,520
camera is to come out of in camera
and so that's the only one that's

1632
01:46:43,920 --> 01:46:48,000
actually recorded on in minutes of the
meeting

1633
01:46:46,960 --> 01:46:51,119
and
some musicalities go further on this

1634
01:46:49,520 --> 01:46:55,520
than others but the reason for going in
camera has to be provided and that

1635
01:46:53,280 --> 01:46:58,960
usually that has to include a reference
to exceptions or exemptions from

1636
01:46:57,199 --> 01:47:01,920
disclosure in the freedom of information
act

1637
01:46:59,760 --> 01:47:06,000
some go further than that and actually
say what the topic was in general

1638
01:47:03,760 --> 01:47:09,679
without giving away too much and some of
them will provide names of who actually

1639
01:47:07,920 --> 01:47:13,679
was there the assumption being that
members of city council were there

1640
01:47:11,920 --> 01:47:17,840
but they're the only ones who you should
assume that on

1641
01:47:14,960 --> 01:47:21,199
city manager is often there some members
of city manager may be there to provide

1642
01:47:19,440 --> 01:47:25,360
advice there may be some external people
for example i go i go into in camera if

1643
01:47:24,080 --> 01:47:28,960
we're dealing with an organizational
review for example and sometimes my name

1644
01:47:27,440 --> 01:47:31,920
shows up on the minutes and sometimes it
doesn't

1645
01:47:30,639 --> 01:47:36,719
we're going to deal with engagement
specifically in session three

1646
01:47:33,920 --> 01:47:41,360
but recognizing that engagement is a
two-way process it talks about how you

1647
01:47:39,600 --> 01:47:45,520
deal with a city and how the city deals
with you whereas communication is more

1648
01:47:43,679 --> 01:47:49,040
of a one-way it's the city telling you
what's going on there's something called

1649
01:47:47,199 --> 01:47:53,440
an engaged continuum of engagement
that's produced by the international

1650
01:47:51,199 --> 01:47:56,800
association of public participation or
iap2

1651
01:47:55,040 --> 01:48:00,480
and it goes all the way from one end
about informing people so if you think

1652
01:47:58,639 --> 01:48:03,520
about what's on the city's website or a
newsletter that you may get or something

1653
01:48:02,159 --> 01:48:08,560
that shows up on a sign and it's just
pushing information to you that's one

1654
01:48:05,520 --> 01:48:12,000
way the other end of this full spectrum
is actually empowering somebody else to

1655
01:48:10,239 --> 01:48:16,159
make a decision so that's real
engagement but because we work because

1656
01:48:14,480 --> 01:48:21,119
local government is government and the
final decision is councils it doesn't we

1657
01:48:18,880 --> 01:48:25,600
don't go we don't go quite that far
council can take advice from people or

1658
01:48:23,840 --> 01:48:29,440
groups and that's about as far down the
continuum we get i made a reference

1659
01:48:27,360 --> 01:48:33,760
earlier to council and how they deal
with their own remuneration

1660
01:48:31,360 --> 01:48:37,199
and that's where i see as close to
full-on engagement

1661
01:48:35,360 --> 01:48:40,239
as you get the final decision of course
still resting with council so those are

1662
01:48:39,040 --> 01:48:44,480
the topics we're going to talk about
next time

1663
01:48:42,080 --> 01:48:47,600
if we think about engagement
i started off this whole session but if

1664
01:48:46,159 --> 01:48:51,679
nobody lived where you do there would be
no need for stratfor there were no need

1665
01:48:49,280 --> 01:48:55,760
for local government no need for staff
no need for budgets and property taxes

1666
01:48:54,000 --> 01:48:59,520
so if you think about ways that you can
engage with your city these are some of

1667
01:48:57,840 --> 01:49:04,880
the obvious ones perhaps some of the
less obvious ones of course there's a

1668
01:49:02,560 --> 01:49:07,840
huge referendum that happens every four
years a little bit more if there's a

1669
01:49:06,320 --> 01:49:10,880
by-election
somebody made a reference earlier about

1670
01:49:09,040 --> 01:49:14,880
whether these are popularity contests
the larger the municipality the less

1671
01:49:12,639 --> 01:49:18,960
it's a popularity contest in small
villages it often is a popularity

1672
01:49:17,119 --> 01:49:21,599
contest or it's completely the opposite
i hate that guy so i'm not voting for

1673
01:49:20,400 --> 01:49:24,719
them because i went to school with them
we had a fight out by the bike racks in

1674
01:49:23,199 --> 01:49:28,159
1964
so something to that effect

1675
01:49:26,560 --> 01:49:32,639
you can get involved in council
committees council meetings and

1676
01:49:29,599 --> 01:49:36,159
committees are by default open
so we call them public meetings because

1677
01:49:34,719 --> 01:49:39,920
the public can watch government being
done not because the gov public can

1678
01:49:37,840 --> 01:49:44,239
participate but it's just
being able to watch it

1679
01:49:41,599 --> 01:49:47,520
some of the council committees will have
citizen reps on them

1680
01:49:45,920 --> 01:49:50,560
oftentimes the advisory committee is an
economic development advisory committee

1681
01:49:48,960 --> 01:49:53,599
or a recreation advisory committee will
have people on it

1682
01:49:52,080 --> 01:49:57,840
you can actually go and speak to council
as a registered delegation which often

1683
01:49:56,000 --> 01:50:01,440
you would have to provide a presentation
topic you want to talk about you'd be

1684
01:49:59,280 --> 01:50:05,840
given x number of x number of minutes to
provide your presentation and maybe some

1685
01:50:03,599 --> 01:50:09,679
time for questions afterwards
there's also public hearing statutory

1686
01:50:08,159 --> 01:50:13,119
sometimes public hearings are required
by statute

1687
01:50:11,280 --> 01:50:15,920
so in order for a bylaw to happen
between first and second reading or

1688
01:50:14,800 --> 01:50:19,280
between second and third reading a
camera which you actually have to have

1689
01:50:17,760 --> 01:50:23,840
an open hearing in which case anybody
who wants to have a say can

1690
01:50:22,159 --> 01:50:27,280
some of these are non-statutory public
hearings which means

1691
01:50:25,360 --> 01:50:31,119
that the cities just decided that it'd
be a good idea to hear from people and

1692
01:50:29,119 --> 01:50:34,000
so the council has said yes for this
even though we don't have to we're going

1693
01:50:32,719 --> 01:50:38,719
to open this
this issue to a public hearing

1694
01:50:36,239 --> 01:50:42,159
sometimes there are open houses at which
the same four people generally appear

1695
01:50:40,560 --> 01:50:45,920
some fewer and fewer places are using
those they can be virtual or they can be

1696
01:50:44,080 --> 01:50:49,840
real they can have flip charts and
notice boards about a particular topic

1697
01:50:48,239 --> 01:50:53,040
neighborhood revitalization or something
like that where you want to you want to

1698
01:50:51,360 --> 01:50:57,119
meet and talk about something local
and then of course these are your

1699
01:50:54,239 --> 01:51:01,679
counselors you can contact them directly
be nice to them and they'll uh get more

1700
01:51:00,000 --> 01:51:04,560
flies with sugar than we do honey than
you do with uh screwed that one up

1701
01:51:03,119 --> 01:51:06,960
completely than you do with vinegar
anyway

1702
01:51:05,679 --> 01:51:10,400
so those are just ways that you can
engage

1703
01:51:08,560 --> 01:51:14,000
just before we get on with what's going
on because we're coming to an end the

1704
01:51:12,000 --> 01:51:16,719
end now there's a few more questions
here i'll get to

1705
01:51:16,880 --> 01:51:22,560
uh or comments some of these are
actually comments uh

1706
01:51:20,560 --> 01:51:26,560
conflict of interest acts says
particularly pecuniary interest

1707
01:51:24,960 --> 01:51:30,080
and how you deal with it so we will
actually deal with that one of the

1708
01:51:28,239 --> 01:51:34,400
interesting things about even peculiary
interests where financial conflict of

1709
01:51:31,840 --> 01:51:38,560
interest if for example i is a citizen
who is also a city councilor own a piece

1710
01:51:36,239 --> 01:51:43,360
of land and i want to say subdivide it
put two two infill houses onto one

1711
01:51:41,440 --> 01:51:46,880
as a member of city council i can't vote
on that decision

1712
01:51:44,639 --> 01:51:52,000
but as the land owner i still retain my
rights as the landowner and as a citizen

1713
01:51:49,840 --> 01:51:56,719
so i could actually get up from my
council seat walk around sit down in on

1714
01:51:54,719 --> 01:52:00,639
the in the council chamber and present
to council on that topic and be present

1715
01:51:58,960 --> 01:52:06,719
through that debate because i don't lose
my rights as a citizen in the landlord

1716
01:52:03,119 --> 01:52:09,840
so just a bit of a nuance to that
where are we

1717
01:52:08,080 --> 01:52:13,360
commonwealth women's parliamentarians of
canada have good training materials

1718
01:52:11,599 --> 01:52:16,000
called she should run they do
the federation of canadian

1719
01:52:14,400 --> 01:52:19,840
municipalities has good material on
their website too

1720
01:52:17,599 --> 01:52:24,000
and sometimes provincial municipal
associations do as well

1721
01:52:22,000 --> 01:52:27,360
they're looking for a lot more
inclusivity and diversity on municipal

1722
01:52:26,320 --> 01:52:32,080
councils
so there's a lot of work and effort and

1723
01:52:29,119 --> 01:52:35,679
money being put into promoting the role
to those particular groups

1724
01:52:34,000 --> 01:52:39,360
also note here from vicki about gray and
bruce counties offering training to

1725
01:52:37,440 --> 01:52:44,480
female candidates about what it means to
be a municipal counselor

1726
01:52:41,119 --> 01:52:48,159
elect her now dot ca
somebody note from jay decisions in

1727
01:52:46,320 --> 01:52:52,719
camera are secret and not transparent
have happened what are the discipline

1728
01:52:50,239 --> 01:52:55,199
measures if that is done
that's where you would get your

1729
01:52:53,760 --> 01:52:59,679
integrity commissioner involved most
likely it's really difficult to prove

1730
01:52:57,360 --> 01:53:03,920
however that that happens
because the informal decision if you

1731
01:53:01,360 --> 01:53:06,960
like a straw vote sometimes does happen
but the formal decision has to be done

1732
01:53:05,760 --> 01:53:10,159
publicly
one of the things we have found whenever

1733
01:53:08,480 --> 01:53:13,599
we do investigations the first place we
start to look is what's got out of in

1734
01:53:11,920 --> 01:53:16,560
camera that shouldn't have got out of in
camera

1735
01:53:15,119 --> 01:53:19,440
whether that's something verbal or
something written you're not supposed to

1736
01:53:17,920 --> 01:53:23,840
take notes you're not supposed to record
meetings somebody invariably puts their

1737
01:53:22,080 --> 01:53:26,480
iphone on the table and turns it on
especially if we're in a virtual

1738
01:53:25,199 --> 01:53:29,520
environment and nobody can really tell
what else is going on so that's one of

1739
01:53:28,400 --> 01:53:32,800
the first places we look at a
dysfunctional municipality but what's

1740
01:53:30,960 --> 01:53:38,320
come out of in camera that shouldn't so
it's to me that's one of the primary

1741
01:53:35,840 --> 01:53:42,320
good governance concepts is
what needs to be what happens in camera

1742
01:53:40,000 --> 01:53:46,560
needs to stay in camera
someone said i think counselor henderson

1743
01:53:44,560 --> 01:53:50,880
and ceo thompson are still online if so
i'm not looking at very many people but

1744
01:53:48,000 --> 01:53:54,719
that's fantastic if they are
and a note about who is to organize

1745
01:53:52,560 --> 01:53:59,760
training of city for upcoming counselors
before the name goes on the ballot

1746
01:53:57,760 --> 01:54:04,159
so this is one of those places
again a member of a citizen who meets

1747
01:54:02,480 --> 01:54:07,040
the criteria for being eligible for
nomination can put their name on the

1748
01:54:05,920 --> 01:54:09,920
ballot if they can come up with the
signatures in the deposit they don't

1749
01:54:08,560 --> 01:54:12,800
move out of town
um

1750
01:54:11,040 --> 01:54:16,159
anybody can do that and from then so
some of these websites that people have

1751
01:54:14,480 --> 01:54:19,280
suggested are places that you can get
training

1752
01:54:17,280 --> 01:54:22,880
sometimes municipalities will put on
training for candidates

1753
01:54:21,199 --> 01:54:26,719
we do a lot of that
training for we do training typically

1754
01:54:24,719 --> 01:54:31,040
before nomination date
so they can choose whether to continue

1755
01:54:28,639 --> 01:54:34,800
with nomination or choose not to by the
time nomination day has passed and their

1756
01:54:32,960 --> 01:54:39,920
name is on the ballot they bought signs
they're kind of committed so

1757
01:54:36,960 --> 01:54:43,199
we typically do it before that happens
their ongoing professional development

1758
01:54:41,599 --> 01:54:46,560
for council is important too because
they will usually do an orientation

1759
01:54:45,040 --> 01:54:49,920
right after the election within a few
days of the election and it's the sort

1760
01:54:48,400 --> 01:54:52,639
of stuff we're talking about today about
a whole lot more and in a whole lot more

1761
01:54:51,679 --> 01:54:54,960
detail
and there's no way they can remember it

1762
01:54:54,159 --> 01:54:58,800
all
so some municipalities will do ongoing

1763
01:54:57,599 --> 01:55:02,880
professional development and have a
budget in the in the budget for training

1764
01:55:01,119 --> 01:55:05,920
or counselors so they'll bring in a
registered parliamentarian to talk about

1765
01:55:04,480 --> 01:55:09,199
meeting procedure or they're bringing
someone like me to talk about good

1766
01:55:07,520 --> 01:55:12,719
governance or they'll bring in somebody
who's got a local local bent to talk

1767
01:55:11,280 --> 01:55:16,800
about local issues
others will there are sometimes

1768
01:55:14,560 --> 01:55:20,560
municipal associations offer elected
official training programs there are

1769
01:55:18,800 --> 01:55:24,080
provincial and national conferences as
well that people can go to so there are

1770
01:55:21,840 --> 01:55:27,840
all kinds of ways that the real public
servant who wants to serve their

1771
01:55:25,679 --> 01:55:30,719
community better can do it and most of
them do it to some extent or another

1772
01:55:29,760 --> 01:55:34,159
there are
some caveats to that sometimes city

1773
01:55:32,560 --> 01:55:37,440
councilors want to go and do a like a
corporate directorship and have the city

1774
01:55:35,920 --> 01:55:40,159
pay for that i'm a little iffy on
whether that's a legitimate expense or

1775
01:55:38,880 --> 01:55:44,639
an mba
some of them will want to do a program

1776
01:55:42,239 --> 01:55:47,760
of study and sometimes it's legitimate
but that's ultimately up to council to

1777
01:55:45,920 --> 01:55:51,599
decide and some of those things can be
uh laid out in policy too

1778
01:55:49,920 --> 01:55:56,159
a couple of notes here oversight
mechanisms as watchdogs so you've got

1779
01:55:54,080 --> 01:56:01,040
your integrity commissioner members of
council are watchdogs on each other will

1780
01:55:58,960 --> 01:56:04,159
you know when we deal with of interest
it's the whole question on ethics

1781
01:56:02,800 --> 01:56:07,760
actually i'm doing an ethics session in
about an hour for a chamber of commerce

1782
01:56:06,320 --> 01:56:10,800
board
uh and so there's a lot more that can be

1783
01:56:09,440 --> 01:56:14,159
dealt with that but
the

1784
01:56:12,080 --> 01:56:18,080
uh the city also retains final
decision-making authority and so that

1785
01:56:16,080 --> 01:56:22,239
oversight has to be there as does a
relationship then between city council

1786
01:56:20,080 --> 01:56:26,840
and city administration particularly the
city manager does the city manager have

1787
01:56:24,639 --> 01:56:30,239
that real or
uh

1788
01:56:28,719 --> 01:56:34,719
perceived
ability to push back on members of city

1789
01:56:32,320 --> 01:56:39,679
council to remind them of things to talk
about things that perhaps are starting

1790
01:56:37,280 --> 01:56:43,360
to go astray a lot of times they do they
wouldn't happen in a council meeting

1791
01:56:40,800 --> 01:56:45,920
usually it'll be quiet conversation
maybe it's in camera maybe it's a

1792
01:56:44,800 --> 01:56:50,080
one-on-one
those sort of things that would happen

1793
01:56:48,400 --> 01:56:53,840
so many notes here too about some
sessions have been offered by sitting

1794
01:56:51,440 --> 01:56:56,560
count city counselors collaboratively
and they're a great source of

1795
01:56:55,119 --> 01:57:01,280
information and i mentioned when we do
candidate orientations we often bring in

1796
01:56:58,400 --> 01:57:06,960
a a retired counselor to do that because
nobody knows it like they do or

1797
01:57:04,239 --> 01:57:09,119
do i do certainly agree with that
somebody says bill says have to go at

1798
01:57:08,320 --> 01:57:12,480
eight
good night bill we're gonna leave oh

1799
01:57:11,040 --> 01:57:17,280
it's eight o'clock right now i forgot i
didn't actually realize what time it was

1800
01:57:13,920 --> 01:57:17,280
just going through your questions here

1801
01:57:17,840 --> 01:57:24,000
so if we if we look at that that's
something leave the questions for there

1802
01:57:22,000 --> 01:57:28,320
and next time we get together we're
going to talk about role clarity so it's

1803
01:57:25,920 --> 01:57:32,000
council talk start big and work down so
we're going to talk about council is the

1804
01:57:29,599 --> 01:57:35,760
collective we're going to talk about the
office of the councillor the office of

1805
01:57:33,599 --> 01:57:39,760
the mayor counselor and mayor are very
closely related they're both counselors

1806
01:57:37,760 --> 01:57:42,400
and then we're going to talk about the
administration

1807
01:57:41,199 --> 01:57:45,920
typically
but potentially some others as well i

1808
01:57:44,159 --> 01:57:49,199
might throw a little bit in there too
to expand a little bit on conflict of

1809
01:57:47,599 --> 01:57:52,639
interest but cuny your interest just
because a bunch of you have brought it

1810
01:57:50,400 --> 01:57:56,719
up tonight and it wasn't something that
really fits in budget or into engagement

1811
01:57:55,119 --> 01:58:00,080
so i'll see we can throw that a little
bit of that into what i will say as i

1812
01:57:58,560 --> 01:58:02,880
was planning these sessions is this is
very similar to what we would do

1813
01:58:01,920 --> 01:58:07,520
uh
council orientation

1814
01:58:05,679 --> 01:58:10,719
whole lot more details not to be quite
circumspect on what it is we actually

1815
01:58:09,199 --> 01:58:15,840
provide
so with that in mind the last item on

1816
01:58:13,280 --> 01:58:18,560
note here thanks for the answers ken
thank you ken you and i should have

1817
01:58:17,280 --> 01:58:23,360
another conversation we've got a ton of
questions here i appreciate the input to

1818
01:58:20,480 --> 01:58:26,480
this before we before we pass before we
pass on that's the wrong way to say it

1819
01:58:24,639 --> 01:58:29,840
before we leave this session
are there things that have worked for

1820
01:58:28,639 --> 01:58:33,280
you that
now in terms of just the structure of

1821
01:58:31,280 --> 01:58:36,480
this because i don't do this very often
are there things in terms of structure

1822
01:58:34,719 --> 01:58:39,679
that need to change i don't know if
anybody has any thoughts on things

1823
01:58:37,840 --> 01:58:43,119
they'd like to see done differently or
exactly the same

1824
01:58:41,199 --> 01:58:46,400
things you liked or didn't like
you can put it in the chat or you just

1825
01:58:44,960 --> 01:58:49,840
blurt it out
and as we go that i'm just going to move

1826
01:58:48,000 --> 01:58:52,880
to my last slide here
which is sorry

1827
01:58:53,840 --> 01:59:00,400
which is just my uh contact information
if you want it

1828
01:58:58,560 --> 01:59:03,520
the mural behind actually an interesting
story here the mural behind this you

1829
01:59:02,080 --> 01:59:07,520
can't really see very well actually it
was on the wall of town office in hay

1830
01:59:05,360 --> 01:59:10,080
river northwest territories because i
get everywhere

1831
01:59:11,760 --> 01:59:19,920
uh okay so some nice comments great
comments in the chat there's any last

1832
01:59:16,719 --> 01:59:19,920
comments before we wrap up

1833
01:59:21,360 --> 01:59:26,400
all right i gave you all your five
seconds you're all off ken you had your

1834
01:59:25,040 --> 01:59:29,280
hand up thank you you're the first and
only person thus far who's actually put

1835
01:59:27,599 --> 01:59:32,960
his hand up go ahead
you are muted though so

1836
01:59:31,360 --> 01:59:35,440
oh is this oh that's just a clap you
didn't actually want to say anything

1837
01:59:34,080 --> 01:59:38,159
it's just applause
oh thank you

1838
01:59:36,639 --> 01:59:40,639
so really that's what i was after i was
just pulling so that you actually have

1839
01:59:39,360 --> 01:59:44,080
to say something so i feel good about
myself

1840
01:59:42,159 --> 01:59:48,800
so you've got my contact information
here if there is something that comes up

1841
01:59:46,960 --> 01:59:51,440
tonight as you're ruminating over this
over the next few days and you want to

1842
01:59:50,080 --> 01:59:55,360
ask me a question or things that ought
to be on a future session let me know

1843
01:59:53,760 --> 02:00:00,320
as i started the beginning i really
applaud the city for

1844
01:59:57,599 --> 02:00:04,159
uh going with this and doing something
because this isn't controlled so you can

1845
02:00:02,400 --> 02:00:06,800
ask whatever questions you want and talk
about topics that you want to talk about

1846
02:00:05,679 --> 02:00:09,679
because i'll talk about them all because
i really like this sector

1847
02:00:08,639 --> 02:00:12,320
so
keep that in mind if you do have

1848
02:00:11,040 --> 02:00:16,960
anything you want to talk about in the
next little while please contact me if

1849
02:00:15,199 --> 02:00:19,520
not it sounds like we'll see some or all
of you in the next couple of weeks from

1850
02:00:18,639 --> 02:00:23,119
now
if you enjoyed this and sounds like some

1851
02:00:21,280 --> 02:00:26,400
of you did at least and a lot of you are
still here please let other people know

1852
02:00:24,880 --> 02:00:29,679
the link and everything i think is on
the city's website

1853
02:00:27,840 --> 02:00:32,880
and
have people come out we i'm quite happy

1854
02:00:31,360 --> 02:00:36,000
to talk about the state of local
government

1855
02:00:34,080 --> 02:00:39,440
in ontario specifically but in canada
more generally so

1856
02:00:37,840 --> 02:00:43,520
if there's nothing else i will bid you
all good night

1857
02:00:40,960 --> 02:00:47,599
and stop the recording and we'll see
where it all goes

1858
02:00:45,920 --> 02:00:52,280
thanks so much
thanks everybody have a good night

1859
02:00:49,280 --> 02:00:52,280
everybody