[1:35] Welcome, everyone. It is Tuesday, January 13, from a special
[1:39] meeting of the council of municipality estrothroy. Caradock, roll call.
[1:44] All are present. Are there any declarations of pecuniary? Interest.
[1:54] Order to approve the agenda. I'm just going to ask
[1:56] when we get there that we let the police service
[1:59] present their budget before I speak to ours. Seem to
[2:02] want to keep the police service sitting around. We'll make
[2:05] that amendment. Motion to approve the agenda as amended. Deputy
[2:13] mayor. Seconded by councilor Pam in. All in favor? A
[2:17] motion carries. Item four, appointment of a chair. I'm actually
[2:21] not going to do that initially when this went out.
[2:24] I thought we'd be sitting as the budget committee, but
[2:27] we're actually. Sitting as a special meet at a council,
[2:30] so when I do want to speak, I'll. Be going
[2:32] down there, actually. The deputy mayor will act as chair
[2:35] for that portion of the meeting. Motion to go into
[2:39] closed session. Yeah, go ahead. Are we on or off?
[2:45] We're all in. I just asked for clarification on. That
[2:48] when you say you're going to come down, is that
[2:50] just to make a motion? No. You partake in the
[2:54] conversation? When I can speak from there. You just can't
[2:58] make the motion from there. Couch. I don't hate to
[3:04] use the word optics. You should sit down there and.
[3:08] Support staff. It is my proposed budget, so I just
[3:11] thought in order for things to move more slowly. Better.
[3:14] I'll just go sit down there when we present. The
[3:17] budget. I'm just going to ask for clarification. Yeah, go
[3:20] ahead. So there's no rule that says I have to
[3:22] do that. I'm just doing. Better. Yeah, okay, I got
[3:28] it. Because you're just presenting today. I'm just presenting councilor.
[3:31] That's why I decide to support and make it easier.
[3:34] I would do so. Motion to go in a closed
[3:38] session at 432 for the following what I'd have pursued
[3:42] is section 239. Two h. For the. Municipal act, as
[3:48] amended, regarding information explicitly supplied and confidence to the municipality
[3:53] by another level of government. M one item. Pursuant to
[3:57] section 239, two B of the act, as amended, regarding
[4:00] personal matters about identifiable individual. Individuals, including municipal or local
[4:05] board employees. Motion to go into close. That remedy. Site
[4:09] client, councilor Hippo, all in favor? That motion carries. Thank
[4:12] you.
[15:39] Everyone. Closed session adjourned. At 04:43 p.m. an. Open session.
[15:47] Resume council met in closed session and considered matters that
[15:51] it's not going to do so under the municipal act,
[15:54] and it's listed on tonight's council agenda. During the closed
[15:59] session. I have a few connections. One item. Regarding information
[16:03] supplied and competency municipality by another level of government. Direction
[16:11] was given to staff. One item presumed is section 239,
[16:15] two B of the act regarding personal matters about identifiable
[16:19] individual, including municipal employees. Direction was given to staff. Motion
[16:25] of the direction and closed session be approved. Deputy mayor,
[16:31] second by councilor pellet. All in favor? Motion carries. We
[16:37] are now going to recess. For. Until 515 or 05:00.
[16:44] Till 05:00. Recess until 05:00. All right. He goes pitball.
[16:53] Second by councilor can. All in favor ocean carriers? Yes.
[31:41] Welcome back, everyone. We'll now start with the budget presentation.
[31:45] We're going to start with the 2026 proposed police services
[31:48] budget. And just a comment. How this process is evolving,
[31:58] you'll know that. In. The capital portion of the police
[32:04] service budget. I had recommended not to go ahead. With
[32:08] the police annex, but yesterday. Few of us received a
[32:13] memo from the solicitor General, the minister of municipal affairs.
[32:18] Telling us that under the strong mayor powers that the
[32:20] mayor has, No business, for lack of a better word.
[32:26] For fingerprints on the fleet budget. It would be the
[32:28] normal course of action where council can make their recommendations,
[32:33] but that came yesterday. But I am seeking clarity on
[32:37] whether or not it spoke specifically. To operating, remove capital
[32:41] or both. So the deputy mayor was with me today
[32:44] when I spoke to the minister. Municipal affairs office. But
[32:48] again, just to point out how this whole process. Is
[32:52] kind of learn as you go on the full process.
[32:57] With that, I'm going to determine. We have Matt Alm.
[32:58] Do you want to come? Up, Matt. Matt hall, chair
[33:01] of the police board and chief Campbell and deputy chief
[33:05] Cushman. If he's needed, but I will turn it over
[33:08] to you. Thank you, Mr. Mayor. And thank you. Rest
[33:12] of council for making the time to have me here
[33:14] today. This is the first time I've had the opportunity
[33:16] to speak with everybody. So. I'm just going to go
[33:21] over a few of the things that led up to
[33:24] kind of where we are with the budget this year.
[33:26] Make some comments and then I'll pass. It over to
[33:28] Chief Campbell, he can kind of do a deeper dive
[33:31] into the budget. So 2025 was a big year of
[33:35] growth for Stratford Caradox Police Service. We saw a large
[33:39] population boom in town, and with that we had necessitated
[33:43] us doing some hiring. Increase our staffing levels. A requirement
[33:48] under the Community Safety and Policing act is that the
[33:51] police board is required to ensure adequate and effective policing.
[33:55] So one of the ways that we have done that
[33:56] is to ensure that our staffing levels have kind of
[33:59] kept up with population growth, and that's what we saw
[34:02] in 2025. As well. Scps took on 911 services for
[34:10] middlesex county. Answering any 911 calls outside of Strathroy Caradock
[34:16] area. Another item. Is the ongoing planning for the expansion
[34:24] that the mayor mentioned. The board voted on that budget
[34:29] item in the January board meeting and approved it to
[34:32] move forward. To council approval. As well. One of the
[34:35] bigger factors. Leading up to our budget this year was
[34:39] the new collective agreement was ratified at the end of
[34:42] last year. A bit of a background on that. The
[34:46] previous collective agreement. Was from 2021 to 2025. So we
[34:53] all know 2021 was the beginning of Covid. We had
[34:58] just ratified a very fair deal for our officers. Modest
[35:01] increases throughout the year to keep up with inflation. As
[35:05] soon as Covid kind of ramped up, inflation took off,
[35:08] led the rising cost for everything. Struthercare police was tied
[35:11] to our collective agreement. But other services started to see.
[35:15] Higher increases that they were settling for kind of 2%
[35:18] more on average per year than what our officers were
[35:22] seeing. So what that did was last year when we
[35:26] started looking at comparator groups for our officers is we
[35:30] found that we were toward one of the, on the
[35:32] lower end of the provincial average for salaries. So, in
[35:37] order to ensure that we were remaining competitive and marketable,
[35:42] For recruitment, we understood that we needed to bring everybody
[35:45] up to a provincial average. So through the bargaining process.
[35:49] We agreed to a 6% 1st year pay hike just
[35:53] to get the officers up. And then modest increases out
[35:56] to that to keep up with inflation. We don't anticipate
[35:59] any. Further big jumps like that, but this is kind
[36:03] of a one off year. Where we're seeing that bigger
[36:06] increase. As well. Along with the increase in wages, there
[36:11] was an increase. In the benefit package, which led to
[36:15] increased operating costs. The recognition of mental health planned a
[36:18] bigger role and there was a corresponding increase in benefits
[36:23] provided to our officers. I always thought that. An ounce
[36:28] of prevention is worth the pounded care. So if we
[36:29] can take care of these problems, beforehand. You can keep
[36:32] officers on the job. It's better bang for your buck.
[36:36] That is about it for the kind of the high
[36:38] level stuff that led to where we are. With the
[36:41] budget. I will pass it over to the chief. He
[36:46] can kind of do a deeper dive into the numbers.
[36:49] And then open it up for questions. At the end.
[36:52] Thank you. First of all,
[37:02] Thanks. Jared hall. As I sit in here, my it
[37:05] director is getting me linked into the sharing my speaking
[37:10] notes. That will be made available to the rest of
[37:14] council. While he's doing that, I do have some quick
[37:19] summaries. I just wanted to sort of provide an opening
[37:22] sort of comment or statement to counsel. Certainly in regards
[37:27] to the 2026 budget presentation. So priorities from the office
[37:31] of the Chief. This is probably my 9th or 10th
[37:36] budget I've prepared as chief of the police service. Each
[37:40] and every time. I've tried to hit on being consistent,
[37:44] transparent. And equitable. We certainly want to operate as a
[37:49] trusted cooperative partner within the municipal landscape, working to establish
[37:55] and coordinate effective use of both human and financial resources
[37:59] that enhance community safety and well being across our municipalities,
[38:03] our regional borders and provincial landscape. Our community based police
[38:09] service strives to earn the trust and respect of all
[38:11] of our community. Members. And visitors alike as we work
[38:16] towards organizational excellence. In delivering the highest standards through professionalism.
[38:23] Dedication and empathy. And we are appreciative of the support
[38:27] and the governance offered by our police services. Board and
[38:30] the leadership of municipal Council, providing us with the appropriate
[38:35] resources to meet our ever changing demands. And challenges affecting
[38:40] community safety, both at the local, provincial, national. And it's
[38:47] safe to say, even more so now at the international
[38:50] level. So with that, I'm just going to sort of
[38:53] embark on. Kind of moving. Through some of my talking
[38:58] points in regards to this slide here. So with page
[39:03] two build. An appreciating. That in the last year, both
[39:13] municipal council and the police services board have undertaken. An
[39:17] exercise to build out a strong and robust strategic plan.
[39:21] Certainly our budget presentation. Aligned with the work that. Is
[39:27] captured in our strategic plan. At the police service, including
[39:31] alignment to our mission, the vision and the values. We
[39:36] also have. Some very important strategic pillars about effective stewardship
[39:40] of assets. Exemplary customer service. Promoting community safety, advancing technology
[39:46] and innovation. And certainly excellence in our people and our
[39:50] culture. Along with this, we have an organized. Organizational chart
[39:57] that represents the 42 uniform members. In 17 civilian members
[40:02] that make up our organization. In the next page. On
[40:06] page three, there's a bit of a review of some
[40:08] of the cost of policing. And this is spanning over
[40:16] a four year window from 2022 to 2025. In it,
[40:21] you'll see the revenues that we have worked with, the
[40:25] expenses that. We have incurred. That are broken down into
[40:32] various categories, including our general costs associated to our police
[40:36] services board, administrative cost, uniform costs and our civilian members.
[40:43] Over the course of the last four years, 2022 to
[40:46] 2025, we have incurred surpluses. In each of those four
[40:50] years. A lot of that has to do with some
[40:54] of the increases in revenue that. We have built in
[40:59] and expanded over those years. Some of the savings on
[41:04] the expenses. As you can appreciate, a vast majority of
[41:08] our expenses are related to salaries and benefits and when
[41:11] we have the absence of members from active duty. Those
[41:16] are often the biggest areas where. We see an increase
[41:20] in savings in regards to. Normal or ongoing expenses. In
[41:27] regards to some of the cost of policing in regards
[41:30] to capital projects. Again, A four year overview. Of both
[41:37] the capital revenue and capital. Have occurred. That was me.
[41:44] Sorry. Again, showing where we landed, or, sorry, landed at
[41:49] the end of each particular year. This particular year. In
[41:57] our proposed budget. There are. Some fairly substantial increases. And
[42:04] again, the board. Chair has certainly highlighted some of those
[42:09] areas where some of the increases. Occurred. I'd like to
[42:14] give sort of just a quick review. Of both the
[42:18] revenue sources and the expense drivers in, particularly for the
[42:22] 2026 year. In the one document that. Is here before
[42:28] you. See that we have been very aggressive in seeking
[42:33] grant funding opportunities to help fund. Our operations. Another area
[42:40] where we experience a fairly substantial increase in revenue within
[42:43] the provincial offenses. That is really money that is generated
[42:47] from ticket revenue, which pre Covid. Was. A fairly decent
[42:56] revenue number. Obviously, through the Covid period, it dropped off
[43:00] substantially and we're now starting to see that return to
[43:04] the pre Covid amounts the chair announced or talked about
[43:10] some of the expansion in our fire, dispatch and 911
[43:13] services. That has been very effective for our organization. In
[43:18] creating better levels of service. But. It also has Earth.
[43:22] The corresponding. Revenue sources that come with it, and we
[43:27] are always getting inquiries from other areas. About potential interest
[43:32] in expanding that area. Another area where we've seen or
[43:37] have recovered wage and salary or, sorry, salary and benefit.
[43:42] Cost is expanding our college Sakham and program at the
[43:46] Ontario Police College. We currently have four senior members who
[43:49] are on to condemns at the college where the police
[43:54] service is getting full. Cost recovery back on both salaries
[43:56] and benefits. And again. In 2026. We were successful in
[44:03] receiving. Ng nine one funding for the 2026 year, which.
[44:10] In our operating budget. Is actually being divided out. 570,000.
[44:17] In operational expenses, 832,000 will be incurred in capital expenses.
[44:23] It was a grant worth 1.4 million that we were
[44:27] successful in getting some of the expense drivers. I want
[44:31] to highlight that are in the 2026 budget. Salary increases
[44:35] tied to the new collective bargaining agreement. Again that the
[44:37] chair. Has skimmed over and talked about, and that's both
[44:42] in both our uniform and our civilian members. Another area.
[44:48] That's impacting expenses is our staffing model. I think it's
[44:53] not a surprise to most that council that over the
[44:56] last three to four years, we have gone on a
[44:58] recruiting campaign, hiring very young, new, inexperienced members. As they
[45:04] go through various class readjustments. Their salary has small bumps,
[45:10] and they go. So we're seeing those impacts starting to
[45:13] arrive. One of the areas in our operating budget this
[45:16] year where we noticed a big increase was in some
[45:19] of the benefit costs. There's been a new application of
[45:22] a new percentage increase that along with some recalculations regarding
[45:27] WSIB expenses that weren't being calculated. On. A previous. Graph
[45:35] that we were using have been corrected. And that explains
[45:39] why there has been some increases in some of those
[45:41] benefit costs. We've also moved. Or operationalize our axon suite
[45:48] of products. As we ventured into the use of axon
[45:52] products, including body war and cameras and in card cameras.
[45:56] Those were being captured in capital expenses through some discussions.
[46:02] And ongoing consultation with the director of finance. We have
[46:04] now operationalized those expenses, moving them into the operational. Budget
[46:10] areas. There has been obviously a corresponding reduction in capital
[46:15] cost and capital taxation as those have now been. Moved
[46:18] into the operations. We've also ventured in 2025. And obviously.
[46:25] Continuing on in 2026. The return of utilizing our own
[46:30] IT resources and staff within Strathori cared police service. We
[46:36] obviously operate a very unique industry. And the demands and
[46:40] the challenges. And our certainly use of technologies. Has sort
[46:48] of created an opportunity where we're best utilizing those resources
[46:53] inside our own organization. We're also into year two of.
[47:00] Accounting line where we are capturing any of the municipal
[47:04] administrative services that we are receiving, specifically HR. Activities. That
[47:12] occur through the director of HR and his team as
[47:15] they help support the police service. That line appears again
[47:19] in our operating budget. We've also created. A building debt
[47:25] repayment expense line in our operating budget. In anticipation of
[47:30] moving forward with our building annex. And again, I highlighted
[47:36] that. In our operating budget and capital budget for 2026.
[47:42] The separation of the NG 9111 grant funding that has
[47:46] occurred. I also want to sort of just take a
[47:50] little bit of time to speak to the building. Annex.
[47:56] Last Thursday at a police services board meeting, we received
[48:00] the final classity costing that was presented. At that meeting
[48:05] a motion. Was made and passed by the board that
[48:10] the board received the Strathary care dock police. Edition and
[48:13] renovation class a budget report for information and approve it
[48:18] for presentation to counsel for their approval. I want to
[48:22] highlight for the council the strong, positive position that the
[48:25] police service is in. We have over $1 million in
[48:30] police reserves. We have over $540,000 in development charges, money
[48:37] that. Is situated and available. To help us. Lessen some
[48:44] of the impacts in moving forward. On the building annex.
[48:49] We also have some understanding of the municipal debt structure
[48:54] and that. There is at current, a fairly low. Municipal
[48:59] debt ratio. We're also aware that there is a very
[49:03] attractive interest rate opportunity that presents itself for moving into
[49:07] the space of. Taking on additional debt. And we're also
[49:12] very aware that there is a favorable building market. That
[49:16] exists currently. Meaning there is really a low supply of
[49:20] projects. And a heightened interest in general contractors looking for
[49:24] projects. And that was made very clear last Thursday. During
[49:27] the presentation by Mr. Holt of Alink, who has been
[49:31] doing through his company a lot. Of work in prepping
[49:36] us. For getting to the stage where the building annex.
[49:41] Has the class a costing completed. Currently. The service. Has
[49:48] invested and paid for well over $200,000 in regards to.
[49:54] Money to get us to this stage. Of the costing.
[50:00] The demands for the facility annexation have not gone away,
[50:04] and I think it's important to maybe highlight for council
[50:07] and the community some of what those demands were our
[50:11] staffing, capacity growth not only in additional members. Challenges in
[50:17] spacing in regarding to work areas, change rooms, and certainly
[50:21] some of the parking limitations. We have. Operational readiness. Wintertime.
[50:28] Often brings about challenges we have with weather or inclement
[50:33] weather that challenges some of our operational readiness to respond
[50:38] to calls, an onsite training spaces. Currently, we do a
[50:42] lot of off site training where some of our members
[50:45] sometimes are taken outside of our community, just so. That
[50:49] they are able to complete some of the onsite train.
[50:52] Operational effectiveness. Our 911 center is a very limited space
[50:56] currently, and as we continue to take on more and
[50:59] more. Opportunities to provide services. It is a busy center
[51:04] in a very confined space. Additional to that is some
[51:09] of the challenges we have with our indoor it space
[51:12] just this past year we had. A couple of outages
[51:16] regarding overheating in a space as the it closet. As
[51:20] I like to call it is actually two former closets
[51:23] that have been constructed to create a space. For an
[51:28] IT server room. We're also up to looking to future.
[51:33] Proof our building through the service expansion. That involves expanding
[51:38] some of the community partner opportunities. One area that we
[51:41] have existing relationships is with probation. And as well as.
[51:48] A pre charge consultation. Crown, who spends time in our
[51:51] building two to three days a week. We have an
[51:55] opportunity to expand some of those partnerships and bringing in
[51:58] additional partners, including victim services. As well as expanding some
[52:03] of our dispatching service opportunities. I will also like to
[52:08] highlight that one of the areas that we have some
[52:10] challenges currently is with a virtual court suite. During the
[52:14] Covid time, we had more and more opportunities where we
[52:17] were being asked. To attend court virtually, and we have
[52:21] some challenges with our current setup just to meet the
[52:25] expectations. And requirement of the courtroom to ensure that we
[52:29] have a virtual. Court room in our building that is
[52:34] free of obstructions, challenges and other recording equipment that isn't
[52:39] permitted as far as when you are providing. Those. Opportunities.
[52:45] And more and more. We obviously are seeing more virtual
[52:47] bail hearings than opportunities that are occurring. In our facility.
[52:54] The next page after this highlights some of the grant
[52:58] funding that I reference. Again, this is an opportunity that
[53:04] we will continue to search and find rent funding opportunities
[53:08] whenever they are available. For our organization to lessen certainly
[53:13] some of the impacts in regards to taxation. And then
[53:19] the last page again. It's already been sort of highlighted.
[53:25] It's in relation to the authorities under the Community Safety
[53:28] Policing act about the responsibilities for funding and the approval
[53:33] pieces that have in both in the police services board
[53:36] and ultimately at council. With that, I will pause and
[53:40] certainly take questions from council in regards to our presentation.
[53:46] Thank you. Chief. Thanks, chair hall, any questions? For any
[53:50] of the two. Councilor Kenneth. Just, I guess, a general
[53:57] question. Is there a formula for? Police officers per x
[54:05] number of citizens or. I guess. How do you come
[54:10] up with staffing needs, especially. On the officer side. Of
[54:17] business. Through the mayor to councilor Kenneth. The traditional ratio
[54:23] was called a cop to pop or cop to pop
[54:26] ratio. So number of officers to a population. Over the
[54:31] last, I would say five to ten years. The industry
[54:34] had sort of moved away from. That index to more
[54:38] of a calls for service and what really provides adequate
[54:42] and effective policing response. Certainly what policing has evolved into
[54:47] over a number of years is. A bigger suite of
[54:50] services that you offer to your community. Outside of traditional
[54:55] law enforcement. We are obviously involved in mental health calls,
[54:58] homelessness, addiction, a lot of social unrest type calls. Those
[55:03] are activities that we are capturing on a day to
[55:06] day basis. To show what we are doing and how
[55:08] we are providing services to our community so we're trying
[55:12] to utilize that as a metrics. To be more reflective
[55:15] of what does adequate and effective policing look like? What
[55:19] are the community's expectations for a response time to get
[55:22] to calls for service as opposed to a cop to
[55:25] a pop ratio. I will highlight. I think one of
[55:29] the challenges to a cop to pop metrics is a
[55:34] community such as Sirothran Kerada. That has a lot of
[55:38] people that reside here, but maybe live or sorry that
[55:41] work outside the community. Conversely, we have a lot of
[55:44] people who don't live in our community that come into
[55:46] our towns, communities on a daily basis. To work, to
[55:51] go to school. To attend services, whether it's the hospital
[55:56] or other activities. So that's for me. It's a real
[55:59] moving target, and I don't. Think that that's a real
[56:02] accurate reflective ratio to use to come up with an
[56:06] adequate staffing number. Councilor hippel. Excuse me. Thank you. Through
[56:14] yourself to the chief. We're talking about junior officers. Graduating
[56:23] their way up over. The last few years. I guess
[56:29] with what councilor Kenneth was talking about a little bit.
[56:32] I'm curious how our compliment. How your compliment is at
[56:37] this time and are you happy with it and how
[56:40] you see us moving forward with who you have. Now.
[56:46] So through the mayor to councilor Hippol. We over the
[56:53] last number of years. As we have added some numbers
[56:57] incrementally, year over year, so that there wasn't. A large
[57:01] up sea impact on the budget with salary increases, so
[57:05] that was sort of one strategy we had was to
[57:08] grow slowly. But reflective of where we were with. Our
[57:14] increase in activities. We strategically looked at hiring younger. Less
[57:21] expensive members coming into the organization. I may get in
[57:25] trouble for making this analogy or reference, but. Our young
[57:31] members are like having. Puppies around. They are very engaged,
[57:36] very active. Wanting to be out doing things. And learning
[57:44] as we go. It's been beneficial because. It has created
[57:51] a culture within the organization. That has grown and has
[57:57] become. Stronger because of. I think where we've gone with
[58:02] our recruiting strategy. We've also targeted, and I mean in
[58:07] a good way. New members who have a long history
[58:11] to this community, perhaps grew up here, perhaps have moved
[58:15] here. Are connected to our community not only in working
[58:20] here, but. Through other areas. Family. Relationships activities which I
[58:27] think boasts well for our organization. We are happy with.
[58:35] Our complement numbers in how we have structured the organization.
[58:39] We run uniform divisions of six members, so 24 uniform
[58:42] members. I have two members dedicated for traffic enforcement. I
[58:46] have a dedicated community services officer who also doubles as
[58:50] a media officer, I have a member dedicated to mental
[58:53] health calls. So on any given day, I have at
[58:57] a disposal eight to nine uniform members available to provide
[59:02] services, frontline services, if required. We have a strong cachet,
[59:07] or core of criminal investigators, numbering up six that are
[59:12] involved. In our criminal investigation and help provide those additional
[59:16] support. Supports. I have a strong command staff team, and
[59:21] we feel we are very well positioned and very well
[59:24] staffed to provide the services. That we believe. That this
[59:29] community deserves. Thank you. Councilor Pammer, I'm just wondering if
[59:36] you could expand a little bit on the increases under
[59:39] it expense, particularly the three lines that have a 220%
[59:44] increase, 300% 352 could you explain why this year there's
[59:48] such a drastic change in those lines? Again. If you
[59:53] just give me a minute to grab my line by
[59:56] line sheet, I think I. Know which area is here.
[59:58] You might be rough.
[1:00:13] Behind door number three, apparently.
[1:00:38] So through the mirror to Councillor Pamer. I think the
[1:00:44] three areas that. You might be referencing is information technology.
[1:00:50] Contracted it and the. Axon Alpr. So the first two,
[1:00:57] the 180,226, actually correspond directly to the NG 911 funding.
[1:01:04] So the grant that we received, I think I highlighted
[1:01:08] earlier that. 1.4 million grant funding. Some of it has
[1:01:13] been divided into. Operational expenses. And some have been divided
[1:01:20] out into capital expenses. The increases in those two areas,
[1:01:24] up to 180,226. Are directly related to the NG 9111
[1:01:30] project, so those are really one time, one year expense.
[1:01:34] Increases that are covered are offset by the grant funding.
[1:01:37] The 320,000. Is the moving of the axon from the
[1:01:41] capital into the operational. Pieces. And so that taxation funding
[1:01:47] that had been occurring. On the capital side has now
[1:01:51] been adjusted. Into the operational side. Any other questions? Councilor
[1:02:01] Derbyshire. Thank you. To the chief. That was kind of
[1:02:04] my question. Was the NZ 91111? It takes, Grant. And
[1:02:10] basically pays for itself. It doesn't really cost us to
[1:02:12] run that program. Should it almost be its own separate?
[1:02:18] Kind of project over here. Make it a little easier,
[1:02:21] a little clear as to. What it kind of does
[1:02:24] with its operation and its expenses. Or is it actually
[1:02:29] all part of. Your whole budget. I guess to me.
[1:02:34] I thought it was somewhat of a separately run kind
[1:02:37] of program. But within the police services. I don't want
[1:02:42] it skewing your numbers. I guess when we look at
[1:02:44] it, right. Basically, it's money in, money out. Then that
[1:02:49] works. But as it increase, it looks like your budget
[1:02:52] is taking a real big increase. Even though. It's kind
[1:02:56] of doing that on its own, I guess. Would be.
[1:03:00] Maybe I'm not being clear. But I guess I just
[1:03:02] like to see NG 911 kind of broken down in
[1:03:05] its own operation. And expenses, I guess, would be. What
[1:03:09] I was getting at, whether that's an option or not.
[1:03:12] So through the mayor to councilor Derbyshire. Certainly. First of
[1:03:17] all, It's been a long, ongoing project. This is maybe
[1:03:20] year three of the NG 9111. Funding envelope. The previous
[1:03:26] two years. When the it at Town hall was running
[1:03:32] the project. That's where the revenues were showing and the
[1:03:36] expenses were showing. I certainly appreciate, I think, what you're
[1:03:39] referencing. And we've tried to be transparent. And show where
[1:03:44] those expenses are occurring. In regards to the work that
[1:03:49] is being undertaken. We are hoping that through the work
[1:03:55] of our it staff that we will be able to
[1:03:58] get to the finish line, hopefully in 2026. So this
[1:04:02] may just be a one year sort of. Cycle where
[1:04:06] we only have to show these numbers. I think maybe
[1:04:09] going forward, if it spills. Into 2027. Maybe we can
[1:04:12] give some. Consideration. To pushing those out into additional GL
[1:04:17] lens. Follow up council jury. Yeah, and just on that,
[1:04:21] I guess, through you to our director of finance. Now.
[1:04:26] Was this? The grants that we didn't meet and had
[1:04:28] to give back. In previous years. So. Yes, through the
[1:04:35] chair, the council. We got grant money expecting to do
[1:04:39] all this work. The issue. Is, and the chief can
[1:04:44] attest to this, is there's a limited number of vendors
[1:04:47] for these projects. And all those vendors. Excuse me. Those
[1:04:51] vendors are going after each of the police services, so
[1:04:54] whoever is highest in the ready. That's who gets them.
[1:04:57] So that's why we ended. Up refunding, but. As you
[1:05:01] just heard, we got 1.4 million this year to finish
[1:05:05] that project. So in essence, we're getting that money back.
[1:05:08] Councilor willsey. Got two questions. One of them was kind
[1:05:14] of triggered by Councillor Derby's question. When we looked through.
[1:05:18] We know that we're expanding dispatch services. We're doing. All
[1:05:23] for the county now, and that continues to grow. The
[1:05:28] question that sparked my interest is that he was explaining
[1:05:30] that the NG 911 wouldn't make sense to have that.
[1:05:34] Separate either as, like, a sub budget of yours, because
[1:05:37] right now we've got approximately $10. Million budget only $8
[1:05:40] million is coming tax because you're getting the revenue for
[1:05:42] doing the 911 calls, and I know that works out
[1:05:44] to be almost a wash, but would it? Make sense
[1:05:48] so that when the public's looking at it, we don't.
[1:05:52] See the dispatch portion as a policing cost, but that's
[1:05:55] a self funding. It can be. A sub department or
[1:05:57] something just for clarity and optics to see that. We're
[1:06:01] not paying our police department 10 million a year out
[1:06:03] of a $24 million. Legend. That's my first question, so
[1:06:07] maybe I'll let you respond to that. So through the
[1:06:09] mayor to Councilor Wilsey. So the operation, obviously, of the
[1:06:17] 911 center is part of police operations, obviously one of
[1:06:21] their roles. Is as police dispatchers. Again. We try to,
[1:06:29] I think. It's pretty obvious. We tried to create some
[1:06:34] revenue streams regarding. The additional services, obviously, that we run
[1:06:39] both. In fire dispatch at the county level, as you
[1:06:43] mentioned, answering 911 calls at the county level, saving city
[1:06:47] of London. I guess we are trying to be transparent
[1:06:53] in showing that there is. This revenue that is created.
[1:07:01] Through those activities. As well as. Creating some very distinct.
[1:07:09] Expense lines for our civilian. Members. In the operating budget
[1:07:15] to outline what costs we are incurring from. A staffing
[1:07:20] component. In addition to some of. The hardware software costs
[1:07:25] that appear in our IT related budget. So I think
[1:07:31] that's what we're trying to accomplish. Is by. Showing where
[1:07:35] we are as far as bringing in revenue. To run
[1:07:40] the organization as well as where those expenses occur. Willsy.
[1:07:45] And as a follow up, I think you've done a
[1:07:46] good job. Like myself, where I look at the budget
[1:07:49] and I can see the revenue. I know what finance
[1:07:51] I'm looking for. I kind of know how to separate
[1:07:53] that out and back it out. From it. But if
[1:07:55] the general public, or someone who's not a counselor or
[1:07:57] somebody who hasn't spent hours looking at your sheets. They're
[1:07:59] not going to know that, so. It was more of
[1:08:01] a formatting question, not how you're doing it, but if
[1:08:03] we can just make that easier. And then that way
[1:08:06] it's easy. We can know what's. Dispatch and. What's policing?
[1:08:10] Same budget, everything else. Just displayed differently. The second question
[1:08:15] I had was towards. The annex. I see it's not
[1:08:20] in your capital budget for this year. So I'm just
[1:08:24] wondering what your plan is as far as the police
[1:08:27] board. When you would want to go forward with that.
[1:08:29] Is that something? A 2026 project? We're going to see
[1:08:31] later. Is it 27? Is it 28? It's not in
[1:08:35] this year's capital, so I'm just wondering what the. Plan
[1:08:37] is on when you feel like you'd want to be
[1:08:39] moving forward with that, given your other comments earlier tonight.
[1:08:44] I'll help you. It was in the police service board.
[1:08:46] Budget reference. The police service board? Approved it. Until I
[1:08:51] got the memo from this list or general telling me
[1:08:55] strong mayors have no ability to touch the capital. It's
[1:08:58] actually me cousin Wilson who took it out of the
[1:09:00] town. Budget. So now I think it has to go
[1:09:03] back in, given the memo we have today, but. It
[1:09:06] initially was in the police service board. Okay, because their
[1:09:10] capital budget that they presented here. It's not here. The
[1:09:15] one that's in their item. Okay, they only have 1.4.
[1:09:18] Million of capital for the year. On that question, then
[1:09:22] they do want to do it in 26. Council, Brandon.
[1:09:31] It was the intention of the board to go ahead
[1:09:33] with the capital expenditure in 2026 with the class a
[1:09:36] costing and go to tender as soon as possible. And
[1:09:40] then the mayor did what he did. And then yesterday,
[1:09:45] January 12, we received a memo from the solicitor general.
[1:09:51] Indicating that. The mayor cannot just arbitrarily take that out
[1:09:56] of a police board capital budget. So I guess in
[1:10:01] terms of process right now, It really should. Be in
[1:10:07] this budget as presented today. But given what happened yesterday
[1:10:13] from the sister general, that's what changed things. So the
[1:10:17] board voted to go ahead with it. The Merrick pulled
[1:10:21] it. The solicitor general has said strong mayors can't do
[1:10:25] that. There wasn't enough time. I guess maybe. To update
[1:10:29] or change all of that for today, but I know
[1:10:32] the board has voted to go. Ahead with it. And
[1:10:34] it's the board's expectation that given the information from the
[1:10:38] solicitor general that. The capital. Request from the police board
[1:10:42] be put in front of council. And. That council. Would
[1:10:48] then vote on the overall police board package, but not
[1:10:52] individual line items, just the total amount. It's been kind
[1:10:56] of a moving target with this new budget process. And
[1:11:01] regulations coming out kind of on the fly. But that's
[1:11:06] where we are. And I know we've been shooting a
[1:11:09] lot of texts around saying, okay, well, in light of
[1:11:12] what the mayor did. In light of what the celestial
[1:11:14] general did. Where are we today? In terms of approving
[1:11:17] a police. Board a budget. It's my understanding that with
[1:11:22] the wish of the police board before the mayor acted,
[1:11:24] that that come in front of this body today, and
[1:11:26] it would be the idea that if we were approving
[1:11:28] the police board budget that we'd be doing everything that's
[1:11:32] on paper. Here. And in addition, the idea would be.
[1:11:37] Giving the green light to the class A costing going
[1:11:39] to the final stages. For request, for proposals to be
[1:11:44] put out, for tendering to happen, and for construction to
[1:11:49] begin. In this favorable construction season. Right now. As the
[1:11:54] chief was saying. So I don't know where we are
[1:11:58] tonight in terms of a vote, that's up for? I
[1:12:01] guess the mary's chair of council determine where we are.
[1:12:05] But the idea was that we would be recommending as
[1:12:07] a police board that we go ahead. With project in
[1:12:09] 2026. Just for everybody. That memo wasn't aimed just at
[1:12:15] the mayor of Strasbourne. That went everywhere. There are some
[1:12:18] mayors who've done some rather drastic things. To the police
[1:12:22] by themselves anyways. Go ahead, councilor. So I guess just
[1:12:26] as a follow up to that, then being into your
[1:12:28] budget. Mr. Mary. You could say that. You just want
[1:12:33] to without calling specific lineup. It was just give them.
[1:12:36] Their call it twelve and a half million they're asking
[1:12:39] for and say that's why you got to figure out
[1:12:41] how you're going to spend it, and you're not saying
[1:12:43] different live Ms. You could still say that and keep
[1:12:45] the budget the same as you've done it. Or you
[1:12:49] could say, have your extra. So, ten and a half
[1:12:51] million. Yeah. So I did see clarity today from the
[1:12:57] ministry. As I said, clarity on whether or not it's
[1:13:00] operating capital. The deputy mayor is with me and heard
[1:13:02] the conversation, so I expect over the next day or
[1:13:05] so to get clarity that it's both capital and operating.
[1:13:10] I suspect it is both. Before we pull the trigger
[1:13:13] on anything. They just want to ensure they were referencing
[1:13:16] both. Custard Pelletman strictly from a process perspective, since you're
[1:13:24] only presenting the budget tonight. We could add the request
[1:13:31] in. We're not deciding that we're approving anything. Tonight. That
[1:13:35] is correct. Council still has the authority to say yay
[1:13:40] or nay to the final number only. So I would
[1:13:44] suggest that we added in. As the board had originally
[1:13:50] requested. It's not like it's a new project. It's not
[1:13:53] like we didn't know. It wasn't happening. We all know
[1:13:56] that the costing was being done. So I would suggest
[1:14:00] we just added it in the request. If you require
[1:14:04] that as a motion, then we're not going to take
[1:14:05] any motions at council. This is just presentation. It'd be
[1:14:08] further. Bring motions and that towards it, but we know
[1:14:13] it's out there. Councilor Derbyshire. Thank you. I'm not going
[1:14:18] to pick a part line items. I just want to
[1:14:24] start by saying this is a budget meeting. What I
[1:14:28] bring forward doesn't mean this is what I want to
[1:14:31] happen. I just want to point out some budget things.
[1:14:35] So I realize it's a place service board, and trust
[1:14:38] me, I don't really. Want to anger the police service.
[1:14:42] But. I do want to make some points as a
[1:14:44] counselor. That when I look at. The 8.9 million from,
[1:14:50] I'm going to say, the 2025 budget. Just because I
[1:14:55] don't know exactly where that number ended up. And I
[1:14:59] take that number. And I don't think NG 9111 had
[1:15:02] any money in there. But I could be exactly wrong.
[1:15:04] I don't know. I divide that by 10,500 households, which
[1:15:08] is about what we have in stratroy care, doc. Is
[1:15:12] as close as I can get because, again, we don't
[1:15:14] have all those numbers. I get $857 per household for
[1:15:20] this service, which. Probably is not bad. I'm going to
[1:15:25] go with the comparator because I heard that earlier from
[1:15:28] the chair where he compared wages. If I go to
[1:15:31] our comparator of the OPP. Their 2025 cost per household
[1:15:37] was 399. So I just want us to be aware.
[1:15:45] Of where that is and what we're getting. For the
[1:15:49] extra money. And. I totally understand. How long the service
[1:15:54] has been here. We all have a deep attachment to
[1:15:57] it, but I preference this to? I'm going to use
[1:16:01] the farming. Term a combine. I've always driven a combine.
[1:16:05] I've always owned a combine. A combine now is a
[1:16:07] million dollars. So I don't have the acres anymore to
[1:16:11] justify the million dollar combine. It's cheaper and more cost
[1:16:17] effective for my farm to hire my neighbor. His trucks,
[1:16:21] his trailers. And have that done that way. That doesn't
[1:16:26] mean I don't want to sit in that combine and
[1:16:28] combine and. I don't want to see it in my
[1:16:30] shit. The emotional attachment to a combine. I get it.
[1:16:35] Emotional attachment to the police force. I get it. But
[1:16:39] from a business standpoint and a numbers standpoint, I do
[1:16:42] believe this is something that honestly before we spend $9
[1:16:45] million on an expansion. This is something that really needs
[1:16:50] to be considered. From a business standpoint, not from. I
[1:16:55] used to work here. This is the greatest. We do
[1:16:57] have great people working here. I don't want to downplay
[1:17:01] that. From a cost comparison. It doesn't work. And doesn't
[1:17:04] it work? I do think that. 's a big gap.
[1:17:10] We're not talking 50 or $60. That's a lot per
[1:17:14] household. But again, like I say, I just want to
[1:17:19] have a conversation about it. I don't want it to
[1:17:22] be like, oh, Derbyshire wants to get rid of the
[1:17:24] cops. I want to have an op. Sorry? The police.
[1:17:28] Ended there. Any other call, Counselor Hippel. Through yourself. Actually,
[1:17:38] I assumed that someone would bring that up because. These
[1:17:42] are things that happen in communities when you have your
[1:17:45] own. Police force and comparators are good things. You need
[1:17:51] to talk about it. It needs to. Be brought up.
[1:17:52] It needs to be discussed. And whether it's personal or
[1:17:57] it's just numbers. It's still one of those things where
[1:18:01] you do even though you can't compare. It because. It's
[1:18:05] monetary and it's a business versus the personal side of
[1:18:08] it, I think. It's hard not to sometimes. Only because.
[1:18:12] With the amount of, and I am going to use
[1:18:15] the mental health issues that we have. I don't know,
[1:18:20] outside communities, because. I would be stepping outside my boundary
[1:18:25] there. But within our municipality, the issues that we have.
[1:18:31] It does. Bringing the personal side into it almost. As
[1:18:35] necessary, because. They understand the community they know the community
[1:18:40] they've been in, the community they work in. The community.
[1:18:42] They know the businesses, they know the people. And you
[1:18:45] have to have to have a bit of that personal
[1:18:48] side of it to bring it into the comparators. That's
[1:18:51] all I'm saying. But I do get what you're saying,
[1:18:53] because if you don't, have the conversation. You can't talk,
[1:18:57] right? But that's the only reason I wanted to say
[1:19:01] something. Because it's good to bring them both together. Councilor
[1:19:05] McGuire and councilor Pelletman, and we'll wrap up this portion.
[1:19:09] Thank you. So. It's always the conversation to have, and
[1:19:13] we've seen it happen across the province. Many, many times.
[1:19:18] But I will say the comparison of the OPP to
[1:19:21] Strathroy caradok play. Surface is an apples and an oranges
[1:19:25] comparison. Yes, they both say police on their shoulders, but.
[1:19:30] The way they do their work is completely different. So
[1:19:33] the OPP province wide. So if you're taking. If they're
[1:19:37] giving you a province wide number, that would be vastly
[1:19:40] different. Than their number if they were policing in a
[1:19:43] municipality. And we know that from looking where they've taken
[1:19:47] over communities such as orange. Orangeville. I'm going from memory.
[1:19:53] Ten years ago. But there's a number of you go.
[1:19:55] Back and you can look and then you can start
[1:19:57] to see. We compare the policing costs in a community.
[1:20:02] So opt is not a comparator for strategy. Caradok police.
[1:20:06] It never has been. There are comparators that they use
[1:20:11] that would give you a better judgment. So. That scale
[1:20:15] that suddenly tipped one way. I don't want the conversation
[1:20:20] to start from that point because. That's not councilor coffin.
[1:20:26] Councilor Pellkman. I do understand there's a cost difference.
[1:20:37] From my time on the board. That promise might cost
[1:20:42] difference include. Places like Adelaide, Mag. Where there's not a
[1:20:46] whole lot of activity. Versus our municipality. And one of
[1:20:50] the factors that you have to include is the fact
[1:20:52] that we have a hospital here, and I myself. When
[1:20:56] my mom was a frequent visitor to the hospital. Witnessed
[1:21:01] four officers having to stand. Over. A person they had
[1:21:07] brought in because he needed to be restrained and they
[1:21:10] couldn't leave. Until. Whatever episode he was having. That's a
[1:21:14] cause that a lot of municipalities don't have to bear.
[1:21:20] Certainly things that you have to bring in discussion. Like,
[1:21:28] we probably would still have to update our police station
[1:21:32] because they wouldn't be able to use. The one out
[1:21:35] of may have for the ingredients and service and the
[1:21:37] increase in service or whatever. Service you get. Depends on
[1:21:42] what you negotiate. And if you negotiate the bare bottom,
[1:21:47] there's going to be times where there'll be no police
[1:21:49] officers. In our municipality. I'm not sure that that's something
[1:21:55] that we want. I know. Just speaking from one example,
[1:21:58] from a business side of things. When I was working
[1:22:02] for Superstore. There are full time security people at Superstore.
[1:22:07] We were a target for professional fees. Where people would
[1:22:10] regularly walk out with $1,000 plus worth of groceries. In
[1:22:18] an op environment. We would have to sit on that
[1:22:24] thief that was caught with two staff members. Until an
[1:22:29] officer was available, which could be five or 6 hours,
[1:22:32] whereas with the municipal service that is not a cost
[1:22:36] that they would have to bear their officer there almost
[1:22:38] immediately. So there's lots of things to consider. It's the
[1:22:43] discussion that ever takes place. It's not just about the
[1:22:46] final number. It's about what kind of service you want.
[1:22:51] And what kind of services you have to provide in
[1:22:53] the community. And one thing that I will say? For
[1:22:59] having your own service. And this discussion really came out.
[1:23:05] When. The carting issue was a big issue about ten
[1:23:10] years ago. Is carding didn't take place in the Strathroy
[1:23:14] caradock because. Our members knew who the people were. And
[1:23:18] if they were pulling somebody over, it wasn't. Because it
[1:23:20] was based on the race. It was because they knew
[1:23:23] they weren't from our municipality. Just the fact that they
[1:23:27] know the people. And I'll always say I never had
[1:23:31] an appreciation until. Spending the time in the police services
[1:23:36] board how much discretion an officer has to use in
[1:23:39] a heartbeat. That affects someone's life. And I'm not sure.
[1:23:46] That if it was one of my children. At the
[1:23:50] age of 18 or 20. That I want an officer
[1:23:52] that doesn't know the community dealing with the situation that
[1:23:56] they've been in because they made a mistake. I would
[1:23:59] rather have an officer that knows in her stands or
[1:24:01] a community deal with them that's a personal point. But
[1:24:04] the discretion that the officers got to use in very
[1:24:08] short time period at the time of the incident. Is
[1:24:13] immense and. You also want to make sure that they
[1:24:16] have the resources available to them that shouldn't. Incident occur
[1:24:19] in your own home? That they have the time to
[1:24:23] be thorough and not make a mistake so that if
[1:24:26] something does go to court. It doesn't fall apart because
[1:24:30] the officer made a mistake on the scene. Scenes. Those
[1:24:36] are all great points. They're all personal, they're all emotional.
[1:24:42] The Orangeville case. I just want to clarify. I spoke
[1:24:44] with Orangeville directly. Orangeville saved $4.5 million. You don't want
[1:24:50] to get into that. The other thing is. We can't
[1:24:53] change one line item here. So you all talk about,
[1:24:55] oh, we're getting this service and we're getting this and
[1:24:57] we're getting that. But you say OpP might not do
[1:24:59] that, but on the other hand, you'll say, well, Opp
[1:25:03] will build the service. Or you can build whatever service
[1:25:05] you want, right? So on one hand, we're like, OPP
[1:25:09] might not do that for us, but if you build
[1:25:12] the same service and do the same comparison and come
[1:25:15] up with the same money all you're left with are
[1:25:17] these same stories where you go, well, I just want
[1:25:20] a friendly. Face. I get it. When I spoke to
[1:25:23] the OPP about it, they said they. Will transfer our
[1:25:27] officers to OPP officers if they wanted. I'm just saying,
[1:25:32] take the emotion out of it and look at it
[1:25:35] from a business. Standpoint. And if you want to compare
[1:25:38] apples to apples, then build the program like this and
[1:25:41] say to the op? Here's what we want. What's it
[1:25:43] cost? That's apples to apples, because police officers are police
[1:25:48] officers and they're all trained and they're, all going to
[1:25:50] do the same. Due diligence that they are trained to
[1:25:53] do and be the people they are, whether it says
[1:25:56] op or stratford care dock on their sleeve because that's
[1:26:00] what they sign up for. And that's what they go
[1:26:02] through school for. So that's all I'm saying to you.
[1:26:06] We could build this program and opp. Could say, yeah,
[1:26:08] it's $900 per household. Now we know we're getting better
[1:26:12] service, better deal, better whatever. Out of our people. I
[1:26:16] don't want this to be. Derbyshire wants to get rid
[1:26:19] of our police force. I want it to be looked
[1:26:22] at like it's? A business. Which it is. That's all
[1:26:26] I'm asking. Don't. Put the whole emotional. Thing into it.
[1:26:32] Thanks, councilor. And I think it's okay to say cops.
[1:26:34] I don't think. You'll be offended by it. Chief deputy
[1:26:37] chief chair hall, thank you for attending night and. We'll
[1:26:43] reconvene. Thank you. So.
[1:26:55] I should tell you, chief, in 1 minute I'm going
[1:26:57] to come back and ask to sit where you are.
[1:27:01] Sit and listen to ours. We'll now move to the
[1:27:04] 2026 proposed budget and with that I'm going to ask
[1:27:07] the deputy mayor to take the chair seat.
[1:27:21] What do we do? Can I just ask something before
[1:27:28] we move on to the next one? What did we
[1:27:34] establish with what we're doing with this police service board
[1:27:38] meet or this police budget. Is it coming back as
[1:27:42] the one that was voted in by the board, or
[1:27:45] are we to work off of this for the next.
[1:27:49] Till the next meeting. What did we determine out of
[1:27:52] what happened here? Because they said this budget isn't right.
[1:27:55] So what are we doing? Not through you. To whoever
[1:27:59] wants to answer that. That's a really good question. And
[1:28:03] probably that gentleman standing up back there and rejacket. Should
[1:28:06] answer that one for us. We'll just wait for him
[1:28:08] to take the seat. Yeah. No, just before we moved
[1:28:11] on to our budget. I just wanted to know, how
[1:28:13] do we. Analyze that one going forward, whether or not
[1:28:16] we're going to put the cost of the building into
[1:28:18] that document. Which I understand what you're asking. Different back
[1:28:24] here. And thank for the question. I can answer that
[1:28:27] chair. There are two ways that could go, counselor.
[1:28:37] Counselor could bring. An amendment forward to add it in.
[1:28:42] That's one way. The second way is I could. Get
[1:28:45] my response back from the minister of municipal affairs saying
[1:28:49] that I had no business taking it. Out and put
[1:28:51] it back in. So we all know that for the
[1:28:54] next meeting. So there's. Two ways I could go. Well,
[1:28:59] I just want to ask this. If your proposed budget,
[1:29:02] which I understand, you shouldn't have taken the line bar
[1:29:04] out, right? But if your budget is, we're only giving
[1:29:08] you 10 million this year. Would that mean? You put
[1:29:11] that line budget back in and you say you find
[1:29:14] out. Because that's what council, that's what we would have
[1:29:19] the right to do, is say we're only going to
[1:29:21] give you 10 million or ten point whatever million. Or
[1:29:26] can the mayor not do that at all? Strictly a
[1:29:30] council thing, so. Yeah, it's strictly. It would be strictly
[1:29:33] a castle thing under. The strong mayors, it's going to
[1:29:37] say 100% certain that the strong mayor can't. Touch the
[1:29:40] operating budget, which I didn't do. Probably about 95% of
[1:29:45] the strong mayor can't touch the capital, so that's pretty
[1:29:49] well been determined. I guess my question is, does the
[1:29:52] strong mayor have the same authority? Over that budget that
[1:29:56] council would have. If not, then it has to go
[1:29:58] back to what they voted on. Yes. Answer your question
[1:30:02] directly. I have no authority over the police. Okay, so
[1:30:06] then there's not even a debate. We just get the
[1:30:08] one that they want presented to us. And then it's
[1:30:12] council's duty to do whatever they want with it. Yes.
[1:30:14] Okay. Just give me one moment here. I see. I
[1:30:19] want to ask Rob a question. It seems to me
[1:30:24] that if. There's. Refreshing. It should just be put back
[1:30:33] in. I did hear the question pulled by the mayor
[1:30:38] when he was talking to the ministry. And I was
[1:30:43] doing a lot of reading on it today after talking
[1:30:45] to Bowen and watching the emails go back and forth.
[1:30:48] Here's my take of it. You may not agree, but
[1:30:51] I believe that when the police service is board pushed
[1:30:55] a budget through to us, That is the one we
[1:31:00] should be dealing with tonight. Which is inclusive of the
[1:31:04] 10.5 and change. For the building annex. It's not in
[1:31:12] there. I know. I understand. That's what I'm saying. It
[1:31:18] should be that document. It would be 12 million. The
[1:31:23] total capital. Right. Well, you would add that line item
[1:31:26] back in. So the line item for. The building annex.
[1:31:29] I think what we're going to find out coming back
[1:31:31] and the way I feel about it anyways is not
[1:31:35] because I'm sitting here, but sitting down there. Is that
[1:31:38] the billing annex number should appear. In that document. And
[1:31:46] then if, because we're not supposed to take line items
[1:31:49] up and it's lineup. So it should be there. That
[1:31:55] being said, the next part of this process after tonight.
[1:31:59] Is council sitting and we do the written amendments that
[1:32:03] process. And that's when we could start adjusting not line
[1:32:08] items, but. Total budget. So the budget then goes. From.
[1:32:15] Ten point whatever. To 21 million because the building has
[1:32:20] to go back into it. It's been approved by the
[1:32:23] board, councilor pammer. So my question then is. Or my
[1:32:30] comment or question is why? So we're looking at. The
[1:32:35] budget presented tonight is not the correct budget. It's not
[1:32:40] going to be the actual budget. So why would we
[1:32:43] spend time. When all the numbers are going to change
[1:32:46] significantly and how we use reverse, et cetera, is there
[1:32:50] any point? And even looking at this budget tonight, does
[1:32:54] the mayor who's proposing the budget wish to withdraw and
[1:32:58] then resubmit. It just seems odd to me. We're going
[1:33:01] to talk. About. We're going to be at $10 million
[1:33:03] out in this. Can I answer that? John has his
[1:33:10] hand up, so. Fair question, counselor. I think. It does
[1:33:15] affect it. But again, I'm not going to withdraw the
[1:33:18] budget because the majority of it. Is. In this, the
[1:33:22] poll. So I'm here after reading or getting the memo
[1:33:26] from two ministers. My hat is as strictly as. The
[1:33:32] present. The municipal budget this evening. The police budget. I
[1:33:38] mean, we know there's going to be $12 million that
[1:33:40] we're probably going to have to put into it. There's
[1:33:43] a chance they may come. Back and say, yes, mayor,
[1:33:47] you can remove a capital item at that point in
[1:33:50] time. I will be leaving it out, and I'll leave
[1:33:53] it up to the will and council. To put it
[1:33:54] back in. If that's the ruling by the ministry. So
[1:33:59] if they were to come back, that chance. Where they
[1:34:01] say, yes, strong mirrors can remove capital items. That item
[1:34:07] would still remain out. And then it would be the
[1:34:08] will of council. So just 1 second, John, can we
[1:34:11] move forward with the idea because they don't know exactly
[1:34:14] how this is going to laid and all we're. Really
[1:34:16] doing. Tonight is receiving these presentations. That's all you're doing.
[1:34:20] Okay, but hang on. So then what we do is
[1:34:24] move forward tonight because we have another budget in front
[1:34:26] of us. In due course, we're going to find out
[1:34:29] whether or not that line item could ever be removed.
[1:34:32] If it could not be removed, then the budget goes
[1:34:35] back to what Matt hauled and his board. Submitted to
[1:34:39] counsel. And at the worst, we have to call a
[1:34:43] quick meeting to receive that. Budget, put a motion in
[1:34:47] place. To assume. It, and then. We'll continue on with
[1:34:54] the process of having our meetings and doing the written
[1:34:56] amendments. If the 10 million goes back in your debt
[1:35:01] schedule is wrong, all your numbers start to change. Because
[1:35:05] you're adding 10 million into the budget. Our municipal budget.
[1:35:11] So every number that you've put up. Not every number,
[1:35:15] but so many of them will change. Cost to change
[1:35:18] or your percentage has to. Change, you're going to increase.
[1:35:22] Your chair. Because I can explain that. Go ahead. John.
[1:35:27] And then we got to find a way to move
[1:35:28] forward because the clock is ticking and we're getting over,
[1:35:31] John. Thank you very much. If that's okay. The annex,
[1:35:37] the renovation. There's money in police service reserves, and the
[1:35:46] rest would be borrowed over time, it would change the
[1:35:49] debt schedules. However, it would not change the levy. Okay.
[1:35:53] The amount of money that's being asked for on the
[1:35:56] levee is going to remain the same in terms of
[1:35:57] this year municipal budget so it's 9.88. I think and
[1:36:01] it have about the same amount, say a 2% increase,
[1:36:04] a 2% effect on the overall budget. So whether the
[1:36:09] capital budget goes ahead or it doesn't go ahead for
[1:36:12] the renovation, The levy on the police budget is going
[1:36:16] to remain the same at 9.88. So it's not going
[1:36:20] to change the numbers for this year, just not taxes.
[1:36:24] Grant, you have a final word? I just have something
[1:36:27] else on it. Councilor Willie. I'm using everybody's first name.
[1:36:33] My apologies. Mine was on a different but related point
[1:36:35] not necessarily on the police annex. Which is on the
[1:36:39] budget pieces that we came through. There's a number where
[1:36:41] the titles of the documents are draft and there's typos
[1:36:44] and there's incomplete paragraphs. And descriptions aren't there. And the
[1:36:50] tax calculation. I'm going to use the agriculture one. That
[1:36:52] was off as well. The debt schedules are including interest
[1:36:56] and principle and the outstanding. Principle. At the end of
[1:37:00] the year, the numbers are wrong. There's mistakes on half
[1:37:03] of the documents that are in front of us and
[1:37:05] they say all draft and template. I just want to
[1:37:09] ask again. Is the mayor comfortable that these are the
[1:37:11] documents he wants, counsel? To look at with all of
[1:37:13] those errors in them. And that's what we're going to
[1:37:16] review when we're already changing? Councilor. What? I'm comfortable doing
[1:37:18] this. Evening is presenting the budget as proposed. I'm very
[1:37:24] comfortable presenting the numbers. So in terms of typos, If
[1:37:27] they're going to change somebody's mind is what the numbers
[1:37:29] are. I'll. Grant that there may be the word draft,
[1:37:32] or maybe. Grammatical errors. But, councilor, I'm here tonight to
[1:37:37] present a proposed budget, and that is. The key word
[1:37:40] is proposed. Things like looking at the possibility of the
[1:37:45] annex. We'd have other meetings that are to come up.
[1:37:48] So if there are any concerns regarding. Grammatical errors or
[1:37:52] typos or numbers that may be incorrect, bring them forward
[1:37:56] to the director. Of finance or the manager of finance.
[1:37:59] Buy them here tonight, Jared, just to present a proposed
[1:38:04] draft. Budget. That's what I'm prepared to do. Chair. Okay.
[1:38:09] Present your budget. Thank you. And I do, by the
[1:38:11] way, I just want to comment. I do. Understand. Like
[1:38:15] everybody. The questions and for life, or better word, the
[1:38:18] Yanks regarding. The strong mayor powers and presenting the budget
[1:38:22] I have just tried to follow. The process that's laid
[1:38:26] out, and that is. The responsibility of the merit to
[1:38:30] present a proposed budget. So that's what I am here.
[1:38:33] To do this evening, but I'm going to start just.
[1:38:35] I want to go over some. Numbers, and I'm going
[1:38:36] to turn it over to Lindsay to go through and.
[1:38:40] I want to thank the finance staff. I want to
[1:38:41] thank director Dacon, manager Lasky, Lindsay and Amy for being
[1:38:46] a great help. They've put up with a lot of
[1:38:48] questions, even. As late as this morning or my coffee.
[1:38:53] I ask some questions, so I am going to start.
[1:38:56] Because now, knowing that. The mayor doesn't really have much
[1:39:00] input or say. Into the police budget, I may have
[1:39:06] asked to have that line item removed separately from what
[1:39:09] I want to propose tonight. Because. Strong air is strictly
[1:39:13] responsible for. The municipal budget. I just want to point
[1:39:17] out and not begin to pick on my friends and
[1:39:19] the police or the police board, which I'm a member
[1:39:22] of. The 4.5% increase that we're proposing. 2.92 increase is
[1:39:29] from policing. Only one point. 6%. Is municipal budget. So
[1:39:37] if we were to go back and present this to
[1:39:39] the public, whatever the number may be. May ask to
[1:39:42] report. That separately of 1.6%. That is, the tax rate
[1:39:48] increase or the municipal portion of the budget. A couple
[1:39:53] of other numbers I want to point out before I
[1:39:55] proceed, because the county today. Did approve. Their increase, which
[1:40:01] is 3.78. We'll all recall that the municipal portion is
[1:40:07] 57%. 32% is the county and 10%. Is education tax.
[1:40:16] When you roll all of those in. 3.8% increase on
[1:40:21] the tax bill. Me, that seems to be a fairly
[1:40:24] responsible budget. But I'm not going to go through the
[1:40:29] entire presentation. I believe Lindsey would do that. But I
[1:40:31] just want to tell you what my thought process was.
[1:40:35] And this will answer the question as why I removed.
[1:40:40] The police annex do. Things went through my mind. I
[1:40:42] am aware of Councilor Derbyshire. I remember. The line you
[1:40:44] used. We have a pretty good credit card. But you
[1:40:48] don't want to run it up. So I did remove
[1:40:50] a couple of things. From debt and you look at
[1:40:53] the original documents. Staff had proposed Head street. I believe
[1:40:58] that was a $6 million pen. Maybe eight is rather
[1:41:02] significant. There are a few things that I feel we
[1:41:06] need to do before we proceed with any big debt.
[1:41:10] Again. Councilor Derbyshire is right. We have a credit card.
[1:41:13] You'll see reference in the document both the debt policy
[1:41:17] we need to complete the debt. Policy. We need to.
[1:41:22] Complete the asset management plan. We need to understand what
[1:41:26] all the projects are, rather than every year. Going through
[1:41:30] picking and choosing plans. We need to project. We need
[1:41:34] to have a four year, multi year budget on capital
[1:41:38] so that was my thought process on the debt. I
[1:41:41] am aware of those things. We have spent a lot
[1:41:44] of money in the past few years. On capital. Roads,
[1:41:49] fire stations. I just think we need to take a
[1:41:52] bit of a pause on our debt. Really understand where
[1:41:55] we are before we proceed any further. There was. One
[1:42:01] other part that I had my finger on, and that
[1:42:03] was. On parks and recreation. Every year we move. Aside
[1:42:10] projects on parks and back. You look at some of
[1:42:13] the projects. They've been lingering since 2020. Those weren't initially
[1:42:19] approved. If you recall too. We had asked for parks
[1:42:24] and get the wrong term, director Lilborn, but a part
[1:42:26] condition report. That wasn't in the initial pass from staff.
[1:42:33] I asked that all those items be put back in,
[1:42:37] and I did so by asking. Let's use reserves. We
[1:42:41] have a fairly healthy reserves of parks and recreation, but
[1:42:46] to have items sit for five, six years and not
[1:42:49] action them. That doesn't seem right to me. That was
[1:42:53] one place where I had my finger on is let's.
[1:42:57] Get those projects done and. I've kept an email under
[1:43:02] my blotter on my desk since August from the folks
[1:43:05] that are. The adult baseball that you got a Yorkview
[1:43:09] park for, I believe ten years they've been asking for
[1:43:12] another field fence and a warning track. Number of times.
[1:43:17] This year, games are postponed because the dugouts and the
[1:43:20] clay. They weren't initially in there. Let's put them in
[1:43:25] part of what we have. To do is be aware
[1:43:28] of what the community wants. The other finger that I
[1:43:32] had on the pie, if you will, was 137. Frank
[1:43:37] Street Council had initially approved $500,000 to go towards that
[1:43:42] project. I asked that we include another $500,000. Taking money
[1:43:47] out of reserves. Let's complete that project. Need to complete
[1:43:50] that project for two reasons. It's important for us as
[1:43:55] a. Municipal staff or run out of space here. We
[1:43:58] all know that it's part of the service strategy. But
[1:44:03] the community is asking for that to be done. So
[1:44:04] when I went through the budget, I looked at it
[1:44:07] from debt and what the community wants. Another area where
[1:44:11] I put. My. Use term where I asked to be
[1:44:16] included. Were for the two new staff members initially. Staff
[1:44:20] left that out. I said we need to put those
[1:44:22] back in because they're part of a strategy. We created
[1:44:25] a strategy. A long term stopping strategy. To deviate from
[1:44:30] that. We've made a plan. So the two that I
[1:44:33] said we. Should be back in. We're the asset manager.
[1:44:36] I believe that's needed. And also. The communications person. So
[1:44:40] in terms of the overall. Budget. That was the influence,
[1:44:44] if you will, a strong mayor. I put it on
[1:44:47] just two things. Just watch your debt. Let's get the
[1:44:50] debt policy in place. Let's understand the asset management. Let's
[1:44:54] create a four year long term strategy. And let's do
[1:44:58] some things for the community that they can see. Things
[1:45:01] like parks. And that's all over. That's not just strategy
[1:45:05] and War II in places there are parks that need
[1:45:08] to be fixed. So that's what I did. Chair. So
[1:45:12] with that. I'll turn over to Lindsay if you want
[1:45:14] to go through the presentation. And I don't think we
[1:45:17] need to do the death by PowerPoint chair, but we
[1:45:21] can do it at a high level if you wish.
[1:45:24] That would be better. Thank you. I know you. Hey.
[1:45:28] Good evening, mayor, members of council. Thank you for having
[1:45:31] me here tonight to present. This is my first council
[1:45:35] presentation, so bear with me as I'm working through a
[1:45:37] little bit of nerves, trying my best. Okay, so the
[1:45:42] purpose of tonight's meeting, we're going to provide an overview
[1:45:45] of. The proposed 2026 municipal budget. Although the overall responsibility
[1:45:50] for the budget has now changed under the new legislation,
[1:45:53] the journey we've followed this far. In preparing the budget
[1:45:56] has been the same. Staff have worked collaboratively with the
[1:46:00] mayor to prepare a budget that aligns with the municipality's.
[1:46:03] Strategic priorities, supports essential services and delivers value for residents
[1:46:08] of Strathricare. So our agenda for this evening includes a
[1:46:13] quick recap of the budget process under the new strong
[1:46:15] mayor powers comments on the overall economic and policy context.
[1:46:21] A discussion of key financial challenges and strategic opportunities. And
[1:46:25] what we're all here for, of course, the presentation of
[1:46:27] the budget and we'll. Wrap up with some comments on
[1:46:30] what it means for property owners in our community. And
[1:46:34] provide a timeline for some next steps. So the December
[1:46:38] 15 meeting of council, you received a guide to the
[1:46:40] strong mayor's budget. Providing information on the new legislation and
[1:46:44] its impact on the budget process. Following the new framework,
[1:46:49] our goal for this evening is to complete step one.
[1:46:53] The mayor is introducing the proposed budget to council. At
[1:46:56] the end of the presentation, we'll circle back to the
[1:46:58] timeline and requirements for council, how we're going to move
[1:47:01] forward. With the remaining steps and the budget goes up.
[1:47:06] The 2026 proposed budget was prepared. Keeping in mind the
[1:47:10] realities of our current economic landscape, we must consider the
[1:47:14] impact of inflation and interest rate pressures. We're in competition
[1:47:17] with other municipalities. For available funding for the province, and
[1:47:21] increasingly it's on an application basis. We just don't get
[1:47:27] sums of money. We have to apply for it provincially
[1:47:30] and. Locally, we're seeing housing and demographic shifts, and through
[1:47:34] asset management planning, we're increasingly aware of infrastructure funding gaps.
[1:47:40] The municipality is facing incremental pressures which are driving up
[1:47:43] the cost of operations there's. An expectations to maintain or
[1:47:46] increase our levels of service, often with the same or
[1:47:49] a decrease. In amount of resources. The service delivery review
[1:47:55] that was conducted recently highlighted the need for additional staff.
[1:47:59] If this was outlined in the four year staffing plan
[1:48:01] that was presented to council. Under the plan to maintain
[1:48:05] council's desired levels of service, it was recommended that six
[1:48:08] new positions be created in 2026. But keeping in mind
[1:48:12] the operating cost pressures. The proposed budget before you tonight.
[1:48:17] I have includes three of the positions. One of them
[1:48:19] is not. Scheduled to start till the fall or near
[1:48:21] the end of 2026. That would be the either customer
[1:48:25] service rep, but the asset analyst and the communications analyst
[1:48:28] are for the full year. As our asset management plan
[1:48:33] suggests, Strawberry Caradock be investing $13 million annually to address
[1:48:39] capital requirements. Historically, we've been allocating approximately $3 million in
[1:48:45] taxation annually to capital annual transfers. Are being made to
[1:48:49] the asset management plan and the future needs reserved to
[1:48:52] address infrastructure gaps. The proposed budget tonight. I think it's
[1:48:56] $300,000 for a transfer. But it's important to note that
[1:49:01] the infrastructure gap continues to be compounded by construction. Inflation.
[1:49:05] So we do have a need to invest in capital.
[1:49:07] It's there. The gas is growing more and more expensive
[1:49:10] every year. This was just a quick slide showing the
[1:49:15] correlation between. The CPI and our municipal cost growth in
[1:49:20] the past two years. So the challenges from the current
[1:49:23] economic landscape and cost pressures have also created some strategic
[1:49:26] opportunities, reserves and debt need to be used strategically. The
[1:49:30] mayor spoke a bit to that and a little bit
[1:49:32] more on that later. Intergovernmental grants must be pursued to
[1:49:37] fill in the funding gaps. Modernization and digitization of services,
[1:49:42] along with regional collaboration, provides an opportunity for the municipality
[1:49:46] to realize operational efficiencies. It is also important to continue
[1:49:50] to diversify revenue streams and decrease reliance on property taxes.
[1:49:55] So the first strategic opportunity just to touch on considering
[1:49:59] the use of reserves and reserve funds. The municipality currently
[1:50:03] has $44.6 million available in reserves and reserve funds. That
[1:50:08] doesn't include any 2025 budgeted transfers or. The interest that
[1:50:12] gets allocated every year. Those entries are still outstanding. At
[1:50:17] Stratfordcare can be strategic. It is use of reserves and
[1:50:19] reserve funds versus using property taxes. To address infrastructure gaps.
[1:50:25] And the other opportunity that the mayor touched on was
[1:50:29] the use of debt. We've paid down a considerable amount
[1:50:33] of debt in the recent years, and all of this.
[1:50:35] From debt will be repayed by the end of 2030.
[1:50:39] Also the fir. The 20 and 24 fir. Suggested our
[1:50:43] annual repayment limit of that would be 11.5 million. So
[1:50:47] this demonstrates that we have the capacity to take on
[1:50:49] debt, especially. To address these infrastructure deficits. And as the
[1:50:55] mayor had suggested, it's important to be strategic. Finance department
[1:50:58] plans to bring a debt policy to council in early
[1:51:01] 2026. Actually, I believe it. Might be at the next
[1:51:03] meeting on the 19th. We're also in the process of
[1:51:06] updating the municipality's long term financial plan, which will map
[1:51:09] out the long term projected capital needs from all the
[1:51:12] departments, so we'll have everything in one document. All the
[1:51:17] needs over a certain period of time. So those two
[1:51:19] documents will be very important tools. For councils to use
[1:51:21] when prioritizing future capital needs. So now the reason we're
[1:51:25] here. The 2026 proposed municipal budget. Combining both operations and
[1:51:31] capital for looking at a consolidated tax rate increase of
[1:51:35] 4.53%. And due to increases in industrial and commercial sectors,
[1:51:41] impact has projected our assessment growth to be 2.72% for
[1:51:45] 2026. In 2025, our growth rate was only 1%. So,
[1:51:50] as you might recall, growth directly impacts the tax rate.
[1:51:54] As assessment growth increases, the tax rate decreases. So, in
[1:51:57] essence, We're able to abuse this assessment growth to spread
[1:52:01] the tax needs over the larger assessment. Base. Now we'll
[1:52:05] just jump into looking at the operating budget. Total $61.6
[1:52:11] million. And of that, $26 million would be for property
[1:52:14] taxes and 25.6 billion from other sources of revenue. So
[1:52:19] this demonstrates the high reliance of the operating budget on
[1:52:22] property taxes. It's just over half. This life is a
[1:52:26] little hard to see, but just a quick snapshot of.
[1:52:31] The most operating budgets for each department. And it shows
[1:52:35] the taxation required and then also the non tax revenues.
[1:52:39] So we have overall a requirement of $26 million, and
[1:52:42] this would be a levy increase of 2.68 million from
[1:52:45] 2025. Or eleven point 48%. In the agenda package this
[1:52:50] evening, there's a number of documents the 2026 proposed operating
[1:52:54] budget. There's one that's the summary and one that's detailed
[1:52:58] and also a budget template. If you refer to those
[1:53:01] documents, we'll provide some background for this one. Here more
[1:53:05] details. Just did a few slides just to kind of
[1:53:09] break down. Where the 51.6 million coming from. So the
[1:53:15] first slide here just shows it by the source of
[1:53:17] revenue. This will show how the proposed operating budget will
[1:53:20] be funding. So again, you can see that the operating
[1:53:23] budget is highly reliant on property taxes at just over
[1:53:26] 50%. And the next largest source of revenue would be
[1:53:29] the user fees at 37 point. Eight. The next line
[1:53:33] here. We're just breaking down the amount. By department. So
[1:53:39] the graph will show the funds to be how it
[1:53:40] will be utilized throughout the municipality, and as you can
[1:53:44] see, protective services, engineering and public works and municipal services
[1:53:47] have the largest budgets in total 85%. And finally. This
[1:53:56] last slide here is going to show the breakdown of
[1:53:58] the budget by expense type. So just a snapshot of
[1:54:02] how the money is going to be spent. So almost
[1:54:05] 45% of the municipal operating budget will go towards salaries
[1:54:09] and benefits. Budgeted transfers to reserves of 18.7% are mostly
[1:54:14] comprised of water and wastewater rate stabilization transfers as well
[1:54:18] as transfers into the fleet reserve for various departments. There's
[1:54:22] also services and rents about 16.8%. That would be for
[1:54:26] contracted services, things like garbage collection, purchase of water. Now.
[1:54:31] We'll go transition over to capital. The budget before you
[1:54:37] today is 14 and a half million dollars and. Of
[1:54:42] that asking for taxation of $2.1 billion. Actually is a
[1:54:46] levy decrease of about 986,000 from last year. Since less
[1:54:50] taxation is being proposed. An effort has been made to
[1:54:52] finance the projects with reserves, grants and debt. Whenever province
[1:54:57] so there's a list of notable projects on the slide
[1:54:59] there. But a complete list of projects can be found
[1:55:02] in the 2026 capital discussion document that was in the
[1:55:05] agenda package, and there's also a section that. Shows additional
[1:55:09] projects that were brought forward by departments but ultimately not
[1:55:12] included in the capital budget. Just a couple of slides
[1:55:16] here to show a breakdown of the 14 and a
[1:55:18] half million. The first one is by department. So you
[1:55:22] can see about 60% of the proposed projects are for
[1:55:25] engineering and public works. About 19% has been allocated to
[1:55:29] community services. As the mayor spoke, there was an effort
[1:55:33] to clean up some parks and rec and arena projects.
[1:55:36] Using departmental reserves and also the municipal services budget includes
[1:55:40] a million dollars allocated to 137 Frank Street. So, finally,
[1:55:45] this slide provides a breakdown of the 14 and a
[1:55:48] half million by revenue source. Basically, it will show how
[1:55:53] the capital projects will be financed for the year 35.4%.
[1:55:57] Of projects will be financed via grants. So Osif. Community
[1:56:02] Canadian Community building funds in NG 911. User fees are
[1:56:06] comprised of water and sewer rates, which will be used
[1:56:09] for EPW projects and it will finance about 19% discounted
[1:56:13] projects. Almost two and a half million, or 17% of
[1:56:17] projects will be financed by reserves. And as you can
[1:56:20] see, taxation makes up a small component of the capital
[1:56:22] budget. At only 14 and a half percent. So where
[1:56:27] will the post taxation come from? An assessment base consolidating
[1:56:31] both the proposed operating capital budgets and considering other sources
[1:56:35] of revenue that are available for municipality that get applied
[1:56:38] to the taxation and grants departments, the municipality will require
[1:56:42] total taxation of just over $26 million for 2020. Six.
[1:56:47] This graph here breaks down. That by property tax class.
[1:56:51] So showing where the taxations will come from in our
[1:56:53] community as you can see, three quarters of the municipal
[1:56:57] tax base is comprised of residential properties, and this breakdown.
[1:57:02] Is consistent with the 2025 assessment base as well. The
[1:57:05] next slide here. The mayor spoke briefly about two it's
[1:57:08] important to note that. The tax increase of 4.53 that
[1:57:13] we're proposing. That only makes up a portion. Of the
[1:57:16] tax bill. The municipality also collects levies for the county
[1:57:19] and the province. In 2025, the percentages were 55% was
[1:57:25] municipal. 32 was provincial. Sorry. County was 32 and province
[1:57:31] was 13. And we're not expecting the percentages to change
[1:57:34] very much for the year. And this slide here, what
[1:57:38] does it mean for property owners? We've updated the slides
[1:57:41] just to provide some clarification on what we originally sent
[1:57:44] out versus for residential and farm rates. Property owners, Mr.
[1:57:49] Ethra Caradock will see an increase of $36.42 for every
[1:57:53] $100,000 of assessed value. For example, a $400,000 home would
[1:57:58] see an increase of $145.68 a million dollar property. Farm
[1:58:05] property would see an increase of 360 419 at the
[1:58:07] residential rate. Or if you're looking just at a billion
[1:58:10] dollars in farmland, it would be $91.05. And again. This
[1:58:14] is just on the municipal portion of the taxital. We
[1:58:18] just had one more slide for context. We just wanted
[1:58:20] to include. The 2024 BMA municipal study. This chart ranks
[1:58:26] the neighboring municipalities by their average 2020. Four property taxes
[1:58:31] on a detached bungalow. Stress rotate is right in the
[1:58:34] middle of the lower rank. There. Finally. We're just going
[1:58:40] to wrap up with a quick timeline for the budget
[1:58:42] process. Departments submitted their budgets over the summer. In the
[1:58:47] fall, we spent delivering and refining them. And as mentioned
[1:58:51] at the start of the presentation. Today marks the first
[1:58:54] step in the new process. We're presenting the mayor's budget
[1:58:57] to council following the new legislation, should council wish to
[1:59:02] propose amendments to the budget. They must be submitted in
[1:59:04] Wr. Writing to the clerk prior to the February 11
[1:59:07] meeting. I believe a template was circulated today. Just to
[1:59:12] track any limits. That way, a simple majority vote of
[1:59:15] council is required for an amendment. To be added. The
[1:59:18] mayor would then have ten days to be to an
[1:59:21] amendment if he chose. To and council would have 15
[1:59:23] days after that to overturn a mayor's veto and for
[1:59:26] that, to have a two thirds vote of council would
[1:59:28] be required. So we've tentatively set. February 23 and March
[1:59:33] 9 meetings to handle those two steps if they're required.
[1:59:38] And yes, sorry. That was a lot. And a quick
[1:59:40] presentation. Just open up. Any questions? I'm just going to
[1:59:45] follow up with one thing. I'll maybe chair answer the
[1:59:48] elephant in the room. I have no interest in using
[1:59:52] libido powers. Way to look at it. So will a
[1:59:56] council. There's something that I really want in the budget.
[2:00:01] To incorbern upon me to convince poor other counselors to
[2:00:04] vote along with me. So I will not be using
[2:00:07] my veto chair. There you go. There you have it.
[2:00:13] Thank you. Well done, Lindsay. You should be proud. A
[2:00:16] lot of work went into it. So with that, my
[2:00:21] understanding of the process is we receive. The presentation tonight.
[2:00:26] The documents get received by counsel. And then, I mean,
[2:00:31] we can ask clarifying questions this evening. But questions where
[2:00:36] you want to do. Amendments need to be provided in
[2:00:39] writing to the clerk. Is there a specified time period
[2:00:44] prior so that they can get on the agenda? Generally
[2:00:48] five days. Five days? Thinking that those questions need to
[2:00:52] be drafted. Or really, it would be the amendments, the
[2:00:55] requested amendments. Need to be drafted and put into the
[2:00:58] clerk. Five days prior so that they can be properly
[2:01:04] posted. And that's, I think, probably when the big discussion
[2:01:09] happens at council. So I think tonight what we're looking
[2:01:15] for is if there's clarifying questions. That we just need
[2:01:17] to get sorted out. We still have to figure out
[2:01:20] what next steps would be. But are there clarifying questions?
[2:01:27] Errors, et cetera. So I'll start with Greg. I saw
[2:01:30] your hand up. No, Frank. And was it bow? You
[2:01:33] had your hand. Mine was just about the written thing.
[2:01:38] Okay, so that's Greg and Frank and Donna and. Both.
[2:01:42] And I'll try to do my best to use your
[2:01:45] last name. Some counselor. Sorry. My first clarifying question is
[2:01:52] just on the debt schedule we have. All the loans
[2:01:55] are amortized. Over 30 years. That's a fire truck, road
[2:01:58] and fire estate. And there's two roads projects there. Typically,
[2:02:04] we've done roads 15 years and fire. Trucks at ten.
[2:02:07] Our asset management plan says a road is only good
[2:02:10] for 25 years. But we're financing it for 30, according
[2:02:12] to the debt schedule. And the asset management also says
[2:02:15] a truck is good for ten to 15 and we're
[2:02:17] financing it for 30, so we're going to be paying
[2:02:19] for that truck 20 years after we take it out
[2:02:20] of service, so. I just want to make sure that
[2:02:22] that was intentional or see if that was a mistake.
[2:02:26] Just so I know, for my motion, I hear it.
[2:02:31] Somebody from finance. So through the charity councilor Wolsey. So
[2:02:35] all of those are proposed. So we haven't. Even entered
[2:02:38] into any arrangements on any of those debts yet, so
[2:02:41] those are basically just using numbers. Once we bring those
[2:02:48] forward. In fact, all of those have to come forward.
[2:02:52] To council. So with those. They'll be in but fire
[2:02:55] trucks. You're correct. You can't go beyond. The useful life,
[2:02:59] so those will be. I guess a different debt schedule,
[2:03:02] and that's going to change the tax rate and everything.
[2:03:04] Else then? So you're saying that that would change tax
[2:03:12] rate for sure? Because we're going to be paying over
[2:03:20] 15 years or ten years instead of 30, so. Our
[2:03:23] payments are going to change. And that's the entire debt
[2:03:25] schedule, except for potentially the firewall. It will advertise over
[2:03:30] a juiceable life, so. I appreciate that, council. I just
[2:03:35] wanted to put it in the form of, like, a
[2:03:37] question that. We can get an answer to or just
[2:03:40] state that it's a comment and we can move on.
[2:03:44] Director Deacon, did you want to answer that? Will all
[2:03:50] the numbers then change? Are you going to change the
[2:03:52] numbers accordingly? Through the chair to councilor Wolsey will update
[2:03:57] those numbers. On that. Don't include both interest. Yeah, well,
[2:04:06] you're looking at that. If we could just update the
[2:04:08] Excel firms as well. Because currently. The established. Principal outstanding
[2:04:14] includes the interest and the principal. It only includes the
[2:04:17] principal. For updating it. We'll just update the whole sheet,
[2:04:20] make it correct. Thank you. As I was just mentioning
[2:04:25] to the chair. To the mayor. The interest rates. There
[2:04:31] are 4.7, which. We're probably below now. These are done
[2:04:36] back in 2023, I think. Or 2024. A lot of
[2:04:40] these. So we'll update the interest rates, plus. The terms
[2:04:45] as well. All right, council cash. Yeah. I guess I
[2:04:53] want to go back to that police annex thing. I
[2:04:56] think we have to make the assumption that's going to
[2:04:58] be included. Because it's been submitted by the police Services
[2:05:05] board. I would ask them sometime over the next few
[2:05:10] days. We get? Something other. Or we're making the assumption
[2:05:17] that. The whole would be about $9 million that needs.
[2:05:25] To be while the projects tended to happen. I think
[2:05:27] we've got reserves and. So a million and a half.
[2:05:31] So say it's $9 million. Is that going to be?
[2:05:36] I assume borrowed. And so how is that going to.
[2:05:41] Impact everything. Can I ask? Because I know that's the
[2:05:45] outstanding question. And it sounds like now the municipal budget
[2:05:50] is going to have some outstanding questions that need to
[2:05:52] be addressed. So I think at the end, once we
[2:05:55] go around and kind of everybody asks their clarifying question,
[2:05:58] then we have to determine next step and how those
[2:06:00] council want to deal with next step and bring that
[2:06:02] back. Is that fair? Well, that's fair. I think we
[2:06:06] need to keep that in mind, too. Yes, we do.
[2:06:09] Councilor pammer. I have to set a couple of little
[2:06:13] questions. One was about the Strasbourg library carpet replacement. Going
[2:06:20] to director Lilborn. That is the county's building, is my
[2:06:25] understanding, and they run the library, so I'm. Just wondering
[2:06:27] why we are replacing. Through the chair to councilor pammer.
[2:06:32] The county is a tenant within our building, so if
[2:06:36] a county pays a lease to us on a monthly
[2:06:39] basis. So the carpet that's in there currently exceeds 25
[2:06:44] years old. And is due to be replaced. Thank you
[2:06:51] for clarifying. And the other question that I had. This,
[2:06:56] I guess would go to direct. Ortiz. I didn't see
[2:06:57] the downtown. Revitalization or infrastructure project anywhere listed, and I'm
[2:07:03] just wondering where that is at. And. Where you see
[2:07:08] that being placed in either this budget. Is there any
[2:07:10] stage board in 2026? Or is it all being deferred
[2:07:14] till later? I like direct. There's actually a good news
[2:07:18] story in there and includes Mount Bridges. I'll ask. What's
[2:07:23] the good news? I'll answer the question, then I'll let
[2:07:27] the mayor share a good news story. About. Bridges. Because
[2:07:33] that project is a carry forward from previous years. It
[2:07:38] is not part of listed here, but it is in
[2:07:41] the budget, so it is part of. The carry for
[2:07:43] it, so we have about $200,000. Set aside for that
[2:07:48] project. So part of the clarity regarding Mount Bridge, I
[2:07:52] initially asked that we need to. Do the study for
[2:07:56] the Mount Bridges downtown revitalization. I think that may have
[2:08:00] got left. Out of maybe 50,000. So as part of
[2:08:03] correcting this, we'll be adding those dollars back in. But
[2:08:06] that'll come out of reserves. We ask just for the
[2:08:09] study. From all bridges. Do you have anything else? Thank
[2:08:13] you, Councilor Derbyshire. All right, so we're adding more stuff
[2:08:19] in without, like, it's going to be very hard for
[2:08:22] council. To analyze all this without. I know everything's. We're
[2:08:28] going to figure it out, and then. It'll just get.
[2:08:33] Anyways, it doesn't matter now. We'll figure it. Out at
[2:08:34] the end of the meeting what council wants to do
[2:08:36] us next steps with all of these questions, what council
[2:08:39] wants to do with next steps. Okay, but let's get
[2:08:42] all the questions out on the floor first. Then we'll
[2:08:45] figure out how we're going to deal with it and
[2:08:46] receive the information. So in our proposed. I'll just go
[2:08:51] through. You. When we look at our capital. We have
[2:08:57] the Mount bridges wastewater. Servicing, design and construction. Is that
[2:09:03] the transformation from like, is that the switching from Roto
[2:09:08] to. Open aeration. And I see. We only have 500,000.
[2:09:18] 500,000 budgeted for that. So I just wondered about that
[2:09:24] one. The other one I wondered for is we don't.
[2:09:26] Even have the lagoon. In stratroy. And that unless that
[2:09:30] is the stratroy wastewater sledge handling facility, at 300,000. Councilor
[2:09:36] Ortiz. Yeah. Thank you. Through the chair to councilor Derbyshire.
[2:09:40] So that 500,000. That is for. The future. The large
[2:09:46] scale design and construction for expansion. We anticipate that being
[2:09:51] expended probably in a future year. So we have a
[2:09:55] phase in approach for funding on that, so that'll probably
[2:09:58] be going into wastewater reserves. The other project that you
[2:10:05] were referring to? Well, the actual construction of. Switching it
[2:10:10] over. Where's it? In this budget. That's the environmental assessment.
[2:10:19] And. That's one point. We have that funded already. In
[2:10:24] 2020 from 2025. So then. That will then be coming
[2:10:28] out of the water and wastewater. Reserves. All of it.
[2:10:34] Right. That'll be the same. It'll be coming out of
[2:10:38] there. Both those projects are part of the 2025, so
[2:10:44] they're just carrying forward into 2026. These are all brand
[2:10:47] new projects. These ones listed here. Councilor wilson. In that
[2:10:55] same vein. On projects that council's already approved. I looked
[2:10:59] through the capital list over the week, and there's projects
[2:11:02] that have been approved and they're still using numbers from
[2:11:04] 2021. Beyond the numbers. Being like four or five years
[2:11:08] old when you take a look at the numbers, and
[2:11:10] the amount that's been set aside, there's a $12 million
[2:11:14] liability. Even at the numbers from probably from 21 and
[2:11:17] 22 and 23 over the last five years of projects.
[2:11:19] That council has approved and hasn't been built. What is
[2:11:23] our plan to fund that $12 million shortfall? And that
[2:11:27] number is only going to grow as we actually update
[2:11:29] the prices from five years ago. I don't see anything.
[2:11:32] In this budget or any of the previous budgets to
[2:11:34] address that. And I got a second one on the
[2:11:38] asset management plan deficit, but just want to know what
[2:11:40] our plan is to address that 12 million. Dollar funding
[2:11:44] liability. Through the chair to councilor wills. If you could
[2:11:47] just send me your calculations how you got that 12
[2:11:50] million. It's right on your document, on your capital. I'll
[2:11:59] look it up here in one of the documents on
[2:12:00] our sheet to make. But typically. The two wastewater treatment
[2:12:06] plants are a good example. Those came in originally. Numbers,
[2:12:11] original numbers came in. When we actually moved forward with
[2:12:15] the project, those numbers were updated. So last year you
[2:12:18] added money. To the mount breaches project you added money
[2:12:22] to. The Strapberry project. In 2025, so those numbers get
[2:12:29] updated as the project moves forward. I guess in addition
[2:12:33] to that, if you want to look at the numbers
[2:12:34] I'm talking about where I got that number from is
[2:12:36] from your reserve. Reserve funds, trust funds and deferred. Revenue
[2:12:39] analysis. The last page shows that we have approved 35
[2:12:44] million in funding. And this is just on water and
[2:12:48] wastewater project. It doesn't include any of the other ones
[2:12:49] we've done. We approved 35.7 million. And some of those
[2:12:56] projects are. It's not park house. Drive in there that
[2:12:58] only has just over 2 million in funding for a
[2:13:01] seven and a half. Million dollar project, and I know
[2:13:03] some of that comes out of. Development charges. But when
[2:13:07] you look at the budget allocated in the project, those
[2:13:10] two line items there they only have 23 million to
[2:13:13] cover. 37.5 million projects. I'm just wondering, those are all
[2:13:18] water and wastewater approved projects. There's likely going to be
[2:13:22] debt for that. But there's a $12 million gap that
[2:13:25] I don't see addressed anywhere in the capital budgets or
[2:13:28] in any of the documents in front of us. So
[2:13:31] through the chair to council was. If I understand you're
[2:13:33] using the reserve. Reserve fund. Trust fund security deposit analysis
[2:13:42] report. Is that the one you're looking at? Yes, just
[2:13:45] on the last page where you've got the water wastewater
[2:13:48] projects allocated but unspent. The last section after everything. Then
[2:13:53] your totals for that section. Give the proposed budget and
[2:13:59] then what's been allocated. Right, so allocated. Is money that
[2:14:06] has been allocated from the reserves. Going to. That last
[2:14:13] section that chart the water wastewater project allocation. But unspent.
[2:14:20] The proposed budget shows what the budget costs are. The
[2:14:24] two columns show exactly what we're pulling out of the
[2:14:26] reserves, so that is only. The reserve portion of the
[2:14:31] funding for those projects. There'd be debt, there'd be grants,
[2:14:35] there'd be all sorts of other. Things that get added
[2:14:39] to come up. So using the example. Of the Mount
[2:14:43] bridges. Wastewater treatment at 11 million proposed 11 million. We're
[2:14:50] pulling over 10 million. Just over 10. Million other, the
[2:14:53] sewers, so the balance would come out of grant. Or
[2:14:56] other forms of funding. To bring up that we're just
[2:15:01] showing what's coming out of reserves here. Yeah. And I
[2:15:03] get that. And that's where I'm wondering if there's $12.
[2:15:06] Million more in debt and grant somewhere else. That's not
[2:15:09] anywhere in our lives. We're not showing that there's more.
[2:15:12] Debt that we have to take on. We're just ignoring
[2:15:13] that we have this $12. Million liability. It's not in
[2:15:17] our debt schedule. We're not planning on paying for anything.
[2:15:21] We don't know what grants we're applying for. We got
[2:15:24] to come up with 12 million somehow, and it's not
[2:15:26] reflected anywhere in the budget, and we're not planning for
[2:15:28] it until he gets here. That's my point. And just
[2:15:31] if that's our plan and that's how we want to
[2:15:32] go ahead. Then I'll answer that, councilor. I think that's
[2:15:35] part of my thought process. And we realize, however we
[2:15:38] get there, We have some projects that need some funding,
[2:15:42] whether it's debt, so that was my thought. Process, but
[2:15:45] these are already approved projects from last year, so we're
[2:15:48] just ignoring that there's 12 million that we might have
[2:15:50] to do an additional debt this year. Through the chair.
[2:15:53] Council will see. So I think what you need to
[2:15:55] do is take this document. And compare it to the
[2:15:58] actual capital budget, which actually shows each of those projects
[2:16:02] and how we're funding them. It's just short in the
[2:16:07] reserves, right? Answering the mayor, I guess. What? This document
[2:16:16] that you're referring to, council. Looks at just the reserve
[2:16:19] portion. So it'd be very similar to if you were
[2:16:23] building a house. And you're saying, here's what I got
[2:16:26] in my savings account. You show what you have in
[2:16:28] your savings account. You're looking at the savings account. Obviously
[2:16:32] you got other money set aside. You're going to take
[2:16:34] a mortgage or other things to make up the difference.
[2:16:37] And so if you take this just shows a reserve
[2:16:40] amount. Doesn't show. That that doesn't show any grants that
[2:16:45] are going against these. And I guess to follow up
[2:16:49] on that, none of those projects show up on the
[2:16:50] desk schedule. Either. So there's no debt. So everything is
[2:16:52] grants for all of those projects. It does not come
[2:16:56] out of reserves and there's no debt because it's not.
[2:16:59] On the debt schedule. Everything is grants for all of
[2:17:01] those projects. It has to be on the debt schedule
[2:17:04] too, if you're paying for debt. That was kind of
[2:17:07] my point, that they're not on the debt schedule. And
[2:17:11] if it's debt and grant it's paying for it, that
[2:17:12] means we're. Grants. We've got $12 million in grants coming
[2:17:15] for those projects. Through the charity councilor Willsie. So if
[2:17:21] you look at the Mount bridges wastewater treatment plant, for
[2:17:24] instance, There is 11 million proposed budget. There's just over
[2:17:31] 10 million. So there's a million. This is coming from
[2:17:34] another. Source. On that, and I would need to look
[2:17:37] at. The capital budget to give you where that money
[2:17:41] is coming from. That note there. The wastewater is negative
[2:17:49] 9 million in reserves. If you go up there, if
[2:17:53] you take that 11 million out, it's negative 9 million.
[2:17:58] That's just on the debts. If you scroll up to
[2:18:00] where that is. So that 9 million has to come
[2:18:06] from somewhere, and I know we've already said it's. Probably
[2:18:09] coming from the water portion of things at this point.
[2:18:12] That was kind of part of the discussion, but. There's
[2:18:17] nowhere on here does it say how this does the
[2:18:19] other thing we were told? Was. There's also a $6
[2:18:21] million either loan or grant, plus. A $6 million loan
[2:18:27] and a million dollar grant for this project. But because
[2:18:29] it was approved midway through last year, it was going
[2:18:32] to be put on to this. Budget so we could
[2:18:35] see how this was going. But it's not here because
[2:18:38] they're like, well, it was approved last year. But it
[2:18:41] wasn't approved in last year's budget. We had put a
[2:18:45] place marker because we love place markers. We put it
[2:18:49] in. But now. There's nothing showing what these projects are
[2:18:55] doing. So these projects, we improved last year. We don't
[2:18:58] get to see how they're being done, how they're being
[2:19:00] spent. Move forward. They should have probably been in the
[2:19:04] proposed capital budget as part of it, even if it
[2:19:07] is money and money out. It at least shows where
[2:19:09] it's money and money out the same. As if we're
[2:19:12] spending 9 million on the police thing and they have
[2:19:15] a million in reserve. It still has to be somewhere
[2:19:18] on this budget and show money and money out, even
[2:19:21] if it is a wash. We got to see it
[2:19:24] somewhere. So, director, if I may ask. A number of
[2:19:29] questions I've imposed to you, mostly around water, wastewater. I
[2:19:35] think both of these documents are coming back to us
[2:19:36] in some sort of revised form. We'll figure that out
[2:19:39] in a moment. Is there benefit to taking time to
[2:19:42] putting your thought process together. To solidify that. In that
[2:19:51] amended document. Through the chair to the chair. So these
[2:19:57] documents will be amended. Obviously, we've got to add to
[2:20:00] police annex. According to tonight. Will be updated, plus we
[2:20:07] can update the 25 projects that carry forward. Part of
[2:20:11] it is the 25 carry forward numbers haven't been closed
[2:20:15] off yet because we're still in our 25 year end.
[2:20:18] So as of the end of January, We're cutting off
[2:20:22] our 25 so we can update all the projects from
[2:20:26] 2025. With the updated numbers, so that will be part
[2:20:31] of what would come forward. At the next meeting on
[2:20:36] 11th, I believe it is. So. Council. The big question
[2:20:44] is in my mind been raised by so many what
[2:20:48] is our next steps and we have a police budget
[2:20:52] that may or may not need a line item added.
[2:20:55] Back in more than likely it needs it added back
[2:20:58] in. And then a number of questions have been raised
[2:21:01] about the municipal budget. Some clarifying questions. And I think
[2:21:06] the director needs time to put all of that together.
[2:21:10] Now, keep in mind that we have 30 days from
[2:21:13] today to finish our process. Which is February the 11th.
[2:21:21] We can have as many meetings as we want in
[2:21:22] that period of time, but we have to be done
[2:21:23] by February the 11th. It then goes back to the
[2:21:25] mayor. So with that being said. I am thinking we
[2:21:32] probably need to get these documents revised and back into
[2:21:38] our hands. Sooner than February the 11th. Does anybody feel
[2:21:45] differently or want to make comment to that? Because otherwise,
[2:21:48] I think we need to be looking at another meeting.
[2:21:50] Councilor Brennan. Cassill. The deadline for making amendments to hand
[2:21:56] the clerk would be Friday, February the 6th. Because you
[2:21:59] wanted to have five days before the 11th, is that
[2:22:01] correct? So there's a date. The deadline for making amendments
[2:22:07] heading into the clerk is February. The 6th. So my
[2:22:09] thought is. By far. I'm not an expert in this.
[2:22:13] I just reviewed those bullet points about the legislation, I
[2:22:16] guess, is the better way to put it. We can
[2:22:18] hold two or three meetings within that period of time.
[2:22:22] But. Our last meeting has to be kind of put
[2:22:26] together by February 6 so that we can do it
[2:22:28] and have it completed. On the 11th because after that,
[2:22:33] We lose carriage of the process. Correct. So, do we
[2:22:38] want to do something quicker? Than that point in time.
[2:22:43] Councilor Pam. I just have a question, perhaps for the
[2:22:46] clerk, whoever's managing this process. It says here that. The
[2:22:52] mayor proposes a budget that we receive and then council
[2:22:57] can make amendments to the budget. I don't see where
[2:23:01] it says here that the mayor could make amendments to
[2:23:04] his budget. Is he part of council? He just is
[2:23:07] included as party council. Okay, but. That has to be.
[2:23:13] Okay, so then if he makes the changes and bring
[2:23:14] it back to us, Then that would require a resolution.
[2:23:19] Right? Correct. Because this budget is being presented now. It's
[2:23:26] there, correct? We've identified some omissions and changes. So then,
[2:23:30] if. The mayor makes an amendment, then we would have
[2:23:33] to vote on accepting that amendment. Is that correct? Correct.
[2:23:38] Just for clarification, then. So what Don is saying is
[2:23:40] essentially we have to make amendments. To change everything we
[2:23:44] just talked about now? Because it's been presented? I think
[2:23:48] so. They can't just revitalize all of it. Which was
[2:23:52] Donna's question. Do you want to hear some input and
[2:23:55] then take it back and represent it. But now it's.
[2:24:01] And the mayor said he wanted to present his budget.
[2:24:04] Present. Okay, so here we said this would be my
[2:24:07] question. Which was my original one. Back to the written
[2:24:12] amendments. Is that just kind of what we're doing, or
[2:24:15] is that part of this provincial new mandate that we
[2:24:20] have to do written amendments, or could we make amendments
[2:24:23] now? To have these changes done, being. That we're sitting
[2:24:28] here right now, and that would speed this process up
[2:24:30] as opposed to. Five of us making different amendments. Through
[2:24:35] the chair to Councilor Gerber Shire. So although the legislation.
[2:24:41] Doesn't specifically say yay or nay. As far as written
[2:24:44] documentation. I have advised that we document the process by
[2:24:50] written form through every step. Just to be clear and
[2:24:55] concise, to make sure that all motions and amendments are
[2:24:59] made and understood before voting. Okay. So then. If we.
[2:25:06] Yeah, I guess. Then what we need to do is
[2:25:07] make a list. Somebody write them out. The problem is,
[2:25:11] when they ask about. What the financial implications are on
[2:25:15] this. Would you just put, I don't know. Because I
[2:25:22] don't really. What we want is just clarification. Then the
[2:25:29] proper. Stuff put in, right? That's more. I kind of
[2:25:33] agree with you. It's really not a great. Story. We're
[2:25:38] trying to figure it out here, Councilor Brennan and then
[2:25:41] the CAO. It's interesting with the language. It says council
[2:25:45] can make amendments to the proposed budget. I don't believe
[2:25:48] that means. A collective amendment. I think we're looking at
[2:25:51] individual. Counselors. Can write up a written amendment which will
[2:25:58] be given to the clerk before February 6, and then
[2:26:02] they would be dealt with that at a February 11
[2:26:04] meeting. It's not necessary for counsel as a whole to
[2:26:08] collectively put together an amendment. Individual counselors bring forward amendments.
[2:26:13] So it's an individual process by individual counselors, which will
[2:26:17] be brought before council and considered collectively. So the need
[2:26:22] for a meeting to make amendments does not exist. In
[2:26:26] terms of. You don't need to be at a meeting
[2:26:27] to make an amendment. You just write one up and
[2:26:29] submit it to the clerk and it'll get dealt with.
[2:26:31] February. 11. The question is, do we want to have
[2:26:34] discussions about these amendments? That we're considering as individuals in
[2:26:39] the time period between now and February 6, when we
[2:26:41] will have to formally submit them. Well, my thought is.
[2:26:46] With a number of conversations that have occurred this evening.
[2:26:50] Your thought process is going to change dramatically. Let's take
[2:26:54] the police budget. Yeah. Another 10 million into it. Your
[2:26:57] thought process probably is going to change. Not saying your
[2:27:03] fault would change, but your thought process is going to
[2:27:04] achieve. Similarly with the municipal budget. Changes. And decisions made
[2:27:13] at one meeting, and then you're going to leave again
[2:27:14] and perhaps come. Back. Do you want to do it
[2:27:18] all at one meeting, or do you want to get
[2:27:20] more information? Clarification. Get that document in front of you.
[2:27:25] And then. Finalize that one. We don't have the time
[2:27:30] we used to have to deal with it. That's my
[2:27:32] point. Councilor Pammer, councilor Dolphman, on that point, it would
[2:27:37] look like the process and again looking to the clerk
[2:27:39] to confirm. Is that we have one shot. 30 days
[2:27:45] after the pro's budget to make changes or to request
[2:27:49] changes, and then we either have to accept them or
[2:27:51] not. And then there's a ten day sort of resting.
[2:27:55] Period. It doesn't say. Then we can go back and
[2:27:58] ask for another round. 30 days. How many times can
[2:28:03] you. Is this just a one shot? Google deal. Because
[2:28:07] that's why I'm worried about. Presenting the budget tonight as
[2:28:12] is, knowing that. It's likely going to need amendments. Have
[2:28:16] we wasted a whole shot at doing this or. Is
[2:28:20] there more flexibility? I'm asking the clerk. So through the
[2:28:24] chair to councilor Pammer. The first 30 days. Sorry today.
[2:28:33] The bride's budget is presented in day one. Over the
[2:28:36] next 30 days, you have up to 30 days up
[2:28:40] until. That next meeting in February 11 to present, to
[2:28:43] submit any amendments to be put on the agenda. To
[2:28:46] be voted by a simple majority vote. But during that
[2:28:49] 30 day period, if council feels that in this instance
[2:28:53] there's an updated. Budget documents that need to be provided
[2:28:57] if you feel that you want to meet again, to
[2:28:59] have that discussion. To clarify certain items or specific things
[2:29:05] that can be done. It's at council's. Discretion for sure.
[2:29:09] What I heard the clerk say is. You're essentially getting
[2:29:17] a revised budget. Particularly on the police one. You're going
[2:29:20] to get a revised budget. We're going to want to
[2:29:23] receive that. And have 14 or 15 days to review
[2:29:27] that before losing carriage of it on the 11th. That's
[2:29:33] my thought process, but I could be wrong. I had
[2:29:36] bo and Steve, and then I'll go down to the
[2:29:38] mayor. So, Mike, I would just say this. The mayor
[2:29:44] actually has till February 1 to introduce this budget. Today.
[2:29:50] Was just the day that we picked to give us
[2:29:52] a bit of time to move this forward. Right. If
[2:29:56] we don't. I mean, I guess if this is his
[2:29:58] presentation, but if he would. Like to make his presentation
[2:30:02] back. And as long as he presents it before the
[2:30:05] first can we then not. Let's say he presents it
[2:30:09] January 16. Then we go 30 days from the 16th,
[2:30:13] right? The only deadline is essentially the February 1 one.
[2:30:19] Am I right in saying that after that, we moved
[2:30:21] just on the dates and the timelines. If he gets
[2:30:23] it correct, we can actually veto to shorten the distance
[2:30:26] and move it forward. But right now, you have a
[2:30:28] budget that. Needs all. I don't want to say complete
[2:30:32] revision, but there's an awful lot that has to be
[2:30:34] corrected for us to move forward with it. My question
[2:30:39] is, can he just not say, look, I'm sorry? I'm
[2:30:47] going to redo this, and I will represent it this
[2:30:49] date, and then we move forward from that 30 days.
[2:30:53] So, Madam Clerk, can we defer any motion to receive?
[2:30:57] This. And give it back to the mayor using our
[2:31:01] motions. Could we do a motion to. Refer it back
[2:31:06] to the mayor. For. His budget? I don't know. So
[2:31:13] we referred it back to you, Mr. Mayor, with at
[2:31:17] least an answer to. The police. Annex line item. And
[2:31:26] infill as much else as you've heard this evening and
[2:31:29] then represent that. Document to us prior to the first.
[2:31:36] And then council carries its 30 day. Hold of. For
[2:31:42] that period of time. Is that easier, do you think?
[2:31:46] I can do that. I understand. Maybe the safe way
[2:31:52] I look at it, the overall budget, there's one major
[2:31:55] item which. Is the police annex. But again. This is
[2:32:01] like, a lot of legislation. You could drive a pickup,
[2:32:04] you can drive the semi truck. Through the legislation if
[2:32:06] you wanted. So hearing counsel, knowing that there is one
[2:32:10] major. Item. In the will of council. I will.
[2:32:20] Pull it back and come back in one week. Don't
[2:32:23] need to present it. Right, so. Willow council. I think
[2:32:27] I'm doing it because of the one main thing. Any
[2:32:29] errors or omissions could be handled. But with the police
[2:32:32] annex. I am willing to withdraw it for one week,
[2:32:37] and we don't need to reconvene. We'll just reissue it
[2:32:41] so I will start the clock counting. One week. That'll
[2:32:46] have the answer. There's a reason why council is not
[2:32:48] to delay it. It's more because the longer we delay
[2:32:51] the budget process, the more we heard the municipality might
[2:32:55] not be able to put things over tender. That is
[2:32:58] the main thing. Some municipalities are already out there tendering
[2:33:02] road projects and other things. So, that being said, I've
[2:33:05] heard. Counsel, and this is fair. This is a new
[2:33:07] process. I will present it back. Next week, one week
[2:33:15] from today, we should have the answer regarding. The police
[2:33:19] annex. That will be the big item. I can't see
[2:33:22] it changing. The actual increase. What it's going to change
[2:33:26] is. Our debt in the future, so I will do
[2:33:29] that. That's at my discretion, and I will do that
[2:33:31] chair. So then does that satisfy counsel? If the mayor
[2:33:37] does, that reissues. It's one municipal budget, but you'll see
[2:33:42] the police portion budget, and then you'll. See the municipal
[2:33:45] budget all inclusive. And it'll be the date that that
[2:33:50] is released to us that would start the 30 day
[2:33:53] time period pursuant to the legislation. With the debt schedule.
[2:34:02] Would then the plants that have been approved from last
[2:34:06] year not be existing debt, even though. We know where
[2:34:11] they're coming from and how they're coming off. Like the
[2:34:14] debt schedule itself probably needs to be revised. I mean,
[2:34:18] we have the principal and the interest being added together
[2:34:21] and coming off the principal payment. So those principal numbers
[2:34:24] are wrong. Right from Dock Duado. And that's probably not
[2:34:29] a huge amount. But your numbers. We're still not dealing
[2:34:33] with proper numbers. Director DACA will clean that up. No,
[2:34:39] I understand, but I'm telling you, if somebody. Presented this
[2:34:41] to me, like, if I went to an accountant and
[2:34:42] they said, here you go. I mean, you'd be right
[2:34:44] mad. And by all right. So we're doing when we
[2:34:48] come to those existing projects, if they were approved last
[2:34:52] year, Are they going to be on the existing debt
[2:34:55] schedule now? Or no. Where do they go? Who will
[2:35:00] let the director answer? Director Dick. So without looking at
[2:35:04] the. I don't have that in front of me. So
[2:35:07] if there was debt. It should have been on that
[2:35:11] list. So we will take a look and make sure
[2:35:15] that all the debt is showing on the debt. Schedule.
[2:35:19] Okay, there's our answer. That the director is going to
[2:35:23] take all the information and questions. Asked on tonight and
[2:35:27] revise. The document or update the document accordingly. Councilor Wilsey
[2:35:34] and councilor Hippol and then we'll call it just a
[2:35:37] clarification. I think I remember this from last year. Any
[2:35:39] of the projects that finish in 2025. Our first payment
[2:35:42] will not be until the 2027 budget. So even though
[2:35:46] we're taking on this debt now, all the projects now,
[2:35:48] we're sitting up from 20. Four, so. There's been $12
[2:35:52] million of debt that happened last year. If my numbers
[2:35:56] are right. They might not be, but assume around $12
[2:35:59] million of what projects we did in 25, we have
[2:36:01] to pay debt on that, starting in 27. And then
[2:36:05] if we do, the police now that won't finish next
[2:36:07] year, so that'll likely be 28 we have to pay
[2:36:09] on. That 10 million. So the approvals we're doing now
[2:36:13] aren't actually changing our tax rate today. But we're taking
[2:36:16] down the road where we have $12 million in new
[2:36:18] debt that we're going to have to pay next year
[2:36:21] from what we already did and then another. 10 million
[2:36:23] a year after that. Hence the need for the debt
[2:36:27] policy, councilor. Sounds like a credit card. Who's going to
[2:36:36] give us. Okay, 1 second. Sorry. I
[2:36:46] was asking the question about what motions we need to
[2:36:48] complete the meeting and the clerk. Was just working away
[2:36:52] on it, so we had a laugh there. About our
[2:36:55] answer. Councilor Brennan. Councilor Kenneth. Council order. Hip hop. I'm
[2:36:59] sorry, Sandy. Actually, I'm. Going to reverse it. Councilor Pitbull,
[2:37:02] Councilor Candace, Councilor Brennan, she had her hand up before
[2:37:04] and I missed. That's okay. It's actually just a really.
[2:37:07] Easy question. The mayor has said a week from tonight,
[2:37:11] so I'm assuming. Looking at our clerk. The 20 January.
[2:37:17] Okay. Five. Okay, sorry. One week in a week. It's
[2:37:23] really hard. We all have to look at our schedule.
[2:37:25] So I need to make sure. But I think it's
[2:37:28] just being released to us by that date. No meeting.
[2:37:33] We're not meeting. That year. So my question to the
[2:37:37] clerk, so people understand my thought process here. Is that?
[2:37:42] To get out of this meeting and document what it
[2:37:45] is that we've talked. About is. A motion to receive.
[2:37:51] These reports for information. To refer. The budgets back to
[2:37:59] the mayor. For amendment. I'll say a revision. Whichever word
[2:38:05] you want to use. To have them returned. Released back
[2:38:11] to council. Within seven days. Which would then start. The
[2:38:18] 30 day. Time period pursuant to the strong mayor's budget.
[2:38:24] Timetable. So that would encapsulate everything that needs to occur.
[2:38:31] The clerk said, I'm not sure we can do that.
[2:38:35] I laughed because I said I'm not sure who's going
[2:38:36] to give us heck. By doing it. Councilor Kenneth, did
[2:38:42] you still want to ask the question? Well, I guess
[2:38:44] a comment more on the whole debt thing. It sounds
[2:38:50] to me like a lot of projects that we've done
[2:38:53] so far. We've paid out of our own cash. And
[2:38:58] we haven't gone out and got it loan for it
[2:38:59] yet. And so I think we need. To. And perhaps
[2:39:05] this agrees with councilor Wilson and councilor Derbyshire. I think
[2:39:10] we need to. Start getting an idea of what kind
[2:39:13] of debt payments the municipality is going to face moving
[2:39:17] forward. Both in terms of principle and interest, because. That's.
[2:39:23] When we go out and get these loans for projects
[2:39:27] already completed, then the cash comes back in. From the
[2:39:31] debt. Or the loan that's been received. And I think
[2:39:38] we need to have an understanding of. When. And I
[2:39:43] think Councilor Wilse mentioned that, too. An understanding. Of how
[2:39:48] projects move forward. Like, for example, say we do the
[2:39:52] police annex, I just throw that out there and it's.
[2:39:55] A project that's going to start in 2026 and be
[2:39:59] completed in 2027. And at that time, During the whole
[2:40:04] construction process. We finance it internally, basically use our own
[2:40:07] cash, and then we go. Out to market to get
[2:40:09] a loan. And that's something new for the municipality because
[2:40:14] depth has always been such a small portion. Of the
[2:40:18] actual. Taxation cash. I guess that's used, if that makes
[2:40:25] sense, what I'm saying, so. I think we need to
[2:40:27] get a better handle on principal and interest payments moving
[2:40:30] forward. If that makes sense, what I just said. So.
[2:40:38] I think in addition, To the police annex being added.
[2:40:41] I think we need to get a better idea. Of
[2:40:45] debt, principal and interest payments moving forward and how you
[2:40:48] see that external debt curve kind of going up over
[2:40:52] the next number of years again, making I know we
[2:40:54] haven't passed a debt policy yet, but again, having some
[2:40:57] understanding and using the assumptions that vehicles are over x
[2:41:02] number of years and roads over x number of years
[2:41:04] and all that kind. Of stuff. So if that makes
[2:41:06] sense, what I just said. Thank you, Councilor Brennan. I
[2:41:10] agree. With all that assistant wondering whether the motion that
[2:41:12] you outlined should include specifically that we're looking for the
[2:41:17] inclusion of the capital renovations to the police headquarters, and
[2:41:22] we're also looking for a revised or updated. Debt schedule
[2:41:26] for the 20th. Those need to be included. Start to
[2:41:29] draft a motion for it. I think that would move
[2:41:32] that. By January 20, we receive. A revised.
[2:41:42] Municipal budget from the mayor, which includes the renovations, the
[2:41:46] capital renovations to the police headquarters, and a revised debt
[2:41:50] schedule. Catch up before we go any further. She's typing
[2:41:58] quickly. And we'll start it out. We receive this report
[2:42:04] for information, we receive a report. Councilor Brennan. Just 1
[2:42:08] second. Just. Everything that the deputy mayor said, but then
[2:42:13] specifically that we received by January 20, I'm a revised
[2:42:18] municipal budget from the mayor, which includes the capital renovation,
[2:42:21] the police headquartered project and a revised debt schedule. From
[2:42:28] the director of finance. I just want to let the
[2:42:37] person catch up. Okay. Councilor Derbyshire. Councilor. I just want
[2:42:44] to ask why we're receiving this. For information. Why we're
[2:42:47] just. Not deferring it to get it updated on the
[2:42:51] 20th because at that point, what we're saying is we're
[2:42:54] accepting this. As. Is not what you do when you
[2:42:58] receive it for information as you accept it, it's. Now
[2:43:01] logged in. Whereas if we don't accept it and send
[2:43:03] it back. You're asking for better clarity. Sending it back.
[2:43:07] We have to say we received something to send back.
[2:43:09] I think, like we discussed this afternoon. In my anything
[2:43:12] I've ever read, when we receive it for information, it
[2:43:15] just means they get to buy it. But that's what
[2:43:18] you're now filing, misinformation. We're asking for it to go
[2:43:23] back and be revised so it doesn't start. The 30
[2:43:25] day clock. That's the whole point to it. Wouldn't it?
[2:43:29] Start it if you receive it. That's what I was
[2:43:33] thinking. If you receive it today, it should start the
[2:43:35] clock now. You're. The mayor says he's okay if it
[2:43:37] doesn't start to clock. By then. Get her hands left.
[2:43:40] I wish I knew the process better, councilor. I don't.
[2:43:43] I'm. Just trying to get this meeting wrapped up. And
[2:43:48] a pathway forward. I get it. Whatever. But I think
[2:43:55] anytime that we're talking about documents, I think we have
[2:43:57] to receive them. We usually do that. First receive the
[2:44:02] documents, and then we have our discussions about it. Councilor
[2:44:07] Felkman, did you have a comment before we move? I
[2:44:10] did. So I just want to clarify what's a change
[2:44:17] and what's not a change. So I. Think that. The
[2:44:22] list of projects and stuff that's identified, if we were
[2:44:25] to add or remove any of those to me. That's
[2:44:27] a change. If we're seeking clarification on numbers to me.
[2:44:31] That's not a change and can happen without motion. To
[2:44:35] speed the process up. So if somebody points out a
[2:44:39] glaring error and said, hey, this number is incorrect. It
[2:44:44] should be able to be changed without a motion because.
[2:44:48] It's not changing the budget that's being presented, it's just
[2:44:51] making sure. That the numbers are being correct. Has nothing
[2:44:54] to do with the motion that's just grafted now. Just
[2:44:57] saying moving forward. If we discover. That. The numbers are
[2:45:05] incorrect. Without adding or removing any items. We're not changing
[2:45:10] the budget that's being proposed. We're just making sure the
[2:45:12] information is correct. Okay. I agree with that. So within
[2:45:18] seven days, we have documents that we're going to start
[2:45:22] a 30 day clock. On. And. Amendments are to be
[2:45:28] drafted and sent to the clerk basically as soon as
[2:45:31] possible. We do have a meeting for February 11 scheduled,
[2:45:35] which we can keep. It's probably a good idea to
[2:45:38] keep it, see if we can deal with all the
[2:45:41] amendments. That still leaves us seven days if we need
[2:45:45] a second meeting. If not. We collapse the 30 day
[2:45:50] at that point in time, because we can do that
[2:45:53] and send it directly over to the mayor, which starts
[2:45:56] his phase of the veal. Which he's already commented upon.
[2:46:01] We don't have to keep 30 days, but we've got
[2:46:03] it if we need. To come back for a second
[2:46:05] meeting. Or a third meeting, as the case is. I
[2:46:09] got it. A question of clarification on this amendment. Changing
[2:46:17] numbers. Do I email everybody? Not my amendment. But do
[2:46:22] I say? I say, look, there's a percentage change. Or
[2:46:26] this didn't add up. Or maybe this number isn't right.
[2:46:29] Does that go to all of council, so that we're
[2:46:32] all aware of a number change? Obviously, I would send
[2:46:36] my amendment to the clerk or whatever it lists on
[2:46:39] this name, and then we would deal with the amendments.
[2:46:43] At that meeting. But if we're talking about. Let's say
[2:46:47] you notice the debt schedule just using it right now.
[2:46:50] And the numbers are off. Do I email everyone and
[2:46:52] say, hey, I think the numbers are off? On this.
[2:46:56] Because we're not coming back to meet and meet and
[2:46:58] meet. We're going to just analyze this ourselves and you're
[2:47:01] going to have two more meetings we'd have. Time for
[2:47:03] two more meetings if needed. But two thoughts. Good point.
[2:47:06] Because then at least we all get to see the
[2:47:07] conversation, but we have to be careful that we don't
[2:47:10] engage. In. An unscheduled meeting by responding. As soon as
[2:47:18] we start that email chain now. We're tell Madam Clerk
[2:47:22] I think that's your realm of expertise. You're welcome. Thank
[2:47:28] you. This is all very brand new territory, so. We're
[2:47:36] just trying to navigate. I would definitely encourage you. If
[2:47:40] you do find something of an error, then I would
[2:47:43] encourage you. To contact the directors. I think it would
[2:47:47] be helpful to keep counsel in the loop as long
[2:47:50] as the deputy mayor said to keep it. Not engaging
[2:47:56] like it would be advancing business or a meeting. But
[2:47:58] if you're just pointing out something that you found, I
[2:48:02] would encourage you to include everyone. So everyone is on
[2:48:04] the same. Page. Yeah. Does that make sense? Does that
[2:48:07] help at all? 100%. Is it better if when you
[2:48:12] send your amendments to the clerk. If. There of a
[2:48:22] fashion that she feels needs to be released immediately. She
[2:48:24] could release them out. We don't comment about them. We
[2:48:27] don't get into an email chain. We leave it to
[2:48:32] the clerk. I'm afraid of an email chain getting going
[2:48:39] and they happen quickly and easily. Councilor Kenneth, actually. So
[2:48:45] we have a motion up on the floor. John made
[2:48:47] a motion. Do we have a seconder for that motion?
[2:48:51] Councilor of healthman, any other comment on the motion. Yes.
[2:48:57] It's really on the motion. Uncovering. An addition error to
[2:49:03] me isn't a change to the budget. To me. Saying
[2:49:08] we need to drop that program or drop that. Project
[2:49:12] or add that project to me that's making a change
[2:49:15] to the budget, but correcting. An error. I don't really
[2:49:17] see that as a change. So then, if it's just
[2:49:21] an error that's been noted, And madam Clerk sent that
[2:49:25] all out. Just so you know, councilor Kenneth noted an
[2:49:29] error. It's grammatical or. That everybody knows we all don't
[2:49:34] have to send in the same thing. But what we
[2:49:38] don't want to do is get involved. In an email
[2:49:42] chains because that's not proper. Councilor Brennan and then we're
[2:49:45] going to call this to a vote. Here's a fun
[2:49:47] idea. If we're all going to be grading up, maybe
[2:49:52] we won't be, but let's say a few of us
[2:49:53] write up written amendments that we're sending into the clerk
[2:49:56] and we want other people to know about them when
[2:49:58] we want to avoid email chains and all this sort
[2:50:01] of stuff, and it's all going to be done by
[2:50:02] February 11. There's nothing saying we couldn't have a meeting
[2:50:07] on February the fourth. If you will. Where each of
[2:50:10] us could bring in with us if we wanted to
[2:50:13] a copy of our written amendment and we could just
[2:50:15] say, hey, other members of council, here's three written amendments
[2:50:19] that I have submitted, and I'm just going to let
[2:50:21] you know about them in this meeting. And then we
[2:50:23] could all do that. And if it turns out that
[2:50:26] there were. A total of eleven amendments that were put
[2:50:29] forward by all of us. We could take five minutes.
[2:50:33] And talk about each one. We don't have to make
[2:50:34] a decision, but at least everybody knows that amendments are
[2:50:38] being proposed before we get to another meeting. I think
[2:50:42] we do best when we sit down and meet with
[2:50:45] each other physically. And if we have. A form that
[2:50:49] we have to submit. Electronically to the clerk. Well. It
[2:50:54] doesn't take an extra effort to maybe just print it
[2:50:56] out at home or have it on your device and
[2:50:59] come to a meeting. And just, even though it's already
[2:51:01] been submitted. Each of us takes turns saying, here's an
[2:51:04] amendment that I submitted. Does anybody want to talk about
[2:51:08] it for five minutes. We're not looking about passing it
[2:51:11] or making a motion, but let's just talk to each
[2:51:14] other. About the amendments that we put in and have
[2:51:16] that pre discussion before we get to a February 11
[2:51:19] meeting when they're all on the table and we have
[2:51:21] to make decisions. So I think we do best when
[2:51:24] we sit and talk to each other, and I have
[2:51:26] no objection to a meeting where we'd all sit down
[2:51:29] and say, I might come in here. And say I
[2:51:32] made no amendments. And maybe Steve's made two and he
[2:51:35] reads them out and bose made five or one. Or
[2:51:38] none. And that way everybody knows that other people have
[2:51:43] made amendments and we have an opportunity to discuss them,
[2:51:46] maybe not decide them that night. And then everybody goes
[2:51:49] home and sleeps on it for a week. And then
[2:51:51] we come to a February 11 meeting where the amendments
[2:51:53] come up for votes. I just think that way we
[2:51:57] avoid the whole email chain. It humanizes the process. So
[2:52:04] hold that thought for a moment. There's a motion on
[2:52:06] the floor. About receiving it for information. And then. Referring
[2:52:14] it back to the mayor for revision. With the inclusion.
[2:52:21] Of the police annex. And. The depth. Revised debt schedule.
[2:52:31] Revised debt schedule. That's good. Looking for a debt schedule.
[2:52:37] So on that motion. Seconded motion. All in favor? Opposed.
[2:52:42] Did you vote in favor of it? Is abstain from
[2:52:48] it. That carries. Okay, Mr. Mayor, and then we'll deal
[2:52:52] with when the next meeting is going to be. Just
[2:52:59] two comments. I'm glad everybody was looking that way, not
[2:53:03] looking here because I was smiling, because I want to
[2:53:06] tell the council why? We're not unusual. All the readings
[2:53:12] that I have done on the strong mayor powers and
[2:53:14] the presentation to council. Has elicited the same conversation, so
[2:53:20] I would suggest. I know for a fact. Cambridge, their
[2:53:24] council. There was frustration with the process. I believe it
[2:53:27] was St. Mary, so we're not unusual. Deputy mayor. Every
[2:53:32] council has wrestled with this in using the strong mayor
[2:53:35] powers. And secondly, I'm glad to hear the discussion about
[2:53:39] the debt and the debt policy, because that was kind
[2:53:42] of my focus moving forward. Is. Everybody's mentioned it. Where
[2:53:46] are we at with our debt and how are we
[2:53:48] going? To use it moving forward. So again, smiling, because
[2:53:51] I'm glad to hear all the discussion. About debt. So
[2:53:55] that's it. Chair. Thank you. Yeah. It's not a good
[2:54:00] situation trying to build the process while we're in the
[2:54:03] process, but thank you. Sorry. I was going to say
[2:54:05] it's not fun building the process. While we're in the
[2:54:07] process. On this, but we got through it. So, next
[2:54:12] meeting? When do you want the next meeting to be?
[2:54:16] The third. You want? The 3 February. What day of
[2:54:20] the week is that? Tuesday. A Tuesday. Tuesday the 3.
[2:54:24] February at 430. No. Tuesday doesn't work for councilor Pammer.
[2:54:31] No, the third. I have something booked, but I guess
[2:54:36] I could try to change it. I'm the only one.
[2:54:40] How about Wednesday the 28th? There's one tentatively booked by
[2:54:45] staff for Wednesday the 28 or 30. Councilor Temple can't
[2:54:51] make Wednesdays. Can we not just change the strategic priority?
[2:54:58] One strategic priority sets. It starts at what time? Do
[2:55:07] you want to meet? At. 430 to do the budget.
[2:55:16] 430 for a 30 minutes. Budget discussion prior to starting
[2:55:22] strategic priorities. You won't get it done. 30 minutes. 30
[2:55:25] minutes. It's just to say what amendments you're thinking about
[2:55:30] bringing forward. And then we meet on the 11th. To
[2:55:37] amered up. It still gives you seven days if you
[2:55:40] wanted another one on the 20th. We could start at
[2:55:42] 430 and go till. No, we can't. Stretch it, like
[2:55:48] do it all in one day rather than. Do it
[2:55:52] twice. We're going to begin then on Monday. The 26
[2:55:59] January at 430. For a continuation of the budget process.
[2:56:04] Bring your amendments. We're good at that. Sorry. Clarification. Do
[2:56:08] we bring our amendments or do we. Submit them ahead
[2:56:10] of time. Well, submit them ahead of time, but bring
[2:56:13] your amendments to the meeting. To discuss with everybody else
[2:56:16] to tell everybody else what your amendments are. Instead of
[2:56:21] circulating them outside of council, I was going to ask.
[2:56:26] Put on an agenda then. Not until the February 11.
[2:56:30] February the 11th. Are we live? On the 26th? Yeah.
[2:56:38] What we like. Just for clarification, all the amendments are
[2:56:46] going to be on the agenda. You can bring other
[2:56:49] amendments later. We'll have a big discussion meeting on the
[2:56:52] 11th. But if you want to. But for that meeting,
[2:56:56] we have to have them submitted early because we can't
[2:56:59] discuss anything that's not on the agenda. My understanding from
[2:57:03] councilor Brennan was not to just do a big discussion
[2:57:06] about him, but to. Tell everybody. Here's what I'm thinking
[2:57:10] of bringing forward. You can put your mind to it.
[2:57:12] Go home, take a look. At what it is councilor
[2:57:17] Brennan has commented on. Come back in on the 11th
[2:57:20] and be prepared. To decide whether you want to move
[2:57:24] that motion forward or not that amendment forward. And I
[2:57:27] guess my point is, by council rules, unless it's on
[2:57:29] the agenda, we can't talk. About it, right? That's just
[2:57:32] what I'm getting for. Is there a deadline to submit
[2:57:34] amendments for that meeting, or can we bring them in
[2:57:37] and not let anybody know except the clerk, like, say,
[2:57:39] on the Friday over the weekend before that meeting and
[2:57:41] still discuss them, I think. You can bring those ones
[2:57:43] in any time. I think you can just walk in
[2:57:46] on that meeting. On the 26th. You can walk in
[2:57:48] with your amendment in your back pocket if you want.
[2:57:52] Submit it five days prior to the 11th to get
[2:57:54] it on the agenda, and that's when council is going
[2:57:57] to do their discussion, their deep dive on it and
[2:57:59] hopefully make resolution. By vote and motion to the mayor.
[2:58:06] Councilor pellman. Technically, would that not be a workshop? Not
[2:58:13] a complete. Is that a workshop?
[2:58:23] Council meeting. It'll be the same as special meeting, same
[2:58:26] as. Just be a short special meeting. No motions be
[2:58:32] that's a preparatory meeting to the 11th. Meeting is all
[2:58:35] it is. Okay, motion to adjourn council. She said we
[2:58:42] can't do that yet. No. There isn't a bylaw. I'm
[2:58:48] looking for a motion. That bylaw number 426 receive 1st,
[2:58:53] 2nd, third and final reading. What is that? Just a.
[2:58:57] Bylaw to approve proceedings of the meeting. Oh, I see.
[2:59:02] It says that underneath there a bylaw to confirm the
[2:59:04] proceedings at the special. Council meeting of the corporation Municipality
[2:59:06] of Strathwide cared on somebody to make a motion councilor.
[2:59:10] Kenneth, councilor Hippo. Thank you. All in favor? Path carries.
[2:59:17] Motion to adjourn. Councilor Hippo, Councilor Kenneth, all in favor?
[2:59:21] We stand adjourned 728, thank you. Good job, Mike.