1
00:00:03,440 --> 00:00:11,320
Welcome to the planning board. We're having the planning board meeting of June 29th, and we're going to do the pledge of allegiance first.

2
00:00:35,900 --> 00:00:41,140
Actually 10, colon 4-10, adequate notice of this meeting has been provided to the publications

3
00:00:41,740 --> 00:00:45,940
of record and has been posted here in City Hall for the benefit of the interested public.

4
00:00:46,480 --> 00:00:51,360
This meeting is being live streamed to the city's YouTube page and also broadcast on summits

5
00:00:51,360 --> 00:00:55,980
government channel which is Comcast Channel 34 and Verizon Channel 30.

6
00:00:56,540 --> 00:01:00,740
Any hearings on applications for development in this meeting are quasi-judicial proceedings.

7
00:01:01,420 --> 00:01:05,280
Any questions or comments must be limited to the issues that are relevant to what the board

8
00:01:05,280 --> 00:01:08,000
Court may legally consider in reaching a decision and

9
00:01:08,000 --> 00:01:12,120
decorum appropriate to a judicial hearing must be maintained at all times.

10
00:01:12,680 --> 00:01:17,640
Please note that fire exits are to my right, your left, and at the back of the room where you entered.

11
00:01:18,100 --> 00:01:20,880
The city has a listening system to assist the hearing impaired.

12
00:01:21,260 --> 00:01:24,560
If anyone needs hearing assistance, please obtain the necessary equipment.

13
00:01:24,880 --> 00:01:27,760
Here at the dais and return it immediately after our meeting.

14
00:01:28,440 --> 00:01:29,280
Back to you, Madam Chair.

15
00:01:29,500 --> 00:01:30,160
Thank you.

16
00:01:30,160 --> 00:01:33,380
You will need to do the roll call, Mr. Delmoso.

17
00:01:33,540 --> 00:01:34,340
Thank you.

18
00:01:36,400 --> 00:01:37,540
Chair Wilson Alvarez.

19
00:01:37,680 --> 00:01:37,940
Here.

20
00:01:38,540 --> 00:01:39,540
Vice Chair Hamlet.

21
00:01:39,840 --> 00:01:40,020
Here.

22
00:01:40,400 --> 00:01:40,840
Ms. Vellan.

23
00:01:41,220 --> 00:01:41,400
Yes.

24
00:01:42,140 --> 00:01:45,120
Councilmember Christopher Lee is expected but not present.

25
00:01:45,700 --> 00:01:46,200
I am here.

26
00:01:48,360 --> 00:01:49,040
Mr. Fellman.

27
00:01:49,380 --> 00:01:49,540
Here.

28
00:01:50,000 --> 00:01:50,540
Mr. Morrison.

29
00:01:50,880 --> 00:01:51,040
Here.

30
00:01:51,560 --> 00:01:52,960
Mr. Sala is excused.

31
00:01:53,080 --> 00:01:54,620
Mr. Stern is excused.

32
00:01:54,800 --> 00:01:55,440
Mr. Staunton.

33
00:01:55,760 --> 00:01:55,920
Here.

34
00:01:56,300 --> 00:01:56,860
Mr. Golden.

35
00:01:57,340 --> 00:01:57,520
Here.

36
00:01:57,740 --> 00:01:58,260
We have a quorum.

37
00:01:58,340 --> 00:01:58,860
We may proceed.

38
00:01:59,260 --> 00:02:00,120
Thank you so much.

39
00:02:00,120 --> 00:02:06,280
Okay, so our first here's Councilman, welcome.

40
00:02:07,360 --> 00:02:12,460
Our first item on the agenda is the master plan re-examination discussion.

41
00:02:12,580 --> 00:02:16,540
We're just going to talk about the schedule because we've discussed this over and over and

42
00:02:16,540 --> 00:02:19,160
we know we're going to be doing this and take away general.

43
00:02:19,580 --> 00:02:20,960
Okay, very simply.

44
00:02:21,140 --> 00:02:28,240
And you know, we're doing a very quick re-examination report to make sure we meet our early November deadline.

45
00:02:28,240 --> 00:02:36,360
What we intend to do is our submitting documents to you on probably three of the five questions

46
00:02:36,360 --> 00:02:46,240
that the statute asks, that will be done probably in early August, or maybe late July,

47
00:02:46,760 --> 00:02:49,700
because it depends on when Tom's going on vacation.

48
00:02:50,800 --> 00:02:57,320
And we would like to see, well, on the way from most of the month of August, and Tom will

49
00:02:57,320 --> 00:03:04,660
finish it up. When I come back close to Labor Day, I will then review it and try to get

50
00:03:04,660 --> 00:03:10,860
that final draft to you in early September for a late September hearing on the document.

51
00:03:11,480 --> 00:03:17,520
If we miss by one meeting, then we would have our hearing in early October, which still

52
00:03:17,520 --> 00:03:24,220
gets us well in advance of the time deadline. And then after that, we will presumably immediately

53
00:03:24,220 --> 00:03:29,000
at least start on the comprehensive master plan that we had discussed previously.

54
00:03:29,980 --> 00:03:31,340
Yep, thank you very much.

55
00:03:31,900 --> 00:03:32,420
You're welcome.

56
00:03:33,000 --> 00:03:41,320
The next item on our agenda is discussion of DRO edits, typically this is based on feedback

57
00:03:41,320 --> 00:03:47,500
that we get from users of the DRO and also from applicants that we get and applications

58
00:03:47,500 --> 00:03:48,060
that we get.

59
00:03:48,060 --> 00:03:56,760
And this is something that we had looked at last fall, I believe it was, and we're coming back to it.

60
00:03:56,840 --> 00:04:00,980
There's nothing really that extraordinary in here we've edited it before.

61
00:04:01,440 --> 00:04:07,680
But I'd like to go over some of those suggested edits mainly for clarity.

62
00:04:08,380 --> 00:04:15,720
And if anybody has any edits that they'd like to make or suggest, we can go through each item.

63
00:04:16,280 --> 00:04:18,260
Just so the public knows what's in here.

64
00:04:19,300 --> 00:04:25,040
The first one, did you want me to do this?

65
00:04:26,260 --> 00:04:27,380
I think we can discuss.

66
00:04:27,640 --> 00:04:29,120
We can share that.

67
00:04:29,860 --> 00:04:30,520
Very good, very good.

68
00:04:31,100 --> 00:04:40,000
So the first item that's in here is there's all the

69
00:04:40,000 --> 00:04:43,320
warehouse clauses and I think we should add a warehouse other

70
00:04:43,320 --> 00:04:47,840
There are edits for clarity as described below because I don't think we had actually all

71
00:04:47,840 --> 00:04:49,120
of them in the whereas clauses.

72
00:04:51,980 --> 00:04:57,800
It's on the second page, at least the way mine printed out, so it depends on the font

73
00:04:57,800 --> 00:04:58,340
you used.

74
00:04:58,500 --> 00:05:05,760
But it's 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12.

75
00:05:06,920 --> 00:05:12,260
After that I would just add, after the 12th whereas I would add other edits for clarity

76
00:05:12,260 --> 00:05:18,200
as described below, because there are not every single one is mentioned in the warehouse.

77
00:05:18,620 --> 00:05:20,700
That's kind of catch all, if that's okay.

78
00:05:24,650 --> 00:05:27,650
And then I don't want to just run the show.

79
00:05:27,850 --> 00:05:32,030
I mean, does anybody else want to start with edits before I get into it, or do you want

80
00:05:32,030 --> 00:05:33,490
me to just take the lead?

81
00:05:34,890 --> 00:05:44,390
Madam Chair, I do have some comments or relate to the board secretary from Mr. Stern.

82
00:05:44,390 --> 00:05:44,870
Yeah.

83
00:05:45,330 --> 00:05:59,530
Addressing some minor edits that he's captured here on the section for accessory structures and uses, a bullet point under the square footage of B2, I believe.

84
00:05:59,950 --> 00:06:00,130
Yeah.

85
00:06:00,670 --> 00:06:02,970
It's 35-9-8B2.

86
00:06:03,610 --> 00:06:04,550
Yeah, absolutely.

87
00:06:05,030 --> 00:06:08,210
So has anybody found that accessory structures?

88
00:06:08,210 --> 00:06:08,690
Okay.

89
00:06:09,530 --> 00:06:16,550
It states the 576-square-foot by 24-foot cap limits floor area and length, but states no height limit.

90
00:06:17,210 --> 00:06:17,330
Right.

91
00:06:17,390 --> 00:06:24,830
Be good to confirm the height, but it is governed elsewhere under section 35-9.11.

92
00:06:25,630 --> 00:06:38,150
My recollection, and we'll have to check, is that accessory structures aren't supposed to, I think we changed it from 15 feet to 17 feet because the roof pitches on garages were so flat and didn't really often weren't compatible with their own

93
00:06:38,150 --> 00:06:40,630
building, for example, a very attenuated queen

94
00:06:40,630 --> 00:06:42,470
and with steep roofed pitches would then

95
00:06:42,470 --> 00:06:44,890
have a really flat roofed garage.

96
00:06:45,770 --> 00:06:48,370
So I think we extended it to 17 or 18.

97
00:06:48,370 --> 00:06:49,390
I'm not sure.

98
00:06:50,410 --> 00:06:55,970
But I think he's right that we should, if it's not covered,

99
00:06:55,970 --> 00:06:59,350
and we could repeat it here, you know, what the height is.

100
00:07:00,150 --> 00:07:00,890
Oh, we can.

101
00:07:01,050 --> 00:07:02,890
We just have to make sure we get the same number.

102
00:07:03,090 --> 00:07:03,230
Yes.

103
00:07:03,230 --> 00:07:04,330
I think it was 18.

104
00:07:04,670 --> 00:07:04,990
18.

105
00:07:05,270 --> 00:07:05,410
OK.

106
00:07:05,710 --> 00:07:06,690
So we're going to add.

107
00:07:06,790 --> 00:07:07,610
Let's look at it.

108
00:07:07,610 --> 00:07:09,970
at the height there just to reiterate.

109
00:07:10,250 --> 00:07:11,090
Okay, very good.

110
00:07:11,270 --> 00:07:12,070
That was my note as well.

111
00:07:17,500 --> 00:07:18,080
Ken.

112
00:07:18,860 --> 00:07:19,440
Ken.

113
00:07:20,060 --> 00:07:21,060
Accessory structures.

114
00:07:21,260 --> 00:07:22,840
Accessory structures have a problem.

115
00:07:23,180 --> 00:07:23,500
Yes.

116
00:07:24,440 --> 00:07:25,020
Yes.

117
00:07:25,680 --> 00:07:27,400
That's not all day typical.

118
00:07:28,560 --> 00:07:30,760
I know people with swimming pools oftentimes

119
00:07:30,760 --> 00:07:33,180
their accessory structures will have a bathroom.

120
00:07:33,800 --> 00:07:36,280
They don't want people drooping through the house or wet.

121
00:07:38,060 --> 00:07:40,600
Generally, I don't believe on an accessory structure

122
00:07:40,600 --> 00:07:47,020
like detached garage, it wouldn't generally be permitted to have functioning electrical

123
00:07:47,020 --> 00:07:52,580
or plumbing to prevent a secondary dwelling unit being created there.

124
00:07:53,220 --> 00:07:57,320
Yeah, typically in our zoning enforcement it wouldn't be permitted.

125
00:07:57,680 --> 00:08:03,820
We've seen, well I know that the office has seen applications in the past where some applicants

126
00:08:03,820 --> 00:08:11,400
would propose an accessory structure having either heating, cooling, plumbing, or functioning

127
00:08:11,400 --> 00:08:16,380
kitchen. And generally, we request that they seek variance relief for that kind of stuff.

128
00:08:16,640 --> 00:08:18,140
So I don't think it would be permitted by.

129
00:08:18,480 --> 00:08:23,760
Okay. I know a number of what I'll call up scale municipalities will allow a bathroom

130
00:08:24,160 --> 00:08:29,620
by specifically prohibit the things that you just mentioned, but they do permit. That's

131
00:08:29,620 --> 00:08:32,520
up to you if you want to provide for it that way.

132
00:08:32,520 --> 00:08:35,440
or yeah, I think that we need to do a little, you know,

133
00:08:35,540 --> 00:08:37,140
make sure that we understand what's allowed now

134
00:08:37,140 --> 00:08:38,800
and what we want to have allowed.

135
00:08:39,580 --> 00:08:42,360
Yeah, no, I remember somebody showing me their accessory

136
00:08:42,360 --> 00:08:43,840
structure and saying that it was not.

137
00:08:44,100 --> 00:08:46,280
And I don't remember off the top of my head

138
00:08:46,280 --> 00:08:52,020
whether it was, you might, or yeah.

139
00:08:52,340 --> 00:08:57,360
So we'll, let's look into that for the next round.

140
00:09:00,040 --> 00:09:02,300
I'm pretty sure that, I'm not sure we could say.

141
00:09:02,440 --> 00:09:04,380
I mean, I went through somebody's house

142
00:09:04,380 --> 00:09:09,820
where they weren't allowed to put it in. So, accessory structure. So, I don't know. We'll

143
00:09:09,820 --> 00:09:17,520
have to check. Deiro, next round. There's always something for the next round.

144
00:09:23,790 --> 00:09:27,530
All right. So, moving on.

145
00:09:36,720 --> 00:09:39,720
I had a question about the existing air conditioning units.

146
00:09:48,020 --> 00:09:48,540
I

147
00:09:48,540 --> 00:09:51,680
The locating, I

148
00:09:54,520 --> 00:09:57,440
just want to make sure I've got this right, the air conditioning units

149
00:09:57,440 --> 00:10:00,400
being replaced in kind should only be in residential zones.

150
00:10:00,960 --> 00:10:05,860
And I don't think that we have a change to the commercial, so it shouldn't be referenced

151
00:10:06,380 --> 00:10:07,040
in here.

152
00:10:07,420 --> 00:10:12,880
As being changed in the commercial and the residential zones, it should just be in residential

153
00:10:12,880 --> 00:10:13,220
zones.

154
00:10:13,220 --> 00:10:16,540
We're allowing that because we still want the reviews for the commercial zones because it

155
00:10:16,540 --> 00:10:18,520
these so much more impactful potentially.

156
00:10:23,820 --> 00:10:26,840
So, I have

157
00:10:34,770 --> 00:10:42,970
a comment on the rooftop amenities going back to my noise ordinance obsession right

158
00:10:42,970 --> 00:10:43,170
now.

159
00:10:43,310 --> 00:10:43,850
Which section?

160
00:10:44,610 --> 00:10:46,310
Are we going in any order right now?

161
00:10:47,150 --> 00:10:55,900
I'm just on page seven, so the one thing I noticed about being this was, oh, here it

162
00:10:55,900 --> 00:10:56,080
is.

163
00:10:57,860 --> 00:11:02,920
I mean, if I'm on Maple Street and I know some of my friends who live on Maple Street

164
00:11:02,920 --> 00:11:12,840
and Elk's has, I haven't heard too many complaints, but 4 p.m. to 10 p.m. live, which I think is

165
00:11:12,840 --> 00:11:19,720
reasonable, Monday through Friday, 12 p.m. to 12 a.m. or by the close of business. I think

166
00:11:21,020 --> 00:11:25,560
close of business is a little bit, I mean, I think the neighbors there are probably going

167
00:11:25,560 --> 00:11:34,900
be a little irritated if they're playing music until 12 a.m., you know, and I also think

168
00:11:34,900 --> 00:11:39,060
there's not really, it says enforcement, but there's really not a mechanism, right?

169
00:11:39,760 --> 00:11:46,200
So because for so many people in the audience that are watching, right, the police don't

170
00:11:46,200 --> 00:11:47,480
have a desk full meter.

171
00:11:48,160 --> 00:11:50,740
So you'd have to literally coordinate with the board of health that night.

172
00:11:50,740 --> 00:11:55,240
So there's no enforcement that you can do, and what are people supposed to do?

173
00:11:55,980 --> 00:11:56,580
Who are they called?

174
00:11:57,400 --> 00:11:58,300
They just make it complaint?

175
00:11:59,080 --> 00:12:03,280
All right, we're writing stuff but we're not really able to force it.

176
00:12:03,620 --> 00:12:09,820
So years ago, 15 years ago when I was on board, I re-wrote the noise and we removed the

177
00:12:09,820 --> 00:12:13,760
decibel requirement because there was no way an active measure that we instead replaced

178
00:12:13,760 --> 00:12:19,420
it with certain types of noises, you know, mechanical equipment, you know, or a generator

179
00:12:19,420 --> 00:12:25,180
or abstract, etc., alarm systems, later music, because you're right, nobody in some

180
00:12:25,180 --> 00:12:28,880
has the equipment to measure it. So is there for unenforceable?

181
00:12:29,580 --> 00:12:36,980
Right. But if they're playing music, past 12, according to this, you know, choice 12

182
00:12:36,980 --> 00:12:44,040
at 12 a.m., then they're in non-compliance. Right. But do we, I circled 12, because my

183
00:12:44,040 --> 00:12:47,200
My May recollection was when we did approve the Alcs, it was 11.

184
00:12:48,520 --> 00:12:53,660
So whether 12 is what the norm is in other municipalities, that might be why this is 12.

185
00:12:54,240 --> 00:13:01,160
But if the summit wants to make it 11, because we have people who have residences in neighboring buildings,

186
00:13:02,020 --> 00:13:07,980
and I vaguely recall that when we did approve the rooftop deck, it was 11.

187
00:13:09,740 --> 00:13:11,700
And so that's why I circled it also.

188
00:13:11,700 --> 00:13:14,340
So any recommendations, Joe, from what you see in other municipalities?

189
00:13:15,440 --> 00:13:21,280
Some municipalities who specifically prohibit amplified music, especially some do it after

190
00:13:21,280 --> 00:13:23,580
a certain time, like 10 o'clock.

191
00:13:23,640 --> 00:13:24,300
So like with a speaker?

192
00:13:24,880 --> 00:13:25,080
Yes.

193
00:13:25,480 --> 00:13:25,660
Okay.

194
00:13:26,500 --> 00:13:28,600
So it could be like a guitarist without it.

195
00:13:28,700 --> 00:13:28,880
Yeah.

196
00:13:29,140 --> 00:13:29,920
Something quiet.

197
00:13:30,800 --> 00:13:31,500
That's an interesting.

198
00:13:32,100 --> 00:13:32,200
Yeah.

199
00:13:32,560 --> 00:13:35,080
One, if I may, from a legal perspective.

200
00:13:35,360 --> 00:13:38,220
One thing, one or two things to keep in mind.

201
00:13:38,220 --> 00:13:45,200
And any noise ordinance in order for it to be enforceable must

202
00:13:45,200 --> 00:13:52,060
comport with DEPs, model ordinances, and which do have

203
00:13:52,060 --> 00:13:59,560
decibel levels, 50 DBA at nighttime, 65 DBA during the day time

204
00:13:59,560 --> 00:14:02,440
being the maximums at the perimeter, if I recall correctly,

205
00:14:03,200 --> 00:14:05,960
of the lot, the subject lot.

206
00:14:05,960 --> 00:14:14,120
But so we certainly need to double check to make sure ours is, that's the general noise

207
00:14:14,120 --> 00:14:14,400
ordinance.

208
00:14:14,600 --> 00:14:18,980
You could have other limitations with respect to certain activities and hours, etc.

209
00:14:20,620 --> 00:14:26,900
But the noise ordinance itself has to come forward with DEP and be approved by DEP in order

210
00:14:26,900 --> 00:14:27,720
to be enforceable.

211
00:14:27,720 --> 00:14:31,080
NJAC-7 calling 29 is the reg.

212
00:14:32,540 --> 00:14:35,280
Secondly, if I recall correctly, in Joe Helmix,

213
00:14:35,380 --> 00:14:36,460
I used to have this memorized.

214
00:14:39,260 --> 00:14:42,500
The difference between the nighttime and daytime

215
00:14:43,740 --> 00:14:49,720
12-hour period, I believe, is it 10 p.m. to 6 a.m.

216
00:14:50,280 --> 00:14:56,760
Is the 50 DBA, the lower noise threshold

217
00:14:56,760 --> 00:14:59,840
for the evening as opposed to

218
00:15:00,000 --> 00:15:27,420
6 a.m. to 10 p.m. being the higher 65 d.b.a. threshold of during the day. Not that you have to tie everything to the 10 p.m. timeframe. I'm just pointing that out for context. So Steve, the one thing I noticed was 99% sure our ordinance is based off of NJ D.p. But the one thing Joe and I were talking about is how to enforce the D.b.c.

219
00:15:27,420 --> 00:15:32,260
the DBC and that no, no, there's DBA, but then there's DBC.

220
00:15:32,620 --> 00:15:39,660
So the DBC is also modeled after the NJDEP, and so I think it's important as we talk about the data centers.

221
00:15:40,220 --> 00:15:41,040
I think it's my version.

222
00:15:41,340 --> 00:15:41,900
It's the vibration.

223
00:15:42,200 --> 00:15:42,960
Oh, okay, nothing.

224
00:15:43,820 --> 00:15:48,900
Sorry, it's like continuous airborne sound, I believe it is.

225
00:15:49,000 --> 00:15:49,160
One second.

226
00:15:50,160 --> 00:15:52,420
Continuous airborne sound, so it's the C-weighting.

227
00:15:52,420 --> 00:15:57,200
The DVC is the sound level as measured using the C-weighting network with a sound level meeting.

228
00:15:57,780 --> 00:16:01,200
The C-weighting network is more sensitive to low frequencies than the A.

229
00:16:01,560 --> 00:16:06,180
So we're going to talk about this later, but now that the public is talking about the data centers,

230
00:16:06,240 --> 00:16:10,940
I think that we should think about putting the DVC recommend that to the council.

231
00:16:11,720 --> 00:16:17,900
And then for the newly, well, for the data center ordinance, also for

232
00:16:17,900 --> 00:16:28,700
just in general, both of the prod zones, because if the DEP is recognizing that the C already had, we can already measure it.

233
00:16:29,280 --> 00:16:34,600
I'm sure there's actually a sound group at the DEP, we should probably just call them, they're great.

234
00:16:35,300 --> 00:16:40,440
But I think we should engage them and talk about that because now that the public's aware of that low frequency humming,

235
00:16:40,500 --> 00:16:47,460
I think it's appropriate to recommend to Dan and council that we can potentially change that door's ordinance.

236
00:16:47,460 --> 00:16:49,140
And at the same time?

237
00:16:52,620 --> 00:16:52,860
Yeah.

238
00:16:53,060 --> 00:16:53,820
I was just going to add that.

239
00:16:54,100 --> 00:16:55,720
That exact question.

240
00:16:56,120 --> 00:16:58,660
And if anyone joins us, I don't know.

241
00:16:59,080 --> 00:16:59,480
Mechanisms.

242
00:16:59,640 --> 00:16:59,820
Yeah.

243
00:16:59,860 --> 00:17:00,940
Does the health officer help?

244
00:17:01,640 --> 00:17:02,860
It's usually the health officer, right?

245
00:17:03,120 --> 00:17:03,260
Yeah.

246
00:17:03,580 --> 00:17:03,980
It helps.

247
00:17:04,020 --> 00:17:06,820
I was a lot easier for the people that are already on the ground

248
00:17:06,820 --> 00:17:08,780
or in the town.

249
00:17:09,340 --> 00:17:12,160
I think the first step is just find out the closest one.

250
00:17:13,220 --> 00:17:16,800
But again, I don't think the actual, the regular meter is not

251
00:17:16,800 --> 00:17:18,280
going to catch the sea.

252
00:17:18,780 --> 00:17:19,280
That is correct.

253
00:17:19,280 --> 00:17:26,040
So the irony is we have a noise ordinance and we could have a DVC, you know,

254
00:17:26,040 --> 00:17:31,780
addition to our ordinance and have no wage. But the DEP requires us to do so.

255
00:17:31,780 --> 00:17:37,780
So I just don't know the process by which we end up, the process by which we ask the

256
00:17:37,780 --> 00:17:45,820
council to buy a meter. That's an enforcement. It's a recommendation, especially if we have it in our

257
00:17:45,820 --> 00:17:47,560
DROs and we can make a recommendation.

258
00:17:47,940 --> 00:17:51,660
Why don't we also just ask Joe to make a reach out to the sound team?

259
00:17:52,080 --> 00:17:54,620
Yeah, Joe, how do other municipalities handle this?

260
00:17:55,080 --> 00:17:58,400
All right, I don't want to burden the police with being part of an anti-state.

261
00:17:58,560 --> 00:18:01,160
I want to have it, you know, following established norms here.

262
00:18:01,660 --> 00:18:06,480
Some towns will bring in an expert and noise expert and deal with it that way.

263
00:18:06,900 --> 00:18:10,140
Yeah, but I can make a suggestion.

264
00:18:10,520 --> 00:18:14,640
Yeah, like overlook is done that overlook brings in the noise expert, you know.

265
00:18:14,640 --> 00:18:20,800
I mean, you could have issues with a police or call to patrol some of these party next door.

266
00:18:21,080 --> 00:18:24,340
I don't know, it could be, they could have other repercussions.

267
00:18:24,940 --> 00:18:26,100
What was your recommendation, Joe?

268
00:18:27,020 --> 00:18:32,420
You know, I know we want to get this DRO over to the governing body for adoption quickly.

269
00:18:33,360 --> 00:18:36,300
We're doing the re-examination report right now.

270
00:18:36,700 --> 00:18:43,700
We could add this as a thing to look into and then make a recommendation to the governing body through the REX.

271
00:18:53,040 --> 00:19:07,560
If someone goes for a variance, if somebody goes for a variance, for a roofed up door, and the variance is given stipulating no music after six o'clock. That trumps this, right?

272
00:19:07,560 --> 00:19:13,820
Yeah, if it's an application for a hearing that he would.

273
00:19:13,820 --> 00:19:18,280
The help application had a time limit attached.

274
00:19:18,660 --> 00:19:22,460
Because it goes and that would go with the property whoever owns that building, that

275
00:19:23,880 --> 00:19:25,280
restriction would go with the property.

276
00:19:25,320 --> 00:19:33,840
There's a land use board approval and that's a condition of the approval that runs with the approval which grants with the land.

277
00:19:35,180 --> 00:19:37,800
So, Dan, I'd like to just make a quick comment.

278
00:19:38,100 --> 00:19:39,880
We're not trying to enforce a nanny state.

279
00:19:40,120 --> 00:19:43,760
There are neighbors at overlook and at BMS that have been dealing with something that you

280
00:19:43,760 --> 00:19:44,620
and I can't even hear.

281
00:19:45,180 --> 00:19:50,260
A police officer is not going to, there's no nanny state, there's, what our goal is, let me

282
00:19:50,260 --> 00:19:50,520
finish.

283
00:19:51,040 --> 00:19:56,680
What our goal is, is to address the neighbors down in the prod zone and near overlook that

284
00:19:56,680 --> 00:19:58,740
hear this low humming sea volume.

285
00:19:59,260 --> 00:20:02,940
So as, and I understand we're coming from Susan, maybe we need a meter, maybe we don't, but

286
00:20:02,940 --> 00:20:05,000
But I want everybody to understand the point.

287
00:20:05,460 --> 00:20:12,280
The point is to somehow figure out a way to protect these neighbors from the sea level

288
00:20:12,280 --> 00:20:12,620
noise.

289
00:20:13,340 --> 00:20:16,960
There's no nanny state that you can barely hear it unless you're down there.

290
00:20:17,680 --> 00:20:18,720
So I just want to make sure we're-

291
00:20:18,720 --> 00:20:19,900
My understanding is more of a vibrant-

292
00:20:19,900 --> 00:20:20,820
Yeah, it's a good vibration.

293
00:20:20,960 --> 00:20:23,820
Well, if I may respond, sorry, I've been interrupt.

294
00:20:25,100 --> 00:20:26,740
Dealia, I acknowledge that issue.

295
00:20:26,740 --> 00:20:32,980
I don't want to cause unintended consequences of fights between neighbors of a house

296
00:20:32,980 --> 00:20:40,280
party who knows right no, but if the police have a decibel meter it could be used you know

297
00:20:40,280 --> 00:20:40,900
for the purposes.

298
00:20:41,120 --> 00:20:43,160
So I just want to be clear that we're not creating an attempt on this.

299
00:20:43,160 --> 00:20:48,740
But we can have a further discusion about this in our reacts process and let's get back

300
00:20:48,740 --> 00:20:49,120
to the deer.

301
00:20:49,340 --> 00:20:49,760
Are we good?

302
00:20:49,840 --> 00:20:54,760
We can talk about the neighbors who are jackhammering up on mountain for months and their

303
00:20:54,760 --> 00:21:01,340
families are being tortured like that. This would be a great way to have an easy access to a meter that maybe we would have had.

304
00:21:01,740 --> 00:21:06,940
So I do want to. I can raise the question. If I can.

305
00:21:07,460 --> 00:21:09,560
That's an enforcement issue. Okay.

306
00:21:09,720 --> 00:21:20,740
Madam Chair, I can raise the question. So in dealing with sound management and future developments. Have you seen any kind of regulations or design regulations?

307
00:21:20,740 --> 00:21:26,780
Let's say there's a new intense use put into town, or something that can help mitigate.

308
00:21:27,920 --> 00:21:30,080
We're talking about a couple different things.

309
00:21:30,400 --> 00:21:37,060
Construction is one issue, and construction, I don't want to say to get the complete pass.

310
00:21:37,920 --> 00:21:41,120
But in terms of the noise it generates, it does get a pass.

311
00:21:41,480 --> 00:21:46,440
Your entitle to limit the hours of operation, they can't start before a certain time,

312
00:21:46,580 --> 00:21:47,980
they have to end by a certain time.

313
00:21:47,980 --> 00:21:51,140
But in terms of the noise-during construction,

314
00:21:51,860 --> 00:21:54,760
that typically is not regulated.

315
00:21:56,860 --> 00:21:59,940
It's a kind of noise issue that during your first

316
00:21:59,940 --> 00:22:02,200
product there was something that can be regulated.

317
00:22:02,960 --> 00:22:06,500
That's why I said, let me do some analysis.

318
00:22:06,960 --> 00:22:09,880
It's part of the REX, so there's some information

319
00:22:09,880 --> 00:22:13,560
before you, so we can all discuss it with some background

320
00:22:13,560 --> 00:22:14,260
information.

321
00:22:14,680 --> 00:22:15,660
That would be very helpful.

322
00:22:15,660 --> 00:22:18,360
I think that's appropriate. Don't we all agree? Okay.

323
00:22:19,240 --> 00:22:20,780
Oh, we don't want something meaningless.

324
00:22:22,040 --> 00:22:24,300
I mean, if we're putting something in here,

325
00:22:24,540 --> 00:22:26,040
where we know I can't be divorced.

326
00:22:26,680 --> 00:22:30,320
No, we're saying they can't play music past a certain time.

327
00:22:31,220 --> 00:22:32,140
Right, and that's what that means.

328
00:22:32,580 --> 00:22:36,460
Right, so I think we should just discuss actually what time that is.

329
00:22:37,200 --> 00:22:39,920
Do we think 12 a.m. is appropriate?

330
00:22:40,420 --> 00:22:41,660
But I'm going to need an eight.

331
00:22:41,660 --> 00:22:47,860
I would say I kind of feel that way too because I think I'm correct that it was 11 if I live next door to be 11

332
00:22:49,040 --> 00:22:51,560
Sorry if I live next door to be 11

333
00:22:51,560 --> 00:22:54,220
Right exactly and we have to think of this

334
00:22:54,220 --> 00:22:55,780
You want to go there as well?

335
00:22:56,180 --> 00:23:03,280
And to remind everybody in the master plan, we want to encourage residential downtown as well as active, you know

336
00:23:03,800 --> 00:23:05,620
Space so it's it's about

337
00:23:05,620 --> 00:23:11,180
Just one question and not to relitigate the whole thing about the master plan reacts

338
00:23:11,180 --> 00:23:20,400
But I think Susan's talking about the devices and the mechanisms that would go along with what we write in the in the reacts those are

339
00:23:21,060 --> 00:23:23,320
Related but potentially two separate things

340
00:23:23,320 --> 00:23:30,220
So if there's noise issues happening from commercial properties or other things that people are bringing up right now

341
00:23:30,220 --> 00:23:37,800
Can't wouldn't we be visiting them separately even if they're in parallel like the reacts won't say you know

342
00:23:37,800 --> 00:23:43,960
The city should use this type of device or that type of device through this means or that means it will just define

343
00:23:44,780 --> 00:23:49,640
DCA DVD where it's coming from and will still be still potentially with the same

344
00:23:50,580 --> 00:23:58,960
Comment that Susan just made which I agree with which is how are we how can we effectively measure the noise ordinance that we have on our books right now?

345
00:24:00,200 --> 00:24:06,100
And I'm not saying we've to solve that tonight, but I think that's something that was brought up with the council meetings that relates to

346
00:24:06,100 --> 00:24:13,440
the data center type stuff and I've lived down by the BMS property so it's a

347
00:24:13,440 --> 00:24:18,280
current issue I've been there for 12 years so I think that deserves its own

348
00:24:18,280 --> 00:24:22,400
discussion which may or may not be part of the re-act, right?

349
00:24:23,740 --> 00:24:24,300
Okay

350
00:24:26,410 --> 00:24:35,820
so back to this do we feel that 8 a.m. to 12 a.m. Thursday through Saturday is

351
00:24:35,820 --> 00:24:40,380
is appropriate. That's a very specific recommendation.

352
00:24:41,820 --> 00:24:43,300
Where did we get that from?

353
00:24:43,900 --> 00:24:48,540
I think that when Tom wrote this up, he looked at other municipalities.

354
00:24:49,000 --> 00:24:52,740
No, it says 4 p.m. to 10 p.m. Monday through Friday.

355
00:24:53,140 --> 00:24:55,640
That's right. And then a little later on.

356
00:24:55,820 --> 00:24:59,760
12 p.m. to 12 a.m. or am I reading?

357
00:25:00,700 --> 00:25:03,880
Well then, sorry, I'm jumping because I circled the two.

358
00:25:03,880 --> 00:25:06,680
But anyway, one is, yeah,

359
00:25:09,170 --> 00:25:10,790
anyway, is 12 a.m. too late.

360
00:25:11,570 --> 00:25:12,830
I think Susan says is too late.

361
00:25:13,130 --> 00:25:14,090
I'm leaning towards 11.

362
00:25:14,390 --> 00:25:15,530
11, too late.

363
00:25:16,270 --> 00:25:16,490
Yeah.

364
00:25:16,910 --> 00:25:18,050
I hear a neighbor.

365
00:25:18,730 --> 00:25:18,910
Sorry.

366
00:25:19,210 --> 00:25:21,690
What's it open now, I just don't know.

367
00:25:23,230 --> 00:25:28,490
I think from a music on an open forum, yeah.

368
00:25:28,790 --> 00:25:32,410
So let's, for now, say 11 and then the governing body

369
00:25:32,410 --> 00:25:34,590
can discuss it further.

370
00:25:34,590 --> 00:25:44,090
but this is our recommendation okay thank you moving on so it'll be until 11

371
00:25:44,090 --> 00:25:54,590
yeah 11 p.m. yeah 11 p.m. did I say I am okay 11 p.m. okay so I think we'll

372
00:25:54,590 --> 00:25:59,670
cover this later but something that we have to amend to be consistent with our

373
00:25:59,670 --> 00:26:11,710
our recent legislation is to, I mean, ordinance is to remove the primary use of data centers,

374
00:26:11,870 --> 00:26:15,850
computer centers, et cetera, but I think we can, I think that that's an easy recommendation

375
00:26:16,590 --> 00:26:21,710
to make to be consistent because it's inconsistent now in the fraud zone and the prod two zone.

376
00:26:21,890 --> 00:26:24,850
It says principle uses could be computer data centers, et cetera.

377
00:26:25,190 --> 00:26:26,750
That didn't mean what it means now.

378
00:26:26,750 --> 00:26:33,430
now, and so now that's just an accessory use, which is to come out of, I added it, yeah.

379
00:26:34,150 --> 00:26:39,790
Because it wasn't, it's become topical now, and it means something completely different,

380
00:26:39,970 --> 00:26:45,210
so that's why we added our deer up, but that's all I have.

381
00:26:45,470 --> 00:26:46,570
What else did you all have?

382
00:26:46,570 --> 00:26:53,620
Two and a half pounds and then the regulations, I don't know what the policy means because it's all over the room.

383
00:26:55,280 --> 00:27:00,120
I mean give the key through other pounds, say anything about those.

384
00:27:02,140 --> 00:27:10,380
Usually it comes under the order of an accessory structure, so it's 15 or 17 or 18 feet, that would mean the cap.

385
00:27:11,220 --> 00:27:14,560
I'm just wondering if it seems to me that might be a buyer.

386
00:27:14,560 --> 00:27:28,700
I can't say I've ever seen a specific regulation for those heating elements, but if you have a recommendation, then I didn't know if they were a fire hazard.

387
00:27:28,880 --> 00:27:30,460
Perhaps they go off if they fall down.

388
00:27:30,840 --> 00:27:36,180
Well, it's actually a good question because on Maple Street, one thing we didn't talk about during the Maple Street audience.

389
00:27:36,180 --> 00:27:43,500
and you could probably speak to John Gerricks on to those heaters back there with all those businesses and I'm trying to take care of them.

390
00:27:43,580 --> 00:27:44,780
They are all propane fire.

391
00:27:44,860 --> 00:27:46,080
They're all propane fire hazards.

392
00:27:46,240 --> 00:27:49,740
They are all inspected by our fire official from the fire department.

393
00:27:49,900 --> 00:27:50,820
So how many they love to have?

394
00:27:51,800 --> 00:27:53,260
I don't think there's a limit to be honest.

395
00:27:54,120 --> 00:27:54,820
What is that a problem?

396
00:27:56,980 --> 00:27:58,520
Like if one catches on fire, how many?

397
00:27:58,840 --> 00:28:04,180
Yeah, I mean the fire code is going to basically address, you know, do the block means to be aggressive?

398
00:28:04,180 --> 00:28:10,840
But just for the layman, if there's 15 propane heaters and one blows up, is that a problem?

399
00:28:13,770 --> 00:28:15,850
It's blowing up and everything is a problem.

400
00:28:16,210 --> 00:28:18,430
But unfortunately, I don't think that's a problem.

401
00:28:18,670 --> 00:28:25,810
So I don't think that that is a plan for a topic, unfortunately, because furniture is not really something we can cover.

402
00:28:26,590 --> 00:28:28,810
Yeah, maybe, right. I was thinking.

403
00:28:28,870 --> 00:28:30,690
Doesn't mean that you can't pursue this issue.

404
00:28:30,910 --> 00:28:31,730
Yeah, it's okay. I'm good.

405
00:28:31,830 --> 00:28:33,790
On another path because it sounds important.

406
00:28:33,790 --> 00:28:37,210
And did you get your original question?

407
00:28:38,450 --> 00:28:40,370
Your original question on the heater.

408
00:28:40,890 --> 00:28:41,530
We're good with that.

409
00:28:41,690 --> 00:28:43,490
No, I just didn't know if the refire hazard,

410
00:28:43,650 --> 00:28:44,890
and we should be thinking about that,

411
00:28:45,010 --> 00:28:46,590
because technology marches on,

412
00:28:46,830 --> 00:28:48,990
and maybe they make one of the touches.

413
00:28:50,930 --> 00:28:52,450
I could look into it.

414
00:28:54,010 --> 00:28:56,050
But I've never seen an ordinance

415
00:28:56,770 --> 00:29:00,850
that has a cap on one of those heating elements.

416
00:29:00,850 --> 00:29:03,890
It's a good question.

417
00:29:04,630 --> 00:29:05,630
I understand the question.

418
00:29:06,510 --> 00:29:06,950
Thank you.

419
00:29:09,170 --> 00:29:16,610
Did you all get a chance to look at another part of this DRO request is to or suggested

420
00:29:16,610 --> 00:29:21,230
that it's to put the design guidelines in the meat of the document.

421
00:29:21,230 --> 00:29:28,070
It's referred to in every single zone, the design guidelines, that each zone has to be compatible with the design guidelines.

422
00:29:28,070 --> 00:29:32,990
why make it hard to find and Joe mentions to me today that we're one of the last

423
00:29:32,990 --> 00:29:38,610
municipalities to not put it into our meat of our DRO. So I think it's tough. And we

424
00:29:38,610 --> 00:29:48,030
also received thanks to Mike Dioran. How do you say that? He's an architect in

425
00:29:48,030 --> 00:29:53,050
town and he's really nice and he helps with HBC volunteers there and he drew

426
00:29:53,050 --> 00:29:59,690
this up for us, just to, because illustrations really help to educate architects.

427
00:30:01,740 --> 00:30:08,380
We're talking about various issues in our DRO and in our design guidelines. So he was kind

428
00:30:08,380 --> 00:30:15,140
of enough to do this and we went over all the notes. Hopefully you all were able to read

429
00:30:15,140 --> 00:30:22,960
them, but it's trying to clarify how to treat facades of historic buildings, what sorts

430
00:30:22,960 --> 00:30:28,060
of treatments do you want to see in infill buildings. And I think it's just we have a lot

431
00:30:28,060 --> 00:30:32,280
illustrations in the design guidelines as you will note a lot of them

432
00:30:32,280 --> 00:30:34,860
they were residential some of them are commercial but most of the

433
00:30:34,860 --> 00:30:40,520
residential so it's nice to have another commercial example so if you have

434
00:30:40,520 --> 00:30:47,160
any questions ask away if you have any edits let me know but I think we would

435
00:30:47,160 --> 00:30:57,660
add this to the section on the more you describe and explain the more tools the

436
00:30:57,660 --> 00:30:59,420
the rhythm and solid voice section.

437
00:31:00,280 --> 00:31:01,860
So Jennifer, I think it's a great idea.

438
00:31:02,200 --> 00:31:05,740
I think there are examples of buildings

439
00:31:05,740 --> 00:31:09,720
where if attention had been given to the design guidelines,

440
00:31:10,060 --> 00:31:12,200
it would have saved heartache subsequently,

441
00:31:12,780 --> 00:31:15,920
including a recent very high profile case.

442
00:31:16,320 --> 00:31:17,800
And so I agree.

443
00:31:18,260 --> 00:31:20,140
I understand that they were developed years ago,

444
00:31:20,400 --> 00:31:22,960
is it worth a refresh of the design guidelines?

445
00:31:23,520 --> 00:31:24,840
They were developed years ago,

446
00:31:24,840 --> 00:31:28,580
and then we edited them heavily and got them

447
00:31:28,580 --> 00:31:31,160
incorporated into Dero what five years ago

448
00:31:31,160 --> 00:31:33,140
or something like that.

449
00:31:33,260 --> 00:31:34,440
I don't even know if that's CVD.

450
00:31:34,940 --> 00:31:36,960
It was in 2020, we got it.

451
00:31:36,960 --> 00:31:39,340
The central business district plan

452
00:31:39,340 --> 00:31:42,440
was done a good 10 or more years ago.

453
00:31:42,760 --> 00:31:42,880
Yeah, right.

454
00:31:43,220 --> 00:31:45,320
We had some of this information.

455
00:31:46,070 --> 00:31:47,460
But you're right about a refresh.

456
00:31:49,270 --> 00:31:50,960
If I could suggest that we're going to do

457
00:31:50,960 --> 00:31:52,920
this comprehensive new master plan,

458
00:31:52,920 --> 00:31:58,640
And that would be the perfect time to update that document as part of the overall comprehensive plan.

459
00:31:59,020 --> 00:31:59,920
Yeah, that would be great.

460
00:32:00,260 --> 00:32:01,620
Something like this would fit in.

461
00:32:01,640 --> 00:32:02,820
It would always be enhanced.

462
00:32:04,220 --> 00:32:09,900
You know, I just, I asked my a long time ago, hey, can you do some of your great sketches?

463
00:32:10,100 --> 00:32:11,200
And he's kind enough to do so.

464
00:32:11,300 --> 00:32:14,300
And I don't see why we wouldn't add it now.

465
00:32:14,500 --> 00:32:16,540
And then, yeah, if we want to redo it again,

466
00:32:16,540 --> 00:32:18,960
and all the better, make it more consistent,

467
00:32:19,480 --> 00:32:21,500
as far as the appearance of it,

468
00:32:21,540 --> 00:32:23,720
but the actual meat of what we suggest,

469
00:32:23,920 --> 00:32:24,600
I think it's pretty good.

470
00:32:25,840 --> 00:32:26,380
Thank you.

471
00:32:28,480 --> 00:32:29,240
What else?

472
00:32:30,320 --> 00:32:30,560
Yes.

473
00:32:31,340 --> 00:32:31,560
Sorry.

474
00:32:31,920 --> 00:32:33,740
Another comment on section eight,

475
00:32:34,520 --> 00:32:37,180
the electric vehicle charging stations.

476
00:32:37,640 --> 00:32:37,920
Oh, yeah.

477
00:32:38,120 --> 00:32:41,060
And it says there's a bracketed reserve.

478
00:32:41,780 --> 00:32:44,120
And what is intended to go there?

479
00:32:44,840 --> 00:32:45,180
Yes.

480
00:32:45,180 --> 00:32:46,480
Yes, the consistency.

481
00:32:47,220 --> 00:32:47,240
Okay.

482
00:32:48,000 --> 00:32:48,920
Page five.

483
00:32:49,460 --> 00:32:49,900
Section 8.

484
00:32:50,040 --> 00:32:50,820
I don't think we're trying to warn this.

485
00:32:50,920 --> 00:32:51,420
Or EV.

486
00:32:51,800 --> 00:32:52,380
Yeah.

487
00:32:52,560 --> 00:32:52,820
Yeah.

488
00:32:52,960 --> 00:32:56,140
So the state has requirements back in 2021.

489
00:32:56,760 --> 00:32:56,860
Yeah.

490
00:32:56,880 --> 00:32:59,800
The state does in fact have the model ordinance now.

491
00:33:00,560 --> 00:33:12,000
And we had said originally that the electric vehicle stations should be repealed and replaced

492
00:33:12,000 --> 00:33:14,100
with something.

493
00:33:14,100 --> 00:33:18,920
But the municipality just has never proceeded to take that model ordinance.

494
00:33:19,540 --> 00:33:25,240
The model ordinance, yeah, is 10 pages.

495
00:33:25,980 --> 00:33:32,080
It actually very specifically identifies where you cannot make adjustments and where you're

496
00:33:32,080 --> 00:33:33,200
entitled to make adjustments.

497
00:33:33,520 --> 00:33:35,260
It's a very simple document to follow.

498
00:33:35,960 --> 00:33:42,720
There are Joe though, if I recall correctly, there are some discretionary areas of the ordinance

499
00:33:42,720 --> 00:33:43,200
as well.

500
00:33:43,200 --> 00:33:53,380
Yeah, that's very far into it has a number of discretionary and a number of and also identify that it's a remandatory. It's just a matter of

501
00:33:54,640 --> 00:34:00,620
being directed to send it to the governing body filled out. Nobody's ever done that for whatever reason.

502
00:34:02,280 --> 00:34:06,540
I think the one thing that we were talking about last year is in our previous

503
00:34:06,540 --> 00:34:09,080
this electric vehicle charging station,

504
00:34:09,120 --> 00:34:10,300
we weren't allowed to have advertising.

505
00:34:11,340 --> 00:34:15,260
And I think just my opinion, I don't think it's a terrible thing.

506
00:34:15,640 --> 00:34:17,060
City could make money off some advertising.

507
00:34:17,500 --> 00:34:20,220
If it's not, initially, I don't think anybody wanted advertising,

508
00:34:20,480 --> 00:34:23,660
but does anybody really care if it's in the parking lot of DeForest?

509
00:34:24,120 --> 00:34:25,980
And can we get an extra charger or two?

510
00:34:26,100 --> 00:34:26,840
We don't have to pay for it.

511
00:34:27,120 --> 00:34:29,740
I don't care, but maybe people will not like that.

512
00:34:30,260 --> 00:34:31,040
I'm okay with it.

513
00:34:31,380 --> 00:34:32,700
But I think that's the one big thing.

514
00:34:32,800 --> 00:34:34,340
I don't remember what the other changes were.

515
00:34:34,900 --> 00:34:40,040
I can't remember off top of my head, but I'm not opposed to it, so the more the better.

516
00:34:40,060 --> 00:34:45,780
I think the design of it is key, like if the whole thing ends up being a big add, you

517
00:34:45,780 --> 00:34:52,280
know, lit up, I think that would not be compatible, but it's just a little screen that has,

518
00:34:52,300 --> 00:34:53,600
you know, or something like that.

519
00:34:54,000 --> 00:34:57,760
I don't think we even have, do we have an EV charger in the, um, the one next to the

520
00:34:57,760 --> 00:34:58,060
transition?

521
00:34:58,480 --> 00:35:04,900
So it would be a perfect opportunity for the city to get one with an advertiser, pay for it, and be done with it.

522
00:35:05,260 --> 00:35:10,200
I want to pay for it. I'm sure these are seven done, but I think that was the intended by bringing it up.

523
00:35:11,980 --> 00:35:16,200
I actually missed one at it. I have a couple of things going on.

524
00:35:16,200 --> 00:35:21,000
General, what were the next steps to move that forward? Is it on council's lap or...?

525
00:35:21,000 --> 00:35:25,060
I think that you're going to insert the language before you...

526
00:35:25,060 --> 00:35:28,040
I can do that before you send a recommendation.

527
00:35:28,440 --> 00:35:29,160
That's what I got.

528
00:35:29,240 --> 00:35:31,680
So you lift up the state language and you put in the ordinance

529
00:35:31,680 --> 00:35:33,620
and there's some discretionary and some mandatory

530
00:35:33,620 --> 00:35:35,840
and that's how it's written and there's some counsels.

531
00:35:36,060 --> 00:35:36,380
Great.

532
00:35:36,860 --> 00:35:38,360
Yeah, it's fairly simple and straightforward.

533
00:35:39,300 --> 00:35:39,620
Great.

534
00:35:39,800 --> 00:35:40,720
Can you just pass it to us?

535
00:35:40,800 --> 00:35:42,080
We can just take a peek at it before.

536
00:35:43,480 --> 00:35:44,460
I just don't know what's in it.

537
00:35:45,060 --> 00:35:45,700
Yeah, the state language.

538
00:35:46,280 --> 00:35:47,340
I just haven't looked at it in a while.

539
00:35:48,140 --> 00:35:48,300
OK.

540
00:35:49,360 --> 00:35:50,420
I'm sorry, I didn't hear that.

541
00:35:50,720 --> 00:35:52,900
Oh, can we just flip that to us?

542
00:35:52,980 --> 00:35:54,760
What we can do, I guess, is just circulate

543
00:35:54,760 --> 00:35:58,580
the state model, and then working between

544
00:35:58,580 --> 00:36:00,540
on considerations of whether we'd allow

545
00:36:00,540 --> 00:36:04,520
or advertising or not, so we can have that forward

546
00:36:04,520 --> 00:36:05,300
to the board.

547
00:36:06,100 --> 00:36:06,580
Thank you.

548
00:36:07,240 --> 00:36:07,480
You're good.

549
00:36:07,660 --> 00:36:07,680
Wonderful.

550
00:36:08,540 --> 00:36:10,260
Under porkers, Sheriff Section 9,

551
00:36:10,260 --> 00:36:11,820
I forgot that I crossed the south.

552
00:36:12,620 --> 00:36:15,300
I think that the first part is fine.

553
00:36:15,340 --> 00:36:17,500
A roof structure attached to the principal building

554
00:36:17,500 --> 00:36:20,540
designed to cover an entrance for sheltering persons,

555
00:36:20,960 --> 00:36:22,880
entering, and exiting vehicles.

556
00:36:22,880 --> 00:36:25,020
It says existing, but it means exiting.

557
00:36:27,650 --> 00:36:33,300
And then the rest of that vehicle, it says a covered gateway, et cetera.

558
00:36:33,440 --> 00:36:40,160
This is so rare and could lead to a more commercial appearance, could be just done so wrong that

559
00:36:40,160 --> 00:36:48,140
I just think that needs to be taken out up to where it says property to an interior courtyard.

560
00:36:48,140 --> 00:36:56,220
We are at that part, all of that should be deleted and then and is not intended as covered parking area provided.

561
00:36:56,460 --> 00:36:59,920
It shall be designed consistent with the fraffessade of the dwelling because typically

562
00:36:59,920 --> 00:37:03,120
porkershares are at the same style and materialized.

563
00:37:03,500 --> 00:37:06,580
So that is something that's been out there for a long time.

564
00:37:06,660 --> 00:37:10,300
People have wanted a definition of a porkershares, this is it.

565
00:37:10,420 --> 00:37:14,540
But I don't think we should get into this gateway business for a courier because it's a little different.

566
00:37:14,960 --> 00:37:16,320
Just for far we're selling.

567
00:37:16,500 --> 00:37:16,940
Now we're corrupt.

568
00:37:19,200 --> 00:37:19,900
I know.

569
00:37:20,740 --> 00:37:21,240
Anyway.

570
00:37:21,660 --> 00:37:24,380
That's an old part of the Bureau that's not there.

571
00:37:24,400 --> 00:37:25,420
One typo or not?

572
00:37:25,820 --> 00:37:26,020
Sorry.

573
00:37:26,080 --> 00:37:29,360
The second typo versus entering an existing.

574
00:37:29,880 --> 00:37:30,040
Yes.

575
00:37:30,340 --> 00:37:31,020
Entering and exiting.

576
00:37:32,060 --> 00:37:33,400
Is what it should be.

577
00:37:33,760 --> 00:37:33,980
Exactly.

578
00:37:35,220 --> 00:37:43,280
So there was only one other thing before we send the, I mean, recommend that we put the design

579
00:37:43,280 --> 00:37:47,600
guidelines in the meat of it. There's one edit I have on page 14 of the design

580
00:37:47,600 --> 00:37:52,820
guidelines. Oh yeah, that's a question for John. Do you guys ever run into this

581
00:37:52,820 --> 00:37:57,200
with fire trucks or ambulances when people have work for shares at their houses?

582
00:37:59,320 --> 00:38:05,200
Worth a width in the height, yes. Yes, so certainly it's an institutional structure

583
00:38:05,200 --> 00:38:09,360
that should be a minimum height of 10 feet. You know, never run to it in your

584
00:38:09,360 --> 00:38:15,460
residents. Okay. Usually it's there's more than one way to get around the

585
00:38:15,460 --> 00:38:21,880
partnership. Oh that's good. That's a good question. Safety theme. That's good.

586
00:38:23,240 --> 00:38:30,700
Understorm water I just have a few edits to make that a must because it had it

587
00:38:30,700 --> 00:38:34,660
says the City of Summit encourages but instead of that it should say project shall

588
00:38:34,660 --> 00:38:38,680
the design to manage all stormwater on site.

589
00:38:42,080 --> 00:38:46,840
Techniques to do so include natural

590
00:38:46,840 --> 00:38:55,120
landscape elements including fire smells, landscapes, more trees, buildings and it goes on and

591
00:38:55,120 --> 00:39:01,320
on. That was just the main change. And also, you could also simply reference the talons

592
00:39:01,320 --> 00:39:05,560
stormwater management. Yeah, and we could do that. That would be great. I remember seeing

593
00:39:05,560 --> 00:39:13,120
We see I don't believe the design guidelines were attached because it's covered but I think

594
00:39:13,120 --> 00:39:18,620
this is more about the different ways they wanted to incur different ways of dealing with

595
00:39:21,680 --> 00:39:23,680
it's in the DR role.

596
00:39:23,680 --> 00:39:29,220
I'm just saying the store where we're managing the plan is where it gets updated periodically

597
00:39:29,840 --> 00:39:31,200
so there might be more.

598
00:39:34,560 --> 00:39:40,620
I mean, this was put in from, uh, anyway, go ahead, ask for a portion.

599
00:39:41,680 --> 00:39:45,380
I'm just trying to think about how this, I mean, Augusta, you probably can read my mind

600
00:39:45,380 --> 00:39:49,980
where I'm going with this, as we go out to, if one, if one house is being built on top

601
00:39:49,980 --> 00:39:54,200
of another and all the storm waters draining into the other properties house and they don't

602
00:39:54,200 --> 00:39:57,880
have their, they don't have their gutters and like, how are we even going to enforce this?

603
00:39:57,880 --> 00:40:00,620
because they can't put landscape again, right, at this point.

604
00:40:03,820 --> 00:40:05,780
The design guidelines are for,

605
00:40:05,780 --> 00:40:11,920
because new work, you know, pre-existing non-conforming, you know, you can't

606
00:40:11,920 --> 00:40:15,660
run around and make people conform if they're not changing their building or changing their property.

607
00:40:15,880 --> 00:40:18,980
I mean, all of the stuff in the DRO is for new work.

608
00:40:19,920 --> 00:40:23,260
Yeah, and to that same example, it wouldn't be an

609
00:40:23,260 --> 00:40:34,800
active enforcement of a passive, for example, you could change the circumstances of stormwater controls within the DRO to say a new residential development of a single family home needs to include X, Y, and Z.

610
00:40:35,480 --> 00:40:42,440
So that would become for anything new, and you would assume that over time it fixes the problem very slowly.

611
00:40:42,640 --> 00:40:48,740
You would see progressively as opposed to some kind of active enforcement on that stormwater.

612
00:40:48,740 --> 00:40:57,320
But it doesn't mean that you, you know, a resident doesn't have the capability of going to City Hall and talking to, you know, the Department of Community Service and things.

613
00:40:57,620 --> 00:41:04,320
I need help. There's a problem, you know. But when it comes to the DRO and the Design Guidelines, this is about future work.

614
00:41:05,060 --> 00:41:05,540
Okay.

615
00:41:07,980 --> 00:41:09,020
I don't think I have anything else.

616
00:41:09,020 --> 00:41:16,680
So, fixing one photo, which is just a better photo under the solar panels, was really that

617
00:41:16,680 --> 00:41:16,940
photo.

618
00:41:17,360 --> 00:41:18,440
So, I will circulate that.

619
00:41:21,400 --> 00:41:27,540
I sent an email out to, I think it was Joe, Jennifer, I was wondering if we just

620
00:41:27,540 --> 00:41:30,820
pass it to the board after you've looked at it, Joe, the height-sensitive side yard controls

621
00:41:31,320 --> 00:41:38,020
and residential sky exposure in the R5 and R6 zone, it was actually given me by a resident

622
00:41:38,020 --> 00:41:41,660
I think it's actually pretty interesting, very smart resident.

623
00:41:43,740 --> 00:41:47,200
Summit's residential zoning regulates a lot area, a lot coverage, building coverage,

624
00:41:47,560 --> 00:41:51,940
front yard, rear yard side yard, total side yard, flurry, racial stories and maximum

625
00:41:51,940 --> 00:41:52,740
building height.

626
00:41:54,200 --> 00:41:58,620
However, they don't fully regulate the vertical relationship between a new or expanded structure

627
00:41:59,140 --> 00:42:03,080
and the second story, Windows of an immediate adjacent dwelling when smaller lots are developed

628
00:42:03,080 --> 00:42:05,740
close to the maximum permitted envelope.

629
00:42:06,560 --> 00:42:09,160
It's a lot for one meeting, so just take a look at it.

630
00:42:09,280 --> 00:42:13,820
It's prepared by Ellie a fisherman, when you're bored over the

631
00:42:13,820 --> 00:42:17,920
forefinger like how they take a look at it, but I think it's, I think it's pretty interesting, I'm curious to see

632
00:42:17,920 --> 00:42:18,800
everybody's thoughts on it.

633
00:42:19,160 --> 00:42:24,980
Yeah, so we can look at it and see if there's anything we can put in the deer on it, yeah.

634
00:42:25,220 --> 00:42:30,620
It's basically like a smaller lot, as the houses get smaller and these other houses,

635
00:42:30,900 --> 00:42:35,140
you know, there start to be three stories, either blocking the, I'm sure they're nice.

636
00:42:35,140 --> 00:42:39,220
Yeah, I'm sure something reasonable, but I can be wrong.

637
00:42:40,720 --> 00:42:44,040
I'll let our planner and our smart staff see if it makes sense.

638
00:42:45,260 --> 00:42:47,540
I mean, the question to like the

639
00:42:48,460 --> 00:42:49,620
proportion to the neighbors.

640
00:42:49,840 --> 00:42:49,920
Right.

641
00:42:50,800 --> 00:42:51,620
Is that what this is?

642
00:42:51,680 --> 00:42:54,820
Is that part of the work that people can hear you at home?

643
00:42:55,120 --> 00:42:55,180
Sorry.

644
00:42:55,820 --> 00:42:59,040
I'm just trying to clarify what we could look at later,

645
00:42:59,040 --> 00:43:02,080
but does it sound like he's talking about just like

646
00:43:02,080 --> 00:43:06,840
a new development relative to the neighboring structures

647
00:43:06,840 --> 00:43:10,220
in that basically both sides of a neighbor

648
00:43:10,220 --> 00:43:13,540
could be overshadowed by a development.

649
00:43:13,720 --> 00:43:15,340
That's probably a zoning thing that's looked at

650
00:43:15,340 --> 00:43:17,860
on every application, but maybe it's just not spelled out.

651
00:43:18,160 --> 00:43:21,160
Especially if they're asking for a side-yard variance,

652
00:43:21,780 --> 00:43:23,580
that's really coming to play.

653
00:43:25,200 --> 00:43:28,960
You have seen ordinances where the heights

654
00:43:28,960 --> 00:43:38,260
are allowed to be lower as you get closer to the side property lines.

655
00:43:42,190 --> 00:43:45,750
I guess this is in the DRO bulk height in R5 and R6.

656
00:43:47,410 --> 00:43:49,090
It's relevant in any zone.

657
00:43:49,690 --> 00:43:54,450
It's going to have topics like in New York.

658
00:43:54,450 --> 00:44:03,290
they did a new zoning in 1916 where they required setbacks to skyscrapers because of light-nare

659
00:44:03,290 --> 00:44:03,690
issues.

660
00:44:04,450 --> 00:44:09,450
If you ever walk around downtown where Wall Street is, it's the canyon because there's

661
00:44:09,450 --> 00:44:14,970
before a lot of that was before the 1916 zoning change and then you go to other neighborhoods

662
00:44:14,970 --> 00:44:22,690
and you see all the stepbacks, it's a little more open and it's a long-term planning issue.

663
00:44:22,690 --> 00:44:30,170
So we're looking at there's a particular issue in the R5 or R6 so we'll look at that the next round

664
00:44:30,170 --> 00:44:36,830
I think that's what this area is kind of down is that what they're referencing is down here like magic mountain area where there's some the lots are tight

665
00:44:37,730 --> 00:44:41,690
There's some smaller older homes and then they're fully down going and all of a sudden you're

666
00:44:46,510 --> 00:44:52,770
Thanks all right, so do we have any other suggested edits for this round of DR

667
00:44:52,770 --> 00:44:55,250
suggested changes to the City of Council.

668
00:45:00,000 --> 00:45:26,100
So I think we are ready to recommend sending these up. Hopefully Councilman Christopher Lee can get it through. I'll read it more, I'll take them up. Do your best. One suggestion. Not really for the deal though, sort of general policy. And I see this does not last but not consistently. So when do we make a change to rezone an area or even receive an application?

669
00:45:26,100 --> 00:45:29,240
The fact that the Constitution, rather than simply the third to, you know, block 207,

670
00:45:29,440 --> 00:45:34,360
which is 379 and 10, maybe we could just add commonly known as five close friends

671
00:45:34,360 --> 00:45:36,940
to the avenue. That would be so much easier for the public

672
00:45:36,940 --> 00:45:41,240
for what we're doing. And some of us too, I mean a couple of us probably have

673
00:45:41,240 --> 00:45:44,660
memorized, but many of us don't. Right. Right.

674
00:45:44,840 --> 00:45:48,060
That's a great idea. Is there any reason why we don't do that?

675
00:45:49,560 --> 00:45:52,460
There's nothing legally stopping you to do that. And most

676
00:45:52,460 --> 00:45:56,580
you know, once we get an ordinance or something, usually has both. But yeah, just for general

677
00:45:56,580 --> 00:46:04,600
parliaments, that's a good idea. Good idea. I like it. Okay. So moving on, we

678
00:46:06,710 --> 00:46:09,370
have, yes,

679
00:46:09,750 --> 00:46:15,990
we did, Dan, would you like to introduce this? Sure. There's been busy at work. Should

680
00:46:15,990 --> 00:46:21,170
there be a motion formally referring this back to the government body? Oh, yes. The DRO.

681
00:46:23,350 --> 00:46:26,210
We're not coming back with a clean, we're doing it now.

682
00:46:26,350 --> 00:46:27,190
I think we're good.

683
00:46:27,650 --> 00:46:29,010
I mean, I trust them to make these at.

684
00:46:29,150 --> 00:46:30,310
They're not substantial.

685
00:46:30,650 --> 00:46:30,870
They're not.

686
00:46:31,270 --> 00:46:33,790
And these minor changes we could add to it.

687
00:46:33,910 --> 00:46:38,450
But you would say, for soon to our...

688
00:46:38,450 --> 00:46:39,470
I think that's fine.

689
00:46:41,550 --> 00:46:43,130
And it's not a resolution.

690
00:46:43,510 --> 00:46:45,730
So emotion, second, and voice vote is sufficient

691
00:46:46,390 --> 00:46:49,610
to our surrogate clerk this evening.

692
00:46:50,650 --> 00:46:51,550
So moved.

693
00:46:52,390 --> 00:46:55,370
Oh, you could also make the most of it.

694
00:46:55,890 --> 00:46:56,490
All in favor?

695
00:46:56,910 --> 00:46:57,130
Hi.

696
00:46:57,270 --> 00:46:57,530
Hi.

697
00:46:58,070 --> 00:46:58,430
Opposed?

698
00:47:00,990 --> 00:47:01,770
A lot of different hats.

699
00:47:01,770 --> 00:47:02,150
I know.

700
00:47:03,050 --> 00:47:03,470
Okay.

701
00:47:03,750 --> 00:47:04,370
Now it's official.

702
00:47:05,290 --> 00:47:06,170
So that's done.

703
00:47:06,810 --> 00:47:06,910
Yeah.

704
00:47:07,270 --> 00:47:16,470
Joe's been hard at work because the planning board members and Dan wanted to help out with the

705
00:47:16,470 --> 00:47:17,890
The data center

706
00:47:18,890 --> 00:47:19,770
Ordnance and

707
00:47:20,430 --> 00:47:21,570
Dan, would you like to?

708
00:47:24,190 --> 00:47:28,190
Are we going to a private session yet? Or no? Sorry? No. Oh, because we're not on the agenda. Okay.

709
00:47:28,510 --> 00:47:32,390
No. We're off-piece. Kind of deoro-ish, but it's different.

710
00:47:33,410 --> 00:47:33,730
It's really.

711
00:47:34,270 --> 00:47:40,390
And it's really for the information of the planning board. I'm introducing this memo, which you should have a copy of.

712
00:47:40,470 --> 00:47:46,090
And for the public, I requested it to be put on the planning board website as soon as possible.

713
00:47:46,090 --> 00:47:48,850
It's a memo from Joe Burgess and Tom Barons.

714
00:47:50,110 --> 00:47:54,370
They're doing the leading land development and design experts in New Jersey.

715
00:47:55,250 --> 00:48:00,010
The memo provides input to some of its ordinance banning AI data centers.

716
00:48:00,370 --> 00:48:07,650
As you're probably aware, and the public hopefully is aware, the ordinance was determined by the planning board to be consistent with some of its master plan.

717
00:48:08,210 --> 00:48:14,890
And as such, the existing ordinance that we passed provides additional protections against undesirable land use.

718
00:48:14,890 --> 00:48:18,490
beyond the current, beyond the prior DRO provisions.

719
00:48:19,230 --> 00:48:22,850
During the public hearing at the council meeting on June 16th,

720
00:48:23,030 --> 00:48:25,130
comments by residents suggested the ordinance

721
00:48:25,130 --> 00:48:26,770
could be further strengthened.

722
00:48:27,310 --> 00:48:29,650
I requested this memo from Mr. Burgess

723
00:48:29,650 --> 00:48:32,730
to provide comments on the recently enacted ordinance

724
00:48:33,150 --> 00:48:34,730
and the light of those comments from residents

725
00:48:35,150 --> 00:48:37,330
and I'm providing the memo to the planning board

726
00:48:37,330 --> 00:48:39,010
for transparency to the public.

727
00:48:39,370 --> 00:48:42,950
As I said, I'm requesting that the memo be made available

728
00:48:42,950 --> 00:48:44,170
on the planning board website.

729
00:48:44,830 --> 00:48:45,250
Thank you.

730
00:48:45,650 --> 00:48:50,990
Yeah, so we had a meeting and just the three of us

731
00:48:50,990 --> 00:48:54,390
talking about, you know, how can we help with this?

732
00:48:54,650 --> 00:49:00,290
And Joe recommended that we really lay out

733
00:49:00,690 --> 00:49:01,730
the thinking behind it.

734
00:49:01,790 --> 00:49:04,870
And I think he does a very good job of, you know,

735
00:49:04,970 --> 00:49:05,930
because he's such a good planner,

736
00:49:06,330 --> 00:49:09,330
describing the positive negatives, defining things,

737
00:49:09,810 --> 00:49:12,470
you know, current thinking on this, how things have changed,

738
00:49:12,470 --> 00:49:18,070
how things may change. It's just a very comprehensive and thoughtful memo that

739
00:49:18,070 --> 00:49:25,070
discusses the topic at hand. And he's made some specific, very good, I think,

740
00:49:25,070 --> 00:49:35,200
very clear suggestions on changes. And I think we should definitely make the

741
00:49:35,200 --> 00:49:39,440
changes that Joe suggests, which are on page seven and eight.

742
00:49:42,080 --> 00:49:43,600
And I'd like input

743
00:49:43,600 --> 00:49:48,200
from the board on the memo and the suggested changes.

744
00:49:49,540 --> 00:49:50,720
If I can make a comment or so?

745
00:49:50,840 --> 00:49:51,880
Of course, you can make some comments.

746
00:49:51,880 --> 00:49:51,960
Okay.

747
00:49:52,980 --> 00:49:53,640
You know, this evolved.

748
00:49:54,280 --> 00:49:57,540
We had a great conversation with Dan in Jennifer and myself.

749
00:49:58,680 --> 00:50:03,360
And one thing that came out or a couple of things came out of that conversation, one of which

750
00:50:03,360 --> 00:50:09,940
was that there's, you know, as we say in this memo, a number of board members and council

751
00:50:09,940 --> 00:50:15,780
members have a lot of knowledge as well as members of the public, but some people don't.

752
00:50:16,340 --> 00:50:21,080
So that's why I decided it might be prudent to lay out some of the background information

753
00:50:21,080 --> 00:50:25,780
so everybody knows exactly what we're talking about, when we talk about different types

754
00:50:25,780 --> 00:50:29,920
of data centers, for example, so we define all of that.

755
00:50:29,920 --> 00:50:40,560
But we were specifically asked to amend the adopted ordnance definition of data centers.

756
00:50:41,360 --> 00:50:48,320
And when I first went about trying to do that, I knew right up front that a lot of people

757
00:50:48,320 --> 00:50:53,440
were upset with one particular component of it, so that was an easy thing to deal with.

758
00:50:53,440 --> 00:50:59,980
But as I tried to amend the ordinance and based on the fact that we've done a lot of

759
00:50:59,980 --> 00:51:04,200
ordinances for municipalities throughout the state on this topic and done a lot of

760
00:51:04,200 --> 00:51:12,080
research, I realize it might be better to just offer a brand new definition and that's

761
00:51:12,080 --> 00:51:20,480
the one that spelled out on page 7, I believe, 7B to be precise.

762
00:51:20,480 --> 00:51:27,120
So we identify a definition that I think is fairly straightforward and needed to read.

763
00:51:28,340 --> 00:51:34,520
And then in the current ordinance that you have, you have a definition of data centers

764
00:51:34,520 --> 00:51:42,380
which, for lack of a better term, is really designed to prohibit the large-scale AI data centers.

765
00:51:43,140 --> 00:51:51,480
And then you had a definition of computer centers, which was basically designed to reflect

766
00:51:51,480 --> 00:51:58,000
the fact that most businesses today will use AI in some fashion, and I remember joking

767
00:51:58,000 --> 00:52:02,780
me said to them, heck, my daughter does it, uses it to do her homework, for God's sake.

768
00:52:03,620 --> 00:52:07,200
And everybody uses AI today in some fashion.

769
00:52:07,800 --> 00:52:10,840
So we wanted to make certain that we allow for that.

770
00:52:10,840 --> 00:52:24,860
When I started to look at the ordinance consistent with the current definition, I began to realize there's a whole host of other changes in the code that had to be done to get rid of inconsistencies.

771
00:52:25,420 --> 00:52:38,340
And that was spelled out on page 6. But then as I put together the definition that we did in page 7 item B, I realized that if we just say, here's the definition of a data center.

772
00:52:38,340 --> 00:52:42,160
and here's what's not included in that definition.

773
00:52:42,680 --> 00:52:47,400
We basically identify in that exclusion section

774
00:52:47,400 --> 00:52:52,620
those businesses that AI is not their principal use.

775
00:52:53,200 --> 00:52:55,820
It's just ancillary to the business that they do.

776
00:52:56,700 --> 00:53:00,080
And it was a lot simpler and that's what's straightforward,

777
00:53:01,580 --> 00:53:02,760
which helped the process.

778
00:53:03,360 --> 00:53:06,580
So what I was intending to do after tonight's meeting

779
00:53:06,580 --> 00:53:34,720
was simply a mend to this memo, that item B on page 7 into page 8, that text in ordnance form and just stayed in this memo that at the end of the appendix of the report, here's your specific ordnance for you to contemplate when you meet on July 7.

780
00:53:34,720 --> 00:53:35,980
Next Tuesday.

781
00:53:36,560 --> 00:53:37,120
Next Tuesday.

782
00:53:37,320 --> 00:53:43,080
So they'll have it, you know, the whole text, the information purposes, the text of

783
00:53:43,080 --> 00:53:48,460
the ordinance, and then the ordinance itself, which this draft does not have, that last

784
00:53:48,460 --> 00:53:48,980
component.

785
00:53:49,600 --> 00:53:54,280
At least that way, you have to cut and dry and consistent with what the governing body

786
00:53:54,280 --> 00:53:55,300
actually asked for.

787
00:53:56,060 --> 00:53:56,800
Very good.

788
00:53:57,180 --> 00:53:57,540
Very good.

789
00:53:58,280 --> 00:53:59,200
I had a question.

790
00:53:59,300 --> 00:54:00,520
I have a question for Mr. Warner.

791
00:54:00,520 --> 00:54:05,160
So we're going to speak in a consistent way.

792
00:54:05,300 --> 00:54:12,720
I thought it was very important when we had to approve those ordinances that the language

793
00:54:13,220 --> 00:54:23,940
that we used as a planning board was the data center ordinance and the detention facility

794
00:54:23,940 --> 00:54:28,100
was not inconsistent with the master plan.

795
00:54:28,440 --> 00:54:29,560
That's what we agreed to.

796
00:54:29,880 --> 00:54:31,220
Not that it was consistent.

797
00:54:31,880 --> 00:54:33,800
So, is that language important?

798
00:54:35,040 --> 00:54:36,320
Whenever, whenever.

799
00:54:37,360 --> 00:54:38,400
Well, yes.

800
00:54:38,720 --> 00:54:39,460
You can let this in.

801
00:54:39,540 --> 00:54:41,300
If it's a water, please proceed.

802
00:54:42,620 --> 00:54:43,960
With the chair's permission.

803
00:54:44,660 --> 00:54:46,280
And that is in the end.

804
00:54:46,400 --> 00:54:47,280
It is not always well.

805
00:54:47,580 --> 00:54:47,680
Yes.

806
00:54:48,020 --> 00:54:52,000
So, when somebody gets up

807
00:54:52,000 --> 00:54:59,560
And it says you sit on the planning board and you said we said it was consistent.

808
00:55:00,200 --> 00:55:01,620
We never said it was consistent.

809
00:55:02,340 --> 00:55:03,580
We said it was not inconsistent.

810
00:55:03,980 --> 00:55:08,820
If I can help with the chair, the couple of different things.

811
00:55:09,060 --> 00:55:17,740
First of all, a consistency review does not relate to the specific language of the ordinance.

812
00:55:17,740 --> 00:55:24,620
It's whether the content of the ordinance is or is not consistent or inconsistent,

813
00:55:24,980 --> 00:55:29,300
let's say, not inconsistent or is inconsistent with the master plan.

814
00:55:29,500 --> 00:55:35,280
The reason we use not inconsistent, not because we like to use double negatives, we don't.

815
00:55:35,760 --> 00:55:41,940
But because under the law, the municipal land use law and governing case law, substantial

816
00:55:41,940 --> 00:55:44,740
consistency close is enough.

817
00:55:44,740 --> 00:55:51,920
substantial consistency is the bar that one must surpass in order for the

818
00:55:51,920 --> 00:55:57,740
ordinance to be sufficient to proceed to the governing body. So the governing

819
00:55:57,740 --> 00:56:01,800
body introduces the ordinance, comes to the master plan, to the planning board as

820
00:56:01,800 --> 00:56:07,940
the master plan gatekeepers. There's nothing wrong with saying it's a firmitively

821
00:56:07,940 --> 00:56:13,300
consistent if that is your determination but you don't have to go that high a

822
00:56:13,300 --> 00:56:18,840
You have to say that I a bar, you just have to surpass the bar of finding it not inconsistent,

823
00:56:19,440 --> 00:56:25,380
which is another way of saying it's substantially consistent, it's sufficiently consistent, and

824
00:56:25,380 --> 00:56:26,420
that's what the case law says.

825
00:56:26,940 --> 00:56:30,600
So that's generally why we give you that language at double negative.

826
00:56:31,380 --> 00:56:36,980
At certain times you may say this is dead on perfectly consistent, we want to say something

827
00:56:36,980 --> 00:56:37,440
more.

828
00:56:37,860 --> 00:56:39,740
We want to say it's affirmatively consistent.

829
00:56:39,740 --> 00:56:44,500
And you could do that, but the bar is not inconsistent,

830
00:56:44,500 --> 00:56:47,280
which is equates to substantially consistent,

831
00:56:47,320 --> 00:56:48,120
if I may one second.

832
00:56:49,280 --> 00:56:51,840
Again, now, other, as far as the language

833
00:56:51,840 --> 00:56:53,560
or the policy behind the ordinance,

834
00:56:54,100 --> 00:56:56,920
that's not necessarily our scope of authority.

835
00:56:57,420 --> 00:56:58,220
That's something different.

836
00:56:58,380 --> 00:57:02,060
You're only weighing in on the relationship to the master plan

837
00:57:02,600 --> 00:57:07,580
as you're guided by, I think we just heard he's the expert

838
00:57:07,580 --> 00:57:12,460
in some state of New Jersey, and I would agree on planning along with these colleagues.

839
00:57:14,120 --> 00:57:21,380
And can you add to that, you know, the process of evaluating consistency is very narrow,

840
00:57:22,240 --> 00:57:28,040
very, very nice, we're not changing the language, we're not rewriting anything, we only

841
00:57:28,040 --> 00:57:34,260
say whether it's consistent or not, and it was minimally consistent, you know, and we're

842
00:57:34,260 --> 00:57:35,720
learning as we go, we all are.

843
00:57:35,720 --> 00:57:40,240
Now, there may, and that's with respect, and that was based on the guidance, I believe

844
00:57:40,240 --> 00:57:45,700
you were here that day as well, Joe, not Tom, that you got from your planner.

845
00:57:46,660 --> 00:57:50,580
You don't have to follow your planner's advice, but that was the advice of the planner at

846
00:57:50,580 --> 00:57:51,020
the time.

847
00:57:51,560 --> 00:57:51,700
Okay.

848
00:57:51,900 --> 00:57:58,300
So, the question, so if the planning board thought it would create a higher risk of an undesirable

849
00:57:58,300 --> 00:58:02,040
the land use, would that have been deemed consistent?

850
00:58:03,020 --> 00:58:09,760
Ultimately, you have to look at the master plan in its entirety, take the advice from

851
00:58:09,760 --> 00:58:13,220
the planner and make a determination, for example.

852
00:58:13,740 --> 00:58:19,040
You may have one or two provisions of the master plan that you think it's inconsistent and

853
00:58:19,040 --> 00:58:24,720
maybe a few provisions that you think it's consistent with, as well as the overriding intent.

854
00:58:25,700 --> 00:58:27,200
That's a judgment call.

855
00:58:27,200 --> 00:58:29,840
I would always guide you to not listen to me.

856
00:58:30,240 --> 00:58:33,820
I'm a lawyer, listen to the planner for the advice

857
00:58:33,820 --> 00:58:38,080
as to whether it's consistent, whether it's not inconsistent

858
00:58:39,140 --> 00:58:40,700
or actually inconsistent.

859
00:58:41,580 --> 00:58:43,800
If it's inconsistent, as you may know,

860
00:58:44,440 --> 00:58:46,180
it then goes back to the governing body.

861
00:58:46,380 --> 00:58:49,020
The governing body can still proceed with the ordinance,

862
00:58:49,480 --> 00:58:50,700
but they have to do two things.

863
00:58:51,100 --> 00:58:55,260
There's a majority of the, it has to be a majority

864
00:58:55,260 --> 00:59:11,220
of the entirety of the governing body has to pass it notwithstanding the inconsistency as well as have a reasons resolution explaining why notwithstanding the planning board finding it inconsistent the governing body decide to go forward with it anyway.

865
00:59:11,220 --> 00:59:16,680
So, for the question, if this ordinance had been found by the planning board to be

866
00:59:16,680 --> 00:59:21,460
doing harm to the city, would it have passed the test?

867
00:59:22,180 --> 00:59:24,680
That, frankly, harm?

868
00:59:26,180 --> 00:59:28,040
I'm not planning to carry on with it.

869
00:59:28,160 --> 00:59:28,560
I'm not planning to carry on with it.

870
00:59:28,760 --> 00:59:30,020
We're getting the semantics here.

871
00:59:30,220 --> 00:59:35,500
If it did something against the interest of the master plan, against the good interest.

872
00:59:35,500 --> 00:59:44,280
But because you're trying to limit, and the goal number one in the master plan is to maintain the character of summer.

873
00:59:44,980 --> 00:59:45,140
Thank you.

874
00:59:45,460 --> 00:59:57,160
So, there were some attempts at limiting, you know, something that might be way out of scale, or way too noisy, or used too much water, whatever you want to list.

875
00:59:57,160 --> 00:59:59,880
which would be economic, economic benefits.

876
01:00:07,640 --> 01:00:15,220
That's why in our report, we identified, we tried to be balanced. So we did identify some benefits

877
01:00:15,750 --> 01:00:24,140
to data centers, but we focused a lot on all the negatives. And the negatives really are

878
01:00:24,140 --> 01:00:29,960
tied to some of the goals and objectives of the master plan and probably, you know, putting

879
01:00:29,960 --> 01:00:36,480
aside the negative impacts on the surrounding property owners, which this address. Probably

880
01:00:36,480 --> 01:00:41,920
the most critical one is the master plan going back to the last comprehensive master plan

881
01:00:41,920 --> 01:00:49,740
in 2000 is replete with comments about encouraging more employment opportunities in the municipality.

882
01:00:49,740 --> 01:01:00,860
So we've provided the statistics in here to show that for example, well, data centers can generate a lot of construction jobs.

883
01:01:01,680 --> 01:01:04,420
What's that bill? There's no jobs.

884
01:01:05,500 --> 01:01:12,020
And I think the numbers were, you know, they generate one job for every 5,000 square feet.

885
01:01:12,020 --> 01:01:24,840
Whereas for a warehouse use it generates one job for every 500 square feet of floor space and for office use it's like 3.3 jobs for 1000 square feet.

886
01:01:25,320 --> 01:01:37,740
So you get to see that the loss of a site to AI may generate a use that's of interest to a certain extent.

887
01:01:37,740 --> 01:01:42,460
But in terms of your master plan which says we want to encourage more employment

888
01:01:43,500 --> 01:01:45,360
This clearly is not a winner

889
01:01:46,660 --> 01:01:52,600
So you know, and therefore that's why we conclude that by prohibiting this use

890
01:01:53,240 --> 01:01:53,840
we

891
01:01:54,500 --> 01:02:03,540
Allow the opportunity for this for any tract of land to be developed with the more but our full intense use in terms of employment

892
01:02:03,540 --> 01:02:04,360
Opportunity

893
01:02:04,360 --> 01:02:06,760
And that's what the master plan is seeking

894
01:02:06,760 --> 01:02:11,220
So that's how we can conclude what we concluded that helps.

895
01:02:11,780 --> 01:02:17,460
And ultimately a consistency finding by the planning board or a not inconsistency finding

896
01:02:18,000 --> 01:02:22,440
should not be equated with the we bless the as the planning board we bless the ordinance

897
01:02:22,960 --> 01:02:26,780
because that would be beyond the scope of the planning board's authority in my opinion

898
01:02:26,780 --> 01:02:29,500
and I think legally to do it.

899
01:02:29,500 --> 01:02:32,580
We don't usurp the role of the governing body.

900
01:02:32,760 --> 01:02:35,940
The planning board is a hybrid as a little bit of legislative to it.

901
01:02:35,940 --> 01:02:40,220
and a little bit of judicial quasi-judicial quasi-legislative.

902
01:02:40,520 --> 01:02:42,640
So, but if we're going to equate to the other.

903
01:02:42,760 --> 01:02:44,460
But if we're going against the master plan,

904
01:02:44,720 --> 01:02:47,060
it would have not been approved.

905
01:02:47,260 --> 01:02:49,300
We just wait for her to have been trying to ask her question.

906
01:02:49,800 --> 01:02:52,720
I mean, this is the key point.

907
01:02:54,060 --> 01:02:54,900
Got it.

908
01:02:55,080 --> 01:02:55,340
Get it.

909
01:02:55,600 --> 01:02:59,920
Now, to follow up on something Mr. Golden had asked,

910
01:03:00,600 --> 01:03:02,480
you want to get another crack at the apple

911
01:03:02,480 --> 01:03:08,860
because assuming the governing body adopts this and introduces it from the

912
01:03:08,860 --> 01:03:13,940
seventh it comes back to this board of course for another consistency always always

913
01:03:13,940 --> 01:03:19,320
and any any lines use organs after introduction always comes back to the

914
01:03:19,320 --> 01:03:25,240
planning even if we recommend even if we write it comes back to us so up to you

915
01:03:25,240 --> 01:03:29,080
guys who wants to go now just a quick one based on everything that's being said

916
01:03:29,080 --> 01:03:32,740
So just from what Mr. Warren said, Suburgis, what I'm hearing.

917
01:03:33,280 --> 01:03:40,040
So the inconsistency review, just the premise of what we're asked to do as a planning board.

918
01:03:40,520 --> 01:03:46,340
When something like this comes before us, is it the intent in consistent or

919
01:03:46,340 --> 01:03:49,180
consistent with what the master plans goals are?

920
01:03:49,560 --> 01:03:54,440
We're not being asked to rewrite the ordinance, we're not asked to close the loopholes,

921
01:03:54,440 --> 01:03:58,240
or not asked to be legal developers, litigators,

922
01:03:58,420 --> 01:04:01,660
to try to find ways to make it worse or better

923
01:04:01,660 --> 01:04:02,400
for that matter.

924
01:04:02,820 --> 01:04:04,080
But we are asked to make a,

925
01:04:04,360 --> 01:04:07,540
based on the professionals advice in our own knowledge,

926
01:04:07,740 --> 01:04:09,460
we're being asked if it's flowing

927
01:04:09,460 --> 01:04:11,440
in the right direction that would allow us

928
01:04:11,440 --> 01:04:12,980
to make that kind of pass-falt test.

929
01:04:13,140 --> 01:04:14,760
Is that accurate statement?

930
01:04:15,100 --> 01:04:16,480
Because it's a do-a-count.

931
01:04:16,800 --> 01:04:18,860
And the, you know, the primary function

932
01:04:18,860 --> 01:04:22,580
of the consistency review is to assess the goals

933
01:04:22,580 --> 01:04:28,200
and objectives of the master plan to see how the or through afterward or proposed

934
01:04:28,200 --> 01:04:32,420
ordinance comports with those goals that objective right. Yeah that's what I

935
01:04:32,420 --> 01:04:35,300
thought. That's what I think. And now we're revisiting it unrightfully because

936
01:04:35,300 --> 01:04:39,060
of all the attention and some of the things that have come up from various

937
01:04:39,060 --> 01:04:45,940
individuals, residents, Dan, or members. I have to say I neglected to say okay

938
01:04:45,940 --> 01:04:52,200
yes, Joe. No, I commented about the conversations I had with Dan and Jennifer

939
01:04:52,200 --> 01:04:54,420
for right off the head of this conversation with Ryan

940
01:04:54,960 --> 01:04:57,500
over the weekend about the same, same issue.

941
01:04:58,140 --> 01:04:59,360
That you have to inform me.

942
01:04:59,360 --> 01:05:00,940
On the board, yes, very well.

943
01:05:01,460 --> 01:05:01,600
Yes.

944
01:05:02,380 --> 01:05:04,300
I guess with that being said, we can always provide

945
01:05:04,660 --> 01:05:04,980
recommendations.

946
01:05:05,960 --> 01:05:08,780
And the governing body has, they can either take those

947
01:05:08,780 --> 01:05:11,200
recommendations and redo them, or they can now.

948
01:05:11,900 --> 01:05:14,460
So this is sort of an after recommendation after a

949
01:05:14,460 --> 01:05:14,620
planner.

950
01:05:15,380 --> 01:05:17,460
The other thing I want to mention, I'm not sure.

951
01:05:17,600 --> 01:05:19,100
I think this is a great memo, Joe.

952
01:05:19,180 --> 01:05:20,860
And I think some of the things you caught, especially

953
01:05:23,060 --> 01:05:26,420
incorporating the computer centers as defined in all the other zones were phenomenal.

954
01:05:26,660 --> 01:05:29,500
So thank you for doing all this and Augusta, thank you for doing all your work on the

955
01:05:29,960 --> 01:05:30,320
ordinance.

956
01:05:30,880 --> 01:05:34,480
I would say, though, I know we're not talking about recommendations for the next ordinance,

957
01:05:34,660 --> 01:05:39,440
but I think unless the city really amends its noise ordinance, like if you look at right

958
01:05:39,440 --> 01:05:44,960
now in performance standards for non-residential uses, even in the vibration, it just says there

959
01:05:44,960 --> 01:05:48,980
will be no vibration, which is discernible to the human sense of feeling beyond the immediate

960
01:05:48,980 --> 01:05:53,780
site on which such is conductive. So I think we again just let's go back to

961
01:05:53,780 --> 01:05:58,000
DEP and figure out what that C level and somehow try to incorporate it into the

962
01:05:58,000 --> 01:06:03,360
next level of some ordinance whenever we change it again. We can either do a

963
01:06:03,360 --> 01:06:07,800
ordinance just for that or we either work the governing body student or add it to

964
01:06:07,800 --> 01:06:11,260
the noise ordinance make a recommendation for that. I think that needs to be okay.

965
01:06:11,700 --> 01:06:17,380
All right that was it. With regard to the memo I did have a question about whether

966
01:06:17,380 --> 01:06:27,040
it's appropriate to even have the accessory uses on page six permitted in the ORC zone,

967
01:06:27,320 --> 01:06:31,940
which is office residential character, which typically looks like little residential.

968
01:06:31,960 --> 01:06:35,340
No, but in that zone, you do permit offices.

969
01:06:36,040 --> 01:06:36,320
True.

970
01:06:36,560 --> 01:06:40,460
So, therefore, once you're permitting offices, I felt that you needed to...

971
01:06:40,460 --> 01:06:44,280
But the scale of those particular ORC zones are so tiny.

972
01:06:44,280 --> 01:06:48,340
The one change that was brought to my attention.

973
01:06:48,540 --> 01:06:50,300
Isn't the name, residential character, you know?

974
01:06:50,600 --> 01:06:52,840
So I just didn't know if that was a good fit.

975
01:06:54,280 --> 01:06:57,120
It's in your order and so I had to include it that way.

976
01:06:57,700 --> 01:07:02,520
But quite frankly, since we're going with what I'll call section V.

977
01:07:03,640 --> 01:07:03,880
Yes.

978
01:07:04,240 --> 01:07:06,740
All that is moved.

979
01:07:07,360 --> 01:07:10,160
I think this is your list of accessory structures.

980
01:07:10,680 --> 01:07:12,980
The sections where the accessory structures are allowed.

981
01:07:14,680 --> 01:07:15,120
Yeah.

982
01:07:18,260 --> 01:07:30,780
Okay. Okay. Never mind. Then fine. There is one question raised about. There's clarity. Yeah. We're not going to allow it as a primaries, but principally, but we are going to allow it as an accessory.

983
01:07:31,320 --> 01:07:31,760
Correct.

984
01:07:32,340 --> 01:07:32,560
Okay.

985
01:07:33,100 --> 01:07:33,840
I have a question.

986
01:07:34,020 --> 01:07:34,140
Okay.

987
01:07:34,260 --> 01:07:35,460
You get to page 7 about that.

988
01:07:35,680 --> 01:07:35,980
That's the same.

989
01:07:38,140 --> 01:07:40,800
In one, if I may, before.

990
01:07:41,080 --> 01:07:42,420
The prime principle is it now.

991
01:07:42,720 --> 01:07:43,740
One page 7.

992
01:07:44,760 --> 01:07:52,920
One of the exclusions from the being a data center is that the item 2A, the floor area devoted

993
01:07:52,920 --> 01:07:59,320
to such use does not exceed 20% of the gross floor area of the principal building.

994
01:07:59,320 --> 01:08:03,500
It should read of all principal buildings on site,

995
01:08:05,660 --> 01:08:09,360
or 15,000 square feet, whichever is

996
01:08:09,360 --> 01:08:09,600
less.

997
01:08:10,260 --> 01:08:16,880
It was my own page, page seven, to very bottom, to A of 20 percent's written out.

998
01:08:17,360 --> 01:08:25,980
And we had used 15,000 square feet, I had been under the impression that at Bristol

999
01:08:25,980 --> 01:08:32,860
wire squid that they have such a facility of about 12,000 square feet. Now, we could

1000
01:08:32,860 --> 01:08:38,680
just say 12,000 square feet. I used a little larger number because I wasn't sure of exactly

1001
01:08:38,680 --> 01:08:45,360
how large their feature was, but it was. Right. I heard a lot of that. I heard a lot of that

1002
01:08:45,360 --> 01:08:51,540
at 15,000. But I mean, it would be grandfathered in any way because it's pre-existing, non-conforming.

1003
01:08:51,540 --> 01:09:03,640
Yes, so and and because we've had you know ongoing neighbor discussions about even with this giant setbacks on that property whether it should be less than 15 square feet.

1004
01:09:04,100 --> 01:09:08,360
It can be I don't think it could be less than 12, though because that.

1005
01:09:09,600 --> 01:09:10,160
Thousand.

1006
01:09:10,800 --> 01:09:11,600
12,000.

1007
01:09:11,780 --> 01:09:13,620
Yes, but we'll get another shot.

1008
01:09:13,760 --> 01:09:16,300
But clearly it should have said all principal building.

1009
01:09:16,720 --> 01:09:17,600
You want to recommend 12.

1010
01:09:17,600 --> 01:09:19,400
If we get another shot, we change anything

1011
01:09:19,400 --> 01:09:22,240
or we have to go back again, so we will.

1012
01:09:22,260 --> 01:09:24,100
These are, again, recommendations in a memo

1013
01:09:24,100 --> 01:09:26,560
to remember the change in the,

1014
01:09:26,920 --> 01:09:28,660
it must have been out now.

1015
01:09:29,040 --> 01:09:31,860
Yeah, I would think we should discuss it at least

1016
01:09:31,860 --> 01:09:36,880
because that's a key number, 15 square feet.

1017
01:09:37,020 --> 01:09:39,960
I mean, it's prohibited as a principal use,

1018
01:09:40,080 --> 01:09:44,680
but for accessory uses, 20% of the gross floor area

1019
01:09:44,680 --> 01:09:47,000
of the principal building, or no-growing.

1020
01:09:47,000 --> 01:09:56,140
I know a whole principle of all prints of all Mark Yes. Yes. In the aggregate. Yeah.

1021
01:09:58,300 --> 01:09:59,960
I think 15 is reasonable.

1022
01:10:03,840 --> 01:10:07,760
I don't know, with the history there. I'm concerned should

1023
01:10:07,760 --> 01:10:14,500
be less. Any other thoughts on that? My thighs on page seven. So I'm holding my fire.

1024
01:10:17,140 --> 01:10:24,380
You're concerned about 15,000 versus 12 or 11 or 10, I actually wrote 10 because I thought it should be less than 10.

1025
01:10:24,380 --> 01:10:30,140
And bring it down based on the history of one particular site in town.

1026
01:10:30,260 --> 01:10:32,240
Right, so I agree with the giant setbacks.

1027
01:10:32,320 --> 01:10:33,080
I think we should bring it down.

1028
01:10:33,080 --> 01:10:34,480
That nobody else will probably ever have.

1029
01:10:34,860 --> 01:10:35,360
I agree with you.

1030
01:10:35,520 --> 01:10:36,580
We're going to talk about setbacks.

1031
01:10:41,180 --> 01:10:42,780
I agree if you're looking for.

1032
01:10:42,780 --> 01:10:48,980
Yeah, okay, I don't want to I don't want to hand for businesses, but on the other hand, I

1033
01:10:50,120 --> 01:10:55,420
That's a very large complex that we're talking about and they they had 11 or 12

1034
01:10:55,960 --> 01:11:01,960
I don't see it as being that a lot of people too many other other places anyway, you know being nothing remember

1035
01:11:04,820 --> 01:11:08,760
They can always come for a variance for a principle use even they can come for a variance

1036
01:11:08,760 --> 01:11:10,480
I mean people who can come for variance is for anything

1037
01:11:11,180 --> 01:11:19,640
for it does say or 20% is gross for sure true I so tell us why you think it should stay 15

1038
01:11:19,640 --> 01:11:20,000
again.

1039
01:11:20,140 --> 01:11:26,560
What if the data center for their internal use for that whole I mean it can be reduced

1040
01:11:26,560 --> 01:11:32,360
to 12 because I don't think they have okay why don't we do that then that's a compromise

1041
01:11:32,360 --> 01:11:37,200
Let's do 12, how do people feel about the 12,000 for a fee?

1042
01:11:39,200 --> 01:11:39,700
Okay.

1043
01:11:40,380 --> 01:11:49,260
I don't know just directly on that example that I sent to Mr. Berges and I got to do, I can just go real quick.

1044
01:11:50,500 --> 01:11:56,400
If we could just make it continuous building structures for the accessory use.

1045
01:11:56,400 --> 01:11:59,640
So for example, if you have a large commercial property

1046
01:11:59,640 --> 01:12:02,720
with multiple buildings and they did 12,000 now,

1047
01:12:02,720 --> 01:12:05,900
I guess it is, and they had that for an accessory use.

1048
01:12:06,440 --> 01:12:10,600
If there was multiple, 14 or 15 buildings on property,

1049
01:12:11,100 --> 01:12:13,000
we'd want that to be part of it.

1050
01:12:13,140 --> 01:12:15,940
Yeah, I actually like your language better

1051
01:12:15,940 --> 01:12:19,880
than what I just said, because I said all principal buildings

1052
01:12:19,880 --> 01:12:22,280
in the aggregate, but I'll use your language.

1053
01:12:22,700 --> 01:12:22,880
OK.

1054
01:12:23,740 --> 01:12:23,840
Yeah.

1055
01:12:24,100 --> 01:12:24,200
Cool.

1056
01:12:24,200 --> 01:12:29,520
So, this is so they don't do 10 accessory structures over and over and over and over and

1057
01:12:29,700 --> 01:12:30,140
It's good.

1058
01:12:30,780 --> 01:12:31,220
It's a good change.

1059
01:12:32,200 --> 01:12:32,940
Thank you.

1060
01:12:33,320 --> 01:12:34,680
So, what's your question?

1061
01:12:35,060 --> 01:12:42,040
So, my question is on page 7 Part B, shall we need a building structure of premises primarily

1062
01:12:42,040 --> 01:12:42,640
used?

1063
01:12:43,800 --> 01:12:45,140
Here's my problem with that language.

1064
01:12:45,520 --> 01:12:50,440
I'm not an expert on this, but I did happen to sell, I've had a client for 13 years

1065
01:12:50,440 --> 01:12:54,000
who's a cable company who does a lot of data centers.

1066
01:12:54,520 --> 01:12:57,200
And I sold seven of them last the summer.

1067
01:12:58,840 --> 01:13:06,700
And of the seven, four were buildings 60,000 to 200,000 square feet.

1068
01:13:07,820 --> 01:13:14,320
And the way the brokers and the lawyers thought of them was what's the power coming down the street up through the basement.

1069
01:13:14,540 --> 01:13:17,240
That's how they did their valuation, right?

1070
01:13:17,240 --> 01:13:21,600
The more power coming up through your basement, the more data center you can have, right?

1071
01:13:23,340 --> 01:13:30,280
But in seven of those or five of those seven buildings, they also had people.

1072
01:13:31,360 --> 01:13:36,080
They had, and I'm thinking of one in Northwest Arkansas, they had a big thing in the basement.

1073
01:13:36,900 --> 01:13:41,800
And then they had probably 200 people working on the second and third floor.

1074
01:13:42,500 --> 01:13:49,740
And if I were a smart JLL broker or a smart lawyer, I'd say, well, primarily we're

1075
01:13:49,740 --> 01:13:50,980
employing 200 people.

1076
01:13:52,340 --> 01:13:53,440
Well, no, that's not true.

1077
01:13:53,600 --> 01:13:54,940
Primarily you're having a data center.

1078
01:13:55,140 --> 01:13:57,840
We need to tighten that up.

1079
01:13:57,840 --> 01:14:00,480
We need to simply delete the word primarily.

1080
01:14:02,420 --> 01:14:02,840
Right.

1081
01:14:03,060 --> 01:14:06,720
Because what you don't want is somebody, we're all very smart.

1082
01:14:06,940 --> 01:14:09,140
But we're not as smart as the people who do this for a living.

1083
01:14:09,140 --> 01:14:15,360
And if they saw, we want to make sure that they can't do something like that, that they

1084
01:14:15,360 --> 01:14:23,680
were doing in Arkansas, because the people in Arkansas was at 200 jobs and a very loud

1085
01:14:23,680 --> 01:14:24,240
data center.

1086
01:14:24,580 --> 01:14:32,400
We don't want, I think, what I'm hearing from our community is we would rather say, very

1087
01:14:32,400 --> 01:14:37,480
sorry about these 200 jobs, but we're not letting you get around it that way.

1088
01:14:37,480 --> 01:14:39,920
And I'm just wondering, I don't know how you draft around that.

1089
01:14:39,940 --> 01:14:54,620
We use primarily because I was thinking, we're not specifically mentioning office use because we don't want to encourage just an office use, you know, to cover the data center.

1090
01:14:55,060 --> 01:14:56,440
That's how we use primarily.

1091
01:14:56,960 --> 01:14:59,580
And we thought that was a part of the effect.

1092
01:15:01,600 --> 01:15:30,060
So, we just simply delete the word primarily, and then it covers what a data center is without worrying about the issue. Great. Yeah. Very good. Thanks. All right. Thank you. Good change. Sure. Any other comments or edits suggested edits on your go? Are we good? So, I will make those edits. I will attach the

1093
01:15:32,320 --> 01:15:36,600
section B in the ordinance form to the as an appendix to this for the

1094
01:15:36,600 --> 01:15:41,560
governing body and I'll send that out tomorrow. Oh, I had one other little thing

1095
01:15:41,560 --> 01:15:42,160
here at the end.

1096
01:15:48,170 --> 01:15:53,270
Chairwoman. It's okay. Yes. I have a question for Augusto. Okay. He's

1097
01:15:53,270 --> 01:15:58,830
received separate input from residents and particularly a resident who is well

1098
01:15:58,830 --> 01:16:08,390
versed in AI technology, curious if a customer feels that those comments are reflected in this

1099
01:16:08,390 --> 01:16:09,390
kind of revised ordinance.

1100
01:16:13,030 --> 01:16:20,270
So leading up to this point, it was kind of a delicate balance of separating the, you

1101
01:16:20,270 --> 01:16:24,790
know, a subordinate use in a computer center or conventional data center server room.

1102
01:16:24,790 --> 01:16:33,550
So it's been complex in identifying the specific electrical or water utility requirements

1103
01:16:33,550 --> 01:16:41,070
that an AI data center as we envision would require its scale, size and type of technology.

1104
01:16:41,370 --> 01:16:52,490
That member of the public recommended to us that we include the specific terms of the types of AI workloads and data clusters that are used.

1105
01:16:52,490 --> 01:16:58,650
Right. Because these facilities, their real purpose is to generate and complete AI workloads,

1106
01:16:58,950 --> 01:17:03,890
right? That is what they are used for. And so we had to set the distinction that

1107
01:17:03,890 --> 01:17:12,750
the principal use is for those AI workloads, and it meets a characterization of the types

1108
01:17:12,750 --> 01:17:20,350
of water, electrical utility, heat venting systems, interior, exterior cooling systems,

1109
01:17:20,350 --> 01:17:30,710
which there was a revised draft, circulated to Joe, and today to other members of some members of council,

1110
01:17:31,710 --> 01:17:37,690
which incorporated those more technical and that technical language.

1111
01:17:38,210 --> 01:17:44,470
Now, I don't think it, it's not fair to Joe. I don't think he's had the opportunity to look at that feedback from the member of the public.

1112
01:17:45,050 --> 01:17:49,270
honestly there's a lot of cooks in the kitchen and organizing everyone so

1113
01:17:49,270 --> 01:17:54,570
quickly in such a short amount of time has certainly been a challenge but we're

1114
01:17:54,570 --> 01:18:03,990
looking to to meet it so on the side of the technology it's I wouldn't say

1115
01:18:03,990 --> 01:18:10,210
that it is here but it's something that can be easily included right because we've

1116
01:18:10,210 --> 01:18:16,570
We've been looking at this thing entirely from the perspective of a zoning officer has

1117
01:18:16,570 --> 01:18:22,390
to see the criteria and reasonably determine what is falling inside of the ban.

1118
01:18:24,190 --> 01:18:29,570
And if a zoning officer, either an administrative decision or an appeal of that

1119
01:18:29,570 --> 01:18:34,930
decision to the zoning board, can fit either an AI data center into the AI data center

1120
01:18:34,930 --> 01:18:42,810
definition or a computer center as a subordinate use to another business into those two categories.

1121
01:18:43,270 --> 01:18:45,170
That's what that's what the whole perspective was.

1122
01:18:45,830 --> 01:18:53,730
So I think that once we get that language from Joe, it would be very easy just to touch

1123
01:18:53,730 --> 01:18:59,430
based on some of those items and carry it forward to to counsel, make some of the public

1124
01:18:59,430 --> 01:19:04,410
What we submitted by this individual, I think I'll look at it tomorrow morning.

1125
01:19:04,930 --> 01:19:08,450
Yeah, I, yes, yeah, absolutely.

1126
01:19:08,750 --> 01:19:09,530
I'll have it sent.

1127
01:19:11,470 --> 01:19:12,490
So it wouldn't be an issue.

1128
01:19:12,670 --> 01:19:15,270
So some of that language was specific.

1129
01:19:15,810 --> 01:19:18,010
If we're characterizing a data center,

1130
01:19:19,770 --> 01:19:26,230
what is the technology infrastructure inside that data center?

1131
01:19:26,230 --> 01:19:29,130
or how is it defined, or how is it structured?

1132
01:19:29,830 --> 01:19:32,450
They have a cluster of graphics processing units,

1133
01:19:32,570 --> 01:19:34,430
for example, that was a line that was recommended

1134
01:19:35,550 --> 01:19:36,610
for that purpose.

1135
01:19:36,730 --> 01:19:37,490
What would you say to that?

1136
01:19:37,610 --> 01:19:41,370
The discussion we had earlier about

1137
01:19:43,330 --> 01:19:46,730
vegetable readers and how you deal with that

1138
01:19:47,770 --> 01:19:51,270
for the building official or the zoning officer

1139
01:19:51,270 --> 01:19:54,370
to understand how to collect that kind of information,

1140
01:19:54,370 --> 01:19:59,070
and evaluate it and make a decision maybe

1141
01:19:59,070 --> 01:20:03,870
beyond the scope of their ability.

1142
01:20:05,130 --> 01:20:07,530
So that's why we tried to simplify the definition

1143
01:20:07,530 --> 01:20:15,010
as we did to make sure that it can be easily analyzed

1144
01:20:15,880 --> 01:20:19,690
without having to go outside the municipality

1145
01:20:19,690 --> 01:20:22,230
and hire others to evaluate it.

1146
01:20:22,230 --> 01:20:23,730
Well, that was one of the

1147
01:20:24,710 --> 01:20:26,370
Issue areas with

1148
01:20:26,930 --> 01:20:28,310
we're trying to

1149
01:20:28,930 --> 01:20:37,010
live in between clean English understanding of how a zoning officer would apply and enforce this definition versus

1150
01:20:37,010 --> 01:20:40,590
a potential developer using

1151
01:20:41,550 --> 01:20:47,330
Different terms to define what they're putting in a building right so you don't want it to go

1152
01:20:48,030 --> 01:20:51,910
You want JLL to say, okay, not something, I'm going to go to the next town.

1153
01:20:52,450 --> 01:20:55,810
You don't draft it in such a way that it's not a trend.

1154
01:20:55,870 --> 01:20:58,050
That's what I'm saying. Let me take a look at what you said.

1155
01:20:59,290 --> 01:21:03,490
We want to have our definition be broad enough that they can't just call it something else.

1156
01:21:03,790 --> 01:21:03,990
Right.

1157
01:21:04,230 --> 01:21:04,890
And still build it.

1158
01:21:05,050 --> 01:21:05,350
Yeah.

1159
01:21:06,230 --> 01:21:07,890
I don't know.

1160
01:21:08,090 --> 01:21:14,570
If you would agree with me, Joe, with the current, the current and, you know, proposed amendments,

1161
01:21:14,570 --> 01:21:21,030
They are casting a wide net. The definition is broad and it's trying to capture as much as possible the real issue

1162
01:21:21,030 --> 01:21:24,030
We're facing right now is how do we not capture the wrong thing?

1163
01:21:25,870 --> 01:21:26,310
So

1164
01:21:27,810 --> 01:21:35,150
You know, I leave those right hand. They shouldn't the job. Let me take a look at it. She was he wrote and then he or she wrote and then how

1165
01:21:37,130 --> 01:21:39,870
He decided to stay what are we going to file tomorrow?

1166
01:21:40,790 --> 01:21:45,450
Through you, Chair, just a quick question on the zoning determinant of what it is.

1167
01:21:45,590 --> 01:21:55,550
Is that only done based on the new application, or can the zoning officer go back after

1168
01:21:55,550 --> 01:22:01,310
time if it's determined that based on the criteria, something changes, and it appears

1169
01:22:01,310 --> 01:22:04,490
to meet the principal use in any definition by the way.

1170
01:22:04,490 --> 01:22:10,910
So do we as it's that you're only going to know after it's built and running and you have a chance to audit it

1171
01:22:10,910 --> 01:22:14,990
So you have like a one shot at it. Is that and not I'm well

1172
01:22:14,990 --> 01:22:16,450
There's two ways to look at it

1173
01:22:16,450 --> 01:22:20,390
So if we're by setting a new definition on something that's prohibited

1174
01:22:20,390 --> 01:22:26,190
Yeah, the zoning officer wouldn't particularly be going back to look and see for enforcement matters

1175
01:22:26,190 --> 01:22:29,870
He would just be prompted that when there is a new development application

1176
01:22:30,430 --> 01:22:36,450
then he would be using that definition at the time with the time of the application against that.

1177
01:22:36,810 --> 01:22:47,070
So if there was like an application for just data, just sorry, warehouses and that was the principal use.

1178
01:22:47,810 --> 01:22:53,830
And then six months later they started putting, I know that that's part of what came up and some of the other feedback.

1179
01:22:54,310 --> 01:22:58,070
And they started to kind of convert it with that, like basically.

1180
01:22:58,070 --> 01:22:59,090
They should get a permit.

1181
01:22:59,190 --> 01:23:03,630
Yeah, with that issue, a permitting thing that would come through to be captured in the principal use.

1182
01:23:03,730 --> 01:23:08,310
If we assume that the person who owns this warehouse is very trustworthy,

1183
01:23:08,570 --> 01:23:13,590
they would file a permit to retrofit the space and that would trigger a change of use because

1184
01:23:13,590 --> 01:23:19,090
identifiably, from the son of criteria that exists in the adopted definition and

1185
01:23:19,090 --> 01:23:24,130
this new definition, the zoning officer would say, well, on these plans, you're demonstrating

1186
01:23:24,710 --> 01:23:26,590
high density servers right over here.

1187
01:23:26,590 --> 01:23:33,490
You know, this is what you mark them on your plans as, your identifying closed loop cooling system,

1188
01:23:33,710 --> 01:23:36,570
your identifying intensive HVAC system.

1189
01:23:37,010 --> 01:23:42,130
And the next step is the zoning officer would generally call the applicant and say,

1190
01:23:42,210 --> 01:23:44,090
okay, when you're putting in here, what is the technology?

1191
01:23:44,570 --> 01:23:45,990
There's an entire line of questioning.

1192
01:23:47,150 --> 01:23:49,170
There's tremendous back and forth at times.

1193
01:23:49,650 --> 01:23:54,250
And then the zoning officer would just render a decision on that development application to say,

1194
01:23:54,250 --> 01:23:56,750
OK, well, you're denying you're going to the zoning board

1195
01:23:57,190 --> 01:23:59,650
or he's made the reason for the determination

1196
01:23:59,650 --> 01:24:02,390
that it doesn't fit the category of an AI data center.

1197
01:24:02,570 --> 01:24:06,750
So those situations get caught in the administrative process.

1198
01:24:07,770 --> 01:24:12,930
And so what this adopted and proposed revised ordinance

1199
01:24:13,490 --> 01:24:17,650
is just trying to make it simpler, fit into the niches,

1200
01:24:18,050 --> 01:24:20,290
understand that we want to preserve the server room

1201
01:24:20,290 --> 01:24:27,350
and give the zoning officer, future zoning officers a clear avenue for interpretation.

1202
01:24:27,930 --> 01:24:32,430
There's been a lot of concern to say that, well, there's been a large misunderstanding to

1203
01:24:32,430 --> 01:24:36,710
think that, oh, if someone doesn't fall into one of the criteria that their

1204
01:24:36,710 --> 01:24:39,750
example is somehow permitted, it's like that's never the case, right?

1205
01:24:41,710 --> 01:24:43,190
Yeah, no, so that means that's true.

1206
01:24:43,450 --> 01:24:46,610
Yeah, that's really helpful, it's talked about like the conversion process would

1207
01:24:46,610 --> 01:24:52,710
basically it would show itself through permits and applications and that's how that's

1208
01:24:52,710 --> 01:24:53,390
part those.

1209
01:24:54,270 --> 01:25:01,510
Realistically, if I wanted to take a completely separate example, we run into situations

1210
01:25:01,510 --> 01:25:07,850
where let's say there was an office use which did not have a commercial kitchen before and

1211
01:25:07,850 --> 01:25:11,250
then an applicant comes in and says I want to put in a commercial kitchen.

1212
01:25:11,310 --> 01:25:15,750
We've gotten into the line of questioning with that applicant to say all right well who's

1213
01:25:15,750 --> 01:25:19,910
your commercial kitchen serving, is it subordinate to the office use for employees only?

1214
01:25:20,770 --> 01:25:21,770
Yeah, exactly.

1215
01:25:21,910 --> 01:25:28,650
You can put it to the test administratively, and based on that, the sum of that zoning

1216
01:25:28,650 --> 01:25:31,210
criminal application, we would know where to send them to.

1217
01:25:31,390 --> 01:25:40,150
So in this case, we determined, well, you have an office use your, say, a financial industry,

1218
01:25:40,290 --> 01:25:44,770
a financial services company, but now you're serving food after the general public in a cafeteria

1219
01:25:44,770 --> 01:25:46,450
or you're one that's not just for your employees,

1220
01:25:46,630 --> 01:25:48,450
because a lot of you'll get a variance, right?

1221
01:25:48,610 --> 01:25:49,410
You see, that's right.

1222
01:25:49,450 --> 01:25:50,250
So, thank you.

1223
01:25:50,550 --> 01:25:51,150
You're a big help.

1224
01:25:51,670 --> 01:25:53,650
You know, this is a standard process.

1225
01:25:54,270 --> 01:25:54,390
Yeah.

1226
01:25:55,110 --> 01:25:57,270
There's a famous case in Hasbro, right?

1227
01:25:57,650 --> 01:26:00,530
I think you're probably now where the applicant

1228
01:26:00,530 --> 01:26:04,730
was proposing a restaurant with an attendant entertainment.

1229
01:26:04,990 --> 01:26:05,490
Oh, yeah.

1230
01:26:06,550 --> 01:26:07,670
No, no, it was a strip club.

1231
01:26:08,530 --> 01:26:10,670
Or the co-hibit is.

1232
01:26:10,970 --> 01:26:11,930
It's kind of a story.

1233
01:26:12,510 --> 01:26:13,290
It's a, okay.

1234
01:26:13,290 --> 01:26:14,530
That wasn't New York's trip.

1235
01:26:14,730 --> 01:26:15,070
That's right.

1236
01:26:15,310 --> 01:26:16,030
That's what it was.

1237
01:26:16,290 --> 01:26:16,570
State.

1238
01:26:17,230 --> 01:26:17,950
It was great.

1239
01:26:18,650 --> 01:26:19,390
It was good for me.

1240
01:26:19,790 --> 01:26:23,630
OK, so next thing on our agenda, we're all good, right?

1241
01:26:24,250 --> 01:26:28,350
Next thing on our agenda is, well,

1242
01:26:28,410 --> 01:26:30,830
do we have to do anything official, like as far as you're

1243
01:26:30,830 --> 01:26:31,550
going to finish this?

1244
01:26:31,750 --> 01:26:32,410
We don't have to.

1245
01:26:32,890 --> 01:26:33,390
No, this is out.

1246
01:26:33,390 --> 01:26:34,390
You're just going to forward it up.

1247
01:26:34,390 --> 01:26:36,910
I'm just going to kind of go aggressive sometimes tomorrow.

1248
01:26:37,170 --> 01:26:39,370
I'm going to go forward it to the government.

1249
01:26:39,730 --> 01:26:42,450
It's going to be addressed to the governing body and go forward.

1250
01:26:42,450 --> 01:26:45,230
No, I just wanted to thank everybody for their input to this.

1251
01:26:45,630 --> 01:26:47,850
The interest is to protect some of it.

1252
01:26:47,850 --> 01:26:49,150
That's been the interest from the beginning.

1253
01:26:49,470 --> 01:26:52,230
We appreciate the collaboration and it's valuable.

1254
01:26:52,590 --> 01:26:53,330
Thank you.

1255
01:26:53,810 --> 01:26:54,890
Nice to collaborate.

1256
01:26:55,670 --> 01:26:57,930
All right, so that's what we're here for.

1257
01:26:58,810 --> 01:27:01,510
We have to go into executive session.

1258
01:27:02,250 --> 01:27:03,630
I can do a quick resolution.

1259
01:27:03,830 --> 01:27:04,690
Yes, go for it.

1260
01:27:04,830 --> 01:27:08,670
Madam Chair, it's necessary for the planning board of the city

1261
01:27:08,670 --> 01:27:11,110
summit to discuss in a session, not over to the public.

1262
01:27:11,110 --> 01:27:19,130
look certain matters, authorized by the Open Public Meetings Act, specifically pending litigation,

1263
01:27:19,650 --> 01:27:21,990
attorney-climbed privilege discussion of pending litigation,

1264
01:27:22,670 --> 01:27:24,990
tatlock community preservation association,

1265
01:27:25,730 --> 01:27:33,030
the City of Summit at L, docket number, well, UNN L-4748-25, it's been consolidated,

1266
01:27:33,630 --> 01:27:38,450
as well as pending litigation in the matter of the application of the City of Summit,

1267
01:27:38,450 --> 01:27:43,170
that docket number UNN, DASH, L, DASH 3, 10, DASH 25.

1268
01:27:44,230 --> 01:27:47,190
It's anticipated deliberations conducted in closed session,

1269
01:27:47,330 --> 01:27:49,330
maybe disclosed to the public upon determination.

1270
01:27:49,870 --> 01:27:52,610
By the board that the public interest is no longer required

1271
01:27:52,610 --> 01:27:55,230
to be served by such confidentiality

1272
01:27:55,660 --> 01:27:58,190
and this resolution shall take effect immediately.

1273
01:27:59,270 --> 01:28:02,450
So if we are going into executive session,

1274
01:28:02,610 --> 01:28:04,390
now Madam Chair, we should have a motion,

1275
01:28:04,570 --> 01:28:06,530
second, and roll, roll, roll on that resolution.

1276
01:28:06,530 --> 01:28:07,650
So moved.

1277
01:28:07,750 --> 01:28:08,210
I have a motion.

1278
01:28:08,830 --> 01:28:09,130
So moved.

1279
01:28:09,390 --> 01:28:09,570
Second.

1280
01:28:11,150 --> 01:28:11,590
Second.

1281
01:28:11,790 --> 01:28:11,950
Sorry.

1282
01:28:12,130 --> 01:28:12,770
Thank you.

1283
01:28:13,230 --> 01:28:15,210
And I have to act this, right?

1284
01:28:15,570 --> 01:28:15,870
Roll.

1285
01:28:16,490 --> 01:28:17,190
Go ahead.

1286
01:28:17,710 --> 01:28:18,650
We're going to make, go.

1287
01:28:18,830 --> 01:28:19,090
Yes.

1288
01:28:19,490 --> 01:28:20,730
Mr. Dumas will work a little harder.

1289
01:28:21,090 --> 01:28:21,570
Adjunct.

1290
01:28:23,990 --> 01:28:24,950
Bored Secretary.

1291
01:28:25,970 --> 01:28:26,450
Impromptu.

1292
01:28:26,590 --> 01:28:28,610
Vice-chair Hamlet.

1293
01:28:29,350 --> 01:28:29,490
Yes.

1294
01:28:30,110 --> 01:28:30,570
Ms. Bowman.

1295
01:28:30,870 --> 01:28:30,990
Yes.

1296
01:28:32,370 --> 01:28:33,150
Councillor Remember.

1297
01:28:33,370 --> 01:28:33,810
Chris Fouley.

1298
01:28:34,330 --> 01:28:34,570
Yes.

1299
01:28:34,570 --> 01:28:34,690
Yes?

1300
01:28:35,830 --> 01:28:36,570
Myself, aye.

1301
01:28:38,310 --> 01:28:39,090
Mr. Feldman.

1302
01:28:39,350 --> 01:28:39,510
Yes.

1303
01:28:40,070 --> 01:28:40,350
It's Morrison.

1304
01:28:40,790 --> 01:28:40,990
Yes.

1305
01:28:41,670 --> 01:28:42,350
Mr. Stern.

1306
01:28:42,610 --> 01:28:43,250
Oh, so apologies.

1307
01:28:43,470 --> 01:28:44,010
He's excused.

1308
01:28:44,170 --> 01:28:44,650
Mr. Stanton.

1309
01:28:44,910 --> 01:28:45,150
Yes.

1310
01:28:45,390 --> 01:28:45,870
Mr. Golden.

1311
01:28:46,170 --> 01:28:46,330
Yes.

1312
01:28:47,230 --> 01:28:48,190
Chair, Balson Alvers.

1313
01:28:48,410 --> 01:28:48,510
Yes.

1314
01:28:49,230 --> 01:28:49,510
Okay.

1315
01:28:50,070 --> 01:28:51,330
All right.

1316
01:28:51,550 --> 01:28:52,110
So we are entering.