[This transcript was generated automatically from audio using AI and hasn't been reviewed by a person -- it can contain mistakes, including plausible-sounding sentences that were never actually said. Treat it as a starting point, not a verbatim record.]

[0:02] Welcome, everyone to the planning board meeting, August 17th. We're going to start the pledge of allegiance.
[0:12] I have the adequate notice statement.
[0:32] In accordance with New Jersey statute 10, colon 4-10,
[0:35] adequate notice of this meeting has been provided to the publications of record and has been
[0:40] posted here in City Hall. For the benefit of the interested public, this meeting is being
[0:44] live streamed to the City's YouTube page and also broadcast on Summit's Government channel,
[0:49] which is Comcast Channel 34 and Verizon Channel 30. Any hearings on applications for development
[0:54] in this meeting are quasi-judicial proceedings. Any questions or comments must be limited to the
[0:59] issues that are relevant to what the Board may legally consider in reaching a decision and
[1:03] The court will appropriate to a judicial hearing must be maintained at all times.
[1:07] Please note that fire exits are to my right, you're left, and at the back of the room where
[1:11] you entered.
[1:12] The city has a listening system to assist the hearing impaired.
[1:15] If anyone needs hearing assistance, please obtain a necessary equipment here at the
[1:18] day as in return immediately after our meeting.
[1:22] Thank you.
[1:23] Good to meet you.
[1:23] Good to meet you.
[1:25] Chair Bulls Navarra's.
[1:27] Vice Chair Hamlet.
[1:29] Ms. Bowen.
[1:30] Yes.
[1:30] Council Member Chrisifoli.
[1:32] Yes.
[1:32] Mr. Tomasso, Mr. Phelma is excused, Ms. Morrison, Mr. Stern, Mr. Stonton, Mr. Golden, you have a
[1:43] forum.
[1:43] You may proceed.
[1:44] Thank you very much.
[1:45] We have an application tonight.
[1:47] Before we start, I've asked Nancy home to make a few comments just to set the stage, and
[1:54] then we'll follow up.
[1:56] But before we do Madam Chair, I believe we have a recusal.
[1:59] Oh, look, nice.
[2:01] So the record reflects that the board member Delmaso remains
[2:06] reduced from this matter.
[2:07] He recused himself last time.
[2:10] Thank you.
[2:13] It's all right.
[2:17] Can everyone hear me?
[2:18] OK.
[2:19] Good afternoon.
[2:20] Everyone, planning board chair.
[2:24] Thank you very much for the floor.
[2:25] My name is Nancy Home.
[2:27] I am from Serenian Edwards, Boozak, and Nolan.
[2:29] I represent the city of Summit with regard
[2:32] to affordable housing matters. By way of background, the OE 190 River Road application before
[2:40] the planning board is part of the city's fourth round housing element in fair share plan,
[2:45] as was amended in March of 26. Because it was included in the city's plan, which is as required
[2:52] by the Fair Housing Act, the city was obligated to create a realistic opportunity for the construction
[2:59] of the project, which included adopting zoning so that the applicant can come directly to the
[3:04] planning board for site plan approval with minimal variances. This zoning was required to be adopted
[3:10] by March 15th, 2026 in accordance with the amended Fair Housing Act, which was amended in 2024,
[3:17] prior to the fourth round beginning. That zoning was adopted in accordance with the Fair Housing Act.
[3:25] Thank you, too. Thank you. And Steve, did you have anything to do with this?
[3:31] Certainly, just to be clear, this is a quasi-judicial proceeding as our Board Secretary
[3:36] previously stated, all that the planning board is considering this evening and throughout
[3:42] these hearings, if they go beyond this evening, is this particular application for development
[3:48] as proposed on this one and only site 190 River Road.
[3:55] So other aspects of affordable housing, the fair share plan,
[4:02] other aspects of settlement agreements or other components of the city's
[4:07] fourth round plan, those are not what is at issue in this application.
[4:12] And it is simply, and I don't mean that, to mean that it's a modest issue, but it is solely
[4:22] the development application on 190 River Road.
[4:27] That's it, issue.
[4:27] And the applicant presents it.
[4:29] They have the burden of proof, members of the public can ask questions, at the end,
[4:33] make comments under oath, and then the board will deliberate vote, whether it's the
[4:38] evening or another evening.
[4:40] Okay.
[4:40] Thank you.
[4:41] And the way we proceed is the applicant brings up different experts, such as their architect, their engineer, etc., and each one will provide their testimony and then the board members will ask questions in an orderly fashion to each expert and then the public will have a chance to ask questions of those experts each one going along in order.
[5:07] So that's how we'll proceed.
[5:10] So are you ready?
[5:10] Ready, go.
[5:17] Okay.
[5:18] Good evening Madam Chair.
[5:19] Members of the Board.
[5:20] Members of the Public Professionals, Jason Tudal, on behalf of the applicant.
[5:25] As the Board is aware, this is a site plan application for 190 River Road.
[5:30] It's for a multifamily development.
[5:32] We were here back in July, I believe it was July 27, so it's only been about three weeks
[5:37] since we've been here.
[5:38] at that meeting, the board, her testimony from our civil engineer, Robert Frood.
[5:44] We went through the site plan extensively, and there were some comments that were made
[5:48] by members of the board, by members of the public, that we hope to also address this evening
[5:52] as well.
[5:54] So, the game plan this evening, and I'll talk also about some of the items we resubmitted.
[5:59] So, I'm going to call up our traffic engineer Craig Paragoy to start this evening, and the
[6:05] reason I'm doing that is as follows.
[6:07] If the board recalls one of the main points of one of the main topics that the last meeting was the size of the loading area,
[6:16] which actually we needed relief from as part of the application.
[6:20] And the board expressed some concern about the size of that loading area and how it would interplay with emergency service vehicles.
[6:27] So what we did in the meantime, we didn't receive a full site plan set, but we submitted a site plan exhibit that modified that loading area.
[6:36] But it now complies, and we've also demonstrated how emergency service vehicles can go through
[6:41] that.
[6:42] So I'm going to have Mr. Paraguay as part of his traffic testimony, incorporate that as an
[6:47] extensive part of it because it was something brought up by the board and by the public
[6:51] at the last meeting.
[6:52] He'll also go through trip generation, parking, and all the other facets of traffic engineering,
[6:57] but I just wanted to let you know that he was going to focus on that area.
[7:01] In addition to that, there was a crosswalk, a mid-block crosswalk that was initially proposed.
[7:07] We thought that was something that the city may have wanted to the golf course property across the street.
[7:12] We have eliminated that because the board had also expressed some concern about the mid-block crosswalks.
[7:17] So I'll have Craig go over those items as part of his testimony.
[7:22] The one other revision that we made that was also based on some public comment was,
[7:26] If you know the loading area that we're proposing is adjacent.
[7:31] There were some comments, although we don't expect a lot of loading activity. This isn't a retail establishment, a supermarket, an industrial type property.
[7:41] But there was a fair comment made about the visibility of that loading area from the street.
[7:47] So we did incorporate as part of our revision. So the landscaping that will now buffer that area even further and make it hopefully not visible from the right of where from the adjacent streets.
[7:58] So, I'm going to have Craig go over that very briefly as far to his testimony, but then the next witness will be our landscape architect, Tom Bauer, so he will go through the entirety of the landscaping proposed for this project, some of the green infrastructure that we're proposing, there's a green roof as part of the application, so he'll go through that in great detail.
[8:20] Then if we, the further we get along, we'll have our project architect, we'll obviously go through the building elevations, the building floor plans, and then our final witness as always will be our professional planner.
[8:31] We've eliminated a good portion of the variances as part of this application. There weren't many to begin with, obviously, but they're really down to signage at this point.
[8:41] Some others, but mainly as it relates to the signage.
[8:43] So with that, Madam Chair, I'd like to call Mr. Paraguay, sorry.
[8:48] I was just going to ask Chair if I could just address a predicate matter because the applicant did re-notice.
[8:56] So I want to put that on the record. Frankly, it was not required.
[9:01] But there's no penalty for providing more notice than it's required.
[9:06] the penalty if you provide less notice than is required.
[9:11] As you might imagine, so I did have an opportunity to review the notice that the second notice that was provided specifically for this evening.
[9:18] The content was sufficient, it was timely served and published, certified mail and published both on August 7th.
[9:24] If I got it correct, both of which are at least 10 days prior to this evening.
[9:28] So, the board continues to have jurisdiction to hear and decide the application, and at the last hearing on the record applicants council at my request gave the board an extension of time to act through the end of September just in case.
[9:46] So, we have that as well. So, the board can proceed knowing it has jurisdiction.
[9:54] The one other thing I wanted to mention is we have other business that, you know, we have
[9:58] another applicant waiting for the resolution that we have to go over and approve tonight
[10:02] and minutes. So we're going to try and stop at 1030 so I can get through as much as you can
[10:08] by 1030 and then we'll do our other business. Okay, I guess the other, the only other ministerial item
[10:14] that I just wanted to make sure was on the record. The board did request to do a side visit,
[10:18] members of the board that did take place as far as I'm aware, and so I just wanted to
[10:23] make sure that that was on the records on as well.
[10:25] And if I may Madam Chair, that the site visits by the board members were less than
[10:31] well less than a quorum and in any group that visited the site and there was no communication
[10:36] next part of the communications with any representatives of the applicant or anyone else for
[10:40] that matter other than for limited to purposes of a directional pointing as to what is where
[10:47] will be as proposed for where. That's all consistent with the municipal land. You
[10:52] slow off and the governing case law and frankly encouraged our board members do make visits.
[10:57] They also make for lack of a better term and I wish I could think of a better term. I call them
[11:02] drive-by's to visit to sea sites as well. So our board members who are volunteer board members
[11:09] do quite a bit of work both before, during and after these hearings that you see them at.
[11:14] So I want to throw a little who knows to our board members for their volunteer service and I'll stop there.
[11:20] Take it away.
[11:21] Okay. So I'd like to call our first witness of this evening, Craig Paragoy, who's our traffic engineer with dynamic traffic.
[11:32] Y'all, I'm sorry.
[11:33] You weren't with us last time. You didn't get sworn in last time.
[11:36] Okay.
[11:36] Yeah, I did. There you go. I wasn't wrong.
[11:41] You remain under oath.
[11:43] I don't think I've ever seen somebody willingly doing it.
[11:45] That's right.
[11:46] I'm sorry, you're still there.
[11:47] There you go.
[11:48] There you go.
[11:49] Correct.
[11:49] If you were sworn in, if you can go to your credentials and you're like this.
[11:53] The record for professional background education, the background license is held.
[11:58] A spirit is tested upon before similar reports on the state of your certificate.
[12:02] Sure.
[12:02] I have a bachelor's degree in civil engineering from Virginia Tech.
[12:05] I'm a licensed professional engineer in New Jersey.
[12:07] As you can tell, I testify pretty much in a nightly basis.
[12:11] As an expert in traffic, including here in summit many, many times in the past.
[12:16] Thank you.
[12:20] So just for points of reference,
[12:22] if we do introduce another exhibit based on light,
[12:25] look, review of the transcript,
[12:27] which you can see,
[12:29] that's what we're just like,
[12:30] we're up to eight, four,
[12:32] as it would be the next light,
[12:33] but once it's introduced.
[12:35] So press,
[12:36] as part of your testimony,
[12:37] I'd like you to break it down into several components,
[12:41] so that the board and the public are aware,
[12:43] and you can take them any word
[12:44] Please.
[12:46] Sure consideration.
[12:47] Side circumution, including what I spoke about, if you'd hear him, and if you'd also
[12:51] describe the parking on side, that would be really appreciate it.
[12:55] Sure.
[12:56] I guess we'll start with the fire truck circulations that you've brought up with the loadings
[13:00] on.
[13:00] The loadings on.
[13:01] Those TV's working with those TV's on.
[13:04] I don't know.
[13:05] Oh.
[13:06] We may be checking on that right now, I'm guessing.
[13:10] Any one side of the room you're on, it may not matter.
[13:21] Thank you.
[13:22] I
[13:24] take them.
[13:25] This is my must see television.
[13:29] Everybody can see.
[13:34] That's it.
[13:35] We're having some of your head.
[13:38] No signal.
[13:40] This will all be focused in that direction.
[13:44] Okay.
[13:44] For those of you at home, we were just waiting for other monitors to.
[13:47] This is really all I have is this one.
[13:50] Okay.
[13:51] And just for the work.
[13:52] This was.
[13:53] Yeah.
[13:53] I think there's an advantage of what's happening.
[13:57] Yeah, I'm so proud to be able to identify this building.
[13:59] Yeah, this is called Fire Truck Circulation Exhibit.
[14:02] It's day to day today.
[14:06] And if you recall, at last meeting,
[14:09] we had the loading zone that was right
[14:11] as you come in off of the road to the left of the garage door.
[14:14] And it was a little narrower
[14:16] and the board expressed concern for well, for two reasons.
[14:19] It didn't meet the requirements of the door,
[14:21] which is 12 by 60 loathings on it now does and this exhibit.
[14:25] Can you slow that down there?
[14:26] Yeah, 12 by 60s required, so it now meets that requirement, and the other concern was
[14:32] and rightfully so we knew that it would work fine with passenger cars and everyday traffic,
[14:37] but if a fire truck were to try to get in there, would it work?
[14:41] So we wanted to do two things here, we made that loadings on a little bit wider, simply
[14:46] by bumping out the dry vial closer to River Road, gives you the clearance, and then this
[14:52] truck, the yellow path there that you can see is the turning path of a fire truck that
[14:57] could get in with.
[15:12] And we're showing you two trucks now sitting in this loading zone, which I, you know, will be almost never occur. And the fire truck is able to make the swing and get past them. So I think that was pretty good suggestion. By the board, we were fairly easily able to accommodate it as you can see here.
[15:30] Sorry, you didn't have to talk.
[15:32] Yeah, you don't do that.
[15:33] Oh my God.
[15:34] Oh my God.
[15:34] Yeah, that helps too.
[15:36] Yeah, help.
[15:38] So everyone can do it.
[15:41] So that's the, that's, that's the pretty picture that I have.
[15:44] No, the rest of it is the edge of your seed traffic testimony, which I will try to say.
[15:48] The third was that a fire truck could not make that turn.
[15:51] If there was a moving van there or a garbage truck there, which is also going to be happening in the allocation.
[15:57] And it's now lighter and will allow for five to three to get back.
[16:02] Exactly, right.
[16:04] And obviously with that.
[16:07] I know I shouldn't be talking.
[16:08] I should be waiting to be done.
[16:12] Just a quick question.
[16:13] Can you just point out the emergency access on the other side of the building?
[16:18] Yeah.
[16:19] The emergency driveway is this other driveway?
[16:23] I'm just having a hard time figuring out in my head where that.
[16:26] So that's coming off of, that's the one that DEP required?
[16:34] So you're going to watch through all of the exits and all of the circulation.
[16:37] Yep.
[16:38] And I'll go ahead.
[16:39] No, I just thought you're moving on to that other stuff.
[16:42] All right.
[16:42] We'll stick with the plan for now.
[16:44] I know this was testified to the last meeting,
[16:46] which is to refresh everybody's memory.
[16:49] Essentially, the existing driveway that serve the office building
[16:52] is going to remain as the main driveway, which then provides a
[16:55] shot into the lower levels of the parking garage.
[17:00] This secondary access is actually two requirements.
[17:03] The DEP requires it and RSI has, if you provide more than 100 parking spaces,
[17:08] once a secondary means of access for EEP emergencies,
[17:11] or a boulevard, which doesn't really make sense here.
[17:14] So it serves two purposes as this emergency access.
[17:18] This side of River Road, because it serves as a sort of a
[17:23] Doug Handle for the state highway is actually under NJDOT jurisdiction, so we have an application
[17:29] pending with them for this emergency driveway. We've yet to receive comments back, but
[17:35] like I said, it's the requirement of two separate agencies. It's not something that they're really
[17:39] going to be able to push back on, it's just the matter of how it's going to look at the end of the day.
[17:43] So how did you see and the county?
[17:47] Yes, in the county, the county on the, it's very strange. The county's jurisdiction is the
[17:52] northbound side of River Road and DOTs is the southbound. Okay, yeah.
[18:02] Just as many review
[18:03] agencies as we can possibly fit in here we're trying to do. Is it Mars County somewhere
[18:07] right around there also? Probably, you know, Mars County is right across the street. Yeah, I've
[18:13] right across the street. I'm quite okay. Yeah, but we're not, we're not proposing anything
[18:18] there so they're not involved necessarily in this.
[18:23] Okay, so now I want to
[18:26] the traffic study. We submitted a traffic
[18:28] impacts that he dated April 29th, 2026.
[18:32] I'll take you through the highlights of that.
[18:34] Sorry, time out. Does anybody have any questions on the fire
[18:38] lanes and the circulation around for fire safety?
[18:44] I have a quick question if you consider
[18:48] bad things happen.
[18:51] And what if there's also some flooding going on
[18:54] Is that all possible as well?
[18:57] That's why the secondary driveway is there because if that's out of where it would be flooded
[19:02] But the purpose here was if the fire truck was responding and there wasn't a flood
[19:06] They're going to go into the main driveway and if there was a loading vehicle there
[19:11] They would have been dead. Do you want to point to that?
[19:13] So they understand where the secondary driveway is?
[19:15] The secondary driveway. It's closer to this connector road between River Road and JFK Parkway
[19:20] And it's that would be high and dry
[19:23] That's the reason that one of the reasons we're fighting and we should have I think we said this the last time
[19:28] But you reminded me of something you did show this plan to the fire official and work through
[19:33] Comments with that with that department correct. Yes. Is that in our packets?
[19:38] Yeah, it should be there was a fire department common letter actually just before the last meeting
[19:42] Miss Bowman they issued an updated letter saying that they were satisfied with the but the design
[19:49] But they haven't seen these changes that you just know that we just that we enhance the no that
[19:54] They could have been circulated, but we don't have a review letter on that.
[19:59] I just have questions on them.
[20:01] If you're doing it later, I can wait.
[20:03] But I'm assuming the fire truck reach, you'll get two later.
[20:07] Yeah, Mr. Fruit did that at the last meeting, but we can go over that again.
[20:10] That's fine.
[20:11] Okay.
[20:11] On the opposite side of the building.
[20:13] On the opposite side, I just had a question.
[20:14] But if you're doing it later, I can wait.
[20:16] Do you want to wait?
[20:17] It's up to you.
[20:18] If I know the answer, I'll try.
[20:20] Um, can you just confirm, sorry, how did up your summer?
[20:26] The, um, from Jate Parkway and River Road,
[20:30] it's 85 feet to the building.
[20:32] So is that, is the fire truck reach to the patio
[20:39] and will there, I guess, with that being said,
[20:42] would ground that or speed me in addition to that?
[20:47] Where exactly, if you're talking about this connector road,
[20:51] they'd be able to get on.
[20:51] Yeah, JFK Parkway and River Road.
[20:54] Yeah, they'd be able to get on to the site.
[20:55] You can see where you're sitting right here,
[20:56] right at the front door.
[20:58] The concern was more, if they needed to get elsewhere
[21:01] around the side of the building.
[21:03] And my understanding is that I wasn't necessarily
[21:05] directly involved those discussions with Mr. Frude.
[21:09] They looked at the latter height, and we're
[21:12] able to satisfy the fire department
[21:13] that they could access the building from those other roadways.
[21:16] But from where you're talking about, where we're
[21:18] far away, the truck get on site right there.
[21:20] like basically where you're sitting on this image.
[21:26] I'd just remind everybody.
[21:27] In addition, the change in the front prior,
[21:34] the applicant added another eager,
[21:37] grass stairs.
[21:37] My understanding that satisfied a lot
[21:39] of the fire departments.
[21:42] Yeah, that's correct.
[21:43] We had Mr. Food testified at that
[21:44] at the last meeting,
[21:45] but I can also have the architect
[21:47] reiterate that when he's going through the building.
[21:48] Right.
[21:49] Just want to make sure it's safe.
[21:50] Yeah, that's fine.
[21:51] Yeah.
[21:51] We've added this with the fire department for several months.
[21:56] So do we have any other questions on this topic before we get to general traffic?
[22:00] This kind of different light of.
[22:02] Thank you for covering it.
[22:04] I think we do not.
[22:05] So let's go.
[22:06] Well, I guess maybe I'll answer my question right away.
[22:07] Is the 85 feet to the patio to the building?
[22:10] Like, which part are you measuring the 85 feet from?
[22:12] I guess.
[22:13] We'll have to.
[22:14] If you don't have the answer now.
[22:15] If you want to answer that at the next meeting.
[22:19] Yeah, or I can have Mr. Food come back later and just
[22:21] have to answer that.
[22:26] Okay, I'll enter the traffic impact slide attention.
[22:30] And we are traffic impact analysis. We started as we typically do with any traffic impact study. We took traffic counts. We looked at the existing driveway, and though it wasn't very active, and the golf course driveway across the street.
[22:46] And then the two ends of that river road, connector, road, the signalized intersection at JFK Parkway, and then the the the ramp where it comes in and meets our front edge portion of river road.
[22:57] So we took traffic counts there from 7 to 9 and 4 to 6, 30 on a weekday.
[23:05] We're looking for the busiest hour within those two windows of time.
[23:09] And what we do?
[23:10] Can you repeat the times?
[23:11] Yes, 7 to 9 in the morning and 4 to 6, 30 in the evening.
[23:16] I think the document says 4, 30, just 6.
[23:22] It's 4 to 6, 30.
[23:23] Okay.
[23:28] Just for your information, you know, we pick the busiest hour within there, we're looking
[23:32] for the peak hour here, the day that we counted, it would vary day-to-day, but it was
[23:36] 745 in the morning, 745 to 845 in the morning, and 445 to 545 in the evening
[23:43] was the busiest single hour.
[23:45] And then what we really want to do is assume that this building is going to generate its
[23:48] traffic during that exact same power. So we're looking at a worst-case scenario. And obviously when
[23:53] you're talking about a residential building, that's going to be when it's peak time is. People
[23:59] leaving for work in the morning coming back in the evening. You'll have traffic in and out there
[24:03] out the day, but when you're going to see the heaviest hourly volumes will be of those time periods.
[24:09] We also need to take into account future growth. New Jersey DOT for the serial publishes a growth rate
[24:15] of 2.25% per year.
[24:17] So those traffic volumes that we counted,
[24:19] we increased it by that times three years.
[24:22] But I went back and looked at the historical data.
[24:25] DOT has some count stations right near here,
[24:27] and we use that sort of the verify our counts as well.
[24:31] And the volumes have been steady
[24:32] and even slightly decreasing over time.
[24:35] Part of it could have been, you know,
[24:37] when the office building was removed.
[24:38] But I mean, even in recent years.
[24:40] So we're being a little extra conservative
[24:41] by adding that growth rate,
[24:43] but that's the standard practice that is typically done.
[24:47] So that gives us a future baseline of the traffic volumes
[24:50] that will be out there.
[24:52] And the next thing I need to do is identify
[24:54] how much traffic that the proposed building would generate
[24:58] during those peak times.
[25:00] We use the ITE, the Institute of Transportation Engineer's
[25:03] Trip Generation Manual.
[25:05] It's basically a compilation of research, traffic
[25:08] counseling throughout the country,
[25:09] other of these businesses. In this case, this size residential building and this setting,
[25:15] what it says would be generated is about 75 trips in the peak hour. It's 75 in the morning,
[25:20] 74 in the evening. A trip is a vehicle either entering or exiting the properties. Obviously,
[25:25] in the morning, most people are leaving, going to work in the evening, they're coming back home.
[25:31] So, we're on the order of 75 trips. NJDOT considers a significant increase in traffic
[25:37] as a hundred or more decoupling trips.
[25:39] So we're under that threshold where you typically
[25:41] would necessarily do a full traffic study,
[25:43] although we did one here.
[25:45] But I think it's important to point out the historical use
[25:48] of that property as an office building.
[25:50] If I use the IT E numbers for that,
[25:53] it's 200 trips in a peak hour.
[25:56] So we're generating an insignificant per DOT volume of traffic,
[26:01] but we're significantly over 100 trips per hour less
[26:05] than an office building, which makes sense.
[26:07] office building, you've got everybody's arriving at once leading points where there's a residential
[26:11] building that's more spread out over the morning, people working different places, different
[26:15] fields, some people are home, different hours.
[26:19] So this is actually going to be a much lower generator than what was historically there.
[26:24] What I put my analysis together, the building was already vacant and being torn down or renovated.
[26:31] So we didn't include any of that, but I think that's a good information.
[26:34] I'm basically looking at this is if we built this residential building over a forest over a vacant land, what's the impact?
[26:43] So when we have the amount of traffic, we have that future baseline traffic volume with the growth rate,
[26:49] and the traffic volumes generated by this project, which we then overlay on that,
[26:53] we're able to do a comparative analysis of the future condition.
[26:56] We call it the no-build and the build scenario.
[26:58] So essentially, if nothing happens, this project doesn't move forward, here's what these intersections would operate like, we had this traffic, and here's what the change is.
[27:10] That analysis is, it's a pretty complicated software that gives you, based on the traffic signal timing, stop signs, laying with grades, there's a lot of input data that goes into it from what we collected.
[27:23] And it gives you a delay per average delay per vehicle, which is then related to a level of service.
[27:28] I'm sure you've heard this from other traffic engineers.
[27:31] A, being the best level of service or the least delay with an F being the worst delay.
[27:37] Not exactly like grades in school because you would typically design two for peak hours at a level of service D.
[27:43] And I'm sure not it was raining for D in school.
[27:46] So I definitely like when people say it's like grades in school.
[27:49] But in this case, all the turning movements
[27:51] at those two intersections of the River Road Connector
[27:55] are operated at a level service C or better.
[27:58] And that's with or without this project.
[27:59] So we don't even change any of those levels of service.
[28:02] Which, again, I expect it because it's generating less
[28:05] than 100 important insignificant amount of traffic.
[28:09] But the analysis bears that out.
[28:12] The driveway itself, the main driveway on River Road
[28:14] operates at a level service B.
[28:18] So we have good levels of service, we're not changing those levels of service, and I think
[28:24] more importantly we're getting rid of that office building that generating more traffic
[28:28] historically.
[28:29] So that's a big improvement.
[28:30] Bring it up.
[28:31] Much lower traffic, generator generating potential on the site.
[28:36] So that's the summary version, essentially, of the traffic impact part of things.
[28:41] So, Craig, just to summarize that, because it's a lot of technical information, I know.
[28:47] So the intersection that you studied, JFK Parkway and River Road, in the AM, no build, which means if nothing occurred.
[28:58] That operates in the no build as a level of service B.
[29:02] Yes, overall B. We look at each individual turning movement, like a left from JFK, but the overall intersection itself is a B.
[29:10] With this project and the growth rate that you also factor in, correct?
[29:15] Yep, it still operates at a level of service, so no change in the level, and that's both in the morning, and in the evening, both of those peak hours that we looked at, and that's assuming that this building generates its peak traffic at the exact same hour that the roadways have their peak traffic, so there's a conservative layer built into that.
[29:36] Okay, so the point that I just I wanted to make sure that we to show that we investigated is that in the no-vild versus constructing our project with future global trade.
[29:46] There's no impact on the delays at that intersection.
[29:49] Correct.
[29:50] The impacts of the minimal increases in delay but not enough to change the level of service, which is really how you sort of grade the intersection.
[29:57] Gotcha.
[29:58] And then the River Road and Connection.
[30:00] We're going to have to wrote what same thing that today operates as a level of service be? Yes. And in the bill's condition? Be. And in the PMP? Same thing, be in be. Okay, so it stays at that level of service be correct. And then finally the site drive way. In the bill's condition, what will that be? Because I guess there's in the no bill that the residential doesn't exist today, right? Correct. Yeah. Well, the golf course driveway too, because I look at it as like a four-legged intersection, but yeah. So that would also operate at a level of service be.
[30:29] Okay, and in your professional opinion, a level of service B is more than acceptable?
[30:35] Yes, absolutely. If we were designing this as a new facility, which you should for a D, like I said,
[30:42] okay, kind of what the the aim is for the peak out. I just wanted to make sure that that was clear.
[30:46] So what? Let's go over the next topic. Yeah, and you make a good point. The idea is that the the rest of the day,
[30:51] like we're looking at the peak on peak. So the rest of the day, it's going to be better than this. We want this is the worst case.
[30:59] And then as far as the parking, I know the testimony was provided at the last meeting but I'll just go through those numbers again.
[31:07] When you do the math with the 1.8 spaces for 1 bedroom, 2 spaces for 2 bedroom and 2.1 spaces for 3 bedroom comes out of requirement of 384 spaces.
[31:18] Plus, we have that set aside for city vehicles of 25 spaces, so the total requirement
[31:24] then is 409, and we have 584 spaces provided.
[31:31] So there's a surplus of parking available on the site, and I understand that it's written
[31:34] into the ordinance that that could be used for some sort of long-term vehicle storage
[31:39] if that ever materializes.
[31:41] Not something that would generate daily traffic in and out, but maybe a car dealership
[31:45] to put some vehicles, so hopefully that comes the case so it's not always the space
[31:52] essentially.
[31:53] So the project as a whole meets the RSI as the residential site improvements standards,
[31:59] which is a statewide standard as to the number of parking spaces.
[32:02] It exceeds the standard in terms of the number of parking spaces.
[32:07] That number now the RSI is a maximum.
[32:11] So technically when you exceed it, you need to go explain to them why and get an exception,
[32:14] But since we have the city vehicles and the potential for long-term vehicle storage in there,
[32:21] then we don't have to make that exception.
[32:24] But now you have to inform them when you provide more parking when they require not when you provide less, which is interesting.
[32:31] Have you had a chance to study this size of this space?
[32:36] Yes, all the parking's only.
[32:39] It's a very cool up to plan, just so if there's any specific questions.
[32:45] Just refer to the sheet that you're on the other.
[32:50] I just want to do a pull up.
[32:53] Well, at the previous league, the previous league, the second league,
[32:56] the second league, and that's proud of this.
[32:59] I don't know if this was Mark, because this is part of the set, right?
[33:01] It's part of the set we didn't market.
[33:03] Yes, just identify the sheet number.
[33:06] It's...
[33:07] She number one of one, this was the site plan exhibit that was pulled up.
[33:09] At the last meeting, the only change now is that we have the...
[33:14] the loading zone, but the interior of the building is exactly the same.
[33:17] And the architect, well, in his presentation, we'll go through some of the
[33:21] fours and things like that.
[33:22] But I looked at it in terms, you know, from a traffic engineering perspective,
[33:28] it's a parking stall, dimensions, circulation, aisle widths, all compliant, all
[33:32] worked very well.
[33:36] We had, I think there was a discussion at the last time about any tandem parking
[33:41] It was being provided because the space just exists, but that would be assigned to a single unit.
[33:46] We're not going to have people sharing keys.
[33:48] There's no need.
[33:48] There's enough parking here.
[33:50] But if somebody has that second car that they only use on the weekends or every once in a while,
[33:54] that's a good opportunity to be able to have that out of the way.
[33:58] And Craig, can you speak to compliance with the number of 88 parking spaces?
[34:03] Yes, we're compliant with ADA and the EV parking spaces.
[34:07] Technically, you get a credit for the EV parking spaces, but we don't really need it.
[34:11] we have the physical number, but we have sufficient EV parking spaces, 56 EVs and 80As,
[34:19] or what's required, and that's what we have.
[34:21] And the I-O-Wits, I think you said this, but just to reiterate, the I-O-Wits, if it's turning
[34:24] radiuses within the parking structure, are all sufficient in your opinion?
[34:29] Yeah, not only sufficient, but generously.
[34:32] These dimensions work for surface parking lot, typically a garage, you sometimes see spaces
[34:36] that are a few inches smaller, and drive a lot of smaller, and you expect that when you're
[34:40] This is a very generous layout. Okay, and then moving to the the exterior of the property or the exterior of the building
[34:47] Do the driveways have proper sight distances in your opinion and in the proper geometry they do we we check the sight distance
[34:56] Because coming off a root 24 you're coming around that curve
[34:59] Make sure that that was going to be kept clear any landscaping in there will be either low enough or limit high enough that it doesn't interrupt that sight visibility
[35:07] And it was an existing driveway serving an office building for many years and seemed to work.
[35:15] I guess we could have the landscape architect test the fire recording, the landscape and
[35:19] that we proposed over there.
[35:20] So we can hold off on that.
[35:23] And then again, not to be redundant by on the outside, the dry vials and turning radius is
[35:29] all for all sufficiently designed in your opinion.
[35:32] Yes.
[35:33] and Mr. Fruit testified the last time with regards to circulation and deliveries and the
[35:39] fire truck and all those things and I concur with what he said, we're not to go through all
[35:42] that again.
[35:43] Okay, and then the last item, I mentioned this when we started the hearing, we did remove
[35:47] that crosswalk from the mid-block crosswalk, can you just speak to that place?
[35:51] Yeah, understood the concerns that came up the last time and just like I wanted to ensure
[35:58] that site distance work, because the people coming around the corner, we thought that crosswalk
[36:04] is going to get very little usage, and if probably we would create more problems than it
[36:10] necessarily would solve. So we've eliminated that crosswalk. If there ever was the opportunity
[36:14] or the need for other crossing, it would make more sense to be at the intersection rather than
[36:20] a mid-block crossing across the road, which comes with its own set of headaches. With multiple
[36:26] jurisdictions.
[36:30] I think it's the first for the record. I'm looking at my notes on the markings.
[36:35] We should probably just mark this as 8.5 just because I didn't have this mark that the last meeting
[36:39] is just called side-point exhibit. So let's just for the abundance of questions just mark this
[36:45] as 8.5. Craig, what was the date on it? This is update. I'm looking at the load. It has the crossing
[36:53] This is dated August 6th.
[36:56] Yeah, this might have been exactly what we submitted in the days in advance, but we'll just
[36:59] mark it to be safe.
[37:00] Thank you.
[37:00] It was in a folder that's had previously shown, but he couldn't have been.
[37:07] So that's all I have from Mr. Paraguay, Mr. Anything else I'm going to ask?
[37:10] No, I think that could be the conclusion.
[37:12] Thank you.
[37:13] So what I'm going to do is I'm going to start with Mr. Stun, and we're going to go around
[37:18] the dias with question.
[37:20] But do you have any questions?
[37:22] Just to confirm, this is the upper level of the parking deck.
[37:27] Actually, this is the lower level of parking network.
[37:31] Yes, this is the lower level. You can see where it goes straight in.
[37:34] And that's A5 when we're saying this. Upper level has got some. Do you have a shot of the upper level as well? It has some of the building on it.
[37:45] I don't see circuit with driveway. I don't know. Let me see.
[37:51] Perhaps the moment you get a little highlighting with that show.
[38:01] I know it's on the market.
[38:08] If not, we can imagine that.
[38:10] Yeah, just let's see if you can get a real quick to answer your question.
[38:13] Okay.
[38:18] That's probably the best.
[38:20] This is not a previous midget plan set.
[38:23] All right, just indicate the day on a crag and just reference the sheet.
[38:25] Yeah, this is sheet 7, the second floor plan, dated, last revised, June 8.
[38:35] I'm sorry, so what was your question so we can answer and I apologize.
[38:41] So this is the earlier version just so you know.
[38:46] Right, so she's the person.
[38:48] Yeah, this is this is from the last time.
[38:50] The second and third floors haven't changed at all.
[38:53] Let me know if you want to zoom in on anything.
[38:57] Thank you.
[38:59] No question?
[38:59] I guess the only thing I would question is when it was an office building.
[39:10] Oh, Mike, sorry.
[39:12] People are here, sorry.
[39:14] My question with the when it was an office building, the traffic was Monday through Friday.
[39:19] Meanwhile, the golf course, pretty empty during the week or at least in the middle of the day.
[39:25] Um, do we, are there any concerns about our weekends?
[39:30] Let's say the fishing derby or, you know, just a lot of traffic in and out of the golf course
[39:37] on weekends and also out of this residential complex.
[39:43] This, the peak hours for the weekend in general are going to be lower from this building
[39:48] and the roadway volumes are quite often very much lower, so the worst case is more
[39:54] the weekday, so no, I don't have any concerns about the weekend. But you make a fair point
[39:58] that the office was quiet on the weekend, so this will be a little more right. If it works
[40:02] during rush hour, it's going to work fine on the weekend.
[40:06] And the entrances line up between the golf course and the circuit building. Yeah, but
[40:14] we'll just inside. Just as they do today, it's exactly what you see today. Right, but yeah,
[40:18] okay. Mr. Stern. Yeah, I would do. Why did you choose that day?
[40:23] Secretary of State.
[40:25] Joel, the winner, President say we can.
[40:28] Would you check to see if all the schools were in the session?
[40:31] Oh, yeah, we checked for schools.
[40:33] And when I do these, when we do these counts, we use other data sources.
[40:36] We have other counts that we've done in the area up and downstream.
[40:39] The DOT has count stations.
[40:41] They actually have a June 2026 count along JFK Parkway that I, you know, I always check that.
[40:48] Of course, traffic bond can fluctuate day to day, 10 to 15%.
[40:53] But if you're in the right ballpark with those numbers
[40:57] and using those other data sources to verify that,
[40:59] you know, you're good because we've built
[41:01] some of that conservative nature in the analysis.
[41:03] Using that growth rate that is not really happening
[41:05] and assuming a peak on peak takes into account those fluctuations.
[41:10] So there's no, there were no anomalies based on any of the other data
[41:13] that I had in here.
[41:14] Did you include any seasonal adjustment?
[41:16] I mean, to Ms. Morrison's point, Thursday,
[41:20] And the winter is very different than the Thursday
[41:22] and the summer given the adjacency of the golf course.
[41:26] No, we didn't make any seasonal adjustment.
[41:28] You do that if you were near the beach or when schools out,
[41:34] but typically day-to-day, you don't see that much variety.
[41:38] So in the summertime, you're right.
[41:39] There may be more people going to the golf course,
[41:41] but there's also more people on vacation,
[41:42] so less people commuting the work.
[41:44] So it tends to even out.
[41:46] And like I said, the DOT data has several days a week,
[41:49] and it goes back to, I think, 2018 with traffic volumes.
[41:55] And they're all right in the same ballpark.
[41:56] There's no anomalies.
[41:59] Have you ever driven river road?
[42:01] Ben rush hour, during the week?
[42:04] I have.
[42:05] What'd you experience?
[42:07] Once you get past here, go on south.
[42:10] It gets a little rougher.
[42:12] I know that new signal went in there, was that maybe four years ago?
[42:16] And does the analysis include any of the additional
[42:23] approve developments?
[42:24] There's another one going up in Chattam, across from River
[42:27] Grow.
[42:28] There's the potential for 55 plus community in the mall.
[42:32] Does anybody include any of that?
[42:34] Anything that was yet that growth rate accounts
[42:36] for that type of thing?
[42:37] Anything that was in the immediate vicinity,
[42:40] we would specifically look at.
[42:41] But when you're talking about that kind of distance away,
[42:43] I mean, I know a couple projects I've worked on
[42:45] farther down the tricontal park is I don't know what's going on with that but you know that that's a little
[42:51] bit farther down the road when you're talking that distance their specific traffic is trickled apart so far
[42:56] from by the time it gets here so that growth way to come growth rate accounts for that but if the golf course is being
[43:02] redeveloped with you know when other office building that would be a different scenario where you would look more closely at that and when you said
[43:09] You use the counts based on the office building, being occupied, not vacant, right?
[43:19] Yeah, just for comparison.
[43:21] No, I don't know.
[43:22] Wait, where did you get those numbers from?
[43:25] I do the same thing.
[43:26] The ITE, if we were going to build an office building,
[43:29] they're latest rates for an office building.
[43:32] Because where you have it ever looked at,
[43:35] what this specific, like, if you went back six years
[43:38] pre-COVID office building is 100% occupied. Are you able to get any sort of traffic count going back
[43:45] that far? The DOT has the the through volume counts and they are from 2018 was probably the highest
[43:52] and then it's gone steadily down since obviously there's a big dip in 2020 but I can't tell who was
[43:58] coming out and in and out of the office but by using those ITE rates it accounts for like the post
[44:03] COVID world. So that's what if we were going to build an office building that size on here,
[44:09] it would generate 130 more trips than what we're proposing here now. And again, my analysis
[44:16] doesn't take any credit for that. I just thought that's good information to sort of get an idea
[44:21] of the magnitude of difference. Thanks. Okay. Thank you.
[44:28] So my main concern and questions
[44:33] for you are pedestrian safety and how do you you want to walk somewhere? How do you walk safely
[44:40] out of here particularly school tilt children who want to we're a walkie we don't have
[44:44] bushing in this town and kids walk to school so I'd like to understand how they get from the
[44:55] like to, they're not going to walk down river road.
[44:58] They're going to walk to Iris.
[45:00] We're along there. And how are they going to get there safely?
[45:04] Yeah, and there's a lot of incomplete or missing sidewalks. I don't know, because it was an office building,
[45:11] but there's no, you know, we're providing on all of our frontage off the sidewalk and the structure that there is,
[45:17] but it would have to be a point to mention walking into the mall the last time.
[45:20] Sidewalk takes you under 24, but then it disappears, and there's really, if you look at that mall, there's no pedestrian connections.
[45:27] All right, but I'm more concerned about the other way.
[45:32] Yeah, that would be the type of scenario where we could either, you know, could either
[45:37] at a crosswalk to the other side of River Road or across the Connector Road, but there's no
[45:44] contiguous sidewalk to get you all the way to Iris.
[45:50] So where would be the safest place considering the understanding of where carger going and how quickly
[45:56] they're going to put a crosswalk to get to a sidewalk that's on the
[46:01] munisai.
[46:02] Yeah, that that would be at this connective road intersection would be the
[46:06] best place.
[46:07] There is a crosswalk.
[46:08] Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, you're saying the diagonal crosswalk that's
[46:13] currently there.
[46:14] That's currently there, and then you could continue that crosswalk to the
[46:17] opposite side to get to the.
[46:20] How safe is that along a crosswalk, diagonal crosswalk?
[46:23] I don't, I feel like shorter and 90 degrees makes more sense.
[46:29] That's why it's a diagonal because it's a ramp.
[46:31] So you want the driver to be perpendicular to the crossing.
[46:35] That's because of the ability.
[46:36] That's why it was done like that because it's on that curved ramp.
[46:41] Yeah, I'm not comfortable with it.
[46:43] I need, but I'm not an engineer.
[46:46] But I feel like we have to solve for this being residential,
[46:49] which is what your applicants proposing and figuring out a way to get students across and safely to a sidewalk system, which starts at Iris.
[47:02] So, Marie, can you help us here? Do you have any suggestions or questions to try and solve for that?
[47:12] So understanding that the crosswalk to directly to the golf course was remit was removed.
[47:21] And there were discussions pre-application that was a desirable crossing without understanding the traffic situations.
[47:31] It just looked on paper from the city standpoint to say, hey, what about these people wanting to get across the street?
[47:37] And of course we've all looked at that and thought maybe that's not the best thing.
[47:43] You know there's there's and that was just to get people to the golf course.
[47:49] Is there anything on the other side of River Road that we connect those series of crosswalks to a sidewalk that's near Iris?
[48:01] The sidewalk near Iris comes part partially down the ramp and then it goes away and doesn't connect all the way to that intersection.
[48:11] Right.
[48:12] If we've looked, you know, we've gone through driven into the park.
[48:16] If there was a sidewalk, I'd prefer them to be where it connects and it's.
[48:20] If there was a sidewalk on the Munisai, where would be the best place for a crosswalk?
[48:27] If you had to put one in there, have you looked at in enough to see that an extension of
[48:36] a sidewalk maybe 50 feet would improve it? Is there anything there that would look logical
[48:42] to you?
[48:43] Can I just in a room?
[48:45] My suggestion is this is a very important topic and we got to get it right.
[48:49] Sometimes you do this on the fly when it's very technical, it's impossible, it's not
[48:54] the prudent thing to do.
[48:55] So I think I mentioned it's at the last meeting and I just don't think there was a lot of time with all of us to maybe some vacations
[49:01] We should meet with with your board engineer and go through this and get it right and see where we can do it
[49:06] I have no issue doing what I'm looking for that total problem. I also wanted to mention one more thing that is more of an operational issue than a design issue
[49:13] The applicant is providing a shuttle service to to the to the downtown on
[49:19] At the property. So I understand the school children's an issue because
[49:23] because they're not taking the shuttle that could work.
[49:26] But in terms of just reducing the amount of pedestrian traffic,
[49:30] there would be people utilizing that shuttle service
[49:32] that the applicant is providing.
[49:34] By the way, they run that shuttle service
[49:36] from their management company.
[49:37] They don't third party it to someone else.
[49:39] So they control that.
[49:41] So I think between that and working with your board engineer
[49:44] to resolve the problem that you just mentioned
[49:46] or the issue, we're more than happy to do that.
[49:49] OK, and we'll get tested in the morning next time on that.
[49:52] Yeah, our goal would be to meet with them.
[49:54] And then hopefully we can provide a design
[49:56] or some alternative that's acceptable
[49:58] to your professionals on that.
[50:00] Great.
[50:00] Okay, that sounds like a plan.
[50:02] And it's something that we've thought about.
[50:04] That's why I know what I know
[50:06] at the sidewalk because we're beginning
[50:07] and then because we've looked down everywhere.
[50:08] And I think it's in the best interest
[50:09] of the applicant to do it also.
[50:11] So I think it's not just the city as well.
[50:13] So yeah.
[50:13] Great.
[50:15] I just want to check my notes real quick.
[50:17] Is there way to memorialize that the long-term parking
[50:21] You know, the differential that makes this fewer trips from this site, now that it's residential,
[50:29] is that there are fewer cars.
[50:30] And when it was in the office, it was up to 700 cars, some crazy number.
[50:36] Part of that is now just going to be long-term parking for something like a car dealership.
[50:41] Is that memorialized somewhere so that that doesn't change?
[50:44] And then we have just as much trip generation.
[50:46] So there's two things that would protect the board or the city on that.
[50:50] one is it's in the settlement agreement on the affordable housing.
[50:53] It mentions like, it defines basically what type of,
[50:58] but if the board obviously, Mr. Warner can chime in,
[51:01] wants to make it a more expressed condition,
[51:04] if you want to have better language than we have in the settlement agreement,
[51:07] obviously you have the right to do that to ensure that that
[51:10] used the way it's constantly.
[51:10] I know that's fully the intent.
[51:12] I just don't want it to.
[51:13] So we have no issue with that, and I want to even make it further
[51:17] clarity on that, that's fine.
[51:18] Great.
[51:18] I've never denied the opportunity for any of my boards to have a more explicit detailed condition
[51:25] of approval in a resolution.
[51:27] I'm not going to start now.
[51:29] So this, I got that, and we're going to hear about the pedestrians later.
[51:35] Do you have visitor spaces?
[51:36] Because you mentioned an extra car now, and then you have to tandem them, but you're going
[51:41] to have built and I just didn't check that.
[51:43] Yes.
[51:44] the numbers, the requirement, builds in the visor space that have space per unit and how the
[51:49] tan of would not be for visitors.
[51:51] No, I just think tan of seems so unnecessary on your particular site with an existing giant
[51:56] group.
[51:59] Okay.
[51:59] I think I'm good.
[52:01] You're not, you're okay.
[52:04] Just hear as why the study area was limited for traffic to those couple of intersections
[52:09] when, as Paul mentioned, the most of us here recognize that River Road gets completely jammed.
[52:17] Was there any thought of looking into how it can impact the...
[52:21] Yeah, there isn't.
[52:22] The maximum impact are going to be right at this signalized intersection,
[52:26] because that's where most of the traffic,
[52:29] some people are going to go back.
[52:30] I got a 24, but that's one of the most of the traffickers. Then beyond there, it's dispersed even farther.
[52:34] So we're already just coming out of the driveway and insignificant amount of traffic.
[52:38] And then they go left or right. So then it's even less than that. And then the traffic going south, where I know the concerns are, it's a very small wonder.
[52:46] So it's not going to, if we're not changing the level of service at this intersection that we're directly maximizing the impact, it's not going to change it there.
[52:55] I know that we're probably not getting a level service season B's as you go farther in the town,
[53:01] but the Delta is what my focus is, and the maximum Delta is going to be right at the site.
[53:06] Okay. Given that this application proposes 198 residential units, did you evaluate whether the school dismissal period creates a separate afternoon peak traffic?
[53:16] Yeah, we look, like I said, those DOT Council, they're all all day counts and we're not getting a school peak here.
[53:23] And the school, I let the planer, we'll talk about the school children, but this is not going to have a question.
[53:27] But how did you look at the school, the afternoon school children, when it was four o'clock, I guess, this is my question?
[53:33] The DOT Council, when I compare them up, but before we do our counts, I look at whatever information I had to see if that situation might occur, but where do you have a big bump?
[53:43] because the schools nearby, there's no school, I can even hear you.
[53:45] I guess Craig just, and it doesn't.
[53:47] Just to be clear, the DOT data that you're describing that I think you mentioned goes back,
[53:52] I think you said almost about eight years.
[53:53] 2018 is, yeah, they have the impact that's 2018.
[53:55] Okay, so the reason that you're relying on that is because it has counts throughout the day.
[54:00] Correct.
[54:02] Yes, the 24-hour counts.
[54:04] What DOT is saying that the river road is currently running at a level B at five o'clock?
[54:08] Is that correct?
[54:09] No, no, no, no.
[54:11] analysis is based on my thoughts. I use the DOT data to make sure that I didn't go
[54:16] out there on a strange day or get some weird information or the, you know, why is
[54:21] this off by like 50%, you know, I make, I validate that. I also look at that to see
[54:27] if there is some sort of peak. I mean, obviously you can look and see if there's a
[54:30] school right across the street or right in the area then it's a, it's a concern, but
[54:34] some places you do have a bit of a school peak and that doesn't occur here. It's literally
[54:39] the rush hours of the busiest.
[54:41] And that data of the DOT data is in the traffic study as well?
[54:45] No, it's public, it's online.
[54:47] Okay.
[54:48] We can just provide that for us.
[54:49] That's fine.
[54:50] Yeah, yeah.
[54:50] Of course.
[54:51] Can we ask the shuttle?
[54:54] Can we have it somehow not go through the residential streets like a certain...
[54:59] Can we see what the plan is to get the shuttle...
[55:02] Yeah, you want us to just provide as an exhibit like the path?
[55:07] That's great. That's fine.
[55:10] And then are there handicapped electric vehicle chargers?
[55:14] Yeah, I guess there's eight. Is it?
[55:16] I mean, you said there is eight.
[55:17] Yes, there are.
[55:18] Eightier accessible.
[55:22] Then that might be it for me.
[55:25] Right now.
[55:25] Go ahead, Susan.
[55:26] All right.
[55:28] I'd like to...
[55:28] Well, first of all, have you done a traffic study
[55:32] for an office building conversion
[55:33] to residential presumably
[55:36] that there were beach children living there, have you done that before?
[55:40] Love you.
[55:42] I, for me, I would like to see the data between three and four as well.
[55:47] If you can go down from four, but down to three.
[55:50] Because I'm really concerned about children getting in and out of this building.
[55:57] And then I'm looking at, I'm imagining a child, or a mom, or someone,
[56:07] going down that service
[56:09] road toward River Road.
[56:12] So let's assume, first example, the parent is in the car with the child.
[56:16] So they go out of the driveway, they're in the right lane, presumably.
[56:21] And then immediately, I'm going to use a technical term, have to ooch to the left lane because
[56:27] They're going toward town, presumably, toward school.
[56:31] And I'm thinking there's going to be a lot of cars there.
[56:34] And that ooching process is going to be much more complicated
[56:38] than it was before.
[56:40] Because the regular flow of traffic is people coming off,
[56:44] 24, coming down, and sort of setting their car
[56:50] into the lane they want to be.
[56:52] But these folks are in a very short period.
[56:55] going to be going from the right lane, having to pooch into the left to go into town, and I'm
[57:01] just wondering how you quantify that, how you describe that, and if there's any extra danger
[57:06] associated with that. Yeah, well the oozing is a, if we model these intersections, it's graphically,
[57:14] like the distance between the intersections and all the lanes, so that oozing process is a
[57:19] on and forth in the analysis,
[57:22] and actually let me give you a general
[57:23] question.
[57:25] I think that I understand better the right hand people, the people taking right out
[57:31] of the driveway and the right toward them all or something.
[57:35] But the folks coming out of the driveway are coming into traffic that's already established
[57:41] and moving at some pace, you know, 30 miles an hour or something.
[57:47] And in a very short period of time, that person is going to have to get in the right lane,
[57:53] ooch over to the left lane, and I think that is going to cause a traffic complication.
[57:57] Just let me make sure I understand what I'm talking about. When you come out of the driver and you make a right
[58:01] and you mean to go left up a river.
[58:04] You make this right, you need to get over to the left lane to make the left lane.
[58:07] And you're doing it in a very short period when the car is behind you already established at their rate of speed.
[58:14] I think. Well, there's no cars coming. It's not a fourth leg there, so you're either
[58:22] making the left because you're making the you turn. Well, aren't people going to be behind you?
[58:26] As you're making your right, you're going to have to see if there are people behind you, right?
[58:31] Or do you traveling on the road? No, there's no, there's no
[58:35] for movement there. This is just one continuous lane. But aren't there people? Or maybe I'm
[58:42] And I'm imagining it wrong, but I think they're going to be people already traveling
[58:47] from the road, this between the Muni and the New
[58:50] residential building, right?
[58:52] Are they're going to be people already established coming down there?
[58:56] Who came off the ramp from the floor?
[58:59] So they're going to be going
[59:00] 30 miles an hour or something. So
[59:04] The first thing you're going to have to do is figure out your way to get into that to make your right turn, right to get into that line of traffic
[59:10] Yeah, and then you have to do the ooch. I'm just considering that that's going to, that's something that needs to be thought through.
[59:19] So I guess that's why I asked Craig when he was going to use that's the line that is all the site distances made sense.
[59:26] So everybody can see and interact.
[59:28] And then the other question I had is, the police defined also.
[59:32] That's if they did it, yes.
[59:33] Do they have anything to do with the traffic?
[59:36] No.
[59:43] I just wanted to just respond and say that the police department just reviewed capital patterns and didn't have a concern with the issue and we also meet all of these scientists and suppliers and set up a flyers on their whole journey.
[1:00:01] And I also, I'm going to want much more full-sum data for I'm assuming it's going to be very few children walking to school from this building, but the ones that might be walking are kids in high school, because it's not that far, and I don't know if you've owned a kid from high school, but they're not the most sensible people.
[1:00:20] I currently have one.
[1:00:22] I am dead.
[1:00:22] And so I think you really have to be really
[1:00:26] full some in your understanding and our understanding
[1:00:29] because kids don't do what they want you to do.
[1:00:32] And I'm thinking they're not going to want to go to Irish Road
[1:00:35] because you know what they're going to want?
[1:00:37] Duncan Donuts or a bagel.
[1:00:39] So they may very well be going right into this traffic
[1:00:44] that's actually moving.
[1:00:45] So I really want to have a good understanding
[1:00:47] because you can't trust them to do the right thing.
[1:00:49] So, just so I didn't think you can respond appropriately.
[1:00:54] Mr. Tervo, could you speak into the mic please?
[1:00:56] Just so we could respect that, I'm sorry.
[1:00:59] So, just so we could respond appropriately.
[1:01:01] The chairwoman also requested that we coordinate with your board engineer,
[1:01:06] regarding sidewalk connection between the pedestrian path,
[1:01:10] and I think you asked for correctly, just for me,
[1:01:13] I'm sure we're getting everything right.
[1:01:15] You asked for additional data between three and four.
[1:01:17] I think for me other than the fact that
[1:01:24] it's not great to have this building here when it wasn't there before, I'm really concerned about safety and I was just thinking about high school kids who don't, they're not going to do what you want.
[1:01:35] To be clear though, as far as where we want to know pedestrians can go, you're saying, not Irish, where are you saying they're, they need to be saying, they're going to go to your board.
[1:01:43] I want a bigger one I want to don't know before I go to school. So I'm probably not going to go on
[1:01:50] I'm probably going to keep it like River Road. Yeah, okay. Yeah, and I just make sure that I'm safe
[1:01:59] I want I want these children to be safe. Got all sort of way and crossing there is not kind of
[1:02:07] Yeah, and you know now that I have the aerial up this was marked the last time it's the aerial exhibit
[1:02:12] data, July 27th, 18th probably.
[1:02:17] The area is a one actually.
[1:02:19] Yeah, I think you could see a little bit better.
[1:02:22] There is a crosswalk crossing the connector,
[1:02:25] and then there's a sidewalk on the west side
[1:02:29] of the river road ramp that just ends.
[1:02:32] And then it picks up, and approximately that location
[1:02:35] on the opposite side, and connects the iris.
[1:02:38] So there's just whatever went on there's
[1:02:40] disconnect and we want to connect to the sidewalk network and the most efficient way for exactly
[1:02:45] what you're saying but how best to do that I think we need to do that. I think that we need to
[1:02:48] need to understand that really really well because no apartment building is worth a dead 15
[1:02:54] year olds. It's just not. Right and we need to work with them to come up with a plan and they're
[1:02:59] going to present it at the September meeting what they came up with. Okay. Okay. Correct? Yes. Okay.
[1:03:08] Great. So, next.
[1:03:11] Well, thank you, Chairman.
[1:03:14] Some of my questions are all being already been addressed.
[1:03:16] But I guess one of your earlier comments, Mr. Perigoy,
[1:03:20] and thanks for your remarks.
[1:03:23] You mentioned that the historic data showed a decrease in traffic
[1:03:27] at certain intersections over time,
[1:03:30] and the perception in some of it is that the traffic on river out is getting worse.
[1:03:34] I'm curious about that, what if that is, in fact, what you said, and where we can find that data to back that out.
[1:03:42] Yeah, it's the NGOT has count stations in certain places, and they have one actually right on River Road that didn't go as recent as 2026, but they also have another one on JFK Parkway.
[1:03:58] And that's the one that's actually going down.
[1:04:03] Now, there's a lot of things that impact what the perception is.
[1:04:06] It may be less volume, but there's more traffic signals or, you know, if you're in an urban area more on street parking we do versus a lot of things that affect traffic other than the number of cars.
[1:04:16] So I suspect that's why the perception is that it's getting worse, but those volumes are consistent and somewhat dropping.
[1:04:23] Not growing by 2.25% per year for sure.
[1:04:25] Well, if you can share that data, I would be very interested to see.
[1:04:29] Yeah, we wrote that down as you wanted us to provide that as part of it.
[1:04:32] That's terrific.
[1:04:34] There was a question about the other potential uses of a long-term, long-term storage parking area.
[1:04:42] In a similar vein, is there a possibility to have memberships to the pool or to a health facility that could be attracting others to come to this site?
[1:04:53] if they're only for the residents.
[1:04:55] So there's no possibility of having that virus.
[1:05:01] And I noted that the traffic study conducted on 19th of February
[1:05:06] was that Thursday after President's day,
[1:05:09] which is a week where a lot of people think vacation time.
[1:05:12] So I don't know if that is the best time to have done it.
[1:05:15] I don't know if there's a way to adjust for that.
[1:05:18] Well, I think Mr. Stern also mentioned that.
[1:05:21] that you're going to dress it again?
[1:05:24] You'd like.
[1:05:25] And like I said, there's always,
[1:05:29] everything is an actual something day or whatever,
[1:05:32] so you look for what's a typical day when schools are open
[1:05:34] to do the traffic counts and then I'm able to use other data
[1:05:37] to compare it to.
[1:05:39] That's how.
[1:05:40] Okay, so I didn't hear him say that.
[1:05:43] Yeah, no, that's okay.
[1:05:45] It's a valid question because it's typically a lesser,
[1:05:49] There are a lot of people are away.
[1:05:52] I can type with these levels of service, even if the volumes are 15 to 20% low, which
[1:05:57] would be unusual even for any type of holiday, the change in conditions from this, with or
[1:06:09] without this, would not be impacted.
[1:06:12] So when you move on to Delta, then the specifics, and that's really what the analysis does.
[1:06:18] By being conservative with high growth rates, assuming being going to be, you were able to take some of those questions out of it.
[1:06:25] What if the next day it was a little bit higher?
[1:06:27] The next day it was a little bit lower.
[1:06:29] You're kind of buffering from that when you do these analyses.
[1:06:34] So when you look at the three, three o'clock hours of the four o'clock,
[1:06:40] the reason I think a lot of this traffic is felt in the community is because there are four schools,
[1:06:46] basically going out from Morris. So if you have any of those data points along Morris that could
[1:06:53] inform that would help as well. Sure.
[1:07:00] Mr. Golden. Thank you, Madam Chair. So PSH, per side hour,
[1:07:07] is that where we're talking about? I think street hour. So, how do you come up with the number of trips?
[1:07:14] You look at 198 units, an average of number of cars per unit, and you plug it into the software.
[1:07:26] It's the ITE. It's a trip generation manual.
[1:07:32] We started out with a projection of number of cars. Well, and for this it's the number of units, so 198 units, and a mid-rise, residential building, and a suburban location, and that's how you get the car number.
[1:07:50] But don't you factor in the number of cars per unit?
[1:07:56] Sorry, we have to break because one of our members on to bathroom and I said you could, but he shouldn't.
[1:08:03] We don't want to dismiss any testimony.
[1:08:06] So we're going to take what?
[1:08:10] Five minutes break.
[1:08:12] Five minutes.
[1:08:14] Five minutes break.
[1:08:15] Thank you.
[1:08:16] ready
[1:08:20] to proceed?
[1:08:24] I didn't know we had an injury. I didn't hear her.
[1:08:28] We're not going to show us injuries.
[1:08:35] Thank you.
[1:08:38] You ready, Mr. Cheval?
[1:08:42] Yes.
[1:08:44] We're back.
[1:08:46] I think we were at the last question from board now.
[1:08:52] So, the trip generation data, so the ITE publishes traffic counts that are conducted at various
[1:08:59] land uses throughout the country, in this case, and in the case that we're looking at
[1:09:03] a mid-rise residential building and a suburban location they have, dense urban and
[1:09:08] center city, because obviously the traffic generation characteristics are different.
[1:09:13] Residential is one of the most studying land uses that ITE has, so there's a lot of data,
[1:09:17] And the independent variable that you use is the number of units.
[1:09:24] So of buildings of this nature, somebody sat there and counted how many cars go in and
[1:09:30] how many cars go out, and then you get a rate from the number of units.
[1:09:35] So that's what we do.
[1:09:36] Thank you.
[1:09:39] We passed all their questions.
[1:09:40] Any follow-ups real quick?
[1:09:42] Just have one.
[1:09:43] Oh, okay.
[1:09:43] You mentioned there's a letter from the police on, well, we're discussing board. I don't think it's in our packet, so if we could have that sent to the board.
[1:09:53] Regarding the, regarding the, um, the exiting and the movement, remember?
[1:09:59] Yeah, I saw the response letter to, I saw like a one liner, but if we had to get the original letter just for the packet, that'd be great.
[1:10:07] I don't know who, I think I said the U.S.
[1:10:08] What was it?
[1:10:09] The letter from the police chief regarding the new driveway and site triangles and what was that
[1:10:19] was that from the informal TRC?
[1:10:21] I think there was something I'll double check.
[1:10:23] I thought there was something from the police department in the packet, but I'll double check it.
[1:10:26] I think it just says no comments that I could.
[1:10:29] It was something that wasn't included in staff comments, something longer than what was included
[1:10:34] in the staff comments.
[1:10:35] I guess what it would be appropriate to ask what was in the TRC then, is that if it was in TRC, if there's a document in TRC.
[1:10:43] I was sitting in the TRC meeting and there were the police officers in the room, somebody mentioned the driveway.
[1:10:49] Oh no, we'll go with it so that was my recollection.
[1:10:52] What got in writing?
[1:10:54] We should, let's get that in writing, please.
[1:10:57] From whoever's in the city's responsibility.
[1:11:00] over. I guess I'm kind of comment from the police chief about circulation of a formal
[1:11:05] written report.
[1:11:09] Maybe it should after Marie works with them with regard to the pedestrians
[1:11:13] and that whole area may be then they can look at it. We can also include the police
[1:11:16] department in those discussions. Yeah, that's true. I think it might be more relevant than
[1:11:21] actually. Okay. Good idea. We did something. I know we did, but I didn't have it
[1:11:29] It's dated June 30th, no, that's the comments do date, dated June 30th, and the police said,
[1:11:37] I just asked that the guidelines set forth for traffic safety are followed without any deviation,
[1:11:41] unless pollution is granted ahead of time by the SPD.
[1:11:47] And like I said, my personal conversation with them in the TRC meeting,
[1:11:51] talking about the driveway, they were happy to stay where it is.
[1:11:54] Doesn't there, but based on the comments that we had before, we're happy to incorporate them
[1:11:58] Those discussions, but yeah, I knew they issued some of them just comment on that
[1:12:02] We're gonna have some changes so that that's fun
[1:12:05] Okay, if you want to confirm, let's share him that that was included in the staff comments, but that's not what you wanted
[1:12:11] If there was more detail, I would say let's get it, but it's not
[1:12:14] No, but I think we're resolving that out by
[1:12:17] I'm cooperating in that process
[1:12:20] Okay, so are you gonna bring your next with us?
[1:12:24] Public comment. I'm so sorry
[1:12:26] Do you want it? It is time for it
[1:12:29] For professionals, then public comment.
[1:12:32] Just jump in the gun.
[1:12:33] I'm so sorry.
[1:12:34] That's okay.
[1:12:40] Could you talk about some of the sight distance at the entrances and exits on to River Road?
[1:12:51] Yes.
[1:12:52] The sight distance from exiting the driveway looking to the left is obviously the most critical.
[1:13:00] a lot of the rise of the road is pretty straight.
[1:13:08] I just wanted to pull up that proposed.
[1:13:11] Yeah.
[1:13:14] So the main visibility that I wanted to check and make sure was that the site distance from turning right looking to your left when you come out of River Road.
[1:13:24] And we meet the site distance for, you know, the minimum visibility is coming around that corner for 45 miles per hour.
[1:13:31] And that's a, you really couldn't take that turn at that speed.
[1:13:36] But there's a advisory sign for 20 miles per hour.
[1:13:38] So if I the letter of the law, we're not even close,
[1:13:41] but I wanted to look at the more realistic,
[1:13:43] do we need it?
[1:13:44] Yes, the visibility would be there.
[1:13:46] The only thing that we need to be sure of,
[1:13:48] and we will, is to make sure that any of the landscaping
[1:13:50] or anything that's proposed in this area,
[1:13:52] isn't an obstruction.
[1:13:55] And we'll hear about landscaping later on
[1:13:58] from the landscaping tax.
[1:13:59] So we'll all go to the office on questions on that.
[1:14:01] So just to reiterate, what you're saying is that those site triangles that you're showing on there are for 45 miles an hour.
[1:14:12] And, but you're saying that that turn can't even be taken at that, and it's also signed for less.
[1:14:19] Is that correct?
[1:14:19] It's signed for less.
[1:14:20] The site triangles that you're seeing on site plan are, that's the site triangle where you keep things from being right to mediums of the driveway.
[1:14:28] I'm talking about the actual ash-dose like distance and if you like we can put that we could put that on the plan as well
[1:14:37] That would actually we'd be good right. Thank you
[1:14:45] The 58 electric vehicle charging stations spaces all be up and running at the time of occupancy or are they going to stay staged over the next series?
[1:15:00] I think we would just comply with the statute in terms of the phasing requirements.
[1:15:03] Okay. You would put some of them in at the beginning and others.
[1:15:06] Right. We would, we would add a minimum, we would add a minimum, comply with what the statute requires.
[1:15:13] And I know that since we're, I'm sure you're aware of this, but I just want to put it on the record.
[1:15:19] Now that we're changing some of the engineering plans for the width of the roadway, the loading space.
[1:15:26] I just want to make sure they're in corporate need to do the plan set.
[1:15:30] Yeah, no, of course.
[1:15:30] We just want to, I guess that there was only a few weeks between meetings and I know that
[1:15:35] that was one of the boards, like, you know, main comments, so we just wanted to get that in.
[1:15:38] But yeah, the full set would be updated.
[1:15:41] There's great.
[1:15:42] Great.
[1:15:43] And I appreciate that there was a short amount of time.
[1:15:46] You know, it's much easier for me to review those as well when there's only a small change.
[1:15:50] So I appreciate that.
[1:15:51] No problem.
[1:15:58] The exhibit that has the fire truck, the one that we've presented tonight, Maria.
[1:16:06] Do you have, can you talk about the exiting on that as well?
[1:16:11] I mean, it shows the entrance of the fire truck.
[1:16:14] Could you talk about if there are any constraints for the exiting of that fire truck?
[1:16:19] Well, it's essentially take the reverse path.
[1:16:22] The only constraint is if he pulls into this circle like he is,
[1:16:26] Swing in that left would take a reverse maneuver and back presumably that's when the you know
[1:16:32] That's obviously when the emergency is done and he's clearing out there.
[1:16:40] I think that's I think that's it's all I had for now
[1:16:47] Madam chair. I was so I forgot to swear you and because I swore in your colleague last time
[1:16:53] That's what you swear to God or firm testimony about to give us a truth the whole truth enough
[1:16:56] But the truth I do thank you. I know you can ask questions first probably but certainly
[1:17:00] And just to identify myself, Edward Snikes with the firm at Barges Associates, filling in for Joe
[1:17:04] Barges this evening, who's out of town.
[1:17:07] Just a few quick questions with regard to the site distances from the entrance.
[1:17:13] I also wanted to know if you felt you took a look at the monument sign that is near the exit
[1:17:19] of Route 24 on to River Road.
[1:17:23] I did.
[1:17:23] I used that as the basically the limiting factor for the visibility.
[1:17:29] Although I think that's going to sit down low, so maybe I'll be able to see beyond it, but I thought that was the important kind of cutoff.
[1:17:36] Okay, you feel that there's still a safe enough distance for a car turning on to river road and possibly some minor stacking on river road going into the entrance of the driveway.
[1:17:47] Yes, in a worse case.
[1:17:51] With regard to the loading in an unloading area, typically on move-in day, that's where that loading area be used.
[1:17:59] sort of move in day for the residents?
[1:18:02] Yeah, building like this is typically would be scheduled.
[1:18:04] So when you're moving in, if you need the loadings on,
[1:18:07] most people probably move into these apartments with smaller vehicles,
[1:18:10] and you can just choose their parking space,
[1:18:12] but if you need that loading zone, because you have a larger vehicle,
[1:18:14] you'd schedule all the time, so that would be a conflict within.
[1:18:18] Okay, I guess that would be scheduled as far as loading in the loading zone.
[1:18:21] Yeah. Okay. Also, that seems to be adjacent to your trash area for the building.
[1:18:27] So a trash truck can make that turn as well as obviously the fire truck, but then the trash truck to leave the site would go up and around that same
[1:18:37] I guess drop off area south into the building.
[1:18:42] They could, or they could, we consider the possibility of them coming out of the emergency driveway when it's in delivery vehicle or something like that,
[1:18:49] because it would be a little bit quicker, but they could, but the trash truck wouldn't do the emergency.
[1:18:54] Yeah, access to that point, we'll go up around.
[1:18:57] But they can make a turn at the top.
[1:18:58] Yes, I'll go up there.
[1:18:59] Yes, that's really my fire truck.
[1:19:01] It's a little tight.
[1:19:03] And most of the deliveries I would imagine
[1:19:05] would be your parcel of vehicles like UPS or Amazon.
[1:19:09] They would go up to that central main entrance
[1:19:11] at the south under the building.
[1:19:12] Yeah, the loading zone would be
[1:19:14] from building function loading.
[1:19:16] I've moved in and moved out, so somebody
[1:19:17] would have a refrigerator or something like that.
[1:19:23] I'm sorry if I didn't hear this or wasn't aware of this just may have been covered by the engineer.
[1:19:27] But the generator that's proposed to the building, is that natural gas?
[1:19:31] Do we know?
[1:19:32] Or is that going to be diesel fuel?
[1:19:35] Natural gas?
[1:19:36] Okay, so there's no need for a delivery for that.
[1:19:38] Then, thank you.
[1:19:40] No further questions?
[1:19:40] Okay, thank you.
[1:19:42] All right.
[1:19:43] So now, can you get a look up?
[1:19:45] Is it that?
[1:19:46] Just to clarify, this is just questions of this witness.
[1:19:52] So what you do is you come up to the podium and you state your name and your address and ask your questions of this witness.
[1:20:02] If you have a question about architecture or some other something, then you just wait until that witness comes.
[1:20:08] Okay, thank you.
[1:20:09] Hi, I'm Carly Mulvie.
[1:20:11] I live at 7.
[1:20:12] I have a couple questions.
[1:20:16] And so I'm going to go slowly here, so I apologize, but I just want to make sure I read
[1:20:24] your traffic study.
[1:20:25] It's very thorough.
[1:20:26] There's a lot of information.
[1:20:28] I want to make sure I understand the baseline correctly, so we're talking about two hypothetical
[1:20:33] scenarios.
[1:20:34] We're talking about no build, which is currently a vacant office building that we're assuming
[1:20:40] it's fully occupied, but in the current environment.
[1:20:43] No, I didn't assume that my analysis.
[1:20:47] Okay.
[1:20:48] It's vacant now.
[1:20:50] So my analysis is if we were doing this over trees.
[1:20:54] So is there any sort of base of like Aziz traffic on River Road and then a no build and a residential?
[1:21:03] Yeah.
[1:21:03] The counts we did are the 2026 volumes.
[1:21:07] We grow them.
[1:21:08] This case I did three years to get the 29 baseline volumes.
[1:21:12] Okay, analyze that, and then I add the traffic from this project, and then analyze it again, and see what the difference is.
[1:21:19] Okay, okay, so your baseline is, is as is.
[1:21:25] Yes.
[1:21:25] And then a hypothetical residential.
[1:21:27] Right.
[1:21:28] Okay, I did the office.
[1:21:29] I just, that was for information, but I didn't.
[1:21:31] Okay.
[1:21:32] Okay, so the assumptions that you put into your, or, are very important for the residential aspect of this, because that is hypothetical.
[1:21:40] So the assumptions of the traffic and the build and the cars and the growth rate. Those are very important
[1:21:47] Yes, okay, so I'm gonna start with the 2.5% growth number. So
[1:21:54] We're all very familiar with this right
[1:21:58] We're all residents of the town although it's a county road
[1:22:01] We all use this all the time and there's a
[1:22:04] A ton of complaints about congestion traffic. So I think we can all align there as a base
[1:22:09] I worked with the City of Summit for three years recently to get the no-left medium that is now on Iris Road from River Road.
[1:22:21] This is some of it conducted three years worth of traffic studies to conclude.
[1:22:30] That the traffic on iris road had increased over 30% within 3 years. So I'm going to finish before I ask a follow-up question on that.
[1:22:43] But is your 2.5% growth rate applied only to river road?
[1:22:50] But it's all the accounts that we sent to River Road, the connector road, the ramp and...
[1:22:55] But no off streets. So no one's saying, I'm frustrated, I'm River Road, I'm turning.
[1:23:00] No, I think that's why you received the increase on addresses because people were using it as a cutthroat when the new signal went in down in the chat.
[1:23:07] Right, right. So we see the city of Summit.
[1:23:11] It just has to be a question only because we're...
[1:23:13] I didn't understand the 2.5% growth rate.
[1:23:19] So my question is, so one day study is that standard?
[1:23:28] Okay.
[1:23:29] Is that standard for the city assignment?
[1:23:33] The questions have to be of the witness.
[1:23:34] Okay.
[1:23:36] Can I ask, I don't know if I can ask this, but has our city engineer provided any feedback on the independent traffic study that you provided?
[1:23:44] Were the county?
[1:23:45] Yes, your board engineer, the board engineer, the board's engineer, reviews our traffic report as part of the,
[1:23:52] as part of their review, in addition to that, the county looks at it, the DOT looks at it,
[1:23:58] and I believe, like I said before, the police department identity as well.
[1:24:02] So multiple layers of jurisdictions looked at it and that's why Craig was indicating,
[1:24:07] well, the methodologies that they accept as part of the analysis.
[1:24:11] So is there any feedback or commentary that's that can be public or no, it just goes through?
[1:24:17] No, all of that's public.
[1:24:19] All of like the city engineer and everyone's feedback is public.
[1:24:22] Every document whether the county responds, the state responds, the city responds every document is public.
[1:24:28] That's correct.
[1:24:29] Is that located on the website or does that what source would we be able to see that documentation notes?
[1:24:35] I think for this study maybe Jessica Kinsey Kate is all the all the other review letters
[1:24:41] are with your office correct yes you can come to the DCS counter if you want to view the
[1:24:45] application file or you can look on the city website we have staff comments yeah so the board
[1:24:49] engineers comments are in there okay okay I miss something I guess but um okay one thing that I
[1:24:57] didn't understand and maybe you can explain this to me in the roots and everyone has kind of
[1:25:05] And clearly see the roots that you're assuming students will take to elementary high school
[1:25:14] or middle school in terms of quantifiable numbers of where it increases from a residential
[1:25:20] versus a non-built.
[1:25:23] But you would assume that if it's a residential building, not an office building, my assumption
[1:25:29] would be that there's people who are residents of summer who need to go to schools.
[1:25:34] I couldn't understand from your tables, what roots you were building in for those people to get to school.
[1:25:40] But that's, we were just having that discussion.
[1:25:43] We've been looking into it because the sidewalk network is so incomplete around here,
[1:25:46] and there's so many different options on how to connect it,
[1:25:50] that we're going to work with your board engineer and the police department to figure out the best way to do that.
[1:25:55] But just cars line, elementary school students, you're not going to have a,
[1:25:58] first second third fourth grader walk they're going to be driven so that wasn't built into your
[1:26:04] sense.
[1:26:04] That's built in yet because any other building that the ITE data accountant but a head
[1:26:08] children remember to be taking the school and not it all anybody who turns into an out
[1:26:16] of one of these projects is where that data source from.
[1:26:19] Now I should point out that the shuttle service they're providing is probably going to take
[1:26:23] a lot of those drive to work trips put them all in one van and drive them to the train station
[1:26:28] I didn't take credit for that.
[1:26:29] I used the straight up by the E numbers,
[1:26:30] but all those vehicles are included.
[1:26:32] So for Washington, what was the route you assumed?
[1:26:37] Marisav or back up to Canoeberg Parkway,
[1:26:39] based on where you're located?
[1:26:40] I don't look into the specific route for each individual,
[1:26:43] a person living there.
[1:26:44] You look at the overall traffic patterns
[1:26:46] and then you assign the overall traffic patterns.
[1:26:50] Right, but you would see the route built into numbers.
[1:26:55] So just so we're all on the same page.
[1:26:57] Your question is, because I just want to make sure there's no disconnect in your question. Your question is did he as part of his study
[1:27:04] Billed in a walkable route for it. No, a driving route. No, she's not a driving route. Okay, first it to go there. Okay
[1:27:11] Right, if you look figure four
[1:27:13] Yeah, it was the distribution of the percentage distribution track, but it's not done by saying okay the person who lives in units six is gonna work here
[1:27:20] And the person who goes to this school is gonna go here. It's done based on the overall traffic patterns and and where arterial roadways are
[1:27:28] It's a best guest projection could five more people turn right than I said or five more people turn left of course
[1:27:34] So we're doing you know the best projection that we can you can't micro analyze where every single person's going to go because we don't know who's going to live there
[1:27:40] Yeah, this schools are a set destination. So I just assumed it would be clear in the report, but I hear what you're saying
[1:27:47] So I'll move on
[1:27:49] So my next question is peak holiday shopping periods
[1:27:52] So we talked about a lot, about weekday traffic,
[1:27:58] mornings, evenings, one day study and February.
[1:28:01] Have you accounted for holiday traffic
[1:28:03] to the short-hills mall?
[1:28:05] No, I'm looking at typical days.
[1:28:07] You don't look for anomaly days.
[1:28:09] That's what you want to do.
[1:28:10] It's a season.
[1:28:11] You've got a typical day.
[1:28:12] I mean, it's an anomaly season in fairness.
[1:28:15] I would just wonder if that maybe should be considered.
[1:28:19] So I'm a little wrong from that as well.
[1:28:20] So, I do have,
[1:28:27] I think that's all my questions on that.
[1:28:34] So, you still, this part of the testimony was regarding parking snow removal cracks.
[1:28:42] Can I ask the question on that parking parking?
[1:28:45] Okay.
[1:28:46] So, I'm wondering where Snow will be stored on this property after a significant snow storm,
[1:28:54] and I ask that because I've driven past this property for approximately 10 years, and the parking lot
[1:29:00] regularly has substantial snow accumulation in our snow bay.
[1:29:04] Parting treatment, but again, just so everyone's clear on those, there'll be a public comment period
[1:29:09] if it's pertinent to the question, but I think you might have asked the question without going through
[1:29:15] What happened the last 10 years?
[1:29:16] Where's the snow removal going to happen?
[1:29:18] How's it going to work, right?
[1:29:19] So, okay, is there a plan for snow storage
[1:29:23] that demonstrates adequate parking emergency access
[1:29:27] and what will happen after a major snow event?
[1:29:29] Has that been thought through?
[1:29:31] Yeah, we don't have a specific snow storage plan
[1:29:32] because the vast majority of the parking is indoors,
[1:29:36] so there's not a snow issue.
[1:29:37] It's just these outside circulation roads.
[1:29:39] There's room for a smaller event to plow it
[1:29:43] of the landscape areas. If it's a three-footer, we'll probably have to hire somebody to
[1:29:47] truck it off just like any place. Okay, so. But it'll look better than the office because
[1:29:52] there's going to actually be active people living here, so they're going to want to clean them.
[1:29:56] No, it's not a concern about aesthetics. It's a concern about safety. So that's...
[1:30:00] That's what the question was based on. But I think that covers all my questions. Thank you.
[1:30:09] Good evening, Peter Cain, three Irish Road. So I'm not sure if you answered the last question.
[1:30:16] So I am also familiar as my neighbor was with the traffic study that was done by the city engineer.
[1:30:23] God bless him, Aaron Schreger, I miss him. Which I think he found something in the order of 3600 additional cars on Irish Road,
[1:30:32] over the course of his study, which is extraordinary.
[1:30:36] Thank goodness, because that's how we got the no-lepturn.
[1:30:40] So did you look at that study information?
[1:30:43] Is it available to you and have you incorporated
[1:30:45] that into your figures?
[1:30:48] That when we did the counts, that was already done.
[1:30:52] Did you look at Aaron Traders analysis of Irish Road?
[1:30:55] Yes.
[1:30:56] And that that was due to a cut-through traffic
[1:30:59] from a different condition that has enough
[1:31:00] from this road.
[1:31:01] correct? Yeah. Okay. So from River Road, 300 to 600 cars a day on Irish Road. You looked at that
[1:31:09] data and you incorporated that into your analysis. I didn't need to incorporate into the
[1:31:13] house. It's already been taken care of. Really? With your conservative quote unquote conservative
[1:31:18] estimates. Yeah. I didn't analyze the intersection of Irish Road and River Road. So anybody who
[1:31:24] is going through this area was a counter. There's also been recent traffic studies on
[1:31:30] of a department that is a feeder road, indirect feeder road, have you incorporated those into your
[1:31:36] analysis?
[1:31:38] Have you incorporated the impact since we had the no-lept turn implemented on Iris Road to
[1:31:45] Woodland and River Road and Fay and Brainard?
[1:31:49] I'm not doing a traffic study for the city and for their circulation issues.
[1:31:52] I'm doing a traffic study to discern the impacts of putting this building.
[1:31:55] And we're trying to determine the quality of life.
[1:31:57] Thank you.
[1:31:59] The change in your quality of life or the change in the traffic impacts from this building is what my report is.
[1:32:05] Are you aware of the impact that the current construction traffic has had on ancillary roads?
[1:32:11] That's irrelevant.
[1:32:18] The sidewalks. Why was the crosswalk eliminated?
[1:32:23] It was a concern that it was like kind of in the middle of the block.
[1:32:26] In the middle of a stretcher road where you're coming off a highway ramp, it just didn't seem...
[1:32:33] And then it just crosses into the golf course and still doesn't connect to any place else.
[1:32:36] So it's not going to be for the cross-work was it?
[1:32:39] Yes sir.
[1:32:41] In fairness, you have to let him finish the answer.
[1:32:44] As he left me first.
[1:32:46] As does he let me finish?
[1:32:48] And I'm not done yet, so please let me finish.
[1:32:50] Please do.
[1:32:50] Thank you sir.
[1:32:52] He has to finish the answer for it to work properly under the law.
[1:32:57] He has to allow you to finish the question for it to work properly under the law.
[1:33:02] So I'm asking you both to do that.
[1:33:05] Okay.
[1:33:06] Thank you.
[1:33:07] I appreciate that.
[1:33:09] Thank you.
[1:33:10] Please proceed.
[1:33:12] So it's that of putting that bit of a lot crossing that just gets you to the golf course.
[1:33:15] We want to make sure we connect to the existing sidewalk network.
[1:33:18] And we want to do that the best way possible.
[1:33:20] And there's going to be a team approach with your board engineer and with the police and our team to make sure that we do that the right way.
[1:33:26] have we looked at the possibility of extending the by my count of about 15 foot of sidewalk
[1:33:33] extension from the corner of Iris to on River Road towards the golf course have we looked to
[1:33:38] extending that down the grassy median towards the golf course I've been on the golf course side
[1:33:44] as a sidewalk option but that's an option there's a lot of options we need to figure out the best way
[1:33:48] I would recommend it.
[1:33:49] Let's look at it.
[1:33:50] I think you're part of it.
[1:33:51] I would recommend it.
[1:33:53] Okay.
[1:33:58] I think those are my questions.
[1:34:00] Thank you.
[1:34:01] Thank you.
[1:34:04] Welcome.
[1:34:05] You know, ladies, eager, 60, can you break her away?
[1:34:10] I have a question.
[1:34:11] You mentioned ITE several times and how that's something that you utilize to determine traffic
[1:34:15] out of the building.
[1:34:16] Such as this?
[1:34:17] Thank you.
[1:34:19] Are those ITE's specific?
[1:34:20] or are they national?
[1:34:23] No, unfortunately.
[1:34:24] Unfortunately, their national, which gives us an over-estimation,
[1:34:27] New Jersey, especially residential,
[1:34:29] tends that less traffic generation than you would say,
[1:34:31] and like Oklahoma, because we have a lot more mass transit
[1:34:34] and a lot more density here, but it's a national publication.
[1:34:38] Okay, so it's not specific to the student New Jersey.
[1:34:40] Correct.
[1:34:40] And then in the last meeting, there was mentioned for the traffic pattern,
[1:34:45] that only a box truck could fit for moving.
[1:34:47] Does that now change given
[1:34:49] And for move ends and move out, does that change given the new driveway?
[1:34:55] Yeah, the loading zone could fit, you know, a tractor trail or if that's not the type of moving vehicles we see it building like this.
[1:35:03] I mean, my mom moved one bedroom into a building like this and used a full moving truck.
[1:35:08] But, okay.
[1:35:09] Thank you.
[1:35:10] Thank you.
[1:35:12] Well done.
[1:35:13] Thank you.
[1:35:13] Lisa Allen, 27 plain street.
[1:35:16] A couple of quick questions, does this, it doesn't sound like it does, but does it trigger
[1:35:21] bushing?
[1:35:23] I think that's a good question, but I think it's more of like a board of bad questions.
[1:35:28] The board of bad would be in charge of bushing, I think.
[1:35:31] I don't really think it would be something that's a traffic engineer could answer, but
[1:35:35] it is a good question, but I don't, but I think it's more for the board of bad than it
[1:35:38] would be for the traffic engineer.
[1:35:41] Do we know how far away, I think it's like a mile that you have to be within a mile of a
[1:35:45] school?
[1:35:45] Okay, that's okay, we can
[1:35:49] Okay, all right, so okay, so does it trigger bushing those person to confirm?
[1:35:56] Oh, I was confused and Ms. Bowen brought something up in terms of going in and out of traffic.
[1:36:01] So are there entrances in and out on both sides or only on one side of the building?
[1:36:09] Just the one side, the where the driveway to the office building is is where the main driveway, this is the same spot
[1:36:14] And it's on the side that would be going out of town on to Route 24. Is that correct?
[1:36:20] That's what it looks like to me.
[1:36:22] If it's on it, well, I'll put the aerial back up in the United States.
[1:36:26] This is the same driveway that's what you look at today, and that's the one that's building.
[1:36:30] It's in the same spot.
[1:36:31] So it's heading towards, they would exit onto the one way towards Route 24.
[1:36:38] If you've made a left-out, you could go out onto Route 24 East.
[1:36:42] If you made it right out, then you get to the signal at JFK Parkway, you could go north or south.
[1:36:47] Okay, so you have to go in order to come out of the building, you're going onto a one-way towards Route 24,
[1:36:53] which means that how do people come back around?
[1:36:57] It's two-way. We're rushing away.
[1:37:00] Coming out of there, it's two-way. Can you go? Can you?
[1:37:03] That's right for the air. I love it if you're going to be working here.
[1:37:05] Yeah, we're going to be working here.
[1:37:05] We're going to zoom in to see, could see a little bit better.
[1:37:08] No, you see this red cars has had in this direction and you could.
[1:37:12] I'm going to put it.
[1:37:12] Excuse me.
[1:37:13] Can you just orient everyone?
[1:37:15] So, plan south is the beauty.
[1:37:17] Plants out there. This is the meanest plan.
[1:37:19] Plants are working.
[1:37:20] Plants out there.
[1:37:21] Plants are working.
[1:37:21] Plants out there.
[1:37:23] Plants are working.
[1:37:24] Plants are working.
[1:37:26] Plants out there.
[1:37:30] This is an aerial, so this is the old office building, what was there. 24 is off to the right side of the page.
[1:37:38] And then that little connector road between JFK Parkway and River Road is to the left side of the page.
[1:37:43] I do this part of River Road's two way.
[1:37:45] Okay, so I do agree with Ms. Bowen. It's going to be really dangerous because I don't do it, but you can definitely see people going 555 miles an hour.
[1:37:53] As they head out of town on River Road, academically, it sounds really great that there's two ways there,
[1:38:01] but the problem is that you do have people going out towards a highway and they go really fast.
[1:38:07] So, and you do have the media across the street.
[1:38:10] It would be very valuable.
[1:38:13] I would even think of a footbridge because for kids coming out of there, people are coming in and off a highway.
[1:38:18] It's very unconventional for families, just to be, you know.
[1:38:22] So, I would think you really have to consider how that crosswalk works.
[1:38:27] I personally do not think the diagonal would work.
[1:38:30] You just know I opinion.
[1:38:31] Oh, sorry.
[1:38:32] That was my question.
[1:38:33] Well, you might have missed it, but our board engineer and the applicant are going to work
[1:38:40] together to figure out a very safe way for pedestrians to get in and out of that building
[1:38:44] into a sidewalk.
[1:38:46] Okay.
[1:38:46] Okay.
[1:38:46] But your question is for them to consider that as part of that process.
[1:38:53] Yeah, they're going to come back and testify to what they've come up with and we're going
[1:38:56] to get to review it.
[1:38:58] Yeah.
[1:38:58] I would just love if it's either on both sides and entrance and exit on both sides so that
[1:39:02] you're not just blocking up the one side for people trying to get on to the highway or a
[1:39:07] footbridge.
[1:39:09] No, I'm just at the board made it clear that that's something they want us to really
[1:39:12] analyze and make sure we can write.
[1:39:13] Okay, and I've lived here for 18 years, but in 15 years I've seen two lights go up on River Road because the traffic has gotten so bad
[1:39:21] And we have another aside from Chad and we had talked about it, but there are 47 units going up in on River Road and Morris in Summit
[1:39:30] There was an article and just to lead up to my question. There was an article on NJ21.com
[1:39:37] that mentioned that the engineer had asked for evidence at the channel, I guess there's water,
[1:39:42] has enough capacity for storm water flows, and that the new building won't harm
[1:39:46] the existing flood conveyance system.
[1:39:50] The largest project doesn't trigger the New Jersey major development, I'm quoting this verbatim for the article.
[1:39:58] The project, this project you're talking about, doesn't trigger the New Jersey's major development storm water management requirements
[1:40:04] because the disturb area is less than an acre, and the increase in new impervious coverage
[1:40:10] is less than a quarter acre. I'm very concerned about stormwater management in town. We've
[1:40:16] had so much flooding, so I'm just wondering how you guys would address stormwater management
[1:40:22] with such a large zone. It's a good question. We dealt with this at the last meeting.
[1:40:26] I don't know if Steve will let me summarize what we said. The shadow preside over the hearings
[1:40:31] the chair does. But this isn't the right witness for that because he just did traffic, but we did
[1:40:37] speak to that at the last meeting. There's a whole stormwater plan and report that was submitted.
[1:40:43] Again, I think another member of the public asked if reports were available and the city's
[1:40:49] engineer did review our stormwater report. So that's in there as well. Any comments we agreed to
[1:40:54] I don't know if you want to summarize, but basically, we were decreasing runoff and we were
[1:41:02] abiding by all of the flood rules.
[1:41:04] We have been to state of New Jersey Department of Environmental Protection Permit for the
[1:41:09] property, so we're complying with all the rules as it relates to flooding and stormwater
[1:41:12] management.
[1:41:13] Okay, all right.
[1:41:14] Those are my questions.
[1:41:15] Thank you.
[1:41:16] Thank you.
[1:41:17] Hello.
[1:41:19] Hi.
[1:41:19] Good evening.
[1:41:20] Jacqueline Rung, 13 Greenfield app. Unfortunately, my better half is the
[1:41:25] structural engineer, but he left her dad duties, so you guys get me. I do have
[1:41:29] some general questions about the studies, so the study has a comparison that
[1:41:34] was done against the trip generation potential of a fully occupied office
[1:41:37] building, but as many have pointed out the reality as it's actually currently vacant.
[1:41:43] So I just want to clarify the 75 AM and 74 PM peak hour trips are in fact
[1:41:49] additional trips. Is that right? Yes, correct. Okay. Is there a separate trip
[1:41:53] generation component in the analysis for the 175 third party parking
[1:41:58] spaces? And if so, can you share where on your report we can find that? No,
[1:42:02] because we don't know who's going to use those, but in any event it's long-term
[1:42:06] vehicle storage, so it's not going to be something that's active on a daily basis,
[1:42:09] and if somebody doesn't need to access those vehicles, they're certainly not
[1:42:12] going to do it during the rush hour time period. It's not a little middle of the app.
[1:42:15] Okay, got it. I think that's a pretty significant
[1:42:18] an operating assumption, and I'm not sure if this may have been asked before, but is that
[1:42:22] proposes the condition, restricting the third party parking use going forward?
[1:42:27] We discuss that.
[1:42:29] Okay.
[1:42:29] But you couldn't, yes, the witness.
[1:42:31] Okay.
[1:42:32] Is that proposes the condition, restricting the third party parking?
[1:42:36] It's in the, there's a, there was a settlement agreement on up, you heard me say that earlier.
[1:42:40] In January.
[1:42:41] Yeah, up with the, in that, for the housing plan, and that type of use was, was
[1:42:47] it in that, it was going to be on a bulk basis, but then I indicated to the board that if the board
[1:42:52] wanted to refine that a little further, to get some more clarity on it, based on, you know,
[1:42:57] you made in the comment, the board made that we were fine with that. There's no issue with that.
[1:43:03] There's no intent to make it something that would be at all high turnover. Sure.
[1:43:07] What's a lever? Got it. Okay. So you mentioned the model level service remains be, but the level
[1:43:13] service the way I understand as an average measure. Does your model also show the change in
[1:43:18] 95th percentile queue length and whether that queue can spill back into upstream intersections
[1:43:23] and other access points? So the main concern southbound river road has traffic merging from
[1:43:30] JFK, the ramp from 24 and the ramp from Chad and 124. So now you're adding residents making
[1:43:36] the left from the connector onto river road. Obviously that can have clear congestion implications.
[1:43:41] So, what is the 95th percentile Q-line?
[1:43:44] You're talking about coming off of JFK and making the left one to river from the one that connect the road.
[1:43:51] I'm seeing the Q-line on River Road in general, because it's taking three as it is right now.
[1:43:57] It's taking traffic from three different areas, JFK, the ramp from 24 and Chattam 1 24.
[1:44:03] And now you're going to add residents from your project, making a left onto River Road.
[1:44:08] And so what is that actually doing to the cute length?
[1:44:11] And what is the 95th quartetile length in that case?
[1:44:14] There wouldn't be a cute length along River Road.
[1:44:17] There's just no, it's a through traffic.
[1:44:19] There would be where you have a stop sign or a red traffic signals
[1:44:23] where you would build a queue in that.
[1:44:24] But there is.
[1:44:26] Yeah, but there's one right there.
[1:44:29] There's a light.
[1:44:30] Yeah, there's no stopping on River Road in front of the building.
[1:44:32] You have to stop to exit the drive.
[1:44:33] What?
[1:44:34] No, no.
[1:44:35] There's a light.
[1:44:37] Yeah.
[1:44:37] There's a light right in the corner there.
[1:44:40] Yeah, right?
[1:44:40] That's what I said.
[1:44:41] Then you said no, a longer road.
[1:44:43] Well, it's the connector.
[1:44:45] It's the connector.
[1:44:45] I can.
[1:44:46] It's in the analysis.
[1:44:47] I'd have to go through and dig it up.
[1:44:49] Okay.
[1:44:49] Yeah.
[1:44:49] If you could provide that, that would be great.
[1:44:53] Question in the method of study.
[1:44:54] We're actual queue links observed and recorded in your FED-19 field counts.
[1:44:59] And did you compare that?
[1:45:00] That against the real world, queues that say, with the queues produced by our sinkroom model.
[1:45:05] Okay, is there any reason why you wouldn't have done that?
[1:45:09] We know if there's a born, queuing condition where only half of the cars are getting through
[1:45:15] on a green, then that's noted, and then we look into that, but that wasn't the case of this signal.
[1:45:20] Okay, I guess if you're already there taking counts, why wouldn't, why wouldn't you just observe the queues
[1:45:27] and check them against the output from your model?
[1:45:28] We do observe the cues, but if there's not an extended cue in condition, if the light's clearing, it doesn't have any impact.
[1:45:38] I mean, a move on.
[1:45:39] Side Street access.
[1:45:41] So in determining your study area, and I think this goes to the Iris Road question.
[1:45:45] Also, did you evaluate whether the additional project traffic on River Road can materially affect residents entering River Road from these streets that don't have signal?
[1:45:56] So, gap acceptance or side street delay analysis for iris, woodland, fay, brainard butler,
[1:46:04] greenfield, Lewis, is there any analysis on gap acceptance or side street delay?
[1:46:08] No.
[1:46:10] Any, any reason behind that?
[1:46:12] We're generating so few cars past those intersections of wood, wood, wood, wood, wood,
[1:46:17] wood, wood, wood.
[1:46:17] Sorry.
[1:46:19] Okay, that's clearly not the lived experience of the neighbors here, but I guess that goes
[1:46:24] my last question, you mentioned that you've driven River Road during rush hour.
[1:46:28] Obviously, many of our neighbors here can speak to the existing frequent Q-spill-back-long
[1:46:32] River Road associated with, I think, the Chattam Road signal. Does your model include
[1:46:37] that intersection and capture the resulting spill-back-long River Road?
[1:46:42] No, we analyze the nearest intersection where we're going to have the maximum impacts and
[1:46:46] find that we have no impacts of that intersection. All those other intersections farther
[1:46:51] up and down. We'll have less of an impact. Again, I'm looking at the impact of this project,
[1:46:57] not doing a corridor analysis for the city. Yeah, okay. So if you were looking at the traffic
[1:47:03] in back to River Road, you have to look at one intersection removed from where your project is going up.
[1:47:10] Because all the backup that happens is at Chattam Road and River Road intersection. When that light
[1:47:16] is red, you cannot make a left turn on to River Road. You probably can't make a right turn on to
[1:47:21] So, I'd like to hear some reason for why you are isolating your particular study to just this one intersection.
[1:47:28] This one light right in front of your project.
[1:47:30] When clearly, there are much broader implications.
[1:47:35] So, that's all commentary.
[1:47:37] It's not questions.
[1:47:38] I think that's why.
[1:47:39] Why is it not being included?
[1:47:40] And what's the question?
[1:47:42] Isn't that correct?
[1:47:44] Sorry.
[1:47:44] What was the question?
[1:47:46] Isn't that really?
[1:47:46] I need to ask a question.
[1:47:47] Oh, yes.
[1:47:48] Isn't that correct?
[1:47:50] You would turn it to get away with all kinds of stuff.
[1:47:55] That, I know the intersection you're talking about, because we looked at that when it was first happening when we were doing the tri-kind of project.
[1:48:02] There's right near there.
[1:48:04] I understand you're concerned with that intersection.
[1:48:07] But what I'm trying to do with this traffic study is not fix that corridor and not figure out why the traffic problems are bad.
[1:48:12] It's fine. How much this project is going to have an impact on it?
[1:48:15] So, if the intersection right next to it, where most of the traffic goes through doesn't have a negative impact,
[1:48:23] where there's a smaller percentage down at that intersection, it's going to be even less of a change.
[1:48:28] Is that intersection going to work any differently with this project? No, it's not being impacted.
[1:48:36] and you're all really, I think this is true.
[1:48:39] I mean, it seems like this is just turning a blind eye
[1:48:42] to, you know, compounding existing question.
[1:48:44] At a certain point, we do have to limit it to questions.
[1:48:46] And the public comment period will come.
[1:48:48] You'll be able to make, and can make all these points.
[1:48:50] OK, thanks.
[1:48:51] All right.
[1:48:52] That's all my questions, Anne.
[1:48:53] Thank you.
[1:48:57] Welcome.
[1:48:58] Good evening, Don Nelson, 20 playing street.
[1:49:00] I'm not going to be as eloquent as this young lady.
[1:49:02] I shoot from the hip, so beware.
[1:49:04] So can you tell me the dates or dates you did the traffic study that we did the our
[1:49:12] traffic counts February 19th 20th and that's when we talked about the school being out for vacation
[1:49:17] possibly we're not 100% positive. So and then you also mentioned that there was a counter
[1:49:22] out on Mars Avenue that wasn't counting no measure that the DOT has counts the NJ DOT has
[1:49:31] account stations out in various locations throughout the state.
[1:49:35] But did you mention that one of them was not counting on River Road?
[1:49:38] The one River Road, the data that was available,
[1:49:40] wasn't as extensive as the one on JFK.
[1:49:43] I don't have it in front of me, the exact dates, but.
[1:49:45] So can you tell me the exact number of cars that travel River Road on the day?
[1:49:49] And a day?
[1:49:51] The DOT data could.
[1:49:52] Well, my mind is just based on the FPG hours.
[1:49:55] So one of the numbers River Road in a peak hour, it's about 500 to 600 vehicles per hour, travel on River Road.
[1:50:04] So what's considered a peak hour?
[1:50:06] The busiest single hour between 7 and 9 on a weekday morning and between 4 and 630 on a weekday.
[1:50:12] Would it surprise you to say that in 2001?
[1:50:15] The traffic count on River Road was 20,000 cars a day.
[1:50:20] I know that.
[1:50:21] What part of River Road?
[1:50:22] The whole road.
[1:50:23] The whole road.
[1:50:24] Well along with in Summit 20,000 cars a day.
[1:50:26] But the whole reason why I asked that was because if you do a traffic study, you say it goes up by two and a half percent a year, based on what number.
[1:50:36] Then you can answer my question.
[1:50:38] River Road, the little piece of River Road that we are fronting on,
[1:50:43] is not, is never carry 20,000 vehicles today.
[1:50:46] Father down when he get past where it merges in which he is.
[1:50:48] I agree with you.
[1:50:49] Yeah, I wouldn't surprise.
[1:50:50] But I'm going to keep him when he cars past him from the project.
[1:50:54] This little part of River Road.
[1:50:55] of peak hours, it's about 500 to 600 vehicles per hour.
[1:50:59] In the peak hour on JFK Parkway,
[1:51:01] then farther down by extension, the rest of River Road,
[1:51:05] it's about 2,500 cars an hour.
[1:51:08] We're adding, and this goes back to the previous question,
[1:51:10] in that direction about 20.
[1:51:13] So it's not the existing traffic volume
[1:51:16] is far greater than the additional traffic
[1:51:18] that's going to come out in this project.
[1:51:19] So that peak hour is roughly 500 cars.
[1:51:22] So what is it for the whole day?
[1:51:24] I don't know.
[1:51:26] I don't know.
[1:51:27] I don't know.
[1:51:27] So what is that two and a half percent based on, increase based on the 500 or the whole
[1:51:32] day?
[1:51:33] All those count stations that NJDOT has throughout the state, they look at that data based
[1:51:39] on the county it's in and then the classification of the roadway and come up with that number.
[1:51:44] So that 2.25 percent is a blanket number that I have to use because they published it.
[1:51:50] What I looked at was their actual specific data right here and the numbers are staying the same and actually slightly decreasing.
[1:51:57] So when was those, when were those numbers last updated?
[1:52:01] June 2026 was the latest data company.
[1:52:03] And how about the, the ITE manuals that you use?
[1:52:06] What's the latest edition you use?
[1:52:09] That's the, the 12th edition is the latest edition.
[1:52:11] They update that every one to two years.
[1:52:13] So that's from when 2024?
[1:52:15] No, 2025, I believe that.
[1:52:17] Okay, thank you.
[1:52:18] You mentioned about long-term storage of vehicles and the word dealership pumped up.
[1:52:27] And what that brings to mind to me is there's a very large car dealership.
[1:52:30] I'm River Road. That parks cars across the street from your current project. Is there any agreement with
[1:52:36] that car dealership, the store cars on your lap? No. So what are we talking about? What kind of long
[1:52:42] like who would store cars there? That's what we were saying before. I don't know if you were here for the
[1:52:48] thought. Yeah. There's no perspective, tentative to at least those spaces now, but it's defined how it
[1:52:59] there are a lot of cars coming in and out, but again, as I said before, if the board
[1:53:04] wants to clarify that a little bit further, there is a solution that's fine, but there's
[1:53:09] to answer your question before, there is no end user that has been identified.
[1:53:14] Okay, very good.
[1:53:15] Thank you.
[1:53:16] I think I have one more question, but because I shoot from the hip, I don't remember what it was.
[1:53:21] Thank you very much.
[1:53:22] Well, actually, let's explore one thing.
[1:53:25] The new entrance on the D.P. is required to put in for flood, the emergency one.
[1:53:34] Is that going to be built into the ramp going up to the second floor parking area?
[1:53:42] No, it just connects that existing kind of connector road to River Road.
[1:53:47] So it's almost replicates that existing driveway.
[1:53:49] I'll put this site plan.
[1:53:50] She has an elevation for that side.
[1:53:54] There's another ramp going up to the second floor parking.
[1:54:00] This is, yes.
[1:54:02] So, that's just going to be for water to flow through or cars to get out or how is
[1:54:05] that going to work?
[1:54:06] No, it's for cars.
[1:54:07] If there was a situation where there was a flooding emergency and this driveway was underwater,
[1:54:12] you still want people to be able to get in and out of their departments.
[1:54:15] So, that's something to confuse.
[1:54:16] That's a ramp going up.
[1:54:18] You have to build through the ramp, correct?
[1:54:21] I mean, maybe this was a question for the architect, I don't know.
[1:54:23] I mean, it's just an asphalt driveway.
[1:54:26] I mean, yeah, I'll have a grade to it,
[1:54:27] but it's not a bridge or a ramp or anything like that.
[1:54:30] Okay, I'd have to see what the architect has been going on in.
[1:54:33] When we talk about the fire truck access,
[1:54:35] we can talk about it.
[1:54:36] You're like, keep shooting from here.
[1:54:39] Is the wake capacity enough for all that apparatus?
[1:54:43] You're only showing one piece of apparatus.
[1:54:45] Usually when a fire truck goes to the front of the building,
[1:54:47] it's being used to take some more than one piece of apparatus
[1:54:49] to feed it.
[1:54:50] Yeah, I mean, I'm not a structural engineer,
[1:54:52] but I would like to ask you.
[1:54:55] Thank you.
[1:54:56] Thank you.
[1:54:58] Welcome.
[1:55:00] Good evening.
[1:55:00] Penny Barrett's 79-10-0 drive.
[1:55:04] I've lived through the town probably over 50 years.
[1:55:07] This home project has a mother who drove her three children in carpools back and forth.
[1:55:13] I have a couple of questions.
[1:55:15] On the study you did four to six, 30.
[1:55:20] Okay, most of the people here who are taking their their children to school are picking them up anywhere from 230 on back and forth back and forth.
[1:55:31] So that's one thing. So I think in your study, maybe you should check the times.
[1:55:35] So you have a question like why did you have a question like why was why was that why was that not checked as far as the time and the date when it was checked was probably a holiday.
[1:55:45] The other problem with...
[1:55:48] That man said...
[1:55:48] Yeah, you want to answer.
[1:55:50] Yeah, question.
[1:55:51] A couple of reasons.
[1:55:52] We didn't worry about the school hour because there's no school on river road or immediately adjacent.
[1:55:57] That's when you typically get worried about...
[1:55:59] Are you kidding me?
[1:56:01] So, the commuter rush hours, almost everywhere.
[1:56:05] Even sometimes, right in front of a school,
[1:56:08] are usually higher than that school time.
[1:56:09] The second reason is this type of building is not going to have that many school age children.
[1:56:13] That testimony will come later,
[1:56:14] But this isn't gonna be a bunch of kids living here.
[1:56:19] It's not a, it's not a,
[1:56:22] Can I also, can I also just try to clarify your question also?
[1:56:24] Just give me one second with correct to do that.
[1:56:27] So correct.
[1:56:28] When you study the roadway peak hours,
[1:56:31] you're studying the busiest hours of the road.
[1:56:35] Okay.
[1:56:35] So when you study 7 to 9 and 4 to 6,
[1:56:38] that's because there's the most volume on those roads, right?
[1:56:41] Absolutely.
[1:56:41] And then you identify within those two or three hour gaps,
[1:56:44] the busiest one hour, correct?
[1:56:47] OK, so after you do that, that's
[1:56:49] when you get the level of service analysis
[1:56:51] that you published in your report, correct?
[1:56:55] So anything other than that peak hour
[1:56:58] would be the level of service would be even better.
[1:57:02] Is that correct?
[1:57:04] Yes, that's the idea.
[1:57:05] We're looking at the worst case scenario of a busiest.
[1:57:08] So it's a good question.
[1:57:10] and I just want to make sure that you understand why we studied the hours that we studied
[1:57:14] because if I were in your shoes, I'd be asking the same thing.
[1:57:18] So the point is that that time that school is let out is not as busy as the other hours
[1:57:25] that you studied, correct? Correct. So the level of service would actually be better than the level
[1:57:32] of service be or around the same in those hours. Is that right? That end the building itself is going
[1:57:39] generating far fewer traffic because of the apartments, the people who live in these buildings,
[1:57:44] they're generating their traffic commuting to and from work by and by.
[1:57:48] So, and they have no children. These people who are going to be on the day in a hundred and
[1:57:53] ninety eight units have no children going to school. Nobody's, nobody's saying that.
[1:57:59] What, what I wanted you to understand from the questions, and I'm not, I would have asked the same
[1:58:04] thing if I were you. So, I'm not, that's why I want to answer correctly. Is that the point of
[1:58:09] doing the studies and the hours that he did is because he did them and what he just testified
[1:58:14] to in the busiest time. So anything else outside of that busiest time will be less busy.
[1:58:21] So if it works in the busiest time, which is what he's concluded and everyone obviously
[1:58:26] other professionals are checking that to make sure. But he's concluded that in the busiest
[1:58:31] time it's been, it's good works. When it's less busy it will work even better. That's why.
[1:58:38] But the board did ask for us to still be extra cautious and study those hours as well just to be on the safe side, but I wanted you to understand he didn't just ignore the school hours.
[1:58:52] He studied it in the most conservative way possible, but we will double check it as the board had to question.
[1:58:59] Well, I think the Wug and I just think for people driving their children to these different schools,
[1:59:05] they're going to have to come out of the building, get in that queue, and try to get out,
[1:59:10] and it relates changing how long is it going to take,
[1:59:13] or do you have to plan as a mother, getting your child to school,
[1:59:18] and extra half an hour to get to Washington, Lincoln, the middle school, or high school,
[1:59:23] because of the traffic, and getting out of your building.
[1:59:27] And again, I just want to the room and again, and I'm sorry if I'm not articulating this as well as I could be for you to understand or maybe I'm not doing a good job.
[1:59:37] But the point is if it works in the busiest time, the point that you're trying to make won't be a concern.
[1:59:44] But the board asks us to double check it.
[1:59:47] Please do.
[1:59:48] And then the thing is, when are you meeting with the engineer and what engineer city engineer are you meeting with?
[1:59:53] So the chairwoman I believe has directed us to meet with Marie, who's consulting engineer Marie, who's right here tonight.
[2:00:00] And thank you so much. She asked us also to try to include the police officials.
[2:00:06] And I would say the fire department, because basically as of July, we have more new people in the fire department.
[2:00:12] They wrote a letter, but I think we've already done this.
[2:00:15] Thank you.
[2:00:36] Can you just expand on that?
[2:00:55] What the roots are for the shuttle?
[2:00:57] Yeah, I believe the vice chair had asked that
[2:01:00] We provide that to the board just what that really is going to be.
[2:01:04] The purpose of the shuttle service that this developer
[2:01:08] and property owner does for other other buildings
[2:01:11] is to reduce trips on the road
[2:01:14] and also provide a convenience to its residents
[2:01:16] so that they can go to mass transit.
[2:01:19] But do we have the...
[2:01:21] I think that's what they asked for.
[2:01:23] That's what the chair and vice chair asked.
[2:01:24] I'm sorry.
[2:01:24] So what was the answer to?
[2:01:26] No, no, she asked if we would provide it a later date.
[2:01:28] I'm sorry.
[2:01:29] No, it's okay.
[2:01:30] I'm sorry.
[2:01:30] A plan showing the route.
[2:01:33] Got it.
[2:01:33] So the reason I was asking that question is because it's two ways to get into town.
[2:01:39] One is, I think it's one is.
[2:01:40] That's probably why the vice chair just wanted to know what we had.
[2:01:43] It's a good question.
[2:01:45] Thank you.
[2:01:46] All right.
[2:01:48] So I think I should argue with Helen, it's a great.
[2:01:52] Are we closed on traffic?
[2:01:53] So I think we are.
[2:01:57] Oh, I'm sure at one follow up and then we're going to take a break for this tonight.
[2:02:01] Go ahead.
[2:02:03] One question on pedestrian access.
[2:02:05] So when I was on the site visit, you're basically the cars are going up the ramp.
[2:02:12] How are pedestrians getting down the ramp if they choose to go?
[2:02:18] What's the exit point from the building to the road?
[2:02:22] You meet from the building or from the site.
[2:02:26] From the public.
[2:02:28] From the public.
[2:02:29] Okay, but I can wait for him then for that question.
[2:02:31] Yeah, but as far as pedestrian access down the ramp.
[2:02:33] But it's good you brought it up because our engineer and you all have to figure out
[2:02:38] not only how do they get across the street, but how do they get from the door?
[2:02:42] Because to the street, you know, you know, it's all has to get worked out.
[2:02:45] I've worked in a building like that.
[2:02:47] And it seems like something that everybody would think of,
[2:02:53] but if there's no way, people are like like Susan said,
[2:02:55] people are gonna do the things that you don't expect them to do,
[2:02:57] they're gonna walk down the ramp.
[2:02:58] So is there, I'm just wondering if there was a port or where there's
[2:03:02] for pedestrians to walk or there's a sort of...
[2:03:04] Yeah, I mean, you can see from the corner here,
[2:03:07] it takes you right to the crosswalkings of the sidewalk.
[2:03:09] And when you look at the side,
[2:03:10] that's what you're talking about.
[2:03:11] No, I'm talking about like on the specific ramp,
[2:03:14] How will you delineate help pedestrians walk up and down the ramp so they're going to do it whether you want them to or not and not
[2:03:22] Get hit by a car. You mean walk up and down the driveway?
[2:03:26] Yeah
[2:03:27] I mean I think you would if you were going to walk someplace from the building you would leave from the main entrance of the building and walk on to the sidewalk
[2:03:34] But I guess if you stop at your car to get something
[2:03:39] Okay, if there's a way to delete that better will work with your board engineer if you feel as though it's
[2:03:44] We can do better on that. We'll discuss that with the board engineer because there's a sidewalk connection at the driveway to the sidewalk
[2:03:51] But the end and pedestrian access door is a matter of fact, but the intent would you know the idea of the people
[2:03:57] We'll be walking out of the main entrance towards it.
[2:04:00] Yeah, idea is to make it good enough that they're not going to want to use the land.
[2:04:03] You know, they may, but if this is designed better to get people to where they need to go, they shouldn't be walking up and down the ramp.
[2:04:13] But yeah, true.
[2:04:14] They can do a lot of things to do a living.
[2:04:16] But let's try and do a better job with the help
[2:04:21] of the volunteers.
[2:04:23] Oh, and the other question I had is I think a lot
[2:04:25] of what I've heard, at least from a lot of the residences,
[2:04:27] that we do have a lot of in-house knowledge
[2:04:29] from traffic studies that we've done within the department.
[2:04:32] And if we could get what I would like to request
[2:04:34] Maurice, if we can work with our city engineer,
[2:04:37] as much as you have all the knowledge and you're going back,
[2:04:39] We, these residents have spent, you know, hours and hours and hours talking about access to their streets, I think it would be really valuable if we could include our city engineer in those conversations.
[2:04:49] Because he's the one who's been communicating with all these residents and working with them over the last couple years. I think it might be helpful if we could do that.
[2:04:56] Okay, sounds good. Okay, we're going to take a break. Five minutes.
[2:05:06] Okay.
[2:05:14] You're gonna do, we're gonna start with the army tactic.
[2:05:17] We don't finish.
[2:05:26] Maybe they'll be sitting there.
[2:05:32] All right, are we ready to go?
[2:05:34] Hello.
[2:05:36] So you are in the landscape market?
[2:05:38] I am. Yes, ma'am.
[2:05:39] Nice to see you.
[2:05:40] Okay, it's not just that you need for the record.
[2:05:43] Yeah, my name is Thomas Bauer.
[2:05:44] All right, and you know that you were previously sworn by the board?
[2:05:47] Yes, it was.
[2:05:48] Okay, can you just state your and your main under row for this proceed?
[2:05:51] Just state your qualifications for the record as a landscape architect, please.
[2:05:56] Thomas Bauer, in principle, and founder of a little Bauer Carmen landscape architecture firm,
[2:06:01] where all of this is in Rio and Jersey City, New Jersey.
[2:06:05] I have a degree in landscape architecture from Penn State University in 1976.
[2:06:10] I'm licensed in New Jersey in several other states as well, and I've been before many minutes of
[2:06:16] all towards New Jersey over the last 47 years.
[2:06:20] I'm licensed current in a good stand.
[2:06:21] Yes it is.
[2:06:22] There's a board acceptance.
[2:06:23] Mr. Bauer?
[2:06:24] Thank you.
[2:06:25] So Tom, you prepared the landscape architectural plans for this application?
[2:06:29] I did.
[2:06:30] So we have some exhibits on the board that we're going to show.
[2:06:33] So why don't we walk through them?
[2:06:34] I think Steve wrote to A5-6, A6, yes, yes, okay, A6 terrific, yes. So what I'm going to do
[2:06:47] I'll begin with A6 which is a street level landscape plan and then I'll proceed with several
[2:06:54] 3D graphic perspective views of the site to give you a really good idea of what this is going
[2:06:59] to look like and then I'll finish with a second plan which will be the level above the
[2:07:04] second level plan, which will be of the amenities for the residents.
[2:07:07] This is A6 first, right?
[2:07:09] A6 first, we'll stand this one first.
[2:07:11] Yes, okay.
[2:07:12] Yes, sir.
[2:07:13] We're having, we have a, we have an assistant.
[2:07:15] Mr. Furrier is going to be using this.
[2:07:16] Yes, I'm sending this screen, Rob.
[2:07:17] Just zoom in a little bit more.
[2:07:20] I'm paying him well for this.
[2:07:22] Sir, I'm working for this.
[2:07:23] Okay, we want to.
[2:07:24] Yes.
[2:07:24] All right, go ahead, Tom.
[2:07:25] Sure.
[2:07:26] So let me just point out a couple of things and just emphasize.
[2:07:30] For those who did not know the first presentation at Rodgabe, there are two levels of parking.
[2:07:35] Let me talk about the first level, the lower level, right now, which is access.
[2:07:39] I have a green laser pointer here. This is the low point of river road and this is where you access into the lower level of garage.
[2:07:46] And then the reason I point that out is because on that lower level, cut out, you see this area in green right here.
[2:07:52] This is actually a dog run that's going to be located on the lower level of the garage.
[2:07:56] very convenient to the residents accessible by
[2:07:59] stare tower in this location and an elevator in this location as well.
[2:08:04] So again, it's a lower level of garage undercover.
[2:08:07] So it's an implement, whether it's convenient for the homeowners to take
[2:08:10] their dog downstairs.
[2:08:12] It's also open air because the garage is open to the outside here,
[2:08:15] so there's plenty of air circulation in that air.
[2:08:18] So I start there in a lower, and I think that's an important component.
[2:08:21] It's, again, I think there's going to be more dogs in this building,
[2:08:24] certainly than there are children.
[2:08:25] So it's an important component on all of these rental projects that we, the dog runs are very, very critical.
[2:08:31] So that's on the lower level.
[2:08:32] We also have the most of our activity on the next level.
[2:08:36] As we come up here, again, we can access the garage on the second level here,
[2:08:40] and also here into the garage.
[2:08:42] We have two locations, as you've heard previously testified,
[2:08:45] to get to that second level of garage.
[2:08:48] To the right, this area just takes you into the garage.
[2:08:51] This area coming up to here takes us to the,
[2:08:54] that area a little bit. That's our grand entrance if you will. That's where our lobby is,
[2:08:59] our leasing office. We have a drop-off in this in this area right here, drop-off, and then, again,
[2:09:05] there's entrance into the garage. That's a very great green light. If you just focus on one thing,
[2:09:10] the next chair did ask about pedestrian connectivity. Sure, it's just going to go there to the side.
[2:09:15] Well, can you just displace? Certainly. So again, our front door to lobby is right here, and this area in front
[2:09:19] it next to the drop-off area is all pedestrian area. All decoratively paved with decorative
[2:09:26] painting finishes and then from a circulation perspective the sidewalk along river road is
[2:09:32] in here and we have direct access here connecting to that. There is great change here so we have
[2:09:38] a series of steps to take us down to the sidewalk there's also a handicapped accessible ramp
[2:09:42] and that location. So we have very convenient access to this lower sidewalk and then eventually
[2:09:48] to the crosswalk to the silent and then further down River Road as has been mentioned previously.
[2:09:53] So it's very, very convenient. So we have, we can pull back again in the second
[2:09:59] rub. The entire perimeter of the site is fully landscape. Again, North is kind of up in this area,
[2:10:05] but what we call this plan north, all existing vegetation is in that area and I long conversation
[2:10:11] with your city forest or John Linson about cleaning up this area with some dead material that's
[2:10:16] forested area, and also taking out some invasives. We're happy to do that as well. So we will
[2:10:21] clean up all of this area along this entire perimeter of the site. The balance?
[2:10:27] Yes, go ahead, Jason. No, I was going to say we were going to have the site.
[2:10:30] The existing vegetation that is healthy in mature, yogurt will remain. Of course, of course.
[2:10:36] And by cleaning out the dead material and the invasives that existed, healthy material will
[2:10:41] even more and more elaborately.
[2:10:43] The balance of the site will be, and lushly planted.
[2:10:46] As you know, in this area, boy, that is a break.
[2:10:49] We need to apologize.
[2:10:50] There is, if you know, driving down this area of the site,
[2:10:55] right in front of you, is it, like, a 10 or 12-foot-high concrete wall?
[2:10:58] That will no longer be the case.
[2:10:59] I'll show you the next images in a few moments
[2:11:01] how we're going to address that.
[2:11:02] We've got an entry sign in that area.
[2:11:04] We've got a water feature that you're going to see,
[2:11:06] that's sort of, and it's lushly landscaped,
[2:11:09] with a whole pallet and material that consists of evergreen trees, deciduous trees, ornamentals,
[2:11:15] we have shrubs and ground cover perennials, as you would see on that at plant lists.
[2:11:20] All that you're not all but the great majority of trees, again, has been coordinated with Mr.
[2:11:24] Linson. He's asked us to make some variety changes, which we were happy to do.
[2:11:29] We've got some eastern red cedar, we've got red maple, we've got white oak,
[2:11:33] things of that nature that are all native, and it will be a terrific look as one
[2:11:38] passes by the site, certainly for the benefit of the residents as well as those passing by.
[2:11:43] All the planting of longness area has been increased from our previous meeting.
[2:11:49] Again, Rob perhaps you can enlarge the area of the loading zone and the transform and
[2:11:54] there you go.
[2:11:55] So here's our loading zone.
[2:11:57] So we have, as you can see in this area, we've based on our conversation last month
[2:12:02] with Rob and you request we've added every green trees to buffer that area from the street.
[2:12:07] So if there should be a truck parked there, it's unlikely that it would be very visible from the street.
[2:12:13] We're trying to buff it that area.
[2:12:15] Likewise, in the area of where there are two transformers and a generator,
[2:12:19] we've also provided ample evergreen screening again to buffer that area as well.
[2:12:26] So the entire area, all along River Road,
[2:12:28] even on Mars turn bike, we've got adequate plant material.
[2:12:32] Again, a nice mix of pallet material, in addition to ground cover sawed.
[2:12:37] And it's all well-lit as well.
[2:12:39] So I think from that perspective, we've addressed something that you'll be very proud to see
[2:12:43] as you circle by the site.
[2:12:47] Probably if you've got an next image up what I'm going to show you is a perspective view
[2:12:50] taken from this corner of the river, 8, 7, 7, 8, 7.
[2:12:55] Yeah, and time just to be clear, all these exhibits prepared
[2:12:59] on the U.S. supervisor.
[2:13:00] Certainly, in our office, yes.
[2:13:02] On a mousier ball.
[2:13:03] There's a lot of things.
[2:13:04] OK, please.
[2:13:05] I just want to confirm that what we just saw is the revised.
[2:13:10] That is a revised plan.
[2:13:12] That's correct.
[2:13:12] Yes, that's a revised.
[2:13:13] Of the drive.
[2:13:14] And we submitted.
[2:13:15] Yes.
[2:13:15] And a short name for A7 is entry court.
[2:13:20] It's labeled entry court right here.
[2:13:22] So this is a view from up above kind of a little bit of a bird's
[2:13:24] of you. You see the architecture in this area.
[2:13:27] This is our lobby entrance that you hear our architects speak to a little bit later.
[2:13:33] Hopefully tonight, this is our entry court.
[2:13:35] As we're driving up in this area, we arrive here, we got a drop off area and then a nicely detailed
[2:13:41] decorative pavement. As you know today, it's just a concrete parking deck.
[2:13:45] So from this perspective, anyone who enjoys the residents and any of their guests will enjoy
[2:13:50] a very attractive entry court and plaza area at that upper level.
[2:13:55] And then this area is where the entry sign is in a water feature.
[2:13:59] I'm going to show you a little bit closer view of that in a moment, but everything to the
[2:14:02] left is new plant material, everything to the right as well.
[2:14:06] And that large wall that I mentioned is going to be filled against in large part, clad with
[2:14:11] a decorative stone and be quite a nice feature again from a streetscape perspective.
[2:14:17] So, Rob, next slide, please.
[2:14:19] So A, we'll just see, is it okay?
[2:14:23] We just call this what it's labeled the view.
[2:14:24] Sure.
[2:14:25] We can enlarge out a little bit, maybe.
[2:14:26] This is if you're looking down River Road in a northerly direction, as if you were coming
[2:14:31] from Iris.
[2:14:32] Oh, almost there.
[2:14:33] Yep.
[2:14:34] Make it bigger.
[2:14:35] Okay.
[2:14:36] So you're going to have a little more rough.
[2:14:36] Yeah, you can zoom in, Rob.
[2:14:37] You can zoom in a little more.
[2:14:39] Okay.
[2:14:40] So this gives you a good perspective of what this would look like.
[2:14:43] Again, you're going to hear more about the architecture and the details.
[2:14:45] This is representative of it, but you'll hear more in detail from your architect.
[2:14:50] But you can see this landscape area in here is elevated.
[2:14:53] You can see the sidewalk coming down River Road.
[2:14:56] And here you can get a brief view of the simple little view of the access.
[2:15:00] From the drop-off area and plaza area down to the sidewalk, and then approach the sidewalk for saying, or that the second entry.
[2:15:09] This is the sidewalk for saying right here. That's the sidewalk from the entry court.
[2:15:12] Yeah. The second entrance is past that further down. The second vehicular entrance.
[2:15:16] Right. Yep.
[2:15:18] So also Tom, a good point shown in this exhibit is the fact that the loading area is screened by those memories that you planted.
[2:15:26] That's right, it brought maybe you can even zoom a little bit closer.
[2:15:29] The loading area is down in this area and you can see the Evergreen's in that area that are buffering it even from this perspective.
[2:15:35] Can we get the heights of planning heights for this?
[2:15:38] Yeah, sure.
[2:15:39] We have the Eastern Red Seeders and American hollies already up to Evergreen's of choice on this site.
[2:15:44] And we vary if you look at the planted play you see the ratio made to 10.
[2:15:48] 10 to 12, even 14 to 16 feet and height.
[2:15:51] And that's a particular view has them at what?
[2:15:54] Okay, I'm going to use a varying heights from 10 to 16 feet, but these aren't, these aren't
[2:15:58] views that planting these are views after certain period of time.
[2:16:01] These are probably several, a couple of years beyond, that's a good point to probably a
[2:16:05] couple of years of growth, but they would be planted anywhere from 10 to 16 feet and height.
[2:16:10] And you can anticipate a foot to 18 inches of growth each year.
[2:16:14] So if we pull back, even the shade trees as well, we just mentioned the Evergreen,
[2:16:19] but the shade trees as well are large four to four and a half inch calendar trees,
[2:16:22] sizeable trees so they'll have quite an initial impact even on day one. Next slide, right?
[2:16:33] Okay, nine. Okay, so this is a close-up view on River Road at the corner of River and JFK Boulevard.
[2:16:39] Again, this is the entry sign. Our sign and you're going to, it's, it's, this is the largest of our signs.
[2:16:45] This sign is actually 16 feet wide, four and a half feet tall, but it is at the top.
[2:16:50] But this is the wall that is currently in place along the street.
[2:16:57] You can see that we're filling up against it.
[2:16:59] Today, that grade is all the way down here, but we're filling it with landscape and with
[2:17:02] a water feature.
[2:17:03] So we have water feature starting at the top, just below the sign, cascading down a series
[2:17:08] of steps into a lower basin pool, of which there is no pool that's visible by the way.
[2:17:14] It's all a below grade basin, so there won't be no standing water if that's the issue
[2:17:19] with anyone.
[2:17:19] It's just a cascading waterfall.
[2:17:21] So a beautiful attraction along the street,
[2:17:25] lightly, nicely adorned with shade trees
[2:17:27] and never reads as well, in large caliber.
[2:17:30] This is a shot of the same sign at night.
[2:17:32] So eight, eight, ten, eight, ten, eight, ten.
[2:17:34] Eight, ten, it's called a, it's called a jiff,
[2:17:37] there were the night view of the Vanilly sign.
[2:17:42] We're caught.
[2:17:43] And the water's lit as well.
[2:17:46] I think a beautiful site for the,
[2:17:49] passing by. And it is backlit, I should point out, it has an acrylic lens, white acrylic that
[2:17:58] will be backlit, so it's very softly lit at night. That's the first of our three signs. We actually
[2:18:04] have three monuments signs. This is one. The second one is the next rub, which is at the main entrance.
[2:18:09] This is the entry drive off of River Road. This is a vertically oriented sign to sign itself.
[2:18:14] it is 10 feet high, although it sits on a wall that is 14 feet high. And it perfectly
[2:18:19] in scale with the building. You can see the sidewalk in the foreground, lushly planted
[2:18:24] and off to the left here as well. See some of the ever-grees that are planted as well.
[2:18:28] So with the Bethesign, 10 feet tall, it's obviously less wide.
[2:18:32] The width of the sign is, I think it's 3 feet wide. The sign itself, 3 feet by 10 feet.
[2:18:38] And again, the sign that the wall that is on is 14 feet tall. I think it's by 6 feet wide.
[2:18:47] And again, even in the...to the left is where the loading dock is, so that screen and in the distance is where the transformers are and they are also screened in this view.
[2:18:56] And then the next slide is a night image of this one, again, same kind of interior internal lighting lights went out.
[2:19:06] There you go.
[2:19:07] There you go.
[2:19:09] There you go.
[2:19:09] There it is.
[2:19:12] There it is.
[2:19:14] for a soft white light.
[2:19:16] That's about 12.
[2:19:17] I think K12 correct.
[2:19:19] And this is the third sign.
[2:19:21] This is the second sign.
[2:19:22] Second sign.
[2:19:23] It's just the night time.
[2:19:25] Night view is the same one.
[2:19:27] Two views of each of the two signs so far.
[2:19:29] There's one more sign you will see momentarily.
[2:19:31] Next slide.
[2:19:41] Yeah, we see it here.
[2:19:44] We have tactical difficulty.
[2:19:49] You don't have to go forwards, right?
[2:19:51] I have boards.
[2:19:53] You can bring out the board.
[2:19:53] There it is.
[2:19:55] So this is, I've included a couple images.
[2:19:57] Again, you can zoom a little bit here, Rob.
[2:19:59] This is showing a view from across from the golf course.
[2:20:02] Look at across the street.
[2:20:03] This right here is a 13.
[2:20:08] View across river road from the golf course.
[2:20:11] This is the side, the end of that entry sign.
[2:20:14] and you can see the Evergreen's that are buffering and screening the loading dock.
[2:20:20] Next slide.
[2:20:20] Next slide.
[2:20:20] Same side.
[2:20:22] That's the same side.
[2:20:23] That is the same side.
[2:20:25] And here is just one more view backed up a little bit more on River Road.
[2:20:29] Again, just want to give you a little perspective.
[2:20:31] OK.
[2:20:31] In the fact that we are in fact screening that adequately.
[2:20:34] I know that was a important point for you.
[2:20:36] Eight.
[2:20:36] What's it that was?
[2:20:38] So these are the Evergreen's screening the loading area, which is beyond that.
[2:20:45] And then next slide.
[2:20:47] This is the third and final ground monument sign.
[2:20:50] This is at the corner of Morris and River Road on the corner.
[2:20:56] Same size.
[2:20:57] This is the 10 foot.
[2:20:59] Sign is 10 feet wide.
[2:21:01] The wall is on his 14 feet.
[2:21:04] Same dimensions as the initial sign that they entrance.
[2:21:08] But it's horizontal as opposed to vertical.
[2:21:10] Same dimensions.
[2:21:14] So a three-ground amount of signs.
[2:21:16] And then the last slide, I'm going to, not that one, where is it going?
[2:21:20] There you go.
[2:21:21] So this is, I mentioned the last slide, we're
[2:21:22] going to finish on the second floor, a man in the space.
[2:21:25] Maybe you can, maybe 16, 16, 16, OK.
[2:21:29] So what we have here, again, this is these two courtyards,
[2:21:33] and this is the same orientation.
[2:21:35] Because there's a lot of devices.
[2:21:37] You can see it a lot, man.
[2:21:38] Yeah, I'll go to go to the pool for you.
[2:21:39] So, what is shown in blue is the amenity space to be determined, you'll hear more about that.
[2:21:46] What's in there from New York, a blue area is a amenity space interior, a amenity space.
[2:21:51] It'll be fitness rooms, yoga, club room, that kind of thing.
[2:21:54] And then outside in the courtyard, we have a swimming pool with ample chase lounges.
[2:21:58] We have cabanas backing up onto JFK Boulevard.
[2:22:01] There are barbeque areas.
[2:22:04] There's a pavilion in here with restrooms.
[2:22:06] There's a feature wall with fireplace and TV.
[2:22:09] We have outdoor barbecues, we have lounge seating and fire bowls for enjoyment of night time use.
[2:22:19] As you know, the pool area is a three-month type of use, Memorial Day to Labor Day.
[2:22:24] So that will be fenced in an enclosed and in an in-off season.
[2:22:27] The balance of this area is accessible to the residents as well.
[2:22:30] So it's a great amenity. We also have several the units, the homes that are on that roof level. We have private paddios as well for their enjoyment.
[2:22:40] And then if we jump over to the other roof top, it's a little bit more passive. In this area we have two access points by the hallway.
[2:22:47] And we have private paddios, as you can see, lining the perimeter. There's a walkway that's where you can stroll through this area. And also it's just passive. We have a lawn area.
[2:22:57] Again, some outdoor seating, lounge areas, some barbecue grills.
[2:23:01] We have a feature wall for outdoor movies
[2:23:02] that we can project a movie on and ample landscape as well.
[2:23:08] We, in addition to that, back me, back up a little bit, Rob.
[2:23:11] Let me touch on a green roof concept that if you will.
[2:23:14] All of it, when interior to these plantings interior the couriers,
[2:23:18] we have what's called intensive green roof.
[2:23:19] That's where there's some soil depth.
[2:23:21] Let me be a foot, two feet, there are even 30 inches in some areas.
[2:23:25] That's in both couriers.
[2:23:26] But then outside of that area in this dislocation and dislocation as well, there's quite a lot of what we would call extensive green roof.
[2:23:34] That's a series of serum trays that have been several benefits. Obviously aesthetically, it's better for heat island effect, it cools the temperature.
[2:23:43] It also has some wildlife benefit and from a stormwater perspective, which is the main reason we do it.
[2:23:48] It's actually actually, as a sponge, holds water.
[2:23:52] And together, the intensive and extensive rooftop
[2:23:55] green areas total just shy of a half an acre,
[2:23:58] which is a substantial.
[2:24:00] I know that was now calculated in Rob's stormwater
[2:24:03] testimony, but there is some definite benefit to that.
[2:24:06] So aesthetics, stormwater, nice feature for the residents.
[2:24:11] And with that, that concludes my testimony.
[2:24:14] Happy to answer any questions you may have.
[2:24:16] time. Wow. Okay. So I'd like to start with Mr. Golden. This time would you have any questions?
[2:24:24] No questions. Thank you. Thank you.
[2:24:30] I'm still absorbing. Thank you, Chair.
[2:24:33] Should I start it over there? No, I'm still absorbing it. It's beautiful. I'd like to see more
[2:24:37] the elevations of the overall structures we go through the architectural review. Yeah, you will see that.
[2:24:43] I think it looks like a beautiful design from what I've seen.
[2:24:47] For the green roof, there's a way to quantify the benefits in terms of stormwater in particular,
[2:24:52] that you expect to get from the green roof.
[2:24:54] First is like that.
[2:24:55] First is the status quo.
[2:24:58] That'll be a question for Rob.
[2:24:59] Yes, to quantify.
[2:25:01] Yes, yes.
[2:25:02] I guess Rob maybe we could prepare like a short memo.
[2:25:05] This is a material engineer.
[2:25:06] Just to get what that number would be.
[2:25:08] What benefit it has from a mathematical perspective,
[2:25:11] about your cut asses.
[2:25:16] Any other questions?
[2:25:18] Is it possible and spend your hands?
[2:25:21] Is it possible to prepare an Irish road back yard of view of what someone standing
[2:25:29] in his or her backyard on Irish road?
[2:25:32] We'll see across the community in the building or put it back.
[2:25:36] Let's look at that.
[2:25:38] So those two use what somebody would see standing in his or her backyard just from
[2:25:43] New Parkway, looking straight on, and what someone would see from Irish Road in his or her backyard, looking through the Muni.
[2:25:52] I'm just wondering what they're going to do.
[2:25:53] A view from Irish Road.
[2:25:54] I think the trees are short.
[2:25:56] Now, understand here's a golf course in between our homes on Irish Road and this building, right?
[2:26:01] Right.
[2:26:01] That's a long way.
[2:26:04] I'm sorry.
[2:26:04] That's part of the route, right?
[2:26:06] I mean, they're going to see exactly because there's nothing to stop it.
[2:26:10] Well, there's ample trees through there.
[2:26:11] But we could prepare that view if you'd like.
[2:26:14] We could do that.
[2:26:14] I think that makes sense for...
[2:26:16] We can do that.
[2:26:17] The neighbors, you want us to have some idea of what they're going to see.
[2:26:19] Sure.
[2:26:21] We'll be happy to do that.
[2:26:22] Just for clarification, if I may be out of the chair,
[2:26:25] would the request be at ground level,
[2:26:27] second-story bedroom level, or what?
[2:26:40] And I guess, can I just further...
[2:26:43] I've done cross-sections and studies like this before.
[2:26:48] And I think that's why Steve has probably seen these as well, and that's why he asked the question.
[2:26:53] It is sometimes difficult in the time you think, if this is not a problem, then just tell me.
[2:26:58] We can't get into people's property, because we don't have the right to trespass on somebody's.
[2:27:03] It's just going to say that it would be required to do that.
[2:27:07] Yeah, effectively.
[2:27:08] Yeah, I'm just saying we'll do the best we can to do that.
[2:27:11] I'm just saying we can't go on to someone's property without permission to get a vanish point.
[2:27:16] That's all I'm sorry. So we'll do the best we can ask the same question when we have our
[2:27:20] lighting expert if you're going to have one because we're not going to have a separate lighting.
[2:27:27] It's for Rob testified until lighting when he testified on the civil drawings.
[2:27:30] So then I guess it would make sense to have a new friend of a second for a better result.
[2:27:35] So they can get an idea of what they're going to see that they're not seeing now.
[2:27:39] And what is going to be beautifully, it looks like a lot of it is going to be beautifully masked
[2:27:43] than that's free, but I think it makes some sense to take a little bit.
[2:27:47] Yeah, I think, honestly, I think that if a view from ground level or a second for a
[2:27:51] bedroom is about 10, 12 feet, it's not going to make much of a difference from that distance.
[2:27:56] I mean, we're going to be close to a thousand feet away. So that 10 foot difference is not going
[2:28:00] to be very much. Yeah. So I think it's a single view. It would be helpful also to
[2:28:06] of lighting impacts at that distance, too.
[2:28:10] I mean, we're happy to provide it, but I just want to just say a few things that might
[2:28:16] not be very popular.
[2:28:17] One, and I have to do it.
[2:28:19] It complies with the ordinance in terms of height, setbacks, and coverage is, okay.
[2:28:25] In addition to that, the lighting that was only one deviation we needed for lighting, and
[2:28:30] Rob testify to that, it was at the driveway, but other than that, it was completely
[2:28:35] the lighting on the site was completely conforming. So we're happy to show it, but I just
[2:28:40] want to also indicate that there were zoning requirements prepared for this. It's site plan,
[2:28:45] ordinances that govern it and we've complied with them, except for that one little deviation
[2:28:50] on lighting, but it was actually on the roadway. But if the board wants us to prepare it,
[2:28:55] and we'll obviously enough finishing tonight, we're happy to prepare.
[2:28:59] Some viewsheds. I'd be okay. Okay. One thing that I don't know if the board members know,
[2:29:04] But oftentimes when we'll add a condition of approval
[2:29:09] if you agree and you're out looking at agrees,
[2:29:12] that call yours will come back out in six months
[2:29:15] and check the lighting and see if there are any
[2:29:20] glaring spots, anything that can be tweaked
[2:29:22] so that it's less of an effect on neighbors,
[2:29:25] which is often, honestly, it's hard to predict
[2:29:27] how glare and how lights are going to affect neighbors.
[2:29:31] So we found that to be a really good tool
[2:29:33] And we schedule it within three months or six months or whatever the board decides and then tweaks are made that help
[2:29:40] I think a lot of more to doing that and I think it's actually benefits both sides to be honest with you
[2:29:45] I think it does mitigate that and this unlike a lot of projects I've seen
[2:29:54] Frankly, it doesn't have as much of a lighting issue in my view but I shouldn't be saying that
[2:30:00] All right, right now. We'll see. We'll see. You all will decide.
[2:30:03] Okay. You, uh, on the floor. Oh, I don't know. I'm sorry. I'm done. I'm sorry. I'm done, Susan. Yes, yeah. Okay.
[2:30:10] That was one of probably my biggest concerns with this application is I noticed that you got a waiver for noise glare.
[2:30:16] And I was just curious how, or the checklist waiver. How did that come about?
[2:30:21] And I think to Susan's point, we're going to have to see some more that would be helpful for the residents to see and just wasn't sure how that waiver, how we can see more information around the lighting.
[2:30:33] I mean, I think the reason that we asked for the waiver while it was granted was,
[2:30:36] noise we have to comply with the city's ordinance and the DEP ordinance.
[2:30:40] So we have to know getting around that. So we have to do that. So that's why that was that.
[2:30:45] And then obviously the use is not something that generates significant amount of noise.
[2:30:49] And then on the lighting, as we indicated, we all have LED shielded fixtures and the
[2:30:55] only deviation, as we testified to it the last meeting, was at that one spot, but the rest
[2:30:59] of the fixtures all her shielded and don't provide any glare.
[2:31:03] So that's not the why.
[2:31:05] We asked for the waiver, but again, we're happy to show this view that you requested.
[2:31:10] Steve, who typically approves the waivers?
[2:31:12] I noticed there wasn't an actual approval authority in our ordinance.
[2:31:17] I believe our board engineer seems to be our board planner.
[2:31:22] Teams the application completely.
[2:31:26] So that's my question.
[2:31:28] Go back to you that I guess.
[2:31:31] In our ordinance it doesn't state who is the approval authority for a waiver.
[2:31:37] So how do we get that answer?
[2:31:39] customarily, it comes back to the board technically, essentially, if the board was to deviate the board.
[2:31:45] So the board has ultimate jurisdiction over a checklist waiver.
[2:31:48] Correct, but the applicant can request the waiver.
[2:31:51] And so therefore they did request that waiver.
[2:31:54] So it's probably from their performance standards.
[2:31:56] I'm sorry.
[2:31:56] Okay, so just to clarify, two checklist waivers were, one was for safety,
[2:32:01] and one was for noise, emission, glare, vibration, heat, odor, water, and safety.
[2:32:08] Yeah, can I just clarify one thing that it's a, sorry, sorry, but I did not do the
[2:32:14] completeness.
[2:32:15] That's okay.
[2:32:17] Our certificate of completeness is issued by your administrative staff.
[2:32:21] So we are complete for purposes of the time of the act and all that.
[2:32:24] However, the MLU, the state, despite us being deemed complete, the board can ask for additional
[2:32:30] information and not the course of the proceeding.
[2:32:32] Thank you.
[2:32:33] Even though we're complete, it doesn't prohibit the board from saying, hey, we might need
[2:32:38] or clarity or more information on a topic.
[2:32:40] So I think the checklist waiver is simply
[2:32:42] to deem the application complete to come to the board.
[2:32:45] The board never waves its right to ask for,
[2:32:48] even the same items that were not required to be provided
[2:32:52] in advance to the board to have the application come to it
[2:32:57] to be heard.
[2:32:58] The board always reserves the right to ask for that information
[2:33:02] should the board so desired during the application process
[2:33:05] or alternatively as a condition of approval, subsequent to that.
[2:33:11] I know our board members know that, but I wanted to say that out loud for members of the public.
[2:33:16] Yeah, maybe we didn't know.
[2:33:18] I guess my question would be what typically would be invited and included in that waiver checklist.
[2:33:26] What would have been provided that was waived, I guess?
[2:33:30] For noise, I mean, you could have done it.
[2:33:32] It could have noise consultant to a noise study,
[2:33:35] but again, based on this use, I rarely
[2:33:38] seen them in just residential projects.
[2:33:41] They usually would be done in a industrial type of project,
[2:33:46] or something that has manufacturing,
[2:33:48] or something of all of those lines.
[2:33:50] The lighting, I think we provided this efficient lighting plan,
[2:33:53] you have a complete lighting plan that was submitted
[2:33:55] by the applicant with photometric plan with put candles.
[2:33:59] You have the fixtures that show that they're shielded,
[2:34:02] So those have all been provided. Again, I don't know if the board feels they need any additional items, but those were all provided with the application.
[2:34:10] I would feel much more comfortable getting more information for the residents in regards to those six or so items on the, we were just so they have a better level of comfort.
[2:34:20] I think on the lighting issue with the chairwoman recommended was proper where if I mean
[2:34:28] our foot candles are really low as we testified to except in that one spot but even
[2:34:32] where we EDA it's only 1.3 which is really minimal but if they can it can be adjusted
[2:34:40] after six months that's fine the applicant would agree to that condition of approval
[2:34:45] that's perfectly fine. But I think it goes into things that we're not even, we're not going
[2:34:53] to provide testimony on tonight.
[2:34:57] So I think it would just be, I think we'd like to just
[2:35:00] take another look at some of those things. Just so we're clear, what exactly might the applicant
[2:35:07] be providing, what might you be requesting and what might the applicant be providing?
[2:35:12] Well, I haven't seen the checklists so I wouldn't know can would you be comfortable with Marie working with the applicant for anything
[2:35:20] I think we want to see what what actually would be provided in the normal application and that way
[2:35:31] I don't know what I don't know
[2:35:36] So that so that the board knows what it's asking for in the applicant knows what is providing
[2:35:42] clear we go because I was going to ask the follow-up on the traffic at the end and what
[2:35:47] you put the board wanted us to actually do just to clarify. Can we just finish
[2:35:51] Mr. Vauer and then I'll yeah we can come back I don't I don't we can come back
[2:35:56] back to right. That's fine. Okay. All right.
[2:36:01] On that last question. Sure. What happens when trees die? That's who year? Is it a
[2:36:06] least a two year. Yeah but I'll give you two answers to it. One is what Council is
[2:36:10] to say we have a two-year maintenance bond that we have to provide upon release of the performance
[2:36:14] bond. So you get that for a while. Then the other is this is our landscape plan. The board
[2:36:19] proves the landscape plan. The tree dies. We are going to replace it. If you can, it's part of
[2:36:24] our proof site plan. And then what has the landscape plan been coordinated with fire to make sure
[2:36:29] that nothing's in the way of either. They've seen all the drawings. And I think the only item that
[2:36:38] Mr. Paraboy mentioned was just to ensure that there was no site distance issue at that curvature in the road
[2:36:44] But other than that I think they and there are there is no site distance issue. Yeah
[2:36:48] I'm just thinking more of just getting a
[2:36:50] Collatter over a tree that maybe that that was that was significant we discussed fire department
[2:36:56] Specifically on the JFK side. Yeah, so that was significant that was discussed. I think that was discussed. I think Rob from a lot of us
[2:37:03] Be sworn again, but that was significant we discussed before we got to the board
[2:37:10] Are you done?
[2:37:12] Okay.
[2:37:12] All right.
[2:37:14] I had a question.
[2:37:16] What other locations could the transformers be located?
[2:37:20] And what other locations do you consider?
[2:37:23] Because to have the right at the entrance and then having to cover the problem, I don't.
[2:37:29] I look at a lot of.
[2:37:30] I believe that was done extensively and that was the least offensive location for it. Best location and least offensive.
[2:37:39] At the end? Yes.
[2:37:43] I think that was the answer. Could it have been on plan east? You know along the highway or trees along there? I think that may be better answered by the architect.
[2:37:54] So we will reserve that question for them and
[2:38:04] tell me how did you all decide to do a water
[2:38:09] feature is there is it just aesthetics or is there other reason purely aesthetics yeah
[2:38:14] it's just that we wanted to make it a visual impact right right about a prominent location yeah
[2:38:23] You know, being a foreseason area, sometimes water futures look great in the summer and in the spring, but they don't look so great in the winter months.
[2:38:34] Well, that's the beauty of this one. If the water were to be turned off, if we still have the stepped architecture and beautiful landscape, so it was still be attractive, even if the water were turned off.
[2:38:44] right yeah would there be any consideration of just making it more green space there
[2:38:49] in and around the side I know I think there's ample green is all it's green all around it
[2:38:53] with the exception of those step area with the waterfall yeah understood but yeah I mean
[2:38:58] if the water was eliminate it could be more green sure
[2:39:02] are you asking do you not like the waterfall I'm sure I don't want to say that
[2:39:10] I'd like to discuss it with my board members.
[2:39:13] Just asking why.
[2:39:18] And the signs are large, but I think in context probably not a problem visually.
[2:39:29] I'm just, I'm surprised how large they are.
[2:39:31] Honestly, they're larger than what I'm accustomed to seeing.
[2:39:34] The other thing is, I just want to make sure they're not.
[2:39:38] going to be visually because you know once by that entrance and I think we touched on this but I don't
[2:39:43] know whether the signs were in the sightline discussion. They're not. No, there's no sightline structure.
[2:39:49] Those are in part in there when that was evaluated. The sightline date is their respective
[2:39:54] other sightlines. Yes. Okay. And then the one that is on the approach from Moore's turnpike,
[2:40:04] That definitely is at the corner and we are worried about pedestrians or worried about visibility
[2:40:09] and people banking that turn going faster than they should.
[2:40:12] If that was pulled up a little bit more, that would help with visualizing that bit of river roads
[2:40:21] sooner.
[2:40:22] Would that be possible?
[2:40:23] We can look at that again, but I think it's pretty close to where the retaining wall of
[2:40:26] the garage is.
[2:40:27] I don't know how much closer it can get to the garage.
[2:40:30] How much more visibility back in the future?
[2:40:33] And the guy we believe for example is a very nice.
[2:40:36] It looks like it definitely would impede your view of it.
[2:40:40] I don't think it doesn't pede the view.
[2:40:43] Obviously without the sign as you have more view,
[2:40:45] but I think there's ample view of the way with it.
[2:40:47] But would there be any downside to moving it up up the...
[2:40:52] Well, there is, as you know, if you drive that area on Mars Turnt,
[2:40:55] there is a directional sign that says JFK into the mall.
[2:41:01] There's a large sign right there.
[2:41:02] And there's a guardrail there, and it all runs along.
[2:41:05] Then there's a steep slope that goes down to the garage.
[2:41:07] So I think the location where we have it,
[2:41:10] respects all of those elements.
[2:41:12] So it couldn't be further up, you're saying,
[2:41:14] because they're, and it would then be behind the other
[2:41:16] directional sign, which was at the JFK Mall sign,
[2:41:21] the traffic sign, which I would use with that.
[2:41:23] Would be blocked sign, because you know how people are
[2:41:25] going to faint and come around there really fast.
[2:41:29] I mean, we can look at that as part of this.
[2:41:32] This double check-a when you're doing all the stress-dressed.
[2:41:34] Okay, great.
[2:41:36] There's my questions.
[2:41:37] Okay, next.
[2:41:39] Mr. Stern.
[2:41:40] I just have to.
[2:41:42] I think there's a utility line that runs on the eastern edge of the property.
[2:41:48] Where somebody's trees are kind of pillow it.
[2:41:50] Any concern as they grow?
[2:41:54] I don't think we're in conflict with the utility line, but we will be happy to check that.
[2:42:02] And then, are we going to address some more amount of events, ever?
[2:42:05] Not in relation to the place making plan or something?
[2:42:08] Well, Mr.ford did that extensively at the first meeting.
[2:42:13] I mean, if there's a follow-up question,
[2:42:16] I'd really question all the trees that you're going to be planning.
[2:42:18] How is that going to impact the drainage outside?
[2:42:21] Can you answer that time?
[2:42:22] Yeah, I don't think it has a, certainly it doesn't have any negative impact on drainage.
[2:42:25] know if anything would have a positive impact as if they were a
[2:42:30] doorboarder. Yeah I believe somebody did ask for just going to
[2:42:33] quantify the number of feature of it and what that provides when
[2:42:37] as a benefit so we can work well through that. And to the question
[2:42:41] about further questions we may have further questions at the last meeting
[2:42:47] for the engineer will he be in a tent. Yeah we've been bringing everybody
[2:42:50] back to everything just to make sure we have every basis. Great thank you.
[2:42:55] I guess the main question I have, I noticed on the pictures and it may be elsewhere in here.
[2:43:04] The sidewalk seems to go like two-thirds of the way around. Does it go all the way around?
[2:43:10] Please, there's sidewalk all the way around. It is all the way around.
[2:43:13] Yeah, yeah. Yeah, with the foliage I couldn't tell.
[2:43:16] Yeah, for sure.
[2:43:17] Good. Thank you. That was it. Mr. Sun.
[2:43:21] Just want to question about the water future. I presume you're recycling the water.
[2:43:24] I'm sorry, we are, you seem we're going to be recycling that water.
[2:43:27] Yes, we are.
[2:43:28] Yeah.
[2:43:28] I'm just not going to contribute to the call of urbanity or anything like that.
[2:43:30] That's correct.
[2:43:31] That's correct.
[2:43:31] All right.
[2:43:33] Thank you.
[2:43:34] Okay.
[2:43:36] Our professionals.
[2:43:38] Do you have any follow up questions?
[2:43:40] I do not.
[2:43:41] I have a few questions.
[2:43:43] Thank you.
[2:43:44] Good evening, Mr. Barron.
[2:43:46] Yes.
[2:43:46] With regard to that sign as the chair of woman just mentioned a moment ago, it might be beneficial
[2:43:53] So if you look at your last exhibit and I know the display is not on anymore, that one exhibit
[2:43:58] that shows that sign, it seemed to really, it's the sign closest to 24.
[2:44:05] And on that exhibit, it just seems like if we can study that sign and I know it was mentioned
[2:44:10] by the report to how he engineered to take a look at that, it just seemed to me that it may
[2:44:15] not be within the technical sight distance, but that to open up that view, just in case there's
[2:44:20] broken down off of that off-brand, things of that nature. It might just open up that view a little bit better, but I know
[2:44:26] you were trying to say with regard to another sign that I might conflict with. So if that's something that could be studied, that would be great.
[2:44:35] You had mentioned you had addressed all the foresters comments?
[2:44:37] We did. That's good. Thank you.
[2:44:40] Also, I hope some of the things I offer and maybe offer its questions don't conflict with his comments, but I know that he has the first right to comment on these things,
[2:44:48] but I myself as a landscape architect,
[2:44:50] I just wanted to offer some other insights.
[2:44:53] Staying on that, I guess we'll call
[2:44:55] a plan, easily side or the normally side of the building.
[2:44:58] I'm in that view.
[2:45:00] Where the retaining wall is for the parking garage, or the wall for the parking garage, wraps around.
[2:45:07] There are some plantings shown within it, it seems like the right away for route 24. Is that going to be something we viewed?
[2:45:14] To make sure we have the ability to plant within that area?
[2:45:20] I have to check to plan to see where the right away line is, so remind me where we did.
[2:45:25] Go back one more view.
[2:45:27] I appreciate seeing the perspective or the plan.
[2:45:29] In that area that's being servaled now on the exhibit?
[2:45:31] Okay. Oh, that's that area on Mars turn by. Right. Yeah, that's that's way down below up down the hill. That's well below the road elevation. Right, but it's within the right of way.
[2:45:41] Yes, it is. That's correct. It is within your right away in that area. You'll be checking to make sure you put the plant thing in there. We will. Yes. That's going to be important. I think it's a good idea to put planting there. I appreciate what you were trying to do. Yeah. Yeah. But obviously, would make sure we can keep it there. In addition to that, where that one gap is where the magnifying glass was a moment ago.
[2:46:01] That's there's a gap between the pink trees and I guess the sign location at the corner is there room in there to add a shade tree
[2:46:09] You're two on that side. I'm looking at the proximity of the mass of the structure to root 24 and trying to add some canopy in that area
[2:46:17] Is there space available in that area or there are other you can get sort of limit your ability?
[2:46:23] We'll check to you, Tony's, but I think there is area in there. We can add a few more shade trees in that area. Thank you. If you prefer
[2:46:29] Just to help with that side of the elevation, and it also correlates to the, I think you
[2:46:36] called it an intensive green roof, which is just the trays of green roof that you have on the,
[2:46:42] that's the objective.
[2:46:43] That's the objective.
[2:46:43] It's the trays.
[2:46:45] Excuse me.
[2:46:45] It was, it was, it was get that mixed up.
[2:46:47] On that side of the building, is there an opportunity with that space to add some possible
[2:46:53] planters with trees or with larger shrubs in there to offer some greenery to break up that facade of the building on that side because of the green roof area
[2:47:03] That's in that area. Is that something that the applicant might be willing to look at?
[2:47:06] We'll talk to them. The difficulty with that is maintenance from maintenance perspective because it's not easy
[2:47:11] Access to that area because it is all because of privacy. That's right for the correct work. Let's see them trade kind of thing
[2:47:18] really don't worry about it has it takes on a life of its own. But if we were to have trees and
[2:47:23] planters, they would need to be maintained. Okay. There's it just seems like an opportunity to
[2:47:27] do something on that side of the building. I just offer that for you. Going down River Road,
[2:47:33] sort of an counterclockwise direction down towards the Evergreen trees that are proposed to
[2:47:37] screen the transformer area. Yes. You have the gap in the sawed area, not at the entrance drive,
[2:47:42] but before the entrance drive right there is there an opportunity to put another shade tree in
[2:47:47] area what I'm looking at is I know what you originally had as your design for the mass of larger
[2:47:54] canopy trees and then you've added the evergreen trees in there which I appreciate and
[2:47:59] understand why you've done so but in those gaps just because of the size of the structure
[2:48:05] I'm trying to maximize the area for the shade trees as much as possible. It looks like one or two
[2:48:11] could be located in that area. We can always add more shade trees I just didn't want to
[2:48:15] Be it too many.
[2:48:17] Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[2:48:18] Save themselves out.
[2:48:19] Yes.
[2:48:20] Notice that you didn't actually use a large canopy size for the actual trees themselves, even
[2:48:26] though you're planting them at four to four and a half inch caliber, which is a on the upper
[2:48:31] and the largest size you can probably get from a nursery, a standard nursery.
[2:48:35] So I do appreciate your planting larger trees that normally, typically we see two and a half
[2:48:40] inch caliber.
[2:48:41] Yeah.
[2:48:41] There are four and a half inch caliber, which I appreciate.
[2:48:43] And then the evergreen trees there I know you mentioned sixty eight, but I believe everything starts at ten to twelve.
[2:48:49] Yeah, no, I didn't mention sixty eight. I said ten to twelve twelve to fourteen, even if it's fourteen to sixteen.
[2:48:54] You may have said sixty eight, but that's I just wanted to say if I did. I didn't mean to say eight to ten, ten, ten, ten, ten, ten, ten, ten, ten, ten, ten, ten, ten, ten, ten, ten, ten, ten.
[2:49:02] Eight to ten. And I just wanted to make sure the public knew that you're actually playing some larger trees.
[2:49:07] large bit of a treat that helps with the buffering okay let me see just
[2:49:12] continuing on towards the sign in the crosswalk area looking at the entrance and
[2:49:19] the site distance triangle it looks like the two kind of be trees on the
[2:49:23] plant based on the side of the entrance drive those two trees it looks like if you
[2:49:29] can move them towards the right hand side or towards the back just to get them
[2:49:35] of that site distance triangle. We can know you can see under kind of, you can see on it.
[2:49:39] That's right. The trunk over time sometimes blocks the view.
[2:49:42] But there's room to shift them. It looks like you have room to shift.
[2:49:44] Yes, there is. That'll be helpful.
[2:49:46] Also, honestly it looks narrower than in the plan for the fire truck turn. I don't know if it is,
[2:49:52] but it looks like it is. So, yeah, I think that's a good suggestion to move back a little.
[2:49:56] We're happy to shift those. Thank you. Now further down towards the west, if you keep going down
[2:50:02] of a road, the planting there all seems to make sense.
[2:50:06] The upper area next to the drop-off and pick-up location, where you have the three pink
[2:50:10] trees shown, they're in planters, I understand, that's on top of the roof structure for the
[2:50:15] cross.
[2:50:15] That's correct.
[2:50:17] Yes.
[2:50:17] There's also landscaping to the right at that island.
[2:50:22] I was trying to get a tree or two in there.
[2:50:24] My effort here is that that's one of the first corners you're going to see of the building
[2:50:29] as you're coming down wherever road.
[2:50:30] Is there an ability to add at least some more of the trees and planters at that entrance area on that island?
[2:50:38] Yeah, I thought how do I describe this at the closest location to the ramp that's going up to that upper drop off area?
[2:50:46] You see where it's that light green area?
[2:50:50] I apologize.
[2:50:50] I should approach the screen.
[2:50:54] Thank you.
[2:50:56] In this area?
[2:50:56] In that area?
[2:50:58] I know that's on top of the roof structure.
[2:51:00] I'm not sure if that's on the ground.
[2:51:01] That's on the ground.
[2:51:02] We're not, but if you can take a look at that, see if there's an opportunity there.
[2:51:07] Sure. Looking at the planting along the front edge of the wall and I appreciate what you're
[2:51:12] proposing and I understand the plant materials, all native grasses and shrub material.
[2:51:18] Can you look at areas where we could have some pockets of evergreen shrubs?
[2:51:23] The idea is that a lot of the planting here is all deciduous, mostly deciduous along that wall.
[2:51:29] I know you're doing large masses of high-drangier and things of that nature in that area.
[2:51:35] Is there an opportunity to help with the winter interest?
[2:51:38] I think that's something that the Board had mentioned, the seasonal interest of the streets.
[2:51:42] We can certainly do that.
[2:51:44] Thank you.
[2:51:44] Mr. Warner, I'm envisioning a condition that the landscape plan will be subject to the review of an approval of Mr. Snanket.
[2:51:51] Yeah, that's the best.
[2:51:53] At some point.
[2:51:54] That's our job.
[2:51:55] We don't have a chance to offer any comments.
[2:51:57] That's good.
[2:51:58] That's good.
[2:51:58] It's not a perimeter of the site.
[2:52:01] That's good.
[2:52:02] And actually, I can't.
[2:52:03] And everywhere else.
[2:52:04] I think almost done.
[2:52:06] I'm just kidding.
[2:52:07] No, I appreciate that.
[2:52:09] We often talk this way to each other.
[2:52:12] I appreciate that.
[2:52:14] We talked about the existing vegetation
[2:52:16] to remain on the long river road.
[2:52:18] I know you're going to be doing selective removal of the trees
[2:52:20] area obviously with the supervision of the city forester in the J.A.F.K.
[2:52:28] Right, a long J.F.K. Thank you.
[2:52:40] We're guarding the sign itself. I notice you do the horizontal signs on the monument signs themselves. Then we have the main identifier at the main entrance. It's a vertical element. Do you feel that's an appropriate configuration at that location compared to a horizontal monument sign?
[2:53:01] I'm looking at the verticality of the building on that view and you showed some perspectives which were very
[2:53:07] helpful in visualizing what was happening.
[2:53:10] Just in comparison, your professional opinions, landscape architect, the benefit of the
[2:53:15] vertical compared to a horizontal side.
[2:53:16] Yeah.
[2:53:17] In that case, I think the vertical is hopefully because of the dimension that we have to work with.
[2:53:22] We like it to be a two-sided sign.
[2:53:24] It's an our area.
[2:53:25] In fact, we do sit by widening the driveway for the loading zone.
[2:53:31] Right.
[2:53:32] So I think the vertical side in that case is appropriate.
[2:53:34] I guess the vertical side helps to identify the main entrance.
[2:53:37] Yes.
[2:53:37] That's right.
[2:53:38] That's right.
[2:53:44] In the interior of the outdoor space, I'm sorry.
[2:53:47] The outdoor spaces that are on top of the garage area.
[2:53:50] Next to the pool.
[2:53:52] I think you had mentioned there'll be some bananas.
[2:53:54] Will they reshade structures there as well?
[2:53:57] Yes.
[2:53:57] The bananas will have, the bananas are shaded.
[2:54:00] They are shaded structure.
[2:54:02] So there is shade provided in that area.
[2:54:04] Thank you very much, that's all the questions, I agree.
[2:54:06] Thank you very much.
[2:54:07] Thank you.
[2:54:08] Okay.
[2:54:10] So do we have any questions from the public?
[2:54:16] Hi.
[2:54:17] How are you?
[2:54:18] Lady Seagar's 60 Canoeberg Parkway.
[2:54:21] So several questions that came up when you were speaking.
[2:54:24] Thank you.
[2:54:25] I was going to move through them slowly.
[2:54:28] Yep.
[2:54:28] One has to do with water usage.
[2:54:31] So there's your photographer.
[2:54:32] I just asked him to speak in the morning.
[2:54:34] Okay.
[2:54:34] When has to do with water usage and I think you would mention last time that the building was based on
[2:54:41] 190 units and that would increase the water usage by about 6,000 gallons per day.
[2:54:48] When coming up with that number did you take into consideration that impacts of the pool,
[2:54:55] not sure how many gallons the pool is.
[2:54:57] So the pool on that gallons per day, even though it's three months out of the year,
[2:55:02] The need for watering these plants, how much water that perhaps will take in gallons per day
[2:55:08] and the water attraction, how much that will take in gallons per day.
[2:55:12] And I'm asking this because as I mentioned last time, our neighborhood has about one water
[2:55:17] main break a month and so it's important to us to understand how much water will be used by this
[2:55:24] new building.
[2:55:29] I know this was more in the civil engineering testimony, but since the last meeting we can make sure your engine has this week in firms that our building will be on a separate borderline than your properties.
[2:55:43] So anything that we're doing water laws will not impact the residential area.
[2:55:49] So it's a completely separate borderline.
[2:55:51] Okay, so is that in rating somewhere that we can see an access?
[2:55:54] We can provide that.
[2:55:55] Okay, thank you.
[2:55:57] And then some additional questions will trees be more like through the buffer sound, currently
[2:56:03] have already begun construction on the site and the noise is extremely loud at times that
[2:56:09] quite frankly is not supposed to be. So how does the how does the trees and the landscape
[2:56:14] been worked to buffer the sound coming out of the building? Well the trees will be planted after
[2:56:19] construction. Yeah, but I'm saying once people are in the building and there's garbage
[2:56:23] chalk, then move or move like that. All of those items are on the resident side of the building,
[2:56:30] meaning the people who live on Canoeberg Parkway and Iris Road, and how will those trees buffer
[2:56:34] that sound? That would be answered by a specialist in that field of sound. That wouldn't be
[2:56:43] me. In fact, I don't think trees buffer a lot of sound quite honestly. Historically, that's not the case.
[2:56:48] Okay, it's more out of sight as a mind.
[2:56:51] Okay, and I noticed in one of your renderings that the area on River Road had an elevated slope that came what it looked like down into River Road, which we'll go into the Muni, how would that impact storm water run off?
[2:57:06] We have quite a bit of flooding in the Muni in a net neighborhood.
[2:57:10] On the other hand, that would not be that would have been for Mr.ford, none of the grades on the property of change since we submitted the additional plans.
[2:57:20] But I think as the chairwoman mentioned, there might be other questions on stormwater later, so we'll be here at the next meeting and there is.
[2:57:28] Okay, and are you planning to keep all that signage lit on a long?
[2:57:33] I
[2:57:36] always get this wrong, which one's dusk and which one's gone, but it would be on, I guess when it gets dark out so.
[2:57:45] So all night, that sign would be lit, so potentially you could see it from your backyard, or your second bedroom window.
[2:57:52] I think I can find out the exact time, so I believe that's what it would be.
[2:57:55] Okay, so be lit at night, just to clarify.
[2:57:58] Yeah, the sign would be lit at night, but just great.
[2:58:01] And then you'd also mention that the reason the, sorry, not the generators, the transformers were put on the side of the building that they were chosen is because they're the least offensive in that space. Is that correct?
[2:58:16] To my knowledge, that's the best location for it. Again, I would ask the architect that maybe related to the availability.
[2:58:23] Okay.
[2:58:24] Okay.
[2:58:24] If you tell us within the building.
[2:58:25] Yeah.
[2:58:26] I believe the wording was least offensive.
[2:58:28] And I just am wondering least offensive to whom, because that is the side of the
[2:58:33] apartment building where we all live.
[2:58:36] And that's why it is buffered with landscape.
[2:58:38] Okay.
[2:58:39] And do you know the sound that a transformer puts off if any or anything like that?
[2:58:45] I don't know.
[2:58:45] But if it's regulated, we would have to comply with any regulations that would govern that
[2:58:53] I think I had one more question,
[2:58:59] would you consider a different lighting plan, if those
[2:59:05] lights were able to be seen from people's windows, maybe certain, maybe the ones facing
[2:59:10] the people who live on canoe brok, those lights are not kept on all night or, I'm sorry,
[2:59:15] it's one of my trip which lights used on the side of River Road, you have a huge sign that
[2:59:21] that's as banderly, and that will be lit all night long.
[2:59:25] You can recite the signs, the sign lighting.
[2:59:28] Okay.
[2:59:28] Very soft light.
[2:59:29] Very soft.
[2:59:30] Yeah.
[2:59:31] If you don't live across the street.
[2:59:33] Okay.
[2:59:34] I'm not trying to not answer your question,
[2:59:36] but that's really something I would have to ask the client.
[2:59:38] I don't know the answers.
[2:59:39] I'll just find that out.
[2:59:40] Okay.
[2:59:41] All right.
[2:59:42] And then can I ask a chat?
[2:59:43] It's question or no?
[2:59:46] It's okay if not.
[2:59:47] Okay.
[2:59:48] That's my question.
[2:59:48] Go ahead.
[2:59:49] Go ahead.
[2:59:49] And it's supposed to be for this person, is this still here?
[2:59:53] And it's not.
[2:59:54] You're hitting going around.
[2:59:57] Well, I guess this is, I don't know if this is a question
[2:59:59] for perhaps another.
[3:00:00] But in the event that the building were to be sold, what would happen to the shuttle, that takes people.
[3:00:08] You know what? That's a really good question actually.
[3:00:12] I think if it's a condition of the approval, and I believe it was in our settlement agreement as well, that it would
[3:00:18] rupture the land, the condition that was run with the land, and if somebody did buy it, I don't think this
[3:00:23] developers actually, they hold most of their properties. I don't even know where after they sell any.
[3:00:28] But they do sell some, I think.
[3:00:30] But it's a good question.
[3:00:32] And I would say it would probably run with the approval.
[3:00:34] Okay.
[3:00:35] That would be my answer.
[3:00:36] With the applicant, the willing with respects to some of not all in the court,
[3:00:43] can decide to have the conditions of the approval set forth in a
[3:00:50] deed restriction recorded in the county clerk's office.
[3:00:54] So it would put any subsequent purchaser or success or an
[3:00:59] on actual notice of what those conditions are, including, but not limited to the condition that this...
[3:01:08] I have never the public just stated.
[3:01:10] I'd have to ask the client that question.
[3:01:12] My only concern with that, and it's not that it's not to be bound by the conditions because we are,
[3:01:18] is that I know there's a case in law about if you make it a deed restriction,
[3:01:23] then not only if you have to modify something in the future,
[3:01:25] not only do you have to come back to the board, but I think you have to file a quiet title
[3:01:29] action. Also, I think that's the suit service that in no case. So it's maybe there's
[3:01:36] a way or in the alternative, uh, a recordation of the resolution itself. Yeah, that's what I think.
[3:01:43] Not indeed. Right. That's what I'm thinking. Something where it's entitled, but I have, again,
[3:01:47] I can't make that decision. I'd have to ask the client if they would, if that's something
[3:01:51] I'm going to add it to the list of questions.
[3:01:54] Thank you.
[3:01:55] Thank you.
[3:01:56] Thank you.
[3:01:59] Welcome back.
[3:02:00] Hi, Carly Moby.
[3:02:02] That's seven iris.
[3:02:03] Just a quick question this time.
[3:02:04] I'm actually just to follow up to Ms. Bowen's suggestion for lighting and visibility rendering,
[3:02:12] which is a great suggestion.
[3:02:14] I just want to be clear.
[3:02:16] I don't want anyone to dismiss how visible this is across the golf course.
[3:02:21] for noise and for lighting, my question would be the asks would be that for any follow-ups regarding
[3:02:31] lighting or visibility, it be conducted in fairness during fall or winter and adjustments we made after that when there's no leaves on the trees, which is most of you, so that would be nice, that's a good say that.
[3:02:45] Thanks, Carl.
[3:02:48] And is that something the applicant would stipulate to that any post for the light?
[3:02:52] Instruction and occupancy, lighting test would be done during the fall or winter months?
[3:03:00] Yeah, I don't think so.
[3:03:00] That's
[3:03:12] fine.
[3:03:20] I'm going to explain this later.
[3:03:24] Welcome back.
[3:03:25] Hi, down north in the 20 plane street.
[3:03:28] Your renderings are beautiful.
[3:03:31] Except, unfortunately, your television renderings do not show the second driveway.
[3:03:34] So I don't know if you're landscaping, schematics, will meet what you're showing us.
[3:03:41] They do show the second job.
[3:03:42] If you go to the, I guess it's still east side of the third project.
[3:03:48] There's no second drive way down.
[3:03:50] You can have to make a bigger.
[3:03:52] Oh, in the elevation?
[3:03:53] That's it.
[3:03:54] So there's no elevation.
[3:03:55] That's flat.
[3:03:58] Right?
[3:03:58] The driveway was up.
[3:04:04] The view is also there.
[3:04:05] The driveway has an elevation building.
[3:04:07] There's, there's a low point.
[3:04:09] I'm not in your city or there's a little point in the river.
[3:04:11] That's the right way.
[3:04:13] Yeah, let's come up here.
[3:04:15] So there's no elevation change from that point of the dryway to the secondary dryway.
[3:04:20] There's a, I know there's.
[3:04:21] Can you go back to the side?
[3:04:23] To back to the side?
[3:04:24] To back to the side.
[3:04:25] Yeah.
[3:04:27] So how did you, in the large area?
[3:04:30] Yeah.
[3:04:30] So is there elevation change from the main dryway to that one?
[3:04:35] Sure.
[3:04:35] Sure.
[3:04:36] This is good river roads going uphill and this is also going uphill.
[3:04:39] So in this rendering the driveways there,
[3:04:43] if you go to other elevations of that side,
[3:04:47] with the exception of the one you just showed in this flat,
[3:04:49] there's no depiction of that driveway in the landscaping around it,
[3:04:53] other than this.
[3:04:55] So you have shown elevation in this particular drawing.
[3:04:58] So I don't know how accurate your drawing is going to be,
[3:05:00] or your final problem is going to be as far,
[3:05:04] also as long as you run this picture,
[3:05:06] And that little red part is there, and that pink dot, what is that?
[3:05:11] That's a flowering tree.
[3:05:13] So that's planted there.
[3:05:14] That's right.
[3:05:15] Is that a drivable curb?
[3:05:16] Can you drive over the curb there?
[3:05:18] Over this curb?
[3:05:19] Yeah.
[3:05:19] I'm not.
[3:05:20] So I'm going to have to disperse.
[3:05:22] Raise plantars.
[3:05:24] You will drive this direction.
[3:05:25] So I'm going to have to disperse with a traffic expert.
[3:05:29] That a fire apparatus is going to make that turn.
[3:05:34] I mean, he's always there a way to remove that tree.
[3:05:36] I know you spoke for the experts and you said that they discussed the four hours just turn what was the result
[3:05:41] So that again
[3:05:43] You said to try to get for a city you can make this turn into the front of the building
[3:05:47] So if you know if we know the width of the drive one there, we don't believe it's 24 feet
[3:05:53] 24
[3:05:55] How long a lot of it?
[3:05:57] Yeah,
[3:06:01] Craig just come back and just answer that question. So that
[3:06:04] Tom shouldn't be the one that answers that question.
[3:06:06] I agree.
[3:06:07] Greg, can you just answer that question?
[3:06:10] Do you have any issue with the truck circulating with the planting?
[3:06:14] Is the way that they're situated?
[3:06:15] No, we should be exhibit earlier with the fire truck.
[3:06:19] We'll make you it in.
[3:06:20] And that incorporates the plantings.
[3:06:22] Plandings are not in the road, so yeah.
[3:06:24] So is there any, would there be any concern?
[3:06:26] I'm just asking.
[3:06:28] Guys, I'm not at the expert in this whole thing, but it's a nice suggestion.
[3:06:31] We're just trying to answer your question.
[3:06:32] Would there be any consideration to maybe have an a drivable curve?
[3:06:37] Craig, is there anything for that?
[3:06:38] Based on what you've felt that?
[3:06:41] On JFK Parkway.
[3:06:44] We talked about the elevation of the heights of the trees.
[3:06:48] Perfect trees.
[3:06:51] Yes.
[3:06:53] The corner of the building, the touches, the trees there,
[3:06:56] kind of where it says, no the other end.
[3:06:59] Right there?
[3:07:00] What's anticipated to be planted there?
[3:07:03] Nothing.
[3:07:03] That's existing vegetation.
[3:07:05] How high is that now?
[3:07:06] About 30, 40, 50 feet.
[3:07:11] I think we know the answer to the question.
[3:07:12] I thank you.
[3:07:13] Thank you.
[3:07:15] Okay.
[3:07:18] I think we need to stop because we're well beyond 10, 30.
[3:07:21] Thank you very much.
[3:07:23] Thank you.
[3:07:23] Do you want to confirm that there's no further questions for this particular week?
[3:07:26] Does not look like there are any further questions.
[3:07:28] So then we can close this question.
[3:07:35] Okay. No, that's fine. I just want to...
[3:07:37] We have a resolution. That's okay. I just want to, I guess, two things before we leave. One will be the new date, which we have to establish.
[3:07:45] The other, though, is on this traffic, you know, update that you're asking us to do.
[3:07:52] So again, I'm going to say something that's not very popular, but it's a permitted use.
[3:07:57] off-site traffic is not something for the board to consider. We went above and beyond doing these
[3:08:03] additional studies, we would have had to do them, we did the for the county for the DOT and for the
[3:08:08] city, and they did not reveal any significant impact in the New Jason area. But if the board still
[3:08:17] wants us to verify some of these items, whether it's the school traffic time or count again we will,
[3:08:24] But I want to do it at a time when everybody feels it's appropriate, so I want to actually look at the calendar and I want to pick a date where we're not coming back and somebody says, well, we're not comfortable with the date that you chose.
[3:08:37] So school is starting in two weeks. I have two high school kids myself, so I know. So my understanding is that summit schools will start right after Labor Day or maybe there's some half days there.
[3:08:51] So if we count it, if we counted the week of September 14th, which is schools are already going their full days,
[3:09:01] I will make sure there's no, I will also make sure there's no Jewish holidays, though.
[3:09:07] I'll check when Russia is trying to own a young kipper.
[3:09:09] I will check that.
[3:09:11] But assuming that there's no Jewish holidays and that those are just regular days,
[3:09:16] is everybody comfortable with us counting those days?
[3:09:18] Like everybody comfortable?
[3:09:21] Obviously, it is weather conditions for permitting, I understand that.
[3:09:26] Yeah.
[3:09:26] That sounds good to me.
[3:09:34] I'm asking the board.
[3:09:36] I'm asking the board.
[3:09:37] I'm asking the board.
[3:09:40] Is the best one?
[3:09:41] I'm not a hot one.
[3:09:42] Yep.
[3:09:45] There are flexible as far as as long as we can get it.
[3:09:48] You know, with a little bit of notice before the next meeting.
[3:09:50] Yeah.
[3:09:50] No, I want to make sure that it's submitted so that your professionals can review it and then in the meantime
[3:09:56] We'll also meet with the board engineer and the police hopefully to work on those crosswalk and also the pedestrian connection issues
[3:10:04] Yes, that's really important. Okay, and I have the other notes, but I won't go through them all because they'll take too much time
[3:10:09] Okay, well, thank you
[3:10:11] What a date. Oh, yeah, the date. Yeah, so once you're next meeting
[3:10:21] Is it in the 20?
[3:10:24] Yeah.
[3:10:27] We don't have a lot of money.
[3:10:28] We don't have a lot of money.
[3:10:29] We don't have a lot of money.
[3:10:30] We don't have a lot of money.
[3:10:30] Is it really 20?
[3:10:31] Oh, it's 10.
[3:10:33] You should come from this.
[3:10:36] Yeah.
[3:10:36] That's right.
[3:10:37] I can come from the month.
[3:10:38] Yes.
[3:10:39] September 28.
[3:10:40] Yeah.
[3:10:41] Yeah.
[3:10:41] We'll make the announcement.
[3:10:42] I'm just checking.
[3:10:43] Because we talked about Jewish holidays.
[3:10:44] I'm just checking to make sure.
[3:10:46] No, we're good.
[3:10:47] Okay.
[3:10:52] And we'll give an extension of time a little further so we'll tie it on that night.
[3:10:59] I gave you this as a 30 at the last time.
[3:11:01] How much are you going to give me this time?
[3:11:03] I got it.
[3:11:04] Let me just ask the client.
[3:11:30] Okay.
[3:11:31] So whatever.
[3:11:32] I'll throw it over there first.
[3:11:34] Oh, sure.
[3:11:35] Yeah.
[3:11:35] Twist my arms.
[3:11:36] Okay.
[3:11:38] the time to act extended October 31st, yeah that's not the date of the meeting but that's not the date of the meeting
[3:11:47] the next meeting September 28th
[3:11:50] continue without further notice the September 28th, 730 p.m. right here in
[3:11:56] September 28th, 2026, 2026, 730 p.m. in this room no further notice
[3:12:06] Okay.
[3:12:06] Okay.
[3:12:06] Get a punch.
[3:12:08] All right.
[3:12:09] Thank you, everybody.
[3:12:09] We have some more things.
[3:12:11] Thank you, everyone.
[3:12:12] And we're going to get to our resolution.
[3:12:43] Okay.
[3:12:50] We're just going to have a little more public business to do, so if everyone can please
[3:12:53] be quiet at UX and I can.
[3:13:03] Yeah, thank you.
[3:13:09] Thank you.
[3:13:10] Thank you.
[3:13:12] Thank you.
[3:13:12] I'm safe.
[3:13:14] I'm safe.
[3:13:14] Long night.
[3:13:19] Not long.
[3:13:21] Those people are dead.
[3:13:23] This one doesn't understand.
[3:13:24] We are going to the house, where we can go, and it's a big space.
[3:13:33] Yes, I quite have this old.
[3:13:35] Oh there's a door in the house.
[3:13:36] You can see the door and the door, too, is a place full of people here.
[3:13:45] Do you have aこんにちは?
[3:13:49] Hello?
[3:13:50] You can see the door.
[3:13:51] The door is a door.
[3:13:51] There you go, there, you can see it.
[3:13:52] Here you go.
[3:13:52] Here you go, there you go.
[3:13:53] Here, you can see it, there you go.
[3:13:53] We can see it.
[3:14:00] Okay.
[3:14:03] Okay.
[3:14:04] Okay.
[3:14:05] Okay.
[3:14:08] Okay.
[3:14:09] So, yeah.
[3:14:10] Welcome back.
[3:14:12] Okay.
[3:14:17] Yeah.
[3:14:18] So, we have a resolution for us.
[3:14:23] for 5, 27 more Saturday, Temple Hill Associates,
[3:14:27] and I'd like to know if anybody has any changes
[3:14:31] at its errors that you found when you wrote it.
[3:14:37] I don't think I did.
[3:14:40] Just a little checking.
[3:14:41] My circles.
[3:14:44] Oh, I did have one question.
[3:14:45] Do we say 12 a.m.
[3:14:46] I think we did for turning off the lights
[3:14:50] at that location a more sub?
[3:14:51] I think we said 12 a.m.
[3:14:53] Because by then, it was all that it was always.
[3:14:55] I thought it was a lot.
[3:14:56] We've got an hour and a half of it.
[3:14:58] We've been together.
[3:15:02] Yeah, I think that's okay. They closed the moment. I just have a question.
[3:15:07] It doesn't have a page on my name, I'm so sorry. But it is here.
[3:15:11] What can they do? Three, three, three.
[3:15:15] Yep.
[3:15:18] That's what I, I just wanted to make sure everybody recalls the same thing.
[3:15:23] It's all the time, right? Everybody remember that? Okay, you can.
[3:15:26] That was my only question. This is a question.
[3:15:28] All right.
[3:15:29] Oh, this goes back.
[3:15:30] Yeah.
[3:15:31] Does anybody know what it says in there about the sidewalk?
[3:15:34] I know they had to go to the county.
[3:15:35] It says that they're going to go to the city to get a approval for that that can
[3:15:41] continue.
[3:15:42] But they were saying that the concrete wasn't like the right.
[3:15:46] It was like the older types so they were going to go to the county and they're waiting
[3:15:48] to go to the county.
[3:15:49] Oh, you can tell me about the curb.
[3:15:51] Yeah, I'm talking about like that.
[3:15:51] That's not the stair on the sidewalk.
[3:15:54] The city's right away.
[3:15:55] a lot more.
[3:16:09] I don't know if we made an official condition or not.
[3:16:13] Was that something that was contained in one of the reports?
[3:16:18] Sometimes conditions come right out of a word a little bit.
[3:16:22] I just want to make sure it's memorialized, if not, we should maybe put it to the next meeting.
[3:16:27] Wasn't there remember?
[3:16:28] I don't like computer, I like it.
[3:16:29] That's okay.
[3:16:30] Oh, I'm so sorry.
[3:16:31] No, it's okay.
[3:16:32] I just, I drove by in the sidewalk, it was like,
[3:16:34] Number seven says the aforementioned approval shall be subject to all state,
[3:16:38] county and city statues, ordinance, rules, regulations,
[3:16:40] effecting development in the city, county and state.
[3:16:42] That might cover the leg of the, they have rules about the,
[3:16:46] the sidewalk and it came up from the county, correct?
[3:16:48] Well, why don't we get the following to three subsection five and I'm sorry that is we be specific on that we're way the
[3:16:58] pervocations.
[3:16:59] Morris.
[3:17:00] I guess all of it really was discussed at the last meeting and it was a county issue, not a city
[3:17:07] issue.
[3:17:09] So what I recall is that the county is going to resolve it with the applicant.
[3:17:15] With the applicant.
[3:17:16] It's not a city issue.
[3:17:17] And we have it in 7.
[3:17:19] Yeah.
[3:17:21] So I think we're good.
[3:17:23] All right.
[3:17:24] Any other changes questions?
[3:17:28] And if not, you can always call the camera.
[3:17:32] A motion to approve.
[3:17:34] Some of them.
[3:17:35] Is that okay?
[3:17:37] Okay.
[3:17:37] And you have them.
[3:17:38] I think everybody was here last time.
[3:17:40] Yes.
[3:17:40] The only one who's not eligible is Mr. Goldie.
[3:17:42] We'll call the camera.
[3:17:47] Yes.
[3:17:48] Yes.
[3:17:48] Ms. Bowen?
[3:17:48] Yes.
[3:17:49] Council Member Chris Affoli?
[3:17:50] Yes.
[3:17:51] Mr. Almoso?
[3:17:52] Yes.
[3:17:52] Ms. Morrison?
[3:17:54] Mr. Stern?
[3:17:55] Yes.
[3:17:55] Mr. Stomton?
[3:17:56] Yes.
[3:17:57] Chair Balson over it.
[3:18:00] We can do the regular and closed session as one motion since it's the same.
[3:18:09] Yeah.
[3:18:10] Work members for each of the three dates.
[3:18:12] I actually want to just table a June 4th because I have a question, I have something
[3:18:19] I have to check for June 4th, so let's just do March 23rd and April 27th, okay?
[3:18:28] So first...
[3:18:28] First...
[3:18:28] Do you watch 23rd first?
[3:18:30] Yes.
[3:18:32] Do we have any edits or errors?
[3:18:35] Do we have to notice anything?
[3:18:36] I'm fine.
[3:18:37] We're going to...
[3:18:38] Okay.
[3:18:39] And on the closed session as well,
[3:18:41] I'm glad you changed.
[3:18:42] It doesn't say anything.
[3:18:43] Thank you.
[3:18:44] Um, so, I'm sorry.
[3:18:46] It's not a good thing.
[3:18:47] I'm sorry.
[3:18:47] Motion to approve.
[3:18:49] So moved.
[3:18:50] Second.
[3:18:51] Absolutely.
[3:18:52] We have three members who were not there that night on March 23rd.
[3:18:56] So the eligible voting members are chair balls in Alvarez, Ms. Bowen, Council Member
[3:19:00] Chris Affoli, Mr. Dalmasso, Ms. Morrison, Mr. Stern and Mr. Golden.
[3:19:05] So, Augustos the motion.
[3:19:07] Could we get a second?
[3:19:07] Second.
[3:19:09] Thank you.
[3:19:10] All in favor?
[3:19:10] Hi. Any opposed? Thank you. And then next up are the meeting minutes from April 27,
[3:19:19] 26, regular and close session. The eligible voting members are chair boss and Alvarez,
[3:19:24] Vice Chair Hamlet, Ms. Bowen, Council Member Chrisifoli, Mr. Tomasso, Ms. Morrison, Mr.
[3:19:30] Stern and Mr. Golden, were there any edits?
[3:19:35] I don't have any.
[3:19:38] Okay, so motion to approve.
[3:19:40] So moved.
[3:19:42] Second.
[3:19:44] All in favour?
[3:19:45] Aye.
[3:19:46] Any opposed?
[3:19:48] Motion to end the meeting.
[3:19:51] So we'll talk a bit.
[3:19:52] Thanks so much.
[3:19:53] Second.
[3:19:55] Thank you everybody.
[3:19:56] Try to see.