1 00:00:15,270 --> 00:00:16,800 - Josh, would you please take the role? 2 00:00:17,930 --> 00:00:19,170 - Bremmer? - Aye. 3 00:00:19,470 --> 00:00:23,970 - Here. Dreyer. Here. Iker. - Here. 4 00:00:25,170 --> 00:00:28,970 - Horton. Here. Kajabi. Here. 5 00:00:30,070 --> 00:00:34,800 Rosa. Here. Stalker. Here. Virgil? 6 00:00:36,000 --> 00:00:38,630 Here. We have eight. For eight. We have a quorum. 7 00:00:38,670 --> 00:00:39,670 - Good. We have quorum. 8 00:00:40,030 --> 00:00:42,200 If you're able, would you please stand and join me? 9 00:00:42,200 --> 00:00:43,230 In the pledge of Allegiance, 10 00:00:46,630 --> 00:00:48,200 - I pledge allegiance to the flag 11 00:00:48,670 --> 00:00:50,170 of the United States of America 12 00:00:51,000 --> 00:00:52,930 and to the republic for which it stands, 13 00:00:53,830 --> 00:00:57,300 one nation under God, indivisible, with LIBERTY 14 00:00:57,500 --> 00:00:58,630 and justice for all 15 00:01:01,670 --> 00:01:02,670 - Stankey. 16 00:01:02,670 --> 00:01:03,800 Next item is the approval 17 00:01:03,800 --> 00:01:07,070 of the minutes from July 14th, 2026. 18 00:01:08,000 --> 00:01:12,170 Entertain a motion to approve. Do I have a second? 19 00:01:12,970 --> 00:01:15,970 - Second. Second. - Okay, we have a motion to second. 20 00:01:16,470 --> 00:01:18,930 Any discussion? Any changes on those minutes? 21 00:01:21,870 --> 00:01:23,170 Okay, hearing none. All in favor 22 00:01:23,170 --> 00:01:25,830 of approving the minutes from July 14th, 2026. 23 00:01:25,830 --> 00:01:29,570 Please signify by saying aye. Aye. Aye. Aye. Opposed? 24 00:01:29,700 --> 00:01:34,670 Same sign. Okay. They are approved. 25 00:01:34,970 --> 00:01:37,170 Next item, citizen appearance and public comment. 26 00:01:38,070 --> 00:01:39,200 If anybody is here 27 00:01:39,300 --> 00:01:42,930 or in the audience for anything other than the 28 00:01:44,470 --> 00:01:48,070 data center discussion tonight, please come forward. 29 00:01:48,030 --> 00:01:53,000 Now, I don't see anybody and I don't hear anybody. 30 00:01:53,230 --> 00:01:54,930 Okay. No unfinished business. 31 00:01:54,970 --> 00:01:56,630 We will move on to new business. 32 00:01:57,100 --> 00:01:59,700 And tonight this is designated as a public hearing 33 00:02:00,500 --> 00:02:02,570 and is requesting approval of an ordinance 34 00:02:02,570 --> 00:02:05,170 to amend Title 19 zoning 35 00:02:05,800 --> 00:02:07,600 to define data center uses 36 00:02:07,970 --> 00:02:11,170 and enact a temporary moratorium on the consideration 37 00:02:11,270 --> 00:02:15,470 or issuance of zoning permits For that use, Josh, 38 00:02:15,630 --> 00:02:16,970 I'll turn it over to you please. 39 00:02:17,930 --> 00:02:20,800 - Stankey, worry about getting my screen shared. 40 00:02:29,400 --> 00:02:32,630 Here we are. So as you, you introduced, 41 00:02:32,670 --> 00:02:35,930 this is a public hearing for zoning ordinance. 42 00:02:36,830 --> 00:02:40,170 The effect would be to create a moratorium for 43 00:02:40,970 --> 00:02:41,930 data center uses 44 00:02:42,830 --> 00:02:47,100 and introduce a brief overview of the work 45 00:02:47,100 --> 00:02:50,700 of the our staff data center committee that's been, 46 00:02:50,700 --> 00:02:52,200 or work group that's been working on this 47 00:02:52,300 --> 00:02:54,030 for the past several months. 48 00:02:54,830 --> 00:02:58,500 And then kind of explain a little bit about how we got here 49 00:02:58,600 --> 00:03:00,030 and where, where it goes next. 50 00:03:01,930 --> 00:03:05,230 So at a high level, the data centers have been 51 00:03:05,230 --> 00:03:09,230 around in some form or function really sense. 52 00:03:09,230 --> 00:03:12,030 The telephone. The, the data center is kind of an evolution 53 00:03:12,200 --> 00:03:15,230 of the switchboard, where it's a place 54 00:03:15,230 --> 00:03:16,470 where all the wires go. 55 00:03:16,500 --> 00:03:18,970 When we, when we send a signal from our phones, 56 00:03:19,270 --> 00:03:22,000 our computers, et cetera, you're communicating 57 00:03:22,000 --> 00:03:23,500 with a computer somewhere else. 58 00:03:24,270 --> 00:03:27,970 That somewhere else is often a centralized location such 59 00:03:27,970 --> 00:03:29,930 as a data center where you're se sending a query 60 00:03:30,030 --> 00:03:31,170 to retrieve something 61 00:03:31,800 --> 00:03:33,500 or to connect you with a, 62 00:03:33,500 --> 00:03:35,200 with a subsequent computer somewhere else. 63 00:03:36,030 --> 00:03:38,170 Nearly everything in the digital cloud exists. 64 00:03:38,230 --> 00:03:39,970 Well, everything on the digital cloud exists in 65 00:03:40,200 --> 00:03:41,270 hardware somewhere. 66 00:03:42,170 --> 00:03:45,970 Again, whether it's a picture, it's a, you know, a book, 67 00:03:46,830 --> 00:03:48,200 it's your software that's running, 68 00:03:48,270 --> 00:03:50,430 that's extensively running on your computer. 69 00:03:50,630 --> 00:03:52,030 A lot of those things are communicating 70 00:03:52,030 --> 00:03:53,800 with an offsite source. 71 00:03:54,970 --> 00:03:57,930 And in particular, our phones are, a lot of the things 72 00:03:57,930 --> 00:04:01,400 that they do are communicating with the cloud actively. 73 00:04:01,500 --> 00:04:02,400 A lot of the computing 74 00:04:02,400 --> 00:04:03,770 doesn't actually happen on your device. 75 00:04:03,930 --> 00:04:06,000 It's happening in a server farm somewhere. 76 00:04:07,070 --> 00:04:09,970 The scope and power of these facilities have been growing 77 00:04:10,230 --> 00:04:11,500 geometrically for decades. 78 00:04:11,800 --> 00:04:15,300 So if you, if you look into this, the, the, both the, the 79 00:04:16,000 --> 00:04:18,270 computing power, the square footage, et cetera, has been, 80 00:04:18,930 --> 00:04:21,430 has been going up geometrically. 81 00:04:22,070 --> 00:04:23,770 And we've had data centers in this region 82 00:04:23,870 --> 00:04:25,200 for at least a couple of decades. 83 00:04:25,430 --> 00:04:26,970 The university probably even longer. 84 00:04:28,000 --> 00:04:31,070 What's really changed in the last few years is just the size 85 00:04:31,600 --> 00:04:34,930 and, and the amount of, of resources that they consume. 86 00:04:35,100 --> 00:04:39,030 Some of it's related to the change in 87 00:04:39,070 --> 00:04:40,930 how we're using the artificial intelligence, 88 00:04:40,930 --> 00:04:44,300 and some of it's due to other cloud-based functions such 89 00:04:44,300 --> 00:04:46,230 as Amazon Cloud 90 00:04:46,270 --> 00:04:50,470 and other similar services that are highly centralized. 91 00:04:51,270 --> 00:04:52,930 These are called hyperscale facilities. 92 00:04:52,930 --> 00:04:54,670 These very large data centers. 93 00:04:57,230 --> 00:04:59,030 There's no single definition 94 00:04:59,100 --> 00:05:02,970 for when one becomes a hyperscale data center versus others. 95 00:05:03,430 --> 00:05:05,030 This is a collection 96 00:05:06,270 --> 00:05:08,870 summarizing from several industry sources. 97 00:05:09,430 --> 00:05:11,430 Again, there's, it's fuzzy kind 98 00:05:11,430 --> 00:05:13,430 of like when you pass from one type to another, 99 00:05:14,230 --> 00:05:15,800 but it helps to kind of describe that. 100 00:05:15,800 --> 00:05:17,000 Yes, there are many different types 101 00:05:17,170 --> 00:05:18,430 of data centers out there. 102 00:05:19,070 --> 00:05:21,200 We, yes, we still are building things 103 00:05:21,200 --> 00:05:24,300 that are not the hyperscale ones, but the, 104 00:05:24,400 --> 00:05:26,230 but the hyperscale ones are the ones 105 00:05:26,230 --> 00:05:29,230 that are generally causing the attention. 106 00:05:30,000 --> 00:05:33,400 In recent years, these facilities can be hundreds 107 00:05:33,400 --> 00:05:34,670 of thousands of square feet 108 00:05:35,970 --> 00:05:38,930 and draw 100 megawatts 109 00:05:38,930 --> 00:05:41,170 or more, you know, for an order of magnitude. 110 00:05:41,470 --> 00:05:46,000 That is a power draw of a small city to run these facilities 111 00:05:47,500 --> 00:05:51,000 on the large, on the high end, some of the key. 112 00:05:52,930 --> 00:05:55,930 You have a question, Al Alder Virgil or Commissioner Virgil? 113 00:05:57,300 --> 00:05:59,430 - No, I apologize. - All right. 114 00:05:59,970 --> 00:06:02,200 So some, some of the key issues, resource consumption, 115 00:06:02,200 --> 00:06:05,030 both energy and water directly and indirectly. 116 00:06:06,200 --> 00:06:08,570 For example, depending on the type of energy 117 00:06:08,630 --> 00:06:11,070 or what the, what kind of either direct 118 00:06:11,100 --> 00:06:12,970 or grid based power they're using, 119 00:06:12,970 --> 00:06:15,670 there can be a pretty significant water consumption 120 00:06:16,400 --> 00:06:18,930 depending on what kind of power you're, you're drawing. 121 00:06:20,870 --> 00:06:23,930 There's nuisance emissions such as noise, vibration, 122 00:06:23,930 --> 00:06:26,030 lights and air pollution. 123 00:06:26,030 --> 00:06:28,000 Again, depending on what kind of power they're using. 124 00:06:29,600 --> 00:06:33,470 There's city and regional design challenges pretty similar 125 00:06:33,630 --> 00:06:36,570 to other large campuses in this effect. 126 00:06:36,700 --> 00:06:41,100 So they, the large data centers can, can require hundreds 127 00:06:41,200 --> 00:06:42,800 and sometimes thousands of acres. 128 00:06:43,230 --> 00:06:45,970 Makes it very difficult to function a city 129 00:06:45,970 --> 00:06:48,070 and region around these things. 130 00:06:48,430 --> 00:06:49,600 'cause they don't want roads through them. 131 00:06:49,700 --> 00:06:52,000 So you, they have to route utilities streets, 132 00:06:52,100 --> 00:06:53,100 et cetera around them. 133 00:06:54,200 --> 00:06:55,470 Very difficult to do. 134 00:06:56,400 --> 00:06:57,930 Also makes 'em difficult to, to locate 135 00:06:57,930 --> 00:07:00,030 because they need a lot of, of contiguous property 136 00:07:02,030 --> 00:07:03,030 and then public sentiment. 137 00:07:03,100 --> 00:07:05,830 So unlike many other uses, some, 138 00:07:05,830 --> 00:07:07,270 some other uses we have in our region 139 00:07:07,300 --> 00:07:09,770 that consume significant power 140 00:07:09,870 --> 00:07:12,470 and significant water, they tend not to have the, 141 00:07:12,600 --> 00:07:15,370 the public sentiment associated with them. 142 00:07:17,000 --> 00:07:19,370 It's either, it can be directly related to 143 00:07:19,370 --> 00:07:20,500 what the facility is doing 144 00:07:20,600 --> 00:07:22,500 or it could be who owns the facility and, 145 00:07:22,600 --> 00:07:25,070 and kind of pe people's perceptions of those companies. 146 00:07:25,970 --> 00:07:28,970 So it can be very difficult to talk about the, these issues 147 00:07:29,370 --> 00:07:33,700 because it can kind of quickly goes into, so all the strings 148 00:07:33,700 --> 00:07:37,300 that are attached from a city of Sun Prairie perspective, 149 00:07:37,300 --> 00:07:40,230 many of these issues relate to our adopted plans 150 00:07:40,230 --> 00:07:42,570 and goals found in our comprehensive plan, 151 00:07:42,570 --> 00:07:43,570 our climate action plan. 152 00:07:43,570 --> 00:07:45,270 In other places, some 153 00:07:45,270 --> 00:07:46,970 of these things we know are in conflict. 154 00:07:46,970 --> 00:07:49,300 Some of these things are just, we're silent about 155 00:07:49,300 --> 00:07:51,030 because we have not considered planning 156 00:07:51,100 --> 00:07:52,800 for a facility of this type or size. 157 00:07:55,570 --> 00:07:57,970 Again, into our context, here is an image 158 00:07:58,100 --> 00:07:59,670 of the current transmission 159 00:07:59,700 --> 00:08:01,700 of the high voltage transmission in our region. 160 00:08:02,370 --> 00:08:04,870 You can go onto the American Transmission Company website 161 00:08:04,870 --> 00:08:06,970 and find a version of this. 162 00:08:06,970 --> 00:08:08,370 This is taken directly from there. 163 00:08:09,070 --> 00:08:11,630 As you can see, the northeast part of Dane County, 164 00:08:12,030 --> 00:08:15,670 the green lines are 69 kilovolt lines. 165 00:08:16,800 --> 00:08:18,700 The, those are the ones you, you see as you drive 166 00:08:18,700 --> 00:08:21,230 around the, and serve 167 00:08:21,970 --> 00:08:23,930 our typical users. 168 00:08:24,770 --> 00:08:27,600 What we would consider to be like the threshold 169 00:08:27,600 --> 00:08:30,370 of really needing anything besides a smaller data center 170 00:08:30,370 --> 00:08:31,870 or a smaller industrial user. 171 00:08:32,930 --> 00:08:33,970 Those would be like the black 172 00:08:33,970 --> 00:08:36,400 and the red lines, particularly the red wines. 173 00:08:36,400 --> 00:08:40,670 Those are 345 kilovolt. They're not near us. 174 00:08:41,230 --> 00:08:43,570 The, the closest one is either in Waterloo 175 00:08:44,070 --> 00:08:45,630 or up near North Madison. 176 00:08:46,170 --> 00:08:47,970 The, and for reference, the North Madison 177 00:08:48,470 --> 00:08:51,630 substation up there is where the QTS facility was proposed 178 00:08:51,800 --> 00:08:55,570 and it was proposed there because of the transmission, also 179 00:08:55,570 --> 00:08:56,630 because they had property, 180 00:08:56,630 --> 00:08:58,000 but the transmission was critical. 181 00:08:58,000 --> 00:08:59,070 They had the substation there, 182 00:08:59,970 --> 00:09:03,270 therefore they were proposing to locate in that location. 183 00:09:03,630 --> 00:09:07,700 So we could potentially support a, an industrial user 184 00:09:07,970 --> 00:09:10,030 that might require 10 megawatts, whether 185 00:09:10,030 --> 00:09:13,000 that's a food manufacturer or a small data center 186 00:09:13,100 --> 00:09:14,170 or something like that 187 00:09:14,770 --> 00:09:17,000 with these existing 69 kilovolt lines. 188 00:09:17,630 --> 00:09:19,030 But really anything much bigger than that, 189 00:09:19,170 --> 00:09:20,470 we don't have the transmission. 190 00:09:21,030 --> 00:09:22,970 So they'd either needed to go somewhere else 191 00:09:23,300 --> 00:09:27,630 or they would need to improve the transmission in our 192 00:09:27,630 --> 00:09:30,500 region, which takes a a very long time. 193 00:09:32,930 --> 00:09:36,000 So what, where we're at today is we're reporting out from 194 00:09:36,000 --> 00:09:37,870 the, the, the staff work group 195 00:09:37,870 --> 00:09:39,400 that's been working since about October 196 00:09:39,800 --> 00:09:40,970 or November of last year. 197 00:09:41,870 --> 00:09:45,200 And earlier this same year, there was a 198 00:09:46,700 --> 00:09:48,770 referral to consider a moratorium. 199 00:09:49,070 --> 00:09:51,230 So that's the particular item that's 200 00:09:51,230 --> 00:09:52,700 before you to vote upon. 201 00:09:53,830 --> 00:09:56,270 What would do you is not allow applications 202 00:09:56,370 --> 00:10:00,000 or issuances of zoning permits for, for up to 12 months. 203 00:10:00,430 --> 00:10:02,700 So moratoriums are uncommon, 204 00:10:02,770 --> 00:10:06,230 but it is an existing tool that is used seldom, 205 00:10:07,370 --> 00:10:09,870 typically in a situation similar to this one, 206 00:10:09,870 --> 00:10:12,270 where an issue has emerged might be moving quickly. 207 00:10:13,030 --> 00:10:14,230 And we're concerned that our plans 208 00:10:14,270 --> 00:10:16,270 or ordinances don't adequately address it. 209 00:10:16,830 --> 00:10:19,030 It allows us to pause until 210 00:10:20,770 --> 00:10:23,170 we presumably would update our plans 211 00:10:23,170 --> 00:10:24,430 or decide that we don't need to. 212 00:10:25,800 --> 00:10:28,570 The, there's been questions about what's the relationship 213 00:10:28,570 --> 00:10:30,070 between the zoning ordinance 214 00:10:30,300 --> 00:10:34,300 and the resolution that the city council adopted last week. 215 00:10:34,930 --> 00:10:37,030 The resolution is a policy statement. 216 00:10:37,030 --> 00:10:38,200 It has no force of law. 217 00:10:38,400 --> 00:10:40,930 So that's the council's publicly stating 218 00:10:41,470 --> 00:10:44,670 that they desire a moratorium to be brought forward. 219 00:10:45,400 --> 00:10:47,870 And in that resolution, there's ref references 220 00:10:47,870 --> 00:10:50,400 to several other things that the work group 221 00:10:50,400 --> 00:10:51,870 recommended get, be worked on. 222 00:10:54,270 --> 00:10:56,800 But it's just a, it's a policy statement. 223 00:10:56,970 --> 00:11:00,870 The zoning ordinance is where the actionable defensible 224 00:11:02,030 --> 00:11:04,970 ordinance would be created in, in the zoning ordinance. 225 00:11:06,070 --> 00:11:07,700 And as I said, it's pretty, it's pretty simple. 226 00:11:07,700 --> 00:11:09,070 Just defines what a data center is 227 00:11:09,200 --> 00:11:10,400 from a land use perspective. 228 00:11:10,400 --> 00:11:12,670 And then it says timeout for 12 months. 229 00:11:13,430 --> 00:11:15,430 It would automatically expire in, 230 00:11:15,430 --> 00:11:17,000 in 12 months after adoption. 231 00:11:17,930 --> 00:11:21,700 It would also be potentially replaced earlier if the council 232 00:11:22,070 --> 00:11:25,070 chose to make updates to the zoning ordinance. 233 00:11:27,200 --> 00:11:30,230 If you recommend it would go onto back 234 00:11:30,230 --> 00:11:32,470 to the city council next week for a second reading. 235 00:11:33,500 --> 00:11:36,670 If so, that would be when the one year clock would begin. 236 00:11:37,970 --> 00:11:41,800 There was other questions about why 10,000 square feet, 237 00:11:41,870 --> 00:11:45,970 for example, couldn't we handle a larger facility for yes, 238 00:11:46,070 --> 00:11:47,870 we could handle a larger facility. 239 00:11:49,000 --> 00:11:51,270 The 10,000 square feet is, is consistent 240 00:11:51,270 --> 00:11:52,770 with other communities in our region 241 00:11:52,970 --> 00:11:54,430 where they've put that moratorium. 242 00:11:55,630 --> 00:11:58,070 It ensures realistically we wouldn't get 243 00:11:58,070 --> 00:11:59,200 any sort of application. 244 00:12:00,430 --> 00:12:02,700 Other questions we've gotten is, hey, 245 00:12:02,700 --> 00:12:04,970 what happens if there's already a data center type 246 00:12:04,970 --> 00:12:09,000 of use in our, in our community, as with any zoning 247 00:12:09,870 --> 00:12:13,070 change, any, any use that exists today would be able 248 00:12:13,070 --> 00:12:14,200 to continue to function. 249 00:12:14,800 --> 00:12:17,200 So we don't have what I would consider to be a data center. 250 00:12:17,200 --> 00:12:20,700 There are server rooms in a number of different businesses 251 00:12:20,700 --> 00:12:23,800 around the city that someone could point to 252 00:12:23,800 --> 00:12:26,030 and say, hey, that kind of serves that function. 253 00:12:27,630 --> 00:12:29,000 The differentiation there is 254 00:12:29,000 --> 00:12:31,300 that those facilities are generally located 255 00:12:31,370 --> 00:12:34,570 to serve onsite type of uses. 256 00:12:34,770 --> 00:12:36,400 You know, for example, storage 257 00:12:36,400 --> 00:12:39,970 of city electronic material happens in this building 258 00:12:40,070 --> 00:12:42,770 and then we have an offsite facility elsewhere as well. 259 00:12:44,670 --> 00:12:47,800 But what the laboratorium also does is, as the city council 260 00:12:47,930 --> 00:12:50,030 and the community considers what 261 00:12:50,930 --> 00:12:53,930 ordinances you ultimately want to adopt, it ensures 262 00:12:53,930 --> 00:12:55,970 that we're not looking over our shoulder as 263 00:12:55,970 --> 00:12:57,870 to any day we could get an application. 264 00:12:58,570 --> 00:13:01,000 Anybody who might be looking around would have 265 00:13:01,000 --> 00:13:02,870 to look elsewhere if they're, if they want 266 00:13:02,870 --> 00:13:04,970 to pursue a facility in the short term. 267 00:13:07,270 --> 00:13:10,200 Other things that are in that resolution refer 268 00:13:10,200 --> 00:13:12,030 to public adequate public facilities. 269 00:13:11,970 --> 00:13:16,500 So the work group looked at our ordinances comprehensively. 270 00:13:16,800 --> 00:13:19,470 Anything that a large facility like 271 00:13:19,500 --> 00:13:20,670 a data center would touch. 272 00:13:21,070 --> 00:13:24,670 And we found some ordinances in other places 273 00:13:24,830 --> 00:13:27,030 that were either outdated, may 274 00:13:27,030 --> 00:13:28,970 or may not have even really relate to a data center. 275 00:13:29,770 --> 00:13:33,070 For example, earlier this year you adopted a short term 276 00:13:33,070 --> 00:13:34,070 rental ordinance. 277 00:13:35,570 --> 00:13:37,800 Our ordinances are not clear as to 278 00:13:37,800 --> 00:13:40,230 how you would address utilities when you're adding a second 279 00:13:40,230 --> 00:13:43,200 dwelling on a property where there's existing utilities. 280 00:13:44,630 --> 00:13:47,170 So there's, there's everything from the a DU 281 00:13:47,170 --> 00:13:50,030 to a large industrial facility, which there's gaps in our 282 00:13:50,570 --> 00:13:51,970 utilities, types of ordinances 283 00:13:52,430 --> 00:13:55,770 and also utilities change with technology they change 284 00:13:55,770 --> 00:13:58,030 with different state and federal regulations. 285 00:13:58,200 --> 00:13:59,430 Some of those areas 286 00:13:59,430 --> 00:14:01,800 of our ordinances are just need to be up, up to date. 287 00:14:03,000 --> 00:14:06,670 We also know that there's land use and development controls. 288 00:14:06,930 --> 00:14:07,930 Some of these are again, related 289 00:14:07,930 --> 00:14:09,700 to a large use like a data center. 290 00:14:09,770 --> 00:14:13,000 Others might be symptoms, for example, 291 00:14:13,070 --> 00:14:14,770 noise or light. 292 00:14:15,070 --> 00:14:18,570 Those things are, you know, symptoms 293 00:14:18,570 --> 00:14:20,200 of living in a built environment. 294 00:14:21,030 --> 00:14:23,230 Some of those regulations could be updated 295 00:14:23,270 --> 00:14:26,170 and then they would apply to any similar type of facility, 296 00:14:26,170 --> 00:14:30,170 whether it's a restaurant or an industrial type of use. 297 00:14:32,770 --> 00:14:35,970 With that, we just ask if you have any questions 298 00:14:36,500 --> 00:14:37,670 or anything else 299 00:14:37,700 --> 00:14:39,930 that you would need for your recommendation. 300 00:14:40,600 --> 00:14:43,500 - Stankey. Josh, any questions for Josh? 301 00:14:45,930 --> 00:14:50,300 - Of course, mark. So we do this 302 00:14:50,300 --> 00:14:54,970 moratorium and meta. 303 00:14:55,970 --> 00:15:00,000 Microsoft Epic decide that they want 304 00:15:00,000 --> 00:15:02,430 to build a facility anywhere and the city be damned. 305 00:15:03,500 --> 00:15:08,270 Does that put us in a position of that permit getting issued 306 00:15:08,270 --> 00:15:09,500 by a judge instead of us? 307 00:15:11,030 --> 00:15:14,230 - So our, our moratorium, we believe is legally sound 308 00:15:14,870 --> 00:15:17,000 that they would be denied. 309 00:15:17,000 --> 00:15:19,000 They wouldn't even, we wouldn't even receive it. 310 00:15:20,070 --> 00:15:23,500 We've looked at how moratoriums were adopted in the past, 311 00:15:24,000 --> 00:15:25,430 which were legally challenged. 312 00:15:25,430 --> 00:15:27,430 And so we believe that ours is defensible. 313 00:15:28,870 --> 00:15:33,430 Very likely if a large data center were interested in coming 314 00:15:33,430 --> 00:15:37,030 to our region, it would take them over a year of homework 315 00:15:37,430 --> 00:15:39,300 before they would even be applying for a permit. 316 00:15:39,930 --> 00:15:44,570 So if someone wanted to locate here, they could begin trying 317 00:15:44,570 --> 00:15:45,800 to figure that out knowing 318 00:15:45,800 --> 00:15:47,670 that we don't know what the rules are gonna be. 319 00:15:48,430 --> 00:15:51,000 They could find that the rules are not advantageous 320 00:15:51,000 --> 00:15:52,370 to whatever they want to do and then, 321 00:15:52,370 --> 00:15:53,430 then they're wasting their time. 322 00:15:55,200 --> 00:15:59,100 Or they may try to influence them in how, in 323 00:15:59,100 --> 00:16:00,200 however form or function. 324 00:16:00,930 --> 00:16:03,430 But if you were in a situation like Beaver Dam, 325 00:16:03,430 --> 00:16:05,700 which is approved to data centers, both meta 326 00:16:05,830 --> 00:16:10,230 and a, a smaller one more recently, those, 327 00:16:10,270 --> 00:16:11,930 those approvals already exist. 328 00:16:12,070 --> 00:16:14,770 So they could approve a moratorium or change the rules, 329 00:16:15,300 --> 00:16:17,370 but those, those facilities are entitled. 330 00:16:19,630 --> 00:16:23,500 So it would just give us this chance if the council wants 331 00:16:23,500 --> 00:16:27,070 to do that, to get some space 332 00:16:27,930 --> 00:16:29,270 to update those ordinances. 333 00:16:29,970 --> 00:16:33,270 If the council doesn't choose to adopt a moratorium, 334 00:16:34,000 --> 00:16:37,430 I don't know that that would change the circumstances 335 00:16:37,830 --> 00:16:38,970 significantly could, 336 00:16:38,970 --> 00:16:42,670 because we don't expect there to be an application to occur. 337 00:16:43,000 --> 00:16:46,830 But it takes that potential off the table for some time. 338 00:16:50,370 --> 00:16:53,970 - And that brings me too to the definition of a data center, 339 00:16:55,200 --> 00:16:59,830 which hits me as pretty vague. 340 00:17:00,770 --> 00:17:05,100 And again, an epic isn't gonna come to town and just walk in 341 00:17:05,100 --> 00:17:06,430 and say, Hey, gimme a permit. 342 00:17:07,400 --> 00:17:11,370 But I I would think an epic, a variety of other places that 343 00:17:13,070 --> 00:17:15,930 don't make product, their product is information 344 00:17:16,170 --> 00:17:18,000 and the processing of that information. 345 00:17:19,430 --> 00:17:24,370 Steve, when you were at the contractor for Oscar, would 346 00:17:24,370 --> 00:17:26,600 that building by Woodman's, would that be a data center? 347 00:17:26,600 --> 00:17:28,500 Because your, your purpose there was 348 00:17:29,700 --> 00:17:31,200 basically schlepping information 349 00:17:31,200 --> 00:17:33,500 and out you weren't accessory to, 350 00:17:35,030 --> 00:17:37,370 to making hot dogs or anything else? Yeah, 351 00:17:37,430 --> 00:17:38,430 - You're, you're right Mark. 352 00:17:38,570 --> 00:17:40,200 I think it all depends on scale 353 00:17:40,830 --> 00:17:42,930 and, you know, the scale that we're looking at 354 00:17:43,770 --> 00:17:46,870 for Beaver Dam is a lot different from, let's say we, 355 00:17:46,870 --> 00:17:49,430 you know, we could say we have a data center in the back 356 00:17:50,000 --> 00:17:50,970 of CITY HALL, you know, 357 00:17:50,970 --> 00:17:52,500 because we have some servers back there. 358 00:17:52,830 --> 00:17:55,030 So I think it all depends on the definition of scale. 359 00:17:56,930 --> 00:17:59,400 - So the, the way that it's defined here is we're, we're, 360 00:17:59,400 --> 00:18:01,070 it's consistent with the way Madison defined it, 361 00:18:01,070 --> 00:18:03,470 and that's intentional so that 362 00:18:04,300 --> 00:18:07,070 we don't have each community in the region defining a data 363 00:18:07,070 --> 00:18:08,200 center as something different 364 00:18:08,970 --> 00:18:10,970 that could be problematic in its own way. 365 00:18:12,830 --> 00:18:17,000 It's also later on in the, in, in the ordinance it does 366 00:18:17,870 --> 00:18:22,700 exempt accessory uses the kind of server room sense 367 00:18:24,070 --> 00:18:28,070 is some, could conceivably somebody have a server room, 368 00:18:28,070 --> 00:18:31,030 which, which is doing some kind of work offsite. 369 00:18:31,070 --> 00:18:33,770 Yeah, sure they could, but it's, it's gonna be accessory 370 00:18:33,770 --> 00:18:36,400 to whatever that primary function of that business is. 371 00:18:37,800 --> 00:18:40,270 And this other kind of challenge with, 372 00:18:40,470 --> 00:18:43,270 with the way zoning is typically practice is they 373 00:18:43,600 --> 00:18:44,930 base that on square footage. 374 00:18:46,070 --> 00:18:48,070 So if you have a 10,000 square foot office, 375 00:18:48,070 --> 00:18:50,270 could you have a 9,900 square foot 376 00:18:51,270 --> 00:18:53,300 air quotes data center on the same site 377 00:18:53,370 --> 00:18:54,800 and consider it to be accessory. 378 00:18:55,500 --> 00:18:58,930 You know, maybe. So that's, 379 00:18:59,500 --> 00:19:01,970 that's the way it's attempted to be controlled by the, 380 00:19:02,070 --> 00:19:04,030 the current moratorium at the very least. 381 00:19:05,070 --> 00:19:08,300 If there's another way to ki kind of control 382 00:19:08,970 --> 00:19:10,970 co-locating uses like that, it's not one 383 00:19:10,970 --> 00:19:13,030 that our current ordinance makes that distinction. 384 00:19:15,070 --> 00:19:16,500 So that this is kind 385 00:19:16,500 --> 00:19:18,630 of why you would do a moratorium would be to give you 386 00:19:18,630 --> 00:19:20,000 that time to, to figure that out. 387 00:19:21,000 --> 00:19:23,430 Otherwise, you know, we would, 388 00:19:23,430 --> 00:19:27,930 we would be in a challenging situation if someone were 389 00:19:27,970 --> 00:19:29,800 to attempt to do something like that. 390 00:19:30,100 --> 00:19:33,870 But there again, if you're trying to do a, 391 00:19:35,930 --> 00:19:37,970 a data center that's accessory to something else, 392 00:19:38,300 --> 00:19:40,000 that something else has gotta be huge 393 00:19:41,630 --> 00:19:44,370 and for not very likely to occur. 394 00:19:44,800 --> 00:19:48,500 So I, I would say that we'd be pretty safe to say that if, 395 00:19:48,500 --> 00:19:52,300 if your data center, whatever that is, server room needs 396 00:19:52,300 --> 00:19:54,830 to be smaller than, than whatever the primary use 397 00:19:54,830 --> 00:19:58,830 of the property is, very, we wouldn't get anything 398 00:19:58,830 --> 00:20:01,370 besides a very small use of that type. 399 00:20:02,670 --> 00:20:04,570 - Do we have any idea how many square foot of 400 00:20:05,270 --> 00:20:07,630 quote server room that am fam has? 401 00:20:10,000 --> 00:20:11,770 - No. I, I'm guessing 402 00:20:12,670 --> 00:20:15,400 the building inspection department in Madison probably does, 403 00:20:15,570 --> 00:20:17,200 but I do not. 404 00:20:17,670 --> 00:20:20,930 - And is this 10, this 10,000 square feet, is it the entire 405 00:20:22,070 --> 00:20:23,970 facility housing this data center 406 00:20:24,070 --> 00:20:27,170 or is it the data center itself? 407 00:20:27,230 --> 00:20:29,600 10,000 sounds big, but it's a hundred by a hundred. 408 00:20:29,700 --> 00:20:30,930 It's not huge. 409 00:20:31,600 --> 00:20:33,030 - Right. So the way 410 00:20:33,030 --> 00:20:35,670 that we've applied this in other circumstances is 411 00:20:36,400 --> 00:20:38,000 it's the function of the space. 412 00:20:39,100 --> 00:20:40,870 So you could think of like a restaurant, 413 00:20:41,100 --> 00:20:42,570 you have a production space 414 00:20:43,030 --> 00:20:44,470 and then you have a serving space 415 00:20:44,470 --> 00:20:46,870 and those are defined by your health code. 416 00:20:47,970 --> 00:20:51,430 So similarly we, if there was some question about what's a, 417 00:20:52,270 --> 00:20:54,470 what's a data center use versus what's 418 00:20:54,470 --> 00:20:55,500 a, not a data center use. 419 00:20:55,770 --> 00:20:58,570 We would need to know down to the grain of the, 420 00:20:58,600 --> 00:21:01,800 of the building plan, how the, how that would be handled. 421 00:21:02,830 --> 00:21:06,200 The space where the hardware is kept 422 00:21:07,200 --> 00:21:09,200 is a definable space in that building. 423 00:21:10,800 --> 00:21:13,930 The other what what the other spaces are, restrooms, 424 00:21:13,930 --> 00:21:18,270 offices, whatever, they would need to be larger than 425 00:21:19,800 --> 00:21:22,270 that computer hardware area to be considered 426 00:21:22,270 --> 00:21:23,800 as accessory use. Yeah. 427 00:21:23,800 --> 00:21:25,670 - That, that's where this is hitting me is kind of vague 428 00:21:25,870 --> 00:21:28,230 'cause it just says floor area greater than 10,000 square 429 00:21:28,230 --> 00:21:29,930 feet and 430 00:21:31,500 --> 00:21:33,270 what all is included in that Is that, 431 00:21:33,600 --> 00:21:36,770 - Yeah, that kicks, that would kick into the other rules 432 00:21:36,970 --> 00:21:39,700 about how area is computed in the zoning 433 00:21:39,700 --> 00:21:41,430 ordinance to be consistent. 434 00:21:44,400 --> 00:21:48,430 - I think to Mark's point, so for example, Royal Printing, 435 00:21:48,800 --> 00:21:50,470 they're expanding out in the business park. 436 00:21:51,500 --> 00:21:53,470 They have a lot of documents. 437 00:21:53,670 --> 00:21:56,070 So I imagine they have a number of servers. 438 00:21:56,800 --> 00:22:00,630 If their server space is over 10,000, would 439 00:22:00,630 --> 00:22:03,430 that impact them by this moratorium? 440 00:22:04,570 --> 00:22:06,030 It would All, theirs would be internal. 441 00:22:06,430 --> 00:22:08,400 I think that's the difference that we would say 442 00:22:08,970 --> 00:22:10,670 internal versus outside use. 443 00:22:11,030 --> 00:22:13,300 - It, it wouldn't because it would be considered 444 00:22:13,300 --> 00:22:14,370 to be an accessory use. 445 00:22:15,670 --> 00:22:20,300 Even if they are doing something in that server server room 446 00:22:20,300 --> 00:22:22,930 that happens to be primarily used 447 00:22:23,030 --> 00:22:25,270 for some o offsite purpose. 448 00:22:25,300 --> 00:22:26,930 We wouldn't, a we probably would never know 449 00:22:26,930 --> 00:22:29,070 because we don't track the bites. 450 00:22:30,970 --> 00:22:34,370 Secondly is, you know, that if it's small 451 00:22:34,370 --> 00:22:36,270 and accessory to their, to their use, 452 00:22:38,870 --> 00:22:41,370 unfortunately that's how com, how computers work. 453 00:22:41,370 --> 00:22:42,400 They're communicating with, 454 00:22:42,400 --> 00:22:43,830 with other devices all over the place. 455 00:22:44,000 --> 00:22:47,030 So the only way we can really control it is 456 00:22:47,100 --> 00:22:48,370 by land is by area. 457 00:22:50,030 --> 00:22:52,870 Again, it's our tools are, are limited 458 00:22:53,000 --> 00:22:56,000 and perhaps not well as well suited to this kind of 459 00:22:56,670 --> 00:22:57,930 concept as we'd like. 460 00:22:59,000 --> 00:23:03,100 - Okay. Stankey. Okay. Any other questions of Josh? 461 00:23:04,430 --> 00:23:05,430 DeRosa? 462 00:23:06,930 --> 00:23:10,500 - Stankey, Ms. Mayor? Josh, I'm just kind of curious, 463 00:23:12,670 --> 00:23:14,070 have you talked to other municipalities 464 00:23:14,200 --> 00:23:15,870 regarding the data centers 465 00:23:15,930 --> 00:23:17,870 and what kind of feedback have you received? 466 00:23:18,570 --> 00:23:23,100 - Yes, so I have been trying to get wise 467 00:23:23,230 --> 00:23:26,030 to this type of use for several years 468 00:23:27,030 --> 00:23:30,100 before even divorce had their proposal just 469 00:23:30,100 --> 00:23:32,370 because we could see it coming from a profession 470 00:23:33,670 --> 00:23:37,700 and primarily it was, it was initially morally academic, 471 00:23:38,000 --> 00:23:40,200 like just what, what's happening with this issue? 472 00:23:40,630 --> 00:23:42,670 Until we started seeing them pop up in WISCONSIN, 473 00:23:42,770 --> 00:23:43,800 then we knew that we needed 474 00:23:43,800 --> 00:23:45,030 to get wise to it pretty quickly. 475 00:23:46,100 --> 00:23:49,500 There's several groups that, both 476 00:23:50,870 --> 00:23:53,630 existing statewide groups who communicate on issues like 477 00:23:53,700 --> 00:23:55,270 this, such as the League of WISCONSIN, league 478 00:23:55,270 --> 00:23:58,970 of Municipalities, and then there's other relatively newer 479 00:23:58,970 --> 00:24:00,270 groups that have popped up. 480 00:24:00,630 --> 00:24:03,070 So for example, the, the city is a member 481 00:24:03,070 --> 00:24:05,430 of the WISCONSIN Local Government Climate Coalition 482 00:24:06,430 --> 00:24:09,300 working mostly on sustainability related issues 483 00:24:09,400 --> 00:24:11,070 and kind of peer to peer learning. 484 00:24:12,030 --> 00:24:16,930 And then sometime late last year we created 485 00:24:16,970 --> 00:24:18,000 a data center focus group. 486 00:24:18,170 --> 00:24:20,670 So there's several municipalities that we talked, 487 00:24:20,700 --> 00:24:21,970 have talked to each other about 488 00:24:22,500 --> 00:24:24,030 what are we doing around this issue. 489 00:24:24,070 --> 00:24:28,500 And they, they range from Dane County to Wasaw to to others. 490 00:24:30,070 --> 00:24:32,230 And again, they're looking at it from a particular lens, 491 00:24:33,070 --> 00:24:35,700 from, from environmental perspective, but, 492 00:24:36,930 --> 00:24:39,400 and then there's a variety of national organizations 493 00:24:39,400 --> 00:24:41,930 that are tracking it in American Planning Association. 494 00:24:42,100 --> 00:24:46,970 Among, among them the, the different, the challenges 495 00:24:46,970 --> 00:24:49,430 that some data center markets are 496 00:24:49,470 --> 00:24:50,770 what you consider to be mature. 497 00:24:50,930 --> 00:24:52,970 They've had data centers for a long time. 498 00:24:52,970 --> 00:24:54,870 They've had big data centers for a long time. 499 00:24:55,800 --> 00:24:57,230 And then there's markets like WISCONSIN, 500 00:24:57,230 --> 00:24:58,430 which are relatively new 501 00:24:59,930 --> 00:25:02,630 and looking for comparable projects 502 00:25:02,630 --> 00:25:04,270 and comparable ordinances is slim 503 00:25:04,270 --> 00:25:06,670 because there's, there's relatively little of it. 504 00:25:07,600 --> 00:25:09,500 So we've had to look at other commun, other places 505 00:25:09,670 --> 00:25:10,700 that have data centers 506 00:25:10,870 --> 00:25:13,930 and to understand how are they being regulated or not. 507 00:25:15,570 --> 00:25:16,570 The other challenge 508 00:25:16,870 --> 00:25:18,930 or benefit to Sun Prairie is 509 00:25:18,930 --> 00:25:21,170 that we have a municipal utility, electric utility, 510 00:25:21,170 --> 00:25:25,470 which gives us a significant layer of transparency 511 00:25:25,670 --> 00:25:28,030 and control that someone, a, a community 512 00:25:28,030 --> 00:25:29,670 that does not have a municipal 513 00:25:29,670 --> 00:25:32,870 utility vis-a-vis like deforest. 514 00:25:33,170 --> 00:25:37,000 Deforest was surprised when they learned 515 00:25:37,000 --> 00:25:38,930 that QTS was looking to locate there 516 00:25:38,930 --> 00:25:43,200 because QTS was coordinating with a, with a utility 517 00:25:43,200 --> 00:25:45,670 and the utility was private and 518 00:25:46,070 --> 00:25:48,000 therefore they didn't need to talk about it 519 00:25:47,970 --> 00:25:49,870 until they had to. 520 00:25:50,970 --> 00:25:54,570 Whereas if, if a use like that were attempting 521 00:25:54,570 --> 00:25:57,570 to locate here, we would know as soon, as soon 522 00:25:57,570 --> 00:25:59,300 as they were really in any sort of coordination 523 00:25:59,300 --> 00:26:01,030 with our, our utilities. 524 00:26:03,200 --> 00:26:07,070 So, so, so it's difficult to say exactly like how we would, 525 00:26:07,100 --> 00:26:09,470 who we would use as a benchmark right now. 526 00:26:11,500 --> 00:26:13,970 A lot of different ways to try to regulate these, none 527 00:26:13,970 --> 00:26:15,700 of them are perfect. 528 00:26:16,970 --> 00:26:18,670 It depends on kind of what you're trying to do 529 00:26:18,870 --> 00:26:21,070 and what you think the main issues are. 530 00:26:22,670 --> 00:26:25,000 The communities that we have followed have adopted 531 00:26:25,000 --> 00:26:26,100 ordinances that are very different. 532 00:26:26,930 --> 00:26:28,470 They're attempting to control similar things, 533 00:26:28,470 --> 00:26:29,830 so they're just going at a different way. 534 00:26:30,430 --> 00:26:32,970 And part of the conversation over the, 535 00:26:33,000 --> 00:26:35,700 the next several months will be which route seems to fit 536 00:26:36,300 --> 00:26:38,300 Sun Prairie best given our circumstances. 537 00:26:41,630 --> 00:26:44,830 - This may be kind of silly question, but who regulates? It 538 00:26:46,070 --> 00:26:48,070 - Depends on what you're talking about. 539 00:26:48,170 --> 00:26:52,930 So there's, you know, from a land use perspective, we do, 540 00:26:53,830 --> 00:26:58,000 but from a water storm water perspective we do, 541 00:26:59,030 --> 00:27:02,670 but from a power perspective it's, there's layers. 542 00:27:03,170 --> 00:27:04,370 So the, you know, okay, 543 00:27:04,370 --> 00:27:06,000 we don't regulate the, the transmission. 544 00:27:07,070 --> 00:27:08,470 We have a municipal utility 545 00:27:08,470 --> 00:27:11,470 and Jills here, so we have some more control than most 546 00:27:11,870 --> 00:27:12,970 jurisdictions would. 547 00:27:14,400 --> 00:27:16,470 But then there's, there's review 548 00:27:16,470 --> 00:27:20,430 by the public service commission of certain matters such as, 549 00:27:20,870 --> 00:27:23,800 you might, might hear about in the news, some 550 00:27:23,800 --> 00:27:27,970 of the rate cases where the PSC is going to rule in terms of 551 00:27:27,970 --> 00:27:31,070 how those rates are set, which determines who pays 552 00:27:31,930 --> 00:27:33,970 when these large users come into a community, 553 00:27:36,030 --> 00:27:37,970 what are they paying for, what type 554 00:27:37,970 --> 00:27:41,070 of equipment are they obligated for, how are, 555 00:27:41,070 --> 00:27:42,270 how is risk being mitigated? 556 00:27:42,270 --> 00:27:46,500 Things like that. There's no regulation at this, 557 00:27:46,600 --> 00:27:49,300 at the federal level on these type of facilities. 558 00:27:50,300 --> 00:27:54,430 There may someday on the technology they're using 559 00:27:55,070 --> 00:27:56,500 or the service they're providing, 560 00:27:57,070 --> 00:27:59,300 but at least as of today, there's no 561 00:28:01,000 --> 00:28:02,030 facility type of regulation. 562 00:28:04,370 --> 00:28:06,400 - Perhaps I miss misunderstood you, 563 00:28:06,400 --> 00:28:08,870 but you mentioned that Beaver Dam had several of them. 564 00:28:09,000 --> 00:28:11,030 - They have two, have two, well they, they have one 565 00:28:11,030 --> 00:28:12,930 that's under construction right now that's, that's owned 566 00:28:12,930 --> 00:28:15,970 by meta and then earlier this year they approved 567 00:28:16,030 --> 00:28:17,000 a second smaller one. 568 00:28:17,700 --> 00:28:19,970 Okay. I believe it's about 90,000 square feet. 569 00:28:21,400 --> 00:28:23,870 Let's see if I had my notes here. Yep. 570 00:28:23,930 --> 00:28:26,570 So they, in April they'd 571 00:28:27,200 --> 00:28:29,930 approved the zoning entitlements for a second facility, 572 00:28:29,930 --> 00:28:31,070 90,000 square feet. 573 00:28:32,000 --> 00:28:33,670 In that case, the, the city actually owned 574 00:28:33,670 --> 00:28:34,700 the land and sold it to him. 575 00:28:35,430 --> 00:28:40,030 And I don't know if they've 576 00:28:40,800 --> 00:28:42,430 begun construction as yet, but, 577 00:28:43,770 --> 00:28:45,670 and then there, I believe there are eight 578 00:28:45,670 --> 00:28:47,970 or nine of them in Dane County that are operating right now. 579 00:28:47,970 --> 00:28:49,700 Some of them have been around for a couple of decades. 580 00:28:50,470 --> 00:28:53,630 - Okay. Stankey. Josh, I guess I'd like to hear from Jill, 581 00:28:53,770 --> 00:28:57,000 if you don't mind sharing a couple thoughts here. 582 00:28:58,070 --> 00:29:00,400 - So while Jill's coming up, JIRA has his stand 583 00:29:00,400 --> 00:29:01,400 - Up. 584 00:29:01,400 --> 00:29:01,870 Yeah, so Jira has his hand up. 585 00:29:02,270 --> 00:29:04,930 Yeah, can can we get to Jira first? I'm sorry, Jill. 586 00:29:04,930 --> 00:29:06,000 Oh, okay, sure. I'm sorry. 587 00:29:06,100 --> 00:29:08,700 But we will call in into Jill Jira. 588 00:29:08,770 --> 00:29:11,000 Do you have a question? That's okay. 589 00:29:10,930 --> 00:29:15,000 - Yes. Stankey, gosh, I know there are, there are a lot 590 00:29:15,000 --> 00:29:16,870 of mixed feelings about data centers, 591 00:29:17,030 --> 00:29:21,700 although as these things are popping up, you know, 592 00:29:21,700 --> 00:29:23,030 people have different feelings about 593 00:29:23,030 --> 00:29:24,170 them one way or the other. 594 00:29:24,500 --> 00:29:27,000 I personally don't have, 595 00:29:27,800 --> 00:29:31,000 but I, I really agree with pushing the, 596 00:29:31,030 --> 00:29:34,700 the pause button right now, Mike on to just, is the timeline 597 00:29:34,700 --> 00:29:38,300 that's been proposed for the moratorium itself 12 months 598 00:29:39,000 --> 00:29:43,700 is this timeline that is going to give staff the, 599 00:29:43,870 --> 00:29:45,430 the time to be able to figure out this 600 00:29:45,430 --> 00:29:46,930 unknowns that we're grappling with. 601 00:29:48,930 --> 00:29:50,430 Could we have, how did we land on 602 00:29:50,430 --> 00:29:52,400 that 12 month timeline or that year? 603 00:29:52,400 --> 00:29:54,030 Could it have been like 24 months, 604 00:29:54,070 --> 00:29:55,230 two years, three years or whatever? 605 00:29:57,930 --> 00:29:59,630 - So there's a few layers there. 606 00:30:00,930 --> 00:30:02,700 So moratoriums have to be temporary. 607 00:30:03,170 --> 00:30:05,070 The the longest moratorium that I'm aware 608 00:30:05,070 --> 00:30:07,630 of at a municipal level in Wisconsin's been 12 months. 609 00:30:08,630 --> 00:30:10,500 I know there's been some counties that have adopted 610 00:30:11,400 --> 00:30:13,000 18 month moratoriums recently. 611 00:30:13,930 --> 00:30:16,630 I don't know that those have been challenged legally. 612 00:30:17,070 --> 00:30:19,630 Well there have been 12 month moratoriums in the past 613 00:30:19,700 --> 00:30:21,630 that have, that have held up, been held up in court 614 00:30:21,630 --> 00:30:22,970 for other, for other types of uses. 615 00:30:25,000 --> 00:30:26,970 And from a, from a, is this enough time? 616 00:30:28,000 --> 00:30:31,570 Really the question is how much discussion 617 00:30:31,800 --> 00:30:34,970 and what kind of public 618 00:30:36,170 --> 00:30:38,430 dialogue does the council desire to get to 619 00:30:39,270 --> 00:30:40,870 a proposed ordinance? 620 00:30:41,670 --> 00:30:44,930 Really the the challenge is not technical in nature. 621 00:30:45,370 --> 00:30:48,930 We can look to see kind of what we know what the issues are. 622 00:30:48,970 --> 00:30:51,470 Largely we've, we could see 623 00:30:51,500 --> 00:30:53,930 how other communities are attempting to regulate it 624 00:30:54,270 --> 00:30:56,270 and then decide which route is the best for us, 625 00:30:56,930 --> 00:30:58,630 it's the deciding which route is best for us. 626 00:30:58,630 --> 00:31:00,170 Really. That's the time consuming part. 627 00:31:00,370 --> 00:31:02,500 Otherwise we could adopt the WASA ordinance 628 00:31:02,670 --> 00:31:04,700 or the Middleton ordinance 629 00:31:04,700 --> 00:31:07,230 or somebody else's quickly if you chose to. 630 00:31:08,670 --> 00:31:10,930 Again, they're all, they all regulate similar things, 631 00:31:12,430 --> 00:31:13,930 just different ways to go about it. 632 00:31:14,970 --> 00:31:17,030 And also some of them can be more 633 00:31:17,030 --> 00:31:19,670 or less permissive depending on what, 634 00:31:19,670 --> 00:31:21,230 how the community feels about these 635 00:31:21,230 --> 00:31:23,070 as an economic development issue 636 00:31:23,630 --> 00:31:25,170 as a land use issue, et cetera. 637 00:31:26,030 --> 00:31:29,000 As staff, we're not taking a particular position on 638 00:31:29,000 --> 00:31:31,070 that other than yes, it's an issue. 639 00:31:31,070 --> 00:31:35,000 There are trade-offs. Our job is to propose 640 00:31:34,930 --> 00:31:37,970 or is to present you with options to try to address those 641 00:31:39,470 --> 00:31:42,800 trade-offs and then for you to direct us where to place, 642 00:31:42,970 --> 00:31:44,700 you know, where to place those standards. 643 00:31:47,270 --> 00:31:49,830 - Okay. Stankey. Now if we could have our, 644 00:31:50,300 --> 00:31:51,470 did that answer it Jira? 645 00:31:53,870 --> 00:31:55,000 - Yes. Stankey. - Okay. Stankey. 646 00:31:55,000 --> 00:31:57,970 Now if we could have our Sun Prairie utility manager, 647 00:31:58,070 --> 00:32:00,030 Jill Weiss, come forward please. Stankey, 648 00:32:00,300 --> 00:32:02,030 - I don't know if you have a specific question for me, 649 00:32:02,030 --> 00:32:03,070 but what I can share is 650 00:32:03,070 --> 00:32:05,430 that we have an obligation as a utility to serve. Excuse 651 00:32:05,700 --> 00:32:07,000 - Is the green button on? It's 652 00:32:07,000 --> 00:32:08,000 - On. 653 00:32:08,000 --> 00:32:08,830 - It's on. Okay. I'm not projecting. 654 00:32:09,000 --> 00:32:11,470 I haven't, I've got that feedback. So we'll get closer. 655 00:32:12,400 --> 00:32:13,930 So what I wanna share, I guess, and, 656 00:32:13,930 --> 00:32:15,930 and I'm open for any questions that you may have is, 657 00:32:15,930 --> 00:32:18,600 but as a utility we have the obligation to serve a customer. 658 00:32:19,170 --> 00:32:21,670 Now that does not mean that we don't regulate 659 00:32:21,670 --> 00:32:24,030 that customer though, or require very specific 660 00:32:24,030 --> 00:32:25,070 things from that customer. 661 00:32:25,600 --> 00:32:28,670 Our obligation is to actually serve our existing customers 662 00:32:29,070 --> 00:32:31,700 and then another customer comes along, they may need 663 00:32:31,700 --> 00:32:33,030 to have certain specific needs. 664 00:32:33,170 --> 00:32:35,030 We explore those specific needs with them 665 00:32:35,070 --> 00:32:36,200 and then they have the obligation 666 00:32:36,200 --> 00:32:38,470 to do the things in the manner in which we require them 667 00:32:38,500 --> 00:32:40,670 to do, for us to be able to serve them. 668 00:32:40,830 --> 00:32:42,470 For example, with a current development, 669 00:32:42,470 --> 00:32:46,570 say a subdivision comes in, we cannot extend those utilities 670 00:32:46,670 --> 00:32:48,170 for that developer. 671 00:32:48,500 --> 00:32:51,770 That extension must be done at their cost, our design, 672 00:32:51,830 --> 00:32:53,470 or at least our review of that design. 673 00:32:53,470 --> 00:32:55,270 And that would be the same situation here 674 00:32:55,930 --> 00:32:58,170 as we work together with this work group though we really 675 00:32:58,170 --> 00:32:59,800 took a, a further look at this 676 00:32:59,930 --> 00:33:02,670 and looked at our ordinances kind of beyond the idea of, 677 00:33:02,670 --> 00:33:06,030 okay, large data center, well what if we had a large food 678 00:33:06,030 --> 00:33:08,500 and beverage manufacturer that came here? 679 00:33:08,670 --> 00:33:11,470 What do we have an ordinance that makes it very clear 680 00:33:12,030 --> 00:33:14,570 for a developer of something like that, of what rules 681 00:33:14,600 --> 00:33:15,670 that they would need to follow. 682 00:33:16,670 --> 00:33:18,930 So for us, you know, say a data center did come in, 683 00:33:18,930 --> 00:33:20,700 we would require that they actually signed 684 00:33:21,000 --> 00:33:22,200 a reimbursement agreement with us. 685 00:33:23,000 --> 00:33:25,430 We would ask for very specific things from them. 686 00:33:25,570 --> 00:33:27,430 We would do a study, we'd take a look at 687 00:33:27,430 --> 00:33:28,770 what the needs they have. 688 00:33:28,770 --> 00:33:32,000 Maybe we have, you know, our utilities set up already 689 00:33:32,000 --> 00:33:33,000 to serve them directly. 690 00:33:33,170 --> 00:33:34,500 Maybe there's certain infrastructure 691 00:33:34,500 --> 00:33:35,970 that they would be required then 692 00:33:36,000 --> 00:33:38,930 to actually build at our standards. 693 00:33:38,930 --> 00:33:40,030 Maybe we would be building it. 694 00:33:40,400 --> 00:33:43,170 But we're, I feel like we're really in a good place 695 00:33:43,400 --> 00:33:44,970 by the regulations that we have 696 00:33:45,000 --> 00:33:46,670 through the public service commission. 697 00:33:46,670 --> 00:33:49,670 Everything with the water and electric utility is regulated 698 00:33:49,670 --> 00:33:51,470 by the Public Service Commission of WISCONSIN. 699 00:33:52,030 --> 00:33:54,000 And basically what I just kinda described there of 700 00:33:54,000 --> 00:33:56,230 how we have to treat a customer is based on those rules 701 00:33:59,030 --> 00:34:00,030 - On Rosa. 702 00:34:00,030 --> 00:34:00,600 Yeah, 703 00:34:01,000 --> 00:34:03,670 - Follow up question Jill, same question I asked Josh. 704 00:34:04,430 --> 00:34:07,000 Have you talked to other, you know, facility 705 00:34:07,500 --> 00:34:09,930 and got their feedback on this as well? 706 00:34:11,470 --> 00:34:14,000 - Absolutely. This is a hot topic in our industry for sure. 707 00:34:14,770 --> 00:34:17,400 But I would say that every at least close contact 708 00:34:17,430 --> 00:34:20,170 that I have, they're exploring it kind of like we are. 709 00:34:20,930 --> 00:34:23,170 None of them have had that data center roll in 710 00:34:23,570 --> 00:34:25,270 and actually gotten into the finish line. 711 00:34:25,700 --> 00:34:27,430 A number of them have worked very closely. 712 00:34:27,870 --> 00:34:31,500 I'm, I'm aware of a one utility that was down to one of two 713 00:34:32,200 --> 00:34:34,570 areas where they, and it was a very large facility, 714 00:34:34,670 --> 00:34:36,270 I believe it was 300 megawatts, 715 00:34:37,000 --> 00:34:39,430 but that eventually did not come together. 716 00:34:39,870 --> 00:34:41,930 But they basically went through the same exact process. 717 00:34:42,000 --> 00:34:43,230 They worked with that developer, 718 00:34:43,370 --> 00:34:44,770 they worked through all those steps. 719 00:34:45,400 --> 00:34:47,030 Ultimately they found that they could do, 720 00:34:47,070 --> 00:34:48,270 I guess better someplace else 721 00:34:48,370 --> 00:34:51,030 or that that wasn't a good fit for land use or otherwise 722 00:34:51,270 --> 00:34:52,470 and move to a different direction. 723 00:34:52,470 --> 00:34:53,970 But we're watching this very closely 724 00:34:54,670 --> 00:34:56,970 because it's definitely a hot topic in our industry. 725 00:34:58,000 --> 00:35:00,100 - Stankey so much. - Mark you must have a question. 726 00:35:01,170 --> 00:35:03,300 Two questions. First one is, 727 00:35:06,070 --> 00:35:08,030 if I build something 728 00:35:08,030 --> 00:35:11,270 and next into the city of Sun Prairie, am I forced 729 00:35:11,300 --> 00:35:12,870 to use Sun Prairie Utilities? 730 00:35:12,870 --> 00:35:14,270 If I can kind of deal with Reliant 731 00:35:15,200 --> 00:35:16,400 - Not on the electric side. 732 00:35:16,770 --> 00:35:19,830 Electric is very different than the water. Water basically. 733 00:35:20,930 --> 00:35:22,430 Basically you have to be in the city 734 00:35:22,630 --> 00:35:25,070 to actually have municipal water, you know, 735 00:35:25,070 --> 00:35:27,970 utility unit water service electric is very different. 736 00:35:28,630 --> 00:35:30,270 There's service, service territories. 737 00:35:30,970 --> 00:35:32,170 I dunno how much time you have 738 00:35:32,170 --> 00:35:34,000 because I could go into the whole nuances 739 00:35:34,000 --> 00:35:36,170 of service territories, but there is actually customers 740 00:35:36,430 --> 00:35:39,700 of Alliant within the city limits of Sun Prairie. 741 00:35:39,970 --> 00:35:41,800 We actually do have a few customers that are 742 00:35:41,800 --> 00:35:43,300 outside the city limits of Sun Prairie. 743 00:35:43,930 --> 00:35:46,300 The electric is quite different on 744 00:35:46,300 --> 00:35:47,500 the service territory rules. 745 00:35:47,630 --> 00:35:50,030 So it's very possible that something can be built, 746 00:35:50,700 --> 00:35:51,970 they could annex into the city. 747 00:35:51,970 --> 00:35:55,030 They're gonna remain that other utilities customer, 748 00:35:55,100 --> 00:35:57,030 they wouldn't become ours just by annexation. 749 00:35:58,770 --> 00:36:00,870 - And then if you know, who is our largest 750 00:36:01,300 --> 00:36:03,930 power consumer right now and what's their demand, 751 00:36:05,470 --> 00:36:06,670 - I cannot tell you off the top 752 00:36:06,670 --> 00:36:07,930 of my head what their demand is. 753 00:36:09,070 --> 00:36:10,970 I, I do know the largest customer, 754 00:36:11,070 --> 00:36:12,970 but we can't share customer information 755 00:36:12,970 --> 00:36:14,770 so I can't tell you that unfortunately. 756 00:36:14,770 --> 00:36:16,570 Okay. But I can definitely follow up 757 00:36:16,570 --> 00:36:18,470 and tell you what our largest customer's demand is. 758 00:36:18,670 --> 00:36:19,870 I can give you their usage, I just 759 00:36:19,870 --> 00:36:21,430 can't tell you what customer that is. I'm 760 00:36:21,430 --> 00:36:24,200 - Just trying to get my arms around what, what this 761 00:36:25,630 --> 00:36:26,670 a hundred megawatt. 762 00:36:28,000 --> 00:36:31,000 - Oh, okay. For context a hundred megawatts is huge 763 00:36:31,700 --> 00:36:34,000 Right now on the hottest day we've had, 764 00:36:34,000 --> 00:36:37,070 which actually I think we peaked this year in July 765 00:36:37,570 --> 00:36:39,000 with our biggest demand here. 766 00:36:39,030 --> 00:36:40,870 So basically the whole city, 767 00:36:41,200 --> 00:36:42,170 everybody's using their 768 00:36:42,170 --> 00:36:43,270 air conditioners and everything else. 769 00:36:43,470 --> 00:36:45,630 I believe it was 74 megawatts. Okay. 770 00:36:45,800 --> 00:36:49,000 So if we got a hundred megawatt data center it would be, 771 00:36:49,030 --> 00:36:51,030 you know, and that's gonna be pretty much base load. 772 00:36:51,030 --> 00:36:53,770 The data center typically has a kind of a run it when it's 773 00:36:53,770 --> 00:36:57,070 how many it's going and it doesn't fluctuate tons. 774 00:36:57,970 --> 00:37:00,170 So that would be a very significant load to us. 775 00:37:01,930 --> 00:37:03,030 - Stankey, Stankey, 776 00:37:03,670 --> 00:37:04,670 - I appreciate you Jill. 777 00:37:05,400 --> 00:37:07,430 Not outing the Bremmer residence is the 778 00:37:07,430 --> 00:37:08,930 largest consumer of power. 779 00:37:11,700 --> 00:37:14,070 - I like my house at 64. It's nice. Yeah. 780 00:37:15,030 --> 00:37:16,270 - Okay. Any other questions? 781 00:37:19,070 --> 00:37:22,030 Okay, if not, this is designated as a public hearing, 782 00:37:23,170 --> 00:37:25,230 so it is 7 37 783 00:37:26,270 --> 00:37:29,000 and I will open the public hearing to anyone who would like 784 00:37:29,000 --> 00:37:31,970 to come forward and ask any questions. 785 00:37:39,400 --> 00:37:41,570 I don't think there's anyone out in the audience here. 786 00:37:46,600 --> 00:37:48,170 Looks like everybody's a panelist. 787 00:37:53,430 --> 00:37:56,070 Okay. So hearing none, I'll ask again. 788 00:37:56,630 --> 00:38:00,470 Anyone would like to come forward for the public hearing? 789 00:38:00,470 --> 00:38:02,000 Please state it now. 790 00:38:05,470 --> 00:38:09,770 Okay. It's 7 38 and we will close the public hearing 791 00:38:10,500 --> 00:38:12,070 and bring it back to the commissioners. 792 00:38:12,430 --> 00:38:14,870 So what you're looking for here, Josh, as a recommendation 793 00:38:14,870 --> 00:38:16,430 to go to council, correct? 794 00:38:16,470 --> 00:38:19,930 - Correct. Yep. They would potentially take action on it 795 00:38:20,600 --> 00:38:21,600 Tuesday of next week. 796 00:38:22,800 --> 00:38:26,230 - Okay. On September 1st? - Yes. Okay. 797 00:38:27,270 --> 00:38:29,470 - Okay. So look for a motion 798 00:38:29,630 --> 00:38:31,430 to the recommendation. Some move. 799 00:38:32,030 --> 00:38:34,770 - I'll second it. - Okay. Any discussion? 800 00:38:37,300 --> 00:38:39,000 Okay. All in favor of sending this 801 00:38:39,000 --> 00:38:40,300 recommendation to the council. 802 00:38:40,800 --> 00:38:44,930 Council for September 1st. Please signify by saying aye. 803 00:38:45,830 --> 00:38:50,230 - Aye. - Aye. Opposed? Opposed. Same sign? No. Okay. 804 00:38:53,000 --> 00:38:54,800 Okay. Stankey commissioners. 805 00:38:56,030 --> 00:38:58,030 Okay, we'll move on to staff updates. 806 00:38:59,970 --> 00:39:01,400 - Your Honor, we are looking forward 807 00:39:01,400 --> 00:39:03,230 to our regularly scheduled plan 808 00:39:03,230 --> 00:39:04,630 commission meeting on September 8th. 809 00:39:05,170 --> 00:39:07,070 It'll be a longer agenda than we've had in a while. 810 00:39:08,300 --> 00:39:11,070 I don't have a a slide that, that lays all of those out, 811 00:39:11,800 --> 00:39:14,930 but we not, I don't know 812 00:39:14,930 --> 00:39:17,300 that anything is particularly heavy of a topic. 813 00:39:17,470 --> 00:39:19,570 Just a lot of things that have been moving 814 00:39:20,430 --> 00:39:21,470 for the past few months 815 00:39:21,470 --> 00:39:24,400 and they're all just kind of coming together right now. 816 00:39:24,830 --> 00:39:27,800 So I will, we will get that agenda out 817 00:39:27,800 --> 00:39:30,300 to you. I believe it'll be next week. 818 00:39:30,800 --> 00:39:33,500 - Okay. Stankey, Josh? Okay, moving on. 819 00:39:33,500 --> 00:39:34,970 Are there any referrals? 820 00:39:35,670 --> 00:39:39,570 I okay. Hearing none. 821 00:39:39,700 --> 00:39:44,070 Any announcements? Alder. Dreyer. 822 00:39:44,000 --> 00:39:46,070 - Yeah. So not really planning related, 823 00:39:46,070 --> 00:39:47,570 but school starts on next Tuesday. 824 00:39:48,000 --> 00:39:50,670 So welcoming back all the students this morning we had the 825 00:39:50,670 --> 00:39:53,630 convocation at East High School, which was very nice 826 00:39:53,700 --> 00:39:56,030 and looking forward to the school year. 827 00:39:57,300 --> 00:39:59,830 So it's time to get the kiddos to bet on time. 828 00:39:59,930 --> 00:40:01,070 Start to get that schedule back 829 00:40:01,800 --> 00:40:05,500 and also like to ask our audience about, just to make sure 830 00:40:05,500 --> 00:40:07,930 that we're adding a couple minutes to our commute, 831 00:40:07,930 --> 00:40:09,830 especially if we have a bus stop on the way 832 00:40:09,830 --> 00:40:10,870 and respecting the buses. 833 00:40:10,930 --> 00:40:14,270 Stop sign. We would all appreciate that. So Stankey? Yeah, 834 00:40:14,270 --> 00:40:15,270 - Stankey for that. 835 00:40:15,630 --> 00:40:19,030 Very good. Anything? 836 00:40:19,970 --> 00:40:22,930 Okay, we will move on to adjournment. 837 00:40:23,000 --> 00:40:26,270 I would entertain a motion to adjourn. So move second. 838 00:40:26,870 --> 00:40:30,870 Okay, we have a motion. And second. Any discussion? Okay. 839 00:40:30,970 --> 00:40:33,300 All in favor of adjourning please signify by saying aye. 840 00:40:33,930 --> 00:40:38,300 Aye. Aye. Opposed? Same sign. Stankey. We are adjourned.