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Okay, welcome to the Tuesday, September
8th select board meeting. If we would uh

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we're being recorded. If we rise for the
pledge.

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» I pledge allegiance to the flag of the
United States of America and to the

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republic for which it stands, one nation
under God, indivisible, with liberty and

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justice for all.

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Thank you. We'll begin this evening with
the town administrators report.

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» Good evening. Thank you. Uh I pretty
brief tonight since I think that we were

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together five or six business days ago
the last time. So uh first I wanted to

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give an update on the MSBA statement of
interest that we submitted along with

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the school committee last year or last
fiscal year in the spring. Uh we had a

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visit with the MSBA staff last week. Uh
which means we had made the first cut

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for the statement of interest. Um it was
a very informative discussion. We had a

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sort of sitdown session around the table
and then walked around middle school

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answering questions. We have a couple of
follow-ups that we're putting together

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for them. Um but we're excited that we
had made this initial cut and we're

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we're having the staff level review.
They will make recommendations to the

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MSBA board uh in early December. So
we're looking forward to hearing more

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about that. Uh second second piece of
news I wanted to share and I think some

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folks have already seen this. Uh EOHLC
uh announced last Thursday funding for a

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number of affordable housing projects
across the state and thankfully uh we

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were able to celebrate along with BBH
that the funding for the project um at

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Veterans Crossing was approved. It's an
important first step uh in moving

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forward with the state. We're excited
for the milestone, but there's plenty of

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work ahead. So we'll continue to share
updates as they're warranted. Um, third,

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probably the only news news I'm sharing
with it with folks is uh in working with

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the recck department, we are going to be
building off the success of the World

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Cup on the town lawn uh town hall lawn
by piloting a limited number of Patriots

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games this fall. Uh we were able to work
out the licensing over the last few

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weeks. We're working on the scheduling
right now. It will not be every game. um

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probably you know two three or four this
year if that just to see if it's an idea

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that will work see how cold it is see
how everyone reacts to it but um it was

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such a big success with the World Cup
games that we wanted to see if this is

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something we could explore and thank you
to Charlotte and Christina for running

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down the licensing on that so that's
exciting there'll be more news on that

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as the details are finalized um and
finally just want to share a reminder

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that the 911 remembrance ceremony will
be held on Friday uh starting promptly

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at 9:55 at the fire headquarters. If
anyone's available to attend, we would

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love to have you join us. Um, and that
program will run about 45 minutes. And

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with that, I'm happy to take any
questions you all may have.

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» Thank you, Nick.
>> So, the

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Can you hear me?
>> Just speak loud.

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» Okay. Um, does the MSBA um MSBA
discussion that you're having was that

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if I remember correctly from earlier
this year that was to be inclusive of

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both a uh rehab as well as a
reconstruct. Correct. Just want to make

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sure that's still
>> part of

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» Yeah, it's renovation or rebuild. That's
something that they we would work with

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any designer if we were to move forward
um to figure out what the best option

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is. But we looked at it from sort of
both angles as part of the discussion as

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a statement of interest indicated we'd
be open to either with the location

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staying the same.
>> Okay.

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» Anyone else?
>> Could you just remind us what the

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in a perfect world which obviously never
happens. Timeline is for when a when you

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do these walkthroughs with MSBA if we
are accepted under every you know round

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here.
>> Yep.

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» What that timeline is because I know
it's rather extensive.

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» Six to seven years most likely.
>> Yeah. It's five to seven, but not many

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projects are right done in five. So,
it's really a six to seven year.

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» And that's for financing to come through
before construction.

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» That's the whole that's the whole thing.
Yeah.

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» And there's a number of steps throughout
where you know, we would have money for

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the feasibility study and design um you
know,

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» in advance of the next step. And then we
get, you know, there sort of, the way we

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described it last spring was um there's
a number of on-ramps and off-ramps

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throughout the process where we ask the
community to take a really active role

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whether in voting or in weighing in on
different steps in the process.

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» Got it. Thank you.

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» Um I have a question on the veterans
housing. Mhm.

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» So now that we've we're in the first
round and um Kim Martin Epipstein

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actually commented on it that it's very
rare to be able to get that much funding

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and support in the first round which
says a lot about our community and about

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the project. I think that we need to
work as quickly as possible to start

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identifying our process on how we're
going to help the community. And um I'm

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going to give you a call and talk about
a couple ways and I think where there is

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some extra money in case we need money
to send out mailers and flyers or things

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like that. I know that the town um we
give $2,000 a month over to the VFW

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right now to support veterans and I
think that'd be a good way going forward

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to use that money to help get the word
out to market it and identify it and

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» as we move to towards occupancy.
>> Yeah. Okay. Yep. So, and then also, you

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know, getting a process in which we put
together a committee that's going to

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start, you know, working really hard on
we have over 400 veterans in in town.

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So, you know, in town and then also in
Lynn, people who have lived here or in

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Salem that have lived here that would
still qualify. And I just want to make

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sure we get that ball rolling. And then
the other thing I just want to comment

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on last week's meeting. Um when Patrick
came, Patrick came and gave us the

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update on uh the shortfall on the
overlay and on the um the fund the

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additional care funding. And I have to
tell you, it really it bothered me. It

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It's bothered me quite a bit because for
two reasons. One is we never heard a

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word about it, not one word until last
week. And I just think that that's that

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we can never that can't happen. We have
to the select board and the finance

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committee need to be given updates on
what's going on. The fact that over

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$200,000 is not being covered by the
federal government. And I know that

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there was a lot of comments that
those are, you know, if we were to have

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a class action lawsuit, it would be a
lot of legal fees. But I do want to look

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into that with other communities. And I
do want to get, you know, Senator Marky

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to comment on how is it possible because
during that whole process, we had our

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finance director and our town
administrator was was constantly

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reporting back to us and working very
hard to spend that money correctly and

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going over it over it and over it. And
to now be told that it's not being

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covered by the federal government, I I
just can't take that as, oh, okay, we'll

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we'll take it. I think one I would like
to see the select board be sent all the

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information that was sent to us. Um what
is it we didn't why is it they're saying

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we don't qualify. What were the rules?
Because all we did was made sure that

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testing was available. And if they're
saying, "Oh, we're not going to cover

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you for testing." I I really need to
have a better understanding of why we're

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not being tested, why we why we're not
being covered for testing. And then um

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on the overlay I the overlay I'll talk
to Patrick so I can get a better

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understanding of the overlay but still
the overlay seems a little odd to me

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that we had that much of an overlay when
all the tax bills haven't been processed

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in the given year. So I just I want to
get a better understanding of that. But

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the most important thing is I don't I
don't want to get blindsided again last

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minute. So, if you could just put a note
that if there's something outstanding on

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a balance sheet, let us know right away.
>> We'll do.

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» Thank you.
>> Sure.

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» Okay. We will move on to public comment.
Uh public comment is three minutes and

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we are going to use this microphone here
because there is no micro. Oh, we're

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going to move that microphone to the
stand. Okay. Maybe you could just hand

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that microphone to Mr. Dementoto for now
so that he doesn't have to make the

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journey.
>> Oh, yeah. Thank you, Joe. Appreciate

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that.
>> Does this come out?

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» Thank you.

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» Good evening, Bill Dementoto,
108 Paradise Road. I am here to

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celebrate
the funding of the veterans project

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which is close
to everyone who was concerned about

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affordable housing in the town of
Swamskitt.

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This is the biggest project
since 1971

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when Darity Circle was approved for
housing.

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The biggest since then
and it's only the biggest because it's

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the second other than the 38 unit Michon
school. It is something to celebrate and

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I didn't didn't want to miss it.
So much so that I know uh I heard just

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heard Mary Allen say
there should be a committee to try to

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identify uh veterans who might be
eligible. And I want this board to know

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that I am going to form an ad hoc
veterans

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committee of five people to seek out
with the veterans agent every veteran

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in this town
to find out what their status is and to

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see if they are eligible. And I'm I'm
thrilled that there's 41 units that for

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the first time I believe will actually
be built.

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The naysayers will complain.

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They always do. But
thanks to the three members of the board

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who were involved in the granting and
the two new members and a new town

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administrator and a new town planner,
I think this is going to happen. So,

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thank you.
>> Thank you.

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Additional public comment.

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Okay, I have uh seeing none, I will move
on to one that was emailed

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and this is from uh Mr. James Andrews uh
133 Stson Avenue. Uh there are some

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links he gives which will be
incorporated into the minutes. So if

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you'd like to um see them, please check
out our minutes for at the next meeting.

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Uh, dear select board, I'm unable to
attend public comment this evening, but

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would appreciate the following be made
part of the public record. On August

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27th board meeting, at on the August
27th board meeting, Captain Cable

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presented a proposal that would change
parking. During this presentation, he

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repeatedly repeatedly referenced the
Wescot property and this was

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subsequently described by a board member
as not being a transit property. Per

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mass housing financing minutes on 8823,
the financing for this development was

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approved on the basis of a transit
oriented development within walking

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distance.3 miles point sorry 0.3 miles
of Swampscott MBTA commuter rail station

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as well as being served by the MBTA bus
service alongside Essex Street. Uh the

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developer own study indicated that the
initial proposal had a 75% shortfall in

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the number of required on-site parking
spaces per Swampscott zoning

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regulations. According to the TIA, there
are 109 parking spaces proposed for the

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128 multif family housing units, which
is calculated to be 0.85 parking spaces

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per unit. God bless you. A strict
interpretation of the zoning

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requirements would require 192 spaces
based on current zoning requirements

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provides the link. Considerable effort
was made by the town and impacted

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residents and the developer in 21 and 22
to negotiate a reduction in the impact

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of this development. Concessions on both
sides ended up with a parking agreement

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and a plan that outlined the following.
Reduction from 120 to 114 units.

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Increased on-site parking from 109 to
130. Increased ratio parking became 1.08

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spaces per unit instead of 085 spaces
per unit. Easement plan to connect

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Pitman to rail trail transit
infrastructure. As a resident, I am

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concerned that after two years of
opening, the town has already appeared

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to be backtracking on this agreement.
Based on the swamp scout's own zoning

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requirements, the failure to maintain
this agreement would lead to an

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additional 60 to 70 vehicles competing
for parking on the over congested area

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of town. I'm also concerned that if town
is incapable of managing the provisions

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under which uh I am also concerned that
if the town is incapable of managing the

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provisions under which a controversial
property such as the WCOT was permitted,

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then I question whether residents should
trust anything the town says regarding

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other reszoning proposals or future
developments. James Andrews. So his

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links will be um available in the
minutes

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and we will move on to
um the new and old business. Actually we

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I would like to consider given the time
to just bump the consent agenda because

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we do have one individual who is on the
consent agenda who's here, Kelly Russo.

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So, if it would be okay to take the
consent agenda now so that we can allow

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Kelly to enjoy her evening without us if
she so chooses.

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Um, so the consent agenda includes the
minutes, the entertainment license for

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Pomona, Miss Russo, and um Kristen Lewis
uh to climate action and resiliency. So,

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I will take a motion.
>> Motion to approve.

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» Can I have a second?
>> Second.

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» All in favor?
>> Hold on. I have a discussion.

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» Oh, go ahead. So, I just I was going to
pull the appointment of Kelly Russo only

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because I didn't really think that
having the appointment of Kelly Russo

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should be just in a consent agenda. Um,
and the reason I say that is I know

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Kelly Russo and she is an incredible
hardworking volunteer for this community

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and we are so lucky to have you. So, I
didn't think that you should just be in

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the consent agenda, but Sintella, you do
have to get going. Um, I I think it's

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we're really lucky to have you.
>> Thank you so much.

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Thank you.
>> Thank you. All right. All in favor?

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» I I
>> All right. So, we will now move on to

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new and old business. Thank you, Kelly,
for joining us.

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» Thank you so much.
>> And thank you for your time.

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» Thank you all for
>> Thank you.

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» All right. We will move on to two
proclamations this evening. Um September

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is National Suicide Prevention Month and
the select board makes the

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following proclamation. Whereas
September is recognized as National

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Suicide Prevention Month, a time
dedicated to raising awareness of mental

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health resources and suicide prevention
services available within our

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communities. This observation provides
an opportunity to encourage conversation

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about mental health and the impact of
suicide, reduce stigma, and the help to

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connect individuals and families with
appropriate support and resources. And

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whereas suicide remains a significant
public health concern that affects

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individuals of all ages and backgrounds,
as well as their friends, families,

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co-workers, neighbors, and communities.
And whereas the town of Swampscott

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recognizes that every life lost to
suicide has a profound and lasting

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impact on family members, friends,
co-workers, neighbors, and the greater

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community. And whereas the town of
Swampscott proudly supports those who

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work each day in the fields of mental
health, education, public safety, health

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care, and community service to provide
prevention, intervention, treatment,

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education, and support to individuals
and families. And whereas national and

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local mental health organizations and
community partners serve on the front

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lines of suicide prevention and mental
health advocacy, working to ensure that

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individuals know they are not alone and
that help and support are available. And

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whereas stigma surrounding suicide and
mental health challenges can prevent

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individuals from seeking the support
they need, making open conversation,

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education, compassion, and awareness
essential components of suicide

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prevention. And whereas we encourage all
residents to take the time to understand

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the importance of mental health and
suicide prevention, to recognize the

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signs that someone may need support, to
reach out to those who may be

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struggling, and to remember that care
for ourselves and one another includes

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caring for our mental health and
emotional well-being. Now therefore, be

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it proclaimed on behalf be it proclaimed
on behalf of the select board of the

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town of Swampscott, Massachusetts, that
September 2026 is hereby proclaimed as

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in the town of Swampscott,
Massachusetts. We inc uh National

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Suicide Prevention Month, and we
encourage all residents to join in the

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important observation by promoting
awareness, compassion, understanding,

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and support throughout our community.
And witness hereof, we here unto set our

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hands and cause the cause to be affixed
the great seal of the town of

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Swampscott, Massachusetts. this 8th day
of September, 2026.

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Um to pause for a moment, just check in
with folks, right? That's really what

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this is about. It's about bringing
recognition to um suicide awareness and

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to being active members of our
community, checking in with our

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neighbors, checking in with our friends,
making sure people have a place to be

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heard um so that we can prevent this
from happening to other friends and

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family members.
We have a second proclamation

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which I'll read unless I have a
volunteer.

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I'll read also give you a break if you
want.

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» Will you? That would be great. Thank you
so much.

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» Sure.
All right. The National Senior Center

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Month proclamation by the Swampscott
Select Board. Whereas since 2007,

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National Senior Center Month has been
pro celebrated each September as

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recognized by the National Council on
Aging and the National Institute of

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Senior Centers to celebrate senior
centers across the country and the

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important work they do to enrich and
enhance the lives of older adults. And

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whereas the Swampscott Senior Center is
committed to fostering an inclusive and

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welcoming community for all people and
recognizes and celebrates the diversity

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of our community. And whereas the town
of Swampscot supports the rights of

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every citizen to experience equality,
dignity, respect, and freedom from

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discrimination. And whereas the origins
of National Senior Center Month can be

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traced to National Senior Center Week,
first celebrated in May 1979 to

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recognize senior centers throughout the
nation and the essential role they play

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in supporting old adults, older adults,
and strengthening communities. And

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whereas in 1985, President Ronald Reagan
issued the first presidential

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proclamation recognizing National Senior
Center Week. And in 2007, the National

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Institute of Senior Centers expanded the
OB observance to an entire month,

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designating each September as National
Senior Center Month.

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And whereas since 2021, the town of
Swampscott has continued to strengthen

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its commitment to older adults through
dedicated leadership resources,

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programs, services, and opportunities
that support healthy and active aging.

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And whereas the Swampscott Senior Center
serves as an important community

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resource providing social, educational,
recreational, and wellness programs, as

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well as nutritious meals, transportation
services, and opportunities for

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connection and engagement. And whereas
the town of Swampscott is proud of its

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00:19:55,280 --> 00:20:02,160
growing senior community and recognizes
that senior c uh senior centers play an

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essential role in supporting the overall
health and well-being of older adults,

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particularly by reducing social
isolation, encouraging meaningful

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connections, and creating opportunities
for seniors to remain active and engaged

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00:20:11,360 --> 00:20:16,960
in their community. And whereas
Swampscott continues to envision

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00:20:15,360 --> 00:20:21,360
opportunities to serve residents of all
ages and generations while recognizing

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00:20:18,799 --> 00:20:25,600
the important role older adults play in
the strength, character, history, and

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00:20:23,120 --> 00:20:29,440
future of our community. And now,
therefore, be it proclaimed by virtue of

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the authority vested in the select board
of the town of Swamscott, Massachusetts,

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that the month of September 2026 is
hereby proclaimed as in the town of

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Swanscott, Massachusetts. And we
encourage all residents, businesses,

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00:20:39,280 --> 00:20:45,760
faith-based, and nonprofit institutions,
community groups, and public

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institutions to acknowledge, honor,
value, and celebrate the contributions

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of older adults to our community, and to
recognize the dedicated individuals who

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serve and support them each day. In
witness whereof, we have here unto set

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00:20:58,240 --> 00:21:03,600
our hands and cause to be affixed the
great seal of the town of Swampscott,

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Massachusetts, this 8th day of
September, 2026.

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Thank you, Ted. Appreciate that.
Appreciate all that the senior center

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continues to do for our aging
population,

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especially our
director ammeritus Heidi Weir and our

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current director. So,
we will move on to it is not quite 7

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o'clock and that's what we posted. Can I
still go on?

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00:21:29,520 --> 00:21:35,200
» We have to wait.
>> We have to wait. Okay. So, let's move on

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to what can we move on to for five
minutes? Discussion of the

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charter commission.
>> It's posted for 6:30.

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» It's It says 6:30 on here, but it was
posted in the paper as 7.

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» So, I don't want to start it um until
the publicly posted time.

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» So, that's why I'm waiting for IRA um to
open. Can we move on to the charter

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00:21:54,320 --> 00:21:59,840
conversation for five minutes or is it
going to take longer than that?

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00:21:57,200 --> 00:22:03,440
» I can just speak to it if that's okay.
>> Please. instead of the slides for now.

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00:22:02,000 --> 00:22:06,080
» Yes. And then we can go ahead.
>> If we even need to do the slides, we can

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00:22:05,039 --> 00:22:09,280
decide that later.
>> Go ahead.

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00:22:06,640 --> 00:22:13,200
» Um, so the the purpose of the review is
that there had been a handful of um

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folks that expressed interest in looking
at individual parts and pieces of the

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00:22:15,440 --> 00:22:20,640
charter and trying to understand if the
authorities

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00:22:18,799 --> 00:22:24,080
um the roles, the appointments and
structures, the budget and capital

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00:22:22,000 --> 00:22:28,400
process, if everything that we last
agreed on in 2016 is still, you know, in

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its appropriate form. Uh I know going
back to the draft of 2001 or 2002, the

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idea was that every 5 years, uh the town
would actually be taking a look at it.

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In the 2016 draft, we removed that
5-year uh look back. So now here we are

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10 years later thinking it's probably a
good time for us to take a few moments

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00:22:44,960 --> 00:22:52,880
um throughout a year or so to get
together and figure out uh what the best

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next steps might be. Um so as I said, it
largely dates from the 2016 revision.

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there were not a ton of changes made. Uh
I had some discussions with um Jerry

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00:22:59,919 --> 00:23:06,480
Perry because he was involved both in
the drafting and at least on the

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tangential parts of 2016, but he also
supported other communities in this

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00:23:07,840 --> 00:23:14,640
effort um at Mass DO to sort of
understand best practices and what's

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going on. And also currently, you know,
in the last 18 months, he's worked on a

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revision in Beverly as well. Uh
generally speaking, there's a process

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that that goes forward. It starts with a
charter review committee. Um in the past

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here in town we had gone to town meeting
with an article that would set forth the

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charge and the composition of that
committee. It's, you know, between five

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and seven people normally. Uh it would
be, you know, if it's at the five person

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level, it would like to be one
appointment from you all, one from the

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school committee, one from finance, and
potentially two from the moderator, at

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least looking at models that have been
used statewide. Uh to put together a

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group that would meet with um you know,
committee chairs, committee members,

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citizens throughout the course of a
year. Uh, I think when we talked about

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timeline last week or two weeks ago when
we when we last met, the question was

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sort of how long would we anticipate
this taking? If we were to go forward a

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town meeting in December, uh, I would
think that we would be looking at a

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12-month process where next December
they would be coming forward. So it's

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you know appoint um and appoint the
review body uh establish uh the charge

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and scope begin public input then we
move into the meetings with the boards

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and committees staff residents and
others uh to identify proposed changes

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into the spring of next year. Uh
throughout the spring and summer we

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would be categor categorizing the
recommendations and determining the

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legal path forward. There's two
different ways to do it. We can make

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some changes and it would likely just be
accepted as a home rule petition if it

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goes through town meeting. If we make
significant changes, it likely would

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also need to go to a referendum. So, it'
be town meeting uh the legislature and a

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00:24:48,320 --> 00:24:54,960
referendum all that is a decision in a
path we would probably wait to decide on

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until we get a little further along next
spring or summer so that we understand

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sort of the breadth of what the
suggested changes may be and we can

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figure out what would work best and then
we would be coming to town meeting uh a

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00:25:03,200 --> 00:25:08,640
year from now with that recommendation
and those changes. The other thing a lot

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of communities are doing right now is
they're working with outside

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consultants. Primarily, the Colin Center
works closely with communities to do

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this. I've reached out to them to look
at sort of a draft scope and to

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understand what a budget might look
like, making no commitment whatsoever

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other than letting them know that we're
sort of looking at this and I want to

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understand what that would look like if
we were to partner with them or another

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organization that's similar. Um, and
they help both facilitate the process of

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public engagement to make sure we're
leveraging um, you know, technology and

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things like I know SWAC had done
different um, surveys in town to make

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sure that the feedback was broader than
who may show up for a meeting whether in

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in person or virtual. Uh, so we would
work potentially with them on on things

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00:25:48,720 --> 00:25:53,200
like that, but they also have best
practices that they've developed over

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00:25:51,840 --> 00:25:56,640
the last few years working with
communities. this is one of their core

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competencies in support of
municipalities across the state. So, I

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00:25:59,039 --> 00:26:03,840
don't have the information on pricing in
that yet, but we're looking into that as

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00:26:01,679 --> 00:26:07,360
well. Um, but I'm happy to answer any
questions. Trying to keep this to five

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minutes so that we can facilitate a
discussion uh without stepping on the

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00:26:09,279 --> 00:26:15,360
IRA time too much.
>> Are there grant opportunities for to

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engage with
>> I would look at the community compact.

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00:26:16,799 --> 00:26:21,279
I'm not certain. I can look into that
though.

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00:26:19,520 --> 00:26:26,880
Can you help us understand what the
difference is between a committee and an

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elected formal charter commission?
>> Well, the appointed committee would

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allow it to be, you know, a number of
boards identifying, like I said, if

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there was a five participant board, it
would likely be one from each of the

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three committees I mentioned. And then
>> the one thing I neglected to say, the

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moderator would in the past at least
choose from elected town meeting

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members. So, it's not just picking, you
know, someone that has not been engaged

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00:26:46,480 --> 00:26:56,000
and involved. uh an elected process is
necessarily more political I think than

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a process where you know elected bodies
appoint someone that they think is well

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00:26:57,440 --> 00:27:04,480
qualified to help lead this process for
the community. But at what point do is

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00:27:01,760 --> 00:27:09,279
there a choice that we can make? Is I'm
just trying to understand the mechanisms

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00:27:06,000 --> 00:27:17,039
of how this proceeds in terms of are is
it the select board who sets the the the

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00:27:13,440 --> 00:27:22,080
delivery of how that committee operates?
In other words, I mean there's the

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00:27:19,520 --> 00:27:28,720
there's state law that dictates a
commission, right? Versus a committee.

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00:27:24,159 --> 00:27:33,760
at where does the town lie in an
obligation to fulfill that law?

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00:27:31,679 --> 00:27:37,440
In other words, do we are we forced to
create a commission?

384
00:27:35,919 --> 00:27:41,360
» It it is better to start with the
committee so that you can identify what

385
00:27:39,360 --> 00:27:45,840
the breadth of the changes are. If the
idea was to come back with

386
00:27:43,039 --> 00:27:49,039
» we need to change to a a mayor council
form of government. it would be a

387
00:27:47,679 --> 00:27:52,080
completely different idea than we want
to look at some appointment authorities

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00:27:50,640 --> 00:27:56,000
to make sure that they best represent
the community in this and that was

389
00:27:54,640 --> 00:27:59,360
really the questions that came up last
spring were really around appointment

390
00:27:57,200 --> 00:28:04,159
authority. It was not a wholesale change
of uh the sort of structure of town

391
00:28:02,240 --> 00:28:08,559
government. It was making sure that what
we're doing now and what we decided 10

392
00:28:05,919 --> 00:28:12,399
years ago still makes sense now um in
2026.

393
00:28:10,960 --> 00:28:14,960
» Does that represent I mean the three
members of the board does that

394
00:28:13,520 --> 00:28:17,520
reasonably represent the conversations
we had in the spring?

395
00:28:16,000 --> 00:28:19,919
» Yeah. Yeah.
>> So, are we gonna come back to this

396
00:28:18,880 --> 00:28:20,799
conversation?
>> We can.

397
00:28:20,559 --> 00:28:22,559
» Okay.
>> Sure. We could table it and then go to

398
00:28:22,159 --> 00:28:24,480
Iraq.
>> Yeah,

399
00:28:23,120 --> 00:28:28,480
» that's fine.
>> All right. So, we will table the rest of

400
00:28:26,080 --> 00:28:33,520
this and we will move on to the Earth
Removal Advisory Committee joint meeting

401
00:28:30,480 --> 00:28:37,520
and public hearing. This hearing was
postponed or was this a new hearing?

402
00:28:35,840 --> 00:28:44,159
Can't recall from
>> new open.

403
00:28:38,480 --> 00:28:49,840
» It was never opened. Great. Uh so uh if
you guys want to open your meeting,

404
00:28:48,480 --> 00:28:52,159
we have to vote to open the public
hearing first.

405
00:28:51,760 --> 00:28:53,919
» So move
>> say

406
00:28:53,360 --> 00:28:56,320
» second.
>> Second.

407
00:28:54,960 --> 00:29:00,840
» All in favor?
>> I now you guys can open your meeting.

408
00:29:01,600 --> 00:29:08,080
» Okay,
>> you're good.

409
00:29:04,799 --> 00:29:13,279
» Okay, great.
>> Thank you.

410
00:29:11,279 --> 00:29:17,520
All right, Joe, you want to take it
away?

411
00:29:13,840 --> 00:29:23,039
» Uh, sure. I when we last uh met on this
this topic, um when you had the permit

412
00:29:20,559 --> 00:29:29,200
in front of you, uh Iraq had uh asked
that you you uh postpone consideration

413
00:29:25,600 --> 00:29:34,080
of its approval because uh the town
earth removal bylaw has a lot of um

414
00:29:32,000 --> 00:29:39,840
conditions that are required to be part
of the permit. And um we did not include

415
00:29:38,000 --> 00:29:44,000
many of those provisions and we felt
that and nor did we address those

416
00:29:41,840 --> 00:29:48,799
provisions that we did not include in
the permit. And because this is the law

417
00:29:46,640 --> 00:29:53,520
of the land, we felt that we necess we
needed to say something about those

418
00:29:50,480 --> 00:29:58,399
provisions of the bylaw that we did not
include in this permit. So the only

419
00:29:56,880 --> 00:30:02,559
difference between the permit you have
in front of you and the one that you had

420
00:30:00,480 --> 00:30:11,520
um when we last met is the fourth
paragraph on the first page.

421
00:30:06,720 --> 00:30:17,600
And it effectively says that um
let me stop by saying that um these

422
00:30:14,880 --> 00:30:23,760
requirements are in uh the earth removal
uh by uh bylaw is article 13 and I'm

423
00:30:21,200 --> 00:30:27,520
specifically looking at section 4 which
is general limitations and under general

424
00:30:26,000 --> 00:30:32,799
limitations
uh there are um it it essentially says

425
00:30:30,799 --> 00:30:37,440
the permit shall include but not be
limited to conditions that address the

426
00:30:35,039 --> 00:30:41,919
following and there are approximately 18
different conditions that need to be uh

427
00:30:39,840 --> 00:30:49,360
addressed. We did not address them all.
And this paragraph explains why not all

428
00:30:46,399 --> 00:30:53,760
of those uh conditions are addressed.
And in large part, it's because they

429
00:30:51,520 --> 00:31:00,080
either are inapplicable,
impractical, impossible,

430
00:30:56,480 --> 00:31:06,080
and and um so we did not include them,
but we also um didn't want to say

431
00:31:03,039 --> 00:31:13,679
nothing about them. And for for example
um in in the bylaw it says that um

432
00:31:11,600 --> 00:31:20,240
the permit shall include conditions that
address type and location of structures.

433
00:31:16,559 --> 00:31:25,279
First of all it's vague. Um second maybe
it refers to a construction trailer but

434
00:31:23,279 --> 00:31:28,960
planning would take care of that. um
once once a project goes through

435
00:31:27,360 --> 00:31:33,919
planning and zoning and the building
inspector does does Iraq really have the

436
00:31:32,159 --> 00:31:38,240
authority to say no no we don't like
those structures we want to put them

437
00:31:35,360 --> 00:31:43,279
elsewhere it doesn't or it shouldn't so
of these uh provisions uh set up

438
00:31:40,480 --> 00:31:48,399
conflict but there if at best they're
redundant but um at worst conflict

439
00:31:46,000 --> 00:31:52,720
another one is uh number seven the area
and depth of excavation again that's

440
00:31:51,279 --> 00:31:56,159
something that's going to be dictated by
the permits that the project has

441
00:31:54,559 --> 00:32:00,960
received
does have the ability or or the board of

442
00:31:58,880 --> 00:32:05,679
select the select board have the ability
to come in and say no no we don't like

443
00:32:03,200 --> 00:32:09,279
that we don't you know we want you to do
instead of 10 feet we want you to do 8

444
00:32:07,760 --> 00:32:16,320
feet even though you have a permit for
10 ft so we felt we had to say something

445
00:32:11,840 --> 00:32:20,720
in the permit that addresses why
that is not a condition in the permit

446
00:32:18,240 --> 00:32:24,799
and many and many others and that fourth
paragraph is what uh accomplishes that

447
00:32:23,360 --> 00:32:29,519
purpose
Um the select board certainly has the

448
00:32:27,279 --> 00:32:35,279
prerogative to say, well, we do want
some of these conditions that that IRA

449
00:32:32,399 --> 00:32:38,480
did not address included. And if we and
if that were the case, there would have

450
00:32:36,559 --> 00:32:43,279
to be discussion and we'd go back and
and and if that were the case, I don't

451
00:32:40,240 --> 00:32:49,200
think IRA would have to approve again. I
think we're at the select board stage.

452
00:32:45,120 --> 00:32:55,519
So changes that you prefer to make, you
you can make. So, uh that's where we're

453
00:32:52,080 --> 00:33:00,880
at. So uh uh you know certainly uh
willing to entertain any discussion of u

454
00:32:57,760 --> 00:33:04,799
every any aspect of the permit. Um I
have nothing really more to present and

455
00:33:02,720 --> 00:33:10,399
and would recommend that the select
board um accept the recommendation of

456
00:33:07,360 --> 00:33:13,399
IRA for the permit for 555 uh Essex
Street.

457
00:33:13,519 --> 00:33:23,600
» Okay. Um I just have a couple follow-ups
to what this new paragraph. Um, are we

458
00:33:21,840 --> 00:33:28,480
considering
the any adjustments to the bylaw post

459
00:33:26,559 --> 00:33:32,720
this permit outside of
>> Yeah. Um,

460
00:33:30,480 --> 00:33:37,440
we we have uh talked about taking a look
at the bylaw uh and presenting

461
00:33:35,600 --> 00:33:38,240
amendments uh for the spring town
meeting.

462
00:33:37,840 --> 00:33:43,919
» Great.
>> So, uh we haven't gotten into that yet,

463
00:33:40,000 --> 00:33:48,159
but uh it's the bylaw. It's it's
there are provisions in the bylaw that

464
00:33:45,519 --> 00:33:51,039
are appropriate for standalone projects
that have a beginning and an end. And

465
00:33:49,919 --> 00:33:53,440
then we have the quarry
>> right

466
00:33:51,519 --> 00:33:56,799
» and there are many provisions here that
just don't apply to the quarry and there

467
00:33:55,200 --> 00:34:01,840
are many that don't apply to a
standalone project. So uh we are going

468
00:33:59,360 --> 00:34:05,039
to be discussing how we can segregate
those

469
00:34:02,720 --> 00:34:10,960
» and clarify them and make them less
vague and um so yes that'll be coming in

470
00:34:08,000 --> 00:34:18,240
the spring.
>> I have a couple questions. one is uh

471
00:34:13,760 --> 00:34:23,839
under four 4D for contaminated soil and
material. How is that monitored?

472
00:34:21,599 --> 00:34:30,720
» Well, I think a lot of the problems with
with forc in the bylaw is that there's

473
00:34:28,000 --> 00:34:36,560
no mechanism to enforce. Uh there's no
penalties if enforcement found a a

474
00:34:33,599 --> 00:34:40,079
problem. So, I don't think it's
practical or realistic to think that

475
00:34:38,240 --> 00:34:46,320
Iraq members are going to be monitoring
going down at the at at project sites

476
00:34:42,720 --> 00:34:51,800
and and monitoring um a lot of what goes
down. Although Tony might I mean uh

477
00:34:52,639 --> 00:35:03,040
» but um
>> but uh we have addressed the um these

478
00:35:00,079 --> 00:35:07,520
issues with with um the project u
representatives and so if you wanted

479
00:35:04,960 --> 00:35:11,200
detail on how that those those items are
being handled I think they are better

480
00:35:09,200 --> 00:35:15,680
position to discuss that. You want to
say something? Could I suggest um I

481
00:35:13,920 --> 00:35:20,160
don't know if you're ready to kind of
give an overview um Andy or Ken or Nick.

482
00:35:18,880 --> 00:35:23,920
I'm guessing you're here to speak on the
project. Could you give an overview of

483
00:35:21,760 --> 00:35:27,520
the scope that this permit is going to
be authorizing?

484
00:35:25,599 --> 00:35:32,720
» We'd be glad to. Just just for the
record, my name is attorney Ken Shutzer.

485
00:35:30,320 --> 00:35:38,720
I'm really here on behalf of the Davis
Company who is doing the construction

486
00:35:35,599 --> 00:35:43,680
Callahan of the project of the 161
residential units. Um the applicant Nick

487
00:35:42,320 --> 00:35:47,680
Manino is the one who was actually doing
the site work and he's be the one who

488
00:35:46,160 --> 00:35:52,240
filled out the application and could
probably give you more of the technical

489
00:35:49,440 --> 00:35:55,359
details than I but we we assembled this
group in anticipation that you never

490
00:35:54,160 --> 00:36:00,240
know what's going to be asked until
you're asked. U we we see the project

491
00:35:58,000 --> 00:36:05,839
coming along. We're very proud of what
what hopefully you've seen and we just

492
00:36:02,880 --> 00:36:12,320
uh as a result of removing more than uh
400 cubic yards of soil. Um we've we've

493
00:36:09,920 --> 00:36:17,440
triggered the point where Iraq is now
involved and clearly you are as well as

494
00:36:14,560 --> 00:36:20,960
the as the permitting authority. So if
you want to direct any questions to Mr.

495
00:36:19,040 --> 00:36:25,680
Manino, I'm sure he'll be glad to answer
them for you.

496
00:36:22,720 --> 00:36:29,200
» That would be great if what's the like
what is the amount of cubic earth you're

497
00:36:27,599 --> 00:36:34,880
going to be moving? What's the like just
give me a 30,000 foot of what activities

498
00:36:33,280 --> 00:36:38,640
we are going to be permitting through
this beyond the fact that you're going

499
00:36:36,160 --> 00:36:44,160
to be moving 450 ft or more offsite.
>> So Nick Manino from Manino Construction

500
00:36:41,200 --> 00:36:51,359
representing uh Callahan and the owner
Davis Companies. Uh the site's a unique

501
00:36:47,119 --> 00:36:57,440
site 555 is it's a big project with 163
units but everyone was familiar with it.

502
00:36:54,400 --> 00:37:04,800
A relatively flat parking lot. There's
not uh we have some we generate

503
00:37:01,520 --> 00:37:10,960
more earth removal sometimes from a a
single family residence than we do this

504
00:37:07,839 --> 00:37:15,920
you know rather big site because our our
cuts and fills are very close. So uh

505
00:37:13,920 --> 00:37:20,560
that's kind of an overview. The short
answer is about a thousand cubic yards.

506
00:37:19,040 --> 00:37:27,440
Um
and uh and fortunately the material that

507
00:37:24,079 --> 00:37:34,160
was put in there when the parking lot
was uh built 30 or so years ago was

508
00:37:31,839 --> 00:37:38,560
hauled down from aggregate industries at
the time. I think it was Lin Sand and

509
00:37:35,839 --> 00:37:43,520
Stone are our our aggregate now
wholesome uh and that's been approved

510
00:37:41,760 --> 00:37:50,640
through
uh through Callahan and the geotechnical

511
00:37:47,760 --> 00:37:57,760
engineers that geoengineering
uh that we have on site to reuse

512
00:37:54,160 --> 00:38:02,160
um most if not all of that material. So,
uh, it's it's a relatively small amount

513
00:38:00,320 --> 00:38:06,000
of material that will leave the site for
such a large site. Yeah.

514
00:38:04,560 --> 00:38:08,320
» How much of the material is moving off
site?

515
00:38:06,640 --> 00:38:10,960
» About 1,000 yards.
>> Okay. Thousand yards. The rest of it's

516
00:38:09,520 --> 00:38:14,720
going to remain on site in some other
Okay.

517
00:38:11,280 --> 00:38:20,079
» Yeah. To give a, you know, comparison,
there was 30 30,000 yards moved off for

518
00:38:18,079 --> 00:38:25,680
the uh, elementary school that was
recently built.

519
00:38:23,359 --> 00:38:32,240
» Thank you. I have a question about the
big dirt pile next to stop and shop. Um

520
00:38:30,240 --> 00:38:38,720
I have had calls from people asking is
it healthy that there's this huge dirt

521
00:38:34,800 --> 00:38:44,560
pile down in our area here and um and
there so I have had concerns about

522
00:38:41,040 --> 00:38:48,800
whether or not that's a health hazard or
whatever kind of issues might come of

523
00:38:46,480 --> 00:38:54,320
that. So and it says here in the permit
that it gets sprayed down um etc. But is

524
00:38:52,240 --> 00:39:00,079
it being sprayed down on the weekends or
is that how is that being monitored?

525
00:38:57,200 --> 00:39:07,359
» So the the material we have a water
truck on site and it is sprayed down

526
00:39:03,280 --> 00:39:11,680
regularly. Uh it it isn't and we have
worked in there on an occasional

527
00:39:08,960 --> 00:39:15,839
Saturday for a little bit but uh for the
most part no it's not sprayed down but

528
00:39:13,520 --> 00:39:21,520
it's also not dug and moved around on
Saturday. So, it's usually when we're

529
00:39:19,200 --> 00:39:26,640
digging into the material and and
loading it. Um, we're we're adding to

530
00:39:24,320 --> 00:39:32,000
that pile as we dig foundations and then
we're removing from that pile as we back

531
00:39:29,040 --> 00:39:37,119
fill the foundations, you know, creating
as much of a balanced site as we can.

532
00:39:34,720 --> 00:39:41,440
So, it's it's as we're moving it around
the site, tracking around with heavy

533
00:39:39,520 --> 00:39:47,920
dump trucks and loaders that you tend to
kick up the dust and and need to keep

534
00:39:43,599 --> 00:39:53,359
the site wet to minimize um minimize the
dust, which is the real problem. And uh

535
00:39:50,720 --> 00:39:58,640
the loom pile that was there was hydroed
and the the earth pile that's there

536
00:39:56,160 --> 00:40:01,520
that's being reused is wet regularly
certainly when we're digging into it.

537
00:40:00,560 --> 00:40:05,760
» Great. Makes sense.
>> Thank you. So I I have a question about

538
00:40:03,280 --> 00:40:09,200
the the Japanese notwheat part of this.
I know this was discussed in prior Iraq

539
00:40:07,599 --> 00:40:14,400
meetings. Um can you give us an update
as to how you're managing that actively?

540
00:40:11,920 --> 00:40:18,400
Has it been moved off site? Is it is it
separately identified? And I thought

541
00:40:16,400 --> 00:40:27,119
there was conversation recently about
hydro seeding the Japanese not weed pile

542
00:40:22,720 --> 00:40:31,680
which doesn't necessarily aid in its um
what's the word I'm trying to find? Uh

543
00:40:28,720 --> 00:40:35,760
diffusion into the environment. Can you
talk a little bit about what you're

544
00:40:32,720 --> 00:40:41,079
doing with with that?
>> I'll let Mike from Calan talk to it.

545
00:40:41,119 --> 00:40:49,040
» So, the the pile of lom that was hydro
seated is also the pile that the

546
00:40:46,640 --> 00:40:54,160
Japanese not wood grew in.
Um, we've hired a consultant who has

547
00:40:52,640 --> 00:41:00,880
come up with a rough plan on how to
treat it. And at the same time, we

548
00:40:57,280 --> 00:41:05,359
covered it with tarps today to help as
it starts to flower this fall, minimize

549
00:41:03,599 --> 00:41:10,800
how much of it could spread to other
properties.

550
00:41:07,040 --> 00:41:16,319
But the gist of the treatment would be
to cut it, spray it with a pesticide in

551
00:41:14,880 --> 00:41:23,920
the end of September, beginning of
October this year, and then next year

552
00:41:19,599 --> 00:41:28,560
cut it in June and spray it in September
as well.

553
00:41:26,560 --> 00:41:31,800
» Okay.
>> Thank you.

554
00:41:33,200 --> 00:41:39,040
» And I'll add something to that. It it
looks worse now because it's all in one

555
00:41:38,079 --> 00:41:44,240
spot,
>> but it's actually a lot easier for the

556
00:41:42,240 --> 00:41:48,560
control of it, whether it's covering it
with tops or treating it. It was spread

557
00:41:46,480 --> 00:41:54,640
out all along Essex Street, and it's a
real problem u on on a lot of sites, you

558
00:41:52,640 --> 00:41:58,800
know, throughout the town and the state.
So, we're it's it's a bit of of a

559
00:41:57,200 --> 00:42:03,280
learning curve for all of us, but the
fact that it's in one condensed pile is

560
00:42:00,880 --> 00:42:07,280
making the treatment plan a little bit
easier. And so when you do use

561
00:42:05,280 --> 00:42:12,000
pesticides because the drainage area
does go straight to the ocean is there

562
00:42:09,599 --> 00:42:16,880
consideration of making sure that there
is no again diffusion of the product

563
00:42:14,960 --> 00:42:22,400
into the into the basin.
>> So there that has been

564
00:42:19,920 --> 00:42:27,040
that was discussed with the consultant
we were talking about which is why he's

565
00:42:24,400 --> 00:42:31,440
still going back and forth on a final
written plan of okay I'm going to use

566
00:42:28,800 --> 00:42:36,480
this pesticide or this one. And I think
that's part of the um part of what he's

567
00:42:35,359 --> 00:42:42,400
looking into.
>> So you really don't have a plan.

568
00:42:38,960 --> 00:42:45,200
» Could you have the people speak up?
>> Sure. I'd be glad to have the people

569
00:42:43,760 --> 00:42:49,040
speak up. Could you just speak into the
microphone so it circulates through the

570
00:42:47,920 --> 00:42:52,480
room?
>> Thank you.

571
00:42:50,240 --> 00:42:56,160
So, I was saying um that's part of the
consultant's issue right now is that

572
00:42:54,560 --> 00:43:01,520
he's going back and forth and making
sure whatever pesticide he decides to

573
00:42:58,480 --> 00:43:04,520
use doesn't cause any environmental
issues.

574
00:43:06,800 --> 00:43:13,480
» Okay.
Additional questions outside of the

575
00:43:10,480 --> 00:43:13,480
notweed?

576
00:43:13,760 --> 00:43:20,640
I'm seeing none,
>> we will move on to a motion. Motion to

577
00:43:18,800 --> 00:43:22,400
close the public hearing. Is that what
you're looking for?

578
00:43:21,040 --> 00:43:27,040
» Do we have to any public comment?
>> We will end the public hearing first and

579
00:43:24,960 --> 00:43:31,760
then take the motion after.
>> I was asking if we do public comments.

580
00:43:30,319 --> 00:43:36,040
» We do have public comment as part of the
public hearing. Is do any of the public?

581
00:43:36,319 --> 00:43:40,480
» Anybody online?
>> No.

582
00:43:37,839 --> 00:43:44,400
» Nope. Thanks for the reminder. Looks
like we're good.

583
00:43:42,880 --> 00:43:48,079
» So, we have a motion on the table to
close the public hearing. Can I have a

584
00:43:45,680 --> 00:43:51,440
second? Ted. All in favor?
>> I

585
00:43:48,400 --> 00:43:54,960
» I Okay, we will now move for a motion.
>> Motion to approve the public. Motion to

586
00:43:53,200 --> 00:43:57,040
approve the permit.
>> Second.

587
00:43:55,599 --> 00:43:59,200
» All in favor?
>> I.

588
00:43:58,319 --> 00:44:05,640
» Thank you all.
>> Thank you very much. Thank you for

589
00:44:00,880 --> 00:44:05,640
joining us and for the information.

590
00:44:06,880 --> 00:44:15,280
» We will move on to the Kleinfelder
report. We did receive some an email

591
00:44:13,119 --> 00:44:20,319
from the public asking us to speak very
clearly into our microphones because it

592
00:44:17,280 --> 00:44:25,839
is difficult to hear even online. So if
we could get very close like a rock star

593
00:44:23,200 --> 00:44:30,280
as Joe said that would be helpful to
them.

594
00:44:26,560 --> 00:44:30,280
» Can you make me present?

595
00:44:33,920 --> 00:44:38,599
» Thank you Iraq. Thank you.

596
00:44:42,319 --> 00:44:45,400
All right.

597
00:44:47,440 --> 00:44:50,560
» There's another microphone there if you
want to.

598
00:44:49,440 --> 00:44:55,400
» Who does that?
>> Who?

599
00:44:51,440 --> 00:44:55,400
» Trying to do it for me right now.

600
00:44:56,079 --> 00:44:59,880
» So, I can share the slides.

601
00:45:01,839 --> 00:45:08,960
» Okay. Maybe you guys could start while
we try to pull the slides up.

602
00:45:06,319 --> 00:45:14,640
» Sure. Um, I guess I'll just make an
opening comment. This is David Peterson

603
00:45:10,880 --> 00:45:18,319
with Kleinfelder. Um we do have a three
different companies that kind of worked

604
00:45:16,240 --> 00:45:22,480
on this as well as a bunch of folks from
the town. So I just want to make

605
00:45:19,440 --> 00:45:26,560
acknowledgements and we also have um
representatives from Mallister Marine

606
00:45:24,480 --> 00:45:30,480
Engineering here and Woodsole Group as
well as Kleinfelder. So I want to

607
00:45:27,760 --> 00:45:34,160
acknowledge the consultant team. Um so
Brandon Raymond is to my left from

608
00:45:32,000 --> 00:45:39,119
Woodshole Group, Seth Bryant from
Kleinfelder and then on the um screen

609
00:45:36,880 --> 00:45:46,079
there is John McAllister. Hopefully we
can get the technology work that he can

610
00:45:40,560 --> 00:45:51,280
speak. Um and so um you know we were um
first brought together to work on this

611
00:45:48,480 --> 00:45:55,680
coastal resiliency plan um focused
specifically on Fisherman's Beach. Um

612
00:45:53,680 --> 00:45:59,680
Doug Thompson I think was the you sort
of the the force behind it from the

613
00:45:57,200 --> 00:46:03,839
select board originally and um you know
so it it it started from there.

614
00:46:01,839 --> 00:46:08,720
Originally we were pursuing some grant
funding for the project. Um we were

615
00:46:06,480 --> 00:46:13,680
unfortunately unable to uh get the grant
but we were very happy that the town

616
00:46:10,800 --> 00:46:19,440
proceeded with a lesser scoped project.
Um, and one of the themes and

617
00:46:17,200 --> 00:46:23,839
recommendations of this is, you know,
because we had to cut the scope down and

618
00:46:21,359 --> 00:46:26,960
the cost down, um, we didn't have much
of a public outreach or any real public

619
00:46:25,440 --> 00:46:31,200
outreach piece at all, that's going to
be a really critical part of, you know,

620
00:46:29,119 --> 00:46:36,800
any future steps. Um, and we have a
slide about that later. Um, so in terms

621
00:46:34,160 --> 00:46:41,280
of the the the last slide, which I'll
just talk about it now because we don't

622
00:46:39,599 --> 00:46:47,520
need to wait till the end. um in terms
of who was involved in the town. So um

623
00:46:44,319 --> 00:46:53,440
Marsy Galaska and Tim Milikin um were
part of it. Gino Cresta, Martha Schmidt,

624
00:46:50,480 --> 00:46:58,720
Liz Smith, Jackson Schultz, Tadoulie. So
we had a variety of um meetings and

625
00:46:55,920 --> 00:47:03,760
input um from town officials and and
committee members. Um but you know,

626
00:47:00,960 --> 00:47:07,520
lacking is like a really at large um you
know, public outreach campaign, which is

627
00:47:05,680 --> 00:47:13,680
something that we we know will need to
um happen in the future.

628
00:47:09,839 --> 00:47:18,240
Um, so, um, the technical team is
everyone who's not me. So, um, I know

629
00:47:16,079 --> 00:47:22,000
you guys want to hear from, um, you
know, Seth and and Brandon and John. So,

630
00:47:20,480 --> 00:47:24,880
I'm going to turn it over to Seth who
will facilitate the rest of the

631
00:47:23,599 --> 00:47:29,119
presentation.
>> Shannon, are you able to take John off

632
00:47:27,119 --> 00:47:32,720
mute
>> or at least allow him? Oh, he's off.

633
00:47:31,200 --> 00:47:35,839
Okay, he's good. Okay, thank you. Never
mind. You're good.

634
00:47:34,000 --> 00:47:38,560
» Is he able to speak? Do we know? Did
that technical hiccup tested?

635
00:47:38,319 --> 00:47:42,599
» Okay.
>> Oh, okay. How you doing? You want to

636
00:47:39,599 --> 00:47:42,599
try?

637
00:47:42,640 --> 00:47:49,599
» Nope. We can't hear him.
>> We can see you talking, but we cannot

638
00:47:46,960 --> 00:47:54,480
hear you, sir.
>> Let's uh keep going and maybe

639
00:47:53,040 --> 00:47:57,040
somebody else can act like his voice.
>> Yeah, we're prepared to cover his

640
00:47:56,079 --> 00:48:01,119
content.
>> Thank you. We'll come back if we can get

641
00:47:59,440 --> 00:48:03,200
it to work, but let's go a different
direction.

642
00:48:01,680 --> 00:48:06,560
» Yeah, he's a few slides in, so
>> Okay, good.

643
00:48:03,760 --> 00:48:10,880
» Perfect. Has a little bit of time. Um,
sure. So to get started um just a quick

644
00:48:09,359 --> 00:48:14,160
agenda. We'll give some background on
the project. Uh the aim of this project

645
00:48:12,800 --> 00:48:18,480
was both to look at what is the
vulnerability for Swamp Scott on the

646
00:48:15,839 --> 00:48:22,480
coast uh particularly around Fisherman's
Beach. Um so we'll start with that

647
00:48:20,720 --> 00:48:26,800
vulnerability assessments and then move
into an alternatives analysis uh where

648
00:48:24,880 --> 00:48:30,800
we dug in and looked at what type of
solutions might be appropriate for the

649
00:48:28,400 --> 00:48:35,040
coast to protect um your town from
flooding in the future. Um from there uh

650
00:48:33,839 --> 00:48:39,280
Brandon and Wood which whole group
worked on some modeling to show um what

651
00:48:37,760 --> 00:48:42,720
the benefit of some of these solutions
might look like. Um then we'll move on

652
00:48:40,720 --> 00:48:47,359
to recommendations.
Next slide.

653
00:48:45,040 --> 00:48:50,720
Um so just real quickly to give some
background on what your coastal

654
00:48:48,720 --> 00:48:56,160
vulnerability looks like, we looked at a
range of scenarios um for various

655
00:48:53,280 --> 00:49:01,440
climate horizons. So looking at 2030,
2050, 2070, looking with sea level rise,

656
00:48:59,440 --> 00:49:06,480
um how the risk might change moving
forward. Um I have just a snapshot here

657
00:49:03,920 --> 00:49:10,559
of what in 2030 the projected coastal
risk is. Um so this shows the

658
00:49:08,559 --> 00:49:14,480
probability in a given year that these
areas might flood. Um and you can see

659
00:49:12,800 --> 00:49:19,119
the dark blue on the left over by Kings
Beach right on the Lind border um has a

660
00:49:16,880 --> 00:49:23,119
highest probability extending inland.
Um, and then the focus of this project

661
00:49:20,880 --> 00:49:26,480
was around Fisherman's Beach, um, which
you can see there's a number of flood

662
00:49:24,400 --> 00:49:31,040
pathways that really, um, go pretty
pretty deep into town, past Puritan Road

663
00:49:28,800 --> 00:49:35,839
and Humphrey Street. Um, so even though
it's a it's a small sliver coastline,

664
00:49:33,040 --> 00:49:40,160
it's relatively low position. Um, means
that flooding happens, it's a flood

665
00:49:37,359 --> 00:49:45,200
pathway that could infect a much broader
area. Um and in the report which um is

666
00:49:43,839 --> 00:49:50,319
currently in a draft form and I know
we've provided to um select board as

667
00:49:47,839 --> 00:49:54,640
well as the committee working on it um
we go through and identify all of the

668
00:49:52,319 --> 00:49:58,240
town assets that are at risk of flooding
um with a probability that they would

669
00:49:56,240 --> 00:50:02,480
flood in a given year. Um so just
highlighted here the fish house, the

670
00:50:00,160 --> 00:50:07,520
police station and um the Humphrey
Street pump station. Um that's three

671
00:50:04,960 --> 00:50:11,680
town owned facilities kind of right in
the center of that fisherman's beach

672
00:50:09,200 --> 00:50:16,800
flood pathway.
Uh next slide.

673
00:50:14,800 --> 00:50:21,440
Um so as part of this project we also
looked at um the compound risk of both

674
00:50:19,920 --> 00:50:26,559
coastal flooding. So that last one was
looking at a coastal event. So think um

675
00:50:24,240 --> 00:50:30,960
coming in from the coast, waves, storm
surge, things like that. Um but we also

676
00:50:28,800 --> 00:50:36,319
looked at what the risk was from extreme
rainfall um

677
00:50:33,839 --> 00:50:41,280
compound with the coastal risk. Um so
here is an example of one scenario we

678
00:50:38,559 --> 00:50:44,960
looked at. um where there's a relatively
high tide, but not one that would cause

679
00:50:43,040 --> 00:50:50,319
flooding on its own. But if that were to
occur when a large precipitation event

680
00:50:46,880 --> 00:50:55,920
happened, in this case a 25-y year um
return period event, and you can see um

681
00:50:53,200 --> 00:50:58,640
the areas at flood risk are similar. Um
what happens if there's a large storm

682
00:50:57,440 --> 00:51:03,200
event that comes in when there's high
tide? Um this whole area drains to the

683
00:51:00,960 --> 00:51:07,119
ocean. So you have reduced capacity in
your storm water system. Um, so there's

684
00:51:05,359 --> 00:51:12,400
there's flutters present just from the
combination of high tide and rainfall

685
00:51:08,800 --> 00:51:15,920
and not being to drain out. Um, so just
wanted to point out that this was also

686
00:51:13,680 --> 00:51:19,119
part of the analysis. Um, and then on
the right there, I've just showed um

687
00:51:17,440 --> 00:51:24,400
with climate change what the expected
risk is looking like to change for

688
00:51:21,359 --> 00:51:30,000
Swans. Um, you can see just the bar
chart there um how the 100red-year storm

689
00:51:27,839 --> 00:51:36,000
or the 1% probability in a given year.
you can see from now until 2070 um a

690
00:51:33,359 --> 00:51:39,920
pretty large expected increase. Um so
that's kind of the risk that we were

691
00:51:37,440 --> 00:51:42,079
looking at.
>> Um

692
00:51:40,400 --> 00:51:46,079
» can I ask please
>> a question? So I just have uh

693
00:51:44,319 --> 00:51:51,440
» a quick question because my
understanding is this report this report

694
00:51:48,720 --> 00:51:55,119
was done to update the last report that
we had. Right. Correct. So we had that

695
00:51:53,280 --> 00:51:59,200
last report now this is the update on
this one. The last report it said that

696
00:51:56,880 --> 00:52:04,640
we were most most vulnerable in the
Humphrey Street area by the police

697
00:52:01,040 --> 00:52:09,440
station and the um pumping station. And
now is this report saying that we're

698
00:52:06,400 --> 00:52:16,960
most vulnerable uh at the fish house?
>> So the fish house um

699
00:52:13,440 --> 00:52:21,200
is is in that same zone. I we we did
rank everything from vulnerability. Um I

700
00:52:19,680 --> 00:52:24,880
think the the police station and the
pump station were still the highest. Um,

701
00:52:23,040 --> 00:52:28,319
but the fish house is a low point in the
area that acts as a flood pathway. Okay.

702
00:52:26,800 --> 00:52:30,720
» Um, so it's a critical one we wanted to
address as well.

703
00:52:29,040 --> 00:52:34,480
» And then what about over here over to
the left? Because that's in dark blue,

704
00:52:33,200 --> 00:52:37,200
the one that's
>> like on Phillips Park.

705
00:52:36,000 --> 00:52:41,839
» Yeah.
>> Yep. So that area had the highest

706
00:52:40,000 --> 00:52:44,160
probability of flooding under these
future projections.

707
00:52:42,559 --> 00:52:48,000
» Right. So this is what's confusing me is
the is this a change?

708
00:52:46,160 --> 00:52:51,680
» That's King's Beach and
>> going into Lynn, I think, right?

709
00:52:49,839 --> 00:52:55,119
» Yeah. On the left says Scott, right?
Correct. Yeah, I just don't

710
00:52:53,040 --> 00:52:58,720
» that's Pearl Street.
>> Not sure what that is there. I think I'm

711
00:52:56,480 --> 00:53:04,079
just trying to get clarity on uh the
difference in the reports from the first

712
00:53:00,880 --> 00:53:08,720
report to this report. Is it is it a
different situation now or is it

713
00:53:06,000 --> 00:53:13,599
» Yeah. So, so we we relied on updated
modeling completed by Woods Hole Group.

714
00:53:10,559 --> 00:53:15,760
Um and in that left area by Kings Beach,
there was an expansion in the area.

715
00:53:15,520 --> 00:53:21,520
Okay.
>> Um that is looking like it could be

716
00:53:17,440 --> 00:53:27,760
prone to flooding in the future. Um,
so we've we've added in assets over

717
00:53:25,119 --> 00:53:31,760
there and um catalog streets at risk of
flooding and their probability in the

718
00:53:29,119 --> 00:53:35,440
report. Um, so those are new additions.
Um, that's correct.

719
00:53:33,359 --> 00:53:40,000
» Um, when we looked at flood mitigation,
we focused on fisherman's speech because

720
00:53:37,119 --> 00:53:44,240
that was the scope of the project. Um,
but

721
00:53:41,520 --> 00:53:48,559
there that's correct that those other
areas are at risk too,

722
00:53:46,559 --> 00:53:53,359
» right? I guess I guess my understanding
from the meetings were the scope of the

723
00:53:50,240 --> 00:53:58,160
project was to update our update our
vulnerability study. I didn't I I didn't

724
00:53:56,319 --> 00:54:02,000
walk away thinking it was fisherman's
beach. I thought it was the entire the

725
00:54:00,400 --> 00:54:04,480
the previous to update the previous
study.

726
00:54:02,559 --> 00:54:08,000
» Yeah. No, you're right. The the
vulnerability and the the extent of

727
00:54:06,559 --> 00:54:11,599
flooding was updated for the entire
coastline of the town,

728
00:54:09,599 --> 00:54:14,720
» but the mitigation aspect and like the
alternative analysis was focused

729
00:54:13,040 --> 00:54:18,319
specifically on Fisherman's Beach. that
was deemed to be the not by us by the

730
00:54:17,040 --> 00:54:20,720
town that was deemed to be the highest
priority segment to look at first.

731
00:54:20,319 --> 00:54:26,000
» Okay.
>> Um it actually has like quite a lot of

732
00:54:24,240 --> 00:54:29,599
assets, town owned assets, you know,
critical facilities inside that that

733
00:54:28,000 --> 00:54:32,800
zone. So, it made sense to us,
>> right? But would it would it be fair to

734
00:54:31,040 --> 00:54:36,880
say that the most critical asset that we
have would be the pump station? If we

735
00:54:35,119 --> 00:54:40,720
lose that pump station, what happens to
the town?

736
00:54:39,520 --> 00:54:43,920
» We have no way to
>> I know.

737
00:54:42,640 --> 00:54:47,839
Is it
>> Yeah, but if you look

738
00:54:45,200 --> 00:54:54,640
» I guess if you look at this Go ahead.
>> is what I've gathered from this is the

739
00:54:51,839 --> 00:54:58,720
entry points for the uh coastal flooding
are along Fisherman's Beach, Iceman's

740
00:54:56,400 --> 00:55:01,359
Beach, Wales Beach, that whole area is
the entry point for the flooding that

741
00:55:00,240 --> 00:55:06,400
would
>> through elevation change and rainfall,

742
00:55:04,559 --> 00:55:10,480
you know, sink to the darker blue areas
that are inland. Is that correct? Yeah,

743
00:55:08,000 --> 00:55:15,200
there's there's a small number of finite
entry points and then they'll basically

744
00:55:12,800 --> 00:55:19,119
flood a large inland area. So, kind of
the point of this is to try to protect

745
00:55:17,040 --> 00:55:21,440
those vulnerable points of entry, right?
So,

746
00:55:19,359 --> 00:55:25,119
» so you mitigate the pathways in order to
prevent flooding across the whole area.

747
00:55:23,680 --> 00:55:28,119
That's what say
>> y

748
00:55:29,119 --> 00:55:33,680
skeptic.
>> Well, yeah, I am a sk I'm going to tell

749
00:55:31,440 --> 00:55:38,640
you right now. My biggest worry is the
pump station. You know, I understand,

750
00:55:36,960 --> 00:55:42,800
you know, well, the whole area,
>> I'm a little familiar with the area, so

751
00:55:40,240 --> 00:55:46,319
the whole area has me concerned, but
that pump station and where are we most

752
00:55:45,440 --> 00:55:48,640
if you said where are we most
vulnerable? We're vulnerable right

753
00:55:48,079 --> 00:55:50,720
there.
>> Right.

754
00:55:49,040 --> 00:55:55,280
» Correct me if I'm wrong because if we
lose that pump station,

755
00:55:52,720 --> 00:55:57,040
» we we lost it in 2011.
>> We flooded it in 2011,

756
00:55:56,640 --> 00:56:01,040
» right?
>> Yeah.

757
00:55:58,319 --> 00:56:04,960
» Right. and the the flood pathways we're
trying to address as the alternatives

758
00:56:03,040 --> 00:56:10,880
assessment looks at cutting off flooding
to that area where the pump station is.

759
00:56:08,960 --> 00:56:14,960
» Yeah. I at the end of your presentation
you've got the modeling for the proposed

760
00:56:12,559 --> 00:56:16,400
solutions, right? That take away that
>> flooding risk.

761
00:56:15,839 --> 00:56:20,240
» Yeah.
>> Projected. Great.

762
00:56:17,839 --> 00:56:24,799
» Yeah. I think those will help.
>> Great.

763
00:56:21,839 --> 00:56:29,359
» Um let's move on to the next slide.
Um so we we assessed a large range of

764
00:56:27,760 --> 00:56:34,319
alternatives looking at cutting off
these flood pathways particularly for

765
00:56:31,119 --> 00:56:37,920
fisherman speech. Um we looked at um a
range of criteria and assessing those to

766
00:56:36,160 --> 00:56:41,920
try to come up with an objective way to
cut some and move others to the top. Um

767
00:56:40,480 --> 00:56:46,480
we worked with the committee that Dave
mentioned representing various

768
00:56:44,000 --> 00:56:52,319
committees in town in order to come up
with um what we would prioritize and we

769
00:56:50,160 --> 00:56:56,160
have the full list of criteria here.
I'll just point out that the ones that

770
00:56:54,240 --> 00:57:00,319
um were decided to be the most important
were the effectiveness of the solution

771
00:56:58,160 --> 00:57:04,960
at the capital cost and then stakeholder
acceptance. So um how it affects

772
00:57:03,040 --> 00:57:09,040
residents and the community in the area.
Um but we did assess every alternative

773
00:57:07,440 --> 00:57:14,400
that we'll be talking about against all
of these criteria uh to come up with a

774
00:57:12,079 --> 00:57:18,799
composite score and those scores were
used to rank the alternatives we'll talk

775
00:57:16,400 --> 00:57:24,400
about. Um so if we move on we can dive
into what those were that we looked at.

776
00:57:21,520 --> 00:57:30,319
Um so we broke the coastline into three
segments based on um kind of distinct

777
00:57:27,839 --> 00:57:34,720
attributes of each one. Uh so on the far
left we have the fisherman's beach

778
00:57:32,400 --> 00:57:40,079
parking lot area uh which is relatively
lowlying and potential flood pathway um

779
00:57:37,599 --> 00:57:44,160
owned by the town. Um to the right we
have the Puritan road area. Um we

780
00:57:42,720 --> 00:57:47,040
separated this one out because it's a
little distinct because it's mostly

781
00:57:45,280 --> 00:57:51,920
privately owned. It's currently
protected by private seaw walls. Um, and

782
00:57:49,680 --> 00:57:55,119
then lastly, we looked at the fish house
as its own alternative um, just because

783
00:57:54,079 --> 00:58:00,240
there are a lot of historic
considerations with it being um, a

784
00:57:56,960 --> 00:58:04,400
nationally listed uh, property um, right
in the mix of the flood zone. Um, and

785
00:58:03,040 --> 00:58:07,520
then lastly, we had a few other
alternatives we looked at that were kind

786
00:58:05,680 --> 00:58:12,319
of beyond those um, that included a
living breakwater in the harbor itself

787
00:58:10,079 --> 00:58:18,799
um, as well as other solutions like tide
gates and storm water pump stations.

788
00:58:15,760 --> 00:58:22,720
Um so if we move to the next slide. Um
after our initial analysis using the

789
00:58:21,119 --> 00:58:28,160
criteria we discussed we did a high
level analysis and we we cut some right

790
00:58:25,680 --> 00:58:32,400
off the bat. Um so these included
elevating Humphrey Street and Puritan

791
00:58:30,559 --> 00:58:36,240
Road. Uh we found that these just
weren't feasible because of the

792
00:58:33,920 --> 00:58:41,920
elevation you would need to get to um
connecting to driveways. It it just

793
00:58:37,920 --> 00:58:47,119
wasn't really a possibility. Um and we
eliminated the living breakwater just

794
00:58:43,920 --> 00:58:52,160
due to high costs. Um and it it wasn't
the most effective solution to provide

795
00:58:49,359 --> 00:58:58,240
flood protection for the coastline. Um
so what that left us with um we looked

796
00:58:55,119 --> 00:59:03,599
at within the parking lot area um
elevating the parking lot itself um or

797
00:59:01,440 --> 00:59:07,040
doing strategic retreat. So removing the
parking lot and replacing it with

798
00:59:04,960 --> 00:59:11,119
something more like a dune, a a
naturebased solution, something that

799
00:59:08,400 --> 00:59:15,760
could protect behind it. Um along
Puritin Road, we looked at the

800
00:59:13,280 --> 00:59:20,559
possibility of augmenting or raising the
existing seaw walls that are already

801
00:59:17,359 --> 00:59:25,040
there to provide a cohesive barrier to
flooding. Um and we also looked at

802
00:59:22,960 --> 00:59:29,920
building up the beach in front of the
barriers and um again making a dune. So

803
00:59:27,680 --> 00:59:33,520
a more nature-based solution. And then
lastly, at the fish house, we looked at

804
00:59:31,520 --> 00:59:39,359
flood proofing the fish house, raising
it, relocating it, um or fully replacing

805
00:59:37,760 --> 00:59:43,599
it. Um and we'll get more into that
later. Um and for all of these, we are

806
00:59:41,680 --> 00:59:48,720
looking at a design flood elevation of
13 ft. Um so that's 13 ft above sea

807
00:59:46,480 --> 00:59:53,280
level. Um for reference, the ground
elevation there is at about 10 ft. Um so

808
00:59:51,440 --> 00:59:57,040
this is about think right at the fish
house, just everything would be 3 ft

809
00:59:54,880 --> 01:00:01,040
above the existing ground level. Um
that's kind of what you need to protect

810
00:59:58,480 --> 01:00:04,799
too to make sure um that these storms we
were looking at wouldn't wouldn't flood

811
01:00:02,880 --> 01:00:08,960
beyond the coastline.
>> What's the reason to design to 13 ft? Is

812
01:00:07,040 --> 01:00:12,640
there a statutory or is that best
practice or what's

813
01:00:10,000 --> 01:00:18,480
» So we we used um the resilient mass
action team's guidance which is from um

814
01:00:15,040 --> 01:00:22,640
EA um and their recommendation for this
type of flooding was to look at the the

815
01:00:20,319 --> 01:00:27,599
2050.2
probability storm event. Um so 0.2% 2%

816
01:00:25,680 --> 01:00:33,119
chance it happens in the end of the year
in 2050 with sea level rise. So a fairly

817
01:00:31,520 --> 01:00:36,000
conservative estimate.
>> Okay.

818
01:00:33,359 --> 01:00:39,280
» Um so that projected elevation the peak
one for the coastline that was 13 ft.

819
01:00:38,079 --> 01:00:43,440
» Okay. Thanks.
>> You said the current um elevation of the

820
01:00:42,319 --> 01:00:47,200
parking lot is what?
>> Uh 10 ft.

821
01:00:44,720 --> 01:00:50,480
» Okay. So if there is there is a
barricade around the parking lot, right?

822
01:00:49,520 --> 01:00:54,160
There's jersey barriers.
>> Jersey barriers.

823
01:00:51,520 --> 01:00:57,440
» That's not effective enough. You have to
like I mean it's not a barrier but it's

824
01:00:56,480 --> 01:01:00,960
barriering.
>> Yeah. So so we one of the options was

825
01:00:59,599 --> 01:01:04,480
looking at replacing it with a more
permanent seaw wall. Okay.

826
01:01:02,640 --> 01:01:07,599
» Um and it has to be built to be able to
withstand wave action. So

827
01:01:06,400 --> 01:01:08,480
» need something behind it.
>> Yeah.

828
01:01:07,920 --> 01:01:11,599
» Got it.
>> When we talk about going back to the 13t

829
01:01:10,400 --> 01:01:16,160
question when you're talking about
storms and wave driven storms you can

830
01:01:13,200 --> 01:01:20,160
get significantly above that. What is is
for some, you know, I is 13 ft really

831
01:01:18,160 --> 01:01:26,799
enough or is that just the mean sea
level rise that you're worried about as

832
01:01:22,640 --> 01:01:31,680
opposed to impact of windblown storms?
>> So, hurricanes,

833
01:01:28,160 --> 01:01:34,559
» those are No, it's looking at the um and
maybe Brandon can speak to this one

834
01:01:33,119 --> 01:01:38,319
because he did work, but
>> hi. Um yeah, thanks. Um yeah, my name is

835
01:01:36,960 --> 01:01:41,280
Brandon Raymond. I'm a coastal engineer
with Woods Hole Group. Thank you very

836
01:01:39,760 --> 01:01:45,359
much for having me and thank you Client
Felder for including us on this

837
01:01:42,880 --> 01:01:49,119
important project. Um to answer your
question about the 13 ft what that

838
01:01:47,280 --> 01:01:54,240
represents is what we call still water
elevation. So this is the combination of

839
01:01:51,680 --> 01:01:59,280
tides and storm surge wind driven storm
surge. Uh what it does not include is

840
01:01:56,640 --> 01:02:02,240
the influence of wave runup up onto a
beach or something that might be over

841
01:02:00,640 --> 01:02:06,000
topping a seaw wall or something like
that which is tends to be something that

842
01:02:04,559 --> 01:02:09,040
handle is either if you're not
protecting against it you're usually

843
01:02:07,359 --> 01:02:15,280
accounting for it in drainage of catch
basations and things like that but

844
01:02:11,040 --> 01:02:18,160
ultimately that's uh the 2050.0 zero no
2%

845
01:02:16,720 --> 01:02:24,319
» basically the five what we call the
500year event is so it's by 2050 so

846
01:02:22,400 --> 01:02:27,040
that's including sea level rise and then
of course the statistical analysis to

847
01:02:26,480 --> 01:02:30,720
get us that
>> so the term still water is a little

848
01:02:28,559 --> 01:02:34,000
counter u intuitive
>> still water and the yeah I guess you're

849
01:02:32,640 --> 01:02:36,319
right yes to it
>> yeah oh that's why I was asking the

850
01:02:35,359 --> 01:02:40,319
question because I was a little confused
when I saw that I when I saw the word

851
01:02:38,400 --> 01:02:44,720
still water I thought it was
>> what it really means is so it's the so

852
01:02:42,559 --> 01:02:48,799
it's the influence of tides wind driven
storm surge and then also um what we

853
01:02:46,640 --> 01:02:52,400
call wave setup. So anytime waves are
breaking at the shoreline, that

854
01:02:50,559 --> 01:02:55,280
turbulence actually raises up the water
level just to hair. And so when you add

855
01:02:54,000 --> 01:03:01,480
all that up together, you get a still
water elevation at the shoreline. Okay,

856
01:02:57,920 --> 01:03:01,480
great. Thank you.

857
01:03:02,720 --> 01:03:09,680
» Thanks, Brandon.
Um

858
01:03:07,760 --> 01:03:15,599
any more questions on this one before we
dive into these areas?

859
01:03:13,119 --> 01:03:20,000
I just I I did want to go back just uh
back to the page where you had the

860
01:03:17,599 --> 01:03:25,119
analysis piece of this where where did
the waiting come from?

861
01:03:21,920 --> 01:03:28,880
» Um we did a workshop with um the
representatives from the town on the

862
01:03:26,559 --> 01:03:33,039
committee that Dave mentioned um where
we provided that these were the criteria

863
01:03:31,039 --> 01:03:35,760
that we were planning to look at um and
we worked with them to develop if we

864
01:03:34,400 --> 01:03:39,039
were missing any and then they went
through and waited um their priority for

865
01:03:38,079 --> 01:03:42,240
those.
>> Okay.

866
01:03:39,359 --> 01:03:46,760
» So none of this was was our thoughts. It
was um reflects what the town thinks.

867
01:03:48,240 --> 01:03:55,039
» Does this match plus or minus what you
see other communities doing in terms of

868
01:03:52,319 --> 01:03:57,839
waiting like efficacy, social
acceptance, and capital cost? Are those

869
01:03:56,480 --> 01:04:01,119
what most communities kind of rate
highest?

870
01:03:58,640 --> 01:04:05,440
» Uh definitely. Yeah. I And I mean
effectiveness, efficacy is we want a

871
01:04:04,160 --> 01:04:06,799
solution that's going to be effective.
So

872
01:04:05,760 --> 01:04:10,720
» 100%.
>> Definitely agreed that that should be

873
01:04:08,000 --> 01:04:14,480
the top one.
>> Thanks.

874
01:04:12,720 --> 01:04:19,119
Um, I think we can move on to the next
slide.

875
01:04:16,640 --> 01:04:23,280
» Um, so the first area is the Humphrey
Street and Fish House parking lot. I

876
01:04:20,880 --> 01:04:26,160
think John was going to take this one.
Um,

877
01:04:24,480 --> 01:04:28,640
» yes. Can you guys hear me now?
>> We can. We can.

878
01:04:28,079 --> 01:04:30,400
» Thank you, John.
>> All right. We're good. All right.

879
01:04:29,760 --> 01:04:34,319
» Welcome, John.
>> Well, thank you everyone. Sorry for the

880
01:04:32,400 --> 01:04:37,520
technical diff and not being able to be
there. But John Mallister, Mallister

881
01:04:35,839 --> 01:04:43,359
Marine Engineering, again worked with
the team on this uh specifically looking

882
01:04:39,520 --> 01:04:47,520
at the parking lot here. Um what we
looked at once we got into this analysis

883
01:04:45,119 --> 01:04:53,200
really four separate options as you can
see on the slide. Um one and three kind

884
01:04:50,240 --> 01:04:57,280
of go together where it is um
essentially augmenting what's there for

885
01:04:55,280 --> 01:05:01,839
existing infrastructure
by a raising of permanent seaw wall

886
01:04:59,280 --> 01:05:07,359
that's designed be probably reinforced
concrete but it's designed to resist uh

887
01:05:04,720 --> 01:05:14,079
wave action and hydrostatic pressures
that would be forced from additional um

888
01:05:10,079 --> 01:05:18,400
water rising. Um, on the option one, you
would have that along the front side of

889
01:05:17,039 --> 01:05:22,400
the beach or on the south side of the
parking lot, if you will. And because we

890
01:05:20,960 --> 01:05:27,760
want to maintain access, you kind of
have to design for the norm and for the

891
01:05:24,160 --> 01:05:34,160
storm, you would have to augment uh the
three openings for the boat ramp, the

892
01:05:31,119 --> 01:05:38,240
stairs down, and the um the other access
all the way to the west. They have to

893
01:05:36,079 --> 01:05:46,160
augment that seaw wall with deployable
barrier. Um, important to note the the

894
01:05:44,000 --> 01:05:50,880
uh parking lot isn't perfectly flat
elevation. It does range its lowest in

895
01:05:49,200 --> 01:05:55,680
the east by the fish house where it's
about 9.8 and it actually rises up to

896
01:05:53,680 --> 01:06:00,240
about 11.2
uh all the way to the west and at Chesan

897
01:05:57,520 --> 01:06:03,359
Park which is over kind of to the the
park just to the west of the facility is

898
01:06:01,599 --> 01:06:06,400
actually above elevation 13. So we don't
have to do any interventions there. It's

899
01:06:04,640 --> 01:06:11,119
actually a natural barrier that we can
build off of and connect into that. Um,

900
01:06:09,359 --> 01:06:15,920
so I'm going to skip to option three.
Uh, it's a similar strategy to what

901
01:06:13,520 --> 01:06:20,319
option one was. Uh, except it'd be on
the back side or the north side of the

902
01:06:17,520 --> 01:06:24,559
parking lot. And, um, what's attractive
about that is there's already a little

903
01:06:22,079 --> 01:06:29,039
curving little wall there. It just have
to be brought up about uh, 2 to 3 ft

904
01:06:27,200 --> 01:06:32,079
higher. It could be made nice. You
could, you know, it would have to be

905
01:06:30,480 --> 01:06:35,039
reinforced concrete again to withstand
the hydrostatic pressures, but you could

906
01:06:33,520 --> 01:06:39,440
do some stamped stones on it, make it
look aesthetically pleasing. And then

907
01:06:37,039 --> 01:06:44,480
you only have two um two areas you have
to close off on just the entrance into

908
01:06:41,680 --> 01:06:48,480
the into the parking lot and the exit.
Um those areas would just need to be

909
01:06:46,559 --> 01:06:52,720
deployed in advance of a storm because
usually these things are forecast and

910
01:06:50,160 --> 01:06:56,400
you have some time. So Gino and his crew
would have to get out there and deploy

911
01:06:53,920 --> 01:07:01,440
these barriers to seal it off and then
once the storm is passed and was

912
01:06:58,400 --> 01:07:05,760
receded, you can take that down and
stuff can go back to their normal

913
01:07:02,799 --> 01:07:11,200
operation. Uh then the other two options
we looked at were on two uh options two

914
01:07:08,960 --> 01:07:16,640
and four and those both involved raising
the grades within the parking lot

915
01:07:12,559 --> 01:07:20,880
itself. So number two um is raising it
and keeping it as a parking structure, a

916
01:07:18,880 --> 01:07:24,160
parking area I should say, but bring it
up to elevation 13. Now, in order to do

917
01:07:22,640 --> 01:07:28,640
that with grading, you kind of have to
peek it in the middle, uh just right

918
01:07:26,880 --> 01:07:32,960
down the center of the parking lot up to
elevation 13, grade it back down to

919
01:07:30,720 --> 01:07:38,960
Humphrey Street, and grade it back down
on the other side to um to the beach.

920
01:07:36,640 --> 01:07:43,680
difficulty for that is for the the boat
launch. Uh if you're coming up off of

921
01:07:41,359 --> 01:07:50,160
Humphrey Street at around 9 and a half
10 up to 13 and then back down to launch

922
01:07:47,039 --> 01:07:53,599
your boat, it's
for, you know, for a high clearance

923
01:07:52,319 --> 01:07:56,960
vehicle, it's not an issue, but when
you're trolling with a trailer, you have

924
01:07:55,039 --> 01:07:59,839
that pinch point on the trailer, it
could it could cause some issues,

925
01:07:58,240 --> 01:08:04,079
especially because you have to come in
and back down to launch the boats. So,

926
01:08:02,400 --> 01:08:11,760
there is some challenges associated with
that. Um, and the other issue is you're

927
01:08:08,400 --> 01:08:14,400
relying on the fish house to to provide
some of that the connection to the fish

928
01:08:13,119 --> 01:08:19,359
house, I'm sorry, to provide some of
that uh continuous wall of the elevation

929
01:08:17,199 --> 01:08:23,679
13. So, by going up to elevation 13 in
the middle, you essentially be losing a

930
01:08:21,839 --> 01:08:28,080
couple of blockers most likely or some
other um some other impact to the fish

931
01:08:26,400 --> 01:08:31,199
house. But again, I think uh Seth and
his team going to talk about that a

932
01:08:29,199 --> 01:08:35,600
little further on, but this just one one
option to point out. And then option

933
01:08:33,440 --> 01:08:39,759
four that we looked at is a similar
thing that instead of going with a

934
01:08:36,880 --> 01:08:43,440
parking lot be removing the whole
infrastructure of parking and going with

935
01:08:41,520 --> 01:08:48,480
a a naturebased solution which would be
doom. So you could take that out you

936
01:08:45,440 --> 01:08:54,400
would build it up with sand dredge out
some sand place on the on the um on the

937
01:08:52,080 --> 01:08:59,759
shore seed it you'd have a more natural
reinforced um area. it would be set

938
01:08:58,319 --> 01:09:04,799
through freezing. We still have the
issue of uh the connection over at the

939
01:09:02,640 --> 01:09:07,120
fish house and there's a lot of
maintenance associated with that

940
01:09:06,000 --> 01:09:13,159
especially early on when you're trying
to get it established. Uh if we can go

941
01:09:09,440 --> 01:09:13,159
to the next slide please.

942
01:09:13,279 --> 01:09:20,960
So um as as we mentioned we kind of
looked at the different impacts what

943
01:09:17,199 --> 01:09:25,440
factors would in uh would
give us the best desired outcome for

944
01:09:22,799 --> 01:09:30,319
what we're looking at. uh no no option
is cheap, no option is is bulletproof.

945
01:09:29,120 --> 01:09:34,560
You know, there's challenges, there's
drawbacks, and there's positives for

946
01:09:31,679 --> 01:09:39,520
each one. Uh but what we ended up going
with um based on these cost estimates,

947
01:09:37,520 --> 01:09:44,640
you know, in today's dollars, obviously
things are fairly valuable lately and

948
01:09:42,640 --> 01:09:49,440
you know, planning forward, you you have
to put in a goody factor on any

949
01:09:47,279 --> 01:09:53,359
budgetary figures, but in today's
dollars, that's what we're looking at.

950
01:09:50,719 --> 01:09:56,960
But what we think is the most effective
is actually unfortunately the most

951
01:09:55,120 --> 01:10:01,360
expensive, which would be that flood
barrier along the um along the back edge

952
01:09:59,920 --> 01:10:07,920
along Humphrey Street on the north side
of the parking lot. Uh because it has

953
01:10:04,719 --> 01:10:13,199
minimal impact on circulation.
Uh, in fact, use it won't really affect

954
01:10:11,679 --> 01:10:16,480
use in the parking area because it's
only about a two and a half, three foot

955
01:10:14,640 --> 01:10:20,960
wall
and uh it doesn't affect activities and

956
01:10:19,440 --> 01:10:26,239
operation of the fish house because it
just ties in naturally with it. So

957
01:10:23,120 --> 01:10:29,360
that's uh what we're uh looking for. So
if we go to the next one, it's actually

958
01:10:27,280 --> 01:10:35,120
a better visualization of it. The next
slide. Yeah. So this blue line here you

959
01:10:32,640 --> 01:10:41,679
could see would be that that solid wall
that would be put in um between the the

960
01:10:38,640 --> 01:10:47,520
the sidewalk and the parking area. Raise
up to elevation 13 be 2 to 3 ft high.

961
01:10:45,040 --> 01:10:51,360
You'd obvious have to uh reinforce the
foundation be a little bit of excavation

962
01:10:48,960 --> 01:10:56,320
work and then those red area lines which
would be the areas of deployable

963
01:10:53,120 --> 01:10:59,280
barriers which would be tied in um in
advance of a storm when they're

964
01:10:57,360 --> 01:11:03,760
announced. So, you would lose, you know,
a day before most likely each storm,

965
01:11:00,960 --> 01:11:07,360
you'd lose access to the beach. Uh, but
no one's really going there because

966
01:11:05,199 --> 01:11:11,440
these storm events are, you know, public
safety issues. So, you want to t block

967
01:11:10,000 --> 01:11:15,360
that off anyways, but you'd lose those
two access points and then they' be

968
01:11:13,840 --> 01:11:18,640
taken down and you could go back to
normal operations, but the only

969
01:11:16,960 --> 01:11:23,600
permanent infrastructure would be that
that blue line.

970
01:11:20,800 --> 01:11:26,880
» Um, so these have Yeah,
>> just a quick question. And these

971
01:11:24,719 --> 01:11:30,400
deployable flood barriers are like what
you would see like at the mouth of

972
01:11:28,400 --> 01:11:35,120
Winthrop or something. They're like big
heavy metal

973
01:11:32,560 --> 01:11:38,400
» like gates that come out. Is that what
we're talking about?

974
01:11:35,840 --> 01:11:42,320
» There there's multiple options. Okay.
>> So there are some that are that that

975
01:11:40,320 --> 01:11:45,679
fold up. There are some that are just
actually sandbags almost like they have

976
01:11:44,239 --> 01:11:48,239
like reinforced you just fill them up
with sand.

977
01:11:46,719 --> 01:11:52,080
» Um
uh there's multiple options that you

978
01:11:49,840 --> 01:11:58,000
could put at uh and review. option did
you quote cost

979
01:11:55,600 --> 01:12:01,360
» which I actually took uh we got three
quotes and we just used the the average

980
01:12:00,320 --> 01:12:04,159
cost
>> for the different

981
01:12:02,239 --> 01:12:08,000
» but what was the option technologies
>> which solution

982
01:12:04,719 --> 01:12:13,360
» which solution did you quote sorry
>> uh I so I quoted the the sandag option

983
01:12:10,800 --> 01:12:18,480
and the um I don't know how you call
them they're kind of like

984
01:12:16,080 --> 01:12:21,600
» um the ones that pop up the hydrostatic
ones that

985
01:12:19,520 --> 01:12:25,600
» they're like the base pops up like this.
If you can see me in the the water flush

986
01:12:24,239 --> 01:12:26,719
with the ground and then they pop up.
Correct.

987
01:12:26,159 --> 01:12:28,800
» Yeah.
>> Is that right?

988
01:12:28,080 --> 01:12:32,400
» Yes.
>> Yeah. That's like a That's not a

989
01:12:30,719 --> 01:12:36,320
deployable one, but it's the same idea.
They So, they they sit flat like this

990
01:12:34,719 --> 01:12:40,400
for storage. They can be stored on a
pallet and they put them out there and

991
01:12:38,000 --> 01:12:42,800
they just go they open up like this, but
Yeah. They're not like in place per

992
01:12:41,520 --> 01:12:46,800
primarily like that.
>> Yeah.

993
01:12:43,360 --> 01:12:51,520
» Okay. So when we're looking at the
choice here, right, because the one on

994
01:12:49,600 --> 01:12:55,280
Humphrey Street is several feet higher
on average,

995
01:12:52,960 --> 01:13:01,520
» right, from the lowest position of like
9 and 1/2 ft or roughly. So we talk I'm

996
01:12:58,159 --> 01:13:05,199
going go back to, you know, the original
question I had before which was the 13T

997
01:13:03,360 --> 01:13:11,760
which encounters storms, waved driven
action and so on. What is the by 2050

998
01:13:08,239 --> 01:13:19,840
and 2070 the expected
king tide sea level rise? Where are we

999
01:13:16,880 --> 01:13:24,080
in at the point of a daily king tides? I
know not every day but you know at the

1000
01:13:21,199 --> 01:13:28,000
highest of high tides where are we at a
regular

1001
01:13:26,000 --> 01:13:30,800
flooding risk issue that does not
account for storms?

1002
01:13:30,159 --> 01:13:35,040
» How high?
>> I'll defer to Brad on that do you know

1003
01:13:33,360 --> 01:13:38,320
off the top of your head?
the top of my head. No. Um, but I mean,

1004
01:13:36,960 --> 01:13:44,880
we're talking about
>> I'm second. Sorry. Uh, I mean, so we're

1005
01:13:41,760 --> 01:13:48,880
comparing what a 500year storm to a to a
high tide. So, I I don't have those

1006
01:13:47,199 --> 01:13:54,159
numbers off the top of my head, but I
imagine there's quite a difference.

1007
01:13:51,040 --> 01:14:00,480
» The reason I was asking is that one is a
response to an incoming storm or

1008
01:13:57,280 --> 01:14:05,679
something that is projected or expected.
The other scenario is something that

1009
01:14:02,880 --> 01:14:10,000
happens on a regular daily basis,
weekly, monthly basis. Something that

1010
01:14:08,400 --> 01:14:13,520
you you kind of want a permanent
structure there. So that's why I was

1011
01:14:11,679 --> 01:14:16,800
asking the difference of why wouldn't
you put it down at the beach as opposed

1012
01:14:15,280 --> 01:14:20,719
to
up higher. I mean, it kind of sets the

1013
01:14:18,800 --> 01:14:26,080
table for
all of the solutions we're looking at.

1014
01:14:23,360 --> 01:14:32,320
Mhm. Well, well, sir, I'm sorry, just
one more question uh thing about so the

1015
01:14:28,159 --> 01:14:38,719
that 2% annual exceedence probability
with a 500year storm is basically saying

1016
01:14:35,199 --> 01:14:43,120
any given year that water would be met
or exceeded point has a 2% chance of

1017
01:14:42,000 --> 01:14:47,280
occurring.
>> So really what we're talking about is

1018
01:14:45,040 --> 01:14:52,800
you know how frequently are is that
flooding going to be occurring. So the

1019
01:14:49,760 --> 01:14:57,040
the king tide if you will is going to be
obviously almost greater than it's a

1020
01:14:54,880 --> 01:15:01,040
it's a 100% certainty that it's going to
occur any given year. So that's that's

1021
01:14:59,440 --> 01:15:05,440
the kind of a measure of the difference
between elevations.

1022
01:15:02,480 --> 01:15:11,280
» Wait to say it another way then we are
planning for 98

1023
01:15:08,640 --> 01:15:19,920
99.8%
of water with 2% is what you're like we

1024
01:15:16,480 --> 01:15:23,760
are like 99.8 8% of the time we'll be
fine and it's only the 2% that we are

1025
01:15:22,320 --> 01:15:25,360
planning for right now.
>> Correct.

1026
01:15:24,480 --> 01:15:29,920
» Cuz I like
>> elevation 13 though. So

1027
01:15:28,719 --> 01:15:34,880
» I mean there's
>> I think to Wayne's point um we did check

1028
01:15:33,199 --> 01:15:39,760
just the normal tide range that's
expected with sea level rise and there

1029
01:15:36,560 --> 01:15:42,719
is no sunny day flooding expected. Um
>> let let me put this at

1030
01:15:41,120 --> 01:15:45,040
» sunny day flooding was the word I was I
was trying to think of. Yes, but that

1031
01:15:43,840 --> 01:15:48,800
was that was why I was asking the
question. Sunday flooding. John, you are

1032
01:15:46,800 --> 01:15:53,440
very well aware and familiar with our
harbor and kind of the tide cycle. So to

1033
01:15:51,920 --> 01:15:57,840
Wayne's point,
>> we get a bad flood, we get a bad

1034
01:15:55,679 --> 01:16:03,199
southwesterly. I know you've seen the
photos of kind of what happens.

1035
01:15:59,920 --> 01:16:08,960
» Does this projected solution without
those deployable flood barriers put in

1036
01:16:05,600 --> 01:16:13,600
place, but the fixed structural ones
help remedy

1037
01:16:10,800 --> 01:16:16,320
that damage?
So you have to look at as a total

1038
01:16:15,120 --> 01:16:20,880
solution. I think that's we're going to
get to later. It's what if there's one

1039
01:16:18,560 --> 01:16:23,760
weak point, if there's one area where
water can get in because water's going

1040
01:16:22,000 --> 01:16:30,640
to find its easiest path. So if there's
one area in this whole connected part

1041
01:16:27,440 --> 01:16:33,920
that is lower, uh, whatever you do, it's
not going to stop it. So you have to

1042
01:16:31,840 --> 01:16:37,360
kind of have a a whole line of defense.
And you go from elevation 13 to

1043
01:16:35,520 --> 01:16:41,360
elevation 13. And I think they'll show
that a little bit later on of of why

1044
01:16:39,600 --> 01:16:45,120
there are several pathways in that you
have to address each and every pathway

1045
01:16:42,640 --> 01:16:49,440
because even if you just hit these ones
here, uh it can go around and get it and

1046
01:16:48,000 --> 01:16:54,000
get in there very easily and you'll
still have it on the back end. It'll

1047
01:16:50,560 --> 01:16:57,360
come and float around from the back end.
>> Okay,

1048
01:16:54,400 --> 01:17:01,840
» go back one slide.
>> All right, so

1049
01:16:59,280 --> 01:17:09,920
the recommended solution is in red,
right? And the the first solution

1050
01:17:06,320 --> 01:17:16,400
basically is similar, right, in terms of
benefits and drawbacks, challenges, and

1051
01:17:12,320 --> 01:17:21,000
it's about $100,000 cheaper. So why why
this solution? Why is this a better

1052
01:17:18,000 --> 01:17:21,000
option?

1053
01:17:21,360 --> 01:17:29,280
» Because uh that one has a lot more of a
maintenance burden on it, the front edge

1054
01:17:26,000 --> 01:17:34,000
one. So, it's going to be a lot more
work to to um to get them installed

1055
01:17:32,320 --> 01:17:37,040
because if you're working on the back
end, it's easier to picture you're

1056
01:17:35,840 --> 01:17:40,560
putting in these deployable barriers
because you have to have like a seal

1057
01:17:38,159 --> 01:17:42,880
along the bottom. It's easier to seal on
asphalt than it is on a beach.

1058
01:17:42,560 --> 01:17:46,960
» Okay.
>> So, we have to make those and it it

1059
01:17:45,280 --> 01:17:51,920
» the one that says raise seaw wall along
beach edge doesn't list anything in

1060
01:17:49,440 --> 01:17:55,760
drawback challenge in terms of on andm
or anything like that. So that's why I'm

1061
01:17:53,440 --> 01:18:00,800
asking it has the exact same drawbacks
and challenges and benefits as the

1062
01:17:58,400 --> 01:18:05,360
highest scoring solution. Do you see
what I'm saying?

1063
01:18:03,760 --> 01:18:10,080
» So I'm just trying to find out there's a
$100,000 difference there. Why why that

1064
01:18:08,000 --> 01:18:12,000
more expensive solution is the
recommended. Do you know do you want to

1065
01:18:11,679 --> 01:18:16,000
yeah
>> getting at see my point there?

1066
01:18:14,800 --> 01:18:18,719
» I think that comes out
>> because your benefits and your drawback

1067
01:18:17,440 --> 01:18:22,000
are the exact same, right?
>> The only thing you have different is

1068
01:18:19,840 --> 01:18:25,280
estimated cost and alternative. It's
just not detailed enough.

1069
01:18:23,280 --> 01:18:28,480
» Yeah, it's just maybe some upkeep is
also the uh drawback and challenge

1070
01:18:27,199 --> 01:18:31,520
should be listed there,
>> right? The

1071
01:18:29,440 --> 01:18:34,239
» Yeah, but like the life cycle cost on it
would be higher

1072
01:18:32,320 --> 01:18:37,120
» except for $100,000 different.
>> John, is it fair to say that the reason

1073
01:18:35,600 --> 01:18:42,000
why that wasn't pursued is because the
ongoing maintenance of that requires

1074
01:18:39,679 --> 01:18:48,640
more work and more capital expense to
maintain that for the sameish benefit?

1075
01:18:46,239 --> 01:18:52,239
» Absolutely. Well, cuz if if you guys can
if you look at the winter profile of the

1076
01:18:50,640 --> 01:18:57,920
beach versus the summer profile, you
notice that there's a lot more of the

1077
01:18:53,360 --> 01:19:01,920
beach exposed um during the low season
when the sand washes out. So, if you

1078
01:19:00,239 --> 01:19:05,600
have a storm coming when that sand's out
there, you have to adapt how you're how

1079
01:19:03,920 --> 01:19:08,800
you're tying in those three points. So,
it's a little bit more of a challenge to

1080
01:19:07,440 --> 01:19:12,400
deploy and maintain it. So, that's
absolutely right that that there is a

1081
01:19:10,320 --> 01:19:16,400
longer term life cycle cost for it. I
have to assume there's a similar life

1082
01:19:14,080 --> 01:19:19,360
cycle cost to the dune replacement
because like there's a lot of upkeep

1083
01:19:17,679 --> 01:19:22,239
related to well first we have to create
the dune and then we have to make sure

1084
01:19:20,960 --> 01:19:27,239
there's enough sand for it to be
effective right so there's an upkeep

1085
01:19:24,239 --> 01:19:27,239
involved

1086
01:19:27,760 --> 01:19:33,280
» yes but they are natural there's like a
the first maybe 10 years they're going

1087
01:19:31,679 --> 01:19:34,960
to be the most intensive but once the
dune is established

1088
01:19:34,640 --> 01:19:37,840
» okay
>> outside of a major storm event these

1089
01:19:36,560 --> 01:19:40,840
dunes are pretty resilient
>> okay

1090
01:19:41,440 --> 01:19:48,000
So the as as you're showing this
relative to the fish house which is a

1091
01:19:45,840 --> 01:19:52,960
separate part of the presentation right
by stopping the flooding at the beach

1092
01:19:50,000 --> 01:19:57,360
side though don't you do a better job of
protect pro protecting the rest of the

1093
01:19:54,719 --> 01:20:01,760
fish house and thereby I don't know
maybe not having to

1094
01:19:59,840 --> 01:20:06,320
you know the cost offset of having to
protect the fish house relative to doing

1095
01:20:03,360 --> 01:20:10,960
it just up front towards the water. Does
that make sense? If I could draw it out

1096
01:20:08,000 --> 01:20:14,400
I do that. I actually think if we don't
do this in concert with a fish house

1097
01:20:12,640 --> 01:20:16,400
option that you're just locking the fish
house in the water,

1098
01:20:16,000 --> 01:20:19,679
» right?
>> That's why I'm

1099
01:20:17,280 --> 01:20:22,480
» so we need to have a fish house option
that either elevates it, moves it, fix,

1100
01:20:22,159 --> 01:20:26,239
you know.
>> Well, I'm saying if if you had it if you

1101
01:20:24,480 --> 01:20:30,080
had a if you had the barrier closer to
the water, you can put a contiguous line

1102
01:20:28,719 --> 01:20:34,640
around the fish house as opposed to
pushing it back then trying to draw a

1103
01:20:32,159 --> 01:20:40,480
wall around the fish house coming down
and then moving along the water towards

1104
01:20:36,960 --> 01:20:43,199
the rest of the beach.
Yeah, I see your point. Let's maybe we

1105
01:20:42,480 --> 01:20:46,320
can move on.
>> Let's see what the other

1106
01:20:44,880 --> 01:20:49,760
» Yeah, the other solutions
>> and then I is it fair to say that

1107
01:20:47,920 --> 01:20:53,280
there's more detail in the final written
report

1108
01:20:50,719 --> 01:20:56,400
» that answer some of the questions final
decisions between different

1109
01:20:55,040 --> 01:21:00,159
» many volumes of pages.
>> We have full um descriptions for each of

1110
01:20:58,400 --> 01:21:01,600
those like 12 criteria for each
alternative. Um

1111
01:21:01,280 --> 01:21:05,360
» Okay.
>> Sorry, we were just summarizing for all.

1112
01:21:03,840 --> 01:21:07,120
» No, no, I'll perfect.
>> Do you want me to go to the next slide?

1113
01:21:06,719 --> 01:21:11,679
» Yes.
>> Yes. Can we actually skip to the C to

1114
01:21:09,679 --> 01:21:14,880
the fish house solution since we were
just talking about the fish house and

1115
01:21:13,040 --> 01:21:18,480
then we'll go back to Purton Road if
that's okay.

1116
01:21:15,679 --> 01:21:23,120
» Yeah, definitely.
>> So for the fish house we looked at four

1117
01:21:20,800 --> 01:21:28,320
broad options. Um so flood proofing the
existing structure. Um so this could be

1118
01:21:25,920 --> 01:21:32,880
done in a couple ways. Uh wet flood
proofing is where you allow flow to go

1119
01:21:31,360 --> 01:21:38,320
into the structure itself. So you have
vents in the structure and this allows

1120
01:21:35,440 --> 01:21:42,000
the water level to equalize. Um so
remove some of the hydrostatic pressure.

1121
01:21:40,320 --> 01:21:46,400
This is actually what FEMA recommends
for the the zone that the fish house is

1122
01:21:44,159 --> 01:21:50,400
located in. Um we had a lot of concerns
because it's a historic structure.

1123
01:21:48,320 --> 01:21:54,320
Having it be wet constantly would be
probably not good, but it is one we

1124
01:21:51,920 --> 01:21:58,639
looked at. Um dry flood proofing is
probably more of what you're thinking.

1125
01:21:55,600 --> 01:22:03,120
So making the structure itself um fully
impermeable. And then we also looked at

1126
01:22:00,800 --> 01:22:06,800
just having temporary barriers
surrounding the whole structure. So

1127
01:22:04,400 --> 01:22:10,800
similar to what John was talking about
and for our analysis we assumed they'd

1128
01:22:08,719 --> 01:22:15,280
be drop in flood planks. So where you
have posts and you kind of drop and

1129
01:22:12,320 --> 01:22:21,280
hammer in um wide steel plates ahead of
a storm. Um we looked at relocating the

1130
01:22:18,719 --> 01:22:26,800
fish house. Um so preserving the
structure itself, moving it elsewhere.

1131
01:22:23,920 --> 01:22:31,520
Um and replacing the structure with
either a dune or just a barrier. um but

1132
01:22:29,440 --> 01:22:35,440
reusing the space for flood protection.
Uh we looked at replacing the fish

1133
01:22:33,120 --> 01:22:38,719
house. Um and then we also looked at
elevating the fish house or raising it

1134
01:22:37,040 --> 01:22:44,159
three feet so it was above that flood
elevation.

1135
01:22:40,560 --> 01:22:49,360
Um so next slide. Oh, sorry if you could
go back. Um and we just have a mockup

1136
01:22:46,560 --> 01:22:54,159
here. Um all of these options would have
to tie into the section that John was

1137
01:22:51,199 --> 01:22:58,719
talking about, right? Um so for the
recommended approach of having a barrier

1138
01:22:56,159 --> 01:23:02,400
along Humphrey Street, um you can see
that we'd have to cover where the red

1139
01:23:00,800 --> 01:23:05,520
hatched
>> um section is. That would be where

1140
01:23:04,080 --> 01:23:10,679
there'd be a deployable barrier and it
would tie into whatever solution was

1141
01:23:07,040 --> 01:23:10,679
done at the fish house.

1142
01:23:11,199 --> 01:23:21,040
» Um so we have a large table here, but
this is the three iterations of flood

1143
01:23:18,239 --> 01:23:26,239
proofing that we just talked through. um
relocating the fish house, replacing and

1144
01:23:22,800 --> 01:23:31,600
elevating it. Um there were a number of
aspects that we looked at with this one.

1145
01:23:28,080 --> 01:23:35,440
Um because it's a working fish house, we
we were thinking about how it would

1146
01:23:33,360 --> 01:23:39,840
affect commercial fishermen because the
storage lockers along the first floor.

1147
01:23:37,679 --> 01:23:42,800
Um we thought about the National
Historic Register listing because some

1148
01:23:41,440 --> 01:23:48,719
of these would cause you to lose that
status. Um which I know is important to

1149
01:23:45,120 --> 01:23:53,920
some. um we have to think about
uh permitting of it because it is within

1150
01:23:50,800 --> 01:23:57,520
a high velocity zone under FEMA. So this
is I know we're kind of focusing in a

1151
01:23:56,000 --> 01:24:02,320
small area, but this is a much more
complicated one just because of the

1152
01:23:59,360 --> 01:24:06,800
nature of the building. Um so try to run
through this fast, but wet flood

1153
01:24:04,159 --> 01:24:11,840
proofing. Um
we really ended up not being in favor of

1154
01:24:09,520 --> 01:24:15,199
this one just because um the first floor
of the building is all storage lockers

1155
01:24:13,440 --> 01:24:19,120
for fishermen. And then in order to do
this one, they'd be having to clear out

1156
01:24:17,040 --> 01:24:22,639
their space ahead of a storm. Um there
could be damage to the structure over

1157
01:24:20,480 --> 01:24:26,800
time, even if the structure is not being
washed away just because of wetting and

1158
01:24:24,639 --> 01:24:29,679
then drying. Um so even though it's a
FEMA recommended one, we don't think

1159
01:24:28,239 --> 01:24:35,040
it's appropriate for this historic
structure. Um dry flood proofing is

1160
01:24:32,480 --> 01:24:38,800
tricky just in the number of openings
there are to the existing structure. Um,

1161
01:24:37,280 --> 01:24:42,639
and because the structure is historic,
it's probably not designed to withstand

1162
01:24:40,960 --> 01:24:48,800
the wave action that we'd expect to see
that close to the coast. Um, so also not

1163
01:24:46,320 --> 01:24:54,960
a recommended approach. Um, temporary
flood proofing. Um, this is one that we

1164
01:24:51,920 --> 01:24:58,719
think could work for the area. Um, this
would be advantageous in that it's

1165
01:24:56,800 --> 01:25:03,199
relatively cheap. You just have to buy
these temporary barriers.

1166
01:25:01,199 --> 01:25:08,639
um they could be set up in advance of
storms um around the structure as long

1167
01:25:06,880 --> 01:25:14,480
as there's a foundation built for them
to connect to. Um it also wouldn't

1168
01:25:12,159 --> 01:25:18,800
affect the historic designation and are
relatively quick to implement. Um

1169
01:25:16,719 --> 01:25:22,560
disadvantages is you you'd have to be
prepared. You'd have to go out ahead of

1170
01:25:20,080 --> 01:25:25,520
a storm to do this. Um
>> and they're temporary because they're

1171
01:25:23,840 --> 01:25:29,120
removable, not because they only have
one usage.

1172
01:25:26,639 --> 01:25:37,360
» Correct. Yep. You would store them Yep.
somewhere in between storm events.

1173
01:25:32,960 --> 01:25:40,880
Um, relocating the fish house. Um, this
would obviously eliminate all concerns

1174
01:25:38,960 --> 01:25:44,400
for the house itself. You'd retain the
historic structure. Um, however, you

1175
01:25:42,719 --> 01:25:49,199
would lose a national historic register
listing because that listing is tied to

1176
01:25:47,040 --> 01:25:54,880
its location along the coastline as a
working fish house. Um, it would also be

1177
01:25:52,880 --> 01:26:00,000
costly and you'd have to acquire land to
move it to. Um, in talking with

1178
01:25:56,639 --> 01:26:04,639
stakeholders, this was one that was not
recommended. Um, replacing the fish

1179
01:26:03,120 --> 01:26:09,280
house
um, at a first floor elevation above

1180
01:26:07,120 --> 01:26:13,280
that 13.0
ft. Um,

1181
01:26:11,440 --> 01:26:19,520
this again would be challenging to
retain historic designation um, even if

1182
01:26:15,920 --> 01:26:25,679
you retained the structure. Um, and then
lastly, we looked at elevating the fish

1183
01:26:22,400 --> 01:26:29,920
house. Um, so this one would be um
raising the house 3 ft, building a new

1184
01:26:27,920 --> 01:26:34,880
foundation below it that acted as a
flood barrier. Um, we'd still have those

1185
01:26:32,800 --> 01:26:39,520
deployable barriers from the area John
talked about that would tie directly

1186
01:26:36,159 --> 01:26:42,639
into the new foundation. Um, build a new
ramp system around it, so you'd have

1187
01:26:41,040 --> 01:26:47,600
access to the storage lockers for the
fishermen. Um

1188
01:26:45,360 --> 01:26:53,120
and
um so this one is one that would be

1189
01:26:50,960 --> 01:26:57,360
consistent with the National Historic
Register listing. So you could actually

1190
01:26:54,480 --> 01:27:01,360
maintain that. Um and it is feasible. We
talked to a contractor in the area who

1191
01:26:58,880 --> 01:27:05,120
does this. Um it would just be probably
by far the most costly. Um so we did

1192
01:27:03,679 --> 01:27:11,280
cost estimates for the two that really
seem feasible in this. Um came up with I

1193
01:27:08,239 --> 01:27:16,880
think 60 560,000 for the temporary flood
proofing. Um and 2.4 4 million for

1194
01:27:14,080 --> 01:27:21,440
raising the fish house. Um, so pretty
dramatic difference. Um, but again, it's

1195
01:27:19,600 --> 01:27:25,679
it's talking about a temporary a
solution that requires manpower versus

1196
01:27:23,360 --> 01:27:29,920
one that allows the fish house to be
resilient on its own. Um,

1197
01:27:28,560 --> 01:27:33,840
» I know that was a lot of information.
So, any questions?

1198
01:27:31,199 --> 01:27:38,000
» Did you guys consult with the um
commercial users to see if elevating it

1199
01:27:36,400 --> 01:27:41,440
would be feasible?
>> Yes,

1200
01:27:38,639 --> 01:27:44,080
» we did. Yeah, we met with Ted and um
John Engles, I believe was his name.

1201
01:27:43,600 --> 01:27:47,840
» Yeah.
>> Um part of the solution because of the

1202
01:27:46,560 --> 01:27:51,920
ramping system would broaden the
footprint of it. The fish house would

1203
01:27:49,440 --> 01:27:56,560
have to be moved slightly to the side.
Um and you would lose one of the two

1204
01:27:53,920 --> 01:27:59,679
boat ramps. But talking with John, um it
seemed that only one of them is current

1205
01:27:57,920 --> 01:28:02,000
» he's now joining.
>> Go ahead.

1206
01:28:00,080 --> 01:28:04,880
» Uh only one of them is currently in use
anyways. So that wasn't um a deal

1207
01:28:04,159 --> 01:28:10,320
breaker.
>> Okay. So really there's one solution,

1208
01:28:08,480 --> 01:28:14,800
right? Out of the six you've got listed
here, there's really the temporary flood

1209
01:28:12,719 --> 01:28:16,960
proofing is your recommendation. Is that
what

1210
01:28:15,360 --> 01:28:21,920
» Well, I guess there's two if we want to
spend $2.4 million,

1211
01:28:19,199 --> 01:28:26,639
» right? Sure.
Uh I guess I would like go back to one

1212
01:28:24,960 --> 01:28:32,239
of my earlier like first comments was
that this study didn't lack the public

1213
01:28:28,639 --> 01:28:35,600
process and this is obviously a an asset
that has means a lot to a lot of people

1214
01:28:34,080 --> 01:28:38,960
and people look at it different
differently even within our like

1215
01:28:37,280 --> 01:28:43,920
committee there were different opinions
as to like you know what this building

1216
01:28:41,440 --> 01:28:49,280
could or should be right so if you're
going to spend $2.4 4 million to protect

1217
01:28:46,320 --> 01:28:54,480
an the commercial interests of you know
a small select number of fishermen like

1218
01:28:51,840 --> 01:28:57,199
some people in town like may or may not
be moved by that and others that's

1219
01:28:55,920 --> 01:29:02,159
absolutely critical to their livelihood
right so um I I think bringing in

1220
01:29:00,480 --> 01:29:07,600
broader perspectives and bringing this
through a public campaign would be very

1221
01:29:04,800 --> 01:29:10,960
helpful in terms of like decision-m I
don't think you can make a decision

1222
01:29:08,719 --> 01:29:12,960
based on where we are today right so I
just wanted

1223
01:29:11,440 --> 01:29:17,679
» right I think that that's the piece that
is kind of our wheelhouse house, right?

1224
01:29:15,199 --> 01:29:19,760
Is that that relationship with the
public and understanding what their

1225
01:29:19,040 --> 01:29:23,440
feelings are?
>> Absolutely.

1226
01:29:20,239 --> 01:29:28,400
» I think we'd, you know, um trust you to
give us the actual technical

1227
01:29:26,000 --> 01:29:32,719
recommendations and let us handle the
>> the kind of, you know, stakeholder

1228
01:29:30,719 --> 01:29:36,159
alignment and all that. So, that's kind
of what what I'm thinking anyway.

1229
01:29:35,760 --> 01:29:40,719
» Yeah.
>> And I will say all these solutions are

1230
01:29:37,920 --> 01:29:45,280
aimed at protecting the fish house. Um I
think regardless of which solution you

1231
01:29:42,719 --> 01:29:49,440
go with, you can that barrier can be
built behind the fish house. Um you can

1232
01:29:47,920 --> 01:29:54,159
provide protection for the whole town.
You can just have a three-foot wall

1233
01:29:50,880 --> 01:29:58,480
behind it. Um so this kind of can
function independently.

1234
01:29:56,000 --> 01:30:02,800
» Um so this is not necessarily a risk to
the whole town. It's just really what do

1235
01:30:00,239 --> 01:30:05,600
you want to do about this building?
>> Thank you.

1236
01:30:03,840 --> 01:30:08,560
» I guess regardless of what we decide for
the fish house, we need to do something

1237
01:30:06,880 --> 01:30:14,800
about Puritan Road though. So we want to
go back to zone B.

1238
01:30:12,000 --> 01:30:19,120
» Yes. Thank you. Yes. Um, so zone B,
Puritan Road, my colleagues were kind

1239
01:30:17,440 --> 01:30:25,199
enough to give me the most politically
sensitive stretch of shoreline to talk

1240
01:30:21,199 --> 01:30:30,239
to. So, thank you. Um, I say that
because obviously we include several um,

1241
01:30:28,639 --> 01:30:35,120
private properties along the stretch of
road that are that are right right at

1242
01:30:31,760 --> 01:30:44,239
the waterfront. And so the alternatives
that we uh, assessed here um, were there

1243
01:30:40,239 --> 01:30:44,239
were technically four. They're

1244
01:30:44,320 --> 01:30:54,800
They're basically two, but essentially
we have a a wall either be it either a

1245
01:30:52,159 --> 01:31:00,639
steel sheep pile wall or a concrete seaw
wall

1246
01:30:56,800 --> 01:31:06,080
uh or a beach and dune combination. Uh
one of them being a 30ft um width of

1247
01:31:04,320 --> 01:31:09,600
beach or you might you might hear me
call it a burm sometimes. uh that's the

1248
01:31:08,320 --> 01:31:14,800
flat part of the beach that people
recreate on or a 10- foot wide burm

1249
01:31:12,800 --> 01:31:19,520
which obviously is a either these both
of these are very narrow beaches, right?

1250
01:31:17,120 --> 01:31:23,440
Um so we took a look at each one of
those the cross-sections on the previous

1251
01:31:21,440 --> 01:31:28,719
slide. I probably pointed out a little
bit um that shows you kind of the

1252
01:31:26,719 --> 01:31:31,440
alignment that we would be looking at.
>> John

1253
01:31:29,600 --> 01:31:34,800
» is now exiting.
>> I was boring him to death apparently.

1254
01:31:34,400 --> 01:31:40,719
» All right,
>> don't take it personally. We don't

1255
01:31:38,080 --> 01:31:44,080
Um so all of this is on private
property. There is the existing seaw

1256
01:31:42,320 --> 01:31:50,480
wall that's there now that is privately
owned. It's built of um you know just

1257
01:31:47,199 --> 01:31:55,760
stone. So we would be either reinforcing
that building just immediately in front

1258
01:31:52,560 --> 01:32:00,080
of it or or building up or elevating uh
portions of it to a consistent uh

1259
01:31:58,159 --> 01:32:04,000
elevation. That's the other thing. The
consistent elevation is really important

1260
01:32:01,679 --> 01:32:08,080
here because these are private walls
that have been built, you know, hundred

1261
01:32:05,920 --> 01:32:12,480
years ago maybe. Um, they're all at
different elevations and so we want to

1262
01:32:10,480 --> 01:32:16,480
make sure that's a nice consistent, you
know, that 13 ft magic number that we've

1263
01:32:14,639 --> 01:32:22,880
been talking about.
So if we go back to the the next slide

1264
01:32:20,000 --> 01:32:29,199
um so when we compare them um from
benefits and and challenges or drawbacks

1265
01:32:25,840 --> 01:32:35,840
the the nature-based solutions um you
know the beach dune and um burm

1266
01:32:32,719 --> 01:32:40,480
combination has um the benefit of being
a nature-based solution and and not just

1267
01:32:38,400 --> 01:32:44,320
nature-based for naturebased sake but
also uh opens up for grant opportunities

1268
01:32:42,639 --> 01:32:49,760
a lot of times that you can find
opportunities through CCM and um and

1269
01:32:46,480 --> 01:32:54,560
others that can that are more
lenient towards uh greenbased solutions

1270
01:32:52,080 --> 01:32:59,199
as far as grants uh for funding and
construction. Uh the trade-off there of

1271
01:32:56,960 --> 01:33:04,719
course is that there is an O and M uh
need and after large storms we would

1272
01:33:01,679 --> 01:33:09,040
have to go back and and place sand to
reinforce that template. That is sort of

1273
01:33:06,880 --> 01:33:15,679
the the what we'd call the design
template.

1274
01:33:10,719 --> 01:33:20,320
Um the 30-foot beach is basically the
same flavor except that when as far as

1275
01:33:18,320 --> 01:33:24,480
longevity is concerned, the wider the
beach, the longer uh it's going to stay

1276
01:33:22,719 --> 01:33:29,360
there. So erosion is sort of an
everpresent pressure at the shoreline.

1277
01:33:26,960 --> 01:33:34,000
So um you just buy you buy yourself a
little bit more time.

1278
01:33:31,520 --> 01:33:39,679
The two versions of the seaw wall are
basically the same as far as what um you

1279
01:33:38,000 --> 01:33:43,840
know the drawbacks are concerned and the
benefits that they provide. The only

1280
01:33:41,840 --> 01:33:47,280
real difference is the material cost and
we find that sheep pile seaw walls are

1281
01:33:46,000 --> 01:33:51,280
tend to be more expensive just because
of the price of the steel or or if you

1282
01:33:49,760 --> 01:33:56,159
put composite in there that might be
make it more expensive.

1283
01:33:53,679 --> 01:34:01,280
So of those four options we landed on
the raised concrete seaw wall as the

1284
01:33:58,239 --> 01:34:06,639
highest scoring solution. Um and uh
let's see if we go one more slide

1285
01:34:04,000 --> 01:34:11,760
please. Uh this is just sort of what
that alignment would look like um in

1286
01:34:10,239 --> 01:34:14,719
theory. And so these can you know this
sh this could shift a little bit. We're

1287
01:34:13,520 --> 01:34:18,320
more or less trying to follow the
existing alignment of the the seaw wall

1288
01:34:16,800 --> 01:34:21,360
that's there now. So we're trying to
minimize the amount of you know

1289
01:34:20,159 --> 01:34:26,000
construction that would need to take
place. And of course uh this would

1290
01:34:23,760 --> 01:34:32,000
require some sort of buy in from the
folks that live there right. Um,

1291
01:34:29,199 --> 01:34:36,560
so that is uh that that lead that that
is zone B. Um, if we could skip to

1292
01:34:35,360 --> 01:34:40,239
» I just have a quick question.
>> Oh yeah, sure. Of course.

1293
01:34:37,520 --> 01:34:48,320
» Because it's a uh we'll call it a public
private partnership with if we um raised

1294
01:34:44,800 --> 01:34:55,520
the seaw wall and made it one contiguous
um concrete structure.

1295
01:34:52,159 --> 01:35:00,639
Um, number one, are we allowed to do
that without

1296
01:34:58,080 --> 01:35:07,280
p without the private property owner's
permission? I would assume we are not.

1297
01:35:03,840 --> 01:35:12,639
» And if we do do it, how do we put the
onus on the property owner to maintain

1298
01:35:09,840 --> 01:35:17,840
it if we paid for it? Like, are we
liable for its failure? Are we what is

1299
01:35:15,600 --> 01:35:21,199
what are the legal ramifications of
>> the town doing it?

1300
01:35:19,760 --> 01:35:24,080
I don't know if I can speak to that
intelligently. I can guess, but I don't

1301
01:35:22,880 --> 01:35:28,480
want to put myself.
>> Okay.

1302
01:35:26,400 --> 01:35:32,800
Take could take the seaw walls
>> by an agree agreeable eminent domain.

1303
01:35:31,440 --> 01:35:37,760
» Are you offering?
>> Yes, I would offer that. Um, but you

1304
01:35:36,320 --> 01:35:41,920
have to you have to understand that some
of the seaw walls are owned and then

1305
01:35:40,400 --> 01:35:45,840
percentage of the beach is owned in
front of it. So, it's not just the seaw

1306
01:35:43,360 --> 01:35:49,679
wall, but it's also the land on the on
the on the beach side. So, some of the

1307
01:35:48,239 --> 01:35:50,639
properties are a little bit different,
but

1308
01:35:50,320 --> 01:35:53,840
» yeah,
>> they're not all like that though, right?

1309
01:35:52,320 --> 01:35:56,800
» No, they're not all like that. So,
>> but a lot of most of them, I would dare

1310
01:35:55,920 --> 01:35:59,600
to say, are.
>> Yeah. Mhm.

1311
01:35:57,600 --> 01:36:02,560
» So, that would be regardless of which
approach here we would take or could

1312
01:36:01,920 --> 01:36:05,679
take,
>> they would all have some component of

1313
01:36:04,400 --> 01:36:09,199
going on private property.
>> Right.

1314
01:36:06,080 --> 01:36:13,920
» Right. So, I I think legally that could
all be worked out. I would I would think

1315
01:36:11,679 --> 01:36:19,440
that if you're presenting something that
would benefit the town by raising that

1316
01:36:16,320 --> 01:36:25,760
and locking up water coming out onto
Puritan Road and coming out at the end

1317
01:36:22,000 --> 01:36:28,320
of Puritan Road and also by on the left
side there protecting the fish house,

1318
01:36:27,920 --> 01:36:31,280
» right?
>> By sealing something in there, that

1319
01:36:29,760 --> 01:36:33,679
would be a major benefit to that whole
area.

1320
01:36:31,920 --> 01:36:37,920
» I mean, it's mutually beneficial to all
of those property owners and their

1321
01:36:35,120 --> 01:36:41,440
property to prevent the flooding. So, I
would assume that there would be sort of

1322
01:36:39,920 --> 01:36:45,040
a quidd proquo.
>> To your point about maintenance, and I

1323
01:36:43,360 --> 01:36:49,119
can only speak from personal experience
owning one of those little parcels

1324
01:36:46,960 --> 01:36:53,440
» on the map here that it's not on a seaw
wall, but right in front of it. Um, most

1325
01:36:51,840 --> 01:36:57,280
of the folks I know over here maintain
their own seaw walls. So, it would be

1326
01:36:55,840 --> 01:37:00,320
» you'd be changing the height of the
maintenance, right? But

1327
01:36:58,880 --> 01:37:01,679
» they're already maintaining it to some
to varying degrees.

1328
01:37:01,440 --> 01:37:04,080
» Okay.
>> Yeah. One of the things we've learned

1329
01:37:02,719 --> 01:37:10,239
here though is though, you know, the
smallest uh uh break or the smallest ch

1330
01:37:08,000 --> 01:37:13,119
weak link in the chain exposes the
entire town to

1331
01:37:11,840 --> 01:37:18,159
» and and the rest of that entire
community particularly to flooding.

1332
01:37:16,159 --> 01:37:21,920
» Yeah,
that's interesting.

1333
01:37:19,679 --> 01:37:27,119
» It's I would love to understand KP's
position on that.

1334
01:37:23,760 --> 01:37:32,560
» Okay, we can look into it. Does do any
of these solutions require pilings that

1335
01:37:29,679 --> 01:37:37,520
need to go down towards bedrock just to
keep them secure from the hydraulic

1336
01:37:35,199 --> 01:37:40,960
forces of of
the ocean?

1337
01:37:38,560 --> 01:37:46,080
» Uh we haven't done that level of design
here. Um I can tell you that typically

1338
01:37:43,520 --> 01:37:51,280
these sort of projects don't there you
you need to assess for scour and make

1339
01:37:49,600 --> 01:37:54,800
sure that you're protected down to the
design level of scour at the toe of the

1340
01:37:53,760 --> 01:37:59,679
structure. or so have you picked
>> scour means just for

1341
01:37:56,560 --> 01:38:04,800
» is that's you know it's a fair question
um as waves are are kind of battering a

1342
01:38:01,840 --> 01:38:10,000
wall if you will um the where the wall
meets the sand at the at the toe of the

1343
01:38:07,360 --> 01:38:16,000
structure that has that will that
elevation will lower will drop down over

1344
01:38:12,480 --> 01:38:20,159
the course of a storm because that wave
energy has to go somewhere and so what

1345
01:38:18,000 --> 01:38:24,400
it will do instead of breaking your wall
it eats out the the turbulence eats out

1346
01:38:22,239 --> 01:38:30,960
the material at the bottom of the wall
and what usually a rule of thumb we'll

1347
01:38:26,639 --> 01:38:35,520
say is um the design wave height in
incident to the wall is typically what

1348
01:38:32,880 --> 01:38:39,199
we would expect for a depth of scour for
that sort of structure. So if you say

1349
01:38:37,199 --> 01:38:42,880
like a 3-ft wave or is it just the right
number out 3ft wave then you need to

1350
01:38:41,199 --> 01:38:47,760
make sure that your wall is at least 3
feet plus probably a little bit of bonus

1351
01:38:45,840 --> 01:38:53,679
down below the depth of sand so that
you're able to um withstand that scour.

1352
01:38:51,520 --> 01:38:59,280
Um geotechnical engineers would take a
deeper look at that uh no pun intended

1353
01:38:56,320 --> 01:39:02,880
to uh figure out how much further down
they would need to go just to make sure

1354
01:39:00,560 --> 01:39:04,639
that the uh structure was not going to
>> topple over from the dirt.

1355
01:39:03,840 --> 01:39:08,719
» You don't think it would have to go all
the way down a bedrock though?

1356
01:39:06,320 --> 01:39:13,760
» I don't expect so. No.
>> John, from your past piling experience

1357
01:39:11,760 --> 01:39:19,040
here, that was pretty pretty deep,
right?

1358
01:39:15,840 --> 01:39:22,639
» Yeah. So the the violence the bedrock is
really for vertical forces because

1359
01:39:20,960 --> 01:39:27,679
you're you're transferring that load
downward. Here we got forces coming at

1360
01:39:24,880 --> 01:39:30,800
us horizontally. So you're more you have
to have a wider foundation base. First

1361
01:39:29,679 --> 01:39:33,520
of all, it's a concrete structure.
You're not going to have to do that. But

1362
01:39:31,920 --> 01:39:37,679
you probably have a wider footing with a
keyhole in it to prevent over topping of

1363
01:39:35,760 --> 01:39:40,800
the wall and again prevent against that
scour. So, I think you'd have to worry

1364
01:39:39,040 --> 01:39:43,679
about going bedrock because Yeah. Well,
it's it's pretty variable in there, but

1365
01:39:42,400 --> 01:39:46,719
I don't think you would get deep enough
to get to that and you wouldn't have to

1366
01:39:45,440 --> 01:39:49,760
deal with those forces.
>> Okay. Thanks.

1367
01:39:48,080 --> 01:39:56,000
» So, what you're recommending here is
you're recommending making the seaw wall

1368
01:39:52,000 --> 01:40:00,800
go down uh by the entrance there and
then putting in deployable flood

1369
01:39:58,159 --> 01:40:07,040
barriers all the way along the side. But
are you also recommending increasing

1370
01:40:03,520 --> 01:40:11,840
that the height of the seaw wall
that's up against Puritan road on here?

1371
01:40:09,760 --> 01:40:15,280
» We took a look at that actually. I think
it was high enough already to meet that

1372
01:40:13,679 --> 01:40:18,480
design flood elevation. So
>> yeah, when I asked you guys this when

1373
01:40:17,119 --> 01:40:22,239
you presented this to our stakeholder
group, you had said that was like I want

1374
01:40:19,760 --> 01:40:26,239
to say 13.2. It was like just over
because visually I was thinking well how

1375
01:40:24,080 --> 01:40:32,280
does that relate?
>> And based on the conversation that we

1376
01:40:27,600 --> 01:40:32,280
had, it was pretty similar. Great.

1377
01:40:32,320 --> 01:40:41,440
» Uh, so let's see if we skip ahead to
slide 19.

1378
01:40:38,080 --> 01:40:46,239
Oh, perfect. Thank you very much. Um, so
this gets into the uh what we've been

1379
01:40:43,360 --> 01:40:52,440
calling the performance modeling. Um,
that takes a look at Oh, sorry, previous

1380
01:40:49,440 --> 01:40:52,440
slide.

1381
01:40:53,199 --> 01:41:02,000
You're stealing my thunder.
So what we do is we take each of these

1382
01:40:59,440 --> 01:41:07,679
alternatives and we will run them
through a computer simulation and each

1383
01:41:04,960 --> 01:41:12,880
of these simulations is going to look at
um three different scenarios uh based

1384
01:41:10,480 --> 01:41:22,880
off of the peak water surface elevation
uh during a given storm. So a a 100year

1385
01:41:16,159 --> 01:41:29,199
or a 1% uh 2030 a 1% 2070 and then uh a
500y year or 2% 2070.

1386
01:41:26,560 --> 01:41:33,760
Um those elevation and peak elevations
off that top right corner of our slide

1387
01:41:31,520 --> 01:41:41,199
here. You can see those kind of level
off right around just under 10 ft, just

1388
01:41:36,800 --> 01:41:45,840
under 13 ft and then uh just over 13
feet. I can't see the decimal from here,

1389
01:41:43,040 --> 01:41:46,880
but it was I think 13.6 or something.
>> Nine.

1390
01:41:46,320 --> 01:41:51,119
» 3.9.
>> Yeah,

1391
01:41:47,280 --> 01:41:55,199
» 13.9. Thank you very much.
Um

1392
01:41:52,639 --> 01:42:00,159
the alternatives that we looked at was
first um just alternative one, which is

1393
01:41:58,320 --> 01:42:04,080
just that white alignment that you see
on the map to the left. That's the area

1394
01:42:02,480 --> 01:42:10,159
in and around the fish house and the
parking lot that's there. Um,

1395
01:42:06,080 --> 01:42:15,280
alternative two uh is the is the
affformentioned uh fish house area plus

1396
01:42:12,480 --> 01:42:21,760
the private seaw wall area along Puritan
road that zone B. And then um as an

1397
01:42:19,040 --> 01:42:25,920
alternative three uh we kept both of
those and then also incorporated um and

1398
01:42:24,400 --> 01:42:32,719
this is a little bit of foreshadowing
but we incorporated um some elevated um

1399
01:42:30,159 --> 01:42:36,560
portions of Wyatt Wales and Eisman's
Beach. And what we did there because

1400
01:42:34,880 --> 01:42:40,560
it's it was sort of the design of
anything like that was outside of our

1401
01:42:38,639 --> 01:42:45,679
scope. We just basically raised that
portion of those roads up to I think 17

1402
01:42:43,440 --> 01:42:50,239
ft something just large enough that
would everything gets blocked.

1403
01:42:47,920 --> 01:42:54,880
» So you raise the roads.
>> Yes. And numerically we raised the

1404
01:42:52,400 --> 01:42:58,800
roads. Yes. But it's not something that
is part of we're not we're not proposing

1405
01:42:56,880 --> 01:43:03,040
anything. I'm just wanted to actually
you'll see it on our next slide. I

1406
01:43:00,880 --> 01:43:10,159
should I probably should have led with
that. If you go to the next slide,

1407
01:43:06,880 --> 01:43:16,000
uh we see the results of our uh modeling
for each of those different scenarios.

1408
01:43:12,800 --> 01:43:19,679
Um so starting at the top left, we have
the existing condition and this is the

1409
01:43:17,920 --> 01:43:24,639
peak water surface elevation that we're
showing or I guess the peak water depth

1410
01:43:22,639 --> 01:43:29,199
that we're showing. And you those white
arrows are indicating where the water is

1411
01:43:26,400 --> 01:43:34,480
coming from. They're coming from over um
Fisherman's Beach and then of course

1412
01:43:30,560 --> 01:43:40,159
over um Cassidy Park to the right there
and then even more so or just as much I

1413
01:43:36,800 --> 01:43:47,280
should say at Wales and Isman. Um when
we do this for the other alternatives uh

1414
01:43:44,080 --> 01:43:50,400
one and two uh the results are virtually
the same. So if we're looking at this

1415
01:43:48,800 --> 01:43:56,400
really one of these things is not like
the other, right? And then what we'll

1416
01:43:52,960 --> 01:44:01,840
see here at alternative three, um there
virtually is no flooding. And what this

1417
01:43:58,320 --> 01:44:06,480
tells us here is that we can we can
block Fisherman's Beach through the

1418
01:44:04,159 --> 01:44:11,840
raising of private seaw walls through
fortification of Fish House. Um but

1419
01:44:09,600 --> 01:44:17,920
there is an alternative flood path and
that is over Wales and Eisman's Beach

1420
01:44:14,320 --> 01:44:22,000
and that's and that's basically the um
you know that portion of Puritan Road

1421
01:44:19,679 --> 01:44:27,119
that's a little bit lower. These are
extreme events. This is the 20 uh 20

1422
01:44:26,560 --> 01:44:31,840
» 70
>> Thank you. 2070 100year event. This is

1423
01:44:30,000 --> 01:44:36,960
the one that showed really the
distinction between these. What's the

1424
01:44:33,920 --> 01:44:40,560
current height of the uh flood walls
along Puritan Road behind Eisman's and

1425
01:44:39,199 --> 01:44:45,280
Wales?
>> Along P along Wales and Eisman

1426
01:44:43,199 --> 01:44:50,159
» the green that you added for good
measure.

1427
01:44:46,080 --> 01:44:55,280
» Yeah. Uh those are close to I want to
say 11 ft or so. There's no there's no

1428
01:44:53,600 --> 01:44:58,880
walls there, right? It's just it's the
road. So we didn't include any wall.

1429
01:44:57,040 --> 01:45:02,159
» No, there's a wall seaw wall.
>> Oh, okay. So

1430
01:44:59,679 --> 01:45:04,000
» all the way across the coast there. So
>> Okay. So that's

1431
01:45:03,280 --> 01:45:06,800
» steps
>> go up.

1432
01:45:05,280 --> 01:45:08,159
» But there are some lowlying areas for
sure.

1433
01:45:06,960 --> 01:45:12,960
» The lowlying areas.
>> Yeah. The grass, the drive that comes

1434
01:45:10,560 --> 01:45:18,239
into it. But
>> so why why make that area 17 versus 13

1435
01:45:16,800 --> 01:45:22,239
when we were talking about 13 the whole
time?

1436
01:45:19,440 --> 01:45:28,560
It was just we wanted to just separate
it from the design elements of of the

1437
01:45:25,040 --> 01:45:37,040
fisherman's beach study and just make it
something that was just a full blockage

1438
01:45:32,159 --> 01:45:40,080
of um water at that area. And and the
reason and the reason that it could be

1439
01:45:38,880 --> 01:45:44,639
something different over there is
because whales and eyesmans is more

1440
01:45:41,840 --> 01:45:49,360
exposed to the open ocean and so 13 ft
would probably be a little bit uh low

1441
01:45:47,840 --> 01:45:54,320
over on that side.
>> Is there an elevation change?

1442
01:45:50,719 --> 01:46:00,080
» Is I guess um can we could you guys show
us an alt three which has it at 13 ft?

1443
01:45:58,639 --> 01:46:04,560
» Why? Like
>> I just I just wonder how cuz you know

1444
01:46:02,080 --> 01:46:09,199
we've been talking about 13 and if I
mean to Wayne's point not to belabor

1445
01:46:06,480 --> 01:46:10,560
Wayne's point but he was saying why not
higher.

1446
01:46:10,000 --> 01:46:15,600
» I think they
>> but then you went higher.

1447
01:46:12,480 --> 01:46:19,840
» Isn't all two showing the 13T
to answer your question? I

1448
01:46:16,639 --> 01:46:24,560
» No, it is. But but if you look Okay. So
So alt one is just the fisherman's

1449
01:46:22,239 --> 01:46:30,880
parking lot. Alt two includes Puritan
Road and the you know in the um existing

1450
01:46:28,159 --> 01:46:34,719
seaw wall along Puritin road but alt
three includes 17 ft along Eisman's and

1451
01:46:34,239 --> 01:46:38,239
Wales.
>> Right. And is that the elevation that

1452
01:46:36,560 --> 01:46:41,440
you found that you needed to totally
block

1453
01:46:39,600 --> 01:46:44,880
» that? We use 17 because you were just
trying to block it off.

1454
01:46:42,400 --> 01:46:49,119
» 17 was just a conservative estimate. It
could have just been it could have been

1455
01:46:46,480 --> 01:46:52,400
just as much at 13 and a half or
something. And we just wanted we didn't

1456
01:46:50,320 --> 01:46:55,840
want to spend budget figuring out what
that design elevation would be over

1457
01:46:54,080 --> 01:47:00,320
there because we just wanted to assess
the viability of oils and eyesman as an

1458
01:46:58,960 --> 01:47:02,159
alternative flood path.
>> Yeah.

1459
01:47:00,639 --> 01:47:03,600
» Got it. So it's slightly outside of the
scope, right?

1460
01:47:03,040 --> 01:47:06,080
» Yeah.
>> Yeah. I get I get that it's outside the

1461
01:47:04,960 --> 01:47:10,560
scope, but I guess I'm trying to
disprove Wayne's point that it shouldn't

1462
01:47:07,840 --> 01:47:14,560
be 17 ft everywhere. And you maybe just
helped his argument by saying, "Oh, if

1463
01:47:12,239 --> 01:47:18,400
we did 17 ft here, you'd block this path
also and then you have no color change

1464
01:47:16,719 --> 01:47:23,199
because there's essentially no flooding
because we've sort of bur made a barrier

1465
01:47:21,199 --> 01:47:27,199
for that whole C area." So, I'm just
curious what it looks like if that area

1466
01:47:24,960 --> 01:47:32,800
we're only 13,
>> you know, and then why not?

1467
01:47:28,960 --> 01:47:36,320
» So, it's a Yeah. So it's a little bit um
uh misleading the way the way that we've

1468
01:47:34,639 --> 01:47:43,119
labeled this is we have these white
arrows are showing the direction the the

1469
01:47:39,119 --> 01:47:47,600
directionality of the flow. Uh the while
the results of these other three

1470
01:47:45,600 --> 01:47:52,239
colorful quadrants look very similar
because they end up with the same or

1471
01:47:49,360 --> 01:47:57,280
similar peak water surface elevation
>> um ultimately the the way that those

1472
01:47:54,880 --> 01:48:04,000
portions of the town get wet are very
different. Mhm.

1473
01:47:58,480 --> 01:48:10,560
» So in alternative one uh for example
where we have um just the fish house

1474
01:48:08,480 --> 01:48:16,080
protected, we still see water coming up
and over uh those homes adjacent to uh

1475
01:48:13,520 --> 01:48:21,040
Puritan Road behind Fisherman's Beach.
Um which is kind of what those white

1476
01:48:17,600 --> 01:48:27,520
arrows are showing at Fisherman's. If we
look at alternative uh two,

1477
01:48:24,480 --> 01:48:32,080
um those areas still get wet, but that
it's because water has actually come

1478
01:48:29,600 --> 01:48:36,480
through Wales and Eisman's to the south
and has kind of worked its way up

1479
01:48:33,679 --> 01:48:39,119
Humphrey Street and back. So B totally
get it. So basically what you're saying

1480
01:48:37,679 --> 01:48:42,639
is that if we don't do anything in Wales
and Eisman, the rest of it is it doesn't

1481
01:48:41,679 --> 01:48:46,560
make a difference if we do anything
else. We need to address Wales and

1482
01:48:43,840 --> 01:48:48,639
Eisman regardless if it's 13 ft, 17 ft,
whatever it is, that study needs to come

1483
01:48:48,159 --> 01:48:51,040
next.
>> That's correct. Richmond is then just

1484
01:48:49,920 --> 01:48:55,199
going to flag whales.
>> That's correct. During during this

1485
01:48:52,320 --> 01:48:59,199
during this extreme event which is a 1%
2070 storm. Yes.

1486
01:48:57,199 --> 01:49:02,639
» And this is a 1% where previously we
were designing to the point 2 the 500

1487
01:49:01,760 --> 01:49:06,960
year
>> the even more.

1488
01:49:04,320 --> 01:49:10,560
» So can we see a performance model of
that?

1489
01:49:09,520 --> 01:49:14,960
» Wait.
>> So I think it's inside the scope of what

1490
01:49:12,719 --> 01:49:22,000
we asked them to do here. No, but I mean
we we planned for

1491
01:49:17,920 --> 01:49:26,239
this all the plans prior talk about this
event that we're planning for, but then

1492
01:49:24,320 --> 01:49:30,320
we modeled to a worse event.
>> No, this is actually more likely. This

1493
01:49:27,760 --> 01:49:33,920
100year storm is more likely 1% chance
rather than 0.2%.

1494
01:49:31,760 --> 01:49:35,760
» Got it. I thought it was flipped. Sorry.
>> Okay.

1495
01:49:34,719 --> 01:49:38,000
» And just to clarify,
>> probabilities are worse in this case.

1496
01:49:37,520 --> 01:49:41,679
» Yeah.
>> Yes.

1497
01:49:39,360 --> 01:49:44,880
» In the last scenario, it's still 13 ft
along fish in speech. Yeah.

1498
01:49:44,480 --> 01:49:46,239
» Right.
>> Thank you.

1499
01:49:45,520 --> 01:49:48,719
» Yes.
>> Yes. Y

1500
01:49:47,040 --> 01:49:53,119
» sorry. Just want to make sure that's a
good clarification.

1501
01:49:51,520 --> 01:49:56,800
» Um
so with that, uh

1502
01:49:54,880 --> 01:50:01,040
» so we can't save the pump house without
doing the entire road is what you're

1503
01:49:58,880 --> 01:50:08,560
saying. So Mary Ellen's point originally
is while it was not within the scope of

1504
01:50:03,679 --> 01:50:12,719
your ask which I understand
if we don't basically

1505
01:50:11,119 --> 01:50:18,080
water will always find a path unless we
block it. So if we don't block it all

1506
01:50:16,639 --> 01:50:21,840
» we're probably not going to have any of
those assets. The original study, the

1507
01:50:20,000 --> 01:50:30,480
original study that was done was very
clear where our most vulnerable place is

1508
01:50:26,480 --> 01:50:33,040
in the section of uh not the fish, not
not Fert, not the fish house, but over

1509
01:50:32,560 --> 01:50:35,440
by
>> Philips Park,

1510
01:50:33,679 --> 01:50:40,880
» Wales and Phillips. That's our most
vulnerable area. So, in order for us to

1511
01:50:38,320 --> 01:50:43,119
protect our most vulnerable area and
plus some, we have to do the whole

1512
01:50:42,480 --> 01:50:49,280
corridor,
>> right? I would I would think that's the

1513
01:50:46,080 --> 01:50:54,960
the update to this to this study.
>> I guess I I would say you can protect

1514
01:50:52,239 --> 01:50:59,040
the pump station as a single building
using temporary flood barriers. You

1515
01:50:56,719 --> 01:51:03,199
don't you know like if that was the only
asset you were concerned about.

1516
01:51:00,800 --> 01:51:05,840
» You could do that pretty easily with
temporary flood barriers. There's not a

1517
01:51:04,480 --> 01:51:10,159
lot of flood pathways into that
building. Um really the charter for this

1518
01:51:09,040 --> 01:51:15,440
whole project was to look
comprehensively at the coastline um and

1519
01:51:12,960 --> 01:51:18,400
like what you know looking for a a
comprehensive approach to protecting

1520
01:51:17,040 --> 01:51:23,040
everything right so that's kind of what
this report is is doing but you can

1521
01:51:20,159 --> 01:51:25,520
absolutely you know protect one asset
separately through you know temporary

1522
01:51:24,719 --> 01:51:29,679
mechanisms
>> what what was the risk assessment over

1523
01:51:27,199 --> 01:51:35,679
as you get east
along right along Phillips Preston even

1524
01:51:33,199 --> 01:51:39,040
towards the Marblehead line
>> what was the I know that's a little bit

1525
01:51:37,360 --> 01:51:43,520
higher in elevation. Is that is that
what was that risk assessment lower

1526
01:51:41,119 --> 01:51:49,760
because that elevation is
above 13 ft? I think the um there was

1527
01:51:47,360 --> 01:51:54,480
fewer assets town municipal owned assets
I think in those in the area. Um Palmer

1528
01:51:52,159 --> 01:51:58,960
Pond is a pretty big percentage of the
flood area on Philips Beach. Um but I

1529
01:51:57,440 --> 01:52:04,000
think that first graphic kind of showed
the the extent and depth um page one.

1530
01:52:02,159 --> 01:52:08,960
Yeah,
>> there are some dark green areas here

1531
01:52:07,840 --> 01:52:13,440
» which is uh
>> Oh, thank you. Yes,

1532
01:52:10,159 --> 01:52:17,119
» by Philip Speech right there.
>> Yep.

1533
01:52:14,480 --> 01:52:20,840
» Keep going backwards if you're Yeah,
that one. Thank you.

1534
01:52:21,280 --> 01:52:26,000
» Okay. Well, this is a lot to digest.
Mhm.

1535
01:52:24,560 --> 01:52:29,520
» One of one of the things in common that
I see throughout here, and it goes back

1536
01:52:27,520 --> 01:52:33,520
to my original observation at the
beginning of your presentation, was the

1537
01:52:31,599 --> 01:52:36,960
fish house remains in the flood zone.
>> Mhm.

1538
01:52:34,960 --> 01:52:42,080
» As opposed to
being the option number one, which was

1539
01:52:39,280 --> 01:52:47,520
building the structure on the beach side
and then locking it up with the

1540
01:52:43,920 --> 01:52:53,440
temporary barriers, thus keeping the
fish house out of the flood zone.

1541
01:52:51,360 --> 01:52:57,360
Does that resonate with anybody or
>> using flood zone as in protected area?

1542
01:52:56,080 --> 01:53:00,800
» No, as in like what's going to be
flooded.

1543
01:52:59,119 --> 01:53:06,000
» So there's the fish the fish house is
sitting as it kind of cuts off, right?

1544
01:53:03,119 --> 01:53:09,599
The fish house is not protected
unless you mitigate what you were

1545
01:53:08,400 --> 01:53:13,520
talking about before, which is a
separate zone around the fish house

1546
01:53:11,199 --> 01:53:18,560
itself as opposed to being inclusive
along the beach line with,

1547
01:53:17,119 --> 01:53:24,400
you know, openings that can be
temporarily closed off through

1548
01:53:20,960 --> 01:53:28,800
mitigation or not barrier devices.
So, you're saying like take that blue

1549
01:53:25,760 --> 01:53:32,480
line, bring it to the actual uh front of
the parking, carry it all the way across

1550
01:53:30,480 --> 01:53:36,159
to the front of the fish house and
actually close it off and then bring it

1551
01:53:34,159 --> 01:53:38,000
back up alongside to the private
parcels.

1552
01:53:36,719 --> 01:53:43,119
» Right. We're like cutting.
>> So, if you if you just go take the seaw

1553
01:53:40,800 --> 01:53:45,440
wall and go, are you saying take the
seaw wall?

1554
01:53:43,760 --> 01:53:48,239
» Take the black line at the bottom. Take
the blue and pull it forward. Yeah. Pull

1555
01:53:47,440 --> 01:53:51,679
it forward. Whichever.
>> Right. Which was that was an option. It

1556
01:53:49,760 --> 01:53:54,960
was alternate one but but it was frowned
against because of I don't know if it

1557
01:53:54,080 --> 01:53:58,480
was the cost or the
>> I think John had mentioned there was

1558
01:53:56,560 --> 01:54:01,719
ongoing cost of maintenance that was
more significant

1559
01:54:02,639 --> 01:54:07,040
» but you you you you have
>> you solve the problem

1560
01:54:05,199 --> 01:54:11,199
» you sol you sol it's more of a solvable
problem

1561
01:54:07,599 --> 01:54:16,639
» a full problem and not just pieces of it
>> kind of let me kind of take this I think

1562
01:54:14,320 --> 01:54:20,159
to the next step if we did raise seaw
wall along the beach understanding the

1563
01:54:18,320 --> 01:54:23,840
higher maintenance cost,
>> right?

1564
01:54:20,560 --> 01:54:28,560
» Does that minimize, limit, alternate the
expense of the fish fish house specific?

1565
01:54:27,440 --> 01:54:31,119
» This is what I was trying to ask
originally.

1566
01:54:30,080 --> 01:54:33,280
» Yeah.
>> Um so if you

1567
01:54:32,080 --> 01:54:36,960
» or eliminate them,
>> if you did that, the the amount of

1568
01:54:35,440 --> 01:54:42,080
temporary barriers you need in front of
the fish house would be smaller than if

1569
01:54:38,400 --> 01:54:45,440
you did a perimeter back to um Humphrey
Street,

1570
01:54:42,719 --> 01:54:51,760
» right? Um, I think John's point was
because of the location, um, being sure

1571
01:54:49,040 --> 01:54:54,719
because sandashing back, um, installing
those temporary barriers in a sealed way

1572
01:54:53,599 --> 01:54:58,880
would be more difficult at the
beachfront, which is why we were leaning

1573
01:54:56,560 --> 01:55:02,560
towards the Humphrey Street alignment.
>> Um, but I do see your point.

1574
01:55:00,960 --> 01:55:08,400
» To be fair, what's any more different
about the difficulty of that than it is

1575
01:55:04,800 --> 01:55:12,639
along the other quarter mile of stretch
along Puritan Road and even on Eisman's

1576
01:55:10,880 --> 01:55:16,719
Eisman? Maybe that's a let's just stick
stick on the Puritan road area. What's

1577
01:55:14,639 --> 01:55:19,760
any different than that other than you
have an existing seaw wall there already

1578
01:55:18,239 --> 01:55:22,800
that you would be building upon or you
would

1579
01:55:20,560 --> 01:55:26,719
» as we discussed minutes ago you'd be
creating whatever you needed to create.

1580
01:55:24,480 --> 01:55:28,320
This is specifically for the deployable
barriers.

1581
01:55:27,119 --> 01:55:32,239
» So you're not using the temporary
deployable barriers. You're building

1582
01:55:30,000 --> 01:55:35,199
seaw wall there. So it's a little so
you're building a more permanent

1583
01:55:33,520 --> 01:55:38,000
structure not meant to be temporarily
removed and that's

1584
01:55:36,080 --> 01:55:41,360
» fair installed. So there'd be some more
reliability to that permanent structure.

1585
01:55:39,920 --> 01:55:45,199
» Great. Yeah.
>> Yeah. So the Puritan road that was all

1586
01:55:43,440 --> 01:55:49,760
permanent.
>> So the real

1587
01:55:47,679 --> 01:55:54,400
» alternative, right, Wayne's suggestion
of if the seaw wall is on the beach side

1588
01:55:52,080 --> 01:55:58,800
and then the temporary barriers were
closer to where the pier stands now on

1589
01:55:56,239 --> 01:56:04,320
the seawward side of the fish house. The
con for that is there's more significant

1590
01:56:01,679 --> 01:56:06,960
maintenance concerns and upkeep in terms
of cost and operations, but the efficacy

1591
01:56:06,159 --> 01:56:11,199
is similar.
>> Yep. You'd have to ahead of installing

1592
01:56:09,920 --> 01:56:16,960
those, you'd have to make sure that
they're clear of stick sand. Um because

1593
01:56:14,480 --> 01:56:19,920
those have to be affixed to a
foundation.

1594
01:56:18,400 --> 01:56:22,960
» Oh, got it. Okay.
>> So, but there's less

1595
01:56:21,119 --> 01:56:24,880
» deployable, but you can't
>> go ahead.

1596
01:56:23,520 --> 01:56:28,719
» Sorry. Deployable, you can't just put
them anywhere. You actually do install

1597
01:56:26,880 --> 01:56:33,840
like a prefab foundation that they're
attached to and bolted in. So, uh on the

1598
01:56:32,239 --> 01:56:37,360
asphalt side, it's obviously much easier
to keep that seal. Whereas if you're on

1599
01:56:35,599 --> 01:56:40,480
the beach side, traffic going over it,
you're going to get sanded on that

1600
01:56:38,400 --> 01:56:45,520
rubber all the time. So it's just
long-term effectiveness and and facility

1601
01:56:43,040 --> 01:56:49,199
of deploying it. But it is something we
can continue to look at. Um, you know,

1602
01:56:47,840 --> 01:56:51,679
if that's if that's the way the town
wants to go.

1603
01:56:50,080 --> 01:56:54,400
» That explanation is really helpful.
Thank you.

1604
01:56:52,480 --> 01:56:56,480
» The efficacy is not the same in that
day-to-day operation,

1605
01:56:56,000 --> 01:57:00,320
» right?
>> Yeah. I want to be very clear because

1606
01:56:58,560 --> 01:57:07,719
it's requiring expertise that we may or
may not have at the time of that storm.

1607
01:57:04,480 --> 01:57:07,719
Makes sense.

1608
01:57:07,840 --> 01:57:15,679
» Okay. So, what's some next steps here,
Nick, for this?

1609
01:57:12,400 --> 01:57:20,639
» We are waiting for the final report.
>> Okay.

1610
01:57:16,560 --> 01:57:24,239
» Yep. So, the final report um I think we
provided to Marcy. I think she's done it

1611
01:57:23,599 --> 01:57:27,239
on
>> Marcy.

1612
01:57:27,440 --> 01:57:33,360
» How long did it take to do this report?
I was going to say we we've received

1613
01:57:30,480 --> 01:57:36,960
comments from Martha Schmidt's committee
and if there's any other comments from

1614
01:57:35,280 --> 01:57:40,960
other committees like we're kind of
holding to see if there's any more

1615
01:57:38,000 --> 01:57:44,719
comments coming in from you know DBW and
um Harbor Waterfront that kind of stuff.

1616
01:57:42,639 --> 01:57:48,800
So um I think they're passing comments
to Mars you shall pass them to us. So um

1617
01:57:47,360 --> 01:57:54,880
anything that comes out of that we'll
update the report. So it isn't it's an

1618
01:57:51,280 --> 01:57:58,239
like a pretty advanced draft. Um, so, so
that's once we address or get receive

1619
01:57:56,880 --> 01:58:02,800
comments and address them all, then
we'll finalize it.

1620
01:57:59,840 --> 01:58:07,440
» Is this is this up on the website in a
very easily findable place?

1621
01:58:05,360 --> 01:58:09,440
» No, because it's not in a final form.
>> No, the draft. Yeah.

1622
01:58:08,960 --> 01:58:12,639
» No,
>> no, it's it's not complete. So, it would

1623
01:58:11,520 --> 01:58:16,159
not yet be released.
>> So, if we want public comment, why would

1624
01:58:14,480 --> 01:58:19,920
we not It doesn't matter. Why would we
not put it up in state explicitly draft

1625
01:58:18,400 --> 01:58:23,440
looking for public comment?
>> We We haven't invited public comment

1626
01:58:22,159 --> 01:58:28,080
yet. No,
>> we've invited commentary from

1627
01:58:25,760 --> 01:58:29,840
committees, stakeholder stakeholder
committees.

1628
01:58:29,360 --> 01:58:34,400
» Yeah.
>> But I but I think that they started the

1629
01:58:31,920 --> 01:58:40,080
presentation to say that what this whole
process was lacking was public input.

1630
01:58:36,560 --> 01:58:45,360
But that was not part of the scope by
which we could afford to hire them for

1631
01:58:41,760 --> 01:58:50,159
this process. So we need to finalize a
draft and then engage public comment

1632
01:58:49,119 --> 01:58:55,040
» for us to engage
>> for us to engage public comment outside

1633
01:58:51,920 --> 01:59:00,239
of Kleinfelder and so that we can do
something with this information.

1634
01:58:57,040 --> 01:59:05,440
» And what this will inform is any further
MVP grants or other CCM or anyone else

1635
01:59:02,960 --> 01:59:08,480
that might make available funds to
municipalities to go towards

1636
01:59:07,119 --> 01:59:12,560
implementation. These are all things
that are not built into our capital

1637
01:59:09,840 --> 01:59:14,480
plan. Coastal zone management is CZM. I
apologize. And then

1638
01:59:14,000 --> 01:59:16,880
» No, I know
>> MVP. I didn't know if you knew.

1639
01:59:15,760 --> 01:59:21,360
» No, actually we were just talking about
at the CARK meeting um climate action

1640
01:59:18,719 --> 01:59:22,880
meeting this week which was looking at
the uh

1641
01:59:21,920 --> 01:59:27,679
» vulnerability
>> MVP and CZM grants were being combined

1642
01:59:25,920 --> 01:59:31,360
» into a one-stop shop that actually
there's a on September 15th. There's a

1643
01:59:29,520 --> 01:59:34,400
webinar that the group is
>> Yeah, I think EA actually has all their

1644
01:59:32,880 --> 01:59:37,679
grants in a one-stop shop.
>> Yeah, it's not just them. So,

1645
01:59:36,080 --> 01:59:42,560
» but that's a next step type of thing. I
I I'd still like to see um draft or

1646
01:59:40,400 --> 01:59:46,480
otherwise I'm not saying necessarily
that uh the select board has to uh

1647
01:59:44,800 --> 01:59:50,960
engage in public comment, right? That's
a separate story, but um certainly um

1648
01:59:49,040 --> 01:59:56,400
there can be a form for public comment
to the draft. Um and those public

1649
01:59:53,760 --> 02:00:01,119
comments can be possibly included if
necessary into the final report.

1650
02:00:00,000 --> 02:00:05,760
I I don't I don't see why that's
necessarily a bad idea. Yes, I I agree

1651
02:00:03,360 --> 02:00:10,000
that we could have public hearings in
the future for public comment. Of

1652
02:00:07,119 --> 02:00:13,679
course, I I welcome that, but um I I
still don't see why uh a draft report

1653
02:00:12,080 --> 02:00:18,880
shouldn't be available to anyone who
requests it.

1654
02:00:16,159 --> 02:00:23,760
It's a draft. There may be things that
uh aren't seen, aren't known uh by

1655
02:00:21,119 --> 02:00:28,400
people in the community. Uh, and if we
don't do that, at least I'd like to see

1656
02:00:26,239 --> 02:00:32,320
um the two committees that have the most
fundamental uh stake in this, which

1657
02:00:30,560 --> 02:00:36,480
would be Harbor Waterfront and Climate
Action, to have a vote amongst them to

1658
02:00:34,719 --> 02:00:41,119
advise us as advisory committees to
advise us uh whether or not this report

1659
02:00:38,000 --> 02:00:44,480
is complete before we sign off on it.
>> My my committee, Harvard Waterfront, has

1660
02:00:43,040 --> 02:00:48,800
it. So,
>> yeah.

1661
02:00:46,080 --> 02:00:52,960
So, we've been working on this for how
long are we? It's three years now. Does

1662
02:00:50,960 --> 02:00:54,560
anybody know? Do you know, Nick? Do you
know?

1663
02:00:53,199 --> 02:00:58,400
» I don't.
>> He's the least likely here.

1664
02:00:56,560 --> 02:01:04,880
» It was two It was two grant cycles ago
that we were unsuccessful. So, um, so

1665
02:01:01,920 --> 02:01:10,080
probably two years, I think.
>> Well, it was, uh, I think it was the

1666
02:01:07,520 --> 02:01:13,920
the, um, it was around when Doug
Thompson had his magic markers and was

1667
02:01:12,159 --> 02:01:15,599
going to the board because we had to
identify ARPA money.

1668
02:01:14,880 --> 02:01:19,040
» ARPA money.
>> Is that what we we used ARPA money?

1669
02:01:17,119 --> 02:01:21,119
» We did. We did use ARPA money. Yeah. So
I'm saying we're over two and a half

1670
02:01:20,480 --> 02:01:24,719
years.
>> We It's been some time.

1671
02:01:22,639 --> 02:01:28,639
» So the reason I'm asking that is this is
it's been a long process and I just want

1672
02:01:26,960 --> 02:01:32,639
to know what's our target date to get
something going here so that we can be

1673
02:01:30,800 --> 02:01:38,320
applying for some of these grants
because there is new money going in for

1674
02:01:35,599 --> 02:01:43,599
grants. I think um
I know I went to a a meeting with Doug

1675
02:01:41,119 --> 02:01:50,320
and several people at the Fish House and
we were talking to the chair of one of

1676
02:01:47,199 --> 02:01:52,080
the larger committees.
>> Who was it?

1677
02:01:50,960 --> 02:01:57,440
» Seport economic.
>> No, it wasn't Seport Economic. It was um

1678
02:01:56,400 --> 02:02:00,480
somebody else.
>> So, um

1679
02:01:58,719 --> 02:02:05,760
» just the bottom line is there's more
money available now. Um I know Governor

1680
02:02:03,920 --> 02:02:10,480
Healey was putting more money towards
this this endeavor. So, I what what I

1681
02:02:08,719 --> 02:02:15,280
want to find out is when's the date?
What's our date of getting this

1682
02:02:11,840 --> 02:02:20,159
completed and and uh being able to apply
for this these monies? I guess I just

1683
02:02:17,599 --> 02:02:27,119
have two quick on Wayne's public
feedback. Uh

1684
02:02:22,719 --> 02:02:31,199
I I caution that we not that Kleinfelder
can't be wrong or that public can't give

1685
02:02:29,119 --> 02:02:36,000
input, but I don't wish the public to
sway

1686
02:02:34,159 --> 02:02:40,480
necessarily
scientific recommendation.

1687
02:02:38,239 --> 02:02:44,320
There's a there's a community input part
of it which I understand that you know

1688
02:02:42,320 --> 02:02:49,199
they've given a certain level based on
the way the way that they're waiting

1689
02:02:45,679 --> 02:02:54,000
things and if we choose to move that
weighted average to something else

1690
02:02:50,960 --> 02:02:56,800
because of community input that's up to
the community and I have no problem

1691
02:02:55,280 --> 02:03:00,880
doing that. I just don't want to
necessarily

1692
02:02:58,639 --> 02:03:06,560
sway this
sway that in this process. But I do want

1693
02:03:03,920 --> 02:03:10,880
to caution that we don't do what we did
with the peer and go straight to get

1694
02:03:08,960 --> 02:03:16,080
funding that the community doesn't
necessarily wholeheartedly support or

1695
02:03:13,040 --> 02:03:20,159
understand. And I I want to action
things that we

1696
02:03:18,320 --> 02:03:26,480
as a community feel will come to
fruition because I fear, you know, going

1697
02:03:22,960 --> 02:03:30,639
back to multiple entities and asking for
funds and them getting us getting funds

1698
02:03:28,560 --> 02:03:35,119
and then not not being able to sort of
really see something to its finalization

1699
02:03:32,639 --> 02:03:40,880
hurts us in the end for getting funds in
the future. So I want to make sure that

1700
02:03:36,639 --> 02:03:45,040
what we ask for we're going to do. Um so
that's just my two cents.

1701
02:03:43,679 --> 02:03:46,639
But this isn't even asking us to do
anything.

1702
02:03:45,599 --> 02:03:51,520
» No, we're just getting
>> I I just I just I was just cautioning

1703
02:03:48,960 --> 02:03:54,880
going out to get grant funding to do
something when we don't really have a

1704
02:03:53,199 --> 02:03:57,440
path forward about what we are going to
do. That's the part that I

1705
02:03:56,080 --> 02:04:02,239
» So in terms of delivering the final
report, you're waiting our our feedback

1706
02:03:59,440 --> 02:04:07,119
from our appointed advisory committees,
right? So that's something that Marzy

1707
02:04:04,159 --> 02:04:10,400
and I can work with as
>> the representatives to make sure we get

1708
02:04:08,639 --> 02:04:13,760
that back to then to Mary Ellen's point
to get the final.

1709
02:04:11,760 --> 02:04:17,840
» Well, those are advisory committees. So
those advisory committees should be

1710
02:04:16,159 --> 02:04:21,280
advising the select board. Shouldn't it
be the select the select board should be

1711
02:04:19,199 --> 02:04:23,679
the ones off, you know, okaying the
final report, not these advisory

1712
02:04:23,199 --> 02:04:27,760
committees,
>> right? I'm not sure that these advisory

1713
02:04:25,119 --> 02:04:31,760
committees should have direct um I don't
want to say influence or real contact

1714
02:04:29,760 --> 02:04:36,639
with Kleinfelder who's providing us with
the science and the data. I'm not sure

1715
02:04:34,159 --> 02:04:39,679
I'm understanding how the two coingle or
why they would. Right. Because to Mary

1716
02:04:38,159 --> 02:04:41,520
Ellen's point, they're advisory
committees to us.

1717
02:04:41,040 --> 02:04:44,560
» Sure.
>> Right. And it's just Right.

1718
02:04:43,040 --> 02:04:48,000
» So I don't know what the flow of
information is back and forth between

1719
02:04:46,000 --> 02:04:51,840
Kleinfelder and these committees, but I
don't think our committee should be

1720
02:04:49,199 --> 02:04:56,159
actively influencing or involved with
their report. Right. I I want to see the

1721
02:04:54,159 --> 02:04:59,199
scientific facts that tell us what we
need to do

1722
02:04:57,119 --> 02:05:02,560
» from a Kleinfelder perspective.
>> There's more than scientific fact here.

1723
02:05:00,639 --> 02:05:08,080
There's evaluation and analysis based
upon priorities in this report that is

1724
02:05:04,560 --> 02:05:13,119
more that it actually leads to effective
based solutions. So I do think that

1725
02:05:10,639 --> 02:05:19,520
these committees have um a lot of
consideration considering that they

1726
02:05:15,760 --> 02:05:24,320
affect the direct
the direct impact to to everything that

1727
02:05:22,080 --> 02:05:28,880
these committees study on a daily basis
on a on a regular basis.

1728
02:05:26,239 --> 02:05:32,000
» But these committees act as a as to Mary
Ellen's point advisories to the select

1729
02:05:31,520 --> 02:05:37,840
board.
>> Should we not use them as advisories?

1730
02:05:33,679 --> 02:05:41,679
» No. So they should be advising advising
the same thing. We just want to make

1731
02:05:39,599 --> 02:05:43,760
sure we're all working in 10, right?
>> We're just working together here, not on

1732
02:05:43,199 --> 02:05:47,119
separate teams.
>> Right. I think I think one question I

1733
02:05:45,599 --> 02:05:51,920
don't want to see advisory committees
just working with theel Kleinfelder and

1734
02:05:50,480 --> 02:05:56,000
the I don't want to just say Kleinfelder
when you have Woods, but you know

1735
02:05:54,239 --> 02:05:59,199
influence the outcome of the report,
right? That's not what their their

1736
02:05:57,679 --> 02:06:01,760
advice should be coming here,
>> right?

1737
02:05:59,599 --> 02:06:05,599
» So, do you with all of that in mind
because I do think this is four white

1738
02:06:03,679 --> 02:06:09,840
arrows all pointing at the same same
thing. Yeah. like do you two want to

1739
02:06:07,840 --> 02:06:12,800
talk to your committees and you can
>> share something with the board in the

1740
02:06:11,520 --> 02:06:17,040
first meeting in October to give you
time to get something

1741
02:06:14,239 --> 02:06:21,599
» on the calendar with each of them or
>> does that should be a recommendation

1742
02:06:19,040 --> 02:06:24,560
right so my committee um our next
meeting we're taking up discussion of

1743
02:06:23,440 --> 02:06:27,280
the report and the findings
>> great okay

1744
02:06:25,440 --> 02:06:28,480
» perfect and climate action had already
done it

1745
02:06:27,760 --> 02:06:30,800
» to
>> you know if there's anything that they

1746
02:06:29,679 --> 02:06:33,360
want to bring forward to the select
board then

1747
02:06:31,920 --> 02:06:34,880
» I will do that but
>> great

1748
02:06:33,599 --> 02:06:39,760
» that is what we're doing
>> and I have feedback back from Martha

1749
02:06:37,040 --> 02:06:42,159
from client action with that includes
from most of the committee individual

1750
02:06:41,520 --> 02:06:47,040
inputs.
>> Okay. So then I can synthesize or bring

1751
02:06:45,440 --> 02:06:50,719
together all the feedback that you two
gather and you can work with Marzy and I

1752
02:06:49,679 --> 02:06:55,040
directly to get it
>> so that you all can move to a final

1753
02:06:53,119 --> 02:06:58,560
final as opposed to a final draft.
>> Yep. Yeah, sounds good.

1754
02:06:56,000 --> 02:07:01,040
» I just have one quick question on the um
the barrier what do you call those

1755
02:07:00,000 --> 02:07:02,560
barrier things? The
>> flood barriers

1756
02:07:02,320 --> 02:07:05,760
» um
>> deployable

1757
02:07:03,599 --> 02:07:12,880
» temporary barriers. How long have they
been in the market? How long have they

1758
02:07:07,840 --> 02:07:21,320
been used? And how effective are they?
>> You know, over how about in Europe?

1759
02:07:16,000 --> 02:07:21,320
» Um, so we moved the mic. Oh,

1760
02:07:22,239 --> 02:07:29,040
» so the barriers that come to mind I
think are um is it Aquagate? Aquagate.

1761
02:07:27,760 --> 02:07:32,480
Aqua Fence. Thank you very much.
>> Fence.

1762
02:07:30,560 --> 02:07:37,119
» Thanks, John. Yeah, Aquafence is a
popular um brand that's very well

1763
02:07:35,520 --> 02:07:39,520
established in the United States as well
as Europe.

1764
02:07:37,599 --> 02:07:42,560
» How long have they been in the market?
>> I don't know off the top of my head. I

1765
02:07:41,199 --> 02:07:44,960
would have to go to their website.
>> What are they called?

1766
02:07:43,440 --> 02:07:48,400
» Aqua fence.
>> Google it.

1767
02:07:45,679 --> 02:07:53,679
» Um I do know that there
>> I do know that they're used around the

1768
02:07:50,079 --> 02:08:00,079
country um including um you know
valuable assets like hospitals um and

1769
02:07:57,199 --> 02:08:03,040
you know uh you know public buildings.
So it's not some it's not like a

1770
02:08:01,360 --> 02:08:07,440
one-off. I think they use they deploy
them in Boston at um the aquarium stop.

1771
02:08:06,960 --> 02:08:11,520
» Yeah.
>> For the W for the MBTA.

1772
02:08:09,440 --> 02:08:13,599
» Okay. Yeah. At the MBTA station there at
the top of the

1773
02:08:12,159 --> 02:08:17,440
» Yeah, the aquarium.
>> Pictures in the report.

1774
02:08:15,520 --> 02:08:20,719
» They deploy them there. I think Massport
deploys them around some of their

1775
02:08:18,639 --> 02:08:25,119
facilities.
>> Interesting.

1776
02:08:22,400 --> 02:08:29,920
» They first deployed in 2008 at Mount
Vernon.

1777
02:08:26,480 --> 02:08:32,400
» Oh, that's an important asset, Mariel.
Oh, sorry. Not that was not the first

1778
02:08:31,280 --> 02:08:35,679
deployment. That was a notable
deployment.

1779
02:08:34,000 --> 02:08:38,159
» Did you say a notable deployment?
>> A notable deployment.

1780
02:08:36,800 --> 02:08:41,040
» No, Vernon.
>> They're founded 99.

1781
02:08:40,159 --> 02:08:45,280
» Yeah.
>> Oh, thank you. Yeah. And I believe, you

1782
02:08:43,840 --> 02:08:49,679
know, there are different companies.
Aquafen, Aqua Gator is one of them. Um,

1783
02:08:48,079 --> 02:08:53,520
but a lot of them they'll fold up and
they, you know, you can stow them and

1784
02:08:51,760 --> 02:08:56,719
then they you pull them out and then you
can deploy them. And so it's something

1785
02:08:54,880 --> 02:09:00,480
that's like a minimum footprint when
you're not using it is the idea.

1786
02:08:59,679 --> 02:09:04,000
» Okay.
>> And then they linked what I think they

1787
02:09:02,000 --> 02:09:10,000
linked together.
>> I think we estimated for the fish house

1788
02:09:06,560 --> 02:09:13,840
um it would be about 4 hours to deploy
>> if you did a full perimeter.

1789
02:09:11,840 --> 02:09:17,280
» That's a long time.
>> It's long, but it'd be relatively

1790
02:09:15,840 --> 02:09:21,760
infrequent events.
>> And that was based upon the hump the the

1791
02:09:20,880 --> 02:09:24,560
street
>> all the way around the house. all the

1792
02:09:23,599 --> 02:09:27,360
way around.
>> That was the maximum of

1793
02:09:26,639 --> 02:09:30,960
» Well, that's good to know.
>> Based on a two person team, so

1794
02:09:29,520 --> 02:09:35,199
» Oh, Chino's got way more than two
people.

1795
02:09:33,119 --> 02:09:37,360
» Gino can do it faster.
>> Okay,

1796
02:09:36,880 --> 02:09:40,480
» great.
>> So, we have next steps.

1797
02:09:38,800 --> 02:09:43,360
» Next step is you guys are going to give
some feedback. We're going to talk about

1798
02:09:41,599 --> 02:09:49,040
this again in October and Kleinfelder
can go home.

1799
02:09:45,119 --> 02:09:53,119
I I would just urge um if staff Marzy
and Nick if possible to on like I said

1800
02:09:51,440 --> 02:09:58,400
September 15th 11 a.m. there's the
environmental climate onetop grant

1801
02:09:54,800 --> 02:10:04,880
program that was the merging of the um
of the CCM and MVP programs together. Um

1802
02:10:02,880 --> 02:10:10,760
you can maybe that's helpful because
that's our next steps is for future

1803
02:10:07,520 --> 02:10:10,760
grant programming.

1804
02:10:11,040 --> 02:10:15,840
» Okay.
>> Thank you John. the um

1805
02:10:13,679 --> 02:10:18,800
» Thank you very very much.
>> Thank you everyone. Have a good night.

1806
02:10:17,760 --> 02:10:23,360
» Thank you everyone.
>> All right, we're gonna move on to select

1807
02:10:21,679 --> 02:10:25,040
board. Oh, should we go back to the
charter commission?

1808
02:10:24,800 --> 02:10:27,520
» Yeah,
>> let's go back to charter.

1809
02:10:26,880 --> 02:10:33,199
» Oh, yeah.
>> Let's go do that. Oh, yeah. Um, one just

1810
02:10:30,719 --> 02:10:37,599
quick takeaway from this particular
conversation, Nick, is if you could work

1811
02:10:35,360 --> 02:10:43,440
a little bit more in concert getting
this information

1812
02:10:39,520 --> 02:10:46,719
um, to us before it goes out to
>> the public.

1813
02:10:44,159 --> 02:10:49,440
» The public. Um, which is not your fault,
but some other committees had it in

1814
02:10:48,320 --> 02:10:54,239
advance and then it went out in the
papers and we all heard about it. So,

1815
02:10:51,920 --> 02:10:59,679
um, would be great if those advisory
committees could advise us before they

1816
02:10:56,560 --> 02:11:06,199
advise the tides or the item. That would
be helpful. No offense.

1817
02:11:03,199 --> 02:11:06,199
Um,

1818
02:11:06,239 --> 02:11:11,599
all right. Moving back to the charter
review update, which

1819
02:11:10,320 --> 02:11:14,800
» you have to remember the item attends
all these meetings.

1820
02:11:12,719 --> 02:11:21,199
» The
item is present for those who don't.

1821
02:11:17,840 --> 02:11:24,639
» Um, okay. So, we were talking back to
the committee conversation.

1822
02:11:23,920 --> 02:11:27,040
» Um,
>> I think Marielen had

1823
02:11:25,599 --> 02:11:32,880
» Mary Ellen wanted to open up for
discussion post.

1824
02:11:29,119 --> 02:11:38,400
» So, my question is um did a did we ever
get the information from David David on

1825
02:11:36,159 --> 02:11:42,719
on what all the committees were
recommending for charter review?

1826
02:11:39,840 --> 02:11:44,880
» I do not yet have that.
>> I had asked

1827
02:11:43,440 --> 02:11:48,880
» we thought it might be with D.
>> Diane Diane has it. We've been talking

1828
02:11:47,520 --> 02:11:51,360
about this for a while, but has anybody
>> Well, I'm not to answer that.

1829
02:11:49,840 --> 02:11:54,560
» We do not have them right now. No,
that's to answer your question. We know

1830
02:11:52,880 --> 02:11:57,760
where they may be, but no, we do not
have them.

1831
02:11:55,199 --> 02:12:01,679
» Okay. So, the last time we had a charter
review, we had three people.

1832
02:11:59,440 --> 02:12:08,320
» Correct. That's my understanding. Three
people. Peter Spelios,

1833
02:12:03,920 --> 02:12:13,920
Jeff Beerman, and Mary, who Mary's named
after, Mary, the first female commodor

1834
02:12:11,199 --> 02:12:18,560
of the Swamp Scott. So, we had three
people. They went over at public

1835
02:12:15,599 --> 02:12:23,760
meetings. Um, I'm just wondering I I
think there's a couple things here. Is

1836
02:12:21,360 --> 02:12:27,520
are we looking at making this bigger
than what it needs to be? Do we really

1837
02:12:25,760 --> 02:12:32,800
need to have five or seven people? Can
we just go with three people? Um, if

1838
02:12:30,320 --> 02:12:36,800
we've already done the research two
years ago on what each committee feels

1839
02:12:35,199 --> 02:12:43,440
that needs to be adjusted within the
charter of under their purview, are we

1840
02:12:40,480 --> 02:12:48,079
already partially there? I mean, I've
brought it up twice. My biggest concern

1841
02:12:46,000 --> 02:12:53,280
on the charter, other than, you know,
tweaking some of the little stuff that's

1842
02:12:50,480 --> 02:13:00,000
not really relevant. Um, but my biggest
concern is that the moderator chooses

1843
02:12:56,480 --> 02:13:05,119
the finance committee and the
capital improvement committee. And I

1844
02:13:02,079 --> 02:13:12,079
think that that to me is something that
needs to be addressed um

1845
02:13:08,960 --> 02:13:17,199
you know very quickly and not wait for
several years to address it. I mean as

1846
02:13:14,560 --> 02:13:20,639
of right now we have a moderator who is
a moderator is on the capital

1847
02:13:19,040 --> 02:13:25,840
improvement committee and is the
chairman of that committee. And I don't

1848
02:13:24,159 --> 02:13:29,119
think that's good governance. And I
think the number one goal here is to

1849
02:13:27,199 --> 02:13:34,880
make sure we have good governance and
we're following, you know, following a

1850
02:13:31,199 --> 02:13:39,199
charter. So I think my my point here is
I don't want to make this long and drawn

1851
02:13:37,440 --> 02:13:43,679
out if we've already done a good amount
of the work and we already have a decent

1852
02:13:41,440 --> 02:13:47,520
charter. So just want to share my
opinion on this because I want to get to

1853
02:13:45,520 --> 02:13:52,560
making some changes in the charter
sooner rather than later. So is there

1854
02:13:50,159 --> 02:13:58,159
anything else in that comes to the
forefront that anybody else is really

1855
02:13:55,360 --> 02:14:01,599
dug in looking to see in terms of
changes to the charter? Is there

1856
02:13:59,520 --> 02:14:05,360
anything else that comes to mind? We
wouldn't know other than seeing the

1857
02:14:03,119 --> 02:14:09,840
minute seeing the information that David
you know has cor collected. I know that

1858
02:14:08,400 --> 02:14:15,360
from the committees that I was a
liazison to um I know the board of

1859
02:14:12,320 --> 02:14:18,800
assessors had a couple little tweaks um
and that was it. No other committee had

1860
02:14:17,119 --> 02:14:21,679
anything big. Everybody was pretty
>> Did you all engage the community in that

1861
02:14:20,320 --> 02:14:22,719
process as well?
>> No,

1862
02:14:22,239 --> 02:14:27,199
» no,
>> no. I don't think No, no,

1863
02:14:24,880 --> 02:14:32,079
» no. We just we had just opened sort of
the conversation with we should do this.

1864
02:14:29,679 --> 02:14:37,440
Let's reach out to committees and see if
they have feedback first, collect it,

1865
02:14:34,880 --> 02:14:39,599
synthesize it, and then go out to public
comment.

1866
02:14:38,079 --> 02:14:43,360
» How long ago was that?
>> David was chair. So,

1867
02:14:41,280 --> 02:14:46,880
» yeah. So, three two or three almost
three years ago.

1868
02:14:44,079 --> 02:14:52,079
» Yeah. And I would I guess while I hear
your point, imagine this sport's

1869
02:14:49,440 --> 02:14:55,760
comments three years ago,
they're likely today going to change

1870
02:14:53,679 --> 02:15:00,800
because boards change, opinions change,
people in charge change, ideology

1871
02:14:57,920 --> 02:15:04,639
changes, philosophy changes. So I while
I agree that there's an urgency maybe

1872
02:15:02,800 --> 02:15:10,320
for some things and that doesn't mean we
can't propose a charter change as the

1873
02:15:08,480 --> 02:15:13,760
board, can we not?
>> Sure.

1874
02:15:11,679 --> 02:15:19,840
» So yeah, we can. I mean we just it's a
town meeting warrant article and so we

1875
02:15:16,960 --> 02:15:26,639
could engage this fully comprehensive
process now but still suggest a warrant

1876
02:15:23,040 --> 02:15:31,199
article to ch to and say that we
>> believe in the sake of good governance

1877
02:15:28,400 --> 02:15:33,199
that that be needs to happen outside of
this other process.

1878
02:15:32,320 --> 02:15:36,800
» It is an option.
>> So is it fair to say from a process

1879
02:15:35,119 --> 02:15:41,520
perspective we could appoint a local
charter review committee to go do their

1880
02:15:40,000 --> 02:15:45,520
thing and they would come advise the
select board. we would adopt it or

1881
02:15:43,440 --> 02:15:47,679
change it or whatever before it would go
on to the next step in the process.

1882
02:15:46,960 --> 02:15:50,880
» Yes. Yes.
>> Previously, historically in Swanson

1883
02:15:49,280 --> 02:15:55,520
Scott, that has been done with an
article at town meeting

1884
02:15:52,639 --> 02:15:59,280
» to create that review committee.
>> So the first So first you go to town

1885
02:15:57,520 --> 02:16:01,440
meeting to get the committee created.
>> Correct.

1886
02:15:59,840 --> 02:16:05,280
» Then you panel the committee. You seat
the committee and then you I mean to

1887
02:16:04,159 --> 02:16:07,520
Mary Ellen's point that would take
years.

1888
02:16:05,679 --> 02:16:11,119
» I don't think
I don't think the charter says

1889
02:16:09,440 --> 02:16:14,719
» I'm not saying I didn't say the charter.
historically after talking to someone

1890
02:16:13,360 --> 02:16:18,480
who had drafted the charter.
>> Yeah. So

1891
02:16:16,880 --> 02:16:21,119
» he has it under good advisement.
>> But is there a mechanism to

1892
02:16:19,760 --> 02:16:22,800
» We don't have to do that to keep
>> We absolutely don't. You're absolutely

1893
02:16:22,400 --> 02:16:24,000
right.
>> Right.

1894
02:16:23,199 --> 02:16:28,400
» Okay.
>> Yeah. I think Danielle, we can we can we

1895
02:16:26,800 --> 02:16:32,719
can if we all agree that something is
important enough we can put forth a

1896
02:16:30,079 --> 02:16:36,880
warrant article and ask town meeting to
consider the change as we deem it

1897
02:16:35,040 --> 02:16:42,000
necessary. Do we have a legal opinion
about the role of moderator as chair,

1898
02:16:39,519 --> 02:16:45,359
moderator and committee member? Have we
sol we asked for?

1899
02:16:43,040 --> 02:16:48,639
» We did right after he was elected and
>> okay and they have said that's all

1900
02:16:47,280 --> 02:16:51,920
» there's not a conflict of interest.
>> Okay.

1901
02:16:48,960 --> 02:16:55,519
» It's not a it's not against any other
>> no statute

1902
02:16:53,200 --> 02:17:00,960
» any statute there's no statute there.
So to the presentation you had here Nick

1903
02:16:57,359 --> 02:17:05,120
with the anticipated timeline of this
getting started this fall and then by

1904
02:17:03,679 --> 02:17:08,000
the end of the summer we would probably
have

1905
02:17:06,240 --> 02:17:12,880
» the idea with this timeline would be
next a year from this December we were

1906
02:17:10,559 --> 02:17:15,280
coming to town meeting with changes.
>> Okay so

1907
02:17:13,760 --> 02:17:18,800
» unless we felt strongly about
>> 15 months from now.

1908
02:17:16,319 --> 02:17:23,200
» Does this group think that that's too
far?

1909
02:17:19,920 --> 02:17:25,920
» Yeah. I mean not not for every change. I
think I think Yeah. Well, you are the

1910
02:17:25,280 --> 02:17:28,960
chair.
>> I think between Danielle, Maryanne, and

1911
02:17:27,679 --> 02:17:32,559
I, I think that's what we were sort of
hinting at that it feels

1912
02:17:31,040 --> 02:17:35,280
» like a long time. Am I wrong?
>> It does feel like a long time. But I

1913
02:17:34,000 --> 02:17:39,120
mean, I think there are some other
things that I'd like to see evaluated,

1914
02:17:37,280 --> 02:17:46,319
at least studied in the charter, which
is how our board of health is set up um

1915
02:17:42,240 --> 02:17:52,160
and what they have in terms of influence
on their own director. That that's the

1916
02:17:50,000 --> 02:17:55,599
test case for why I said in three years
I think committees have changed because

1917
02:17:54,319 --> 02:17:58,960
three years ago the board of health
might have had

1918
02:17:56,960 --> 02:18:02,800
» no comment but maybe they might have
comment now there are different set of

1919
02:18:00,880 --> 02:18:06,240
folks who might have different thoughts
and feelings. So

1920
02:18:03,840 --> 02:18:08,240
» okay so one area you'd like to see
>> um

1921
02:18:06,800 --> 02:18:11,200
» you have other thoughts. Yeah, there was
another thing I was

1922
02:18:09,599 --> 02:18:13,679
» one thing that Marzy has brought up in
the past is the composition of the

1923
02:18:12,639 --> 02:18:17,679
planning board
>> to for site plan special permit to be

1924
02:18:16,319 --> 02:18:20,000
granted which almost every project in
town needs. You need four out of five

1925
02:18:19,120 --> 02:18:24,880
members.
>> Oftent times over my last two years as

1926
02:18:22,319 --> 02:18:28,160
chair we had one if not more than that
members that were conflicted due to

1927
02:18:27,200 --> 02:18:33,040
proximity
>> since we're a tiny little town. Um so

1928
02:18:30,960 --> 02:18:36,639
the idea was brought up do we can we
explore the idea of alternates that's

1929
02:18:34,639 --> 02:18:41,120
permissible under state law for some
boards planning being depending on the

1930
02:18:39,359 --> 02:18:44,559
town planning being one of them. So long
story short looking at the composition

1931
02:18:42,479 --> 02:18:48,399
of the planning board for that reality.
>> So that's another change. So

1932
02:18:46,639 --> 02:18:49,760
» so why can't we can we do both
simultaneously?

1933
02:18:49,200 --> 02:18:52,319
» Yes we can.
>> Does that satisfy you?

1934
02:18:51,040 --> 02:18:57,599
» Oh yeah.
>> Okay. I just I don't really see a need

1935
02:18:54,800 --> 02:19:02,000
to go to town meeting to ask to approve
a a committee. We could we just approve

1936
02:19:00,479 --> 02:19:06,479
a committee ourselves.
>> Well, could we appoint a committee in

1937
02:19:04,880 --> 02:19:07,359
the next couple of months and then try
and just

1938
02:19:07,040 --> 02:19:10,639
» Yes.
>> We've already advertised like, hey,

1939
02:19:09,599 --> 02:19:15,760
we're getting ready for this. Well,
instead of going to town meeting in

1940
02:19:12,080 --> 02:19:19,200
December of 2027, May of 2027, or is
that time to

1941
02:19:17,040 --> 02:19:22,960
» I don't think that we could reasonably
>> go through a process that looks at

1942
02:19:20,800 --> 02:19:25,599
things that get raised by the community
>> outside of this targeted

1943
02:19:24,719 --> 02:19:28,880
» That's fair
>> initial effort. I think that would be

1944
02:19:28,160 --> 02:19:32,639
too quick.
>> Okay.

1945
02:19:31,359 --> 02:19:36,399
» This isn't something we want to rush.
It's what actually the town that's how

1946
02:19:35,359 --> 02:19:41,760
we operate.
>> So, I think there's a utility to having

1947
02:19:39,280 --> 02:19:45,359
a diverse group appointed to review it
and taking time to review it and

1948
02:19:43,280 --> 02:19:50,319
engaging the public in that review
>> if there's a true desire to do it right.

1949
02:19:47,760 --> 02:19:55,680
If if there really is, you know, the
feeling that the the charter needs um

1950
02:19:53,439 --> 02:19:59,520
significant revamping, edits,
correction, whatever, but if it's really

1951
02:19:57,120 --> 02:20:03,760
a standalone issue that, you know, some
of us have concern over the moderator

1952
02:20:02,399 --> 02:20:06,720
and or you know the
>> we have moderator, planning board, board

1953
02:20:05,359 --> 02:20:08,720
of health, but those are all
>> right.

1954
02:20:07,120 --> 02:20:11,760
» And I'm not saying that's the board. I'm
not saying on behalf of the planning

1955
02:20:10,399 --> 02:20:14,160
board that was a concern brought up. So
they should Yeah. You know, it's

1956
02:20:13,040 --> 02:20:16,160
something that should be explored. Like
I'm sure you're

1957
02:20:14,720 --> 02:20:19,600
» I just think like I think there's a
smaller issue. It's not a big one, but

1958
02:20:18,080 --> 02:20:23,840
you know, standing committees versus
advisory committees. We've had since the

1959
02:20:22,160 --> 02:20:27,120
last charter update like two or three
other committees that have been

1960
02:20:24,880 --> 02:20:31,280
regularly meeting. I'm not saying that
that's I would I would never insist to

1961
02:20:29,120 --> 02:20:34,960
do a charter review because of that, but
it's one of those things that can be

1962
02:20:33,600 --> 02:20:39,280
» I don't think we should look at this as
something that is a bad thing to be

1963
02:20:37,040 --> 02:20:42,640
doing. It's a best practice.
>> It's been 10 years since the community

1964
02:20:40,720 --> 02:20:47,040
has looked at it as a group.
>> So whether it's you all

1965
02:20:44,319 --> 02:20:50,880
» appointed saying not to do it.
>> Well, no. He just said I would never say

1966
02:20:49,200 --> 02:20:54,080
this is a reason to do it. I'm saying
the the the fact that we've come up with

1967
02:20:52,640 --> 02:20:58,560
five topics after saying there's
something targeted that we can get just

1968
02:20:55,760 --> 02:21:00,479
demonstrates that there are likely ideas
to be

1969
02:20:59,120 --> 02:21:04,000
» that are worthy of discussion.
>> And I think once you start thinking

1970
02:21:02,000 --> 02:21:07,439
critically, you'll find other things
>> other things because we haven't thought

1971
02:21:05,280 --> 02:21:12,640
about it critically in 10 years. So
>> when these when these happen do that is

1972
02:21:09,439 --> 02:21:17,359
it uh is there generally a review and
encompassment of the remaining bylaws

1973
02:21:15,359 --> 02:21:20,479
zoning bylaws plan you know
>> no it's a charter review specifically

1974
02:21:19,280 --> 02:21:25,439
the charter
>> yeah just charter

1975
02:21:22,080 --> 02:21:29,040
» a zoning bylaw like rewrite is a whole
other situation I mean we go through

1976
02:21:27,120 --> 02:21:32,800
those occasionally I've seen right I've
seen years where like you know they went

1977
02:21:30,399 --> 02:21:38,000
through and we changed bunch of things
>> manually the last charter review that we

1978
02:21:35,040 --> 02:21:41,439
did they had they had public meetings
constantly and they had their open

1979
02:21:39,680 --> 02:21:46,560
meetings constantly and I remember
through the entire thing um the chair

1980
02:21:44,319 --> 02:21:52,399
saying it was only at one meeting that
they had one person come so and it was

1981
02:21:50,160 --> 02:21:56,000
you know it was publicized
pretty consistently but they did a lot

1982
02:21:54,319 --> 02:22:02,479
of work I mean those three individuals
did a whole lot of work I followed that

1983
02:21:59,680 --> 02:22:06,800
» okay so I guess what I would suggest I
guess the point of impact right now is

1984
02:22:04,800 --> 02:22:09,680
whether we wait to town meeting to ask
them to allow us to appoint the

1985
02:22:08,399 --> 02:22:13,520
committee or if we just do it.
>> We just do it.

1986
02:22:11,920 --> 02:22:17,120
» I would just what would be the point of
go I understand historically but what

1987
02:22:15,760 --> 02:22:21,760
was the point in the past go to town
meeting to ask them

1988
02:22:18,640 --> 02:22:24,640
» they did they vote they're they're
responsible for approving the charter.

1989
02:22:23,200 --> 02:22:27,840
So engaging them in the process
throughout is a way to make sure we're

1990
02:22:26,240 --> 02:22:31,120
building consensus throughout as well.
>> So just building exercise.

1991
02:22:29,920 --> 02:22:34,880
» Yeah. Yeah, they participate in the
formation of the committee, the charge

1992
02:22:32,479 --> 02:22:38,080
and how it's composed.
>> You're you're in a better position at

1993
02:22:36,800 --> 02:22:40,640
the end to say
>> here's the suggestion.

1994
02:22:39,439 --> 02:22:44,000
» Here's where we came from.
>> So that was the framework. They approved

1995
02:22:42,240 --> 02:22:46,399
the creation of the committee and the
composition of it and the appointment

1996
02:22:45,520 --> 02:22:50,640
power of
>> the members. Okay. I

1997
02:22:47,840 --> 02:22:53,520
» mean, it's nothing to say that we can't
it can be different. That's just what's

1998
02:22:52,319 --> 02:22:58,720
been done in the past.
>> Yeah. I would have actually I'd have to

1999
02:22:56,160 --> 02:23:02,640
see his I'd like to see what the article
looked like to appoint that 2016

2000
02:23:01,200 --> 02:23:09,439
committee. I mean I
>> I mean town meeting may have an a a an

2001
02:23:05,680 --> 02:23:14,319
opinion upon who is on that committee.
I'm not just saying by by name but by

2002
02:23:11,680 --> 02:23:18,720
position right they may have um
different opinions upon that. Should I

2003
02:23:16,080 --> 02:23:23,120
and I think there may be some value to
having that heard not to delay it. I

2004
02:23:20,640 --> 02:23:25,120
mean, we're in middle of September. Town
meeting, winter town meeting is when?

2005
02:23:24,640 --> 02:23:28,160
» December.
>> First week of December.

2006
02:23:25,920 --> 02:23:30,640
» First week of December. So, we're only
>> not that far away.

2007
02:23:29,120 --> 02:23:34,240
» Two and a half months out.
>> 10 weeks. There you go.

2008
02:23:32,000 --> 02:23:39,439
» So, even if we took a little time to get
this ready to go,

2009
02:23:36,880 --> 02:23:43,920
not versus going to town meeting,
getting the getting the, you know, the

2010
02:23:41,920 --> 02:23:49,600
the buy in and then getting the
committee done. just get everything

2011
02:23:45,920 --> 02:23:53,920
ready to propose and just lock it in at
the first week of town meeting.

2012
02:23:51,280 --> 02:23:56,160
» Well, let's just
>> I don't

2013
02:23:54,800 --> 02:23:59,040
» I'm just saying if we want buy if we
want buy in from town meeting first

2014
02:23:58,319 --> 02:24:02,240
» I'm just saying
>> agreed.

2015
02:23:59,520 --> 02:24:06,880
» I I we're not looking I don't I think
when I hear we're looking for buyin but

2016
02:24:04,960 --> 02:24:09,920
we need to do a charter review. I mean,
>> that wasn't the buyin part. I was I was

2017
02:24:08,399 --> 02:24:14,160
suggesting it was the buyin of how the
committee is is who's on the who's on

2018
02:24:12,720 --> 02:24:16,479
the committee. The composition.
>> Composition.

2019
02:24:14,640 --> 02:24:19,280
» The composition. That that was the piece
of it.

2020
02:24:17,040 --> 02:24:26,880
» Okay. How about we get the last Warren
article in front of us and then

2021
02:24:22,960 --> 02:24:30,960
distributed and then we give feedback to
um Nick and we can put it on the next

2022
02:24:28,720 --> 02:24:33,280
agenda to talk about.
>> Does that make sense?

2023
02:24:31,760 --> 02:24:35,359
» The last war article
>> that composed

2024
02:24:34,000 --> 02:24:39,439
» the previous one. The previous Oh, the
last one. the previous one I thought

2025
02:24:36,960 --> 02:24:42,560
from 2016 or 15 whenever the last war
article was put forth before town

2026
02:24:40,880 --> 02:24:46,080
meeting. That way we're talking about
something real and not something obscure

2027
02:24:44,399 --> 02:24:48,960
and that way we can have thoughts and
opinions on it

2028
02:24:47,600 --> 02:24:49,600
» and we'll go from there.
>> Yeah.

2029
02:24:49,280 --> 02:24:51,680
» Okay.
>> Great. I like that.

2030
02:24:50,560 --> 02:24:54,319
» Speaking of town meeting.
>> Yes, sir.

2031
02:24:52,319 --> 02:24:56,880
» When hypothetically if this were to go
on a warrant, when do we open the

2032
02:24:55,359 --> 02:24:59,760
warrant for the December town meeting?
That was on a timeline you shared at

2033
02:24:58,240 --> 02:25:03,120
some point, but
>> I want to say it's the the next meeting.

2034
02:25:02,000 --> 02:25:05,359
I think it's the last meeting of this
month and that stays open until October.

2035
02:25:04,960 --> 02:25:07,680
Understood.
>> But it might be the first meeting in

2036
02:25:06,399 --> 02:25:09,359
October. I have to double check that.
>> Okay. But it's in the next meeting or

2037
02:25:09,040 --> 02:25:13,600
two.
>> The real question is when does it

2038
02:25:10,560 --> 02:25:17,920
closed? So it needs to be closed two and
a half weeks prior because there's been

2039
02:25:15,760 --> 02:25:20,399
multiple times where No, even No, we've
changed the timeline.

2040
02:25:19,120 --> 02:25:23,520
» No, it's going to be closed at the very
end of October so that we have time to

2041
02:25:22,160 --> 02:25:25,840
get it printed and out in advance.
>> But we talked about in May last year we

2042
02:25:25,040 --> 02:25:27,439
changed the timeline.
>> When does it have to be closed?

2043
02:25:26,720 --> 02:25:30,080
» End of October.
>> End of October. Okay.

2044
02:25:28,640 --> 02:25:32,560
» I'll I'll bring that slide to the next
meeting so we can just all look at it

2045
02:25:31,439 --> 02:25:33,920
again and be on the same page or I'll
send it around to the five of you at

2046
02:25:33,520 --> 02:25:37,600
least.
>> Okay. Thank you to that.

2047
02:25:35,200 --> 02:25:42,319
» We're going to move now to the
discussion of the select board goals and

2048
02:25:39,359 --> 02:25:46,960
priorities.
>> All right. We uh for those of you who

2049
02:25:44,640 --> 02:25:54,240
don't know,
>> we met on a Saturday, a sunny Saturday

2050
02:25:50,240 --> 02:26:00,560
in June at town hall in an open meeting
to discuss

2051
02:25:56,960 --> 02:26:06,000
select board goals. We gave individual
goals and then we sort of ranked them in

2052
02:26:04,479 --> 02:26:11,840
conversation
um to to create some priorities. And

2053
02:26:08,319 --> 02:26:18,080
what we hope to do is to distribute the
goals and priorities to

2054
02:26:14,640 --> 02:26:24,399
the boards and committees that advise us
as a way to help them advise us in line

2055
02:26:22,160 --> 02:26:28,720
with our goals and priorities. So this
is supposed to help not only color the

2056
02:26:26,880 --> 02:26:36,560
conversations we have here but outside
of here um to make sure that you know

2057
02:26:34,000 --> 02:26:42,080
when boards and committees are moving
they are moving with confidence forward

2058
02:26:39,280 --> 02:26:49,200
in line with our goals.
So

2059
02:26:43,600 --> 02:26:52,800
um we sort of grouped them um into
>> let's see the meeting

2060
02:26:51,040 --> 02:26:57,040
» multiple
priorities. The first one being

2061
02:26:54,399 --> 02:26:58,640
financial um these are all from the meet
the meeting minutes.

2062
02:26:58,160 --> 02:27:02,000
» Okay.
>> Um from it's the fourth tab.

2063
02:27:01,359 --> 02:27:04,560
» Tab number four.
>> The fourth tab.

2064
02:27:03,040 --> 02:27:06,960
» Was that July 7th? No.
>> No. June.

2065
02:27:05,359 --> 02:27:09,840
» June 27th. It's tab number four.
>> Tab number four. Go to tab four.

2066
02:27:09,200 --> 02:27:15,920
» Perfect. Thanks.
>> See tab four.

2067
02:27:12,240 --> 02:27:19,439
Okay. So, um discussion included uh
long-term financial policy review. We

2068
02:27:17,840 --> 02:27:22,960
talked about overtime management that
that being a priority for the board,

2069
02:27:21,280 --> 02:27:29,120
health insurance costs and looking at
OPED and retirement planning. Um we

2070
02:27:26,960 --> 02:27:36,640
talked a lot about financial forecasting
and budget sustainability and long-term

2071
02:27:32,160 --> 02:27:41,840
financial planning. Um I think part of
the uh long-term financial planning

2072
02:27:38,960 --> 02:27:48,399
included having conversations like in
tri chair with um school and other

2073
02:27:46,080 --> 02:27:54,560
making sure that we had theus accurate
and correct and you know all those

2074
02:27:50,560 --> 02:28:01,280
things we had t spoken about at the last
collective tribe board meeting between

2075
02:27:57,760 --> 02:28:04,319
fincom us and um school committee. Um,
we talked about operational and

2076
02:28:02,560 --> 02:28:08,000
organizational priorities including the
charter review. So, we're already um

2077
02:28:06,399 --> 02:28:13,359
coming to fruition at least on one of
the charges. Um, we talked about trying

2078
02:28:10,720 --> 02:28:16,319
to improve municipal operations uh
through internal and external

2079
02:28:14,640 --> 02:28:20,800
communications.
Uh, committee coordination. This whole

2080
02:28:18,640 --> 02:28:25,600
exercise was meant to help in committee
communication of committees but also

2081
02:28:23,280 --> 02:28:31,280
their viewpoints on where they're taking
things. Um, trying to organize legal

2082
02:28:28,960 --> 02:28:35,359
review. I think legal cost was also
under financial priorities and legal

2083
02:28:33,280 --> 02:28:40,399
review sort of grouped into the idea of
how much who's reaching out for legal

2084
02:28:37,600 --> 02:28:43,200
review if it's appropriate what what it
if there's additional costs involved

2085
02:28:41,920 --> 02:28:46,560
who's vetting that before it goes
through.

2086
02:28:44,880 --> 02:28:52,319
Um
we talked a lot about labor relations

2087
02:28:48,640 --> 02:28:55,439
versus municipal operations. Um Wayne
had brought up a I think it was you

2088
02:28:53,760 --> 02:29:00,240
Wayne a great idea about board and
committee orientation and training. Was

2089
02:28:57,200 --> 02:29:04,560
it you? Yes, I think it was you. So,
>> um and that there are a couple really I

2090
02:29:02,880 --> 02:29:07,120
can only think of school committee, but
I don't know if FinCom goes through a a

2091
02:29:06,800 --> 02:29:09,600
training.
>> The assessors have training.

2092
02:29:08,240 --> 02:29:13,520
» The assessors have training. So, there
are some committees right now that do

2093
02:29:10,960 --> 02:29:16,240
have training. Um there are some that do
not.

2094
02:29:13,920 --> 02:29:19,520
» Finom does have a training. You could
take you can do a training thing.

2095
02:29:18,000 --> 02:29:23,439
» The state association does it.
>> Okay. Some of these were the issue.

2096
02:29:21,280 --> 02:29:28,160
Yeah. Some of these were um you know
like you said or um my god who did you

2097
02:29:26,880 --> 02:29:29,120
just say the um
>> planning

2098
02:29:28,640 --> 02:29:31,280
» plan no
>> planning and zoning go through it

2099
02:29:30,319 --> 02:29:32,880
optional training as well
>> assessors

2100
02:29:31,760 --> 02:29:37,120
» assessors that was the one I was
thinking of they have very specific um

2101
02:29:35,600 --> 02:29:40,640
related very specific training related
to their duties I was more talking about

2102
02:29:38,720 --> 02:29:46,399
at a high level of how to organize
meetings just kind of basic leadership

2103
02:29:42,720 --> 02:29:49,520
uh development within our own committees
right

2104
02:29:46,640 --> 02:29:54,160
» how to take minutes how to post minutes
>> uh how to make sure you post on teams

2105
02:29:52,319 --> 02:30:01,520
correctly. How do we make it publicly
accessible?

2106
02:29:56,880 --> 02:30:04,399
» So, um also have uh community governance
improve or committee governance

2107
02:30:02,880 --> 02:30:09,040
improvements which I think have a lot to
do with minutes and making sure that

2108
02:30:06,960 --> 02:30:15,920
agendas are posted with the correct
amount of information on them at the

2109
02:30:10,800 --> 02:30:21,280
appropriate time. Um and then HDC
historic commission coordination

2110
02:30:18,240 --> 02:30:24,080
figuring out historic district
um commission.

2111
02:30:22,800 --> 02:30:27,920
» That might be something for the charter
review.

2112
02:30:25,760 --> 02:30:29,920
» Is that that's a charge? Is this a
charge from the charter? The

2113
02:30:29,280 --> 02:30:32,640
» HTC?
>> That might be something to consider. We

2114
02:30:31,520 --> 02:30:34,800
all had
>> Is it in the charter? Did we create

2115
02:30:34,080 --> 02:30:37,520
that? Or
>> is that a bylaw?

2116
02:30:36,080 --> 02:30:40,479
» I don't know. I have to check.
>> Well, we should talk about that because

2117
02:30:38,960 --> 02:30:44,240
that is something we talked in depth
about whether

2118
02:30:41,920 --> 02:30:49,680
» it's scope, its appropriateness,
>> it's necessity.

2119
02:30:47,040 --> 02:30:54,080
» Um veterans committee, we heard Mr.
dementoto volunteer to uh to help

2120
02:30:52,560 --> 02:30:59,359
coordinate getting some veterans
involved in at least figuring out who's

2121
02:30:56,399 --> 02:31:03,200
available for housing, but I think Wayne
really was talking more about a veterans

2122
02:31:01,920 --> 02:31:08,479
committee, which we used to have in
town.

2123
02:31:04,160 --> 02:31:12,399
» I was I was more looking for um a
committee that could represent the

2124
02:31:10,800 --> 02:31:17,120
continuing needs of Swamp Scouts
veterans. And the the right now um it's

2125
02:31:15,680 --> 02:31:23,120
my understanding we haven't had a an
actual veteran survey since 1991. It's

2126
02:31:20,080 --> 02:31:28,880
my understanding. Um and I'd like to see
uh you know the needs of the veterans of

2127
02:31:25,920 --> 02:31:33,120
different ages and different
military scenarios over time have

2128
02:31:30,880 --> 02:31:39,280
changed and the support needs have
changed and um I I feel that we're kind

2129
02:31:37,200 --> 02:31:43,760
of walking a little blind. M
>> um so um I don't think that committee is

2130
02:31:42,160 --> 02:31:48,720
just something you put together. I think
uh it needs to come kind of kind of come

2131
02:31:46,319 --> 02:31:55,280
from a grassroots
from from the bottom up. Um so I've

2132
02:31:52,960 --> 02:32:00,000
talked Mr. Deto, I've talked to a couple
other people in the community about

2133
02:31:57,280 --> 02:32:05,040
trying to get some information, trying
to get some people that might be

2134
02:32:01,439 --> 02:32:08,319
interested um into eventually I'd love
to see a formal advisory committee

2135
02:32:06,800 --> 02:32:13,439
formed. I don't think this is something
you can do overnight, but it's something

2136
02:32:09,840 --> 02:32:18,479
I'd like to definitely target.
>> Great.

2137
02:32:15,760 --> 02:32:22,479
» But hold on a second. We absolutely have
to have some type of a committee

2138
02:32:20,479 --> 02:32:26,880
together. Now, whether or not it's Mr.
Demento is going to run an ad hoc

2139
02:32:24,800 --> 02:32:31,040
committee, but we we have to make a
decision on an on what are we going to

2140
02:32:29,359 --> 02:32:36,319
do as far as putting together a team of
people that will be able to advise and

2141
02:32:34,240 --> 02:32:38,399
find veterans who would qualify for
veterans housing.

2142
02:32:37,600 --> 02:32:40,640
» Yeah, I think
>> I mean, isn't that a charge of the

2143
02:32:39,760 --> 02:32:44,560
veterans agent?
>> I was going to ask that question. Yeah.

2144
02:32:42,319 --> 02:32:47,920
» Right. Isn't he wouldn't he spearhead
something like that?

2145
02:32:45,439 --> 02:32:50,800
» So, I guess there's a difference between
and this was explained when we first

2146
02:32:49,520 --> 02:32:53,760
started to talk about this project.
There's a difference between the

2147
02:32:52,319 --> 02:32:59,520
information available to the veterans
agent and the information that would be

2148
02:32:55,359 --> 02:33:05,680
available to BBH and getting veterans in
the housing. Um, so there is some

2149
02:33:02,960 --> 02:33:11,120
information that that they cannot share
with BBH for privacy reasons and things

2150
02:33:08,160 --> 02:33:14,720
like that. So I I thought what the first
charge was when we had talked about this

2151
02:33:12,560 --> 02:33:18,800
and this was like 18 months ago was that
once we were on this path of this

2152
02:33:16,800 --> 02:33:23,520
happening, BBH was going to get us some
information involving you know the

2153
02:33:21,040 --> 02:33:28,960
calculation of AMI and how and that way
we could bring it to the veterans agent

2154
02:33:27,200 --> 02:33:33,040
understand how they're calculating it
and how they're what the criteria and

2155
02:33:31,280 --> 02:33:38,080
conditions are so that the veterans
agent can help us along with some ad hoc

2156
02:33:35,200 --> 02:33:42,640
members to identify help calculate
identify and then apply.

2157
02:33:40,000 --> 02:33:48,880
» So, we're going to have people, random
people in Swampscott as members of a

2158
02:33:45,120 --> 02:33:51,600
committee with access to information
that is confidential.

2159
02:33:51,040 --> 02:33:54,720
» No, no,
>> no. So,

2160
02:33:52,880 --> 02:33:58,720
» no, they just they just No. They just
need to understand how BBH needs to tell

2161
02:33:57,280 --> 02:34:02,160
us how to calculate it.
>> Yeah.

2162
02:33:59,120 --> 02:34:06,399
» And we can provide that information to
veterans and we could through the

2163
02:34:04,560 --> 02:34:10,240
veterans agent. they I don't they
already have access to it to not their

2164
02:34:08,880 --> 02:34:15,120
income or anything like that but the
list of people we income driven

2165
02:34:13,439 --> 02:34:17,040
» but it's just the AMI parameters that
you have to meet and stay under that

2166
02:34:16,640 --> 02:34:20,240
we're
>> yeah I'm not advertising to the AMI just

2167
02:34:19,120 --> 02:34:22,960
» this committee is just hoping to get
more people

2168
02:34:21,040 --> 02:34:27,520
» this is more of a marketing market
>> I think you're all saying the same thing

2169
02:34:24,479 --> 02:34:30,800
in different ways that it's it's a it's
a group of residents and citizens that

2170
02:34:29,920 --> 02:34:34,960
can
>> that can help advocate along with Mike

2171
02:34:32,880 --> 02:34:38,080
and the other assistants that work in
his office in Lynn

2172
02:34:36,080 --> 02:34:41,040
» to make sure everyone that should be el
should be eligible or that we believe is

2173
02:34:39,840 --> 02:34:43,439
eligible knows about it.
>> Yeah.

2174
02:34:41,359 --> 02:34:46,080
» The individual can then make their own
determination whether or not they are or

2175
02:34:44,960 --> 02:34:48,160
whether or not they're interested,
>> right?

2176
02:34:46,399 --> 02:34:51,520
» But it's sort of it's all these pieces
together is how we will

2177
02:34:50,160 --> 02:34:55,280
» do what you want and what you want and
what like it's all together. I mean

2178
02:34:53,520 --> 02:35:02,319
there's also advisory in terms of what
services could be created or or provided

2179
02:34:58,399 --> 02:35:06,240
at the the new center that we're
eventually going to be having. What I

2180
02:35:04,720 --> 02:35:11,520
don't want to see happen is what
happened at Michon. At Michon the I

2181
02:35:09,120 --> 02:35:14,880
think that Benet
put out a great effort in getting the

2182
02:35:13,359 --> 02:35:19,280
message out. I mean they were constantly
at the farmers market talking to people

2183
02:35:17,200 --> 02:35:24,240
about how to apply to get into Michan.
They they were sending out flyers. They

2184
02:35:21,840 --> 02:35:29,439
did a lot of stuff. However, we had a
small a very small amount of people who

2185
02:35:26,960 --> 02:35:35,040
ended up getting into Michan which
didn't make any sense after we ran the

2186
02:35:31,359 --> 02:35:38,800
numbers. So, I just don't want to I
don't want to I don't want to leave it

2187
02:35:37,200 --> 02:35:42,720
out there. I don't want to be vulnerable
to having a mistake made here. I mean,

2188
02:35:41,120 --> 02:35:46,319
this is veterans housing, and I want to
make sure we have every opportunity to

2189
02:35:44,479 --> 02:35:51,040
get veterans in there.
>> I guess um

2190
02:35:48,000 --> 02:35:56,319
» Well, how do you equivalate equival
I'm trying to understand how you're

2191
02:35:51,920 --> 02:35:59,840
linking that to the to the Michan BBH?
>> So, what So, the question is what

2192
02:35:58,080 --> 02:36:03,520
happened? We were we actually were here
talking about it at the select board

2193
02:36:01,680 --> 02:36:08,560
meeting when when we were first even
thinking about um going into going to

2194
02:36:06,560 --> 02:36:13,359
veterans housing. One of the concerns
that we had and actually Peter was here

2195
02:36:11,439 --> 02:36:17,120
um when I had I had the statistics to
show really what happened and it was a

2196
02:36:15,359 --> 02:36:22,399
real question like with all that effort
that went out why is it only a small

2197
02:36:20,319 --> 02:36:27,920
handful of Swamp Scout residents got
into the Michan and so through those

2198
02:36:25,760 --> 02:36:30,960
conversations we had decided we don't
want to be in that position again. We

2199
02:36:29,280 --> 02:36:35,920
want to make sure we do a really good
job of making sure that people come and

2200
02:36:33,920 --> 02:36:39,840
and apply and figure out what they have
to do. And in a conversation I had with

2201
02:36:37,840 --> 02:36:45,439
Kim Martin Epstein, there are things
that you can do to manage your assets.

2202
02:36:42,880 --> 02:36:50,560
So, one of the problems with Michon was
a resident of Swampscott could have x

2203
02:36:48,160 --> 02:36:54,479
amount of dollars worth of asset and
make and be bringing in a small amount

2204
02:36:52,319 --> 02:36:58,560
of money income on social security, but
because of that asset, it ended up

2205
02:36:56,240 --> 02:37:02,240
disqualifying them or or what happened
quite a bit was people felt that because

2206
02:37:00,240 --> 02:37:05,680
they had that asset, they didn't even
apply when they could have applied.

2207
02:37:04,319 --> 02:37:11,439
» And there are also things that you can
do, I'm sorry, you can do in advance to

2208
02:37:08,720 --> 02:37:15,600
protect that asset or, you know, put in
a different position. So you do qualify

2209
02:37:13,200 --> 02:37:20,720
for that. So you know for example if you
have a veteran you have a veteran who

2210
02:37:17,920 --> 02:37:26,160
was on the state police state police
officer and he makes a decent pension

2211
02:37:23,600 --> 02:37:30,479
now would he qualify or how do we get
him to qualify? How do we help him

2212
02:37:28,319 --> 02:37:34,479
legally to get him to qualify? So I
don't know that we can help.

2213
02:37:32,080 --> 02:37:38,240
» We can by getting information.
>> That's what I was ineloquently saying

2214
02:37:36,240 --> 02:37:43,920
earlier like getting the in getting the
conditions from BBH and understanding

2215
02:37:41,040 --> 02:37:47,359
either through um the help of Kim Martin
Epstein or other

2216
02:37:45,600 --> 02:37:52,399
» people who have far more information on
this than we do. How can we help people

2217
02:37:50,319 --> 02:37:57,920
get into a position that when it comes
time to apply, they can be certain that

2218
02:37:55,120 --> 02:38:02,479
they meet the parameters and they can,
you know, be confident that their

2219
02:37:59,920 --> 02:38:05,680
application will be considered. That was
the conversation we had initially, not

2220
02:38:04,000 --> 02:38:08,640
necessarily, you know, trying to get
into their confidential information or

2221
02:38:07,200 --> 02:38:12,479
anything like that, but advocating for
folks so that they know if they have a

2222
02:38:10,479 --> 02:38:15,200
large asset like a home, how they put
it, how how they can

2223
02:38:14,640 --> 02:38:19,280
» secure it,
>> secure it in a way that still allows

2224
02:38:17,120 --> 02:38:20,560
them to be able to apply to the
situation.

2225
02:38:19,840 --> 02:38:24,000
» Okay,
>> that's that's what

2226
02:38:21,760 --> 02:38:28,560
» just pushing out the information. So we
have to get the information first and

2227
02:38:25,520 --> 02:38:32,399
then we have to simultaneously assemble
people who are reliable and giving out

2228
02:38:30,960 --> 02:38:37,120
the information correctly.
>> Wayne, your point in addition to all of

2229
02:38:34,560 --> 02:38:41,920
that was to have this committee do
advise a select board on programmatic

2230
02:38:38,960 --> 02:38:44,160
things and support issues the ongoing
needs of the veteran

2231
02:38:42,880 --> 02:38:47,439
» community. Not just for the housing
project. The housing project

2232
02:38:46,399 --> 02:38:49,760
committee is different.
>> Yeah. Okay. Got it.

2233
02:38:49,359 --> 02:38:52,160
» Uh
>> I think the committee we're talking

2234
02:38:51,120 --> 02:38:56,240
about is temporary.
>> Yes. you know, it's just a task uh task

2235
02:38:54,560 --> 02:38:57,040
committee. Wayne's committee is, you
know,

2236
02:38:56,399 --> 02:38:59,439
» ongoing.
>> Yeah. I'd like to be a standing standing

2237
02:38:58,560 --> 02:39:03,600
committee.
>> Yeah.

2238
02:39:00,720 --> 02:39:06,479
» Um again, moving on to public safety and
enforcement. Some of these things we've

2239
02:39:05,120 --> 02:39:10,240
already talked about and we will
continue to talk about, but parking

2240
02:39:08,000 --> 02:39:14,479
enforcement, traffic safety, pedestrian
safety. Mary Ellen has brought up, you

2241
02:39:12,800 --> 02:39:17,439
know, fire and ambulance response and
infrastructure.

2242
02:39:16,160 --> 02:39:21,040
you know, when we had talked about
whether the roads were wide enough and

2243
02:39:18,960 --> 02:39:24,160
things like that, that's, you know, part
of what we're talking about there.

2244
02:39:22,240 --> 02:39:28,960
Illegal dumping.
Um, infrastructure priorities, we had

2245
02:39:27,120 --> 02:39:32,640
discussed, you know, obviously there's
some infrastructure improvements that

2246
02:39:30,720 --> 02:39:37,439
need to be made as Kleinfelder sort of
discussed today. Water infrastructure,

2247
02:39:34,880 --> 02:39:41,520
water harbor, waterfront development. We
talked about beach concession areas, um,

2248
02:39:40,160 --> 02:39:45,600
harbor management, which we talked about
with Kleinfelder.

2249
02:39:43,439 --> 02:39:50,640
Um parking we has been a topic of
conversation in very recent history. Um

2250
02:39:48,560 --> 02:39:54,880
parking management you know if we need
infrastructure improvements for that. Um

2251
02:39:52,880 --> 02:40:02,080
future development of parking and the
financial impacts thereof. Um

2252
02:39:58,399 --> 02:40:07,120
on the economic development we all
a agreed

2253
02:40:03,760 --> 02:40:11,920
without delay that Hawthorne Hadley were
you know developments that we properties

2254
02:40:08,960 --> 02:40:15,359
that we needed to see developed. Um, the
church parking lot came up in

2255
02:40:13,280 --> 02:40:20,560
conversation. I'm sorry, that would be
the St. John's Church parking lot. Um,

2256
02:40:18,640 --> 02:40:24,880
establishment of a potential economic
development committee. We talked about

2257
02:40:23,040 --> 02:40:28,800
that. We didn't really land, but
something we can continue to talk about

2258
02:40:26,560 --> 02:40:34,319
here. Um, developing a long-term
economic development plan, redevelopment

2259
02:40:31,680 --> 02:40:38,160
of unused town- owned properties that we
had a long conversation about that. And

2260
02:40:36,240 --> 02:40:42,560
then the preservation and redevelopment
of historic properties.

2261
02:40:40,880 --> 02:40:47,040
um
let's see community priorities,

2262
02:40:44,800 --> 02:40:50,240
community engagement, community trust,
communication with residents and the

2263
02:40:48,880 --> 02:40:58,560
support from the boards and committees
to facilitate that and more. Um I think

2264
02:40:55,120 --> 02:41:03,520
you know we we are in a rebuild process
for engagement and trust and it's really

2265
02:41:00,800 --> 02:41:09,840
important in that to be to try to be
transparent as we can be and communicate

2266
02:41:07,040 --> 02:41:14,560
as much as we can and um it would be
helpful from the community to all one of

2267
02:41:13,200 --> 02:41:18,080
you that's listening but hopefully lots
of people are listening on YouTube and I

2268
02:41:16,000 --> 02:41:23,920
can't see you. Um, if you have
thoughtful ideas, contact Shannon,

2269
02:41:20,960 --> 02:41:31,520
contact Civic Plus, contact any one of
us, call Mary Ellen, call me. Um, to say

2270
02:41:28,800 --> 02:41:36,479
we're not engaging enough is okay. To
say you could engage better by doing X

2271
02:41:34,160 --> 02:41:43,280
is better, right? And that's helpful and
we can action that. Um

2272
02:41:40,720 --> 02:41:47,760
to continue on the communication route,
charter review communication, committee

2273
02:41:45,120 --> 02:41:53,040
communications, public messaging, annual
reports is really something that's

2274
02:41:49,439 --> 02:41:55,680
fallen off the radar for a a lot of
boards and committees. There's

2275
02:41:54,479 --> 02:41:58,399
» Don't they get filed with the clerk
every year?

2276
02:41:56,399 --> 02:42:02,960
» Well, they're supposed to, Ted. I don't
know that every board and committee has

2277
02:42:00,000 --> 02:42:07,280
been doing it. under our former clerk,
there was a delay with some annual

2278
02:42:05,680 --> 02:42:09,439
reports and that's being
>> remedied by our current clerk.

2279
02:42:08,880 --> 02:42:13,439
» Understood.
>> So maybe we will get back into the swing

2280
02:42:11,200 --> 02:42:18,000
of annual reports and
>> understanding why they're important, how

2281
02:42:15,040 --> 02:42:23,920
they report out to the community and
um we've gone through some website

2282
02:42:19,920 --> 02:42:28,240
improvements. I bet there'll be more um
but we did talk a little bit about that

2283
02:42:26,160 --> 02:42:33,840
and then better public engagement. We
are always looking for ways to not be

2284
02:42:31,280 --> 02:42:37,359
the ones sitting up here, right? Like we
want to be here right now, but like

2285
02:42:35,520 --> 02:42:42,800
there there's a whole version of the
public that should be engaged. And if

2286
02:42:39,680 --> 02:42:48,479
you want to sit in my seat, happy to
discuss it with you. Um so the action

2287
02:42:46,000 --> 02:42:53,359
items we left with are uh reviewing the
charter, which is great because we're

2288
02:42:50,960 --> 02:42:57,840
talking about it now. um developing a
long-term financial plan, evaluating the

2289
02:42:56,399 --> 02:43:01,680
Hawthorne and the church parking lot
opportunities. We're sort of in the

2290
02:43:00,160 --> 02:43:07,359
midst of that and we'd like to get
closer towards the end of that.

2291
02:43:04,319 --> 02:43:12,000
Continuing OPED analysis,
um reviewing the health insurance costs,

2292
02:43:10,000 --> 02:43:16,399
uh evaluating a parking management
strategy. We started that which is

2293
02:43:13,680 --> 02:43:21,600
great. Um we had been talking about that
and now I think it's coming to you know

2294
02:43:18,240 --> 02:43:26,640
closer to fruition in our last meeting.
developing

2295
02:43:23,120 --> 02:43:31,200
economic development framework,
reviewing the committee structure and

2296
02:43:28,240 --> 02:43:35,359
the orientation process, continuing with
infrastructure planning like our

2297
02:43:33,040 --> 02:43:40,720
conversation today with Kleinfelder and
others, but also, you know, we had a big

2298
02:43:38,080 --> 02:43:47,439
push recently um in the last couple of
years to not just talk about all the

2299
02:43:44,080 --> 02:43:52,080
things we've failed to do, but how we
safeguard the things we're doing now. So

2300
02:43:50,240 --> 02:43:58,000
you know especially on the beaches we've
we had a lot of

2301
02:43:55,120 --> 02:44:02,560
long time of failure of not doing enough
and now we are doing it. So how do we

2302
02:44:00,000 --> 02:44:05,279
simultaneously continue to make
improvements and safeguard the

2303
02:44:03,920 --> 02:44:11,520
improvements we've made? So we talk a
lot about mitigating future issues and

2304
02:44:08,160 --> 02:44:17,200
um making sure that that is cod like
codified in some way um in capital and

2305
02:44:15,680 --> 02:44:24,000
then improvement to community
communication strategies.

2306
02:44:19,840 --> 02:44:28,560
So I think for our next steps we sort of
have to figure out short, medium,

2307
02:44:25,520 --> 02:44:33,760
long-term projects and if there are de
uh departmental folks who can help us

2308
02:44:31,040 --> 02:44:38,880
facilitate some of them and then try to
implement a timeline because

2309
02:44:36,880 --> 02:44:42,960
that'll hold us accountable.
>> There's a lot of stuff on this list,

2310
02:44:41,359 --> 02:44:46,240
» right? And I I
>> Can you speak into the mic?

2311
02:44:44,560 --> 02:44:51,520
» Oh, sorry. There's a lot of stuff on
this list. Can you hear me now, Nick?

2312
02:44:48,399 --> 02:44:56,720
» Get closer. like you're a rock star
wonky setup here tonight tables.

2313
02:44:54,960 --> 02:45:03,520
So, what does success look like? I mean,
h how are we really judging by the la

2314
02:45:00,960 --> 02:45:08,880
large laundry list of things? I don't
want this to just be u an exercise in

2315
02:45:07,279 --> 02:45:13,359
futility, right? I mean, how do we
really assess

2316
02:45:10,800 --> 02:45:16,319
how well we've done, how how close to
goal we're getting? What does it look

2317
02:45:14,800 --> 02:45:21,040
like? I mean, what does completion look
like? you know, so I'm struggling just

2318
02:45:18,640 --> 02:45:25,279
looking at this, you know, all of this
this list of things. You know, it maybe

2319
02:45:23,840 --> 02:45:28,720
we need to organize it a little bit
more. You know, maybe it needs to be

2320
02:45:27,279 --> 02:45:33,760
broken up short-term, midterm,
long-term. Um, you know, I'd like to see

2321
02:45:31,520 --> 02:45:36,560
things completed, checked off. What is
what does that look like? Right.

2322
02:45:35,359 --> 02:45:39,279
» I I think we need a little more
definition

2323
02:45:38,080 --> 02:45:41,920
in order to do that.
>> Yeah.

2324
02:45:39,760 --> 02:45:45,040
» Um, we talked a lot of these are very
very high level. Um, they have

2325
02:45:43,520 --> 02:45:49,040
subcategories to each one of them.
>> Yeah. Um, and maybe we can start to

2326
02:45:46,960 --> 02:45:54,240
stretch that out a little bit more so
that we can give some very clear

2327
02:45:50,800 --> 02:46:01,680
instruction to those that would be
responsible for um both evaluating and

2328
02:45:57,279 --> 02:46:04,399
and and exercising or executing the uh
the the the

2329
02:46:03,680 --> 02:46:08,560
plan,
>> right? It's like some duplication that

2330
02:46:07,040 --> 02:46:12,160
» Yeah, there's some crossover for sure.
>> There is, but it was categorized,

2331
02:46:10,160 --> 02:46:16,960
» right? There are some things we we
really don't have direct control over.

2332
02:46:13,920 --> 02:46:21,680
we the five of us annual reports, you
know, u website improvements, those are

2333
02:46:19,200 --> 02:46:26,640
not things we could actually fix or
complete, right? So maybe we just reorg

2334
02:46:24,640 --> 02:46:28,880
this a little bit so it's a little more
actionable.

2335
02:46:28,560 --> 02:46:31,439
» Yeah,
>> sure. I if can I jump in,

2336
02:46:31,040 --> 02:46:35,760
» please?
>> Please. I I think that any of these

2337
02:46:34,240 --> 02:46:42,560
require staff,
>> so it's not just the website or any one

2338
02:46:38,240 --> 02:46:46,800
of them. Um, so we're happy to give you
something or to have you all meet again

2339
02:46:44,080 --> 02:46:49,279
and come up with it on you tell us which
way you want to do that and we're happy

2340
02:46:48,160 --> 02:46:51,359
to move forward
>> right

2341
02:46:49,680 --> 02:46:55,840
» in that framework. It could be that we
bucket it by department head or topic,

2342
02:46:55,279 --> 02:46:59,120
you know,
>> so that we can identify things that live

2343
02:46:57,600 --> 02:47:02,399
in a few different areas as Wayne just
mentioned,

2344
02:46:59,840 --> 02:47:05,840
» right? um or that we identify needing
significant detail to get to what you

2345
02:47:05,200 --> 02:47:09,439
want
>> because the action items are things that

2346
02:47:07,439 --> 02:47:13,200
are a little more specific
>> whereas the larger list you know

2347
02:47:11,439 --> 02:47:18,479
provides a lot of context in a framework
but to get from here to implementation

2348
02:47:16,319 --> 02:47:20,960
» we would want more input from all of you
>> right because there's good there's a lot

2349
02:47:19,920 --> 02:47:25,200
of good stuff here I don't mean to say
that there isn't I just want it to be

2350
02:47:23,040 --> 02:47:29,279
thoughtful and really have impact so
that we do complete these things that we

2351
02:47:27,359 --> 02:47:34,479
say are priorities so I think
>> we just need a little bit more help.

2352
02:47:31,359 --> 02:47:41,279
» Could I suggest then that the five of us
respond back to this or maybe Nick, you

2353
02:47:38,479 --> 02:47:45,760
can set a template for us that we can
give you feedback as to what those

2354
02:47:43,760 --> 02:47:50,960
details are and then you consolidate
them maybe. Does that sound like a

2355
02:47:47,520 --> 02:47:53,520
reasonable second next step
>> and then we can review?

2356
02:47:52,000 --> 02:47:57,680
» Yeah, I mean otherwise we can bucket
them by category

2357
02:47:54,880 --> 02:48:00,160
» category or or department sort of.
>> Yeah. And then

2358
02:47:59,600 --> 02:48:04,560
» or you can
>> you can email me, I can meet with you.

2359
02:48:02,160 --> 02:48:10,000
It doesn't we we will take feedback in
any form. So

2360
02:48:05,760 --> 02:48:14,160
» yeah, I think what we have what speaking
from prior years, we have all come up

2361
02:48:12,160 --> 02:48:17,840
with
Marielen, correct me if I'm wrong, we

2362
02:48:15,760 --> 02:48:22,960
sort of all came up with our own version
of priorities and then we would all

2363
02:48:20,800 --> 02:48:26,000
scatter and do our own things, right?
And some people were more successful

2364
02:48:24,720 --> 02:48:31,200
than others
>> on getting those things to fruition. And

2365
02:48:28,479 --> 02:48:35,920
so I think what we're trying to do is
help Nick and other department heads

2366
02:48:34,399 --> 02:48:41,120
know these this is the will of the
board, not just an individual member of

2367
02:48:38,080 --> 02:48:45,840
the board or a small group of the board,
but this is more of these are the things

2368
02:48:43,920 --> 02:48:49,760
we should be focusing on. And sure,
other things matter, but the this is

2369
02:48:47,600 --> 02:48:53,600
what we've sort of stamped right now as
priorities,

2370
02:48:50,960 --> 02:48:59,680
» right? So, yeah, I think if we could
boil it down a little bit further,

2371
02:48:56,640 --> 02:49:03,439
um, that is probably going to be the
best way to action it.

2372
02:49:01,200 --> 02:49:08,640
» Yep. So, maybe Nick, you want to take a
stab at maybe just grouping it,

2373
02:49:05,600 --> 02:49:11,040
organizing it by category and, you know,
soliciting feedback?

2374
02:49:09,680 --> 02:49:15,760
» Yeah. Or what?
>> Sure.

2375
02:49:13,200 --> 02:49:17,840
» Like I said, I'm happy to email and have
you write it or we can

2376
02:49:17,120 --> 02:49:20,640
» Yeah.
>> sit down individually to get that

2377
02:49:19,120 --> 02:49:21,680
feedback. Okay,
>> great.

2378
02:49:21,040 --> 02:49:26,960
» Great.
>> Okay,

2379
02:49:24,160 --> 02:49:31,080
perfect.
Select board time.

2380
02:49:32,080 --> 02:49:42,000
Well, I can go first. I just want to uh
thank Nate, um Ameiliano,

2381
02:49:39,200 --> 02:49:45,680
Joe, and Ethan for running in at the
last minute and being able to put on

2382
02:49:43,760 --> 02:49:49,840
tonight's meeting. We had a lot of
difficult technical issues in the

2383
02:49:47,840 --> 02:49:52,800
beginning. So, if you weren't here, you
missed a

2384
02:49:51,840 --> 02:49:55,439
» circus.
>> Swap out of microphones.

2385
02:49:54,000 --> 02:50:02,399
» They did a great job and once again,
they're bringing to us. Um, I also uh

2386
02:50:00,479 --> 02:50:08,640
want to
bring to the attention of the town that

2387
02:50:04,080 --> 02:50:14,160
the Swam uh what is it? Swamcott
Performance Center is now open. They

2388
02:50:11,040 --> 02:50:18,479
opened on Saturday, which was nice. and
um think they're going to be open every

2389
02:50:15,680 --> 02:50:21,520
day now and we've got things moving
along and I just

2390
02:50:20,080 --> 02:50:28,000
» swaps center for performing arts
>> swaps center for performing arts right

2391
02:50:24,160 --> 02:50:33,760
or aka the old farm um things are going
on over there um we all received an

2392
02:50:30,240 --> 02:50:38,560
email on um we all received an email
from a resident we we received many

2393
02:50:36,479 --> 02:50:43,840
emails from residents but the one email
that really stuck out for me this week

2394
02:50:40,399 --> 02:50:47,920
was a resident who was commenting on um
the first day of school with the seniors

2395
02:50:45,840 --> 02:50:53,840
driving around and hanging out of
vehicles and putting making it um some

2396
02:50:51,920 --> 02:50:59,600
decisions that could have put them into
a pretty bad situation. And it seems

2397
02:50:57,600 --> 02:51:03,439
like that goes on every single year. And
I I would just like to ask Nick if you

2398
02:51:01,520 --> 02:51:07,920
could have a conversation with the
superintendent and the chief of police

2399
02:51:05,279 --> 02:51:12,880
and maybe there can be an organized
parade or something on the first day of

2400
02:51:10,319 --> 02:51:18,080
school to to um make sure that the
seniors get the attention and the the

2401
02:51:16,399 --> 02:51:24,399
fun that they have on the first day
going to school and also keep them safe.

2402
02:51:21,279 --> 02:51:28,080
But when the superintendent says this is
something that he's concerned about, the

2403
02:51:25,840 --> 02:51:32,640
principal says she's concerned about it,
the chief says he's concerned about it,

2404
02:51:29,680 --> 02:51:37,600
I just I'd like to see some action being
taken so that the kids don't miss out on

2405
02:51:35,120 --> 02:51:44,479
a great experience and we're not sitting
here a year from now with a tragedy on

2406
02:51:39,920 --> 02:51:50,240
our hands. So, um, that's all I have to
request and report.

2407
02:51:48,080 --> 02:51:53,920
» Anybody? Danielle, Ted, Wayne?
>> No. Good.

2408
02:51:51,680 --> 02:51:58,160
» At the last meeting, I made a comment
about transit oriented developments. My

2409
02:51:56,319 --> 02:52:02,319
comment was strictly in relation to the
permitting of that through the zoning

2410
02:52:00,240 --> 02:52:09,600
package that was done through a 40B
application, not an MBTA 3A zoning

2411
02:52:05,279 --> 02:52:13,040
package, not a 161A zoning package or uh
any of the other transit oriented

2412
02:52:11,279 --> 02:52:16,080
developments that statute allows.
Financing was not what I was

2413
02:52:14,479 --> 02:52:19,600
insinuating. So, I apologize if there
was any confusion. Marielle and I

2414
02:52:18,000 --> 02:52:24,960
apologize if there was any confusion
from my inarticulate response.

2415
02:52:22,399 --> 02:52:33,439
» Oh, that's me.
>> That's it. I would like to uh also

2416
02:52:29,760 --> 02:52:37,279
review a comment that I had made about
wanting to

2417
02:52:35,520 --> 02:52:44,319
get more information about those other
140 communities that were also not

2418
02:52:42,399 --> 02:52:49,040
» disallowed.
you know, the for us the roughly 200

2419
02:52:46,560 --> 02:52:53,840
something thousand. Um I I would like to
find more information what commonalities

2420
02:52:50,640 --> 02:52:59,359
there were. Um and you know, this is
where we do approach before we have to

2421
02:52:56,160 --> 02:53:04,720
take any type of expensive legal action.
But I agree going to Marky um and and

2422
02:53:02,880 --> 02:53:09,680
going to who or even to warn whoever
else will listen um to ask them

2423
02:53:08,319 --> 02:53:13,200
what the hell just happened here? Why
are we saddled with something that we

2424
02:53:11,520 --> 02:53:17,200
thought that we followed the rules that
we thought we were supposed to get and

2425
02:53:14,479 --> 02:53:24,080
now small towns like us have to, you
know, take on the take on the the brunt.

2426
02:53:20,720 --> 02:53:30,640
» Mhm. So,
>> uh, tri chair meets at 8 a.m. on Friday.

2427
02:53:27,359 --> 02:53:36,560
So, we'll be at town hall. Uh, we've met
once before. Again, we're meeting to

2428
02:53:32,720 --> 02:53:42,800
discuss theus and align them. Um some of
them are out of date and need updating.

2429
02:53:40,080 --> 02:53:49,520
um some of them need re-evaluation and
some of them need further consideration

2430
02:53:45,439 --> 02:53:54,240
and we will be um bringing I think I
think the conversation was a sort of

2431
02:53:51,600 --> 02:53:57,359
like a tri board meeting prebudget
conversation so that everybody could

2432
02:53:55,840 --> 02:54:02,080
come together again in the way we did
before so that we're recorded and have a

2433
02:53:59,760 --> 02:54:06,319
very clear understanding of what all the
questions on the table are um and

2434
02:54:04,720 --> 02:54:12,240
something to go back to when people say
what did we mean when we wrote that um

2435
02:54:08,479 --> 02:54:16,960
So, um, that's the plan. Happy to take
any feedback. Um, you guys can give it

2436
02:54:14,880 --> 02:54:19,520
to Nick and Nick will be there with me.
Patrick's going to join us, too.

2437
02:54:18,720 --> 02:54:27,120
» When is that again?
>> Try chair. It's 8:00 a.m. on September

2438
02:54:22,240 --> 02:54:33,040
11th, right before the memorial service
remembrance.

2439
02:54:29,520 --> 02:54:36,160
Okay. I'll take a motion to adjourn.
Second. All

2440
02:54:33,680 --> 02:54:39,600
» in favor? I I
>> Thank you.

2441
02:54:36,880 --> 02:54:39,600
» Thank you.