[This transcript was generated automatically from audio using AI and hasn't been reviewed by a person -- it can contain mistakes, including plausible-sounding sentences that were never actually said. Treat it as a starting point, not a verbatim record.]

[0:11] Thank you, everybody. It is 302 on Wednesday, September 9th. I'd like to call this meeting of Tallahassee City Commission to order. We have full chambers today. It's great to see everybody. We have a full meeting. And then we have the first of two public hearings on the budget, along with other issues that will begin at 6 o'clock tonight. So we have a full agenda today. Without further ado, let's go ahead and get started. It is my honor and privilege to introduce and to invite to the well.
[0:41] Well, the Reverend Dr. Gerald Mandrell, the pastor of Life Changers Church of God in Christ.
[0:47] Dr. Mandrell, it's good to see you.
[0:48] Ladies and gentlemen, please stand for the invocation.
[0:55] Father, in the name of Jesus, the Lord, we come before you with unbearable hearts and with
[0:59] humble minds, knowing that without you, we can do nothing, even as it said in Psalm 127 and
[1:06] one, that if you don't keep the city, the watchers wake in vain.
[1:12] So God, we seek you today.
[1:14] We seek your presence, we seek your adnointing to rest with us.
[1:19] We ask that you bless our leaders, that you bring them into unity and a harmony so
[1:25] that they can effectively manage this city, this community of believers.
[1:30] So God, we ask that your glory will rest upon us, even as we do the business of the city
[1:37] of Tallahassee, that favor come upon these young people so that we will serve them in righteousness
[1:43] justice and in truth and that your will will be done.
[1:47] And it's in Jesus name, we pray, amen.
[1:50] Amen.
[1:50] Ladies and gentlemen, if you will join me in the Pledge of Allegiance,
[1:54] I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America
[1:59] and to the Republic for which it stands,
[2:02] one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.
[2:13] Special shout out, I see my dear friend former school board member,
[2:17] for Joey Bowen has joined us today.
[2:19] It's great to see you, Joey.
[2:21] I hope you're doing well.
[2:22] Thanks for joining us in Chambers.
[2:23] I hope I haven't missed any current or former elected
[2:28] that might have joined us as well.
[2:30] All right, Mr. Manager, do we have any agenda modifications
[2:33] or today?
[2:34] Yes, sir, Mr. Mayor.
[2:36] Item 8.01 has been pulled the request of Commissioner Porter.
[2:41] That is your approval of the 2027 City Commission
[2:45] meeting schedule. Okay. And then item 1001, which is the approval of the city manager
[2:50] employment agreement, the materials were added to that item.
[2:55] All right. Any questions, colleagues? To the manager, just simply on the modifications
[3:00] that are before us today. All right. If you all would care to join me down at the well for
[3:05] some presentations, I would love to have you.
[3:27] Well, as we like to start all of our meetings
[3:30] means off with some recognition.
[3:33] It is my honor and privilege to invite Cague Nation, Big Ben 211 and all of our friends
[3:41] that are here, please come join us as well, for a special recognition.
[3:50] And as you all are coming forward, let me just tell you, I think the work that you do is
[3:54] absolutely amazing, so vital to this community, so proud to have you and Chambers and allowing
[4:01] us to recognize you on this all-important issue today.
[4:06] Ladies and gentlemen, from the governing body of the city of Tallahassee, a proclamation,
[4:12] whereas September is recognized nationally as suicide awareness and prevention month,
[4:16] raise awareness about mental health, reduce the stigma surrounding suicide, encourage
[4:20] you to open conversations, and connect individuals and families with life-saving resources and
[4:25] support.
[4:26] And, whereas millions of Americans experience suicidal thoughts, make suicide plans, or attempt suicide each year,
[4:33] demonstrating the ongoing need for prevention, intervention, compassionate care, and access to mental health services.
[4:40] And, whereas suicide remains a significant public health concern,
[4:44] underscoring the importance of expanding access to behavioral health services,
[4:48] crisis intervention, suicide prevention, early intervention, and community education.
[4:53] And whereas suicide affects individuals and families throughout the city of Tallahassee,
[4:58] leaving a lasting impact on loved ones, friends, co-workers, classmates, neighbors, and the entire community.
[5:05] And whereas 2-1-1 big Ben, the designated regional provider of the 988 Suicide and Crisis Lifeline,
[5:12] provides 24-hour crisis intervention, emotional support, suicide prevention services,
[5:18] and connections to behavioral health, and community resources throughout North Florida.
[5:22] And whereas the City of Tallahassee proudly recognizes the dedicated crisis counselors at 211 Big Ben,
[5:28] we answer some of life's most difficult calls 24 hours a day, 365 days a year.
[5:34] Alongside volunteers, educators, health care providers, first responders, peer specialists,
[5:39] and community organizations working to prevent suicide, promote hope,
[5:44] reduce stigma, and connect individuals to life-saving support and resources.
[5:48] And whereas every person can make a difference by reaching out,
[5:51] listening with compassion, recognizing the warning signs of emotional distress and reminding
[5:56] those who are struggling that they are not alone that help is available and that recovery is possible.
[6:02] Now, therefore, I, John Evans-Daley by the authority vested in me as the Mayor of the City of
[6:06] Tallahassee, do hereby recognize September as National Suicide Prevention Month and encourage
[6:12] all residents to promote hope, increase awareness of mental health resources, reduce stigma,
[6:17] And support those affected by suicide and remember that one conversation can save a life.
[6:24] Readin' to the record in front of each and every one of you here today, signed with my signature, John E.
[6:29] Daley dated September 9th, 2026, okay?
[6:34] It is an honor to have you in Chambers and Presidents Park to make sure.
[6:44] Good afternoon, everyone.
[6:45] I will make this brief.
[6:46] I know you all are here for all the other goodies on the agenda today, but I just want to say thank you to the City of
[6:56] I don't know if you guys know that are not, but it's nationwide.
[6:59] You don't have to be in mental health crisis to call.
[7:03] You can call for a friend, a family member, a child, anyone that you don't really know how to approach them or talk to them about it.
[7:11] You can call 9-8-8. It's here 24-7-365 days a year for you, your neighbors, and we are honored to answer the call.
[7:19] last fiscal year we received about 5,098 calls, and on 211 helpline we received about 38,000 calls.
[7:29] So it's important we all talk about it, we get the word out and make sure that no one faces a crisis alone just to reach out and call 98.
[7:39] I
[8:37] would now love to invite my friend, Leslie Powell-Budrow, to please come forward to accept a proclamation on behalf
[8:46] half of legal services of North Florida?
[8:49] Leslie, how you doing?
[8:56] Come join me, come join me.
[8:58] Ladies and gentlemen, from the governing body of the city of Tallahassee, a proclamation,
[9:02] whereas legal services of North Florida was founded in Tallahassee on August 25th, 1976, advancing
[9:08] access to justice for 50 years by providing civil legal assistance to low income and vulnerable
[9:14] residents who otherwise could not afford representation.
[9:17] And whereas from its beginning in Florida's capital city, legal services in North Florida
[9:22] has grown to serve residents across the Florida panhandle, working to ensure that justice
[9:26] is not determined by a person's income, age, disability, or circumstance, and whereas
[9:32] throughout its history, legal services in North Florida has helped bridge the gap between
[9:36] the courts and the people they serve by providing critical legal help and matters involving
[9:41] housing stability, family safety, public benefits, consumer protection, health care
[9:46] access, veterans issues, and other essential civil legal needs.
[9:51] And whereas through legal advocacy, education, and partnerships with local governments, courts, human service providers, the legal community, volunteers and supporters,
[10:01] legal services of North Florida has promoted fairness, stability, and opportunity for individuals and families.
[10:07] And whereas by serving children, older adults, veterans, survivors of abuse, people with disabilities, and families facing crisis.
[10:15] legal services of North Florida has strengthened communities and upheld the promise of equal justice under the law.
[10:21] And whereas the 50th anniversary of legal services of North Florida marks a significant milestone
[10:27] recognizing the organization's longstanding commitment to justice, service, and community impact.
[10:32] Now therefore, I, John Evans-Daley, by the authority vested in me as the mayor of the city of Tallahassee,
[10:38] Do hereby recognize the 50th anniversary of legal services of North Florida and commends
[10:43] its enduring dedication to expanding access to civil justice for the residents of Tallahassee
[10:48] and communities across North Florida, rather than to the record in front of each and every
[10:53] one of you here today, signed with my signature John E. Daley dated September 9th, 2026,
[11:00] Leslie, congratulations on the 50th anniversary.
[11:02] Thank
[11:08] you, Mayor, and thanks commissioners.
[11:12] We started here in Tallahassee, and while we cover 16 counties now, this is home.
[11:18] We are woven into the history of Tallahassee having been started in partnership with First
[11:25] Presbyterian Church with a little bit of money that we've been able to really grow and flourish
[11:30] in order to support the most vulnerable people in our community.
[11:35] No one should be worse off just because they get pulled into the court system and don't have a lawyer to help them.
[11:42] And that's what we're here to do, and we are grateful for the partnership with the city.
[11:46] Always love working with the staff as we find ways to make sure that all of its citizens are served.
[11:53] I want to thank some of our team here, Charlotte, our Director of Communications, and Rochelle, our Director of Pro Bono.
[11:59] So it takes a team of us to do this work and I'm just grateful for this opportunity to
[12:06] celebrate this anniversary with y'all.
[12:08] So thank you so much.
[12:09] Excellent.
[12:09] May we get a picture?
[12:10] Absolutely.
[12:58] Ladies and gentlemen, it is my honor and privilege to invite all members.
[13:04] How has he fired a department that is here in Chambers or in the sound of my voice to please
[13:08] come join me and my colleagues at the wealth?
[13:12] But
[13:32] as a German, we have the best fire department in the nation right here in Tallahassee.
[13:36] It is not an privilege to work with the chief and your dynamic award-winning team each
[13:40] and every day.
[13:41] I also want you to know how appreciative, not only of the best services in the nation that
[13:48] you all provide, I know that we will be spending time together on September 11th.
[13:52] You always do an incredible ceremony honoring the tragedy that took place on September 11th.
[13:58] And thank you so much for the invitation to participate,
[14:01] and I would like to invite the public to come join us
[14:03] also at station one and chief,
[14:05] if you wouldn't mind in your remarks,
[14:07] reminding everybody of the time.
[14:10] And once again, stay in station one for the location,
[14:13] so that everyone that is watching and listening knows.
[14:16] Join us.
[14:17] Ladies and gentlemen, from the governing body
[14:19] of the city of Tallahassee, a proclamation,
[14:21] whereas the Tallahassee Fire Department
[14:23] is fully committed to ensuring the safety and security
[14:26] of all those living in and visiting Tallahassee, and whereas fire remains a serious public safety
[14:31] concern but locally and nationally, in the presence of lithium ion batteries and many household
[14:37] devices introduced fire risks. And whereas most of the rechargeable electronics used in homes daily,
[14:44] including smartphones, tablets, laptops, power tools, e-bikes, e-scooters, and toys, are powered by
[14:50] lithium-ion batteries, which if misused, damaged or improperly charged, can overheat,
[14:56] start a fire or explode and whereas the national fire
[15:00] Election Association reports an increase in battery-related fires, underscoring the need for public education
[15:06] on the safe use of lithium ion batteries and devices, and whereas the way lithium ion batteries
[15:12] devices are charged can make a difference in helping prevent home fires, and whereas
[15:16] safe charging includes using the cord and charger that came with your device or want to prove
[15:21] by the manufacturer, and whereas residents are encouraged to understand that safe charging
[15:25] means making smart choices every time they plug in, and whereas Tallahassee Fire Department
[15:30] remains fully committed to reducing the occurrence of fires through prevention, safety education,
[15:35] and community outreach, and whereas the 2026 Fire Prevention Week theme, charge into fire safety,
[15:43] safe charging is a superpower, serves to remind all residents that safe charging can help reduce
[15:48] the risk of fires and homes and communities. Now, therefore, I, John Evans-Daily by the authority
[15:53] It invested in me as the mayor of the city of Tallahassee to hereby proclaim October 4th through the 10th,
[15:59] 2026 as fire prevention week and urge all residents of Tallahassee to practice safe charging habits and
[16:06] support the many public safety activities and efforts of the Tallahassee Fire Department and emergency services.
[16:11] Read into the record in front of each and every one of you here today, signed with my signature,
[16:16] John E. Daley dated today, September 9th, 2026.
[16:20] Chief, it is truly an honor to present to you in the Towsified Department this proclamation.
[16:25] Thank you, Fally.
[16:31] So thank you, Mayor, commissioners.
[16:33] Following up on your remarks, 9-11, this is the 25th year since 9-11.
[16:40] And let us not forget the great sacrifice that the men and women made on that day.
[16:45] And we ask the public to come out and celebrate their efforts with us this Friday at 3-27 North Adams Street,
[16:54] which is our fire station 1 at 830.
[16:57] It would be a short presentation, a very short walk as well,
[17:01] but we would love for the public to come and be a part of it.
[17:05] I also, before I turn the podium over to division chief Anthony Espinosa,
[17:10] in 1871 was the great Chicago fire, and it was,
[17:15] became very present that the importance of uniform fire safety standards
[17:20] in this country was necessary.
[17:23] So fire departments and cities across the country
[17:27] developed uniform standards to enhance fire safety
[17:32] in our facilities, in our businesses, and also in our homes.
[17:37] So NFEA started a theme in 1922,
[17:40] and each year they identified a theme
[17:43] and fire departments all across this country,
[17:46] they designed campaigns in line with that theme.
[17:49] So now I would like to ask Anthony a Spinoza newly promoted division chief of fire prevention
[17:55] and fire marshal to come forward to talk about the history this year's theme and the events
[18:00] we have planned.
[18:01] Thank you, ma'am.
[18:08] Thank you, chief.
[18:09] Thank you, mayor, commission and manager.
[18:12] Thank you all for recognizing fire prevention week.
[18:15] I'd like to recognize our team, fire prevention team, Captain Toronto Cloud and our inspectors
[18:19] and Captain Robert Clary and our public education team.
[18:22] I work beside these folks every day, and it's an honor, so thank y'all.
[18:27] Like Chief had said, since 1922, the NFPA has sponsored the public observance of Fire Prevention Week.
[18:32] Three years later, President Calvin Coolidge proclaimed Fire Prevention Week a national observance.
[18:37] It makes it the longest-running public health campaign in our country's history.
[18:46] Fire Prevention Week has observed each year during the week of October 9th because of the great Chicago fire.
[18:51] That fire resulted in more than 250 people losing their lives.
[18:54] 100,000 people will be coming homeless
[18:56] in about 2,000 acres of land that have been burned.
[19:00] Like Chief said, each year the NFPA focuses
[19:02] on a new campaign.
[19:04] This year is charging a fire safety,
[19:08] which focuses on charging habits
[19:09] that can reduce the risk of lithium ion battery fires.
[19:15] Some of the helpful tips that we can focus on
[19:18] is making sure that you use a quarter charger
[19:20] that comes with your device.
[19:22] device when your device is fully charged on plug it and if you can charge these devices
[19:27] outside as a father of a 14 and 10 year old son we've got plenty of these devices at
[19:32] the house and it is hard to do outside and if you can't make sure you don't block an
[19:36] exit when you're charging. More helpful tips can be found at NFPA.org so please visit
[19:42] that site. I'd also like to invite everybody besides the 9-11 ceremony we are going to have
[19:48] a touch-a-truck event on October 4th at a Bass Pro for it during Fire Prevention Week.
[19:53] So please visit us out there, and we're also going to be visiting numerous schools
[19:58] during that week to educate the public and the youth out there.
[20:03] So some of the stuff we're going on.
[20:06] Again, the Talos Fire Department Prevention Division is fully committed to educating the public
[20:10] on life safety measures and partnering with the community through our Fire Prevention Practices.
[20:14] Thank you all for allowing us to be here today in recognizing Fire Prevention.
[20:17] Ladies
[21:23] and gentlemen, it is my honor and privilege to recognize former school board member
[21:27] Maggie Lewis Butler, who is here with us today, and for the next presentation, I would
[21:37] like to invite Ms. Helaj Pucina to please come join me, the principal of Riley Elementary
[21:42] School.
[21:44] Ms. Pucina, it's great to see you.
[21:53] All members of your team that are here, please come join us, bring it all your members
[21:57] that are here that would like to come up.
[21:59] That would be great.
[22:01] Oh, it was dismissal time in school, okay, got it, very important, very important.
[22:08] Don't want to make the principal mad, that's for sure.
[22:11] Great to see you, thanks for being here with us.
[22:13] Ladies and gentlemen, from the governing body of the city of Tallahassee, a proclamation,
[22:17] whereas John Gilmore Riley, born into slavery in Leon County on September 24, 1857, rose
[22:24] to become a respected educator, entrepreneur and civic leader whose dedication to education
[22:29] and service, helped shape the telehassy community, and we're asked through his leadership
[22:34] and unwavering belief in the power of education.
[22:37] John G. Riley inspired generations of students and left a legacy that continues to influence
[22:42] our community today.
[22:44] And whereas in 1951, John G. Riley Elementary School was established in his honor, ensuring
[22:51] that his lifelong commitment to learning, leadership and opportunity would continue to inspire future
[22:57] generations and whereas for 75 years John G. Riley Elementary School has served as a cornerstone
[23:04] of the community, shaping the lives of students while fostering academic excellence, perseverance,
[23:09] and resilience, and whereas generations of students, educators, families, and community members
[23:15] have contributed to the proud legacy of John G. Riley Elementary School, making it a place where history,
[23:21] tradition and opportunity come together. Now, therefore, I, John Evans-Daley, by the
[23:26] authority vested in me as the mayor of the city of Tallahassee, do hereby celebrate
[23:31] and recognize the 75th anniversary of John G. Riley Elementary School and honor the enduring
[23:37] legacy of John Gilmore-Reilly, whose vision and commitment to education continues to inspire
[23:43] and empower future generations, signed with my signature, John E. Daley, read into the record
[23:49] in front of each and every one of you here today.
[23:52] David, September 9th, 2026.
[23:55] About a principal, congratulations.
[23:57] And thank you, Joel.
[24:04] Good afternoon, everyone.
[24:07] As I serve as the proud new principal of John G.
[24:12] Elementary School, I want to say thank you
[24:14] to the city of Tallahassee and as well
[24:17] as our Mayor, Daley and Mayor Richardson.
[24:22] Okay, so again, as I began this journey in July, my first task given to me by our teacher,
[24:32] Ms. Sheila Barnes Williams, who's been at Riley for many years.
[24:37] She grew up in the, she went to Riley Elementary School and she gave me a call and said,
[24:43] your first task is to celebrate the 75th year, it was her dream to do so and I gladly made
[24:49] this dream come true. So we will be celebrating with our district on September 24th at 1 p.m.
[24:58] and then with the children on the 25th in a festival form on the 24th and then the 25th with
[25:05] the children. So if you want to be part of making history at Riley Elementary, I welcome you to
[25:12] volunteer, you know, let's do the forms first through the Leon County Schools.net. So we can make
[25:18] I'm sure that our children are safe, but we welcome each and every one of you to be part of history and to make dreams come true at John G. Riley Elementary. So, thank you.
[26:06] Ladies
[26:20] and gentlemen, for our final presentation today, it is a distinct honor and privilege to welcome representatives of the Latter-day Saints Church here in Tallahassee.
[26:29] Please come forward, President Ben Smith, President Mark Lewellan, President Landon Muller,
[26:34] Sister Brookbeeser, Sister Sarah Zern, Bishop Matt McClillus, if he was able to join us,
[26:41] Brother Robert Ivey, Brother Greg Oaks, Brother Charlie Bowen, and Sister Claire Bowen as well.
[26:48] And any other members of the church that are here.
[26:50] And as they're coming forward, I have to tell you that I had the opportunity to host them in my office prior to the Commission meeting.
[26:57] You know the church is internationally famous for their strong foundation based on family
[27:04] and love and their genealogical assistance that they can provide.
[27:11] And as they surprised to me, they surprised me with the research of my family history.
[27:17] And it is absolutely amazing.
[27:20] And I'm still speechless.
[27:22] And before I even begin with the proclamation of why we're here, I personally just want
[27:26] I'm going to say thank you again from the bottom of my heart, it is very, very, thank you.
[27:34] Ladies and gentlemen, from the governing body of the city of Tallahassee, a proclamation,
[27:38] whereas we firmly believe that the values of compassion, empathy, and community support
[27:43] are the foundation of the United, harmonious society, and fosters connections that transcend differences.
[27:49] And whereas the strength and prosperity of our cities, towns, and villages are based in
[27:54] the selflessness of its residents to serve and uplift one another. And whereas we acknowledge
[27:59] the profound impact that can be achieved when we extend the hope and hand to our neighbors,
[28:04] especially those of diverse backgrounds and lifting them up and collectively working to
[28:09] improve lives. And whereas we nurture a culture of giving within our cities, emphasizing that
[28:15] volunteerism is not just a duty, but a source of personal fulfillment and community strength.
[28:20] And as we work side-by-side with and learn from each other, mutual understandings increases,
[28:26] misconceptions can be corrected, and new friendships are built.
[28:31] And whereas we urge all citizens to care for one another, volunteer and engage in acts
[28:36] of service and kindness that contribute to our city's betterment and its inhabitants well
[28:40] being, regardless of background or belief, and whereas the city of Tallahassee has joined
[28:45] to growing list of supporters, including the President of the National League of Cities
[28:49] and hundreds of leaders to date, and making a commitment to volunteerism.
[28:54] And now, therefore, I, John Evans-Daley, by the authority vested in me as the Mayor of
[28:58] the City of Tallahassee, do hereby recognize, just serve in the City of Tallahassee and
[29:04] commits to promoting volunteerism, leveraging, just serve.org to make it easier for residents
[29:11] to find and engage in involuntary activities, and will regularly acknowledge and celebrate the contribution of volunteers.
[29:19] Ladies and gentlemen, read into the record in front of each and every one of you here today.
[29:23] Signed with my signature, John E. Daley, dated September 9th, 2026.
[29:28] Please join me in recognizing the church.
[29:41] Mayor Daley, commissioners, neighbors and friends, it's a distinct privilege to be with you today and
[29:47] And recognize all the good that happens in telehassy.
[29:50] We are grateful for this distinction of telehassy being recognized, they just serve city.
[29:57] A place where we can come, we can serve-
[30:00] We can lift up one another. We can bring our talents, our means, our skills, our time, help lift others and make others better in what we do. So, Mayor Daley, we're grateful for this. We're grateful for the opportunity to recognize, just serve until I have seen, just serve.org contains many opportunities to go forth in the community, serve, and to lift others. Thank you so much. Thank you. Thank you. Absolutely, Lord.
[31:40] Ladies and gentlemen, I was telling my colleagues while we were taking the
[31:43] a picture of what an honor it is to be named a just served community out of roughly 19,500
[31:50] communities just in the United States alone, there are only a couple of hundred cities
[31:56] and only a handful in the state of Florida that are recognized as just served communities
[32:01] and we are one of them. So it is a distinct honor and a privilege to be recognized and we
[32:06] appreciate everyone for coming today to help us celebrate.
[32:10] All right. Mr. Manager, do we have any announcements to come before the City Commission at this time?
[32:15] No, sir.
[32:15] We have any appearances by other governing boards or agencies or governments?
[32:20] No, sir.
[32:21] All right, we are on the consent agenda.
[32:23] Mr. Clerk, do we have any public comment on any of the consent items?
[32:28] No, sir, only on item that was pulled.
[32:30] Okay, item that was pulled was previously 8.01.
[32:33] We will take it up as 9.01 in just a second.
[32:36] Colleagues, is there a direction on the rest of consent?
[32:39] Move forward.
[32:39] Second.
[32:40] Mayor Pro Tem has properly moved the consent agenda,
[32:43] seconded by Commissioner Williams Cox, any further discussion?
[32:46] Seeing none, all those in favor signify by saying aye.
[32:49] All those opposed?
[32:51] Passes unanimously 5-0.
[32:53] We are on item number 9.01, previously 8.01, Mr. Manager.
[32:58] Mr. Mayor, this seeks the commission's approval for the calendar year 2027 City Commission meeting schedule.
[33:06] The schedule as proposed and attached to your agenda includes one annual retreat as typical 12 regular meetings and three workshops for a total 16 meetings in 2027.
[33:22] All right. Commissioner Porter, I'll hold on just a second. Mr. Clerk, do we have public comment on the side of the?
[33:28] We do have one speaker on the item mayor.
[33:30] Commissioner Porter, do you want to do a quick introduction of why you pulled it, and then we'll go to public comment, or do you want to just go straight to public comment?
[33:38] I'll be quick.
[33:39] Okay.
[33:40] I pulled it because I want to vote against it.
[33:42] I don't think that one meeting a month, 12 meetings is enough.
[33:46] I think we've suffered as a result, especially with the fact that we have limited public comment during non-agenda items.
[33:54] So that's why I pulled it.
[33:56] I know the city manager said as typical, but it's not what has been typical.
[33:59] We have slowly cut meetings over the years, and we took this action a couple years ago, but I would just want the public to know it's not necessarily what's typical for the city of telehassy.
[34:10] Okay, so commission important, we will take public comment, when we're done with public comment, I will come back to you for a motion.
[34:16] Why don't you give it some thought of what you think is appropriate and we'll go from there.
[34:21] Public comment, Mr. Clerk.
[34:23] Thank you, Mayor.
[34:23] We have one speaker on the item, Stanley Sims.
[34:26] As our first speaker, he already knows, but for everybody else in the audience, he'll have three minutes for remarks, and he'll have a light that turns yellow in front of the mayor at 30 seconds, as well as a reminder from me. Thank you.
[34:37] My name is Stanley Sims. I'm a 1320 Barack Obama way.
[34:45] The ability, the opportunity to communicate with your local government is indeed a treasure.
[34:58] Now,
[35:03] some in America was born with this treasure,
[35:09] some in America are in certain positions
[35:13] that they don't even need an appointment to meet with their elected officials.
[35:25] But I thank God today that there is something called the Constitution,
[35:34] we, we,
[35:38] the people,
[35:41] that affords us
[35:45] white, black, rich, or even full like me,
[35:55] a chance and an opportunity to
[36:00] communicate with their government.
[36:05] And so what we have done today, or about to do today, is limit those opportunities.
[36:16] And we ask ourselves, why people don't vote?
[36:18] We
[36:23] ask ourselves, why people walk away with negative outlooks of government.
[36:34] I heard something from you, Commissioner Cox, that just robbed my spirit doing the debate
[36:42] at the NEBA.
[36:44] The question was, and I'm summarizing in case Steve Stewart is in the audience in May Suvie,
[36:52] The question was, what is the greatest calamity that you think is at City Hall?
[37:06] Your response to that question was, you didn't think your local government understood,
[37:14] you didn't think people understood how local government worked.
[37:19] So,
[37:22] imminent, their opportunity to converse is not a productive step in the right direction.
[37:36] No other speakers on the other.
[37:37] No speaker.
[37:39] So, Commissioner Porter, I will come to you.
[37:41] I actually agree that with a new commission, the need to meet and
[37:46] to educate and to familiarize is a very important thing.
[37:50] So, would you here to make a motion to amend this proposed schedule?
[37:58] Sure. Thank you, Mr. Mayor.
[37:59] I would like, I would move that we adopt the 2027 City Commission meeting schedule, but with two meetings a month.
[38:10] Yes.
[38:10] With two meetings a month, including our July break, but with the frequency we met before we made these changes.
[38:19] Does the schedule need to come back in a formal manner, or are you just comfortable with having
[38:24] it, you know, letting staff figure out the two meetings a month and then email in the schedule back out?
[38:30] I think it can just come back to us on consent.
[38:33] Okay.
[38:34] The next meeting.
[38:35] All right, so the motion on the table is to move from one meeting a month, the two meetings
[38:39] a month, still observing the summer recess, and for it to come back on consent for next meeting.
[38:47] second to the motion. All right, seconded by Commissioner Mallow, any further comment?
[38:53] They none, all those in favor, second five by saying aye.
[38:55] Aye.
[38:56] All those pose passes unanimously.
[38:58] All right, we are on item number 10.01, the approval of the City Manager Employment Agreement
[39:05] with the Mayor and City Commission.
[39:08] Colleagues, I will be presenting this item, and then we will have public comment, then
[39:16] And we will enter in the discussion, and we will see where it goes from there.
[39:20] Give me two seconds to get set up.
[39:33] Okay, let me provide some background on April 28th as you recall, our city manager rescued,
[39:39] announced his retirement as the city manager for the city of Tallahassee,
[39:43] which started the process of a national search for a new city manager.
[39:48] We hired an incredible consulting company that went through the process of advertising nationally,
[39:54] bringing in all the applications, doing the first vet of applications, and bringing us three potential candidates for full interview, we then each individually had the opportunity to sit down with those candidates and then the next day, last Wednesday, we had the opportunity to do a full interview and listen to the presentations of the top three candidates.
[40:16] All three candidates, I think, did a wonderful job.
[40:20] And I think once again, you will agree that we congratulate them all on putting their best foot forward on why they wanted to serve the City of Tallahassee as City Manager.
[40:29] As a commission, though, we decided to move forward to make an offer to Dr. Karen Jummanville to be the next City Manager of the City of Tallahassee.
[40:37] Where then I was given the direction as the mayor of Tallahassee to negotiate the contract.
[40:42] From there, let me tell you that as soon as we left the meeting, I immediately went and sat down with the director of human resources for the city of Tallahassee to discuss the contract negotiation, to discuss what are the terms that we need to discuss moving forward to agree upon and what are some of the guidelines from leaving the director of HR.
[41:01] I went directly to Lou Norville, who was the acting city attorney,
[41:05] and asked them the same questions to provide his professional guidance and to provide his input on how the process should work, and I greatly appreciate both of them.
[41:15] Of the course of the past week, I had been working with Dr. Jummelville to come to an agreement on the proposed contract.
[41:22] As of yesterday, we had a verbal agreement that I will walk through in just a second.
[41:26] Once I had that verbal agreement, I immediately went back to the director of human resources,
[41:32] told her of the verbal agreement that we have and outlined the bullet points that were to be placed into the contract.
[41:39] I also had a chance to sit down with the city attorney, Amy Tomin.
[41:43] Allow her to know where we were with the agreement between Dr.
[41:46] Jummanville and myself.
[41:48] And then once, then I believe the director of HR also got with Amy Tomin the city attorney.
[41:56] once they signed off on it in which is the city manager who then placed it on the agenda for public notice.
[42:03] As we know, I do not have the power to hire and fire myself, but I bring it back for full ratification.
[42:09] I will walk you through the contract, but let me explain the process.
[42:12] The contract is a verbal agreement between Dr. Jummanville and myself as mayor, but myself I do not carry the weight, it's the ratification of the board.
[42:20] If we do not like the contract and reject the contract as presented, then we can do one of two things.
[42:27] Normally, as it was explained to me, as we go back to the drawing board, you provide direction
[42:32] of negotiation points, whether it's salary or whatever it may be.
[42:37] And then we see if we can come to an agreement, and then I bring it back for ratification.
[42:41] But do we not necessarily take a vote to amend the contract?
[42:45] Or I guess we could, and then go back and negotiate as well, correct?
[42:50] I think we could do that, but it would, then it would have to go back to Dr.
[42:54] Jummanville for approval, of course.
[42:55] Sure, of course.
[42:56] So the contract that was used is our standard contract for appointed officials.
[43:02] And again, I want to thank the Director of Human Resources and the City Attorney's Office
[43:06] for walking me through.
[43:08] The major points that I want to cover is number one, the start date.
[43:13] Reese, I want to publicly thank you once again for agreeing to stay on as the city manager
[43:18] through September 30th, and serving as a city manager to get us through this budget cycle.
[43:23] The proposed start date that was agreed upon is October 1st, which also happens to be the beginning of the fiscal year.
[43:29] It is a clean start.
[43:31] Reese will take us through this budget cycle.
[43:34] Karen will start a city manager on October 1, that has been agreed upon.
[43:38] The starting salary is posted at $317,000, and where $317,000 comes from is
[43:47] is exactly where the position of city manager of what rescued would be making on October 1.
[43:54] Not a penny more, not a penny less, is the exact same amount.
[43:58] Now, I'm sure there's questions on why, how much, the whole line yards.
[44:03] And I know that director of human resources is here and fully prepared to talk about where that falls within the professional standard of a city or size of a manager that runs all of the utilities.
[44:16] So I know that you're prepared of those questions come up.
[44:19] But is it fair to say that we are nowhere near the top of that professional standard?
[44:25] In fact, we are still in the lower tier, but it is the salary that has been agreed upon with Dr.
[44:31] Jummanville and myself to bring forward before the City Commission.
[44:35] Obviously, pretty standard 20 weeks of severance pay as authorized by Section 215.425 of Florida statutes.
[44:42] She has a 4, 5, 7 retirement account with the City of Tallahassee.
[44:49] There was the question of whether she wanted a car allowance or to be able to drive one of the fleet cars of her choice.
[44:58] Thank you.
[45:00] Appreciate the fact that she has chosen the route to go with a car allowance. If she went the route with the fleet, the city would be on the hook for car insurance or fuel for maintenance of that vehicle by going the route of a car allowance at $1,000 a month, then that is her responsibility or insurance for fuel and for maintenance. But she gets to choose what vehicle she would want to drive versus what is in fleet. Finally, I want to discuss the termination
[45:29] provision in the City Manager's contract, it requires an affirmative vote of two-thirds majority of the City Commission, not a simple majority of the City Commission.
[45:39] This is something that I personally will take full ownership of, and I strongly believe in.
[45:45] I think it depoliticizes the position of the City Manager, I think it is needed.
[45:51] I have stood on this position for many, many, many years.
[45:54] When I served as the chairman of the county commission, when Vince Long was hired, I led the charge then to change the county charter to make sure that it was included, and to this day, the term nation procedure for the county administrator of Leon County is a super majority provision as well, even to the point to where a couple of years ago, when we changed the position, and there is precedent here at the city commission, when we changed the position of inspector general.
[46:23] So, we put the termination language into the contract requiring a two-thirds termination if we decided to separate with Dennis Sutton or whoever holds that position.
[46:34] It was then later added into the city charter.
[46:38] If you recall, I voted against that measure because I stated for the record at the time and I still believe so today that all four appointed officials should have a two-thirds majority.
[46:52] in their contract for termination, and I still feel strongly about that.
[46:57] So, annual salary of $317,000, 20 weeks of severance pay, $1,000 monthly automobile allowance,
[47:06] the city contribution to a $457 retirement account, the termination provision language of a super majority,
[47:13] and the contract date starting on October 1, in ending on September 30th,
[47:18] 2031 to be ratified by the next commission.
[47:21] It is a five year contract that is pretty standard of what we provide as well.
[47:26] Those are the major bullet provisions.
[47:28] If I missed anything, I apologize.
[47:30] I am available for any questions on the points of the contract as proposed.
[47:36] Ultimately, it is the decision of this body to ratify it and
[47:39] whether we move forward in signature with Dr. Jummanville.
[47:43] I know we have public comment on this item.
[47:45] Are there any quick just questions of clarification before I get a public comment?
[47:51] All right, let's go to public comment.
[47:53] How many speakers do we have, Mr. Clerk?
[47:55] May we get about 10 or 11 speakers on the item?
[47:57] Sounds great.
[47:58] The first speaker is Marsha Rule, followed by Ernie Payne.
[48:03] As with Mr. Simpson, in our earlier comments, you'll have three minutes for your remarks.
[48:07] Your name and address for the record, please.
[48:09] Marsha Rule, Levin Myers-Park, three things.
[48:13] First, this is premature.
[48:13] There's no reason this has to be filled right away.
[48:17] Mary, you said you wanted to depot it a size this process.
[48:20] The way to do that is wait until I have to be election.
[48:23] Second, the expense.
[48:25] Outline for cities of our size.
[48:27] We're not Tampa.
[48:29] And this is exactly the reason why so many of my neighbors are planning to vote three on vote.
[48:35] Yes, on amendment three.
[48:37] I think it's misguided to do so, but this is exactly what people are rebelling against.
[48:42] And finally, regarding the two-thirds majority, not only should the commission reject it, but
[48:47] so should the candidate, if the candidate cannot manage to keep free out of five commissioners
[48:53] satisfied that he or she is doing a good job, they should resign, they shouldn't wait to be fired.
[48:58] Thank you.
[48:59] Thank you.
[48:59] Our next speaker, please.
[49:01] Ernie Payne is next, followed by Cotton Taylor.
[49:05] All right, your name and address for the record, please.
[49:08] are any pain 2006 East Indian head drive. Two years ago, this body considered a proposal for
[49:18] submitting a charter amendment to the ballot for the creation of the Office of Inspector General.
[49:23] The most significant part of that amendment, according to the Inspector General himself,
[49:28] in response to a question by Commissioner Williams Cox, was in order to strengthen
[49:33] It was the requirement for a supermajority vote for removal from office in order to strengthen the necessary independence of that office.
[49:41] It was stated very clearly at that time that a charter amendment was required in order to change the charter language of serving at the pleasure of the City Commission to serve to requiring a two-thirds vote for removal.
[49:55] This was the same language that the charter used at that time for the City Auditor, the Treasurer Clerk, and the City Manager
[50:01] to define the employment terms of their offices.
[50:05] The proposal to send the charter amendment to the ballot was passed by an unusual four-to-one vote.
[50:11] And the charter amendment was passed overwhelmingly by the voters.
[50:16] The sole dissent among you was the mayor, who stated that he opposed the ballot initiative because it was a massive change that should not be done as such a rushed manner.
[50:27] And there wasn't time to consider such a proposal before it went to the ballot.
[50:30] These words were spoken on April 24th, 2024, six months prior to the election.
[50:38] Now, just one week after the new City Manager was appointed, the mayor made clear that
[50:44] he would be negotiating the employment contract.
[50:47] This contract was posted for public viewing just 24 hours ago, providing for removal by a
[50:54] two-thirds vote.
[50:55] Also, following the links to the City Charter posted on the Talgo website, the language that was in the charter two years ago that the City Manager serves at the pleasure of the City Commission has been removed, although there has been no intervening charter amendment.
[51:11] The legality of this is at best questionable, although having been given less than 24 hours to research this, even a qualified attorney, which I am not, would be hard pressed to answer.
[51:24] Please delay approval of the employment contract.
[51:27] If this moves forward today in this form, you are not only degrading the public trust
[51:32] of the people of Telehassy.
[51:34] You would also be doing a disservice to your new city manager who will be entering her
[51:39] new office under a cloud, your own creation, for no conceivable purpose other than to politicize
[51:48] in office, but the charter explicitly defines as non-political.
[51:53] Thank you.
[51:54] Our next speaker, please.
[51:56] Next speaker is Cutton Taylor, Cutton Taylor, and then Yuri Gutschall.
[52:03] Your name and address for the record, please.
[52:07] Yeah, my name is actually Colton Taylor.
[52:09] I live at 63, one of these calls to you.
[52:11] Colleagues?
[52:11] I guess.
[52:12] Yeah.
[52:13] Okay.
[52:14] So, like you said, I think you said that it's going to be non-political, that the photo
[52:19] the one vote that that's why you put it in there.
[52:21] I actually think it's very bad faith and actually very political on your part.
[52:26] I think that the charter says, or at least from what I read, is that the city managers
[52:31] to serve the pleasure of the city commission, and it seems like to me that that house that
[52:35] implies a simple majority.
[52:38] So I'd like to see it kept that way as a show of good faith to the city of Tallahassee to
[52:43] the rest of the commissioners.
[52:44] So yeah, thank you very much.
[53:01] I'd like to first start by addressing you, Mr. Mayor, in your discuss of the time that it took to pursue this candidate at no point, did you mention when you were taking input from the public?
[53:14] As somebody who was a member of Tallahassee's Society or a population, I feel very rushed and I felt like I did not get the opportunity to voice my opinion to say what I felt like the direction of the city and to make sure that that was going to be represented by the candidates that includes showing up to the event that happened last week, which was posted one day before it seems to be there's a long history of that now I wanted to come on and talk to this. I was going to ask you, first of all whether or not you felt like you
[53:43] are not representing, or you no longer need to represent the citizens of the public,
[53:49] or the opinions of the public, whether or not you felt like you needed to listen to them
[53:53] and gather their inputs that you were not running for re-election, I would ask your co-councillors
[53:59] if they would be able to stand on approving a contract with fewer votes than it would
[54:07] to eliminate that. That is, I think, the crux and the most important thing is that the
[54:11] reality is that given from what has happened from previous meetings, this, if passes,
[54:17] is going to pass with a two-three majority.
[54:20] And the reality is that it is a terrible policy to allow a lower burden of proof,
[54:26] a burden of consent, to approve a contract, and then to reject it.
[54:30] And that handicaps my ability as well as my fellow citizens' ability to speak and see some
[54:38] some level of repercussion if you guys make a decision that we don't agree with.
[54:43] So I ask very specifically about the requirement for the two-thirds majority,
[54:49] that you do not approve any contract that has that level of barrier.
[54:54] Where the barrier to approve it is lower than the barrier to undo it later on.
[54:59] Because you have handicapped the ability for myself as well as possible future commission,
[55:05] one that you will not be a member of, and their ability to speak and rule on that.
[55:11] And because of that, I ask that you, if nothing else, strike that, but preferably take longer
[55:18] and provide opportunity for myself to show up to a meeting and actually meet the candidates.
[55:24] Because the reality is when I showed up to that meeting last week, I was in a situation
[55:27] where I felt like I was competing for the time when I was having a conversation with your candidate.
[55:32] I was actually interrupted and told I had enough time by Mr. Sims, because we were all trying to get some time in with the possible chief executive of our city.
[55:44] Thank you for your time.
[55:45] Thank you.
[55:45] Next speaker, please.
[55:47] Go on Thomas.
[55:49] And then Mark Chandler.
[55:59] Your name and address for the record, please.
[56:00] John Thomas, 2-1-1-3, Joyner Drive, good evening, mayor and commissioners.
[56:06] I'm here to urge you to reconsider the proposed 317,000 annual salary and contract terms for the city manager.
[56:15] Let's be clear, this is not just a personal decision made by the mayor.
[56:18] It's a major financial and governance decision that could blind and bind Tallahassee for years.
[56:25] Residents deserve more than a last-minute presentation of a contract with a five-year term severance, extra allowance, automatic renewals and a provision requiring four or five, four out of five commissioners to remove the city manager.
[56:40] Mayor Daley, if this proposal is truly the best interest of Tallahassee, then it should have been able to withstand full public scrutiny, not be rushed through under the radar or presented as if the public should simply accept it.
[56:53] But you would have done it your first term, not while you were not running for re-election if it was that important.
[56:59] The question is not whether the city manager's job matters.
[57:02] It does, the question is whether her pay should be that high.
[57:06] More than 1.5 million in base pay over five years is the right priority when working families are concerned about affordability.
[57:15] When residents expect safe streets and reliable infrastructure.
[57:18] And when city employees serving the public every day needs support and competitive wages.
[57:25] This is not about only salary, it's about accountability.
[57:30] Then, under this proposed agreement, a future commission could have a three to majority,
[57:34] an ordinary majority of an elected body, and still be unable to remove the city manager.
[57:40] Four commissioners would have to agree.
[57:43] This is a serious restriction on the authority voters give their elected representatives.
[57:47] Mayer daily in this commission should not use the final months of an outgoing political era to make it harder for future elected leaders to respond to the people of Tallahassee.
[57:59] If this contract is fair and necessary, as it supports claims, then remove the four, sorry, four vote firing requirement,
[58:08] shorten the initial term, publish meaningful performance benchmarks, and let a majority elected commission retain the authority to make leadership changes.
[58:17] I'll ask you deserves to transparency, accountability, and leadership that is not treat public trust like a procedure, like an obstacle, obstacle.
[58:27] Thank you.
[58:28] Thank you.
[58:29] Our next speaker, please.
[58:30] Mark Chandler is our next speaker, followed by Dr. Inman Johnson.
[58:41] Your name and address for the record, please.
[58:43] My name is Mark Chandler, I live at 214 West Fourth Avenue.
[58:47] So, one of the things that jumped out at me was the $1,000 month automobile allowance.
[58:54] According to the contract, the automobile allowance is, quote, intended to compensate the employee for use of her personal vehicle in connection with the performance of the employee's work and other related employment duties.
[59:09] So, I'm not actually here to tell you that this needs to change or be stripped out of the contract, but I am here to ask you to just take a moment to consider.
[59:18] that what this says about our built environment.
[59:22] Look, I think it's important for our city manager
[59:24] to get around town quickly and efficiently.
[59:27] Consider a scenario where she's got a meeting on campus
[59:30] and then a ribbon cutting ceremony across town
[59:32] and it's got to get back to downtown to the office.
[59:36] How's she going to do that?
[59:38] Well, she's going to drive.
[59:39] It's the obvious answer.
[59:41] It's obvious that she's not going to rent a scooter.
[59:45] Scooters aren't allowed on campus.
[59:47] clean and plaza or anywhere outside of a select centralized boundary.
[59:52] It's obvious to me that she's not going to take a bike while there may be painted bike lanes between all those destinations.
[1:00:00] She probably wouldn't feel comfortable riding that close to traffic. I doubt she would take star metro, because the next bus doesn't come for almost an hour. And the city commission meeting that night, what if it last past seven o'clock? I don't think the night bus takes her anywhere near her house. So I would ask you to consider that we've effectively already made the decisions where $1,000 a month automobile allowance, the city manager,
[1:00:29] here, sadly, the only obvious choice.
[1:00:35] Thank you.
[1:00:36] Our next speaker, please.
[1:00:38] Our next speaker is Dodon Mjonssen,
[1:00:40] who will be followed by Tiffany Hill.
[1:00:45] Your name and address for the record, please.
[1:00:51] Dodon Mjonssen, 21-21 Trest Scott Drive.
[1:00:56] I congratulate the newly appointed city manager
[1:01:00] for her many years of excellent service
[1:01:03] to the city of Tallahassee.
[1:01:05] However, I strongly disagree with the rushed and flawed process that resulted in her appointment.
[1:01:16] I further oppose the language in her contract requiring a supermajority vote to hold her accountable to her contract.
[1:01:29] The only appointed official to date with that distinction is the Inspector General,
[1:01:40] and it required a ballot initiative and a vote by the public to make that possible.
[1:01:50] To date, there has been no change in the city charter that would allow that to be
[1:01:59] extended to the other three appointed officials.
[1:02:05] Further, the city manager's contracts throughout Florida are at will employees requiring only a majority vote to hire and terminate.
[1:02:23] I question whether the contract complies with the Tallahassee City Charter.
[1:02:32] This city has voted on numerous important issues facing the public and it only required to this date a majority vote of the City Commission.
[1:02:50] It required only a majority vote to put her in office, and it should require only a majority vote if there is a reason for a termination.
[1:03:07] Thank you.
[1:03:08] Next speaker, please, if Nehill is next, and then Stanley Sims.
[1:03:23] Your name and address for the Reckon Police.
[1:03:25] Hi, I am Dr. Tiffany Hill, 1401 Lola Drive.
[1:03:30] I'm standing before you today to voice my strong opposition to the proposed employment agreement for our new city manager.
[1:03:41] While I'm going to respect your selection process,
[1:03:45] The contract before us is physically irresponsible and
[1:03:50] lacks the necessary safeguards to protect taxpayers of the city.
[1:03:55] First, let's talk about the salary.
[1:03:57] A base of 317,000 incident credibly high starting point.
[1:04:03] When we look at this figure, we have to ask, does it include adjustments for
[1:04:08] the rising costs of living and that our residents are struggling and that our own residents are struggling with.
[1:04:18] If this salary is being set in a vacuum without a clear transparent link to current economic realities and
[1:04:25] the performance benchmarks, we are doing a disservice to the public.
[1:04:30] So furthermore, I am deeply concerned by the inclusion of the thousand monthly automobile allowance.
[1:04:38] If you have a fleet on your property, and I'm sure, you know, with me being an outreach specialist that worked for the federal government,
[1:04:48] whether I drove that car or not, insurance is actually going to get paid regardless.
[1:04:54] So I don't see why $1,000 monthly allowance is going to be allowed for somebody to drive their own vehicle.
[1:05:02] That is a lot considering that this person is already making more than what the current city manager and a lot of other city managers in the state of Florida are making.
[1:05:17] Perhaps most alarming, however, is the structure of this contract regarding accountability.
[1:05:23] We've been asked to approve, you are being asked to approve a five year term that requires a two third supermajority vote
[1:05:31] just to dismiss the city manager.
[1:05:34] By setting such a high bar for termination,
[1:05:37] we are effectively stripping that commission,
[1:05:42] your commission of its ability to hold
[1:05:44] the city manager accountable.
[1:05:47] Finally, there's no mention of a probationary period.
[1:05:51] As a previous federal employee, we've always had,
[1:05:55] at least a year, probationary period
[1:05:59] because it's just because someone worked in the city does not mean that they are capable of
[1:06:06] doing the job. So you don't want to lock yourselves into a contract that you cannot get out if
[1:06:13] this person is not performing. So therefore I really would appreciate you all listening to the
[1:06:21] public at this time, and tabling it and taking it back to HR to reorganize this contract.
[1:06:29] You're at three minutes.
[1:06:30] Thank you.
[1:06:31] Thank you.
[1:06:32] Our next speaker, please.
[1:06:33] Stanley Sims, and then Jordan Strickland, and we have two more speakers following that.
[1:06:37] We've had a couple of added.
[1:06:38] Okay, your name and address for the record please.
[1:06:40] Stanley Sims, still hanging out at Barack Obama way.
[1:06:49] First off, let me say, you know, this.
[1:06:55] Well, this won't be our last time.
[1:06:57] Well, I'll see you October 5th down at Federal Building.
[1:07:02] But I
[1:07:07] had a conversation with two of your colleagues
[1:07:09] during the meeting, Greek and I'm not going to give their names.
[1:07:14] I walked up to him and I said, I'm actually really surprised
[1:07:18] you when I supported the pick of Karen.
[1:07:24] other stuff was said but keep it there. He told me he said in ten years I have expected
[1:07:33] the unexpected from me.
[1:07:38] Whatever I do I stand on it publicly. I signed my name to it.
[1:07:46] I got calls. First, Mr. Madeline, I had to let Miss Ernestine know that you weren't a mayor
[1:07:52] Yeah, she was upset because you told me change this ain't no change, but
[1:08:01] I just don't understand
[1:08:02] Mr. Mayor was after we all speak and if you'll write a note, how come the city manager gets the
[1:08:09] entitlement of the base salary of the person that she's feeling because my wife didn't get that
[1:08:15] when she was hired. I didn't get that. I didn't find out who was before me and how much they were
[1:08:24] the city actually told me we can, even though you overqualified, we can only give you 10%.
[1:08:32] I've
[1:08:36] got to withdraw my support for Karen because I don't think we can afford her.
[1:08:44] We just gave 171 city employees a paradise vacation.
[1:08:56] I don't even think Google give out $61,000 pay raises.
[1:09:01] other
[1:09:07] thing, you have really raised her in a very peculiar spot.
[1:09:14] Thirty seconds.
[1:09:15] And the reason I chose Karen because I thought that the least damage would be done with her,
[1:09:23] because it would be unfair for you to pick a new city manager.
[1:09:28] And in the event they would have to undo it, it would be great a harm for people
[1:09:32] that live far away than someone here.
[1:09:38] You did a very disservice to Karen since you want to own negotiating this contract.
[1:09:44] You said her a three minute death.
[1:09:46] Thank you.
[1:09:47] I'd like to speak to your police.
[1:09:49] Jordan Strickland followed by Cheryl Collier Brown.
[1:09:57] Your name and address for the record for Jordan Strickland, 2204 out soon to drive 323 on 9.
[1:10:03] So my name is Jordan Strickland.
[1:10:04] I was born and raised here in Tallahassee and in 2016 I enlisted in the United States Air Force.
[1:10:08] And during that time, they instilled three different core values in me.
[1:10:13] Integrity first, service before self, and excellence in all we do.
[1:10:17] I came back to home to tell I see expecting to find those same values in the people who lead the city.
[1:10:22] But instead, I'm looking at a contract that would allow the city manager to only be removed on a super majority vote.
[1:10:32] Let's be honest about the timing of this.
[1:10:33] The city is roughly two months away from an election that is probably going to reshape the look of this commission.
[1:10:40] And instead, I'm looking, sorry, sorry, let's, voters are about to have their say on who leads this city going forward.
[1:10:50] And instead of letting that election run its course, the majority of this commission is racing to lock in a decision that ties the hands of whoever comes next.
[1:10:58] That's not service before self, that's self before service.
[1:11:01] If this city manager is doing a good job, a future commission would have no reason to remove her.
[1:11:08] But if she isn't, and if there's a real problem that comes forth, it would take four out
[1:11:14] of five of you to remove that individual.
[1:11:17] I don't believe that that's protecting stability.
[1:11:20] I think that's protecting a bad decision from accountability.
[1:11:24] You were elected to do a job.
[1:11:26] Part of that job is trusting the voters and trusting the people who come after you to make
[1:11:30] their own decisions.
[1:11:32] Tying their hands, because you're worried about, they might not make the same decision
[1:11:36] that you would, is the opposite of integrity, is the opposite of service, and it is the opposite
[1:11:41] of excellence.
[1:11:42] I ask for you to remove that clause, vote no, whatever you've got to do to it, and let
[1:11:48] the people of Tallahassee elect a commission that they want to lead this city.
[1:11:53] Thank you.
[1:11:54] I yield my time.
[1:11:55] Thank you.
[1:11:56] All right, next speaker, please.
[1:11:57] Cheryl, call your brown, and she will be followed by Delilah Pierre.
[1:12:02] here.
[1:12:07] Name an address for the record please.
[1:12:10] That one was for Bar Street. I think you all can hear my teacher voice as I approach
[1:12:13] the bar. I've sat here and listened through all of this and ran to there's some pros
[1:12:20] and cons, whatever. But it's time personally for me to say it's time to move on. The selection
[1:12:28] has been done. We need to move on. Yes, the election is coming. It may change the diet,
[1:12:35] that the look of the commission are well and good.
[1:12:39] I think Karen will be a great choice
[1:12:42] being in full of the climate
[1:12:43] that has been going on regarding the commission meetings,
[1:12:46] commission elections,
[1:12:48] the selection of the city manager.
[1:12:50] So let's move on.
[1:12:52] We got other things in the front pan need to be fried
[1:12:55] and I'm waiting for us to get started with a new diet.
[1:12:59] If it is, and we'll deal with it then.
[1:13:02] I didn't have come up here to say,
[1:13:03] And yeah, your name, I just come to add that I am happy.
[1:13:07] I'm ready for us to move on.
[1:13:09] It's time for other things to occur.
[1:13:11] Thank you.
[1:13:12] Thank you.
[1:13:12] Next speaker, please.
[1:13:14] Next speaker is Delilah Pierre.
[1:13:24] Your name and address for the record, please.
[1:13:26] Hi, my name is Delilah.
[1:13:28] I am a member of the Tasi Alliance Against Races
[1:13:30] in Political Repression, and my address is exempt.
[1:13:34] I'm here to talk about the new city manager, Candid,
[1:13:36] and I think I should just be forthright and straightforward.
[1:13:38] forward. Let's think about the most cynical way to view this, and I think the most cynical
[1:13:43] way to view this is that the reason why they're pushing through Karen Jumanville, who I really
[1:13:47] don't know anything about, I can't say much about her, but the reason why they're pushing her
[1:13:51] and a process that's unprecedented is because instead of allowing the people of Tallahassee to have
[1:13:55] the time to think about a city manager candidate that's best for everyone, city commissioner John
[1:14:00] daily wants to appoint a city manager who's best for him before he leaves office.
[1:14:07] Now, unfortunately, due to the constant actions you've done, whether that's limiting public comment
[1:14:13] or making it more and more difficult for people to speak of the city commission meetings,
[1:14:17] or using your power as mayor and at the dias to silence your fellow commissioners,
[1:14:22] I believe the most cynical option because your behavior shows the most cynical option is true.
[1:14:26] The city manager position is supposed to be a position that answers to the city commissioners,
[1:14:31] but city manager risk owed during his entire appointment has only answered to himself and the rich in the city of Tallahassee.
[1:14:37] I can't think of one good thing he's done for the city except maybe he helped put up a few signs, I guess.
[1:14:43] The city manager should not be a position that supersedes the rights and needs of the majority of people in Tallahassee.
[1:14:49] It should be a position that answers to the needs of people in Tallahassee.
[1:14:52] I want a city manager who's not getting a vote of one point, something by two members of the City Commission.
[1:14:58] The only members of the City Commission, by the way,
[1:15:00] Aye, who are the ones who stand against the city manager's constant alliance with the worst sectors of Tallahassee, that prohibit and inhibits development, and stop our city from having everything that we need. This process needs to be more comprehensive. When we choose a city manager, there should be more public options for people to speak to them, and the public should have a chance to question the city manager candidate. I don't want to just see a park meeting greet from 4 to 6 p.m.
[1:15:29] I'm on a Tuesday, I want to see a real process that gives people power that lets people have to say over who the city manager is.
[1:15:37] And if Karen is so great, then awesome, let's have her hear with everyone else.
[1:15:42] So people can ask her questions and talk to her and see her approach and development for the city.
[1:15:47] But I feel that City Commissioner John Daly, City Commissioner Curtis Richardson, and
[1:15:52] City Commissioner Dinewam's Cox, who will most likely be the three yes votes for this position.
[1:15:56] don't really care that much about that.
[1:15:59] They care more about playing politics.
[1:16:01] They care more about submitting their power, and they care more about having whatever dangers
[1:16:06] affect on their city they can before inevitably some of them are pushed out of office.
[1:16:11] Thank you.
[1:16:13] Next speaker please.
[1:16:14] Mayor, that was the last speaker on this item.
[1:16:16] Is there anybody else here in Chambers that would like to speak on this item?
[1:16:20] Anybody else has not had the opportunity to speak, that would like to speak on this item.
[1:16:24] All right, we've had 11 public, sorry?
[1:16:28] Oh, sure, please come join us and if you wouldn't mind just fill out a card after the fact and you name an address for the record, please.
[1:16:36] Doug Han, I live on Florida Avenue here, just a quick note of federal mileage for business is 76 cents a mile.
[1:16:48] Now, at $1,000 a month, you're expecting your city in a true drive of $15,789 miles into
[1:16:56] the performance of her duties, rather than to be in the office.
[1:17:00] Thank you.
[1:17:00] Thank you.
[1:17:07] Any other public comment?
[1:17:09] Anybody else here that would like to speak?
[1:17:12] All right.
[1:17:13] To begin the conversation, I will go ahead and make the motion for option number one is
[1:17:17] very second to the motion on the table for discussion.
[1:17:21] Second.
[1:17:21] Seconded by Mayor Pro Tem, so I've been up for discussion.
[1:17:24] Commissioner Porter.
[1:17:25] Thank you, Mr. Mayor.
[1:17:27] I'd like to start, first of all just by saying, as far as I'm concerned,
[1:17:32] this is absolutely nothing to do with Dr. Trumanville.
[1:17:35] I wouldn't support this for any candidate, even if it was one who I had
[1:17:39] supported in the process that we enacted last week.
[1:17:45] I do want to ask the city attorney to weigh in on some of, I spoke to her this morning with questions and concerns about the city charter and the contract and I wanted to hear, I wanted to give her an opportunity to address that.
[1:18:03] Madam attorney.
[1:18:04] Thank you commissioner.
[1:18:06] So as I mentioned, the legal issue that is raised here, the guidance that we have is somewhat limited.
[1:18:14] I'm unable to bring any opinions or case law that are exactly on point.
[1:18:20] So, what I need to do is to sort of rely on general government concepts and precedent.
[1:18:25] So, I think the issue is, is it, I think the question that you're asking commissioners,
[1:18:30] is it legal to require a supermajority in this context, in this contract?
[1:18:37] And I think, you know, I'll start by saying our charter is silent on that issue.
[1:18:42] There is nothing in the charter that specifies when the City Commission has to have a simple majority versus a super, it's just not addressed.
[1:18:54] And as you know, the city manager serves at the pleasure of the City Commission.
[1:19:01] So I will say that the default interpretation of a charter provision that is silent is likely to be a simple majority.
[1:19:11] And the years of practice here at the city would also suggest that the actions of the city commission are by city by simple majority.
[1:19:24] So if that were true, then the charter would prohibit by implication a supermajority.
[1:19:33] But, again, the charter is silent, so, and there is no guidance, I was unable to locate
[1:19:40] any guidance that says, with absolute certainty, that at the pleasure means a simple
[1:19:47] majority.
[1:19:48] So I can't speak with certainty that there is not some room for other interpretation.
[1:19:54] The other way, of course, of looking at it is that, because there is no explicit prohibition,
[1:19:59] prohibition, then it's not prohibited as a function of home rule and that the contract
[1:20:07] term for a supermajority for removal is simply that. It's a term of employment.
[1:20:15] So I think that argument may rely on the idea that the charter is sort of the minimum and
[1:20:26] And that the city commission itself acting as a body has the authority to impose different requirements on itself.
[1:20:36] I will say that as to the second point, there have been recent examples of city commissions.
[1:20:44] Fernandina Beach is one and actually just last night, Marathon, Florida, both past their city councils past executive contracts.
[1:20:57] with the supermajority for removal.
[1:21:00] So that suggests to me not necessarily that that's right,
[1:21:04] those have not been tested yet.
[1:21:07] So we don't have, I don't have a case,
[1:21:09] I don't have a Supreme Court decision that says
[1:21:12] that those were tested and the court decided one way or the other.
[1:21:16] But they are precedent and they are out there.
[1:21:18] And I think it's, I thought it was important to bring that
[1:21:20] to the commission.
[1:21:38] I don't know if I could say that in every case since the inception.
[1:21:42] Okay.
[1:21:42] When have we not?
[1:21:44] I can't identify over the course of history.
[1:21:47] I don't know.
[1:21:47] In the past, in the city of Tennessee, have we ever interpreted that to mean anything but a simple majority?
[1:21:55] I don't think we've ever been faced with this specific question, but probably not.
[1:21:59] On point two years ago, when we changed the contract of the Inspector General to a supermajority,
[1:22:08] based on your legal opinion, that we could do it.
[1:22:11] And I wasn't a little long to sending vote, because I thought we should do all of that.
[1:22:14] Is it not also a legal opinion?
[1:22:16] I've got more commission to put a hold on just a second.
[1:22:17] It's not on point.
[1:22:18] It's not on point.
[1:22:19] So, yes, we can point to a specific example in recent history as of two years ago, based
[1:22:26] on your legal opinion, that we could do it and did do it, and then the Citizens Advisory
[1:22:32] Council for the Charter Review Commission then said, we need to take this language and put
[1:22:37] it before the citizens to vote upon, put it in the charter, and it passed.
[1:22:42] And I'm hoping that a future commission will follow the exact same steps and take the language of the city manager and a future charter review commission will put it in the charter as well.
[1:22:56] But to answer your question, yes, we do have a very specific example in recent history based on your legal opinion of the action that we took in regards to inspector general.
[1:23:06] May I respond, Mr. Chair?
[1:23:08] I don't recall, I'm not saying that we didn't have a conversation about this particular
[1:23:15] legal issue, but the city inspector general's contract was not amended until after
[1:23:22] the charter was passed.
[1:23:26] There was discussion about his, about the two-thirds and how he considered that to be
[1:23:32] the sort of best practice for Inspector Generals.
[1:23:35] But I do not believe that the contract was actually amended until after the charter.
[1:23:39] Well, Madam Attorney, then we've got a conflicting opinion and I appreciate Commissioner
[1:23:44] Porter's position and I appreciate the advice that you gave her.
[1:23:48] The advice that the Acting City Attorney, Ludor Vell, gave me a week ago when we met.
[1:23:53] And the advice that you gave me yesterday, when we met, is contrary to the advice that
[1:24:00] you gave Commissioner Porter. Now, I am still of, I am still of the opinion that we can
[1:24:06] and we should and I support motion on the table. Under humoral authority in the Florida
[1:24:11] Constitution, anything that is not legislatively prohibited is allowed for local governments
[1:24:17] to establish their principles. And under the same theory of our charter, unless legislatively
[1:24:23] prohibited in the city charter, we are allowed to move forward. And so again, the reason why
[1:24:29] we took action with the Inspector General the way we did.
[1:24:32] The reason why there is no case law instead of Florida that you could find in point two.
[1:24:37] Another example, for Dana Beach recently with their city attorney putting in supermajority
[1:24:42] language, as recently as last night with the city of marathon putting in supermajority
[1:24:48] language with the hiring of their city manager contract as well.
[1:24:53] There is precedent, there is precedent here, I believe our charter speaks to it.
[1:24:59] because it doesn't prohibit it, under home rule authority, and I'm prepared to move forward.
[1:25:04] Commissioner Porta, you have been generous with your time, you have the floor.
[1:25:07] Thank you, Mr. Mayor.
[1:25:11] I want to clarify for the public as well, and for the record, the reason that we move forward with a supermajority requirement for termination for the Inspector General.
[1:25:22] The Inspector General has the authority to investigate elected officials.
[1:25:28] Can you imagine being in the position of investigating your bosses?
[1:25:33] That's got to be really tough, right?
[1:25:35] You're probably not going to want to do it if you know how easily your bosses can fire you.
[1:25:39] So the best practice, as recommended by the associations that represent inspectors general,
[1:25:46] is not only that their termination be a supermajority, but also that there be a cause.
[1:25:53] They have to be terminated with cause.
[1:25:54] and there has to be an appeal process.
[1:25:57] The city manager is not designed to be independent.
[1:26:02] The inspector general is, the city manager,
[1:26:05] the role is administrative.
[1:26:07] It is to serve at the pleasure of the city commission
[1:26:10] who the voters of Tallahassee elect.
[1:26:16] This is not a best practice.
[1:26:18] It is not recommended by the International City
[1:26:20] Managers Association.
[1:26:22] It is not recommended by the National Civic League
[1:26:25] who awarded us the All-America City Award.
[1:26:29] I recognize that managers need protection.
[1:26:33] They need employment protection, as does the ICMA,
[1:26:36] as does this National Civic League.
[1:26:38] That is why they are awarded very generous
[1:26:41] severance packages.
[1:26:43] 20 weeks, do the math, $317,000, starting salary,
[1:26:49] 20 weeks, severance.
[1:26:52] This is a government.
[1:26:54] this is not a country club. We don't just do favors for people like this.
[1:27:01] No, and I'm not talking about anyone in particular. I'm genuinely not.
[1:27:06] No one's job is more important than the well-being and the voice of this community.
[1:27:12] Okay?
[1:27:18] I also genuinely believe, you know, we talk a lot about our council manager form of government that we have.
[1:27:26] When I was in graduate school, I thought I wanted to be a city manager.
[1:27:30] And I was given the Beherald Farmer Scholarship Award by the Florida City County Managers Association in recognition of my interest in city management and my academic career up to that point.
[1:27:44] I really feel like this violates the spirit of the Council Manager form of government that is intended to be responsive.
[1:27:56] Everything about our government, our system of government, Robert's rules of order is to ensure that the minority are heard but that the will of the majority prevails.
[1:28:08] rules. This does not change that. No one in here probably will come as a surprise that
[1:28:16] I have rated our current city manager with poor scores and his evaluations. He's been my
[1:28:25] city manager for the past six years. We already have a system that works. So for this to come
[1:28:34] on the agenda, and I would like, I apologize, but I mean, I feel like I need clarity from
[1:28:40] the City Attorney because when I spoke to her this morning, you know, it was, what she
[1:28:46] relayed to me was that she was not part of this specific conversation, and that she spent
[1:28:51] the evening researching this herself. I'd also like to say to the governments, it is extremely
[1:28:56] rare to require supermajority, and the city that I saw, the cities, at least one of them,
[1:29:04] that I researched that has that, that recently passed it, they did that because they were
[1:29:08] having trouble keeping city managers, attracting city managers.
[1:29:13] So in all of this discussion, whether it's salary, whether it's the supermajority, you
[1:29:19] want, of course, to hire the best, to retain the best.
[1:29:22] But the question needs to also be like, what purpose does this serve?
[1:29:29] Is there a problem that we're trying to fix here?
[1:29:32] There's a lot of talk about depoliticizing this process.
[1:29:37] On the one hand, I agree, on the other hand, this is politics.
[1:29:41] This is what we do.
[1:29:42] There will always be elections, and I do think it's entirely inappropriate to tie the hands of future commissioners.
[1:29:50] And I'm not even talking about in two months, I'm talking about in five or ten years.
[1:29:55] There is no justification that I have heard that convinces
[1:30:00] It's me that decades of precedent, that the professional associations that govern city managers across this entire country, there's no, gives me no reason to think that this is a best practice, that this is standard. And on top of all of that, we have to reckon with the fact that our city attorney doesn't really know because there is no precedent for this. It hasn't been legally tested. That opens us up.
[1:30:31] up to litigation and all kinds of other, I don't even know why we would go down this direction with that level of uncertainty, especially given the other concerns.
[1:30:44] So I would like to make a substitute motion and I'm willing to compromise on everything else.
[1:30:53] I have said from the beginning, I don't believe this process should have taken place before the election.
[1:30:58] I do not believe that that salary is appropriate, but I'm willing to support a contract today with a simple majority for termination.
[1:31:13] So that would be my motion, that we move forward with this contract agreement with the change that the termination does not require a supermajority vote.
[1:31:24] Well, there is a substitute motion on the table made by Commissioner Porter.
[1:31:29] Simply, let me make sure I get this correctly, maintaining all points of the contract and
[1:31:34] changing the termination language to a simple majority from a supermajority.
[1:31:39] Yes.
[1:31:39] Okay, I'll start second to the motion.
[1:31:41] Second by Commissioner Mallow.
[1:31:43] Comment, Mr. Mallow.
[1:31:45] Thank you, Mr. Mayor, and thank you for bringing the motion, Commissioner Porter.
[1:31:50] to me, this entire process has been intentionally designed by the mayor to divide this commission every step of the way.
[1:32:01] The community spoke loud and clear they wanted this decision to wait until after the elections.
[1:32:06] Five of the six candidates for office on the November ballot asked for the City Commission to wait until after the election.
[1:32:14] Nevertheless, the majority wanted to move forward with this election process.
[1:32:18] A simple majority, three two, I respect the will of the majority of this board.
[1:32:24] When this came back, I requested that we give a one year contract to Dr. Jimenville,
[1:32:30] so the next commission could have an opportunity to get to know her, work with her for an entire year,
[1:32:36] and then make a decision if they would like to move forward, or if they'd like to go back to a search process.
[1:32:42] This provide continuity and stability for this government that is desperately needed.
[1:32:48] That compromise was rejected by a simple majority, a three-two vote of this board.
[1:32:55] For 200 years, city commission precedent, local code, and state law have shown that a simple majority is how a city commission expresses its will.
[1:33:08] So a contract can't not alter what's in the city charter.
[1:33:16] The city charter is the constitution of the city of Tallahassee.
[1:33:20] Just like a law that the governor passes can't change what's in the constitution and they get challenged and struck down, this is no different.
[1:33:27] A contract inserting this into the contract can't change what's expressly laid out in the city charter and it is not silent.
[1:33:35] The City Charter says the City Manager serves at the pleasure of the City Commission.
[1:33:43] The pleasure of the City Commission is a three to vote.
[1:33:46] We have 200 years of history knowing what the pleasure of the City Commission is on every item we've ever discussed.
[1:33:52] The City Commission has fired previous City managers on a three to two vote exercising the pleasure of the City Commission.
[1:34:02] There's a long history in this government of how this operates.
[1:34:06] What this attempt to do is circumvent the charter review process.
[1:34:11] Mayor Daly called for a charter review process.
[1:34:13] There was a committee that brought forward recommendations.
[1:34:16] Commissioners brought forward individual recommendations as well.
[1:34:21] Silent on whether we should change this rule.
[1:34:24] It was never brought forward for discussion.
[1:34:25] It was never put to the boarders, which is required by the city charter to have change.
[1:34:31] That is the power of the people.
[1:34:33] This is not our government, it's the people's government, and that's dictated by the City Charter.
[1:34:38] So no matter what the vote is today, it's invalid.
[1:34:44] You can't take away powers of the City Commission by way of contract language.
[1:34:49] It wouldn't stand up.
[1:34:51] So the question would be, and Madam Attorney, a year from now, if they pass this contract language,
[1:34:59] And three commissioners move to terminate a city manager.
[1:35:03] Where does that leave the city of Salahassee?
[1:35:06] Well, I'm adjourned.
[1:35:07] Thank you, Mr. Mayor.
[1:35:07] I believe that, again, I don't have, these are questions that are not, you know, answered in current law.
[1:35:18] But I believe that in that circumstance that the city commission could, could, like they could any contract, well, not any contract.
[1:35:25] But they could act with a 3-2 majority to end the contract, but that would be a breach
[1:35:33] of the contract.
[1:35:35] That would be a breach of the provision of the contract that requires a supermajority
[1:35:39] to do so.
[1:35:39] That would mean that the appointed, the official who is the subject of the contract would
[1:35:46] have breach of contract rights.
[1:35:48] Primarily, they would be the severance pay which the contract provides to the appointed
[1:35:54] an official upon a termination without cause, but it is possible that there could be some other contract
[1:36:02] damages that might be recoverable. I can't, with the short notice, I can't really give you an example of what that might be,
[1:36:11] but it could cost the city more, as I guess my point, if there's a breach of contract.
[1:36:15] Okay. Okay. And the point I'm making and confirmed by your opinion is this contract cannot change the authority expressly given to the City Commission in the charter.
[1:36:27] When we, if that decision were made in the future, the authority comes from the charter, it does not come from the contract.
[1:36:34] And since that authority cannot be changed in the contract, this is invalid language.
[1:36:39] And it's not just the city that would have to uphold to this.
[1:36:42] It would be up to anybody who enters a contract with a municipality needs to know the limitations of the city's contracting authority.
[1:36:51] We don't have the ability to put this into a contract because it's counter to our city's charter.
[1:36:57] So all that to say, this commission will express its will, but I believe this has been wholly politicized by the mayor has never been about an individual for 200 years.
[1:37:12] This city has maintained the way it hires and fires its city manager in 60 days before an outgoing mayor goes out.
[1:37:19] He wants to throw a monkey wrench in that whole process.
[1:37:22] It doesn't make any sense.
[1:37:24] The inspector general knew the limitations of a contract in the city charter.
[1:37:31] The city charter brought it forward, brought it to the voters and it was approved.
[1:37:36] If this is a change, this board would like to proceed, put it on the ballot, let the voters decide.
[1:37:40] Thank you, Mr. Mayor.
[1:37:42] There is a substitute motion on the table made by Commissioner Porter, seconded by Commissioner
[1:37:46] Matlow, changing the termination language from a supermajority to a simple majority.
[1:37:51] Any other comments?
[1:37:54] Are we ready to vote?
[1:37:56] Okay.
[1:37:57] For the substitute amendment on the table, all those in favor signify by saying aye.
[1:38:03] Aye.
[1:38:03] All those opposed?
[1:38:05] Naye.
[1:38:06] Naye.
[1:38:06] In the substitute motion fails, three to two.
[1:38:14] We can, if we can have order, please that would be great, thank you, I appreciate it.
[1:38:20] And we are back on to the original motion, Commissioner Williams.
[1:38:23] Cox, you are recognized.
[1:38:24] Thank you, Mr. Mayor.
[1:38:25] Let me just be very clear, this is about here, it's her contract, it's a contract between-
[1:38:34] Who do you represent?
[1:38:35] Okay, I'm going to ask one more time that if we could please have some order, we allowed the public to speak.
[1:38:41] Can we listen to everyone?
[1:38:42] And we're under commission discussion, and please, if you would let us continue with the discussion
[1:38:48] and continue with the vote without the interruption from the audience, I'd appreciate that.
[1:38:54] I do not want to have to clear the chambers, Mr. Williams-Cox.
[1:38:57] Thank you, Mr. Mayor.
[1:38:59] This is about here, and this is a contract that we have her name on it.
[1:39:04] This is a 27 year, City of Tallahassee employee currently serving as Deputy City Manager.
[1:39:10] the terms of the contract excluding the supermajority, the money would be the same money that if Reese was going to continue to be here would be the money that he would earn, court blame.
[1:39:23] There is a savings because Reese actually drives a fleet truck, okay?
[1:39:31] Karen will be driving her own car with $1,000 a month allowance.
[1:39:38] But the supermajority, unfortunately, is where we seem to be headed in this state and
[1:39:51] in this country because of the political climate.
[1:39:55] Now let's just be clear, Commissioner Matlow, you have been very vocal on social media
[1:40:01] you about what you would do if you become mayor through the city manager that we were select.
[1:40:09] So you have put that out there, you said what you would do.
[1:40:14] So that doesn't sound like someone who is looking to move in this-
[1:40:18] That doesn't look like someone who is trying to bring this city together.
[1:40:25] We're trying to stabilize this city by making sure we have some folks in place who know
[1:40:30] how to run this city because they've worked their way up through the city and know the different parts of the city.
[1:40:37] That to me is worth more than any amount of money.
[1:40:45] Unfortunately, it is during a campaign season.
[1:40:49] But we cannot govern our community by campaigns.
[1:40:54] We've got to govern them by the stability of what residents expect us to have.
[1:40:59] This is a well-run city, whatever you think about it, it is a well-run city.
[1:41:04] I work with the 411 city towns and villages, and folks want to know how are we doing what we're doing in Tallahassee.
[1:41:11] It is a great place to live working play, and I want to be a part of making sure that it continues in that way.
[1:41:18] And to de-politicize this for our appointed officials, all of them, I believe this is the way to go.
[1:41:27] It's just said at this moment in time, because someone said to me the timing, the timing is contract time.
[1:41:34] It's not election time, it's contract.
[1:41:36] It is time for a contract for a city manager.
[1:41:40] So you're going in, anybody, I'm not an attorney, but I've done some contracts before.
[1:41:46] And if you're going to do a contract, the terms of the contract are done at the time of negotiation.
[1:41:51] And the negotiation has occurred.
[1:41:53] And these are the terms that she has agreed to.
[1:41:56] Now, the other candidates may have found themselves in the same way, because we heard from them that they've been watching and watching our commission meetings.
[1:42:04] They've been watching what's happening in the city, and some of them, some folks decided not to apply.
[1:42:10] So, you're right, Commissioner Porter, cities are having trouble attracting and keeping last night.
[1:42:17] Someone got fired last night, I've seen the manager got fired last night, and then they decided to do this.
[1:42:22] So I don't have a problem supporting the supermajority to keep our city moving forward together and to be a stable city.
[1:42:34] We're the capital city to the third largest state.
[1:42:36] We cannot fumble the ball on this.
[1:42:38] We cannot move backwards.
[1:42:40] We've got to go forward, forward, ever, backwards, never.
[1:42:44] And I just believe that this is the direction that we need to be going.
[1:42:48] It also not only stabilizes the city, it stabilizes the workforce because people are working for these individuals.
[1:42:58] And they need to know that their job is safe and secure, no matter who gets to become mayor or gets to become whatever.
[1:43:05] They need to know that their jobs are going to be in a safe place, all they got to do is do the job and be held accountable.
[1:43:11] And no, I don't think anyone here has a problem being held accountable to their job.
[1:43:17] Unfortunately, we have to now look at safeguards to protect people in their jobs so
[1:43:23] that they don't feel intimidated or harassed because I've heard that from some of them.
[1:43:27] So that's where I stand.
[1:43:30] I support the motion on the table, whatever happens happens, but
[1:43:34] I just believe that in my heart of hearts and in the research that I've done with around this state,
[1:43:41] with people that I work with, mayors and commissioners from other cities.
[1:43:43] This is the direction that we're headed.
[1:43:46] It's unfortunate, but that's where we're headed.
[1:43:49] And we can stop it by doing what we need to do and
[1:43:53] not making these positions so the campaigns that are currently going on,
[1:43:59] the politicization of what we're doing here in our city.
[1:44:03] Elections and campaigns cannot run a city well.
[1:44:07] We've got to run this city professionally,
[1:44:09] And so that people get what they need regardless of who sits in the mayor's seat or who sits in the commission's seat.
[1:44:15] And that's where I stand.
[1:44:16] Commissioner Mallow, I'm sorry.
[1:44:18] Thank you, Mr. Mayor.
[1:44:19] Traditionally, a point of order is when another speaker is out of order and it gives you the opportunity to rule on that.
[1:44:26] We should not be directing individual comments that other commissioners should be directed to the mayor.
[1:44:30] Thank you, Mr. Mayor.
[1:44:30] That's great advice for the past eight years, but we haven't held that either.
[1:44:34] Commissioner Porter.
[1:44:37] You're the mayor, sir.
[1:44:39] Thank you, Mr. Mayor.
[1:44:42] I don't know, I don't see Dr. Jummanville, but I want to speak directly to you.
[1:44:48] This is your contract, as Commissioner Williams-Cox just said.
[1:44:52] I am asking you as a professional in your field and as the next city manager who reports to us.
[1:45:00] To reject this contract with a supermajority vote. So, I can't see you, but that is a direct question to Dr. Jummanville. I would like a response. Dr. Jummanville is not in chambers right now. But I'm sure she is probably watching out of chambers and we'll get back to you. Mayor Pro Tem, I would just suggest that
[1:45:29] If the Commissioner Porter if that's the direction that you would want to go, then the negotiations I would think, because that's what Mr.
[1:45:40] Jim and Dr. Jim and Ville has agreed to, that it would have to go back to the negotiations and see at that point, would have to say I can go forward without this provision in the contract.
[1:45:53] We can't sit here today and make that determination.
[1:45:58] The contract was agreed to in negotiations with the mayor.
[1:46:04] On point?
[1:46:05] On point, Mr. Board?
[1:46:07] Why can't we?
[1:46:08] Why can't she just say, I mean, we could have voted on my motion.
[1:46:12] If that motion had passed, that would have just been what it is.
[1:46:15] And then she still has to sign it.
[1:46:18] We can do whatever we, I mean doesn't, Madam City Attorney.
[1:46:22] Could we not, if Dr. Jimenville were here right now, and she said, I reject the supermajority
[1:46:30] contract, and I would like to ask that that be changed? Why couldn't we honor that?
[1:46:35] Oh, we could, but she doesn't agree to that.
[1:46:37] I understand, but my point is, if she were here, we could ask her that.
[1:46:43] But she's not here, so we can't ask her that and make that decision.
[1:46:48] But it's the contract before us.
[1:46:49] For her.
[1:46:50] That she has agreed upon.
[1:46:51] Right.
[1:46:52] Mayor Prattam, you still have the floor?
[1:46:53] Yeah, you know, it's just amazing to me that this is the sticking point in a contract for the city commission for the city of Tallahassee and the city manager, the selection of the city manager, the super majority to hire or fire, I just find it unbelievable that that's the sticking point.
[1:47:19] It's not the use of an automobile, it's not the salary, it's not the severance pay.
[1:47:27] It is a supermajority.
[1:47:32] I would feel comfortable if a supermajority were required because it suggests to this
[1:47:40] community that four people, four people out of the five agree that this person needs
[1:47:48] to be removed from office. I don't think it's unreasonable. It says to this community
[1:47:56] that four individuals that we have elected agree that this person needs to be removed
[1:48:03] from office. One person different than a simple majority. I just found it unbelievable
[1:48:11] that this is the argument that we're having and can't move forward on that one issue.
[1:48:18] I'm going to support the motion, and if a commission in the future wants to change it, then we can do that.
[1:48:28] But I think for right now, we move forward with the contract that has been negotiated and agreed upon.
[1:48:37] And that we don't sit here as a commission when we gave the mayor the authority to negotiate the contract.
[1:48:47] With the person that we selected out of this process to be our next City Commissioner or City Manager,
[1:48:58] I'm sorry, I just don't feel like we're in a position to do that, and I'd like to say I'm going to support motion on the floor.
[1:49:06] Motion on the table drops, number one, made by the mayor, seconded by, remind me, was it Mayor Pro Tem or Mayor Pro Tem for the contract that's presented Commissioner Matlow, you have the floor.
[1:49:17] Before, thank you, Mr. Mayor, interesting debate today, I would say, would it be unbelievable to require four votes of five to sell the community hospital?
[1:49:29] Would it be unbelievable to require four votes of five to sell the municipal golf course that are the burial grounds of former slaves from the plantation?
[1:49:38] Would it be unbelievable to require four votes to increase taxes year after year?
[1:49:47] Would it be unbelievable to require four votes to hire a city manager?
[1:50:00] This city has long been divided on a 32 vote.
[1:50:04] There has never been an attempt for compromise.
[1:50:07] That's why the public is lashing out the way that it is today.
[1:50:11] Now, I want you to imagine a different scenario where decisions made by the City Commission were not implemented.
[1:50:19] If three votes sold the hospital, but the City Manager wouldn't move forward with that sale.
[1:50:25] If three votes sold the golf course, and the City Manager would not move forward with that sale.
[1:50:31] If three votes decided to terminate the agreement with the county to provide fire services, but the City Manager refused to move forward.
[1:50:40] with that action, what then does the recourse of three votes on the City Commission have?
[1:50:47] You would have a completely unaccountable city management that would require four votes to terminate for not following the direction of the majority of the body.
[1:50:58] That is wrong and cannot stand.
[1:51:00] We already
[1:51:04] see this action play out today as Commissioner Porter has made several motions that have passed his body that have never been brought forward by the city manager.
[1:51:13] We're still waiting to this day, but she has no recourse because there's not a majority of this body that has been willing to hold the City Manager accountable.
[1:51:23] So I'm not going to support the motion on the table because I can't support a contract that has an invalid language that is contrary to our City Charter, but I will listen to the pleasure of the City Commission.
[1:51:38] Thank you, Mr. Mayor.
[1:51:38] Motion on table for option number one made by the mayor second by the mayor pro Tim
[1:51:42] all those in favor of the motion on table signify by saying aye aye all those opposed
[1:51:47] nay in the motion passes three to two with the mayor mayor pro Tim and
[1:51:51] Commissioner Williams Cox and the affirmative with Commissioner Matlow and
[1:51:56] Commissioner Porter in the negative motion passes I will execute the contract
[1:52:01] In fact, in writing with Dr. Jumman, as soon as we can get together after this meeting.
[1:52:09] Commissioner Porter, for a question.
[1:52:11] Thank you, Mr. Mayor.
[1:52:12] I meant to do this at the beginning of the meeting.
[1:52:14] I wanted to request that we move item 1201 to the end of policy formation and direction.
[1:52:23] It seems like 1201 might take more time and I don't want to keep 1202 and 1203 waiting.
[1:52:28] second.
[1:52:30] I said that one more time, I'm sorry.
[1:52:32] If we could move 1201?
[1:52:34] Oh, sure.
[1:52:34] Yes, yes.
[1:52:35] And?
[1:52:36] Take it up at the end.
[1:52:37] Sure.
[1:52:37] Absolutely.
[1:52:39] With that objection.
[1:52:40] Okay.
[1:52:41] We are now on the introduction of ordinance number 11.01, Madam Attorney.
[1:52:45] Thank you, Mr. Mayor.
[1:52:47] Item number 11.01 is the introduction of ordinance number 26-Z-12, an ordinance of the city of Tallahassee, Florida,
[1:52:55] the official zoning map of the city of Tallahassee, located on 3.75 acres located on the west side of Paul Russell Road,
[1:53:04] approximately 150 feet north of the interception with Paul Russell Road and Orange Avenue east on the official zoning map of the city of Tallahassee,
[1:53:13] changing the zoning classification of land from critical planning area to Paul Russell Road right of way abandonment planned unit development,
[1:53:23] providing for conflicts, severability, and an affected date.
[1:53:26] The recommended action is option one, introduce ordinance number 26-12, and set the first
[1:53:33] in only public hearing for October 21 at 6 p.m. in the City of Tallahassee City Commission
[1:53:39] Chambers at City Hall.
[1:53:41] All right, so there's no question here.
[1:53:42] I'm sorry, excuse me, if I could just make sure I comment that any exparte
[1:53:45] disclosures concerning this item are available via the hyperlink included in the agenda
[1:53:50] item as published in Board Docs.
[1:53:52] Excellent. There's no action that needs to be taken. We always take a ceremony.
[1:53:55] You'll vote just to add it into the record. Do we have any public comment on this item?
[1:54:00] Richard Robbie here is to answer questions, so no.
[1:54:03] I'll make a motion for the introduction. Is there a second?
[1:54:05] Seconded by Mayor Pro Tem. All those in favor signify by saying aye.
[1:54:09] Aye.
[1:54:09] All those opposed. Passes unanimously, five, zero. We are on item number 11.02, Madam Attorney.
[1:54:15] Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Item number 11.02 is the introduction of ordinance number 26-0-15.
[1:54:21] In ordinance of the city of Tallahassee, Florida, amending sections 21-66, 21-284, 21-402, and 21-403 of the code of general ordinances of the city of Tallahassee, relating to water and sewer service, including applicable fees, charges and rates, providing for conflicts, providing for severability, and providing an effective date.
[1:54:45] The recommended action is option one.
[1:54:48] Introduce ordinance number 26-0-15 that reflects changes to water and waste water rates,
[1:54:55] fees, and charges, and set the first and only public hearing for the City Commission meeting on September
[1:55:00] 23, 2026 at 6 p.m. in the City of Tallahassee City Commission Chambers at City Hall.
[1:55:07] Excellent. One more time, no formal action needs to be taken.
[1:55:10] We take ceremonial vote, just added into the record any public comment on this item?
[1:55:14] No, sir.
[1:55:15] I'll make the motion to accept.
[1:55:17] Seconded by the Mayor for a Tim, Commissioner Mattlet for comment.
[1:55:20] Thank you, Mr. Mayor, and I recognize this is the introduction, so I'll say my comments to the public hearing.
[1:55:26] But I did want to request, if not already, that the rate study be part of the agenda item,
[1:55:33] as well as an information on the sewer expansion cost associated with abandonment,
[1:55:38] and Meridian that we approved at our last meeting, that the single largest thing I hear about utility bills is the sewer fees continue to increase.
[1:55:48] People are super concerned about this, and I want to make sure we're looking to find savings and fees before increasing their bills yet again.
[1:55:55] Thank you, Mr. Mayor.
[1:55:55] So, now that Mayor Pratimfe, thank you Mayor, what I want the public that's here today
[1:56:04] to understand that we, as a commission, did not make those decisions on the increases.
[1:56:12] They were based on rate studies that were done by independent organizations.
[1:56:18] They have recommended just so that we have the funds so that we don't have to go back to the
[1:56:29] residents who are using those services to increase the fees, that it is an objective rating decision.
[1:56:39] And the recommendation is made to us in order to make sure that we can still provide quality services
[1:56:46] to our be paying public, and so that's how those decisions or what those decisions are
[1:56:55] being based on, not what I think or feel, but an actual objective rating assessment
[1:57:03] by objective organizations that we use for that purpose. Thank you, Mr. Mayor.
[1:57:10] Excellent. Okay, ceremonial vote. All those in favor of the motion on table signify by saying aye
[1:57:15] Aye. All those opposed passes unanimously five zero any other introduction of ordinances come before us today. No, Mr
[1:57:21] Mayor. We are on item number 12.02, Mr. Manager. Mr. Mayor, our growth management director John Reddick will introduce this item.
[1:57:35] Thank you. Good evening, Mayor and commissioners. Your direction, we brought for you this item requesting your approval to permanently rename
[1:57:43] portion of West Virginia Street to recognize Reverend Dr. Arby Holmes Jr.
[1:57:48] and his wife, Dr. Gloria P. Holmes.
[1:57:50] Reverend Holmes has served for decades as pastor of the historic Bethel Missionary Baptist Church.
[1:57:56] Under his leadership, Bethel has expanded its role beyond the church through initiatives
[1:58:00] focused on education, housing, economic development, financial opportunity, and community services.
[1:58:06] It includes the establishment and development of numerous community institutions and
[1:58:11] initiatives, including Bethel Christian Academy, Steel Collins Charter Middle School, Steel Collins All Male Charter Academy,
[1:58:19] Bethel Family Restaurant, Bethel Family Counseling Center, Housing for Senior Citizens of Bethel Towers,
[1:58:25] and Carolina Oak's Subdivision for First-Time Homeowners.
[1:58:28] Reverend Holmes's work has also supported economic development and
[1:58:32] financial opportunity in French town, including the establishment of the French town
[1:58:36] financial opportunity center through a partnership between Bethel, Missionary Baptist Church, and local credit unions.
[1:58:42] The service has extended beyond telehastic through leadership in faith-based and civic organizations and appointments, university boards, and statewide policy-making bodies by multiple Florida governors.
[1:58:55] His work has focused on strengthening families, expanding educational and economic opportunities, supporting the revitalization of the French town community.
[1:59:05] Dr. Gloria P. Holmes is devoted decades to education and community service and telehassy
[1:59:10] and throughout Florida after receiving a doctorate in the library and information studies
[1:59:14] from Florida State University.
[1:59:16] Her career has included service as an English teacher, library media specialist, director
[1:59:20] of educational media for DuVal and Leon County Public Schools, and assistant dean in the College
[1:59:25] of Education at Florida A&M University.
[1:59:28] Dr. Holmes has also played an integral role at Bethel Christian Academy established in 1992
[1:59:33] to as an educational outreach of Bethel Missionary Baptist Church
[1:59:37] and located along West Virginia Street.
[1:59:39] She served in administrative capacity of the Academy
[1:59:42] for more than two decades and contributed
[1:59:44] to its administration, curriculum development
[1:59:46] and educational mission.
[1:59:48] And in 2021, the Academy named its library,
[1:59:51] the Dr. Gloria P. Holmes Media Center
[1:59:53] in recognition of her longstanding commitment
[1:59:55] to education, leadership, and service.
[1:59:59] Together.
[2:00:00] The Reverend Dr. Arby Holmes, Jr., and Dr. Gloria P. Holmes have made significant contributions to the French town community in Tallahassee at large through education, faith-based leadership, community and economic development, housing, and service to families. The recommendation before he's to rename West Virginia Street between North Adams Street to the east and North Copeland Street to the west to be doctors, Arby, and Gloria P. Holmes Street. This segment is approximately 2,777 feet in length. The total of 17 property owners are
[2:00:29] are adjacent to the proposed segment, and 282 addresses would be updated to reflect the rename.
[2:00:34] With your approval, the renaming would officially go into effect starting October 24th this year.
[2:00:40] I'm available if you have any questions.
[2:00:41] Thank you, this is an exciting agenda item for us.
[2:00:46] Mr. Clerk, do we have any public comments?
[2:00:49] Yes, sir.
[2:00:50] Or probably about a half dozen.
[2:00:51] Let me just start off by saying if you are here in strong support of this agenda item, will you please stand to be recognized?
[2:01:04] I
[2:01:09] have a feeling this will probably be one of the quickest votes that we will take, but we will move forward with the public comment.
[2:01:16] Thank you, Mayor. Our first speaker is Liz Marbury, and then James Matthews will follow.
[2:01:22] Your name and address for the record, please.
[2:01:25] I'm Liz Marbury, 1363 East Tennessee Street.
[2:01:29] Good afternoon, Mayor Commissioners and local citizens.
[2:01:32] On behalf of Live Communications Inc, I'm honored to offer our wholehearted support for Reverend Dr.
[2:01:38] Arby Holmes, Jr., and Dr. Gloria P. Holmes.
[2:01:40] Two extraordinary servant leaders devoted to faith, family, community, and empowering others.
[2:01:45] For more than 50 years, the Capitol Outlook has been more than a newspaper.
[2:01:48] It has been a voice for our community, a platform that has informed, encouraged, and inspired generations.
[2:01:53] It's pages have told the stories that matter.
[2:01:56] We celebrated many accomplishments, addressed important issues,
[2:02:00] and have given people a place to be seen, heard, and valued.
[2:02:03] That same spirit of service is heard on our Howell-U-95.3 FM radio station
[2:02:07] through outstanding programming and our amazing guests,
[2:02:10] along with Reverend Holmes, himself,
[2:02:13] our airways have provided meaningful conversations,
[2:02:16] information, encouragement, and connection.
[2:02:18] That is the very essence of Reverend and Dr. Holmes,
[2:02:22] herself. God placed them, placed in their hands, to help somebody. God placed using what
[2:02:29] God has placed in their hands to help somebody else. That, their service reaches far beyond
[2:02:34] the newspaper pages and radio microphones. Through Bethel Missionary Baptist Church, Christian
[2:02:39] Education, Community Initiatives, Advocacy, and their unwavering commitment to people,
[2:02:44] they have spent decades opening doors, building bridges, speaking to those who needed a voice
[2:02:48] and creating opportunities for others. Their legacy is the people they helped, the last
[2:02:52] as they've touched in the community they inspired.
[2:02:55] Reverend Dr. Arby Holmes, Jr., and Dr. Gloria P. Holmes
[2:02:58] more than deserve this recognition.
[2:03:00] We are truly grateful for this moment.
[2:03:02] We admire and respect them both.
[2:03:04] Live Communications Inc. proudly offers its full support.
[2:03:07] Thank you, Mayor and City Commissioners
[2:03:09] for this opportunity.
[2:03:10] Thank you.
[2:03:11] Our next speaker, please.
[2:03:13] James Matthews is next, followed by Sabrina Allen.
[2:03:16] Your name and address for the record, please.
[2:03:18] I'm James Matthews, 988, very old circle.
[2:03:22] I'll ask you 3, 2, 3, 1, 2.
[2:03:26] Good afternoon, Mr. Mayor and members of the commission.
[2:03:29] It is my distinct privilege and honor to read this statement on behalf of Reverend Dr.
[2:03:35] Arby Holmes, Jr. and Dr. Gloria P. Holmes, as they express their humble gratitude for this extraordinary recognition.
[2:03:44] On behalf of our family and ourselves, we give our deepest and most sincere appreciation
[2:03:50] for this incredible honor having a street named and honor is something we never imagine
[2:03:57] and we do not take it lightly.
[2:03:59] We receive this recognition with gratitude and humility.
[2:04:04] A street is more than a name on a sign.
[2:04:07] It provides a pathway that connects people.
[2:04:10] It is our prayer that our lives and service have helped create a pathway for others.
[2:04:17] With encouragement to a young person, a strengthen family, a lifted community, an open
[2:04:24] door, our help for someone to believe tomorrow could be better than today.
[2:04:30] We thank God for the privilege of serving.
[2:04:33] God's gifts were never intended for us alone, but so that we might use them to bless and serve others.
[2:04:43] While our names may appear on this street, this honor does not belong to us alone.
[2:04:48] It belongs to our family, our beloved Bethel, missionary about this church family,
[2:04:54] our friends and colleagues and this wonderful community that has loved, supported,
[2:05:00] it, pray for us, and travel alongside us doing this journey.
[2:05:06] We are extremely grateful to everyone who have made this recognition possible.
[2:05:12] Thank you for believing that our years of service were worth such an amazing tribute.
[2:05:19] Our prayers is that when people travel this street, they will see more than our names.
[2:05:26] We hope it inspires others to make a difference.
[2:05:30] Scripture reminds us, on to whomever much is given, of him shall be much required.
[2:05:38] We have been blessed beyond measure.
[2:05:41] We desire to continue serving, giving, building, and helping others as long as God gives us strength.
[2:05:49] Thank you, City Commissioners, for your consideration and above all, the God be the glory.
[2:05:55] for the great things he has done.
[2:05:58] God bless Reverend Dr. R. B. Holmes Jr. and Dr. Gloria Price Holmes.
[2:06:05] Thank you, Commissioner.
[2:06:06] Thank you.
[2:06:07] For next speaker please.
[2:06:09] Sabrina Allen is our next speaker and then, uh, what a hero.
[2:06:17] Your name and address for the record please.
[2:06:19] My name is Ms. Sabrina M. Allen.
[2:06:23] Do you see the M on that paper that I signed?
[2:06:27] You see it he did not I always use my middle initial. I am Sabrina M. Allen
[2:06:35] Q. Mardrive, Tallahassee, Florida. I was born and raised in the French town area
[2:06:44] when that entire side of town was black owned and operated.
[2:06:52] Let us not lose our roots.
[2:06:56] Let the
[2:06:57] record show that I oppose renaming any more streets in French town, that area.
[2:07:08] The French town community is too important to the history of Leon County for you all to
[2:07:18] a tamper with, renaming its streets.
[2:07:26] Let us not lose our roots.
[2:07:31] Thank you.
[2:07:31] Our next speaker, please.
[2:07:33] Next speaker is Claudette Herald, and then Terence Henson.
[2:07:44] Your name and address for the record, please.
[2:07:47] Dr. Claudette Herald, 1017, Eping Forest Drive.
[2:07:51] Good afternoon.
[2:07:53] Given honor to God, Mayor Daley, Mayor Proton, members of the City Commission,
[2:08:00] City officials, the absence of pastor homes and sister homes, the extinguished guests and members of our community.
[2:08:11] I stand before you today with tremendous pride to support the renaming of a portion of West Virginia Street in honor of the Reverend Dr.
[2:08:23] to Arby Holmes, Jr., and Dr. Gloria Price Holmes.
[2:08:27] For approximately 40 years, Dr. and Mrs. Holmes
[2:08:32] have devoted themselves to Bethel Missionary Baptist Church
[2:08:37] and this community, not simply through words,
[2:08:40] but through service, sacrifice, compassion, and action.
[2:08:46] One of the clearest examples of that commitment
[2:08:49] came doing one of the most frightening periods. Our community has faced the COVID-19 pandemic.
[2:08:59] While churches and communities have faced the COVID-19 pandemic, while churches and communities
[2:09:06] were determining how best to respond, Dr. Holmes recognized that many of our most vulnerable
[2:09:14] citizen needed health care, brought directly to them.
[2:09:19] He helped lead the effort to purchase Bethel's mobile medical unit,
[2:09:24] which was launched into undiserved communities doing the pandemic.
[2:09:31] The unit went where the people were.
[2:09:34] Through partnerships with physicians, nurses, universities,
[2:09:40] health care organizations and community volunteers.
[2:09:45] Bethel brought screenings, vaccinations, health education,
[2:09:51] referrals, and other essential service directly to individuals
[2:09:56] and families who too often face barriers to health care.
[2:10:04] Recognizing the growing mental and emotional needs of our community,
[2:10:09] Bethel helped establish a mental health clinic, and strengthen its partnerships with Appalachia Center, mental health professionals, and other community partners.
[2:10:24] This commitment created another doorway through which individuals and families could seek help, hope, and healing without shame and
[2:10:38] without judged men.
[2:10:40] You're at about 15 seconds.
[2:10:41] Through these 40 years of ministry,
[2:10:44] Dr. Gloria Holmes has faithfully stood beside him,
[2:10:48] serving, encouraging, educating,
[2:10:51] merging, and helping build a legacy centered on faith,
[2:10:56] family, children, and community.
[2:10:59] You're three minutes.
[2:10:59] That is why we are not simply honoring two people
[2:11:04] because they have service for 40 years.
[2:11:07] We are on your time, though.
[2:11:10] I'm afraid you're on your time, though.
[2:11:11] Thank you.
[2:11:12] Thank you.
[2:11:13] Commissionals, I ask that you consider renaming the street.
[2:11:16] Thank you.
[2:11:16] Thank you.
[2:11:17] The next speaker, please.
[2:11:18] Next is Terence Henson.
[2:11:20] Terence Henson will be followed by Maesha Mitchell.
[2:11:30] Your name and address for the record, please.
[2:11:32] Terence Henson, one old seven young street.
[2:11:37] I could have taken a couple of my minutes, so not going to be that long.
[2:11:40] I just want to thank you all commissioners for your past, continued partnership with Bethel Baptist Church,
[2:11:49] particularly in creating ways to reduce the affordable housing gap here in Tallahassee.
[2:11:56] Most of you are aware that Bethel's efforts to build 44 town homes and 10 single family homes on the Tharp Street site.
[2:12:09] City has made a huge financial commitment to this project.
[2:12:15] For Bethel's part, they have committed to designate it at a minimum 10% of this project for affordable housing.
[2:12:24] Not rentals, but homeownership, that's an important distinction.
[2:12:30] We're in a good place where we are now, we're coming close to securing the site.
[2:12:37] the permits from the city, so this project can move forward.
[2:12:44] A heavier lift is coming and as we shift from our planning portion of this to the construction.
[2:12:53] Bethel's going to seek to re-engage with you as commissioners, so we can discuss ways to get the infrastructure completed on this project.
[2:13:01] If we're successful, excuse me, if we're successful in the completion of this endeavor, as I expect, we will be an even larger project is on the boards.
[2:13:13] Yes.
[2:13:14] Pause the time for a second.
[2:13:15] You know we're talking about the street renaming.
[2:13:17] I am.
[2:13:18] Yeah, but I want to share just some of the thoughts.
[2:13:21] Okay.
[2:13:21] Okay.
[2:13:22] I just want to make sure we don't track.
[2:13:23] Yes, sir.
[2:13:24] Okay.
[2:13:24] I apologize for if it sounds like a moth track, but this is about Dr. Holmes, this is about his legacy, this is about affordable housing, this is about the church's energy to get the affordable housing projects completed.
[2:13:39] So if we're able to complete this starp street project, we are going to seek to build even more homes and they all are affordable homes.
[2:13:50] up to 90 to 100 homes are planned as well, so again, thank you for your support in the past.
[2:14:00] We will seek your support in the future for Bethel's Missionary Baptist Home Affordable Projects.
[2:14:10] Thank you.
[2:14:11] Thank you.
[2:14:12] Our next speaker, please.
[2:14:14] Next speaker is Maesha Mitchell, you'll be followed by Darrell Alfred.
[2:14:18] your
[2:14:25] name and address for the record police.
[2:14:26] Yeah, good afternoon.
[2:14:27] My name is Mitchell, 1-0-0-9.
[2:14:29] Elrington Court, that was your Florida.
[2:14:32] And a long-term native resident of Frisch Town community.
[2:14:39] I am not here today to argue the point
[2:14:42] about whether this should be named for Dr. Holmes or anyone else.
[2:14:49] What I say today is that it should not
[2:14:52] be named for anyone. You should remain as it is. Why would I say that? Because this
[2:15:00] Street has more history than any of us living in this room. It has been designated historically
[2:15:09] since the 1900s. Many of you have heard of the Green Book. The Green Book was designed
[2:15:16] as a motorist guide to African-American people traveling throughout the South. And why was
[2:15:24] a design that way because there was about 20 places where we could go to rest, to get
[2:15:29] food, to have entertainment, even to have programs and services and extinguish people coming
[2:15:37] into our community or guess what?
[2:15:39] It was a ginger street that was named in that historic book.
[2:15:43] So when we start talking about naming, why should we?
[2:15:48] Why should we change the name for an individual, no matter how much esteem we have for that person?
[2:15:55] When we should keep it as it is. Now, I realize that Commissioner Cox has,
[2:16:00] Williams Cox has been very active in renaming our streets and our community.
[2:16:06] Some of us don't even know where we are now.
[2:16:09] I'm telling you, is this orienting? When you're trying to find your place, some people came to the game,
[2:16:13] and could not even find where their families lived,
[2:16:15] because the names have changed so much.
[2:16:18] We've had three name changes in French town
[2:16:20] over the past three months.
[2:16:22] To the reverence, ERO,
[2:16:25] it was formerly known as Central Street,
[2:16:28] Reverend Shepherd,
[2:16:29] formerly known as Duet Street,
[2:16:32] Reverend Jackson, Jesse Jackson,
[2:16:36] formerly known as Carolina Street,
[2:16:38] which now, the work that Reverend Holmes did
[2:16:41] for Carolina Oaks,
[2:16:42] doesn't exist. The history will be written away because of that change of that name.
[2:16:49] And the other aspect now is we do another naming. It's going to wipe out the
[2:16:54] industry's history. And all the things that were on the street you can't even imagine.
[2:16:59] You're at 30 seconds remaining. Okay, but I say no to the changing. It's nothing personal.
[2:17:04] It's about this is home and it's historic. Thank you. Thank you.
[2:17:09] Our next speaker, please.
[2:17:11] Next speaker is Darrell Alfred, and then Kim McConaugher.
[2:17:18] Your name and address for the record, please.
[2:17:21] Hey guys, my name is Darrell Alfred.
[2:17:24] I live at 814 West Tharp Street, and I stand here today in opposition.
[2:17:31] I stand before you today in solidarity with the residents in opposition to the renaming of these streets.
[2:17:37] Virginia Street isn't just another street name, it's part of Tallahassee's history.
[2:17:41] During segregation, the Negro Motorists' Green Book helped black travelers find places
[2:17:45] where they could safely eat, sleep, and travel without being turned away or putting themselves
[2:17:50] in danger.
[2:17:51] The Tux Hotel on Virginia Street was part of that history.
[2:17:55] It gave black travelers a safe place to stay when something as basic as lodging wasn't guaranteed
[2:18:00] to a elsewhere.
[2:18:02] For that reason, it became a point of access with historical recognition in our city for
[2:18:05] black residents and visitors alike.
[2:18:07] That matters.
[2:18:08] And I think there's a connection between access then and access now.
[2:18:12] Back then, the issue was access to a hotel.
[2:18:15] Today, it's access to the decisions that shape community.
[2:18:18] People who live in French town grew up in French town and carry its history should know about a change like this before it's already headed toward a vote.
[2:18:26] They should have a meaningful opportunity to say whether they want it.
[2:18:29] This doesn't have to be an argument against honoring Reverend Arby and Gloria Holmes.
[2:18:36] We should honor them.
[2:18:37] I think we can all appreciate the many contributions
[2:18:40] that Reverend and First Lady have brought to our community.
[2:18:42] It just seems we can honor people without erasing
[2:18:45] or replacing another piece of black history to do it.
[2:18:48] Prince Chown has already experienced enormous changes
[2:18:50] in erasure in the past 20 years,
[2:18:52] and too often the people most connected to the neighborhood
[2:18:54] are brought into the conversation after decisions
[2:18:56] are already moving.
[2:18:58] That shouldn't happen here.
[2:19:00] If we're considering changing the name of historic street,
[2:19:03] the community should be involved from the beginning,
[2:19:04] As with any decision, not informed at the end of a short runway for change.
[2:19:10] Preservation and recognition don't have to compete, but on something this connected to French town's history, community consent should come first.
[2:19:18] Thanks.
[2:19:19] And next speaker please.
[2:19:21] Next speaker is Kim O'Connor, and mayor this is the last speaker I have on the item.
[2:19:26] Okay,
[2:19:39] your name and address for the record please.
[2:19:51] I can't sign up for public comments with the end address to nothing, but I just, you all know, I love Reverend Holmes, and I just had to speak, but then when I heard, before those ladies talked, when I heard
[2:20:10] part of Virginia Street. I just said, why not all of Duvall's street? You know, he came here from Duvall and that's a big long street. That's not Virginia Street.
[2:20:21] But I just, any street, any recognition for Reverend Holmes. And he remembers me.
[2:20:26] I visited the church and then Michael Bacon was talking and he remembers me from 1983 when
[2:20:35] I was a death penalty actor and he came with Jesse Jackson and they went to Gov.
[2:20:41] When Jackson was 84 when he was a runner from president, the campaign, but they brought a letter
[2:20:49] from Greta Scott King to the governor asking him to spare the life of a convicted civil rights
[2:20:59] or murder over civil rights activists, so just I couldn't miss this opportunity to just say
[2:21:05] how much we're going to have to do all I can do.
[2:21:16] Mayor, I have been given one additional speaker.
[2:21:18] Okay, our next speaker, please.
[2:21:19] Zachary Bell.
[2:21:20] Well, my
[2:21:29] name is Zachary Bell.
[2:21:30] I believe my address is exempt, because I'm a first responder.
[2:21:34] But one consideration I had, I'm not really pro or against this particular topic,
[2:21:39] but is this going to affect late October?
[2:21:42] Is this going to potentially affect anyone's voter registration right before November?
[2:21:47] That could be a problem for a number of residents, especially with their growing scrutiny on mail ballots.
[2:21:53] Thank you.
[2:21:54] Next speaker, please.
[2:21:56] Mayor, that's the last speaker I have.
[2:21:57] All right. Is there a motion to begin discussion, Commissioner Williams-Cox?
[2:22:02] Yes, sir. Mr. Mayor, I move very proudly that we move forward with the renaming of the portion of Virginia Street Describes for Reverend, but for Dr. Arby Holmes, Jr. and his wife, Gloria Price-Holms.
[2:22:19] I was thinking that with Commissioner Mayor Pro Tem, or comment, Commissioner Porter.
[2:22:25] Thank you, Mr. Mayor.
[2:22:27] We all may have received the email from Delay Tree Hollinger, who made, I think, a great
[2:22:34] suggestion, which was that we rename instead a portion of North Bruno Street, I think because
[2:22:41] of the concerns, and not just because of concerns from residents, but because of the historic significance.
[2:22:49] I just wonder if we would consider moving forward with a change to Vernau Street instead.
[2:22:58] And I want to just say very quick, I want to thank, I mean, I won't repeat what's been said.
[2:23:03] This is nothing to do with doctors or being Gloria Holmes.
[2:23:09] But I really think it would be a shame to rename West Virginia Street, given that special history.
[2:23:26] We're not trying to erase history, history is history and it is well documented.
[2:23:32] But I think what we're doing is we're trying to honor some folks who've done tremendous
[2:23:37] work in that commuting in that area that brought great value and even more history honor to
[2:23:44] that area. So not trying to, you know, eliminate history. I'm a, you know, big supporter of history, in love history, but this is the center here is the portion of Virginia Street is the southern portion around the Family Life Center on the north end of the Family Life Center.
[2:24:14] and a built by Bethel under the leadership of Reverend Holmes and his wife on the north end is Reverend Jesse Jackson Street and to the west end of it is Martin Luther King before it goes on to the other.
[2:24:29] So it's the synergy of folks who have made tremendous impact in our community in the world.
[2:24:37] And I think that the children who will continue to grow and grow through the family that I've sent.
[2:24:43] and others that are taking place there will know that history as well.
[2:24:48] But there's nothing to prevent us from teaching them the history of French town and
[2:24:53] other communities around our city.
[2:24:57] So, to that point, I did get Deletri's email as well.
[2:25:03] But that is not something that I would support.
[2:25:09] Mayor Prattip.
[2:25:10] Thank you.
[2:25:11] I wasn't done, Mr. Mayor.
[2:25:14] She wasn't speaking on point, she was reckoned as a speak, you have had a chance.
[2:25:18] I asked a question, she answered, I still have a question.
[2:25:21] I apologize, you are correct, it is your time, I'm sorry.
[2:25:24] Thank you, Mr. Mayor.
[2:25:27] And I understand, I just think that especially given that Bruno Street is named after
[2:25:35] a close confidant of Andrew Jackson, the first president of the territorial legislation,
[2:25:40] There's a pretty shameful racist history there, so I think it would be just that much more befitting to re-name that tree.
[2:25:46] I understand, I take your point, but, regretfully, I just don't think that I can support it today given what I have learned.
[2:25:57] And also just as a bigger message, I don't want to be put in this position again.
[2:26:02] This has happened in the past where direction was given to re-name Warnish Way.
[2:26:07] This, if there is historical significance, that should be a part of this item that comes back to us so that we are not in this position.
[2:26:16] I later found out that that street was incredibly significant to members of our Jewish community because Mayor Warnish was the first Jewish mayor of Tallahassee.
[2:26:27] So I didn't want to make these comments during this discussion, but since I don't want to take away from the significance of this,
[2:26:35] of this honor. But I do not want to be in this position again. If there is historical significance that the commission needs to know about when making a decision like this, including West Virginia Street, it should be part of our agenda materials, not only for the commission, but for the public so that we're not in this position again. Thank you.
[2:26:57] Thank you, Mr. Mayor.
[2:27:01] I fully support the motion on the dias before the dias at this point.
[2:27:10] I fully support it, apparently based on the comments that were presented to us by Mr.
[2:27:19] Matthews on behalf of Drs.
[2:27:22] R.B. and Gloria Holmes. They have agreed to this and feel comfortable with it. And I think
[2:27:30] we should move forward with it to put forth a recommendation at the last minute like this
[2:27:38] that came from one person. I don't think it's appropriate. When you've got almost half
[2:27:44] of room here at the City Commission chambers in support of what's being proposed here today,
[2:27:51] I feel like we should move forward with it.
[2:27:54] I understand your concerns, Commissioner Porter, but to come with this at the last minute,
[2:28:01] when Commissioner Williams-Cox has made the motion, there is tremendous support for it.
[2:28:08] I think we need to move forward with what's been brought before us here today.
[2:28:14] Mr. Porter.
[2:28:15] Thank you, Mr. Mayor, and I just want to say I fully intended to come here supporting this item.
[2:28:20] I was not aware of the historical significance of that street.
[2:28:24] So it was last minute information to me as well.
[2:28:28] So I want to make that clear, it was, it was never my intent to vote against this.
[2:28:34] And respectfully Commissioner Richardson, I mean, we just heard, we just heard not a single person speak in favor of a super majority for the city manager's contract.
[2:28:44] So I think it's important, and I'm sure, and I cannot speak for the members here in the audience who are here to support this item, but I would guess that their interest is that these outstanding community leaders are recognized and honored and not that it be necessarily in one street.
[2:29:08] I understand the historical significance of that area to the ministry as well, but, you know, that's just where I'm at, and I apologize, thank you.
[2:29:18] All right. There is a motion on the table to accept option number one made by Commissioner Williams-Cox, seconded by the Mayor and Mayor Pro Tem.
[2:29:28] Commissioner Matlow, you are recognized.
[2:29:30] Thank you, Mr. Mayor.
[2:29:32] I don't have strong feelings about which road gets renamed.
[2:29:36] I do have strong feelings that we rename a road in honor of Dr.
[2:29:41] Galleria and RB Holmes.
[2:29:43] To me, I think Bruno does need to be renamed.
[2:29:46] I think Call Street needs to be renamed.
[2:29:47] I think there's a lot of roads in our community that have shameful history that we should be looking at.
[2:29:53] And I understand what's being presented today is the will of the majority.
[2:29:56] And I'm happy to support that because I do think we do need to.
[2:30:00] To make sure we continue to honor the people who have invested their lives in improving the city of Tallahasseh. Thank you, Mr. Mayor. All those in favor of the motion on the table? Signify by saying aye. Aye. All those opposed? No. It passes for one with Commissioner Porter in dissent. We look forward to celebrating with you very soon.
[2:30:25] Colleagues, we have a long meeting ahead of us. We're going to go ahead and recess. We will come back at six o'clock for the public hearing.
[2:30:30] I'm
[2:30:43] out of the lab called this public hearing to order.
[2:30:45] It is 6.03 in the evening.
[2:30:47] There are four of us in chambers and no Commissioner Williams-Cox is in route as we speak.
[2:30:54] Folks, we will take up 16.01 of the public hearing, 16.02, 16.03, 16.04.
[2:31:03] Once we are done with the public hearing, we will resort back to 12.03, 12.01.
[2:31:10] One, then we will take on agenda speakers, then we will have the sharing of ideas.
[2:31:15] Just so that everybody is clear on the schedule for this evening.
[2:31:18] Right now we are on 16.01, the first of two public hearings on the fiscal year 27 budget plan.
[2:31:24] Mr. Manager, I will turn it over to you for the budget presentation.
[2:31:28] Thank you, Mr. Mayor.
[2:31:29] I'd like to recognize Robert Wigan.
[2:31:32] He is our director of resource management.
[2:31:35] He's here to provide a presentation and overview of this year's budget.
[2:31:39] that he's joined by his staff.
[2:31:41] They've done a good job putting this together.
[2:31:43] I'm very pleased with the budget as a challenging year.
[2:31:46] We've talked about that.
[2:31:47] You've given us good direction over the course of the year.
[2:31:50] And this starts to bring in the final steps,
[2:31:54] as you mentioned, the first of two public hearings
[2:31:57] that'll occur tonight.
[2:31:58] So with that, Mr. Mayor, I'll ask Robert
[2:32:00] to begin with his presentation.
[2:32:01] Robert, before we begin, for eight years now,
[2:32:05] I've had the opportunity to work with you
[2:32:07] in the budget office on our budget cycles.
[2:32:11] Every year, I am absolutely amazed and impressed by the level of professionalism and quite honestly expertise of you and your team.
[2:32:20] This will be our last budget that we have the opportunity to work with on a personal level.
[2:32:24] I want you to know how much I appreciate the hard work that you and your team does.
[2:32:29] You all are a nationally award-winning and recognized budget office.
[2:32:33] This you do incredible work during some very difficult times, and I just want you to know how much I appreciate.
[2:32:40] Go ahead with the presentation, and we'll go from there.
[2:32:44] Thank you very much, Mayor.
[2:32:46] Thank you for the introduction, Mayor, City Manager Goad.
[2:32:50] Commissioner is appointed officials and members of the public who are here.
[2:32:54] We are here to talk about the City of Tallahassee fiscal year 27 budget adoption.
[2:32:59] This is our first public hearing, we'll have a second public hearing on September 23rd to go through the final steps of adopting that fiscal year 27 budget.
[2:33:09] We've gotten here through your strategic planning workshop, through three workshops of our own, as well as these two public hearings.
[2:33:19] We have some very specific goals tonight that we're conducting the first of the two public hearings.
[2:33:24] The operating budget is $983 million, that's across 14 major funds, the general fund we pay the most attention to because it's the most constrained with property taxes only making 94% of what our police budget requires.
[2:33:43] The other 13 funds are independent and stand alone among themselves.
[2:33:48] This budget we're bringing to is balanced.
[2:33:51] Some of the steps that will go through as goals will adopt the current
[2:33:55] military of 4.4072.
[2:33:59] That will ensure us a surplus of $2.5 million ahead of the November
[2:34:03] property tax amendment vote, and I'll get into more little more details of that in the presentation.
[2:34:09] We'll ask you to approve new health care rates for
[2:34:12] calendar year of 2007, we're very comfortable where this position's employees within the city.
[2:34:18] As your remember, your direction was to mitigate the cost impacts over time.
[2:34:24] And we've maintained that 20% paid by employees, 80% paid by the city.
[2:34:31] And there was just a minimal change in what the healthcare rates were from what we assumed.
[2:34:36] And so no need to adjust for the budget.
[2:34:39] We will ask you to adopt rate resolutions for solid waste and parking rates.
[2:34:44] And that's based on the financing of the government policy where we want to ensure that those who are receiving the services are paying for those services rather than laying it on the feet of the residential and commercial property owners.
[2:34:57] And then, as you all know, we introduced the water and waste water ordinance for rates, fees and charges, commission or matlow.
[2:35:04] So, we will bring those documents back that you asked for in the September 23rd hearing and appreciate that comment and thank you Commissioner Richardson for similar comments.
[2:35:20] As you well know, the fiscal year 27 budget highlights are strategic investments in high level services.
[2:35:27] We fund city services, staff and resources in accordance with the strategic plan priorities.
[2:35:33] Public safety is a significant priority, and this budget includes additional police officers.
[2:35:40] And it continues your public safety wraparound services that support those officers.
[2:35:45] We also are recognizing and celebrating this budget because it'll be the first time in 10 years that we're entering a fiscal year with a fully funded,
[2:35:56] deficiencies fund. We, as you well know, we went through the housing crisis, we went
[2:36:02] through the pandemic, we've been through many storms. This has been built up over time
[2:36:08] as we've recovered from those storms and gotten reimbursed by FEMA. This has been restored
[2:36:14] as we've gone through certain land sales that are by policy go back to that deficiencies fund.
[2:36:21] And so, it's very, you know, that direction that you've given us in multiple different agenda
[2:36:27] items where we've brought back that plan of how to restore the deficiencies fund was intentional.
[2:36:33] And, you know, very fiscally sound, and we appreciate that direction, and we'll also want to
[2:36:41] recognize that we're entering this fiscal year in that capacity.
[2:36:45] I'll mention also that one of the reasons that we're recommending to maintain the
[2:36:51] Millage at 4.072 is that then gives us a head start on fiscal year 28 because of the
[2:36:58] cost savings that we're realizing from VSI, because of the efficiencies and
[2:37:03] effectiveness that you've demanded of us on a regular basis that are sharpening
[2:37:07] of the pencil, we're able to identify a surplus in fiscal year 27.
[2:37:13] Because of the expenditures being reduced, that additional increment of $2.8 million
[2:37:19] $30 between the rollback rate on a supermajority vote versus a supermajority vote of the 4.4072 military
[2:37:29] and enables us to get a head start ahead of the, you know, what we may see in the homestead exemption vote in November.
[2:37:40] As part of that recognition of what we do to be financially sound and responsible,
[2:37:45] Fitch writing says reaffirmed our city's AA credit rating and stable outlook.
[2:37:52] They also cited the highest possible assessment for financial resilience.
[2:37:56] That takes the team of the 14 funds working together, but the Treasury clerk's office with your direction.
[2:38:03] And part of that has to be the deficiencies fund being in a good state.
[2:38:08] As you have directed in the strategic plan, we continue investing in electric vehicle infrastructure.
[2:38:15] fast-charging technology and also across the organization energy efficient operations.
[2:38:26] Based on financial, based on the financing of the government policy,
[2:38:31] commission policy 224, we also strive to fully recover the costs from programs and services,
[2:38:38] from those who benefit from the services. A lot of our utilities are volume-based,
[2:38:43] There are frequency-based, there are means to conserve and reduce your utility bills.
[2:38:53] But there are specific rates and fees and charges that are only for certain entities within the community.
[2:39:01] And so we want to make sure that those specialized services are not subsidized by either residential or small commercial customers.
[2:39:09] So what we're bringing forward in this fiscal year 27 budget to balance it is solid waste rates that are set to fully recover the cost of services.
[2:39:19] Primarily, those costs of service increases are higher disposal fees charged by Leon County.
[2:39:26] They're addressing that increase cost in their agenda item, their upcoming budget agenda item, and
[2:39:32] acknowledge that that's the shared cost between the two entities.
[2:39:35] We're also making recommendations to adjust fees to align with the rising costs of providing parking services.
[2:39:42] It's a very valuable commodity, and we want to make sure that we're representing the market well.
[2:39:47] And that applies to city-operated grudges, including claim and plaza and the east side grudge.
[2:39:52] And then lastly, based on the independent rate study from our consultant, Lighthouse Engineering,
[2:39:58] we looked at fiscal year 26 as the baseline evaluated fiscal year 27, 28, and 29.
[2:40:04] The cost of operations, the cost of maintaining our system, and then any improvements in that infrastructure.
[2:40:11] As such, we're bringing forward nominal increases in the water fund, about 25 cents per month, in the waste water fund about $2.58, and as you'll well remember, we're ahead of the game with our advanced wastewater treatment because we know how much of a valuable commodity our water system is and the aquifer that we use.
[2:40:34] To give you assurance on a regular basis, we look at our municipal cost across this basket of goods.
[2:40:42] We compare ourselves then to similar communities.
[2:40:45] And we see that we would remain within the third lowest among those 12 peer cities,
[2:40:51] even with implementing these rate changes.
[2:40:54] And so we're comfortable bringing those forward.
[2:40:59] With that, I'll bring forward that with that as background.
[2:41:04] I'll bring forward that we'll ask you to take the actions that are listed under the public hearing steps to approve the tentative millage rate of 4.4072, the tentative DIA millage rate of 1 mil and then both of those by super majority will ask you to adopt the fiscal year to fiscal year 27 proposed operating capital budgets as presented approved the calendar year 27 health plan rates and then adopt the resolutions for solid waste and parking rate.
[2:41:34] And again, just to repeat, the final public hearing to consider these items is in September 23rd at 6 p.m.
[2:41:45] Unless there's initial questions, as we proceed, there's a statutorily direct order to ensure the budget is adopted and
[2:41:52] read into the record as the legislature has directed.
[2:41:56] The process is conducted by the city attorney, and we can proceed to open the public hearing at your agreement.
[2:42:03] That sounds great. Before we get into the formalities, are there any questions of simply
[2:42:09] clarification or problem about a maternity?
[2:42:14] Thank you, Mr. Mayor.
[2:42:17] Florida Statute Section 200.065 requires two public hearings to adopt the Millage
[2:42:23] and Budget. These hearings scheduled for today, September 9 and September 23, 2026,
[2:42:29] do not conflict with the county or school board public hearing dates.
[2:42:32] Specific actions required at this first public hearing in the required order of execution are delineated as follows.
[2:42:39] The proposed millage rate for fiscal year 27 is 4.4072 for the city of Tallahassee and 1.0000 for the downtown improvement authority.
[2:42:52] Which is more than the aggregate rolled back rate of 4.2782 by 3.47%.
[2:43:00] Resolution number 26-R-31, which is provided to state the percentage and the tentative
[2:43:08] military is above the rolled-back rate is in attachment A. The title to the
[2:43:13] resolution, setting forth the City Commission's approvals, are as follows.
[2:43:18] Resolution number 26-R-31, a resolution establishing the
[2:43:23] for the fiscal year, beginning October 1, 2026, and ending September 30, 2027.
[2:43:30] As 4.4072 mills for the City of Tallahassee, and 1.0000 mill for the downtown improvement authority.
[2:43:39] Providing that the resulting aggregate millage rate of 4.4267 mills exceeds the aggregate rolled back rate of 4.2782
[2:43:50] two mills by 3.47% and providing an effective date.
[2:43:56] This city commission will also consider resolution number 26R-32,
[2:44:01] a resolution adopting the operating and capital budgets for the city of Tallahassee,
[2:44:06] and the operating budget for the downtown improvement authority for the fiscal year,
[2:44:09] beginning October 1, 2026, and ending September 30, 2027.
[2:44:15] Designating the sources of revenue and set appropriations and
[2:44:19] providing an effective date.
[2:44:22] The next steps are to allow public input on the city's
[2:44:25] proposed millage and the city's proposed budget. If anyone has signed up to give public
[2:44:30] comment, they can speak on either the proposed millage or the proposed budget for the
[2:44:34] city at this time. In compliance with Florida Statute Section 200.065, the date of this
[2:44:41] hearing was included in the trim notice, which was mailed to all property owners in August
[2:44:45] by the Leon County property appraiser to advertise this hearing.
[2:44:50] Mr. Clerk, do we have any public input on the city's proposed
[2:44:53] millage of 4.4072 in proposed budget?
[2:44:57] Mayor, we have two speakers on 1601.
[2:45:00] I think we should go ahead and call them now. They may comment on the budget as well as the millage, but those two are Douglas Hahn and Brandon McIntyre. Excellent. Your name and address for the record? You have three minutes.
[2:45:14] My name is Douglas Hahn. I live at 1772 Florida Avenue here in Calla Hasse. I've been in this here for nine years. I've even commissioned a member's unviolence in Calla Hasse in the end county. I'm only has a human cost, but it has an economic cost.
[2:45:30] Fund violence in the first nine months of this year is pending downwards, notably with
[2:45:35] only one death since early June, although gun injuries and shootings are at a more modest
[2:45:40] decline.
[2:45:41] A good trend, but remember, we were looking at small numbers.
[2:45:45] We do seem to be in line with pre-pandemic numbers,
[2:45:50] based on algorithms for Florida from
[2:45:52] the Pacific Institute for Research and Evaluation.
[2:45:55] done violence to date this year has cost our community, families, businesses, and governments nearly $190 million.
[2:46:07] Of that, almost $9.5 million from taxpayers, this includes six and a half millions for the criminal justice system and $2 million for police.
[2:46:19] What does this cost not include? 7 of 10 deaths by gun violence and by suicide as it's not included in these figures.
[2:46:31] Shootings without death are injuries. Like the shooting at the mall this weekend involved the police and the courts. Those costs are not included in these figures.
[2:46:40] A 15-year-old is to be tried as an adult, and this could easily have been another mass
[2:46:47] shooting in Tallahassee, who was young persons with no impulse control in a crowded mall.
[2:46:57] The cost of protecting you commissioners with metal detectors and guard downstairs protects
[2:47:04] you, but it's not in the car.
[2:47:06] When you go home tonight, you may stop at publics, pick up a gallon of milk and will not
[2:47:13] be protected.
[2:47:15] When your children return a book to the library, it will not be protected.
[2:47:21] When your wife or your husband goes to vote in the elections in November, it will not be
[2:47:28] protected.
[2:47:28] the community-based violence intervention and prevention funds that we've had for the last five years have been eliminated by the Trump administration in April.
[2:47:42] We had almost 150, one and a half million dollars grants from the federal government over five years.
[2:47:53] You're at 30 seconds remaining.
[2:47:54] any? Please. This was for local law enforcement. This was for the council for the status of
[2:48:00] men and boys and for the FSU study. Go to the FSU department of terminology and ask
[2:48:09] them what we can do. They have some answers. Thank you.
[2:48:14] Thank you. A nice speaker, please. Next speaker is Brandon McIntyre.
[2:48:24] Your name and address for the record, please.
[2:48:27] I feel about 511 Sneeze Florida.
[2:48:29] My name is Brandon McIntyre and I'm a civil rights advocate.
[2:48:32] Also, Canada for Governor for Florida for 2028, also a presidential candidate as well.
[2:48:37] So I'm here to talk about property taxes today, guys.
[2:48:40] Good evening, council.
[2:48:41] My name is Brandon McIntyre, a citizen and a Canada for Governor.
[2:48:44] I'm here tonight to put this on the record for the record for Ronda Sanchez.
[2:48:48] Nobody wants to talk to let's go, Brandon, I guess what I'm here today to talk to you guys.
[2:48:52] All right, the proposal to abolish property taxes is unconstitutional,
[2:48:56] except if and boards both the Florida Constitution and the United States Constitution.
[2:49:01] Article 7 and Section 9 of the Florida Constitution requires local government to lever property taxes.
[2:49:06] But funds, counties, municipalities, and schools abolishing them without the Constitutional
[2:49:11] amendment is unlawful.
[2:49:13] Under the United States Constitution, Article 1, Section 10, the contract clause,
[2:49:17] are bars and property taxes will impair the country of local government that rely on the revenue.
[2:49:23] And the 14th Amendment, the Equal Protection Clause, makes it unconstitutional to shift a burden on two working families through our redressive taxes.
[2:49:33] The Supreme Court has already ruled this as already with Marbury versus Madison, that any law repudiate to the Constitution is void.
[2:49:40] That's the citizens to vote on something that is already void is a direct violation of public trust, okay?
[2:49:48] I am submitting this notice for the record, on the record, so it can continue to be ignored.
[2:49:53] So it cannot continue to be ignored.
[2:49:55] You as a public officials are now on notice that this measure is unconstitutional.
[2:50:00] If people of Florida will not be deceived and we will not tolerate leaders who breaks the law.
[2:50:06] And to uphold it as a constitutional oath.
[2:50:09] So I'm here to submit this Constitution of Notice for the record.
[2:50:13] I came here once upon a time a while back and submitted some Constitution of Notice as well.
[2:50:19] And that also pertained about our flock cameras.
[2:50:21] Let's go, Brandon actually brought notice about the flock cameras.
[2:50:24] Try to serve our governor, run the San Tez.
[2:50:26] I have a Constitution of Notice, no one wanted to listen.
[2:50:29] Now we hear today standing in front of you.
[2:50:31] My administration will not be ignored.
[2:50:33] I'm let's go, Brandon.
[2:50:40] Our relief for our Floridians.
[2:50:43] And we deserve a relief.
[2:50:44] But property taxes is not in, who's going to fund our schools, who's going to fund the pot holes in our roles,
[2:50:51] who's going to take care of our police officers, public safety.
[2:50:55] Who's going to pay their salaries and their wages, if we get rid of property taxes?
[2:51:01] See, it's hidden in the genus in this whole motive, even with the $250,000.
[2:51:07] You're at 30 seconds remaining.
[2:51:08] I accidentally reset the clock, but you're at two and a half minutes.
[2:51:11] I love you, Broly, have a very, have a very blessed day.
[2:51:14] Thank you.
[2:51:17] The next speaker.
[2:51:18] I don't have any other speakers on this item.
[2:51:20] All right, at this time, I will close the public input on C's proposed
[2:51:23] millage and proposed budget, Madam Attorney.
[2:51:25] Thank you, Mr. Mayor.
[2:51:26] The next steps are to allow public input and commission discussion on the downtown
[2:51:29] improvement authorities proposed millage of 1.00000 mill and the downtown improvement
[2:51:35] authorities proposed budget.
[2:51:37] If anyone has signed up to give public comment, they can speak on either the DIA's
[2:51:41] proposed millage or the proposed budget for the downtown improvement authority at this
[2:51:46] time. In compliance with Florida's statute, section 200.065, the date of this hearing
[2:51:51] was also included in the trim notice, which was mailed to all property owners in August
[2:51:55] by the Leon County property appraiser to advertise this hearing.
[2:52:00] Okay. This time, Mr. Clark, do we have any public input on the downtown improvement
[2:52:04] authorities, the IA, proposed millage of 1.00.
[2:52:08] zero zero zero. No sir. Anyone here that would like to speak on the DIA's proposed
[2:52:14] millage rate of 1.0000. In none I will close the public input on the downtown improvement
[2:52:21] authorities proposed millage and proposed budget missioners. It is time for discussion on
[2:52:26] the city's proposed millage and proposed budget.
[2:52:36] Sorry. I would move staff recommendation.
[2:52:42] Okay, option number one has been properly moved by the Mayor of Pro-10, Missouri, second to the motion on the table.
[2:52:47] Second.
[2:52:48] Seconded by Commissioner Williams.
[2:52:49] Cox, Commissioner Porter, you recognize for discussion.
[2:52:52] Thank you, Mr. Mayor.
[2:52:53] I have a couple of questions.
[2:52:55] Sure.
[2:52:58] To you, Mr. McKee.
[2:52:59] Yeah, thank you.
[2:53:06] And thank you for all your work and your staff's work on this budget.
[2:53:10] So, as we've discussed at previous meetings, we know that the federal government
[2:53:15] has provided notice to the city that over a million dollars in grant funds must be reimbursed
[2:53:21] related to the HUD, the lead of payment grant. Is this something that we have budgeted for
[2:53:27] or not? How do we handle that in the budget?
[2:53:32] Because I know that we're appealing, you know, how do we manage that?
[2:53:36] Yes. When we budget, we want some certainty in what we're budgeting because we are so
[2:53:45] go constrained in what funding that we have, we don't want to be in a position of setting side
[2:53:49] monies that, that when, when we go through a process that's, that's a, that we can accomplish and
[2:53:57] be successful in, that we have that money tied up.
[2:54:00] So, that is not reflected in the budget at this time, but whenever new priorities come along,
[2:54:07] we work with the departments to make sure that we, and we can accomplish those priorities.
[2:54:11] So, we're, we'll be fine with.
[2:54:12] Okay, so it's not currently in the budget, but we are planning for it.
[2:54:18] Okay.
[2:54:19] Again, we want to understand the outcome or we take action.
[2:54:24] Okay, thank you.
[2:54:28] The city made the decision to terminate or not renew our fire services agreement with the county.
[2:54:34] And is where would I see the financial implications of that in our capital plan?
[2:54:45] So the interlocal agreement expires September 30th of 2028.
[2:54:53] As we've worked through this process, we've identified 26 new positions that we're focusing
[2:54:59] on the busiest stations in the department, those eventually then with the expiration will be focused on city facilities.
[2:55:12] As we experience the placement of those positions, then we're also evaluating what resources are needed from a station perspective,
[2:55:21] what resources are needed from a, from a vehicle perspective, you know, the focus of those positions was to increase safety in the fire department,
[2:55:32] reducing response times, and as you all know, eventually accomplish an ISO improvement.
[2:55:39] You'll also recall that when the rates were implemented in fiscal year 26, we participated, the City of Tallahassee residents
[2:55:48] participated in that rate increase.
[2:55:51] We know that as we approach fiscal year 27, that will be a balanced budget.
[2:55:56] You would see that in the five-year pro forma, where we are using the last of our reserves
[2:56:02] to balance that fiscal year 27 budget.
[2:56:04] As we enter fiscal year 28 and the adoption of that budget, we'll bring to you at the strategic planning
[2:56:11] meeting at workshops our recommendation on how to close any gap that's there, and then also
[2:56:17] also how to close out that expiration of that contract.
[2:56:20] Okay, thank you.
[2:56:26] I meant to actually ask this question.
[2:56:28] This would probably not be a question for you
[2:56:30] about the city manager contract.
[2:56:33] Does the $1,000 a month vehicle allowance,
[2:56:40] is that in addition to the city purchasing a car
[2:56:46] for the city manager? The incoming city manager? Does anyone know? No. Okay.
[2:56:51] And the reason for the question is there was some reported about the cost of vehicles provided to city officials.
[2:56:57] Where is that in the budget? Where would I find that?
[2:57:00] That's contained in each of the departments.
[2:57:02] In each of the departments budget.
[2:57:04] So when we think two days ago, when we, within two days of publishing the agenda,
[2:57:11] that we uploaded into our online budgetary system, the details of this fiscal year 27 budget.
[2:57:18] As we enter the adoption of this, we'll do that again.
[2:57:21] And then by January, I'm sorry, by December, we're obligated by State statute,
[2:57:27] but also by GFOA standards to publish the entirety of the budget.
[2:57:31] And that's the talgov.com site that you see.
[2:57:34] Okay. Okay. Thank you.
[2:57:38] That's all the questions I have for now. Thank you, Mr. Mayor.
[2:57:42] Okay. The current layer is a motion on the table for the approval of the city's millage rate of 4.4072 mills as stated in Resolution No. 26-R-31.
[2:57:52] Attachment A, recognizing that the proposed aggregate millage rate is more than the rollback rate of 4.2782 by 3.47%.
[2:58:00] The motion was made by the Vice Mayor, Curtis Richardson, Mayor Pro-Tim, Curtis Richardson,
[2:58:05] seconded by Commissioner Diane Williams-Cox, or comment, Commissioner Matlow.
[2:58:09] Thank you, Mr. Mayor.
[2:58:11] Robert, have a few questions as well.
[2:58:14] Where in the budget is the revenue received from the sale of the hospital allocated?
[2:58:21] It's represented in the general fund.
[2:58:25] So in addition to the tax increase, there's also $3 million represented in the general fund.
[2:58:30] over what we had last year.
[2:58:32] As you recall, when we began this process, we were estimating a $8 to $10 million budget.
[2:58:38] So yes, that is part of what has enabled us to be at the point where we can bring a balanced budget to you.
[2:58:46] The additional military enables us to provide a surplus.
[2:58:50] Okay.
[2:58:50] So the hospital payments are in excess of $3 million and what we're putting into the deficiency fund, I believe, is $2.5.
[2:58:57] So, we're actually spending $500,000 in excess of the military increase, just to balance the budget with the hospital payment?
[2:59:07] I don't necessarily, it's not as easy as that inflow and that outflow, there are.
[2:59:15] The increase in the military based on where we were in June was an increase of $2.8 million.
[2:59:26] So we have identified then where we could trim the budget so that we could use that S or plus for the future.
[2:59:35] Sure. So we're using the hospital revenues to shore up existing expenditures in the budget.
[2:59:41] We're using that to balance the general fund. Yes, it's part of the revenue sources that we use.
[2:59:47] Okay. Can you walk us through the buyout program?
[2:59:51] My understanding was 170 some odd employees to get, is that correct?
[2:59:56] 171 took the pro-
[2:59:57] 171 took the bio program, okay.
[2:59:59] And that was.
[3:00:00] I just meant to say of three point, or the cost of that was $3.9 million. The initial cost was savings of $14 million, as we applied it to the budget, we discussed that we, that services could not be impacted. That was your direction that we were not reduced services, or take short cuts on services. And so we've gone through the process of evaluating, or the departments have gone through the process of evaluating where those positions need to be replaced. As we entered the Jews,
[3:00:30] agenda item, I think we quoted a 8.45 million dollar number of what we expected,
[3:00:37] the real savings to be, so that we wouldn't impact services.
[3:00:41] We are continuing, the departments are continuing to undergo, and it was intended
[3:00:45] that they would undergo that evaluation, that management of how to operate with those
[3:00:50] positions that have left during all of fiscal year 27.
[3:00:53] So, we have represented a reduction in the general fund of the $4.45 million that you mentioned.
[3:01:02] And that's, that also has created the surplus that we're seeing in fiscal year 27,
[3:01:07] and part of the recommendation of why then taking that knowledge rate to balance the budget in fiscal year 28.
[3:01:14] So, what was the total cost paid out to the employees that were bought out in addition
[3:01:19] to any expenses of covering health care for them as well?
[3:01:22] Well, the total expenses were $25,000 per employee.
[3:01:28] Their salaries that they would have earned in that period of time, offset that amount.
[3:01:36] The same was true for their health care.
[3:01:38] Their health care would have been paid up through October, you know, first week of October
[3:01:44] based on how the fiscal years closed out.
[3:01:46] And so that healthcare coverage was, you know, then matched what we would have paid out to them.
[3:01:54] Okay, so you don't have a total dollar amount that the bioprogram cost us including health care?
[3:01:58] That was the $14 million, what did I mention?
[3:02:01] 14 million is what it cost the city?
[3:02:04] That's the question.
[3:02:05] No, the biopper employee, yes, the total cost of the bioplus, the cost was neutral because we would have paid those employees over the last six to 12 weeks of their employment.
[3:02:16] which matched the $25,000 payment that we gave them and the health care coverage that we covered.
[3:02:23] Okay, then let's start there.
[3:02:25] So I knew some of the buyout positions probably had to be filled immediately.
[3:02:30] We look at the entire command staff of TPD.
[3:02:33] I assume those had to be filled immediately.
[3:02:35] So we wanted to realize savings on those individual positions.
[3:02:39] So out of the total 171 positions, how many remain vacant?
[3:02:44] I don't have that number because it's a number that's still in flux, still a number that's changing.
[3:02:51] As we identified the budget, we made certain assumptions of what we would represent in the general
[3:02:57] fund as a reduction in personnel services, and that's what you see in that budget.
[3:03:03] That $4.45 million that's less in personnel services.
[3:03:08] As far as positions, we have not.
[3:03:10] There's a personnel services schedule that shows the changes over time.
[3:03:15] We haven't fixed that at an absolute point in time, and so we'll do that during fiscal year 27.
[3:03:22] And that was the intention as we proposed this program, as we wanted to work through that process during the upcoming fiscal year.
[3:03:29] So of the vacant positions, are they funded in this budget?
[3:03:33] The general fund positions are not, and so we would have to work with those.
[3:03:38] And again, let me, let me go back, the original buyout was $14 million.
[3:03:43] We assumed $8 million accounting for some being rehired, and then as we filled them,
[3:03:50] then we, we're working with departments to make sure that we can accommodate those budgetary requests.
[3:03:57] So how many of the positions have been refilled since the buyout?
[3:04:00] I'd have to turn to our H.R. Director, I'm aware of a double handful that were immediately filled.
[3:04:09] I would like to do that, please.
[3:04:11] Mr. Mayor.
[3:04:13] John, you welcome joining us.
[3:04:17] Those requests are coming through H.R.
[3:04:20] They're working with the departments and we're getting the results, but I've not reflected the position changes in the budget.
[3:04:28] Make sure at this time, as Robert said, the numbers fluctuating, but as we feel positions, we feel them at a lower rate.
[3:04:36] We also reorganize the departments that they don't feel the same amount of positions that left.
[3:04:41] So we don't have a number at this time that is a permanent number for you.
[3:04:45] We don't know the number of positions that were made vacant that haven't been filled.
[3:04:50] I don't have that number at this time.
[3:04:52] I can get you the number of how many have been vacated and how many know how many we have to look at this.
[3:04:59] Okay, can we get that information at this budget hearing?
[3:05:02] Okay.
[3:05:03] Yeah, well, we'll come with a inflow number and as a HR director said, those numbers change.
[3:05:12] A department will come to HR and say we want to refill this critical position and
[3:05:17] they'll talk through the process of is there another position that can be used to fill that at a lower rate?
[3:05:22] Right. And that's the question. How many have been refilled whether they're at a lower rate or not?
[3:05:26] Yeah, I know there's a double handful based on the first month of the request that have come from the,
[3:05:32] from the few departments that I'm aware of.
[3:05:34] Can you understand how it's difficult to understand if this buy-out makes financial sense?
[3:05:38] If we can't really understand the real life savings and positions that have been backfilled?
[3:05:42] Yeah, there, I will say this was an initial action and effort to get ahead of the,
[3:05:48] of where we may be in cutting programs and people.
[3:05:53] I'm confident that as we go through this process, and we also get the feedback
[3:05:57] in November of what really will happen, we'll work towards an absolute number.
[3:06:03] Robert, let me jump in real quick, Mr. Major.
[3:06:05] Thank you, Mr. Mayor Robert.
[3:06:08] I think it probably should be said, so you're in the process of approving a budget.
[3:06:14] it, that budget then cascades down into the variety of departments.
[3:06:19] Robert and his team, the directors, HR, the vast majority of the positions that were
[3:06:26] vacated have not been filled, and they've been zeroed out from budget purpose.
[3:06:31] They have not eliminated the FTE yet, that's what Robert's talking about, but the departments
[3:06:36] will not have the budget for those positions.
[3:06:40] If they, we're going through that process of saying which ones are absolutely necessary.
[3:06:46] We're pretty much at that point, we know that where we need to be and so if the budget
[3:06:52] is not available to the department they won't be able to hire those positions.
[3:06:57] It won't be that they just continue to hire and overspend, they can't work that way.
[3:07:01] So that's what you're really firming up, commission, you mentioned the police department.
[3:07:07] That's maybe arguably the most critical department that makes sure you have full staffing.
[3:07:13] Even with those positions that we move to immediately refill, it still resulted in a net vacancy in the department
[3:07:22] because that's one of the unique departments that hires almost exclusively from within.
[3:07:27] So a promotion results in a vacancy as it cascades and so their net vacancies that now exist in the police department.
[3:07:35] And so the positions, as Roberts describing, are somewhat fluid, but the budget is not.
[3:07:43] The budget will be absolute, and the positions that haven't been filled have been zeroed.
[3:07:48] So the budget will control and constrain what positions are available to the departments.
[3:07:55] And so that's why you're getting the answers that you're getting.
[3:07:59] We've not taken an absolute hard approach.
[3:08:02] It never was a program that said any position vacated will be deleted because we understand the expectation of the commission to maintain the levels of service.
[3:08:13] The fact is we've done that because you've not heard any reduction in service and Robert and his team and all the department directors and HR director have done a good job.
[3:08:22] But we're about to farm a budget and that budget will be absolute and will apply to every single department.
[3:08:31] And truth be told, credit goes to the department directors.
[3:08:34] It goes to these individuals that are sitting in the audience, because they're having
[3:08:39] to make sure they maximize these resources.
[3:08:41] And so that's kind of the art of the personnel management and the budget management.
[3:08:46] But the budget ultimately passed.
[3:08:47] We'll constrain how much dollars we had to spend on personnel.
[3:08:50] I hope that helps a little bit.
[3:08:52] Thank you, Mr. Mayor.
[3:08:53] Mr. Mayor.
[3:08:54] Thank you, Mr. Manager.
[3:08:55] Yeah, there's no confusion on vacancies in the budget expenditures.
[3:08:59] the question is of the money that we've already spent for this buyout program.
[3:09:04] How many of those positions had to be back filled?
[3:09:07] I recognize the budget before us also asked for a tax increase and is larger than the budget that we had previously.
[3:09:15] So I'm trying to ascertain as did it make sense to do that buyout program.
[3:09:18] And I'm not really receiving enough information to be able to determine that.
[3:09:22] If you have a list of all the vacant positions that will be unfunded in this budget, that would be helpful.
[3:09:29] As well, and I do want to ask a couple more questions while I have you, Robert.
[3:09:34] Commissioner Porter mentioned the HUD reimbursement.
[3:09:37] I know the letter we received from HUD said this money would be required to be reimbursed.
[3:09:43] So but we're not budgeting to reimburse the federal government at this time.
[3:09:47] No.
[3:09:48] Okay.
[3:09:49] And so when we get a definitive declaration to pay that, where will that money come from?
[3:09:54] We'll talk through that issue at that time.
[3:09:59] But we have a budgetary authority across multiple departments.
[3:10:07] Imagine we'll look at where we are in the budget at that time to see what's been spent,
[3:10:13] what remains, and then what funds can be dedicated to that, whatever that amount is.
[3:10:18] So you believe at that time we would be able to identify mid fiscal year,
[3:10:23] million dollars the ring for federal government?
[3:10:25] It's one of the strengths of the budget process is we come back on a quarterly basis in workshops to talk about where we are after the first quarter, the second, third quarter.
[3:10:33] Okay, thank you.
[3:10:34] It sounds like to me that there's rooms for their reduction in this budget based on the information provided today.
[3:10:41] I know a lot of people had mentioned amendment three, and this is kind of shoring up the accounts in case that that passes, but it feels like a bit of a self-fulfilling prophecy.
[3:10:53] Whether people are asking us to do is get our fiscal house in order stop increasing taxes at the rates we've seen year after year after year to where they think they're at a breaking point.
[3:11:04] And I think the way we do that is a good faith effort by local government to reduce expenditures.
[3:11:11] And to not continue to increase taxes, again, after, again, so I did not support this military when it was proposed.
[3:11:19] I do support of the rollback military of 4.2782.
[3:11:23] And so what I would propose is that we bring back a budget that continues to tighten sharpen the pencil.
[3:11:32] I mean, look at half percent across the board, one percent across the board by department to bring this align and
[3:11:38] and continue to show our deficiencies, so I'd make a substitute motion to adopt the rollback rate of 4.2782.
[3:11:47] That motion is not recognized. There's a very specific formula by Florida Statute that we have to follow,
[3:11:52] so we need to deal with the motion on the table. First, Commissioner Matlow and we will move through the process from there.
[3:11:58] Commissioner Porter.
[3:11:59] Thank you, Mr. Mayor.
[3:12:01] I understand this is a specific process. We have to follow.
[3:12:04] So my question is,
[3:12:15] and I know that it takes forward a pass.
[3:12:17] My question is whether, I guess what I'm getting at, frankly, is, I don't support this budget, but
[3:12:26] I am concerned about amendment three, and frankly, wish that we have made motions in the past asking for
[3:12:36] budget options, and those motions have never been successful.
[3:12:40] So my question is whether there is an option to do that at this point?
[3:12:47] If this motion does not pass by a supermajority, either 4-1 or a 5-0, then we will move to the
[3:12:53] rollback rate and there is a formula for that and I will entertain a motion on that particular
[3:13:00] milledrate in budget.
[3:13:02] Thank you, Mr. Mayor.
[3:13:03] My question was actually, well, I guess I would like to hear the city attorney's opinion.
[3:13:08] And is my question clear?
[3:13:11] It is not.
[3:13:12] Okay, so my question is, I'm
[3:13:19] sorry, did you have something to say, Commissioner Richardson?
[3:13:21] No, ma'am.
[3:13:22] Okay.
[3:13:24] We got the floor.
[3:13:25] So my question was, in the past, we have asked for basically budget options.
[3:13:31] Commissioner Matlow has just said, I'd like to, you know, we could see a 5% reduction across the board.
[3:13:37] My question is, if those two things can come back to us at once for
[3:13:42] consideration at the next public hearing.
[3:13:44] Is that at this point, if I'm correct, right, Madam Mayor?
[3:13:47] I mean, no, Madam Attorney.
[3:13:50] So we have to go through this process of adopting the millage and the budget, so there's separate
[3:13:59] motions, the budget is separate.
[3:14:04] I think the budget has to be adopted or not at this meeting.
[3:14:09] I think I might rather refer to Robert Thoreg or just confer with Robert to make sure that I'm correct on that.
[3:14:16] I think Commissioner Porter's question is, could they come back, could we come back at the next meeting with any amendments to the budget?
[3:14:25] Is that what you're asking?
[3:14:29] My question is, I mean, sort of, my question is, we have in the past, it's never been successful.
[3:14:35] It's always been a three to vote, asked for options to review as it relates to the budget.
[3:14:43] So my question is, at this point, is that possible at the next hearing to accommodate Commissioner
[3:14:50] Matlow's request?
[3:14:51] No, the two options, there are opportunities for us to discuss programs and services.
[3:15:01] And make changes to those programs and service levels, recognizing that there have been requests to cut executive salaries or certain departments,
[3:15:13] those departments being allocated, don't even come close to what we need in order to balance a budget.
[3:15:21] And so what we're bringing to you is a balanced budget with the best options possible for the military that are dictated by
[3:15:29] by the new State statute, and those voting motions that the City Attorney is walking through.
[3:15:36] So Commissioner, if I could just follow up, I think at this point in the process we're very bound by the statutory steps.
[3:15:45] The budgetary options to the extent I'm understanding what you're asking is probably something that has to have been done prior to today, and we did try to understand.
[3:15:58] On point, Mr. Mayor.
[3:16:00] Mr. Matlow, on point.
[3:16:02] Madam Attorney, if this budget gets rejected today, what is the next step?
[3:16:07] The budget or the millage rate?
[3:16:09] The millage and the budget get rejected today.
[3:16:11] What is the next step and what is the timeline to adopt a budget for the fiscal year?
[3:16:16] I'll jump in.
[3:16:17] If this motion fails, I will hardly plan on entertaining a motion for the rollback rate, which I think will have a majority.
[3:16:23] You've already stated you're in favor of the rollback rate.
[3:16:25] So we will go through the legal process and the mayor of the attorney will walk me through that.
[3:16:32] We have the script, we are fully prepared.
[3:16:35] So to answer Commissioner Porter's question, I understand the millage rate.
[3:16:40] Her question is, can the specifics of the budget be amended at this point?
[3:16:44] And that answer should be, yes, we have not adopted a final budget yet.
[3:16:48] What we advertised for the budget and for the millage rate has to be the exact same of what passes tonight.
[3:16:55] correct versus what comes back.
[3:16:57] What I think to answer your question is, remember, we begin our budget process in January.
[3:17:03] The next commission will have plenty of opportunity to propose budget amendments throughout the fiscal year to address the needs as they come up, whether amendment three passes or does not pass.
[3:17:12] I believe that is the appropriate time to amend the budget because we're at this point in the cycle.
[3:17:19] So, you know, I intend to take a motion and hopefully get some type of consensus whether it's on the proposed
[3:17:27] milledrate as is or on the rollback rate so that we can advertise it and have a fully balanced budget
[3:17:35] passed by September 30th at the end of the fiscal year.
[3:17:39] Commissioner Mellon.
[3:17:40] And thank you, Mr. Mayor.
[3:17:41] And that starts to clarify what I'm trying to say and answer Commissioner Porter's question.
[3:17:45] If we adopt a rollback rate, this city commission will still have to decide what that budget looks like, what gets removed, or what gets refunded.
[3:17:54] There's still an opportunity to have that conversation or put it in part of a motion today, what budget would come back at the next point.
[3:18:01] I think that those individual, whatever those changes are would have to be made tonight because we are under the deadline of advertising an amend.
[3:18:12] And we will have an amended budget if we adopt the, if you adopt the rollback.
[3:18:18] And so then we will bring back an amended budget, but it has to come back at the 23rd.
[3:18:24] It has to be advertised and then it has to come back at the 23rd.
[3:18:27] So I guess the answer is we don't have another opportunity at the 23rd is when it has to be decided.
[3:18:34] So any amendments would have to be done tonight.
[3:18:37] I understand that it makes perfect sense, and what what Commissioner Porter asked for this could have been predicted
[3:18:43] because it was always going to require four votes to pass.
[3:18:47] She asked for a workshop to take place so we could hash out those details and make sure we had a balanced
[3:18:52] budget with a rollback rate because that was rejected, city staff didn't even do the work.
[3:18:57] She proposed an alternative budget that fits the rollback rate, and that's causing the confusion today.
[3:19:02] Thank you, Mr. Mayor.
[3:19:03] Mr. Mayor, now I need Robert to clarify this, I just want to make sure we're on the right page.
[3:19:10] Paired with the adoption of the military, you will also have to pass a total budget that will be balanced.
[3:19:18] Right.
[3:19:19] So we don't have to go back to the drawing board.
[3:19:22] Robert and team will be prepared tonight to present that total budget to coincide with the military.
[3:19:28] So, the military, we won't go back and re-tool, as the rollback rate, Robert has a budget to present, and you would adopt that tonight.
[3:19:39] Currently, as a motion for approval of the city's military to 4.4072 mills, that's stated in resolution number 26-R-31.
[3:19:48] The motion was made by the Mayor Pro Tem, Curtis Richardson, seconded by Commissioner Diane Williams, Cox, Commissioner Porter.
[3:19:57] I do plan to support the proposed military because I am concerned about the implications of amendment 3 if it passes, but I do want to reiterate again that I really don't support this budget.
[3:20:10] I appreciate all the work that went into it, but I have said the same thing every year, every budget hearing, basically every budget workshop that I really think we need to re-evaluate many of our spending priorities.
[3:20:24] We talk about sharpening our pencils, but somehow that effort still includes spending nearly $100,000 on an employee's personal vehicle.
[3:20:34] That's the kind of thing that makes working people, many of whom are working multiple jobs to make a meet and
[3:20:40] to meet wonder if this government is really working to meet their needs.
[3:20:45] It pushes people to support amendments like amendment three.
[3:20:51] You know, and I could go on, but that's just the start.
[3:20:55] I think there's a lot of good in this budget, but we continue to miss the mark.
[3:20:59] Just as an example, we gave unanimous direction years ago about implementing a municipal child
[3:21:05] care system years ago.
[3:21:07] Where is that in this budget?
[3:21:08] That never even came back to us.
[3:21:11] Nearly one in four residents is living in poverty in Tallahassee, and we all know this.
[3:21:16] We've never even had a serious discussion about how to address that.
[3:21:20] We have the impact on poverty category in our strategic plan.
[3:21:25] Our stated goal isn't even to reduce poverty.
[3:21:28] It's to be a community partner that connects residents to resources that remove economic and
[3:21:34] social barriers.
[3:21:35] You know a resource that can remove economic and social barriers, the city of Tallahassee.
[3:21:42] So, I wish that I were not in this position, I wish that there was a greater openness to
[3:21:51] compromise, to receiving input, to having a budget workshop.
[3:21:56] The implications here are huge.
[3:21:57] There are still so many questions about this budget.
[3:22:01] I feel very uncomfortable moving forward, which is why I will not be supporting the budget.
[3:22:05] But I will, I will support the proposed military because I'm concerned about the implications moving forward and feel that the
[3:22:15] residents of Tallahassee will want those services to continue and will, will need to be there to do that.
[3:22:21] I think it's possible if we sharpen our pencils as well, but that's where I'm at.
[3:22:26] All right, it takes supermajority to pass the resolution on table according to the new state law.
[3:22:31] While there is a motion for approval, the city's milled rate of 4.4072 mills has stayed in resolution number 26-R-31.
[3:22:38] The motion was made by the Mayor of Pro-Tim Curtis Richardson, second by Commissioner Diane Williams-Tox.
[3:22:44] All those in favor of the motion on the table signify by saying aye.
[3:22:49] Aye.
[3:22:49] And those opposed?
[3:22:51] No.
[3:22:51] And it passes four to one with a supermajority with Commissioner Matlow in dissent.
[3:22:57] I would now like to request a motion for the approval of the city's budget appropriation as set fourth in resolution number 26-R-32.
[3:23:05] So moved.
[3:23:06] Probably moved by the Mayor Pro Tem as their second.
[3:23:09] Seconded by the Commissioner Williams Cox.
[3:23:12] All right, all those in favor, second five by saying aye.
[3:23:15] Aye.
[3:23:15] All those opposed.
[3:23:17] That says 5-0 unanimously.
[3:23:20] I would now like to request a motion for the approval of the Downtown Improvement Authority's tentative Millage Rate of 1.000.
[3:23:26] Zero, zero, mill, assay in a resolution number 26-R-31, attachment A in your package,
[3:23:33] recognizing that the proposed aggregate millage rate is more than the rollback rate
[3:23:37] of 4.2782 by 3.47 percent. Is there a motion?
[3:23:43] The moons, the mayor.
[3:23:44] Probably moved by the mayor of Pro-Tim, is there a second?
[3:23:46] Second.
[3:23:47] Seconded by Commissioner Williams-Cox, all those in favor signify by saying aye.
[3:23:51] Aye.
[3:23:51] All those opposed?
[3:23:55] I would now like to request a motion for the approval of the Downtown Improvement Authority's budget as stated in Resolution No. 26-R-32 attachment B of your packet. Is there a motion?
[3:24:07] So moved, Mayor.
[3:24:08] Second.
[3:24:09] Been properly moved by the Mayor Pro Tem, seconded by Commission Weems Cox, in discussion.
[3:24:14] All those in favor, signify by saying aye.
[3:24:17] All those opposed?
[3:24:19] As says unanimously, 5-0, I would now like to request a motion for the approval of the
[3:24:23] Health Care Rape's option one as proposed.
[3:24:28] Second.
[3:24:29] Been probably moved by the Mayor of Pro Tem, seconded by Commissioner Williams Cox, any further
[3:24:33] comment?
[3:24:34] The none, all those in favor, signify by saying aye.
[3:24:36] Aye.
[3:24:37] All those opposed?
[3:24:38] Passes unanimously, 5-0, Madam Attorney.
[3:24:41] Thank you, Mr. Mayor.
[3:24:42] To summarize, the City Commission has tentatively approved the millage rate for both the city and the DIA and the expenditures and obligations of the City of Tallahassee and the DIA for the fiscal year, beginning October 1, 2026, and ending September 30, 2027, designating the sources of revenue and appropriations.
[3:25:01] A public hearing on the final budget will be held on Wednesday, September 23, 2026 at 6 p.m., in the City of Tallahassee City Commission Chambers at City Hall.
[3:25:09] At which time, Resolution No. 26-R-31, setting the milled rate, and Resolution No. 26-R-32, setting the budget, will be presented for approval.
[3:25:21] contingent upon commission action, the resolutions and required budget summary advertisement would be, it will be adjusted for all issues resolved as part of this agenda item.
[3:25:30] At this time, Mr. Mayor, the City Commission is scheduled as part of this agenda item to consider two proposed
[3:25:37] resolution regarding solid waste rates and parking rates.
[3:25:41] So, if I may, the first of these two resolutions, resolution number 26R-29,
[3:25:47] adopting updated solid waste rates reads.
[3:25:50] A resolution of the City Commission of the City of Tallahassee, Florida,
[3:25:54] establishing the schedule of residential and commercial rates for solid waste services,
[3:25:59] pursuant to the code of general ordinances, section 21-51-2, and providing an effective date.
[3:26:06] Mr. Clark, do we have any public speakers on this item?
[3:26:10] No, sir.
[3:26:13] Okay, let's move into commission discussion.
[3:26:17] I am looking for a motion to approve resolution number 26-R-29,
[3:26:22] adopting updated solid waste rates.
[3:26:25] Is there a motion on the table?
[3:26:26] So moved.
[3:26:27] Probably moved by the Mayor of Pro-10,
[3:26:29] Seconded by Commissioner Williams-Cox, discussion.
[3:26:33] Seeing none, all those in favor, signify by saying aye.
[3:26:36] All right.
[3:26:37] All those posed, passes unanimously, 5-0, Madam Attorney.
[3:26:41] The second resolution is resolution number 26-R-30,
[3:26:45] adopting updated parking rates.
[3:26:47] The title of the resolution is a resolution authorizing public parking rates.
[3:26:53] Are there any public speakers on this item, Mr. Clerk?
[3:26:56] No, sir.
[3:26:57] Colleagues, I am looking for a motion to approve resolution number 26-R-30,
[3:27:01] adopting updated parking rates, probably moved by the Mayor of Pro-Tim,
[3:27:06] seconded by Commissioner Williams, Cox, any further discussion?
[3:27:09] Seeing none, all those in favor, seconded by saying aye.
[3:27:12] All those opposed.
[3:27:14] Passes for one with Commissioner Matlow in dissent.
[3:27:18] Do we have any other business to come before us under the budget amount of
[3:27:23] We do not. This closes the public hearing on this item. And once again, the final public hearing on the budget is scheduled for September 23rd, 2000, in 26th.
[3:27:35] We are now trying to-
[3:27:36] Mr. Mayor.
[3:27:38] I didn't want interrupt, but I would like to vote. I meant to vote against the budget. I thought we were voting on the DIA Milidrate. I thought we were doing the Milidrates first. So can the record reflect that?
[3:27:52] I intended to vote no on the budget. I thought when we voted on the budget, that I was voting yes on the DIA's military. So I would like to ask that the record reflects a no vote on the budget which was my intention.
[3:28:07] Supermajority required simply for the military or for the budget as well.
[3:28:12] Not for the budget, just for the millage rate, and Commissioner Porter would be entitled to change
[3:28:19] her vote with the consent of the body.
[3:28:22] Do we need a motion to reconsider?
[3:28:24] It's not really a motion to reconsider, it's just a motion to allow her to change her vote.
[3:28:27] The motion.
[3:28:28] Okay, without objection, unanimously approved.
[3:28:32] Thank you, Mr. Chair.
[3:28:32] We will change Commissioner Porter's vote to a nay vote on the budget.
[3:28:36] It passes 3-2 with Commissioner Matlow and Commissioner Porter in dissent the mayor, the mayor, pro-10, and Commissioner Williams-Cox in favor.
[3:28:46] I voted for the budget.
[3:28:47] You did vote in favor.
[3:28:48] I'm sorry, Commissioner Matlow.
[3:28:49] Okay, let me restate.
[3:28:51] Commissioner Porter has voted against Commissioner Matlow, Commissioner Williams-Cox, the mayor pro-10, and the mayor voted in favor.
[3:28:58] It passes 4-1.
[3:29:00] I'll give that correct.
[3:29:01] Yes.
[3:29:02] Excellent.
[3:29:03] Well, on item number 16.02, Madam Attorney.
[3:29:05] Thank you, Mr. Mayor.
[3:29:07] Item number 16.02 is the public hearing on ordinance number 26-0-11.
[3:29:13] An ordinance of the City of Tallahassee, Florida, amending section 6 of the charter
[3:29:18] of the City of Tallahassee to annex within the corporate area of the City of Tallahassee,
[3:29:23] Florida, upon adoption of set ordinance, property being situated in Leon County,
[3:29:27] Florida, in accordance with the voluntary annexation provisions of section 171.044,
[3:29:33] Florida Statutes, providing for severability, conflicts, and an effective date.
[3:29:37] The recommended option is option one, conduct the first and only public hearing and accept staff recommendation to adopt ordinance number 26-0-11.
[3:29:48] Excellent, do we have any public comment on this item, Mr. Clerk?
[3:29:51] Mayor, we have one speaker, Gary Hunter, presumably two answer questions.
[3:29:54] Okay, colleagues, direction.
[3:29:56] Moves, staff recommendation, option number one.
[3:29:58] It was probably moved by the mayor.
[3:30:00] Or a ten second by Commissioner Williams-Cox, any further discussion?
[3:30:06] The none. All those in favor, second five, by saying aye.
[3:30:09] All those opposed? Passes unanimously for zero with Commissioner Porter out of Chambers, 16.03 Madame Attorney.
[3:30:17] Thank you. Item number 16.03 is the second and final public hearing on the development agreement with DR Horton for portions of property within Southwood.
[3:30:25] The recommended action is option one, conduct the second and final public hearing on the development agreement and approve the agreement.
[3:30:31] I understand John Radick, Growth Management Director, is here on this item this afternoon.
[3:30:36] Excellent. Do we have any public comment on this item?
[3:30:39] When we speak from this item, is Aaron Tilton, again, presumably to answer questions?
[3:30:42] All right. Colleagues, direction.
[3:30:45] Move staff recommendation on option number one.
[3:30:47] Probably moved by option number one by the Mayor Pro Tem, seconded by Commissioner Williams Cox,
[3:30:52] any further discussion? Commissioner Matlow?
[3:30:54] Thank you, Mr. Mayor.
[3:30:56] So I noticed on the attachment that says that this was written by the mayor.
[3:31:01] the developer's attorney?
[3:31:02] Did the city's attorney's office write any part of this order?
[3:31:06] No, I'm attorney.
[3:31:07] The DR Horton order?
[3:31:10] Yeah, are they agreement?
[3:31:11] Did we write any part of it?
[3:31:16] No, it was, the draft was written by Aaron Tilton.
[3:31:24] I'm not sure on this one at what point
[3:31:26] our office was involved in reviewing it.
[3:31:29] Okay, and what?
[3:31:32] I'd have to ask Deputy City Attorney Lewin or Val at what point he was.
[3:31:37] All right, Mr. Matlow.
[3:31:40] So what specifically does this agreement do?
[3:31:44] I'm attorney.
[3:31:47] So again, I guess I would ask John Reddick if he could describe the development agreement.
[3:31:54] And then I can follow up with any legal questions related to it.
[3:31:58] But Mr. Reddick, good to see you, sir.
[3:32:01] So this agreement was provided to the city for consideration as the city attorney stated is written by the developers, representatives, and the agreement is essentially the state that D. R. Horton, who, as you know, is working through permitting for development of three different tracks on the southern portion of the Southwood D. R. I, they would like to have this where they are assuming the role of the developer.
[3:32:29] where as the DRI, of course, have St. Joe currently identified as a role of developer,
[3:32:34] by way of doing that, and part of this is they are assuming the obligations of
[3:32:40] roadway construction through these areas that are outlined in the Southwood DRI.
[3:32:44] So what they are recognized the familiarity with the enforcement action associated with
[3:32:51] the Southwood DRI based on the obligations, around the obligations to build those roadways,
[3:32:55] their proposal to this agreement is they'll assume the obligations that the developer,
[3:33:02] as St. Joe would otherwise have had, they will commit to building them all in time.
[3:33:07] Through this would be held accountable if there was any violation relative to what's outlined
[3:33:15] in the South of the DRI for those specific roadway segments.
[3:33:18] So this is merchant throw and Artemis weigh two portions of this.
[3:33:22] In return, they wouldn't be held accountable or exposed to any enforcement action that may be a result
[3:33:31] of violations occurring outside of these tracks that they're developing.
[3:33:35] Okay.
[3:33:36] And that's what I, my question is about.
[3:33:37] So the developers are ready to proceed, said that they can proceed development on those specified
[3:33:44] lines, even if the internal roads aren't built.
[3:33:47] So, the internals rose within what they're developing would have to be built, certainly.
[3:33:53] And, a voltage transparency, they're working through that right now.
[3:33:57] The development plans that they are doing right now as part of their permitting process,
[3:34:02] incorporate these roadways right now.
[3:34:04] So, it is dependent, I would say, not only are they required to build them.
[3:34:08] What they're proposing to do is very much dependent from a traffic analysis standpoint.
[3:34:13] It doesn't happen without them building these roadways.
[3:34:15] So, that's all to say, they very much will be on the hook for what they are incorporating within their
[3:34:20] development scope.
[3:34:22] And St. Joe's the current owner and they're obligated to build those roadways?
[3:34:27] They are the current owner.
[3:34:29] I would also, some of those questions to the representative of the developer to you on any specifics.
[3:34:36] I know as much as the city serves the permitting process.
[3:34:39] So, what is the benefit to the city?
[3:34:40] Okay, we would still, I would say a net neutral in the sense we still are getting the roadway's built that we intended through our agreement with the DRI, the greater value to the home construction that's associated with it, but certainly from an infrastructure priority, the process or the progress that's being made right now towards constructing those roadways is in line.
[3:35:10] with and I had a schedule with what's stated in the South
[3:35:14] with the R.I.
[3:35:15] And so have we done this type of agreement before?
[3:35:18] I'm not familiar with an agreement like this that would be a
[3:35:21] Carval from an existing agreement with a, I'll say,
[3:35:27] a third party involved in.
[3:35:29] And so why are we doing this now?
[3:35:32] I'm sure this was provided to us and ultimately you for
[3:35:35] consideration.
[3:35:36] So I think in that nature, we would look for your feedback
[3:35:41] So this wasn't directed to be brought by the City Commission who put it on the agenda?
[3:35:46] Correct, this is the our typical procedure on a, on a Belman agreement request or even a amendment to a development agreement would be submitting it through both management.
[3:35:56] There's a fee associated with that and then from there processing it for the two public hearings for the City Commission to consider.
[3:36:02] If I'm hearing you correctly, the process is for a developer to submit a fully written agreement and then have that brought to the City Commission.
[3:36:12] It is often produced that way.
[3:36:15] Another question, thank you, Mr. Mayor.
[3:36:17] Sure, absolutely.
[3:36:20] Let me pipe up and say that we are at a point in the process as the process is described.
[3:36:25] No commissioners do not ask for this individually.
[3:36:28] the way how the process is structured, it comes to us for consideration moving forward,
[3:36:34] Commissioner Matlow. And Madam Attorney, I know that your office has had eyes on this and
[3:36:39] have looked at it. I know that you've been in and out a little bit lately, but I have full confidence in
[3:36:44] your legal team. Yes, I would like to, if the issue, and if you need to dive in, I know that Mr. Norvell is
[3:36:49] here as well, I can help answering questions. I know you got caught off guard there, of course.
[3:36:54] Oh, yes, thank you. But I know that you have been engaged. So there is
[3:36:58] motion on the table made by the Mayor Pro Temp for approval? Say them by Commissioner
[3:37:01] Williams, Cox, Mayor Pro Temp for just a quick question, just Mayor. Is it my understanding
[3:37:06] that this helps us avoid the situation that we're currently in in Southwood with?
[3:37:15] Yes, Commissioner.
[3:37:16] I believe that this development agreement would address that type of agreement.
[3:37:20] So it would behover to behovered then to agree to this type of agreement with the developer?
[3:37:29] That's your decision.
[3:37:30] Okay, on point, Mr. Mayor.
[3:37:32] Mr. Matlow, the Commissioner Porter.
[3:37:34] Thank you, Mr. Mayor, and Commissioner Richardson, my view is it does the exact opposite.
[3:37:39] It relinquishes our ability to use these parcels as part of enforcement against St.
[3:37:45] Joe to develop the roadway and allow these parcels to be developed, no matter if those herdways get built or not.
[3:37:51] Mr. Mayor.
[3:37:52] Mr. Porter.
[3:37:53] Thank you, Mr. Mayor.
[3:37:54] That's my reading as well.
[3:37:55] Well, I would like to hear more from our city attorney as to why she believes the contrary.
[3:38:02] Could I ask Mr. Norvell to?
[3:38:04] Mr. Norvell, please come join us for the fun.
[3:38:17] And I'll just say, while Mr. Norvell is walking up, this is from the agreement.
[3:38:21] Under the agreement, we're from the item.
[3:38:23] Under the agreement, D.R. Horton would be allowed to continue development of its property,
[3:38:27] regardless of the construction and completion status of other roads required by the
[3:38:31] the Southwood development of regional impact, the development order.
[3:38:36] Mr. Raer, could I have the question restated from the police reporter?
[3:38:43] So Commissioner Richardson's question was, does this agreement help us avoid what we are
[3:38:50] going through with St. Joe, and the city attorney's answer was, yes, but that's not how I read
[3:38:58] this agreement. It seems like it leaves St. Joe fully off the hook and the roads being built.
[3:39:07] I mean, I'll just start by asking, was this agreement prompted by the enforcement action against St. Joe?
[3:39:13] Is that why it's coming to us now?
[3:39:16] So Commissioner, I'd have to defer to somebody else.
[3:39:19] What I've understood, and I mean, at least what this office saw is that there was an application that was submitted,
[3:39:26] It did come, the draft agreement did come to the City Attorney's Office, and it did go to growth management.
[3:39:33] Okay, so as to Commissioner Richardson's question, can you address that?
[3:39:39] So some of this may be just kind of practical application that others may be able to speak to better.
[3:39:45] As I understand it, part of this is to give some assurance to this developer here that they can go forward.
[3:39:53] John may be able to speak to kind of where things are in permitting, but I, as I understand
[3:39:58] it, because of some uncertainty with the enforcement action, that this does give certainty
[3:40:06] to this developer to go forward with permitting and to build homes, and there are the assurances
[3:40:12] that this ordinance way in merchants would be good.
[3:40:15] Okay, thank you.
[3:40:16] Thank you.
[3:40:17] Thank you.
[3:40:18] Thank you, Mr. Mayor.
[3:40:21] Aaron Tilton is here and I think she's here.
[3:40:23] We might as well give our opportunity to explain.
[3:40:26] And she's representing DR Horton.
[3:40:28] Thank you for joining us.
[3:40:30] Thank you for having me.
[3:40:32] Appreciate it.
[3:40:33] Aaron Tilton, one of six East College Avenue.
[3:40:36] Sternsweaver Miller on behalf of DR Horton.
[3:40:39] You know, commissioners, I think there are a couple of questions about chapter 163 development agreements generally.
[3:40:44] they are used in pretty much every jurisdiction across the state to encourage private investment
[3:40:51] in capital infrastructure. And the way that you do that through a chapter 163 agreement
[3:40:57] is you provide the applicant with assurances that if it makes these very significant investments
[3:41:02] in infrastructure that are going to be built out over time, that those investments are not interrupted
[3:41:08] by changes in the status quo during the course of the development.
[3:41:14] All right, Commissioner Portage, I would like to be recognized when you finish.
[3:41:17] Okay, thank you.
[3:41:20] So that's particularly important in a very large-scale master plan community like Southwood
[3:41:25] again that has significant infrastructure that is built out over a long period of time.
[3:41:31] And so in protecting that, the private investment, what the city additionally gets through
[3:41:37] a development agreement is another mechanism to enforce the applicant's infrastructure obligation.
[3:41:43] So you asked the question, does this help us avoid a situation like we have the St. Joe in the
[3:41:47] future? You would have the same exact, you know, enforcement capabilities under the DRI development
[3:41:53] order with regard to the roadway obligations that DR Horton is agreeing to assume. You would also
[3:41:59] have contractual obligations and statutory remedies in addition to what's allowed in your DRI development
[3:42:05] in order that you could enforce if those roadways are not completed.
[3:42:09] Under this agreement, DR Horton has to complete those improvements on the same schedule that is currently laid out in Exhibit G to the DRI,
[3:42:17] and those are associated with MDR 1920, so they are in the pods that DR Horton will be developing.
[3:42:24] They are on the south side of the Southwood DRI, they are nowhere near Orange Avenue.
[3:42:30] The R-Warton has multiple, as you noted in Mr. Mallow, they have multiple properties under contract within the Southwood DRI.
[3:42:36] They have not asked for this development agreement to cover all of those properties.
[3:42:40] They've asked for it to cover the properties where they are building their own infrastructure independent of what St. Joe may have obligated in other places within the DRI.
[3:42:49] Mr. Report, do you recognize?
[3:42:53] Thank you, Mr. Mayor.
[3:42:55] And I understand the point of a development agreement, and I know that the roads are not that in question with St. Joe or not here, I do have to say it makes me uncomfortable.
[3:43:05] I mean, I would prefer to hear from our own staff about the public benefit of an agreement like this and not from the developer's attorney, but I do appreciate that explanation.
[3:43:15] But I mean, I think it is, you know, we have been through this before.
[3:43:20] I'll let this go because we still have other items to hear from.
[3:43:24] But, you know, the way I see this, this is a giveaway to St. Joe.
[3:43:30] We, frankly, didn't do what we needed to do to make sure that that development agreement was upheld.
[3:43:37] And now we're giving them an out because they don't want to develop that area anymore.
[3:43:43] So, I have concerns about this and concerns about this process, frankly, so that's where I'm not.
[3:43:49] Thank you. I'm ready to move on.
[3:43:50] Commissioner Porter, we've spent as much time as you'd like on this issue, so I don't want you to feel rushed if you have additional questions or comments.
[3:43:57] Right back in, Commissioner Williams-Cox.
[3:44:00] I think the net net is, when all this is said and done, how many homes were anticipating being built?
[3:44:08] So, LSF 11 and MDR 20, our single family 19 is both a combination of multi-family and single-family around
[3:44:19] 800 units when you include multi-family.
[3:44:22] Okay, so how the city benefits is that we have a housing inventory that we're trying to build.
[3:44:27] You do and it's also about a price part, a price point that does not currently exist in the market.
[3:44:32] Right. So, you know, after all of this is said and done, the net net is that how we, how it benefits the city and its residents is growing number of residents is housing and to help make it affordable because we have more housing in the inventory to be competitive with other housing.
[3:44:50] Absolutely, Commissioner, and I'd also say the alternative with the current situation with
[3:44:55] Southwood and St. Joe and potential non-compliance without something like a development agreement
[3:45:00] Place, you're essentially looking at, no one is coming in to build in software. Thank you. Mr. Matlow, you have questions. Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Yeah, just one. So, so what's your understanding of the Oran's ability to develop on these lots with those other roads not being constructed that are not included? With which other roads specifically? The Orange Avenue extension and build more? My understanding of their ability to build on these roadways today is that they are not covered by the non-compliance finding. They would be able to build today now.
[3:45:29] whether that noncompliance area is expanded in the future, is a big question mark.
[3:45:35] Okay, and so I asked John Arde the same question, what's the purpose of this agreement?
[3:45:39] The purpose of this agreement is to provide stability for these significant investment that DR Horton is making in taking on those infrastructure obligations that would not otherwise be theirs.
[3:45:48] Okay, thank you, Mr. Chair.
[3:45:50] I've got a motion on table made by Mayor Perth, saying my commission with Cox, all those in favor of the motion,
[3:45:55] by saying aye.
[3:45:56] Aye.
[3:45:57] All those opposed.
[3:45:58] Okay.
[3:45:59] Passes three to two with Commissioner Matt Lillan,
[3:46:00] Commissioner Porter against.
[3:46:02] Ron, item number 16.4, Madam Attorney.
[3:46:06] Thank you, Mr. Mayor.
[3:46:08] This is the first of two, item number 16.04
[3:46:11] is the first of two public hearings on the third amended
[3:46:14] and restated canopy development agreement.
[3:46:16] The second public hearing scheduled for September 23rd, 2026.
[3:46:20] The recommended action is option one.
[3:46:22] Conduct the first public hearing on the development agreement
[3:46:24] in schedule the second and final public hearing for September 23rd, 2026 at 6 p.m.
[3:46:29] in the City of Tallahassee City Commission Chambers at City Hall.
[3:46:32] Again, John Reddick, Growth Management Director, will present this item or is available to answer questions.
[3:46:37] Thank you, Ms. Clerk, do we have any public comment on this item?
[3:46:40] Here, again, I have two speakers on this item.
[3:46:43] I assume both to answer questions.
[3:46:44] Lynn Adams, Takas and Aaron Tilton.
[3:46:47] All right.
[3:46:52] Second.
[3:46:54] We're going to get there in just a second.
[3:46:55] This may do either one of our public speakers want to speak.
[3:47:01] Okay, excellent.
[3:47:02] Let's go with presentation.
[3:47:06] Thank you, Mayor.
[3:47:07] I don't have a presentation on this.
[3:47:10] I am just available for questions if we need to.
[3:47:12] It's similar to the prior previous item.
[3:47:14] This was submitted for consideration to staff.
[3:47:17] They did this would be the first of two public hearings.
[3:47:20] Your recommended actions essentially to hold the first public hearing and schedule the second.
[3:47:25] I think at this point, the proposal that was submitted to us, the primary component of an amendment to the canopy development agreement would be omitting the developer's obligation or intent.
[3:47:41] I should say to instruct the roadway connection, Densey Mayo, at Mika Sookie currently terminates essentially at the bounds of the Mika Sookie greenway.
[3:47:51] what is contemplated certainly in the development agreement and the planning of the development to extend across the greenway and tie-in with the existing where HIMC may have currently broached from the East Earth, excuse me, from South into the key.
[3:48:06] So there are other components that were submitted, that have been submitted for consideration.
[3:48:12] I'll say the bulk of the in terms of individual items is acknowledging a lot of obligations that were expected when this was
[3:48:21] originally drafted, but since been fulfilled, there's also proposed revisions to the bus shelter requirements
[3:48:30] for them. There's a recognition of the termination of the inclusion and housing agreement which
[3:48:37] occurred in 2024. So with that, I would certainly, you know, have any questions of the proposal
[3:48:46] That's all in the details behind it to the representative present for the developer.
[3:48:51] But with that from staff side, we look for your direction.
[3:48:55] I'm Mr. Puzzle.
[3:48:56] Go back to public comment, Mr. Plurk.
[3:48:59] Two speakers on the item mayor, Lynn Adams-Takas.
[3:49:09] Excellent, your name and address for the record.
[3:49:11] Lynn Adams-Takas, two and three, three Miller landing road.
[3:49:15] And unfortunately, I don't have prepared comments, so I just went ahead and brought this with me.
[3:49:18] Some of the main components of this developer agreement, which, again, is written by the developer in their best interest,
[3:49:28] is that road construction responsibilities will shift to taxpayers.
[3:49:32] And let's just all remember, Wallani Boulevard is already being built to help support these luxury developments.
[3:49:39] I think the original cost will space be $78 million, currently it's at $202 million.
[3:49:46] It's the most expensive of three major roadway projects going on for Blueprint that all combined
[3:49:52] through about 15 miles of road, little less, and over half a billion dollars.
[3:49:57] So if we're looking for opportunities to help, you know, balance our budget,
[3:50:02] I think one of the main things I would look at is not taking over responsibilities for the public
[3:50:07] to pay for roads that the developer has obligated to.
[3:50:11] Canopy would get reserved road capacity, even if the roads become congested.
[3:50:16] The development can change without amending the agreement, which also cuts the public
[3:50:22] out of picking comments.
[3:50:24] The agreement would lock in provisions for 15 years under the Decurrent Development Code,
[3:50:30] and I don't know if you'll have notice, but we've had a lot of extreme heat days this summer.
[3:50:35] It is so, that, that's hot.
[3:50:37] And a big reason for that is because we keep taking all the trees out, and I know everybody's
[3:50:42] like, oh my gosh, a tree hugger.
[3:50:44] But trees matter, and we have opportunities to keep more of them in what is our open space,
[3:50:49] slash green space, which right now let you just clear everything out and put salt on it.
[3:50:55] And so we may, Lord Willen, change our development code in the future, to keep more of our forested
[3:51:01] areas in what is already set aside space.
[3:51:05] But under this new development code, our developer agreement, if we were to change that next
[3:51:11] 15 years, it won't matter, because they won't be obligated to follow the new code.
[3:51:18] So you're handcuffing a future commission.
[3:51:21] The other is that part of the Vellani Boulevard in this development agreement says it will
[3:51:27] be six lanes.
[3:51:29] And I don't think a lot of people realize that what part of Vellani Boulevard will be is equal to what we have on Thomasville Road.
[3:51:37] So there's a lot of important parts to this that I think, you know, the developer is going to write it in their best interest in what we need y'all to do to look out for our best interest.
[3:51:48] And that is what I'm asking you to do.
[3:51:50] Please do not just vote for this next time.
[3:51:53] It's actually look out for the public, because right now,
[3:51:57] Volani Boulevard is already a boon doggle.
[3:52:01] So let's not add to it.
[3:52:03] And let's not add to what taxpayers are paying.
[3:52:07] And keep raising their taxes while we're given developers a free ride.
[3:52:12] Thank you.
[3:52:15] Next speaker is Aaron Tilton.
[3:52:20] Your name and address for the record, please.
[3:52:22] Thank you, commissioners.
[3:52:23] Aaron Tilton, one on six east college avenues, we've remillered on behalf of the applicant.
[3:52:27] As Mr. Reddick mentioned, the item before you is an amendment to the development agreement
[3:52:31] for Canopy.
[3:52:33] That development agreement was originally approved in 2011.
[3:52:36] It's been amended just about once every five or six years since 2011, which again with
[3:52:42] a large scale master plan community built out over a decent span of time, that is fairly
[3:52:49] common.
[3:52:51] So the development agreement has been amended in 2016, 2020, and now, 2026, you have this amendment
[3:52:57] before you.
[3:52:58] Importantly, there's no changes being proposed to the development program here.
[3:53:02] This is really entirely cleanup of existing obligations and clarification where we've realized
[3:53:08] over time that that was needed.
[3:53:10] I want to talk real quick about the roadway.
[3:53:12] The origin of that extension of Dempsey Mayo across the Greenway to connect to Micah City Road
[3:53:18] actually dates back to 1998, when the landowner initially conveyed the greenway to the trust for public land,
[3:53:25] a easement across the greenway was reserved for a future roadway access in 2002, when the city and
[3:53:32] the county adopted the Wallani critical area plan. They adopted a policy that provided for road access
[3:53:38] at Mekosaki and Dempsey, Mayo, across the greenway within that reserved easement, if it was determined by the
[3:53:45] local government, that a connection would have a desirable impact on the Vickasuki
[3:53:49] Canopy Road. That issue came in front of your predecessors in 2006, that your predecessor
[3:53:56] commission based on an expert report and analysis that were submitted by the landowner
[3:54:00] found that that connection point would have a desirable impact. And that was memorialized
[3:54:05] in a prior agreement we refer to as the amended and restated USA. That agreement says
[3:54:12] The city and owners agree that the owners shall be entitled to access, make a
[3:54:19] sticky road at Dempsey, Mayo within that reserved access management.
[3:54:22] But sometime between 2006 and the present day, this narrative has come forward that
[3:54:29] the developer is obligated to build that roadway.
[3:54:32] That was never the case.
[3:54:33] It's never been in the development agreement.
[3:54:35] It's never been in the PUD.
[3:54:36] It's never been in the Wallani critical area plan.
[3:54:39] It has always been that the developer is entitled to that access point, based on a showing that they made to a prior commission of a desirable impact.
[3:54:47] This came to a head, you may remember a little bit over a year ago, the County Commission on its own initiative took up an agenda item to talk about the McKiswicky Canopy Road Greenway and this roadway in particular, and got into a public discussion of actually designing that roadway through the greenway in which the developer was not at the table.
[3:55:05] There was, of course, quite a bit of public opposition to putting that roadway in place.
[3:55:12] That was the point at which we realized this narrative was out in the public that we were required to build the roadway, and that we want needed to add this as one of the things we would clarify when we brought the development agreement forward, will clean up as we have done just about every five years since it was developed.
[3:55:27] Thank you, Mr. Dillon, if you'll just stick around if there's additional questions.
[3:55:32] Thanks, Speaker, please.
[3:55:34] Those are the only speakers on the item.
[3:55:35] All right, well, Commissioner and discussion.
[3:55:36] Director, I actually remember this is the first of two public hearings.
[3:55:39] It will be coming back to us in September as well.
[3:55:43] Your motion to move forward, Commissioner Porter.
[3:55:46] Thank you, Mr. Mayor.
[3:55:47] I would like to ask if Mr. Reddick can come back up to answer some questions.
[3:55:52] Reddick.
[3:55:53] So, since the original PUD predates my time on the commission, can someone just address why the prior requirements were put into place originally?
[3:56:05] The requirements of the development agreement, just all of them, I mean, all of them.
[3:56:12] Sure, because it was all encompassing, a lot of it predated the current developers' involvement actually in this property, and then they've amended and restated as they assumed those obligations.
[3:56:24] So, I would say, chiefly, the largest was tied to the build out of Wallani Boulevard, the developer got a lot of, they participated in the construction of that and never turned out.
[3:56:36] The currency credits, they also committed to, for example, the transit facilities.
[3:56:44] They also, again, there was the inclusionary housing component which separately they benefited from.
[3:56:49] That was related to, or at that time, what was our inclusionary housing ordinance.
[3:56:53] They benefited from density entitlement bonuses, essentially.
[3:56:57] So, the net benefit and why the city entered into the agreement was pretty diverse.
[3:57:06] in reason, but I would say the largest component of it,
[3:57:11] certainly financially was infrastructure-related.
[3:57:13] There was a lot of, I think there was even underground utilities included.
[3:57:18] So, and then also recognize the location for a new senior center.
[3:57:25] The city got returned for the participation.
[3:57:29] Okay, thank you.
[3:57:31] Are there any cost impacts to the city by entering,
[3:57:35] if we enter into this agreement or accept the amendment agreement?
[3:57:40] For consideration, that we recognized is that the city's currency, certainly recognizing
[3:57:50] the developers, you know, they're real obligation to that versus we've certainly proceeded with the intent that it would be constructed in the sense of as part of the build out by the developer.
[3:58:03] or is that our concurrency system modeling, for example,
[3:58:08] has assumed that connection would be a case
[3:58:14] or within the timeframe of this development
[3:58:17] or development agreement, excuse me.
[3:58:20] So that is one where essentially assuming a more connected
[3:58:24] roadway network meant for, I'll say,
[3:58:28] a better assessment of traffic impacts,
[3:58:30] Because the state of intent both within the critical area of plan and within development agreement is that that connection would be there to relieve traffic off of the canopy roads and for the broader network.
[3:58:45] So to say since canopy has been built out when we look at one, let's say, phase of residential construction.
[3:58:53] We are modeling the traffic impacts on that based on the assumption that the fact connection is going to be there and we would have done I'm moving forward.
[3:59:02] So that is something for consideration where the city may have had, there may have been more impact concurrency impacts and traffic impacts from things that have occurred already and would be, you know, will occur moving forward for the full build out that the city is looking at this proposal.
[3:59:22] Okay. Thank you. So, I want to make sure I understand. So,
[3:59:29] there is an impact, obviously, if, well, let me back up for a second.
[3:59:34] So, the concurrency calculation in the original agreement or the latest agreement assumed that Dempsey Mayo would be constructed.
[3:59:45] Correct.
[3:59:45] So we're looking at a, let's say, 100 homes that may be built in a phase, we're assessing
[3:59:52] the traffic network, the demands it'll put on our network, and within that model we have
[3:59:57] that connection made.
[3:59:59] so it's just...
[4:00:08] As far as I could tell, and I think you've just addressed this, I didn't see anything in this agreement that addresses the concurrency calculations directly, other than language that reads to me to say we'll handle this later in a separate agreement. Is that accurate? The language you're referring to is the extent of that. Okay. And may I ask why would we do that?
[4:00:29] Why wouldn't we include it in this agreement?
[4:00:33] Frankly, Commissioner, we would look at your direction on that.
[4:00:35] We wanted to incorporate that and assess that in more detail,
[4:00:40] rather than evaluating it after the fact.
[4:00:43] Okay.
[4:00:45] What, and now just jumping forward a little bit
[4:00:49] to talk about the roundabout at the intersection of Wallani and Dempsey Mayo.
[4:00:54] So this agreement would eliminate the roundabout, or we wouldn't move forward with the roundabout, is that correct?
[4:01:07] I don't know that necessarily changes the type of intersection if it does get built.
[4:01:12] Again, I think it's still contemplated another, excuse me, a number of other areas that it would be around about.
[4:01:19] But I think the change is that,
[4:01:24] essentially, maybe someone else is stepping into do that, not
[4:01:31] continuing to do that.
[4:01:33] Okay. I'm seeing shaking heads behind you.
[4:01:39] Yes, please.
[4:01:40] Milton, Roma.
[4:01:42] Thank you. Apologies for interrupting.
[4:01:45] So the way this agreement is drafted, we're not saying the developer is not going to build this connection.
[4:01:50] We are saying they are not obligated to build this connection.
[4:01:54] If at some point in the future, it makes sense from a traffic standpoint, from a
[4:01:57] development standpoint, all of those factors, it may get built.
[4:02:02] It may get built by this developer.
[4:02:05] They're not, they're, they're simply, we're simply clarifying because of the narrative
[4:02:09] that is out there in the public that this is not an obligation associated with this
[4:02:13] development.
[4:02:14] And then to the concurrency question, I think that's one of the reasons we're not
[4:02:17] addressing concurrency now, because it still may get bills.
[4:02:21] If we're concerned about a concurrency refund, I can tell you this developer's also sitting
[4:02:25] on a couple million dollars in concurrency credit right now from other infrastructure they
[4:02:28] have built for this community.
[4:02:29] So it's really not something that I would be all concerned with at this point.
[4:02:34] Okay.
[4:02:35] Thank you.
[4:02:38] I am concerned about it, but I appreciate that response.
[4:02:41] months. Can you speak a little bit to why we are eliminating the minimum for transit
[4:02:48] shelters? I would like to hear from our staff. Thank you.
[4:02:57] The. Yeah, why did we accept that? What is the rationale for the city, for the public
[4:03:03] benefit? Mr. Mayor, I can help it. Mr. Mayor, you're jumping. I think Wayne might be
[4:03:10] able to help a little more.
[4:03:11] I believe in the original agreement it might have been five, three to five, three to five.
[4:03:17] We now have more information on that based on the way the development has occurred and
[4:03:21] what our expectations could be in terms of shelters.
[4:03:25] And so I think it's a refinement of what we think could be added.
[4:03:28] That's why the number, we're comfortable with the change in the commitment.
[4:03:34] When, do I have anything else to add to that one?
[4:03:39] Thatter, bottom line commissioner is that if staff sees the need for five, we will get five because it's written in a way that it's going to be approved by the city regardless of the number but there may not be the need for five within that development.
[4:03:57] Mr. Porter.
[4:03:58] Thank you, Mr. Mayor.
[4:04:00] I think that, you know, we have now just gone through this process with St. Joe where there
[4:04:07] was, there were questions and uncertainty. There's so much uncertainty and this is an
[4:04:14] agreement like this as Miss Tilton explained, is that it provides a benefit to the public through
[4:04:24] to assurance mutually between the public, the city, and the developer.
[4:04:30] So, you know, these concurrency fees, these traffic impact fees are hundreds of thousands if not millions of dollars.
[4:04:38] I'm not comfortable leaving that up to chance, especially with all due respect when we've had issues with this developer.
[4:04:49] with, I mean the gas, the gas station issue, you know, this is not, it is not my job to trust
[4:04:56] a developer. It is my job to put faith in our staff to represent the public interest
[4:05:04] when we're having these negotiations and these conversations. And I don't know, it feels
[4:05:10] a little bit rushed given that there are some outstanding questions that I would feel
[4:05:16] much more comfortable moving forward with if we had answers, too.
[4:05:24] So I would like to make a substitute motion.
[4:05:29] There's no motion on the table.
[4:05:30] Okay, then I'll make a motion.
[4:05:33] I also notice, is there staff recommendation on this item?
[4:05:40] Mr. R, our only recommendation was to hold this public hearing, certainly with the intent of receiving your feedback and direction in response to what input for you.
[4:05:50] And so our only recommendation is to schedule a second public hearing, our recommendation was for the next September 13th.
[4:05:56] Okay, one other question.
[4:05:58] What is the impact, what utilities would have run in the roadway along Dempsey, Mayo,
[4:06:03] and does that impact other city plans?
[4:06:07] Mr. Mayor, I think I can.
[4:06:08] I think I can.
[4:06:09] Mr. Banger.
[4:06:09] With that, the utility easement and location is for the electric utility.
[4:06:15] And so this agreement would contemplate that the developer would provide that access.
[4:06:20] and that necessary, the easements necessary for that, this does clarify that, it's helpful
[4:06:27] to us as a city and the utility system, and those easements and placement of those utilities
[4:06:35] would be necessary for the next phase of their development.
[4:06:39] So we feel good about that because it provides clarity that we can have access, we can get
[4:06:46] the right way necessary and we work with the developer in the correct way to expand those utilities.
[4:06:52] Okay, thank you. And then one final question I promise. So on page 14, under utilities,
[4:07:00] the new language says the respective obligations of the parties relative to the provision of natural
[4:07:05] gas to the canopy project, including construction of the gas line along the Lonnie Bill of Art, have been
[4:07:10] completed. So, it's my understanding from reading this that the developer had agreed
[4:07:17] to pay the city $165,000 to be applied by the city toward the cost of installing the
[4:07:23] gas line along the Lonnie Boulevard. So, I want clarification on this. The gas line has
[4:07:31] been completed. The city incurred that expense. And the developer had agreed to pay the city
[4:07:39] the $165,000 to be applied for the cost of installing the gas line.
[4:07:46] That is stricken, was that, did the developer apply, was that amount applied to the city?
[4:07:54] Mr. Mayor, I can answer that.
[4:07:56] Mr. Mayor, the commission report, so that question was posed to the gas utility.
[4:08:01] That provision was an original provision in there, the developer did participate as needed.
[4:08:05] to add the gas line, the gas utility is confirmed that all the work is done.
[4:08:11] I do not believe the money was paid because it was not necessary.
[4:08:14] The question was posed to the gas utility, is it necessary and they said no.
[4:08:18] So the request for a movement is an intent to clean it up because that work has been satisfied.
[4:08:25] Okay, and can you just help me understand what does it mean that it's not necessary?
[4:08:30] Well, I'd have to ask somebody in the gas utility to answer it, right?
[4:08:33] So but the construction is taking place the right away was provided that work is done and the gas utility would
[4:08:41] satisfy with that effort.
[4:08:42] This is now years ago.
[4:08:44] Okay, so did it not cost us money to provide natural gas or the infrastructure?
[4:08:54] I just want to make sure I understand.
[4:08:56] Yeah, of course, it would have caused some money to the gas utilities as you might imagine to expand our main and when we do these development agreements, it's providing for access, you know, other means. And so that was satisfied by the developer.
[4:09:15] Satisfactually to the gas utility, I guess is the best way I can say it.
[4:09:20] Okay. Thank you, Mr. Mayor.
[4:09:25] I think, and I appreciate staff's explanations. I think
[4:09:32] it, in the future, I would love us to have a more comprehensive staff report. You know,
[4:09:38] these are agreements that, as everyone understands now, you know, go back many years. They're complicated
[4:09:45] agreements. It would be really helpful if, in our agenda materials, it could just be like
[4:09:49] side-by-side. Here's what it did, here's what it does. I understand I can read through the
[4:09:55] agreement as I did and there's strike-throughs. But this is a lot of money. I mean, the implications
[4:10:01] of this are pretty significant. I don't like making decisions like this without having all
[4:10:06] of the information and understanding the financial impact, which according to this agenda material
[4:10:15] item says there is none, but it seems to me that there is one, because we don't know, at the very
[4:10:21] least, we know there's one thing we don't know, which is hundreds of thousands of dollars, potentially,
[4:10:25] and that's the concurrency. So, I'm not comfortable moving forward, and I would move that we do not,
[4:10:34] for option two, that we do not hold the first public hearing, and that, you know, staff can come back
[4:10:40] Back to us with this, with, at the very least, the concurrency figure factored in.
[4:10:47] I'm not comfortable saying that that's just something we're going to figure out later in a separate agreement.
[4:10:52] So is that, is my motion clear?
[4:10:55] Option number two has been proudly made by Commissioner Porter, is there a second?
[4:10:59] Second.
[4:10:59] Seconded by Commissioner Matlow, you're recognized for comment.
[4:11:02] Thank you, Mr. Mayor, and Mr. Riddick, the same question on the other item.
[4:11:06] The attachment says that this agreement was prepared by the developers, attorneys, did your staff work on this agreement?
[4:11:15] We did do a preliminary review of it.
[4:11:17] I think some of our feedback was pertaining to questions about concurrency impacts for this, certainly.
[4:11:31] I think our next step in this and receiving it, and doing our review of it was all such a place in front of you and look for a direction on something that's basically based on what was being considered.
[4:11:44] Okay, so did you make any edits or revisions to what was submitted by the developer?
[4:11:48] We haven't directly made provisions on this and something that was provided to us as it is.
[4:11:55] Okay.
[4:11:59] Back to the underlying question, which I still wasn't clear, does this eliminate the developer's obligation to build the Dempsey
[4:12:07] Mayo roadway?
[4:12:08] I would state it as the developer is delimiting their sole entitlement to do, which is probably a better way to
[4:12:17] Is there currently entitle to do it, like the city doesn't have the easement rights to go there and do if we wanted to ourselves, what they're proposing is to step back and say the city may can have easement rights to do so or separately contract with the developer to do it or the developer has still in the state that may decide to step up and do it their own on their own, so their their intent is to clarify their obligation on this and unnecessarily relinquish an obligation.
[4:12:46] Okay, and so I mean, I think that makes it more unclear of what concurrency will look like, what traffic will look like, what utilities to these lots will look like.
[4:12:56] I mean, frankly, on first reading to me, it looks like it's transferring financial responsibility away from the developer to the city government.
[4:13:05] That's an issue for me.
[4:13:06] It's an issue for me that we're operating in a way that developers, attorneys, draft these agreements, and then we bring them to the city commission with no edits.
[4:13:14] It makes me wonder who's actually looking after the city's best interest, and I support the motion.
[4:13:19] Thank you, Mr. Mayor.
[4:13:20] Thank you, Mr. Williams-Cox.
[4:13:21] Thank you, Mr. Mayor.
[4:13:23] I guess Mr. Radek and Aaron, the city manager, is this kind of different than any other process that we've done with items like this?
[4:13:34] Does it sound like we've been doing this for years?
[4:13:37] Commissioner, if I can answer that, just for a different voice, this is a really old development
[4:13:46] agreement that has been amended from time to time as the development has changed, things
[4:13:50] are new, things have been satisfied, there's new information, and I think that's what you
[4:13:55] see.
[4:13:56] There's probably a natural cycle to that, development agreements really are static, and that's
[4:14:03] what you're seeing. In this case, there's clarification in terms of the roadway.
[4:14:07] I would tell you from my point of view, I'm not sure that road connections ever made.
[4:14:14] That probably is for some time in the future. There's been a lot of debate about it. There's
[4:14:19] a considerable amount of public opposition to that roadway, notably in the Westminster
[4:14:24] or OAPS area, I think it's safe for me to say that they would wish that not to happen.
[4:14:33] So I think this agreement provides that clarity of how that could work if the roadway was
[4:14:40] ever developed, which I would venture to guess is not likely.
[4:14:45] But even with that, we need clarity on right away and easements for utilities and other things
[4:14:50] because the development is expected to continue to go.
[4:14:53] So this does provide clarity that's helpful to the city, that's a developer that is contemporary.
[4:15:00] I think that's how these agreements typically evolve. I just don't want to publicly think that the developer can come in to give us an agreement and we just go running with it without edits or anything like that. That happens later in the process in the planning process. And for these, like you said, this has been around since 1998, 2011, here we are, 2026. So a lot of things have evolved and we'll continue to evolve. I just want to make sure that the public knows that we're not just taking what developers give us.
[4:15:29] Our staff, you know, very well capable of doing what needs to be done to make sure that we're following the laws and procedures that we follow with every development, we don't pick and choose who we pick on, we follow for everybody.
[4:15:44] And my last question is, is this not the public here?
[4:15:50] I thought this was the public here.
[4:15:52] And there will be a second public here, so how then could we do not hold the first public here and provide direction to staff?
[4:16:09] Well, the motion on the table is basically a spend action and not move forward with the second public.
[4:16:14] Okay, so that's what's before us today.
[4:16:17] Commissioner Porter has, I'm summarizing Commissioner Porter,
[4:16:20] that promotion is, let's put a pause, we don't need to move forward with the second public hearing.
[4:16:26] Well, thank you for that clarification because I cannot support that because 1998, 2011, 2026,
[4:16:35] when does this, when does this, when do we, when do we, when do we get going?
[4:16:40] I think we should proceed with the, with it and get questions answered between now and September 23rd,
[4:16:47] from the developer, the growth management, attorney, manager,
[4:16:51] whomever we have time to get that information before the second and final public hearing.
[4:16:57] So I think we need to, we should move forward so that we have an opportunity to get those very
[4:17:02] good questions that were asked answered so that we are, we'll set them for the second public hearing
[4:17:08] and then we go from there.
[4:17:09] Mr. Ninewood's cocks is making a substitute motion for option number one.
[4:17:14] I will second them by the mayor, Pro Tem.
[4:17:17] On the substitute motion, this is the first of two.
[4:17:21] This development agreement has been going on for nearly 30 years now, or over 30 years now.
[4:17:26] We do have some questions that I respect from our colleagues.
[4:17:28] We don't think we'll work in the next two weeks, make sure to get it.
[4:17:32] But I'm not ready to pause quite yet while we're still in the discussion before move forward to the second public.
[4:17:40] So, yes, I had questions, but it's my understanding that when this comes back to us, I mean, we're approving it, like we're not going to, the development agreement coming back to us for second hearing is not going to address the concerns that I raised.
[4:18:05] I just want to clarify that the language we approve today is the language that will be for us at the second public hearing, and will not be able to be amended, then, because it would be considered, I think, a substantial amendment, is that accurate?
[4:18:21] Yes, and if the answers are not satisfactory to this board, and still agrees, then it will be voted down at the time.
[4:18:31] These are serious issues that are being raised and discussed, and this is a very big development agreement that dates over 30 years.
[4:18:38] There's always the opportunity for it to be defeated at the next public hearing, correct?
[4:18:42] All those in favor of the substitute motion on the table made by Commissioner Williams-Cox,
[4:18:46] Seconded by the Mayor of Pro Tem, signify by saying aye.
[4:18:48] All those opposed.
[4:18:50] Pass us thirty to two with Commissioner Matlow and Commissioner Porter in opposition.
[4:18:55] Do we have anything else to come before us at this public hearing?
[4:18:58] No, Mr. Mayor.
[4:18:59] Okay, we are on item number 12.03 under policy formation and direction.
[4:19:05] Mr. Manager.
[4:19:07] Thank you, Mr. Mayor.
[4:19:08] Let me introduce it.
[4:19:09] Would you mind coming forward, if I could ask you to participate?
[4:19:16] Commissioners, your recall at your last meeting, Commissioner Richardson actually asked
[4:19:21] for this item to come back.
[4:19:23] It involves the Appalachia Ridge Technology Center that's located at 937 Kindle Drive.
[4:19:30] There's been a request from, and Christine, you correct me if I say this wrong,
[4:19:35] the Greater Appalachia Ridge of State's Neighborhood Association.
[4:19:38] It, Miss Henry, are you representing that group?
[4:19:41] Yes, I am.
[4:19:41] And Miss Henry has made a request.
[4:19:44] We've got a full agenda item that talks about the facility, the nature of the ownership,
[4:19:49] the maintenance, the participation, it's a technology center for youth in the history of it.
[4:19:56] Mr. Mayor of the town.
[4:19:56] Mr. Mayor of the town.
[4:19:57] If I may, I think it's best to ask Miss Henry just to give us a quick summary of the
[4:20:02] request, if you don't mind.
[4:20:04] Okay.
[4:20:04] And then Wayne Tetter is the staff member on this item.
[4:20:08] Did you have a question?
[4:20:09] My question is, will there be a staff presentation?
[4:20:14] Mr. Tetter can summarize any matters you would like, and we'll fill in any gaps that may exist.
[4:20:24] Mr. Henry?
[4:20:26] Hey, yeah, how are you doing?
[4:20:28] First of all, thank you so much, commission for taking this up as an item for consideration today.
[4:20:33] Okay, let me just give you a little bit of backdrop.
[4:20:36] This item is the culmination of over 20 years of resident advocacy, resident engagement, and resident leadership within the Appalachia Ridge and Greater Appalachia Ridge, which is what we call the 10.02 census tract of Leon County.
[4:20:52] The original neighborhood improvement planning process, which was adopted by the city, did a whole lot of things that created a lot of wins for the community address.
[4:21:01] a storm water management, traffic and safety,
[4:21:04] it addressed issues related to flooding,
[4:21:07] it addressed a whole lot of things and a whole lot of wins
[4:21:10] that we have seen matriculate into factors of value,
[4:21:15] increase in homeownership, increase in economic trajectory
[4:21:18] within that census tract.
[4:21:20] Part of that conversation was this Appalachia Ridge
[4:21:23] Technology and Learning Center.
[4:21:26] When it was created, it was purchased with municipal puns,
[4:21:30] But it was funded through a partnership that was facilitated through an organization called the Community Renaissance Neighborhood Partnership.
[4:21:37] That community Renaissance Neighborhood Partnership had over $60,000 of commitments from municipal partners,
[4:21:44] Leon County, City, Tallahassee, the state of Florida, Florida State University,
[4:21:48] as well as NCON personnel that came to the table and said, we will fund the programmatic mission of this center as it relates,
[4:21:55] and as it resonates in the voice of the residents who wanted it as a facility at that time when we used
[4:22:01] flocking this and phone ports to get on the internet. So that just lets you know the context and the age of this
[4:22:08] of this work. When the economic recession hit the community programs were in full swing at the time of
[4:22:16] launch in 2007, reach youth within our community. We have generations of youth that are now employed
[4:22:22] by city and state and local government and businesses that went through the Appalachian
[4:22:26] Ridge Technology and Learning Center, there were much dollars, much grant writing that
[4:22:30] happened that benefited the work.
[4:22:32] But once the economic recession hit the center, then we were at a place where we couldn't,
[4:22:39] where that CNRP model fell into decline.
[4:22:44] And so as a neighborhood association, we were faced with one option, not two, because we weren't
[4:22:49] going to close it down, that was the vision, that was the value, that was the voice of
[4:22:53] the residents, resonating through the work of that center, that would impact the generations
[4:22:57] to come. So, under the management of Anita favors at the time, she said, Christine, bring
[4:23:03] us a proposal from the neighborhood, engage them and see what they want to do, which is
[4:23:07] what we did. We came up with a resolution for the
[4:23:10] Garena, Greater Appalachia Ridge, Neighborhood Association, to become its own 501-C-3, and
[4:23:16] In that process, we work very intently with the Tallahassee Lenders Consortium because we had grant dollars that we were attracting to the facility, but because we were in the 501C3 at the time, we could not use them so they engaged as our fiscal agent to fund programming to fund resource at that time through the city's leadership and partnership, we were able to arrive at a lease agreement during that time that resonated and that spoke of what we wanted to do as a neighborhood association.
[4:23:43] how we would raise our capability and resources to be able to do it, and at the end of that least, which started in 2016 and expired in 2019, we would be considered as the long term owner or long term site proprietor for that facility.
[4:24:00] Now, let's take it from 2019 until now.
[4:24:03] So we were at will as a tenant and were able to get liability insurance because you can't launch it as a center without those types of coverages.
[4:24:11] And so we had those as line items they were sent forward to the City Commission as a part of our budget
[4:24:16] and how we spent quite frankly our facility dollars that we got through the city's continued $10,000 commitment because remember when the
[4:24:24] recession hit all the other money left. The only money that remained was the 10 that the city was given and they continued to give it.
[4:24:30] They also continued to work with us to address capital needs for the facility. They replaced the roof.
[4:24:35] They replaced the HVAC system, they worked with us to invest over $53,000 in site improvements that we curated grants in order to address not just the capital needs within the facility, but also the technological need because we had computers with big streams and big backs, so we didn't want big back computers in our facility, so we were able to curate through partnership the donation of 24 units in partnership with figures communication, and they gave us web based platform
[4:25:05] form computers that are posted up even now and were serviced in partnership again with Cater's,
[4:25:11] which is the Tallahassee Board of Realtors, their technology component.
[4:25:14] They came and did a complete assessment, rewiring of the complete facility.
[4:25:20] They did it at 60% of what they would do at value and we had written for that 60% in grants.
[4:25:27] Now keep in mind, we are still operating without site control as it relates to a renewed lease.
[4:25:32] We are functioning with insurance, and guess what, they said hey, we need to renew where's your lease, and we didn't have one.
[4:25:45] This was 2024, this is at the foothills of a huge, huge launch of a community technology form and partnership with Comcast, where they gave us over $75,000 the previous year, they gave us $50,000 to implement the affordable connectivity program.
[4:26:02] through the federal government and gave us 50 computers to give to residents who were in need.
[4:26:08] We used those funds to be able to do community tech ups.
[4:26:11] We partnered with local computer repair companies and we brought residents in to bring their computers.
[4:26:16] I would get them fixed or assess them for a replacement with our laptops.
[4:26:21] Lots of great stuff, but we're still at will.
[4:26:25] We would like the history of the advocacy of this organization,
[4:26:29] the history of the resident voice as it relates to this facility that we heard tonight, and we will ask this commission to consider transferring the site to the neighborhood association arena as a 501-C-3 nonprofit organization with deed restrictions that would speak to the use of the facility and perpetuity for the purposes identified within that neighborhood improvement plan.
[4:26:51] And also, we would love for y'all to continue to give us that $10,000 in partnership.
[4:26:56] But that's not the major thing.
[4:26:58] The major thing is obtaining the site control necessary to execute fully our programmatic delivery in the work of that center.
[4:27:05] Because it's important to understand also, we don't serve rich people.
[4:27:10] We serve people who, our neighborhood has a 45% poverty rate.
[4:27:15] We don't serve rich people.
[4:27:17] Our residents have that per capita income of $35,000.
[4:27:21] We don't serve rich people.
[4:27:23] But guess what, between 20,08, and now, we started out at our NIP with a 52% home ownership rate.
[4:27:33] It dipped down based on the recession to 43%, but through programmatic delivery and
[4:27:37] continued engagement, that has actually gone up and back to 53%.
[4:27:43] So the work of the neighborhood association continues and we want to make sure that we get another win tonight by getting
[4:27:51] site control access, site control of that property so that we can fully execute our programmatic delivery for our grant, our partners, and seek additional resources to continue the vision of the residents of the Appalachia Ridge Estates neighborhood.
[4:28:04] Thank you.
[4:28:06] Commissioners, are there any questions for Ms. Henry?
[4:28:13] Is there, do we have any speakers on this issue?
[4:28:16] Mr. Mayor Pro Tem, Mr. Mayor, if I could, just to make sure there's continuity
[4:28:21] in, by the way, Ms. Henry, thank you.
[4:28:23] That was very clear.
[4:28:24] I think it was a good presentation.
[4:28:26] If Mr. Teder could explain the ownership that we have today, and how possibly it transfer
[4:28:31] via our real estate policy would work, I think that might be helpful to the commission.
[4:28:35] Okay.
[4:28:37] Good afternoon, commissioners.
[4:28:41] In terms of, if you direct staff to transfer this over to the arena, it would be just a simple
[4:28:51] direction for staff to work with an agreement to do that transfer.
[4:28:57] I think during some of the briefings you had a question, have we done this somewhere before?
[4:29:02] One of the places that we have done it is the NAACP building.
[4:29:05] I think in 2001, we purchased a piece of property for about $60,000.
[4:29:11] In 2004, we approved a lease with the NAACP for an extended period of time.
[4:29:19] And then in 2020, you all directed staff to transfer the property to the NAACP with certain restrictions.
[4:29:28] And those restrictions expire in 2031.
[4:29:32] Another common question, I think maybe occurred during some of the briefings was, have we done an appraisal of the site?
[4:29:38] We have not, looking at Zalo, Zelo, we know that there are some homes for sale in the area between $150,000 and $230,000.
[4:29:48] I would say this property would be on the very low end of that because it's not a single family home.
[4:29:54] So in other words, to put it back into a single family home condition, you will need to spend a number of
[4:30:00] $1 to be able to do that. And then I think lastly, a question about the agreement and why we were doing month to month. And it really allowed the services to continue out there until a situation like this occurs. Now we're getting an approach to say, hey, in order for us to do our job and be able to take in money and to do a better job out of that facility. We need to have long term ownership. So if it's a long term lease, you direct me to do that, and I will have staff write out a long term lease.
[4:30:28] If it's to transfer the property, we can do that as well.
[4:30:31] It'd be a simple work through the terms of the contract.
[4:30:34] And I would say like the NAACP, there's reverted calls.
[4:30:38] So I would expect that if we transferred it to it, there would be reverted calls to come back to the city.
[4:30:43] If it ever exists, cease to exist, or the association cease to exist to operate this facility.
[4:30:57] Any other public comment?
[4:30:59] Yes sir, we do have speakers on the item.
[4:31:01] About a half dozen, maybe eight.
[4:31:04] The first speaker will be Leroy Peck, and the second speaker will be Gregory James.
[4:31:09] Your name and address for the record, please.
[4:31:12] Leroy Peck, public records exempt.
[4:31:15] I will certify a discommission that I live within the corporate limits of the city of
[4:31:19] Tallahasseh and have lived in this community since the fall of 1976.
[4:31:24] Good evening.
[4:31:26] Good evening.
[4:31:26] I stand before you this evening as the president of the Council of Neighborhood
[4:31:29] associations of Tallahassee Leon County, and I stand here in full support of the request
[4:31:36] coming from the greater Appalachia region states and neighborhood associates.
[4:31:41] I'll summarize some of my comments.
[4:31:44] I don't exist because this community believes that residents organized, engaged, and empowered
[4:31:52] are the best stewards of their neighborhoods.
[4:31:56] This is the philosophy behind every neighborhood association that this city has recognized,
[4:32:02] partnered with, or funded.
[4:32:06] The greater Appalachia Ridge neighborhood, the state's neighborhood association is putting a lot of work,
[4:32:11] a lot of resources.
[4:32:13] They've marstelled over $100,000 in volunteer labor, they've come up with an excess of $186,000 in grants and
[4:32:25] other funding for the past couple of years, they've advocated for the Legislature, for additional funding and support.
[4:32:34] This is the kind of thing we encourage all of our neighborhoods to do.
[4:32:38] Put in the work, seek resources outside of the city, outside of government.
[4:32:45] They put in the work.
[4:32:48] You've heard the vision.
[4:32:51] It didn't come from outside of the neighborhood, it came from the neighborhood.
[4:32:54] Good. And they're asking you to allow them to continue to do that work. And as the
[4:33:03] President of the Council of Neighborhood Association, I stand here in full support of that.
[4:33:07] Thank you.
[4:33:08] Thank you.
[4:33:09] Our next speaker, please.
[4:33:10] Next speaker is Gregory James, followed by Dodd and M. Johnson.
[4:33:16] Mr. James, then Dodd and
[4:33:18] M. Johnson?
[4:33:25] The name and address for the record, please.
[4:33:36] I am opposed to a lease for this property because this center technology and learning center
[4:33:52] predates almost everybody up there on the dice.
[4:33:59] It's been there serving that community for a couple of decades and I don't think you
[4:34:14] can compare it to the NAACP because it operates more like a community service center for
[4:34:25] for the people there.
[4:34:29] A few years ago, the 32304 census track was determined to be the
[4:34:41] lowest income census track in the state. The 32301 was determined to be second in line.
[4:34:53] The residents of this area deserve to have that property and that center transferred.
[4:35:06] I would recommend or at least introduce two options, one to transfer it, the ownership
[4:35:18] as the neighborhood is requesting the second is to treat it like a neighborhood service center and the city
[4:35:29] provide the services for that center because there is no hope that forever they will be able to patch together the
[4:35:45] grants to keep this going. And Christic is a very passionate supporter. But if
[4:35:56] Christic ever decided she was not going to do that, who would be as passionate
[4:36:05] to step up and take on all of that responsibility for that center? You're at
[4:36:12] My recommendation is either the transfer I support with a neighborhood is asking for but I think the city should take on more responsibility for the insurance and the support of that center.
[4:36:31] Thank you.
[4:36:32] Our next speaker, please, Joyce Morgan, followed by Elton Thomas.
[4:36:39] Your name and address for the record.
[4:36:41] Joyce Morgan, 926 Millert Street.
[4:36:45] As I speak to you as an association member since the 1990s, the mid 1990s.
[4:36:52] We appreciate the city's actions and the development and the fulfillment of the plans of the south side.
[4:36:59] and also the Appalachia Bridge Estates plans.
[4:37:02] We understand that our current position is due in part to a lack of continuity and
[4:37:07] knowledge as to how the center operates and continues to operate in what we need.
[4:37:15] We have residents that we serve as from Appalachia Bridge Estates, Lynn Haven, Fairview, Meridian
[4:37:22] part and council estates who are asking us what are we doing but because we don't have
[4:37:29] site control and because we can't get the insurance it would be irresponsible to
[4:37:35] open the center and have people come in and out. So we're asking to please at this point
[4:37:44] to grant our request for a transfer so that we can use the facility as it has been intended and as it has been used in the past.
[4:37:54] Thank you.
[4:37:55] Our next speaker, please.
[4:37:58] Elton Thomas and then James Morgan.
[4:38:02] I'm going to adjust for the record, please.
[4:38:04] Elton E. Thomas had this 806 Apache Street.
[4:38:10] I'm coming to speak to you as a resident of Appalachia Ridge.
[4:38:16] I've been in Appalachia Ridge for about 40 something years now.
[4:38:21] I saw this project when I was there when the project was started.
[4:38:26] The amount of enthusiasm, it was like a boom when we first got the learning center, but in the neighborhood.
[4:38:36] We had the children coming there after school.
[4:38:38] So, every day we had volunteers from the major university there.
[4:38:42] Every day, eventually we got had adults coming because we were running programs.
[4:38:47] Not just for the children, the technology, we were running programs to help adults manage our game that is skills for employment.
[4:38:58] A few years ago, it seemed like the second coming of the building.
[4:39:02] After we had lost the economy kind of put everything on the downside, 2024 looked like happy days were here again, but without control of the building, those things have struggled on the things we're trying to do, we're struggling to do that, we spent a lot of money to upgrade the building, we would ask you to give us the site control so that we can have the
[4:39:32] programs that we want, we can have the investment from third parties that we're willing to assist us.
[4:39:39] So that's why I'm here just to ask you to give us control of the building.
[4:39:43] We would appreciate that.
[4:39:44] Thank you.
[4:39:46] Our next speaker, please.
[4:39:48] Next is James Morgan, our last speaker.
[4:39:54] James Morgan, nine, two, six, bill of street.
[4:39:58] And I would like to yield my time, Mr. Henry.
[4:40:04] We don't excuse me, we don't yield the time, it's your time, we've had an opportunity to heard from her state, so go ahead and say your piece.
[4:40:17] Okay, well, I tried to yield my time to be crispy because he has the most information and it put in incredible work and we would invite ask you to consider transferring the house to the arena.
[4:40:33] Thank you.
[4:40:33] Thank you. Our next speaker, please.
[4:40:36] No further speakers on this item.
[4:40:37] Colleagues, Mayor Patim.
[4:40:39] Thank you, Mr. Mayor.
[4:40:41] I first of all want to thank Christi for the leadership that she's provided
[4:40:46] and getting us to this point.
[4:40:48] But all of the neighbors and volunteers who have worked tireless years
[4:40:53] to provide programs and services at that technology center.
[4:40:58] I've watched it succeed and grow over the years and I know that the neighborhood association
[4:41:08] and the volunteers would do a tremendous job in providing those continued services for
[4:41:16] the children and families in the Appalachia Ridge neighborhood but in the broader service
[4:41:24] service area that would be provided through that technology center and so, Mr. Mayor, I would recommend that we work out an agreement with the Greater Appalachia Reage Neighborhood Association to transfer site control of that facility to that organization.
[4:41:45] second. Second motion has been made for our team to work on the transfer agreement for site control.
[4:41:56] Seconded by Commissioner Williams Cox. Commissioner Williams Cox for discussion.
[4:42:01] Thank you and I want to echo what Commissioner Richardson has said because I've watched it.
[4:42:05] Visited a time or two and I think it's been sorely missed in the neighborhood and I think it is
[4:42:13] high time for you all to be able to do what you need to do to continue to grow the children
[4:42:21] and the adults who come there for educational purposes, job training, all of those kinds
[4:42:27] of things because we know that AI is here, there are opportunities for you to be able
[4:42:32] to do those kinds of things that help those students.
[4:42:35] Some of you know that my husband is in the hospital at Shans and I'm heading there tonight
[4:42:39] after work.
[4:42:40] after this, but last night his nurse was telling us about her son who is working at
[4:42:49] Google and he makes $30,000 a month, $30,000 a month. Can you imagine how life-changing
[4:42:58] that would be for our children and our adults who could get that kind of education and
[4:43:04] So I see that, I see that greatness can happen right here in this facility.
[4:43:09] So I wholeheartedly support the transfer so that you all can control that destiny.
[4:43:15] But I also agree with Dottie and Min Johnson that Christie and Elton and all of you,
[4:43:25] you have a just a bundle of energy and passion.
[4:43:29] And I know you got a bench, your folks coming behind you.
[4:43:32] But we want to make sure that it continues to be that way.
[4:43:36] So I would ask for a freely amendment that we do provide some type of revertile clause.
[4:43:44] So that if something should happen, you know, 100 years from now, whatever.
[4:43:47] Christine, you know, is gone and she's 100, but she's doing something else.
[4:43:53] That and others that it still remain, it still can come back to the city as a property.
[4:44:02] But I wholeheartedly support this transfer.
[4:44:04] I've seen it at work.
[4:44:05] I've seen the people doing the work.
[4:44:07] They're very integral individuals and go getters.
[4:44:11] I also ask that our grant staff also work with them to help them identify and
[4:44:17] be able to apply for grants to allow them to be able to fund some of the innovative things that
[4:44:23] I know will come out of this, out of this, this project.
[4:44:27] Mayor Pertham, thank you.
[4:44:29] I was my intent that that revertor clause be in the contract, but if we need to do that as an amendment to my motion,
[4:44:39] I would certainly accept that as a friendly amendment.
[4:44:43] Great, as amended.
[4:44:44] Okay, yes.
[4:44:45] I supported as well.
[4:44:46] It was a great idea.
[4:44:47] Yeah.
[4:44:47] For the comment, Commissioner Mallow.
[4:44:49] Thank you, Mr. Mayor.
[4:44:50] Thank you for all the speakers today.
[4:44:52] As we know, neighborhoods are only as strong as the people who care about them and are willing to show up for them.
[4:44:56] And I think it's been a great facility.
[4:45:00] Over the years, I recognize the need for a 2.0. So to speak, and happy to support the motion could have also gone the other way. There is a liability transfer. The city currently takes care of the roof and the HVAC and the plumbing and all the things that would get transferred to private ownership. What's important to me is we continue to keep the public purpose, the public facility, which I believe is what the reverter cop clause speaks to. So keep up the great work. Look forward to what it becomes and let us know if we can be helpful in the process.
[4:45:29] Thank you.
[4:45:30] You might need a few pieces, you think?
[4:45:32] We can't talk about that here.
[4:45:36] Alicia Porter.
[4:45:37] Thank you, Mr. Mayor.
[4:45:39] And I want to thank y'all for what you've been doing.
[4:45:45] It sounds like amazing work.
[4:45:47] I haven't had the chance to tour the facility or meet with you, but it's really, I read
[4:45:54] through the proposal and it's really incredible work.
[4:45:58] I'm ready to all support the motion to see what comes back to us.
[4:46:03] I do have to say, though, that it, I would like when we have these conversations, I don't think the default should be to transfer or sell public assets.
[4:46:15] If site control and a long-term lease would satisfy the concerns, that is my preference to be the starting point.
[4:46:27] So, I'll support the motion, but in general, we've gone through this before with public assets, and I do believe that this is unique and different, which is why I'll support the motion to see what comes back to us.
[4:46:40] So, I want to understand what is coming back to us.
[4:46:43] Will there be, when we transfer assets, I mean, I want to first of all know what we mean when we say transfer, because we use that term to mean a sale the last time we use that term.
[4:46:56] I think the position of the motion is we're going to transfer a title, they're going to get the building and we're not selling it.
[4:47:03] Yes. That's the intent.
[4:47:06] That's what's coming back. All those in favor of the motion on the table?
[4:47:10] Signify by saying aye. Aye.
[4:47:12] All those opposed.
[4:47:13] Passes five, oh unanimously.
[4:47:16] All right, we're on item number 12.01.
[4:47:19] One, Mr. Major.
[4:47:21] Thank you, sir.
[4:47:23] This topic came, was discussed a year last meeting.
[4:47:26] You asked for additional information to come back regarding license plate reader technology.
[4:47:35] Chief Revel and his staff, including Assistant Chief Celesky, Deputy Chief Mahoney,
[4:47:41] and Director Loer here to answer any questions you have on that.
[4:47:44] you have a full comprehensive agenda item in your material tonight that covers a lot of ground
[4:47:51] it covers ground beyond the license plate reader technology and I want to point out so you know
[4:47:57] whatever direction we take tonight that you provide tonight that we have two companies two brands
[4:48:03] of fixed license plate reader cameras one being flocked which is very well known the other one
[4:48:11] is a Motorola brand. They have, they look different, but they, for all intents and purposes,
[4:48:16] do the same thing. So we're using two different brands of license plate reader technology.
[4:48:21] In your agenda material, though, it covers also public safety cameras. You'll recall lots
[4:48:26] of discussion about that. We utilize those in certain areas of our community. That information
[4:48:31] is available to our real-time crime center, as well as the license plate reader data. We
[4:48:37] We have traffic cameras at all of our intersections, 300 plus intersections in our community.
[4:48:42] That information is used by our traffic management system, but also available to our real-time
[4:48:47] crime center.
[4:48:49] As you also know, there's been an effort to incorporate private cameras, like ring cameras,
[4:48:54] into that.
[4:48:55] So there's been, over the last, about six years, there's been this confluence of video information
[4:49:02] that really has propped up our real-time crime center
[4:49:05] that we partner with the sheriff, FSU, FAMU, FDLE,
[4:49:09] to support the use of that,
[4:49:12] take that emerging technology and crime fighting
[4:49:14] and discovery and locating of people.
[4:49:17] The experts that are here, they're here to answer questions.
[4:49:21] They all have a different role in this, expertise
[4:49:24] about the data, the data handling, the access to the data,
[4:49:28] the policies that we use.
[4:49:30] I think in the agenda item you would have read, that TPD, not unusual, by the way, is ahead of the game because you've heard a lot of discussion around the country and the state about the governance and the use of this information, the access of the information and TPD has a very robust policy, I think is general water 56 and how their officers and others can access this, how they can be used and so that's in your agenda material as well.
[4:49:59] And then there's some anecdotal success stories that are in there where crimes have been
[4:50:07] solved, people have been located.
[4:50:09] What we know is it's become the license plate reader technology and access has become fundamental
[4:50:16] in all of our violent crimes, all of our homicide investigations, whether it ultimately is used
[4:50:23] or not, it is accessed immediately.
[4:50:27] It's become a tool, a standard tool,
[4:50:29] and it's helped us solve lots of crimes.
[4:50:31] You heard from the chief at the last meeting
[4:50:33] that we want to make sure that we're using things properly
[4:50:38] that the public trusts what we're doing
[4:50:40] that we've got proper rules governing that
[4:50:43] and that we manage ourselves, that we audit
[4:50:45] and govern ourselves.
[4:50:48] And so that's happened at TBD,
[4:50:50] the inquiries have to be noted, they're reviewed,
[4:50:54] they're validated and make sure that nobody's misusing this.
[4:50:57] We've heard stories from around the country
[4:50:59] where this kind of access has been misused.
[4:51:02] And I'm happy to say that's not the case here.
[4:51:05] And that's in my estimation,
[4:51:08] kudos to TBD for having good rules
[4:51:10] and good training for the use of it.
[4:51:13] But commissioners, we want to provide you
[4:51:15] this information as a follow-up to the discussion you had.
[4:51:18] We believe it's an important community discussion and there's been a lot of activity even since your last meeting
[4:51:25] The state of Florida has issued an order to remove
[4:51:29] I believe it might be limited to flock. There's a little confusion in other words flocks
[4:51:34] Not the only brand of license plate reader
[4:51:37] cameras
[4:51:38] But they've issued an order to remove those we do have some of our cameras in the state right away
[4:51:45] I think it's in order of six or so of the total 150-ish that we have.
[4:51:51] And so that activity is underway.
[4:51:54] And then the sheriff, Sheriff McNeil locally in Leon County has ordered the suspension of the use of their cameras.
[4:52:02] I'm not sure what brands they have.
[4:52:04] In this, the suspension essentially entails two things, removing the access and security of the users.
[4:52:12] So, think about the ability to log into your computer.
[4:52:15] So, that's easily suspended for all users, and then stopping the video and recording
[4:52:21] to those cameras.
[4:52:22] And so, that stops any data collection, that stops any access to the use of those licensed
[4:52:28] plate readers.
[4:52:29] And clearly, we work closely with the sheriff.
[4:52:32] We work closely with FDLE and our university partners because of that compliance of information
[4:52:38] and data and intelligence in the real time crime center.
[4:52:43] So we wanted to provide you this information.
[4:52:45] Again, you have a full thorough report in your agenda.
[4:52:48] We wanted to be available for questions
[4:52:50] and then look forward to the direction of the city commission.
[4:52:54] Thank you, sir.
[4:52:55] Thank you.
[4:52:56] Before I get the public comment, just put in clarification
[4:52:59] because if I was a bad man,
[4:53:00] I'd be willing to bet that we won't suspend this tonight.
[4:53:03] Because of the action that's been taking place,
[4:53:05] since the last meeting that we had,
[4:53:06] but the gutter is suspended in state roads and right ways and then you've got the sheriff's
[4:53:11] action as well and all of our community partners seem to not be adopting this. Are you looking
[4:53:16] for our direction to suspend this or why haven't we just taken the action to suspend it?
[4:53:21] Mr. Mayor, I think I can answer it, but I'm going to ask Director Load to help me with this.
[4:53:28] The value, you can come forward Jason, if you don't mind. The value and the use of the
[4:53:34] the license plate reader technology.
[4:53:36] Again, not limited to flock, it goes beyond flock,
[4:53:39] has been the ability to cross jurisdictional information access
[4:53:44] and location which extends far beyond the state of Florida.
[4:53:48] Some of the information you saw in your agenda packet.
[4:53:51] And so while valuable, the more information,
[4:53:54] the connections you have valuable,
[4:53:56] that in itself doesn't limit the value of the cameras,
[4:54:01] even if it was only within the city of Tallahassee.
[4:54:04] We do have the ability, it's configurable, we have the ability to say the information can only be
[4:54:10] had by the TPD officers, controlled by TPD officers, and not used beyond our boundaries, that's still valuable.
[4:54:18] And so we want to make sure that we're taking direction from the City Commission.
[4:54:24] That's consistent with what the public would desire, but also sharing how we're using it, how it's being accessed,
[4:54:30] to ask how it integrates beyond the city,
[4:54:34] the county, the state, and elsewhere.
[4:54:36] So, I'll probably answer the question,
[4:54:38] but Director Low, is there anything else I should add to that?
[4:54:42] You did a great job.
[4:54:43] No, thank you.
[4:54:45] Hey, look, it's a completely different day
[4:54:47] since we met two weeks ago.
[4:54:49] There's been a lot of action with our community partners.
[4:54:51] First of all, I want to congratulate all of our agencies
[4:54:57] locally, especially TPD,
[4:54:58] that we have not had one recorded case of abuse of what we're seeing going on across the
[4:55:03] country. Nonetheless, this is a big issue out in society. And we're all hearing about
[4:55:08] it right and left. And so again, if I was a bet man, we're going to do exactly what the
[4:55:13] sheriff did and we're going to suspend all action on the flat cameras or those that we use
[4:55:18] that are similar to it. But I just want to make sure that we clearly identify, first of all,
[4:55:24] We all did a great job with putting together the policies and procedures on how to operate.
[4:55:29] I'm very proud that we have an agency that did not have a single complaint of abuse period.
[4:55:34] Period.
[4:55:35] But at the same time, I think we need to suspend just because of the fact of our community
[4:55:40] partners and where we are in society until we get more answers and more comfortable.
[4:55:44] That's where I am before we move forward because I know we've got a lot of people here that
[4:55:48] want to speak on this issue.
[4:55:49] And so, we have any other questions before we get the public comment?
[4:55:54] Yeah, the question that I have, Mayor, is it, is this simply the suspension which I would agree with,
[4:56:03] limited to the license plate readers or would it apply to all of the cameras that we have available to them?
[4:56:14] Specifically, what was the action that would take about the sheriff's office?
[4:56:17] Yes, sir. Thank you. That's a really good question, sir. And I appreciate that. I think if it's consistent with what the sheriff did, it would be the suspension of our fixed LPR cameras, which includes block and motor oil.
[4:56:32] Motor oil has a different brand name, but it's the motor oil product, which is approximately 150 LPR cameras.
[4:56:41] And Mr. Mayor, the reason I asked that question in particular, I'm sure most of us are familiar
[4:56:48] with the fact that in the bond community, at one point, we had an exorbit crime rate
[4:56:55] in that neighborhood.
[4:56:57] We put cameras in the neighborhood and saw immediately a 30% reduction in crime.
[4:57:06] In my own neighborhood, which is on the south side of town, we have had some issues with crime and my neighbors and I agreed to have the camera surveillance for our neighborhood.
[4:57:22] And so I just want to make sure that where we have, I just want clarification as to whether or not we're going to suspend all of that surveillance.
[4:57:35] or if it will be limited to the license plate read.
[4:57:40] Mr. Mayor, Mr. Mayor Pro Tem, it would be limited if you're acting consistent with the sheriff's actions.
[4:57:47] Yes, right.
[4:57:48] And other similar actions, it would be limited to the license plate reader cameras, the public safety cameras you reference.
[4:57:55] Yes, they exist, they're available to the real-time crime center, that would, we would presume those would continue
[4:58:03] I need to operate, okay.
[4:58:06] Mr. Mayor.
[4:58:06] Before we go ahead, yes, Commissioner Williams-Cox.
[4:58:09] I just wanted to weigh in as well.
[4:58:13] I'm thankful again for that clarification.
[4:58:15] We're not talking about all cameras, we're only talking about flock and motorola.
[4:58:19] There has been a flurry of activity.
[4:58:22] I have spoken to the chief, I've spoken to the sheriff, I've spoken to our local delegation, the legislators.
[4:58:29] I've spoken to former police officers, I've spoken to community members.
[4:58:32] I've even consulted chat GBT, and I'm telling you that I think we're going to land in the same place that we need to suspend these technology.
[4:58:50] Because we want to be able to provide public safety, but we also want to respect the civil liberties and privacy of individuals.
[4:59:00] But being a technologist, I'm looking over here at my man,
[4:59:04] Harold Lane, and he's sitting there listening because you've got your finger on the switch.
[4:59:09] As soon as the decision is made, it's shut off.
[4:59:14] So thank you all for working together to be ready to do what this commission says to do.
[4:59:20] Thank you, Mr. Manifold.
[4:59:21] Sure, I want to get straight into public comment.
[4:59:24] We have 20 speakers, we have an hour of public comment on this item.
[4:59:27] So let's jump right in, Mr. Clerk.
[4:59:29] Thank you Mayor, first speaker on the item, Tim Staddle Mueller, followed by David Derby.
[4:59:44] Thank you for hearing me.
[4:59:47] Name an address for the record please.
[4:59:49] Tim Staddle Mueller, 9-11-Poward Trail.
[4:59:51] Thank you for putting the item back on the agenda.
[4:59:55] And thank you for considering suspension.
[4:59:57] I want to be very clear about the fact that suspension is not the same-
[5:00:00] The thing is removal, and frankly, if we're suspending use, if we're suspending use, they need to be covered as well, because we don't own these, and as long as those lenses are exposed and those solar panels are working, those cameras are still sending information. I want to be clear about that, my
[5:00:20] understanding. We are no closer to the revelation who exactly made the backroom deal that brought flock cameras to our community.
[5:00:33] As the adage goes,
[5:00:34] If you've done nothing wrong, you've got nothing to hide.
[5:00:40] Here's my question.
[5:00:44] Why is this information not public record?
[5:00:47] To my understanding.
[5:00:49] And if we're so much safer now, you should be standing behind your decision proudly.
[5:00:56] And it's telling that to my understanding, the people who made this decision are not.
[5:01:01] Not.
[5:01:06] I'm finding it difficult to strike a measured and composed tone when you're out here installing
[5:01:14] what amounts to police surveillance state, police state infrastructure.
[5:01:20] I want to be very clear about the fact that I understand that these reduce crime.
[5:01:24] That's a positive thing.
[5:01:25] What I'm asking you to consider is how this information and that is being collected, this infrastructure
[5:01:33] When normalized, as background infrastructure essentially provides a potential authoritarian shift,
[5:01:42] authoritarian power grab, with a turnkey tool to jail and neutralize, shall we say, opposition.
[5:01:55] This is not barfetched at all.
[5:02:00] And I want to be clear about the fact that I find the fact, I find it irresponsible
[5:02:05] that this decision was made behind the backs of the entire community, and some of the
[5:02:11] comments that have heard made less so today but two weeks ago gave me the impression
[5:02:17] that some of the people on this commission do not have a full understanding of the
[5:02:22] implication of what this technology represents.
[5:02:26] There is a petition of moratorium that the folks who I have been working with have been
[5:02:31] working on. It is a non-vendor-specific moratorium to be placed in perpetuity.
[5:02:37] The language is currently being reviewed by a legislative policy expert.
[5:02:41] Please follow our lead on this and show respect for the privacy rights of our community.
[5:02:47] Thank you.
[5:02:47] You have my time.
[5:02:49] Next speaker, please.
[5:02:51] Next speaker is David Derby.
[5:02:53] David Derby followed by Zachary Bell.
[5:02:57] Damon, just for the record, please.
[5:03:01] David Derby, the Labor Street in May remanner, 3-2-3-0-4.
[5:03:07] That's a famous zip code intelligence, yes.
[5:03:12] I'm very much against the cameras to be get go.
[5:03:16] I understand as one of my officers explained to me it's a tool in their tool.
[5:03:19] But the tool is too easily abused, it's too easily metamorphed into other things.
[5:03:28] Not only do our police department have access, but I can guarantee you somebody can hack
[5:03:33] in there and record everything that they've got going on.
[5:03:36] With AI, it's prime to hunt people, not your citizens.
[5:03:44] They have live streaming, not just picture taken, but live streaming.
[5:03:48] They identify vehicles, not just ice and baits, and then there's technology where they
[5:03:54] go into your vehicle and pick up all your electronics in your vehicle at the end of
[5:03:57] life who's in there.
[5:03:59] I think this is a little bit of overreach.
[5:04:02] It's turning us into a surveillance state.
[5:04:06] China started this stuff off, I don't know if y'all remember, I think it was a home guard
[5:04:09] so he started hunting, and it made them really good at hunting the people and suppressing
[5:04:15] just like my colleague here doesn't
[5:04:17] elaborate, this can be used nefariously,
[5:04:20] really, really bad.
[5:04:23] Insurance companies also use this to raise
[5:04:25] rates and to buy co-riches, along with
[5:04:29] your credit score, vehicle profiles,
[5:04:33] occupants, what's the need for it?
[5:04:37] It's a tool that's great to solve crime,
[5:04:39] but what are we doing all this information
[5:04:41] gathering on honest citizens. I mean, I'm really, really disappointed that we got this
[5:04:47] where I also like to know, like he asked, how did we get here? How was this grant and
[5:04:54] our chief just decided to go put these cameras out or did he come and tell you all we're
[5:04:58] going to do this? And did you don't know to the extent of this surveillance when this came
[5:05:04] out? 150 cameras, that's an awful lot of surveillance. Why do I need to know? Why do TPD need to
[5:05:10] I know where I'm going all around town and how I get home.
[5:05:13] It's another business.
[5:05:15] Now, this supposed to be a free state,
[5:05:17] but it's turning into this surveillance state really quick.
[5:05:21] How about false arrest?
[5:05:23] How do you make that up to somebody?
[5:05:25] How do you undo a cavity search?
[5:05:28] Did you know anybody answered that one from I don't think you can?
[5:05:31] I'm glad to hear that there's no abuse,
[5:05:34] but how's there been any false arrest in telehasty?
[5:05:37] You're at 30 seconds remaining.
[5:05:38] I would like to see an accountability report every year on how this is going, how it's been impacted,
[5:05:44] what the good was, and if there's any bad, it needs to be highlighted.
[5:05:50] You're losing the respect of your constituents. We didn't have an opportunity to say we wanted
[5:05:56] this or not. So I would appreciate y'all understanding that the people have opinions, and we elect you guys,
[5:06:03] but somewhere in this it was lost. Thank you for your minutes.
[5:06:07] Next speaker, please.
[5:06:09] Next speaker, Zachary Bell.
[5:06:14] Don't see Zachary Bell, so Marsha Rule.
[5:06:21] Your name and address for the record, please.
[5:06:23] Marsha Rule, Maple Drive, here in Tallahassee.
[5:06:26] I'd like to start out by saying, you know, I'm here to speak against the cameras.
[5:06:31] Let's call them what they really are.
[5:06:33] They're not license plate readers.
[5:06:35] They capture everything that's in view.
[5:06:37] And that's just today's technology, which can be updated without any of your knowledge.
[5:06:43] One of the largest invasions of privacy of American citizens ever, and we didn't consent to it.
[5:06:50] There's been some discussion about abuses.
[5:06:53] I think it's abusive to have them out there in the first place, but even so,
[5:06:58] they're over, according to TPDs, portal over 1,300 organizations that can access
[5:07:04] Tallahassee information now.
[5:07:06] And of course, that can be abused, but that's not really the worst of it.
[5:07:10] that can build any number, flock in other providers, can build any number of data
[5:07:16] resale products, they can aggregate it with data from other brokers, and they're
[5:07:23] selling our data, they're selling our lives.
[5:07:26] A foreign government can track and buy, but you just get a subscription and purchase
[5:07:31] the data, and of course, the data can always be hacked and stolen and sold, and I'm
[5:07:38] I'm sure some of you have gotten data breach notices, maybe from your bank or from TNH most
[5:07:46] recently.
[5:07:47] And those are only the ones you know about.
[5:07:50] I guarantee you that there have been others and you can find out in the dark web.
[5:07:55] But when you allow flock cameras and other camera readers into our community, you're allowing
[5:08:03] and encouraging the creation of data, data that can be sold, data that can be misused,
[5:08:09] data that invades our privacy.
[5:08:13] Thank you.
[5:08:13] Our next speaker.
[5:08:15] Sean Thomas is the next speaker, then Darryl Alfred.
[5:08:27] You may have an address for the record, please.
[5:08:29] Sean Thomas, 2113, join our drive, Tallahassee, Florida.
[5:08:33] Good evening, Mayor and commissioners.
[5:08:35] I urge you to end Tallahassee's block camera program and stop treating mass vehicle surveillance as a normal part of life in our city.
[5:08:42] CPD operates 155 automated license plate reader cameras, 80-flot cameras, and 75 vigilant cameras.
[5:08:51] That's what the 155 consists of, someone getting paid $317,000 should know this.
[5:08:57] Supporters call this a public safety tool, but public safety cannot cost that, cannot come at the cost of turning every resident into a data point.
[5:09:05] Tracked when they go to work, attend church, visit a doctor, go to a protest, or see family and friends.
[5:09:13] The privacy risk are real.
[5:09:15] These systems can connect local vehicle data to a broader law enforcement network and move data as deeply personal.
[5:09:22] And movement data is deeply personal, sorry.
[5:09:25] Once a surveillance network exists, the question is not only how it is used today, the question is how it can be expanded,
[5:09:32] stated, shared, or misused tomorrow.
[5:09:35] The state of Florida has already recognized that these cameras raise serious concerns.
[5:09:40] On August 31st, F.Revoked permits for license plate readers and state highway
[5:09:45] right-of-ways ordered agencies to remove them within 30 days and said it would stop
[5:09:51] approving new installation in those areas.
[5:09:54] Soon after, Sheriff Walt McNeil also followed suit.
[5:09:57] Kelly asked he should not respond by looking for ways to preserve surveillance on every remaining city street.
[5:10:03] It should lead by protecting civil liberties.
[5:10:06] If police believe a vehicle is connected to a serious crime, they have investigative tools.
[5:10:11] Witnesses, warrants, detectives, traditional camera footage, and targeted searches.
[5:10:17] We do not need a permanent city-wide system that collects information on everyone's first and ask question later.
[5:10:25] I ask this commission to remove the cameras and in the city participation in the flock network,
[5:10:31] prevent future expansion and require deletion of data that is not tied to an act of criminal investigation.
[5:10:37] We can support effective policing without accepting indiscriminate surveillance.
[5:10:42] I ask he should choose safety with privacy, not safety at the expense of privacy.
[5:10:47] Commissioners, Mayor, I recommend taking a look at the quote-unquote God's eye view and take a look at
[5:10:53] what the capabilities are when we talk about surveillance.
[5:10:56] Thank you.
[5:10:57] Next speaker please.
[5:10:59] Your offer is our next speaker, then Colton Taylor.
[5:11:10] Your name is just for the record please.
[5:11:12] Good evening, again, I'm Dar Alfred of 814 West Darb Street.
[5:11:17] I'm standing here tonight in opposition to flock, ALPRs,
[5:11:20] and master valence at large.
[5:11:22] This technology got ahead of the public fast.
[5:11:25] Flock cameras were deployed before most people
[5:11:28] or even many legislators had any real awareness
[5:11:30] of what these systems could become, how much information they could collect, or how easily
[5:11:35] that information could be shared. For that reason alone, automated license plate readers deserve
[5:11:40] a moratorium, no different than the pause the community has called on large data centers.
[5:11:45] This week, a former open AI researcher just resigned from Anthropic warned that even
[5:11:52] warned that even the people building these technologies believe they're moving dangerously fast.
[5:11:56] And yes, these cameras can help solve crimes, of course they can.
[5:12:01] If we put a GPS tracker on every car in town, that probably helps solve crime, too.
[5:12:06] We don't do that because public safety is not the only value of a free society it's supposed
[5:12:11] to protect.
[5:12:12] We have a fourth amendment for a reason, and surveillance technology now being sold for
[5:12:16] civilian policing has already been deployed in Gaza.
[5:12:20] I don't want Tallahassee becoming another testing ground for technology moving from war zones
[5:12:24] in a civilian life.
[5:12:26] There is a practical problem here too.
[5:12:29] Why keep spending public money building surveillance infrastructure whose constitutional and
[5:12:33] regulatory future is increasingly uncertain?
[5:12:36] Every one of these cameras represents public money, labor, materials, installation and maintenance.
[5:12:41] If these systems are ultimately found to go too far, we have wasted all of this time.
[5:12:47] Yet flock and surveillance technology out of telehasty and put our resources into things that actually prevent crime.
[5:12:52] young people, mental health services, housing stability,
[5:12:56] community activities, job creation, and business ownership,
[5:13:00] build infrastructure that gives people lives worth living,
[5:13:03] and you prevent the violence set before it happens.
[5:13:06] Give neighbors pathways to ownership and stake,
[5:13:08] and you'll get stronger neighborhoods.
[5:13:10] A camera can tell you where something has gone wrong
[5:13:13] after it's already happened.
[5:13:15] It can't stop desperation and pain before it comes violence,
[5:13:18] or a crime created through necessity or boredom.
[5:13:21] We have limited money, limited labor, and limited attention.
[5:13:24] We should stop spending all three teaching government how to watch us better and actually try to serve the public.
[5:13:30] Let's build a city that has less reason to watch us in the first place.
[5:13:34] Put a moratorium on these systems, get them out of Tallahassee because we have far larger problems to solve.
[5:13:39] Thanks.
[5:13:41] The next speaker is William Colton-Cyler and then Simone Hickman.
[5:13:46] Great, name and address for the record, please.
[5:13:49] Appreciate it, my name's Colton Taylor. I live at 631 East Call Street.
[5:13:54] So, communities across the country have seen our rights to be violated on numerous fronts
[5:13:57] and these flood cameras, especially concerning because not only do they're infringed upon our rights,
[5:14:02] the technology can be used to track our every move. They say it's just for public safety,
[5:14:06] but we've seen the terrible consequences of how they've been exploited.
[5:14:09] Mass surveillance begins suppression and oppression.
[5:14:13] So, my question is, is do we want to live in a city under mass surveillance?
[5:14:16] My answer is no, and yours should be too.
[5:14:18] Thanks.
[5:14:19] I'd like to speak, or please.
[5:14:20] Simone Hickman.
[5:14:23] And then the next speaker will be Jonathan Gardner.
[5:14:28] Name and address for the record, please.
[5:14:31] That's Simone Hickman, 101, 54 Rose Road.
[5:14:35] I live in a more rural area and every single road from my house is covered by
[5:14:41] floor cameras.
[5:14:42] My family and I can't even buy gas or groceries without the system
[5:14:48] and recording our vehicles.
[5:14:49] So I was very glad to hear the governor announce
[5:14:52] that the cameras would be coming down.
[5:14:54] I'm grateful to Sheriff Walt McNeil for doing the same.
[5:15:00] Especially grateful to Jefferson County Sheriff Mack McNeil for going above and beyond, because when I drove to Monticello this weekend, the cameras recovered with black trash bags. Interesting. The cameras from what I understand can't actually be removed because they are still the property of the flock corporation, but they covered them with trash bags to reassure drivers that they weren't being tracked. That's how you build public trust with the community.
[5:15:28] It's not with the transparency portal written by Flock that honestly has very little useful information.
[5:15:37] Waakala County is also getting rid of their cameras.
[5:15:40] I'm not sure why Tallahassee Police Department is holding out on this issue.
[5:15:46] The city of Berkeley, California has been in the news lately because a memo was leaked where city attorneys
[5:15:53] counties discussed how the city may be liable in court for issues related to flock.
[5:16:00] An independent study in Roseville, California, found that 71% of all license plates read by flock were read inaccurately.
[5:16:08] 71% failure rate.
[5:16:11] So not only are these cameras a privacy nightmare, they are a liability nightmare too.
[5:16:16] And as some people are going to be hurt by these things, and they are probably going to sue.
[5:16:21] to. Block is now facing a class action lawsuit in Georgia, and let me just read you the charges
[5:16:29] they are facing. Count one, invasion of privacy. Count two, negligence. Count three, negligent
[5:16:38] design. Count four, failure to warn. Count five, emotional distress. The lawsuit also reveals
[5:16:45] that the cameras can actually photograph the occupants of vehicles.
[5:16:50] Block's newest model called the Condor is specifically designed to track human beings.
[5:16:56] It uses AI to identify people down to their tattoos and can even read their phone screens
[5:17:02] over their shoulder.
[5:17:04] You're at 30 seconds remaining.
[5:17:05] So that's what's coming next most likely.
[5:17:08] I think we're hitting an inflection point on surveillance in our society and you guys are
[5:17:14] really the front line defenders of our privacy. So thank you for listening.
[5:17:19] Next speaker please. Jonathan Gardner and Matt Berk will then follow.
[5:17:28] Your name and address for the record please.
[5:17:31] Hi there. Jonathan Gardner, 3-2-3-09-368-7. I'm in drive. I do have some handouts. I'm a handout person.
[5:17:37] I don't know who I should hand this to.
[5:17:38] to the officer right there.
[5:17:44] All right.
[5:17:44] So that's a long set of documents, but I have prepared for the county and for you guys
[5:17:49] a personal report on some of this, and it's more than just flock cameras.
[5:17:54] We're talking about surveillance tools in general.
[5:17:56] There is a market that is being built for civilian domestic espionage that you can't put another
[5:18:03] name on it.
[5:18:05] And with AI tools coming up on the last set of pages of that handout, there's an article
[5:18:10] by wired of flocks own, what they have a AI chatbot that takes in all of this data from
[5:18:17] your license plate readers, from your drone cameras, from social media pieces, and puts
[5:18:24] it all together and creates you a list of suspects based on what kind of information you're
[5:18:28] looking for.
[5:18:29] I would definitely recommend looking into that, I think, is the most striking and forefront
[5:18:34] portion of what this looks like.
[5:18:36] On the local level, I want to thank you guys for considering suspension.
[5:18:42] I think that we need to move towards something bigger than that.
[5:18:45] A previous speaker mentioned looking back and saying, how was this set up?
[5:18:50] How was this done without real public input or public knowledge?
[5:18:55] I believe that these were set up last summer.
[5:18:57] I mean, that's when the real explosion of them were, and then it didn't get to you guys until December,
[5:19:02] and there was a conversation in January.
[5:19:03] So, I mean, six months of time where this is a big deal that now that everybody knows.
[5:19:09] So, I would like to backwards look at that.
[5:19:13] And then a forward look at a previous commission meeting put forward what Austin, Texas did and set forth a policy, a local policy, focusing on AI surveillance technologies, and what the commission locally can set forth on policies for review before they're enacted.
[5:19:31] to do privacy impact assessments on what these technologies are doing and if they're effective.
[5:19:38] And really none of those questions have been asked at this commission until this became a big public outrage
[5:19:44] over this year, maybe past several months.
[5:19:47] It looks very bad in terms of public trust when you have a year of this kind of level of surveillance
[5:19:55] is being enacted with nobody knowing and not having any public input if we want this.
[5:20:00] Sure, we can argue that they're great for solving crimes, as somebody previously
[5:20:05] said, GPS readers would be great for that, too.
[5:20:08] There's a reason that the Supreme Court made that a warrants warrantable search.
[5:20:14] And what flock is in all these other people are really selling as a database,
[5:20:18] that the police can access.
[5:20:19] It's not the cameras.
[5:20:20] I mean, the cameras are a big deal, but they've been around for a while.
[5:20:22] Now, it's the data base, it's the profiling, it's being able to track people.
[5:20:27] And that is what I think most people are really upset about.
[5:20:30] It's not the cameras that can help solve crimes, it is the database that profiles people.
[5:20:35] Thank you for considering suspension, let's keep this conversation going, thanks.
[5:20:38] Next, please.
[5:20:39] Matt Burke.
[5:20:42] Matt Burke.
[5:20:46] At Burke three times, moving to PJ Perez.
[5:20:55] Name an address for the record, please.
[5:20:57] Good evening, PJ Perez 3, 2, 3, 0, 1, all right.
[5:21:07] So opposition to master valence has bipartisan support nationwide, right?
[5:21:13] Block is the poster child, but it's not the only threat.
[5:21:16] Our community has been expressing concern over these things for the better part of a year
[5:21:20] as we've been talking about.
[5:21:22] This invasive technology has been woven into our lives and we've taken it as the reality
[5:21:26] that we're just forced to accept.
[5:21:28] But it's time for this commission to finally listen to the voices of the people.
[5:21:33] Over the past year, this commission has given away the hospital, given away capital city
[5:21:37] country club, slashed on agended public speakers to 30 minutes, and now hot off the presses,
[5:21:44] some city manager contract hijinks to add to a pretty rough resume over the course of
[5:21:48] a year.
[5:21:51] It's time this commission, the government closest to the people, began to vote like it, right?
[5:21:56] As a high school social sciences teacher, I press upon my students every day to get active
[5:22:00] in their community, especially in politics here at the local level.
[5:22:04] It's an essential project that we're all working on here together.
[5:22:08] Here, we can actually touch the government.
[5:22:11] It's not federal, it's not state, it's not disconnect, it's not abstract.
[5:22:15] It's here.
[5:22:16] So I went in this room, people coming around, sharing each other's thoughts, signing
[5:22:21] petitions, gathering information, we're living amongst each other, we need to be listening
[5:22:25] to each other.
[5:22:27] We need to be able to show the next generation of their voice matters, show them there's still hope in this city and in public service.
[5:22:34] Instead of pulling up the rear on this issue, I mean, we were behind the governor on this guy's, the governor, behind him, strange.
[5:22:43] Nothing changed in two weeks, Mr. Mayor.
[5:22:46] Y'all just weren't responsive.
[5:22:48] We had to wait for it to become a safe issue politically for us to act on this thing.
[5:22:53] This is not the way that our capital city needs to be acting, right?
[5:22:56] We need to be nimble and responsive.
[5:22:58] We're all right here.
[5:22:59] We see each other all in flush and blood.
[5:23:01] We can't wait for things to feel safe or be politically expedient.
[5:23:05] We need to do it's responsive to the community, to the people.
[5:23:11] So I assure you, we need to be voting to cancel this contract with flock and make it clear
[5:23:17] that no other vendor's cameras should be able to fill that void.
[5:23:20] Thank you.
[5:23:20] The
[5:23:23] next speaker is Abel Laylor-Schkeer,
[5:23:35] and then the next speaker after this will be De La Lapeare.
[5:23:40] Your name and address for the record, please.
[5:23:42] Good evening, commissioners.
[5:23:43] My name is De La Scheeer.
[5:23:44] In 1951 North Meridian Road, I'm here representing the ACLU of Florida.
[5:23:48] Permission is to protect, to promote, sorry, to protect defend,
[5:23:52] promote and expand the constitutional rights and civil liberties of all people in this country.
[5:23:57] We all deserve to be safe in our communities.
[5:24:00] But surveillance does not make us safe, and Americans don't surrender our privacy rights
[5:24:05] when we drive to work, drop the kids off at school or go to church.
[5:24:09] Automatic license plate reader, ALPR companies like Flock Safety, Cell cameras that record
[5:24:13] and digitize license plate numbers and run them against hot lists.
[5:24:17] But that data can be stored and shared, and by doing so, it allows people to be tracked
[5:24:21] for as long as that data is retained.
[5:24:23] By the way, the TPD policy that you all have says that that data is retained for
[5:24:27] at least 30 days, even though flock recently,
[5:24:29] change their default retention settings to seven days.
[5:24:32] So this can reveal very intimate and private details of a person's life.
[5:24:36] Every time we drive through a doctor's office, a place of worship or a friend's home,
[5:24:40] we leave a trail and the issue isn't just one snapshot.
[5:24:43] It's that enough snapshots can create a map of your life.
[5:24:46] They can record where we were and when we were there.
[5:24:49] And that can reveal our religious practices, our medical visits,
[5:24:53] political activities, personal relationships, our daily routines.
[5:24:56] This inescapable network of surveillance gives police around the country new power to track
[5:25:01] our movements without a warrant, by the way, putting our freedom to move freely in danger.
[5:25:06] This technology can be very easily abused.
[5:25:09] In Kansas, police used them to pursue a man who wrote a newspaper op-ed that was critical
[5:25:13] of the department.
[5:25:14] Here in Florida, in Polk County, an officer was recently suspended after allegedly accessing
[5:25:18] the FLOG database 717 times over nearly two years to track his estranged wife.
[5:25:24] but we are not powerless. Communities across the country are rejecting these creepy
[5:25:28] cameras and winning. Cities and police departments are cancelling their contracts with
[5:25:33] flock in response to public pressure and Tallahassee must join that list.
[5:25:36] Everyday Americans are coming together across the political spectrum to reject this
[5:25:41] mass surveillance. We don't have to hold the same political beliefs to agree that
[5:25:45] it's wrong for the government to track everyone's movements just in case they
[5:25:49] may someday be suspected of something.
[5:25:51] And let's be clear, while FLOC provides the most widely used ALPRs, they're not the
[5:25:56] only company trying to make a buck off of spying off of us.
[5:25:59] Axon, Vigilant Solutions, Genetic, Plate Smart, Perceptics, those are just a few of the other
[5:26:05] major companies selling ALPRs to police, private companies, and others.
[5:26:09] It doesn't matter which company has its creepy cameras in our neighborhood, they all have
[5:26:13] the same problem, a lack of transparency and oversight into how they collect, store, and
[5:26:18] share our data and how to hold public and private actors accountable if they abuse it.
[5:26:22] You're at 30 seconds. Thank you. We must protect our communities from these invasive cameras.
[5:26:27] If the government suspects us of wrongdoing, they also need to get a warrant. Everyone in America
[5:26:32] has the right to move freely without being surveilled. No flock, no ALPRs, no exceptions, no excuses,
[5:26:40] yet these creepy cameras out of our communities now and tell these ALPR companies to get the flock
[5:26:45] out of Tallahassee.
[5:26:49] The next speaker, please.
[5:26:51] Delilah Pierre is next, followed by Robert Lee.
[5:26:55] Your name and address for the record, please.
[5:26:57] My name is Delilah Pierre.
[5:26:58] My address is exempt.
[5:26:59] I'm a member of the Tallahassee Alliance against racist and political repression.
[5:27:03] And I want to say that police chief Lawrence Revel, sitting right over there.
[5:27:07] And the Tallahassee Police Department are the last people we want possible to have access
[5:27:11] to flock cameras because the Tallahassee Police Department has again and again shown that
[5:27:15] they have had history of using surveillance technology to harass and spy on black and brown
[5:27:19] people in our city, and TBD has always responded negatively when asked to take accountability for
[5:27:25] their actions. So, TBD says that flock will be expanded to areas, at least it says in your
[5:27:30] agenda item, that flock will be expanded to areas that have historically experienced higher
[5:27:35] levels of criminality. That's a nice way for you to say black people. TBD has been caught using
[5:27:41] Stingray Technology in 2015, despite on thousands of innocent bystanders, and all these
[5:27:47] investigation TPD made, they made no mention of using Stingray Technology in any of their
[5:27:52] court filings to the judicial authorities.
[5:27:55] Um, TBD also has a history of using this technology for things like the 287G agreement, the
[5:28:02] Thai Civilized Department, although not having to, decide to sign on to the 287G agreement
[5:28:06] and work with them.
[5:28:07] Let's talk more about what TPD has done, because TPD also was responsible for the conviction
[5:28:12] of Calvin Riley, a black man falsely convicted of his DUI, when there was direct evidence
[5:28:17] that he was being set up by officer Kirsten Oliver, who literally, who took an alcohol
[5:28:23] bottle from his car, opened it, and then put it back in so she had the pretext to arrest
[5:28:27] him.
[5:28:28] So I don't understand why you would think that an organization that barks against transparency,
[5:28:35] That organization that fought for the removal of a citizen's police review board that openly celebrated working with war criminal
[5:28:42] Eddie Gallagher, who posed with a corpse and was convicted for it, that an organization where our police chief, Lawrence Revel,
[5:28:50] went to an anti-LGBDQ-plus conference with a toxic police department shirt, and then y'all, city commissioners,
[5:29:05] time, again, when we ask for justice for victims of police brutality, for immigrants
[5:29:08] and for people who are affected by your actions, you go through an internal investigation process
[5:29:14] that finds it, that TBD is non-trouble.
[5:29:17] What kind of system is this?
[5:29:19] Where we already spend one-third of our budget on policing, and you already have the real-time
[5:29:24] crime center and a thousand other ways to surveil people, to criminalize people, to attain
[5:29:31] people.
[5:29:31] As an organizer fighting for black liberation, I know these fought cameras are a damage to black
[5:29:36] communities in Tallahassee, to brown communities in Tallahassee. Our police department has shown
[5:29:40] time and time again that they don't care about an account of villainity. And I, Williams,
[5:29:44] Cox, your time is coming up. Your seat is not secure. So you better be thoughtful when you make that
[5:29:48] vote today. Thank you. Our next speaker please. Robert Lee. And the next will be Lily Anderson
[5:29:56] and messing. Your name and address for the record, please.
[5:30:00] My name is Robert Lee. Tell us Florida 3203. So I'm going to read off a few things from some recent news articles. Brandon Upchurch was just driving his Dodge Ram through Toledo when an AI camera changes life forever. The Flock safety surveillance system mistreated a seven as a two on his license plate, triggering a stolen vehicle alert that ended up with a police canine tearing into his arm and dreadlocks. What should have been a routine drive became a nightmare of John Gunn's
[5:30:29] dog bites, hospital visits, and jail time. All because a computer couldn't tell the difference between two numbers.
[5:30:36] On October 4th, 2025, Joaquin Dino attended his granddaughter's birthday party in Sanford, Florida.
[5:30:42] At the end of the night, he headed to his daughter's house. Eight miles down in her state floor, a speeding car swirled across multiple lanes over a hundred miles an hour.
[5:30:49] It swiped Dino's motorcycle, then hit a Ford focus, causing a pile up before driving away. Dino died at the scene, as they had a county official in his wife.
[5:30:59] Witnesses said the speeding car was a dodged derango. Police found that a
[5:31:03] flat camera, a type of automated license plate reader, had spotted a derango nearby
[5:31:07] at the time. They arrested the owner, 23-year-old Lindsay Isaacs, but Isaacs
[5:31:11] wasn't involved in the crash, and officers had enough information at the time to
[5:31:14] exclude her as a suspect. Yet, she still spent two weeks in jail and faced the
[5:31:19] threat of life behind bars for months, because police didn't use basic
[5:31:22] scrutiny, and, you know, like just regular police work, to be sure their
[5:31:25] cameras didn't implicate an innocent person.
[5:31:29] In 2020, Aurora Colorado notoriously held a black family,
[5:31:32] including small children, faced down at gunpoint.
[5:31:35] After an ALPR, misidentify their SUV as a stolen motorcycle
[5:31:40] from another state.
[5:31:41] So these cameras can't tell the difference between a car
[5:31:43] and a motorcycle or between two different state license
[5:31:45] plates.
[5:31:48] These cameras are not compatible with a free society.
[5:31:52] I understand the desire for safety,
[5:31:54] But creating a panopticon that surveils us at all times and all our of our movements is not safety.
[5:32:02] What creates safety is providing community resources, giving people the help that they need so that they're not desperate to figure out how to survive any way that they can.
[5:32:12] These cameras are security theater at best.
[5:32:15] And obviously we've heard quite a bit about all the misuse of the cameras, officers all
[5:32:21] over the country, stalking their ex-girlfriends, stalking their ex-wives, stalking random
[5:32:26] women that they met who didn't go on a date with them.
[5:32:29] Really weird stuff.
[5:32:31] But even beyond the misuse, the stories I said before-
[5:32:35] 30 seconds remaining.
[5:32:36] Just the simple existence of them is a problem.
[5:32:39] They make mistakes.
[5:32:41] This is not something that we should be accepting of.
[5:32:45] We shouldn't be surveilled at all times.
[5:32:47] We should be able to go about our movements.
[5:32:49] If we haven't done anything wrong, we shouldn't have to be worried about are we constantly being
[5:32:52] filmed by the city, trying to track our movements everywhere that we go.
[5:32:57] So please end this contract.
[5:32:59] I mean, don't be in conflict with the state and the county and countless other cities across
[5:33:04] Florida and the country.
[5:33:05] There are three minutes.
[5:33:05] Suspending their contracts.
[5:33:07] Thank you.
[5:33:07] My next speaker, please.
[5:33:09] Next speaker is Lily Anderson Messick, then Stanley Sims.
[5:33:13] Your name and address for the record, please.
[5:33:14] Lily Anderson Messick, I live on West 6th Avenue,
[5:33:19] tell us the 323.
[5:33:21] And hi, I was, thank you guys for Stanley listening to us.
[5:33:24] I appreciate it.
[5:33:25] I was born here until I see a team age.
[5:33:27] And grew up here.
[5:33:29] Your mayor daily, your mom was one of my grade school teachers
[5:33:33] here in town.
[5:33:34] And I'm just really frightened by these cameras that are going that are all over town.
[5:33:40] I'm also a victim of sexual assault and I'm every time I leave my house now and I drive past these cameras at every street light.
[5:33:49] I don't know how many men are tracking my whereabouts.
[5:33:54] It's really concerning to me.
[5:33:56] This is a stockers and a domestic abusers dream to have access to this type of information.
[5:34:05] And they are using it that way.
[5:34:06] We're seeing cases in Florida and across the nation of these cameras being used to stock and abuse women.
[5:34:13] I'm also a botanist in a college and I spend a lot of time in, you know, secluded areas and I drove out to
[5:34:20] that logical national force this week passed the toss the airport, and I passed so many cameras.
[5:34:28] My entire route was tracked out there, and it made me realize I'm in these secluded areas,
[5:34:34] which I have historically always felt very safe and because I know how to handle myself in nature.
[5:34:39] But to know that I don't know how many strange men know where I am at all times and know that I'm in a secluded area,
[5:34:47] That's scary to me. That's really frightening. It's also a roll-out of mass surveillance across the nation that is happening, and that has been mentioned. This is data that is being stolen from us and being sold.
[5:35:01] So we don't know who. It's just very scary. It's a tool that has too many, it's just too right for abuse. And we have rights. I believe I have a right to privacy in public.
[5:35:14] You know, I would like to have a reasonable or right to privacy and not know that my data is being sold.
[5:35:20] I was really, I wasn't able to attend the last mission meeting that I was really dismayed at what happened at that commission meeting.
[5:35:26] I think it's really embarrassing that DeSantis came out and is against Fox before our own commissioners.
[5:35:34] That's shocking to me.
[5:35:36] I never thought that would happen.
[5:35:38] And I also was really shocked and dismayed at chief rebels attitude in that meeting.
[5:35:44] and how he treated Commissioner Porter.
[5:35:46] I thought that was pretty interesting.
[5:35:46] You have 30 seconds remaining.
[5:35:48] So I just wanted to express my concern.
[5:35:50] Thank you for listening, have a good night.
[5:35:53] I'd like to speak as please.
[5:35:55] Stanley Sims and then Lisa Sears.
[5:35:58] My name is Stanley Sims.
[5:35:59] I'm still at 1320 Barack Obama way.
[5:36:04] First of all, let me say this,
[5:36:06] because I don't get a chance to say,
[5:36:08] matter of fact, I've never had the opportunity to say this.
[5:36:10] I want to thank the governor.
[5:36:17] I want to thank him, because if he can come to common sense on this, everyone should.
[5:36:27] But in my heart, I believe that if the governor would not have done what him done, we would
[5:36:31] not be here today.
[5:36:36] The second thing I have a problem with, we keep using the word suspend,
[5:36:44] so that's for a time
[5:36:45] period.
[5:36:46] So does that mean that this can come back?
[5:36:51] I also have heard some distortion.
[5:36:53] These flock them up cameras do not do facial recognition.
[5:37:03] They read license plates.
[5:37:08] Also, another distortion.
[5:37:09] I want to clear it with you on good frame, Mr. Curtis Richardson.
[5:37:15] Those cameras that we put up in neighborhoods are nothing compared to these flock cameras.
[5:37:25] I never said there were.
[5:37:26] I didn't say you did. I didn't say you did. Okay. They operate totally different.
[5:37:37] This
[5:37:37] flock camera can track me from place to place. If I go to win Dixie, it could catch me. If I go to
[5:37:46] publics, it could catch me. The cameras are stationary. So I know I'm in a survey area and those people
[5:37:57] So in that area wanting that camera, so I'm cool with that.
[5:38:02] Here's the other problem I have.
[5:38:08] You keep bragging about transparency, Mayor.
[5:38:16] And what's the hell is going on right here?
[5:38:20] Nobody, nobody explained to us.
[5:38:26] This is different, also chief, our good friend chief.
[5:38:30] 30 seconds.
[5:38:31] Then pulling somebody's driving license.
[5:38:34] It is not the same.
[5:38:37] This is an invasion that is not really justified or been explained to the public.
[5:38:47] You have a right to be upset.
[5:38:50] You can't say this one more time.
[5:38:52] I want to thank the governor for making this move.
[5:38:57] I'm going home.
[5:38:59] Next speaker please.
[5:39:01] Lisa Sears is our next speaker followed by Thomas Spears.
[5:39:05] your
[5:39:09] name and address for the record, please.
[5:39:12] My name is Lisa Sears, zip code 3303.
[5:39:17] First I want to thank the commissioners and the mayor for taking the stance that you
[5:39:22] are on this situation.
[5:39:26] My major reasons for opposition are for the amendment concerns, police misuse, immigration data
[5:39:32] sharing, mass immigration data sharing and creeping mass surveillance.
[5:39:37] and lack of transparency.
[5:39:40] Vlog cameras build national databases,
[5:39:42] perhaps even international.
[5:39:45] Tracking the daily moves of just ordinary citizens
[5:39:50] without a warrant, which is actually
[5:39:53] on constitutional.
[5:39:57] If you all insist on keeping the vlog cameras,
[5:40:02] then let's use them on our public citizens
[5:40:07] on our public servants, put them on the driveways, put them in their offices to ensure transparency and integrity.
[5:40:16] We have a pedo, predatory administration, and possibly the majority of the leadership in this world.
[5:40:26] And we already seem to be implementing the Nazi playbook.
[5:40:30] So this is just another thing to weaponize against we the people.
[5:40:34] As a two simple example, the woman was tracked in two different states and several
[5:40:41] states to criminally charge her for having an abortion.
[5:40:45] There was another older lady who was tracked in several states.
[5:40:49] She would go get pain medication at a dispensary that was not legal in her own state.
[5:40:55] Yet not one of these flock cameras have helped track down one not one predator in the
[5:41:07] and race alliance in action, which helps humanity,
[5:41:11] our human families that are in crisis,
[5:41:13] which of course, immigrant families are high
[5:41:16] on that list right now.
[5:41:19] I have seen our constitution being walked all over,
[5:41:22] our rights being eroded, the American dream going up and smoke,
[5:41:26] that our immigrant ancestors believed in,
[5:41:29] and were very grateful for.
[5:41:32] I see families being torn apart
[5:41:34] and people being imprisoned without due process moved from prison to prison for profit.
[5:41:39] The misspelling of names, whether it's on purpose or poorly trained or incompetence by these poorly trained agents.
[5:41:50] Lord have mercy, I have so much to say.
[5:41:54] Well,
[5:41:57] as a mom and a grandmother and volunteer helping fellow humans,
[5:42:02] I am disappointed and baffled and even angry that you want to keep flock cameras in our city.
[5:42:08] Normally, I wouldn't say this, however, please follow this answer's example and take them down.
[5:42:15] The next speaker is Thomas Spears, followed by Brandon McIntyre.
[5:42:21] Yes,
[5:42:27] may I may adjust for the record, please?
[5:42:28] Thomas Spears in 3, 2, 3, 0, 3.
[5:42:31] It's very interesting that the conservative majority of the board are suddenly supporting suspending the flock cameras.
[5:42:37] They mentioned the actions of community partners.
[5:42:40] Why is the City Commission following and not leading?
[5:42:44] And why is that the city is only moving after those community?
[5:42:46] Partners move.
[5:42:48] The community was out here at the last meeting.
[5:42:51] Why not listen to us?
[5:42:54] This issue was brought to a vote already, and it was declined by the conservative majority three to two.
[5:43:00] I'm thinking a lot about three to two votes, telling the golf course with unmarked graves of enslaved black people on it,
[5:43:06] and selling it for a song was done three to two,
[5:43:09] selling the city's hospital without a full appraisal,
[5:43:12] to the school with a billion dollar endowment,
[5:43:16] done three to two, dozens of other votes,
[5:43:19] all done at the behest of the conservative majority
[5:43:21] of this commission three to two,
[5:43:22] and then includes to stay on the contract with Flock,
[5:43:25] to continue to expand surveillance of all people of Tallahassee,
[5:43:28] despite the significant issues
[5:43:29] that that kind of surveillance has in general,
[5:43:31] despite the dozens of reports of police around the country,
[5:43:33] abuse these systems to track their ex-girlfriends and ex-wives, and despite the ACLU, saying
[5:43:39] that these surveillance programs do violate our constitutional right to privacy.
[5:43:44] The mayor keeps saying he doesn't want things in the diets to be political.
[5:43:49] When he or the conservative majority votes whether it's on this board or as members of Blueprint,
[5:43:54] not to support affordable housing, is that not political?
[5:43:58] When poverty is a policy choice and poverty is the source of crime,
[5:44:02] why does the mayor and the conservative majority support
[5:44:05] flock cameras to empower the badge and the gun over supporting the people?
[5:44:10] The truth of the matter is, his statements of not wanting things to be political
[5:44:13] are a plain, insultingly obvious, farce.
[5:44:17] This is the City Commission, your five elected officials.
[5:44:19] Of course, it's political.
[5:44:20] It can't be anything else.
[5:44:22] The Tallahassee Alliance against racist and political repression
[5:44:25] stands with the people of Tallahassee against these flock cameras and demands
[5:44:28] that these surveillance systems be under the control of the people of Tallahassee,
[5:44:32] not just the police. We demand that off-floor cameras be removed from the city.
[5:44:36] We demand that every instance of any department pulling in from a camera
[5:44:40] into how it has to be listed in a public database accessible without an explicit pull request.
[5:44:45] And we demand that when TPD misuses the system, they are held accountable by us, the people, all powers to the people.
[5:44:52] I
[5:44:54] heard next speaker please.
[5:44:55] branded Mac and Tire, and then Yuri Gus.
[5:45:00] Sure.
[5:45:02] Feel about 5.11. Sneeze, Florida. My name is Brandon McIntyre. Now, what do I need to start now? First of four
[5:45:09] months, this is what I would like to say. The God that I serve is not Muslim. God that I serve is not a Christian. God that I serve is not part of
[5:45:20] no denomination. His love, his unity, his every fruit of every spirit. So what we get the vision from? Why we've been
[5:45:31] so divided, they want to watch one another when we're all full of seeing guilt, but what
[5:45:37] I also want to say is this right here, as your future governor for Florida, when Brennan
[5:45:42] brought attention to these flat cameras, when Global Worldwide known, because I used
[5:45:46] that on my platform, I served you guys a constitution to know about these actual things.
[5:45:51] You don't believe it? Go back and plug the record requested.
[5:45:55] So what I'm telling you all is this right here, right? But all the police officers, y'all
[5:45:59] I say we don't have no crime yet in here.
[5:46:01] I'll be using the flock cameras.
[5:46:04] But once my team come here to the panhandler,
[5:46:06] we oughta been in Georgia.
[5:46:07] Once we come to the panhandler,
[5:46:08] it's a lot going to happen, okay?
[5:46:11] If you haven't picked your tags yet,
[5:46:13] go to haveibentflock.com
[5:46:15] and get your plumber records requests as well.
[5:46:17] But listen, but they say it's the third part of sight.
[5:46:19] It's not accurate, it's wrong.
[5:46:22] Listen, this is what I'm here to say,
[5:46:23] because most of you officers wanna go back
[5:46:26] and read that information and try to change the purpose of your investigation, it's not
[5:46:31] going to work.
[5:46:32] It's not going to work because the system has a mechanism that actually tracks the people
[5:46:39] and also put in the system where the officer put in a certain investigation, it automatically
[5:46:45] saves it.
[5:46:46] So if they go back and try to read that, the information gets what happens.
[5:46:49] It also saves that as well.
[5:46:51] So covering your tracks is not going to help you.
[5:46:54] Cover your ass. Excuse my French. It's not going to help you because I've been tracked just for doing the right thing
[5:47:00] Two plus years for no reason
[5:47:02] Then because I ran for president of the United States. That's why you want to track me and investigate me
[5:47:06] But guess what we coming to the panhandle and a lot of you going to go to jail not saying you guys
[5:47:11] But listen, I'm telling you something to as well a lot of you saw
[5:47:15] NDAs no disclosure of what grievance
[5:47:18] That's going to hit the fan too
[5:47:20] I had a executive branch that allowed you guys to come in with this unlawful policy.
[5:47:26] It was unconstitutional, but we have a governor, right, that wanted to get rid of it, but I thought he was a lawyer.
[5:47:32] This isn't going to pass his desk.
[5:47:35] He signed off on it, too.
[5:47:37] He knows what it's right to do for the better good of Florida, you think so?
[5:47:42] Guess what, he knew his time was coming to him as well, okay?
[5:47:47] So guess what, a lot of people.
[5:47:49] I'm going to go to jail behind this block.
[5:47:52] Let's go Brandon on the ground, I'll fight for you guys.
[5:47:57] Here you got, Sharp, and this is the last speaker I have at this time.
[5:48:01] Hello, Regatio, 3-2-3-1, the one that Tallahassee, Florida.
[5:48:06] I am not going to seek to try and enumerate all of the issues that have been laid up before me.
[5:48:12] What I am going to ask you guys to do is to take action, because as it has been pointed out previously,
[5:48:18] a suspension is not covering this.
[5:48:21] And furthermore, when it comes to flock as well as the Motorola, these are not the only cameras that are gathering data.
[5:48:28] This is my issue. My issue is that it's not just gathering data, it's gathering data, and then being put in the hands of private companies.
[5:48:35] And what I'm asking for you is my City Commission is for you to not only monitor the contracts with flock as well as whatever the Motorola company is, but also look at the body cam footage.
[5:48:47] That's a service. My question to you all, and I don't know the answer, this is probably a question to our attorney,
[5:48:53] is when we pay for a service from that, is there something that prevents, as well as any other cameras,
[5:49:00] any third party, non-regulated age or private entities from using that information, that data?
[5:49:09] I don't know. I don't, I think that that is something that the City Commission should take up.
[5:49:14] And that is, I think, the utmost importance for me as a citizen, the idea that we need
[5:49:20] to have rights to the data that is collected on us.
[5:49:25] And that those, that data is also limited and restricted by the same laws that are law
[5:49:34] enforcement are required to follow when they serve a search and seizure on private property.
[5:49:38] I, the reality is that, like, I, I, you know, I give an address.
[5:49:44] I used to live it on what was formerly 909 Central Street for several years.
[5:49:50] While I was there, you know, a new tenant moved in next door and they were selling drugs.
[5:49:55] I know this because they would try to sell drugs to people who were coming to visit me.
[5:49:59] That was reported by my landlord at multiple times.
[5:50:02] It got to the point where they had their power turned off and my landlord called the cops or called the TPD on that.
[5:50:08] As a result, they went over and they said, yeah, they're running a generator.
[5:50:11] I know it's loud.
[5:50:12] You got to call the code enforcement and a week later, the place burned down.
[5:50:17] You know, who was there in five minutes, the fire service.
[5:50:23] And ultimately, I personally, I feel like there was a missed opportunity that it doesn't
[5:50:28] feel like putting cameras were going to do that because ultimately, that house was rated
[5:50:32] during that time.
[5:50:33] It was done by the Sheriff's Department.
[5:50:35] They arrested each remaining.
[5:50:37] And during that time, it seems like the adage came true of if you want to call a response,
[5:50:44] call the sheriff to pardon not TBD, that ultimately the signs were put out, people were
[5:50:50] warned, they were said, hey, there's some bad stuff going on here.
[5:50:53] It was very clear.
[5:50:54] And ultimately, when there were police, there's such bad relations that the people in the
[5:51:00] neighborhood started yelling and screaming at the cops, and there was conflict just by
[5:51:03] passers-by, and TPD needs to work on fixing that as well as directing new cameras to watch them.
[5:51:09] Thank you.
[5:51:10] All right, next speaker, please.
[5:51:12] I have no other speakers on the side of Mayor.
[5:51:14] All right, Mr. Williams-Cox.
[5:51:16] Thank you, Mr. Mayor, and thank you all for your conversations.
[5:51:20] I said earlier, I've done a lot of research and homework as well, and so at this point,
[5:51:26] I am ready to move forward with making the motion that we suspend the use of flock and motor roller cameras.
[5:51:34] in the city of Tallahassee to follow suit with what our partner to share is already doing.
[5:51:41] In the last meeting, I mentioned that I didn't like the hodgepodge of us.
[5:51:46] Some doing this and some doing that, but to provide some consistency in what we're doing that we move to suspend the use of flock cameras as well as Motorola.
[5:51:59] All right, motion in second, motion made by Commissioner Williams-Cock, seconded by the mayor approved Tim for the comment.
[5:52:10] Mr. Mallow.
[5:52:11] Thank you, Mr. Mayor.
[5:52:13] I also drove to St. George Island this weekend and probably passed 25 bagged cameras.
[5:52:21] It was great to see them bagged, but it was insane to see how many were in my drive between Tallahassee through a very rural area.
[5:52:29] community. I mean, you talk about master valence. This is master valence.
[5:52:35] I do want to, you know, we just took the item up two weeks ago.
[5:52:39] We didn't have the votes to get it passed. Sometimes leadership is going first.
[5:52:44] We brought the item up last December. I've been discussing it as a city commission, but I just
[5:52:50] do everybody who came out and spoke today, who's been advocating on this issue. This decision is
[5:52:55] only changing because of you.
[5:52:58] If you weren't advocating for this, you would not see a change on this commission today, and I know the majority of this commission tends to reject what the public is asking for time after time again, but you showed that the power of advocacy still works, and if you continue to show up, you can't see real change for your impacts.
[5:53:19] So, thank you, thank you for that.
[5:53:21] I do have a couple of questions or a question, Mr. Manager.
[5:53:26] The budget today allocated $150,000 for ALPRs and the capital improvement plan.
[5:53:33] How will this decision impact that allocation?
[5:53:37] Mr. Major,
[5:53:41] I'm not sure that level of detail, but we clearly would not be spending additional money on ALPRs.
[5:53:49] It's entirely possible we could reprogram that for the technology, but if the commission moves forward with the decision that seems to be at hand, we would not spend money on a LPR's.
[5:54:03] Okay, I think-
[5:54:04] Mr. Matlow.
[5:54:05] Thank you.
[5:54:05] And is it still the city's position and the chief's position that he should remain?
[5:54:12] Mr. Mayor.
[5:54:13] Mr. Mayor.
[5:54:15] I think the TPD has been very clear in terms of the value of the information.
[5:54:21] information, but at the same time you heard the words from the chief last meeting and there
[5:54:28] was a request for this to come back, so there was quite a bit of effort put into the
[5:54:33] agenda item, and you see no recommendation, we're seeking commission direction.
[5:54:38] DVD and myself and others, we believe this to be a policy issue, this update on LPRs and
[5:54:46] Cameras and other technology has been provided over the years, a dozen times.
[5:54:52] There's been investment added and so TBD and law enforcement does believe in technology.
[5:54:59] But we believe this rises to the level of public policy, which is provided by the commission.
[5:55:07] So you don't see a recommendation other than seeking the direction of the commission.
[5:55:14] I know there was a lot of discussion at all last meeting about the right to privacy in public, but we really didn't ever really get to get into the issue of this being completely different.
[5:55:25] It doesn't give you the right to go back in time and trace the whereabouts of somebody for the past 30 days.
[5:55:31] That has nothing to do with what's clearly visible in public.
[5:55:35] But going forward, I've heard the speakers concerned, I've heard the motion, and I do think whether you can let me know if these are friendly amendments or a substitute motion is required, but I think we need to be aggressive about this.
[5:55:46] I think that means black trash bags covering them by tomorrow within 24 hours.
[5:55:56] I think that means issuing the directive to move them from all city right away within 30 days as consistent with the governor's orders on state right away or the city will remove them if they're not removed by the owner within 30 days.
[5:56:08] And I think we need a policy to come back to the City Commission that requires explicit City Commission approval on any future surveillance technology moving forward.
[5:56:23] So that is a friendly amendment, Commissioner Williams-Cox that we can support, or do you want to have a separate substitute motion?
[5:56:32] I don't know why I'm not in favor of riding around town, seeing black bags all over the city of
[5:56:41] Tallahassee when here's us hey everybody calm down just please right I mean that that's just
[5:56:49] that's just where I am but I believe now knowing how technology works when we say suspend that means
[5:56:56] it's turned off it's not transmitting it's not doing any of that is
[5:57:04] the second
[5:57:05] I don't warn him before I clear chambers for the rest of the evening, okay?
[5:57:09] Thank you.
[5:57:12] So, why don't we do this?
[5:57:14] Why don't we react on the motion that I have on the table?
[5:57:16] The Commissioner Matlow wants to do a separate motion, and he can do that.
[5:57:21] But he will be making a substitute motion that would be taken up first.
[5:57:25] And then if it fails, then we will take up the original motion on the table.
[5:57:31] Okay, so you do not want to accept it as a friendly amendment.
[5:57:34] Okay, so Commissioner Mallow, back to you.
[5:57:37] Thank you, Mr. Mayor.
[5:57:38] I guess substitute motion that we bagged the cameras in the city within 24 hours.
[5:57:45] It gives 30 days for them to be removed or have the city remove them and bring back a city commission policy at the September 23rd meeting that requires explicit city commission approval for any new surveillance technology.
[5:57:58] I'll second that, I have two questions.
[5:58:01] Motion in a second, Commissioner Porter.
[5:58:04] Thank you, and I'm not sure exactly who this question is for, but I think Commissioner Williams-Cox, for the original motion, I want to make sure that I understand.
[5:58:15] So is it all ALPR cameras?
[5:58:19] Lock and motor roll.
[5:58:21] Does that encompass all the ALPR cameras that we have?
[5:58:26] That's the entirety. There's a 150-ish, a little 150, fixed AOPR cameras made up of flock in the Motorola brand.
[5:58:38] Okay.
[5:58:39] And they look different form factors. They all don't look the same, but that would be the entirety.
[5:58:45] Okay. I would ask if you would accept the friendly amendment to extend it to all AOPR cameras, because I think that what we don't want is to just,
[5:58:53] not that I'm assuming this would happen, but I think everyone would like the reassurance
[5:58:58] that we're not going to just sign a contract with another company, with another provider.
[5:59:06] My question is, will the original amendment, can it be amended to just say that we are
[5:59:12] suspending all ALPR cameras?
[5:59:15] We're on a substitute motion right now, not the original motion.
[5:59:19] I understand that.
[5:59:20] I just want to make sure that both, Commissioner Matlow did not speak to that.
[5:59:24] So I want to make sure what's included both in his motion and in the original motion.
[5:59:30] Yes, my motion encompasses all the PIRs.
[5:59:34] Thank you.
[5:59:35] And then I also wanted to ask the city manager, this commission took action on June 10th to ask
[5:59:43] that an item come back with information about the Austin City Council Trust Act that they
[5:59:49] passed that had a framework for how to deal with these kinds of surveillance tools.
[5:59:58] Is that item still coming?
[6:00:00] Back to us. Yeah, I believe that topic, which has been consistent would be a retreat item topic. I would expect that you can have that item back. Okay. The intent was not that it come back to us at a retreat. The intent, the direction was that it just come back to us at a regular meeting. So, can it come back? I mean, doing the motion should. I'll amend my motion to include that information at the September 23. Okay. I just want to make sure that we're not really in the commission. Okay.
[6:00:29] All right, thank you.
[6:00:30] That was motion.
[6:00:33] Oh.
[6:00:34] Mr. Mayor, ma'am.
[6:00:36] Sure.
[6:00:36] I just just declared the way we would immediately disable these is by turning the systems
[6:00:44] off and turning the cameras off.
[6:00:47] So the access to the system, the access to the data and the cameras to just just be clear
[6:00:55] that's how we do.
[6:00:56] I haven't heard that action.
[6:00:58] Commissioner Williams-Cock said that,
[6:00:59] but that's how we would do that very rapidly.
[6:01:02] That would be how we would disable that technology.
[6:01:06] So it couldn't be accessed by us or anybody else.
[6:01:08] And is that the way the sheriff is doing it?
[6:01:12] Yes.
[6:01:13] Is that the way that the governor's state is doing it?
[6:01:18] Yes.
[6:01:19] Yeah, that's the most, that's the fastest way
[6:01:21] to stop this technology.
[6:01:23] That sounds good.
[6:01:23] All right, so we got a substantive motion on the table.
[6:01:25] the Commissioner Matlow has made that has been amended with friendly suggestions from Commissioner Porter and seconded by Commissioner Porter.
[6:01:32] I am respectfully going to support the original motion on the table and not support the substitute motion.
[6:01:38] All those in favor, single file by saying aye.
[6:01:40] Aye.
[6:01:41] All those opposed.
[6:01:42] Aye.
[6:01:42] And it fails 3-2 with the Mayor Mayor Pro Tem and Commissioner Williams Cox in dissent with Commissioner Matlow and Commissioner Porter in favor.
[6:01:49] We are on the original motion made by Commissioner Williams Cox, seconded by the Mayor Pro Tem, all those in favor.
[6:01:56] Thank you, Mr. Mayor.
[6:01:57] Just for clarification on the motion, suspension until which point and who has the authority
[6:02:03] to remove the suspension?
[6:02:05] I could not hear you, sorry.
[6:02:07] Suspension until when and who has the authority to then remove the suspension and put them back into play.
[6:02:12] Sure, it is my understanding that the action that is being proposed is the exact same action taken by the Leon County Sheriff's Office, correct?
[6:02:19] So, the question is, and I don't have the answer off top of my head, but it's a suspension and perpetuity chief, can you come and help clarify Sheriff's action so that as a community we're moving forward together with the suspension that he has put in place?
[6:02:40] Yes, for thank you, Mayor, for the opportunity.
[6:02:43] The suspension that the sheriff has done and that I believe is where we're getting the direction here tonight would be until such time as, and again, if I might take a little bit just to have extra time.
[6:02:57] We just spent two days with the Florida police chiefs discussing this exact issue.
[6:03:03] And there is a model statement coming, there's a model policy coming.
[6:03:07] And that information will be then used with the Florida Sheriff's Association.
[6:03:11] And our legislators to bring forward legislation which will, if in fact,
[6:03:17] this moves forward, direct how that has moved forward, how it's used, how it's protected, anything, if it in fact goes forward at all.
[6:03:24] So what the sheriff has done and what I assume you would be in agreement with doing would be to suspend this until such time is those legislative efforts and
[6:03:34] Those efforts of the FPCA and the FSA come and set that national standard that we
[6:03:41] talked about two weeks ago that we believe we're already very close to.
[6:03:46] But it would formalize all that.
[6:03:48] It would put it in formal policy with IECP, International Association of Chiefs of Police,
[6:03:53] with the Florida Sheriff's Association, Florida Police Chiefs Association, and create that
[6:03:57] national standard that everybody is looking forward to direct if and when this technology
[6:04:03] can be used.
[6:04:04] So, you would be suspending it until such time as those guidelines were in place.
[6:04:08] Understood.
[6:04:09] In the difference between the Sheriff's Office and this legislative body, Sheriff
[6:04:12] being a constitutional officer that can make decision on his own.
[6:04:15] If we as a body decide to put in suspension, we cannot reinstate that program unless
[6:04:21] that item comes back before this commission with the positive vote unless directed
[6:04:25] otherwise.
[6:04:26] So, the answer to your question, Commissioner Matlow, if we take action tonight to suspend
[6:04:30] And in order to reinstate, excuse me, it would have to take an affirmative vote of a future commission,
[6:04:39] because I don't see this coming back the next month and a half before the election.
[6:04:43] Mr. Matlow, thanks, Chief.
[6:04:45] Thank you, Japhia, and thank you for that clarification.
[6:04:49] I can't believe I'm going to say this, but I believe I'm more in line with what the governor ordered,
[6:04:53] which was, must be removed by the permitting within 30 days of this date, if such removal has not occurred within the 30 day period.
[6:05:02] The department will remove any remaining devices subject to this memorandum.
[6:05:07] The governor has ordered them to come down, at least on state, state highways.
[6:05:11] And so we are, I don't know where that puts us politically in relationship to the governor, but
[6:05:16] it seems like the governor has a lot more common sense about the threat of the surveillance technology.
[6:05:21] But look, incremental progress is progress.
[6:05:24] I'll support the motion on the table, but I don't think it's a total victory for people who don't want to see this come back in a year and go through this same process again.
[6:05:33] Thank you, Mr. Mayor.
[6:05:35] Commissioner Porter, with the question.
[6:05:37] Thank you, Mr. Mayor.
[6:05:38] And I intend to support the motion as well.
[6:05:40] I would like to have the question answered, how did we get here since this did not come to a vote for the commission.
[6:05:49] Mr. Manger, actually, there's been numerous votes by the commission on the video technology license plate reader technology updates to the commission dating back to 2020.
[6:06:09] So all of the action has been done by the commission.
[6:06:12] Did we vote on entering into a flock contract?
[6:06:16] We did not enter into a flat contract.
[6:06:18] That's right, it's a derivative of the red speed contract, yes you did.
[6:06:24] Okay, so I don't understand.
[6:06:30] That was legislation of action, we did vote on that.
[6:06:32] I know the red speed was, but so are you telling me that that is, that red speed is?
[6:06:39] There's a relationship between red speed and availability of flock, and you acted on that contract.
[6:06:46] Okay, I know we acted on that contract.
[6:06:47] I reviewed those items before we got here.
[6:06:49] There's no mention of flock, there's no mention of ALPRs.
[6:06:53] That's the contract, that's the contract you said is for the flock, and
[6:06:59] then you've had to have the motor role on the updates.
[6:07:02] So this commission's provided the direction.
[6:07:05] It's not been a few times, it's been numerous times.
[6:07:10] All right, we got a motion on the table, but we're going to take a vote.
[6:07:12] All those in favor of the motion made by Commissioner Diane Williams-Cock, seconded by the mayor,
[6:07:16] pro-tem, seconded by by saying aye.
[6:07:18] All right.
[6:07:18] All those opposed?
[6:07:20] And it passes unanimously, 5-0.
[6:07:22] We have nothing else to come before us.
[6:07:24] We are on other agenda speakers, Mr. Chair.
[6:07:26] Mr. Mayor, can I just take care of that item that we were going to take care of earlier?
[6:07:32] Do you want me to-
[6:07:35] I would just like to, the record to reflect my vote on the street renaming to be unanimous.
[6:07:44] Well, I think we have to, she wants to change her position and change the official vote on the street renaming
[6:07:49] reductors' homes. So do I need to take a motion to reconsider?
[6:07:55] Again, it's, Robert's rule refers to it as if it's within the same meeting, it's not really a motion to reconsider.
[6:08:01] It does require unanimous consent of the body to allow the commissioner to change her vote.
[6:08:08] Commissioner Porter wants to change her vote on the renaming so that the vote reflects not a 4-1, but a 5-0 unanimous vote.
[6:08:15] Is there any objection seeing none let the record reflect a 5-0 unanimous vote in the renaming of the street in favor of the doctors?
[6:08:23] We are on unadjointed speakers.
[6:08:25] Mr. Clerk, how many speakers do we have?
[6:08:27] I have nine, nine speakers, let's go.
[6:08:29] First speaker, Bobbi Nehoun, followed by Michael Rubano.
[6:08:40] Bobbi Nehoun, 576 East Call Street.
[6:08:43] I'm speaking to you all today about the need in our community for public access to tracks for running an exercise.
[6:08:49] For many decades, tell HACC residents had access to the tracks that are public high schools.
[6:08:54] During evenings, weekends, and holidays when they're not being used for school activities, practices, or games.
[6:08:58] In 2020, the school district completely closed public access these tracks.
[6:09:03] After lobbying the district, we got them to reopen the tracks in a limited capacity in 2023.
[6:09:10] For a few months again in 2025.
[6:09:13] For almost an entire year, we hadn't reopened in 2025.
[6:09:17] However, this past June, the district once again closed public access.
[6:09:21] Our community now has no access to these tracks.
[6:09:23] This deprives residents of safe places to exercise and young athletes of places to train for sports and athletic competitions outside of school hours.
[6:09:33] I along with others and once again working with the school board to find a permanent solution to reopen the tracks.
[6:09:39] The school board and superintendent have been receptive but they have expressed that they could use help maintaining the tracks and bathrooms to accommodate public use.
[6:09:47] I believe it's time for the city to fell, ask you to partner with Leon County Schools.
[6:09:52] They were shared use agreement to help maintain these facilities and restore public access during designated hours when the tracks are not being used by the schools.
[6:10:01] Several school board members and the superintendent are open to this idea and there is precedent for the shared use agreements.
[6:10:06] Board of Statute 101 3.101 passed in 2018, was specifically intended to encourage school districts and local governments to create shared use agreements to make outdoor school recreational facilities available to the public.
[6:10:21] Before the law was passed, the shared use task force was created to explore the benefits of local governments and school districts combining resources to make school facilities available to the public.
[6:10:33] The report became the basis for Florida Statute 101 3.101.
[6:10:38] Task force found that public access to the track can improve public health,
[6:10:42] help prevent vandalism by putting more people on school grounds during off hours,
[6:10:46] and conserve taxpayer dollars by preventing unnecessary duplication of facilities.
[6:10:52] This is relevant in our city here because we don't need to spend tax dollars in building more public tracks
[6:10:57] when we already have five high school tracks that sit vacant much of the time.
[6:11:01] It makes more sense for the city to work with the school district to make these existing facilities available to the public designated hours.
[6:11:09] Board of Statute 375.251 provides liability protection for local governments and school districts that make recreational facilities available for public use.
[6:11:19] So liability associated with public use of these tracks is not obstacle.
[6:11:23] You're at 20 seconds remaining.
[6:11:24] We had access to these tracks for decades and it worked.
[6:11:27] Presumably, the city never built new tracks because we always add access.
[6:11:31] I'm asking for you all to work with Leon County Schools to help restore public access to these tracks.
[6:11:36] Let's use the facilities we already have, safe taxpayer dollars, remote public health,
[6:11:40] and give our community back the tracks that we were able to use for decades.
[6:11:44] Thank you.
[6:11:44] Nice figure, please.
[6:11:46] Michael Robano, you'll be followed by Kim O'Connor.
[6:11:50] Name and address for the record police.
[6:11:51] My name is Michael Robano, 1325 West Tharp Street.
[6:11:55] Hello. I came here to talk about football, specifically game day traffic management by
[6:12:01] TPD. I'm a rideshare driver, I have been for a decade. I am in the trenches during
[6:12:07] game day when all this stuff happens.
[6:12:12] I'm specifically referring to traffic on game
[6:12:14] days and other events where TPD controls the flow of traffic. Currently the game day's
[6:12:18] traffic situation is an unmitigated disaster. Closing roads down does not get people where
[6:12:24] they need to go. The same song and dance has been done for decades. Despite changing demographics,
[6:12:30] there are now thousands of people, thousands of people that live in that area in College Town.
[6:12:35] Shuffling everyone out to Appalachia Parkway and closing all those roads makes no sense at all.
[6:12:41] People go to and from the game and cross the roads regularly and need to. The policy needs to be changed,
[6:12:50] It needs to be changed to where the roads are opened up, and people are allowed to come in and out where they need to go.
[6:12:55] This would make it easier to, and from the games, it would allow transportation, it would reduce the congestion that's created by TPD.
[6:13:04] It's a problem that creates itself.
[6:13:06] There's a traffic jam that's coming into town from the people that are shuffled out to Appalachia Parkway, because they didn't get where they needed to go.
[6:13:15] Right, they shut all these roads down, so now they go up, well, now an Appalachia Parkway,
[6:13:18] but I needed to really go to this hotel down here, whatever it is.
[6:13:21] So we have a traffic jam coming into town and a traffic jam leaving town during game day
[6:13:27] because it makes no sense. And I go, no, nobody talks about this. It's one of those things that's,
[6:13:32] it's existed so long, I think people just do it because it's the thing that happens on game day,
[6:13:36] but it makes no sense. It makes no sense at all, right? So it's just something that I just wanted
[6:13:40] to bring up and hopefully, you know, people can just start talking about it because I don't think
[6:13:46] to get anybody talks about it, and I think it's just something that's been done for so long, and it makes no sense.
[6:13:53] Yeah, that's pretty much it.
[6:13:55] I just wanted to see a reevaluation, and again, I mean, I'm not even sure that you guys are going to, the guys that talk about it, but
[6:14:00] I think that it's a partnership between the city, TBD, FSU, during game days, as part of a potential solution, I would think that
[6:14:10] And the real answer would not be reduced the police presence, but instead of blocking
[6:14:17] roads off, have police officers direct traffic as to where it needs to go.
[6:14:22] So instead of closing off lanes and arteries, you have people shuffling that traffic to
[6:14:28] where it needs to go.
[6:14:33] And again, I think you could do that with the exact same number of officers.
[6:14:36] I know you pull officers from literally counties from all over the place, Liberty Poke,
[6:14:40] what Kola you name it, they come from all over just so they can stand on a road,
[6:14:44] Twitter their thumbs, and nobody gets to go anywhere.
[6:14:47] They thanks a lot guys.
[6:14:49] Our next speaker please, Kim O'Connor, and then Finay.
[6:15:03] Your name and address for the record, please. My name is Kim O'Connor. I live at Georgia, Bill Dickinson.
[6:15:13] A few people, given their address, as there's zip code, I didn't know that was sufficient, but I'm going to give my whole address because of Georgia, Bill Dickinson, 301 East Carolina street, and I'm very proud to live there.
[6:15:28] I'm not as prepared as the two on agenda speakers, but I will do my best and it'll be over
[6:15:34] in three minutes.
[6:15:38] Tomorrow, I'm going to Sanchez as scheduled the 15th execution for 2026 of Daniel Conahan.
[6:15:51] In his first three years, he had zero executions, his next year he has six, next year after that, 2024 election year, he had one, but he's been on air this last two years, 2025 as a record, 19 and 2026, this will be number 15, and it's only August.
[6:16:16] On September 1st, they executed Harold Lucas, and at the same time, the governor was in
[6:16:27] Tampa at the Peppin Institute, having a Republican fundraiser to try to find out what the cost
[6:16:34] they said is similar to what they just had in Texas was $20,000 up, but none of that
[6:16:39] is information.
[6:16:40] And while the execution is scheduled at 6 p.m., he has a fundraiser in Tampa.
[6:16:44] He's an artist, Byron Donalds, Will Simpson, James Uthmeyer, and
[6:16:50] Blades in Gaulia.
[6:16:52] And so I just, I have to just mostly speaking to the public out there, you know,
[6:16:59] that we do some things here at the time as he's citizens against the disability.
[6:17:03] At Good Shepherd Church in the morning at 9 a.m., we'll have a program that's 46,
[6:17:09] 65 Thomasville Road, and then at 6 p.m. we gather at the governor's mansion, and he wasn't there on September 1st, we gather.
[6:17:20] And we bring the bill, that brings the first Presbyterian bill, and we bring it on every name for the governor, so this will be number 44.
[6:17:31] and just this fundraiser thing, in 2013, 13 years ago, September 10th, the same day, the anniversary of the day,
[6:17:40] I mean, I was at the execution of the anniversary of the day, that Pam Bonney got Rick Scott,
[6:17:46] 2013, to reschedule the execution of Marshall Lee Graves, so she could have a fundraiser in Tampa.
[6:17:54] I don't know what I'm asking the commission, but I am asked.
[6:17:58] And then the next day, September 11th, citizens against the LSEs,
[6:18:02] citizens against death penalty will have a service of remembrance around the rotunda.
[6:18:07] I hope anybody out there, anybody out there who would come and join us.
[6:18:11] I appreciate it so much.
[6:18:12] Thank you.
[6:18:13] Thank you.
[6:18:13] And to be here just 10 o'clock, I really appreciate you,
[6:18:16] the commissioner is to the mayor.
[6:18:18] Thank you.
[6:18:18] Our next speaker, please.
[6:18:19] FNA, because FNA wants twice.
[6:18:27] Here I'll offer it.
[6:18:34] Name an address for the record, please.
[6:18:37] You already know.
[6:18:38] Hey, this is Dar Alfred.
[6:18:40] I'm a resident at 14 West Tharp Street.
[6:18:43] I'm also a rideshare driver, and I have some policy for that if you guys are interested
[6:18:47] in talking about it.
[6:18:48] It's on my site.
[6:18:50] So, Tallahassee has effectively created a charging desert for residents who drive
[6:18:54] of Chathamau electric vehicles.
[6:18:56] You all got an email about it this past week.
[6:18:58] If you don't know what Chathamau is,
[6:19:00] it's one of the major DC fast charging plugs,
[6:19:02] most commonly used by Nissan Leafs
[6:19:04] in some earlier EVs.
[6:19:06] It's how my car fast charges.
[6:19:08] I've been driving mine since 2022.
[6:19:10] At the time, there was a promise of federal nebby funding
[6:19:13] that could cover up to 80% of new charging infrastructure.
[6:19:17] The Santa's blocked it.
[6:19:18] Florida never really got it.
[6:19:20] So for four years, people like me have learned
[6:19:22] to walk our work around a limited network.
[6:19:25] Today, a Tallahassee has roughly 40 CCS charging connections,
[6:19:29] about 52 NAX connections, and effectively one active
[6:19:33] Chatham O'Fash charger.
[6:19:35] I've driven 10 hours, gotten back to Tallahassee,
[6:19:37] or gotten back, gotten done at 4 in the morning,
[6:19:40] and still couldn't go home because somebody else was charging.
[6:19:44] I've fallen asleep waiting.
[6:19:45] What should have been a 40-minute stop can turn into hours.
[6:19:48] Then recently, you guys opened the cascades
[6:19:51] charging station with four fast chargers that work for my car.
[6:19:55] That was awesome.
[6:19:56] Leaf drivers, cried tears of joy.
[6:19:58] I saw them because they were in my rear view mirror.
[6:20:02] Then, just this past month, a maintenance crew came out.
[6:20:05] When they left, all four chat-mo connections were suddenly gone.
[6:20:08] Meanwhile, the state charger near the capitals
[6:20:10] been out because of construction and will be for the foreseeable future.
[6:20:14] Southwood is done.
[6:20:15] Kraft Nissan is the only single charger and it's private.
[6:20:18] So, after hours, you can't access it.
[6:20:21] So, someone coming in until AC late at night working overnight like I have for years or living
[6:20:26] in an apartment without home charging can realistically find themselves with nowhere
[6:20:29] to go and stranded on the side of the road.
[6:20:32] This is what makes this worse is how the transition was handled.
[6:20:36] For a Chathamode driver, the answer is now basically go buy an adapter that costs around 800 bucks.
[6:20:42] They use, excuse me, that's backwards.
[6:20:44] They use Nissan Leaf as one of the most affordable ways for a working person to get into an
[6:20:48] electric car, most people buying one don't have $800 sitting around to fix a problem they didn't create.
[6:20:54] I'm lucky enough to have a regular outlet at home, charging for 24 hours to get a full charge guys.
[6:21:00] But plenty of apartment residents don't even have that.
[6:21:03] So my remitties straightforward, restored Chathamau access at cascades, whether that means restoring the Chathamau connections or providing compatible CCS to Chathamau adapters at the station.
[6:21:14] I'm not asking Tallahassee to stop modernizing.
[6:21:16] I'm asking to modernize without stranding people.
[6:21:19] If we're spending public money on transportation for structure,
[6:21:22] more people should be able to use it when we're done, not fewer.
[6:21:25] The Tesla adapter to Chathamau is like 50 bucks.
[6:21:29] My adapter is 800 bucks and people like me can't afford it.
[6:21:32] As far as while I have a little bit of time, 10 seconds,
[6:21:35] we should have stations away from events,
[6:21:38] You know, where Baja's is at the fairgrounds, the governor's square mall where people can be diverted after events and not congest the center of town and create emergency problems in the center of town. Thank you, too.
[6:21:53] Next speaker, please.
[6:21:54] Sean Thomas, in Lisa Sears.
[6:22:01] Name the gesture of the record, please.
[6:22:02] Sean Thomas, 2113, join your drive.
[6:22:06] When I first wrote this, it was afternoon, is now evening, so I've been here since now 10, so I know we're all tired.
[6:22:17] My first wasn't going to do an unagent speaking item until I saw behavior on the commission that I thought I needed to point out.
[6:22:26] So, Mayor Daley, let's start with you, year after year, your colleagues on this very commission
[6:22:34] and outside groups have described the same pattern, talking over women, belittling them
[6:22:39] in the chambers, concerning that or cornering them in a hallway.
[6:22:44] You earned the nickname for me and I hope it sticks.
[6:22:46] Daley, the king of mansplaining, that's not a punchline, it's what happens when someone
[6:22:52] with power treats with the woman on this commission like they're here to be managed instead of heard.
[6:22:59] That behavior doesn't play in this room. It sets the tone of how every department,
[6:23:04] every board and every resident watching at home learns to treat each other and is the direct driver
[6:23:10] of the division in the city. Commissioner Williams-Hawks, first time in eight years on this commission you
[6:23:16] have achieved a runoff election that doesn't happen to someone the community feels is listening.
[6:23:21] You can rename Wannish Way, Pasco Street, West Carolina Street, and now push the floor for
[6:23:27] junior street to four streets.
[6:23:30] And not one of those room cuttings fixes a pothole, lowers a utility bill, or returns a resident's phone call.
[6:23:38] Streets are symbols, people need substance.
[6:23:41] And this runoff is the community telling you they've noticed the difference.
[6:23:44] You say we need to move forward about the city manager, and that we have seen the city move forward.
[6:23:49] But under Mayor Daley, under your tenure, and under RISCO, we have seen a rise in robberies at gas stations.
[6:23:55] Block parties have to have TPD officers and drones to protect them from shootings.
[6:24:00] And city commission, as city commission is urging churches to do a city hall's job.
[6:24:06] And Commissioner Richardson, we've all heard it.
[6:24:09] Quote on quote, I was born and raised on the south side.
[6:24:12] It's become a meme in this town because you reach for it every time your record gets questioned.
[6:24:17] them, as if geography excuses policy.
[6:24:20] It doesn't.
[6:24:21] The Southside deserves a commissioner who fights for it with boats, not a home townline
[6:24:26] recycled for cover while the public loses out.
[6:24:30] Yes, 30 seconds.
[6:24:31] Thank you.
[6:24:32] This dius sets the tone for the whole city.
[6:24:34] When residents watch a mayor talk down to his colleagues, a commissioner dodge accountability
[6:24:39] with the slogan and streets renamed while real problems sit on the touch, they stop trusting
[6:24:44] each other and they stop trusting you.
[6:24:46] and that is how division gets manufactured in Tallahassee,
[6:24:50] not by outsiders, not by Matlow,
[6:24:53] but by the conduct in this very room.
[6:24:55] We're asking you or at least I am,
[6:24:58] treat each other with, treat each other,
[6:25:00] and bring him this respect.
[6:25:01] Thank you so much.
[6:25:02] Thank you so much.
[6:25:03] Thank you so much.
[6:25:03] Our next speaker, Lisa Sears.
[6:25:06] Lisa Sears will be followed by a Delilah Pierre.
[6:25:12] My name is Lisa Sears, 3-2-3-0-3.
[6:25:15] Due to work I wasn't able to arrive,
[6:25:17] here until after the city manager topic. And when I got here and I was told what
[6:25:24] happened, I was in shock. I was like, no, that can't be. That's ridiculous. What
[6:25:32] do they make up a new rule? And honestly, it is mind-boggling to me. And I was
[6:25:39] explained really briefly with the reason why y'all use that. It doesn't make
[6:25:45] makes that still. And to me, my truth is that to me, that was very weak. That was like trying
[6:25:55] to hold on to power and make sure that the three two didn't go the other way on that
[6:26:01] particular person that you're putting there. And I'm not saying I don't like her. I don't
[6:26:07] know her. I hope that she's great, you know? And I hope that they work with the new dynamics
[6:26:13] Thanks coming into town.
[6:26:15] But seriously, I felt I needed to express my feelings as a citizen that was disappointing.
[6:26:24] Next speaker, please.
[6:26:26] La La Pierre is our final speaker.
[6:26:29] May we address for the record, please?
[6:26:32] La La Pierre, a member of the Tassie Alliance against racism, political repression, address exempt.
[6:26:37] I'm here to speak on behalf of the Tallahassee students for a democratic society,
[6:26:41] a local organization at FSU that is being repressed by Florida State University and has continued to be repressed by Florida State University for using their first amendment rights.
[6:26:55] Organizing is not a crime. The right to protest is not a crime. The right to speak out against injustice is not a crime no matter how much you like it or don't like it.
[6:27:04] and time and time again, Florida State University has proven that they do see the right to organize
[6:27:09] as a crime. They criminalize and repress protesters. And now, Florida State University students,
[6:27:15] JJ, Glouac, and Kaden Rosa, face the potential of having, you know, of being kicked off their own
[6:27:21] campus for doing nothing more than organizing against rape culture on campus. Florida State University
[6:27:27] claims that the real reason that this is happening is because they quote unquote harassed a member of
[6:27:34] campus, but this isn't what's happened.
[6:27:36] Florida State University students, JJ,
[6:27:38] Glouac and Kaden Rosa are fighting for justice.
[6:27:42] They are organizers in our community who have
[6:27:44] thought side by side to see improvements in their school
[6:27:48] and the lives of people in their schools.
[6:27:50] Meanwhile, Florida State University continues to
[6:27:52] suck up more of the resources, energy, and life of our city.
[6:27:57] They act like there's nothing that can get them in trouble.
[6:28:00] They act like they're invincible.
[6:28:01] And that's because they are treated like they are invincible.
[6:28:03] That's because our City Commission constantly bends over backwards to give more funding, more money, and more resources to
[6:28:11] Florida State University, while Tallahassee students and Tallahassee residents starve.
[6:28:16] We lack access to the same qualities, the same healthcare, the same affordable rights,
[6:28:21] the same things that can essentially help people in the city live and thrive.
[6:28:25] So I'm going to say specifically to Commissioner's Porter and Matlow as commissioners who I think are on a more progressive trend in the city.
[6:28:33] who have shown that they're more willing to stand for more substantive policy in the city.
[6:28:38] Speak out publicly in favor of these two students who are being repressed by Photo State University.
[6:28:43] This repression of the right to organize affects all of us and affects you as well.
[6:28:48] Because we know that Rhonda Santas, that Trump, that the other reactionaries in power in our country,
[6:28:54] are not just going to start with targeting student activists and end there.
[6:28:57] They're not just going to target community activists, they're not just going to target people who are fighting on the streets.
[6:29:01] They're going to target politicians as well.
[6:29:04] They're going to use their power to partisanly attack whoever they can.
[6:29:08] And if you don't stand with J.J. and Kaden, they can't stand with you.
[6:29:12] But if you do stand with the people and stand against the attacks that we're seeing from
[6:29:17] the Santas and the Trump administration and Florida State University against students doing nothing
[6:29:21] more than fighting for their right to free speech, then we will stand with you.
[6:29:26] For the rest of you, I expect nothing.
[6:29:28] Let's continue to organize and fight for justice in our city and our community.
[6:29:32] What does that university does not determine who has the right to speak?
[6:29:36] The students do.
[6:29:38] The next speaker, please.
[6:29:40] I have no further speakers.
[6:29:42] All right, we're on a shared of ideas.
[6:29:44] I got nothing.
[6:29:45] Mayor Prattim, Mr. Williams Cox, Mr. Metlow.
[6:29:49] Thank you, Mr. Mayor.
[6:29:50] I'm fighting to suggest the three issues from public speakers on the track uses with Leon County schools.
[6:29:57] It was mentioned I guess the tracks have been
[6:30:00] I'm shut down to the general public. My personal opinion is the school board and superintendent are asking us to renew a property tax to go into infrastructure. We all pay into that and this should be accessible to the public within reason, but I'm open to the idea of a shared use agreement within reason to allow access to the tracks again for city residents. So I like to move. We bring back an item, just contemplating the idea of a shared use agreement with Leon County school stuff in the tracks. Most should on the table.
[6:30:29] to enter into an agreement with Leon County Schools or shared use agreement for their
[6:30:37] tracks. They're second to the motion.
[6:30:39] I'll second the motion, but a point of clarification, it was, I understood the motion to be to have an item come back, not to enter into a joint use agreement.
[6:30:47] Yeah, to have an item come back. Okay, okay. I will respectfully definitely not be supporting this motion.
[6:30:52] That is Leon County School property. It should be open to the public and the fact that they're coming to us and
[6:30:58] And they want us to pay to have their track open for public use.
[6:31:03] We concentrate on our parks and recreation.
[6:31:06] We have a joint use agreement for when we operate like
[6:31:09] policy parks and recreation for like football and stuff.
[6:31:12] And that's a very successful agreement at work.
[6:31:15] But for the shared use of just maintaining their facility.
[6:31:19] For the track, I can't go there.
[6:31:21] I'm not interested.
[6:31:22] That's their responsibility and they need to take care of business.
[6:31:27] commission Williams-Gox.
[6:31:31] I'll say this, or I've said this many times before, we have an agreement with Leon County
[6:31:36] Schools for utilities.
[6:31:38] It goes to $1 million.
[6:31:40] We haven't gotten it.
[6:31:42] So I don't see how, yeah, Professor, I don't see how doing this type of agreement, I have
[6:31:48] a staff spend time with this, knowing that we've got something with a real money on the land
[6:31:53] and they told us they're not going to do it.
[6:31:57] So I'm just don't see where we have leeway to do that.
[6:32:01] And having gone to the school board in the past,
[6:32:04] many, many times to try to get a new high school build on the south side of Tallahassee.
[6:32:09] And it didn't happen in many reasons.
[6:32:12] I just don't see where energy needs to be spent in doing that.
[6:32:16] Now, of course, if we have, the city has some facilities that are open to the public.
[6:32:22] We can direct folks there to get their exercise in, but I just don't think we need to be dipping into another governmental entity's business, especially as a million dollars.
[6:32:34] So, a motion on tab made by Commissioner Mantle, a second by Commissioner Porter to bring back an agenda.
[6:32:39] I am exploring the expansion of the shared use agreement to include public school tracks, all those in favor signify by, I'm sorry, Mayor Prattam.
[6:32:48] So, yeah, you know, just earlier tonight we passed an increase in our military and a budget for the next fiscal year.
[6:32:57] So, we have a level of military, but it will increase in the budget.
[6:33:02] In the budget. And so now we're talking about additional expense when we don't know what amendment three is going to look like.
[6:33:12] Correct.
[6:33:12] that could cost us money.
[6:33:15] Schools are exempt from the provisions of that amendment.
[6:33:19] And I just can't see us at this point
[6:33:23] agreeing to pay the expenses to have those facilities
[6:33:31] available to the public.
[6:33:32] I think it's the responsibility of the school district
[6:33:35] and they should find the fund to make those facilities available to the public as they have in the past.
[6:33:48] All those in favour of the motion on the table, Commissioner Porter?
[6:33:51] Thank you, Mr. Mayor.
[6:33:52] I'll just add that we don't really know what it would cost, and so that's why I support this motion for it to come back to us.
[6:34:02] All those in favour of something?
[6:34:03] Thank you, Mr. Mayor.
[6:34:06] And so just for clarification, what public tracks are available through the City of Tallahassee,
[6:34:11] the City of Tallahassee resident, Mr. Mayor?
[6:34:15] I don't know, I'd have to get rational, but I don't believe there are any city tracks.
[6:34:22] Well, we got Cascades Park, which is 3.2 mile track around the holding facility.
[6:34:27] It's not the traditional track of which you're thinking of of track and field.
[6:34:31] We also maintain how many hundreds of miles of greenways and trails in the city.
[6:34:37] It's over 70 miles and then including with the county.
[6:34:41] We have more and much more and we have parts.
[6:34:44] I mean, you are correct.
[6:34:45] We do not, to my knowledge, operate the traditional track that a high school does.
[6:34:52] But we do offer plenty of municipal facilities to be able to get out, run and get exercise.
[6:34:58] Again, I strongly believe it is a county facility, the school board needs to find a way through their budget to keep their facility open, and we do not need to be maintaining their tracks.
[6:35:12] Period. Okay, motion on the table. All those in favor of the motion?
[6:35:16] Seeming five by saying aye.
[6:35:17] Aye.
[6:35:18] All those opposed.
[6:35:19] Aye.
[6:35:19] All right.
[6:35:20] And it fails to the three with the mayor of Mayor Pro Tem and Commissioner Williams Cox in the Senate,
[6:35:24] Mr. Matlow and Commissioner Porter in favor.
[6:35:26] Commissioner Matlow, you have the floor.
[6:35:28] Thank you, Mr. Mayor.
[6:35:29] So then I'd like to move that we bring back an agenda item outlining the public facilities available for
[6:35:35] track and field to the city of Telehusty residents.
[6:35:39] Thank you.
[6:35:40] Sure.
[6:35:41] Isn't that part of the annual report that we produce every year through Parks and
[6:35:45] War creation, what we maintain?
[6:35:50] I believe the commission just said track and field and I think I think you'll just establish that we don't do track and field.
[6:35:56] I mean, maybe I'm just understanding the question, we have walking and track and field being distinct, I guess.
[6:36:04] Is that question?
[6:36:05] Yeah, I mean, the mayor's assertion was that there's plenty of ways to engage in that activity.
[6:36:09] So, I mean, we can outline the difference between track and field tracks that are available, what it would take to create a track for the cost to create a track for
[6:36:23] I don't even want to go down this road to be quite honest with you, at this point, with trying to build a track in facility when we have such a tight budget in amendment three is coming down the pipe.
[6:36:40] I just don't know if it's worth using staff time to track the, if you, if you want
[6:36:46] just a list of the Parks and Rights Facilities, we have that on the website, and
[6:36:51] then the annual report.
[6:36:52] We do not have a traditional track in the sense of what the schools are operating.
[6:36:59] So outside of exploring the creation of a track that has been misplaced and
[6:37:04] The information's there, Commissioner Matlow.
[6:37:09] Sure, it could all be provided in the agenda item, the submission.
[6:37:12] Okay.
[6:37:13] What was the motion, could you restate the motion?
[6:37:14] Let's see, bring back in the agenda item, illustrating, tracking field, opportunities for
[6:37:21] city of Tallahassee, residents of facilities that are operated for that activity.
[6:37:27] All those in favor of the motion on the table, so you can file by saying aye.
[6:37:29] Aye.
[6:37:30] Okay.
[6:37:30] Well, let's pose.
[6:37:31] All right.
[6:37:31] Motion fails.
[6:37:32] Two to three with mayor, mayor pro-10 and commission-winps cocks and dissent commission-winps cocks.
[6:37:36] Oh, point.
[6:37:37] I think it's an easy list to provide.
[6:37:40] Yeah.
[6:37:40] I mean, I wouldn't want to spend staff time doing what we could do.
[6:37:45] Correct.
[6:37:46] Correct.
[6:37:47] Commissioner Malley, you had the floor.
[6:37:48] Thank you.
[6:37:50] I know a game day trafficer else was mentioned and it's changed a million times over my life.
[6:37:55] I don't pretend to understand the different reasonings for that, but if that could just provide an update.
[6:37:59] by email of the traffic patterns,
[6:38:03] how they're measured, their efficiencies are measured,
[6:38:06] just for better understanding.
[6:38:08] So, am I correct in assuming that it's actually
[6:38:13] Florida State University that contracts
[6:38:15] with the Palace Police Department
[6:38:17] and all the other agencies for game day traffic
[6:38:21] because every year that's a big contract negotiation
[6:38:23] that goes through, so Florida State would be the point person
[6:38:27] on the traffic.
[6:38:29] Adderance, first.
[6:38:30] No, Mr. Mayor, you're right.
[6:38:33] So the TPD provides a little over a hundred officers,
[6:38:37] but it takes much more than that.
[6:38:39] Sure, sure.
[6:38:39] So if you contract with TPD in the other agencies,
[6:38:43] share office does different functions.
[6:38:46] The traffic management,
[6:38:48] I do believe TPD can provide the details of that,
[6:38:52] of the flow of traffic,
[6:38:54] where the streets are blocked and those kinds of things.
[6:38:56] It's manned and operated by a collection of officers, you know, that's through FSU, but I do believe that TPD could provide the flow of traffic pattern.
[6:39:08] It sounds good.
[6:39:09] It sounds good.
[6:39:10] For the record, I am comfortable with my pattern in and out and I'm not part of the Southern Scholarship Foundation.
[6:39:17] I don't have any special parking or anything.
[6:39:19] But you want to have a briefing on the traffic pattern of game day.
[6:39:23] Yeah, I can just be an email of how it was decided what the implications are the efficiencies of it just this question.
[6:39:32] I'd be helpful. I'm not familiar with the red chair spots and how they coordinate that.
[6:39:37] I'd be curious on that as well. Commissioner Williams got on that on point there.
[6:39:40] I think it needs to be also considered by everybody that it is not a good idea to have two games on the same day at the same time.
[6:39:52] That is where the problem is, there's many times, it stretches our law enforcement.
[6:39:58] I don't care what kind of traffic plans you may have, but when you're trying to
[6:40:01] manage a FAMU and FSU football games at the same time, and I understand it's gonna
[6:40:05] happen another time this season, so we just buckle up, buckle up, and it's not good,
[6:40:13] it's really not good, so get that information, it would be good, but I don't know
[6:40:16] I don't know what it's going to do, we'll have it.
[6:40:20] Do you need an email?
[6:40:22] I mean, do you need an information for it?
[6:40:23] Yes, we'll email it.
[6:40:27] All right.
[6:40:28] Sounds good.
[6:40:28] Commissioner Mellie, you have the floor.
[6:40:29] Thank you.
[6:40:30] And the final speaker mentioned the change in the chargers for Nissan Leafs.
[6:40:35] Have we changed those?
[6:40:37] Or how?
[6:40:38] We'll look at that.
[6:40:40] That was an interesting comedy.
[6:40:41] He has an old-style charger.
[6:40:43] or I think that was understood from his description.
[6:40:47] The charges we put in at Cascades had that older plug
[6:40:50] and it'd been upgraded to the more current plug.
[6:40:53] Because of the man.
[6:40:54] We just the way the cars are.
[6:40:56] I think what you heard him describe was,
[6:40:58] he has a Nissan leaf that has a very specific one.
[6:41:01] But we'll take a look at it.
[6:41:02] I think that was a good comment in terms of availability,
[6:41:04] in terms of the stations we have.
[6:41:06] Because we've got the one at Van Buren
[6:41:11] and we're building the one on Orange Avenue.
[6:41:13] So we'll see what we can do.
[6:41:15] I don't know how that works, right?
[6:41:17] The adapter, but we'll certainly look into that.
[6:41:21] Thank you, Mr. Mayor.
[6:41:22] Health and pay.
[6:41:23] Mr. Porter.
[6:41:24] Thank you, Mr. Mayor.
[6:41:25] I just have one item.
[6:41:29] I would like to make a motion and I'm not sure exactly
[6:41:34] the best way to do this, but that we, I think it's important
[6:41:37] that we do something to recognize the historic significance
[6:41:41] of West Virginia Street and French town as a safe haven for black travelers.
[6:41:46] I think that was something that seemed important to the people there.
[6:41:50] And for the record, I spoke to Reverend Holmes, and he would have happily accepted the Bernou Street renaming.
[6:41:57] But since we didn't go in that direction, I think it would be important if there is a way to preserve that history that we do so.
[6:42:07] So whether I don't know what options there are, but that would, I don't know if there's any insight from the manager.
[6:42:15] I was second that motion, and I did have some follow up conversation with Miss Daryl Scott, and with Miss Maesha Mitchell.
[6:42:24] And I offered the possibility of having something that says formerly known as as well as having a marker that would identify all of
[6:42:35] those historical businesses and entities that were there on those streets.
[6:42:42] All those favour the motion on table signify by saying aye.
[6:42:45] Aye.
[6:42:45] All those pass as unions, the commission for you have the floor.
[6:42:49] Thank you, that's all for me.
[6:42:50] We stand adjourned.