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The state affairs will come to order and clerk will call the roll. Here. Getting credit for our

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garen, gian, king, mire, aloe vera, smith, patty, for briggas, smithy.

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I want to remind everyone that only those with capital media credentials will be allowed

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to fill them or record this hearing.

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This hearing is streamed live and is archived for later viewing.

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Article 3, Section 11 of the Texas Constitution authorizes a House that determines the rules

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of its own proceedings, including the rules of committee proceedings.

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The House rules also explain that our states and I quote, shall be deemed the only requirement

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binding on the House's representatives under Article 11 Section 3 of Texas Constitution,

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notwithstanding any other requirement expressed in statute.

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Statuary requirements including the government code authorization for individuals to record

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meetings that conflict with the House rules are not binding on the legislature.

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This committee appreciates everyone respecting the rule requirements for maintaining decorum in this committee.

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Members, before we get started on hearing new bills, we're going to take a few votes.

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So the chair is going to lay out House Bill 29 as pending business.

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Members, if everybody will remember, this is the bill from Chairman Thompson relating to

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a prostitution and trafficking of persons, I remember that bill.

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The chair moves at House Bill 29 be reported favorably to the full house with a recommendation

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that it do pass and be printed and the clerk will call the roll.

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Cook.

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Yes.

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Getings.

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Cratics.

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So represent Rodriguez here.

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Getings.

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Cratics.

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Cratics.

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Carrar.

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Yes.

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Garen.

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Yes.

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Gian.

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King.

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Hi.

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Kempel.

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Yes.

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Meyer.

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Olivera.

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Patty.

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Hi.

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Rodriguez.

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Smithie.

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10

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out of three absent, the motion prevails.

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Chair ladies out, House Bill 89.

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Chair ladies out, House Bill 89 is pending business.

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Members, this bill relates to state contracts and investments and companies that boycott Israel.

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Representative Garen offers up a committee substitute to House Bill 89.

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Reims and Garen moves that the substitute to House Bill 89 be adopted.

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Is there objection?

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There being no object and the substitute is adopted.

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Reims and Garen moves the House Bill 89 S substitute to be reported favorit as a full house with recommendation that do pass.

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Clerk will call the roll.

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I'm.

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Getting, credit, for our, Garen, Gian, King, Kempel, Myer,

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Alvera, Patty, Rodriguez, Smithy.

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Ten eyes, three absent, the motion prevails.

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No,

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the chair, the chair lays out House Bill 582 as pending business.

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Members, this bill related driver's license and personal identification certificates used

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for refugees and asylumees, lawfully admitted into the United States.

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Representative Smithy offers up a committee substitute to House Bill 582.

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Representative Smithy moves the substitute to House Bill 582 be adopted.

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Is there objection? There being no objection, the substitute is adopted. Representative Smithing moves that House Bill 582 has substitute to be favorited to the full House with recommendation that it do pass and be printed. Clerk will call the roll.

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Good, getings,

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fratig, barar,

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garen,

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gian,

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king,

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campals,

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mire,

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alvera,

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caddy,

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Rodriguez,

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smithy,

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eight eyes, two nays,

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three absent motion prevails.

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Chair

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Lee's out house bill, 1048 is pending business.

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Members, this is the bill that relates to the announcement of management of risk identified in state information security plans by Monaris.

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Okay, representative for our moves, that house bill 1048 be adopted, be reported favorably to the full house for recommendations that do pass, be printed in place on the local consent, consent calendar.

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Clerk will call the roll.

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So, cook, aye.

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Getings,

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Cratic,

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Ferrar,

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Garen,

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Gian,

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King,

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Kempel,

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Meyer,

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Oliveira,

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Patty,

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Rodriguez,

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Smithy,

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tenice,

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yes.

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Tenice, three absent motion prevails.

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Chair lays out House Bill 1142 as pending business.

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Members, this bill relating to prohibiting government contracts with a company doing business, with Iran, Sudan, and other foreign terrorist organization.

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Representative Patty moves at House Bill 1142, be reported favorably to the full House of Recommendations, and it do pass me, printed, clerk will call the roll.

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So, could I get in credit for our Garen, Gian, King, Kempel, Chair, Chair, getting present.

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Myr, Olivera, Patty, Rodriguez, Smithy, getting, is this present or is this a bill?

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This is the bill.

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This is relating the prohibition government contracts with companies doing business with Iran, Sudan, and other foreign tariffs.

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Thank you, Mr. Chair.

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You're welcome.

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I'd be in here.

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We need to show Gian.

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Oh, show represent Gian here.

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Okay.

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Does he want to vote on this?

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Do you want to?

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This is the bill.

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He showed him voting on it.

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There being 12 eyes, one absent motion prevails.

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Because

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the chair lays out House Bill 1450 as pending business.

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Members, this is the bill laid to state collaboration with federally organized Indian tribes.

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Representative Gittings offers up a committee substitute to House Bill 1450.

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Representative Gittings moves that the substitute to House Bill 1450 be adopted as their objection.

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There be no objection, the substance is adopted, represent.

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Giddings moves at House Bill 1450, as substance to be afforded.

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Fable is the full house or recommendation that do pass me printed clerk will call the row.

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Cook, aye.

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Getting, aye.

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Pratic, Thorar, Garen, Gian, King, Kempel, Mayer, Oliveira, Smithy, excuse me.

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Patty, Rodriguez, Smithy.

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There being 12 eyes, one absent the motion prevails.

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Members, that's all that we're going to vote out today, so thank you.

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Please thank you, I get to go to the district council.

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I mean, about 72, the House Bill please, they call it House Bill 172.

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Okay, this time the chair calls up House Bill 2572 and recognize the chairman of the district

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council to explain his bill.

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Thank you, Mr. Chairman and committee members.

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House bill 2572.

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As follows, allow the advance meters and meet information that works, which have been deployed across

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Texas outside within AirCOT to also be used by inter-G Texas. It allows them to follow the

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PUC rules that were established for these particular meters, the surcharge in an applicable

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customer protection adopted by the PUC for the AirCOT smart meter system will be applied

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to the energy smart meter system.

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We have a committee substitute that's not quite ready, but it just clarifies that the

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deployment applies to the distribution system and not to the transmission system.

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And I ask any questions.

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I think we have resource witness if you have.

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Okay.

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Members, are there any questions?

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If not, we'll ask you to reserve the right to close.

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I do.

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Okay, a chair called Cyrus Reed.

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Is Cyrus Reed here?

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here. Okay,

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what is the restoration? Here it comes.

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I want to let me in.

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Let them in.

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It's probably good reason, sir.

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Cyrus Reed, Lonestar, Chapters, Sierra Club, support the bill because it maintains the

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provisions that say when we roll out these advance meters, we want to make sure they can

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be used by the public for demand response purposes which are going to help us in terms of using

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using new technology to reduce emissions, so I think it's a good bill and are in support.

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Happy to answer any questions.

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Members, any questions for SARS?

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Thank you, as well as for being here for SARS.

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Stephanie Simpson, Texas Association of Manufacturers.

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Stephanie Simpson, I'm a Vice President of the Texas Association of Manufacturers.

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Thank you, Chairman and members for allowing me today.

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As you know, Tam represents the largest customers in the energy service area.

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Stephanie, if you would, I'll have you a neutral on the bill.

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We are neutral on the bill.

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Okay, go ahead.

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Yeah.

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We have already paid, our members have already paid to install sophisticated meters that record their electricity usage in real time.

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These are integral data, recorders or IDRs.

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House bill 2572 proposes to install similar meters for smaller customers and put the costs in regulated rates.

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Since TM members have already invested their own money for

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with advance capabilities, they should not have to buy new meters to pay these costs.

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Tam has been working with the Entry G on Language, that would exclude our members from this bill.

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I believe we have agreed upon language, but again, as Representative said, that is not yet available, so we are on the bill.

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Okay, very good, thank you.

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Members, any questions?

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Thank you.

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Okay, is there anyone else that's signed up to speak on for, or against House Bill 2572?

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There'll be a nun calling Chairman Desselta to close on the bill.

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I close, Mr. Chair.

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Thank you very much.

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This time's the Chair's intent to leave House Bill 2572 pending.

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Chair lays out House Bill 1373 and calls on Chairman Davis to explain her bill.

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Hopefully this will be just as smooth as that one, get afternoon.

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I'm here to lay out House Bill 1373.

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Texas has the fifth highest teen birth rate in the United States and

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and leads the nation in repeat pregnancies.

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In 2010 alone, teen births cost Texas taxpayers over $1.1 billion in both direct healthcare

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costs and indirect economic costs, such as loss wages and economic output and increased

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dependence on social services.

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For example, Texas Medicaid paid for over 250,000 deliveries by teen mothers at the cost

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of over $731 million to taxpayers between 2009 and 2015 because teen moms are more likely

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to live in poverty. Texas Medicaid often pays for additional

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births when they become pregnant again. In fact, 60% of teen moms ultimately drop out

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of high school and only 2% go on to obtain a college degree by age 30. This reduces economic

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opportunity for teen moms who often lack resources to need to provide a good life for themselves and their children.

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Given the increased poverty often leads to increased teen pregnancy and teen pregnancy rates often lead to increased poverty, repeat teen pregnancies,

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Doom, both team moms and their-

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This economic reality means that children of teen moms are three times more likely to become teen parents than cells. Despite these breathtaking statistics, current law perpetuates the repeat teen pregnancy cycle because it deprives teen moms of the ability to make a responsible health care decision. HB 1373 will reduce the state's astronomical repeat teen pregnancy rate by empowering teen moms

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to obtain preventative medication.

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First, HB 1373 is common sense.

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Allowing teen moms to obtain birth control

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enables them to make responsible preventative medical decisions,

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giving teen moms the ability to consent to birth control

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and powers them to break the cycle of repeat teen pregnancy.

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This bill would also save tax dollars.

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Decreasing the number of repeat teen pregnancies

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will reduce the cost of these pregnancies

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to the Medicaid program.

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The decrease in teen pregnancies will save taxpayer dollars in decreased child welfare and criminal justice and public health spending.

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Lastly, 1373 takes a forward-thinking approach to reducing the repeat teen pregnancy rate.

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It ensures that teen moms have the necessary resources to provide the best lives for themselves and for their children.

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As a result, it improves the odds that teen moms and their children will go on to lead happy and productive lives.

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In conclusion, House Bill 1373 takes a thoughtful measure set to reduce the teen pregnancy rate

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and improving health outcomes for teen moms and their children all about saving taxpayer

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dollars. We have four witnesses that will be called up to answer any questions and let's

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leave French, the Associate Commissioner for Health and Independent Services for HHSC is here

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And I just want to remind the committee that teens have access to emergency contraception.

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But they do not have access to birth control that would prevent the need for such contraception.

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So I'm happy to answer any questions that you may have.

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Thank you, your greetings, Heather, question.

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Yes, thank you very much, Representative Davis seems like a very, very thoughtful bill.

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Basically, your bill is geared toward teens who are already mom, so they already have a child.

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And basically, what you are trying to do through this bill is to stop that cycle so

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that they don't have additional babies because in most cases, when we look at the statistics

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for teens, the highest majority, I think about 82% are like unplanned pregnancies.

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So this your bill sort of gives the mother, the teen mother, the ability to take some personal responsibility

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and thereby hopefully lift herself and her family out of poverty.

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Yes.

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And this bill is strictly contraceptive.

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It has nothing to do with abortion or anything like that.

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It's strictly preventive.

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That allows the teen mom to do family planning.

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Right.

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And the bill is very specific on line 16 of page two is unmarried, is the mother of a child

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and consents to examination or medical treatment, comma, other than abortion, comma, related to contraception.

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So the bill is very explicit that it is for a teen mother who's already had one child

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and this will not give access to abortion.

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Thank you.

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Seems very thoughtful.

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Thank you.

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Can the members any other questions?

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We're going to call.

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We go ahead.

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Jess, I'm sorry.

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I can't see.

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No, I'm sorry.

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I'm sorry.

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I can't be overweight in that.

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Just, you mentioned some numbers that I'm actually quite,

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I'm astonished that they were that high,

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dollar-wise, the cost of the state.

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Do you have any facts about children?

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I mean, the next step is how many children of teen moms end up in the CPS system?

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And what that cost is?

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As I stand here, I do not, but the witnesses that are here will be able to provide you all of that information.

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All right, thank you.

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Members, any other questions?

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Not we'll call witnesses.

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And just so folks, we have basically two identical bills that's going to be laid out after this one.

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And so for the witnesses, you know, try to, you know, give us, you know, your position

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in a timely manner understanding that there's going to be very identical bill here in

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a minute.

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But anyway, Kelly MacBeya takes...

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Justice campaign to prevent teen pregnancy and self here to speak for the bill.

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Kelly Macbeth will show Kelly Macbeth for the bill not testifying. Dr. Amber Davis, Texas campaign to rent teen pregnancy and unplanned pregnancy.

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Show her for the bill not testifying.

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Mora Mora Montoya, Texas campaign to prevent teen and unplanned pregnancy.

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third one to charm. Come on up.

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My name is Myra Montoya and I am for Bill 1373

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and I'm here basically just to kind of tell you guys about my personal story.

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And for the record, I have you registered for Texas Campaign Entertainment,

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teen pregnancy and unplanned pregnancy and yourself correct.

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Yes sir.

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Okay go ahead.

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Okay, I'm just here to tell you guys my personal story on how this bill would have helped me

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in my story. So at 13 years old I became pregnant and had my daughter at 14

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years old. So there I was 14-year-old not being able to get a job not being

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able to you know get my driver's license my mother had to do everything for me.

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At that point I you know decided you know birth control would probably be a good

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ideal for me. So I asked my mother if I could get on birth control and she told me no.

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Six weeks later, I found myself in another situation, pregnant. Again, my daughter was

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through and sold and at that point I was six weeks pregnant. Now, if I would have had

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any type of education at school, anything like that, my second pregnancy would not have happened,

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and along with birth control being the biggest thing.

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So, you know, at that point, you know, pregnant, I'm, you know, I tell my parents, and

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luckily I was able to have my parents support.

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A lot of teenagers don't have that support.

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So not being able to get on birth control, you know, I had no choice but, you know, I had

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my son and so I was 15 years old with two kids and I did not learn about sexual education

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or birth control until I was a parent in a parenting classroom.

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Now, if this bill would have been passed already, I would have been able to get on birth control.

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And actually have the opportunity to plan out how and when I wanted to have another child.

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Eight years later down the road, I'm married, I used birth control and I was able to plan a pregnancy with my husband.

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So on top of that, at 14, 15 years old, I had no idea that you could get pregnant again so quickly.

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I had no idea, you know, what came with it.

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I knew if you had sex, you had a child, but I did not know anything else besides that.

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So if this bill would have been passed, it would have changed our lives tremendously.

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And, you know, given me an opportunity, not only to make decisions for my child,

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but also to make decisions for myself, because even though my mother had her best intentions,

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I would have liked to get on breast control and decide when that would have happened.

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Yes, go ahead to your getting.

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I don't have a question, Mr. Chairman, but I just wanted to say to you thank you for your courage

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and coming and telling your story because I know it's probably very difficult, but it will have a positive impact on the lives of other people.

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Members, any other questions? Yes, Mr. Fraud.

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And one of the reasons I'm so passionate about this work is because I mean, I come from the same culture.

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And so I totally understand, my mom was similarly opposed, it's our faith, and that kind of thing in it.

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And anyway, we had some, the results in our family were that we had some births that were probably for people that were too young to have them.

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And the children, ultimately, are who suffered.

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I mean, they ended up going to multiple elementary schools because of the poverty and those issues and such.

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But so anyway, I just want to piggyback onto what Chair Giddings was saying, but thank you for coming.

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Members, any other questions?

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00:24:57,220 --> 00:24:59,460
Ms. Montaulio, thank you for being here for the testimony.

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I'm going to call back up, Kelly McBeth.

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00:25:11,040 --> 00:25:37,960
Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and Vice Chairman Giddings. My name is Kelly McBeth, and I'm testifying in favor of HB 1373 by Chairman Davis. I'm usually here to drop cards on energy-related bills. I don't usually testify, but today I'm representing the Texas campaign to prevent teen pregnancy as their ward chair. At the campaign, we have one goal, one solid goal, and that is

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to eliminate unplanned teen pregnancy in the state of Texas.

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Here's what concerns us.

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Texas ranks number five in unintended teen pregnancies.

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And nationally, Texas ranks number one in repeat teen births.

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This is costing our great state $1.1 billion each year

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in increased public health care, child welfare,

326
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and criminal justice costs.

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HB 1373 will begin to address this costly problem.

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Texas is only one of two states that requires unmarried teen mothers to secure parental consent for their own reproductive health care.

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To be clear, we are talking about young women, young unmarried mothers, who've chosen to parent their children.

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Interestingly, if they were married, these young girls, it wouldn't matter if they were

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15 or 21 simply by marriage, the law gives them the authority over their reproductive

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health care.

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But these young women acknowledged legally as adults by the state when it comes to medical

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care for their babies are still treated as children by the state when it comes to their own

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reproductive health.

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We are still requiring them to obtain consent from a parent for their own birth control.

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The truth is teen child bearing is usually both a cause and consequence of poverty.

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We know that 60% of teen moms drop out of high school when they become parents and fewer

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than 2% of them will earn a college degree by their 30th birthday.

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Children of teen moms are three times more likely to become teen parents themselves,

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growing a system of generational poverty, the cost of which Texas taxpayers bear.

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Last year, Texas Medicaid paid for just under 5,000 repeat teen births, where babies were

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born to teen mothers who already had one or more children.

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Medical best practice is to provide adolescent mothers with a long-acting reversible contraceptive

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before they leave the hospital.

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This bill makes this possible for teen moms to take advantage of this best practice.

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00:27:57,200 --> 00:28:01,820
Last fall, the Texas campaign and partnership with the Houston Endowment commissioned a

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Baselese poll to determine the level of interest in this issue.

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And what we found was that 60 percent of respondents favored allowing females under the age of 18 to have a child and are able to make health care decisions for that child to make their own decision about contraception without having to get the consent of their parents.

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78% of those respondents agree that the state should do more to prevent teenage pregnancies

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and to reduce these costs since pregnancies and births among young people under the age

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of 20 cost taxes over $1 billion.

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Members of the solution where you're proposing an HB 1373 is preemptive.

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It would allow an unmarried teen mom to consent to her own reproductive health care without

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out obtaining parental consent.

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The law would affect a fairly small population of young women but could have significant impact

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on the lives of these young women and could reduce our distinction of being the state that

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is number one in repeat unplanned pregnancies.

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It is about preventing more birds to young mothers, many of whom who have dropped out of school,

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have no source of income and no support system.

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and are not likely to effectively parent multiple children.

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But not only that, these are young women who with the chance to educate themselves

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could become great contributors to our state economy as teachers and researchers

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and engineers and designers and writers.

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Many of us make mistakes as teens from which we are lucky to escape unharmed.

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Let's give these moms who aren't as lucky as some of us

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a chance to turn their lives in a better, healthier direction for themselves and their children.

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Thank you for your testimony, members, any questions?

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00:29:52,000 --> 00:29:56,800
Once again, I have you test on it on behalf of Texas Campaigns for preventing

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pregnancy in yourself test upon fall of the bill.

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00:29:59,580 --> 00:29:59,920
Yes, sir.

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00:30:00,000 --> 00:30:03,000
Thank you very much. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Nicole Hudgens.

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Nicole Hudgens here.

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00:30:09,900 --> 00:30:25,300
I'm showing her Nicole Hudgens. Did not testify against the bill. Taxes values themselves. Okay. Is it her? Is this you? Okay. Well, come on up.

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00:30:44,280 --> 00:30:50,620
Thank you. Hello. My name is Nicole Hudgens. I'm the policy analyst for Texas values. And I'm speaking

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today in opposition of 1373.

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Taking contraceptives involves medical risks and minors should not be taking these risks

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without parental supervision.

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What's interesting about HB1373 is that it specifically includes any FDA-approved method

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of contraception.

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According to the FDA's website, the first listed method of birth control is sterilization.

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00:31:19,100 --> 00:31:25,820
There are many risks again that come with contraception, including heart attack, stroke, pelvic

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inflammatory disease, ectopic pregnancy, severe infection, ovarian cysts, and others.

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00:31:32,540 --> 00:31:38,440
In addition, this bill allows for minors of any age to use methods of abortion and emergency

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00:31:38,440 --> 00:31:39,440
contraception.

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But even more importantly, I'd like to share with you a story of a young woman named Erica

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Hawaiian Heart in the words of her mother Karen. I cannot describe how much my husband and I were looking forward to our daughter Erica's home trip home for Thanksgiving.

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When I saw her name come up on my phone on the Monday before I answered with joy, but it was instead her boyfriend, Sean, and this is how our nightmare began.

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We never had a chance to talk to Erica again.

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Our beautiful caring full of life daughter, only 24, had collapsed in her apartment and

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had two heart attacks in the ambulance on the way to the hospital.

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We arrived by our side Tuesday morning, but she was still in a coma.

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One of the first things the doctors asked was whether Erica had been using hormonal contraceptives.

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And when they found out she was using the Nuver ring, they removed it immediately.

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We were shown scans of her lungs which were full of massive blood clots and we were told

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the newver ring was the cause of pulmonary embolisms, heart attacks, and the subsequent

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irreversible brain swelling.

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On Thursday, Thanksgiving, they told us the Erica wasn't coming back.

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She died that day and it absolutely broke our hearts.

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We considered ourselves well-informed people but we didn't know about the newver ring's

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00:32:58,270 --> 00:32:58,610
risks.

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00:32:58,610 --> 00:33:04,510
And we later found out many doctors are not aware of the potential dangers or even the symptoms to look out for.

403
00:33:05,370 --> 00:33:12,990
As we tried to make sense of Eric's death, we learned that the Food and Drug Administration hearings to discuss the concerns about new ring and

404
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Yaz were scheduled two weeks from that Thanksgiving.

405
00:33:17,350 --> 00:33:22,990
Unfortunately, the attorneys involved in that class action lawsuit against Merck did end up settling out of court.

406
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These cases included 3,800 women, 83 of whom had died.

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We never got the jury trial we were promised.

408
00:33:33,450 --> 00:33:37,830
We refused to opt out of the $100 million settlement agreement.

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The only thing that has ever mattered to us is the pursuit of truth in honor and memory

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00:33:44,110 --> 00:33:45,170
of our beloved Erica.

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And so for these reasons, I urge this committee to not put our Texas girls at risk to be able

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to put themselves in this situation without parental supervision.

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So I urge this committee to oppose 1373.

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00:34:00,110 --> 00:34:00,970
Members, questions?

415
00:34:02,390 --> 00:34:03,490
Chair, getting to?

416
00:34:04,170 --> 00:34:06,890
Thank you very much for your testimony, Ms. Huggins.

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00:34:08,550 --> 00:34:17,110
There are risks associated with contraceptives just as there are risks associated with almost any

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00:34:17,110 --> 00:34:19,570
drug that you take, including eye drops.

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And generally, when our physicians prescribe these medications for us, according to the

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literature that we get, they believe that the benefits are greater than the risk.

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00:34:34,130 --> 00:34:44,070
In terms of contraceptives and the risk that they present, I think you would agree that

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that childbirth has its own set of risk associated.

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00:34:50,230 --> 00:34:57,130
It's rare, though, that I think that doing all of this, again, like I said, what this bill

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does, it says, any FDA-approved method.

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A minor can go get without any parental supervision. So anything that a child would go through medically, we would encourage that the parent would be involved in these decisions. And just like in the case of Erica, the doctor looked at her, gave her the maneuvering four months before she died, before months, assuming she didn't have any complications. But then she did. So if we're going to be looking at the public policy for the state, we need to look at getting parents involved before allowing minors to take these risks with

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not knowing. Well, we do think that parents already, that parents should always be involved

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with minus, but in this case, we are talking about a young person, unwed, who already had

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one child, and their parents probably did not participate in that decision to have that

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child. So that person is already acting outside of their parents' authority and acting on

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their own. And what we know today, and particularly when we look at women of color, although this

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00:36:13,650 --> 00:36:20,910
bill is not about women of color, this is about everybody, is that the mortality rate for

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00:36:20,910 --> 00:36:25,610
or African-American women is that of a third-world country.

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It's very, very high in terms of people who actually die in childbirth.

434
00:36:33,510 --> 00:36:39,090
So I think that probably your point is that the risks are always there,

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00:36:39,250 --> 00:36:44,230
but you're suggesting that perhaps the parent ought to be involved in the risk-taking decision.

436
00:36:44,750 --> 00:36:47,750
Well, by enacting this bill, we're increasing the risks.

437
00:36:47,750 --> 00:36:52,770
and you just said, you know, you cited childbirth as a risk, certainly it's a risk,

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but then you're saying we're going to take something of risk that you're based on your hypothetical

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00:36:58,350 --> 00:37:03,030
situation the parent wasn't involved with. You're saying that's even more risky, but then you're

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saying, oh, but other risky behavior, our parent should be involved with. And our argument is that

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regardless, parent should be involved. And as I said in the story of Erica and the many women who

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have died, let's not put those minors at risk for that and let's let those parents be involved,

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take them since the FDA approved method of sterilization where someone's put under anesthesia.

444
00:37:25,930 --> 00:37:30,470
What if the mom knows something about that child being put under anesthesia that the child's

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00:37:30,470 --> 00:37:36,570
not aware of? That's going to put that child in a dangerous situation. And again, we don't believe

446
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that this is in the best interest of minors and that parents should be involved, but this legislation

447
00:37:41,330 --> 00:37:43,130
takes parents out completely.

448
00:37:43,550 --> 00:37:49,410
But generally speaking in terms of contraceptives, I understand what you're saying about Anastasia.

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And I'm happy to pass, I have some information from the FDA on the risks of these as well.

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So I'm happy to pass along that information.

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00:38:00,590 --> 00:38:06,450
And so just to finish my statement, obviously, when we're talking about contraceptives,

452
00:38:06,450 --> 00:38:11,170
We're generally not talking about, um, and it's easier.

453
00:38:11,910 --> 00:38:17,190
No, not under this bill, not under this bill because this says any FDA-approved

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00:38:17,190 --> 00:38:21,490
method and sterilization is the first method that is listed on the birth control,

455
00:38:21,490 --> 00:38:25,990
um, birth control list of the FDA, and that's on the handout.

456
00:38:26,510 --> 00:38:30,370
So your objection is it just limited to sterilization?

457
00:38:30,430 --> 00:38:31,230
Absolutely not.

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00:38:31,510 --> 00:38:34,950
And that includes the new bearing in the instance that I told of Erica's story.

459
00:38:34,950 --> 00:38:41,670
It includes Yaz, which is still on Bayer's website as a drug, so in that case even more

460
00:38:41,670 --> 00:38:42,190
women died.

461
00:38:42,430 --> 00:38:48,130
I believe it was 100 women died, and 6,800 women were seriously injured in that class

462
00:38:48,130 --> 00:38:49,470
action lawsuit as well.

463
00:38:49,970 --> 00:38:59,050
And finally, do you have the statistics on women and females who die in childbirth as well

464
00:38:59,050 --> 00:39:03,550
as you have the ones that I'd be happy to look at that information.

465
00:39:03,550 --> 00:39:12,690
But childbirth versus we're allowing our child to take the risk without parental supervision is what we're looking at in this specific legislation.

466
00:39:13,030 --> 00:39:19,130
And again, we would have to urge that you oppose this legislation, it completely takes the parents out and does put minors at risk.

467
00:39:19,330 --> 00:39:20,790
Thank you for your testimony.

468
00:39:22,820 --> 00:39:27,020
Is your organization against birth control period?

469
00:39:27,020 --> 00:39:38,580
We don't have a position on birth control, but we do have a major problem with the legislature allowing minors to be able to make these decisions with risks like this without any parental supervision.

470
00:39:39,520 --> 00:39:50,080
You know, some of these girls really don't have access to that, and that's one of the challenges that there's not a parent engaged as your group against traditional birth control pills.

471
00:39:50,080 --> 00:39:56,420
you seem to be very against some of these procedures that may require an

472
00:39:56,420 --> 00:39:59,980
the season of the things, but both control peels that

473
00:40:00,000 --> 00:40:29,980
As a lot of teenage girls take for acne, are you opposed, are you opposed to that? I'm saying that our main point is that parents should be involved when miners are making a stir. I love for your group to bring some positive solutions to how we take care of these girls. Because what I see session after session, I've never seen y'all advance positive solutions for these kids that are in these terrible situations. Bring us something. It's actually positive. You're good at bringing us what's

474
00:40:29,980 --> 00:40:33,360
you're against. Come and tell us how we're going to help these young ladies. That's what

475
00:40:33,360 --> 00:40:38,580
I'd like to hear. And I'm happy to do that. You haven't done it since I've been here.

476
00:40:38,740 --> 00:40:43,140
Since we've promoted, since we've promoted protecting pregnancy resource centers, since we've

477
00:40:43,140 --> 00:40:48,280
promoted a stay on this bill. Okay, but I'd love to see you bring us positive solutions

478
00:40:48,280 --> 00:40:54,100
which have been shortcoming. Okay. And in the meantime, the government goes, I want to call

479
00:40:54,100 --> 00:40:57,380
the next witness and I appreciate you being here. All right. Thank you, sir. Thank you

480
00:40:57,380 --> 00:40:57,800
Very much.

481
00:40:58,400 --> 00:40:59,100
Ted Hale?

482
00:41:07,600 --> 00:41:13,280
Hi, thank you, Representative Cook, and committee members, for giving me an opportunity to speak.

483
00:41:15,160 --> 00:41:20,260
I'll try to be brief, and just for the record, we need to know who you are.

484
00:41:20,400 --> 00:41:22,600
Are you representing your position on the bill, okay?

485
00:41:22,640 --> 00:41:22,920
Yes, sir.

486
00:41:23,200 --> 00:41:24,360
Yeah, so I'll try to be brief.

487
00:41:24,840 --> 00:41:29,920
My name is Dr. Ted Hale, I'm a practicing obstetrician gynecologist and

488
00:41:30,420 --> 00:41:32,420
also have my master's in public health.

489
00:41:32,420 --> 00:41:36,560
I'm the Director of Reproductive Health for People's Community Clinic.

490
00:41:36,840 --> 00:41:41,760
I founded a teen pregnancy clinic there in 1996.

491
00:41:42,540 --> 00:41:46,640
So we've seen tens of thousands of pregnancies over the past couple of decades.

492
00:41:47,560 --> 00:41:55,660
I'm here to voice my vigorous support for this bill on behalf of the Texas campaign to prevent teen pregnancy.

493
00:41:55,660 --> 00:41:59,520
I have you testify on behalf of yourself.

494
00:41:59,640 --> 00:42:00,660
And on behalf of myself.

495
00:42:01,020 --> 00:42:01,420
No.

496
00:42:01,820 --> 00:42:03,980
You can only testify on behalf of yourself,

497
00:42:04,120 --> 00:42:05,280
because that's how you restored for.

498
00:42:05,420 --> 00:42:07,080
Oh, I'm sorry, I must have misread you, sir.

499
00:42:07,380 --> 00:42:09,200
Happy to testify on behalf of myself.

500
00:42:10,960 --> 00:42:14,940
Okay, so I'll be as brief as possible,

501
00:42:14,940 --> 00:42:19,060
and I'm really happy to answer questions.

502
00:42:19,420 --> 00:42:22,540
First, to Representative Giddings Point.

503
00:42:22,540 --> 00:42:28,060
Pregnancy has been shown to be about eight times more lethal than the birth control pill.

504
00:42:29,540 --> 00:42:35,540
As you mentioned, this has been well studied in the third world, not debatable from a

505
00:42:35,540 --> 00:42:41,320
scientific point of view, contraception absolutely much safer than childbirth, no question.

506
00:42:42,200 --> 00:42:51,560
As far as your statement about, or the previous speaker statement about sterilization, the

507
00:42:51,560 --> 00:42:56,680
The state of Texas does not allow women under the age of 21 to be sterilized with federal funds.

508
00:42:57,520 --> 00:43:03,540
So this bill, as you know, is about teenagers who have already given birth,

509
00:43:04,060 --> 00:43:08,700
who want to do the right thing and not become pregnant again so they can get on with their lives.

510
00:43:09,340 --> 00:43:13,460
Sterilizations are red herring, the state doesn't pay for that under the age of 21.

511
00:43:13,460 --> 00:43:17,280
I appreciated

512
00:43:20,510 --> 00:43:24,830
what you said Representative Cook about bringing something positive rather than something negative.

513
00:43:25,290 --> 00:43:32,250
I've seen probably 7,000 pregnant teens over the course of my career.

514
00:43:33,050 --> 00:43:35,290
And was it MIRA? Yeah.

515
00:43:37,210 --> 00:43:43,850
MIRA, I didn't take care of MIRA but she's representative of one of those thousands of unique stories.

516
00:43:43,850 --> 00:43:51,130
in each story is unique of course but there are common threads and the common threads are often

517
00:43:51,130 --> 00:43:57,510
exactly what you said. Poverty, sometimes lack of good parental support to help with a good

518
00:43:57,510 --> 00:44:04,690
decision that the child really might want to make and a general cluelessness about what their

519
00:44:04,690 --> 00:44:08,570
options might be to have a better life for themselves.

520
00:44:09,530 --> 00:44:11,850
I talked to Maira briefly.

521
00:44:12,330 --> 00:44:16,590
She had two kids as a teenager.

522
00:44:17,230 --> 00:44:22,890
She told me, tearfully, it was incredibly hard for her with a second kid, but with the

523
00:44:22,890 --> 00:44:27,350
support of her husband and the support of her family, she was able to go to nursing school

524
00:44:27,350 --> 00:44:34,590
and is now a nurse employed, has a great stable relationship and she did that through the

525
00:44:34,590 --> 00:44:42,310
support of our family and community, of course, but also some social service programs out there and job training programs and access to contraception.

526
00:44:42,750 --> 00:44:50,310
As y'all have noted, this is a milieu and we need to attack this problem from a bunch of different angles and this is one very important angle.

527
00:44:50,670 --> 00:44:53,650
So I know I've been rambling, I'll be quiet, happy to entertain any questions.

528
00:44:53,650 --> 00:44:54,410
Any questions?

529
00:44:55,890 --> 00:44:56,450
Yes.

530
00:44:56,570 --> 00:44:57,210
Representative Patty.

531
00:44:58,010 --> 00:44:59,370
Thank you, Dr. For being here.

532
00:45:00,000 --> 00:45:29,940
So in your expert opinion, if we were to talk about medical best practices, and based on the clientele that you see, and particularly related to this system, what do you recommend to those who find themselves in a situation? Okay, you know, I'm a doctor. Sometimes that can be long-winded. I'll try to be as brief as possible. First, I would say the best would be not to get in this situation because as we know, 82% of teen pregnant

533
00:45:34,420 --> 00:45:42,940
So if we can give contraception to that population of people, we will reduce the abortion rate significantly.

534
00:45:43,560 --> 00:45:51,360
It's been shown that for every 100 contraceptive devices that the state provides, one abortion is prevented.

535
00:45:51,920 --> 00:45:56,340
So the best way in my mind, from a medical practice point, and that was your question,

536
00:45:56,340 --> 00:45:58,460
and the best way to decrease the abortion rate

537
00:45:59,050 --> 00:46:00,820
is to provide contraception.

538
00:46:01,340 --> 00:46:03,180
Now, your question was, what do we do

539
00:46:03,180 --> 00:46:06,080
when someone's already unfortunately faced with a pregnancy?

540
00:46:06,820 --> 00:46:08,480
As a previous speaker mentioned,

541
00:46:08,860 --> 00:46:11,400
the, by and large, no question,

542
00:46:11,620 --> 00:46:15,760
most effective form of contraception

543
00:46:15,760 --> 00:46:18,060
is long-acting reversible contraception,

544
00:46:18,120 --> 00:46:19,140
which is called LARC.

545
00:46:20,540 --> 00:46:22,580
These are IUDs or implants,

546
00:46:23,040 --> 00:46:25,480
neither of which, by the way, have estrogen in them

547
00:46:25,480 --> 00:46:31,900
so they wouldn't cause blood clots and the other horrors that Erica's family went through.

548
00:46:32,180 --> 00:46:34,540
Incredibly safe devices and long-acting.

549
00:46:35,300 --> 00:46:41,300
LARC has been shown to decrease the repeat teen pregnancy rate by something like 80%.

550
00:46:41,800 --> 00:46:48,060
LARC is largely available in Colorado. The state had an initiative to provide it.

551
00:46:48,640 --> 00:46:53,980
Almost free of cost to all of their residents and it had all of the expected consequences.

552
00:46:53,980 --> 00:47:03,300
is huge drops in the abortion rate, huge drops in unplanned pregnancy rates and especially unplanned teen pregnancy rates.

553
00:47:04,040 --> 00:47:17,340
So my answer to your question would be effective counseling about LARC tied with all of the effective job training, social service and

554
00:47:17,340 --> 00:47:21,140
other supports that I think Representative Cook was referring to earlier.

555
00:47:21,820 --> 00:47:29,260
And also, again, being an expert, there's been discussion about risk associated, so what

556
00:47:29,260 --> 00:47:31,940
that particular option can you speak to risk?

557
00:47:35,380 --> 00:47:40,740
So in regards to long-acting contraception, yeah.

558
00:47:41,370 --> 00:47:46,680
So there are two forms of long-acting contraception, IUDs, which, of course, go into the uterus

559
00:47:46,680 --> 00:47:49,640
and implants, which are called an x-planon,

560
00:47:49,640 --> 00:47:51,140
that usually go into the forearm.

561
00:47:52,920 --> 00:47:56,460
The implants don't contain estrogen,

562
00:47:56,500 --> 00:48:00,800
which is the chemical that causes the pulmonary embolism

563
00:48:00,800 --> 00:48:02,940
and blood clots that the previous speaker mentioned.

564
00:48:03,160 --> 00:48:05,120
So implants incredibly safe.

565
00:48:05,580 --> 00:48:07,940
Like any medicine, there are side effects,

566
00:48:08,200 --> 00:48:11,920
such as bleeding, or spotting, menstrual cramps sometimes.

567
00:48:12,480 --> 00:48:15,240
So irritating side effects, for sure, for some women,

568
00:48:15,240 --> 00:48:20,500
but no deaths, period, incredibly safe compared to childbirth.

569
00:48:21,140 --> 00:48:23,500
IUDs, also incredibly safe.

570
00:48:23,800 --> 00:48:31,700
There is a little bit of stigma still in this day about the effects of old generation

571
00:48:31,700 --> 00:48:36,300
IUDs from 30 or 40 years ago which did have an infection risk.

572
00:48:36,760 --> 00:48:40,920
These days, that risk is minimal with modern intrauterine devices.

573
00:48:41,440 --> 00:48:41,620
All right.

574
00:48:41,840 --> 00:48:42,220
Thank you, Dr.

575
00:48:44,240 --> 00:48:45,460
Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

576
00:48:46,620 --> 00:48:56,360
Dr. How many patients have you had that were teens that could not talk to a parent

577
00:48:57,060 --> 00:48:58,540
because the parent was unavailable?

578
00:48:59,060 --> 00:49:02,960
Oh, the parents were hostile to the child.

579
00:49:05,590 --> 00:49:07,710
What do you see there?

580
00:49:08,290 --> 00:49:08,530
Yeah.

581
00:49:09,370 --> 00:49:13,110
So I guess, so I work in a federally qualified center.

582
00:49:13,110 --> 00:49:27,450
So, I have a skewed sample. All of my patients are poor and would you agree with the misgivings assertion that the majority of these children are going to be from and with previous witnesses from poor backgrounds?

583
00:49:29,150 --> 00:49:42,970
Yes, and again, I don't want to take up too much time but think about it. We're talking in general terms, we're talking about very young women who are having sex.

584
00:49:42,970 --> 00:49:48,390
most I've got a 12 year old daughter so this affects me too. I don't think it's

585
00:49:48,390 --> 00:49:53,830
healthy for my 12 year old to be having sex at age 12. I really hope she doesn't

586
00:49:53,830 --> 00:49:59,850
do that and I hope that I can be a good parent and kind of help her avoid making

587
00:50:00,000 --> 00:50:12,200
I'm not saying those choices for herself, not for any religious reason. I just don't think it's usually good for a very young woman to have sex. It's not enjoyable. It's not good for emotionally and other reasons.

588
00:50:12,200 --> 00:50:23,100
So, the fact that someone is pregnant in their young teens is a red flag, we know that on

589
00:50:23,100 --> 00:50:31,900
a population basis, I'm not, I'm not implying that any individual fits this profile, but

590
00:50:31,900 --> 00:50:38,980
on a population basis, yeah, over 70% come from a single parent home.

591
00:50:38,980 --> 00:50:46,100
As you heard earlier, 40% of teen pregnancies are the product of a previous teen pregnancy.

592
00:50:46,420 --> 00:50:50,920
So there is this intergenerational transmission of imperfect decision-making.

593
00:50:51,180 --> 00:50:56,020
So yes, I would say the vast majority of women who find themselves confronted within

594
00:50:56,740 --> 00:51:04,460
this situation are in an extremely challenging social and economic situation where they're

595
00:51:04,460 --> 00:51:12,100
We're not necessarily going to get the benefit of the traditional two-parent upper middle-class household.

596
00:51:15,720 --> 00:51:17,140
There was any other questions.

597
00:51:18,540 --> 00:51:24,440
So once again, your testimony would be that some of these young ladies find themselves in a situation

598
00:51:24,440 --> 00:51:30,240
where they do not have parental guidance or parental participation.

599
00:51:31,320 --> 00:51:32,240
Yes, right there.

600
00:51:32,480 --> 00:51:34,060
It was taken for granted that exists.

601
00:51:34,380 --> 00:51:35,960
And these young ladies don't have that.

602
00:51:35,960 --> 00:51:42,160
Right. Exactly. And they're put in the position of having to make that decision, the best decision for themselves.

603
00:51:42,720 --> 00:51:48,800
Incidentally, I should point out that they are legally able to make decisions for their children.

604
00:51:49,360 --> 00:51:54,880
So they've had their child. They are the legal gardening of that child.

605
00:51:55,000 --> 00:52:01,340
They can decide whether that child gets cancer treatment, vaccines, all sorts of things.

606
00:52:01,600 --> 00:52:03,700
So they're allowed to make decisions for their child.

607
00:52:03,700 --> 00:52:06,900
Well, we're just asking that they be allowed to make decisions for themselves as well.

608
00:52:07,100 --> 00:52:08,840
Okay, thank you very much for your testimony.

609
00:52:10,320 --> 00:52:17,100
Is there anyone else that signed up for or against House Bill 1373?

610
00:52:17,500 --> 00:52:20,880
If not, we're calling Chairman Davis to close on a bill.

611
00:52:23,980 --> 00:52:25,400
Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

612
00:52:25,680 --> 00:52:30,840
I feel like this committee really understands this issue.

613
00:52:30,840 --> 00:52:45,520
I want to, you know, to remind everyone again like you've heard that this is a young woman that has already had a child and all this bill is doing is to allow her to have access to birth control.

614
00:52:46,160 --> 00:52:57,920
And when you hear words like sterilization, I know that that seems, you know, like an awful option for, let's say, a 13-year-old.

615
00:52:57,920 --> 00:53:03,960
And in fact, it is, it is such an awful option that it is not legal as you have heard.

616
00:53:05,180 --> 00:53:12,020
You could Medicaid funds will not pay for a sterilization of a young woman under the age of 21.

617
00:53:12,080 --> 00:53:16,160
And why that matters is because these young women are on Medicaid.

618
00:53:16,600 --> 00:53:19,460
So sterilization is not going to be an option.

619
00:53:19,720 --> 00:53:24,080
And this bill does not in any way change the standard of care.

620
00:53:24,080 --> 00:53:37,260
I cannot imagine that any physician working within the standard of care would seek sterilization as an option of birth control for a young teen mom.

621
00:53:38,340 --> 00:53:42,680
I just, I don't think that that is even something that I can take seriously.

622
00:53:43,580 --> 00:53:48,860
And you've heard about the argument that, well, we need to keep the parents involved.

623
00:53:49,040 --> 00:53:53,080
We're way past that point when you've got a 14-year-old pregnant.

624
00:53:53,080 --> 00:54:19,680
And so with that, I feel like this committee knows what the right thing to do is and I think that by the fact that my colleague Mary Gonzales has a similar bill that this is not a partisan issue, this is an issue that both Republicans and Democrats can support, it is just good policy and a common sense, so I would ask for your favorable consideration.

625
00:54:21,040 --> 00:54:27,500
Just by the way, the one witness that testified against, have they come to you and tried to work with you on this at all?

626
00:54:28,200 --> 00:54:29,000
Absolutely not.

627
00:54:29,360 --> 00:54:29,600
Okay.

628
00:54:30,040 --> 00:54:30,880
Thank you very much.

629
00:54:31,180 --> 00:54:35,180
This time to Chair's intent to leave House Bill 1378 pending.

630
00:54:35,180 --> 00:54:44,060
The chair is going to take up House Bill 330 and call on Reption Consultants to explain

631
00:54:44,060 --> 00:54:44,460
her bill.

632
00:54:44,620 --> 00:54:51,000
And just a reminder, folks, if you're wanting to testify, you need to go sign up with

633
00:54:51,000 --> 00:54:57,100
our witness affirmation program, those docs are available throughout the Capitol.

634
00:54:57,760 --> 00:54:59,980
So, once again, this time, if you want to, if you're ready to lay down,

635
00:55:00,000 --> 00:55:29,300
Thank you, Chairman. Stayjavu and State Affairs. H. Bill 330, which I'm proud is really nearly similar to the previous bill. But I'm not going to repeat a lot of what Chairman Davis already said. But this bill is about health care women and children, because it has the highest rate of teen pregnancy. It impacts educational and positive health incomes. It's a common sense solution, as previously mentioned. These young women have the ability, or have the right to make decisions about their children.

636
00:55:29,300 --> 00:55:31,700
and brain surgery, cancer treatment, but they can't make

637
00:55:31,700 --> 00:55:34,840
decisions about their own body, and their own body also impacts

638
00:55:34,840 --> 00:55:36,340
the health of their children.

639
00:55:36,800 --> 00:55:39,360
We know that when a woman has a teen mom,

640
00:55:39,680 --> 00:55:44,020
has a repeat teen pregnancy, it impacts the educational outcomes

641
00:55:44,020 --> 00:55:46,680
of their child and the health outcomes of their child.

642
00:55:46,880 --> 00:55:49,500
So with that, I'm going to let some witnesses testify

643
00:55:49,500 --> 00:55:50,760
and see if you have any questions.

644
00:55:50,860 --> 00:55:51,440
There's any questions?

645
00:55:52,100 --> 00:55:52,240
Any questions?

646
00:55:52,480 --> 00:55:54,580
I reserve the right to close.

647
00:55:55,200 --> 00:55:58,160
Catherine Miller, President Texas Freedom Network,

648
00:55:58,160 --> 00:55:59,460
here to speak for the bill.

649
00:56:03,690 --> 00:56:04,410
Good afternoon.

650
00:56:05,090 --> 00:56:08,010
I am Kathy Miller, president of the Texas Freedom Network.

651
00:56:09,290 --> 00:56:14,110
And the Texas Freedom Network is also the member of the Trust Respect Access Coalition,

652
00:56:14,110 --> 00:56:18,230
which is a broad coalition of diverse organizations working to support policies.

653
00:56:18,430 --> 00:56:19,450
Just his reminder.

654
00:56:19,990 --> 00:56:21,010
Testifying on behalf.

655
00:56:21,410 --> 00:56:22,890
Texas Freedom Network.

656
00:56:23,050 --> 00:56:23,550
That's all I got.

657
00:56:23,770 --> 00:56:23,990
Okay.

658
00:56:24,170 --> 00:56:25,570
But I can tell you what I'm a part of, right?

659
00:56:26,890 --> 00:56:27,170
Okay.

660
00:56:27,430 --> 00:56:27,910
I won't.

661
00:56:29,530 --> 00:56:30,470
I'm happy not to.

662
00:56:30,470 --> 00:56:37,950
We support House Bill 330 because it allows young parents to make the reproductive decisions

663
00:56:37,950 --> 00:56:43,550
that they feel are best for them and because it represents common sense legislation to help

664
00:56:43,550 --> 00:56:48,530
lower the high number of unintended teen pregnancies in Texas and honestly it represents

665
00:56:48,530 --> 00:56:55,850
the kind of positive solution that you were asking about, Chairman Cook, where I believe all

666
00:56:55,850 --> 00:57:01,110
of us can agree on something that makes this much sense. It actually seems a little bit

667
00:57:01,110 --> 00:57:07,030
crazy that a mother, whether a teen or not who is trusted with making healthcare decisions

668
00:57:07,030 --> 00:57:13,170
for her child or children, would not be trusted to make her own healthcare decisions when

669
00:57:13,170 --> 00:57:19,650
it comes to reproductive healthcare and using contraception. This just allows her to plan and

670
00:57:19,650 --> 00:57:21,310
space, her family, right?

671
00:57:22,870 --> 00:57:24,570
The legislation shouldn't be controversial.

672
00:57:25,050 --> 00:57:28,610
We should all be able to agree that we want to reduce unintended pregnancy.

673
00:57:29,610 --> 00:57:34,430
And we want to allow teens who are already mothers to consent to their own health care.

674
00:57:35,320 --> 00:57:40,090
It's worth noting that our state consistently has one of the nation's highest teen pregnancy

675
00:57:40,090 --> 00:57:43,130
rates, the highest repeat teen birth rate.

676
00:57:43,530 --> 00:57:48,710
The teen births cost the taxpayers millions if not billions of dollars annually in health

677
00:57:48,710 --> 00:57:53,750
care, foster care, and lost tax revenue and loss of health and life of young women.

678
00:57:54,090 --> 00:57:59,170
I am the parent of two daughters. One just made it out of this bill's coverage. She just

679
00:57:59,170 --> 00:58:05,270
turned 18. But I've raised teenagers. And as much as I would like to believe that they would

680
00:58:05,270 --> 00:58:10,410
come to me and talk to me about contraception and about their own reproductive health care,

681
00:58:10,650 --> 00:58:16,230
I've been a teenage girl. And I know how hard that was for me with my parents. And we have an

682
00:58:16,230 --> 00:58:20,770
open relationship and we talked about these things, I had all the benefits you could possibly

683
00:58:20,770 --> 00:58:27,010
imagine growing up. So any complications might make it very difficult. Just think of how uncomfortable

684
00:58:27,010 --> 00:58:32,270
many of you are when we're talking about sex education or contraception in your committee room.

685
00:58:32,830 --> 00:58:36,530
Multiply that by about a thousand when you're a teenage girl trying to talk to your mother or your

686
00:58:36,530 --> 00:58:45,050
father about something like this. We haven't heard on the previous bill much about the future of

687
00:58:45,050 --> 00:58:51,970
these young women, being able to plan and space your family, being able to use contraception

688
00:58:51,970 --> 00:58:57,710
to not have more than one child as a teenager, improves a woman's prospects for graduating

689
00:58:57,710 --> 00:59:02,110
from high school, for getting a further education, for having a job, for earning an income,

690
00:59:02,250 --> 00:59:04,070
and for supporting her family in her future.

691
00:59:04,630 --> 00:59:11,770
This bill represents a positive solution for the potential of young teen mothers in the

692
00:59:11,770 --> 00:59:12,570
state of Texas.

693
00:59:13,230 --> 00:59:18,630
We trust teen parents to make their own health care decisions when it comes to addiction.

694
00:59:19,370 --> 00:59:22,950
We trust incarcerated teenagers to make their own health care decisions.

695
00:59:23,430 --> 00:59:27,230
We trust married teen mothers to consent to their own contraception.

696
00:59:27,530 --> 00:59:35,090
It is only common sense to trust unmarried teen mothers to consent to their own contraception.

697
00:59:35,510 --> 00:59:39,870
By passing HB 330, this committee can take an important first step in addressing

698
00:59:39,870 --> 00:59:42,790
unintended pregnancy, I strongly urge you to support this bill.

699
00:59:43,170 --> 00:59:44,190
Members, any questions?

700
00:59:44,850 --> 00:59:47,490
No, and Catherine, what's going on just for the record?

701
00:59:48,450 --> 00:59:49,610
Texas Freedom Network.

702
00:59:49,750 --> 00:59:55,090
No, but you identified yourself as Kathy Mill, when you came up, but your own is Catherine Miller.

703
00:59:55,470 --> 00:59:56,530
I am Catherine Miller.

704
00:59:56,890 --> 00:59:59,830
You got it, okay, you just have to do all this for exactly right.

705
01:00:00,000 --> 01:00:02,860
Thank you so much. You're welcome. Susan Hayes.

706
01:00:08,540 --> 01:00:35,120
Been a while, Susan. Yeah, good to see you again, Mr. Chairman. And I'll be brief, because I know you'll got a full house tonight. My name is Susan Hayes. I have for the last 15 years represented teenagers who are facing unintended pregnancies. And I urge you to pass this bill precisely for the reasons Ms. Miller just said. It is logically absurd. It is bad health care policy to let teenagers who are already mothers not access contraception.

707
01:00:35,120 --> 01:00:41,280
And I'll just give you a brief idea about the kinds of real lives some of these girls live.

708
01:00:41,720 --> 01:00:47,240
I had a client just early last January who had a child who wanted that first child when

709
01:00:47,240 --> 01:00:48,680
she became pregnant as a teenager.

710
01:00:49,460 --> 01:00:54,920
She became pregnant again, not because she didn't want, you know, take responsibility, because

711
01:00:54,920 --> 01:00:58,480
she lived out in the middle of a country where she had no access to a title 10 clinic where

712
01:00:58,480 --> 01:01:00,960
she could get effective contraception.

713
01:01:01,340 --> 01:01:02,640
She had no transportation.

714
01:01:03,340 --> 01:01:08,140
She had already graduated high school with the 4.0 because she was sharp as she could be.

715
01:01:09,220 --> 01:01:10,520
And there she was pregnant again.

716
01:01:10,700 --> 01:01:13,660
That could have been prevented and abortion could have been prevented.

717
01:01:14,460 --> 01:01:18,300
And also say what makes me very sad for some of these kids is how much the state has failed

718
01:01:18,300 --> 01:01:18,560
them.

719
01:01:18,880 --> 01:01:22,840
I know Mr. Chairman, you've heard me say before we set them up to fail by not giving them

720
01:01:22,840 --> 01:01:27,300
access to medically-based sex ed and not giving them access to effective contraception.

721
01:01:27,860 --> 01:01:30,780
And then be surprised that we have such high-team pregnancy rates.

722
01:01:30,780 --> 01:02:00,180
with this young woman she had while she was pregnant with her first child was living with her father who was dealing drugs and she testified in court she had called CPS six times on her own father because she wanted a safe place to live and she got nothing and she was still managing to make it on her own and for the lack of access to good contraception there she was had another barrier to her goal of spacing her children living a better life going to college, getting education.

723
01:02:00,720 --> 01:02:08,420
where, if you look at this economically, should be a taxpayer instead of someone who's having to access state services for the rest of her and her child's life.

724
01:02:09,340 --> 01:02:11,860
And with that, there's any questions? That's all I have to say, Mr. Chairman.

725
01:02:12,020 --> 01:02:14,080
There is any question? Yes, sir.

726
01:02:16,520 --> 01:02:26,380
Basically, I think what we have heard, and as hard as it might be for some of us to understand,

727
01:02:26,380 --> 01:02:33,200
and a lot of these women know nothing about reproduction.

728
01:02:33,520 --> 01:02:41,260
We just heard earlier somebody tell their own heart-breaking story, and it's a wonder

729
01:02:41,260 --> 01:02:47,720
that they didn't become a statistics because basically only about 2% of these people who

730
01:02:47,720 --> 01:02:52,540
get caught up in these circumstances go on to be able to earn a college degree.

731
01:02:52,540 --> 01:02:57,680
You know, some I'm sure do other things, but that's a startling statistic.

732
01:02:58,180 --> 01:03:08,960
But I think the most revealing thing about that for some of us is that it really isn't

733
01:03:08,960 --> 01:03:15,840
all about Aussie and Harriet anymore, that there are students or young people out there

734
01:03:15,840 --> 01:03:23,500
that don't have anybody to really advise them on these kinds of matters.

735
01:03:23,880 --> 01:03:28,640
A witness said if they had had some advice on these kinds of matters,

736
01:03:28,980 --> 01:03:33,140
probably the second pregnancy would not have occurred.

737
01:03:33,520 --> 01:03:36,860
And as much as we encourage parental involvement,

738
01:03:37,280 --> 01:03:42,840
I think at some point, Susan, we have to come with the reality,

739
01:03:42,840 --> 01:03:45,880
to the reality that as much as we want it,

740
01:03:46,020 --> 01:03:48,900
it's not always available to these young people

741
01:03:48,900 --> 01:03:50,280
and can you just speak to that?

742
01:03:50,540 --> 01:03:52,120
Just, the parents aren't there.

743
01:03:52,400 --> 01:03:54,960
It's hard to get parental consent when your mother's dead

744
01:03:54,960 --> 01:03:57,740
or is strung out on drugs on the streets somewhere

745
01:03:58,120 --> 01:03:59,180
and your father's in jail.

746
01:04:00,380 --> 01:04:04,560
And that's a very common pattern in the client I represent.

747
01:04:05,080 --> 01:04:06,880
The particular client I just mentioned

748
01:04:06,880 --> 01:04:09,760
to shore up her judicial bypass to abortion case.

749
01:04:09,960 --> 01:04:12,180
I stopped by the courthouse and checked full the files

750
01:04:12,180 --> 01:04:16,620
on her family, strong for my case, but sad for her, her father had just been indicted

751
01:04:16,620 --> 01:04:19,820
for cocaine possession and wouldn't get down anytime soon.

752
01:04:20,760 --> 01:04:22,340
So she had no place to go.

753
01:04:23,140 --> 01:04:26,860
And the same goes for our kids who are in the foster care system.

754
01:04:27,520 --> 01:04:32,600
The foster care system terrifies me for adolescent girls because I've represented them after

755
01:04:32,600 --> 01:04:35,900
they've been in and out of the system and after they've been sexually assaulted in care,

756
01:04:36,480 --> 01:04:39,900
become pregnant from that, or become pregnant because no one's paying attention to them

757
01:04:39,900 --> 01:04:40,840
or engaging with them.

758
01:04:41,300 --> 01:04:45,860
And I imagine the members of this committee are painfully aware that our CPS system is basically

759
01:04:45,860 --> 01:04:48,640
in federal receivership right now with the court and court was Chrissy.

760
01:04:49,680 --> 01:04:53,340
And the judge's findings and the opinion she released last summer had a pretty startling

761
01:04:53,340 --> 01:04:57,800
statistic about those foster care girls, 50% of them, and I may be off the pointer to

762
01:04:57,800 --> 01:04:59,240
on that number so I'm doing this from memory.

763
01:05:00,000 --> 01:05:29,980
Are pregnant by the time they were 19. Of the children from those resulting pregnancies, 70% 70 end up in foster care in short order. And if those mothers, if those teenagers had access to effective contraception, we wouldn't be seeing that kind of perpetuation of human misery because of parents who have failed in a state who's failed them. So a bill like this is intended. And I think will stop some of that human misery. And I think that ought to be

764
01:05:29,980 --> 01:05:37,360
first and foremost, but then secondarily, it reduces the burden on our state in terms

765
01:05:37,360 --> 01:05:46,940
of cost, Medicaid births, and ultimately reduces abortion.

766
01:05:47,240 --> 01:05:47,660
Absolutely.

767
01:05:48,580 --> 01:05:49,000
I'm sure.

768
01:05:49,700 --> 01:05:53,540
It shouldn't surprise you that I could make a lot more money as a lawyer not representing

769
01:05:53,540 --> 01:05:54,460
pregnant teenage girls.

770
01:05:54,740 --> 01:05:56,020
And I'd like to do that.

771
01:05:56,340 --> 01:05:58,440
I'd like to not have as clients.

772
01:05:59,120 --> 01:06:03,920
But there are a lot of kids out there who need help because others have failed them.

773
01:06:04,400 --> 01:06:14,160
And a lot who will take responsibility for themselves will do the right thing by their health care once they're given access to information to education and to consenting to their own reproductive health care.

774
01:06:15,100 --> 01:06:15,940
Thank you so much.

775
01:06:16,420 --> 01:06:17,140
Any other questions?

776
01:06:17,360 --> 01:06:26,780
Thank you. And once again, Susan, I know you never said for, but I'm here on my individual capacity today and it's season haze for the bill for the bill.

777
01:06:26,780 --> 01:06:27,540
Thank you, city.

778
01:06:29,380 --> 01:06:30,800
Reverend Amelia Fulbright.

779
01:06:39,230 --> 01:06:40,110
Thank you, chairman.

780
01:06:41,310 --> 01:06:45,410
Committee, I am here testifying on behalf of myself.

781
01:06:46,890 --> 01:06:50,450
I have been an ordained minister for about 10 years.

782
01:06:51,670 --> 01:06:57,430
In that time, I have worked closely with teenage girls and college students.

783
01:06:57,430 --> 01:06:59,970
Can you go ahead and state for the record your position on behalf of the panel?

784
01:06:59,970 --> 01:07:00,850
I am for the panel.

785
01:07:00,850 --> 01:07:01,650
Thank you very much.

786
01:07:01,770 --> 01:07:02,230
Thank you.

787
01:07:02,230 --> 01:07:02,310
you.

788
01:07:04,790 --> 01:07:11,150
During my ministry, I have made it a priority to include comprehensive sex education

789
01:07:11,150 --> 01:07:19,470
as part of my pastoral care for young people. That may seem like a strange thing for a religious

790
01:07:19,470 --> 01:07:27,470
leader to do, but I have been committed to that in large part because I've learned that

791
01:07:27,470 --> 01:07:36,310
young people, teenagers, don't get the same standard of information about sexuality,

792
01:07:36,910 --> 01:07:44,590
either from their schools or from their parents. And I believe that we as adults

793
01:07:44,590 --> 01:07:51,470
have a moral, ethical, and spiritual responsibility to give young people, including

794
01:07:51,470 --> 01:08:00,390
mothers access to the information and resources they need to make the best possible choices for themselves and their children.

795
01:08:02,680 --> 01:08:10,680
Now, as part of offering comprehensive education to the young people that I've worked with,

796
01:08:10,840 --> 01:08:19,560
I've tried to work with parents as well to empower them to have conversations about sexuality and

797
01:08:19,560 --> 01:08:26,400
birth control with their children. But when parents have not been willing or able to

798
01:08:26,400 --> 01:08:32,400
have those conversations, I myself have talked with young women about their options for

799
01:08:32,400 --> 01:08:42,020
contraception. And as Ms. Miller mentioned, even for teen girls who have good relationships

800
01:08:42,020 --> 01:08:48,860
with their parents, those conversations are often awkward and finding other adults that

801
01:08:48,860 --> 01:08:53,580
they can trust to have those conversations can be really important.

802
01:08:55,820 --> 01:09:01,420
It would be almost redundant for me to mention again how we know that contraception is the

803
01:09:01,420 --> 01:09:07,320
best way to lower teen pregnancy rates and rates of unintended pregnancy in general.

804
01:09:08,960 --> 01:09:11,960
But that really is why we're here today.

805
01:09:14,280 --> 01:09:20,000
And we also know that without access to contraception women are more likely to be trapped

806
01:09:20,000 --> 01:09:24,200
in cycles of poverty that are devastating for them and their children.

807
01:09:24,860 --> 01:09:29,940
To me, that's also a moral, ethical, and spiritual concern.

808
01:09:32,500 --> 01:09:39,940
What I've learned from ten years of working with teenagers and young adults is, try as

809
01:09:39,940 --> 01:09:46,140
we might, we cannot, through legislation or religious instruction, control the reproductive

810
01:09:46,140 --> 01:09:48,400
choices that young people make.

811
01:09:48,400 --> 01:09:55,860
We just can't. Their bodies and their lives are their own, and it is their birth

812
01:09:55,860 --> 01:09:59,720
right as children of God and as American citizens.

813
01:10:00,000 --> 01:10:29,580
To make those decisions for themselves. What we can do in this case through a good bill like this is give them everything they need to make healthy choices. And so I fully support this bill from my vantage point as a Texan, as a clergywoman, and as a mother of a young girl myself. Thank you. Members, questions? It's all right, thank you. Thank you.

814
01:10:30,140 --> 01:10:31,840
The Chair now calls Nicole Hedgens,

815
01:10:37,070 --> 01:10:39,330
did not testify against.

816
01:10:43,680 --> 01:10:45,240
Chair now calls Ted Held,

817
01:10:49,230 --> 01:10:51,810
which show Mr. Held not testified for the bill.

818
01:10:54,720 --> 01:10:55,080
I don't know, Nicole.

819
01:10:57,000 --> 01:10:58,260
Okay, Miss Hedgens,

820
01:11:01,260 --> 01:11:05,180
and we just reiterate that it's the same subject matter, so.

821
01:11:05,560 --> 01:11:07,640
Yes, Sarah, I'll try and keep it a little short of that.

822
01:11:08,160 --> 01:11:08,960
Thank you, perfect, thank you.

823
01:11:12,180 --> 01:11:15,100
Again, my name is Nicole Hedgens, I'm the policy analyst for

824
01:11:15,100 --> 01:11:19,460
Texas values and I'm speaking today in opposition to HB 330.

825
01:11:20,320 --> 01:11:24,540
First, again, this bill as well as a violation of parental rights.

826
01:11:24,940 --> 01:11:29,080
A 15-year-old under state law is still a minor and

827
01:11:29,080 --> 01:11:36,040
parents have the right to know what their child is taking because it can prevent them from injury or even death.

828
01:11:36,800 --> 01:11:41,220
Just because a minor has a child doesn't mean that they should take the place of their own parents.

829
01:11:41,220 --> 01:11:48,060
And parents still have the freedom and the right to be involved in these situations and not be cut off.

830
01:11:49,320 --> 01:11:54,440
In regards to sex ed that's being taught in our schools, we're actually seeing that team birth rates are lowering.

831
01:11:54,740 --> 01:11:56,720
And much of that is due to abstinence education.

832
01:11:57,180 --> 01:12:01,240
And we understand that minors may take contraceptives, but

833
01:12:01,240 --> 01:12:08,140
again, it's a terrible idea to let minors make these medical decisions without parental involvement.

834
01:12:08,840 --> 01:12:25,720
And again, I'll list those risks again that are on the handouts that you'll have that include but not limited to heart attack, stroke, pelvic inflammatory disease, ectopic pregnancy, severe infection, ovarian cysts, and others.

835
01:12:26,260 --> 01:12:31,220
It's not a good idea to let our minors put themselves at risk without parental involvement.

836
01:12:31,220 --> 01:12:35,520
And, again, just to cite a few more statistics, and then I'll be done.

837
01:12:36,200 --> 01:12:41,380
When you look at the incidence of just what happened with Yaz, an FDA-approved contraceptive

838
01:12:41,380 --> 01:12:48,220
method, 6,800 women were injured, and over 100 women died.

839
01:12:48,880 --> 01:12:55,920
And just the new ring, one of many other methods of contraception, 3,000 women were seriously

840
01:12:55,920 --> 01:12:58,100
we injured, and 83 women died.

841
01:12:58,620 --> 01:13:02,660
If we're going to talk about child birth rates, people dying from child birth,

842
01:13:03,020 --> 01:13:10,240
just those two contraceptives cause enough injury that go beyond the mortality rate at its peak in the state.

843
01:13:11,160 --> 01:13:15,540
So for these reasons, I urge this committee to oppose HB330.

844
01:13:15,960 --> 01:13:21,040
Ms. Huggins, thank you, and just to get the record correct, you are also representing yourself.

845
01:13:21,460 --> 01:13:21,780
Yes, sir.

846
01:13:21,920 --> 01:13:22,240
Thank you.

847
01:13:22,500 --> 01:13:22,840
Thank you.

848
01:13:23,540 --> 01:13:26,780
Okay, I don't think we have any more witnesses, members, any more questions.

849
01:13:26,940 --> 01:13:27,440
Thank you, Ms. Hudge.

850
01:13:28,660 --> 01:13:31,420
Chair recognizes Ms. Gonzalez to close.

851
01:13:32,980 --> 01:13:34,880
Thank you, Chairman and committee members.

852
01:13:35,320 --> 01:13:39,440
Our job as legislators is to set up a next generation for the success.

853
01:13:40,220 --> 01:13:42,300
Our job is to protect the most vulnerable.

854
01:13:43,120 --> 01:13:46,740
Our jobs to be thoughtful, brave, and use common sense.

855
01:13:47,300 --> 01:13:51,020
The reality is, is that these teenagers are already sexually active.

856
01:13:51,020 --> 01:13:56,200
The reality is, if we're talking about parental rights, then these young teen moms have

857
01:13:56,200 --> 01:14:01,020
the right to make sure that they have access to reproductive contraception because that

858
01:14:01,020 --> 01:14:02,780
impacts the lives of their children.

859
01:14:03,080 --> 01:14:08,020
If they say, I'm not going to get pregnant again because I know it will impact my child,

860
01:14:08,200 --> 01:14:09,600
that is a parental right.

861
01:14:09,720 --> 01:14:14,440
And I think that even though these are death-difficult and sensitive decisions, these are the decisions

862
01:14:14,440 --> 01:14:19,900
that we need to make to do our job as legislators, to be brave and thoughtful, considerate, and

863
01:14:19,900 --> 01:14:20,620
We can use common sense.

864
01:14:21,080 --> 01:14:26,040
So thank you so much for the hearing and with that, I respectfully request favorable consideration.

865
01:14:26,840 --> 01:14:28,000
Thank you, Ms. Gonzalez.

866
01:14:28,180 --> 01:14:31,720
Does anyone else wish to speak on four against HB 330, between none?

867
01:14:32,480 --> 01:14:32,980
Chair-

868
01:14:35,730 --> 01:14:37,090
We have a case.

869
01:14:38,670 --> 01:14:42,270
We're going to withdraw HB 330 and leave it pending.

870
01:14:42,450 --> 01:14:43,070
Thank you, Mr. Gonzalez.

871
01:14:43,350 --> 01:14:43,550
Thank you.

872
01:14:45,940 --> 01:14:51,280
Okay, the chair lays out HB 2370 and recognizes Mr. Patti.

873
01:14:55,970 --> 01:14:59,650
Thank you, Mr. Chairman and members, for allowing me to lay out H.B.

874
01:15:00,000 --> 01:15:28,700
2370 this afternoon, 2370 is a straightforward bill that removes the obligation for deregulated telecommunications companies to participate in the Lifeline Program. To be clear, this bill does not end the Lifeline Program, and there will still be many companies providing discounted services through the program. This bill only affects the landline part of the program. It's worth noting that the number of customers receiving the discount for landlines has dropped by over 90% since 2008.

875
01:15:28,700 --> 01:15:31,720
That's consumers cut the cord and switched to wireless service.

876
01:15:32,740 --> 01:15:38,800
With that, I believe there are some folks who will be testifying they can answer any technical questions and much better than I.

877
01:15:39,120 --> 01:15:42,240
So unless there are any questions for me, I reserve the right to close.

878
01:15:42,580 --> 01:15:43,620
Here, thank you, Mr. Petty.

879
01:15:54,340 --> 01:15:56,020
Chair now calls Bob DiGnaio.

880
01:16:04,410 --> 01:16:05,450
Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

881
01:16:05,790 --> 01:16:09,910
Bob DiGnaio with AT&T, Assistant Vice President of Regulatory Affairs.

882
01:16:10,330 --> 01:16:15,590
Here in support of House Bill 2370, I'd like to explain a little bit about what

883
01:16:15,590 --> 01:16:25,270
What the bill does and the impact on customers and then finally a little bit about what would happen with this bill was to be approved and implemented.

884
01:16:26,210 --> 01:16:37,050
For the last 22 years or so, the Texas legislature has done a very good job of reducing the level of regulation in the telecommunications business as competition has grown.

885
01:16:37,550 --> 01:16:40,950
House bill 2370 is the next logical step in that.

886
01:16:40,950 --> 01:16:41,050
That.

887
01:16:41,410 --> 01:16:48,230
What the bill does very simply is to allow AT&T to discontinue offering the state lifeline

888
01:16:48,230 --> 01:16:55,550
discount of $6.42 per month for eligible residential customers for their landline service.

889
01:16:55,730 --> 01:16:57,170
This is all about landline service.

890
01:16:58,010 --> 01:17:03,950
The reason is that customers generally have been moving away from landline phones as we all

891
01:17:03,950 --> 01:17:12,090
all know to wireless, in fact AT&T's residential landline base today is 10 percent of what

892
01:17:12,090 --> 01:17:18,770
it was in 2002. That many people have moved away from landlines. Customers who are eligible

893
01:17:18,770 --> 01:17:25,810
for the lifeline service have also moved away to wireless services. And as Representative

894
01:17:25,810 --> 01:17:31,470
Paddy said, the number of customers that are still getting the lifeline discount from AT&T

895
01:17:31,470 --> 01:17:36,230
is about 7% of the number that we had as recently as 2008.

896
01:17:37,090 --> 01:17:39,470
So the world has moved in large part to wireless,

897
01:17:40,230 --> 01:17:43,910
and that's the reason for this legislation.

898
01:17:44,690 --> 01:17:47,330
But I do want to talk about the impact on customers.

899
01:17:48,050 --> 01:17:49,270
Should this be passed?

900
01:17:49,810 --> 01:17:51,370
They would have a number of options.

901
01:17:51,950 --> 01:17:56,230
Those lifeline customers of AT&T could do a couple of things.

902
01:17:56,230 --> 01:17:57,750
They could stay with AT&T.

903
01:17:58,470 --> 01:18:00,630
The service would still be there for them.

904
01:18:00,630 --> 01:18:03,590
They would pay $6.42 more per month.

905
01:18:04,090 --> 01:18:11,910
90% of the customers that have lifeline discount today spend more than $30 on average with AT&T.

906
01:18:12,050 --> 01:18:12,930
So they're good customers.

907
01:18:13,350 --> 01:18:16,290
We'd like to keep them, and certainly that's one option.

908
01:18:16,890 --> 01:18:18,890
But they also would have a couple of other options.

909
01:18:19,070 --> 01:18:22,470
They could take that $6.42 discount and

910
01:18:22,470 --> 01:18:28,030
use it with another landline phone company in their area that offers the discount or

911
01:18:28,030 --> 01:18:29,930
accepts that discount, there's a number of those.

912
01:18:30,370 --> 01:18:32,190
They could also move to wireless.

913
01:18:33,050 --> 01:18:35,930
And others, as Representative Patty mentioned,

914
01:18:36,050 --> 01:18:39,930
there's a federal discount for wireless of $9.25.

915
01:18:40,370 --> 01:18:43,150
They could use that against their wireless bill,

916
01:18:43,150 --> 01:18:46,110
and now the federal lifeline program is changing,

917
01:18:46,110 --> 01:18:47,670
so that could be applied to broadband.

918
01:18:48,490 --> 01:18:50,970
Real quickly, Mr. Chairman, what we would do,

919
01:18:51,770 --> 01:18:52,970
if this were to be passed,

920
01:18:53,150 --> 01:18:56,850
any TNT would definitely give our lifeline customers

921
01:18:56,850 --> 01:19:01,290
There's plenty of notice that there would be some changes being made through a customer

922
01:19:01,290 --> 01:19:02,130
notice process.

923
01:19:02,750 --> 01:19:08,330
And then we'd be glad to work with your offices or with other interested parties to help

924
01:19:08,330 --> 01:19:14,830
those customers who are on the lifeline program from AT&T, the state lifeline, identify options

925
01:19:14,830 --> 01:19:18,810
for them to move to other carriers who provide a lifeline discount.

926
01:19:19,430 --> 01:19:20,810
So that's in and a nutshell.

927
01:19:21,190 --> 01:19:26,030
This is the next logical step in a whole series of steps the legislature has taken over

928
01:19:26,030 --> 01:19:28,510
for the last two decades in telecommunications.

929
01:19:28,770 --> 01:19:29,710
Thank you very much for your time.

930
01:19:29,750 --> 01:19:30,670
Thank you, members.

931
01:19:30,870 --> 01:19:30,990
Yes, sir.

932
01:19:31,110 --> 01:19:31,530
Two questions.

933
01:19:32,070 --> 01:19:32,530
Mr. Perry.

934
01:19:32,850 --> 01:19:33,510
Just one.

935
01:19:33,890 --> 01:19:34,230
All right, sir.

936
01:19:34,610 --> 01:19:35,110
Quick questions here.

937
01:19:35,950 --> 01:19:38,530
Again, just to reiterate, it's important for folks to know

938
01:19:38,530 --> 01:19:40,770
that the service is not going away.

939
01:19:41,570 --> 01:19:41,950
That's correct.

940
01:19:42,310 --> 01:19:44,370
And by my count in doing some research,

941
01:19:45,010 --> 01:19:48,070
there's an excess of 15 other providers

942
01:19:48,070 --> 01:19:51,010
who would still continue to offer this.

943
01:19:51,270 --> 01:19:55,270
And so there could be a situation where you lose a customer

944
01:19:55,270 --> 01:19:59,710
to a competitor because they want to keep this, particularly this count.

945
01:20:00,000 --> 01:20:29,980
Yes sir. So, you know, from a competitive standpoint, it may be an opportunity for your, your competitors. Right. That's correct. There are a landline companies and wireless companies and all of the AT&T service area that offer the discount. And as you said, customers could move to those, to those carriers, absolutely. Thank you, thank you sir. Okay. Thank you very much sir. I believe that wraps up testimony. Chair recognizes Mr. Patti to close on his bill. Thank you Mr. Chair.

946
01:20:29,980 --> 01:20:31,160
Chairman, if there are no other questions,

947
01:20:32,020 --> 01:20:34,040
ask respectfully, ask for favorable consideration,

948
01:20:34,200 --> 01:20:34,620
and I close.

949
01:20:34,800 --> 01:20:39,140
Mr. Petty, Chair removes HB 2370 and will leave it pending.

950
01:20:39,880 --> 01:20:45,660
Chair now calls HB 1527 and recognizes Mr. Simmons.

951
01:20:46,220 --> 01:20:47,800
Thank you, Mr. Chairman, thank you members.

952
01:20:48,640 --> 01:20:52,520
House Bill 1527 is a bill that you all passed out last session,

953
01:20:52,720 --> 01:20:56,420
and actually ended up on the very next page of the calendar before we

954
01:20:57,540 --> 01:21:02,600
As some of you have had that happen before, but I appreciate being able to lay out House Bill 27.

955
01:21:02,780 --> 01:21:05,860
What this bill would do is simply allows people with disabilities.

956
01:21:06,260 --> 01:21:08,580
Rebeck up and say 23, excuse me.

957
01:21:08,580 --> 01:21:13,360
15, 27, the right number, I'm sorry, one, five, two, seven.

958
01:21:13,640 --> 01:21:21,980
This bill would simply allow people with disabilities, both physical and intellectual, to utilize the existing historically underutilized business program.

959
01:21:21,980 --> 01:21:39,780
For a little background, the hub program is run by the comptroller's office to aid state agencies to make good faith efforts to utilize the hubs and contracts for construction services and commodity HB 1527 adds person with disabilities as an economically disadvantaged class.

960
01:21:39,780 --> 01:21:40,000
Yes.

961
01:21:40,320 --> 01:21:46,240
Interesting to know that person with disabilities have about an 80% unemployment rate, so this

962
01:21:46,240 --> 01:21:50,500
will be very helpful to them, and it enables businesses operated by disabled individuals

963
01:21:50,500 --> 01:21:52,460
to be eligible for benefits as a hub.

964
01:21:53,180 --> 01:21:57,720
It adds language to required Texas comptroller to adopt rules to provide goals for increasing

965
01:21:57,720 --> 01:22:02,960
contract awards for hubs that are qualified by disabled persons, and it requires certification

966
01:22:02,960 --> 01:22:08,680
of disability by submission of an affidavit from the physician of each owner claimant verifying

967
01:22:08,680 --> 01:22:09,600
the claimant's disability.

968
01:22:10,180 --> 01:22:13,720
What it does not do is it does not remove any current group from the program.

969
01:22:14,240 --> 01:22:16,120
It does not establish any new program.

970
01:22:16,580 --> 01:22:19,700
It simply adds this group of people to the existing program.

971
01:22:20,260 --> 01:22:26,660
And it does not place disabled people in priority above any of the currently existing economically disadvantaged groups.

972
01:22:27,300 --> 01:22:31,340
So remember, again, this bill simply allows those who have difficulty providing for

973
01:22:31,340 --> 01:22:35,540
themselves because of their disability to be a part of an existing program.

974
01:22:36,020 --> 01:22:46,240
The number of certified hubs in Texas is actually decreased by 5% in the last four years, and it was down about 1,000 businesses.

975
01:22:46,620 --> 01:22:50,580
Increased participation would give the state more options for contracting this program.

976
01:22:51,000 --> 01:22:57,140
And I respectfully ask for your support of this bill, Mr. Chairman, if there's a happy to ask any questions, not to reserve the right to close.

977
01:23:00,260 --> 01:23:01,200
Thank you, Mr. Simmons.

978
01:23:01,380 --> 01:23:02,000
We'll call you back up.

979
01:23:02,200 --> 01:23:02,700
Okay, thank you.

980
01:23:19,610 --> 01:23:26,010
Chair now called Jason Shaw, and he has an interpreter as well.

981
01:23:40,420 --> 01:23:41,120
Go ahead.

982
01:23:42,160 --> 01:23:46,200
Mr. Chair, could you give me a little bit more than three minutes possibly?

983
01:23:47,060 --> 01:23:48,420
Is that okay, that way?

984
01:23:48,420 --> 01:23:48,840
That's fine.

985
01:23:50,280 --> 01:23:51,120
Okay, thank you.

986
01:23:53,950 --> 01:23:59,610
Mr. Chairman and members of the committee, thank you for hearing me this morning this afternoon.

987
01:23:59,610 --> 01:24:03,570
My name is Jason Shaw, and a little bit about my background.

988
01:24:03,950 --> 01:24:06,790
I'm a native of Texan, profoundly deaf since the age of two.

989
01:24:07,250 --> 01:24:11,170
In a master electrician in a BCP certified solar,

990
01:24:12,690 --> 01:24:14,570
photovoltaic electrician in solar.

991
01:24:15,030 --> 01:24:21,370
And the first deaf individual in the nation to be certified.

992
01:24:25,020 --> 01:24:28,740
And I'm president and founder of Blue Paul Energy Services, LSE.

993
01:24:28,740 --> 01:24:34,200
I establish a business in 2012 with the model of the power of choice through innovation,

994
01:24:34,540 --> 01:24:35,400
energy solutions.

995
01:24:35,740 --> 01:24:40,440
It's my personal goal of mind to hire and train disabled individuals, especially those.

996
01:24:40,440 --> 01:24:42,080
Let me interrupt real quick.

997
01:24:42,340 --> 01:24:46,040
Just have Mr. Shawl say he's testifying in favor,

998
01:24:48,870 --> 01:24:49,690
if he is.

999
01:24:50,250 --> 01:24:51,150
Yes, I am in favor.

1000
01:24:51,350 --> 01:24:52,190
Okay, thank you.

1001
01:24:52,630 --> 01:24:53,110
Please continue.

1002
01:24:58,770 --> 01:24:59,910
So it's my personal goal.

1003
01:25:00,000 --> 01:25:29,940
Council to mind a hire and train disabled individuals, especially to get them in the electrical trade, which there is a demand for skilled workers. Since there is a 68 to 72% under employed or unemployment for that group of workers. For that effort, I was awarded two awards with the Austin Mayors and the other one from the Texas Governor's Committee with People on Disabilities. I'm here to provide my comment on

1004
01:25:29,940 --> 01:25:36,040
House Bill 1527 as a disabled business owner who will be potentially impacted by this bill.

1005
01:25:36,220 --> 01:25:42,300
I have met other disabled individual owners with over 30 years, with over 30 of them being

1006
01:25:42,300 --> 01:25:48,940
deaf in the Alston area alone, who all face similar challenges as well.

1007
01:25:54,760 --> 01:25:59,920
In my case, it is more of a challenge in the construction industry due to the misconceptions,

1008
01:26:00,440 --> 01:26:05,160
especially with me, and my cruise deafness with one example is how did you get here?

1009
01:26:05,160 --> 01:26:16,020
Deaf people can't drive, which is not impact my ability of the performance of safely providing services other than not being able to install musical sound systems.

1010
01:26:18,840 --> 01:26:22,320
And I've been doing it for the last 20 years in this industry.

1011
01:26:23,140 --> 01:26:32,160
The purpose of the historically underutilized businesses is to provide an equal playing field for disadvantaged business owners.

1012
01:26:32,160 --> 01:26:37,240
like women in the construction industry dominated by men is forbidding for state contracts.

1013
01:26:37,780 --> 01:26:43,000
I was surprised to find that the hub program in Texas does not extend to the disabled business owners,

1014
01:26:43,280 --> 01:26:48,700
who demonstrate the economically and socially disadvantaged just like other states, such as North Carolina.

1015
01:26:49,700 --> 01:26:53,300
Who overwhelmingly hire other disabled people as employees.

1016
01:26:54,660 --> 01:27:01,120
It is my interest to bid on electrical projects as a subcontractor.

1017
01:27:01,120 --> 01:27:06,720
with 1.1 billion of work in the pipeline in the state of Texas.

1018
01:27:14,450 --> 01:27:22,520
I'm finding that many agencies and prime contractors have preferences to work with hub certified contractors.

1019
01:27:22,520 --> 01:27:24,260
Which puts me at a disadvantage.

1020
01:27:24,560 --> 01:27:38,300
For that reason, I have discussed with the Governor's Committee with people on disabilities about current policies pertaining to business owners which resulted in policy recommendation for the 85th legislative session.

1021
01:27:38,300 --> 01:27:39,800
which I've shared with you.

1022
01:27:42,250 --> 01:27:45,950
If House Bill 1527 passes and becomes law,

1023
01:27:46,070 --> 01:27:49,510
this will enable me, as well as other disabled business owners,

1024
01:27:49,650 --> 01:27:52,830
to bid on projects on an equal playing field,

1025
01:27:52,890 --> 01:27:56,570
which in turn enables us to hire more disabled people.

1026
01:27:56,950 --> 01:27:59,970
And that way there are taxpayers and they are not burdened

1027
01:27:59,970 --> 01:28:04,170
by being on such a security disability income.

1028
01:28:05,650 --> 01:28:08,110
And that way it would reduce the unemployment rate

1029
01:28:08,110 --> 01:28:09,150
of disabled Texans.

1030
01:28:09,150 --> 01:28:15,030
Thank you for giving me the opportunity to provide my testimony, and I'm available to answer any questions with you.

1031
01:28:15,550 --> 01:28:16,670
Members, questions?

1032
01:28:17,630 --> 01:28:19,090
None, Mr. Schell, thank you.

1033
01:28:19,910 --> 01:28:21,110
Good, thank you.

1034
01:28:21,730 --> 01:28:25,970
Chair now calls Ken Brown, and he has an interpreter as well.

1035
01:28:35,490 --> 01:28:36,510
Hello, good afternoon.

1036
01:28:37,010 --> 01:28:45,110
My name is Ken Brown, and I own a company called Scan mailboxes, and it's a mail scanning services for

1037
01:28:45,110 --> 01:28:53,310
or everyone who uses our services, and they tend to travel the world, or work from home for added security purposes.

1038
01:28:53,570 --> 01:28:56,310
So I'm here to support of House Bill 1527.

1039
01:28:57,150 --> 01:29:02,550
And the reason why is because with my experiences, when I go and business meetings and

1040
01:29:02,550 --> 01:29:07,710
booths and talk with other females who own businesses, women own businesses.

1041
01:29:07,910 --> 01:29:12,290
And we get together and we talk about the document scanning services.

1042
01:29:13,430 --> 01:29:18,130
And when they brought up about the HUB opportunities and they asked me and I said,

1043
01:29:18,270 --> 01:29:21,470
no, I'm not qualified under that program, they said, really, and they were shocked.

1044
01:29:23,110 --> 01:29:29,090
And they said, well, why don't you, you know, you have your wife owned 51% of the business.

1045
01:29:29,550 --> 01:29:32,110
And I said, I'm not interested in that kind of thing.

1046
01:29:32,250 --> 01:29:36,010
I want to represent myself as a deaf owned business.

1047
01:29:36,270 --> 01:29:38,990
And that's why I'm here in support of this bill.

1048
01:29:39,190 --> 01:29:40,330
Thank you, and make it happen.

1049
01:29:40,330 --> 01:29:43,650
And thank you, thank you very much.

1050
01:29:44,650 --> 01:29:46,530
Chair now calls James Parker.

1051
01:29:47,030 --> 01:29:47,590
Mr.

1052
01:29:49,930 --> 01:29:50,230
Parker?

1053
01:29:50,710 --> 01:29:51,070
Mr. Parker?

1054
01:29:51,550 --> 01:29:52,070
Oh, okay.

1055
01:30:31,570 --> 01:30:33,070
Thank you for being here. Thank

1056
01:31:57,040 --> 01:32:02,400
you very much, Mr. Parker, and just to make sure you're testifying and support for the bill.

1057
01:32:13,830 --> 01:32:36,330
Thank you very much. And my name is Renee. The Chair now calls Renee Parker. Thank you. Yes, ma'am. My name is Renee Parker and I am James Parker's mother and also the business manager for shredding on the go. And I am in favor of this bill, 1527. Thank you. Thank you for giving us this opportunity to speak about

1058
01:32:36,330 --> 01:32:41,650
about something that we have been fighting for for a long time, disability owned businesses

1059
01:32:41,650 --> 01:32:43,610
becoming a hub in Texas.

1060
01:32:44,610 --> 01:32:52,230
We started shredding on the go with the desire to help James be out in the community and

1061
01:32:52,230 --> 01:32:55,730
to be employed by doing something he loves.

1062
01:32:56,490 --> 01:33:03,430
And we believe that all people have enormous value and God given purpose for their lives.

1063
01:33:03,430 --> 01:33:10,330
Three-state agencies helped us create shredding on the go.

1064
01:33:10,850 --> 01:33:18,270
First, the school district helped teach James how to shred and how to market his business through classes in school.

1065
01:33:18,790 --> 01:33:28,470
Secondly, the state Medicaid waiver class program provides supported employment specialist to support James while he's working.

1066
01:33:28,470 --> 01:33:37,590
The third agency that helped shredding on the go was DARS now under TWC, but it was the Department of

1067
01:33:37,590 --> 01:33:43,890
Assistive and Rehabilitative Services. DARS provided the funding that shredding on the

1068
01:33:43,890 --> 01:33:49,510
go needed to start the business and to make the business sustainable.

1069
01:33:50,850 --> 01:33:57,890
Shredding on the go is a beautiful example of how the support from state programs

1070
01:33:57,890 --> 01:34:03,730
can create a successful tailor-made self-employment business.

1071
01:34:04,810 --> 01:34:07,870
Now, shredding on the go is fully sustainable.

1072
01:34:08,670 --> 01:34:09,870
It pays taxes.

1073
01:34:10,830 --> 01:34:16,710
It has hired now 17, not 13, individuals with disabilities

1074
01:34:16,710 --> 01:34:19,850
to work for it, who have never had a job before

1075
01:34:19,850 --> 01:34:22,110
earning minimum wage or higher.

1076
01:34:22,930 --> 01:34:25,790
And also, some of shredding on the go workers

1077
01:34:25,790 --> 01:34:30,010
will see a decrease in their government assistance.

1078
01:34:31,540 --> 01:34:34,970
One story I want to share with you is the story about Troy.

1079
01:34:35,810 --> 01:34:40,630
On December 1, 2013, we hired Troy who had several palsy

1080
01:34:40,630 --> 01:34:43,110
and was 51 years old then.

1081
01:34:44,210 --> 01:34:48,790
I gave him his paycheck on December 15 and he looked at me

1082
01:34:48,790 --> 01:34:52,390
and he looked at his check and then he looked back at me and said,

1083
01:34:52,390 --> 01:34:59,610
Ms. Parker, this is the first time in my life I am going to be able to go by Christmas

1084
01:35:04,900 --> 01:35:25,160
It was one of the proudest days of his life and mine too. In 2015, shredding on the go was certified as a disability-owned business enterprise by the U.S.D.s business leadership and that been able to use this certificate limited access.

1085
01:35:27,020 --> 01:35:35,940
Intellectual developmental disability's unemployment rate is 80 and individuals that have unemployment rate is 90.

1086
01:35:36,700 --> 01:35:46,420
If Texas passes bill 1527, here are some benefits that would take place.

1087
01:35:46,420 --> 01:35:53,900
State contractors could hire disability-owned business workers to meet their minority-owned

1088
01:35:53,900 --> 01:36:00,800
business contracting requirements, the abilities to work as a whole.

1089
01:36:01,720 --> 01:36:07,180
It would also give disability-owned businesses the opportunity for networking with other

1090
01:36:07,180 --> 01:36:07,860
companies.

1091
01:36:08,780 --> 01:36:11,060
And I think this is want to work.

1092
01:36:11,060 --> 01:36:25,120
Not just washing tables at McDonald's or Waterburger, but truly having a seat at the table with other minority owned businesses, owned businesses.

1093
01:36:25,660 --> 01:36:32,680
King Nye's disability owned businesses as a valuable asset to the work force.

1094
01:36:33,900 --> 01:36:43,780
In closing, why does this group, the Disability Own Business Group, continue to be a hub program?

1095
01:36:44,960 --> 01:36:48,360
Thank you for listening to me and James today.

1096
01:36:49,880 --> 01:36:50,540
Any questions?

1097
01:36:50,660 --> 01:36:54,080
The speaker, thank you very much to meet my questions and thank you all for being here.

1098
01:36:54,460 --> 01:36:54,660
Okay.

1099
01:37:09,850 --> 01:37:10,990
I'll call Chase Bearden.

1100
01:37:29,090 --> 01:37:30,130
I'm doing good.

1101
01:37:30,270 --> 01:37:30,810
Thank you for being here.

1102
01:37:30,850 --> 01:37:31,070
Chairman.

1103
01:37:31,570 --> 01:37:32,910
Chase, first of all, thank you.

1104
01:37:32,910 --> 01:37:37,850
We are further in session and I think you just saw three great examples.

1105
01:37:38,110 --> 01:37:40,210
So go ahead and say you're representing yourself as well.

1106
01:37:40,510 --> 01:37:41,230
And myself as well.

1107
01:37:41,230 --> 01:37:41,890
Thank you very much.

1108
01:37:44,130 --> 01:37:46,630
What you've seen is three great examples of entrepreneurship.

1109
01:37:47,130 --> 01:37:52,510
And disability community is actually, usually it's twice as much in entrepreneurship.

1110
01:37:53,130 --> 01:37:57,470
They find they're able to get around barriers that they would have trying to get a job at different places.

1111
01:37:58,130 --> 01:38:02,570
And the one thing we've always noticed, and it's kind of like with veteran-owned businesses.

1112
01:38:02,570 --> 01:38:03,950
is they tend to hire veterans.

1113
01:38:04,050 --> 01:38:06,150
They's trying to lower the unemployment rate.

1114
01:38:06,350 --> 01:38:08,850
And what we found is that when people have control

1115
01:38:08,850 --> 01:38:11,750
of their own destiny, they can do that more often than not.

1116
01:38:12,470 --> 01:38:16,890
Something else that we see, the younger generation

1117
01:38:16,890 --> 01:38:20,350
that's coming up that's had the ADA now for 25 years

1118
01:38:20,970 --> 01:38:22,430
really has new expectations.

1119
01:38:22,990 --> 01:38:24,690
They want to work and live independently.

1120
01:38:25,170 --> 01:38:28,110
Not have others constantly doing everything for them.

1121
01:38:28,310 --> 01:38:29,890
And I think this is that next step,

1122
01:38:29,890 --> 01:38:36,070
that opportunity and have a fair playing field to do that and I want to thank Representative Simmons and all of you.

1123
01:38:36,170 --> 01:38:39,330
Thank you. Mr. Bearden, thank you for being here. Members, questions? No, thank you.

1124
01:38:39,430 --> 01:38:39,690
Thank you.

1125
01:38:40,950 --> 01:38:47,750
Is there, I think that's everybody, first turning, anybody else wishing to speak on for against HB1527?

1126
01:40:00,000 --> 01:40:20,080
Mr. Chairman? Seeing none, Chair recognizes Mr. Simmons to close. Thank you. Mr. Chairman, members, for listening. This is one of those opportunities, and we can all come together and do something right by the people we serve. And I just hope that you'll give this favorable consideration. Mr. Chairman, with that I close. Mr. Chairman, thank you, Mr. Simmons. Chair, which are all of this, it should be 1527, and leaves it pending.

1127
01:40:28,490 --> 01:40:36,550
Chair Lay's House bills, 1633, and calls on reps and Rodriguez to explain his bill. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

1128
01:40:36,550 --> 01:40:40,430
Good afternoon, committee members, I will try to be brief.

1129
01:40:40,670 --> 01:40:47,230
This is House Bill 1633, I appreciate the opportunity to lay this out before the Honourable State Affairs Committee.

1130
01:40:47,650 --> 01:41:03,050
This is a local bill, local initiative that affects only the menacically owned energy and water utilities serving San Antonio and seeks to streamline effectiveness and efficiency of the affordability discount program.

1131
01:41:03,050 --> 01:41:06,570
That program was authorized by the legislature over 10 years ago.

1132
01:41:06,950 --> 01:41:18,410
It is specifically available for cities that have municipally owned energy and water utilities with a population of more than 1 million but less than 2 million thereby bracketing it to San Antonio.

1133
01:41:18,970 --> 01:41:25,090
This program allows customers struggling to pay their bill to apply for receiving a small discount.

1134
01:41:25,090 --> 01:41:25,150
I don't know.

1135
01:41:25,230 --> 01:41:26,530
Remember, thank you.

1136
01:41:26,930 --> 01:41:27,390
Go ahead.

1137
01:41:27,710 --> 01:41:35,850
To receive a small discount towards their bill, HB-1633 simply seeks to, again, streamline

1138
01:41:35,850 --> 01:41:41,010
the process between CPS energy and San Antonio water system and create some operational

1139
01:41:41,010 --> 01:41:41,690
efficiencies.

1140
01:41:42,010 --> 01:41:49,570
It would clarify the triggering statutory criteria so that a customer is deemed low-income by

1141
01:41:49,570 --> 01:41:54,670
the utility and they would not also have to be threatened with disconnection.

1142
01:41:55,530 --> 01:41:57,990
I believe there are some resource witnesses available.

1143
01:41:58,230 --> 01:42:02,870
If there are questions, and Mr. Chairman, I would reserve the right to close.

1144
01:42:03,390 --> 01:42:05,050
Okay, members, any questions?

1145
01:42:05,950 --> 01:42:11,130
Members, does anybody need a resource, are we having by resource, team, by need a resource witness?

1146
01:42:12,290 --> 01:42:18,970
I don't think we, okay, let you reserve the right to close, we'll call it, we've got some witnesses.

1147
01:42:33,310 --> 01:42:35,290
Okay. Chair calls Hope Wales.

1148
01:42:40,060 --> 01:42:42,100
She's going to allow me to testify in the Chair.

1149
01:42:44,630 --> 01:42:45,730
Just one second.

1150
01:42:46,470 --> 01:42:47,110
Wait, wait, wait.

1151
01:42:47,170 --> 01:42:51,870
We're waiting to see if she did not testify in.

1152
01:42:53,460 --> 01:42:53,740
Okay.

1153
01:42:53,900 --> 01:42:56,340
We'll show Hope Wales not testifying.

1154
01:42:57,520 --> 01:42:59,880
But for the bill, then we'll call up.

1155
01:43:00,620 --> 01:43:03,460
Robert went to come up and testify.

1156
01:43:04,180 --> 01:43:04,440
Okay.

1157
01:43:04,920 --> 01:43:05,740
Now that was embarrassing.

1158
01:43:06,220 --> 01:43:07,960
Representative Rodriguez said that was broken in the state.

1159
01:43:07,960 --> 01:43:09,380
We've done this drill before, hadn't you?

1160
01:43:09,780 --> 01:43:09,920
Yes.

1161
01:43:11,300 --> 01:43:16,420
Well, off to a bad start, but Mr. Chairman, members of the committee, my name is Robert Puente.

1162
01:43:17,080 --> 01:43:19,600
I am the President's CEO of the Santonio Water System.

1163
01:43:19,640 --> 01:43:21,820
We are utility owned by the City of Santonio.

1164
01:43:21,900 --> 01:43:27,880
We provide water, wastewater, recycled water to over 1.7 million people in four different counties.

1165
01:43:28,320 --> 01:43:29,540
We are in support of this bill.

1166
01:43:29,900 --> 01:43:37,420
That essentially allows our customers that can lease the Ford to pay a bill to have some help.

1167
01:43:38,220 --> 01:43:43,380
And actually, this helps those individuals, but actually this is a good business decision on the part of the solid.

1168
01:43:43,940 --> 01:43:52,700
If we are able to get these people onto our programs or affordability programs prior to the notice of them being the link went, it actually saves us money.

1169
01:43:53,760 --> 01:43:59,200
There's a lot of money in collection, there's a lot of money that we have to send out an individual to turn off their water.

1170
01:43:59,380 --> 01:44:05,860
And invariably you go more than one, two, three, four hours without water, you find money, you find your resources to pay the bill.

1171
01:44:05,860 --> 01:44:08,560
We have to send somebody back out there to turn on the water.

1172
01:44:09,080 --> 01:44:17,820
So I ask this committee to look favorably upon this bill, and recognize that you're helping not only the individuals that need that help, but it's also a good business decision.

1173
01:44:18,220 --> 01:44:19,760
Thank you, any questions that you have?

1174
01:44:21,500 --> 01:44:22,580
Mr. Garen, how are you?

1175
01:44:23,360 --> 01:44:24,080
Oh, you are.

1176
01:44:24,960 --> 01:44:31,460
I don't believe we have any questions for you, so thank you very much.

1177
01:44:32,280 --> 01:44:42,140
Maria Garcia, Vice President of Community Engagement, CPS Energy, here to speak for the bill.

1178
01:44:44,060 --> 01:44:46,700
Good afternoon, Chairman Cook, members of the committee.

1179
01:44:46,920 --> 01:44:53,240
I am Maria Garcia on behalf of CPS Energy in San Antonio, Texas, and I am here for House Bill 1633.

1180
01:44:54,040 --> 01:44:59,760
My comments are duplicative of our representative Justin Rodriguez, but I am here to answer any questions.

1181
01:45:00,000 --> 01:45:06,760
Committee may have. I don't believe we have any questions. Okay, so thank you very much for your testimony. Thank you.

1182
01:45:07,000 --> 01:45:15,160
Is anyone else wish week? It's registered on for Organ's House Bill 1633. If not, we'll call on

1183
01:45:15,160 --> 01:45:20,980
Representative Rodriguez to close on his bill. Thank you, again, Mr. Chairman. Appreciate the consideration of the committee.

1184
01:45:21,340 --> 01:45:26,660
Certainly would ask a favorable consideration to go to the local and consent calendar, sir. And with that, I close.

1185
01:45:26,660 --> 01:45:30,940
All right, and at this time, it's Chair's intent to leave House Bill 1633 pending.

1186
01:45:31,080 --> 01:45:31,420
Thank you.

1187
01:45:33,080 --> 01:45:39,420
The Chair lays out House Bill 997 and calls on Mrippton Cripprigley on to explain his bill.

1188
01:45:44,920 --> 01:45:49,180
Thank you, Mr. Chairman and members, thank you for the opportunity to address the committee.

1189
01:45:49,300 --> 01:45:53,460
By the way, thank you for letting a couple of folks in front of you.

1190
01:45:53,680 --> 01:45:57,220
We had a few folks we needed to clear out and so appreciate your patience.

1191
01:45:57,220 --> 01:45:58,880
I don't know, no problem.

1192
01:45:59,140 --> 01:46:05,320
Today I'm here to speak to you about House Bill 997, which addresses concerns about political subdivisions,

1193
01:46:06,080 --> 01:46:10,420
circumventing state oversight and authority in land transfers and sales of the federal government.

1194
01:46:10,980 --> 01:46:16,000
In the past, the state of Texas has not been notified of the transfer of certain municipal land to the federal government.

1195
01:46:17,180 --> 01:46:21,820
House Bill 997 would require political subdivisions to provide an advance notice and

1196
01:46:21,820 --> 01:46:25,860
a formal request for approval to the governor's office no later than a 30th day before

1197
01:46:25,860 --> 01:46:29,820
a proposed land conveyance. An exemption to the advance notice in formal request

1198
01:46:29,820 --> 01:46:32,840
requirements would be permitted for federal post offices.

1199
01:46:34,360 --> 01:46:37,860
We have a committee substitute and another one on its way.

1200
01:46:38,140 --> 01:46:41,920
There's one in front of you. The current committee substitute talks about the fact

1201
01:46:41,920 --> 01:46:45,300
that there's, is there not a committee substitute?

1202
01:46:49,760 --> 01:46:57,120
So there is a committee substitute now that would provide an exemption also for the Department

1203
01:46:57,120 --> 01:47:01,660
of Defense because we have heard from certain military installations and facilities that

1204
01:47:01,660 --> 01:47:04,260
sometimes they want to create a buffer zone around those areas.

1205
01:47:05,840 --> 01:47:13,060
And that committee substitute would also allow the GLO with the authority to collect information

1206
01:47:13,060 --> 01:47:15,320
related to those public land conveyances.

1207
01:47:15,540 --> 01:47:21,040
Quite frankly, we're going to be eventually getting you another substitute that takes out the GLO entirely.

1208
01:47:21,540 --> 01:47:27,920
But here's basically the point of this bill, and I do appreciate and support local control.

1209
01:47:28,520 --> 01:47:33,380
I try and look at it as if it's not wanting to micromanage local cities and so on.

1210
01:47:33,600 --> 01:47:39,880
However, I also think about it from a corporate perspective, which is you have these subsidiaries or subdivisions or what have you.

1211
01:47:39,880 --> 01:47:49,060
And those cities, municipalities, and others should have the right to get into certain transactions and get involved in certain responsibilities.

1212
01:47:49,400 --> 01:48:04,480
But when it comes to selling assets or real property, I think the state does have an obvious interest in making sure that they at least have some say in the transfer of those assets or real property outside the state.

1213
01:48:04,980 --> 01:48:06,920
So that's essentially my bill.

1214
01:48:06,920 --> 01:48:08,980
I know that members at this time will be happy to answer any questions.

1215
01:48:09,260 --> 01:48:10,240
We have some questions.

1216
01:48:10,480 --> 01:48:11,740
Representative Myers over here.

1217
01:48:11,940 --> 01:48:12,800
I'm really getting over here.

1218
01:48:13,520 --> 01:48:15,800
Do you have any idea about the volume that we're talking here?

1219
01:48:16,240 --> 01:48:16,680
I can't even.

1220
01:48:16,860 --> 01:48:16,960
Yeah.

1221
01:48:17,860 --> 01:48:18,800
That's a good question.

1222
01:48:18,980 --> 01:48:21,700
What we did is we looked at the largest counties.

1223
01:48:22,500 --> 01:48:24,960
I think the five largest counties in Texas.

1224
01:48:26,320 --> 01:48:29,760
Most of the transfers deal with US post offices.

1225
01:48:30,400 --> 01:48:34,460
Most of the times what a city is doing is giving some property for US post office.

1226
01:48:35,920 --> 01:48:40,720
There are the second biggest is military installations, that sort of stuff buffers.

1227
01:48:41,260 --> 01:48:48,700
So those two are exempted, however, in a recent case, in 2015 with the city of Waco's

1228
01:48:48,700 --> 01:48:51,820
conveyance of Waco, Manuth Park to the federal government.

1229
01:48:51,900 --> 01:48:57,140
So it's not a large amount, it's not a high volume, but one of the issues, in my opinion,

1230
01:48:57,420 --> 01:49:03,820
is just a fundamental issue of whether or not subdivision should be able to go in deep

1231
01:49:03,820 --> 01:49:33,800
property to the federal government, without at least the state being part of that, there's this old act, it's called the Antiquities Act, the Congressional Antiquities Act, and what will happen is, and what has happened in Texas is that a city, maybe for good purposes, but what they do is they say, hey, we want to provide this as part of the National Park Association, National Historic, or what have you, and then this property then is deeded and maintained and completely under the

1232
01:49:33,800 --> 01:49:36,620
control of the federal government for 99 years or more.

1233
01:49:37,280 --> 01:49:42,480
So it's not a high volume, and with these two exemptions it really does limit it.

1234
01:49:43,080 --> 01:49:45,460
And are any thoughts to the size of the transaction?

1235
01:49:45,860 --> 01:49:50,980
I mean, maybe there are some smaller transactions which don't need to be, and I just don't know

1236
01:49:50,980 --> 01:49:52,120
if you can give any thought to that.

1237
01:49:52,500 --> 01:49:58,080
We've looked at both the types of property, so there's also considered mineral leases, for

1238
01:49:58,080 --> 01:49:59,400
for instance, is one that happens.

1239
01:50:00,000 --> 01:50:29,160
A little bit, but most, we, the size of them have not been, like, insignificant other than the postal, postal service ones. So in my opinion, anything above that, which is what we found would should be listed under, or should at least be positively affirmed by the state. And the way we've set this up is the state doesn't, if the state doesn't respond within 30 days, then it would go through as it is anyway.

1240
01:50:29,160 --> 01:50:32,640
All right, so the state wouldn't necessarily slow down any of these transactions.

1241
01:50:33,560 --> 01:50:43,500
But if they do have a significant concern over state property, our city property that is being sent to the federal government, they could proactively get involved.

1242
01:50:43,760 --> 01:50:44,520
Very good, thank you, Representative.

1243
01:50:44,780 --> 01:50:45,300
All right, thank you.

1244
01:50:45,960 --> 01:50:47,160
Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

1245
01:50:47,900 --> 01:50:53,880
Proactively get involved, does that mean does the state have the ability to block the city from sale?

1246
01:50:54,160 --> 01:50:56,360
With this bill, that's what would be able to happen.

1247
01:50:56,360 --> 01:51:04,280
And so that if the city wanted to do that, and again, I look at this from a kind of a holding company subsidiary, right?

1248
01:51:04,600 --> 01:51:09,460
I mean, I think the holding company should absolutely give a lot of difference to the holding companies or

1249
01:51:09,460 --> 01:51:13,780
to the subdivision, in that case to manage their own affairs.

1250
01:51:13,940 --> 01:51:20,960
However, I think when it comes to selling property, which is under the state's really a jurisdiction,

1251
01:51:21,520 --> 01:51:24,620
then I think the state should have the ability to go say iron A on that.

1252
01:51:24,620 --> 01:51:31,360
So if the city is in negotiations with the federal government, let's say, and this is what this bill really is about, right?

1253
01:51:32,440 --> 01:51:37,380
I mean, can they even start negotiations without talking to the governor or talking to some of the state first?

1254
01:51:37,520 --> 01:51:38,880
Is that what you're trying to get at?

1255
01:51:38,980 --> 01:51:40,080
So they can.

1256
01:51:41,000 --> 01:51:44,260
My bill does not talk about the negotiation phase or so on.

1257
01:51:44,260 --> 01:51:54,720
what it says is that you have to get, you know, you have to get the status sign off on it within 30 days and within 30 days of that request.

1258
01:51:55,040 --> 01:52:02,940
If the state does not give any advice at all or says yes within 30 days, then it can go obviously as it was intended.

1259
01:52:03,100 --> 01:52:08,400
It's only if the state effectively goes in and tries to stop it.

1260
01:52:08,400 --> 01:52:10,700
Okay. Thank you.

1261
01:52:13,120 --> 01:52:22,040
Chair, could you give me an instance where you believe that the city immunosuppality of political

1262
01:52:22,040 --> 01:52:27,640
subdivision has sold a piece of its property and somehow the state was affected?

1263
01:52:28,260 --> 01:52:35,360
So, the biggest example is when the city of Waco conveyed essentially Waco mammoth park to the federal

1264
01:52:35,360 --> 01:52:41,300
government. And I think in that case, again, I'm not going into the conversation about whether

1265
01:52:41,300 --> 01:52:47,340
should or should not have done that. What I believe is that the state should have been,

1266
01:52:48,020 --> 01:52:54,340
I guess, consulted before a piece of its property gets ceded to the federal government for 99 plus years.

1267
01:52:54,780 --> 01:52:59,100
A piece of the state's property or a piece of the municipality's property?

1268
01:52:59,100 --> 01:53:12,720
Well, I would point out, I guess my position is that all property within the state is effectively the state's responsibility and make sure that it's managed and so on, so it has an interest in that.

1269
01:53:16,150 --> 01:53:26,250
I mean, on the appraisal district during the assessors, it would put, in that case it was a private, now on the history of it, it was a private land that was given to the city.

1270
01:53:26,250 --> 01:53:34,930
and then so under the preysole district that's listed as the city, and then the city essentially gave that to the federal government.

1271
01:53:36,330 --> 01:53:41,590
And again, that happens often, usually when it comes to post offices and so on.

1272
01:53:42,350 --> 01:53:51,810
So in the case of the city of Dallas, for instance, I guess we have 15 people on the city council, 14 city council members and the mayor.

1273
01:53:51,810 --> 01:54:14,530
And so if those 15 people make a decision that they're going to dispose of a piece of property that belongs to the city of Dallas, then we are going to give one person at the state of Texas the ability to overrule those 15 people who represent the citizens of the state.

1274
01:54:14,530 --> 01:54:44,410
I think, you know, from my perspective, I'm not really sure when it comes to, again, seating state property, which is effectively what that is, that they should have that authority to begin with, because otherwise what would prevent any local municipality from seating large portions of either its land or associated land to the federal government, and my biggest concern with that is that the lease that's usually associated with that or the

1275
01:54:44,410 --> 01:54:52,470
deed or is usually is 99 years or 100 years or longer, and so that's my real concern.

1276
01:54:52,470 --> 01:54:58,810
And so, you cited an incident or a situation in Waco.

1277
01:55:00,000 --> 01:55:29,860
Which I'm not familiar with, but I suppose that there were people or organizations or somebody that has said this was a bad deal. You cited that as a time when perhaps the state should have been consulted. I can't speak to. I believe that since it took a long time, and there was a lot of conversation about that particular piece of land that there were probably people opposed to it.

1278
01:55:29,860 --> 01:55:37,140
But again, I'm not really trying to get into whether that particular item was or was not

1279
01:55:37,140 --> 01:55:42,840
or other items should or should not be, you know, people should be opposed to it or

1280
01:55:42,840 --> 01:55:43,060
not.

1281
01:55:43,380 --> 01:55:51,280
I mean, what I really want to get at is, should a local subdivision give seed property to

1282
01:55:51,280 --> 01:55:54,140
the federal government without the state's involvement?

1283
01:55:54,140 --> 01:56:04,020
Okay. And I guess my final question is if, in fact, you believe that is the governor

1284
01:56:04,020 --> 01:56:07,520
of the proper person to make that decision?

1285
01:56:08,100 --> 01:56:14,040
Well, I mean, I think that's a good question. I think just because we only meet for

1286
01:56:14,040 --> 01:56:20,580
every two years, it was the authority that makes the most sense to be able to relatively

1287
01:56:20,580 --> 01:56:26,120
quickly respond to a request because what I imagine is that these transactions also,

1288
01:56:26,380 --> 01:56:31,060
although the volume is low, they probably don't happen exactly when we're in session.

1289
01:56:31,620 --> 01:56:34,700
Otherwise, I would, but obviously, for that we get involved.

1290
01:56:34,960 --> 01:56:42,240
But given the nature of how those asset sales or those D transfers might happen,

1291
01:56:42,380 --> 01:56:48,020
that it would have to be someone who is both one statewide officer,

1292
01:56:48,020 --> 01:56:52,740
but also someone who is available throughout the year.

1293
01:56:53,180 --> 01:57:02,960
And you say that you think that these situations or infrequent define infrequent?

1294
01:57:04,160 --> 01:57:09,020
Well, so I looked at this, so this is a static picture, but I looked at a static picture

1295
01:57:09,020 --> 01:57:16,260
of, again, the largest counties and we looked through, and I helped look through, the appraisal

1296
01:57:16,260 --> 01:57:20,600
districts for those largest counties to see who are the owners of those properties.

1297
01:57:21,460 --> 01:57:26,660
And then what I did is I looked at, for instance, and I focused only on the ones that were

1298
01:57:26,660 --> 01:57:28,860
owned by the United States of America.

1299
01:57:29,780 --> 01:57:37,180
And after subtracting postal services and military bases, I, there were a few of them.

1300
01:57:37,740 --> 01:57:42,140
And so given, even though that was a static picture, it is probably something that only comes

1301
01:57:42,140 --> 01:57:43,980
up a handful of times each year.

1302
01:57:44,540 --> 01:57:45,840
and full times a year.

1303
01:57:46,280 --> 01:57:47,580
That's my guess at the maximum.

1304
01:57:47,860 --> 01:57:52,020
Again, and now that was before I had done the Department of Defense Exemptions.

1305
01:57:52,100 --> 01:57:54,460
That was something that I didn't have in the original bill.

1306
01:57:55,000 --> 01:57:58,080
And I think that part is the part that happens probably more.

1307
01:57:58,720 --> 01:57:58,860
Okay.

1308
01:58:00,420 --> 01:58:02,840
Well, this is going to sound like a nutty question.

1309
01:58:02,960 --> 01:58:05,920
And it may be, but I'm just trying to understand what you're trying to do

1310
01:58:05,920 --> 01:58:10,900
and the vehicle that you're using to do what you're trying to do.

1311
01:58:10,900 --> 01:58:18,860
So is this sort of what on the other hand, this is the kind of silly question, but I need

1312
01:58:18,860 --> 01:58:25,540
to have you answer this silly question on the other hand, if we came to the state of Texas,

1313
01:58:26,040 --> 01:58:31,560
do we also have the ability to transfer properties to the United States?

1314
01:58:33,460 --> 01:58:34,900
Can I ask you that again?

1315
01:58:35,020 --> 01:58:35,380
I'm not sure.

1316
01:58:35,380 --> 01:58:45,080
Okay. You say cities have municipalities and political subdivision in certain situations have the ability to convey properties to do today.

1317
01:58:45,380 --> 01:58:58,480
Yes. And it would even under my bill. Yes. Yes. Okay. So just because I haven't researched this, I'm asking you to do states also have the ability to convey properties to.

1318
01:58:58,480 --> 01:59:00,140
The state had the ability to do that.

1319
01:59:03,240 --> 01:59:04,600
I would imagine so, right?

1320
01:59:04,980 --> 01:59:07,640
I mean, because the state could, obviously,

1321
01:59:08,020 --> 01:59:09,920
now we had gone through, obviously,

1322
01:59:10,820 --> 01:59:15,260
when Texas was found there was a negotiated agreement back then,

1323
01:59:15,500 --> 01:59:18,200
but I believe there probably is a method to do that.

1324
01:59:18,800 --> 01:59:23,180
And so what this does is it provides a municipality,

1325
01:59:23,180 --> 01:59:29,000
be the current authority to at least be checked by the executive branch.

1326
01:59:30,360 --> 01:59:32,140
Okay, thank you.

1327
01:59:32,640 --> 01:59:33,220
Yes.

1328
01:59:33,720 --> 01:59:34,360
Mr. Chairman.

1329
01:59:36,120 --> 01:59:41,500
I know the city of Austin and Travis County have looked into doing long-term leases to private,

1330
01:59:41,840 --> 01:59:45,100
maybe potentially private developers or private entities.

1331
01:59:45,920 --> 01:59:50,040
And I know this wouldn't affect, I don't think it will affect that, right, the private.

1332
01:59:50,040 --> 01:59:56,460
But what's the difference between doing a long term, maybe even a 50, 99-year lease to

1333
01:59:56,460 --> 01:59:58,280
the private sector versus to the federal government?

1334
01:59:58,880 --> 01:59:59,820
What do you see a difference?

1335
02:00:00,000 --> 02:00:29,160
I think the real reason is when I started doing research on the Intiquities Act and so on, it does provide, there are certain rules that will still remain on private land. When there's a lease of someone, the city and the state still under current law have a lot of not only responsibility, but also a lot of actions they can take on that private property, whether in terms of there's ordinances or on the city level, there's actually state law. It's obviously still part of that physical piece of land.

1336
02:00:29,160 --> 02:00:33,940
However, when you look at, in the case of the Federal Government, it comes in, and then

1337
02:00:33,940 --> 02:00:40,960
is now the effective owner of a piece of land, sometimes the state's rights are surrogated

1338
02:00:40,960 --> 02:00:45,780
to what the Federal Government's laws are, and those, like take, for instance, a national

1339
02:00:45,780 --> 02:00:50,580
park versus state law, take a difference between the Federal and the U.S. post office service,

1340
02:00:50,580 --> 02:00:54,500
for instance, and the rules that they have, under a variety of different things, including,

1341
02:00:54,860 --> 02:00:56,880
let's say, handguns and so on.

1342
02:00:56,880 --> 02:01:02,400
the state's laws don't apply effectively, they're preempted by what is on that property.

1343
02:01:02,820 --> 02:01:08,820
I think that's the fundamental difference between federal land and that's at least for a long time, and private land, that's at least for a long time.

1344
02:01:09,060 --> 02:01:09,260
Thank you.

1345
02:01:12,640 --> 02:01:14,340
Members, any other questions?

1346
02:01:15,140 --> 02:01:21,280
I have a high regard for you, I'm struggling with this one, I'm really going to have to thank through this.

1347
02:01:21,500 --> 02:01:28,760
And even for do this, who should have authority, I'm concerned when a person can make

1348
02:01:28,760 --> 02:01:32,940
make a decision not to do something like this.

1349
02:01:33,680 --> 02:01:35,360
We've got to thank about this one.

1350
02:01:36,440 --> 02:01:37,560
Members, any other questions?

1351
02:01:38,000 --> 02:01:39,880
If not, we'll go ahead and start calling your witnesses.

1352
02:01:41,440 --> 02:01:46,380
Donnelly, Executive Director of Texas Conference of Urban Counties, here to speak against the bill.

1353
02:01:50,760 --> 02:01:51,420
Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

1354
02:01:51,620 --> 02:01:55,520
My name is Donnelly, Executive Director of the Texas Conference of Urban Counties.

1355
02:01:55,620 --> 02:02:01,180
And I want to first thank Representative Giovanni Staff for spending time with me to discuss

1356
02:02:01,180 --> 02:02:03,500
us this previous to today.

1357
02:02:05,080 --> 02:02:10,960
We have one general objection, and we'd like to bring up two specific situations that

1358
02:02:10,960 --> 02:02:13,000
we think would warrant addressing.

1359
02:02:13,900 --> 02:02:19,260
A general objection, and we agree that this is not a often thing.

1360
02:02:19,460 --> 02:02:22,140
This is not something that happens much.

1361
02:02:22,240 --> 02:02:27,300
In fact, I kind of struggled to go back and find some examples, but I found one, and it was

1362
02:02:27,300 --> 02:02:30,800
was actually one that really brought up one of our specific issues.

1363
02:02:30,980 --> 02:02:36,720
And that was, if you go back into the 1930s when Houston was struggling with significant

1364
02:02:36,720 --> 02:02:42,480
flooding problems along Buffalo Bayou, there was work where the Corps of Engineers came in

1365
02:02:42,480 --> 02:02:49,460
and worked with Harris County to build the Attics Reservoir, Barker Attics Reservoir out

1366
02:02:49,460 --> 02:02:50,460
in the West Harris County.

1367
02:02:50,620 --> 02:02:53,180
There has been so important to controlling flooding in that town.

1368
02:02:53,180 --> 02:03:10,220
And it was a controversial project and there was some NIMBY opposition to what was going on and there was a component of it that involved Harris County had to provide matching resources to the core of engineers and some of those matching resources was providing the core of engineers land.

1369
02:03:10,980 --> 02:03:18,840
And the prospect, this is the more general that our membership is concerned about, is that when something comes up like that,

1370
02:03:19,600 --> 02:03:24,440
And it's a divisive and controversial type project and they go through the process

1371
02:03:24,440 --> 02:03:29,600
of making a difficult decision with public hearings and newspaper editorials and all

1372
02:03:29,600 --> 02:03:31,500
the things that go into big capital projects.

1373
02:03:32,120 --> 02:03:37,720
And they make a decision and then it goes up and it's next.

1374
02:03:38,320 --> 02:03:44,020
And so they've made the decision without, you know, made the decision and, frankly, made

1375
02:03:44,020 --> 02:03:44,760
enemies, right?

1376
02:03:44,760 --> 02:03:54,460
And maybe some friends in the process and yet the whole project now cannot go forward because then and the whole political fight gets fought off in a different level.

1377
02:03:54,640 --> 02:03:56,320
We don't think that makes sense.

1378
02:03:57,020 --> 02:04:08,040
And so we do think if you were going to move forward this bill, you would want to exempt situations where the local government is providing land as part of the matching project together.

1379
02:04:08,040 --> 02:04:13,260
other situation we think of is we dispose of land and often it's through a competitive

1380
02:04:13,260 --> 02:04:18,940
sealed bid process. And if the federal government was to win that process, we wouldn't be

1381
02:04:18,940 --> 02:04:25,600
able to complete it. And we think that ought to be exempted as well when we're putting up

1382
02:04:25,600 --> 02:04:30,160
the land up for a competitive bid, a competitive auction type situation.

1383
02:04:30,400 --> 02:04:35,540
Well, Representative Capricolione said he's working on a substitute, so I assume that you

1384
02:04:35,540 --> 02:04:41,000
and he and other interests as stakeholders can get together and work on these valid.

1385
02:04:41,420 --> 02:04:46,480
Well, they've been most gracious with their time with us before today and we look forward to that conversation.

1386
02:04:46,760 --> 02:04:48,620
Well, they'll continue to be that way.

1387
02:04:49,860 --> 02:04:51,000
Members, any other questions?

1388
02:04:51,900 --> 02:04:53,480
Thank you very much for your testimony.

1389
02:04:53,920 --> 02:04:54,580
Thank you.

1390
02:04:55,580 --> 02:04:59,920
Is anyone else's rest or speak on for against House Bill 999?

1391
02:05:00,000 --> 02:05:05,500
Section 7. Not we'll call on, represent, completely on, to close on, to be all.

1392
02:05:06,040 --> 02:05:12,440
Okay. Mr. Chairman, members, thank you for considering House Bill 997 and I close.

1393
02:05:13,000 --> 02:05:19,900
We look forward to working with you. I know what you're trying to accomplish here, so we're going to continue to.

1394
02:05:20,400 --> 02:05:29,000
Because I think there's been, you're probably, we're already aware, but I think there's some really valid issues that are being brought up, and we need to really think through it.

1395
02:05:29,560 --> 02:05:33,120
I'd be happy to work with all the members and the other witnesses.

1396
02:05:33,300 --> 02:05:34,040
Thank you very much.

1397
02:05:34,120 --> 02:05:37,320
This time, Chair's intent to leave House Bill 997 pending.

1398
02:05:38,280 --> 02:05:44,660
Chair ladies out, House Bill 2962, and calls on Representative Capricoli to explain his bill.

1399
02:05:45,000 --> 02:05:46,440
Thank you, Mr. Chairman and members.

1400
02:05:46,660 --> 02:05:47,700
Now for something completely different.

1401
02:05:48,740 --> 02:05:50,680
Thank you for the opportunity to address the committee.

1402
02:05:51,340 --> 02:05:57,100
Today, I'm here to speak to you about House Bill 2962, which is my Medical Transparency Bill,

1403
02:05:57,100 --> 02:06:01,100
which provide more accurate disclosure of abortion complication reporting.

1404
02:06:01,640 --> 02:06:17,920
House bill 2962 would require hospitals, emergency care facilities, and abortion clinics to report quarterly any complication or injury resulting from an abortion as a specific complication of abortion, rather than a general complication of maternal health, which has been the typical practice.

1405
02:06:19,020 --> 02:06:26,860
Current reporting laws apply only to abortion providers and facilities, which then directs patients with complications to report to the emergency room.

1406
02:06:27,440 --> 02:06:31,460
Separating abortion complications from maternal health statistics provides a more accurate

1407
02:06:31,460 --> 02:06:35,860
picture of both maternal health and the after-effects of abortion in Texas.

1408
02:06:36,700 --> 02:06:40,880
This bill would require the Department of State Health Services to develop a form for

1409
02:06:40,880 --> 02:06:46,220
reporting any abortion complication by January 1, 2018 and publish the form on its website.

1410
02:06:46,920 --> 02:06:52,040
Each report must include, if known, the date of abortion, the type of abortion, the gestational

1411
02:06:52,040 --> 02:06:56,620
age of the fetus, the name and type of facility in which the abortion was performed, the date

1412
02:06:56,620 --> 02:07:00,660
the complication was treated, the treating facility, the description of the complication,

1413
02:07:01,140 --> 02:07:04,220
and the number of previous live births and abortions of the patient.

1414
02:07:04,840 --> 02:07:09,400
The information is confidential and may not be released except for statistical purposes,

1415
02:07:09,820 --> 02:07:13,120
providing that a physician, patient, or facility is not identified.

1416
02:07:13,560 --> 02:07:17,320
The Department of State Health Services will publish annually on its website.

1417
02:07:17,460 --> 02:07:20,640
The complication is described on a statewide basis.

1418
02:07:21,820 --> 02:07:25,940
Data-driven medicine is the key to protecting the health and safety of women.

1419
02:07:25,940 --> 02:07:32,520
by accurately identifying and attributing abortion complications to abortion and not maternal health.

1420
02:07:32,740 --> 02:07:35,640
We can determine the strengths and weaknesses in our abortion law,

1421
02:07:35,780 --> 02:07:41,260
responding with appropriate legislation if and when necessary to protect the health and safety of women.

1422
02:07:41,780 --> 02:07:44,320
Legislation that can with the end judicial scrutiny.

1423
02:07:44,960 --> 02:07:50,880
Members, there's a committee substitute to remove doctors and individual health practitioners from the reporting requirement.

1424
02:07:51,360 --> 02:07:53,940
Some health care facilities unlikely to treat-

1425
02:07:55,000 --> 02:07:56,640
Yeah, can I lay that committee substitute?

1426
02:08:00,420 --> 02:08:02,780
Okay, and so I'll talk about the committee substitute.

1427
02:08:03,340 --> 02:08:05,280
And what it does is it removes doctors and

1428
02:08:05,280 --> 02:08:08,480
individual health practitioners from the reporting requirement.

1429
02:08:08,880 --> 02:08:13,620
Some health care facilities unlikely to treat abortion complications have also been removed from the bill.

1430
02:08:14,120 --> 02:08:22,860
And there are no longer any criminal penalties instead of civil violation resulting in a fine of $500 with a possible license revocation on the third strike.

1431
02:08:22,860 --> 02:08:31,120
Last summer, the Supreme Court struck down portions of HB2 saying that we lacked the data demonstrating the need for these regulations.

1432
02:08:31,680 --> 02:08:40,400
We had anecdotal data but lacked empirical data because hospitals and other facilities were not required to report abortion complications apart from maternal health.

1433
02:08:40,760 --> 02:08:49,580
This bill will ensure that in the future we do have the data to support any future legislative or regulatory responses, the state finds necessary to protect the health and safety of women.

1434
02:08:50,740 --> 02:09:08,380
I know I'm talking about the committee's substitute, but I do plan, if we get this on the floor that also have a floor amendment that would address the concerns that some have by allowing the Commissioner Rulemaking Authority to streamline the reports and ensure that we don't have duplication.

1435
02:09:08,380 --> 02:09:13,020
Members, this bill is about transparency, it's about getting information, it's about getting

1436
02:09:13,020 --> 02:09:17,800
information related to a very important topic that does help safety and health of women.

1437
02:09:18,640 --> 02:09:23,420
And we do want to point out that some of these data is already collected, it's by a rule

1438
02:09:23,420 --> 02:09:30,420
this would go and essentially make the law, which would get us the data that we do want, it

1439
02:09:30,420 --> 02:09:36,180
would have more compliance, it would also protect the privacy of the patients, the doctors

1440
02:09:36,180 --> 02:09:40,760
was in the facilities. So, anyway, ready to answer any questions if there are any.

1441
02:09:45,320 --> 02:09:51,840
Thank you, Jim's Chairman. Do you know if a some kind of reporting is currently required

1442
02:09:52,300 --> 02:09:59,840
in current law? So, there's current rule, and it's a rule by DSHS and

1443
02:10:00,000 --> 02:10:29,620
I've gone and I've looked at that form. I don't think a lot of people know that that information has to be filled out. And so what we're doing is it this will hopefully, given the guidance that we would have in a floor amendment that's not here today, we would say, hey, get rid of any duplicate reporting. So that other one, that's not really being filled out replaced with this one. And it is right now. It's a rule within. Okay. And this would put it in statute. It would go and put it into statute.

1444
02:10:29,620 --> 02:10:36,080
And this is about reporting correctly, and they would report this quarterly, there's a difference, right?

1445
02:10:36,300 --> 02:10:41,220
So just the main difference is there's a facility that would report to dishes quarterly, and

1446
02:10:41,220 --> 02:10:44,220
dishes would publish their statewide report on their website annually.

1447
02:10:44,740 --> 02:10:50,260
The latest international classification of diseases, billing codes already have the specific codes.

1448
02:10:50,260 --> 02:10:55,740
You need to identify abortion complications, but they aren't all in compliance because it isn't required by statute.

1449
02:10:55,740 --> 02:10:57,020
There is a rule, not a law,

1450
02:10:57,480 --> 02:10:59,340
according to the hospital's report complications,

1451
02:10:59,560 --> 02:11:01,740
but if you know about it or do it,

1452
02:11:02,140 --> 02:11:03,580
and we do have a resource witness

1453
02:11:03,580 --> 02:11:05,320
from dishes that can probably serve more to them.

1454
02:11:05,360 --> 02:11:07,100
They're really trying to codify what there's a rule

1455
02:11:07,100 --> 02:11:07,860
that you're trying to codify.

1456
02:11:07,880 --> 02:11:09,940
And to try and get that data, because the issue is,

1457
02:11:10,080 --> 02:11:11,420
if you don't have all of the data,

1458
02:11:11,600 --> 02:11:13,400
then it's hard to make a statistical inference

1459
02:11:13,400 --> 02:11:14,440
in terms of what this happened.

1460
02:11:14,640 --> 02:11:16,940
I mean, if you go back and we do want to find out,

1461
02:11:17,040 --> 02:11:19,020
I think we all want to find out if there are complications

1462
02:11:19,020 --> 02:11:22,040
from any procedure that we have the data

1463
02:11:22,040 --> 02:11:23,240
that we'll be able to go and address them.

1464
02:11:23,780 --> 02:11:23,980
Thank you.

1465
02:11:26,140 --> 02:11:27,140
Any other questions?

1466
02:11:27,780 --> 02:11:29,220
No, we'll go ahead and start calling witnesses.

1467
02:11:29,880 --> 02:11:33,920
Kylie Wright, Texas for life and South here to testify for the bill.

1468
02:11:37,360 --> 02:11:41,340
Good afternoon and thank you, Mr. Chairman and Madam Vice Chair.

1469
02:11:41,920 --> 02:11:48,080
I'm Kylie Wright, the President of Texans for life, and I'm testifying half of Texans for life and myself in favor of the bill.

1470
02:11:48,920 --> 02:11:55,340
Current law requiring abortion complication recording is currently all on the abortion clinics.

1471
02:11:55,340 --> 02:12:22,760
but as Representative Capricleon said that the abortion clinics advise their patients to go straight to the emergency room if there's a complication and said they don't report it and we had two doctors testified during the 83rd session when we were debating hospital-emitting privileges and ASC requirements that testified they were not aware of this dishes rule had no mechanism or form.

1472
02:12:22,760 --> 02:12:29,760
But now we have it in the ICD codes, the billing codes that doctors use, this kind of specificity.

1473
02:12:31,620 --> 02:12:40,260
And so we're able to require this kind of reporting and get the data that we need without being overly burdensome on facilities.

1474
02:12:41,100 --> 02:12:51,400
Dr. Fine, the Medical Director for Planned Parenthood of Gulf Coast testified also in federal court in 2013 about a higher rate of complications that we're seeing.

1475
02:12:51,400 --> 02:13:04,520
I believe that according to a representative from dishes the average number of complication reports on the form that they currently receive annually is about 30 and we know that from Dr.

1476
02:13:04,740 --> 02:13:20,770
Fein's testimony that it's much higher and also we know from a we in 2013 there was just a dearth of current studies about abortion complications, but there was one released in 2014 that

1477
02:13:20,770 --> 02:13:32,770
that tracked, California's Medicaid abortion patients, and because it paid for the abortions as well as the aftercare, they were able to track complications.

1478
02:13:33,890 --> 02:13:45,430
And that's great, that subset that they tracked was similar in number to the number of abortions we had in the year that we have the most current numbers for.

1479
02:13:45,430 --> 02:13:53,190
their numbers were a little over 54,000, and we had, for instance, in 2014, a little over 53,000.

1480
02:13:54,270 --> 02:14:04,790
And what they found is almost a 2% rate of complications from these women in 2009 and 2010.

1481
02:14:05,810 --> 02:14:10,350
126 of those were major complications requiring surgery or blood transfusions,

1482
02:14:10,350 --> 02:14:14,230
and a little over a thousand were minor complications.

1483
02:14:14,890 --> 02:14:18,230
We don't know because we don't have that kind of data.

1484
02:14:18,370 --> 02:14:19,070
We can't compare.

1485
02:14:19,270 --> 02:14:24,690
We don't have any way of knowing if abortions are safer or more at risk.

1486
02:14:25,550 --> 02:14:30,950
It's more difficult without the data to even track the hot pockets of your problems

1487
02:14:30,950 --> 02:14:32,570
and for dishes to respond.

1488
02:14:33,150 --> 02:14:35,230
So this would be important data.

1489
02:14:35,230 --> 02:14:45,550
It would better inform our state's legislative approaches as well as our policy and help

1490
02:14:45,550 --> 02:14:51,750
us to defend it if necessary judiciously or otherwise.

1491
02:14:53,210 --> 02:14:59,770
You know, several years ago, someone in my family was diagnosed with a serious and chronic

1492
02:15:00,000 --> 02:15:25,980
And what my mother told me then was good advice for us now, and she said, get all the information before you make any decisions go out and get all the information. And so that's what we're asking for here is that we have a mechanism, a better mechanism for getting all of the information so that we can make better decisions and ensure that we are protecting the health and safety of women who seek abortions in Texas.

1493
02:15:26,920 --> 02:15:28,120
Any questions?

1494
02:15:28,760 --> 02:15:29,660
No questions?

1495
02:15:30,260 --> 02:15:30,600
Thank you.

1496
02:15:33,710 --> 02:15:34,690
Blake Rokap.

1497
02:15:48,440 --> 02:15:49,860
Good afternoon, Mr. Chairman.

1498
02:15:50,220 --> 02:15:50,600
Members of the committee.

1499
02:15:50,700 --> 02:15:51,620
My name is Blake Rokap.

1500
02:15:51,800 --> 02:15:54,220
I'm a legislative council for an area of pro-choice

1501
02:15:54,220 --> 02:15:57,480
Texas and I'm testifying against House Bill 2962.

1502
02:15:58,360 --> 02:16:04,080
We don't have any opposition to reporting requirements generally and better reporting.

1503
02:16:04,240 --> 02:16:10,000
We agree with Representative Capricoli that better reporting and better data can lead to better health outcomes.

1504
02:16:10,000 --> 02:16:21,940
Unfortunately, this bill makes the reporting mechanism worse by defining what is to be reported and who is to report it in ways that are not helpful.

1505
02:16:23,660 --> 02:16:30,740
I was surprised to learn that people believe that there's no obligation for hospitals to report abortion complications.

1506
02:16:31,000 --> 02:16:38,820
DSHS has a form, certainly the members of the Hospital Association and I speak to are well aware of that requirement.

1507
02:16:38,820 --> 02:16:42,140
And if that's not being done, that's a different problem.

1508
02:16:43,440 --> 02:16:48,600
So I'll note a couple of technical issues that I have with the bill, and suggestions

1509
02:16:48,600 --> 02:16:53,460
for ways it could be improved to really get at greater transparency in the data.

1510
02:16:54,720 --> 02:17:01,640
The new definition of abortion complication no longer includes abortions that are self-induced.

1511
02:17:02,160 --> 02:17:06,400
And with the closure of more than half of the licensed clinics in the state of Texas,

1512
02:17:07,500 --> 02:17:23,220
We expect that those complications would be more prevalent and we shouldn't just be capturing the complications that are related to an abortion where a patient actually made it to the clinic, but should capture the whole public health issue,

1513
02:17:23,220 --> 02:17:27,640
to a home maternal public health issue that also involves self-induced abortions.

1514
02:17:28,120 --> 02:17:33,620
And this bill, specific, seems to exclude that, where the current rule does not.

1515
02:17:33,960 --> 02:17:38,620
The current rule includes reporting complications on all abortions.

1516
02:17:40,760 --> 02:17:49,880
The narrowing from the, and the definition of the facilities who are required to make the report an exclusion of medical doctors,

1517
02:17:49,880 --> 02:17:57,960
that while the incidents may not be high in Representative Capricoli and may have a good reason to do that in his substitute,

1518
02:17:58,400 --> 02:18:00,340
that doesn't give us the best data, right?

1519
02:18:00,820 --> 02:18:04,880
If you have your maternal fetal health specialist,

1520
02:18:05,380 --> 02:18:10,640
refers you to a clinic and you have your procedure by a skilled surgeon in that clinic,

1521
02:18:11,240 --> 02:18:15,720
and then you have a complication and you call your original referring physician,

1522
02:18:16,180 --> 02:18:18,820
well, now that physician doesn't have to report the complication.

1523
02:18:18,820 --> 02:18:27,380
So we should be capturing all that data, and I know the TMA doesn't like that because it puts an obligation on their members, but if we're truly going to capture the data, let's do it.

1524
02:18:27,940 --> 02:18:30,980
I mean, let's capture all the data we can.

1525
02:18:31,080 --> 02:18:37,380
So let's not exclude physicians or urgent care facilities where people might seek care from these reporting requirements.

1526
02:18:40,450 --> 02:18:58,890
There is no, I don't quite understand this in the bill, but there's no requirement that the facility that makes the report, that the type of facility making the report is included, it seems to me another important data point would be, where do people go for care if they have a complication?

1527
02:18:59,010 --> 02:19:05,370
That's something that I think the state would want to know, you would want to know as policymakers and the folks who in research would also want to know.

1528
02:19:05,370 --> 02:19:05,410
So

1529
02:19:07,940 --> 02:19:29,000
the quarterly reports and what is reported to the Department of State Health Services also does not require the, or perhaps specifically excludes reporting the name of the physician and says we should only be reporting the name of the licensed facility where the abortion took place.

1530
02:19:29,160 --> 02:19:36,720
If there's a bad doctor out there who's performing unsafe abortions, we all want to know about that.

1531
02:19:36,720 --> 02:19:45,620
We should be reporting that and the Department of State Health Services can refer them to TMB if we see a high rate of complication incidents.

1532
02:19:45,820 --> 02:19:59,160
We shouldn't be hiding that and no one is in favor of that and this bill specifically excludes that and I think it could be better if we were reporting not just the facilities but the physicians as well in our complications reporting.

1533
02:20:03,150 --> 02:20:33,090
There's no limit in this bill to time or geography of the original procedure, which may not be much of a big deal, but if you see a patient, and they say, oh, I had this procedure many years ago, but they have damaged the reproductive organs, it's unclear. Does that get reported? And then also, how is that going to be aggregated in what the Department of State Health Services publishes? You have some duplication in the definition, such that a single complication could be

1534
02:20:33,090 --> 02:20:34,750
be reported multiple times.

1535
02:20:34,750 --> 02:20:39,950
I'll give you an example in the bill, in the first paragraph, and I'm reading from the substitute here,

1536
02:20:39,950 --> 02:20:42,250
which I'm also opposed to intensifying against.

1537
02:20:42,990 --> 02:20:47,330
Number two is uterine perforation, and number ten is damaged to the uterus.

1538
02:20:47,690 --> 02:20:51,750
And I don't know if those have different ICD-9 codes, but if they were both reported,

1539
02:20:52,410 --> 02:20:57,150
you'd have reported two incidents of complication, but it would truly be a single incident.

1540
02:20:57,430 --> 02:21:02,310
So you have a problem where this could lead to inaccurate and inflated reporting.

1541
02:21:06,100 --> 02:21:08,980
I think there are some good things in the substitute.

1542
02:21:09,220 --> 02:21:13,820
Obviously, the removal of criminal penalties for a paperwork issue, we're in favor of doing that.

1543
02:21:14,320 --> 02:21:17,880
It's a good idea to mandate that the agency published this data.

1544
02:21:18,500 --> 02:21:21,860
Some of you may recall we've in the past had difficulty getting data.

1545
02:21:22,400 --> 02:21:26,300
Researchers have difficulty getting data about women's health and

1546
02:21:26,300 --> 02:21:30,020
the access to healthcare because it makes the center and also look bad.

1547
02:21:30,260 --> 02:21:32,520
So it's good that we make the agency publish those numbers.

1548
02:21:37,170 --> 02:21:39,130
I believe that's all the comments I have.

1549
02:21:39,250 --> 02:21:39,890
Thank you for your time.

1550
02:21:40,090 --> 02:21:41,190
Members, any questions?

1551
02:21:42,210 --> 02:21:44,470
Thank you for being here, and thank you for your testimony.

1552
02:21:44,690 --> 02:21:50,550
We'll call Joe Poyman, Executive Director of Texas Alliance for Life here to speak for the bill.

1553
02:21:57,340 --> 02:21:58,620
Thank you, Mr. Chairman, members.

1554
02:21:59,340 --> 02:22:03,360
My name is Dr. Joe Poyman, I'm Executive Director of Texas Alliance for Life.

1555
02:22:03,680 --> 02:22:07,320
I'm here representing that organization to speak in favor of the bill.

1556
02:22:07,320 --> 02:22:15,500
We believe that the public and the legislature has a right to accurate information about induced abortions in Texas, including complications.

1557
02:22:16,700 --> 02:22:33,760
The Department of State Health Services makes available the report of complications and I have for you the latest report from the Department of State Health Services and if you flip to the back, it has complications that are reported to them, so these are from their website.

1558
02:22:33,760 --> 02:22:45,600
Like, latest year 2015, if you add up the complications, it comes to a total of 25 out of nearly

1559
02:22:45,600 --> 02:22:57,040
53,000 abortions. So that corresponds to a rate of 0.047 percent. That kind of strikes

1560
02:22:57,040 --> 02:23:07,300
us as possibly low. So we compared that to a very reputable study. I've been told

1561
02:23:07,300 --> 02:23:13,200
it's a gold standard study of complications of abortion, and it was published in 2009,

1562
02:23:13,540 --> 02:23:20,900
obstetrics and gynecology. I have a copy of that for you. It was a study in Finland,

1563
02:23:23,740 --> 02:23:27,020
and

1564
02:23:27,020 --> 02:23:31,420
the American College of Obstetricians and Kind of Colleges. So that study did

1565
02:23:31,420 --> 02:23:36,620
complications in Finland, which is an interesting place to study because for

1566
02:23:36,620 --> 02:23:41,240
several reasons, one, abortions paid for by the state, all abortions there are

1567
02:23:41,240 --> 02:23:47,660
done in hospitals, all abortions in hospitals, and the women are tracked in the

1568
02:23:47,660 --> 02:23:53,420
system so that if they present later in a hospital, they're going to show up in

1569
02:23:53,420 --> 02:24:02,300
the health registry. So the complications rate of abortions in this study, the way it breaks

1570
02:24:02,300 --> 02:24:10,260
down is for medical, in other words drug induced abortions, a 20% complication rate, and for surgical

1571
02:24:10,260 --> 02:24:19,700
abortions, 5.7% complication rate. So in their study of about 22,000 drug induced abortions,

1572
02:24:19,700 --> 02:24:23,740
is that corresponds to 4,400 some complications.

1573
02:24:25,140 --> 02:24:28,920
And for surgical abortions, that was more than 20,000 abortions.

1574
02:24:28,920 --> 02:24:33,600
That corresponds to more than 1,000 complications from the surgical abortions.

1575
02:24:33,980 --> 02:24:37,680
Again, you compare that what the Department of State Health Services has reported,

1576
02:24:37,780 --> 02:24:42,040
because this is reported to them by the abortion providers, only 25.

1577
02:24:43,020 --> 02:24:48,520
So I think this indicates that there's a need for a better mechanism for getting data.

1578
02:24:49,000 --> 02:24:54,900
I think this bill will accomplish that to a very large extent, and we strongly support this bill.

1579
02:24:54,900 --> 02:24:56,000
All members,

1580
02:24:58,820 --> 02:24:59,220
any questions?

1581
02:25:00,000 --> 02:25:02,780
No questions. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

1582
02:25:06,230 --> 02:25:07,670
Julie Chicoigne,

1583
02:25:09,860 --> 02:25:15,280
come on to Senior General Counsel, Texas Hospital Association. Yes.

1584
02:25:20,580 --> 02:25:38,020
Go ahead. My name is Julie Shaquan. I'm the General Counsel. Very close. On behalf of the Texas Hospital Association, which is neutral regarding House Bill 2962, but seeks to offer testimony regarding House Bill 2962. As you know, we represent more than

1585
02:25:38,020 --> 02:25:48,640
And 450 Texas hospitals around the state, and in evaluating this bill, we are concerned that it creates unnecessary regulatory burden.

1586
02:25:48,840 --> 02:25:55,780
We've looked at the fact that there are currently four other reforms that require the same or similar information.

1587
02:25:56,060 --> 02:26:04,680
And so being practical folks, and mindful of the fact that this information is already needing to be collected,

1588
02:26:04,680 --> 02:26:08,660
that there might be an opportunity to simplify things.

1589
02:26:09,140 --> 02:26:15,160
And so we appreciate the amendment recommended or suggested by the representative.

1590
02:26:15,680 --> 02:26:18,200
Towards that end, we would also suggest and

1591
02:26:18,200 --> 02:26:33,480
welcome the opportunity for the Department of State Health Services to convene a work group that would include hospitals and physicians and the Department of State Health Services to simplify all of these forms and consolidate them in a metric that meets everybody's needs.

1592
02:26:34,680 --> 02:26:35,800
Okay, remember any questions?

1593
02:26:36,740 --> 02:26:39,060
No questions, thank you for being here for your testimony.

1594
02:26:39,700 --> 02:26:40,420
Jennifer Olamin,

1595
02:26:42,480 --> 02:26:45,660
Texas Catholic Conference of Bishops, here to speak for the bill.

1596
02:26:49,450 --> 02:26:51,870
Sorry, I've got a throat issue today.

1597
02:26:52,030 --> 02:26:55,670
I'm Jennifer Olamin and I'm the executive director of a Texas Catholic Conference of Bishops.

1598
02:26:55,830 --> 02:26:56,770
And we do support the bill.

1599
02:26:57,170 --> 02:27:01,790
As you've heard from other witnesses, the intention and goal of the bill is to gather accurate and transparent data.

1600
02:27:02,330 --> 02:27:07,410
There have been a couple of comments making questions about why is this needed if there's already reporting going on.

1601
02:27:07,410 --> 02:27:13,390
And we think that there's kind of a loophole in the current reporting because it doesn't require the greatest level of specificity.

1602
02:27:13,810 --> 02:27:24,390
So while they might be reporting that there's a uterine perforation, we don't necessarily know that the uterine perforation is connected to an abortion and where that abortion took place.

1603
02:27:24,930 --> 02:27:31,230
And so this reporting gets that specificity using the new ICD-10 codes which helps us to have more accurate data.

1604
02:27:31,230 --> 02:27:41,450
And so we appreciate Representative Capricoli-owned filing the bill and working with hospitals and others involved to get accurate data without adding extra burdens and extra reporting systems.

1605
02:27:41,790 --> 02:27:48,610
We support the idea of streamlining the reporting to use existing mechanisms and systems, but to get the accurate code and

1606
02:27:48,610 --> 02:27:51,490
complication data in the existing reporting mechanisms.

1607
02:27:52,430 --> 02:27:53,590
Members, any questions?

1608
02:27:54,810 --> 02:27:55,350
Thank you, Jennifer.

1609
02:27:55,350 --> 02:27:56,410
Thank you.

1610
02:27:59,450 --> 02:28:03,890
Is there anybody else here that we speak on for against House Bill 2962?

1611
02:28:05,310 --> 02:28:07,850
Not we'll call on the representative,

1612
02:28:08,230 --> 02:28:09,550
completely on the close on his bill.

1613
02:28:10,170 --> 02:28:10,290
Great.

1614
02:28:11,010 --> 02:28:13,230
Thank you again, Mr. Chairman and members.

1615
02:28:13,730 --> 02:28:17,750
I just wanted to address maybe a couple of points that have come up from a previous witness.

1616
02:28:18,910 --> 02:28:24,350
In terms of whether the facility type was included or the date and so on.

1617
02:28:24,410 --> 02:28:27,830
And so I just wanted to and I know I speak quickly, so maybe I'll just go slower.

1618
02:28:29,030 --> 02:28:33,130
The types of information that will be required is the date of the abortion.

1619
02:28:33,610 --> 02:28:37,910
Obviously, you'll know the date that it is, so you'll be able to see how long ago that abortion occurred.

1620
02:28:38,450 --> 02:28:47,930
The type of abortion, the gestational age of the fetus, the name and type of facility in which the abortion was performed, so that information would in fact be there.

1621
02:28:48,470 --> 02:28:56,630
The date the complication was treated, the treating facility, the description of the complication, and the number of previous live births and abortions of the patients.

1622
02:28:57,170 --> 02:29:06,830
The ultimate goal of this bill is quite frankly and just simply to go and get the information so that we can make positive policy decisions based upon that data.

1623
02:29:07,330 --> 02:29:12,170
Sounds like everybody that came here was willing to give us good ideas on how we could improve the bill.

1624
02:29:12,970 --> 02:29:17,090
Be more than happy to include additional items inside the bill.

1625
02:29:17,730 --> 02:29:25,430
I know obviously some positions would not like to have that information probably disclosed, but it sounds like some facilities might.

1626
02:29:25,430 --> 02:29:31,890
And so I would probably think about adding that option in there as an amendment that being said.

1627
02:29:32,070 --> 02:29:33,290
I don't know if there are any other questions.

1628
02:29:33,930 --> 02:29:34,710
Members, any questions?

1629
02:29:35,350 --> 02:29:35,910
Bill Poisson.

1630
02:29:36,130 --> 02:29:37,050
Thank you very much.

1631
02:29:37,110 --> 02:29:37,690
Thank you Mr. Chair.

1632
02:29:37,810 --> 02:29:42,470
I wish you this time of chair with your office committee substitute to House Bill 2962.

1633
02:29:42,850 --> 02:29:45,490
It's a chair's intent to leave House Bill 2962 pending.

1634
02:29:46,070 --> 02:29:50,230
Members, we have a couple of bills that just have one witness and guys have been here for quite some time.

1635
02:29:50,750 --> 02:29:52,150
And then we got one with eight.

1636
02:29:52,290 --> 02:29:54,910
So what we're going to do is go ahead and take up a House Bill.

1637
02:29:54,910 --> 02:29:57,510
of 1522 by Representative White.

1638
02:29:57,970 --> 02:29:58,870
General White.

1639
02:29:59,130 --> 02:29:59,930
Thank you very much.

1640
02:30:00,020 --> 02:30:29,980
Mr. Chairman, vice chairman and rest of the committee members. Just got a short bill here. Don't think it's very controversial, but I guess we'll see about that. Chairman and members House Bill 1522 seeks to create a task force that focuses on strengthening parent engagement with their children. The task force will bring together the commissioners from the Department of Family Services, Texas Education Agency, the directors of Texas Workforce Commission.

1641
02:30:30,960 --> 02:30:34,340
TDCJ, TJJD, and the Attorney General's Child Support Division.

1642
02:30:34,660 --> 02:30:46,240
A representative from the County Juvenile Board or probation, a representative from a faith-based organization and two parent stakeholders will also join the task force under the leadership of an executive director.

1643
02:30:46,920 --> 02:30:53,440
The purpose of the task force, Mr. Chairman, is to coordinate between parents and agencies that provide services to our Texas youth.

1644
02:30:53,440 --> 02:30:59,800
Group, the group will compile best practices and provide Texas, Texas parents and others,

1645
02:30:59,980 --> 02:31:03,860
the resources they need to nurture the next generation of outstanding Texans.

1646
02:31:04,500 --> 02:31:10,180
The difference, Mr. Chairman, between the original and the-

1647
02:31:10,180 --> 02:31:11,960
Well, you have a different laid one.

1648
02:31:11,960 --> 02:31:12,600
Okay, understand.

1649
02:31:13,080 --> 02:31:13,760
So-

1650
02:31:14,580 --> 02:31:16,000
You can talk about what it would do.

1651
02:31:16,160 --> 02:31:21,440
Okay, yes, a sub would just do two minor things.

1652
02:31:21,440 --> 02:31:35,180
Obviously, it adds in that A.G. child support division representative, and we want to make sure we have someone from the parent community that had some intersection with some of these issues on that committee, sir.

1653
02:31:35,880 --> 02:31:40,240
And I respectfully preserve the right to close very quickly.

1654
02:31:43,500 --> 02:31:43,900
Hello,

1655
02:31:54,710 --> 02:31:58,870
my name is Kelly O'Quinn. I am here representing Children at Risk for Houseville

1656
02:31:59,350 --> 02:32:03,570
1522. Chairman Cook and committee members, thank you again for the opportunity to be

1657
02:32:03,570 --> 02:32:08,550
here today and speak with you about this. It's very clear that the state of Texas values

1658
02:32:08,550 --> 02:32:12,950
the important role of parenting. Through our research, we know that parents are vital to

1659
02:32:12,950 --> 02:32:17,570
their children's well-being and long-term success. For this reason, I come in support of House

1660
02:32:18,570 --> 02:32:24,310
which one to give a special thank you to Chairman White and Representative Allen for their support and dedication to this bill.

1661
02:32:25,970 --> 02:32:32,730
Currently, there are six key agencies that invest public dollars in parents through either parent education programs or family engagement activities.

1662
02:32:33,330 --> 02:32:43,710
The Texas Workforce Commission, Texas Education Agency, the Department of Family and Protective Services, the Texas Department of Criminal Justice, the Texas Criminal Justice Department, and the OAG.

1663
02:32:44,590 --> 02:32:50,810
These agencies work to support both mothers and fathers as they work to become better parents.

1664
02:32:51,490 --> 02:32:56,210
However, there's little understanding about how parents are being engaged or educated when they interact with multiple agencies.

1665
02:32:57,270 --> 02:33:06,590
For example, if a child is in the CPS system and a family is trying to keep that child in school, what a line supports are offered or if a parent is in jail,

1666
02:33:06,590 --> 02:33:09,850
The other parent is receiving TWC Workforce and Child Care

1667
02:33:09,850 --> 02:33:12,690
supports and another child is in a Title I school.

1668
02:33:14,610 --> 02:33:17,210
What supports for those families are aligned or other

1669
02:33:17,210 --> 02:33:19,250
opportunities that are being missed to best support those families?

1670
02:33:20,190 --> 02:33:23,390
Or another example, if there's a non-custodial parent that is

1671
02:33:23,390 --> 02:33:26,690
receiving a parent education program through the OAG funded

1672
02:33:26,690 --> 02:33:30,590
programs and their child is in the justice system, what kind of

1673
02:33:30,590 --> 02:33:32,970
supports are there to help that parent effectively engage in their

1674
02:33:32,970 --> 02:33:34,390
child's rehabilitative process?

1675
02:33:34,390 --> 02:33:39,150
Yes, currently there's little coordination and communication between these agencies with

1676
02:33:39,150 --> 02:33:41,010
regards to parent education and family engagement.

1677
02:33:41,730 --> 02:33:43,550
These questions cannot be easily answered.

1678
02:33:44,750 --> 02:33:48,610
So for this reason, we come in support of creating a task force, composed of agency leadership.

1679
02:33:49,210 --> 02:33:54,150
The task force would work to increase communication and alignment of resources, activities and strategies

1680
02:33:54,150 --> 02:33:58,330
through which the state can maximize current investment and benefit more Texas families and children.

1681
02:33:59,110 --> 02:34:03,870
Specifically, they would be tasked with identifying gaps in services, identifying opportunities

1682
02:34:03,870 --> 02:34:08,090
for partnership and alignment, strategizing on how to best allocate dollars and resources,

1683
02:34:08,690 --> 02:34:12,590
and developing clear recommendations for how they can coordinate their work to best support and engage parents.

1684
02:34:13,410 --> 02:34:17,050
The task force and care is no fiscal note, would make valuable recommendations for

1685
02:34:17,050 --> 02:34:19,490
the state and local communities and sunsets in 2019.

1686
02:34:20,350 --> 02:34:23,950
Again, thank you, Chairman Cook, and committee, for your time, and I'm happy to answer any questions you may have.

1687
02:34:24,290 --> 02:34:25,130
Members, any questions?

1688
02:34:26,130 --> 02:34:26,850
No questions?

1689
02:34:27,170 --> 02:34:28,930
Thank you. Is there anyone else here who wishes?

1690
02:34:28,930 --> 02:34:33,010
this restry to speak on for against House Bill 1522.

1691
02:34:33,650 --> 02:34:35,990
I will call on Chairman White to close on his bill.

1692
02:34:36,410 --> 02:34:39,370
Mr. Chairman, members, if you don't have anything else for me, I'll close.

1693
02:34:39,970 --> 02:34:44,130
All right, this time's Chair's intent to leave House Bill 1522 pending.

1694
02:34:44,810 --> 02:34:51,310
Chair, ladies out, House Bill 1554, and calls on Chairman Zono to leave House Bill.

1695
02:35:04,910 --> 02:35:34,370
Thank you, Mr. Chairman and members. I have a committee substitute. We'll just, we'll do that later. Okay. You got it, sir. Okay, House Bill 1554 members relates to the smuggling of persons. This purpose of this bill is to discuss a problem in South Texas that affects the safety of our communities. And to go after the human smugglers known as Goyotes, that largely prey on immigrants. This is not an immigration bill.

1696
02:35:34,370 --> 02:35:50,490
So this is actually a humanitarian bill, our district attorney in my district will testify that document the problem that's going on in South Texas, where dead bodies are often found.

1697
02:35:51,430 --> 02:36:01,930
And in 2012 alone in one of our neighboring counties, 134 bodies were found, we must empower our law enforcement to go after the royalties.

1698
02:36:01,930 --> 02:36:07,210
This bill works by changing the requirements for seeking second and third degree felonies

1699
02:36:07,210 --> 02:36:08,110
against these criminals.

1700
02:36:08,710 --> 02:36:12,770
The first thing this bill does is to broaden the ability to seek a third degree felony

1701
02:36:13,650 --> 02:36:17,250
by removing the requirement to prove a pecuniary benefit.

1702
02:36:18,330 --> 02:36:22,530
And it adds trespassing on agricultural lands without the consent of landowners.

1703
02:36:23,770 --> 02:36:28,630
The reason for this is so that our district attorneys can seek charges against the coyotes.

1704
02:36:28,630 --> 02:36:33,690
is often times the victims are unable to be material witnesses.

1705
02:36:34,570 --> 02:36:40,890
They are often immediately taken to detention center or federal facility by immigration,

1706
02:36:40,950 --> 02:36:44,570
because many counties don't have the jail space or the funds to hold them.

1707
02:36:45,230 --> 02:36:47,870
As a result, victims are not available to be witnesses.

1708
02:36:49,310 --> 02:36:51,510
Almost impossible to prove pecuniary benefit.

1709
02:36:52,630 --> 02:36:55,210
It is often the case that the coyotes have threatened the victims,

1710
02:36:55,210 --> 02:37:01,410
or their families, or even promise them to bring them over a second time if they stay quiet.

1711
02:37:02,210 --> 02:37:06,710
The second provision adds the trespassing clause, which is important because many instances

1712
02:37:06,710 --> 02:37:11,390
of human smuggling occurs on large ranches in sub-Texas in the brush country.

1713
02:37:12,090 --> 02:37:17,250
Additionally, this will change as a requirement to seek a second degree felony, if any of

1714
02:37:17,250 --> 02:37:23,250
the above criteria are met and there is proof of pecuniary benefit and the coyote no only possesses

1715
02:37:23,250 --> 02:37:28,910
of firearm. And so it allows the DAs if they can't prove a pecuniary benefit because there's no

1716
02:37:28,910 --> 02:37:33,490
material witness to still go under after them under a third degree felony and that they can

1717
02:37:33,490 --> 02:37:37,190
prove a pecuniary benefit they can go after them on the second degree felony.

1718
02:37:39,010 --> 02:37:43,490
I believe I have our district attorney here to testify and maybe other witnesses but with that

1719
02:37:43,490 --> 02:37:48,370
members I'm ready to answer questions. No questions. We'll go ahead and call your thank you

1720
02:37:49,270 --> 02:37:50,670
Let's reserve the right to close.

1721
02:37:51,250 --> 02:37:56,870
John Hewert, District Attorney, Cleaver, Kennedy counties, here to speak for the bill.

1722
02:37:57,970 --> 02:37:59,030
Good afternoon, sir.

1723
02:37:59,690 --> 02:38:00,370
Good afternoon, sir.

1724
02:38:00,910 --> 02:38:02,750
I thank you very much for hearing me today.

1725
02:38:03,470 --> 02:38:08,430
I share, of course, a representative of the Lozano and a representative of Giants, an area.

1726
02:38:10,690 --> 02:38:15,250
This bill is yet another tool that will give us the ability to go after the coyotes.

1727
02:38:15,250 --> 02:38:23,390
This, the coyotes are renowned for, I don't have a better word than others say, merciless

1728
02:38:23,390 --> 02:38:28,770
and horrible behavior towards the people that they're transporting.

1729
02:38:29,630 --> 02:38:34,590
In these areas, such as agricultural land, such as in Kennedy County, we have vast areas

1730
02:38:34,590 --> 02:38:36,390
of land with no above ground water.

1731
02:38:37,130 --> 02:38:41,630
The people that they transport often are not prepared for this long trek and if they fall behind

1732
02:38:41,630 --> 02:38:48,690
they're left behind. Often they're all young women are victims of sexual assault. We know that

1733
02:38:48,690 --> 02:38:53,530
for a fact, we've got confessions from several and we've even been able to prosecute one case

1734
02:38:53,530 --> 02:38:59,290
that actually was very expensive for us to do but we were able to get our victim and bring her in

1735
02:38:59,290 --> 02:39:05,510
and hold her in the United States. But all of these cases are extremely, extremely expensive to

1736
02:39:05,510 --> 02:39:10,710
prosecute, expensive to keep our witnesses there, but something's got to be done because

1737
02:39:10,710 --> 02:39:15,110
in these vast tracts of land, when they're left behind, there is no brown water, there

1738
02:39:15,110 --> 02:39:19,970
is no route out, there is no help for the people in many areas, there's no, there's not

1739
02:39:19,970 --> 02:39:22,670
even cell phone coverage, but no help is seek to them.

1740
02:39:23,450 --> 02:39:31,510
What I brought with me today and I just made a duplicate of 18 files, these files are pictures

1741
02:39:31,510 --> 02:39:38,650
and situations from Kennedy County where 18 bodies or pieces of bodies were found in the brush.

1742
02:39:39,250 --> 02:39:44,850
These were human beings and we got to do something to prevent this type of behavior.

1743
02:39:45,730 --> 02:39:52,410
The bill does not, again, it's not an immigration bill, that's not our job as a district attorney.

1744
02:39:52,850 --> 02:39:57,390
Our job is to seek out bad people and try to prevent them from continuing to do bad things.

1745
02:39:57,390 --> 02:39:59,810
This also protects landowners.

1746
02:40:00,000 --> 02:40:29,980
Because what we have is we have people living in rural areas that will have a group of 10, 11 people come by their house, and it scares them. And if you're like me and you have two small kids and you're out there and you have a big group of people come by, they may be good, they may be bad, you don't know. But the problem is all you have is a class A misdemeanor for criminal trespassing. This way we can go after the coyote, after the guide, and if they carry a gun with them, that would, of course, increase our security to prevent them from carrying

1747
02:40:29,980 --> 02:40:32,920
but if they do have a gun, then we can heighten the punishment.

1748
02:40:33,320 --> 02:40:35,160
So I would strongly support this bill.

1749
02:40:35,500 --> 02:40:37,560
I can answer any questions you may have at this time,

1750
02:40:37,560 --> 02:40:40,860
but it's very important that we have yet another tool

1751
02:40:40,860 --> 02:40:42,480
to go after these guys.

1752
02:40:43,840 --> 02:40:47,720
So it's your testimony that this is going to be an effective tool?

1753
02:40:48,560 --> 02:40:51,440
Yes or I believe it's yet, it won't be a silver bullet.

1754
02:40:51,580 --> 02:40:52,480
There is no silver bullet.

1755
02:40:52,600 --> 02:40:54,340
There is no one thing that's going to stop it.

1756
02:40:54,460 --> 02:40:56,220
But right now we have a hard time,

1757
02:40:56,500 --> 02:40:58,140
again, proving pecuniary benefit

1758
02:40:58,140 --> 02:41:02,720
it because what happens is the victims, they don't want to talk about the guys that are

1759
02:41:02,720 --> 02:41:06,380
so mean to them because they're afraid that they're going to hurt them because they will

1760
02:41:06,380 --> 02:41:09,440
be held in custody by the U.S. for a while.

1761
02:41:09,880 --> 02:41:14,280
They don't want to say anything bad about the bad guy because the bad guy has reached back

1762
02:41:14,280 --> 02:41:17,080
into their own country and can take it out on their families.

1763
02:41:17,240 --> 02:41:21,580
They don't want to say anything bad about that guy because they probably saved up for six

1764
02:41:21,580 --> 02:41:25,780
months a year or two years to make this trip and they don't have the money to spend it back

1765
02:41:25,780 --> 02:41:30,220
back to spend it again or to save up again and sometimes, sometimes not all the time,

1766
02:41:30,360 --> 02:41:33,440
the guy will give them a cut rate deal on the second or third trip.

1767
02:41:34,400 --> 02:41:38,120
There's all sorts of reasons for them not to want to testify against the guy.

1768
02:41:38,300 --> 02:41:44,700
Even when they've been sexually assaulted or assaulted or intimidated, it's a problem.

1769
02:41:45,880 --> 02:41:49,800
What you can do about, do you have financial resources to prosecute?

1770
02:41:51,340 --> 02:41:53,380
That seems like that's a big challenge for you.

1771
02:41:53,380 --> 02:41:58,540
It's a huge challenge, keeping the victims local is,

1772
02:42:00,680 --> 02:42:02,680
it's a problem because what do we do?

1773
02:42:02,800 --> 02:42:06,860
Do we take these victims and then we keep them at a jail cell for, you know, two months,

1774
02:42:07,000 --> 02:42:10,200
three months, four months, five months, six months, while we have them waiting to testify,

1775
02:42:10,480 --> 02:42:15,960
as opposed to a federal detention facility, do we have, who do we keep, do we keep everybody,

1776
02:42:16,180 --> 02:42:21,380
do we just keep some, do we take a chance, it's a huge cost, it's a huge financial.

1777
02:42:21,380 --> 02:42:26,480
So, what happens is, often by the time we get the case, the feds have already deported

1778
02:42:26,480 --> 02:42:29,580
them or they're through another process or through another state.

1779
02:42:29,780 --> 02:42:34,480
I know in one case, in this last case, with the sexual assault, we actually used my credit

1780
02:42:34,480 --> 02:42:40,740
card to fly witness and the victim back into Texas from the Northeast.

1781
02:42:41,420 --> 02:42:44,540
And I was reimbursed, but you always kind of worry about that.

1782
02:42:45,140 --> 02:42:46,940
But it's that important to us.

1783
02:42:47,780 --> 02:42:51,940
Representative Guyana, I'm sure, he wants his people to be secure and he doesn't want

1784
02:42:51,940 --> 02:42:52,940
anybody hurt out there.

1785
02:42:53,720 --> 02:43:01,180
I know that Representative Luzano, that's one of the key priorities that people live in

1786
02:43:01,180 --> 02:43:06,340
those neighborhoods, or not, say neighborhoods, and those communities feel safe and secure

1787
02:43:06,340 --> 02:43:11,300
and we don't have 18 files up here next year.

1788
02:43:11,560 --> 02:43:15,440
Maybe we can cut it down to 10, if we can cut it down by 8 people.

1789
02:43:15,440 --> 02:43:16,000
I'd be happy.

1790
02:43:17,880 --> 02:43:19,440
Thank you, members, any questions?

1791
02:43:20,260 --> 02:43:20,840
No questions?

1792
02:43:21,020 --> 02:43:22,080
Thank you very much for your testimony.

1793
02:43:22,080 --> 02:43:27,780
Does anybody else here that's a rest your speak on for against a House Bill 1554?

1794
02:43:28,200 --> 02:43:32,500
If not, we'll call on Chairman Zonow to close on his bill.

1795
02:43:32,980 --> 02:43:33,240
Thank you.

1796
02:43:33,400 --> 02:43:33,960
Chairman, I close.

1797
02:43:34,420 --> 02:43:35,140
Unless you have any questions.

1798
02:43:35,680 --> 02:43:38,740
Mr. Chair, I intend to leave House Bill 1554 pending.

1799
02:43:38,960 --> 02:43:39,600
Thank you very much.

1800
02:43:39,680 --> 02:43:40,040
Thank you, Chairman.

1801
02:43:40,040 --> 02:43:46,220
Chair lays out House bill 770 and calls on where Davis to lay out a bill.

1802
02:43:50,460 --> 02:43:55,960
Thank you, Mr. Chairman and members, I appreciate an opportunity to lay on HV770.

1803
02:43:57,200 --> 02:44:02,220
What I'd like to say is our jobs bill, we've tried to pass for the last few sessions,

1804
02:44:02,220 --> 02:44:07,560
actually passed it a couple of times, and your committee is supporting the pass for some of the new members.

1805
02:44:07,560 --> 02:44:13,600
Of course, this is a bill to help us create an environment where we take care of Americans

1806
02:44:13,600 --> 02:44:20,180
first, make sure that we create as many jobs as we can, retain as many jobs as we can,

1807
02:44:20,340 --> 02:44:25,300
and restore the American prominence that we'd like to buy America first.

1808
02:44:25,480 --> 02:44:31,240
I will tell you that since this bill's been laid out, I've been contacted by a couple of

1809
02:44:31,240 --> 02:44:37,660
folks in that it's going to increase cost to consider buying or using American products,

1810
02:44:39,120 --> 02:44:44,660
buying American products, and we're going to review for their getting this information

1811
02:44:44,660 --> 02:44:52,040
because it makes no sense to me that if you plan to do a project and you buy an American

1812
02:44:52,040 --> 02:44:58,440
that it automatically increases the cost of a project to have the goods come from Americans.

1813
02:44:59,260 --> 02:45:00,000
Today, there are many-

1814
02:45:00,000 --> 02:45:08,180
The other states who have bi-americal preference provisions, Alabama, California, Colorado, Connecticut, Georgia, Illinois, Indiana,

1815
02:45:08,580 --> 02:45:15,840
Louisiana, Maine, Maryland, Massachusetts, Minnesota, Missouri, Montana, New Hampshire, New Jersey, New York, North Carolina,

1816
02:45:16,140 --> 02:45:21,840
North Dakota, Ohio, Oklahoma, Oregon, Pennsylvania, Rhode Island, South Carolina, West Virginia, and West

1817
02:45:21,840 --> 02:45:31,880
And I'm sure that this was something they did to help retain jobs in their states and try to make sure that they strengthen their dollar in their various communities.

1818
02:45:32,200 --> 02:45:41,280
So, again, all for HB770 that allows us to give preference and consideration for buying products that are made in America.

1819
02:45:41,620 --> 02:45:49,180
Now, it suggested their exceptions when we increase the cost of the project, or good that we're buying a Zata line.

1820
02:45:49,180 --> 02:45:54,140
in order if there's a superior product that we don't have available here in the U.S.

1821
02:45:54,380 --> 02:46:01,260
that we have exceptions so that we don't undermine the integrity of the original plans and products of what they're trying to do.

1822
02:46:01,820 --> 02:46:08,680
But we see this as an opportunity to reinvest in our communities, reinvest in our state and reinvest in America.

1823
02:46:08,880 --> 02:46:11,220
And with that, Mr. Chairman, I'm happy to answer any questions.

1824
02:46:11,740 --> 02:46:16,060
Thank you very much. Members, we have any questions? No questions? We'll go ahead and start calling.

1825
02:46:16,100 --> 02:46:16,380
Thank you.

1826
02:46:16,380 --> 02:46:20,220
I appreciate it. I'd like to close if you got it.

1827
02:46:21,380 --> 02:46:26,880
Steve Brezen, North Harris County Regional Water Authority, here's speak neutrally on the bill.

1828
02:46:27,240 --> 02:46:32,620
Thank you, Mr. Chairman and members. My name's Steve Brezen, and I'm here representing the North Harris County Regional Water Authority.

1829
02:46:33,460 --> 02:46:38,880
And we are neutral on the bill, but we do have some concerns.

1830
02:46:39,280 --> 02:46:46,200
Just to orient you, the North Harris County Regional Water Authority has about 660,000 people in it.

1831
02:46:46,200 --> 02:46:51,680
today's an extremely fast-growing area that runs from just on the west side of the city

1832
02:46:51,680 --> 02:46:59,940
of Umball around to 90 across the northern area of Harris County. In combination with

1833
02:46:59,940 --> 02:47:03,980
several other water authorities in the city of Houston, we're in the process of constructing

1834
02:47:03,980 --> 02:47:11,300
a giant water system that will ultimately cost several billion dollars that's predominantly

1835
02:47:11,300 --> 02:47:17,120
certainly almost overwhelmingly funded through the water financing programs at the Water

1836
02:47:17,120 --> 02:47:17,780
Development Board.

1837
02:47:18,380 --> 02:47:21,800
But all of those things, all of those loans are going to be paid back and they're going

1838
02:47:21,800 --> 02:47:27,140
to be paid back through water rates and the costs that your local citizenry and business

1839
02:47:27,140 --> 02:47:29,400
are going to pay in that area.

1840
02:47:30,140 --> 02:47:36,700
The reason that we're neutral on the bill and the concern that we have is that it's not

1841
02:47:36,700 --> 02:47:47,580
Not immediately clear that this particular chapter does or doesn't affect these water projects or projects that are financed through the water development board.

1842
02:47:47,980 --> 02:47:52,080
My personal belief is the statute probably doesn't apply.

1843
02:47:52,760 --> 02:48:00,060
But if you look at the relating clause on the bill, it talks about state-aided projects in there.

1844
02:48:00,060 --> 02:48:07,440
And the underlined language in the bill is starting to use the word governmental entity where that's not used in the statute now.

1845
02:48:07,920 --> 02:48:12,260
And if you look at the fiscal note, there's a reference to potential costs for local governments.

1846
02:48:12,880 --> 02:48:24,920
So all of that's raising a concern as to whether this particular chapter only affects state projects where you're actually doing the spending rather than projects that might be funded through the programs of the Water Development Board.

1847
02:48:24,920 --> 02:48:41,380
So we would request your consideration as the process goes on that that be clarified in this statute and this particular provision does not apply to the programs that are being financed through the water development board and that are really the projects of the government.

1848
02:48:42,600 --> 02:48:45,000
I know we're well and we spoke about this earlier today.

1849
02:48:45,100 --> 02:48:49,200
I think we could. I told her we had no intention of hurting her bill.

1850
02:48:49,200 --> 02:48:55,300
Okay, okay, members any questions we know better. Okay, thank you all

1851
02:48:57,220 --> 02:48:58,160
Derwin Royal

1852
02:49:01,950 --> 02:49:04,410
United Steel workers and self here to

1853
02:49:05,190 --> 02:49:11,330
Speak far the bill. Yes, sir. Thank you, Mr. Chairman and members of the committee. My name is Derwin Royal

1854
02:49:11,330 --> 02:49:18,230
I'm speak for United Steel workers and myself. I work at Longstarsdale. It's a plant in North East Texas

1855
02:49:19,150 --> 02:49:22,670
back in the heyday in the 80s and my father worked there was about 8,000 people

1856
02:49:22,670 --> 02:49:26,370
were meaning we weren't working that plant and I'm also the president of the local

1857
02:49:26,370 --> 02:49:32,190
there and back in February I've Newton the USDA of auditors I should say in 2007

1858
02:49:32,650 --> 02:49:39,010
and it was about 2,000 of us that year and in 2009 we had another little layoff and

1859
02:49:39,010 --> 02:49:43,350
come back up as 956 of us and I just got through negotiating with the company

1860
02:49:43,350 --> 02:49:48,870
at the end of this year we'll have 300 members left at the plant and the

1861
02:49:49,270 --> 02:49:53,530
foreign steel as well as killing us you know that's why I'm right here back in

1862
02:49:53,530 --> 02:49:58,290
this bill my little my plant's like the heart and soul was about eight little

1863
02:49:58,290 --> 02:49:59,730
towns in the area linden

1864
02:50:00,000 --> 02:50:29,540
New Springs, Naples, Omaha, Dangerfield, Avenger, all those towns, about 1500 people, but most of those people working that plan. And if you pull that plan out, just like pulling the heart out of the body, just kills that whole area. I can't see anything wrong with anybody want by America. You know, I was going to hurt us and do over help us. You know, I was in McDonald's the other morning pulling. We've got a layoff. We're starting to call back to people now. I got about 156 people back to the plant now. And the late McDonald's asked me, you guys,

1865
02:50:29,540 --> 02:50:30,620
That's going to start back up.

1866
02:50:30,720 --> 02:50:32,180
I said, yeah, we're going to ready to crank back up a little bit.

1867
02:50:32,620 --> 02:50:34,380
She said, good, it's going to not business is dying.

1868
02:50:34,800 --> 02:50:36,120
I need you guys back to work.

1869
02:50:38,000 --> 02:50:40,860
So that's about all I got to say and questions for me.

1870
02:50:41,660 --> 02:50:41,840
Anything?

1871
02:50:43,420 --> 02:50:44,140
Oh, yes.

1872
02:50:44,400 --> 02:50:44,740
Go ahead.

1873
02:50:44,740 --> 02:50:45,720
Thank you for being here today.

1874
02:50:46,040 --> 02:50:46,580
Where do you live?

1875
02:50:47,020 --> 02:50:47,880
I live in Houston Springs.

1876
02:50:47,900 --> 02:50:48,800
Houston Springs, all right.

1877
02:50:49,040 --> 02:50:50,140
One of my constituents said.

1878
02:50:50,140 --> 02:50:50,540
Yes, sir.

1879
02:50:50,800 --> 02:50:51,700
Thanks for being here today.

1880
02:50:52,080 --> 02:50:52,460
Yes, sir.

1881
02:50:52,780 --> 02:50:57,180
My wife's grandfather worked there for many, many, many years.

1882
02:50:57,180 --> 02:51:02,880
he died about going to the, you know, and blow every, you know,

1883
02:51:02,960 --> 02:51:06,540
dynamite out to the deal. He did that. So anyway, I'm very

1884
02:51:06,540 --> 02:51:09,800
familiar with that plan. It used to it back when they said,

1885
02:51:09,860 --> 02:51:12,620
I can't even eight down here. It's on or plan. Did everything

1886
02:51:12,620 --> 02:51:14,400
made on still did all that.

1887
02:51:14,460 --> 02:51:17,560
The whole bit. You sure? Thanks for being here. Have a safe

1888
02:51:17,560 --> 02:51:18,760
drive home. Yes, sir.

1889
02:51:19,340 --> 02:51:22,260
35. And he'll be a lot better off. So I'll appreciate your

1890
02:51:22,260 --> 02:51:25,740
time. Rick Levy, Texas AFL CIO.

1891
02:51:27,340 --> 02:51:28,380
Is Rick here?

1892
02:51:30,550 --> 02:51:34,110
We'll show Rick for the bill not testifying

1893
02:51:34,890 --> 02:51:35,770
Travis Josie

1894
02:51:41,280 --> 02:51:42,280
USW and self

1895
02:51:42,780 --> 02:51:47,720
For the bill. That is correct. I am for the bill. I USW and for myself

1896
02:51:48,580 --> 02:51:53,920
I'm located in Deer Park, but I need you to tell me your name. Oh, Travis Josie. You got it. Thank you

1897
02:51:53,920 --> 02:51:58,760
I actually was out at suburb of Houston, Deer Park. I work for Hexion

1898
02:51:58,760 --> 02:52:05,360
where I previously worked was a Sun Edison MDMC. They actually last year laid off

1899
02:52:05,360 --> 02:52:12,720
180 people due to the fact of actually being ordered to get the 52% tariffs

1900
02:52:12,720 --> 02:52:19,780
overseas was a cut. Actually more home where I'm at now my sister company just laid

1901
02:52:19,780 --> 02:52:26,500
off 100 people. CEO come out with a letter basically stating it was due to the fact

1902
02:52:26,500 --> 02:52:28,980
I like to think you get ECH oversees it a lot cheaper.

1903
02:52:29,800 --> 02:52:36,040
What we make is actually resins so in this bill for government things and entities along

1904
02:52:36,040 --> 02:52:42,460
those lines is this goes into the coding of piping paints, everything along those lines

1905
02:52:42,460 --> 02:52:43,040
that we make.

1906
02:52:43,820 --> 02:52:48,560
So for me and my family, keeping jobs and buying America is something that's very important

1907
02:52:48,560 --> 02:52:48,860
to me.

1908
02:52:50,120 --> 02:52:51,040
Do you have any questions?

1909
02:52:54,840 --> 02:52:55,680
Members, any questions?

1910
02:52:56,960 --> 02:52:59,280
Thank you very much for being here and for your testimony.

1911
02:52:59,700 --> 02:53:00,220
David Beard.

1912
02:53:00,460 --> 02:53:01,060
Thank you.

1913
02:53:01,060 --> 02:53:01,580
Thank you.

1914
02:53:01,900 --> 02:53:08,730
CLC President Texas, AFLCIO here to testify for the bill.

1915
02:53:12,370 --> 02:53:13,910
Thank you, Mr. Chairman and committee.

1916
02:53:15,390 --> 02:53:17,190
I'm from up there in North East Texas myself.

1917
02:53:17,190 --> 02:53:18,570
I'm in Redwater, Texas.

1918
02:53:19,110 --> 02:53:22,050
That's up near Texas, Canada, for some that may not know me.

1919
02:53:22,430 --> 02:53:23,990
I got to have your name for the record.

1920
02:53:23,990 --> 02:53:24,870
Oh, David Beard.

1921
02:53:25,010 --> 02:53:25,250
Okay.

1922
02:53:26,410 --> 02:53:34,930
Vice President of the Texas AFL-CO District I and President of the Central Labor Council in Texas, Canada.

1923
02:53:35,430 --> 02:53:39,310
Well, we've got your Texas AFL-CIO District I,

1924
02:53:39,870 --> 02:53:42,930
Vice President and South here, testifying for the bill.

1925
02:53:43,250 --> 02:53:45,310
For the bill, as well as for myself.

1926
02:53:46,070 --> 02:53:50,550
I work at a plant on the Arkansas side, it's Cooper Tyrum rubber company.

1927
02:53:50,550 --> 02:54:00,750
The hires will over 700 Texans, so we've been fighting for years now trying to just keep

1928
02:54:00,750 --> 02:54:01,730
that plan open.

1929
02:54:03,190 --> 02:54:09,430
Back in old seven, we renegotiated a contract, and now we've got two tear wages, where

1930
02:54:09,430 --> 02:54:14,750
if a guy gets hard off the street, he gets 70% starting out of what I'd be making.

1931
02:54:16,670 --> 02:54:28,670
We've had to renegotiate a lot of the benefits in order to get this plant going because of trade from China, trade from India, and this is ongoing fight.

1932
02:54:29,230 --> 02:54:34,870
In Tyler Texas, there used to be a plan, it's a good year plan, it employed about a thousand

1933
02:54:34,870 --> 02:54:40,870
seventy four employees that planned shut down with this morning, I took the time to contact

1934
02:54:40,870 --> 02:54:43,190
Jennifer Pittman to the city manager's office.

1935
02:54:43,570 --> 02:54:50,390
Just curious about the economic impact of this plan there in Tyler Texas, and remember this

1936
02:54:50,390 --> 02:54:57,210
is just Tyler Texas, we're not talking about all the other little towns in the area, a thousand

1937
02:54:57,210 --> 02:54:59,530
75 employees at Good Year Plant.

1938
02:55:00,940 --> 02:55:11,920
The payroll per year is $70.1 million, $70.1 million, with medical and other benefits to the

1939
02:55:11,920 --> 02:55:19,620
employees of this plant, it's $16.8 million. The local purchases of materials, like say,

1940
02:55:19,860 --> 02:55:25,540
if you got, if we have a machinery in the plant and we just don't, we have to have it

1941
02:55:25,540 --> 02:55:30,740
specially made. And we may have to get a machine shop in the area or somebody like that to

1942
02:55:30,740 --> 02:55:37,720
fix it or or have a plumbing come out fix our plumbing electrical whatever the case may be

1943
02:55:37,720 --> 02:55:49,010
the this company paid on a year on an average is $800,000 and water and electric alone is 14.9

1944
02:55:49,010 --> 02:55:57,350
million dollars a year now remember this plant's closed this plant's closed in economic activities

1945
02:55:57,350 --> 02:56:07,750
supporting the economy there. $948 million. $948 million. Remember, this is just

1946
02:56:07,750 --> 02:56:12,630
Tyler Texas. We're not talking about any other towns around the area. This

1947
02:56:12,630 --> 02:56:20,530
plant supported 202,498 jobs with a payroll of $161 million. Now when this plant

1948
02:56:20,530 --> 02:56:25,350
shut down that's two hundred two thousand four hundred and ninety eight jobs

1949
02:56:25,350 --> 02:56:31,290
gone. Tyler Texas alone. We're not talking about any other area. Now you put in

1950
02:56:31,290 --> 02:56:35,190
long view and all the other areas that people actually drove to Tyler Texas go to

1951
02:56:35,190 --> 02:56:40,510
work. There's a lot more at stake here but the one thing I want you to to

1952
02:56:40,510 --> 02:56:45,690
concentrate on is nine hundred forty eight million dollars in support of the

1953
02:56:45,690 --> 02:56:54,310
economy, $948 million that takes me back to my plan. If Cooper tire every shot down in

1954
02:56:54,310 --> 02:57:02,650
Texas or Canada, we've got 1,500 early employees and that's not talking about the other 425

1955
02:57:02,650 --> 02:57:08,270
support staff, supervisors, office workers, and what have you. You're not counting them

1956
02:57:08,270 --> 02:57:15,610
either. It's a much bigger plan and now if it's $948 million in Tyler, Texas, imagine the

1957
02:57:15,610 --> 02:57:23,630
the impact it's going to have in Texas, Redwater Texas, Atlanta Texas, all the surrounding

1958
02:57:23,630 --> 02:57:24,030
areas.

1959
02:57:25,110 --> 02:57:30,190
When you buy American, when you purchase American with American tax dollars, understand

1960
02:57:30,190 --> 02:57:33,650
that's what this bill is about, American tax dollars.

1961
02:57:34,570 --> 02:57:41,130
When you support a plant like lead medallys, when you bind that steel, when you bind that pipe,

1962
02:57:41,570 --> 02:57:45,110
when it goes into water, when it's put in our oil, let me tell you what it's doing.

1963
02:57:45,110 --> 02:57:49,170
It's keeping these plants open, it's keeping the tax dollars flowing.

1964
02:57:49,850 --> 02:57:56,390
When we shut down a plan, good year plan, what you're doing is you're taking tax dollars

1965
02:57:56,390 --> 02:57:59,770
out of this economy, you're taking tax dollars.

1966
02:58:00,170 --> 02:58:07,230
You can't find enough jobs in small business to replace a thousand seventy four jobs that

1967
02:58:07,230 --> 02:58:10,190
pay that kind of money, that gives that kind of benefits.

1968
02:58:11,010 --> 02:58:14,730
We have to be thinking about what's best for Texas.

1969
02:58:15,510 --> 02:58:16,910
Now we have a president ran.

1970
02:58:17,050 --> 02:58:18,450
Let's make America great again.

1971
02:58:18,790 --> 02:58:19,690
Bring jobs back.

1972
02:58:20,530 --> 02:58:21,470
Well, look, guess what?

1973
02:58:21,850 --> 02:58:23,950
Texas has a chance to leave that charge.

1974
02:58:24,070 --> 02:58:25,310
And by gosh, let's do it.

1975
02:58:25,830 --> 02:58:27,350
Thank you very much for your test.

1976
02:58:27,410 --> 02:58:27,810
Thank you.

1977
02:58:27,830 --> 02:58:29,330
Is there any more questions?

1978
02:58:29,610 --> 02:58:30,050
Any questions?

1979
02:58:30,370 --> 02:58:30,830
No questions.

1980
02:58:32,010 --> 02:58:32,330
All right.

1981
02:58:32,550 --> 02:58:33,270
Perry Fowler.

1982
02:58:33,770 --> 02:58:34,990
Texas Water Infrastructure.

1983
02:58:35,090 --> 02:58:38,390
It's networking staff here to speak against the bill.

1984
02:58:38,390 --> 02:58:39,430
Thank

1985
02:58:42,600 --> 02:58:46,040
you Mr. Chairman, committee members and appreciate your time here today.

1986
02:58:46,980 --> 02:58:58,740
I'm Perry Feller on the executive director of the Texas Water Infrastructure Network who represent contractors, subcontractors, suppliers, manufacturers, law firms, none of those that are involved in water construction projects here in the state of Texas.

1987
02:58:59,800 --> 02:59:10,360
I'll try to be brief here, industry and public owners experience with these types of requirements have been that there are costly cumbersome and failed to acknowledge supply chains and manufacturing processes.

1988
02:59:10,360 --> 02:59:15,120
We have particular issues with the application of these requirements and content tests as

1989
02:59:15,120 --> 02:59:20,240
they apply to manufactured goods such as complex mechanical and electrical systems such

1990
02:59:20,240 --> 02:59:22,800
as those incorporated into water and wastewater treatment plants.

1991
02:59:23,740 --> 02:59:28,480
For example, current state laws as it applies to the Texas Water Development Board funded projects

1992
02:59:28,480 --> 02:59:33,820
lacks the clarity and flexibility that we presently have under stated ministered federal assistance,

1993
02:59:34,320 --> 02:59:36,240
which would be the EPS or F program.

1994
02:59:36,980 --> 02:59:41,600
Federal long guidelines are very specific and you've evolved to provide flexibility and

1995
02:59:41,600 --> 02:59:45,500
address any concerns that have been raised since the advent of the Recovery Act or stimulus

1996
02:59:45,500 --> 02:59:49,520
legislation that was passed by Congress under the former administration.

1997
02:59:50,630 --> 02:59:54,180
As these policies have persisted, we have seen improvements with regard to these federal

1998
02:59:54,180 --> 02:59:59,920
programs which don't necessarily impact cost factors, but waivers have been available

1999
03:00:00,000 --> 03:00:29,920
Local and certain exclusions and applicability has changed to improve processes and promote compliance. Again, over the years, rules for federal programs have become more clear and discretionary waiver authority, and more specific applications, certain goods has evolved to recognize concerns of industry, including domestic manufacturers who typically oppose these types of policies, with standing the iron steel and pipe industry. When you artificially impact the construction design and procurement process, there are associated costs, unintended consequences,

2000
03:00:29,920 --> 03:00:32,620
and liability and supply chain issues that can be negative.

2001
03:00:33,380 --> 03:00:36,580
And I want to be very clear that we understand many of the issues that are driving these types

2002
03:00:36,580 --> 03:00:37,160
of policies.

2003
03:00:37,760 --> 03:00:41,180
We don't begrudge the RN steel or pipe industry for supporting such measures.

2004
03:00:42,120 --> 03:00:45,180
And the reasons for promoting such policies, we understand that.

2005
03:00:45,300 --> 03:00:49,560
But we have had negative experience with some of these policies specifically as they apply

2006
03:00:49,560 --> 03:00:50,640
to manufactured goods.

2007
03:00:51,580 --> 03:00:55,860
We think that there is a financial benefit when all levels of the playing field are level

2008
03:00:55,860 --> 03:00:57,420
and when competition is promoted,

2009
03:00:58,120 --> 03:01:00,200
and we would not have strong objections to these requirements.

2010
03:01:00,780 --> 03:01:02,680
If they were specifically limited to things

2011
03:01:02,680 --> 03:01:04,440
such as pipe structural steel,

2012
03:01:04,700 --> 03:01:07,000
and particularly if it was limited to carbon steel,

2013
03:01:07,000 --> 03:01:09,660
we have very significant issues with specialty metal sometimes.

2014
03:01:10,560 --> 03:01:12,020
We want to see healthy domestic industries,

2015
03:01:12,400 --> 03:01:15,020
and right now the activity level in our industries is very high.

2016
03:01:15,700 --> 03:01:17,820
And my member contractors, suppliers, manufacturers,

2017
03:01:17,820 --> 03:01:20,320
and others want to be able to compete in a fair and reasonable

2018
03:01:20,320 --> 03:01:21,320
and efficient environment.

2019
03:01:22,280 --> 03:01:23,720
And if it's the will of the legislature

2020
03:01:23,720 --> 03:01:29,080
And there's consensus by this committee in the body that, if there are potential costs associated with these policies,

2021
03:01:29,540 --> 03:01:34,620
they're not significant, or the state approves of paying for that, then that's fine.

2022
03:01:34,800 --> 03:01:44,180
But again, as these policies specifically relate to manufactured goods, specifically instrumentation systems and equipment that goes into water treatment plants, that's where we have an issue.

2023
03:01:44,480 --> 03:01:46,100
Mr. Fowler, why don't you do this?

2024
03:01:46,140 --> 03:01:49,140
Why don't you get with Representative Davis about this?

2025
03:01:49,140 --> 03:01:55,620
Because I think she even referenced that there's some specially items that she knows she'd had to carve out.

2026
03:01:55,760 --> 03:02:04,860
So I'd really encourage you, as I encourage Mr. Breslin, to sit down and let's go through the issues and see if we can't find some common grounds.

2027
03:02:05,080 --> 03:02:06,180
Yes, sir. And I'd like to do that.

2028
03:02:06,240 --> 03:02:16,860
And I think that part of the issue that we've had specifically with regard to the water board and the different federal and state requirements has been that there's a lack of process with regard to how the stated ministers things.

2029
03:02:16,860 --> 03:02:23,200
there's a lack of specificity and flexibility there also and again over time to the EPA program

2030
03:02:23,200 --> 03:02:28,520
the stated ministers become very clear what applies and what doesn't and there's a process

2031
03:02:28,520 --> 03:02:32,800
to do that and we're happy to work with with with the representative or anyone for that

2032
03:02:32,800 --> 03:02:37,420
matter. You know we've been dealing with these issues now for for some time and I feel like

2033
03:02:37,420 --> 03:02:40,940
we have a legitimate reason to be concerned about them and we want to be able to work the

2034
03:02:40,940 --> 03:02:42,380
legislature to do something reasonable.

2035
03:02:42,380 --> 03:02:47,180
Bring a valid but very valid points it need to be thrown out so thank you

2036
03:02:47,180 --> 03:02:51,840
And and just just as a reminder for the record make sure I got you

2037
03:02:51,840 --> 03:02:58,960
That you so if you just go through state your name and who you're representing your position where I haven't missed

2038
03:02:58,960 --> 03:03:05,020
Yes, sir Perry Fowler executive director of the Texas Water Infrastructure Network and presently we are opposed to this legislation

2039
03:03:05,020 --> 03:03:08,880
And you also represent yourself and I also represent myself as a construction industry expert

2040
03:03:08,880 --> 03:03:11,360
I've dealt with this policy on the national level also

2041
03:03:11,360 --> 03:03:17,080
Okay, I've got you down now. Thank you very much and I appreciate your time and we're not trying to set anybody here

2042
03:03:17,080 --> 03:03:22,280
But we feel like we should know what because there's always you know unintended consequences. Yes, sir

2043
03:03:22,280 --> 03:03:27,800
We need to think this through and we need to move we need to make sure people have water so absolutely

2044
03:03:27,800 --> 03:03:31,760
It's very important if you'll get with representative Davis. I appreciate it. Thank you, sir

2045
03:03:31,760 --> 03:03:37,620
We look forward to working with everyone in the committee. Thank you. Thornton Maddley United still workers

2046
03:03:37,620 --> 03:03:38,420
Okay,

2047
03:03:46,770 --> 03:03:54,350
thank you. Yes, sir. Go ahead. I'm leaving medley with you wait a second. You know, here's it. Here's the deal. We gotta do all this right

2048
03:03:54,350 --> 03:03:59,570
So you're you're signed in as Thornton. So Thornton Lee, Medley, Jr. My dad was Thornton

2049
03:03:59,570 --> 03:04:05,330
So okay, they asked for first name and that is my first name. Okay. So Thornton Lee, Medley, Jr.

2050
03:04:07,450 --> 03:04:11,370
Thornton, Medley. Yeah, there you go. There we go. We have to do everything. Hey, I understand

2051
03:04:11,370 --> 03:04:13,990
I'm going to rise everybody crazy, but this is what we've got to do here.

2052
03:04:14,170 --> 03:04:15,410
I'm going to follow the rules.

2053
03:04:15,770 --> 03:04:15,930
Okay.

2054
03:04:17,350 --> 03:04:20,090
And you're representing United Steel workers.

2055
03:04:20,630 --> 03:04:21,390
District Council.

2056
03:04:21,650 --> 03:04:21,930
Okay.

2057
03:04:22,110 --> 03:04:22,590
13.

2058
03:04:22,830 --> 03:04:23,110
Yes, sir.

2059
03:04:23,390 --> 03:04:25,490
And myself as a pipe fitter.

2060
03:04:25,650 --> 03:04:25,850
Yeah.

2061
03:04:26,010 --> 03:04:26,330
Okay.

2062
03:04:26,670 --> 03:04:27,390
And you're for the bill.

2063
03:04:27,730 --> 03:04:28,170
Yes, sir.

2064
03:04:28,290 --> 03:04:29,110
I am for the bill.

2065
03:04:29,490 --> 03:04:31,490
I've been here with Miss Davis before.

2066
03:04:32,370 --> 03:04:39,370
I have 37 years of working on the Gulf Coast and in the refineries.

2067
03:04:40,910 --> 03:04:46,730
and using ship channel. I have seen us close facilities and I have seen the

2068
03:04:46,730 --> 03:04:52,230
effects on the families. I'm gonna tell you I'm a pipe fitter and one of those

2069
03:04:52,230 --> 03:04:57,270
guys out there looking for jobs don't have is a lobbyist to come in here and

2070
03:04:57,270 --> 03:04:59,990
to make laws that allow for Chinese-

2071
03:05:18,420 --> 03:05:29,540
I don't believe that's what we want. I don't believe that's what we saw in the last election.

2072
03:05:30,520 --> 03:05:33,220
Now, there is cost.

2073
03:05:33,840 --> 03:05:38,420
If your fabricating is still in this country, there is cost because we're not China.

2074
03:05:38,700 --> 03:05:40,380
We don't manipulate our currency.

2075
03:05:41,380 --> 03:05:42,840
We don't use slave labor.

2076
03:05:43,020 --> 03:05:44,140
We do have standards.

2077
03:05:45,000 --> 03:05:52,740
But a good company, a good strong American company cannot compete when you have another

2078
03:05:52,740 --> 03:05:56,780
country subsidizing the tires they're making, flooding our market.

2079
03:05:56,780 --> 03:06:02,320
those are those are Texas people they're not corporations they're not companies

2080
03:06:02,320 --> 03:06:07,980
they're not contractors they're people looking for a job now I'm gonna tell you a

2081
03:06:07,980 --> 03:06:12,560
lot of people talk about work ethic I learned my work ethic by watching my dad get

2082
03:06:12,560 --> 03:06:17,200
up and go to work and my grandpa getting up to work probably just the same as

2083
03:06:17,200 --> 03:06:24,260
everybody in this room but when there are no jobs and a man or a woman speaking

2084
03:06:24,260 --> 03:06:31,540
from a man's point of view. It's not able to go out and see his children see him go to work.

2085
03:06:33,160 --> 03:06:41,360
What does that teach in those kids? Why do we give preference? Now my age I come from the

2086
03:06:41,360 --> 03:06:50,060
Cold War. I miss the memo that Vietnam and China had become our friends. I believe you see things

2087
03:06:50,060 --> 03:06:57,800
pretty well, win energy. When we started win energy, those fans were built here in the

2088
03:06:57,800 --> 03:07:03,280
United States. You go over the Houston Ship Channel, if you're traveling north and

2089
03:07:03,280 --> 03:07:09,840
look to the right, and see those fans being brought in on ships. Our number one export

2090
03:07:09,840 --> 03:07:17,900
is empty containers. We have jobs coming in. We have lost in my local, we've lost two

2091
03:07:17,900 --> 03:07:27,220
U.S. still places, completely. Everybody gone. We had passing a paper, sheldon paper,

2092
03:07:28,020 --> 03:07:37,160
love can paper. They are gone. We cannot compete with countries that do not compete on

2093
03:07:37,160 --> 03:07:41,840
a fair playing field. You know, the other thing I want to talk about is we're getting

2094
03:07:41,840 --> 03:07:48,680
graduate a bunch of children into the workforce. That vibe that we're talking about or that

2095
03:07:48,680 --> 03:07:53,920
component that we're talking about, they should be going to apprenticeship programs and

2096
03:07:53,920 --> 03:07:59,820
learning a trade, learning a skill. Let's put them to work. Instead of bringing in four

2097
03:07:59,820 --> 03:08:05,820
and made products, let's put our kids to work. You can't tell me that a young man would

2098
03:08:05,820 --> 03:08:11,520
rather spend his time getting in trouble if he had a good job. That's the American

2099
03:08:11,520 --> 03:08:15,040
can dream that we've forgotten is to get a good job.

2100
03:08:16,120 --> 03:08:19,760
Luckily you find my wife been 34 years.

2101
03:08:20,080 --> 03:08:20,800
Raise some children.

2102
03:08:21,820 --> 03:08:24,140
Go on vacation, but we're missing that

2103
03:08:24,800 --> 03:08:28,880
because we have chosen to use foreign made materials.

2104
03:08:30,600 --> 03:08:32,020
And they talk about components.

2105
03:08:32,220 --> 03:08:35,160
Well, components come from working people also.

2106
03:08:36,340 --> 03:08:38,880
I struggle as most folks do.

2107
03:08:38,880 --> 03:08:45,920
If you go into a cafe or represent a camp on your hometown, most of the people in there would say

2108
03:08:45,920 --> 03:08:49,800
we need to buy American products, not Chinese products. I'm pretty sure.

2109
03:08:51,280 --> 03:08:57,140
You know, they say there's extra cost, but that cost should be viewed as investment.

2110
03:08:57,700 --> 03:09:01,500
We're investing in our country, we're investing in young people, we're investing in jobs,

2111
03:09:02,080 --> 03:09:06,980
and we're putting people back to work. We talk about a lot of issues and problems up here

2112
03:09:06,980 --> 03:09:25,500
at this building. There's four letters, J-O-B-S, that would solve a ton of those problems because you have a good, you know, we have seen companies, good American companies pitted against foreign companies, and to be competitive.

2113
03:09:25,860 --> 03:09:31,640
Mr. Mayor, they can come to you. I'll wrap it up. To be competitive though, they come after benefits.

2114
03:09:31,640 --> 03:09:33,780
They don't want to come after our benefits.

2115
03:09:34,080 --> 03:09:37,780
There's nobody out there saying, I want to take this away from a work in Manor 1.

2116
03:09:38,220 --> 03:09:46,940
But if you're competing with a company, that's payroll is an eighth of what you're is because of their government.

2117
03:09:48,760 --> 03:09:49,800
You're not going to win.

2118
03:09:50,580 --> 03:09:56,660
We should be put our people first, and I don't think you'll for your time and your efforts.

2119
03:09:56,860 --> 03:09:57,500
You bet, thank you.

2120
03:09:57,500 --> 03:09:58,860
and your past support.

2121
03:09:59,160 --> 03:09:59,940
You bet. Thank you.

2122
03:10:00,000 --> 03:10:07,820
Thank you very much for your testimony. Thank you for being here. David Mitchell, USW-13 and

2123
03:10:07,820 --> 03:10:09,920
South here to speak for the bill.

2124
03:10:13,270 --> 03:10:16,190
Remember, sometimes, sometimes the most powerful testimony

2125
03:10:16,190 --> 03:10:17,730
that didn't take very long.

2126
03:10:20,290 --> 03:10:25,430
Thank you, Representative Cook and the committee for allowing me to come

2127
03:10:25,430 --> 03:10:31,190
before you and stand in support of House Bill 770. My name is David Mitchell Jr.

2128
03:10:33,180 --> 03:10:36,900
Mr. Mitchell, we're just going to have you as David Mitchell.

2129
03:10:37,160 --> 03:10:37,800
David Mitchell.

2130
03:10:37,840 --> 03:10:42,480
Because that's how you're on here, and I got to keep it all clean, and I have you

2131
03:10:42,480 --> 03:10:47,900
representing USW 13 and yourself for the bill.

2132
03:10:48,280 --> 03:10:48,380
Yes.

2133
03:10:48,720 --> 03:10:49,000
Okay.

2134
03:10:49,120 --> 03:10:50,160
Now we've got everything right.

2135
03:10:50,500 --> 03:10:50,720
All right.

2136
03:10:51,160 --> 03:10:55,340
I worked at that paper mill in Sheldon, Texas, that shut down.

2137
03:10:57,400 --> 03:11:05,300
The manufacturing from that mill was moved to Asia, to the Pan-Asian paper company in China.

2138
03:11:06,360 --> 03:11:11,360
There was approximately 1200 people working on the manufacturing floor there,

2139
03:11:12,540 --> 03:11:18,120
with an additional 800 people in management positions and support positions there.

2140
03:11:18,120 --> 03:11:26,260
Most of those people, when that facility was shut down, weren't able to find comparable

2141
03:11:26,260 --> 03:11:30,960
jobs that allowed them to continue the lifestyle that they had.

2142
03:11:33,910 --> 03:11:40,130
Because of that, the community suffered many local businesses shut down.

2143
03:11:40,130 --> 03:11:49,750
I personally believe that had we had more involvement, more places that were building facilities,

2144
03:11:50,070 --> 03:11:53,710
that were building American that those folks would have had additional places to go.

2145
03:11:53,970 --> 03:12:01,310
The whole purpose of this bill is to generate a working work for the American people and

2146
03:12:01,310 --> 03:12:02,590
the Texans that live here.

2147
03:12:04,570 --> 03:12:11,510
When we were told that we were shutting down, we received a warrant act, and we received

2148
03:12:12,530 --> 03:12:14,430
retraining from the federal government,

2149
03:12:19,800 --> 03:12:21,340
and the

2150
03:12:23,680 --> 03:12:26,440
funding for the training from the

2151
03:12:26,440 --> 03:12:29,140
federal government was extremely difficult to get.

2152
03:12:29,960 --> 03:12:35,680
It was approved for retraining, but it was never allocated any funds for it.

2153
03:12:35,680 --> 03:12:51,480
So we had a very long and difficult fight that probably lasted almost a year to get that refraining funds to get some of our folks re-skilled so that they could go into in a different form of employment.

2154
03:12:53,560 --> 03:13:01,700
You'll find that the USW-13-1 represents many manufacturing businesses, the people that work there.

2155
03:13:02,800 --> 03:13:15,200
We need to support workers in Texas and America by buying products manufactured here and when we buy American, we build American and we all prosper.

2156
03:13:16,480 --> 03:13:28,040
I'll close with that and I'll say, Representative Cook, thank you and the committee for allowing me to come before you to address you on behalf of this House Bill 770, thank you, sir.

2157
03:13:28,040 --> 03:13:30,920
We appreciate your testimony in being here today.

2158
03:13:31,040 --> 03:13:32,080
Thank you very much.

2159
03:13:33,500 --> 03:13:34,200
Thank you.

2160
03:13:35,000 --> 03:13:39,900
Is there anyone else that's registered to speak on for against House Bill 770?

2161
03:13:40,600 --> 03:13:43,220
Not what we'll call on resident Davis to close on the bill.

2162
03:13:45,640 --> 03:13:50,340
Thank you, Mr. Chairman and members for allowing us to bring this back to you.

2163
03:13:50,620 --> 03:13:56,960
I will commit to work with those who have concerns to make sure that we've provided the proper

2164
03:13:57,500 --> 03:14:00,520
We're not trying to create an additional cost.

2165
03:14:01,000 --> 03:14:07,660
We want to just hold jobs in Texas, and you can't have jobs if you don't have the manufacturing to offer the jobs.

2166
03:14:07,900 --> 03:14:15,440
So it's kind of a balance in act for us to make sure that we do everything we can to keep our economy strong.

2167
03:14:15,880 --> 03:14:16,980
And I will leave you with this.

2168
03:14:17,160 --> 03:14:23,740
Remembering to that, and from 2000 to 2016, we lost 225,000 jobs.

2169
03:14:24,360 --> 03:14:26,660
Those are manufacturing jobs in other communities.

2170
03:14:26,660 --> 03:14:27,540
These are other countries.

2171
03:14:28,220 --> 03:14:32,040
And we just can't afford to be quiet on this issue.

2172
03:14:32,200 --> 03:14:33,860
So thank you again for allowing us to do that.

2173
03:14:33,960 --> 03:14:36,900
Now we'll commit to work with those entities that are

2174
03:14:36,900 --> 03:14:37,680
trying to protect.

2175
03:14:38,080 --> 03:14:38,340
Thank you.

2176
03:14:38,440 --> 03:14:38,720
And I close.

2177
03:14:38,960 --> 03:14:39,720
There's any questions?

2178
03:14:40,340 --> 03:14:43,780
Our chair is intent to leave House Bill 770 pending.

2179
03:14:44,900 --> 03:14:48,340
Chair lays out House Bill 3859 and calls on

2180
03:14:48,340 --> 03:14:50,280
Representative Frank to explain his bill.

2181
03:14:58,460 --> 03:14:58,820
Go ahead.

2182
03:14:59,060 --> 03:14:59,700
Thank you, Chairman Cook.

2183
03:15:00,000 --> 03:15:05,640
And committee members, thank you for allowing me to lay out the committee substitute for House Bill 3859.

2184
03:15:06,420 --> 03:15:15,800
Just a second. I just a minute here. Do I have a committee substitute? I think what you've got to lay out here.

2185
03:15:16,100 --> 03:15:19,160
I think it's strictly to be over. I don't have to substitute.

2186
03:15:19,860 --> 03:15:24,200
You can talk about it. Yeah, it's allowed to be over. Then you can talk about what would be in it.

2187
03:15:24,200 --> 03:15:26,740
Okay, very good within I correct myself.

2188
03:15:26,920 --> 03:15:34,060
I will lay out House Bill 3859 while I will not insult the committee by telling you it's a simple bill.

2189
03:15:34,260 --> 03:15:38,920
I can assure you it is significantly less complicated and does less things than someone have you believe.

2190
03:15:39,660 --> 03:15:44,580
I actually wanted to make sure that the legislative intent of the bill was crystal clear.

2191
03:15:44,740 --> 03:15:52,640
And so I included it at the beginning and I won't read all the bill to you but I would like to read the legislative intent because I believe what the bill does is exactly what the intent says.

2192
03:15:53,300 --> 03:16:16,620
says it is the intent of the legislature to maintain a diverse network of service providers that offer a range of foster capacity options and that can accommodate children from various backgrounds, various cultural backgrounds, to that end, the legislature expects reasonable accommodations to be made by the state to allow people who diverse backgrounds in beliefs to be a part of meeting the needs of children in the child welfare system.

2193
03:16:16,620 --> 03:16:28,540
And then it ends by saying decisions regarding the placement of children shall continue to be made in the best interest of the child, including which person is best able to provide for the child's physical, physiological and emotional needs and developments.

2194
03:16:29,120 --> 03:16:40,900
So to be clear the intent and I believe the result of passing this bill will be to allow current foster care homes in Texas to remain open and to grow the number of high quality foster homes for the at risk children of the state.

2195
03:16:40,900 --> 03:16:48,000
The specific purpose of this bill is to protect a group that is tremendously important to taking care of the most vulnerable children in this state.

2196
03:16:48,560 --> 03:16:54,600
Currently, many in the faith-based communities are being targeted with litigation and discrimination because of their beliefs.

2197
03:16:55,120 --> 03:17:00,600
A group that is currently providing approximately 25% of child welfare services in the state.

2198
03:17:01,180 --> 03:17:02,940
And that's what this bill seeks to protect.

2199
03:17:03,160 --> 03:17:07,740
It is critical that we retain and grow this group of providers as well as everyone else.

2200
03:17:07,740 --> 03:17:13,260
And this is important, as well as everyone else who is willing to step into the foster care arena and help.

2201
03:17:14,320 --> 03:17:15,960
The reason I filed this bill is simple.

2202
03:17:16,080 --> 03:17:19,880
I've spent time, many of y'all know, since I've been in the legislature working with CPS, and

2203
03:17:19,880 --> 03:17:26,280
I've filed bills and more importantly, it's spent a lot of time getting to know the inner workings of CPS in an effort to improve it.

2204
03:17:26,760 --> 03:17:32,320
I, along with Representative Rodriguez and others, were on the speaker's work group addressing CPS and foster care.

2205
03:17:33,140 --> 03:17:36,860
But when addressing the foster care shortage, there were a number of issues that were important to address.

2206
03:17:36,860 --> 03:17:38,860
And we are addressing some of those with other issues.

2207
03:17:39,420 --> 03:17:45,580
Unfortunately, this is also a bill that needs to be done in order to protect and even grow our foster care capacities.

2208
03:17:46,360 --> 03:17:49,640
Members, I truly wish this bill weren't necessary, however.

2209
03:17:50,680 --> 03:17:54,980
Increasingly, there are organizations wholly unconnected, and this is an important point.

2210
03:17:55,080 --> 03:18:04,920
Holy, unconnected to the child welfare services that are suing quality foster care service providers out of business for nothing more than the Audacity to act on the beliefs that are different than the popular culture.

2211
03:18:04,920 --> 03:18:10,720
In Texas, organizations have suspended services because of legal suits and litigation threats

2212
03:18:11,260 --> 03:18:14,680
and others are considering shutting their doors and you will hear from some of them.

2213
03:18:15,160 --> 03:18:18,960
It is critical to understand that the lawsuits that we are trying to protect again have absolutely

2214
03:18:18,960 --> 03:18:24,660
nothing to do with the quality of the care that these foster care homes are providing, nothing

2215
03:18:24,660 --> 03:18:29,420
to do with their training, verification services, or their willingness to take child placements

2216
03:18:29,420 --> 03:18:30,160
of any kind.

2217
03:18:30,160 --> 03:18:34,960
And I'd like to just repeat, we are protecting foster care providers who are being targeted

2218
03:18:34,960 --> 03:18:39,700
for lawsuits by organizations that are not a part of the fix.

2219
03:18:41,340 --> 03:18:46,340
Members, I believe we must do all that we can to allow everyone to provide diverse, high

2220
03:18:46,340 --> 03:18:49,020
quality foster homes in every community in the state of Texas.

2221
03:18:49,380 --> 03:18:50,420
So what does this bill do?

2222
03:18:51,240 --> 03:18:57,860
Specifically, it allows foster care providers to decline to provide certain services.

2223
03:18:57,860 --> 03:19:06,360
It does not allow the provider to do anything they want but it, rather it allows them to say no in very specific limited circumstances.

2224
03:19:06,920 --> 03:19:13,860
The bill is written simply protects against the lawsuits that are being filed for things that religious organizations are getting sued for not providing.

2225
03:19:14,400 --> 03:19:15,960
I'll be happy to talk more about those.

2226
03:19:17,500 --> 03:19:23,200
Let me tell you a couple of things that the bill does not do because that seems to be in some ways as important as what it does.

2227
03:19:23,840 --> 03:19:26,720
Let me first, I don't believe the bill does any discrimination.

2228
03:19:26,960 --> 03:19:29,400
This is not about restricting the rights of Texans.

2229
03:19:29,500 --> 03:19:35,500
It is intended to continue the long-held protection of rights for everyone, even when those rights appear to be in conflict.

2230
03:19:36,580 --> 03:19:42,400
It is not a license to discriminate, it is actually, I believe, a license to participate in the foster care system.

2231
03:19:42,620 --> 03:19:46,920
Everyone is allowed to participate who can bring safe, loving foster care homes to the table.

2232
03:19:47,440 --> 03:19:50,900
But you will not be discriminated against because you're acting on your belief.

2233
03:19:52,060 --> 03:19:56,900
Some will say this bill will prevent same-sex couples from adopting or fostering that is absolutely not the case.

2234
03:19:57,540 --> 03:19:59,940
In fact, I would like to personally think...

2235
03:20:00,000 --> 03:20:28,380
Some of the people that I'm sure will be here, I'd like to personally thank many of the same sex foster care parents and members of the LGBT community for some of the amazing work that they have done and will continue to do in the area of foster care and child welfare. Their positive contributions to the life of at-risk childrens of this state are appreciated and do not go unnoticed. I know that many of the people that will testify today feel they're being targeted by this bill today, and while I don't expect them to believe me, that is not the purpose of this bill.

2236
03:20:29,300 --> 03:20:34,280
In fact, there is protections in this bill while it is overlooked in many of the articles that have been written.

2237
03:20:36,200 --> 03:20:40,720
This bill actually requires the FPS to make sure that services are available to all.

2238
03:20:41,320 --> 03:20:45,300
It actually wants sure that all types of service providers can live side-by-side and

2239
03:20:45,300 --> 03:20:47,080
continue to offer services to everyone.

2240
03:20:47,980 --> 03:20:50,520
The purpose is not to exclude or deny services.

2241
03:20:50,840 --> 03:20:56,740
It is to help as many people as possible to participate in the services in a way that respects all points of view.

2242
03:20:56,740 --> 03:21:04,160
This bill does not restrict the ability of LGBT couples to adopt, as it does not impose religious conscious but allows it.

2243
03:21:04,560 --> 03:21:14,100
It simply protects the ability of those for whom those services may conflict with sincerely held religious beliefs to decline to do so safely.

2244
03:21:14,980 --> 03:21:19,400
One more thing it does not do, it does not affect placements in any way, shape, or form.

2245
03:21:19,400 --> 03:21:25,960
Placements are made by CPS or by what's called single source continuum providers, SSCCs.

2246
03:21:26,280 --> 03:21:34,720
It is clear from the wording of the bills, these organizations are not given any type of religious protection, so they will continue to work with everybody.

2247
03:21:35,460 --> 03:21:47,960
In fact, if you think about it, what this bill also means is that religious providers who want protection will not be able to be single source continuum providers in our system or will not have that protection.

2248
03:21:49,600 --> 03:21:50,940
I'm getting close to the end.

2249
03:21:51,720 --> 03:21:58,420
CPS and SSCCs are obligated to find placements that best fit the child, which I believe further

2250
03:21:58,420 --> 03:22:02,700
illustrates why we need to make sure to expand a diverse network or foster care options.

2251
03:22:03,320 --> 03:22:05,680
We need all types of providers.

2252
03:22:05,880 --> 03:22:06,480
We need religious.

2253
03:22:06,660 --> 03:22:07,240
We need secular.

2254
03:22:07,440 --> 03:22:11,780
We need LGBT, et cetera, to provide enough good fits for all types of children from diverse

2255
03:22:11,780 --> 03:22:16,620
background, regardless of whether it's Muslim, Christian, LGBT, et cetera, to serve the

2256
03:22:16,620 --> 03:22:17,740
best interest of the child.

2257
03:22:18,940 --> 03:22:25,580
Last but not least in the bill, we've made very clear that the best interest of the child is almost always foremost.

2258
03:22:26,160 --> 03:22:30,100
It is in the bill, that is, you said I could talk about the committee substitute.

2259
03:22:30,340 --> 03:22:33,940
That's really the main thing that has been added in the committee substitute is an abundance of caution.

2260
03:22:34,100 --> 03:22:40,140
We have put the best interest of the child and made sure that's paramount, while nothing in the bill before denied that.

2261
03:22:40,260 --> 03:22:42,060
We've made sure that that is first and foremost.

2262
03:22:42,060 --> 03:22:48,240
First, the committee sub-ads that language, basically if people are more concerned about

2263
03:22:48,240 --> 03:22:53,200
children than a political agenda, then we would not need to be stopping the targeted

2264
03:22:53,200 --> 03:22:56,200
anti-religious lawsuits that are hurting our foster care providers.

2265
03:22:56,760 --> 03:23:00,740
Again, the lawsuits are being brought by people not involved in the system against people

2266
03:23:00,740 --> 03:23:02,920
who are providing homes for kids.

2267
03:23:03,980 --> 03:23:09,720
Members, the committee, I'm sorry, HB3859 is a license for faith-based adoption in foster

2268
03:23:09,720 --> 03:23:12,680
of care providers that have served disadvantaged children in Texas for decades.

2269
03:23:13,540 --> 03:23:16,840
And it asks them to continue to participate in the child welfare system.

2270
03:23:17,460 --> 03:23:19,840
And with that, Chairman, I'd like to reserve the right to close.

2271
03:23:21,700 --> 03:23:22,820
Members, any questions?

2272
03:23:24,520 --> 03:23:26,020
Yes, we've got a number of questions.

2273
03:23:26,240 --> 03:23:31,440
And I just want to appreciate you taking this issue on.

2274
03:23:31,500 --> 03:23:35,780
I doubt very seriously if a couple of years ago you'd ever find yourself.

2275
03:23:37,840 --> 03:23:49,020
I did not start thinking that this is something I needed to be involved in but have gotten involved in the foster care system and I think unfortunately this is something that needs to be done to make sure we have enough homes out there.

2276
03:23:49,120 --> 03:24:05,560
And you know as well as I do, we are really challenged to have enough good homes for these kids and it's a tragedy that kids find themselves in a situation but I commend you for your efforts in trying to address this where we can give kids a chance.

2277
03:24:05,560 --> 03:24:12,240
to have normal, decent lives that our kids took for granted, and these kids don't have that opportunity, so.

2278
03:24:12,440 --> 03:24:19,000
Thank you, Chairman, and I just reiterate, really, I do believe, and I think that the bill really allows an all-skate.

2279
03:24:19,200 --> 03:24:25,200
I may be dating myself by saying that, but we need all hands on deck, and I don't believe there's anything in this bill that precludes that.

2280
03:24:25,300 --> 03:24:29,140
In fact, there's some things that protect it, so thank you.

2281
03:24:29,140 --> 03:24:34,720
Thank you. We got a number of questions here. Go ahead, President Padden and Representative Rodriguez.

2282
03:24:35,260 --> 03:24:39,860
Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and Mr. Frank, thank you. I also want to thank you for doing this.

2283
03:24:40,520 --> 03:24:46,860
I think doing this is a stand-alone bill like you're doing here is we should thank you for that as well,

2284
03:24:46,880 --> 03:24:49,680
because this is a conversation we would have had at some point in this session,

2285
03:24:50,040 --> 03:24:53,620
either on the floor most likely, or something else.

2286
03:24:53,880 --> 03:24:56,460
And to me, this is a better way to go about it.

2287
03:24:56,460 --> 03:24:59,340
And I know you've been very thoughtful in trying to work with folks on this.

2288
03:25:00,000 --> 03:25:29,860
I want to ask you, and you've mentioned this in your layout, and I think that was important. What I have heard, you know, the concerns seem to be around issues of potential discrimination. And so if we could let's start there, and if you could just kind of expand on that a little bit and tell us how you would respond to concerns about this in some way would lead to discrimination. Yeah, I mean, I think at the end of the day this allows everyone to participate. It doesn't force everybody to participate. And I look at my own

2289
03:25:30,760 --> 03:25:32,180
experience in the foster care system.

2290
03:25:32,180 --> 03:25:35,860
My wife and I, as you know, adopted out of the foster care system.

2291
03:25:36,640 --> 03:25:42,060
Well, one of the things we did when we trained, we gave a list of what type of child we

2292
03:25:42,060 --> 03:25:42,560
were looking for.

2293
03:25:42,900 --> 03:25:44,880
We had four boys of our own.

2294
03:25:45,640 --> 03:25:50,640
And so when we said what kind of boys we wanted, or what kind of kids we wanted, we said

2295
03:25:50,640 --> 03:25:51,280
we wanted boys.

2296
03:25:51,620 --> 03:25:53,560
It wasn't that we were discriminating against girls.

2297
03:25:54,180 --> 03:26:00,580
I just, A, wouldn't know what to do with them and B, we don't have, you know, we just, that was our choice.

2298
03:26:00,740 --> 03:26:08,040
Now, if that is discriminating because when I chose to participate, I said we wanted, we said we wanted boys.

2299
03:26:08,460 --> 03:26:13,860
And the same, I would say, we also said we wanted over six or seven or eight years old because I'm 50 years old and

2300
03:26:14,600 --> 03:26:18,740
didn't want a newborn, you know, but that's not discriminating, that allows me to participate.

2301
03:26:19,580 --> 03:26:22,420
And so I would say that's the case with all these foster care providers.

2302
03:26:22,420 --> 03:26:35,120
I think if we can have, you know, the fact that we could have a Muslim foster care group working with that, we could have LGBT groups working with that, Christian groups working with that, we don't, not everybody has to train everybody.

2303
03:26:35,340 --> 03:26:43,120
I don't believe that's, that is not in my definition of discrimination, the fact that you can participate is what we're, what we're allowing.

2304
03:26:43,120 --> 03:26:43,180
One.

2305
03:26:43,500 --> 03:26:43,580
All right.

2306
03:26:44,060 --> 03:26:44,140
All right.

2307
03:26:44,340 --> 03:26:45,120
Thank you.

2308
03:26:45,740 --> 03:26:46,540
Go ahead.

2309
03:26:46,660 --> 03:26:46,720
Go ahead, Rick.

2310
03:26:46,720 --> 03:26:46,940
Thank you.

2311
03:26:48,420 --> 03:26:49,120
We're representative.

2312
03:26:49,400 --> 03:26:53,560
As you mentioned, we served that bipartisan working group.

2313
03:26:53,720 --> 03:26:53,960
Absolutely.

2314
03:26:54,420 --> 03:26:56,740
And I know you're coming from a good place.

2315
03:26:56,880 --> 03:26:57,840
I mean, you have a good heart.

2316
03:26:58,000 --> 03:26:58,740
And we talked about this.

2317
03:26:58,880 --> 03:27:01,160
And we share a lot of our concerns and values.

2318
03:27:01,320 --> 03:27:09,740
As particularly as it pertains to allowing people of faith to be able to be part of the foster care system in terms of fostering children.

2319
03:27:09,740 --> 03:27:13,900
and we are in total agreement on that, so let's just be clear there.

2320
03:27:15,620 --> 03:27:25,420
But this does raise a lot of questions, this is an easy bill, really it's complicated bill, so I want to ask you just a couple of questions about it.

2321
03:27:26,360 --> 03:27:34,800
On the, this would be page 4 where we're going to get to the meat of it that 4, line 6, and 9, we're talking about.

2322
03:27:36,560 --> 03:27:54,780
This government entity may not discriminate against or take adverse action against a child or welfare services provider on the basis of holy or partly that the provider, and this is the meat of it I think, has declined or will declined to provide facilitated referred a person for child welfare services.

2323
03:27:54,780 --> 03:28:01,460
that conflict or under circumstances that conflict with the provider sincerely held religious beliefs.

2324
03:28:02,560 --> 03:28:05,760
So do you foresee any kind of limitation to that?

2325
03:28:05,980 --> 03:28:12,420
In other words, you might have someone who has a very sincerely held religious belief

2326
03:28:12,420 --> 03:28:17,120
that we shouldn't see a doctor or a blood transfusion is something that we

2327
03:28:17,120 --> 03:28:19,120
That's a great answer, or is it a very good number?

2328
03:28:19,320 --> 03:28:19,560
Any number?

2329
03:28:19,800 --> 03:28:19,900
Sure.

2330
03:28:20,440 --> 03:28:26,780
To some degree, depending, you could have a sincere, sincere, religious belief that the girls

2331
03:28:26,780 --> 03:28:28,400
shouldn't get educated, shouldn't go to school.

2332
03:28:28,560 --> 03:28:31,180
So how does this, how does this work within those?

2333
03:28:31,640 --> 03:28:37,240
Well, this only gives you, this only gives you, and we do have some experts that will test

2334
03:28:37,240 --> 03:28:40,340
to find some on some of this in terms of exactly what it is.

2335
03:28:40,340 --> 03:28:44,780
But let me just tell you, my understanding and belief of what it does.

2336
03:28:44,780 --> 03:28:48,920
It only gives you the ability to not do something.

2337
03:28:49,520 --> 03:28:55,020
So for instance, one of the cases in a tragedy, let's say you have a 16-year-old, you're

2338
03:28:55,020 --> 03:28:55,540
fostering.

2339
03:28:55,960 --> 03:28:57,980
They need an abortion, or they want an abortion.

2340
03:28:59,080 --> 03:28:59,180
Okay?

2341
03:28:59,760 --> 03:29:04,000
Obviously that could put a foster parent who doesn't believe that that is something they want

2342
03:29:04,000 --> 03:29:05,600
to participate in in a bad situation.

2343
03:29:06,660 --> 03:29:10,780
They would have the ability to call CPS and then CPS would handle it as the state agency

2344
03:29:10,780 --> 03:29:16,960
who is exempt from this and they wouldn't be their organization and themselves as a foster parent

2345
03:29:16,960 --> 03:29:24,620
wouldn't be put in a position of being sued for not providing that service. All of this is

2346
03:29:24,620 --> 03:29:28,840
superseded by the best interest of the child. You have to do that. But if somebody, for instance,

2347
03:29:28,840 --> 03:29:34,500
was, let's say they didn't believe in vaccinations as long, they still have to communicate that with

2348
03:29:34,500 --> 03:29:40,540
CPS. If you've been a foster parent, you communicate everything with CPS and CPS can still step in and

2349
03:29:40,540 --> 03:29:46,880
provide that service and make reasonable accommodations for that, but it, you know, there's, it doesn't

2350
03:29:46,880 --> 03:29:48,820
allow anything beyond that.

2351
03:29:48,980 --> 03:29:52,020
So, if you mentioned vaccination, that's a good example.

2352
03:29:52,060 --> 03:29:52,400
Right, yeah.

2353
03:29:52,480 --> 03:29:57,600
I thought you would kind of sort of mention on that or that quite yet, but, or transfusions, I'm sorry, you mentioned

2354
03:29:57,600 --> 03:30:00,000
information that you have people that I don't know.

2355
03:30:00,000 --> 03:30:29,820
It's a necessarily religious belief, but they do have a strong belief. That's why it was important that we, there was nothing that changed the best interest of the child. That's why we were saying the best interest of the child supersedes that. I mean, that has to be done. And that's why also the SSCC's are included as the government entity as well for that. So you have that overarching protection. Okay, so let's go back to vaccination. So I have a sincere religious belief that that is it's against my religion, right? And I just sincerely believe that. Sure.

2356
03:30:29,820 --> 03:30:35,740
And I foster a child, and so CPS could make me provide the vaccines or not?

2357
03:30:36,000 --> 03:30:40,720
Well, I mean, the way that would anticipate working in, by the way, we'll have, you know,

2358
03:30:40,840 --> 03:30:45,040
DFPS is here and you can ask that specific question because, you know, this is a bill

2359
03:30:45,040 --> 03:30:48,760
that's not in force yet, so how it's going to be implemented in the field will be up to them.

2360
03:30:48,760 --> 03:30:53,240
But the way I would assume it would work, you would call and say, this is something that the doctor is saying

2361
03:30:53,240 --> 03:30:56,720
that we need to do, but I'm not comfortable doing it for whatever reason.

2362
03:30:56,720 --> 03:30:57,960
would you do that?

2363
03:30:58,340 --> 03:30:59,720
Because CPS does that all the time.

2364
03:30:59,860 --> 03:31:03,380
I mean, there are accommodations made for foster parents, whether they're working

2365
03:31:03,380 --> 03:31:03,900
get sick.

2366
03:31:04,180 --> 03:31:06,320
I mean, there's accommodations made all the time.

2367
03:31:06,380 --> 03:31:08,160
All we're asking is for reasonable accommodations.

2368
03:31:09,180 --> 03:31:11,340
Well, I need to have that answer your question.

2369
03:31:11,700 --> 03:31:12,540
I think it does.

2370
03:31:12,660 --> 03:31:18,440
I think it leaves a lot open to how the agency might do this, which I think with a bill

2371
03:31:18,440 --> 03:31:22,740
like this, there's a lot of scenarios that aren't just hypothetical that really could

2372
03:31:22,740 --> 03:31:28,500
that would happen that I think maybe could be addressed here.

2373
03:31:28,740 --> 03:31:33,240
And really the main thing that we're trying to address at the end of the day,

2374
03:31:33,240 --> 03:31:40,080
to keep foster care providers out there, is we're trying to give some protections to lawsuits

2375
03:31:40,080 --> 03:31:44,060
that have nothing to do with the questions that you're asking about the safety of the child.

2376
03:31:44,060 --> 03:31:49,760
They have to do with organizations being targeted for not agreeing with certain things.

2377
03:31:49,760 --> 03:31:52,640
They are being targeted and sued by people who are not providing foster care.

2378
03:31:52,820 --> 03:31:53,880
That's really what we're trying to do.

2379
03:31:54,080 --> 03:31:56,300
We're not trying to open.

2380
03:31:56,300 --> 03:31:57,960
Well, we're not trying to open to the OVC for.

2381
03:31:58,600 --> 03:32:02,500
Well, I mean, the two that have been the biggest issues are the abortion issue.

2382
03:32:02,740 --> 03:32:04,340
And some of that is sued for damages.

2383
03:32:04,680 --> 03:32:09,300
Some is just not included in government programs if you're not willing to do that.

2384
03:32:09,880 --> 03:32:14,860
And the second is same-sex couples is you go in and ask, you know,

2385
03:32:14,860 --> 03:32:37,160
So, Catholic Charities, Buckners, any of the number of places that are out there, and you ask for training, now the reality is I'm not sure why they would, because it's about 25% of the places do training, there's plenty of places that LGBT couples can go, but basically if, let's say you go to Catholic Charities to target them and then you sue them for not training.

2386
03:32:38,720 --> 03:32:41,240
The same-sex couple, which, by the way, they also don't train.

2387
03:32:41,740 --> 03:32:43,180
And each one has their own guidelines.

2388
03:32:43,280 --> 03:32:44,700
They also don't train unmarried couples.

2389
03:32:44,860 --> 03:32:48,740
So theoretically, you could have an unmarried couple sue for them not training.

2390
03:32:48,900 --> 03:32:52,280
That just doesn't, it's not happening, but that would be one of the protections

2391
03:32:52,860 --> 03:32:54,560
that I believe would exist in the bill.

2392
03:32:55,040 --> 03:33:00,800
So how would this work, let's say that the child is gay, right?

2393
03:33:02,160 --> 03:33:05,680
And say, you mentioned Catholic charities, and that's why I'm just going to say that.

2394
03:33:05,680 --> 03:33:07,280
I'm sure there are some charities as well, you know.

2395
03:33:07,740 --> 03:33:09,600
We don't want to place a gay child.

2396
03:33:10,060 --> 03:33:11,100
Is that so?

2397
03:33:11,200 --> 03:33:17,600
Well, that's not, hey, that's not happening because almost all these are, they are willing to take any child, okay?

2398
03:33:17,760 --> 03:33:22,600
And again, and it's a great question that my layout was already long enough.

2399
03:33:22,620 --> 03:33:25,440
I was going to kind of lay out the way foster care works.

2400
03:33:26,320 --> 03:33:32,660
But the CPS, when they place a child, they are supposed to place them taking into consideration a litany of things.

2401
03:33:32,660 --> 03:33:35,520
but all of it under the heading of the best interest of the child.

2402
03:33:36,180 --> 03:33:44,840
So you wouldn't likely place an LGBT kid in the home of a devout Baptist Catholic, whatever,

2403
03:33:46,260 --> 03:33:48,820
if that wasn't something you discussed with them.

2404
03:33:49,100 --> 03:33:53,640
Nor would you, if you happen to have a child coming out of a devout Catholic, place them

2405
03:33:53,640 --> 03:33:56,380
in the home of somebody who didn't go to church.

2406
03:33:57,000 --> 03:33:58,020
That's not discrimination.

2407
03:33:58,660 --> 03:34:04,920
that's the responsibility of CPS to place the child in an area that they are going to be best suited for,

2408
03:34:05,120 --> 03:34:07,820
which is why we need providers of all stripes.

2409
03:34:08,640 --> 03:34:12,120
You know, we need Catholic homes, we need LGBT homes, we need all those homes.

2410
03:34:12,640 --> 03:34:15,680
We actually need to work together, but we don't all have to think the same.

2411
03:34:16,060 --> 03:34:20,480
Yeah, and I think there's a lot of witnesses and so that's fine.

2412
03:34:20,540 --> 03:34:21,020
So let me show.

2413
03:34:21,400 --> 03:34:23,320
No, no, no, no, no, I didn't mean that.

2414
03:34:23,940 --> 03:34:29,440
But I'm saying, I know you and I agree completely, and I think everybody on that, the

2415
03:34:29,440 --> 03:34:35,960
10 member bipartisan working group agree that people, that people of face shouldn't feel

2416
03:34:35,960 --> 03:34:37,260
like they can't be part of this.

2417
03:34:37,480 --> 03:34:40,900
I mean, the more the better is we all agree on that, I guess.

2418
03:34:41,180 --> 03:34:41,280
Right.

2419
03:34:41,800 --> 03:34:43,660
And I think it's the, I'm sorry, I'll cut you off.

2420
03:34:43,940 --> 03:34:44,240
No, it's okay.

2421
03:34:44,400 --> 03:34:49,300
But one thing I was going to say, I think the only real, the only difference is I think if

2422
03:34:49,300 --> 03:34:56,160
If you have certain providers, if they want to be part of the process, they want to be

2423
03:34:56,160 --> 03:34:59,860
You know, a place foster kids would be fostered.

2424
03:35:01,300 --> 03:35:29,860
I just don't understand why we have to do a car about why they just play by the rules, like everybody else, because I know there's willing people of faith that want to do this. And so I don't know if the fear of getting sued, if that's going to be the deal. Well, it's not just the fear of getting sued. It's the very real, it's the very real getting sued. I mean, it's the, it's the getting sued. And again, you know, the most frustrating thing, this is not sued by people who are trying to get in the foster care system and want to. But how many lawsuits are we talking about? Well, I'll, I'll, we'll have some of the providers

2425
03:35:29,860 --> 03:35:35,100
Let's talk about the lawsuits and the dollars and the number of people that are no longer being able to foster because of it.

2426
03:35:35,800 --> 03:35:44,120
And it's really, again, but it's people who are not in the business of foster care suing those that are over something that has nothing to do with the kid.

2427
03:35:44,780 --> 03:35:46,820
And that's what we're trying to prevent, I believe.

2428
03:35:48,300 --> 03:35:49,420
All right, thank you.

2429
03:35:50,100 --> 03:35:50,280
Representative Barr.

2430
03:35:51,740 --> 03:35:52,780
Thank you, Representative Frank.

2431
03:35:52,780 --> 03:35:56,720
echoing what the Chairman and Representative Patty said, I want to thank you for doing this.

2432
03:35:57,200 --> 03:36:01,260
I also want to break a confidence, if you don't mind, that I have to say that everything

2433
03:36:01,260 --> 03:36:06,160
that you are saying here today, in front of the cameras in front of the audience on the

2434
03:36:06,160 --> 03:36:11,740
mic, is exactly what you told me in my office, just the two of us, what your intent of this

2435
03:36:11,740 --> 03:36:15,900
bill was, what the purpose of it was, the fact that it is supposed to be inclusionary

2436
03:36:15,900 --> 03:36:20,220
in nature and not discriminatory, and the fact that what we are trying to do is broaden

2437
03:36:20,220 --> 03:36:24,400
the base for foster kids, and I just want to commend you for that, because oftentimes we know there

2438
03:36:24,400 --> 03:36:28,780
might be conversations that go on elsewhere in this building, and then the true intent of the bill may not

2439
03:36:28,780 --> 03:36:33,760
be found or be known. I have to commend you that this is exactly what you told me what the bill is

2440
03:36:33,760 --> 03:36:37,140
supposed to do, and so thank you for bringing this bill. I think it's an important legislation.

2441
03:36:38,140 --> 03:36:42,720
And I want to get back to a point that you and I discussed as well, and I know Representative Rodriguez has

2442
03:36:42,720 --> 03:36:50,140
asked you about this is one of the most compelling points to me about needing the faith-based

2443
03:36:50,720 --> 03:36:52,060
folks included in our process.

2444
03:36:52,160 --> 03:36:55,780
You explained to me, and maybe you can expand a little bit, but if you want to defer to

2445
03:36:55,780 --> 03:36:56,840
another witness, that's fine.

2446
03:36:57,500 --> 03:37:03,500
As to the number of faith-based folks who are actually exiting the foster care, can you

2447
03:37:03,500 --> 03:37:04,380
expand on that a little bit?

2448
03:37:04,540 --> 03:37:08,280
Because I believe there's somebody maybe in South Texas that you and I discussed it, if

2449
03:37:08,280 --> 03:37:11,420
you don't mind, just kind of a minute or two on that, it was very compelling to me that

2450
03:37:11,420 --> 03:37:14,640
But what we're trying to do is the best interest of the children and the best way to do that

2451
03:37:14,640 --> 03:37:17,040
is have many folks willing to serve.

2452
03:37:17,280 --> 03:37:21,300
Yeah, and again, many folks of all types because the point is to meet the best interest

2453
03:37:21,300 --> 03:37:21,900
of the child.

2454
03:37:22,220 --> 03:37:25,840
The point really isn't about all of the political stuff.

2455
03:37:25,880 --> 03:37:29,480
It's to have as many quality homes as possible, some that will take boys, some that will take

2456
03:37:29,480 --> 03:37:32,160
girls, some that will take LGBT, some that will take to out Catholics.

2457
03:37:32,720 --> 03:37:36,580
We need to have, going back to my old fashioned, it's an all-skate.

2458
03:37:37,780 --> 03:37:39,260
I don't have great numbers.

2459
03:37:39,260 --> 03:37:49,240
I do know, I mean, a lot of states literally have lost where they've allowed these lawsuits to continue, have lost all of their faith-based providers, which right now makes up about 25% of the state.

2460
03:37:50,020 --> 03:37:54,920
There have been parts of, and I will let them expound on their numbers if we can.

2461
03:37:56,000 --> 03:37:59,780
But there have been a number of, I know, Catholic Charities has had to close down some.

2462
03:38:00,000 --> 03:38:04,320
There's a number that are not expanding because of, you know, people say, well, it's all about the money.

2463
03:38:04,320 --> 03:38:19,200
Well, at the end of the day, when you're trying to serve people, at some point do you want your money going to lawyers or do you want your money going to serve kids or if you have to move over into another arena over there is not all about the money but we're all supposed to be stewards and

2464
03:38:20,320 --> 03:38:28,360
again, I just I don't think that we should allow people who are not in the system and not helping the system to be pushing out any of the providers.

2465
03:38:28,960 --> 03:38:32,780
So, I know there is an expand on that as much as possible, but if they can't, I'd like

2466
03:38:32,780 --> 03:38:33,940
to leave the numbers to the bottom.

2467
03:38:33,940 --> 03:38:39,460
The final point, I mean, to the extent that one of the questions, well, why don't

2468
03:38:39,460 --> 03:38:40,780
we have them play by the same rules?

2469
03:38:41,080 --> 03:38:42,900
Is it your opinion in working on this bill?

2470
03:38:43,180 --> 03:38:46,420
It's because the rules that are currently in place are not working, correct?

2471
03:38:46,800 --> 03:38:51,200
Well, I think, yeah, there is not other groups are not being targeted with lawsuits.

2472
03:38:51,620 --> 03:38:57,020
I mean, at the end of the day, this is not an offensive move by faith-based providers

2473
03:38:57,900 --> 03:39:00,920
saying we want to push anyone out of the system.

2474
03:39:01,540 --> 03:39:06,980
This is a proactive move saying we want you to stop suing us out of the system.

2475
03:39:07,980 --> 03:39:08,940
In the best interest of the child?

2476
03:39:09,480 --> 03:39:09,840
Absolutely.

2477
03:39:10,020 --> 03:39:10,940
In the best interest of the child.

2478
03:39:11,040 --> 03:39:15,660
These are people who say, my faith compels me to do something, but I'm getting crushed and doing it.

2479
03:39:16,040 --> 03:39:17,100
Well, thank you so much, Representative Frank.

2480
03:39:17,260 --> 03:39:17,540
Appreciate it.

2481
03:39:17,580 --> 03:39:17,740
Thank you.

2482
03:39:18,940 --> 03:39:19,160
Frank.

2483
03:39:21,020 --> 03:39:22,040
Oh, yes, sir.

2484
03:39:23,160 --> 03:39:23,700
Chairman Garrett.

2485
03:39:23,700 --> 03:39:36,580
James, I also want to thank you for the work you put into this and I want to echo Representative Myers comments because it's exactly what you told me to and I appreciate and reading it, I truly believe that that's where you're going.

2486
03:39:37,080 --> 03:39:42,420
But help me understand who determines what's in the best interest of the child and that CPS.

2487
03:39:42,960 --> 03:39:44,380
That is, that is CPS.

2488
03:39:45,980 --> 03:39:50,400
And there's SSCC language in there, which is single source continuum care providers.

2489
03:39:51,120 --> 03:39:54,020
And that's only in one region now, but it is something we're looking at.

2490
03:39:54,120 --> 03:39:59,000
But essentially that organization gets a monopoly for an area.

2491
03:39:59,420 --> 03:40:00,000
Right now there's-

2492
03:40:00,000 --> 03:40:28,880
Just one, but we're looking at more. Those, and again, that organization is excluded because they are acting with essentially a government monopoly. And so that's why they are excluded because they have to be willing to deal with everybody in my opinion, and in the interest of getting the right number of homes. So they are the ones that make that decision because we are the ones who are the custodian of the child. They make that decision. They make that determination. They make the placement of where the home,

2493
03:40:28,880 --> 03:40:34,400
where where where the child is placed, you know, once they are removed from the parent.

2494
03:40:35,040 --> 03:40:41,500
Either that, whatever the Mitchell's on, or CPS determine what's in the best interest of the child.

2495
03:40:41,600 --> 03:40:47,380
Yes, sir, and neither one of those are touched by this protection, if you will, because they and again,

2496
03:40:47,460 --> 03:40:54,140
that's why many of these organizations will never ask to be an SSEC because they're not going to be given protection in that.

2497
03:40:54,140 --> 03:40:59,160
But again, they have to deal with every kid in that organization, excuse me, in that area.

2498
03:40:59,480 --> 03:41:04,760
And they have to deal with every person who wants to participate and is qualified to participate in the foster care system.

2499
03:41:05,120 --> 03:41:07,140
So that's why they're excluded from this bill.

2500
03:41:07,540 --> 03:41:08,420
Thank you very much.

2501
03:41:08,540 --> 03:41:10,040
And again, thank you for your hard work on this.

2502
03:41:10,120 --> 03:41:10,620
Thank you.

2503
03:41:11,020 --> 03:41:14,060
And once again, in these children, there's not a lot of options.

2504
03:41:14,280 --> 03:41:16,880
A lot of these children are not eligible to be adopted, are they?

2505
03:41:17,700 --> 03:41:18,920
No, a lot of them are not.

2506
03:41:19,140 --> 03:41:23,860
But all of the foster kids, you know, I mean, all the foster kids when they come in, most of them are not eligible.

2507
03:41:23,860 --> 03:41:28,920
to be adopted until, until such time as the state and the judge makes the determination

2508
03:41:28,920 --> 03:41:33,180
and then most of them, most of them will be eligible at some point, but they're not immediately eligible.

2509
03:41:33,180 --> 03:41:34,160
But that's my point.

2510
03:41:34,380 --> 03:41:38,480
I mean, they're coming from some bad situations.

2511
03:41:39,380 --> 03:41:41,140
Extraordinary negative situations.

2512
03:41:42,040 --> 03:41:52,260
And you, we need more folks that are willing to be part of the fostering system are not less.

2513
03:41:52,260 --> 03:41:52,360
Yes.

2514
03:41:52,600 --> 03:41:52,880
Absolutely.

2515
03:41:53,440 --> 03:41:54,400
And again.

2516
03:41:54,740 --> 03:41:56,100
No trend that we suggest we're going to have.

2517
03:41:56,120 --> 03:41:59,340
There's no trend that we're going to need less.

2518
03:41:59,600 --> 03:42:00,200
That's what I thought.

2519
03:42:01,260 --> 03:42:04,260
Well, if you're ready, we'll...

2520
03:42:05,040 --> 03:42:05,560
Do you have a choice?

2521
03:42:06,300 --> 03:42:07,300
Do you have a choice?

2522
03:42:08,200 --> 03:42:09,280
We'll let you...

2523
03:42:09,280 --> 03:42:10,740
We'll let you as are the right to close.

2524
03:42:11,580 --> 03:42:15,240
There are a lot of witnesses on this bill.

2525
03:42:15,240 --> 03:42:19,220
So what we're going to do is we're going to ask you to come up

2526
03:42:19,220 --> 03:42:21,020
and give three minutes for the test.

2527
03:42:21,020 --> 03:42:29,980
one we may have questions in addition to that and once again try to give us something

2528
03:42:31,700 --> 03:42:38,920
that adds to the discussion and if all you've got is to say I agree with the last person

2529
03:42:38,920 --> 03:42:47,040
and that's well received too so anyway we'll go ahead and start with our first witness Randy

2530
03:42:47,040 --> 03:42:53,100
Daniel's Vice President, Dr. Children and Family Services here to speak for the bill.

2531
03:42:53,220 --> 03:42:57,700
And it just has a reminder for everybody you need to come up and give us your name,

2532
03:42:58,160 --> 03:43:03,020
who you represent in your position on the bill, whether you're for or against or neutral.

2533
03:43:04,340 --> 03:43:05,120
Thank you, Chairman.

2534
03:43:05,700 --> 03:43:06,580
Good afternoon.

2535
03:43:06,920 --> 03:43:08,800
For the record, my name is Randy Daniels.

2536
03:43:09,100 --> 03:43:12,520
Vice President for program development at the Dr. Children and Family Services.

2537
03:43:13,420 --> 03:43:15,440
I'm providing testimony on behalf of the Dr.

2538
03:43:15,440 --> 03:43:19,800
non-profit community-based provider of child welfare and foster care services.

2539
03:43:20,260 --> 03:43:26,040
Mr. Chairman and members, Buckner Children and Family Services fully supports House Bill 3859.

2540
03:43:27,380 --> 03:43:31,360
Buckner and like-minded faith-based organizations are dedicated to providing care for

2541
03:43:31,360 --> 03:43:38,160
Texas's most vulnerable children as non-profit community-based providers of child welfare foster care and adoption.

2542
03:43:39,420 --> 03:43:44,160
Buckner was founded 136 years ago by Dr. Robert Buckner.

2543
03:43:44,160 --> 03:43:48,680
after seeing the needs of hurting orphan children

2544
03:43:48,680 --> 03:43:49,880
in post-civil war, Texas.

2545
03:43:50,400 --> 03:43:53,160
In the first years, Buckner was filled with children

2546
03:43:53,160 --> 03:43:55,400
left parentless due to disease and hardship.

2547
03:43:56,120 --> 03:43:58,460
Buckner has faithfully cared for vulnerable children

2548
03:43:58,460 --> 03:44:00,940
to this day, and will continue its faith

2549
03:44:00,940 --> 03:44:02,240
and community-based mission.

2550
03:44:02,980 --> 03:44:05,840
Working closely with the staff of Child Protective Services,

2551
03:44:06,400 --> 03:44:08,940
Buckner had liked mind in faith-based child placement

2552
03:44:08,940 --> 03:44:11,460
agencies in Texas, provide loving homes for children.

2553
03:44:11,460 --> 03:44:17,560
last year a Buckner had an average of 408 children in foster care on any given day,

2554
03:44:18,040 --> 03:44:22,800
placed in 223 families and we completed 103 adoptions.

2555
03:44:23,600 --> 03:44:29,940
Simultaneously, other like-minded agencies cared for more than 3,000 children with

2556
03:44:29,940 --> 03:44:36,400
over 2,000 foster homes, helping to alleviate the problem of capacity in the CPS system.

2557
03:44:37,140 --> 03:44:48,480
Members, as you continue to deliberate House Bill 30A 59, ask you to adopt an act statutes that allow Buckner and other non-profit community-based providers to live out our faith.

2558
03:44:50,650 --> 03:44:59,930
To say it another way, we believe there's room for all quality social service agencies who desire to care for the children of Texas to be at the top.

2559
03:45:00,580 --> 03:45:29,400
The good work of this committee, by voting and passing the House Bill 3859, and the law of Unable Buckner to continue the mission that we have faithfully served since 1879. This legislation provides protections for faith-based providers and fulfilling our God-given calling to serve the most vulnerable children in Texas. We know that without these protections, many faith-based providers would feel forced out of the foster care space, causing even more harm to these children due to the capacity

2560
03:45:29,400 --> 03:45:31,900
the shortage in the system that already exist.

2561
03:45:32,780 --> 03:45:35,060
Members, you balance public policy every day.

2562
03:45:36,300 --> 03:45:37,820
We know and represent each,

2563
03:45:38,040 --> 03:45:41,300
represent to each of you that House Bill 3859

2564
03:45:41,300 --> 03:45:43,280
accommodates the needs and desires

2565
03:45:44,050 --> 03:45:45,660
of those individuals or couples,

2566
03:45:46,140 --> 03:45:48,540
whose ideas differ from faith-based providers

2567
03:45:48,540 --> 03:45:51,480
while ensuring inclusion of organizations

2568
03:45:51,480 --> 03:45:52,920
like Buckner replace at the table,

2569
03:45:53,520 --> 03:45:56,000
underscoring that point with respect

2570
03:45:56,000 --> 03:45:58,100
to placing children with same-sex couples,

2571
03:45:58,100 --> 03:46:00,300
we don't take a stand against it.

2572
03:46:00,780 --> 03:46:05,240
We only ask that we also be allowed to live out our beliefs as we see them.

2573
03:46:05,940 --> 03:46:10,360
The issue being discussed today is about the families we recruit as foster and adoptive families.

2574
03:46:10,780 --> 03:46:13,720
And the compelling needs of children, their best interest.

2575
03:46:14,600 --> 03:46:21,780
We would continue and desire to continue to care for children regardless of race, religion, gender, or sexual identity.

2576
03:46:22,560 --> 03:46:25,540
Mr. Chairman and members, thank you very much for hearing me today.

2577
03:46:25,540 --> 03:46:29,960
That concludes my testimony, and I can answer any questions that you might have.

2578
03:46:30,500 --> 03:46:30,860
Mr. Chairman.

2579
03:46:31,100 --> 03:46:32,160
Okay, members, any questions?

2580
03:46:33,220 --> 03:46:41,280
Once again, absent this, would you be able to continue to complete your mission with respect

2581
03:46:41,280 --> 03:46:49,760
to fostering, to fulfill in our faith-based calling, let me say it in two ways.

2582
03:46:49,760 --> 03:46:57,960
One is, right now, our board has told us that there's a moratorium on our expansion

2583
03:46:57,960 --> 03:47:01,060
of foster care and adoption until this is resolved.

2584
03:47:01,620 --> 03:47:05,280
I mean, we're not going to expand as represented to Frank explained.

2585
03:47:05,880 --> 03:47:06,440
It's one thing.

2586
03:47:07,940 --> 03:47:16,800
I can't speak on behalf of what the board might vote in the future, but a decision could

2587
03:47:16,800 --> 03:47:21,960
be made that we're going to move our resource to other kinds of ministries if we don't get

2588
03:47:21,960 --> 03:47:22,460
the protections.

2589
03:47:22,980 --> 03:47:23,180
Okay.

2590
03:47:24,040 --> 03:47:24,700
Thank you.

2591
03:47:25,060 --> 03:47:25,500
Yes.

2592
03:47:25,560 --> 03:47:27,920
Representative Mayer and Rodríguez.

2593
03:47:29,340 --> 03:47:29,780
Okay.

2594
03:47:31,920 --> 03:47:32,860
Thank you for being here.

2595
03:47:33,080 --> 03:47:35,520
I just wanted to follow up on the question I had for Representative Frank.

2596
03:47:35,820 --> 03:47:39,360
Are you familiar with the lawsuits that Representative Frank was referring to?

2597
03:47:39,440 --> 03:47:43,640
You're talking about possibly having to move to other missions and please explain to us why

2598
03:47:43,640 --> 03:47:44,500
you would have to do that.

2599
03:47:44,780 --> 03:47:47,540
Well, yes, I am familiar with what he was talking about.

2600
03:47:47,540 --> 03:47:51,020
Now, because we, in the States, we only practice in Texas.

2601
03:47:51,300 --> 03:47:53,640
We've not faced lawsuits as of yet.

2602
03:47:54,380 --> 03:47:57,560
We do have other sister organizations across the country

2603
03:47:57,560 --> 03:48:00,460
that do this work that have faced lawsuits.

2604
03:48:01,240 --> 03:48:03,780
Even though I'm not aware of any of those that have actually gone

2605
03:48:03,780 --> 03:48:07,180
to court, there's been time and money resources spent

2606
03:48:07,180 --> 03:48:10,720
on legal proceedings and that kind of thing.

2607
03:48:11,580 --> 03:48:14,660
But that is one of our considerations moving forward.

2608
03:48:14,660 --> 03:48:29,180
If we're facing and having to spend our donor dollars and money that we intend for ministry on lawsuits, lawyers, and court time, that's going to play a big part in our board's decision.

2609
03:48:29,600 --> 03:48:34,300
And so that is an actual real deterrent to you continuing the decision to foster kids.

2610
03:48:34,560 --> 03:48:35,340
Correct. That'd be fair.

2611
03:48:35,480 --> 03:48:37,220
Yes, that's a fair statement.

2612
03:48:37,360 --> 03:48:38,100
Thank you so much for your time.

2613
03:48:38,320 --> 03:48:38,760
You're very welcome.

2614
03:48:39,220 --> 03:48:39,620
Yes.

2615
03:48:39,940 --> 03:48:40,120
Yes.

2616
03:48:40,280 --> 03:48:40,840
Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

2617
03:48:41,980 --> 03:48:46,140
Representative Meyer pretty much asked what I was going to ask, but I did want to say thank

2618
03:48:46,140 --> 03:48:47,780
you for your ministry and what you all do.

2619
03:48:47,880 --> 03:48:48,760
The services you provided.

2620
03:48:49,080 --> 03:48:49,680
It's very important.

2621
03:48:49,840 --> 03:48:50,800
I just want to commend you on that.

2622
03:48:50,900 --> 03:48:51,600
Oh, thank you very much.

2623
03:48:52,040 --> 03:48:52,660
Appreciate that.

2624
03:48:53,640 --> 03:48:53,980
Thank you.

2625
03:48:54,560 --> 03:48:55,720
Captain Pat, did you have it?

2626
03:48:55,800 --> 03:48:58,740
Thank you very much for being here in your testimony.

2627
03:48:58,980 --> 03:49:03,700
Joshua Houston General Counsel takes his impact here to speak against the bill.

2628
03:49:12,680 --> 03:49:12,900
Thank you.

2629
03:49:13,020 --> 03:49:13,660
I dropped my testimony.

2630
03:49:13,920 --> 03:49:14,280
Forgive me.

2631
03:49:22,600 --> 03:49:30,020
Good afternoon. My name is Joshua Houston. I'm General Counsel at Texas Impact and we're here respectfully opposed to House Bill 3859.

2632
03:49:30,920 --> 03:49:39,860
Texas Impact is a membership organization. Our member denominations have long been committed to the provision of child welfare services in the state.

2633
03:49:40,360 --> 03:49:45,580
We've also been deeply involved in the creation of Texas's faith and community based initiative over the last couple of decades.

2634
03:49:46,280 --> 03:49:49,980
The struggles of our child welfare system have been on the hearts and minds of our membership.

2635
03:49:50,300 --> 03:49:53,380
I've heard from Babdistan Tyler who want to know about reimbursement rates.

2636
03:49:53,600 --> 03:49:57,720
I've heard from Methodist and Pasadena who want to know where the budgets are at.

2637
03:49:57,840 --> 03:49:59,980
This session I've heard even from us.

2638
03:50:07,660 --> 03:50:29,980
So, we're here in opposition, but we have a desire to help. We've been visiting with the author, and we very much appreciate his championing the foster care issues this session. We agree wholeheartedly with the intent, the legislative intent, as it's expressed on the first page of the bill. However, the devil on these bills is in the details, as they say. There are provisions in the actual text of the bill that we have.

2639
03:50:29,980 --> 03:50:33,580
We fear open a Pandora's box of unintended consequences.

2640
03:50:34,680 --> 03:50:37,840
One, we have concerns about the scope of the bill that it's too broad.

2641
03:50:38,480 --> 03:50:43,100
Two, we have concerns about creating ways to evade regulatory enforcement.

2642
03:50:43,620 --> 03:50:52,160
And three, we have concerns that protecting the provider is overriding the religious liberty of other parties involved in these very complicated family law cases.

2643
03:50:52,780 --> 03:50:57,140
Those particulars are provided in our written testimony, but I do want to use one as an example.

2644
03:50:57,140 --> 03:51:02,740
that has to do with the physical disciplining of children, which can be a sincerely held religious belief for some groups.

2645
03:51:03,600 --> 03:51:10,240
Back in the 1970s, there were faith-based ministries that argued that licensing of children's homes violated their religious freedom.

2646
03:51:11,660 --> 03:51:19,800
Our member denominations strongly supported the Child Care Licensing Act back in 1975 because of a minister named Lester Rolloff in the People's Baptist Church.

2647
03:51:20,320 --> 03:51:26,400
He claimed that the Child Care Licensing Act didn't apply to him because of religious freedom.

2648
03:51:26,400 --> 03:51:33,100
After two interim studies by the legislature, 12 years of litigation, the state finally shut him down in 1985.

2649
03:51:33,700 --> 03:51:38,780
But some of you may remember that name because Rolloff Evangelistic Enterprises reopened in 1997.

2650
03:51:39,420 --> 03:51:51,140
The legislature has twice dealt with Lester Rolloff because the legislature didn't get the balance exactly right between religiously motivated conduct and protecting that and protecting the health and safety of children.

2651
03:51:51,140 --> 03:51:58,180
We need to be 100% certain that the health and safety of children prevails, and that's why the language is so important in these bills.

2652
03:51:58,780 --> 03:52:01,920
We have three principles that we think if applied, strike this balance.

2653
03:52:02,120 --> 03:52:06,360
We have handed out written testimony, and I'm referring to stuff that we have written on page 34.

2654
03:52:06,820 --> 03:52:10,960
But those three principles are this, that first government must not prefer or

2655
03:52:10,960 --> 03:52:15,480
disadvantage one faith relative to another, and that includes no faith at all.

2656
03:52:15,480 --> 03:52:22,300
Two, government must not force any person to act against their conscience unless there's a state interest that compels it.

2657
03:52:22,560 --> 03:52:27,620
And three, government must not permit adherence of one faith to harm non-adherence as an expression of faith.

2658
03:52:28,180 --> 03:52:30,940
The provision of child welfare is very fax-specific.

2659
03:52:31,500 --> 03:52:36,840
We think of bill negotiation with all the stakeholders as necessary to fully understand the implications of the language.

2660
03:52:37,540 --> 03:52:41,120
If this were a bill about electric utilities or copper recycling, that's what we would do.

2661
03:52:42,280 --> 03:52:47,840
The Texas Referee, which we passed in 99 in this very committee, very good example of this process of unreferencing.

2662
03:52:48,000 --> 03:52:57,680
We would urge this committee to follow the same process of having all the stakeholders negotiate the language out and not pass the bill until at least all the faith groups evolve, the faiths in Texas get to neutral in the bill.

2663
03:52:58,340 --> 03:53:00,360
We appreciate your work and we look forward to working with you.

2664
03:53:00,820 --> 03:53:02,140
Okay, members, any questions?

2665
03:53:05,050 --> 03:53:06,210
Yes, I wrote to you a brief read.

2666
03:53:06,450 --> 03:53:08,850
Briefly, thank you for being here at Testify.

2667
03:53:08,850 --> 03:53:14,490
Do you see any on the language that on page 4 that talks about, you know, the, you know,

2668
03:53:14,490 --> 03:53:19,310
the sincerely, sincerely held religious beliefs, any, for lack of a better word,

2669
03:53:19,490 --> 03:53:22,890
like, limitation on that other than, I guess, the best interest of the child?

2670
03:53:24,690 --> 03:53:25,870
I'm not that the standard.

2671
03:53:26,150 --> 03:53:27,770
I mean, I've not seen a committee sub.

2672
03:53:28,030 --> 03:53:30,810
I'm not seeing where the best interest of the child would prevail.

2673
03:53:32,190 --> 03:53:35,090
And with regard to discrimination, I'd refer to page 6.

2674
03:53:35,090 --> 03:53:40,050
These are some of the things that are trying to exempt out.

2675
03:53:41,110 --> 03:53:45,870
So some of the limitations, like on page six, you've got the area about not discriminating

2676
03:53:45,870 --> 03:53:50,330
based on race, ethnicity, or national origin, but it doesn't say religion, which is part

2677
03:53:50,330 --> 03:53:51,290
of the Civil Rights Act.

2678
03:53:51,850 --> 03:53:55,990
You could presumably have a provider discriminate against somebody of a different faith.

2679
03:53:57,750 --> 03:54:02,730
With regard to law enforcement or above it, it says law enforcement duties aren't inhibited,

2680
03:54:02,830 --> 03:54:04,170
but that requires probable cause.

2681
03:54:04,550 --> 03:54:10,310
We also have concerns that maybe D.F.P.S. couldn't get in in certain situations.

2682
03:54:10,350 --> 03:54:11,750
We want to make sure that that's not handled.

2683
03:54:11,850 --> 03:54:14,330
Part of the advantage of licensing is you don't require a probable cause.

2684
03:54:14,470 --> 03:54:15,090
You just get right in.

2685
03:54:15,270 --> 03:54:19,070
So when that was you're talking about on page 6, if you added religion or if you added sexual orientation

2686
03:54:19,070 --> 03:54:22,170
with that, could that solve some of this or?

2687
03:54:22,830 --> 03:54:23,910
Well, that's hard to say.

2688
03:54:24,030 --> 03:54:27,610
It's hard to say what all the different providers concerns are because faith is so diverse in Texas.

2689
03:54:27,750 --> 03:54:31,130
And we think figure out how to create that balance like we did with Texas Riffer.

2690
03:54:31,130 --> 03:54:46,330
or were 50 different faith groups all agreed it was a good bill is to get them all in a room and just really hammer out the it's very fact specific in these cases are so many different competing in parents and biological parents foster parents different providers secondary provider complicated thing. Thank you.

2691
03:54:47,860 --> 03:54:49,180
Members, any other questions?

2692
03:54:49,920 --> 03:54:51,340
We're going to take our next witness.

2693
03:55:00,140 --> 03:55:01,860
Lynn Harms.

2694
03:55:08,590 --> 03:55:36,150
Have you passed, president, children's home of Lubbock and South here to speak for the bill? Yes, sir. For the record, my name is Lynn Harms. I'm the past president of the Children's Home of Lubbock, and stick here on behalf of the testimony on behalf of the children's home and on myself as well. In operation, since 1954, the Children's Home of Lubbock is a non-profit. I am for the bill, yes, sir.

2695
03:55:37,410 --> 03:55:43,970
Non-profit multi-service campus that provides foster care and adoption services as well, serving children in Region 1.

2696
03:55:44,830 --> 03:55:48,630
The children's home of Lubbock fully supports HB 3859.

2697
03:55:49,230 --> 03:55:54,790
We believe that HB 3859 promotes diversity in the delivery of adoption and foster care services.

2698
03:55:55,250 --> 03:56:05,550
State of Texas has significant backlog of children available for adoption and a serious lack of foster parent resources with which to meet the needs of the children who are available.

2699
03:56:05,550 --> 03:56:07,330
and who are in desperate need.

2700
03:56:07,810 --> 03:56:10,670
This is a time Texas needs every available service delivery

2701
03:56:11,410 --> 03:56:14,870
organization providing quality services for children.

2702
03:56:15,270 --> 03:56:17,890
Children's home of Lubbock and agencies like ours need to bill

2703
03:56:17,890 --> 03:56:22,670
to ensure the ongoing delivery of service to children and families.

2704
03:56:23,270 --> 03:56:24,650
Today the Children's Home of Lubbock

2705
03:56:24,650 --> 03:56:29,110
consummates an average of 24 adoptions each year

2706
03:56:29,430 --> 03:56:31,610
and our sister agency there in Lubbock, Texas,

2707
03:56:31,610 --> 03:56:35,390
as voice ranch consummates an average of 18 adoptions annually.

2708
03:56:35,910 --> 03:56:40,750
Our collective success in placement is extremely high even when working with very high needs

2709
03:56:41,250 --> 03:56:41,570
children.

2710
03:56:42,190 --> 03:56:46,810
As a faith-based agency, the Children's Home of Lubbock has provided foster care and adoption

2711
03:56:46,810 --> 03:56:54,670
services since 1955, the year after we opened, and since 1990, the strong majority of the

2712
03:56:54,670 --> 03:56:59,230
children we have placed have been children in the Texas foster care system.

2713
03:56:59,230 --> 03:57:03,410
Not only is the Children's Home of Lubbock fully licensed by the Department of Family

2714
03:57:03,410 --> 03:57:09,750
and Protective Services, we are accredited through the Council on Accreditation, and in

2715
03:57:09,750 --> 03:57:15,090
the next three months we'll be certified as a trauma informed program with certification

2716
03:57:15,090 --> 03:57:21,470
through the Sanctuary Institute, one of the premier trauma informed organizations in the

2717
03:57:21,470 --> 03:57:21,910
country.

2718
03:57:22,550 --> 03:57:27,350
Faith-based agencies providing care and services for children have been the backbone of

2719
03:57:27,350 --> 03:57:32,070
the foster care system in Texas for more than 100 years. Our agencies have done an excellent

2720
03:57:32,070 --> 03:57:37,790
job of blending biblical-based core values with evidence-based practices of the highest

2721
03:57:37,790 --> 03:57:42,690
caliber. In fact, we believe that the principle of good stewardship learned as a biblical

2722
03:57:42,690 --> 03:57:49,850
value compels us to provide the best services possible for the children and care. Children's

2723
03:57:49,850 --> 03:57:54,610
home of Lubbock has earned great success in adoption services, especially in placing

2724
03:57:54,610 --> 03:57:59,530
sibling groups together in adoption and with children exhibiting more extreme emotional

2725
03:57:59,530 --> 03:58:01,550
and behavioral challenges.

2726
03:58:01,790 --> 03:58:06,910
We are committed to finding families willing to adopt sibling groups and recruit specifically

2727
03:58:06,910 --> 03:58:08,530
for such families.

2728
03:58:09,090 --> 03:58:13,930
When it comes to working with kids with more extreme or emotional issues, we work with the

2729
03:58:13,930 --> 03:58:19,130
families who plan to adopt by training them with the same techniques our campus care employees

2730
03:58:19,130 --> 03:58:24,590
are taught and engage our on-staff therapists to train and assist families in quality

2731
03:58:24,590 --> 03:58:27,230
quality bonding and parenting skills.

2732
03:58:27,830 --> 03:58:33,270
We use our campus care providers often as mentors for those adoptive families who will

2733
03:58:33,270 --> 03:58:38,470
need increased skills to meet the demands of an adopted child with special behavioral

2734
03:58:38,470 --> 03:58:40,570
or emotional characteristics.

2735
03:58:41,430 --> 03:58:45,210
Opponents of HV 3859 will assert multiple forms of arguments.

2736
03:58:45,510 --> 03:58:50,930
However, this bill is narrowly tailored to protect a compelling government interest, protecting

2737
03:58:50,930 --> 03:58:52,050
vulnerable children.

2738
03:58:52,050 --> 03:58:55,730
This bill simply accommodates the sincerely held but

2739
03:58:55,730 --> 03:59:04,490
religious beliefs of foster and adoption service providers so that we can continue to deliver services for the children in need.

2740
03:59:05,190 --> 03:59:14,490
At a time when Speaker Strauss, Governor Abbott and Lieutenant Governor Patrick have publicly called for more churches and church members to become involved with foster care and adoption.

2741
03:59:14,670 --> 03:59:19,530
The faith-based foster care and adoption agencies are the ones these people will turn to.

2742
03:59:19,530 --> 03:59:24,970
and very often these churches are supporters and encourages of the ministries of

2743
03:59:24,970 --> 03:59:32,670
function programs. Mr. Chairman and committee members, HB 3859, will ensure

2744
03:59:32,670 --> 03:59:36,870
services to children while expanding the potential for placement for thousands of

2745
03:59:36,870 --> 03:59:42,370
Texas children waiting for a permanent home. That concludes my testimony and I'm

2746
03:59:42,370 --> 03:59:43,990
happy to answer any questions.

2747
03:59:43,990 --> 03:59:48,190
the chairman garen has a question anybody else have y'all been

2748
03:59:48,190 --> 03:59:53,570
suffocated these lawsuits we have not our board of directors has

2749
03:59:53,570 --> 03:59:58,810
wrestled with some of the issues coming up and and are religiously closely

2750
03:59:58,810 --> 03:59:59,350
held religious

2751
04:00:00,000 --> 04:00:29,860
We just believe of prime concern with our Board of Directors has been being forced to select families that we do not feel meet our values. And our Board has determined that if that push comes to Chauvin, we're required to do so. We will eliminate our foster care and adoption services. Thank you very much. And thank you for being here today. Thank you. Appreciate your testimony. Catherine Miller, President Texas Freedom Work, Freedom Network.

2752
04:00:29,860 --> 04:00:31,520
We're here to testify against the bill.

2753
04:00:37,040 --> 04:00:37,740
Good afternoon.

2754
04:00:38,220 --> 04:00:42,040
I'm Catherine Miller, President of the Texas Freedom Network.

2755
04:00:43,060 --> 04:00:51,240
The Texas Freedom Network represents more than 130,000 religious and community leaders from across the state who support religious freedom and individual liberties.

2756
04:00:51,640 --> 04:00:54,800
I'm here to testify in opposition to House Bill 3859.

2757
04:00:55,720 --> 04:01:00,860
There are some very serious potential problems with the bill and many have been mentioned today.

2758
04:01:00,860 --> 04:01:05,500
I want to start with an observation, and I haven't seen the committee substitute.

2759
04:01:06,020 --> 04:01:27,700
So, reference to child welfare being central is something that if it's changed, it certainly isn't in the original bill, because the entire child welfare system in Texas is predicated on the assumption that everyone involved at every level has as their first and overriding concern, doing what is in the best interest of the child period.

2760
04:01:27,700 --> 04:01:34,520
everything else is secondary and this bill represents a dangerous term because it makes the

2761
04:01:34,520 --> 04:01:40,340
religious beliefs and convictions of providers, the primary concern, and says that where

2762
04:01:40,340 --> 04:01:45,460
the welfare of a child conflicts with the religious dogma of an institution, the provider's

2763
04:01:45,460 --> 04:01:51,720
interests trump the child's interests. That's wrong and it's dangerous because it displaces

2764
04:01:51,720 --> 04:01:56,800
concern for the child at the center of child welfare. There are some serious problems. The

2765
04:01:56,800 --> 04:02:06,660
The primary point of this bill seems to be allowing individuals and organizations to use their religious beliefs to justify discrimination against LGBT children and families.

2766
04:02:07,140 --> 04:02:17,640
Child welfare agencies that receive taxpayer dollars or are acting on behalf of the state would be able to discriminate against responsible loving families that want to help those children.

2767
04:02:18,720 --> 04:02:24,240
Even more alarming, the expansive language in the bill might prevent child welfare organizations,

2768
04:02:24,820 --> 04:02:28,940
might permit child welfare organizations to encourage harmful and discredited

2769
04:02:28,940 --> 04:02:33,940
reparative therapy for minors, who are lesbian, gay, bisexual, or transgender.

2770
04:02:34,860 --> 04:02:39,240
Even if LGBT families are the primary target of the legislation, they're not the only

2771
04:02:39,240 --> 04:02:40,480
people who could face discrimination.

2772
04:02:41,060 --> 04:02:44,320
The broad language in this bill would allow private agencies to discriminate

2773
04:02:44,320 --> 04:02:50,640
against single or divorced people, interfaith couples, as well as people of different religious

2774
04:02:50,640 --> 04:02:55,380
faiths or denominations than the agencies themselves, even if they are relatives of

2775
04:02:55,380 --> 04:03:00,540
the child. Put simply this bill would allow individuals and organizations to use religion

2776
04:03:00,540 --> 04:03:06,240
to discriminate and harm others. Finally, I want to remind this committee what you've heard

2777
04:03:06,240 --> 04:03:12,000
before. Texas has a tragic history of partnering with child welfare organizations that use religious

2778
04:03:12,000 --> 04:03:13,820
just doctrine to mask child abuse.

2779
04:03:14,540 --> 04:03:16,760
Some of you remember roll-off homes,

2780
04:03:16,920 --> 04:03:19,600
you've been reminded about Leicester Roll-off already today.

2781
04:03:20,120 --> 04:03:22,960
I fear that passage of this bill would signal

2782
04:03:22,960 --> 04:03:24,620
to organizations like that,

2783
04:03:25,000 --> 04:03:27,200
that they might be welcome back in Texas.

2784
04:03:27,780 --> 04:03:30,520
I think before we pass sweeping new language

2785
04:03:30,520 --> 04:03:32,580
that could permit bad actors,

2786
04:03:33,000 --> 04:03:35,200
like roll-off homes to gain a foothold in Texas,

2787
04:03:35,540 --> 04:03:36,960
we should think very carefully

2788
04:03:36,960 --> 04:03:39,000
about the consequences of this bill.

2789
04:03:39,220 --> 04:03:40,360
Thank you very much.

2790
04:03:40,880 --> 04:03:44,300
Mr. Miller, a couple things number one, you've registered twice.

2791
04:03:44,860 --> 04:03:51,300
So I need to show you one time, I was Catherine Miller, Texas Freedom Network, and then you

2792
04:03:51,300 --> 04:03:57,700
registered separately as Catherine Miller representing yourself, both against the bill.

2793
04:03:58,640 --> 04:04:00,140
Oh, I only pushed one.

2794
04:04:00,480 --> 04:04:01,100
Okay, well.

2795
04:04:01,280 --> 04:04:01,500
Okay.

2796
04:04:02,700 --> 04:04:05,160
That's the way you're in, so we need to-

2797
04:04:05,160 --> 04:04:05,360
Okay.

2798
04:04:05,600 --> 04:04:05,780
Yeah.

2799
04:04:06,020 --> 04:04:07,360
So what do you need me to say?

2800
04:04:07,360 --> 04:04:10,340
No, I've got it in the record now, so I'm just fine.

2801
04:04:11,980 --> 04:04:18,100
I'm disappointed in your position, because it's obvious that what's being done here is

2802
04:04:18,100 --> 04:04:24,660
trying to make sure we have more folks that are doing this, and you're advocating for

2803
04:04:24,660 --> 04:04:30,800
less, and the reference to roll-off, I'm kind of struggling with that.

2804
04:04:30,800 --> 04:04:38,060
But this was an unlicensed facility, quite different from what we're talking about here.

2805
04:04:39,120 --> 04:04:44,500
And so your suggestion that we're going back to that is disappointing.

2806
04:04:45,400 --> 04:04:49,640
But if we, I'll give you the same thing I've said to you.

2807
04:04:49,640 --> 04:04:54,500
If you care about the kids, then you can figure out how to work with everybody and not be against.

2808
04:04:54,920 --> 04:04:56,580
It's easy to come in here and be against.

2809
04:04:56,940 --> 04:04:59,020
It's a lot harder to give solutions.

2810
04:04:59,020 --> 04:04:59,900
And we have care.

2811
04:05:00,000 --> 04:05:27,840
That are suffering while we're trying to figure this out. So I do, we need to try to do that, okay? I do agree that it's easier to be, to offer, to be opposed, than to offer solutions. However. And I want to let, I'm on, let Mr. Reption admire. I ask you a question. Okay. Hi. And I appreciate your intent. Like all of ours here is in the best interest of the child. You specifically referenced, however, in your testimony, you said that specifically contained in this legislation.

2812
04:05:29,120 --> 04:05:34,020
It's a provision that allows for religious beliefs to trump the welfare of the child.

2813
04:05:34,200 --> 04:05:38,220
Please point me to that language, specifically where it says that I can, I guess,

2814
04:05:38,380 --> 04:05:41,380
your point would be harm a child because my religion says it's okay.

2815
04:05:41,460 --> 04:05:42,640
I want to see that language like that.

2816
04:05:42,640 --> 04:05:46,420
It says that, so I'm reading from the bill.

2817
04:05:46,760 --> 04:05:47,700
Please read from the bill.

2818
04:05:48,160 --> 04:05:51,160
And let me know which section, because I want to, if we need to correct or address this.

2819
04:05:51,160 --> 04:05:53,660
No adverse action can be taken.

2820
04:05:54,440 --> 04:05:57,160
Okay, I'm sorry, I've got it on the computer.

2821
04:05:57,160 --> 04:06:01,120
So it says that no adverse action, where are we?

2822
04:06:02,680 --> 04:06:07,660
I have the wrong, or I don't have a page number in front of me.

2823
04:06:08,200 --> 04:06:10,500
So it's section,

2824
04:06:14,540 --> 04:06:15,420
correct.

2825
04:06:18,180 --> 04:06:19,040
Here we go.

2826
04:06:19,300 --> 04:06:20,420
Here's my printed copy.

2827
04:06:20,540 --> 04:06:21,140
I'm very sorry.

2828
04:06:22,740 --> 04:06:23,940
Yes, yes.

2829
04:06:27,040 --> 04:06:32,680
So actually, this happens here, a child welfare service provider may assert an actual

2830
04:06:32,680 --> 04:06:37,500
or threatened violation of this chapter as a claim or defense in a judicial or administrative proceeding.

2831
04:06:39,280 --> 04:06:44,300
They successfully assert a claim if, no, I'm so sorry.

2832
04:06:53,420 --> 04:06:54,180
Okay, here we go.

2833
04:06:55,660 --> 04:06:56,460
I'm on page four.

2834
04:06:57,560 --> 04:07:00,220
Line six, actually four, right?

2835
04:07:00,680 --> 04:07:04,580
A child welfare services provider on the basis, wholly or partly, that the provider.

2836
04:07:04,760 --> 04:07:07,740
So we cannot take any detrimental government action.

2837
04:07:07,740 --> 04:07:12,380
A government entity or any person that contracts with this state or operates under

2838
04:07:12,380 --> 04:07:15,640
governmental authority to refer a place children for welfare services may not

2839
04:07:15,640 --> 04:07:19,180
discriminate or take any adverse action against a child welfare services

2840
04:07:19,180 --> 04:07:23,420
provider on the basis wholly or partly that the provider has declined or will

2841
04:07:23,420 --> 04:07:26,820
decline to provide facilitated refer a person for child welfare services that

2842
04:07:26,820 --> 04:07:30,940
conflict with or under circumstances that conflict with the providers sincerely

2843
04:07:30,940 --> 04:07:37,020
held religious beliefs. That places the providers religious beliefs ahead of the

2844
04:07:37,020 --> 04:07:39,500
the interest of the child in making that determination.

2845
04:07:39,920 --> 04:07:40,220
Absolutely.

2846
04:07:40,500 --> 04:07:40,900
We can't.

2847
04:07:40,980 --> 04:07:41,300
But we're not.

2848
04:07:41,600 --> 04:07:42,240
Not even close.

2849
04:07:42,700 --> 04:07:43,520
It does not say that.

2850
04:07:43,840 --> 04:07:44,480
There's no way, no.

2851
04:07:44,580 --> 04:07:47,460
Your statement in your testimony was, I can abuse a kid and be

2852
04:07:47,460 --> 04:07:48,360
protected by my religion.

2853
04:07:48,380 --> 04:07:50,000
That's what your testimony was.

2854
04:07:50,100 --> 04:07:52,440
I'm just going off of that, but that is not what this provision

2855
04:07:52,440 --> 04:07:52,780
states.

2856
04:07:53,060 --> 04:07:59,700
So when, if you license an entity that believes in spare of the

2857
04:07:59,700 --> 04:08:04,780
rods, spoil the child in a biblical way, and then you determine

2858
04:08:04,780 --> 04:08:09,360
Again, that entity is behaving inappropriately.

2859
04:08:09,880 --> 04:08:15,840
It is unclear what kind of adverse action could be taken under this legislation.

2860
04:08:16,120 --> 04:08:19,800
Certainly, it would be litigated in a way that's different now.

2861
04:08:20,480 --> 04:08:30,620
Secondly, you're asking for a kind of supervision of providers that we can't even provide today,

2862
04:08:31,020 --> 04:08:31,200
right?

2863
04:08:31,200 --> 04:08:52,820
So you're saying the providers get to kind of the secondary providers get to pick and choose based on their religious beliefs what they will or will not enforce, and CPS will intervene when they find something out, when they detect a problem, which right now they're not even able to do that with respect to the children in their care.

2864
04:08:52,820 --> 04:08:59,480
Finally, a lot of the conversation today has been only about adoptive and foster care services.

2865
04:08:59,940 --> 04:09:08,660
But the bill is specific in outlining a number of child welfare services that are covered in this legislation.

2866
04:09:08,840 --> 04:09:15,060
And it isn't only adoption and foster care, it involves counseling of parents and families and children.

2867
04:09:15,400 --> 04:09:22,040
It involves group homes, it involves home evaluations, licensing, recruiting.

2868
04:09:22,040 --> 04:09:28,560
So all of these factors open the door to folks being able to assert, right?

2869
04:09:29,000 --> 04:09:34,720
Agencies being able to assert a sincerely held religious belief that trumps the interests

2870
04:09:34,720 --> 04:09:36,640
of the child in that moment.

2871
04:09:36,840 --> 04:09:38,140
Okay, so let's talk about reality.

2872
04:09:38,440 --> 04:09:42,280
Let's not talk about theoretical because I feel like you're reading this completely wrong.

2873
04:09:42,900 --> 04:09:47,120
I believe like you are reading into it an intent that does not even get close to existing.

2874
04:09:47,240 --> 04:09:51,940
So under what you're saying the way that this legislation is written, that if I want to

2875
04:09:51,940 --> 04:09:55,080
because of my religious beliefs, be to child, right?

2876
04:09:55,360 --> 04:09:57,820
That police officers can come and take a look

2877
04:09:57,820 --> 04:10:00,000
and investigate and I say, whoa, it's my

2878
04:10:00,000 --> 04:10:08,300
Or religious belief to be able to do that. And what you were saying is that this says, no, no, that's exactly what you said. No, it isn't. Yes, ma'am, it is. And that this legislation

2879
04:10:08,300 --> 04:10:16,220
would somehow protect me because I have blanketed myself with my religious belief. That is what your testimony, at least as I understand it has been. So correct me, how I'm wrong.

2880
04:10:16,480 --> 04:10:23,040
You said the spare the rod and all that kind of good stuff. Absolutely. Absolutely. That's exactly where that was my point. That's where you went.

2881
04:10:23,040 --> 04:10:29,180
I went to a place where child protective services, if they were able to investigate

2882
04:10:29,180 --> 04:10:33,980
every claim, might be very, very concerned about the behavior of a foster parent, a group home.

2883
04:10:34,200 --> 04:10:38,580
So now you're talking about child protective services not having adequate staff and

2884
04:10:38,580 --> 04:10:40,360
resources, which we've already addressed this session.

2885
04:10:40,440 --> 04:10:41,860
You're not talking about this legislatively.

2886
04:10:41,880 --> 04:10:48,880
Because we have asserted a privilege to the religious beliefs of the secondary agency

2887
04:10:48,880 --> 04:10:51,300
over the interests of the child.

2888
04:10:51,300 --> 04:10:55,500
I believe if you heard Representative Frank, the best interest of the child trumps all, correct?

2889
04:10:55,980 --> 04:11:00,560
So, I am not attributing intent to Representative Frank.

2890
04:11:01,140 --> 04:11:02,000
I am-

2891
04:11:02,000 --> 04:11:03,120
I'm saying intent, I'm saying legislation.

2892
04:11:04,600 --> 04:11:07,120
Best interest of the child trumps all the above.

2893
04:11:07,160 --> 04:11:09,000
That's the way I understand the legislation.

2894
04:11:09,300 --> 04:11:16,080
This legislation does not assert that the best interest of the child trump everything else.

2895
04:11:16,380 --> 04:11:20,460
Are you sure that not other statutes would address the best interest of the child as it relates to providers?

2896
04:11:20,460 --> 04:11:28,460
This legislation, not the sub, does not assert that the best interest of the child

2897
04:11:28,980 --> 04:11:33,680
outweigh the religious, the sincerely held religious beliefs of the secondary provider.

2898
04:11:33,880 --> 04:11:37,800
Okay, so if we could get, if there could be information shown to you, whether it's a corresponding

2899
04:11:37,800 --> 04:11:41,680
statute or as a committee sub, says best interest of the child, which is the way I understand

2900
04:11:41,680 --> 04:11:45,700
the legislation or related legislation, then you'd be okay with this bill.

2901
04:11:45,940 --> 04:11:46,100
No.

2902
04:11:46,780 --> 04:11:47,040
Okay.

2903
04:11:47,380 --> 04:11:48,860
But I was answering your questions.

2904
04:11:49,260 --> 04:11:49,480
Correct.

2905
04:11:49,480 --> 04:11:59,460
I think it's always wrong to use religion to allow discrimination on behalf of the state

2906
04:11:59,460 --> 04:12:00,660
that I live in.

2907
04:12:00,660 --> 04:12:02,520
And I respectfully disagree with your interpretation.

2908
04:12:02,860 --> 04:12:03,820
Thank you, ma'am.

2909
04:12:05,200 --> 04:12:06,100
I have kind of Rodriguez.

2910
04:12:06,400 --> 04:12:06,580
Thank you.

2911
04:12:08,220 --> 04:12:14,200
I think if you're looking at that section you're talking about, I mean, there's no doubt

2912
04:12:14,200 --> 04:12:21,180
that there is, to some degree, a carve-out, right, for religious, anything, you know,

2913
04:12:21,200 --> 04:12:24,100
when it comes to religious, strongly, religiously-health beliefs, that's essentially,

2914
04:12:24,100 --> 04:12:26,300
I think, is what you're saying, right?

2915
04:12:26,500 --> 04:12:30,020
So, it's not that the best interest of the child, and I hope we get somebody from the state

2916
04:12:30,020 --> 04:12:33,080
up here pretty soon, because I want to, and I know that that Representative Frank and

2917
04:12:33,080 --> 04:12:35,280
I had talked about this and others about what that is.

2918
04:12:36,860 --> 04:12:42,360
Good, good, but it seems to me that, basically, there's a carve-out on the lawsuit

2919
04:12:42,360 --> 04:12:47,760
suit side, right, for religious strongly, strong, what is it?

2920
04:12:48,480 --> 04:12:49,680
Sincerely held religious beliefs.

2921
04:12:50,380 --> 04:12:51,580
And I think that's what you're getting at.

2922
04:12:51,860 --> 04:12:57,360
Yes, well, and in that regard, whether it trumps the best center of the child or not,

2923
04:12:57,700 --> 04:13:02,400
at least there's a different category, right, for organizations that have these.

2924
04:13:03,360 --> 04:13:05,280
Absolutely, and I think that's what you were getting at.

2925
04:13:05,480 --> 04:13:10,040
Well, and I mean, the bill is pretty specific, again, I will try and find the exact line,

2926
04:13:10,040 --> 04:13:19,140
But it's near the end of the bill where it says this does not, Trump, or this would not

2927
04:13:19,140 --> 04:13:23,080
allow religion to be used to discriminate based on race, national origin, or ethnicity.

2928
04:13:23,720 --> 04:13:29,620
But it doesn't talk about sex, sexual orientation, gender identity, or religion.

2929
04:13:29,820 --> 04:13:34,260
I mean, it's clear that it's recognizing that, sincerely held religious beliefs

2930
04:13:34,260 --> 04:13:38,720
could be interpreted as trumping certain civil liberties, and it carves out special

2931
04:13:40,260 --> 04:14:07,040
I'm going back to what Chairman had said before, I think if we can try to figure out a way to make this better, I want to try to do that, obviously try to fix it as possible because I do believe we don't want, we want more or not less, and whatever we can do to help that along, I'd like to get there and work with the author of the bill, but do you think if we did add sexual orientation or religion to that list on page six that you were just mentioning,

2932
04:14:07,040 --> 04:14:08,320
with that help?

2933
04:14:08,840 --> 04:14:09,280
Certainly.

2934
04:14:09,720 --> 04:14:09,960
Okay.

2935
04:14:10,400 --> 04:14:14,100
I mean, I think the idea of recognizing

2936
04:14:14,100 --> 04:14:18,100
that the state needs religious providers

2937
04:14:18,100 --> 04:14:22,500
of child welfare services is totally right.

2938
04:14:23,420 --> 04:14:25,900
I do not disagree that the state needs those providers

2939
04:14:25,900 --> 04:14:30,040
and I absolutely do not take exception to being

2940
04:14:30,040 --> 04:14:31,640
accused of wanting less providers.

2941
04:14:31,640 --> 04:14:33,880
That is not what I am saying.

2942
04:14:33,880 --> 04:14:53,660
But I think it does a disservice to the state that I love, and it does a disservice to the children we're trying to serve, and it does a disservice to faith, to use religion or to allow religion to justify discrimination in the way that I believe it could be used if this bill were to pass.

2943
04:14:53,840 --> 04:14:54,320
Thank you.

2944
04:14:54,320 --> 04:14:59,820
Mr. Miller, the zero-organization-provied foster

2945
04:15:00,000 --> 04:15:29,920
No. So you're not, you're not provided. No. So, okay. You understand why that? I do. I understand why you ask the question. It's, it's, you know, we're trying to add, we're figuring out we need to figure out how to take care of kids who are in terrible situations. And you're not coming in here with any solutions for me. And then you're not providing the service. So I'm just saying. We're a civil liberties organization. I can't change that.

2946
04:15:29,920 --> 04:15:31,860
I do understand why you asked.

2947
04:15:32,200 --> 04:15:33,740
I'm trying to find positive solutions.

2948
04:15:33,880 --> 04:15:35,820
I tell you what we should do is we've got a,

2949
04:15:36,680 --> 04:15:39,760
we've got Bradley Star here from the Attorney General's Office.

2950
04:15:39,860 --> 04:15:40,800
Maybe we should have him come up.

2951
04:15:40,860 --> 04:15:41,840
Thank you, Ms. Miller, for your time.

2952
04:15:41,840 --> 04:15:42,520
Thank you very much.

2953
04:15:42,820 --> 04:15:43,100
Thank you very much.

2954
04:15:43,320 --> 04:15:46,920
Bradley Star, Deputy First Assistant Attorney General,

2955
04:15:47,140 --> 04:15:52,440
Attorney General's Office of Texas here is a neutral resource witness

2956
04:15:52,440 --> 04:15:55,220
and maybe Representative Meyer,

2957
04:15:56,380 --> 04:15:59,020
you may want to ask him some of the specific questions

2958
04:15:59,020 --> 04:16:04,360
that you just were asking men to go because he can give us a very fitting here.

2959
04:16:05,380 --> 04:16:07,400
Brownlee, so our attorney general's office here is a resource.

2960
04:16:07,880 --> 04:16:08,140
And

2961
04:16:11,050 --> 04:16:11,790
I'll ask you my question.

2962
04:16:12,290 --> 04:16:17,310
The best interest of the child, you just heard the exchange and the testimony in my response.

2963
04:16:17,310 --> 04:16:21,550
Can you walk me through that and how that would, what the status is over this legislation and

2964
04:16:21,550 --> 04:16:23,050
corresponding legislation as well?

2965
04:16:23,270 --> 04:16:24,210
Sure, two quick points.

2966
04:16:24,350 --> 04:16:28,570
It appears in two places, first in the preamble of the bill, and then at the back of the bill.

2967
04:16:28,570 --> 04:16:31,970
saying that nothing in this bill would affect the best interest of the child in work.

2968
04:16:32,170 --> 04:16:34,150
Is that 45.09H?

2969
04:16:34,370 --> 04:16:35,210
I believe that's right.

2970
04:16:35,570 --> 04:16:37,790
Maybe G, line page 6, line 21.

2971
04:16:38,030 --> 04:16:38,430
That's correct.

2972
04:16:38,690 --> 04:16:41,490
Okay, so that is in the statute, correct?

2973
04:16:41,770 --> 04:16:42,290
That's currently right.

2974
04:16:42,290 --> 04:16:43,630
It's already in the statute.

2975
04:16:43,810 --> 04:16:47,350
It would be in the new statute and two places if this bill becomes law.

2976
04:16:48,250 --> 04:16:48,790
Seconding is-

2977
04:16:48,790 --> 04:16:49,870
I don't know how ambiguity on that.

2978
04:16:50,190 --> 04:16:51,570
I don't believe so.

2979
04:16:51,670 --> 04:16:56,210
And I didn't read best interest of child to be displaced by the original layout of the

2980
04:16:56,210 --> 04:16:59,430
bill. But in the event that there's some question of interpretation, that should

2981
04:16:59,430 --> 04:17:02,530
be laid to rest with the two occurrences in the bill, where it's expressed now.

2982
04:17:02,690 --> 04:17:05,290
And I think we all would agree with that as well. I don't think you would see any disagree.

2983
04:17:05,390 --> 04:17:08,630
The best interest of the child should be the first and foremost fact.

2984
04:17:08,730 --> 04:17:12,010
And Texas Supreme Court has said that even in statutes in the family code where it's not

2985
04:17:12,010 --> 04:17:14,890
expressly in there, they've said the touchstone is the best interest of the child,

2986
04:17:15,050 --> 04:17:17,670
even in mediated settlement agreement statutes and things like that.

2987
04:17:17,750 --> 04:17:19,490
It's in here expressly in two different places.

2988
04:17:19,730 --> 04:17:23,910
Right, so the scenario that I laid out for the witness about, you know, clothing,

2989
04:17:23,910 --> 04:17:28,790
I mean, you know, liking myself and religious beliefs as I, you know, abuse a child that can't happen, correct?

2990
04:17:29,210 --> 04:17:31,630
It shouldn't happen, and this bill doesn't affect that.

2991
04:17:31,750 --> 04:17:34,990
But let's say that someone actually does abuse a child in the name of religion.

2992
04:17:35,210 --> 04:17:39,030
Nothing would stop CPS from coming in and taking custody of that child back.

2993
04:17:39,450 --> 04:17:42,830
Even in the very first establishment clause case that the U.S. Supreme Court had,

2994
04:17:43,250 --> 04:17:48,590
they said that free exercise and establishment clause doesn't allow a person to be cloaked

2995
04:17:48,590 --> 04:17:51,690
in this first amendment defense when they're harming another person.

2996
04:17:51,690 --> 04:17:55,250
And so the establishment clause for exercise calls have never gone that far.

2997
04:17:55,650 --> 04:17:58,530
This bill wouldn't go that far, otherwise it would be unconstitutional.

2998
04:17:58,670 --> 04:18:02,650
It simply doesn't prevent the department from stepping in if there's harm to somebody.

2999
04:18:03,250 --> 04:18:08,330
And really, what this is about is less about the, in the moment kind of situation of what's happening.

3000
04:18:08,330 --> 04:18:12,830
And really about a license to participate in the process, so to speak.

3001
04:18:13,070 --> 04:18:15,990
The example that you had earlier represented Rodriguez of vaccines.

3002
04:18:16,510 --> 04:18:20,710
We know that the department is the joint managing, well, is the managing conservator of the child.

3003
04:18:20,710 --> 04:18:25,630
The foster family helps, so the foster family won't actually drive the kid to get the vaccines.

3004
04:18:26,150 --> 04:18:27,570
The department is tasked with that duty.

3005
04:18:27,950 --> 04:18:34,870
This bill, what it would do is to prevent the department afterwards from saying we really didn't enjoy driving to the doctor's office for those vaccines.

3006
04:18:34,990 --> 04:18:36,990
You're out of the foster care program family.

3007
04:18:37,230 --> 04:18:38,690
That's what this bill really does.

3008
04:18:38,810 --> 04:18:45,330
It doesn't affect the department's freestanding existing obligation to provide medically necessary treatment for that child.

3009
04:18:45,550 --> 04:18:50,270
It just prevents the department from removing that family from participation in the program afterwards.

3010
04:18:50,270 --> 04:18:51,010
That makes sense.

3011
04:18:51,230 --> 04:18:51,750
Thank you very much.

3012
04:18:51,830 --> 04:18:52,090
Thank you.

3013
04:18:52,430 --> 04:18:58,170
And I also want to just clear up to, you know, you're speaking a sub has not been laid out.

3014
04:18:58,370 --> 04:19:02,510
So you're speaking on the subject of what would what it would look like.

3015
04:19:03,050 --> 04:19:03,210
Correct.

3016
04:19:03,910 --> 04:19:04,270
Understood.

3017
04:19:04,490 --> 04:19:08,350
And the Texas Supreme Court has read in best interest, even in statutes, where it's not expressed.

3018
04:19:09,170 --> 04:19:09,530
Okay.

3019
04:19:10,190 --> 04:19:10,550
Yes.

3020
04:19:10,690 --> 04:19:10,970
Go ahead.

3021
04:19:11,490 --> 04:19:12,510
I'm sorry if you said this.

3022
04:19:12,650 --> 04:19:12,850
I'm sorry.

3023
04:19:12,990 --> 04:19:13,350
I missed it.

3024
04:19:13,390 --> 04:19:18,950
But in statute where not in this bill, but somewhere in statute is best interest defined,

3025
04:19:18,950 --> 04:19:22,730
Even roughly, or is it defined in any specific way?

3026
04:19:22,830 --> 04:19:26,090
It's usually defined in the case law, not in the family case law, okay.

3027
04:19:27,270 --> 04:19:31,710
Okay, and then I hate to just keep bringing up this kind of subject, but say in the instance

3028
04:19:31,710 --> 04:19:35,570
of an abortion scenario, CPS is not obligated.

3029
04:19:35,730 --> 04:19:40,610
What's the situation there if you have a underage, I mean, to someone who's a 16 year old girl,

3030
04:19:40,810 --> 04:19:45,530
15 year old girl, whatever the case may be, and say it's medically necessary or deemed

3031
04:19:45,530 --> 04:19:47,570
to be medically necessary, let's not get into the other stuff.

3032
04:19:47,570 --> 04:19:50,990
So what's the, what's the course of action that you're, are you aware of?

3033
04:19:51,230 --> 04:19:52,810
It's CPS might, how would that work?

3034
04:19:52,850 --> 04:19:55,890
So the department, legally speaking, since the department is the Managing

3035
04:19:55,890 --> 04:19:59,530
Conservator of the Child, they are duty bound to provide medically necessary

3036
04:19:59,530 --> 04:19:59,990
retreatment.

3037
04:20:00,000 --> 04:20:28,080
If the family they're placed with cannot provide that treatment. And so if it's an elective abortion, and they big, they don't touch that or do that. I'm not sure how elective works. I'll have to defer to the department on that. So even if you had a situation where it was against a strongly held, sincerely held religious belief, if it's in the best interest of the child in the sense that it's medically necessary, then CPS would be obligated to. As the managing conservative, they would be obligated. Great. Thank you, sir.

3038
04:20:29,100 --> 04:20:35,480
This star, some have said that this bill is a license to discriminate, would you speak to that issue?

3039
04:20:36,520 --> 04:20:41,640
Legally, I view it as a status quo bill, those that are participating now can still continue to do so.

3040
04:20:41,880 --> 04:20:44,820
I would view it as having two tweaks to the current status quo.

3041
04:20:45,160 --> 04:20:47,860
One, it's a shield from lawsuits that may happen in the future.

3042
04:20:48,060 --> 04:20:53,860
But that shield is only given because of something that faith-based entities are now giving up that they don't currently have.

3043
04:20:53,860 --> 04:20:57,700
And that is the duty to have some sort of recuse and refer process.

3044
04:20:58,360 --> 04:21:01,680
And so they can't just say, no, we won't help you and hang up the phone.

3045
04:21:01,940 --> 04:21:05,580
The statute would record me to say, well, the DFPS can help you.

3046
04:21:05,760 --> 04:21:07,440
Or we know of another organization that can.

3047
04:21:07,900 --> 04:21:12,960
And so they get that benefit of protection from lawsuits in exchange for no longer just hanging up the phone and

3048
04:21:12,960 --> 04:21:14,920
saying, no, they have some obligation to help.

3049
04:21:15,620 --> 04:21:15,880
Okay.

3050
04:21:16,360 --> 04:21:16,620
Yes.

3051
04:21:17,860 --> 04:21:20,860
Thank you for being here. It's kind of going back to the protection.

3052
04:21:21,100 --> 04:21:26,920
Speak to the Religious Freedom Information Act, and does it, do we have protection

3053
04:21:26,920 --> 04:21:28,480
in there? Does that cover it? What is?

3054
04:21:29,000 --> 04:21:32,140
There is some vague protection in the Religious Freedom Restoration Act.

3055
04:21:32,280 --> 04:21:35,940
That came about because it was sort of the one sentence that the U.S. Supreme Court used

3056
04:21:35,940 --> 04:21:40,300
to refer to its constitutional standard. They departed from it, and then the U.S. Congress

3057
04:21:40,300 --> 04:21:42,760
said, we're going back to the old standard, we like it better.

3058
04:21:42,760 --> 04:21:47,640
It has to determine three different things, whether government interest is compelling,

3059
04:21:48,080 --> 04:21:52,020
whether it's the least restrictive means and whether it substantially burdens religion.

3060
04:21:52,400 --> 04:21:53,980
That's a pretty fact intensive inquiry.

3061
04:21:54,300 --> 04:21:58,760
And so we see these refer cases take one, two years to resolve in the trial court.

3062
04:21:59,180 --> 04:22:03,840
For a judge to really understand what all those three factors mean given a particular case.

3063
04:22:04,240 --> 04:22:08,400
And at the end, parties can have substantial legal costs after a refer case is played out.

3064
04:22:08,540 --> 04:22:11,460
And there's little certainty in predicting how those cases will result.

3065
04:22:11,460 --> 04:22:24,060
This is a clear statute, sort of like the Pastor Protection Act from last session, where this body said we know there's a clear case, so in this situation there shouldn't be a lawsuit, and then the lawsuit should last 30 to 60 days rather than a year or two.

3066
04:22:27,310 --> 04:22:28,890
Members, do we have any other questions?

3067
04:22:29,770 --> 04:22:30,970
Or star? Okay, thank you.

3068
04:22:30,970 --> 04:22:31,350
Thank you, Chair.

3069
04:22:31,530 --> 04:22:32,330
Thank you for your testimony.

3070
04:22:39,820 --> 04:22:46,460
Members, we're handing out a copy of this, so we can see what it looks like that we're not going to lay it out.

3071
04:22:48,140 --> 04:22:49,260
Okay, who's next?

3072
04:22:55,700 --> 04:23:03,460
Gus Reyes, Christian Live Commission, Texas Baptist here representing Anne himself.

3073
04:23:03,780 --> 04:23:04,880
Here's Speak Poe the Bill,

3074
04:23:11,490 --> 04:23:12,490
Dr. Gus, how are you?

3075
04:23:12,870 --> 04:23:14,690
Good to see you, Mr. Chair.

3076
04:23:15,550 --> 04:23:23,610
My name is Gus Reyes, and I do represent the Christian Live Commission, and I am speaking in support of HB 3859, I also represent myself.

3077
04:23:24,670 --> 04:23:29,710
The Christian Live Commission is the Ethics and Justice Ministry of the Baptist General Convention of Texas.

3078
04:23:29,890 --> 04:23:36,950
Established in 1950, we work with Texas Baptists to bring a biblical perspective of current cultural and public policy issues.

3079
04:23:38,190 --> 04:23:49,890
I am also, my wife and I also went through the Texas Foster program to foster two sons and that we eventually adopt it.

3080
04:23:49,890 --> 04:23:53,970
So they want to point out that I do speak from some experience in the subject.

3081
04:23:54,770 --> 04:24:02,130
In Texas, faith based child placing agencies account for about 25% of our state capacity place children with loving families.

3082
04:24:02,730 --> 04:24:09,970
We place in care for foster children and orphans out of the biblical commandment of James 127 to look after orphans.

3083
04:24:10,390 --> 04:24:14,850
Governor Abbott, First Lady Abbott and Commissioner Hank Whitman have made working with churches and

3084
04:24:14,850 --> 04:24:20,430
faith-based groups to recruit foster families a central piece of their efforts to improve capacity.

3085
04:24:20,770 --> 04:24:26,890
This bill maximizes the number of homes available for fostered children and we're very thankful for that.

3086
04:24:27,510 --> 04:24:40,530
It's a license to participate for faith-based adoption and foster care providers that have served the disadvantaged children of Texas for decades and have a proven track record of serving the best interest of children.

3087
04:24:40,530 --> 04:24:45,990
The state legislature, legislative intent of the bill is to ensure that there is a diverse and

3088
04:24:45,990 --> 04:24:48,170
broad range of foster care providers.

3089
04:24:48,610 --> 04:24:54,750
To be clear, HB 3859 would not apply to those who receive contracts of service single source continuum.

3090
04:24:55,170 --> 04:24:56,670
Contractors, I believe, has been referenced.

3091
04:24:57,710 --> 04:24:59,950
We believe it is possible to respect since-

3092
04:25:04,840 --> 04:25:28,680
Section 405.009 makes it absolutely clear that providers may not deprive a minor of the rights guaranteed in that children's bill of rights set by the Texas Framie Code. The best interest of the child, legal standard, already includes religious matching, placing Baptist kids with Baptist parents were possible. Nothing in this bill prohibits DFPS or the SSCC from prioritizing the best interest of the child

3093
04:25:28,680 --> 04:25:30,460
in making placement decisions.

3094
04:25:30,780 --> 04:25:35,240
This would include selecting placement in which a religious identity of the child is respected.

3095
04:25:35,840 --> 04:25:43,400
Section 45.009G, paragraph G, addresses this issue by requiring compliance with medical care,

3096
04:25:43,880 --> 04:25:46,940
vaccines, and preventing the use of corporal punishment.

3097
04:25:47,320 --> 04:25:53,120
It is possible for those who do not wish to work with faith-based agencies to find other providers

3098
04:25:53,120 --> 04:25:54,780
or work directly with the state.

3099
04:25:54,780 --> 04:26:00,580
This means no one who meets the date qualifications will be denied the opportunity to foster or adopt children.

3100
04:26:01,100 --> 04:26:09,920
Texas Department of Family Predictive Services is managing conservator and foster cases with a continuing obligation to serve the best interest of the child.

3101
04:26:10,880 --> 04:26:19,060
HB 30, A59 ensures a diversity of providers to ensure that all children have every chance to end up in permanent loving families.

3102
04:26:19,060 --> 04:26:23,180
We thank you for the work that you're doing here and we commit our prayers to you.

3103
04:26:23,540 --> 04:26:28,160
That God will give you wisdom and guidance as you make further decisions as you move forward.

3104
04:26:28,560 --> 04:26:28,880
Thank you.

3105
04:26:29,140 --> 04:26:29,400
Thank you.

3106
04:26:29,460 --> 04:26:29,780
Thank you.

3107
04:26:29,780 --> 04:26:30,520
We appreciate it.

3108
04:26:30,600 --> 04:26:32,400
Members, do we have any questions?

3109
04:26:33,600 --> 04:26:35,680
Thank you very much for being here and to test for me.

3110
04:26:36,200 --> 04:26:41,080
Jennifer Almond, Texas Catholic Conference of Bishops here to speak for the bill.

3111
04:26:46,880 --> 04:26:48,160
Good afternoon, chairman and members.

3112
04:26:48,320 --> 04:26:51,920
My name is Jennifer Almond and I'm the executive director of a Texas Catholic Conference of Bishops.

3113
04:26:51,920 --> 04:26:57,680
testifying in support of HB 3859 as an essential component to foster care reform.

3114
04:26:57,960 --> 04:27:03,500
Since 1727, Catholic religious orders and charities have provided orphaned ministries in the United States.

3115
04:27:03,920 --> 04:27:10,880
Shortly after the Louisiana Purchase Thomas Jefferson sent the Urson Sisters of New Orleans a donation to continue their charitable mission,

3116
04:27:11,380 --> 04:27:18,600
serving orphans as Catholic sisters, assuring them in a handwritten letter of their protection of religious liberty to serve orphans,

3117
04:27:18,600 --> 04:27:23,720
despite the fact that they were no longer in Catholic France, but in the new United States.

3118
04:27:24,140 --> 04:27:28,840
Public support and appreciation for religiously-based charities has continued to this day.

3119
04:27:29,960 --> 04:27:35,460
The Sisters of Charity, the Incarnate Word, began serving orphans in San Antonio and Galveston in 1866.

3120
04:27:36,080 --> 04:27:42,140
For over 150 years, our adoption and foster care services have been an integral part of the child welfare system in Texas.

3121
04:27:43,000 --> 04:27:47,320
Yet in recent years, public-private partnerships have eroded significantly because of

3122
04:27:47,320 --> 04:27:51,240
of conflicts between the perceived rights of individuals and the church's conscientious

3123
04:27:51,240 --> 04:27:54,160
choice to provide services only in accord with church teaching.

3124
04:27:54,560 --> 04:27:58,500
We have experienced a slow motion weakening of our First Amendment right to freedom of

3125
04:27:58,500 --> 04:28:03,440
religion that seeks to reduce religious freedom to the freedom to attend mass and pray rather

3126
04:28:03,440 --> 04:28:08,080
than the freedom to act on our gospel command to serve Christ, present in the refugee, or

3127
04:28:08,080 --> 04:28:08,820
the foster child.

3128
04:28:09,360 --> 04:28:13,640
Strategies that rely on faith-based recruitment of foster families leverage our deep community

3129
04:28:13,640 --> 04:28:16,480
relationships and mission-based commitment to the care of children.

3130
04:28:17,100 --> 04:28:21,000
Catholic charities and the Catholic bishops are the best equipped to recruit families

3131
04:28:21,000 --> 04:28:25,960
from the 8.4 million Catholic Texans who sit in our parish puse weekly.

3132
04:28:26,520 --> 04:28:29,580
This is why we have been strong partners in foster parent recruitment.

3133
04:28:30,680 --> 04:28:34,680
However, based on our experiences as targets of litigation for faithful

3134
04:28:34,680 --> 04:28:38,300
adherents to religious beliefs, we know that the public-private partnership

3135
04:28:38,300 --> 04:28:42,400
will not be successful without conscience protections provided by this bill.

3136
04:28:42,400 --> 04:28:46,760
It would be tragic if the reform sought this session did not ensure that we can provide

3137
04:28:46,760 --> 04:28:51,600
foster services in accordance with the very values that make our assistance so essential

3138
04:28:51,600 --> 04:28:52,820
to the success of reform.

3139
04:28:53,300 --> 04:28:57,300
The bishops believe that it does not serve the common good to treat the good works of religious

3140
04:28:57,300 --> 04:29:01,860
believers and the church as if they are a threat to our common life and the common good.

3141
04:29:02,300 --> 04:29:07,280
To the contrary, our good works are a contribute to the proper functioning of society.

3142
04:29:07,280 --> 04:29:11,640
The Catholic Church is responsible for an impressive array of hospitals, clinics,

3143
04:29:11,860 --> 04:29:16,220
universities, schools, adoption agencies, development projects, and charities that provide

3144
04:29:16,220 --> 04:29:20,000
assistance to the poor, the hungry, immigrants, and those faced with crisis pregnancies.

3145
04:29:20,660 --> 04:29:25,480
We do the work that the gospel mandates that we do, yet too often today we are forced to

3146
04:29:25,480 --> 04:29:30,000
choose between the good works we do by faith and fidelity to that faith itself.

3147
04:29:30,640 --> 04:29:35,800
The children in Texas and the child welfare system deserve the very best we have to offer,

3148
04:29:35,800 --> 04:29:40,580
Yet, without conscience protection, it is the children and families in crisis who suffer.

3149
04:29:41,140 --> 04:29:44,820
You've had witnesses talk about an idea of bringing together all the religious groups to

3150
04:29:44,820 --> 04:29:49,260
have a grand discussion and negotiation to agree on sincerely held religious beliefs.

3151
04:29:49,620 --> 04:29:51,940
And I would submit to you that that's probably not possible.

3152
04:29:52,060 --> 04:29:55,040
That's why we have diverse religious groups in Texas.

3153
04:29:55,460 --> 04:29:59,760
This bill seeks to allow each of us to do our role in what we do best.

3154
04:30:00,000 --> 04:30:29,800
Without stopping other people from being at the table with us, doing what they do best. And that's why we so strongly support the bill. I'm happy to answer any questions. I've been a couple that have come up about litigation. We have been the target of litigation repeatedly on this topic. That was. Go ahead, you answered my question before I asked it. So how many times will have you in fact been? Yes, Catholic charity has been sued through and I throughout the United States, multiple times and here in Texas,

3155
04:30:29,800 --> 04:30:36,020
as well. Primarily, we are sued by civil liberties groups who are, as Chairman Cook pointed out, not involved in providing social justice.

3156
04:30:36,020 --> 04:30:46,520
As it pertains to foster care specifically, and we have been, had grants where we scored a 98 out of 100 point scale, and the next provider scored a 56.

3157
04:30:47,320 --> 04:30:52,520
The grant was given to the next provider because of our refusal to facilitate access to abortion.

3158
04:30:53,140 --> 04:30:59,200
And so we have, we have those adverse actions and why it's so broad relates to our real experiences.

3159
04:30:59,200 --> 04:31:04,120
is Catholic Charities in Texas is currently closed or suspended almost all of our foster

3160
04:31:04,120 --> 04:31:04,780
care programs.

3161
04:31:05,420 --> 04:31:09,160
And let me tell you members, you see me in this committee a lot, a lot of issues, but

3162
04:31:09,160 --> 04:31:16,160
it breaks my heart and it breaks the heart of the Catholic bishops of Texas to end 166 years

3163
04:31:16,620 --> 04:31:21,020
of orphan ministry because of continued litigation on the issue.

3164
04:31:21,200 --> 04:31:25,880
And the very painful and difficult decision our Catholic Charities CEOs make on a regular

3165
04:31:25,880 --> 04:31:36,180
basis to assess our stewardship of our resources and say, rather than spending money defending this litigation, we can instead provide more services to immigrants where we're not sued.

3166
04:31:36,540 --> 04:31:45,060
We continue the foster care programs and Catholic cherries that will continue to remain open in Texas today are primarily refugee-based because refugees don't sue us.

3167
04:31:45,800 --> 04:31:50,500
Are you able to provide this committee with some information or data on lawsuits?

3168
04:31:51,080 --> 04:31:58,220
Yeah, I mean, you can do a Google search of ACLU soos the Catholic bishops, and there will be two or three pages worth of data and information about them.

3169
04:31:58,240 --> 04:31:59,440
Would you be able to help us with that?

3170
04:31:59,780 --> 04:32:07,780
Yeah, I can provide you a specific lawsuit that's currently going on for our refusal to provide access to abortion to trafficked children.

3171
04:32:08,200 --> 04:32:08,660
Thank you.

3172
04:32:09,080 --> 04:32:13,580
So Buckner was, I had like 400 kids currently in the hospital.

3173
04:32:14,060 --> 04:32:18,900
What's your sense of snack, as I'm hearing that your sense is going.

3174
04:32:19,800 --> 04:32:26,300
Let me ask you a question, if we pass this legislation that gives you protection,

3175
04:32:26,820 --> 04:32:37,160
do you think the Catholic conference would accelerate this program, bring more kids in?

3176
04:32:38,280 --> 04:32:39,120
What do you think will happen?

3177
04:32:39,180 --> 04:32:41,720
Yeah, I think that's exactly why this legislation is so essential.

3178
04:32:41,880 --> 04:32:46,420
The programs that we have operated for so long have closed over the span of the last four years.

3179
04:32:46,420 --> 04:32:48,980
And so some of them closed as recently as July.

3180
04:32:49,520 --> 04:32:52,880
And so the staff are still around and we could reopen that program.

3181
04:32:53,420 --> 04:32:57,760
And the program I'm seeking specifically is Catholic Charities Bearch Diocese of San Antonio.

3182
04:32:58,380 --> 04:33:01,860
They would like to reopen their DFPS based foster care program, but

3183
04:33:01,860 --> 04:33:05,180
they chose to close it in July because of a lack of conscience protections.

3184
04:33:05,420 --> 04:33:10,220
Their CEO has assured me with the passage of this bill he will look to reopen that program and

3185
04:33:10,220 --> 04:33:13,040
reinstitute the program if protections are in place.

3186
04:33:13,040 --> 04:33:18,280
You'll hear from a witness later from Catholic Charities in Central Texas, who will speak to the very same issues.

3187
04:33:18,480 --> 04:33:25,620
So this is a very real and critical issue for the ministry we have historically provided because it is gospel mandated.

3188
04:33:26,080 --> 04:33:29,440
It's kind of like in the prison system, we have a gospel mandate to care for the prisoner.

3189
04:33:29,800 --> 04:33:33,080
If TDCJ won't let us in the door, we can't fulfill our gospel mandate.

3190
04:33:33,360 --> 04:33:34,780
It's the same in the foster care system.

3191
04:33:34,780 --> 04:33:36,880
We have a gospel mandate to care for the orphan.

3192
04:33:37,000 --> 04:33:38,640
You heard it in James 127.

3193
04:33:38,640 --> 04:33:44,380
But if the state of Texas won't allow us to fulfill that mandate within the confines of our faith,

3194
04:33:44,860 --> 04:33:48,480
then our free exercise of religion is upheld, is not upheld.

3195
04:33:48,800 --> 04:33:51,420
And that's why this bill is so critically important for us.

3196
04:33:51,580 --> 04:33:53,900
And we're not theoretically talking about this.

3197
04:33:54,040 --> 04:33:58,240
This is the very real and lived experience of Catholic ministries throughout the state of Texas.

3198
04:33:58,840 --> 04:33:59,480
How are you good?

3199
04:33:59,660 --> 04:34:00,540
Yes,感谢 Madam.

3200
04:34:01,100 --> 04:34:05,540
Thank you for being here, Jennifer, as always, and maybe the other witness.

3201
04:34:05,540 --> 04:34:13,800
Yes, but in terms of number and scope of the mission and the work you were doing in San Antonio prior to closure, can you give us a, I don't know if you have that information.

3202
04:34:14,100 --> 04:34:17,920
I don't have it with me today, but I'll give you a rough example from some of our Catholic Church.

3203
04:34:17,980 --> 04:34:21,480
There's about 12 or 13 Catholic Church's locations throughout the state of Texas.

3204
04:34:21,660 --> 04:34:31,300
Their budgets range in size from $4 million to $40 million. Their services range in size to 30,000 people annually to 200,000 people annually.

3205
04:34:31,300 --> 04:34:34,100
And so when the Catholic Church engages in a ministry,

3206
04:34:34,100 --> 04:34:36,200
it's particularly one like this that is so

3207
04:34:36,200 --> 04:34:37,960
missional for us and so foundational,

3208
04:34:38,400 --> 04:34:39,600
we reach large numbers.

3209
04:34:39,860 --> 04:34:43,040
I referenced in my testimony, there's 8.4 million Catholics in Texas.

3210
04:34:43,200 --> 04:34:46,680
So when you're looking at a lack of families involved in the system,

3211
04:34:46,920 --> 04:34:49,260
we are excellent at recruiting those families.

3212
04:34:49,460 --> 04:34:52,780
And in the Human Services Committee on a similar topic,

3213
04:34:53,220 --> 04:34:55,520
a witness shared that there were children in the Fort Worth area

3214
04:34:55,520 --> 04:34:59,560
continuing to sleep in offices until Catholic Charities Fortworth found out about it

3215
04:34:59,560 --> 04:34:59,940
and immediately...

3216
04:35:00,000 --> 04:35:29,540
We recently got all of those children placed in homes. When we see a crisis, we have the capacity to act swiftly to be a part of a solution. We simply ask that we be able to remain who we are and faithful in being a part of that solution. And we don't seek to do it in isolation. We work in partnership with interfaith ministries throughout the state of Texas, whether people are Christian, Baptist, Catholic, Methodist, Buddhist, Lutheran, I mean, you name it. We are not trying to exclude anybody from being engaged, simply asking for the respect that we play the role

3217
04:35:29,540 --> 04:35:30,640
that we seek to play.

3218
04:35:31,000 --> 04:35:32,980
And quickly, just one other question, Mr. Chairman,

3219
04:35:33,060 --> 04:35:34,480
just falling up on the Chairman's question.

3220
04:35:34,660 --> 04:35:36,500
This is not, again, using a word of use,

3221
04:35:36,560 --> 04:35:37,340
or it's not theoretical.

3222
04:35:37,840 --> 04:35:40,520
You will, in fact, if this legislation becomes law

3223
04:35:40,520 --> 04:35:43,640
and the governor signs it, you believe,

3224
04:35:44,040 --> 04:35:45,300
and we'll hopefully get factually

3225
04:35:45,300 --> 04:35:47,080
that Texas Catholic Conference of Bishop's will,

3226
04:35:47,200 --> 04:35:50,400
again, open up more, broaden your services,

3227
04:35:50,660 --> 04:35:52,440
broaden your mission, take more kids.

3228
04:35:52,700 --> 04:35:54,300
I mean, that is your testimony here today.

3229
04:35:54,500 --> 04:35:56,300
The intention of the Catholic Bishop's

3230
04:35:56,300 --> 04:35:58,740
is to reassess the ability of our agencies

3231
04:35:58,740 --> 04:35:59,920
agencies to reopen programs.

3232
04:35:59,980 --> 04:36:04,620
There are 13 programs across the state, so what each individual program does, I can't

3233
04:36:04,620 --> 04:36:07,960
speak to, except for I know San Antonio is very interested in reopening.

3234
04:36:08,160 --> 04:36:09,620
I know Austin is going to speak in a little bit.

3235
04:36:10,020 --> 04:36:12,720
Each program will look at the local community and assess their role.

3236
04:36:13,160 --> 04:36:16,660
A good example is Bishop Michael Siss, the Bishop of the San Angelo diocese, which includes

3237
04:36:16,660 --> 04:36:19,120
Midland Odessa, Abelian, a very wide area.

3238
04:36:19,340 --> 04:36:21,980
Has been issuing letters encouraging people to engage.

3239
04:36:22,720 --> 04:36:28,000
People are coming to us from foster care agencies in the Midland area saying, how can you help

3240
04:36:28,000 --> 04:36:31,980
and Bishop's responses, I want to help, I want to engage.

3241
04:36:32,920 --> 04:36:40,060
And so we really, we are here asking to continue to be a part of the solution as we have since 1727.

3242
04:36:40,260 --> 04:36:40,980
Very good, thank you, too.

3243
04:36:41,360 --> 04:36:42,860
Thank you, members, any other questions?

3244
04:36:43,460 --> 04:36:45,360
Okay, thank you, gentlemen.

3245
04:36:45,760 --> 04:36:51,120
Sarah Ramirez, Catholic Dice of Austin, here to speak for the bill.

3246
04:36:55,930 --> 04:37:01,810
Chairman Cook, members of the committee, thank you for the opportunity to share the truth about the impact of

3247
04:37:01,810 --> 04:37:03,290
House Bill 3859.

3248
04:37:03,710 --> 04:37:04,810
I'm Sarah Ramirez.

3249
04:37:05,070 --> 04:37:06,830
I represent the diocese of Austin,

3250
04:37:07,090 --> 04:37:09,490
and I'm here in favor of House Bill 39.

3251
04:37:09,790 --> 04:37:10,050
Thank you.

3252
04:37:10,470 --> 04:37:13,770
I also have the privilege to serve as the executive director

3253
04:37:13,770 --> 04:37:15,670
for Catholic Charities of Central Texas.

3254
04:37:16,410 --> 04:37:17,950
Prior to being hired in Austin,

3255
04:37:18,310 --> 04:37:20,790
I served as the director of child welfare services

3256
04:37:21,200 --> 04:37:23,410
for Catholic Charities in Fort Worth, Texas.

3257
04:37:24,050 --> 04:37:27,710
Oversing both emergency shelter and foster care services.

3258
04:37:28,390 --> 04:37:40,510
Catholic Charity's essential Texas is a $4 million faith-based nonprofit with five innovative programs designed to combat poverty, and we work to keep families together and safe.

3259
04:37:40,990 --> 04:37:45,250
Annually, we serve over 14,000 individuals, yes, sir.

3260
04:37:45,350 --> 04:37:49,790
Thank you, reference the wrong bill number you're supporting is 3859.

3261
04:37:50,090 --> 04:37:50,470
Yes, sir.

3262
04:37:50,610 --> 04:37:52,130
Yes, sir, sorry about that.

3263
04:37:52,130 --> 04:38:00,590
But we serve over 14,000 individuals annually throughout our 25 county service region, most

3264
04:38:00,590 --> 04:38:04,210
of whom are the working poor, and some are even Catholic.

3265
04:38:04,930 --> 04:38:09,270
Today, I am here to ask for your support in passing of the Freedom to Serve Children

3266
04:38:09,270 --> 04:38:15,270
Act so that the faith-based organizations can continue to serve or re-engage in the opportunity

3267
04:38:15,270 --> 04:38:20,870
to serve children who otherwise have little hope for a brighter future without compromising

3268
04:38:20,870 --> 04:38:22,690
the values of faith-based nonprofits.

3269
04:38:23,590 --> 04:38:31,070
I believe that House Bill 3859 is a both-and, not an either-or, opportunity to address the

3270
04:38:31,070 --> 04:38:32,470
current foster care crisis.

3271
04:38:33,090 --> 04:38:39,110
By allowing faith-based nonprofits the opportunity to live out our faith and service delivery, this

3272
04:38:39,110 --> 04:38:44,990
bill will ensure that there is a diverse and wide range of foster care providers, ultimately

3273
04:38:44,990 --> 04:38:48,730
maximizing the number of homes available to foster care children.

3274
04:38:49,350 --> 04:38:56,570
Catholic Charities of Central Texas has been in the foster care and adoption provider in

3275
04:38:56,570 --> 04:39:01,690
the past, and we are willing to reengage in assessing how we can help in the current

3276
04:39:01,690 --> 04:39:10,350
crisis, but only if we are assured the passage of House Bill 3859 in accordance so that

3277
04:39:10,350 --> 04:39:14,950
we can act in accordance with our sincerely held religious belief, the very beliefs that

3278
04:39:14,950 --> 04:39:19,910
create a sense of trust in our work. When I commit to this, I know exactly what that

3279
04:39:19,910 --> 04:39:24,550
entails based on my previous work in Fort Worth and I'm committed to seeing it through.

3280
04:39:25,390 --> 04:39:31,090
If this bill passes, Catholic Charities Essential Texas stands ready to encourage our parishioners

3281
04:39:31,090 --> 04:39:38,010
and over 144 parishes of the diocese of Austin to discern becoming foster parents. Just

3282
04:39:38,010 --> 04:39:44,730
Just imagine if we could recruit three foster families from each parish every single year,

3283
04:39:44,870 --> 04:39:47,950
what kind of impact that would make in our global community.

3284
04:39:48,590 --> 04:39:50,730
Thank you and I'm happy to take any questions.

3285
04:39:51,290 --> 04:39:52,370
Members, any questions?

3286
04:39:53,250 --> 04:39:55,410
No questions, thank you for getting your testimony.

3287
04:39:56,010 --> 04:39:59,990
Chuck Smith, a quality text is here to-

3288
04:40:00,000 --> 04:40:01,140
We speak against the bill.

3289
04:40:03,600 --> 04:40:08,520
We show Mr. Smith against the bill not testifying.

3290
04:40:12,730 --> 04:40:19,030
Aaron Smith, adoption advocates and self here to speak against the bill.

3291
04:40:21,630 --> 04:40:29,650
Hi, my name is Aaron Smith. I am speaking on behalf of adoption advocates and myself, and I oppose House Bill 3859.

3292
04:40:30,330 --> 04:40:35,510
I'm the Director of Adoption Services at Adoption Advocates, the Private Domestic Infant Adoption Agency here in Austin.

3293
04:40:35,510 --> 04:40:38,930
I've worked in the field of adoption for eight years primarily with birth parents.

3294
04:40:39,210 --> 04:40:40,150
I'm also an adoptee.

3295
04:40:40,490 --> 04:40:43,570
I was adopted from an orphanage in Carola, India when I was 20 months old.

3296
04:40:44,350 --> 04:40:46,230
At adoption advocates, we promote open adoption.

3297
04:40:46,710 --> 04:40:49,590
This means the birth parents are encouraged to choose the adoptive families with whom they

3298
04:40:49,590 --> 04:40:53,670
place, can get to know the families during the pregnancy, and maintain in-person contact

3299
04:40:53,670 --> 04:40:55,390
with families and their child after placement.

3300
04:40:55,810 --> 04:40:58,110
We have placed with same-sex couples for over a decade.

3301
04:40:58,650 --> 04:41:03,170
We prepare all of our families for the adoption process and supervise all our families' placements

3302
04:41:04,210 --> 04:41:08,010
because regardless of sexual orientation, our families are equal in our eyes.

3303
04:41:08,690 --> 04:41:12,350
Some of the birth parents, however, see an added benefit in placing with LGBTQ families.

3304
04:41:12,870 --> 04:41:17,270
We often have birth parents contact the agency specifically because they have heard that we place the same sex couples.

3305
04:41:17,930 --> 04:41:24,650
Don't take it from me. I took the liberty of reaching out to a few of the birth parents I have worked with who have chosen to place their children in the home of an LGBTQ family.

3306
04:41:24,970 --> 04:41:25,950
Here's what they've had to say.

3307
04:41:26,750 --> 04:41:27,570
We had a few reasons.

3308
04:41:27,570 --> 04:41:32,850
The first that really hit my heart was that same-sex couples were very much discriminated against in the adoption process.

3309
04:41:33,350 --> 04:41:37,930
Another factor was that we knew that almost by default they would have faced adversity and

3310
04:41:37,930 --> 04:41:39,790
at least to some extent triumphed over it.

3311
04:41:40,130 --> 04:41:45,170
The final thing that weighed into our thought process is that my husband and I both identify as somewhere on the LGBT spectrum.

3312
04:41:45,610 --> 04:41:48,990
And most of us have a tendency to seek out those who are somewhat like us to parent our children.

3313
04:41:49,550 --> 04:41:53,370
We know LGBT families are at least as good as parenting as their heterosis counterparts.

3314
04:41:53,370 --> 04:41:58,210
parts. Another birth mom said, I feel that being a part of the LGBT community that a

3315
04:41:58,210 --> 04:42:02,750
same-sex couple would better understand a possible gay or bisexual child. I feel confident

3316
04:42:02,750 --> 04:42:06,610
that the adoptive fathers of my son will raise him with love and an open mind. And

3317
04:42:06,610 --> 04:42:10,390
a third birth mother said, I did not choose the same-sex couple because they were both women.

3318
04:42:10,910 --> 04:42:14,390
I chose a same-sex couple to raise my child because they have endless love to give her.

3319
04:42:14,750 --> 04:42:18,490
I chose them because I knew they would protect her heart, nourish her spirit and raise her

3320
04:42:18,490 --> 04:42:22,530
to be kind. This bill does not serve the best interests of children. It further puts them

3321
04:42:22,530 --> 04:42:27,130
I'm not a disadvantage by limiting the number of potential loving and support of homes and to which they could be placed.

3322
04:42:27,490 --> 04:42:30,390
I can never support a bill that would legalize this discrimination.

3323
04:42:33,800 --> 04:42:36,780
There's nothing in this bill that states that.

3324
04:42:37,180 --> 04:42:37,660
So I hope-

3325
04:42:37,660 --> 04:42:40,880
They can't, they can refuse to train families.

3326
04:42:41,400 --> 04:42:48,020
I mean, you are, you are just reading this bill, you know, what this bill does is allow for

3327
04:42:48,020 --> 04:42:51,040
faith-based groups to also be part of the process.

3328
04:42:51,040 --> 04:42:54,280
It doesn't exclude the community that you're concerned about.

3329
04:42:54,640 --> 04:43:01,240
It was my understanding that it allowed them to not train LGBT families.

3330
04:43:01,460 --> 04:43:02,920
Is that not correct?

3331
04:43:05,730 --> 04:43:10,650
You know, I'm more than glad to pull somebody up there that can answer that question.

3332
04:43:10,750 --> 04:43:10,910
Okay.

3333
04:43:13,370 --> 04:43:14,110
Matter of fact,

3334
04:43:15,110 --> 04:43:18,690
Bradley, will you come back up here, please?

3335
04:43:19,470 --> 04:43:23,410
You should have left when you had the chance, you've been a whole lot better all.

3336
04:43:27,380 --> 04:43:32,720
Randomly star the first assistant attorney general from Attorney General's Office.

3337
04:43:33,280 --> 04:43:34,840
Can you answer that question for me?

3338
04:43:34,860 --> 04:43:37,520
The question is, can someone refuse on their sincere help?

3339
04:43:37,680 --> 04:43:38,660
Well, first of all, let's go ahead and get your name right.

3340
04:43:38,660 --> 04:43:42,820
Randomly star, Deputy First Assistant, AG's office here as a resource witness on the bill.

3341
04:43:43,100 --> 04:43:43,240
Yes.

3342
04:43:45,060 --> 04:43:48,840
So, mentioning earlier testimony, it goes back and locks in the status quo.

3343
04:43:48,840 --> 04:44:01,680
So, if there's someone who has a sincerely held religious belief, and they can't refuse to accommodate that belief in the department, this bill clarifies that they can't be kicked out a participation in the program, but there's always a backup.

3344
04:44:01,940 --> 04:44:11,120
There's always a backup that the department makes sure is in place if the organization who's had those sincerely held religious beliefs doesn't know the backup already.

3345
04:44:11,120 --> 04:44:13,120
So there's always a backup in place.

3346
04:44:13,720 --> 04:44:18,860
So it does nothing more than log the status quo in and prevent these 25% of our agencies

3347
04:44:18,860 --> 04:44:22,020
who are faith-based from getting kicked out of the program by the department.

3348
04:44:24,080 --> 04:44:34,360
So if say that one of the faith-based groups wouldn't accept a placement, then what do they

3349
04:44:34,360 --> 04:44:34,860
have to do?

3350
04:44:35,300 --> 04:44:40,200
There's an obligation on the part of the department or the faith-based group to determine who the

3351
04:44:40,200 --> 04:44:41,320
back up his who will.

3352
04:44:41,520 --> 04:44:44,900
There's always someone who will do that placement under the structure of his bill.

3353
04:44:45,300 --> 04:44:47,620
So once again, that child would be placed.

3354
04:44:47,880 --> 04:44:49,880
The child would be placed under the current law.

3355
04:44:50,060 --> 04:44:53,320
There's no obligation on the part of that faith-based provider to do anything.

3356
04:44:54,020 --> 04:44:59,200
And so this bill goes beyond the current law and puts on them an obligation to connect to DPS.

3357
04:44:59,200 --> 04:44:59,500
Yes.

3358
04:45:00,000 --> 04:45:29,340
Or make them aware of who the backup provider could be for them. And Ms. Smith had issues that her community would be excluded from this bill. It's my understanding that there are 75% of providers who are currently willing to serve any community. And that the 25% that have religious objections on different grounds wouldn't be excluded from the program, but would now be tasked with having some sort of referral to the department.

3359
04:45:29,340 --> 04:45:32,380
or for all to another organization who can serve them.

3360
04:45:32,580 --> 04:45:36,880
So once again, communities wouldn't be excluded, correct?

3361
04:45:37,080 --> 04:45:37,300
Correct.

3362
04:45:37,660 --> 04:45:43,200
That's what I want to make sure for the record that no community would be excluded in this bill.

3363
04:45:43,460 --> 04:45:44,060
That's correct.

3364
04:45:44,220 --> 04:45:47,480
This is a religious accommodation bill, not an exclusion on anyone.

3365
04:45:47,860 --> 04:45:51,620
If you will, this is an added value, added enhancement.

3366
04:45:52,000 --> 04:45:57,560
We are making available more groups, we're not excluding groups.

3367
04:45:57,560 --> 04:46:00,180
That's why I'm scratching my head with some of the folks against.

3368
04:46:01,260 --> 04:46:05,720
I've become frustrated when the mission should be to take care of the kids.

3369
04:46:06,380 --> 04:46:11,020
And it seems like we've got groups that are deviating from what that mission should be.

3370
04:46:11,500 --> 04:46:15,380
I don't understand it, but anyway, members, do we have any other questions?

3371
04:46:16,180 --> 04:46:16,260
Yes.

3372
04:46:16,860 --> 04:46:17,260
Thank you.

3373
04:46:17,500 --> 04:46:18,500
I'm glad you're back up.

3374
04:46:18,700 --> 04:46:23,720
And you may have asked questions already, but you said, best interest of the child, you'll find that in case law.

3375
04:46:24,220 --> 04:46:28,820
Is there a way you can provide, I don't want to stack a case and trust me, I don't want to read through all that.

3376
04:46:29,000 --> 04:46:33,160
But like, some kind of summary of what the case law has said about what that's going to be.

3377
04:46:33,160 --> 04:46:35,220
I'm really happy to work with the department on that.

3378
04:46:35,500 --> 04:46:41,320
We have deputized them to represent themselves in court and I'll work with their general counsel on collecting some sort of summer.

3379
04:46:41,420 --> 04:46:46,120
Yeah, they can page or two that just kind of talks about some specifics that are that we can look at pointing.

3380
04:46:46,440 --> 04:46:47,860
I'm happy to work with them on that. Thank you.

3381
04:46:48,020 --> 04:46:48,260
Thank you.

3382
04:46:49,140 --> 04:46:51,100
Okay. Members, any other questions from the staff?

3383
04:46:51,560 --> 04:46:51,880
Thank you.

3384
04:46:51,880 --> 04:46:57,740
We'll probably have you up again so don't go too far and I'm going to bring a miss myth back up

3385
04:46:58,840 --> 04:47:03,660
I just let her finish up. Okay, so we'll do this all over again. You need to

3386
04:47:04,520 --> 04:47:10,860
Tell me who you represent. Do I need my paper? No, because all you're going to do is come back up and you're going to tell me who you

3387
04:47:10,860 --> 04:47:16,480
Rep. My name is Aaron Smith. I'm representing adoption advocates and myself and I impose HB 3859

3388
04:47:16,480 --> 04:47:19,900
Okay, and did you have any closing comment?

3389
04:47:19,900 --> 04:47:27,900
And then my comment to you was, I hope that your group will make yourselves available

3390
04:47:27,900 --> 04:47:31,900
for fostering these kids, because you can be part of the solutions, and the solution

3391
04:47:31,900 --> 04:47:37,540
would be great, because once again we don't have enough people that are willing to do

3392
04:47:37,540 --> 04:47:37,820
this.

3393
04:47:39,300 --> 04:47:42,100
And so thank you, thank you for being here.

3394
04:47:42,840 --> 04:47:45,580
Will Francis, National Association of Social Workers,

3395
04:47:49,060 --> 04:47:53,740
Texas Chapter, here to speak against the bill.

3396
04:47:56,400 --> 04:47:58,440
Thank you for the opportunity to testify, Chairman Cook.

3397
04:47:58,580 --> 04:48:02,480
I don't think you're in a position, but it is something I sincerely believe that this bill.

3398
04:48:03,080 --> 04:48:07,280
My name is Will Francis, the government relations director for the National Association of Social Workers, Texas Chapter.

3399
04:48:07,900 --> 04:48:10,080
And I represent around 6,000 social workers around the state.

3400
04:48:10,200 --> 04:48:11,560
I'm here to testify in opposition to it.

3401
04:48:12,160 --> 04:48:16,360
NASW Texas applauded Representative Frank's efforts to transform the child welfare system

3402
04:48:16,360 --> 04:48:19,080
and he's been a strong and passionate advocate for change this session.

3403
04:48:19,480 --> 04:48:24,360
We believe he does sincerely believe this bill to be inclusionary, but HB3859 creates

3404
04:48:24,360 --> 04:48:27,260
the untenable situation of stripping the child's voice from the process.

3405
04:48:27,800 --> 04:48:31,260
The opening language of the bill describes providers helping to accommodate children from various

3406
04:48:31,260 --> 04:48:35,160
cultural backgrounds, and yet the wording that follows does not once mention the child's

3407
04:48:35,160 --> 04:48:36,460
culture as a mitigating factor.

3408
04:48:37,140 --> 04:48:40,480
No wherewithin his legislation is a child able to bring their own identity, experiences,

3409
04:48:40,480 --> 04:48:44,740
wishes or feelings into a discussion about the choices the placement will make for them.

3410
04:48:45,200 --> 04:48:48,540
It allows anyone paid by the state who is to provide child welfare services,

3411
04:48:48,740 --> 04:48:52,520
the ability to decline any service to a child or person based upon their religious beliefs.

3412
04:48:53,100 --> 04:48:59,080
Our child protection system is set up to accept every child exactly as they are based on the abuse and neglect that they've suffered.

3413
04:48:59,460 --> 04:49:03,660
And by removing that acceptance, we are doing a disservice to children in a situation beyond their control.

3414
04:49:04,280 --> 04:49:08,040
These children entered care because of what was done to them and in some instances because of who they are.

3415
04:49:08,040 --> 04:49:17,680
And subjecting that to a provider's determination of how they will or will not support the child is contrary to the state-of-the-DFPS value of involving clients, families, and communities in decision-making.

3416
04:49:18,280 --> 04:49:23,620
Secondly, this bill allows a placement to enroll any child in the religious school of their choice without any input from the child.

3417
04:49:23,840 --> 04:49:28,100
This means that a child from one religious background could be placed in a school that is modeled upon a completely different religion.

3418
04:49:28,500 --> 04:49:37,620
By giving the provider the ability to be the sole arbiter of the child's education without any consideration, for their history experiences or desires, this bill once again raises the child from the equation.

3419
04:49:37,620 --> 04:49:45,820
Currently, children under five are able to attend a private school, the departmental permission, and those over five can attend a school accredited by the Texas private school accreditation commission.

3420
04:49:46,240 --> 04:49:48,360
Departmental approval is needed for any other circumstance.

3421
04:49:49,180 --> 04:49:55,480
Lastly, this bill allows anyone connected to the child welfare system to refuse to work with a child or family when abortions or contraceptives are part of the discussion.

3422
04:49:56,140 --> 04:49:59,760
Texas allows teens to buy non-prescription over the counter-birth control.

3423
04:50:00,000 --> 04:50:29,920
This is their right. To refuse to work with a child who is exercising their rights, to not attempt conversations that educate you, educate you about sexual activity, rather than just, rather than dictate to them a set of personal beliefs, is another indicator of how this bill rejects the very children it purports to support. This bill wants to allow contractors engage with the state to select what types of clients they will and won't work with based on religious preferences. The Religious Freedom Restoration Act passed in 1999, or he does this, and HB 389, 3059, cast such a wide net, that it completely shifts the perspective of the entire system away

3424
04:50:29,920 --> 04:50:31,240
from the child and towards the provider.

3425
04:50:31,820 --> 04:50:35,080
A child is placed in a foster home because of documented abuse and neglect.

3426
04:50:35,540 --> 04:50:38,120
They did not ask for this situation and they often reject it.

3427
04:50:38,460 --> 04:50:41,540
They need as much acceptance, support, and care as possible.

3428
04:50:42,020 --> 04:50:45,240
This bill removes the child's voice, strength, and history from the equation.

3429
04:50:45,720 --> 04:50:48,100
This is a disservice to everyone involved in the child welfare system.

3430
04:50:48,360 --> 04:50:49,660
Thank you for the opportunity to testify today.

3431
04:50:50,380 --> 04:50:51,920
Yes, from questions over here, sir.

3432
04:50:52,080 --> 04:50:54,080
Mr. Francis, I just have a couple of quick questions.

3433
04:50:54,080 --> 04:50:59,620
And I'm going off of previous testimony in what Representative Frank said, so please

3434
04:50:59,620 --> 04:51:00,580
bear with me.

3435
04:51:01,180 --> 04:51:05,320
Your testimony here was that the interest of the child are not taken into consideration,

3436
04:51:05,580 --> 04:51:05,780
correct?

3437
04:51:05,920 --> 04:51:09,300
I believe you testified that it's not taken into consideration, the religion of the child,

3438
04:51:09,540 --> 04:51:09,900
et cetera.

3439
04:51:10,200 --> 04:51:11,080
Is that not your testimony?

3440
04:51:11,420 --> 04:51:11,540
Correct.

3441
04:51:11,880 --> 04:51:14,720
You mentioned best interest, but I have not seen the committee sub, so I do not know if

3442
04:51:14,720 --> 04:51:14,940
that change.

3443
04:51:15,100 --> 04:51:18,760
No, and not even the best interest, but as I understand it, and do you work with CPS?

3444
04:51:18,940 --> 04:51:19,100
Do you?

3445
04:51:19,340 --> 04:51:20,760
I used to work with CPS for two and a half years.

3446
04:51:20,960 --> 04:51:21,100
Okay.

3447
04:51:21,100 --> 04:51:25,140
So you're intimately familiar with foster care process and what CPS does and does not do correct?

3448
04:51:25,340 --> 04:51:30,800
Correct. Okay. So as I understand it, CPS does take that into consideration when determining

3449
04:51:30,800 --> 04:51:36,600
where to place a child already. Correct. In the current theft. Correct. That they say,

3450
04:51:36,600 --> 04:51:42,140
hey, look, I mean, if you, as I believe Representative Frank used, if you're a Baptist child,

3451
04:51:42,220 --> 04:51:46,080
you're probably not going to get placed with an atheist. And you let me know, you've got the experience.

3452
04:51:46,080 --> 04:51:50,020
I would say I would disagree in areas where capacity is low and that some of the challenges with CPS

3453
04:51:50,020 --> 04:51:53,000
is that we do not have placements all over the state, the current mission of the

3454
04:51:53,000 --> 04:51:55,900
Department is to place kids within 50 miles of their home, but if we don't have

3455
04:51:55,900 --> 04:51:59,920
capacities, or if we don't have situations where we have similar type homes based

3456
04:51:59,920 --> 04:52:02,260
on the child's background, then we can't place those kids in those.

3457
04:52:02,280 --> 04:52:05,420
Right, and so do you have any empirical, and that's what we're all talking about here today, right?

3458
04:52:05,640 --> 04:52:09,200
Capacity, and what we want to do is increase the capacity, so do you have any empirical

3459
04:52:09,200 --> 04:52:13,700
data or evidence or testimony that's going to say that this bill will in fact not increase

3460
04:52:13,700 --> 04:52:15,500
the capacity which evidently is an issue?

3461
04:52:15,980 --> 04:52:19,380
No, I do have data which I do believe shows that our capacity had an increasing

3462
04:52:19,380 --> 04:52:24,180
We are still recruiting, the department is very, I think asking the department what their capacity is like.

3463
04:52:24,520 --> 04:52:27,100
We know that we need more homes, but that we have been increasing homes.

3464
04:52:27,600 --> 04:52:32,640
The idea from my perspective and my concern having worked with kids is that you're going to have a child potentially come out.

3465
04:52:32,660 --> 04:52:38,440
You're going to have a child ask specific services, you're going to have a child say something about their own rights, and then be rejected by a placement based on this bill.

3466
04:52:38,700 --> 04:52:47,960
So it's not necessarily even saying we bring more people into the situation, it's saying do we have kids in the care who are going to be pushed out of getting access to services that they should have access to because of this bill.

3467
04:52:47,960 --> 04:52:51,320
But we can all agree, increasing doesn't mean meeting needs, right?

3468
04:52:52,420 --> 04:52:53,060
I don't understand the question.

3469
04:52:53,200 --> 04:52:55,520
You're saying that capacity is increasing, correct?

3470
04:52:56,140 --> 04:52:58,940
I'm saying that we, yes, I'm saying that the department is currently out there looking

3471
04:52:58,940 --> 04:53:00,060
for more foster homes right now.

3472
04:53:00,120 --> 04:53:01,340
Currently out there looking for more foster homes.

3473
04:53:01,420 --> 04:53:05,760
But would you disagree with the basic point that we still need additional capacity?

3474
04:53:05,980 --> 04:53:06,680
Correct, I agree.

3475
04:53:06,820 --> 04:53:09,360
So although increasing doesn't mean we're meeting needs as of yet, correct?

3476
04:53:09,700 --> 04:53:13,200
No, but I would say that we should be recruiting homes that are willing to follow the laws

3477
04:53:13,200 --> 04:53:16,120
of the, of the, of the, of the land, and I think that we should, we should, once again,

3478
04:53:16,120 --> 04:53:19,780
respect the fact that all laws are out there, be it be they laws on same-sex

3479
04:53:19,780 --> 04:53:23,240
marriage, laws on access to contraceptions and abortion, these are laws.

3480
04:53:23,440 --> 04:53:26,540
And so saying that you would like to disregard certain laws simply because of certain

3481
04:53:26,540 --> 04:53:29,300
beliefs, I think it's concerning when you're talking about other people's rights

3482
04:53:29,300 --> 04:53:30,760
to the access to those laws as well.

3483
04:53:31,140 --> 04:53:36,060
Right, and respectfully I would put out to you that this bill in no way at all contradicts

3484
04:53:36,060 --> 04:53:36,600
any other laws.

3485
04:53:36,680 --> 04:53:39,080
And in fact, as you've heard the testimony from the Attorney General's Office,

3486
04:53:39,220 --> 04:53:41,600
and we can bring the start where you're hiding.

3487
04:53:42,200 --> 04:53:45,660
Okay, and there you are, I was trying to back up, I mean, I believe, I don't know.

3488
04:53:45,660 --> 04:53:51,660
I believe the Attorney General's testimony is, in fact, what this does is it includes not excludes it, you know, and it does not discriminate.

3489
04:53:51,940 --> 04:53:57,420
So I'm trying to understand from the Attorney General's office and quite frankly, as an attorney myself, reading the statute.

3490
04:53:57,560 --> 04:54:09,580
Because that's what I'm trying to do here and trying to come to grips with, as is the chairman that when you actually read the statute, and maybe not the one page that are out there on it, it doesn't, I think quite do what some folks believe it does.

3491
04:54:09,580 --> 04:54:17,940
So I would encourage you to look back at the statute and look at the capacity issue which you yourself have said is an issue in how this will hopefully address the capacity issue.

3492
04:54:18,220 --> 04:54:19,120
Thank you, sir, for your time.

3493
04:54:19,260 --> 04:54:19,800
I appreciate it.

3494
04:54:20,260 --> 04:54:20,700
Thank you.

3495
04:54:21,340 --> 04:54:21,740
All right.

3496
04:54:21,960 --> 04:54:23,020
Members, any other questions?

3497
04:54:23,320 --> 04:54:23,540
All right.

3498
04:54:23,660 --> 04:54:30,160
I'll call Kate Murphy, senior child welfare policy associate, Texas care for children against the bill.

3499
04:54:40,600 --> 04:54:41,420
Good afternoon.

3500
04:54:41,640 --> 04:54:42,380
My name is Kate Murphy.

3501
04:54:42,600 --> 04:54:45,600
I'm the senior child welfare associate at Texans care for children.

3502
04:54:45,600 --> 04:54:49,360
and I am testifying against House Bill 3859.

3503
04:54:51,160 --> 04:54:55,520
I want to start out by thanking Representative Frank for what he's trying to do with this bill.

3504
04:54:55,700 --> 04:54:59,480
I really truly believe that Representative Frank is trying to include more homes.

3505
04:54:59,480 --> 04:54:59,940
you

3506
04:55:00,000 --> 04:55:08,020
And trying to include as many people to participate in this as possible, I do not believe that this bill effectuates that intent.

3507
04:55:10,240 --> 04:55:21,480
First, I'd like to clarify something, in my reading of the bill, this bill creates a right for providers to sue the state, it does not prevent providers from being sued.

3508
04:55:21,480 --> 04:55:35,380
Second, all of the lawsuits that I'm currently familiar with, that providers have faced on this area of religious liberty on this conscious rights issue, have been in federal court, not state court.

3509
04:55:35,660 --> 04:55:41,280
So they will still be able to be sued in federal court regardless of whether this legislation passes.

3510
04:55:43,280 --> 04:55:51,460
I think there are some important protections included in this bill that are not included in some of the other similar bills that have been filed on this.

3511
04:55:52,440 --> 04:55:57,260
There's one area that I really think needs additional protection and additional

3512
04:55:57,260 --> 04:56:01,660
clarification, and that is on the issue of whether SSEC's are excluded.

3513
04:56:02,100 --> 04:56:07,580
The author definitely intended to exclude SSEC's, but I believe given a liberal

3514
04:56:07,580 --> 04:56:15,140
construction of the bill, a court could interpret or a lawyer could interpret this to mean

3515
04:56:15,140 --> 04:56:21,400
that the SSEC could potentially sue the state for violating its conscience rights.

3516
04:56:21,960 --> 04:56:23,440
And that is not acceptable.

3517
04:56:23,640 --> 04:56:27,540
It's particularly not acceptable as we move toward a system where more and

3518
04:56:27,540 --> 04:56:32,100
more private providers will be having the primary responsibility for foster and

3519
04:56:32,100 --> 04:56:34,420
adoptive services in their respective regions.

3520
04:56:34,960 --> 04:56:39,300
We echo the concerns that many have raised about this bill potentially being

3521
04:56:39,300 --> 04:56:47,380
are construed by a court or a judge or an attorney to hurt the rights of children.

3522
04:56:47,700 --> 04:56:52,680
It's very broad language, I think we need to make sure that in the construction section,

3523
04:56:53,300 --> 04:57:00,440
we include language that specifies exactly which rights of children should be protected.

3524
04:57:01,120 --> 04:57:06,680
And which rights this bill cannot be meant to impune.

3525
04:57:06,680 --> 04:57:10,660
So I'm open to questions.

3526
04:57:12,460 --> 04:57:14,260
Members, yes, go ahead.

3527
04:57:15,460 --> 04:57:16,780
Mr. Murphy, thank you for being here.

3528
04:57:17,220 --> 04:57:22,920
You've mentioned a couple of different areas in which you believe I guess the bill could be tightened up a little bit to address some concerns.

3529
04:57:22,920 --> 04:57:24,960
Which, quite frankly, I don't think we're all disputing.

3530
04:57:25,000 --> 04:57:27,020
Have you addressed those with Representative Frank?

3531
04:57:27,080 --> 04:57:29,040
Have you spoken with his office? Have you been working on the language?

3532
04:57:29,160 --> 04:57:30,920
I know they've been open to it.

3533
04:57:31,120 --> 04:57:31,500
Yes, sir.

3534
04:57:31,740 --> 04:57:36,120
Okay. And what has come of that, are you still talking to them about these issues?

3535
04:57:36,120 --> 04:57:41,040
Yes, I spoke with their office yesterday, in fact, and emailed with them this morning.

3536
04:57:42,020 --> 04:57:48,180
On the SSEC issue, Ledge Council believes that the language that is in there is sufficient,

3537
04:57:48,300 --> 04:57:48,780
I disagree.

3538
04:57:49,180 --> 04:57:53,360
I think because of the direction the state is moving in terms of privatization, we need

3539
04:57:53,360 --> 04:57:58,760
to be extra clear in statute that we intend to exclude SSECs, and I think that's very important.

3540
04:57:59,200 --> 04:58:01,400
I don't want there to be any room for error in that.

3541
04:58:02,640 --> 04:58:08,420
On the issue of including best interests of the child staying paramount, I believe

3542
04:58:08,420 --> 04:58:11,680
you've already heard from Representative Frank that that's their goal, and they have

3543
04:58:11,680 --> 04:58:15,780
been open to discussions about making sure that children's rights are protected.

3544
04:58:16,040 --> 04:58:16,340
Very good.

3545
04:58:16,500 --> 04:58:16,920
Thank you.

3546
04:58:17,480 --> 04:58:18,120
Yes, good.

3547
04:58:18,760 --> 04:58:21,780
I don't know if you have the bill in front of you or not, but it's okay.

3548
04:58:21,920 --> 04:58:26,560
The section says this tap may not be construed to allow a child welfare service provider to

3549
04:58:26,560 --> 04:58:31,600
the decline, basically the non-discrimination clause, would it help the bill in your

3550
04:58:31,600 --> 04:58:36,140
view if we added religion, sexual orientation, and several other things?

3551
04:58:36,240 --> 04:58:38,160
Would that help the bill or?

3552
04:58:38,480 --> 04:58:42,040
Absolutely, and if you turn to the last page of my testimony, I listed out what I think

3553
04:58:42,040 --> 04:58:44,220
should be included under that provision.

3554
04:58:44,720 --> 04:58:51,340
Great, and I know that there's a foster kid's bill of rights, that's that I think

3555
04:58:51,340 --> 04:58:55,580
CPS kind of has internally, I'm wondering if you get some of that language and put that in

3556
04:58:55,580 --> 04:58:57,880
And this bill, do you think that would make this a better bill?

3557
04:58:57,880 --> 04:58:58,140
I do.

3558
04:58:58,600 --> 04:58:58,960
Thank you.

3559
04:59:00,850 --> 04:59:05,510
Now, does your group provide foster service?

3560
04:59:05,830 --> 04:59:07,270
We do not provide foster services.

3561
04:59:07,570 --> 04:59:14,790
We advocate for a myriad of different children's issues ranging from health care to mental health to juvenile justice issues.

3562
04:59:15,010 --> 04:59:16,430
I focus on our child welfare issues.

3563
04:59:17,270 --> 04:59:22,850
Well, let's hope we do something about this issue because we got kids that are suffering, right?

3564
04:59:22,850 --> 04:59:23,610
That's totally agree.

3565
04:59:24,750 --> 04:59:28,670
Okay, Sherry Stattler, here representing herself,

3566
04:59:33,180 --> 04:59:34,340
speak for the bill.

3567
04:59:35,480 --> 04:59:36,880
Yes, sir, good afternoon, Chairman.

3568
04:59:37,140 --> 04:59:37,580
Good afternoon.

3569
04:59:38,000 --> 04:59:43,060
My name is Sherry Stattler, and I'm employed by Christian Homes and Family Services.

3570
04:59:44,000 --> 04:59:47,320
We've been known for decades as either Christian Homes of Abilene or Christian Services.

3571
04:59:47,460 --> 04:59:48,100
I've got you.

3572
04:59:48,560 --> 04:59:52,360
Sherry, did you just representing yourself, okay, for the bill?

3573
04:59:53,000 --> 04:59:55,620
Is it all right for me to share with you my, what I do for a living?

3574
04:59:55,620 --> 04:59:59,940
You can do that, but we can't represent anybody other than yourself, okay sure

3575
05:00:00,430 --> 05:00:16,590
Sure. So I'm president, basically, of an adoption agency. And I support Bill 3859, and I want to also thank Chairman Frank for his work on this bill. And I appreciate y'all hearing us out today.

3576
05:00:17,130 --> 05:00:17,710
What did I say?

3577
05:00:17,890 --> 05:00:18,210
Oh, sorry.

3578
05:00:20,370 --> 05:00:29,030
Christian Hums and Family Services encourages young women to choose life for their babies and win best, also adoption by loving Christian couples anxious to be parents.

3579
05:00:29,030 --> 05:00:39,110
We also work with Christian families who love and care for children who have been abused or abandoned and are in the managing conservatorship of the state as foster children.

3580
05:00:39,870 --> 05:00:42,970
We have placed almost 2,000 children for adoption.

3581
05:00:43,510 --> 05:00:51,650
We cared for about 1,800 foster children and we provide care and services for more than 2,800 women with unplanned pregnancies.

3582
05:00:51,650 --> 05:00:58,010
I think the high turnover rate of child protective services staff and the large caseload

3583
05:00:58,010 --> 05:01:03,510
that created a crisis at CPS would be even worse without faith-based organizations providing

3584
05:01:03,510 --> 05:01:04,950
substantial services.

3585
05:01:05,930 --> 05:01:10,930
And with more than 15,000 children in foster care, it's critical that the state continue

3586
05:01:10,930 --> 05:01:15,410
to allow faith-based providers to work for the best interests of our children and that you

3587
05:01:15,410 --> 05:01:17,910
do everything you can to protect and strengthen our work.

3588
05:01:19,230 --> 05:01:23,910
As you've heard today, the faith-based providers believe that we serve a vital function.

3589
05:01:24,770 --> 05:01:30,370
I also believe that faith-based providers, such as the one where I'm employed, relieve

3590
05:01:30,370 --> 05:01:35,050
the state of financial costs, allowing more children to receive the support they need

3591
05:01:35,050 --> 05:01:35,490
and deserve.

3592
05:01:35,670 --> 05:01:39,590
We basically make the dollars that are provided by the legislature.

3593
05:01:39,590 --> 05:01:41,510
We help them go further.

3594
05:01:41,510 --> 05:01:49,090
In fact, for every state dollar that Christian Homes receives for the foster care provides as far as reimbursement goes,

3595
05:01:49,750 --> 05:01:51,930
Christian Homes matches that by a dollar or more.

3596
05:01:53,410 --> 05:02:00,370
Working with state agencies, we also believe we provide children with their best chance at being placed in a permanent and loving home.

3597
05:02:00,370 --> 05:02:09,670
In fact, nine out of the ten couples who choose to establish a foster home through Christian Homes do so in hopes of

3598
05:02:09,670 --> 05:02:11,830
we're ultimately adopting the children they foster.

3599
05:02:13,550 --> 05:02:20,770
We believe that the adoption results permanently remove the state's children from the state's role in foster care roles.

3600
05:02:21,710 --> 05:02:27,250
We believe that Texas shall allow faith-based child placing agencies to live out our deeply held and

3601
05:02:27,250 --> 05:02:30,770
sincerely held religious convictions regarding the family.

3602
05:02:31,210 --> 05:02:39,250
We see this bill as a bold move, move in the right direction, and it represents a significant improvement in Texas public policy.

3603
05:02:39,790 --> 05:02:43,650
As you move forward to strengthen the protections you give our foster children,

3604
05:02:44,210 --> 05:02:48,750
we would ask that you also strengthen the protections afforded to faith-based organizations,

3605
05:02:49,670 --> 05:02:51,230
such as the one where I work.

3606
05:02:51,830 --> 05:02:56,030
We seek to be true providers with the state, true partners with the state,

3607
05:02:56,190 --> 05:03:00,790
and caring for children and want to continue in an even more significant capacity.

3608
05:03:00,790 --> 05:03:05,010
And we believe that with this protection, we can increase our capacity.

3609
05:03:05,510 --> 05:03:08,210
Thank you very much for hearing me out on this, I appreciate it.

3610
05:03:08,210 --> 05:03:09,330
Thank you very much for your testimony.

3611
05:03:15,480 --> 05:03:25,900
Dr. Catherine Burellis, okay, Director of Child Welfare Policy, one voice Texas here to speak against the bill.

3612
05:03:30,920 --> 05:03:41,440
Good afternoon members, my name is Dr. Catherine Burellis and I'm Director of Child Welfare Policy, one voice Texas here today to testify with respectful opposition to 3859.

3613
05:03:41,820 --> 05:03:46,060
The mission of the Department of Family and Protective Services is to protect children.

3614
05:03:46,060 --> 05:03:48,420
and that in great part involves the provision of services.

3615
05:03:48,940 --> 05:03:54,100
The primary way that DFPS does this is through contracts with private entities that agree

3616
05:03:54,100 --> 05:03:56,980
to deliver a particular set of services for a set amount of money.

3617
05:03:57,540 --> 05:04:01,580
If the needs of children cannot be met or a provider does not like the terms of the agreement,

3618
05:04:02,020 --> 05:04:06,320
then during the contract negotiation process either of both parties can refuse to move forward

3619
05:04:06,320 --> 05:04:08,220
or can determine points of compromise.

3620
05:04:08,800 --> 05:04:14,200
However, if HB3859 is passed, DFPS will no longer be able to prudently and fairly enter

3621
05:04:14,200 --> 05:04:19,500
into, negotiate, or manage contracts with providers, thereby hindering the ability of the department

3622
05:04:20,080 --> 05:04:22,900
to secure appropriate services for children and conservatorship.

3623
05:04:23,460 --> 05:04:27,700
In addition, providers will be obliged to certain contract provisions that they then cannot

3624
05:04:27,700 --> 05:04:30,000
meet due to their sincerely held religious beliefs.

3625
05:04:30,940 --> 05:04:35,680
The legislation allows a provider to decline among other things, housing, counseling, and

3626
05:04:35,680 --> 05:04:39,920
the general category of assisting abused or neglected children if it conflicts with a sincerely

3627
05:04:39,920 --> 05:04:40,980
held religious belief.

3628
05:04:40,980 --> 05:04:45,780
The ability to provide purchase services such as these should be fully outlined before

3629
05:04:45,780 --> 05:04:47,260
a contract is finalized.

3630
05:04:48,120 --> 05:04:52,480
Religious protections after the fact are already included in chapter 110 of the Civil Practice

3631
05:04:52,480 --> 05:04:56,900
and Remedies Code and should not allow a provider to reneg on an already agreed upon service.

3632
05:04:56,900 --> 05:04:59,940
Although unintentional, HB3850N sets...

3633
05:05:00,000 --> 05:05:29,980
Providers up for contractual failure and holds the state hostage by prohibiting them from taking any action in their own best interests or those of the children they serve. Inability to meet contractual obligations needs to be determined prior to entering into a contract or the state should have some ability to protect its interests and the interests of the children in its custody. If a provider has a sincerely held religious belief that would prevent them, for example, from transporting youth for an abortion or to a support group for gay teens, then that provider should raise these issues before

3634
05:05:29,980 --> 05:05:32,280
We're obligating themselves in a contract with the state.

3635
05:05:32,720 --> 05:05:35,020
Thank you very much, and I'll take any questions you may have.

3636
05:05:37,040 --> 05:05:38,160
Yes, go ahead, Rep.

3637
05:05:38,260 --> 05:05:39,540
Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

3638
05:05:40,180 --> 05:05:43,420
So, let's just use the example you just mentioned.

3639
05:05:43,700 --> 05:05:48,780
So, how would CPS know that someone maybe wants mental health treatment or

3640
05:05:48,780 --> 05:05:54,260
whatever else if the foster family is not, doesn't believe in it.

3641
05:05:54,420 --> 05:06:00,500
If it's an Scientology, doesn't believe in mental health services, I guess, as an example.

3642
05:06:00,500 --> 05:06:05,220
So, how would that, how would CPS ever come into play for the best interest of the child,

3643
05:06:05,240 --> 05:06:09,060
right, if they're going to go in there and say, hey, I know that's your, since your religious

3644
05:06:09,060 --> 05:06:14,180
belief, but that's not in the best interest of the child, how would CPS know that it's happening?

3645
05:06:14,480 --> 05:06:19,280
Well, according to the testimony of providers today, these are, sincerely held religious

3646
05:06:19,280 --> 05:06:23,680
beliefs, which they've had the opportunity, sometimes unfortunately, through lawsuits

3647
05:06:23,680 --> 05:06:24,560
to defend.

3648
05:06:25,020 --> 05:06:29,760
It's a part of their, their practice as an institution or their history as a religious

3649
05:06:29,760 --> 05:06:35,920
organization, and I think those discussions can certainly be had during the contract negotiation process.

3650
05:06:36,160 --> 05:06:43,420
So for example, if you will not be providing any facilitation, a service, or another contract

3651
05:06:43,420 --> 05:06:49,100
and provision that would lead to a youth having an abortion, I think that's a discussion

3652
05:06:49,100 --> 05:06:52,460
that can be had ahead of time and included in the contract.

3653
05:06:52,660 --> 05:06:57,260
There are obviously scenarios that are going to arise that no one could have possibly imagined.

3654
05:06:57,260 --> 05:07:03,100
And I'm assuming CPS can also ask every single question before they approve of someone

3655
05:07:03,100 --> 05:07:04,420
maybe fostering a child.

3656
05:07:04,600 --> 05:07:09,800
So, and a child may not have mental health issues or whatever the case may be at the time

3657
05:07:09,800 --> 05:07:15,620
and CPS may not ask at the front end how do you feel about mental health care.

3658
05:07:16,160 --> 05:07:16,320
Right.

3659
05:07:16,540 --> 05:07:22,360
So, those things coming up, is it up to the child then to report this to CPS or how will

3660
05:07:22,360 --> 05:07:26,760
Does the CPS know to interact, I mean, to engage, I guess, in that situation?

3661
05:07:27,040 --> 05:07:29,060
If the child couldn't receive a particular service that's really nice.

3662
05:07:29,060 --> 05:07:33,280
Does the CPS have the child to contact CPS, or is it, how does it work?

3663
05:07:33,500 --> 05:07:33,740
I don't know anything about that.

3664
05:07:34,460 --> 05:07:40,920
Well, the child certainly has the option of contacting their case worker, although with high case loads they're not always available.

3665
05:07:41,200 --> 05:07:46,720
There's also an OMS Budsman office at HHSC that's particularly for youth and children in foster care.

3666
05:07:46,720 --> 05:07:55,720
It sounds like Representative Frank's intention is that the department would ensure there are secondary services in an area how they would know how to do that

3667
05:07:55,720 --> 05:08:04,020
I'm not sure and that the provider would be responsible for contacting the department and letting them know that this is a service that they can't provide

3668
05:08:04,020 --> 05:08:14,160
that then needs to be found someplace else which as the LBB said in the description of the fiscal note really raises contractual issues for both parties at that point.

3669
05:08:14,160 --> 05:08:15,800
Okay, thank you.

3670
05:08:19,320 --> 05:08:20,180
Any other questions?

3671
05:08:21,100 --> 05:08:23,680
And the kids lose while we're doing this stuff.

3672
05:08:23,960 --> 05:08:31,500
So, anyway, Bethany Reece, Texas Bastard's home and herself here to speak for the bill.

3673
05:08:51,340 --> 05:08:52,920
Good afternoon, Chairman and members.

3674
05:08:53,480 --> 05:08:57,220
My name is Bethany Reece, and I'm representing the Southern Baptist of Texas Convention,

3675
05:08:57,780 --> 05:09:03,040
the Baptist Missionary Association, and Texas Baptist Home, where I am the failing development supervisor.

3676
05:09:03,040 --> 05:09:07,480
I am testifying in support of House Bill 3859.

3677
05:09:08,440 --> 05:09:14,020
Our children's home has been in operation since 1910 and has provided care for approximately 10,000 children.

3678
05:09:14,600 --> 05:09:18,320
We have had, we have also completed over 300 adoptions since 2001.

3679
05:09:18,760 --> 05:09:22,860
We have the capacity to care for 170 plus foster children.

3680
05:09:23,160 --> 05:09:27,080
But since the group home ruling, we have only been able to provide care for about 120.

3681
05:09:27,920 --> 05:09:31,500
We value being able to implement our religious beliefs into our drug practice.

3682
05:09:31,500 --> 05:09:36,240
I want to make clear there is absolutely no forcing religion onto anyone in our care.

3683
05:09:36,780 --> 05:09:41,060
We seek to protect and promote family in our clients and we want to be able to work

3684
05:09:41,060 --> 05:09:45,300
in partnership with secular providers to maximize the number of homes while giving children

3685
05:09:45,300 --> 05:09:45,760
a voice.

3686
05:09:46,420 --> 05:09:50,520
Texas Baptist Home has a statement of faith that foster parents are aware of before being

3687
05:09:50,520 --> 05:09:54,960
licensed and many of our families choose to go with our agency based on our beliefs and statement

3688
05:09:54,960 --> 05:09:55,500
of faith.

3689
05:09:56,480 --> 05:09:59,940
Foster Pants are also trained on children's rights and know they cannot

3690
05:10:00,000 --> 05:10:29,980
4-star beliefs on children. Texas Baptist Home has personally had growing concerns where staff and foster parents have faced situations where there was a concern in having to compromise their religious views instead of beliefs. For example, during the summertime, a Christian camp specifically for children in foster care is put on in the DFW area. Texas Baptist Home notifies all of our foster families who have children who are eligible since we think it would be a great opportunity for children to be able to go and relate with children all over the DFW.

3691
05:10:29,980 --> 05:10:31,780
Metroplex have been through similar experiences.

3692
05:10:32,480 --> 05:10:36,160
Two of our children expressed interest in wanting to go, even though their biological

3693
05:10:36,160 --> 05:10:40,420
parent did not want them to attend, but we had to go through a series of steps with

3694
05:10:40,420 --> 05:10:44,280
DFS and the court for them to be able to attend the camp just because of the Christian camp.

3695
05:10:44,760 --> 05:10:48,600
We had to go through the protocol of sending a description and agenda of the camp to the

3696
05:10:48,600 --> 05:10:53,300
judge in order to obtain approval and all the while the children wanted to go to camp and

3697
05:10:53,300 --> 05:10:53,860
not miss out.

3698
05:10:54,780 --> 05:11:05,200
Our same in the faith requires our families to consist of a married mother and father, a single man or woman, someone who's divorced or widowed.

3699
05:11:06,300 --> 05:11:14,580
When someone calls asking if we place children with same-sex couples or an unmarried couple, we face the fear of one day being in a lawsuit due to our religious pleas.

3700
05:11:15,260 --> 05:11:18,400
There is a concern that one day we will be sued or forced to allow this.

3701
05:11:18,400 --> 05:11:23,340
Each time we tell someone, we do not place the same sex couples and in a married couple,

3702
05:11:23,580 --> 05:11:28,120
we make it a point to refer them to another agency who does, so that we are still working

3703
05:11:28,120 --> 05:11:29,900
in partnership with non-religious providers.

3704
05:11:32,400 --> 05:11:35,460
Texas Baptist Home Requires Family Slice and Thrust to attend a church.

3705
05:11:36,040 --> 05:11:39,980
We believe that there is a lot of support in a church, and the foster parents can benefit

3706
05:11:39,980 --> 05:11:42,920
from being in a community during this journey of fostering adoption.

3707
05:11:43,440 --> 05:11:47,960
Many churches in the DFW area provide good resources for foster families and children.

3708
05:11:48,940 --> 05:11:53,320
Most of our children care and joy going to church and it gives them the opportunity to be a part of the community.

3709
05:11:54,660 --> 05:11:59,160
Although there have been situations where children placed in foster home needed to go to the foster

3710
05:11:59,160 --> 05:12:03,860
panel because they were not able to stay home by themselves, it has turned more into a supervision issue.

3711
05:12:04,720 --> 05:12:09,420
Our agency has already been greatly affected by the federal court order and we pray that nothing else threatens our operations.

3712
05:12:09,420 --> 05:12:15,900
We want to continue to be able to do our job protecting and administering to vulnerable children, which is why we support HB 3859.

3713
05:12:56,920 --> 05:12:58,100
Good afternoon, Chairman.

3714
05:12:58,820 --> 05:13:00,460
Thank you for the opportunity to testify.

3715
05:13:00,900 --> 05:13:05,320
I would like to say on behalf of the, excuse me, my name is Rebecca Robertson.

3716
05:13:05,400 --> 05:13:12,440
I'm the legal and policy director of the American Civil Liberties Union of Texas and I'm offering this testimony on behalf of our members in opposition to the bill.

3717
05:13:13,060 --> 05:13:18,380
I would like to say that, for almost 100 years, the ACLU has fought for religious liberty.

3718
05:13:19,080 --> 05:13:26,520
And so it is very heartening to hear that the committee and the Bill's author, representative

3719
05:13:26,520 --> 05:13:32,260
Frank, are working to find ways to, as he said, reasonably accommodate people of faith.

3720
05:13:33,480 --> 05:13:38,340
However, given you written testimony that outlines the reasons that we think the bill goes

3721
05:13:38,340 --> 05:13:42,420
much further, I feel like I'd like to use the rest of my time to address.

3722
05:13:42,420 --> 05:13:46,820
a concern that was raised by some of the providers that our organization is bringing

3723
05:13:46,820 --> 05:13:50,400
lawsuits all over the country that somehow impede their ability to do their jobs.

3724
05:13:50,660 --> 05:13:54,900
I want to be very clear, the lawsuit that I know about was brought by the American Civil

3725
05:13:54,900 --> 05:14:00,800
Liberty Union against the Obama Administration, not against Catholic Charities or the Conference

3726
05:14:00,800 --> 05:14:01,500
of Vichips.

3727
05:14:01,960 --> 05:14:07,780
Catholic Charities and the Conference of Vichips intervened in the lawsuit voluntarily in order

3728
05:14:07,780 --> 05:14:13,460
to be able to participate and offer their point of view as is their right to do, but make

3729
05:14:13,460 --> 05:14:17,540
no mistake, we did not file a lawsuit against them. And that's because the claim that we brought

3730
05:14:17,540 --> 05:14:23,020
was an establishment clause claim. It said that the U.S. government was oversepping what was

3731
05:14:23,020 --> 05:14:27,940
permitted under the First Amendment in its administration of certain programs. That claim only lies

3732
05:14:27,940 --> 05:14:31,540
against the U.S. government, so we could not have sued the Catholic Conference of Bishops for that.

3733
05:14:31,840 --> 05:14:37,660
So to the extent that folks are here today worried about lawsuits, I just want to be clear that 38-50

3734
05:14:37,660 --> 05:14:44,060
Does not insulate anybody from an establishment clause lawsuit because that's not the kind of claim anybody could bring against them

3735
05:14:44,060 --> 05:14:51,160
That's the kind of claim that people who participate in the foster care system that children who are affected the family who are affected

3736
05:14:51,160 --> 05:14:59,940
Might bring against the state of Texas if it uses taxpayer dollars to preference one religion over another, but it's not the kind of claim that could be brought again

3737
05:15:17,380 --> 05:15:45,660
Hi, Mr. Chairman and members of the committee. Thank you for allowing me to speak today. My name is Lara Razzle. I represent adoption advocates and myself, and I oppose House Bill 3859. I am a licensed clinical social worker with over a decade of experience, primarily working with youth services, foster care, and adoption. LGBT kids are overrepresented in the foster care system. The incidence of LGBT orientation in the foster care system is more than twice that believed to exist in the general population.

3738
05:15:46,460 --> 05:15:52,140
LGBT youth are 30% more likely to be removed from their homes by CPS than non-LGBT youth.

3739
05:15:52,560 --> 05:15:56,360
I have worked as a house parent and as a psychotherapist in residential treatment centers

3740
05:15:56,360 --> 05:16:00,300
with kids removed from their homes after enduring severe abuse and neglect.

3741
05:16:01,000 --> 05:16:05,160
About three of every ten kids I worked with told me that they identified as LGBT.

3742
05:16:06,180 --> 05:16:10,220
When those kids believe that they had a place to go after completing treatment, they were

3743
05:16:10,220 --> 05:16:11,240
motivated to get better.

3744
05:16:11,240 --> 05:16:20,680
House bill 3859 would mean that those kids would be deemed unfit for certain taxpayer funded programs that felt religiously moved to reject them.

3745
05:16:21,320 --> 05:16:28,720
There is a shortage of foster and adoptive homes, tax dollars should not be wasted on programs that are prepared to turn away the very kids who need their help the most.

3746
05:16:30,000 --> 05:16:38,180
I want the second piece of this bill that causes me professional concern is the suggestion that LGBT foster and

3747
05:16:38,180 --> 05:16:45,480
adopted families could be rejected by taxpayer-funded foster and adoption agencies solely on the basis of their sexuality or gender identity.

3748
05:16:45,900 --> 05:16:48,660
There are around a half a million kids in foster care in this country.

3749
05:16:49,200 --> 05:16:56,540
According to the Columbia School of Law Policy, research portal 75 reputable studies have found that children adopted by same-sex couples

3750
05:16:56,540 --> 05:17:00,020
fair no worse than children adopted by heterosexual couples.

3751
05:17:00,460 --> 05:17:05,440
In fact, a report released by the American Academy of Pediatrics, which reviewed three decades of research

3752
05:17:05,440 --> 05:17:07,840
on the children of gay and lesbian couples,

3753
05:17:08,220 --> 05:17:09,840
shows that those children showed resilience

3754
05:17:09,840 --> 05:17:11,520
with regard to social and psychological

3755
05:17:11,520 --> 05:17:14,320
and sexual health despite the economic

3756
05:17:14,320 --> 05:17:16,240
and legal disparities in social stigma.

3757
05:17:17,240 --> 05:17:20,020
I want to share two stories about two kids

3758
05:17:20,020 --> 05:17:21,000
I worked with in treatment.

3759
05:17:21,820 --> 05:17:23,120
The first I'll call Dominique.

3760
05:17:24,040 --> 05:17:26,880
When she came to us, she had been horribly abused

3761
05:17:26,880 --> 05:17:28,560
by the people she should have been able to trust,

3762
05:17:29,220 --> 05:17:31,160
to say that she struggled in her relationships

3763
05:17:31,160 --> 05:17:33,340
with peers and caregivers would be an understatement.

3764
05:17:33,340 --> 05:17:39,380
She was prone to violence, depression, and self-harm, and had disrupted from multiple foster homes.

3765
05:17:40,400 --> 05:17:45,300
And I'd like to add that we did not know when Dominique came to us at 13 that she was a lesbian.

3766
05:17:45,680 --> 05:17:46,700
I'm not sure that she knew that.

3767
05:17:47,800 --> 05:17:53,360
When 16-year-old Dominique identified as a lesbian and asked to be endating a school friend, she was supported.

3768
05:17:54,220 --> 05:17:59,440
Over time, Dominique's relationship with her girlfriend developed into a loving, emotionally positive relationship.

3769
05:17:59,440 --> 05:18:04,980
relationship. In my work, we call this a corrective emotional experience. These kinds of positive

3770
05:18:04,980 --> 05:18:09,800
relational experiences are sometimes the keys that allow kids to begin to trust again. House

3771
05:18:09,800 --> 05:18:14,720
bill 3859 could have denied dominating the opportunity to experience this very healing

3772
05:18:15,220 --> 05:18:20,060
connection by requiring her to deny a part of her identity in order to remain in a taxpayer

3773
05:18:20,740 --> 05:18:26,960
funded foster home. The second story has a more unfortunate outcome. Joe was born Josephine

3774
05:18:26,960 --> 05:18:28,180
but identified as a boy.

3775
05:18:28,840 --> 05:18:30,020
When he came to the treatment center,

3776
05:18:30,240 --> 05:18:32,360
he had been rejected by 52 placements.

3777
05:18:33,060 --> 05:18:35,260
Despite years of rejection, Joe had a sense of humor,

3778
05:18:35,520 --> 05:18:36,940
and he was popular with the other kids.

3779
05:18:37,560 --> 05:18:40,680
Beneath that, however, Joe was seriously emotionally hurting.

3780
05:18:41,300 --> 05:18:43,560
He frequently acknowledged that he hated himself

3781
05:18:43,560 --> 05:18:45,680
and made multiple serious suicide attempts.

3782
05:18:46,320 --> 05:18:49,720
Consider being rejected by 52 different groups of people

3783
05:18:50,460 --> 05:18:53,240
who were supposed to support you and love you

3784
05:18:53,800 --> 05:18:54,900
like you were their own.

3785
05:18:55,440 --> 05:19:05,400
House bill 3859 says it is okay for a taxpayer funded organization to say, sorry Doe, we have a certain moral standard for how a person should dress.

3786
05:19:06,160 --> 05:19:10,380
You don't look quite right to us, we can't help you find a place to call home.

3787
05:19:11,240 --> 05:19:21,320
I don't think that anyone would suggest that it would be worth it to allow programs to discriminate on a person on the base of color because we all need all hands on deck.

3788
05:19:21,320 --> 05:19:31,380
All right, but I don't think that you would have to look far to find religious groups who would love to justify racial discrimination.

3789
05:19:32,080 --> 05:19:32,780
Thank you.

3790
05:19:33,260 --> 05:19:37,800
I don't believe that's what this bill is about at all, but I thank you for your testimony.

3791
05:19:40,740 --> 05:19:46,500
Mark, so, so do the interview here represent himself, speak against the bill.

3792
05:19:46,500 --> 05:19:47,480
Good

3793
05:19:49,750 --> 05:19:59,610
afternoon, everyone. My name is Mark Sutherland-Travillo. I'm a former foster parent and I'm here representing myself today to speak against House Bill 38-59.

3794
05:20:00,430 --> 05:20:29,170
Hopefully I got that right. I have a personal story for you. Approximately year 2001, my husband and I have now 30 years were rejected by a San Antonio foster agency after four months of classes because of their deeply held religious beliefs. So luckily for the 30 foster children that came through our home in the following years and the seven children that we eventually adopted, we did not give up and found another agency that would help us.

3795
05:20:29,170 --> 05:20:37,550
I think that personally we are steadfast in that, and we wanted that, I'm afraid that

3796
05:20:37,550 --> 05:20:41,670
other foster families would have given up, potential foster parents would have given

3797
05:20:41,670 --> 05:20:41,870
up.

3798
05:20:42,310 --> 05:20:47,590
We've heard several people today, several witnesses come to the podium and testify

3799
05:20:48,090 --> 05:20:53,610
that they have a sincere desire to help more children if only, if only their religious

3800
05:20:53,610 --> 05:20:55,670
beliefs are respected.

3801
05:20:55,670 --> 05:21:00,650
I have, I'm seriously confused about how this constitutes what's in the best interest

3802
05:21:00,650 --> 05:21:01,250
of a child.

3803
05:21:01,710 --> 05:21:06,390
These abuse children don't care what we believe or what I believe, they only want love

3804
05:21:06,390 --> 05:21:06,950
and safety.

3805
05:21:07,590 --> 05:21:12,290
When we put people in boxes, we divide ourselves instead of working together for this somewhat

3806
05:21:13,270 --> 05:21:16,530
gray concept of what the best interest of the child is.

3807
05:21:17,050 --> 05:21:22,270
Having a foster care provider for over 12 years, I have always put my personal agenda aside

3808
05:21:22,270 --> 05:21:26,130
And holy acted in the best interest of the child, whether I agreed with it or not.

3809
05:21:27,630 --> 05:21:33,630
There are times when if my 12-year-old foster daughter needed an abortion, and I didn't

3810
05:21:33,630 --> 05:21:37,130
believe an abortion, that there was always someone else there to handle that for me.

3811
05:21:37,810 --> 05:21:42,890
If they needed to go to a church that I didn't go to, I was contractually obligated to take

3812
05:21:42,890 --> 05:21:46,190
them to that church, and make sure that that service was provided for them, even though

3813
05:21:46,190 --> 05:21:47,990
I may not agree with that service for them.

3814
05:21:47,990 --> 05:21:54,650
Therefore, I urge you to, I strongly urge you to vote no for this bill when the opportunity comes to you.

3815
05:21:54,950 --> 05:21:55,450
Thank you.

3816
05:21:55,930 --> 05:21:56,410
Any questions?

3817
05:21:57,810 --> 05:21:58,930
There was any questions.

3818
05:21:59,530 --> 05:22:01,670
Thank you for your testimony, thank you for being here.

3819
05:22:02,990 --> 05:22:09,730
Whitney Peake, Whitney Peake, I have representing herself.

3820
05:22:10,410 --> 05:22:16,270
She'll Whitney Peake, represent herself not testifying against the bill.

3821
05:22:16,270 --> 05:22:24,050
Vickie Vogel, Vickie Vogel, I'd be representing yourself against the bill.

3822
05:22:26,160 --> 05:22:26,830
Thank you.

3823
05:22:27,270 --> 05:22:33,770
My name is Vickie Vogel, I'm speaking for myself, and I'm against Bill 3859.

3824
05:22:34,430 --> 05:22:43,190
I'm old enough to remember when bathrooms and drinking fountains had signs on them white and colored.

3825
05:22:43,190 --> 05:22:49,650
And in 1957, in the mid-60s, we started legislating against discrimination.

3826
05:22:50,290 --> 05:22:55,770
And for reasons I don't understand, we seem to be walking backwards and now trying

3827
05:22:55,770 --> 05:22:58,250
to institutionalize discrimination.

3828
05:22:59,250 --> 05:23:00,990
I'm a retired attorney.

3829
05:23:01,810 --> 05:23:05,490
I've dealt with children who were caught up in the legal system.

3830
05:23:06,170 --> 05:23:11,810
And our guiding principle was always the best interest of the child, not the interest

3831
05:23:11,810 --> 05:23:14,130
and beliefs of a state contractor.

3832
05:23:15,030 --> 05:23:21,770
We have watched while children have suffered abuse, neglect, and even death because child

3833
05:23:21,770 --> 05:23:25,430
protective services was underfunded and overworked.

3834
05:23:27,260 --> 05:23:34,740
If we are unwilling to provide them adequate funding, can we at least not arbitrarily restrict

3835
05:23:34,740 --> 05:23:41,000
the number of loving families who could provide a safe haven for these at-risk children?

3836
05:23:41,000 --> 05:23:48,060
Many of the discriminatory bills filed this session do so under the guise of religion.

3837
05:23:48,500 --> 05:23:49,600
I'm a Jew.

3838
05:23:50,540 --> 05:23:57,520
My religion teaches that all religions are equally valid, and it's not my place to impose

3839
05:23:57,520 --> 05:24:04,620
my religious views on others, nor is it the place of the legislature to impose views on others.

3840
05:24:06,220 --> 05:24:08,160
This is not a theocracy.

3841
05:24:08,160 --> 05:24:16,900
When religion is used as a weapon to discriminate against others, it's morally wrong, it's economically

3842
05:24:16,900 --> 05:24:24,600
unsound and ultimately destructive of our freedom. It's a perversion of the purpose of religion.

3843
05:24:25,320 --> 05:24:34,540
One cannot pick and choose which laws to obey and say it's for religious reasons. That's a road to chaos.

3844
05:24:34,540 --> 05:24:38,700
I urge you to reject House Bill 3859.

3845
05:24:39,260 --> 05:24:40,040
Thank you.

3846
05:24:40,460 --> 05:24:41,780
Thank you for your testimony.

3847
05:24:44,630 --> 05:24:53,470
Alfred Bleecker, I have Alfred Bleecker representing himself show them for the bill not testifying.

3848
05:24:55,520 --> 05:24:59,500
Mary Harris, Mary Harris.

3849
05:25:00,000 --> 05:25:25,500
Mary Harris representing TFN and sale against the bill. We sure against the bill not testifying. Chuck Freeman. Chuck Freeman takes his unitarian universalist, justice, ministry, and sale. I recognize that you from last week against the bill. I'm wearing the same thing, are you? No.

3850
05:25:28,060 --> 05:25:30,780
I didn't wash it though, I did wash it.

3851
05:25:31,400 --> 05:25:33,140
Okay, great to see you again.

3852
05:25:35,520 --> 05:25:40,520
Reverend Chuck Freeman, I am the executive director of the Texas Unitarian Universalist

3853
05:25:40,520 --> 05:25:47,820
Justice Minister, representing 34 congregations and 5,000 Unitarian Universalists I am speaking

3854
05:25:48,620 --> 05:25:49,800
against this bill.

3855
05:25:53,730 --> 05:25:57,110
I'm speaking for on behalf of yourself as well.

3856
05:25:57,770 --> 05:25:59,090
Is that permissible?

3857
05:25:59,650 --> 05:26:00,930
I didn't know what to check, I just-

3858
05:26:00,930 --> 05:26:01,450
Yeah, you're fine.

3859
05:26:01,930 --> 05:26:02,070
Okay.

3860
05:26:06,380 --> 05:26:13,080
Would any of you vote for this bill if it allowed religious institution to

3861
05:26:13,080 --> 05:26:15,720
refuse services on the basis of race?

3862
05:26:19,270 --> 05:26:19,530
Anybody?

3863
05:26:22,910 --> 05:26:24,850
We ask the question here, okay.

3864
05:26:25,150 --> 05:26:27,270
All right, that's rhetorical, that's a preacher thing.

3865
05:26:27,270 --> 05:26:31,470
That's a mature. That's a preacher pause. Okay.

3866
05:26:35,260 --> 05:26:40,340
Are you aware that before 1964 that was the

3867
05:26:40,340 --> 05:26:44,440
deeply held religious belief of the majority of America?

3868
05:26:49,170 --> 05:26:51,430
So what we're asking now is

3869
05:26:53,440 --> 05:26:53,960
for people

3870
05:26:53,960 --> 05:27:03,940
that have deeply held religious beliefs that violate the laws of our land. They can have a car about

3871
05:27:03,940 --> 05:27:07,540
under that auspices.

3872
05:27:12,160 --> 05:27:13,900
So we're going to have a two tiered system

3873
05:27:15,200 --> 05:27:18,280
where some people under the guise of religion can say

3874
05:27:18,280 --> 05:27:22,960
I can do something because it violates my beliefs.

3875
05:27:25,240 --> 05:27:27,900
I don't think there's any coincidence

3876
05:27:28,860 --> 05:27:31,360
that these bills are coming up now

3877
05:27:31,360 --> 05:27:34,800
after the Supreme Court ruled that same sex marriage

3878
05:27:34,800 --> 05:27:37,640
is now permissible in the law of the land.

3879
05:27:38,920 --> 05:27:47,620
I knew, I told myself and all of my people, you watch it in the next legislature, they're

3880
05:27:47,620 --> 05:27:51,720
going to start putting bills forward that can carve this stuff out.

3881
05:27:53,910 --> 05:27:59,010
So if in fact it's not designed for that, you have a simple remedy.

3882
05:27:59,950 --> 05:28:09,710
Put in the legislation, sexual orientation, and then we'll know for sure, that's your

3883
05:28:09,710 --> 05:28:14,950
intent. Your intent is for no one to be discriminated against.

3884
05:28:18,540 --> 05:28:22,540
I urge you to vote against this bill

3885
05:28:23,560 --> 05:28:29,000
unless you're willing to put that into it. Thank you. Thank you. Members, any questions?

3886
05:28:29,760 --> 05:28:33,220
No questions? Carissa Baldwin McGinnis? Yes,

3887
05:28:38,150 --> 05:28:38,810
I have a

3888
05:28:41,210 --> 05:28:45,110
reverend Carissa Baldwin McGinnis,

3889
05:28:45,110 --> 05:28:49,030
Reptile herself, and is this Episcopal Church?

3890
05:28:50,270 --> 05:28:52,350
Okay, yes, go ahead.

3891
05:28:52,590 --> 05:28:52,930
Thank you.

3892
05:28:53,510 --> 05:28:58,410
I am Carissa Baldwin McGinnis, I am a constituent from the Houston area.

3893
05:28:58,890 --> 05:29:03,130
Speaking on behalf of myself, I didn't rent this get up.

3894
05:29:03,210 --> 05:29:05,390
I happen to be a priest in the Episcopal Church.

3895
05:29:05,570 --> 05:29:09,270
My family is also part of the fabric of the foster and

3896
05:29:09,270 --> 05:29:11,230
adoptive community here in the state of Texas.

3897
05:29:12,170 --> 05:29:19,530
I am speaking in opposition to the bill for a number of reasons, but I will lift up to chiefly.

3898
05:29:19,930 --> 05:29:26,990
I first want to appreciate and agree with the sponsor that as a foster parent and

3899
05:29:26,990 --> 05:29:32,850
an adoptive parent we need as many on ramps for people to become foster and adoptive parents as possible.

3900
05:29:33,650 --> 05:29:41,730
A chief concern that I have as a clergywoman and a foster parent is that I don't see an

3901
05:29:41,730 --> 05:29:46,510
apparent alignment in this legislation with a separation of church and state, which is

3902
05:29:46,510 --> 05:29:53,950
to say that it's my understanding that any private agency that wishes to serve only a

3903
05:29:53,950 --> 05:29:59,990
certain population may do so if they are doing only private adoptions or doing

3904
05:30:00,000 --> 05:30:29,580
Private foster care. But if, in fact, they are stewarding cases of the state, words of the state, and money of the state, to me, that is a different, that is a separate category of services, and that agencies who are sort of functioning as the state in that way, shall not discriminate in the services they provide, or the potential parents they work with, in any way that differs from what CPS is allowed to do. So for me,

3905
05:30:29,580 --> 05:30:34,000
That's as clergywoman, that separation is really important, and I don't see it in this bill.

3906
05:30:35,520 --> 05:30:43,600
My second primary concern is that while I very much appreciate the stated intent and

3907
05:30:43,600 --> 05:30:50,380
the point to mechanisms, we're trying to guarantee an ensure lack of discrimination.

3908
05:30:50,380 --> 05:30:52,780
I find them to be incomplete and somewhat inconsistent.

3909
05:30:52,780 --> 05:31:00,400
So the proposals that you've heard to extend the list of sub-populations and classes that

3910
05:31:00,400 --> 05:31:06,180
can't be discriminated against should include, for me, sexual orientation that would make

3911
05:31:06,180 --> 05:31:07,720
this more acceptable to me.

3912
05:31:08,500 --> 05:31:14,400
And I would simply lift up to the sponsor that observing that in an area where there's

3913
05:31:14,400 --> 05:31:20,000
only one service provider does not provide, does not guarantee that all people can participate

3914
05:31:20,000 --> 05:31:21,380
in the foster system.

3915
05:31:21,380 --> 05:31:29,400
We make a mistake to assume that in an area where there were two or three service providers that we suddenly have somehow a complete set of on-ramps.

3916
05:31:29,560 --> 05:31:30,800
I think that that's an oversight.

3917
05:31:30,960 --> 05:31:39,140
I think that that's not necessarily a dependable assumption and I would invite the authors to consider that problem.

3918
05:31:39,500 --> 05:31:39,820
Thank you.

3919
05:31:40,120 --> 05:31:45,040
I just want to make sure for the records, you're representing yourself.

3920
05:31:45,040 --> 05:31:45,520
All right.

3921
05:31:45,860 --> 05:31:46,120
Okay.

3922
05:31:46,260 --> 05:31:46,960
Thank you.

3923
05:31:48,240 --> 05:31:48,660
Stephanie Cooper.

3924
05:31:50,600 --> 05:31:52,400
Reverend Stephanie Cooper.

3925
05:31:55,400 --> 05:31:56,140
Okay.

3926
05:31:56,240 --> 05:31:56,960
We'll show her.

3927
05:31:57,200 --> 05:31:59,160
Did not testify against the bill.

3928
05:32:00,900 --> 05:32:01,680
Karen Darby.

3929
05:32:03,440 --> 05:32:04,260
Karen Darby.

3930
05:32:06,530 --> 05:32:07,420
We'll show her.

3931
05:32:08,080 --> 05:32:09,860
Did not testify against the bill.

3932
05:32:11,670 --> 05:32:12,720
Chessie human.

3933
05:32:16,010 --> 05:32:17,850
First Liberty Institute.

3934
05:32:18,630 --> 05:32:19,750
Far the bill.

3935
05:32:19,750 --> 05:32:20,630
Mr.

3936
05:32:22,800 --> 05:32:29,020
Chair and members of the committee, my name is Chelsea Yeoman, and I'm an attorney with First Liberty Institute out of Plano, Texas.

3937
05:32:29,520 --> 05:32:38,740
I'm here to testify on behalf of our faith-based child welfare provider, Clients, whose religious liberty rights would be affected by HB3859.

3938
05:32:39,400 --> 05:32:45,020
Faith-based child welfare providers represent approximately 25% of child welfare providers.

3939
05:32:45,020 --> 05:32:46,080
Can I excuse you for a minute?

3940
05:32:46,200 --> 05:32:50,740
I've got you testifying for First Liberty Institute, okay?

3941
05:32:51,040 --> 05:32:51,340
That's great.

3942
05:32:51,500 --> 05:32:52,900
So that's who we have to test for.

3943
05:32:53,160 --> 05:32:53,380
I have.

3944
05:32:55,730 --> 05:33:02,150
Every year, thousands of single mothers and displaced children seek refuge in faith-based adoption and foster care agencies.

3945
05:33:02,650 --> 05:33:09,230
And every year, First Liberty Institute receives emails and telephone calls from these welfare providers seeking legal help.

3946
05:33:09,670 --> 05:33:16,390
At an exponentially increasing rate, we are contacted by faith-based providers across the country who face not only

3947
05:33:16,390 --> 05:33:21,390
threats of legal liability, but loss of licensure, loss of funding, and loss of government

3948
05:33:21,390 --> 05:33:24,470
contracts because of their longstanding religious beliefs.

3949
05:33:25,090 --> 05:33:30,610
When faced with these obstacles and risks, and without protections like HB3859 affords,

3950
05:33:31,170 --> 05:33:33,350
many faith-based providers are forced to close their doors.

3951
05:33:34,010 --> 05:33:39,330
Large-scale faith-based providers were forced to cease all adoption foster operations in

3952
05:33:39,330 --> 05:33:42,690
Massachusetts, Illinois, California, and the District of Columbia.

3953
05:33:42,690 --> 05:33:48,030
While these are a few of the public examples of large-scale faith-based organization ceasing

3954
05:33:48,030 --> 05:33:53,010
to perform these critical services, First Liberty knows of numerous small-scale providers

3955
05:33:53,010 --> 05:33:55,190
who have quietly had to exit the field.

3956
05:33:55,590 --> 05:34:01,170
Simply put, the aforementioned legal risk fall hardest on smaller agencies who rely on

3957
05:34:01,170 --> 05:34:03,090
donations and government contract work.

3958
05:34:03,630 --> 05:34:08,170
The results are devastating, not just because these well-meaning providers face retribution

3959
05:34:08,170 --> 05:34:13,290
for their beliefs, but because children are becoming the silent victims of a culture battle.

3960
05:34:14,110 --> 05:34:18,210
A brief note on the law, it is customary in American history to protect

3961
05:34:18,210 --> 05:34:23,030
conscientious dissenters. As noticed in First Liberty Institute's recent Amicus brief,

3962
05:34:23,370 --> 05:34:28,410
signed by 43 members of Congress, federal, state, and territorial governments have enacted

3963
05:34:28,410 --> 05:34:36,210
over 180 conscientious exemptions for religious dissenters who cannot in good conscience

3964
05:34:36,210 --> 05:34:40,890
participants participate in things like military service, capital punishment, abortion,

3965
05:34:41,350 --> 05:34:43,910
euthanasia, and assisted suicide.

3966
05:34:44,470 --> 05:34:48,670
In short, exceptions are not the exception in American experience.

3967
05:34:49,870 --> 05:34:54,370
As an example, for 30 years following Roe v. Wade, legislators established an equilibrium

3968
05:34:54,370 --> 05:34:59,690
between protecting the fundamental right to abortion and religious liberty rights of conscientious

3969
05:34:59,690 --> 05:34:59,890
subject.

3970
05:35:00,000 --> 05:35:29,720
And in response, the Supreme Court repeatedly held that the substantive due process right to abortion does not include the right to force taxpayers or conscience objectors to participate in abortion related services. See, bill, mayor, polgar, Harris and Webster. Like Rovers' way, the Supreme Court's decision in Obergefell will not change the fact that religious adherence will continue to exercise their sincere religious beliefs. Just as Kennedy specifically recognized this when he held

3971
05:35:29,720 --> 05:35:41,460
The first amendment ensures that religious organizations and persons are given proper protection as they seek to teach the principles that are so fulfilling and so central to their lives.

3972
05:35:41,900 --> 05:35:49,000
Our longstanding history and jurisprudence continually affirms exemptions like HB 3859 for conscientious objectors.

3973
05:35:49,760 --> 05:35:52,440
Thank you very much, members, any questions, no questions.

3974
05:35:53,720 --> 05:35:54,780
Frank Rand,

3975
05:35:58,380 --> 05:35:58,960
is it Ryan?

3976
05:36:04,630 --> 05:36:13,950
Okay, for the bill not testifying, mandy moody, mandy moody against the bill not testifying,

3977
05:36:17,090 --> 05:36:24,170
ash hall, quality Texas itself against the bill.

3978
05:36:27,430 --> 05:36:29,290
Thank you, chairman and committee.

3979
05:36:29,690 --> 05:36:30,770
My name is ash hall.

3980
05:36:30,770 --> 05:36:37,390
I represent equality, Texas, and myself, and I am testifying against House Bill 3859.

3981
05:36:39,250 --> 05:36:43,910
So, this bill allows faith-based agencies or employees and agencies to refuse service

3982
05:36:43,910 --> 05:36:46,750
based on sincerely held religious beliefs.

3983
05:36:48,590 --> 05:36:53,490
My belief is that the only consideration of a child welfare agency should be the best interest

3984
05:36:53,490 --> 05:36:59,490
of the child, not necessarily the religious beliefs of a child welfare service provider.

3985
05:36:59,490 --> 05:37:06,690
and by allowing providers to refuse service to potentially fit and loving parents,

3986
05:37:07,050 --> 05:37:14,270
if those parents happen to be LGBT for example, or single or divorced or you name it,

3987
05:37:14,370 --> 05:37:18,090
that kind of automatically goes against the best interest of the child

3988
05:37:18,090 --> 05:37:20,890
because that keeps that child in the system for longer.

3989
05:37:21,770 --> 05:37:25,770
If Caldwell being and permanency are the goals of child welfare service providers,

3990
05:37:25,770 --> 05:37:32,250
then those providers have an obligation to make sure children are placed with competent, loving parents as soon as possible,

3991
05:37:32,570 --> 05:37:37,050
rather than waiting for parents of the same quality that also happen to agree with their religious beliefs.

3992
05:37:38,110 --> 05:37:48,110
So, this bill automatically kind of undermines the Texas legislature's priority of fixing our CPS system, which we can all agree is in crisis,

3993
05:37:48,830 --> 05:37:53,550
because what we're doing when we allow for these refuses is we're keeping kids in these systems for longer,

3994
05:37:53,550 --> 05:37:59,890
because they have to wait that much longer for parents that the child welfare service providers

3995
05:37:59,890 --> 05:38:05,330
agree with on terms of religious values and not necessarily whether or not those parents

3996
05:38:05,870 --> 05:38:11,110
could actually care for and love those children regardless of what their sexual orientation,

3997
05:38:11,650 --> 05:38:18,090
gender identity, or religion happens to be. And I do think it's really interesting that within

3998
05:38:18,090 --> 05:38:24,250
In this bill, there are carvots in this saying that we should not be using these refusals

3999
05:38:24,250 --> 05:38:28,050
to discriminate on the basis of race or ethnicity or national origin.

4000
05:38:29,030 --> 05:38:34,370
If this bill is indeed not about discrimination, then I don't see what the problem is in adding

4001
05:38:34,370 --> 05:38:39,350
language that says we can't discriminate against people on the basis of sexual orientation, gender

4002
05:38:39,350 --> 05:38:41,030
identity, and religion as well.

4003
05:38:41,670 --> 05:38:45,910
After all, if we really are prioritizing the best interests of the child over anything else,

4004
05:38:45,910 --> 05:38:49,730
We would need to keep those protections in there because that's going to keep our pool

4005
05:38:49,730 --> 05:38:55,530
of parents that can help get these kids out of the system in there and that gets them

4006
05:38:55,530 --> 05:38:56,550
out of the system faster.

4007
05:38:57,810 --> 05:39:03,670
It's also worth mentioning that research is showing that LGBT parents are actually more

4008
05:39:03,670 --> 05:39:09,170
likely than heterosexual or non-transgender parents to adopt older special needs and minority

4009
05:39:09,170 --> 05:39:14,330
children who are also known as priority or hard to place children by folks that work

4010
05:39:14,330 --> 05:39:20,850
in the system. So you've talked a little bit about wanting positive solutions to the problems

4011
05:39:20,850 --> 05:39:27,130
that this legislator faces. My solution is going to always be to keep your heart and

4012
05:39:27,130 --> 05:39:32,610
mind open and include LGBT people in any solutions that you have for problems that are facing

4013
05:39:32,610 --> 05:39:33,050
our kids.

4014
05:39:34,190 --> 05:39:39,250
You know what's interesting? I appreciate you being here. We actually did that in 2003.

4015
05:39:39,250 --> 05:39:52,550
In 2003, I was on this committee in my first term, and we made the determination when a bill came up to ban a same-sex adoption, we did not pass that bill.

4016
05:39:52,550 --> 05:39:59,990
You know the reason we didn't pass that bill was that we this committee didn't act on it as we found that it...

4017
05:40:00,000 --> 05:40:14,460
These same-sex couples were adopting children with special needs, by racial handicaps, and so we recognize

4018
05:40:14,460 --> 05:40:19,820
that. So we've actually been very thoughtful on this. And once again, if you think about this bill,

4019
05:40:20,020 --> 05:40:29,220
what you're doing is you're adding to the pool of folks that can actually provide the foster

4020
05:40:29,220 --> 05:40:34,920
or service, which is why I've kind of scratched my head on some of the statements against it.

4021
05:40:35,000 --> 05:40:39,280
But anyway, I appreciate you being here and I appreciate your testimony.

4022
05:40:39,280 --> 05:40:42,420
And I think this committee has always been very thoughtful on these issues.

4023
05:40:42,660 --> 05:40:43,620
So thank you very much.

4024
05:40:43,800 --> 05:40:44,160
I agree.

4025
05:40:44,640 --> 05:40:45,120
I just hope.

4026
05:40:46,380 --> 05:40:55,060
I mean, I think there's something to be said about the fact that folks are saying that if they can't refuse to serve certain people,

4027
05:40:55,060 --> 05:40:58,640
that they're just going to drop serving children all together.

4028
05:40:59,240 --> 05:41:01,020
I think that's problematic, sir.

4029
05:41:03,080 --> 05:41:11,440
Once again, I think there's been some struggling with what this bill does.

4030
05:41:11,560 --> 05:41:16,160
But I appreciate you being here and for your testimony, and I'm going to go ahead and call the next witness, okay?

4031
05:41:16,280 --> 05:41:16,820
Appreciate you, too.

4032
05:41:17,160 --> 05:41:17,280
Yes.

4033
05:41:17,480 --> 05:41:17,760
Thank you.

4034
05:41:18,540 --> 05:41:19,420
Justin, Benavides.

4035
05:41:19,420 --> 05:41:26,300
Justine Benavides, justine Benavides, we'll show her against the bill not testifying

4036
05:41:30,330 --> 05:41:42,290
Larry Bathoon, Larry Bathoon, she'll Larry against the bill not testifying Vanessa McDougall.

4037
05:41:45,980 --> 05:41:47,080
She didn't give me a chance.

4038
05:41:48,340 --> 05:41:55,700
So, her against the bill not testifying Candace Aelor, if

4039
05:42:04,690 --> 05:42:10,270
you rest your self and against the bill, but if you'll go ahead and.

4040
05:42:11,130 --> 05:42:18,070
Thank you, my name is Candace Aelor and I'm testifying against House Bill 3859, representing yourself.

4041
05:42:18,070 --> 05:42:19,270
representing myself.

4042
05:42:21,870 --> 05:42:25,890
There's been a lot of testimony today that I agree with.

4043
05:42:26,670 --> 05:42:30,870
Pretty much all of the testimony against the bill I 100% agree with.

4044
05:42:33,430 --> 05:42:39,530
I am a children's mental health advocate and I've worked with parents trying to get placement for

4045
05:42:39,530 --> 05:42:47,250
their children with high needs for mental health care. I've worked with a parent whose daughter

4046
05:42:47,250 --> 05:42:55,150
was actually murdered by a foster parent due to lack of oversight of the foster placement

4047
05:42:55,150 --> 05:43:02,550
agencies, Texas Mentor, and as a result Cheryl Small was allowed to murder Alex Hill several

4048
05:43:02,550 --> 05:43:03,090
years ago.

4049
05:43:03,750 --> 05:43:10,270
So I have some experience not necessarily placing children but in understanding how the system

4050
05:43:10,270 --> 05:43:11,710
works to some extent.

4051
05:43:12,550 --> 05:43:17,670
It's my understanding there's over 10,000 children that are placed currently with LGBT

4052
05:43:17,670 --> 05:43:18,410
families.

4053
05:43:19,330 --> 05:43:27,150
There's a lot to talk about capacity, but if placing agencies are allowed to discriminate

4054
05:43:27,150 --> 05:43:35,110
against LGBT families based on their closely held religious belief that the LGBT parent

4055
05:43:35,110 --> 05:43:40,810
shouldn't be allowed to adopt children or foster children, then we are excluding the

4056
05:43:40,810 --> 05:43:45,490
the 10,000 plus that are currently in the care of LGBT families.

4057
05:43:47,450 --> 05:43:54,610
I have to take extreme exception to the testimony of one of the people, I don't remember his

4058
05:43:54,610 --> 05:43:58,490
name, but he was, I believe, a previous president of the board for boys, ranchers, and

4059
05:43:58,490 --> 05:43:58,850
like that.

4060
05:43:58,950 --> 05:44:03,970
He was talking about that organization being trauma informed and following evidence-based

4061
05:44:03,970 --> 05:44:08,830
practices and then followed up with, they would stop serving kids if this bill wasn't passed.

4062
05:44:08,830 --> 05:44:14,930
This is, I am one of the most trauma-informed parents in the state, I'm the co-chair of

4063
05:44:14,930 --> 05:44:18,570
the National Child Traumatic Stress Networks Partnering with Youth and Family Collaborative

4064
05:44:18,570 --> 05:44:18,890
Group.

4065
05:44:19,090 --> 05:44:23,470
I've been working on understanding trauma-informed system transformation and trauma-informed

4066
05:44:23,470 --> 05:44:29,730
care for several years, and I can tell you that there is absolutely nothing trauma-informed

4067
05:44:29,730 --> 05:44:37,290
or evidence-based about allowing an organization to prevent placement solely based on a religious

4068
05:44:37,290 --> 05:44:37,810
belief.

4069
05:44:37,810 --> 05:44:57,490
Those agencies should only be concerned with empowering the youth and helping them understand their beliefs and helping support them in the beliefs or existence that they have.

4070
05:44:57,490 --> 05:44:59,730
They should not be able to impose.

4071
05:45:00,000 --> 05:45:18,200
Their own beliefs by preventing placement, because they don't believe that it's okay to be gay. There's nothing evidence-based about that. So, that is my testimony, and if you have any questions, I'm happy to answer them. Thank you very much for your testimony. Mary, Christine Reid,

4072
05:45:29,950 --> 05:45:32,150
have you representing yourself against the bill?

4073
05:45:34,850 --> 05:45:40,610
I'm here on my personal capacity. My name is Mary Christine Reid.

4074
05:45:40,610 --> 05:45:46,090
I am an attorney who works with current and HL foster youth and am very familiar with

4075
05:45:46,090 --> 05:45:50,570
their experiences in foster care, both from the information they have provided me and

4076
05:45:50,570 --> 05:45:54,890
from reviewing their Child Protective Services records, something I help many young adult

4077
05:45:54,890 --> 05:45:56,150
former foster youth obtain.

4078
05:45:56,830 --> 05:46:02,950
I've seen that some foster youth place in a traditional foster home, choose to join the

4079
05:46:02,950 --> 05:46:07,230
family and the religious activity, and they are happy to participate, but you have to keep

4080
05:46:07,230 --> 05:46:10,570
Keep in mind, these are homes that leave it up to the youth to decide if they want to

4081
05:46:10,570 --> 05:46:11,830
participate in the religion.

4082
05:46:12,490 --> 05:46:16,350
I've also seen many youth who have been punished and mistreated because they are unhappy

4083
05:46:16,350 --> 05:46:23,190
about forced participation in their home or foster care facilities, religious activities that

4084
05:46:23,190 --> 05:46:27,570
they've been denied the right to practice their religion and rejected and removed from their

4085
05:46:27,570 --> 05:46:32,510
home because their placement is unhappy that the youth does not embrace their religious beliefs,

4086
05:46:32,510 --> 05:46:36,350
including one client who just contacted my office two days ago.

4087
05:46:37,070 --> 05:46:41,770
While much of this is considered to be a violation of the rights in a CPS licensing regulations,

4088
05:46:42,370 --> 05:46:46,410
the reality is that generally no action is taken against foster care providers,

4089
05:46:46,830 --> 05:46:49,870
and the usual solution is to just remove the use from the placement,

4090
05:46:50,130 --> 05:46:52,370
often at the insistence of the provider.

4091
05:46:53,170 --> 05:46:57,190
This legislation will provide further grounds for the already overwhelmed agency

4092
05:46:57,190 --> 05:47:01,250
to disregard the mistreatment of youth in the nominal name of the religious rights

4093
05:47:01,250 --> 05:47:03,310
of the child welfare service provider.

4094
05:47:03,970 --> 05:47:06,390
Youth and foster care have essentially no control

4095
05:47:06,390 --> 05:47:07,830
over their lives, where they live,

4096
05:47:08,030 --> 05:47:09,810
if they have contacts with siblings and families,

4097
05:47:10,250 --> 05:47:12,110
if they can participate in activities at school

4098
05:47:12,110 --> 05:47:13,010
or with a friend.

4099
05:47:13,550 --> 05:47:15,310
Most live in many different placements

4100
05:47:15,310 --> 05:47:16,830
during their time in foster care,

4101
05:47:17,050 --> 05:47:19,390
including facilities and large groups homes

4102
05:47:19,390 --> 05:47:21,030
with people they never knew before

4103
05:47:21,030 --> 05:47:23,490
and likely won't have contact with in six months.

4104
05:47:24,150 --> 05:47:26,670
This law was to jump them to even less autonomy

4105
05:47:27,150 --> 05:47:29,470
and lead to the violation of their religious rights.

4106
05:47:29,470 --> 05:47:33,330
I'm opposed to further harming this already vulnerable population.

4107
05:47:33,730 --> 05:47:34,490
Thank you.

4108
05:47:34,790 --> 05:47:36,210
Thank you for your testimony.

4109
05:47:36,970 --> 05:47:37,930
Susan Hayes.

4110
05:47:39,010 --> 05:47:43,390
How are you here representing herself against the bill?

4111
05:47:44,210 --> 05:47:45,730
Yes, thank you, Mr. Chairman.

4112
05:47:45,990 --> 05:47:51,990
Susan Hayes against the bill representing myself, and I'm going to explain to you why, because I fear that may disappoint you.

4113
05:47:53,050 --> 05:47:55,450
I have represented kids in foster care.

4114
05:47:57,110 --> 05:48:01,050
As recently as last year, I represented a teenager in foster care.

4115
05:48:01,330 --> 05:48:05,950
I also represented a two-year-old who was taken into the foster care system from the

4116
05:48:05,950 --> 05:48:09,410
FLDS compound in West Texas if some of you remember that incident.

4117
05:48:10,170 --> 05:48:14,950
I read this bill when I heard about it and looked at the language and had some deep concern

4118
05:48:14,950 --> 05:48:20,150
from how broadly it was written, particularly given my experience with the realities of

4119
05:48:20,150 --> 05:48:25,770
kids in our foster care system and their lack of access to any means to vindicate their

4120
05:48:25,770 --> 05:48:31,170
best interest and their lack of access to legal counsel because how isolating foster

4121
05:48:31,170 --> 05:48:37,090
care can be, we should be very careful how big and thick of a shield you construct around

4122
05:48:37,090 --> 05:48:43,370
foster care providers because we do know there's pretty wide scale abuse within the system whether

4123
05:48:43,370 --> 05:48:49,690
whether it's a secular placement or a religious placement and we do know religious organizations

4124
05:48:50,150 --> 05:48:54,930
are often too often the location of sex abuse of children.

4125
05:48:55,570 --> 05:49:02,830
I'm worried about when legislation like this is put in place and we already have a system

4126
05:49:02,830 --> 05:49:10,330
that is over tax to say the least employees of the state who are very skittish to say or

4127
05:49:10,330 --> 05:49:16,570
do anything that might upset the state's leaders or might cause controversy,

4128
05:49:17,010 --> 05:49:21,110
particularly when that comes to pregnant girls that are in the system and there's a significant

4129
05:49:21,110 --> 05:49:28,370
number of those. I have to say, I found it extremely disheartened to hear the representative

4130
05:49:28,370 --> 05:49:33,250
of the Catholic Bishop say they take care of refugees because they don't sue us, because I know

4131
05:49:33,250 --> 05:49:37,890
what's happened to the refugees who are coming across the border from Central America,

4132
05:49:37,890 --> 05:49:42,790
who have been subject to systematic rape at the hands of Gallaudetis or sucks trafficking

4133
05:49:42,790 --> 05:49:48,010
and arrive here pregnant and taken into what is essentially custody, whether it's in

4134
05:49:48,010 --> 05:49:51,890
a private care provider or with the federal government or put into foster care.

4135
05:49:52,330 --> 05:49:58,610
If they don't have access to a doctor to reproductive health care, they're forced to continue the

4136
05:49:58,610 --> 05:49:59,950
pregnancy and bear a rape.

4137
05:50:11,060 --> 05:50:25,320
I would like to read bill's very carefully and think about how they fit into the overall legislative scheme within our CPS statutes or our other child care statutes.

4138
05:50:27,220 --> 05:50:34,700
CPS currently by its own policies will not help someone in their care access abortion.

4139
05:50:35,900 --> 05:50:42,440
There was originally in chapter 33 of the family code some language that required CPS to

4140
05:50:42,440 --> 05:50:49,300
help adolescent girls who wanted to have abortions access the court system to get a judicial bypass.

4141
05:50:49,980 --> 05:50:54,740
This legislature removed that language last session in HB3994.

4142
05:50:55,420 --> 05:50:59,280
And I really wish I could see the committee substitute of this bill.

4143
05:50:59,480 --> 05:51:01,100
I'd like to look at the language.

4144
05:51:01,620 --> 05:51:07,440
I did notice in the current draft of the bill as introduced on page six of Section G,

4145
05:51:08,260 --> 05:51:09,980
there's some nice language.

4146
05:51:10,360 --> 05:51:15,800
This would not allow the child welfare services to deprive a minor of the rights, including the rights to medical care,

4147
05:51:15,800 --> 05:51:22,760
provided by chapters 33, 263, and 266, you left out chapter 33. I have a

4148
05:51:22,760 --> 05:51:29,900
whole lot more to say about this. I understand that. I will, like, you know,

4149
05:51:29,900 --> 05:51:34,840
any question, you came out again. Yeah, did you feel it? You feel it? And it's

4150
05:51:34,840 --> 05:51:39,760
also someone who's sat and talked to these kids and listened to what's happened

4151
05:51:39,760 --> 05:51:44,380
to them and listened to talk to a girl who was raped repeatedly in foster care

4152
05:51:44,380 --> 05:51:45,460
And no one helped.

4153
05:51:45,740 --> 05:51:46,760
And that's why we're here today.

4154
05:51:46,960 --> 05:51:48,880
And I really want to make that not happen again.

4155
05:51:49,320 --> 05:51:52,720
And that's why we put so much effort into this session.

4156
05:51:53,320 --> 05:51:53,940
Thank you, Susan.

4157
05:51:54,740 --> 05:51:55,180
Yeah, go ahead.

4158
05:51:55,660 --> 05:51:56,700
Now that we've been here a long time.

4159
05:51:57,120 --> 05:52:05,300
On the on CPS and their ability to come in, do you know in your experience then the process

4160
05:52:06,120 --> 05:52:12,020
if they were to come in in a case where sexual assault or whatever, is it up to the child to

4161
05:52:12,020 --> 05:52:17,920
call contact CPS, or do they do they come in pretty regularly?

4162
05:52:18,040 --> 05:52:19,420
I don't know the process, you know.

4163
05:52:19,700 --> 05:52:24,740
Well, in that case, the child has very little access to help, and I know you don't believe

4164
05:52:24,740 --> 05:52:28,500
me, Mr. Chairman, but I do see some middle ground in here with this bill and what we're

4165
05:52:28,500 --> 05:52:33,320
trying to accomplish and trying to shore up the weaknesses of the CPS system.

4166
05:52:35,100 --> 05:52:37,260
Children in the CPS system have a caseworker.

4167
05:52:37,980 --> 05:52:42,260
they have a guardian ad light, I'm usually from CASA, and they have an attorney ad light

4168
05:52:42,260 --> 05:52:47,720
I'm appointed by the courts. Case work return over is extremely high. As you know, probably

4169
05:52:47,720 --> 05:52:53,520
painfully aware from being on the joint committee, ad lightems can be a more consistent force, but

4170
05:52:53,520 --> 05:53:00,100
their access to the ad lightem may be limited. Can they get to a telephone? Where are they?

4171
05:53:00,420 --> 05:53:05,580
Are they in a place where they have access? I mean, I had a client who's in CPS care

4172
05:53:05,580 --> 05:53:15,260
who was a runaway, and she messaged me over social media and surfaced, but we don't

4173
05:53:15,260 --> 05:53:21,280
have safeguards built in. This bill might be a beautiful vehicle for safeguards, for

4174
05:53:21,280 --> 05:53:26,640
foster kids to have a way to reach out and ask for help, or have a way to reach out and

4175
05:53:26,640 --> 05:53:32,300
say I'm not comfortable here. And one other thing you have to remember about kids, the worst,

4176
05:53:32,300 --> 05:53:35,280
the abuse, the less likely it is they're going to speak up.

4177
05:53:36,380 --> 05:53:39,020
So the best interest of the child, don't we be keep talking about that?

4178
05:53:39,540 --> 05:53:43,840
So that's all seems to be just through case law and not so much that.

4179
05:53:43,840 --> 05:53:45,600
Well, it's two problems with it.

4180
05:53:46,340 --> 05:53:49,280
It's a right without a remedy from the point of view of the child.

4181
05:53:49,660 --> 05:53:52,900
And one thing that disturbed me about this bill is written and it can be written

4182
05:53:52,900 --> 05:53:53,820
rewritten beautifully.

4183
05:53:55,120 --> 05:53:58,260
It's all about the provider's rights and not the child's rights.

4184
05:53:59,460 --> 05:54:00,620
Yes, that's there.

4185
05:54:00,620 --> 05:54:06,440
But and here's another gap in our laws because again, I'm a nerd, I like to read them together

4186
05:54:07,640 --> 05:54:10,180
Parents have a duty to support their children until they're 18

4187
05:54:11,300 --> 05:54:16,540
But and I forget if it's 15 or 16 right in that age length and that's right about the time

4188
05:54:16,540 --> 05:54:19,240
LBGT kids may be getting kicked out of their homes

4189
05:54:19,920 --> 05:54:25,900
The child doesn't have a right to go force their parents to support them at all parents can throw out a children

4190
05:54:25,900 --> 05:54:27,820
They can be criminally prosecuted

4191
05:54:27,820 --> 05:54:32,140
but only until the child is in the middle of adolescence.

4192
05:54:32,320 --> 05:54:34,520
It's okay to kick your 17-year-old out in this state.

4193
05:54:35,040 --> 05:54:38,580
That's allowed, and CPS doesn't have any bandwidth for them.

4194
05:54:39,040 --> 05:54:43,120
So they end up on the streets, or they end up in a care situation where they're subject to sex abuse.

4195
05:54:44,460 --> 05:54:45,080
Thank you.

4196
05:54:45,320 --> 05:54:46,680
Thank you very much for your testimony.

4197
05:54:46,940 --> 05:54:53,180
Cecilia Wood, Center for Preservation American Ideal, here to speak for the bill.

4198
05:54:53,180 --> 05:54:59,940
Good evening chairman and committee my name is Cecilia Wood and I'm here

4199
05:55:00,000 --> 05:55:29,980
We're testifying today on behalf of the Center for the Preservation of American Ideals, and I believe myself as well, in favor of House Bill 3859. I've testified many times in this and other committees. As you know, I'm board certified in family law. I've practiced in that area for 30 years. And specifically, I've done many, many CPS cases representing foster parents, parents, and children. But I didn't come today with my big family code because I think

4200
05:55:29,980 --> 05:55:34,500
that everyone understands that you don't have to be an expert to know we need more foster

4201
05:55:34,500 --> 05:55:39,060
care homes and we need a variety of foster care homes for these children. Didn't bring

4202
05:55:39,060 --> 05:55:45,580
my calculator today because if you've got less than 100%, you take away 25%, then you're

4203
05:55:45,580 --> 05:55:51,200
going to have a whole lot less than 100%. And Mr. Chairman, I am not going to be a foster

4204
05:55:51,200 --> 05:55:57,060
parent. I'm 60 years old. I have 14 grandchildren and three great-grandchildren and they just keep

4205
05:55:57,060 --> 05:56:01,340
come in, and I just put together a little bed last night. We probably couldn't fit another

4206
05:56:01,340 --> 05:56:06,080
child in our home most nights, but I will tell you I've raised it. I've been responsible

4207
05:56:06,080 --> 05:56:11,740
for helping to raise at least one grand child or building into her life who intends to adopt

4208
05:56:11,740 --> 05:56:17,620
most of her children. So our family is very sincere in this, and what I wanted to talk to you and

4209
05:56:17,620 --> 05:56:23,900
to the people here today about is that for many, many people, I hope for myself, but for many here

4210
05:56:23,900 --> 05:56:29,300
in the committee and this capital that I know, our faith is who we are.

4211
05:56:29,860 --> 05:56:33,980
And you come to us and you come to people and you come to the faith community.

4212
05:56:34,600 --> 05:56:40,740
You ask us to open our homes and by limiting the ability to exercise our faith in doing that,

4213
05:56:41,380 --> 05:56:46,680
you are asking us to treat these children far less better than we would treat our own children

4214
05:56:46,680 --> 05:56:50,060
because that is how we learn to love and that is how we share.

4215
05:56:50,060 --> 05:56:53,780
and I wanted to share with you a personal experience

4216
05:56:53,780 --> 05:56:55,460
from the opposite side.

4217
05:56:55,980 --> 05:56:58,680
When my daughter was 15 years old, she was pregnant.

4218
05:56:59,420 --> 05:57:00,620
We went together.

4219
05:57:00,860 --> 05:57:03,200
We met families for an open adoption.

4220
05:57:03,820 --> 05:57:05,820
I was divorced at that time.

4221
05:57:06,020 --> 05:57:09,200
We were looking for a loving home for this child.

4222
05:57:09,600 --> 05:57:12,480
We found one accidentally through some friends.

4223
05:57:13,840 --> 05:57:18,060
And when my granddaughter was born, who incidentally happened to text me

4224
05:57:18,060 --> 05:57:23,500
While I was in this, and she knows I'm testifying about this, she's my oldest granddaughter,

4225
05:57:23,740 --> 05:57:30,980
she turned 27 yesterday, she changed her mind and told these people that she was going

4226
05:57:30,980 --> 05:57:31,780
to keep the baby.

4227
05:57:31,960 --> 05:57:32,840
We brought her home.

4228
05:57:33,420 --> 05:57:37,860
My youngest child was three and a half at that time and really didn't understand who

4229
05:57:37,860 --> 05:57:43,840
was mom or managing conservator and it was just another little baby in our home.

4230
05:57:44,360 --> 05:57:47,940
After six months, she came to me and she said, I've made a mistake.

4231
05:57:47,940 --> 05:57:54,300
I want to go to college. I'm not ready to be a mom. I said fine. I will, I'm

4232
05:57:54,300 --> 05:57:59,200
the managing conservator. I'll raise this child and she said, mom, I want my

4233
05:57:59,200 --> 05:58:05,600
baby to have a mom and a dad. Not because for any other reason, but that was

4234
05:58:05,600 --> 05:58:10,120
her sincere belief that that's what was best for this child. And although we

4235
05:58:10,120 --> 05:58:15,900
love this baby very much, we, I believe that was best too. So we contacted the

4236
05:58:15,900 --> 05:58:22,300
family and in less than a week we had the adoption consummated and we love that child

4237
05:58:22,300 --> 05:58:27,280
it's an open adoption she's a wonderful young woman but please know we come at this

4238
05:58:27,280 --> 05:58:32,700
very sincerely and not out of ill-willed towards any group. Thank you.

4239
05:58:56,520 --> 05:59:02,720
My name is Lauren Ferris. I'm with the Green Gender Education Network of Texas and myself and

4240
05:59:02,720 --> 05:59:06,660
and I am here in opposition to HB 3859.

4241
05:59:07,920 --> 05:59:11,140
I'd first like to start with a very friendly,

4242
05:59:11,260 --> 05:59:15,220
very soft reminder to representative Rodriguez.

4243
05:59:15,860 --> 05:59:17,700
And when we talk about adding sexual orientation,

4244
05:59:18,340 --> 05:59:20,640
we always include gender identity as well.

4245
05:59:22,140 --> 05:59:25,540
And secondly, we've talked about more

4246
05:59:26,120 --> 05:59:28,600
and the transgender education network of Texas

4247
05:59:28,600 --> 05:59:31,040
is working very hard to recruit parents.

4248
05:59:31,040 --> 05:59:43,180
We've recruited a number of transgender parents across the state of Texas even this month to ensure that we are well represented in the pool for adoptive parents.

4249
05:59:44,100 --> 05:59:59,920
And secondarily, on behalf of myself, I speak as a parent, both biological and adoptive as a mentor with the FBI.

4250
06:00:00,110 --> 06:00:29,350
And TJJD, as well as a child advocate. Because I think it's important that whenever we have a bill like this one, that we think not only about what it does, because we're all about having more in a very number of foster homes and foster agencies. We want to increase the number. But secondarily, we need to think about the secondary

4251
06:00:29,350 --> 06:00:31,710
of, secondarily, what happens.

4252
06:00:32,210 --> 06:00:37,110
The attorney general mentioned that if someone refused to do a particular kind of training,

4253
06:00:37,630 --> 06:00:45,390
then someone, I believe, he used the statistics 75% of agencies would cover anyone.

4254
06:00:45,910 --> 06:00:51,690
What about when those kids who are very young and they start coming out, then what happens?

4255
06:00:52,290 --> 06:00:59,330
If they're not trained on that coming out, one of the things we always talk about in the

4256
06:00:59,330 --> 06:01:04,690
happens to those kids when a kid comes out at home. And I want to talk a little bit about

4257
06:01:04,690 --> 06:01:12,650
my own daughter, who's now very healthy, wonderful, transgender woman, the age of 19, seeking

4258
06:01:12,650 --> 06:01:19,150
a higher education, that thankfully the people of the state will help before because she was

4259
06:01:19,150 --> 06:01:25,670
in foster care for so long. But what about her? When she came out to her parents, they wouldn't

4260
06:01:25,670 --> 06:01:31,390
sent her to school and they abused her, so she was removed from the home, but once

4261
06:01:31,390 --> 06:01:34,270
she got into foster care, then what happened?

4262
06:01:34,890 --> 06:01:36,350
In her case, it got worse.

4263
06:01:37,130 --> 06:01:38,170
She wound up on the streets.

4264
06:01:38,750 --> 06:01:45,010
My daughter spent at least nine months when she was 14 on the streets of San Antonio.

4265
06:01:45,710 --> 06:01:50,470
What's going to happen to these kids when they decide they need to come out and they're

4266
06:01:50,470 --> 06:01:52,590
in a place that rejects them?

4267
06:01:52,590 --> 06:02:00,210
I deal with so many runaways, I work with homeless youth as well, I'm a former assistant

4268
06:02:00,210 --> 06:02:03,530
director of the Thrive Youth Center in San Antonio.

4269
06:02:04,170 --> 06:02:05,010
What about those kids?

4270
06:02:05,610 --> 06:02:09,730
We have a very major trafficking problem in Texas.

4271
06:02:10,390 --> 06:02:14,670
Are we sensing some of these kids to the trafficking industry?

4272
06:02:32,940 --> 06:02:34,860
Everybody wants to put an end in my name.

4273
06:02:36,280 --> 06:02:37,140
That's no problem.

4274
06:02:37,640 --> 06:02:39,000
My name is Denise Brogan-Cater.

4275
06:02:39,000 --> 06:02:46,780
I am the State Policy Director for the Family Quality Council, and I'm here speaking on behalf of myself and

4276
06:02:46,780 --> 06:02:49,500
the Family Quality Council in opposition to 3859.

4277
06:02:50,680 --> 06:02:56,100
The Family Quality Council is strongly opposed to HB 3859 for some very good reasons.

4278
06:02:57,200 --> 06:03:03,340
There are reasons why so few states have passed such legislation around the country, it's just bad public policy.

4279
06:03:04,640 --> 06:03:07,180
This bill hides under two great lies.

4280
06:03:07,180 --> 06:03:10,540
The first lie is that it protects religious freedom.

4281
06:03:11,060 --> 06:03:13,080
But despite the protestations to the contrary,

4282
06:03:13,260 --> 06:03:14,900
the real effect of this bill is, in fact,

4283
06:03:15,140 --> 06:03:18,220
to protect discrimination against LGBT-headed families.

4284
06:03:18,820 --> 06:03:20,720
And it will drive them from the system.

4285
06:03:21,540 --> 06:03:23,240
Or else, what's the grounds for these lawsuits?

4286
06:03:24,200 --> 06:03:26,200
The second great lie is much more pernicious.

4287
06:03:27,180 --> 06:03:29,360
That is the lie that more children will be served

4288
06:03:29,360 --> 06:03:31,380
if we allow these agencies to discriminate.

4289
06:03:32,420 --> 06:03:35,700
Our experience and the data from around the nation

4290
06:03:35,700 --> 06:03:40,540
say that the opposite is actually true. The truth is that the reason we have 30,000 youth

4291
06:03:40,540 --> 06:03:45,560
in care and nearly 13,000 still awaiting adoption is because of a lack of families willing

4292
06:03:45,560 --> 06:03:51,440
to take on the amazing and loving task of fostering and adopting, not because of a lack of

4293
06:03:51,440 --> 06:03:57,040
agencies. In some states it is true that some non-discriminating agencies, some discriminating

4294
06:03:57,040 --> 06:04:01,460
agencies have left the marketplace, but they've always been replaced by agencies who do not

4295
06:04:01,460 --> 06:04:08,380
discriminate against anyone of any religion or belief system or sexual orientation.

4296
06:04:09,440 --> 06:04:13,120
In fact, Vanillanoi canceled its contract with Catholic Charities in 2012.

4297
06:04:13,660 --> 06:04:20,260
The percentage of adoptions performed by public welfare agencies in the state went up 4%.

4298
06:04:20,460 --> 06:04:24,420
The reasons are unclear, but the data argue against the idea that shuttering discriminatory

4299
06:04:24,420 --> 06:04:26,460
agencies reduces the number of placements.

4300
06:04:27,100 --> 06:04:33,960
LGBT couples adopt at a rate four times that of opposite sex couples and foster at a

4301
06:04:33,960 --> 06:04:36,220
rate of six times that of opposite sex couples.

4302
06:04:37,220 --> 06:04:40,680
We should try to recruit these families and not shut them out.

4303
06:04:41,640 --> 06:04:45,520
Doing so will leave these children subject to an increased risk of aging out of the system

4304
06:04:45,520 --> 06:04:50,900
and all the harms and costs to the state that associated therewith.

4305
06:04:51,200 --> 06:04:54,500
I urge you to vote against this bill and stand for the children of Texas.

4306
06:04:54,500 --> 06:04:56,720
Testimony.

4307
06:05:12,400 --> 06:05:12,940
We are.

4308
06:05:30,800 --> 06:05:37,680
Is there anyone else? It's registered to testify on four against the registered.

4309
06:05:44,540 --> 06:05:55,300
You've been here all day, so I suspect that's probably true. Richard Bates, retired clergy, and I'm testifying for myself against the bill.

4310
06:05:55,300 --> 06:06:04,920
So, I listened to the reading of the bill and it seemed very fair and open and I thought, wow, I may need to change my testimony.

4311
06:06:06,280 --> 06:06:12,120
I'm sorry, make sure we heard your name clearly so if you stay again, please for the right.

4312
06:06:13,520 --> 06:06:15,060
We're not showing you registered.

4313
06:06:16,360 --> 06:06:20,300
We need to get you registered, even if it's re-registered.

4314
06:06:29,460 --> 06:06:42,620
I have a bit of laryngitis. I hope you can hear me. I'm here representing myself. I'm an independent consultant for the Degree in Public Administration. I've been working in the field of child welfare for 18 years.

4315
06:06:42,620 --> 06:06:46,460
And have you testifying against the bill, is that correct?

4316
06:06:46,760 --> 06:06:49,140
Again, yes, against the bill, thank you.

4317
06:06:50,660 --> 06:06:58,060
I've worked with literally hundreds of agencies, including faith-based agencies all over the country, here in Texas and in other states.

4318
06:06:58,980 --> 06:07:01,980
I have specific areas of expertise in three areas.

4319
06:07:02,260 --> 06:07:05,320
One is the recruitment of foster and adoptive families.

4320
06:07:06,040 --> 06:07:10,400
The other is finding permanent homes for teens and adolescents in foster care.

4321
06:07:10,400 --> 06:07:16,040
And the third is working with agencies on the intersection of child welfare services

4322
06:07:16,040 --> 06:07:18,160
and LGBTQ population.

4323
06:07:19,300 --> 06:07:25,220
Most recently I've authored an 18-hour training curriculum for child welfare agencies

4324
06:07:25,220 --> 06:07:28,700
on how to work competently with the LGBT community.

4325
06:07:29,420 --> 06:07:34,500
And so part of my work is actually going in and working with social workers to train them

4326
06:07:34,960 --> 06:07:36,740
on LGBT competencies.

4327
06:07:36,740 --> 06:07:42,980
And so, I come face-to-face all the time with people whose religious beliefs are sometimes

4328
06:07:42,980 --> 06:07:47,900
in conflict with their professional responsibilities as a child welfare professional.

4329
06:07:48,880 --> 06:07:54,800
I believe that there is good intent behind this bill, but there is a very big difference

4330
06:07:54,800 --> 06:08:00,400
between intent and impact, and what I see in this kind of religious exemption and legislation

4331
06:08:00,400 --> 06:08:02,000
only hurts children.

4332
06:08:02,000 --> 06:08:30,620
At the heart of child welfare services, the commitment of each agency staff member to the safety permanency and well-being of every child and care, and I believe that they face agencies to allowing faith-based agencies to refuse services based on deep religious beliefs, creates an environment for these agencies to avoid facing things like sexual orientation, gender identity, and expression.

4333
06:08:30,620 --> 06:08:36,560
And sexual orientation, gender identity, and expression are things that we all have, all

4334
06:08:36,560 --> 06:08:43,820
of us, and even if they decide to refuse service to, for example, same-sex couples,

4335
06:08:44,000 --> 06:08:49,040
they cannot refuse service to children who identify as LGBTQ.

4336
06:08:50,000 --> 06:08:57,980
Those children make up over 20% of the foster care population and are at risk of experiencing

4337
06:08:57,980 --> 06:09:03,080
including bullying, harassment, and rejection at high levels, including eight times

4338
06:09:03,080 --> 06:09:08,160
the level of attempted suicide, six times the level of its severe depression,

4339
06:09:08,580 --> 06:09:12,140
and three times the level of illegal drug use and risk of HIV.

4340
06:09:12,740 --> 06:09:14,180
Thank you very much for your testimony.

4341
06:09:14,460 --> 06:09:14,600
Thank you.

4342
06:09:15,360 --> 06:09:16,160
Richard Bait.

4343
06:09:22,960 --> 06:09:23,600
Thank you.

4344
06:09:23,740 --> 06:09:26,980
Richard Bait, speaking on behalf of myself against the bill.

4345
06:09:29,480 --> 06:09:29,720
Go ahead.

4346
06:09:30,080 --> 06:09:34,180
As I was saying earlier, on first hearing of the bill, I thought I was going to have to

4347
06:09:34,180 --> 06:09:37,980
change my testimony because it comes across as a very fair and open bill.

4348
06:09:39,480 --> 06:09:45,060
But then when I heard about Plan B that you a couple might go and be refused but be referred,

4349
06:09:45,600 --> 06:09:47,560
that's open and overt discrimination.

4350
06:09:48,460 --> 06:09:53,560
It's sort of like the equivalent of same-sex couple A going to shop at HEB and believe

4351
06:09:53,560 --> 06:09:57,140
me, I love my HEB, but I'm just using it as an example.

4352
06:09:57,140 --> 06:09:59,440
and being told, perhaps you should shop.

4353
06:10:00,000 --> 06:10:29,980
At Whole Foods. That's discrimination. One of the other hats that I wear besides minister is sex therapist. I graduated from the Institute for Advanced Study of Human Sexuality in San Francisco, founded by United Methodist clergy because they realized that people went to two professional groups for counseling, doctors and ministers, and neither were equipped to talk about human sexuality. One of the things I learned from the institute is that

4354
06:10:29,980 --> 06:10:36,160
our sexuality is a good gift from God, and to say otherwise is to negate that gift.

4355
06:10:37,780 --> 06:10:42,680
It's almost like saying brown eyes are better than blue or hazel, or right-handed people,

4356
06:10:43,040 --> 06:10:45,520
or more superior to left-handed people.

4357
06:10:46,500 --> 06:10:52,880
I come from a congregation that's very inclusive and who views everyone as equal.

4358
06:10:53,720 --> 06:10:58,280
Something that hasn't been said, and I will leave you with this today, and I got this from

4359
06:10:58,280 --> 06:11:06,480
an institute. Children accept what they see, and what they see is either disruptive,

4360
06:11:07,040 --> 06:11:11,040
quibbling, argumentative parents, or stable, loving parents.

4361
06:11:11,880 --> 06:11:17,520
What they see is love. They do not see male and female, male, male and female, female,

4362
06:11:18,160 --> 06:11:23,560
they see someone who loves them. And that's where I'd like to end today.

4363
06:11:24,260 --> 06:11:25,540
Thank you very much for your question.

4364
06:11:26,380 --> 06:11:29,580
Chuck Smith, quality Texas,

4365
06:11:32,060 --> 06:11:34,280
here's speaking against the bill.

4366
06:11:34,440 --> 06:11:36,880
Thank you, I'm sorry I wasn't in the room when you called my name the first time.

4367
06:11:36,880 --> 06:11:41,960
My name is Chuck Smith, I'm the CEO of a quality Texas speaking in opposition to House Bill 3859.

4368
06:11:42,860 --> 06:11:52,560
We fully support the efforts by the state legislature, including Representative Frank's House Bill 6, which we're not debating here today, but efforts to improve child protective services system.

4369
06:11:53,120 --> 06:11:54,240
But we oppose-

4370
06:11:54,240 --> 06:11:56,740
As a reminder, we don't call it out of the bill, okay?

4371
06:11:57,180 --> 06:12:01,200
Okay, so we approved all efforts to improve the child protective services system,

4372
06:12:01,560 --> 06:12:03,240
including efforts by Representative Frank.

4373
06:12:03,780 --> 06:12:08,860
But we strongly oppose any legislation that does not align with best practices in child-centered care.

4374
06:12:09,240 --> 06:12:14,680
While you've heard today from many provider, faith-based provider organizations that have been supportive of this bill,

4375
06:12:15,240 --> 06:12:18,580
overwhelmingly the child advocate organizations are opposed to this bill.

4376
06:12:19,100 --> 06:12:25,520
The number one reason that children remain in state care is the lack of qualified perspective foster an adoptive families.

4377
06:12:25,900 --> 06:12:28,340
It's a lack of parents, not a lack of providers.

4378
06:12:29,140 --> 06:12:33,580
And we fear that House Bill 3859 would decrease the chances of youth placement.

4379
06:12:34,020 --> 06:12:38,860
And by turning away prospective families who are otherwise qualified to give children a home.

4380
06:12:40,100 --> 06:12:45,880
Turning away qualified parents, we risk keeping children in need of a home and in foster care for a longer period of time.

4381
06:12:45,880 --> 06:12:48,880
There was discussion earlier about practical consequences.

4382
06:12:49,300 --> 06:12:53,840
I'm concerned that this bill will allow a provider to refuse to work with LGBT kids.

4383
06:12:54,160 --> 06:13:00,320
I'm concerned that this bill would allow a provider to force an LGBT child into conversion therapy,

4384
06:13:00,500 --> 06:13:04,880
a process that has been denounced by every major child welfare organization.

4385
06:13:05,540 --> 06:13:14,680
There's been talk of a committee sub, if that's the case, we would welcome the opportunity to work with Representative Frank to ensure that the best interests of the child remains paramount.

4386
06:13:14,680 --> 06:13:19,160
And that LGBT kids and that LGBT parents are not shut out of the process of the system.

4387
06:13:19,560 --> 06:13:20,340
Thank you very much.

4388
06:13:20,940 --> 06:13:21,320
Thank you.

4389
06:13:21,440 --> 06:13:22,700
Jessica Turner, Tucker.

4390
06:13:23,040 --> 06:13:23,440
Excuse me.

4391
06:13:23,760 --> 06:13:24,440
Jessica Tucker.

4392
06:13:25,060 --> 06:13:26,380
I'm sorry I missed my turn.

4393
06:13:26,520 --> 06:13:27,280
I had to work today.

4394
06:13:28,060 --> 06:13:29,440
Thank you for allowing me to testify.

4395
06:13:29,720 --> 06:13:30,740
My name is Jessica Tucker.

4396
06:13:31,200 --> 06:13:36,100
And I am absolutely and unequivocally testifying against HP 3859.

4397
06:13:36,180 --> 06:13:37,180
Are you representing yourself too?

4398
06:13:37,380 --> 06:13:38,600
Yes, I am representing myself.

4399
06:13:38,860 --> 06:13:39,040
Okay.

4400
06:13:40,360 --> 06:13:44,460
I was part of a foster family that fostered for 11 years.

4401
06:13:44,460 --> 06:13:48,720
In that time, over 157 children passed through our home,

4402
06:13:49,020 --> 06:13:53,700
I have four adopted siblings, all of which were adopted through CPS.

4403
06:13:54,460 --> 06:13:57,580
I know the foster care system inside and out, and I'm going to tell you,

4404
06:13:57,640 --> 06:13:58,940
I don't want to talk about adults today.

4405
06:13:59,600 --> 06:14:03,300
I really have strong feelings about that, but I'm not going to talk about that.

4406
06:14:03,620 --> 06:14:07,260
The children is what's important here, the welfare of the children.

4407
06:14:08,200 --> 06:14:10,600
Children do not come to the state voluntarily.

4408
06:14:11,100 --> 06:14:12,900
Nobody comes to the state voluntarily.

4409
06:14:13,820 --> 06:14:16,760
children need all the help that they can get.

4410
06:14:17,420 --> 06:14:20,280
As one of the witnesses said, we need all hands on deck.

4411
06:14:21,020 --> 06:14:25,300
I greatly admire those of different religious beliefs who wish to foster.

4412
06:14:25,720 --> 06:14:30,700
However, there are private adoption agencies such as Christian Social Services, the Lutheran Social Services,

4413
06:14:31,100 --> 06:14:34,480
that these families may foster with and I encourage them to do so.

4414
06:14:35,360 --> 06:14:40,400
However, allowing the children to stay in the homes that they are in longer,

4415
06:14:40,400 --> 06:14:45,980
while they look for a secondary provider, keeps a child in an abusive situation for longer,

4416
06:14:46,720 --> 06:14:49,740
an abusive situation that could be fatal to the child.

4417
06:14:50,220 --> 06:14:52,540
One of my sisters came into care in a full-body cast.

4418
06:14:53,260 --> 06:14:56,640
Another of my sisters came into care with her tongue turned from the bottom of her mouth.

4419
06:14:57,640 --> 06:14:59,840
any minute that we leave a child in an

4420
06:15:00,000 --> 06:15:26,680
The use of situation is a minute that is harming that child. The welfare of the child is permanent. The state of Texas needs all hands on deck. Children are sleeping in the offices of CPS workers because they are not enough homes. We were called it two in the morning to take children because they were not enough homes. We were called to take children from neighboring counties because they were not enough homes. We were called to take children at variance of four children.

4421
06:15:26,680 --> 06:15:31,020
We already had, times we had four children in our home and we were asked to take variances

4422
06:15:31,020 --> 06:15:33,100
because there were not enough homes.

4423
06:15:33,480 --> 06:15:38,580
I am begging you, as someone who has seen many, many children passed through the state

4424
06:15:38,580 --> 06:15:43,280
of Texas, do not do anything to limit the number of homes.

4425
06:15:43,540 --> 06:15:52,520
Please allow children to be raised in loving LVGT, Muslim, Hindu, any family that can provide

4426
06:15:52,520 --> 06:16:02,080
a loving and stable environment is better than an abusive, neglectful, and potentially fatal home that the child is left in.

4427
06:16:03,080 --> 06:16:04,800
Thank you very much for your testimony.

4428
06:16:05,440 --> 06:16:12,740
Is there anyone else here that has a registered test found for against House Bill 3859?

4429
06:16:13,900 --> 06:16:18,160
Now we're going to ask herbs in the Frank to close on the bill.

4430
06:16:18,160 --> 06:16:18,860
I

4431
06:16:22,540 --> 06:16:51,440
remember thank y'all for being here, I guess, one of the advantages of getting to listen to what your bill does or doesn't do is you get at least the last word and I just had just a few quick things that I appreciate the passion of the lady really that just testified she almost did my clothes for me although I think we can obviously disagree on what the bill does because I think this really does what she's talking about is get all hands on deck and allow everyone to participate there are a few things that I wanted to mention again, it just reminds you the placements where it's all goes

4432
06:16:51,440 --> 06:16:53,640
is not covered, okay?

4433
06:16:54,000 --> 06:16:58,960
So it, this gives us the ability to get as many homes out there, the LGBT couples that are already,

4434
06:16:59,060 --> 06:17:01,940
I mean, there's already folks out in the LGBT community that are doing a great job.

4435
06:17:02,460 --> 06:17:04,800
We need as many of those homes, we need as many religious homes.

4436
06:17:05,020 --> 06:17:08,960
So that, when CPS makes that hard decision of where do I place this child?

4437
06:17:09,320 --> 06:17:14,120
There are as many options as possible, I believe this bill serves that purpose.

4438
06:17:14,640 --> 06:17:19,480
And it absolutely does not in any way keep anyone from placing with an LGBT couple.

4439
06:17:19,480 --> 06:17:27,120
That's just critical to understand we've been, I mean, people have been talking about it, but no matter what, we don't understand the CPS or the SSCC or not covered.

4440
06:17:27,620 --> 06:17:35,520
In fact, one of the folks, I guess they said they weren't sure if the SSCC was covered despite the fact that the Attorney General's Office said it is and

4441
06:17:35,520 --> 06:17:40,500
Ledge Council said it is, if there's a way to make sure it is in the bill, it's already there.

4442
06:17:41,440 --> 06:17:48,500
I also thought it was ironic one of the other witnesses said something about, you know, this will give these agencies a chance to sue the state.

4443
06:17:49,360 --> 06:17:51,220
There is no monetary damage in this.

4444
06:17:51,740 --> 06:17:54,620
They have the ability to sue the state to get back in the game.

4445
06:17:55,300 --> 06:17:59,440
So we have on one hand, we have a group that are suing to try to get a chance to work

4446
06:17:59,440 --> 06:18:04,180
with the kids, and on other hands, we have people that are suing to try to get these organizations

4447
06:18:04,180 --> 06:18:04,840
out of it.

4448
06:18:05,960 --> 06:18:07,060
That's not very difficult.

4449
06:18:08,520 --> 06:18:12,960
Last thing we've kept talking about the best interest of the kid, and I would be glad to

4450
06:18:12,960 --> 06:18:14,540
provide you guys with that list.

4451
06:18:14,540 --> 06:18:44,440
that is something that CPS is supposed to be doing, making the decision of where to place that child in the best interest it's already in statute it's in it the best interest for the child legal standard already applies and includes allowances to match children with homes that are close to them and respects the desires of the child actually is the number one and I can give you the I'll provide you all with more that list again we've talked a lot about the discrimination I really believe this gives everybody a chance to participate and I'm going to close with this final thought

4452
06:18:44,440 --> 06:18:51,560
We, as we had a lot of different views here, but we are a country founded on freedom of speech and free exercise of religion.

4453
06:18:51,560 --> 06:19:00,320
These fundamental rights are enshrined in the First Amendment, that are enshrined in the First Amendment are what enable individuals to live in peace side by side.

4454
06:19:00,860 --> 06:19:04,940
We may not all agree, but we don't have to all agree.

4455
06:19:05,400 --> 06:19:09,900
However, when it comes to helping those most vulnerable in society, we should cast aside our differences and

4456
06:19:09,900 --> 06:19:14,080
We can reach agreements on things that will create a stronger and more diverse support system for children.

4457
06:19:14,080 --> 06:19:18,520
I believe this will do it and with that I would entertain any questions and if there are no questions.

4458
06:19:19,360 --> 06:19:20,640
Any questions, Vemma?

4459
06:19:21,120 --> 06:19:21,960
Thank you very much.

4460
06:19:21,980 --> 06:19:22,940
Then I would respectfully close.

4461
06:19:23,040 --> 06:19:23,740
Thank you all very much.

4462
06:19:24,060 --> 06:19:26,620
This time is the chair, good job.

4463
06:19:26,900 --> 06:19:31,360
This time chair is intentfully House Bill 3859 pending.

4464
06:19:32,200 --> 06:19:36,540
Chair lays out, HJR 29 and calls on Ripper soon.

4465
06:19:37,080 --> 06:19:39,980
Munoz to explain how to

4466
06:19:51,400 --> 06:19:54,500
call you up earlier if I didn't know that's what I was saying maybe should have called this earlier

4467
06:20:00,000 --> 06:20:03,800
Oh, gosh, no. Thank you for your energy to represent our campus.

4468
06:20:06,190 --> 06:20:11,030
Go ahead. Thank you, Mr. Chairman and members.

4469
06:20:11,870 --> 06:20:30,770
HCR 29 seeks to amend the Constitution to assist in the governor and making appointments to state boards, commissions, or other governing bodies of a state agency to ensure to the extent possible that these governing boards reflect the gender composition of the board that is reflective of the composition of Texas. Currently,

4470
06:20:30,770 --> 06:20:43,870
currently only an estimated 34% of all appointees consist of women making Texas at times one of the lowest states when it comes to categories of workplace environment, education and political empowerment.

4471
06:20:44,250 --> 06:20:48,690
This despite women constituting approximately half of the state's population.

4472
06:20:49,470 --> 06:20:55,590
Members HCR 29 would allow for a more diverse representation of our state's demographics in these positions.

4473
06:20:55,590 --> 06:21:04,090
The joint resolution would allow for a transition for those currently serving and does not expressly prohibit a current member from being reappointed as provided by law.

4474
06:21:04,650 --> 06:21:11,750
On average during a four-year term, a governor could make up to several thousand appointments according to the governor's office.

4475
06:21:12,370 --> 06:21:17,250
We all know that there are more than 200 state boards, commissions and agencies whose members are appointed by the governor.

4476
06:21:18,010 --> 06:21:24,010
As you can see in the bill, the language states that in making these appointments, the governor shall to the extent possible

4477
06:21:24,010 --> 06:21:26,870
ensure that the composition reflects that of the state.

4478
06:21:27,350 --> 06:21:32,130
This proposal is not a quota favoring one group at the expense of another and nobody would

4479
06:21:32,130 --> 06:21:35,570
lose out to a minority and I don't think the governor will have any problem finding

4480
06:21:35,570 --> 06:21:37,910
qualified women ready to serve this great state.

4481
06:21:38,290 --> 06:21:44,370
Up to today, I have not been contacted by any apparent opposition although things could

4482
06:21:44,370 --> 06:21:48,690
always change but I will be glad to answer any questions at this time and I reserve the

4483
06:21:48,690 --> 06:21:49,170
right to close.

4484
06:21:50,610 --> 06:21:53,610
any questions? Any question, remember? I don't think so.

4485
06:21:55,930 --> 06:21:58,250
Is there anybody here this

4486
06:21:58,250 --> 06:22:06,530
register to speak on for against HAR 2029? No, so you can go ahead and close.

4487
06:22:07,110 --> 06:22:10,870
Thank you, Mr. Chairman, members, for your time and attention, and I respectfully close.

4488
06:22:11,290 --> 06:22:16,650
Thank you. At this time, Mr. Chair's intent to leave HAR 29 pending. There being no other

4489
06:22:16,650 --> 06:22:18,490
a business for the Committee on State Affairs,

4490
06:22:18,690 --> 06:22:20,290
stands adjourned, subject call, chair.