Good morning. We are live streaming and recording the August
25th, 2026 Committee of the Whole Meeting. Our building has
a single stage fire alarm in the event of an
emergency or activation of the fire alarm, please exit the
building through the nearest safe exit, assemble in the East
Parking area by the Georgian Trail and the Weaver Valley
Outreach and await further instructions. For individuals requiring special assistance,
please let a staff member know. Thank you. Oh, sorry,
is there a technology issue? No. Yep, we're good. Okay,
just making sure our audio is correct. Excellent, thank you
very much, Madam Deputy Clerk. I'd now like to call
to order this committee the whole meeting of Tuesday, August
25th, 2026. At this point in time, whether virtual or
here in the chamber, please direct your attention to the
Deputy Clerk who willed us in the traditional territory acknowledgement.
We would like to begin our meeting by recognising the
First Nations Meety and Inuit Peoples of Canada as traditional
stewards of the land. The municipality is located within the
boundary of Treaty 18, region of 1818, which is a
traditional land of the Anishanobik on Deshunde - Ntt -
Weindat Peoples. Thank you, Madam Deputy Clerk. And now, please
join us for a moment of reflection.
Thank you. Madam Deputy Clerk, could you please confirm our
Council Members this morning? Certainly, Madam Mayor. I confirm that
all members of Council are present today in Council Chambers.
Excellent. So we'll move on to item A2. It's recommended
that the Agenda of August 25th, 2026, be approved of
circulated, including any items to be added to the agenda.
May ask for a mover in a seconder. So moved.
Second, Madame Mayer. Moved by the Dipney Mirror, seconded by
Councillor McKinley. Any discussion. Okay, Madam Deputy Clerk, please call
that vote. That vote is open.
That. Boat is closed. And that motion is carried 7
- 0. Item A3, note in accordance with the municipal
conflict of interest Act and the Town Procedural Bylaw 2026
- 44. Council members must file a written statement of
the interest and its general nature with the clerk for
inclusion on the registry. Madam Deputy Clerk, did you receive
any declarations? I have not, Madam Mayor. Okay, seeing no
hands raised. We'll move on to the recommendation of A4
that the Committee of the Whole Minutes of June 30th,
2026 be adopted as circulated, including any revisions to be
made. May I ask for mover in a seconder? So
moved, thank you. Moved by Councillor Ardell. Second. Second and
by The Deputy Mayor. Any discussion. Madam Deputy Clerk, please
call that vote. The vote is open.
Hopefully I assist. The affirmative, please. Thank you. That vote
is close. And that motion is carried 7 - 0.
At this point in time, we were able to direct
our attention to Section B, which is Staff Reports Deputations
and Correspondence. The First Portion of Today, which will be
chaired for Operations by Councillor McKinley. Councillor McKinley, you help
the chair. Thank you, Madam Mayor. So item B1, we
have no deputations for this section. We do have a
written comment, so I'm gonna read the Public Comment period
regarding matters, included in the Operations Portion of the Meeting.
Each speaker is a lot of three minutes. Note, in
accordance with the Town Procedural Bylaw 2026 - 44, 10
minutes is allotted at the beginning and end of each
section of the Committee of the Whole Meeting to receive
Public Comments regarding matters included on the Agenda. Each person
shall provide their name and address and is required to
address their comments to the chair. Comments shall not refer
to personal litigation or potential litigation matters, or be in
response to matters that have been the subject of a
Public meeting. It being noted that the verbal commenting period
has ended. Written correspondence may still be received in response
to matters that have been the subject of a Public
Meeting. If a person is unable to personally attend the
meeting or during any period, we're an emergency has been
declared to exist in the municipality. They shall provide their
Public comments and writing to the clerk in advance of
the meeting for the clerk to read on behalf of
the author during the Public Comment period. Now, Madame Deputy
Clerk, you've indicated we have a written one, so I'll
go to a written one first. And if anyone in
the gallery would like to speak, we'll go to them.
Please go ahead. Thank you, Mr. Chair. So these comments
are from Scott Finley, Blue Mountains Rate Pairs Association. After
reviewing The Most recent Staff Report, OPS 26035 regarding Craig
Leith Wastewater Treatment Plant upgrades. That staff are now proposing
that the sourcing of debt so that the above project
may proceed. As reserves are exceptionally low, and we have
recently been turned down for grant application under the Provincial
Health and Safety Water Stream Fund for the Combined Seven
Projects Totally in 45 million. Based on recent history and
the current state of our balance sheet, we expect that
this will not be the last such request for financing,
which leads us to the following questions. One, based on
cost estimates using recently completed 30 percent design drawings combined
project is now proposed to be 8. 2 million over
budget. Where will the incremental funding come from and what
is the final cost estimates for all seven components of
the project? Two, currently we do not have a director
of finance nor a director of operations. What is the
timeline to replace these positions? And should we not wait
until we have those senior resources in place before proceeding
on any project whose money estimate is above plan? Three,
The larger question is not borrowing capacity of the town,
but whether we should be borrowing money at all. The
BMRA believes this is, that should be answered by the
newly elected town council and the decision to proceed on
projects that require financing should be made by the newly
elected Town Council supported by 10 - year debt projections.
Thank you for your consideration. Thank you, Madam Dekr. Now
I'll look to the gallery. If the one in the
chambers that would like to make a comment. Going once,
going twice. Okay, I will close that portion. The agenda.
Now, we have a correspondence. First piece of correspondence and
item B 3. 1. We have the Blue Mountains Bay
Street Reconstruction Project, dated August 14th, 2026 for the period
of August 17th to 21st, 2026. We'll get that up
on the screen, and I'll look for any hands. Oh,
and I'll get my screen texture. Uh, Councillor Porter, go
ahead. Yes, thank you through the chair. Um, so this
is a project update. I also note, and I understand
from residents during this time that there was a water
break in the temporary water pipe. Which the contractor installed
buried. And I certainly don't think was necessary. So I'm
wondering what, um, I'm wondering why it happened. And how
it won't happen again. Okay. Manager Kershaw, or do we
have, um, our coordinator on the line? Or go ahead,
Andrew Kershaw. That's who you, Mr. Chair. So we did
have a break in the temporary water main. I can't
guarantee it won't happen again. Uh, it's a water main.
We have breaks in our water main, um, periodically throughout
the town, whether they're buried or whether they're a temporary
water main. Our water department was there on site, and
it was repaired within 45 minutes. This was addressed quickly.
There was, it was properly flushed. There was no consideration
for water quality issues. It was addressed, it happens. And,
uh, staff responded appropriately. I like a follow - up,
please. Follow up. So please correct me, I understand from
the residents I spoke to that was the contractor that
broke the line. Of Gershaw. Therefore, and as I said,
it is bright blue. It's raw and blue. It's fair
size, and they installed the line. How will they not
break it again? Manager Crowchelle, if you can answer that,
I'm not sure. I wasn't there. Uh, through you, Mr.
Chair, so you're correct. It was broken by the contractor.
Uh, our water staff did respond, and they repaired it
as quickly as possible. I can't guarantee it won't happen
again. It is big construction. Uh, and big equipment, and
it's a two inch line. We're doing our best. And
there are no guarantees that a water main will never
break in the town again. It's the nature of infrastructure.
We do our best to maintain it. We monitor it
quite quickly. So when there's a water main break, we
will see pressures drop and our reservoirs start to start
to drop quickly. We do have reserves that we enables
free flowing water out of the pipe. So there is
no water quality issues. Uh, we did maintain positive pressure.
And Staff responded as quickly as they possibly could to
repair the break. So I'm going to ask for another.
CAO Smith. Yeah, through the chair, we just add that
I think the key thing is, is it relates to,
and I think when the grand scheme, the project as
well, is that I don't think we've had too many
breaks that have been associated with work, particularly when you're
in such a tight space as it relates to bay.
I do know that there's always that follow up or
that those, those meetings that I occur with the contractor
with respecting, you know, safe and effective work within that,
uh, area as well. So the fact that it was
repaired within that 45 minute time period is, I think,
is definitely a credit to staff to be in responsive
and demonstration of, uh, I think, uh, I think, uh,
oversight of the project, uh, yeah, it is a challenge,
I think, being on site and looking at some of
the complexities that have to be navigated. I'm much more
concerned if, uh, there was a major gap in service
for an extended period of time. But the repair did
occur in a timely way. And I do know Stafford
were on that in a, promptly. Thank you, CAO Smith.
Now Council Reporter, just to wrap up and we've got
some more, uh, questions here from other members. Go ahead.
Does the contractor reimburse the town for the time staff
spent? CEO Smith or Andrew Kershaw? Or do you want
to get back to us on that. Through you, Mr.
Chair. So we do track time that we spend on
capital projects. There's a lot of time that Staff time
dedicated to capital projects. The cost of the repair was
insignificant. But we, we do track our time. I'm not
exactly sure if we're reimbursed, uh, by the, at the
end of the day, it's one taxpayer. And we're paying
for the entire construction as well as maintaining services as
well as paying for staff time. But we do track
our time for capital projects. The manager Kershaw. C. O.
Smith, did you want to see your mic skewed? Yeah.
To the chat, I would just add that this wouldn't
be, say, the nature of the work because there was
the break that occurred on behalf of the contractor that
say the contractor build back the town as it relates
to added costs as associated with the break. That's not
certainly not the case in this regard. Thank you, C.
O. Smith. So going to move on to Councillor Maxwell.
Thank you, Chair. And, um, I guess, Allison, I'm not
sure if this is in your wheelhouse or not, but,
um, here's a resident sending some correspondence. And I don't,
I'm not going to say her name right now. But
it's on the corner of Elgan and Bay. And she
was concerned about the entrance into her property. I don't
know of all the entrances been addressed. But, um. If
you could say answer that would be great. Okay. Okay.
Mensch your Kershaw. Through you, Mr. Chair. I believe are
we talking about a driveway that was essentially two tracks,
two gravel tracks, uh, so the situation being there that,
uh, when we reconstruct a street, especially when we put
storm sewers in, we do pay the aprons. So the
ends of the driveways, we do pave them. Uh, we
don't leave them gravel. Being that when there's a storm
system, a storm collection system, we don't want gravel in
our storm systems. So it is necessary to pave the
ends of the apron. So we'll pay from the edge
of asphalt on the road up to the property line.
And we maintain it driveways as they were like same
width as they previously were prior to construction. We do
have photos and we've taken measurements of every driveway, every
entrance. And we are trying to maintain them, but it
has been paved up until the property line. And there
is a little buffer of gravel from the edge of
Asphalt to where it returned to the two, um, gravel
tracks. With a grass up the middle. Follow up Council
Maxwell. No, that's, that's fine. Thank you. Okay. Thank you.
Councillor Hope. Thank you very much Chair McKinley. So this,
I think this request comes under either of the two
items that are in the, in the gene, so I'm
going to raise it now. Residents are concerned about the
safety of the, of the water. We're hearing from them.
And they'd like to see the water tested. Some have
fears about even swimming. Uh, some have fears about their
drinking water. Um, we have heard from the neighbourhood, they
have asked for that. And, uh, I'm wondering, uh, when
that can be executed through Mr. Chair to Ms. Kershaw.
And Ja Kershaw. So let's start off with something I
want to make very clear here. Our drinking water is
safe. Our drinking water goes The Drinking Watt through our
water treatment plant. It's tested thoroughly and it is very
safe. So there are no questions about the safety of
our drinking water. That's off the table. There is no
question about that. So when it comes to testing, direction,
uh, we, the town has hired a second environmental company
to oversee the works there. So the contractor themselves, clear
way, they had hired an environmental company to monitor the
construction in compliance with our permits. So the one company
working on behalf of the contractor, ensuring that we're staying
within the environmental requirements of our permits. The town is
higher to second one on terrorists. And they are out
there on behalf of, so it's a third party testing
company. And they're out there, uh, we meet with them
regularly. They have been out. They've tested. The testing that
we're doing is turbidity, uh, suspended solids, water temperature, dissolved
oxygen. We will not be testing for bacteria. It's a
surface water. There is bacteria. There's micros. There's decoli. There's
total coliform. We test our raw water coming into the
drinking water plant every week. And we know it's existing.
It's a surface water source. And the other request that
we've had is for heavy metals. It's not warranted. It's
not part of our permitting. We're following Georgia Bay is
crown land. The lake bottom is crown land. The agency
that gave us our permissions to do the work. They've
asked us to test for turbidity. We have online turbidity
monitors out floating in the water right now. They're recording
a hundred percent all the time. And that data's being
tracked. We've also been taking additional samples. They've been going
in through the, uh, consultant for the contractor's environmental company
and through the third party that we've also hired. So
I think we're meeting the requirements of testing. Okay. Going
to go over. Thank you, Major Khrushchev. I'm going to
go over to OCAO Smith. You have your hand. Through
the chair. Just a point clarity as well. Just I
know with the corresponds being tied to Bang Grey, that
question related to, uh, I think the water quality out
in the bed. That's more so reflective of the outfall
project. So just for an agenda standpoint, it's a bit
of a delineation on the update specific to Bay and
Grey versus what is the related to the outfall. So
I do know we have some other, um, I think
items speaking to that outfall project, which may be more
of the time to further discuss some of the issues
there. The next piece of correspondence is the fall. So
yeah, so follow up. So we'll cover that later, like
in five minutes. But, uh, first of all, then, uh,
thank you very much. It's through you, Mr. Chair. Really
appreciate the fact that no one questioned whether there was
compliance. So I want to be very clear about that.
We don't, no need to feel that that's being challenged.
The point of the matter is communication with residents. She's
been an ongoing issue with this project. So why can't
they know exactly what we've just heard now? So if
we have to wait till we talk about the outfall,
then that's fine. But residents, they're living with this every
day. And they're worried about whether their grandchildren or our
safe swimming. I mean, these are all, whether they're fears
to whether they're logical or not, doesn't make any difference.
They need to have some kind of confidence. So I
think that we need to be sharing this information. Um,
that, that we're required to do anyway, uh, with the
residents. So again, I hope that we consider that. And
I guess we'll take it up under OPO. Thank you.
C. S. Smith. Yes, sir. Terry. To your point around
it coming up is more so to reinforce delineation between
Bay and Grey and the Ofal, just a separate project.
Just wanted to provide a little bit of that, uh,
that clarity. Thank you, C. O. Smith. Okay. Um, so
seeing no further hands, we have a motion to receive
this piece of correspondence. So I moved. Moved by the
Deputy Mayor Secondard. Second by Madam Mayor. And another question,
uh, Councillor Hope? Yes. I was wondering if there's agreement
that there will be some kind of sharing with the
residents about the water reports that we're receiving as part
of the process. I know that they are, oh, sorry
CAO Smith. Yeah. Through the chair, we did, and I
know we did provide some comms previously just with respect
to the expanded scope of the water testing that was
completed by also I'm aware of some further corresponds that's
come forward around, uh, and I think getting a little
bit more detail with respect to the scope of that
testing, which we can do another round or at least
some, some broader comms associate with that. So I think
and actually I think what would be helpful is, is
further to manage a Kershaw's point as well as the,
the challenge on broadening it to such a degree where
you're now looking at other factors beyond the outfall that
influence water behaviour. So for example, things such as E.
coli and other elements to which, um, is not so
much, it's very difficult in such a grand or such
a large scale as the bay as well as the
other elements that impact that quality such as the beaver
river, uh, and other matters as well. But, uh, yes,
to, to your point, we will put something further out
with respect to the scope of the water testing. And
we'll share that, uh, uh, today. Appreciate that. An ongoing
water testing as I gather from, um, uh, manager Kershaw
that needs to be shared, I think with the residents
that this is well in hand. And this is how
it's well in hand. So that they, they can, uh,
feel more comfortable about everything that's going on around them.
Yeah. Through the chair, absolutely. We can reinforce that messaging.
Thank you. I appreciate it. Okay. Thank you, Mr. CAO.
Thank you Councillor Hope. Okay. We have The motion that
council, The Tumble Mountains received for information, The Blue Mountains,
Bay Street Reconstruction Project dated August 14th, 2026 for the
period of August 17th to 21st of 2026. It has
been moved by the Deputy Mayor and seconded by The
Mayor. Signal further hands, Madam Deputy Clerk, can you call
that boat please? The vote is open.
Is closed. And that vote is carried with all present
voting in the affirmative. When we vote 3. 2, the
Blue Mountains Outfall Pipe Assembly and installation project dated August
14th, 2026 for the period of August 17th to 21st,
2026. Councillor Hope, you want to, I'll just go to
you first. Thank you. Thank you, Chair Kindle. Carried over.
Go ahead. Thank you. I appreciate that. So we have
then, I think probably I'll just turn the chair over
to chair. Excuse me. I'll turn, look to the CAO
for his comment sent on the outfall. We have, he's
referring to a different piece of correspondence, which is from
all of the residents. And it's quite a, um, quite
a serious request that I think we, you know, we
would appreciate hearing what the CEO has to say about
that. Thank you. Uh, C. A. Smith. Oh yeah. Through
the chair, similar to just my, my prior comments with
respect to that corresponds received as well, just in terms
of the, uh, request to expand some of the scope,
the testing, our position is. And I think is, is
to look at providing that, uh, greater clarity with regards
to what is being tested currently as part of that
expanded scope that a manager Kershaw did note was a
separate ad from on this, uh, on this project as
well as I think recognising and providing that, uh, informationing
on the limitations to what can be tested versus, uh,
what we certainly can look at doing to ensure that
what's directly relayed to the OFAL is being properly managed
and being controlled for. So, uh, we will, as I
mentioned, we will put that, uh, out today. And we
do have a, uh, comedian information session that will be
occurring on the, uh, later this week on the Friday,
which will be another great chance here directly from the
Consolants, which are the experts as it relates to doing
these types of works, uh, to further explain, you know,
those, uh, those measures to ensure that, uh, The Outfall
is being carried out in a safe manner. Follow up
Councillor Hope? Yes, thank you very much. So just looking
at the correspondence, I see there is a concern about
E. coli in total colder forms. And so. I think
the residents in the correspondence or in the communication that
you've been referring to, they should understand that we're talking
about surface, uh, issues versus deeper in the water. Um,
so I'm hoping that the full explanation. I understand that
we've got the meeting and appreciate it very much. But
I think that this letter is from all the residents.
It's a pretty serious letter. And I think we need
to get, we need to answer very specifically all of
these concerns. So even though, um, from a water science
perspective, some of the questions are handled differently in different
ways. Uh, I think we need to explain that. Thank
you. In the communication. Thank you. Okay. CEO Smith. Do
you have a response to that or manage a crucial?
No through the chair. That's, yeah, no, we can take
that away. And that's good feedback. Thank you. Okay. Thank
you. Uh, Councillor Porter, go ahead. Yes. Thank you. Yes.
Thank you. And through the chair. So having been down
there because I've been asked to go, um, you see
the, um. The water changes colour as you go out.
It does. And it's coming from the east and is
coming from grey street and is now down to like
at least the fourth house. And it is moving. And
they're concerned. And it, um, the more detail, you know,
supporting will Councillor Hope and you have set. The more
detail they receive, the better. But I think it. Feel,
and quoting what they say. So the front of their
houses are all torn up. They haven't been to park.
They're having to move. Some people have difficulty walking. And
then they go out the back and they're scared to
go out in the water. There's kids who have their
children go out in the water. And this is actually
the nicest weather for this type of activity that we
have. So they feel a bit sandwiched in the middle.
And they're concerned about the colour. This is new to
their water. They haven't had this before. And there's been
issues as a result of the work on grocery. I
don't think this was anticipated. And people in the absence
of information in the absence of reassurance, this is where
people go. It is, it is natural. It's not uncommon.
Um, because they don't know it's okay. They're being told
we're doing everything we're supposed to do from a regulation
perspective. Um, but they don't know, um, if that's good
enough, if that's the minimum, like they just don't out.
And, um, so I'm putting forward, I have made suggestions
to you that is testing be considered. I would be
interesting to know what the price of it is in
the schema things. Like how big, how big of a
price tag is this to maybe to provide these people
with the reassurance that they need given that they've got
stuff going on in the front door and the back
door. So, um, perhaps this will be, this will come
out on the meeting on Friday. Thank you. Okay. Um.
Councillor Maxwell. Thank you Council Porter. Councillor Maxwell. Thank you,
Chair. Just wondering. If. You know, the
water, the water normally when it comes out of the
beaver river. Moves from the Weber River down towards Collingwood.
That's where the current's going. But we've had some significant
rain events upstream in the Bieber River. And we've dam
up there, uh, up around slab down that's been breached.
And there's been a ton of silt has moved downstream.
I'm not saying that totally it, but it may have
been a factor in this as well. Um, so I
just, you know, I don't know how it's very difficult
to determine exactly where things come from. Um, we can
do our best. But I just want to throw that
in there because, uh, you know, we have to look
at everything when we're looking at things. So anyway, Allison,
I'll just leave that with you. Mensch your Kershaw. Do
you have a response to that? Yeah. Three, Mr. Chair,
uh, do you Councillor Maxwell? Um, there are impacts from
the Beaver River. We live in an area where we
have a number of fringe creeks that deposit in the
bay when we have heavy rain events. We can see
them clearly from one end of the town to the
other, the impacts from heavy rain events. Uh, the dredging
activity is disturbing the clay. There's no doubt about it.
There is a clay layer within the lake bottom that
is being disturbed through the dredging activity. Forms very, very
fine particles and it forms like a colloidal. So it
hangs in the water for a long time. It doesn't
settle out quickly. Uh, we see that in different areas,
but the dredging is affecting the turbidity of the water.
We do have limits that we have to stay within.
And we are working with our agencies to make sure
that because they oversee the lake bottom and it's crown
land to make sure we're not impacting beyond what we're
allowed to, um, one of the biggest requirements, what our
agencies are looking for is protecting habitat protecting fish populations
protecting the, um, the life that does take place in
the lake bottom. It's very difficult. It's a very challenging
project. And there are a lot of impacts. We've got
to remember that the beaver river runs through a number
of areas of farmland. And we do spread manure. It
is a pretty common practice throughout, uh, grey County. It's
not uncommon for a rural communities across the province and
across the country. Uh, that will have an impact on
E. coli and total coliforms in your surface water intakes.
Um, and that's why as a drinking water for managing
or drinking water system, we have different requirements for, um,
treating and measuring E. coli and total coliform in our
drinking water system. Then if we were a groundwater system
or treatment trains different. A surface water is impacted by
a number of different inputs. Whether it be rain or
coming through the valley, uh, but the dredging activity definitely
is having an impact on the bay. Follow up Councillor
Maxwell. No. Uh, thank you very much, Allison. Okay. Thank
you, manager Kershaw. Signal for their hands. Do we have
anybody would like to move to receive this correspondence? I
will move. Move by the mayor. Oh, second. Second by
Mr. Deputy Mayor that council of the Town Blue Mountains
receives for information Blue Mountains, Oakfall Pipe, assembly and installation
project update dated August 14th, 2026 for the period of
August 17th to the 21st of 2026. It's been dually
moved and seconded any further questions. Seeing none, Madam Deputy
Clerk, you may call that vote, please. That vote is
open. For me. Thank you, Councillor Maxwell.
And that boat is closed. And that vote is carried
with all present voting in the affirmative. We move on
to item B 3. 3, Gary Tile, resident regarding reconstruction
of appeal street. Mr. Deputy Mayor, go ahead. Thank you,
Mr. Chair, through you. I guess a question for the
CAO in place of the director operations. Uh, Mr. Towel
raises some points of talking about infrastructure, much needed, um,
upgrades. So that's not the argument point. I think the
urban standard, and I know that, you know, we have
certain mechanisms in place for ever standard in that. Um,
but based on the topography and the historical areas of
the town, when a new director of Ops is in
const, Mr. CO, do you see opportunities to maybe take
a look at project by project? I know we look
at it project project, but not one size fits all.
That would be my question to you. Mr. CAO. Uh,
yes, through the chair. And I think even, uh, for,
from any projects, they're based on the geography or based
on this historical standards to which a lot of this
infrastructure is designed to sometimes the natural impediments to, to
make it to a standard of that we would, we
would practice today. Uh, so I would say that, uh,
I think there is a degree of that that goes
into any, um, uh, project scope. But certainly when we
do have onboard a new director of operations, that is
something that is a theme. And I think a focal
point relates to any initiative that I think will need
to be top of mind, at least when it comes
to even initially designing that scope is to have those
conversations, particularly at the budget, be it a budget or
in terms of getting to that initial design phase is
to say, okay, what is really in terms of practical
as it relates to making sure that, you know, it
is to standard that can promote safety. It's going to
promote reliability in the system versus what is something to
which will be a standard that, you know, doesn't imperil
the town's ability to have those, uh, reliable systems in
place. But at the same time still kind of marry
into, uh, that, uh, that character of that, uh, of
that area. So it is, uh, yeah, it is a
focal point as it relates to how we carry out
these reconstructions moving forward. And sometimes it is also based
on or where the influences are comments and feedback we
get from external agencies such as MTO such as utilities,
which we have limited control onto say that, uh, what
they may request for. Because I know, for example, hydropoles
is one case in point, which we don't necessarily as
a town have much control as it relates to the
placement of a hydropause or really on the design elements
there. So, uh, but to the degree we can is
to say to Council is around, you know, what this
is an option, right? Is to look at, uh, modifying
to reflect on that character. Follow up Mr. Deputy Mayor.
Yes. Thank you. Um, this year I answered half my,
my follow - up question with the utilities. You know,
sometimes again, we've limited input with the utilities, but I
think we need to further those conversations saying, is there
an opportunity in this area to have larger lines, maybe
buried cable? I think those conversations, even though they may
not get the end result, at least we should have,
I'm not saying we don't. We should be, that should
be a focal point to have those conversations up front.
And then we have to recognise too, if we do
want a sidewalker, a trail, the road has to be
that much wider or, or for drainage. We do need
the curbs. So there's, it's just, I think it's just
a matter of, you touched on it with character to
neighbourhood. And then if we can get that tie in
with the utilities, a little bit, um, more pressure. I
think that would really help. Um, alleviate some concerns as
we are doing some of these, um, fixes and reinfructure
projects. So I'd appreciate that that's always a theme as
we move forward. CEO Smith. No through chair. Thank you.
That's good feedback. Thank you. Great. Okay. Thank you. Uh,
Councillor Maxwell. Go ahead. Thank you chair. And yeah, Mr.
Towell did bring up some interesting points here. Um, I
took the opportunity on the weekend to walk down Peace
Street North with a couple of retired landscape architects. And,
um, you know, I was surprised to win and ran
into some of the residents that, especially I've high bluff
lane. They said they really like the wide sidewalks because
of, uh, you know, for baby buggies and different things
like that. So, but then, you know, and then I
also took a walk down Bay Street East. And they
have a different way of looking at things. So I
think the conclusion was this. And I think, cause everybody
brings up character all the time and we've never defined
it ever. And I'm actually thinking about doing a notice
of motion on that because we're, you know, after with
the landscape architects, uh, look at soft landscaping for current
and future infrastructure projects. That, you know, trying to preserve
the character neighbourhood character and identity. So you may, I
may bring that forward and see, okay, but I'll just,
uh, leave it at that. Thank you. C. O. S.
Smith, do you have a response to that. Yeah. Through
the chair. I think, uh, one of the initiatives here
is to ensure that when we look at capital projects
as well or any project in general that there is
an integration of various perspectives into the design of those
elements whereby, for example, in Peel Street North, where you
do have a park nearby, or you look at, you
know, some of the other, um, other factors that may
influence, uh, what that may look like or what those,
uh, risks might be 20 years down the line, such
as nearby developments. So I think that is always, I
think the challenge when we look at say a green
field type of development or green field type of project
where you do not have the same. I think, uh,
I think, uh, difficulties or challenges as you do in
more of an existing type of, uh, redevelopment of a,
of a space. But we always, and I think that's
something that, you know, we continue this improvement in the
sense of, uh, ensuring that we have those, uh, you
know, to the point around landscaping is, you know, well,
may not be, you know, they say the driver of
the projects to get a water or sanitary pipe installed
is to say, well, what are some of those, um,
associated impacts and how do we modify that scope understanding
budget's always going to be a limitation or do we
say is this is part of a, this will influence
a future plan. So we don't want to do anything.
I think my, the Risk on my end is ensuring
whatever we do basically shapes the course of what that
park may look like in the future or what that,
uh, how the limitations may be opposed on some other
type of future development or community initiative that's being in,
uh, moves forward. So I think that is definitely the
ideal kind of state to which we have that type
of fulsome perspective when it comes to these projects. Okay.
All right. No. Follow up to that. Council supporter. Go
ahead. Yes. Thank you. And through the chair, I would
ask, um, it might be Miss Cameron to go down
where it says, um, subject request for Council Meeting Agenda
item. I want to look at the, um, pick slides
first. Distinus comparison.
So I think, no, not that way going too far.
This. This is really what Peel Street look like before.
You can barely count Powell. You barely see a pole.
And this is what was presented at the PEC. And
then if we, is it scroll up or scroll down?
I get, so whatever. This is, okay, stop. And the
next slides actually worse. This is what we have now.
Uh, which residents are. You know, they do call, they'd
like to rename the place polls right now. Um, there
is so many pools. In comparison. And I mean, you
don't even have to count. It's just on a visual.
I did speak with Mr. Chile. I've spoken with a
number of people down there. And so part of the
conversation and trying to understand. And at the corner of
high bluff and peel, there is four light fixtures holes
of different sizes. There's four on a corner. Is. Knowing
that you have ab cor on one side and hydro
one on the other. And. I also, um, no alignment
who works for Hydro One and they're given instructions by
the example was the city of Hamilton where hydropulse goal.
He actually just texted me the copy because he's aligned.
That's what he does. Um, so taking that into account,
I thought I'm going to call the Ontario Energy Board
and distoss them the question. I asked them the question.
And in this scenario where you have Ebcor and Hydro
on different sides of the road as a provider. Do
they have to have separate polls? The answer is no.
Can they share polls? Yes. You can put anything on
a pole. You can put a light, you can put
rogers. You can put every on the pool. And while
the municipality isn't required, nothing stops the municipality from talking
to all the players and saying, and I reference the
previous picture. This is what we have before. This is
what we're going to do. Is there any way you
guys can work together so it's least disruptive. And. There
is, there's nothing stopping the town from doing that. So
I want to ask, did any of that happen in
this project? Because to say something can happen in the
future projects is easy. And I think that's important that
they do. But did anyone think about the ascetics of
the street and how the volume of poles would change
it so much. It looks like an urban street. So
I'm just asking the question. Did that cross anybody's mind?
CEO Smith. I don't know. Yeah. I believe we do
have Mike Campbell on the line that might be able
to speak to in terms of the coordination, uh, with
the, uh, utilities. So perhaps Mike can able to provide
some context in that regard.
Yeah. It's do I want me to just dance this
question. Go ahead, Mr. Campbell. Yes. Through you, uh, chair.
Uh, designs were kind of separate. You've got poles for
streetlights and you've got the poles for, uh, Rogers and
Hydro. So we, we had the hydro poles upgraded. I'm
not sure that like the polls that the new Hydro
poles that are in are taller than they used to
be. And they're not as brown as they used to
be. So I could do a, I mean, we could
do a, um, a review of this of where the
polls were in the past where the poles are in
the currently. But you had one design for hydro to
get their hydro lines in place. And Rogers is also
on the pole line. And we used, um, then you've
got the lighting design for the street done. And they're
done separately. And you have to have lights at certain
locations. And we're possible we put lights on the new
Hydra poles, but we also had to put some new
lights in. So there was no, there was no lighting
there before. Um, maybe just at the, I think there
was, there was a light at Cameron Street. And then
there were two lights at one at Timberlain and wanted
high bluffling, but they were the smaller, um, uh, development
lights rather than the Cobra heads that we're putting in
on, on Peel Street. So there could be a marginal
amount of overlighting at Timberlane and high bluff lane, but
that would have to be assessed. So really it's the,
we've got the new polls for Hydro and we've got,
we had to put some poles in where the hydro
poles didn't line up to where we needed. Uh, light
installed. I mean, we can, if you want, we can
go back and do a post mortem on this. But
the designs were really separate parties designing things. One, the
lighting design bar are consultant. And two, the, the hydro
design by Appco. Councillor Porter, do you have a follow
up? Uh, yes, I do. Cause I've been down the
street one of the people complain there are no lights
that work at night. That's what I've heard. Some lights
are on pole. Some aren't. Some are on separate poles.
Um, my question was though that at any time did
the municipality say to Ebco or hydro with respect to,
can we work together? Cause this is what the street
looked like before. And this is, and we don't, we'd
like you to look as close to this as possible.
So we didn't have, um, cause the stark contrast in
the number of polls. And they're on both sides. And
they are, I mean, residents have counted the polls. They've
counted this spaces between the poles there. And it really
given all the vegetation, everything that was taken out. You
go down that street and you just see these poles
sticking out of the ground. And they don't understand why
it happened that way. So as I said, the municipality
is not obligated, but there is nothing stopping a municipality
by working with Hydro One EP Corps to say, how
can we work together. To maybe have it look like?
As similar as it did before. And I'm asking, did
that happen. And if it takes a post - mortem
to get to the answer, then I'm happy to move
a motion to Undertape one. Do you have a response
to Mr. Campbell. Sure. Uh, through Mr. Chair. I don't
think, no, we never had a meeting between Hydro, uh,
between hardware, one EPCOR and the lighting designers. That wasn't
done. It's, I'm not sure if it's, if it's commonly
done anywhere. We've got a, the town has a lighting
standard for the street. So you've got your lighting designers
working with that. And you also had the hydro and
Rogers. They've got to get their lines in place. And,
you know, they, they did their design and put their
polls in. Just as another follow - up, Madam, Mr.
Chair. Is did MTE talk to them. Well, that's the,
that's the lighting designer. That's the empty. Is who is,
who is the engineer then for this? And. Through you,
Mr. Chair, Vince Pugliese with the MTE is the, the,
the lead designer for, um, The project. Council Porter, are
you, excuse me, that's, I asked if MTE had had
the discussions. You said they were the lighting people. You're
saying now they were the engineers. Through your Mr. Chair.
Yeah. MTE is the main designer and they had a
subcontractor working on the electrical lighting.
That. Aired anything.
Test test test.
Are we repaired? Okay, two minutes.
All right, Madam Clerk or Madam Deputy Clerk, we are
our microphone situation has been repaired. For now. We'll call
the meeting back to order. We are reconvened. Council Supporter.
Please finish with your comment or your question. Through the
chair, I was just waiting for an answer. From Mr.
Campbell as to how we ended up with all these
polls. And did MTL have any conversations as they were,
the designer? Did they have any conversations? Was there any
thought put into it? Because I think what gets me
is you have these pictures on the pick. This is
the before. Then we have the after, and the Star
Contrast, and really was that necessary. That's the bottom line.
Mr. Campbell, do you have a response to that? Sir,
Mr. Campbell, you are muted. Apologise. Sorry about that. There
was an coordination between the Hydro design and MTE and
their subcontractor that did the electrical design is Mighten Engineering.
There wasn't a conversation between the two. Hydros got their
mandate, which is to get power down that street. And
the lighting designer has his mandate to light the street
to the requirements of the Towns Engineering Standards. Where possible
they put the Cobra heads on the existing, this new
Hydropoles. And where they needed other lighting, they put them
on, and it didn't line up with the Hydra Pole
locations. They put in new polls for Cobra headlights. There's
16 lights that were installed. Six of them are on
utility poles and tender on new poles. That's how we
got to where we are today. Okay, thank you, Mr.
Campbell. Councillor Porter, will you be alluding to a motion
for an examination of the process on this? Yes, I
will, but what I need, what I would just would
like to understand through the chair is you say there
was no coordination. Between the players. Through you, Mr. Chair,
there wasn't a coordination meeting. How can we locate the
hydropoles to best light the streets? They're two separate design
exercise. The Hydro is, they're mandated is to get power
down that street. And on the other side, the lighting
design is separate, where they, where they could use a
hydropol to mount a light they did. And other than
that, but there's not a coordination between those two. They're
two separate design exercises. Okay. So I just have one
final comment, but I do understand that your title is
Senior Project Capital Project Coordinator. Thank you. So I will
be drafting, yes. Thank you. Okay, you're drafting a motion.
Thank you, Councillor Porter. We're going to move on to
Councillor Ardell. Thank you, Mr. Chair, and I'm just wondering,
we've had this discussion at the beginning of this Council
term from an area down in Craig Leaf. And they
wanted their designs a little bit different, because now, and
I think it was windfall, they wanted sidewalks they wanted.
All the urban standards, whereas other places in Craig Leaf,
like the rules standards. And now that more and more
people are moving up and they have children, yes, they,
and I ask that question many years ago, what happens
when you start to age in place, and you want
to go, and maybe you're on a walker, you're in
a wheelchair, and you don't have a sidewalk, or you
don't have outdoor lighting. So things are changing, and I'm
just wondering if we could have different rule in urban
standards designs so that different parts of the town, you
know, like Craig Leaf is developing, and the development happening.
But maybe we should have a, you know, different standards
and ask the communities at that time, or the developers.
What are we going to be designing here? Like, can
we have down in Craig Leaf? Some of them have
some really decorative lighting, some of them don't. Some have
sidewalks, some don't, some have curves, some don't. So, um,
I'm in rule, so I don't have anything. So, um,
it's, everybody's to their own choice. I choose to live
on an Apple farm. That's my life. So, um, you
know, I don't have water and sewer either. So those
are what happens when things get upgraded. And I think
we should have, though, I'm just maybe to Mr. CO,
Adam Smith, could we do some different designs throughout the
different types of our community? Because, you know, we have,
you know, Craig Leaf is changing down the Craig Leech
Village, which goes along Highway 26 to when they start
to develop some of those projects down there. Do they
want all this urban standards with these huge poles and
lights? And can we look at something different down there
as opposed to, and Cameron Street, too, the same thing?
Like, why do we have to have just, this is
what's going to happen. And I think because we are
a unique town. And we should be giving the town
people opportunities to choose how they want to live. And
I've been down cameras street. I have friends on camera
street, and now I know I'm sort of looking at
these poles, and maybe it is Hydro with these streetlights.
They're pretty big. So, you know, it's sort of, I'm
just wondering if we can look at two different types
of design elements for this town. Thank you. Okay, thank
you, Councillor Ardell, CAO Smith. Do you want to comment
on the Urban Design and the rural designs that we
have? For engineering standards? Yeah, through the chair. So we
do delineate between urban and rural with our current standards.
I think the challenge becomes is to what the perspectives,
particularly in the community as it relates to what is
rural versus what is urban. And I think that's what
we were confronted with. I also are background study too,
delineates on, you know, future state to say, Hey, this
road, even though it says rural now, but in the
future, based on population growth, based on, um, on those
projections, that it is to be upgraded to an urban
standard. So we have to be, particularly when we use
DCs, we have to be cognizant of what's in our
background studied, and sure, we're using that money with the
intent of that study. And then in conjunction with our
engineering standards. So there is a bit of difficulty to
say that, you know, where, um, and that's, I think,
the challenge we've seen a lot of these projects around,
you know, noting the, for the engineering standards themselves. And
when we start to go down the route as it
relates to, um, picking and choosing a where these standards
end up applying, right? Whereas it's just saying, you know,
and that's the challenge, right? When you look at my
one example around Greenfield versus Reconstruction is to say, you
know, engineering standards that we apply quite rigorously pertaining to
developments. When we uphold them to a certain standard, we
also want to hold ourselves to that same standard in
terms of applying it. But, uh, so we do have
that language in our engineering standards, but I mean, made
to that point is that the inception of projects can
always consider as it relates to, you know, where are
the risks is to say modifying that type of design.
And maybe if it's to be incongruent with our engineering
standards, which, you know, that could be council's right as
it relates to modifying that, but where we have less
wiggle room is to say, well, if it is inconsistent
with the standards by, say, external agencies or by Jessica
Engineering practice, we want to ensure we're not putting the
municipality at risk. Um, so that is some, you know,
good conversation as it relates to project scopes moving forward,
particularly for capital. Uh, is to say, is, you know,
how do we look at those modifications in a manner
that, uh, at least when we know at early appointed
time, or we've identified that those types of perspectives there
is to say, well, can we do this a little
bit differently? Or is there, you know, Hey, we do
have, usually on annual basis, a reviewer of our standards
to see what may need to change. But, uh, it
does become difficult when you look at trying to pick
and choose. And I think trying to marry against expectations
on what is rural versus what is urban. Councillor Ardell?
Yes. Thank you very much, Mr. Chair and for any
new development, definitely. But for parts of our rural down
towards Cameron Street down, you know, Bay Street, different things
we should be looking at different ways of doing things.
Or, you know, Orchard Park, we, you know, we did
a design years ago on there and people didn't like
it. So, um, yeah, I just think we should have
different types of design. That's a Councillor Adele. Thank you.
Yeah. Let's, uh, I'll just keep us on track for
this correspondence to do with Peel Street North. Um, but
I do Mr. Campbell, if you wanted to, uh, weigh
in on this, I do recall that there was quite
a bit of compromise that was, that was done on
this street. Is that not correct, Mr. Campbell? Uh, three
years, Mr. Chair, yes, there was a, there was an
extensive process of coming up with, uh, this unique road
cross section, uh, we went through the first process of
select determining whether, um, a rural road cross section would
work or as laid out in the development charges background
study. This was supposed to be developed as a, uh,
the town's urban standard, which at a 1. 5 metre
wide sidewalk, uh, 8. 5 metre wide asphalt. Um, it
is a unique situation because you're trying to fit, um,
you might maybe call it a round peg into a
square hole, but you're trying to fit a road into
an existing, um, um, lay of the land. And the,
the rural road cross section just wouldn't work because the,
the resultant ditch depth to drain the road structure would
have backslopes well on deprivate property. So this was a
compromise of we went down to seven metre wide road.
We looked at three different types of a sort of
an urban rural. Feel of the road. And this was
the one that was selected. So that this was, Oh,
it added, uh, and I'm more than a year to
the project and it was, uh, extensive consultation. And this
was the road selection, the road section that was selected.
Thank you, Mr. Campbell. Okay. Madam Mayor, go ahead. Thank
you. Through you the chair to add to Councillor Adeles
Remarks, I think when I look at the correspondence and
I'm looking at the correspondence ask, it's simply to reflect
on moving forward and how we might. So I think
there are some good points raised by Councillor Adele that
each and every scenario may be different and that we
should have different options and choices moving forward. I think
it's very helpful to have taken this in. This is
now another example that can be demonstrated in the town
when the next decision making happens. What is it that
works here? What is it that doesn't? What would make
sense in that particular occasion? I think the CAO has
added some good details too that, um, above all as
well, the reason we can't return to the way that
things used to look is because standards have changed. Safety
standards have changed. We need to be able to deliver
securely minimize risk of the town that we're delivering everything
we need, whether it's light at certain increments, whether it's
the widened sidewalk, all of these things, the correspondent is
simply asking that we take this into reflection of the
future. So I can support a motion that would take
that recommendation from the correspondence and keep it in place
that we can deliver. Um, I have no problem with
the way in which the staff has coordinated this project
because there are so many moving pieces to this. And
as we've heard examples about couldn't just take a cookie
cutter example and make it fit here, everything had to
be this. But what about if we did it this
way? It's been a long Folsom, thoughtful process. And I
appreciate the staff and being able to coordinate not just
the decisions that we make, but also that there are
entities with the utilities that we don't get to control.
Thank you. Thank you, Madam Mayor. Councillor Hope. Yes, thank
you. You know, building on all parts of this conversation,
Councillor Porter and I took a trip down to Southampton
to see what they had done on what they called
cottage roads. It was very impressive how they were able
to take a street above the size of Bay Street
and simply, uh, keep to the same size of street,
keep to the same character being a big word in
the Tom of Mountain Mountains. So that's really what we're
talking about is maintaining our character. So when we have
something like this where we look like Toronto or Mississauga
or whatever, that's not what people came up here for.
They, they came up, uh, for the character of the
community. So there was an opportunity here to maintain the
character didn't exactly happen. So I think what we want
to do is to be very careful in future. So
it might mean engineering standards for, uh, for cottage road
style, which there is a prototype for that from, um,
from Southampton. And I'm sure probably other municipalities have taken
it as well. But, um, we've had a lot of
learning between Bay Street and Peel Street. Let's take it
and let's communicate well with our staff. And at the
same time ask, but most importantly, communicate with the community.
So if there's the right public consultation, then we don't
have this after. Everything can come out before, which is
what, uh, I think we should strive for. And it
seems to be with reconstruction where it's most important because
what was there before isn't looking like, what is there
now? And that's the character part. That's why people move
up here. And of course love being here. Thank you.
So I guess what my follow - up would be
is, um, can we look into this? And two. And
I think we asked, I recall, um, after Councillor Porter
and I must have gone a couple of years ago.
So, um, what through you, um, Mr. Chair, uh, to
the CAO, what can be done to explore what Southampton
has done or what the cottage road, um, protocol where
that is at the moment and how we might be
able to, uh, take the learnings from other municipalities. Thank
you. All right. Mr. CAO, with you can answer within
the context of, uh, this is, this is a piece
of correspondence to do with peel street north and reflecting
upon our finished product. Please go ahead and we have
a motion. We need to get on the floor. We
have a lot of other reports to do to please
go ahead. Yeah. Through the chair. And there has been
previous direction with respect to that type of analyst and
study. And just with some, some recent turnover, I would
say. We're looking at shuffling some of that work as
it relates to getting that going. We do have a
proposal with respect to something similar to, uh, what was
done in the Southampton area. And, uh, we are working
out reviewing that with the new lead for that project.
But, uh, I once say it's the solution to making,
uh, everyone happy is with respect to some of these
designs, but that is in flight. And, uh, we're just
looking to get that, uh, that moving. I mean, I
think this is a very important point. We're following what
the community is looking for. So, um, well, this has
been going on for a little while. Um, you know,
for the last couple of years, this discussion has gone
on. So I'm really hoping that, um, we can have
a better car route than just that we're talking about
it. You know, what, what, what is staff doing about
bringing forward cottage road protocols, however you want to call
it. And, um, getting council's busing on it. Thank you.
Yeah. Through the chair, I think my expectation is associated
with this project is BV atendendum or it'd be some
type of, uh, as it relates to our engineering standards,
which we bring back to council. So, uh, just working
on get that once again, that project in flight, but
I am keen to move on it before, before the
end of the year, uh, and to what you'll be
able to report back to council on what some of
the results of that study. Thank you very much. Okay.
Councillor Porter, do you have your motion into the Deputy
Clerk? I see your hand Councillor Maxwell. You've had a
question and a follow - up. We need to move
along. I'll get to your question after the motions on
the floor unless you'd like to second it. We have
a motion from Councillor Porter that Town Blue Mountains receives
for information on the July 17th, 2026 correspondence from Gary
Tile. Resident regarding a reconstruction of Peel Street and that
Council, or sorry, and that, uh, The Peel Street North
Reconstruction Project has resulted in a significant increase in the
number of utility poles and related streetscape infrastructure compared to
the pre - construction condition. And that residents have expressed
concerns regarding the visual impact streetscape character. And overall appearance
of the Reconstructed Corridor and that it is important for
both Council and residents to understand how the final design
evolved, what decisions were made during the planning and implementation
and whether alternative approaches were considered. Therefore, council direct staff
to Undertake and Report back on a post project review
of the Peel Street North Reconstruction Project, specifically addressing, one,
the number and location of utility poles that existed prior
to Reconstruction compared to the number and location installed as
part of the final project. Two, the decision - making
process that led to the final utility and streetscape configuration,
including the roles of the town, utility providers, consultants, contractors,
and regulatory agencies. Three, whether the alternative designs or utility
arrangements were considered to minimize the number of poles and
associated streetscape visual intrusion. And if so, why they were
not pursued. Four, any changes made during detailed design or
construction that resulted in additional poles being installed beyond the
original state. Five, opportunities for reducing pole, proliferation and improving
streetscape design on future road reconstruction projects. And six, recommendations
for council consideration to ensure future projects better balance infrastructure
requirements with community aesthetics, design, objectives, and resident expectations. And
further that Staff Report back to Council before October 6,
2026 with the findings of the review and any recommended
improvements, uh, to the town's project planning, design review and
utility coordination processes for reconstruction capital projects. Oh, a second
then. That has been moved by Councillor Porter and seconded
by Councillor Maxwell. First and foremost, I'm going to go
to, um, director, or sorry, not director, CEO Smith, The
timeline, uh, that is something that can be worked with.
That's what jumps out to me first. Yeah. Through the
chair, I believe we do have a committee, The Whole
that precedes on, is on the October 6th date, so
which I think we should be able to have sufficient
time to bring that report back. But I'll talk to
following this meeting speak to the project team on that,
uh, on that, uh, on the timeline. Okay. Thank you
for Meek. You're not clear. Councillor Porter, go ahead. Yes.
I am through the chair of two things I want
to say. It can be on or before. I'm willing
to extend it to October 6th. If it comes then,
that's fine. Cause that's a cow. Second of all, through
the chair, I'd like to build on what pouncer hopes
it. The funding for the cottage streets project was in
the 2025 budget. I did follow up with several times
with the former Director of Operations. And so it's coming
up because it was discussed before the 2025 budget. So
I think, and I realised that there has been change.
But before that, there had been a year. And this
is kind of, um, it's quite important. There was an
allocation of funny. It wasn't a budgeting concern. Um, I
know they've had conversations with them. And they are an
engineering firm paradigm that did them in Southampton that just
seemed to have a different point of view. Um, and
in Southampton has many similar characteristics to us in the
sense of street layout. They have, um, similar or smaller
right away. Their cottages get, you typically get demolished bigger
homes built. Um, but they really maintained and kept that.
And so I would like to see that wrapped up
sooner than later because it's been something that's been hanging
there. Um, and could benefit, um, reconstruction projects. Thank you.
Ciosmith, do you have a response to that? Yeah. Through
the chair, as I mentioned previously, we are, we are
committed to working through that project and getting that going
this year. Thank you. Councillor Maxwell. Go ahead. Thank you,
Chair. And thank you, Councillor Porter, for this. What I
was going to build on, uh, Mr. Campbell's, uh, comment
that, um, the utilities job is to sell their product.
Now I'm just wondering when they're selling their product, do
they also offer the fact that you can maybe have
underground or you can have poles. Cause I know when
the private world, I can have an underground service or
I can have a poles. So I'm just wondering if
that option was ever brought up to the public and
two council for us to consider as an option. For,
uh, Peel Street. Or even bastard. Mr. Campbell, I'm sorry.
Okay, Mr. Councillor Maxwell, Mr. Campbell, uh, do you care
to comment on that? I'm sure it's wildly expensive, but
go ahead wherever you went. You've disappeared for my screen.
Uh. Mr. Campbell, you're having, uh, there you are. I
think you're muted. Sorry. Uh, chair had turned things off.
Um, we. Just did The Last Council. There was a
question came up in the last Council about, um, hardening
the town's infrastructure by burying existing, um, hydro and communication
lines. Uh, and we looked at that at, uh, for
Tharnberry West phase one. And the, uh, it's, it's something
on the order of, it was more than a million
dollars per kilometer to bury a hydro system. And there's,
if there's things that come out of that as well,
you've got houses that are going to have to rework
their electrical systems because now they're having a buried service
rather than overhead service. So it gets pretty complicated and
it was at that time it was, um, basically we
looked into it really expensive to do. And they said,
thanks. I don't think we can add millions of dollars
to our capital reconstruction projects. So specifically looking at the
question was never asked on Peel Street, but it would
cost to put things underground. That wasn't, that never came
up. Because we'd just been through the exercise with Thornberry
West. And it was, it's just impractical to consider that.
So to answer the question, was it was putting the
infrastructure, the utility infrastructure underground appeal street. That was never
specifically done. Councillor Maxwell. Thank you, Mr. Campbell. Yeah, no,
I appreciate that. Uh, Mr. Campbell, uh, but I do
believe it should be an option. To, for Council to
consider. And the Public, that's all. It shouldn't be just
flat bang. That's the way it is. I do, I
would like to see it presented to the Public and
to a Council. Thank you. Okay. Thank you Councillor Maxwell.
Uh, Deputy Mayor Barneau, go ahead. Uh, thank you. Um,
through the chair. And as we kicked off this conversation,
I was talking about coordination with utility and then taking
a look at, uh, different standards. Um, you know, we've
talked about cottage roads and things like that. Um, I've
read the guidelines over the past few years from soggy
inshores, uh, where that's governed. In this case, the project
scope changed. We did a seven metre, um, asphalt roadway.
Cottage roads are 3. 3 each side to 3. 5,
which is, you know, 6. 6 to seven. So we're
almost within the cottage road. As much as, um, I
think the issue is on the utility side of this,
the extra polls we had to have for street lighting,
uh, for hydros. So I think that coordination can go
a little bit further. Um, but we had to, you
know, adapt Georgia Trail parking in this. Um, many of
the residents were worried about the safety. So remember we
had to reprofile the peak of the road. So the
lot that went into this, this design, all that being
said, if we can coordinate better with the utilities, I
think is key factor. And that is, that is buried
within the, um, within the Carter George guidelines from Soggy
Insures is a utility tie in. Cause I think if
there wouldn't have been that many hydro poles, overall we
did delay this project almost year and the Public Consultation
was huge. And we tried to fit in everything that
the Public wanted hence the seven metre road, the two
point, you know, we looked at the malt, looked at
multi - use trails at the time. We looked at
the street lighting standards. Um, reprofiling the peak. And then
restoration of, um, disturbed areas when there had to be
some brush cutting. So a lot of those things have
been addressed. But at the end of the day, are
the residents happy. And I think the utility side of
it, which is less at our control, but maybe a
better coordination. We'll be able to, and maybe this report
will be able to show us as we move forward
in the future. Um, if we take something that's going
to be an urban standard, but is there a mod
in that section? So I think the CAO committed to
that with his new director of Ops comes on board
and we can look in each project as a silo
as opposed to, um, just, just as a blanket brush.
So I'd be able to support the motion because I
think it will, um, reflect forward for next projects. Okay.
Thank you, Mr. Deputy Mayor. All right. We have had
a Folsom discussion on that. Let's Staff wanted to respond.
I'm not seeing any indication. We're going to, uh, call
that boat, please, Madam Deputy Clerk. The vote is open.
For me. Thank you, Councillor Maxwell.
That boat is closed. That vote is carried with, uh,
Councillor Hope, Councillor Maxwell, myself, Councillor Porter, Deputy Murgnon, and
Councillor Ardell voting affirmative and Adam Mayer Matrosofts voting in
the negative. Now we'll move on to item B 4
points. Uh, sorry. B 3. 4. Acting recording secretary, the
Blue Mountains OPP Detachment Board regarding solutions of support traffic
calming and speed mitigation techniques. If you have any questions
regarding this piece of correspondence. Deputy Mayor, please go ahead.
Uh, thank you very quickly. This is an easy one.
Just with the, um, removal of photo radar. They're just,
uh, from what I've gathered, we're looking for additional funding,
um, different misspellers, look at additional funding from the province
to help with other mitigation measures. So I think it's
just a matter of letter of support on this. And
then, um, if that's what council's will is. So when
you're ready to move, I'd move that we support this,
uh, recommendation. Okay. Thank you, Mr. Jeff. A second. Seconded
by Council Reporter. Thank you. Councillor Maxwell. Go ahead. Oh,
thank you, Chair. I was just kind of wondering what
counts are L1 does to do with this. But anyway,
so anyway, um, so I was reading the correspondence, North
Granville and Merrickville are pretty similar to our little town
here. So, um, I can see what they're thinking about
for tourism and speeding and all those kinds of things.
So I support this. Okay. Now Councillor Adele, I didn't
see if your hand went on. I saw The Mayor's
hand go up. So I'll put her and I do
sit on the board. So, um, I'll let The Mayor
go first and then I can go second. Thank you.
Madam Mayor, please go ahead. Thank you. Through you the
chair. Yes. Um, Councillor Dela and I, uh, you know,
had good reflection and thought and discussion and move these
motions because, uh, what it's trying to do here is
the province has said, okay, we get those of you
that were using photo radar. You need some sort of
financial compensation to do some other things. This ass that's
come through the OPP boards, but also is being reflected
in support from the appropriate municipalities those two municipalities that
form that detachment Board have simply said, look, it makes
sense then that those of us who don't use photo
rate are also have access to funds to be able
to improve safety and speed reduction program. So that is
the simple asset. It's done in fairness that just because
we didn't have photo radar. We'd still like to be
able to have an opportunity to be able to pursue
that. And I'd like to pass it to my colleague
on the detachment Board Councillor Adele. Thank you Madam Mayor
Councillor Ardell. Go ahead. Thank you Mr. Chair. And yes,
I agree with everything. Madam Mayor has said. We thought
this would be better circulated through our council and see
if we could get support for this. So, um, yes,
I was hoping that I could move this, but that's
fine. It doesn't matter. It's been moved in duly seconded.
So we will discontinue on. Thank you very much. Okay.
Thank you, Councillor Ardell. So the motion is that count
move by the Deputy Mayor and seconded by Council Reporter.
That council, the Talboy Mountains received for information that July
18th, 2026 correspondence from the Acting Recording Secretary of the
Blue Mountains OPP Detachment Board regarding resolutions of support, traffic
calming and speed mitigation techniques. And that Council supports the
recommended resolutions of support traffic calming and speed mitigation techniques.
Any further questions on the motion on the floor. Seeing
none. Madam Deputy Clerk, please call that hope. Is open.
Councillor Porter, my I assist. I voted affirmative. Thank you.
Thank you. That mot is post. A vote is carried
with all present voting in the affirmative. Now we will
go on to item B 4. Sorry. Yeah. Yeah. B4.
1. Block 29 register plan 16m - 14 deeming bylaw
recommendation OPS. 26. 046. Mr. Campbell, I believe you brought
this report forward or is Mr. CAO taking it. Mr.
Campbell. Uh, yes. 3U Mr. Chair. It's a fairly the
report's fairly simple. We sold Glock 29 to 189 Peel
Street. Uh, their entrance wasn't going to work. So this
was, uh, this is discussed in multiple Staff Reports. Are
there any questions that, uh, Council has on the, uh,
on the report. I will pose that for you, uh,
Mr. Campbell. We have a Councillor Maxwell. You have your
hand up. Go ahead. Not really a question. It's kind
of a bit of a request, I guess. Um, Mr.
Campbell, could you put a map up there on the,
uh, board forest. So the Public and C where this
is. Just, I know we know, but perhaps they don't
know. I don't believe it's part of the source materials.
And Mr. Campbell is remote. Yeah. I can't. So. I'm
sorry, I can't, I can't pull anything up for you.
Okay. Okay. Then we know. Thank you. Any further questions
regarding this report. All right. Well, we have a recommended
motion that Council receive Staff Report OPS dot 26. 046
entitled block 29 register plan 16M dash 14 deeming bylaw
recommendation. And that Council and Act, a deeming bylaw pursuant
to section 50 bracket 4 end bracket of the planning
act to deem block 29 registered plan 16m - 14
as not being a registered block within a plan of
subdivision. Do I have a mover? So moved. It's moved
by Councillor Ardell, seconder. I will second. Second by Madam
Mayor. I don't see any further hands. Madam Deputy Clerk,
you may call that boat, please. The vote is open.
That boat. Is closed. That vote is carry with all
President voting in the affirmative. We'll now move on to
item B 4. 2, drinking water analysis for PFAS or
PFAS PFAS OPS dot 26. 034 manager Kershaw. I will
give you the floor. Go ahead. Drew, you Mr. Chair.
So the town undertook some PFOS testing in July, uh,
which, we tested both the treated and the raw water
coming into our treatment plant. So just bear with me,
sorry. Health Canada currently has a drinking water objective. So
it's not a limit. It's an objective for PFOS of
30 micrograms per litre. So that's parts per trillion based
on the sum of 25 specific people PFOS compounds to
be detected in drinking water. Uh, this is not the
objective is not a regulatory limit. However, it's a benchmark
for drinking water systems. We found that through basically through
both samples, most of the compounds were below the method
detection limit. So we, uh, have no way they're below
that they can actually analyse for. Uh, we had a
total sum of about two parts per trillion of, of
the identified 25 elements. Our compounds. If you have any
questions, please let me know about this testing. Okay. Thank
you manager Kershaw. Any questions to, manage your Kershaw for
this report. Councillor Hope, go ahead. Yes. Thank you. Thank
you for performing the test. Um, I think we want
to be clear, like based on what the report is
saying that under financial impacts, um, the concern here and
the reason for asking for the PFAS, uh, has to
do with the fact that there is the Mephritank range,
which is just north of us. And the work going
on there. And we know that it's one of Canada's
most contaminated sites. So that's why we're checking for the
drinking water, or sorry, looking for PFAS, which basically is
often a byproduct always a byproduct from a military training
unit. And it's, you know, the forever chemicals. They're very,
very dangerous. So the fact that there's been an increase,
I'm surprised that we now have two. And I don't
know which ones they are, um, that are above the
parts per trillion. So I'll ask for a clarification in
a minute about that. I see you shaking ed. That's
what I'd understood. That there's so, it seems to be
an increase. Um, but as I said, that's my, one
of my questions. Um, okay. Well, why don't we get
into that? Manage your Kershaw. Would you clarify that? I
heard two parts per trillion. Two parts per trillion. There's
no really significant increase. There's, you're at the method detection
limit. That's as low as you can test. So it's
the same about the same as from the previous analysis
that we did. So the health Canada objective is a
total of 30 parts per trillion. And we're seeing about
two for the total sum of the 25 compounds and
only two of those compounds. We were able to test
because they were above the method detection limit. So the
method detection limit is as low as you can go.
It's not, it's below 30. It's that's, that's the science
that's available today to be able to analyse for that
particular compound. We're very, very low. Really low. It's so
low. It barely registers is what you're saying. It doesn't
for most of the compounds. It didn't register. That's right.
Right. Uh, and that was, thank you. Uh, but there
is a trend because the last time when we had
it done, it was even lower is my point. You
know, it seems to be that there's been an uptick.
And I guess that's my question. I'm not a scientist.
I don't pretend to be. But at the same time,
I'm very worried about a drinking water. And councillors are
responsible for drinking water. Personally, responsible. So, uh, you know,
this is not a concern to be blown off. This
is, you know, this is PFSAs. They're PFAs are forever
chemicals. We are located. We're located. And we want to
watch very carefully. No matter what the cost is. For
the testing. We want to be watching for any trends,
especially since the boring holes being done right now by
TCE. So we don't know what the impact is on
the water. So as I understand it from the report
that we did the year before, which I would have
been great to have had a comparison then for those
of us that don't have the knowledge. If you think
that it's the same as it was before, then I
think that's what needed to be said. So is it
the same. Or is there an increase from what I
read? Councillor Hope. To you, Mr. Chair. No, there has
been no significant increase. No. Okay. Which wish it had
said that. Secondly, because we're reading this is not, not
easy. The second thing that concerns me about this report
is under financial impacts, which is on page three, in
which is written PFA's analysis and drinking water does not
have a direct financial impact. However, if this becomes a
regulated compound for a drinking water system, there will be
financial impact due to the high cost of analysis. So
when we have discussed the cost of analysis in the
past, it was my understanding. It was 1400 dollars in
total. Could you please confirm that that is the case?
Managed Kershaw. Through you, Mr. Chair, the cost of this
analysis was 1039 dollars for both samples. So if we
were going to test this regularly, we'll have to increase
our water testing budget. Oh, budget. I mean, I just,
what can be more important right now than to be
checking for forever chemicals in our drinking water. And to
call this, uh, that this should get in our way,
the high cost of analysis, Councillor Hope, I'm going to
just jump in here and say that, uh, there's no
indication that we're not checking it. We are checking it.
We're mandatory. All right. Counter, manager, crucial. S misunderstood what
I said. The chair is misunderstood. What I said. I
am talking about that, that it's been put forward that
it's a high cost of analysis. So should there be
future analysis? So what, what that sentence is doing is
discouraging future, uh, requests for, for PFA analysis because of
quote, the high cost of analysis. Councillor. So I find
it, I find it, uh, getting close to misleading. Thank
you. Thank you for clarifying your question. Okay. I'm going
to say that first and second manager Kershaw. I'm sure
what this means is that it is raising the budget
for what we normally allot for for testing. That's what
the financial impact sessions for. Please go ahead. So this
test is, is higher priced significantly higher priced than our
average run of the mill testing E. coli total coliform
heavy metals organics. It is higher. There will be an
impact and we will increase as per the direction, uh,
previously in the year to test this when we do
our yearly samples. We will increase our budget for testing.
Every line item in our budget is mapped out. We've
done essentially a zero base budgeting and we, we know
what the cost of our sampling is. It's a broken
GL code. And we'll be raising it to cover the
cost of this. So far. So what does that sound
punitive? I mean, really what we want to do here
is to protect our drinking water from a very obvious
situation. So on a, on a budget as large as
the water budget, fine. It's a thousand dollars a year.
I want to be very clear. We're not talking about
every month or every day. So we're talking about a
thousand dollars. And so to, to position it as a
high cost of analysis, certainly against the risk is something
that I find concerning. And I'll, um, and, um, that's
fine. Let's put it into the budget for next year
then. And I hope that that is clearly made as
a line item so that we're all clear that testing
for PFSA in future is going to be a line
item in the budget of a thousand dollars Thank you.
CEO Smith. Through the chair. Just a couple pieces. I
think one as it relates to obligations under the safe
drinking water act. I know that even as staff too
that we also have a fiduciary responsibility as it pertains
to protecting the health and safety of our, of our
water supply. So what are reinforced even on annual basis
from a top management meeting. We do have those discussions
are where the emergent risks as relays to water supply
and talk about any type of mitigation measures that do
need to take place. I think to the point around
the, once the staff of recommended is that based on
the testing to date based on the, uh, the, the,
uh, mandatory requirements from the ministry health as well is
to say that, you know, we don't necessarily recommend that
testing, but to the point of the cost is to
say depends on how the, the extent to which we're
going to be doing this testing. If it's going to
be something that we're doing on a monthly basis versus
something that's more of an annual test. But the results
today have not given those flags to say from a
particularly from, you know, from my perspective is to indicate
that no, no, we do need to test it on,
say a monthly basis. And that's where we get into
the, to the costs, right? Is to say each test
relative to our other testing that's occurred, say even at
that, uh, even just over a thousand dollars to get
that done is that cumulatively over 12 months if we're
doing it on monthly basis, that is more significant than
safest annual exercise. So Council can direct as it relates
to, uh, to, uh, to, uh, pursuing further testing. But
the cost comes into play when it comes to the,
uh, comes into the extent or to the, to the
number of tests that we want to complete. Thank you,
Mr. CAO. Follow up, please. You can have, yes, go
ahead with your follow - up. I've got to move
on to Councillor Max. Yes. So what we don't want
to see anymore is hyperbolizing a yearly request. Nothing has
gone to monthly at all. It's not been raised. But
so, by putting that forward, this high cost when it
hasn't been present or been requested seems to be not
exactly a fair reaction to a very simple yearly request
to have the forever chemicals tested in any waters. But
certainly when we're at risk because of what's going on
just north of us. So thank you for the explanation.
And I certainly look forward to, uh, to the budget
item. Thank you. Okay. Thank you, Councillor Hope. Unless you
had a response to that, CAO Smith. Go to Councillor
Maxwell. Thank you, Chair. And thank you.
Smith for that on the obligation under the safe water
drinking act. I'm just wondering. Where do natural recurring elements
and microplastics fit into this. That fall into the safe
water drinking act. Do we know. Manager Kershaw. Uh, they're
emerging contaminants. Uh, they're not regulated at this point in
time. We meet our regulatory requirements. We test everything that
is required under the safe drinking water act. Schedule 23
and 24 are sent out every year. Uh, we do
it March, April. Every year with a surface water intake,
we're required to test that once a year. Had we
been a well system. We'd be required to test it
every five years. But we are a surface water intake
and it's tested every year, uh, for scheduled 23, 24.
So that's your inorganics and your organics. But the merging
contaminants are not a requirement right now. We do address,
we do review the emerging contaminants and additional risks to
the drinking water system through our drinking water quality management
system. And we do a risk review every year. And
we look at what's coming down the pipe, what's being
regulated through environment Canada. But the safe drinking water act
does not require them at this point in time. Oh,
up Councillor Maxwell? No answered perfectly. Thank you. Okay. Thank
you. Seeing other hands. We have a recommended motion that
council receive Staff Report OPS dot 26. 034 - Entitled
Drinking Water Analysis for PFAS. Yeah. Pfas for their information.
Do I have a mover. I will move. Move by
Madam Mayor, secondary. I'll second. Second by Mr. Deputy Mayor.
Seeing no further hands. Madame Deputy Clerk may call that
vote, please. That vote is open.
Affirmative, please. Thank you, Councillor Porter. Not vote is closed.
That would have carried with all seven members voting in
the affirmative. We'll move on to item B 4. 3
2025 water and wastewater capacity report OPS 26. 033. Manage
your Kershaw. You have the floor. Through you, Mr. Chair.
So this report is a report that's required by Grey
County for, um, allocation for drinking water and wastewater systems.
It's prepared every year. And it is available. The full
report is on our website. And I'd like to highlight
a few areas. If you could go down to, uh,
where we talk about the water system, it's about. If
you just don't mind slide scrolling down.
Like this, actually, if you don't mind going all the
way down to attachment one. I believe. Oh no, I'm
sorry. I'm sorry we did miss it. I'm looking for
the big pie chart here. It's on the top of
page four. There we go. So our drinking water system,
you can see that we have 11, 000, 110 units
either allocated or connected to our drinking water system. There's
2, 800 units that are reserved and 2, 200 that
are available for reservation. This includes both what we can
produce at the water treatment plant and what we take
from Collingwood for maximum day of 1250 cubic metres a
day. We are getting a little tight on drinking water
capacity. If we consider that we increase the units by
about 200 units a year, year over year based on
a 10 year rolling average, that gives us, uh, about
10 years, eight years for comfort zone, uh, before we
have to be looking at an additional drinking water supply.
Also identified through this report is the Aerohead water booster
station that transfers water from the water plant to everything
in Craig Leith. Uh, everything east of Aerohead Road must
go through the arrowhead booster station with the current capacity
of that station. We have availability for 86 more units.
And that's based on everything that we know that is
already allocated or, or reserved, uh, that's not a lot
of water. It is tight. Can you actually urine wastewater?
Now, can you please stay on the water. Thank you.
Uh, I am concerned about the arrowhead booster station. It
is undergoing a construction. We do not anticipate that's construction
will be done until next year. Uh, that will take
the firm capacity of that station up from 68 litres
a second to 100 litres a second. However, our trans,
our transmission main cannot support the 100 litres a second
going into that station. The town has to look for
every opportunity that we can to, uh, twin our main
between our water plant and the east end. So every
reconstruction, whether it be Bay Street, which we did thread
in a secondary, uh, trunk main through Lakewood Drive, we
are proposing to thread a secondary, uh, trunk main through
that. We have to take every opportunity. We can to
incorporate secondary trunk means to the eastern end. It is
a challenging water system. We do know that during irrigation
times of year, uh, this, we're just kind of coming
off the shoulder of it now. Our water plant is
running full out. And we are struggling to keep up.
Our irrigation. Takes up a lot of our drinking water
system. We'll go from about 5, 000 cubic metres a
day up to almost 12, 000 cubic metres a day
coming out of that plant. It's a hard push. I
just want you to be aware that we are reaching
our limitations. So if you can scroll down to the
Thornberry Wastewater treatment, the Tarnberry wastewater treatment plant now.
Right there. Yep. So the design capacity for this wastewater
treatment plant is based on our newly expanded treatment plant.
Although we will not be able to fully realise this
capacity until we get this outfall built. The existing outfall
does not permit the capacity of the plant. However, I
did the calculations based on getting that done as it
will be done this year. So as you can see,
we're. I'm sorry, I can't read that for. About 3,
700 units connected or allocated to the Thornberry Wastewater Treatment
Plant almost 1, 500 that are reserved and 1700 that
are available for reservation. We have started in the design
work for the phase 1B expansion of the treatment plant.
However, we may take that design and shelf it and
not undergo construction at this point in time, but it's
good to have the design in our back pocket and
ready to go should there be a funding available. So
we are working through that design right now. Uh, some
of the limitations within this treatment plant right now are
the Meal Street Pumping Station, which is under construction. Uh,
we've just signed the contract and we'll be construction. We'll
be commencing shortly. Uh, and then we'll go down to
the next one is The Craig Leth Wastewater Treatment Plant.
Right there. This one we have lots of capacity. This
is a big plant. So we have about 6, 000
units connected or allocated 2, 500 that are reserved and
almost 5, 000 that are available for reservation. We're running
at about 42 percent capacity. One of our biggest limitations
for this plant is our Craig Leith Main Lift Station.
It is under construction right now. And we anticipate the
construction to be reaching substantial performance by the end of
the year. So, uh, in the Craig Leetheria, we're doing
fairly well. So in order to maximize our, either our
water system or our wastewater system, we need to address
our drinking water leaks. Our leaks within our system and
they can both be on the private side and on
the Public side. We did have a new addition to
staff. A water technologist who is focused on strictly leak
detection and I and I reduction. So inflow and infiltration
reduction into the wastewater treatment system collection system. We have
had some really good successes in the last year. We
have reduced our water loss by over five percent in
the last year. And we are seeing a reduction, a
small reduction in our INI. So our peaking factors are
reducing. In the last year. And we will continue to
move ahead. I do want to give a nice shout
out to our drinking water operators. They did find a
fairly significant leak in our drinking water system in the
last couple of months. And it's equivalent to about 500
cubic metres a day. So this was a really good
find and it has been, has been repaired. So we
are working towards that, but we are coming up against
capacity in our water system, our wastewater. We have a
bit of breathing room. Please let me know if you
have any questions about this report or if you like
the full actual capacity report. It is available on our
website, but I don't usually provide that through, through the
Council meeting. Thank you, manager Kershaw. Uh, we're going to
kick it off with Deputy Mayor. Go ahead. Thank you
Councillor McKinley. Yes. Chair, through you to Ms. Kershaw. Thank
you, Allison. More focusing on the ILI. We're looking at
the infrastructure leakage index. Uh, we're looking around 24 percent
if my math is right when we look at non
- revenue water versus, um, real leaks. So I see
a significant reduction as we move forward both in brakes
and in leaks detection. Do you attribute all that to
the, um, to the scoping we've been doing to the
new technologist. And will we see a trend continue to
get within, um, even better standards than that 24 percent.
Do you miss a truck go ahead. To you, Mr.
Chair. Actually, we've taken some pretty aggressive action in the
last year. Uh, we've started monitoring, uh, putting bulk metres
at condo development. So before we, we didn't have bulk
metres going into private lands where there are a number
of residential units. And by doing this, we've been able
to find some connections to irrigation systems that were not
being metred or build, uh, so that's a significant find
for us. These are challenging installations. We're digging up. We're
putting a big chamber in the ground and installing a
metre. But it's proving to be really worthwhile. And I
really have to thank, uh, our previous director Quinlan who
was instrumental and really providing as funds and the motivation
to really get some of this done, uh, but the
water team has been very aggressive. Our new position is
working on it. But I wouldn't say he's fully up
to speed in addressing all of the, uh, water loss.
This is what we've saw that took place over 2025.
And I'm hoping that we continue to see this trend
of at our water loss reducing because that buys his
capacity. And that's, that's what we need. So we do
continue to work hard and reconstruction of Bay Street Thornberry
West, all these old areas of town where the infrastructure
is leaking is making a big difference. It's really helping
us out. It's, it's really, uh, we're seeing some significant
improvements. Follow up Deputy Mayor. Just thank you, Mr. Chair
through. So do you see an opportunity to get us
from, cause we're in the good range to get into,
I think we're at 2. 5 in that range. I
think the benchmarking is to an under, um, to move
to the next category. Do you see that? Um, as
possible taking, you know, the mitigation measures, uh, I think
some of the recommended are better pressure management active leakage
control practices. And of course, improve network maintenance. Do you
see an opportunity to get to that number the next
year or two. Manager Kershaw. I would definitely like to
think that we do have the opportunity to get there.
We are working very hard to improve our leaked detection.
It is a challenging system. We do have a very,
very challenging system. It's long. It's linear. We have a
lot of estate type lots with long, uh, service connections.
So from the main to the house where it's not
metred, there's a big setback and the potential for a
lot of loss within, within the private lands as well.
Um, and we're right along a shoreline so that when
we do have a leak in the water system, it
can go away unnoticed. It just slips away into the
bay. Being a shale type, uh, Terra firmer, it gets
away quite quickly and doesn't surface. It isn't forced up
where we are able to identify that. But we are
using a lot of different technologies. We still are maintaining
our, our leak detection contract or contractors being out. And
he listens to every curb stop, every valve. And he's
listening for leaks. Um, and additionally, we have PVC pipes.
A lot of our pipes are PVC. The sound does
not travel with a leak as well as like a
ductile iron pipe. We have our challenges, but we are
working hard at it. Yeah. Thank you for that, especially
with the with the shale. It's hard to see water
going into water. Maybe we can look for green grass
on the driveways on the way in for that. But
no, it's been a great job from getting to the
number that we have been over the past few years.
Thank you. Okay. Thank you, Mr. Jepheni Mayor. Councillor Hope,
go ahead. Yes. Thank you very much through you, Mr.
Chair, uh, to manage your Kershaw for this really important
information. Because I think it's going to be guiding a
lot of our decisions for a long time. So we
want to look at this capacity very, very carefully. And
you'll remind it, we want to make sure we have
our numbers right. I'm not saying they're wrong at all.
We want to make sure we have our numbers right.
So what's drawing my eye is allocated units. Because I
know from a planning perspective, we're still counting in castle
Glenn. And I think, um, and, and, and so, so
we are. But I think there are certain ones. And
I think there was some discussion even about some carsburg
numbers in, but maybe I'm mistaken with budget. But, um,
but I'd like to understand what allocated units means and
to Ms. Kershaw's 200 units a year. I don't think
we're going to reach that this year. I don't think
we're going to get anywhere near 200 units. And maybe
if the CAO would speak to that. So if we're
at a hundred a year, that's going to mean we
can, we can build the structure later on. Of course
there's construction, the increase in construction costs that also is
a part of all of this. So the longer we
put it off, the more we have to pay for
it. But what I think the Public is looking for
because of what's happened in the past is a very
carefully structured, uh, well - supported numerically accurate decision on
what we actually need for particularly a water infrastructure. So
through you, Mr. Chair, to the CAO as, um, the
director of planning, at this point you're feeding the numbers
I gather to the water group. So allocated units. Is
that something that we could look at again, uh, or
do you feel that you've done some betting on that
number? Thank you. See you. Smith. Yeah. Through the chair
can certainly start. And then perhaps manager Kershaw can add
to it. So when it comes to, you know, for
allocation and I think that something, you know, an example
is a for, you know, Castle Glen whereby that's not
been allocated. Right. So you want, that doesn't, that, that
site also doesn't have reservation. And all you'll see in
the Folsom reports was bound within our, our official plan
policy is the staging that we do have. And that
is where there is that work and coordination between planning
and water wastewater to understand, you know, when we're compiling
this report is to note, you know, what is, uh,
what's, what's within this, this classification system. So, uh, we,
but, you know, to the, to the point is that,
uh, when we, we do need to look at tools
as it relates to, to manage that managing that allocation.
I do know I still have a, uh, draft allocation
bylaw that I'd still like to move forward as, as
an example of a tool to utilise, to, to support
some of the, uh, the constraints we do have. Uh,
and I would say that, you know, from these graphs
as well is that, you know, and something that's within
more of the Folsom report and maybe it's not so,
uh, is so apparent visually here is around the constraints
we have from the command side. So from magic Herschaw's
point around, you know, this long linear system and the
difficulties as it relates to, uh, having the necessary infrastructure
being at pumping stations or otherwise, that's where we say
even to say, whoa, we may have these number of
available units at the plant, but we may not have
the ability to actually get that, be it the water
or the sanitary through the necessary pumping stations or through
those pipes, uh, which creates a bit of a mercury
story on where we actually stand in terms of providing
that allocation. But when it comes to new developments, we
always exercise is, and this report is utilised, but it
needs to be taken its entirety to say that just
because we have space or units at the plant, we
do need to have that downstream analysis to say, Hey,
well, how is it going to get to the plant?
So when we look at constraints, be it, um, even
at the Craig Leaf wastewater plant whereby, you know, we
do have a report here talking about the long point
reconstruction and the works there. Well, the corregly plant does
have that available capacity. So once again, it's a challenge
of actually getting it there, right? And to, to relieving
some of those, uh, and that is certainly a major
area of focus in terms of our own capital program
is investing in that. On top of looking at things
such as INI, looking at ways to address irrigation as
another, uh, another pressure point to, to really maximize the
space we have and hopefully mitigate that capital program as
well. And as eliminated its entirety, but perhaps it allows
us to defer certain projects or to, uh, to look
at doing them in a, in a, in a different
way. But maybe Andrew Kershaw may want to add a
little bit more. Inter Kershaw. Strew you, Mr. Chair. So
to answer your question allocated units, they're either connected units.
So a unit that's already connected has water waste water
to the house. Can't connect. So a parcel of land
say you have a vacant lot services go right by
a house. They can connect at any time. So that,
that they're given allocation. So committed, um, subdivision, that they
have, uh, achieved basic services. They're connected to the town
system. They're committed. Uh, they're not turning back. So that's
an allocation. And then we also have another category, uh,
not, not fronting, not serviced, but an existing, um, building
lot is there. And they do have the potential to
connect. So that, that's what's in the allocation. So, and
you did mention Clarksburg prior to doing the expansion at
the wastewater treatment plant. The town had an agreement with,
uh, The County of Grey, because the county is involved
in the allocation when it comes to new developments that
we were allowed to overallocate and not include the Clarksburg
potential. We, we've now met that, uh, condition of the
expansion. So now we have to include those into our
numbers. So they are included when we look at the
water and wastewater systems that they can connect. Because we
have done EAs and we have considered connecting them. So
they are, uh, not in the allocated, but I believe
we do, uh, look at those numbers through the potential
to connect to the system. Follow us. Follow up, uh,
Councillor. Oh, thank you. Um, thank you to both of
you for, for this, um, this is looking more like
an art than a science in terms of trying to
figure this out. I mean, I personally would like to
see, um, where the allocated units are coming from with
the numbers are. And, uh, The Reserved units I gather
are by a certain portion that needs to be set
aside. So we'll leave that alone. But we have things
like developers who aren't necessarily going through with their commitments,
uh, we've got a lot of things that could be
happening right now that could have an impact on our
capacity or on our allocation. Um, so, um, I just
think that we need to look at this much more
carefully. I'm not saying you aren't. I think more information
available to council would be really, really important so that
we can make a better call because the big difference
between needing, uh, I think it was a planton eight
years or versus maybe it's 12 years. Uh, because of
the growth. And I'm just pulling out numbers. But that
from a planning perspective, the numbers and building up a
reserve fund and so on, it makes a big difference
to have that time. And I think it's time that
we need right now so that we can be putting
money aside and be in a better position. So we're
not borrowing, which is clearly not what the Public wants.
So, um, I'm just wondering through you, Mr. Chair, if
we could have more detail on the allocated units. Madden
for Kershaw for drinking waters. So thank you. All of
the units counts. I've worked tirelessly with our planning department.
Jean Postman, I have worked very closely together with her
GIS to determine who has allocation, who has reserved. So
a development that's not moving ahead, they may have reservation.
Until they actually get, so a development in process is
in the reservation category. It's not in the allocated until
they have basic services and they're connected and we have
the, uh, subdivision agreement already confirmed. Then they move into
allocation. The 200 units a year though, that's based on
a 10 year rolling average. It's hard to take year
over year. We had some years where we had 400
units connected to our drinking water system. That's why we
take a 10 year rolling average. We don't just look
at the last year or, or the last two years.
We look at what's coming, what has been historically increased
year over year. Okay. So just to final, so thank
you. Lots of good learning here. Um, so I see
the point about needing to understand what's in the reserve
as well. And it's very helpful to know the Clerksburg
units are there, which is 400, 300, 400 units or
more. Six. Or 600 units. And, um, so through you,
Mr. Chair, could we, could we have a breakdown of
where the allocated and the reserve units are designated so
that we can start to make more informed decisions about,
uh, what we need with costly infrastructure. Thank you. Manager
Kershaw. Through you, Mr. Chair, the full breakdown, it's in
a spreadsheet in the complete report that's posted on our
website. It's on the second last page. There's a, we
break it down by area. So it would be craig
leaf. Clerksburg Castle Glenn Osler rural Thornberry, Thornberry West, Camper
Down, I'm not sure if we break it. I don't
think we break it down into Laura Bay. It's just,
uh, Thornberry West, but they all are broken down. And
it's additionally broken down into connected, allocated, reserved, future lands.
And then the total amount that we need to service
the primary settlement area of the town of Blue Mountains.
Excellent. I look forward to going through those numbers. Thank
you. Okay. Thank you. CEO Smith. I did see your
hand or you're OK? Okay. Uh, we're going to move
on to Councillor Maxwell. Thank you, Chair. Okay. Question for
Alliston. So, you know, building on that, we're definitely in
a period of saving and not spending. We all know
that, I think. The question is, Allison, if we maximize
strong maintenance programs. And conservation measures, can we hold off
a new infrastructure in order to protect our taxpayers and
their citizens until the economy turns around. Andrew Crewshaw.
The answer is yes. It's, it's through Mr. Chair. So
the answer is there is a potential to reduce, uh,
some of the needed infrastructure needs. Um, but it would
be something like in the order of no irrigation, no
putting water on grass, no treated water going on grass.
The city of Vancouver has done that. You can water
your shrubs. You can water your flowers. You can water
vegetable gardens. But a hundred percent ban on irrigation of
treated water on grass. So there is a potential there.
That would really increase our capacity at our water treatment
plant. But it's not a pleasant, it's not a pleasant
outcome. I, we do have a lot of irrigation systems.
We have taken an aggressive approach this year to try
to curb the peak with our bylaw. We do find
that there are people that you're a gate a heck
of a lot. And I mean, unbelievable. In the order
of 42 or 48 cubic metres a day, which is
an enormous amount of water to be putting on grass,
um, so there are opportunities there. We have to remember
though, infrastructure such as water and wastewater has to be
built before houses can be built. We can't have houses
with portaes. We need houses that are connected have available,
uh, capacity at our water and wastewater systems. We can't
wait to enlarge a wastewater treatment plant until the sewage
is arriving at the door. It's too late. We're going
to have sewers back up in basements. We don't want
infrastructure that's too big. We don't want to do it
too far ahead of time. We want our infrastructure sized.
We'd like to be running in like that 60 percent
zone, 50, 60 percent of the capacity of the plant
We don't want a huge plant. They're hard to manage.
There's too much work. We don't want to maintain pumps
that we're not using. We want our infrastructure sized to
meet the growth in the next 10, 15 years. And
when we do build infrastructure, we want it built in
a way that it can be enlarged easily so that
we build platforms and pipes in pumping stations that we
can throw another pump in when we need to. We
don't have to reconstruct a wet well. We want our
water plant to be able to put a bigger pump
in, put another rack in of, uh, Paul membranes or
whatever membrane we end up with. But build the concrete
and steel to meet the 100 year mark, but build
the pumps and the, uh, internal capacities that have a
shelf life of 2025 years so that we're meeting that
2025 year deadline. And when the pumps are coming at
the end of life at that point in time, our
growth is keeping up that we can just replace the
pumps to a bigger size pump. I'll answer your question
Councillor Maxwell. You have a follow up. I do have
a follow - up. Go ahead. Okay. So thank you
for that answer. Okay. Cause that. Speaks to a lot
of things even last night. Okay. So my question is
though. Wood watering your lawn fall into a core service.
Because I know water, delivery water and wastewater. But where
do we want to do aesthetics here. What is the,
what we deliver quarter services here in this town. Where's
the magic line where we start saying to people, you
know, what is core and not core here. And I
shall you, Mr. Chair. I would say that, um, that's
a nice to have, uh, it's, it's nice to have.
It's not a must do. It's not an essential service
to have irrigation on lawns. Uh, but it's, it's a
something that we have provided for a number of years.
And it's a nice to have. All right. Councillor Maxwell.
Yeah. So I guess what I'm going to comment is
that in this new world we're entering. We may not,
it may not be a nice to do that we
can no longer provide. Through you, Mr. Chair. We do
have, uh, water conservation methods measures in place right now
for our irrigation. And we can water every other day.
I know, I believe it's orange field. They, they are
watering. I believe once a day, I could be wrong,
but I believe it's, so they're allowed to water one
day a week. That's it. Not every other day. Just
one day every week. So there are measures. And our
next level of conservation measures that are within our drinking
water, uh, bylaw would take us to that next level
so that we could water once, once a week. Okay.
Okay. Thank you. Thank you. Okay. I don't see any
further hands. We have a recommended motion that Council receive
Stafford for OPS 26. 033 entitled 2025 Water and Wastewater
Capacity Report for their information. Do I have a mover?
I will move. Move by the mayor. I'll second. Second
by, uh, Councillor Ardell. I see no further hands. Madam
Deputy Clerk, you may call that boat, please. The vote
is open.
No vote is closed. That vote is carried with all
seven members present voting in the affirmative. Now we'll move
on to item B4. 4 Craiglith Wastewater Treatment Plant upgrades.
035. Manage your Kershaw. You have the floor. Through you,
Mr. Chair. So the town has received the 30 percent
design packages and the 30 percent design cost estimates for
the long, uh, for the upgrades to the Craig Leith
Wastewater treatment plant. And those upgrades include seven scopes of
work. Uh, the linear works on long point road, of
which I've already provided Council with the 30 percent design
estimate. The construction of a lift station at the Craig
Lethways Water Treatment Plant. Construction of Accepted to receiving station
at the Craig Leth Wastewater Treatment Plant, screening and grip
removal at the, at the plant replacement of the existing
motor control centre. So the MCCs at the Treatment Plant
and replacing an upsizing of the backup generator as well
as replacing the existing blowers at the treatment plant. So
if you scroll down to the bottom of page. I'm
not sure. Three. We have the breakdown. As you can
see, some costs went up a lot more went up.
Some came down. So the linear works as you were
aware. It had gone up almost 17 percent went up
51 percent. The septage receiving station almost 80 percent. The
screening and grit removal 18 percent The motor control. It
went down almost 70 percent The backup generator went down
the estimate had increased about 20 percent design
What we're dealing with and our consultants also reviewed other
estimates that were coming in for similar type work and
seeing what the market would bear If you have any
questions, please direct them towards me Thank you manager crusha
CEO Smith. I'm going to toss it over to you
if you had any further comments. Now through the chair
I just leave it to council if there's any questions
and comments in between manage your Kershaw and I happy
to address them Thank you all right. Thank you CEO
Smith Councillor Ardell you have the floor. Thank you Mr.
Chair and if we could scroll back down to page
three. And four. If you add up all of the
figures I get a different figure than 42 million I
get 45 million. Is there an error there or what
is that Major Kershaw is having a technical issue. Oh
your mics are out. There you go.
Uh Through you Mr. Chair. Actually that is a there
is near and there when I put those numbers in
they included The engineering. So that that's why they increase
and the next column is just the construction costs That
was my ear I'm sorry There was a lot of
staff reports going through in a short time So it's
45 million then The next column is 30 percent design
50 million is The construction cost Just the construction cost
We've already paid we've already got committed funds for the
engineering and that's right through Uh The end of warranty
for the engineering So what is our end figure then
for increase or decreases Then it'd be different at 19.
5 now Well actually the 42 million is the construction
cost Oh okay the 42 million does not include engineering
The engineering was added in the individual line items So
it is it's roughly a 20 percent increase. So 23
cent increase. Okay so it's not decreasing its increasing Okay.
On the total of the seven scopes of work Yes.
Okay thank you. Do you have a follow - up
Councillor Eidell I'm not right now I'll let other people
I'm just still doing figures here Thank you Yep No
problem I can come back to you Uh Councillor Porter
go ahead. Yes thank you and through the chair and
thank you Ms. Kershaw because I actually did the motion
That resulted in this report. Because I had concerns about
long point. Um, back then. Um. I have some questions
Because I've gone back and I'm missing one page on
the report that I had printed out What I'm going
to go and find it here. Yes it's page five.
When it talks about the wastewater. Existing units It actually
states here that this The concrete and steel constructed to
support The full build out of sewers of the sewer
washed. Approximately 5500 units. Whereas I'm just going to go
through all my concerns here So whereas. In one of
the grant applications It talks about the full build out
of the Craig Leaf Sewer shed. Would account for 17,
380. In another spot It counts that the full build
out of the Craig Neeth wastewater surface area is 14,
016. And I realised it says here that. So
The first number here, the 17, 380 came from The
Water and Wastewater Capacity Assessment 2022 year report. And one
of the grant applications was around The Hughes. Was full
build - out of Craig Leth Wastewater Services 14, 116,
and that there was already 5, 518 existing equivalent units
currently connected. And then Mill Street Pumping Station within the
Hughes had said about The full build - out Down
of Blue Mountains. Um... Relating to Mill Street was 9,
100 units. When you even talk about The 14, not
the 17 I mean we're getting up to 24, 025,
000 units And I don't think we have that many
So if I go back to page 5 I want
to know what the sewer watershed is Sewershed is that
Sony's supporting 5, 481 units in the long - term
and what long - term is in terms of years.
Major Khrushchev. So you're talking about some different sewer sheds
Uh... When we talk about The Craig Let's Wastewater Treatment
Plant Sewer Shed We're including what's Coming in through The
Craig Leth Wastewater Craiglyth Maine Lift Station and The Long
Point Road Lift Station So the two separate entities Uh...
So the long point road Sewer Shed Uh... Of which
we're talking about The 5, 000 5, 500 will include
Um... Windfall Uh... Coming down Grey Road 21 I believe
some of Second Nature goes through there. Uh... And anything
that we develop beyond Uh The Intersection of Grey Road
19 and 21 were Tease Pleases are the previous T's
please So that will include Castle Glen It will also
include Some servicing that we will be providing Uh... To
Clearview Township We are looking at providing services Additionally to
Clearview and a little tiny bit of Collingwood Um. Well
when we're building this. Because... We may as well If
we're building a pipe And we have the capacity at
the plant Why not take their revenues. Like they're gonna
have to pay for part of The cost of constructing
everything that we're constructing When we talk about The Craig
Leth... Wastewater Treatment Plants Sewershed We also include Everything That
comes in through Craig Leaf Main Lift Station Which would
be The Village at Blue And each one of those
Hotel Units is equivalent to the residential unit So when
we start talking about 24, 000 units That's not out
of line Of what we anticipate in our full build
- out. We review these every year through our wastewater
capacity Assessment Report The report that just Uh... Our previous
report That went to Council Uh... We look at every
development lands and what potentially can be serviced in these
lands We look at... The area of the land And
we minus... The hazard lands that are on the lands.
And then we look at what is buildable... What is
a buildable area? And what is our Town density? Whether
or not a developer comes in and builds to The
full density That's what changes That's Where our numbers are...
They're not concrete Because not every builder builds to the
maximum potential density But that's what we design our systems
for So between 2022 and 2026 or 2025 There have
been some developments that were built That did not build
to the full density But we allowed for that density
through these studies And when we're building infrastructure But once
it's built And we know what The density is That's
when the numbers start to change. Follow - up So
yes Because I will... I have more than a follow
- up Because I wanted to know what long -
term meant in terms of timing Because I didn't get
it Because I guess I would like... I think that
was on page 8 I wanted to know What does
long - term mean. Mensch Crucial Go ahead In terms
of years Like you have a series of You know
short Medium whatever What do they mean in going out
You never know if you're - 10 20 And then
full build out of a primary Settlement area So I
guess the question for me And I do have a
motion I would like to put forward I'll just make
that noted Okay Thank you. Because I have real concerns
about this. I have more concerns than when I made
The original motion. How far out are we building. How
far out are we building And we know building is
flat. A lot of builders say nothing's gonna happen We're
in more uncertainty as of 1159 on Friday night than
we've been in before. And The user fees come when
it's done The development charges come when the houses are
bailed In the meantime And I see from another chart
here All the annual debt payment Which amounts to over
3700, 000. A rough estimate is for every 200... That's
the annual servicing debt charge. If you have to pay
And if I'm wrong someone can correct me as I
go along. Approximately just short of a quarter of a
million raises the tax levy by one percent. You're well
in the double digits of attacks increase Just for this
project And the hug's dead in there that I don't
understand. And it's not about And the chart says The
Town can have all the capacity in the world. To
take debt on. It's The people in this room The
people sitting around the table Anyone that lives in the
Bloom Mountains are owns property It's 0 affordability. To service
that debt There's very different questions That the Town's ability
to have an amount of debt They get the line
of credit Whatever you want to call it That's their
financial measure. People fund in the bill The taxpayer They
have what's called an affordability measure. And what I'm calculating
when I look at that amount of debt Divided by
is I'm hitting like 15 16 percent. So I'd like
that clarified Because I wanted to know what the contingency
was And there's some verbiage around that. Debt is also
The cost of a project. The carrying charges to service
the debt before it is used is in effect a
cost. When you build a house The financing is a
cost. Because you have to pay and you don't really
get a lot forward Except for that you have cash
flow So I'm extremely concerned about And I don't understand
all the different numbers that have gone in the different
application forms. They because the variety of them And just
and by and saying this is in the long point
Watershed Where we only know the numbers for the Quith
Water Shad I think we need a lot more detail
to know what we're doing And when it comes down
to the other component of the motion So I'd like
the numbers Um... That we have. Reconciled So we know
the numbers we're working at Like how many houses are
currently serviced? How many are going to get built. And
when they're going to get built Because I'm not sure
if the community wants to bankroll Infrastructure for 20 years
out. That's a really good question I think And it's
a difficult question. Because I know you're Alison. You can't
manufacture sewer capacity on demand. So there has to be
some give and take But that's subject to some conversation
The other thing is the value engineering And I think
there is... Staff appear to be willing to consider phase
in. I think value engineering exercises needs to consider that
What do we do to build now and what do
we need to do to build later? Because they're very
different Because the debt cost you put that annual debt
cost on a tax levy is permanent for the length
of the whatever mortgage you want to call it It
doesn't go away. And it detracts some other things people
might want to have in the town It's serious money.
So and I'd like to do that And I want
to know what the cost is going to be. Going
out Like you say The engineering costs have been covered
for the project Is that money that's already earmarked on
a reserve Or is this money that is going to
have to be funded by future debt? I don't know.
But I have real problems with this And I cannot
just receive this I have emotion I want to put
it forward It can go for Council of Discussion But
this is really a high stakes financial discussion Okay in
my mind Excuse me Thank you council supporter I've heard
your question We need to let manage your Kershaw answer
some of the questions that you've put into your statement
there So we're going to do that first and foremost.
Andrew Kershaw Please go ahead. Three you Mr. Chair I'm
sorry You're going to have to bear with me I
can't remember all the questions Honestly I was trying to
write them down But I'm doing the best I can
So the engineering costs included in I believe in the
2023 2024 budget It was approved We're spending that This
is how we got these estimates This is how we
got to 30 percent design The money is has been
It's in a BVR It's locked away So that The
engineering is covered Number one. Bear with me I understand
The costs are crazy We when we build When we
build a Wet will say When we're building a sewage
pumping station Sewage comes into a Wet well We have
two choices We can put pumps down in the Wet
Well Which is cheaper Or we can build a Wetwell
Drywell Where the pumps sit in a dry area We
get longer life out of the pumps When you get
to bigger pumping stations. We look at what well drywall
configuration But we only want to build that Wet Well
once We only want to build that In the ground
structure once So that will be built for full capacity
We will put pumps in there that are sized for
today. So that and to see that the next 15
years worth of growth Uh. That is a cost saving
measures Because as those pumps We don't want to put
pumps in that are going to meet the full build
out of the Of the shed Because by the time
those pumps come to the end of life We will
not have seen that capacity We will not have seen
The flows that are required So and we don't want
to have extra pumps there that we have to exercise
and maintain Just in case we get that flow. I
can't predict what's going to Who's going to build what
today or tomorrow? This isn't We are in a little
bit of an unusual situation The Town of Blue Mountains
has seen Uh, slowdowns in growth for a year or
two But then it picks right back up And this
we're in that lull right now We're definitely in that
lull. We're not the same We don't see the same
growth and the same growth patterns that they do in
Toronto We're a totally different dynamic And one of the
things that goes through my mind is that We're at
the stage where we're seeing a lot of the baby
boomers Retire and relocate here Has that wave ended or
will it continue? We are at the end of the
baby boomer retirement phase It's the next phase that our
retiring that is a much smaller amount of The population
So will we see a growth return? I don't know
I don't know I can only go on What I
know we need And based on the past 10 15
20 years of growth. Is the best that we have?
We don't have 2020 vision into the future to see
what's coming down the pipe We do know that infrastructure
projects such as these Do not happen overnight They don't
happen in a year There's a lot of work A
lot of work in these And I know the numbers
have gone up But that's reflective of the type of
engineering that we're doing We're doing a lot of background
information We're doing legal surveys We're doing groundwater surveys boreholes
to really understand What the conditions are so that we
can put a really good solid tender out there Uh,
for construction We're also very worried about tariffs And the
fuel prices And that's why some of these numbers seem
really escalated It's because of the state of the world
right now We're seeing huge tariffs We're seeing oil prices
going out through the roof There are some really serious
concerns about projects like this I understand what you're saying
about The debt load and the cost of this project
It's... We have to be able though to accept growth
If we look at our... Our mission statement Our municipal
strategy One of the key pillars there is to ensure
our infrastructure is resilient to accept growth And if we
don't have the foresight to look ahead and to see
where our limitations are We're going to be in trouble
We're not going to meet one of our goals is
to be able to accept growth. I'm sorry if I've
missed some of your other questions. I Just like to
have a follow - up Please And I know I
spoke because there's a lot in here There's a lot
of unanswered questions And thank you very much. I think
what I'm looking for in this is that Uhzik Klee
We need referring to the strategic plan It is about
The financial health of the town It is about making
evidence - based decisions We're at D - level and
we're over A up. Ep We got three more to
go I wouldn't be surprised if it's way more Even
with the value engineering I'm just looking at can we
sort of build as we grow and how you would
do that You talk about The Wet Well That's the
big infrastructure But it's how many pumps go in there
at the time And how many you can do. The
scenario But like nothing's happening right now And it is
The burden then falls on the taxpayer. Not the users
of the system The taxpayer Which is rural and urban
rural people don't get to turn the top on And
have the waist go down a waist pipe And I'm
just saying In the sense of the different numbers we
have of units When you look at the Hughes funding
application You look at that Uh, water application You did
last June And you look at The numbers here And
the wastewater capacity They're all different And I think we
need a reconciliation Like what are the numbers we're dealing
with and we work with them And we project it
out. Because that's the way it can be more evidence
- based And what is the cost if we move
So when you in that page 8 If you move
from a short - term to a longer - term
build Act What is the cost of the community to
bankroll? What is the cost? We don't know And yes
The 19 - point 1 million was a hit A
burn And I learned quick And I just see this
happening again and coming with a surprise And I'm not
prepared whether I sit here or I'm a taxpayer You'll
have me come do deputations Is the we need to
make informed decisions that is transparent to the public So
how much is each extra amount of build - out
gonna cost us? And why? And that's what I want
to see And I want to see not just value
engineering as a blanket I wanted to have some direction
And I also want to know The Public needs to
know And this is maybe for Chickadee for finance to
help you out It's how much is this going to
cost in debt. And how long do we get locked
in for the debt. And that's money that just is
gone And it can't be used for parks and all
the other. Things people want to do That's what I
want to see And I have it all written down.
Through Mentha Crushaw And then I have CAO Smith that
would like to speak to you So some of this
supports growth And some of this is asset replacement When
we look at the blowers The backup generator The MCCs
Although they're going to facilitate some of the growth They
all We also need those to keep that plant running
We need to stay in compliance We need to run
good wastewater treatment plants We need to protect The natural
environment in Public Health The MCC Sir Existing The Blowers
Uh... The Grit Removal The Grip Removal is really a
health and safety Uh... Consideration If you saw how we
deal with grit and Debris collection at The Wastewater Treatment
Plant It is not a pretty operation We have operators
that go out twice a day And manually Rake Off
screens. In all weather In the middle of winter And
they're up on top of these basins And not very...
Not a very pleasant Uh... Health Environment Health and safety
environment.
That is not good municipal planning to have a sceptage
receiving station in the middle of a residential area. The
oars and the issues that create for the residents is
not very pleasant. This should be at the wastewater treatment
plant. We're also considering, and I've had correspondence from residents
about constructing an RV dumping station. We do have a
huge tourist population that come into this town and they
need somewhere to unload their RVs when they're coming. So
we will be building that with the sceptage receiving station.
Additionally, we have other counties, Simco County in particular, that
have contacted us about delivering leachate to this wastewater treatment
plant. We have the capacity at this wastewater treatment plant
to deal with the lead sheet from Simcoe County. And
it's a good revenue stream. And we should be banking
that. The cost of the septage receiving station, we hope,
will be revenue, will be revenue zero, because we will
be increasing the revenues that we're collecting at the Wastewater
Treatment Plant. Okay, thank you, Manja Kershaw. CAO Smith. Through
the chair, I just, I think you need to reinforce
as it relates to this report. And I think underpinning
it is the evidence, right? And I think what, you
know, when we look at projections themselves, and the only
going to be so much in terms of a degree
of confidence, when we look at those longer term projections,
to the point earlier that was made as part of
the Capacity Report is that a lot of this is,
yeah, when we look at lands, our designated, or earmark
has released density or what those lands potentially have the
capability of housing as relations units. But we really don't
know until there's an active development application that comes forward
to embed within that design. I think what is an
important piece to recognise and what this reports brought forward
here in the prior report brought forward? Was the execution
of a value engineering study in the design phase? So
that's a reflection as it relates to the prior projects
within the Bay Grey and Mill Street. There's a sense
that we should never be new in these studies kind
of after you've already have the design stud, design completed.
Do it now while the design is ongoing. And a
lot of the considerations, I think that Councillor Pores put
forward. I'd like to embed within the scope of that
exercise to understand. And I think to the point around
phasing is to look at, and the combination between what
is ASTRA replacement versus on what is driven by growth,
into which there could be different time requirements for those
different scopes in which they can be spread out over
several years? Or does it all need to be done
at the present time? We can also look in the
deeper dive as a relationship material is to release to
the types of pumps we use. So there is definitely
going to be a comprehensive exercise in conjunction with the
engineering that is ongoing. But to when we look at
from a budget standpoint, that's kind of the intent with
this report is to say that we're not proceeding to
construction with the 50 million mark this year. That is
something that we're going to need to consider as part
of those future budget years or what we as Staff
are prepared to bring forward a council is analysis around
the options. I think we hear loud and clear, especially
with some of the numbers and troubling numbers pertaining to
how that may impact our debt capacity moving forward is
we need to look at how can we modify this
design to be within the means of both the taxpayers,
as well as the rate users. But we also need
to look at other tools as well, including a new
wastewater rate study to ensure our rates are reflective of
what those asset replacement needs are, as well as looking
at through development charge front ending agreements. We know that
DCs and one of the big issues here, we are
not collecting them in a timely way, especially given the
current environment. We also know the legislative changes that really
look at back loading as it relates to the timing
which makes even more difficulty in terms of a certainty
of when this revenue is going to come forward. So
through front ending agreements, if it is really dependent on,
say, those growth needs is looking at the industry to
come forward as it relates to using or providing credits
for, uh, for that work that is so dependent on
these projects embarking. So I think that's something to really
just be clear for councils that we are in that
we take heed of as a relations to the fiscal
constraints. And we also know that there's more to come
to modify that number because frankly, yes, to 50 million
is creates anxiety. No one on the Stas end as
it relates to how we are going to be able
to afford it as well as how that impacts other
projects and going into the more of the discretion items,
which I think a lot of folks want to see
done really to our parks recreational amenities and things like
that when we're so focused. There's so much resources have
to go into what is critical related to maintaining our
assets or accommodating the growth that goes into our water
wastewater systems. Thank you, CEO Smith. All right. Now I'm
going to go on to Deputy Mayor Barneau. Thank you,
Mr. Chair, through you. And, um, looking at this in
its totality, looking at long - term debt when we're
at 30 percent engineering is hard to do. Um, by
a couple of questions I do have is, um, first
and foremost, each year of projects delayed, we averaged three
to five percent increases That being said, looking at the
scope of the phasing of this, we have to look
at the long - term financial roadmap as well as
the infrastructure. We have over a billion dollars. In infrastructure.
And then to maintain that, even if you take at
a, between one and one five percentile dollars in infrastructure,
because it's, say, two thirds of our equipment or our
infrastructure, um, asset management's in great shape. The third, as
we progress in age, we need to reflect that. So
it's not all new build. It's also maintaining the asset
management. So we need a good roadmap for each. So
I guess my question, um, Ms. Kershaw is, um, number
one is. At declass engineering, um, do we see that
increase? We've seen that before. So are we comfortable with
D - class or do we see that escalating number
one? Number two is our, my percentage on construction increase
on an analysed basis, um, by postponing a project accurate.
Thank you, Crucial. Go ahead. After you, Mr. Chair, I'm
going to answer your last question first because it's most
president in my mind. Six years ago, we would have
said we see both two percent increase. And tariffs. So
I think three to five percent would be very low.
I think we probably up around 10 percent increase when
we consider what's going on in the world economy and
we're supplies come from, uh, when we look at infrastructure,
especially, uh, linear infrastructure, so much of it is dependent
on hydrocarbons, whether it be PVC pipe or the asphalt
or there's a huge impact based on the price of
the oil, a barrel of oil. So I would think
that we might be up around 10 percent per year
and delaying, we'll drive the costs up. When we consider
we're at 30 percent design, I will use an analogy
from, um, a council reporter about being in health care.
This is like walking into your emergency room. Uh, running
tests. So we're at 30 percent design We've done a
lot of pre - assessments, uh, like the, this is
when we undertake all our studies and up to the
30 percent design My wishful, my, my heart, uh, hopes
it doesn't increase, but my brain tells me it will.
We always find more unknowns as we go, uh, what
is the cost of that piece of equipment? Whoa, what's
the pipe that we required to connect that piece of
equipment to the rest of the system. We're tying in
every piece of wire and everything else in the costs
of every other component that's required. We get into the
nitty gritty when we start getting into 90 percent So
we really know what we're, what we're dealing with. But
we are trying to be conservative and use a healthy
estimate. We did look at the estimate that the tender
bids that we received from Mill Street for the for
the pumping station and we looked, because when we get
a tender bid, uh, we look at everybody who submitted
this a bid to do that job. And it is
broken down into the different components, whether it be electrical,
mechanical, concrete, uh, structural. And we did compare, uh, the
costs of that and the volumes and the size of
the pumps and everything else. So we are really trying
to do a very good, a very thorough investigation at
the 30 percent design. But I can't tell you it's
going to go down. Follow up Mr. Predier. Yeah. Thank
you for that. And you know, I see just that
alone, The One Rock we're talking about and the 2.
2 million dollars just because physically what's there. Um, so
if we go from, um, looking at the 30 percent
design, am I right from memory that we'd be probably
in the contingency 2025 percent at that level is that
about right? I have read some papers where they say
a D classes minus 25 percent plus 50 percent. But
we run plus or minus 25 percent based on a
D class. Thank you. Councillor Maxwell, go ahead. Thank you
chair. Um, I have some questions. I guess there are
more, cause I think everybody's been talking about finance here.
I think I'm going to talk about is. Some illegal
which translates into finance and the first question I'm going
to ask is, are we legally mandated to grow by
the province. Yes or no. And then I'll move on
to this devil. Major Gersha or CAO Smith. You want
to take a stab at that. Through the chair, yes.
We do have obligations around accommodating growth. When we look
at other tools at Municipalities had to employ when, uh,
say there is not the necessary, the ability to look
at expanding, say, capacity. There's been interim control bylaws and
things like that. But they've always been tied to study
or an analysis that would be required to further support
that growth being, uh, to be enabled and to, to
the future. So, uh, we, we cannot look at, uh,
a practice as it relates to essentially, uh, not pursuing
these expansions to supply and essentially looking at indefinite development
freeze. We would be, uh, that would be a risk
to the municipality. Follow up Councillor Maxwell. Yeah, I do.
Okay. So. Um, yeah. What I'm looking at is, um.
On the MTO, uh, refusing permission across I - 26.
If we realign the water course. We're going to have
to go meet a whole lot of regulatory compliance with
agencies, whether it's conservation authorities or ministry of this and
that. So that's going to add to some. Legal burden.
The other one I'm wondering about too is. Some, uh,
maybe ongoing agreements that we have currently with maybe subdivisions.
Um, we have front ended. Have they funded any of
the growth at all. Do we know. That's where you,
Mr. Chair. Go ahead. Okay. So let's go back to
the MTO intersection. Uh, we started, um, meetings with the
MTO beginning of this year to figure out how to
get the sewers across Highway 26 on grey road 21.
The ministry came back, um, Ministry of Transportation, uh, came
back and said, we are undertaking an EA and environmental
assessment right now to determine how we're going to control
that intersection, whether it be around about or signalized intersection.
When we started our discussions with them, they said we
have not come to a conclusion on how we're going
to control that intersection. But however, we do it, the
work will be done in 2027. And your sewer better
not be in our way. If your sewer is in
our way when we go to Reconstruction, you will pay
for every day that we delay their construction. So MTO
have made it quite clear that they do not want
our infrastructure in their intersections. In order to accommodate that,
we are taking this sewer up. We'll be travelling at
West along the side of Highway 26. To get beyond
their intersection. The sewer will dip down and go below
the water course. And then once we're beyond their water
course, it'll cross over, cross north, across Highway 26. And
then we will travel back east along the north shore
of Highway 26 and go underneath the water course again.
And then start down Grey Road 21. Our long point
road to ensure that our gravity sewer is not in
their intersection. We also had some communications with calling wood.
Callingwood have a water main that comes to an end
at Silver Creek Drive on Grey Road 21. And we
said, Hey, we're going to be crossing Highway 26. Do
you want us to put in a sleeve for your
water main? A long point road. Right now, the town
of Blue Mountains provides water to the Collingwood residence on
the end of Longpoint Road. And when we started looking
at costs calling would say, no, I think we'll undertake
that work at another time. We're not going to participate
in that work. So that, that the cost of that
work has increased. That was the most significant increase to
the linear works. And I believe we added almost 1.
5 kilometers of water main or sewer main by having
to do the jog round. So that was the significant
cost to the linear works. Oh, I'm losing my mind
today. I forgot in your second question. I'm sorry. Go
ahead. I wondered if we had any agreements that were
locked down that, you know, maybe a close session. With
her. Through you, Mr. Chair. So we haven't done any
pre - servicing agreements in the Craig Leith area for,
for water sewer. We have been pre - building it
for development to come in to support, uh, resilient growth.
Cool. Yes. Councillor Maxwell. Yeah. Okay. So I just want
to make a comment, I guess. So. The financial risk
and the legal risk seemed to be fairly high on
this project. Anyway, it looks like, you know, we're at
30 percent, but we have no idea what the cost
will be at a hundred percent. We do not want
another episode like the last time. And it looks like
we're heading that direction. So, um, anyway, um, I'll have
to have a look at see what Councillor Porter has
her emotion here. Thank you. Uh, yeah, men's Turshaw in
response. Uh, so I guess I want to comment through
you, Mr. Chair. I'll provide a few comments. Um, this
project we were proposing to go to a valued engineering
at 30 percent design That should eliminate, uh, any extras
or unnecessary costs. We will look at maximizing our design
and being very conservative of what we install to make
sure we're utilising the user rates dollars as best we
can in the taxpayers, Money the best we can. So
our next step with this project is to undertake a
30 percent design review. Additionally, we do have a risk
registry going on with this project. And we understand the
risks of the decisions that we're being made for this
project. So, um, previous projects, I don't believe, uh, we're
communicated 30, 60, 90 percent design estimates. This is a
request of council and we're proceeding to make those publicly
available and available to council to understand where we're at
with projects. Final question Maxwell. We got to get to
a mark. Thank you, Gerald. Okay. Thank you for that,
Elsin. So when they do the value engineering and they,
they're going to stand behind what they say that 100
percent. Magiswalk. So valued engineering is an exercise where we
look at what was designed. And this is, is this
the best solution? Is this the best life cycle costing?
Is this the best infrastructure to install to reduce risk
of both construction issues and long - term issues to
the town? It's not about, uh, examining this cost and
saying that this cost is a hundred percent guaranteed at
the end of warranty. Things do change during construction. When
you're in this kind of construction, there are decisions that
are made that change minor, the minutiae within the project.
A fairly frequently. But we have contingencies that we roll
with that because we haven't maybe identified every single light
bulb or things like that. Valued engineering does not guarantee
the price. Valued engineering tells us that we're getting the
best value, the best life cycle costs, the best product,
uh, or the most. Cost effective product for, for our
taxpayers dollars. Okay. Thank you, manager Kershaw. So I don't
see any further hands. Councillor Porter did indicate she had
a motion. I'm going to look to Adam Deputy Clerk
to put that motion up on the board so I
can read it aloud for everybody to hear and absorb
that council, receive Staff move by Council Reporter. That Council
receive Staff Report OPS dot 26. 035 entitled Craig Leith
Wastewater Treatment Plant Upgrades. And that Council Direct Staff to
report back to Council with a reconciliation, validation and, sorry,
consolidation of all existing approved committed allocated, reserved and future
wastewater units associated with the Craig Leaf sewer shed and
Craig Leith Wastewater Treatment Plant Service area. And that the
report include a comparison of the unit counts equivalent unit
count allocations. Servicing assumption, this growth forecast and a full
build - out projections utilised in. One, The long point
road, environmental assessment to the water and wastewater capacity assessments.
Three, development charge studies. Four, health and safety water stream
HSWS funding applications five housing, enabling, water, systems, HEWS funding
applications. Six wastewater servicing studies. Seven growth management forecasts and
eight all related infrastructure planning documents. And that staff identify
and explain any discrepancies between these documents and provide a
reconciled estimate of one existing service units to approved and
committed units, three registered, but unbuilt units for allocated or
reserved capacity. Five, future growth units. And six total full
build - out units. Together with the anticipated realization timeline
for those units in five - year increments, zero to
five, five to 10 years, 10 to 15 years, 15
to 20 years. And beyond 20 years, including the assumptions
supporting each forecast. And that Staff specifically identify and quantify
any overlap duplication or double counting of housing units, equivalent
units, servicing allocations, growth forecasts or capacity assumptions across grant
applications. Development charge studies. Servicing strategies, environmental assessments, infrastructure studies,
and wastewater planning documents. And that Council Direct the Value
Engineering and third - party review assignment to utilise the
validated growth forecast servicing assumptions and build - out projections
as the basis for evaluating build now versus build as
growth accures scenarios. And further that no recommendation regarding ultimate
infrastructure sizing, construction phasing, or long - term borrowing, B
- brought forward to council until the growth forecast full
- builded assumptions, implementation, timelines, and servicing allocations have been
reconciled and validated, and that Staff provide a comprehensive financial
analysis of the borrowing requirements associated with the Craig Leith
Wastewater Treatment Plant upgrades project. Including the validated growth forecast
and face implementation options. And then the analysis include one
total anticipated debt principle under each scenario to annual debt
servicing payments three, total financing and interest costs over the
life of the debt for impacts wastewater reserve funds five
development charge funding assumptions and anticipated collection timing. Six. Sensitivity
analysis for low growth, medium growth, and full build -
out scenarios, and seven, The Impact on Wastewater rates and
the equivalent impact of the municipal tax levy expressed in
both annual percentage terms and dollar values, and that the
report compare the financial implications of one, a full build
- out scenario to a phased growth triggered scenario, three,
a minimum infrastructure required today scenario, and for a build
- out as growth scenario occurred, sorry, for a build
- out, or build - as - growth occur scenario.
And that the report clearly identified the financial exposure to
existing taxpayers and wastewater rate pairs should projected growth, development
charge revenues, or other growth - related revenues fall to
materialize within the timelines assumed. And further that the Council
require any future recommendation regarding Project Scope sizing, phasing, or
borrowing to include a clear statement of the estimated annual
debt payment total financing cost and corresponding impact on wastewater
rates and the municipal tax levy. I'll suck at the
motion. That has been seconded by Councillor Hope. Any further
discussion on this motion? CEO Smith, go ahead. Through the
chair, I don't necessarily have concerns with anything the section
pertain to the financial analysis piece, which I think will
be important for those future budgetary decisions. But I do
struggle a little bit as it relates to the gross
scenarios and the analysis tied to the various studies in
terms of reconciling different amounts, because they think through what
we rely on the comprehensive servicing analysis. Or, Dynajya Kershaw
has privileged you provided, as well as the fact that
when we look at elements such as even long point
EA, that EA was done 20 years ago. So those
numbers won't be reflective of the current realities. And I
think that's the key piece is, that's my concern in
terms of that Folsom information is that, of course, there
will be caveats. So we'll be differences in the numbers
we have, because all these studies are done at certain
periods of time, and our forecasts are always revised based
on developments that are ultimately allocated. Ultimately, we do have
emerge, such as even in lands that maybe within a
future secondary plan area. So I really struggle as it
relates to how much definitive information we could provide beyond
what's already portrayed through these servicing analysis report. Um, which
is our most point in time analysis of where things
are currently stand, even with the grant submissions themselves. Once
again, they're point in time projections as it relates to
where things stand. But I just struggle bringing that, you
know, level of detail and degree of information and about
whether that's really doable versus the, um, I think the
other components on the financial analysis. And I'm going to
go to Councillor Porter to clarify her motion. Yes, so
just want to clarify in the sense of if the
long point, as you say, road environmental assessment, all you,
all I would expect as a result of this motion
is, um, due to the age of it report is
no longer relevant done. I'm not looking for you to
explain things that aren't relevant. I do think the two
funding applications are relevant, particularly one was only done a
year ago. And the other one, I would say to
some extent, got us in the mess we are. So
they are relevant as to what was used. Um, if
the study is relevant, it's fine. If it's too old,
it's not relevant. An explanation one or two sentences is
fine. The problem I had is that there are different
numbers. There's different numbers. And we have to have one
set of numbers that we use. And, um, that was
my big thing. Is around the watershed numbers. And I
had looked at the Excel spreadsheet that Ms. Kershaw reported
to in that perhaps can be just put in there.
I'm plunked in. This is what they are. But I
think it's fair to say, you don't want to look
it application forms for grants. And look at Staff Reports
and the numbers are different. People know it should be
what a number is. And the numbers don't change that
drastically. That you're getting up to a future bill of
23, 000 and something. Like, and it's trying to figure
out what are we funding to. And if you, um,
the refurbishment of existing is seen as, um, that to
me shouldn't get bundled because this is really a seven
project bundle when we weren't going to bundle things anymore
is what is actually the reconstruction and what is new
construction? What is the cost. Because people have an easier
time knowing that they need to have this to continue
the service they have, but they're less likely to want
to pay debt for services that are coming who know
when. You know, I think there is some, you know,
if you want any more clarification, it's fine. But, um,
some things, if they're not relevant, they're not relevant. And
ticket often, it goes. Okay. Thank you Council Reporter. Manager
Kershaw. Some of the numbers change, uh, for things like
campus of care. It was very high density on a
small piece of property that we were incorporating at some
point in time. And then we were not incorporating. Additionally,
we see a huge development just in their secondary plan
that has gone from 1200 units. And I believe it's
come down a bit. When we look at, when I
write the capacity report, when if there's certain new developments
that are thrown in, uh, I believe in 2023, I
included sites B E and F at the village. That's
a huge amount of capacity change. And it changes from
year to year. If you look at year over year
of the, of the capacity report and you look at
the allocations and the total amount of usage, it does
go up and down. It does slide depending on the
density of, of what builders actually build. And, uh, some
of the special projects that come down, such as campus
of care. And when we looked at the, the long
point road sewer shed, we were also incorporating units from
beyond our municipal boundaries within the town of Collingwood. And
Clearview Township. Which we should be, we should be trying
to reduce the cost on the individual users on the
system. So our numbers are not always, we're not comparing
apples and oranges and all these different studies. That's part
of the problem is that when we look at a
funding application, we're looking at how many users we're servicing
within our municipality when we're looking at an EA and
we're going to service beyond our municipal boundary. We incorporate
those, those numbers as well. And they, they, the long
point road did delineate the number of users per piece
of property that could be serviced by the treatment plant,
the lift station at the plant. Okay. Thank you, manager
Kershaw. Um, going to go to Madam Mayor. Go ahead.
Thank you. Three of the chair to CAO Smith. Um,
thank you. You've already delineated some of the differences in
the ask in terms of the financial side. Um, we
are in the operations portion of Committee the whole. We
don't have the benefit of, of the financial team being
able to respond. My question through the chair is this
list of ask how doable is it in the Staff
workload that they currently have in Operations, but also with
finance. I'll have to look to you as a CAO
to think in terms of who would need to be
involved in this. And knowing that every time we ask
for a new report, we are prioritizing it and bumping
something else down the road. So my question would be
within that context, um, what is going to have to
wait if this work, this, this package of work is
completed ahead of other scheduled work. C. S. Smith. Yes.
And through the chair, yeah, certainly wouldn't be a report,
at least as a reads right now that I would
be able to bring back next cycle. This would be
something that, uh, I think to the point around in
terms of even from a, uh, financial analysis standpoint, I'm
really leaning on actually looking into the 2027 budget. I
think to that most of my orderlier point, I think
there's some, you know, the request made is say preclude
that came after the more so the analysis on the
unit counts would be a hundred percent a consideration when
it goes into the 2027 budget process pertain to anything
further advancing the long point road work. So I think
we have the benefit of time right now as it
relates to the existing budget that's been approved. The existing
value engineering exercise that we still need to, uh, to
complete on this, uh, on this project. And that'd be
my hope is I'd be more so something that we
would have to go into a new term at Council
into 2027 in conjunction with any further ask that may
be required as a relates to budgets. So I would
not be able to bring anything back probably likely within
this with term pertaining to it. Um, it would have
to be something that we factor in as part of
our 27 budget deliberations. Follow up, Madam Mayor. Yes. Thank
you. Through the chair, if I may have a follow
up then directed to manager Kershaw in terms of the
operations portion of this ask, um, again, the same question,
how much staff time would be involved in producing the
answers to this given the acknowledgement from staff that so
many of the pieces of the puzzle do move and
some of the, it's not an easy. I think it
was Apple's. You said it was an apples to apples
that the comparison and what projects on our, on our
operation staff are now going to have to be put
on hold while this information gets bumped up the queue.
Major Kershaw. Go ahead. First off the cue would be
I'd have to delay the third party, the valued engineering
assignment or the third party review. And one of the,
I just want to note in here, uh, we were
planning on doing a third party review or a valued
engineering assignment, not both. I see you had and, uh,
so it would be one or the other. So that
would definitely be bumped. It's a heavy workload to produce
this. Uh, and it's also planning Staff. I'll be spending
a lot of time with planning staff. This is going
to, to land on my shoulders. So I've got a
few capital projects that are on the goal right now
that, uh, we'll end up being delayed. And. It's not
doable in the, in the next couple council cycles. To
be honest. Okay. Thank you, Chair. Okay. Thank you, Madam
Mayor. Uh, Mr. Deputy Mayor, go ahead. Uh, thank you.
Just listen to the conversation. I think we're all, we
all want the same thing. We want a financial roadmap
that's going to give us good operational infrastructures. We move
forward. That being said, to me, this, the motion is,
this is some good elements here that we need the
information on. But I think we're being far too prescriptive.
And I haven't even had a chance to review it.
It's hard to just looking at it on screen. We
haven't had the benefit of reviewing it ahead of time
or the Public reviewing it for that matter as well.
So there's just too much in here for me to
be able to support the full motion. We, if we
could split dissections, but then we'd be here for another
two hours. So it's, it's not a matter of putting
extra work on staff because if it does, it takes
the time. But this is something that's going to be
looked at through the 2027 capital project anyways. Um, so
having those, uh, true numbers on allocation, having the true
numbers on asset management, uh, and the reserves, like even
looking at the five year increments of five, five years,
five to 10 years. That's usually community stretch out a
little bit further than that beyond 25 years. They look
to a 50 year Bilbo at the, at their end
result. So I agree. We shouldn't have, you know, we
shouldn't have any overlap duplication. It should be true numbers
that we need to work with. But doing this report,
pushing off the value engineering, um, or third party review
of projects that are already approved in the queue for
capital concerns me. Um, so I'd like to know, I
guess from the mover. There's too much information here for
Staff to be able to take it back digested, even
for the Public and even for council right now to
be able to give a true vote on this, from
my opinion at this point. So I guess to the,
through the chair to the mover is looking at this
as a totality, was this something that you were looking
at through the capital project and was it anticipated that
the third party value engineering would be delayed. Council Porter.
Through the chair, uh, to the Deputy Mayor, no, I
wasn't anticipating it would be delayed. You can do whatever
you want. I would personally think the value engineering would
be, would be better. I purposely did not put a
date for it to be returned because I respect that.
It's just that I think when we do something like
this, we have to work with a set of solid
numbers. Solid numbers for what are we paying for that's
required today. Within a year. And what are you wanting
us to pay for that you're not looking that there
isn't going to be, um, users for 20 years. It
needs to be separated out. It needs to be separated
out, as you say, what is, um, refurbishment versus new.
And we don't know that right now. So, um, we,
and we also, it just says there's no way is
transparent to the public how that's going to hit their
pocketbook. And that's not fair. I mean, I shouldn't have
to figure it out using a spreadsheet. And think about
how that, and it's put there. And it should come
towards the budget because if that's what it's going to
cost is going to be trade - offs because you
can't have everything because you're going to be hitting 25,
30 percent tax increase. So it wasn't meant to delay
the value engineering. As I see the value in that
at this time as opposed to retrospectively. So, but we,
and I'm happy, I think we need to know these
things going in. The new council, whoever sits here, needs
to know these things going into the budget. Because I
think we sort of, in some ways I see it's
from blind faith that it will be okay. Well, that
went out the window last year on December 15th. So
this is one way we have a set of numbers.
If the numbers change, then that's a variance to the
project. So that's what I'm looking at. And I purposely
didn't put a date because the budget won't come to
the new year. So it gives you lots of time.
Pollo up, uh, Mr. Deputy Mayor. Uh, no, and I,
and I, and I get that. And I, this is
something that we'll be looked at through the 2027 capital
budget. And we're using actual numbers. You need to, otherwise
we can't do a true financial road wrapper who has
ever, um, planning for the next four, eight, 12 years
out. It's just there's, I think there's too much in
this motion to be able to even, um, for Staff
to tackle it. There's, there's a lot of great key
points and numbers that we need to get. But I
think the verbal doesn't need to be there or is
confusing or contradictory. Or even at the, even looking at,
um, financial long - term debt facilities is that on
today's number, is that an assumption it won't be built
for two years. And so we're adding 10 percent of
your compounding per year. Once we get to 60 percent
engineering with the scope of the project changed. So I
don't, I want to make sure we have the right
numbers in there. Of course, for the, um, allocation of
houses, the allocations of water, um, looking at like some
great key points. And here's where we go further down
into the motion. There's just, I think too many things
that may conflict with each other. If you pull down
a little bit further, um. Even, uh, The Bill now
versus Bilder's growth, as Allison said, you know, it's not,
it's not an off the shelf plug and play situation
when we're looking at trunk lines. You need to have
that in place. Um, and then this, this section I
think is going to be, um, is going to be
greatly affected by timing. So we're, we're now seeing at
August about the time you do the capital budget. Then
you look at by the time this is actually built,
I think the numbers won't be accurate. And then that,
we're going to get ourselves into a scenario where we
need to have the full at least 60 percent class
engineering we're at as well as, uh, what scope and
range. And then prioritization of those seven capital, uh, the
scopes with, sorry, the seven scope priorities within that capital
project. So I think the few things that we, they
won't be able to do. And I don't want to,
this to come back, especially to a new council. And
with confusion, I think a well - rounded capital budget
plan coming forward. I think Staffs heard everything we need
to see or whatever council needs to see. So I
think that is just a little bit too much in
here. On a carryover basis going to this capital budget.
It's just, just, just my opinion. Okay. Thank you, Mr.
Deputy Mayor. I'm going to go to Councillor Maxwell. Thank
you, Chair. Anyway, I'm going to give you the reasons
why I support this. And I wish you actually had
more in. But anyway, okay. So the reason I'm supporting
this is I think we, a lot of us were
at the, you know, all candidates meeting. And the Public
and the taxpayers are asking, you know, for greater oversight
on the delivery of projects. And they want to stress
test on these things. They want us to put them
under the maker scope and they do not want another
boondoggle like the ice time. And so anyway, this is
why I'm supporting this because this is putting everybody's feet
to the fire. So that we can get. You know,
a project delivered. That meet maximum stress test. That's really
what it's about. This reminds me of the financial breakdown
we had in 2008 when the feds brought in, this
stress test on the banks. You know, you got to
do these things. So anyway, I'm just going to leave
it at that. But that's, I'm supporting this motion. Thank
you. Thank you Councillor. Uh, Councillor Hope. Thank you, Chair
McKinley. And thank you again to Councillor Porter for this
motion. Um, and I'm certainly going to support it. I
was the seconder as well. I'm wondering if, uh, it
would be useful that since we're not far from lunchtime,
that this motion be printed out. So that everyone can
see it. Um, I listen very carefully because I was
thinking there was a lot of boxes being ticked off
for me. So, uh, as I heard the motion, I
could roll along with it. So I think that for
those, I don't think it's confusing when you have a
chance to, to look at it, uh, and I don't
think it, so the fact that it's long doesn't change
the fact that it's meaningful and important. And I agree
absolutely with Councillor Maxwell. We're all rightly so. You know,
the Public wants due diligence oversight. And numbers that are
real. So I see that what Councillor Porters put together
is going to provide us with this with just that.
So that's why I am on the motion and I
hope that this has passed because I think it's a
really important initiative to get things straightened out. Um, what
I'm also, um, keenly aware of is the complexity of
this project. Given the background of Bay Street and the
fact that the KPMG review talked about the complexity of
a three scope program, let alone a seven scope program.
If I, if I've got the analogies right, and the
fact that based on what KPMG has said, we really
do need to up our game in a huge way
on our, our ability to deliver capital projects. So we
don't have a directive operations, which I know the CAO
is carefully pursuing. How are we going to handle capital
projects as even up in the air? There's, there's so
much, uh, to consider, uh, in terms of the other
side, on the implementation side. And we've been given, uh,
through KPMG, we've been given a very close, um, review
of what council needs to ask for and what staff
needs to be pursuing in terms of stage gates and
all the elements that they need to, uh, to be
looking at. So in terms of looking at this project
from a timing perspective, I would argue we're in basic
team building process. And that takes time. As well. Um,
so, and we, and as council and certainly under the
gun from the Public, we need to follow that KPMG
report. And whatever amount of time that takes, all the
recommendations that have come from that report as well. So
this motion, one part of the complexity, we've got, uh,
number of elements to unravel, but I think that this
is the next place to start by ensuring we have
the right numbers. Thank you. Okay. Thank you. Manager Kershaw.
You indicated you'd like to respond. I did through you,
Mr. Chair. So when we look at the breakdown between
asset replacement and DC reserves, that'll come through the budget
process. We do a fairly thorough investigation when we're looking
at replacing assets, whether they're supporting growth or whether we're
just replacing the asset. So that section as to what
portion is asset replacement or our existing users are paying
for what is for new users will be done, that
that exercise is done through the budget process. That's all
I wanted to add. Thank you. Okay. Thank you. C.
A. Smith. Through the chair, just to be clear as
it relates to, you know, as it relates to kind
of a strong project management framework and methodology underpinning this
project, I think my concern, and as I noted earlier,
it doesn't really necessarily go into the analysis side on
the financial piece, which a hundred percent agree as when
we look at coming to budget and how this project's
going to unfold. We're going to want to capture all
that for, for council. And I think as I know,
I think that is, that is good information. It's more
so around the body of work going into all these
previous studies to which I can definitively say right now,
I don't believe the outcome is going to result and
to say, Oh wow, you know, based on these assumptions
that we are now looking at the fact that we
don't need to look at the lift station or we
don't need to do that gravity sewer. That's my concern
with the body of it is to say it's not
going to definitively change what this scope is, is looking
like we have to rely on the current assessments that
we have. And if the difference, even of say zero
to a hundred units around those forecasts that once again
will not be in the grand scheme of things, a
major change as a relation to the overall overall design.
So that's really what I just want to reinforce on
what's, you know, practical or what could be done within.
I think that's relevant for the purpose of moving this
project forward in a, in a way that's reflective of,
I think, our fiscal capacity, which I think the, the,
the blow sections of the resolution do address. It's just
more so, I think the, the deep dive around the
various studies, which managed your Kershaw's point. It's going to
require other staff, particularly in the planning side. And I'm
just wary of what that outcome will ultimately be. Okay.
Thank you, CEO Smith. Councillor Ardell. You have not spoken
yet. So you have the floor. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
And no. And, uh, and this is very complex. And
I know when we started our term, there was some
complex. Concepts that happened in the term before us. And
then we were having to face them ourselves. And then
we got criticized for them. And it wasn't our doing.
So depending on who's going to be sitting at this
table next could be nobody or it could be some.
And I wouldn't want to have the same scenario roll
out for them as well. So I think having this,
this motion here, it is very complex. I would like
to break for lunch soon and maybe have it read
over it at lunchtime and then bring it back. So
we get a thorough understanding of what it does do.
But I, I wouldn't want to approve something that all
of a sudden then we get blamed for it. Because,
Oh, that was the old council or we didn't do
our due diligence. And I want to make sure we
are doing our due diligence because we are all taxpayers
or we wouldn't be sitting at this table. So we
want to make sure that we're going about it at
the right way and timeframes. And when I read The
Whole Thing, I quickly went down and reread it again.
But there was no timeframe on it. So that's why,
um, I think then we can give this some real
good, um, thought. And, you know, really go over it
with a fine - toothed comb. And then I know
of that delays the third party or the value engineering.
So it be. We brought in value engineering at the
end of another project. So let's just get this right
for the taxpayers in the town. And, uh, yeah, I,
I will be supporting this as well. It's just that
we need to make sure we're doing everything that we
can for the taxpayers. Thank you, Councillor Del. Uh, CAO
Smith. Through the chair, just being cognizant at the time.
And we still have quite a heavy agenda on the
PDS side of things too. It's a suggestion around potentially
amending it to allow for at the Council meeting, give
it a, you know, a bit of time and perhaps
be it for, for the mover as well as with
respect to amending it simply to allow for, for that
motion, be brought forward at council versus having to further
deliberate on this. Just ensure that we can keep on
moving as a release. All the various items that we
do need to address today. And that is next week.
Sorry. The, the following week. Yeah. Two weeks. Sorry. Two
weeks. Yes. Councillor Porter. I'm quite happy to bring the
motion forward at Council as long as I, I'm able
to do that. I, they say I get first refusals.
So it will still be my motion. But I'm happy
taking away and rework it. I'm happy to put it
out so you can put it on the agenda. Okay.
Thank you for that council reporter. I have no problem
with that myself. Matt, I'm Deputy Clerk. Procedurally. How do
we proceed procedurally? How do we proceed with deferring emotion
this motion to, Pardon. Thank you, Mr. Chair. So according
to the procedural bylaw, motion or mending motion maybe withdrawn
by the mover. Um, by the mover, sorry, with the
consent of the seconder at any time before the amendment
tour decision. Okay. Okay. Mr. Chair, sorry, Madam Deputy Clerk.
Can we not just defer B - 4 - 4
Craigli Water Treatment Plan upgrades represent design update OPS 26035.
To be heard at the September 8th Council meeting? Nothing
goes away. They don't pull back the motion. We're just
deferring the whole topic. I think that, is that, uh,
procedurally accurate. Um, I think it would work especially if
Council Pat U unanimously passed a motion to that effect.
Okay. So hearing that is the mover, does a mover
approve the deferral of this to for your motion to
carry over. Yes. And I can work with it. And
I'll bring forwards any, um, modifications to simplify. Thank you.
Okay. Thank you. And the seconder, I'm sorry, I can't
remember who the secondary is now. Oh, secondary is Councillor
Hope. Would you queue your mic and pontificate your acceptance
of that. I'll share my acceptance that's for sure. Thanks.
Okay. Thank you. So that being said, the motion will
just be that we, uh, item B 4. 4. Sorry,
Mr. Jarfeen, eh? I just have had some feedback from
the clerk. Um, so she would suggest a motion come
forward today for council for consideration at council. Otherwise it
could be rewarded. That's right. So confirmation from the clerk?
Yes. We have confirmation from Adam Clerk. So we have
item B 4. 4, Craigli Wastewater treatment plant upgrades 30
percent design update OPS dot three 035. That Council, the
Town Blue Mountains agrees to defer Agenda item B 4.
4 until the September 8th, 2026 Council meeting. Do I
have a mover. I'll move that. Move by Councillor Adele.
Second by Councillor Porter. You further discussion on that. Seeing
none. Adam Deputy Clerk, please call that vote. Thank you.
That vote is open. Affirmative for me. Thank you, Councillor
Maxwell. And that vote is closed. And that vote is
carried with all seven present voting in the affirmative. Now
it is seven after one. I'm going to call a
lunch break until one 45. Is that enough time for
staff. And everyone involved? Okay. Then we'll be on break
until 145. Thank you. Turn your microphones off and your
cameras.
It is 146. Councillor Maxwell if you take your seat
we'll be able to continue. We have a Corum.
All right. Madam Deputy Clerk we have a quorum of
council I will have you confirm that we have a
quorum of Council and we will move forward Thank you
Mr. Chair I confirm that we have a quorum of
Council Thank you Madam Deputy Clerk So we will move
on to item B 4. 5 which is extended work
hours TWA WATP Outfall OPS dot 26. 047 Manager Kershaw.
You have the floor. You Mr. Chair this report is
coming to Council for their information So our contractor who's
installing the outfall at the extension of grey road Grey
Street in Thornberry. Has asked for extended work hours The
extended work hours The municipal act permits bylaws to be
enforced within our municipal boundaries if the contractor is working
beyond our municipal boundary i. e. out in the water
Our municipal bylaws do not apply therefore our noise bylaw
does not apply Beyond the shoreline so the contractor will
be working Extended hours so that'll be from seven to
nine at night every night from Monday to Friday and
full day on Saturday and the half day on Sunday
as previously agreed. So this information this report is for
Council Information Please let me know if you have any
questions Thank you manager Khrushaw C. O. Smith did you
want to add anything before I Throw it open to
members of committee. No through the chair I decided to
this report I think it just emphasizes the criticality of
meeting that fisheries window and to ensure that At least
to the extent possible that we were able to avoid
having to extend this into another construction year where I
think all eager to have this project concluded and And
to have the site fully remediated into and to move
forward Thank you Okay Thank you Mr. CAO. Do we
have any questions for members of committee I don't see
any hands yet. Oh Councillor Porter go ahead. Yes, thank
you through the chair So just respect to The project.
And The outfall and the concerns around this. I just
want to guess no Is this the last ask. I
mean I think I think Bay Street residents have had
a lot. They have the road and there was the
out of hours working There's been concessions made on that
and yes I also understand The water is outside of
our municipal territory But as the construction is and our
The road construction is moving towards the intersection It's three
houses down Uh, from grey street now that compound thing
So I'm just wondering is there anything else that's going
to come out that they're going to be asked to
have to live with. That people can reasonably foresee. Yeah
through the chair I can serve Start and then manage
your Kershaw may be able to add on to it
And it's difficult to predict I mean the window that
we have right now to the to the September At
least September 25th date is the windows to which Uh
my hope is that Uh we would not need to
come back to Council on any further schedule changes or
anything of that nature But my commitment is more so
around that transparency and ensuring that both Council and Public
know if there are some other changes or any alterations
to schedule or means Uh related to the to the
project that we're fully communicating that and uh... Doing that
in a transparent fashion But perhaps manager Kershaw want to
add anything Uh... Further to those comments. Ministry you have
anything to add. Oh. You're. Yeah.
Microphone's not. On. There. We go. That one works. That
one. Through you Mr. Chair. No we will keep counsel
abreasted of what's going on with The construction on a
weekly basis However We don't anticipate any more ask So
I don't think there's in the day they could potentially
work We are having an information session of community information
session this Friday in the chambers from one till 230
And we'll be here to answer any questions The Public
may have But other than that I don't have a
crystal ball So I don't know what the future may
hold But I hope that they're no more ass. Okay.
Thank you. Manager Kershaw Follow - up Uh Council Reporter.
Not at this time. Okay Councillor Maxwell. Oh thanks I
just have a little question Go ahead Thank you Chair.
Do we have a duty to consult with First Nations
on this. Major Kershaw We have 3U Mr. Chair Through
the design The design of this We did thoroughly consult
with First Nations We sent out Notifications We shared within
the Marine Uhreen Archaeological Assessment The Land Archaeological Assessment Part
1 and Part 2 We reached out to about I'm
going to estimate about 15 First Nation Groups And that
some that we know are more active We did send
them registered letters And then additionally we did send out
some additional communication Um... Because we knew that they would
be interested in participating in some of the archaeological assessments
So we essentially we sent them a blank invoice and
said Tell us a cost for you to attend this
So First Nations were here They did witness The archaeological
assessments Uh stage 2 When we're doing the screening Um...
We have met our obligation Uh... Consult with First Nations.
Follow Up Council Maxwell No, that's fine Thank you Okay.
I don't see any other hands So we have a
recommended motion that Council receives Staff Report OPS 26. 047
entitled Extended Work Hours TWWTP Outfall for their information Do
I have a mover? I will move Move by the
mayor. Secondar Second by the Deputy Mayor. Seeing go further
hands Madam Deputy Clerk You may call that hope please
The vote is open.
Council Reporter Meiisist. Uh vote in the affirmative It hasn't
popped up yet Thank you that vote is close. And
that vote is carried with all seven members Present voting
in the affirmative. Thank you now We will move two
item B5 Public comment period regarding matters including The Operation
Portion of the meeting Each speaker is a lot of
three minutes These are Commons in response to what has
transpired so far I see one Please come up to
the microphone and state your name and address And you
have three minutes. Oh.
Momentarily.
You were red You're ready to go. Go ahead. My
name is Debbie Cross Gill and I'm from Clarksburg And
I want to speak to B - 42 The Drinking
Water. And B - 4 - 3 The Capacities Report
Um... With regard to the Drinking Water I want to
emphasize That this is a core service of this Municipality
It is essential that we have to have drinking water.
And that. In these days with climate change Et cetera
Water is not going to be unlimited. And even in
the report The Ms. Kershaw gave She was mentioning that
there could be a time. That The limit is happening
on that. Um. I also think it's very important when
you were discussing The PFAs And that Councillor Maxwell brought
up about The Microplastics Although it is not considered important
to do that at this time I would far rather
see money spent. On making sure that we were drinking
healthy water. That wasn't filled with microplastics or PFAs or
any other chemicals. Then spending it on some of the
other things I've seen Being asked of council to invest
money in. That's just My comment on that. Um I
think you missed an opportunity. In the capacity report with
regard to Ms. Kershaw mentioning about The irrigation. That is
a huge number. Of water that is being used for
something that is not a core service. Irrigation for lawns
is a want. I have had a lawn that this
year during this hot summer. I've never watered once. There's
no need for it. You could do a whole Environmental
Um... Component. Clover could be There are many drought resistant
plants that could be planted If people want a green
facade in front of their home Thank you. Thank you
Ms. Carlscope And you would be saving us money. Thank
you. From the other side of the room. To the
back. Yes Come up. No problem.
You're. Ready to go. You just have to state your
name and your address And uh... You have three minutes.
Alright My name's Aaron McLeod and I am from 200
Bay Street East. And I just wanted to comment on
the Grey Street Outfall pipe. So I have had a
front row seat to all the construction that's happening in
the water And there are definitely some concern I'm concerned
about these new hours that they've asked for. The first
time it was understandable because mistakes happened Projects fall behind
That's understandable. But the new hours They're very late in
the evening So 9 PM The Stark Wait What are
they going to do at that point? I have a
6 month old We are living with very loud construction
on both sides And he is not a fan We
are not a fan And it's not just during construction
hours Like the barge bangs against the waves during the
evenings and is very loud. I get that this needs
to happen We all want it done But at what
cost I mean I'm kind of going insane And my
baby's not liking it either. And also I think it's
a little concerning The amount of mistakes that they've made
Like I've watched them Like the silt barriers that failed
the first time The deep six contractors came to our
house and apologised And that was really nice But we
watched them build them out again And then this past
weekend fail again And now the styrofoam back on our
beach again So that is a concern. And I think
it's a little embarrassing for that company Because they are
a company that specializes in work across The country and
in oceans And they can't seem to understand Georgia M.
Bay waters. So I think there are a number of
problems And I just wonder if anyone's Uh, following up
with these issues And if there's anyone on site That
is monitoring The progress Because they are quite behind And
I want to know why that is. And because we
want it done. I mean And I don't want to
listen to it anymore. Um Yes that's what I have
to say. Thank you. Okay Thank you. Anyone else. In
the gallery. In response. Going once. Going twice. I will
close this portion and hand the chair back to The
mayor Thank you. Thank You Councillor McKinley So we are
now going to move on since we've just had our
lunch We're going to move on to planning and building
Uh which will be chaired by Councillor Hope and we
will continue to sit until we can clear off this
agenda We do not have the luxury of pushing items
to further Committee The holes at this point in the
end of term Because next The next committee The whole
section Uh the agenda is already full from things that
have been moved earlier So with that Let's get to
it and The chair is yours Councillor Hope. Yes, thank
you No pressure. Uh Welcome everyone to Planning and Building
Services Uh, we're going to start with B6 Deputations B.
6. 1 Rick Crouch Broker South Beast International Reen update
on the local housing market Um, Rick You have 10
minutes There'll be a ring at nine minutes And then
you'll know you have a minute left Plus the timer
you can see as well Thank you Good afternoon Honourable
Mayor and members of Kanzel Thanks for having me I'm
Rick Crouch I reside at 1. 11 Faircrest Lane and
Clerksburg And as the Council Remember mentions I am a
broker Wrestle Beach International Realty And I'm here on behalf
not only Sotheby's but of the one point association of
realtors Normally I don't use Notes But Stay I'm going
to make an exception Um Our members And first of
all a clarify We have 2700 members Uh... They are
not all local Our profession has gone through Um... Many
mergers So we cover The area from Guelph Owe to
here on Perth on the Lake Urin side Grey Bruce
Own Sound Including Bruce Peninsula Rhonda Bottom of the Bay
Here up through Midland Penetang all the way to Perry
Sound and then over into The Muscokas and part of
Halliburton Um... So our members in Aetymarket C housing every
day at the street level Uh... They work with young
families trying to enter the housing market the first time
Seniors may be looking to retire to this area Or
to perhaps downsize And we also work with local employers
that are concerned about The housing Uh... The available to
any workforce That they may have or are looking at
setting up in the area As well as we help
residents trying to continue to afford living in the community
And maybe it's also to expand to a larger house
or the elderly They're looking to downsize to something smaller
Um... Today I'd like to provide counsel Which is the
brief update on the local housing market Share some regional
Public opinion research that we had conducted And identified several
opportunities where we believe we can build on what The
Township here has already done to approve Housing affordability Uh...
So if I want to begin by just giving you
a brief look at The local housing market To give
you a better sense of where would the current market
is And we really have to go back to Uh...
Three or four years back to when Ontario went through
significant change Not only locally here and no alian Ontario
But across Canada And it basically started with the COVID
- 19 pandemic Uh... You know that triggered the whole
concept of working from home We saw mass influx of
people that were able to leave the GT area Move
up here Maybe it was to a home They already
owned as a secondary property or a weekend condo Uh...
And it also historically Uh had very low interest rates
at the time Which allowed them to make a move
Uh... In 19... In 2019 The median sale price for
a single - family home in the town of Blue
Mountains with 792, 000 By 2022 that number had reached
over 1. 5 million So that's almost a doubling in
a three - year time frame Now we compare that
to the area in general And I cover from Midland
Sorry Meford overthrew Grey Highlands Townlewoo Mountains Collingwood Clear View
And with Sega Beach Uh... The median sale price today
is 686, 000 So the 1. 3 million here in
the Town of the Mountains is significantly higher Uh... Since
then The market has clearly softened It's weaker Uh... Sales
from compared to a couple years ago We're down about
35 percent And some of the area Hardished hit is
in the higher end homes Um... At the same time
while sales are down The inventory of property is listed
for sale as about a 10 - year high. Just
to compare in the town of Blue Mountains Sales last
year were 187 homes Single family homes Na condos included
Uh... Compared to 443 and 2020 367 - 2021 And
basically on the sales that we've seen this year To
the end of July We're sitting at 86 units I
forecast We may end up somewhere 1 150 By the
end of the year So they the local market data
shows are considerably higher listing inventory And during the pandemic
Then what we had during the pandemic era And it
certainly signalling a return to a more ballast market There's
buyers out there Uh... They have a lot more to
look at They're constrained more by higher mortgage rates And
that in turn has also impacted pricing During the pandemic
sale prices were often triggered by multiple offers You know
10 or 15 people combating for the same house The
ultimate sale price was off 103 to maybe 105 percent
above their asking price Where back down now to the
95 to 97 percent range which pretty much signals a
ballast market So as of as of now There are
257 active listings Single family homes Intown of Blue Mountains
160 of those are over 1 million dollars That's 62
percent of what's on the market is over a million
dollars And then from a million 5 to 2 million
2 million to 3 3 millimeter over You know those
those make up the balance So you've got in the
case of 27 listings over 3 million That's 11 percent
of the market By comparison overall Uh right now in
those six municipalities I mentioned there's about 66 listings over
3 million dollars Last year total sales were 15. So
we're talking four years of inventory basically. Uh So this
trend has continued as I mentioned into 2026 with more
supply on The resale market The numbers I'm quoting do
not include sales that builders do direct This is simply
mls data Uh, but the key is that a more
balanced market has not meant that we've returned to Uh,
market affordability for most people So for many local workers
young families First time buyers a 1. 3 million dollar
house is completely beyond the realm of them buying Even
if they're willing to pay it They're not going to
get bank right dancing for an overpriced house So affordability
remains a real central concern facing local residents when it
comes to housing And then O council here is focused
on finding solutions to that Uh challenge At one point
we provide ourselves on supporting our elected officials and civil
servants with expert advice guidance and data that I've just
shared on Helping you address You know the local housing
market and to help make and to also help consumers
make You know sound You know policy and decision making
as whether they're selling or buying. Earlier this year and
I think you've received a copy of this We actually
engage and partnered with nanos research one of Canada's largest
research in polling firms Together information from residents across the
one - point region now in in full disclosure Their
documentation and the research they did was own sound Collingwood
and concardin can curtain some within a different market But
certainly you know anything that Collingwood shared from their perspective
Really kind of dovetails with what we would expect to
find in Town of Blue Mountains I mean let's face
it where sistering municipalities So while the research did not
include dedicated Public Opinion specifically from Town of Blue Mountains
Nanos Research did serve a their survey did provide useful
context of attitudes towards the housing market in the immediate
area. So amongst the almost 800 people they surveyed Uh...
Housing and housing cost was 11 percent dealt with health
care So results really demonstrate kind of the common tensions
or opinion shared amongst the various communities across Southern Georgian
Bay So if we look at Collywood for example 10
9 of 10 Collingwood residents rated their community positively as
a great place to live I think we would find
the same thing here in that Town of the Mountains
Great place to live great police to raise a family
But only 12 percent of people in Collywood positively viewed
Uh... The purchase of a home of being realistic founded
being poor I think the same thing we would see
the same results that we zeroed in just on Town
of Blue Mountains But overall 84 percent are concerned about
whether their kids The next generation or if their retirees
an area whether they're their grandchildren would be able to
forward a house And not necessarily in this area But
elsewhere in Canada So housing affordability homelessness and infrastructure also
emerged as leading Uh, municipal priorities So are these results
should not be intended as polling of the Town of
the Mountains residents They certainly provide some good regional contents.
So similar to Public Opinion Research 1 point also worked
in conjunction with looking at other solutions from other municipalities
We did put forth a booklet at one point released
on basic homes Strengthening communications Communities rather a review of
administrable housing policy best practices across the one - point
region This point reviewed about 10 minutes of Powell Dee's
across the area Again Town of Blue Mountains was not
one of them But it was based against the Canada
mortgage and housing Corporations housing Accelerator fund best practices And
we found in there You know a lot of what
other municipalities had done Troy and at force and work
on housing affordability So certainly the town has established and
affordable housing at target here Developed a housing action plan
Expanded permission for additional housing units created The housing within
reach community involvement and is Advancing forward relative to admissible
lands that may be available Planning modernization and streamlined approvals
Mr. Crocher you almost done. Yep Okay thank you So
I just like to like to just sum up by
saying that. You know the challenge now is really about
The delivery And that's it's you know The policies are
there Some of the planning is there But without executing
that It's nothing more than a wish list You know
And so that's one of the key things that we
felt was worth forth Bringing forth at this point in
time Especially with emerging Municipal election coming upon us Um,
thanks very much for having me And I'm certainly open
to answer any questions you may have. Thank you Mr.
Coach I see that we have one hand up Um
Councillor Maxwell move The floor. Thank you sir for the
deputation Much appreciated Um I got a question. Um because
you're really close to the market obviously. Are you seeing
buyers trying to offset their purchase cost by You know
using a bed and breakfast model or STAs. And are
some of them willing You know to create a maybe
a granny flat or a basement apartment. Because I mean
if the cost is high and then you may want
to try to offset things So I got a follow
- up after Yeah Certainly the question of STAs comes
up particularly in the condo market Um, one of the
issues there And I've had some involvement there because I've
sold condos or even some single family homes in the
past that some people bought as investments And I either
tried to do short - term accommodations through like VRBO
or Airbnb Uh that creates an issue with revenue Canada.
Particularly with the condominium market So revenue CAD is basically
taking the position that any property that is available to
rent Never mind if it is If it's available to
rent on a shirt as a short - term accommodation
more than 50 percent of the time The sale of
that property will be HST taxable. That has a big
number You know Ice fold economy on behalf of a
client who had bought it in 2003 Um, he used
it himself personally rented it out a bit When we
sold it back in I guess it was around 2021
It sold for over 800, 000 That property was HST
taxable. He ate the HST He had benefit from the
rental income Um... But you know ADing HST onto anything.
Adds a big price And so the tendency more is
now people think looking at a basement Department or maybe
building a unit in their backyard I had a contractor
that did a kitchen renovation for us last year One
of his working on a project for a client They
had like a small kind of a large shed in
the backyard They turned into a one bedroom apartment Which
you know many municipalities are welcome The opportunity and allowing
that to be done That was one way to address
and create a good Affordable unit for somebody So we
always encourage people if there's any kind of rental activity
And I see listings all the time on You know
where it's a house in the Tanabago Mountains Or it's
a condominium And the agent is saying Oh it's easily
rentable No it's not You have to be licensed And
you may not get a license depending on how many
other properties are around you So the real estate community
has to be very cognizant about what the rules are
and advise people Accordingly and above and be all We
always advise them talk to your lawyer Talk to your
account. Because you need to get especially The taxation issues
cleared Especially when the raven UCA has taken such an
aggressive posture. Even Even buying something and putting in a
company name Even if it's resale real estate A company
name will trigger it It's HST applicable. And I'll buyer
doesn't want to pay HST You know But somebody has
to. Thank you follow - up One follow - up.
Go ahead Yeah thank you Um... Thank you Chair. So
you know over the I don't know since maybe the
80s. Um house became an investment other than a place
to live. It became a second income in a lot
of cases. Are we starting to see that unravel now.
I could probably relate that I moved here in 1985
I was transferred up here by Goodyear Canada to work
out of the Colley With Hose plant I lived in
a new house that my wife and I at the
time Owen for one year in Aurora We moved up
here. There was no appreciable difference in housing price I
mean We spend every dollar We took out of Aurora
host to move up here And I was to buy
a modest little host on Mountain Road And uh... We
then moved to a larger home We lived in that
for five years Uh Here's a good example of how
The market can shift I had bought the house for
165, 000 It was a new house Young couple had
built it They got in over their heads I bought
the house for 165, 000 Living it for five years
finished it built a deck Landscaped It at that point
in time I was running a manufacturing business down in
Barry But lived in Collywood Got transfer the US 1992
Similar now Inter streets were higher The economy was uncertain
I sold that house for 160, 000. 5, 000 less
than what I paid The market value at the time
was about 300, 000 I was moving back and forth
between here and Chicago Weekly living in a company provided
apartment And, uh, finally The President Company Sir Rick just
blow the house off and we'll make up the difference
So in reality I got a little over 200, 000
for it But I lived in a house for five
years put money into it Including sweat equity and solid
of the 5, 000 dollar loss During the COVID period
We never in a two - year period sought any
price reductions go through our MLS system Right things were
selling for over - the - asking price Now it
is not uncommon to see 30 to 40 price reductions
a week. And they're not 5, 000 dollar reductions They're
102 and 300, 000 dollars I'm aware of one property
that's actually closing today It's sold for 1 million dollars
less than they're asking price A million dollars. Well below
the replacement cost. But that's what the willing buyers prepare
to pay So that's the kind of market that we're
in right now And you know It's fitting through The
presentation earlier You know when you're dealing with water and
wastewater. Don't be planning on any rap and growth. In
the next I think 3 - 5 years I mean
look at the economy right now Look at the... What's
going on between CAD and the US on the economy
We're not going to see a turnaround And the fact
is we got to app where we probably never should
have Where praises went from 790, 000 Town of Wild
Mountains to a million 5 And now it's down to
a million 3 Who's to say the 750 or 800
is a more realistic price. And that's where we actually
are seeing an increase in sales right now is kind
of in that 5 to 800, 000 price range Yeah
we're seeing a little bit of increase between 1, 5
and 2. But we're talking two or three houses, not
two or 300, you know But it was interesting having
gone through that period of time where you saw no
price reductions It was a seller's market There was competing
buyers Limited inventory. And historically low interest rates. And I
was cautioned people Look if you don't have to buy
Don't. Because you're going to get a better deal And
two or three years And you know Banks are extremely
cautious right now They don't want to own a house
That's that They're that they're underwater on because the seller
over the seller overbought So We're still having an issue
with sellers There's a lot of sellers that Well I
need this It doesn't matter what you need This is
where your house is valued based on the eyes of
today's buyer As well as the lenders. Thank you Madam
Mayor. Thank you through the chair Um thank you very
much It was very interesting A very interesting read in
an anticipation And you've shared some more details verbally I
could appreciate that in some cases You weren't able to
do an actual isolated View of the Blue Mountains and
other times it's looking But what you describe is very
much that South Georgia May area And it's a very
comparable area So my question through the chair is Um...
You reference workforce housing And How much of an insight
or a lens And maybe it's part anecdotal talking to
potential clients who are in the workforce age range Or
how much of this data that you've been able to
Uh, dissect is related to the location of that workforce
housing So that it's close to the potential work Um...
Especially in a date age when we're all encouraging Active
Transportation For example Or if it's rental Um... Or even
First - time buyers who are really trying to cut
their monthly costs There may be only one vehicle between
two people that are working Or perhaps no vehicle So
do you have any further insight You can add to
what you've already presented with us in terms of location
of hosing And location of potential work. Yeah I think
certainly And I gave it a couple of examples My
younger brother retired from The Pulking The Glass Company back
last fall So he had been the quality assurance Department
for a number Years And uh... They hired a replacement
for him It was a lady that was moving up
from wealth Uh... They hired her She came up here
Looked at housing in the air She was I can't
afford to live here But she turned out in a
position Uh... Certainly I think with the cost of transportation
Even just from a fuel standpoint When I think Like
I committed for five years from callingwood to Barry I
wouldn't want to be doing it now I think I
know what it caused me in gas then I wouldn't
want to do it now Uh... I wouldn't want to...
I never had an issue getting to work at home
You know Even through the winter When some of my
colleagues in my office couldn't get home and bury You
know But I think certainly You know Public transportation is
an issue Certainly I think when we see an awful
lot of the people moving to the area If they
don't currently reside here They're an elderly couple They won't
They want to downsize They maybe want to cut one
vehicle Uh... One of them still may be working You
know I'm getting lots of rumbling these days But people
that say Oh I'd love to apply for a job
But the Costco and with Sega Beach It's too far
You know I don't have a car There's no Public
Trans Trans Transportation You know to get me there So
that's a big factor When I think of When I
lived on Mountain Road and drove to Goodyear There wasn't
so much as a traffic light Never mind to stop
So I know So it was a pretty easy commute
You know it's not And I did I did participate
in an economic roundtable in Collingwood back a couple of
months ago And they were reaching out trying to figure
out You know what kind of businesses Can we attract
here. And their number one goal was a book manufacturing
I said You're not going to attract manufacturing here I
can't manufacturing brought me here Goodyear And at the time
there was a shipyards It was Goodyear There was harding
carpet There was Kaufman Front They're gone And regardless of
what you do or what our government does or what
Donald Trump claims The manufacturing is not only gone from
this area It's gone from North America It's not Coming
back And my point was what you should be trying
to attract here is You know The type of job
that can also afford the housing here Whether it's insurance
companies Maybe it's people within the healthcare industry You know
that sort of thing We're too far off of 400
series highway for manufacturing There's no rail service And you
know And then I said The other part of it
was which coincided with what I've talked about You know
any employment opportunities And this came up at the candidates
meeting last night Which I was at at the Marsh
Street Centre You know Any kind of employment - driven
opportunities has to coincide with affordable housing. When I brought
that up at the meeting I was told There's not
much we can do about affordable housing That was the
response of the town. I said Well you haven't gotten
much hope Then of attracting employment when you can't do
something to deal with the Affordable Housing issue. And you
know you've got talentable mountain Blue Mountains Resort being one
of the biggest employers in the area. They've got to
create some of their own employment housing Because it isn't
being done with the principal level And that's just You
know That's the way our economy overall has happened over
the years And uh... There's only four countries in the
world where housing is escalated in the price the way
ours is Canada. The UK New Zealand Where I've been
in Australia Ironically four Commonwealth countries. Uh... You know I
periodically go back on and I look up my house
that I had outside Chicago I look at what I
sold it for in 1996 when I moved back here
to what is worth now It went up two or
three percent of year. We went up with the Inflation
Rate It didn't go up 50 percent in six months
Like what we were seeing here during COVID Mr. Crouch
Would you mind address addressing with The Mayor had asked
Yeah sorry So so yeah the factors like that I
do have one client He resides up here on The
weekends I actually sold another property on Cleric Street He
owns 11 condos in Cranberry They're all full - time
rentals. Periodically I show them for him when he's not
here Everybody that I've showed them to you know I
say So what brings you the area? Well it was
one couple She had gotten a job as a nurse
at the Collingwood Hospital Uh... Often it's a younger couple
of them got a job at Blue Mountain Or maybe
one of the private ski cloves Uh... One guy had
gotten a job Managing one of the fast food restaurants
Another guy was actually got a two - year contract
with The Town of Collywood to address some of the
road infrastructure work So these are all people jobs is
what drew them to the area Which got me into
this area back in 1995 I'm a skier Uh... I
jumped at the chance to get out of the Toronto
But the even if the job opportunities are here They've
got to find a place to live And that tends
to be one of the bigger challenges. Thank you follow
up Madam Mayor. Nope No thank you Also but it
was a good point too About The Costa Commuting and
how we can't just rely on people living in one
community and fulfilling a job in another one Because of
the escalating gas cost for example Thank you. Depumir Go
ahead Thank you Madam Chair through you Thanks Rick for
the update on the local market. You're from your point
of view You're looking at this through a resale lens
or development lens Because the couple different ask You know
when we're building houses are building purpose built or having
developers do that And you know things we can do
with the CIP and Accelerant permit in that So to
help with The Affordability Index Um... Because the province doesn't
Classify a Table Housing under Provincial Policy Statement They do
social housing Uh... And... But not attainable housing Affordable in
that... So differently So from a resale I guess You
know from a realtor resale point of view How can
that market help get people in? What's the incentive there
for somebody to I guess buying below market? Or what
are your thoughts on how that resale market can help
get people into attainable type housing. Yeah I mean I
think certainly one of the things that's been faced over
the years is Like the development charges Um I can
think of years ago I sold a two - acre
lot down on the 12 side road So nothing there.
And the developmentaries is running over from 18 to 22,
000 Depending on what the individual was going to build
So he still had to drill the well Put in
a septic You know and drive away and everything else
Okay his question was so what am I getting from
my 20, 000 dollars Well the right to build a
house was kind of it And uh... You know when
you're faced with costs like that How can you build
a reasonable dwelling Mead all the obligations You know whether
it's paying the development fees and build something that's affordable
Even there was something that you could rent out Because
the way you necessarily charge The amount of money that
you would need to generate that back So in a
case with my client He gets he gets 18 or
50 dollars a month for a one bedroom That includes
heat and air conditioning because it's not separately mated So
the tenant pays their own hydro pays their own cable
Whatever The two bedrooms he gets 2250 That's even a
lot of money You know I was you know I
was I remember the first time I took on a
mortgage at 600 dollars a month and I were like
Oh my god what have I done How am I
ever going to pay for this? So somehow You know
it's and I understand the need You know for the
development charges from a revenue standpoint for the municipalities. But
you know it ultimately affects You know the bottom line
And I mean even today And I've got a good
I got a good handle on construction We've done three
projects at our own house here in Clarinsburg in the
last four years I've gotten Billy permits from the mall
So I didn't do anything illegally Uh So I know
the costs And when I see You know I mean
I can look at houses right now for sale on
brewstreet I could build out for less I'm not gonna
why would I buy this for a million dollars You
know again often it's somebody got in over their heads
and paid too much and now they're trying to get
out And but I think overall and certainly we've seen
material costs come down some since COVID But you know
not ultimately probably where it should be. And you know
it's interesting if you do follow the US real estate
market And the television shows where you look at a
house and it's 450 And they're well that host is
here There'd be one in front of the four You
know And so somehow I think there needs to be
There needs to be an initiative certainly at the provincial
level to make house building more More affordable for people
at all price points And regardless of municipality they're in
But I think especially at the level For the first
time buyer And there's some younger generation that they don't
care about owning a house There's a younger generation that
doesn't care about driving a car So they're probably never
going to leave down down Toronto Toronto Because they need
that Public transit to get to work to get to
the grocery stores. But for people up here Uh, you
know my son and his wife bought one of the
new townhomes over in that subdivision in Meford He works
a known sound She works in Hollywood So it's kind
of midway for both of them They go in at
the ground level They got a great price Their first
time buyers It'll by no means be their last house
But it was a good entry - level point for
them to get into a three - bedroom Townhouse with
a garage full basement for just over 300, 000. Like
that's a great deal Do you have a follow -
up? Yeah Just very quickly So I do appreciate it
again We're talking new there as well Right So I
was just wondering in the resale market is one of
the solutions you're thinking of is also Um... Purchase for
rental as investment to help get people into a house
as opposed to home ownership Is that part of your
thought process? Yeah I mean certainly we get asked that
and You know Because people often ask me are instructing
colleagues get the same question Um... If I was to
put a basement If I was put a basement apartment
in or do a unit in the backyard You know
how rentable would it be? And often the comment is
we would need that rental income to afford this house
To help make the mortgage payment, you know? So the
fact that there's more opportunity to do that now As
well as the demand there so that once you finish
that basement apartment Even if it's maybe adding onto your
house with a separate granny flout or whatever you want
to call it The fact that they can do it
Knowing that they can put it on the market and
quickly get it rented. You know that's a bonus Because
to invest that money and then to sit there for
six months to a year When no rental income You
know they really got to take a hard look at
the math to see if that pays or not But
certainly a lot of them Yeah the rental becomes a
key item to make that house affordable for them just
to buy You know. And that especially applies to the
condominia market because they're often used only frequently and Cody
rented out Well yes you can but then there's a
mentioned earlier that triggers EHST issue. So yeah Thank you.
Councillor Porter. Yes Thank you and through the chair And
thank you very much for bringing this forward And I
think The comment I most welcome is when I believe
to be true myself is There's not a lot going
to happen in the next three to five years. The
one thing I wanted to ask as you're talking about
residential homes is because where I live in the Town
I know of I haven't checked the real estate lately
But I go by for sales science on a regular
basis There's two on landsdown one of the corner just
by food land And I think the one that was
a little bit green development still for sale Do you
see any movement on development properties. From what I see
No, it seems to be pretty slow Um, I mean
I think for example of a good example might be
like crigly thridge For example You know the roads went
in and the streets are all layer and there has
a shovel hasn't got in the ground since. Uh, another
example And this is just outside the municipality But back
about five years ago I sold large Acorage just the
other side of Kirsty Beach Road was typically not as
the Irwin property I sold that to Park Bridge Properties
Yeah There's engineering science up there But you see them
putting a shovel in the ground No The other day
I was at a meeting at the clubhouse in Laura
Bay I drove The subdivision I wonder with a fire
West End Which is now owned by Gravegald Holmes. It's
just gathering dust and growing weeds There The developers are
smart enough to know that now is not the time
to be embarking on a major project And I think
that could be two or three years down the road
Especially right now when the huge inventory of properties for
sale That would have to be absorbed before it would
be worthwhile for a developer to start on another major
project And I think that would have to coincide with
drug creation in the market Um... A lot of people
that moved up here during the work from home transition
Now they're required to go back to work And maybe
not full - time But we've got to be in
the office in Toronto One, two, three days a week
I think that's one of the reasons why so many
of the places on the market today were bought during
2021 And people overpaid And to me it's no coincidence
that here we are three five years later Those mortgages
are coming up for renewal Not at one point eight
or two percent but five And we can't afford this
and sorry We had a downsize to something else. Thank
you. Farm - up Council Reporter. No, I'm fine Thanks
Okay, thank you I'm going to go to cancer Ardell
who isn't at a chance to ask a question And
if Councillor Maxwell for going for a second pass. Do
we really need to? Go for a second pass? Okay
needs to be quick Okay Thanks Council Ardell Alright Madam
Chair Thank you very much I think you answered my
question I was going to ask was on the developers
How do we get developers here to do affordable housing?
Real affordable housing Um, and But if we've got an
inventory of houses that people aren't getting rid of There's
no way I know somebody who sat at this table
Two councils ago And he put up the idea that
maybe we should be buying some Townhouses that are already
on the market And then turning them into rentals for
people And that may be The Opportunity then to get
some workplace housing But it's not really The Municipality's job
to do workplace housing I'm in the Apple Industry I
have to supply my own workplace housing And I have
to build it And it's very expensive when you're housing
22 men Um, and I will say men only because
we don't mix Um... But you know It's a lot
of money to be able to do all that So
I think now, you know, and Collingwood's done some great
jumps and leaps of getting affordable housing But that those
came to fruition You know about a year or a
year and a half ago When they had already started
to build Or there was some affordable housing or attainable
housing That a developer, and I won't mention his name
But when The price came in They're not attainable, like
2200, 2, 400 a month Who can afford that? People
in Collingwood can't afford that So I think I've got
the picture here of what we had in attainable housing
that I sat on for a few years Um, but
we couldn't come up with any ideas or solutions So
I think, as you're saying, that there's out there right
now So, and the developers are not ready to dig
in But I did wonder I saw that price in
Meford I'm wondering how they are managing who the developer
is out there So if you have any ideas You
can email us It's certainly, they're synchro EMIX I know
my son's neighbours in there are a mix of younger
people as well as retirees So they seem to be
attracting both Um, I think the fact that it's a
short distance for someone to commute to Owen Sound, the
way my son does, you know, is easy But it's
kind of a Catch - 22 situation You know There's
no point in developing affordable housing if the jobs You
know? And then, you know without the Affordable Housing How
do you attract the jobs? This is why I said
at the meeting I was out in Collywood How, you
know, they have to work hand in hand And the
answer I got from Mr. Howley was there's not much
we can do But Affordable Housing And yet You know
they're reaching out to me asking me How do we
attract jobs? And more importantly, what kind of jobs can
we attract here? And my point at the time was,
you know It's again There's certainly - odd job opportunities
out there And even to cite examples, like say what
revenue of Canada has done in Sudbury. Where the OVP
move their headquarters to Aurelia And it was interesting earlier
You know during the break I was talking to former
Mary Terry Geddes here And I recounted to him a
meeting We had a number of years ago when John
Tory was running for Premier and Terry called me late
one afternoon to come to a meeting And they asked
me what kind of jobs could we create here? And
I turned to John Turry I said Why have you
got thousands of Ontario government employees at Queens Park or
in Toronto When they'd love to be up here They
could be up here You don't have to move raw
materials in off 400 series Highway and finish goods out
And John turned to Terry and said What were we
just talking about? An hour ago And I was what
Derry 25 - 30 years ago. And nothing's happened since,
you know? Uh... You know There's been different municipal campaigns
talking about bringing back automotive Parts manufacturing And they're unattainable
goals You know So somehow the two have to work
hand in hand And I think I think municipalities You
know personally can do more To attract... You know, jobs
that allow the houses here that exist Even at some
of the inflated praises. Are affordable Because the job They're
coming in can afford to pay them, you know? Council
Sardell? No, that's it Thank you very much Thank you
very Councillor Maxwell very quick question Yeah I do, just
a real quick one Okay. On the whole idea about
for this workforce housing. How. Okay, I don't want to
see a person just being a renter. How can they
build up equity and workforce housing? Because when I hear
The word work first Howosing I... Something comes up by
my mind Like mining camps and logging camps You know?
I don't think we want to go back to there
And dentured servants So how do we allow young people
That actually create equity and workforce housing. I don't think
they can create equity to work for housing I think
I think what allows them to do And again My
son and his wife are a good example They moved
up here They had no jobs They wanted to get
out of the city Uh... For about 8 years they
rented The Upper Floor of a Raised Bungalow in Collingwood
They paid 1600 dollars a month They were both... They
both secured Good jobs And you know that fairly affordable
Housing that they rented A lot of them to put
The money aside To make a 30 40, 000 dollar
down payment on the Townhouse that they bought in Meford
So So I think it's more of a... It's a
stepping stone You know They can come here for the
work They can find an affordable place to live Although
renting is not... It's not inexpensive Uh... Barry is probably
one of the highest rental markets in Canada And yet
My steps under his wife Living a large house down
there He has a good job She has a good
job And hopefully with the rent They're paying They're putting
money aside That they'll be able to eventually afford a
house So I don't think a Sea Equity in that
housing that's provided to them Often it's going to be
affordable You know housing Uh... But hopefully it gets some
of the marketplace Where they have a good job They
attan You know good history in terms of You know
their credit Uh... Maybe they advance from their through their
jobs Maybe higher position at Blue Mountain Resort or wherever
it might be And if they're smart enough They're not
spending that money They're putting aside four down payment on
a house Provided of course There's an affordable host They
can put it down payment on down the road When
they're ready And that seems to be the missing gap
right now. Okay Thank you Thank you for your question
Councillor Maxfall Thank you Mr. Crouch Even lots of information
and lots of background Uh At this point We need
to put up the motion Please Uh... That Council The
Town Blue Mountains receives The Deputation of Rick Crouch Broker's
Health Beast International Regarding an update on The local Housing
Market may have a mover in the secondary. Council Reporter
and second - at - bancer McKinley Any further discussion.
Now let's call the vote then please The vote is
open. There we go.
Please Thank you Councillor Porter Nat vote is post. Thank
You that motion is carried 7 - 0 with everyone
in the chambers Thank you very much Mr. Crouch Thank
you. No we'll move on to B. 6. 2 We've
got Terry Getty's Project Coordinator in Chris Malms E... Excuse
me Walmsley. Of The Biden Group Regarding The Grey Road
19 Workforce Uh... Housing So gentlemen You have 10 minutes
And the one - minute warning I'll be watching Thank
you Thank you. First of all Uh thank you. Chair
Hope. Your worship Deputy Mayor and members of Council. I
have listened intently To your presentation since 9 30 this
morning And they brought back a lot of memories Some
not good like crypto Spiridium Et cetera Councillor Ardell You
remember Exactly Uh We're here today to basically ask you
to Advance this MZO during this term of Council. I'm
gonna start with that And then I'm gonna come back
to that again at the end. First of all. Listening
to your discussion today. You can't build anything until you've
done the science on the land. And you can flush
the toilet and drink the water. We've done that We
have done working with your staff Intensive studies You can
see and I won't belabor Our deputation file But you
can see that. Uh Secondly Council Reporter You requested of
us to work for the MV's work with the MBCA.
We had an extremely positive day with them And then
they came back and continued their studies Of course And
to Chris Walmsley's credit We also had torrential rain that
day. So we walk through The land that was water.
And The land that wasn't And it was an excellent
opportunity for them to see Uh... What actually would happen
in such a circumstance. I Want to stress again and
thank you for listening to our Deputation Uh... Earlier last
year. This is an MZ 0 A ministerial zoning order.
It does not take away the control of the municipality.
The detailed planning process still continues The MZ O basically
changes the zoning on the land. We would be looking
to get that land zones so that we can build
612 units of workforce housing. Workforce listening to Mr. Crouch
and understanding having grown up in this area How that
term has changed greatly from industrial to now Uh... Recreational
service And of course Uh... Young professionals. All of whom
can't afford to buy home. I know young docks who
currently are existing in our community You can't do that
Young police officers Et cetera. So having said that. We
believe very much so that this will be a phased
project Stressing that again phased Rome was not built in
a day Right now If you're kind enough to move
this forward We're still looking at probably two years before
shovel can go in the ground Councillor Ardell's point about.
Municipalities It's not their obligation to build workforce housing is
correct. Just like it's not your obligation to build social
housing That's a county responsibility. We believe in the fact
that Mr. Boris Byrne Who was the president of the
Biden Group? We'll be paying for this The question Councillor
Maxwell asked about equity Well there's definitely equity for him
because he's insured in terms of his own businesses and
the businesses and Thornberry and the So Georgian base Surrounding
that area That they know that they'll have a place
for their workforce to work. To live and then work.
So my political experience asking you today When you come
to consider. B. 6. 2. We're asking you to consider
option one. Because what it comes down to if you
direct option one It still must go forward to the
minister and by experience I'm working with the hospital lands
and Collingwood. Which we were successful. The bureaucracy at Queens
Park still has to work with your Bureau of crats.
In terms of determining whether or not we meet The
need of what the municipality has stated. And I want
to say very strongly Congratulations to your CIO and Mr.
Posma and your engineering staff Because they were very difficult
to work with because they held us to the metal
And we believe we met those standards So by asking
for you to move forward now. We are ensuring that
at least it'll get to the minister probably for approval
After Christmas Knowing the way things move if we're lucky.
If we don't get it to the minister this year
We're looking at at least another year And when I
look at The fact that we are all discussing workforce
housing. I think that's an important thing to keep in
mind. So I'm going to close by letting Chris, who's
the director of Operations He would also like to speak
And then I'll come back quickly. Thank you. Um... I
just wanted to tie together Uh... A lot of the...
Comments, uh, pieces that I've heard all day Um... It
seems like the... Competing... goals... And wanting to have workforce
houses and kind of a chicken in the egg scenario
Where... Where... Businesses are needed to support The local economy
Um... Staffing is a difficult ask Um... And a lot
of businesses are being forced to put large capital into
buying And renting their own... Places to their own staff
In order to staff their own businesses. It's exponentially more
difficult when... It's seasonal. Um... And trying to have a
business that's sustainable Uh... Year over year and deal with
seasonal influxes with Staff and housing. And the point earlier
that was made about multiple professionals Young professionals trying to
come up to this Uh... And live up in the
Blue Mountains area Um... Biggest Opportunity wasn't necessarily The jobs
available It was whether they could afford to live here.
Um... To speak to a couple of the points Uh...
For getting their foot in the door Um... I think
that having a workforce housing project build like this 600
units roughly Uh... Proposed at this time would allow people
Young professionals service industry Um... Doctors PSWs to come up
and put roots into the community And accept the jobs
that are available at the time. And then save And
then as businesses are able to release some of their
properties That they have and put back into the market
It kind of fulfills Um... The next level of investment
back into the community Once people are here and working
I Don't think people really want to live this area
I think that once we've established that Precedent and the
lifestyle. Uh... I think it helps to fulfill not only
the economic side But also the future growth of the
community. The project As Terry mentioned Um... We'll be funded
purely by private funds. So this is a solution and
answer to a problem in a crisis That's currently ongoing.
Um... And as he mentioned We're hopeful that... An MZO
Um... Consideration Can move forward So we can look to
provide a very targeted and specific response to this Uh...
Ongoing issue and problem. Thanks. Thank You Chris. So just
to reiterate again What we would like to do is
to ask for you to look at Option 1 Which
would ensure of course The Public Meeting... Which is all
part of The Planning Process Where you get more Input
back from The Public Uh... Just a reminder that we
did hold a Public Meet Meeting in Thornberry And we
did hold some of you attended And we also did
hold one in The village itself. And... We had very
positive response The only one question that came out of
the village Which I think is important was some individuals
thought It was social housing It's not social housing. It's
workforce housing And defining workforce housing today It's anything from
a young professional Uh... Right through to someone who's a
young server at The Port Everywhere. Or Fabrica You name
The Great Restaurants up here. So. Thank You very much
Your Worship And... We're here to answer any questions. Thank
You very much Thank you I apologise Councillor Colt Yes
Chair Hope Chair Hope Yeah no problem So I see
that we have some hands up So first of all
Councillor Maxwell Then The Madam Mayor Go ahead Yeah Thank
you Chair And thank you for the deputation. Um I
have This question. Well two actually Um Have You did
you read The Auditor General's Report On the recent... MZ
O's... What their view of the myths But I'll leave
it at that. I Never read The Audi The General's
report But I can tell you that I do know
that The minister Uh... It's very strong Minister. Clark started
it. And our new current minister have very strong feelings
about The fact that you as a council And we
did in Collingwood Have The right to put in a
checks and balance So I do know that in the
beginning Some MZOs were abused. And I now know that
The ministers, Minister Flack And previous ministers have Mr. Calandra
have put very strict controls around that. So I'm very
comfortable in saying that An MZ O is most definitely
in the control of the municipality Okay That's fair I'm
just going by what The Auditor General said Because I
do believe that's another point of view And you as
a Previous But I'm also admitting that I also know
that some were not followed through on the way They
should have and minister Calandra if you followed that government
minister at the time Was very serious in directing that
those should be rescinded And in the case of the
Collingwood One For example We placed in line Which I
was proud to do as a former mirror. That a
division on those lands are not followed Then Council has
the right to rescind those Have that MZ O rescinded.
It's not about land speculation. Okay Well thank you on
that point Thank you. Second question Yeah because it was
just a lead into what I'm doing here Okay. So
what controls could the municipality put in place. To guarantee
That the Avellin won't become S - TAs or luxury
apartment buildings Because a lot of people have asked that
question It's an excellent question Council at Maxwell. Uh... First
of all I want to go back to the fact
that The MZ O only changes the zoning on the
land. You then control what's going to happen in the
site plan. And the detailed planning process that follows that.
The one control that I personally would put on it
And I've discussed this with The team. If the vision
on the land is not followed through on And you
will see that very early. And Council has a Opportunity
to rescind that You can look at other opportunities too
if you want. Before it's carried through on. Chair Hope
used the term committed earlier in the discussion around water
and development. We are committed to getting this done. Councillor
Porter mentioned The term uncertainty and where we're at right
now We are in very uncertain times. Mr. Crouch mentioned
The fact that we are in a situation Whereby Chair
Hope can we stick to the deputation. Sorry. Sorry Let's
go on to thank you We'll go on to Madam
Mayor. We're in a situation that Mr. Hold on I
think we've been asked to move forward So I'm going
to go on to the mayor Thank you Okay Thank
you. Okay, then I guess I have two questions Um
Thank you through the chair My first question is Um...
I've appreciated very much all the background documentation that's available
on the website Certainly the connection technologic development is there
The answers are there to look at One question I
have is with the recent visit Site visit of NVCA
and the resulting Uh... Reporting that we've seen both from
staff as well as what was submitted by you as
the proponents Um... There was some... And maybe this was
part of The Craig Leth The Craig Leaf Public Public
Input Session... There was some discussion about You know What
is The Community Impact in terms of it's a large
property There's some beautiful areas there Which NVCA would have
identified about which will not be built on But what
kind of discussion or what have you learned since you
last came forward to us about The Concept About a
circular trail For example going around the property so that
not just the 600 resins Not just the 600 units
would be able to benefit But that it will become...
A community impact imprint on The amenities that are available
there to everyone that lives in a gut area. First
of all trails were committed to any type of trails
That's the connectivity that we have in So George and
Bray I speak with great experience there. Do you want
to answer any of the Harris question on what the
buildings are going to be? Yeah So I think the
good section that we've left for tree Uh... That we
could look into doing different trails and connect to the
greater trail system Um right on grey road 19 there
So we've allocated quite a bit of amenity space Uh...
As well as connecting to future trails. And as well
as across the street existing trails. Okay Thank you Might
also your worship Uh... There will be guidelines in terms
of the architecture. And there will be a team managing
team management to ensure that it is workflowsizing No BNBs
Not Reynolds for skiers Et cetera. Mr. Byrne has made
total commitment to that. Okay Thank you Second question Madam
Mayor Certainly then I will ask a second question Because
we did hear a very related deputation just prior to
Bigger scope So to zero in on this particular deputation
The material has been shared online But if... In response
to The discussion that we've had about needing to have
The workforce housing in the right location Uh... My question
through the chair is could you please underscore the connection
about what you're trying to do What you are what
your group is trying to do specifically to fill a
specific need We heard generalities earlier I'd like to hear
that specifics Thank you Okay. Connectivity is everything. And as
Mr. Crouch said a moment ago gas prices are up
and has my mother told me they're not coming back
down once they go up. Uh the reality is that
we are going to be looking at Uh The whole
opportunity A for parking for those who can't afford cars
And most importantly for connectivity through Public Transit. And the
location where they are the buildings will be located in
the village There will be connectivity back to The workforce
that's needed in the village through either a trail system
or busing Uh... For those who have jobs up in
Tharnberry or Collingwood or whatever That will be a parking
situation. Thank you Alright, thank you Councillor Porter. Yes, thank
you. So I sit on another West Saga Conservationist Yes
I know. Okay. Anyways Thank you very much for your
deputation And I'm actually glad that you have been here
for most of the day So you would have heard
The earlier conversations where I expressed my concern about how
we're going to pay for The infrastructure Infrastructure that will
support this MZO. It's going to be a big cost.
So my question to you is because really The residents
of this town through their tax levy would have to
bankroll it. So with this development If you as you
do You want an MZO Have you considered front loading
any infrastructure costs to assist us in this process? Because
the GCs are now not collectible to occupancy. My I'm
known as the mayor who had The model that development
pays for development Council Reporter Then I expect you That's
a very fair question on your part But at the
same time I think that's something that would have to
be discussed with Mr. Burn The President I think is
a very fair question It for me it is the
question for me as far as I'm concerned because otherwise
Because right now, because you heard today I have very
big concerns about constructing in the event of planning. And
I'm one of these that I didn't need to be
told today that nothing's going to happen for a couple
of years So it is a big ticket item for
this town too I would and I'm going to use
the word bankroll Because that's what it is dret Waiting
for DCs to come in. And not knowing what's going
to happen with them So I guess I'm just sort
of saying with this development If you're asking for an
MZO looking to have some skin in the game that
if you need The infrastructure You play a role in
helping that happen. I understand that I also understand The
importance of workforce to a municipality. And I understand the
tax roles Lots of experience around that But I also
understand the essence and the spirit of community is still
based on supporting the workforce So that is a very
good question around the support financially That's one would go
back to Mr. Byrne. I just want to go on
I'd just like you to be made clear I'm very
supportive of workforce housing. And I have worked with McPherson
Builders as they have developed their concept I also introduced
home opportunities to The Town for Workforce Housing for St.
Louis Vis originally So I... These don't question my support
for work Process No I wasn't questioning you I was
uniting you and I together in the fact that we
support workforce hosing Okay Thank you Thanks very much On
to Council Sardell please Great Thank you Um and through
the chair Just on the continuation of the infrastructure Mr.
Getty's Um... When we develop five of those Um... Developments
Windfall Um... It was in second nature Then it was
something else And there was five developers that came And
they contributed 20 million dollars to upgrade and get the
infrastructure there So along with Councillor Porter I think that's
what as a town I have that experience sitting here
That maybe that's the other discussion So you would have
to take that away as well And I think it's
a very good point My second point would be If
we put an MZ O on this We did that
at 120... We didn't The Council Previous Put an MZ
O on it Just before we came in And then
they deliberated Then it went to a chia Then the
chia came off Now it's an MZ0 But that M
said Oh it's still on there And I was told
that we cannot take this off And I had discussions
Um... And... At AMO And I was just recently elected
to The Caucus again at Amos So congratulations by the
way I've got some experience in some connections over all
these years with people there So that's where I'm a
little confused with speaking with MPP Flak Um... Of how
these MZOs are going to work Because how do we
get that off? Because we've got a property out there
that Well it must be shovel ready too That's the
newest thing I agree But newest If I can't get
ready Councillor Ardell Another extremely valid point One of the
conditions that I know what I would put on It
would be a timeline. Timeline to construction. Yes And if
that doesn't work. Those were the old days Those conditions
can be there now Timeline the construction Timeline to the
vision Timeline to the commitment. Most important thing is that...
I'm involved in this because of the passion for it.
The reality is that Mr. Byrne is attempting to fulfill
a need with private money. The municipality and share obligation
as council to ensure that the community municipality has not
put at risk. Put those conditions in. You can work
with your staff to do that What we're asking today
is you consider option one Which will allow that to
happen Chris You want to see it? Sorry I just
wanted to say one quick thing Just about Umfructure and
additional Um of the places you're referencing are for quite
larger homes and If it gets factored in, then I
think that increases the cost the overall cost of the
units The rental would increase with it Uh... Kind of...
To scale. Um... So it is something we can consider
However I think it'll increase the overall rent in the
feasibility of the project remaining Workforce Housing Um... And also
talking about Um... All day about The kind of flat
and people not necessarily building right now Um... We're still
proposing to build and move forward with it So earlier
they had mentioned only 100 units roughly This year, a
slight decrease over Uh... And... You know the... I apologise
The First Women Forest The gentleman mentioned Correct Mr. Crouch
Excuse me Um mentioned that Um... You know He doesn't
see anything being flat for the next two to three
years Um So we're proposing a solution Um... That would
solve housing crisis for workforce housing Um... We can definitely
look into the other piece But again I think it's
just gonna inflate the overall cost of the project Um
And if we don't have a need with the capacity
If the capacity is down Uh... Maybe we can do
it in a phased approach and allow us to slowly
build in and structure as other things come online Towards
the natural development of upgrades. Yeah And don't get me
wrong I'm all about workplace housing Mr. Gettys You know
that I had two daycares And my families needed You
know They need a daycare And they needed workplace housing
So it is in order Um... But I have to
go back to the ministry and get some more of
my questions answered from Mr. Flack Because I have a
direct pipeline now So I can get some answers But
yeah, it'll be interesting to see So thank you Okay
On to the Deputy Mayor Thank you Madam Chair Through
you Um In regards to you know when you People
hear the initial MZO Those are scary three initials for
people Um other residents and things like Um... Because they're
not sure What happens because they feel all permissions come
off the land We did declare a housing crisis in
the community Um... We're nowhere near hitting any of these
targets Everybody has talked about since Before my time on
council Ray pairs You know housing Housing Housing So What
And I won't get into the specifics of the report
Because we're gonna be discussing that in the options available
to us and what one does as leads to a
Public Meeting and not make any commitments But I guess
my question to you is in my concern is This
is directly across from now What was going to be
I think The original concept of the area I think
people thought about secondary residents Um skiing And that's become
a community now Similar to we have in Laura Bay
Clarksburg Thornberry So this directly Um in that same area.
How do you feel the fit into the community Putting
612 I think it is units into there with some
height densities that are only seen at the village I
know you said you're going to take it away from
the road You're going to step the building But fitting
into the I don't want to use it where character
like we always do But fitting into the character of
the community Which is now a school bus jobs and
things like that And it's already a very busy intersection
Yeah a lot of the structure and the design of
the whole project is based around First of all Exciting
place for people to live Uh they want to be
passionate and excited about living there But also the surrounding
community As well as creating its own little community Uh,
as well So we're looking at doing commercial and stuff
in there to try and create a kind of self
- sustained Uh... Quick shops and stuff like that Um,
but I think how it integrates in as far as
look and appeal Um We're not looking for a drastic
variance It's to go with the surrounding community and the
appearance Uh... kind of everything around Um... And to try
and integrate in as best we can. Thank you Just
a quick follow - up Go ahead Yeah Thank you
for that In a community with a community Another Committee
is great So do you anticipate I could see people's
fear saying Oh this is going to be You know
dorm rooms And people work You know Just Where do
you and not to get too far into the detailed
minutiae of the design But do you see families living
there Um... You know The server at the port I
know virtually all of them So they are with families
and married And children who will go to school and
things like that So is that part of the anticipation
you see of this community that you're going to build
for the workforce housing? Correct Yeah so we're looking at
one two and three bedroom units So different size families
and different Different ability for each home to house each
family. Thank you. And deputy Mayor There would also be
amenities put in place for those families. Councillor McKinley Thank
you for your patience Go ahead No problem Thank you
Madam Chair and through you to the gentleman Thank you
for your presentation I greatly appreciate the opportunity that you're
bringing forward Uh So the At the end of the
day at like As Mr. Crouch had said with real
estate You know it's all location location location So to
me this fits the bill It's right on a transit
route It's not right beside a whole bunch of people's
homes with five stories looking down into their Uh because
I do recall an initial discussion about that This is
a different design A different take Now I know it's
there again Uh madam chair I'm going to stick to
parameters of the request here Um, but do you propose
that because for design wise I did read how it's
or I reread really refresh my memory there that it's
uh... To be The wedding cake or the staged Now
is that in the same manner to mirror across the
street at the corner of windfall with that That is
a particular design that has several stories that you that
is integrated so well that you can't really notice. Is
that the intent You're a hundred percent correct The first
building is along 19 would be three stories Right And
knowing I was a situation and Collingwood with people that
I know and love dearly Uh, they have an apartment
building behind them where they can't vote on their own
deck. We're not going to let that happen Right. Right
I'm not here to pick the petunias to go into
planters either Exactly Um, but Sorry through you Madam Chair.
I'm not trying to be funny I'm just saying like
I can appreciate Um I you know I appreciate what
you're bringing forward and the fact that as we recall
You're you know it's not a five story building That's
that no matter what buffering or what kind of trees
might be put in You'd still be looking right down
into somebody's backyard or their back windows So this is
not it Um just as a follow - up or
quickly Madam chair Uh the Public Engagement you had with
the couple of properties that are nearby Um, did they
participate in the engagement process so far So far Yeah,
we did a bunch of active surveys Uh in different
communities So we did Collingwood Blue Mountain as well as
Thornberry Uh, business owners and got their feedback on it
Uh, as well as the home right in the middle
that used to own the property as well Um, they
sold it to us and our residing there. Once they
passed It was their family home So they want to
stay there But they know the idea and the scope
and what the plan is And they're excited about it.
Yeah Okay I appreciate that Uh very much that you
know you've gone that extra mile to Engage the people
that would be You know that are directly affected by
any kind of a build Whether it's three stories, five
more stories, five stories Or any kind of stories Uh,
just a final one Madam Chair And I won't I
won't belabor this But at the end of the day
You know I appreciate what you're I appreciate what you're
bringing forward And I'm all for it Because at the
end of the day You're talking about You know We
know that, you know along with agriculture is a tourism
is our main driver Is like agriculture is one of
the biggest drivers Um, but our tourism is what's going
to carry us through these turbulent darkened lonely times And
that's where in order to buffer or to facilitate that
These folks need a place to stay So I'm all
for it Thank you. Thank You Council McKinley Um that
leaves me for questions Um first one is you mentioned
busing And I'm going to add in services So is
that a consideration that you'll be providing bussing services To
the workforce or to specific members of the workforced So
far right now we have proposed bus within the community
like a stop Um, we have Bike racks and things
like that as well Um Depending on we've had initial
talks with different businesses and in the village And a
lot of them are interested in quite large numbers I
could foresee them doing something for a bus to connect
Um, but it's still early in the planning But it
has been discussed already, yes. Okay, thank you And that
I'm hopefully integrated with other busing solutions Other transit solutions
It would be integrated with the Collingwood Blue Mountain Lincoln
Okay Thank you very much And the second one Normally
we don't include Staff when it's a deputation But since
I'm The chair I'm going to take advantage of that
So through myself I'm going to ask C. R. C.
A. O. I think it's very important that we have
correct information about MZ O's So it is my understanding
as it is out of Councillor Dell as well That
once an MZO is granted on property It cannot be
lifted That's been our experience And I'm just wondering through
me to CAO Do you have a comment on that
please. Uh Yes through the chair It would likely be
at the minister's discretion In terms of if it was
to be lifted to the point earlier There's been some
changes governing Uh MZ O's to which Uh... And that's
something We remain kind of in certainly the staff report
Maybe could Outline this as well in understanding the conditions
That could be applied Den Zedos Because that was not
previously The Previously The case. Yeah then That's what we're
living with right now So I think for our audience
We want to make sure that they have the full
background Uh... And look forward to the Staff Report Okay
Thank you very much. Councillor Maxwell We're going We're talking
second pass Do we really need it? Battery Snap Yeah
Thank you It's very snappy. Okay Thank you Great Council
Artel You have another one. I do too Okay Alright
obviously then I need to accept a second No it's
okay I'll accept a second Pass I have to offer
to all members of Council Go ahead Thanks for Maxwell.
So So you're going to be the owner The Biller
of this building The product. Uh proponent of It's under...
Yes. Yeah Okay. So and the idea is to create
workforce housing for I'm assuming Blue Mountain and the Blue
Mountain Village Is that correct? Uh The Community The Greater
Community And we're planning on utilising it as well Yes
Also it would include Collingwood Thornberry Instrounding Area. So the
Workforce Housing is also going to serve as Collingwood. Okay
The region I would hope that we all think as
regionalists And we supported you. Know from day to time
anywhere Okay. Thank you But the reality is is that
you have a plant Agnora Which is beside basically not
that far from where it's going to be built And
I will guarantee you that a lot of residents who
currently live in Thornberry Potentially work in that plant. It
just like in Collingwood We have many people who work
at the village in Blue Mountain and vice versa. So
when it comes to housing I do not look upon
that as a political issue I look upon it is
something to provide for people And that's been the statement
that I gave to Mr. Byrne. Okay Thank you Council
Ardell Uh yes I'll be very quick So when we
bring families into this workplace housing Uh Mr. Getty You
being a principal previously How do we get the schools
to even talk to us? Because we need a school
in Craig Neef And if we're going to have lots
more children with 615 homes We need a school So
would you be willing to go to the board for
us? You so deem that we would be there to
support you with The increase that student population. Thank you.
Thank you very much With no portables Uh I don't
see any other hands I do want to grant everyone
Oh Madam Mayor Go ahead. Thank you Well just I
just would like to revisit just for clarity The comment
So I am hearing through the chair to The deputance
if you could just confirm What I'm hearing is that
this is very much about residents of the Blue Mountains
Finding something affordable to live in so that they are
close enough to their workplace their workplace may be within
the Town Blue Mountains It may be something that's on
the outlie But here they are in our town trying
to stay in our town and can't find a reasonable
place to live Is that correct? Thank you. Okay Thank
you Madam Mayor. Anyone else. Because I can see that
we wanted The second pass Alright If we could please
have the motion put up Thank you challenge Thank you
very much Gentleman Both of you And the motion I'm
looking for mover in a second Moment that Council The
Town Blue Mountains receives the Deputation of Terry Gede's Project
Coordinator Cold Coordinator And Chris Walmsley Director of Operations The
Byte - em Group regarding Grey Road 19 Workforce Housing.
Who's a mover in a secondary? So move Madam Chair
Council Second And seconded by The Mayor. I Don't see
any hands up for any further discussion So I'll call
the boat Avote is open.
The vote is closed. Thank you That motion is carried
7 - 0 with everyone in the chamber. Alright Thank
you very much Now we're moving on to the Public
Comment period I'm aware that there are some members of
the Public Who would like to speak It's regarding matters
included in the planning and building portion of The Meeting
Before I read this Did we have a... We do
our respect Um... Respectful behaviour. Um... Reeding earlier this morning
Right We did not actually. Madam Jay We did not
Okay I'm going to ask you to go ahead with
that first Thank you. And then I'll do mine.
Before we begin I would like to remind everyone The
Town of The Blue Mountains is committed to maintain a
safe Respectful and professional environment for all meetings and interactions
involving Council, the Public and Townstaff And accordance with the
Town's Respectful Public Interactions Policy PUL COR 2207 Courteous and
Respectful Communication is required at all times Behaviour that is
disruptive inappropriate or disrespectful will not be tolerated This includes
any comments or conduct that is threatening harassing discriminatory or
abusive All speakers are expected to address council and staff
respectfully and keep comments focused on the matter before Council
If these expectations are not met The chair may issue
a warning direct the speaker to stop or take further
steps to maintain order and ensure The meeting can proceed.
Thank you Madam Deputy Clerk Um... Every speaker is allotted
Three minutes and there'll be a bell when you've got
one minute left Uh And this is The Pradyute In
accordance with the Town Procedural bylaw 2026 - 44 10
minutes is allotted at the beginning and end of each
section of the Committee of the whole meeting To receive
Public comments regarding the matters included on the agenda Each
person shall provide their name and address and is required
to address their comments to the chair Comments shall not
refer to personal litigation or potential litigation matters Or being
response to matters that have been the subject of a
Public meeting It being noted that the verbal commenting period
has ended. Written correspondence may still be received in response
to matters that have been The subject of a Public
Meeting If a person is unable to personally attend the
meeting or during any period where an emergency has been
declared to exist in the municipality They shall provide their
Public comments and writing to the clerk in advance of
the meeting where the clerk to read on behalf of
the author during the Public Comment period So first of
all Madam Deputy Clerk Have you received any comments? We
have not for the station anymore Uh and in the
chamber hands up those of you who would like to
make a comment. Okay Just one member of the chamber
Okay Alright thank you very much Uh If you'd like
to come forward again three minutes with a little minute
warning And if we could have your name and your
address Please Um I'm Angela Greenway and I live at
135 Claire Glenn in The Town of Blue Mountains. Uh
I'm a member of the South Glen Rate Pairs Association.
As local residents we are expressing our concerns regarding The
proposed MZO for grey road 19 housing development. To be
clear We are not opposed for this property to be
used for workforce or attainable housing. In fact our preference
is to work closely with the developers To know what's
going on from the ground up and see a successful
outcome for all. What we are asking for is that
any development proceed in a manner that is consistent with
the standards and policies established by our official plan and
bylaws Particularly as they pertain to height density setbacks and
environmental protection The applicant is asking for an MZO on
a proposal that can best be described as vague and
lacking important details. The applicant appears to want to fast
- track the process to avoid red tape which promotes
a build now and plan leader approach to development. That
should be raising red flags with everyone in this room.
Specifically we would like counsel to address the following four
items. Number one. This proposed disproposal represents a significant deviation
from the official plan Staff note in their report that
the proposed density is 65 units per hectare compared with
the 10 units per hectare maximum Generally applicable to surrounding
areas and that heights of up to six stories are
proposed where council's general direction has been three stories with
four or five stories contemplated only in very specific circumstances
Because the proposal remains conceptual and illustrative in nature at
a recent open house in Craig Leith in May Staff
were unable to answer even the most basic questions Including
the number of buildings anticipated to be four or five
or six stories in height. Number two this is a
future secondary plan area without a secondary plan Staff themselves
identified the appropriateness of granting these site - specific permissions
in advance of the future secondary plan process as an
issue requiring further review We believe that broader planning work
should inform a development of this magnitude rather than having
one property established permissions in advance of that process Number
three what about the unresolved infrastructure impacts staff have identified
issues regarding well - in wastewater capacity Offsite infrastructure requirements
traffic and access stormwater management parks emergency services and schools
as all requiring further review Most importantly the NVCA has
not formally commented on this project. Number four how does
this proposal align with the First Pillar of the Strategic
Plan to deliver transparent effective and evidence - based governance
and decision - making? Not only do we see a
decision being made here without much evidence I'm almost done.
Not only do we see a decision being made here
without much evidence and MZO has significant long - term
and irreversible implications It can establish site - specific land
uses and development parameters including density building height setbacks environmental
protection boundaries and can prevail over conflicting municipal zoning provisions
Giving these powers it is difficult to reconcile the pursuit
of an MZO MZO with a proposal that is incomplete
and does not conform to the town's official bylaws or
Town's official plan and existing bylaws How is it possible
that council could support or take any steps towards an
extraordinary planning mechanism such as an MZO before the town's
planning staff by their own admission have not even completed
their review Bottom line is this application feels more like
a project sketched on a napkin than a clear organised
and detailed plan staff are being asked to seriously consider.
As residents we deserve the opportunity to understand in detail
what is actually being proposed How it conforms to the
town's planning framework and what the implication will be for
the surrounding community and environment This is especially important given
that the MZO takes planning away from the community and
council which gives people with no ties to this community
the ability to make decisions for this community In addition
in MZO is not something that can be appealed to
the OLT so residents loof all loose all ability to
ask for changes. We appreciate that Council has declined this
request multiple times in the past with respectfully ask that
is elected leaders and stewards of our community You choose
option three at this time and until a detailed transparent
and fully supported development plan is brought forward through the
Mississippi Planning process In closing considering the vagueness of the
proposal and the multitude issues still is unresolved We have
one final an important question to ask What is it
we are actually moving forward on. Okay, thank you very
much There's no interplay Uh... with Public Comments There's no
exchange with Council Any further members of the chamber who
would like to speak at this time just checking again.
Going twice. Going thrice and now I'm gonna close Public
comment now and we'll move on to yes Sorry Madam
chair We do have a member of the Public Virt
Virtual He may Mr. Lampressofer But he may want to
speak at the next Public Common period But I do
want to mention he is on there. Thank but not
I can still close the Public comment period Or does
Mr. Lampresthorfer wish to speak. Um if he would raise
his hand if he does. I'm sorry I can't see
No So we could catch Oh there's his hand. There's
a sand Okay Mr. Lamprestor for you have The floor
for three minutes Go ahead. B turn on your camera
too please.
Is that a Richard you're muted. We can't hear you
Mr. Lamper Sofer.
Wonder if at this point Madam Deputy Clerk If you
could Let Mr. Lampresurfer know that he has another opportunity
Uh speak comment. Period at the end I'm sorry that
That we haven't been able to connect. Okay I'm going
to move on then. Um so on to B. 8
correspondence there is none Now we're moving on to bean
point nine Staff Reports And the first one is B.
9. 1 Recommendation report land exchange request Navy your street
west and tenth line slash B. Restreet South PBS 0.
2 6. 061. And who in the staff would like
to take that on. Ms. Marwa Go ahead. Thank you
good afternoon Council members and everyone present My name is
Deksha Marwaha Senior Planner with the Town This report is
regarding the request to purchase Napier Street Rhode Alons The
request was made by Mr. Lampresthorfer Who owns the adjacent
property at the corner of the 10th line and B
- Re streets south. If the proposed land exchanges approved
the applicant would acquire the road allowance. In exchange the
town would acquire the triangular parcel at the corner of
10th line and beaver street Um and information report on
this matter was brought forward at the April 28th Cal
meeting Where two options were presented to Council Council Directed
Staff to proceed with option 2b which was to Initiate
the process to declare the road allowance surplus And involve
the Town's traffic technologist in the process. Following the information
report a Public Meeting was held in June and no
comments and objection were received as part of the Town's
review process Staff received comments from Operations Division The Comments
noted that the that exchanging the road allowance for a
triangular corner parcel may provide benefit for future intersection needs
Um There are no immediate improvements Um, to the Intersect
There are no immediate improvements to the intersection Our planned
and there are no projects identified But the land exchange
would provide the town with an opportunity to secure the
triangular parcel for potential future improvements rather than relying on
a future purchase or negotiations. Following the closure the road
allowance will be zoned development and open space in accordance
with the towns zoning bylaw And any future development would
have to comply with the applicable zoning Overall Staff are
recommending that the road allowance be transferred to the applicant
in exchange for the triangular parcel Um, we also have
make the traffic technologies joining us virtually and that's it
from a presentation Thank you and happy to answer the
questions. Thank you Ms. Marowa I am looking for some.
Comments or questions from council at this point. We do
have the motion on the board Okay Councillor Porter go
ahead I'll move the recommended motion Thank you cancer Porter
and Second Madam Chair Second by Councillor McKinley And Madam
Depe Clerk if you'd like to read out The motion
please. Certainly madam chair The Council receive Staff Report PBS
26... oh sorry. 061 entitled recommendation report land exchange request
Napier Street West and 10th line slash beaver street south
And that Council enacted by a lot to stop up
and close the Napier Street West road allowance and deem
The land surplus to the needs of the corporation And
that Council approved the transfer of the Napier Street West
road allowance to the Applicant with the lands to be
merged with the applicant's property in exchange for the transfer
of the triangular parcel owned by the Applicant at the
corner of 10th line and beaver street south to the
corporation of the Town of Blu Mountains. Thank you very
much I don't see any further hands for. Do you
wish. I could make a comment on this page I
just want I just wanted to ask The Planner Um
normally we pay our costs in the applicant pays their
cost Is that not correct? Or is it different in
this case? Are we paying his costs or is he
paying his gospel. Sorry the applicant will pay the cost
Right yeah Yes that's what I thought Okay I think
there was some discrepancies on that Thank you very much
Okay Thank you very much I think at this point
Uh fleet your hands down Okay Thank you I don't
see any other hands So I'm going to ask Deputy
Clerk to call the vote please vote is open.
That. Boat is closed. Thank you that motion is carried
with all members of Council or of the committee Present.
Moving on to the next Staff Report V. 9. 2
Assumption report Second nature phase 3 PBS. 26. 046 Thank
you. And if you could state your name and remember
our stuff Go ahead. My name is Ahmed Khalil I'm
a development engineering reviewer I'm here today to present the
Assumption Report for Second Nature Phase 3. The Report recommends
that cancel Act Byla to approve full acceptance and assumption.
Of the Public Works Constructed and installed within Oh sorry
Sir Could you speak up a little more Thank you
Yeah within registered plan of subdivision 16 M - 69
And that cancel in Acta byla to assume the streets
of registered plan 16 amp - 69 for Public Use.
As an overview The subdivision agreement between Skyline Blue Mountain
Developments and the Town was stated September 23 2019. And
it provided for the assumption of the subdivision. Upon review
by development engineering staff and by consultation with other Town
Departments The agreement terms have been satisfied for assumption. Development
engineering staff have determined that all developer applications have been
met. As noted in the certificate of final acceptance Under
the subdivision agreement. The second nature subdivision was developed in
three phases Phase one and two were previously assumed by
the town in 2022. For the analysis I'll highlight that
the certificate of final acceptance was issued on July 23rd
2026 and Consultation with other town departments Uh, that all
works have been completed as set out Um, on the
attached assumption Acceptance checklist. Um, choose attachment 2. The quantities
of Public Works infrastructure to be assumed Uh, are provided
in the report Uh, that's page 3 for reference. And
also the subdivision agreement provided for a road guarantee which
will expire on July 23rd 2031. Um The road guarantee
security will continue to be retained beyond assumption Until the
road guarantee period expires and the term is satisfied. A
draft bylaw has been prepared to initiate the following and
is provided as attachment 4. Number 1 All the Public
Works Constructed and installed in accordance with the subdivision agreement
for registered plan 16 m - 69 Including the traffic
control devices shown on that proved drawings. And trail within
land subject to walkway eastment Registration number GY180991 are hereby
accepted and is humed. Number 2 Springside crescent Cattail Crescent
Stonely Drive Readway and Silwater Crescent as shown on registered
plan 16 amp. 69. Are hereby ACM for Public Use
And number three that the town assumes all dedicated blocks
within registered plan 16 and. 69 S - listed there.
Finally for Public Engagement in Advance of the Staff Report
being brought to the Committee of the Hall Development Engineering
has provided a notice of assumption Uh... Two residents within
development being assumed This notice of assumption is included as
attachment 3 and was posted on the Town's website. On
July 15 2026. Um. Thank you. That's all happy to
take any questions. Thank you Mr. Kyle. Questions from council.
Uh. The Dippy Mirror Go ahead Thank you Madam Chair
through you Uh. Thank you for the report Just an
assumption checklist It didn't list The trail and the connectivity
through Montre That even though it's not in the assumption
list because we're not assuming it That has been done
and completed to development engineering's standard. Through the chair Yes
The Walkway was constructed through the golf course Um... As
pedestrian connection between The second nature phase 3 and Plateau
e - subdivision And the land is not part of
the registered PS 16 M69 And that's why Um... That
walkway is meant was registered and conveyed to the town.
Okay great Thank you. Thank you Councillor Porter. Yes Thank
you Um I just like to thank you for a
very comprehensive and complete report. Thank you council Porter. Uh
I don't see any other hands I don't know if
we could have the motion put on the screen Please.
That would be great. Thank you And the motion reads
that Councillor receive Staff Report PBS. 26. 046 entitled Assumption
Report Second Nature Phase 3 The Council Act a bylaw
to approve full acceptance and assumption The Public Works Constructed
and installed within registered plan of subdivision 16M - 69
And the Council and Act of bylaw to assume the
streets of registered Plan 16M - 69 Republic youth namely
Springside Crescent Cacktail Crescent Stonely Drive Readway And still water
crescent Could I have a mover in a seconder please?
So move Okay I heard Councillor Ardell and I heard
Uhr McKinley. Thank you very much. Any further discussion. At
this point Alright then I'll ask the Deputy Clerk to
call the vote Please vote is. Thank you. Ne vo.
Is closed. And the motion is carried with all members
of the Committee Present Thank you very much Mr. Khalil
B. 9. 3 Recommendation Report Application for zoning bylaw amendment
People care long - term care And McPherson rental housing
PBS. 26. 063 And who's going to be taking that
Alright Mr. Posma Madam Chair I asked her why don't
we can we take a break because we have just
two reports to go Sure. Back at 5'2 or... Okay
Alright Thank you So we'll all be back at 355
Thank you very much Turn your cameras off Please and
your microphones. That was really cool.
Testing. Testing. No.
Okay, Madam Deputy Clerk, it is 355, and we do
have a quorum sitting at the table. Thank you. Madam
Mayor.
Thank you for that break, Madam Mayor. Thank you. Sorry,
Madam Chair. Moving on to our next section, which is
B. 9. 3, recommendation report, application for zoning bylaw amendment,
people care long - term care and McPherson rental housing
PBS - 0. 26. 063, and Mr. Postman, as I
recall, is taking that. Go ahead. Thank you. Yes, thank
you, Madam Chair. So my name is Sean Postma. I
am the manager of Community Planning here with The Town
of Blue Mountains, and I'll be providing an overview of
today's report. So this report does consider two coordinated zoning
bylaw amendment applications located in Craig Leith and Grey Road
19 area. The first application is for 192 - bed
three - story, long - term care home proposed by
people care. This project is located, obviously, on Town Lance,
directly adjacent to the Craig Leaf Fire Hall that is
currently under construction. At the same time, we're also considering
an application for zoning bylaw amendment from McPherson Home Farm
that is proposing purpose - built rental units, which consists
of 112 units on block 238, which is adjacent to,
directly adjacent to the fire hall and long - term
care home site, and is located on block. 238, which
is part of the home farm, original subdivision lands. By.
Home farm. So yeah, this report does deal with these
two applications. There was a separate Public meeting that was
considered at the same time for a telecommunication tower on
the fire hall lands. However, that will be reviewed under
a future staff report. So these applications, these two applications
are being considered together, because since we first started this
process, both the proponents, their project teams in the town
have been working collaboratively together to advance both these projects
forward. We've been having joint recurring regular occurring meetings, as
well as prompt and quite coordinated responses between all parties.
So there has been full cooperation between all the groups,
and it has led to an extremely efficient file review
while still maintaining our minimum requirements in standard requirements as
part of our planning review process, Planning Act requirements, and
the detailed analysis that's involved with reviewing these types of
applications. These two particular sites, as described in the report,
our link through much of the infrastructure, the long -
term care project does rely on elements that will be
delivered through the broader home farm development. And this includes
things like sanitary sewer, municipal water, stormwater infrastructure, future Public
Road. And in turn, the home farmlands will also accommodate
certain servicing and stormwater connections also needed for the long
- term care facility. Both of these properties are currently
zoned development D. So they both do require a zoning
bylaw amendment in order to permit the use. The People
Care Long - Term Carolina's, the recommendation before you today
is to rezone the property to an institutional eye zone,
as well as implementing an exception and holding provisions in
addition to that institutional zone. The proposed zoning, which is
included as attachment to the report, would permit the long
- term care home. And we'd also include site -
specific provisions addressing a maximum building height of 12 metres
and three stories, reducing the loading space requirement down to
two, providing modified barrier - free parking dimensions, flexibility for
retaining wall if required through the detailed engineering design, as
well as relief from the usual requirement for frontage onto
an open and maintained municipal road. For the McPherson Rental
Housing Lance, the recommendation here is to rezone those lands
from the development D - zone to the residential R2
zone, as well as providing similar exception in holding provisions.
In addition to that, residential zone, there's also a proposal
to put these lands in an open space zone to
recognise the OpenSpace lands associated with the remainder of block.
238. The zoning that's attached to this report here also
recognises some site - specific exceptions. The first is to
require that these lands be used for purpose - built
rental tenure. So tying in the purpose - built rental
model into the zoning. Also establishing the maximum 112 units,
as well as site - specific parking and road frontage
provisions. Similar to the People Care site. For both properties,
there's also a holding symbol that is proposed. And the
holding symbol, they do mirror each other for both sites.
Essentially what it does is it prevents the construction of
the principal buildings until the town is satisfied that certain
works and matters are resolved and secured. So these are
essentially conditions that are applied that would need to be
satisfied before construction could begin. The holding provision would allow
for certain limited site works, including things like pre -
servicing, some early grading, and things like that. But essentially
no building construction could start until that holding H is
removed. I also want to note as well that both
proponents McPherson and, people care, are actively working to satisfy
those holding each provisions. There are two requirements. One is
for a road access agreement. Uh, this is to cover
off the fact that both these properties do not have
frontage onto an open and maintained municipal road. So this
road access agreement would just be a temporary measure to
fill that void until those public roads are constructed as
part of the home farm subdivision. So they are in
the long term. They will be provided, so this is
just a temporary fix for that. The second component to
the Holy Nage is just to ensure that the necessary
services are available. Uh, so there is current work going
on right now. We do expect conclusion on this within
the next couple of weeks, and that is just to
confirm that available municipal water and sanitary sewer capacity will
be available to both those sites. So as I had
said, uh, both these proponents are actively working to satisfy
those two requirements. And should they be satisfied before council
would enact the bylaw on September 8th. Staff can bring
forward a revised bylaw, removing those holy needs requirements, and
provide that update to council at that time so that
the most up - to - date and relevant bylaw
is enacted at time of approval. Uh, The Elimination of
that Holding H provision would also support a faster approval
time rhyme, as it would remove the need for a
future staff report, as well as Council Enactment of a
holding H bylaw to lift the holding age bylaw. So
the Staff Report does contain our policy review. I'm not
going to go through it in a lot of detail,
uh, but we have reviewed provincial policy statement Niagara Scarpman
Plan, The Great County Plan, and the Town of Blue
Mountains official plan. We do note that the people care
site is already designated institutional, so there is no need
for any official plan amendment. Uh, the key planning considerations
in this review, uh, mostly deal with the compatibility with
the Craig Leaf context. The proposed three - story 12
- metre building is a modest increase over the general
11 - metre framework that otherwise applies to the remainder
of the recreational resort area. Uh, and in this case
as well, Stafford satisfied that the institutional designation, uh, the
building's community serving, uh, function, the ability to address landscaping
buffering and building placement through site plan review, do provide
an appropriate basis to support this zoning bylaw amendment at
this time. For the McPherson proposal. Um, one of the
key questions that we looked at was whether block 238
should be assessed as an isolated parcel, or whether it
should be considered as part of the home farm broader
subdivision lands. Uh, in the report, you will find that
Staff's opinion is that it should be considered, uh, that
block 238 should be considered within the larger home farm
land base. Uh, this is because the original OLT decisions
that implemented this development did anticipate development on these lands.
However, no formal approvals were provided at that time. However,
that block does remain part of the draft approved subdivision
framework and also relies on the broader development for roads,
servicing, stormwater, parks, trails, and open space. Staff also did
a fresh calculation on the density. Uh, the home farm
lands can accommodate up to 438 units through those calculations.
Uh, so the original home farm development consists of 215
units. So those units are already approved. Uh, the rental
housing would increase, or provide an additional 112 units for
a total of 327. And it is noted that home
farm does own some additional future development lands, particularly down
below the Ridge, um, that haven't been under any consideration,
uh, at this time. Uh, we did have a Public
Meeting on June 30th. Generally, it was positive reception, uh,
to this proposal. Uh, there was a general acknowledgement for
the need for both rental housing and long - term
capacity within the town. Uh, a lot of questions and
comments that came forward. We're focused on parking snow storage
drainage access connectivity landscaping and other built form considerations. Uh,
there's questions with regarding the rental housing operation and also
with regards to the overall building height of the long
- term care. Uh, so we have reviewed these matters.
Uh, and we still continue to review a number of
these matters through our site plan review process. Um, these
on site considerations are generally implementation matters. Um, particularly with,
uh, with regards to servicing and required onsite work to
implement the project, uh, so these are continuing to be
reviewed through our active site plan approval, um, submission. I
can report at this time that that site plan application
has been submitted and it has already completed its first
round of review. Uh, so there is some additional information
that has been requested by Town Staff as well as
outside agencies. Uh, the primary issue still revolve around the
water and sanitary capacity. And again, uh, those will be
reviewed in the next couple of weeks and hopefully it
can be concluded. Um, and as well, next steps after
that, after the site plan would be a site plan
agreement to be entered into to identify the actual works
that are going to occur on those sites. Uh, and
from that agreement, authorization will be available for that development
to proceed to building permit and to allow construction to
begin. Uh, so in summary, uh, we are of the
opinion that these two coordinate applications are appropriate. They represent
sound lane use planning and advance important community objectives related
to long - term care. Rental housing supply, uh, and
general development for the, um, Craig Leaf community. So staff
do recommend that committee support this proposal in bylaw amendment
for both people care as well as the McPherson home
farm rental housing sites, subject to the site - specific
provisions and holding conditions that have been identified in the
Staff Report. I'm happy to answer any questions that committee
may have. Thank you very much, Mr. Posma. Our manager
POSMA and questions, okay, first of all, it looks like
the Deputy Mayor. Thank you, Madam Chair. Through Councillor Hope
as chair, Sean, just to be clear on section, paragraph
two of the recommended motion. Site - specific exceptions to
building height, loading space retaining, all that applies to holding
H54 symbol. It permits only limited site work until you're
satisfied of the town satisfied. So the limited scope of
work is prescriptive, I would assume, until, um, those improvements
have been addressed and have been approved by, uh, satisfaction
of the town. Can you just extrapolate that a little
bit for me. Yes, certainly. So, uh, The Holy Nate
symbol would not allow any construction of the new buildings
to occur until such time as those holding age conditions
are met. Uh, so those two conditions were one, confirmation
of available water and sewer capacity. And number two was
that temporary road access agreement in order to access that
site. Uh, so those two things are currently under review
and hopefully should be wrapped up shortly. Uh, if they
aren't, uh, the holding H is recommended to be included
as part of the bylaw. And it would allow only
limited site works to occur. So this would be things
like rough grading, uh, installation of, uh, some of the
pre - servicing. So underground pipes, curbs load lift of
asphalt. Some of those preparation works in order to get
the site ready for construction, uh, by no building permits
would be available until that holding H is those conditions
are met in a bylaw is lifted to lift that
holding H symbol. Just a quick follow up. And thank
you. Thank you. Thank you to the chair for that.
Um, and the confidence of Town Staffing discussions on the
boots on the ground level. Do we see this based
on seasonality. Being an issue or do we see it
coming to fruition enough in a very near future. Like
the conditions that we're talking about. Like I said, the
proponents in the town are working quite quickly to try
to satisfy these conditions. And if they can be satisfied
before September 8th, when this, you know, potentially a bylaw
could be, um, enacted by council. Uh, we would update
council at that time whether they were, uh, they were
completed. But in terms of time frame, yes. Things are
pointing in the direction that these could be completed. Thank
you. Thank you. Uh, on to Councillor Ardell. Thank you,
Madam Chair. And just we've talked a lot about water
and sewer, so, um, I know here that, uh, they
were given written confirmation that was provided by the town.
And the, oh my goodness, what's going on. Here? And
so how long will that finalise then? That's my basic
question. When can we get this finalised, the water and
sewer? Because it's been the capacity has been allocated to
them, but any works requiring, um, provided such capacity or
secured through the appropriate approvals. So what other approvals are
we waiting for? Go ahead, manager Cosma. Guys, thank you.
So, uh, there's two components to this. One is plant
capacity and available for the plant to actually receive those
flows. Uh, so that piece has been confirmed. The second
piece though is the conveyance system. So how do you
actually get the water from the plant to the site
and the sanitary from the site back to the sewage
treatment plant? So it's that second part that's currently under
review right now with the engineers and we're anticipating results
in the next couple of weeks. Uh, so that's a
critical piece that we do need to make sure, uh,
is, is in place in order to be able to
service, properly service both of these, uh, developments. Uh, and
then to the second part of your question, the remaining
pieces is the site plan approval. So this is the
technical engineering design to ensure that these lands can accommodate
the design that's being proposed for both of these report
before you today is only dealing with the zoning framework.
So establishing the land uses and some of the parameters
that's related to it, but it's the site plan stage
that's still active, still under review, uh, needs to be
completed. Oh, so just to follow up to that then.
So would they go over the ridge and then down
or would they go out to 19. To Councillor Ardell.
The servicing strategy is to bring both the water, uh,
and the sanitary to the connections available on Grey Road
19. Thank you. Thank you Council Sardell. Now any further
questions. Well, Councillor Maxwell, go ahead. Thanks. Chair.
Sean, just asking something about where Councillor, Ardell, was asking
about water allegations. I would assume that the fire department
is prioritized above most people, most anything in order to
obtain water, correct? It would be both, uh, obviously both
sites will ensure that there's adequate water supply to service
the sites as well as all the other related, uh,
works such as firefighting and all the other water requirements
that would be necessary. But, um, both sites would have
to be met. As it stands right now, the fire
hall commitments are already there. They're already recognised. So that's
not being proposed to be taken away. Uh, the modelling
work that's being done now is to make sure that
in addition to the fire hall and everything else that's
existing, uh, The long - term care home and the
rental housing site can both be serviced. Okay. Thank you.
Um, we have the motion on the screen. Are there
any other questions. Printed? Thank you very much. And seconded
by, sorry, now I understand why you watch me. Thank
you. Um, if you could please read out the motion,
um, Madam Deputy? Sure thing, Madam Chair. That Council receive
Staff Report PBS 26. 063 entitled recommendation report application for
zoning by law amendment, people care long - term care
and McPherson rentalhous. And that Council and Actazoning bylaw amendment
for the people care long - term care lands that
reazones the subject lands from development de - zone to
the institutional i - 161 - H54 zone provides site
- specific exemptions to the building height, loading space, retaining
wall, road frontage, and barrier - free parking requirements and
applies the holding H. 5. 4 symbol that permits only
limited site works to incur until such time as any
necessary servicing and or road access improvements have been addressed
to the satisfaction of the town. And that council enact
is owning bylaw amendment for the McPherson slash home farm
rental housing lands that rezones the subject lands from the
development D zone to the residential R2 - 162 -
H55 and open space OS zones, provide sites - specific
exemptions to recognise purpose - built rental housing, total unit
counts, minimum parking and road frontage requirements, and applies the
holding H. 5. 5 symbol that permits only limited site
works to occur until such time has any necessary servicing
and or road access improvements have been addressed to the
satisfaction of the town. Thank you. That's been moved in
seconded. I see no further comments, so let's call the
vote, please. Madam Deputy Clerk. That vote is open.
My assist. Uh, affirmative police. Thank you. That vote is
closed. Thank you. The motion is carried with all members
of the committee present. We're on to the last Staff
Report of this section, B. 9. 4. Information report, request
for minister, zoning order, residential workforce slash rental housing 796.
060 grey road 19 PBS - 0. 26. 066, and
that is manager P. S. well. Take it away, thank
you. As think about it, uh, so once again, my
name is Sean Postwell. I am the manager of Community
Planning here with the Town of Blue Mountains, and I
will be giving a brief overview on this report. Uh,
so this report is with regards to a request for
Council Support of a minister zoning order, or MZO for
lands municipally known as 796. 060 grey road 19. Uh,
the report is provided for information and direction on process.
Uh, right now it does not request a decision today
on whether Council supports or not support the MZO. It
is really just set up what the next steps are
and to receive council direction. Uh, the purpose of this
report really is to provide an outline of the request
that's been received, summarized Council's previous direction, provide an update
on the engagement, uh, that has been completed so far
with Nada Osaga Valley Conservation Authority. Identify matters requiring further
review and to present five options for Council's consideration in
terms of being able to move forward. Um, it's already
been described. This subject property is about 9. 95 hectares
in area. It's located in Craig Leith immediately south of
the cross winds Boulevard Great Road 19 intersection, just south
of Windfall. In the applicant is requesting Council Support for
an MZ O to permit a purpose - built rental
housing community intended to contribute to the supply of rental
and workforce housing serving the Blue Mountain Village area, as
well as the surrounding community. Uh, The Summitted Concept Plan
does show approximately 612 rental apartment units at a density
of 65 units per hectare. Uh, the proposal does include
apartment style buildings ranging from three stories along Grailroad 19,
stepping up to six stories further into the site. And
also anticipates some limited resident - serving commercial uses as
well as accessory uses. It is important to emphasize that
the current concept plan that's been submitted with this proposal
is illustrative only. Uh, if an MZO were issued, the
final layout building placement, site servicing, landscaping access, parking, uh,
grading and other detailed matters may change within the limits
of the MZO and would further be subject to subject
approvals. So Council had previously received a deputation on this
request back in November of 2025. It was at that
time that council directed staff to return with the Staff
Report regarding potential conditional support and to engage with the
NVCA before bringing that report forward. So this report is
really to address that last council direction. Uh, since that
time, the applicant has submitted a substantial package of technical
studies. This includes planning justification, uh, draft MZO, concept plans,
servicing stormwater studies, transportation, parking materials, environmental studies, housing archaeological
geotechnical and other reports and studies. Uh, so full details
on this application submission, including all these studies reports and
plans. They have been posted to the town website. Uh,
notice has been provided to the general public, uh, through
the project subscribers list. Um, so anyone that's been subscribed
to that, uh, webpage, uh, would have been received notice
of this report in the additional information that's available on
the website. Uh, at the same time, we have also
just circulated all the materials to all town internal departments
as well as external agencies so that they can begin
their, their review. I wanted to talk a little bit
in terms of, uh, The MZO itself in terms of
what it does and what it does not do. Uh,
so administer zoning order is a provincial zoning regulation made
by the Minister of Municipal Affairs and Housing under Section
47 of the Planning Act. So this is a zoning
or a provincial regulation. So I know the question had
come up earlier in terms of kind of municipality simply
rescind or eliminate an MZO. And the answer is, is
it can't, uh, because it's an issued provincial regulation, it
does require ministers approval to rescind that MZ O. However,
if the municipality, um, no longer supports that MZO or
wishes to have it rescinded, a request can be made
to the province, but the decision ultimately rests with the
province on that. If an MZO is issued, it could
establish site - specific development permissions, such as permitted uses,
uh, density, building heights, setbacks, as well as the environmental
protection areas. And an MZO would prevail over top oficial
plan policy and other zoning bylaw requirements. Uh, so an
MZ O can really accelerate the establishment of zoning permissions.
However, it is not an approval for construction. All right,
so even if an MZ O is issued, the project
will still require a number of downstream approvals. So things
such as applications for subdivision of LAN to actually, you
know, divide the lands up, uh, may be required site
plan approval, uh, including all the details and the technical
design. Uh, so these applications, some rest with the county,
some rest with the town, uh, but would still require
those local approvals after an MZ 0, um, would be
enacted. Uh, part of those processes as well include the
detailed engineering review. Any other agreements that may be required
serving agreement, uh, site plan agreements, things of that nature.
Plus any other applicable permits, uh, that may be required.
So these would include things like NVCA permits, uh, great
County Transportation permits, as well as your standard building permits.
Now the MZO decision, that ultimately rests with the province
of Ontario. So the municipality, uh, does not have the
authority to enact an MZO. That does rest ultimately with,
with the province. However, as part of the revised MZO
process, uh, municipal consultation, Public Consultation is now a requirement.
Uh, so if Council were to support or not support,
uh, the MZO, a Council Resolution would be required just
to inform the province in terms of the municipalities position
and would be taken under consideration in a provincial decision.
Now we have reached out to the province regarding sort
of some of the more specific details on the MZ
O process. And we're looking to hold meeting shortly on
that. Uh, and depending on council's direction today as well,
that'll help us inform some of the questions that we
will have for the province, um, sure, this application proceed
forward. With regards to the NVCA engagement, that was a
critical piece to Council's direction back in November. Uh, so
Town Staff has been working with the NVCA as well
as the county, the applicant, and as well as the
applicant technical teams. Uh, so there has been substantial work
that's been done now to deal with some of the
NBCA matters. Some of the environmental constraints on that site.
Uh, that primary focus of that work has been identifying
and refining wetland boundaries, natural hazard boundaries. In order to
establish a defined building envelope. Because the site does have
a number of constraints on it. I was really critical
to be able to complete that science on those lands
in order to be able to define those, uh, lot
development boundaries. Uh, The current submission does identify areas for
proposed environmental protection as well as those areas that are
available for development. I can report that based on the
technical discussions with the NVCA and the county and the
applicants team, uh, that those, uh, environmental and hazard boundaries,
as shown in the current materials, generally reflect the constraints
that were identified through that technical review. So those boundaries
have substantially been pinned down, uh, and agreed to. Although
these boundaries have not been signed off by the NBCA,
uh, we will be requesting their formal review and sign
off through our technical review process. And that's the normal,
uh, way to get those, that final confirmation. Uh, so
that confirmation will come with the review of all the
other technical reports and studies that have been provided. If
there are any outstanding environmental requirements, mitigation measures, permit requirements
or other changes, uh, they would be identified through that
circulation process. And we'll also be, uh, included as part
of a future staff report to this, uh, to this
council. Uh, so the Staff Report does identify some key
issues requiring further review. Uh, this includes the planning framework.
Just taking a look at the appropriateness of establishing these
permissions by way of MZO in advance of a future
secondary plan process. Uh, I'm not going to go through
all of these in great detail. They are all included
here, uh, on page six of the Staff Report, um,
but these are sort of the critical things that we'll
be evaluating as part of that, that first review. Uh,
obviously looking at, uh, compatibility, uh, and community character, environment,
natural hazards, uh, municipal infrastructure servicing transportation, connectivity, uh, and
as well, uh, reviewing some of the housing and community
benefit components. And a lot of this came out of
the Public Meeting as well, but just getting, uh, further
information on rental tenure, how the rental arrangements are going
to work. Workforce housing objectives, long - term affordability arrangements,
things of that nature. In terms of next steps, we
are looking to provide notice of application. Uh, that it
has been received. All the submission materials have been uploaded
to the town website. And we have initiated their development
review process. So all the materials have been circulated and
are currently under review. Uh, following this, we are looking,
uh, to confirm council's next steps, uh, in terms of
the available five options. I'll discuss in a second here.
Um, and that includes proceeding to a Public meeting collection
of final review comments, collection of Public Input. And then
ultimately preparing a recommendation report. Uh, so if we can
go to the next page, uh, just to outline the
five options that are available to Council. Uh, so option
one is essentially to proceed on an expedited review and
consultation schedule. Uh, so we have heard from the deputation
today that they are looking to try to get a
recommendation report within this term of council. It is a
very aggressive schedule to try to achieve that as we
have just received all the materials now. And, uh, we
don't know yet just what may come out of that
technical review of those, uh, those materials. However, having said
that, there are requirements for things like a Public Meeting
that could be expedited and information reports can follow after
that. Um, and, um, uh, but that really would look
at trying to prioritize this, uh, over any other project
within the town and in the planning department's workload, uh,
to be able to achieve some of these, uh, these
targets. Option two is to receive the request into defer
the Public Meeting to the incoming Council. So we could
receive the request and defer that, uh, Public meeting to
the next council. So it would be the next council
that would be here in the comments that come in
and be, and receive the information from the applicant and
as well receive the Public comments. Um, that would delay
the Public Meeting until likely December or perhaps early 2027
for the earliest Public Meeting Date with the next, uh,
next available council. Option three is to not support the
MZO request and to not proceed with a town led
public meeting. Uh, so this would communicate council's preferred process.
However, would not prevent the applicant from making a request
directly to the province. Uh, a resolution of Council providing
the reasons for this position would be requested and can
be forwarded to the province for further consideration. If an
MZO request is still submitted to the province for, for
consideration. Four is to proceed with a Public Meeting now,
likely within this term of council and to continue to
process, uh, this request for MZO through our normal planning
review timelines. Likely we could hold a Public Meeting with
this term of Council. However, recommendation report would likely come
early 2027 at its earliest just to be able to
follow our normal processing timelines. An option five, we've put
in here as well, uh, is to receive additional feedback
from council. If there is further direction to invite a
revised phase or more limited request, uh, obviously there's some,
um, there's a lot in the request that's being proposed
here. Uh, so option five does allow for some council
feedback at this time. Um, which we could then return
back to the applicant for consideration in terms of a
revised proposal. So that pretty much sums up my, my
report. Um, again, we're just hoping that this report provides
a clear understanding of the scope and significance of the
request before our four councils'consideration. Uh, and planning staff really
are seeking direction at this time from council and the
preferred option in order to advance the review of this
project. So that wraps up my presentation. I'd be happy
to answer any questions. Thank you very much, manager Postma.
I've got lots of the borders all lit up, but
I think we have to do an administrative. We have
to extend our working hours to, I'm going to suggest
till five o'clock. And if we're shorter on time, then
that's even better. So if I could place have a
motion, I'll work on that. Yes. Okay. So I, okay.
So I can proceed or, okay. So the first hand
that was that was. Cancer porter, but she, something that's
happened with my numbers. Cause it's now showing. Oh, okay.
So it's Councillor McKinley then. It's first. Okay. Excuse me.
Thank you, Madam Chair. It's through you to the clerks.
If we could go to the bottom of page seven,
I think that what is really, really, really important for
all of us that are here in the chambers and
those that are watching is the bottom paragraph that says
Council may consider any of the following options respecting the
timing and process for the MZO request. And it should
be bold and metallic and big letters. No decision on
support or non - support of the MZO is requested
through this information report. I think that's a very key
element to this. And it also is referred to again
in option one, which if we can just roll down
to option one, please. It says it again that this
option would not bind counsel to support the MZO. So
it gives us a measure to be able to carefully
move forward with a planning of Public meeting or Public
or us leading a Public meeting. I think it's a
great idea. We can get all the input from everyone
else involved. So I support that a hundred percent. Thank
you. Thank you. Then I see that Council Reporter is,
I'm sorry, excuse me, Madam Mayor, you're next. Thank you.
Through you the chair, I have some questions for Mr.
Posma in regards to the presentation that he's just made.
Um, so yes, of course, we are creatures of the
province. So the minister could decide to go ahead and,
um, carry on with NMZO without our participation. But we
can also provide conditions so we could, if I can
confirm with Mr. Posma then that we could, should we,
and I concur with the reading of Councillor McKinley, none
of this is actually asking us to bind ourselves to
a support of the MZO. But if we get through
the process, whenever that is, whatever that is, when the
information is in front of us, when we've heard the
Public comment, if we were to outline conditions in our
letter of support for the MZO, then the MZO, the
minister could then reflect those conditions in the MZO. And
then if those conditions were not met, would that then
null and void the MZO. So let's say the minister
hears there are some certain conditions that are important, like
retaining the vision and it not turning into, um, chalet
rentals, but that it stays true to the workforce housing
that's being proposed. Um, that's just an example. Then we
get down the road and something is not met in
the conditions. What happens then in the minister's office at
that point with the MZO. That's my question to Mr.
Prosmo. Go ahead. Um, as an excellent question, it really
depends on how the conditions are set up. Um, we
want to make sure first and foremost that the MZO
that's developed, uh, would be able to implement that proposed
development. Um, because it essentially reads similar as a zoning
bylaw, uh, in terms of how those lands are to
be developed. So things like boundaries can't shift and some
of the provisions can't shift. Uh, with regards to the
conditions themselves, yeah, they would be required to be met
before building permit would be, would be available. However, once
those conditions are met construction can begin. That MZO does
stay with those lands. However, once the construction is completed,
um, you can't have conditions that would retroactively try to
pull those permissions away. Um, so really the timing piece,
we have to meet sort of those, those stages where
either before the MZ always issued or before construction. Okay.
Thank you. May have a follow up. Go ahead. Uh,
thank you. Uh, that answers that provide some clarification. Thank
you very much. Um, I am on the same wavelength
as Councillor McKinley who is supporting option one. I would
very much like to hear what members of the Public
think at this point. There's been a phenomenal amount of
information that's been, that's been, um, provided by both the
proponent and the response of a report that's come through
staff since the last time they came forward to us.
And I think it was December 2025. We asked questions.
I heard answers today. Yes, there will be more questions
and more answers, but that's why I'm very interested in
the process of Option 1 is to get to that
next steps of questions and answers and input. Um, because
this is a private entity that is offering to meet
a community need, a desperate community need in our community.
They're not asking us to build this. They're not asking
us to put money into this. They're asking to walk
with us in terms of the process of enabling and
allowing this to happen. So I would not expect somebody
to have, I would not expect somebody to have absolutely
everything down on the dotted line at this point because
they're at risk. They're spending time and money preparing all
this documentation because they see the need in it as
much as we see the need in affordable housing for
workforce. So I would very much like to be able
to continue this process and this dialogue. And hear from
members of the Public hear more information from the proponents
hear more reflection from staff and to be able to
have a fulsome plate in front of us to make
a decision. So that's why I'm in favor of Option
1. Thank you. Thank you Madam Mayor. On to then
Council Reporter. Yes. Thank you. And through the chair. And
thank you very much, Mr. Postma for this. Staff Report.
So I'm undecided right now which option because I take
the thing they are asking us to spend money. The
infrastructure needs to be there. The infrastructure is not there.
I mean, it says it's further review, but there is
no, the infrastructure is not there to support 612 units.
Uh, hence I asked the question today, you know, what's
their skin in the game with front loading. So, um,
and I went to one of the meetings. Actually, it
was at the LE Shore and there was, um, maybe
five people there. That were the Public. I can, I
can even name who they were because there was that
few. I'm not sure. I would actually, and sitting on
the board member as a board member of MVCA, I
want to see what they have to say. Um, cause
this is, this is an interesting piece of land. And
I want to make sure what's built there is done
right. Um, and I have been, um, monitoring that because
I go to the board, I ask, you know, have
they have, has there been any discussions? Um, so, uh,
regarding NBCA. So that, so there's a number of things.
Because we get one public meeting, correct? Mr. Posma, right.
And this is big. And I don't want another campus
to care that, you know, people don't wake up one
day and figure out what's going on. And I said
that before when they were here, when they talked about
the infrastructure and sewer, I don't want people to kilometers
away realising their street's going to get ripped up because
they have to put a pipe down there. Because certainly
Bay Street didn't see it coming peel or Peel Street
South. Nobody saw that coming, even though they were very
supportive of the long - term care there. I would
like to have a Public Meeting where there's less questions
that still remain in this report. So the Public can
ask. More questions about other things. I don't want to
go and there's unknowns and the proponent is there still
doesn't know. That's what I'd like to see. It is
getting close to the end of term. Um, so, and
I'm not sure what the delays were. Because they were
here a long time ago, first time. Um, but I
would like them to come and be able to be
in more of a position to inform the Public. As
to what's going to happen. As opposed to the Public
asking them questions, which the report hasn't still been able
to answer. I'm not against it. I'm just thinking there
isn't just much transparency. From the proponent as I feel
there needs to be. This is a big ask. And
part of me that's driving this is, is this a
big infrastructure ask? And we've already talked about that extensively
about how much it's going to cost in debt. And
everybody pays. So, um, so I would actually, I want
to make sure some of these key issues are tidied
up. Um, if they, I want to know if they're
going to front load some of the servicing. I want
it to see what MBA has to say. So people
know what land is and isn't going to get built
on. And, um, the environmental concerns. Cause we do. We
have environment as well as housing in the strategic plan.
Um, I want to have a better idea. So that's
where I'm Coming from, not just a public meeting. Okay.
We'll arrange it. Get it over with. I think it
has to be very meaningful to the full - time
residents for a variety of reasons that have been said
today. So it's because in this sense, a lot of,
and I'll go back to the campus of care. A
lot of the visioning everything was down behind a closed
door and we all know it. Because it was advertised
on the presentation. It's already being done. This is an
opportunity to do this one right. Have everything open, transparent
questions us. So you and it's a way of managing
change as well. This is changed to potential, um, part
of the town. And people sometimes need to be taken
through the change, but through that process, they have questions
they want to have answered. And without, with the things
still being vague and the Staff reported a Public Meeting,
depending on when it's called, I don't think that's fair
to the Public. Especially as they may have to bankroll
some of the infrastructure. Thank you. Thank you, Council Reporter.
And onto the Depu Mayor. Thank you, Madam Chair, through
you. Uh, a couple of questions. One, has there on
the 612 units, we have to remember these are be
added to the tax role. And I'm not saying whether
it's going to go through or not. But, um, has
already been, um, requested discussion on development charges from the
proponent. Uh, this time, no, there have not been any
discussions on development charges. Uh, we do know that development
charge Act has changed substantially in the last little while.
Um, so there may be rebates or discounts, uh, based
on the rental housing tenure. Thank you. And then the
follow up question is I'm trying to be careful with
this because we need to hear from the public, um,
more than anybody on this, um, so. All the options
listed just for clarity purposes. Do not bind this council
or next council to support an MZO. You're looking to
take it to a public meeting. Is that there are
opportunities here. There's five different options, but the ones that,
um, would go to a Public meeting, none of them
buying. It's just, it's just having a public meeting for
clarity purposes. Yeah. So three of the options are to
move to a Public meeting. Uh, so that would be
the next step in this, in this process. Um, option
three does recognise not to support that MZO request and
do not move to a Public meeting. Um, so if
Council wants to take a position now in terms of
not supporting that MZO, uh, there's no need to sort
of continue on those, those next steps. And then option
five, was the consideration for any other, um, Council sort
of directed changes to the proposed plan, uh, prior to
sort of finalising it and moving to a Public meeting.
Okay. Thank you. Thank you. And on to Council Sardell.
Thank you, Madam Chair. I would like to see a
Public Meeting, but I would definitely like to hear from
NVCA as well. Being past chair of NVCA and sat
there for eight years. I have lots of environmental concerns
and different things. And we notice that on another property
close to there. So, you know, we were told we
couldn't do anything. So, um, I'm, I'm still, you know,
hoping that we won't have those concerns, but I really
would like to hear from NVCA. I really would. Um,
and then have it there. So I'm surprised they've been
dealing with this for a while, but sometimes the board
doesn't get to hear some of the things. I've learned
that from being there for eight years. Um, so that
they would just proceed. But I think in this case,
um, representative as Councillor Porter, I'm just wondering, are you
on bi - monthly meetings now? Or sorry, Madam Chair,
if I could ask that. Go ahead. If I could,
if you were on bi - monthly meetings or when's
your next meeting at MVCA. Next meeting is the end
of September. We have two meetings. Uh, we didn't meet
in July in September. And it wasn't. In the sense
it's been a considerable period of time since they were
here before. And I know I asked a board meetings
have they been in contact and it wasn't maybe I
would say until somewhat more recent. Right. Okay. To continue?
Yeah. So I'm just wondering, you know, they've had this
for a while. There's, you know, they do have planners
and I would just like to hear from their planners
because if they found something else or whatever, we need
that piece of the puzzle. First. And definitely we could
be going ahead with a Public meeting, but we really
need that. I would just not enjoy being on the
11th hour and go, Oh, well, we found something else.
And that's what really concerns me here. So, um, yeah,
I'm, you know, with the Deputy Mayor, we could proceed
to a Public Meeting. And I call it prices subdivision
still. Sorry. I'm old school. Um, but, um, and hear
what the, you know, get a Public Meeting. We need
to hear what the people down there want or see
or whatever. But we do need workplace housing as well.
It's, everybody needs it. Um, and maybe, you know, like
the way it's going to like mountain house is all
step back. And, you know, the way that was developed,
you know, you get some development like that. And you
wouldn't see it at prices subdivisions. So, you know, and
then it's a great fix for the municipality is a
great fix for everybody. I'm just concerned within VCA. Not
getting back to us. So those are my comments. So
thank you. And I see Mr. Posma's hands up. Thank
you. Go ahead, Mr. Postma. Yeah. I just wanted to
clarify sort of the position of the NVCA. I can
report that, uh, both the town, uh, the county, the
applicant and their team and the NVCA have done substantial
work right now to actually serve a. So the physical
stakes in the ground delineating, you know, the wetland features,
the natural hazard areas. The areas for environmental protection. So
a lot of that work has already been completed. We
don't receive formal sign off until a formal submission is
made. And that circulated for final comment. So, you know,
to try to get an NVCA formal sign off at
this point, uh, is likely not going to occur. It's
not until we go through the former circulation process, but
I can report that in principle the NVCA is satisfied
with the boundaries, uh, and a lot of the work
that's already been completed. Council. Did you? Um, yes, I'm
just trying to, okay. So it's a 9. 95 Hector's
in how many actors is there for wetlands, sorry. Was
it two? I saw it somewhere in here.
I just can't find that again. Um, yeah, I just,
as long as if it's been mapped out and surveyed
and they've given that in principle, do we have it
at writing. Do we need an MOU. At this stage,
it's really to refine those boundaries, right? It is to
do the science, to do the site visits, to actually
stake and do the survey work to confirm those boundaries.
Uh, so that work has been done. Um, it's some
of the mitigations from the compensation, uh, and if there's
anything else that may come out of the final site
plan as well, right in terms of, the opportunities to
square off things that may impact environmental protection areas, like
there's some flexibility. Uh, there's opportunities for compensation. So the
number of different factors that could be implemented before that
final design, but all of those would require formal sign
off as well as permits from Nawasaga before construction could
begin. So Madam Chair, just one more question to Mr.
Postman then. So price is subdivision was flooded many, many
times. Um, and we've all, and we did have a
lot of problems going way back. So that's been resolved.
So at the back of this property, is there that
much flooding back there or is it not as bad
as what price of subdivision went through. Go ahead, Mr.
Posma. Yeah, I don't have any of the technical details
in terms of the flooding constraints. I know it has
been evaluated. Price is subdivision is located. It's not directly
adjacent to this site. It is a slightly removed, uh,
but the flooding concerns definitely have been evaluated. Thank you.
Councillor Maxwell. Thanks, Madam Chair. Well, okay. So anyway, the
doubt that we need like workforce housing. I'm just trying
to understand this Public Meeting. When we say Public Meetings,
Sean, do we. Is it just the general neighbourhood that
we invite or is it, um, all the commenting agencies
and those that we have a duty to consult with.
Or do consultation with me. Uh, yeah, so there's, there's
a couple components to the Public Consultation. So the province
has their own notice requirements on as an ERO posting.
So it'll be posted there. Um, we also have Air
Town Notice policy as well that we would follow. Um,
so advertising in the, uh, Blue Mountains review, um, we
generally would do a circulation within, uh, 400 feet of
the property to adjacent landowners. Uh, as well, we do
the e - blast. So we get noticed out on
many, many different fronts. And again, we've got all information
posted to the website. So anybody that has any interests,
uh, all the information is there. They can subscribe, um,
to get regular updates, uh, so we will reach out
through those, those channels. Go ahead. Second question. Okay. Okay.
So I'll just get a question there. Sean, what makes
this property uniquely different than T's, please. And would we
be able to apply for an MZ O in her
own property. To the first question with regards to differences
from the T's police, um, I think the similarities in
terms of some of the natural hazards, it's definitely wet
in that general area. Um, they are separate properties, uh,
so they would have separate issues that, that would need
to be reviewed based on, you know, the sites themselves.
In terms of applying for an MZO on our own
lands, um, it's a good question. I've never considered that
one before, um, but the town does have multiple tools.
Right. Uh, Council can enact bylaws itself. Um, bylaws must
conform to the official plan, uh, but in MZ O
has applied for by the town. I wouldn't rule it
out. Well, I just, we just seem to have a
little bit difficulty doing something on T's, please. So that
might help us. That's all. Thank you. So before we
go to a second class, if you don't mind second
past, Madam Chair, I was just going to indicate a
motion. I like, no, no, I like to sweep. Yeah.
I'd like to speak, um, from my, for the first
pass. And then we'll, we'll look at a motion. I
know we have to think about time. So. As many
people in the room know we had, we had a
tough evening last night with the Public. There were some
very clear messages that were given. And that's what's resonating
with me right now. And I'm thinking that, uh, we've
got some really interesting, strong components. So we first of
all have the workforce housing, which of course the town
wants to be working with. We have very willing and
interested neighbours who want to, who want to work together,
which is something that should not be taken for granted.
But we have not much money. The town does not
have much money, uh, for this. So we've exhausted our
reserves. Uh, so as the third party of this whole,
uh, project, if we want to expedite it, we've got
to have help. We've got to have participation. I don't
see how we can be moving forward for 612 units.
And all that would be involved with the infrastructure without
participation from the proponent. So to my mind, I think
that has to be worked on first. And I think
that that's what the public wants us to do. We
before we spin the money before we move forward. Let's
make sure that we have the infrastructure capability. However, that
is delivered. So I'm interested in, and I want to
be, first of all, very encouraging, because I think the
opportunity here. But I think first of all, we need
to know how much is this going to cost. So
how much is it going to cost to connect to
the 612 units? How much it will be proponent be
willing to participate. And then from there, we get a
confirmation letter from NVCA. At the same time, that doesn't
stop, of course, uh, conversations going on with a proponent.
Um, so I would tend to be looking at option
five, which we invite a revised phased, um, not necessarily
limited request, but we have a different conversation than we've
had before. And I realised that there's a planning protocols.
And I don't know where this one fits in. But,
um, I do think that it's the only way that
we can move forward. Uh, and I do, I would
love to see Public Meeting, but I take Councillor Reporters
point, I think a couple of members here have said
we want to see what the proponent is looking to
do. We've learned that the hard way. So we'd really
like to see what, what, what they have in mind.
So these conversations, um, need to happen. I think before
we can move forward, even to a Public meeting. Because
the Public is going to want to know, how is
this going to be paid for. So I'm wondering how
does this suggestion fit into planning protocols. Through me too.
Manager Postma. Thank you, Madam Chair. In terms of our
planning protocols, MZ O's, there's less requirements than a traditional
planning approval or planning application. However, the problem does look
for, um, the municipalities direction and resolution on this matter
and does suggest things like public consultation should, should take
place. How that's done, uh, is up to Council in
terms of how they want to complete that, that process.
So to have an inform, an information meeting beforehand to
have a public meeting, these are all options that are
available to council. At a minimum, we would recommend a
Public meeting, but it can be built on from there.
Okay. I certainly didn't bring MZ Owen to my conversation.
I certainly think that the MZO should be something for
the new council. So whereas I'm concerned and I'm ZO
lines up with the limitations on a lame council in
any case. I don't think we should be making that
kind of call for the next council. Uh, what I
want to know is can we have these kinds of
conversations that we haven't had before with proponents? So how,
how, you know, we want to expedite this project. How
can you help us? Otherwise, we're going to be saving
for years to try and make this work, uh, because
we don't have the resources to do otherwise. So is
that the kind of conversation, I guess, to make it
more clear. Is that the kind of conversation that the
planning department would have with the proponent? And, uh, and
I have no problem with the Public Meeting, but let's
bring some meat to the Public Meeting. Let's bring information
about the plans and how, uh, what is required for
the infrastructure. So it means the town needs to say
how much this is going to cost as much as
it can. And at the same time, what kind of
participation can be expected from the proponent in the interests
of trying to move this forward as much as we
can. Thank you. Team Madam Chair, I do see two
potential options here. Uh, one is the standard Public meeting.
Uh, it does give an opportunity for the proponent to
come and present their materials, um, and, and, you know,
an overview of their project, the vision, all those components.
That's our normal Public Meeting process. Uh, but it kind
of puts counsel in Public on the spot to be
able to respond at, at that time, uh, second option
is to request, um, from the developer, perhaps a deputation
beforehand to provide some of that information, um, earlier on
in the process, either in conjunction with a Public meeting,
um, or ahead of Council deciding whether to proceed with
a Public meeting. Um, but all of those of course
come with their own timeframes and their own requirements. And
we'll proceed as Council Cease Fit. So that wasn't quite
an option. Then basically have the proponent prepare first bring
the information and then have the Public Meeting? Is that
where you were going? Yeah. So the two options. One
was just to go straight to a Public Meeting allowing
the proponent to present their materials and to receive Public
comment at the same time. Or option two was to
request that the applicant make a deputation beforehand allow the
materials to be presented. That informing stage to occur. Uh,
have the Public Meeting. Okay. Um, thank you. I know
we've got a list here, but I think the second
option is one of interest where we then have, um,
uh, we get the information through the deputation. We can
have the kind of exchange that we head today. Uh,
and then from there, we can then move on to
a deputation. But those are my thoughts onto my colleagues.
Um, uh, Councillor McKinley. Oh, yes, I'm sorry. I didn't
have my glasses on. CAO, go ahead. Yes, through the
chair. And just maybe some, uh, context as well. Cause
I think what we've been attempting to do through this
project as well is to apply or mirror as much
as we can as it relates to how any other
general application under the planning Act would be, uh, would
be handled. So I think when we look at, especially
what's available or the, the studies and the available information
that we already have publicly displays on our web portal
is, uh, I think we're getting pretty close as it
relates to what we generally expect from a proponent, um,
in terms of a complete application. I mean, that trigger
point to going to a Public meeting. But that might
be my question over to, may Mr. Postman can add
a little bit further to that to say based on
assessment of what's been submitted thus far in comparison to
any other application at the town that, you know, generally
speaking, we be in the place here where there is
at least enough information to go to that, uh, Public
meeting or if there would be a risks that Mr.
Postman may identify at this point in time. Go ahead,
Mr. Postman. Yeah. Just to add to that, um, I
would agree. Uh, in terms of the technical studies, uh,
the submission that's been made, it appears that this would
be the equivalent of a complete application on a similar,
you know, traditional planning application. So we do have all
the information through that traditional planning route, uh, the next
step would be to move to a Public meeting. Um,
so that would be the normal course of action. Okay.
Um, not. But I think injecting, um, somewhere along the
line and they're here today. What's the offer in terms
of helping us expedite the project together, uh, by assistance
financial assistance with, with the infrastructure. That's my, my comment.
And I actually, I think we're going to have to
extend this. Yeah. So let's extend to 515, maybe 530.
And if we end early. Is that OK with everyone
here? I'll move that. Okay. Thank you from the Depu
Mayer and I think second in a daisy council reporter's
hand. And so did you say 530? Yes, 530 please.
And the motion is that Council waves, the provisions of
the procedural bylaw to allow the meeting to continue beyond
the seven hour limit to 5 30 LPM. Moved by
the Depumier, seconded by Councillor Porter. Any further discussion. Okay.
Uh, let's call the boat, please. Vote is open.
The vote is close. Thank you. That motion is carried
7 - 0 with all committee members present. Now Councillor
McKinley. Returned. Is it okay there we go. Uh, yeah.
So thank you, Madam Chair. I was just, if I
put my hand up because it's getting on on the
day and we needed to get to a motion, I
was going to move to getting emotional on the floor.
But if the more discussion going to happen, then there'd
be more discussion. I just wanted to indicate that. We
need to get moving on this. Certainly. And thank you.
I think if we could, um, see what evolves for
a motion. Appreciate that we want to get this. We
want closure. Are you open for a motion or are
you since you would have a discussion? I'd like more
discussion. And then I'll come back to you for a
motion. How's that? Um, then I've got Madam Mayor. Thank
you. Um, I, well, when Councillor McKinley moves, I will
second the motion for option number one. Um, my question
through the chair, um, Mr. Postma or, or the CAO.
But, um, is if we proceed to Public Meeting, the
proponents have been sitting here all day listening to all
of this input and all of this questions. They will
make a presentation at the Public Meeting. It is up
to their prerogative to be able to answer as many
questions as early in the game as possible. So is
there anything preventing them from doing that? I don't see
the point of waiting for it to come back in
another deputation than go to Public Meeting when they're hearing
the concerns. They're hearing the questions. They're hearing the comments.
They're hearing the support. They're hearing everything. Leave it up
to them to be responsible to bring those answers forward
in the Public Meeting. Is there anything preventing them through
the chair to Mr. Potsma from doing that. Uh, the
preventing them from, from doing that, no. Um, it's actually
an expectation that we put on applicants that they do
provide their vision, uh, and they present their, their proposals
in great detail to the public and to council. Thank
you. And one follow - up, please. Go ahead. Um,
then also at Public Meeting, um, in the, when we've
had other public meetings following the process, if between now
and that Public meeting, the MVCA puts a letter and
confirms what you've shared with us verbally, we can hear
that at the Public Meeting as well. The agencies, will
they make a presentation or will they submit? Cause I
know usually we hear these agencies have responded with X.
Thank you. Uh, yeah. So once a Public meeting is
confirmed, we do circulate notice. And we do request comments
ahead of time of that Public Meeting. Comments can come
in at or after the Public Meaning as well. Uh,
however, definitely with the Nautilus Saga Valley Conservation Authority. It's
will be working with them to try to get those
comments in time for that meeting. Thank you Madam Mayor
onto Kill Supporter. Yes. Thank you. And through the chair,
I just really want to go through a few logistics
here. So the next council meeting is September 8th. I'll
just differ to the Deputy Clerk. And the last Council
meeting of this term is October 13th. October 19th. 19th.
Okay. If you have a Public Meeting, you're required to
give notice of 20 days. 20 days won't start till
after the September 8th. And that depends how fast it
gets out. Do you really think logically and given the
timeframe that a report has to be in to the
clerk's office in advance of an agenda release. Logistically, just
looking at the math, can it be done? Because I
don't think so. Staff members would like to answer that.
Thank you. I can take a stab at that one
because we have a quick, sorry. We have looked quite
closely at the calendar in terms of what it is
that we can achieve, uh, with our notice requirements. Uh,
it is extremely tight. And it would mean essentially that
the application as submitted is perfect and ready to go.
Uh, however, depending on the scale and the number of
issues or concerns or comments that we receive back on
that, um, depending on how long it takes to address
those, we'll obviously add to that, uh, to that timeline.
Um, and really we don't know what those comments are
going to be until after, uh, after we receive all
the comments through that, uh, Public Meeting Notice. Okay. Thank
you very much. Um, just like to have a follow
- up. It appears the last Council Meeting is October
13th. Yes. Which is you've got five weeks from the
next Council meeting five weeks and you have 20 days
to get public notice. I don't think you can do
it and get it out and get all the questions
asked. And it's, and I, um, it's too tight. It's
a shame the proponent come earlier. Thank you. Okay. I
just want to confirm I'm hearing from my colleagues that
October 13th is the day, the last date before the
election. And, um, and we're hearing from the Deputy Clerk,
it's the 19th. So just confirming that it's, sorry, what
was it? It used at October 16th. 13th. It's not
on our calendar for the 19th. 19th is empty. Is.
The 11th. 12th. So we've deposed the. Time.
My apologies, this, what I am looking at is incorrect.
Okay. So October 13th then. So to Councillor Porter's point,
there's even less time. Okay. Just to be clear, there's
five weeks. To be clear. Yes. And you require 20
days to release the Public Notice. 20 days. Five weeks.
Is 35 days. So the, just wondering, um, nothing would
stop the proponent from doing another deputation. No, I'm just
saying you hold a Public meeting by timing the notices
get out after September 8th Council meeting, which is 20
days. Yes. Then minus the time for the next council
meeting, you have 15 days to hold the Public Meeting,
do the poor, get it on the agenda. Right. So
the Public Meeting may be certainly a problem. Um, but
if the proponent wishes to communicate with Council, they can
always do that through deputation. Just want to make that
clear. Okay. The Depumir. Madam Clerks on the line. No,
The Clerk Clerk. Oh. Madam Clerk. Oh, yes. Oh, go
ahead, Madam Clerk. Madam Clerk in the office. Yeah. In
the office. You can hear me. Okay. Yes. Great. Uh,
thank you through you, Madam Chair. I thought I would
chime in, um, to the discussion if, okay. I'm just
looking at the calendar. And yes, uh, they're the meeting
date of October the 19th Council meeting date was adjusted
to the 13th because it fell within the voting period.
So, uh, that the Deputy Clear kid, uh, correctly corrected
that date. And with respect to notice, so any recommendations
made today will be considered by council at the September
8th Council meeting. So the notice policy does provide that
21 days notices required of a Public meeting. So the
next Public Meeting, following September the 8th, um, is September
the 29th. So that is 21 days from the eighth.
So if, if today the Committee of the whole, um,
recommended that Public Meeting Beheld, I'm certain that the, uh,
planning department would have the notice ready to go. And
as soon as if council endorsed that on the eighth
of September, that notice would be released to the Public
on the eighth of September. Uh, thus providing the 21
days notice. And the Public Meeting could be held. Again,
this is all with Council's approval. I just want to
provide the information. Um, so the 21 days notice could
be achieved for a September 29th Public Meeting. Following that
there would have to be some grace because the next
committee of the whole cycle falls the very following week.
So there would have to be, um, concessions made there
as to whether Council, uh, would allow the planning department
to provide their follow - up staff report to that
Public meeting, um, on the revised agenda. I can answer
any further questions if you'd like. Thank you. I think
the next question is probably for the planning department. Can
you handle that schedule if it were set on September
the 28th or 29th. It's a special meeting. We're set
then. How would you manage that? Thank you. Uh, I'll
be first to admit that it's a very, very aggressive
schedule. Um, I know what the experience that we've had
with even the long - term care home and the
McPherson Project, which we have expedited as quickly as possible.
Um, you know, it's still taking us four to five
months to get through, you know, to the point where
we are today. Uh, so trying to have all the
cards fall exactly in place, uh, on the day is
it's not impossible, but it's the closest thing. Too. Well,
thank you. I'm going to continue with the thoughts from
other members of the committee. So Defumir, you're up next.
Thank you, Madam Chair. Um, going to Public Meeting is
paramount to me because number one, the town keeps on
turning, who's ever read these seven seats. It doesn't matter.
The budget still goes Operation still go. Planning still goes
everything still goes on. So even the Public Meeting and
even we might hear the Public Meeting 200 people saying
this is the worst idea in the history of the
world. It's easy to make a decision. It may be
more information is needed, maybe more, um, investigations. It may
be more, um, input or consultation with the development team.
But I see nothing wrong with going to Public Meeting
because questions may arise from that Public Committee. That's the
whole point of having Public Meeting is not to be
prescriptive ahead of time is to get the input from
the meeting saying, I'm the neighbour. I'm worried about flooding.
I'm worried about the SNC or I think it's a
great idea because, you know, my kids work at Foodland
and they could, they could live here. And, you know,
just drive 15 minutes to work. So having a public
meeting, um, depending, I'm not worried about the timing because
the Poeting of the Public meetings to get the Public
comments. And the questions. And then you guys take them
like we do every Public meeting circulate them and you
might say, listen, we got a lot of concerns here
or a lot of people think this is a great
idea, but that's the whole point of a Public Meeting.
Not what we can think of, what the Public wants
to tell us. So I'm all for going to the
Public Meeting. And if it, you know, in the timelines
may be tight. And it may be pushed into the
next Council. I don't know. But having a Public meeting
without any bind you in MZ O whatsoever, just getting
the input on people, whether they think that's a good
idea. That's the most democratic thing I could think of.
And that's the most, um, community - based thing I
can think of. So I'd be in favor of scheduling
the Public Meeting going ahead and see what people think
and what questions they want answered to bring back in
as part of the follow - up report. Is that
option one then you can? That's an option one. That's
option one I was thinking of. Okay. Thank you very
much. Uh, and then I see Councillor Maxwell. So I'm
getting ready for a motion after cancelar Maxwell. Thank you.
Thank you. And yes, I'm all for Public Meeting. Um,
I just like to understand something Mr. Poesmo. So when.
How many comedy agencies and organisations and studies will be
involved or have made available. To the Public. So they
can actually have a look at this and say, Oh,
I didn't know that. Oh, I'm for that. Oh, I
didn't know that. Like, I think all the information has
to be on the table on every site, whether it's
the people who want to build or whether the agencies,
the Public. So we can have an honest look at
the whole thing. And the Deputy Mayor said so that
everybody can make, have an opinion. With a good or
bad. That's the way it works. Okay. Thank you very
much Councillor Maxwell. So then, um, Councillor McKinley has expressed
a wish for a motion. Madam Chair, I would like
to move option one. Thank you. Okay. Option one. So
that would read then direct Star. So it's option one
is proceed on an expedited review in consultation schedule. Okay.
So we're not going to repeat it. So is there
a seconder? I think Madam Mayor, you yes, I indicated
that I would second. Yes. Madam Mayor did indicate that.
I think we should read out the option. Um, I
will direct staff to proceed with an Accelerated review scheduled
a special Public Meeting at the earlyest available opportunity. And
if necessary schedule special committee of the whole and or
council meetings to accommodate the applicant's requested timelines. Staff would
complete circulation in return with a recommendation report and intend
on completing this process before the end of this term
of council. This option would not bind council to support
the MZO. That's what option one reads. Um, comments on
the motion. No comments. Um, I have a comment on
the motion. I'm wondering if, um. As part of Staff's
recommendation report that they provide some kind of estimate or
a breakdown of what the infrastructure requirements would be. Uh,
and, and if possible, the costs. Or, you know, roughly
the costs as part of the recommendation report. I don't
think it has to be enshrined in the motion. Is
the mover okay with that addition. It's not in the
motion. So I guess I'm, I guess I'm just suggesting
it. I'm sorry. I'm, I'm, I'm trying to follow what
you're making an amendment to this motion? No, I'm not
doing anything like that. I'm just saying as without putting
it into the motion, I'm just adding the request that
the recommendation report from staff include some kind of estimate
of what needs, what is required from an infrastructure perspective
to, to create the subdivision or of the development. And
if we could get an approximate cost. I would post
that to staff if that's. OCL Smith. Oh, go ahead.
Yes. Thank you, CO Smith. Through the chair. I can
take a crack at the response and then maybe lean
on Mr. Postman to provide any further information. But I
think really, you know, with going into the Public meeting,
I mean, generally when we would do is that we
compile all the comments. And we'd also, and when it
comes to servicing analysis, that's really fundamental to the, to
the recommendation report that Staff ultimately do bring. We do
know when it comes to, and this is where we're
going to need to say for further understand as it
relates to conditions that could be applied to any MZO
is to know, you know, where are the bounds to
it? And to say, I think through that recommendation report,
there would always be a section pertain to water and
sanitary capacity alongside, uh, any constraints that the municipality may
have. And we would need to look at what the
options exist as what. And one of them could be
saying that it may be premature as it relates to
the analysis based on what those constraints are. Or it
could say that there are some further works that are
required, but that's why we have a condition related to,
um, certain works being completed until such a time in
which permits could be issued or anything of that nature.
But perhaps Mr. Postman can, can provide a little bit
more, more detail to that. Now, I think that essentially
covers it. It's really, um. Yeah, actually, I don't have
anything else to add. Sorry, I didn't hear you. I'm
sorry. I didn't have anything else to have. Thank you.
Selemith provided. Okay. Thank you. Uh, and I see that
the premiere has a santa through the chair, just a
question. We already have a scheduled Public Meeting Set in
our calendars for the 29th. So are you anticipating doing
another meeting or incorporating that day? Because there's a lot
luck going on with us trying to get information done.
And cow meetings and that. So we already do have
one. Is that the date you were shooting for? For
clarity. Yes. That is correct. September 29th. Okay. And can
I just have a follow - up question of something
that you started? To the, this is to, through the
chair to the CAO. CAO, we have 11 zones of
DC availability. Um, so I guess my question would be,
even if, uh, some of this in a secondary plan,
but it's within the zone. I believe it's in the
Craig Leith area boundary. Still, even though it's a secondary
plan, it's still within one of our zones, correct? Through
the chair, that's correct. Thank you. Uh, Councillor Porter. Yes.
Through the chair, just building on what the Deputy Mayor
said, I don't really feel an option one. We need
to say if necessary schedule, special meetings. No. I can't.
And if that remains, I will not vote for this.
There is set dates and timelines. I'm just not going
to have something else. Just pop up. Option one is
for Town Clerk has confirmed it can be held on
that day. So I think it's redundant to have that.
Okay. Um, so then, um, so the motion itself just
refers to option one. And so the gym one says,
if necessary schedule is special committee of the whole and
our council meetings. Okay. So you want that removed? I
want it removed because it's not necessary. All right. Uh,
Councillor McKinley, you're the mover. Do you agree to that?
If everything is lined up fine. I'm sure that was
just intentionally indentated whenever the report was written and processed.
So having not known this being the second day back
from the summer break. I'm sure that was just a
clerical for administrative addition, correct? I'm just asking that quickly
through you, Madam Chair, to the staff. Microphone. Oh.
There we go. Okay. Uh. Yeah, no, that was essentially
just a placeholder in case we needed that flexibility. Then
that being said, Madam Chair, yes, I'm fine to remove
that. Strike that small portion as it was just a
placeholder. So. I'm just wondering not to take any more
time, but if we're going to be winnowing things down,
direct Staff to proceed with an Accelerated review, schedule a
special, uh, schedule Public Meeting for September 29th.
To accommodate the applicant's requested timelines. In other words, take
out that whole reference. That's fine with me. Better mayor.
Do you understand? Secondary, it says if necessary. So it
doesn't say that it's required. So I actually don't see
a problem with the wording the way that it's worded.
And we've heard that the process is quite possible to
do within the normal timeframe. Great. It was just, if
necessary. And it's specifically says that. So a secondary, you
want to keep the current wording. Yes. Okay. All right.
So the motion reads, um, the official motion, I read
out the entire option one, but the motion itself moved
by Councillor McKinley seconded by, um, Mayor Makrosoft that Council
received Staff Report PBS 0. 2, 6. 066 entitled Information
Report, Request for Minister Zoning Order, residential workforce slash rental
housing 796 060 grey road 19. And that Council Direct
Staff to proceed with option one as identified in planning
staff report PBS 0. 26. 066. So the motion stands,
uh, with Councillor McKinley in The Mayor. And I see
that the comments can't supporter. Yes. I have two comments.
Um, one is so the wording stands that special meetings
can be convened. Cause that's what option one says as
identified in the report. Yeah. That's, that's how, that's how
the mover, well, I don't know where the mover. The
seconder is not willing to change. Okay. So I asked
him, I also heard Madam Clerk say that it made
the report may need to go on a revised agenda.
So what I want to see when it's a revised
agenda, the Public get less notice to provide written comments
which are available after a Public Meeting. Which means they
get it on Thursday, but legally they're not allowed to
submit correspondence or a reputation or anything that's written. So
I'd like that waved. So that they can submit some.
Yes. Thank you. Go ahead. Start creating all that. Okay.
Um, Clerk in the office. Go ahead, Ms. Giles. And
my apologies, uh. Thank you, Madam Chair. I thought that
was directed at me. Sorry for jumping in. So yes,
the Public does have an opportunity to provide correspondence in
response. Um, Council Reporter is correct in that those correspondences
would not be included on a revised agenda, but keep
in mind that correspondence or comments in response to a
Public Meeting, the comments are to be made at the
Public Meeting. All of the comments are to be attached
to that follow - up staff report for Council's consideration.
So through the chair, I accept that, but it's always,
you can always submit a written comment. And the people,
if it's on the revised agenda, they would not be
able to provide a written comment potentially in time. I,
correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't see that
it's ever in anywhere that the Public comment can't be
submitted as correspondence to be put on the agenda. Clerk
just says it has to be written and not verbal.
Clerk Drows, what are your comments on that. Thank you.
Um, Madam Chair. So yes, the correspondent Public comments cannot
be made. That's correct. Um, verbal comments cannot be made
in response to a Public Meeting Notice. But correspondence can
be submitted. Now keep in mind the follow - up
Staff Report, if planning is able to achieve meeting that
October 6th Committee of the Whole Meeting, there is also
an opportunity to provide the comments to the October 13th
Council meeting when the final decision is made by, by
Council, again, if we're able to meet that October 6th
Committee of the Whole meeting. So the follow - up,
to be clear, correspondences, Deputations, et cetera, can be submitted,
but, um, it would be late for the October 6th
Committee of the Whole, but there is always the October
13th Council meeting. So just to follow up through the
chair regarding correspondence. So if correspondences submitted and it's on
the Council agenda and it's related to the Public Meeting,
can it be pulled for discussion? You're making the point
that it can be. Excuse me through the chair. I'm
asking in advance. Oh, I'm sorry clerk Charles. Thank you.
Thank you. So in response to the question, the correspondence,
the decision needs to be made through the consideration of
the staff report. So if there are corresponden to the
agenda regarding the Public Meeting, uh, response to the Public
Meeting Notice and the follow - up Staff Report, the
decision is made. When council discusses the Staff Report. Now
the correspondences can be pulled and discussed, but there'd be
no decision made and response to those. They would basically
be received for information. Through the chair, that's fine. I
just wanted to know if they could be pulled for
discussion. Thank you. Okay. Thank you. So we have a
motion on the floor. It's been moved in seconded. I
don't see any hands for any further discussion. So shall
we call the boat, please? My vote is open.
And that boat is closed. Thank you. That motion is
carried seven nothing with all members of the committee. Here.
Um, now I think we, um, are at the end
of our section with the exception of Public Comet. And
we hands up to if there needs to be public
comment anybody wants to make a public comment at this
point. Anything received, Madam Deputy Clerk? No, and I confirm
that Mr. Lampre Stoffer has confirmed he does not want
to provide anymore. Right. Okay. Thank you. So going once,
and nobody wishes to speak confirming that going twice, going
thrice. So I'm going to close Public comment and turn
the agenda over to Madam Mayor. Thank you very much,
Councillor Hope. So item C, new and unfinished business. We
do not have any committee of Council Reports to entertain
it. Item C2 is a call for any notices of
motion. Are there any notices in motion? Very, very quick.
I've already set them into the clerk. Okay. Uh, number
one Public Safety and Public Trails. Number two, the use
of soft landscaping within current and feature infrastructure projects to
assist and reconstructing neighbourhood character and identity. Number three, regular
inspections and maintenance of roads, bridges, and culverts to improve
Public Safety, snow, assault management. The overall infrastructure preservation. And
wildlife management within rural and urban areas. Okay. Thank you.
Council Reporter, did you have your Andres? Yes. I just
have a notice of motion regarding Bay Street Reconstruction. I'll
submit it on Thursday. Okay. Thank you. Anyone else. Okay.
We will continue on then. And we do not have
any items added to the agenda. Our next meeting dates.
The next Public Meeting is September 1st. The next Council
meeting is September 8th. And then Madam Deputy published in
the Agenda, it refers to the 28th and 29th. But
actually our next committee, The Whole Cycle is September 14th
and 15th, correct? Yeah, we do have, yeah. Metropologist. Okay.
So September 14th is the next committee. The whole cycle
and September 15th, which means that the emotion to adjourn,
it's recommended that this committee, the whole does now adjourn
at 529 p. m. to meet again on September 15th,
2026 Town Hall Council Chambers in virtually or at the
call of the chair. So move, Madam Chair. Thank you.
Move by Councillor McKinley. Secondary by Council Saradell. Any discussion
on a German, seeing none, Madame Deputy Clerk, please call
that vote. No vote is open. Please. You. Can't, sir.
McKinley. Affirmative. Thank you cancel reporter. Oh, there it goes.
My boa. Is closed. And that motion is carried 7
- 0. Thank you very much, everyone.