[This transcript was generated automatically from audio using AI and hasn't been reviewed by a person -- it can contain mistakes, including plausible-sounding sentences that were never actually said. Treat it as a starting point, not a verbatim record.]

[0:18] Good evening, and welcome to the regularly scheduled cloth and city council meeting of Tuesday, April 2nd. Please stand for the pledge of allegiance and remain standing for the invocation this evening done by Mayor Proton Met Albert.
[0:33] I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the Republic for which it stands.
[0:41] One nation under God, and he did this alone with liberty and justice for our own.
[0:48] It's pray.
[0:50] Dear God, we are grateful for the blessing we experience in our land.
[0:54] We ask for your continued hand of protection over our police and fire responders.
[1:00] We thank you for the wisdom that you give and we ask that you would give it even this evening.
[1:05] We ask for your continued hand of flourishing in our community in Jesus' name.
[1:18] Amen.
[1:18] Rolls, hall, please.
[1:21] May your will.
[1:22] Here.
[1:24] Councilmember Ares.
[1:26] Here.
[1:26] Councilmember Milan.
[1:29] Here.
[1:29] Councilmember Mathent.
[1:31] Councilmember Albert.
[1:34] The first item on the agenda is consideration of proving the following consent agenda.
[1:39] What's on the agenda this evening is the minutes of a special city council.
[1:43] meeting, the interviewing city manager candidates that was held on Thursday, May 14th,
[1:49] and the minutes of the regular city council meeting held on Tuesday, March 19th as
[1:53] presented.
[1:55] Your honor, I move the fallen consent agenda is be approved, is listed, support, any comments
[2:02] or corrections?
[2:05] Roll call please.
[2:07] Council Member Ares.
[2:09] Councilmember Milan? Yes. Councilmember Maffet? Yes. Councilmember Albert? Yes. Mayor Wally? Yes.
[2:19] And the motion carries. The next item on the agenda is proclaiming that the city
[2:27] recognize April 7th through 13th as National Library Week in the city of Klauson.
[2:33] The library is a heart of a community, the campus and schools, and whereas librarians work
[2:39] to meet the changing needs of their communities, including providing reference resources
[2:44] for everyone, and bringing service outside of library walls, and whereas libraries and librarians
[2:50] bring together community members to enrich and shape the community and address local issues,
[2:56] and whereas librarians are trained, tech savvy professionals, providing technology training and
[3:01] access to download, downloadable content like ebooks,
[3:06] and we're as libraries offer programs
[3:08] to meet community needs, providing residents
[3:11] with resume writing classes, 24, 7 homework help,
[3:15] and financial planning services to teens applying for student loans
[3:18] to older adults planning the retirement.
[3:21] And we're as libraries continuously grow and evolve
[3:24] in how they provide for the needs of every member
[3:26] of the community.
[3:28] And we're as libraries, librarians, library workers,
[3:31] and supporters across America are celebrating National Library Week.
[3:39] Madam Mayor, I'm moving to the Proclamation of Recognizing April 7th
[3:42] through the 13th, 2019, as natural National Library Week in the City of
[3:49] Clotch and Be Approved, support.
[3:52] I would just like to say that the community in Clotch and is extremely blessed by a fabulous
[3:59] library with private resources and staff.
[4:06] People don't realize, I mean, really a library
[4:08] can be an economic neutralizer. So individuals that may not be able to afford to buy a book
[4:16] and educate themselves on a certain subject can go to the library for free, even if they're
[4:22] part of the membership for a nominal fee and really get some knowledge and learn about the world
[4:27] around them. I'm, say, I lead on them all the time for resources in regard to writing speeches
[4:37] and even recommendations for children's books for shower gifts to include recently a purchase
[4:45] for someone from England and they were very, very helpful. So we're very blessed and I'm really,
[4:50] really grateful that you guys provide the services that you do here in town.
[4:55] roll call please.
[4:59] Council Member Mulan.
[5:01] Council Member Matheth.
[5:04] Council Member Oberg.
[5:06] Mayor Willie.
[5:07] Council Member Ares.
[5:08] Yes.
[5:10] In the motion carries.
[5:11] Thank you very much.
[5:15] The next item on the agenda is consideration of the second reading and adoption of an ordinance to amend the code of ordinances.
[5:24] Section 78-78-361-78-363, and 78-365 of chapter 78 entitled, Trapic and Safety.
[5:34] To revise membership on the Trapic and Safety Board, the right of participation of the vote
[5:39] by the ex officio member of the Trapic and Safety Board, setting forth the standard required
[5:44] for making of decisions and allowing for the determination of special sideage by recommendation
[5:50] to the Council and repealing those revisions of Chapter 78 in consistent with these provisions.
[5:56] City Attorney Mr. King's up to we'll speak to this ordinance.
[6:00] Well, you've done an excellent job.
[6:03] What this we're doing is a little homework on this particular ordinance.
[6:07] There's been a previous history where
[6:10] Pro Tem members, the chief, couldn't vote or couldn't participate
[6:14] and there were occasions many occasions, which not all the members were there,
[6:18] so you didn't have a quorum for a meeting.
[6:20] And the goal here is to continue the efficiency
[6:23] of all the boards and commissions in doing the business
[6:25] that's assigned to them when they meet on a monthly basis.
[6:31] So the first segment of the ordinance on the second reading
[6:34] now allows now the police chief to or his design
[6:38] that to vote and to participate in a discussion
[6:43] at a regular meeting just to have the business go on forward
[6:47] with the sufficient number of people, so you're giving that person a vote at the appropriate
[6:54] time that's set forth in the in the ordinance either to be the third member or either
[7:00] to break a tie vote on business that comes before them. What this ordinance also does, however,
[7:07] it complements the signed policy that was adopted by you. And this being an administrative hearing,
[7:16] Anyone who appears before the hearing that wants to have a special sign has to demonstrate a need for doing that.
[7:24] And the important thing is that this is an administrative matter.
[7:28] Administrative matters have to set a record on the decision they make.
[7:32] So any decision made by the TNS Board has to have a rationale behind it.
[7:38] So the person, if it's a denial, knows what the reason was for the denial.
[7:43] And why is that number one to give them the basic information on why there was request was denied?
[7:51] But the second is they have a right to appeal the decision, the denial to you, city council.
[7:57] And city council then handles that hearing on the record, meaning the record being what the reason was in denying the application.
[8:09] So, you have to determine the efficiency of that and then rule whether the T and S board
[8:17] decision should be reversed, it should be sent back or it should be granted.
[8:22] And so, that is the standard in the administrative hearings that everyone who comes before
[8:28] any agency or a board or a commission in this city has a right to expect, that's the
[8:33] process standard. Also, we added another sub-paragraph to the section on objectives and duties
[8:41] that essentially says that they act upon all requests, necessitating special signage upon
[8:50] receipt of a compliant request for such a language. So you're adding that to the authority
[8:56] and duties of the organization are the traffic and safety board in 78-65.
[9:03] Those are the changes.
[9:05] Thank you.
[9:09] Here on our move, the proposed ordinance to amend the Code of Ordnance sections 78-361-78-663 and 78-65 of
[9:18] chapter 78 entitled Traffic and Safety to revise membership on the traffic and safety board, the
[9:23] for participation of the vote of the ex officio member of the traffic and safety board,
[9:29] setting forth the standard required for making a decision, and allowing for the determination
[9:32] of special signage by recommendation to the council, and repealing those revisions of chapter 78
[9:38] inconsistent with these provisions be entered into second reading and adopted.
[9:46] support.
[9:47] I seem to have worked for some reason.
[9:50] Any questions for comments?
[9:54] Roll call please.
[9:56] Councilmember Maffet?
[9:58] Councilmember Albert?
[9:59] Yes.
[10:00] Mayor Welley?
[10:01] Yes.
[10:02] Councilmember Harris?
[10:04] Councilmember Malan.
[10:07] And the motion carries.
[10:09] One would the date of this be active?
[10:11] It'll be effective ten days after the publication in
[10:17] newspaper,
[10:20] and generally the city clerk gets the ordinance sent to the paper as quickly as
[10:26] possible following week so it can start the time limit from the publication.
[10:33] This publication process still needs to go with the paper, so I know we did not need to
[10:38] how it goes, yeah, always such papers and then.
[10:43] OK.
[10:45] The next item on the agenda is consideration
[10:47] of the introduction and first reading of an ordinance
[10:50] to amend and replace the code of ordinance,
[10:52] section 14-3 of chapter 14,
[10:57] to be entered domestic file,
[11:00] follow to regulate the raising of domestic file
[11:02] as defined herein, providing the licensing
[11:05] of such domestic foul maintenance requirements and the responsibilities of owners regarding domestic
[11:11] foul providing for certain licensing procedures and the fees therefore defining circumstances
[11:17] in which enforcement action may be taken by the city with the imposition of fines requiring
[11:23] certain inspection authority and rights to the appropriate officials to ensure compliance
[11:27] with the provisions here in. Madam Mayor, I'm going to query back to you how you'd like to handle
[11:34] this council person, Moffat had some very salient comments on this ordinance that she delivered
[11:42] to me. And I know she'll address those. I'm trying to set up the procedure on that.
[11:47] Mr. Albus is here and he has some comments on the ordinance and I'm wondering where they should
[11:51] start off with just highlighting some of the changes in the ordinance. Then Mr. Albus can
[11:57] week after that, and then Ms. Mothet can comment on her observations if that's a procedure.
[12:05] And I believe we may want to open the floor to public discussion as well after Ms. Mothet.
[12:10] Do you need a motion to do that?
[12:13] To have the discussion or to open the floor or to have all of it.
[12:18] To have the discussion and to open the floor.
[12:21] Madam Mayor, I move that we have discussed the proposed ordinance
[12:26] by allowing the public to speak as well as members of Council.
[12:35] Support.
[12:36] Is that adequate Mr. King's up?
[12:38] All right, that's that.
[12:40] Oh, we have to work.
[12:42] Roll call, please.
[12:44] Council member Albert.
[12:46] Yes.
[12:47] Mayor Wellie.
[12:49] Council member Eris.
[12:51] Council member Mulan.
[12:53] Council member Muffett.
[12:54] Yes.
[12:55] On the motion carries.
[12:57] And the.
[12:57] Okay, this question, thank you, man.
[12:59] Yeah, first of all, I want to say that the public has been great in helping me out on this.
[13:06] They've been very objective, they've been very positive, and some of their comments regarding the ordinance.
[13:12] They're probably some issues regarding the context of this, and then it becomes really a public policy decision regarding how you're going to handle.
[13:21] their comments, gems comments, and what my observations may be on this ordinance.
[13:29] We changed owner in this language to really have it be expansive to not only the person
[13:36] that takes out the license, but also if they're renting a house that the owner of that
[13:42] residence is also potentially liable for any violation that may arise under the provisions
[13:49] of this ordinance, and the provisions that really will go along on enforcement are the necessity
[13:56] of maintaining the location of the outdoor cages, making sure they're suitable, so no
[14:06] vermin or rats or other vermin can get in. Also making sure that the site is cleaned up, we
[14:19] the reliance of the city is that the people who apply for the license for chickens know
[14:28] what they're doing and know the requirements as they relate to the care and treatment of
[14:34] those because there's a lot of documentation. We've read Jim's read, I don't profess to
[14:40] be an expert but I do profess to be someone that knows that there are areas that have to
[14:49] situation, so you've got to have some awareness and appreciation of your neighbors, and that means maintenance of the site,
[14:57] odor, seed, rodent control.
[15:00] So, we've created that presumption in this ordinance that the city presumes the people who raise it and know everything about it.
[15:09] We are not taking any anonymous complaints. If there's some objection about someone next door who may have birds that the neighbor is complaining about. We're not going to take them anonymously. We don't act on that. We can't enforce anything on that.
[15:26] It would be improper for our department to even act on that.
[15:30] So if it's open and obvious, maybe that's different.
[15:33] But someone calls in and makes an anonymous claim,
[15:36] we're just not going to act on that.
[15:37] The manpower we don't have to honor that.
[15:45] The other thing is that our other change in this
[15:50] is that we set a fine
[15:55] And in it, and that was a termination by the building official or an application fee not
[16:04] a fine.
[16:05] We also set up the distance, is that the outdoor structure has to be ten feet from
[16:11] any adjoining or any property lines in the back yard.
[16:19] Someone may say, well, if I have the chicken pen right now, and it doesn't meet that distance,
[16:26] what am I to do, you're going to have to move it.
[16:28] If this is adopted, you have to move it.
[16:31] Because, quite honestly, there was never any permit allowing you to put up the pen.
[16:36] So you're not grandfathered in on that.
[16:38] So you have to follow the rules regarding where the structure is going to be.
[16:42] The other thing is we allowed, if you have more than four right now, if the council determines
[16:50] so before, that's fine, but you don't, if some pass away you don't get a grand father
[16:57] in, they add more, you're stuck at four, and that's it.
[17:03] Again, as I noted to you a couple of months ago about the comment from the executive director
[17:10] or the staff are down in a county in Virginia.
[17:16] This is a serious situation because you're dealing with a residential area.
[17:20] It's a residential area that doesn't really deal with farm animals.
[17:28] It doesn't deal with birds.
[17:32] We have problems with dog feasy.
[17:35] We're going to have problems now if you do this with birds potentially.
[17:39] And I'm not saying that people don't take care of them.
[17:42] I'm just saying, if you allow them, other people are going to come in, and they may not take care of them like you do.
[17:48] So we've got to look at that as a possibility.
[17:52] The other thing on this is that I put in that if there's any complaint about noise from a next door neighbor,
[18:01] that's not something that we're really prepared to handle.
[18:03] We don't have the staff that can go out and monitor a noise for how long measure it the inconvenience of it.
[18:12] That's something that's going to have to be done between the complainant and the resident about whom the complainant is objecting regarding their hands.
[18:23] And that can be addressed in a court action that they bring.
[18:25] And we don't have the manpower really to do that.
[18:29] We have the manpower to look at the nuisance aspects of it that I've outlined on where
[18:36] that it's located, cleaned up, so forth, but we can't go into that area.
[18:42] So that was a decision we made internally to help administration out in the enforcement.
[18:50] Now Mr. Albus probably has some other observations to make on this, but those are the highlights
[18:55] somewhat of this.
[18:58] Mr. Albus.
[19:05] Thank you Madam Mayor and Members of Council.
[19:09] John had to run me and go over this ordinance and I had quite a few changes in the wording
[19:20] and John's work those out fairly well.
[19:24] I believe it's ready for the first reading and review by Council.
[19:29] We will be adding pictures of chicken coops and portable chicken coops, because of the, if you have a permanent structure, the chickens have a tendency to eat all the ground cover.
[19:42] And we have restrictions trying to protect the rights of the neighbors, distance off property lines.
[19:50] Currently we have some situations where the chicken coops are right on the property lines, and they are causing
[19:56] road-and-problems in those areas. So we've addressed many issues. Our Romney actually used to raise chickens.
[20:05] So we've have an insider
[20:07] perspective out of it, and I've learned quite a bit on the
[20:11] chickens myself
[20:13] in just doing this review with John
[20:16] And the fines section of the ordinance, I think we need to tweak a little bit better.
[20:23] I believe our current ordinance says a Mr. Meiner is a $500 fine indoor 90 days in jail.
[20:30] Obviously, we would never reach that point.
[20:33] We would start off with civil infractions, like most of our enforcement.
[20:37] The notification letter, second notification letter, and then initial civil infraction.
[20:44] A lot of these items, when it becomes a nuisance between neighbors, which John said, noise,
[20:53] it could be smell or any other nuisance, it is not enforced by the city, but it would be
[21:00] a matter between the two neighbors.
[21:06] How is dog odor handled currently in the city, if there was somebody who was complaining
[21:12] of dog feces order is a violation in our ordinance picking up your dog feces is part of the
[21:23] property maintenance code which is adopted by our city ordinances and it's letter to for people to clean up
[21:32] second letter and then it starts with a civil infraction is that in line with us John I think is this
[21:39] I don't think the wording in what you have in front of you today is correct, so we're going to, we haven't, we didn't get to that part of the ordinance when we're viewing it.
[21:53] It was in one of the other iterations of that and then we revised it, but when we discussed this and it was great the teamwork on developing this.
[22:04] We anticipated that probably there'd be some observations that Council would make on this and that's the purpose that we can always make the changes for the second reading.
[22:14] So as Jim addresses, we can refine that on a first warning and so forth.
[22:22] Because my sense is that the same standards that you, and conditions you have for a dog,
[22:30] should be the same thing that you expect of a chicken owner.
[22:32] And if the city can issue a citation to a dog owner for not picking up the pieces in their
[22:38] backyard, I think the same should apply to somebody that has chickens.
[22:42] I think we both agree with that statement.
[22:44] Yeah, you're setting the policy.
[22:47] I'm just one, but I think it's from a consistency standpoint.
[22:51] And along with the consistency, the penalties, the financial penalties, and other penalties associated with a dog are much lower than what's outlined here for the chickens.
[23:01] For a dog, you get to a maximum of 500 after your third offense.
[23:06] This puts you 90 days in jail in a thousand dollar fine.
[23:09] That's, I mean, so I agree 100% it should be more consistent with what we do with dogs.
[23:20] Ms. Muffett, did you want to?
[23:21] We can let the public.
[23:22] Oh, I did not know if you were going to do that.
[23:24] I never slept with the motion to do that.
[23:27] I did it in the motion.
[23:29] Okay, I'd like to open up the floor to public discussion.
[23:34] Any comments?
[23:41] I was a good one.
[23:43] I was a good one today.
[23:44] They want to follow.
[23:45] Oh, that was a good two.
[23:47] Maria Tyra, seven, eight, Drian, good evening.
[23:52] This is much better than the last one.
[23:55] I, um, Mr. King's up. The last one discussed, um, the code officers coming out in our property
[24:05] whenever they wanted to. Is this in any way? And I've read it through, but you know, I don't
[24:11] have a legal mind. I liberal side came out and we struck that. Okay. So our privacy rights are
[24:18] intact. The fee of $35, there's some blowback on that one back here, but I'm glad it's
[24:31] per household as opposed to per hand.
[24:37] I would like to say though, in Miss Moffitt pointed
[24:40] that out that $1,000 and up to 90 days in jail for my little pet chickens squawk in a little
[24:50] too much, or I don't know what you would consider violation, in comparison to all the other
[24:55] ordinances, I put that in my email to you that is like so extreme to me. I mean, it's just,
[25:03] and it would be better if it was in line with the other ordinances.
[25:10] This is bad for me, this is like really, it's a lot better, a lot better.
[25:17] I'm sure my colleagues here have some comments they'd like to say, but one last thing
[25:25] on the chicken coop, they're going to have pictures of different chicken coop and things like that.
[25:32] How strict are you going to be holding people to that? Because some people most of us have built
[25:39] our coops. A lot of people who are flushed with money by their coops, but I built mine or actually
[25:44] my ex-husband built mine. I have some other friends with chickens theirs was built. It's not going to
[25:50] follow the standard, each whatever they pull up, you know. It's going to accommodate the chickens
[26:00] in a humane or, you know, way, but it's not going to be what they probably are going to have
[26:09] as pet drawings and specifications. How lenient is that going?
[26:13] I'll let Jim comment on that and I made have a comment as well.
[26:22] We're just bringing up the drawings that we found in the raising chicken ordinances,
[26:33] well not in
[26:33] and the standard chicken cooops. Obviously, if you have a customized
[26:39] coop, we're going to be following the same concept, looking out for the
[26:45] health of the chickens and protecting the neighbors from undo
[26:50] nucenses. You won't be able to have free range chickens. You'll have to have
[26:55] in a chicken wire or a fenced in area besides the actual living area with the housing of the
[27:04] chickens.
[27:06] But we're not going to hold to the actual diagrams, we're holding to the concepts behind
[27:11] the diagrams.
[27:14] So there goes some flexibility there, and you're absolutely right about expense, I mean when
[27:19] we were reviewing, there were some that were $900 and that certainly not, you know,
[27:25] not advocating that, but there are certain things like wire mesh above the ground to make sure
[27:32] predators have no access, even seeds on the ground that they're somehow they're cleaned up
[27:38] so the rats or other vermin don't nibble around it. We've seen somewhere there are rat holes
[27:45] underneath a coop and that's not what we want, obviously. So those are the things that really
[27:53] are most essential when you're raising chickens from the standpoint of enforcement in the city.
[28:00] So, I just, I'm just, I'm just played as Mr. Albus. So, and I don't know what I'm talking
[28:06] about as far as housing them, but if somebody has turned a portion of their garage into a
[28:13] coop, is that a permissible use?
[28:20] Is a garage attached to those?
[28:23] Let's say no.
[28:24] Let's say no.
[28:25] best case scenario is not it could be it couldn't be an approved use we are calling for a four
[28:30] sighted structure for the coupe itself and then obviously the terminology I'm still a little
[28:39] but the fenced in area would also be four sighted and covered so the run area but that wouldn't
[28:48] be actual I think in our terminology I don't think we consider that the structure but
[28:55] the the run area. So. And then as a follow up to that, if somebody's
[29:00] garages was within 10 feet of their property line. Um, they would have to make
[29:06] the chicken coop in the run area. Um, I believe we reduced it to five feet from
[29:13] the original ordinance or did we leave it 10 feet? Okay.
[29:19] So the part of the
[29:28] I'm
[29:35] going to let somebody else speak and if I think of it, lovely Alzheimer's, I will be back up here.
[29:47] Thank you.
[29:48] Thank you.
[29:56] I just have a quick follow-up question.
[30:00] We're never allowed to let them out of coups to let them walk around the backyard.
[30:06] I defer to code.
[30:15] By this ordinance, no, you would have to. If you did have them, you would have to be under control of the animal.
[30:23] Just like we would have with our dog or cat, and you wouldn't be able to let them walk around without having control over the animal.
[30:36] In the question, if I'm understanding correctly is would those chickens be allowed to roam a backyard?
[30:44] Because if you have a dog and your dog still allowed to walk around your backyard, he's not required to stay in the dog house.
[30:54] All of our evidence and that the research says the run area,
[31:00] and that the chickens should not be allowed to free range in properties this small. That's what our research is showing.
[31:07] Are
[31:15] we not letting them roam the backyard because you think they're going to get out
[31:19] by the neighbors?
[31:21] Because in all the times that I've had my chickens, I have them in a coop, in an inside
[31:28] run, inside my garage, and with an outside run, and I will for about two hours every night
[31:34] let them out to get bugs in the yard.
[31:36] They stay and have always stayed within my yard because there's all the
[31:44] any area where it would be that they could slip out between the the fence and the
[31:49] you know the gate posts have been blocked off their wings are clipped so they're
[31:55] not flying up and out they have never left my backyard not once and I've had
[32:04] for six years now. And every single chicken I've had has never left the backyard. If they're
[32:10] not allowed to roam around the backyard, they won't be able to get the protein that's necessary
[32:16] for their diet. It would be something that would be not inhumane. I don't know keeping them
[32:26] cooped in a run without being able to get to the grass to eat it or to get to the bugs,
[32:33] whatever, it would not be a good animal husbandry, I guess you would say, they need to have
[32:40] that little bit of free, letting them out and roaming the entire neighborhood totally
[32:45] different story, but I have never had a problem with my chickens getting out and into the
[32:50] neighborhood.
[32:51] And I know of at least two or three other people that have never had that problem either.
[32:56] Because they'll stay where you keep them if they're blacked in, then they're not going
[33:01] fly if their wings are clipped. So that I do have a problem with that part because they need
[33:09] to have that time out in the yard. That's and in six years with the exception of this ordinance,
[33:16] I've never heard anybody complain and I've never had them leave my yard. So I still can't
[33:25] I remember what the other point I was going to make is, so, I mean, you have had trouble with
[33:31] hogs, hogs in the area.
[33:34] I had the hog dive once, but I used to have cats that I let outside, and I let my dog outside,
[33:43] and there's coyotes in this city.
[33:48] Somebody put a video on Facebook of a coyote running down self-rage in broad daylight.
[33:54] I saw once.
[33:55] I've seen deer in this city.
[33:58] I've seen raccoons in my front yard eating my bird seed
[34:02] from in the wintertime.
[34:05] You know, there's lots of, I've smelled scunks,
[34:07] and I've seen possums.
[34:08] There's lots of wildlife in here.
[34:11] And if my cat can get attacked by a hawk if it's outside,
[34:15] which I don't let my cat outside anymore.
[34:18] And I mean, that's nature, that's the chance I take
[34:23] To let them have the freedom I feel they need. I had the hawk dive bomb once chicken's aren't that stupid. I mean people think they are
[34:32] And they they both got out of the way and went and hit under the you know the bush is the foliage and
[34:39] Then I kept them in for about a week and half to the hawk
[34:43] Figured out that won't there's no meal there anymore. Maybe it was just passing through not living there. You know
[34:50] Um, but I just feel like that's always, that's a part of life.
[34:55] When my mother used to when I was a kid, let the cat out.
[34:57] If the cat guy hit by a car, that was part of life.
[35:01] Because you let the cat have its freedom.
[35:03] You had to let it have its, you know, a choice.
[35:06] Same with the chickens.
[35:07] I need them to be out there to have some freedom.
[35:09] So they don't get depressed to eat the bugs.
[35:12] And if the hawk gets them, the hawk gets them.
[35:16] I'm thinking from a,
[35:18] you know cleaning up dog messes or cleaning up chicken messes now you're cleaning your
[35:23] whole yard instead of your pen. I spray down my yard I spray down the fence I'm talking
[35:33] two chickens how much do you think they're actually pooping in the shirt? Do you know
[35:36] it's like they got to know that you're unique you're an exception. When you have
[35:42] you know a bunch of chickens maybe but two chickens they go to the bathroom twice
[35:45] out there while they're roaming around and that's it, you know, people that right now have
[35:49] 11. Well, that's true. I don't have that problem. And I'm sure the people with 11 are
[35:57] maintaining their yard as well as, you know, because you want them to be healthy and you want
[36:04] to be able to be out in your yard. So you're not going to be walking around in dog feces anymore
[36:10] than you're going to be walking around and chicken feces. I mean, you're going to clean it up.
[36:13] right because I don't want to be walking out there and step in either one of those things.
[36:19] So I clean it up but like I said the chickens don't do much out there.
[36:23] You know the dog does more out there and she's just a bigger animal but you know
[36:30] it's not like they're doing a lot of damage in the yard. They dig up my pansies a little bit. Yeah
[36:36] maybe but they don't do a lot of other damage in the yard. It's not a huge mess.
[36:40] The sidewalk and the driveway, you know, they're in the back or sprayed down and
[36:47] The rest of it is fertilizer, but like I said, it's two chickens for me. It's two chickens
[36:53] Twice they go to the bathroom. Maybe one's out there. There's more in the coop because it's been most of the day in there
[36:59] Then there would be out there. So
[37:02] I will
[37:03] Thank you very much. Thank you
[37:18] everything she said and also you're requiring the coupe to have four size and a roof so that
[37:24] they're literally never going to get sunlight if we're not allowed to let them out and
[37:29] and I urge you to think about all the birds on your wires pooping in your yard this
[37:34] ordinance is written for four chickens. I have more birds flying over my yard I live
[37:40] near Crooks Road. I have the Canadian geese. Their poop is much larger than my chickens
[37:46] I mean, I just, it's our backyard to take care of, you know, it's our, it's on us if they, if we get complaints, we're going to get fine. We're going to have to get rid of our chickens. So we, we take responsibility for these animals, just like we would take responsibility for our dogs.
[38:06] Bird poop is not, I mean, we're not talking about four outwilers in the backyard, you know, it's their birds.
[38:12] It's no different than having four birds on your wire in the back.
[38:16] You know, if that's offensive to you to have those four birds poop in your yard, I mean, I don't know.
[38:22] It's four little birds walking around your backyard.
[38:27] And by the definition of your poop, they're not going to get any sunlight.
[38:30] So I would urge that to be looked at, please.
[38:40] So, and I would concur if we're going to drop parallels between the regulations that we put in place for dogs.
[38:47] Dogs are allowed to roam the backyard.
[38:49] They poop that's the owner's responsibility to clean up or take care of it.
[38:52] Make sure it's not a burden on their neighbors or so the same courtesy should be applied to the chickens.
[39:00] A couple of the things that I had in here, and I mentioned to Mr. Kingston before,
[39:04] The third paragraph under Purpose needs a little tweaking to make it a little clearer as to what exactly what it's applying to.
[39:12] Right now it was a little continuing the way it was written.
[39:15] I'm going to rewrite that.
[39:18] I think just about everything else has been addressed that we're going to look at changing the fees.
[39:25] I did want to have a little discussion about the number that it's allowed.
[39:28] You know, for is low compared to I did some a little bit of research on some of the surrounding areas.
[39:36] I looked at Ferndale, who originally only allowed three, and because it became so popular and improved not to be a burden on their ordinance department or the neighbors.
[39:46] They raised it up to six recently. Some of our surrounding cities don't have a limit at all.
[39:52] And so I'd like to see that on-stop a little bit, maybe, you know, eight or nine.
[40:00] I wouldn't support that personally at this time.
[40:03] I'd like to see three or none.
[40:07] Well, let me just say from our standpoint, administration.
[40:11] We always have a firm belief that we rely upon the judgment of the policy makers to make that decision.
[40:19] And when I talked to the Furnedale Council members at a recent dinner, they said the reason
[40:29] they changed their numbers really had nothing, it had everything to do with the hands
[40:35] that people had no longer were egg laying hands, and therefore changed the numbers so that
[40:40] people could continue to have eggs being produced.
[40:46] So that's what those Council members, I think there was three of them at the dinner that we
[40:50] talking about, because I was asking about what was good, what worked, what didn't work.
[40:55] And that was the reason they said that they changed the numbers in their city.
[40:58] Doesn't say that the ordinance.
[41:00] It just up to some things.
[41:03] I have a few items if I could.
[41:06] First of all, Mr. Elvis, I appreciate your input.
[41:10] And I'm glad that somebody in our department has first hand experience with this.
[41:15] That's always helpful.
[41:17] You said that according to our ordinance, they must be in a roofed enclosure.
[41:22] I'm trying to find that in the ordinance.
[41:24] I know under number 3D.
[41:29] It says domestic file shall always be enclosed outside,
[41:33] and not allowed to roam beyond the property boundaries of the licensing.
[41:39] I don't know if there is somewhere else in this ordinance,
[41:43] the year referring to under definitions,
[41:49] one B, animals, and one enclosure means an outdoor
[41:53] foresighted enclosure for the keeping of domestic fall, which domestic fall by our ordinance
[42:01] is just chicken hens, so it doesn't pertain to duck skis, paratroopers, quail, flamingos.
[42:13] So according to what you understand this ordinance to say is that there should be a foresighted enclosure with a roof, although I'm not sure I see that.
[42:28] But your understanding is that it should be a foresighted enclosure with a roof and that the chickens should never be allowed to leave that enclosure.
[42:47] I just handed it to you on the Councilman a description.
[42:54] What I'm describing as the coupe is the foresighted structure with the roof where they're
[43:01] protected from the elements and then the enclosure that also has to be at least 10 feet
[43:08] off of the property lines is the fence in area where the chickens would be out roaming the
[43:16] yard. She did bring up a good point that chickens do need fresh ground cover. I do have pictures
[43:24] of a permanent chicken coop right along the end run way along a property line that hasn't
[43:32] been moved and all the ground cover has been eaten away by the chickens which promotes
[43:38] disease in the chickens. So that's one of the portable structures so they could move around
[43:44] get fresh ground cover through the seasons. Obviously we have residential properties that are
[43:49] quite small, but keeping the 10 feet off of the property line is to protect the rights
[43:54] of the neighbors. Now we want to protect the rights of the owners to use their property
[44:02] how they want with the chickens, but we also have to protect the rights of the neighbors
[44:08] from no senses.
[44:10] So just so I understand, and from the illustration that you provided us,
[44:15] you expect, or our expectation, is that the chickens will be enclosed in a roof structure,
[44:21] but that roof could be, as is here, some sort of mesh that allows sunlight to pass through, is that?
[44:28] That would be the enclosure or the run.
[44:31] I don't think we had the terminology proper.
[44:33] Okay, I don't know if the ordinance needs to be updated to reflect that but and I don't know if that is sufficient for chicken owners
[44:42] I don't know that based on the input we've received this evening but
[44:51] I guess I expected chickens to be allowed to roam a backyard upon occasion if the property owner
[45:00] The other question I had in Mr. King said is that under point number 2 is the first paragraph, which is one of the longer paragraphs.
[45:14] It does say that the purpose of this ordinance is to provide the means of licensing domestic
[45:22] foul owners.
[45:25] And while the ordinance assumes a license, the ordinance and I, I mean, I've read a few
[45:33] times through now, the ordinance doesn't say that a license is required.
[45:38] It assumes it in several places, but it doesn't explicitly state that a license is required.
[45:44] And maybe I'm just misreading the ordinance, and it's my own misunderstanding, which is completely possible.
[45:53] And so maybe you could work clarify that earlier that up for me, please.
[45:57] And then just remember that the ordinance, as it's adopted,
[46:01] does need to state when the ordinance would be effective.
[46:06] All right, ten days following.
[46:13] I don't know what the problem is with the chickens running around a backyard because they can't fly.
[46:20] So if they're just walking around the backyard as long as the homeowner clips, they would be able to get over a four-foot fence if the wings are clipped.
[46:34] Okay, don't normally all of you.
[46:36] Well, I want my chickens flying away, yeah, look at her wing.
[46:40] Okay, so that's right. I figured that.
[46:42] I think it's kind of like a dog. If the dog runs away, there's somebody finds it or you don't have a dog.
[46:47] What if we were to put a time restriction on the amount of time that chickens, because you
[46:52] do put them to bed, you read a story, tuck them in, right?
[46:57] What if we were to, because I get what you're trying to accomplish is not the chickens running
[47:03] around all the time and that they're being the coop and managed for a good period of the time,
[47:08] right?
[47:08] What if we were to put a no more than a 12 hours, because we have the dogs can't be barking
[47:13] more than 30 minutes that kind of thing? What if we were to say, you know, and that would
[47:18] give something concrete if someone's complaining, you know, the chickens they're running
[47:21] around the back yard for 14 hours all day, they're not being properly taken care of, because
[47:26] that at the end of the day is part of it, right? Having them properly taken care of. So if we were
[47:30] to say no more than 12 hours or 10 hours, whatever is reasonable time for them to get their
[47:35] protein or something like that, that's kind of a middle ground to me that seems completely
[47:41] down enforceable. I don't know, I guess, necessarily with the answers. But Mr. Albus, I mean,
[47:49] you said according to your research, this kind of enclosure was important. And so could
[47:56] you share any of that with us and whether that's here or later?
[48:02] Well, the enclosure is to keep the chickens out of the elements. I think one of the original
[48:08] arguments for three chickens is because they had to huddle together for warmth, just like a dog house.
[48:15] It's an area to get out of the elements.
[48:19] And they also do need the runs to get out and get the fresh ground cover to supplement their diet and prevent diseases.
[48:27] So it was our judgment is for our residential-sized properties that to protect the rights of the neighbors and to protect the rights of the chicken owners.
[48:40] That's where we determine the ten foot off the property lines.
[48:43] So if I have free roaming chickens, there is no distance from property line that we're talking about.
[48:49] So the goal is to never have a chicken within ten feet of the property line.
[48:53] The 10 feet refers to the structure, not to the animals themselves.
[49:00] But it's a bit of an opposite point, the enclosure.
[49:04] So under one A, it speaks of an enclosure.
[49:08] And then under three
[49:14] D says they shall be always B in closed outside.
[49:19] Right. And that's what we're talking about eliminating the always enclosed outside.
[49:23] Then you go on to the 10-feet property line, the distance of the outdoor structure,
[49:28] from a joint property line, you should have released 10-feet from any property line located in the back yard,
[49:33] or the rear residence, and I get the need to not having the chicken coop up against someone's back yard.
[49:38] That's reasonable, but it doesn't anywhere suggests that the chickens themselves have to be 10 feet away,
[49:44] and so if we keep the structure, or have to be 10 feet away, the structure has to be enclosed,
[49:48] because the animals need to be kept safe from the elements and whatnot.
[49:54] But then also that allows for them to be around the backyard for whatever period of time is safe for the chickens to get their protein in their fresh air.
[50:04] It was my interpretation when we were right in the ordinance that the enclosure would be the chicken-wired fenced in area also.
[50:12] And then the structure, the coop, was the hard structure.
[50:19] I guess that we got the terminology a little bit.
[50:21] Understood.
[50:22] But if we eliminate necessitating an enclosed chicken run,
[50:27] and allow people to have the chickens be in the backyard outside of an enclosed chicken run,
[50:33] then the only thing that needs to be ten feet from the property line is the coop,
[50:38] which keeps them safe, they can be in the night.
[50:40] that sort of thing, the chickens themselves, not being an enclosed chicken run, have the entire
[50:45] backyard, walk around to get their fresh air, always kept in the chicken coop at night,
[50:51] because they wouldn't, that's what you do with chickens, right? Put them in bed.
[50:57] Yes, and you can probably ask the chicken owners if we're not regulating the backyard, do we even
[51:03] need to regulate chicken coops, can they stay in the house or in the garage? So, I don't think
[51:10] that they stay in the house, everyone's in agreement that they belong in a coop outside.
[51:15] In question is whether or not you have to enclose them when they're running free and
[51:20] allow them to run free within the parameters of the fence.
[51:25] I guess I go back to that what we're similar to what we require of our dog owners.
[51:31] I don't know that we don't say that a dog can't run in somebody's backyard.
[51:37] I don't see the difference unless, you know, we need to be educated on what the difference is based on your research.
[51:45] I mean, I understand being considered of the neighbors, but we don't have those same consideration levels for some of it has their dog.
[51:54] And I can tell you my next or neighbor's dog have a scratch to my fence because they don't like to stay 10 feet away.
[52:03] If there's a case we made, I think we would be open to those suggestions, again, you said
[52:12] that there was some research done, and I assume you might not have that with you, but that
[52:18] suggested that requiring this enclosure was important.
[52:22] It doesn't seem like this is going into first reading this evening, so I don't know if we
[52:28] can review that, maybe get any more information on that.
[52:35] I mean, we're getting really down to the single words here
[52:39] in there, which is a good thing.
[52:43] I think for chickens is a good number right now.
[52:48] And if it's, you know, if this is met with our
[52:51] well-mann's success, great thing is we can change it
[52:54] in the future.
[52:54] So, you know, I think I think four is a good place to start personally.
[53:02] When I was, you know, I'm not necessarily in favor of this.
[53:06] I made myself really clear and with some help from friends.
[53:10] I've been named the butcher of class and it was really quite an honor because if you know me,
[53:14] I go to Hollywood and I love them cut up on my meat because I don't even like touching chicken
[53:18] and stuff like that. It's gross. So that said, other communities have when they enacted
[53:24] ordinances for chickens, they limited the number of licenses they issued initially, so
[53:31] they could see one, one, how it ran, how their ordinances worked so that they would have
[53:37] plenty of opportunity to tweak things.
[53:39] As they go with a small group as opposed to potentially large group, we don't know how many people
[53:44] are going to jump on the bandwagon, but we do know that the number that we started off with
[53:48] here has grown, and in conversation we find that the population is a little large in the
[53:53] we'd initially thought, I would like for us to absolutely
[53:57] consider putting a limit on the number of licenses that we
[54:01] allow for a period of a year or perhaps two just to get this
[54:06] under.
[54:08] What if they're all in the same neighborhood, though?
[54:10] I mean, what does that accomplish?
[54:12] Unless you do limit so many per, I mean,
[54:15] what if everybody on one block, it's all the chicken.
[54:18] I mean, that's a lot to me.
[54:20] How would we legally do that, just because it's a trial, because I don't know that we limit how many other things are done?
[54:30] I have to noodle that, I think.
[54:35] I mean, I see where you're going, but I have to noodle that I just don't know.
[54:42] Putting in an ordinance that there's a trial period of X number of months or years, what's the purpose for that really?
[54:51] and what's the purpose to be expressed so the public has the information on why it's
[54:58] on an interim basis.
[54:59] I would say the purposes, these discussions we've had all along. These discussions are like
[55:03] up and down and in and out. Everything's really clear, right? They're not up to, they're not up to
[55:10] if they are pets, they watch TV with me, they, you know, whatever. They do lots of things and then
[55:17] as we talk about it, it's much more involved. There are many more layers and there's a lot
[55:21] concerns for not just the owner. I'm assuming a few people who've shown up here regularly are probably
[55:28] pristine, great pet owners. You'd probably want to give them your kids, right? But there are other
[55:35] people that we don't know take the same pride in their yards, their same concern over their neighbors,
[55:42] and perhaps the same care in their animals. So those things are things we have to consider. And we're
[55:47] building and safety department to ask them to come up with this magic panacea to satisfy everyone
[55:53] here and and really an unknown. And I'm always troubled when someone says other neighborhoods,
[56:00] other communities do blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. This is class and we want to
[56:06] stake class and class and doesn't have to have nine. They don't have to have 15. They actually don't
[56:10] have to have any. I think we need to look at things from within our scope and our per view and go
[56:16] from there. And I think doing something in a way that satisfies everyone and perhaps is a little
[56:23] bit more muted out is not an unwise thing to do. And I will give you the data that I had
[56:32] from other communities and also to if you need help to see why it might be advantageous to
[56:37] limit the number for a period of time just to see how it works. I will tell you I know one of
[56:46] and allow, they started with three, I think they're up to four chickens, I know that, but
[56:51] there were three communities that I can think of right now that did it. One is very close to us
[56:57] and the other two are out of state. But for our standpoint, I just think it's smart for everyone.
[57:03] It's a really nice way to say, you're getting what you want. Now, you get the opportunity to build
[57:09] something that works and that will work long-term, and we're not shutting anybody down. Just my views.
[57:16] I'm going to go for check-ins.
[57:21] Well, listen, there's going to be a lot of substance in the discussion tonight from
[57:25] the public as well as from the council.
[57:29] And I think, I mean, Jim and I have always had a fair understanding of where you're coming
[57:34] from.
[57:35] And I think what we can do is refine it based on some of the points tonight, realizing that
[57:42] comes back to you that probably there will be a discussion on some of the other areas, maybe
[57:48] number, maybe roaming whatever, but I think we can make the changes that will be a substantive
[57:56] change to the text that you had before you that should satisfy you and then we're narrowing
[58:02] the argument or the discussion.
[58:07] Again, we're formalizing something that has existed in the past
[58:11] informally. And when you do that, you're creating sort of a new arena. And you don't know
[58:19] what doors may be open to having more in the neighborhood. And that's the thing you have to look
[58:26] at as well as you look at the community, the residential portion of the community and what it's
[58:30] like. But I think we've got a balance that we can feed back to you. And that might take a couple
[58:39] weeks to do, but because we do our research as well and have on a lot of stuff, and I appreciate
[58:45] the research you've done as well, and that's helpful.
[58:49] More input we have collectively, the better off we are in framing a document that is realistic.
[58:56] Realistic.
[58:58] I do.
[58:59] One more question if I could.
[59:01] So, Mr. King, say we adopt an order this ordinance or something very similar to it without a limit to the number of licenses.
[59:12] And within the first month, we have 500 applications for licenses, which is 10% of the homes in the city, right?
[59:20] And Mr. Albus comes to us and says,
[59:23] guys, we have 500 applications, we can't handle this right now.
[59:29] Is it outside of our purview to say,
[59:32] at that point to limit the number of licenses to the first 50 applicants?
[59:37] Is that?
[59:39] I would not do that.
[59:42] With respect to what you're saying.
[59:46] My perception of that is that
[59:51] It doesn't place you in the realm of the necessary authority that is given to you.
[59:58] And that is when you're at that.
[1:00:00] In order to be definitive at that time by using your best judgment and advance to come up with a language you believe is appropriate at that time.
[1:00:11] If there are a lot of applications that come in, we have to face that situation at that time and what it does to dictate change of any.
[1:00:21] I guess that my question would be is can you issue a moratorium like we've done in other areas recently?
[1:00:30] You can, you can, but this is my other side coming out, the liberal side.
[1:00:38] On a moratorium, it is very, very limited.
[1:00:43] And if we have an ordinance in place that people can rely on and are applying for, a moratorium will not be good because what you're doing is you're doing a resolution to suspend the operation of an ordinance that you're adopted.
[1:00:59] You can't do that. So you have to look at me to come up with some imaginative way to do it and I'll tell you right now I couldn't.
[1:01:07] and that context because a case law just doesn't support you.
[1:01:12] What if in a attempt to ease into it, there's,
[1:01:15] we offer a limited amount in the first year
[1:01:19] and then open it up in the second year.
[1:01:24] All right, I think just look at the whole concept
[1:01:28] of that working with Jim so that we don't want to overburden
[1:01:32] our building officials,
[1:01:37] while they have an opportunity
[1:01:39] to find tuna if needed.
[1:01:41] You can always amend the ordinance.
[1:01:43] So I would say you amend the ordinance based on the demand, the need, whatever, that's what you do.
[1:01:50] So right now you come up with what you believe is the most realistic ordinance.
[1:01:55] Based on the information you have, based on the information we've gleaned and can give to you.
[1:02:01] And take it from there.
[1:02:02] You look like you have a comment, Mr. Albus, and regard to this discussion.
[1:02:06] I was just thinking of if we're widening the area and not restricting it that we'd have our license and then our first thing would be notifying the homeowner or the chicken owner, which could be a renter and the owner of the property of a violation of our ordinance.
[1:02:30] And then actually revoking the license and not even having a fine on it and have it a
[1:02:40] neighbor to neighbor issue with the nuisance for violating our license requirements.
[1:02:50] And if the neighbor has the documentation.
[1:02:53] So it wouldn't be an enforcement issue with the city going after it would be a neighbor
[1:02:59] to do this you because we pulled the license. So if they make the corrections then the license
[1:03:05] can be re-issued. So to loosen up my enforcement time in my officer's time and courts
[1:03:15] fighting this, it could be just a licensing procedure and then letter notifying them what they're
[1:03:21] in violation of the license and then revoking of the license or reinstating of the license.
[1:03:27] So it would be just walking on to the property at their request or verifying that they haven't corrected it.
[1:03:35] But we wouldn't get into the ticket writing aspect of it.
[1:03:42] I don't know if John agrees with that thought process or not.
[1:03:47] Anything along those lines is subject to discussion and then analyzing what the ramifications are.
[1:03:56] Okay, well, you have information enough to give it a second.
[1:04:02] We appreciate it.
[1:04:03] Thank you very much.
[1:04:04] Thank you.
[1:04:05] First reading to come.
[1:04:08] Thank you very much.
[1:04:13] Okay.
[1:04:15] The next item on the agenda is consideration of approving the letter of employment by
[1:04:20] between Erin Irwin and the City of Klauson to fill our new city manager position.
[1:04:27] All right, honor, I move the letter of employment,
[1:04:31] just offered to you, Erin Irwin, for the position
[1:04:34] of City Manager of Class and be approved.
[1:04:40] Mr. Kingston, may that sense that you reviewed the proposed agreement?
[1:04:44] I have reviewed the proposed agreement.
[1:04:47] It meets with the or expectations.
[1:04:50] It meets with Mr. Irwin's expectations as well.
[1:04:54] Well, I think this is just a wonderful step forward for this city.
[1:05:02] Any additional comments?
[1:05:05] Welcome.
[1:05:06] Thank you very much.
[1:05:07] To a roll call that we bring up Mr. Erwin to introduce them to them.
[1:05:12] Mayor Willie.
[1:05:14] That's a member, Eris.
[1:05:17] Yes.
[1:05:17] Council member Melan.
[1:05:19] Council member Matheth.
[1:05:21] Council member Alvik.
[1:05:22] Yes.
[1:05:23] And the motion carries.
[1:05:24] Mr. Irwin, would you like to come to the microphone and introduce yourself?
[1:05:40] I'll be officially welcoming you, very excited that you're here and look forward to you
[1:05:44] starting here at the city.
[1:05:46] Thank you very much, and thank you for the support all along and eager and looking forward
[1:05:53] to being a part of many good things going on in the city and growing up my sleeves and getting
[1:05:58] some good work going.
[1:05:59] had a chance to speak to John a little bit earlier, and to Troy and to all the council members
[1:06:06] and finally to Matt and it's good to chat with you and look forward to some good topics,
[1:06:12] including chicken coops, maybe you'll have the solution.
[1:06:19] Well, do we have official first days, then you start?
[1:06:23] Hopefully Monday April 22nd, three weeks from yesterday.
[1:06:35] Thank you very much.
[1:06:37] Thank you.
[1:06:44] The next item on the agenda is consideration of the list of bills that's presented.
[1:06:49] Mayor Preet, Bill's support.
[1:06:52] Questions, corrections on the bills?
[1:06:59] Council Member Ares.
[1:07:02] Yes.
[1:07:02] Council Member Malan.
[1:07:05] Council Member Malan.
[1:07:05] Council Member Matheth.
[1:07:07] Council Member Albert.
[1:07:09] Mayor Willie.
[1:07:11] The motion carries.
[1:07:13] May the bells.
[1:07:15] The next item the agenda is the city attorney's report.
[1:07:18] I have no reports.
[1:07:20] At this moment, other than saying that the South Oak and attorneys met last week,
[1:07:25] which we do about every four months to discuss things and some of the communities are going
[1:07:33] on a limited basis on medical marijuana as well as marijuana considerations so we you know it's
[1:07:45] still up in the air on what's happening or going to happen we don't know what the regulations
[1:07:50] are going to be as they come out and I let you have a new body doing it I don't know how he's
[1:07:55] that is going to be, I think the change was made due to the delay that was set up by the
[1:08:00] previous administration in the state.
[1:08:06] I, Jim and I have always tried to be a little forward thinking and reading your minds, and
[1:08:15] we have talked to the planner about looking at proposed ordinances that might be relevant.
[1:08:24] If marijuana becomes an issue in the community or consideration in the community, I think it's
[1:08:35] wise if you go into that discussion that you be aware of what risks might occur or what
[1:08:43] might not occur or the type of ordinance you would want or the limitations on licenses you
[1:08:48] want. Just so you have that background knowledge. And that is then going to be your business
[1:08:56] decision. But I think that as always you want to be prepared in advance of what the issues
[1:09:02] might be, the pluses and the minuses, and as good legislators, that's what your role is,
[1:09:09] and then you make the call. It basically will be a business decision on it. But there are ramifications
[1:09:15] under each license, and you've got to determine, do we want that in our community or not?
[1:09:21] First, we have to figure out what the state is going to do.
[1:09:24] That's hard to make our ordinances, if you don't know what the state is.
[1:09:28] That is hard work, that is hard.
[1:09:31] But here's the thing, remember, the big law firms are involved in this now, used to be the
[1:09:44] national law firms will be coming into this territory and they will definitely be looking
[1:09:49] at cities and challenging cities about the existence of some license in their community.
[1:09:58] You, on the other hand, as good stewards of the city have to look at, we are going to have
[1:10:04] control, because we have stewardship over our residents, so we are going to have a say one
[1:10:11] or the other on it. And we make the decision. But be prepared for that fight. The fight will come.
[1:10:20] Nothing else. The Detroit Free Press had a really excellent article yesterday about this topic.
[1:10:29] And it did call up that over 400 communities have opted out of recreational marijuana,
[1:10:34] awaiting the state's interpretation of the past, the past ballot proposal.
[1:10:42] One of the things that it calls out is that there are five different types of marijuana facilities
[1:10:48] and licenses that can be distributed.
[1:10:53] And what the ballot proposal did not address was whether a city or a municipality can opt out of certain types of licenses.
[1:11:01] And so there's that interpretation floating out there that you either have to allow all of them or allow none of them.
[1:11:06] And so again, that interpretation issue is still being worked through as well,
[1:11:12] and it may
[1:11:13] be wise to opt out until there's further clarification on it.
[1:11:22] It's not saying that, again, we talk frequently about how ordinances can be changed.
[1:11:29] But, you know, opting out until further clarification is made, seems wise based on what
[1:11:37] There's also a number of municipalities who have already written ordinances to opt in.
[1:11:43] And so there's people on both sides, and I again stress that 66.67% of our population
[1:11:52] voted for the proposal.
[1:11:54] We need to understand why they did that and what they wanted from us.
[1:11:58] And so I strongly suggest that before we make any ordinances or take any action, we do
[1:12:06] a thorough investigation of our citizens
[1:12:09] and find out what they were looking for
[1:12:11] when they voted, yes, on that.
[1:12:13] Were they looking for it to be in our city,
[1:12:15] or were they looking just to be able to use it?
[1:12:16] I mean, we need to do, and all the other communities
[1:12:19] who have opted out either put a parameter and date
[1:12:23] on that ordinance of when the act out ended,
[1:12:27] and they all started doing some significant investigation
[1:12:30] Royal Oak, I know, is doing, they've hired an outside company
[1:12:34] to survey the residents and their doing all kinds of workshops, so I think we need to do the same
[1:12:39] due diligence.
[1:12:40] And it's just to clarify the 66.7% of voters who, in the last election, that's the
[1:12:49] percentage, not 66, not necessarily 66.7% of the percent of the percent that was the
[1:12:54] percent that it passed by in our city.
[1:12:57] The number of voters, you said that was by a class in residence, there's a big difference
[1:13:03] It's just a big difference.
[1:13:05] I'm sure there's more education that we're going to have to
[1:13:07] have together as a community and further discussion.
[1:13:14] I have city managers report.
[1:13:17] Nothing to report.
[1:13:19] Nicely done.
[1:13:21] However, as our chief, sir, any.
[1:13:27] Well, for me, thank you.
[1:13:28] Thank you.
[1:13:28] We're waiting for the weather to get nice.
[1:13:30] We're going to bring our new fire truck by.
[1:13:32] that you guys see it. But I figured we wait till it was nice out.
[1:13:36] Well, I got sort of room. I said it's arrived.
[1:13:39] I can't answer anything.
[1:13:41] It's something like that.
[1:13:41] This would be your moment to show you guys any time.
[1:13:43] But I've been hopefully waiting for the weather to get nicer.
[1:13:47] The last time we tried to show you a new fire truck, it was cold and trenchant rains.
[1:13:52] And that's just bad luck.
[1:13:54] We'll wait a little while there's nice.
[1:13:55] I'll bring it here.
[1:13:56] You guys can check it all out.
[1:13:57] Oh, it's nice fire truck.
[1:13:59] I don't want to try it.
[1:13:59] Thank you.
[1:14:00] It is running on calls on a regular basis.
[1:14:03] We don't get today.
[1:14:05] So.
[1:14:05] That's what?
[1:14:06] City Clerk's report.
[1:14:09] I did run and provide an update.
[1:14:11] We're very busy in the Clerk's office preparing for the May 7th election.
[1:14:16] In the past couple weeks, we sent out the absentee ballot applications, which was 900
[1:14:23] applications went out.
[1:14:24] So far, since we've sent those out, we've made that over 350 absentee ballots to voters.
[1:14:32] So we've also tested our election equipment and then some other requirements to prepare for the election.
[1:14:39] And I also wanted to take the time to remind all the residents that as a result of the passage of proposal three,
[1:14:48] you do not need a reason to request an absentee ballot any longer.
[1:14:52] So all registered voters are eligible to receive an absentee ballot.
[1:14:58] They just have to contact the city clerk.
[1:15:00] Office, and request an application to receive an absentee ballot, and we'll send that right out to them.
[1:15:07] Thank you.
[1:15:07] That's it?
[1:15:12] Was there any unfinished business?
[1:15:18] Well, I have all sorts of new business items, things that are coming up soon.
[1:15:25] I did want to start with saying that the bunny brunch was canceled due to a lack of interest
[1:15:30] this year.
[1:15:30] However, Kathy Lane House had already booked the entertainment, and so we have actually donated
[1:15:37] that entertainer to the pediatric wing of Roy Luck Beaumont, and really wanted to give
[1:15:44] K through Kathy to give something back, so I want to give her credit for that.
[1:15:53] Tomorrow I'm not sure what's too late, but the American Red Cross will be doing a blood drive
[1:15:56] here at City Hall from 1 to 7 p.m.
[1:16:00] And the tables of Treasure Indoor Garage Sale
[1:16:02] is over a counter community center this Saturday.
[1:16:05] From 9 a.m. to 1 p.m.
[1:16:08] We'll check it out.
[1:16:09] There's always great fines there.
[1:16:11] The Easter egg hunt over a class in City Park
[1:16:14] sponsored by the class in Youth Assistance
[1:16:16] is Saturday April 13th.
[1:16:18] As we like to say, starts at 11, over at 11, 02.
[1:16:22] So be there early.
[1:16:24] The fourth annual Heroes vs. Leaders game, it will be a
[1:16:29] class in city park on Saturday, May 4th.
[1:16:31] That's a ways off, but get it on your calendar.
[1:16:34] Our class in farmers market will soon be opening.
[1:16:38] May 19th is Flower Day.
[1:16:40] And we'll start, what was the date that they're going to start on Wednesdays?
[1:16:52] Wednesdays, starting May 19th.
[1:16:56] They'll be over at the June 5th over at Salt and Sugar Company.
[1:17:02] June 5th to September 25th on those Wednesdays.
[1:17:11] Once again, Klauson was picked to participate
[1:17:13] in the DAA Insighted Out program,
[1:17:17] and so the installations will be going on around April 15th,
[1:17:20] and those pieces of artwork will be out
[1:17:22] until July 15th, roughly.
[1:17:24] So you should see about seven pieces of art
[1:17:26] from the DIA around town at local businesses.
[1:17:31] The Chamber Spring Auction Dinner is coming up on April 26.
[1:17:35] It's from 6 to 10.
[1:17:36] You've got a dinner, and please do reservation email
[1:17:40] by emailing the Chamber of Commerce.
[1:17:43] And it was, I think that was all I had.
[1:17:47] And just citywide city garage, so I'll
[1:17:50] get it under calendar is Friday through Sunday, June 7th,
[1:17:54] through 9th.
[1:17:56] Anyone else got anything?
[1:17:57] Okay,
[1:18:02] I'd like to open up before to public discussion.
[1:18:10] Good evening.
[1:18:12] I'm Padme Coupa, the State Representative.
[1:18:15] Elected less than six months ago and serving been there about three months now.
[1:18:20] We started on January 9.
[1:18:23] It was my first time elected to public office.
[1:18:26] I've served.
[1:18:28] The City of Troy is planning commissioner as a zoning board member.
[1:18:31] So I understand the challenges that you're facing tonight, as you discuss all these different
[1:18:36] ordinances and getting to the weeds.
[1:18:39] I also appreciate the resolution that you just passed about National Library week.
[1:18:44] I was actually honored to be in the video that's going to be screens during that time.
[1:18:49] Just a little bit of information about me.
[1:18:53] I live in Troy.
[1:18:54] I live there for more than 20 years.
[1:18:55] I have two kids, 20 and 23, they're out of the house, but still on the payroll sometimes.
[1:19:04] And I just recently sent out a little bit more information.
[1:19:09] It should have been as an insert in the Royal Oak Review that you received.
[1:19:15] So hopefully you didn't recycle it yet.
[1:19:18] It has not only my information, but some information that you might find useful.
[1:19:23] We've received calls not only about constituent concerns that we can address, but also about constituent
[1:19:30] concerns that we cannot address like, why is my tax bill so high when you're talking about federal
[1:19:35] taxes? I also have on their pictures and a little bit of information about both my staff members.
[1:19:42] One of them is here this evening, Harish. Kyle is busy in Lansing taking care of many constituent
[1:19:49] concerns.
[1:19:51] We do have on here are coming up coming office hours that we had planned before
[1:19:57] this went to print and got inserted. They are this month, they are April 13th and April
[1:20:03] 22nd. I too love libraries. The first one is at Blair Memorial Library from 330 to 5
[1:20:11] PM on Saturday April 13th. The second one is at the Troy Public Library on Monday, April 22nd
[1:20:19] from 4 to 530 PM. In addition, we have two special things in April. One is that we will be
[1:20:25] doing a senior only coffee or senior focused coffee hours, anyone is welcome to come at the
[1:20:31] Class and Senior Center on April 29th and on April 6th at coffee coffee in class and we are
[1:20:40] doing joint coffee hours with Senator Mallory MacMaro. So please join us at 1130 for coffee
[1:20:48] in conversation with Senator Moro.
[1:20:53] We have done several office hours over the last three months, and we also did something
[1:20:59] special with an education town hall.
[1:21:03] We had board members as well as a superintendent of class in at the town hall, unlike most
[1:21:09] town halls, it was not educators, but we had a lot of business leaders to talk about
[1:21:13] the need for educated workforce and the importance to our economy of having quality public education
[1:21:20] investing in our children as you know we do have children who don't vote but they are really
[1:21:26] the ones who are the recipients of our education funding and so we really need to make good
[1:21:32] choices about education for our children because they are our future. We have another one scheduled
[1:21:39] in August, place to be determined specifically, but it will be in
[1:21:45] class and it will focus on care. I think an important role of government is to
[1:21:51] talk about caring for your neighbor, because that is what government does and we are
[1:21:55] in aging state, but we have everything from child care to foster care to elder care
[1:22:00] that we are planning to cover in that care town hall. We are responding to
[1:22:07] constituent concerns, as you may know, or if you haven't, followed me at my rep, Padma
[1:22:13] Kupa on Social Media.
[1:22:15] I've been assigned to the Energy Committee and the Local Government and Municipal Finance
[1:22:19] Committee.
[1:22:21] As part of the Energy Committee, I have raised issues with DTE when we lose power.
[1:22:28] I've gotten some feedback, so if you have questions, please reach out to me what they have
[1:22:34] provided.
[1:22:34] In both of these committees, we have received bills that we have talked about and voted on in the energy committee.
[1:22:42] The only thing that we voted on so far was House Resolution 41, which was to oppose the Green New Deal,
[1:22:52] which is something that is going on at the federal level.
[1:22:55] I kind of wondered and asked why we were discussing something that's not even policy.
[1:23:00] that has been passed at the federal level is a concept can we focus on issues at the state legislature
[1:23:05] can take care of.
[1:23:08] Similarly, I believe that local government and municipal finance should not overstep our
[1:23:12] bounds and leave local ordinances and local zoning to be decided by local communities.
[1:23:19] We had a divided vote on House Bill 40.95.
[1:23:27] It was to step over a zoning ordinance which currently for a group home in a rural area that's 20 acres.
[1:23:38] Group home could have sticks children.
[1:23:41] This ordinance would then mandate or give our use variants overstepping and his owning board in a rural area to allow 10 children in a group home.
[1:23:54] Now, there is a shortage of homes, but that is not the issue. They could go to their zoning board and get the use variants, however they have chosen to come to the state.
[1:24:02] And this was referred to the Ways and Means Committee.
[1:24:07] That bill number is House Bill 495.
[1:24:11] The rest of the bills that we have passed in local government,
[1:24:14] House Bill 455, 4101, 4119, and 4121, all past unanimously,
[1:24:24] and have been referred to the Ways and Means Committee,
[1:24:28] which is a new committee in the hundreds legislature
[1:24:30] that we'll consider any bills and the ways and means issues around it.
[1:24:37] I, personally, have introduced two bills.
[1:24:41] The first one is Justice for Ali.
[1:24:45] She is a vulnerable adult resident of Troy.
[1:24:48] Her parents approached a former representative, Martin Harrell-Lack.
[1:24:52] She had been coerced into doing something that is very harmful to a vulnerable adult,
[1:24:59] Providing sexually explicit content online as a mother that was the first bill that Martin Haroleck had recommended I go through the bills that he had not been able to see through there were about 90 of them
[1:25:12] This one left out at me as a mother a child who is vulnerable a person who is vulnerable
[1:25:19] Last year on NPR I heard a whole series on how vulnerable adults
[1:25:26] There's a lot of abuse going on in elder care and so this one really spoke to me, and I not only have bipartisan
[1:25:34] co-sponsorship in my hearing request, I have two former police officers who have offered their opinion on why this is an important bill.
[1:25:45] I've also spoken with Chief Sarvello as well as Chief Nastasi in Boston and in Troy respectively.
[1:25:52] This is an under-reported crime, having this loophole closed where the individual that is perpetrating this crime would be charged with either a misdemeanor or find up to $500 or up to 93 days in jail would deter people from doing this further.
[1:26:11] I'm hoping to have a hearing on this. I meet with the chair of the committee next week.
[1:26:15] The other bill I did introduced was to honor Fred Korematsu, perhaps Mr. Kingsepp will remember
[1:26:26] this from law school, Fred Korematsu sued all the way to the Supreme Court and lost,
[1:26:32] and then the decision was overturned.
[1:26:35] Many years later he was awarded a presidential medal of honor or freedom, and he basically was
[1:26:42] Japanese-American and he said I should not be in turn in a camp and it was a former governor
[1:26:49] of Michigan who gave the dissenting decision in that Supreme Court decision in 1944 and
[1:26:58] in 2017 they actually officially overturned Korematsu versus Hawaii. So to honor Fred Korematsu
[1:27:07] who met his wife at Wayne State University represent a former representative, Stephanie Chang requested
[1:27:14] that I introduce it on the House side, while she is now a senator.
[1:27:19] So now I am learning how a double blue book gets introduced, double blue back gets introduced,
[1:27:24] which means that it goes through both the House and the Senate at the same time.
[1:27:28] If we then designate January 30 in both chambers, the governor would also probably approve it.
[1:27:35] don't see that it costs anything. It doesn't hurt anybody. It is a celebration of American civil rights
[1:27:43] and why we are such a great democracy. And then the last, that was done in February and the last thing I did
[1:27:50] was introduce House Resolution 52, again non-binding, non-fiscally impactful. But I think something that
[1:27:59] all of you will understand why it did. It is to honor Michigan Water Day on World Water Day,
[1:28:04] which is March 22nd, it passed unanimously last week.
[1:28:09] In it, we acknowledge the importance of the Great Lakes,
[1:28:13] the fact that we do not want to pollute them
[1:28:15] and that we do not want to deplete them
[1:28:17] and that we should have clean safe drinking water
[1:28:20] for all of us in Michigan, especially when we have such great lakes.
[1:28:24] So I have a total of 93 bills that I have co-sponsored.
[1:28:29] I will be happy to send you a full list.
[1:28:32] I am not going to go through it in detail.
[1:28:36] I do have one request of all of you on my website,
[1:28:42] HouseDams.SlashCoupah.
[1:28:44] HouseDams.com slashCoupah.
[1:28:46] You will find a budget survey.
[1:28:50] Please, please, all of you,
[1:28:53] I encourage all the residents watching
[1:28:55] or the residents will watch this
[1:28:57] to please fill out that budget survey.
[1:28:59] I will be stopping by at various people's homes during the course of the summer to engage them in case they missed an office hours in the classroom library or the senior center.
[1:29:13] And then the last thing I'd like to say is that today is equal pay day.
[1:29:17] And I am proud to say in the state of Michigan that legislators get equal pay.
[1:29:22] However, we have a long way to go, it takes this long for women in the state of Michigan on average to get paid as much as men did in 2018.
[1:29:31] This much longer.
[1:29:33] So let us honor that and we will be celebrating that in the capital.
[1:29:38] I invite all of you to join me to ensure that all our daughters and all the women in the state of Michigan earn as much as men do,
[1:29:45] because it will be a big boost to our economy.
[1:29:47] Thank you.
[1:29:48] If you have any questions, I'll take them.
[1:29:52] Okay, I mean, but thank you very much.
[1:29:55] Thank you.
[1:30:03] Hello, I'm just Michael Frank, 1333 North Selfridge. I'm a member of the Committee for Class of Public Schools. I just wanted to
[1:30:12] come remind everybody about the May 7 election. There's one proposal on the ballot, and it's a not homestead tax for our schools.
[1:30:23] About 10% of our school budget annually comes from a not homestead village, state requires us to collect 18 mills locally and then they'll make up the difference from the 18 mills and if we collect less than 18 mills, that's money we don't get.
[1:30:43] Because of Hedley and the quick rise in values in class and Hedley is causing a row back in our 18-mill tax, which is not allowing us to collect our full amount of money for our schools, so we are proposing a new village at 22 mills to protect us from Hedley in the future.
[1:31:09] we're not allowed to ever build more than 18 mills and this being not
[1:31:15] homestead. This does not apply to your primary residence. This is basically
[1:31:20] a business tax, sorry to where I know it hits you.
[1:31:28] But this is for our kids. This is
[1:31:30] money that goes to their general fund which pays for our teachers. The book
[1:31:33] supplies the day-to-day operation or schools for our kids.
[1:31:40] If this doesn't pass, I mean, this is a large chunk of money, it's, the 18 mills gets
[1:31:46] us almost $1.9 million a year, which is about 10% of our budget, and this is really important
[1:31:55] for our kids.
[1:31:56] We're right now on pace that if we didn't do this within three years, we'd lose enough money
[1:32:03] to basically cost us two teachers.
[1:32:06] Close to $120,000, we would not be able to collect.
[1:32:11] So this mill is very important.
[1:32:14] It doesn't affect primary residences.
[1:32:19] This is basically a cost of being business in the state of Michigan.
[1:32:23] Every school district in the state is required to get this 18 mills,
[1:32:30] as part of the proposal, a funding school.
[1:32:32] So please go out and vote, please vote, yes, on this, it's for our kids.
[1:32:42] There is a public forum, a public roundtable being held next Wednesday, April 10th at 7 p.m.
[1:32:52] at the Class and Middle School Media Center.
[1:32:57] More information can be provided there, there will be a presentation and lots of people to answer
[1:33:02] question. So if anybody watching or here has any questions, please attend the meeting for those
[1:33:11] here. If you have any questions for me, I'd be more than happy to answer them. And one
[1:33:16] of this one I'd like to mention is this Friday at class in high school. There's the ladies
[1:33:22] night out activity. It's a fundraiser for the Baker Pre-School Program.
[1:33:30] It's for ladies only
[1:33:31] admission is through donation on the 3rd to 6 p.m. Again, the money raised at ladies and
[1:33:39] adults goes directly to support the the preschool. The class in preschool PTO puts it
[1:33:46] on and uses the money to help by supplies and support the preschool programs here in
[1:33:52] Where did you say that was that?
[1:33:54] There was a class in high school.
[1:33:56] Friday night 6 p.m.
[1:34:00] Oh 12.
[1:34:01] Yes.
[1:34:02] You said this Friday.
[1:34:02] I'm sorry.
[1:34:03] Next Friday.
[1:34:04] April 12th.
[1:34:08] Any questions?
[1:34:11] Okay.
[1:34:11] Maybe so much taking time.
[1:34:14] And I know if you also want to go to there.
[1:34:18] It's a Facebook page, I'm trying to see if it's in the stocking that they don't have.
[1:34:24] So people want to help out, pass up flyers, knock-on doors, blend some supports.
[1:34:29] Yes, there's a Facebook page, I'll vote yes for CPS.
[1:34:36] That is the Facebook page for the committee.
[1:34:41] Go there, leave a comment, a question.
[1:34:44] If somebody can contact you, we have, yeah, we do have flyers that can be passed out if you want.
[1:34:50] And more information,
[1:34:54] the school Facebook page also has some information, which has basically a group of frequently asked questions and answers to those.
[1:35:06] The facts around this village and why it's necessary.
[1:35:11] Thank you very much.
[1:35:18] Anyone else?
[1:35:21] Oh, I guess public discussion is now closed.
[1:35:24] Madam Mayor, move we adjourn.
[1:35:26] Support?
[1:35:27] Roll call please.
[1:35:30] Council Member Malan.
[1:35:33] Council Member Maffet.
[1:35:34] Yes.
[1:35:36] Council Member Albert.
[1:35:38] Mayor Willie? Yes.
[1:35:40] Council Member Ares.
[1:35:41] Yes.
[1:35:43] Thank you everyone for attending. Have a great evening.