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We'll call, please, Amy.

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Mayor Reed, President, Vice Mayor Fleming, here. Council Member Elcedoon, here.

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Council Member Dent, here. Council Member Robinson, here. City Manager Banks, City Attorney Brown, Chief Tucker, Chief Tobias.

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If you have please stand for a moment of silence or a silent prayer, and remain standing for the country.

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to

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the Library of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands one nation and another not in this world with liberty.

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Chief,

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before we get started, Chief Tobia, would you share your words, please?

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Yes, absolutely. Madam Mayor.

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Good evening, my name is Matthew Tobia. I am your city fire chief, thank you for being here in the evening.

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The most important thing for this evening is to ensure everyone's safety as we partake in city council meeting.

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We have an expectation that people remain seated throughout the course if you need to leave

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of course for the restroom that's fine.

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We do not allow people to stand along the walls or in the back.

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If you need to go outside, that's perfectly okay.

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And then if we have additional people arrive into this space, we may ask you to just move and

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make a new friend so that we can ensure that everybody who needs to have a seat can have one.

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In the event that the fire alarm were to sound, we will exit through the back doors in an orderly fashion.

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And just follow the directions of public safety officials who will give you guidance about what actions to take in the event that the fire alarm were.

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Thank you.

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Thank you.

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Thank you.

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Okay.

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We do have a presentation of the Virginia Department of Health Central Shenedor Health District.

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So, Mr. Xavier Crockett, please come forward.

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Hello, sir.

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Good evening. How's it right, John?

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Yeah. It's evening.

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It was evening.

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I would like to thank you guys for the opportunity to speak tonight.

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For those of you who have not had the chance to meet, my name is Xavier Crockett.

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I am the new District Health Director for Central Shining Dewey.

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And I kind of want to do two things and I don't want to introduce myself to you guys.

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would also want to talk about some of the services

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and the public health work that's taking place here

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in Harrisonburg.

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So I joined the Virginia Department of Health here in December.

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My first day was literally the day after Christmas.

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And so I had a call that day about a communicable disease

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that we were tracking and trying to contain here in the region.

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And so I've hit the road running, and I'm

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really excited to be here. A little bit about me. I have been in healthcare and public health for almost 15 years.

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I actually started my career here in Southern rural Virginia, and so I'm excited to be back after

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that those 12, 13 years have gone by, where I've grown up and learned all these other things.

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I can bring back to this community and share and do what's right here.

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My,

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the things that I like to really focus on is community health, and the way I tend to

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approach that is public health is really best when it's visible, it's trusted, and it's

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integrated into the community of everyone's daily lives, and part of that starts with me

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coming here and talking to you guys so that we can get a better understanding of what those

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needs are here in the Harrisonburg community.

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I have done public health operations.

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I've done health promotion.

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If you can think about a public health emergency,

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I've probably either participated or managed it in the last 15

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years.

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So I have a wealth of knowledge in that space as well.

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And for me, one of the things that I really

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am focusing on is making sure that the services here in Harrisonburg

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are reliable and accessible to the community.

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that the workforce is supported and equipped with the twos they need, I also want to focus on providing clear communication to this body as well as

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The community on things that are happening in terms of public health and a partnership, a real partnership that's built around the community needs.

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And so a little bit about our partnership, we are part of a district system here where we receive funding from 10 localities and part of that funding is that we work with you guys to identify what the local needs are.

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and so I'll be coming to you guys and talk into the City Manager and their team to ask more questions about

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what those local needs are and how can we better suit and help this community be as healthy as it can be.

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One of the things that we are starting in my seven months that I've just got here is we are actually

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going to be building a three-year strategic plan and so that plan will very much detail what

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We will be working on, I know, for the next three years.

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And that will include you guys and community members and community partners.

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We've already started meeting with several of the more prominent community partners here

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between HCHE, Centera, J.M.U., and getting their insight.

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And I've met with the city manager and aliens well about what their concerns are, as

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well.

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And I look forward to having those conversations with you guys.

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And one of the phrases that I do want to focus on on this slide is sheer accountability.

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My commitment to you is to make public health a trusted and visible partner here in Harrisonburg.

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I want to be transparent about the performance metrics that we're going to be putting in place for this strategic plan.

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And I want to make sure that we're having conversations early on and having conversations about emerging risk and challenges that we're seeing here in this community.

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to talk about how we can address those together.

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So here's Public Health at Work Everyday here in Harrisonburg.

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Public Health is often noticeable when we're dealing with emergency preparedness things, outbreaks,

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communicable diseases.

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But our teams on the day-to-day are investigating communicable diseases,

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we're providing services for STI's HIV tuberculosis,

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is delivering immunizations, doing travel medicine,

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new karma health, who are coming to our community.

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And I'm excited to say we had a huge back-to-school vaccination

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drive here in Harrisonburg and our clinical manager reported that

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here in Harrisonburg was the largest that we've had

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to turn out here in the last three years.

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So we are super excited about that.

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We also support mothers and their children through WIC.

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We also have maternal and child health programs.

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We conduct regularly food safety inspections here in the community.

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We also inspect wells, septic systems, our hotels, water, milk.

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We do a variety of environmental health programs here in Harrisonburg.

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And we also prepare the community partners for public health emergencies.

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And so we often are meeting with the hospitals and the universities and our local social

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services programs for when a situational rise is we know where our partners are and what

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their capabilities are and so that we can tap into those and make sure we take care of

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this community as quick as possible. And so those combinations matters, they may look

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singular but you know a resident may know us because they've received the vaccination. Apparently

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receive WIC support a restaurant was inspected or we help contain a disease at a nursing home.

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or at-a-school, together we are building what that system of prevention looks like here in Harrisonburg

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and in the region and we wanted to expand it and we want to make sure that we can keep essential services rolling.

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So here are four points that I really wanted to talk about this evening and so this is from our last

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school year, and these figures do not capture everything that we do, but they highlight some of

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the most important work that we have done over the last 12 months. And our clinic in Harrisonburg,

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we've received over 5,000 clinic visits dealing with immunizations. That is huge. Harrisonburg is

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our busiest health department, and so we're one and a sure that the team is equipped and supported

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with everything they're doing. And VDH is doing a huge influx and funding to bring our technology

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up to date. And so one of the things we're really excited about is we're going to be getting

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an electronic health record system here that will allow us to really coordinate with our community

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partners, like Centaire and HGHC and Shkintin peers, so they date.

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We can see what we see when we're dealing with our clients here in the community. One of the other big numbers that I want to talk about is a long-term care screenings of LTSS program. We did almost 800 screens here in Harrisonburg alone.

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That program is when individuals are looking to go into nursing homes here in Virginia. They have to go through a screening process and that screening is required.

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We're required to do that training for our public health, and so here in Harrisonburg, we did almost 800 of those trainings in the last 12 years, up to 12 months.

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Food safety instructions over 400 to those and then a biggie is 22 community outreach events that we either sponsored or that we partner with organizations in this community.

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And so I am hoping that when I come back to you guys and the next six months that we will have updated numbers where these numbers are showing even more work that we're doing here in this community.

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Now one of the things I want to talk to you guys about because this is something that we're

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focusing on right now and we'll continue to focus on is our response to our infant child,

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our maternal, infinite child health data that we have here.

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As you can tell,

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55% of our births here in Harrisonburg were covered by Medicaid and that's

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a negative outcome or that number, what that tells us is that those

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verse, once they're at home, we're probably going to need additional services.

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Whether it's WICS, SNAP, whether it's housing, transportation, social services.

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And so that's an indicator for us that we want to make sure that we're ensuring that postpartum

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appointments and prenatal appointments are being handled.

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And so our team here in Harrisonburg has started to really do a lot of work

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with our partners on educating the community on what prenatal and post-partum services we have.

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Now, a number that I have that I am wanting and pushing our staff to really focus on is the

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20.5%. And that is late to no prenatal care. That number there says that either mothers are

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seen a physician for the first time in the third trimester or for the first time when they're

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giving birth. And so that's one in five births here. And so we want to make sure that that is not the case.

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Because when we see them early, we can deal with health issues. We can provide nutritional support.

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We can make sure that they have the housing and the social services that Mr. Quarter make sure that that family and

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that kid have the leg up when they're born to start on our direct path. And so that's our maternal childhood

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in front initiatives will be very plentiful and you guys will hear quite a bit about that

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and I wanted to focus on that a little bit tonight because you guys will hear quite a bit

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here in the coming months about the things that we're going to be doing.

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And while those numbers are not especially the late to no prenatal care one, there are encouraging

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outcomes that we're seeing, our infant deaths while that's a tragedy are some of the

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lowest in the states.

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So we're good about the time.

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We're very happy with the conversations

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that we're having with Centaire and a work that they're doing.

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And then while we were seeing maternal smoking

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start to creep back up around the district.

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Harrison Burke has one of our lowest

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lowest percentage rates for maternal smoking here.

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So what are we doing?

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In the last seven, eight months, we have really stepped up

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to do what I've mentioned is which is educated community

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and make sure people understand that we are here to support.

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So we've 13 education citizens for car seat safety.

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And so what our car seat safety program is

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is where we give free car seats to mothers who need them.

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And so that also is a touch point for us

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where we can talk about nutritional support

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where we can talk about housing

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where we can talk about clinical needs for that family.

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And it opens the door for us to have those conversations.

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We've also done training with parents and caregivers and as you said, as you see 22 car seats

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are distributed at no cost.

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The other program that we've really highlighted in the push and is our safe sleep support.

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This is where we go into our mother's homes or they come to us and we talk about what the

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safe sleep looks like.

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We're they're sleeping with your kid or we're they're not sleeping with your infant.

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The idea is to educate you on the outcomes of all of those issues, and we've also been able to provide over 11

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cribs to mothers in the area as well.

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So the last thing you want to talk about is kind of the priority orders for the next fiscal year.

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So, one of my top priorities is to support our public health workforce. As you guys are aware, we have seen

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a significant amount of cuts and public health funding over the last year and so we have felt

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that as well. We have lost staff with our population health programs, with our community health

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workers and so we are working diligently to bounce back from that and ensuring that we invest in

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our people and the systems that keep our essential services reliable. The second thing is we just

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it through a statewide core services initiative with our new governor and our new commissioner

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where we want to talk about what are the core services of VTH and so we've identified those

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core services and the ideas to make sure that those core services no matter where you go in the

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set of Virginia if you go to a health department you can receive those core services and we're

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talking to immunizations, we're talking back to school, physicals, we're talking STD, STI testing

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treatment and those things as such. The third thing, as I've mentioned, we want to

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shift in access for families. So we're very much working on identifying funding

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opportunities in the state and out where we can bring that funding here so that

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we can improve connections to our work and our maternal and child health prevention

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program that our community departments. And then the last priority is, again, communicate

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early and clearly on what out the form it says, what we're doing, emerging risk, funding

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implications for programs that may affect our community.

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And so this is my, this has been

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my motto with my staff for the last seven months in every big meeting, is that we need to be

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a visible trust partner. And that means getting out in the community that means going out and

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speaking clearly about what we can do for this community and what we need to do for this community.

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So, I'm very hopeful about this strategic plan that we're building now, we just started the process,

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but I definitely will be coming to you guys and getting your input and talking to Andy and the rest of the team about how we can benefit this community best through you.

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Thank you.

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Thank you.

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Okay.

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We can now go to our consent agenda in the items placed on the consent agenda.

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shall be removed and taken up as a separate matter.

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So requested by any member of Council,

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otherwise all items will be voted on with one motion.

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I'll move to approve the consent agenda.

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Is present?

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Second.

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Any discussion?

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We'll call please, Amy.

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All right.

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Vice Mayor Fleming.

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Councilmember Alcidun.

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Councilmember Dent.

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All right.

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Councilmember Robinson.

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All right.

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Mary.

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All right.

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All right.

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We'll go into our public hearings.

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I don't six A, Tom, are you ready?

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Good evening, I'm Tom Ding, deputy director and community development, and I bring to you

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this evening the rezoning request for the Lindsay, which you all had reviewed back in April

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as well as an August of last year.

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So, just to, let me just kind of say here that this request had to go back to planning

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commission after the city council had tabled the request back in April.

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This was heard by planning commission in July last month.

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So the applicant is continuing to request a rezoning to be one to see which is the central

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business district conditional.

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And then if the request is approved, oops, that one.

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Sorry about that. Let's see.

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Let's go on here. Try another way.

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This request is approved. What the applicant has described is that they would construct a

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forestry building, multi-family building, with some small amount of retail use, which they

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offered to be between 2,500 to 5,000 square feet of non-residential space.

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The building would consist of a maximum of 180 units and then also have a 5-level parking

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garage that would consist of a minimum of 320 parking spaces.

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So I'll run through some of the renderings or elevations that they had provided within your

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packet.

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This previous image was from Paul Street and Main Street.

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Looking, you can see City Hall there, Campbell Street, looking at one side of the building in the parking garage, and then this here is an image from Liberty Street and the proposed Paul Street extended.

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One point out that in proper 1G, that proper continues to regulate architectural features of the building by requiring general conformance with these elevations.

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The proper also states in the last sentence there that the final color finishes materials and exact exterior specifications are subject to final construction document sight plan approval and material availability.

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So there's some flexibility with that particular proper.

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Now, with the concept plan here, they use the language of substantial conformance.

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So what we see here in this concept plan, we should expect that it's pretty much going to be what is seen here from the bird's eye or aerial view.

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Prophor 1A, that language has not changed, but I do want to call attention to a change in this concept plan compared to what they had submitted to you all for review previously.

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In the inset here, you could see that there's the image of the building in the parking deck that was presented to you all in April.

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And it's within this area that circled and read that has changed.

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Previously the parking deck was separated from the building, and as you can see in the

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current submittals of the image to the left there, it's more filled out with the building

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footprint.

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There would be more units on the interior, but more or less I would say that from what people

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would see viewing the building from the public streets is going to more or less look the same

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what has is presented in these two images is really in that interior. They call it the courtyard area

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that has been reduced in size to accommodate a larger building footprint in the interior there.

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The Prophors are still organized within these five sections. We have development standards,

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transportation improvements, parking and access, improvements and amenities and implementation.

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And I'm going to go through some of the amended Prophors in the next four slides.

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So within the packet, there's a larger version because it includes the 2025

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Prophors also, but this image here is just of April, 2026, and what is presented to you this evening.

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Here, showing total units in bedrooms, the number of one bedroom studio is four bedrooms and two and three bedrooms

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and what the profit changes are.

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So what you see here is that reduced maximum number of dwelling units has been reduced from 250 to 180.

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They've reduced the maximum number of bedrooms from 555 to 440.

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Reduce the number of studio or one bedroom multifamily units to 110 to 72.

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And they maintain the previously planned maximum number of bed room units.

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And then what we offered in here, just some percentages,

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a derived numbers for their give a picture of what these numbers mean in the context of the entire development.

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They've also made other proper amendments, which are summarized here on the screen.

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They've reduced the number of structured parking spaces from 480 to 320,

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reduced the number of electric vehicle charging stations from 14 to 10,

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reduce the minimum number of indoor covered bicycle storage spaces from 120 to 90. They maintain

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the exterior bicycle parking spaces at 16 and they've also reduced the cash contributions for

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traffic calming improvements, parking enforcement and enhancements and affordable housing.

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And what the applicant had described described was that each cash contribution reduction is generally

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proportionate to the number of units and bedrooms

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profit in the project. So, number of bedroom and units have been

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reduced and proportionately the cash

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profit amounts have also been reduced by the applicant.

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The

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building height has also been reduced by way of the

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the profit. Previously they did not address building height.

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It was just no it was explained that or rather I had explained to

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you all and it was described in the planning commission packet

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It's a planning commission into you all in the staff or packet that in B1, the zoning district, the buy rate ability is 75 feet.

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So anybody who zone B1 or has a property zone B1 can go up to 75 feet.

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With the applicant has done with this revised application.

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They've stated that they will not exceed 52 feet. They did also within that proffer, though, allow for rooftop structures, you know, the cannibal equipment and things like that, to be up to 55 feet if it's screened.

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One thing to note is that the way the zoning ordinance describes how you measure building height. It would be measured from the front of the building from a curb or a parking lot.

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the street curb or a parking lot curbing and the front of this building if this project were

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to get approved and constructed the front would be along Paul Street. So that would be where

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we would measure the maximum 52 feet in height from. And this image here on the screen is meant to point

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out that based on existing contour ground elevation information, there's about a 10-foot difference

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in elevation between the front, in the back of the building, or the front, and then back to where the gravel city parking lot exists.

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How they grade the site, if they get to construction, could change that slightly, but the grade just acknowledging that the grade does drop from Paul Street going to the north part of the property.

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The

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applicant has also changed the minimum square footage of non-residential uses from

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2,000 to 2,500 square feet and they retained the maximum 5,000 square feet.

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And that's the 5,000 square feet from a traffic impact analysis perspective.

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That's the most important number because that was the number that was studied with the traffic impact analysis.

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This, the applicant has removed occupancy restrictions that staff had described previously

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and staff reports that we had concerns that the occupancy restrictions previously

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proffered were overly restricted in that they could limit the choices that different people

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might have to be able to live into those units, people who are non-students or non-family

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situations might not be able to live there, but that was occupancy restrictions have been removed.

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The part again.

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Yes.

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Sorry, I didn't explain that well.

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So what I mean to say is that the way it was worded previously was that studio in one bedroom residential dwelling units.

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Maybe least to a family or no more than two related individuals.

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Then it went on to say that all other residential dwelling units may be least to a family or no more than one unrelated individual per bedroom.

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that would limit people's housing choices because it would limit the ability for, let me

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see, in a one-bedroom, I think of an example.

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Okay, so it could limit the ability, for

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example, let's say in a three-bedroom unit, where there was a couple who wanted to share

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a room and maybe like two other people that wanted to live there with them, they wouldn't

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able to do that. It wouldn't allow for different combinations of roommates or a family who might

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want to have somebody else live with them to share the cost.

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And then the parking agreement

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that was with the city, that parking agreement has been removed. Previously that parking

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that proper had reserved up to 65 parking spaces for municipal and public uses in the parking

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So that has been removed from the proffers.

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So, as I've discussed in previous presentations, staff,

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we generally encourage developers

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to provide a balanced mix of bedrooms per unit

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so that the buildings could serve a variety of needs

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or different types of households.

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We did encourage that with this particular application.

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We explained that, you know,

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we felt that there could be disadvantages

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to providing too many four-bedroom, four-bathroom units, but in this case that is the applicants

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intended design. So they've moved forward with this project. A reason for that concern is that

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it's really suited for college students, which the applicant has stated like that is also their

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intended audience. With that said, well, we wish there was more of a mix of housing

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a mixture of unit types within this development.

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We also recognize that there are also advantages

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to provide an student housing that is close to

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jamey campus, so within a walkable distance to campus.

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This next image that I have here, I have three stars, the blue one representing court square, the green one representing approximately where the Lindsey property is, and then the yellow star representing the limit of GMU that corner there at Martin Luther King Jr. way in South Main Street, and they're about a quarter mile distance from each other, which is a pretty walkable distance.

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So, staff, you know, in evaluating this, we believe that the number of trips to city streets

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could be reduced when housing is provided within a walkable proximity to Jamie and downtown.

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This is the comprehensive plan map showing the land use guide, the future land use guide

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designation in that hatched area.

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This is a mixed-use area designation, and staff feels that this project confirms with what

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designation is envisioned for this area.

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Additionally, the proposed development in our

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opinion would also support here, Suburg Downtown's 2040 plans, goal for growing downtown

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as a neighborhood. There are two action items within the Downtown plan, number 16 and 17 here,

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which are say that number 16 says encourage mixed use and residential development and key clusters

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of currently underutilized space.

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Number 17 says in the long term seek opportunities

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to add density and improve the urban design

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at key downtown sites.

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The downtown plan also describes

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that housing units in downtown are in high demand

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and there's very little vacancy.

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And so there is a need for more housing

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to support local businesses.

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So new information that's being presented this evening

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or at least I did not have this information

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and in prior presentations about the Lindsey is the release of the GMU campus strategic plan

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or the Madison Promise, as you're aware in April of 2026, the GMU Board of Visitors

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endorsed this strategic plan and the strategic plan states that GMU plans to grow overall enrollment

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and build more on campus housing to housing approximately 60% of students on campus by 2040.

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00:32:24,920 --> 00:32:30,340
So, this table was included in the Planning Commission, or sorry, the City Council packet.

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Showing what the current enrollment is at JMU and the number of students residing on campus and students residing off campus.

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The future based on information that was in the strategic point-in and information that we were able to gather from media sources and other places that are in the footnotes of the staff report.

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What future enrollment on an off-campus numbers would be, and then the final column on the right there is the change between the difference between those numbers.

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If GMU follows through and was able to completely execute the proposed strategic plans by 2040, the total number of GMU students residing off-campus would decline to 4,673,

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which is that number in the bottom right corner.

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And given this anticipated decline in the off-campus student population, you know,

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staff did have this conversation or questions amongst ourselves about the need for continued

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growth in off-campus housing, or in off-campus student, or in housing over the long term.

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And I know that there were public comments or other discussions at planning commission

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that didn't come to you all about the lock at Peach Grove Avenue, where similar information

375
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was presented.

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So if GMU increases its supply of university managed housing, then demand for off-campus

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student housing, you know, as we know, we would expect that to change.

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However, in staff's opinion, we felt that the change will be felt differently in different

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locations would possibly felt more in a location such as the walk, which is further from campus.

380
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The walkover at Peach Grove Avenue versus a location here, close to downtown, walkable to both downtown and

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Jamie campus.

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We think that this particular location is better positioned to having students live here and could reduce that

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reliance on personal vehicles compared to students that might live further away.

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And

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we also recognize just generally that the geographic distribution of student-oriented housing

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is an important community policy question that extends beyond this rezoning request,

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and that all of us in the community will need to consider that in-house.

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We, you know, want to address that or how we want to handle that and prioritize that in the future.

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So we believe that discussion would be best to dress through some other focused initiative on that focus topic.

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But now back to this particular request here with the rezoning for the Winsy site.

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I have a peer on the screen, so staff, and we recommend approval of the rezoning request.

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And then you see in this other bullet here that planning commission in their July meeting they had

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to meet somebody made a motion to recommend approval the rezoning and it failed with the split

394
00:35:38,860 --> 00:35:43,140
about three to three when a commissioner was absent from the meeting.

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Thank you.

396
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Do we have any questions?

397
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The time.

398
00:35:53,620 --> 00:35:54,180
Do you have a question?

399
00:35:54,520 --> 00:35:54,920
I know.

400
00:35:55,500 --> 00:35:55,820
Okay.

401
00:35:56,960 --> 00:35:58,260
Thank you very much.

402
00:35:59,100 --> 00:36:06,000
Okay. Well, open this item up for public hearing. If anyone wishes to speak, please

403
00:36:06,000 --> 00:36:09,920
state your name and address you have five minutes before we get started.

404
00:36:12,740 --> 00:36:13,560
Before we

405
00:36:13,560 --> 00:36:22,320
get started. We have, we'll have you go first. So we can hear.

406
00:36:24,720 --> 00:36:26,240
Is the applicant going to speak?

407
00:36:26,600 --> 00:36:28,260
Yeah, we're going to have the applicant go first.

408
00:36:29,320 --> 00:36:32,600
And then we'll open it up for the rest of you.

409
00:36:32,900 --> 00:36:37,080
Now, please understand, we hear you.

410
00:36:37,280 --> 00:36:41,380
This is probably our second goal round third goal

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around four public hearing.

412
00:36:44,940 --> 00:36:48,180
So I'm trying to be very respectful,

413
00:36:49,100 --> 00:36:51,320
but if we keep hearing the same thing,

414
00:36:51,320 --> 00:36:57,160
we we didn't heard the same thing. So if you got something that you want to speak about the changes

415
00:36:59,680 --> 00:37:08,690
then that's what we need to hear. So we can be here all night or we can get through this.

416
00:37:10,220 --> 00:37:11,480
Come on up.

417
00:37:25,610 --> 00:37:29,570
Good evening Madam Mayor Todd Ray with Clark and Bradshaw on behalf of the applicant

418
00:37:30,370 --> 00:37:36,330
consistent with past public hearings on this matter, I would request from the chair, approximately 15 minutes for our presentation.

419
00:37:36,610 --> 00:37:37,490
Now we'll be the only speaker.

420
00:37:38,890 --> 00:37:41,270
No, we're not doing that.

421
00:37:41,890 --> 00:37:43,270
He can have his time.

422
00:37:44,090 --> 00:37:45,050
Thank you.

423
00:37:45,650 --> 00:37:46,030
Go ahead.

424
00:37:46,690 --> 00:37:49,190
Just give them a snider a second to have a load of the presentation.

425
00:37:50,150 --> 00:37:52,230
I should be going to just click through.

426
00:37:52,690 --> 00:37:53,390
There you go.

427
00:37:53,770 --> 00:37:54,530
Thank you.

428
00:37:57,410 --> 00:38:01,990
All right, good evening, Mayor Reed, Vice Mayor Fleming, and members of Council.

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00:38:02,590 --> 00:38:07,010
I'm Todd Ray with the firm of Clark and Bradshaw, with offices at 92 North Liberty

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00:38:07,010 --> 00:38:08,610
Street here in Harrisonburg.

431
00:38:09,310 --> 00:38:15,470
I've practiced zoning and land use law in Harrisonburg and rocking him county for 32 years

432
00:38:15,470 --> 00:38:17,630
out of the same downtown office.

433
00:38:18,230 --> 00:38:22,530
I have an unwavering commitment to the growth and vitality of this community.

434
00:38:22,530 --> 00:38:36,310
I'm proud to present this final version of the Lensie Project to you tonight for approval and it's traditionally redesigned form and lowered height fitting in well with downtown Harrisonburg.

435
00:38:37,310 --> 00:38:43,710
With me this evening is Seth Roderick, our local traffic and civil engineer with Monteverdi engineering.

436
00:38:43,710 --> 00:38:50,710
For efficiency, I will be making the applicant presentation with set available to answer questions

437
00:38:50,710 --> 00:38:53,150
on his areas of technical expertise.

438
00:38:54,470 --> 00:39:00,090
Planning staff has detailed how the Lensie application meets the comprehensive plan, downtown

439
00:39:00,090 --> 00:39:07,670
2040 plan, and the related city goals of increasing density and downtown, activating redevelopment

440
00:39:07,670 --> 00:39:13,690
areas for higher economic use, and locating sorely needed customers within walking distance

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00:39:13,690 --> 00:39:19,770
of downtown businesses. In addition to staff's consistent recommendation for approval,

442
00:39:20,730 --> 00:39:24,490
I found planning commission chairman and former mayor of laws, perspectives, and

443
00:39:24,490 --> 00:39:29,770
safeful when recommending approval of this project at multiple public hearings,

444
00:39:30,750 --> 00:39:37,710
providing well-reasoned land use rationale and city history under existing city land use documents.

445
00:39:37,710 --> 00:39:48,470
The zoning justification letter in your packet and posted for public review focuses on the revisions to the project since Council consideration in April.

446
00:39:49,450 --> 00:39:59,950
The applicant has been proactive and responsive over the past 12 months from the complete redesign of the project exterior appearance to align with downtown.

447
00:40:00,690 --> 00:40:25,750
The addition of the corner clock tower element, a unit mix providing much needed, one bedroom downtown apartments, street activating commercial space along South Main Street, cash proper commitments consistent with project generated impacts, and finally, the removal of two full stories and over 20 feet of height from the structure.

448
00:40:25,750 --> 00:40:33,070
going from 75 feet to 52 feet in direct response to community and council concerns.

449
00:40:34,210 --> 00:40:39,330
With the Lindsay's reduced profit height, the project is now below the midpoint between

450
00:40:39,330 --> 00:40:48,790
allowable R3 and B1 heights. Only 12 feet taller than by-right 40 foot R3 townhomes and

451
00:40:48,790 --> 00:40:55,150
a full floor lower than what project opponents presented in a mother architects rendering

452
00:40:55,150 --> 00:41:02,830
of a five-story building, shown at the April 2026 City Council public hearing, 52 feet

453
00:41:02,830 --> 00:41:04,050
as a good faith compromise.

454
00:41:05,990 --> 00:41:10,030
There are some in the community who will not support an urban scale apartment project

455
00:41:10,030 --> 00:41:15,230
on the Lindsay site, no matter the compromise on scale or design.

456
00:41:17,730 --> 00:41:20,710
Many have now pivoted to a large park alternative.

457
00:41:21,630 --> 00:41:26,670
But for many others, timber wolves engagement and commitment to making responsive changes

458
00:41:26,670 --> 00:41:31,430
at the project, based on a community engagement and feedback has been recognized.

459
00:41:33,030 --> 00:41:38,150
From the Lindsey family perspective, and Charlie's here this evening, having their name

460
00:41:38,150 --> 00:41:42,010
on the project is meaningful given their century-long ownership of the property.

461
00:41:42,870 --> 00:41:47,310
But the city and the Lindsey family have been discussing, redevelopment potential for this

462
00:41:47,310 --> 00:41:51,250
site for over a decade, and the family attends to see it developed.

463
00:41:52,030 --> 00:42:02,210
There's been some discussion mooted to have the city reach into its coffers, borrow and spend millions to turn the Lindsey site into a large public park and event venue.

464
00:42:03,210 --> 00:42:10,870
That's an expensive proposition, declined by the city in the past and not supported by the Lindsey family.

465
00:42:12,130 --> 00:42:20,030
In fact, there's a fantastic public park and concert venue planned for right next door and integrated with this project.

466
00:42:20,030 --> 00:42:27,910
The Buildar Park Leadership has worked tirelessly over a decade of planning and fundraising

467
00:42:27,910 --> 00:42:32,550
to make that park a reality with city support and endorsement.

468
00:42:33,110 --> 00:42:39,570
We would encourage those who desire a downtown park to contribute privately to the Buildar

469
00:42:39,570 --> 00:42:46,510
Park effort in ways not conditioned upon support or opposition to the Lindsay project.

470
00:42:47,550 --> 00:42:53,610
Even with the reduced height and unit count, the Lindsay project will generate ongoing income

471
00:42:53,610 --> 00:42:56,950
streams to the city approaching $500,000 per year.

472
00:42:57,930 --> 00:43:03,870
The type of economically impactful project is sorely needed to maintain city budgetary priorities.

473
00:43:04,770 --> 00:43:09,470
Removing the Lindsay income stream and replacing it with a part capital project and ongoing

474
00:43:09,470 --> 00:43:13,890
operational expenses was simply created additional challenges for the city budget.

475
00:43:13,890 --> 00:43:23,130
The most likely alternative use scenario, namely, R3 town homes on this site, is also much less

476
00:43:23,130 --> 00:43:25,270
fiscally beneficial to the city.

477
00:43:26,450 --> 00:43:27,530
Back to land use.

478
00:43:42,460 --> 00:43:43,040
There we go.

479
00:43:44,340 --> 00:43:48,760
This highlight by staff, the Lindsey project has been guided by the downtown 2040 plan.

480
00:43:49,360 --> 00:43:55,020
The downtown 2040 plan is the adopted city plan for downtown land use and redevelopment goals.

481
00:43:55,020 --> 00:44:01,040
And over arching all of the 2040 downtown plant is the pressing need to increase population

482
00:44:01,040 --> 00:44:03,800
within walkable distance of downtown businesses.

483
00:44:05,220 --> 00:44:10,000
Simply say to downtown needs more residents and more residential density is needed to support

484
00:44:10,000 --> 00:44:10,860
those businesses.

485
00:44:11,620 --> 00:44:16,440
The plant also recognized as pointed out by Ms. Dong that the city is running out of old buildings

486
00:44:16,440 --> 00:44:21,180
to remodel and the plant focused on areas where new and dense residential construction

487
00:44:21,180 --> 00:44:22,140
should be directed.

488
00:44:30,400 --> 00:44:35,760
South downtown, containing the Lindsey property as highlighted as one of those targeted areas

489
00:44:35,760 --> 00:44:37,220
right for reinvestment.

490
00:44:37,520 --> 00:44:41,740
To accommodate the goal of encouraging mixed use and residential developments in key clusters

491
00:44:41,740 --> 00:44:43,320
of underutilized space,

492
00:44:49,300 --> 00:44:52,780
zooming in closer to South downtown, the plan calls for integrating

493
00:44:52,780 --> 00:44:59,260
new housing close to City Hall to activate the area south of Turner, this side slide

494
00:44:59,260 --> 00:44:59,800
specifically.

495
00:45:00,000 --> 00:45:05,200
Members, urban scale, residential buildings, on the Lindsey site that could not be built under the current

496
00:45:05,200 --> 00:45:15,210
R3 zoning classification. The proposed Lindsey structure is very close in scope and scale to that

497
00:45:15,210 --> 00:45:24,470
shown in the slide, which represents adopted city planning policy. Any developer coming to the city in late

498
00:45:24,470 --> 00:45:31,070
2024 reviewing this plan would have rationally assumed that the city was encouraging urban

499
00:45:31,070 --> 00:45:36,670
scale, residential density and south downtown, with the city even displaying the Lindsey

500
00:45:36,670 --> 00:45:44,230
site as a prime example of targeted redevelopment in a VA awards presentation made by city

501
00:45:44,230 --> 00:45:45,950
economic development staff.

502
00:45:51,880 --> 00:45:55,380
I've talked extensively at the last 15 years of development patterns,

503
00:45:55,380 --> 00:45:59,800
which have pushed all this all new growth into Rockingham County near the city limits.

504
00:46:00,580 --> 00:46:04,260
As heard in the recent Peach Grove Student Housing Project's public discussion,

505
00:46:05,000 --> 00:46:09,100
and as staff comments confirm placing students closer to downtown

506
00:46:09,100 --> 00:46:12,140
in realistic walk-by distance of campus,

507
00:46:12,760 --> 00:46:17,340
and away from auto-centric corridors is an express city planning goal

508
00:46:17,340 --> 00:46:20,260
that the Lindsay Project aligns with and supports.

509
00:46:20,980 --> 00:46:22,720
As the staff report states,

510
00:46:22,720 --> 00:46:28,400
The Lindsey site is among the most appropriate locations in the city for student oriented housing.

511
00:46:29,800 --> 00:46:33,600
The Lindsey sites also want the most valuable in the city.

512
00:46:38,290 --> 00:46:44,230
adjacent to the B1 district containing by far the most valuable assessed land in the city.

513
00:46:45,090 --> 00:46:51,010
The Lindsey property should be an economic engine for the city, not a vacant space frozen in time.

514
00:46:55,880 --> 00:47:01,600
As covered by staff, the concept plan shows a project that fits neatly on the site with

515
00:47:01,600 --> 00:47:05,900
natural separation and buffering on the east and west remain in liberty streets, which

516
00:47:05,900 --> 00:47:10,760
are wide, on the north from the city hall parking lot, and the south from the Baptist

517
00:47:10,760 --> 00:47:13,520
Church parking lot and the new Paul Street extension.

518
00:47:14,660 --> 00:47:20,840
The project provides significant upgrades to bike and pedestrian connectivity through the Liberty

519
00:47:20,840 --> 00:47:27,940
street, cycle track, and by installing wider sidewalks, and public space seating in south downtown.

520
00:47:28,780 --> 00:47:33,760
Finally, a large drop-off area is designed along the Paul Street extension to serve ride

521
00:47:33,760 --> 00:47:40,040
share, delivery, and related needs for the project, moving stops and trips off of main and

522
00:47:40,040 --> 00:47:46,760
liberty streets. The applicant's architectural team has retained the updated, traditional exterior

523
00:47:46,760 --> 00:47:51,840
experience with finished colors and elements such as brick and graystone materials, town

524
00:47:51,840 --> 00:47:58,560
home elements, balconies, signage, cornices, and varied foundation materials at pedestrian

525
00:47:58,560 --> 00:48:04,480
level and a signature clock tower. The building has been reduced to the 52 foot maximum

526
00:48:04,480 --> 00:48:10,820
finished roof height with some small leeway for clock tower and roof screening via architectural

527
00:48:10,820 --> 00:48:16,740
elements. The height of the building now aligns with the height of city hall and the ice house

528
00:48:16,740 --> 00:48:24,300
south project nearby. The natural curve of Main Street and the lower height of the northeast corner

529
00:48:24,300 --> 00:48:31,220
of this building north of the travel way into the parking deck provide additional visual clearance

530
00:48:31,220 --> 00:48:39,700
for city hall. Exterior design is a subjective process. It is not governed by city ordinances

531
00:48:39,700 --> 00:48:45,800
But as is evident from the traditional redesign and the lowering of building height, the

532
00:48:45,800 --> 00:48:50,780
Lindsey Project team has listened to community feedback and has invested significant

533
00:48:50,780 --> 00:48:56,940
time and resources in the evolution of the project's appearance and size to more

534
00:48:56,940 --> 00:48:58,640
contextually fit downtown.

535
00:49:12,000 --> 00:49:16,080
I won't go through these views in any detail, Ms. Dan covered them in her presentation.

536
00:49:16,400 --> 00:49:18,160
We've all seen them posted for a while.

537
00:49:18,160 --> 00:49:24,660
in the packets and online, but this is the view from the primary corner at Paul in Maine

538
00:49:24,660 --> 00:49:30,900
with the commercial area in clock tower with a pretty wide pedestrian patio in front of that

539
00:49:30,900 --> 00:49:37,460
commercial space in the corner and running along Main Street. This is the rear building

540
00:49:37,460 --> 00:49:44,000
a scene from City Hall. You can see the reduced height of the parking garage. The muralization

541
00:49:44,000 --> 00:49:50,480
proper remains in place for cooperative work with the city and city residents to land on the

542
00:49:50,480 --> 00:49:57,800
final design. But the back of that parking deck will be covered by artwork to at least 60% of

543
00:49:57,800 --> 00:49:59,040
surface area.

544
00:50:01,230 --> 00:50:07,270
Finally, this is the Liberty Street perspective, the new Paul Street extension we come in on your right.

545
00:50:07,970 --> 00:50:18,510
This is valuable to show the cycle track, which will be installed, at about the same schedule as this building's construction, should it be approved this evening?

546
00:50:20,870 --> 00:50:26,510
I briefly discussed the project impacts that were more thoroughly covered in previous presentations in public violence.

547
00:50:26,510 --> 00:50:33,830
First, Transportation Improvements, despite the reduced size and unit count, the Lindsey continues

548
00:50:33,830 --> 00:50:40,730
to fund the full installation cost of the Paul Street Public Street Extension and sidewalks

549
00:50:40,730 --> 00:50:46,570
to replace the currently substandard and unsafe rat and street turnaround and the Warren Street

550
00:50:46,570 --> 00:50:49,590
connection that runs through the City Hall parking lot.

551
00:50:49,590 --> 00:50:56,750
The project also provides city public works directed transportation calming funding for the

552
00:50:56,750 --> 00:50:58,030
Paul Street Court award.

553
00:50:58,790 --> 00:50:59,170
Parking.

554
00:50:59,470 --> 00:51:04,750
The project continues to be designed to meet its resident parking needs within and onslaid parking

555
00:51:04,750 --> 00:51:05,370
garage.

556
00:51:06,150 --> 00:51:11,830
Timberwolf plans to charge separately for parking as an incentive to walk and bike and use alternate

557
00:51:11,830 --> 00:51:12,970
transport options.

558
00:51:13,510 --> 00:51:17,870
There are bus stops on main and liberty very close to the site today.

559
00:51:17,870 --> 00:51:21,370
The parking garage will be built over what is today's surface parking.

560
00:51:21,870 --> 00:51:24,790
We're not taking up more land for more cars.

561
00:51:24,950 --> 00:51:29,490
We're building vertically and storing the cars in that same space much more efficiently.

562
00:51:30,150 --> 00:51:36,470
And providing EV charging stations in ratios consistent with those for city public projects.

563
00:51:37,130 --> 00:51:40,830
We talked to staff and used those guidelines for those numbers.

564
00:51:41,730 --> 00:51:46,250
The removal of two levels of the parking garage to reduce structure height

565
00:51:46,250 --> 00:51:56,050
While retaining equivalent resident parking ratios means the applicant will no longer be able to provide the 65 dedicated city parking spaces in the structure.

566
00:51:56,390 --> 00:51:57,670
We've heard a lot of comments.

567
00:51:58,510 --> 00:52:06,590
We don't want to squeeze and push people into public parking outside of our property so that move was necessary to maintain those ratios.

568
00:52:06,590 --> 00:52:12,790
The project does continue to coordinate and provide improved parking solutions and circulation

569
00:52:12,790 --> 00:52:15,970
for the Harrisonburg Baptist Church parking lot,

570
00:52:16,970 --> 00:52:21,490
continue to provide a parking impact cash offer for city utilization,

571
00:52:22,470 --> 00:52:25,190
and continue to offer full-time on-site management

572
00:52:25,190 --> 00:52:29,930
to address any overflow parking concerns in real time.

573
00:52:31,530 --> 00:52:32,770
Third, affordable housing.

574
00:52:32,770 --> 00:52:38,390
During the community engagement process and past public hearings affordable housing needs

575
00:52:38,390 --> 00:52:43,770
stressed by citizens, the Lindsey team took the initiative to develop an affordable housing

576
00:52:43,770 --> 00:52:49,390
cash proper, supported by legal and financial analysis by Virginia proper solutions.

577
00:52:50,210 --> 00:52:56,750
In the absence of an affordable dwelling unit ordinance or housing trust fund, timber will

578
00:52:56,750 --> 00:53:03,010
has provided that affordability cash properly that is legally supported under existing laws

579
00:53:03,010 --> 00:53:09,570
and ordinances. Community cohesion in economic impact. The Lindsey site is

580
00:53:09,570 --> 00:53:15,290
equidistant from the main J.M.U. campus in court square, downtown businesses rely heavily

581
00:53:15,290 --> 00:53:21,570
on support from the J.M.U. community, whether it be student and family shoppers, or workers

582
00:53:21,570 --> 00:53:23,030
in their stores and restaurants.

583
00:53:26,000 --> 00:53:28,360
When the students return to town after the summer break,

584
00:53:28,700 --> 00:53:34,940
Many of these businesses give a sigh of relief and market directly and heavily to student and university

585
00:53:34,940 --> 00:53:41,280
customers as demonstrated in the attached collage and phone is for last August 2025.

586
00:53:41,940 --> 00:53:44,220
This August 2026 was a little different.

587
00:53:45,080 --> 00:53:50,600
Downtown Harrisonburg has highly inconsistent foot traffic patterns and limited parking.

588
00:53:51,480 --> 00:53:57,520
Bringing almost 500 new residents of any type within walking distance of downtown businesses

589
00:53:57,520 --> 00:54:04,500
and creating a visual waypoint to draw people from campus to downtown is invaluable.

590
00:54:07,670 --> 00:54:15,090
The budget. The city has issued precious few new residential housing permits over the past 15 years,

591
00:54:15,810 --> 00:54:19,490
and has seen little population growth over the last five.

592
00:54:22,380 --> 00:54:28,060
Broad property assessment increases have slowed, demonstrably over the last two budget cycles,

593
00:54:28,060 --> 00:54:33,780
and real estate values have largely flattened out in the current calendar year.

594
00:54:35,040 --> 00:54:41,740
In this environment, encouraging new growth to sustain city revenues becomes more necessary.

595
00:54:43,360 --> 00:54:50,060
Impactful multi-family projects will continue to locate in our growing and desirable metro area.

596
00:54:50,060 --> 00:54:57,740
But recently, these have predominantly landed in Rockingham County, just outside the city limits.

597
00:54:58,980 --> 00:54:59,960
The city modified its...

598
00:55:00,000 --> 00:55:06,220
Resonning ordinance in 2010, which had the effect of discouraging and reducing residential construction.

599
00:55:07,540 --> 00:55:12,380
I provided city staff with the historical permitting data as tracked by the federal reserve.

600
00:55:13,680 --> 00:55:23,820
Back in 2010, the city had just experienced 15 years of solid residential growth, and had no real competition from the county.

601
00:55:23,820 --> 00:55:26,320
Today, the landscape is different.

602
00:55:27,360 --> 00:55:30,560
The county has multiple growing retail areas adjacent to the city,

603
00:55:31,120 --> 00:55:34,960
with several thousand new rooftops to support and attract commercial businesses.

604
00:55:36,100 --> 00:55:42,880
JMU is embarking on a multi-billion dollar master plan to draw more private investment

605
00:55:42,880 --> 00:55:48,420
dollars and commercial businesses onto its campus in a way from downtown.

606
00:55:49,460 --> 00:56:04,680
You don't have to agree with all aspects of the Lindsay project to recognize it's strategic importance in changing these economic and land use trends back toward investment in the city center.

607
00:56:09,640 --> 00:56:14,540
What's the most realistic alternative use to timber wolves well designed apartment project?

608
00:56:15,600 --> 00:56:24,360
25 to 30 R3 town homes, up to 40 feeding height with three or four bedrooms per unit, surface

609
00:56:24,360 --> 00:56:35,540
parking, large setbacks, no commercial businesses, no proffers, no on-site management, no public

610
00:56:35,540 --> 00:56:39,280
streetscape improvements, or other cash impact trees.

611
00:56:39,280 --> 00:56:51,580
By right R3 townhomes also come with a 70% drop in assessment revenues to the city in one of its most potentially valuable economic locations.

612
00:56:52,960 --> 00:57:00,980
Townhomes are a viable project model for a developer but far from an economic engine for the city of Harrisonburg.

613
00:57:02,160 --> 00:57:08,400
We realize that the nature of compromise means that folks on all sides of this project, both

614
00:57:08,400 --> 00:57:12,500
pro and con, we had planning commissioners look because they wanted this seven-story building.

615
00:57:13,400 --> 00:57:18,720
I may not get their full desired outcomes, but we are comfortable, but the final profit

616
00:57:18,720 --> 00:57:29,580
plan represents timber will be best efforts in arriving at an economically viable and politically

617
00:57:29,580 --> 00:57:36,860
city and approving this project for the benefits it brings, to reward cooperative developer

618
00:57:36,860 --> 00:57:43,620
changes arrived that through community and staff engagement and to send a signal to those

619
00:57:43,620 --> 00:57:50,080
looking at investing in this area that the city is an attractive option and a receptive place

620
00:57:50,080 --> 00:57:57,460
for those investment dollars. The decision before you comes at the end of a very long process

621
00:57:57,460 --> 00:58:04,320
It's been contentious and challenging, but at the end of the day we've reached a constructive

622
00:58:04,320 --> 00:58:11,800
place with strikes of balance between the economic realities for the developer, meaningful

623
00:58:11,800 --> 00:58:19,280
community input, city fiscal needs, and a clear alternative development path should the

624
00:58:19,280 --> 00:58:20,400
rezoning be declined.

625
00:58:21,820 --> 00:58:27,040
If there are specific remaining concerns or questions Council would like addressed at the end

626
00:58:27,040 --> 00:58:34,220
public comment, we would appreciate the opportunity to respond. Thank you all for your time and

627
00:58:34,220 --> 00:58:40,780
patience, and we ask Council to vote in support of the Lindsay project tonight as consistent

628
00:58:40,780 --> 00:58:48,980
with staff recommendations over all city needs and existing land planning documents. Thank you.

629
00:58:54,120 --> 00:58:57,980
Yeah, we're going to go ahead and ask our questions to you now. Yes, ma'am.

630
00:58:59,420 --> 00:59:06,020
Yeah, I'm sorry, if we got your item 1G, yes, sorry.

631
00:59:06,560 --> 00:59:09,540
It says the final colors for the shoes materials

632
00:59:09,540 --> 00:59:13,240
and exact exterior specification shall be subject

633
00:59:13,240 --> 00:59:14,980
to final construction documents.

634
00:59:15,660 --> 00:59:17,260
Could you highlight?

635
00:59:18,600 --> 00:59:22,200
What I understand is that maybe after you guys

636
00:59:22,200 --> 00:59:24,060
you finish, maybe you'll change the color.

637
00:59:24,420 --> 00:59:26,000
That is not the intent.

638
00:59:26,120 --> 00:59:29,060
I think this developer has proven what you all

639
00:59:29,060 --> 00:59:33,820
for studies, what when you've asked for commitments, they've made that commitment. Now this

640
00:59:33,820 --> 00:59:38,980
general versus substantial language has been in these proffers through six public hearings now.

641
00:59:40,600 --> 00:59:46,040
I understand how someone could parse that language and come up with something, but I genuinely

642
00:59:46,040 --> 00:59:52,180
feel like there's some equity here and trust with Timber Wolf, they redesigned this building.

643
00:59:52,980 --> 00:59:58,180
This was the main part of that community engagement process last winter. They're going to build a building

644
00:59:58,180 --> 00:59:59,960
that looks like those prophets.

645
01:00:00,000 --> 01:00:06,760
Elements. That's not a weasel word to make a change and have it look somehow different. You know, developers

646
01:00:06,760 --> 01:00:14,280
having lived through COVID and now tariffs are a loop gun shy when it comes to like, oh, you should

647
01:00:14,280 --> 01:00:19,600
this style of brick and it's no longer available or that style, exact style of railing. So the

648
01:00:19,600 --> 01:00:24,800
flexibility is only meant to get around those sort of bottlenecks and challenges and it's no way

649
01:00:24,800 --> 01:00:30,460
to lessen the commitment to this project meeting up to what has been committed to the city.

650
01:00:31,760 --> 01:00:37,480
Thank you. I don't think about the heights. I understand there is like on South Maine

651
01:00:37,480 --> 01:00:43,420
is different from lover history. So if I look to theville Zoo from South Maine,

652
01:00:43,840 --> 01:00:52,200
should I see four stories and liberty? It would generally be four stories on liberty.

653
01:00:52,200 --> 01:00:54,580
Let me make this point.

654
01:00:55,280 --> 01:01:00,040
All right, City Halls, we basically say is three stories, right?

655
01:01:00,460 --> 01:01:02,160
Well, where the land falls off in the back

656
01:01:02,160 --> 01:01:04,100
and there's a basement entrance, there's a four story.

657
01:01:04,740 --> 01:01:06,740
The Ice House south is four stories,

658
01:01:07,280 --> 01:01:09,040
but to the left of the Ice House,

659
01:01:09,540 --> 01:01:11,360
there's a parking deck underneath,

660
01:01:11,900 --> 01:01:13,520
which makes it maybe five stories.

661
01:01:14,180 --> 01:01:16,680
The slope on this isn't that great, Ms. Dang.

662
01:01:18,360 --> 01:01:20,960
Detailed that, the Paul Street measurement

663
01:01:20,960 --> 01:01:29,100
is about halfway from the high point which is on South Maine and Liberty Street. So, yeah, there

664
01:01:29,100 --> 01:01:34,720
might be a little leeway where not doing step down roofs. It'll be a flat 52 feet. Now, if somebody

665
01:01:34,720 --> 01:01:40,160
wanted to really play games at this developer, they would put their entrance on South Main Street,

666
01:01:40,560 --> 01:01:46,060
designated at the high point in order to maximize that high allowance. This was done in good faith.

667
01:01:46,060 --> 01:01:50,280
And then that back corner is the driveway that goes through to the parking garage.

668
01:01:50,760 --> 01:01:56,320
And it also is the driveway that provides access to the new buildar park for Villian.

669
01:01:57,380 --> 01:02:04,800
So that will really be an entryway if it's a little bit taller based on topography.

670
01:02:05,940 --> 01:02:06,760
That's all it is.

671
01:02:06,860 --> 01:02:11,600
And since the stage will be right behind it, it'll all be screened with the landscaping from the park.

672
01:02:12,320 --> 01:02:15,680
And that's also where the electricity comes onto the site so they'll probably be

673
01:02:15,680 --> 01:02:19,000
mechanical rooms in that back corner on the street.

674
01:02:19,680 --> 01:02:23,880
One more thing, if you please go back to the slide where the Liberty

675
01:02:23,880 --> 01:02:25,040
streets.

676
01:02:28,750 --> 01:02:28,970
Yes.

677
01:02:29,350 --> 01:02:29,730
There we go.

678
01:02:30,810 --> 01:02:37,170
Do you see there's like a construction like a wall here?

679
01:02:37,490 --> 01:02:42,970
Is this part of the first floor of foundation over what do you see?

680
01:02:43,450 --> 01:02:45,790
It's actually an architectural foundation element.

681
01:02:45,790 --> 01:02:49,610
It also came out of our engagement process last December.

682
01:02:49,750 --> 01:02:54,970
You'll sort of see that's a more rough gray stone finish at your pedestrian level.

683
01:02:55,250 --> 01:02:58,670
If you look at some of the older buildings in here, somewhere where they had that limestone

684
01:02:58,670 --> 01:03:04,590
or bluestone foundation, it's sort of meant to mimic that.

685
01:03:04,870 --> 01:03:10,010
You'll see there's only four sets of windows, four floors along that section of the street.

686
01:03:10,690 --> 01:03:12,210
So it's Potto, a fair spot.

687
01:03:12,210 --> 01:03:16,870
Part of the first four or the foundation below the first four.

688
01:03:18,580 --> 01:03:19,880
So that's it.

689
01:03:20,060 --> 01:03:20,880
Yes, thank you.

690
01:03:24,870 --> 01:03:27,970
The one comment you made the signs on the street.

691
01:03:28,210 --> 01:03:32,450
If you want to show that one with the Blackboard signs from August 25.

692
01:03:32,910 --> 01:03:33,410
I think you said.

693
01:03:33,490 --> 01:03:33,870
Correct.

694
01:03:35,270 --> 01:03:38,370
You said August 2026 is different.

695
01:03:38,590 --> 01:03:38,890
What do you mean?

696
01:03:38,890 --> 01:03:39,310
No.

697
01:03:39,330 --> 01:03:41,870
I said it's not much different the signs are different.

698
01:03:42,010 --> 01:03:42,690
Oh, okay.

699
01:03:42,970 --> 01:03:46,730
On back to school week, when the students and our families are in town for movement,

700
01:03:47,210 --> 01:03:50,210
almost every downtown merchant, I shouldn't say that.

701
01:03:50,270 --> 01:03:52,590
A lot of downtown merchants put out, you know,

702
01:03:52,670 --> 01:03:55,830
these chalkboard signages, and they would attract people.

703
01:03:55,950 --> 01:03:57,130
They would attract women, parents, we can.

704
01:03:57,210 --> 01:03:59,010
They would attract them during homecoming.

705
01:03:59,770 --> 01:04:02,430
It's an important part of what makes downtown

706
01:04:02,430 --> 01:04:03,750
here some of our businesses viable.

707
01:04:04,730 --> 01:04:08,130
Well, what I was kind of wondering if maybe I was reading

708
01:04:08,130 --> 01:04:11,330
into this, that there have been a number of downtown businesses

709
01:04:11,330 --> 01:04:13,070
restaurants such as that have closed.

710
01:04:13,070 --> 01:04:21,070
So I'm hoping that, anyway, that I wondered if that's what you meant, but it wasn't, it's just that we haven't gotten to this week yet.

711
01:04:21,870 --> 01:04:27,750
The Lindsey will not solve the businesses of, you know, the problem of keeping downtown businesses open by itself.

712
01:04:28,290 --> 01:04:37,830
But it's certainly a part of the solution, and from the downtown 2040 plan, I think we'd all acknowledge that more people living closer to downtown,

713
01:04:37,830 --> 01:04:41,930
where they can walk to these businesses without trying to find parking spaces or fight

714
01:04:41,930 --> 01:04:45,110
traffic to get down here will benefit those businesses.

715
01:04:45,570 --> 01:04:46,110
Thanks.

716
01:04:51,960 --> 01:04:55,200
Let's go back to the bedrooms.

717
01:04:56,720 --> 01:04:58,760
I know we cut.

718
01:05:00,000 --> 01:05:08,220
For me, you cut the wrong bedrooms, you cut the ones on the studio's and didn't even touch the force. Correct.

719
01:05:08,860 --> 01:05:27,480
Why? By reducing the size of the building, still building a parking deck, those core student apartments were deemed necessary by a timber wolf taken two floors off the top to make it a buildable project.

720
01:05:28,240 --> 01:05:33,500
They didn't want to come with another yet another project in Harrisburg that gets approved and not built.

721
01:05:35,900 --> 01:05:36,340
Okay.

722
01:05:37,880 --> 01:05:38,780
All right, that's not a question.

723
01:05:40,080 --> 01:05:40,800
Thank you.

724
01:05:40,900 --> 01:05:41,240
Thank you.

725
01:05:41,260 --> 01:05:41,680
Thank you, Madam Mayor.

726
01:05:42,640 --> 01:05:42,900
All right.

727
01:05:43,000 --> 01:05:43,820
Anyone want to speak?

728
01:05:44,160 --> 01:05:46,460
Please take your name and address your head five minutes.

729
01:05:48,660 --> 01:05:49,020
That's enough.

730
01:05:49,060 --> 01:05:49,260
We're sorry.

731
01:05:50,780 --> 01:05:53,480
My name is Isaac Whitmer and I live on Rocky M. Drive.

732
01:05:54,620 --> 01:05:57,940
You think after the sixth meeting, getting more comfortable with this?

733
01:05:57,940 --> 01:06:00,820
Climate change is a disaster, we are not prepared for it.

734
01:06:00,920 --> 01:06:04,160
It continues to get worse with no substantial changes in sight.

735
01:06:04,720 --> 01:06:08,060
One of the ways we protect ourselves from climate change is to build communities that don't

736
01:06:08,060 --> 01:06:08,880
depend on cars.

737
01:06:09,900 --> 01:06:12,460
This project is not perfect but is a step in the right direction.

738
01:06:12,760 --> 01:06:17,480
Our downtown needs to house as many people as we can fit and tall dense buildings, because

739
01:06:17,480 --> 01:06:21,640
the future of our world depends, demands us to final turn to forms of transportation.

740
01:06:22,760 --> 01:06:27,360
As we continue year after year to make the wrong decisions regarding climate change, we are

741
01:06:27,360 --> 01:06:32,020
going to see an influx of climate refugees, our town will continue to grow and we desperately

742
01:06:32,020 --> 01:06:34,020
need the homes for everyone that lives here.

743
01:06:34,820 --> 01:06:39,000
It's important to recognize that the alternatives to this project is not an open lot and

744
01:06:39,000 --> 01:06:40,420
a park is not going to happen.

745
01:06:40,680 --> 01:06:46,680
The alternative to town homes, as Todd has mentioned, that would be worse from all manner of metrics.

746
01:06:47,200 --> 01:06:52,600
More college parties, more trash, more cars, and less places for people to stay.

747
01:06:53,460 --> 01:06:57,460
I'm disappointed that the past version of this project was scrapped for a shorter building,

748
01:06:58,080 --> 01:06:59,640
that will house even few residents.

749
01:07:00,440 --> 01:07:03,660
We as a community need to learn some lessons about the public engagement process,

750
01:07:04,660 --> 01:07:06,260
because when the state could happen this,

751
01:07:06,300 --> 01:07:09,400
the cause of this project to be even less effective does not happen again.

752
01:07:10,040 --> 01:07:12,480
Regardless, we need this project at four stories,

753
01:07:13,060 --> 01:07:15,460
just as much as we needed the past version as six.

754
01:07:16,100 --> 01:07:18,780
Short of going back and voting for the version presented in April,

755
01:07:19,300 --> 01:07:21,720
I urge you to vote in favor of this project,

756
01:07:21,720 --> 01:07:24,760
So we can build our climate, our city, in a climate forward way.

757
01:07:25,080 --> 01:07:25,340
Thank you.

758
01:07:25,400 --> 01:07:26,300
Thank you.

759
01:07:27,900 --> 01:07:28,080
Mary.

760
01:07:29,820 --> 01:07:33,020
Would you mind asking folks to please stop talking,

761
01:07:33,760 --> 01:07:37,220
because every time someone is trying to say something,

762
01:07:37,600 --> 01:07:39,720
and I think what everyone has to say is very important.

763
01:07:39,820 --> 01:07:40,980
I'm interested in this to me.

764
01:07:41,360 --> 01:07:42,920
I find it very irritating.

765
01:07:43,980 --> 01:07:47,200
And I often miss parts of sentences because people are laughing

766
01:07:47,200 --> 01:07:49,420
and they're talking and having full conversations.

767
01:07:50,040 --> 01:07:51,980
And I just think that we're all adults here.

768
01:07:51,980 --> 01:07:54,480
And we need to respect each other when they're talking.

769
01:07:55,120 --> 01:07:55,600
Absolutely.

770
01:07:56,540 --> 01:07:57,720
I love you.

771
01:07:57,720 --> 01:07:58,780
We heard her.

772
01:07:58,780 --> 01:08:01,880
My name is Stephen Cites, I live on Westmartistry.

773
01:08:02,960 --> 01:08:06,960
And for all this to go on, I don't think Harrisburg needs this building.

774
01:08:07,340 --> 01:08:14,700
I think if you want to revitalize the built-a-tool story, shopping mall, have a place to

775
01:08:14,700 --> 01:08:20,340
sell their beer in one way or whatever, and I really don't think I need a bicycle right

776
01:08:20,340 --> 01:08:22,840
go up literally, straight with all this work, neither.

777
01:08:24,080 --> 01:08:29,360
And I think if you want to spend my tax dollars, I think counter-club road needs to be

778
01:08:29,360 --> 01:08:36,160
redecorated, and I also think that the new 33 bridge and stuff you need to post signs

779
01:08:36,820 --> 01:08:41,700
because people out there, they don't know what lane to get in, I think you need to have a

780
01:08:41,700 --> 01:08:46,400
high sign up where people could see it when to come off the interstate, they know what lane

781
01:08:46,400 --> 01:08:52,800
be in because I was out that road today and it's a mess out there you know the new road looks

782
01:08:52,800 --> 01:08:58,080
great I've done I've heard a man tell me that somebody already tried to drive their vehicle

783
01:08:58,080 --> 01:09:04,380
on the walking part of that and he's just told me that today that he heard that you know how

784
01:09:04,380 --> 01:09:15,560
that goes and but I don't think I don't think that building needs to doors down how or the

785
01:09:15,560 --> 01:09:23,200
college all up and down. I mean, it's out of hand. I think. And also, I got a problem with

786
01:09:23,200 --> 01:09:28,420
him loud cars and loud muffers all the time today and night coming up by the house of

787
01:09:28,420 --> 01:09:34,880
pop and cracking and, you know, that's, that's a noise violation of my book. Thank you.

788
01:09:35,020 --> 01:09:37,960
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. That's

789
01:09:41,000 --> 01:09:46,420
good evening. Sorry, I'm nervous. My name is Jennifer

790
01:09:47,040 --> 01:09:52,420
I live on Campbell Street, I am currently a stay-at-home mom, and I'm a registered nurse.

791
01:09:53,100 --> 01:09:58,540
And nurses are taught something infatically from the very beginning, if it isn't documented, it wasn't done.

792
01:10:00,000 --> 01:10:06,780
And I think that's a pretty good practice for the situation too, because if it matters, it needs to be put in writing.

793
01:10:08,080 --> 01:10:15,440
Because tonight you are not voting on a presentation and architects rendering or what you've been told the developer intends to do.

794
01:10:15,820 --> 01:10:23,840
For all we know the developer has assigned the contract to another developer, or plans on getting the rezoning approved and then flipping it to the next guy.

795
01:10:24,800 --> 01:10:31,660
You are voting on what is legally preferred, so in plain language, this is what a yes vote means.

796
01:10:32,100 --> 01:10:41,780
A yes vote means agreeing to a 52 foot tall building and 52 foot tall parking garage and an extension of tall street on the Liberty property.

797
01:10:42,680 --> 01:10:48,320
A yes vote means agreeing to 180 units and 440 bedrooms.

798
01:10:49,620 --> 01:10:56,440
77% of those in the for-bed for-bath configuration, a configuration that city staff itself has

799
01:10:56,440 --> 01:10:58,480
acknowledged typically serves college students.

800
01:10:58,920 --> 01:11:03,700
A yes vote means agreeing to just 320 parking spaces for 440 bedrooms.

801
01:11:04,660 --> 01:11:10,780
A yes vote means agreeing to a modest 2,500 to 5,000 square foot commercial component,

802
01:11:10,980 --> 01:11:13,480
while calling the overall development mixed use.

803
01:11:13,480 --> 01:11:19,100
A yes vote means agreeing to a two-way extension of Paul Street, despite neighborhood concerns,

804
01:11:19,760 --> 01:11:23,800
and a different street connection envisioned in the downtown 2040 plan.

805
01:11:24,540 --> 01:11:30,560
A yes vote means accepting cash-profers for traffic calming, parking enforcement, and affordable housing.

806
01:11:31,160 --> 01:11:35,380
Money intended to mitigate impacts associated with this project.

807
01:11:36,220 --> 01:11:42,060
A yes vote means agreeing to a project whose attractive renderings are not legally guaranteed.

808
01:11:43,620 --> 01:11:49,200
Final colors, finishes, materials, and exterior specs remains subject to final construction

809
01:11:49,200 --> 01:11:54,120
plans, site plan, approval, and material availability, the charming clock.

810
01:11:55,180 --> 01:12:01,080
The cute sign, the brick, the graystone, and the garage mural are not guaranteed.

811
01:12:02,360 --> 01:12:06,400
If those are things that matter to you and your constituents, are they in writing?

812
01:12:06,400 --> 01:12:13,520
A yes vote means agreeing to an ambiguous property management proper that does not explicitly

813
01:12:13,520 --> 01:12:16,400
require a full-time onsite property manager.

814
01:12:17,160 --> 01:12:24,360
It requires a third party management company, a local representative who is, quote, available

815
01:12:24,360 --> 01:12:31,160
to respond, and, quote, onsite staffing that may include a property manager.

816
01:12:32,240 --> 01:12:35,040
Not shall include may include.

817
01:12:35,040 --> 01:12:40,600
There is no stated minimal staffing level, no required hours of coverage and no explicit

818
01:12:40,600 --> 01:12:42,980
requirement that a property manager be on site.

819
01:12:43,720 --> 01:12:49,180
Yet on-site management has been presented as part of the answer to overflow parking problems

820
01:12:49,180 --> 01:12:50,640
noise and other concerns.

821
01:12:51,400 --> 01:12:56,720
If a full-time on-site property manager is truly part of the deal, putting it in writing.

822
01:12:57,580 --> 01:13:03,740
Because the current carefully-worded profile reads as follows, quote, on-site staffing

823
01:13:03,740 --> 01:13:05,680
in Harrisonburg, Virginia.

824
01:13:06,220 --> 01:13:08,200
Notice that it doesn't say on-site staffing

825
01:13:08,200 --> 01:13:09,980
at the Lindsey slash link.

826
01:13:10,800 --> 01:13:12,960
So please vote on what is legally preferred

827
01:13:12,960 --> 01:13:14,840
not on what we are being told.

828
01:13:15,880 --> 01:13:18,060
I guess that means approving yet another student housing

829
01:13:18,060 --> 01:13:20,300
project is jammed you itself prepares

830
01:13:20,300 --> 01:13:22,740
to house thousands more students on campus

831
01:13:22,740 --> 01:13:25,180
from remote off campus complexes

832
01:13:25,180 --> 01:13:28,160
and they are welcome to come visit downtown.

833
01:13:28,980 --> 01:13:31,320
Jamies concentrating student density

834
01:13:31,320 --> 01:13:36,900
around walkable infrastructure specifically designed for students, dining, recreation,

835
01:13:37,560 --> 01:13:42,540
transit, medical care, student services and public safety, hopefully which will reduce some

836
01:13:42,540 --> 01:13:48,540
of the policing burden on our own HPD. Being a student-friendly city does not mean that every

837
01:13:48,540 --> 01:13:55,160
student housing proposal represents good land policy. And a yes vote means approving this project,

838
01:13:55,340 --> 01:13:59,920
knowing that here's the work already struggles to hold absentee and invest our owners accountable

839
01:13:59,920 --> 01:14:05,760
When properties become neglected or blighted, we know how student housing properties have

840
01:14:05,760 --> 01:14:06,860
aged in the city.

841
01:14:07,840 --> 01:14:10,840
James, you is planning intentionally for its population.

842
01:14:11,620 --> 01:14:17,840
Harrisonburg should plan intentionally for ours, a multi-cultural multi-ethnic multi-generational

843
01:14:17,840 --> 01:14:25,200
city for all, like the goals you listed in your city council 2045 vision statement.

844
01:14:25,200 --> 01:14:31,620
So, before you vote tonight, separate the renderings from the legally enforceable

845
01:14:31,620 --> 01:14:39,240
prophets, separate developer demand from community need, separate promised revenue from

846
01:14:39,240 --> 01:14:47,340
the land use decision, and separate the fear of what might be built from the merit of

847
01:14:47,340 --> 01:14:53,540
the rezoning actually before you, planning commission did not recommend this rezoning

848
01:14:53,540 --> 01:14:58,820
your time, either. Thank you, should say council. Thank you. Thank you.

849
01:15:05,360 --> 01:15:27,600
Hi, my name is Sherry Good, and I live on Campbell Street. I walked here tonight as I always walked to the farmers market every Saturday, and I just want to qualify by saying Mary Lindsay was my father's first cousin. I grew up with Mary Bill and Bucky Lindsay. I've known him all my life, and this is not the slink Lindsay is not what they would want.

850
01:15:29,740 --> 01:15:34,580
The drawings that we saw tonight for the alternatives were so unimaginative.

851
01:15:34,580 --> 01:15:43,420
And like, as if that's the only solution is to have all that individual parking, you could put up several, I'm a designer.

852
01:15:44,460 --> 01:15:45,820
That's the thing, you didn't use local.

853
01:15:46,080 --> 01:15:53,980
Timberable comes in from Colorado, of a drawing from someone from Syracuse, and with no transparency tries to show us what we want.

854
01:15:54,180 --> 01:15:55,340
We don't want that.

855
01:15:55,940 --> 01:16:02,660
I can think of so many more creative ways, yes housing, no to that giant slab.

856
01:16:03,060 --> 01:16:08,060
We can do so much better, the park's already in line, we can build our own park.

857
01:16:09,080 --> 01:16:13,720
As far as climate change, I live on Campbell Street, right on the corner is the Greek

858
01:16:13,720 --> 01:16:22,180
Brad House, it's time. Well knows, I've sender pictures of the trash, a lot, and call about

859
01:16:22,180 --> 01:16:29,140
the noise disturbances a lot. Those kids up there on the corner, I can tell you right

860
01:16:29,140 --> 01:16:33,580
now they're eight cars parked back there when school those in the session, scapegoat

861
01:16:33,580 --> 01:16:39,900
is class, those cars are over there at the parking lots, they do not walk. They don't walk

862
01:16:39,900 --> 01:16:46,780
they drive, they'll be empty. So just to put the little stars on the map to show how close it is,

863
01:16:47,040 --> 01:16:52,580
I would walk, but they don't, they drive. So I just think we can do so much better and I just don't

864
01:16:52,580 --> 01:16:59,780
think we need Timberwolf Colorado with a drawing from Syracuse. Go local, I could draw, I could

865
01:16:59,780 --> 01:17:03,000
draw you tonight a better plan. Thank you. Thank you.

866
01:17:09,100 --> 01:17:11,840
I'm Sarah, like D. I live on Paul Street and

867
01:17:11,840 --> 01:17:13,100
I'm against the rezoning.

868
01:17:14,200 --> 01:17:17,780
I wanted to first point out the misleading map

869
01:17:17,780 --> 01:17:20,760
about the walkability as the students

870
01:17:20,760 --> 01:17:22,880
are not actually walking to the hotel medicine,

871
01:17:23,420 --> 01:17:25,380
which is where that star is, of course.

872
01:17:25,820 --> 01:17:30,460
Students walking to the business or to East Campus,

873
01:17:31,140 --> 01:17:32,300
that's not going to happen.

874
01:17:33,080 --> 01:17:36,220
Anybody that works in student life or in parking services

875
01:17:36,220 --> 01:17:39,700
at JMU will tell you that students are driving

876
01:17:39,700 --> 01:17:46,660
to park on campus. I'm not against housing downtown. I'm against more student housing

877
01:17:46,660 --> 01:17:52,540
downtown, however, and as has already been stated, the 80% for bedroom, for bathroom,

878
01:17:52,880 --> 01:17:59,340
layout, is specifically designed for luxury student housing, young professionals and families.

879
01:18:00,360 --> 01:18:05,560
Do not want to live in a building with 80% student housing. Downtown certainly doesn't need an

880
01:18:05,560 --> 01:18:09,320
fusion of students right across the street from the fortiewicz building.

881
01:18:10,660 --> 01:18:14,980
Students who can afford the highest end of luxury student housing market are not going

882
01:18:14,980 --> 01:18:20,140
to be working in the downtown businesses or probably have any side job whatsoever.

883
01:18:20,880 --> 01:18:25,960
They will not be the ones paying for their apartments, for the parking, for the ride shares,

884
01:18:26,460 --> 01:18:28,020
or even for their food deliveries.

885
01:18:28,920 --> 01:18:38,480
I think they expanded Park idea is one great idea that's been brought before you, not only for downtown businesses, but also for tourism.

886
01:18:39,780 --> 01:18:53,080
Alternatively, if you want housing there, why not target audience or why not target an older audience, retirees, or young professionals who would be a better next than putting a largely student there,

887
01:18:53,080 --> 01:18:55,340
and would provide money to downtown businesses,

888
01:18:56,220 --> 01:19:00,180
not just Billy Jackson and Jack Brown's for 12 months of the year.

889
01:19:01,420 --> 01:19:03,900
There's surely other ways that we'll profit

890
01:19:03,900 --> 01:19:06,780
and enrich our community and our businesses,

891
01:19:07,440 --> 01:19:10,840
and not only profit the developer and their local representatives.

892
01:19:11,620 --> 01:19:13,100
Thank you.

893
01:19:18,530 --> 01:19:19,790
Hello, my name is Nicole.

894
01:19:21,690 --> 01:19:25,250
I guess my question is what does our downtown need

895
01:19:25,250 --> 01:19:26,570
and what does our community need?

896
01:19:26,570 --> 01:19:30,170
And this is a kind of niche thought that I've had,

897
01:19:30,650 --> 01:19:34,130
but as healthcare is changing and as the boomers are retiring,

898
01:19:34,470 --> 01:19:37,390
we are losing healthcare providers.

899
01:19:38,190 --> 01:19:41,650
And as Centair has understaffed in multiple departments.

900
01:19:42,290 --> 01:19:44,910
And they have difficulty hiring here in the valley.

901
01:19:45,110 --> 01:19:46,270
I think as I hit and jump,

902
01:19:46,610 --> 01:19:48,650
I'm not here originally from here and I've loved it.

903
01:19:48,670 --> 01:19:49,870
I don't ever want to leave.

904
01:19:50,570 --> 01:19:53,170
But they have difficulty getting these young professionals

905
01:19:53,170 --> 01:19:55,650
to move here and start a family and stay.

906
01:19:55,650 --> 01:19:58,970
So my question is, don't they go downtown? Are they going to see?

907
01:20:00,000 --> 01:20:07,460
Hundreds of college students, or are they going to see a place where they can go downtown for dinner with their family, with their friends, with their spouse.

908
01:20:08,120 --> 01:20:16,160
And so I encourage a decision that would grow our community in multiple ways, long-term, and what does.

909
01:20:16,740 --> 01:20:23,240
And I agree with you, Mayor Reed, it was the proportion of student housing in that building.

910
01:20:23,240 --> 01:20:30,700
What if this was geared towards our community and think of these young nurse practitioners, these young nurses, these young doctors?

911
01:20:31,140 --> 01:20:36,120
They would love to live there and can we push for that 5,000 square foot commercial use?

912
01:20:36,280 --> 01:20:39,600
That's going to draw more people in from other places into downtown.

913
01:20:39,760 --> 01:20:41,640
I have a friend who won't go downtown.

914
01:20:42,280 --> 01:20:45,140
I'm a state home mom, she doesn't want to drive in, she doesn't know where to park.

915
01:20:45,160 --> 01:20:46,520
I literally drive her downtown.

916
01:20:47,140 --> 01:20:50,560
I come in every week and take my daughter to the dance, I meet friends for coffee.

917
01:20:51,160 --> 01:20:53,520
I'm just thinking about what our community needs.

918
01:20:53,760 --> 01:20:54,940
We love our JMU students.

919
01:20:55,280 --> 01:20:56,840
They are a part of our community as well.

920
01:20:57,260 --> 01:20:58,300
But they come and go.

921
01:20:58,720 --> 01:21:01,420
I plan to be here for the rest of my life.

922
01:21:01,580 --> 01:21:02,600
And I'm not from here.

923
01:21:02,860 --> 01:21:05,260
And I want to grow our downtown to be a community.

924
01:21:05,780 --> 01:21:10,280
That's beautiful and vibrant and not just for the college students.

925
01:21:10,440 --> 01:21:12,480
And so maybe if there's a way that you have some leverage

926
01:21:12,480 --> 01:21:15,720
with legality of maybe pushing for more housing.

927
01:21:16,240 --> 01:21:18,520
But I do agree that if I was a young professional,

928
01:21:18,520 --> 01:21:27,720
I don't think I'd want to live in a building with 80% college students such as, so I'm not sure if there's a way to encourage that that would be better for the people who live here full time.

929
01:21:28,720 --> 01:21:28,880
Thank you.

930
01:21:28,880 --> 01:21:29,160
Thank you.

931
01:21:34,140 --> 01:21:35,340
Hi. My name's Sunny.

932
01:21:36,420 --> 01:21:39,940
I am a former student of JMU, Current Towney.

933
01:21:40,860 --> 01:21:44,100
I wanted to discuss with you primarily the differences.

934
01:21:44,520 --> 01:21:51,060
I remember, you know, we've all kind of been at this for a long time, but there have been changes made to that plan that they provided.

935
01:21:51,060 --> 01:21:59,200
and I don't necessarily think that they are really getting at what we need as a community.

936
01:21:59,880 --> 01:22:07,040
Number one, a giant parking garage is not an indication of planning on reducing car use in the

937
01:22:07,040 --> 01:22:20,880
city. I also don't believe that as it's been discussed primarily student housing is going to

938
01:22:20,880 --> 01:22:30,980
I was one of them at one point, although I always cleaned up after myself, and I think it's very important that we all focus on what happens

939
01:22:31,880 --> 01:22:42,840
as this is being built and after. A lot of money is going to go into maintaining the rest of the public image of Harrison Berg as a construction

940
01:22:42,840 --> 01:22:49,960
starts and as it's been discussed we don't know exactly who will be doing that

941
01:22:49,960 --> 01:22:55,000
management we don't know exactly who will be taking care of our city in the

942
01:22:55,000 --> 01:23:01,540
meantime as everything turns into a huge mess while jam you is planning on

943
01:23:01,540 --> 01:23:07,120
building and actively building their own housing and I do not live right

944
01:23:07,120 --> 01:23:12,380
next to downtown I would love to live in downtown this is not a project for me

945
01:23:12,380 --> 01:23:19,380
I don't have the kind of money to live in, you know, $1,000 a month rent places.

946
01:23:19,920 --> 01:23:33,240
And frankly, I think that the $70,000 profit cash bonus for a quote unquote affordable housing is an insult to the town.

947
01:23:33,420 --> 01:23:39,380
I think it's absurd, $70,000 will do just about nothing going towards affordable housing in the long term.

948
01:23:39,380 --> 01:23:45,720
And I don't know, if that's what it comes down to, if the

949
01:23:45,720 --> 01:23:49,580
proffers or what we're thinking of, more can be done.

950
01:23:58,020 --> 01:23:58,060
Hi.

951
01:23:58,200 --> 01:23:59,340
I'm Valerie Salfaro.

952
01:23:59,360 --> 01:24:00,920
I live at 6-11, Austria.

953
01:24:01,400 --> 01:24:04,700
And the first thing I want to mention, because I know we're all here and I know it's late,

954
01:24:05,180 --> 01:24:09,200
is you all are getting paid to be here, you all are getting paid to be here, and none of

955
01:24:09,200 --> 01:24:11,100
these people are getting paid to be here.

956
01:24:11,300 --> 01:24:11,440
Right.

957
01:24:11,440 --> 01:24:15,660
And they're all here offering their valuable time, which I'll tell you something about

958
01:24:15,660 --> 01:24:16,520
this project.

959
01:24:16,520 --> 01:24:25,880
Right, that we are all interested in we care and a lot of the people in this audience care in ways that it doesn't seem like you're paying much attention to.

960
01:24:26,080 --> 01:24:30,520
I'm a political scientist and I look at this and think if there's so much community interest,

961
01:24:31,120 --> 01:24:35,340
why aren't you doing a public opinion poll? Why aren't you finding out what your constituents want?

962
01:24:35,660 --> 01:24:38,980
Why aren't you finding out where we want our housing priorities to be?

963
01:24:38,980 --> 01:24:43,080
And I understand the claim that this is supposed to help students, but as many people

964
01:24:43,080 --> 01:24:46,240
are pointed out, campus isn't just mainstream.

965
01:24:46,720 --> 01:24:49,980
Campus is all over the place. This isn't more drivable.

966
01:24:50,800 --> 01:24:55,540
This new proposal cuts down on parking spaces, cuts down on bike spaces.

967
01:24:55,720 --> 01:24:59,960
There are what 14 bike storage spaces for building this side.

968
01:25:00,000 --> 01:25:03,180
This isn't any attempt to deal with the environment.

969
01:25:04,380 --> 01:25:11,040
James, future enrollment and the thing I think that we're not talking about is a large part of that isn't going to be undergraduate either.

970
01:25:11,560 --> 01:25:19,060
James, you would like to go R1 and go R1 is usually 25 to 35 percent graduate students, so we're talking about adults.

971
01:25:19,680 --> 01:25:24,160
Those people might have children. Those people are not going to be interested in this building either.

972
01:25:24,860 --> 01:25:29,760
When I look at this project, we shouldn't even be wasting our time on this conversation.

973
01:25:30,000 --> 01:25:33,960
compared to the earlier speaker who is talking about health care in this community.

974
01:25:34,540 --> 01:25:39,540
We're wasting our time talking about how to generate profits for this developer for a piece of

975
01:25:39,540 --> 01:25:44,580
property that we all don't necessarily feel should be put to that particular news.

976
01:25:45,080 --> 01:25:50,920
So I'm going to suggest that you just say no today and the reason for that is because if you say no,

977
01:25:51,200 --> 01:25:57,260
you can revisit this plan. If you say yes, you cannot revisit this plan and we are all stuck.

978
01:25:57,260 --> 01:26:03,500
I think the proposal isn't driven by community need, if driven by maximizing profits for

979
01:26:03,500 --> 01:26:08,580
the developer, that subsidy for low income housing, if it were sincere, it would be

980
01:26:08,580 --> 01:26:11,500
section A vouchers for this building, and it's not.

981
01:26:11,980 --> 01:26:17,000
There isn't anything about this proposal that directly generates affordable housing.

982
01:26:17,600 --> 01:26:20,020
It's not even practical for students.

983
01:26:20,340 --> 01:26:24,300
Being your campus doesn't mean you're near your classes, you're near the grocery store,

984
01:26:24,300 --> 01:26:30,300
near your doctor or anywhere else that you have to drive to, it's just completely being ignored

985
01:26:30,300 --> 01:26:36,540
by the developer. And so what I encouraged is for you to actually try to find out what

986
01:26:36,540 --> 01:26:43,020
the public thinks before you make a decision and don't say it to this proposal today. Thank you.

987
01:26:48,710 --> 01:26:55,750
Good evening, Mary. Council. My name is Peter Denby. I have my family live on Monticello Avenue

988
01:26:55,750 --> 01:27:00,910
just off Franklin Street. My wife and I are both products of J.M.U. and Proud Alums.

989
01:27:02,270 --> 01:27:06,830
And I have a business at the intersection of North Liberty and West Market where we restored

990
01:27:06,830 --> 01:27:12,170
and saved the West's seed building and that business is home to over a hundred now, other

991
01:27:12,170 --> 01:27:20,770
small businesses that shop eat drink and enjoy downtown. I respect it at the same time, do not

992
01:27:20,770 --> 01:27:25,110
in your position, and I thank you very much for your service to this city.

993
01:27:26,110 --> 01:27:31,250
I am very proud to live in a city where we can have respectful discourse, and I believe

994
01:27:31,250 --> 01:27:35,410
that everyone here does have the best interest of this town in their hearts.

995
01:27:36,410 --> 01:27:39,670
I am here to support this project and support the lensi.

996
01:27:39,830 --> 01:27:45,670
I feel that the developers have listened and responded to the voiced concerns, and while

997
01:27:45,670 --> 01:27:51,550
to prefer the original version, they are presenting a shovel ready opportunity that supports

998
01:27:51,550 --> 01:27:58,570
the comprehensive plan and still supports the 2040 plan. This project brings badly needed

999
01:27:58,570 --> 01:28:06,150
density to our downtown, even in its current configuration. And density equals dollars and those

1000
01:28:06,150 --> 01:28:12,550
dollars are spent at our downtown businesses. This businesses create the vibrancy and the magic

1001
01:28:12,550 --> 01:28:14,850
that makes downtown Harrisonburg special,

1002
01:28:15,430 --> 01:28:17,370
and you can't have one without the other.

1003
01:28:19,770 --> 01:28:21,850
And for those that feel that the downtown businesses

1004
01:28:21,850 --> 01:28:23,550
are doing well enough as is,

1005
01:28:23,890 --> 01:28:26,510
I encourage you to ask those proprietors their perspective,

1006
01:28:26,990 --> 01:28:28,590
and remember those that have closed,

1007
01:28:29,690 --> 01:28:32,030
and none of them are going to tell you

1008
01:28:32,030 --> 01:28:33,430
that they'd rather be less successful

1009
01:28:33,430 --> 01:28:35,970
or stress a little less in the evenings

1010
01:28:35,970 --> 01:28:38,170
as they're paying their bills and making payroll.

1011
01:28:39,690 --> 01:28:41,570
Then city also equals tax dollars.

1012
01:28:42,050 --> 01:28:44,070
Above and beyond the additional taxes generated

1013
01:28:44,070 --> 01:28:50,850
by the spending of the future Lindsey residences, and far more tax dollars than any other

1014
01:28:50,850 --> 01:28:56,470
use of that space can generate. I see this being reinvested in our town, in our city,

1015
01:28:57,090 --> 01:29:02,750
with street scraping and programs that bolster the downtown's vibrancy. We've worked too

1016
01:29:02,750 --> 01:29:08,790
hard to revitalize this downtown and get to where we are to turn our nose up at an opportunity

1017
01:29:08,790 --> 01:29:14,870
like this. I encourage you to please vote for the small businesses that are the lifeblood

1018
01:29:14,870 --> 01:29:22,170
of our downtown for more city revenue and for a healthy downtown that is moving gracefully into

1019
01:29:22,170 --> 01:29:27,850
the future versus being dragged, kicking and screaming and clinging to the past. Thank you.

1020
01:29:36,420 --> 01:29:59,380
May your vice mayor council, Elizabeth Swallow, I work at I live at 45 East Fairview and I have brought my, this is a sheep, I know it doesn't look like a sheep but pretend it's a sheep because we're dealing with a wolf and there's a fairy tale about that, right?

1021
01:30:00,720 --> 01:30:12,360
And we learned tonight that the sheep's clothing came off, and we now have the wolf. We now have a J.M.U. dorm.

1022
01:30:14,550 --> 01:30:27,840
We've listened to people speak eloquently about businesses. There are those of us also who are concerned about the gateway to Harrisonburg.

1023
01:30:30,150 --> 01:30:32,770
They're not mutually exclusive. You can have both.

1024
01:30:33,690 --> 01:30:36,770
You need downtown as a destination.

1025
01:30:38,470 --> 01:30:39,730
What makes a destination?

1026
01:30:41,410 --> 01:30:42,710
We know what it is.

1027
01:30:43,090 --> 01:30:44,070
It's been done elsewhere.

1028
01:30:44,770 --> 01:30:48,190
Charlottesville, Browetto, Winchester, Lexington.

1029
01:30:49,910 --> 01:30:50,610
Oh, wait a minute.

1030
01:30:50,750 --> 01:30:51,790
We don't need a road trip.

1031
01:30:52,130 --> 01:30:53,230
You can go to Bridgewater.

1032
01:30:54,310 --> 01:30:55,530
You can go to Elkton.

1033
01:30:55,710 --> 01:30:56,530
You can go to Dayton.

1034
01:30:57,670 --> 01:30:58,930
Yes, it's the businesses.

1035
01:30:58,930 --> 01:31:02,130
but it's also what brings people down town.

1036
01:31:03,110 --> 01:31:08,610
It would be a park because the park would be for everyone.

1037
01:31:10,190 --> 01:31:11,270
How would it work?

1038
01:31:12,870 --> 01:31:17,210
You would have, well, you would have granny

1039
01:31:17,210 --> 01:31:21,670
and you would have my granddaughter, purple writing hood.

1040
01:31:22,150 --> 01:31:24,990
And we always get together, at least once a month.

1041
01:31:24,990 --> 01:31:32,750
She comes to my house, we walk downtown, we eat dinner, we have ice cream, she has a latte.

1042
01:31:33,590 --> 01:31:42,130
And we go to the popcorn store to load up with popcorn because we're going to see the free movie at the downtown park.

1043
01:31:45,040 --> 01:31:49,860
I use the park when I go to the library, I sit in the park and read my books.

1044
01:31:50,340 --> 01:31:54,880
When I volunteer at the church, I use the park for contemplation and prayer.

1045
01:31:54,880 --> 01:32:02,960
My elderly neighbor, I drive her downtown because she's blind and there's a special part

1046
01:32:02,960 --> 01:32:11,720
of the park that is raised beds and they're scented. Purple, my purple riding hood

1047
01:32:11,720 --> 01:32:19,020
grand quarter, she goes to the park because she's doing her student teaching. So her

1048
01:32:19,020 --> 01:32:24,620
students come downtown to the Discovery Museum and they go to the park. There's a special

1049
01:32:24,620 --> 01:32:32,500
part of the park for her students. They have autism. This is special autism park for kids.

1050
01:32:34,000 --> 01:32:43,080
And we all love the dog park at the park. So there's something for everyone. My granddaughter

1051
01:32:43,080 --> 01:32:49,620
has a little sister through the big brothers, big sisters. And she and her little go to the park

1052
01:32:51,120 --> 01:32:56,500
And they browse downtown and they have something to eat.

1053
01:32:56,980 --> 01:32:59,860
They kick around a soccer ball, they meet their friends.

1054
01:33:00,640 --> 01:33:05,440
When I sing with singing grannies, we have our rehearsal in the park.

1055
01:33:05,700 --> 01:33:07,740
Then we go downtown and have something to eat.

1056
01:33:07,940 --> 01:33:09,160
We browse the stores.

1057
01:33:09,880 --> 01:33:11,320
We use downtown.

1058
01:33:11,520 --> 01:33:12,880
It's a destination.

1059
01:33:13,560 --> 01:33:16,840
Not only for everyone who lives here, students included,

1060
01:33:16,840 --> 01:33:24,480
but tourists, we know it works and it's viable for the businesses and it's

1061
01:33:24,480 --> 01:33:34,380
viable for everyone and it preserves the gateway to Harrisonburg. If a business just

1062
01:33:34,380 --> 01:33:46,740
focuses on JMU students, they're here in largest numbers seven months out of the

1063
01:33:46,740 --> 01:33:54,080
are greatly reduced, which means of course that we're able to drive around town, but we know

1064
01:33:54,080 --> 01:34:00,840
that the students are important. We know that football is important. There are exactly

1065
01:34:00,840 --> 01:34:02,680
six home games.

1066
01:34:05,590 --> 01:34:11,670
We can have both. We can have a park. We can have revenue. We can have a vibrant

1067
01:34:11,670 --> 01:34:19,350
downtown. We don't have to be sheepish about our dreams, our fairy tales. They can come

1068
01:34:19,350 --> 01:34:26,590
through. There are people who are willing to donate, give big bucks to buy the land,

1069
01:34:27,650 --> 01:34:34,510
to do the park for everyone. It could be your legacy.

1070
01:34:37,940 --> 01:34:41,520
We could all benefit forever. Think

1071
01:34:41,520 --> 01:34:48,820
of New York without Central Park at one minute. Think of Washington without the mall.

1072
01:34:49,940 --> 01:34:52,440
It's possible to do this.

1073
01:34:55,900 --> 01:34:59,960
It doesn't have to be just a fairy tale. There it is.

1074
01:35:00,000 --> 01:35:02,140
This is a better way.

1075
01:35:04,800 --> 01:35:05,380
Go sheep.

1076
01:35:12,530 --> 01:35:36,530
Good evening. My name is Martian McGrath and I'm here on behalf of my husband, John McGrath as well. I want to thank you for listening to us again and again. And I also want to commend the developer for trying to lower the impact of the building, but they miss the point.

1077
01:35:36,530 --> 01:35:44,330
You know, we need more people like ourselves, my husband, and I would love going downtown.

1078
01:35:44,730 --> 01:35:50,450
We have so many friends that went to retire, and this is something that's been said over and over again.

1079
01:35:50,650 --> 01:35:59,330
We need housing for young professionals, and for retirees who are here 100% of the time, not for students.

1080
01:35:59,690 --> 01:36:04,570
And I think the developer missed that message that we've been trying to get through.

1081
01:36:04,570 --> 01:36:13,170
And we also agree with your comments that this is a big decision.

1082
01:36:15,730 --> 01:36:33,450
And when you, if you approve this, you can't go whoops and 20 years from now has this deteriorating monolith that has not met the expectations of the citizens in this town, the city of Harrisburg.

1083
01:36:33,450 --> 01:36:55,090
We also want to think that this building compromises the historical integrity as you walk in and our designation as a historical site because everybody's talking so much I'm not going to say anymore but we hope that you will vote against this project.

1084
01:36:55,090 --> 01:37:05,650
We can, we do support urban, but you know, density, we need that, but this is not, this is

1085
01:37:05,650 --> 01:37:08,550
me missing the mark of what we really need.

1086
01:37:08,790 --> 01:37:12,190
I would appreciate your attention and your this tough decision.

1087
01:37:12,830 --> 01:37:13,430
Thank you.

1088
01:37:19,190 --> 01:37:22,710
Hello, my name is Lee Evans, and I live at 1150 Lincolnshire.

1089
01:37:23,510 --> 01:37:24,170
Thank you all.

1090
01:37:24,930 --> 01:37:27,290
It sounds like you've been through the mill with this one.

1091
01:37:27,810 --> 01:37:35,070
I was unable to make the other one so I'm grateful that I get to stand here in support of this of the Lindsay.

1092
01:37:36,750 --> 01:37:41,930
The reality is we need it. You all have the economic driver data.

1093
01:37:43,930 --> 01:37:46,890
I am not going to stand here and make a appeal to a motion.

1094
01:37:47,990 --> 01:37:51,790
The reality is you have the documents in front of you as to what this can actually do for us.

1095
01:37:51,830 --> 01:37:56,110
We know how much it can impact in the benefit and in the long run.

1096
01:37:56,110 --> 01:38:02,910
So I do recognize that JMU has put forth the promise, but just because promise is in the title,

1097
01:38:03,210 --> 01:38:07,310
doesn't mean that you can actually accomplish bringing all those students back on to campus.

1098
01:38:07,970 --> 01:38:16,470
So I also, I completely understand the desire for this to be as someone who moved here and struggled to find a place to live.

1099
01:38:16,730 --> 01:38:23,350
I absolutely think we need the density and we need to keep building because it's going to be what builds it stacks and brings it further.

1100
01:38:23,350 --> 01:38:25,350
And the students do spend money.

1101
01:38:25,950 --> 01:38:26,810
They spend money here.

1102
01:38:27,030 --> 01:38:28,410
They put money into the downtown.

1103
01:38:28,690 --> 01:38:29,930
They put money into the east side.

1104
01:38:29,950 --> 01:38:31,090
They put money where they're going.

1105
01:38:31,250 --> 01:38:33,150
It doesn't matter if they're the ones who earned it.

1106
01:38:33,150 --> 01:38:34,230
They're spending it here.

1107
01:38:34,270 --> 01:38:35,430
No matter whose money it is.

1108
01:38:35,530 --> 01:38:35,970
That's earned.

1109
01:38:37,830 --> 01:38:40,530
So I highly encourage the support of this.

1110
01:38:40,750 --> 01:38:43,430
And I appreciate all of the work that you've done in hearing of.

1111
01:38:43,610 --> 01:38:44,170
Everyone's opinion.

1112
01:38:44,370 --> 01:38:45,250
No matter which side.

1113
01:38:45,650 --> 01:38:46,230
Thank you.

1114
01:38:50,920 --> 01:38:51,440
Good evening.

1115
01:38:51,440 --> 01:38:51,600
Good evening.

1116
01:38:51,620 --> 01:38:53,080
My name is Ed Rodriguez.

1117
01:38:53,080 --> 01:39:01,300
This is a businessmen in downtown, the Barber, by the Water Street Parking Deck, and I want

1118
01:39:01,300 --> 01:39:07,540
to express my support for this project, because it proximity to where businesses are downtown,

1119
01:39:08,020 --> 01:39:15,400
and how it will help promote vitality and economic opportunities for other businesses like ours.

1120
01:39:16,360 --> 01:39:23,060
And the opportunity to take in those dollars and investing it in the community, and the

1121
01:39:23,060 --> 01:39:28,880
housing we need housing here in downtown I know that many people have different opinions on this

1122
01:39:28,880 --> 01:39:34,460
projects so I'll keep it short to the point that I support this project and I thank you all for

1123
01:39:34,460 --> 01:39:40,820
the decisions you will make and everyone here we all love Harris and Burke we love the friendly

1124
01:39:40,820 --> 01:39:45,940
city and so we want to see what's best and we have different opinions but thank you thank you so much

1125
01:39:45,940 --> 01:39:46,340
do.

1126
01:39:52,420 --> 01:39:57,400
Good evening, City Council. Again, my name is Sarah Baker McEvely. I'm a downtown resident.

1127
01:39:57,560 --> 01:39:59,560
I'm the owner of BFC Bakes on Main Street.

1128
01:40:00,000 --> 01:40:06,600
I am here again in support of the rezoning. This project has definitely changed since I first supported it. It is now more

1129
01:40:06,600 --> 01:40:15,640
than focus than I understand why those changes would make some people hesitate even more than the original design. But it does not change the fundamental reason I support it.

1130
01:40:15,640 --> 01:40:23,740
Downtown Harrisonburg needs people living downtown. Students already live here, work here, shop here and make a bit of an enormous part of our local economy and treating them like second-class citizens who don't

1131
01:40:23,740 --> 01:40:28,360
quality housing is antithetical to the fabric of our town. As a business owner, I don't have

1132
01:40:28,360 --> 01:40:32,280
to speculate about their economic impact. I have four years of numbers showing it. When students

1133
01:40:32,280 --> 01:40:37,920
leave town, my girl sales dropped by 33%. A food business on average runs on a 15% margin at

1134
01:40:37,920 --> 01:40:44,340
best. That's like Gordon Ramsay's numbers, not us small town numbers, 15%. It's really not hard to do

1135
01:40:44,340 --> 01:40:48,620
the math on that. So if we're going to house students and Harrisonburg anyways, I would rather

1136
01:40:48,620 --> 01:40:52,940
house them somewhere they can walk to restaurants, coffee shops, retail parks and jobs. And student

1137
01:40:52,940 --> 01:40:56,880
housing and community housing aren't entirely separate issues. Students have to live somewhere,

1138
01:40:57,180 --> 01:41:00,640
hundreds of students living in purpose-built housing means hundreds fewer competing for other

1139
01:41:00,640 --> 01:41:05,900
housing throughout Arizona, including in the old town housing. I know Jamie, you has a long-term

1140
01:41:05,900 --> 01:41:10,980
plan to house more students on campus. I welcome that, but we need housing now, which Jamie, you,

1141
01:41:11,000 --> 01:41:15,180
may accomplish years from now, doesn't lower someone's rent today, doesn't create an apartment

1142
01:41:15,180 --> 01:41:20,140
today, it doesn't increase our housing supply today, and we are already operating at a housing crisis.

1143
01:41:20,140 --> 01:41:26,660
We're at a 2% vacancy rate right now and there have been no viable opinions given on how to solve that problem in the meantime.

1144
01:41:27,420 --> 01:41:32,660
If JMU eventually houses more students on campus, great, but housing is still housing and supplies still supply.

1145
01:41:33,320 --> 01:41:38,600
And there's other consequences to rejecting projects like this that concerns me, what it tells the next developer.

1146
01:41:39,240 --> 01:41:46,960
Development requires an enormous financial risk. Developers acquire property design projects, conduct studies, work the city staff, revise plans, just as this developer is done.

1147
01:41:46,960 --> 01:41:55,000
And this is a private development on private land sold by a private citizen for private use with public interference that has already made the project worse.

1148
01:41:55,560 --> 01:41:58,720
And public interference is never great for business viability in the long term.

1149
01:41:59,360 --> 01:42:06,080
And not every project deserves approval, but when a project advances the density and walkability we said that we want and goes through that process,

1150
01:42:06,080 --> 01:42:10,240
response to the concerns and is still rejected other investors notice those things.

1151
01:42:10,440 --> 01:42:14,300
A common sentiment is that they want this development put at the roses who are we going

1152
01:42:14,300 --> 01:42:18,680
to attract to build at the roses if we're denying every single thing that comes across for

1153
01:42:18,680 --> 01:42:23,120
development. There is no line of perfect projects waiting behind this one and the next

1154
01:42:23,120 --> 01:42:26,980
developer may simply decide to have some very curious too much uncertainty and invest somewhere else.

1155
01:42:27,440 --> 01:42:30,920
And this property can still be developed without this rezoning. So our choice isn't this

1156
01:42:30,920 --> 01:42:34,900
development versus nothing or this development versus a park. It's a hideous and a housing

1157
01:42:34,900 --> 01:42:38,120
version of this development versus what can realistically be built there

1158
01:42:38,120 --> 01:42:41,880
otherwise. And I would much rather see high density housing on valuable land

1159
01:42:41,880 --> 01:42:45,440
connecting Jamie and downtown than lower density town homes that I think

1160
01:42:45,440 --> 01:42:49,120
will just turn into fat houses. We need housing now, we need investment now,

1161
01:42:49,160 --> 01:42:52,100
and we spent years talking about the downtown we want to create and at some point

1162
01:42:52,100 --> 01:42:54,980
we have to be willing to build it. So I hope you guys support the link.

1163
01:43:06,670 --> 01:43:10,150
I forgot my glasses, so I'm pardoned that I have to read this really closely.

1164
01:43:11,190 --> 01:43:15,230
Good evening, Mary, and city council members. My name is Candy Graham, and I live on

1165
01:43:15,850 --> 01:43:22,610
I'm a proud Jane Mew, 28-year employee, and a three-time alum, but most importantly, I'm very proud

1166
01:43:22,610 --> 01:43:26,390
Harris of her community member who have children here that deserve a wonderful future in

1167
01:43:26,390 --> 01:43:31,550
our friendly city as well. So tonight I want to ask each of you a very simple question.

1168
01:43:32,450 --> 01:43:37,710
What is your why? Why did you run for City Council? Why do you continue to serve?

1169
01:43:38,490 --> 01:43:42,910
And when you cast a vote that could permanently change the character of this community and city,

1170
01:43:42,910 --> 01:43:45,050
What is the why behind that vote?

1171
01:43:45,630 --> 01:43:47,890
Because tonight, I'm asking you to vote no on the

1172
01:43:47,890 --> 01:43:49,350
rezoning for the Lindsey property.

1173
01:43:50,130 --> 01:43:52,430
And I want you to think about why saying no matters.

1174
01:43:52,990 --> 01:43:54,850
Harrison Burke calls itself the friendly city,

1175
01:43:55,010 --> 01:43:56,750
but what kind of city are we choosing to become?

1176
01:43:57,510 --> 01:43:58,670
We already have an extraordinary

1177
01:43:58,670 --> 01:44:00,190
concentration of student housing.

1178
01:44:00,710 --> 01:44:02,450
We need to be asking whether continuing to build

1179
01:44:02,450 --> 01:44:04,910
more large scale student housing is really the highest

1180
01:44:04,910 --> 01:44:06,870
and best use of our limited land,

1181
01:44:07,050 --> 01:44:09,170
particularly in one of the gateways to our city.

1182
01:44:09,930 --> 01:44:11,510
Because once we change that gateway,

1183
01:44:11,510 --> 01:44:13,870
we don't get it back.

1184
01:44:14,550 --> 01:44:16,930
A massive building doesn't disappear when enrollment changes.

1185
01:44:17,470 --> 01:44:18,730
Every zoning isn't temporary.

1186
01:44:19,470 --> 01:44:24,850
And a decision may tonight will remain part of Harrisonburg long after every person currently sitting in these chairs.

1187
01:44:25,470 --> 01:44:29,110
Both here and behind me has all moved on.

1188
01:44:29,790 --> 01:44:32,670
That is why I want you to consider your legacy.

1189
01:44:33,430 --> 01:44:40,250
Harrisonburg's own 2040 vision talks about housing affordability and creating housing opportunities for the people who live and work here.

1190
01:44:40,250 --> 01:44:47,010
teachers, first responders, young families, service workers, older adults, people who want to put

1191
01:44:47,010 --> 01:44:51,850
on roots and hear some Bergen stay. The link is not that housing. So I'm asking,

1192
01:44:52,190 --> 01:44:55,970
why would we change our zoning to a comet project that does not address the one of the most

1193
01:44:55,970 --> 01:44:59,050
significant housing challenges identified by our own community?

1194
01:45:00,000 --> 01:45:09,280
Here, why the scale, why student housing, and why this would be what greets Harrisonburg as they enter, what greets people as they enter Harrisonburg.

1195
01:45:10,020 --> 01:45:15,980
Development isn't an avidol, growth isn't necessary, but growth and good planning are not the same thing.

1196
01:45:16,500 --> 01:45:26,280
This question before you isn't simply whether someone can build something on this property. The question is what should be built here, and what vision for Harrisonburg this council is willing to protect.

1197
01:45:26,820 --> 01:45:30,620
So, before you vote, I hope each of you will go back to your own why.

1198
01:45:31,120 --> 01:45:31,940
Why did you run?

1199
01:45:32,420 --> 01:45:33,000
Why did you prop?

1200
01:45:33,400 --> 01:45:34,820
Well, who did you promise yourself?

1201
01:45:35,200 --> 01:45:35,920
You would serve?

1202
01:45:36,260 --> 01:45:38,440
What kind of hair somebody did you hope to create?

1203
01:45:39,400 --> 01:45:43,960
And 20 years from now, when people drive into Harrisonburg and see what you chose to put on this gateway,

1204
01:45:44,140 --> 01:45:46,460
what do you want that decision to say about you?

1205
01:45:46,780 --> 01:45:49,660
You have an opportunity tonight to protect the long-term vision of the city.

1206
01:45:50,200 --> 01:45:52,720
Please vote no on this resounding for the Lindsay property.

1207
01:45:53,060 --> 01:45:54,700
Not because Harrisonburg shouldn't grow,

1208
01:45:54,700 --> 01:46:00,280
But because Harrisonburg deserves thoughtful growth, that serves the whole community, let that be your legacy.

1209
01:46:00,720 --> 01:46:01,580
Thank you.

1210
01:46:08,930 --> 01:46:09,350
Good evening.

1211
01:46:09,650 --> 01:46:13,090
My name is Mani Fisher, I'm a local contractor and realtor.

1212
01:46:13,410 --> 01:46:19,890
I love downtown and I do support the long-term investment this project brings into the city and our downtown area.

1213
01:46:20,550 --> 01:46:25,010
I also think the project fits well into our city's 2040 plan. Thank you.

1214
01:46:28,560 --> 01:46:33,060
Shall we cast one? I live in a sick 11-odd street. I'm spoken to you in the past.

1215
01:46:34,000 --> 01:46:41,860
All I want to say once again is please vote no, I don't read. Do we? No, be once seen. Thank you.

1216
01:46:41,920 --> 01:46:42,640
Thank you.

1217
01:46:44,740 --> 01:46:45,760
Anyone else?

1218
01:46:51,460 --> 01:46:55,800
Hello. And thank you. I'm Kathy Schwartz. I live it

1219
01:46:55,800 --> 01:47:02,460
4-5-7-odd street. I've spoken before and I sent each of you a letter. And when I came into

1220
01:47:02,460 --> 01:47:09,560
I picked up this beautiful document, so thank you to your PR team who ever put this together

1221
01:47:09,560 --> 01:47:15,960
as fabulous because it's more than PR, it really explains why we live in Harrisonburg.

1222
01:47:16,500 --> 01:47:21,360
You can open it up here to Harrisonburg Department of Parks and Recreation.

1223
01:47:21,720 --> 01:47:28,760
You can open here to find a Harrisonburg Park or facility near you.

1224
01:47:28,760 --> 01:47:38,620
Well, I'm one of these people that decided to retire here because I love these parks, and I'm not actually here advocating that you build another big park.

1225
01:47:38,820 --> 01:47:46,260
I'm very involved with the build our park group and I do support that, but I also know we do need housing.

1226
01:47:46,260 --> 01:47:55,000
We really seriously need housing and I was so excited when the project was to be redesigned

1227
01:47:55,000 --> 01:48:00,460
but also very disappointed as someone else mentioned that the housing that we need,

1228
01:48:00,880 --> 01:48:05,140
the most, is not actually addressed in this new plan.

1229
01:48:06,420 --> 01:48:14,140
So I would just say, go over to West Over Park for some fun on Memorial Day weekend and

1230
01:48:14,140 --> 01:48:21,220
see the entire parking lot jammed with cars because that's why people live here go over

1231
01:48:21,220 --> 01:48:27,780
to Perseal Park, go to any of our parks and see it's so exciting and I envision a downtown

1232
01:48:28,300 --> 01:48:35,720
that all of our businesses can thrive because we can all get there. We can all enjoy a walking

1233
01:48:35,720 --> 01:48:41,920
kind of community that welcomes the residents that actually live here right now. It's kind

1234
01:48:41,920 --> 01:48:50,040
tricky, getting to the bakery or getting to the American tile building. We could do a better

1235
01:48:50,040 --> 01:48:58,080
job. All of us to get to these beautiful, wonderful facilities and support them. So I would say

1236
01:48:58,080 --> 01:49:05,220
I'm asking you to vote no for three reasons. One to be consistent with our own city planning.

1237
01:49:05,220 --> 01:49:15,300
To be consistent with our overall planning documents, which are calling for the need for affordable housing.

1238
01:49:16,180 --> 01:49:29,000
And finally, because of overwhelming the outcry from our community, the people that live here that are asking you to please reconsider and vote no or consider.

1239
01:49:29,660 --> 01:49:30,460
Thank you.

1240
01:49:30,460 --> 01:49:31,900
Hi,

1241
01:49:42,960 --> 01:49:55,320
I'm Joe Whitehill and live on Franklin Street and I oppose this project and part

1242
01:49:55,320 --> 01:49:59,980
because it is still sidewalk to sidewalk, massive increase.

1243
01:50:03,420 --> 01:50:29,660
So, there is a loss of green space, notwithstanding the disembodied, trees, somehow float outside the windows and the renderings. So, I think it will contribute to a lot of the environmental problems and some water problems.

1244
01:50:29,660 --> 01:50:30,280
Thank you.

1245
01:50:30,280 --> 01:50:31,260
Thank you.

1246
01:50:39,160 --> 01:50:39,780
Good evening.

1247
01:50:40,000 --> 01:50:42,440
Sam Nichols, 340, Maryland Avenue.

1248
01:50:44,300 --> 01:50:49,420
I know all the city council members fairly well to very well and I thank you for

1249
01:50:49,420 --> 01:50:57,620
your service and I know that you all have hearts that are for this city and that you'll

1250
01:50:57,620 --> 01:51:06,580
do what you think is right and best for our town and I appreciate that.

1251
01:51:06,580 --> 01:51:14,180
Um, wanted to share just a couple thoughts, um, I asked somebody today, what do you think

1252
01:51:14,180 --> 01:51:15,820
of when you think of student housing?

1253
01:51:16,700 --> 01:51:23,860
And they said the same thing that I usually think of, what pops into my head, uh, is house

1254
01:51:23,860 --> 01:51:30,080
parties and drunk students playing beer pong on the lawn and trash floating across yards

1255
01:51:30,080 --> 01:51:34,080
and into the street and loud noise laid into the night.

1256
01:51:34,080 --> 01:51:41,560
But I think that the students in this building will be somewhat more similar to 865 yeast,

1257
01:51:42,420 --> 01:51:49,220
where there's a large building, and everybody has their own space, it's not a frat house.

1258
01:51:50,840 --> 01:51:57,000
And I don't think these buildings end up being that kind of an image of student housing.

1259
01:51:57,240 --> 01:51:58,180
I think it's different.

1260
01:51:59,460 --> 01:52:08,980
I also think about that this is not an affordable housing project, but it was never stated

1261
01:52:08,980 --> 01:52:15,860
that it would be affordable housing, and nobody has argued that it is affordable housing.

1262
01:52:16,540 --> 01:52:23,200
But the city's own comprehensive housing survey showed that we need higher income housing

1263
01:52:23,200 --> 01:52:29,020
almost as much as we need a very low-income housing in our city.

1264
01:52:30,420 --> 01:52:35,240
For me, at Boyle's Down to Need, we are growing and we need more housing.

1265
01:52:35,540 --> 01:52:39,620
We need housing of all kinds, and I think we need it everywhere.

1266
01:52:40,700 --> 01:52:46,500
No neighborhood should be exempt from having new housing built in its backyard.

1267
01:52:47,300 --> 01:52:53,160
We need the housing, we need the purchasing dollars for our downtown businesses.

1268
01:52:55,580 --> 01:53:01,640
In the last remark, I'd like to say, as I hope that somehow in the future we can generate

1269
01:53:01,640 --> 01:53:08,880
as much excitement and as much energy for our housing trust fund for low-income people

1270
01:53:08,880 --> 01:53:14,180
in our community as we do around discussion of this topic.

1271
01:53:14,720 --> 01:53:15,300
Thank you.

1272
01:53:26,580 --> 01:53:32,520
Hi, Jeremy Littwell, I'm a city resident and also a local real estate broker here in the area.

1273
01:53:33,360 --> 01:53:38,880
You know, I hear a lot of talk this evening and all good ideas about affordable housing and the need for that and everything.

1274
01:53:38,960 --> 01:53:45,940
We talked about that a lot. I live it on a day-to-day basis with my clients that I deal with, with the business owners I deal with.

1275
01:53:46,500 --> 01:53:55,620
And I think, you know, it would be amazing if we had developers out there who existed who would come in and build projects with no need or requirement to make a profit.

1276
01:53:56,280 --> 01:54:00,620
And they could just do it out of the goodness of their hearts because we need it.

1277
01:54:00,820 --> 01:54:01,300
Be great.

1278
01:54:01,860 --> 01:54:04,180
Unfortunately, I haven't met him yet.

1279
01:54:05,200 --> 01:54:09,340
We've had committees after committee at our local Realtor Association Board.

1280
01:54:09,440 --> 01:54:10,720
I used to be president of the Board.

1281
01:54:11,600 --> 01:54:15,120
Talking about how we can help pull that lever for affordable housing.

1282
01:54:15,640 --> 01:54:16,640
Nothing's ever happened.

1283
01:54:17,040 --> 01:54:17,880
Nothing has changed.

1284
01:54:18,560 --> 01:54:19,800
What we need is more housing.

1285
01:54:20,080 --> 01:54:21,500
Supplying demand is real.

1286
01:54:21,500 --> 01:54:30,440
While adding supply doesn't always reduce demand or lower prices, it's a significant lever in the process of doing that.

1287
01:54:30,800 --> 01:54:34,820
And so I think anything that adds housing units to our city is necessary.

1288
01:54:35,360 --> 01:54:37,720
I personally also own rental property in town.

1289
01:54:38,060 --> 01:54:41,500
Every time you guys raise my taxes, I'm raised in my rents.

1290
01:54:42,200 --> 01:54:49,700
So you're affecting affordable housing simply by not adding this tax base that this developer would bring or this project would bring.

1291
01:54:49,700 --> 01:54:57,200
it trickles down. Whether we like it or not, it's really okay. So that that significant increase

1292
01:54:57,200 --> 01:54:59,360
in revenue to the tax base.

1293
01:55:00,000 --> 01:55:26,020
I think it's hugely important given where our taxes have gone in the city of Harrisonburg. I deal with people every day that say, Jeremy, help me get out of the city. Taxes are killing me. Business taxes, vehicle taxes, property taxes. I wanted to move out of the city of the county. We're losing that as Mr. Ray had said to the county at our borders. We need to revitalize, we're losing businesses downtown restaurants, all of those things. We need more building, more units to be built downtown.

1294
01:55:27,040 --> 01:55:30,460
My opinion based on what this developer has done,

1295
01:55:30,640 --> 01:55:33,220
it's listening to public comments, great comments, by the way.

1296
01:55:34,200 --> 01:55:36,320
I think they've done a great job in addressing a lot of those.

1297
01:55:36,480 --> 01:55:38,920
I think planning commission recommended it once.

1298
01:55:39,460 --> 01:55:41,060
Staff has recommended it.

1299
01:55:41,060 --> 01:55:44,000
I don't understand what happened in our last planning commission after they did.

1300
01:55:44,100 --> 01:55:46,160
What everybody asked them to do and then they came back.

1301
01:55:46,960 --> 01:55:48,440
It doesn't make sense to me.

1302
01:55:49,200 --> 01:55:52,360
So I think they've been very accommodating in attempt to make it work.

1303
01:55:52,820 --> 01:55:54,000
I actually like the look of the building.

1304
01:55:54,000 --> 01:55:57,440
I think it looks right with a clock tower coming into town like that.

1305
01:55:59,080 --> 01:56:05,020
The overriding those things in the end, for me, is if we don't approve this, by right,

1306
01:56:05,340 --> 01:56:10,620
we're going to get 25 to 30 townhills, street level parking, individual ownership.

1307
01:56:11,200 --> 01:56:12,680
I'd love to have a park, right?

1308
01:56:12,720 --> 01:56:14,440
Who's going to come in and build the park for free?

1309
01:56:14,780 --> 01:56:18,140
You can try to fund the build your park current plan.

1310
01:56:18,360 --> 01:56:19,440
That's not fully funded.

1311
01:56:19,440 --> 01:56:27,300
So, I've yet to hear anybody offer a solution over just ideas, would it be great to have

1312
01:56:27,300 --> 01:56:31,680
low-income housing or housing for an older population, certainly.

1313
01:56:32,320 --> 01:56:33,480
The numbers don't work.

1314
01:56:33,940 --> 01:56:39,740
The density that's required to make the numbers work, require them to have four bedroom

1315
01:56:39,740 --> 01:56:40,920
units at this level.

1316
01:56:41,140 --> 01:56:42,460
That's simple economics.

1317
01:56:42,460 --> 01:56:53,340
So I think if for no other reason, then to not have a bunch of townhouses built there, this makes a lot of sense and we need it.

1318
01:56:53,800 --> 01:57:04,740
So again, lots of great ideas, lots of great alternative solutions, but no real plan or way to actually pull that off, just because it's not financially feasible.

1319
01:57:05,920 --> 01:57:08,980
Those developers don't exist who don't need to make a profit.

1320
01:57:08,980 --> 01:57:11,920
None of us go to work, so I'll solve with us in no-profits, do you mean?

1321
01:57:12,340 --> 01:57:14,980
None of us go to work and expect not to get paid, right?

1322
01:57:15,080 --> 01:57:17,460
These developers need to make revenue.

1323
01:57:17,700 --> 01:57:19,040
They pay taxes too.

1324
01:57:19,620 --> 01:57:26,720
So with all of that said, I offer my support for this project and ask that you approve it.

1325
01:57:26,920 --> 01:57:27,440
Thank you.

1326
01:57:32,970 --> 01:57:35,910
Hi, I'm Lee and McMurray from 450 Othstrich.

1327
01:57:36,170 --> 01:57:40,570
And I just want to insert a comment to that.

1328
01:57:40,570 --> 01:57:47,630
If a developer comes in and does town homes, he is most certainly going to have some sort

1329
01:57:47,630 --> 01:57:54,530
of an HOA associated with that development, because that's his recurring revenue going

1330
01:57:54,530 --> 01:57:55,050
forward.

1331
01:57:55,710 --> 01:58:01,070
So when we say something along the lines of where we're just going to have these town homes

1332
01:58:01,070 --> 01:58:09,050
that are ground level, with ground level parking, at least there'll be somebody there to

1333
01:58:09,050 --> 01:58:18,630
maintain a certain level of, let's see, what's the word I'm looking for, not allowing

1334
01:58:18,630 --> 01:58:28,250
the students to come in, and if a development has what they're saying about a maintenance

1335
01:58:28,250 --> 01:58:34,050
group to take care of that property, are they going to be there on Sunday morning to

1336
01:58:34,050 --> 01:58:41,610
clean up bags and bags of garbage. And at this point, because it's the first month or the

1337
01:58:41,610 --> 01:58:46,790
first weekend that the kids are back, all you have to do is drive up almost any street between

1338
01:58:47,870 --> 01:58:55,710
Mason and Ostritt. And you'll see what that looks like after the parties. So I'm going back to,

1339
01:58:55,730 --> 01:59:03,190
at least the town homes will be supervised by people who are going to say, okay, if you do this

1340
01:59:03,190 --> 01:59:07,210
not and it's not right, you'll be fine for it.

1341
01:59:07,310 --> 01:59:07,750
That's it.

1342
01:59:07,910 --> 01:59:08,750
Thank you.

1343
01:59:10,680 --> 01:59:11,220
Anyone else?

1344
01:59:27,680 --> 01:59:30,280
Any members of City Council, my name is Carl Orson,

1345
01:59:30,500 --> 01:59:31,940
I live on South Mason Street, and I've

1346
01:59:31,940 --> 01:59:34,920
lived in Harrisonburg for 10 years.

1347
01:59:35,160 --> 01:59:37,900
I absolutely love our city, and I share in the desire

1348
01:59:37,900 --> 01:59:39,720
of many in this room to have greater density

1349
01:59:39,720 --> 01:59:42,040
and more neighbors living in and around downtown.

1350
01:59:43,020 --> 01:59:45,940
And yet, I'm here to respectfully ask you to vote no tonight

1351
01:59:45,940 --> 01:59:48,400
on the rezoning at 473 South Main Street

1352
01:59:48,400 --> 01:59:54,140
is a first half toward a better U.S. tomorrow. I want to be very clear, voting no is not a

1353
01:59:54,140 --> 01:59:58,800
vote against housing or against downtown growth. A no vote tonight is about opening

1354
01:59:58,800 --> 01:59:59,960
the door to better ya

1355
02:00:02,240 --> 02:00:09,920
First, I'd like to point out that this rezoning proposal contradicts the downtown 2040 plan in several obvious and important ways.

1356
02:00:10,800 --> 02:00:16,380
The downtown 2040 plan was adopted by city council and it represents our community's shared vision for downtown development.

1357
02:00:17,220 --> 02:00:22,600
While this development proposal may deliver a development and density, density alone is not enough.

1358
02:00:23,540 --> 02:00:30,680
This image from page 60 of the downtown 2040 plan clearly depicts a B-1 style building at three

1359
02:00:30,680 --> 02:00:34,440
stories with both historic buildings on the property preserved.

1360
02:00:35,620 --> 02:00:40,300
The applicant's proposal contradicts the downtown 2040 plan by demolishing historic buildings

1361
02:00:40,300 --> 02:00:45,780
and introducing four to five story structures in NASA in an area next to two to three story buildings.

1362
02:00:45,780 --> 02:00:53,720
That scale in massing violate the planning principles of transition zones and the needs to match existing neighborhood character.

1363
02:00:54,700 --> 02:00:58,160
Some additional contradictions with downtown 2040 planning include the following.

1364
02:00:58,780 --> 02:01:02,680
On page 60 of downtown 2040 plan it calls for green building solutions.

1365
02:01:03,340 --> 02:01:08,940
It's my understanding that the comparable sized urban exchange apartments downtown are a lead certified,

1366
02:01:09,480 --> 02:01:13,660
but I don't see any similar environmental certifications being offered on this proposal.

1367
02:01:13,660 --> 02:01:20,840
This proposal also risks the negative environmental impacts of removing mature trees and green space next to the Blacks Grand Watershed.

1368
02:01:22,340 --> 02:01:30,520
Page 44 of downtown 20, 40 calls for, quote, the highest standards of design at this downtown gateway.

1369
02:01:32,340 --> 02:01:38,480
However, the developers' profits do not guarantee final building design and materials, as we've heard numerous times this evening.

1370
02:01:38,480 --> 02:01:40,780
The final design of materials are generally

1371
02:01:40,780 --> 02:01:43,200
profored and not substantially profored.

1372
02:01:44,000 --> 02:01:45,600
That choice of words using generally

1373
02:01:45,600 --> 02:01:47,740
instead of substantially makes a big difference.

1374
02:01:47,940 --> 02:01:50,760
And it puts our city out risk of getting an inferior building

1375
02:01:50,760 --> 02:01:52,480
if this rezoning is approved.

1376
02:01:53,660 --> 02:01:55,800
I'm reassured that this evening Mr. Ray said

1377
02:01:55,800 --> 02:01:57,340
it's not the intent of the developer

1378
02:01:57,940 --> 02:02:00,380
to change up the design after approval.

1379
02:02:01,700 --> 02:02:03,980
If so, it would be a very simple change

1380
02:02:03,980 --> 02:02:07,420
to use the words substantial instead of general conformance

1381
02:02:07,420 --> 02:02:10,160
to better align with the intent of this developer.

1382
02:02:12,420 --> 02:02:15,040
If a developer wants to go against their planning documents,

1383
02:02:15,820 --> 02:02:17,660
then there better be widespread communities

1384
02:02:17,660 --> 02:02:20,560
of court for doing and say, unfortunately,

1385
02:02:20,740 --> 02:02:21,900
that doesn't exist together.

1386
02:02:22,600 --> 02:02:24,700
This proposal has faced overwhelming opposition

1387
02:02:24,700 --> 02:02:27,380
for our community since it won't public over a year ago.

1388
02:02:28,100 --> 02:02:30,420
This map shows the addresses of people

1389
02:02:30,420 --> 02:02:32,720
who have signed the petition against rezoning the property

1390
02:02:32,720 --> 02:02:35,400
in favor of keeping the current R3 designation.

1391
02:02:36,020 --> 02:02:38,300
Over 1,600 people have signed the petition

1392
02:02:38,300 --> 02:02:43,080
against resounding and this map shows that the opposition is wide spread across the entire city.

1393
02:02:44,560 --> 02:02:51,780
Have we ever seen citywide opposition for a resounding like this one? And I mean truly citywide

1394
02:02:51,780 --> 02:02:58,160
opposition, as you can see I'm a map. This is downtown right here and there are people from all over

1395
02:02:58,160 --> 02:03:04,400
the city who have signs this petition. This is not about NIMBY. This is about our community gathering

1396
02:03:04,400 --> 02:03:06,420
around a common vision for our city.

1397
02:03:06,940 --> 02:03:08,600
While student oriented housing like this,

1398
02:03:08,680 --> 02:03:09,800
maybe appropriate elsewhere,

1399
02:03:10,380 --> 02:03:11,740
our city overwhelmingly agrees

1400
02:03:11,740 --> 02:03:13,640
that this property should not be resound.

1401
02:03:14,260 --> 02:03:16,820
In fact, the title of a petition signature page

1402
02:03:16,820 --> 02:03:18,100
reads as follows, quote,

1403
02:03:18,500 --> 02:03:21,220
keep 473 South Main Street R3,

1404
02:03:21,540 --> 02:03:23,080
stop B1C resounding,

1405
02:03:23,580 --> 02:03:26,820
and there are over 1600 signatures on that petition.

1406
02:03:28,060 --> 02:03:31,160
We now humbly ask you as your constituents

1407
02:03:31,160 --> 02:03:33,100
to please listen to this common vision

1408
02:03:33,100 --> 02:03:34,460
that our community has demonstrated

1409
02:03:34,460 --> 02:03:36,920
and please keep the properties out into our three.

1410
02:03:37,820 --> 02:03:39,260
Finally, please consider how voting

1411
02:03:39,260 --> 02:03:40,920
now on this proposal could open the door

1412
02:03:40,920 --> 02:03:42,100
to a better yes tomorrow.

1413
02:03:42,760 --> 02:03:44,760
There could be the possibility of a different development

1414
02:03:44,760 --> 02:03:46,640
here that better aligns with the goals and vision

1415
02:03:46,640 --> 02:03:47,480
of our community.

1416
02:03:48,540 --> 02:03:51,740
Maybe a development with zero for better immunists.

1417
02:03:52,480 --> 02:03:53,800
There's been an argument tonight

1418
02:03:53,800 --> 02:03:56,080
that it's not financially feasible to build

1419
02:03:56,080 --> 02:03:57,440
without four better immunists.

1420
02:03:58,220 --> 02:04:00,260
However, I'd like to point out that urban exchange

1421
02:04:00,260 --> 02:04:03,080
which seems to be a very popular downtown apartment building

1422
02:04:03,080 --> 02:04:05,360
has zero four-bedroom units.

1423
02:04:06,360 --> 02:04:08,300
There are also several recently completed

1424
02:04:08,300 --> 02:04:11,080
apartment buildings downtown that don't even have three

1425
02:04:11,080 --> 02:04:13,140
bedroom units that are only one in two better

1426
02:04:13,140 --> 02:04:16,420
units. It is totally possible and financially

1427
02:04:16,420 --> 02:04:18,940
profitable even to build one in two better

1428
02:04:18,940 --> 02:04:21,800
units downtown. Take it for me. I'm the

1429
02:04:21,800 --> 02:04:27,280
finance professors here. Thank you. Thank you.

1430
02:04:29,800 --> 02:04:31,140
I appreciate your time.

1431
02:04:31,380 --> 02:04:31,520
I appreciate your time.

1432
02:04:31,600 --> 02:04:32,060
I appreciate your time.

1433
02:04:32,420 --> 02:04:32,640
Good

1434
02:04:42,460 --> 02:04:43,640
evening.

1435
02:04:43,780 --> 02:04:45,800
My name is Aaron Garboy, live on Paul Street.

1436
02:04:46,600 --> 02:04:50,200
With the students coming back, I've seen my neighbors come back.

1437
02:04:50,580 --> 02:04:51,920
My neighbors are actually students.

1438
02:04:52,580 --> 02:04:53,860
I get to know them every year.

1439
02:04:54,240 --> 02:04:55,780
I get to know the students up the street.

1440
02:04:56,180 --> 02:04:57,400
Do you know what they all have in common?

1441
02:04:57,900 --> 02:04:58,920
I live on Paul Street.

1442
02:04:59,300 --> 02:04:59,940
Almost exactly.

1443
02:05:00,000 --> 02:05:08,400
Hopefully, this is going to go in. They all have cars. So, this fantasy that they won't bring

1444
02:05:08,400 --> 02:05:14,340
their cars because it's in walking distance, it's not true because I see it every day. I'm

1445
02:05:14,340 --> 02:05:22,580
starting to see problems with parking on Paul already and we're not even into the really good

1446
02:05:22,580 --> 02:05:27,960
section of the year with football games, parties, things like that, going on.

1447
02:05:29,360 --> 02:05:33,860
And so what's going to happen when we put more people in the building than we have parking

1448
02:05:33,860 --> 02:05:34,320
spaces?

1449
02:05:34,600 --> 02:05:36,840
They're going to move out into the community.

1450
02:05:37,720 --> 02:05:40,720
We are not going to see the enforcement that we need because there's not going to be the

1451
02:05:40,720 --> 02:05:43,460
money for it because they've lowered their profits.

1452
02:05:44,500 --> 02:05:51,820
So I really think that what you're looking at is a monstrosity downtown, a problem that

1453
02:05:51,820 --> 02:05:56,100
just waiting to happen. And a legacy that I don't think that any of you really truly want.

1454
02:05:56,400 --> 02:05:58,640
Please vote now. Thank you. Thank you.

1455
02:06:03,420 --> 02:06:04,420
Do you have anyone else?

1456
02:06:06,140 --> 02:06:07,540
How many more do we have?

1457
02:06:11,670 --> 02:06:17,170
We'd like to thank you for listening to us and my name is Frank Steller.

1458
02:06:17,850 --> 02:06:24,230
I live on Poland, Preston, Drive and I'm opposed to rezoning and I'm very concerned about the

1459
02:06:24,230 --> 02:06:33,890
full street traffic and I would be also for park and health care because I work in the health care.

1460
02:06:34,250 --> 02:06:38,110
So part would be healthy if all of us, thank you.

1461
02:06:38,110 --> 02:06:39,030
Thank you.

1462
02:06:39,090 --> 02:06:39,870
Who's next?

1463
02:06:44,020 --> 02:06:46,740
Madam Mayor, Pena Yotis Yana Kuros, City resident.

1464
02:06:47,320 --> 02:06:53,240
I've known all the City Council members for a long time and I would like to remind us

1465
02:06:53,240 --> 02:07:00,360
of Council Member Bois' admonition from last planning commission, which is that we should make

1466
02:07:00,360 --> 02:07:04,080
decisions on the basis of their merit rather than on the basis of relationships.

1467
02:07:05,520 --> 02:07:14,440
And in that spirit, I would also recommend that it might be wise to cast our net as broadly

1468
02:07:14,440 --> 02:07:16,980
as possible for those merits.

1469
02:07:17,660 --> 02:07:22,060
And to that end, a number of us here in this room have been participating in a People's

1470
02:07:22,060 --> 02:07:28,660
comprehensive plan process because we know that the city's process from 2017 and the

1471
02:07:28,660 --> 02:07:34,100
way shaping up already is not going to be casting that broad net. So at the most

1472
02:07:34,100 --> 02:07:38,420
recent meeting I had the opportunity to speak to a person had very

1473
02:07:38,420 --> 02:07:44,380
interesting perspective. In my year he sounded like an architect, not that I know

1474
02:07:44,380 --> 02:07:50,280
how architects speak, but when I did speak to a particularly famous architect he

1475
02:07:50,280 --> 02:07:55,660
able to open my eyes to things that I couldn't see before. And this person spoke that same way.

1476
02:07:56,140 --> 02:08:02,120
He described the, and I can't do justice to him. So I have my no B2C. I'm carrying it for Mr.

1477
02:08:02,220 --> 02:08:09,040
Paul here for Paul. He described the building being large and are we going to move city hall?

1478
02:08:09,180 --> 02:08:14,740
And no city halls in a good position. And he then guided my attention to the Liberty Street

1479
02:08:14,740 --> 02:08:19,820
court or where we were standing at Liberty Park. And he said, what do you see? And he just he guided

1480
02:08:19,820 --> 02:08:26,420
me through seeing empty and underused space, and he proceeded to describe economic development

1481
02:08:26,420 --> 02:08:33,280
and other places to put the density. So I think he would have been against B2C, and I

1482
02:08:33,280 --> 02:08:39,460
suggested that I can't do justice to this, that he should come and speak. But he didn't. He

1483
02:08:39,460 --> 02:08:45,060
said this was just talk, and that it meant nothing, and especially the things that he was saying

1484
02:08:45,060 --> 02:08:52,980
meant nothing because he was nobody, because he was nobody. Now this was a person who was opening

1485
02:08:52,980 --> 02:08:59,180
my eyes and ways that even a lot of the very enlightening testimony here wasn't able to do

1486
02:08:59,520 --> 02:09:04,660
and he viewed himself this way and he didn't have a stake in this because he didn't live in the

1487
02:09:04,660 --> 02:09:10,020
neighborhood so we had a really unique perspective. In fact he insinuated and I didn't probe that

1488
02:09:10,020 --> 02:09:11,320
didn't live anywhere.

1489
02:09:13,420 --> 02:09:19,540
So we could be doing a lot better than what we're doing right now, by

1490
02:09:19,540 --> 02:09:25,100
rest genuinely respecting public input and understanding that we have a comprehensive plan

1491
02:09:25,100 --> 02:09:31,760
process that's already in progress. There's no urgency. There's no urgency to build houses.

1492
02:09:31,800 --> 02:09:35,660
There's no urgency for this and that. If you look at the Virginia Housing Commission's most

1493
02:09:35,660 --> 02:09:41,780
recent reports on jobs and housing, for all the panic that we're hearing here, we're in

1494
02:09:41,780 --> 02:09:43,920
the middle of the pack in terms of Virginia.

1495
02:09:44,680 --> 02:09:45,780
And things are easing.

1496
02:09:46,140 --> 02:09:47,020
There's no urgency.

1497
02:09:47,280 --> 02:09:54,840
We can say no tonight, and as an entire community, do comprehensive economic planning instead

1498
02:09:54,840 --> 02:09:59,980
of case by case neighborhood by neighborhood, and genuinely guide the growth of our community.

1499
02:10:00,000 --> 02:10:12,980
Community. And if it turns out that we need a certain kind of density here, okay, so be it. But in the process, we'll pool the wisdom we have here and I encourage everybody to come to the people's

1500
02:10:12,980 --> 02:10:19,100
plan, including our modelers, we need a model traffic, we need a model parking demand, we need

1501
02:10:19,100 --> 02:10:23,000
some engineering insight that wasn't present at the last planning commission work session,

1502
02:10:23,680 --> 02:10:32,680
and really respect that there are no no bodies in our city, and really respect that everybody's

1503
02:10:32,680 --> 02:10:40,020
input counts and make it possible for this to be a city, not just for all, but buy the people

1504
02:10:40,020 --> 02:10:40,500
who live here.

1505
02:10:40,620 --> 02:10:41,440
Thank you so much, Madame.

1506
02:10:41,440 --> 02:10:42,340
Good

1507
02:10:57,190 --> 02:10:58,830
evening, Council members.

1508
02:10:59,850 --> 02:11:01,630
May you all in, may you all in.

1509
02:11:01,710 --> 02:11:08,250
My name is El vertucortez Mendez and I have a opinion about the housing.

1510
02:11:11,870 --> 02:11:24,690
I would like to advise that don't approve any for now because I was investigating and the

1511
02:11:24,690 --> 02:11:26,910
have any control or increase in the rent.

1512
02:11:28,390 --> 02:11:30,730
I work with the public every day, and people

1513
02:11:30,730 --> 02:11:32,630
is complaining about this one.

1514
02:11:33,910 --> 02:11:37,750
As soon as the rent house and the next year

1515
02:11:37,750 --> 02:11:40,610
and next six months increase in three or four hundred

1516
02:11:40,610 --> 02:11:46,150
and we don't have limits, and then I would like to,

1517
02:11:46,150 --> 02:11:49,410
if you make some low or something to control,

1518
02:11:49,410 --> 02:11:57,890
to establish the rent before continuing, approving.

1519
02:12:00,190 --> 02:12:03,650
And let me introduce some of this respect to

1520
02:12:09,920 --> 02:12:10,080
the...

1521
02:12:10,080 --> 02:12:15,220
I want to make to want to increase the agreement.

1522
02:12:15,460 --> 02:12:18,260
We are not opposes to the progress of the city.

1523
02:12:19,340 --> 02:12:22,340
We understand that the city is growing a woman chain.

1524
02:12:22,340 --> 02:12:29,940
We support multiple of them, responsible and improving the benefit every one,

1525
02:12:34,630 --> 02:12:36,150
but I have

1526
02:12:36,150 --> 02:12:51,630
been talking with people about the lensing project and there is 70% of these people

1527
02:12:51,630 --> 02:13:03,270
they say not. I think that the progress that ignored the voice of the community is not

1528
02:13:03,270 --> 02:13:08,830
progress. And then I want to finish with this one.

1529
02:13:11,900 --> 02:13:13,760
I would like before you take a decision

1530
02:13:13,760 --> 02:13:20,060
about this building, think about it that the most of the community don't want this because

1531
02:13:20,060 --> 02:13:24,560
they know that they will

1532
02:13:27,280 --> 02:13:34,160
lose the calm, the tranquillity that I have, and yes,

1533
02:13:39,850 --> 02:13:41,170
it's where I want to say.

1534
02:13:41,510 --> 02:13:50,250
Now, but don't forget that I finished with this one. People, the community, the neighborhood,

1535
02:13:51,770 --> 02:13:58,450
How do you call it then we have to think about it because you have to hear 40 people, thank you so much.

1536
02:14:03,850 --> 02:14:06,230
Good evening Mayor Reed, Vice Mayor Fleming.

1537
02:14:06,710 --> 02:14:07,770
My name is Matt Winters.

1538
02:14:07,970 --> 02:14:12,390
I live on North Star Terrace in Rockingham County,

1539
02:14:12,450 --> 02:14:15,490
but I am the pastor of Harrison Berg Baptist Church,

1540
02:14:15,570 --> 02:14:18,890
and wanted to share with you a little bit of my perspective.

1541
02:14:19,850 --> 02:14:24,250
And I speak largely for myself and a little bit on behalf of the Church.

1542
02:14:24,250 --> 02:14:34,490
I have tried to be very open-minded in the process and try to balance all of the pros and cons from both sides,

1543
02:14:35,050 --> 02:14:40,750
and I want you to know that regardless of what decision you make will be good neighbors as the church.

1544
02:14:41,310 --> 02:14:46,130
Our concerns are largely with parking, with the access to the church.

1545
02:14:46,950 --> 02:14:50,650
I know that the developer is offering parking spaces.

1546
02:14:51,050 --> 02:14:53,210
I don't know what that's going to look like

1547
02:14:53,210 --> 02:14:59,950
20 years from now, 10 years from now, 6 months from now. I don't know what an enforcement looks like but that's going to be one of the

1548
02:15:00,000 --> 02:15:11,040
The key things that impacts us. What does that look like? What does that look like with the loss of some of our parking with the closure of South Liberty Street? We're going to be impacted greatly by that as well.

1549
02:15:11,280 --> 02:15:26,580
So this combination of factors is going to be a big concern for us. My spirit and side as I was listening to tonight's proposal is concerning around the focus on college students and staff meetings.

1550
02:15:26,580 --> 02:15:31,700
we hear just the thumping of the music coming across the street from the corner of

1551
02:15:31,700 --> 02:15:38,780
Main Street and Paul Street on the south liberty side, the do drop in, the White House,

1552
02:15:39,220 --> 02:15:45,900
on their party activity weekends and pack some of what we're doing in ministry meetings, things

1553
02:15:45,900 --> 02:15:54,080
like that. So with the focus on just college housing and the lack of family housing, the lack

1554
02:15:54,080 --> 02:15:59,440
of opportunities for single families or single individuals to go.

1555
02:15:59,860 --> 02:16:01,880
I think that's a concern for me.

1556
02:16:02,200 --> 02:16:04,660
But what I would like to say to Mr. Lindsey,

1557
02:16:05,320 --> 02:16:08,100
that I don't know, I just want to tell my story,

1558
02:16:09,580 --> 02:16:12,860
my family has used the same funeral home,

1559
02:16:13,680 --> 02:16:14,740
which is not Lindsey.

1560
02:16:14,760 --> 02:16:16,160
I grew up in Mary, in Virginia.

1561
02:16:17,120 --> 02:16:21,060
But my grandmother, my grandfather, my great-grandmother,

1562
02:16:21,060 --> 02:16:26,320
when I drive by there that is the place where our family gathers.

1563
02:16:27,900 --> 02:16:33,260
What I'm sad about and administering to the families that we minister to

1564
02:16:33,260 --> 02:16:40,860
is the tearing down of the Lindsey funeral home that has 60 years been

1565
02:16:40,860 --> 02:16:51,040
or however long the ministry has been there but at least the building is built in the 1950s and

1566
02:16:51,040 --> 02:16:59,400
remember mom, grandma, when kids come into town or come back to town, I had a cousin that

1567
02:16:59,400 --> 02:17:05,500
passed away at 21 years old in Roxbury, North Carolina, earlier this year, and we went to

1568
02:17:05,500 --> 02:17:12,360
the same funeral home. That's the family funeral home, the family cemetery. And so to lose

1569
02:17:12,360 --> 02:17:20,580
that for a part or for town homes or for a larger building, we're taking away a part of our

1570
02:17:20,580 --> 02:17:44,240
in our collective memory, and I think my ask of you is could you consider some sort of solution or building program where we incorporate what's there, so that folks don't lose that part of their memory, so that we don't just throw away something that the place where I last saw my mom or I last saw my father.

1571
02:17:44,240 --> 02:17:50,740
I think that matters to people, and it's getting lost in all of the stories of

1572
02:17:50,740 --> 02:17:55,460
imagining the future. I know that we have to make changes. I know that we have to do

1573
02:17:55,460 --> 02:18:00,440
something with density, we're sensitive to that, we're aware of that, but for us

1574
02:18:00,440 --> 02:18:08,420
in the ministry world, losing the place where we have said goodbye, I think, is really

1575
02:18:08,420 --> 02:18:12,220
that is untapped and we haven't talked about, so just want to share that.

1576
02:18:12,480 --> 02:18:12,980
Thank you.

1577
02:18:27,720 --> 02:18:28,040
Good evening.

1578
02:18:28,740 --> 02:18:29,800
I'm John Mansfield.

1579
02:18:29,980 --> 02:18:32,720
I live at 505 South Mason Street.

1580
02:18:34,680 --> 02:18:40,080
There are many reasons previously discussed and mentioned again tonight not to approve the

1581
02:18:40,080 --> 02:18:41,620
rezoning of the limousie property.

1582
02:18:42,740 --> 02:18:49,420
There have also been several rumors if rezoning what happens if this rezoning is denied.

1583
02:18:49,420 --> 02:18:52,480
I would like to address three of them.

1584
02:18:53,060 --> 02:18:58,660
First is been reported that residents have pledged an additional $250,000.

1585
02:18:59,380 --> 02:19:05,160
If the rezoning is denied tonight, and Galensi property is successfully purchased for an expanded

1586
02:19:05,160 --> 02:19:10,140
build-art park, similar to the particular post-rocking amgreens.

1587
02:19:11,300 --> 02:19:18,060
I can confirm that this pledge was in fact made within the past 24 hours.

1588
02:19:18,060 --> 02:19:22,380
I have spoken with those involved and have seen the sign document.

1589
02:19:24,080 --> 02:19:34,780
To put that in perspective, this single private pledge of $250,000 is approximately twice the total amount per profit for the lake.

1590
02:19:36,480 --> 02:19:44,580
Second, we have been told that if this property is not resumed, the owner made by Wright build approximately 30 townhouses,

1591
02:19:44,580 --> 02:19:47,520
housing about 120 students.

1592
02:19:48,660 --> 02:19:55,280
That alternative would require a major construction project potentially lasting 2-3 years

1593
02:19:55,280 --> 02:19:59,460
with substantial development financing market and operational risk.

1594
02:20:01,460 --> 02:20:12,180
With Dr. Lindsay considered the significant financial tax, civic, and legacy benefits of a public, private cash purchase at Fair Market Value.

1595
02:20:13,600 --> 02:20:24,320
The proceeds could then be invested in a diversified tax banished portfolio, without the development and operational risks at large student housing of a large student housing project.

1596
02:20:25,520 --> 02:20:29,040
Third, we have heard that the city simply does not have the money.

1597
02:20:29,960 --> 02:20:38,280
The city has an annual budget of approximately $477 million, significant tax revenues, and strong

1598
02:20:38,280 --> 02:20:39,660
municipal bond credits.

1599
02:20:41,280 --> 02:20:47,240
In combination with funds already raised by Bill that Park, together with grants, sponsorships,

1600
02:20:47,600 --> 02:20:50,040
naming opportunities, and private donations.

1601
02:20:51,060 --> 02:20:56,400
The city contribution towards acquiring this property and completing a phase one development

1602
02:20:56,400 --> 02:21:01,700
rock-down greens could represent as little as approximately 1% of the

1603
02:21:01,700 --> 02:21:02,520
annual budget.

1604
02:21:04,780 --> 02:21:08,020
There will always be competing projects and competing priorities.

1605
02:21:08,940 --> 02:21:13,440
The question tonight is whether they're particular property, or this particular property,

1606
02:21:13,840 --> 02:21:18,480
at this particular location, presents an opportunity important enough to preserve.

1607
02:21:19,760 --> 02:21:25,300
In some ways, this decision reminds me of the original heritage golf course decision.

1608
02:21:26,580 --> 02:21:33,200
The golf course was said to be needed despite other courses in the area and it was expected

1609
02:21:33,200 --> 02:21:39,480
to be financially successful for the city despite substantial infrastructure and maintenance

1610
02:21:39,480 --> 02:21:40,220
costs.

1611
02:21:41,180 --> 02:21:44,340
Those expectations did not materialize as anticipated.

1612
02:21:45,740 --> 02:21:51,000
Today you are being asked to approve a four to five story purpose belt student housing

1613
02:21:51,000 --> 02:21:58,280
project at one of the most prominent gateways to downtown. It could house hundreds of students

1614
02:21:58,280 --> 02:22:05,780
and would include a five-level parking garage. The associated parking and traffic concerns

1615
02:22:05,780 --> 02:22:12,980
are to be addressed in part through relatively modest one-time profits. At the same time,

1616
02:22:13,120 --> 02:22:20,040
JMU's President and Board of Visitors have announced a long-term plan to increase on campus housing

1617
02:22:20,040 --> 02:22:24,760
to approximately 30% friction to approximately 60% of enrollment.

1618
02:22:26,300 --> 02:22:30,280
That should at least cause us to question whether additional purpose-built student housing

1619
02:22:30,280 --> 02:22:32,940
is the best permanent use of this unique property.

1620
02:22:35,650 --> 02:22:40,590
There are alternatives to the golf course, and there are better alternatives to the link.

1621
02:22:41,610 --> 02:22:44,290
Tonight you do not have to approve rock-town greens.

1622
02:22:45,190 --> 02:22:48,350
You only have to preserve the opportunity to consider it.

1623
02:22:48,910 --> 02:22:51,070
Please follow the Planning Commission's recommendation.

1624
02:22:51,610 --> 02:22:54,870
and go against me, zoning this unique gateway property.

1625
02:22:56,010 --> 02:22:56,470
Thank you.

1626
02:23:08,820 --> 02:23:11,280
I'm the real estate broker for this property,

1627
02:23:12,520 --> 02:23:15,340
and I would like to say I'd like Dr. Mansell a lot.

1628
02:23:15,500 --> 02:23:19,280
He's a great guy, but I disagree with him on some of these things.

1629
02:23:19,400 --> 02:23:22,960
First of all, the golf course was public money.

1630
02:23:23,800 --> 02:23:25,400
And this is all private money.

1631
02:23:25,560 --> 02:23:27,260
So this is the way the city can benefit

1632
02:23:27,260 --> 02:23:29,960
and put money into his coffers rather than take away,

1633
02:23:30,040 --> 02:23:32,100
which the golf course has done so.

1634
02:23:32,880 --> 02:23:38,680
The Lindsay is now a smaller, more refined structure than the original plan.

1635
02:23:38,960 --> 02:23:44,460
The developer has shown real flexibility in scaling back the project to address community

1636
02:23:44,460 --> 02:23:45,280
concerns.

1637
02:23:46,860 --> 02:23:53,800
Consider the site itself, the 2040 plan, called for exactly this type of use on this parcel.

1638
02:23:54,600 --> 02:24:02,080
If this project were proposed on any other parcel, between the municipal building and the

1639
02:24:02,080 --> 02:24:10,280
The developer could have been able to build the six-story complex without providing any parking whatsoever.

1640
02:24:10,860 --> 02:24:11,900
So think about that.

1641
02:24:12,360 --> 02:24:21,020
So if this developer went to Gus's, Gus's lot there, and built, he would not have to do any parking places at all.

1642
02:24:21,180 --> 02:24:24,240
But we're getting a lot with this developer.

1643
02:24:25,020 --> 02:24:29,980
We're getting a beautiful apartment complex with a significant amount of downtown parking.

1644
02:24:29,980 --> 02:24:32,600
and that's a very rare for downtown projects.

1645
02:24:34,300 --> 02:24:36,300
If Harrisonburg is going to be a city,

1646
02:24:37,340 --> 02:24:39,320
then we need to act like we are one.

1647
02:24:40,220 --> 02:24:42,580
That means supporting well-designed,

1648
02:24:42,580 --> 02:24:46,540
walkable mixed use buildings in our urban core.

1649
02:24:47,160 --> 02:24:50,140
Rather than pushing back on the very kind of project,

1650
02:24:50,440 --> 02:24:53,880
our own planning documents say we want and need.

1651
02:24:55,060 --> 02:24:59,640
The smaller concept has required the building to have a greater percentage of units,

1652
02:24:59,640 --> 02:24:59,960
Thanks for watching, and don't forget to like, share, and subscribe to our channel.

1653
02:25:00,000 --> 02:25:15,100
Which will be appealing to students. But it's not the sole focus of the project. Just as Urban Exchange has been a positive, multifamily project for the city, for the past 20 years, the Lindsey offers the same opportunity.

1654
02:25:16,060 --> 02:25:25,260
And I would say that the Urban Exchange also has people that are non-students living in it, just like the Lindsey would as well.

1655
02:25:26,140 --> 02:25:29,220
There's a practical safety benefit as well.

1656
02:25:30,400 --> 02:25:33,480
The design addresses a long-standing traffic hazard,

1657
02:25:33,800 --> 02:25:36,900
the south and north turn, beyond the Baptist Church,

1658
02:25:37,500 --> 02:25:39,980
that has been a persistent trouble spot for drivers.

1659
02:25:40,980 --> 02:25:44,560
The development solves that problem with the extension of Paul Street,

1660
02:25:44,800 --> 02:25:47,760
allowing the training to be made in a much safer manner.

1661
02:25:47,760 --> 02:26:00,880
Also a more densely populated downtown means additional people on the streets at night which means more safety for all those walking and out at night.

1662
02:26:01,940 --> 02:26:07,220
Downtown businesses need the link as well or need the Lindsay as well.

1663
02:26:07,680 --> 02:26:15,920
A project that brings hundreds of new residents and students within walking distance of Main Street is exactly the kind of foot traffic

1664
02:26:15,920 --> 02:26:19,940
our downtown businesses need to survive in to grow.

1665
02:26:21,440 --> 02:26:23,860
There's a financial case for the city as well,

1666
02:26:24,440 --> 02:26:25,960
the added tax base,

1667
02:26:26,460 --> 02:26:31,880
and investment of this project represents approximately half a million dollars

1668
02:26:31,880 --> 02:26:34,120
is what Harrisonburg needs.

1669
02:26:35,560 --> 02:26:37,560
And let's discuss affordable housing,

1670
02:26:38,820 --> 02:26:42,560
building more housing, even market rate housing,

1671
02:26:43,340 --> 02:26:44,520
helps affordability.

1672
02:26:44,520 --> 02:26:52,520
Every new unit gives an existing resident somewhere to move, which frees up their previous

1673
02:26:52,520 --> 02:26:54,220
home for someone else.

1674
02:26:55,260 --> 02:27:00,640
This filtering effect is well documented, a quick search on the economics of housing

1675
02:27:00,640 --> 02:27:02,500
supply will confirm it.

1676
02:27:03,220 --> 02:27:09,160
We won't solve housing affordability by turning down new residential housing projects.

1677
02:27:10,320 --> 02:27:24,000
Beyond design, it's safety considered the alternative, under current zoning, the property owner has the right to build 34 bedroom townhouses by right, no rezoning required.

1678
02:27:25,560 --> 02:27:35,680
I would much rather see a professionally designed architecturally pleasing mixed use building, with any social activity contained inside,

1679
02:27:35,680 --> 02:27:43,620
than 30 cheaply built rental townhouses, each with a yard suited to hosting exterior

1680
02:27:43,620 --> 02:27:44,360
parties.

1681
02:27:46,660 --> 02:27:51,880
Each with a, I'm sorry, if this project is denied, that by right

1682
02:27:51,880 --> 02:27:57,800
development is very likely what replaces it and it would be the highest financial use

1683
02:27:57,800 --> 02:28:04,780
of land for the owner. So the question tonight is not if you want this project.

1684
02:28:04,780 --> 02:28:14,260
But the question is, do you want this project, which is a gorgeous looking building, or a 30 townhouses?

1685
02:28:15,620 --> 02:28:20,880
And I would personally choose this wonderful plan called the Lindsay.

1686
02:28:21,420 --> 02:28:22,780
Thank you very much.

1687
02:28:31,580 --> 02:28:33,560
Hi, my name is Sierra Lambert.

1688
02:28:33,620 --> 02:28:35,800
I live downtown on East Elizabeth Street.

1689
02:28:36,220 --> 02:28:38,760
I'm a real estate agent and a recent J.M.U. grad.

1690
02:28:38,760 --> 02:28:43,600
At this project gets approved, the functionality of downtown will be drastically affected,

1691
02:28:44,060 --> 02:28:48,640
reducing street parking for surrounding residents and visitors and increasing traffic heavily

1692
02:28:48,640 --> 02:28:52,620
on the two streets that the development will be between Liberty and Main Street,

1693
02:28:53,180 --> 02:28:59,420
which are also both streets that the city plans to reduce to one lane roads in accordance with the downtown 2040 plan.

1694
02:29:00,080 --> 02:29:02,920
As someone who wants to live downtown while being a genius student,

1695
02:29:03,500 --> 02:29:08,200
I know students will bring their car and have more freedom to go to the grocery store

1696
02:29:08,200 --> 02:29:12,380
and even to drive to East Campus when they're trying to get to their 8 a.m. on time.

1697
02:29:13,200 --> 02:29:16,000
The newly proposed plan has removed all parking

1698
02:29:16,000 --> 02:29:20,320
profits and will only provide 320 parking spaces for

1699
02:29:20,320 --> 02:29:24,300
444 bedrooms, forcing residents to overflow into

1700
02:29:24,300 --> 02:29:27,820
public parking that is already limited, especially during the

1701
02:29:27,820 --> 02:29:32,520
farmers market and church services. Additionally, forcing tenants to pay for

1702
02:29:32,520 --> 02:29:37,140
parking only incentivizes them to park in the free public parking spaces instead.

1703
02:29:37,960 --> 02:29:43,320
The link does not serve a diverse range of people because of its emphasis on dorm-style four-bedroom

1704
02:29:43,320 --> 02:29:49,360
units in high rental rates. Housing needs to be built for people who plan to stay here year-round to

1705
02:29:49,360 --> 02:29:55,800
help businesses. Creating more expensive luxury housing does not open up less expensive housing

1706
02:29:55,800 --> 02:29:59,960
for those who need it. This is a theory called trickle-down housing which has been

1707
02:30:00,000 --> 02:30:06,080
Approving time and time again, to fail. Have you ever heard of trickle down economics? It doesn't work.

1708
02:30:10,660 --> 02:30:17,700
In addition to JMU's new housing plan, there are many better ways to prove provide housing for our growing community.

1709
02:30:18,260 --> 02:30:21,240
The city is currently in the process of redoing their zoning rules.

1710
02:30:21,800 --> 02:30:29,860
To accommodate for our growing town, the city can allow for more density and current homes by being less stressed about accessory dwelling units and due plexus,

1711
02:30:29,860 --> 02:30:35,440
And by increasing the number of people allowed to live in houses that are able to physically hold more people,

1712
02:30:35,700 --> 02:30:39,300
like homes with more bedrooms than they're zoning will allow to be used.

1713
02:30:39,820 --> 02:30:45,720
Not to mention, there are many great alternative plots for this development that our first sale

1714
02:30:45,720 --> 02:30:50,340
will have less community pushback in our in-walking distance of jamium and downtown.

1715
02:30:50,980 --> 02:30:54,840
Such as CVS on reservoir and a lot behind it as well.

1716
02:30:54,840 --> 02:30:57,880
Blacks, paint and floor covering on West Market Street,

1717
02:30:58,240 --> 02:31:00,140
Grand Packaging Plastic Products Plant,

1718
02:31:00,260 --> 02:31:01,940
which is also on West Market Street.

1719
02:31:02,300 --> 02:31:05,200
In my personal favorite, which is the right in my backyard,

1720
02:31:07,060 --> 02:31:10,580
the Russes lot, which is a larger and less expensive lot

1721
02:31:10,580 --> 02:31:13,940
than the Lindsey property and walk-in distance of downtown and J.M.U.

1722
02:31:14,360 --> 02:31:16,920
and it's right across from a local grocery store.

1723
02:31:17,780 --> 02:31:21,880
I also want to remind City Council about the potential tax breaks

1724
02:31:21,880 --> 02:31:28,220
from this developer, building in an opportunity to zone, as well as the high likelihood of

1725
02:31:28,220 --> 02:31:32,920
jam you acquiring the property after the link is built, leading to less or no tax dollars

1726
02:31:32,920 --> 02:31:37,980
for the city of Harrisonburg to use. If you say no to this, you will still get plenty

1727
02:31:37,980 --> 02:31:43,460
of other developers looking to invest in downtown Harrisonburg. This is not an all-or-nothing

1728
02:31:43,460 --> 02:31:50,340
matter. If the rezoning is denied today, I ask the city to seriously consider buying the property

1729
02:31:50,340 --> 02:31:55,980
to preserve the historic let's see funeral home by building it or funeral home building by

1730
02:31:55,980 --> 02:32:01,500
turning it into a welcome center, community space, more city offices, or rent it out for income,

1731
02:32:01,880 --> 02:32:07,500
and also to save the last large green space and downtown Harrisonburg by turning it into a

1732
02:32:07,500 --> 02:32:13,340
decent-sized park and permanent outdoor music venue. I love and commend the work that HDR and

1733
02:32:13,340 --> 02:32:17,880
build our park have been going to revamp the Turner Pavilion, but they have an extremely small

1734
02:32:17,880 --> 02:32:21,900
face to work with, and if I'm being honest, it's mainly asphalt and concrete.

1735
02:32:22,920 --> 02:32:24,500
Our town deserves more than that.

1736
02:32:24,940 --> 02:32:29,260
Surrounding cities like Stanton and Charlottesville and even New York City have made

1737
02:32:29,260 --> 02:32:30,080
a partial priority.

1738
02:32:30,260 --> 02:32:31,100
Thank you.

1739
02:32:31,480 --> 02:32:31,900
I'm sorry.

1740
02:32:32,740 --> 02:32:33,500
I'm at four minutes.

1741
02:32:33,520 --> 02:32:34,280
I'm almost done.

1742
02:32:34,620 --> 02:32:36,700
I will all be done in four or five minutes.

1743
02:32:37,240 --> 02:32:38,200
Thank you.

1744
02:32:38,400 --> 02:32:41,940
Even Jim, you have been intentional about their green spaces.

1745
02:32:42,360 --> 02:32:46,660
The Lindsay Law is adjacent to the Turner Previllian and would serve perfectly as a park

1746
02:32:46,660 --> 02:32:47,240
expansion.

1747
02:32:47,240 --> 02:32:54,080
The city has proposed to spend $26 million just $26 million just to renovate the building we're

1748
02:32:54,080 --> 02:33:00,180
standing in. The Lindsey property was listed at $6 million. A little bit of re-budgeting can go a

1749
02:33:00,180 --> 02:33:05,160
long way and survey greater purpose to be the best investment for our town. A park would also

1750
02:33:05,160 --> 02:33:10,580
make people want to live and visit downtown and increase foot traffic for businesses. I ask the city

1751
02:33:10,580 --> 02:33:15,660
to think strategically about what will be the best fit for downtown Harrisonburg and what will be best

1752
02:33:15,660 --> 02:33:21,140
to serve the community and it's easy to see that the majority of us want you to say no to be one

1753
02:33:21,140 --> 02:33:23,100
see. Thank you.

1754
02:33:31,890 --> 02:33:34,650
Good evening. Do I need to change the mic or move the mic over there?

1755
02:33:35,070 --> 02:33:37,390
Okay. I don't. I was always told. Don't touch it.

1756
02:33:37,490 --> 02:33:44,830
Let's do it. My name is Jennifer. I am a city resident. I am an either. I'm just a resident.

1757
02:33:45,490 --> 02:33:53,530
I, as of just this year, I just moved just recently. I just wanted to be a fresh voice.

1758
02:33:53,530 --> 02:33:56,490
I don't have an elaborate speech.

1759
02:33:56,530 --> 02:33:57,970
I don't have a paper map.

1760
02:33:57,990 --> 02:33:59,330
I don't have a purple sheep.

1761
02:33:59,830 --> 02:34:02,690
But I just wanted to provide just my own take.

1762
02:34:02,990 --> 02:34:06,510
As someone who is working on a single working adult

1763
02:34:06,510 --> 02:34:09,210
about the rezoning, I heard a lot of talk.

1764
02:34:09,450 --> 02:34:11,630
You've already heard most of what's said

1765
02:34:11,630 --> 02:34:13,590
there've been great arguments for and against.

1766
02:34:13,930 --> 02:34:15,650
I really wanted to point out the parts

1767
02:34:15,650 --> 02:34:18,710
that affects me as an individual who's not a student

1768
02:34:18,710 --> 02:34:21,410
or not yet a business owner.

1769
02:34:21,410 --> 02:34:26,110
There's talk about affordable housing, how this will provide affordable housing.

1770
02:34:27,370 --> 02:34:33,250
I think it's already been suggested what it's for, but affordable to who, as someone

1771
02:34:34,590 --> 02:34:40,710
who's experienced student housing, it's normally a stretch for a regular person, for a person

1772
02:34:40,710 --> 02:34:44,950
with even a professional job to afford student housing.

1773
02:34:44,950 --> 02:34:52,890
It goes up and up, even for students, it will be a struggle unless they are well-sets in that financial area.

1774
02:34:53,590 --> 02:34:54,790
I don't see how it will help.

1775
02:34:55,230 --> 02:34:59,570
I'm not positive that will help with those of us who are professional for families.

1776
02:35:00,000 --> 02:35:22,660
For people who plan on big staying on term in the area, parking is, you've already heard about, you've already heard information on parking, how, yes, it will be, it sets men's stories high, but it's as someone already argued, someone's going to be, it's not going to be okay, if someone has the pay for it and someone's going to be feeling all the free parking without the residents cannot use.

1777
02:35:23,080 --> 02:35:29,720
So, I just wanted to say, I thank you all for listening to me today, I just wanted to bring out my voice out here today.

1778
02:35:30,280 --> 02:35:32,660
I hope that you'll make the best vote for...

1779
02:35:33,760 --> 02:35:40,060
I'm not saying don't make a vote for the Jamie students because the Jamie students are ready to hear to bring in on your economy here.

1780
02:35:40,740 --> 02:35:46,380
But please consider the residents, those who are here long-term, those who are working long-term,

1781
02:35:46,540 --> 02:35:47,740
but that's which I wish to be.

1782
02:35:47,740 --> 02:35:54,560
in those who are in those who are paying taxes and making inheritance and making a legacy in

1783
02:35:54,560 --> 02:35:56,160
Harrisburg. Thank you for your time.

1784
02:36:09,260 --> 02:36:17,020
Well, my name's Steve Harn, I live at 25 Campbell Street. I've been an old town for about 25 years

1785
02:36:17,020 --> 02:36:22,300
and I was sort of neutral on this project and I think that's probably what the majority of people in

1786
02:36:22,300 --> 02:36:29,440
the city feel. There's sort of just counting on you to make a decision based on the greater bid.

1787
02:36:29,440 --> 02:36:37,760
I know people in old town who were actually very far this development, they're not here tonight again, they're just counting on you to sort of make the best decision.

1788
02:36:38,680 --> 02:36:49,880
I just wanted to make a few points first in terms of mainly about the fact that it seems to somehow be viewed negatively that there'll be college students in this proposed development.

1789
02:36:49,880 --> 02:36:55,160
And, you know, this is a college town to extend, to have a 2040 plan, you've got to include

1790
02:36:55,160 --> 02:36:59,780
college students in it, and to the extent you're going to include them in it, where do you

1791
02:36:59,780 --> 02:37:00,580
want them to be?

1792
02:37:00,580 --> 02:37:04,380
Do you want them to be down at roses where they're going to have to drive to your town?

1793
02:37:04,540 --> 02:37:07,380
And they're going to be the last likely to walk, or do you want them here?

1794
02:37:07,840 --> 02:37:12,980
If you want to make maximum benefit of this property in terms of smart development, you really

1795
02:37:12,980 --> 02:37:18,180
want to geared towards college students, and then the rest of the town, open for other types

1796
02:37:18,180 --> 02:37:24,320
people to live in. And so I don't think it's a negative feature that this is mainly going to

1797
02:37:24,320 --> 02:37:28,700
be college students, I think it's a positive feature. And the end, I think, whether this

1798
02:37:28,700 --> 02:37:32,640
is a good decision for the city or not, just depends on how well it's done. If 10 years

1799
02:37:32,640 --> 02:37:38,340
from now it's well managed as a well built building with low traffic impact, I think most people

1800
02:37:38,340 --> 02:37:43,660
are going to be happy with that decision. If it's poorly built, poorly managed and has negative

1801
02:37:43,660 --> 02:37:48,920
impacts people aren't going to be happy with that decision, but as far as the college students

1802
02:37:49,480 --> 02:37:55,040
people are comparing, you know, this building to buildings that serve as defacto,

1803
02:37:55,040 --> 02:37:59,760
sorority, and fraternity houses, I lived next to the triplex on Campbell Street,

1804
02:38:00,140 --> 02:38:04,620
that's rented out by the bedroom, nine units, so similar to this by the bedroom.

1805
02:38:05,860 --> 02:38:11,240
And last semester, five of the nine walked to school, two of the nine didn't have cars,

1806
02:38:11,240 --> 02:38:18,160
This semester three of the nine don't have cars so people say oh, they're going to bring cars. They're not going to walk

1807
02:38:18,900 --> 02:38:19,360
that

1808
02:38:19,360 --> 02:38:26,060
You know, this has been this been this way for 20 years and statistics that's called a representative sample. That's the type of

1809
02:38:26,060 --> 02:38:32,730
Information you want to make decisions off of so I disagree with this notion that the students are not going to walk you can stand on Mason Street every day

1810
02:38:33,360 --> 02:38:38,070
any hour and see them walking back and forth to school and so

1811
02:38:39,270 --> 02:38:43,750
So, you know, as I said, I think whether this is a good decision or not, all depends

1812
02:38:43,750 --> 02:38:49,910
on how well it's done, but in terms of saying, well, these are college students and this

1813
02:38:49,910 --> 02:38:51,150
is going to cause all these problems.

1814
02:38:51,510 --> 02:38:52,550
I just disagree with that.

1815
02:38:52,570 --> 02:38:57,210
I think it's fine if there's college students there, especially if it's a managed building.

1816
02:38:57,530 --> 02:39:03,930
I think it probably would be better than townhouses, so like I said, I don't want to say what's

1817
02:39:03,930 --> 02:39:07,950
the best decision or what decision to make, but I don't think the fact that it's going

1818
02:39:07,950 --> 02:39:11,610
a lot of college students should be a negative in terms of the citizen name.

1819
02:39:12,130 --> 02:39:13,510
Thank you.

1820
02:39:24,320 --> 02:39:25,140
Good evening to council.

1821
02:39:25,480 --> 02:39:26,760
My name is Bob Corsoe.

1822
02:39:26,840 --> 02:39:32,520
I live on Chestnut Drive, Mayor, Vice Mayor, council members.

1823
02:39:34,260 --> 02:39:35,600
I came here in 1988.

1824
02:39:37,780 --> 02:39:46,200
And since that time I and you and members of the audience have observed the conflicts between

1825
02:39:46,200 --> 02:39:54,640
genius students and city residents. Now to say as my previous speaker just said that there's

1826
02:39:54,640 --> 02:39:59,500
So the problem with students, I think, ignores the...

1827
02:40:00,820 --> 02:40:29,680
That we can see very clearly the days after a weekend parties. So I believe before I moved here in the 1980s, the city council was concerned about the transfer of properties, well, not the transfer of properties, but the fact that a lot of the old town residences were being converted to student housing.

1828
02:40:30,900 --> 02:40:34,480
place regulations to stop that.

1829
02:40:36,810 --> 02:40:40,210
This in effect would be a student dorm.

1830
02:40:42,630 --> 02:40:58,150
So, right in the world, we want to put a student dorm right next to all town, where the conflict has been going on, and then reduced over the past 40 years, more than 20 years.

1831
02:40:58,150 --> 02:41:14,130
So, I would encourage you to consider that as the major reason you should vote no to lessen or at least not exacerbate the conflicts between JMU students and Old Town residents.

1832
02:41:14,730 --> 02:41:25,970
I don't live in Old Town, so I don't have any skin in this game, but it seems obvious to me from my experience that you don't want to make the situation worse.

1833
02:41:25,970 --> 02:41:32,130
by putting a student door right smack at the gateway to downtown and right next to Old Town.

1834
02:41:32,930 --> 02:41:40,990
So I would encourage you to vote against it for that reason, and also for the reason I was very surprised to hear that they had 1600 signatures,

1835
02:41:42,410 --> 02:41:48,970
which isn't what was just being said that people don't really care, they just want to leave it up to you to make a good decision.

1836
02:41:48,970 --> 02:41:56,050
It's not the case if you have 1600 signatures in the city of 50,000, which really, if you

1837
02:41:56,050 --> 02:41:59,190
take out the J&U students is 30,000.

1838
02:42:00,390 --> 02:42:04,530
So, and I keep hearing about density, and we need to help the businesses, and we need to

1839
02:42:04,530 --> 02:42:06,190
have more density down town.

1840
02:42:06,710 --> 02:42:11,970
Well, there's other ways to get density on this property without putting us doing more of

1841
02:42:13,410 --> 02:42:22,350
So I would encourage you to keep that in mind as you make this difficult decision, and I thank you for your service.

1842
02:42:34,960 --> 02:42:38,780
I would normally dress a little nicer, but I wanted you to think about what would Dolly do.

1843
02:42:39,440 --> 02:42:48,500
That's what my shirt says. What would Dolly do? She would support her community. She would support residents. She would support parks.

1844
02:42:48,500 --> 02:42:59,900
She would support affordable housing, and if you think that this is going to be affordable housing, then I think we need to have a bigger talk

1845
02:42:59,900 --> 02:43:12,460
But I want you to put planning first and we haven't done the planning yet because it's zoned right now and you're trying to change the zoning without the planning being done first

1846
02:43:12,460 --> 02:43:15,960
And so to make the supportable housing, it would be one in two bedrooms.

1847
02:43:17,000 --> 02:43:20,740
They, and I understand that they can't make their money off of that.

1848
02:43:20,800 --> 02:43:25,580
Well, there are certain places in a city where Chick-fil-A is going to build.

1849
02:43:26,340 --> 02:43:33,800
Where McDonald's is going to build has to be really high, you know, chance of revenue, right?

1850
02:43:34,620 --> 02:43:41,300
It doesn't mean just because they won't go there, or CVS won't go there, that a business won't go there.

1851
02:43:41,300 --> 02:43:49,800
So just because this developer won't go there, doesn't mean any developer will choose not to go there.

1852
02:43:50,000 --> 02:43:52,140
All developers will choose not to go there.

1853
02:43:52,440 --> 02:43:59,380
And so on Stephanie West, by the way, on Myers, and sorry about that for being backwards.

1854
02:44:00,400 --> 02:44:07,400
But I think we can all say that the Dollywood Support community would support affordability,

1855
02:44:07,400 --> 02:44:12,460
and that she would vote no-one this and that's why I'm asking you to do. Thank you.

1856
02:44:19,550 --> 02:44:20,110
Anyone else?

1857
02:44:26,660 --> 02:44:30,720
Evening. Thank you for your patience and listening to every single one of

1858
02:44:31,400 --> 02:44:34,680
my name is John McMurray. I live at 4.50 Otsd.

1859
02:44:35,540 --> 02:44:41,940
My next-door neighbor used to live on Mason Street. They sold that house because too many

1860
02:44:41,940 --> 02:44:48,240
drunk and college kids kept violating their house and moved up to Otsd. They could be a block

1861
02:44:48,240 --> 02:44:54,300
away from it, up a hill so poor kids can't walk up and they're drunk, I guess.

1862
02:44:56,120 --> 02:44:59,960
I'm going to highly encourage you to say no for...

1863
02:45:00,000 --> 02:45:17,900
A few various reasons. One, you have an opportunity then to come back and look at this again, perhaps with a different proposal, perhaps with a different developer. If you say yes, it's done. It's done. You can't go back.

1864
02:45:20,020 --> 02:45:31,420
I got a dog a few months ago. I lived my dog. He's a cute little puppy and we went for a walk. Yesterday morning, we tried to walk about a mile or two every day. And I went, I went, I went, I went,

1865
02:45:31,420 --> 02:45:38,540
Let's see where I go down Newman and then along Mason Street and

1866
02:45:38,540 --> 02:45:45,900
Well, can you imagine what I had decide step on a walk with my dog?

1867
02:45:46,260 --> 02:45:50,680
There were broken smear enough bottles, there were beer cans everywhere

1868
02:45:50,680 --> 02:45:56,540
You know you knew which houses the kids were living in and now you want to put

1869
02:45:58,400 --> 02:46:22,520
400 and 40 bedrooms across that parking lot with no residential restrictions, so if I was a cute young single guy, you know, and I've found my cute little girlfriend, I could just move her in, because there's no restrictions, so you're not going to have 440 people, you're going to have more.

1870
02:46:24,580 --> 02:46:28,220
And they're young, we were all young, come on.

1871
02:46:29,080 --> 02:46:32,220
We party, we had a great time, you know, yes, we became

1872
02:46:32,220 --> 02:46:35,420
medgimicated, like it was good, and we progressed with our lives.

1873
02:46:35,780 --> 02:46:42,460
But at that point, yeah, you know, you really want to have some fun as well.

1874
02:46:42,720 --> 02:46:44,660
And I don't blame them for wanting to have fun.

1875
02:46:45,220 --> 02:46:47,520
I do blame people if they want to have fun.

1876
02:46:47,520 --> 02:46:56,300
two blocks from my house at 400 people plus. That gets weird. We have all driven past

1877
02:46:56,300 --> 02:47:03,100
Main Street or West Market Street and seen the tarps around the lawns and hundreds of

1878
02:47:03,580 --> 02:47:11,700
hopefully of age kids having a grand time there on perhaps a moral day we can or I don't know

1879
02:47:11,700 --> 02:47:19,720
just as before school starts, 400 bedrooms right across your parking lot there.

1880
02:47:20,660 --> 02:47:22,280
Please, vote no.

1881
02:47:22,860 --> 02:47:29,240
Take a moment and realize that you can come back and revisit this with a different proposed

1882
02:47:29,240 --> 02:47:30,180
developer.

1883
02:47:30,620 --> 02:47:34,020
I don't know, but that's wrong.

1884
02:47:34,660 --> 02:47:35,500
Thank you.

1885
02:47:42,260 --> 02:47:42,600
Okay.

1886
02:47:43,080 --> 02:47:45,760
Do we have anyone else so we can get this done?

1887
02:47:47,720 --> 02:47:50,920
Seeing none, Amy, do we have any callers?

1888
02:48:09,500 --> 02:48:12,240
Waiting. Mr. Parks said there were people on hold.

1889
02:48:12,740 --> 02:48:14,400
Waiting for them to come for.

1890
02:48:25,480 --> 02:48:25,960
Caller?

1891
02:48:30,420 --> 02:48:30,640
Okay.

1892
02:48:30,860 --> 02:48:32,640
Caller, you're now live you have five minutes.

1893
02:48:33,080 --> 02:48:35,060
If you could please state your name and address.

1894
02:48:41,540 --> 02:48:43,700
Caller, we're having difficulty hearing you.

1895
02:48:43,700 --> 02:48:47,800
If you could speak directly in your phone, if you have an on-speaker phone.

1896
02:48:55,360 --> 02:48:59,740
Mr. Barry, we're having difficulty hearing you, you may have reception issues.

1897
02:49:00,040 --> 02:49:03,440
If you could hang up and call back, we'll try to get you again.

1898
02:49:05,880 --> 02:49:06,760
All right,

1899
02:49:14,620 --> 02:49:15,560
I ended the call.

1900
02:49:15,840 --> 02:49:17,320
I'll wait for Mr. Parks to transfer another.

1901
02:50:01,390 --> 02:50:05,290
Caller, you're now live. Can you state your name and address for the record?

1902
02:50:06,790 --> 02:50:08,790
Bucky, Barry, Harris, Murray City resident.

1903
02:50:13,780 --> 02:50:15,460
All right, Mr. Barry, you have five minutes. Go ahead.

1904
02:50:16,480 --> 02:50:22,000
Yeah, what I'm calling about, I'll go to the road around over the weekend and see the parties going on.

1905
02:50:22,180 --> 02:50:25,500
HPD, they've a struggle and I answer in the calls. I was monitoring the calls.

1906
02:50:26,140 --> 02:50:30,490
I'd like to see a park put down over the linty spot, be as if a park's put there.

1907
02:50:30,490 --> 02:50:35,130
I'm wrong to write a significant check out to cover the cost in the park.

1908
02:50:36,510 --> 02:50:41,550
The only thing I wanted to return to Trump, named after my boy, decided to be the name of my boy.

1909
02:50:41,770 --> 02:50:44,090
What he's done to the community, give me the chance.

1910
02:50:45,090 --> 02:50:45,970
And I don't agree with that.

1911
02:50:47,030 --> 02:50:49,690
I'm wrong to write a check, nice to the park.

1912
02:50:50,050 --> 02:50:53,330
Not only that, I'm going to keep the grass cut and making thing there.

1913
02:50:53,830 --> 02:50:55,370
No cost, no cost of individuals.

1914
02:50:59,010 --> 02:51:03,950
We've got all this is on the book, people have thrown trash on the ground, I wrote around

1915
02:51:03,950 --> 02:51:08,490
I was over on call street, grant, and work in different places, I've seen all kinds

1916
02:51:08,490 --> 02:51:08,990
of trash.

1917
02:51:09,130 --> 02:51:15,070
I want to know why HVB is not right and tickets for beer bottles, someone out on the street,

1918
02:51:18,050 --> 02:51:19,850
and calls on the book, we need enforcement.

1919
02:51:20,090 --> 02:51:22,490
J&U students is not up above the law.

1920
02:51:22,950 --> 02:51:24,010
They should vote no for that.

1921
02:51:24,030 --> 02:51:27,210
I like to know what kind of security is going to have that department complex.

1922
02:51:27,210 --> 02:51:31,250
down town officers no longer on the bike number or he's in a cruiser now

1923
02:51:31,250 --> 02:51:36,470
no down town officer down town I like to know what the security's gonna be there

1924
02:51:37,070 --> 02:51:40,930
and I like to have I like to know what's meant from here in the cap on the rent

1925
02:51:40,930 --> 02:51:42,130
2,000 dollar

1926
02:51:44,910 --> 02:51:49,090
voucher a saying service is bringing us if you vote for this tonight

1927
02:51:49,090 --> 02:51:52,170
I'll set your careers done on the council thank you for your time

1928
02:52:04,990 --> 02:52:10,390
Mary there's no further callers Mary thank you I will close the public hearing on this

1929
02:52:10,390 --> 02:52:17,550
issue. Y'all might want to ask Mr. Barry, if you got six million dollars, the right

1930
02:52:17,550 --> 02:52:23,850
child chapter. Since he's right in checks. I'm talking about us.

1931
02:52:24,770 --> 02:52:30,530
All right. Yeah, obviously he'll not much to call it. All right, you're ready.

1932
02:52:37,110 --> 02:52:37,370
It's open

1933
02:52:37,370 --> 02:52:44,270
to council. Well, I'll go first since I've already voted for this three times. I think

1934
02:52:44,270 --> 02:52:49,890
planning commission and I just looked back and I realized I made the motion to table it in

1935
02:52:49,890 --> 02:52:55,630
April but I had a cringe doing that because I wanted to go ahead and move it forward but

1936
02:52:55,630 --> 02:53:01,810
I could sense that even Council had some reservations about the size and so on so let's make

1937
02:53:01,810 --> 02:53:08,490
it something we can say yes to and I'm immensely grateful to the developer and the team for

1938
02:53:08,490 --> 02:53:13,830
listening to the community and making the adjustments that they heard from the community,

1939
02:53:13,830 --> 02:53:18,210
make it smaller and low and behold the community pivot since as we don't

1940
02:53:18,210 --> 02:53:24,830
want it at all we want a park they're dreaming that's already a done deal

1941
02:53:24,830 --> 02:53:33,890
that is not happening so I'm sorry I don't want to well one question I

1942
02:53:33,890 --> 02:53:38,110
appreciated here in tonight is what's your why so I wrote down I have been

1943
02:53:38,110 --> 02:53:43,330
consistently saying on council and planning commission Harrison Burke is a

1944
02:53:43,330 --> 02:53:53,390
We need to grow inward and to some degree upward or we keep losing the people and the revenues and all of the infrastructure to the county.

1945
02:53:54,410 --> 02:53:59,310
And the applicants have demonstrated that that's exactly what's happening.

1946
02:53:59,550 --> 02:54:05,990
The county is building circles around us. We are landlocked. We need to grow inward and I'd like to see even more upward.

1947
02:54:05,990 --> 02:54:11,110
I want 10, 12, 20 story buildings someday downtown where it's appropriate.

1948
02:54:12,190 --> 02:54:13,030
I was for this one.

1949
02:54:13,250 --> 02:54:13,990
It was six stories.

1950
02:54:14,190 --> 02:54:15,750
I'm for it at four stories.

1951
02:54:16,190 --> 02:54:20,770
Even though it's sad to lose some of the housing, I said the planning commission

1952
02:54:20,770 --> 02:54:26,630
most recently, but even I can admit that it's more in proportion with the neighborhood

1953
02:54:26,630 --> 02:54:31,510
and if that's what the neighborhood genuinely wanted, you got what you asked for.

1954
02:54:32,850 --> 02:54:39,090
So, there's that, there's the environmental advantage of having downtown urban density,

1955
02:54:39,390 --> 02:54:47,250
walkable, bikeable, as opposed to suburban sprawl, where we lose the revenues and increase

1956
02:54:47,250 --> 02:54:50,470
the wear and tear and pollution of the traffic.

1957
02:54:51,510 --> 02:54:54,090
So that's another good reason for it.

1958
02:54:54,210 --> 02:54:59,430
Housing at all levels, we had the housing study that highlighted something that really surprised

1959
02:54:59,430 --> 02:54:59,750
Let me.

1960
02:55:00,000 --> 02:55:15,040
That we have a mismatch at both ends, that we need more high-level housing, as well as affordable housing, because people who could afford more were living in less than they could afford and increasing the competition for people who that's all they could afford.

1961
02:55:15,380 --> 02:55:20,480
So that was a whole enlightening learning for me that we do need the whole spectrum.

1962
02:55:21,620 --> 02:55:28,780
And even for students, I've been really moved when Mayor Reed welcomes the students to your home, to your new home, to the freshmen.

1963
02:55:28,780 --> 02:55:47,440
And so I'm a little baffled frankly by the disparagement of the students when it's like a third of our community right now understand that issues with the loud and trashing parties that's not what this will be.

1964
02:55:47,440 --> 02:55:53,300
This will be a self-contained building, well-managed, as we've been

1965
02:55:53,300 --> 02:56:00,640
profit, not like the Frat House developments that spill out into the street.

1966
02:56:02,220 --> 02:56:08,740
So, and to have it walkable, bikeable downtown, and lastly, I'll say,

1967
02:56:10,580 --> 02:56:17,520
to have a thriving downtown means having downtown residents who can and will

1968
02:56:17,520 --> 02:56:24,040
walk bike shop downtown. We've heard that over and over. We have in the downtown

1969
02:56:24,040 --> 02:56:29,340
2040 plan that we intend to bring downtown density. So I intend to still

1970
02:56:29,340 --> 02:56:36,260
consistently support this and I hope that it goes through as planned. Okay I'll go

1971
02:56:36,260 --> 02:56:43,200
because I'm not going to say too much. I've been consistently a no. And I do

1972
02:56:43,200 --> 02:56:51,960
appreciate that the developer laid some adjustments, but I'm still

1973
02:56:51,960 --> 02:56:59,620
on now, I'm a stay on now, for me, yeah, we need housing, we need all types of

1974
02:56:59,620 --> 02:57:08,600
housing. I think we look at each development individually and we decide if,

1975
02:57:11,320 --> 02:57:13,140
you

1976
02:57:13,140 --> 02:57:21,680
for me is not a good fit. I'm not trying to down our students, we know the students are, you know,

1977
02:57:21,780 --> 02:57:43,120
part of our community and that's all well and good, but it's for me is just not. I haven't been

1978
02:57:43,120 --> 02:57:53,180
to try to get there, I just can't get there. So for me, I've been consistent, I know, and I'm

1979
02:57:53,180 --> 02:57:54,060
staying in I know.

1980
02:57:58,810 --> 02:58:01,350
Okay, this is a lot,

1981
02:58:03,500 --> 02:58:06,520
not on my paper. I mean, just a lot in general, long and scared.

1982
02:58:11,300 --> 02:58:14,460
I keep thinking about the phrase, we need housing.

1983
02:58:17,950 --> 02:58:20,490
I keep thinking about this wonderful

1984
02:58:20,490 --> 02:58:23,750
tax base that we keep talking about.

1985
02:58:27,010 --> 02:58:31,810
But then I think about the statement that my fellow council

1986
02:58:31,810 --> 02:58:41,150
member just made. She says we keep losing people. We sure not losing students. We're losing

1987
02:58:41,150 --> 02:58:49,750
people because they don't have any place to live. Downtown businesses should not have to worry

1988
02:58:49,750 --> 02:58:53,810
about thriving if the students are here.

1989
02:58:54,230 --> 02:58:57,890
Students do not equal, thrive, for our downtown.

1990
02:58:59,150 --> 02:59:07,110
We should be building a downtown where businesses run a lucrative operation 12 months a year

1991
02:59:07,110 --> 02:59:15,630
and we are constantly, constantly depending on seven months a year as a way for us to make

1992
02:59:15,630 --> 02:59:18,090
it for these business owners to make a living.

1993
02:59:18,830 --> 02:59:21,270
I don't think this is the right mix of housing.

1994
02:59:22,230 --> 02:59:22,790
Why?

1995
02:59:24,110 --> 02:59:25,230
Because we're losing people.

1996
02:59:26,510 --> 02:59:28,910
We're losing people because they don't have any place to live.

1997
02:59:29,230 --> 02:59:33,050
Young professionals who want to move here don't have any place to live.

1998
02:59:33,350 --> 02:59:36,110
We can talk about that housing study all day long.

1999
02:59:36,150 --> 02:59:45,250
We keep saying there is a loss of or a deficit in housing at the higher end and at the lower end.

2000
02:59:45,250 --> 02:59:52,050
I don't know who pushed the students up to the higher end, but I would think that's what they meant when they said there's a lower

2001
02:59:52,050 --> 02:59:54,970
Yeah, I just don't think that's what people were.

2002
02:59:55,190 --> 02:59:59,970
What the housing study intended to forecast is that there is a lack of...

2003
03:00:02,580 --> 03:00:13,140
We need to make sure they stay in the newest, most up-to-date housing. To me, that's not the mismatch type of housing that we're talking about.

2004
03:00:14,870 --> 03:00:22,350
There's supply and demand. I don't believe that it trickles down in the sense that people are making it seem like it's so easy

2005
03:00:22,350 --> 03:00:33,150
For us to put more students in housing than all of a sudden folks who are on the lower in that spectrum or in the middle of that spectrum who need housing because we need housing all the way across

2006
03:00:33,150 --> 03:00:35,030
Are suddenly going to be like oh

2007
03:00:36,150 --> 03:00:41,790
Now we have more housing to move into I don't believe it happens that fast. It's not happening

2008
03:00:41,790 --> 03:00:49,250
I mean I haven't seen it happen that fast if even when I wasn't on council but then I look at those economic development issues

2009
03:00:49,250 --> 03:00:54,440
I look at the money. I look at the tax base. I'm looking at all of that

2010
03:00:55,070 --> 03:01:09,910
but to me that does not equate to the benefits or the problems that may exist because of the student housing and that's what it is student housing

2011
03:01:09,910 --> 03:01:16,130
That will be right out there right out that door. That's where they're going to be and if I

2012
03:01:16,130 --> 03:01:22,190
Was a smart woman. I would have went around with trash bags this weekend and started picking up cans

2013
03:01:22,190 --> 03:01:25,190
So that I go trade them in for money if they still do that anymore

2014
03:01:26,030 --> 03:01:31,230
But I got this German shoe so I couldn't do that but I

2015
03:01:31,230 --> 03:01:35,510
Think about neighborhood compatibility and I'm not thinking about y'all grouping them bees

2016
03:01:35,510 --> 03:01:37,990
everybody's talking about because that's what they're calling you on

2017
03:01:37,990 --> 03:01:42,670
NIMB's. I'm thinking about neighborhood compatibility, neighborhood

2018
03:01:42,670 --> 03:01:50,730
that's in downtown, neighborhood. And what I want to be downtown, what I

2019
03:01:50,730 --> 03:01:55,890
want to see downtown are thriving businesses and places for children to

2020
03:01:55,890 --> 03:02:00,390
enjoy, for families to enjoy. There's no way you can tell me they're not

2021
03:02:00,390 --> 03:02:03,330
going to be beer cans. There's not going to be rally students. It's not

2022
03:02:03,330 --> 03:02:11,010
to be a mess. I just don't believe that this is the perfect development for this particular

2023
03:02:11,010 --> 03:02:19,790
piece of property. I love lenses. Our family uses lenses. I mean, I don't think of my grandma

2024
03:02:19,790 --> 03:02:26,330
necessarily when I drive past there because I mean, seriously, I mean, I don't, I just think

2025
03:02:26,330 --> 03:02:32,510
of it's a beautiful piece of property with lovely green space. I love all of the green space around it,

2026
03:02:32,510 --> 03:02:37,110
but you know what? It's not my property. So I can't control what they want to put there

2027
03:02:37,110 --> 03:02:42,410
when they want to. When they want to sell it, I guess is what I can't control. So

2028
03:02:45,310 --> 03:02:51,690
then I think about also there's so much to in here. I'm thinking about it's crazy. I think about

2029
03:02:51,690 --> 03:02:58,550
all of this talk of infill development versus sprawl. And I mean, then matter if they sprawl

2030
03:02:58,550 --> 03:03:03,610
out there, they infill here. The cars are still going to be here because students are lazy,

2031
03:03:03,610 --> 03:03:05,750
They get up late because they have a hangover.

2032
03:03:05,850 --> 03:03:08,330
They got a dump in that car and they got to go to class.

2033
03:03:08,930 --> 03:03:11,450
We have, I mean, most of us probably in this room

2034
03:03:11,450 --> 03:03:15,810
have been a student before, or has a child, a cousin,

2035
03:03:16,330 --> 03:03:17,130
enough of your needs.

2036
03:03:17,370 --> 03:03:18,870
We know how it works.

2037
03:03:21,080 --> 03:03:23,920
And when we're talking about cutting down on the cars,

2038
03:03:24,040 --> 03:03:27,820
then I think about liberty street and what liberty street is leading to.

2039
03:03:27,860 --> 03:03:31,260
And I think, oh, that's a wonderful, wonderful,

2040
03:03:31,260 --> 03:03:37,500
You know, Collap rates is all going to look really in whose mind is it going to go like that.

2041
03:03:37,920 --> 03:03:42,320
That's my thing is I know what we're going for as a city.

2042
03:03:42,600 --> 03:03:47,700
We want people to use different modes of transportation, use those feet, get on your bike,

2043
03:03:47,760 --> 03:03:48,380
ride around.

2044
03:03:49,040 --> 03:03:54,140
But in actuality, I don't know if that's just some fairy tale land that we're all thinking

2045
03:03:54,140 --> 03:03:55,000
about.

2046
03:03:55,720 --> 03:03:59,280
Or if it actually could happen, I don't think it's going to happen right there.

2047
03:04:00,180 --> 03:04:07,120
Now, the housing that I believe that we need is housing for the two-bedroom housing, three-bedroom

2048
03:04:07,120 --> 03:04:08,740
housing, one-bedroom housing.

2049
03:04:09,120 --> 03:04:17,360
I don't believe we need fancy upscale housing for college students to live in because when they

2050
03:04:17,360 --> 03:04:22,780
build another development and it will happen, whether it's on the outskirts of the city and

2051
03:04:22,780 --> 03:04:28,480
it's in the county, I'm not sure where, but it's going to happen, will they go running to that

2052
03:04:28,480 --> 03:04:36,940
or upscale apartment building. So I just, I'm just, I know, I look at that money and the money

2053
03:04:36,940 --> 03:04:43,060
makes me say we need that for a tax base, we need that we need the $70,000, but when I sit

2054
03:04:43,060 --> 03:04:50,980
down and I really think about the $70,000, it doesn't really, it's not going to answer

2055
03:04:52,020 --> 03:04:59,940
The crisis is going to add to the helping hand of the crisis of affordable housing, but it's more...

2056
03:05:00,000 --> 03:05:10,000
Global different things that had to that, not just a gift of $70,000. I'm really thankful that the developers went back to the table.

2057
03:05:10,380 --> 03:05:21,600
I know that takes time and money. I wish that we did have a public engagement process that would keep us from having to send folks back to the table three and four times.

2058
03:05:21,600 --> 03:05:26,300
and money's just, I mean, my dad would say closed the door, we are not heating the outside

2059
03:05:26,300 --> 03:05:28,400
and just say the dollars flying out the doors.

2060
03:05:28,940 --> 03:05:36,020
So obviously we need to do something as a city that puts not only the developer but it puts

2061
03:05:36,020 --> 03:05:41,660
in anybody who wants to do something, not on this scale, on any scale, when we send them back

2062
03:05:41,660 --> 03:05:47,580
to the table, we need to think how can we proactively make it easier for folks to develop

2063
03:05:47,580 --> 03:05:48,180
here.

2064
03:05:48,180 --> 03:05:55,780
So that is an issue and one of the things that this is, this is taught me the most is what we do need to work on.

2065
03:05:56,520 --> 03:06:01,600
It's not that I'm ignoring the fact that there's prophets that have been made that are wonderful.

2066
03:06:01,820 --> 03:06:05,560
I'm glad that traffic impact analysis money was kind of out there.

2067
03:06:05,720 --> 03:06:08,440
I'm great. I understand all of that.

2068
03:06:08,600 --> 03:06:17,180
But I also now have my eyes have been open to the many problems that we have in terms of making development easier,

2069
03:06:17,180 --> 03:06:22,990
easier making that process easier while also attached to this public engagement piece to it.

2070
03:06:24,220 --> 03:06:30,220
But for me, having said all of that when I said it wasn't going to say much, I have a note.

2071
03:06:34,550 --> 03:06:40,510
What I appreciate everyone who's here tonight and certainly neighbors, folks in the community.

2072
03:06:41,510 --> 03:06:46,280
I appreciate the dialogue we have on this. I do believe folks care about this city,

2073
03:06:46,820 --> 03:06:52,640
folks who are both born against this care about the city care about our downtown and

2074
03:06:52,640 --> 03:06:57,320
for many of us we've been here for many decades and have seen the city grow and

2075
03:06:57,320 --> 03:06:59,460
and to where we are today.

2076
03:07:01,180 --> 03:07:06,220
I want to kind of circle to, you know, what a no vote doesn't do.

2077
03:07:07,160 --> 03:07:10,340
Tonight, do I think that's a bit of issue.

2078
03:07:11,460 --> 03:07:18,980
So, your voting against this resoting is a vote to retain the R3Z mix on the property.

2079
03:07:20,700 --> 03:07:26,560
It's not a very specific alternative, so it's not a vote for townhouses, it's not a vote

2080
03:07:26,560 --> 03:07:32,260
for a park, for whatever happens with Lindsey's, because nobody on this disc can guarantee

2081
03:07:32,260 --> 03:07:35,120
what's going to happen on that property with another.

2082
03:07:35,120 --> 03:07:35,440
So,

2083
03:07:37,590 --> 03:07:44,190
as a practical matter, I don't think we can evaluate this application in a vacuum

2084
03:07:44,190 --> 03:07:44,630
user.

2085
03:07:47,060 --> 03:07:52,160
It's a privately owned land, already zone for residential development.

2086
03:07:53,580 --> 03:08:00,940
I know many folks have said, what if we can have a developer, or if we have other plans?

2087
03:08:00,940 --> 03:08:09,760
And we don't own the land, and there is no we in that next phase, it belongs to the

2088
03:08:09,760 --> 03:08:10,160
Lensys.

2089
03:08:10,400 --> 03:08:11,180
It's there at their property.

2090
03:08:11,440 --> 03:08:12,560
It's probably owned.

2091
03:08:14,040 --> 03:08:18,720
You know, another proposal coming forward wouldn't be coming from us, because we don't own

2092
03:08:18,720 --> 03:08:19,460
the property.

2093
03:08:20,060 --> 03:08:28,980
It belongs to the Lensys, and I think the owners told us what he intends to do, both through

2094
03:08:28,980 --> 03:08:37,980
years of doing this proper negotiating, marketing the land, for someone to develop it.

2095
03:08:38,800 --> 03:08:42,720
I think he's told us that he intends to put it to use.

2096
03:08:43,260 --> 03:08:44,740
He owns the property.

2097
03:08:46,280 --> 03:08:55,860
I think the idea that he would not use it in the best financial economic way doesn't make sense to me.

2098
03:08:55,860 --> 03:09:05,920
going to do that. So the question for me isn't, you know, is the Lindsey good enough but it's

2099
03:09:05,920 --> 03:09:14,100
compared to what, you know, I really expect to happen on that property if we vote no, you know,

2100
03:09:14,220 --> 03:09:18,620
is this zoning, rezoning a better outcome than leaving it R3.

2101
03:09:20,830 --> 03:09:24,550
I think based on is the current R3 entitlement

2102
03:09:25,430 --> 03:09:33,850
And when I understand about the economics of the site of making the financial gain, my expectation

2103
03:09:33,850 --> 03:09:41,450
and when I've already heard is the rollback fallback position is by white town and development.

2104
03:09:42,430 --> 03:09:45,810
That's not a development that will come back before Council.

2105
03:09:46,590 --> 03:09:49,350
We will not see that.

2106
03:09:49,350 --> 03:09:56,050
we don't have the ability to make any decisions about that by right use.

2107
03:10:00,660 --> 03:10:08,000
30, up to 30 towns, maybe more, before bettering town homes, built with service parking.

2108
03:10:09,320 --> 03:10:14,660
We don't have control over the materials, and I think it's very clearly that would be marketed to

2109
03:10:15,420 --> 03:10:20,520
Jamie's students for single bed town homes, is what that becomes.

2110
03:10:25,500 --> 03:10:28,120
Is that a better use for that property?

2111
03:10:29,280 --> 03:10:38,120
We don't have a non-ity above vote up here, that's not how it works, we don't own the property.

2112
03:10:39,480 --> 03:10:44,320
So I think that's a reasonable expectation to think that that will be the next use of the property.

2113
03:10:46,620 --> 03:10:54,680
I understand that the Lindsey, if that's not something that you support, I understand that.

2114
03:10:54,680 --> 03:10:57,620
But we need to understand the choice of a decision.

2115
03:10:58,540 --> 03:11:01,160
This looks like what's going to happen on that property.

2116
03:11:04,220 --> 03:11:06,220
I do think that the process we went through,

2117
03:11:06,260 --> 03:11:07,940
so we started this year ago,

2118
03:11:10,050 --> 03:11:10,390
that worked

2119
03:11:10,390 --> 03:11:12,310
and went through many planning commission reviews,

2120
03:11:12,810 --> 03:11:17,350
counsels, given its feedback, and that over the time

2121
03:11:17,350 --> 03:11:21,530
that the developer has dropped from six stories to four stories

2122
03:11:21,530 --> 03:11:25,410
when we started this out, a lot of the feedback we got

2123
03:11:25,410 --> 03:11:32,470
It was, we don't oppose housing, we just oppose this project, it's too massive, it's too big.

2124
03:11:34,230 --> 03:11:39,870
In some of the developers went and changed that, made those adjustments in this process.

2125
03:11:45,110 --> 03:11:46,970
The maximum units have dropped,

2126
03:11:52,450 --> 03:11:53,670
the height of it has dropped.

2127
03:11:54,090 --> 03:11:56,170
That was what they were asked to do.

2128
03:12:01,700 --> 03:12:07,760
I think the Council has asked for substantial changes in the property and they did that.

2129
03:12:08,860 --> 03:12:21,640
I think is a governing principle for us that we can expect for developers to support public input

2130
03:12:21,640 --> 03:12:28,700
in this process that we have given to them and then they make changes and then we don't

2131
03:12:28,700 --> 03:12:32,100
follow through on on that, where we don't take that in consideration.

2132
03:12:32,980 --> 03:12:38,320
I think that's an important governance piece for us to think about.

2133
03:12:43,000 --> 03:12:49,700
So I set the lens against what seems to be the alternative with

2134
03:12:53,580 --> 03:12:53,940
parking.

2135
03:12:54,780 --> 03:12:57,400
The lens is a five-level parking garage,

2136
03:12:59,960 --> 03:13:01,620
minimum of 320 spaces.

2137
03:13:02,400 --> 03:13:13,900
I see townhomes as surface parking and I see that is also a corridor or access for residents

2138
03:13:13,900 --> 03:13:18,120
to be concerned about as well and we're in an out traffic maybe fewer cars.

2139
03:13:18,560 --> 03:13:19,920
I'm not sure it means less traffic.

2140
03:13:21,800 --> 03:13:24,500
You know, a buy-right townhome development.

2141
03:13:25,700 --> 03:13:29,880
It could be managed professionally but there's no guarantee there's no requirement there

2142
03:13:29,880 --> 03:13:34,900
manage professionally. If we have a lot of townhomes that aren't managed professionally, we see

2143
03:13:34,900 --> 03:13:43,500
what those look like. We see what the student use is there. We see the trash that happens

2144
03:13:43,500 --> 03:13:52,950
on those townhomes. This would be a gateway with townhomes coming into it, but there's no requirement.

2145
03:13:53,090 --> 03:13:58,150
Maybe they have management on it, but there's certainly no requirement to do that. The city

2146
03:13:58,150 --> 03:14:02,870
We would have no enforceable claim to any of that.

2147
03:14:03,050 --> 03:14:06,990
The current prompters do require a third party management,

2148
03:14:09,950 --> 03:14:11,550
register with a city,

2149
03:14:13,690 --> 03:14:16,050
staff looking after that property,

2150
03:14:16,990 --> 03:14:19,650
and it's also binding with a successor property.

2151
03:14:21,010 --> 03:14:26,050
That's enforceable commitment that an R3 subdivision just doesn't care.

2152
03:14:26,050 --> 03:14:26,970
We

2153
03:14:38,400 --> 03:14:45,660
talked about design accountability for this and folks at the question whether there will be design accountability.

2154
03:14:47,000 --> 03:14:50,580
It's when she's been through a number of offers, multiple rounds.

2155
03:14:53,740 --> 03:14:59,600
By right, construction, there's no design review at all on that.

2156
03:15:00,430 --> 03:15:03,370
So that will become what it becomes.

2157
03:15:06,690 --> 03:15:12,690
The by-right alternative, the council, it's certainly smaller without a doubt, and certainly smaller mass-ness project.

2158
03:15:12,950 --> 03:15:15,310
I can't ignore that.

2159
03:15:18,100 --> 03:15:28,100
But on the issues that folks have raised up parking capacity management, public infrastructure, it's downtown.

2160
03:15:31,840 --> 03:15:47,320
I don't think I'm not sure that those townhomes make the gateway to our city that folks are expecting it to be or that the Lindsey itself might look better coming into the city as a gateway.

2161
03:15:47,820 --> 03:15:50,000
I'm not sure the townhomes are a better outcome.

2162
03:15:52,190 --> 03:15:57,010
Also it's kind of looking at other university communities in Virginia.

2163
03:15:59,050 --> 03:16:06,120
Blacksburg, Charlottesville, Fredericksburg, Williamsburg, Williamsburg, Williamsburg.

2164
03:16:06,120 --> 03:16:08,960
Other than Williamsburg, we are a larger city than all of those.

2165
03:16:12,590 --> 03:16:16,370
Blacksburg has an eight-story building downtown they've built for students.

2166
03:16:17,190 --> 03:16:21,230
Charlottesville has a 10- and 11-story building, they've built downstairs for students.

2167
03:16:24,940 --> 03:16:29,240
Fredericksburg, which is an eight-story building, they've built downtown downtown for students.

2168
03:16:30,860 --> 03:16:36,840
All of our university communities in Virginia have large downtown student projects.

2169
03:16:37,100 --> 03:16:38,900
This is four stories.

2170
03:16:39,820 --> 03:16:42,000
So considerably shorter.

2171
03:16:42,380 --> 03:16:46,820
I think responsive to Harris and we don't have to build like other cities do without

2172
03:16:46,820 --> 03:16:47,420
a doubt.

2173
03:16:47,960 --> 03:16:49,320
We don't have to be Charlottesville.

2174
03:16:50,260 --> 03:16:52,820
We don't have to be lynched, but we don't have to be lynched.

2175
03:16:52,880 --> 03:16:56,380
The Charlottesville people don't like that development down to.

2176
03:16:57,420 --> 03:16:57,900
Yes.

2177
03:16:57,900 --> 03:16:58,640
Yeah, I'm not.

2178
03:16:58,740 --> 03:16:59,380
Yeah, I hear you.

2179
03:16:59,500 --> 03:17:04,760
So they have multiple 10 and 11, 12 or another 12-story building.

2180
03:17:07,440 --> 03:17:11,100
But that's not what we're proposing here.

2181
03:17:13,390 --> 03:17:13,510
Right?

2182
03:17:13,590 --> 03:17:17,110
We're looking at a four-story building, much smaller than those other projects.

2183
03:17:17,150 --> 03:17:20,150
So this is a different approach we have here.

2184
03:17:23,230 --> 03:17:25,270
You know, the student housing and GMU question.

2185
03:17:25,470 --> 03:17:27,030
I take that seriously as well.

2186
03:17:27,030 --> 03:17:33,450
So, GMU has a plan and place to grow,

2187
03:17:37,080 --> 03:17:44,120
looking at what, just 60% housing on campus by 2040, 40%

2188
03:17:44,120 --> 03:17:45,780
on by 2032.

2189
03:17:48,770 --> 03:17:54,230
However, they don't start. So, currently, it looks like they have 2028. They want

2190
03:17:54,230 --> 03:18:02,230
to have 1,000 bedroom dorm on campus. I'm not sure there's any way for them to get that, but I know

2191
03:18:02,230 --> 03:18:10,130
Right now, the DMU student enrollment found another 400 students higher this year than last.

2192
03:18:12,240 --> 03:18:16,620
Another year of that, 500 were going to get up to maybe another thousand students,

2193
03:18:17,180 --> 03:18:19,660
and they haven't had any student housing on campus.

2194
03:18:19,980 --> 03:18:26,040
Another year after that, we could have 1500 more students at JMU,

2195
03:18:26,640 --> 03:18:29,620
but no housing provided by JMU.

2196
03:18:33,630 --> 03:18:40,730
Downtown is, as our staff said, where we went students to be, we went them in student

2197
03:18:40,730 --> 03:18:49,030
structured housing. Otherwise they're out in the county, more development goes out there.

2198
03:18:49,410 --> 03:18:50,930
We have the traffic coming into the city,

2199
03:18:53,340 --> 03:18:59,380
that doesn't help us. So having students downtown

2200
03:19:01,160 --> 03:19:08,300
is where we would like to see them in locations closer to Jamue, closer to downtown businesses.

2201
03:19:09,020 --> 03:19:17,320
The badges that go away, when Jamue builds, those aren't going to be equally taken away.

2202
03:19:18,320 --> 03:19:20,500
So the county is likely to lose those beds.

2203
03:19:22,990 --> 03:19:24,310
Those units will have to be converted.

2204
03:19:24,510 --> 03:19:25,870
They like to figure out what to do with those units.

2205
03:19:29,940 --> 03:19:37,220
This is not a perfect project and I don't think anyone up here bleases a perfect project.

2206
03:19:38,180 --> 03:19:42,140
I'm not sure if anyone out there, folks who are against us certainly don't see it that way.

2207
03:19:46,320 --> 03:19:51,110
But the alternative, but also not what we want to see.

2208
03:19:51,870 --> 03:19:59,950
I think this Lindsey's does provide four stories of housing, it does provide some...

2209
03:20:00,000 --> 03:20:09,140
I'm single unit housing in there, enforceable, professional management, not the levels we'd like to see. I get that.

2210
03:20:09,200 --> 03:20:29,800
The project's going to be perfect. A next project, being proposed here, I'm not sure who's going to do that. Who's going to be willing to come in and take that risk, work with the owner and say I'm willing to spend hundreds of thousands of dollars on a project that is not likely to get through.

2211
03:20:31,260 --> 03:20:37,800
Again, it's been made pretty clear that the owner of the property is going to make use of

2212
03:20:37,800 --> 03:20:38,840
the property for housing.

2213
03:20:41,380 --> 03:20:49,200
So, the question becomes, is the winzy and the current forms of managed project, a better

2214
03:20:49,200 --> 03:20:57,680
project, or are the townhorns there that I think are very likely to go through, what we want

2215
03:20:57,680 --> 03:20:59,660
to see on that property.

2216
03:21:00,740 --> 03:21:06,640
And we've talked a lot here tonight about what those type of properties look like coming

2217
03:21:06,640 --> 03:21:07,320
into the city.

2218
03:21:10,000 --> 03:21:13,360
If there's an alternative to that, I'd love to see it.

2219
03:21:13,700 --> 03:21:19,460
I've been asking folks for a year, which the alternative that the owner would be willing

2220
03:21:19,460 --> 03:21:22,440
to do and able to do for that property.

2221
03:21:24,600 --> 03:21:27,680
We've seen a three-story building that's been proposed there.

2222
03:21:27,680 --> 03:21:30,440
A five-story building has been proposed. There was an alternative.

2223
03:21:32,720 --> 03:21:36,960
I don't see the owner saying, yes, I'm willing to do that project.

2224
03:21:42,370 --> 03:21:47,490
So my job is to compare the lens to what I think is like even a happen there.

2225
03:21:47,830 --> 03:21:53,650
I think that talent and project there is something I'm not sure.

2226
03:21:53,770 --> 03:21:58,030
Maybe folks on the Dias here support a talent and project got on that.

2227
03:21:58,610 --> 03:22:00,770
if that's something that would be preferable or not,

2228
03:22:00,790 --> 03:22:04,830
I think that's kind of the choice we're going to have here on the diast.

2229
03:22:05,170 --> 03:22:12,860
I don't think that it should be a matter of if you don't take this,

2230
03:22:12,980 --> 03:22:14,100
you're going to get that.

2231
03:22:14,640 --> 03:22:18,100
If you vote yes, this should be on the matter of the project that's on the table.

2232
03:22:21,660 --> 03:22:23,140
No, no, no, no.

2233
03:22:23,140 --> 03:22:24,520
That's not going to be a deal, right?

2234
03:22:25,180 --> 03:22:25,640
So, so, so.

2235
03:22:25,640 --> 03:22:28,060
Well, if you agree with that, then why have you been talking about the other

2236
03:22:28,060 --> 03:22:29,220
for the last 10 minutes?

2237
03:22:29,220 --> 03:22:30,980
And I don't really like that.

2238
03:22:31,540 --> 03:22:35,320
Well, so I do agree on the merits of the project.

2239
03:22:36,320 --> 03:22:38,400
Will this be going to merits of the project then?

2240
03:22:39,660 --> 03:22:45,940
So this provides, as we know, our downtown businesses need folks.

2241
03:22:47,560 --> 03:22:48,760
This is for traffic.

2242
03:22:49,020 --> 03:22:52,900
These are folks who are using our downtown businesses without a doubt.

2243
03:22:54,280 --> 03:22:57,280
This is the place where we need student housing.

2244
03:22:59,240 --> 03:23:09,240
Downtown, closer to campus, building it further out in the county doesn't help us.

2245
03:23:12,180 --> 03:23:16,760
Our staff, our downtown plan, is talked about density, about more building downtown.

2246
03:23:20,980 --> 03:23:22,160
That's what this project does.

2247
03:23:22,360 --> 03:23:27,220
It's part of our 2040 plan of making this B-1 and building,

2248
03:23:29,760 --> 03:23:32,480
and I appreciate the

2249
03:23:32,480 --> 03:23:35,420
in terms that folks have, they're none of these projects

2250
03:23:35,420 --> 03:23:39,300
are without concerns or challenges,

2251
03:23:39,740 --> 03:23:43,360
whichever one we do, there is no perfect project here,

2252
03:23:43,620 --> 03:23:44,100
out of doubt.

2253
03:23:45,780 --> 03:23:47,440
And this is not a perfect project.

2254
03:23:48,000 --> 03:23:48,840
It's not a perfect project.

2255
03:23:48,840 --> 03:23:49,980
It's not a perfect project.

2256
03:23:50,600 --> 03:23:53,700
It's not going to get a perfect project on this project.

2257
03:23:54,320 --> 03:23:58,280
So, okay, so,

2258
03:24:00,360 --> 03:24:00,360
okay.

2259
03:24:02,400 --> 03:24:05,880
It's not what I want to see on that property as well.

2260
03:24:06,360 --> 03:24:11,280
This provides many of the things we're looking for, additional housing.

2261
03:24:13,160 --> 03:24:14,840
We do need student housing.

2262
03:24:15,340 --> 03:24:22,760
Students here, downtown traffic, pretty downtown businesses that are here.

2263
03:24:23,100 --> 03:24:28,780
It's managed to revise the parking that we wouldn't get with other developed projects downtown.

2264
03:24:29,500 --> 03:24:33,900
We don't have a lot of property downtown where we're going to see this built.

2265
03:24:34,300 --> 03:24:34,860
Okay.

2266
03:24:36,300 --> 03:24:36,520
Yeah.

2267
03:24:40,950 --> 03:24:41,210
Yeah.

2268
03:24:41,370 --> 03:24:42,190
So I would support.

2269
03:24:43,970 --> 03:24:44,190
Yes.

2270
03:24:47,300 --> 03:24:51,500
This is the hardest decision that I'm making.

2271
03:24:52,280 --> 03:24:54,900
Believe it or not, I'm still in between.

2272
03:24:55,580 --> 03:24:59,960
So I'm listening to every single person in addition to their council meeting.

2273
03:25:01,420 --> 03:25:23,180
If it were the first time presenting this project, I will say definitely no. But after taking a long, long time to present things, to change things, I think it's a bad message that we are sending to investors.

2274
03:25:23,180 --> 03:25:38,740
And I worked in the business that I saw how it is frustrated and losing of time and money when I'm trying to present something to take a permit from the city, and they delay delay delay.

2275
03:25:40,460 --> 03:25:45,720
And when we delay there was like a hope that it will be approved.

2276
03:25:45,720 --> 03:25:50,740
That's the intention, of course, from investor,

2277
03:25:51,800 --> 03:25:54,380
why I delayed for something.

2278
03:25:56,080 --> 03:26:00,920
That's part, the other part, I enjoyed actually

2279
03:26:02,480 --> 03:26:07,460
sitting with the neighborhood members.

2280
03:26:08,200 --> 03:26:09,600
And I learned a lot from you.

2281
03:26:10,180 --> 03:26:12,600
And everything, actually, I learned from you.

2282
03:26:12,760 --> 03:26:15,580
And I took, I sent it to you.

2283
03:26:15,580 --> 03:26:19,940
send it to investor helping for information.

2284
03:26:20,540 --> 03:26:25,360
And if I don't like it, I definitely tell them that I don't like it, or we need to do that.

2285
03:26:25,480 --> 03:26:28,420
And the issue of me at the beginning that I presented these issues.

2286
03:26:29,360 --> 03:26:32,280
As they said, is this the perfect one?

2287
03:26:35,380 --> 03:26:39,000
But there are issues of there are things that we have to put in mind.

2288
03:26:39,880 --> 03:26:45,180
As they said, for a business perspective, like we have to respect the investors their time

2289
03:26:45,180 --> 03:26:50,960
and money, of course, the time that they took, actually, that to work on that.

2290
03:26:52,420 --> 03:27:00,100
For the people, of course, who respect that, and then my perspective is that we are losing money,

2291
03:27:00,420 --> 03:27:01,960
if we turn out, this project.

2292
03:27:03,060 --> 03:27:10,160
As you know, that, I mean, we would like the city of Elias on the taxes, and we are actually losing taxes from

2293
03:27:10,160 --> 03:27:16,200
name you number one and there are businesses are leaving also because of the high taxes.

2294
03:27:17,060 --> 03:27:24,700
So the city will definitely go after us for our property and real estate to raise the taxes.

2295
03:27:24,920 --> 03:27:26,020
Of course for their expenses.

2296
03:27:27,420 --> 03:27:34,200
And when I run actually for their disposition I promise myself to prevent any raise of taxes

2297
03:27:34,200 --> 03:27:41,320
because as a farmer, I feel how hard it is, and as you are as a retirees or as any singles,

2298
03:27:41,740 --> 03:27:49,180
it's also hard on them. So if we having it as a park, which is something that I like to have it,

2299
03:27:49,360 --> 03:27:58,500
but what is the revenue coming back to the city? How we can compensate that to the city? How

2300
03:27:58,500 --> 03:28:04,200
the city can pay for the expenses for the schools, for the public works.

2301
03:28:05,000 --> 03:28:16,340
So a lot of issues actually inside me trying to decide or give a side to be on this side or this side.

2302
03:28:17,600 --> 03:28:28,480
I think to that, like some other cities, they really give incentives for investors to come and do the work here.

2303
03:28:28,480 --> 03:28:38,300
especially for college domes. I went to Virginia Tech and they saw how it is kind of similar

2304
03:28:38,920 --> 03:28:45,660
to Jim to Harrison Burke. Harrison Burke is getting bigger and bigger. And we have to admit

2305
03:28:45,660 --> 03:28:53,600
this is a college domes. Believe it or not, a lot of our business is actually based on the

2306
03:28:53,600 --> 03:29:00,280
you and also the students. If we compare it to any other city, we see Jason Harrisonburg

2307
03:29:00,280 --> 03:29:07,480
is the lead and whenever I go actually in every conference I'm proud of being from Harrisonburg

2308
03:29:07,480 --> 03:29:16,800
and the work that the city is doing. So that's that's the reality and when it comes to

2309
03:29:17,800 --> 03:29:23,220
like it or don't like it. Of course, we have to take it into consideration.

2310
03:29:25,780 --> 03:29:26,280
But yeah,

2311
03:29:26,700 --> 03:29:30,600
at the end, I mean, we have to support our city as well.

2312
03:29:32,560 --> 03:29:37,640
Okay. Well, let's make a motion. Is there a motion?

2313
03:29:39,140 --> 03:29:44,460
Madam Mayor, I move that we approve the rezoning of this property with the various

2314
03:29:44,460 --> 03:29:49,020
address this, right? As presented by staff,

2315
03:29:51,630 --> 03:29:53,970
we can't keep having the conversation across.

2316
03:29:56,620 --> 03:29:59,960
Say it again more. I move that we have-

2317
03:30:00,000 --> 03:30:06,460
Through the rezoning to be one sea of the property to be known as the Lensley, with the addresses I don't

2318
03:30:06,460 --> 03:30:16,960
have on the top of my head, all right. 435 and so forth, South Main Street and 282 and so forth,

2319
03:30:17,140 --> 03:30:21,260
South Liberty Street, the Lensley Apartments, as presented by South. That's sufficient.

2320
03:30:24,880 --> 03:30:27,240
All right, how's that count out? Any more discussion?

2321
03:30:31,920 --> 03:30:35,440
No, no, we cannot do that. We cannot do that.

2322
03:30:35,480 --> 03:30:36,960
Yeah, we'll let down

2323
03:30:40,710 --> 03:30:41,530
any more discussion?

2324
03:30:41,990 --> 03:30:43,110
No, ma'am.

2325
03:30:43,450 --> 03:30:44,870
Roll call please. Amy.

2326
03:30:48,230 --> 03:30:48,930
Vice Mayor Fleming.

2327
03:30:49,490 --> 03:30:49,770
Aye.

2328
03:30:52,210 --> 03:30:53,330
Councilmember Alcidun.

2329
03:30:54,010 --> 03:30:54,270
Aye.

2330
03:30:54,630 --> 03:30:55,530
Councilmember Dent.

2331
03:30:55,890 --> 03:30:56,150
Aye.

2332
03:30:56,710 --> 03:30:57,550
Councilmember Robinson.

2333
03:30:58,250 --> 03:30:58,430
No.

2334
03:30:59,070 --> 03:30:59,670
Mayer Reed.

2335
03:31:00,290 --> 03:31:00,310
No.

2336
03:31:09,200 --> 03:31:10,720
All right, let's go to Redra items.

2337
03:31:15,050 --> 03:31:16,130
We'll see if you're in there.

2338
03:31:23,220 --> 03:31:24,340
I want to be able to talk to you.

2339
03:31:24,940 --> 03:31:25,500
You're welcome.

2340
03:31:25,680 --> 03:31:25,740
You're welcome.

2341
03:31:25,740 --> 03:31:28,860
Go on out, please. Go on out, please. Go on out.

2342
03:32:01,650 --> 03:32:02,130
Okay,

2343
03:32:07,250 --> 03:32:08,050
regular items.

2344
03:32:12,280 --> 03:32:14,860
Thank you, Madam Mayor, Adam Flutter, Director of Community Development.

2345
03:32:15,580 --> 03:32:19,260
I have just a quick item here for you.

2346
03:32:19,280 --> 03:32:21,220
If you recall two weeks ago, I'll get the 11th.

2347
03:32:21,220 --> 03:32:24,100
I was here presenting to you the subdivision ordinance amendments

2348
03:32:24,100 --> 03:32:32,180
that were relatively thorough. I need you out to go out of. So we could finish that. Thank you.

2349
03:32:35,780 --> 03:32:40,420
There were rather comprehensive with regard to state code changes that occurred in 2025.

2350
03:32:41,380 --> 03:32:46,680
And we were fully expecting this to be on the consent agenda this evening, but then at a very

2351
03:32:46,680 --> 03:32:52,980
last minute. In fact, some meetings that we had just last week, it occurred to us that if the

2352
03:32:52,980 --> 03:32:59,800
definition went forward, as presented, that was in the documents from last week or from

2353
03:32:59,800 --> 03:33:00,500
two weeks ago.

2354
03:33:00,880 --> 03:33:07,240
We had an unintended consequence to require improvements on small subdivisions and boundary

2355
03:33:07,240 --> 03:33:10,160
adjustments that we did not intend at all.

2356
03:33:11,020 --> 03:33:16,520
Right now, Article D of the subdivision regulations requires sub-deviders to make certain types

2357
03:33:16,520 --> 03:33:20,380
of improvements associated with streets and sidewalks into provide adequate drainage, water

2358
03:33:20,380 --> 03:33:25,620
centric sewer and other utilities. And we fully require that and intended to require that for

2359
03:33:25,620 --> 03:33:30,080
subdivisions that are creating new lots. But we did not intend for that to be the case for

2360
03:33:30,080 --> 03:33:35,100
a lot of line adjustments and a lot of line vacations. So we requested for this to be pulled off

2361
03:33:35,100 --> 03:33:39,640
the consent agenda to make one final amendment. And that is what's shown in your pack at the

2362
03:33:39,640 --> 03:33:43,740
same evening to the definition of subdivision. It's the very last sentence that we're adding,

2363
03:33:43,900 --> 03:33:48,920
which is to clarify that for the purposes of article D, which is associated with making improvements

2364
03:33:48,920 --> 03:33:53,560
that a lot line adjustment or a lot line vacation does not create an additional

2365
03:33:53,560 --> 03:33:57,260
watch of not constitute a subdivision and that is to protect what we

2366
03:33:57,260 --> 03:34:01,060
intended originally. And I will try to answer any questions you might have.

2367
03:34:01,340 --> 03:34:01,840
Any questions?

2368
03:34:03,540 --> 03:34:05,680
All right. Thank you, Adam. Motion, please.

2369
03:34:11,780 --> 03:34:18,120
I move to your approval request to amend the subdivision

2370
03:34:18,120 --> 03:34:22,840
audience and as presented by the staff. I'll second that.

2371
03:34:22,840 --> 03:34:24,360
Any discussion?

2372
03:34:26,950 --> 03:34:27,990
We'll go up, please. Amy.

2373
03:34:28,670 --> 03:34:29,450
Vice Mayor Fleming.

2374
03:34:30,130 --> 03:34:31,190
Councilmember Alcidoon.

2375
03:34:32,070 --> 03:34:33,030
Councilmember Dent.

2376
03:34:33,570 --> 03:34:34,470
Councilmember Robinson.

2377
03:34:34,810 --> 03:34:35,090
Hi.

2378
03:34:35,390 --> 03:34:35,670
Mary.

2379
03:34:38,130 --> 03:34:38,310
All right.

2380
03:34:38,450 --> 03:34:39,650
We're going to other matters.

2381
03:34:39,890 --> 03:34:42,790
Comments from the public limited it to five minutes.

2382
03:34:43,570 --> 03:34:45,470
Matters and not on the regular agenda.

2383
03:34:46,130 --> 03:34:47,330
Any wishes to speak.

2384
03:34:47,670 --> 03:34:48,730
Please state your name, address.

2385
03:34:49,350 --> 03:34:50,010
Go five minutes.

2386
03:35:02,930 --> 03:35:32,010
At a mayor of New York to see on a kudos city resident, this is my first time speaking since the recent election, and I was saying, please to hear a fellow economist say something about representative samples and actually I think meant to say, stationary process from which you can potentially learn, which gets us around, I think a hard time making representative samples, but.

2387
03:35:34,770 --> 03:35:44,530
We got to see a couple of folks who were completely new to politics, go from nothing at all to

2388
03:35:45,480 --> 03:35:51,290
winning two precincts and coming within 10% of two others on election day.

2389
03:35:52,810 --> 03:35:59,570
I think that that's a message about where our community stands, the promise that went along

2390
03:35:59,570 --> 03:36:06,710
with those hundreds nearly a thousand ballot access signatures was we're going to have a discussion

2391
03:36:06,710 --> 03:36:17,290
of the community's issues and I think despite the primary being suppressed in that small

2392
03:36:17,290 --> 03:36:25,450
somewhat representative sample we got a message about things that are valuable to our community.

2393
03:36:27,660 --> 03:36:57,520
As we go forward with difficult decisions that we've made, if we continue to treat parts of our community as nobody and continue to suppress them, we're going to get decay in our community and that's going to hit our tax base because without a robust economy we're not going to get the cash flows that validate the decisions that we make in housing.

2394
03:36:59,220 --> 03:37:07,480
If we make Harrisonburg a unwelcoming place to live and last time we heard

2395
03:37:07,480 --> 03:37:13,740
eloquent words from Madam Mayor about people being able to live anywhere in the community,

2396
03:37:15,080 --> 03:37:20,360
if that's not true of our community, if people are getting pushed and marginalized

2397
03:37:20,960 --> 03:37:26,360
and feeling that they're suppressed everywhere they go, that's going to have a dampening effect

2398
03:37:26,360 --> 03:37:32,740
On our economy, on our social fabric, it's going to hit our tax base.

2399
03:37:33,560 --> 03:37:37,260
So anything else that we do is going to be nullified by that.

2400
03:37:37,820 --> 03:37:49,220
If we have staff that treats people as riff-rath that treats people as if they are nobody,

2401
03:37:49,220 --> 03:37:56,700
the treats people such that no matter what they say no matter what the evidence is, we're

2402
03:37:56,700 --> 03:38:03,360
going to do to them whatever we want. That's going to send a message that's going to dishearten

2403
03:38:03,360 --> 03:38:11,240
our city and all the other things that we try to do are going to end up delivering a downward

2404
03:38:11,240 --> 03:38:18,260
spiral that will make Harrisonburg less attractive than the other cities that are in the pack,

2405
03:38:18,260 --> 03:38:26,780
competing with us. Now, the city has taken positions like this, that they can do whatever they want,

2406
03:38:27,100 --> 03:38:32,600
to anybody and we have no recourse. If we're in chapter 15, 22, 22,

2407
03:38:32,600 --> 03:38:37,900
if we're a developer, we have recourse. We have a cause of action. Thanks to Scott Survelle,

2408
03:38:38,440 --> 03:38:43,520
but if we're in 15, 2, 9, we have no recourse. The city can do anything they want.

2409
03:38:43,520 --> 03:38:52,200
And that's a message that our recent election told us is heard by a large portion of our population,

2410
03:38:52,960 --> 03:38:58,520
a third to our half of our democratic vote, and they don't like it.

2411
03:38:59,240 --> 03:39:00,720
Maybe you can push them down.

2412
03:39:01,000 --> 03:39:02,620
Maybe you can defeat them.

2413
03:39:02,920 --> 03:39:07,840
Maybe you can by using these and elbows when, but your city's going to decay.

2414
03:39:09,000 --> 03:39:09,760
Thank you, Madam Mayor.

2415
03:39:09,920 --> 03:39:10,820
Thank you.

2416
03:39:10,820 --> 03:39:12,300
Anyone else

2417
03:39:15,600 --> 03:39:18,940
seeing an unimperson, Amy, do we have any colors?

2418
03:39:32,740 --> 03:39:33,740
Very, there are no colors.

2419
03:39:34,320 --> 03:39:35,720
Thank you.

2420
03:39:35,720 --> 03:39:38,400
With those public comments.

2421
03:39:40,100 --> 03:39:44,180
Councilwoman Denol, let you go first, because I know you had some things to talk about.

2422
03:39:44,460 --> 03:39:45,320
Me, yes, I think.

2423
03:39:46,240 --> 03:39:47,640
I have several things.

2424
03:39:49,780 --> 03:39:57,280
I've requested to be on next council agenda, two of which have very firm deadlines.

2425
03:39:57,280 --> 03:39:59,500
one that has a slightly softer deadline.

2426
03:40:00,000 --> 03:40:12,640
The firm deadlines are, I'm recommending or advocating for the city to file as a participant in the hearings on the dominion next era merger.

2427
03:40:13,300 --> 03:40:20,960
Now, we can file to be just a participant in order to listen to the proceedings without having to take a specific position.

2428
03:40:20,960 --> 03:40:26,420
We've had discussions with HEC, director, Brian O'Dell.

2429
03:40:26,840 --> 03:40:31,160
They have some very specific things that they're asking for, participation from municipal

2430
03:40:31,160 --> 03:40:32,000
utilities.

2431
03:40:32,560 --> 03:40:33,740
And we support that.

2432
03:40:33,740 --> 03:40:38,080
And I'd like to also advance our clean energy goals that we've adopted.

2433
03:40:38,980 --> 03:40:44,540
So the reason that's crucial for September 8th is that the deadline to file for that is

2434
03:40:44,540 --> 03:40:45,880
September 11th.

2435
03:40:45,880 --> 03:40:56,900
So I've talked with city manager in city attorney about this and talked with some of the advocates and especially Alexandria that's very experienced into this kind of work.

2436
03:40:57,140 --> 03:41:02,880
So that's the first thing. The second thing that has a hard deadline is to

2437
03:41:04,100 --> 03:41:10,920
Contest the repeal of the roadless rule that has a deadline of September 21st, and for instance,

2438
03:41:11,100 --> 03:41:18,920
the friends of Shenandoah Mountain that is advocating for a scenic and wilderness areas recommending that we push back on that.

2439
03:41:19,240 --> 03:41:32,760
So, again, those are two things I've talked about the Dominion merger, and now the roadless rule that I would like for us to consider and vote on submitting

2440
03:41:32,760 --> 03:41:36,380
our file

2441
03:41:38,680 --> 03:41:44,860
to participate in the Dominion merger, and is it a public comment on behalf of the

2442
03:41:44,860 --> 03:41:49,620
city I believe for the roadless rule? I'm not sure exactly. Okay, and the other thing that

2443
03:41:49,620 --> 03:41:59,260
actually is going on is we're having the presentation about the proposal for Council to submit

2444
03:41:59,260 --> 03:42:05,900
a request to the Department of Rail and Public Transit to recommend that we get on the plan

2445
03:42:05,900 --> 03:42:08,320
for passenger railed Harrisonburg.

2446
03:42:08,800 --> 03:42:16,720
Now I've joined the steering committee for the Blue Ridge Rail group that's a local advocacy

2447
03:42:16,720 --> 03:42:18,760
group saying we need rail here.

2448
03:42:19,240 --> 03:42:26,640
Now the DRPT deadline is September 30th, so ideally if we agree and pass a letter September

2449
03:42:26,640 --> 03:42:32,980
It's great, but we have a little flexibility with it also past the second meeting in November.

2450
03:42:34,080 --> 03:42:35,080
So, I mean, just September.

2451
03:42:35,640 --> 03:42:38,020
So, I'll send those things around as best I can, whatever.

2452
03:42:38,260 --> 03:42:46,100
I've got the meeting with the rail people tomorrow, and I've got city attorney looking

2453
03:42:46,100 --> 03:42:48,720
into the participation and so on.

2454
03:42:48,840 --> 03:42:52,660
So, there will be more that we have to hammer out by that meeting, but those are the three

2455
03:42:52,660 --> 03:42:56,500
things that are I'm just putting on the agenda, because we need to.

2456
03:42:56,500 --> 03:42:56,780
Okay.

2457
03:42:57,180 --> 03:42:57,780
That's it.

2458
03:42:58,400 --> 03:43:03,860
And in other news, I had a meeting with Ben Klein today of all people.

2459
03:43:04,180 --> 03:43:08,180
And I found that we were a lot more on the same page than I would have thought.

2460
03:43:08,440 --> 03:43:14,060
For instance, what I was doing was proposing that he please support, I know it's not

2461
03:43:14,060 --> 03:43:14,340
likely.

2462
03:43:15,640 --> 03:43:22,580
The energy bills relief act, which is about lowering energy bills, expanding clean energy,

2463
03:43:22,580 --> 03:43:27,760
And he said, well, it looks like it's bringing back the IRA inflation reduction act and said,

2464
03:43:27,820 --> 03:43:28,380
well, yeah.

2465
03:43:30,620 --> 03:43:33,680
But, and I said, if you can't go that far, it's a negotiation.

2466
03:43:34,080 --> 03:43:35,380
Anyway, we had a good discussion.

2467
03:43:35,680 --> 03:43:40,840
And for instance, the thing that he said surprisingly, he's in the appropriations committee,

2468
03:43:41,540 --> 03:43:46,620
and he supported an amendment that didn't go through that I liked a lot.

2469
03:43:46,620 --> 03:43:54,140
He said, there needs to be publicly available information on data centers, including those that

2470
03:43:54,140 --> 03:43:55,100
have been proposed.

2471
03:43:55,200 --> 03:43:56,000
I said, good.

2472
03:43:56,040 --> 03:43:57,360
I don't like those NDAs.

2473
03:43:57,520 --> 03:43:58,240
He said, I don't either.

2474
03:43:58,860 --> 03:44:00,860
So yeah, we had something to agree on.

2475
03:44:01,420 --> 03:44:05,100
So yeah, that's all very fruitful to keep the discussion going.

2476
03:44:06,080 --> 03:44:14,000
And one final thing I'd like to mention, the sustainability success summit that EPSAC has

2477
03:44:14,000 --> 03:44:24,260
created. It's happening Friday, September 18th, 830 to 1 at Sims. So again, I'll talk

2478
03:44:24,260 --> 03:44:31,760
about that again next time, but that's a great local environmental summit with multiple

2479
03:44:31,760 --> 03:44:36,640
stakeholders presenting and talking about the successes and what more we need to work on

2480
03:44:36,640 --> 03:44:44,760
environment. That's all. Yes, the only thing I have is that they mail that I sent to you

2481
03:44:44,760 --> 03:44:53,620
asking you to sign it. This unbranded partisan letter to be sent to that state department

2482
03:44:53,620 --> 03:44:59,960
affirming our communities, our ready to play their parts and rebuildings.

2483
03:45:00,340 --> 03:45:11,140
Of a future program that is fair, secure and economically beneficial and reflective of our nation's foundational freedoms.

2484
03:45:12,140 --> 03:45:16,020
Thank you. Thank you all, guys. Thank you so much.

2485
03:45:16,160 --> 03:45:18,540
You're welcome to sign. Thank you.

2486
03:45:19,700 --> 03:45:24,460
First, I wanted to tell you all about a workshop that we are having.

2487
03:45:24,460 --> 03:45:29,260
We've been to no valley black heritage project this coming up Saturday at the Nina Center.

2488
03:45:29,620 --> 03:45:33,720
We've been working with researchers from William and Mary's Institute for Historical Biology.

2489
03:45:34,500 --> 03:45:43,340
And we will be holding a discussion and workshop focused on resistance and self-immancipation by utilizing runaway ads from historic newspapers.

2490
03:45:44,120 --> 03:45:48,540
We're going to learn about, um, enslaved people, their lives and ways, they've resisted against enslavement,

2491
03:45:48,540 --> 03:45:55,240
statement but also how you use those running way adds in your genealogy research and so it's

2492
03:45:55,240 --> 03:46:00,980
going to be this coming up Saturday from 11 to 1 and we're feeding you.

2493
03:46:01,440 --> 03:46:10,880
Let's see also September 2nd through the 4th I will be participating in a CCJB community

2494
03:46:10,880 --> 03:46:19,120
criminal justice board forum and Charlotte's bill and we'll be talking about how we can

2495
03:46:19,120 --> 03:46:30,940
more how our CCJB boards can be improved and be more effective. So I'm really looking forward

2496
03:46:30,940 --> 03:46:36,640
to working with different groups from all across the state. I know Abigail, I'm

2497
03:46:36,640 --> 03:46:43,260
new, um, um, a scary say prosecuting attorney and that is not right. But with defender,

2498
03:46:50,500 --> 03:46:50,540
I'm

2499
03:46:50,540 --> 03:46:57,520
on how others across the state utilize how their boards set up if they have bylaws and so forth.

2500
03:46:59,360 --> 03:47:03,940
And also, your abstract thing, Laura, that you're just talking about, actually I'm going

2501
03:47:03,940 --> 03:47:10,640
to be one of the purers, we're going to do an workshop or just something on a panel, a panel

2502
03:47:10,640 --> 03:47:11,500
that's in the hall.

2503
03:47:11,820 --> 03:47:12,720
And that's it.

2504
03:47:12,720 --> 03:47:15,040
It's a good, nice meeting.

2505
03:47:19,000 --> 03:47:22,000
Adam meeting with our

2506
03:47:24,140 --> 03:47:28,460
Southern City's Economic Initiative with the peerers back home development

2507
03:47:28,460 --> 03:47:40,420
with NLC folks there and so we had our first round of applicants finish up their participation

2508
03:47:40,420 --> 03:47:44,840
in that small business project and we had some additional consulting time left for all of

2509
03:47:44,840 --> 03:47:51,120
which they got some free consulting time when we're starting up a new group of small businesses.

2510
03:47:51,820 --> 03:47:58,700
In October I believe we'll be starting up in the way the applications are and in September I believe.

2511
03:47:59,360 --> 03:48:08,900
So we'll have a new round of small businesses going through our training and planning process which ends up with the grant.

2512
03:48:08,900 --> 03:48:21,060
And we'll say the folks who are at the line of Fed and I'll see, they're just always

2513
03:48:21,060 --> 03:48:26,420
so complimentary of our economic development staff.

2514
03:48:27,780 --> 03:48:34,080
They work with cities all over the South, there are 14 other cities, and they consistently

2515
03:48:34,080 --> 03:48:45,420
I talk about how our staff delivers really the best and the most thorough work on this

2516
03:48:45,420 --> 03:48:45,760
project.

2517
03:48:46,780 --> 03:48:49,240
So, that's about it.

2518
03:48:54,270 --> 03:49:04,890
I couldn't remember if we were at some rock town, the last week, it was after, yeah, so this

2519
03:49:04,890 --> 03:49:08,150
would, the 13th, I think we had City Council in life.

2520
03:49:08,850 --> 03:49:11,710
So we had the Ribbon Cutting, Center Money for Simpsies

2521
03:49:11,710 --> 03:49:13,330
of it at Rocktown High School.

2522
03:49:16,350 --> 03:49:19,990
Also, I'm not sure if I know Andy is now.

2523
03:49:22,390 --> 03:49:26,970
Pastor that was here for Harrison Bird, Baptist Church.

2524
03:49:27,450 --> 03:49:31,650
They do a prayer for us every Monday,

2525
03:49:32,790 --> 03:49:40,330
And I actually went to the 17th and they actually come and they pray over our building.

2526
03:49:40,710 --> 03:49:43,350
Did you know they walked around the building and they prayed at the place?

2527
03:49:44,030 --> 03:49:47,770
So, but I went to the first Baptist.

2528
03:49:48,370 --> 03:49:51,030
I mean, the church right down here.

2529
03:49:51,650 --> 03:49:51,970
So, nice.

2530
03:49:52,530 --> 03:49:53,690
It is actually beautiful.

2531
03:49:54,570 --> 03:49:58,250
And most of some of them were here, actually, to that tonight.

2532
03:49:58,730 --> 03:49:59,950
Well, on my days at 10 o'clock

2533
03:50:02,520 --> 03:50:09,960
So I went, I'll probably go back, is a group of them that they pray for our city and they pray for us as leaders.

2534
03:50:11,280 --> 03:50:21,360
I also spoke to 140 D-Mad students at JMU Duke's making a difference,

2535
03:50:23,740 --> 03:50:25,680
and that was a great

2536
03:50:25,680 --> 03:50:26,360
event.

2537
03:50:26,760 --> 03:50:27,820
There always is.

2538
03:50:28,000 --> 03:50:35,560
We had a presidential address at JMU where we heard from all the presidents, so we heard

2539
03:50:35,560 --> 03:50:39,660
from President Schmidt, President Dijk as President Bushman,

2540
03:50:39,660 --> 03:50:44,220
Bridgewater, and President Downey, as well.

2541
03:50:44,440 --> 03:50:47,060
And then this morning, a seminar, I was speaking

2542
03:50:47,060 --> 03:50:48,040
at the rotary.

2543
03:50:49,260 --> 03:50:51,900
So I've been up to me, I've been up to Mimpo.

2544
03:50:53,480 --> 03:50:57,680
But as that's the rotary, this morning, speaking to them as well.

2545
03:51:00,380 --> 03:51:05,040
Yeah, so I'm like, Monica, I'm going to try

2546
03:51:05,040 --> 03:51:15,960
to get to your event, but it's also 29, is EMU moving and I have to speak there. And here's

2547
03:51:15,960 --> 03:51:21,400
the block party. Here excuse. It'll be this. It's the block party as well.

2548
03:51:21,400 --> 03:51:25,860
There'll be the block party. Yeah. So it's a couple of things going on Saturday.

2549
03:51:28,700 --> 03:51:31,340
Okay, that's all I got, did you manage her?

2550
03:51:31,440 --> 03:51:32,240
No, man.

2551
03:51:35,250 --> 03:51:36,110
Okay, she's back here typing.

2552
03:51:37,310 --> 03:51:37,630
Thank you.

2553
03:51:38,150 --> 03:51:38,870
Have a good evening.

2554
03:51:39,270 --> 03:51:40,510
Go to be it.

2555
03:51:40,530 --> 03:51:41,490
Meeting adjourns.