[0:00] Good evening. I would like to call the
[0:02] July 13, 2026 Hillyard City Council
[0:05] Committee of the Whole meeting to order.
[0:08] Would the clerk please call the role?
[0:10] >> Mr. Betts
[0:11] » Mr. Betts
[0:11] >> here.
[0:12] » here.
[0:12] >> Vice President Katon
[0:14] » Vice President Katon
[0:14] >> here.
[0:15] » here.
[0:15] >> Miss Parker Jones
[0:16] » Miss Parker Jones
[0:16] >> here.
[0:17] » here.
[0:17] >> Miss Razul
[0:18] » Miss Razul
[0:18] >> here.
[0:19] » here.
[0:19] >> Mr. Teter is excused. Miss Vermillion
[0:22] » Mr. Teter is excused. Miss Vermillion
[0:22] >> here.
[0:22] » here.
[0:22] >> And President Cole
[0:23] » And President Cole
[0:23] >> here. Council has copies of the June
[0:26] » here. Council has copies of the June
[0:26] 22nd, 2026 committee of the whole
[0:28] meeting minutes. Are there any changes
[0:30] or corrections?
[0:33] Hearing none, these minutes are approved
[0:34] as submitted. There's one item of
[0:36] business on tonight's agenda, which is
[0:38] an update and discussion on ebikes and e
[0:41] scooters. Um, with that, I'll turn it
[0:42] over to city manager Roush.
[0:44] >> Thank you, President Cole. We're going
[0:47] » Thank you, President Cole. We're going
[0:47] to get this presentation queued up here.
[0:49] I'm trying something a little bit
[0:50] different. I can drive if uh it's Nope,
[0:53] you're good. We're um I've used
[0:55] PowerPoint in the past, but this is a a
[0:57] different kind of a tool called Prey,
[0:59] which uh is a little bit more animated
[1:02] in some respects, but um I'll walk you
[1:05] through actually. Could you hit your
[1:07] escape key, please?
[1:09] Thank you.
[1:12] Let's go back here real quick.
[1:15] There we go. You got to get to the part
[1:17] that actually shows the title. So, um, I
[1:20] wanted to provide council and the public
[1:22] with just an update on sort of where we
[1:24] are in this conversation with respect to
[1:26] ebikes, ecooters, and let's say
[1:29] microobility devices. It's a pretty
[1:31] broad um, umbrella. So, of course, you
[1:34] know, just to help illustrate the point,
[1:35] we have here a picture of said example
[1:38] of said device uh, which is an e
[1:41] scooter. But I think the first and most
[1:43] important place to start in this
[1:44] conversation is to really define our
[1:46] terms. So there's a term all over our
[1:48] code, micromobility, and you'll see this
[1:51] term other places as well. And that
[1:53] immediately in my mind at least conjures
[1:55] questions like micro micro what? Because
[1:58] a micromobility device can uh
[2:01] encompasses a wide range of things with
[2:04] wheels. Some of them have pedals, some
[2:07] of them don't. Some of them require
[2:09] human power, some of them don't. and our
[2:13] um our staff and our attorneys uh in in
[2:16] consultation collaboration with other
[2:18] municipalities as well have helped to
[2:21] pull together a matrix of some examples
[2:23] of what these kinds of vehicles look
[2:25] like. And so to start out here, of
[2:27] course, we have the very familiar
[2:28] bicycle
[2:30] as well as a class one and two ebike,
[2:32] which those are the bikes that generally
[2:34] go less than 20 m an hour with a motor
[2:36] assist. A class 3 ebike uh generally
[2:39] will go up to I believe it's 28 m an
[2:42] hour. And then you have all sorts of
[2:44] other devices on wheels. Those could be
[2:45] skateboards, rollerblades, scooters,
[2:49] electric skateboards, electric versions
[2:51] of all of these things, golf carts, high
[2:54] and low speed, motorized bicycles and
[2:57] mopeds, miniature motorcycles. Uh we
[3:01] have here shared and rented microobility
[3:03] devices. If you've ever been, I think
[3:05] Cincinnati has some, the the Lime
[3:08] bicycles or I know out in DC they're
[3:09] popular as well. Personal assisted
[3:12] mobility devices, just the devices that
[3:14] folks are using to get around every day.
[3:16] And then I've got down here at the
[3:18] bottom things like Emotos, uh, which are
[3:21] available on Amazon, which are are kind
[3:23] of a, um, a not well-defined, uh, mashup
[3:28] of some of these things, too. You can go
[3:29] out and and buy them from Costco or
[3:31] Amazon, for example. Or another thing
[3:33] that's not listed here would be things
[3:34] like a hoverboard that have maybe one
[3:36] wheel or like a segue. You can rock them
[3:38] back and forth and go from there. I
[3:41] think the the main idea here though is
[3:43] that that's a lot of different kinds of
[3:45] vehicles and a lot of different
[3:47] permutations of wheels and motors and
[3:49] etc. that are all being used on our
[3:52] infrastructure. And so we have the I
[3:56] think the great advantage of living in a
[3:58] community that's been very diligent
[3:59] about building infrastructure for
[4:01] different kinds of uses. So everything
[4:03] from you know um nature trails. I have a
[4:07] couple from Hillyard proper but we have
[4:09] some nature trails, gravel trails,
[4:10] shared use paths. Uh this of course is a
[4:13] good example of some some kids riding in
[4:16] town. Some of these connect to parks
[4:18] like Hillyard Station Park. um other
[4:21] other folks are using bike lanes and
[4:23] shoulders of roads to commute to and
[4:25] from work. So you got a lot of different
[4:27] kinds of vehicles moving through and in
[4:31] our community on a lot of different
[4:32] kinds of infrastructure. And then we
[4:35] think about who's actually riding them
[4:37] and that's a lot of different kinds of
[4:39] people and a lot of different kinds of
[4:40] sets of circumstances. So, um, I was out
[4:44] actually Saturday. I went from my house
[4:46] down and just kind of went exploring a
[4:48] little bit and went all the way south
[4:50] and hopped into Columbus on Robert's
[4:52] Road. And so, you've got ballards and
[4:54] really protected lanes out there. But
[4:56] while I was out, I saw kids on scooters.
[4:59] I saw family cycling. Um, I saw folks
[5:02] running errands on on these kinds of
[5:04] devices, too. So, there's a lot of
[5:06] different contexts whether it's for
[5:08] exercise or recreation or trying to get
[5:10] to a place um or kids just out and about
[5:13] in the community that people are using
[5:16] these vehicles,
[5:18] which is sort of a long-winded way of
[5:20] saying this is a lot of stuff being used
[5:22] throughout the community in a lot of
[5:25] different ways. And so when we tend to
[5:28] hear feedback about this issue, we tend
[5:30] to hear that feedback from a wide
[5:32] variety of angles
[5:34] um about, you know, how people are using
[5:36] it and and then generally what the some
[5:40] questions about what the current rules
[5:41] and regulations about these vehicles
[5:43] are. So I want to give staff a lot of
[5:45] credit. Andrea and her team, Lety, Dan,
[5:48] Chief, um, everybody's been kind of
[5:50] knocking their heads together trying to
[5:52] kind of sort of synthesize on some level
[5:55] what the current rules and regulations
[5:57] say when it comes to these vehicles and
[5:59] how they should be used in the
[6:01] community. And Community Relations built
[6:04] a little web page, and if folks haven't
[6:06] seen it yet, it's right under the um the
[6:09] big menu under residents, there's ebike
[6:12] safety down here. Uh but in a nutshell,
[6:15] the goal of creating this web page was
[6:18] to just sort of outline a snapshot about
[6:20] currently speaking in our current codes
[6:23] and ordinances and how those intersect
[6:24] with state law today,
[6:27] what kind of are the rules about how
[6:29] these can be operated and where. So I
[6:31] won't go through and read you this
[6:33] entire web page, but I'll kind of hit
[6:34] some of the highlights here very
[6:35] quickly, which is that um there are
[6:38] multiple sections of our code that
[6:40] address where and how these vehicles can
[6:42] be used. One of the most um one one of
[6:46] the bigger sections I should say is
[6:47] chapter 373 which involves the traffic
[6:50] code and there's a whole section about
[6:52] ebikes, mopeds, scooters and these kinds
[6:54] of of vehicles. There are other sections
[6:56] of our code that talk about specifically
[6:58] with parks and how these things can be
[7:00] used in parks. But for the time being, I
[7:03] think it's instructive to just kind of
[7:04] look at the traffic code pieces of this
[7:07] and to think about how the traffic code
[7:10] currently defines them. So, we just
[7:12] talked about what a broad spectrum of
[7:13] vehicles this can include. Um, our
[7:16] definitions tend to focus on ebikes and
[7:19] then other microobility devices, if you
[7:21] will. So, we we follow the same
[7:25] classification structure as the state.
[7:26] So, everything from a class one to a
[7:28] class 3 ebike. um other a a any other
[7:32] vehicle um is a it is a low-speed
[7:35] micromobility device if it weighs less
[7:37] than 100 lb, if it has handlebars, and
[7:40] if it's propelled uh by a motor or human
[7:42] power. But you'll notice like even in
[7:44] that definition, the requirement that it
[7:46] has handlebars sort of excludes some of
[7:48] the vehicles that we've talked about or
[7:50] that we've seen out in the community.
[7:52] So, I think there are opportunities
[7:53] coming our way to look at this
[7:55] definition and how we're defining things
[7:57] that are maybe a little bit more
[7:58] encompassing than what's currently in
[8:00] the code.
[8:02] As far as where folks can ride, the the
[8:05] main idea here is that class one and two
[8:08] ebikes, which if you will are the slower
[8:10] versions, um can go on streets and they
[8:13] can also go on shared use paths. If you
[8:15] go if you have a fast ebike, a class 3
[8:17] that can go up to 28 miles an hour, you
[8:20] can keep th you can ride those on
[8:21] streets and shared use paths, but that's
[8:24] where some of our extra requirements
[8:25] start to kick in. You're supposed to be
[8:27] 16. You're supposed to wear a helmet um
[8:29] because the bike can do more.
[8:33] You um are currently allowed to ride on
[8:35] sidewalks if your motor is not engaged.
[8:38] And um and as far as that you excuse me
[8:41] as far as the other regulations here go
[8:43] um the generally speaking ebikes,
[8:46] scooters, motorized vehicles are
[8:49] prohibited in parks including Hillary
[8:52] Hillyard Station Park and first
[8:53] responders park um unless you are in a
[8:56] bike lane. So if you're in HSP, you're
[8:58] supposed to basically stay in that bike
[9:00] lane as you're progressing through.
[9:03] Again, the only age and helmet
[9:04] requirement that we have right now to
[9:05] speak of is being 16 to operate a class
[9:08] 3 ebike and that you have to wear a
[9:11] helmet. But I will say that throughout
[9:13] this code, if you go through and look at
[9:15] it, there are all sorts of reminders
[9:19] candidly throughout the code that riders
[9:21] have responsibilities as well. So,
[9:22] you're allowed to take these vehicles
[9:24] out onto certain kinds of
[9:25] infrastructure, but you're supposed to
[9:26] be yielding to pedestrians. You're not
[9:28] supposed to be riding dangerously. So,
[9:31] at night, um, you know, or like trying
[9:33] to get too close to people, u, you're
[9:35] supposed to yield to pedestrians, those
[9:37] sorts of things. If you're riding
[9:39] recklessly or unsafeely, the code
[9:41] already provides that we can stop you,
[9:44] intervene, have a conversation, and talk
[9:46] about how you may be violating the
[9:47] current code.
[9:49] Um,
[9:51] so one of the things that we have done
[9:53] to try to remind folks about what the
[9:55] current rules are is to replace some of
[9:59] the signs out at at Hillyard Station
[10:01] Park. And here's a good example of a of
[10:03] a snapshot of one of those signs that
[10:04] was replaced.
[10:06] Um, we have taken some other steps that
[10:09] I'll get to here in just a couple of
[10:10] minutes. But the main idea is we're
[10:13] trying to create an awareness,
[10:14] especially at Hillyard Station Park and
[10:16] at first responders, that splash pads,
[10:18] for example, are not the intended
[10:21] infrastructure for scooters. Um, trying
[10:24] to create those spaces where pedestrians
[10:26] can congregate and feel safe in those
[10:29] areas without having people buzz
[10:31] through, buzz by, or otherwise create
[10:33] disturbances.
[10:37] So, I'm going to come back to this web
[10:38] page here in just a second, but this uh
[10:41] we have some feedback here that we'll
[10:43] get to, but I think the main idea is
[10:45] that reflecting on sort of what that
[10:47] current code says today, I think it
[10:50] captures pieces of what vehicles are out
[10:53] there and where they can ride, but it's
[10:54] not necessarily as encompassing as maybe
[10:58] um it could be, especially given where
[11:00] the market's going and how many of these
[11:02] vehicles come and go for sale on the
[11:05] internet and everything else.
[11:09] Give me one second here. All right. When
[11:12] we think about who's using these and
[11:14] where and in what context, anecdotally,
[11:19] um I will I would submit that a lot of
[11:21] the feedback that we get about improper
[11:24] usage tends to be on in the younger
[11:26] crowd. in the crowd that's out kind of
[11:29] out of the house, you know, especially
[11:31] now that it's summertime. Um, they're
[11:33] out visiting the parks. They're doing
[11:35] other things. They're using this, yes,
[11:36] to get from point A to point B. But a
[11:39] lot of the behaviors that I that we have
[11:41] heard about or I should say I've heard
[11:42] about have tended to involve, you know,
[11:44] somebody younger than 18 who's just
[11:46] getting too close to infants and
[11:48] toddlers on splash pads. Um, or who is
[11:51] who's maybe not paying as much attention
[11:53] as they should on a sidewalk and getting
[11:54] too close to somebody who's coming out
[11:56] of a business. those sorts of things. I
[11:59] don't know that the issue has been with
[12:01] commuters as much or with uh folks out
[12:05] uh you know wearing the Lycra trying to
[12:06] bust out miles on a on a weekend ride.
[12:09] Um certainly you know um interactions
[12:13] happen between all of these groups and
[12:15] pedestrians and other users of trails
[12:17] and the roadway. Um, but anecdotally,
[12:20] most of the feedback I think that we've
[12:21] gotten in the last since I've been here
[12:23] the last couple of months has been about
[12:25] the kids.
[12:27] So, what do we do about that? First
[12:29] thing is we replaced all the signs in
[12:31] Hillary Station Park. As I said, um, the
[12:34] police department has two SRO's who have
[12:37] been on bike patrols all summer long,
[12:39] and we've had a concerted effort of
[12:41] trying to engage with the kids out on
[12:44] these devices as we've seen them. Uh, I
[12:47] want to give Rita's a shout out because
[12:49] they gave us several hundred coupons. It
[12:51] was 500 plus um that we meaning the
[12:55] police department and some staff in R&P
[12:58] have proactively passed out to kids on
[13:01] these devices who've demonstrated good
[13:03] responsible behavior. We've passed out
[13:05] all the coupons that we were given. So,
[13:08] we've done quite a lot of engagement on
[13:10] the on the carrot end of things just to
[13:12] try to visit, remind, educate um what
[13:15] good writership looks like and how to
[13:18] operate on this infrastructure in a way
[13:20] that's responsible and doesn't make
[13:21] people feel uneasy.
[13:24] At the same time, one of the ordinances
[13:26] that will come before you this evening
[13:27] for a first reading uh involves some
[13:30] very straightforward changes that we
[13:32] could make to the code to chapter 373
[13:35] that I think are a first cut at um at
[13:39] trying to get ahead of this issue in a
[13:41] way that will let us be more proactive
[13:43] in the future. Uh so, for example, one
[13:45] of the one of the uh provisions of this
[13:47] ordinance would require helmets for any
[13:50] rider who's under 18 regardless of any
[13:52] vehicle that they're on. So if an
[13:54] officer or somebody in at R&P who's out
[13:56] working downtown sees a kid without a
[13:59] helmet, that creates a backing in the
[14:01] code for them to have a conversation to
[14:02] say, "Hey, it is a code requirement that
[14:04] you need to be wearing something if
[14:06] you're clear if they're a minor." The
[14:08] second thing the ordinance would do is
[14:10] clarify that parents are responsible um
[14:13] at the end of the day for the actions of
[14:14] their minor children. So, the ordinance
[14:16] would prohibit a parent from recklessly
[14:19] um in enabling their child to go out um
[14:22] and operate one of these vehicles in a
[14:23] way that endangers somebody. And the
[14:26] third thing is it would create the
[14:28] ability for the police department to
[14:29] impound these vehicles if they're being
[14:31] operated in a reckless manner. And what
[14:33] that would look like potentially is
[14:35] let's say a child maybe is warned or
[14:37] something and they continue to misbehave
[14:40] on the device. The police department
[14:42] could take it and hold that until a
[14:43] parent or guardian came to come pick it
[14:45] up. All of these changes I think are
[14:48] geared really at a at a broader issue
[14:51] which is starting a conversation in the
[14:53] community not just about what our code
[14:55] says but what about our expectations are
[14:58] as a community of each other. So to the
[15:01] extent that yes, there's an enforcement
[15:03] element here, there's an there's a piece
[15:05] of this that might require um police
[15:09] officers or R&P staff to have
[15:11] conversations. That's important. And
[15:12] it's important that we have the backing
[15:14] in the code to do that. But I also think
[15:16] it's important to equip our parents and
[15:18] to equip the schools and even the kids
[15:21] that are out operating these vehicles
[15:23] with something that just demonstrates
[15:25] what our understanding about responsible
[15:27] wrership looks like in this community.
[15:29] Um, and that we're going to we we
[15:31] believe that these things are important
[15:33] and have codified them in the code as a
[15:35] way of saying here's here's a base
[15:37] expectation
[15:38] candidly in a way that we do kind of for
[15:40] drivers as well. You know, we we
[15:42] establish speed limits. We all agree
[15:44] we're going to adhere to those. Um, does
[15:46] everybody all the time? Absolutely not.
[15:48] But the point is we've agreed that in
[15:51] general these are the principles by
[15:52] which we're going to drive our cars.
[15:58] So what's coming next I think is the the
[16:01] ordinance that before you is that is
[16:03] before you this evening later on is sort
[16:05] of the first blush at things that I
[16:07] think we could do relatively quickly. We
[16:10] could get to a second reading then in uh
[16:12] late August get that on the books and
[16:14] then start to do messaging and education
[16:17] from there. I do think there's a bigger
[16:19] conversation here when we zoom
[16:21] [clears throat] out and think about sort
[16:23] of the problem in general, if you will,
[16:25] which is that there's a piece of this
[16:27] that involves how are we defining these
[16:29] vehicles in the first place. Um, is it
[16:32] and and I think some of this really
[16:34] depends on trying to get a sense from
[16:36] the community about what feels
[16:38] intuitive.
[16:39] Uh, because I don't know, I'm speaking
[16:42] only for myself. I don't know that
[16:44] there's much of a difference between a
[16:45] set of rollerblades and a skateboard,
[16:48] you know, or or a scooter necessarily.
[16:50] Um, maybe an e scooter that can go a
[16:53] little bit faster is is something else.
[16:56] But where I'm going with that is
[16:58] depending on how folks intuitit this and
[17:01] think about it. Um, we should try to
[17:03] modulate the code so that it meets
[17:06] people uh where they where they are in
[17:09] terms of how we're thinking about this.
[17:10] In other words, does it make sense to
[17:12] make distinctions for every one of those
[17:14] categories in the code if folks by and
[17:17] large think of all these things as one
[17:19] big bucket of vehicles regardless of the
[17:22] flavor if you will. So how we define
[17:24] micro micromobility devices is one
[17:28] thing. The second thing is to think
[17:30] about where these devices are being
[17:33] operated and to get some feedback, I
[17:35] think, from the public about what the
[17:38] expectation is or ought to be. Um, in
[17:41] other words, if it makes more sense to
[17:44] to permit some kinds of vehicles to go
[17:46] in some places but not others, for
[17:48] example. Um, I don't know that, you
[17:52] know, permitting, just as a parent, I
[17:54] wouldn't want my kid taking an e-cooter
[17:56] on a an unpaved, very narrow nature
[18:00] trail. You know, it makes more sense to
[18:02] keep it on maybe a sidewalk or a shared
[18:04] use path. Um, but there are maybe
[18:06] certain kinds of infrastructure that
[18:08] it's more important to prioritize
[18:10] pedestrians, for example, or something
[18:12] like that. So thinking about that and
[18:14] also trying to balance that against I
[18:16] think the reality that we have a very
[18:18] strong network of different kinds of
[18:21] infrastructure that people are using to
[18:23] commute to shop to go do recreational
[18:26] things. And so we want to weigh these
[18:28] things effectively where we're enabling
[18:31] people to go do that to save car trips
[18:34] um you know to be healthy when they're
[18:36] out and about and and doing their
[18:37] business but also accommodating
[18:39] different kinds of vehicles that may go
[18:41] across that infrastructure. The third
[18:43] thing is what speed, operation limits,
[18:47] or what reckless behavior, if you will,
[18:49] might look like. And to try to gain a
[18:52] sense of that in order to help to help
[18:55] bake that into the code as well, so that
[18:57] we're giving, I think, everybody in the
[19:00] community if a sense of what what
[19:03] recklessness is, what too fast is on a
[19:06] sidewalk versus a shared use path or a
[19:08] road. Um, and really to gather that
[19:11] feedback from as many different kinds of
[19:13] groups as we can. So, we, you know, we
[19:16] have a list of HOAs, for example, that
[19:18] we can do some outreach to. Um, I had
[19:21] the good fortune of meeting, I think
[19:23] it's, um, it might be Bill with the
[19:26] cycle shop that's moving into downtown
[19:28] Hillyard. Um, and had a great
[19:30] conversation with him when I first
[19:31] started a couple months ago about this.
[19:33] So trying to get feedback from those
[19:35] stakeholders is important as well as our
[19:37] boards and commissions. So at last
[19:40] month's ESC meeting had a great
[19:42] conversation with the team there about
[19:44] this very issue and balancing the
[19:46] sustainability elements of this with the
[19:48] safety and and other concerns that
[19:50] people have. Um ARPAC or any of the
[19:52] other groups that we have trying to ga
[19:54] gauge those that feedback and those
[19:56] perceptions I think helps round out the
[19:58] conversation.
[20:00] online feedback is important and I'll
[20:02] come back to this page briefly. Um
[20:05] Andrea graciously built in we'll call it
[20:07] an informal survey. So there are some
[20:09] comment boxes and these are live right
[20:12] now so folks can go out and share some
[20:14] thoughts about these exact questions. Uh
[20:17] what how should we be defining micro
[20:19] mobility devices? Are there any kinds of
[20:21] vehicles we should be excluding? Are
[20:23] there places these vehicles should never
[20:24] go? uh what speed limits or behavior are
[20:28] appropriate based on the kinds of
[20:29] infrastructure. And we can ask these
[20:31] sorts of questions um of course to folks
[20:34] that fill out this form online, but also
[20:36] to all these other groups and
[20:38] potentially even do some sort of an
[20:39] in-house uh we could do an event at the
[20:42] well or a world cafe or something like
[20:44] that where we have an evening where
[20:45] people can come out, give their thoughts
[20:47] and opinions and gather all this
[20:48] feedback together.
[20:50] I think the idea then would be to take
[20:52] some of that and to really analyze it
[20:54] and step back and look at it and see
[20:56] what key themes come out of that. Um,
[20:59] and to then take that feedback and to
[21:01] start to tee up other suggested code
[21:04] changes that the community might want to
[21:06] see.
[21:07] Uh, so that could mean more detailed
[21:09] code updates. maybe an update that
[21:12] actually goes ahead and redefineses
[21:14] microobility across all of our code
[21:16] sections and seeks to unify the traffic
[21:18] pieces with the parks pieces and
[21:20] everything else. The other thing I think
[21:22] we we are intending to look at through
[21:25] this conversational lens is how we
[21:27] operate our own special events. So, I
[21:29] was at uh celebration last week. It was
[21:32] very crowded because we had a Taylor
[21:34] Swift cover band. They did an excellent
[21:36] job. Um, but there were kids there on
[21:39] scooters and a couple of times I didn't
[21:41] see anybody do anything that in my own
[21:43] view I thought was too reckless, but
[21:44] they were kind of zipping in between
[21:46] pedestrians every now and then. And I
[21:49] think that creates questions like should
[21:51] we develop rules that say something like
[21:53] when the city is sponsoring an event at
[21:55] Hillyard Station Park, you have to walk
[21:57] a device through the park just during
[21:59] that event window. Or maybe we require
[22:02] things like a corral. So you have to
[22:04] park the device at a designated area.
[22:07] It's like checking your luggage. You get
[22:08] a tag, you can come pick it up later.
[22:10] Those kinds of things are things we
[22:12] could think about.
[22:13] We also take that feedback then and and
[22:15] design or develop some educational
[22:18] outreach materials that we can use to
[22:20] round out how we're talking about it
[22:21] online, but also to engage the schools
[22:23] and our other partners in the community,
[22:25] other businesses um just to help get the
[22:28] messaging out about uh what the what the
[22:31] evolution of rules might look like uh in
[22:34] terms of where these things can go and
[22:36] how they should be operated.
[22:40] At the end of the day, I think the goal
[22:42] is to get to a place where we've had
[22:44] this conversation across all these
[22:46] different dimensions. And we've looked
[22:49] at that feedback and come up with
[22:50] something that's more well defined in
[22:53] terms of what the community expectation
[22:55] is about what these things are and how
[22:56] they should be used. We can bake those
[22:58] changes into our ordinances, into our
[23:01] codes. Um, and that allows us then to
[23:04] clarify the messaging and the education
[23:06] pieces about what is legal, what is not,
[23:10] what the enforcement expectations are,
[23:12] what we can reasonably accomplish in
[23:13] terms of enforcement.
[23:15] And then I can also take that, we as
[23:18] staff can take that and carry that
[23:20] forward uh, in terms of our
[23:22] conversations with other regions and
[23:23] with the state. Later this week on
[23:26] Thursday, the Dayton region is meeting.
[23:28] a lot of the cities and city managers
[23:29] over there are gathering together to
[23:32] come up with um they're having a
[23:34] basically a series of short meetings to
[23:36] develop a model ordinance if you will
[23:39] for how ebikes, emotos and vehicles like
[23:42] this can be regulated. Um I'm not sure
[23:45] I'll be interested to see where that
[23:46] goes because everybody's codes are so
[23:48] different. I don't know that one
[23:49] ordinance is going to capture all of
[23:51] this in every community. But I think a
[23:53] set of principles about how we talk
[23:55] about it, how we define it, how we
[23:57] communicate it is something that's
[23:58] really relevant. So I intend to take the
[24:01] outcome of this conversation and stay
[24:03] plugged into that one. And then we can
[24:06] carry the common themes of all of that
[24:09] forward over to the state house. So,
[24:11] there is a bill that was introduced um
[24:13] this session, HB948,
[24:16] which as currently drafted would require
[24:19] basically almost a driver's ed or some
[24:21] education that would have to be
[24:23] performed in order to ride some of these
[24:25] vehicles. And it would also task ODOT
[24:28] with creating a task force to look at
[24:30] additional statewide regulations that
[24:32] might make sense. But I think there are
[24:34] other things that we could potentially
[24:36] advocate for or with other regions
[24:39] suggest to the legislature that might be
[24:41] helpful. So a statewide education
[24:44] requirement I think certainly has uh
[24:46] some legs. It would be difficult if we
[24:49] had one set of education standards and
[24:51] Upper Arlington had another and Dublin
[24:53] had a third set and Gehana didn't
[24:55] require any at all. And then as a parent
[24:58] I would be really confused as to what
[25:00] I'm supposed to do. Um, the other thing
[25:02] the state could help with, candidly, is
[25:04] sales and what vehicles are even allowed
[25:06] to be sold in the state of Ohio. Uh,
[25:09] because some are being sold right now
[25:10] that are not defined at all in our in
[25:12] our code or in the state code. Uh and
[25:15] then the third piece of course would be
[25:16] a licensing registration piece
[25:18] potentially where um if especially if if
[25:21] ODOT is looking at how to register these
[25:25] vehicles or require some type of license
[25:27] especially if they can go really fast u
[25:29] that would provide a level of
[25:31] consistency statewide that would be I
[25:34] think more efficient more effective than
[25:35] we could be on our own as well.
[25:38] So to boil all that down, I think that
[25:41] when we look at the forest of vehicles
[25:42] that's out there and how we try to get
[25:44] ahead of this issue, uh what's before
[25:47] you this evening is sort of the first
[25:49] bite at that apple and trying at least
[25:51] to get a a bit more clarity about safety
[25:54] standards, the parental role in some of
[25:56] this, and then our ability to impound
[25:58] these vehicles um if they're really
[26:01] being misused. And then I think what's
[26:04] coming over the coming weeks and months
[26:06] is really a conversation with our
[26:07] community that crosses all those other
[26:09] dimensions and that we will take that
[26:11] feedback in, distill it down and then
[26:14] bring you a set of recommended changes
[26:16] to our codes um and keep that
[26:20] conversation going as far as what that
[26:21] looks like both here across you know the
[26:25] western and central regions of Ohio and
[26:27] then out at the state legislature as
[26:29] well.
[26:30] So, I know I've just talked non-stop for
[26:32] like 25 minutes. [laughter]
[26:34] Um, but I am certainly happy to answer
[26:37] any questions that you have. I think the
[26:39] feedback question for you all from staff
[26:41] this evening would be, um, does that
[26:43] plan make sense in your view? Would you
[26:46] prefer a different kind of an approach?
[26:48] Um, or are there elements of this that
[26:50] you want us to pay particular attention
[26:52] to as the process unfolds?
[27:03] Um, I I like the plan. Um, you know, the
[27:05] the community feedback, just getting
[27:07] folks together to try to um distill
[27:10] everything before we actually apply some
[27:13] additional rules. I I do like that a
[27:15] lot. Um, I do have a couple questions
[27:17] though. Um, in the in the in the slide
[27:20] set here, it said it seems to indicate
[27:23] that
[27:25] it says class one and two may be
[27:29] operated on streets
[27:31] except for the freeway and shared use
[27:33] paths. I'm I'm assuming that also that
[27:36] includes the the scooters, class one and
[27:39] two. Um, are are they allowed on the
[27:43] sidewalks? Um, you know, and it's it's
[27:46] something about ebike ebikes may be
[27:48] operated on sidewalks
[27:51] when
[27:53] uh using pedal power only, right? And
[27:55] that makes sense because that that's
[27:57] part of the problem. you've got folks,
[27:58] you know, zipping down um the main
[28:01] street sidewalks where, you know, I
[28:04] happen to know someone who's a barber in
[28:06] the barber shop there. And he said
[28:07] there's so many times people almost get
[28:08] hit as they're opening the door and kid
[28:11] whether it's one of those motorcycle
[28:13] looking ones or even just a scooter
[28:14] that's zipping along at 20 or more miles
[28:16] per hour, almost hits an elderly
[28:19] gentleman, you know, who just got his
[28:20] haircut,
[28:21] >> right? Um,
[28:23] » right? Um,
[28:23] so the the ebikes are supposed to be
[28:26] pedled if they're on the sidewalk, as I
[28:28] understand it. What about the scooters?
[28:30] I mean, because I I'll tell you what, I
[28:31] I I happen to live on Heather Ridge
[28:33] Drive where there's one of those u the
[28:35] speed monitoring devices that tells you
[28:37] what your speed is. And I just c saw a
[28:39] kid that just is zipping down the middle
[28:42] of the road, you know, actually behind a
[28:45] vehicle. And it uh it u it said that he
[28:49] was going 25 miles an hour. Um so what
[28:54] what do they do? I I don't know if you
[28:55] can just push those along like a regular
[28:57] scooter or
[29:00] >> Yeah, I think some of them you don't
[29:02] » Yeah, I think some of them you don't
[29:02] have to power them at all with your
[29:03] feet. You can either twist the handle or
[29:05] there's a button that'll just make I
[29:07] mean it'll it'll shut off.
[29:09] >> Um but
[29:10] » Um but
[29:10] >> if they're on the sidewalk, is that too
[29:12] » if they're on the sidewalk, is that too
[29:12] fast for a sidewalk? because you've got
[29:13] little kids, you know, I happen to have
[29:15] grandkids who ride their bikes on the
[29:17] sidewalk, five years old, and and there
[29:19] have been many, many occasions where
[29:20] these kids have just zipped right around
[29:22] them and
[29:23] >> uh kind of scared of them.
[29:25] » uh kind of scared of them.
[29:25] >> Yeah, I think that's I think your
[29:26] » Yeah, I think that's I think your
[29:26] point's well taken. And those things are
[29:28] heavy, too. Um and so you we've got a
[29:31] situation where people can take vehicles
[29:33] that have some weight to them and and
[29:35] especially on a sidewalk, which is
[29:37] narrower. Um there's less room less room
[29:40] to maneuver, right? Um, one of the
[29:43] things I think though too as well to
[29:44] build on that point is that, you know,
[29:46] even if I'm riding a pedal powered bike
[29:48] that has no motor on it, if I'm if I'm
[29:51] careening down a sidewalk at 20 25 miles
[29:54] an hour, I can do a lot of damage, too.
[29:57] you know, it's in in terms of the some
[30:00] of this I think boils down also to how
[30:03] fast to your point and where um because
[30:06] if folks are writing them in a way that
[30:08] is reckless um or too quick based on the
[30:12] design of either the sidewalk or the
[30:14] path, that's really where these
[30:16] opportunities to have really bad
[30:18] accidents kind of come into play. I
[30:20] would say the difference though between
[30:21] the the pedal powered regular just
[30:23] regular bike and these bikes is that
[30:27] >> it requires some effort
[30:29] » it requires some effort
[30:29] >> Yeah.
[30:29] » Yeah.
[30:29] >> to go 20 miles an hour on a bike.
[30:31] » to go 20 miles an hour on a bike.
[30:31] >> That's fair.
[30:31] » That's fair.
[30:31] >> But these, you know, I my wife and I
[30:34] » But these, you know, I my wife and I
[30:34] were were actually riding down the
[30:36] sidewalk, you know, just pedaling along,
[30:38] probably doing about six or eight miles
[30:40] an hour. And this a young young kid
[30:43] about 12 years old said asked if he
[30:46] could pass. He was on a one of these
[30:47] scooters. He passed us and I'm telling
[30:50] you within 10 seconds he was 100 yards
[30:53] ahead of us
[30:54] >> just I mean he was he was polite and
[30:56] » just I mean he was he was polite and
[30:56] everything like that but they they can
[30:57] go really fast and it requires really no
[31:00] effort
[31:01] >> to do that
[31:02] » to do that
[31:02] >> right
[31:04] » right
[31:04] >> no that's a fair point and I think that
[31:06] » no that's a fair point and I think that
[31:06] that is something that we I would look
[31:08] at least to get some feedback on part of
[31:10] the enforcement challenge becomes as the
[31:13] as the motors get smaller
[31:15] >> and they get you know kind of woven into
[31:17] » and they get you know kind of woven into
[31:17] the chassis of the device, it becomes
[31:19] more and more and more difficult for
[31:21] somebody, for an officer, whoever else
[31:23] to even know whether it's whether it's
[31:26] motorized at a glance. Um, and so that's
[31:29] where I think it's the multi-dimension
[31:31] part of this comes into play. There's a
[31:33] piece of this that probably does
[31:36] probably does rely on is it motorized or
[31:38] is it not? Um, there's also a piece of
[31:40] it that's just in terms of educating
[31:42] kids about how much damage they can do
[31:44] if they are going too fast. Um, that
[31:46] speaks to this too. So
[31:48] >> yeah, it it is a conundrum. There there
[31:49] » yeah, it it is a conundrum. There there
[31:49] are a lot of strange moving parts to
[31:52] this one. It's going to be difficult for
[31:53] us to to to tackle and but I appreciate
[31:56] your work and the work of all all the
[31:58] staff uh for taking it on.
[32:01] >> Thanks. [clears throat]
[32:04] » Thanks. [clears throat]
[32:04] >> Um yeah, I have a couple comments. I um
[32:07] » Um yeah, I have a couple comments. I um
[32:07] I've had people talk to me about kids on
[32:11] the bikes and the speeds that they go
[32:12] and um the people that have talked to me
[32:15] were not concerned about themselves.
[32:17] They were only ever concerned about the
[32:19] kids, which I find um helpful and
[32:21] interesting in this whole thing that's
[32:23] so confusing. Um but I also wanted to
[32:26] make sure that we we think about
[32:28] pedestrians in all of this, you know,
[32:30] and and how quickly can they possibly
[32:32] get out of the way. Um, and so while
[32:36] you're looking for more input, I've I've
[32:37] written some notes about other places
[32:39] and other people's that that we should
[32:41] include and when we're doing having
[32:43] these discussions.
[32:44] >> Excellent.
[32:45] » Excellent.
[32:45] >> Thank you.
[32:45] » Thank you.
[32:45] >> Thank you.
[32:49] » Um, so first of all, thank you very much
[32:50] for all the work that you all have put
[32:52] into this so far. Um, one of the things
[32:54] I'm really curious about is have we
[32:56] engaged with Hillyard City Schools to
[32:58] talk about how it's impacting them in
[33:02] their property? like when kids are
[33:04] riding to to school or from school,
[33:06] things like that. I mean, have we
[33:08] engaged with them yet? I mean, I heard
[33:09] you kind of say we're going to do an
[33:11] educational outreach, but I feel like
[33:13] they are a huge partner that we need to
[33:15] start with at the at the very um
[33:17] beginning of the conversation because
[33:20] that those students are going to ride
[33:22] those scooters or those ebikes on our
[33:24] sidewalks, our roads, and then they're
[33:25] going to end up at the school and then
[33:26] leave. And so, I think it would be
[33:30] really important that we engage them
[33:31] now. So, I don't know how have we done
[33:33] that yet.
[33:34] >> So, we had at the last meeting of the
[33:36] » So, we had at the last meeting of the
[33:36] township schools and city um Dave
[33:39] Stewart was there and I did ask him if
[33:41] they had any data or metrics about how
[33:42] many kids were writing these to school
[33:44] or just the general patterns that they
[33:46] had seen and my recollection is he did
[33:48] not have much that was readily
[33:50] available. He said they had much better
[33:51] statistics about pedestrians and actual
[33:54] walkers, but that that was a
[33:56] conversation that we should absolutely
[33:58] have. And so, um, to your point, I I
[34:01] intend to keep that going and to keep
[34:03] them pretty close as this continues to
[34:05] unfold.
[34:06] >> Well, and I I also would wonder if they
[34:08] » Well, and I I also would wonder if they
[34:08] haven't
[34:09] >> maybe got gotten enough of a sense yet
[34:11] » maybe got gotten enough of a sense yet
[34:11] because the number of scooters and
[34:13] things that I've seen this summer
[34:15] compared to previous summers, it has
[34:16] just exploded.
[34:18] >> So, it may just be like they're just a
[34:20] » So, it may just be like they're just a
[34:20] little bit behind. So, I think it's
[34:22] really important that we keep them in
[34:24] the loop there. Um when we're talking
[34:28] about the helmet piece,
[34:30] >> um why would we want to become more
[34:33] » um why would we want to become more
[34:33] restrictive than what like is currently
[34:37] being required?
[34:39] Like why I mean I get safety. I get that
[34:42] we want to do that, but is that going to
[34:44] be as enforcable? Is it going to
[34:47] potentially create an equity issue like
[34:50] for some parents if they have they may
[34:52] not be able to get the helmet for their
[34:55] kids or the or if we're going to hold
[34:56] parents liable. Kid left the house with
[34:59] a helmet but they were caught downtown
[35:02] without a helmet and now we're going to
[35:03] hold a parent liable for this. So I I'm
[35:06] I'm a little concerned about making a
[35:09] broad sweep of saying now everyone needs
[35:11] to have a helmet if they're under the
[35:12] age of 16.
[35:15] I think that's a fair point. I think two
[35:17] two responses to that. One would be in
[35:20] terms of the equity piece. U one of the
[35:22] things that we've talked about is trying
[35:23] to engage other partners to look at
[35:26] something like a bike rodeo or a helmet
[35:28] giveaway or some other ways that we can
[35:30] connect folks who might not have access
[35:32] to that resource to be able to to get
[35:34] them one. Um and so that's certainly
[35:37] something that we will keep plumbing.
[35:39] Um, as far as the uh the requirement
[35:42] itself, I think that um at least
[35:46] speaking for myself, and I don't know,
[35:47] Chief, you're welcome to weigh in on
[35:48] this if you'd like, but um when we're
[35:51] thinking about an officer's ability to
[35:53] sort of approach or to engage that the
[35:56] helmet is an immediately visible thing
[35:58] that you either know that they're
[35:59] wearing one or they're not. And so if
[36:01] the behavior is maybe a little bit uh is
[36:04] it reckless or no, do I have the backing
[36:06] in the code to to start a conversation,
[36:09] if they're not wearing a helmet and
[36:11] that's a clear requirement in the code,
[36:13] it just creates some backing for anybody
[36:15] that wants to enforce or to engage that
[36:17] child. Um it doesn't mean they're going
[36:19] to get a citation. It doesn't mean we're
[36:20] going to go after the parents
[36:21] necessarily. It just means that that's
[36:24] an expectation that's been codified and
[36:25] then that way you start a conversation
[36:27] from there. Um but you know to your
[36:30] point um every place does it a little
[36:32] bit differently. So I know our draft
[36:34] ordinance I think we we went with age 18
[36:37] just because that's you know the age of
[36:39] majority basically. Some of our
[36:41] neighbors I think are age 16. Um and I
[36:43] don't want to put words in Thaad's mouth
[36:46] but I believe that if council wanted to
[36:48] change if council wanted to change the
[36:51] age would that require another first
[36:53] reading or we could they could basically
[36:55] move to uh to adjust that now. correct
[36:57] >> that could be amended now without having
[36:59] » that could be amended now without having
[36:59] to do a new legislative process.
[37:04] >> Could I chime in on that?
[37:07] » Could I chime in on that?
[37:07] May maybe not required necessarily for
[37:09] just regular bicycles, but for the
[37:10] ebikes that can go 25 miles an hour in
[37:13] the scooters because I mean I think
[37:16] there's there's quite a difference on,
[37:18] you know, a kid riding around on a bike
[37:19] probably going 6, eight, maybe 10 miles
[37:22] an hour on a bike, whereas these
[37:24] scooters, like I said, I've seen them
[37:26] going 25 miles an hour,
[37:28] >> right? uh where if you know you wreck
[37:31] » right? uh where if you know you wreck
[37:31] you wreck on well you're going 25 miles
[37:33] an hour and it's going to mess mess you
[37:36] up.
[37:38] >> I'm not sure if that answered your
[37:39] » I'm not sure if that answered your
[37:39] question though, but the a Campbell Soup
[37:42] version would be it becomes another way
[37:43] to engage. You know,
[37:45] >> I appreciate that it is a very visible
[37:47] » I appreciate that it is a very visible
[37:47] piece. I see Chief who's nodding his
[37:48] head back there. So, I appreciate that.
[37:50] Um, I guess the way the language is
[37:52] written makes me worried that then we're
[37:54] going to have parents receiving
[37:57] misdemeanors for their stu for their
[37:59] children not wearing the helmet. And I I
[38:02] I do want to hold our parents
[38:04] responsible. As parents, we should be
[38:06] responsible for our children. But I just
[38:08] also I know kids are kids and they they
[38:11] you know sneak out of the house when the
[38:13] mom and dad says always wear it, but
[38:15] then they go and mom and dad aren't
[38:16] aware that they weren't wearing it and
[38:18] then they're they're finding themselves
[38:19] with a misdemeanor. It feels
[38:38] » good evening. Um, one of the things that
[38:39] we do now and and we always stress is is
[38:42] we issue warnings. We do a written
[38:44] warning and we record that information.
[38:46] um a lot of lower level misdemeanors,
[38:49] things that are are not violent, but uh
[38:51] something that we feel that a warning
[38:53] will handle. Um that's the route we
[38:55] normally take to begin uh an enforcement
[38:58] action with. I I would perceive that
[39:01] that's the type of um of action we would
[39:04] take for something like this as well. Um
[39:06] if we catch someone without a helmet on,
[39:08] we may stop, we may engage, we may
[39:10] educate, we may issue a written warning,
[39:12] and all that says is, "Hey, you violated
[39:15] this
[39:16] don't do that again. Uh we have that
[39:18] information. If we happen to uh
[39:20] re-engage with that kid some point in
[39:21] the future, we have that information. We
[39:24] may issue a citation at that second
[39:26] point or, you know, we may try and, you
[39:29] know, a little stronger um messaging uh
[39:32] to them. But yeah, I I I don't see us
[39:35] see a kid without a helmet, they're
[39:36] going to get a ticket.
[39:38] >> How would you ensure that the parent was
[39:41] » How would you ensure that the parent was
[39:41] aware that they received a written
[39:42] warning? Um
[39:44] >> because I know my kids wouldn't have
[39:45] » because I know my kids wouldn't have
[39:45] told me.
[39:48] >> Yeah. I mean, yeah, I mean that that is
[39:51] » Yeah. I mean, yeah, I mean that that is
[39:51] tough. Um I I would say the other thing
[39:53] that we have still is we have our
[39:55] diversion program with with uh
[39:57] juveniles. Um so that doesn't mean they
[40:00] may get a ticket, but we may hold on to
[40:02] it if they can complete a safety program
[40:03] or something that there's a way to that.
[40:05] That that way a parent is being
[40:07] notified. But um that would be
[40:08] secondary. I would start off with the
[40:10] written warning first.
[40:11] >> Okay. And if I may, with regard to the
[40:14] » Okay. And if I may, with regard to the
[40:14] par parental responsibility, one thing
[40:16] that's in that uh proposed section is a
[40:20] standard of of recklessness on the part
[40:22] of the parent. So it's not a strict
[40:24] liability offense. Um, when one of the
[40:27] officers, if an officer were to write a
[40:31] citation under this code, there would
[40:32] have to be some additional
[40:35] attendant circumstance that they would
[40:37] articulate to say why they believe the
[40:39] parent was reckless in this case with
[40:42] allowing their child to violate a a
[40:45] provision of this ordinance. So I think
[40:48] that even in a you know a ticket happy
[40:52] scenario, you wouldn't have parents just
[40:55] getting citations left and right. It
[40:57] would have to be a
[41:00] a relatively
[41:01] bad circumstance showing some knowing
[41:06] indifference or indifference to a to a
[41:09] known threat uh that the child would be
[41:12] out violating the ordinance.
[41:16] Not to belabor the point to but I also
[41:18] think on some level the the proposed
[41:20] ordinance is really intended to put
[41:23] tools into the toolbox and but as a
[41:26] practical matter we don't have enough
[41:28] officers out you know out and about on
[41:31] patrol to to go site every parent whose
[41:35] kids not wearing a helmet. You know it's
[41:37] it's more about creating those
[41:38] mechanisms for an officer to have a
[41:40] conversation if one needs to be had. Um
[41:44] and and sure if there's um I mean I mean
[41:48] I suppose that if uh a a an individual
[41:52] or a child was being reckless and they
[41:53] were warned and they kept doing it and
[41:55] kept doing it and of course then we
[41:57] would have other tools empoundment for
[41:59] example to then have a parent come by
[42:02] and grab the vehicle so we can talk to
[42:03] the parent directly. Um it's more about
[42:06] creating that that system so that we can
[42:10] have a conversation at a series of
[42:11] levels. um rather than just passing out
[42:15] citations necessarily.
[42:22] » Thank you. Thanks for all the work you
[42:23] guys are doing. I know this is um a new
[42:25] thing for all of Hillyard and all of the
[42:26] city. Um just a couple things that I
[42:29] just crossed my mind and when especially
[42:31] when Kathy was saying about um the
[42:33] schools. Um, I know we have this uh
[42:36] safety town program which is teaching uh
[42:39] kids about uh safety around uh you know
[42:41] on on their bikes and and around town.
[42:44] Um I I could see something like this
[42:46] needed with the ebikes and having a
[42:49] program if you plan on riding your bike
[42:51] your ebike to school and of course we
[42:54] have to have a place to store them. So,
[42:56] we kind of have to know um in
[42:58] conjunction with the schools how this is
[43:00] going to um be um how if you know how
[43:04] prevalent this is going to be this
[43:06] school year. So, I think that if if I
[43:08] don't know if it's too late now to have
[43:10] a program like Safety Town, but hey, if
[43:13] you plan on riding your ebike to school
[43:16] this school year, uh we'd like to have
[43:19] like a session with you and to go over
[43:22] some rules and regulations and where you
[43:24] can ride it. I think if we tell people
[43:26] where they can ride it as opposed to
[43:27] where you cannot ride it, I think that's
[43:29] a little bit more positive way. And then
[43:31] so they can say, "Okay, I know I can go
[43:32] here and this is where I can ride it."
[43:34] Um, and the kids would know this is how
[43:36] they can get to school, maybe a path.
[43:38] And if they can't think of a a path that
[43:40] is, you know, permissible to ride their
[43:42] bike, then I think we have to address
[43:44] that, too. And having our our trails to
[43:47] trails really connected is important,
[43:48] especially if these ebikes are going to
[43:50] continue. Um, so I I mean those are just
[43:53] some options I thought that we can um
[43:56] propose to uh the kids that are that own
[43:59] these. Yeah,
[44:01] >> that's great feedback. That's exactly
[44:02] » that's great feedback. That's exactly
[44:02] what I would intend to talk to Mr.
[44:04] Stewart about
[44:05] >> the school district is how do we start
[44:07] » the school district is how do we start
[44:07] to weave those conversations together?
[44:09] >> Yeah. And I don't know if it's too late
[44:11] » Yeah. And I don't know if it's too late
[44:11] to have a program like that for these
[44:12] kids or in the summer. I don't know.
[44:14] >> Yeah. I'd have to ask him. And I on some
[44:16] » Yeah. I'd have to ask him. And I on some
[44:16] level though I think that your point's
[44:18] well taken. anything that we can do um
[44:20] particularly if council were to advance
[44:22] the ordinance this evening about helmets
[44:24] like that would be a pretty easy thing
[44:25] to begin messaging um any other more
[44:28] detailed stuff um may we we may message
[44:31] later in the year but we would at least
[44:33] have that conversation going and have a
[44:35] pipeline to get the message out.
[44:36] >> Yeah. Thanks.
[44:41] » Thank you again. Um, I had a question
[44:45] about, [clears throat]
[44:46] um, when you started the the
[44:48] presentation, we were reading off of the
[44:51] website, which was talking about class
[44:53] one and class 2's having a maximum speed
[44:55] of 20. Um, but I did a little checking
[44:58] today and um, apparently they go up to
[45:01] 28 miles per hour, the class ones and
[45:04] class 2s and some of them actually
[45:08] are allegedly able to go faster is what
[45:11] I saw online. Um, now I spoke with our
[45:14] local bike shop. He said bike shops are
[45:17] only allowed to sell one and two. Um,
[45:21] but you know people can easily buy
[45:23] online. So, I'm sure we're getting a
[45:25] wide variety of um speeds on those
[45:29] bikes.
[45:31] >> Yes, council member. So, the the
[45:33] » Yes, council member. So, the the
[45:33] definitions for those devices where the
[45:35] 20 for class one and class 2 and the 28
[45:37] for class 3 that was set by state law um
[45:40] that basically every city in the state
[45:42] has copied. The state law also requires
[45:45] a sticker on those devices. So, if it's
[45:47] a true class one or class 2 device,
[45:50] it'll have a sticker on it. and those
[45:51] are maxed out at 20. The class three is
[45:54] what's maxed out at 28 and has a little
[45:57] higher safety precautions under state
[45:58] law and Hillyard law right now. But I
[46:02] have also been reliably told from the
[46:04] law enforcement community that people
[46:06] can mess with the governor on the
[46:08] devices to make them go faster, but
[46:10] that's not a legal way to operate those
[46:12] devices.
[46:13] >> Council, this Joe Bachelor, he's
[46:15] » Council, this Joe Bachelor, he's
[46:15] >> Oh, I'm sorry.
[46:17] » Oh, I'm sorry.
[46:17] >> He's an attorney.
[46:18] » He's an attorney.
[46:18] >> This this is my colleague Joe Bachelor.
[46:20] » This this is my colleague Joe Bachelor.
[46:20] Um he has become our resident expert at
[46:24] FBT Gibbons on um micromobility devices
[46:28] of all kinds to either his delight or
[46:31] chagrin depending upon uh the moment we
[46:34] catch him.
[46:35] >> Awesome.
[46:36] » Awesome.
[46:36] >> Joe's been Joe, you were instrumental in
[46:38] » Joe's been Joe, you were instrumental in
[46:38] helping to pull together some of the
[46:39] Matrix information that we showed this
[46:41] evening. So yeah,
[46:43] >> it's a fun time.
[46:46] » it's a fun time.
[46:46] >> Okay. So, so if I go to a local bike
[46:48] » Okay. So, so if I go to a local bike
[46:48] shop, I and
[46:53] Thank you.
[46:55] Um, I would
[46:58] find that these bikes only have a
[47:01] maximum posted speed of 20. Correct.
[47:04] >> Yes. If the store is selling it how
[47:06] » Yes. If the store is selling it how
[47:06] they're supposed to under state law.
[47:08] Yes.
[47:09] >> Okay.
[47:09] » Okay.
[47:09] >> And the difference between the one and
[47:11] » And the difference between the one and
[47:11] two is the two helps you get to 20
[47:14] regardless of whether you're pedaling or
[47:15] not. the class one you have to pedal to
[47:17] get the assist to get up to 20.
[47:20] >> Okay.
[47:21] » Okay.
[47:21] For specific questions on the
[47:23] legislation, do you want to wait until
[47:25] the actual meeting to do those?
[47:28] >> I don't have a strong preference. We
[47:29] » I don't have a strong preference. We
[47:30] have a little bit of time now. I think
[47:31] we can go ahead and if you've got them.
[47:33] >> I I do.
[47:33] » I I do.
[47:33] >> Yeah, that'd be great.
[47:35] » Yeah, that'd be great.
[47:35] >> Okay. Um
[47:39] um
[47:41] uh
[47:43] under 373.04
[47:46] in the legislation, it's talking about
[47:48] turning a certain direction. I'm sorry I
[47:52] don't have that up the um letter B, but
[47:58] when I was reading it,
[48:01] I was thinking which direction are you
[48:03] talking about? Are you talking about
[48:04] turning, making a right turn? Are you
[48:06] talking about making a left turn? And
[48:08] that was again 373.04B
[48:21] is in boy.
[48:25] This is where um
[48:29] you can move moving from the right side
[48:31] of the roadway if a dedicated turn lane
[48:33] is present. Was that the section you're
[48:35] referencing?
[48:36] >> Yes, that letter B. Uhhuh.
[48:39] » Yes, that letter B. Uhhuh.
[48:40] >> Um.
[48:43] » Okay.
[48:43] >> Is that currently how a bicycle can
[48:45] » Is that currently how a bicycle can
[48:45] operate
[48:46] >> right
[48:47] » right
[48:47] >> now? I mean, I ride bikes and if you are
[48:48] » now? I mean, I ride bikes and if you are
[48:48] riding along the right side of the road,
[48:50] if there's a lefthand turn lane, you can
[48:52] move into that turn lane, you have that
[48:53] right to do that. That That's exactly
[48:55] right. And that black text is current
[48:59] law under our ordinances.
[49:01] >> Right. Right. No, I realize that I've
[49:02] » Right. Right. No, I realize that I've
[49:02] never read our text. Understand.
[49:05] >> This is my first time. Um.
[49:07] » This is my first time. Um.
[49:07] >> Yes. And when I was re reading it, I was
[49:09] » Yes. And when I was re reading it, I was
[49:09] picturing a left turn lane, but I wonder
[49:12] if we can clarify that in in here so
[49:15] that we all understand what we're
[49:17] talking about versus
[49:19] a right turn or
[49:23] >> Mhm. Yeah. Yeah, I think that's
[49:24] » Mhm. Yeah. Yeah, I think that's
[49:24] absolutely something that we can look
[49:25] at. I mean, part of this conversation, I
[49:27] think, is about, especially when it
[49:29] comes to how vehicles are being operated
[49:30] in the roadway, which is like what this
[49:32] section is dealing with, making sure we
[49:34] have a clear understanding of that in
[49:36] general. So, I'm happy to add that to
[49:38] the list.
[49:39] >> Letter C, right below that, um it talks
[49:42] » Letter C, right below that, um it talks
[49:42] about um
[49:45] to writing more than to a breast. Um,
[49:50] and I know it's been my experience out
[49:52] on the paths that if you ride more than
[49:56] two a breast, um, you're taking up the
[49:59] whole path and
[50:02] we're not allowing for people coming in
[50:04] the opposite direction.
[50:08] So I think the exception there would be
[50:11] you're only allowed well according to
[50:13] this code off the cuff um you're not
[50:17] supposed to ride more than two a breast
[50:19] unless you are on a path that is
[50:21] specifically dedicated to
[50:24] uh set aside for the exclusive use of
[50:26] bicycles or ebikes or motorcycles. I'm
[50:29] not aware that we have any
[50:31] infrastructure like that that is
[50:32] exclusively for bicycles. a lot of our
[50:34] our shared use paths accommodate
[50:36] pedestrians
[50:38] >> um and other users as well. So I think
[50:40] » um and other users as well. So I think
[50:40] in general the prohibition against two a
[50:42] breast would apply everywhere.
[50:48] » Okay. So it's not like we're saying sure
[50:51] you can do three or four a breast or
[50:53] >> correct because we don't have any like
[50:55] » correct because we don't have any like
[50:55] specifically dedicated bicycle paths.
[50:58] All of the paths are shared use paths
[51:00] for bicycles um and pedestrians.
[51:02] >> Okay. All right.
[51:07] » It's only Well, that's the other thing,
[51:08] too, is this uh this section title
[51:10] governs um primarily the roadways
[51:12] >> on roadway. Okay. So, not a shared use
[51:14] » on roadway. Okay. So, not a shared use
[51:14] path. Got it.
[51:15] >> All right. That makes sense. Um
[51:20] then I I don't know. I thought I kept
[51:23] reading letter F and I wasn't quite sure
[51:26] what that was saying. If you could
[51:28] clarify, someone could clarify that.
[51:35] Is that just saying you have to yield to
[51:37] the bicycle?
[51:39] >> They're there.
[51:40] » They're there.
[51:40] >> So it is
[51:42] » So it is
[51:42] So if you're turning,
[51:45] yes, you have to yield to the bicycle.
[51:48] Um
[51:50] obviously so you don't cut off and hit
[51:53] the bicycle or t-bone the bicycle.
[51:56] the the last the very last um phrase
[51:59] provided that the person is not passing
[52:02] stopped vehicles on the right side and
[52:05] is not visible to turning traffic.
[52:07] >> I believe that that is trying to make an
[52:09] » I believe that that is trying to make an
[52:09] accommodation for
[52:12] if the if the bicycle rider is riding in
[52:14] such a way that they're not making
[52:16] themselves visible. So, if you have
[52:18] parallel parking on a street and if
[52:19] there's room where the um or if you have
[52:23] a
[52:25] stopped traffic on a street and the
[52:27] bicycle is on the right side and is not
[52:29] visible, then this law is not going to
[52:31] hold the turning vehicle
[52:34] responsible for not yielding to that
[52:38] bicycle rider who has put themselves in
[52:41] a position not to be seen.
[52:43] >> I see. Okay. All right. That makes
[52:45] » I see. Okay. All right. That makes
[52:45] sense.
[52:47] Um, do do we require any kind of hand
[52:50] signaling like if you're riding on the
[52:52] roadway from
[52:55] from bicyclists?
[52:58] >> I believe in general it is a best
[53:01] » I believe in general it is a best
[53:01] practice.
[53:04] » Yeah, I don't I don't know that there is
[53:06] a specific requirement in the code. I
[53:08] would need to look. But um as somebody
[53:10] that just registered for Pelatonia, I
[53:12] can tell you they're very upfront about
[53:14] observing the rules of the road and
[53:16] general courtesy and etiquette. Um so
[53:18] there's a lot of conversation out there
[53:19] about best practices, but I would need
[53:21] to look [snorts] in our code
[53:23] specifically.
[53:25] >> Okay.
[53:26] » Okay.
[53:26] Um,
[53:29] so
[53:31] if I'm writing on a shared use path and
[53:34] I I was looking at letter H on this one,
[53:37] um, I don't have to wear a helmet then
[53:39] if I'm on a shared use path.
[53:41] >> No, the uh the the section here H is
[53:44] » No, the uh the the section here H is
[53:44] would basically require anybody that's
[53:47] on a roadway operate operating a bike,
[53:49] ebike, or any one of the devices that
[53:51] we've talked about to be wearing a
[53:53] helmet if they are under age 18. There's
[53:55] a similar code change, I believe it's in
[53:57] the next section that governs um similar
[54:00] rules on shared use path. There's a
[54:02] almost a copy paste of that blue section
[54:05] H that would also require helmets for
[54:07] any riders of these vehicles uh if they
[54:10] are under age 18 on other
[54:11] infrastructure.
[54:13] >> Okay, great. Um
[54:17] » Okay, great. Um
[54:17] under the section 373.10 10 electric
[54:21] bicycles. A2 said highway
[54:26] and I was wondering
[54:29] should we have it say roadway versus
[54:31] highway? I don't know. I think of a
[54:33] highway as like a freeway or a higher
[54:36] speed road. Um 37310 A2.
[54:42] >> Kelly will answer this one.
[54:43] » Kelly will answer this one.
[54:43] >> Okay. Good evening, council members. So
[54:45] » Okay. Good evening, council members. So
[54:45] that language is consistent with exactly
[54:47] what OC describes it. And so at this
[54:51] point we're just going with what the
[54:52] description of OC. But what was
[54:54] discussed this evening is we believe
[54:56] that there will be changes given the
[54:58] feedback that we get over the next few
[55:00] months that this section regarding the
[55:02] operation of class one, class 2, class 3
[55:04] on roadway on electric bic or on shared
[55:07] use pass will be um will be changed.
[55:11] Currently class one, class 2 and class 3
[55:14] the way our code is currently written
[55:16] are allowed on shared use paths on
[55:19] roadways everywhere. We are getting back
[55:21] to where Ohio revised code is that pulls
[55:24] class 3 bikes a little bit away from
[55:26] that. So that's why the use the word
[55:30] highway was used because it matches OC
[55:33] and so we're starting at that baseline
[55:35] and then we will further evaluate it
[55:38] moving forward.
[55:39] >> Okay. Thank you.
[55:43] That's it.
[55:47] » Okay. Oh, yeah. Go ahead.
[55:49] >> Um, thank you for putting all those new
[55:52] » Um, thank you for putting all those new
[55:52] signage up. That's that's makes it very
[55:55] clear. Um, you know, who's not allowed
[55:58] to be riding around uh in Hillyard
[56:00] Station Park. But my my I'm wondering,
[56:02] are we going to put that same signage in
[56:04] some of our other parks?
[56:07] >> I think that's a conversation that we
[56:08] » I think that's a conversation that we
[56:08] can certainly have. happy to evaluate
[56:10] that and look at it. I it um the con the
[56:13] convenient thing about HSP is that it's
[56:15] very contiguous. Um I would just want to
[56:18] be really deliberate about how I'm I'm
[56:20] thinking of a much larger park like
[56:22] municipal park for example with where
[56:23] you have a lot more trails running
[56:25] through there. Um trying to kind of
[56:27] regulate and then sign where we do and
[56:30] don't want other vehicles could be a
[56:32] much bigger endeavor. Um but I think
[56:34] your point's well taken. It's something
[56:36] to
[56:36] >> my my example is um just at Heather
[56:39] » my my example is um just at Heather
[56:39] Ridge Park,
[56:40] >> my neighborhood.
[56:41] » my neighborhood.
[56:41] >> Um I was down there with my my grandson.
[56:44] » Um I was down there with my my grandson.
[56:44] There a bunch of other little kids there
[56:45] playing on the equipment. Yet there were
[56:47] these kids who came in with with uh you
[56:50] know they were probably 8 n 10 years
[56:52] old. They were on electric scooters in
[56:55] amongst the playground equipment riding
[56:57] around it around and round and I kept
[56:59] having to tell my grandson, "Don't get
[57:01] on the slide right now because there's a
[57:02] kid zooming around right there." I'm
[57:04] just talking about like a sign posted
[57:06] right right in front of the the
[57:08] playground equipment at our parks to to
[57:11] keep them out of there.
[57:12] >> Yep.
[57:13] » Yep.
[57:13] >> You know, just to keep the little ones
[57:14] » You know, just to keep the little ones
[57:14] safe.
[57:14] >> Yep. We can look at that, too. And that
[57:16] » Yep. We can look at that, too. And that
[57:16] actually brings up one other final point
[57:17] just with respect to infrastructure,
[57:19] too. We have had um some feedback about
[57:23] maybe looking at something like a bike
[57:24] park or a skate park or some other sort
[57:26] of destination that kids may want to go
[57:28] to. Um, I think that's also a
[57:31] conversation to be had in the sense that
[57:33] um, it, you know, a bike park is is
[57:36] probably more of like a BMX, not
[57:38] necessarily a motorized kind of
[57:40] endeavor, but to the extent that kids
[57:42] are looking for places to do little
[57:44] jumps and do other things, whether
[57:46] they're on a scooter or a skateboard or
[57:47] whatever, um, I think that's also part
[57:49] of the conversation, too, about maybe
[57:51] creating a destination point or a focal
[57:53] point for them to direct some of that
[57:55] energy.
[57:57] So,
[57:58] >> all right. Well, thank you so much. Um,
[58:01] » all right. Well, thank you so much. Um,
[58:01] I I do think this is the right approach.
[58:03] I like that it's collaborative, that
[58:04] we're working iteratively as a council,
[58:06] as a community um as we further define
[58:09] what safety means for all of us. So,
[58:12] yeah, looking forward to next steps and
[58:13] thank you all so much for all your work
[58:15] as a team. Um, items for discussion.
[58:18] Does council have any other items to
[58:19] discuss this evening during this
[58:21] committee of the whole? Seeing none, u
[58:24] Mr. Roush, do you have any additional
[58:26] city manager updates for this committee
[58:27] of the whole?
[58:28] >> I've probably talked enough, but I
[58:31] » I've probably talked enough, but I
[58:31] appreciate your time and it's good
[58:32] feedback for all of us. So, thank you.
[58:34] >> All right. I would entertain a motion
[58:36] » All right. I would entertain a motion
[58:36] and a second to adjurnn this meeting.
[58:38] >> So, move.
[58:39] » So, move.
[58:39] >> Second.
[58:39] » Second.
[58:40] >> All in favor say I.
[58:41] » All in favor say I.
[58:41] >> I.
[58:42] » I.
[58:42] >> Oppose. Same sign. This meeting is
[58:44] » Oppose. Same sign. This meeting is
[58:44] adjourned. We'll begin a regular meeting
[58:46] around 6 p.m.