members of the public
it's great to see such a nice turnout
for a special occasion for us um so
we're here tonight to uh pay tribute to
mr fred parker
fred's contribution to the fire services
has been significant and spans almost
seven decades
which i believe is probably never
happened before
uh my time with fred has been quite
short due to my inception here not too
long ago
but he has actually been a quite an
inspiration to me and he is the perfect
example of dedication and commitment to
service
on behalf of student fire rescue i'd
like to thank you for your service
so i'll make some introductions now and
before i do that i would also like to
actually um recognize fred's lovely wife
val she couldn't be here tonight she's a
little bit under the weather but uh
along with fred uh pursuing his career
and being in it for such a long time
he's obviously had the support of a
loving wife so that's uh
special in these circumstances and we
appreciate her support as well thank you
so tonight with me uh there's a few
gentlemen that are going to say a few
words um
deputy chief matt barney just stand up
matt please
okay we have retired deputy chief rick
mccloud please stand up please
and we have the firefighters association
president paul sutherland
and before everybody sits down i would
like
retired fire marshal fred uh parker
please stand up
okay thank you fred okay i'll uh i'll
pass it over to deputy chief party
all right so yeah we'd just like to
present and have an honor
within our
joining department
parker
okay thanks everybody um
mayor tate want to say a few words
please
thank you thank you everyone and um on
behalf of council in the district of
sioux fred we do wish to extend our
gratitude to your to yourself and to
your family
i have here a certificate for the 11
years that you served with us but i know
that you're obviously your history is so
much longer than that and just thank you
for being an inspiration and a mentor to
many
it seems though in suit that once you
retire
serving as a volunteer from one
organization you'll soon have a few
others waiting to scoop you up so
excited to see what the next leg of your
journey will lead to and no doubt you
would um be welcome anywhere you went
and be a leader and an inspiration to
many and but of course if you just
choose to enjoy time with your family
i'm sure we could all respect that as
well at least for a few days
thank you everyone so that completes the
presentation so
if you would like to stay of course we'd
love to have you
however if you feel that you're here
just for the presentation this might be
a good time to exit
thank you
okay thanks everyone
okay turning back to
our agenda tonight our next delegation
is item 5.2 and this is our building
permit process and tonight we welcome a
presentation from mr herb haldane so mr
haldane if you could please come up
you'll just need to turn on the
microphone
and when you begin your presentation
we'll begin the timer and you have five
minutes
we'll just see if we can fix it so that
the folks viewing from home can hear you
i see
yes
[Music]
sorry about that everyone just a small
technical
challenge here that's okay
all right go ahead mr hellman
uh yeah hello um herb haldane 3118
c otter point road
um the reason i came here tonight i
guess originally i was gonna go over a
bunch of the particulars on what i like
didn't like and
what other people have mentioned to me
about what's
poor about the process and stuff but
i think at this point more importantly
what i need to do is to come up with a
solution to how we can get where we need
to get on both sides
you guys have a provincial mandate to
come up with more housing to try and
streamline systems in development and in
building permit process
and i'd like to be a part of how we can
maybe make that work so rather than this
be about criticizing and coming up with
who did what who could do something
better worse or otherwise
i think my proposal here would be to
come up with a committee structure with
a couple of counselors
people in the industry and then some
staff members of course
and then you could basically put your
heads together in what's worked in the
past
i mean i built my first house in 1989
and then i'm still doing it today
so
having experience in how we got there
back then all the way to how we're not
getting there now and whether it's 40
days two and a half months which was my
last permit or whether it takes three
months or so on we have to come to a to
a an idea process and how we can make
that work better and the only way we do
that is if we put our heads together
rather than
us you know adversarially go at each
other whose fault it is or who made it
work poorly or whatnot we've got a bunch
of new staff and we've had staff turn
over over the years here and every time
we do get new people in some think they
have a better idea of how to make some
stuff work or not but we have had stuff
work in the past really well
in some cases and stuff worked poorly in
the past in some cases so i think if we
put our heads together with some new
people new ideas i think we could
probably get to where we need to go i've
met most of the staff we've all talked
on different levels i've met maya now
for coffee quite a few times to go over
some of the issues that i've been having
and basically come to the realization
that
adversarially doesn't make anything work
and we can keep splitting up our town
over ideas and how we can fix stuff and
if one side stands their ground the
other side fights them on it and we have
another election we turn over new people
we can go back and forth for years but i
just as soon come up with some solutions
that we can work in a bipartisan way
here so we can start getting something
done if the province pushes their weight
and makes us do it a different way then
we won't have any choices so if we show
the maturity here and make it work
especially as a group as a small town
maybe we can come to conclusion and make
this take two weeks or three weeks or
something reasonable for everybody and
maybe we can get some housing out of it
the big thing to remember is this is
single-family homes part nine of the
building code it's not engineers it's
not
multi-family and it's not commercial
it's just part nine single-family homes
and some have suites and so on but you
know if we can get to a place where we
can get people into rental housing for
reasonable and we can start getting
people into
to for sale housing for a reasonable
amount of money and i don't expect
everybody knows how to make that work or
not but
according to the national stuff that
i've been reading it's a canadian
problem it's not just a sig problem it's
not just langford problem so it's right
across the country even in nova scotia
and places like that they're having
housing problems for fighting rent
problems so those were the places we
thought we could go for cheaper housing
for retirement and stuff like that well
that's not happening anymore there
either so
um i'd like to be on the committee if we
could set something up i mean that's up
to you guys to decide whether you're
interested in something like that but i
think it's a good opportunity for staff
to get to know some of the development
community some of the counselors to get
to know some of the development
community and then we can all work
together at a solution
keep in mind
development brings in a lot of money to
the community so if you want stuff paid
for in that we have to find a way to
work with them because we're going to
have a lot of expectations coming up in
the future because
the one thing to stop traffic from going
into langford in this town is to start
getting some stuff in our own town we
need a movie theater here for kids and
for adults and stuff we need another
sheet of ice we need more sports fields
we need a lot of stuff so
the only way we're going to make that
happen is if we come together so
that's about it
thank you mr haldane i see some members
of council have some questions so if you
don't mind just no you know for a bit
we'll see councillor betos
yeah i guess uh i find this extremely
frustrating because it was three years
ago you came to us with the similar uh
problems
and uh we had the mayor uh council
logins and myself and all the
contractors around up here
with staff and we hashed out a two to
three week period for permits correct
that was three years ago and it's gone
from so and what went wrong in those
three years because i thought we had
this almost licked that
well i think what happens is when you
get
again you get new people and it's not
that they're not experienced or who
knows where they come from the
experience is different so you got other
people doing different jobs and maybe
people are adapting to new jobs when
they get here so there's a bit of a
learning curve with it
i always talk and you probably heard me
in the paper it's a micromanagement
situation as far as i'm concerned and
the only reason i say that is because i
know how commercial's done i've been
involved in it before and i know how
multi-family's done and we're using the
multi-family in the commercial way in
order to deal with part nine
single-family homes when you get to the
property line
everything passed there's the building
department it's part nine tony and brad
are quite capable of coming on the
property and telling you whether those
drains are hooked up properly telling
you whether or not that foundation is on
solid ground telling you whether or not
it follows the building code and that's
all that anybody asked for in single
family when you get into commercial and
and into multi-family there's
expectations of engineering and
geotechnical architects are involved
there's a whole litany of things and i
guess the point i'm trying to make is
that three years ago we were on that
right track and for at some point after
that it must have worked because i i
didn't hear anything from you in the
first year or so so was it sort of
corrected at that it did it corrected
for for a period of time okay i mean to
give you an example back in 2013
we went to a 48-hour building permit and
to give you an idea how that worked and
this is what langford does and not that
langford has the only solution but
callwood does it too but they take
longer but the thing is you can give a
checklist and that checklist is checked
off and those builders get to go and
they start the permit you've got three
months or two months before you're even
going to get to a framing stage where
you need the guys to come in and do your
framing inspection last two months that
staff would have time to go over all the
details to make sure all those ducks are
in order and those boxes that were
checked off are correct
if they're not correct then the whole
project stops stops like a buck watch
and that's based on what the builder
brought to the table so if they're short
if they didn't have the proper
um trusses they don't have the proper
building materials in the proper drains
and electrical and plumbing and stuff
like that and this isn't done to code
then it stops until it's all taken care
of
so that's why they can push it further
in language still gives staff the
opportunity to look at the whole thing
and they can go through all of it
but what you do is you check off the
boxes the problem is right now we don't
have all the boxes
so when i applied for the recent
building permit they do have some stuff
in the building department you check off
and all that stuff's handed in before
they'll even take your permit well then
engineering planning environmental stuff
they come up with some other stuff it's
almost like a referral process for
single-family homes and it shouldn't be
happening that way referral process is
done during the rezone stage then again
during the development permit stage so
there should be no reason to have to do
it once you get to the building of the
actual house the subdivisions are passed
subdivided registered and everything
should be done properly up to that point
if they're not it shouldn't be a
a builder or somebody who bought the lot
for their own single family purpose it's
not their responsibility it's a
responsibility of
let's say the engineering department or
planning department to deal with the
person who did the subdivision to
correct whatever mistakes are made it
shouldn't be up to the builder but
that's what's holding up some of these
permits because sometimes subdivisions
will go through
their registration everything else and
in the case the last one we were doing
they were missing a
water meter box because it was a duplex
instead of a single family and there was
an expectation of a bigger
pipe for the load for the sewer on the
way out but you know when you're
purchasing a duplex lot you're assuming
that once the district has let it allow
i don't want to cut you off but i i i
get you i get your point and uh and i
thank you for bringing that in because
it's uh i think it's pretty frustrating
for all of us to to hear that and i just
had a
talk to a friend on the weekend and she
was remodeling a kitchen and the builder
that came in he wasn't even a soup
builder
said don't alter anything on the outside
because it's three months to get a
permit
and that's going to our citizens and uh
that really really disturbs me so there
is something broken here and it's
something needs to be fixed so
we need to get our heads together
collectively and get on with this
because it's been going on
before even i became a counselor because
i had problems with that same thing it
is a problem we need to get it fixed and
we're we're listening we hear you
thank you councillor betos councillor
bateman
yeah i'd agree with councillor bettos um
it's a problem that needs fixing of
course it is a
problem that dates back at least to 2012
from the launch of your land use and
environment committee back then
um
to your idea of a committee i think
that's a great idea perhaps a task force
might be best
situated
short-term
work with staff given that we have this
incoming
grant
for
to streamline the system and we're
looking at a september
2023 next year to implement the system
and
undoubtedly the expertise of the
building community is needed to
participate in that process so i would
think a task force would be a good
logical
way to move forward with that
um
i think
you know i'd like to just
note that in our strategic plan
back in 2019 we did cite as one of the
top priorities is improve efficiency and
staffing capacity of the building permit
department and we then then went about
and this followed the hiring of a chief
administrative officer a key
the key position in this staff
operation uh the hire of a chief
building official
um
a new building bylaw and the improvement
of permitting times and we've done those
three things
um there were a series of
steps to get there
um
we're looking at
we did introduce a new application form
and checklist
in consultation with the building
committee and that was summer of 2019
that did reduce the time lag for the
average low density residential permit
by about 30 approximately
um
and now we've we've gone through uh with
the new building code and now this
project grant and of course the other
week the approval of new staff to help
uh facilitate the process
i'm curious about uh this 48 48-hour um
building permit and and i referred to it
as a bit of an urban myth the other week
and i just
i i look at langford's 48-hour
two-day building permit checklist and
all required documents must be included
in the submitted application package to
qualify
and then there's a long checklist here
of
about i don't know 20 items that
so i think i suspect that their two-day
checklist is preceded by a a good i
don't know how long
um to get there now you note that um
i think in your
the letter you submitted tonight
um
[Music]
sorry i received that quite late in the
day
where is this
yeah you refer to many municipalities
building permits are processed in a few
days now
could you cite those municipalities so
that we have an idea of who we should be
emulating well i don't work in i mean
basically i only work in suk anymore i
used to work in oak bay and victoria and
saanich and so on
so i'm not necessarily able to tell you
exactly how many days each one is other
than langford because in langford at
this point here i do lend uh help to
some people who are building a language
detached suites and otherwise
it's like i was saying there a minute
ago the whole idea behind any short
process and don't get me wrong it's not
about trying to skirt the system so that
you can do stuff without having any
oversight the whole idea is to getting
all your legals in order and and even a
geotechnical report say so you can start
building a foundation
because really at this point unless the
uh tony or brad go there they're allowed
to decide whether the ground conditions
are conducive to building a house but if
you get a geotechnical report then it's
taken care of some liabilities off the
district or anybody else in case you
wanted to start building a house there's
still what langford does there's still a
process of going through all the
applications and it does take a month
and sometimes probably even two months
but most of those applications take
between uh building the foundation and
doing the framing you don't really need
to get to that point until you're at
lock up so so they do have time to go
through a lot of the stuff what they try
to do is they try to get rid of the
starting gate and get them going first
and then they go through the
applications and
99 percent of the time they don't find
anything or anything wrong with it i
mean i think the biggest thing they run
into sometimes is an environmental issue
with regard to uh riparian setbacks or
stuns but
other than that everybody i mean there's
a 10-year home warranty from all these
guys so the last thing you need is
issues that show up because you're
personally liable it's not like your
company can go bankrupt you can start
all over again tomorrow you have to take
that liability right right with you to
your own home to your own bank account
so there's not too many guys around who
want to try and you know put themselves
in a compromising situation by doing
anything wrong and none of the the
trades the reason they found that
building in langford there the one that
they're having issues with the trades
the trades came through and said hey you
need twice as much steel in this
building that we're putting in it was
actually the architect was at fault so
you got trades guys who are saying hey
we should be building this better
different to a higher standard and the
other ones who picked up on it and
that's how the whole thing started
to come out the way it was so
my point is even in my situation i've
got framers drywallers and and
electricians and plumbers and stuff who
are saying no we have to follow this
line of the code even if you want to try
and maybe make a bathroom fit or
something you didn't quite end up with
enough room because some wall had to
move whatever they tell you no you have
to do this way there's concrete poured
in all the garage walls to cover any of
the wires now they go right to the panel
boxes there guys were skipping out on
that for a few years until
inspectors were coming around tapping on
walls and stuff there is an electrician
that i know around who won't make you
put that concrete in before he lets you
put the drive over now it won't give you
the certification paper you need well mr
holding i have to say that i'm out of my
depth here completely completely so this
is why a task force makes some sense i
mean in 2018 a very short term land use
and development committee was formed and
i believe you were on that committee
berger randy clarkson and others yeah
and in the in that year you
there were a number of important
recommendations made for the building
code which were in fact implemented into
the model bc building code or mibc
building code that we've adopted so yeah
i would i would think a task force would
make some good sense well and a guy like
randy clarkson i mean
i don't know if don't if you've met him
or not whatever but he's got so much
experience he was a builder a bricklayer
you know so he's a tradesperson and now
he's been doing plans for probably 30 35
years
so he knows all the players he knows
dozens of engineers dozens of architects
and stuff like that he's just a great
guy to have a community and
don't kid yourself i learn all the time
whether i'm learning even from your own
staff and things like the rules change
you don't always pay attention so i
think between
three different you know walks of life
here all joining into the same thing
people like yourselves
your staff you've got a very capable
staff here we all need to learn from
each other and there's some experience
and yeah i talked with norm not too long
ago and i said you know maybe a little
bit more negotiation and that doesn't
always go over that well when you talk
negotiation because everybody always
assumes that nothing's in stone i mean
your bylaws say specific things and
rules say specifics but i think
negotiation is a term should be used to
come down to find out where the common
ground is so everybody knows because
i'm sure i learned from them but i'm
sure they can learn from from the trades
and from some of the people in the town
because there's a lot of history
involved there that doesn't necessarily
get passed down when they get hired on
here and stuff that we've already gone
through before
and tony and brad have have that
institutional memory and we have as
their chief building official the former
uh
the province of yukon territory yukon
right so
it's it's quite a quite a significant
group of people to gather too
yes
okay thank you councillor bateman
councillor laginess
yeah i think the idea of a task force
sorry council elections can you just
turn your microphone off um thank you
just because i could hear you breathing
i think the idea of a task force is a
good idea i like the idea of working
together and i think that
this should not be an insurmountable
problem it's not the first house that's
been built in suk that we're talking
about and i think
working together we should be able to
solve this in pretty short order i would
think
okay thank you councillor st pierre
uh as it happens there was some
discussion just recently in the land use
and development committee by a lot of
very knowledgeable people on these
issues because they're very current and
they're very real
what i'd like to do is maybe ask through
your worship to staff mr apollo
we do have some movement forward we have
some solutions in the works or i don't
want solutions but we're trying to find
solutions in the works
i'm actually curious about the timeline
because uh we've talked about looking
for efficiencies that's
i i i see it in the minutes of our last
meeting
i know that we're looking at uh
potentially finding out where some of
the bottlenecks are in terms of
professional certifications and getting
professionals where can we skip them and
where can the district take on more risk
and actually speed things up but i'm
curious as to when we can actually be
looking at some of the stuff maybe
rolling out or coming before council
what's the timeline on that and in terms
of the task force i think that bringing
in additional experts could be useful
but we already actually have
quite a lot of really good people on the
land use and development committee and i
think that we really need a goal
uh so for example one of the things that
uh lankford did do was they decide on a
goal 48 hours that might not be our goal
but as has been suggested if we decide
our goal is two weeks or three weeks or
whatever the hell it is
we find a way to reach that goal and we
put some people on it and we figure how
to get to that goal i don't know that we
need specifically a task force but i
think that we should actually set some
objectives
and then find a time lag to reach those
objectives
so we've just begun the the review of of
these items and this was uh the item
that uh ceo mechanism had mentioned to
council uh previously so that works
currently underway i'd like that work to
be completed over the the course of the
next few weeks so
you know if this is something that we
can
get back to to council with an update uh
but by the end of
say next month since march
tomorrow that would that would ideally
be a good goal to to inform council of
where we're headed with this and also
reporting back to the land use uh
committee as well with uh the
recommendations that they had made to
staff and what our findings are uh based
on that because i think that will also
inform a process if we're to
strike a task force to kind of bring in
some of that um
already researched information
um based on that group's expertise and
then also with with a task force if it's
put together um the those local
community members also contributing to
that information piece so you know if we
can if we can establish something over
the course of the next month or so that
would that would be ideal uh moving
forward on this in the meantime um as
was mentioned uh tonight about the
hiring of another billing official uh
the other goal is of course also making
progress through those uh development or
building permits that we currently have
under review uh which we are making
progress on uh already just since last
week with the hiring
just if i can add to that so my
understanding is the hiring and you just
mentioned mr powell just to catch up on
some of the backlog
uh part of it also my understanding is
there's been identified of some process
issues in the current building bylaw so
those will be coming to council
where staff have identified some process
problems that need to be remedied so
that's also in the works now
uh
and then
in terms of using the word task force if
if we move in that direction it would
probably be easier just for the mayor
myself to call a standing committee
because then it's um it's a very
specific one and can move faster than a
select committee so just thinking of
local government contacts and what works
so do we have standing or select
committees there uh in either form
um
and then the other piece just i had
asked inquired today a bit more about
what happened to the 48 hour building
permit so back in the day when it it was
a direction of council back in
2012 or 11 or 13 or whatever year it was
it never became a policy though it just
became a direction at that day
and then there's been subsequent reports
out
where staff identified at the time
that we were running into some capacity
issues to meet that so that was 2016 it
looks like when uh they reported out to
council that we're not able to meet this
so it did come to a council meeting at
that time and then the problem for many
years was not increasing the capacity so
then we ran into a point where we didn't
even have a planner working at the
district um and our
building inspectors we only had two and
one was on leave so that leaves one
person trying to do a lot
so
things did go awry and i'm not trying to
make excuses just sort of explaining
what happened here so then over the
years
uh things have changed i think the last
time
there was an update was in 2018 and
there was a legal challenge about the
districts and the liability that the
district would be exposed to so there
were some concerns raised there
and then it did pick up though i think
it was 2019 when we met here three years
ago my goodness
and then of course with the pandemic the
challenge that we have there is we did
have staff depart new staff joined us
and then our operations were
to recall the words of the minister of
of affairs at that time said we're all
building an airplane and flying it at
the same time well for me the airplane
hasn't landed yet it's still kind of in
the air
i think it's about to touch down soon
which would be great but still up there
so anything built in that type of a way
is not sustainable there's good people
for sure but if you're going to build an
operation and then run it at the same
time it was meant to be i think for a
very short period of time i don't know
that any of us wanted to believe the
pandemic was going to stretch on as long
as it has
i certainly did hear that from someone
but i didn't want to believe it at the
time and now here we are two years later
so and then of course just an
overwhelming demand and interest in our
community that i think is beyond what
anyone just thought so there's all of
those pieces there but i think what i
want to assure you at the moment is that
we really appreciate you coming here
tonight
i think um we'll look for the solution
and
i think matthew wanted
not the end of this month but an update
at the end of next month or sooner so we
can we'll continually check in on how
we're doing
um
and then look to identify those so i
think that's where we do have the land
use committee so i kind of don't want to
create another committee when we have a
committee because then what is the
committee's mandate over there but it's
it's something that they're well aware
of so we'll just look for the best way
uh to do that meeting of the mind so
that we get the technical expertise that
we need
uh the user perspective of this the
layperson who's making decisions here
and then how we can all implement those
together while admitting the other
priorities that we're trying to achieve
here
so it's timely
uh that you've addressed us we certainly
appreciate what you're
saying though i agree with councilor
bateman when it gets that specific
that's where it's not that we're not
following you it's just we really don't
know quite what you're talking about
because we're not the ones building the
houses
but there is also likely from this
there's an educational component that
needs to land with the elected body and
that means us so we heard of ministers
eb announcement they want to get the
housing supply on they agree that local
government government can decide where
and how much but not if it happens and
so that's a message right to the elected
body that
while we like to sit there and well what
about this this and this and we've all
done it here talking about parking and
some things part of it is
we will lose that autonomy if we get too
nitpicky about the province wanting to
deliver the supply and they're serious
about it so i'll be curious also to see
as they're drafting legislation
and
consulting or advising local governments
on what that looks like is what we're
going to hear in time as they move
forward in that way there is now a new
minister
responsible for local government
nathan cullen i believe has been
assigned so now we get to know a whole
new minister available
but it'll be timely
in the in the coming weeks for sure
so at this point i think um stay tuned
and we also know that we need to
continually improve our communication so
as things do change
finding ways to deliver out that message
like look the province has come down
with x we have to do x did you know that
this is happening and finding more ways
to engage out with those that are the
end users
but yeah i i would agree that we
we want to find improvements and
everyone here is committed to doing that
so thank you
for your time today
for being here and of course we'd love
to have you stay with us
for the rest of the meeting
sure that would be a great way to enjoy
a monday
with your partner
okay council so we'll move on into our
next item here which is our pub pardon
me
item six report from the chief
administrative officer
thank you worship and i will give just a
quick update on the
building permit application process uh
since my um presentation on february
14th oh mr haldane you may want to hear
this mr mckinnis is giving an update on
the building permit process so as mr
haldane suggested
we don't have a tool to do uh something
similar to a development permit
application before building permit so a
lot of these other communities that are
processing
building permit applications in days
actually have a process in front of that
where various things are looked at and
the legal advice that you referred to
suggests that there's a number of things
that need to be outside of any 48-hour
process or policy that council may want
to consider
geotechnical reports
various things that are in covenants one
of the things that we have found through
our process now there are a lot of
covenants on individual
properties in suk and most of those
covenants say you must do various things
before issuing a building permit
so that's one thing that we're going to
have to
have a serious look at so if the
covenant says you must provide a
stormwater management plan or a
geotechnical report before the issue of
the building permit
what mr haldane suggested we do and run
these things in tandem
that's not what the the legal agreements
uh that the landowner and the district
have coveted on title so that's one
thing that we're seeing the other piece
is um i would love to have a development
permit process for
in front of each building permit but our
ocp has
not gone that way and there are so many
building permits that come to us we
don't have the tools to do that
pre-engineering or
planning work in front of that
so as of this morning we have about 70
individual permits in the queue right
now um most of those permits have uh or
those
parcels have two permits a building
permit and a plumbing permit and then
we've got uh
for instance the the development next
door two individual buildings with
various permits so we have about 30
applicants in the queue right now
last year our last week when our new
building official came on
we actually issued 12 building permits
and we brought in five new applications
so we're on the right track
uh we're going down that road
um so we're looking at a three-phase
solution to our current situation uh
looking at the backlog
and then bringing the building bylaw
back to council to councillor beto's
question what what changed uh one of the
things that changed was the building
bylaw adoption that happened in february
of 2021
if you look at sectional or part 11 of
the building bylaw
it is clear what is required for an
application uh in souq and it's uh quite
onerous so we're looking at those things
that are discretionary
and may not have to come with each
permit so
my
suggestion to council is
i think we know what the issues are it's
the building bylaw it is the covenants
to
bring other people in at this point
would probably um
just
take more time i would suggest that the
bigger process with the grant that we
have and the ultimate solution to this
is where we need to engage
i think that um to engage now we'll just
add more time to the backlog that we
want to really focus on getting through
and then bringing that that bylaw back
to council in order to knock down some
of the barriers where there's low risk
for us
requiring various things
so i think i'll leave it there but
three-phase process the backlog the
building bylaw and then the longer term
process review that we're doing with the
grant that we got
from
municipal affairs
and this follows a very
thorough review and uh study that was
done in
2019 by municipal affairs on the whole
building
uh process uh review
and uh one of the things in that review
is uh
as mr haldane alluded to uh we're not
alone in this uh
it's a systemic problem across the
province
but one of the the big the biggest issue
still was incomplete or poorly developed
applications um so we need to make sure
that section 11 in our bylaws part 11 in
our bylaw is
focused we're not asking for too much
but we're not taking an undue risk as
well
thank you
when we get to public input you could
okay thank you mr mckinnis
okay so that brings us to item seven
public question and comments so this is
for all items on tonight's agenda um any
speaker you would just need to give your
name
and municipality of address we don't
need your home address just where you
live
and everyone would have up to two
minutes
and when you start speaking we will
start timing
so miss lou i see miss lures
eleanor's
soup
um i just wanted to speak to page 15
uh the adoption of the minutes for the
ocp
and uh
and also the minutes uh on page 17
the ocp
[Music]
as these committee meetings
were
not recorded
they weren't recorded but they were
recorded written
but i made comments at the meeting on on
february
or january 20th december december 15th
made comments and asked questions and
they weren't
on the minutes
uh weren't put forward in the minutes
and the same on january 20th and the
same on february 15th and
i i understand that there's a summary
done but the comments and and queries
that i had were questions that community
had asked and i asked them
of the committee
asked the questions i did meet with
staff
to answer some of the questions but
those are questions that were all of the
committee's concerns
and i did put a um an email out saying
that committee and council are under the
same rules under the municipal act you
have to have accurate minutes
and it concerns me greatly with all the
other committees as well
if the minutes are summarized and things
are left out then how are we knowing
what's really going on in the meeting do
we have to go to every meeting to in
order to find out exactly what's
happening
the questions i asked i thought were
fair there are questions also that our
committee had talked about
so my suggestion would be
that uh
that there be recorded the minutes be
recorded the same as council meetings
because
when you look at history when you look
back and you see those things weren't
even brought up
so
nobody discussed that but that's not
true
there was a lot of discussion went on
and it wasn't recorded and uh
i would really like to see minutes
recorded properly
because under the because we are under
the municipal municipal act
i know the district doesn't have a
policy but we don't have a policy
because we're in a municipal act we have
to have accurate minutes for committees
and for council
beside each other so
i i would ask that perhaps
we look at the doing this properly
it's most unfortunate it's most
unfortunate when those because when you
go to review
uh if you go to look back and you go to
review you're going to see that
there's nothing there nobody talked
about that
okay thank you thank you miss lures i i
will share though that our minutes are
handled through our council procedural
bylaw
so that's where the handling of minutes
for counseling committee meetings are
handled through that procedural bylaw so
but they still require accurate minutes
i suppose they summarize the meeting but
perhaps i'll have our corporate officer
answer that
certainly um
under robert's rules of minutes and this
is what i have referenced uh previously
is that the minutes are to be a record
or of the decisions that were made at a
committee not what was said and
sometimes we do include some additional
comment for frame of reference around
the conversation but
the minutes are intended to be a record
of what was the decisions that were made
at a at a meeting
i have another question i see that and
all of them uh the
the comments made by the public were in
here
and they're recorded but the comments of
the committee aren't in here
just uh something i observed okay thank
you ms lures for
bringing this to our attention
yeah
just turn the button on please uh
william wiles from suke
i just wanted to ask two issues that
were on the agenda tonight one is the
fire service fees that is being
addressed there's one item in there
that's the removal of oil tanks and
gas tanks i guess
and uh it's car charging 80 bucks an
hour
to i don't know what it is but i think
it should be
qualified whether
small household oil tanks are to be
included in that where they have to go
observe whether someone's taking we're
trying to encourage people to get off of
oil so i'm just wondering if that fee
might be weighed for
small things and i don't know if it
applies
the second issue is in regard to the
incentives for
underground garages or houses for cars
i i see the logic of trying to get cars
off the road
uh save land but at the same time
there's a fair there's enormous amount
of concrete that has to go in for the
development of an underground garage
uh we all know that uh concrete has
greenhouse gas
implications and i'd like to demonstrate
that just a little bit we have a new
library there a wonderful building just
an absolutely wonderful building
but if you look underneath it
there's over
800 cubic meters of concrete that went
into that building
that's over 160 tons of greenhouse gases
it's housing six cars
that are under there
an enormous waste of
concrete
energy greenhouse gases i think we
should
consider
giving incentives to
build houses for cars
we're trying to get people away from
cars we're trying to reduce our
greenhouse gases and i think uh in
providing incentives to build houses for
cars it's just the wrong
incentive that we should be operating
the ipcc
secondary report came out today
things are not looking good for the
environment i think we all should
take a second look at how we
uh operate
and
that's it thank you very much
thank you mr wallace
do we have an answer just on the fees
and the removal of the tanks for mr
wallace that is an existing fee uh the
only reason that it's in the agenda this
evening is because that table is being
replaced and has a couple of additions
the fuel tank item is something that has
been in the bylaw for a period of time
thank you do we have other other
speakers
hi susan belford i live in sukh
i'm also speaking to item 10.4 the
building bylaw density bonusing
um
i understand why
it seems a good idea hiding cars
underground does yield a more
aesthetically pleasing
above ground but i think we have to
watch out
for unintended consequences with this
kind of incentivizing i don't think it's
appropriate allowing for further density
to encourage developers to build
underground parking
ultimately in the end all it's going to
do is increase density
and increase the number of cars which
isn't going to meet our
long-term goals as a as a municipality
over time i think
i really would urge council to consider
doing what other municipalities have
done
require developers to build underground
parking
they'll do it
decouple the cost of parking from the
cost of a unit so that
i as as
you know or any individual who wanted to
buy a unit
could make the choice to buy the unit
without parking thus making a commitment
not to bring a vehicle into the downtown
core
council and developers can support
purchasers in this
by ensuring that each new multi-family
or or higher density development has a
good sized
fleet of shareable vehicles
there are two good car share
organizations in the local area
car sharing has shown to reduce the
number of vehicles on the road over time
as well as so increase car share and
also
increase other kinds of incentives for
for people
by giving them bus passes and that kind
of thing thank you mrs bill for the last
two minutes i just got um
just been called out a bit actually
procedurally that items coming
for first and second reading are not
the public can't comment on them because
there'll be a public hearing to address
that further on in which case you'll be
able to speak to it at a public hearing
and everyone will have that so that's
unfortunate i guess um
that does limit conversation a little
bit but anyway i understand why
but i appreciated you being here so
that's where i wanted to give you the
two minutes just the same
okay
hi
anna russell wanta fuca
uh i wanted to talk about the building
permit agenda item
and um
just in terms of contacts in other
communities uh having coming from
vancouver a few couple of years ago
i think my neighbor waited months for a
permit and it might have been closer to
a year so just to say that not everybody
is doing the 48-hour thing uh and as a
management consultant i cannot actually
think of a management process in which
you could guarantee that building
permits will already be always be
managed within a specific frame time
time frame because
even if there aren't covenants there are
always going to be different amounts
coming in and you could set up a system
in which you would have a good chance of
meeting a particular performance target
of amount of time but if a whole bunch
of builders show up with a whole bunch
of new permits suddenly they will not be
bringing in enough revenue right away
for you to hire a new person right away
to instantly process everything
in exactly the same amount of time so i
guess i just wanted to counsel against
unrealistic expectations around what can
be meant if you're met if you're going
to be having a task force um you might
be able to
commit to a certain time frame for
processing applications for the first x
number of straightforward fully
completed applications but if you get a
back uh if you get a sudden influx of
new
applications uh it would be unrealistic
in my opinion to
meet that target so i just don't want to
um
have a lot of pressure on staff to meet
an unrealistic expectation and then a
lot of pressure on council to be raped
over the coals for not meeting an
unrealistic expectation and that's my
perspective tonight thank you
thank you miss russell and i'll share
that we're not targeting 48 hours by any
means i know yes because i know
we've learned that our ability to meet
that
it's never been successful i think maybe
it worked for a day and as far as i know
it it just
was a great idea but the capacity was
not in place
and then that led it
led us to
you know failing to meet expectations
when we were unable to we weren't
positioned to even meet that back in the
day
but i think it's more just in terms of
what is reasonable and we have good
averages and and so forth and we do need
to make some improvements which we're
doing but i think saying okay even 72
hours
uh would be unfair for reasons that
you've expressed
okay thank you everyone for
taking the time i need to brush up on
our procedural bylaw a little bit more
um but one point that's been made
through the changes that is made is that
when items come for first and second
reading that
uh because there would be a scheduled
public hearing that's advertised and it
provides fairness to those that are not
present for this meeting or following it
as closely to at least receive the
notification of something that's coming
and plan either to email a submission or
plan to present in person so then we get
the benefit of all views
uh at that time but
since you are here and we've missed
having in like actual people with us
it's like well you can't make it can't
make how i can't stop someone from
speaking because we're delighted that
you've actually joined with us tonight
so thank you everyone
that's okay and i should know better
myself but like i said it's just nice to
see people in human form
okay counsel we'll move on into our
agenda then and that takes us to our
consent agenda so here we are and that
is that items 8.1 and 8.2 be adopted by
general consent
i have a mover by councillor st pierre
and seconded by councillor laginess
i'm not hearing of
extraction yeah i wanted to extract one
that was item f
so that's to be pulled for consideration
of the next council meeting okay so let
me just open that please just second so
correspondence received counselor
battles would like item f
our pardon me counselor what did i say
counselor
battles pardon me counselor betos
has requested that item f lpit
notification suit mr greg little
come to the next regular council meeting
for discussion
counselor bateman requested that
don't even ask me what i just said okay
so
next regular council meeting for
discussion counselor bateman okay
anything else to be extracted no so i'll
call the question then to receive and
file all those in favor please
and that's unanimous thank you sorry if
i'm confusing names
okay all right
here's a bit of a difference
let's not let's let's not go there
tonight
reports yeah yeah yeah okay item 9.1
volunteer recognition event
let's focus so we have our report here
i'll turn it over to staff just to walk
us through the report
i guess that's me
oh thank your worship so um if
i believe it was lost fall counts yes
sorry october 2021
uh council had mentioned a
possibility of considering an event or
um occasion to recognize the work of our
volunteers specifically uh the people
that are serving on our advisory
committees so staff
had done a little research
there was an event in 2013 and then
again in 2017 both were a little bit
different one with refreshments
certificates and flowers and then the
most recent one was just an event held
in council chambers
with certificate and refreshments again
so i guess i'm sorry not too different
and then we have
just done some initial investigation as
to
what type of events could be offered and
what those costs would be and those are
outlined in the table in the
report
did you want me to go through that
okay
so
um we do not have the money in our event
budget is already spoken for through the
santa claus parade so um
and given that this hasn't been an
annual event
um
since 2017 there are no specific funds
for this in the budget so it would
probably need to come from council
contingency or some other
fund that's it
thank you miss michelle so the other
piece to this that remains a bit of a
mystery to me
is that every term that i'm aware of
we've done some community a recognition
awards
so i recall the first time for myself
was at the community hall
i think
members of the community sort of
nominated
different individuals and then there
must have been a a committee that juried
these applications i'm not sure who that
committee was i just remember needing to
be at the hall at a certain date and
time
uh the piper piped us in the mayor gave
a presentation and one by one
certificates were handed out to
individuals and so that's where there's
been this event like this but it just
sort of happens
on its own and then suddenly there's
folks
nominations are coming in and and
so forth so it's always like the elected
body has never been a part
of the selection we've never been the
jurors of this event it's more
the wrecking the community recognition
is open now
uh and then we tend we're sort of told
in the past like not to nominate
ourselves or family members because it's
obviously major conflict there but that
the commun the district was doing this
as a like community leadership type
awards
so that's sort of what i was thinking
though i also know we talked about
wanting to recognize all the volunteers
from our committee so are these the same
things or different now
staff has just advised me that the event
that i think you're referring to was
done in coordination with the souq
museum
so i'd have to speak more with staff
that may have been around at the time
that was prior to
my starting with the district as well
but um it sounds like we might have some
staff history that we could provide a
little bit more information on that
okay because that's where it's always
the case where it's like once a term and
then um but i wasn't sure
where how it evolved it's just always
been on my mind that okay what and then
of course with kovid
the ability to gather and do anything
and just like it all went out the window
completely so now it's the case of
you know what do we do this term or you
know and how do we advance this
accordingly so okay maybe that piece
then we could get something different so
this is for our committee volunteers
district suit committee volunteers
because we've had different committee
members
over the time okay
all right so clarity another information
report to come on that note
um this then is focusing on our
committee volunteers
um
so
my thought here is that
weekends are going to be a challenge
many of our volunteers are volunteering
uh which they do on weekends or enjoying
time with
family uh and then
i was sort of more it's
just something it's honoring the
volunteers um
and finding a time that would work i
know it doesn't work for everyone but
maybe we could do something indoor in
chambers on a monday before a council
meeting
typically in soup not a lot of people
volunteer monday night there's some
obviously that do but wednesday
thursdays
are very heavy and weekends volunteers
are now delivering what they're doing
and of course some meet all the time
counselor battles
yeah i had a look at this and i wasn't
quite sure exactly what we were getting
at here but i i looked at council
chambers and you know even if you do 10
volunteers and recognize them and their
family members it fills up pretty quick
so i'm
really not in favor of doing it in
chambers here at all
again i don't know that the number
involved but
i would think with the committees that
we've had running in the last
three four years
you could probably have 50 people and
family members so
i only thought option d in-person event
on a sunday
um
i know it's the most expensive one but
we've got a beautiful little part next
door here
that would be
a better a better fit but again i'm not
clear as to who are we honoring here so
it will be the ones on committee not
people in the community that work for
the food bank or anything like that it
is for the people that work for us over
those years it would be district
committee volunteers okay like yes
ocp climate there's been two forms of
the climate committee yeah uh and then
there's been the land and the land use
and development committee and i would
expect you to bring a spouse to
something like that if we invited a
member of the spouse to come with them
depends on the volunteer yeah well i
understand that but if
you'd be
allowed to bring a guest i suspect so
that's why i was sort of leaning towards
uh
d
and a nice day in uh in the summer
months outside here uh i thought that'd
be pretty good i know it's the most
expensive item but uh
these people put in many many
hours of work and uh i thought that'd be
good
i don't think this cost covers the
family this is just to have the
volunteers present so if we're looking
at adding
more where they bring their family we
the cost would go up to
uh to accommodate whether that's chair
my other question though is given the
construction next door i don't know what
this would be yeah
all i know is like i think we can do it
in chambers that was my point
counselor saint pierre then login us
uh two or three small points uh one is
that uh i'm well aware that the climate
action committee that was in place
during the first year of the pandemic
never had a chance to wrap up properly
but did in fact keep on working through
the pandemic
and uh it was a lot of work
but there was no recognition at that
point in time so i'm hoping that when we
do this we can actually you know
definitely make sure we get back to
those people and invite them
the other thing was that the subregion
volunteer center might be a good partner
and might have a suitable location over
the family resource center type of place
they've got some nice garden areas and
so on i don't know if it would be
possible but if they had any events that
were similar it might be interesting for
them to partner with the district
in a volunteer recognition type event
and then the district could actually be
one of the presenters
recognizing many of the volunteers in
sioux because we're our committees are
not the only volunteers
so that was another just a mighty way to
either defray costs or stretch the
dollars to have an even better event
so you're thinking
did i hear sioux family resource center
or with the volunteer region volunteer
center okay i think it's is uh
that's where they're located
right okay
yeah councillogness
i would be in favor of doing um
an outdoor event i'm not sure where the
covered outdoor area
um i don't think we have any
oh a rented like rent a tent or
something
i mean if we do in the summertime we can
save the cost of renting the tent and
just uh pick a location
we should be able to find some place
you're assuming it's not going to rain
i'm not making any bets on weather
anymore councillor bateman well the
committees wind up on june 30th right so
therefore we'd be looking at a summer
event and i i agree it could be an
outdoor event it would make total sense
i don't know why it has to cost that
much can't can't we just fire up some
barbecues and um
you know bringing a few lines to run the
uh
i know that there must be a
simpler way to gather in a kind of
picnic
scenario
outdoors
and also yeah so we in just in terms of
the
this mixed messaging here we got the
committee volunteers and then community
volunteers and i did do some research
and
since 2001 there was 12 straight years
of annual volunteer recognition
ceremonies
and 350 residents have been acknowledged
and then that lapsed and then in 2017
you honored marlene barry said jordan
heather phillips neil flynn in chambers
so um be great to you know as the
volunteer capital canada would be great
to have that
revived
yeah that's where i recall it being the
last time it was in chambers
uh and there was it was small it was
just the four
uh members of council staff and i think
maybe a few family members it was it was
much smaller than the previous events
but that's where i'm kind of mixing
events together here it was just the
case of
i remember it just being once a term
that obviously happened more frequently
in the past
and then sometimes i get queries from it
where someone wants to nominate somebody
and they're waiting for the intake so
that's what kind of like oh yeah i have
to ask like where is that event and who
was the keeper of that process
so
i think right now we need a bit more
information here before we make a
decision so
i'm wondering here
i you know i'm hearing a desire to have
something outside
uh i hear a bit more i mean myself i'm
looking for the community recognition
piece
and then does it all go together because
i think where the staff report was was
to invite just the committee members
that served members of council and staff
in which case chambers would have been
adequate as a location
but when we start to add in more then
obviously that changes
the venue obviously becomes too small
and then locating outside i think maybe
part of it being covered is the weather
is unpredictable
and that um the case of having tables
with some food items that aren't in the
sun leading to other
potential issues with exposed food in
the sun so that
and to keep it sort of as a simple way
for folks to meet and greet and see each
other in person because as counselor st
pierre said some haven't even really met
counselor saint pierre then back to
meadows
i think one of the things that i would
really like here is for more of the
community be actually able to attend and
we know that a local government event
like this is not also going to bring in
a lot of the public so it's probably
going to be as has been previously
stated a very small number family and so
on and so forth
uh i like the idea of john phillips i
like the idea of maybe doing it on a
saturday when the farmer's market is
already going something like that is
happening
uh well we've got parking up here and
it's not that far to walk
sorry i'm just chiming in because i've
come to the market and left because i'm
parking on the road because it is full
here when the market is on so from
accessibility it doesn't work for folks
unless we screen off half the parking
which works so i don't want to let's not
tangle everything
it's just too bad because logistically i
wish that more of the community could
actually
see what we're doing and see what these
volunteers are doing
yeah
[Music]
councillor battles
one uh possible place is ed mcgregor
park they have the band shell
which which is covered you could put the
food under there
and uh
the other part of the equation which i'm
not familiar with yet is i still would
like an outdoor venue
but again it's the numbers uh i mean
it's
i'm hearing two things now it's going to
be the ones that have worked for council
on these different committees now i
don't know what those numbers are and
now we're talking about expanding it a
bit more into maybe some recognitions
from the community uh either way i i
think that uh the band show would work
and there is that possibility of asking
a service club to to cater it but i mean
i can't speak for them but i do know
that stuff that's been done in the past
with the three
clubs that i'm familiar with uh you know
the they all go together and
do stuff so
there is some possibilities but uh
um i need some more information here how
many people are we talking about because
i'm just thinking the committee's alone
35 35-40 people
okay
all right so
it's about a hundred here and then also
it's the case of um
what we have available in contingency
and we're going to have another report
on what travel expenses are going to
look like and what we versus what we
budgeted which is another impact on
contingency so i just wanted to
flag that so in terms of here though
it's the case of
there's two things is let's just
separate them then
and focus on recognizing our committee
volunteer did i miss you okay this is
where someone who sees you needs to say
point of order
and i'll say what is it counselor saint
beer oh counselor elijahness had his
hand up okay sorry please speak
i was
i'm used to it
um i was just going to suggest maybe um
we could do something at the celebrate
souq event
and what celebrates well okay
um canada day then if that's what we're
doing we could just invite the
volunteers to come show up at a certain
time and
give them a
district of soup water bottle or
something
because that would be a venue there
would be people there there'd be an
audience and and
that might work
it might having been on that stage many
times
there's a big crowd that grows as you
approach the end of speeches and the
cunning of the cake mirrors
so
you know because there's other things
happening in the background i'm just
saying what i've seen from
standing there
oh i might not be able to cut a cake
yeah the big covered cake okay so okay
we'll just leave
the coke okay so let's
let's just focus here because
that's just taking
you know the whole point of we want to
recognize our volunteers that set on our
committees
so
that's what the intent of this report is
to do and which option are we exploring
here so i think we need a bit more
on the numbers the venue at mcgregor
park our park makes a lot of sense um i
think we can get a pa system there the
other pieces are there there's a
washroom there and so forth
uh and and then to find a date there so
probably a sunday afternoon seems to be
what would work because it would be
let's not
collide with the fling though
and then the second piece would be
information on
the community recognition event
and
how that is done and if we're able to do
it the timing for that is very
slim which is unfortunate
can i just clarify so if it's i think
what counselor bateman was saying along
the lines where there was only four
people recognized perhaps that was
something
that we could have a third party
evaluate but it is more people putting
in submissions for kind of lifetime
achievement sort of thing with respect
to volunteer is that like
the direction that we're thinking that
needs to go
yeah and that's where we i we would mean
more intel behind that process
on what it was i remember just two
nominators maybe
nominating somebody for for an award but
i could be
confusing that with other awards
programs that i've been through over the
last few years of which i've sat through
four of them so this is where the
processes just need to be clear but in
that case
from what i would call it was somebody
honoring
so and so for the many contributions
they do towards our community and then
there were the four volunteers and i
think even the bigger one at the
community hall there was maybe a dozen
people there was a lot of family
presence so the community hall was
certainly full that day but there was
about a dozen
honorees
that day
and so they were different it wasn't a
think the committee volunteer it was
specific to community recognition awards
but that's where i was never certain who
the selection panel was and when i asked
i was told well that's
nobody knows who the selection committee
was so that's why i don't know it was
meant to be discreet
okay so i think maybe what we'll do then
is just can we refer this report back to
staff
okay i'll just get some more miss
michelle is typing
just watch her type at the same time
yes counselor sink here would this be
first have to look at the mcgregor
option is that the idea
i'm just waiting to see what she
but i think ed mcgregor would be
a nice location doable
that's kind of the intent of the park
it's a beautiful setting and undercover
space
whereas this one will be undergoing
and parking
well it'll be
under construction like as it is now i
don't think it'll be done by that
almost
okay so the council direct staff to
bring forward a report with specifics
regarding a community volunteer event at
mcgregor park in july and that council
direct staff to bring ford a report with
additional information regarding a
community volunteer recognition program
including the nomination and selection
process
yeah so moved by councillor bateman
seconded by councillor st pierre
motion any
nope no nothing to motivate on
okay councillor saint pierre
okay anything from anyone else
so it's nothing to do with canada day or
celebrate soup we'll just get specifics
to do this
okay i'll call the question then all in
favor please
anyone opposed it's unanimous thank you
everyone good discussion
okay
bylaws section
uh we are on to 10.1
and so this one here
we're in adoption here is that council
adopt the bylaws cited a zoning
amendment bylaw number 818 600-88 2021
it's moved by councillor
st pierre and seconded by councillor
bateman
all those in favor
and that's unanimous thank you
the next part is 10.2 and that is that
council adopt the bylaws cited as suit
course sewer
suit course sewer specified area
amendment bylaw number 838
147-43 2022
and that's moved by councillor st pierre
and seconded by councillor elijah ness
all of us in favor
and that's unanimous thank you
and 10.3
that is that council adopt the bylaws
cited as fees and charges amendment
bylaw number 839-752-05-2022
moved by councillor saint pierre and
seconded by councillor lajness
all those in favor
spanish thank you
pardon
no
it's already gone through readings in a
public hearing
okay fine what would you like to make
uh i tend to agree with the uh one
comment that this is actually a very
high cost for example for seniors that i
tend to have these older systems the oil
tanks specifically
if we can actually investigate means by
which
that could be
changed in some way or helped in any way
that'd be wonderful whether there's
grants available elsewhere
because 80 an hour to move a tank
when it's already costing you a fortune
to burn that oil is hard
okay so what i will recommend is because
that item was not what motivated the
changes to the fees and bylaw like it
was just the case where the table was
included i suggest a notice of motion
yes well we have it's adopted but just
to your point there um because that
would require a bit more than sort of
what we have there is i would recommend
drafting a notice of motion and then
that would yeah but right now it's not
why this was put in front of us so a
notice of motion that comes forward
would enable that more fulsome
conversation to have
okay that's what i would suggest there
okay 10.4
excuse me um we just need to wrap that
up he called the question but we didn't
finalize the vote
well that was unanimous thank you
okay 10.4
density bonusing over to staff please
thank you excuse me thank you
so this is coming forward you recall
at the last council meeting staff
brought forward a uh a list of uh text
amendments uh proposed for the zoning
bylaw this was additional items that we
had flagged internally and also
presented to
the land use and development committee
on february 16th it was supported by
that committee
and what it's proposing is to
amend the density provisions section of
the zoning bylaw to include
a 10 units per hectare incentive
currently the way the bylaws
read it allows for if 80 or more of the
concealed parking is provided on the
site the applicant could potentially
benefit from having a 10 percent
maximum site increase
for coverage or an additional story
what we found is
that's not being utilized and the
general feedback is there's no incentive
to do so there's more cost of materials
if you're going to build a larger site
whether it's vertically or across the
property then there needs to be another
incentive
through our research it was noted back
in the 2006 zoning bylaw that a 10 units
per hectare incentive was included as
part of this
staff were not sure why during the 2011
uh amendment to this that that portion
was removed and then subsequently
followed through again with our current
uh 2013 zoning bylaw
so based on that uh staff is proposing
that that incentive be reintroduced
also note that the decrease of the 10
lot coverage down to 5 is a result that
our zones also increase their maximum
lot coverage so to coincide with a
larger lot coverage per zone it would
only make more sense to
reduce that lot coverage incentive down
to five percent so previously it may
have been a maximum lot coverage in that
zone 50 percent
now we have lot coverages of a maximum
of 70 or 80 percent so just by virtue of
that zone alone we've already allowed a
much larger maximum site coverage for
that
so those are the specific uh reasons why
we want to reintroduce this we feel it
would provide some incentive to the
development community to include
concealed parking if they saw another
benefit like additional units
for their development as well we thought
this was timely because there is also a
cost savings that we can advertise this
along with the
other
zoning obama bylaw amendment that i had
mentioned from
the last council meeting and then host
the public hearing on the same night as
well
so that concludes my summary on this
item
thank you mr pelo can you just restate
the part um
i almost got it where you were saying
that
we've allowed greater lot coverage
but didn't do something else
we didn't provide another incentive so
what we're saying is you can provide the
80
or more of your parking being
underground concealed in some format but
there's a cost associated with that so
what additional benefit is a developer
getting by adding those additional
construction costs to building that
underground parking well if they can get
more units per hectare there's you know
potentially additional sales
that would be associated with an
increased density in their development
so that's that's what the incentive is
they have more units to rent or sell to
uh to the future
homeowner in that rare but we had
something in place in the old zoning
bylaw that
was an incentive this this very
amendment that we're bringing we're
essentially reintroducing what existed
in the 2006 zoning bylaw
and for whatever reason we're unclear as
to why in the 2011 and 2013 zoning bile
auditions that was removed we can't seem
to find record as to why that was done
but the lot coverage remained the same
so the lot coverage increased
but then the incentive disappeared
that's correct so that's also
a strange reasoning why the why the
incentive was removed but also the lot
coverage was also increased i'm not sure
what the what the logic was considered
at that time
okay there's there's one p it just
something's missing there for me but i
don't maybe it's that
possib possibly uh but yeah we're we're
unable to to determine why this
incentive which is clearly something
that we see as a benefit to to an
applicant to provide
um in addition to concealing that
parking
counselor st pierre
uh we had a few speakers from the public
that uh spoke specifically to this item
and at the time i didn't have a resp i
didn't want to respond
at that time in any sort of an
adversarial way but i do want to uh to
explain why i believe that density is
actually important in terms of
addressing our emissions
because one of our goals is to actually
increase density but it's not always
clear to the public
why density would actually decrease our
emissions
and the reasons are that by having
density we're actually discouraging
urban sprawl which means they're
actually affecting less of the habitat
that's available elsewhere so we have
more room for people
but we're not actually having urban
sprawl we're making better use of our
infrastructure means we don't need to
build additional wastewater pre-implants
rip up the roads to put in bigger pipes
or pour more concrete for all the rest
of that stuff and have more concrete to
sidewalks
so simply by putting more people to a
smaller area we're using less concrete
in all sorts of other ways
so it i mean it's obviously you need to
account for the concrete you need to
account for emissions but you also need
to account for those things
density in the public also allows us to
have a thriving local economy where you
can actually have more retail more
businesses more places to walk to from
places where we have more people that
actually allows us to reach our goals of
having a pedestrian friendly community
with jobs that are locally available
that allow people not to commute not
emit those ghgs
so in answer to why do we want density
and why is it a good thing
for all those reasons and many more that
i won't get into right now
but density this is not just just
something that we're doing to help
developers
we actually want developers to create
more density to help us in reaching our
climate goals
so i just wanted to you know kind of
push that out there because obviously
that message has not been made clear to
the public
thus far and it's it's kind of
unfortunate thank you
thank you councillor st pierre
councillor elijah knows
yeah so in your report your reference
that we might want to go to a floor area
ratio calculation as well and i like
that calculation because it's a simple
one
and
in the
the draft ocp
we have floor area ratios referenced in
there so are we not already
moving in that direction
excellent question yes that is
one proposed route but until the
official community plan has been
adopted uh and then at that time staff
would bring forward the necessary
amendments to the zoning bylaw to also
bring it into compliance i think we'd
want to have a little bit more
consultation on the whole zoning bylaw
package as we see
it coming into compliance with our
official community plan but yes that
that is
the route that we are proposing uh right
now in the current uh
official community plan that uh the
council will see for first reading
so so what we're looking at now is an
interim
solution
what we're looking at is a opportunity
to introduce a
incentive
that we feel the development community
could take advantage of we can further
elaborate on that through
floor area ratio once we begin to
establish that as our preferred method
for calculating density
i'm not sure there's a question here so
i should not
no statements at this point no there's
no motion only questions okay
okay
question
okay so that would be that council give
first and second reading to zoning
amendment bylaw number 840 600-90 2022
and that council direct staff to
schedule a public hearing for zoning
amendment bylaw number 840 600-90 2022
in accordance with section 466 of the
local government act moved by councillor
st pierre seconded by councillor bay
comment
not at this time good discussion at the
committee level thank you
thank you councillor bateman
and i agree i should likely save this
for the public hearing but just the
comment would be um you know our town
center is already quite heavily uh
um a lot of parking lot space in the
town center so our our future definitely
we need to have underground parking and
um
i think some of the creative solutions
that
ms belford raised tonight are good i
mean car shares
i think these are cited in the ocp
um
the transportation demand management the
bus passes and this new thought i hadn't
thought of this decoupling the cost of a
unit
minus parking but that would be
something for the
developer to consider as a way to
attract
anyway
i look forward to the public hearing
thank you councillor bateman councillor
meadows yeah i just i wasn't going to
comment but i will now um
i i did appreciate mrs belford's
comments and they're all wonderful ideas
but i guess the
reality of the next 10 15 years we're
going to still have a tremendous amount
of cars in suit
hopefully electric
and we go that way so i think in the
next while uh
you know putting them underground i'd be
very happy to see that so
unfortunately we're still going to need
cars and hopefully we can park them
underground thank you
and and just to that point
um you know having done property
management and and or been a renter in
my time i didn't always get a parking
spot
so i've rented from owners
who didn't have parking as an option
available uh didn't come with the suite
so at the time it wasn't an issue until
i got a car and then i had to find a
place to park it
and then other times when someone
usually when a building is built the
condo owners would own would get to
decide what their parking is maybe
there's one or two and they pay more for
that particular one in their unit
uh then if they go to rent it they can
market it accordingly but in some cases
it's it's up to the ownership group on
who chooses to buy as to whether or not
parking
and they pay for it like you pay for it
so it is
part of buying that unit
and then
others don't because they don't need one
so that's kind of their call um
but in some cases depending on the use
on the main floor
uh there could always be a requirement
to have parking uh to meet the use and
needs of humans
anyway i look forward to the public
hearing too on this matter
okay so i'll call the question all those
in favor please
and that's unanimous thank you i recall
now that i didn't do the scheduled
health break at 8 20.
so
okay we're okay
everyone to carry on okay i'm not seeing
in
i'm not seeing any new business uh no no
correspondence so council verbal
i don't know
it depends on what you're doing
uh we had correspondence from uh i
didn't see it in the correspondence
package from lynn west uh with regards
to firework damage and i realized that i
didn't understand
um what our own regulations with regards
to fireworks were so is that course is
that correspondence on tonight's no it
wasn't okay so um
i was hoping that we might be able to
get a report or just information from
staff when this does come up as to what
our actual regulations are with regards
to fireworks
what we have that controls them do we
have any controls in place that type of
thing
okay so we'll follow up for that i'm
seeing a nod um
and uh feel free to call chief writer in
the meantime but the correspondence is
making its way to us
it's likely the cut off date that was it
that's all okay
well next time chief when it's on the
agenda thank you
okay okay turn off your microphone okay
council reports
i'm just reminding folks to turn off
their microphone go ahead counts are
better it's not really a committee but
we did mention uh very briefly about
canada day i can give you a bit of an
update if you wish uh one is
talking to a very
good staff member here uh this she this
person i won't mention her name
suggested instead of cake that we do
cupcakes because of cobit and i thought
that was a marvelous idea and i think
that's where we're probably gonna go
just let you know that it's going before
the community association
tomorrow night at their meeting and once
they get the okay
then
we'll proceed with
the whole program
the idea is that we
my understanding
is we're not going to go to an all-night
event there will not be fireworks only
because we can't get fireworks
there's a shortage and even the nine
o'clock gun in vancouver can't fire
anymore because they can't get black
powder
so there's no guarantee that we get them
so instead of going from
noon or one o'clock to ten o'clock at
night we're going to go from
noon to six
and have an abbreviated version uh the
logging show will be there
and it does involve a three thousand
dollar deposit
and uh
if it's canceled by any of us they just
keep it to the next time that they can
show up at which they did the last time
um so it'll be an abbreviated one uh we
will be doing uh vips and honor guard
and things like that
so it is going to happen and i'm just
tickled pink that we're going to have
something in this community that we can
celebrate although we will miss the
fireworks but it might be something that
i know the chief is looking into other
venues for the fireworks for the future
because of the fire hazards maybe do
them over the harbor
that's in his capable hands
but
it's moving ahead
thank you counselor betos um
and that makes sense
really that might help save some money
on costs
uh yeah there is uh some thoughts about
asking for more money but i think with
the budget we have it'll be close uh we
may be just fine uh you know we're not
we don't have to hire security all night
yeah uh the buses don't have to run uh
that long still need a bus i suspect but
uh you know it'll be paid for by the
hour so uh there could be some cost
savings and uh there's some pretty good
consultant staff here that have
experience putting events on and not
just cupcakes but could be other good
ideas there too
no that's great because some you know in
the past we have had challenges with the
fireworks extreme
weather events that prohibit us from
discharging them with good reasons so we
made that call
and then it was
brought to my attention that um when the
uh the launch site moved across
uh to the other side of the river that
some of the embers might have damaged
the all-weather field so the proximity
to the field with the debris that falls
um might be a challenge so it makes
sense to actually look at what a better
location would be
and then just
you know i sort of think with the
weather trends
maybe it'll be a flight of drones in the
future
that we're starting to see in various
places because it's just impossible with
the extreme weather to launch them
still you know and so it's something
just to we'll get more information on
but that that's fine okay other updates
counselor bateman sure um so very
exciting on friday for the library
opening um you know 7.5 million dollars
and
uh you walk in and you
you know on friday afternoon it was
filled with with
young children and their parents and a
lot of teenagers and
a number of us old-timers sort of
wandering around
uh marveling at at um
this modern library here in the heart of
souk it was quite something
[Music]
there was also the coldest night of the
year walk on saturday night which raised
twenty one thousand dollars again this
year for the sioux shelter society
and the mayor and
the shelter society's melanie cunningham
did some opening remarks and the mayor
made the good point that the colors this
year
of the the toque are yellow and blue and
the ukraine right there so you bridge
that because it was a
you know the opening of the library and
uh
the coldest night of the year and the
possible outbreak of world war iii all
at once so
kind of puts things in perspective
i also you mentioned the guiding lights
uh the the girl guides event which i as
acting mayor i got to
to um
i don't know what i did i spoke and
councillor betos was there and
ms frobel from corporate services was
there to switch on the light
and among the things i said was i
celebrated the fact that this council
has
three women
as role models and examples of the
possibilities
for girls and women in this brave new
world and i urge them all to identify
and follow their various blisses and to
effectively take no
right
and we were rewarded with all those
cookies
right
a half dozen boxes most of which went
into the staff
lunchroom so hopefully
oh
they were devoured very rapidly
and finally the climate action committee
last week we were the
amazing presentation by jack anderson i
don't know are you going to speak to
this
council saying pierre no
so uh jack anderson's with nanaimo based
green plan and he brought forward the
idea of the farm hamlet template which
is a farm micro village
basically
by any other name and it's a place that
provides housing solutions
on farmland for farming families
while improving community food security
and
so on a
piece of land you would have on the
piece that is the least
uh
arable no that's not the right word
arable yes um that's where you would
cluster a collection of
permanent and temporary housing
and um this would be truly affordable
get people back on the land and and
working and
it's it's
the proposed proposal will be coming to
council
um with a request for a staff report so
the climate action committee approved
that
and the great thing here is mr anderson
is backed by uh
the
consultants on this project include guy
doncy
um
who we all know i believe and heather
pritchard from farm folk city folk
and a gentleman with quantum college in
food security who actually lives here in
sioux
and
ceo mckinnis and councillor st pierre
have all
it's quite an exciting project and it's
a pilot project that
is scalable to to small or larger farm
settings and
here in the 50th anniversary year of the
agricultural land commission it's it's a
really brave bold new
solution to
a number of issues
so
thank you councilor bateman councillor
largeness
yeah um
the
uh
climate action committee the jack
anderson's presentation i was thoroughly
impressed with that as well and also
with
our climate action coordinator and her
presentation i thought was was great as
well
um
i
met with the
community act dev committee last week
where
ms carrollsfeld also presented
on
metrics and tools for green business and
souk
and we also had an
excellent presentation from jonathan
dick and sandra richardson from victoria
foundation and vital signs
was very encouraging and the work that
they do is just
amazing i didn't take very good notes i
can't tell you too much about it
but
and i also visited the library on the
weekend and just was thoroughly
impressed with the quality of
construction and it's just a beautiful
space and i think i'm going to be
spending quite a bit of time there
and other than that i just want to
um
say that my thoughts are with the people
of ukraine and all of europe actually
and i have and with russia as well i
have a lot of russian friends
and what's happening there is not
the russian people it's one lunatic
that's that's causing all the grief
there and
so i don't want people to
um
think badly of the russian people
because they're not in favor of what's
happening either
that's it
thank you councillor lajness
uh just to close myself um i was on the
selection committee uh for the order of
bc a couple of years ago
and so the event there was a virtual
recognition of the
of the recipients a couple of years ago
but the event itself was postponed and
delayed due to count due to covet
obviously but it's actually going ahead
this thursday so they're putting them
uh together at at government house
uh so i'll have the opportunity to
attend that event uh in person which
will be really nice to think about what
to wear it's kind of been a while right
uh and then also i'm on the bc
achievement award so this is where i'm
sort of confusing the selection and
processes together because just what's
on my mind at the moment
but it's inspiring work
to read through all of the nominees and
just to see how
folks are making a difference in their
respective communities this is for bc
and then my role is to pick out the top
40 which is proving to be nearly
impossible because
there's it's just amazing work that's
occurring it's very inspiring
um
one thing i do have coming up on
international women's days i might have
shared with you my involvement with un
habitat and the urban development group
so they're doing a two-day session
north america women and
and urban
sustainability goals so i'll be one of
the speakers
on the second day
and it's always fascinating just as i
look through the program and who will be
speaking so
there's um because it's in ontario there
are a lot of folks from ontario
including the lieutenant governor there
uh followed by different mps and so
forth but there's a speaker coming from
mexico that'll be talking about the
feminist approach in the mexican content
member of parliament from winnipeg
several from different treaty nations
uh the canadian center for women's
empowerment and so forth so it's it's
it's all on zoom which sometimes has its
challenges but um
again it's always very exciting for me
though this means my day starts at 5 30
because i'm always like is that pacific
time no my it's eastern time as we
always tell you but
i'm like that's okay it's it's an early
start so that's coming up in something
um
you know i i find the work expiring
uh lovely for the library to open and
look forward to that grand opening event
i think they're just still finalizing
the time i believe
march 26th at 1 pm it has been finalized
at 1 pm okay good i was going to ask
that and then just timely with the souk
shelter walk because
after i
parted ways i went to get takeout in
route 14 and there was a bit of a queue
outside and so the folks waiting to go
inside or the folks sitting in the
window and looking out would see like
gaggles of small groups going by
and so many thought it was a a walk uh
to support the ukraine so then someone
said to me well why are they not all
together and it keeps breaking up into
groups like what i just left it right
because
like i don't want to say that i'm
eavesdropping but it's fine and and a
lot of people were also giving that
support so i think that was important as
well
uh we have over a million
uh folks with ukraine heritage within
our country i'm not sure how many in
suit but of course we're all touched by
this
and i find the events um
very alarming and and
worrisome for sure i think it's a
frightening time right now so i try to
keep the conversation light at home but
of course it's with us all the time so
my thoughts of course as well and i
agree with you there's some really good
people in russia that are terrified
about what's happening here there's
there's no doubt about that
okay council thank you all i'm our
member of the public that stayed with us
mr mcinnis thank you worship i just want
to mention that uh we were able to
source a uh ukraine flag today it will
be here tomorrow
our flag policy
section for courtesy flags it doesn't
necessarily directly fit but
i think we're going to put this under a
district event and that does give the
ceo and the mayor some latitude so
there's no objection uh we'll replace
the district's uh flag with the ukraine
flag uh sometime tomorrow for a period
of time
thank you very much norm thank you for
getting on that so quickly i um and
thanks to jennifer for her work today
and sourcing that real quickly and
having it delivered tomorrow
that's great because i thought oh i
should have i should have
mentioned that friday because by monday
they're all
they're going to be very hard to find
but i'm glad you found one no that'll be
great thank you for that
okay so on that note folks um be well
i'll call now for a motion to adjourn
please move by counselor saint pierre
seconded by councillor elijah nass
see there it's like this needs to be a
little narrower because like you can't
see
i can't i can't see you all and honestly
like this like you start to get motion
sickness after like i'm getting dizzy
which is why i tend for a while i need
to just look in one direction so i'm not
trying to ignore you
but
i just make a noise it it makes me a bit
ill like it's just the way it goes so i
don't need to leave anyone out i just
can't
see that way that's all anyway okay call
the question on german all in favor
that's unanimous thank you everyone
thank you