Recording in progress.
Okay. So sit here, you're still waiting for people, right? Okay, so we're going to talk about the lighting a little bit later at the conclusion of the regular meetings. And we don't have.
So we're going to go through the approval of the reports and resolutions, and then we should hit the work sessions pretty fast.
I did ask Ward to please see if he could get on. I asked him to come to the meeting, but Jen is very sick with COVID.
And so he didn't I told him it maybe wasn't appropriate to show up here and he's gonna see if he can
Hopefully, he'll get on
There's somebody waiting in the waiting room and that's Ward, Hanover
So hey Ward I
So Ward we're gonna go through a couple of things and then we'll go into the work session and we'll start with the flooding stuff, okay?
We can talk to someone
board. Can you hear us? He can unmute himself. You got it. You're good.
You can stay muted.
We're not going to. Okay. Okay. So the approval of the reports, the highway department
report, these are also for September 2020-23, the planning board financial report, the police
department monthly report, the receiver of taxes, monthly reporting, including any tax refunds,
recreation department, monthly reports, supervisor, monthly report, town clerk,
work month of report, and he changes addition deletions.
Nope.
Okay, well accept them as delivered then, thank you very much.
The, the town board, excuse me, the general bills, the town bills.
And I think everybody saw the package that Maria put together.
Yep.
Was all the town bills totaling $246,660 and 72 cents?
As listed on abstract number 10, claim 646 through 17,
the order approved, the order paid, and I'll make that motion.
Second.
I vote aye.
The highway bills, the highway bills totaling $41,11.99 is listed on abstract number 10.
It claims 298 through 324 of the ordered and approved order paid and I'll make that motion.
Second.
All in favor.
Hi.
I vote aye.
Also.
Next one is the point of member to the architecture review board and we interviewed March last weekend.
She seems to be an absolutely wonderful candidate.
I don't think anybody has any questions or I know there's no concern.
So I'll make the motion, we got a second.
Result for the town board here by appoints Marjorie Sobellack to the ARB with the term to expire April 14, 2025.
And I'll make the motion and you can.
And I will second it.
And then we're good to go.
All in favor.
Hi.
And I vote.
Congratulations to Marjorie.
Thank you.
Marjorie.
Absolutely.
It's great.
It always impressed me.
Thank you very much.
Every time I talk to people in town that volunteer for things, I'm always overly impressed
with their skills.
People have it.
Really is impressive.
She's one of them too.
The CAC, Pam Pouley, we're going to just acknowledge her resignation from the CAC Martin.
I don't know if you want to say anything.
Yeah.
Well, Pam has been a long-term member of CAC, very helpful, very knowledgeable.
eligible. She is the chair of the trustees of open land and there's only so much time
a person has so we thank Pam. We're happy that we have great candidates coming through
for CAC and I hope anyone who's listening in tonight and may be interested puts in a request
It tries to be considered the more of the barrier.
So, yeah, thank you, Pam.
Okay, so it was out of the town board here by acknowledges
the resignation of Pam Pooley from the CAC for a term,
for the term ending October 31st, 2023,
and I'll make the motion.
Second.
All in favor, I'm sorry.
Hi.
You're not good, thanks so much.
Thank you, Pam.
Number five is to authorize the supervisors,
signed a agreement with Civic Plus.
Plus this is the company that does our website stuff, they host it and everything and their
software is what runs it.
And it's $2,700 a year to have it there.
It was $2,350 and they did up it and we argued for quite some time but at this point it's
going to be $2,700.
Resolved at the town board here by authorizes a supervisor to sign a agreement with Civic
Plus LLC for an annual reoccurring website services that are cost of $2,700 put the attached
That's quote 35081-1.
I'll make the motion.
Do I have a second?
Second.
Oh, my favorite.
Hi.
I'm sorry?
Yeah, somebody in the waiting room.
Oh, thank you.
Chris Brockmeyer.
Of course.
Well, it's a name there.
Hello.
OK.
There he is.
The next one is police computers for the cars.
We have exactly 25,000 in this year's budget.
and Tom was showing me a couple of the ones he wanted.
I went back to logically and I said these seem to be more
appropriate, a little bit faster and there's a couple of
things that were just in their cheaper.
So instead of getting three, we will be able to get four.
And so Warren, I just should add this strength
that everyone's resolved.
I called up Tom just to make sure that I went tech
with troubleshooting any pickups from the installation
and is a long history of dealing with them,
very satisfactory, and they've done that in the past,
so gave me a lot of confidence in hiring them.
And the ones that we have right now,
I think they're nine years old.
They're running Windows 7,
and we've kept them because the New York State police software
runs on Windows 7.
And I think they're finally getting around upgrading it,
but at any rate, those machines are in the life
in the very slow, so these are a bit fast,
so they're I7 processors.
And these are tough books so they can go in a car and they can go over bad roads and you can drop them and spill stuff on them.
And they apparently worked for a long time because we've had them for nine years.
So let's hope these last at least that long.
Resolved the town board hereby authorizes a supervisor signed a agreement with Island Tech ITS for purchase and installation of four
or amounted Panasonic Toughbook 55 laptops
with the North Sound Police Department.
This includes the laptops, some of the software
and the new mounting supports in the cars.
A $24,561 for the attached quote dated September 26th, 2023.
I don't make that motion.
Second.
All in favor.
Hi.
We have a tax refund and there are two here.
One is a $2 refund, which we
just read and resolve the time board.
The thereby authorizes the following tax refunds from September 23rd and September 2023
tax collection.
And that's a Lake Thorn, a Lake Horthorn Homeowners Association at $344, $354 an AX road
for $2.
The overpayment and the amount of $2 should be paid directly to Lake Horthorn Homeowners Association
P.O. Box 124 Perties, and the other is for Roman and Angela Titla, and that's a double
payment of their school tax for a refund of $3,985.79. The double payment refund in the
out of 3985.79 should be made payable to CoreLogic centralized refunds P09202
Copal Copal. Texas 75019 reference summa federal CU, Lender 888126 in
contract 031-63728 on the check. And I'll make that motion just with a quick
comment usually what happens is somebody pays the bill and the mortgage
company decides they're going to pay it to so we can't keep both. We've tried the past but it
doesn't work. They come after it generally. So I'll make the motion as it's written. Second.
All in favor. Hi. And I vote aye. The next one is just a simple transfer from the deputy town clerk
to the town clerk contractual excuse me from the town clerk contractual to the deputy clerk line
because the deputy town clerk got a I got a step raise in was it September 1st or October 1st?
So this is resolved the town board here by authorizing the following budget transfer from account a 1-4-104
Town clerk contractual from $250 to a 1-4-1012 deputy clerk for $250 and I'll make that motion.
Second.
On favor.
Hi.
I already ordered these. Hopefully you'll allow me to pay them.
I guess we had a little bit of an issue there with a couple.
but this is a, these are meters for the water systems as they break an age.
We, we were down to three and we had a couple of broke ones that they had to replace.
So I ordered them and they showed up immediately which was kind of surprising.
Last time it took us four months to get them.
These are for 18 new meters and it's 4,658 dollars and 15 cents.
and these are ones you read electronically.
Resolved the town board here by approved the payment
in the amount of $4,658 and $15 cents
for the purchase of 18 water meters
for the attached invoice number 118-6219
from Ferguson Waterwork status at 10th of 29th, 2023.
This we charge to people like sewer district 813-0.43
and we'll be distributed and build as needed.
So I'll make the motion again with just a comment
just so everybody's aware.
The meters come in rather than buying one for here
and two for there they go to the peeps like sewer district and then we just
build them back. They end up getting paid by whatever water district and that's
something I'm following up on all that now because we've probably gone through
about 18 or 20 of them. So I'll make the motion is written. Second, my
favorite. Hi. Hi. And I wrote I. And the next one we agreed to the contract and we're
just approving a payment and it came a little bit late so we're adding it on here
and it's 5,400 for night securities.
It's the balance of the installment
for the camera security system
at the Northam Community Center.
So this is resolved at the town board here
by approved the payment in the amount of 5,400.
Tonight security systems for the balance
of the installment costs of the camera security system
for Northam Community Center at three-hones road
for invoice 107-324-dated, May 5th, 2023.
And again, that was, as I said, already approved
So, I'll make that motion had written.
Second.
All in favor.
I vote there.
Okay.
So, we have a number of things on the work session here,
and I guess, Ward, can you hear me okay?
I hear you.
Okay, we can hear you, too.
I know there's a bunch of people here today,
and I think we'll talk about,
we want to talk about the flooding first.
Is that okay?
Are you here for a water?
Who's here for something other than just the water problem?
Well then we'll talk about the flooding first.
So I don't know if anybody wants to start talking.
I had a, I think between the end of August and last weekend,
it's been pretty crazy.
I think a lot of us have had some issues.
In fact, I've probably had about 20 or 30 calls
into parts of town.
Wardenite, I've been talking on a pretty regular basis.
I even have problems over in Lewisboro that are coming
in the North Salem, and I've been talking to the supervisor down there on those things.
And I quoted some of the stuff that I got in emails to everybody here.
So we have a bunch of different issues around town.
And then we have some people here that want to probably talk about some specific stuff.
Or I don't know if you want to say anything specifically about drainage.
Oh, by the way, let me just one quick thing.
One of the things we did do a couple, I did about three or four weeks ago because we're
working on the resiliency plan, or we need to do that, they're asking all
municipalities to put together a resiliency plan that says, you know, we need
generators, we need to fix drainage systems, we need, and so I'd ask Ward, very
before I realize everybody was going to be calling me up with the last couple
rains, but it said you need to start writing all this stuff down so we can
actually put it back into the capital budget because some of these things they
work well for a number of years, and this year with all the water that we've had, it's
just running off and causing problems with people's homes and stuff. I have the same
problem, I think I said maybe one or two of you, the pictures of my house and my front
lawn. But, anyway, over at Peach Lake, and we've been working on that, by the way, Tony
Hay, agreed last week to, I met him on Wednesday, he's going to dig the pipe up on Cobb Road
and put a bigger pipe in because I've had this flooded over there in Peach Commons.
the sales are actually in the lake.
The sales of all the superliver of the town.
Tony's a supervisor on Southeast.
And I did use the word sue of well sued as you know,
and I did that for a reason.
Not to be nasty.
I mean, Tony and I get along well,
but he called me up and gets well.
You use that word to screw the DC permits.
I'm just going to do it.
So he's that's that's going to go in.
Well, they're starting today.
I think it started today.
Yeah.
Yeah, and then there's a new bridge going in next year, so this is just temporary
But they're dropping the pipe a little bit and they're basically doubling the the capacity of the water outflow
So there's just I have issues all over the place in fact, they're also starting the
To remove the weeds this week. They had a hundred and fifty thousand dollar grant
So we just did killer hills. I had a problem over there. We finished sunset a couple years ago both of those two drainage systems cost us
Well, they cost not necessarily us because we got grants
they cost over a million dollars and in awards been dealing with a lot of road issues and stuff with
dirt roads filling up catch basins and clogging things and so I asked them to put a resiliency plan
in place and there's just a lot of this in town right now so I'll just kind of turn it over to you
I don't know how long you can stay with it.
I'll stick around for a minute. It's just been an, you know, a crazy amount of rain this last month. And I think that all together has really caused the biggest part of the issues.
Most of our drains is designed to handle an inch and a half of rain storm on average. When we started getting two to three inches of rain, four inches, five inches, we just can't handle it. And stuff starts to get, you know, washed where it's not supposed to be.
So I don't know if this is going to be the new norm.
If it is, then we need to start thinking about, you know,
putting a lot of money into different drains,
more engineering into it to find a better way to do it.
And we have a few suggestions I do.
Some of our biggest problems are the hills under dirt roads
have really just been really bad the last month.
So we try putting some millings down, ground up black top, helped a little bit, but I think a couple of these hills we're going to have to really seriously start thinking about black top and parts of them or, you know, hills, you know, they have a certain steepness to at least, or we're, you know, we're never going to gain any ground with it.
So
that's about all I guess is there a way to pack down the the dirt any better, you know, no, no, don't we hold so long when the water starts to run, it takes everything with it.
You know, and we don't have as much problems with, you know, things being washed out on blacktop roads because the water runs on the blacktop, it doesn't take it with it.
So do you find that the water, the way water runs on millings which are, I think, a pretty
good solution or is something comparable to running on black cow?
It's better than running on dirt or item 4, yes, but it's still not, you know, not the same
as black cow.
Right.
Yeah, not perfect.
But, you know, it will help.
Yeah.
You know, we're washing thousands of yards of material, down pipes, industries, and ponds,
and lakes, and reservoirs. I mean, it's just, we just can't keep doing it. It's, uh, you know,
it's crazy. We got, we have to do something different.
I,
I, I just hope that, uh, I hope there were extremely selective about what we're talking about.
Well, I think, I think what it's, I think Peter is going to take a group of people to get together
and, you know, let's pick the worst parts and start there.
I mean, I'm not saying let's black top,
let your roads in any way shape or form.
I'm just saying that we need to do something
on these hills that, you know, they're just not staying there.
And, you know, we've been doing this for years.
And, you know, the pond at the bottom of the hilltop is completely filled in.
There's ponds everywhere that are completely filled in with our dirt roads.
Basically, you see what they look like. I mean, you see the ditches on the sides of the
roads. Every ditch that's not there, any road that's not there is in the river or somewhere.
So I mean, at some point, we have to do something that we have to be selective at all.
Oh yeah, no, I totally agree that we have to be selective. I mean, absolutely. And we don't
I don't have to do any more than what we need to go either.
I understand.
I do like the idea of getting an engineer to just take a look at it
before we put the black top down,
if that's where we're going with this.
We need to figure out how to stop,
but the water on the road on the ground goes over to the sides,
but then it eats the entire side of the road out.
I know.
There are things like, you know,
there's metal things that hold the big rocks.
I mean, I just wonder if we've got something to look at.
The problem with things that you put in like that pattern is once the dirt washes up against them they've lost their value now because you have to take them all out to clean all the dirt back out of them.
I mean years ago we tried just black top of the gutters on the dirt roads.
I mean this is years and years ago and they worked great until you had a big rain and then the gutter stayed in the took out the middle of the road because it's going to wash whatever it can.
So, I mean, we've tried a lot of different things, you know, we've put a lot of drainage in on the dirt roads.
It's just when you get those storms like we've been having.
And right now, the ground is so saturated that every bit of rain defaults and those fields up on top of Bales Lane end up down the roads.
I mean, the fields are not taking any water right now.
So I'm trying to get as much open right now before we get another two inches this weekend because we're going to be having the same problem again.
I'm calling it groundhog stay over and over again for me lately.
So yeah, I mean it's word you raised the right point. I mean like how do we figure out what's going to happen if we're going to you were you were on
Well, so the other day for the call on Saturday and a road was liquefied. It wasn't like a drainage thing was just in the middle of the road and that that's not a sustainable.
Well, what was really interesting is that small section of Norton, you know,
Vail and, you know, Norton, where it comes up to 116, you know, that goes over the bridge
there.
Yeah.
If you go down that road on your left hand side, I mean, I think the trench that the runner
off created is probably close to three feet.
Yeah, deeper than that. And in Header, we've already put that road back together three times this fall, this summer, this, that's the four time that Dan has gone down.
Are there any, just before we leave dirt roads, are there any towns? I mean, Bedford, I know has some. He may have already paved their steep parts. I don't know.
So he said, yeah, a lot of their hills did get black top.
So, and I know Louis Pearl has gotten rid of just about every
good road they have.
I think they have two left.
They're black top tomorrow.
So, you know, we have, we have a lot of great roads that we
can leave.
We don't have like, you know, the top of the lane is perfectly fine.
Baxter, 90% of it, 99% of Baxter is perfectly fine.
You know, with the problem there by Gil Schott's house and, you know, that to me that hill should be blacktopped.
I mean, the damage, you know, we're doing down onto the neighbor down there at all the post offices.
You know, we've cleaned his driveway out four times already, and it needs it again now.
So, every time it rains it ends up in his front parking lot there.
So, I'll try to get together and look at it.
You have to hit mute,
you're on mute, you have to stop the speaker.
It's going to be a lot of fun.
Function F, something on top.
Yes.
Thank you, Warren.
So we talked a little bit about the dirt roads.
I think probably what we should do
is just talk about some individual stuff.
I know we have, we've purchased along
with the Openland Foundation, you know,
I think it's that yours, Brian.
You're on Perst Street, right?
Yeah.
So we've purchased 65 acres up on the top of the hill there.
Perth is preserved.
I could get the exact name even.
Perth's age?
Perth is rich, yeah.
And that has a stream coming kind of dry stream.
It's usually dried, but not this year, and that comes down
behind. I think it's behind your ass and Brian's ass. There's a
few people on the first street that on the upside of the
first street. I don't even know what had it. I don't even know
how to start there, but I know that's a problem at times. And
I know maybe you just want to talk about it now on what you're
seeing. Brent does it on occasion. Do you have to use the
microphone?
My name is Brian Mann, I'm a resident on First Street in Perthies.
I just want to thank Mr. Lucas.
He responded to my email on a Sunday.
So I guess he's a giant fan probably not watching them either.
So I've been a resident, I'm under dead and I'm last house.
I've been there for 22 years now.
I've been dealing with my house is right at the bottom of the hill on the preserve there.
So I've been dealing with run-off and I've had series of drains and ditches and I've taken care of myself
I go out on the street. I got to clean out the along the road every year sort of water can
drain away from my house
But over the last three years now the last three thores
There's a significant amount of run-off for probably four to six weeks after the thore between
Which my house and my next door neighbor coming the thore so the spring thore so the spring thore
The water that's coming finally coming off the hill dry and out dry from the snow and we didn't have snow last year
And we still had it. It's never happened in all the years. I've been there. It's the last three years
So my neighbor and I were talking about it and it it runs for several weeks with no rain
And we've had a lot of rain recently, but in the past when there was no rain
It's still it still would run now in the last two years
Whatever wherever the water was channeling along the top
probably going past my house. It's now starting to cut paths through the
homes down the block. So unfortunately Brent's home is one of those his driveway
keeps getting washed out. I took video of the rain this I know the amount of
rain that we just got recently was substantial but the amount of water which
never we've had a lot of rain over 22 years we've had some some storms come
through. The amount of rain the amount of water coming through each of amazingly
they didn't get into the homes, it was between each series of homes, there was five homes,
there was five rivers between each of the homes coming out onto the street and for the
first time I've ever seen it, the water was coming across the street, missing the storm
drain, the storm drains are on the east side of the street, there's only one on the west
side, one drainage. The water was coming across onto the properties now that are on the west
side of the street. So the issue of the concern I have is there's houses on the west side, houses on the east side. The water's coming.
Yes.
Okay. Yeah. So the east side is your house on the uphill side.
I'm like right at the end. So I'm.
But the uphill side is the uphill side would be the east side correct. So the issue that the concern I have is the water's coming down.
Everyone has septic systems.
the amount of water that's coming down, forget about it could flood a basement easily,
but if it starts to flood out septics, and then that washes out to the west side of the street,
and you have that water running into the resident's lawn, which could potentially get down to
their well system, or flood out there septic, and then behind those homes going down to 684,
you have the state watershed land, which abuts the property there as well. And this last time,
And now there's been a, it was a decent amount of runoff.
The hill next to Brent's house started to wash out.
So it's the last several times.
We had to have debris on the roadway.
It's obviously going to be getting to winter soon.
It's going to get chilly.
And that's going to freeze over.
And we kind of had an issue to last year with the water sits
on the road, just because the storm drains can't.
They're not handling it.
It's just the volume of water is just too great.
So the real issues is concern is that the septics, we may start
to get flooding, flood out some of these septics, and then we may have a bit of a hazardous
condition on the roadway if we get. And I know we had a lot of rain, but prior to this
rain, we've had, it's starting to happen more frequently prior to the specific rain. So,
however the warders decided to move up on the hill, it's now moving at a extremely fast pace and
it's starting to hit like five homes or six homes on that side of the street. It just opened up.
I'm sure you've got over the years of all the trees coming down with trees falling the woods all or you're long you hear them fall so
I don't know how that's going to be you know addressed by the town but it's obviously an issue.
Well can I ask you a question on that property which we both own open land foundation? Is the town away to go on and move dirt around and stuff?
I mean it's,
well we paid 90% they paid 10%, we paid 10% over here there.
They paid for the conservation.
Okay, so with the conservationism and on it can we go on and do anything on the property?
Dig and move things.
A drainage proposition.
Yeah, approximately, what's the distance of behind the houses that are on your street?
I mean, if the, yeah, is it half a mile long?
No, so I would say from this recent rain from my house to maybe 900 feet, a thousand
feet from my house down the block, it is.
And are most of the how close are the backs of the houses to the, to the, to the ridge?
They're old.
They're right.
But like the ridge comes down onto my property, and all the homes, there's not much property.
I mean, there can't be more than 100 feet if that from the homes to the ridge.
So, there's nothing mitigating the water coming down, there's nothing there to stop it.
Unless each individual person puts their own drainage system.
But if everybody puts their own and it's not either done properly or it spills out.
Now, where is it going to, they would all need to run off right into the storm drain. Otherwise, you have the same issue, which all that order is going to put
a drainage trench to the back of all houses on that road. I mean, I don't know if that's reasonable, but I don't know what they have in their backyard. But something to catch the water off and then disperse it in a reasonable larger way. Well, like I said on that side.
side of the street, you actually have the storm drain running along that side of the street,
which was obviously designed to catch water from the hill before we'd go over the roadway.
So any type of drainage that would be done behind the homes could theoretically be channeled
into the storm drain between the home, you know, if you had a series of them,
between that, that's what I was thinking.
Something of that effect.
And then the homes on the opposite side of the street wouldn't be affected by it.
The water would already be caught and run off.
So there's somebody dug something, I'm not sure who.
One of my neighbors went up there in the summer and you could see that it looks like
at one point it was dug out to catch the water.
or like I said, probably ran to my property
where it's supposed to run past it.
But I think it came to it because I've walked it
before the neighbors, I don't know what to do.
The Bernalinos.
Passed them.
I'm down and it kind of, I thought it was up
toward Titicus River Road in that direction.
I didn't go very far.
Yeah.
I think it was.
It's filled in though.
Now over the years, over all the rust,
it's not maintained so correct.
You know, it's not maintained, you know.
It's like some, why aren't I, I think,
I think I looked this up for you and Ward years ago, oh sorry, Drew, I think everything's
in place legally for the town to maintain that, but it should be revisited because I think
it was done as part of the subdivision.
There's also not this last storm, but the Friday before.
There was water coming off, Perdy's ridge down Old Schoolhouse, and also the homes that
are on mills. So you have homes on mills going up the hill, over where, you know, Devamore
is and those homes there, where the water is coming off the ridge and going through the
properties and hitting mills road. And I know that there's a couple of folks here that
live on mills road that probably want to speak to that. But the water that runs in that
direction that crosses mills affects the houses, of course, on the other side of the
Street, you know. I don't know if you are opposite opposite the cost was right. Yeah,
worry. Do you want it? You have to get on the speaker microphone. Unfortunately do this.
Hi, Maureen Ekman. I'm at six mils road, which is almost at the bottom by first street.
But really what I wanted to say tonight is that the stormwater drainage system that was
built in 1900 by a New York city has expired its life expectancy.
That's when it was installed.
I've talked to word about it. We're not quite sure what's under the road, what it's capturing,
what's failing, and I think we need as a town, you know, your properties or other
people's properties even up Mills Road and Cotswell, because I know Cotswells a
couple years ago the water coming off of their property had to be
coverted underneath and gone on to the DEP property because there was so much
water coming off of it. So I think we need to look at it as a whole system.
And I'm just here tonight to see if we can get a commitment from the town board.
Thanks for having.
You know.
Yeah, I'll tell you the problem that I see is at some point in time we can't ring the
entire 65 acres with dorm water basins and stuff.
Oh, I'm not looking for that.
I'm looking for looking at the storm order system.
That's existing.
Now, see, board, maybe you want to comment, but I thought he said the cement and everything
had to come out.
And I don't think. No, no, she's talking about underneath all of our drainers, New York City installed
drainage when they did the dam. And there's a couple big, a couple of big. That was one call,
like a beehive brick structure in the center of the road that ends up taking all that water down
towards Titicus River. So we've never really had much to do with that. The surface water that we
We use this conveyed through pipes and a lot of it runs on top of the concrete gutters that are there now.
That's what our drain system consists of.
But there is drains under that New York City put in, I don't know, 1913.
I looked it up tonight and it showed that the towns of Bedford, Louisboro,
town had to give up certain streets and New York City would come in and build new streets
and the stormwater distrangers as well.
But in the last couple of months, that system that's on Mills Road is failing and the water
would have such velocity that it's starting to erode the roadway because it's hitting the
road at a right hand, you know, it doesn't, you can't turn it.
It's hitting the road and it's eroding certain spots.
There's a coming out from a perpendicular road.
Yeah, it's coming down to the schoolhouse and it's coming from the top of Mill's Road.
Would you accept that stuff to be still and usable safe if we cleaned it out,
whatever's down there?
It's eroding the road.
No, I know. I'm talking about the stuff that New York City put in.
I've never even seen it.
Okay, so I'd be out there, we're looking there.
I'm sorry,
could you say so? I didn't hear you, Ward.
No, I said, I've never looked down into the stuff that was underneath down there.
I did notice I spoke to Maureen the other day and I did go down and there are two pipes that come down
schoolhouse. There's an old clay tile that goes up towards Debbie Moore's house. I don't know where
that goes. That's like a 12-inch pipe but that must have been run in completely full during the storm.
because where that hit the gutter, it did erode some of the blacktop in the gutter
that we, you know, we can put that back together, fill it back in and re-blacktop it.
But I don't know, I don't even know where that plate comes from.
That comes from up in the woods behind their houses on that side towards Cotswall.
Well, there has to be some documents or something that lays some of the stuff out.
And I've been here, you know, almost 30 years with town,
And I never knew that place was there until the other day when that storm all of a sudden got uncovered or opened up
But I never noticed that place before
There's another black place that we have coming down schoolhouse. It dumps in there that I knew was in there, but
so yeah, I mean
There's a tunnel we have to do to figure it out
Yeah, I think you're gonna have to have an engineer come in and try and assess how much water do we have coming off and
I mean, like you say, how is it, first of all, is it the talent's responsibility to take
all the water, it comes off the piece of property up there? I mean, I guess in the end it's
going to be on the town, but we're not going to be able to handle 65 acres worth of stuff.
Yeah, I just want to say that's going to be a system that's going to be crazy to do.
So I don't know what the best answer with that is. So I
don't know how you fix that.
that. Um,
fix what? Fixed an amount of water that's coming off that property up there.
I mean, we can obviously deal with, you start including firewalls and everything else
it gets unmanageable. Yeah. But what would we have to do to fix mills near Marines and
And is it Kathy?
Is it Kathy?
Kathy.
And Kathy's house.
You know, other than ripen the street up and redesigned in the drainage system and
put, you know, more catch faces, more pipe.
Is there a possibility any place of going straight down the Tittings River Road on a T?
Is there any way we might...
You have to go through the properties.
I understand that.
Who is they?
other
up
in
schoolhouse on schoolhouse room.
Well they're probably
cargated steel or I mean the whatever it is the metal pipe of clay pipes in the
town put them in. No I think that it was done by a fire at home or it was up on
in house, the only number of property that also was my property. Because I can't be
good for your house if there's still water in those pipes. I mean, it obviously, if they're
collapsed, it's just going to sit there and go into the ground around.
Well, yeah, I mean, part of it is just getting it, again, we'll get an engineer or somebody,
but I think getting it off of the road instead of having it, we as a long downhill, slew
ways are really were to have there.
And we don't know what someone's going to try to say,
and they need to get somebody to look at.
It's actually a solution.
Now do you know what do you have that tells you all
of that stuff's there to you of any dark and face?
I have three. Many of you have been out.
You really didn't have anything.
a lot of them were done on a private home.
Oh, okay.
That's different.
The other is the street was done by New York City along with a pipe that goes down
to first street and middle and makes a right-hand turn down to the end of the street.
It's kind of hard for that to not be like that.
Yeah. You got to get it down to the river soon or the way that's where it's going to end up.
Yeah, I'm just saying, we don't know if it's a lot of the war that came in now.
I think the last thing, and I see things up on the surface that's left, if it's one of those.
Yeah, I don't know.
So we have kind of, besides first and mills, what do we get over and purge?
School house?
Okay, well, it's going to get out of bounds real fast.
Well, that's the three.
I think, do you think if affects any other streets and parties?
Well, you know, a lot of people have water in their basement and stuff, so it's been an
unusual storm.
At some point in time, you want to commit, but at some point in time, you know, to get
an engineer to study everything, to have made money, right?
Right, at some point in time it gets out of it gets.
I think there's one thing to feel like any of you
who's done to improve that form order of systems,
and what do you do here at the audition?
Ward, you can comment, you were talking to me the other day about it.
But what's that about what you wanted to do on that roadway?
On which side?
On Mills.
I said you have to take the concrete out and
put catch basins in pipe and then you know a black top it back and put curves down the road
but the residents there I know they like their concrete that they have there the concrete
look in front of their houses and you know that unfortunately if we go to do something there that's
not going to it's not going to stay we're going to have to change all that you know if you want to
make it better that's what we have to do we have to get rid of the old stuff and put something new
down on on both sides because right now the way the road is designed is most of the stuff on the
uphill side is supposed to take the water and when you have storms like we've been having and you
get the water coming down the schoolhouse and everything the last couple of times it jumped over
our drainage on the uphill side went across the road and now it's in-gating the drainage on
this lower side which is only designed just to take the water coming down the road not any extra water
And now you have all this extra water coming down and it's going down through everybody's
driveways and into their houses.
I mean, so the drainage on the downhill side needs to be improved also.
If you're going to go do this and look into the future, then that's what needs to be done.
But like I said, I'm not an engineer.
You know, I can build things, but I don't design things.
That's someone else's job.
So I can make suggestions, but to me, that's what it's going to take.
It's going to take an engineer to come in here and say, the system is...
Okay, it's going to work, we could do this, we could do that, we're going to come in and we're going to say we've got to start from scratch and redo the whole tent. And then, you know, you're talking a lot of money. So the collection day, it's all going to be money at the end of the day. That's what's going to control it. The collection side is on the south side, which is towards schoolhouse. Yeah. And it has been overflowing on our side.
because I don't know, 15 years ago, actually Bowie had to come out and build a curve on my side
because the water jumped over the swell and wiped out everything that was there. Next door
Ed who had been there for a hundred years, he built his own curb. Kathy doesn't have a curb.
I actually did away with the steps to my house because I had to build up the front elevation.
So it used to be just a little overflow on our side, and the collection was on the south side, but now you're right.
It needs to have either catch basins with some tank, but it needs to be designed.
I don't care if the concrete goes away, but I don't want just lactop slacked in there, because we lose volume, and then we'll have more of a problem.
What do you mean you lose volume what volume if you put black top on top of the
soil and you put two inches of black top now you have less volume of that
you have in the soil more of a better cement has to come out yeah that's you've
got to put drainage and you're going to do anything different there has to be
designed a curb it has to be you know it's not a small curb you know it has to be
designed thank you very much for your time everybody so
you know obviously we
of a town engineer. They're actually very good with store water. I mean, the first step
is to ask them to take a look at it. And then we'll have to figure out what a budget is.
Yeah, it's going to be a hundred and something on grand elitist.
Okay, well, we'll see what we got.
What else to
study it? It's going to cost, I mean, to study
all these aspects of design, anything, it's going to cost over a hundred grand problem.
that's my guess and I mean yeah at hundreds of dollars and at many multiple hundred
dollars an hour just goes fast but you know so there are some things that I
think we're responsible to deal with and water on the road is one of them there's
other things that we have to figure out what we I don't want to be in a
situation where I'm addressing every piece of water coming over 65 acres I don't
you'd have to tell me whether or even live or stuff like that.
Natural drainage is not responsible for it.
But once you channel it, you better do a good job.
Yep, yep.
Yes, my concern is we're setting ourselves.
The next group that comes up with the cops walls
and they want this done.
At some point in time, the answer is going to be no.
And I don't want to be in that situation either.
That doesn't make any difference. The only time it makes a difference is if there's
a lot of silt in the water, and they can get phosphorus mitigation. So if you had a
lot of stuff coming down, you know, like our dirt roads, types of things, where just soil
and everything is dumping down into the wetlands, then the east of Hudson watershed
I'm the treasure of that organization, so they will spend money to fix certain things.
So Sunset Ridge, Sunset Ridge, Sunset Drive and Ridgeway in that area down there, the
drains from my top of the hill, right, from a 32 Sunset drive went down the hill and
went all the way under a pipe, under 684 out into the reservoir.
and that washed the gully and that was, you know, you could drive across it. I mean, it was a pretty good gully.
And so because there was so much stuff going down there, so much silt things which has phosphorus in it which causes algae,
blooms and stuff, they spent, I'm guessing around four, five hundred thousand in there fixing that.
They just finished killer hills. We had another drain coming off the hilltop of the town put in.
And it was fine for a while until it finally digs in one spot.
And it took, if you fell into that, if you walked across that and fell in, you would die.
Yeah, you're not getting out.
Yeah, probably 25 deep of the rocks at the bottom, the whole way down the hill.
They just fixed that for us for, the work was a half a million, and they did engineering
on that also.
And that's because they got, on that particular one, the number they got was 32 kilograms,
So about 66, 68, 9 pounds, somewhere 70 pounds of phosphorus mitigation, that's how much
phosphorus the engineers estimated went in.
The DEC has to approve that, but that's what they got out of that, and that's worth
something to them.
So they will do that type of work, and we're funded by the DEC.
So those two I've been involved with in getting them to look at that, I've had them down
of various circles because we have problems on Nash Road, tons of silk dumping into Lake
candle with there, but that's not one they're terribly excited about. It doesn't
have enough phosphorus going in. So if there's a lot of silt and wash out and
stuff, yes, they would get involved. Otherwise, it's going to come down to the town
spending money. And the problem with getting it off of regular property, like my
house, I wanted to tell you, there's a drain that comes down on the one
16 and it clogs all the time and everything ends up running down the road into
my property. And my problem was a lake about what they have deep and I've spent
probably $60,000 people in water out of my basement over the years and in less
storm that you know it's dry now because I've just I've gone crazy. So I have
well there's a lot of people that have problems with water as I said I have houses
sitting their sills are sitting in water over in peach co-op and stuff and I
it's that's a different situation because the water never goes away and
and listen to drains out of the lake.
And we're trying to work on that.
So there's, I've had calls.
I was down in, I was talking to,
I think I mentioned Tony Gonzalez because of wild oaks
in the loose broad, dumps right on the Nash Road.
Up 45 acres, it goes into one of our catch basins
that ward managers, and it can't take the water,
obviously, in the rain.
And it goes right into Jerry Grinnell's house.
And it has for 50 years, right?
So I was down there this weekend
I'm looking at some different things.
I would suggest like you need a sum pump.
You can't get a sum pump in.
I'm not pointing at you on point in, Kathy.
$1 is one of the limitations of my knowledge
because of the value of the value.
So I have an experience from home.
But what I'm saying to you as a town
that fits the needs to be looked at.
Oh, yeah, without a doubt.
The problem, the statement I'm making, it's a more general one, which is at some point in time
We're going to say no because we just can't possibly deal with everything, right? I mean Catherine has two some pumps in her base
To keep the water out and I don't think it quite kept up this time
I don't know
so this has been a horrific year for water and I
Think there's probably some things we need to do on mills and we can see what we can do on behind first street
But I don't know where to put the water.
I mean, you can't just, I don't know where it would go.
It's the problem.
Sooner or later, it has to come down on the first street.
Or it goes behind you.
And I don't think we own that property.
I was just trying to look at it.
No, it does come down.
But just a couple of things.
At one point, the town dig did dig a trance
behind Bertolino's home.
So that's on first street.
They went up there and they dug it out.
And it was like, when I first moved in,
it was like an eight foot trench and no, no, no, no, eight years ago. They dug a trench.
Oh, was that eight years ago? So I'm sorry. We did dig a trench and type in an office
up there. No, it was actually, and so many. It was actually, you know, it weren't. It was
with the prior supervisor. Yes. Okay. And what happens and there is the
water right now when it comes off the hill, it drains between the homes down
down the first street. And then hopefully it gets picked up by the catch
basis. But I don't think that drain there isn't enough to take all the water off
that hill that's going in. But that's where it goes. I mean, I think I think I
I take above burlinies, and I've not been taken to fill them in, who has a house in the cold sector, I think, is there a Brian?
Part of that water goes behind his house and down. It doesn't go all the way down. First street, he goes around his house, and there's a drain either between his and the neighbors or between you and his, like, that's correct, and goes right down.
And then we did some work, putting some rip wrap in front there, because it was a water, and I'm talking about up at the top of the hill, the top of the first street.
the last house and the cul-de-sac the water goes the opposite way it goes down
along his house okay at least it'd be great if we could put it someplace or
there's no people yeah Wardette that's my house that's yeah the water splits
off and then it ends up going down on to my which has been doing that for 22
years has been doing that I've dealt with it how much acreage do you have it it's a
half okay so you don't know them at all no so I mean I haven't I haven't you know
I haven't contacted the town because it's run off from the hill.
I get it, so I've managed it, but like I said in the last couple of years now,
it's the volume of water and I get this rain was a bad rain,
but it's prior to this, something up there has changed the movement
of the water has changed, the volume that's coming down.
Like I said, prior to this rain.
There's a lot of water just washed a new channel, maybe.
Correct, it was going somewhere prior to this and it was much more manageable,
but like my loan, my loan's been wet for three years now.
It doesn't dry out because the water doesn't stop coming down
no matter how many trenches I dig.
But recently, the water coming through each of the homes,
that volume of water, as you well know,
I mean, it's going to flood out people,
it's going to flood the back of all those homes out,
like that in all those septics.
And that's really, that type of an issue
is really more than just water.
And now you have a real contamination issue,
which then you got to deal with that, so.
Well, thank you.
Thank you, water.
and that's really the problem.
Maureen, can I ask, where is the DEP installed wastewater system that you were describing?
It's under which streets?
Stormwater.
Isn't there a little fountain?
There's some place, too.
I saw some picture.
Wasn't there a little fountain someplace where the water used to come in?
There was a,
that, at one time, some of you had an old post on it,
where the water coming off of your bill actually came down through that part,
and at the corner of both the well and the road, it actually was grabby chewed up
and some of that fountain that had water in it.
In Germany, I'm like a friend when you do whatever, but in answer to your question, I don't
know where I start on those roads and that's one of the questions that I have to look
at the distance because if you're standing at no road and old school house, when you look
in the afternoon and there's two sets of pipes and the water's coming off of that,
I don't know if that's possible, maybe that's on to that kind of idea.
Is it possible?
Well, I don't think it's hundreds of thousands of dollars and you have to say someone, but I do think that in today's phase, things are a lot easier than, you know, sending somebody, you know, things of the kind or whatever.
You can send things there.
Oh, I'm just wondering if it's possible that that's still owned by, you know, the City of New York.
Yeah, unfortunately we haven't had any feedback on that.
Because you did it for us, the DEP archives is incredible.
If they built that, it's there in the archives.
Susie and I spent a day up there, and they pulled out all the plans.
Where is it when you say up there?
In the city.
They have, they have the record of everything they built.
So that would be a good starting point.
If they built it, they still have those plans.
If Cotswilds built it, it should be in the planning or building department, because they
We would have the construction drawings.
So, you know, digging up those documents would be a good start to hand over to an engineer.
Try to get an understanding of that system.
But she's right about Pinto.
I mean, Pinto put in a lot of the drainage when he owned a lot of land there.
And that'll see if we have any evidence of what he put in.
Well, the DEP look for you.
Can you say?
Yes, if I send them a request, we can go back and look the contact list that you put together and see if they're still there.
And all you have to do is pre list what you're looking for when you go down there, they'll have it all pulled if it exists if they actually did it.
Right.
Let's talk offline and put it requests together.
Thank you, Cynthia.
Okay.
I'm going to be checking off this meeting here.
Yeah.
I feel good tomorrow.
Everyone feels better.
Yeah.
Okay.
Alright, give Jenna a best.
Alright, take care everybody.
Thank you. Thank you. Take care. So it looks like probably some engineering money to figure some of this out. And then, I guess we can talk to Haan and get an idea of what they think the cost might be. And I assume we could even start this year if somebody wanted to. It doesn't matter. This is probably coming out of front balance whether it's this year or next year.
Anything else that before we move on to something else?
something else. Thank you all for coming in, Maureen. It's always nice to see you.
Thank you very much. Thank you, sir.
Thank you.
Thanks, Brian. Take care.
Thank you.
Have a good evening.
So I did, if I go back to number 1, 4, which starts on the intersection of Holy Post,
the Lost Pond Lane, I did talk to Gerald Charleston, who's the regional,
remember, it used to be Richard.
There was an engineer we met without you many years ago.
He was three, that was three engineers ago. So when I mentioned, I said Richard and Dylan,
was it Dylan? Anyway, yeah, so he said, oh my God, you're old. So I said, thank you.
But anyway, I did talk to him today, and this gets down on the intersection down there at June,
in the 1-21, not this particular one, but he said they've decided that they do need
to do something.
They're talking about putting lashing lights and stuff.
And not necessarily a four-way stop right now until they see how it goes.
Maybe even a light needs to go there.
And for they did anything like that, that would be three years out.
And I told them to please write what you're telling me up and they'll have it to me in a week
and you can look forward to look at it.
So, you know, I'm not sure exactly what we want to do, but I did suggest that a four-way
stop would work.
This is worked here.
At least we don't like putting stop signs on our routes here.
It happened to be on 116 already.
And I said, I understand that, but that's what would work for us.
So, I'm going to get the document from him, and then we can all take a look at it.
You know, what the next steps are.
I had a request from Marie, I think I sent them both to you in the e-mails, and I printed
them out for everybody, and they're sitting right on the copier work, so I do apologize,
but I'm going to look up the gentleman's name, so I have two people on post-road that have
sent me notes saying, I think they may have talked to Ward, so they did talk to Ward, of course
not here. The bank is on the way and you know where this is post road. You used to live on that
corner or you used to live up one. So when they come down they can't see and the cars are flying
down the road now. One of the problems with Hawley and I did talk to Gerald Charleston about this is
that it's taking a lot of computer traffic now that are going between 121 and 35. They're trying to
one in 35 and such. So, it's a lot of kinetic traffic. So, I told him we'd be discussing that.
Now, I have no problem with it, more than no problem with it. I don't think Tom had a problem with it.
I know when talking to you, you had some questions.
Well, I actually drove up there to take a look, close a look at it, okay?
And I think you'll correct that that that post road and loss pond are pretty much
obviously each other. I thought that there was a substantial difference, a mileage
difference between not, you know, foot, foot difference between where post road
enters on to Hawley and loss pond enters on to Hawley but it's it's not really
significant. Pretty much directly across from each other. So I mean I just think
that coming down the cars that are going westbound on Hawley and throwing a
stop sign down there may create some problems. It could be you know create more
difficulties and relative to safety issues that not having one at all. So that's just
my, you know, if somehow or another, and I never, I didn't really look at the landscape
on the post road where it meets Holly, if that could be cleared some, so you get a better view
on the west, when you come to Westbound, then that might be all of the quiet.
But I don't know, I don't know who owns the property there on the corner of Holly
and post-LOG.
So I think that, you know, if it could be cleared back some,
I think it would be work for both posts and all of these.
But I don't know what the property and, you know,
they have to be taken a better look at more that way.
So Mark Salisu, he sent me an email and I quoted to everybody
and I did print out a new apologize.
I did send it to you too.
But he has a private room and a second private room, having lived on our house, at our house on Post Road for 43 years, my wife and I are quite familiar with that intersection.
As the years passed, vehicular traffic on Holy Road and Post Road, especially on Holy, has increased substantially, very consequently.
The chances of accidents happening at this intersection would have proved or risen significantly.
on arriving at the intersection from post road and then attempting to make a love turn
on the Hawley Road toward Route 121 and not only is extreme course required, but sometimes
that's not enough. Visibility is compromised there because of the significant bank or curve
on Hawley Road, thus severely restricting the view of traffic on Hawley headed from Twin
Lakes Camp towards post road. Anyway, he goes on and I had another letter from another
individual also which I said everybody. Well that's why I'm a little concerned about
putting a stop sign at that intersection because because of the curve and
the you know way trot cars travel you know westbound on holly so you know
what no not that I'm aware of what. On holly. Well they're not going slow
So anyway, we put the speed machine, they slow down a little bit.
But if you want to talk, Kurt, if I could ask you to, I apologize, what do you do?
Okay.
But so I don't know, I mean, if you take a look at it, see who owns that property on that corner
there and if there's some way we could mitigate the danger by cutting back on it.
Can you talk into your mic so we can hear it?
I'm sorry.
If there's some way we could mitigate the danger by cutting back the growth that's
there, that probably could solve the problems without putting in a war-way stop sign.
But it would have to be taken a good look at, and again, we'd have to know who the land
owner was and if he was agreeable to, you know, cutting the brush down there so that you
has better visibility, looking from going from loss pond on to, going from post road
onto, onto hauling, which I think is the really the danger, I think the vision from loss
pond is fine because you're, it's pretty clear.
Well, they already have a stop sign.
Yes, it's clear and both, and it's clear and both the rest, it's easier to look up
Paulie when you're on lost part rather than on old post roads.
So the property on the corner is 307 post road, and from what I understand, Ward was looking
into clearing that brush to try and improve the line of sight, because that's really the
problem.
The line of sight looking up Paulie.
That's exactly what I'm saying.
But you told me that it's a bank there and that we don't own the bank.
Correct.
So we'd have to talk to the homeowner.
You don't have to own the bank under the code.
You have the right to clear the corners on a corner right.
So I mean, it's Basil's property, isn't it?
Yeah.
Isn't that vegetation that were the ones that's to clear the bank?
Vegetation.
Yeah, if you want to do more, if you want to cut.
We have to put the bank here.
The bank's higher than the call.
Yeah, then you just have to talk to Mr. Hoover.
That is that, you know, I think, in my opinion, okay, if that was able to be achieved, it would solve the issue.
Well, they're just looking at, they just want to see what's coming down.
That's what I'm saying. If we could achieve that, that would solve the issue.
Especially if, ultimately, I know it's not going to be quick, the state does something at the intersection of 120.
120 that well that's going to happen yeah I know but if they if they address
that problem then you're going to and if you put another stop sign just a few
hundred feet away right that's going to create all types of issues yeah yeah yeah you
know so I don't know maybe maybe I'll be happy to talk to Ward and see if there's
that, you know, if he could talk to the homeowner or
other. I know they have a lot of ways to take a
clear look at it. And then we'll talk to the homeowner.
Well, we may have to understand exactly where we
go into it. Right. Is there a road going up right there?
Is it the one?
The property has a road on the homeowner, right? The first
property on the corner, the roadway comes off a
holy road. The driveway comes off a holy road. No, the
drive comes off. The driveway, the property on the corner,
the energies is on post-strike. Okay.
I'll talk to the board about it and we'll go up there
together and take a look and report back to you guys. Sounds good. Okay. Yeah. There's another
way to do it. I think it was a rush and like a thermal else there. It's a burn. It would need to like
dig out and open it up a little bit. I'm happy to talk to you about this. You know, we can do
something that doesn't require putting in, you know,
four-way stops on.
Yeah.
I had a bunch of calls today to about,
or actually, the last three, four days.
Ever since Carol put it in the newspaper,
I've been getting phone calls about the intersection
and buses turn too slow with trucks coming south
or, I guess, west on 121.
And somebody's going to be in an accident
and it just goes, everybody's quite concerned.
But that's basically the same issue.
we have a lot of cars going, a lot of the cars are going straight up
Paulie and it's just your typical alongside problems there.
Yeah, so, okay, well look, if you can check that out with a
ward and then figure out if there's a word for us to get on the
guy's property and cut it back a little bit, that would be better
than having to put stuff signs in.
Do we want to talk about, yes, oh, I think we're waiting for
somebody out there.
Oh, have they been on for a while?
I'm sorry, you should have told me as soon as they get on.
Okay, but they left.
We didn't have to talk about that.
So you're going to open the public hearing?
Am I opening the public hearing?
I'm going to continue the public hearing.
Continue the public hearing to consider a local auto men
chapter 250 zoning of the code in the town of North
Sam landscaping and lighting.
And this is a continuation of something
that you've already published.
Does anybody want to see that, can talk to Maria?
Okay.
The last time I was here, we went over quite a bit.
I mean, all the little parts and pieces, we don't have an issue
with making some little fixes.
The main thrust of what we talked about was how to separate the major problems
that we're having with flood lights, whatever,
from everything else.
But I do want to, I always like to give a little history
and step back because what the planning board put together
and presented to you is in conformance
with your adopted comprehensive plan.
I mean, the plan was very specific about the goals
of this town to have a dark sky policy for,
not just for the commercial properties
that the planning board handles, all the non-residential.
We already do make sure that that's all in compliance with dark sky.
But the plan goes on to talk about public lighting and at the last minute I acknowledge
the great work that the town did in curtain falls and changing out all of those public
lights.
It made a huge difference and it's really good.
But the plan also said, you know, residents, the goals for all residential is to also be
dark sky compliant.
And as you all know, four of you participated and voted on that, two of you were on the
town board, the voted for that and two of you worked to write it.
And like most things that you write, not everyone understands the full impact of when
you go to put the legislation together, what does it actually mean?
And that's what we are now.
I mean, the planning board, when it drafted it, we do what we always do.
We go back and look at the comprehensive plan.
What was the directive? What are the goals of the town?
They're all spelled out there.
So we wrote something that was in conformance with that.
But it was very clear at the last meeting that, you know,
you probably do not want to do the full write-up right now.
So we've been mulling it over
and it is not easy to separate and pick and choose how
You
We would apply to some people or some instances and not to others. We had one full work session. We walked away still trying to figure out how we're going to approach this. And before we went into our meeting, our last meeting, I happened to be talking to the town planner. And he made a comment about, well, what if we just focused on the fronts of homes that face a road and exempt those for now, which leaves everything else would have to
follow. And it caught me is probably a really good approach to a nice compromise right here because
as you go through town and you look at all of the developed neighborhoods, everyone has,
if their front door faces the road, everyone has some kind of lighting there. And I think even when
Mr. LaRocco was here was talking about to replace those lights because a lot of them just shine out.
But those are a lot of the lights that he was talking about.
And so as you go through the neighborhoods, whether it's Peach Lake or Sunset or Hilltop,
you can all see the light that faces the road.
If that was not a really bright light, okay, it faces the road.
Why not just give a pass on all of those, but apply the law to everything else, which
is basically, you know, turn them down, focus them down, and then turn them off at certain
times of the day. So that's the approach that I was thinking might work, but I said, you
know, before we spend time and money putting in writing, I'd like to get some feedback
from you on that approach to consider exempting lights on front, front, porches, front doors,
is anything that faces the road and say for now we're not going to be fine. I think the
spotlight's are the things that we we have the problem. Right, so that's what we're saying.
So all those historical type structures that Steve was talking about, I'm happy with leaving
them there. I actually, you know, I have the lanterns. I went back to my house and I'm building
shades to put on them and I've tried different things. Right. It's very difficult to take an
Oh, light and make it dark, sky, and fire.
Right.
It's just not easy.
Right.
So you put up pictures of two of regist situations
in the course of these hearings.
And this exemption would still allow the building
spectre to deal with those kinds of situations, I believe.
Sorry.
I mean this exemption.
Yeah, but I don't think the ones that they weren't,
they weren't lights facing the road.
Well, we're talking about not lighting along your driveway, lighting, you know, your garage
is sending it down, the driveway.
If you look at the facade of a house and it faces the road, any kind of lighting at
the door, lighting on the walls of the house, which are usually your decorative ones with
the glass and you can see the boat to exempt those.
Yeah, no, no, I understand, you know, I think some of the examples were lighting along
driveways and the spotlights above the garage doors and things like that.
Those, we would regulate, but not the facade.
So, if you have spotlights and they're basically facing down like landscape light, I'm talking
about okay you know I don't you know I mean I understand if somebody's got
shining his spotlight on the next door neighbor's property okay or whatever
maybe I understand that they should be something about that but again as I
say if they're if they're if they're full cut off spotlights yeah of course I
mean I'm just thinking of my house okay I don't have anything that faces the road
quite frankly, but we do have a bunch of landscape lighting, not of which is pointed out.
Right.
The thing is pointed at, you know, whatever the landscape is right now.
Those are fine.
I mean, it was so long as you were to be dark sky compliant, you're full cut off, you're directing
them downward.
There's still flood lights or spotlights, but you're directing them down.
And then so if the if you have a flood or spot lights, I guess some folks I'm on their
homes like on the corner of the homes or like you said over the garages, if that spot
light is facing downward so that the area that's lit remains on their property even though
you might be able to see the source from the road, that's okay.
Well, if you move to the more current spotlights, they're not the globe like this.
They still have to be the ones where the light is underneath, but it can be a spotlight
so long as it's pointed downward.
So it's not the old-fashioned spotlight with a surround bulb and you see the source.
Now, I just think about my house.
I do have spotlights that are not facing downward, but they're facing the house.
Well, the way the code is written now, you have to, by definition, a full cut-off, it's
not going above the 90-degree angle.
Well, in these things, you know, houses, it's odd shape, but you know, it's, you know,
two turrets, you know, and we do have lights that shine directly at the house, they're not
not shining out at anybody else's property,
they're only shining on our house,
but they're not directed down,
they're directed at the house.
So they're not in compliance.
Is it the ground up?
It's like from the ground up, yes,
the ground that is on the ground,
and they're directly shining at the house.
So they're contributing to sky glow,
which is one of the goals is to not contribute to skyglow.
I'm a contrarian in the sky.
I've looked at your house on Google Maps.
Don't you start at the Google Maps.
I'm not trying to illuminate the world up.
But it's in our particular case okay,
the kind of essential fund, you know,
that we live with out there, yes but what's the point?
I mean, we're not perfecting anybody in the network.
I think we're making the poster not all my long.
Even if we said, you know, exterior lights can't be left on all night long.
Well, we do say that.
Yes.
11 p.m.
Sure.
I know, but I'm just saying that.
Again, I have another question.
Yeah, I know.
I think I made the comment earlier.
Okay.
Well, what do we have a summer time?
All right, and we're entertaining outside.
You come and get a permit for the.
Oh, yeah, I could see it all around here.
No, seriously, I mean, you know, this is like, well, I mean, there is a, you know, to the
extent that we don't have reasonableness with people working with their neighbors, I don't
think anyone's going to be unreasonable if your party goes to midnight.
I mean, we're trying to set a goal and a standard, give us some direction.
I mean if you don't like 11 is it midnight? I mean, but I think you're all in agreement. They shouldn't be on all night long
So I mean that is normally we leave our lights on
The little solar
Everybody here wants to have an hour that the lights can no longer, your regular, you know,
whatever spotlights have to be turned off, then I think maybe one o'clock at night might
be a reasonable request. I mean, we do have parties, you know, gatherings or something outside,
I will barbecue or something like that, where it does
some time to go beyond 12 o'clock, you know?
It's, we're getting, it's not gonna be manageable
by the building expected.
He needs to point, he needs to find the five or 10 people
that are driving their neighbors crazy.
And go up to them and say, the code doesn't allow you
to do that move the light to one point.
And you know, by one o'clock in the morning,
they've given up Peter, which is, I mean,
it's, you need something to help the general public.
And I don't think anyone's going to be going after the occasional party that someone is having
unless you've got a lot of noise.
That's going to be more annoying than the light.
And then at
midnight,
I think that would be a reasonable power to require, you know, these
things.
Tardom.
11 o'clock is still, you know, relatively early, in my opinion, it's a personal opinion, but,
you know, I don't know, midnight sounds to me, you know, more reasonable.
I said, yeah, I have a question for you.
So one of the criticisms that I had, right, was if we implemented this, then it was going
to make everyone in town spend money to change lights, to make it compliant.
So is there any way to deal with that, so that doesn't have to occur, so people don't have
to spend all the money?
Well, some people will have to spend money
if they've got spotlights and flood lights,
and if they have lights right on their neighbor's property
shining at their neighbor if they can't redirect it.
It can't avoid that.
But I think the compromise that we are suggesting
is at night, it's typical for every home
to have lighting by their front door.
And we're saying, we're not going to make a change
any of that. But if you've got other floodlights in the back, or other lights around your property
that are casting light, trespassing on your neighbors, we are suggesting that yes. You do something
about it. I mean, what right do people have to trespass on other people's property with something
that might impact them? No, I agree. I don't think there's, I don't disagree with that part.
So,
not everyone is going to have an expense, I don't know how to judge who will have to change out their lights or just turn them off if they're not needed.
And our building inspector is not going to be running around at 10 o'clock at night checking on people's lights.
It's a goal that yes, if you want to be completely compliant, you probably have to change out some of your lights.
At some point in time, because people are going to be complaining about it.
If they complain.
I mean, I called up the D, the MTA, right, and said, hey, you have a bunch of lights out.
They go, we didn't notice, because we check them at four o'clock in the afternoon.
That's what they told me.
He's going to have to go out at night, and part of the problem is, how do you make it so
that it's reasonable, not only for people, but for us to manage it.
I don't know how, nobody's going to be in compliance with this.
Well, tell me what part they're not going to be in compliance with, because we're looking
for direction from you. What is it that you can't?
I think you can spot light on the back of their house. It's going to be pointed down and
they're not going to turn it off.
But you can do anything. All that cost money. The average
person isn't going to go on the ladder or anything.
No, I mean, one of the things that I pointed out is everyone has to eventually change a light
bulb. You can change a light bulb to a motion detector. That's a big difference, rather
than having it on. If it's needed, it comes on.
Chris Brockler would like to say something.
Chris, if you'd like to, I see your answer is.
Yeah, thanks, Warren.
Hi, everyone.
Sorry, I can't be there tonight.
I mean, listen, maybe when we started digging
to this at our last planning board meeting
trying to address what we thought the concerns were
of the town board, I think it became quite obvious
that it's extremely difficult to legislate common sense
and being a good neighbor.
And what might be true for you, Peter,
because you don't have neighbors that are within 20 feet of you,
may not be true for another property,
and it's extremely difficult to have a one-size-fits-all program.
But that said, you know, back to Cynthia's comments earlier,
what we're trying to do, or being guided by your planning board,
is what the comprehensive plan already provides for,
which is to try to get our code to a point
where dark starts by compliance and we, you know, we are adopting the best practices that I think,
you know, the people who work in this world agree is the right direction to go in.
That said, you know, I think that the solution that Cynthia suggested that will address to,
you could pose maybe a good first step. And then we, you know, we sort of address this more
and incrementally, if we aren't in a position to adopt the full program that we had envisioned initially.
That's sort of what I was thinking too, an incremental approach to implementing this.
So certainly new construction could be, you know, I know, but we could phase it in in that way.
I'd like to compromise of leaving lighting on the street side and not worrying with that
unless it's causing a problem with the neighbors and focusing on the other light fixtures.
I mean, dark sky compliance is it's healthy for everyone.
It's consistent with our rural character.
It's something we've discussed a lot when we were putting together the comprehensive plan.
And it's, you know, I don't think it's even remotely
onerous.
It's going to, you know, leaving lights on all night.
What's the point?
Why?
It's security.
I'm just telling you.
I have a security role.
If it's security, if you have a legitimate reason
to have it on, then that's a little...
It's a little different, but is it really secure? There are lights on all night long because they're from New York City and they can't take it dark out. But is that reasonable? It is for them. My point isn't that. My point is, how are we going to manage this stuff because the building inspector is going to have to go to, he can't even, he can't even manage between the stormwater and the code enforcement and the zoning and all the other stuff he has to do with Fire Marshall. Well, that's really a different issue because we've been asking for a code enforcement officer for years.
It's that's a time thing, but I mean he did tell us that he has to go to sort of zoning
board of appeal meetings and it those the nights that he does check out the night issues.
He's gone and checked out some of the lighting problems after those meetings.
So he is around at night and he does do a little bit of that.
Is he here as a resident all the time?
No, but if there's a complaint, he'll figure out how to do it.
I wouldn't want to live in, you know, the building is spectacular, it doesn't want to live in town.
We're in use too, but that's hard.
So, let me ask you, so if what you're suggesting then is the regular normal lighting in front
that would be more historical type lighting, don't, I'm not even using the word historical.
The typical lighting by a front door, the bulb is exposed, the lighting comes out straight.
So that's not in compliance, but it's the front of the house, it's your door, it's a fixture,
it would cost money to replace it.
Just about everybody has a front door light.
Let those go for now.
What about maybe a lamppost,
like even the ones we have around the town hall
that are in the front?
No, the public lights should change.
You've known that for 12 years.
The public lights should go dark sky compliant.
You did croat and falls, it's fabulous.
And you knew you'd have to do town hall.
Like what about a private home?
So a light other than the one that's on the door,
are on the wall next. We are suggesting it become dark sky compliant. The pillar ones already
have an exception. If it's pillar on the road, those already have an exception.
Sure. Understand that. Yeah. Okay. So the only exception you're talking about is the lights
that are attached to the home next to the front door. But if that home had a lamppost like in
the front yard near the driveway that would not be compliant, that would have to be changed.
Okay.
Just wanted to make sure I understand.
I mean, we started talking about how do you separate one from the other?
How do you say, is it a matter of setback, is it a matter of zoning district, is it a matter
of type of lighting?
It gets very complicated to say which ones are of these.
There's a spot and it's facing it, your neighbors.
Those are easy, Warren, those are easy, but what if, what if these lights that he just described
is also shining right into it because it's right along the property line and shining into the
Navy's yard and he doesn't want it. You're going to say those are okay. How do you do that?
Well, since the other um so the what was the reason for the pillars at the end of the driveway
right? Because the exception that you rode in was a 25 watt bowl right? So what was the reason for that?
The reason I ask is because what say you have the lamp post? Could that become 25 watt
but then be an exception as well?
If that's the direction you want to give it to us,
if it's a very low loom in, make it an exception,
we can work with that.
Was that the reason why that was an exception for the pillars?
I think in the beginning when we talked about the ones in the pillars,
those are pretty expensive lights.
To change those out, it is a very costly thing to get them to be
dark sky compliant up and under, is it really making a difference considering where they are?
So it was a compromise.
It's absolutely.
Maybe if flights were 25 watt just to use as an example, those could be exempt regardless
of where they are on the property.
If that's the direction you want to give us, if it's low-loom in 25, equivalent of 25 watts,
That's easier to write in than starting to deal with where they are, what style they are,
whether you're 20 feet away from your neighbor, or you live in the middle of 100 acres.
Because with the higher lumens in dark sky, you're no longer respecting your comprehensive
plan.
Are we concerned with them?
For example, if they're off most of the time, does that need any of the requirements so
they're not, if they're 60 watts, but they're all holding the alarm until somebody walks
outside.
So they're motion detected?
Well, when you hit the switch, you walk outside, you hit the switch, come back in, not
necessarily motion detected.
Give us direction.
If that's what you want.
I know.
We'll write it.
But we are struggling with it because we're trying to achieve a goal that you set.
I mean really it seems simple to me all I know when you write these things it's
absolutely not and I I empathize and I appreciate what you guys are doing
every day but for me you know if you're gonna leave your lights on they can't
be above a certain angle they have shining down on your property not into your
neighbor's property and if you have other lights on that you know around your
house a low woman's it'd be fine but as long as they're not left out all the
time I'm fine with that too. But you say all around your property they could
be along your neighbor's property lines. And your neighbor I don't care. If you're
putting it if you want to put it at your own house and keep yourself awake that's
I think it's just one question.
I think I'm just going to get a second.
I think it would turn my life away.
The downlining on top of my house, it would be more impactful
against what I really have in the neighbors' house.
But if I did, it would be more impactful than having the lights
that I have which point directly at my house.
But they're not pointing away from, they're not pointing
I don't know if you can't see my life, but how would you, I see how would you have a raised
time?
Yeah, I've been sitting, Linda's listening to this and it sounds to me like we're trying
to create an ordinance that can't be enforced and if you can't be enforced, that's because
people don't want it.
And it's no secret.
Yeah.
Yeah, and I'm going to help help in one of the candidates on our campaign and probably
spoke to about 300 people to be honest and we discussed the things that are going
on in the town and this subject always comes up and the three words that I continuously
hear from people whether they're Republican or Democrat or what party it is that's onerous
over reach or ridiculous.
This is what we hear from the people in the town.
We're trying to give the people something that they don't want.
But, you know, we talk about shining a light in the summer's window, everybody agrees
you shouldn't do that.
But after that, people live up here because they want to be in a country and they want
to be left alone.
And they don't want onerous city rules coming down on top of them.
And that sounds like what we're trying to do here is make people do something that they
don't want to do.
It's like a governmental control.
And that's what a lot of people have got away from.
Well, with all due respect, we're in the middle of a public hearing, and we haven't heard
that from anybody, I keep asking you, do you have anybody to report for the public hearing?
Well, you have to acknowledge it and state it as part of the public hearing if there
are people opposed to it.
The only way we're going to know, and we're going to learn from it to try to rewrite this.
But I mean, to say it's going to be onerous, expensive, and there's hundreds of people
opposed to it, where were they when you put it into the comprehensive plan?
Yeah.
It was embraced and it was adopted.
The way you implement it can be a little overreaching.
It costs us difficult.
Nobody wants to write these regulations.
Nobody wants to write any kind of regulations.
But at the end of the day, we know that they're needed because the average person, whether
you're protecting the water we drink or the air that we breathe, things you do on your
property can impact your neighbors.
And not everyone realizes what those impacts are,
even when it comes to lighting.
Because I've had a lot of people say to me,
I can't call the building inspector.
I'm not going to say anything.
I'm too afraid to say anything.
But I don't like, you know, lights coming at me
or noises that I hear, or, you know, it's difficult.
It goes both ways.
There are people who don't like, it cuts both ways.
Absolutely.
I think we're trying to write something that you're comfortable with anything any interference from neighbors
so I want all my lights. I don't want my neighbors to have it. I want to make all the noise over my neighbors.
Look, I appreciate that aspect of it but my concern is just trying to
manage it from a building because nobody's going to comply or have the people are going to comply and then we're stuck with.
Well, if we if you're saying we don't have enforcement, then the town needs to do something about that.
No, no, no.
I think the other thing is because-
The other thing is because-
There's no sense that we keep on coming back to the city.
This is a stupid law.
Yeah, it's gotten to the point where we're giving the building
inspector way too much work that nobody's going to comply with.
And when we get to that point, it's ridiculous to try to-
The building department has had way too much work.
Look at all of the trees that have been coming down.
The wetlands that have been disturbed and he hasn't been on top of those.
Well, that was because he has too much work.
And he hasn't been getting out there.
And that's not a reason.
And he was there October to not have regulations. That's a different issue. The town boy is going to have to deal with
More just after we hear from the way she's this is not going to happen that way, okay
Give us direction is exactly what you want in times the spotlight shouldn't be facing the neighbor's property
It should be at an angle down. That's all I care about
I don't care about a lot of the other stuff we can put it in there as guidance
but there's no way the building spectre is going to go around the 2,000 homes and say,
okay, that's a 30 watt light bulb or the neighbors going to call out and say he has 325 watt
light bulbs or he has, I have 3 watt LED bulbs which equate to the lumens, it's not going
to happen, the guy is not going to do it and nobody is going to comply because my lights
are up 99% of the time.
I just, so I'm in violation of the ordinance.
Does it make any sense to start with guidance?
What do you mean guidance?
You just said it.
I've been saying the same thing since we started this.
And the first time I looked at it, I said, why is the lighting in there?
And Cynthia said, that's so you guys can cut it out.
Right?
That the Christmas stuff.
I'm sorry.
Oh, no.
You ask those are your words, right?
Excuse me.
The Christmas lights are still in there.
As an exception, we put in a time frame.
And you decided you didn't want a time frame.
And what my comment to you was we put everything in so that you can see the full breath of it and
You it's a lot easier for you to pull back rather than say I want more in I want to regulate more
It's there for you to consider
I completely agree my problem is 2000 homes are not going to comply and there's no way we're going to make them comply
It doesn't matter whether we get 50 code officers
So nobody on this board will be in this job in two or three or four years whatever if we go ahead and do
Something like that what what we're the problem we're trying to fix as a step one is you shouldn't look like
Stalk 13 with lights all around your property facing your neighbor's property and people do it in spite
Because I've been in the middle of these these neighbor conversations, you know, I'm not moving mine
I don't have to well, it'd be nice. I don't give a crap. I don't want to be nice. I want to shine it right there window
That's where these things start, and unfortunately it's a neighbor to neighbor problem and we just need an option to go up and say, hey, you got to drop it down.
And maybe there's a color scheme, it can't be 6,000 Kelvin or something along those lines.
But the lights that are on the driveways that go on and off occasionally, I don't have problems with that.
All right, so we'll write it that says specifically two types of lights, a flood light and a spotlight cannot shine on your neighbor, but any other kind of light can.
That's the direction you're giving us as a start that may make someone could have a 200 watt fixture.
Oh, now so now you also want us to everything else you want us to have a lower lumen on.
Tell us what you want us to.
I can't shine lights on your neighbor.
period. Well, then the light on your house is shooting at your neighbor. You can't just
sit. You can't. So whatever you have to do. The light is your front door. The light
and go straight out. It's going to your neighbor's property. Now you're saying you can't have
that. Oh, no. That's ridiculous. So tell me. I agree. But you just said you can't have
light shining at your neighbor. So tell me what kind of lights do you not want to go on
your name. We need hot lights and flood lights. We need to use common sense. Okay, what's
not what's not fighting over with not fight over the semantics. Right. We all know what we want.
Someone on this board, the last time we had a public hearing, said, you know, it's it's like when
the Supreme Court said, could not define pornography, but everybody knows what it is. Let's use common
in sense here, okay?
It's not get symmetrical because we all know what we want.
You guys, you know what we want.
No, excuse me.
I actually don't, because if, let me finish,
the lantern that you just talked about,
what if it was a 200 watt light bulb?
Is that acceptable?
What it is?
You can't shine it against your neighbor's property.
No, I have the post like a town hall, the lantern.
I happen to have it 10 feet from my neighbor's property line, and I choose to have 200 watt light bulbs in it. That's okay.
Is it shining and everything?
Yes, it's the light.
It's not okay.
Then you're saying you want a full cutoff light.
I'm sorry, but tell me how it's different if it's close to your neighbor and it's shining on their property.
We are trying to write something maybe you just can't do it
If you're gonna, Areal you, every little thing? Then we may the senate. No, I'm not arguing. I'm looking for direction If it is?
That's just éqilven of 50 watts or 60 watts. Was is it okay? It is going to connect it is going to the light is going to go out because of the type of fixture. Yeah, but if they lighte is low enough, is that okay? Keep its 60 watts a lower?
I think give us a number something that says spots and floods can't turn on your neighbor's
property.
Okay.
These are the guidance that we would give you for everything else and we may come back
and change the legislation because I want to do it for
what for changing things.
I don't know, let's say you put on someone's blood like you should do whatever you want
to come up.
Well, it was a bit...
Wait, wait a second.
Wait a minute.
Look at that or hand.
That's for a while now or 12.
And also, Tom Christopher online has a question as well.
So he should probably be next.
I'll have to move to make.
Well, I tend to agree with Mr. Galasano and Mr. Lucas.
These are onerous.
They're overbearing.
They're not going to be paid attention to by any of the residents.
And if you made us do this, we would have to spend money.
And Mr. Lucas even said at the last town board meeting, the town isn't in compliance.
We'll have to spend thousands of dollars to make it in compliance.
We may want to do that anyway, because I feel very sorry for the people down on our town hall.
But if I look at that, I'm very sorry for the people down on our town hall.
Okay, so I have a question.
What are you defining as dark sky?
Not dark sky compliant lighting.
But what is the planning board defining as dark sky?
When you say planning board, it's the, look, they're doing the job.
Or the town.
What is the town?
This is, we tried noise ordinances for years and everything came down to a reasonable person.
And it all fell apart because when you end up with these issues, the neighbors are not reasonable, right?
So we're at the same thing here. We're trying to solve a problem and it's a neighbor neighbor problem.
And I know I'm sure it goes both ways.
The reason I ask is there actually is a measurement for this, okay?
It's called the Bortle Scale.
Do we want to be completely dark?
Is that our goal?
Is that the goal of the town to be completely dark?
Because the Bortle Scale is the amount of light pollution in a town and it's usually used
by astronomers that want to look at stars.
And it goes from one to nine.
New York City is a nine, the most light.
We're a four.
I think that's pretty good.
You know, when you get off 6.84
and you drive down hardscrable, it is dark.
You have to put your brides on.
And when you get to that intersection
of June and hardscrable, you thank God
that there is actually a street lamp there
so you can see.
So the problem we're trying to solve
And the only reason we even started down this is because we have neighbors.
No, I understand that.
There are these lights for six, seven years asking us to please do something and we're going in circles.
So write a law very specific to that because also I have another question.
The schools.
So how are we ever going to be dark sky when the schools are lit up, both schools, PQ and the high school, complete?
And they have to be for security reasons.
And that's another thing.
Some residents want lights on for security reasons.
I have to tell you, when my husband's not home and I'm home at night by myself, I put the lights on.
Outside?
Yes, outside.
Doesn't necessarily make you safer.
Well, I feel safer and I think a lot of seniors would feel safer.
But this is overbearing and too much and you can't even understand most of it.
And the holiday lights should be out completely.
As Mr. Kamenstein said, it might actually be an infringement on First Amendment rights.
A completely excluded, not just reasonable?
They are excluded.
Then thank you.
That's why it's written in there.
They're excluded.
Well, there is written in there for a reasonable period of time.
It's not completely excluded.
If they were excluded, there would not even be a paragraph.
Or there would be one sentence.
Holiday lights are excluded, period.
What it's going to say.
Okay, thank you.
Holiday lights could be a lot of flood lights.
Don't agree with me.
Yeah, it's a question.
Tom.
Did you want to say something?
Oh, hi.
Yeah, well, I want to applaud your common sense.
Warren and Howard.
This is okay.
I'll let you go and then I'll talk.
I apologize.
Yeah, yeah.
I'll give you enough rope to hang.
It's so far down our list of problems, and I can just speak for Crote and Falls.
We're lucky to find that any kind of light bulb to replace a light that's gone out and
you put it in.
You don't look at the Kelvin's or the wattage, and we need lighting for security.
We need lighting for people going by and acknowledging a business, and everything is working fine.
And if something is annoying to a neighbor,
I mean, we had a show up in those trucks with some lights
and boat came by and he was really tired to hate Tom
to go, I get it, I get it, we'll turn the lights down.
So everybody gets along really well.
I mean, things are going so smoothly.
I think you're right.
Address the neighbor that, and I just
learned this phrase from you guys, weaponizing Christmas.
If somebody's really having a Santa ashing a neighbor,
go after him.
But I think everybody else, it's so far down a list of problems.
It doesn't warrant the attention of a board and plan review and news.
And I should back this work on this issue, Tom, because it's not a simple thing.
And I should have even raised my voice before and I do apologize.
But I keep on going back to the noise legislation we tried to do many years ago,
which was an abomination just to try to figure out because it all came down a reasonable list.
And those situations that I think I'm just trying to resolve right now with some legislation is very simple.
How do we stop? How do we give the building inspector enough clouds or you can go up to one or two homes and say,
you can't do this when something else comes up, you can go look and say, you can't do that.
And that's really what I was looking for. There's a bunch of value in the rest of it, but I don't think we can manage it. That's the problem.
So if we run as a supply to the business district, these lighting wheels that it doesn't really I mean, well, I don't think the business is subject to site plan review, which is dark sky could policy your stuff is already spent like that for years.
Yeah. All the lights down there are dark sky complaining. I think I showed some one or two pictures
in the past. I don't have it right. It's someplace on my machine. But literally the homes that
we've been asked to look at as examples of things that the neighbors did not want. It's pretty
horrific. I would not want to live next to them. Warren, I'm going to ask you for direction again.
What is a reasonable loom in for any light left on at night?
Because if we just say you can't shine a spotlight or a flood light at your neighbor
and they turn around and put up five or six lantern lights along their property line
with the equivalent of a hundred and fifty two hundred watt light bulb in it,
we haven't achieved anything.
with the reflector behind it.
So give us direction is to, if they come back
at their neighbor with an alternative,
that's not a flood or a spot.
But this is what we're just trying to figure out
how to get this to work.
Did you want to say something there?
I do.
I mean, I guess you can feel the frustration there.
the idea is that there's this directive to give the building inspector tools to be able to
resolve these kinds of conflicts. I mean, everybody sees how complex this is. Yeah,
if you just look at common sense and common decency, you'd think, yeah, don't be a jerk,
don't shine lights in people's windows. But as soon as you start trying to legislate,
the number of vectors and the degree of technicality with, you know,
You know, filaments, light sources, shading, angles, you know, which direction lights are facing is just way too complicated to normalize any kind of sets of regulations that make sense across all these different situations.
So perhaps there's a different set of tools that you can give to the building inspector to be able to help resolve these conflicts without creating a set of necessarily overly complex legislation.
Is there some other alternative?
Is there some way to give him some?
We need to have a rule that we need to have a law in town.
And I don't think Zany else can do other than having some zoning code of some type that, yeah.
So we need something and it shouldn't be this.
We shouldn't all have to disagree like this.
But I think we want something that will allow him to deal with the problems and not force everybody to comply.
You know, the problem was that he mentioned the easement the other day and he went over there and said he can't do this and of course the person blew up and said the neighbor is doing it and I'm going to do it also.
And so he slept the violation on him, but that's what's going to happen.
They're doing it. I'm doing it yell at them first and when you get a few hundred people doing that it becomes completely completely unmanageable.
And what I would love to do is give people guidance so that over a period of time they
can start looking at different light bulbs or even suggesting different things.
One of the things I do, if I have fixtures that have bulbs down and I did it at the annex
I place the light over there, I put a spotlight, a little, you know, one of these, a little
spotlight pointing down in a fixture that normally goes sideways just because it minimizes
the light and focus it basically where you're walking. So, you know, there are little things like that
that you can very easily do and it solves a lot of problems and it's not a big deal. But to come
down and say, you shall do this or you need to change a picture or for us to say it needs to be,
you know, what? I don't like very blue lights. I don't like very high kelvin lights.
You know, what's aluminum? Well, aluminum is dependent on how much ends up over there if I reflect
the three watt LED bulb in that direction so you know 100 to 360 degrees goes
that way it's obviously a much more intense than a 10 watt LED bulb right so
as I you start writing these things down specifically and it gets you find out
you know people are going okay well I can put a shade on here and put a mirror
behind it and still screw the guy next door I think that's not what we're trying to
to do figure out ways to get around the code.
I point to, there was a guy up in the former superintendent
of highways up in the town of southeast.
He was driving the town truck around all the time.
And didn't have any decal for a town of southeast
on it, so the town board said, you shall have a decal
on your truck at all times.
So where did he put it?
He stuck it right on top of the roof.
And then the next board meeting, they said,
that you shall have a decal on your truck
and it will be on your driver's side door.
And so where did he put it?
He put it on the inside of the driver's side door.
And the next time they said, OK, you have to have it,
and it has to be on the outside of the door.
Well, he put it on the outside door, and it was that big.
And by the fifth or sixth time, they kind of got it right.
And then he finally got rid of them.
But I mean, that's what happens when
you put some of these things together.
And that's what I'm afraid of, you know,
how many watts and how many lumens.
And I can get around all that stuff with a couple of mirrors
and, you know, LED efficiency things or whatever.
So I'm a little reluctant to go there.
You know, the light shouldn't be shining.
You shouldn't have these type of lights shining directly on people because they really focus the beam.
And maybe you shouldn't be using anything that focuses the beam of light onto your neighbor's property.
And yeah, you shouldn't be putting in 2000 watt, you know, mercury vapor lights pointing at your neighbor either.
But some place in there we need a certain amount of reasonableness
And something that's easy and not something that everybody isn't going to be in trouble with, I guess, that they're going to be a violation because if 90% of the people on a violation, nobody's going to fix it.
They're all going to say, you know, to hell with you, I'm not changing it.
Well, what if only 10 percent? I mean, I hear a lot of you know, guesswork being thrown out there when
What we're trying to do is to get you to help us
What you want to achieve? We know you want floodlights and spotlights to not shine on neighbors
We're suggesting that people make may have other things that may be equally offensive and maybe you can regulate them by
the amount of light.
You're not going to say you can't have your lights on at 1 o'clock in the morning,
but they shouldn't be over the equivalent of a 60 watt bulb.
Tell us if all you want to do is regulate two types of lights,
spotlights and floodlights pointed at someone,
or do you want to regulate lighting in general,
that could be cast more on your neighbor's property rather than your own,
or equally on your neighbor's property.
It's probably one or two things you can go besides just spotlights or lights with reflective
things that shine the light on neighbor's property.
I mean, you could probably go a little bit broader than that, but right now I need to get
that out so we can control a few problems that we have.
And maybe we come back in six months and say, okay, we really meant to do this and change
it just a little bit.
So that's all you want to say is that no light, no spotlights or floodlights can be directed at your neighbor's property
That's it. I think we got that that would be 90% of our problem and granted that the person sits there and takes you know tapered mirrors
And put them together in a nice 70-degree angle with a
Okay, they're playing with the rules in that point and we have to maybe address a little bit better
But I think the building is expected to go
So who's going to decide the equivalent, the building inspector? So how is he going to do that? I mean, you know, this is the, we're trying to help you be a little more specific. But I think what we have with the legislation is something that is not manageable by the town. And you can say we need a code enforcement officer, but I would not hire a code enforcement officer to go out and spend his entire day going from house to house to house to house.
and say, you know, this lighting isn't correct.
That's a waste of everybody's money.
And no one is suggesting that that happened.
I don't know anything about my paragraphs
from my house there, but over Peach Lake on the shore.
And looking at the guy on the other side
who has this spotlight shining out on the lake,
I just don't like it.
And it's shining at our, right?
So at some point in time, it becomes ridiculous.
Well, even our E911 numbers,
we don't have enforcement of those.
So, and that's even a more critical piece of legislation that should be enforced.
That one is hurt you've been okay I know I know I'm not trying to be nasty I just
isn't your issue more with houses that are close to each other no you're on
the biggest dates also what do you see make a profit like you're watching do
everything to tweak a lot for now.
Oh, that'll go over real well.
Yeah, I mean,
yeah, before we pass from Tom and Don,
did you guys complete your comments?
I think you're on mute.
Just want to make sure you said
everything you wanted to say.
Martin, I'm sorry.
I didn't catch it.
Just want to make sure that you completed your comments.
Of course, you offered some comments
and then the conversation went in a different direction.
Perfectly happy, it sounds like a real one
respects the need for lighting in the town
to both acknowledge business and for safety.
So it's, we're just concerned with the town.
We live in South Salem, so we don't have opinions
on anything else.
But just having lighting in front of the world,
And businesses helps, it's wonderful to have, I don't think it should be regulated,
there's so many other issues to deal with it, thank you guys are using great common
sense.
Yeah, so Warren, I mean, and look, I appreciate the work everybody's done, and I'm not frustrated
anybody, it's just, it seems that there should be a simple way doing this without causing
the town to go crazy trying to manage it.
We can't resolve, I mean, the idea was to try to, you know, regulate all possible manifestations of a problem.
And we can't resolve right now whether or not that's reasonable or not, whether we're going overboard or not.
So I think at this point there are people out there who are suffering specific problems.
And let's deal with that, you know, I think there's different ways to look at how you
legislate.
In this circumstance, I think we need to be mindful of what we're hearing and try to
direct something at the problem that we know this and offer the rest of these guidelines
as guidance, you know, for people that, you know, want to, you know, tailor activities appropriately.
But, you know, like I'd say let's cut to the chase here because we have people that are suffering
under terrible circumstances and we need finally to address those problems.
and or I'm the building inspector with something narrowly tailored to prevent those abuses.
Is that the case that's exactly what Warren suggested?
Yeah, no, I'm totally agreeable with that.
Well, there may be, you know, Rome's quickly suggested or equivalent, right?
So there's probably something fairly simple that we can do.
The rest is suggested at this point, this is what you should be doing.
And then we can always change it and make it stronger.
I don't, as I said, repeat myself again, but I don't see how the code enforcement officer's
going to deal with this.
He's not going to deal with this.
I mean, we may be, you know, returning to this subject more than once, sort of similar
to the policy guidelines we've written for three Owens Road, but there's nothing wrong
with that.
like we find out new things, we modify our policy to make it easier, we address a new issue,
and I think that's just what we're going to have to do here because I don't think we're going to
resolve the abstract argument about whether aspects of this are reasonable or not, but we know that
there are specific problems we need to deal with. So my suggestion is, and I think we're in violent
agreement here. Let's all deal with that. And as you suggest, put the rest forth as
precutory guidance. And then let's see what other problems manifest if any.
Is it going
to be part of the zone?
I don't know.
It's kind of going somewhere.
It's kind of going someplace.
That's the best place for us.
Could I just jump in first second?
I mean, obviously the planning board is going to do what we're directed to do by the town
board.
I think this situation has become blown maybe a bit of a portion and maybe a bit politicized.
But I will go back to basic point, which Cynthia made initially, and that is that as a planning
war, we don't sit around trying to figure out how to make everyone's life more difficult.
We look at the zoning, we look at the code, we look at the comprehensive plan, we see where
the code needs improvement to conform with the intent of the comprehensive plan and we go
from there.
So when you put this together that's what we did and dark sky compliance was a goal.
I guess what we're hearing is we don't want to do that right now.
Maybe we can look at it again some other time for future.
We'll look at the immediate problems that exist and solve them.
And I guess bring this up again in the future.
I will just say that because of the point of personal privilege.
I don't find that super satisfying because there's been a lot of time on this as a planning board.
but that's what we'll do. I mean we we are not the elected governing body here.
Yeah Chris I'm not trying to be a pain in the ass. I try not to do that but I
don't see how the town is going to manage it and I think that's the biggest
problem I have. I'd love to see the town. I'd love to see much more visible light
even though I know some people from security point of view although the lights
go on because they want to be more secure. I don't feel that way. I like no
lights, but we're trying to resolve a certain number of problems and I think what we're designing
here is something that while it may be a great goal and may match the master plan, the implementation
is going to be impossible. I really think it's going to be impossible.
I think that the net net is, I mean that we start out in a smaller way, which is to prohibit
you know, somebody from shining lights directly upon their neighbor's property,
at their neighbors, and get that rolling.
And then, you know, consider other things as after we've, you know,
established this one thing.
No, it's not eliminated.
It's not to eliminate the possibility of more comprehensive lighting plan.
but start with a small step and then, you know, take a look at it and go on, go to the next phase.
I think we got the message loud and clear. We'll put in the one sentence that the town attorney recommended and be done with it.
Everything else will come out.
And actually, you know, it's a one sentence.
That's it. One sentence.
First that.
And this is, I mean, I'm still in this picture that everybody would want
to order to see.
That's the house in the neighborhood and the whole thing lights all the way around.
That's the problem we're trying to solve.
I'm sorry?
And that's the board plan.
It was three others.
It was one.
Right.
Yeah.
No, just one.
I think we're all on the green.
It's not much.
We know what we're doing.
That's what we need to do.
So let's go on the next thing.
Okay.
And I thank you very much.
Again, I don't want to be a painter.
Yes, we can manage it up to B1.
Do you want to talk about AEDs?
Sure, can we need to close the conversation?
Do I adjourn it?
What do I get with adjourn?
So I'm going to adjourn the public hearing.
And we'll go on with the rest of the work session.
And thank you very much.
I appreciate all the work.
I just, like we got to set it up a couple of times.
AEDs is town parks.
come up here. Let me just get the discussion started. So A.D.'s in town parks is a good
idea and law cabinets. I asked Kurt to come up so he could explain it. But basically
if we do this, like the school is done at the New Turf field, then we are really in a position
to save lives because when someone drops from cardiac arrest, there's a gap in time
between the time that the fire or the back gets there or the police, and that person
is dependent on bystanders. And bystanders CPR is what saves people along with the use of
an AED. So we're making it possible to cover that gap in time if we do this.
Kirk, could you explain what these are?
Yeah, so at the school of the New Turfield,
we put in a AED in a box.
It's a climate controlled box.
And, bye.
I was wondering how that was going to work now.
I know it's climate.
Right, so it took up to electricity to the box.
So what happens is, when someone calls 911,
and you get the Wesschister 911 Center, either TMC,
County Police, or 60 Control, they will give you
a code to unlock the box. This way nobody can steal the AED. And then once they give you
that code, the box is unlocked. And then once you open it up, it starts telling you the
instructions on how to use it.
I think we
I'd circulated some information about this and you know we didn't really yeah, yeah, but we
You would put one of one volunteers and we're actually looking to put a second one of them by the track
eventually
But right now we have one at the turf field and
We put a sign next to it. Obviously call 911
And they will give you a code and gives the address that you're located at.
The sign next to it will have the AED is in that box, which is, we've got from a company,
I should have made with the company, but Fitzgerald was that I would purchase it from.
What is the cost?
Yeah, I forget the exact cost of the whole thing.
Sorry.
I don't remember the cost of it all.
But with all these.
Why find the area that's.
Nope.
No, why find needed.
What does it say?
No, they don't. So what happens is when you call, they give you a code to open the box.
Well the bystander will need a Wi-Fi in order to be able to dial up a cell service, whatever.
And then you tell them the location you're at and they'll know which code to give you to unlock that box.
When the school did this, did you have a list of vendors that you went to or was it a cell source?
Well, we stuck with the same vendor that the fire department uses and the ambulance
for uses in the town police use, so this way the pads can plug into any machine that
the town emergency services have.
It can be a smart approach.
Right.
So this way when emergency services get started there's an issue with the machine.
So it's working after two shots or something, we can just take guards, hook it to it, and
continue.
So the recommendation is for J.B. and volunteers, those are the two spots.
Spot so far.
Right.
Where would 518 be in one box for each location?
Is this school covering a pretty spieled?
We don't use a pretty spieled anymore.
You know?
No.
Like, it's a while since my kids were, um, um, some-
obviously involved with this now and you can deal with Kurt and get a surprise.
Okay, I don't think anybody here is going to object to having an AED at each one of those facilities.
So it's not even a matter of discussion.
Do you want to talk about how they need to be made?
Yeah, so the school ones you have to have a person just check it once a week
and the payers need to be checked every year or two years to expire.
What do you have to check in once a week?
Why?
To measure the batteries.
Correct.
Make sure they're not plugged in or in.
Nope.
They don't have to.
They're not like a little solar type battery.
No.
Do that.
Kurt, I'll talk to you offline.
Okay.
Maybe we can get the vendor to come here and answer questions directly at the board.
Okay.
No problem.
Thank you, sir.
Thanks.
Certainly. I don't think anybody would object to this quite frankly. No. You say lives, you know, at a, you know, that was small court.
Yeah, exactly. All right, now I'm going to jump to an easy one, sensitive, word, or district public pass route. Before you leave, the department health said, hey, your soffins, right? And you need to replace the soffins. I asked her if you could send somebody over there, which they did today.
And he called me up and they got there and they said, well, the soffit's right, the revs
are right, the group is right, and it's all wet under there, and I'm not sure if the
water's going through or coming from the inside, because you have a pretty high humidity.
So, we have a little bit of that.
The
way on smaller things, I took away S-curve to do some of the work, and obviously it goes
out of the young wage.
This is going to potentially get to the point where you put it up to 708,000, so I have
I don't know if you guys told you anything of it but I just stayed in the pit.
No, I just left it open. I mean, if you want to go tomorrow and just close it up, right.
If you want to put some tarps over tomorrow, this way no animals get inside but I left it open.
I didn't know what you guys were doing tonight.
All right.
Yeah, well, I just, just name up today, so I don't know if I don't have any prices or
anything other but preferable.
Yeah.
And so originally it was going to be a nice piece of stuff, but I told him, don't bother
put the stuff on.
We have problems with my usual.
Fix the problem first.
No, we need to talk.
Well, the tarp is, yeah, we've got to get a thing around tarp, or something like that.
Yeah, I'll put some tarp.
Yeah, I hope the tarp's on it.
It's going to be more.
I don't want to see blue or orange, or silver, or orange, and yellow.
So I don't know how bad it is on the inside.
I know what the inside is.
The rod goes in on some pieces, almost two feet.
Some of the referee joys have to be replaced.
time. Well, whatever.
Before we just do the whamms. Sure.
You already talked about that, right? We did. Okay. Well, so I talked to Ellen. I talked to
that person and she wasn't too happy with anything. Any of them. I talked to Rob Scorano the other day and
And I talked to them and they said, I have a car.
It's something they would go for.
I talked to a couple of times and I think he's one of the half a car.
Kevin I know this is a good car.
When I say half a car, starting to 30, it's a plus and plus.
For us it would be 22,000, I think it's a plus and 30,000 additional over our normal Wednesday piece.
And the only one that says, so I talked to Alton, he's going to come here on the 20th, and said, I don't think we need you, but we know our options.
But you have to make sure everybody agrees on the same option, so that you actually have, you know, everybody's saying, yes, we want to do 30th start date on the flood card.
So, with my own example, you said I'd like everybody to agree, everybody to be an affirmative.
I don't want to have the towns, but it's a pervert out of the money.
I don't want Bedford saying now, and then I'll keep saying yes, and I don't know how he's going to get to that.
But I did talk to all the supervisors, Bob, but I have not talked to Lisa Katz.
She's everybody or Mike, I'm sure of what she'll later on down in that discussion.
When you say they want half, they don't know what has it made their agenda.
Well, he was pretty much okay with it at the meeting.
It was like there.
Yeah, and so was what's her thing?
I don't think Lisa.
Not Lisa.
Who's the other lady from Newcastle?
It was your town man.
Yeah.
I think that's about it.
I can talk, I mean, I know the law, you know, when I look at that, but he needs to know by the
October 25th, he hasn't been on October 25th.
Okay, but when we're talking about half, we're talking about the purchase of a fly car
and half a person.
Half a...
What about the purchase of a fly car and June?
Oh, half the year.
Half the year.
Okay.
The way it hits a fly car is appreciate it.
Gotcha.
It hits us over a number of years, and it hits us out.
I like that approach.
and that the target is to have that run 12 hours a day, I think 7 to 7 like that, by the time they don't need it, they don't need it, the more hours of 10 to about 2 hours in the break of the day.
So I think that's kind of where we're going. I've talked to him a bit, he said, look, I've threw it out there, if nobody wants it, okay, we struggle on the way we're going.
but I had to, it's what we need, so I have to propose it.
Okay.
And I think Kurt was the one that, just we're going to no place
with the full car.
And then you suggested you go with the starting to 30-up,
but it jumped to that real fast.
Easy way of breaking up the fund.
The Kurt Golden half-car solution.
Yeah.
Half-man.
Yeah,
I don't know if there's any way for us,
the other solution is to,
They don't have the fly car only so open they're needed, but I don't have to do that.
Well, that's what they do.
They show all the time.
Not all the time.
Well.
There's a method that 60 control users to weed out some of the calls.
Not every department uses it.
We use it.
I'm going to get one more thing.
What?
To bring up the changes to noise or not.
What?
Noise.
Why don't you put it up?
I said I know that.
I'd like to see a change in the network, so he wants us to change the law.
The noise ordinance, great law, accepts, it says in there that you cannot make noise
on federal holidays, which Columbus Day is one of them, Veterans Day, Labor Day for the
July, which is, I think it needs to be a separation of certain holidays to make noise.
Yesterday, a lot of people worked along this day and you had somebody call up and the cops
came over and gave you, did you like us to change the law?
Well, I think it's fair to most contractors that work in this town that certain holidays
you should be able to work.
I think there's a few holidays that we should weed out to allow people to work.
So we started all of a look, okay, come on with a list and I promise they may even be reasonable and I don't, you know, you have Martin Luther King day, veterans day.
Well, just come up with a list.
No problem.
President's day.
Maybe the short list would be the ones that you think we should still as probably a short list.
I'm looking. Is there anybody else in town that agrees with you?
I'll try.
Yeah, okay.
We'll pick this up for another date.
That's fine.
He said he came in and asked.
He called me earlier.
I said I know that.
No, sorry.
Okay.
Thanks.
Thank you.
Thank you very much.
No.
Okay.
.
And she told us to insurance and our insurance person and he said if it's a ten-month
And there's 50 or you know around that you don't have hundreds of people
He says it's not for sale
You know it's a part of an event like part one or someone that you can't picture
It's a third party and you're selling it and all those types of things you can't
It's the third party or you're selling it.
Yeah.
I was talking about any town facility.
Yes.
So that's contrary to what the town code says.
Yes.
Right.
But when you say the town code, the town code does not allow for the consumption of alcohol
Yes.
It's always brought up.
I don't know if it's a board.
So has that just become a waiver?
I don't know.
Doesn't it say in there?
Unless the town board waits.
That's in the policy.
That's in the way of getting it.
In the law?
Yeah.
Because the policy also was written the same way.
Right.
It can only be...
It can't be consumed unless the...
I don't know.
It may be a violation of that.
I mean it would go on and do something about art in law.
It can't be consumed unless the...
It's a...
Oh, that's right. Yeah, you know, we're running one of those, but we get a policy and we don't need, so anyway, we don't need, we don't need a separate policy.
And the law was rather adamant to check with our gender.
And that's it.
So we can, I guess, if we want to wave it, I'll take it over to the moral.
one thing that we should consider is, I mean, I understand that there are establishments
that are willing to donate the wine. I just don't want to get them in the jackpot.
What?
Donate what?
One, for, you know, like, for the-
For an event.
Yeah, for an event.
I don't want to get them in, I don't want them to inadvertently get in trouble if by doing
that gratuitously, you know, pro bono, they would have to also supply us proof of insurance.
No, no, they have to.
They have to have service.
Doesn't matter.
I don't think it matters.
Well, I don't know anybody told me there was one.
I don't think that's what we're working on.
So, I saw somewhere in the emails that I wasn't about this.
So, I saw somewhere in the emails that, you know, the possibility of reaching out to
I wouldn't do that, just to avoid how many.
I didn't write that and it was something I forwarded below
that somebody else in Sydney I built the numbers.
Yeah, okay.
Yeah, that's fine.
Yeah.
This would be part of it as a like an event or a class type of thing
and that would be it.
Okay.
And I think art and simply paint and sit.
Please.
For example, I was used inside of the book.
Yeah.
Yeah, another example, but I think it was the event that that climate smart is going to be yeah on November 2nd. That was another one. Yeah, yeah.
I can't hear it, of course, I think the east can go up to the east side of it.
So section 30-5.
That's right.
That's the same wave.
It says that, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
So it's the foregoing prohibition against drinking alcohol.
It beverages in public places are possessing.
with the intend to consume open unsealed, resealed, blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah.
It can be at an event sponsored by a local fire department recognized civic
organization, a recognized church organization, Ornabent, which has been granted a
permit by resolution of the town board and town board. It's a authorized official.
It doesn't specifically say from what you read, that the town conducting its own event.
Well, it does.
I just made a little...
The required account for that.
Yeah.
Right.
The little data is out.
Uh-oh.
Yep.
November 2nd.
That's a smart address.
Smart, cute and cool.
Right.
So we got to abide by the restrictions that RJ gave us.
And we need to pass a resolution.
Okay.
paying that consumption at that event.
And it has to be a ton of it.
A ton of it.
Less than 50 people.
And I think, quite frankly, you do with this side here,
the library, you serve, somebody serves in the last,
you don't think the problem.
Correct.
So I think that's where I want to put it to the bottom,
where we can see it.
Yeah, well, yeah.
OK.
But I think it's the next meeting that they wanted to do that.
It was just a rather open solution, right?
that maybe we can talk to the role of the U.S.
for your opinion, and talk to the U.S.
Can you have a little bit of fun
so you don't have to wait a holiday concert at the head?
Yeah, this should be quick.
We agreed to fund the contract to the $2,000,000.
The Hammond has limited capacity, so I think it's 150.
So they kind of need to know how many are coming,
and the way we didn't put a limit on the,
And like our contribution was contingent on North Salem
residents being a low time for free.
And they're invited guests.
I think we need to put a limit on the potential
invited guests, just so that the ham and we'll
have an idea about how many people are coming.
And I think we need to, I would suggest four.
And I think we need to.
What's the guess, don't they live in the town?
Well, it's holiday time and you know, it's a holiday concert and the idea is that...
How many did we have to go to the last time?
I'm not sure, I mean overall there was 125 people there, some like that.
I know a lot of people went, so the question is do we...
Controls in place, do we just say go and we won't exceed the number right now? We'll ask them to do some record keeping. But when we passed this, it was, you know, because it was the holiday time, we expected holiday visitors. It was North Seattle residents and they're invited guests. And what I'm suggesting is we put a limit on the invited guests. Well, I mean, in total or out of what each resident can bring, like each resident
and bring two inviting guests.
For instance, yeah.
I don't know what numbers are going after, so.
Yeah, so if somebody can tell me, because originally,
I think it was, we could have a maximum of 50 people.
I'm sure it's different now, but whatever the maximum number is,
we should allow everybody to bring guests
and just cut it off when we hit the number.
OK.
But how do you, I mean, they don't pre-register.
Well, I'm suggesting that we also,
So they can do it through community pass or something like that.
Or they can do their own, but I think that so that they can control the crowd.
I think that we need to make our funding contingent on people registering day and
And if you have a couple and you're bringing in a couple,
those are your plus points.
Okay.
And if you have a couple or a steam town clerk has come up
with a solving like solution.
Plus one.
All right.
So one for each resident and registered like 24 hours
in advance.
That's fine.
We'll set something up.
or maybe on community pass or how do you even register?
Lauren has been in contact with the ham
and they'll work out how they do that.
Okay.
That's perfect.
Do we need the resolution or do you have a consensus
that you have good no more resolution?
Okay.
Do you want the EV charging?
Did
it tell?
I'm sorry.
Okay.
That's the last one.
No, it's, we have one more EV charging stations
as accessory uses.
Yeah, EV charging.
That's the last one.
Where did this come from?
No, it's been on our list of things to consider because one of our commercial uses in town
actually wanted to put an EV charging station and Roland pointed out to us that we don't
have anything in our code yet to address it so we want to put something in our code.
And there's actually four, I think it's four parts to this.
First of all, an individual homeowner, obviously if they have an all electric car, they're
putting an EV charging station, not a station, they're putting the EV charger at their home
so they can charge their own cars.
That's an accessory use as of right.
We want to make that clear in the code without question that's your accessory use by right.
But we also want to put a little condition there saying that's the accessory use for you at your home
Not to be used as a commercial
Venture to allow anyone else to come and use your charging station for profit
So it'll just be put in the code
As knowledge is an accessory use by right the
The commercial property that was in front of us, we also are thinking that why not let
each commercial property, non-residential property, have one or two charging stations
as an accessory use by right, and we put some conditions to go with it.
What we're separating this from is-
Are we differentiating to level one, level two?
No, well, I don't want to get into that yet, but let me just finish the overall concept.
up. Separating that from allowing EV charging stations as a stand alone use. That is something
that I think you all should think about. Obviously, you're doing it on town property. You're
putting them in the, on the city property, the least property you have for the parking
thing. Clearly, that is something that you all want to do. But going forward to the future,
Is it something that you want in the code maybe for existing motor vehicle service stations or for any other kind of commercial venture we are just starting to talk about and think about it the implications of it but at some point we need direction from you if you want anybody else to make money on EV charging stations.
as a permitted use, or just leave it for the town to have it on their own property.
Then long-term, what the planning board is also thinking about and trying to figure out is at what point do we let commercial properties put in EV charging stations beyond one or two accessory.
At some point, we're going to get to a point where they're going to say, well, we need
three or four or ten parking spaces, well, because all of the parking spots are calculated
as required under the code.
So they have to figure out, as a business, how many, do you put the EV charging stations
in as extra, are they replacing one of the required parking spaces to service the property?
Because all commercial properties must provide for parking on their site.
So we're trying to figure that out going forward how we would build that.
That doesn't, in my opinion, that doesn't require zoning code.
It's going to be more of a site plan.
Well, right now we have a restaurant, office use, we have some businesses on fields lane.
Well, it could be, and I think that's a very reasonable one for an employer to think about whether they need it for their employees.
And so we thought as an initial step, why not permit as an accessory use one or two parking spaces that could be
the EV charging stations, meaning they don't have to go through any kind of
permitting process.
It is built in as a recognized accessory use.
But at some point, it's going to impact the number of parking spaces that they're required to have to make sure they're not parking off-site.
We've now given up two spots,
or I can't help here with parts where you pull in, you know what to call, you plug in, you don't want to call, you don't plug in.
So, you know, at some point in time, hopefully people start using the thing, but I don't know
if you care if they're your employees or something, I don't know if you care if they don't
cost that much money to level two.
Right.
The level ones that completely have been stored.
Well, but what's the future out there is that someone may start using it as a use to make
money.
So that you have to think about, you want to put that in your code, and what type of zoning
districts do you want to have it in?
Do you want to have a stand alone as part of a business, whatever?
What we're going to deal with at the planning level is if they say to us, okay, by your code we have to have 50 parking spaces.
We think it's prudent that 5% of or 10% of them be EV charging stations.
That's in part that's a business decision for the applicant.
But from our perspective is we don't want them to be empty and
And now people who need to park because it says you're supposed to have 50 parking spaces for
that business and now they don't have a place to park and they're parking on the street.
So it's something we have to learn more about and understand what the dynamics are and what the needs are.
But in the meantime, we would like to write legislation to make it clear that very small scale,
a couple as an accessory uses, we shouldn't have a problem with that.
And I wanted to get a feel from you to go ahead and do that.
And please be thinking about what you're envisioning for
the futures, whether or not you want to have as a stand alone use for
existing businesses or new business or put it in a zoning code.
That's something you should give us direction on.
I mean, it could always be optional for whoever the business owner is or
or whatever it is to say, you know,
this is only for people who want to charge their car.
This is the space.
Or if they don't park your last, you know, I mean,
basically, I mean, that it could be
to be a parking space.
If they don't, you know, have a bunch of EV customers
coming in, you know, they could still utilize it for parking.
Well, that's something that probably the signage
would have to direct because I think if most of the signs say no parking except for
EV charging.
Right.
But from our perspective, we want to make sure that the site has the proper amount of
parking spaces that all their customers are parked on site.
So that's the balancing thing.
We have to figure out.
You have them in the meat.
Yeah.
So one unit can really be used in any one of four spots.
and I was thinking about this a group full,
so it's easy enough for us to pay for four,
but we're giving up with the $850 times four,
and 100 times four, right?
It's a lot, you know, we're not gonna make money
if we break even or make a little money
on the electric charge of that pedal yet,
but we're giving up money.
And so...
Well, maybe not if somebody wants to commit
or want one of the EV drivers wants to commit to it.
Yeah.
But you're visioning that more is a business.
You're serving the businesses of curtain falls and the residents of curtain falls with those parking spaces.
You're giving up commuter parking lot spaces, but to serve a broader public.
But I assume that if they're not plugged,
in, they're going to get a ticket because they're just trying to get away with using a space.
I mean, I have to be plugged in.
But part of it, we make,
they do a wide plane, they try to kill these pass rate plus
the left-trick.
Yeah.
Yeah, we're all exploring it.
At that point, the gas station should be allowed to do it, and have
what a facility.
And you're, I simply, at this point, you're not going to distinguish between level two and
level three charging.
We are writing it with, there is some commentary about the different level.
I just don't recall it off the top of my head, but I just wanted to make sure that the general concept of what we're doing is fine with you and I don't add.
Do you remember the level two and level three?
I don't off the top of my head.
Level 3 is your charge.
I'm going to work in certain spots.
Right.
Do you want to take a look at this?
For the assess reuse is personally,
I didn't think that we should make a distinction.
It's really a business decision on the,
I mean, if you, if your home want to put in by his level.
No, I was just thinking, you know, your business,
but the best place for those would be
along the, at the gas stations,
near the gas stations, long, high.
So that might be the first place
where in the code you might want to say
that is a permitted use where, you know,
of they can put in eight or 10.
So that's the other thing that we're working on,
and we'll continue to do the SSV use part.
Thank you.
Just, could I have a general question about communication?
Can you read it?
It's a lengthy comment.
Now, since they asked the question, you just asked.
I'm sorry, so you just did something about the Hammond and the Free Tickets for the Concert whatever, but I had, I saw on Facebook that Warren put something up about Free Tickets and School House Theater, and it brought up a question to me about communication and how is the best way for the town to communicate to the residents when an opportunity like that comes up, and it's first come first serve.
How do you broadcast it best to not everybody does email, not everybody does Facebook, what
you used to do in newsletter, you're here to town board meeting, you could have announced
it tonight.
But just in general, I hope you start thinking more about communication.
I'm working with the CAC, they're trying to write some communication about know before
you cut, know before you trees, you know, these are all laws, this is what you have to follow.
So they're, they're working on drafting some wonderful pieces of communication.
But what is the best way to get communication out there quickly?
Should we reintroduce the newsletter?
Should we make sure that we announce things at town board meetings?
Yeah, but I understand that's a, you know, that's a recreation is loaded with a lot of recreation stuff.
But I'm also talking about, you know, we talked about the building inspector and how do you enforce?
Well, the best way to enforce is to communicate first, you know, know before you have a problem,
before you cut that tree down, check with the building inspector, before you dig in your wetlands,
or before you do whatever, call in a plumber, maybe you need a plumbing permit or...
So, it doesn't have to be a long extensive newsletter, but I think you need to try to cover all your bases. Do Facebook, do email, and do it in print because I find that people are just opting out of, I'm not doing Facebook anymore. I never opened my emails until the weekend. It's hard. It's hard. So, we have to try to figure out the best way, and you've got a website, put it up on the website. That's all.
It was just communication, I think, is hard.
And they had suggested that a department had sent in an article from their department
things helpful information.
So, that's it.
Well, let's talk offline because Lauren is cranking out.
I mean, Lauren and Lauren, I had a lengthy conversation.
She has a whole strategy.
She's cranking out a lot of newsletters.
Having everyone in one place, I think.
that's what bogs everything down but maybe I don't know let's talk about it's a
good point it's cool let's have a little fun conversation yeah do you
want
me to read this thing to you well was it during the public yeah it was directed
Yeah, it needs to be read into the record. It should have been done. I didn't even
notice. I just noticed there was a read. It is. I don't know. I just saw you. Well, you could
reserve it until you reopen. Okay. I don't have it on one sheet because it over there. I don't know.
How are we going to lose it? You open and it just read it so I can. Yeah. Okay. It's on the
recording, and I can put it in as a comment.
Sure.
Gil Sandberg, to everyone, it was 9.33 pm.
Suggestions.
Require motion to detectors and dust to do sensors
on exterior security lighting.
Provide a means for submitting lighting nuisance complaints
to the building inspector.
Consider a tax-related incentive to bringing exterior lighting
into dark sky compliance.
Also, do not underestimate the effect of codified rules
and producing voluntary compliance, enforcement is usually an issue only at the extremes with or without a code.