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Good evening, chair members of council. Members in the gallery.

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Have an echo on my computer. Chair whenever you're ready.

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Thank you, clerk Power. We'd like to call the committee

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the whole to order, please.

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Perfect. Thank you. So. Thank you. Chair. Before we begin,

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are there any announcements? Announcements. Yes, Councilor Pascalino.

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Mike. Yes, absolutely. I will be having my award meeting.

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On June 26 at 07:00 p.m. At the kinsman center

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on james street. And I also will be discussing on

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topic. Will be the parquet decision this evening, whatever way

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that goes. And also the decision on some homelessness and

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whatever people bring up. So thank you very much. And

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hopefully we can all attend. Further. Now, further announcements. Councilor

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Chun. Thank you, chair. I wanted to recognize councilor, our

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counselor. Sorry, Elder John Ganiel, who did the opening ceremony.

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At the marina for Indigenous People's day, which it was

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attended very well, and there was a lot of activities

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during the day. He just did such a great job

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opening up and really made us feel welcome and included.

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And it was amazing. Second thing, I also want to

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say thank you to everyone who's organized a pride event.

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During the month. It was spectacular array of events from

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dance off, singings, marches. I held my own event. It

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was very well attended, and kudos to all of the

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organizers and people who attended. Thank you chair. Thank you.

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Mayor Boschkov. Indeed, I do have an announcement. And members

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of council, administration and public. After more than 40 years

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in the public service. Norm Gale is retiring tonight. Is

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his final meeting of council. He is now the longest

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serving city manager for the city of Thunder Bay, serving

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almost nine years. Prior to that posting, he held many

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positions with the superior North Ems. Including paramedic for twelve

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years. Manager of quality assurance and training for four years.

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And ending as the chief from 2007 until 2015. Norm

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was also a member of the Canadian Armed Forces for

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23 years. During his tenure with the city, Norm held

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positions on the Thunder Bay Board of Health, the Ontario

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association of Paramedic Chiefs, the Emergency measures Steering Committee and

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the Thunder Bay United way. He was also a contract

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professor at Confederation College. In their paramedic program. As city

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manager, Norm has provided guidance and advice. To three main,

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please try again. That's a very interesting technical glitch.

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Did someone in telecommunications? No. Okay. Let's go back and

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just make sure that we understand the seriousness and appropriateness

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and dignity of this event. Norm has provided guidance and

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advice to three mayors and 25 counselors. He has led

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his administrative team through nine annual budgets, several emergency weather

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events and. The Covid-19 pandemic. He is looking to forward

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to his retirement very much looking forward to spending more

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time with his family. His wife Michelle, daughter Aaron and

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son Devon. In addition to staying actively engaged in the

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community and no doubt catching up on his reading. Thank

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you, Norm, for your service and commitment to our city

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over the past three terms of council. As well as

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our community as a whole. Congratulations and best wishes on

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your retirement.

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On behalf of city council, we would like to present

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you with this gift. A token of appreciation. For your

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years of service.

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Thank you, mayor, for those kind words and presentation on

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behalf of council. And thank you, Norm. Our city manager,

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Gail. Thank you. I'm quite happy with Norm. I've always

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preferred that. Mayor Boschkoff. Thank you for those words. They're

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meaningful, and I appreciate it. Almost nine years. And it

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ends tonight, and I am really happy. And. It's on

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the docket for you to approve a bylaw tonight that

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will appoint John Collin as the next city manager as

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of 801 tomorrow morning. And I really hope you do

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that. And I look forward to 801 once this meeting,

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eds, whatever it is, please leave me alone. And wait

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till eight. One. For whatever is going on. Chair. I

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would like to make very brief remarks. First. I want

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to acknowledge the people who work for the city of

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Thunder Bay, especially those people who work on the front

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line who deliver service and programs. That every single one

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of us rely on, and we can trust that they

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get the job done. There are accidents. There are omissions,

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of course, but we, our city workers, have set a

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very high standard of service. I know. And my son,

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when he was very young. Knew exactly when the garbage

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truck would come by the house every single week. 20

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years later, that garbage truck comes by my house at

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the same time, same day, every single week. I know.

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And I know you know that the impact of city

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workers on our quality of life and our public safety.

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And the quality of our community is very important, and

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I appreciate them. I also appreciate. Greatly. The people that

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I work directly with, the executive management team of the

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City of thunder bay. Leaders, all who are doing difficult

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but terrific work. They do it with energy, enthusiasm, and

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they do it well. Clerk Christopho power for her commitment

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to governance. And transparency. Solicitor Robinette for her passion for

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the files that she deals with and her logic. HR

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director Carrie Arkies for her ethical compass and her ethnicity.

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Treasurer Carey Grieves for his responsibility and his precision and

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attention to detail. Director Cynthia Olsen for her empathy and

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her compassion. General manager, Kelly Robertson, fitness and energy and

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looking out for the needs of youth in our community.

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General manager Kerry Marshall. Logic and strength. And general manager

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Lewis. Strategy. And action and getting things done. It has

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been my great privilege to work with these leaders. And

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I have learned from every one of them. And I

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have personally benefited from being in their company, and I

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thank them. Mayor mentioned. I've served a city manager under

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three successive councils and three mayors. And it has always

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been, despite bumps. My pleasure to work with three mayors

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and three successive councils. These chambers are hollowed. Hollowed? Those

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words have meaning. Your work is very important to the

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people that live here and visit here, and when you

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do that with dignity, kindness, respect and compassion. You're doing

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good. You're doing right by the people who live and

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work here, regardless of whether they agree. With your decisions.

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Finally. Chair. The mayor also mentioned my 40 years of

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public service in different capacities. I consider that an honor

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and a privilege. And it has been my honor to

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do different types. Of service, and I have benefited personally

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from that, and I have learned every step of the

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way. It has been a career. One like no other.

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And I am grateful to the elected officials and the

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people I work with. For helping me along the way.

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I'm leaving. I will not be a burr in your

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saddle. You will not read a letter to the editor

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from me. But I'll be watching. This is my hometown.

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I'm staying here. My kids are returning here. We love

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Thunder Bay. And that's why I'll be watching. Thank you,

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council, for your service and thank you for everything. Thank

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you, chair. Thank you for those parting words. City manager

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Gail much appreciated your service. Very well. Done. We'll miss

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you. Next item, please. Thank you, chair. Are there any

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disclosures of interest? Seeing none will go to the next

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item. Next is the confirmation of the agenda mover in

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a second or, please. Move by Councilor Chung, second by

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Councilor Pascalino. On that item, Councilor Agawal. I was hoping

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that we could amend the agenda. I know everything on

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the agenda is very important. And not one thing should

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overrule another. However, item number 9.7. Is quite important. It's

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a report that came to us quite late. In the

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week. So the community, in order to have a higher

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rate, Of participation and viewing on the community's behalf. I

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would like to. Move. That. Behind. The deputations that we

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have on the surplus properties. And the reason for this

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is we all know that today is a very big

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hockey game. For our nation. Right. And we want to

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make sure. That before 08:00 we try to get. This

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point brought to the table if it wasn't for that

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engagement that we're going to lose. To our competing interest.

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I wouldn't have asked for that today. Had we got

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the report sooner that the public could have engaged, then

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I would have not. Again, it would not have brought

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that forward, but we received the report late in the

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week and there are a lot of people. We'll look

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for a seconder for that. Councilor Ella will second. Any

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speakers to the agenda change. Yeah, we're changing the agenda.

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We're moving it after the deputations. Clerk power. I know

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you wanted to speak to this, so I'm going to

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ask you to certainly. So the chair and I had

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discussed this when the request came forward. So just as

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a general reminder to members of council, and the chair

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certainly stated it. So did the member. All of your

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items are important. You have consultants attending this evening? On

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your investments. You have the multi year accessibility plan. Significant

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items that are coming forward as well. Certainly we do

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acknowledge the lateness of the time frame of which the

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report was released on Friday. That was also related to

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the time in which it was assigned. So appreciating. All

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of the things are in play as well as a

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sporting event. That's happening this evening that many of you,

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I'm sure, will wish to see. It would not be

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my advice as your clerk to change the order of

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the agenda that gives the public the idea that potentially

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some items are more important than others, and therefore you

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can flex and pivot your agendas as you see fit.

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So certainly up to council and the wish of council

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is how this will proceed. By providing that for your

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advice. Councilor Gretuga. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Well, we've done

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this many times. To me, this is such a significant

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issue in our community that people want to see, and

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I think it should be moved up. It is very

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important. It is affecting so many people. So I have

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no problem with being moved up, and we've done this

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so many times. And it doesn't mean when issues more

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important than others, it's just a matter. Of people being

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here for deputations or whatnot. Thank you, Councilor Hamilton. Yeah,

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chair. I often look at the city website, I look

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at the agenda. I kind of position for council. Watchers,

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they may be looking at where things rank in the

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agenda and when they're going to turn on the tv

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or when they're going to tune in, I think for

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transparency's sake. I think shuffling things around so that people

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that are planning on tuning in an hour into the

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agenda. Now that that item is going to be gone

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or 2 hours in, I think, for transparency's. Sake. We

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have to have a consistent layout with the agenda. And

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even though I've supported actually shuffling things around. In the

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case of, I think we had, like, a whole gallery

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full. Of children here recently, and we did some shuffling

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for that. But in this case, I think people are

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looking at the agenda. And for transparency's sake, I think

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it's very important to keep it in the order so

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that people could plan their nights accordingly. And they could

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actually attend the meeting as presented. Thank you. Okay. Seeing

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no further, I'm told that this will ratify in the

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15 July as well, just for public information. Seeing. No

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questions. We'll call the questions. All in favor of moving

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that item up in. The agenda. 123-4567 any opposed?

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One, two, three. So that would be carried. The agenda.

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Has been modified slightly. Next item, please. So, chair, we

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do need to call for a vote on. The confirmation

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of the agenda. I will also note there are two

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items that have been withdrawn from the agenda. The first

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is the council composition review update. There is also a

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report that has been withdrawn as well. And that relates

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to. Sorry, chair that relates to energy conservation and in

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demand management that has also been withdrawn from the agenda.

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So noting that in the confirmation and amending of your

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agenda. Okay. So we will vote. On the amended agenda.

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All in favor? Any opposed? Carried. Next item. So thank

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you, chair. Under deputations, we have surplus properties. Holly Crescent,

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thistle, Crescent, Crescent and. Thorn low drive. There are five

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deputation requests received on this matter. This relates to an

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item that is being confirmed this evening at city council.

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The first deputation request was received. From Nathan Hewitton and

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dated June 13, requesting to provide. An opportunity to appear

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before committee. So chair Nathan Hewitton and Kevin Ramsay are

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the first two deputies. Yes. If you could come up

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to the seating there and you could address us, I

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believe. Prior to our deputations, city manager Gail, you wish

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to speak? Yes, thank you. Chair and thank you for

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the opportunity to provide some context. For both you. The

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concerned persons that are here, the deputies and for the

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public that may be watching at home. Tonight you are

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considering another important report in the city's response to encampments

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and. Unsheltered homelessness. Since the pandemic. There has been a

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growth in encampments, in temporary shelters, not only in Thunder

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Bay, but across Canada. There is also growing recognition. Mr.

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00:20:03,553 --> 00:20:07,502
Chair, are we speaking to the right item here? I'm

237
00:20:07,502 --> 00:20:13,883
confused. Surplus. Surplus property here. Yeah. I thought I missed

238
00:20:13,883 --> 00:20:16,403
it. Chair. I thought you were tying it into the

239
00:20:16,403 --> 00:20:22,369
park cats personally, but. I wasn't sure, okay? 801 can't

240
00:20:22,369 --> 00:20:26,858
come soon enough. I know. All right. So the deputies

241
00:20:26,858 --> 00:20:32,556
are with us. Kind of relevant it was. You were

242
00:20:32,556 --> 00:20:36,236
throwing me off there. Welcome. You will have ten minutes

243
00:20:36,236 --> 00:20:38,956
to speak with council, and then. We'll follow up with

244
00:20:38,956 --> 00:20:42,116
questions, if there are any, and if you could introduce

245
00:20:42,116 --> 00:20:45,954
yourselves, please. Thank you, members of council, for having us

246
00:20:45,954 --> 00:20:52,643
this evening. In 2022, there was a broad rezoning of

247
00:20:52,643 --> 00:20:59,154
lands that occurred in the city of Thunder Bay. A

248
00:20:59,154 --> 00:21:03,394
lot of it involved parks, green spaces, open spaces, as

249
00:21:03,394 --> 00:21:09,680
they were technically designated. And they've been rezoned. To what

250
00:21:09,680 --> 00:21:13,640
would be called ul urban low rise suited for residential

251
00:21:13,640 --> 00:21:19,146
construction. I understand that the city's plan, this was in

252
00:21:19,146 --> 00:21:25,902
the news. From speaking to people directly affected. There seemed

253
00:21:25,902 --> 00:21:31,921
to be no direct consultation regarding this rezoning. Fast forward

254
00:21:31,921 --> 00:21:35,321
to about a month ago, and we learned that the

255
00:21:35,321 --> 00:21:39,401
city is proposing to declare eight pieces of property, green

256
00:21:39,401 --> 00:21:45,784
spaces and neighborhoods surplus. And with the intention of placing

257
00:21:45,784 --> 00:21:51,675
them for sale to develop housing on. Last week. The

258
00:21:51,675 --> 00:21:57,345
deadline drew close for people to apply for deputations. Or

259
00:21:57,345 --> 00:22:02,521
really express any resistance to this plan. To council. But

260
00:22:02,521 --> 00:22:06,241
we learned that councilor Hamilton wants to disregard the voices

261
00:22:06,241 --> 00:22:13,134
of 100% from people. I've spoken to anyway. Of directly

262
00:22:13,134 --> 00:22:16,694
impacted stakeholders and sell these spaces out from under us.

263
00:22:18,392 --> 00:22:20,792
Some of the people here tonight have been dealing with

264
00:22:20,792 --> 00:22:27,012
this repeated meddling. In policy regarding green spaces, keeping them

265
00:22:27,012 --> 00:22:32,570
versus selling them for several years. From my understanding. We've

266
00:22:32,570 --> 00:22:39,209
been told. In my discussions with public servants about this

267
00:22:39,209 --> 00:22:45,781
on Thornlow Drive. That the lot? That is, Councilor Hamilton

268
00:22:45,781 --> 00:22:50,042
proposes to have added to the surplus list. Is the

269
00:22:50,042 --> 00:22:53,860
only one the city is interested in our neighborhood. With

270
00:22:53,860 --> 00:22:56,180
that said, the park on the other side of the

271
00:22:56,180 --> 00:23:00,540
neighborhood with playground equipment was rezoned for residential construction. The

272
00:23:00,540 --> 00:23:04,700
park behind St. Francis school was rezoned for residential construction.

273
00:23:04,700 --> 00:23:08,100
I doubt most people in Parkdale, on Balsom street near

274
00:23:08,100 --> 00:23:11,340
Dees park, are aware that those parks were all rezoned,

275
00:23:11,340 --> 00:23:19,281
designated ul, suitable for resident. Residential. Construction. So we noticed

276
00:23:19,281 --> 00:23:24,742
that. Certain untouchable area. Hillcrest Park, Vickers park. None of

277
00:23:24,742 --> 00:23:29,670
these were rezoned. So I hope council will understand if

278
00:23:29,670 --> 00:23:32,870
people outside of these four walls are fairly skeptical about

279
00:23:32,870 --> 00:23:40,180
intentions. It seems like selling park space. Is kind of

280
00:23:40,180 --> 00:23:42,500
the low hanging fruit, the quick way to hit a

281
00:23:42,500 --> 00:23:45,740
quota. It's the easy thing to do, but that's not

282
00:23:45,740 --> 00:23:49,996
always the right thing to do. As I'd mentioned earlier,

283
00:23:49,996 --> 00:23:53,596
on Thornlow Drive, I went door to door. I canvassed

284
00:23:53,596 --> 00:24:00,476
neighbors. This had 100% opposition from those directly affected by

285
00:24:00,476 --> 00:24:09,801
this proposal. As in many cities. We

286
00:24:09,801 --> 00:24:16,359
have no shortage. Of less visually appealing areas, buildings, properties

287
00:24:16,359 --> 00:24:23,499
around town. It would seem. To me. That selling parks

288
00:24:23,499 --> 00:24:29,150
should probably be a last resort. Where abandoning some areas

289
00:24:29,150 --> 00:24:32,830
of the city to try and stuff other ones, and

290
00:24:32,830 --> 00:24:35,468
it doesn't. Make sense. In a community of this size.

291
00:24:37,167 --> 00:24:39,327
There's a lot of good reasons to keep that green

292
00:24:39,327 --> 00:24:42,127
space. I'm sure many people will touch on them this

293
00:24:42,127 --> 00:24:52,035
evening. One interesting one is health. As we just put

294
00:24:52,035 --> 00:24:54,315
the pandemic in the rear view mirror, we've been told

295
00:24:54,315 --> 00:24:58,209
for a few years to follow the science. Well, the

296
00:24:58,209 --> 00:25:01,929
science study involving almost 300 million people done out of

297
00:25:01,929 --> 00:25:05,449
the United Kingdom found that people who live around green

298
00:25:05,449 --> 00:25:09,369
spaces have reduced risk of type two diabetes, heart disease,

299
00:25:09,369 --> 00:25:14,928
premature death, stress, and hypertension, amongst others. Interesting to note

300
00:25:14,928 --> 00:25:18,448
that Thunder Bay has all of these happening at higher.

301
00:25:20,513 --> 00:25:23,193
Occurrence rate than the province or the country as a

302
00:25:23,193 --> 00:25:27,063
whole. On the other side of Thorn low Drive, there's

303
00:25:27,063 --> 00:25:35,205
another small park. People have put it to me that

304
00:25:35,205 --> 00:25:39,948
there's two parks in the neighborhood. What's losing one. They

305
00:25:39,948 --> 00:25:42,828
kind of serve very different purposes. There's a park on

306
00:25:42,828 --> 00:25:45,948
Thornlow Drive that has some playground equipment, and it's on

307
00:25:45,948 --> 00:25:49,868
a big slope. It's not terribly suitable for children running

308
00:25:49,868 --> 00:25:52,628
or engaging in any type of sports. Catching a ball,

309
00:25:52,628 --> 00:25:55,468
you can easily end up tumbling down a hill. There's

310
00:25:55,468 --> 00:25:58,508
also the good risk of hitting toddlers on playground equipment

311
00:25:58,508 --> 00:26:01,195
and swing sets. So what we typically see in the

312
00:26:01,195 --> 00:26:04,675
neighborhood is parents with younger children go to one area

313
00:26:04,675 --> 00:26:06,875
and older children that are just old enough to be

314
00:26:06,875 --> 00:26:09,715
unsupervised in the immediate vicinity. Of their home. Go to

315
00:26:09,715 --> 00:26:13,075
the other area and there's room there they'll play. Baseball,

316
00:26:13,075 --> 00:26:18,235
football practice, golfing. I've seen people doing yoga. Any number

317
00:26:18,235 --> 00:26:21,635
of activities taking place there. There's also a small park

318
00:26:21,635 --> 00:26:26,729
behind. St. Francis school. As I've been reminded, however, for

319
00:26:26,729 --> 00:26:30,849
a lot of the children on Thornlow Drive. 1.2 km

320
00:26:30,849 --> 00:26:33,689
is a bit of a hike to send them unsupervised.

321
00:26:33,689 --> 00:26:37,329
When you can send them to a field and look

322
00:26:37,329 --> 00:26:40,499
out to your living room window. And watch them. I

323
00:26:40,499 --> 00:26:45,875
can only speak. With direct experience about the property on

324
00:26:45,875 --> 00:26:51,379
Thornlow Drive. It's where Ken and I live. The site

325
00:26:51,379 --> 00:26:54,299
does not go to waste. Thornlow Drive is a particularly

326
00:26:54,299 --> 00:26:58,160
active neighborhood. I've been woken up at five in the

327
00:26:58,160 --> 00:27:00,840
morning, gone to the window and seen somebody. Walking a

328
00:27:00,840 --> 00:27:05,246
dog down the street. Their people are running. They're playing.

329
00:27:05,246 --> 00:27:09,896
They're taking their pets out. There's green space does certainly

330
00:27:09,896 --> 00:27:14,514
get used. Thornlow is also becoming a rapidly younger street.

331
00:27:16,280 --> 00:27:19,420
Which demands an increase in play space. What was once

332
00:27:19,420 --> 00:27:23,180
an established neighborhood for established families to buy homes. In

333
00:27:23,180 --> 00:27:27,576
the 1970s, due. To the age of the neighborhood, the

334
00:27:27,576 --> 00:27:31,523
green space and the amenities. Is now affordable housing for

335
00:27:31,523 --> 00:27:38,252
young working families. There's another issue. That Ken will likely

336
00:27:38,252 --> 00:27:42,092
elaborate on more, and that is that much of Thornlow

337
00:27:42,092 --> 00:27:45,452
is curved there's. A lot of folks that park on

338
00:27:45,452 --> 00:27:49,013
both sides of the road at the same time. There

339
00:27:49,013 --> 00:27:52,013
are safety issues with increasing the traffic load on this

340
00:27:52,013 --> 00:27:55,813
street. We already see close calls with collisions involving other

341
00:27:55,813 --> 00:28:00,233
vehicles with pedestrians, with kids on bikes. As I said.

342
00:28:01,752 --> 00:28:03,152
It's a curved street with a lot of people parking

343
00:28:03,152 --> 00:28:06,072
on both sides of it. There's. No sidewalks and where

344
00:28:06,072 --> 00:28:10,804
you're proposing to add development to the neighborhood. Is already

345
00:28:10,804 --> 00:28:15,589
the worst spot on that street. I've had several close

346
00:28:15,589 --> 00:28:20,049
calls with collisions driving through that part. There's also the

347
00:28:20,049 --> 00:28:23,769
suitability of building there. The city proposes to sell a

348
00:28:23,769 --> 00:28:28,529
lot that's approximately 100ft deep. Councilor Hamilton's memorandum says that

349
00:28:28,529 --> 00:28:31,089
whatever is built there will conform to the built form

350
00:28:31,089 --> 00:28:33,809
of that neighborhood. The built form of that neighborhood has

351
00:28:33,809 --> 00:28:40,505
a setback of 40ft from the. Curb for the front

352
00:28:40,505 --> 00:28:42,625
of houses, and the average depth of a house on

353
00:28:42,625 --> 00:28:46,025
that street is 35. To 40ft. So whatever you build

354
00:28:46,025 --> 00:28:49,065
on this lot is left with a 20 foot backyard

355
00:28:49,065 --> 00:28:52,850
that slopes into a ravine at the back. Doesn't sound

356
00:28:52,850 --> 00:29:01,673
like ideal. Development potential. With those points in mind. I'd

357
00:29:01,673 --> 00:29:03,473
like to. You have two minutes left, and I'd like

358
00:29:03,473 --> 00:29:08,424
to turn over. To Ken Ramsey. Thank you. Thank you.

359
00:29:08,424 --> 00:29:11,984
Nathan, can you hear me? No. Okay, so I have

360
00:29:11,984 --> 00:29:14,464
a great deal of. Concern about the safety as an

361
00:29:14,464 --> 00:29:20,545
owner and as a leader. In the private business. I

362
00:29:20,545 --> 00:29:23,865
believe council has an opportunity and an obligation to ensure

363
00:29:23,865 --> 00:29:26,465
the safety of the residents and the citizens of the

364
00:29:26,465 --> 00:29:30,305
communities. And I believe what Nathan has said is to

365
00:29:30,305 --> 00:29:35,622
be very true. That creep cutting a multi residential complex

366
00:29:35,622 --> 00:29:41,282
on that corner. Is sure to create serious safety issues,

367
00:29:41,282 --> 00:29:44,122
and I believe that the people here that don't. Realize

368
00:29:44,122 --> 00:29:50,636
that. Need to take a drive down that street. When

369
00:29:50,636 --> 00:29:52,756
it's active, not 10:00 in the morning or 02:00 in

370
00:29:52,756 --> 00:29:55,676
the afternoon when their kids are in school, but when

371
00:29:55,676 --> 00:29:58,876
the playground is actually being used, they around supper. Timer

372
00:29:58,876 --> 00:30:02,915
in the evening, and you'll find that. You used to

373
00:30:02,915 --> 00:30:05,195
be able to walk on that street with the dog

374
00:30:05,195 --> 00:30:07,795
or your family, and there was no problem. You didn't

375
00:30:07,795 --> 00:30:09,395
have to worry about the sidewalk. You just walked in

376
00:30:09,395 --> 00:30:12,435
the street. Now you're taking your life in your hands,

377
00:30:12,435 --> 00:30:15,435
especially at that end, because there is a boat. And

378
00:30:15,435 --> 00:30:18,937
if you realize. It's a more affluent neighborhood than most.

379
00:30:18,937 --> 00:30:21,497
Some neighborhoods in the city, most people would agree to

380
00:30:21,497 --> 00:30:24,777
that. And I don't care how you build, whatever you

381
00:30:24,777 --> 00:30:28,869
build, it will not be to the same level. Or

382
00:30:28,869 --> 00:30:32,971
appearance as what is presently there. And my logic is

383
00:30:32,971 --> 00:30:36,971
that you will therefore reduce the value of the properties

384
00:30:36,971 --> 00:30:41,167
there. That will reduce. The assessments for tax purposes, and

385
00:30:41,167 --> 00:30:43,527
the city will actually end up with a less income

386
00:30:43,527 --> 00:30:47,899
from property. Tax revenue than they presently have now. You

387
00:30:47,899 --> 00:30:51,233
have 15 seconds to wrap up, okay? So I think

388
00:30:51,233 --> 00:30:52,953
that, first off, you got to look at the safety,

389
00:30:52,953 --> 00:30:55,393
and secondly, you got to look at the revenues. There's

390
00:30:55,393 --> 00:30:57,593
a fallacy that you're going to improve the neighborhood. By

391
00:30:57,593 --> 00:30:59,913
putting these units in, you are not going to improve.

392
00:30:59,913 --> 00:31:06,002
Farnells drives neighborhood by putting multiplex units in there. I

393
00:31:06,002 --> 00:31:09,322
have to say, we appreciate you coming out this evening.

394
00:31:09,322 --> 00:31:14,951
We'll see if there's. Questions from counselors councilor Pascalino. Thank

395
00:31:14,951 --> 00:31:17,871
you very much. And through the chair, can you describe

396
00:31:17,871 --> 00:31:21,911
the changing demographics that's on Thornlow drive and how the

397
00:31:21,911 --> 00:31:27,645
sale of this field will impact these residences. What we're

398
00:31:27,645 --> 00:31:30,565
seeing again, I'd mentioned due to the age of the

399
00:31:30,565 --> 00:31:37,552
neighborhood and the affordability of the homes. Is. A rapid

400
00:31:37,552 --> 00:31:40,632
transformation to younger families with children and a greater demand

401
00:31:40,632 --> 00:31:44,066
for play space on the street. I personally only resided

402
00:31:44,066 --> 00:31:49,019
on Thornlow Drive. For seven years. The amount of change

403
00:31:49,019 --> 00:31:52,781
in home ownership that I've seen on the street. Seems

404
00:31:52,781 --> 00:31:56,452
considerable for that period of time. When we moved in.

405
00:31:58,520 --> 00:32:03,550
It was a quiet. Neighborhood with, shall we say, typically

406
00:32:03,550 --> 00:32:08,209
more mature demographic. Every day I drive home from work

407
00:32:08,209 --> 00:32:11,369
with my windows open and I hear children screaming, laughing,

408
00:32:11,369 --> 00:32:13,409
playing. I see them on a field, I see them

409
00:32:13,409 --> 00:32:23,053
in a park. My generation, I guess. Parents with young

410
00:32:23,053 --> 00:32:29,102
families. We got to see a generation raised on cell

411
00:32:29,102 --> 00:32:33,583
phones and Facebook. And we don't care for what we've

412
00:32:33,583 --> 00:32:37,366
seen. So you're starting to go back to the days

413
00:32:37,366 --> 00:32:41,160
of driving down the road and. Hearing kids yelling car

414
00:32:41,160 --> 00:32:44,760
and moving the hockey nets. Basketball nets are full time,

415
00:32:44,760 --> 00:32:48,300
set up on the side of thorn low drive. We're

416
00:32:48,300 --> 00:32:52,735
kind of back to get the kids outside. Get them

417
00:32:52,735 --> 00:32:55,895
running, get them playing baseball, playing hockey, being active in

418
00:32:55,895 --> 00:33:01,209
the outdoors. And we see more young people moving onto

419
00:33:01,209 --> 00:33:03,689
the street, more young people having families, more young people.

420
00:33:03,689 --> 00:33:06,689
That intend to have families or grow their families. So

421
00:33:06,689 --> 00:33:10,955
the demand for play space in this neighborhood. Is absolutely

422
00:33:10,955 --> 00:33:16,758
not shrinking. It's only increasing. So that piece of property

423
00:33:16,758 --> 00:33:24,325
is very valued and. Well appreciated, Councilor Pascalino. Further. Yeah,

424
00:33:24,325 --> 00:33:30,390
I was just wondering. What? Your major. Safety concern is

425
00:33:30,390 --> 00:33:38,643
for the increased traffic on Thornlow Drive. Again. That part

426
00:33:38,643 --> 00:33:44,426
of the street. Is quite a curve. Visibility is obstructed

427
00:33:44,426 --> 00:33:51,483
by some forested area. Part of which. Is protected. When

428
00:33:51,483 --> 00:33:54,643
you're coming around that bend, there's often vehicles parked on

429
00:33:54,643 --> 00:33:59,668
both sides. Children are active on bicycles. As I said,

430
00:33:59,668 --> 00:34:02,108
it's a very active street with people out walking, running.

431
00:34:05,701 --> 00:34:09,731
With their dogs. They've got kids. You see close calls

432
00:34:09,731 --> 00:34:12,091
in this. It's kind of a choke point. And you

433
00:34:12,091 --> 00:34:18,104
frequently see close calls with vehicular collisions. This area is

434
00:34:18,104 --> 00:34:22,424
right where this lot is proposed to be sold, so

435
00:34:22,424 --> 00:34:27,703
there's a natural concern for people on the street. That

436
00:34:27,703 --> 00:34:29,423
I don't know exactly what it's going to look like,

437
00:34:29,423 --> 00:34:31,503
but if you parcel that into two lots and build

438
00:34:31,503 --> 00:34:34,743
two fourplexes. You've got eight houses with two vehicles per

439
00:34:34,743 --> 00:34:38,183
house. So you've added 16 cars to a congested stretch

440
00:34:38,183 --> 00:34:42,577
of a little street. And then when they entertain, you've

441
00:34:42,577 --> 00:34:48,518
got more people parked along the road. So the safety

442
00:34:48,518 --> 00:34:51,838
perspective is largely focused just around the traffic density on

443
00:34:51,838 --> 00:34:55,597
that area of the street. With poor visibility. For my

444
00:34:55,597 --> 00:35:03,180
last question. I was just wondering. About snow plowing and.

445
00:35:05,303 --> 00:35:07,663
They're rarely, I think, in that area there's any cars

446
00:35:07,663 --> 00:35:10,063
parked on the street. For when the plow comes by,

447
00:35:10,063 --> 00:35:15,935
I guess. That on street parking versus off street parking.

448
00:35:15,935 --> 00:35:19,855
It's mostly in that area. It's all off street parking,

449
00:35:19,855 --> 00:35:22,815
I would imagine, anyway. Or unless somebody comes over, right?

450
00:35:24,274 --> 00:35:26,874
Yeah. Do you have anything to add in that? Respect,

451
00:35:26,874 --> 00:35:29,234
in the wintertime, most of the residents want to get

452
00:35:29,234 --> 00:35:31,794
their cars off so they can get the street plowed.

453
00:35:31,794 --> 00:35:35,074
There are no sidewalks. So they've got these big banks

454
00:35:35,074 --> 00:35:37,554
along each side of the road that are six, 8ft.

455
00:35:37,554 --> 00:35:42,414
High. And you can't even see your car sometimes that's

456
00:35:42,414 --> 00:35:46,332
parked in front because. Of the banks. That means that

457
00:35:46,332 --> 00:35:51,007
the road is even narrower. In that case. Thank you.

458
00:35:52,481 --> 00:35:57,525
And appreciate the answers. Councilor Aguilar. Thank you very much.

459
00:35:57,525 --> 00:36:01,285
And through the chair. Mr. Ramsay, you've lived in the

460
00:36:01,285 --> 00:36:05,446
area for. A little bit more than seven years. Can

461
00:36:05,446 --> 00:36:07,766
you tell me, in your words how the demographic, why

462
00:36:07,766 --> 00:36:10,926
you moved to that area and how. The demographics are

463
00:36:10,926 --> 00:36:17,557
changing from when. You probably built. I bought the property

464
00:36:17,557 --> 00:36:21,357
in 1979. We built in 79 and moved to 1980.

465
00:36:21,357 --> 00:36:24,571
We had a fair to young family. As I mentioned

466
00:36:24,571 --> 00:36:28,331
earlier and my other correspondence, there was two lots that

467
00:36:28,331 --> 00:36:31,571
were vacant that are now being desired to be built

468
00:36:31,571 --> 00:36:34,931
on. I tried to buy those lots because I want

469
00:36:34,931 --> 00:36:39,713
to have a nice house and a nice view. And

470
00:36:39,713 --> 00:36:41,153
the field would still be there if I was on

471
00:36:41,153 --> 00:36:43,873
one of them. What happened was I was told that

472
00:36:43,873 --> 00:36:46,633
the green space was compulsory the way it was set

473
00:36:46,633 --> 00:36:49,273
up with a developer ltl there had to be so

474
00:36:49,273 --> 00:36:52,193
much green space for so many houses, and so that

475
00:36:52,193 --> 00:36:54,073
was a plus for me, we're going to have green

476
00:36:54,073 --> 00:36:56,913
space. I managed to buy a lot privately. And built

477
00:36:56,913 --> 00:36:59,233
where I built, which is right next to where you're

478
00:36:59,233 --> 00:37:01,045
going. To put a sixplex or an eightplex or a

479
00:37:01,045 --> 00:37:03,525
ten plex or whatever the city wants to do, which

480
00:37:03,525 --> 00:37:06,805
will have a devastating effect on the value of my

481
00:37:06,805 --> 00:37:10,887
land. I've read or heard that some of the counselors

482
00:37:10,887 --> 00:37:15,665
believe that by building. I believe the question was demographics.

483
00:37:15,665 --> 00:37:18,705
Okay, so how have you seen the demographics change over

484
00:37:18,705 --> 00:37:21,865
time? Well, the demographics have gone from me being one

485
00:37:21,865 --> 00:37:24,865
of the youngest people on there with young kids to

486
00:37:24,865 --> 00:37:27,345
one of the oldest people on there with grandchildren using

487
00:37:27,345 --> 00:37:29,265
the area, and there are many people as a matter

488
00:37:29,265 --> 00:37:30,745
of fact, the house at the end of the street

489
00:37:30,745 --> 00:37:34,200
was just sold to the grandson. Of the past owner

490
00:37:34,200 --> 00:37:36,922
who passed away. I know that there are a number

491
00:37:36,922 --> 00:37:40,282
of new people on the street that did not live

492
00:37:40,282 --> 00:37:44,402
there. Before. And. They are a lot younger than the

493
00:37:44,402 --> 00:37:46,602
people that used to be there. We've lost a lot

494
00:37:46,602 --> 00:37:49,482
of old timers, but we've got a lot of young

495
00:37:49,482 --> 00:37:52,539
people living on the street. Now, right across from you,

496
00:37:52,539 --> 00:37:55,379
there's a families come in with two kids. They've got

497
00:37:55,379 --> 00:37:58,179
the basketball net out in front, and it's great to

498
00:37:58,179 --> 00:38:00,459
see that again. We haven't had that for a few

499
00:38:00,459 --> 00:38:05,847
years. Thank you. So would you then concur that the

500
00:38:05,847 --> 00:38:09,247
area is in an area of transition from the people

501
00:38:09,247 --> 00:38:11,527
who didn't want to move from there, and they're now

502
00:38:11,527 --> 00:38:13,447
aging out because the house is too big or two

503
00:38:13,447 --> 00:38:16,447
stories. They don't want stairs and they want to. Go

504
00:38:16,447 --> 00:38:18,207
to more of a one level living. And now two

505
00:38:18,207 --> 00:38:21,087
young families once again, that went there. For the same

506
00:38:21,087 --> 00:38:25,291
reason that you initially went. In 1979. Keep in mind

507
00:38:25,291 --> 00:38:27,411
that a lot of the reason that the people, the

508
00:38:27,411 --> 00:38:29,691
young people are coming to this area is because of

509
00:38:29,691 --> 00:38:31,731
the green space, because they have an area that kids

510
00:38:31,731 --> 00:38:35,431
can play and because it's quiet. To me, it's a

511
00:38:35,431 --> 00:38:40,740
very desirable area. Under me. There are a few very

512
00:38:40,740 --> 00:38:42,740
desirable areas in thunder b, and this is one of

513
00:38:42,740 --> 00:38:47,630
them. And. I think that it attracts young people with

514
00:38:47,630 --> 00:38:54,234
rejuvenates the community. And it improves. The atmosphere, if you

515
00:38:54,234 --> 00:38:56,554
like, because you got kids running around and you've got

516
00:38:56,554 --> 00:38:59,834
people that are out and about, especially walking dogs, walking

517
00:38:59,834 --> 00:39:03,802
kids, walking families. It's good to see that. And thank

518
00:39:03,802 --> 00:39:08,020
you. My last question. I'll address it to Mr. Hewitton.

519
00:39:08,020 --> 00:39:11,473
When you chose to move there seven years ago, Did

520
00:39:11,473 --> 00:39:14,913
the idea of a crescent be more appealing rather than

521
00:39:14,913 --> 00:39:19,674
a straight thoroughfare due to the traffic calming. Certainly, yes.

522
00:39:22,880 --> 00:39:26,440
We found the shape and layout of the street in

523
00:39:26,440 --> 00:39:32,280
the neighborhood to be very welcoming, quiet. And the green

524
00:39:32,280 --> 00:39:35,360
space certainly was attractive. In fact, in our particular case,

525
00:39:36,956 --> 00:39:38,036
I had property on the north end of the city

526
00:39:38,036 --> 00:39:41,265
and was about to construct a new house. We heard

527
00:39:41,265 --> 00:39:43,905
about this property on thorn low drive. After saying, where

528
00:39:43,905 --> 00:39:45,625
the heck is thorn low drive? And looking it up

529
00:39:45,625 --> 00:39:48,998
on Google maps. We went to have a look. And.

530
00:39:50,738 --> 00:39:53,418
We quickly abandoned our plans to build a house where

531
00:39:53,418 --> 00:39:58,682
we were going to and purchased. An as is house

532
00:39:58,682 --> 00:40:01,442
for a bit of a project on Thornlow Drive just

533
00:40:01,442 --> 00:40:03,922
to get into. An area like that with green space

534
00:40:03,922 --> 00:40:10,389
to start a family. And yes. The low traffic flow

535
00:40:10,389 --> 00:40:16,533
was certainly appealing. Thank you very much. Councilor Trini. Then

536
00:40:16,533 --> 00:40:20,365
councilor guru. Oh, I thought you chimed in first. Councilor

537
00:40:20,365 --> 00:40:26,146
Gartuga. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Thank you. Councilor trini. Are

538
00:40:26,146 --> 00:40:33,403
you aware that previously. When developer. Would. Do a development.

539
00:40:35,401 --> 00:40:40,332
They had to give 5%. Of the property to greenspace.

540
00:40:42,203 --> 00:40:47,303
Okay. So that probably was the case here. I don't

541
00:40:47,303 --> 00:40:51,543
see that we've changed our policies to this point. I

542
00:40:51,543 --> 00:40:57,777
think that. We still. Require the developers to give 5%

543
00:40:57,777 --> 00:41:01,656
green space. I just want to know if you knew

544
00:41:01,656 --> 00:41:03,976
that. So that's why you have that park. And the

545
00:41:03,976 --> 00:41:07,616
idea behind that was so that the parks were associated

546
00:41:07,616 --> 00:41:09,976
with the development and so that you didn't have to

547
00:41:09,976 --> 00:41:12,496
go too far. So that's why that park gets there.

548
00:41:12,496 --> 00:41:15,736
And other little parkets are all around the city, so

549
00:41:15,736 --> 00:41:22,901
thank you. Councilor Trini. Thank you. Through the chair. I'm

550
00:41:22,901 --> 00:41:25,981
finding it interesting as people send us emails about the

551
00:41:25,981 --> 00:41:28,381
development and the parquet pieces. How we've gone from a

552
00:41:28,381 --> 00:41:32,228
duplex to a six. Plex to a twelve plex. These

553
00:41:32,228 --> 00:41:36,028
pieces I don't believe would be supporting that. And there

554
00:41:36,028 --> 00:41:39,948
are guidelines within the city. Building that require parking spaces

555
00:41:39,948 --> 00:41:42,188
for each unit, and I'm not sure if you're. Aware

556
00:41:42,188 --> 00:41:46,661
of that, councilor Trini. My question is about parking. You're

557
00:41:46,661 --> 00:41:48,781
talking about parking and people being on the street and.

558
00:41:48,781 --> 00:41:51,621
You're concerned about plowing and more people on the street

559
00:41:51,621 --> 00:41:54,061
and the dangers of that. But there's a requirement for

560
00:41:54,061 --> 00:41:57,141
parking spaces, and I wasn't sure if you're. Aware per

561
00:41:57,141 --> 00:42:01,382
unit. And so that would alleviate that because people wouldn't

562
00:42:01,382 --> 00:42:04,725
be on the street. The other question that I had

563
00:42:04,725 --> 00:42:08,408
kind of for you. You're nodding your head yes. Actually,

564
00:42:08,408 --> 00:42:12,408
I got a lot for admin on this topic, but

565
00:42:12,408 --> 00:42:16,568
I'm also getting emails. From people talking about nimbyism, not

566
00:42:16,568 --> 00:42:20,288
in my backyard pieces. And while I appreciate that, I

567
00:42:20,288 --> 00:42:22,928
don't think that's what's happening when we're having all these

568
00:42:22,928 --> 00:42:25,608
people here to talk about parquettes. I think there's a

569
00:42:25,608 --> 00:42:29,843
different piece here. In the. Documentation that we were sent.

570
00:42:29,843 --> 00:42:32,723
Because you've talked about Thorn Low, the number of people

571
00:42:32,723 --> 00:42:38,584
who've actually responded to quite a process. In getting consultation.

572
00:42:40,055 --> 00:42:41,775
Their main concern. The majority were concerned with the type

573
00:42:41,775 --> 00:42:46,015
of housing being permitted in an area consistently mainly of

574
00:42:46,015 --> 00:42:48,295
single family homes. So I think we need to get

575
00:42:48,295 --> 00:42:51,415
to the heart of the issue. And these other pieces?

576
00:42:51,415 --> 00:42:56,656
Well, yes, they are a piece, councilor Trinity. We're supposed

577
00:42:56,656 --> 00:42:59,294
to be asking questions. I am. Yeah, but I'm not

578
00:42:59,294 --> 00:43:03,129
here. It is about the multifamily home. Let's just ask.

579
00:43:03,922 --> 00:43:05,402
Is that the real? Well, I want the public to

580
00:43:05,402 --> 00:43:08,002
know that I've read the information. I've heard you. I've

581
00:43:08,002 --> 00:43:11,402
heard other people who've emailed me. I appreciate those pieces,

582
00:43:11,402 --> 00:43:14,042
but the multifamily home seems to really be the key

583
00:43:14,042 --> 00:43:17,962
piece here. And we're getting mixed up with parking, which

584
00:43:17,962 --> 00:43:20,202
shouldn't hopefully be an issue, so. I'd like you to

585
00:43:20,202 --> 00:43:22,842
expand a little bit more on the multifamily home. Concerns,

586
00:43:22,842 --> 00:43:27,288
please. To be perfectly honest, that's something I've heard fairly

587
00:43:27,288 --> 00:43:30,568
little of going door to. Door. Speaking directly with residents

588
00:43:30,568 --> 00:43:34,259
on Thorn low drive. I can't speak for everybody on

589
00:43:34,259 --> 00:43:37,699
the street how they feel about multifamily. Single family. I

590
00:43:37,699 --> 00:43:41,789
personally, whatever. You build a 711 on it, it's a

591
00:43:41,789 --> 00:43:44,429
green space that's gone whether it's a house, whether it's

592
00:43:44,429 --> 00:43:48,247
a castle, whether it's an apartment building. It's lost green

593
00:43:48,247 --> 00:43:52,706
space that can never be recovered. Fair. Thank you. So

594
00:43:52,706 --> 00:43:55,386
my next question about the green space piece, then we

595
00:43:55,386 --> 00:43:58,786
were also instructed about. Green space piece and I have

596
00:43:58,786 --> 00:44:00,946
driven the area. I did some, quite a bit of

597
00:44:00,946 --> 00:44:05,362
research. The green space. The Neibing river buffer is a

598
00:44:05,362 --> 00:44:09,282
substantial amount of space around the river. Including bike paths

599
00:44:09,282 --> 00:44:14,554
and pieces like that. The thornlow buffer also has. A

600
00:44:14,554 --> 00:44:22,387
retained city lands. Of. The. Ravine piece, which is substantial

601
00:44:22,387 --> 00:44:28,989
city lands to still continue. With forestry and surrounded by

602
00:44:28,989 --> 00:44:32,349
trees and those pieces. So you really feel that this

603
00:44:32,349 --> 00:44:36,069
piece of thornlow would completely change the neighborhood in regards

604
00:44:36,069 --> 00:44:41,505
to those pieces. Yeah. Through the chair.

605
00:44:48,759 --> 00:44:52,839
That retained land isn't really ideal for any practical usage.

606
00:44:54,919 --> 00:44:57,239
I mean, if I see kids playing soccer on that

607
00:44:57,239 --> 00:45:01,199
field, they're not going to do it on a forested

608
00:45:01,199 --> 00:45:05,085
ravine edge. So I don't see a lot of use

609
00:45:05,085 --> 00:45:09,931
coming. From that space as an alternative. In fact, one

610
00:45:09,931 --> 00:45:13,411
thing that concerns me is with the back of the

611
00:45:13,411 --> 00:45:16,651
land you propose to sell? Kind of sloping off into

612
00:45:16,651 --> 00:45:21,291
this ravine. Any work that somebody would undertake to shore

613
00:45:21,291 --> 00:45:24,011
up or stabilize the back of that property would require

614
00:45:24,011 --> 00:45:27,228
destruction of that forested area. In order to. Perform the

615
00:45:27,228 --> 00:45:31,805
work. You just can't run excavators in dense Bush. Okay,

616
00:45:31,805 --> 00:45:34,405
thank you for that. And my third question. The money.

617
00:45:34,405 --> 00:45:38,085
That would be. I think you've asked three. Really? Okay.

618
00:45:38,085 --> 00:45:40,635
I'll go in the second round, then. So there's only

619
00:45:40,635 --> 00:45:45,311
one round. I think I asked. Parking and multi use.

620
00:45:45,311 --> 00:45:49,797
I'm sorry. I counted three. I could stand corrected, but

621
00:45:49,797 --> 00:45:54,313
I think I'm seeing nodding. Yeah. I would ask all

622
00:45:54,313 --> 00:45:57,233
members to not preface questions when it comes to deputations.

623
00:45:57,233 --> 00:46:00,153
We're just to ask questions, not to inundate them with

624
00:46:00,153 --> 00:46:07,072
opinion and other things. Just questions, please, Councilor Johnson. Thank

625
00:46:07,072 --> 00:46:12,738
you. Chair through you gentlemen. Thanks for coming tonight. I.

626
00:46:15,362 --> 00:46:17,402
Voted for selling the surplus lands. I don't mind putting

627
00:46:17,402 --> 00:46:19,402
my cards on the table, so. It's not just on

628
00:46:19,402 --> 00:46:25,087
Councilor Hamilton. Mainly because of. Well, one reason is I

629
00:46:25,087 --> 00:46:29,702
get asked a lot. From people that resided the needing

630
00:46:29,702 --> 00:46:32,662
ward and asked this question of all other neighborhoods around.

631
00:46:33,847 --> 00:46:40,002
Other parks aren't looking so good. Holes and slides. No

632
00:46:40,002 --> 00:46:43,442
places to play. So, as I understand it from administration

633
00:46:43,442 --> 00:46:46,202
thus far, some of the monies here can go to

634
00:46:46,202 --> 00:46:50,282
other parks nearby, and I'm hopeful that they'll go even.

635
00:46:50,282 --> 00:46:53,482
Further to maybe. Councilor, we need to get to questions

636
00:46:53,482 --> 00:46:58,016
quick. We have five deputies. Don't talk over me. Please,

637
00:46:58,016 --> 00:47:00,136
just. We need to get to questions, and we have

638
00:47:00,136 --> 00:47:03,296
five. Deputations. We have a lot on the agenda tonight,

639
00:47:03,296 --> 00:47:05,896
so I don't want to spend hours and hours on

640
00:47:05,896 --> 00:47:10,643
these deputations. And get to the meteor items, if you

641
00:47:10,643 --> 00:47:13,283
will. Not that this isn't meaty, but. We have a

642
00:47:13,283 --> 00:47:16,643
lot of things, including homeless. So I've asked many times.

643
00:47:16,643 --> 00:47:18,603
So I'm going to keep cutting in when we don't

644
00:47:18,603 --> 00:47:21,363
get to questions. I was 3 seconds. Away from. I

645
00:47:21,363 --> 00:47:26,381
know, but we were 15 seconds in. That regard other

646
00:47:26,381 --> 00:47:29,501
areas, other parks throughout the city can benefit from the

647
00:47:29,501 --> 00:47:33,885
sale of this land. I'd like to know. Your thoughts

648
00:47:33,885 --> 00:47:37,645
on that with respect. Again, it's something that others are

649
00:47:37,645 --> 00:47:41,349
chiming in about. And trying to attain. Through the sale

650
00:47:41,349 --> 00:47:45,080
of this particular land and others. Well, while I agree

651
00:47:45,080 --> 00:47:53,166
that. Probably a lot of cases. Consolidation. Of resources or

652
00:47:53,166 --> 00:47:58,056
amenities can often make sense or be efficient. These are

653
00:47:58,056 --> 00:48:01,336
places where young children go, so I can't tell my

654
00:48:01,336 --> 00:48:05,016
six year old go. 1.2 couple of blocks over and

655
00:48:05,016 --> 00:48:10,386
go play in the field there instead. They added. A

656
00:48:10,386 --> 00:48:13,361
new picnic table or something? It's one of those things

657
00:48:13,361 --> 00:48:16,521
that there's a reason you have to put 5% green

658
00:48:16,521 --> 00:48:19,521
space in the subdivisions. It's because you have space for

659
00:48:19,521 --> 00:48:22,281
children to play or the community to use as they

660
00:48:22,281 --> 00:48:27,125
see fit immediately nearby. So, I mean, I'm aware that

661
00:48:27,125 --> 00:48:30,885
there's an intent to use revenue generated by. The sale

662
00:48:30,885 --> 00:48:38,425
of these lands to improve other play facilities. But nobody's

663
00:48:38,425 --> 00:48:41,545
asking for improved playground equipment or additional money to be

664
00:48:41,545 --> 00:48:43,665
spent anywhere. They just want a field to play on.

665
00:48:45,565 --> 00:48:49,847
Okay. I appreciate your response, and good luck. Good luck.

666
00:48:49,847 --> 00:48:53,258
Thank you. Thank you. Chair. Thank you. Further questions to

667
00:48:53,258 --> 00:48:57,178
this deputation? Seeing none, I was hoping we could save

668
00:48:57,178 --> 00:49:00,298
all questions to admit after the five deputies, since they're

669
00:49:00,298 --> 00:49:06,924
all related. Would that be okay with council? Okay, so

670
00:49:06,924 --> 00:49:14,588
I'll put you down, Councilor Gurtuga. It's unlimited. There's no

671
00:49:14,588 --> 00:49:17,508
emotion. But again, they get five rounds. I guess you'll

672
00:49:17,508 --> 00:49:21,161
get five. Rounds if you want it. So some of

673
00:49:21,161 --> 00:49:24,401
your questions could be answered in these deputations. So thank

674
00:49:24,401 --> 00:49:26,921
you very much. For coming forward this evening. You can

675
00:49:26,921 --> 00:49:30,481
retire back to the gallery and we'll invite our next

676
00:49:30,481 --> 00:49:39,932
people up. Chair, our next speaker. We receive correspondence from

677
00:49:39,932 --> 00:49:43,892
Ronald Portland dated June 20, again requesting an opportunity to

678
00:49:43,892 --> 00:49:47,412
speak before council. We do have three speakers with that

679
00:49:47,412 --> 00:49:54,222
group. Ronald, irene and tracy. We'd welcome you to come

680
00:49:54,222 --> 00:49:56,735
forward. And if it's only one of you, that's fine

681
00:49:56,735 --> 00:50:04,535
too. Okay, that's fine too. So welcome. And if you

682
00:50:04,535 --> 00:50:06,735
could just ensure when you're speaking that you press the

683
00:50:06,735 --> 00:50:09,295
on. Button on your microphone and you'll have ten minutes

684
00:50:09,295 --> 00:50:13,175
and we'll go to questions. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. And

685
00:50:13,175 --> 00:50:21,837
thank you, members of council, for hearing us tonight. My

686
00:50:21,837 --> 00:50:27,655
name is Ron Portalance, as the deputy says. I'll be

687
00:50:27,655 --> 00:50:30,495
presenting our deputation tonight together with my co presenter, Irene

688
00:50:30,495 --> 00:50:34,568
Miln. Here at my side. We are both long terms,

689
00:50:34,568 --> 00:50:39,462
and I stress long. Term residents of Thistle Crescent and

690
00:50:39,462 --> 00:50:44,132
represent the Thistle Crescents neighborhood group. All right. We are

691
00:50:44,132 --> 00:50:49,741
here tonight to ask you for. A simple. Simple action.

692
00:50:49,741 --> 00:50:54,781
We're asking you not to approve Mr. Hamilton's motion to

693
00:50:54,781 --> 00:50:58,565
put the parquet back into the system. You've already made

694
00:50:58,565 --> 00:51:01,165
a report to take r three out, and we would

695
00:51:01,165 --> 00:51:04,005
like you to. Continue with that and pass that to

696
00:51:04,005 --> 00:51:07,805
council. So that's our ask tonight. But to give you

697
00:51:07,805 --> 00:51:10,685
a little history because it's been seven years since we

698
00:51:10,685 --> 00:51:12,685
were here before we're. Going to give you just a

699
00:51:12,685 --> 00:51:14,845
little history of thistle crescent to tell you what's all

700
00:51:14,845 --> 00:51:20,187
about. The lot 2628 is the law in question. Tiffan

701
00:51:20,187 --> 00:51:24,907
Crescent was entrusted in stewardship. By the gateway corporation to

702
00:51:24,907 --> 00:51:29,587
the city of Fort William on December the 23rd, 1955.

703
00:51:32,586 --> 00:51:39,876
For the humble sum of $1. For public purposes. Our

704
00:51:39,876 --> 00:51:43,796
parquet, or green space, was mandated by the construction codes

705
00:51:43,796 --> 00:51:46,476
of the day, and I'm not sure if it's 5%,

706
00:51:46,476 --> 00:51:48,676
but we've been tossing that figure around. Tonight. And it

707
00:51:48,676 --> 00:51:52,428
could possibly be, I don't know. The codes then is

708
00:51:52,428 --> 00:51:55,268
now dictate that a percentage of the subdivision land is

709
00:51:55,268 --> 00:51:57,468
to be set aside as green space as the city

710
00:51:57,468 --> 00:52:00,986
does today. Our parquet has been part of that green

711
00:52:00,986 --> 00:52:03,946
space and an important part of our neighborhood for the

712
00:52:03,946 --> 00:52:08,471
past 69 years. It has served our neighborhood in many

713
00:52:08,471 --> 00:52:12,031
ways over the years, changing and evolving with the needs

714
00:52:12,031 --> 00:52:15,711
of the residents. It has never been just a vacant

715
00:52:15,711 --> 00:52:21,498
lot. Seven years ago. The city questioned our parquet's value

716
00:52:21,498 --> 00:52:24,378
to our neighbors and to the city. The thinking of

717
00:52:24,378 --> 00:52:26,978
the day was to surplus the taut lot as we

718
00:52:26,978 --> 00:52:30,564
knew it. And sell it off to acquire revenue for

719
00:52:30,564 --> 00:52:36,284
the city of Thunder Bay. On October 30, 2017, the

720
00:52:36,284 --> 00:52:39,084
residents of the Thistle Crescent made a deputation to council

721
00:52:39,084 --> 00:52:43,484
of the whole to advocate for our parquet. We presented

722
00:52:43,484 --> 00:52:46,004
our reasons for keeping the parquet much as Thornlewell has.

723
00:52:46,004 --> 00:52:50,200
Done tonight as green space and. After hearing our presentation,

724
00:52:50,200 --> 00:52:54,440
the council voted eleven to one in our favor to

725
00:52:54,440 --> 00:52:59,254
retain the park at his green space. About one year

726
00:52:59,254 --> 00:53:01,574
after that, and I can't be exact. And about that.

727
00:53:03,065 --> 00:53:08,837
The city planted. 20 new trees in that parquet of

728
00:53:08,837 --> 00:53:13,237
various kinds. This action was the first substantial upgrade to

729
00:53:13,237 --> 00:53:18,040
that park camp in 69 years. In addition to that,

730
00:53:18,040 --> 00:53:21,360
last week, two beautiful benches have been delivered to that

731
00:53:21,360 --> 00:53:24,920
parquet. First time. We've ever had any. And guess what?

732
00:53:24,920 --> 00:53:29,441
I sat down there and enjoyed it. When the young

733
00:53:29,441 --> 00:53:33,317
trees mature. Our park had will evolve into a wonderful

734
00:53:33,317 --> 00:53:36,477
place to walk, spend quality time with our family, and

735
00:53:36,477 --> 00:53:40,479
pets. Thistle crest and residents are aware that the federal

736
00:53:40,479 --> 00:53:43,999
government, through the provincial government and the municipalities, have created

737
00:53:43,999 --> 00:53:47,759
a program to build more housing to ease the housing

738
00:53:47,759 --> 00:53:51,719
shortage in Canada. The city's goal of 2200 new homes

739
00:53:51,719 --> 00:53:55,159
by 2031 is ambitious and it will be hard to

740
00:53:55,159 --> 00:54:00,122
achieve. The practice of infill housing on unused tracks of

741
00:54:00,122 --> 00:54:02,602
land in the city to help reach this goal is

742
00:54:02,602 --> 00:54:08,059
innovative and good planning. On the other hand. Cannibalizing the

743
00:54:08,059 --> 00:54:10,979
parquet in the city to achieve this goal is short

744
00:54:10,979 --> 00:54:14,259
sighted and will ultimately degrade our city and lower the

745
00:54:14,259 --> 00:54:18,179
quality of life of the residents. The fact that these

746
00:54:18,179 --> 00:54:22,436
park lands are easy pickings does not mean. The ideal

747
00:54:22,436 --> 00:54:30,685
solution to fulfill. Housing quota. In our opinion, this nearsighted

748
00:54:30,685 --> 00:54:34,205
policy will adversely change the nature of our neighborhood and

749
00:54:34,205 --> 00:54:39,763
our city forever. Finally. We want to leave the council

750
00:54:39,763 --> 00:54:44,566
of the question to ponder. If the city of Thunder

751
00:54:44,566 --> 00:54:49,286
Bay today demands a percentage of green space carboats in

752
00:54:49,286 --> 00:54:55,409
new planned subdivision as a condition of construction. Why is

753
00:54:55,409 --> 00:55:01,529
it acceptable in 2024 to destroy the previous green space

754
00:55:01,529 --> 00:55:06,569
car votes which were condition of construction in legacy subdivisions.

755
00:55:08,599 --> 00:55:12,560
Thank you for hearing our presentation. Thank you for that.

756
00:55:18,899 --> 00:55:21,979
We try to refrain from applause and booing in all

757
00:55:21,979 --> 00:55:24,499
sorts of mode of outbursts in the crowd, so I

758
00:55:24,499 --> 00:55:29,750
hope. You can abide by that. City manager. Gail. You

759
00:55:29,750 --> 00:55:32,190
were motioning to me chair. We'd like to offer a

760
00:55:32,190 --> 00:55:37,722
point. Of clarity. That will help you moving forward. We

761
00:55:37,722 --> 00:55:39,562
need to clear we need to clear something up, and

762
00:55:39,562 --> 00:55:41,122
I. Would like to go to director to pewter for

763
00:55:41,122 --> 00:55:43,442
that chair, Mr. Chair. And that's why I wanted questions

764
00:55:43,442 --> 00:55:46,748
for administration. I guarantee is going to be. In relation

765
00:55:46,748 --> 00:55:50,849
to the Greek. Okay, well, they're stepping in. So accounts

766
00:55:50,849 --> 00:55:53,769
are gratu, if you feel that your question needed to

767
00:55:53,769 --> 00:55:58,175
be asked up front. You can certainly let me know

768
00:55:58,175 --> 00:56:01,772
that I have no problems with that. Just want to

769
00:56:01,772 --> 00:56:03,572
speak briefly to some of these points and questions that

770
00:56:03,572 --> 00:56:13,163
are being raised about the 5% parkland dedication subject. So

771
00:56:13,163 --> 00:56:19,928
it's a case currently. That. In Parkland, or 5% of

772
00:56:19,928 --> 00:56:23,328
the cash equivalent for Parker land, where it's let's say,

773
00:56:23,328 --> 00:56:29,263
for smaller subdivisions where it wouldn't be practical. To. Take

774
00:56:29,263 --> 00:56:34,780
the land itself. Some of these subdivisions. These neighborhoods are

775
00:56:34,780 --> 00:56:37,420
rather old and I can't really speak to exactly. What

776
00:56:37,420 --> 00:56:42,493
the policy framework was at the time. We've noticed just.

777
00:56:44,171 --> 00:56:48,197
Within the files that at times lands were dedicated. For

778
00:56:48,197 --> 00:56:52,423
park purposes. With the intent that they be sold and.

779
00:56:53,873 --> 00:56:59,098
That generated funds for the purpose of Parkland. So this

780
00:56:59,098 --> 00:57:06,478
is embedded within. The Parkland Reserve Fund policy. That indicates

781
00:57:06,478 --> 00:57:08,958
that when Parkland is sold, the proceeds would be used

782
00:57:08,958 --> 00:57:11,598
for the purpose of Parkland. So I just want to

783
00:57:11,598 --> 00:57:15,694
clarify that particularly. I can primarily want to clarify what

784
00:57:15,694 --> 00:57:18,974
the case is today. Right. So today, if a smaller

785
00:57:18,974 --> 00:57:23,574
subdivision is applied for, it's very unlikely that 5% of

786
00:57:23,574 --> 00:57:26,774
the land would be used for parkland. Rather, there would

787
00:57:26,774 --> 00:57:29,654
be a cash in lieu of parkland dedication, and that

788
00:57:29,654 --> 00:57:34,697
would be used for neighborhood parks or similar. Okay. Councilor

789
00:57:34,697 --> 00:57:38,017
Gatuya on this item. Yes, go ahead. So if there

790
00:57:38,017 --> 00:57:41,337
was a new. Smaller subdivision, Mr. Pewter, through you from

791
00:57:41,337 --> 00:57:48,179
the chair. Can you repeat the question? Sorry. Yes, sorry.

792
00:57:48,179 --> 00:57:55,151
So if there was newer, smaller subdivision today. That was

793
00:57:55,151 --> 00:57:58,694
come forward and there was no parks. Within a kilometer

794
00:57:58,694 --> 00:58:03,177
or two. Would that go into the green space? Reserve

795
00:58:03,177 --> 00:58:06,257
fund. Or would it perhaps there be a park there,

796
00:58:06,257 --> 00:58:11,625
a green space there? I'll refer that question to supervisor

797
00:58:11,625 --> 00:58:16,575
shore that's on the line. It's through the chair. It

798
00:58:16,575 --> 00:58:19,535
depends a bit on the context and the exact size.

799
00:58:25,479 --> 00:58:30,165
Of that newer subdivision. If it's really small. And I

800
00:58:30,165 --> 00:58:32,925
don't know what number that might be. Under ten, under

801
00:58:32,925 --> 00:58:38,534
twelve, lots, something like. That. Then the residual 5% is

802
00:58:38,534 --> 00:58:43,438
not small enough to do. Anything useful. In terms of

803
00:58:43,438 --> 00:58:47,878
play equipment or active recreation, so we would take the

804
00:58:47,878 --> 00:58:52,647
cash in lieu. In the case of a smaller subdivision

805
00:58:52,647 --> 00:58:56,567
that was part of a larger plan of subdivision, but

806
00:58:56,567 --> 00:59:01,423
being done in stages. We may take a small lot

807
00:59:01,423 --> 00:59:07,583
in land. In the short term, and then. When. The

808
00:59:07,583 --> 00:59:12,008
larger development is done. Take the 5%, land in a

809
00:59:12,008 --> 00:59:14,808
more central location because that will be a benefit to.

810
00:59:16,345 --> 00:59:19,425
The larger development and give back the single lot again.

811
00:59:19,425 --> 00:59:21,385
We have done that in a place like maple view.

812
00:59:22,948 --> 00:59:26,111
Subdivision, so. There isn't, I think one answer to that

813
00:59:26,111 --> 00:59:31,477
question, it really depends on the exact size. And. The

814
00:59:31,477 --> 00:59:35,137
future plans for that area as well. And does not

815
00:59:35,137 --> 00:59:39,432
distance. Factor into that just to other parks in the

816
00:59:39,432 --> 00:59:42,924
area, would that not factor in as well? Yes, through

817
00:59:42,924 --> 00:59:46,564
the chair. It would. We strive to have a park

818
00:59:46,564 --> 00:59:52,420
land within. Roughly 400 meters of a person. However, if

819
00:59:52,420 --> 00:59:57,157
that land is so small, The 5% is so small

820
00:59:57,157 --> 01:00:00,317
or of a size or shape that really can't be

821
01:00:00,317 --> 01:00:05,501
utilized for active recreation. It is often better to. Take.

822
01:00:06,491 --> 01:00:09,331
The cash in lieu and use that to develop a

823
01:00:09,331 --> 01:00:12,571
park that may not be exactly close by. But the

824
01:00:12,571 --> 01:00:16,024
nearest one to improve that. Thank you. I just wanted

825
01:00:16,024 --> 01:00:19,384
to not wanted that clarified because I spoke to Mr.

826
01:00:19,384 --> 01:00:23,689
Deputor. There, director. Deputy part of me. For the deputation.

827
01:00:23,689 --> 01:00:26,289
Yeah. So we'll go back to the deputy. Sorry about

828
01:00:26,289 --> 01:00:29,849
that. Administration want to hop in with a clarification. Hopefully

829
01:00:29,849 --> 01:00:33,169
that now we can ride through all the deputations before

830
01:00:33,169 --> 01:00:36,655
we go back to admit. But thank you for your

831
01:00:36,655 --> 01:00:40,175
deputation very much. We'll see if there's questions, Councilor Pascalino.

832
01:00:42,234 --> 01:00:45,736
Actually, I had Councilor Gertuka. Was this on what we

833
01:00:45,736 --> 01:00:49,745
just did or on the deputy? Councilor Victor Tucas first.

834
01:00:49,745 --> 01:00:51,945
Thank you. Good. I just missed that. Could you clarify?

835
01:00:53,651 --> 01:00:58,083
The property was donated, you said? The property was turned

836
01:00:58,083 --> 01:01:03,047
over from Gateway. Corporation that built the green Acres area

837
01:01:03,047 --> 01:01:07,056
to the city of Fort William. As maybe a 5%

838
01:01:07,056 --> 01:01:08,896
carve out. I don't really know what the percentage was.

839
01:01:08,896 --> 01:01:11,416
But it was definitely a green space car. Vote for

840
01:01:11,416 --> 01:01:14,296
that subdivision and was turned over for one. Dollars, which

841
01:01:14,296 --> 01:01:16,416
is what they had to do to turn property over.

842
01:01:16,416 --> 01:01:19,256
Even today, you have to spend one dollars. And yes,

843
01:01:19,256 --> 01:01:22,456
it was turned over 1955. Okay. Thank you for that.

844
01:01:24,159 --> 01:01:26,639
Last week, we made a decision to keep these three

845
01:01:26,639 --> 01:01:30,839
parquets in, and we knew all about the housing accelerator

846
01:01:30,839 --> 01:01:33,479
fund. We knew everything. Can you tell me, in your

847
01:01:33,479 --> 01:01:36,999
opinion, has anything changed? Since last week? No. And the

848
01:01:36,999 --> 01:01:39,919
reason we're here tonight, of course, is because of alderman.

849
01:01:39,919 --> 01:01:43,969
Hamilton's motion to actually overturn that decision. So on the

850
01:01:43,969 --> 01:01:47,049
fourth, we were notified that you had pulled our parkets

851
01:01:47,049 --> 01:01:49,649
out, and we were. Quite happy with that decision. But

852
01:01:49,649 --> 01:01:55,222
then we found out about Alderman Hamilton's motion tonight. To

853
01:01:55,222 --> 01:01:57,182
actually amend that decision, if you want to call it

854
01:01:57,182 --> 01:01:59,822
that. So we had to come here. Tonight at least

855
01:01:59,822 --> 01:02:02,382
to speak to you anyway and tell you that we

856
01:02:02,382 --> 01:02:04,782
would like you to go. Back to your original motion,

857
01:02:04,782 --> 01:02:06,702
which was to take the three park s out of

858
01:02:06,702 --> 01:02:09,902
the sale. That's why we're here tonight. Okay. I see

859
01:02:09,902 --> 01:02:13,608
no reason to change my vote, so. Thank you. Yeah.

860
01:02:13,608 --> 01:02:17,688
Just so we all understand how the procedures work here.

861
01:02:17,688 --> 01:02:19,808
When we made that initial decision that was at a

862
01:02:19,808 --> 01:02:24,248
committee meeting and all committee meeting decisions, even though we're

863
01:02:24,248 --> 01:02:26,048
all around the table. Have to come to a city

864
01:02:26,048 --> 01:02:29,850
council meeting where we're all around the table again. So

865
01:02:29,850 --> 01:02:32,850
when they come to city council, any member of council

866
01:02:32,850 --> 01:02:37,170
can look to revoked or re debate. The item, and

867
01:02:37,170 --> 01:02:40,789
that's what's occurring here tonight. Later on. So just you're

868
01:02:40,789 --> 01:02:44,669
aware this will occur at city council much later tonight?

869
01:02:44,669 --> 01:02:47,349
No. We're aware of that. We're just. Because of the

870
01:02:47,349 --> 01:02:51,029
motion. We were notified because. Of Alderman Hamilton's. Okay, just

871
01:02:51,029 --> 01:02:55,731
so everyone's aware of the timing, councilor training. Thank you

872
01:02:55,731 --> 01:02:59,184
through the chair and thank you for your presentation. Were

873
01:02:59,184 --> 01:03:02,224
you aware that Green Acres park fits within that 400

874
01:03:02,224 --> 01:03:08,129
meters radius from this park? No. Okay. Thank you. Councilor

875
01:03:08,129 --> 01:03:14,664
Pascalino. Thank you. Through the chair. I actually grew up

876
01:03:14,664 --> 01:03:17,264
in the area. I lived on Wall street, across from

877
01:03:17,264 --> 01:03:21,464
Linwood Crescent long long time ago, and I was just

878
01:03:21,464 --> 01:03:24,584
wondering if you can. I don't know how long. You've

879
01:03:24,584 --> 01:03:28,740
been there. But when I was there. My parents bought

880
01:03:28,740 --> 01:03:33,299
the house 1968. And I moved out in 1980 when

881
01:03:33,299 --> 01:03:37,179
I bought my own place. So I was wondering how

882
01:03:37,179 --> 01:03:41,619
well are they been used since 1980? For when? I

883
01:03:41,619 --> 01:03:44,379
remember them. I remember you brought up the term. I

884
01:03:44,379 --> 01:03:47,659
think tautlot. That's what they used to. And I would

885
01:03:47,659 --> 01:03:50,859
play at that one. And also on thistle crescent, quite.

886
01:03:51,584 --> 01:03:53,704
Often, so I was just wondering how well they're used.

887
01:03:55,522 --> 01:03:59,042
And. How are the families doing them and how are

888
01:03:59,042 --> 01:04:04,139
they using them? Well, let me answer your question a

889
01:04:04,139 --> 01:04:05,779
little differently, but I'll get to your point in a

890
01:04:05,779 --> 01:04:08,659
minute. First of all, Parkland doesn't have to have a

891
01:04:08,659 --> 01:04:13,364
purpose. It's already purposed as Tark Land. That's its purpose.

892
01:04:15,042 --> 01:04:17,762
But to answer your question, I've been living on thistle

893
01:04:17,762 --> 01:04:21,136
for 67 years. I've been there rather a long time.

894
01:04:22,924 --> 01:04:26,884
And the street started off as wall to wall kids

895
01:04:26,884 --> 01:04:28,924
because it was a brand new subdivision. Well, that has

896
01:04:28,924 --> 01:04:32,828
changed over the years. The people that now live on

897
01:04:32,828 --> 01:04:36,588
Thistle, for the most part, are seniors without children. But

898
01:04:36,588 --> 01:04:39,188
we are getting more families in as the older people

899
01:04:39,188 --> 01:04:42,973
move out with kids. And that park, for the longest

900
01:04:42,973 --> 01:04:47,733
time was not heavily used because the kids were gone.

901
01:04:47,733 --> 01:04:50,653
There was no benches, no trees. It was a flat

902
01:04:50,653 --> 01:04:55,508
piece of land, but now. With the 20 trees and

903
01:04:55,508 --> 01:05:00,135
the two benches. The kids that were before not able

904
01:05:00,135 --> 01:05:02,815
to use the park could now come and use it

905
01:05:02,815 --> 01:05:05,775
and we were getting more families. As you would suspect,

906
01:05:05,775 --> 01:05:08,815
the neighborhood is turning over. It's taken. A long time

907
01:05:08,815 --> 01:05:11,855
because, frankly, people that live on thistle crescent don't want

908
01:05:11,855 --> 01:05:16,531
to leave that's the truth. So that's your answer? It's

909
01:05:16,531 --> 01:05:20,171
being used more. In fact, tonight I saw two. People

910
01:05:20,171 --> 01:05:22,251
walking their dog in there and they were eyeing the

911
01:05:22,251 --> 01:05:25,011
benches and they were saying, I think we should try

912
01:05:25,011 --> 01:05:29,921
one. So I'm happy about that. Thank you for that

913
01:05:29,921 --> 01:05:35,771
answer. Okay, any further questions? Seeing none. Thank you for

914
01:05:35,771 --> 01:05:40,788
coming forward this evening. Thank you. Next deputation, please? Chair.

915
01:05:40,788 --> 01:05:44,148
We received correspondence from David Barrow again requesting an opportunity

916
01:05:44,148 --> 01:05:49,399
to come. Forward. We welcome David to come forward. Welcome,

917
01:05:49,399 --> 01:05:52,039
sir. Thank you. You'll have ten minutes and we'll go

918
01:05:52,039 --> 01:05:56,519
to questions if you're talking on the same topic and

919
01:05:56,519 --> 01:05:59,159
you want to just kind of briefly agree with what

920
01:05:59,159 --> 01:06:02,359
they've said. That's an option as well, but I'll leave

921
01:06:02,359 --> 01:06:11,232
that. Up to you. So your microphone is on, and

922
01:06:11,232 --> 01:06:14,854
the floor is yours. Thank you. My name is Dave

923
01:06:14,854 --> 01:06:19,414
Barrow. I'm here to represent the people in Grandview on

924
01:06:19,414 --> 01:06:22,614
the Woodside park yet. I didn't see it on the

925
01:06:22,614 --> 01:06:25,134
agenda listed as that, but I assume that we're here

926
01:06:25,134 --> 01:06:29,728
to speak about. I attended a quickly arranged neighborhood gathering

927
01:06:29,728 --> 01:06:37,172
at the parquet. Of approximately 50 residents. I agreed, along

928
01:06:37,172 --> 01:06:40,052
with Kevin Green, who is here tonight to speak on

929
01:06:40,052 --> 01:06:42,852
their behalf to stop the sale of the park. This

930
01:06:42,852 --> 01:06:45,732
meeting was attended by a 50 50 mix of long

931
01:06:45,732 --> 01:06:49,132
term residents living near the parquet for over 25 years.

932
01:06:50,483 --> 01:06:53,563
And new family residents. My wife and I, with our

933
01:06:53,563 --> 01:06:56,643
two young children, first moved into grandio back in the

934
01:06:56,643 --> 01:06:59,683
mid 80s, it was our second home as we climbed

935
01:06:59,683 --> 01:07:03,797
the real estate ladder. And shortly after, we had a

936
01:07:03,797 --> 01:07:06,357
third child. And we remained in that home for over

937
01:07:06,357 --> 01:07:09,957
eight years. We enjoyed the area with the school options,

938
01:07:09,957 --> 01:07:12,957
the amenities to Grandview Mall and the wonderful mix of

939
01:07:12,957 --> 01:07:19,224
neighbors. At this time, the residential mix was about 25%

940
01:07:19,224 --> 01:07:23,184
new families, the balance being original owners from the 60s.

941
01:07:24,851 --> 01:07:27,811
While living in ground view. Like many home new home

942
01:07:27,811 --> 01:07:31,771
buyers, we did substantial renovations and additions. My wife and

943
01:07:31,771 --> 01:07:34,331
I enjoy renovating and building, and eventually moved on to

944
01:07:34,331 --> 01:07:39,411
build two more homes in Parkdale and. The second redevelopment

945
01:07:39,411 --> 01:07:43,122
of a property in Oliver Road. Our family was grown,

946
01:07:43,122 --> 01:07:47,522
we decided to retire and dollar size we first choice

947
01:07:47,522 --> 01:07:50,082
after living in various parts of the city was to

948
01:07:50,082 --> 01:07:54,082
move back to Grandview. In September of 2022, we purchased

949
01:07:54,082 --> 01:07:58,442
our current home on 158 Hogarth. As we got reacquainted

950
01:07:58,442 --> 01:08:02,766
with the neighborhood. I noticed the woodside par. Park yet.

951
01:08:02,766 --> 01:08:07,387
I saw a lumpy grass lot that was underutilized. To

952
01:08:07,387 --> 01:08:09,587
build a developer and me thought, I wonder if I

953
01:08:09,587 --> 01:08:13,572
could buy this lot. I could build a retirement home

954
01:08:13,572 --> 01:08:18,949
for my wife and I. A few days later. We

955
01:08:18,949 --> 01:08:23,709
received a letter from the neighborhood indicating an invitation to

956
01:08:23,709 --> 01:08:28,200
meet at the park. So I went to attend for

957
01:08:28,200 --> 01:08:34,931
curiosity, to see what was the conversation going on. At

958
01:08:34,931 --> 01:08:41,681
the meeting, I heard numerous ideas. Of things to do

959
01:08:41,681 --> 01:08:44,641
at the park. There was about a 50 50 mix.

960
01:08:46,085 --> 01:08:53,423
Of original residents and new families. The original demographics. Of

961
01:08:53,423 --> 01:08:58,081
the older couples there talked about raising their families. And

962
01:08:58,081 --> 01:09:01,641
enjoying the park. And it had amenities on it over

963
01:09:01,641 --> 01:09:07,712
the years. The amenities? Slowly disappeared as they became unmaintained

964
01:09:07,712 --> 01:09:11,072
and were abandoned basically by the city and were removed.

965
01:09:12,384 --> 01:09:15,184
One of the parks down the street from us on

966
01:09:15,184 --> 01:09:20,064
Hookarth was redeveloped into a small, younger person park. The

967
01:09:20,064 --> 01:09:25,844
other one, Woodside, was left basically abandoned. Demographics in the

968
01:09:25,844 --> 01:09:29,684
Grandview area changing if I count ten homes around my

969
01:09:29,684 --> 01:09:38,695
home. Approximately 50% are original residents in their. The other

970
01:09:38,695 --> 01:09:43,255
50% are new families with young children or early teens.

971
01:09:43,255 --> 01:09:46,455
If you apply the demographics to the entire subdivision, it

972
01:09:46,455 --> 01:09:49,575
would be conservative to suggest 40% of the homes in

973
01:09:49,575 --> 01:09:51,975
the area. Will change hands in the next five to

974
01:09:51,975 --> 01:09:55,771
ten years. This will bring hundreds of new families and

975
01:09:55,771 --> 01:09:59,934
millions of dollars in renovating, spending. Grandview area is not

976
01:09:59,934 --> 01:10:05,094
a sleepy retirement subdivision. Woodside Firecat is not underutilized it

977
01:10:05,094 --> 01:10:09,414
is underdeveloped. Grandview is a lively, growing neighborhood with new

978
01:10:09,414 --> 01:10:12,814
families and with many more to come. The city has

979
01:10:12,814 --> 01:10:16,934
done well in developing and promoting high rise rental development

980
01:10:16,934 --> 01:10:20,405
throughout the city. In my work as a financial advisor.

981
01:10:20,405 --> 01:10:23,085
Many seniors I worked with spoke of being stuck in

982
01:10:23,085 --> 01:10:27,125
their family homes as there was nowhere suitable and affordable

983
01:10:27,125 --> 01:10:30,885
for them to move. As the city continues to encourage

984
01:10:30,885 --> 01:10:34,085
development, high rise multiples. This will free up hundreds of

985
01:10:34,085 --> 01:10:37,525
homes. In the Grandview area and greatly help the current

986
01:10:37,525 --> 01:10:42,285
housing challenges. If the Grandview subdivision was being built today,

987
01:10:42,285 --> 01:10:44,525
it would have a city and province mandate to provide

988
01:10:44,525 --> 01:10:47,685
park land within it is a large subdivision. It is

989
01:10:47,685 --> 01:10:50,745
not a small one, so. It would have the 5%

990
01:10:50,745 --> 01:10:55,973
land. Dedicated to parkland. To remove parkland from Grand View

991
01:10:55,973 --> 01:10:59,977
subdivision is wrong. It does not make any sense. I

992
01:10:59,977 --> 01:11:03,057
was uninformed when I first looked at that lot and

993
01:11:03,057 --> 01:11:05,777
had dreams of perhaps buying it and building on it

994
01:11:05,777 --> 01:11:10,659
now that I saw. The history design with the land.

995
01:11:12,275 --> 01:11:15,515
And the need in the area and the changing demographics.

996
01:11:15,515 --> 01:11:18,435
I've changed my thoughts. I want to rescind my letter

997
01:11:18,435 --> 01:11:22,593
of support that I sent in, and I think. It's.

998
01:11:22,982 --> 01:11:29,374
Short cited to. Sell public land or parkland. Woodside Parquet

999
01:11:29,374 --> 01:11:35,130
needs to remain and be redeveloped. Our ask today is

1000
01:11:35,130 --> 01:11:37,610
that council delayed the decision on the future of the

1001
01:11:37,610 --> 01:11:41,090
park at for six. Months. This will allow the resident's

1002
01:11:41,090 --> 01:11:44,130
time to meet, assess the needs of the neighborhood, and

1003
01:11:44,130 --> 01:11:48,690
format a plan for a presentation back to city council.

1004
01:11:48,690 --> 01:11:52,968
We believe that with minimum capital and maintenance, cost. The

1005
01:11:52,968 --> 01:11:55,048
parquet would be well served and unmasked to the Grand

1006
01:11:55,048 --> 01:11:58,448
View area. To summarize we request a motion that council

1007
01:11:58,448 --> 01:12:01,008
delay the proposed sale that was site part set for.

1008
01:12:01,008 --> 01:12:05,091
Six months. Thank you. Thank you very much for your

1009
01:12:05,091 --> 01:12:13,822
deputation. Go to questions, Councilor Zizino. Thank you, chair. What's

1010
01:12:13,822 --> 01:12:17,340
your vision for the parquet? Well, we have the one

1011
01:12:17,340 --> 01:12:20,654
park that in the area. Is really a very juvenile

1012
01:12:20,654 --> 01:12:25,929
park. It's designed for probably children up to eight, six.

1013
01:12:25,929 --> 01:12:28,769
So what we see in the neighborhood are lots of

1014
01:12:28,769 --> 01:12:32,049
basketball hoops being pushed out to the street and kids

1015
01:12:32,049 --> 01:12:37,858
playing on the street. Young teens, early teens. So. I

1016
01:12:37,858 --> 01:12:40,098
would think one of the avenues that we would explore

1017
01:12:40,098 --> 01:12:42,858
would be to turn that parquet into a young teen

1018
01:12:42,858 --> 01:12:45,378
parquet, basically, where they would have a space to gather.

1019
01:12:46,973 --> 01:12:49,253
A small basketball court or half court type of thing.

1020
01:12:51,059 --> 01:12:52,699
A small structure to sit under and get out of

1021
01:12:52,699 --> 01:12:55,859
the sun or the rain. And just to congregate, basically.

1022
01:12:55,859 --> 01:13:01,610
So, nothing extravagant? Nothing of $100,000 playground or something? It

1023
01:13:01,610 --> 01:13:03,050
basically just needs to remain a park and a place

1024
01:13:03,050 --> 01:13:05,570
for teens to gather. I think would be one of

1025
01:13:05,570 --> 01:13:09,968
the avenues that we would explore. Okay. Thank you. One

1026
01:13:09,968 --> 01:13:14,255
other question. What are your thoughts on a community garden?

1027
01:13:15,677 --> 01:13:21,848
Certainly. I listen to the details, my concern would be

1028
01:13:21,848 --> 01:13:26,332
the maintenance of it. And the long term appearance of

1029
01:13:26,332 --> 01:13:29,012
the garden. What I've seen around the city, some have.

1030
01:13:29,012 --> 01:13:32,212
Done very well at keeping their volunteer base and maintaining

1031
01:13:32,212 --> 01:13:35,172
them. Others, not so much. So that would be. My

1032
01:13:35,172 --> 01:13:38,674
question is, who's going to maintain it? And what assurances

1033
01:13:38,674 --> 01:13:40,434
are going to be there for so, like, a mixed

1034
01:13:40,434 --> 01:13:45,380
use, perhaps. It doesn't mean that that couldn't be incorporated

1035
01:13:45,380 --> 01:13:48,220
into a teen park or something. Like this. Okay, well,

1036
01:13:48,220 --> 01:13:54,530
thank you very much. Councilor. Thank you. Through the chair.

1037
01:13:54,530 --> 01:13:56,650
According to the information we have, and I kind of

1038
01:13:56,650 --> 01:13:59,690
know the area, a bit. Within a 400 meters radius.

1039
01:13:59,690 --> 01:14:02,690
We have Junott park, which is a very big park.

1040
01:14:02,690 --> 01:14:08,305
Grab you park Holgarth parquet and hinton Parquet. Do you

1041
01:14:08,305 --> 01:14:10,705
see an excess of parquets and parks in this area?

1042
01:14:12,339 --> 01:14:14,019
That's one of the pieces that we look at is

1043
01:14:14,019 --> 01:14:17,059
the number. Again, I think if you go back to

1044
01:14:17,059 --> 01:14:20,019
the 5% of the size of the subdivision, we are

1045
01:14:20,019 --> 01:14:26,203
underserved. By parks, basically. The Hinton parquet has again, nothing

1046
01:14:26,203 --> 01:14:28,603
really on it. It has an old rusting structure. On

1047
01:14:28,603 --> 01:14:35,544
it. The Hinton. The Hogarth parquet is the juvenile park,

1048
01:14:35,544 --> 01:14:38,864
so fits for a very small group of people very

1049
01:14:38,864 --> 01:14:41,944
actively used lots of families down there with young children,

1050
01:14:41,944 --> 01:14:45,624
but is not conducive to young teens and whatnot. The

1051
01:14:45,624 --> 01:14:50,984
Junot barquette is quite a distance. Away and there's conversations

1052
01:14:50,984 --> 01:14:54,261
and. Concerns of safety there. There have been incidents there,

1053
01:14:54,261 --> 01:14:57,701
and people are reluctant to let their children go. Off

1054
01:14:57,701 --> 01:15:01,046
by themselves to that park. Okay. Thank you for that.

1055
01:15:02,574 --> 01:15:05,214
The information that we have on this parquet as well

1056
01:15:05,214 --> 01:15:08,614
is concerns about multi residential housing. Would you like to

1057
01:15:08,614 --> 01:15:11,560
comment to that? I think that's one of the things

1058
01:15:11,560 --> 01:15:15,685
that. What I'm here tonight is no one has much

1059
01:15:15,685 --> 01:15:18,205
information on what is being proposed, so. Then you get

1060
01:15:18,205 --> 01:15:21,085
all this hypothetical talks and all that. In my letter

1061
01:15:21,085 --> 01:15:24,125
that I had supported the sale of the park. It

1062
01:15:24,125 --> 01:15:26,245
was specific that it would be a single family home.

1063
01:15:27,739 --> 01:15:31,059
But now I think it's much more valuable as a

1064
01:15:31,059 --> 01:15:34,019
park, at least to become a city that we are

1065
01:15:34,019 --> 01:15:38,448
giving up on Parkland is a bad direction. I watched

1066
01:15:38,448 --> 01:15:41,088
an article last night on tv about great parks and

1067
01:15:41,088 --> 01:15:44,568
city and the redevelopments of urban spaces and whatnot. So

1068
01:15:44,568 --> 01:15:47,648
I find it totally out of whack that we're considering

1069
01:15:47,648 --> 01:15:51,919
selling Parkland. Thank you. Thank you for that. Seeing no

1070
01:15:51,919 --> 01:15:54,479
further questions. Thank you for coming forward this evening. Thank

1071
01:15:54,479 --> 01:15:59,690
you. Appreciate it. Next deputation. Please. Thank you. Chair. The

1072
01:15:59,690 --> 01:16:03,250
next reputation. We received correspondence from Kevin Green. This was

1073
01:16:03,250 --> 01:16:06,490
dated June 20, requesting to appear before committee.

1074
01:16:13,658 --> 01:16:16,538
Welcome. Well, we asked that your microphone beyond if you're

1075
01:16:16,538 --> 01:16:20,850
speaking. And maybe turn it off if you're not speaking

1076
01:16:20,850 --> 01:16:22,690
and you'll have ten minutes. And we'll go to questions.

1077
01:16:24,785 --> 01:16:28,357
Thank you. I want to thank everybody. For taking the

1078
01:16:28,357 --> 01:16:31,472
time and all the support we have. In the gallery

1079
01:16:31,472 --> 01:16:34,717
today. So I won't take up too much of your

1080
01:16:34,717 --> 01:16:42,892
time, because. We're dave barrow. And our group have come

1081
01:16:42,892 --> 01:16:48,549
together. And are asking. For a six month delay in

1082
01:16:48,549 --> 01:16:53,102
the decision about Woodside park for the same reason. So

1083
01:16:53,102 --> 01:16:55,102
we can have a chance to come together as a

1084
01:16:55,102 --> 01:17:01,004
neighborhood to look at it. We had said the surplus

1085
01:17:01,004 --> 01:17:03,324
land in Thunder Bay is a treasured resource, and it's

1086
01:17:03,324 --> 01:17:08,922
of a vital importance to our community. And the mental

1087
01:17:08,922 --> 01:17:12,418
and physical well being of our children. We strongly urge

1088
01:17:12,418 --> 01:17:15,578
City of Thunder Bay Council to defer the vote on

1089
01:17:15,578 --> 01:17:20,004
selling off this precious surplus land. The opportunity to use

1090
01:17:20,004 --> 01:17:24,623
this land for public amenities should not be lost. We

1091
01:17:24,623 --> 01:17:28,183
call upon our municipal leaders to proprietary long term benefits.

1092
01:17:29,806 --> 01:17:34,028
For our children over short term fiscal gains. Let's please

1093
01:17:34,028 --> 01:17:37,668
take a moment to reassess the potential benefits and implications

1094
01:17:37,668 --> 01:17:41,348
and involve our neighborhood more broadly in a decision making

1095
01:17:41,348 --> 01:17:47,930
process. I. Have about approximately 150 names on a petition

1096
01:17:47,930 --> 01:17:56,424
here. That support. This delay in a decision. We know

1097
01:17:56,424 --> 01:18:02,364
that there's close by parks. But. There's so many benefits

1098
01:18:02,364 --> 01:18:05,804
to leaving it even as a green space for the

1099
01:18:05,804 --> 01:18:10,418
amount of families that have moved into our neighborhood. Similar

1100
01:18:10,418 --> 01:18:15,881
to. What our first gentleman spoke today. And with Ron

1101
01:18:15,881 --> 01:18:20,494
Fort Lance and Dave Barrow, same thing. Our neighborhood has

1102
01:18:20,494 --> 01:18:24,065
gone through. My wife and I have been there for

1103
01:18:24,065 --> 01:18:29,305
24 years now. We moved back from the states. On

1104
01:18:29,305 --> 01:18:32,265
a work assignment, and I came back, and we really

1105
01:18:32,265 --> 01:18:36,305
wanted to live in Grandview because. Of its reputation of

1106
01:18:36,305 --> 01:18:39,265
being a great neighborhood and a great place to raise

1107
01:18:39,265 --> 01:18:44,241
kids. And we've done that successfully, but now. Their kids.

1108
01:18:45,508 --> 01:18:50,031
Want somewhere to play? They're coming back to the community

1109
01:18:50,031 --> 01:18:57,019
and a lot around us. Pat Slavensky, my neighbor. We

1110
01:18:57,019 --> 01:19:00,659
bracket the lot on each side, so we're always watching

1111
01:19:00,659 --> 01:19:03,339
what happens in the park. And that's the big thing.

1112
01:19:04,987 --> 01:19:11,341
Is. The eyes on the park. That the adults around

1113
01:19:11,341 --> 01:19:17,433
the park can give is tremendous. So we used to

1114
01:19:17,433 --> 01:19:20,033
have a rocket ship there that was taken away some

1115
01:19:20,033 --> 01:19:24,191
years ago, but. It was in a state of disrepair.

1116
01:19:25,910 --> 01:19:28,110
And I've rescued more than one kid out of the

1117
01:19:28,110 --> 01:19:32,123
ball of the rocket ship. And because I'm looking, doing

1118
01:19:32,123 --> 01:19:42,092
dishes out my window. Of course, there's many things. I

1119
01:19:42,092 --> 01:19:48,814
can quote. I've got. Four citations that I've learned about

1120
01:19:48,814 --> 01:19:55,116
today. But. What was said by the first three deputies

1121
01:19:55,116 --> 01:20:03,220
here. Is very similar to what. We want. The reason

1122
01:20:03,220 --> 01:20:06,580
we want the delay is that we came together as

1123
01:20:06,580 --> 01:20:10,255
a community. One of the first times that we've all

1124
01:20:10,255 --> 01:20:13,775
been together and we realized how many actual kids there

1125
01:20:13,775 --> 01:20:16,935
are in this neighborhood. Now, we had thought that there

1126
01:20:16,935 --> 01:20:20,335
was a lot of retirees. But there's more kids than

1127
01:20:20,335 --> 01:20:30,019
there is retirees now, so it's fantastic. And. Kenzie Belial,

1128
01:20:30,019 --> 01:20:34,506
who's in the gallery here today, he had recommended. To

1129
01:20:34,506 --> 01:20:42,308
have a community garden. In this lot and. It's a

1130
01:20:42,308 --> 01:20:46,018
great idea. It's something that we need to investigate as

1131
01:20:46,018 --> 01:20:49,980
a community. As a neighborhood. That's what we want, and

1132
01:20:49,980 --> 01:20:55,056
that's what we're requesting. From council. That concludes your deputation.

1133
01:20:55,056 --> 01:21:03,287
Yes. Okay. Thank you. Please. My name is Pat Zelensky.

1134
01:21:03,287 --> 01:21:05,487
I was born in the neighborhood. I grew up there

1135
01:21:05,487 --> 01:21:08,327
as a kid. We use the tot lot every day

1136
01:21:08,327 --> 01:21:11,327
because it was the meeting place after supper. Or in

1137
01:21:11,327 --> 01:21:15,607
the morning. And we played baseball there, soccer there, hockey

1138
01:21:15,607 --> 01:21:18,967
and winter on the little rink. They poured that all

1139
01:21:18,967 --> 01:21:21,581
kind of went away when they took down the. Rocket

1140
01:21:21,581 --> 01:21:25,252
ship with the promise of new equipment. That was over

1141
01:21:25,252 --> 01:21:28,942
20 years ago. And it never materialized. Then they came

1142
01:21:28,942 --> 01:21:33,306
up with the parquet name and. Hurley landscaped a little

1143
01:21:33,306 --> 01:21:35,346
bowl to put a rink in, but it sloped to

1144
01:21:35,346 --> 01:21:37,906
one side most of the water drained out. It would

1145
01:21:37,906 --> 01:21:39,986
take all winter to fill it up. To have an

1146
01:21:39,986 --> 01:21:43,626
actual rink. There was no benches or anything very poorly

1147
01:21:43,626 --> 01:21:46,786
set up for kids to actually go skating. There, so

1148
01:21:46,786 --> 01:21:51,494
it was very underutilized as a ring. But we need

1149
01:21:51,494 --> 01:21:54,134
time to figure out and maybe lobby to get a

1150
01:21:54,134 --> 01:21:57,534
basketball court. Not only would the teenagers be able to

1151
01:21:57,534 --> 01:22:00,679
use it? Us older people who would be able to

1152
01:22:00,679 --> 01:22:03,679
go and shoot some hoops and get some exercise. It

1153
01:22:03,679 --> 01:22:07,054
would be good for a lot of classes. But the

1154
01:22:07,054 --> 01:22:11,014
sale of this 5%, and it's r 5% for our

1155
01:22:11,014 --> 01:22:15,134
neighborhood that. Was set aside when gateway built our development.

1156
01:22:15,134 --> 01:22:20,894
I believe in 65, 64, they set aside 5%. So

1157
01:22:20,894 --> 01:22:22,734
now you have to make a decision on getting rid

1158
01:22:22,734 --> 01:22:26,288
of the 5%. Now, wait a minute. That was mandated

1159
01:22:26,288 --> 01:22:30,583
back then, it's still mandated today. How can you justify

1160
01:22:30,583 --> 01:22:35,192
selling it? When you require the developers to set aside

1161
01:22:35,192 --> 01:22:40,055
5% today. Where's my 5% for my neighborhood? Right now?

1162
01:22:40,055 --> 01:22:42,215
You say it's the park? Down the street. Well, no,

1163
01:22:42,215 --> 01:22:47,932
that's their 5%. So I find a hard time. You

1164
01:22:47,932 --> 01:22:49,932
have to make a decision either way. But how you

1165
01:22:49,932 --> 01:22:53,587
would decide to get rid of my 5%. When you

1166
01:22:53,587 --> 01:22:57,867
demand the developers today to set aside 5%, so can

1167
01:22:57,867 --> 01:23:01,347
they ignore your rule? I think you guys should be

1168
01:23:01,347 --> 01:23:04,808
following your rules before you make a decision. That's all

1169
01:23:04,808 --> 01:23:07,408
I got to say. Thank you. Thank you very much

1170
01:23:07,408 --> 01:23:10,048
for coming forward. We'll see if there's questions from council

1171
01:23:10,048 --> 01:23:15,287
or, I believe councilor Aguilar. Has one. Thank you very

1172
01:23:15,287 --> 01:23:18,127
much. And through the chair. Mr. Green, you made a

1173
01:23:18,127 --> 01:23:22,304
comment? That this was one of the first times in

1174
01:23:22,304 --> 01:23:26,035
a while that you've got that whole community together. And

1175
01:23:26,035 --> 01:23:27,915
you got to see how many kids and how many

1176
01:23:27,915 --> 01:23:34,230
adults. Did you find? If we go back to 2019,

1177
01:23:34,230 --> 01:23:37,910
that you saw more people? There's a big gap in

1178
01:23:37,910 --> 01:23:42,010
between here with Covid-19. Do you find that you've got

1179
01:23:42,010 --> 01:23:45,130
that opportunity now everyone's kind of going, wait. What did

1180
01:23:45,130 --> 01:23:47,610
we have before and what do we have? What can

1181
01:23:47,610 --> 01:23:57,383
we bring back? Yes. Thanks for the question. The park

1182
01:23:57,383 --> 01:24:02,143
has always been used on a steady basis by a

1183
01:24:02,143 --> 01:24:04,223
lot of people, a lot of kids, a lot of

1184
01:24:04,223 --> 01:24:07,023
adults. They'll take their dogs there just to let the

1185
01:24:07,023 --> 01:24:11,027
dog run. Around. On a long leash, mind you.

1186
01:24:18,071 --> 01:24:20,791
The park is not really for one thing. It's for

1187
01:24:20,791 --> 01:24:27,042
multitude of things. But when this happened, We had a

1188
01:24:27,042 --> 01:24:31,012
flyer go around. We had people. Putting pieces of paper.

1189
01:24:32,782 --> 01:24:34,542
In our mailboxes. We'd like to get together as a

1190
01:24:34,542 --> 01:24:38,542
meeting, and we all got together as a neighborhood, which

1191
01:24:38,542 --> 01:24:43,965
was fantastic because. We never did that before. So I

1192
01:24:43,965 --> 01:24:47,325
have to thank this process for getting me to learn

1193
01:24:47,325 --> 01:24:49,245
about my neighbors a little bit. More than I had.

1194
01:24:50,761 --> 01:24:54,848
So. I don't see much difference as it is today.

1195
01:24:54,848 --> 01:25:01,105
As in 2019, per your question. But. It's a constant

1196
01:25:01,105 --> 01:25:04,613
thing. On a Tuesday, it's empty. But the next Tuesday,

1197
01:25:04,613 --> 01:25:07,093
there could be five people in the park. Ten people

1198
01:25:07,093 --> 01:25:12,797
I don't know. I hope that answers your question. Sort

1199
01:25:12,797 --> 01:25:15,757
of, but not fully through the chair. What I was

1200
01:25:15,757 --> 01:25:19,730
asking is. When we have developments, we look at neighborhoods

1201
01:25:19,730 --> 01:25:24,729
and community building. This opportunity created, was it an opportunity

1202
01:25:24,729 --> 01:25:29,792
to create community building, as you mentioned? Your community got

1203
01:25:29,792 --> 01:25:34,760
together. Right to work together. We lost a lot of

1204
01:25:34,760 --> 01:25:41,495
that due to Covid. Do you find it was very

1205
01:25:41,495 --> 01:25:48,013
beneficial to your community? Very much so. Because what we

1206
01:25:48,013 --> 01:25:52,039
see. In the last five years. Maybe three to five

1207
01:25:52,039 --> 01:25:57,658
years. That a lot of families with young children. Three

1208
01:25:57,658 --> 01:26:03,550
or younger have moved into this neighborhood. And because they

1209
01:26:03,550 --> 01:26:05,590
run their family lives and everything else, we don't get

1210
01:26:05,590 --> 01:26:09,875
to see them. Very much. But we got to see

1211
01:26:09,875 --> 01:26:13,209
them in the last two weeks. And they came out

1212
01:26:13,209 --> 01:26:18,858
and. We were all happy to see them. But we

1213
01:26:18,858 --> 01:26:25,329
see that now because. Of this process. But. In 2019.

1214
01:26:26,797 --> 01:26:29,317
It was a little different because there wasn't as many

1215
01:26:29,317 --> 01:26:34,176
young families as there is today. Thank you very much.

1216
01:26:34,176 --> 01:26:39,945
Thank you. Councilor Hamilton. Yeah. Thank you, chair. Well, thanks

1217
01:26:39,945 --> 01:26:43,505
for being here. For sure. It's like takes a bit

1218
01:26:43,505 --> 01:26:45,665
out of your schedule to come and talk to council,

1219
01:26:45,665 --> 01:26:50,361
and I appreciate all the deputations. There's no question about

1220
01:26:50,361 --> 01:26:52,561
the value of the park. But the reason why we're

1221
01:26:52,561 --> 01:26:56,241
here tonight is because of housing, really, ultimately, and housing

1222
01:26:56,241 --> 01:26:58,561
goals. And I'm just wondering if you can just elaborate

1223
01:26:58,561 --> 01:27:01,761
on your experience with the housing crisis and maybe some

1224
01:27:01,761 --> 01:27:06,696
of your struggles in attaining housing. Housing for yourself and

1225
01:27:06,696 --> 01:27:14,784
your family right now. Well. My wife and I moved

1226
01:27:14,784 --> 01:27:21,023
from Ohio back to Thunder Bay. In 2020. Sorry. 2000.

1227
01:27:22,897 --> 01:27:28,018
When we did that. It was sort of difficult to

1228
01:27:28,018 --> 01:27:33,496
find a home. But we really wanted Grandview because of

1229
01:27:33,496 --> 01:27:41,019
its reputation. Today it's a bit different. The housing prices

1230
01:27:41,019 --> 01:27:45,400
have skyrocketed. To buy a used home and to retrofit

1231
01:27:45,400 --> 01:27:49,720
that home. Is even at times more expensive, depending on

1232
01:27:49,720 --> 01:27:53,216
what you need to do. So I'm not sure I'm

1233
01:27:53,216 --> 01:28:00,112
really answering your question. But. The mere fact that. Every

1234
01:28:00,112 --> 01:28:05,936
dollar that we make is stretch so far. Then. Everyone

1235
01:28:05,936 --> 01:28:08,296
at the park for the last two meetings that we've

1236
01:28:08,296 --> 01:28:11,856
had. They all understand why. The city wants to do

1237
01:28:11,856 --> 01:28:16,677
this, and as I do. We understand that we need

1238
01:28:16,677 --> 01:28:23,029
housing. We need more roofs over people's heads. That's the

1239
01:28:23,029 --> 01:28:28,651
reason we're asking for six months. So we can do

1240
01:28:28,651 --> 01:28:31,411
a little bit more homework and some of your homework

1241
01:28:31,411 --> 01:28:35,486
to go and look. At other places. Where these places.

1242
01:28:37,207 --> 01:28:42,041
Could exist for these homes. Okay, I appreciate that answer.

1243
01:28:42,041 --> 01:28:44,401
And through you, chair. I hate to be at peeping

1244
01:28:44,401 --> 01:28:48,341
Tom, but. I'm looking actually on Google Earth and. There

1245
01:28:48,341 --> 01:28:51,100
is a lot of green space aside from. Just in

1246
01:28:51,100 --> 01:28:56,227
people's yards, naturally, and I'm just wondering. What transpires, and

1247
01:28:56,227 --> 01:28:58,827
I honestly, I feel, like, pretty bad. But there's gardens

1248
01:28:58,827 --> 01:29:01,867
there's. Play sets. There's all kinds of amenities in people's

1249
01:29:01,867 --> 01:29:07,928
own yards. So I guess there's no question it's just

1250
01:29:07,928 --> 01:29:13,164
like. There's no question. Can we get to one? There

1251
01:29:13,164 --> 01:29:15,484
does seems to be an abundance of amenities in people's

1252
01:29:15,484 --> 01:29:20,095
personal yards currently. I think as a community, we pride

1253
01:29:20,095 --> 01:29:26,257
ourselves on green space. And people not. Putting giant garages

1254
01:29:26,257 --> 01:29:29,352
in their back of their yard. That there's green space

1255
01:29:29,352 --> 01:29:33,272
for kids to play and come and go. I don't

1256
01:29:33,272 --> 01:29:39,487
know. How many seating that I did in my backyard

1257
01:29:39,487 --> 01:29:42,927
because my kids were always running over by grass. Which

1258
01:29:42,927 --> 01:29:47,155
is fine. But the fact is that my home, I

1259
01:29:47,155 --> 01:29:49,875
don't have a sump pump. And what does that mean?

1260
01:29:52,612 --> 01:29:55,543
What does. So what it means is that the green

1261
01:29:55,543 --> 01:30:01,970
space around homes. As well as that taut lot. Next

1262
01:30:01,970 --> 01:30:05,570
to 166 wood site. It absorbs a lot of water.

1263
01:30:07,172 --> 01:30:12,458
It's green. The grass grows, the dandelions go. And convert

1264
01:30:12,458 --> 01:30:15,858
our nice lawns into a lot of weeds, which is

1265
01:30:15,858 --> 01:30:20,772
fine. But I don't own sump pump, and I've never

1266
01:30:20,772 --> 01:30:23,779
had a flood in. My home. And a lot of

1267
01:30:23,779 --> 01:30:28,149
people can't say that because. In your densification of homes

1268
01:30:28,149 --> 01:30:35,207
and roofs. Over. A space. The green space has to

1269
01:30:35,207 --> 01:30:41,149
absorb. That water. And in our neighborhood it does. And

1270
01:30:41,149 --> 01:30:43,589
I don't own a sump, so I'm. Pretty proud of

1271
01:30:43,589 --> 01:30:50,782
that. Thank you. Further questions of the deputy? Seeing none.

1272
01:30:50,782 --> 01:30:55,099
Thank you both for coming forward tonight. Thank you. And

1273
01:30:55,099 --> 01:30:58,861
we'll go to our next deputation. Thank you. Chair. Our

1274
01:30:58,861 --> 01:31:02,661
next deputy. We received correspondence from KeviN ManN requesting to

1275
01:31:02,661 --> 01:31:11,581
peer this evening. So if deputy man is here,

1276
01:31:13,713 --> 01:31:16,313
It was. Oh, I'm sorry. It's a written deputation. My

1277
01:31:16,313 --> 01:31:22,940
apologies. So. Your counsel has received the written deputation. So

1278
01:31:22,940 --> 01:31:26,055
there is no one here this evening to present. Okay.

1279
01:31:27,384 --> 01:31:30,344
That concludes our deputations. Chair. So we would now, due

1280
01:31:30,344 --> 01:31:32,664
to the change of the order, and the agenda, we

1281
01:31:32,664 --> 01:31:37,738
would be moving to item 8.7. We? Questions of administration.

1282
01:31:37,738 --> 01:31:42,534
Prior councilor Gurtuga, you were first on the list. Thank

1283
01:31:42,534 --> 01:31:46,020
you. Through you, Mr. Chair. How many? Vacant lots. Do

1284
01:31:46,020 --> 01:31:50,886
we have buildable lots in the city? Through subdivision? And.

1285
01:31:51,769 --> 01:31:55,966
Lots. We do not have a figure of the specific

1286
01:31:55,966 --> 01:32:05,522
number of vacant lots that are. In the city. There's

1287
01:32:05,522 --> 01:32:09,962
the housing study that was recently presented to council suggest

1288
01:32:09,962 --> 01:32:16,355
that. There is a good amount of supply. For intensification

1289
01:32:16,355 --> 01:32:18,955
over time. We do not have figure for how many

1290
01:32:18,955 --> 01:32:24,744
vacant properties there are. Right now. Okay. Properties or how

1291
01:32:24,744 --> 01:32:28,624
many new houses would the sale of these three parks

1292
01:32:28,624 --> 01:32:37,427
generate? Through the chair. It does depend somewhat on how

1293
01:32:37,427 --> 01:32:40,947
the proposals that we receive in for specific lots but

1294
01:32:40,947 --> 01:32:43,667
for the eight presented, the total was estimated at about

1295
01:32:43,667 --> 01:32:47,507
45 units. And eyeballing the three brought forward. I would

1296
01:32:47,507 --> 01:32:55,874
say between. 15 and 20, depending on. Okay, so that's

1297
01:32:55,874 --> 01:32:59,914
multi, that's more, that's not single detached. That's fourplex is

1298
01:32:59,914 --> 01:33:04,741
six plexus, perhaps eight plexus. Going on these units? On

1299
01:33:04,741 --> 01:33:11,536
these lots not necessarily conducive to. The current. Atmosphere or

1300
01:33:11,536 --> 01:33:18,837
the current. Look there of that street. Last question. I

1301
01:33:18,837 --> 01:33:23,437
counted on Thornbow. 84 houses and Stratton. Which is in

1302
01:33:23,437 --> 01:33:26,717
between. Thorn low in the middle is over 30, so

1303
01:33:26,717 --> 01:33:34,532
that's. 114 houses, and we heard that. The next green

1304
01:33:34,532 --> 01:33:39,235
space is 1.2 km as a crow flies. So just

1305
01:33:39,235 --> 01:33:42,355
looking. I have it pulled up here as well. It

1306
01:33:42,355 --> 01:33:47,115
looks like this thornlow, at least, is servicing probably 500

1307
01:33:47,115 --> 01:33:52,679
households. Is that correct? I guess that's not fair because

1308
01:33:52,679 --> 01:33:53,799
you don't have a map in front of you. But

1309
01:33:53,799 --> 01:33:58,479
anyways, I've counted over 84 outdoor and 30 on trashet,

1310
01:33:58,479 --> 01:34:06,575
and we heard from. Manager. Sure as manager shore. I

1311
01:34:06,575 --> 01:34:11,706
think it's a magic shore. That we wouldn't pretend. Units,

1312
01:34:11,706 --> 01:34:13,746
but in a new subdivision. But I'm sure in a

1313
01:34:13,746 --> 01:34:17,233
new subdivision. Of over 100 units, we'd have at least

1314
01:34:17,233 --> 01:34:21,388
a little park space for them to this. Date. Through

1315
01:34:21,388 --> 01:34:29,245
the chair. If it's proper, solicit to the clerk. We

1316
01:34:29,245 --> 01:34:34,852
can share maps. That show. The buffer that surrounds existing

1317
01:34:34,852 --> 01:34:40,877
parkland and how it affects these properties. Anyway. I just

1318
01:34:40,877 --> 01:34:43,317
did the math here quickly, and from what Mr. Schwartz

1319
01:34:43,317 --> 01:34:47,517
said earlier, that it sounds like a subdivision of this

1320
01:34:47,517 --> 01:34:51,450
magnitude. Hundreds of houses in the area. Would at least

1321
01:34:51,450 --> 01:34:55,372
have a little parquet or green space. The service objective

1322
01:34:55,372 --> 01:34:59,132
that was applied to identify these lands for a potential

1323
01:34:59,132 --> 01:35:08,567
surplus was that. Most residents be serviced within 400 meters

1324
01:35:08,567 --> 01:35:14,546
of parkland. So we do have maps available that show

1325
01:35:14,546 --> 01:35:17,186
how that objective is met, if that's helpful. To council.

1326
01:35:17,186 --> 01:35:22,066
Okay. We heard 1.2 km today from the deputation anyways.

1327
01:35:24,038 --> 01:35:28,654
Later on, I won't support. Selling these slots. Thank you.

1328
01:35:29,258 --> 01:35:33,538
Councilor Trini. Thank you. Through the chair, we've heard language

1329
01:35:33,538 --> 01:35:39,598
like untouchable. Areas. How did administration pick the surplus lands?

1330
01:35:39,598 --> 01:35:44,427
The 40 surplus lands that will be coming forward. Through

1331
01:35:44,427 --> 01:35:48,227
the chair, a multidisciplinary team was established to review city

1332
01:35:48,227 --> 01:35:51,627
owned land. It certainly wasn't an exhaustive search, but we

1333
01:35:51,627 --> 01:35:58,971
paid close attention to vacant lands. Parking lots and parkland

1334
01:35:58,971 --> 01:36:03,171
as directed by council last year. In that review, we

1335
01:36:03,171 --> 01:36:07,703
primarily looked. For infill lots, meaning lots on existing servicing

1336
01:36:07,703 --> 01:36:12,769
and existing neighborhoods that could support housing. And we compiled

1337
01:36:12,769 --> 01:36:15,169
that list and brought it into three categories for council.

1338
01:36:17,159 --> 01:36:19,799
So that list is comprised of city owned land, vacant

1339
01:36:19,799 --> 01:36:22,759
land and parkland, and we separated those. As I said,

1340
01:36:22,759 --> 01:36:25,319
into three categories, the ones that were most easily brought

1341
01:36:25,319 --> 01:36:27,959
to market for the purpose of housing and then others

1342
01:36:27,959 --> 01:36:29,479
that required a little bit of work to get them

1343
01:36:29,479 --> 01:36:31,239
to market and others that were the long term plan.

1344
01:36:32,578 --> 01:36:35,138
And the ones recommended. The eight brought to council on

1345
01:36:35,138 --> 01:36:37,698
June 3 are among the first lists the ones that

1346
01:36:37,698 --> 01:36:41,455
are most easily brought to market to support housing. Thank

1347
01:36:41,455 --> 01:36:42,975
you for that whole summer. Sorry. If I could just

1348
01:36:42,975 --> 01:36:45,701
add. I just want to do a point. To clarify

1349
01:36:45,701 --> 01:36:49,782
something earlier. Just the eight properties that we're talking about

1350
01:36:49,782 --> 01:36:53,822
today. They could accommodate up to six units. Not eight.

1351
01:36:53,822 --> 01:36:59,610
Up to six. Thank you for clarifying that. My next

1352
01:36:59,610 --> 01:37:02,290
question. Could the money from the thorn little parquet sale

1353
01:37:02,290 --> 01:37:04,410
be used to fix the thornlow park to make it

1354
01:37:04,410 --> 01:37:06,530
flat and more even, so that it was more of

1355
01:37:06,530 --> 01:37:10,530
a usable park. As mentioned by one of the deputies.

1356
01:37:10,530 --> 01:37:14,050
Yes. We'll refer this question to supervisor Shore. Who's online.

1357
01:37:15,825 --> 01:37:22,653
Through the chair. I would have to look at that

1358
01:37:22,653 --> 01:37:26,413
closer, but that would be a possibility, yes. And I

1359
01:37:26,413 --> 01:37:31,525
may also point out that. There is existing field space

1360
01:37:31,525 --> 01:37:35,480
between. The existing houses on Thornle and the Neebing river.

1361
01:37:35,480 --> 01:37:38,640
There is quite a bit of open green space to

1362
01:37:38,640 --> 01:37:44,135
play. In close proximity to that area as well. So

1363
01:37:44,135 --> 01:37:46,831
that would be looked at at the same time. Thank

1364
01:37:46,831 --> 01:37:49,151
you. That's what I saw as well. Thank you for

1365
01:37:49,151 --> 01:37:55,403
those answers. Mayor Boshkoff. Thank you, chair at one time.

1366
01:37:58,387 --> 01:38:01,747
Thunder Bay was rated number one for a percentage of

1367
01:38:01,747 --> 01:38:09,037
parks and parkland in Canada. Out of 5200 municipalities. Where

1368
01:38:09,037 --> 01:38:17,466
are we now? With our ratio. Of parks. To population.

1369
01:38:17,774 --> 01:38:22,854
We had. Supervisor Shore has this information. Yes. So it

1370
01:38:22,854 --> 01:38:30,085
depends on. What type of park land in the 2017.

1371
01:38:31,518 --> 01:38:36,438
Yardstick study. That was the last benchmarking we participated in.

1372
01:38:38,177 --> 01:38:44,481
We were second in terms of overall parkland. And. They

1373
01:38:44,481 --> 01:38:49,522
divided out into overall Parkland, and then. Into maintained parkland.

1374
01:38:49,522 --> 01:38:51,842
So we were somewhat lower on the list on that.

1375
01:38:51,842 --> 01:38:56,551
And I can't. Remember the exact number on that. I

1376
01:38:56,551 --> 01:39:00,751
believe. Remember that the average parkland per thousand was 3.5

1377
01:39:00,751 --> 01:39:07,294
and in maintain parkland. We were at 2.8. Sorry, could

1378
01:39:07,294 --> 01:39:11,174
you elaborate on that? 2.8 versus 3.5. Again, a little

1379
01:39:11,174 --> 01:39:16,658
bit clear. Because we just had a bit of. Noise?

1380
01:39:16,658 --> 01:39:21,025
Sure. So, through the chair. The benchmark study divided the

1381
01:39:21,025 --> 01:39:26,793
parkland into overall parkland and into maintained parkland. So. That

1382
01:39:26,793 --> 01:39:29,433
would be more what people would consider active Parkland, where

1383
01:39:29,433 --> 01:39:33,627
it's either mode or there's infrastructure on it. And the

1384
01:39:33,627 --> 01:39:38,506
average. Of the municipalities that participated in the study. Was

1385
01:39:38,506 --> 01:39:48,011
3.8. Population. Our number at that time was 2.8. Population.

1386
01:39:49,467 --> 01:39:57,502
We're not sufficient in terms of. So what is the

1387
01:39:57,502 --> 01:40:03,378
difference? That. Puts us 0.7 behind or below average is

1388
01:40:03,378 --> 01:40:06,146
what I'm getting at. Yes. So that does not mean.

1389
01:40:07,647 --> 01:40:11,207
We're in physician and Parkland, it means that slightly less

1390
01:40:11,207 --> 01:40:16,228
than the average of the participants. In actively maintain parkland.

1391
01:40:18,180 --> 01:40:25,129
Thank you very much. Councilor chunk. Thank you. Chair. Chair.

1392
01:40:25,129 --> 01:40:28,166
What I would like to know. I know this came

1393
01:40:28,166 --> 01:40:32,582
forward. As a way to find these lands for infill.

1394
01:40:35,179 --> 01:40:40,237
But I am quite concerned that. The parquets and parks

1395
01:40:40,237 --> 01:40:43,639
are quite well loved and well used. This has come,

1396
01:40:43,639 --> 01:40:46,119
I think, on every term of my council, these parquettes,

1397
01:40:46,119 --> 01:40:49,135
and each time. It's been turned down. I don't see

1398
01:40:49,135 --> 01:40:51,655
the appetite changing in the community. But what I would

1399
01:40:51,655 --> 01:40:54,415
like to know chair is. Where's the list of serviceable

1400
01:40:54,415 --> 01:40:57,055
lens that are not parquet and when? Can we expect

1401
01:40:57,055 --> 01:40:59,655
that to come to council? Because I think in my

1402
01:40:59,655 --> 01:41:04,697
mind, This is too soon to bring this forward. We

1403
01:41:04,697 --> 01:41:08,937
just had struck the mayor's task force for the housing

1404
01:41:08,937 --> 01:41:12,657
advisory. I'd like to see what their opinion is. Because

1405
01:41:12,657 --> 01:41:15,617
maybe these lands aren't really what they're. Looking to develop.

1406
01:41:16,983 --> 01:41:19,143
So, like, some commentary on that? I'd be interested in

1407
01:41:19,143 --> 01:41:23,383
other lands that might be equally. Controversial, but not necessarily

1408
01:41:23,383 --> 01:41:25,497
parks. Chair.

1409
01:41:34,324 --> 01:41:37,524
Through the chair administration of its green council, a range

1410
01:41:37,524 --> 01:41:45,903
of. Plans for potential. For potential surplus. This group of

1411
01:41:45,903 --> 01:41:49,703
properties that we're discussing now is the second batch of

1412
01:41:49,703 --> 01:41:56,534
property. So. The first batch of properties. Did not include

1413
01:41:56,534 --> 01:41:59,974
park land and were street ends. So I think we've

1414
01:41:59,974 --> 01:42:02,614
gone through, we have gotten through most of the lands

1415
01:42:02,614 --> 01:42:06,385
that are not arc land in terms of numbers. And

1416
01:42:06,385 --> 01:42:09,265
just prior to passing over to manager Walker to provide

1417
01:42:09,265 --> 01:42:13,666
some additional detail to that answer. The merits task force.

1418
01:42:15,512 --> 01:42:20,704
Did discuss this issue and pass the resolution supporting. The

1419
01:42:20,704 --> 01:42:26,313
recommending to council that all eight properties be surplused. Over

1420
01:42:26,313 --> 01:42:30,849
to manager Walker. Thank you. Through the chair. In addition

1421
01:42:30,849 --> 01:42:35,001
to what director deputy had suggested, We did bring ten

1422
01:42:35,001 --> 01:42:38,401
properties that were not parkland to council in February. We

1423
01:42:38,401 --> 01:42:40,721
are working, diligently. To bring those to market. In fact,

1424
01:42:40,721 --> 01:42:44,361
I believe the bylaws closing those street ends. The majority

1425
01:42:44,361 --> 01:42:46,841
of those properties are street ends. Closing those street lands

1426
01:42:46,841 --> 01:42:51,200
will be before council. This evening and. We are very

1427
01:42:51,200 --> 01:42:54,760
close to finalizing our agreement framework and scoring matrix to

1428
01:42:54,760 --> 01:43:00,134
receive proposals on those properties. These parquets, as well as

1429
01:43:00,134 --> 01:43:01,774
the other lands brought forward on that list of eight

1430
01:43:01,774 --> 01:43:05,752
in our second batch. And I believe there's one or

1431
01:43:05,752 --> 01:43:11,621
two that are in addition to that. We're all in

1432
01:43:11,621 --> 01:43:14,701
the schedule a properties presented to council in the fall.

1433
01:43:15,987 --> 01:43:19,187
And those, again, were the properties identified as most readily

1434
01:43:19,187 --> 01:43:22,347
available to bring to market. All things considered. Being the

1435
01:43:22,347 --> 01:43:28,349
servicing. Park service objectives. And those were included in our

1436
01:43:28,349 --> 01:43:32,760
review. There are additional properties on the schedule B list

1437
01:43:32,760 --> 01:43:36,175
which we've been working through as well. To work out

1438
01:43:36,175 --> 01:43:38,735
some of the issues with those properties. A few of

1439
01:43:38,735 --> 01:43:42,651
those. Are not classified as any type of green space,

1440
01:43:42,651 --> 01:43:46,920
but many of them are. Chair. I guess my concern

1441
01:43:46,920 --> 01:43:52,601
is that. Well, I appreciate that. These lots take time

1442
01:43:52,601 --> 01:43:56,761
to parcel together and bring to council, but I feel

1443
01:43:56,761 --> 01:43:59,841
like we are doing this in sections, and I really

1444
01:43:59,841 --> 01:44:02,764
don't know. What the future lists are going to look

1445
01:44:02,764 --> 01:44:05,964
like. Is there a big plot of land that might

1446
01:44:05,964 --> 01:44:10,352
be treed, for example. That can satisfy our building requirements.

1447
01:44:12,342 --> 01:44:15,058
I don't know this, and right now. I don't really

1448
01:44:15,058 --> 01:44:19,578
think it's fair for me to sell off the Parklands.

1449
01:44:22,056 --> 01:44:24,256
In these smaller subdivisions that are well loved and well

1450
01:44:24,256 --> 01:44:27,867
used. Because I really don't know. I mean, the question

1451
01:44:27,867 --> 01:44:30,547
was asked earlier, how many lots we have in Thunder

1452
01:44:30,547 --> 01:44:34,198
bay. And, well, a member of administration sent an email

1453
01:44:34,198 --> 01:44:38,851
saying there was 700 tonight. The answer. Is there could

1454
01:44:38,851 --> 01:44:42,811
be a number of them. So I'm really confused how

1455
01:44:42,811 --> 01:44:45,171
much property we actually have. I want to see a

1456
01:44:45,171 --> 01:44:48,114
full list. I don't want to be having a big

1457
01:44:48,114 --> 01:44:52,125
fight with constituents each time. And I'd rather see it

1458
01:44:52,125 --> 01:44:55,445
prioritized. And I'm sorry if it actually. Exists, and I'm

1459
01:44:55,445 --> 01:44:59,445
just not seeing it. But. I would rather see a

1460
01:44:59,445 --> 01:45:02,445
big list. And I get why administration is piecing it

1461
01:45:02,445 --> 01:45:05,546
out like this. But I just don't see it. Chair.

1462
01:45:05,546 --> 01:45:08,346
So I won't be supporting selling off. The parks and

1463
01:45:08,346 --> 01:45:15,379
parklands. Although I understand the value. And I think we

1464
01:45:15,379 --> 01:45:18,819
can meet our target goals with the numbers that have

1465
01:45:18,819 --> 01:45:25,206
already been told. So. Thank you, chair. Councilor Pascalino. Thank

1466
01:45:25,206 --> 01:45:28,926
you very much. And through the chair, my question is.

1467
01:45:31,052 --> 01:45:37,071
That. It appears to me that. Green space. Has become.

1468
01:45:38,162 --> 01:45:42,747
Less important. Like. These spaces that they were talking about.

1469
01:45:42,747 --> 01:45:46,667
The 5% was back in 1955 to 1972. Those are

1470
01:45:46,667 --> 01:45:48,587
the dates that were brought up over at the time.

1471
01:45:50,542 --> 01:45:53,462
Why does it seem to be less important? I mean,

1472
01:45:53,462 --> 01:45:57,711
I lived through, well, most of those years. I was

1473
01:45:57,711 --> 01:46:00,551
born in 58. I remember burning barrels in the backyard.

1474
01:46:02,217 --> 01:46:06,577
Cars had big engines. They weren't an environmentally friendly time.

1475
01:46:06,577 --> 01:46:11,817
In the times between 1955 and 1972. Why is it

1476
01:46:11,817 --> 01:46:14,977
with all the environmental things that we're doing, we're going

1477
01:46:14,977 --> 01:46:18,651
to zero net and all these other things. That now.

1478
01:46:20,119 --> 01:46:24,379
This. Things that have been there forever. Are being considered

1479
01:46:24,379 --> 01:46:26,779
for sale. You have to realize, every one of these

1480
01:46:26,779 --> 01:46:32,539
mayors represented a city council. That's since 1970. And nobody

1481
01:46:32,539 --> 01:46:35,699
decided at that time that these parks would come up

1482
01:46:35,699 --> 01:46:40,770
for sale. Chair. I'd like to jump in here and

1483
01:46:40,770 --> 01:46:45,330
director to Pewter may want to respond. Directly to councilor

1484
01:46:45,330 --> 01:46:47,410
Pascalino, but I'm going to make some general comments, and

1485
01:46:47,410 --> 01:46:50,650
I hope you'll find helpful. And also in response to

1486
01:46:50,650 --> 01:46:53,370
councilor Chung and other discussion that's been happening around the

1487
01:46:53,370 --> 01:46:58,650
table just to bring us back a bit. You've made

1488
01:46:58,650 --> 01:47:02,770
this decision already. You've decided to sell these surplus lands

1489
01:47:02,770 --> 01:47:05,530
now. Councilor. Bentz. The chair said it nicely. There's a

1490
01:47:05,530 --> 01:47:08,010
process here, and when it goes to council, you are

1491
01:47:08,010 --> 01:47:12,668
absolutely able to reconserve that decision. But recall that you've

1492
01:47:12,668 --> 01:47:16,708
already made this decision and you've already had significant debate.

1493
01:47:16,708 --> 01:47:21,828
On this matter. The decision was based. To surplus these

1494
01:47:21,828 --> 01:47:27,275
lands, including the Parklands. Are directly consistent with your strategic

1495
01:47:27,275 --> 01:47:31,988
plan. And several other strategies and plans that have already

1496
01:47:31,988 --> 01:47:36,788
been adopted by council, including getting more homes in our

1497
01:47:36,788 --> 01:47:41,111
city. These strategic goals include the planning and delivery of

1498
01:47:41,111 --> 01:47:46,271
cost effective services supporting urban density and growth, and responding

1499
01:47:46,271 --> 01:47:51,976
to climate emergency. Chair. What I want committee to know

1500
01:47:51,976 --> 01:47:55,668
is that. You have already directed us to do this.

1501
01:47:55,668 --> 01:48:00,054
You've debated these matters already. The priority of the Surplus

1502
01:48:00,054 --> 01:48:04,359
Lands Review was a financial benefit to the corporation. You

1503
01:48:04,359 --> 01:48:10,847
gave us direction. You expect results? The next round of

1504
01:48:10,847 --> 01:48:14,167
lands that are coming are more difficult than this round.

1505
01:48:16,311 --> 01:48:18,951
It will be tougher for you to make these decisions

1506
01:48:18,951 --> 01:48:24,130
downstream. The decision you make today in council later tonight

1507
01:48:24,130 --> 01:48:27,770
is very important and will affect how we move. Forward

1508
01:48:27,770 --> 01:48:34,103
on these matters. This decision will impact progress towards housing

1509
01:48:34,103 --> 01:48:39,383
targets. Council, you have administration's advice. And that advice? Is

1510
01:48:39,383 --> 01:48:42,983
consistent with direction that you've given to us, specifically through

1511
01:48:42,983 --> 01:48:47,023
resolution and through strategic plans. And the housing accelerator planning

1512
01:48:47,023 --> 01:48:50,103
and the mayor's task force on housing. I look to

1513
01:48:50,103 --> 01:48:52,119
director to pewter chair through. You, if that's okay. If

1514
01:48:52,119 --> 01:48:57,265
he wishes to make any further comments. To add some

1515
01:48:57,265 --> 01:49:03,304
additional detail. To. The direction that's been given through the

1516
01:49:03,304 --> 01:49:08,208
surplus process. So council did initially receive a list of

1517
01:49:08,208 --> 01:49:13,728
all 40 properties that. Were being considered for surplus. That

1518
01:49:13,728 --> 01:49:20,831
list was considered in closed session. It participated in separating

1519
01:49:20,831 --> 01:49:24,671
these properties into batches and directed that we bring the

1520
01:49:24,671 --> 01:49:29,071
schedule a lands. Which these are included first, prior to

1521
01:49:29,071 --> 01:49:33,024
some of these larger properties that are more complicated. And

1522
01:49:33,024 --> 01:49:37,778
require more time and work. To unlock lands for housing

1523
01:49:37,778 --> 01:49:42,378
is a fundamental pillar of the housing accelerator strategy to

1524
01:49:42,378 --> 01:49:46,418
make lands available. For housing each year during this very

1525
01:49:46,418 --> 01:49:55,746
compressed window between 2024 and 2027. So there was an

1526
01:49:55,746 --> 01:49:59,186
open session component as well. All 40 properties were not

1527
01:49:59,186 --> 01:50:02,306
listed to the public. However, there was a process memo

1528
01:50:02,306 --> 01:50:06,346
that did go to open session and reiterated this approach.

1529
01:50:06,346 --> 01:50:09,066
That council had directed that these properties be brought forward

1530
01:50:09,066 --> 01:50:13,346
in batches, largely based on complexity and time to market.

1531
01:50:14,631 --> 01:50:19,674
So we hear from the development community. We hear enthusiasm.

1532
01:50:19,674 --> 01:50:24,537
We also hear that. It is difficult to find these

1533
01:50:24,537 --> 01:50:30,245
infill properties that can support. More dense housing, and for

1534
01:50:30,245 --> 01:50:39,111
that reason, these properties are a priority. I. Appreciate.

1535
01:50:40,389 --> 01:50:45,375
City manager Norm Gail's answer. He's corrected that. I just

1536
01:50:45,375 --> 01:50:48,947
like to say that. It was the majority of city

1537
01:50:48,947 --> 01:50:51,987
council. Not everyone on city council. So it would be

1538
01:50:51,987 --> 01:50:55,467
fair. I guess that question could be shut back to

1539
01:50:55,467 --> 01:51:02,957
city council itself. Thank you. Councilor hamilton. Yeah. Thank you,

1540
01:51:02,957 --> 01:51:07,517
chair Benz. So I guess a question for manager Schwar.

1541
01:51:07,517 --> 01:51:10,437
How did the park gets in question because there's other

1542
01:51:10,437 --> 01:51:12,237
park ets throughout the city that are not on the

1543
01:51:12,237 --> 01:51:15,637
list? How do the ones in question end up on

1544
01:51:15,637 --> 01:51:18,630
the list? And how did we evaluate. Why they're there.

1545
01:51:21,459 --> 01:51:24,939
We looked at it in different ways. So the first

1546
01:51:24,939 --> 01:51:31,578
one was that in general, There were other park facilities

1547
01:51:31,578 --> 01:51:36,622
in the neighborhood. It doesn't always work quite cleanly with

1548
01:51:36,622 --> 01:51:41,191
that 400 meters general guideline. But sometimes it's a bit

1549
01:51:41,191 --> 01:51:45,000
more. Sometimes it's a bit less. And then we also

1550
01:51:45,000 --> 01:51:50,400
looked at what investments we had in the park. So

1551
01:51:50,400 --> 01:51:56,238
if there were. Any hard infrastructure, such as playgrounds, that

1552
01:51:56,238 --> 01:52:00,911
sort of sports fields, court amenities. They were automatically taken

1553
01:52:00,911 --> 01:52:06,302
off the list and things. Like, perhaps, like in the

1554
01:52:06,302 --> 01:52:09,782
case of Holly and Thessal, we're tree planting. What? Had

1555
01:52:09,782 --> 01:52:13,262
taken place. We looked at those, and the opportunity, if

1556
01:52:13,262 --> 01:52:18,141
there was. To transplant those if they would be. If

1557
01:52:18,141 --> 01:52:22,961
it was surplus. So it was more looking at. What

1558
01:52:22,961 --> 01:52:26,676
infrastructure we did or did not have. In the parquet.

1559
01:52:28,146 --> 01:52:30,746
Okay, so thanks for that. And just while the deputies

1560
01:52:30,746 --> 01:52:32,306
are here and there's so many people in the gallery

1561
01:52:32,306 --> 01:52:35,146
and supportive, and I know I'm kind of in the

1562
01:52:35,146 --> 01:52:37,426
hot spot. Right now, and I'm not coming for your

1563
01:52:37,426 --> 01:52:41,879
parks. That's not the case, however. There's a lot on

1564
01:52:41,879 --> 01:52:44,919
the line here. Right. My guess is through you, chair

1565
01:52:44,919 --> 01:52:48,407
is that. A lot of people own homes. They're not

1566
01:52:48,407 --> 01:52:50,407
aware of the housing crisis, so it affects each and

1567
01:52:50,407 --> 01:52:52,647
every one of us differently, and indeed everyone here on

1568
01:52:52,647 --> 01:52:56,447
council. So to that end, I would ask that these

1569
01:52:56,447 --> 01:52:58,767
three years are important. So I just want to ask

1570
01:52:58,767 --> 01:53:02,007
through you, chair, just on. What's on the line? We

1571
01:53:02,007 --> 01:53:05,527
got an allocation of almost $21 million through the half,

1572
01:53:05,527 --> 01:53:07,907
potentially 5 million through the building homes. Faster through the

1573
01:53:07,907 --> 01:53:12,994
province. We have housing targets set. So what's on the

1574
01:53:12,994 --> 01:53:15,034
line financially for the city? It's under bay. If we.

1575
01:53:15,034 --> 01:53:24,184
Fail to reach those targets. So the housing accelerator.

1576
01:53:25,716 --> 01:53:29,436
Agreement includes that should the targets be met in 2017,

1577
01:53:29,436 --> 01:53:33,876
an additional $5 million would be awarded which could be

1578
01:53:33,876 --> 01:53:38,516
used for eligible expenses and offset various cost of various

1579
01:53:38,516 --> 01:53:44,520
projects. Beyond that. The land sale revenue associated with these

1580
01:53:44,520 --> 01:53:50,020
eight properties. Would be approximately $1.5 million. The land sale

1581
01:53:50,020 --> 01:53:54,555
revenue associated with all 40 properties. Would be several million

1582
01:53:54,555 --> 01:54:00,018
dollars. There is an ongoing tax benefit. So with respect

1583
01:54:00,018 --> 01:54:05,945
to these eight properties, that's estimated at $120,000 annually. And

1584
01:54:05,945 --> 01:54:09,345
that would be achieved with the municipality taking on no

1585
01:54:09,345 --> 01:54:15,806
additional costs, no additional. Driven by no additional infrastructure. There

1586
01:54:15,806 --> 01:54:22,303
are also financial benefits to meeting the province's targets. So.

1587
01:54:25,474 --> 01:54:27,971
The amount. Which is approximately $1 million per year in

1588
01:54:27,971 --> 01:54:30,571
funding. Should the city be able to meet those targets.

1589
01:54:32,044 --> 01:54:35,953
Chair. And I do have one more question. I knew

1590
01:54:35,953 --> 01:54:38,353
there was going to be headwinds. It's not easy. This

1591
01:54:38,353 --> 01:54:42,153
has changed. This is definitely swimming against the status quo.

1592
01:54:42,153 --> 01:54:44,473
But I produced this motion anyway in a really thoughtful

1593
01:54:44,473 --> 01:54:46,553
way, given some of the points that we heard now

1594
01:54:46,553 --> 01:54:51,633
about asset management revenue and reaching critical housing targets. That

1595
01:54:51,633 --> 01:54:53,713
may be some accounts, if they own their own homes,

1596
01:54:53,713 --> 01:54:57,887
are not aware of. Acutely, like some of us are.

1597
01:54:57,887 --> 01:55:02,212
My last question through you, chair. Is on what's next

1598
01:55:02,212 --> 01:55:04,572
right for surplus lands, because even some of the deputies

1599
01:55:04,572 --> 01:55:10,471
here, they're very mindful of their parks. These community spaces,

1600
01:55:10,471 --> 01:55:13,765
there's value. I certainly recognize the value. I used to

1601
01:55:13,765 --> 01:55:18,450
live at 647 thistles, my first house. In 1993, I

1602
01:55:18,450 --> 01:55:23,900
think. But anyway, so what is next? Because. If we

1603
01:55:23,900 --> 01:55:26,420
exclude these from the list, they're not coming back. Are

1604
01:55:26,420 --> 01:55:28,460
we going to have to dig deeper into forest lands.

1605
01:55:28,460 --> 01:55:30,540
We're talking a lot about green space. We're talking about?

1606
01:55:31,772 --> 01:55:36,610
Wilderness territory. What's next? You said it's not going to

1607
01:55:36,610 --> 01:55:38,570
be easy. If you could just. Put a finer point

1608
01:55:38,570 --> 01:55:42,011
to that. That might be helpful. All of these lands

1609
01:55:42,011 --> 01:55:50,728
are important to meet the housing target. So many of

1610
01:55:50,728 --> 01:55:56,832
the first. The schedule a properties. Are of smaller scale

1611
01:55:56,832 --> 01:56:03,316
and would support that six unit. Range of development. There

1612
01:56:03,316 --> 01:56:07,036
are additional properties that are coming forward that may support

1613
01:56:07,036 --> 01:56:13,263
multiple. Larger forms of development, however. Our targets are so

1614
01:56:13,263 --> 01:56:17,823
ambitious that it requires all sectors to be running full

1615
01:56:17,823 --> 01:56:21,023
steam. So it is. Different developers that develop these different

1616
01:56:21,023 --> 01:56:25,927
scales of housing, and so we need high performance. Across

1617
01:56:25,927 --> 01:56:31,109
this entire group. In order to meet these very ambitious

1618
01:56:31,109 --> 01:56:35,602
targets that have been set. Okay? If you'll permit me,

1619
01:56:35,602 --> 01:56:37,802
just because the deputies are here, it's my motion that's

1620
01:56:37,802 --> 01:56:39,122
going to affect them. They're not going to be around

1621
01:56:39,122 --> 01:56:41,202
for the debate further. I just want to thank everybody

1622
01:56:41,202 --> 01:56:44,544
for coming. We're here. We're listening, and I hope you

1623
01:56:44,544 --> 01:56:48,024
could appreciate that it's. A complex issue, and we're really

1624
01:56:48,024 --> 01:56:50,344
trying to balance a lot of needs in the community.

1625
01:56:50,344 --> 01:56:54,138
And thank you for being here. I appreciate it. Okay,

1626
01:56:54,138 --> 01:56:57,338
second round, we had Councilor Gertuca to admit. Thank you.

1627
01:56:57,338 --> 01:57:00,418
Just really quickly, I. Just wanted to clarify. The city

1628
01:57:00,418 --> 01:57:03,218
manager said that this was our direction and we debated

1629
01:57:03,218 --> 01:57:06,018
it, but. We debated it and we removed these three,

1630
01:57:06,018 --> 01:57:07,898
so that's why we're here now. So I just wanted

1631
01:57:07,898 --> 01:57:13,604
to clarify that. We had. Councilor Agarwal had wanted to

1632
01:57:13,604 --> 01:57:18,479
speak. Is there anyone wishing to speak prior to her

1633
01:57:18,479 --> 01:57:26,762
return? Mayor Boshkov. I think it must be said, chair.

1634
01:57:28,455 --> 01:57:34,301
That. These decisions before us tonight are probably the easiest

1635
01:57:34,301 --> 01:57:40,866
that we will be presented with. And what we're faced

1636
01:57:40,866 --> 01:57:46,121
with. Is. That? Because it won't affect our percentage of

1637
01:57:46,121 --> 01:57:50,672
being the city with the highest percentage of Parkland. Because

1638
01:57:50,672 --> 01:57:55,152
we still be providing parks and recreation opportunities for the

1639
01:57:55,152 --> 01:58:01,020
areas that. Are directly affected. The opportunity for us to

1640
01:58:01,020 --> 01:58:05,736
use infill. The next set of decisions I could only

1641
01:58:05,736 --> 01:58:08,096
say will be more difficult that we have to face.

1642
01:58:13,668 --> 01:58:20,725
So I would. Think that. I'm as a former environmental

1643
01:58:20,725 --> 01:58:28,215
planner, Convince that these neighborhoods will not be severely impacted

1644
01:58:28,215 --> 01:58:34,696
by neither traffic nor congestion. And that the space occupied.

1645
01:58:36,609 --> 01:58:43,833
Will be of minimal impact to the community. So. If

1646
01:58:43,833 --> 01:58:46,913
it was otherwise, it wouldn't even come close to supporting

1647
01:58:46,913 --> 01:58:51,513
it. Thank you. Thank you. Mayor back to first round.

1648
01:58:51,513 --> 01:58:54,953
Councilor Aguilar Aguwal, you're the last. Speaker at this point.

1649
01:58:54,953 --> 01:58:58,786
Thank you very much. Through the chair. Can you please

1650
01:58:58,786 --> 01:59:01,986
to administration. Can you please remind us what the lot

1651
01:59:01,986 --> 01:59:07,637
size frontage? Of thornel Thistle and Woodside are place. Frontage

1652
01:59:07,637 --> 01:59:10,808
and depth. Through the chair. If I may just have

1653
01:59:10,808 --> 01:59:16,806
one moment. So take a look here. One moment.

1654
01:59:50,614 --> 01:59:52,734
Through the chair. I'm able to provide the total area

1655
01:59:52,734 --> 01:59:55,414
of these lots, but not the frontage and the depth

1656
01:59:55,414 --> 02:00:03,949
collector separately. Sorry. The reason I'm asking for a frontage

1657
02:00:03,949 --> 02:00:06,309
is because frontage will be making. A very big determinant

1658
02:00:06,309 --> 02:00:08,995
on. How many units can be built on? A lot.

1659
02:00:10,940 --> 02:00:15,615
As opposed to. Square meters because a depth is different

1660
02:00:15,615 --> 02:00:19,171
than the frontage. But we build. You're saying, okay, you've

1661
02:00:19,171 --> 02:00:22,211
got ten meter frontage, you got. 30 meters. Frontage, whatever

1662
02:00:22,211 --> 02:00:27,251
it may be, determines the quantity of unit allowable on

1663
02:00:27,251 --> 02:00:30,651
a setting. Lot. Maybe we can get that for city

1664
02:00:30,651 --> 02:00:33,939
council later. When this actually comes up for a decision.

1665
02:00:35,108 --> 02:00:37,068
Okay, then. If I could make a comment here. The

1666
02:00:37,068 --> 02:00:39,628
concern I have is we heard earlier that one of

1667
02:00:39,628 --> 02:00:43,388
the maximum number of units could be built on Thornlow

1668
02:00:43,388 --> 02:00:48,176
would be eight units, approximately. Six units. Was it six

1669
02:00:48,176 --> 02:00:52,534
or eight? What was brought forward there? If I'm not

1670
02:00:52,534 --> 02:01:02,483
mistaken. Through the chair. Six units on one lot if

1671
02:01:02,483 --> 02:01:05,323
it remains one lot, up to potentially eight if it

1672
02:01:05,323 --> 02:01:07,563
were to be split into two. Some of these do

1673
02:01:07,563 --> 02:01:09,883
depend on how we split up the lots, or rather,

1674
02:01:09,883 --> 02:01:13,764
leave them whole. Therefore, the concern that is brought forward

1675
02:01:13,764 --> 02:01:16,404
by our deputies today is how many? Lots. And what

1676
02:01:16,404 --> 02:01:18,164
kind? Of insole we're going to do on a curved

1677
02:01:18,164 --> 02:01:24,865
road in a predominantly single family. Residential neighborhood. When you

1678
02:01:24,865 --> 02:01:29,065
do with frontage, and it was 150 foot frontage, you

1679
02:01:29,065 --> 02:01:33,308
can put up. An easily. With allowable parking on site.

1680
02:01:34,752 --> 02:01:40,263
A low rise condominium or apartment. We're doing questions to

1681
02:01:40,263 --> 02:01:45,995
administration. That's why it needs regarding. This stuff you're saying

1682
02:01:45,995 --> 02:01:50,035
is valuable for city council during the debate portion. Thank

1683
02:01:50,035 --> 02:01:53,510
you. Unfortunately. We have to do that. I know people

1684
02:01:53,510 --> 02:01:55,590
in the gallery would probably like to see this resolve.

1685
02:01:55,590 --> 02:01:57,950
But it's got to go to city council, which comes

1686
02:01:57,950 --> 02:02:00,830
after a number of business items. Tonight, and I appreciate

1687
02:02:00,830 --> 02:02:03,350
that very much. That's why just the frontage would have

1688
02:02:03,350 --> 02:02:07,270
been quite beneficial here to be able to give people

1689
02:02:07,270 --> 02:02:11,270
a true understanding of what size of building would be

1690
02:02:11,270 --> 02:02:16,284
able to be. Constructed. In the parquettes that they are

1691
02:02:16,284 --> 02:02:20,004
asking about and they're concerned about, well, hopefully by city

1692
02:02:20,004 --> 02:02:22,524
council will have those numbers. We can all go on

1693
02:02:22,524 --> 02:02:24,684
Google Earth and use a little ruler there and get

1694
02:02:24,684 --> 02:02:27,931
a pretty good idea. Well, that doesn't work on a

1695
02:02:27,931 --> 02:02:30,131
curved road as easily as it does on the straight.

1696
02:02:30,131 --> 02:02:35,120
Road. I appreciate that. Thank you. Okay. So my second

1697
02:02:35,120 --> 02:02:39,662
question then would be, To. Manager Schwartz in regards to.

1698
02:02:42,438 --> 02:02:45,838
Climate change. Our city manager brought up that our strategy

1699
02:02:45,838 --> 02:02:51,057
is on climate change. Would the elimination and removal of

1700
02:02:51,057 --> 02:02:56,596
these parquets to be sold. In these neighborhoods. Affect any

1701
02:02:56,596 --> 02:03:01,490
climate change or biodiversity in the park. Systems that we

1702
02:03:01,490 --> 02:03:05,515
have and your overall plan. So through the chair, if

1703
02:03:05,515 --> 02:03:12,527
I may. I'm supervisor Schwar, not manager Schwarzene. That's okay.

1704
02:03:12,527 --> 02:03:14,207
It's. Just been a few times, so I just wanted

1705
02:03:14,207 --> 02:03:18,259
to correct that. So again, it depends on the lens

1706
02:03:18,259 --> 02:03:24,320
you're looking at. The reason we are looking at Parklands

1707
02:03:24,320 --> 02:03:29,017
as infill is so that. We don't further do urban

1708
02:03:29,017 --> 02:03:33,380
brawl outside of the city. When we do urban sprawl

1709
02:03:33,380 --> 02:03:36,860
outside of the city, we are generally removing forested lands

1710
02:03:36,860 --> 02:03:42,460
or wetlands, which arguably have a greater environmental benefit than

1711
02:03:42,460 --> 02:03:48,712
a moan lawn park that currently exists there. If you

1712
02:03:48,712 --> 02:03:50,672
look at it that way, if you look at it

1713
02:03:50,672 --> 02:03:54,712
in terms of the fact that we have less hectares

1714
02:03:54,712 --> 02:04:03,402
of green space. Within the city. Proper. Than there is

1715
02:04:03,402 --> 02:04:08,202
somewhat a reduction in benefits, but I believe that there

1716
02:04:08,202 --> 02:04:11,922
is greater benefit to not developing outside of the city

1717
02:04:11,922 --> 02:04:17,466
than developing within. Okay. Thank you very much. Thank you.

1718
02:04:17,466 --> 02:04:21,506
Just on titles. I've just been informed by the city

1719
02:04:21,506 --> 02:04:24,706
clerk that we can. Reference everyone as city official and

1720
02:04:24,706 --> 02:04:30,067
their name. I can't remember all the different titles. So

1721
02:04:30,067 --> 02:04:32,827
I'm going to start using city official with the name.

1722
02:04:32,827 --> 02:04:34,667
So I share that with you, because I know a

1723
02:04:34,667 --> 02:04:38,507
lot of you are struggling with that tonight. Okay, we're

1724
02:04:38,507 --> 02:04:41,507
done. Next item. Thank you all for coming out. By

1725
02:04:41,507 --> 02:04:45,356
the way, appreciate your engagement. So chair the next item.

1726
02:04:45,356 --> 02:04:49,400
Ask for the change in the agenda is. Item 8.7,

1727
02:04:49,400 --> 02:04:54,360
report back response to unsheltered homelessness designated encampment. Framework at

1728
02:04:54,360 --> 02:04:56,920
the April 22, 2024 committee of the whole meeting, a

1729
02:04:56,920 --> 02:05:01,360
resolution was passed recommending administration report back to city council

1730
02:05:01,360 --> 02:05:05,920
and to provide recommendations on the consultations that occurred relative

1731
02:05:05,920 --> 02:05:10,797
to unsheltered homelessness report number two. 52 City manager's office

1732
02:05:10,797 --> 02:05:14,797
strategic initiatives and engagement provides a recommendation relative to this

1733
02:05:14,797 --> 02:05:18,837
matter for council's consideration. This was distributed separately on Friday,

1734
02:05:18,837 --> 02:05:22,517
June 21. Further, he received a memorandum from Director Cynthia

1735
02:05:22,517 --> 02:05:26,477
Olsen requesting an opportunity to provide a presentation. This was

1736
02:05:26,477 --> 02:05:29,554
also distributed on Friday, June 21. We do have two

1737
02:05:29,554 --> 02:05:33,714
deputations chair prior to getting to the presentation and the

1738
02:05:33,714 --> 02:05:37,474
two deputations it's my understanding that city manager Gail now

1739
02:05:37,474 --> 02:05:41,032
would like to provide some opening. Remarks. Is this the

1740
02:05:41,032 --> 02:05:49,197
right time, Jerry? Yes. You're safe. For takeoff. I'm going

1741
02:05:49,197 --> 02:05:53,037
to start again, chair, and thank you for your indulgence.

1742
02:05:53,037 --> 02:05:56,117
Tonight you are considering another important report in the municipality's

1743
02:05:56,117 --> 02:06:01,597
response to encampments and unsheltered homelessness. Since the pandemic, there

1744
02:06:01,597 --> 02:06:05,237
has been a growth in encampments and temporary shelters not

1745
02:06:05,237 --> 02:06:09,069
only in Thunder Bay but across Canada. There is also

1746
02:06:09,069 --> 02:06:13,789
a growing recognition, led by the federal housing advocate, of

1747
02:06:13,789 --> 02:06:17,629
the imperative to uphold the dignity and human rights of

1748
02:06:17,629 --> 02:06:22,669
people living in encampments. In her recent interim report, the

1749
02:06:22,669 --> 02:06:27,485
advocate noted that municipalities are, quote, The first line of

1750
02:06:27,485 --> 02:06:32,725
response, but often not empowered and generally not adequately resourced

1751
02:06:32,725 --> 02:06:36,285
to meet the complex housing and public health crisis growing

1752
02:06:36,285 --> 02:06:41,221
in their communities. This is absolutely the case in the

1753
02:06:41,221 --> 02:06:46,080
city of Thunder Bay. In fact, Housing and all matters.

1754
02:06:46,080 --> 02:06:49,960
Homelessness are not even the city of Thunder Bay's responsibility.

1755
02:06:49,960 --> 02:06:52,320
You have no lawful authority in this domain, but that

1756
02:06:52,320 --> 02:06:54,280
doesn't mean you can't dip. Your toes in and there

1757
02:06:54,280 --> 02:06:57,836
is stuff you can do. And that'll be shown in

1758
02:06:57,836 --> 02:07:03,105
the report. In presentation. A few key facts, chair, that

1759
02:07:03,105 --> 02:07:06,145
puts us in the city between a rock and a

1760
02:07:06,145 --> 02:07:11,109
hard place. Experiences of homelessness. Encampments and temporary shelters are

1761
02:07:11,109 --> 02:07:15,731
growing across Canada. We are, and we must take a

1762
02:07:15,731 --> 02:07:21,236
human rights approach. We have competing needs as temporary outdoor

1763
02:07:21,236 --> 02:07:24,596
shelters affect the perception of other residents of their neighborhoods

1764
02:07:24,596 --> 02:07:30,716
and city. Unlike other municipalities, the Province of Ontario does

1765
02:07:30,716 --> 02:07:34,716
not provide funding directly to our municipality to address homeless

1766
02:07:34,716 --> 02:07:38,460
homelessness. And our work is done at the corner of

1767
02:07:38,460 --> 02:07:42,549
our desk. That's been a big corner. It's a lot

1768
02:07:42,549 --> 02:07:46,029
of work that's been happening there. Provinces designated and funds

1769
02:07:46,029 --> 02:07:50,109
the district of Thunderbased Social Services Administration board as the

1770
02:07:50,109 --> 02:07:56,342
housing service system manager. The city has influence, but not

1771
02:07:56,342 --> 02:07:59,582
decision making authority on which priorities those funds are to

1772
02:07:59,582 --> 02:08:04,466
be allocated. The province has recognized a significant and complex

1773
02:08:04,466 --> 02:08:09,586
homelessness situation in the municipality, and they have responded by

1774
02:08:09,586 --> 02:08:11,986
more than tripling the amount of funding to the DSAB

1775
02:08:11,986 --> 02:08:19,847
from 5.3 to 16.5 million annually beginning in 2023. Chair

1776
02:08:19,847 --> 02:08:24,207
administration is not well positioned to respond to questions about

1777
02:08:24,207 --> 02:08:26,927
what the DSAB may or may not be doing and

1778
02:08:26,927 --> 02:08:30,444
how they are doing what they're doing. D seven does

1779
02:08:30,444 --> 02:08:33,644
have a board, however, and six members of council are

1780
02:08:33,644 --> 02:08:37,284
members of that board, including the chair is here, and

1781
02:08:37,284 --> 02:08:39,404
they are best positioned to respond to any questions about

1782
02:08:39,404 --> 02:08:45,673
the DSAP. The city does, however. Have a responsibility to

1783
02:08:45,673 --> 02:08:49,193
all of its citizens in Thunder Bay, including residents of

1784
02:08:49,193 --> 02:08:53,399
encampments. Do keep that in mind, please. In this very

1785
02:08:53,399 --> 02:09:00,593
challenging environment. Director Olsen and analyst Willanen. City officials have

1786
02:09:00,593 --> 02:09:04,353
prepared a thorough report on what we can do now

1787
02:09:04,353 --> 02:09:09,924
as a municipality, what we can do. That is lawful,

1788
02:09:09,924 --> 02:09:12,164
what we can do, that accepts we are part of

1789
02:09:12,164 --> 02:09:15,484
the solution, which I know. To be your desire. What

1790
02:09:15,484 --> 02:09:17,644
we can do to move forward in a good way.

1791
02:09:19,012 --> 02:09:24,212
Long term solutions will only be achieved through true collaboration

1792
02:09:24,212 --> 02:09:33,323
with our community partners. Director Olsen and. Analyst Willingan are

1793
02:09:33,323 --> 02:09:37,392
a small but mighty team. They do not have the

1794
02:09:37,392 --> 02:09:41,923
benefit of provincial resources to address homelessness. They are smart.

1795
02:09:43,371 --> 02:09:47,051
They are dedicated and they are looking for concrete solutions

1796
02:09:47,051 --> 02:09:51,953
to present to you. Chair. This is an extraordinarily difficult

1797
02:09:51,953 --> 02:09:58,721
file for all the reasons I've stated. I ask, request

1798
02:09:58,721 --> 02:10:02,887
that as you explore this further tonight, That we all

1799
02:10:02,887 --> 02:10:06,807
take special care to focus discussion on the issues and

1800
02:10:06,807 --> 02:10:12,807
solutions in a way that is respectful of individuals experiencing

1801
02:10:12,807 --> 02:10:18,321
homelessness. And our professional staff, who are working very hard

1802
02:10:18,321 --> 02:10:21,641
in good faith. Chair, I'd like to do I go

1803
02:10:21,641 --> 02:10:26,017
to director Olson now? No, chair. Back to you. Yes.

1804
02:10:26,017 --> 02:10:30,073
We're going to the presentation next, I believe. Through the

1805
02:10:30,073 --> 02:10:32,753
chair. I thought the deputations were next, but we're going

1806
02:10:32,753 --> 02:10:37,655
to do the. Just one moment while we pull this

1807
02:10:37,655 --> 02:10:38,415
up. Thank you, chair.

1808
02:10:56,348 --> 02:10:59,308
Thank you, city manager Gail. And through the chair. Good

1809
02:10:59,308 --> 02:11:03,268
evening, council. We are grateful for the opportunity. To present

1810
02:11:03,268 --> 02:11:08,908
administration's recommendations on designated encampment sites in Thunder Bay. We

1811
02:11:08,908 --> 02:11:12,148
bring you this report under very short timelines, as we

1812
02:11:12,148 --> 02:11:14,748
were just before council at the end of April. This.

1813
02:11:16,613 --> 02:11:22,671
Year. In devising our recommendations, we considered three critically important

1814
02:11:22,671 --> 02:11:26,420
factors. We recognize the need to balance the human rights

1815
02:11:26,420 --> 02:11:32,204
of those living in encampments with broader community concerns. We

1816
02:11:32,204 --> 02:11:37,684
conducted an environmental scan of approaches from other Ontario municipalities.

1817
02:11:37,684 --> 02:11:41,564
We looked at their experiences and sought professional guidance to

1818
02:11:41,564 --> 02:11:46,640
inform our strategy. And in relation to municipal jurisdiction and

1819
02:11:46,640 --> 02:11:49,840
capacity. The city of Thunder Bay does not receive provincial

1820
02:11:49,840 --> 02:11:53,960
or federal funding directly aimed at addressing unsheltered homelessness. We

1821
02:11:53,960 --> 02:11:57,640
present you efforts which align with our jurisdiction and our

1822
02:11:57,640 --> 02:12:03,406
capacity. Please note that we bring you our best recommendations

1823
02:12:03,406 --> 02:12:07,406
tonight. In a landscape that is largely unknown, there are

1824
02:12:07,406 --> 02:12:11,446
no quick fixes and no single response will address everyone's

1825
02:12:11,446 --> 02:12:15,321
needs. Our recommendations were informed by the factors that I

1826
02:12:15,321 --> 02:12:19,481
just outlined, and they were not developed to include or

1827
02:12:19,481 --> 02:12:24,161
exclude any current encampment. I will now pass the presentation

1828
02:12:24,161 --> 02:12:28,359
over to analyst Willan. Thank you, Director Olson. What these

1829
02:12:28,359 --> 02:12:31,439
factors in mind, let's look high level at administration's. Recommendations.

1830
02:12:34,329 --> 02:12:38,209
The first recommendation is to adopt the distance guidelines, establishing

1831
02:12:38,209 --> 02:12:40,809
clear distance guidelines that balance public concerns and the needs

1832
02:12:40,809 --> 02:12:45,009
of encampment residents. Our second recommendation is identifying land for

1833
02:12:45,009 --> 02:12:47,489
a built structure. Pilot and also provide a letter of

1834
02:12:47,489 --> 02:12:49,409
support from the mayor on behalf of city council to

1835
02:12:49,409 --> 02:12:56,700
potential external funders. And our third recommendation is around advocacy,

1836
02:12:56,700 --> 02:12:59,660
urging the Government of Ontario to match federal contributions under

1837
02:12:59,660 --> 02:13:03,700
Canada's. Housing plan, increased social assistance rates and fund 24/7

1838
02:13:03,700 --> 02:13:07,980
crisis stabilization spaces there's. Also an additional advocacy piece to

1839
02:13:07,980 --> 02:13:10,820
the canadian government to establish a national encampment response. Plan,

1840
02:13:10,820 --> 02:13:12,700
which was a recommendation from the Office of the Federal

1841
02:13:12,700 --> 02:13:16,846
Housing Advocate. We'll now explore our first recommendation to adopt

1842
02:13:16,846 --> 02:13:21,286
distance guidelines. Permissible and sanctioned encampment sites are broadly defined

1843
02:13:21,286 --> 02:13:23,966
as areas on municipally owned land where encampments are allowed

1844
02:13:23,966 --> 02:13:26,926
as determined by a set of criteria. In adopting such

1845
02:13:26,926 --> 02:13:30,286
criteria, it also creates areas where encampments are not allowed.

1846
02:13:30,286 --> 02:13:35,298
The goal is to balance public concerns. With the needs

1847
02:13:35,298 --> 02:13:38,938
and rights of encampment residents. The guidelines rely on voluntary

1848
02:13:38,938 --> 02:13:42,738
compliance, which requires trust and cooperation between encampment residents and

1849
02:13:42,738 --> 02:13:46,578
the people who support them. Historically, nearly all residents that

1850
02:13:46,578 --> 02:13:49,938
have needed to be relocated have done so willingly with

1851
02:13:49,938 --> 02:13:53,978
support from an external partner. Additionally, we expect success with

1852
02:13:53,978 --> 02:13:56,717
compliance because we've. Received input and buy in from encampment

1853
02:13:56,717 --> 02:14:00,317
residents. Next, let's take a look at the proposed distance

1854
02:14:00,317 --> 02:14:04,547
guidelines. So these guidelines were adopted from other municipalities that

1855
02:14:04,547 --> 02:14:08,267
are taking a similar approach. Administration first used their professional

1856
02:14:08,267 --> 02:14:10,627
judgment to adopt the guidelines to be appropriate for our

1857
02:14:10,627 --> 02:14:14,667
community. Those guidelines were then reviewed collaboratively with individuals living

1858
02:14:14,667 --> 02:14:17,427
in encampments. And we also heard from those folks that

1859
02:14:17,427 --> 02:14:20,027
they want the guidelines and that they were generally well

1860
02:14:20,027 --> 02:14:25,612
received. Where appropriate, their feedback was incorporated into the guidelines.

1861
02:14:25,612 --> 02:14:29,172
For example, residents advised that the distance guideline relating to

1862
02:14:29,172 --> 02:14:31,972
private property, which was initially presented at 10 meters, should

1863
02:14:31,972 --> 02:14:35,212
be doubled to 20 to respect privacy, security and to

1864
02:14:35,212 --> 02:14:38,412
keep the peace. The amended guidelines were then reviewed with

1865
02:14:38,412 --> 02:14:41,292
the response to unsheltered homelessness task force and their feedback

1866
02:14:41,292 --> 02:14:44,473
was incorporated where appropria. Appropriate. For example, the distance from

1867
02:14:44,473 --> 02:14:46,793
highways was suggested to increase from 10 meters to 20

1868
02:14:46,793 --> 02:14:50,797
meters for safety reasons. Other notable aspects of the guidelines

1869
02:14:50,797 --> 02:14:53,437
include expert guidance to cap the amount of temporary structures.

1870
02:14:55,022 --> 02:14:59,422
At 25 structures or 30 individuals, which overcomes first identification

1871
02:14:59,422 --> 02:15:02,782
of area susceptible to erosion and flooding. Via the environmental

1872
02:15:02,782 --> 02:15:06,502
protection zone, and that structure should aim to be freestanding.

1873
02:15:08,257 --> 02:15:10,937
So I'll just quickly go over the guidelines. So encampments,

1874
02:15:10,937 --> 02:15:13,577
which are defined as locations where one or more people

1875
02:15:13,577 --> 02:15:16,857
live in an unsheltered area in temporary structures are not

1876
02:15:16,857 --> 02:15:19,897
to be located on or within 100 meters of a

1877
02:15:19,897 --> 02:15:23,017
playground, a school, or licensed daycare. A pool or a

1878
02:15:23,017 --> 02:15:26,497
splash pad on or within 50 meters of any lake,

1879
02:15:26,497 --> 02:15:30,143
beach or pond. A boat. Launch a multi use sports

1880
02:15:30,143 --> 02:15:33,783
field or golf course which is inclusive of hockey rinks

1881
02:15:33,783 --> 02:15:36,623
on or within 20 meters of any highway or private

1882
02:15:36,623 --> 02:15:39,463
property line on or within 10 meters of any public

1883
02:15:39,463 --> 02:15:43,903
transit stop or formal heritage property designation on or within

1884
02:15:43,903 --> 02:15:46,903
5 meters of any off leash dog area. Community garden,

1885
02:15:46,903 --> 02:15:50,203
cemetery, sidewalk or. Trail, fire route or blocking a fire

1886
02:15:50,203 --> 02:15:53,923
hydrant, a bridge or parking lot, an accessibility entrance or

1887
02:15:53,923 --> 02:15:57,683
ramp and an entrance, exit or doorway and not to

1888
02:15:57,683 --> 02:16:01,043
be located within the environmental protection zone and to be

1889
02:16:01,043 --> 02:16:04,203
assessed on a site by site basis. The recommendation is

1890
02:16:04,203 --> 02:16:06,803
that there'd be no more than five tenths per cluster

1891
02:16:06,803 --> 02:16:10,788
at one location. With 10 meters of separation, up to

1892
02:16:10,788 --> 02:16:13,548
a max of five clusters per site. So 25 temporary

1893
02:16:13,548 --> 02:16:16,868
structures also, please keep in mind that this infographic is

1894
02:16:16,868 --> 02:16:20,068
not a comprehensive summary of all of the distance guidelines

1895
02:16:20,068 --> 02:16:23,499
that are further outlined in the report. Sykes found to

1896
02:16:23,499 --> 02:16:25,579
be in violation of these guidelines would be subject to

1897
02:16:25,579 --> 02:16:28,339
health and safety reviews as determined by the task force.

1898
02:16:28,339 --> 02:16:30,659
Where such a review is required, the task force would

1899
02:16:30,659 --> 02:16:34,419
determine who should be involved. The professionals conducting the review

1900
02:16:34,419 --> 02:16:37,219
would use their professional opinion and a risk assessment tool

1901
02:16:37,219 --> 02:16:39,579
to examine the severity of risks. Those who do not

1902
02:16:39,579 --> 02:16:41,659
pose a serious health or safety risk would be subject

1903
02:16:41,659 --> 02:16:44,217
to the planned relocation prot. Protocol, which is attachment B

1904
02:16:44,217 --> 02:16:46,817
in the report. Whereas those who are determined to be

1905
02:16:46,817 --> 02:16:49,257
at serious risk. Of injury, illness or death would be

1906
02:16:49,257 --> 02:16:53,958
subject to the emergency relocation protocol. Also attachment B. And

1907
02:16:53,958 --> 02:16:58,031
this brings me to our next recommendation. Built structure sites.

1908
02:16:58,031 --> 02:17:01,351
Some communities have successfully introduced various models of built structures

1909
02:17:01,351 --> 02:17:04,831
for transitional sheltering. There is interest from external partners to

1910
02:17:04,831 --> 02:17:07,991
explore a pilot project at this site. The project has

1911
02:17:07,991 --> 02:17:12,151
received conceptual support from infrastructure development and operations and in

1912
02:17:12,151 --> 02:17:15,151
keeping in line with our municipal jurisdiction and capacity, the

1913
02:17:15,151 --> 02:17:17,524
city would work in partnership with. An external partner to

1914
02:17:17,524 --> 02:17:21,887
help them secure capital and operating funding. To assist administration.

1915
02:17:21,887 --> 02:17:24,887
Suggest council provide a letter of support to external funders.

1916
02:17:24,887 --> 02:17:28,287
An administration is committed to collaborating with partners to identify

1917
02:17:28,287 --> 02:17:32,087
or apply for appropriate funding sources. The city can support

1918
02:17:32,087 --> 02:17:34,527
this endeavor. By identifying a piece of municipality online for

1919
02:17:34,527 --> 02:17:38,772
this project. The proposed site at present is an underused

1920
02:17:38,772 --> 02:17:42,012
parking lot approved for closure by council earlier this year.

1921
02:17:42,012 --> 02:17:43,852
It's been identified as a good location for a few

1922
02:17:43,852 --> 02:17:47,412
reasons. Its proximity to essential services such as the DSAB

1923
02:17:47,412 --> 02:17:53,020
TBD. Shelter house pace and public transit. The pave law

1924
02:17:53,020 --> 02:17:56,260
is also suitable for quicksite preparation. It has convenient access

1925
02:17:56,260 --> 02:17:58,820
to water and sewage hookups, and the site does already

1926
02:17:58,820 --> 02:18:02,140
permit emergency shelter as an appropriate use of zoning, so

1927
02:18:02,140 --> 02:18:06,118
we believe this would align with the designation. I'd also

1928
02:18:06,118 --> 02:18:07,678
like to make note that due to time constraints, there

1929
02:18:07,678 --> 02:18:10,958
was no opportunity for any consultation to happen on this

1930
02:18:10,958 --> 02:18:14,525
site. And we'll now consider our last recommendation, which is

1931
02:18:14,525 --> 02:18:18,953
advocacy. Encampments are the result of systemic failures that require

1932
02:18:18,953 --> 02:18:22,113
policy reform and steep investments into a suite of upstream

1933
02:18:22,113 --> 02:18:27,433
midstream and downstream interventions for upstream. An example is as

1934
02:18:27,433 --> 02:18:30,633
the cost of living increases, social assistance rates have not

1935
02:18:30,633 --> 02:18:34,873
adequately increased alongside it. And while the Ontario government has

1936
02:18:34,873 --> 02:18:37,374
taken actions to improve this. There is a dire impressing

1937
02:18:37,374 --> 02:18:40,774
need to increase ODSP and Ow rates to prevent people

1938
02:18:40,774 --> 02:18:43,854
from becoming homeless and to support those in transitioning out

1939
02:18:43,854 --> 02:18:53,257
of homelessness. A midstream intervention. Is the matching. Sorry. Urging

1940
02:18:53,257 --> 02:18:59,449
the provincial government to match. The cost. To match the

1941
02:18:59,449 --> 02:19:03,729
commitment in Canada's housing plan for $250,000,000 through budget 2024

1942
02:19:03,729 --> 02:19:06,649
for communities that are responding to unsheltered homelessness from a

1943
02:19:06,649 --> 02:19:10,249
human rights perspective and an example of downstream is to

1944
02:19:10,249 --> 02:19:13,249
recognize that there is often an overlap between people experiencing

1945
02:19:13,249 --> 02:19:16,089
unsheltered homelessness and people with poor substance use health. We

1946
02:19:16,089 --> 02:19:19,130
are recommending that advocacy efforts be directed towards the. Government

1947
02:19:19,130 --> 02:19:22,970
Ontario government to fund low barrier crisis stabilization spaces for

1948
02:19:22,970 --> 02:19:25,290
people with mental health and or substance use related issues

1949
02:19:25,290 --> 02:19:27,410
that operate 24 hours a day, seven days a week.

1950
02:19:29,189 --> 02:19:31,949
To close. It's important to note that our recommendations are

1951
02:19:31,949 --> 02:19:38,441
not long term solutions. They are interim measures to best

1952
02:19:38,441 --> 02:19:43,241
respond so that our community, including businesses housed and unhoused,

1953
02:19:43,241 --> 02:19:47,081
residents have an effective response and support in our community.

1954
02:19:48,558 --> 02:19:52,678
Our recommendations are to implement the distance guidelines, identify land

1955
02:19:52,678 --> 02:19:55,518
for a pilot project featuring a built structure and provide

1956
02:19:55,518 --> 02:20:00,704
letters of support. For external partners and external funding opportunities

1957
02:20:00,704 --> 02:20:04,557
and to do advocacy with other orders of government. We

1958
02:20:04,557 --> 02:20:07,357
would like to leave you with this final consideration. While

1959
02:20:07,357 --> 02:20:11,317
the federal housing advocates office has recently released its final

1960
02:20:11,317 --> 02:20:15,277
report. The office's work has not stopped. They continue to

1961
02:20:15,277 --> 02:20:20,197
monitor and will likely provide further recommendations. Administration maintains ongoing

1962
02:20:20,197 --> 02:20:23,877
communication with the federal Housing advocate's office and have been

1963
02:20:23,877 --> 02:20:27,136
invited to. An update meeting in the coming weeks. We

1964
02:20:27,136 --> 02:20:30,921
must, and we are. And we must follow a human

1965
02:20:30,921 --> 02:20:35,321
rights based approach as a municipality with human rights obligations

1966
02:20:35,321 --> 02:20:38,841
to all citizens. Thank you, and we are happy to

1967
02:20:38,841 --> 02:20:43,576
answer any questions members of council may have. Thank you,

1968
02:20:43,576 --> 02:20:46,416
council. I was hoping we could go to the deputations

1969
02:20:46,416 --> 02:20:50,562
and come back. To administration once the report is on

1970
02:20:50,562 --> 02:20:54,474
the floor. Kind of wrap it all up into one

1971
02:20:54,474 --> 02:21:01,279
package rather than doing. Two essentially question periods. Okay, consensus.

1972
02:21:01,279 --> 02:21:05,576
Okay, so we'll go to deputation first. So. Thank you,

1973
02:21:05,576 --> 02:21:08,176
chair. We do have two requests for deputation. The first

1974
02:21:08,176 --> 02:21:12,416
was received on June the 20th, requesting an opportunity to

1975
02:21:12,416 --> 02:21:16,061
come forward this evening as Andre Ganier. Deputy Ganye is

1976
02:21:16,061 --> 02:21:20,239
in the gallery. We welcome him to come forward. Welcome.

1977
02:21:20,239 --> 02:21:22,519
You'll have ten minutes for a presentation over to questions.

1978
02:21:26,320 --> 02:21:27,560
Please pull it up. Okay.

1979
02:21:39,146 --> 02:21:41,506
Hello. My name is Andre Ganier, and I am a

1980
02:21:41,506 --> 02:21:46,394
resident here to urge you to refrain. From designating. Homeless

1981
02:21:46,394 --> 02:21:50,572
encampments. And to comment on the process as I've observed

1982
02:21:50,572 --> 02:21:53,532
it generally, as some of you may already know, I

1983
02:21:53,532 --> 02:21:57,092
strongly oppose allowing homeless individuals to monopolize our shared public

1984
02:21:57,092 --> 02:22:00,652
spaces. Historically, if you were homeless. You had to reside

1985
02:22:00,652 --> 02:22:03,692
where you were not bothering anyone. Nobody had special rights

1986
02:22:03,692 --> 02:22:06,772
to any of our shared public lands and service providers

1987
02:22:06,772 --> 02:22:10,938
adjusted to that reality. However, since our charter was upended

1988
02:22:10,938 --> 02:22:13,938
in 2019 to introduce a right to housing and with

1989
02:22:13,938 --> 02:22:17,098
the recent Hamilton provincial court decision, we find ourselves in

1990
02:22:17,098 --> 02:22:21,258
a legal limbo where enforcement parameters are poorly. Defined on

1991
02:22:21,258 --> 02:22:25,731
this frontier. There exists potential enforcement avenues that can be

1992
02:22:25,731 --> 02:22:29,440
explored in our city. For example, The Municipality of Kingston

1993
02:22:29,440 --> 02:22:34,406
is currently enforcing daytime bans on encampments within parks. There.

1994
02:22:34,406 --> 02:22:37,006
The bylaw officer writes the ticket and the police enforce

1995
02:22:37,006 --> 02:22:41,406
it. Kingston has committed to investigating. Human rights violations on

1996
02:22:41,406 --> 02:22:45,846
an individual basis. The ruling from the Hamilton decision clearly

1997
02:22:45,846 --> 02:22:50,566
prevents removing overnight in gamuts with insufficient shelter space available.

1998
02:22:50,566 --> 02:22:53,326
However, it is less clear why in Cambett's people. Why?

1999
02:22:53,326 --> 02:22:55,944
Encampment people? Should be allowed to use the park all

2000
02:22:55,944 --> 02:22:59,064
day. Why aren't we doing this? Many of you know

2001
02:22:59,064 --> 02:23:02,144
the answer. On April 24 of last year, in a

2002
02:23:02,144 --> 02:23:04,824
committee of the whole, you adopted a human rights based

2003
02:23:04,824 --> 02:23:07,504
approach that I argue many of you did not fully

2004
02:23:07,504 --> 02:23:12,864
understand the consequences of. At the time, strategic director Olsen

2005
02:23:12,864 --> 02:23:16,493
explained it best to. A response to Councilor Chung about

2006
02:23:16,493 --> 02:23:19,293
the implications of this approach. In her words, the human

2007
02:23:19,293 --> 02:23:22,493
rights based approach is, quote, to not err on the

2008
02:23:22,493 --> 02:23:26,375
side of enforcement. Again to not err on the side

2009
02:23:26,375 --> 02:23:29,890
of enforcement. In fact, the report. On the human rights

2010
02:23:29,890 --> 02:23:34,010
based approach explicitly prevents counsel or administration from even considering

2011
02:23:34,010 --> 02:23:37,290
enforcement approaches to this issue now. I've just told you

2012
02:23:37,290 --> 02:23:40,810
what Kingston is attempting. Your staff are forbidden by you.

2013
02:23:40,810 --> 02:23:43,970
Since last year from exploring that avenue because it includes

2014
02:23:43,970 --> 02:23:46,998
an enforcement approach. You are handcuffing your wrists to your

2015
02:23:46,998 --> 02:23:50,718
ankle and trying to do a backflip. What your administration

2016
02:23:50,718 --> 02:23:53,678
instead is doing is softly suggesting to encampment people at

2017
02:23:53,678 --> 02:23:57,504
the discretion of the task force to relocate. With inconsistent

2018
02:23:57,504 --> 02:24:00,424
success. You have poisoned the well of information that administration

2019
02:24:00,424 --> 02:24:03,963
can even present to you. What you can do, and

2020
02:24:03,963 --> 02:24:07,043
you should do is reconsider the vote you cast in

2021
02:24:07,043 --> 02:24:09,283
favor. Of this approach. I will help you. Because I

2022
02:24:09,283 --> 02:24:11,643
went back and watched the beating you all voted. For

2023
02:24:11,643 --> 02:24:13,763
it. Two thirds of you have to agree with a

2024
02:24:13,763 --> 02:24:18,482
motion to reconsider. Minutes to eliminate the approach. You don't

2025
02:24:18,482 --> 02:24:21,002
have to replace it with any new restrictions. You just

2026
02:24:21,002 --> 02:24:24,322
have to eliminate it. Then ask administration to consider approaches

2027
02:24:24,322 --> 02:24:27,162
to the issue, and they will if they are unbiased.

2028
02:24:27,162 --> 02:24:31,722
Present enforcement options, especially if directed crucially tonight before you.

2029
02:24:33,480 --> 02:24:36,360
Tonight. Before you next consider sending administration to do another

2030
02:24:36,360 --> 02:24:39,000
second of work, you need to unbind their hands. You

2031
02:24:39,000 --> 02:24:41,200
need to let them explore the breadth of a complicated

2032
02:24:41,200 --> 02:24:45,040
issue to which many communities are attempting different approaches. If

2033
02:24:45,040 --> 02:24:48,683
you choose not to do this, then. Whenever anyone in

2034
02:24:48,683 --> 02:24:51,283
the public asks you why you can't remove an encampment,

2035
02:24:51,283 --> 02:24:53,363
you need to tell them because you have forbidden yourself

2036
02:24:53,363 --> 02:24:57,955
and the corporation from considering enforcement options. Now look at

2037
02:24:57,955 --> 02:25:01,995
the report before you report. Two five two. 2024. There

2038
02:25:01,995 --> 02:25:06,995
are distance guidelines and. Yet because of last year's self

2039
02:25:06,995 --> 02:25:10,555
restriction, they are not enforceable. See page 68 in the

2040
02:25:10,555 --> 02:25:13,235
last paragraph. It lets you know in plain English. English.

2041
02:25:15,167 --> 02:25:20,941
It's ironic English that the quote. Distance guidelines are not

2042
02:25:20,941 --> 02:25:25,541
enforceable regulations. Now, these are to be administered by the

2043
02:25:25,541 --> 02:25:28,501
task force through gentle suggestions at the discretion of the

2044
02:25:28,501 --> 02:25:32,141
strategic director and her task force. I don't want discretionary

2045
02:25:32,141 --> 02:25:36,821
guidelines. I want robust policy that administration must follow and

2046
02:25:36,821 --> 02:25:40,333
that police will enforce within legal. Boundaries. Many of you

2047
02:25:40,333 --> 02:25:44,749
are under the misapprehension that if you had. A designated

2048
02:25:44,749 --> 02:25:48,389
encampment location, you would be able to allocate problem individuals

2049
02:25:48,389 --> 02:25:50,669
and other encampment people to that one area and provide

2050
02:25:50,669 --> 02:25:55,150
better services. This misunderstands the legal framework. We are actually

2051
02:25:55,150 --> 02:25:58,750
operating under. You cannot enforce any approach. And even if

2052
02:25:58,750 --> 02:26:02,510
you ignore your own removable. Self restriction. You cannot make

2053
02:26:02,510 --> 02:26:06,087
a homeless person stay in a designated encampment, so. You

2054
02:26:06,087 --> 02:26:08,967
would expand your liability and your costs for nothing. Director

2055
02:26:08,967 --> 02:26:12,527
and Olsen and I fundamentally disagree on our perspectives, our

2056
02:26:12,527 --> 02:26:15,927
respective preferred approaches. And to be clear, this is her

2057
02:26:15,927 --> 02:26:19,807
preferred approach. In the April 24 report from last year.

2058
02:26:19,807 --> 02:26:22,887
It mentioned the intention was to formalize what was already

2059
02:26:22,887 --> 02:26:27,211
happening under her guidance. That said, despite. Our fundamental disagreements

2060
02:26:27,211 --> 02:26:30,091
about servicing the homeless. We both agree that designated encampments

2061
02:26:30,091 --> 02:26:33,162
are a horrible idea. I am also concerned about the.

2062
02:26:34,884 --> 02:26:37,964
Ambitions of our director of strategic engagement to massively expand

2063
02:26:37,964 --> 02:26:42,444
staffing under her direct control, which started as a $250,000

2064
02:26:42,444 --> 02:26:47,364
in new homeless worker staffing for budget year 2025. Deceitfully

2065
02:26:47,364 --> 02:26:50,804
passed at the tail end of the 2024 budget process

2066
02:26:50,804 --> 02:26:54,538
as a 2020. Mr. Ganye, I'd rather you not suggest

2067
02:26:54,538 --> 02:27:01,287
that staff are doing things. For purposes that. Are not

2068
02:27:01,287 --> 02:27:06,866
honorable. Honorable? Is my perception. I know. I'd rather you

2069
02:27:06,866 --> 02:27:10,826
not err those perceptions publicly tell us. What you would

2070
02:27:10,826 --> 02:27:17,370
like us to do. Okay, I'll withdraw. My deceitful characterization

2071
02:27:17,370 --> 02:27:23,216
and apologize. But I will point out the 250,000 passed

2072
02:27:23,216 --> 02:27:27,807
introduced and let me restate it. What started as a

2073
02:27:27,807 --> 02:27:33,762
250,000. Yeah. I apologize to Director Wilson. I don't know.

2074
02:27:36,086 --> 02:27:40,650
It's a clumsy, I guess. Temperatures are high with this

2075
02:27:40,650 --> 02:27:43,650
topic, so I would just ask all to be respectful.

2076
02:27:45,890 --> 02:27:49,284
Actually, I've spoken to her about the issue. She's a

2077
02:27:49,284 --> 02:27:53,936
likable person and very knowledgeable. We appreciate your apology and

2078
02:27:53,936 --> 02:28:00,401
your acknowledgment. Yeah. So what started is $250,000. In new

2079
02:28:00,401 --> 02:28:05,201
homeless worker staffing for budget year 2025, which is passed

2080
02:28:05,201 --> 02:28:08,201
at the tail end. Of the 2024 budget process as

2081
02:28:08,201 --> 02:28:13,583
a 2025. Budget direction has now ballooned. I hope to

2082
02:28:13,583 --> 02:28:16,223
450,000 in the report in front of you shown on

2083
02:28:16,223 --> 02:28:20,063
page 72, paragraph two. Why I say I hope is

2084
02:28:20,063 --> 02:28:23,743
because I sincerely hope that this 450,000 is in fact

2085
02:28:23,743 --> 02:28:27,343
cumulative, with the amount suggested earlier this year and not

2086
02:28:27,343 --> 02:28:31,197
in addition to that amount. I am worried this significant

2087
02:28:31,197 --> 02:28:34,597
staffing expansion is duplicating services that are under the jurisdiction

2088
02:28:34,597 --> 02:28:37,747
of the DSAB. The state of purpose of this additional

2089
02:28:37,747 --> 02:28:41,547
staff is to manage the unenforceable guidelines it should be

2090
02:28:41,547 --> 02:28:45,107
that we have enforceable guidelines with the bylaw, officers handling

2091
02:28:45,107 --> 02:28:48,547
notices of violation of our minimum distance guidelines followed up

2092
02:28:48,547 --> 02:28:50,787
by police enforcement, if that is what you choose to

2093
02:28:50,787 --> 02:28:56,794
do and not homeless agents working under the director. Skip

2094
02:28:56,794 --> 02:29:02,645
that part. Yeah, making a permanent homeless bureaucracy that is

2095
02:29:02,645 --> 02:29:04,485
bridged to nowhere where that, I believe is a bridge

2096
02:29:04,485 --> 02:29:11,521
to nowhere. As proven by western canadian models of endless

2097
02:29:11,521 --> 02:29:16,222
homeless intervention to the. Perpetual inconvenience of residents with little

2098
02:29:16,222 --> 02:29:19,704
to no improvement. That I'm worried. We are in the

2099
02:29:19,704 --> 02:29:23,664
early stages of. In conclusion, we must redefine. Our approach

2100
02:29:23,664 --> 02:29:27,184
to managing homeless encampments by removing self imposed restrictions that

2101
02:29:27,184 --> 02:29:31,904
have led to inefficiencies and public confusion by reconsidering our

2102
02:29:31,904 --> 02:29:35,744
current human rights. Human rights based policy which inhibits actual

2103
02:29:35,744 --> 02:29:40,765
enforcement and. Establishing a task force to coordinate. With successful

2104
02:29:40,765 --> 02:29:44,685
models like Kingston, we can balance compassion with practical governance.

2105
02:29:44,685 --> 02:29:47,925
This new, more balanced task force, with streamlined efforts, reduced

2106
02:29:47,925 --> 02:29:51,485
redundancies, and ensure both the community safety and respectful treatment

2107
02:29:51,485 --> 02:29:54,710
of the homeless. Let us empower our administration to act

2108
02:29:54,710 --> 02:29:58,750
decisively, creating a sustainable solutions that benefit our residents. Thank

2109
02:29:58,750 --> 02:30:02,464
you for considering my perspective. And thank you for coming

2110
02:30:02,464 --> 02:30:05,864
forward tonight. We appreciate your input. Questions to the deputy.

2111
02:30:08,507 --> 02:30:15,841
Yes, mayor Bolshekov. In your review. Have you come across?

2112
02:30:17,475 --> 02:30:24,031
Workable solutions. Because, as you know, The whole world essentially

2113
02:30:24,031 --> 02:30:25,911
is trying to deal with this issue at this point.

2114
02:30:27,719 --> 02:30:32,172
So when you put it to North America. Canada, ontario,

2115
02:30:32,172 --> 02:30:39,914
zunder bay. It's part of a problem. With addictions and

2116
02:30:39,914 --> 02:30:45,228
other issues. So I'm interested. You seem to know about

2117
02:30:45,228 --> 02:30:51,433
some other communities where they have had. Some attempts at

2118
02:30:51,433 --> 02:30:56,279
finding solutions. But. I've seen some of those cities where

2119
02:30:56,279 --> 02:31:01,590
they're supposed to be. And they're not. I guess I

2120
02:31:01,590 --> 02:31:06,330
would say. I would just refer. To early on because.

2121
02:31:08,845 --> 02:31:17,554
I guess. Two part answer. The Hamilton decision prevents. Overnight

2122
02:31:17,554 --> 02:31:25,733
encampments. Overnight encampments. From being evicted or removed. But less

2123
02:31:25,733 --> 02:31:28,253
clear is during the day. Right. So that's one approach

2124
02:31:28,253 --> 02:31:33,163
that Kingston is actively trying. And they have some municipal

2125
02:31:33,163 --> 02:31:37,123
legal advice that is headed by expert municipal lawyers. I

2126
02:31:37,123 --> 02:31:40,353
mean, they have a lot more funds down there. And

2127
02:31:40,353 --> 02:31:44,264
to your second point. If you look at the west

2128
02:31:44,264 --> 02:31:46,544
coast, it's a nightmare. Like, if you look at, like,

2129
02:31:46,544 --> 02:31:47,944
I mean, I don't want to bring up the states,

2130
02:31:47,944 --> 02:31:51,584
but Los Angeles is just like. A post apocalyptic nightmare.

2131
02:31:52,694 --> 02:31:55,054
There's drug use everywhere. All across the streets but western

2132
02:31:55,054 --> 02:32:00,961
Canada, British Columbia. There's these industries of servicing the homeless.

2133
02:32:00,961 --> 02:32:04,201
I don't think homeless experts exist because you can't find

2134
02:32:04,201 --> 02:32:07,081
a homeless expert that's ever actually solved the problem. It

2135
02:32:07,081 --> 02:32:11,611
just. Creates a bureaucracy. That just. It feeds on itself

2136
02:32:11,611 --> 02:32:14,145
and it just never goes away. And then the final

2137
02:32:14,145 --> 02:32:18,442
component to my answer is that. Obviously, addiction is a

2138
02:32:18,442 --> 02:32:23,395
horrible thing. It absorbs, like it eradicates your personality or

2139
02:32:23,395 --> 02:32:27,555
your connections. It codomates your life. You're just oblivious and

2140
02:32:27,555 --> 02:32:35,383
wasting away, but. I don't want to sustain. That behavior.

2141
02:32:36,996 --> 02:32:39,356
Or lifestyle longer. And if you make it more comfortable

2142
02:32:39,356 --> 02:32:42,116
to do drugs and you make it more easier with

2143
02:32:42,116 --> 02:32:45,956
all your services provided. I worry that rock bottom you

2144
02:32:45,956 --> 02:32:48,556
don't hit it for. Much longer, and people are stuck

2145
02:32:48,556 --> 02:32:52,036
in that cycle for much longer. But that's what I'll

2146
02:32:52,036 --> 02:33:01,616
say to that. Yes. And while you may not have

2147
02:33:01,616 --> 02:33:07,959
intended this, not all homeless are drug addicted. But. A

2148
02:33:07,959 --> 02:33:09,759
lot of stereotypes are going to come out tonight and.

2149
02:33:11,881 --> 02:33:15,330
We're trying to ask people to be respectful. Of people

2150
02:33:15,330 --> 02:33:18,890
in this predicament as they discuss what they would like

2151
02:33:18,890 --> 02:33:21,976
us to do in terms of policy. Can I just

2152
02:33:21,976 --> 02:33:25,016
say one thing to that? No, I'm just making a

2153
02:33:25,016 --> 02:33:28,089
statement too. You said about me that I had said

2154
02:33:28,089 --> 02:33:31,603
is only. No, it is something that was said that

2155
02:33:31,603 --> 02:33:34,883
I'm just reminding everyone in the gallery. I don't want

2156
02:33:34,883 --> 02:33:41,643
to debate that point. Councilor Chung. Thank you. Chair. Chair.

2157
02:33:41,643 --> 02:33:46,779
I heard the deputy say? He does not want encampments.

2158
02:33:48,149 --> 02:33:53,330
No permissible sites. Our shelters are full. He wants us

2159
02:33:53,330 --> 02:33:56,690
to use police enforcement to arrest ourselves out of the

2160
02:33:56,690 --> 02:34:03,304
situation. My question through you, chair to the deputy. Is.

2161
02:34:04,188 --> 02:34:07,108
If we remove these people and have police enforcement like

2162
02:34:07,108 --> 02:34:13,470
you suggest, where do they go? Okay. Just to characterize

2163
02:34:13,470 --> 02:34:17,855
my argument. I'm not saying nothing should be done. I'm

2164
02:34:17,855 --> 02:34:23,171
saying the extent of responsibility for the city. Is whether

2165
02:34:23,171 --> 02:34:26,971
our shared land should be used for makeshift encampments. I

2166
02:34:26,971 --> 02:34:30,211
think this falls under the DSAB and the provincial government

2167
02:34:30,211 --> 02:34:34,619
to service the many reasons people are homeless. We know

2168
02:34:34,619 --> 02:34:37,459
that there's mental health concerns where they struggle and they

2169
02:34:37,459 --> 02:34:42,678
can't really hold down. A different lifestyle or drug use.

2170
02:34:43,843 --> 02:34:49,306
Or. Just hard. Luck circumstance, but I think for the

2171
02:34:49,306 --> 02:34:55,321
city. To take on this mission. As to your question,

2172
02:34:55,321 --> 02:35:01,261
where they should go. Where did they go, historically? Where?

2173
02:35:03,136 --> 02:35:05,456
They weren't bothering anyone, basically, and it makes it harder

2174
02:35:05,456 --> 02:35:08,576
for the service providers, but there are. I think residents

2175
02:35:08,576 --> 02:35:11,216
concerns are more important. I mean, I was just at

2176
02:35:11,216 --> 02:35:14,828
Cam River park. It's a nightmare yesterday. There's garbage everywhere,

2177
02:35:14,828 --> 02:35:17,992
and they're tapping into the power. Free power. I mean,

2178
02:35:17,992 --> 02:35:19,912
if you guys approve that, that's fine, but I don't.

2179
02:35:19,912 --> 02:35:23,043
Think you guys approved them to use free power. Unless

2180
02:35:23,043 --> 02:35:26,936
you did, and I don't know about it. But, yeah,

2181
02:35:26,936 --> 02:35:31,614
I just think. I don't want to see a bloated,

2182
02:35:31,614 --> 02:35:34,094
homeless bureaucracy that doesn't actually solve anything, and I'd like

2183
02:35:34,094 --> 02:35:40,214
to see, like, actual, measurable goals instead of just bottomless.

2184
02:35:40,214 --> 02:35:43,174
Allocation of money because you could spend endless amounts of

2185
02:35:43,174 --> 02:35:49,787
money to not solve anything. Sorry, chair. I just want

2186
02:35:49,787 --> 02:35:52,279
to ask a follow up question. I just want to

2187
02:35:52,279 --> 02:35:55,252
ascertain where you're coming from with this. I think I

2188
02:35:55,252 --> 02:35:56,612
heard you say this, and correct me if I'm wrong.

2189
02:35:58,223 --> 02:36:04,791
That the people who interact with homeless people. Their rights

2190
02:36:04,791 --> 02:36:09,278
are more important than the homeless people's housing rights. Is

2191
02:36:09,278 --> 02:36:17,003
that what I just heard you say? No. Well. I

2192
02:36:17,003 --> 02:36:20,123
think this full extent of the housing rights isn't clear

2193
02:36:20,123 --> 02:36:22,203
like we know that from. The Hamilton decision, where we

2194
02:36:22,203 --> 02:36:25,816
don't even know what enforcement measures we can use. And

2195
02:36:25,816 --> 02:36:30,696
you look at Kingston, they're trying daytime bans of parks,

2196
02:36:30,696 --> 02:36:35,420
shared public spaces. I don't know. The full consequences of.

2197
02:36:37,226 --> 02:36:43,718
How the federally decided. Like housing rights. So I don't

2198
02:36:43,718 --> 02:36:47,521
know, maybe. I'm completely wrong. And everything goes a different

2199
02:36:47,521 --> 02:36:51,624
way. I believe in a liberal democracy, so I'm just

2200
02:36:51,624 --> 02:36:56,125
voicing how I see things, right? Now. Yeah, sorry, chair.

2201
02:36:56,125 --> 02:36:58,325
I don't really understand what the ask is, so I

2202
02:36:58,325 --> 02:37:02,328
don't. Have any more questions. Thank you. We will go

2203
02:37:02,328 --> 02:37:11,759
to Councilor Dirtuga next. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Thank you

2204
02:37:11,759 --> 02:37:14,865
for coming. For Mr. Ganye. I certainly agree with you.

2205
02:37:16,232 --> 02:37:20,739
That. I believe. We should revisit the human rights approach

2206
02:37:20,739 --> 02:37:27,891
and consider a compassionate approach. Now, I did try to

2207
02:37:27,891 --> 02:37:31,491
bring that forward, just so you know, but back in

2208
02:37:31,491 --> 02:37:35,610
January, but because. I wasn't present for that vote. I

2209
02:37:35,610 --> 02:37:39,191
was told I couldn't bring it back. For reconsideration. I

2210
02:37:39,191 --> 02:37:42,231
have tried to do that, and I mentioned other counselors

2211
02:37:42,231 --> 02:37:43,471
that if that's where they want to change. That's what

2212
02:37:43,471 --> 02:37:46,471
they should do. But until we do that, do you?

2213
02:37:46,471 --> 02:37:48,791
Have any suggestions on where we could go, though? Some

2214
02:37:48,791 --> 02:37:53,301
solid suggestions from where we can go other than. If

2215
02:37:53,301 --> 02:37:57,851
we can't get that reversed. You can go. With the

2216
02:37:57,851 --> 02:38:01,790
human rights based approach. You just can't use enforcement. I

2217
02:38:01,790 --> 02:38:05,310
mean, the guidelines for the distances between that you're. Looking

2218
02:38:05,310 --> 02:38:11,983
at tonight. Those aren't enforceable. It's just. Your task. Maybe

2219
02:38:11,983 --> 02:38:14,543
you can make the task force more balanced. That's one

2220
02:38:14,543 --> 02:38:20,132
thing, because. There's, like, the Lakead Conservatory board membership and,

2221
02:38:20,132 --> 02:38:24,313
I mean, There should be some kind of. Resident representation

2222
02:38:24,313 --> 02:38:26,673
on the task force to at least bring the resident

2223
02:38:26,673 --> 02:38:29,793
perspective to the team that's. Solving this problem under the

2224
02:38:29,793 --> 02:38:33,242
current framework. But barring. And that's what I was asking

2225
02:38:33,242 --> 02:38:37,824
for, was. A removal of the framework, the rum and

2226
02:38:37,824 --> 02:38:40,464
rights based approach, which limits what you can actually do.

2227
02:38:40,464 --> 02:38:43,956
About the problem. Just to clarify from the last questioner,

2228
02:38:46,238 --> 02:38:50,692
Okay. So just my final question then. If we continue

2229
02:38:50,692 --> 02:38:56,686
on this path and approve the recommendations tonight, As. Recommended

2230
02:38:56,686 --> 02:39:00,566
by administration. Do you see anything really substantially changing at

2231
02:39:00,566 --> 02:39:04,438
all as far as the accountants in Thunder Bay. What

2232
02:39:04,438 --> 02:39:12,232
are the deliverables of this approach? It's common thing across

2233
02:39:12,232 --> 02:39:14,832
a lot of social issues the city chooses to fund,

2234
02:39:14,832 --> 02:39:23,610
which. Are very well. Founded. Reasons. That. Are very relatable

2235
02:39:23,610 --> 02:39:26,370
to a lot of people, but we're not quantifying success.

2236
02:39:26,370 --> 02:39:29,290
We have no idea what success even looks like. We're

2237
02:39:29,290 --> 02:39:31,490
talking about these clusters. We're going to put clusters, people

2238
02:39:31,490 --> 02:39:36,966
together. I don't know. I just think you're going to

2239
02:39:36,966 --> 02:39:38,366
spend a lot of money. You're going to have to

2240
02:39:38,366 --> 02:39:45,231
spend 450,000 on staffing, I guess. To not. Enforce. The

2241
02:39:45,231 --> 02:39:48,919
guidelines. And then it's just going to be expensive. You're

2242
02:39:48,919 --> 02:39:52,086
going to keep spending money. And then. You're going to.

2243
02:39:52,086 --> 02:39:55,286
If there's any results, tell me. I would love to

2244
02:39:55,286 --> 02:40:00,005
just. Know what? The success looks like. But I don't

2245
02:40:00,005 --> 02:40:04,898
know what it even looks like. It's not defined. That's

2246
02:40:04,898 --> 02:40:07,631
how I see it, I guess. If I read between

2247
02:40:07,631 --> 02:40:10,671
the lines you're suggesting you don't see really any real.

2248
02:40:10,671 --> 02:40:16,035
Substantial changes. Correct. In the current framework. You can't even

2249
02:40:16,035 --> 02:40:18,795
hear the full suite of information from your administration. You're

2250
02:40:18,795 --> 02:40:20,955
going to give them an advice. They can't come back

2251
02:40:20,955 --> 02:40:25,454
to you with enforcement approaches, so. You're going to get

2252
02:40:25,454 --> 02:40:28,254
the housing advocate. When you guys took on the housing

2253
02:40:28,254 --> 02:40:31,854
advocate approach, from the federal body that was created, like,

2254
02:40:31,854 --> 02:40:36,013
5 seconds ago. Who's never solved homelessness anywhere. And you

2255
02:40:36,013 --> 02:40:38,533
took on that guideline. They knew. Exactly. What they were

2256
02:40:38,533 --> 02:40:40,333
setting you up to do. They put you on some

2257
02:40:40,333 --> 02:40:43,133
rails and you're. Just on the journey. Now you're going

2258
02:40:43,133 --> 02:40:46,627
down one. Singular approach that you can't ever touch. That

2259
02:40:46,627 --> 02:40:48,707
I don't think you knew you. Were accepting at the

2260
02:40:48,707 --> 02:40:52,687
time. Okay. Thank you. I appreciate it. Thank you for

2261
02:40:52,687 --> 02:40:59,964
coming forward. Thank you. Councilor aguwal. Thank you very much.

2262
02:40:59,964 --> 02:41:03,244
And thank you, Mr. Ganye, for being here again today.

2263
02:41:05,722 --> 02:41:08,595
He always bring another perspective to coun? Counsel and bring

2264
02:41:08,595 --> 02:41:15,815
a lot of good thought. In your presentation. You bring

2265
02:41:15,815 --> 02:41:18,632
up? The unhoused. We all are very concerned. We all

2266
02:41:18,632 --> 02:41:24,112
want housing. Is there another approach, other than enforcement. Let's

2267
02:41:24,112 --> 02:41:28,420
put a forcement aside. Because. That may not be. The

2268
02:41:28,420 --> 02:41:31,660
enforcement is not always the solution. Is there another approach

2269
02:41:31,660 --> 02:41:35,418
that you can see and feel that might work. Well,

2270
02:41:35,418 --> 02:41:38,138
one, actually. That's a good question. One cost effective approach

2271
02:41:38,138 --> 02:41:39,938
that I see, and this. Is stepping outside of what

2272
02:41:39,938 --> 02:41:42,298
I consider the city's responsibility. But if you want to

2273
02:41:42,298 --> 02:41:44,578
take it on. One thing is, you see a lot

2274
02:41:44,578 --> 02:41:48,481
of despair. In encantment residence and a lot of the

2275
02:41:48,481 --> 02:41:54,222
philosophical ingredients that make up their character. Are not as

2276
02:41:54,222 --> 02:41:57,222
complete as what we've experienced in our lives. I'll say

2277
02:41:57,222 --> 02:42:00,142
that's. Polite way of phrasing it, and this is pretty

2278
02:42:00,142 --> 02:42:02,382
cost effective. But if you just connect them with people

2279
02:42:02,382 --> 02:42:06,702
who understand their struggle and can introduce them to alternative

2280
02:42:06,702 --> 02:42:11,045
ways of thinking. I think that would really broaden their

2281
02:42:11,045 --> 02:42:13,445
horizons in a cost effective way, because you just have

2282
02:42:13,445 --> 02:42:15,405
to find the people that have experienced it and connect

2283
02:42:15,405 --> 02:42:21,168
them as a mentorship or something. And. You can give

2284
02:42:21,168 --> 02:42:23,008
them, I don't know, some kind of hope or some

2285
02:42:23,008 --> 02:42:27,937
kind of. Something, just something different. I'm not religious. Even

2286
02:42:27,937 --> 02:42:31,947
religions, like religions work for free. Is it really that

2287
02:42:31,947 --> 02:42:35,147
much worse? And I'm not religious, like I said, but

2288
02:42:35,147 --> 02:42:40,713
in religions. There's a lot of that moral character strewed

2289
02:42:40,713 --> 02:42:43,353
along the myths. So is it? Really that bad of

2290
02:42:43,353 --> 02:42:47,008
someone I don't know donates to a church? If they

2291
02:42:47,008 --> 02:42:48,448
are able to donate to a church. You know what

2292
02:42:48,448 --> 02:42:51,089
I mean? They've found this new meaning in their life

2293
02:42:51,089 --> 02:42:53,969
that's separate from the despair of just like wasting away

2294
02:42:53,969 --> 02:43:00,281
on drug use. And. I think that's something you could

2295
02:43:00,281 --> 02:43:03,521
do under this approach. I realize you got a similar

2296
02:43:03,521 --> 02:43:05,961
answer to Councilor Gertrude. Just maybe the way you asked

2297
02:43:05,961 --> 02:43:07,401
it, I don't know. Or. Maybe I just thought of

2298
02:43:07,401 --> 02:43:11,371
it, I don't know. Mr. Ganye, we know that homelessness

2299
02:43:11,371 --> 02:43:15,611
and unhoused are for various factors. One is cost of

2300
02:43:15,611 --> 02:43:21,505
housing or lack of affordable housing. Another is mental illness.

2301
02:43:22,834 --> 02:43:26,954
And another might be addictions. Some are all combined and

2302
02:43:26,954 --> 02:43:31,975
some are individual. So would it not be more appropriate

2303
02:43:31,975 --> 02:43:36,215
than to look at it in a broader perspective rather

2304
02:43:36,215 --> 02:43:42,022
than a blanket perspective. I agree. But then that's why

2305
02:43:42,022 --> 02:43:47,217
I'm coming at this. From? What's the city's responsibility? Should

2306
02:43:47,217 --> 02:43:50,417
they be at the full holistic approach, or are they

2307
02:43:50,417 --> 02:43:52,937
just looking at the issue of the shared public lands

2308
02:43:52,937 --> 02:43:56,297
and the consequences to residents. The provincial government are trying

2309
02:43:56,297 --> 02:43:59,257
to solve those elements. That you're referring to, and there's

2310
02:43:59,257 --> 02:44:01,097
a lot of programs and a lot of efforts to

2311
02:44:01,097 --> 02:44:03,177
do that. What I just don't want to see is

2312
02:44:03,177 --> 02:44:05,977
us try to do that have no results and have

2313
02:44:05,977 --> 02:44:09,626
a bloated bureaucracy. And then we won't be any further

2314
02:44:09,626 --> 02:44:12,106
ahead. Residents will be angry and the homeless won't. Be.

2315
02:44:13,977 --> 02:44:17,057
Like they won't be serviced in a way that I

2316
02:44:17,057 --> 02:44:18,937
don't know, but I could be wrong. What do I

2317
02:44:18,937 --> 02:44:23,350
know? That's just what I think. Okay. Through the chair.

2318
02:44:23,350 --> 02:44:29,384
My last question through you. Chari is. You brought up

2319
02:44:29,384 --> 02:44:33,371
the different orders of government and having. Them have. Take

2320
02:44:33,371 --> 02:44:38,265
some responsibility. And are you aware that. Councilor, have you

2321
02:44:38,265 --> 02:44:41,265
not expended your three questions? This is. My third. This

2322
02:44:41,265 --> 02:44:46,878
is your third. Thank you. Are you aware that the

2323
02:44:46,878 --> 02:44:53,777
provincial government. Has increased their funding by $90 million. To

2324
02:44:53,777 --> 02:44:57,897
our area and also $16 million to DSAP for their

2325
02:44:57,897 --> 02:45:03,017
housing. So an increase of a total of $106,000,000 just

2326
02:45:03,017 --> 02:45:07,471
to Thunder Bay and area to help. For this situation.

2327
02:45:08,965 --> 02:45:16,016
Yes. Good news. Thank you. Seeing no further questions. Thank

2328
02:45:16,016 --> 02:45:20,705
you for coming forward. We appreciate it. Council, did you

2329
02:45:20,705 --> 02:45:23,185
want to go to questions of administration on these specific

2330
02:45:23,185 --> 02:45:27,385
items? Because the next deputy is a little bit different.

2331
02:45:27,385 --> 02:45:30,862
I think they're more focused on a lot. What's your

2332
02:45:30,862 --> 02:45:38,844
preference? Do you want to wait? It is. Unlimited rounds

2333
02:45:38,844 --> 02:45:43,616
with the report. So we'll ask questions of the deputations

2334
02:45:43,616 --> 02:45:47,176
during that time. So we'll go to the next deputation.

2335
02:45:47,176 --> 02:45:50,216
Thank you, chair. So we receive correspondence from Aldo Roberto

2336
02:45:50,216 --> 02:45:54,736
Fort. William Business District improvement area, dated June 21. Requesting

2337
02:45:54,736 --> 02:45:59,190
an opportunity to come before this evening. Thank. You. It's

2338
02:45:59,190 --> 02:46:03,365
a pleasure to be here. Mr. Mayor, councilor's administration. Norm,

2339
02:46:03,365 --> 02:46:08,859
congratulations. Your retirement, that's for sure. I'm here tonight. As

2340
02:46:08,859 --> 02:46:12,099
the intern chair of the BIA. We're trying to get

2341
02:46:12,099 --> 02:46:14,099
someone else in there. So I'm just there to help

2342
02:46:14,099 --> 02:46:18,042
them and pass it on to somebody else. I hope

2343
02:46:18,042 --> 02:46:22,120
tonight when I'm speaking. I don't want to be disrespectful

2344
02:46:22,120 --> 02:46:26,665
to anybody. I'm just trying to tell the truth and

2345
02:46:26,665 --> 02:46:30,465
just mention facts. That's it. So. However the facts come

2346
02:46:30,465 --> 02:46:32,465
out. That's the way it is, and I'm doing it.

2347
02:46:32,465 --> 02:46:37,684
From the BIA perspective. Okay. We would ask you not

2348
02:46:37,684 --> 02:46:46,721
to identify. Individuals or individual. Encampments? No. We can speak

2349
02:46:46,721 --> 02:46:49,521
to a high level. Absolutely. And if you see me

2350
02:46:49,521 --> 02:46:53,353
hearing, of course, please. Rein me in because I do

2351
02:46:53,353 --> 02:46:56,869
get emotional when I'm speaking about these things. Are there

2352
02:46:56,869 --> 02:47:00,067
enough of us to do that? Could use a few

2353
02:47:00,067 --> 02:47:04,307
more. So I'm going to start out about how I

2354
02:47:04,307 --> 02:47:09,283
found out about this report. Normally, Thursday. The media gets

2355
02:47:09,283 --> 02:47:13,034
the information, gets all the reports. Lets the public know

2356
02:47:13,034 --> 02:47:15,274
what's going on, et cetera, et cetera. I got a

2357
02:47:15,274 --> 02:47:21,280
phone call. About 930. 10:00 on Saturday night. Had plants

2358
02:47:21,280 --> 02:47:23,480
do something Sunday. So when I get to spoke up,

2359
02:47:23,480 --> 02:47:27,884
the gentleman's back there. Actually, he bought a building. Right

2360
02:47:27,884 --> 02:47:32,746
across the street from this location. You're thinking of. Okay.

2361
02:47:32,746 --> 02:47:36,454
He just bought it. He had no idea. That it

2362
02:47:36,454 --> 02:47:41,265
was going to become an encampment. The gentleman that's adjacent

2363
02:47:41,265 --> 02:47:44,702
to that building. Is from out of town. He just

2364
02:47:44,702 --> 02:47:49,342
bought that old audience theater or storage place. Right now

2365
02:47:49,342 --> 02:47:51,582
he was going to spend up to a million dollars

2366
02:47:51,582 --> 02:47:55,102
in renovations and he wanted to buy the parking. Lot,

2367
02:47:55,102 --> 02:47:58,960
but was told it's not available. He wants to buy

2368
02:47:58,960 --> 02:48:01,600
the parking lot so he could do demonstrations, et cetera.

2369
02:48:03,756 --> 02:48:06,276
Now. I haven't even met the gentleman. I don't know

2370
02:48:06,276 --> 02:48:08,636
if he's. In town. Out of town. He doesn't even

2371
02:48:08,636 --> 02:48:11,956
know what's going on, so I'm. Going to just jump

2372
02:48:11,956 --> 02:48:14,916
around a lot, because even today I didn't get a

2373
02:48:14,916 --> 02:48:17,676
chance to go to my computer till today to start

2374
02:48:17,676 --> 02:48:20,996
writing things down, and this is such a complex issue

2375
02:48:20,996 --> 02:48:23,276
that I'm just going to go eclectic jumping from one.

2376
02:48:23,999 --> 02:48:26,359
To another. To another. So just try to follow me,

2377
02:48:26,359 --> 02:48:30,420
okay? So I want to mention those businesses because that's

2378
02:48:30,420 --> 02:48:35,069
so important, because we're trying. To revitalize the area. The

2379
02:48:35,069 --> 02:48:40,389
BIA is spending $120,000 or more of a reserve to

2380
02:48:40,389 --> 02:48:43,709
enhance the area. This year alone, we've hired our own

2381
02:48:43,709 --> 02:48:47,232
security. We've hired junk await to clean up the area.

2382
02:48:48,740 --> 02:48:51,220
We've ordered, like, tons of banners, new banners, et cetera,

2383
02:48:51,220 --> 02:48:55,223
to make things exciting. We've ordered twice as much flowers

2384
02:48:55,223 --> 02:48:58,223
for the area, and we're getting more pots. Potholders, et

2385
02:48:58,223 --> 02:49:01,668
cetera. We're getting more garbage cans. We're. Trying to get

2386
02:49:01,668 --> 02:49:06,148
the area revitalized. And we have a big event coming

2387
02:49:06,148 --> 02:49:10,801
in September. Guess where it starts. The corner of Simpson

2388
02:49:10,801 --> 02:49:17,113
and Victoria. The exact corner where. Your supposed encampments going

2389
02:49:17,113 --> 02:49:20,473
to be, and the gentleman that bought that building was

2390
02:49:20,473 --> 02:49:26,026
going to. Do. Like a museum. Pieces outside of motorcycles,

2391
02:49:26,026 --> 02:49:30,226
et cetera, bikes, et cetera. Anyway, I'll leave that part

2392
02:49:30,226 --> 02:49:34,371
there for information for you, okay? And when they said

2393
02:49:34,371 --> 02:49:39,110
about consultation. In the report, it's mentioned that they consulted.

2394
02:49:41,457 --> 02:49:46,286
The people that are affected, the homeless people. They consulted

2395
02:49:46,286 --> 02:49:49,646
this task force, which has no business on it and

2396
02:49:49,646 --> 02:49:53,541
no homeowner that lives. In this area. They did not

2397
02:49:53,541 --> 02:49:57,342
consult. Any homeowner in the downtown area. If you look

2398
02:49:57,342 --> 02:49:59,902
out the window, there's three. Big apartment buildings that has

2399
02:49:59,902 --> 02:50:04,268
a ton of seniors in there. There's tons of businesses

2400
02:50:04,268 --> 02:50:09,779
downtown. Not. One was contacted. And as chair of the

2401
02:50:09,779 --> 02:50:15,059
BIA, I wasn't contacted. Nobody. Okay, now. I was told

2402
02:50:15,059 --> 02:50:18,179
that there was no time for consultation. This morning we

2403
02:50:18,179 --> 02:50:20,779
had a letter printed up. By our coordinator. She went

2404
02:50:20,779 --> 02:50:23,019
around to every business in the area, handed in the

2405
02:50:23,019 --> 02:50:25,059
area. They're. Starting to freak out. You'll probably get a

2406
02:50:25,059 --> 02:50:30,538
lot of phone calls and messages. Angry people because. This

2407
02:50:30,538 --> 02:50:36,339
is their investment and. They. Respect to be approached and

2408
02:50:36,339 --> 02:50:38,619
say, hey, what do you think? Now, when we do

2409
02:50:38,619 --> 02:50:40,899
consultations, correct? Me if I'm wrong, because I've been here

2410
02:50:40,899 --> 02:50:43,859
16 years as a counselor. We should talk to everybody

2411
02:50:43,859 --> 02:50:50,170
that's impacted. Everybody's impacted, not just one group. Because you

2412
02:50:50,170 --> 02:50:52,370
want to get a broad sense of what's going on

2413
02:50:52,370 --> 02:50:58,659
and. Thank you, Manager Norm. For saying you base your

2414
02:50:58,659 --> 02:51:02,297
decisions on information. But from what I'm reading, the report,

2415
02:51:02,297 --> 02:51:05,977
you're getting limited information, and it's. Not to be disrespectful

2416
02:51:05,977 --> 02:51:09,417
to anybody in administration, but you're not getting all the

2417
02:51:09,417 --> 02:51:11,657
information. That's why it's hard for you to make a

2418
02:51:11,657 --> 02:51:13,737
decision sometimes. And I don't say it happens all the

2419
02:51:13,737 --> 02:51:16,457
time, but it does happen because there's so much information

2420
02:51:16,457 --> 02:51:19,177
on this that was not in the report. If I

2421
02:51:19,177 --> 02:51:21,952
asked you. Was it cost for those? Houses, those little

2422
02:51:21,952 --> 02:51:24,512
houses they want to set up. Nobody knows, but I'll

2423
02:51:24,512 --> 02:51:27,832
tell you because. I looked it up. And don't be

2424
02:51:27,832 --> 02:51:32,095
fooled. They say this is a pilot project. You know

2425
02:51:32,095 --> 02:51:35,215
and I know pilot projects will be there forever. Once

2426
02:51:35,215 --> 02:51:39,135
you're there, you're. There forever, and this will affect the

2427
02:51:39,135 --> 02:51:42,677
rest of the city. Because this is only going to

2428
02:51:42,677 --> 02:51:45,637
take care of 25 to 30 people. What about the

2429
02:51:45,637 --> 02:51:47,037
other people? That are out there, where are they going

2430
02:51:47,037 --> 02:51:49,677
to go? They're still going to have encampments they're still

2431
02:51:49,677 --> 02:51:51,197
going to have tents. They're still going to be wherever.

2432
02:51:53,071 --> 02:51:55,991
The solution tonight or the direction tonight? From what I

2433
02:51:55,991 --> 02:52:00,591
listened to the last council meeting. Council Pascalino. Councilor Benz.

2434
02:52:00,591 --> 02:52:02,431
A few others were talking about. Hey, when you come

2435
02:52:02,431 --> 02:52:05,511
back with a report. There should be a report with

2436
02:52:05,511 --> 02:52:08,911
a location where we could put just about everybody there

2437
02:52:08,911 --> 02:52:13,526
with security. A cleaning company. All the services there, that

2438
02:52:13,526 --> 02:52:16,046
minimal impact on the rest of the people. That was

2439
02:52:16,046 --> 02:52:20,086
the direction I didn't see a direction saying permanent site

2440
02:52:20,086 --> 02:52:24,446
with buildings, et cetera. And in the downtown areas. Okay,

2441
02:52:24,446 --> 02:52:26,566
so I'm going to jump around. So follow me. This

2442
02:52:26,566 --> 02:52:32,944
is going to be. Fun. We have. 29 empty spaces

2443
02:52:32,944 --> 02:52:35,144
in the BIA right now, business basis that can be

2444
02:52:35,144 --> 02:52:41,694
rented. 29. And about a five, six block radius. Do

2445
02:52:41,694 --> 02:52:43,254
you know much taxes that would bring in if it

2446
02:52:43,254 --> 02:52:45,894
was rented? You know what the values of those properties

2447
02:52:45,894 --> 02:52:48,614
would be if they were all fully rented, the values

2448
02:52:48,614 --> 02:52:52,555
would go up. There's also around that area on Simpson.

2449
02:52:52,555 --> 02:52:55,475
In those areas, there's 22 empty spaces. For a total

2450
02:52:55,475 --> 02:52:59,835
of about 51 empty spaces. Now, we have an encampment

2451
02:52:59,835 --> 02:53:04,115
there. Let's. Bring more people downtown. That's really going to

2452
02:53:04,115 --> 02:53:08,863
help. Those empty spaces that's going to attract new businesses.

2453
02:53:10,352 --> 02:53:15,357
It's not going to happen. So my questions are, and

2454
02:53:15,357 --> 02:53:17,477
I'm going to ask you to defer this report. My

2455
02:53:17,477 --> 02:53:20,691
questions will be, and I'll start asking the questions. Tell

2456
02:53:20,691 --> 02:53:24,611
me how this encampment is going to enhance the area.

2457
02:53:24,611 --> 02:53:27,692
Tell me how it's. Going to bring new business. Tell

2458
02:53:27,692 --> 02:53:29,932
me how it's going to make it more comfortable for

2459
02:53:29,932 --> 02:53:35,162
people shopping, working and especially. Living in the area. Those

2460
02:53:35,162 --> 02:53:37,876
people. Are going now. And there's also people in that

2461
02:53:37,876 --> 02:53:40,116
district housing there, seniors that are scared. To go out

2462
02:53:40,116 --> 02:53:42,796
at night. How's this going to help them? And I'm

2463
02:53:42,796 --> 02:53:46,236
not? Trying to be disrespectful, but I know that encampments,

2464
02:53:46,236 --> 02:53:48,116
when you have encampments that are mentioned in the report

2465
02:53:48,116 --> 02:53:51,036
itself. There was violence, there was fights there. Was murders.

2466
02:53:53,267 --> 02:53:56,747
Everything goes on in there because there's no rules, there's

2467
02:53:56,747 --> 02:54:02,537
no security. None. Okay. I called Peterborough and I talked

2468
02:54:02,537 --> 02:54:06,337
to the mayor, the mayor's assistant, Jeremy, to. Get information

2469
02:54:06,337 --> 02:54:16,206
about. These so called. Pallet facilities. It's located. 1.2 km

2470
02:54:16,206 --> 02:54:20,326
away from the downtown. 1.2 that wasn't mentioned in the

2471
02:54:20,326 --> 02:54:24,846
report. I didn't see that anywhere. The cabins cost 2.4

2472
02:54:24,846 --> 02:54:32,496
million. For 50 people. 2.4 million. Operating costs were 1.9

2473
02:54:32,496 --> 02:54:38,376
million a year. 1.9 million. The province gave them 2.5.

2474
02:54:38,376 --> 02:54:42,934
Which leaves about 1.8 million. Dollars in operating for the

2475
02:54:42,934 --> 02:54:49,461
city to take on. 1.8 million. So when you get

2476
02:54:49,461 --> 02:54:52,781
information, you should have got this information too. I have

2477
02:54:52,781 --> 02:54:56,101
to phone Peterborough, get to hold the person. I tried

2478
02:54:56,101 --> 02:54:58,221
to phone a few other cities that are dealing with

2479
02:54:58,221 --> 02:55:00,621
this. I already talked to people in the past because.

2480
02:55:02,319 --> 02:55:04,319
I was on the poverty reduction committee and on district

2481
02:55:04,319 --> 02:55:06,799
social services, so I've had a lot of conversations. Two

2482
02:55:06,799 --> 02:55:11,616
minutes. How many? Two minutes. Pardon me. Okay, I'm going

2483
02:55:11,616 --> 02:55:14,955
to try to be as fast I possibly can. DSAP.

2484
02:55:14,955 --> 02:55:16,795
I want to talk about DsAP just a little bit,

2485
02:55:16,795 --> 02:55:18,795
and it's already. Been mentioned. I won't go over too

2486
02:55:18,795 --> 02:55:20,995
much, but I want someone to ask me after. To

2487
02:55:20,995 --> 02:55:26,117
expand on that question. Dsap has been doing this job

2488
02:55:26,117 --> 02:55:33,237
for years. They created about 170 something spaces in the

2489
02:55:33,237 --> 02:55:38,385
last five years. 140 are occupied, 30 more are being

2490
02:55:38,385 --> 02:55:41,345
built. There is a transitional housing coming up by the

2491
02:55:41,345 --> 02:55:44,105
indigenous. Society closer to the boys and girls Club, which

2492
02:55:44,105 --> 02:55:47,985
will have about, I think it's 51. More spaces, and

2493
02:55:47,985 --> 02:55:50,945
there's other organizations out there that are looking to provide.

2494
02:55:52,519 --> 02:55:56,239
Housing for these individuals. Why are you taking on that

2495
02:55:56,239 --> 02:56:00,774
responsibility when you don't have to? That's a question I

2496
02:56:00,774 --> 02:56:05,221
don't understand. Okay, finally I'll say that the drug strategy.

2497
02:56:07,138 --> 02:56:10,985
Belongs at the health unit. We're dealing with mental illness

2498
02:56:10,985 --> 02:56:15,345
and we're dealing with addiction. That's not. The cities. As

2499
02:56:15,345 --> 02:56:18,465
manager McGill pointed out, that's not the city's responsibility. Those

2500
02:56:18,465 --> 02:56:21,985
are. Health issues. Why are we dealing with it? And

2501
02:56:21,985 --> 02:56:26,025
as you said, our administration is, Mr. Alberto, we're not

2502
02:56:26,025 --> 02:56:29,105
discussing the health strategy. Okay. Sorry. I was just throwing

2503
02:56:29,105 --> 02:56:31,990
that in there. Okay. And when you look at other

2504
02:56:31,990 --> 02:56:36,150
countries, other cities in Europe, there's no encampments. Downtown. In

2505
02:56:36,150 --> 02:56:39,750
the downtowns in Europe, they're located further out. Halifax is

2506
02:56:39,750 --> 02:56:42,190
in a strategy right now, where they're moving their encampment

2507
02:56:42,190 --> 02:56:44,750
or people who are in the downtown areas out because

2508
02:56:44,750 --> 02:56:47,670
it's affecting their tourism, their business, et cetera. I'll wrap

2509
02:56:47,670 --> 02:56:52,658
it up there. I am requ? Requesting that. Council deferred

2510
02:56:52,658 --> 02:56:57,550
this issue. Until the businesses, the homeowners and the rest

2511
02:56:57,550 --> 02:57:01,710
of the city, the chamber included, get a chance to

2512
02:57:01,710 --> 02:57:06,103
read the report and respond to report. Thank you for

2513
02:57:06,103 --> 02:57:08,783
that. And if there's any questions, happy to answer. And

2514
02:57:08,783 --> 02:57:14,743
just on that. Ratification is on the 15 July? Yes.

2515
02:57:14,743 --> 02:57:19,343
Okay. So there is time for members wishing or citizens

2516
02:57:19,343 --> 02:57:22,063
wishing. To. And could you mention the process of people

2517
02:57:22,063 --> 02:57:25,753
at home could listen to this. The process will. Be

2518
02:57:25,753 --> 02:57:28,593
that tonight we're at committee and we make a decision

2519
02:57:28,593 --> 02:57:32,574
at the committee level. And that committee decision goes up

2520
02:57:32,574 --> 02:57:36,720
to city council on the 15 July. And it can

2521
02:57:36,720 --> 02:57:40,160
be redef or revoted or there's all sorts of things

2522
02:57:40,160 --> 02:57:43,728
that can occur. So it's a two stage process. The

2523
02:57:43,728 --> 02:57:46,968
committee and then city council. Okay. And can someone. Ask

2524
02:57:46,968 --> 02:57:48,968
me a question about distances when you get a chance.

2525
02:57:48,968 --> 02:57:53,790
Sorry. We have questions for you. We have Councilor Gurtuga.

2526
02:57:55,853 --> 02:58:00,293
Thank you, Mr. Chair. Through you to Mr. Roberto. Thank

2527
02:58:00,293 --> 02:58:03,693
you for coming forward. I appreciate it. You talked a

2528
02:58:03,693 --> 02:58:06,893
little bit about DCEp. Can you just expound a little

2529
02:58:06,893 --> 02:58:14,809
bit about what DSAB's? Role is. With homelessness. Thank you

2530
02:58:14,809 --> 02:58:18,041
for asking. You have the chair of dsap over there?

2531
02:58:19,735 --> 02:58:22,735
I asked councilor Hamilton to look up some information for

2532
02:58:22,735 --> 02:58:25,375
me, but I never received it, so. I asked the

2533
02:58:25,375 --> 02:58:29,135
chair myself. I reached out and here's what I asked

2534
02:58:29,135 --> 02:58:34,374
them. I said, When all the shelters are full. What

2535
02:58:34,374 --> 02:58:38,549
does Dsap do? What do they do? Mr. Roberto, I

2536
02:58:38,549 --> 02:58:43,641
think we have the chair of dsab here. Yeah. So

2537
02:58:43,641 --> 02:58:46,921
any matters pertaining to DSAB, I think we will defer

2538
02:58:46,921 --> 02:58:51,021
to that. Yeah, but I don't know if I've got

2539
02:58:51,021 --> 02:58:55,497
the answer. From the CEO of DSAP. I think it's

2540
02:58:55,497 --> 02:58:57,977
important that I read it to you. Because it contains

2541
02:58:57,977 --> 02:59:02,177
information that think it's pertinent to this discussion. So he's

2542
02:59:02,177 --> 02:59:03,737
asked me the question. I think I have the right

2543
02:59:03,737 --> 02:59:07,017
to respond. And you could defer. To the chair after

2544
02:59:07,017 --> 02:59:10,511
and say, hey. That'd be great if you have an

2545
02:59:10,511 --> 02:59:12,471
answer from the d shop. Yes, I do. Yes. Then

2546
02:59:12,471 --> 02:59:16,728
go ahead. So when emerging shelters are full. Dsap will

2547
02:59:16,728 --> 02:59:19,989
pay for hotels. It is also to note that some

2548
02:59:19,989 --> 02:59:23,509
organizations that provide outreach services have also been paying for

2549
02:59:23,509 --> 02:59:27,629
hotel stays using their funding for those people do not

2550
02:59:27,629 --> 02:59:30,229
wish to stay at a shelter, I. E. Couples. Due

2551
02:59:30,229 --> 02:59:32,977
to human rights. It is my understanding that they have

2552
02:59:32,977 --> 02:59:38,508
received funding under the federal research. Researching home program. Now,

2553
02:59:38,508 --> 02:59:40,388
I don't know if you knew that or not, but

2554
02:59:40,388 --> 02:59:44,363
there it is. Here's the other part. Capacity, right. In

2555
02:59:44,363 --> 02:59:48,283
the last few years, we have 173 transitional supported housing

2556
02:59:48,283 --> 02:59:51,403
units funded by DSAP. In the last five years, 130

2557
02:59:51,403 --> 02:59:57,766
an hour in operations. 41 more expected emergency shelter capacity

2558
02:59:57,766 --> 03:00:02,579
in Thunder Bay has also increased this past winter. And

2559
03:00:02,579 --> 03:00:07,285
more supported houses is in place. So this app is

2560
03:00:07,285 --> 03:00:11,360
doing a great job. Okay, they've got people at Shelter

2561
03:00:11,360 --> 03:00:14,120
House. They got people in outreach programs going to the

2562
03:00:14,120 --> 03:00:17,240
tents, talking to the individuals, trying to get them into

2563
03:00:17,240 --> 03:00:22,411
housing. Let them do their job. Let them partner with

2564
03:00:22,411 --> 03:00:26,491
organizations. Let them build these facilities, save the city millions

2565
03:00:26,491 --> 03:00:30,638
of dollars. Why are we getting involved? We could support

2566
03:00:30,638 --> 03:00:34,318
them. We can lobby for them. We could do everything.

2567
03:00:34,318 --> 03:00:37,598
For them, but we shouldn't be doing their job. And

2568
03:00:37,598 --> 03:00:39,118
they have been doing a good job in the last

2569
03:00:39,118 --> 03:00:41,518
couple of years. I know that because I know that

2570
03:00:41,518 --> 03:00:44,918
at least 252 people have been placed. And I know

2571
03:00:44,918 --> 03:00:49,591
that our count for homelessness went from Ford. 75 about

2572
03:00:49,591 --> 03:00:53,919
five, six years ago, to 225 now. And according to

2573
03:00:53,919 --> 03:00:56,799
DSAP, in the last ten days, dated account of the

2574
03:00:56,799 --> 03:01:01,567
tents that are out there. There's 70. Ten. And not

2575
03:01:01,567 --> 03:01:03,007
one person in a tent. There might be two or

2576
03:01:03,007 --> 03:01:06,327
three, but they said there's. 70 tents out there. Unfortunately,

2577
03:01:06,327 --> 03:01:08,887
some have been sold in the last little while, and

2578
03:01:08,887 --> 03:01:10,407
I can't say what's happened in the last ten days.

2579
03:01:10,407 --> 03:01:12,407
And more tents have come on. Board. I don't know

2580
03:01:12,407 --> 03:01:15,007
if you got that information, but that's important information to

2581
03:01:15,007 --> 03:01:18,367
know. Okay, I'll wait for next question. Sorry. Thank you.

2582
03:01:20,730 --> 03:01:23,330
Councilor Gretuki, you still have the floor. Yeah. Thank you

2583
03:01:23,330 --> 03:01:27,596
very much for that answer. With this new proposal tonight.

2584
03:01:27,596 --> 03:01:32,078
Do you see? I guess. Any change? To be any

2585
03:01:32,078 --> 03:01:37,051
impactful change. For people on the McVicker area, for other

2586
03:01:37,051 --> 03:01:42,260
areas of city. I guess. Ask the last. Dedication of

2587
03:01:42,260 --> 03:01:44,340
the same question. Do you see any change with this

2588
03:01:44,340 --> 03:01:48,910
coming forward? Yes, I do. Right. Now. There's 33 social

2589
03:01:48,910 --> 03:01:54,030
agencies, at least in the downtown Fort William area. 33.

2590
03:01:54,030 --> 03:01:57,630
We, as a city are doing amazing work trying to

2591
03:01:57,630 --> 03:02:02,198
help people. Okay. On this side of the city, the

2592
03:02:02,198 --> 03:02:08,492
downtown. Have a tent city already. We have encampment, and

2593
03:02:08,492 --> 03:02:12,147
we're doing all we can. To assimilate it, work with

2594
03:02:12,147 --> 03:02:15,492
it. Now you want to throw more people on? You

2595
03:02:15,492 --> 03:02:19,340
want to throw more and more people. And permanent places.

2596
03:02:19,340 --> 03:02:22,308
You want to make them permanent? I don't understand that.

2597
03:02:24,130 --> 03:02:26,610
Because you could locate them in other areas. And I'll

2598
03:02:26,610 --> 03:02:31,597
give you an example. The bus. Station on Fort William

2599
03:02:31,597 --> 03:02:35,958
Road that's fenced in. They fix the buses, et cetera.

2600
03:02:35,958 --> 03:02:38,958
That doesn't affect very many people because it's, fenced in.

2601
03:02:38,958 --> 03:02:42,718
It's on Fort William Road. You got people working there.

2602
03:02:42,718 --> 03:02:44,838
It's? Close to down. As close to the city, as

2603
03:02:44,838 --> 03:02:46,078
close to the part. You're right. There by the bus.

2604
03:02:48,060 --> 03:02:50,300
So there are other locations. Why were they not brought

2605
03:02:50,300 --> 03:02:54,610
forward? Why didn't we partner with the conservatory area or

2606
03:02:54,610 --> 03:02:59,603
some other area? Why are we only getting. Two choices,

2607
03:02:59,603 --> 03:03:01,123
and we don't even know what the second choice was

2608
03:03:01,123 --> 03:03:03,123
that they refused. I still don't know where it is.

2609
03:03:03,123 --> 03:03:07,315
It wasn't mentioned. So those are the things. Mr. Roberto,

2610
03:03:07,315 --> 03:03:09,995
the question was, do you think this is going to

2611
03:03:09,995 --> 03:03:16,168
aid absolutely. Has been affected downtown? To answer, no. My

2612
03:03:16,168 --> 03:03:18,808
question was, do you think that if we go with

2613
03:03:18,808 --> 03:03:23,312
administration's recommendations tonight. That there are any positive change will

2614
03:03:23,312 --> 03:03:27,752
come forward as far as the housing and accountment issues

2615
03:03:27,752 --> 03:03:32,089
in the thunder bay. Long term, I think this is

2616
03:03:32,089 --> 03:03:36,293
going to destroy our city, not make it better. Any

2617
03:03:36,293 --> 03:03:39,596
encampment. Any. If you look at any city with encampments

2618
03:03:39,596 --> 03:03:43,436
in core areas, you destroyed the core. Area and they're

2619
03:03:43,436 --> 03:03:46,396
doing everything they can to reverse their decisions. What we

2620
03:03:46,396 --> 03:03:50,876
should be looking for is supporting shelter house. Supporting grace

2621
03:03:50,876 --> 03:03:56,064
place supporting. Salvation army, supporting the services that are already

2622
03:03:56,064 --> 03:03:59,464
there. Give them more money. Let them do their job.

2623
03:03:59,464 --> 03:04:02,614
They've been doing it up to this point. You've answered

2624
03:04:02,614 --> 03:04:04,254
the question. I answered the question. Sorry. I just want

2625
03:04:04,254 --> 03:04:07,014
that little more because. I think it's pertinent. Sorry. Thank

2626
03:04:07,014 --> 03:04:12,230
you, Mr. Chair. And my final question. I plan to

2627
03:04:12,230 --> 03:04:17,702
put forward a referral tonight. Because we've only had this

2628
03:04:17,702 --> 03:04:21,342
report since Friday, and, of course, there's been absolutely no

2629
03:04:21,342 --> 03:04:25,142
consultation with the community, the business sector. You're coming from

2630
03:04:25,142 --> 03:04:29,308
the BIA. I know. It's been suggested it'll be ratified

2631
03:04:29,308 --> 03:04:32,108
on the 15th, which is less. Than three weeks away.

2632
03:04:32,108 --> 03:04:35,028
That doesn't give it ample time for any consultation, and

2633
03:04:35,028 --> 03:04:40,840
I don't see any change coming forward. With. These recommendations

2634
03:04:40,840 --> 03:04:45,507
tonight, so. You're comfortable with the referral at this point?

2635
03:04:45,507 --> 03:04:48,507
For consultation, I guess, is my question. Absolutely. Would you

2636
03:04:48,507 --> 03:04:50,947
prefer. Yeah. Okay. I thought I heard you mention that.

2637
03:04:50,947 --> 03:04:53,067
Okay. Absolutely. Okay. Thank you. For doing. I heard you

2638
03:04:53,067 --> 03:04:56,267
mention. Okay, thank you very much. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

2639
03:04:56,267 --> 03:05:00,875
Thank you, councilor. Agarwal. Thank you very much. I'd like

2640
03:05:00,875 --> 03:05:03,635
to also mention that I sit on the Fort William.

2641
03:05:03,635 --> 03:05:11,233
BIA. And when we found out about the report. The

2642
03:05:11,233 --> 03:05:17,546
immediate reaction. Was quite chaotic. I'm going to ask you.

2643
03:05:20,405 --> 03:05:24,758
As our chair. Interim chair. Interim chair of the BIA.

2644
03:05:26,776 --> 03:05:30,376
How much progress have you seen? And what has been

2645
03:05:30,376 --> 03:05:35,456
the feeling amongst business owners within the last six months

2646
03:05:35,456 --> 03:05:39,456
in the BIA. Wow. Good question. Excellent question. I'm going

2647
03:05:39,456 --> 03:05:44,256
to tell you. There's renewed hope. There's renewed hope. People

2648
03:05:44,256 --> 03:05:47,854
feel more optimistic as. I said, two buildings just got

2649
03:05:47,854 --> 03:05:51,894
sold to young man back there who's eager, and then.

2650
03:05:51,894 --> 03:05:54,574
Obviously another person from town does. So people are starting

2651
03:05:54,574 --> 03:05:57,454
to move in, new ideas are coming, and they're looking

2652
03:05:57,454 --> 03:06:01,678
to say to us as a BIA, hey. What are

2653
03:06:01,678 --> 03:06:04,918
you doing for us? And we've done things because actions

2654
03:06:04,918 --> 03:06:08,878
speak louder than words. So we've got events, we got

2655
03:06:08,878 --> 03:06:10,998
security, our own security you have to go pay for.

2656
03:06:10,998 --> 03:06:14,872
Security. I got to say one thing while I'm here.

2657
03:06:14,872 --> 03:06:17,392
We had a good meeting with the police chief. Excellent

2658
03:06:17,392 --> 03:06:20,872
meeting. Very responsive. He's a fantastic chief. And then we

2659
03:06:20,872 --> 03:06:23,992
had a meeting. With our officers that walked the beat

2660
03:06:23,992 --> 03:06:27,192
around super people. We're very happy to have them. And

2661
03:06:27,192 --> 03:06:29,472
we just thanked them so much for what they're doing.

2662
03:06:29,472 --> 03:06:34,007
So their presence has really helped our area. Our events,

2663
03:06:34,007 --> 03:06:38,327
our flowers. The cleansingness of the area is utmost important.

2664
03:06:38,327 --> 03:06:42,047
So before people come, do their drugs, throw things around

2665
03:06:42,047 --> 03:06:45,407
or empty garbage cans or start graffiti, et cetera. These

2666
03:06:45,407 --> 03:06:48,167
type of things have been happening. Now we've got a

2667
03:06:48,167 --> 03:06:51,447
program to start cleaning that up. We actually applied for

2668
03:06:51,447 --> 03:06:53,327
a spray to get rid of the graffiti. Now, so

2669
03:06:53,327 --> 03:06:54,746
we don't know. Where that is. Hopefully you will get

2670
03:06:54,746 --> 03:06:56,906
the money to do it and keep cleaning up the

2671
03:06:56,906 --> 03:07:01,395
point. Is. You because you pay half. The citizens and

2672
03:07:01,395 --> 03:07:04,715
the businesses who pay their half are putting money in.

2673
03:07:04,715 --> 03:07:08,915
To fix the place up, make it better for everyone.

2674
03:07:08,915 --> 03:07:11,955
Everyone is the key. Not for this person. Not for

2675
03:07:11,955 --> 03:07:15,075
that person. For everyone. And as a counselor, there's one

2676
03:07:15,075 --> 03:07:20,059
question I always ask. Myself, does it? Benefit all or

2677
03:07:20,059 --> 03:07:23,899
one group or one person? Does it benefit all? Anyway,

2678
03:07:23,899 --> 03:07:26,899
I hope I answered your question. Thank you. Now, the

2679
03:07:26,899 --> 03:07:32,369
BIA. Border only goes to Main street. To the west

2680
03:07:32,369 --> 03:07:37,980
side of Bay street? Yes. We are reaching beyond Main

2681
03:07:37,980 --> 03:07:42,340
street as a BIA. These two businesses, one that was

2682
03:07:42,340 --> 03:07:46,500
purchased just recently by the gentleman behind us. And the

2683
03:07:46,500 --> 03:07:52,736
other business? Which is an individual, local individual. Local physician,

2684
03:07:52,736 --> 03:07:58,697
actually. Investing. He wanted to invest over a million dollars

2685
03:07:58,697 --> 03:08:01,497
to revitalize that building he had closed. On June the

2686
03:08:01,497 --> 03:08:08,905
19th. His realtor, which is not me. Approached the city

2687
03:08:08,905 --> 03:08:14,510
to buy the adjacent lot. The adjacent lot. Was to

2688
03:08:14,510 --> 03:08:19,318
be used. To. Don't just do motorcycle demonstrations. He's making

2689
03:08:19,318 --> 03:08:24,329
a motorcycle museum. Out of his own. I don't want

2690
03:08:24,329 --> 03:08:27,000
to beleague the point, but. We still have the motion

2691
03:08:27,000 --> 03:08:29,080
to put on the floor and lots of discussion yet.

2692
03:08:30,825 --> 03:08:32,865
We've asked to get to question. Thank you. Thank you.

2693
03:08:34,804 --> 03:08:37,044
So being that they have reached out to the BIA.

2694
03:08:39,740 --> 03:08:44,073
Our bordering neighborhood. Is it because. They can see the

2695
03:08:44,073 --> 03:08:47,393
difference in our own BIA, which is right, actually. If

2696
03:08:47,393 --> 03:08:51,193
we look out the front door here. The opposite side

2697
03:08:51,193 --> 03:08:54,981
of Donald street is the BIA. You don't find garbage

2698
03:08:54,981 --> 03:08:58,490
right on our doorstep any longer. Are the neighbors reaching

2699
03:08:58,490 --> 03:09:01,330
out now because they see a difference? Yes, and thank

2700
03:09:01,330 --> 03:09:04,827
you for that. We are getting more and more people

2701
03:09:04,827 --> 03:09:07,867
outside our boundary asking us how they can join, because

2702
03:09:07,867 --> 03:09:10,667
there are so many benefits to joining. You get a

2703
03:09:10,667 --> 03:09:12,587
garbage kind in front of you, you get flower. Pots,

2704
03:09:12,587 --> 03:09:15,147
you might get a bench. You got security, you got

2705
03:09:15,147 --> 03:09:18,627
lighting programs, you got camera programs. The BIA is offering

2706
03:09:18,627 --> 03:09:22,147
$250 to anybody that wants to put a camera up

2707
03:09:22,147 --> 03:09:25,778
or a light. Up for security, for safety, et cetera.

2708
03:09:25,778 --> 03:09:28,298
So these type of initiatives that we're trying to put

2709
03:09:28,298 --> 03:09:32,098
in are there to benefit all. So, yes, more and

2710
03:09:32,098 --> 03:09:33,658
more people. And we are going to do a program.

2711
03:09:33,658 --> 03:09:36,258
When we finish what we're doing, we're going to reach.

2712
03:09:36,258 --> 03:09:39,538
Out to more businesses to come and join our BIA.

2713
03:09:39,538 --> 03:09:42,418
Now, my last question, thank you. Through the chair is,

2714
03:09:42,418 --> 03:09:45,425
are we not? Under the adage of basically, you're looking

2715
03:09:45,425 --> 03:09:48,425
at the model of show and tell. Let's show everybody

2716
03:09:48,425 --> 03:09:52,536
what we can do to grow and build. Business, hope,

2717
03:09:52,536 --> 03:09:56,456
prosperity and growth in that neighborhood. Absolutely. I won't add

2718
03:09:56,456 --> 03:09:59,016
to that because you said it all. That's perfect. Yes,

2719
03:09:59,016 --> 03:10:07,088
thank you. Thank you. Mayor Boshkov. As you have gone

2720
03:10:07,088 --> 03:10:15,515
through. So much organizing and pulling people together. It's been

2721
03:10:15,515 --> 03:10:20,051
quite commendable. As not a ray of sunshine, more like

2722
03:10:20,051 --> 03:10:28,649
a spark plug. 24 watt. Cases, spark plugs. Are you

2723
03:10:28,649 --> 03:10:34,871
optimistic? Do you see hope? You talk to other communities,

2724
03:10:34,871 --> 03:10:39,111
business areas that can tell you success stories that actually

2725
03:10:39,111 --> 03:10:42,959
workable first of all I want to say. It's not

2726
03:10:42,959 --> 03:10:46,018
just one person. It's a board and it's people that

2727
03:10:46,018 --> 03:10:49,863
volunteer. And no one person could take credit for that.

2728
03:10:49,863 --> 03:10:51,983
We have fantastic people on the board. We got a

2729
03:10:51,983 --> 03:10:56,063
great coordinator, and we've pulled together. And one of the

2730
03:10:56,063 --> 03:10:58,263
things I've learned is when you go do a strategic

2731
03:10:58,263 --> 03:11:03,217
plan. You do all action items. You don't do theory,

2732
03:11:03,217 --> 03:11:05,337
you don't care about. You do all action items in.

2733
03:11:05,337 --> 03:11:07,697
The first week, I asked if I could do a

2734
03:11:07,697 --> 03:11:11,698
strategic plan with the board, and they said, okay. What

2735
03:11:11,698 --> 03:11:12,578
do you want to do? And then we put all

2736
03:11:12,578 --> 03:11:16,378
our stuff we want to do. Optimism. Is getting there.

2737
03:11:16,378 --> 03:11:18,578
We, as a board, have to show them first. And

2738
03:11:18,578 --> 03:11:20,818
that's why we're cleaning up, putting the flowers, getting the

2739
03:11:20,818 --> 03:11:24,897
security, getting laid. Once we do that. Then we start

2740
03:11:24,897 --> 03:11:27,577
reaching out from our border and start saying, hey, come

2741
03:11:27,577 --> 03:11:30,417
on in. Come on in. And you know what? There's

2742
03:11:30,417 --> 03:11:37,088
only one thing that drives. Areas. That are don trodden

2743
03:11:37,088 --> 03:11:39,728
when I was in Yorkville, when I went to Greenwich

2744
03:11:39,728 --> 03:11:43,568
Village. Those two areas were the worst areas in Toronto

2745
03:11:43,568 --> 03:11:46,848
and New York, that because the prices came down so

2746
03:11:46,848 --> 03:11:50,128
low because the opportunities were there. That's when you got

2747
03:11:50,128 --> 03:11:52,608
investment, and that's what's happening now? We are getting a

2748
03:11:52,608 --> 03:11:56,446
lot of people from out of town come. In and

2749
03:11:56,446 --> 03:11:58,326
look at the Thunder bay saying, hey, I could buy

2750
03:11:58,326 --> 03:12:01,006
a building here for this much. Money and I can

2751
03:12:01,006 --> 03:12:03,326
fix it up and I could do things, but we

2752
03:12:03,326 --> 03:12:06,806
have to support these. People. We have to encourage them.

2753
03:12:06,806 --> 03:12:09,126
We have to say to them, yeah, we'll help you.

2754
03:12:09,126 --> 03:12:12,686
So, yes, optimism is there. But we need your help.

2755
03:12:12,686 --> 03:12:15,526
We need the help of council to support. Us and

2756
03:12:15,526 --> 03:12:18,583
to back us up. When these things happen. Well, I'll

2757
03:12:18,583 --> 03:12:21,823
just say you are appreciated for your energy. Thank you.

2758
03:12:21,823 --> 03:12:24,543
And I'm trying to get you to be more enthusiastic.

2759
03:12:26,369 --> 03:12:29,009
You really must speak up. We can barely hear you.

2760
03:12:29,009 --> 03:12:31,489
Listen, I was resting at home on Saturday. Night. I

2761
03:12:31,489 --> 03:12:36,395
didn't want to be here tonight. Trust me. Councilor Trini.

2762
03:12:36,395 --> 03:12:38,995
Thank you. And thank you for your deputation tonight. You

2763
03:12:38,995 --> 03:12:42,435
indicated that you researched the pallet homes and the pallet

2764
03:12:42,435 --> 03:12:45,515
village? I did as well. Okay, but I. Don't think

2765
03:12:45,515 --> 03:12:48,315
the public has. And I'd really like you to explain

2766
03:12:48,315 --> 03:12:53,921
the palate. Homepiece. This is important. Talking about, for example,

2767
03:12:53,921 --> 03:12:57,601
the fencing, the security. What it looks like those pieces,

2768
03:12:57,601 --> 03:13:01,121
because it's not the encampment that we see today, and

2769
03:13:01,121 --> 03:13:03,641
I really want people to really visualize what that would

2770
03:13:03,641 --> 03:13:05,881
look like. Thank you. That's a great question. And I

2771
03:13:05,881 --> 03:13:09,241
was surprised that tonight. There wasn't some pictures for you

2772
03:13:09,241 --> 03:13:12,352
to see. I said to myself, there should been pictures,

2773
03:13:12,352 --> 03:13:15,949
so people, I got the pictures here. Okay. Yeah, it

2774
03:13:15,949 --> 03:13:19,840
looks pretty nice right now. They've had challenges. When I

2775
03:13:19,840 --> 03:13:21,880
talked to the mayor's assistant, they said they had challenges

2776
03:13:21,880 --> 03:13:24,760
in the beginning, and they're trying to fight their way

2777
03:13:24,760 --> 03:13:25,920
through it. You know what? I'm trying to say. They're

2778
03:13:25,920 --> 03:13:28,240
trying to fight their way through it to get on

2779
03:13:28,240 --> 03:13:31,040
the right track. It's a lot better than a tent.

2780
03:13:31,040 --> 03:13:35,755
I'll agree 100%. But again, if you're going to create

2781
03:13:35,755 --> 03:13:37,875
a village, that's what you want to. Do? Create a

2782
03:13:37,875 --> 03:13:41,315
village. I spoke to the head of the tiny homes,

2783
03:13:41,315 --> 03:13:43,875
the president of tiny homes. Canada. He was on my

2784
03:13:43,875 --> 03:13:47,230
committee. My tiny home committee. When we were a property

2785
03:13:47,230 --> 03:13:54,086
reduction, he wanted to build 220. Units. Outside the city,

2786
03:13:54,086 --> 03:14:00,806
its own village with common kitchen, common showers, everything. Their

2787
03:14:00,806 --> 03:14:04,646
consultants, nurses, all the programming outside the city. And I

2788
03:14:04,646 --> 03:14:06,286
thought at the time I said, why? Do you want

2789
03:14:06,286 --> 03:14:10,511
to go outside the city? And he said, Because you

2790
03:14:10,511 --> 03:14:12,271
get the people in a place where they don't have

2791
03:14:12,271 --> 03:14:15,351
the distractions. They don't have their triggers. When they walk

2792
03:14:15,351 --> 03:14:17,751
down the street, there's a trigger that person. I used

2793
03:14:17,751 --> 03:14:19,831
to buy my drugs there or I get intimidated, et

2794
03:14:19,831 --> 03:14:23,831
cetera. The point is, when you build something like this,

2795
03:14:23,831 --> 03:14:28,231
it has to be in an area that is unobtrusive.

2796
03:14:28,231 --> 03:14:32,144
And does not impact home. Homeowners. Who are there 24/7

2797
03:14:32,144 --> 03:14:36,399
or businesses you're working for the community. You're going to

2798
03:14:36,399 --> 03:14:38,279
try to help the homeless. We're all trying to do

2799
03:14:38,279 --> 03:14:41,797
that. So that's the approach I think you should take.

2800
03:14:41,797 --> 03:14:45,117
There's nothing wrong with this. As an intermediate step, but

2801
03:14:45,117 --> 03:14:47,197
the long term goal is to get them where they're

2802
03:14:47,197 --> 03:14:48,517
supposed. To go, and I think DSAP is going to

2803
03:14:48,517 --> 03:14:50,357
do that. You don't have to. Go here. You don't

2804
03:14:50,357 --> 03:14:53,717
have to spend $1.8 million in operating a year. Or

2805
03:14:53,717 --> 03:14:58,235
2.5 to set it up. Thank you for that. I

2806
03:14:58,235 --> 03:15:02,565
appreciate that answer. In the report, it actually indicates that

2807
03:15:02,565 --> 03:15:05,765
council in the city would not be actually funding it,

2808
03:15:05,765 --> 03:15:08,565
that it would provide a letter of support for potential

2809
03:15:08,565 --> 03:15:11,485
funders so it wouldn't be taking on the onus and

2810
03:15:11,485 --> 03:15:15,594
responsibility. Basically, it's providing the land for it to go

2811
03:15:15,594 --> 03:15:18,434
on, and it's a pilot. Project, so I don't believe

2812
03:15:18,434 --> 03:15:20,674
the numbers. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think

2813
03:15:20,674 --> 03:15:24,145
it was like. 23 for a pilot project. I don't

2814
03:15:24,145 --> 03:15:28,971
think it was the numbers that you are 22,000. Units.

2815
03:15:28,971 --> 03:15:31,691
Units. Okay, so it'll be less than 4.2 million. You'd

2816
03:15:31,691 --> 03:15:35,211
be about probably two point something million total costs, operating

2817
03:15:35,211 --> 03:15:41,038
and buying it. Now, your question was? If not the

2818
03:15:41,038 --> 03:15:44,918
city, providing that it would be the partner. Some partner.

2819
03:15:44,918 --> 03:15:49,038
Partner. Yes. Okay, so there's nothing wrong with partnerships, and

2820
03:15:49,038 --> 03:15:51,118
there's a ton of partnerships right now in the city.

2821
03:15:51,118 --> 03:15:55,862
That's great. But. Why is the partner and the city

2822
03:15:55,862 --> 03:15:58,462
get together, find a piece of land and say, here,

2823
03:15:58,462 --> 03:16:03,035
this. Is a better piece of land. Because. It's got

2824
03:16:03,035 --> 03:16:05,715
its own area. It's not intrusive to anybody else. It's

2825
03:16:05,715 --> 03:16:08,995
not impacting businesses, it's not impacting homeowners. But then someone's

2826
03:16:08,995 --> 03:16:12,275
going to say. Wait a minute. What about our services?

2827
03:16:12,275 --> 03:16:14,475
You know what they do, right? Now they got outreach

2828
03:16:14,475 --> 03:16:17,555
workers that go to the tents that will bring them

2829
03:16:17,555 --> 03:16:20,555
their food, water. They got health workers that go there

2830
03:16:20,555 --> 03:16:23,973
all the time. What's wrong with having a place that's

2831
03:16:23,973 --> 03:16:29,058
nice? Place, getting the people to commute. Provide free busing

2832
03:16:29,058 --> 03:16:31,538
if you want. Can you free busing? It's not a

2833
03:16:31,538 --> 03:16:35,099
big deal. Let's make everybody happy. Not just one group.

2834
03:16:36,683 --> 03:16:38,083
Thank you. And thank you for that answer as well.

2835
03:16:39,768 --> 03:16:42,488
I will be supporting the referral because I don't believe

2836
03:16:42,488 --> 03:16:46,648
there was enough consultation to the site itself, but recognizing

2837
03:16:46,648 --> 03:16:51,008
that this palette home piece is nice to look at,

2838
03:16:51,008 --> 03:16:55,248
and the actual program itself is wholesome, with security, lighting,

2839
03:16:55,248 --> 03:16:58,248
fencing and those pieces. So I do recognize that. And

2840
03:16:58,248 --> 03:17:02,387
you mentioned as well, not. Requiring. Its separate sewer services

2841
03:17:02,387 --> 03:17:07,061
doesn't require sewer hookup or water hookup because. They're separate

2842
03:17:07,061 --> 03:17:10,826
entities in that pallet village program. I still have one

2843
03:17:10,826 --> 03:17:16,449
more question. Chair? Yes, please. If you can ask the

2844
03:17:16,449 --> 03:17:20,458
question, I will. So you indicated about supporting our community

2845
03:17:20,458 --> 03:17:24,258
partners. We do have a community partner that does not

2846
03:17:24,258 --> 03:17:27,738
operate. Year round, and I think that would help alleviate

2847
03:17:27,738 --> 03:17:33,482
if we supported that. That group. As we all know,

2848
03:17:33,482 --> 03:17:37,282
we can't paint a brush to everyone that's encampment. The

2849
03:17:37,282 --> 03:17:40,901
same brush. And do you see the reason why we

2850
03:17:40,901 --> 03:17:45,919
don't provide hotels for those who don't? Fit within. Those

2851
03:17:45,919 --> 03:17:49,319
support services that exist now, the community partners that exist

2852
03:17:49,319 --> 03:17:51,719
now, and why we're not providing hotels for those people

2853
03:17:51,719 --> 03:17:54,759
in the summer? Well, my answer to that would be

2854
03:17:54,759 --> 03:17:56,399
I was going to say the winter, right? You didn't

2855
03:17:56,399 --> 03:17:58,279
have an issue in the wintertime. Everybody found a place.

2856
03:17:58,279 --> 03:18:01,279
And one of the organizations that was the first one

2857
03:18:01,279 --> 03:18:04,239
to lobby and say, hey, we need to get these

2858
03:18:04,239 --> 03:18:07,969
tents up because. It's dignified, it's human rights, et cetera.

2859
03:18:07,969 --> 03:18:10,329
When winter came, said to the city. You guys got

2860
03:18:10,329 --> 03:18:12,049
to help us, because now we got winter coming. He's

2861
03:18:12,049 --> 03:18:14,129
going. To be run into problems. I won't mention the

2862
03:18:14,129 --> 03:18:18,009
organization, but the point is, organizations come. And go. It's

2863
03:18:18,009 --> 03:18:19,969
always going to fall in the city of responsibility when

2864
03:18:19,969 --> 03:18:22,569
they can't. Get funding, because what these organizations do, they

2865
03:18:22,569 --> 03:18:25,821
get their funding from the government governments change fund. Funding

2866
03:18:25,821 --> 03:18:28,581
changes, as you all know. So am I going to

2867
03:18:28,581 --> 03:18:30,941
rely on an organization, or am I. Going to rely

2868
03:18:30,941 --> 03:18:33,661
on the city. It's going to fall on your back.

2869
03:18:33,661 --> 03:18:36,581
And the point is, you don't have to do anything.

2870
03:18:36,581 --> 03:18:40,419
DSAP is doing it. Thank you for that. Thank you

2871
03:18:40,419 --> 03:18:43,819
for the questions. Okay. That exhausts our speakers list. Thank

2872
03:18:43,819 --> 03:18:46,579
you. For coming. Thank you for having me. And I

2873
03:18:46,579 --> 03:18:49,299
apologize to anyone if I've offended anyone. I didn't mean

2874
03:18:49,299 --> 03:18:51,659
to do that, but I hope I got the point

2875
03:18:51,659 --> 03:18:57,546
across. Thank you. Okay. Good night. You as well. So

2876
03:18:57,546 --> 03:18:59,186
I think it's time to put the motion on the

2877
03:18:59,186 --> 03:19:01,405
floor. So chair. We do need to move her in

2878
03:19:01,405 --> 03:19:06,373
a seconder, please. Move by councilor Johnson. Seconded by councilor.

2879
03:19:08,572 --> 03:19:12,052
Yes. Now you can ask about anything you'd like. Presentations,

2880
03:19:12,052 --> 03:19:19,511
deputations, report. Councilor trainee will second. I do now, Councilor

2881
03:19:19,511 --> 03:19:26,473
Chung. Councilor Gratuka is next. Okay, I've got the floor

2882
03:19:26,473 --> 03:19:31,896
right now. You do? Thank you. I did have a

2883
03:19:31,896 --> 03:19:36,588
number of conversations. With community members. I did ask them

2884
03:19:36,588 --> 03:19:38,788
to submit their questions to me. So a number of

2885
03:19:38,788 --> 03:19:41,708
these questions do come. From a number of the community

2886
03:19:41,708 --> 03:19:45,761
members, including those in my neighborhood, which. Has about, there's

2887
03:19:45,761 --> 03:19:49,041
at least three encampments within, say, a block block and

2888
03:19:49,041 --> 03:19:52,241
a half radius of where we live. So the first

2889
03:19:52,241 --> 03:19:55,984
question. What happened with the plan that the city would

2890
03:19:55,984 --> 03:20:00,416
propose, the three year pilot project that would choose. The

2891
03:20:00,416 --> 03:20:04,496
24 to 48 people in the pallet houses. The commentary

2892
03:20:04,496 --> 03:20:07,376
in the community is that the partners are taken aback.

2893
03:20:09,046 --> 03:20:11,006
That they see their like it's going to be on

2894
03:20:11,006 --> 03:20:14,120
them when. They thought, I think in their mind, that

2895
03:20:14,120 --> 03:20:16,754
it was to be the city. So maybe if you

2896
03:20:16,754 --> 03:20:21,310
could shed some light on that. Through the chair. We

2897
03:20:21,310 --> 03:20:24,990
have been in discussion with community partners who have expressed

2898
03:20:24,990 --> 03:20:28,790
interest in us. The city not operating and an external

2899
03:20:28,790 --> 03:20:33,910
partner operating. The recommendations before you tonight are not for

2900
03:20:33,910 --> 03:20:37,484
the city to fund it, but. We are within our

2901
03:20:37,484 --> 03:20:41,844
municipal jurisdiction and capacity recommending identifying a piece of property.

2902
03:20:43,616 --> 03:20:45,816
That could be adequately used. We know that the property

2903
03:20:45,816 --> 03:20:51,687
in question. Appears to have appropriate zoning. That this type

2904
03:20:51,687 --> 03:20:55,655
of use could fit. And that we would support with

2905
03:20:55,655 --> 03:20:59,716
letters of support on behalf of the mayor. From the

2906
03:20:59,716 --> 03:21:03,756
mayor on behalf of city council for us to be

2907
03:21:03,756 --> 03:21:10,758
better positioned to secure. External funding. This wouldn't be. For

2908
03:21:10,758 --> 03:21:14,078
a community partner to fund on their own, but we

2909
03:21:14,078 --> 03:21:21,211
would be there to support. Application writing, letter writing. Proposal

2910
03:21:21,211 --> 03:21:25,634
development and coming together in partnership. Thank you. My next

2911
03:21:25,634 --> 03:21:29,612
question. Can you tell me how you came to the

2912
03:21:29,612 --> 03:21:33,292
20 meters? Property lines? Other municipalities, such as London. Have

2913
03:21:33,292 --> 03:21:35,772
a much higher density than we do and have 100

2914
03:21:35,772 --> 03:21:42,864
meters. Through the chair. The examples that we did look

2915
03:21:42,864 --> 03:21:47,304
at were municipalities that had much more public facing documentation

2916
03:21:47,304 --> 03:21:51,424
about their distance guidelines. We not only looked at municipalities

2917
03:21:51,424 --> 03:21:55,224
in Ontario, but there have been some counselors that have

2918
03:21:55,224 --> 03:21:58,744
referred us to the work that's occurring in BC, for

2919
03:21:58,744 --> 03:22:04,080
example, in Victoria. Their distance in Victoria is 4 meters

2920
03:22:04,080 --> 03:22:07,785
from a private property. The other communities that we looked

2921
03:22:07,785 --> 03:22:10,905
at in Ontario are in the range of five to

2922
03:22:10,905 --> 03:22:15,892
10 meters. And so we went with the. High range

2923
03:22:15,892 --> 03:22:18,732
of 10 meters, based on what we had seen. And

2924
03:22:18,732 --> 03:22:22,045
we did bring that out to folks. Who would be

2925
03:22:22,045 --> 03:22:26,325
most impacted as far as being required to move if

2926
03:22:26,325 --> 03:22:29,845
these were to be adopted? By council this evening, and

2927
03:22:29,845 --> 03:22:33,574
they were the ones that actually suggested that. A more

2928
03:22:33,574 --> 03:22:37,214
distance would be preferable. That they felt that this would

2929
03:22:37,214 --> 03:22:39,934
give some safety, would help. Keep the peace. And so

2930
03:22:39,934 --> 03:22:43,054
that's where we ended up with 20. We also did

2931
03:22:43,054 --> 03:22:46,854
examine because there were questions from council the last time

2932
03:22:46,854 --> 03:22:51,943
we brought a report. Around 100 meters, buffer. And that

2933
03:22:51,943 --> 03:22:56,103
almost eradicates any potential location other than moving completely outside

2934
03:22:56,103 --> 03:23:02,591
of the city. Where services. Are supported. Analysts will and

2935
03:23:02,591 --> 03:23:06,592
may have additional information to add. Thank you, director Wilson.

2936
03:23:06,592 --> 03:23:09,192
Through the chair. I just would like to note that

2937
03:23:09,192 --> 03:23:12,792
London's original proposal is 10 meters from a private property

2938
03:23:12,792 --> 03:23:14,792
line, and it was a decision of their counsel to

2939
03:23:14,792 --> 03:23:17,472
increase the distance to 100 meters. And that was only

2940
03:23:17,472 --> 03:23:19,952
last week. The guidelines that we were working under and

2941
03:23:19,952 --> 03:23:23,232
that had been vetted with the people living in encampments

2942
03:23:23,232 --> 03:23:27,158
and the unsheltered. Homelessness task. Force were already created at

2943
03:23:27,158 --> 03:23:29,398
the point that those came out. Thank you for that.

2944
03:23:29,398 --> 03:23:33,415
I appreciate that. Answer. The third question I have is

2945
03:23:33,415 --> 03:23:40,513
we have lakes, ponds and beaches listed. As areas. That

2946
03:23:40,513 --> 03:23:43,713
an encampment would not be permitted. But would this mean

2947
03:23:43,713 --> 03:23:47,113
that creeks and rivers are excluded? Or have they been

2948
03:23:47,113 --> 03:23:50,748
included? But just the language is not clear. Through the

2949
03:23:50,748 --> 03:23:56,416
chair. Not including rivers or creeks. The rationale for that

2950
03:23:56,416 --> 03:23:58,576
is that people do rely on the water. Sources for

2951
03:23:58,576 --> 03:24:02,096
fire safety purposes. The water bodies that are identified in

2952
03:24:02,096 --> 03:24:05,896
the guidelines generally have competing public use, whereas rivers do

2953
03:24:05,896 --> 03:24:09,016
not have that same degree, and many rivers are also

2954
03:24:09,016 --> 03:24:12,856
covered by the prohibition. To be within an environmental protection

2955
03:24:12,856 --> 03:24:15,815
zone. Excellent. Thank you so much. Chair, can you put

2956
03:24:15,815 --> 03:24:19,175
me on the second round, please? Will do, councilor. Gretuga.

2957
03:24:21,072 --> 03:24:27,445
Thank you, Mr. Chair. Well, I guess. The 20 meters

2958
03:24:27,445 --> 03:24:32,030
buffer. That's 60ft only. I mean, really think about that.

2959
03:24:32,030 --> 03:24:36,190
That's 60ft only. From a residence or a property line.

2960
03:24:36,190 --> 03:24:38,889
I mean, that's not far at all. I think people

2961
03:24:38,889 --> 03:24:43,225
were expecting results from this report. Especially the McVicker people,

2962
03:24:43,225 --> 03:24:48,242
which this will do nothing, absolutely nothing for them. At

2963
03:24:48,242 --> 03:24:50,738
all. First off, before we go through a lot of.

2964
03:24:53,811 --> 03:24:56,091
Debate. I'd like to put a referral resolution on the

2965
03:24:56,091 --> 03:25:01,226
floor. We're going to ratify this on the 15th, which

2966
03:25:01,226 --> 03:25:04,426
is only less than three weeks. To have any meaningful

2967
03:25:04,426 --> 03:25:08,187
public consultation. I hear everyone around the table talk about.

2968
03:25:10,234 --> 03:25:12,594
Public consultation and how important it is. And yet we

2969
03:25:12,594 --> 03:25:18,169
had no consultation with the stakeholders. In the BIA. Surrounding

2970
03:25:18,169 --> 03:25:22,788
businesses before we're going to present this. As a spot

2971
03:25:22,788 --> 03:25:28,855
where we're going to. Have. The encampments here. I just

2972
03:25:28,855 --> 03:25:31,095
think it's unfair to the people. And we just got

2973
03:25:31,095 --> 03:25:35,942
this report on Friday. Reported this magnitude, and something is

2974
03:25:35,942 --> 03:25:39,174
so impactful on the community. As it is seen in

2975
03:25:39,174 --> 03:25:45,058
other communities, I believe. It warrants. Some time to breathe

2976
03:25:45,058 --> 03:25:47,178
this in and hear what the people are saying, because

2977
03:25:47,178 --> 03:25:50,298
I'm telling you people in McVicker area are not going

2978
03:25:50,298 --> 03:25:51,938
to be happy. Many people are not going to be

2979
03:25:51,938 --> 03:25:55,723
happy with this. So rather than spend 2 hours debating

2980
03:25:55,723 --> 03:25:59,914
this, It'll give a few weeks or. Say a month

2981
03:25:59,914 --> 03:26:04,194
to refer this back and have some meaning for public

2982
03:26:04,194 --> 03:26:10,003
consultation. On these recommendations. Not just wait three weeks until

2983
03:26:10,003 --> 03:26:12,883
we ratify, because then we potentially will change. Our decisions

2984
03:26:12,883 --> 03:26:17,359
again, like we potentially may on parquette's right. Public consultation.

2985
03:26:19,348 --> 03:26:21,188
Is paramount here. So if I could get a second

2986
03:26:21,188 --> 03:26:22,508
or. I'd like to put that. On the floor right

2987
03:26:22,508 --> 03:26:26,027
now. Councilor Gretuga. Did you have a date in mind,

2988
03:26:26,027 --> 03:26:31,630
like the 22nd meeting or July? Yeah. I think we

2989
03:26:31,630 --> 03:26:34,190
need to ask administration, but how much time do we

2990
03:26:34,190 --> 03:26:38,790
need to do meaningful consultation? With the residents in the

2991
03:26:38,790 --> 03:26:43,188
area, the businesses in the area. How long? Generally, it's

2992
03:26:43,188 --> 03:26:48,335
about a month. Okay, and so. I think the city

2993
03:26:48,335 --> 03:26:51,375
clerk is asking what type of consultation would you like

2994
03:26:51,375 --> 03:26:56,255
to see, because that's going to determine what administration is

2995
03:26:56,255 --> 03:27:00,627
able to do and what timelines. City manager. Thank you.

2996
03:27:02,270 --> 03:27:06,291
1 second. Councilor Gutuga, this may help clarify. This is

2997
03:27:06,291 --> 03:27:09,646
an effort to help. It's also an effort to manage

2998
03:27:09,646 --> 03:27:15,154
expectations, because we've heard that. Some of you are disappointed

2999
03:27:15,154 --> 03:27:19,189
in what administration has brought back. First of all, we've

3000
03:27:19,189 --> 03:27:23,756
brought you our best work. It doesn't get better. For

3001
03:27:23,756 --> 03:27:29,047
public consultation. There is perhaps an opportunity. But the opportunity

3002
03:27:29,047 --> 03:27:31,567
is not what many of you might be thinking and

3003
03:27:31,567 --> 03:27:33,967
that is, we're not going to go out. Well, if

3004
03:27:33,967 --> 03:27:37,807
we do public consultation, if the referral pass. We're not

3005
03:27:37,807 --> 03:27:41,367
going to find a place in the city that both

3006
03:27:41,367 --> 03:27:47,009
meets. The needs of under housed people and meets. The

3007
03:27:47,009 --> 03:27:49,289
needs of business people or else others in the area.

3008
03:27:50,817 --> 03:27:55,150
There is no place. That does both. We're not going

3009
03:27:55,150 --> 03:27:58,790
to find that, but where the opportunity may come in

3010
03:27:58,790 --> 03:28:04,675
public consultation is an education process. Where we inform stakeholders

3011
03:28:04,675 --> 03:28:08,306
and neighbors of what this actually means. And that could

3012
03:28:08,306 --> 03:28:12,221
indeed be helpful. Finally, this site that we're talking about

3013
03:28:12,221 --> 03:28:17,313
tonight that's recommended. Is actually, if someone was to build

3014
03:28:17,313 --> 03:28:21,267
a shelter there today. They wouldn't need to come to

3015
03:28:21,267 --> 03:28:26,165
you. That area. Is eligible for a shelter house to

3016
03:28:26,165 --> 03:28:30,943
be built. And council would have no say in it

3017
03:28:30,943 --> 03:28:34,063
unless you change your zoning bylaw or change your official

3018
03:28:34,063 --> 03:28:41,149
plan. Thank you, chair. Councilor Gretuga. Yeah. Thank you. I

3019
03:28:41,149 --> 03:28:43,509
could tell you of a few spots, some along Cumberland

3020
03:28:43,509 --> 03:28:46,629
street. Park there. There's so. Many other areas of the

3021
03:28:46,629 --> 03:28:50,429
city that I think consultation first off, let's talk to

3022
03:28:50,429 --> 03:28:53,069
the BIA we heard tonight. We didn't even talk to

3023
03:28:53,069 --> 03:28:56,471
them. They had to find out. Through the news today.

3024
03:28:57,678 --> 03:29:00,398
I mean the fellow who purchased a building next door.

3025
03:29:00,398 --> 03:29:03,995
Just don't send an email today. So I'm talking about

3026
03:29:03,995 --> 03:29:09,073
public consultation. At the minimalist. We haven't done any here,

3027
03:29:09,073 --> 03:29:13,677
so let's do something at least. I don't know. I

3028
03:29:13,677 --> 03:29:16,277
hear everyone around the table talk about consultation. A public

3029
03:29:16,277 --> 03:29:19,357
consultation here. We have not even consulted anyone, but yet.

3030
03:29:23,408 --> 03:29:25,448
We're going to prove this as a site, potentially. So

3031
03:29:25,448 --> 03:29:30,113
that's why I'm asking. For minimal consultation. Let people know,

3032
03:29:30,113 --> 03:29:32,233
find out what their thoughts are as we do at

3033
03:29:32,233 --> 03:29:34,673
normal consultations. I mean, it shouldn't take more than a

3034
03:29:34,673 --> 03:29:37,787
month at all. Well, can I get a response from

3035
03:29:37,787 --> 03:29:40,267
administration? Yes, that's what I was just about to ask

3036
03:29:40,267 --> 03:29:45,234
them. Is July 22 even an option, or does it?

3037
03:29:46,409 --> 03:29:51,081
August through the chair. I will remind counsel that we

3038
03:29:51,081 --> 03:29:56,001
did public consultation on the feasibility of designated locations. We

3039
03:29:56,001 --> 03:29:59,681
heard from community that vacant lots were the most desirable.

3040
03:30:01,060 --> 03:30:04,971
And so we brought you forward a vacant lot. We

3041
03:30:04,971 --> 03:30:09,902
also did consultation. Where the BIA would have been welcomed

3042
03:30:09,902 --> 03:30:13,142
to participate. It was an online survey that was open.

3043
03:30:13,142 --> 03:30:16,582
For several weeks. We worked with indigenous leaders in the

3044
03:30:16,582 --> 03:30:20,782
community. We worked with community partners. And we met with

3045
03:30:20,782 --> 03:30:24,702
individuals who have experience of living in encampments. We brought

3046
03:30:24,702 --> 03:30:28,959
you all of that information. Two months ago. In order

3047
03:30:28,959 --> 03:30:33,559
to do effective consultation, we will likely get, as city

3048
03:30:33,559 --> 03:30:37,721
manager, Gail said. No solid answer that's going to meet

3049
03:30:37,721 --> 03:30:41,241
the needs of individuals who are unhoused. As well as

3050
03:30:41,241 --> 03:30:47,657
meet. The perceived concerns. Of businesses. I was asking for

3051
03:30:47,657 --> 03:30:55,863
community members. We can potentially do. Some. Our report tonight

3052
03:30:55,863 --> 03:31:00,415
is also not to actually action. Anything on that lot.

3053
03:31:00,415 --> 03:31:02,855
It's to hold the lot at this point and to

3054
03:31:02,855 --> 03:31:06,215
write letters. Of support. We can bring further information on

3055
03:31:06,215 --> 03:31:10,055
that, but I do urge counsel to consider and adopt

3056
03:31:10,055 --> 03:31:14,495
the distance guidelines and not to refer those back, nor

3057
03:31:14,495 --> 03:31:18,535
refer back the areas for advocacy. Mr. Chair the question

3058
03:31:18,535 --> 03:31:21,843
was how long? That was simply the question, how long

3059
03:31:21,843 --> 03:31:25,763
for consultation? Okay. And how much consultation have we done

3060
03:31:25,763 --> 03:31:30,886
with this site. Zero. Okay, well, city manager Gail will

3061
03:31:30,886 --> 03:31:34,086
address that chair. I know what the question was, and

3062
03:31:34,086 --> 03:31:36,646
we do, but we need to provide context when we

3063
03:31:36,646 --> 03:31:39,446
give an answer. Simply providing a date is insufficient. For

3064
03:31:39,446 --> 03:31:41,926
you to make an informed decision. And as a city

3065
03:31:41,926 --> 03:31:43,486
manager, I do have the right to. Speak, and that

3066
03:31:43,486 --> 03:31:45,446
right to speak is delegated, and we want to provide

3067
03:31:45,446 --> 03:31:48,778
you that information to help you make good decisions. Did

3068
03:31:48,778 --> 03:31:53,403
you want to add anything? About timeline. About timelines, yes.

3069
03:31:55,486 --> 03:31:57,046
So through the chair in order for us to actually.

3070
03:31:59,071 --> 03:32:05,143
Design public engagement in order. To set dates, invite participants.

3071
03:32:07,091 --> 03:32:08,651
We would need several months to actually do all of

3072
03:32:08,651 --> 03:32:11,763
that work and bring back. A robust report on what

3073
03:32:11,763 --> 03:32:15,921
we heard. So this would push things back, at least

3074
03:32:15,921 --> 03:32:19,073
until the end of August. If not September, for us

3075
03:32:19,073 --> 03:32:23,969
to bring back enough information for council's consideration. I was

3076
03:32:23,969 --> 03:32:27,609
just looking at consulting with the BIA, the immediate business

3077
03:32:27,609 --> 03:32:29,729
people, to find out what their thoughts are than residents.

3078
03:32:29,729 --> 03:32:35,255
I mean, I wasn't looking for. A complex consultation. We

3079
03:32:35,255 --> 03:32:36,975
said we've done it before in a month, so I

3080
03:32:36,975 --> 03:32:40,716
just don't understand. This. It certainly won't support this, and

3081
03:32:40,716 --> 03:32:46,111
I think the public. Is. We deserve to the public.

3082
03:32:46,111 --> 03:32:48,551
They're not. Fast track this based on administration's recommendation. Here.

3083
03:32:50,015 --> 03:32:54,859
Councilor, are you? Consultation on the one lot and not

3084
03:32:54,859 --> 03:32:59,356
the residential aspects. Is it the downtown lot that you're

3085
03:32:59,356 --> 03:33:03,358
most concerned about? No one has been consulted on this

3086
03:33:03,358 --> 03:33:08,283
lot. Everyone found out today, we found out Friday. How

3087
03:33:08,283 --> 03:33:11,723
was that consultation? No, I'm just asking like you're okay

3088
03:33:11,723 --> 03:33:14,163
with the setbacks. And the other aspects of the report.

3089
03:33:14,163 --> 03:33:18,203
You just want consultation on the lot on Victoria at

3090
03:33:18,203 --> 03:33:22,444
Simpson. Constellation that, and I would like to amend the

3091
03:33:22,444 --> 03:33:27,900
setback for residential. But for now, yes. Yeah, well, so

3092
03:33:27,900 --> 03:33:31,733
you want to refer the setbacks as well? No. I

3093
03:33:31,733 --> 03:33:35,933
would like to amend the setbacks for residential to 50

3094
03:33:35,933 --> 03:33:42,634
meters. But that's when that happens, okay? So. We have

3095
03:33:42,634 --> 03:33:46,946
a motion to refer. City clerk power. I'm a little

3096
03:33:46,946 --> 03:33:51,656
confused. Do we refer just one portion of this? And

3097
03:33:51,656 --> 03:33:55,056
amend the other. So, through the chair, what I'm hearing

3098
03:33:55,056 --> 03:34:00,096
from councilor Gretuga. Is specific consultation on the Vicount lot,

3099
03:34:00,096 --> 03:34:04,376
including the FW, BIA and relevant business owners. Again, this

3100
03:34:04,376 --> 03:34:07,896
recommendation simply holds that lot. It does not start the

3101
03:34:07,896 --> 03:34:10,336
process. It does not start the work. This is still

3102
03:34:10,336 --> 03:34:13,746
subject to ratification. In whatever decision you make as well.

3103
03:34:13,746 --> 03:34:16,884
So it's important to consider that. That certainly could be

3104
03:34:16,884 --> 03:34:20,679
done. As a referral on the vicount lot. On the

3105
03:34:20,679 --> 03:34:22,799
other matter, chair I would ask to speak to that

3106
03:34:22,799 --> 03:34:24,479
when you're closer to that, as we may need to

3107
03:34:24,479 --> 03:34:29,640
bump into closed session, okay? It appears that we're speaking

3108
03:34:29,640 --> 03:34:35,718
on a referral for the vicount lot. Consultation with businesses.

3109
03:34:35,718 --> 03:34:38,998
Seconder councilor Agarwal will second. So that motion is on

3110
03:34:38,998 --> 03:34:43,796
the floor. Referral for consultation there and I'll start a

3111
03:34:43,796 --> 03:34:50,441
new list. I've got councilor. Hamilton. Councilor. Agarwal. Report back

3112
03:34:50,441 --> 03:34:55,653
date. Did we settle on something? End of August council.

3113
03:34:56,911 --> 03:35:00,071
July 22 I think whatever consultation we could talk to

3114
03:35:00,071 --> 03:35:02,231
the BIA and the businesses in that time frame. It's

3115
03:35:02,231 --> 03:35:07,245
not comprehensive. We're being told that's not achievable. But that

3116
03:35:07,245 --> 03:35:11,832
was for a comprehensive consultation that included everything. In city

3117
03:35:11,832 --> 03:35:15,912
or incoming city manager Colin Mr. Chair, forgive this interruption.

3118
03:35:15,912 --> 03:35:17,912
I know I really don't. Have standing here until the

3119
03:35:17,912 --> 03:35:20,952
bylaw passes later on this evening. But in the optimism

3120
03:35:20,952 --> 03:35:23,512
that that will pass. I will inherit this come tomorrow

3121
03:35:23,512 --> 03:35:28,355
morning. My concern with just focusing any further consultation should

3122
03:35:28,355 --> 03:35:31,915
this council decide to do that, just forwarding it just

3123
03:35:31,915 --> 03:35:35,435
doing that consultation with the BIA on the lot that

3124
03:35:35,435 --> 03:35:43,087
is being suggested. Will result in us, obviously, providing. Feedback

3125
03:35:43,087 --> 03:35:44,887
to you that they're not supportive of it. I mean,

3126
03:35:44,887 --> 03:35:47,287
it's clear we heard from their chair this evening. So

3127
03:35:47,287 --> 03:35:50,687
we'll come in on 22 July with that feedback. And

3128
03:35:50,687 --> 03:35:53,527
we'll be no further ahead. We'll then be having to

3129
03:35:53,527 --> 03:35:58,843
do additional consultation and. Additional reviews and analysis, I would

3130
03:35:58,843 --> 03:36:03,363
suggest that if this council wishes us to consult more

3131
03:36:03,363 --> 03:36:06,899
than we already have. That we be afforded the time

3132
03:36:06,899 --> 03:36:12,407
to do so. Exhaustively and explore other options and possibilities

3133
03:36:12,407 --> 03:36:15,007
within the city in the same breath. Because we're going

3134
03:36:15,007 --> 03:36:17,407
there no matter what. Come 22 July would be my

3135
03:36:17,407 --> 03:36:23,204
prediction. Okay, mr. Chair. My initial wish was to refer

3136
03:36:23,204 --> 03:36:26,164
the entire thing for a consultation. We're just here and.

3137
03:36:26,164 --> 03:36:29,444
Able to setbacks on Friday, the communities that you're able

3138
03:36:29,444 --> 03:36:31,924
to setbacks today. So I was trying to refer the

3139
03:36:31,924 --> 03:36:34,964
whole thing back for consultation, but it was administration's request.

3140
03:36:34,964 --> 03:36:39,204
That we passed the setbacks tonight. But again, the residents

3141
03:36:39,204 --> 03:36:42,507
just found out tonight what the setbacks are. I mean,

3142
03:36:42,507 --> 03:36:46,369
what kind of consultation is that? We're pushing things down

3143
03:36:46,369 --> 03:36:50,463
people's throats here. The people that are impacted, they want

3144
03:36:50,463 --> 03:36:53,263
input. And who are we to deprive them of? That

3145
03:36:53,263 --> 03:36:57,604
input, so I would refer. The entire package back for

3146
03:36:57,604 --> 03:37:00,524
the complete consultation at the end of August or whatever

3147
03:37:00,524 --> 03:37:05,020
administration says. Because to push this through, even the guidelines,

3148
03:37:05,020 --> 03:37:08,993
when. No one's even seen what the guidelines are. It's

3149
03:37:08,993 --> 03:37:14,524
just ridiculous. So if counter Aguilar would second that we

3150
03:37:14,524 --> 03:37:18,295
referred the entire thing, then that would be. Fine. Okay,

3151
03:37:18,295 --> 03:37:23,098
so we're referring the entire report back. Until the consultation

3152
03:37:23,098 --> 03:37:28,258
on setbacks. On setbacks. And vi count? Yes, please. Okay.

3153
03:37:28,258 --> 03:37:31,218
Is that still. Seconded. Okay, so it's on the floor.

3154
03:37:31,218 --> 03:37:36,909
Seconded. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Yeah. We will go to

3155
03:37:36,909 --> 03:37:41,974
speakers list. Councilor Hamilton, I had first. I've got lots

3156
03:37:41,974 --> 03:37:50,892
of people here. All right. Well, chairs. So much to

3157
03:37:50,892 --> 03:37:53,452
unpack here. I kind of wish you would have come

3158
03:37:53,452 --> 03:37:57,713
to me. First. I probably had some useful information. On

3159
03:37:57,713 --> 03:38:00,353
the role of the DSAB in the community, what we're

3160
03:38:00,353 --> 03:38:06,274
doing, what's happening? What's not happening. I'm not going to

3161
03:38:06,274 --> 03:38:11,595
support the referral. We literally just had the BIA, the

3162
03:38:11,595 --> 03:38:15,915
chair do an hour long deputation, and we peppered them

3163
03:38:15,915 --> 03:38:20,002
with questions for an hour. He went into great detail.

3164
03:38:20,002 --> 03:38:25,627
The most comprehensive. Deputation of all time. No consultation required

3165
03:38:25,627 --> 03:38:31,055
here. Talkable consultation. I'm the McKellar ward. City counselor. I

3166
03:38:31,055 --> 03:38:35,175
visited the encampments. Today. I visited the businesses regularly. I've

3167
03:38:35,175 --> 03:38:38,255
sat on the Fort William BIA. We are all elected

3168
03:38:38,255 --> 03:38:40,455
people if you're not connected with the communities that you

3169
03:38:40,455 --> 03:38:47,247
represent. Why are you here? We are the people. So

3170
03:38:47,247 --> 03:38:48,727
I get that you want to kind of reach out

3171
03:38:48,727 --> 03:38:54,287
to the BIA incoming city manager. Colin already reflected exactly

3172
03:38:54,287 --> 03:38:56,127
what I said. We just had the chair of the

3173
03:38:56,127 --> 03:38:58,847
BIA 20 minutes. Ago, sitting right in front of us

3174
03:38:58,847 --> 03:39:02,734
here saying they don't agree with the law. I would

3175
03:39:02,734 --> 03:39:06,564
much prefer. And I got a ton of different information

3176
03:39:06,564 --> 03:39:09,324
on what the DSAB is doing that I would be

3177
03:39:09,324 --> 03:39:10,884
happy to touch on if someone just asked the question.

3178
03:39:13,277 --> 03:39:17,035
That is absolutely relevant and pertinent to this conversation. Why

3179
03:39:17,035 --> 03:39:18,995
I can't support the referral is because I think that

3180
03:39:18,995 --> 03:39:22,115
this is important to get these guidelines out the door.

3181
03:39:22,115 --> 03:39:25,355
This is important to the community. There's great information there's.

3182
03:39:25,355 --> 03:39:29,286
A very thoughtful approach here that we really need. To

3183
03:39:29,286 --> 03:39:34,416
adopt. And address. And again, and I think it was

3184
03:39:34,416 --> 03:39:37,736
already reflected by the clerk and the chair. Ratification isn't.

3185
03:39:37,736 --> 03:39:39,136
Scheduled for a couple of weeks, and I don't think

3186
03:39:39,136 --> 03:39:42,576
there's any really. Contentious issues. Councilor Gautuga is going to

3187
03:39:42,576 --> 03:39:47,845
bring up distance guidelines. Let's debate that later. My move,

3188
03:39:47,845 --> 03:39:50,325
which I would rather do, to be honest, is to

3189
03:39:50,325 --> 03:39:53,485
just eliminate the whole notion of the pallet village because

3190
03:39:53,485 --> 03:39:54,885
that was in there. We didn't ask for that. We

3191
03:39:54,885 --> 03:39:57,565
asked. For designated sites. I'm fine that it's in there.

3192
03:39:57,565 --> 03:40:01,805
It's exploratory, but the guidelines, I think, is really important

3193
03:40:01,805 --> 03:40:04,125
because that has everything to do with the situation at

3194
03:40:04,125 --> 03:40:07,996
the ground level. The pallet village is interesting. I think

3195
03:40:07,996 --> 03:40:11,196
realty services put it up because it was zoned. Correctly,

3196
03:40:11,196 --> 03:40:13,596
it met all the guidelines, and I think our staff

3197
03:40:13,596 --> 03:40:16,516
and I would support them that I understand the rationale,

3198
03:40:16,516 --> 03:40:19,276
why it's there. I'm not super supportive of the pallet

3199
03:40:19,276 --> 03:40:21,756
village at this time, to be honest. So I don't

3200
03:40:21,756 --> 03:40:24,236
want to really refer it back if we wanted to

3201
03:40:24,236 --> 03:40:26,784
look for other places to do a potential. Pallet village

3202
03:40:26,784 --> 03:40:29,064
or support one. I don't know if I'm interested in

3203
03:40:29,064 --> 03:40:31,944
this. Location as clearly identified by the BAA as not

3204
03:40:31,944 --> 03:40:34,984
being supportive. I don't like the location myself. To be

3205
03:40:34,984 --> 03:40:37,784
honest, I think that there could be potential. I would

3206
03:40:37,784 --> 03:40:42,024
rather referral go. Back to administration saying identify places throughout

3207
03:40:42,024 --> 03:40:45,978
the city, not just focus on that lot. In coming,

3208
03:40:45,978 --> 03:40:48,698
city manager Colin said, very rightly, we're going to be

3209
03:40:48,698 --> 03:40:50,698
in no further. Ahead. If we're just focused on this

3210
03:40:50,698 --> 03:40:53,498
lot that already has shown negative support in the community

3211
03:40:53,498 --> 03:40:56,558
that could tell you it's not going to pass. The

3212
03:40:56,558 --> 03:40:58,798
business community is not going to in any way that

3213
03:40:58,798 --> 03:41:02,626
you package. That is not going to support it. I

3214
03:41:02,626 --> 03:41:05,908
just really wanted to. Just mention one other thing too,

3215
03:41:05,908 --> 03:41:08,548
because it has to be mentioned. The DSAB currently has

3216
03:41:08,548 --> 03:41:12,268
an EOI process out right now and expressing of interest.

3217
03:41:12,268 --> 03:41:16,628
The deadline is on Friday. Anybody, any organization out there

3218
03:41:16,628 --> 03:41:19,868
could fill out the application, submit a proposal. It's not

3219
03:41:19,868 --> 03:41:23,164
that hard. It's. A bunch of paragraphs. Submit your proposal.

3220
03:41:23,164 --> 03:41:26,716
It'll be evaluated. In the coming weeks. And that could

3221
03:41:26,716 --> 03:41:29,556
be a pallet shelter. It could be any kind of

3222
03:41:29,556 --> 03:41:35,080
things, but it's evaluated against other proposals. With. A limited.

3223
03:41:36,262 --> 03:41:39,555
Financial capacity available. There might only be $10 million in

3224
03:41:39,555 --> 03:41:42,434
funding in this next allocation. The reason why I like

3225
03:41:42,434 --> 03:41:45,234
that approach is because it's going to be weighed against

3226
03:41:45,234 --> 03:41:48,994
the dollars and cents of a bunch of other proposals.

3227
03:41:48,994 --> 03:41:54,314
Council Roberto or Council Roberto? Pardon me, deputy Roberto. Rightfully

3228
03:41:54,314 --> 03:41:58,480
brought up the point that. Long term housing solutions are

3229
03:41:58,480 --> 03:42:01,682
where we need to be going as a community. Let's

3230
03:42:01,682 --> 03:42:05,918
just speak to the referral, but. There's a big reason

3231
03:42:05,918 --> 03:42:08,959
why. I think it's a very bad idea to support

3232
03:42:08,959 --> 03:42:14,059
the referral. I would rather edit. The draft resolution, and

3233
03:42:14,059 --> 03:42:16,419
it's my hope that we don't send our staff off.

3234
03:42:16,419 --> 03:42:20,399
On a wild goose chase. We are busy. Council knows

3235
03:42:20,399 --> 03:42:23,439
that. We just heard the deputy. I don't need any

3236
03:42:23,439 --> 03:42:26,159
more consultation. We just. Had it. Okay, so you don't

3237
03:42:26,159 --> 03:42:28,719
support the referral? Of course they don't. Share. Thank you

3238
03:42:28,719 --> 03:42:32,279
for your latitude, but there's rationale on why we need

3239
03:42:32,279 --> 03:42:34,999
to make this decision here. Now, I'm happy to edit

3240
03:42:34,999 --> 03:42:37,359
the resolution, but I don't think the referral is the

3241
03:42:37,359 --> 03:42:40,339
way to go. Thank you. Okay, well, there's some. Procedural

3242
03:42:40,339 --> 03:42:42,419
issues that we should all be aware of. This would

3243
03:42:42,419 --> 03:42:45,979
not be ratified until the 15th unless. We have a

3244
03:42:45,979 --> 03:42:49,859
super majority tonight, so there's some complications. The clerk has

3245
03:42:49,859 --> 03:42:54,788
asked for a five minute recess. To consolidate some of

3246
03:42:54,788 --> 03:42:57,588
the requests that are there and make sure that we

3247
03:42:57,588 --> 03:43:00,668
are on a good path here. Things can get very

3248
03:43:00,668 --> 03:43:04,588
complicated with complicated files like this, so I would recommend

3249
03:43:04,588 --> 03:43:08,665
we recess. And so with that, we get some advice

3250
03:43:08,665 --> 03:43:12,256
on how to move forward and. What's the most efficient

3251
03:43:12,256 --> 03:43:16,295
way to move forward? We're currently discussing a referral to

3252
03:43:16,295 --> 03:43:19,574
the 22nd. And we may or may not have any

3253
03:43:19,574 --> 03:43:23,599
more information. We have to understand the intent of the

3254
03:43:23,599 --> 03:43:28,517
referral. And. What we're actually trying to accomplish. So let's

3255
03:43:28,517 --> 03:43:30,597
take a five minute recess. Do I need a mover.

3256
03:43:30,597 --> 03:43:35,324
Seconder mover. Mayor Boschkoff will move. Councilor Trini will second.

3257
03:43:35,324 --> 03:43:39,375
All in favor? Okay, that is carried. We'll come back

3258
03:43:39,375 --> 03:43:42,295
in five. Minutes.

3259
03:52:39,909 --> 03:52:48,801
We will reconvene. If all members could come back.

3260
03:52:50,602 --> 03:52:51,002
To other desks.

3261
03:53:03,377 --> 03:53:12,903
Online in postcard. Okay? So, clerk power, you have consulted

3262
03:53:12,903 --> 03:53:18,064
with administration and. You have some advice for us? So,

3263
03:53:18,064 --> 03:53:20,304
chair, I will start and then certainly ask to pass

3264
03:53:20,304 --> 03:53:24,245
it. Over to my colleagues in administration. The recommendation from

3265
03:53:24,245 --> 03:53:28,885
administration is with respect to the distance guidelines that they

3266
03:53:28,885 --> 03:53:33,645
be adopted subject to ongoing review, and it's important to

3267
03:53:33,645 --> 03:53:35,485
note this is something that is being done in other

3268
03:53:35,485 --> 03:53:40,350
municipalities. Again. Director Olsen can speak to it. The second

3269
03:53:40,350 --> 03:53:44,630
recommendation is that paragraph two be removed. So the VI

3270
03:53:44,630 --> 03:53:49,286
count lot simply be removed at this time. And then

3271
03:53:49,286 --> 03:53:52,006
again, we'll come back to you with potential options. The

3272
03:53:52,006 --> 03:53:55,446
referral is duly. Moved and seconded. Therefore, it does have

3273
03:53:55,446 --> 03:53:59,126
to be voted on in order to entertain those changes.

3274
03:53:59,126 --> 03:54:02,686
But that's what administration recommends. Chair referral is still on

3275
03:54:02,686 --> 03:54:07,029
the floor. Yeah, the referral is on the floor. So

3276
03:54:07,029 --> 03:54:10,206
we will speak to the referral if. You like what

3277
03:54:10,206 --> 03:54:19,722
you'd heard? About. I'm not sure what that was. I

3278
03:54:19,722 --> 03:54:23,162
believe he turned his microphone off. So we'll speak to

3279
03:54:23,162 --> 03:54:27,638
the referral with the idea that. If you like, passing

3280
03:54:27,638 --> 03:54:31,478
what has been presented for setbacks with the understanding it'd

3281
03:54:31,478 --> 03:54:34,838
be. Ongoing review to remove the vicount lot with the

3282
03:54:34,838 --> 03:54:38,927
understanding that options would come forward at another time. Then,

3283
03:54:38,927 --> 03:54:46,103
I guess. We shall defeat the referral. And. Pass this

3284
03:54:46,103 --> 03:54:50,174
amendment. If you want to refer everything and come back

3285
03:54:50,174 --> 03:54:56,495
in July or August on the bycount. Lot. Getting consultation,

3286
03:54:56,495 --> 03:55:01,287
then you would pass the referral, okay? So, councilor Hamilton,

3287
03:55:01,287 --> 03:55:06,410
you had spoken. First round, Mayor Boschkov's next. I only

3288
03:55:06,410 --> 03:55:10,537
question. A way of trying to find. To make this

3289
03:55:10,537 --> 03:55:13,457
more expeditious so we could move. On it quicker, it

3290
03:55:13,457 --> 03:55:20,320
seems like. By the time. The reports come back. And

3291
03:55:20,320 --> 03:55:24,667
the end of the fiscal encampment season. Will be coming.

3292
03:55:25,855 --> 03:55:30,467
To. An end as opposed to right now. It's in

3293
03:55:30,467 --> 03:55:36,041
its maximum growth period. So I was hoping that. We

3294
03:55:36,041 --> 03:55:41,695
could do something now because it's affecting people. This is

3295
03:55:41,695 --> 03:55:46,775
the most poignantly difficult time for the community as the

3296
03:55:46,775 --> 03:55:53,200
influx starts to peak. So my conclusion may be that

3297
03:55:53,200 --> 03:55:59,499
in listening to everyone. That. Will lose this year to.

3298
03:56:02,196 --> 03:56:09,504
Another season. Of encamping. And that we'll be more prepared

3299
03:56:09,504 --> 03:56:13,523
for the fall or the winter. But thank you, chair.

3300
03:56:15,570 --> 03:56:21,535
Thank you, Councilor Aguilar. Thank you very much. Just to

3301
03:56:21,535 --> 03:56:25,255
clarify, you're suggesting that we just removed the vicon lot

3302
03:56:25,255 --> 03:56:30,901
so that we. Have proper consultation. And alternate sites that

3303
03:56:30,901 --> 03:56:34,937
come up. So, chair. Procedurally, I can't recommend that to

3304
03:56:34,937 --> 03:56:37,337
you because the referral is still. On the floor. What

3305
03:56:37,337 --> 03:56:40,337
I'm providing you with is an alternate option should the

3306
03:56:40,337 --> 03:56:43,497
referral. Not pass. The council could consider that has been

3307
03:56:43,497 --> 03:56:48,859
recommended by administration. Okay, so that means once we adopt,

3308
03:56:48,859 --> 03:56:53,654
should we accept this? Then we would accept all the

3309
03:56:53,654 --> 03:56:58,286
other terms of the report. And the distancing would not

3310
03:56:58,286 --> 03:57:03,365
have any further consultation. So chair through you what has

3311
03:57:03,365 --> 03:57:07,165
been again suggested. We're not entertaining it at this moment.

3312
03:57:07,165 --> 03:57:10,765
Is that there be subject to ongoing review. So you

3313
03:57:10,765 --> 03:57:14,725
adopt again. There's been consultation, especially. With residents of encampments

3314
03:57:14,725 --> 03:57:18,045
to say they're open to these guidelines and these distance

3315
03:57:18,045 --> 03:57:23,138
requirements. Starting there and then looking again for there to

3316
03:57:23,138 --> 03:57:24,978
be ongoing review to come back to you to say,

3317
03:57:24,978 --> 03:57:31,952
how is it working? Okay. Can I have a question

3318
03:57:31,952 --> 03:57:40,080
to administration? Pertaining to the referral. To the referral. Please.

3319
03:57:41,814 --> 03:57:44,654
For the referral, for the distancing. Did we consult with.

3320
03:57:47,929 --> 03:57:53,969
Anybody. Other than. The unhoused and the service providers to

3321
03:57:53,969 --> 03:57:57,249
the unhoused through the chair. No, we did not. We

3322
03:57:57,249 --> 03:57:59,369
did not have the time frame in order to do

3323
03:57:59,369 --> 03:58:03,009
that. We were requested to bring options back to council

3324
03:58:03,009 --> 03:58:08,120
within two months. Okay, I'm going to have a challenge

3325
03:58:08,120 --> 03:58:15,853
supporting something that didn't have any other input. From other

3326
03:58:15,853 --> 03:58:22,093
stakeholders that are in the neighborhood. Of the encampment. We've

3327
03:58:22,093 --> 03:58:25,313
only consulted with one side. And we haven't heard from

3328
03:58:25,313 --> 03:58:29,273
the other side. We need both sides to make a

3329
03:58:29,273 --> 03:58:33,593
calculated educated decision. I know this is a good first

3330
03:58:33,593 --> 03:58:38,320
step, what's being recommended, but I don't think. We've had

3331
03:58:38,320 --> 03:58:41,400
the opportunity, not even the five days that we normally

3332
03:58:41,400 --> 03:58:45,214
get for the public. To have their input. This is

3333
03:58:45,214 --> 03:58:49,006
where the challenge comes. It's very difficult because I would

3334
03:58:49,006 --> 03:58:51,606
love to take this report and say yes, except for

3335
03:58:51,606 --> 03:58:58,132
Vy count. However, if Mrs. Jones calls and says she's

3336
03:58:58,132 --> 03:59:00,812
disgruntled because she didn't, get to have a say because

3337
03:59:00,812 --> 03:59:05,931
it wasn't fair for her. Then what? So the question

3338
03:59:05,931 --> 03:59:14,440
is, will the public have a say? And we have

3339
03:59:14,440 --> 03:59:17,440
until the 15th. Right. This is now going to be

3340
03:59:17,440 --> 03:59:21,320
in the community. These setbacks. Until the 15th. They can

3341
03:59:21,320 --> 03:59:24,760
have a say if on the 15th, any member around

3342
03:59:24,760 --> 03:59:28,000
the table. Feels that hasn't been sufficient or you want

3343
03:59:28,000 --> 03:59:33,547
further consultation? That can come up at ratification. Thank you.

3344
03:59:33,547 --> 03:59:36,827
Okay, one last question, then. For administration, there was something.

3345
03:59:36,827 --> 03:59:40,867
Mentioned about London changing their setbacks, and we didn't incorporate

3346
03:59:40,867 --> 03:59:44,922
that because it was so new. Through the chair. Yes,

3347
03:59:44,922 --> 03:59:48,076
that's correct. There are distance guidelines. They were not changed.

3348
03:59:48,076 --> 03:59:52,116
They're new. They were released after our distance. Guidelines had

3349
03:59:52,116 --> 03:59:55,669
been devised. Through the chair, if I may. This also

3350
03:59:55,669 --> 03:59:58,909
gives us an opportunity to continue benchmarking against what other

3351
03:59:58,909 --> 04:00:08,206
municipalities are doing. We didn't just blindly bring these recommendations

3352
04:00:08,206 --> 04:00:13,243
forward. And these setbacks as council is describing them today.

3353
04:00:13,243 --> 04:00:16,901
We did look at what other communities are doing? And

3354
04:00:16,901 --> 04:00:19,861
this is based on the only type of evidence that's

3355
04:00:19,861 --> 04:00:23,807
really out there. This is new grounds for municipalities to

3356
04:00:23,807 --> 04:00:27,127
undertake, and we see this as an opportunity to actually

3357
04:00:27,127 --> 04:00:30,927
be able to start to action with some clear guidelines.

3358
04:00:30,927 --> 04:00:34,327
Continue the communication and we do commit to ongoing review.

3359
04:00:35,333 --> 04:00:39,093
And bringing additional information back. Should multiple municipalities go with

3360
04:00:39,093 --> 04:00:42,693
100 meters distance guideline we would bring that forward to

3361
04:00:42,693 --> 04:00:46,566
council for your consideration. Through the chair. I'd also just

3362
04:00:46,566 --> 04:00:50,566
like to add that Hamilton's newly revised distances did not

3363
04:00:50,566 --> 04:00:53,006
adjust the 10 meters away from a private property line,

3364
04:00:53,006 --> 04:00:57,699
so that is still their current guideline. Thank you. At

3365
04:00:57,699 --> 04:01:00,099
no point did I think this was not a robust

3366
04:01:00,099 --> 04:01:03,944
report. I really do like the report. I did not

3367
04:01:03,944 --> 04:01:07,664
like the fact that the BIA, the businesses, the immediately

3368
04:01:07,664 --> 04:01:10,704
abutting neighbor, nor the fact there was no signage on

3369
04:01:10,704 --> 04:01:13,944
that lot, there was no consultation on the lot that's.

3370
04:01:13,944 --> 04:01:17,741
Where I had my biggest issue. The rest of it.

3371
04:01:17,741 --> 04:01:19,821
There's a lot of work done there, and I appreciate

3372
04:01:19,821 --> 04:01:22,821
that work. That's been done and brought forward to try

3373
04:01:22,821 --> 04:01:28,127
to find a solution to a very challenging problem. There's

3374
04:01:28,127 --> 04:01:31,087
one major piece I didn't like, but now I'm just

3375
04:01:31,087 --> 04:01:35,084
questioning. The others. Because of what's been brought forward. That's

3376
04:01:35,084 --> 04:01:38,324
all. I thank you for what you've done except that

3377
04:01:38,324 --> 04:01:43,907
one piece. Thank you. Thank you, Councilor Chung. Thank you

3378
04:01:43,907 --> 04:01:48,611
very much. Chair. I'm not sure. I think we might

3379
04:01:48,611 --> 04:01:54,377
be confusing consultation. With getting feedback from constituents after a

3380
04:01:54,377 --> 04:01:59,483
report comes out. From my understanding, consultation was done with

3381
04:01:59,483 --> 04:02:02,243
a number of people, not to the extent that maybe

3382
04:02:02,243 --> 04:02:05,083
we would like it because we changed the timeline on

3383
04:02:05,083 --> 04:02:10,007
that. I'm a little bit concerned about consulting on the

3384
04:02:10,007 --> 04:02:13,893
property use, because we are not. Changing any zoning for

3385
04:02:13,893 --> 04:02:19,143
it, which is why I think. In my recollection, why

3386
04:02:19,143 --> 04:02:22,183
we would actually consult as if we're changing zoning and

3387
04:02:22,183 --> 04:02:25,383
property use. But this wouldn't be changing property use, which

3388
04:02:25,383 --> 04:02:29,718
is why it came forward. Having said that, somebody could

3389
04:02:29,718 --> 04:02:34,310
actually purchase. This property or put an encampment, a private

3390
04:02:34,310 --> 04:02:37,150
encampment on it, and we would have no say because

3391
04:02:37,150 --> 04:02:43,690
that's what it's zoned for. I'm satisfied with. The work

3392
04:02:43,690 --> 04:02:46,290
that administration has done in the time frame that we've

3393
04:02:46,290 --> 04:02:50,782
given them. I live on McVicker Creek area and have

3394
04:02:50,782 --> 04:02:54,742
spoken at length with my neighbors and other residents. I

3395
04:02:54,742 --> 04:02:58,920
asked them to submit their questions. Which I've done. I

3396
04:02:58,920 --> 04:03:03,240
have almost a dozen questions to bring up to administration.

3397
04:03:03,240 --> 04:03:07,660
However, I don't think that's going to require. Referral back

3398
04:03:07,660 --> 04:03:10,660
to administration when I could easily take these questions offline

3399
04:03:10,660 --> 04:03:16,880
and get my answers. Between now and July. If this

3400
04:03:16,880 --> 04:03:20,120
report passes tonight, when would it come back for ratification?

3401
04:03:20,120 --> 04:03:22,360
For the referral that came? Forward from councilor Gautuga was

3402
04:03:22,360 --> 04:03:25,800
July the 22nd. No, sorry. The original report. If we.

3403
04:03:25,800 --> 04:03:29,760
Just passed the report tonight. It's the 15th. For ratification.

3404
04:03:29,760 --> 04:03:34,983
Yes, ratification. Okay. That would give constituents a few weeks

3405
04:03:34,983 --> 04:03:38,623
to. Three weeks to message, to talk. I could email.

3406
04:03:40,995 --> 04:03:44,315
Manager Olsen, who have no problem working these things out

3407
04:03:44,315 --> 04:03:49,779
with. So chair, I'm hesitant to support. Actually, I wouldn't

3408
04:03:49,779 --> 04:03:55,111
even support this. But I do have a question. If

3409
04:03:55,111 --> 04:04:00,327
we go an alternative route. Can we change the guidelines

3410
04:04:00,327 --> 04:04:01,927
as we go, or do we need to notice a

3411
04:04:01,927 --> 04:04:07,233
motion so it's more of a technical question. So chair

3412
04:04:07,233 --> 04:04:11,233
through you. Based on the recommendation from administration, you wouldn't

3413
04:04:11,233 --> 04:04:13,513
need a notice of. Motion to change the guidelines because

3414
04:04:13,513 --> 04:04:17,233
they would be subject to ongoing review. So as information

3415
04:04:17,233 --> 04:04:21,091
is collected again. We know that there is case law

3416
04:04:21,091 --> 04:04:24,291
that is emerging. As those things change, administration would bring

3417
04:04:24,291 --> 04:04:29,194
you that information. Okay. I'm very satisfied with the guidelines

3418
04:04:29,194 --> 04:04:33,161
I've been brought forward. We won't get this perfect. It

3419
04:04:33,161 --> 04:04:38,779
won't be perfect. And I'm quite happy to actually support

3420
04:04:38,779 --> 04:04:41,619
the report tonight. But understand that there's some other things

3421
04:04:41,619 --> 04:04:45,504
at place, so. I won't be supporting the referral. Thank

3422
04:04:45,504 --> 04:04:50,826
you, chair. Thank you. We have Councilor Trini next. Thank

3423
04:04:50,826 --> 04:04:54,498
you to the chair. Similar. I will not be supporting

3424
04:04:54,498 --> 04:04:58,178
the deferral, the referral, the distance guidelines. I think is

3425
04:04:58,178 --> 04:05:02,250
a good start. We needed something. And something's better than

3426
04:05:02,250 --> 04:05:05,330
nothing. And as we've already been told, that we can

3427
04:05:05,330 --> 04:05:08,170
modify this as we go along. I think administration did

3428
04:05:08,170 --> 04:05:11,764
an excellent job of looking for best practice. There is

3429
04:05:11,764 --> 04:05:13,804
very limited best practice, but they did go out there

3430
04:05:13,804 --> 04:05:16,764
and look for that and produce. That for us, the

3431
04:05:16,764 --> 04:05:20,604
July 15 date is our consultation from now till then

3432
04:05:20,604 --> 04:05:23,244
and recognizing that we can change those and recognizing the

3433
04:05:23,244 --> 04:05:27,364
communities are changing them as required by the community. So

3434
04:05:27,364 --> 04:05:30,998
I am fine with that piece. The distance piece altogether.

3435
04:05:30,998 --> 04:05:34,158
The property suggestion, I kind of a little bit more

3436
04:05:34,158 --> 04:05:37,318
hesitant on, I think. We're giving a message to people

3437
04:05:37,318 --> 04:05:42,434
in the Fort William area. That. This is more than

3438
04:05:42,434 --> 04:05:45,074
just a potential that we're saying that this is it.

3439
04:05:46,407 --> 04:05:47,967
And so I would like to see that off of

3440
04:05:47,967 --> 04:05:51,207
the motion myself. I think we can deal. With that

3441
04:05:51,207 --> 04:05:54,047
down the road, if a community partner comes forward and

3442
04:05:54,047 --> 04:05:56,167
says, we're interested, but I think we're putting the cart

3443
04:05:56,167 --> 04:05:59,407
before the horse until that actual time comes, so I

3444
04:05:59,407 --> 04:06:07,839
will not be supporting this referral. Thank you. Councilor. Thank

3445
04:06:07,839 --> 04:06:10,919
you. Through the chair. So, in regards to the distance

3446
04:06:10,919 --> 04:06:16,127
guidelines, Just on the sheet that we have. Where would

3447
04:06:16,127 --> 04:06:19,127
business be? Would that be within the 20 meters? As

3448
04:06:19,127 --> 04:06:20,887
well, because there's no picture of a business or it

3449
04:06:20,887 --> 04:06:23,967
doesn't state business. On here. So where would that be?

3450
04:06:26,137 --> 04:06:29,177
Through the chair. I would put that under the entrances

3451
04:06:29,177 --> 04:06:32,097
and exits cannot be within 5 meters of. An entrance

3452
04:06:32,097 --> 04:06:35,661
nor an exit. And I also believe that a business

3453
04:06:35,661 --> 04:06:40,566
is considered a private property. Well, then, is it 20

3454
04:06:40,566 --> 04:06:44,046
or is it five? It would be the one that's

3455
04:06:44,046 --> 04:06:45,686
sorry. Through the chair, it would be the one that's

3456
04:06:45,686 --> 04:06:48,806
more. So 20 meters. Okay, so business. Would be considered

3457
04:06:48,806 --> 04:06:56,094
a private property even though it's public business. Is for

3458
04:06:56,094 --> 04:07:03,321
the public, is it not? Through the chair. Businesses are

3459
04:07:03,321 --> 04:07:06,001
privately owned, so we would anticipate that it's also in

3460
04:07:06,001 --> 04:07:09,561
that. Thank you for that clarification. And then just on

3461
04:07:09,561 --> 04:07:13,121
page five of the report, it says the task force

3462
04:07:13,121 --> 04:07:16,801
exemplifies a collaborative approach coordinated by the city and includes

3463
04:07:16,801 --> 04:07:24,045
representation from. There's no indigenous agencies on this list. And

3464
04:07:24,045 --> 04:07:29,335
I find that odd. Since. We talk about homelessness and

3465
04:07:29,335 --> 04:07:37,095
stuff, I believe. It's. 70. Percent up. Or greater. Involve

3466
04:07:37,095 --> 04:07:44,381
indigenous peoples. Is that something? Hopefully down the road. We

3467
04:07:44,381 --> 04:07:48,221
can maybe visit. So through the chair, we would certainly

3468
04:07:48,221 --> 04:07:52,901
welcome an indigenous organization who responds to homelessness. The task

3469
04:07:52,901 --> 04:07:57,535
force isn't an advisory, so I will just caution. Committee

3470
04:07:57,535 --> 04:08:00,095
that perhaps there might be some misperception as to what

3471
04:08:00,095 --> 04:08:02,855
the task force is. It really is a coordinating body

3472
04:08:02,855 --> 04:08:06,175
to better understand the response measures that are required and

3473
04:08:06,175 --> 04:08:13,419
make assessments. On risk mitigation. And individual site needs. I

3474
04:08:13,419 --> 04:08:19,120
will also share that. Many of the indigenous organizations in

3475
04:08:19,120 --> 04:08:23,040
our community are tapped to attend multiple meetings and may

3476
04:08:23,040 --> 04:08:28,246
not. Have the resources or the time to afford. And

3477
04:08:28,246 --> 04:08:31,486
sit at biweekly meetings with us, but they are absolutely

3478
04:08:31,486 --> 04:08:35,345
welcome and we will continue. To explore that. Okay, but

3479
04:08:35,345 --> 04:08:39,961
the invitations go out, obviously inviting everyone, correct? Through the

3480
04:08:39,961 --> 04:08:42,321
chair. The invitations go out to the members that have

3481
04:08:42,321 --> 04:08:47,813
been listed on there. It is a very small task

3482
04:08:47,813 --> 04:08:52,740
force. It requires. What we generally call our enforcement partners,

3483
04:08:52,740 --> 04:08:57,100
and that's largely police, fire and the health unit. And

3484
04:08:57,100 --> 04:09:01,783
the LRCa. And we did have membership with the CP

3485
04:09:01,783 --> 04:09:04,903
police. However, the individual who was in that position in

3486
04:09:04,903 --> 04:09:07,463
Thunder Bay did relocate, so we don't have a new

3487
04:09:07,463 --> 04:09:12,943
member at this time, and then it's multiple organization representatives

3488
04:09:12,943 --> 04:09:16,303
from within the city who are directly impacted. For example,

3489
04:09:16,303 --> 04:09:20,927
parks, municipal licensing enforcement because. They field a number of

3490
04:09:20,927 --> 04:09:26,740
calls. DSAB and the two partners that actually provide. Warming

3491
04:09:26,740 --> 04:09:29,540
and cooling shelters in the community, as well as do

3492
04:09:29,540 --> 04:09:32,580
some direct response in the encampments I appreciate that. Thank

3493
04:09:32,580 --> 04:09:40,014
you. Next we have councilor Pascalino. Thank you very much

3494
04:09:40,014 --> 04:09:44,089
for this report. And thank you. And through the chair.

3495
04:09:46,059 --> 04:09:50,107
What I am concerned about is, first of all, The

3496
04:09:50,107 --> 04:09:53,147
first inkling that I got as a city councilor, and

3497
04:09:53,147 --> 04:10:00,150
I realized it was just elected. February, March of 2023.

3498
04:10:00,150 --> 04:10:03,430
So shortly after I was elected, that's when we decided

3499
04:10:03,430 --> 04:10:06,733
to go on this route. And then it got delayed.

3500
04:10:08,274 --> 04:10:09,794
It was supposed to be in the first quarter of

3501
04:10:09,794 --> 04:10:16,492
2024. Now we got that report. In April. So that

3502
04:10:16,492 --> 04:10:20,412
was past the first quarter. And now we got this

3503
04:10:20,412 --> 04:10:23,972
one. And now we're talking about delaying it further. So

3504
04:10:23,972 --> 04:10:28,372
my problem is I really don't want to. Delay it

3505
04:10:28,372 --> 04:10:32,012
much further. I want some action taken on it, however.

3506
04:10:33,247 --> 04:10:34,887
There are a lot of things on here I'd like

3507
04:10:34,887 --> 04:10:39,327
to change. I'd like. To see maybe better enforcement on

3508
04:10:39,327 --> 04:10:43,767
the distant guidelines that we hear. And I'd like to

3509
04:10:43,767 --> 04:10:48,473
see more of them and see them also increase. But

3510
04:10:48,473 --> 04:10:51,553
we are talking about that at a different time right

3511
04:10:51,553 --> 04:10:53,873
now. We're not there, right? Now. Right now, we're only

3512
04:10:53,873 --> 04:10:57,863
talking about. The depth. The change of the report back.

3513
04:10:59,907 --> 04:11:03,684
So. I'm going to go ahead and say that. I

3514
04:11:03,684 --> 04:11:06,504
will support. Not support. The thing to bring it back.

3515
04:11:09,174 --> 04:11:12,518
Later on in July. And I'd like to work on

3516
04:11:12,518 --> 04:11:17,927
this. The guidelines to make sure that they're stronger. And

3517
04:11:17,927 --> 04:11:21,007
perhaps more enforcement. And then there's other things we can

3518
04:11:21,007 --> 04:11:25,327
talk about. But my concern is that what happens? Because

3519
04:11:25,327 --> 04:11:28,887
nobody said this yet. What happens if this whole thing

3520
04:11:28,887 --> 04:11:32,327
gets rejected, then? Where are we? Are we back to

3521
04:11:32,327 --> 04:11:36,625
square one that we were back in 2023? Well, if

3522
04:11:36,625 --> 04:11:43,028
it gets rejected. Yeah, it gets rejected. But. I don't

3523
04:11:43,028 --> 04:11:44,908
see that happening around the table. I mean, we're all

3524
04:11:44,908 --> 04:11:50,588
wanting to. Get to a solution. Okay. So. My final

3525
04:11:50,588 --> 04:11:53,588
thought on this is to bring it forward and hopefully.

3526
04:11:54,744 --> 04:11:57,504
We can get something solid in the guidelines that are

3527
04:11:57,504 --> 04:12:00,504
going to meet everybody's needs here. At the table today.

3528
04:12:02,291 --> 04:12:07,980
Okay. And we have councilor Zizino. Okay, so we'll call

3529
04:12:07,980 --> 04:12:11,140
the question on the referral with the knowledge that we

3530
04:12:11,140 --> 04:12:15,742
have. An alternate, if that's your preference. So all in

3531
04:12:15,742 --> 04:12:19,782
favor of the referral? Oh, Councilor GrT, did you wish

3532
04:12:19,782 --> 04:12:24,018
to speak on the referral second round? Sorry. Just really

3533
04:12:24,018 --> 04:12:27,098
quick, did I hear that correct, that we consulted with

3534
04:12:27,098 --> 04:12:30,418
the people that are living with the encampments, and they're

3535
04:12:30,418 --> 04:12:34,805
okay with the guidelines, the distance guidelines, but. We didn't

3536
04:12:34,805 --> 04:12:36,685
consult with the surrounding residents. Did I hear that correctly?

3537
04:12:38,133 --> 04:12:43,399
Yes, through the chair. That's actually. A significant tenant of

3538
04:12:43,399 --> 04:12:47,483
a human rights based approach. Wow. I can't wait to

3539
04:12:47,483 --> 04:12:49,923
tell residents that when constituents that would they call me

3540
04:12:49,923 --> 04:12:56,957
tomorrow. Thank you. Okay. So. We are going back to

3541
04:12:56,957 --> 04:13:00,757
the vote on the referral. All in favor of the

3542
04:13:00,757 --> 04:13:08,928
referral? We have one. And any opposed? Okay, that did

3543
04:13:08,928 --> 04:13:15,027
not carry so the referral. Is. Off. The floor, I

3544
04:13:15,027 --> 04:13:19,533
guess we'd say. It would come down to somebody moving

3545
04:13:19,533 --> 04:13:23,213
and seconding, I guess the alternate, if they're interested. Councilor

3546
04:13:23,213 --> 04:13:29,548
Adriani. You are. Any seconders for Councilor Ayello? Let's read

3547
04:13:29,548 --> 04:13:33,668
the alternative. It's on the floor. So the alternate option

3548
04:13:33,668 --> 04:13:40,082
as provided. By administration. Is to again adopt the distance

3549
04:13:40,082 --> 04:13:44,042
guideline as outlined in the report, subject to ongoing review.

3550
04:13:44,042 --> 04:13:47,202
Understanding that administration will continue to report back to you

3551
04:13:47,202 --> 04:13:51,962
as the landscape changes. Also to remove the reference. To

3552
04:13:51,962 --> 04:13:56,557
the vicount lot from paragraph two. Or remove paragraph two

3553
04:13:56,557 --> 04:13:59,477
completely. And the reference to the viacount law in paragraph

3554
04:13:59,477 --> 04:14:03,351
three? So it removes the VI count lot again. Administration

3555
04:14:03,351 --> 04:14:06,431
would report back on a future site and then those

3556
04:14:06,431 --> 04:14:08,631
guidelines would be subject to review. All of this would

3557
04:14:08,631 --> 04:14:12,930
be subject to ratification on the 15 July. The reports

3558
04:14:12,930 --> 04:14:20,304
on the floor. Ask questions in its entirety. And of

3559
04:14:20,304 --> 04:14:24,738
the deputations at this point in time. Did I? Counselor

3560
04:14:24,738 --> 04:14:29,429
Trinity, did you have your hand up? I was just

3561
04:14:29,429 --> 04:14:32,829
going to verify. Part of the initial resolution was to

3562
04:14:32,829 --> 04:14:36,193
continue the advocacy. That's correct. So none of that would

3563
04:14:36,193 --> 04:14:39,793
be removed. So again, you're talking about. City council advocating

3564
04:14:39,793 --> 04:14:42,953
to the Government of Ontario of Canada, copy of this

3565
04:14:42,953 --> 04:14:45,913
resolution, once ratified, being sent to all of the partners

3566
04:14:45,913 --> 04:14:53,182
you see in the recommendation. Thank you. Councilor Johnson. Thank

3567
04:14:53,182 --> 04:14:55,862
you. Chair through you. So we're back on the original.

3568
04:15:01,113 --> 04:15:04,901
Yeah, but it is amended. Yes, right. But I mean,

3569
04:15:04,901 --> 04:15:08,581
the contents of the report are all open for discussion.

3570
04:15:08,581 --> 04:15:15,407
Just clarifying. The report. Mentions. The ongoing issue, if you

3571
04:15:15,407 --> 04:15:20,247
will, asks for an additional supervisor and two outreach workers,

3572
04:15:20,247 --> 04:15:27,339
as well as $450,000. In the next year's budget. Just

3573
04:15:27,339 --> 04:15:35,935
wondering. Was there, thought or was. There. Ideas put forward

3574
04:15:35,935 --> 04:15:40,975
to give that monies instead to stakeholders. Say like the

3575
04:15:40,975 --> 04:15:45,912
DSAb being that they're the lead on this issue. Through

3576
04:15:45,912 --> 04:15:53,680
the chair. Those funds represent. Administration's ability to actually direct

3577
04:15:53,680 --> 04:15:57,680
administration work. So right now we work in good faith

3578
04:15:57,680 --> 04:16:02,191
and in collaboration with community partners. But there are times

3579
04:16:02,191 --> 04:16:06,737
where we are getting multiple report. Reports of encampments of

3580
04:16:06,737 --> 04:16:11,137
concerns in the community, and we aren't adequately resourced. To

3581
04:16:11,137 --> 04:16:17,065
effectively and immediately respond, go and do the engagement. Potentially

3582
04:16:17,065 --> 04:16:23,502
support individuals with relocation. Our community partners have given a

3583
04:16:23,502 --> 04:16:30,053
substantial amount of. In kind staffing support to. This and

3584
04:16:30,053 --> 04:16:32,773
to other community safety and well being initiatives in our

3585
04:16:32,773 --> 04:16:38,059
community. And in particular this response as a community collaborative.

3586
04:16:39,671 --> 04:16:42,589
Our main community partner. This is a stretch of their

3587
04:16:42,589 --> 04:16:45,829
mandate. It aligns with it, but it is a stretch

3588
04:16:45,829 --> 04:16:49,269
and when we're talking about the ability to do community

3589
04:16:49,269 --> 04:16:54,549
cleanups, to work with external partners. External vendors to do

3590
04:16:54,549 --> 04:16:58,229
garbage collection, portable toilets. All of that costs additional funds

3591
04:16:58,229 --> 04:17:02,317
and. That's part of this. So in previous reports, we

3592
04:17:02,317 --> 04:17:06,237
did bring forward recommendation for budget in the range of

3593
04:17:06,237 --> 04:17:10,803
$20,000. That's when we were working with about 30 people

3594
04:17:10,803 --> 04:17:14,763
living in encampments. We are triple that. And in order

3595
04:17:14,763 --> 04:17:18,123
to effectively respond and manage the amount of calls that

3596
04:17:18,123 --> 04:17:21,855
we are getting, from the community. Should council wish us

3597
04:17:21,855 --> 04:17:29,022
to implement. And while. These aren't legal guidelines. The enforceability

3598
04:17:29,022 --> 04:17:32,942
would be the ability to develop and maintain relationships. With

3599
04:17:32,942 --> 04:17:38,432
individuals to help support those voluntary relocations as outlined. In

3600
04:17:38,432 --> 04:17:43,348
the relocation protocol. Okay, we have a lot of information

3601
04:17:43,348 --> 04:17:46,268
here tonight, and certainly we have this platform. The video

3602
04:17:46,268 --> 04:17:51,147
exists. Online for quite some time. But how is administration?

3603
04:17:53,036 --> 04:17:56,857
's rollout. For communicating what we're doing tonight and what

3604
04:17:56,857 --> 04:18:00,050
their plan going forward. What does that look like? As

3605
04:18:00,050 --> 04:18:04,050
you know, I'm big on how we communicate to residents.

3606
04:18:04,050 --> 04:18:08,010
What's the plan going forward? To blast this out to

3607
04:18:08,010 --> 04:18:10,650
those that are interested or not. Even interested, but just

3608
04:18:10,650 --> 04:18:14,370
in general, to get to sell to everybody. So through

3609
04:18:14,370 --> 04:18:19,090
the chair we've. Already amended the city's website so previously.

3610
04:18:19,561 --> 04:18:22,984
On the report a problem page. Within the city's website

3611
04:18:22,984 --> 04:18:26,304
that lists a whole bunch of different areas. Encampments was

3612
04:18:26,304 --> 04:18:31,650
never listed there, so that already exists now. The number

3613
04:18:31,650 --> 04:18:35,490
still goes to 24 hours. Dispatch, you can do an

3614
04:18:35,490 --> 04:18:39,306
online reporting. We are also working behind the scenes to

3615
04:18:39,306 --> 04:18:43,398
establish. A specific area within the city's website to clearly

3616
04:18:43,398 --> 04:18:50,049
outline the response protocol update. The timelines, how city would

3617
04:18:50,049 --> 04:18:55,851
effectively respond. We do plan to share this information further

3618
04:18:55,851 --> 04:18:58,451
out on our social media channels, we can share it.

3619
04:18:59,843 --> 04:19:05,672
Through our podcast. And we will continue to. Do. A

3620
04:19:05,672 --> 04:19:10,455
media release post council decision as well. Additionally, I think

3621
04:19:10,455 --> 04:19:14,775
the other component that is required is communication for individuals

3622
04:19:14,775 --> 04:19:18,215
living in encampments. And that will come by word of

3623
04:19:18,215 --> 04:19:22,855
mouth. That will be relationship dependent. Yeah. Very good. I

3624
04:19:22,855 --> 04:19:25,975
would also like to acknowledge that there's a proposed 68

3625
04:19:25,975 --> 04:19:32,656
people currently experiencing. Less. Currently experiencing homelessness that will be

3626
04:19:32,656 --> 04:19:34,376
added to the advisory table. So I think that's a

3627
04:19:34,376 --> 04:19:39,041
great idea as well. Share councilor Chung's enthusiasm for the

3628
04:19:39,041 --> 04:19:41,041
work that the team has done, and I'm happy to

3629
04:19:41,041 --> 04:19:44,201
support it. Mumbling my words. It is getting late. The

3630
04:19:44,201 --> 04:19:47,601
11:00 resolution. Soon to come, so thank you. Chair. Thank

3631
04:19:47,601 --> 04:19:52,713
you to the team. Thank you. It's coming up. Next

3632
04:19:52,713 --> 04:19:57,063
on the list I have councilor Hamilton. Yeah. Thank you,

3633
04:19:57,063 --> 04:20:02,248
chair and. I'm glad. The almost former city manager Norm

3634
04:20:02,248 --> 04:20:05,208
Gail used to talk about standing your lane, right. And

3635
04:20:05,208 --> 04:20:09,782
it's important to recognize that we have a role. Where

3636
04:20:09,782 --> 04:20:12,622
it put the DsAb hat on. These are DSAB clients,

3637
04:20:12,622 --> 04:20:16,062
many of them, but these are city residents. Right? So

3638
04:20:16,062 --> 04:20:20,210
that's the overlap. So we have a duty. To, I

3639
04:20:20,210 --> 04:20:25,245
think, mitigate some of the concerns around. Our residents about.

3640
04:20:26,937 --> 04:20:31,774
Litter disruption. In general. But, I mean, this is a

3641
04:20:31,774 --> 04:20:34,094
DSAB issue, like the province has come to the table

3642
04:20:34,094 --> 04:20:38,113
with. A generous portion of funding that is getting rolled

3643
04:20:38,113 --> 04:20:41,113
out the door. We added 52 new transitional beds. Just

3644
04:20:41,113 --> 04:20:45,433
in this last batch of homeless prevention funding, and presumably

3645
04:20:45,433 --> 04:20:48,623
the same over the next two years. So I think

3646
04:20:48,623 --> 04:20:50,743
it's important to actually just stay focused on the long

3647
04:20:50,743 --> 04:20:53,503
term. That's. What we're at the DSAB doing and how

3648
04:20:53,503 --> 04:20:55,463
we could support them is good. We don't need to

3649
04:20:55,463 --> 04:21:01,320
be creating redundancies where. We are. Giving that organization dollars

3650
04:21:01,320 --> 04:21:03,600
to do this work, and then we're just kind of

3651
04:21:03,600 --> 04:21:06,240
getting, we're just kind of like, muddying the waters. That

3652
04:21:06,240 --> 04:21:10,211
said, I do appreciate that. We do. Intersect. And have

3653
04:21:10,211 --> 04:21:15,338
cooperative relationship with the DSAB. But anyway, that's all I'm

3654
04:21:15,338 --> 04:21:17,498
going to say. I definitely support the resolution in this

3655
04:21:17,498 --> 04:21:23,265
moving forward. Thank you, Councilor Oliver. Thank you. I hope

3656
04:21:23,265 --> 04:21:29,166
you can hear me. We can. Okay, great. So just

3657
04:21:29,166 --> 04:21:32,006
a couple of things, like, sort of building on both

3658
04:21:32,006 --> 04:21:35,006
councilor Johnson and. Hamilton. We're just saying with regard to.

3659
04:21:36,425 --> 04:21:40,105
The education piece. I think that there's some value and

3660
04:21:40,105 --> 04:21:43,468
maybe even trying to explain to the community. What appellate

3661
04:21:43,468 --> 04:21:47,788
village looks like. And just to give that overall view

3662
04:21:47,788 --> 04:21:50,839
of what people could expect to see. With that type

3663
04:21:50,839 --> 04:21:54,476
of service delivery and program delivery. Because I think that

3664
04:21:54,476 --> 04:21:58,100
there's just this misconception of what it actually is. And

3665
04:21:58,100 --> 04:22:00,540
I don't think that the community has a full time

3666
04:22:00,540 --> 04:22:03,300
understanding of the benefit of that type of strategy in

3667
04:22:03,300 --> 04:22:06,380
terms of helping people that are currently unhoused. So that's.

3668
04:22:06,380 --> 04:22:07,860
Just one point that I wanted to make. And I

3669
04:22:07,860 --> 04:22:10,620
think the other thing is, too, when we're having our

3670
04:22:10,620 --> 04:22:14,300
conversations with the community and our constituents. I know that

3671
04:22:14,300 --> 04:22:18,350
they're looking at comparing us with other communities. Who often

3672
04:22:18,350 --> 04:22:21,350
have their own autonomy in terms of how their housing

3673
04:22:21,350 --> 04:22:24,430
programs are rolled out. And so we don't have that

3674
04:22:24,430 --> 04:22:27,870
same level autonomy here in Thunder Bay. Obviously, we're part

3675
04:22:27,870 --> 04:22:31,590
of the district Social Services Administration board. Who has the

3676
04:22:31,590 --> 04:22:35,432
mandate. To run and provide the leadership on this. But

3677
04:22:35,432 --> 04:22:38,512
I do see that we have a value. We do

3678
04:22:38,512 --> 04:22:41,712
bring value and opportunity to the table as well, too,

3679
04:22:41,712 --> 04:22:46,512
to bring that local lens to those conversations. And I

3680
04:22:46,512 --> 04:22:48,992
fully understand that we have six members of council who

3681
04:22:48,992 --> 04:22:51,592
do sit on the DSAT. Board, but I think it's

3682
04:22:51,592 --> 04:22:54,146
by extension that the community has. A lot to offer.

3683
04:22:55,406 --> 04:22:58,006
And I mentioned this last time, my last word meaning.

3684
04:22:59,927 --> 04:23:02,607
A fairly robust conversation and the encampments, and I would

3685
04:23:02,607 --> 04:23:07,607
say that everyone that was approaching this conversation had compassion,

3686
04:23:07,607 --> 04:23:12,412
empathy and certainly want to see. A better outcome for

3687
04:23:12,412 --> 04:23:17,900
people that are living it rough. And also recognizing the

3688
04:23:17,900 --> 04:23:21,180
comments made by one of our service delivery partners the

3689
04:23:21,180 --> 04:23:23,990
other day. That we're at least a year out from

3690
04:23:23,990 --> 04:23:29,029
seeing. Anything monumentous change in terms of having some transitional

3691
04:23:29,029 --> 04:23:31,989
housing or some affordable housing in place for people that

3692
04:23:31,989 --> 04:23:35,949
are currently experiencing a crisis. And I'm also cognizant of

3693
04:23:35,949 --> 04:23:38,029
the fact that there's been three home last month that

3694
04:23:38,029 --> 04:23:40,709
have passed away. So to me that seems like we

3695
04:23:40,709 --> 04:23:45,177
should be moving fairly quickly because. Obviously, we know we

3696
04:23:45,177 --> 04:23:47,257
have a huge issue here, but we don't want to

3697
04:23:47,257 --> 04:23:51,804
see more. Deaths as a result of an action. So,

3698
04:23:51,804 --> 04:23:54,444
taking that all into consideration, I do like this new

3699
04:23:54,444 --> 04:23:59,528
proposal. I think that. It helps build that flexibility. Looking

3700
04:23:59,528 --> 04:24:03,682
at what other communities are doing, how we can. Take

3701
04:24:03,682 --> 04:24:06,842
that as best practices and roll something out. But better

3702
04:24:06,842 --> 04:24:09,762
yet, I want to see us also. Implementing something where

3703
04:24:09,762 --> 04:24:13,403
we're the ones that are instituting some best practices. And

3704
04:24:13,403 --> 04:24:15,923
I am confident that administration does have their finger on

3705
04:24:15,923 --> 04:24:20,318
the pulse on this, and. We'll continue to leverage every

3706
04:24:20,318 --> 04:24:23,278
opportunity they can to build capacity and bring those recommendations

3707
04:24:23,278 --> 04:24:27,210
to council. So. I just wanted to take a minute

3708
04:24:27,210 --> 04:24:32,570
to express my appreciation for this new recommendation. Thank you.

3709
04:24:32,570 --> 04:24:37,160
Thank you. It's that time again. Thank you, chair. With

3710
04:24:37,160 --> 04:24:40,400
the hour being 11:00 that we continue with the business

3711
04:24:40,400 --> 04:24:46,316
of Han. Mover. Councilor Chung. Councilor Hamilton will second. All

3712
04:24:46,316 --> 04:24:52,805
in favor? Any opposed? Appears to be carried. So we'll

3713
04:24:52,805 --> 04:24:57,451
go to the next speaker as Councilor Gurtuga. Thank you,

3714
04:24:57,451 --> 04:25:04,673
Mr. Chair. So I guess now that what's left in

3715
04:25:04,673 --> 04:25:07,873
this resolution is that we have distance guidelines. That we

3716
04:25:07,873 --> 04:25:11,669
can enforce and that we're going to lobby. The other

3717
04:25:11,669 --> 04:25:13,709
orders of government, right. Is that pretty much all that's

3718
04:25:13,709 --> 04:25:16,869
left in this now? That we took out the vicount

3719
04:25:16,869 --> 04:25:25,728
lot. Chair through you to clarify. What has been proposed,

3720
04:25:25,728 --> 04:25:30,615
moved and seconded is adding to paragraph one subject. To

3721
04:25:30,615 --> 04:25:34,015
ongoing review, which again would be the district distance guidelines

3722
04:25:34,015 --> 04:25:38,535
outlined in the report, removing paragraph two the lands municipally

3723
04:25:38,535 --> 04:25:42,495
known as the Vi count lots. And from paragraph three.

3724
04:25:44,232 --> 04:25:47,872
The reference to the Vi count lot, so the advocacy.

3725
04:25:47,872 --> 04:25:52,782
All of the other items remain. In the resolution. Okay.

3726
04:25:53,484 --> 04:25:54,564
Yeah. So the lobby of the government and the district

3727
04:25:54,564 --> 04:25:57,524
guidelines would be, can enforce. Okay, well, I will amend.

3728
04:25:59,422 --> 04:26:03,182
The distant guidelines for the homes. But I'll wait until

3729
04:26:03,182 --> 04:26:05,502
we ratify this because I want to hear from the

3730
04:26:05,502 --> 04:26:11,728
community via my own consultation that I'll do. But. Mark

3731
04:26:11,728 --> 04:26:13,528
my words. Next summer we'll be in the same position

3732
04:26:13,528 --> 04:26:16,808
with nothing changed, and I. Said it last year. I

3733
04:26:16,808 --> 04:26:20,528
tried to bring forward the notice of motion to reconsider

3734
04:26:20,528 --> 04:26:22,928
our human rights approach and make it a capacitate approach

3735
04:26:22,928 --> 04:26:26,740
back in January, but I was told I couldn't. As

3736
04:26:26,740 --> 04:26:29,220
I wasn't present for the vote, and it needs to

3737
04:26:29,220 --> 04:26:32,340
be someone who voted in. Favor of the human rights

3738
04:26:32,340 --> 04:26:35,180
approach to bring forward that notice of motion to reconsider.

3739
04:26:36,909 --> 04:26:39,589
So I guess. But I said last year we'll be

3740
04:26:39,589 --> 04:26:41,909
in the same position this year. And next year I

3741
04:26:41,909 --> 04:26:45,470
will be in the exact same position again. We have

3742
04:26:45,470 --> 04:26:49,825
people. In the cabinet saying that they're okay with. These

3743
04:26:49,825 --> 04:26:53,505
distance guidelines, but we haven't talked to the residents about

3744
04:26:53,505 --> 04:26:58,238
them. And people could say whatever they want. They could

3745
04:26:58,238 --> 04:27:00,358
go 10 meters, they can go 5 meters, and we

3746
04:27:00,358 --> 04:27:03,429
can force it so it doesn't matter. I'm not going

3747
04:27:03,429 --> 04:27:07,699
to support this. I'll try to change the distant guidelines

3748
04:27:07,699 --> 04:27:10,756
when it comes to ratification, but. I think we're just

3749
04:27:10,756 --> 04:27:14,648
spinning our wheels again. Once again, thank you. Okay. Thank

3750
04:27:14,648 --> 04:27:20,702
you, councilor. We've got Councilor Chung next. Thank you. Chair.

3751
04:27:20,702 --> 04:27:24,861
Chair. What I would like to know. Is that communication

3752
04:27:24,861 --> 04:27:28,261
with the public can be quite difficult. Even if citizens

3753
04:27:28,261 --> 04:27:31,701
do have access to the Internet and computers and houses.

3754
04:27:31,701 --> 04:27:35,301
The unhoused population might not necessarily have access to the

3755
04:27:35,301 --> 04:27:38,021
new guidelines. So what I'd like to know is how

3756
04:27:38,021 --> 04:27:41,661
the city will successfully communicate with the unhoused population as

3757
04:27:41,661 --> 04:27:43,621
to where they may be permitted to put up a

3758
04:27:43,621 --> 04:27:47,406
shelter. And the guidelines and so forth. So through the

3759
04:27:47,406 --> 04:27:52,162
chair. We would rely on our community partners at this

3760
04:27:52,162 --> 04:27:56,133
point in time. We are not directly doing work in

3761
04:27:56,133 --> 04:28:00,373
encampments. That being said, we have held focus groups and

3762
04:28:00,373 --> 04:28:03,733
we have outlined that we are committed to establishing an

3763
04:28:03,733 --> 04:28:06,533
advisory committee, and so we will work with the advisory

3764
04:28:06,533 --> 04:28:10,373
committee of people with experience in encampments on how best

3765
04:28:10,373 --> 04:28:15,104
to continue to communicate and. Share anything that's adopted this

3766
04:28:15,104 --> 04:28:17,824
evening, as well as any additional changes that may be

3767
04:28:17,824 --> 04:28:20,784
made. In the future. As far as guidelines go, thank

3768
04:28:20,784 --> 04:28:24,919
you for that. Analysts will and has further to add.

3769
04:28:24,919 --> 04:28:26,599
Yeah, thank you. Through the chair. I also just want

3770
04:28:26,599 --> 04:28:29,399
to point out the infographic attachment a that can be

3771
04:28:29,399 --> 04:28:31,479
distributed to people who are living in campbellments that's a

3772
04:28:31,479 --> 04:28:35,039
bit more digestible than just a bunch of bullet points.

3773
04:28:35,039 --> 04:28:39,079
Excellent. Thank you. My next question, chair, is that we

3774
04:28:39,079 --> 04:28:41,959
have in the past spent a considerable amount of time

3775
04:28:41,959 --> 04:28:45,506
and resource. Resources protecting McVicker Creek. And I understand, I

3776
04:28:45,506 --> 04:28:49,856
think that's part of the environmental protection zone. I'm sorry.

3777
04:28:49,856 --> 04:28:52,536
I can't find a map anywhere what this looks like.

3778
04:28:52,536 --> 04:28:56,776
So can you tell me what rivers are in this

3779
04:28:56,776 --> 04:29:00,456
environmental protection zone, and if there's going to be some

3780
04:29:00,456 --> 04:29:04,136
sort of mapped out area where sites are permitted, or

3781
04:29:04,136 --> 04:29:08,667
at least not permitted. So through the chair. There are

3782
04:29:08,667 --> 04:29:12,107
parts of McVicker Creek that are within the environmental protection

3783
04:29:12,107 --> 04:29:18,119
zone. There are other locations within the community that. Are

3784
04:29:18,119 --> 04:29:21,216
also within that zone. And so we will work with

3785
04:29:21,216 --> 04:29:25,336
the Lake Regional Conservation Authority, who provided that information and

3786
04:29:25,336 --> 04:29:28,256
provides it. To our mapping. At this point in time,

3787
04:29:28,256 --> 04:29:31,736
the mapping would be internal facing for us to really

3788
04:29:31,736 --> 04:29:34,296
be able to do the nuances, especially if we continue

3789
04:29:34,296 --> 04:29:38,581
to change and modify what the distance guidelines are. That

3790
04:29:38,581 --> 04:29:41,421
would be a continuous amount of work for administration to

3791
04:29:41,421 --> 04:29:47,377
continue. To update a public facing mapping that. Is better

3792
04:29:47,377 --> 04:29:51,718
situated for internal use and response. Okay, so I take

3793
04:29:51,718 --> 04:29:54,438
it that's going to come at some point? I would

3794
04:29:54,438 --> 04:29:57,684
just assume. That we would need to know. If people

3795
04:29:57,684 --> 04:30:00,844
are not allowed or permitted to set up an encampment

3796
04:30:00,844 --> 04:30:03,164
within the environmental protection zone, but I don't even know

3797
04:30:03,164 --> 04:30:05,284
where that is, to be totally honest. But you're? Saying

3798
04:30:05,284 --> 04:30:08,564
that's to come at some point in the future. So

3799
04:30:08,564 --> 04:30:10,484
through the chair, it is something that we can use

3800
04:30:10,484 --> 04:30:13,964
internally. So if something was identified, we have a general

3801
04:30:13,964 --> 04:30:16,204
sense of where those locations are right now based on

3802
04:30:16,204 --> 04:30:20,367
some preliminary mapping. And using our gis system. I will

3803
04:30:20,367 --> 04:30:24,558
share that. That's not my area of expertise, so. I'm

3804
04:30:24,558 --> 04:30:27,598
not the most positioned to fully respond to that. Our

3805
04:30:27,598 --> 04:30:31,494
intention was to actually use that internal facing. It's not

3806
04:30:31,494 --> 04:30:34,814
required for public to understand where people can or cannot

3807
04:30:34,814 --> 04:30:36,574
be. They can continue. To call in if they have

3808
04:30:36,574 --> 04:30:41,631
any concerns. Administration and our community partners will investigate and

3809
04:30:41,631 --> 04:30:45,431
make the determination if it falls within the guidelines that

3810
04:30:45,431 --> 04:30:50,111
we've established or that should counsel adopt these guidelines or

3811
04:30:50,111 --> 04:30:55,110
any future changes to guidelines, chair I guess. My concern

3812
04:30:55,110 --> 04:31:00,348
is. With someone. Sets up an encampment, a tented area,

3813
04:31:00,348 --> 04:31:02,868
and they're told it's an environmental protection area. They have

3814
04:31:02,868 --> 04:31:05,868
to move somewhere else, so they pack up their stuff,

3815
04:31:05,868 --> 04:31:09,108
often using just the tools of expediency around them. A

3816
04:31:09,108 --> 04:31:12,241
shopping cart or what have you. I've seen all kinds

3817
04:31:12,241 --> 04:31:17,241
of things. It's very difficult for people to move locations.

3818
04:31:17,241 --> 04:31:21,285
Only to find themselves set up. Maybe. In another environmental

3819
04:31:21,285 --> 04:31:23,325
protection, and then it goes on and on, causing more

3820
04:31:23,325 --> 04:31:27,816
stress and harm. I'm hoping that maybe the LRCA can

3821
04:31:27,816 --> 04:31:33,138
provide some guidance and some help. With tracking and all

3822
04:31:33,138 --> 04:31:35,578
the mapping stuff that I also have no clue what

3823
04:31:35,578 --> 04:31:38,769
that looks like. But I'm just concerned that we might

3824
04:31:38,769 --> 04:31:41,964
be making things more difficult for people. Or I could

3825
04:31:41,964 --> 04:31:45,364
also be misunderstanding this. I see a lot of chatter

3826
04:31:45,364 --> 04:31:51,747
over there. Thank you, Councilor Chung. So individuals found to

3827
04:31:51,747 --> 04:31:54,307
be in violation of the distance guidelines, should they be

3828
04:31:54,307 --> 04:31:58,187
adopted, would be subject to a planned relocation unless there

3829
04:31:58,187 --> 04:32:01,547
was imminent risk of injury, illness or death. And so

3830
04:32:01,547 --> 04:32:04,907
part of those planned relocations involves working with the individual

3831
04:32:04,907 --> 04:32:08,107
to identify a site that is compliant with those guidelines

3832
04:32:08,107 --> 04:32:11,827
and helping them situate themselves. There. So it would not

3833
04:32:11,827 --> 04:32:14,347
be a matter of grabbing a shopping cart and just

3834
04:32:14,347 --> 04:32:16,947
moving their stuff. To wherever they think they might be

3835
04:32:16,947 --> 04:32:19,147
compliant. They would be supported to find a location that

3836
04:32:19,147 --> 04:32:21,547
is compliant. Okay, I guess we can't be a little

3837
04:32:21,547 --> 04:32:31,453
more proactive on that front. Through the chair. That's part

3838
04:32:31,453 --> 04:32:34,813
of the guidelines or the relocation protocol that was part

3839
04:32:34,813 --> 04:32:38,733
of attachment b. I believe in your report, which really

3840
04:32:38,733 --> 04:32:46,492
demonstrates. The value of. Connection and relationship development, better understanding,

3841
04:32:46,492 --> 04:32:50,723
trust, and then you identify the locations and. We would

3842
04:32:50,723 --> 04:32:55,660
actually support individuals to move. To a suitable compliant location

3843
04:32:55,660 --> 04:32:59,100
that is within those guidelines. Should council adopt those this

3844
04:32:59,100 --> 04:33:06,956
evening? Awesome. Thank you. All right. We're going to councilor

3845
04:33:06,956 --> 04:33:12,321
Pascalino and then to councilor Agarwal. Thank you very much.

3846
04:33:12,321 --> 04:33:18,752
And through the chair. I'd like to speak a few

3847
04:33:18,752 --> 04:33:23,844
of my thoughts. On this report. I just want to

3848
04:33:23,844 --> 04:33:27,124
say that most of my career as a union president,

3849
04:33:27,124 --> 04:33:31,164
I've always tried to bring the two sides closer together,

3850
04:33:31,164 --> 04:33:37,116
where we can actually discuss things and become productive. I'm

3851
04:33:37,116 --> 04:33:41,312
finding that really difficult because. We have people that are

3852
04:33:41,312 --> 04:33:45,352
in the public that basically want the people that are

3853
04:33:45,352 --> 04:33:53,397
homeless kicked out. To the city limits. And they're quite

3854
04:33:53,397 --> 04:33:57,157
happy. Don't care about the person's well being at all.

3855
04:33:57,157 --> 04:34:01,037
And then there are other people that just care about

3856
04:34:01,037 --> 04:34:05,197
homeless people and not anybody else's. View. And I'm trying

3857
04:34:05,197 --> 04:34:08,717
to get something together. At least with a plant we

3858
04:34:08,717 --> 04:34:11,790
understood. That we needed to have work. So that the

3859
04:34:11,790 --> 04:34:14,750
plant can work, so we can make money. Because if

3860
04:34:14,750 --> 04:34:17,790
the employee made money, the company made money. At least

3861
04:34:17,790 --> 04:34:21,957
that was the goal. I don't know where we are

3862
04:34:21,957 --> 04:34:28,055
with it because. Like I said earlier. That Susan Lester

3863
04:34:28,055 --> 04:34:32,682
and her crew came on earlier. Last year when I

3864
04:34:32,682 --> 04:34:36,761
was just starting as a city counselor. I don't know

3865
04:34:36,761 --> 04:34:38,601
what we've done for her, really, up to this point.

3866
04:34:40,121 --> 04:34:45,189
This works a bit. Because the guidelines are there. That's

3867
04:34:45,189 --> 04:34:48,229
the first thing that I saw in this, and I

3868
04:34:48,229 --> 04:34:54,136
really, really like the guidelines. I don't agree. That. They're

3869
04:34:54,136 --> 04:34:59,000
far enough. I don't agree that there's nothing about being

3870
04:34:59,000 --> 04:35:03,506
away from a river. And I don't agree that it

3871
04:35:03,506 --> 04:35:05,466
doesn't say that you have to be away. From a

3872
04:35:05,466 --> 04:35:11,802
railway. I believe those are two big hazards. For. The

3873
04:35:11,802 --> 04:35:16,162
encampment people. And especially with our history of our city,

3874
04:35:16,162 --> 04:35:20,002
with so many people drowning. In the river, so I

3875
04:35:20,002 --> 04:35:23,783
really believe that that's an important thing. I was hoping

3876
04:35:23,783 --> 04:35:27,572
for 100 meters away from residents. And probably in business.

3877
04:35:29,470 --> 04:35:32,230
But maybe I'd be happy with 50. I don't know.

3878
04:35:33,687 --> 04:35:37,289
But. I think also I'm happy with this report that.

3879
04:35:39,071 --> 04:35:42,631
It doesn't agree because that was my initial thought when

3880
04:35:42,631 --> 04:35:46,231
we were talking at the time. At Susan Lester's time

3881
04:35:46,231 --> 04:35:48,791
is that. Well, we'll put up some sites and they

3882
04:35:48,791 --> 04:35:54,440
can all go there. And have a washroom, a shower

3883
04:35:54,440 --> 04:35:59,451
and a few other things. But. It's really not cost

3884
04:35:59,451 --> 04:36:04,011
prohibitive. It is cost prohibitive. It's like you're talking $2

3885
04:36:04,011 --> 04:36:10,276
million for the first year. It's almost $50,000 a person.

3886
04:36:10,276 --> 04:36:12,996
It's better maybe to give them that much money and

3887
04:36:12,996 --> 04:36:17,429
tell them to have a good time. Rather than to

3888
04:36:17,429 --> 04:36:19,669
do this. And I believe that because you're going to

3889
04:36:19,669 --> 04:36:25,514
have. Six or more sites. You're going to have a

3890
04:36:25,514 --> 04:36:31,405
lot of trouble with that as well. And let's face

3891
04:36:31,405 --> 04:36:34,805
it, I don't know whether that necessarily helps them with

3892
04:36:34,805 --> 04:36:38,485
this. I don't know whether any of this stuff helps.

3893
04:36:40,183 --> 04:36:43,516
People not to be in trouble. To the point of

3894
04:36:43,516 --> 04:36:49,223
where. They don't need to have some assistance for a

3895
04:36:49,223 --> 04:36:54,708
living. And I think it's really important that everybody understand

3896
04:36:54,708 --> 04:36:59,504
that. Everybody that is in an encampment isn't there for

3897
04:36:59,504 --> 04:37:01,744
the same reasons there are. Some people that are there

3898
04:37:01,744 --> 04:37:05,664
for drug addiction. There's people that are there because they

3899
04:37:05,664 --> 04:37:08,184
have mental health issues. There's some people that are under

3900
04:37:08,184 --> 04:37:12,743
severe financial stuff. And quite frankly, there are some people

3901
04:37:12,743 --> 04:37:15,583
that, and they say, well, why aren't they there? In

3902
04:37:15,583 --> 04:37:19,796
the winter. Well, there just might be. A young woman

3903
04:37:19,796 --> 04:37:23,553
who. Has been abused by somebody and says, I can

3904
04:37:23,553 --> 04:37:27,073
handle being abused when it's 40 below. Because there's no

3905
04:37:27,073 --> 04:37:31,993
other option, or that's their least damaging option. And then

3906
04:37:31,993 --> 04:37:34,819
when the weather warms up. They're going to go and

3907
04:37:34,819 --> 04:37:37,619
try and be in an encampment. I mean, all these

3908
04:37:37,619 --> 04:37:41,299
things are terrible. Okay? Drug addiction is terrible. Being abused

3909
04:37:41,299 --> 04:37:44,099
is terrible. Mental health is terrible. These are all the

3910
04:37:44,099 --> 04:37:46,579
things that we have. So I'm trying to figure out

3911
04:37:46,579 --> 04:37:51,050
to get to the two sides together. I really do

3912
04:37:51,050 --> 04:37:55,936
believe that. It is not. We don't have the ability

3913
04:37:55,936 --> 04:37:59,016
nor the responsibility to do it. As a city, this

3914
04:37:59,016 --> 04:38:01,976
is a provincial and a federal thing more than anything

3915
04:38:01,976 --> 04:38:05,296
else. And I believe that the advocacy part of this

3916
04:38:05,296 --> 04:38:08,656
is probably the most important part of this because we

3917
04:38:08,656 --> 04:38:12,216
need some action. It's up. To the well, I'll just

3918
04:38:12,216 --> 04:38:20,507
use the province. For an example. The province. Does the

3919
04:38:20,507 --> 04:38:23,387
health care. So when somebody goes to hospital, the province

3920
04:38:23,387 --> 04:38:28,347
pays. When somebody goes and needs mental health. The province

3921
04:38:28,347 --> 04:38:31,387
pays. The province is the one that deals with the

3922
04:38:31,387 --> 04:38:34,187
housing and the province. Is also the one that deals.

3923
04:38:37,499 --> 04:38:39,859
With the legal or the federal government probably does with

3924
04:38:39,859 --> 04:38:42,699
that too, is talking about terms for people that have

3925
04:38:42,699 --> 04:38:45,739
gone to prison and all of that. So I believe

3926
04:38:45,739 --> 04:38:50,297
the advocacy part is very much important. But when it

3927
04:38:50,297 --> 04:38:53,817
comes down to the city of Hamilton is the one

3928
04:38:53,817 --> 04:38:56,697
that they use the example on this. I see that

3929
04:38:56,697 --> 04:39:00,149
the city of Hamilton. I looked it up. Is less.

3930
04:39:01,823 --> 04:39:05,507
Than well we are. Twice as. Let me rephrase that.

3931
04:39:05,507 --> 04:39:09,187
The city of Hamilton is twice as dense. The population

3932
04:39:09,187 --> 04:39:14,140
is thunder bay. Actually, more than that, and. I think

3933
04:39:14,140 --> 04:39:17,460
that if we're using their guidelines, we should actually be

3934
04:39:17,460 --> 04:39:23,463
increasing them to be able. To. Keep it away from.

3935
04:39:25,841 --> 04:39:28,561
5 meters away from a sidewalk or trail. I don't

3936
04:39:28,561 --> 04:39:34,681
believe that. That's five. Steps. If somebody. Is going to

3937
04:39:34,681 --> 04:39:38,461
walk to a trail. And I know that there are

3938
04:39:38,461 --> 04:39:41,621
fact that there are people that are walking across the

3939
04:39:41,621 --> 04:39:44,421
street, so. That they're not by homeless encampments. There are

3940
04:39:44,421 --> 04:39:48,716
people that aren't walking. Away from. They're walking on those

3941
04:39:48,716 --> 04:39:51,396
trails. They're walking away from being on those trails because

3942
04:39:51,396 --> 04:39:56,734
of that. So I'm looking to increase these numbers. Of

3943
04:39:56,734 --> 04:40:03,108
distances. I'm looking for them. To be somehow enforced. But

3944
04:40:03,108 --> 04:40:05,908
I don't know whether we as a city have the

3945
04:40:05,908 --> 04:40:08,948
ability to do that at this time. So these are

3946
04:40:08,948 --> 04:40:16,787
my concerns with this. I really feel. Frustrated with this.

3947
04:40:16,787 --> 04:40:19,547
I feel that the sides are getting further and further

3948
04:40:19,547 --> 04:40:25,246
away. Quite frankly, if we don't. Deal with the drug

3949
04:40:25,246 --> 04:40:29,610
problem that is happening. In the city and in fact,

3950
04:40:29,610 --> 04:40:33,933
all over our nation. And the seeds of destruction are

3951
04:40:33,933 --> 04:40:38,718
there already. I'm hearing just outside of city hall, people

3952
04:40:38,718 --> 04:40:43,604
are being stabbed regularly with needles. Those aren't the cities

3953
04:40:43,604 --> 04:40:47,164
that people want to live in, too. So I'm really.

3954
04:40:47,164 --> 04:40:52,559
Hoping that. We can build on this. I don't want.

3955
04:40:53,874 --> 04:40:58,596
To just pass something that has no teeth. I want

3956
04:40:58,596 --> 04:41:03,504
to actually be able to measure our progress. And see

3957
04:41:03,504 --> 04:41:08,421
that we are actually doing something better. And if it's

3958
04:41:08,421 --> 04:41:12,941
not done by the province or by the federal government,

3959
04:41:12,941 --> 04:41:16,501
and if we did do a great job of settling

3960
04:41:16,501 --> 04:41:21,853
all the homeless people here. Well, really? Then they'll just

3961
04:41:21,853 --> 04:41:24,813
buy the bus ticket that's under bay to take. Care

3962
04:41:24,813 --> 04:41:28,293
of it so it may increase our homelessness. So those

3963
04:41:28,293 --> 04:41:32,807
are my thoughts on this. I don't know really the

3964
04:41:32,807 --> 04:41:36,932
best way of getting. To the goals of trying to

3965
04:41:36,932 --> 04:41:43,476
clean things up. Here I am having. My ward meeting

3966
04:41:43,476 --> 04:41:46,836
on Wednesday, so if somebody has some good ideas, this

3967
04:41:46,836 --> 04:41:50,756
thing is not going to be passed. It'll be brought

3968
04:41:50,756 --> 04:41:54,116
tonight, but it's going to be ratified at the next

3969
04:41:54,116 --> 04:41:59,500
meeting, so it's really important to speak. To the counselors

3970
04:41:59,500 --> 04:42:03,060
and come to ward meetings and try and give us

3971
04:42:03,060 --> 04:42:06,725
some advice. And if you just want to complain and

3972
04:42:06,725 --> 04:42:10,881
tell them all. You can be on both extremes. None

3973
04:42:10,881 --> 04:42:13,241
of those are going to work. I'm hoping that we

3974
04:42:13,241 --> 04:42:15,521
can get something in the middle and come up with

3975
04:42:15,521 --> 04:42:20,921
some advice that actually would work that's workable. There's some

3976
04:42:20,921 --> 04:42:26,521
solutions to. And so that. We can somehow be able

3977
04:42:26,521 --> 04:42:30,641
to go forward with this, but I'm very frustrated because

3978
04:42:30,641 --> 04:42:35,417
I believe that up until tonight. We've done nothing for

3979
04:42:35,417 --> 04:42:40,594
the McVicker Creek encampments. And haven't done much for any

3980
04:42:40,594 --> 04:42:45,606
of the other ones, and I really hope to. Prove,

3981
04:42:45,606 --> 04:42:50,602
councilor. Gretuga wrong and that actually things are going to

3982
04:42:50,602 --> 04:42:55,149
be better next year. But I don't understand the path

3983
04:42:55,149 --> 04:42:56,829
or know the path of what that's going. To be.

3984
04:42:56,829 --> 04:42:59,069
I'm hoping that this is going to be some of

3985
04:42:59,069 --> 04:43:04,717
it. But I can see lots of problems. But clearly

3986
04:43:04,717 --> 04:43:07,797
there's no simple solution to this problem. At all. So

3987
04:43:07,797 --> 04:43:10,437
thank you for letting me speak on this for a

3988
04:43:10,437 --> 04:43:14,292
while. But that's my thoughts on that. Thank you for

3989
04:43:14,292 --> 04:43:18,475
that. We'll go to councilor. Agarwal. Thank you very much.

3990
04:43:19,826 --> 04:43:22,226
There's one other issue in this report that I'm quite

3991
04:43:22,226 --> 04:43:26,556
concerned and councilor. Brought it forward. That no one on

3992
04:43:26,556 --> 04:43:29,476
the task force is indigenous. One of our top pillars

3993
04:43:29,476 --> 04:43:35,276
in our strategic plan. Is diversity, equity and inclusion, reconciliation.

3994
04:43:36,625 --> 04:43:38,985
And if we don't have an indigenous partner to speak

3995
04:43:38,985 --> 04:43:41,665
with to be at the table. On the task force.

3996
04:43:43,551 --> 04:43:50,419
It's challenging. We also heard today from administration that. The

3997
04:43:50,419 --> 04:43:54,095
only reason. Maybe we could get a response. Like you're

3998
04:43:54,095 --> 04:43:58,866
asking why there wasn't indigenous representation. I think it's been

3999
04:43:58,866 --> 04:44:01,946
asked. But you asked it again, so I think maybe

4000
04:44:01,946 --> 04:44:05,386
we will. Reiterate. So through the chair, I would caution

4001
04:44:05,386 --> 04:44:08,226
against making sweeping generalizations that nobody that's a part of

4002
04:44:08,226 --> 04:44:12,774
the task force is indigenous. And further to that, there

4003
04:44:12,774 --> 04:44:14,934
is a representative on the task force who is also

4004
04:44:14,934 --> 04:44:17,614
a part of the Outreach Workers Network and the Outreach

4005
04:44:17,614 --> 04:44:22,014
Workers Network has representation from indigenous organizations and the information

4006
04:44:22,014 --> 04:44:25,414
that's earned at that network is fed up through to

4007
04:44:25,414 --> 04:44:29,083
the task course, so we are. Hearing from some indigenous

4008
04:44:29,083 --> 04:44:33,363
organizations indirectly through the Outreach Workers Network. City manager Gill

4009
04:44:33,363 --> 04:44:36,123
yes, chair and further to that. The task force is

4010
04:44:36,123 --> 04:44:38,843
not a construct of the city of Thunder Bay. It

4011
04:44:38,843 --> 04:44:43,283
is a volunteer group of like minded individuals from organizations

4012
04:44:43,283 --> 04:44:45,763
that happens to be chaired by our own director, Cynthia

4013
04:44:45,763 --> 04:44:48,688
Olsen because of her talent. They selected. Her to tear

4014
04:44:48,688 --> 04:44:57,431
that task force. Thank you, chair. Councilor. Microphone, please. Thank

4015
04:44:57,431 --> 04:45:02,419
you for that, too. I thank you for that. However,

4016
04:45:02,419 --> 04:45:06,859
I think it's really important that we reach out even

4017
04:45:06,859 --> 04:45:09,539
to fort Williams first nation. That is our immediate abutting

4018
04:45:09,539 --> 04:45:15,662
neighbor. Ask them because we heard earlier today. That the

4019
04:45:15,662 --> 04:45:19,102
information goes out to the members of the task force

4020
04:45:19,102 --> 04:45:23,587
only. And then somehow, by default, it's going to reach

4021
04:45:23,587 --> 04:45:26,987
through one or two of the representatives. Into the indigenous

4022
04:45:26,987 --> 04:45:30,547
organizations. We need them at the same table, and we

4023
04:45:30,547 --> 04:45:34,464
should have them. There. If we reach out. Counselor, the

4024
04:45:34,464 --> 04:45:40,777
task force isn't our responsibility. It's a group. As city

4025
04:45:40,777 --> 04:45:46,356
manager Gail said, like minded individuals. Which. City official Olsen

4026
04:45:46,356 --> 04:45:50,071
house. I only believe like minded individuals. Would be our

4027
04:45:50,071 --> 04:45:53,271
indigenous partners as well. Right. And I think that message

4028
04:45:53,271 --> 04:45:56,481
has been delivered. We need to sit as a council

4029
04:45:56,481 --> 04:46:01,321
and demonstrate clearly and show clearly that we're all together.

4030
04:46:02,797 --> 04:46:05,637
No, we don't control the task force. City manager Gail

4031
04:46:05,637 --> 04:46:09,597
chair. It's not council's. Call. It's not administration's call. It's

4032
04:46:09,597 --> 04:46:13,001
not the city of Thunder Bay. But your point is

4033
04:46:13,001 --> 04:46:16,841
well taken. You want indigenous representation on all sorts of

4034
04:46:16,841 --> 04:46:22,547
committees, I think. That has been. Heard. I'm sorry. I

4035
04:46:22,547 --> 04:46:25,587
just need one point of clarification. City manager Gill just.

4036
04:46:25,587 --> 04:46:28,627
Mentioned that it's not counsel, not administration, not the city

4037
04:46:28,627 --> 04:46:32,713
of Thunder Bay. Then why is there a task force?

4038
04:46:34,335 --> 04:46:40,967
Responsibility. Chair. The task force arose from Covid-19 the vulnerable

4039
04:46:40,967 --> 04:46:44,847
populations table it exists because it's a combination of efforts

4040
04:46:44,847 --> 04:46:47,287
by agencies and like minded people to do some good

4041
04:46:47,287 --> 04:46:49,647
work. This is not a construct of the city of

4042
04:46:49,647 --> 04:46:53,428
Thunder Bay. No. I think it should be amended, but

4043
04:46:53,428 --> 04:46:58,910
that's beyond the point. If we're not going to be

4044
04:46:58,910 --> 04:47:01,550
able to change it. My voice has been heard. I

4045
04:47:01,550 --> 04:47:05,500
think it's very important. And we've all talked about last

4046
04:47:05,500 --> 04:47:07,740
week we heard that we haven't had a meeting with

4047
04:47:07,740 --> 04:47:11,300
the indigenous relations in about a year. The committee hasn't

4048
04:47:11,300 --> 04:47:13,500
sat together for about a year. It's very important we

4049
04:47:13,500 --> 04:47:19,866
do this. I'm a bit challenged on this. But just

4050
04:47:19,866 --> 04:47:21,906
to move it forward so we do something so we

4051
04:47:21,906 --> 04:47:25,593
have something to work with. I'm going to support this

4052
04:47:25,593 --> 04:47:31,299
very hesitant, with great reservations. There's a lot of empty

4053
04:47:31,299 --> 04:47:35,420
housing that we have as well at DSAP. That we

4054
04:47:35,420 --> 04:47:41,623
don't see what's happening with those empty units. It's concerning.

4055
04:47:41,623 --> 04:47:46,786
Did you want information regarding that? Because I thought. That

4056
04:47:46,786 --> 04:47:50,465
was suggested. We speak about that out here. Wasn't it?

4057
04:47:50,465 --> 04:47:53,465
Yeah, because you asked the question in Canada. I did.

4058
04:47:53,465 --> 04:47:57,065
There's like. 60 empty units sitting on Court street that

4059
04:47:57,065 --> 04:47:59,785
are owned by DSAP that have been vacant. They were

4060
04:47:59,785 --> 04:48:04,505
used during Covid-19 to house people, to separate them, and

4061
04:48:04,505 --> 04:48:08,280
they've been vacant. For almost five years or four years

4062
04:48:08,280 --> 04:48:14,549
now. We'll put that question. To councilor Hamilton, who chairs

4063
04:48:14,549 --> 04:48:17,669
the DSAB. I think he's prepared to respond. Thank you

4064
04:48:17,669 --> 04:48:19,829
chair for an opportunity to respond, and I'm not going

4065
04:48:19,829 --> 04:48:22,989
to get into the details. This is DSAT business. Councilor

4066
04:48:22,989 --> 04:48:27,349
Agarwal did pose that question to myself, to our CEO.

4067
04:48:27,349 --> 04:48:30,589
She was provided a response, and if she's not satisfied

4068
04:48:30,589 --> 04:48:34,739
with that response, I really don't know what to say,

4069
04:48:34,739 --> 04:48:38,019
but we have plans for that particular site and. The

4070
04:48:38,019 --> 04:48:43,049
details of which are not yet public. But. To kind

4071
04:48:43,049 --> 04:48:48,586
of insinuate. That. Somehow the organization is sitting on how

4072
04:48:48,586 --> 04:48:54,447
empty houses. Is wrong. But anyway, that question has been

4073
04:48:54,447 --> 04:48:57,087
asked, and it's already been answered by our leadership. Thank

4074
04:48:57,087 --> 04:49:01,472
you. I want to just comment on that. The question

4075
04:49:01,472 --> 04:49:06,536
was asked. We're talking about the report. Right, the city

4076
04:49:06,536 --> 04:49:09,416
council report. And I don't think we should be commenting

4077
04:49:09,416 --> 04:49:13,793
on DSOP. I think that now is the time to

4078
04:49:13,793 --> 04:49:17,521
question the report. And to give your opinions on the

4079
04:49:17,521 --> 04:49:20,721
report. We're talking about housing. Housing that we say we

4080
04:49:20,721 --> 04:49:24,041
don't have sufficient housing. Well, we're talking about a strategy.

4081
04:49:25,830 --> 04:49:28,710
We talk about dsab running it? Dsab is at the

4082
04:49:28,710 --> 04:49:33,082
table. We have the housing, and if we're not filling

4083
04:49:33,082 --> 04:49:35,522
empty spots or bringing them forward, saying, we have to

4084
04:49:35,522 --> 04:49:38,919
fix them or we're selling them or doing whatever. People

4085
04:49:38,919 --> 04:49:41,439
out there know there's empty spots, and we have people

4086
04:49:41,439 --> 04:49:45,559
living in substandard conditions right now in our community. That's

4087
04:49:45,559 --> 04:49:50,382
the concern here at our table. You're basically suggesting that

4088
04:49:50,382 --> 04:49:55,517
the d sub. No, I'm not suggesting. That's what I'm

4089
04:49:55,517 --> 04:49:57,837
hearing. No, I'm not suggesting your question has been. Asked

4090
04:49:57,837 --> 04:50:00,914
and answered. I think we should move off of the

4091
04:50:00,914 --> 04:50:04,350
topic and get back to our report. And you can

4092
04:50:04,350 --> 04:50:06,750
follow up with d sub tomorrow. I was given an

4093
04:50:06,750 --> 04:50:10,879
answer. That wasn't. I'll share that answer. Yes, share it.

4094
04:50:12,359 --> 04:50:14,919
But I don't think this is the forum to make

4095
04:50:14,919 --> 04:50:21,837
those types of comments. Well, we just need to know

4096
04:50:21,837 --> 04:50:25,518
what we have and what we're not using. Thank you,

4097
04:50:25,518 --> 04:50:29,646
chair. On a point of order, yes. To make comments.

4098
04:50:33,496 --> 04:50:35,456
That have just been. The facts have just been given.

4099
04:50:37,088 --> 04:50:41,137
Is disingenuous to this community because. We have many, many

4100
04:50:41,137 --> 04:50:45,417
organizations working to address this problem. And Councilor Aguwal, I

4101
04:50:45,417 --> 04:50:49,977
think you do disservice to the DSOB by insinuating that

4102
04:50:49,977 --> 04:50:53,137
they're not looking for the highest and best use of

4103
04:50:53,137 --> 04:50:57,186
that property as soon as possible. So I think that

4104
04:50:57,186 --> 04:51:00,826
would be a fair way to say that we're trying

4105
04:51:00,826 --> 04:51:02,426
to do as much as we can. We have a

4106
04:51:02,426 --> 04:51:07,837
task force. And in fact, this council and its administration

4107
04:51:07,837 --> 04:51:13,040
have been working extraordinarily hard along with other organizations. I

4108
04:51:13,040 --> 04:51:18,074
think perhaps you want to temper that. We'll move on

4109
04:51:18,074 --> 04:51:23,154
to Councilor Zuzino. Thank you. Chair, just one quick question.

4110
04:51:24,804 --> 04:51:28,884
With this distance guideline, what would happen with the encampment

4111
04:51:28,884 --> 04:51:32,964
at Freedom park relative to Franco superior school. I went

4112
04:51:32,964 --> 04:51:35,924
on Google Maps today, and I just kind of roughly

4113
04:51:35,924 --> 04:51:38,964
as the crow flies. Would that have to be moved?

4114
04:51:40,674 --> 04:51:43,852
Just curiosity. Through the chair at this time. I thought

4115
04:51:43,852 --> 04:51:46,772
we weren't speaking of a very specific locations.

4116
04:51:55,783 --> 04:51:58,983
It appears that there's consensus around the table. We not

4117
04:51:58,983 --> 04:52:04,660
speak to specific areas due to. Potential risks. Of those

4118
04:52:04,660 --> 04:52:09,306
types of conversations in public. And point of privilege here.

4119
04:52:09,306 --> 04:52:14,164
Yes. Thank you for recognizing. It's 1130. And I'm not

4120
04:52:14,164 --> 04:52:16,404
saying, hey, we can't do business. This is literally the

4121
04:52:16,404 --> 04:52:20,060
first item. The first item in our agenda. We still

4122
04:52:20,060 --> 04:52:22,620
have city council. Council? Point of privilege. Well, my point.

4123
04:52:22,620 --> 04:52:25,660
Of privilege is. This is just getting. I'd like counselors

4124
04:52:25,660 --> 04:52:28,940
to maybe be a little. More cognizant of time, myself

4125
04:52:28,940 --> 04:52:31,460
included. Chair, that's not a point of privilege. Point of

4126
04:52:31,460 --> 04:52:34,751
privilege is when you feel. Others have been offended by

4127
04:52:34,751 --> 04:52:37,471
comments, and that is a point. What's that? I feel

4128
04:52:37,471 --> 04:52:47,200
you haunt and bothered. Join the club. Okay. So not

4129
04:52:47,200 --> 04:52:50,280
everyone has spoken. Are you wanting to call the question?

4130
04:52:50,280 --> 04:52:54,941
Okay. Well, I haven't spoken all night, so I've got

4131
04:52:54,941 --> 04:53:02,571
a couple of questions. If you'll allow me. Yeah, exactly.

4132
04:53:04,714 --> 04:53:12,278
Okay, I'll make these quick. Given the governance realities, should

4133
04:53:12,278 --> 04:53:15,958
Thunderbay be getting into pallet homes or is that DSAB?

4134
04:53:17,552 --> 04:53:22,112
They have access to funding and lobbying efforts and partnerships.

4135
04:53:22,112 --> 04:53:24,632
So through the chair, our recommendation was never for us

4136
04:53:24,632 --> 04:53:27,392
to get into that business. That was very clear in

4137
04:53:27,392 --> 04:53:30,992
the recommendation that it would be externally operated that we

4138
04:53:30,992 --> 04:53:35,121
potentially could provide land. That would be suitable, that would

4139
04:53:35,121 --> 04:53:41,138
meet planning and zoning requirements. And that external funding be

4140
04:53:41,138 --> 04:53:45,479
sourced in order to implement a pilot project. I appreciate

4141
04:53:45,479 --> 04:53:50,296
that, but our involvement was at arm's length. And what

4142
04:53:50,296 --> 04:53:54,495
I'm suggesting. Should we leave it to the housing authority

4143
04:53:54,495 --> 04:53:59,139
to create housing? Through the chair council directed us to

4144
04:53:59,139 --> 04:54:02,939
bring back recommendations, including sanctioned sites, and so we felt.

4145
04:54:05,175 --> 04:54:08,735
That a pilot of a pallet shelter was the better

4146
04:54:08,735 --> 04:54:12,855
of the options since we are actually recommending against sanctioned

4147
04:54:12,855 --> 04:54:17,175
sites in the general sense and way other communities have

4148
04:54:17,175 --> 04:54:22,801
done them other than potential pilot. Of cabin like structures.

4149
04:54:24,263 --> 04:54:28,878
That are well supported. Would have staffing requirements. And met

4150
04:54:28,878 --> 04:54:33,085
some of the other. Questions that council wanted to see.

4151
04:54:35,397 --> 04:54:39,837
Should sanction sites be approved? Things like power, water, access

4152
04:54:39,837 --> 04:54:45,555
to laundry. Wifi, all of those types of things. Chair.

4153
04:54:45,555 --> 04:54:48,915
May I add that we're here tonight because of a

4154
04:54:48,915 --> 04:54:52,555
series of decisions by council. Those decisions made in good

4155
04:54:52,555 --> 04:54:55,395
faith by council in an effort to make the situation

4156
04:54:55,395 --> 04:54:57,555
better in an effort to make the community better. In

4157
04:54:57,555 --> 04:55:00,475
fact, chair, you are one of the leaders that was

4158
04:55:00,475 --> 04:55:04,600
pushing for this. And the direct answer, in my view,

4159
04:55:04,600 --> 04:55:07,638
and my advice to you is that housing. Is absolutely

4160
04:55:07,638 --> 04:55:10,158
the responsibility of the DSAB and the city should not

4161
04:55:10,158 --> 04:55:13,871
venture into that to any degree. That's what I was

4162
04:55:13,871 --> 04:55:17,831
leaning from the reports and commentary, although I appreciate that

4163
04:55:17,831 --> 04:55:21,631
you are tasked with coming back with recommendations, and that's

4164
04:55:21,631 --> 04:55:24,631
why we're seeing it and that's still to come. By

4165
04:55:24,631 --> 04:55:30,184
the sounds of this amended recommendation, The human rights approach

4166
04:55:30,184 --> 04:55:34,557
is coming up. And there's some claims that had we

4167
04:55:34,557 --> 04:55:37,157
not gone with the human rights approach, we would have

4168
04:55:37,157 --> 04:55:41,515
been able to enforce. Is that a correct assumption given.

4169
04:55:43,468 --> 04:55:47,455
The laws that. Have been coming out of these judgments.

4170
04:55:49,083 --> 04:55:53,144
In other communities. Through the chair would not make a

4171
04:55:53,144 --> 04:55:58,105
difference. The laws in the communities as have been recently

4172
04:55:58,105 --> 04:56:05,016
established. With other precedent court cases. Really dictate. No forced

4173
04:56:05,016 --> 04:56:11,423
evictions. Just calling it a human rights based approach. Or

4174
04:56:11,423 --> 04:56:14,703
not doesn't preclude us from not actually doing what is

4175
04:56:14,703 --> 04:56:19,073
lawful in our community. So even if this council wished

4176
04:56:19,073 --> 04:56:25,109
to direct you, To enforce evictions based on these new

4177
04:56:25,109 --> 04:56:29,589
guidelines. You could not, given that it's contrary to law.

4178
04:56:29,589 --> 04:56:35,766
Is that correct? Correct. Chair, we would view that as

4179
04:56:35,766 --> 04:56:41,082
unlawful direction. We would not comply. That's a really important

4180
04:56:41,082 --> 04:56:44,282
facet for the community to understand. I mean, we've got

4181
04:56:44,282 --> 04:56:47,082
a report in front of us that is a step

4182
04:56:47,082 --> 04:56:54,188
towards helping people in uncharted. Waters. The legal precedents are

4183
04:56:54,188 --> 04:56:57,686
still being set. We don't know where it's going to

4184
04:56:57,686 --> 04:57:01,006
end up, but we're taking the steps that we believe

4185
04:57:01,006 --> 04:57:04,974
that will help people. And all our residents in the

4186
04:57:04,974 --> 04:57:10,119
city. These setbacks. Are a way for us to communicate

4187
04:57:10,119 --> 04:57:16,722
with people. About. What people in the community have agreed

4188
04:57:16,722 --> 04:57:22,182
to. The people. In the encampments have agreed to these.

4189
04:57:22,182 --> 04:57:27,199
Hopefully, it will also help business owners and residents. We

4190
04:57:27,199 --> 04:57:33,202
can have constructive conversations. With people. That are in this

4191
04:57:33,202 --> 04:57:35,642
predicament that none of us would want to be in.

4192
04:57:37,740 --> 04:57:42,063
So. It's easy to. Not be empathetic because you're angry

4193
04:57:42,063 --> 04:57:45,303
about something. But we have to be, empathetic. We have

4194
04:57:45,303 --> 04:57:48,303
to work towards a solution. And I think the Waterloo

4195
04:57:48,303 --> 04:57:57,392
decision. Was based. On. Look, Canada, you're a wealthy nation.

4196
04:57:57,392 --> 04:58:00,872
Why don't you have enough supportive hosting? For people. And

4197
04:58:00,872 --> 04:58:06,617
until you do, They're going to be able. To. Seek

4198
04:58:06,617 --> 04:58:11,511
shelter. And it's protected by the charter. So this is

4199
04:58:11,511 --> 04:58:14,871
a much more complicated issue than we all hoped it

4200
04:58:14,871 --> 04:58:18,982
would be. It's due to legal precedents that are being

4201
04:58:18,982 --> 04:58:22,216
set in Ontario we have to follow. Them. We're coming

4202
04:58:22,216 --> 04:58:25,611
up with a plan that we feel. Is going to

4203
04:58:25,611 --> 04:58:29,749
make things better, although. It's a work in progress. I

4204
04:58:29,749 --> 04:58:32,069
think we can all agree to that, but for anyone.

4205
04:58:32,069 --> 04:58:40,717
In the community that thinks that. These setback limits. Are

4206
04:58:40,717 --> 04:58:45,385
the answer. We can't enforce them. They are a tool

4207
04:58:45,385 --> 04:58:48,865
which we can use to help people get to the

4208
04:58:48,865 --> 04:58:51,705
places that are good. For them and good for the

4209
04:58:51,705 --> 04:58:58,438
community. But it's a collaborative effort. I know many of

4210
04:58:58,438 --> 04:59:02,177
you out there would like enforcement. It's just not possible.

4211
04:59:03,665 --> 04:59:07,625
With the framework that we are operating under. So with

4212
04:59:07,625 --> 04:59:10,585
that, I will be supporting this, and thank you everyone,

4213
04:59:10,585 --> 04:59:15,580
for your time. Any other speakers. Councilor Hamilton. I know

4214
04:59:15,580 --> 04:59:17,580
after what I said, but I just wanted to just

4215
04:59:17,580 --> 04:59:22,096
share. Hey, enough. Of that in the gallery. You said

4216
04:59:22,096 --> 04:59:24,496
something that was important, and I think, if anything, I'd

4217
04:59:24,496 --> 04:59:26,936
like to close with. This. You said something about empathy

4218
04:59:26,936 --> 04:59:29,456
and compassion, and that's good that we have that and.

4219
04:59:29,456 --> 04:59:31,176
I plead for a little bit of patience, and in

4220
04:59:31,176 --> 04:59:35,296
the meantime, organizations are working tirelessly behind the scenes to

4221
04:59:35,296 --> 04:59:37,976
build capacity in the system for housing. So even though

4222
04:59:37,976 --> 04:59:41,959
it doesn't look like. We're that further ahead. We are.

4223
04:59:41,959 --> 04:59:44,359
And capacity is building in the system to support these

4224
04:59:44,359 --> 04:59:47,959
individuals. So the work is ongoing. Thank you. Okay. With

4225
04:59:47,959 --> 04:59:51,839
that, we will call the question. Everyone understand? The amended

4226
04:59:51,839 --> 04:59:55,994
motion. Can you have it read out again, please? Certainly.

4227
04:59:58,422 --> 05:00:05,117
So chair through you. It is paragraph one, adding. The

4228
05:00:05,117 --> 05:00:08,437
wording and subject to ongoing review. So that, again, that's

4229
05:00:08,437 --> 05:00:14,689
adopting the distance guidelines. Subject to ongoing review. Removing paragraph

4230
05:00:14,689 --> 05:00:16,969
two, the Lands municipally known as the vi count lot.

4231
05:00:18,723 --> 05:00:21,523
And in paragraph three, removing the reference to the by

4232
05:00:21,523 --> 05:00:24,483
count lot, everything else remains. That is the amendment that

4233
05:00:24,483 --> 05:00:28,272
is on the floor. All good. Okay, we'll call the

4234
05:00:28,272 --> 05:00:36,395
question. All in favor? Opposed. That is carried.

4235
05:00:38,637 --> 05:00:43,761
Next item, please. So, chair. Yeah. That's an amendment. That's

4236
05:00:43,761 --> 05:00:47,801
an amendment. Yes, on the amended motion. As amended, please.

4237
05:00:47,801 --> 05:00:50,961
So the next item would be the motion, as amended.

4238
05:00:50,961 --> 05:00:58,880
Is that correct? All those in favor. Any opposed? That

4239
05:00:58,880 --> 05:01:07,833
too is carried. Mr. Chair recorders appoint. Okay. As opposed.

4240
05:01:11,426 --> 05:01:17,479
Julie. Noted. Thank you, chair. So now, because it's late

4241
05:01:17,479 --> 05:01:19,439
and I know you're all paying attention, we're. Going to

4242
05:01:19,439 --> 05:01:22,679
go back in the agenda from where we started before

4243
05:01:22,679 --> 05:01:27,087
we change the order of the agenda. To. Following the

4244
05:01:27,087 --> 05:01:30,607
deputations, which was 5.1, we are going to item number

4245
05:01:30,607 --> 05:01:35,587
six. Which is items rising from closed session. So, continuing

4246
05:01:35,587 --> 05:01:38,507
on with our agenda. So the first item arising from

4247
05:01:38,507 --> 05:01:41,867
closed session is committee and board. Appointments, Community Economic Development

4248
05:01:41,867 --> 05:01:45,067
Commission. You received a memorandum from my office dated June

4249
05:01:45,067 --> 05:01:49,627
3 relative to the appointment of two individuals to the

4250
05:01:49,627 --> 05:01:53,547
CEDC. That's Eric Tribe and David Bruno. Council requires a

4251
05:01:53,547 --> 05:01:56,513
mover and a second. Or please. Councilor Hamilton will move.

4252
05:01:56,513 --> 05:02:01,980
Councilor. Or Mayor Boschkoff will second. All in favor? Any

4253
05:02:01,980 --> 05:02:05,660
opposed? That's carried. Thank you. I do want to note

4254
05:02:05,660 --> 05:02:08,180
that there are two terms. Of four years and that

4255
05:02:08,180 --> 05:02:10,860
this item is scheduled for ratification and will require two

4256
05:02:10,860 --> 05:02:15,913
thirds vote, you do have a series of minutes. Accessibility,

4257
05:02:15,913 --> 05:02:20,513
antiracism, clean, green, and beautiful. Coordinating committee, Heritage advisory, Intergov

4258
05:02:20,513 --> 05:02:23,193
and Thunder Bay Police Services Board. All of those are

4259
05:02:23,193 --> 05:02:26,233
provided for information. Chair questions on any of the minutes.

4260
05:02:28,324 --> 05:02:31,484
Councilor Hamilton. Yeah. Just one on the IGA minutes. The

4261
05:02:31,484 --> 05:02:35,404
items for advocacy, I believe at Amo. Is that the

4262
05:02:35,404 --> 05:02:38,044
finalized list? And I believe it was from, like, may

4263
05:02:38,044 --> 05:02:42,993
minutes, and I'm glad chair Oliver is here. It was

4264
05:02:42,993 --> 05:02:46,654
in the minutes. Under the advocacy items. I think there

4265
05:02:46,654 --> 05:02:50,524
were six or seven items in there. Yeah. Those were

4266
05:02:50,524 --> 05:02:54,884
the items that were being brought forward to the Amel

4267
05:02:54,884 --> 05:02:57,604
conference, recognizing that there was still an opportunity for a

4268
05:02:57,604 --> 05:03:00,084
number of other discussions that we had at the Roma

4269
05:03:00,084 --> 05:03:04,524
conference. This past January. So we tried to identify our

4270
05:03:04,524 --> 05:03:10,821
best effort. To. Engage the ministers, knowing full well that

4271
05:03:10,821 --> 05:03:14,021
we'll likely be able to get those meetings, so. Those

4272
05:03:14,021 --> 05:03:16,461
are the items that were put forth for the August

4273
05:03:16,461 --> 05:03:22,081
conference. Okay, excellent. Thank you. Further questions. I had one

4274
05:03:22,081 --> 05:03:25,441
on the police services board. I was wondering if police

4275
05:03:25,441 --> 05:03:29,001
services board members or maybe. The admin could update us

4276
05:03:29,001 --> 05:03:33,113
on the police campus. In terms of timelines and or

4277
05:03:33,113 --> 05:03:38,053
revised cost estimates. Chair. I have no update to give

4278
05:03:38,053 --> 05:03:41,373
on either. I can tell you that work will proceed

4279
05:03:41,373 --> 05:03:44,453
in earnest once there's an agreed two memorandum of understanding

4280
05:03:44,453 --> 05:03:47,093
between the corporation, the city of Thunderbay. And the Thunderbay

4281
05:03:47,093 --> 05:03:51,276
Police Services Board. And that memorandum understanding is being worked

4282
05:03:51,276 --> 05:03:53,716
on. Now. Once that's finalized, then the next steps will

4283
05:03:53,716 --> 05:03:57,116
be taken. We don't have any confirmation of costs or

4284
05:03:57,116 --> 05:04:01,869
timelines at this time. Okay. Thank you. So we'll go

4285
05:04:01,869 --> 05:04:04,229
on to the next item. Thank you, chair. The next

4286
05:04:04,229 --> 05:04:07,349
item under reports. Of municipal officers is investment of municipal

4287
05:04:07,349 --> 05:04:11,909
funds and investment policy statement. Update report number 149 2024.

4288
05:04:13,795 --> 05:04:16,755
Office of City Treasurer provides a recommendation relative to the

4289
05:04:16,755 --> 05:04:19,715
approval of investment policy statement as appended to this report

4290
05:04:19,715 --> 05:04:22,915
for council's consideration. Council requires a mover in a second

4291
05:04:22,915 --> 05:04:28,155
or, please. Move by Councilor Chung. Second by councilor Zazino

4292
05:04:28,155 --> 05:04:31,788
on the floor. I believe that Treasurer grieves did want

4293
05:04:31,788 --> 05:04:41,662
to provide some introductory comments. Chair. So through

4294
05:04:41,662 --> 05:04:45,876
the chair. There are two reasons for this report. One,

4295
05:04:45,876 --> 05:04:49,716
to present the results of the 2023 investment activities for

4296
05:04:49,716 --> 05:04:53,636
the city, and two, to approve the amended investment policy

4297
05:04:53,636 --> 05:04:57,708
statement. The investment policy statement. Review is a requirement, and

4298
05:04:57,708 --> 05:05:02,948
it's through this policy that council exercises. Its fiduciary responsibilities

4299
05:05:02,948 --> 05:05:07,872
over the city's investments. There are no significant changes being

4300
05:05:07,872 --> 05:05:11,272
recommended in the investment policy statement. And as for the

4301
05:05:11,272 --> 05:05:15,032
2023 performance. The plan performed exceptionally well, with money not

4302
05:05:15,032 --> 05:05:21,552
required immediately returning 10.9% in 2023. And money required immediately

4303
05:05:21,552 --> 05:05:30,813
returning 5.2%. Good returns. Any questions? Okay, we'll go to

4304
05:05:30,813 --> 05:05:38,740
the vote. All in favor? Any opposed? That is carried.

4305
05:05:40,369 --> 05:05:43,489
Thank you, chair. The next item is 2025. Budget calendar

4306
05:05:43,489 --> 05:05:46,689
report number two. Two seven. 2024. Corporate Services Office of

4307
05:05:46,689 --> 05:05:50,449
City Treasurer recommends the proposed 2025 budget calendar and the

4308
05:05:50,449 --> 05:05:57,290
associated timelines mover in a seconder is required. Move by

4309
05:05:57,290 --> 05:06:02,410
councilor Trini, second by Mayor Boschkoff again. I believe that

4310
05:06:02,410 --> 05:06:07,426
treasure agrees. Interested? In providing. Pardon me. The treasurer grieves

4311
05:06:07,426 --> 05:06:09,706
is interested in some introductory comments here on the budget

4312
05:06:09,706 --> 05:06:16,600
as well. So, again, thank you. Through the chair. Might

4313
05:06:16,600 --> 05:06:19,040
be a few minutes longer than from this one, so.

4314
05:06:19,040 --> 05:06:23,360
The bunch of calendar as presented is consistent with recent

4315
05:06:23,360 --> 05:06:26,160
budget eras with the Committee of the whole debating the

4316
05:06:26,160 --> 05:06:29,606
budget starting at the end of January. Four sessions, four

4317
05:06:29,606 --> 05:06:34,766
plan sessions, with ratification scheduled before February 10. Administration has

4318
05:06:34,766 --> 05:06:37,526
already started preliminary work on the 2025 budget and is

4319
05:06:37,526 --> 05:06:42,458
working towards presenting. A report with budget directions in July.

4320
05:06:43,574 --> 05:06:47,054
New in this year's process, we conducted a pre budget

4321
05:06:47,054 --> 05:06:51,654
survey to gauge public opinion on the 2025 budget. The

4322
05:06:51,654 --> 05:06:56,731
results are provided in the attachment. Unfortunately, we only received

4323
05:06:56,731 --> 05:07:02,582
219 returns, so we can't necessarily extrapolate. The results to

4324
05:07:02,582 --> 05:07:07,878
the entire population without a significant margin of error. However,

4325
05:07:07,878 --> 05:07:11,278
as city treasurer, the message I received is a the

4326
05:07:11,278 --> 05:07:14,518
public engagement in the budget process is low and b

4327
05:07:14,518 --> 05:07:17,678
for those that are engaged, the budget isn't necessarily easily

4328
05:07:17,678 --> 05:07:22,601
digestible. While this isn't ideal, this information will help our

4329
05:07:22,601 --> 05:07:24,721
team moving forward as we know we need to do

4330
05:07:24,721 --> 05:07:28,161
a better job of educating and communicating with the public.

4331
05:07:29,449 --> 05:07:33,692
Community. Engagement is a key component in accountability of public

4332
05:07:33,692 --> 05:07:36,972
resources and is something we're committed to. Improving. Thank you.

4333
05:07:38,174 --> 05:07:43,030
Thank you for that. Questions? On the budget calendar. Councilor

4334
05:07:43,030 --> 05:07:46,540
Hamilton. Yeah, chair. There seemed to be a little bit

4335
05:07:46,540 --> 05:07:50,740
of pushback on the pre budget consultation meeting the last

4336
05:07:50,740 --> 05:07:52,940
time, but it came up really weak in the survey.

4337
05:07:54,233 --> 05:07:56,113
As not very important to people. And just like, I

4338
05:07:56,113 --> 05:08:01,559
mean, we heard from the chamber. Council. Or. People told

4339
05:08:01,559 --> 05:08:03,319
us they want that back, but then it's not reflected

4340
05:08:03,319 --> 05:08:08,395
in the survey. Could you just corroborate that evidence? Through

4341
05:08:08,395 --> 05:08:14,225
the chair. It might be confusing the pre budget survey.

4342
05:08:15,908 --> 05:08:17,748
With some of the other options that were in the

4343
05:08:17,748 --> 05:08:22,081
survey. Ask policy analyst Vadode to comment on that question.

4344
05:08:23,824 --> 05:08:26,824
Through the chair, we found that there was not a

4345
05:08:26,824 --> 05:08:33,085
lot of appetite. In the respondents to the survey for

4346
05:08:33,085 --> 05:08:39,517
public deputations. I'm assuming that's what we're discussing. With this

4347
05:08:39,517 --> 05:08:44,654
question. Again. We also had such a small sample that

4348
05:08:44,654 --> 05:08:49,094
it's really hard to extrapolate to the greater population. We

4349
05:08:49,094 --> 05:08:52,294
did notice that the trends don't follow the city of

4350
05:08:52,294 --> 05:08:55,494
Thunder Bay. Population. It's obviously people who are more engaged.

4351
05:08:57,093 --> 05:09:02,679
In. City affairs and things like that. So we do

4352
05:09:02,679 --> 05:09:06,553
have to. Take those results with a grain of salt.

4353
05:09:08,203 --> 05:09:13,435
But it seems the people who are invested. In the

4354
05:09:13,435 --> 05:09:17,903
budget process. Are more interested in in person Q and

4355
05:09:17,903 --> 05:09:25,663
A's and surveys. Thank you. Councilor Hamilt or councilor Johnson.

4356
05:09:25,663 --> 05:09:30,423
Thank you, Chad. Just on the final summary report. Presented

4357
05:09:30,423 --> 05:09:34,623
at the February 10 meeting is that, if I understand

4358
05:09:34,623 --> 05:09:38,543
that correctly, just to clarify that's? Taken everything. The process

4359
05:09:38,543 --> 05:09:43,172
and what council has done. And just throwing it into

4360
05:09:43,172 --> 05:09:46,214
a report. For residents to see. Is that essentially what

4361
05:09:46,214 --> 05:09:50,655
that is? So. The February 10 would be the ratification

4362
05:09:50,655 --> 05:09:57,094
vote, so. You would receive. The package, the binder. I

4363
05:09:57,094 --> 05:10:02,414
debate it over four days, make amendments, approve those amendments,

4364
05:10:02,414 --> 05:10:06,094
and then on February 10, you would. Receive the corporate

4365
05:10:06,094 --> 05:10:14,525
report would be represented and voted. And approve that. Day

4366
05:10:14,525 --> 05:10:20,444
on February 10, the 2025 budget would be approved. Okay.

4367
05:10:20,444 --> 05:10:22,804
For some reason, I guess my mistake. I saw it

4368
05:10:22,804 --> 05:10:26,004
as a report being broadcast to show. Residents, everything that

4369
05:10:26,004 --> 05:10:28,244
we've done in my bet on that. Okay. Sorry. Through

4370
05:10:28,244 --> 05:10:33,273
the chairs. That is another enhancement that we are suggesting

4371
05:10:33,273 --> 05:10:41,115
for 2025 budget is. That last year. We ran. A

4372
05:10:41,115 --> 05:10:45,630
budget survey at the same time as deliberations. And as

4373
05:10:45,630 --> 05:10:49,230
results came in, those results, those surveys were actually forwarded

4374
05:10:49,230 --> 05:10:56,452
to council members throughout the budget deliberations. What I were

4375
05:10:56,452 --> 05:11:00,012
suggesting this year is that in addition to doing that,

4376
05:11:00,012 --> 05:11:05,028
we would bring forward a report. On ratification that summarizes

4377
05:11:05,028 --> 05:11:10,456
all the budget survey responses. Survey responses. Sorry. Very good.

4378
05:11:10,456 --> 05:11:19,218
Thank you. Thank you, chair. Councilor gertuga. Thank you, Mr.

4379
05:11:19,218 --> 05:11:22,498
Chair. And just looking here at the capital and budget

4380
05:11:22,498 --> 05:11:26,178
package delivered to city council. January 10, 2025 and then

4381
05:11:26,178 --> 05:11:29,098
the capital and the operating package. Posted the city website

4382
05:11:29,098 --> 05:11:35,801
January 17 I thought we were trying to move. Our

4383
05:11:35,801 --> 05:11:41,280
ratification. Closer to January. So that we're not voting on

4384
05:11:41,280 --> 05:11:45,524
a budget that we were already two months into. So

4385
05:11:45,524 --> 05:11:51,214
I was wondering, why could we not? Post the deliver

4386
05:11:51,214 --> 05:11:54,614
the budget to council and post to the city website

4387
05:11:54,614 --> 05:11:58,661
on the same time. Same date, January 10, and then

4388
05:11:58,661 --> 05:12:01,501
move everything back one week, and then we would be

4389
05:12:01,501 --> 05:12:04,901
ratifying. It February 3. Bring us closer to that January

4390
05:12:04,901 --> 05:12:10,006
ratification date. That other community. Other communities ratify way before

4391
05:12:10,006 --> 05:12:15,864
we do so through the chair. During last year's budget

4392
05:12:15,864 --> 05:12:20,019
discussions with some of our Ontario. Regional and single tier

4393
05:12:20,019 --> 05:12:26,139
community. Groups. We did do a survey. Of when municipalities

4394
05:12:26,139 --> 05:12:33,128
were bringing forward their 2024 budget. 19 of them participated.

4395
05:12:33,128 --> 05:12:36,888
Nine of them brought forward their budgets in the first

4396
05:12:36,888 --> 05:12:40,368
quarter of the budget. Year, including Hamilton and Toronto and

4397
05:12:40,368 --> 05:12:45,733
Hall. Amand all were. In February as well. The reason

4398
05:12:45,733 --> 05:12:50,805
why we want to bring forward or give counsel. The

4399
05:12:50,805 --> 05:12:54,325
budget ahead of time is so. You can read it,

4400
05:12:54,325 --> 05:12:57,565
digest it, and when it becomes public, you have an

4401
05:12:57,565 --> 05:13:03,143
opportunity to have a discussion with your constituents. If the

4402
05:13:03,143 --> 05:13:05,663
city clerk has anything to add. Anything else to add

4403
05:13:05,663 --> 05:13:08,343
on that schedule? So through the chair, I would just

4404
05:13:08,343 --> 05:13:11,103
note that it is our practice that, again, council members

4405
05:13:11,103 --> 05:13:14,903
receive. Information from a city administration prior to public release.

4406
05:13:14,903 --> 05:13:17,263
So that that way you are fully informed and able

4407
05:13:17,263 --> 05:13:21,106
to answer your constituents questions. Well, I would like to

4408
05:13:21,106 --> 05:13:24,626
see us work towards getting into that January date. I

4409
05:13:24,626 --> 05:13:29,253
know other communities. Isn't it, subbury? I believe that. One

4410
05:13:29,253 --> 05:13:31,853
of the things that ratifies before December so that, you

4411
05:13:31,853 --> 05:13:35,653
know, that's the way budgeting should happen before you get

4412
05:13:35,653 --> 05:13:37,853
too much into the year when you've already spent the

4413
05:13:37,853 --> 05:13:40,893
first two months of the proposed budget. So I would

4414
05:13:40,893 --> 05:13:43,133
like to see. I'm not going to propose anything in

4415
05:13:43,133 --> 05:13:45,493
the amendment tonight, but I like to see us continue

4416
05:13:45,493 --> 05:13:49,471
to try to work. As was committed. By City manager

4417
05:13:49,471 --> 05:13:54,519
Gail previously many years ago. Thank you. Okay, we have

4418
05:13:54,519 --> 05:13:59,128
Councilor Agarwal next. I need to respond to that. The

4419
05:13:59,128 --> 05:14:01,488
commitment I made many years ago was to move the

4420
05:14:01,488 --> 05:14:05,128
budget. Process from March to earlier in the year to

4421
05:14:05,128 --> 05:14:07,688
February. And that's what we achieved. I think we did

4422
05:14:07,688 --> 05:14:09,728
that seven years ago or something like that. I don't

4423
05:14:09,728 --> 05:14:14,100
remember exactly. And what we have here is what we

4424
05:14:14,100 --> 05:14:16,300
think the sweet spot is for the right time to

4425
05:14:16,300 --> 05:14:19,660
do the budget. Remember, the earlier you do the budget,

4426
05:14:19,660 --> 05:14:22,980
the less certainty you have as to especially external factors,

4427
05:14:22,980 --> 05:14:25,780
and that increases risk. And if we do it in

4428
05:14:25,780 --> 05:14:28,940
January and February, it does not. Impact contracts. It does

4429
05:14:28,940 --> 05:14:34,221
not impact capital projects adversely anyway. So my advice over

4430
05:14:34,221 --> 05:14:36,541
the past few years has been where we need to

4431
05:14:36,541 --> 05:14:40,362
be now. And my advice has been, it doesn't need

4432
05:14:40,362 --> 05:14:44,202
to change. Thank you. Okay. Sorry. I know. What? I

4433
05:14:44,202 --> 05:14:46,122
spoke to it years ago that we were trying to

4434
05:14:46,122 --> 05:14:49,122
get towards closer to January, so. That was my recollection,

4435
05:14:49,122 --> 05:14:53,181
so I guess we differ. Okay. I have counselor or,

4436
05:14:53,181 --> 05:14:57,962
pardon me, Mayor Boschkoff, then councilor Agarwal. Thank you. And

4437
05:14:57,962 --> 05:15:01,682
I appreciate the survey results because they're quite interesting in

4438
05:15:01,682 --> 05:15:07,480
terms. Of the split. This survey is provided as a

4439
05:15:07,480 --> 05:15:15,948
direction for council politically in terms of. Seeing. What

4440
05:15:15,948 --> 05:15:20,948
preferred types of increases would be done to what extent?

4441
05:15:25,750 --> 05:15:30,725
Does the administration take? These survey results in terms of

4442
05:15:30,725 --> 05:15:38,969
constructing. Their mathematics. I'll ask policy analyst Lovato day to

4443
05:15:38,969 --> 05:15:44,796
comment as well. But unfortunately, because these survey sample is

4444
05:15:44,796 --> 05:15:50,200
so low, it's difficult. To use these results. It does

4445
05:15:50,200 --> 05:15:53,200
give a glimpse of what the public is thinking, but

4446
05:15:53,200 --> 05:16:00,462
only a small portion of the public. I think. The

4447
05:16:00,462 --> 05:16:04,065
results are important. But. I think the biggest story for

4448
05:16:04,065 --> 05:16:07,505
administration is how can we get more involvement with the

4449
05:16:07,505 --> 05:16:11,365
community? How can we get? The survey numbers up so

4450
05:16:11,365 --> 05:16:14,485
that we can use this as more of a barometer

4451
05:16:14,485 --> 05:16:19,788
as to what the municipality as a whole. Mistaken. Policy

4452
05:16:19,788 --> 05:16:23,482
analyst Lovato day has anything to add to that. Through

4453
05:16:23,482 --> 05:16:28,202
the chair. I agree with city treasurer grieves when it

4454
05:16:28,202 --> 05:16:31,362
comes to these results. We had such a small amount.

4455
05:16:32,613 --> 05:16:37,099
Of the resident population. That responded that what we really

4456
05:16:37,099 --> 05:16:41,299
need to do is try to increase our engagement more

4457
05:16:41,299 --> 05:16:49,101
than apply. These specific answers to our budgeting process. So

4458
05:16:49,101 --> 05:16:52,301
it would be really nice to see more public engagement,

4459
05:16:52,301 --> 05:16:56,141
and maybe we need to do more. Advertising or come

4460
05:16:56,141 --> 05:17:00,021
up with some more ways to reach out to more

4461
05:17:00,021 --> 05:17:03,941
people, like more residents of the city so that we

4462
05:17:03,941 --> 05:17:07,141
can get a better idea of what people are actually

4463
05:17:07,141 --> 05:17:14,930
looking for. Thank you for that. Councilor Echo. Thank you

4464
05:17:14,930 --> 05:17:19,181
very much. My question that I was going to have

4465
05:17:19,181 --> 05:17:24,333
in regards to the survey has been answered. But one

4466
05:17:24,333 --> 05:17:27,013
thing that we were tossing around before was a multi

4467
05:17:27,013 --> 05:17:31,532
year budget. You had mentioned that you were maybe looking

4468
05:17:31,532 --> 05:17:35,941
at it. Or are we looking at it? Yes. So

4469
05:17:35,941 --> 05:17:39,461
through the chair, we do have council's endorsement to move

4470
05:17:39,461 --> 05:17:45,867
forward. With a multi year budget in the 2024 capital

4471
05:17:45,867 --> 05:17:50,655
budget. There was some money put aside. For software to

4472
05:17:50,655 --> 05:17:55,362
facilitate that move. The plan right now is to go

4473
05:17:55,362 --> 05:18:01,301
to RFP. In the next few weeks. Most likely, we're

4474
05:18:01,301 --> 05:18:04,021
going to have to bring that to council to be

4475
05:18:04,021 --> 05:18:07,963
approved just based on the dollar amount and. With that

4476
05:18:07,963 --> 05:18:13,906
I intend on bringing forth. Some options for council. So

4477
05:18:13,906 --> 05:18:17,626
once that you're budgeting is being done throughout other municipalities

4478
05:18:17,626 --> 05:18:24,949
across Ontario, To vary. Varying extents. Some do a two

4479
05:18:24,949 --> 05:18:27,589
year operating, two year capital, some do a four year

4480
05:18:27,589 --> 05:18:31,593
operating. Four year capital. Recently I've seen one that one

4481
05:18:31,593 --> 05:18:34,513
municipality that does a two year operating and a four.

4482
05:18:34,513 --> 05:18:41,653
Year capital, which. Is intriguing. Basically. What we would want

4483
05:18:41,653 --> 05:18:44,213
to do is, in the last year of a term

4484
05:18:44,213 --> 05:18:47,533
of counsel, have that council approved at least a two

4485
05:18:47,533 --> 05:18:50,333
year budget so that the first year of a new

4486
05:18:50,333 --> 05:18:56,259
council. Aren't faced with having to learn. The entire municipality

4487
05:18:56,259 --> 05:19:01,712
and. Approve a half billion dollar budget. So that's where

4488
05:19:01,712 --> 05:19:06,641
I'm looking at bringing it. And you should be receiving

4489
05:19:06,641 --> 05:19:12,448
more information. Most likely in August, September on that. Thank

4490
05:19:12,448 --> 05:19:21,152
you very much. Further questions. I had a couple. Just

4491
05:19:21,152 --> 05:19:24,872
to pick up on councilor Hamilton's comments. We did get

4492
05:19:24,872 --> 05:19:29,036
feedback last year. The public deputations in advance of the

4493
05:19:29,036 --> 05:19:35,029
budget. Were different than a Q and a session. In

4494
05:19:35,029 --> 05:19:38,389
that people were in a public forum being heard by

4495
05:19:38,389 --> 05:19:47,393
the public. Were they eliminated due to time constraints? Or

4496
05:19:47,393 --> 05:19:56,867
just they weren't best practice. I think they were eliminated

4497
05:19:56,867 --> 05:20:00,867
because, first of all, a general desire to shorten the

4498
05:20:00,867 --> 05:20:04,427
budget process. And have fewer meetings, and that was probably

4499
05:20:04,427 --> 05:20:08,666
the lowest hanging fruit in order to achieve that. And

4500
05:20:08,666 --> 05:20:12,888
also a sense. Of fine to have deputies here and

4501
05:20:12,888 --> 05:20:15,008
say their speak. But the deputies are also free to

4502
05:20:15,008 --> 05:20:17,568
speak. To you and they're free to speak to administration,

4503
05:20:17,568 --> 05:20:21,528
and that was the purpose of that. Consult that night.

4504
05:20:21,528 --> 05:20:26,168
I recognize that some people wanted their public word and

4505
05:20:26,168 --> 05:20:29,448
wanted to be seen publicly. Giving you their advice, but.

4506
05:20:31,106 --> 05:20:33,346
They were not stopped, nor were they constrained from giving

4507
05:20:33,346 --> 05:20:36,826
you their advice and their thoughts that's. The general feeling

4508
05:20:36,826 --> 05:20:39,786
and approach to and you and I worked on this

4509
05:20:39,786 --> 05:20:42,266
pretty well together for a long time trying to figure

4510
05:20:42,266 --> 05:20:44,946
out how to improve the budget process. That's where we

4511
05:20:44,946 --> 05:20:49,987
led it, okay? So. Are individuals allowed to give a

4512
05:20:49,987 --> 05:20:54,442
deputation if they wish? At other committee meetings prior to

4513
05:20:54,442 --> 05:20:59,552
budget or during budget sessions. So chair through you are.

4514
05:20:59,552 --> 05:21:04,032
Procedural bylaw prohibits deputations that relate to the budget process.

4515
05:21:04,032 --> 05:21:08,485
Because you have removed that. In the past again, we've

4516
05:21:08,485 --> 05:21:12,325
created engagement opportunities that didn't have a barrier where someone

4517
05:21:12,325 --> 05:21:14,285
needed to fill out a form and come and sit

4518
05:21:14,285 --> 05:21:16,845
before council that people had the opportunity. To come in

4519
05:21:16,845 --> 05:21:19,685
off the street, go to a board meeting, call a

4520
05:21:19,685 --> 05:21:22,685
member of council, connect with administration. We were trying to

4521
05:21:22,685 --> 05:21:25,685
be all encompassing. Okay? So in the Q and a

4522
05:21:25,685 --> 05:21:30,050
session, Would allow them to interface with staff and or

4523
05:21:30,050 --> 05:21:36,369
counsel. On that. You've included three options right now, none

4524
05:21:36,369 --> 05:21:39,912
of them brought up as of yet. Or have they?

4525
05:21:39,912 --> 05:21:43,312
So through the chair, option three is included in the

4526
05:21:43,312 --> 05:21:47,472
recommendation. Okay. Option three is. Included. Okay, I must submit

4527
05:21:47,472 --> 05:21:51,112
that. And let me just see what option three is.

4528
05:21:51,112 --> 05:21:54,592
Or maybe you. Can through the chair. I can just

4529
05:21:54,592 --> 05:21:57,272
maybe save a few seconds. The option three is really

4530
05:21:57,272 --> 05:22:00,039
the status quo is to repeat. What we did last

4531
05:22:00,039 --> 05:22:03,319
year with a few enhancements that I've mentioned earlier. All

4532
05:22:03,319 --> 05:22:07,390
right? Lastly. Is the meeting times? Are we to assume

4533
05:22:07,390 --> 05:22:11,190
they're 05:00 p.m. Or. Is there some movement on that?

4534
05:22:11,190 --> 05:22:15,070
Since we're streamlining, I'm just thinking about. People that work

4535
05:22:15,070 --> 05:22:17,910
and people at home that don't tune in at 05:00

4536
05:22:17,910 --> 05:22:21,366
that maybe. Would if we started our meetings at 630.

4537
05:22:23,193 --> 05:22:26,073
So through the chair. I don't believe we've set the

4538
05:22:26,073 --> 05:22:34,293
time on the public. Council. Would like to entertain. But,

4539
05:22:34,293 --> 05:22:38,053
Jerry, you're correct. The meeting start times where budgets are

4540
05:22:38,053 --> 05:22:41,013
05:00. P.m. And have been for years. And I think

4541
05:22:41,013 --> 05:22:43,653
there's good reasons for that. And one of them is,

4542
05:22:43,653 --> 05:22:49,602
sometimes these nights run long. Like we're doing tonight. So

4543
05:22:49,602 --> 05:22:52,522
05:00 p.m. Is a tool to get out of here

4544
05:22:52,522 --> 05:22:55,962
earlier, okay? Yeah. There doesn't seem to be any real

4545
05:22:55,962 --> 05:23:00,372
push to move to 630. Okay. Thank you for those

4546
05:23:00,372 --> 05:23:05,370
answers. I guess it's time to call the question. Okay,

4547
05:23:05,370 --> 05:23:12,256
all those in favor? Any opposed? That's carried. Thank you.

4548
05:23:12,256 --> 05:23:20,183
Chair. The next item. Is. To 2029. Report number 231

4549
05:23:20,183 --> 05:23:25,023
2024. City Manager's Office of City clerk recommends the approval

4550
05:23:25,023 --> 05:23:28,463
of the multi year accessibility plan. The recommendation as contained

4551
05:23:28,463 --> 05:23:30,743
within this report requires a mover in a second or

4552
05:23:30,743 --> 05:23:36,416
chair. Move by councilor training, signed by councilor Hamilton.

4553
05:23:40,795 --> 05:23:47,588
Questions. Councilor Ayello. Thank you. And through the chair. In

4554
05:23:47,588 --> 05:23:54,166
this report. Basically, the majority of what you do is

4555
05:23:54,166 --> 05:23:59,806
legislated and there is no leeway on legislation. Is that

4556
05:23:59,806 --> 05:24:05,868
correct? So chair through you. That's our municipal accessibility specialist,

4557
05:24:05,868 --> 05:24:09,748
Scott Garner, who has been here since. 630. So I

4558
05:24:09,748 --> 05:24:11,748
appreciate him being here. He can certainly come to the

4559
05:24:11,748 --> 05:24:14,748
podium to answer your question. And yes, you are correct.

4560
05:24:14,748 --> 05:24:21,662
It is significantly regulated. Yeah. So it is regulated. So

4561
05:24:21,662 --> 05:24:29,587
in putting. This report together is just a matter of

4562
05:24:29,587 --> 05:24:35,850
updating. The report with new legislation. And the new guidelines.

4563
05:24:37,338 --> 05:24:39,618
So through the chair. So, Scott, if you do want

4564
05:24:39,618 --> 05:24:41,618
to jump in, you're welcome to turn on your microphone.

4565
05:24:41,618 --> 05:24:44,498
It's important to note that there are requirements for the

4566
05:24:44,498 --> 05:24:46,978
multi year accessibility plan, which certainly Scott can speak to

4567
05:24:46,978 --> 05:24:53,022
further, if that is your question, please. Through the chair,

4568
05:24:53,022 --> 05:24:56,262
too, if you don't mind me jumping in. Thank you.

4569
05:24:56,262 --> 05:24:58,982
Just to add. On to what clerk power has mentioned.

4570
05:24:58,982 --> 05:25:01,742
There were some updates that we did provide in the

4571
05:25:01,742 --> 05:25:08,168
multi year plan for. 2024 to 2029, including things like.

4572
05:25:09,513 --> 05:25:14,033
Emergency maintenance of accessible features which are required to be

4573
05:25:14,033 --> 05:25:20,702
included. That has been an updated. Piece of information. That's

4574
05:25:20,702 --> 05:25:23,862
required under the Accessibility Frontarians with Disabilities act to be

4575
05:25:23,862 --> 05:25:27,262
included in the multi year plan. So that is the

4576
05:25:27,262 --> 05:25:30,923
piece that has been included? Yes. That would also be

4577
05:25:30,923 --> 05:25:33,283
included in our asset management plan, I'm assuming as well.

4578
05:25:35,198 --> 05:25:43,274
These considered capital type of assets. This equipment. Chair through

4579
05:25:43,274 --> 05:25:46,594
you. Yes, the city would consider all of its infrastructure

4580
05:25:46,594 --> 05:25:49,874
assets. Certainly smaller assets would be pooled, but there is

4581
05:25:49,874 --> 05:25:53,834
a capital threshold, generally above $10,000 per item to be

4582
05:25:53,834 --> 05:26:03,769
included. Thank you. Any further questions? Mayor Boschko. Is

4583
05:26:03,769 --> 05:26:09,289
there a final process involved in terms of ensuring that

4584
05:26:09,289 --> 05:26:16,482
our materials are made accessible, like in terms of. Braille

4585
05:26:16,482 --> 05:26:20,690
or fonts, that type of thing. Is there a standard

4586
05:26:20,690 --> 05:26:27,502
procedure? That. Happens throughout the organization uniformly.

4587
05:26:35,010 --> 05:26:42,140
Well through the chair. Our communications policies. All of. Our

4588
05:26:42,140 --> 05:26:46,835
materials. That are put out are put out in an

4589
05:26:46,835 --> 05:26:50,665
accessible format. Our website. Is the city of Thunderbase website

4590
05:26:50,665 --> 05:27:00,491
has gone through. Extensive. Rectification. It's almost midnight.

4591
05:27:00,491 --> 05:27:08,094
So my words. Are. Remediation. Thank you, clerk power. Our

4592
05:27:08,094 --> 05:27:13,754
print materials. I know that. Our office. City clerk's office.

4593
05:27:16,214 --> 05:27:21,694
Reviews many reports weekly to ensure accessibility. For example, the

4594
05:27:21,694 --> 05:27:26,182
multi year accessibility plan, which is being produced. Will be

4595
05:27:26,182 --> 05:27:30,527
produced after tonight. We'll ensure that. It is fully accessible

4596
05:27:30,527 --> 05:27:35,847
too. If anything is required in an accessible format by

4597
05:27:35,847 --> 05:27:39,301
a member of the public or by staff member. We

4598
05:27:39,301 --> 05:27:41,901
can certainly look at doing that. And typically it would

4599
05:27:41,901 --> 05:27:47,782
be myself that we're our office. That the person would

4600
05:27:47,782 --> 05:27:52,221
contact. To receive something in an accessible format. The legislation

4601
05:27:52,221 --> 05:27:57,797
says timely and reasonable. Manner to receive that and no

4602
05:27:57,797 --> 05:28:02,887
cost. Or no more than what the cost of the

4603
05:28:02,887 --> 05:28:06,007
document would typically be. So if it's a free document

4604
05:28:06,007 --> 05:28:09,025
that's posted online. There would be no cost to make.

4605
05:28:10,676 --> 05:28:14,036
It accessible for that person requesting it in an accessible

4606
05:28:14,036 --> 05:28:18,579
format. So as things move through, The system. Does everything

4607
05:28:18,579 --> 05:28:21,779
have to go through your office to ensure that it's

4608
05:28:21,779 --> 05:28:28,324
compatible? Through the chair. I'm a resource. To all city

4609
05:28:28,324 --> 05:28:33,467
departments, so we have a number of resources online. Through

4610
05:28:33,467 --> 05:28:38,178
our intranet to ensure that. Staff know how to create

4611
05:28:38,178 --> 05:28:41,995
accessible documents. I'm there as a resource. If staff have

4612
05:28:41,995 --> 05:28:46,635
questions, all staff across the corporation have received. Training on

4613
05:28:46,635 --> 05:28:53,602
what's required. On accessibility. Through. All the integrated accessibility standards,

4614
05:28:53,602 --> 05:28:59,946
regulations. Of the Accessibility Frontarians with Disabilities Act. So that

4615
05:28:59,946 --> 05:29:05,227
includes accessible customer service. That includes information and communication. There's

4616
05:29:05,227 --> 05:29:08,507
general requirements under training. There's all sorts of different just

4617
05:29:08,507 --> 05:29:12,787
to finish that. Train of thought. There's transportation, employment, design

4618
05:29:12,787 --> 05:29:17,657
and public spaces standards. So under information and communication and

4619
05:29:17,657 --> 05:29:24,519
general requirements. And accessible customer service. Our staff. Would know

4620
05:29:24,519 --> 05:29:29,730
and have received training. How to create accessible documents. And

4621
05:29:29,730 --> 05:29:34,772
if they don't, they certainly know where. To find the

4622
05:29:34,772 --> 05:29:38,412
information they can always contact myself to. Thank you very

4623
05:29:38,412 --> 05:29:44,996
much. Good explanation. No further questions. We'll call the question.

4624
05:29:44,996 --> 05:29:51,143
All in favor? Any opposed? That is carried. Thank you,

4625
05:29:51,143 --> 05:29:56,987
chair. With the time being twelve 06:00 a.m. Would ask

4626
05:29:56,987 --> 05:29:59,427
for a mover. And a second or please to continue

4627
05:29:59,427 --> 05:30:05,633
with the business at hand. Any takers? Councilor Oliver. Councilor

4628
05:30:05,633 --> 05:30:09,353
Oliver. And councilor Gurtiga. Thank you. Moved and second all.

4629
05:30:09,353 --> 05:30:17,694
In favor. 123-4567. Any opposed?

4630
05:30:20,121 --> 05:30:27,701
Okay, that's carried. Welcome to Tuesday. I will say, just

4631
05:30:27,701 --> 05:30:29,861
for fun, folks around the table and anyone still with

4632
05:30:29,861 --> 05:30:33,301
us watching at home. When we wrote the bylaw for

4633
05:30:33,301 --> 05:30:35,741
the new city manager. It's one of the for the

4634
05:30:35,741 --> 05:30:38,021
800 and 01:00 a.m. Because we wondered whether or not

4635
05:30:38,021 --> 05:30:40,901
midnight we would be pushing it. You'd have a change

4636
05:30:40,901 --> 05:30:46,276
of guard at a meeting. So continuing on chair, Norm

4637
05:30:46,276 --> 05:30:50,117
could have been leaving. Next, we do have the accessibility

4638
05:30:50,117 --> 05:30:54,677
advisory committee. Terms of reference, report number 231 2024. This

4639
05:30:54,677 --> 05:30:57,117
is the city manager's office recommending the amended terms of

4640
05:30:57,117 --> 05:30:59,837
references appended to the report. A mover and a seconder

4641
05:30:59,837 --> 05:31:02,477
from council. Please move by councilor. I also seconded. By

4642
05:31:02,477 --> 05:31:08,774
councilor Zazino. Any questions? Comments? Councilor Trini, thank you. Through

4643
05:31:08,774 --> 05:31:11,694
the chair. Reading this terms a reference, am I understanding

4644
05:31:11,694 --> 05:31:14,774
there's 16 people on this? Or am I just reading

4645
05:31:14,774 --> 05:31:20,202
it incorrectly? Chair through you. I believe that there are

4646
05:31:20,202 --> 05:31:23,293
16 people. Yes. And most of the folks on the

4647
05:31:23,293 --> 05:31:26,933
accessibility advisory committee are all folks have lived experience. So

4648
05:31:26,933 --> 05:31:29,813
again, people living with disabilities in our community. So the

4649
05:31:29,813 --> 05:31:32,533
change that we brought forward was to change some of

4650
05:31:32,533 --> 05:31:38,190
those members. Currently allocated to specific sectors, to being three

4651
05:31:38,190 --> 05:31:41,470
citizens at large. Again, individuals that represent those living with

4652
05:31:41,470 --> 05:31:44,670
a disability or having lived experience. Thank you for that

4653
05:31:44,670 --> 05:31:50,737
clarification. Seeing. No other questions. Yes, Councilor Aguilar, thank you.

4654
05:31:50,737 --> 05:31:54,841
Just an elaboration. Some of the people that may have

4655
05:31:54,841 --> 05:32:00,058
disabilities. Would their parent or guardian or somebody who's your

4656
05:32:00,058 --> 05:32:03,338
support worker be able to be on the committee representing

4657
05:32:03,338 --> 05:32:06,538
because they personally may not have the disability, but they

4658
05:32:06,538 --> 05:32:09,378
take we do have a spot chair through you. For

4659
05:32:09,378 --> 05:32:12,818
a parent or a caregiver of someone with a disability,

4660
05:32:12,818 --> 05:32:15,578
we also have a service representative as well, someone from

4661
05:32:15,578 --> 05:32:20,474
a service organization. Who works with individuals with disabilities. The

4662
05:32:20,474 --> 05:32:22,994
other thing I will note is we do have individuals

4663
05:32:22,994 --> 05:32:27,674
on our accessibility advisory committee with developmental disabilities, who often

4664
05:32:27,674 --> 05:32:29,954
have a support worker with them or those with a

4665
05:32:29,954 --> 05:32:33,714
mobility disability who require some assistance with transport, and again,

4666
05:32:33,714 --> 05:32:36,834
their support worker would attend with them. But they would

4667
05:32:36,834 --> 05:32:39,491
be the voting member. With a disability would be the

4668
05:32:39,491 --> 05:32:46,389
voting member. And in the off chance that that person

4669
05:32:46,389 --> 05:32:51,614
with a disability wasn't able to fully comprehend. Would their

4670
05:32:51,614 --> 05:32:55,891
guardian. Or their parent be able to be the voting

4671
05:32:55,891 --> 05:32:59,291
member through the chair. We don't transfer voting membership. What

4672
05:32:59,291 --> 05:33:01,531
we do is we work with our members. So again,

4673
05:33:01,531 --> 05:33:04,931
the individuals on that committee we take extra time to

4674
05:33:04,931 --> 05:33:07,491
work with them on the items on the agenda, we

4675
05:33:07,491 --> 05:33:10,211
have a vice chair who has a developmental disability, and

4676
05:33:10,211 --> 05:33:13,586
she's doing an absolutely amazing job because we. Take the

4677
05:33:13,586 --> 05:33:15,866
time to work with her to ensure that she can

4678
05:33:15,866 --> 05:33:18,026
bring things forward to the committee. And present them in

4679
05:33:18,026 --> 05:33:20,906
ways that are of her understanding and her level of

4680
05:33:20,906 --> 05:33:25,512
comprehension. That's great to hear. Thank you. No further questions.

4681
05:33:25,512 --> 05:33:32,488
All those in favor? Any opposed? That is carried. Next

4682
05:33:32,488 --> 05:33:36,688
item, please. Next chair. We have landscape architectural services award,

4683
05:33:36,688 --> 05:33:39,648
prime consultant for City of Thunder Bay Waterfront Festival Area

4684
05:33:39,648 --> 05:33:45,368
renewal report number 235 2024. Infrastructure development and operations recommends

4685
05:33:45,368 --> 05:33:48,528
a request for proposal for prime consultant for this work

4686
05:33:48,528 --> 05:33:52,816
be awarded. This was distributed on Thursday, June the 20th.

4687
05:33:52,816 --> 05:33:56,349
It is scheduled for ratification. Tonight. It would require a

4688
05:33:56,349 --> 05:34:00,149
two thirds vote. The recommendation as contained within the report

4689
05:34:00,149 --> 05:34:03,229
does require a mover and a seconder and general Marshall,

4690
05:34:03,229 --> 05:34:06,629
general manager Marshall would like to provide some opening. Comments,

4691
05:34:06,629 --> 05:34:11,030
please. Thank you. Chair, actually. I'd like to invite Director

4692
05:34:11,030 --> 05:34:15,933
Dixon to make those remarks. I know it's late. It's

4693
05:34:15,933 --> 05:34:18,584
okay. Thank you. So this report recommends the award of

4694
05:34:18,584 --> 05:34:22,624
prime consulting work to be completed for the detailed design,

4695
05:34:22,624 --> 05:34:27,664
preparation of tender packages and construction administration of three phases

4696
05:34:27,664 --> 05:34:30,304
of work planned to update the festival. Area at Prince

4697
05:34:30,304 --> 05:34:37,183
Arthur's Landing. This work is funded 73% through the. Isop

4698
05:34:37,183 --> 05:34:41,822
investing in canada infrastructure program. This large three year project

4699
05:34:41,822 --> 05:34:46,182
will reorient the festival site to relocate the stage area

4700
05:34:46,182 --> 05:34:50,062
to the north end of the field and enhance back

4701
05:34:50,062 --> 05:34:53,782
of house and stage support, including servicing that will benefit

4702
05:34:53,782 --> 05:34:57,870
all events hosted in the festival area. Awarding the design

4703
05:34:57,870 --> 05:35:01,910
of the full renewal project, rather than individual phases will

4704
05:35:01,910 --> 05:35:04,550
result in efficiencies as well as a site with a

4705
05:35:04,550 --> 05:35:08,768
unified field and integrated servicing. Tenders will be designed and

4706
05:35:08,768 --> 05:35:12,088
issued by the consultant each year for three years to

4707
05:35:12,088 --> 05:35:15,328
complete the full project that will improve audience experience and

4708
05:35:15,328 --> 05:35:20,141
allow for more efficient events set up for. Organizers and

4709
05:35:20,141 --> 05:35:26,571
support higher level events and concerts. Happy. To have any

4710
05:35:26,571 --> 05:35:31,171
questions. Thank you for the overview, Councilor Ellen. Thank you.

4711
05:35:31,171 --> 05:35:35,491
And through the chair. Oh, hang on. Procedures. Councilor Hamilton

4712
05:35:35,491 --> 05:35:40,396
moved. Who's our second? Councilor trainee will second. Thank you.

4713
05:35:40,396 --> 05:35:44,356
We're good to go. Thank you. For the next three

4714
05:35:44,356 --> 05:35:53,590
years. Will there be? Large periods of time. Where the

4715
05:35:53,590 --> 05:35:59,042
park will not. Be functional, be used. Through the chair.

4716
05:35:59,042 --> 05:36:04,117
I believe that. Landscape architect Guy Walter is available for

4717
05:36:04,117 --> 05:36:12,984
answering questions. And if not? Then, yes.

4718
05:36:14,886 --> 05:36:19,286
Manager Halberson may be able to add to this, but

4719
05:36:19,286 --> 05:36:22,886
yes, we are looking to work. Around events that are

4720
05:36:22,886 --> 05:36:26,086
scheduled in the park to make sure that we're impacting

4721
05:36:26,086 --> 05:36:28,966
those as little as possible during construction over the next

4722
05:36:28,966 --> 05:36:35,240
three years. That's good. Thank you. Councilor Agarwal. Thank you

4723
05:36:35,240 --> 05:36:41,525
very much. Through the chair. The preliminary funding is asking

4724
05:36:41,525 --> 05:36:46,645
for $741,000. Can we have a breakdown of all the

4725
05:36:46,645 --> 05:36:50,325
costs that we're anticipating over the next three years as

4726
05:36:50,325 --> 05:36:59,465
it's a three year project. So through. The chair. The

4727
05:36:59,465 --> 05:37:04,776
project right now is budgeted for $5 million. Of which

4728
05:37:04,776 --> 05:37:07,416
I believe it's $1.3 million that will be funded by

4729
05:37:07,416 --> 05:37:15,973
the city. That's for the entire project. That was the

4730
05:37:15,973 --> 05:37:19,417
original budget for the project. In the application for the

4731
05:37:19,417 --> 05:37:26,742
ISA program? Yes. Okay. Thank you. Councilor. I'm sorry. I

4732
05:37:26,742 --> 05:37:30,985
forgot to ask one question. So on that budget, The

4733
05:37:30,985 --> 05:37:36,132
HST rebate. I believe it was $73,000. An HST rebate.

4734
05:37:36,132 --> 05:37:40,012
Does that go back into the next, like the following

4735
05:37:40,012 --> 05:37:43,132
year? Where does that money go? Because it shows that.

4736
05:37:44,930 --> 05:37:46,370
It's there, it's spent. But then we're getting it back.

4737
05:37:46,370 --> 05:37:52,230
So where? Does it go? So through the chair. When

4738
05:37:52,230 --> 05:37:55,630
we budget and when we compare actuals to budget, it's

4739
05:37:55,630 --> 05:37:58,550
net of the HST. Rebates, so it's already factored in.

4740
05:38:00,427 --> 05:38:04,886
How would you show that? On. I want to ask

4741
05:38:04,886 --> 05:38:08,483
that question. In the corporate report, page 19.

4742
05:38:14,363 --> 05:38:18,683
Where we deduct the HST rebate of 73,000. So the

4743
05:38:18,683 --> 05:38:22,283
total cost. To the city for this project would be

4744
05:38:22,283 --> 05:38:29,728
$667,000. If the budget. Was $700,000. So the total gross

4745
05:38:29,728 --> 05:38:35,973
cost with HSD is 741. But because we get? A

4746
05:38:35,973 --> 05:38:39,665
portion of the hse back. We are able to, I

4747
05:38:39,665 --> 05:38:44,674
guess, technically invest that money. In capital projects, rather projects.

4748
05:38:44,674 --> 05:38:47,234
So it goes back into capital? Well, that's through the

4749
05:38:47,234 --> 05:38:50,354
chair. I should have specified. It's not just capital where

4750
05:38:50,354 --> 05:38:53,434
we get the HST rebate. We get the HST rebate.

4751
05:38:53,434 --> 05:38:57,113
Being a municipality, we get. The full federal portion of

4752
05:38:57,113 --> 05:39:02,153
the HST back and 78% of the provincial portion. So

4753
05:39:02,153 --> 05:39:06,435
it's on all operating, all. Shouldn't say all because. Hscs

4754
05:39:06,435 --> 05:39:13,148
are complicated. Tax. But generally. We get most feedback. Okay,

4755
05:39:13,148 --> 05:39:18,108
appreciate. Thank you. I don't see any further questions, so

4756
05:39:18,108 --> 05:39:23,301
call the question. All in favor? Any opposed? That is

4757
05:39:23,301 --> 05:39:26,821
carried. Next item. Thank you, chair. The next item on

4758
05:39:26,821 --> 05:39:29,421
the agenda was withdrawn. That was the city of Thunder

4759
05:39:29,421 --> 05:39:34,805
Bay. Energy conservation, demand management. Report. This item was noted

4760
05:39:34,805 --> 05:39:37,965
earlier today that it would be withdrawn from tonight's agenda.

4761
05:39:39,540 --> 05:39:45,567
Following that item. You will skip past our unsheltered homelessness

4762
05:39:45,567 --> 05:39:50,265
report and move to petitions and communications. Which we have

4763
05:39:50,265 --> 05:39:53,865
an appointment of city manager chair. Memorandum from Kerry Orki's

4764
05:39:53,865 --> 05:39:56,705
director of human resources and corporate safety, also scheduled for

4765
05:39:56,705 --> 05:40:00,778
ratification. Again, effective at 08:00 a.m. Tomorrow morning I'm over

4766
05:40:00,778 --> 05:40:04,738
in a second, please move by councilor ellow. Seconded by

4767
05:40:04,738 --> 05:40:11,344
Mayor Ballchoff. Any questions? All those in favor? Any opposed?

4768
05:40:13,707 --> 05:40:22,011
None. Good news. Okay. Chair. I do want to note

4769
05:40:22,011 --> 05:40:24,371
that this item is scheduled for ratification as the bylaw.

4770
05:40:24,371 --> 05:40:27,971
Will be presented at city council immediately following this meeting.

4771
05:40:29,669 --> 05:40:32,549
Now that we've appointed a city manager. Also to appoint

4772
05:40:32,549 --> 05:40:35,469
a fire chief. A memorandum from Carrie Marshall, general manager

4773
05:40:35,469 --> 05:40:39,669
of infrastructure development and operations, also scheduled for ratification. The

4774
05:40:39,669 --> 05:40:43,069
appointment of David Paxton mover in a second, or please

4775
05:40:43,069 --> 05:40:48,869
move by councilor Chung. Second by councilor Pascalino. Any questions?

4776
05:40:48,869 --> 05:40:55,808
All in. Favor. Any opposed? That is carried. Next item,

4777
05:40:55,808 --> 05:40:59,288
please. Next, we have transit and municipal fleet zero emissions

4778
05:40:59,288 --> 05:41:03,128
transition plan. Memorandum from Kelvin Jankowski. Manager of capital facilities

4779
05:41:03,128 --> 05:41:08,923
construction. This was dated June 14, providing a revised presentation

4780
05:41:08,923 --> 05:41:12,643
date for this report for council's consideration. And moving it

4781
05:41:12,643 --> 05:41:15,923
from July 15 to July 22. Mover in a second,

4782
05:41:15,923 --> 05:41:20,523
or please move by councilor Agowal. Second by councilor Zazino.

4783
05:41:20,523 --> 05:41:26,180
Questions? Councilor Ayello? Thank you. Through the chair. So when

4784
05:41:26,180 --> 05:41:31,300
reading the report, it talks about. Savings and potential savings

4785
05:41:31,300 --> 05:41:36,400
or realized savings. There's not really actually a dollar amount.

4786
05:41:40,228 --> 05:41:44,770
To that, so. Basically, what can we expect in the

4787
05:41:44,770 --> 05:41:49,919
way of savings? Yes, we will reduce carbon emissions, for

4788
05:41:49,919 --> 05:41:55,723
example. Greenhouse gases. But considering the amount of money we're

4789
05:41:55,723 --> 05:41:58,243
putting into a lot of these projects, because not everything

4790
05:41:58,243 --> 05:42:03,056
is 100% funded. What sort of really? The return on

4791
05:42:03,056 --> 05:42:06,496
investment for us. If it's going to cost us. A

4792
05:42:06,496 --> 05:42:10,287
million dollars. This is basically just a rescheduling, is it

4793
05:42:10,287 --> 05:42:16,701
not? We should probably wait until it comes forward. Save

4794
05:42:16,701 --> 05:42:22,263
that one. Okay? It's a question you can ask in

4795
05:42:22,263 --> 05:42:29,135
July. Okay. So any other questions? Comments? All those in

4796
05:42:29,135 --> 05:42:36,190
favor? Any opposed? Carried. Chair through you. The outstanding list

4797
05:42:36,190 --> 05:42:42,964
is provided for information. Following that, we have the establishment

4798
05:42:42,964 --> 05:42:47,164
of closed session on Monday, July 15, at 05:00 p.m..

4799
05:42:47,164 --> 05:42:50,084
Mover in a second, or pleased to establish that meeting,

4800
05:42:50,084 --> 05:42:57,078
councilor Pascalino. And councilor Johnson. All in favor? Any opposed?

4801
05:42:59,574 --> 05:43:01,854
That's carried. Next item. Motion to adjourn would be an

4802
05:43:01,854 --> 05:43:06,694
order. Motion to adjourn. Council. Johnson. Seconded by councilor Pascalino.

4803
05:43:06,694 --> 05:43:12,559
All in favor? Excellent. Don't get up and move. For

4804
05:43:12,559 --> 05:43:15,079
those watching still at home, if you're still with us.

4805
05:43:15,079 --> 05:43:18,279
Congratulations that you're still with us. We are going to

4806
05:43:18,279 --> 05:43:21,679
move to city council. Which is going to follow, so

4807
05:43:21,679 --> 05:43:23,559
please refresh your screens should you want to stay with

4808
05:43:23,559 --> 05:43:32,508
us. At home. Congratulations. Let me say congratulations.

4809
05:43:34,374 --> 05:43:39,930
No. I know.