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Good evening, everyone. I'd like to call the gross standing

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committee meeting to order, please. Clerk Walters. First I'm on

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the agenda is a land acknowledgement from council or treaty.

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Council. Trinity, please, if everyone could please stand. We acknowledge

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that we have the privilege to work on the traditional

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lands of the Nonishnabi. Peoples of Fort Williams, First Nation

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signatory to the Robinson Superior Treaty of 1850. This land

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has been a place of gathering, learning and sustenance for

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indigenous people since time. Immemorial, we recognize the enduring presence

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and deep traditional knowledge of first nations, Inuit and mates,

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people and the ways they have shaped and continued to

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shape our community. We acknowledge the effects of colonization, including

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displacement, loss of culture, and intergenerational trauma, and we commit

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ourselves to reconciliation through respectful relationships, truth telling and shared

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action for a better future. Please take a moment to

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pause and reflect.

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Thank you. Good evening, folks. Just a couple of things

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I'll run through to start off. With. Just to let

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everyone know, the decision today is on the surplus of

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the lands, not the actual developments. The recommending endorsement will

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come to council in January to declare a land surplus

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to enable housing developments. Decisions regarding specific development proposals will

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be addressed at a later stage through any required zoning

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amendments for example. Fanshaw and Arundel will require zoning amendments

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and that therefore will have public meetings. Where you can

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provide public input for or against the proposals. I'd like

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to remind everyone just if we cannot restate what other

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people have said. I understand. Some people might be here.

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For. The same property. And there'll be ten minutes per

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deputation. With around five minutes from council members. With three

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questions maximum. And then. So that's what it so clerk

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Walters. Are there any disclosures of interest? Seeing none. Are

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there any further announcements? See none. First I'm on the

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agenda is the confirmation of the agenda. I need a

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mover and a second Councilor Pascalino, Councilor Aguwal. All those

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in favor? Opposed to penny. That's carried. That same on

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the agenda is under reports of administration to the surplus

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declaration. Call for proposals for the four opportunity sites. Report

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387 2025 from growth. It seeks endorsement from this standing

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committee. To declare the opportunity site surplus. For potential future

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residential development. We have open remarks this evening from Commissioner

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Marshall. Commissioner Marshall, please. Thank you chair. As stated earlier,

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this report seeks endorsement to declare four city owned sites

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as surplus for housing consistent with council's direction to identify

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lands that can support new housing supply. Additional housing. Is

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urgently needed to meet the current demand and improve affordability.

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Declaring the lens surplus is an early step. It signals

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council's intent for these sites to support future housing, but

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it does not approve the conceptual design, density, layout, or

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any specific development proposal. Two of the sites, 144 Fanshaw

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street and 791 Arundel street, will also require rezoning which

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includes a statutory public process and further opportunities for residents

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to provide input. The mayor's task force on building more

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homes has endorsed the surplus recommendation and will continue to

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be engaged in the process. If council declares the land

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surplus, administration would work with the proponents to refine the

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concepts and negotiate agreements of purchase and sale, all of

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which would return to council for further consideration and decision.

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I would now like to invite director deputor and manager

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walker to present some additional details. Go ahead, please. Thank

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you. Chair of the team is pleased to present this

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report which advances the city's efforts to improve housing supply

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and affordability. Next slide, please. As commissioner Marshalls noted, Thunder

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Bay requires more housing units and also greater housing choice

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to meet the needs of current residents and accommodate anticipated

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population growth. Thunder Bay is currently facing a shortage of

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approximately 1100 housing units. And this directly affects residents who

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are searching for appropriate housing and drives up price across

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a housing market. Currently, rent is not affordable to 50%

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of Thunder Bay rental renter households. It is important to

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double the rate of unit construction to address this issue.

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Additional large scale projects are required to achieve this. By

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advancing the conceptual developments outlined in the support, there is

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an opportunity to make a major impact. The development could

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add a significant number of units, including 700 units with

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building permits in 2026. Increasing the supply will help stabilize

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housing costs and free up existing housing inventory. Through the

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surveys, we heard general public support to develop these lands

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for housing, along with concerns of the surrounding neighborhoods. Next

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slide, please. One of the questions that is often heard

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is who will live at these developments? And the answer

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is that the homes will be available to everyone. The

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residents of the buildings may be young professionals. Young families,

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new residents to Thunder Bay, or neighbors who wish to

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stay in the neighborhood in age and place. Approximately 10%

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of the units would be affordable to mid and lower

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income households as required by CMHC financing support. I will

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invite manager Walker to walk us through the properties in

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the next steps. Next slide, please. Thank you, director. To

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pewter through the chair. A council's direction, administration undertook the

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exercise of selecting city owned vacant lands within the urban

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boundary and in existing neighborhoods suitable to support housing development.

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In June of this year, the city issued a call

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for proposals for various sites, including the four to be

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considered this evening. Certain development studies have been completed in

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all four sites have access to city. Infrastructure, including street

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frontage, piped services and amenity spaces. Next slide, please. Conceptual

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development proposals submitted through the call for proposals reviewed and

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assessed by applying the smart growth principles of track record,

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including demonstrated experience and past project quality, alignment with the

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city's housing and growth objectives of affordability, density, and sustainability

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and addressing community and neighborhood need. It. Is based on

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this assessment, administration is recommending moving forward with the next

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step of declaring the foresights of surplus for housing. Next

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slide, please. In addition to updates to this standing committee

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and the Mayor's task force on building more homes. Public

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notice of the intent to surplus the four properties was

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issued by way of letter city. Website and posted signage

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on each property. In addition, a greater level of public

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engagement was undertaken. With a survey on the city's get

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involved page and two open houses. All feedback received through

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this various methods is appreciated and will be further addressed

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in the conceptual as the conceptual developments are refined through

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negotiation, site plan control and zoning bylaw amendment stages as

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applicable. Next slide, please. 791 of Rundle street is 3.15

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vacant land north of Boulevard Lake. It is currently zoned

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community and rezoning would be required. The conceptual development is

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up to 600 units contained in three six story buildings.

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Conceptually shown here. It is noted that the density of

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this development is higher than some others discussed tonight and

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exceeds that permitted by the urban mid rise zone. Next

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slide, please. Written questions and concerns were submitted by 52

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residents, including impact on recreation and green space infrastructure capacity

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development density and potential impact on property values. Individual members

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of the mayor's task force consider the density too high

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for this site. It is anticipated that the scale of

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the development will be reduced to. A degree at the

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time of a zoning bylaw amendment application. Next slide, please.

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49.7% of survey respondents were very supportive or supportive of

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the development proposal. 39.5 were not supportive. And 15.9% neutral

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are not sure. Next slide, please. 144 Fanshaw street is

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1.25 vacant land across from Confederation College. It is currently

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zoned urban low rise and rezoning of to the urban

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mid rise zone will be required. The conceptual development is

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up to 200 units contained within one six story building.

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Conceptually shown here. Next slide, please. Written questions and concerns

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were submitted by 34 residents, including impact on green space

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infrastructure capacity, noise and potential impact on property values. Next

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slide, please. 58.9% of survey respondents were very supportive or

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supportive 23.3% were not supportive. And 17.8% were neutral or

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not sure. Next slide, please. 300 Tokyo street is 2.6.

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Vacant land at the corner of John street and Junette.

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Avenue south. It is zoned urban, mid rise. The conceptual

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development is up to 400 units contained. Within two six

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story buildings, conceptually shown here. Next slide, please. Written questions

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and concerns were submitted by three residents, including impact on

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green space infrastructure capacity and noise next slide, please. 60.9%

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of survey respondents were supportive or very supportive. 13.3 were

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not supportive and 25.9% neutral or not sure. Next slide,

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please. 211 to 223 Tupper street and 224 Camelot street

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is zero point 28. Vacant land in the north core

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in his own downtown neighborhood. The conceptual development is up

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to 8185 units and community spaces. Next slide, please. No

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written questions or concerns were submitted. 64.8% of survey respondents

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were very supportive or supportive, 12% were not supportive and

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23.2%. Neutral or not? Sure. Next slide, please. Following this

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meeting, administration will proceed with its report to council in

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January. Should counsel approve the surplus recommendation? Administration would proceed

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to refine the conceptual development proposals and negotiate. Purchase agreements

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with proponents. These agreements would be conditional upon site plan

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control and rezoning where required. Once settled, administration would return

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to the Standing Committee for endorsement of the sales and

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to counsel for approval. Zoning bylaw amendment applications and detailed

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site find control agreement. Negotiation would follow. I'll now turn

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things back to director, to pewter. Thank you. Next slide,

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please. Just the final slide chair to close this report

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recommends that this committee endorsed the recommendation that council declared

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the four opportunity sites as surplus to support housing. The

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mayor's task force has endorsed the recommendation and request regular

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updates. We thank the residents. The task force, the committee,

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and this committee for their feedback throughout this process. Should

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the properties be declared surplus staff will work with the

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developers to refine the proposals to address community concerns. The

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specific development proposals will be further considered in the future.

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Steps that are outlined by manager Walker. Where required, zoning

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amendment process will address items such as scale, density and

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parking requirements. A detailed site plan would be available at

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that time, and there will be additional opportunity for public

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input and another public meeting of council for this purpose.

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The site plan control process will specify lighting, access, servicing,

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drainage, landscaping, building placement, and address traffic concerns. Technical studies

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such as traffic and servicing studies will be completed to

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inform the process and further address concerns raised by the

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public. Through the chair. Thank you. And to the committee,

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thank you for the opportunity to present and for your

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consideration of this report and administration's pleas to answer any

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questions. Thank you. Manager Walker, director, deputy and Commissioner Marshall.

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Thank you for the intro. Clerk Walters, please. Chair. We

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can reach your questions of administration, although, as discussed, if

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there is no pertinent questions right now. We can wait

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till the end. There will be three rounds. Five minutes

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each for questions to the report. Let's save it. To

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the end, right? Okay. All right. We do have a

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number of deputies scheduled for this evening. The first one

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has been received from Conor McLeod on November the 13th,

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requesting to appear before a standing committee. Welcome s. Mcleod.

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Lights on, so it's on. If you can just be

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about six inches away from the mic. When you're ready,

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you'll have ten minutes. Okay. All right. Good evening. I'm

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here in regards to the housing proposal on Rundal and

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Toledo in the green. Space. I have been following this

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topic from its inception, and I'm alarmed at which the

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speed in which this process is moving. Hundreds of community

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members showed up to the award meeting on November 5,

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2025, in order to gather more information on this proposal

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as well as to, err, grievances. The entire community expressed

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anger, frustration and discontent in regards to this project. In

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fact, out of the hundreds of people who showed up

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that night, there was only one individual. Who was in

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favor of this venture. She did not live in the

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immediate area, nor was she a lifelong member, as many

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who are against this. Are. Of course. I recorded this

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historical award meeting for reference as it has been some

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time since the community has come together in agreement on

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a concern such as this in quite some time. In

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fact. This act alone should be enough to put an

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end to this housing proposal. As the community has spoken

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and we have said no. However, I will give you

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some of the very real concerns we as a community

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share. If the proposed 600 unit complex went through with

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between two to four people per unit. This would increase

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the population of Curt river by roughly between. 1502, 400

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people. For reference. The town of Nippigan is roughly 1500

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people and the population of Atticoken. Is roughly 2600 people.

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You are talking about moving the population of a small

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town into that few square kilometers. This would raise the

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population of Kert river by over 40% in a very

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short period of time. Ironically, the politicians at the ward

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meetings said in regards to this ten year smart growth

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plan that fast growth too quickly is not a positive

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thing in the short or long term. I feel raising

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the population by over 40% overnight qualifies as fast growth.

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There are also valid environmental concerns, as this property is

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home to many animals that. Would be mortally affected and

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displaced. Not only do community members use this environmental green

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space daily, but people from all across Thunder Bay. Come

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as well to use and to appreciate this area. As

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00:16:59,458 --> 00:17:02,778
one community member put it so eloquently, I go there

239
00:17:02,778 --> 00:17:05,298
every single day and have never seen the same person

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00:17:05,298 --> 00:17:10,612
twice. There are also infrastructure concerns, as massive parking structures

241
00:17:10,612 --> 00:17:13,252
would need to be built in tandem with this. Property

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00:17:13,252 --> 00:17:16,485
to account for the influx of people. And traffic is

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00:17:16,485 --> 00:17:25,435
already an issue this community brings up regularly. we are

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00:17:25,435 --> 00:17:28,755
not against growth or development personally i had no issue

245
00:17:28,755 --> 00:17:32,195
with the building project on huron as the pros outweighed

246
00:17:32,195 --> 00:17:31,907
the cons It makes sense. However, the proposal on a

247
00:17:31,907 --> 00:17:35,507
rendal makes no sense at all. Destroying a beautiful area

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00:17:35,507 --> 00:17:39,067
the community uses daily and yearly. When we have fought

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00:17:39,067 --> 00:17:41,427
for this area in the past and especially when there

250
00:17:41,427 --> 00:17:45,707
are far more suitable properties. Makes no sense at all.

251
00:17:45,707 --> 00:17:49,897
It is not logical or practical. These are only some

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00:17:49,897 --> 00:17:52,537
of the very real concerns we share as a united

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00:17:52,537 --> 00:17:56,457
community. We have been meeting regularly to discuss this project

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00:17:56,457 --> 00:17:59,468
and will continue to do so. I hope our very

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00:17:59,468 --> 00:18:02,068
real concerns are not lost on you, and I thank

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00:18:02,068 --> 00:18:04,508
you for taking the time to hear us out. Thanks

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00:18:04,508 --> 00:18:09,413
again. Regards, Conor McLeod. Thank you, Mr. McLeod. There any

258
00:18:09,413 --> 00:18:14,965
questions? Not at this time. The deputation. Councilor Agwell, please.

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00:18:16,629 --> 00:18:22,802
Okay. Thank you very much, chair. Mr. Cloud. In your

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00:18:22,802 --> 00:18:26,282
presentation, you said you're not against growth, but you're against

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00:18:26,282 --> 00:18:30,134
this project. Is it the density of the project or

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00:18:30,134 --> 00:18:36,689
is it. Specifically. It's the environmental green space. We use

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00:18:36,689 --> 00:18:40,369
this space. As I said, daily people come from all

264
00:18:40,369 --> 00:18:44,214
across Thunder Bay to use this. Space. So that particular

265
00:18:44,214 --> 00:18:48,771
area. Is not necessarily. The project, so to speak. It's

266
00:18:48,771 --> 00:18:53,452
the destroying of that particular area. My subsequent question to

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00:18:53,452 --> 00:18:59,609
you would be if. The project. Was enhancing the green

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00:18:59,609 --> 00:19:03,102
space. With other type of housing. Would you be amendable

269
00:19:03,102 --> 00:19:05,382
to that, or would you be opposed to that and

270
00:19:05,382 --> 00:19:09,326
you want to leave it all as. definitely i think

271
00:19:09,326 --> 00:19:11,794
that's the main concern Just to leave it the way

272
00:19:11,794 --> 00:19:15,584
that it is. For the animals and for the people

273
00:19:15,584 --> 00:19:19,533
that use it every single day. And my third question

274
00:19:19,533 --> 00:19:23,427
to you through the chair would be. Proportionately for the

275
00:19:23,427 --> 00:19:25,387
city of Thunder Bay. Current river I grew up in

276
00:19:25,387 --> 00:19:28,267
current river myself. I went to cloud garden 100 years

277
00:19:28,267 --> 00:19:31,894
ago. But current river do you not find it has

278
00:19:31,894 --> 00:19:36,219
proportionately a lot more? Park and green space compared to

279
00:19:36,219 --> 00:19:38,739
any other part of our city. That's precisely why we're

280
00:19:38,739 --> 00:19:41,739
here, actually, because I feel like this would just be

281
00:19:41,739 --> 00:19:46,723
only a domino effect. That would perpetuate. The changing of

282
00:19:46,723 --> 00:19:48,603
print river, fundamentally. You know what I mean? That's why

283
00:19:48,603 --> 00:19:54,189
I love this. Community. That's why I'm here. I just

284
00:19:54,189 --> 00:19:57,029
want current river to stay Kurt river. And as I

285
00:19:57,029 --> 00:20:01,375
said before, I wasn't ever against other projects in current

286
00:20:01,375 --> 00:20:04,095
river. It's just that particular area. You know what I

287
00:20:04,095 --> 00:20:07,815
mean? Because it's dear to me and it's part of

288
00:20:07,815 --> 00:20:11,860
Kerr river. You know what I mean? Thank you. Thank

289
00:20:11,860 --> 00:20:15,700
you. See? No further questions. You may return. Thank you.

290
00:20:15,700 --> 00:20:19,921
Thank you very much. Clerk Walters, please. I'm on the

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00:20:19,921 --> 00:20:22,841
agenda. Correspondence received from Laurie Santiac from on November the

292
00:20:22,841 --> 00:20:25,521
14th, requesting to appear before a standing committee and note

293
00:20:25,521 --> 00:20:29,081
there was additional information relative to this deputation. Distributed on

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00:20:29,081 --> 00:20:33,921
Friday, November the 20 eigth welcome, Ms. Antique. And again,

295
00:20:33,921 --> 00:20:43,424
you'll have ten minutes when you're ready. Good evening, Mayor

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00:20:43,424 --> 00:20:47,424
Boschkov. Members of the growth standing committee, members of city

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00:20:47,424 --> 00:20:51,024
administration. My name is. Laurie Santinc, I'm here today speaking

298
00:20:51,024 --> 00:20:54,064
on behalf of my husband and myself, as well as

299
00:20:54,064 --> 00:20:58,024
my neighbors, nine other property owners on Toledo street whose

300
00:20:58,024 --> 00:21:04,435
homes are adjacent to the proposed. 600 unit development at

301
00:21:04,435 --> 00:21:08,235
791 Arundel and who will be directly impacted by the

302
00:21:08,235 --> 00:21:12,395
largest proposed development in the history of Thunder Bay. In

303
00:21:12,395 --> 00:21:15,355
support of my deputation, I have provided a joint letter

304
00:21:15,355 --> 00:21:18,715
signed by my fellow neighbors, along with copies of two

305
00:21:18,715 --> 00:21:22,715
blog posts by Livio di Mateo professor of economics, Lakehead.

306
00:21:23,046 --> 00:21:26,206
University, as well as his recent interview with TB News

307
00:21:26,206 --> 00:21:30,537
Watch on November 25. We are unanimous in our desire

308
00:21:30,537 --> 00:21:32,737
to see the green space be left as is to

309
00:21:32,737 --> 00:21:35,697
be enjoyed. Not only by us, but by the community

310
00:21:35,697 --> 00:21:39,137
at large. This is not some random lot owned by

311
00:21:39,137 --> 00:21:41,857
the city. It is a wonderful green space enjoyed for

312
00:21:41,857 --> 00:21:46,297
decades, 365 days a year by our local community, as

313
00:21:46,297 --> 00:21:49,650
well as many residents throughout Thunder Bay, with its. Mature

314
00:21:49,650 --> 00:21:52,810
trees, grasses and open fields. It provides habitat and acts

315
00:21:52,810 --> 00:21:55,930
as a wildlife corridor for the abundant animals who share

316
00:21:55,930 --> 00:21:59,170
our world. It provides a car free, safe space for

317
00:21:59,170 --> 00:22:02,850
the many runners, walkers, dog walkers, cyclists, cross country skiers,

318
00:22:02,850 --> 00:22:06,610
skate skiers, mountain bikers, children going to school, bird watchers.

319
00:22:06,610 --> 00:22:10,297
Running events. The lifts goes on the city. Has invested

320
00:22:10,297 --> 00:22:13,817
in this green space by installing a paved, lit, multiuse

321
00:22:13,817 --> 00:22:17,497
trail maintained year round with access from the active living

322
00:22:17,497 --> 00:22:21,617
corridor along a rundle lion boulevard, as well as a

323
00:22:21,617 --> 00:22:26,737
pathway between 414 and 412 Toledo. As you already know,

324
00:22:26,737 --> 00:22:29,417
out of the ten opportunity sites chosen by city admin.

325
00:22:29,080 --> 00:22:33,850
Administration 791 Arundel is the only one zoned community zone,

326
00:22:33,850 --> 00:22:37,050
a zoning designation used by the city for park space

327
00:22:37,050 --> 00:22:41,370
throughout Thunder Bay. Yes, this zoning also allows some development,

328
00:22:41,370 --> 00:22:44,650
but not residential. And definitely not the type of massive

329
00:22:44,650 --> 00:22:48,454
development that is being proposed. Why, we ask, of all

330
00:22:48,454 --> 00:22:51,374
the parcels available to the city for development, is it

331
00:22:51,374 --> 00:22:54,334
now choosing to build the largest housing development in the

332
00:22:54,334 --> 00:22:57,134
history of the city on what is and always has

333
00:22:57,134 --> 00:22:59,894
been. Seen and used by residents of Thunder Bay as

334
00:22:59,894 --> 00:23:04,614
park space. In our opinion, this sets a terrible precedent,

335
00:23:04,614 --> 00:23:08,235
Professor Diamateo's blog posts and interview le. Lends credence to

336
00:23:08,235 --> 00:23:10,955
our letter and our concerns and comments about this proposed

337
00:23:10,955 --> 00:23:14,195
development in his blog post of November 20, he states,

338
00:23:15,571 --> 00:23:18,331
The logical place to target density developments in Thunder Bay

339
00:23:18,331 --> 00:23:21,211
should be the two former downtown core areas. Of Port

340
00:23:21,211 --> 00:23:24,451
Arthur and Fort William and the corridor connecting them that

341
00:23:24,451 --> 00:23:27,691
runs along an immediately adjacent to water, Fort William Road,

342
00:23:27,691 --> 00:23:32,531
Simpson streets and Algoma Memorial, may street, the Shunia area

343
00:23:32,531 --> 00:23:36,951
neighborhood is definitely not the largest. Sorry, not the location

344
00:23:36,951 --> 00:23:39,951
for the largest housing development the city has ever seen

345
00:23:39,951 --> 00:23:43,671
and even runs contrary to Thunder Bay's official plan. In

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00:23:43,671 --> 00:23:46,391
order to fit 600 units, the green space will have

347
00:23:46,391 --> 00:23:49,991
to be rezoned urban high rise. Such zoning and massive

348
00:23:49,991 --> 00:23:53,311
development allowing buildings up to 45 meters or twelve to

349
00:23:53,311 --> 00:23:56,966
15 stories high, is not. Compatible in scale and mass

350
00:23:56,966 --> 00:24:01,366
with the surrounding community of single family homes. Smaller apartment

351
00:24:01,366 --> 00:24:05,446
buildings consisting of anywhere from four to 127 units, a

352
00:24:05,446 --> 00:24:09,846
72 unit condominium complex or the 118 units in Chartwell

353
00:24:09,846 --> 00:24:14,446
Thunder Bay's retirement home complex. It literally dwarfs every single

354
00:24:14,446 --> 00:24:18,204
other build type in the. Neighborhood. The development is also

355
00:24:18,204 --> 00:24:20,924
contrary to many of the tenants in the city's various

356
00:24:20,924 --> 00:24:25,819
policy. Strategies, plans and guidelines which no doubt we, the

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00:24:25,819 --> 00:24:29,859
taxpayers, have spent thousands, if not millions of dollars. To

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00:24:29,859 --> 00:24:33,779
have the city produce. For example, Thunderbase housing lands needs

359
00:24:33,779 --> 00:24:36,579
study and strategy the climate forward. Thunder Bay net Zero

360
00:24:36,579 --> 00:24:40,859
strategy, the smart growth action planets in its draft form,

361
00:24:40,859 --> 00:24:44,024
or the Thunder Bay urban design. And landscape guideline. These

362
00:24:44,024 --> 00:24:47,224
city documents, as well as various media releases and interviews

363
00:24:47,224 --> 00:24:51,438
with local media. Use urban planning language, such as creating

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00:24:51,438 --> 00:24:55,838
integrated spaces that combine residential, commercial, and public amenities building

365
00:24:55,838 --> 00:24:59,718
homes in areas that already have neighborhood amenities infill development,

366
00:24:59,718 --> 00:25:03,238
keeping our taxes lower, making better use of existing structure

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00:25:03,238 --> 00:25:06,758
infrastructure and allowing more people to live in walkable, connected

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00:25:06,758 --> 00:25:13,171
neighborhoods by 2030. 5%. 65% of trips within the city

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00:25:13,171 --> 00:25:16,851
will be by walking, cycling or public transit. Neighborhoods are

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00:25:16,851 --> 00:25:21,491
complete compact and walkable. Thunderbase, forest and green spaces are

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00:25:21,491 --> 00:25:26,080
protected and provide essential ecosystem services. In his interview with

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00:25:26,080 --> 00:25:29,880
TB Newswatch, Professor D. Mateo stated that putting developments, and

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00:25:29,880 --> 00:25:33,480
I quote, wherever the city conveniently has a piece of

374
00:25:33,480 --> 00:25:36,480
green space in the short run may seem optimal because

375
00:25:36,480 --> 00:25:39,440
it's quick, but what they're doing is creating a more

376
00:25:39,440 --> 00:25:44,040
dispersed city that's. Even more dependent on vehicles. And dependent

377
00:25:44,040 --> 00:25:48,421
on vehicles we are. According to Walkscore.com, a website whose

378
00:25:48,421 --> 00:25:53,111
mission is to promote walkable neighborhoods. Arch union neighborhood. Is

379
00:25:53,111 --> 00:25:56,351
considered car dependent with a walk score of 13 out

380
00:25:56,351 --> 00:26:00,791
of 100. 791 Arundel to Hotter Avenue, where some basic

381
00:26:00,791 --> 00:26:04,671
amenities do exist, is a 2.3 kilometer walk along a

382
00:26:04,671 --> 00:26:09,511
rundle. Without continuous sidewalks on the road with car traffic

383
00:26:09,511 --> 00:26:13,273
in this weather, although the active living Corri. Corridor has

384
00:26:13,273 --> 00:26:17,473
cycling opportunities. It is neither protected nor maintained year round,

385
00:26:17,473 --> 00:26:20,113
and there is only one bus. Servicing our neighborhood, the

386
00:26:20,113 --> 00:26:23,793
number seven Hudson, running every 30 minutes in peak times.

387
00:26:23,793 --> 00:26:27,673
And this bus doesn't? Even run east along a rundle.

388
00:26:27,673 --> 00:26:31,473
Toledo and Conmey do not have continuous sidewalks. So again,

389
00:26:31,473 --> 00:26:34,551
even considering walking a direct. Route to downtown is about

390
00:26:34,551 --> 00:26:37,551
3.8k or a 50 minutes walk if you're in good

391
00:26:37,551 --> 00:26:41,271
health, including on roads with traffic. There are no major

392
00:26:41,271 --> 00:26:45,631
stores, banks, there's no LCBO medical offices, never mind large

393
00:26:45,631 --> 00:26:49,151
employers in our neighborhood or in current river residents in

394
00:26:49,151 --> 00:26:52,031
this neighborhood must drive or use transit, which, as I'm

395
00:26:52,031 --> 00:26:55,142
sure you're aware, is neither. Convenient, fast, or the most

396
00:26:55,142 --> 00:26:58,102
efficient means of getting to any of the major employers

397
00:26:58,102 --> 00:27:01,644
here in thunder. Bay. We do not understand why the

398
00:27:01,644 --> 00:27:04,444
city would consider destroying this well used in love green

399
00:27:04,444 --> 00:27:07,844
space would consider cutting down force that provides an essential

400
00:27:07,844 --> 00:27:12,124
ecosystem service in our neighborhood and proposes 600 unit housing.

401
00:27:12,124 --> 00:27:15,924
Development, which will add at least 600 plus more vehicles,

402
00:27:15,924 --> 00:27:19,684
spewing emissions and increasing noise pollution. And add upwards of

403
00:27:19,684 --> 00:27:23,512
1200 plus. People to a car dependent neighborhood that is

404
00:27:23,512 --> 00:27:28,832
not walkable, not complete, not compact, not connected once again,

405
00:27:28,832 --> 00:27:32,752
a quote from Professor Di Mateo's blog, posted November 20

406
00:27:32,752 --> 00:27:35,272
the problem here is that Thunder Bay's idea of increasing

407
00:27:35,272 --> 00:27:39,272
density in a climate crisis apparently includes cutting down swast.

408
00:27:39,272 --> 00:27:42,610
The green space to build. Density development in areas often

409
00:27:42,610 --> 00:27:45,930
removed from where density either already exists or should be

410
00:27:45,930 --> 00:27:50,410
promoted. Moreover, the constant dispersion of new development results in

411
00:27:50,410 --> 00:27:54,090
the new residents of these density developments having to rely

412
00:27:54,090 --> 00:27:58,610
mainly on automobile transport rather than public transport transit, which

413
00:27:58,610 --> 00:28:01,702
is not convenient or timely given. The disbursed nature of

414
00:28:01,702 --> 00:28:09,179
the city. Mayor Boschkov, councilors, members of city administration. We

415
00:28:09,179 --> 00:28:12,419
are not against building housing, but we are against using

416
00:28:12,419 --> 00:28:15,659
green space to build this type of density not only

417
00:28:15,659 --> 00:28:19,310
here, but across the city. Now. Build here if you

418
00:28:19,310 --> 00:28:22,590
must, but only if there are no other options. If

419
00:28:22,590 --> 00:28:27,158
you insist on using this green space. The owners of

420
00:28:27,158 --> 00:28:31,478
houses along Toledo proposed a much smaller development, zoned, no

421
00:28:31,478 --> 00:28:34,558
larger than urban mid rise that leaves the multi use

422
00:28:34,558 --> 00:28:38,198
trail as is provides a buffer between any development and

423
00:28:38,198 --> 00:28:42,198
the existing property owners on Toledo and is compatible in

424
00:28:42,198 --> 00:28:46,337
scale and mass with the surrounding community. But please. Before

425
00:28:46,337 --> 00:28:52,021
you even consider designating this parcel surplus. Never mind allowing

426
00:28:52,021 --> 00:28:55,301
a proposed 600 unit development, or even a smaller one.

427
00:28:56,758 --> 00:29:01,278
Consider the learned opinion of Professor D. Mateo the overall

428
00:29:01,278 --> 00:29:05,158
character of this union neighborhood. The concerns of the adjacent

429
00:29:05,158 --> 00:29:09,473
property owners and the wider community. The car dependent nature

430
00:29:09,473 --> 00:29:12,673
of this area, the lack of adequate walking and cycling.

431
00:29:14,036 --> 00:29:17,516
Infrastructure, the lack of local services and amenities, the destruction

432
00:29:17,516 --> 00:29:20,996
of forest and green space, and what the removal of

433
00:29:20,996 --> 00:29:24,316
a well used and much love park space means to

434
00:29:24,316 --> 00:29:27,756
the residents of our shunian neighborhood and the community of

435
00:29:27,756 --> 00:29:32,301
current river. Thank you. Thank you so much for that

436
00:29:32,301 --> 00:29:36,701
detailed deputation. And Councilor Atrini, please. Thank you. Through the

437
00:29:36,701 --> 00:29:39,021
chair. Thank you very much for your presentation today and

438
00:29:39,021 --> 00:29:44,102
coming tonight. I did receive your report and went through

439
00:29:44,102 --> 00:29:48,782
it. Very detailed. Fantastic. I'm going to refer to the

440
00:29:48,782 --> 00:29:53,031
map. I used to live in kert river. For a

441
00:29:53,031 --> 00:29:55,351
large portion. But on the other side of Curt river

442
00:29:55,351 --> 00:29:58,031
bridge, I've played baseball. Here back in the day. But

443
00:29:58,031 --> 00:30:00,071
if you ask me exactly where, I couldn't tell you.

444
00:30:00,071 --> 00:30:02,795
Today? Because that was a long time ago. The walking

445
00:30:02,795 --> 00:30:05,875
path, I believe, is close to the red line that

446
00:30:05,875 --> 00:30:11,597
you've drawn on your map. Is that correct? Yes. And

447
00:30:11,597 --> 00:30:15,517
so if the city. I appreciate your solutions. I want

448
00:30:15,517 --> 00:30:17,583
to state that. I kind of like the idea of

449
00:30:17,583 --> 00:30:22,095
the privacy piece. And the concern about the buildings being

450
00:30:22,095 --> 00:30:24,295
too close to the houses and being closer to the

451
00:30:24,295 --> 00:30:27,055
other. Side. But if they ended up moving that path

452
00:30:27,055 --> 00:30:30,825
to allow for different roads to come in, Instead of

453
00:30:30,825 --> 00:30:34,447
one road in and out. That would be okay as

454
00:30:34,447 --> 00:30:36,047
well, right? You just want to make sure that you

455
00:30:36,047 --> 00:30:39,402
keep that walking. It's not only that, but you do

456
00:30:39,402 --> 00:30:42,482
have to look at the intersection of Toledo and Runle.

457
00:30:44,212 --> 00:30:45,652
There is one of the property owners lives right on

458
00:30:45,652 --> 00:30:49,704
the corner, and his driveway. Access a rundle as well

459
00:30:49,704 --> 00:30:53,904
as Toledo street. So then there's just basically his property.

460
00:30:53,904 --> 00:30:56,344
A little bit of space and then the walking path.

461
00:30:56,344 --> 00:30:59,775
So if you move that walking path, Too much further

462
00:30:59,775 --> 00:31:03,279
to the west. Then. It sort of encroaches. There's going

463
00:31:03,279 --> 00:31:07,253
to be a lot of car traffic. There's a crosswalk

464
00:31:07,253 --> 00:31:11,457
with the signal. At that intersection, and it's a busy

465
00:31:11,457 --> 00:31:13,537
road. We have ChartWell, which I think you need to

466
00:31:13,537 --> 00:31:16,297
keep in mind because there's a lot of Chartwell users

467
00:31:16,297 --> 00:31:20,177
in their motorized scooters or wheelchairs rather, that actually cross

468
00:31:20,177 --> 00:31:22,057
over on a regular basis and go up and down

469
00:31:22,057 --> 00:31:25,057
that pathway. We even have a lady who's dropped off

470
00:31:25,057 --> 00:31:28,417
by the handy bus. Who's blind, who has been used

471
00:31:28,417 --> 00:31:32,642
to walking on that. Path for quite some time. So

472
00:31:32,642 --> 00:31:34,282
it's a little bit concerning because it is a bit

473
00:31:34,282 --> 00:31:37,082
of a crunch space. If you will. Yeah, it is

474
00:31:37,082 --> 00:31:39,922
definitely really tight, and I know with site plan control,

475
00:31:39,922 --> 00:31:48,933
they'll start looking at all those pieces. if growth committee

476
00:31:48,933 --> 00:31:51,813
says yes and moves it to council to make the

477
00:31:51,813 --> 00:31:55,293
decision of whether we're going to sell this as surplus

478
00:31:55,293 --> 00:31:57,296
and then i really do appreciate You understanding that maybe.

479
00:31:56,211 --> 00:31:58,171
The neighbors and yourself would be more accepting if it

480
00:31:58,171 --> 00:32:00,891
was a bit smaller. So I really appreciate those comments.

481
00:32:00,891 --> 00:32:05,302
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Any further questions? Councilor

482
00:32:05,302 --> 00:32:13,266
Aguwal, please. Thank you. thank you chair When you said.

483
00:32:13,595 --> 00:32:19,182
Smaller density, smaller program plan. What are you envisioning there

484
00:32:19,182 --> 00:32:23,702
for? Well, given the neighborhood and the scope and mass

485
00:32:23,702 --> 00:32:26,982
of the neighborhood itself. We have mostly single family homes,

486
00:32:26,982 --> 00:32:30,622
bungalows, a couple of two stories like our house and

487
00:32:30,622 --> 00:32:33,262
our neighbor's house was two story, for example. And there

488
00:32:33,262 --> 00:32:36,302
are apartment buildings that I think the tallest one is

489
00:32:36,302 --> 00:32:39,526
five stories in the immediate area. Current river has some

490
00:32:39,526 --> 00:32:45,602
taller ones. But on that property. 200, 250. We're thinking,

491
00:32:45,602 --> 00:32:49,568
obviously, it depends on the design. Of the property. We'd

492
00:32:49,568 --> 00:32:52,888
like to keep at least that urban mid rise going

493
00:32:52,888 --> 00:32:58,152
any higher. Than that. Is inappropriate for that area. We

494
00:32:58,152 --> 00:33:02,707
obviously need building. I understand that. I live in Calgary.

495
00:33:02,707 --> 00:33:05,347
I went through the rezoning process there. I was on

496
00:33:05,347 --> 00:33:09,067
the board. Of our local Community association. I was on

497
00:33:09,067 --> 00:33:11,387
the development and planning committee. I took a course through

498
00:33:11,387 --> 00:33:14,227
the city. I have a certificate in planning. So I

499
00:33:14,227 --> 00:33:16,907
do know the ins and outs, and that experience can

500
00:33:16,907 --> 00:33:19,507
be used here. In Thunder bay, too, so you really

501
00:33:19,507 --> 00:33:21,827
have to look at. Is this the proper spot for

502
00:33:21,827 --> 00:33:25,898
any. Type of development like we're willing to give. We

503
00:33:25,898 --> 00:33:28,458
understand that there's a need, but a lot of your

504
00:33:28,458 --> 00:33:31,858
documents focus on the fact that buildings should be done

505
00:33:31,858 --> 00:33:35,018
in areas where there's services and amenities, and we just

506
00:33:35,018 --> 00:33:38,818
don't have that in current river. We don't. You can't

507
00:33:38,818 --> 00:33:44,046
walk along a rundle. There are no sidewalks. There's the

508
00:33:44,046 --> 00:33:46,446
active living corridor, and then when it gets to a

509
00:33:46,446 --> 00:33:49,206
sidewalk at Black Bay. You have to cross the street

510
00:33:49,206 --> 00:33:51,166
and get to the sidewalk there and then you have

511
00:33:51,166 --> 00:33:53,606
to cross the street again in order to get to

512
00:33:53,606 --> 00:33:57,867
the shopping area. It's poor planning. I'm sorry? It's poor

513
00:33:57,867 --> 00:34:01,347
urban planning. We should be. Putting people in areas where

514
00:34:01,347 --> 00:34:04,227
they can actually thrive. And if we're not going to

515
00:34:04,227 --> 00:34:08,827
increase and improve the infrastructure for sidewalks, for transit, and

516
00:34:08,827 --> 00:34:13,307
for cycling infrastructure, then we shouldn't be putting in a

517
00:34:13,307 --> 00:34:18,692
large amount of people. In that spot. Okay. Thank you.

518
00:34:18,692 --> 00:34:23,740
Thank you for that answer. I do appreciate. Your deep

519
00:34:23,740 --> 00:34:27,420
and thorough presentation with the details. Thank you very much.

520
00:34:27,420 --> 00:34:31,842
So. They do resign with me a lot. The walkability

521
00:34:31,842 --> 00:34:35,681
scales are important. And I thank you for all that

522
00:34:35,681 --> 00:34:40,418
information. You're welcome. Okay. Thank you so much. You may

523
00:34:40,418 --> 00:34:45,815
return. Clerk Walters, please. That same on the agenda. Correspondence

524
00:34:45,815 --> 00:34:48,735
received from Terrell Prince on November the 14th. Requesting to

525
00:34:48,735 --> 00:34:52,215
appear before the standing committee. Also, additional information relative to

526
00:34:52,215 --> 00:34:57,093
this deputation distributed on Friday, November the 20 eigth. Welcome,

527
00:34:57,093 --> 00:35:00,453
Ms. Prince. And again, you'll have ten minutes when you're

528
00:35:00,453 --> 00:35:08,754
ready. Thank you. Good afternoon, Mr. Mayor.

529
00:35:12,510 --> 00:35:16,497
City councilors, fellow citizens and neighbors. I am grateful that

530
00:35:16,497 --> 00:35:18,937
I have the opportunity to speak to you all today.

531
00:35:20,413 --> 00:35:23,173
My husband Dave and I bought our house on Toledo

532
00:35:23,173 --> 00:35:26,293
two years ago. And what made us decide? To live

533
00:35:26,293 --> 00:35:30,251
here was the quiet neighborhood. The beautiful green space and

534
00:35:30,251 --> 00:35:34,811
treeline behind our backyard and the easily accessible nature trails

535
00:35:34,811 --> 00:35:39,477
from Toledo street. This is such a special area, so

536
00:35:39,477 --> 00:35:43,077
quiet, so peaceful. We feel very privileged to be a

537
00:35:43,077 --> 00:35:46,705
part. Of it. In regards to the new development proposal.

538
00:35:48,376 --> 00:35:51,176
We are not against the idea of adding housing at

539
00:35:51,176 --> 00:35:54,736
791 or Rundle street as long as it is a

540
00:35:54,736 --> 00:35:57,776
good fit for the area and preserves as much of

541
00:35:57,776 --> 00:36:01,264
the green space as possible. For the benefit of the

542
00:36:01,264 --> 00:36:06,163
surrounding community. However, we are convinced that the proposed 600

543
00:36:06,163 --> 00:36:08,683
units is much too large in scale to allow a

544
00:36:08,683 --> 00:36:15,159
harmonious integration with the surrounding neighborhood. That being said, I

545
00:36:15,159 --> 00:36:18,399
am speaking today mainly about the need to keep a

546
00:36:18,399 --> 00:36:22,599
treelined green space. Corridor between the houses on Toledo and

547
00:36:22,599 --> 00:36:25,559
any new development. I would like to say a few

548
00:36:25,559 --> 00:36:29,039
words. About all the benefits. We have enjoyed having this

549
00:36:29,039 --> 00:36:34,527
green space with mature trees backing onto our property. These

550
00:36:34,527 --> 00:36:39,247
tall trees provide us with a natural privacy screen and

551
00:36:39,247 --> 00:36:42,647
beautiful scenery behind our property that we enjoy every day.

552
00:36:44,837 --> 00:36:47,677
The ambient noise of the wind moving through the leaves

553
00:36:47,677 --> 00:36:51,317
and branches and the great variety of birdsong. Provides a

554
00:36:51,317 --> 00:36:55,677
natural sound overlay that helps minimize the sound of cars

555
00:36:55,677 --> 00:36:59,917
and trucks from a rundle and the nearby highway. The

556
00:36:59,917 --> 00:37:04,454
trees also improve our air quality and provide shape. There

557
00:37:04,454 --> 00:37:08,271
is also always something new and interesting to see. As

558
00:37:08,271 --> 00:37:12,780
many birds and animals are always visiting. Nesting, feeding on

559
00:37:12,780 --> 00:37:17,340
berries and seeds or just passing through. We moved here

560
00:37:17,340 --> 00:37:20,300
because of our great love. For nature and our desire

561
00:37:20,300 --> 00:37:23,968
to live in harmony with it. When we saw the

562
00:37:23,968 --> 00:37:27,688
image the city provided of the proposed new development, we

563
00:37:27,688 --> 00:37:31,608
were frankly shocked by the invasive nature of its appearance.

564
00:37:31,608 --> 00:37:33,768
I know that it is being said that it is

565
00:37:33,768 --> 00:37:37,208
just a concept. But since this is all we had

566
00:37:37,208 --> 00:37:43,455
to go on, It appears to us that the developer

567
00:37:43,455 --> 00:37:46,215
plans to remove all the existing mature trees and put

568
00:37:46,215 --> 00:37:50,495
in a concrete perimeter populated by a few small, thinly

569
00:37:50,495 --> 00:37:54,255
spaced out evergreens that will likely take years to provide

570
00:37:54,255 --> 00:37:57,135
any kind of effective privacy screen for us and our

571
00:37:57,135 --> 00:38:01,833
neighbors. This loss of natural green space and privacy. Would

572
00:38:01,833 --> 00:38:05,182
also. Certainly negatively affect the value of our properties, and

573
00:38:05,182 --> 00:38:07,942
we would also lose most of the benefits that the

574
00:38:07,942 --> 00:38:12,471
current mature treeline offers us. It makes me think of

575
00:38:12,471 --> 00:38:15,911
that old Joni Mitchell song where she's saying they paved

576
00:38:15,911 --> 00:38:19,732
paradise and put up a parking lot. It popped into

577
00:38:19,732 --> 00:38:23,189
my head last night. We are asking the city to

578
00:38:23,189 --> 00:38:25,669
keep the tree lined trail that so many people use

579
00:38:25,669 --> 00:38:29,589
every day. Intact and preserve the tree line behind our

580
00:38:29,589 --> 00:38:32,749
fences that shield our yards and give us so much.

581
00:38:32,749 --> 00:38:37,892
Beauty. Happiness and peace of mind. More trees should be

582
00:38:37,892 --> 00:38:40,772
planted at the beginning of Toledo as well to fill

583
00:38:40,772 --> 00:38:43,652
in the gap and form a continuous tree line so

584
00:38:43,652 --> 00:38:46,132
that all of the homeowners can have privacy and a

585
00:38:46,132 --> 00:38:51,211
peaceful environment. We, the homeowners, are asking the city to

586
00:38:51,211 --> 00:38:56,411
ensure that any developer maintains a natural green space corridor

587
00:38:56,411 --> 00:38:59,811
easement between the affected properties on Toledo and the new

588
00:38:59,811 --> 00:39:03,731
housing this will provide us. All an effective privacy buffer

589
00:39:03,731 --> 00:39:08,677
zone. This and the preservation of the walking path. Will

590
00:39:08,677 --> 00:39:11,877
also help to integrate and harmonize any new mid rise

591
00:39:11,877 --> 00:39:15,077
build space with the quiet and peaceful character of the

592
00:39:15,077 --> 00:39:21,465
neighborhood. In our view, this would fulfill. Two of the

593
00:39:21,465 --> 00:39:26,497
city's stated objectives. Preserving green space and adding density to

594
00:39:26,497 --> 00:39:31,086
the area. This vital natural landscape will then continue to

595
00:39:31,086 --> 00:39:36,606
benefit wildlife, visitors and residents, old and new. Now and

596
00:39:36,606 --> 00:39:40,315
into the future. Thank you all for your time and

597
00:39:40,315 --> 00:39:45,228
consideration. Thank you so much for your deputation. Any questions?

598
00:39:48,459 --> 00:39:52,531
Say none. Thank you. You may return. Clerk Walters, please.

599
00:39:54,655 --> 00:39:58,729
Let's. Correspondence received from Ivan back on November the 14th

600
00:39:58,729 --> 00:40:08,717
requesting to appear before standing committee. Welcome, Mr. Beck.

601
00:40:08,717 --> 00:40:11,037
And again, when you're ready, you'll have ten minutes. Thank

602
00:40:11,037 --> 00:40:20,247
you. Thank you. Mayor Boschkov, counselors of the city of

603
00:40:20,247 --> 00:40:27,479
Thunder Bay, neighbors, friends and study administration. My name is

604
00:40:27,479 --> 00:40:33,076
Ivan Buck. I live at 408 Toledo Street. Before I

605
00:40:33,076 --> 00:40:35,916
retired, I was a secondary school teacher and a principal

606
00:40:35,916 --> 00:40:39,543
with 34 years of experience. I also was seconded to

607
00:40:39,543 --> 00:40:42,543
the ministry for four years to work in curriculum development

608
00:40:42,543 --> 00:40:46,743
at the secondary schools. In 2007, my wife and I

609
00:40:46,743 --> 00:40:50,863
purchased our house on Toledo street. We were very excited.

610
00:40:50,863 --> 00:40:54,533
About the green space behind our property. And the price

611
00:40:54,533 --> 00:40:58,721
reflected this feature. It is the only investment that we

612
00:40:58,721 --> 00:41:04,577
have. Like most citizens in Thunder Bay, the largest purchase

613
00:41:04,577 --> 00:41:07,177
that will ever make us is the purchase of their

614
00:41:07,177 --> 00:41:12,395
home. That applies to everyone in the room. The atmosphere

615
00:41:12,395 --> 00:41:16,715
created by the green belt overlooking our backyard has created

616
00:41:16,715 --> 00:41:20,755
many happy memories for us. For example, our granddaughter chose

617
00:41:20,755 --> 00:41:25,134
our backyard for her wedding ceremony. This kind of happy

618
00:41:25,134 --> 00:41:29,701
memory will not happen. If an apartment building complex replaces

619
00:41:29,701 --> 00:41:34,412
the privacy provided by the green buffer zone, If you

620
00:41:34,412 --> 00:41:37,252
become aware that your home investment will take a significant

621
00:41:37,252 --> 00:41:42,175
loss of a political decision, You have become as upset

622
00:41:42,175 --> 00:41:46,080
as my wife and I are. That also applies to

623
00:41:46,080 --> 00:41:50,718
everyone in this room. I have witnessed current river homeowners

624
00:41:50,718 --> 00:41:54,198
move to tears when talking about the impact this decision

625
00:41:54,198 --> 00:41:59,398
will have on them. Presently. The zoning bylaw protects this

626
00:41:59,398 --> 00:42:05,547
beautiful natural environment and wetlands from development, exploitation. This popular

627
00:42:05,547 --> 00:42:08,827
area is owned as community, and our current river community

628
00:42:08,827 --> 00:42:12,474
lives up to that definition. The use of the pathway,

629
00:42:12,474 --> 00:42:15,314
we call it Cherry Lane, by the way, is extremely

630
00:42:15,314 --> 00:42:20,394
popular with current river citizens and they are friendly and

631
00:42:20,394 --> 00:42:29,199
happy lot. Dogs, families walking, bikers, joggers, citizens with disabilities,

632
00:42:29,199 --> 00:42:22,716
including the blind and those in electrical devices skiers. Dog.

633
00:42:34,588 --> 00:42:38,068
School students and summer cam groups all utilize a natural

634
00:42:38,068 --> 00:42:42,468
environment of that pathway and green belt. My wife, Cora,

635
00:42:42,468 --> 00:42:44,788
and I have many memories of biking walk in the

636
00:42:44,788 --> 00:42:48,228
many tributary trails along the pathway over the years. You

637
00:42:48,228 --> 00:42:50,548
never know what you're going to meet. A fox, a

638
00:42:50,548 --> 00:42:53,468
deer, a wolf, a raccoon, a bear, maybe even a

639
00:42:53,468 --> 00:42:57,244
skunk or two. There's an incredible variety of birds. Some

640
00:42:57,244 --> 00:43:01,257
live here and some are just passing through. This will

641
00:43:01,257 --> 00:43:05,057
all be gone if the pathway disappears and you do

642
00:43:05,057 --> 00:43:10,269
something to the natural environment. It is incomprehensible to me

643
00:43:10,269 --> 00:43:14,309
that the city is considering eliminating the zoning bylaw that

644
00:43:14,309 --> 00:43:17,389
protects the use of this land for the everyday taxpaying

645
00:43:17,389 --> 00:43:21,389
citizens so that they can unlock the final housing and

646
00:43:21,389 --> 00:43:27,669
accelerator. Advance a $5.88 million for 2027 again I say

647
00:43:27,669 --> 00:43:30,508
this? Would not be an issue if the proposal had

648
00:43:30,508 --> 00:43:35,376
a personal effect on those creating it. If you truly

649
00:43:35,376 --> 00:43:40,324
believe this smart growth action plan has a value. Please

650
00:43:40,324 --> 00:43:44,644
at least consider a proposal that would maintain the pathway

651
00:43:44,644 --> 00:43:46,964
and a green buffer zone for the citizens who live

652
00:43:46,964 --> 00:43:50,764
here and care deeply about the health and well being

653
00:43:50,764 --> 00:43:54,688
of their community. On the other hand, if you really

654
00:43:54,688 --> 00:43:59,461
want a smart growth action plan, Please consider recommendations and

655
00:43:59,461 --> 00:44:04,421
Professor Libya Dematio's essay titled thunder B is missing his

656
00:44:04,421 --> 00:44:09,781
chance for strategic urban density. The article is honest, factual,

657
00:44:09,781 --> 00:44:13,381
and logical. That paves the way for valid strategic house

658
00:44:13,381 --> 00:44:17,542
building density. Levy, of Domario is a professor of economics

659
00:44:17,542 --> 00:44:22,307
at Lake University. And Professor Demadio's article appears in Northern

660
00:44:22,307 --> 00:44:28,996
Economist 2.0, November the 13th 2025. Mayor Baskoff and concerts

661
00:44:28,996 --> 00:44:32,116
of Thunder Bay. It is my belief that you are

662
00:44:32,116 --> 00:44:36,916
elected to assist. In the health, safety and well being

663
00:44:36,916 --> 00:44:42,014
of the citizens of Thunder Bay. Please support the concerns

664
00:44:42,014 --> 00:44:46,753
of your taxpayers. Thank you for listening to me. Thank

665
00:44:46,753 --> 00:44:51,965
you so much, Mr. Buck. Any questions? Councilor Atrini, please.

666
00:44:54,098 --> 00:44:55,978
Thank you, chair. I just have a question later for

667
00:44:55,978 --> 00:44:57,898
administration, if you could put me on that. List. Thank

668
00:44:57,898 --> 00:45:02,154
you. ten four okay thank you so much sir Don.

669
00:45:02,154 --> 00:45:11,718
Yes. Thank you. Clerk Walters, please. Chair. Then it's time.

670
00:45:11,718 --> 00:45:14,438
On the agenda is correspondence received from Stephanie Petroni on

671
00:45:14,438 --> 00:45:24,435
November the 16th requesting to appear before standing committee. Good

672
00:45:24,435 --> 00:45:27,235
evening, Mr. Petroni. Thanks for coming forward. And when you're

673
00:45:27,235 --> 00:45:29,715
ready, you'll. Have ten minutes. Can you hear me okay,

674
00:45:29,715 --> 00:45:31,435
Ed, just come a little closer if you can. Okay?

675
00:45:31,435 --> 00:45:32,235
It's great. Thank you.

676
00:45:42,346 --> 00:45:45,746
Good afternoon. My thanks to mayor and council and city

677
00:45:45,746 --> 00:45:50,026
staff for accommodating today's. Deputations. My comments are related to

678
00:45:50,026 --> 00:45:57,444
the proposed development at 791 or. First, I would like

679
00:45:57,444 --> 00:46:01,004
to address messaging issued by city staff to the media

680
00:46:01,004 --> 00:46:04,564
that implies dissenting. Opinion regarding this proposal are rooted in

681
00:46:04,564 --> 00:46:13,068
personal feelings. this is an obvious red herring which foments

682
00:46:13,068 --> 00:46:16,508
the villainization of concerned citizens sets up a play for

683
00:46:16,508 --> 00:46:20,628
the nimby card and diminishes the importance of concerns brought

684
00:46:20,628 --> 00:46:20,028
forward As you have heard from some of my neighbors

685
00:46:20,028 --> 00:46:23,988
already, our concerns are not self serving. Rather, they are

686
00:46:23,988 --> 00:46:29,004
valid, intelligent and proactive. It is indicated within the terms

687
00:46:29,004 --> 00:46:31,404
of reference for the mayor's task force on building more

688
00:46:31,404 --> 00:46:35,044
homes that on August 18, 2023, the city submitted an

689
00:46:35,044 --> 00:46:38,324
application to the Housing Accelerator fund that set an aggressive

690
00:46:38,324 --> 00:46:40,964
target for the development of 2200 units in three years.

691
00:46:42,759 --> 00:46:47,200
In a November 13 interview with. TB Newswatch city staff

692
00:46:47,200 --> 00:46:50,960
indicated that the pressure is on. The city must build

693
00:46:50,960 --> 00:46:56,040
1755 housing units by February 2027 to meet conditions of

694
00:46:56,040 --> 00:46:59,640
the Housing Accelerator Fund, and they're behind by 1200 units.

695
00:47:00,881 --> 00:47:03,441
Falling short of this target loses the city almost $6

696
00:47:03,441 --> 00:47:06,921
million in funding. And with the clock ticking. The city's

697
00:47:06,921 --> 00:47:12,145
priority is high density housing proposals and fast. The city's

698
00:47:12,145 --> 00:47:16,425
entertainment of a monster sized eastern block tenement. Stylized 600

699
00:47:16,425 --> 00:47:18,585
unit development poised to drop in the middle of the

700
00:47:18,585 --> 00:47:21,985
Orundal green space like Andre the giant coming off. The

701
00:47:21,985 --> 00:47:25,225
top ropes underpins the urgency in which the city is

702
00:47:25,225 --> 00:47:29,945
pushing through high density proposals. The message is clear. As

703
00:47:29,945 --> 00:47:35,023
many units as possible. Anywhere. I have a few concerns.

704
00:47:36,703 --> 00:47:39,263
High density housing may be suitable in mixed use neighborhoods,

705
00:47:39,263 --> 00:47:42,103
but it is not suitable in neighborhoods characterized by single

706
00:47:42,103 --> 00:47:45,423
family homes and without services or businesses within walking distance.

707
00:47:46,732 --> 00:47:50,492
Furthermore, high density also means high population density, and in

708
00:47:50,492 --> 00:47:53,612
non mixed use neighborhoods, this has the potential to increase

709
00:47:53,612 --> 00:47:56,572
the victimization as well as the criminalization of people living

710
00:47:56,572 --> 00:48:01,604
in these areas. High population density, particularly when rapid and

711
00:48:01,604 --> 00:48:04,444
in small areas, can lead to a range of numerous

712
00:48:04,444 --> 00:48:10,726
consequences. Including social. Worth noting. 600 units. Could mean 600

713
00:48:10,726 --> 00:48:14,166
to maybe 2000 new neighbors all at once. That is

714
00:48:14,166 --> 00:48:18,526
a current river population increase. Of twelve to 42%, all

715
00:48:18,526 --> 00:48:22,526
behind eleven homes on just 3 ha, or 0.6%. Of

716
00:48:22,526 --> 00:48:25,815
all of current river. How will such an increase impact

717
00:48:25,815 --> 00:48:31,935
education, transportation, safety, environmental pollution, and neighborhood amenities? What will

718
00:48:31,935 --> 00:48:34,815
the social impact upon our neighborhood be we don't know.

719
00:48:36,270 --> 00:48:39,070
I encourage city council to direct that a social impact

720
00:48:39,070 --> 00:48:42,550
study be conducted before committing current river to high density

721
00:48:42,550 --> 00:48:49,819
development prior to rezoning. In 1992, Claudi Garten Elementary School,

722
00:48:49,819 --> 00:48:54,718
a landmark and current river, went up in flames. Bystanders

723
00:48:54,718 --> 00:48:57,758
reported that it took 30 minutes for firefighters to get

724
00:48:57,758 --> 00:49:01,438
water on the blaze. What was the hold up. Inadequate

725
00:49:01,438 --> 00:49:05,278
water pressure from fire hydrants to the hoses. Any number

726
00:49:05,278 --> 00:49:08,038
of new homes in the proposed development area will impact

727
00:49:08,038 --> 00:49:11,722
the residential water system. At this time, I am in

728
00:49:11,722 --> 00:49:15,602
correspondence with city staff to acquire information regarding water pressure

729
00:49:15,602 --> 00:49:20,322
readings for residential usage and fire hydrant operation as well

730
00:49:20,322 --> 00:49:22,962
as water main size which delivers our clean water for

731
00:49:22,962 --> 00:49:26,513
this area. I am unsure if the city has taken

732
00:49:26,513 --> 00:49:29,753
into consideration these issues, which are not just about convenience.

733
00:49:29,753 --> 00:49:34,296
But also safety. Regardless of current water pressure readings, a

734
00:49:34,296 --> 00:49:37,256
high density development will have an impact on water psi

735
00:49:37,256 --> 00:49:41,096
in the neighborhood prior to rezoning. I encourage the city

736
00:49:41,096 --> 00:49:44,176
to undertake a water pressure study of the area around

737
00:49:44,176 --> 00:49:48,016
791 rundle, which should include the consideration that a minimum

738
00:49:48,016 --> 00:49:51,976
of no less than 600 new neighbors and potentially hundreds

739
00:49:51,976 --> 00:49:53,948
more. Would add to the burden of the current water

740
00:49:53,948 --> 00:49:58,888
system. In 2012, the city reconstructed a two lane rural

741
00:49:58,888 --> 00:50:02,048
road, which is now celebrated as the Arundal Hudson active

742
00:50:02,048 --> 00:50:06,048
living corridor connecting residents to parks and trails along an

743
00:50:06,048 --> 00:50:10,448
improved road system featuring traffic calming measures to ensure usability

744
00:50:10,448 --> 00:50:16,389
and safety for pedestrians and cyclists. The city's 2017. Walkability

745
00:50:16,389 --> 00:50:20,429
and pedestrian safety report features the Orundal Hudson corridor as

746
00:50:20,429 --> 00:50:23,669
part of a larger strategic plan to increase the vitality

747
00:50:23,669 --> 00:50:29,037
and activity of Thunder Bay residents. Establishing 600 new homes,

748
00:50:29,037 --> 00:50:32,477
or even just 100 new homes in the small area

749
00:50:32,477 --> 00:50:35,437
not within walking distance. To any major service or business

750
00:50:35,437 --> 00:50:38,877
will increase the number of vehicles along the corridor. This

751
00:50:38,877 --> 00:50:42,557
raises safety. Concerns for pedestrians and cyclists and will contribute

752
00:50:42,557 --> 00:50:47,666
to traffic congestion and flow challenges, especially during. Peak traffic

753
00:50:47,666 --> 00:50:52,559
hours. As a minor artery. Traffic congestion will also contribute

754
00:50:52,559 --> 00:50:56,553
to traffic density. And my concern is not just convenience

755
00:50:56,553 --> 00:51:00,393
for vehicular travel, but also for the physical risk. To

756
00:51:00,393 --> 00:51:05,233
walkers, joggers, cyclists, moms pushing strollers, school age children and

757
00:51:05,233 --> 00:51:09,193
youth, dog walkers. People with mobility challenges and users of

758
00:51:09,193 --> 00:51:12,553
wheelchairs and scooters, all of whom I've seen along this

759
00:51:12,553 --> 00:51:17,209
corridor frequently and in numbers. D. Daily. I encourage the

760
00:51:17,209 --> 00:51:21,089
city to undertake a traffic study prior to rezoning for

761
00:51:21,089 --> 00:51:25,329
the purposes of identifying road capacity, especially with regard to

762
00:51:25,329 --> 00:51:29,849
traffic volume, congestion, density and flow, as well as increased

763
00:51:29,849 --> 00:51:35,208
risk to pedestrian and cyclists. Without enough measurable data to

764
00:51:35,208 --> 00:51:38,728
ensure that such a development will not have serious consequences

765
00:51:38,728 --> 00:51:42,488
in current river, it would be reckless to approve this

766
00:51:42,488 --> 00:51:47,326
proposal. I am not indifferent to the pressing need for

767
00:51:47,326 --> 00:51:51,646
housing in Thunder Bay, especially affordable housing. When I was

768
00:51:51,646 --> 00:51:54,246
a young mother. I was grateful for the rent gear

769
00:51:54,246 --> 00:51:56,686
to income, housing. I was able to secure while getting

770
00:51:56,686 --> 00:52:02,108
back on my feet and returning to university. However, we

771
00:52:02,108 --> 00:52:05,308
have a proposed development with a huge footprint in a

772
00:52:05,308 --> 00:52:09,927
very small space and in a very unique neighborhood. The

773
00:52:09,927 --> 00:52:15,567
National Collaborating center for Environmental Health outlines several best practices

774
00:52:15,567 --> 00:52:20,007
for developing high density housing developing in a green space

775
00:52:20,007 --> 00:52:24,157
is not one of them. In fact. NCC ECE states

776
00:52:24,157 --> 00:52:27,957
that existing open green and blue spaces should be protected

777
00:52:27,957 --> 00:52:32,117
and utilized as these spaces have many natural, positive impacts

778
00:52:32,117 --> 00:52:35,277
on an individual's health and well being and promote the

779
00:52:35,277 --> 00:52:39,717
health of our natural environment. We all know this. It

780
00:52:39,717 --> 00:52:45,488
is not revelatory. Now. I'll get personal. I moved to

781
00:52:45,488 --> 00:52:49,725
Thunder Bay in 2017. Unfamiliar with the city and not

782
00:52:49,725 --> 00:52:54,445
knowing anybody. I spent my weekends deliberately getting lost, eager

783
00:52:54,445 --> 00:52:58,718
to discover my new home. To my disappointment, I discovered

784
00:52:58,718 --> 00:53:04,278
many streets lined with dilapidated buildings, derelict homes, neighborhoods surrounded

785
00:53:04,278 --> 00:53:08,158
by businesses and industry and all within a mostly treeless

786
00:53:08,158 --> 00:53:11,678
community, it was difficult to find visual beauty in thunder.

787
00:53:11,678 --> 00:53:14,158
Bay. And I surmised that it was to be found

788
00:53:14,158 --> 00:53:16,558
only when turning away from it. To face the view

789
00:53:16,558 --> 00:53:20,306
of. Lake superior or the boreal forest. But then I

790
00:53:20,306 --> 00:53:24,626
found current river and this calm and charming. Neighborhood full

791
00:53:24,626 --> 00:53:28,306
of trees, natural beauty, and all creatures of fur and

792
00:53:28,306 --> 00:53:31,786
feather felt like home. And so. It has become that

793
00:53:31,786 --> 00:53:35,466
for me and my family since 2019. But this neighborhood

794
00:53:35,466 --> 00:53:38,290
isn't just for residents of current. River. It is for

795
00:53:38,290 --> 00:53:41,330
all of Thunder Bay, and many community members visit current

796
00:53:41,330 --> 00:53:44,490
river to catch their breath and access the beautiful trails

797
00:53:44,490 --> 00:53:48,730
located along Boulevard Lake, the LPH grounds and the path

798
00:53:48,730 --> 00:53:51,570
through the green space that we recently have come to

799
00:53:51,570 --> 00:53:56,912
known as 791 Arundel. We can have a different vision

800
00:53:56,912 --> 00:54:01,293
for this green space than what is being proposed. We

801
00:54:01,293 --> 00:54:05,010
can create more paved trails that connect with Boulevard. And

802
00:54:05,010 --> 00:54:09,897
paved trails increase accessibility for people with mobility issues. I've

803
00:54:09,897 --> 00:54:14,777
seen many older neighbors crossing from Chartwells, the Chartwell residents,

804
00:54:14,777 --> 00:54:18,017
to access the paved trail. We can enhance the beauty

805
00:54:18,017 --> 00:54:20,577
within it by planting more trees and in stating park.

806
00:54:20,577 --> 00:54:24,617
Amenities like benches, maybe a water feature. And because we

807
00:54:24,617 --> 00:54:27,177
are meant to be stewards of the land. Maybe we

808
00:54:27,177 --> 00:54:30,311
could even add a few bat boxes and bird. Boxes.

809
00:54:31,387 --> 00:54:35,809
This green space is not. An abandoned lot or bushy

810
00:54:35,809 --> 00:54:40,089
corner that people in our neighborhood just drive by this

811
00:54:40,089 --> 00:54:42,937
small piece. Of land is held. In the generational memory,

812
00:54:42,937 --> 00:54:45,629
I'm almost. 1 minute. Sorry. Just give you heads up.

813
00:54:45,629 --> 00:54:48,469
Thank you. Carry on. You said 1 minute left. Yeah.

814
00:54:48,469 --> 00:54:51,429
Thank you. This small piece of the green space is

815
00:54:51,429 --> 00:54:54,869
not an abandoned lot or bushy corner. That people in

816
00:54:54,869 --> 00:54:58,527
our neighborhood just drive by. This small piece of land

817
00:54:58,527 --> 00:55:01,647
is held in the generational memory of all community members

818
00:55:01,647 --> 00:55:05,567
in thunder. Bay. People have gathered here, children have played

819
00:55:05,567 --> 00:55:08,407
here, and many have escaped here, and still they do.

820
00:55:09,787 --> 00:55:12,907
This place is worth protecting. When we lose our green

821
00:55:12,907 --> 00:55:17,427
spaces, we lose it forever. And I also know this

822
00:55:17,427 --> 00:55:21,707
development spreads, it won't just be the loss of this

823
00:55:21,707 --> 00:55:26,036
screen space. There will be more to lose. I encourage

824
00:55:26,036 --> 00:55:30,156
mayor and council to retain this property for community use,

825
00:55:30,156 --> 00:55:33,196
just as it has been used. For generations. Thank you.

826
00:55:34,931 --> 00:55:37,371
Thank you so much, Ms. Petroni. Are there any questions

827
00:55:37,371 --> 00:55:42,522
at all? Just quickly, are you in favor of a

828
00:55:42,522 --> 00:55:45,482
smaller development at all or just no development at all?

829
00:55:45,482 --> 00:55:50,540
No development. Okay. Thank you so much. Your worship, please.

830
00:55:53,490 --> 00:55:59,678
I guess. You've just asked a question. There's no level

831
00:55:59,678 --> 00:56:06,525
of construction at all. Single family or anything that. Would

832
00:56:06,525 --> 00:56:09,325
I feel there are many suitable places in Thunder Bay

833
00:56:09,325 --> 00:56:12,165
that are not in a green space. Where those needs

834
00:56:12,165 --> 00:56:16,995
could be achieved, and I would encourage city staff. To

835
00:56:16,995 --> 00:56:20,675
continue looking for more suitable locations rather than a green

836
00:56:20,675 --> 00:56:24,115
space that has been used for generations. By the community

837
00:56:24,115 --> 00:56:27,590
members of Thunder Bay. My second question deals with you

838
00:56:27,590 --> 00:56:31,270
mentioned water pressure. How long have you had this issue

839
00:56:31,270 --> 00:56:36,811
and has there been any attempts? To address it. My

840
00:56:36,811 --> 00:56:39,531
interest in water pressure is knowing what the current water

841
00:56:39,531 --> 00:56:43,533
pressure is around the proposed area. I think that is

842
00:56:43,533 --> 00:56:48,564
something that we need to consider before. We fast track

843
00:56:48,564 --> 00:56:51,684
proposal of that size, or any size for that matter.

844
00:56:51,684 --> 00:56:54,137
And this is. What I'm looking to the city for

845
00:56:54,137 --> 00:56:58,137
is more information about the water pressure for residential use

846
00:56:58,137 --> 00:57:01,377
as well as hydrants. Thank you for that. Thank you,

847
00:57:01,377 --> 00:57:06,815
chair. Thank you so much. Thank you. Can return. Clark

848
00:57:06,815 --> 00:57:11,695
Walters, please, let's. Correspondence received from Cody Lane on November

849
00:57:11,695 --> 00:57:21,678
19 requesting to appear before. Standing committee. Welcome, Mr. Lee,

850
00:57:21,678 --> 00:57:23,558
and thanks for coming forward. And again, you'll have ten

851
00:57:23,558 --> 00:57:25,598
minutes and I'll give you a heads up when you

852
00:57:25,598 --> 00:57:32,015
hit nine minutes. Okay. Thank you. Thanks. Good evening. I'd

853
00:57:32,015 --> 00:57:34,855
like to thank Mayor Boschkoff, the growth standing committee and

854
00:57:34,855 --> 00:57:38,895
city administration. For listening to my deputation tonight. I'm giving

855
00:57:38,895 --> 00:57:41,895
my deputation tonight in support of the surplus lands proposal

856
00:57:41,895 --> 00:57:45,029
that is before the committee. Ultimately, I would like to

857
00:57:45,029 --> 00:57:49,509
see the growth standing committee endorse the proposal. Counsel ultimately

858
00:57:49,509 --> 00:57:51,949
declare these land surplus. Can you just move a little

859
00:57:51,949 --> 00:57:56,614
bit? Thanks and do the required rezonings that are necessary

860
00:57:56,614 --> 00:58:00,894
to develop these lands for medium to high density residential.

861
00:58:00,894 --> 00:58:03,454
I believe this proposal will help with housing and rental

862
00:58:03,454 --> 00:58:06,574
affordability as well as the sustainable growth of the city.

863
00:58:08,303 --> 00:58:11,023
Some background about myself. 25 years old, and I just

864
00:58:11,023 --> 00:58:13,263
moved to this city this year. Or moved. Back to

865
00:58:13,263 --> 00:58:15,383
the city after living in the country for 13 years.

866
00:58:16,817 --> 00:58:19,217
Currently, I rent a one bedroom apartment in Northwood for

867
00:58:19,217 --> 00:58:23,017
1350 a month, and according to the CMHC, the average

868
00:58:23,017 --> 00:58:25,937
rent in the city for a primary rental as of

869
00:58:25,937 --> 00:58:29,977
2024 is 1359. So I like to consider myself the

870
00:58:29,977 --> 00:58:34,287
average renter in this city. Some history. When my family

871
00:58:34,287 --> 00:58:37,567
left this city in 2012, my father was paying $500

872
00:58:37,567 --> 00:58:40,127
a month. To rent a two bedroom home in current

873
00:58:40,127 --> 00:58:43,959
river. Now that was a low rent for the time,

874
00:58:43,959 --> 00:58:47,639
even for especially for a house. However, that affordability allowed

875
00:58:47,639 --> 00:58:52,039
my father to put me an extracurricular activities. Save up

876
00:58:52,039 --> 00:58:55,853
for a vehicle. Go on the occasional vacation and eventually

877
00:58:55,853 --> 00:58:58,053
save up for a house. And if that rent were

878
00:58:58,053 --> 00:59:00,493
two three times what it were, I would be living

879
00:59:00,493 --> 00:59:03,628
a very different life right now. So you can imagine

880
00:59:03,628 --> 00:59:05,628
my surprise when I wanted to move back to this

881
00:59:05,628 --> 00:59:08,828
city and I find that $500 a month doesn't even

882
00:59:08,828 --> 00:59:11,868
buy your room in somebody's house anymore. I paid two

883
00:59:11,868 --> 00:59:13,988
and a half times as much to live in half

884
00:59:13,988 --> 00:59:17,188
the space my family and I did back in 2012,

885
00:59:17,188 --> 00:59:19,708
if I wanted to live in my childhood home, I

886
00:59:19,708 --> 00:59:22,468
would be paying about $2,000 a month, and this is

887
00:59:22,468 --> 00:59:24,930
backed up by the. CMHC data, which shows in the

888
00:59:24,930 --> 00:59:27,210
last ten years, the average rent has gone of about

889
00:59:27,210 --> 00:59:33,588
57%. Inflation in that time period was 30%. So I

890
00:59:33,588 --> 00:59:36,948
asked what changed, and I guess the better. Question to

891
00:59:36,948 --> 00:59:41,544
ask is what didn't change? So between 2024 and 1990,

892
00:59:41,544 --> 00:59:43,664
which is the furthest back I could get the numbers

893
00:59:43,664 --> 00:59:46,704
to. Go. So the 34 year period, there was a

894
00:59:46,704 --> 00:59:51,264
net gain of 447 primary rental units. This is my

895
00:59:51,264 --> 00:59:55,024
interpretation of the data. I'm sure administration can look into

896
00:59:55,024 --> 00:59:58,800
it further. But I can see that when I drive

897
00:59:58,800 --> 01:00:00,920
around town, I can see that in my apartment that

898
01:00:00,920 --> 01:00:03,560
was built in the, across the street that were built

899
01:00:03,560 --> 01:00:06,560
in the most of the other apartments that were built

900
01:00:06,560 --> 01:00:09,360
in the last century. So at some point, this city

901
01:00:09,360 --> 01:00:13,160
built medium to high density residential. And then stopped in

902
01:00:13,160 --> 01:00:15,720
favor of low density residential. And it's why I believe

903
01:00:15,720 --> 01:00:18,821
we're in the housing. Crisis that we are and why

904
01:00:18,821 --> 01:00:21,621
the city is seeing an increasing infrastructure deficit every year.

905
01:00:23,338 --> 01:00:24,858
So I hope you can see my excitement with this

906
01:00:24,858 --> 01:00:28,738
proposal, because to me, this represents 100 years. Of apartments

907
01:00:28,738 --> 01:00:31,098
if we were to continue building them at our existing

908
01:00:31,098 --> 01:00:34,247
rate. And I believe that is going to have major

909
01:00:34,247 --> 01:00:38,967
ramifications for housing and rental affordability. As well as growing.

910
01:00:40,472 --> 01:00:44,678
The city sustainably. So I'll start with housing affordability. I

911
01:00:44,678 --> 01:00:49,198
believe the number I've seen, quote is 1385 units, but

912
01:00:49,198 --> 01:00:53,415
that may be reduced. Now. If we build that many

913
01:00:53,415 --> 01:00:56,375
units, then any senior that wants to downsize out of

914
01:00:56,375 --> 01:00:58,615
a home. Will have the ability to do so if

915
01:00:58,615 --> 01:01:01,295
they have the financial means, whether it be the equity

916
01:01:01,295 --> 01:01:03,935
in their house or investments. They can move into a

917
01:01:03,935 --> 01:01:06,575
new modern apartment like this if they want. To downsize,

918
01:01:06,575 --> 01:01:09,255
and that frees up their family home. Now, I may

919
01:01:09,255 --> 01:01:11,815
not be able to afford that family home. But if.

920
01:01:12,660 --> 01:01:14,380
A family wants to upgrade into that, or a couple

921
01:01:14,380 --> 01:01:17,500
wants to upgrade. I can afford their starter. Home. So

922
01:01:17,500 --> 01:01:20,340
I see it that if we build these medium high

923
01:01:20,340 --> 01:01:23,940
density apartments and a senior downsizes you're freeing up two

924
01:01:23,940 --> 01:01:26,740
units of housing that you didn't need to build. And

925
01:01:26,740 --> 01:01:30,045
we are obviously not building houses fast enough. When it

926
01:01:30,045 --> 01:01:32,885
comes to rental affordability. If you add 100 years worth

927
01:01:32,885 --> 01:01:36,405
of supply, that increases the vacancy rate no longer. We're

928
01:01:36,405 --> 01:01:39,725
not sitting at 3% vacancy rate anymore, and it's. A

929
01:01:39,725 --> 01:01:42,885
lot harder for your landlord to justify high rent increases.

930
01:01:44,414 --> 01:01:47,810
In the last three years alone. I have on file

931
01:01:47,810 --> 01:01:52,364
here. In 2022, the average rent went up seven and

932
01:01:52,364 --> 01:01:56,644
a half percent. 2023, seven and a half percent 2024

933
01:01:56,644 --> 01:02:01,124
8.6% if you increase the vacancy rate by building this

934
01:02:01,124 --> 01:02:05,844
many apartments, it's harder to justify those rent increases. And

935
01:02:05,844 --> 01:02:08,444
if a landlord is sitting on a vacant rental. They

936
01:02:08,444 --> 01:02:12,300
either have to. Reduce their price to justify or to

937
01:02:12,300 --> 01:02:16,300
attract a tenant, or they have to renovate to justify.

938
01:02:16,300 --> 01:02:19,260
What they're charging. That's how I see that this project

939
01:02:19,260 --> 01:02:22,940
or this proposal will. Help with rental affordability. Lastly, I'd

940
01:02:22,940 --> 01:02:27,671
like to tie everything into sustainable growth. This proposal frees

941
01:02:27,671 --> 01:02:31,071
up housing that already exists. That means you're not building

942
01:02:31,071 --> 01:02:34,111
new low. Density residential on the outskirts of the city

943
01:02:34,111 --> 01:02:38,471
where you have to run new roads, water, sewer, stormwater

944
01:02:38,471 --> 01:02:41,631
ems and fire because the houses you freed up are

945
01:02:41,631 --> 01:02:44,631
already connected to services. Now there's. Going to be infrastructure

946
01:02:44,631 --> 01:02:47,703
costs associated with building these new apartment. Apartments, but because

947
01:02:47,703 --> 01:02:50,743
they are adjacent, already existing services, they're going to be

948
01:02:50,743 --> 01:02:53,303
built that infrastructure. Cost is going to be a fraction

949
01:02:53,303 --> 01:02:55,343
of the cost of what it would be if you

950
01:02:55,343 --> 01:02:58,183
took 200 people and put them in 200 homes, as

951
01:02:58,183 --> 01:03:03,739
opposed to. One singular unit. Lastly, I just want to

952
01:03:03,739 --> 01:03:07,739
talk about how this proposal is self sustaining. To quote

953
01:03:07,739 --> 01:03:10,579
the city manager, who brought up in a tv news

954
01:03:10,579 --> 01:03:14,139
article a suburban area has a tax revenue of ten.

955
01:03:16,683 --> 01:03:18,723
Thousand dollars per acre. I believe this is on a

956
01:03:18,723 --> 01:03:22,603
yearly basis for 48 units, whereas a multi unit area

957
01:03:22,603 --> 01:03:28,363
has $100,000 per acre tax revenue. So by building proposals

958
01:03:28,363 --> 01:03:31,163
like this, we are increasing the tax revenues of the

959
01:03:31,163 --> 01:03:34,763
city and making the city more self sustaining. Lastly, there's.

960
01:03:34,763 --> 01:03:37,518
The incentive of the housing acc. Accelerator fund that if

961
01:03:37,518 --> 01:03:41,518
this proposal goes through, we will receive the 5.88 million

962
01:03:41,518 --> 01:03:45,078
that can be used to revitalize the lapidated and vacant

963
01:03:45,078 --> 01:03:49,798
buildings in the downtown cores infill as well as potentially

964
01:03:49,798 --> 01:03:54,556
use that money to subsidize affordable housing. So, in conclusion,

965
01:03:54,556 --> 01:03:56,196
I would like to be able to rent and save

966
01:03:56,196 --> 01:03:59,116
for a home. I see. This proposal as allowing me

967
01:03:59,116 --> 01:04:03,589
to do that by freeing up housing supply. I see.

968
01:04:03,589 --> 01:04:05,829
It helps me by allowing me to save up as

969
01:04:05,829 --> 01:04:09,229
a renter by making rents. More affordable. And lastly, if

970
01:04:09,229 --> 01:04:11,229
you want me to make a 30 year commitment to

971
01:04:11,229 --> 01:04:14,629
this city as a taxpayer. I need to see that

972
01:04:14,629 --> 01:04:17,189
my property taxes aren't going to go up every year

973
01:04:17,189 --> 01:04:20,589
by huge amounts because the city isn't growing sustainably and

974
01:04:20,589 --> 01:04:25,271
those taxes need to come. For me personally. I would

975
01:04:25,271 --> 01:04:29,533
rather. See more self sustaining proposals like this one, because

976
01:04:29,533 --> 01:04:32,453
we simply just are not attracting industry and commercial fast

977
01:04:32,453 --> 01:04:36,050
enough. And ultimately, I would like to own a home.

978
01:04:38,756 --> 01:04:40,636
And not see my tax bill go up by large

979
01:04:40,636 --> 01:04:43,819
amounts every year, so thank you very much. Thank you,

980
01:04:43,819 --> 01:04:49,504
Mr. Lane. Is there? Your worship, please. Thank you, speaker.

981
01:04:53,739 --> 01:04:57,459
Your presentation confirms that you know a little bit about.

982
01:05:00,832 --> 01:05:09,606
The vacancy rates. And the need for. Densification. I

983
01:05:09,606 --> 01:05:16,693
think my first question would be, essentially, Are you aware

984
01:05:16,693 --> 01:05:21,133
that we have the highest percentage of parkland of municipality

985
01:05:21,133 --> 01:05:25,762
in Ontario? No, I'm. Not. Or the number of parks

986
01:05:25,762 --> 01:05:32,924
is ranks among the top. So I want to focus

987
01:05:32,924 --> 01:05:38,764
those points on my question to get from 106,000, which

988
01:05:38,764 --> 01:05:45,936
we are identified as. To the 150. Which is realistic

989
01:05:45,936 --> 01:05:49,416
from a planning standpoint. Can it be done by single

990
01:05:49,416 --> 01:05:54,710
family dwellings? Would you confirm that? We have to have

991
01:05:54,710 --> 01:06:01,192
some measure of densification. Are you asking, like, if I'm

992
01:06:01,192 --> 01:06:06,515
opposed to low density residential? No, I'm just. Asking. What

993
01:06:06,515 --> 01:06:10,711
you would think there's capacity for. Yes, I believe that

994
01:06:10,711 --> 01:06:13,751
there is capacity for low density residential. I just believe

995
01:06:13,751 --> 01:06:16,591
that they should be built in tandem with medium to

996
01:06:16,591 --> 01:06:21,351
high density residential. And I think the tax revenue numbers

997
01:06:21,351 --> 01:06:25,254
illustrate that. The most. If they're built in tandem, you

998
01:06:25,254 --> 01:06:29,334
can use high density, essentially, to subsidize the low density.

999
01:06:31,031 --> 01:06:32,351
Is how I view it. Ultimately, if I want to

1000
01:06:32,351 --> 01:06:35,303
live in low density. We're going to have to build

1001
01:06:35,303 --> 01:06:37,623
more low density. I understand that. I'm not. Opposed to

1002
01:06:37,623 --> 01:06:41,445
low density. I would like to see the infill happening

1003
01:06:41,445 --> 01:06:44,205
at the same time that we construct low density, and

1004
01:06:44,205 --> 01:06:48,589
I just kind of wanted to illustrate that. Over the

1005
01:06:48,589 --> 01:06:52,658
34 year period. How much high density we have added.

1006
01:06:52,658 --> 01:06:55,418
At some point we stopped building apartments like this and

1007
01:06:55,418 --> 01:06:58,738
just mainly focused on low density, and it's why I

1008
01:06:58,738 --> 01:07:02,018
personally believe that there is a housing crisis as well

1009
01:07:02,018 --> 01:07:05,498
as a climbing infrastructure deficit. As a result. Just because

1010
01:07:05,498 --> 01:07:09,058
the tax revenues aren't. There. Thank you for your clear

1011
01:07:09,058 --> 01:07:17,994
answer. Thank. You. Speaker. Thank you. Councilor Aguwal, please. Thank

1012
01:07:17,994 --> 01:07:21,961
you. Chair. My question when you calculated. I thank you

1013
01:07:21,961 --> 01:07:25,121
for your detailed presentation and numbers. Just to get a

1014
01:07:25,121 --> 01:07:30,208
couple of clarifications. When you detailed it was 427 net

1015
01:07:30,208 --> 01:07:35,088
gain of new apartments from 1990. So what I was

1016
01:07:35,088 --> 01:07:38,288
using was I was using the historical primary rental data

1017
01:07:38,288 --> 01:07:41,608
from the CMHC, so I took the difference in units

1018
01:07:41,608 --> 01:07:45,328
from 2024 to 1990, and I had a net gain

1019
01:07:45,328 --> 01:07:50,209
of 447 now. That number. Fluctuates over the years. So

1020
01:07:50,209 --> 01:07:56,078
I apologize if I misinterpreted that the data. Okay. Thank

1021
01:07:56,078 --> 01:08:03,167
you for that clarification. From 1990 to 2025. In the

1022
01:08:03,167 --> 01:08:06,237
last many years. I agree. There's not been a lot

1023
01:08:06,237 --> 01:08:09,317
of multi residential. Did you take into account all the

1024
01:08:09,317 --> 01:08:14,274
multi residential condominiums, which. Are actually registered as single family

1025
01:08:14,274 --> 01:08:18,674
dwellings because the condominium ownership is single family rather than

1026
01:08:18,674 --> 01:08:24,209
multi. Residential. I wasn't aware of that classification. Yeah. So

1027
01:08:24,209 --> 01:08:28,649
we've seen a substantial growth in that spectrum, some of

1028
01:08:28,649 --> 01:08:31,249
which are rentals and so your data, what you've got.

1029
01:08:31,249 --> 01:08:34,231
I appreciate that because. It is the true rental. So

1030
01:08:34,231 --> 01:08:36,591
if somebody has a rental living in there, it's different.

1031
01:08:36,591 --> 01:08:39,551
So your data. I appreciate where you received it from.

1032
01:08:41,391 --> 01:08:46,091
Now my next question. Through you is when you were

1033
01:08:46,091 --> 01:08:49,331
growing up, you lived in a single family home. Yes.

1034
01:08:49,331 --> 01:08:52,770
Not in an apartment. And the goal of your parents

1035
01:08:52,770 --> 01:08:56,010
was to buy the roman single family home and to

1036
01:08:56,010 --> 01:09:01,065
be able to afford it. What is the goal? You're

1037
01:09:01,065 --> 01:09:03,665
a young gentleman who wants to hopefully stay in Thunderbait,

1038
01:09:03,665 --> 01:09:06,065
like you said. In the next 35, 40 years. What

1039
01:09:06,065 --> 01:09:10,391
is your goal? Is it apartment living? What is that

1040
01:09:10,391 --> 01:09:13,471
spectrum for your age group to be moving into? I

1041
01:09:13,471 --> 01:09:16,631
think if you asked personally myself, I would like to

1042
01:09:16,631 --> 01:09:18,711
move into a home in the city. And I think

1043
01:09:18,711 --> 01:09:21,111
if you asked. Anyone my age, they would say the

1044
01:09:21,111 --> 01:09:24,151
same thing. Often when I have this discussion with people,

1045
01:09:24,151 --> 01:09:26,951
my age if you ask them. Do you want to

1046
01:09:26,951 --> 01:09:30,155
move out of the house or would you? Prefer to

1047
01:09:30,155 --> 01:09:31,915
stay at home and save for a house. They will

1048
01:09:31,915 --> 01:09:35,010
stay, stay at home and save. For a house. Because

1049
01:09:35,010 --> 01:09:37,930
the rent is equivalent to a mortgage payment. So many

1050
01:09:37,930 --> 01:09:41,130
of them see renting as essentially throwing away a mortgage

1051
01:09:41,130 --> 01:09:43,810
payment and would much rather prefer to stay at home

1052
01:09:43,810 --> 01:09:47,050
as opposed to rent. In the city. I rent because

1053
01:09:47,050 --> 01:09:50,450
again, my family moved over to the country. I had

1054
01:09:50,450 --> 01:09:53,996
to move. Back for school. And to focus on my

1055
01:09:53,996 --> 01:09:58,070
career, which is why I'm a renter. My friends either

1056
01:09:58,070 --> 01:10:01,030
live in the city or continue to live at home

1057
01:10:01,030 --> 01:10:04,981
on the outskirts of the city. Thank you so much.

1058
01:10:04,981 --> 01:10:07,701
Thank you. All right. Thank you so much for your

1059
01:10:07,701 --> 01:10:10,781
deputation. You may return. I'm sorry. Am I able to

1060
01:10:10,781 --> 01:10:12,941
leave? I have to go to work. Oh. Yeah, go

1061
01:10:12,941 --> 01:10:17,287
ahead. Thank you. You may leave. Thank you. Thank you

1062
01:10:17,287 --> 01:10:21,827
very much. Thank you. Clerk Walters, please. That's I'm on

1063
01:10:21,827 --> 01:10:24,827
the agenda's correspondence received from Zach. White on November the

1064
01:10:24,827 --> 01:10:28,587
19th, requesting to appear before standing committee. Additional information relative

1065
01:10:28,587 --> 01:10:31,307
to this deputation. Was distributed on Friday, November the 20

1066
01:10:31,307 --> 01:10:34,667
eigth. Good evening, Mr. White. Thank you for coming forward.

1067
01:10:34,667 --> 01:10:36,267
And again. You'll have ten minutes and I'll give you

1068
01:10:36,267 --> 01:10:37,987
a heads. Up when you have a minute left, okay?

1069
01:10:40,229 --> 01:10:43,629
Sounds good. Thank you so much. All right. Mayor Boschkov,

1070
01:10:43,629 --> 01:10:47,948
chair Katuga, members of the growth committee. City manager Colin,

1071
01:10:47,948 --> 01:10:51,325
who's away right now, and the rest of administration. Thank

1072
01:10:51,325 --> 01:10:53,485
you for allowing me to speak tonight regarding the proposed

1073
01:10:53,485 --> 01:10:57,565
development in 791 Arundel, my name is Zach White, and

1074
01:10:57,565 --> 01:11:00,525
my wife and I live at 432 Toledo, which is

1075
01:11:00,525 --> 01:11:03,365
right on the corner of Toledo and Arundel. We live

1076
01:11:03,365 --> 01:11:06,285
there with our two beautiful twin girls. We just turned

1077
01:11:06,285 --> 01:11:10,760
ten months this week. The community's own green space. In

1078
01:11:10,760 --> 01:11:14,440
question here as directly out our back window, and we

1079
01:11:14,440 --> 01:11:16,800
often see people using the pay trail. Coming from chart

1080
01:11:16,800 --> 01:11:21,192
wells, other people. It's a very well used space. The

1081
01:11:21,192 --> 01:11:23,992
fixed under unit development, as shown in the conceptual rendering,

1082
01:11:23,992 --> 01:11:27,312
would dwarf our property as well as the other ten

1083
01:11:27,312 --> 01:11:30,844
property owners along the shared property line. It would increase

1084
01:11:30,844 --> 01:11:34,524
traffic, noise levels, light pollution at night, reduce the amount

1085
01:11:34,524 --> 01:11:38,124
of sunlight we receive in our backyard, decreased privacy, and,

1086
01:11:38,124 --> 01:11:40,964
as Ivan mentioned, most likely decreased property values to some

1087
01:11:40,964 --> 01:11:46,036
degree. I don't think any reasonable person in our position

1088
01:11:46,036 --> 01:11:50,022
would prefer to trade. The green space that we enjoy

1089
01:11:50,022 --> 01:11:54,390
for 600 units of housing. But I understand the pressures

1090
01:11:54,390 --> 01:11:57,580
the city are under, and we'll get to that. After

1091
01:11:57,580 --> 01:12:00,460
we learned about this proposed development, we created an online

1092
01:12:00,460 --> 01:12:05,660
petition. 340 members of the community sign this petition in

1093
01:12:05,660 --> 01:12:09,020
opposition of the project, as shown in the conceptual rendering.

1094
01:12:10,809 --> 01:12:13,449
The list of names as well as 120 comments left

1095
01:12:13,449 --> 01:12:17,409
by signees of the petition were submitted. With the application

1096
01:12:17,409 --> 01:12:22,452
for this deputation. This is a substantial community response, especially

1097
01:12:22,452 --> 01:12:26,212
given our limited reach as members of the community. In

1098
01:12:26,212 --> 01:12:30,012
contrast, the survey that was produced by administration recently, which

1099
01:12:30,012 --> 01:12:35,618
was good. It had 142 total responses. So the pie

1100
01:12:35,618 --> 01:12:40,488
charts that were shown earlier were 142 total people. Which

1101
01:12:40,488 --> 01:12:42,808
is less than half the signatures that we collected in

1102
01:12:42,808 --> 01:12:47,048
opposition to the project. In total, it also had 52

1103
01:12:47,048 --> 01:12:52,048
comments on the administration survey, and we've had 120 comments

1104
01:12:52,048 --> 01:12:55,728
submitted as part of the petition in opposition. Now, the

1105
01:12:55,728 --> 01:12:58,288
comments that we received on the online petition followed a

1106
01:12:58,288 --> 01:13:01,508
lot of the similar themes that were summarized by. Administration,

1107
01:13:01,508 --> 01:13:05,468
primarily loss of green space and trails, increased traffic, appropriateness

1108
01:13:05,468 --> 01:13:08,548
of the size of the development and lack of access

1109
01:13:08,548 --> 01:13:13,002
to sufficient amenities. So similar results, but a large number

1110
01:13:13,002 --> 01:13:16,002
of people as well. In addition to this survey, the

1111
01:13:16,002 --> 01:13:18,402
current river ward meeting held on November 5, as mentioned

1112
01:13:18,402 --> 01:13:21,362
earlier, had over 100 concerned citizens come out to voice

1113
01:13:21,362 --> 01:13:24,762
their opposition to the project save one individual who spoke

1114
01:13:24,762 --> 01:13:27,939
in favor. It is clear there are a large number

1115
01:13:27,939 --> 01:13:30,459
of city residents that do not want this project to

1116
01:13:30,459 --> 01:13:34,019
happen. And want the green space to remain as is

1117
01:13:34,019 --> 01:13:39,198
or developed at a smaller scale. We understand the need

1118
01:13:39,198 --> 01:13:42,198
for housing in our city and the millions of dollars

1119
01:13:42,198 --> 01:13:45,878
of HAF funding. That is contingent upon some very ambitious

1120
01:13:45,878 --> 01:13:49,998
housing targets. We understand that urban sprawl creates a tremendous

1121
01:13:49,998 --> 01:13:54,481
strain. On the city's services relative to tax base and

1122
01:13:54,481 --> 01:13:58,340
that infill and urban densification. Is a much more economical

1123
01:13:58,340 --> 01:14:01,780
way to increase the housing supply. We understand the features

1124
01:14:01,780 --> 01:14:05,340
of this property. And what makes it attractive for development.

1125
01:14:05,340 --> 01:14:08,580
We're also fully aware that our property line ends. At

1126
01:14:08,580 --> 01:14:10,900
the fence. And the city of Thunder Bay owns this

1127
01:14:10,900 --> 01:14:13,820
piece of land, not the neighbors that live along it,

1128
01:14:13,820 --> 01:14:15,780
and the city, as an entity can do with it

1129
01:14:15,780 --> 01:14:19,933
what it pleases. However, this standing committee and ultimately council

1130
01:14:19,933 --> 01:14:22,573
as a whole are the ones who decide if this

1131
01:14:22,573 --> 01:14:26,853
proposed development takes place and if so, to what extent?

1132
01:14:26,853 --> 01:14:29,133
The members of council are elected by the residents. Of

1133
01:14:29,133 --> 01:14:31,973
the community to be their voice and reflective views and

1134
01:14:31,973 --> 01:14:36,476
needs of the community. In their decisions. It is council's

1135
01:14:36,476 --> 01:14:39,276
duty to consider the concerns of the hundreds of residents

1136
01:14:39,276 --> 01:14:41,556
who have shown their opposition to this project when they

1137
01:14:41,556 --> 01:14:45,642
make their decisions in this matter. If it is decided

1138
01:14:45,642 --> 01:14:48,842
by council that some amount of multi unit housing must

1139
01:14:48,842 --> 01:14:51,922
be developed at 791 or rundle. Our request is that

1140
01:14:51,922 --> 01:14:55,322
it be done in a reasonable and responsible manner that

1141
01:14:55,322 --> 01:14:59,396
addresses the concerns of nearby residents and the community. A

1142
01:14:59,396 --> 01:15:03,436
600 unit development on under eight acres would be unprecedented.

1143
01:15:03,436 --> 01:15:05,876
Based on our research, it would be. The densest residential

1144
01:15:05,876 --> 01:15:08,396
cluster in the entire city and among the largest multi

1145
01:15:08,396 --> 01:15:13,601
unit proposals in Thunderbase history. Is this well used green

1146
01:15:13,601 --> 01:15:17,321
space located from downtown cores really the appropriate location for

1147
01:15:17,321 --> 01:15:20,241
development of this size. It does not align with the

1148
01:15:20,241 --> 01:15:24,961
existing neighborhood character, the active living corridor, or various city

1149
01:15:24,961 --> 01:15:29,158
planning documents. It would bring a massive influx of residents

1150
01:15:29,158 --> 01:15:34,158
and vehicles, permanently altering traffic patterns, noise and privacy. The

1151
01:15:34,158 --> 01:15:37,998
justification for the size of the development must be based

1152
01:15:37,998 --> 01:15:41,718
on more than short term monetary gain achieved by hitting

1153
01:15:41,718 --> 01:15:46,049
housing targets. The impacts of these decisions will be felt

1154
01:15:46,049 --> 01:15:51,035
in this neighborhood for generations. If development occurs on this

1155
01:15:51,035 --> 01:15:55,569
property. Our recommendations to council to balance the need for

1156
01:15:55,569 --> 01:15:59,889
housing with the impact on local residents and the community

1157
01:15:59,889 --> 01:16:04,049
are as follows. Number one, leave the popular paved traffic

1158
01:16:04,049 --> 01:16:07,289
path untouched by limiting development to the east and north

1159
01:16:07,289 --> 01:16:11,016
sides of the property. Number two, plant mature trees or

1160
01:16:11,016 --> 01:16:14,416
hedges between the paved path and the west property lying

1161
01:16:14,416 --> 01:16:16,736
along the north section of the property to provide those

1162
01:16:16,736 --> 01:16:19,576
Toledo residents with a similar amount of privacy as their

1163
01:16:19,576 --> 01:16:25,576
southern neighbors number three. Aside from a vehicle entryway, maintain

1164
01:16:25,576 --> 01:16:29,096
the existing tree line along a rundle. To provide some

1165
01:16:29,096 --> 01:16:33,047
shelter. From traffic, noise and lights along a rundle for

1166
01:16:33,047 --> 01:16:35,327
both the Toledo residents and the new residents. Of a

1167
01:16:35,327 --> 01:16:40,794
potential development. Number four. Reduce the number of housing units

1168
01:16:40,794 --> 01:16:43,674
down to something more reasonable and appropriate to the area.

1169
01:16:45,112 --> 01:16:47,472
Something similar in scale and density to the existing condo

1170
01:16:47,472 --> 01:16:50,915
and apartment buildings across the street. Number five, limit the

1171
01:16:50,915 --> 01:16:54,395
number of stories of new apartment buildings to four stories

1172
01:16:54,395 --> 01:16:57,355
to reduce the impact on neighboring properties and preserve the

1173
01:16:57,355 --> 01:17:00,835
natural beauty of the area. And number six, place the

1174
01:17:00,835 --> 01:17:04,395
vehicle access. For the proposed development directly across from the

1175
01:17:04,395 --> 01:17:07,075
east entryway of Park View place, which is across the

1176
01:17:07,075 --> 01:17:11,404
street. This creates some distance between. The intersection of Toledo

1177
01:17:11,404 --> 01:17:13,524
and a rundle, as well as the driveway for the

1178
01:17:13,524 --> 01:17:17,564
home at 432 Toledo this location would improve safety by

1179
01:17:17,564 --> 01:17:21,204
essentially creating a two way stop intersection at that spot.

1180
01:17:21,204 --> 01:17:24,364
On the conceptual rendering. The entryway was directly beside the

1181
01:17:24,364 --> 01:17:28,324
Toledo intersection, which would be custard. And you'd have offsetting

1182
01:17:28,324 --> 01:17:31,412
entryways to the apartment buildings across the street. We believe

1183
01:17:31,412 --> 01:17:35,052
these recommendations strike a fair balance between adding much needed

1184
01:17:35,052 --> 01:17:40,277
housing and respecting the existing community. We are not against

1185
01:17:40,277 --> 01:17:43,642
housing being created for people that need it. We simply

1186
01:17:43,642 --> 01:17:47,282
want a reasonable, balanced approach that adds housing to the

1187
01:17:47,282 --> 01:17:51,042
city without sacrificing. The character and well being of the

1188
01:17:51,042 --> 01:17:55,042
surrounding communities. I appreciate the varying opinions that we've heard

1189
01:17:55,042 --> 01:17:58,682
here tonight, especially Cody's opinion as a renter. I was

1190
01:17:58,682 --> 01:18:01,362
a renter in thunder bay for eight years, and I'm

1191
01:18:01,362 --> 01:18:05,635
currently a landlord of. A small house. So I see

1192
01:18:05,635 --> 01:18:09,475
both sides of this issue, and I'm currently vacant in

1193
01:18:09,475 --> 01:18:11,475
the unit that I'm renting, so I'm hearing from people

1194
01:18:11,475 --> 01:18:13,635
looking for a place to live. Right now and communicating

1195
01:18:13,635 --> 01:18:15,915
with them as I try and fill that unit so

1196
01:18:15,915 --> 01:18:17,635
I see both sides. Of this issue, and I just

1197
01:18:17,635 --> 01:18:20,595
want to balance the approach, as I mentioned, to this

1198
01:18:20,595 --> 01:18:24,395
development, so thank you. Thank you so much for your

1199
01:18:24,395 --> 01:18:28,364
deputation, Mr. White. Is there any questions? Councilor Pascalino, please.

1200
01:18:30,215 --> 01:18:33,295
Thank you very much. And through chair. I really appreciate

1201
01:18:33,295 --> 01:18:39,698
your presentation. One of the things. That I like about

1202
01:18:39,698 --> 01:18:46,006
it is that you've. Offered some other alternatives. I want

1203
01:18:46,006 --> 01:18:49,766
you to know that counselors are taking these decisions very

1204
01:18:49,766 --> 01:18:55,061
seriously. We are dealing with people that are looking for

1205
01:18:55,061 --> 01:18:58,661
a place to stay. We're trying to grow the city.

1206
01:18:58,661 --> 01:19:02,701
And we're also trying to make sure that taxes are

1207
01:19:02,701 --> 01:19:09,354
reasonable. And on the other hand. My concern is that

1208
01:19:09,354 --> 01:19:16,455
if we were to do something. That can't be or

1209
01:19:16,455 --> 01:19:21,562
would be difficult. To balance out with the infrastructure around

1210
01:19:21,562 --> 01:19:25,664
there. So my goal, I believe, as a city councilor,

1211
01:19:25,664 --> 01:19:30,445
is to make sure. That. The civil engineers do their

1212
01:19:30,445 --> 01:19:34,933
job to make sure that the roads. And the sewers

1213
01:19:34,933 --> 01:19:37,853
all work in the water pressure work, but also that

1214
01:19:37,853 --> 01:19:41,493
people would want to stay where they are. So I

1215
01:19:41,493 --> 01:19:47,607
really do appreciate. Your deputation. And I want to assure

1216
01:19:47,607 --> 01:19:52,097
you that we're taking. These decisions very seriously. Thank you.

1217
01:19:53,333 --> 01:19:57,774
Thank you. Okay. All right, Ms. White, thank you so

1218
01:19:57,774 --> 01:20:02,160
much. You may return. Deputy Walters, please, let's. The agenda

1219
01:20:02,160 --> 01:20:05,240
is correspondence received from Rod Seabrook on November the 20th

1220
01:20:05,240 --> 01:20:07,600
requesting to appear before standing committee. I will note for

1221
01:20:07,600 --> 01:20:10,000
a committee that we did receive a petition from Mr.

1222
01:20:10,000 --> 01:20:12,880
Seabrook this evening. It is a signed petition and appears

1223
01:20:12,880 --> 01:20:16,760
to be in accordance with the city's position's policy, but

1224
01:20:16,760 --> 01:20:18,360
again, it was just provided to us, just. Before the

1225
01:20:18,360 --> 01:20:21,772
meeting. Thank you. Welcome Mr. Steve Brooke. Thank you for

1226
01:20:21,772 --> 01:20:24,292
coming forward again. You'll have ten minutes. And I'll give

1227
01:20:24,292 --> 01:20:26,572
you a heads up when there's a minute left. Okay?

1228
01:20:26,572 --> 01:20:30,071
Sure. Thank you very much. Just point out I do

1229
01:20:30,071 --> 01:20:34,031
have some slides that accompany the presentation. That is not

1230
01:20:34,031 --> 01:20:40,870
the first slide. Though. No. I think you have an

1231
01:20:40,870 --> 01:20:43,510
old version of the. Yeah, you have an old version.

1232
01:20:49,033 --> 01:20:57,965
Gordon. There should be six slides in total. The first

1233
01:20:57,965 --> 01:20:59,365
one is an aerial overview.

1234
01:21:10,623 --> 01:21:17,594
No. Anyway. I'll try and work with this. If you

1235
01:21:17,594 --> 01:21:23,694
could scroll down further, please, towards the bottom. That's it.

1236
01:21:23,694 --> 01:21:28,134
Okay. That one there. And that's it. Right. Okay. Thank

1237
01:21:28,134 --> 01:21:31,254
you. My. Name is Rod Seabrook. I have lived on

1238
01:21:31,254 --> 01:21:36,729
Sequoia Drive for the past 42 years. I'm here speaking

1239
01:21:36,729 --> 01:21:39,889
on behalf of residents opposed to the proposed sale and

1240
01:21:39,889 --> 01:21:42,929
development of city owned land at John street and Junott

1241
01:21:42,929 --> 01:21:48,489
Avenue. What realty services is describing as 300 Tokyo street,

1242
01:21:48,489 --> 01:21:52,169
residents are shocked, angered and feeling betrayed by the city

1243
01:21:52,169 --> 01:21:55,889
that our neighborhood is under consideration for a massive 400

1244
01:21:55,889 --> 01:22:00,147
unit. Apartment complex development. The property has been described by

1245
01:22:00,147 --> 01:22:05,921
realty services as surplus land. This diminishes. The perceived value

1246
01:22:05,921 --> 01:22:08,881
of the land. On the contrary, the forest has been

1247
01:22:08,881 --> 01:22:11,281
that has been growing there. For the past 50 years

1248
01:22:11,281 --> 01:22:15,378
has significant value. Our neighborhood is a mix of low

1249
01:22:15,378 --> 01:22:18,538
and middle income families, many of who live in social

1250
01:22:18,538 --> 01:22:22,258
housing. Units, which has added greatly to the population density

1251
01:22:22,258 --> 01:22:25,834
of the area. There is also. A significant component of

1252
01:22:25,834 --> 01:22:30,674
single parent and indigenous families housing. Housing consists of single

1253
01:22:30,674 --> 01:22:34,154
family homes and duplexes a small apartment building, and more

1254
01:22:34,154 --> 01:22:38,954
recently, seven new sixplexes and a triplex on Junet Avenue,

1255
01:22:38,954 --> 01:22:43,474
a 58 unit, new 58 unit transitional housing project for

1256
01:22:43,474 --> 01:22:48,199
indigenous youth is. Nearing completion next to the EMS building.

1257
01:22:48,199 --> 01:22:50,919
Our neighborhood has done more than its fair share to

1258
01:22:50,919 --> 01:22:54,979
accommodate. Development over the past 40 years. All at the

1259
01:22:54,979 --> 01:22:58,699
incremental loss of our forested and open areas. It has

1260
01:22:58,699 --> 01:23:03,179
been virtually all take and no give. When the new

1261
01:23:03,179 --> 01:23:06,859
EMS facility was being proposed for construction next to the

1262
01:23:06,859 --> 01:23:10,299
fire, hall at Junot and Red River Road. Residents of

1263
01:23:10,299 --> 01:23:14,259
Grand View protested as a result of these protests the.

1264
01:23:15,227 --> 01:23:19,707
Grandview neighborhood received a large, new dedicated park. Our neighborhood

1265
01:23:19,707 --> 01:23:25,095
got ems. And a tiny parquet. When the transitional housing

1266
01:23:25,095 --> 01:23:29,878
project was looking for property, our neighborhood was proposed. There

1267
01:23:29,878 --> 01:23:32,558
is much debate about the suitability of the area for

1268
01:23:32,558 --> 01:23:35,678
the project, given its well known reputation for violence and

1269
01:23:35,678 --> 01:23:40,053
drug dealing in certain areas. Several councilors voted against the

1270
01:23:40,053 --> 01:23:44,442
project for that very reason. However, the project was approved.

1271
01:23:44,442 --> 01:23:47,042
Again we lost open space, this time next to the

1272
01:23:47,042 --> 01:23:50,682
boys and girls. Club. So here we are having to

1273
01:23:50,682 --> 01:23:53,482
fight with the city over an ill conceived proposal and

1274
01:23:53,482 --> 01:23:57,322
a rushed process. The rush to get construction started is

1275
01:23:57,322 --> 01:24:01,522
driven by targets and deadlines set under the housing accelerator

1276
01:24:01,522 --> 01:24:06,421
fund program. And the associated inducement of federal government subsidies,

1277
01:24:06,421 --> 01:24:11,745
all to address a largely self inflicted housing crisis. The

1278
01:24:11,745 --> 01:24:14,585
process is not about thoughtful planning that takes into account

1279
01:24:14,585 --> 01:24:18,145
the specific challenges and needs of a neighborhood. It's about

1280
01:24:18,145 --> 01:24:22,105
cramming as many multi unit buildings into an area to

1281
01:24:22,105 --> 01:24:26,385
satisfy targets and arbitrary deadlines set under the Housing Accelerator

1282
01:24:26,385 --> 01:24:30,220
Fund program. As a result, the city is fast tracking

1283
01:24:30,220 --> 01:24:33,180
the development with very little time for the public to

1284
01:24:33,180 --> 01:24:38,200
get involved or to provide comments. Had I not distributed

1285
01:24:38,200 --> 01:24:42,240
information? Flyers gone door to door informing residents what was

1286
01:24:42,240 --> 01:24:46,160
being proposed and listening to their concerns. Virtually no one

1287
01:24:46,160 --> 01:24:49,040
in our neighborhood would have been aware of what was

1288
01:24:49,040 --> 01:24:53,000
happening or have had their say. 100% of the people

1289
01:24:53,000 --> 01:24:58,647
that I spoke to directly. Who signed a petition stating

1290
01:24:58,647 --> 01:25:01,567
their opposition to the proposal to sell and develop the

1291
01:25:01,567 --> 01:25:06,410
land for a 400 unit apartment complex. In a matter

1292
01:25:06,410 --> 01:25:09,330
of just a few days. The petition has received 90

1293
01:25:09,330 --> 01:25:13,410
signatures. I'd like to say too clearly, there is a

1294
01:25:13,410 --> 01:25:18,250
disconnect between realty services survey results and what I heard

1295
01:25:18,250 --> 01:25:22,130
from talking face to face with nearly 100 people in

1296
01:25:22,130 --> 01:25:29,509
our neighborhood. 100% opposed. Multiple negative impacts will result with

1297
01:25:29,509 --> 01:25:33,349
no offsetting, mitigating measures or improvements being offered. A 400

1298
01:25:33,349 --> 01:25:36,829
unit, six story complex is completely out of scale and

1299
01:25:36,829 --> 01:25:40,749
character with our neighborhood. The project will completely dominate the

1300
01:25:40,749 --> 01:25:45,367
area. There will be a total loss of the natural

1301
01:25:45,367 --> 01:25:49,807
forest. This contradicts the city's commitments to protect and enhance

1302
01:25:49,807 --> 01:25:54,527
the urban forest and to help address the climate crisis.

1303
01:25:54,527 --> 01:25:57,447
The soil in the area is comprised of 10ft of

1304
01:25:57,447 --> 01:26:03,127
muscade, completely unsuitable for supporting such large buildings. Because of

1305
01:26:03,127 --> 01:26:06,080
the musk egg. Soils the yard zone. Pickton Avenue, next

1306
01:26:06,080 --> 01:26:09,951
to the. Proposed development have sunk over 2ft since the

1307
01:26:09,951 --> 01:26:13,274
homes were built about 50 years ago. The site is

1308
01:26:13,274 --> 01:26:16,234
also currently well below the level of the public sidewalk

1309
01:26:16,234 --> 01:26:19,874
along Junott Avenue, requiring large amounts of fill to raise

1310
01:26:19,874 --> 01:26:22,714
the grade. This will place the homes on Pickton Avenue.

1311
01:26:22,714 --> 01:26:25,914
Several feet below the level of the likely final grade

1312
01:26:25,914 --> 01:26:28,834
of the apartment buildings. Where will the runoff from the

1313
01:26:28,834 --> 01:26:33,599
apartment development end up? The proposed 400 unit development is

1314
01:26:33,599 --> 01:26:36,519
more than three times the size of the new development

1315
01:26:36,519 --> 01:26:40,479
of 120. Units located at the corner of Junet Avenue

1316
01:26:40,479 --> 01:26:45,245
and Riviera Drive. That development is situated on virtually the

1317
01:26:45,245 --> 01:26:50,099
same size property. But it is in an existing low

1318
01:26:50,099 --> 01:26:55,299
density area. By comparison, our neighborhood is already high density

1319
01:26:55,299 --> 01:26:59,859
and cannot absorb a 400 unit apartment complex. The proposed

1320
01:26:59,859 --> 01:27:03,219
department buildings have very little setback from the public sidewalks.

1321
01:27:04,692 --> 01:27:08,492
The Junot Riviera development, however, by comparison, has a much

1322
01:27:08,492 --> 01:27:13,172
larger setback from the sidewalk probably 60ft and the road.

1323
01:27:13,172 --> 01:27:16,092
It also has pave parking areas in front of and

1324
01:27:16,092 --> 01:27:18,692
at the site of the buildings. In addition to underground

1325
01:27:18,692 --> 01:27:23,959
parking, the artist's rendition of the John Juna development. Is

1326
01:27:23,959 --> 01:27:26,559
incomplete and that it does not show any outside parking,

1327
01:27:26,559 --> 01:27:30,119
only a treed courtyard and more trees surrounding the buildings.

1328
01:27:30,119 --> 01:27:33,519
Why would outside parking not be shown when clearly it

1329
01:27:33,519 --> 01:27:38,766
would be needed? Traffic entering and exiting the development will

1330
01:27:38,766 --> 01:27:43,939
increase traffic volume substantially. On already busy John street and

1331
01:27:43,939 --> 01:27:46,659
June Knot Avenue. I had a picture of. There it

1332
01:27:46,659 --> 01:27:50,418
is. That's gridlock at quarter to four in the afternoon

1333
01:27:50,418 --> 01:27:55,559
on John Street. Development of the property is severely constrained

1334
01:27:55,559 --> 01:27:58,999
by there being no access permitted from the Expressway. John

1335
01:27:58,999 --> 01:28:03,079
street or Junott Avenue. Imagine 400 plus vehicles per day

1336
01:28:03,079 --> 01:28:07,279
from the apartment complex, entering and exiting through the residential

1337
01:28:07,279 --> 01:28:16,244
streets. Of Picton, Bleacher and Windsor. Any access utilizing Bleacher

1338
01:28:16,244 --> 01:28:19,804
Avenue will result in the loss of picked in Parquet.

1339
01:28:19,804 --> 01:28:23,724
Picked an avenue currently does not even have sidewalks. All

1340
01:28:23,724 --> 01:28:28,044
this new traffic, including during construction, would put pedestrians at

1341
01:28:28,044 --> 01:28:32,688
risk. The portion of the development running parallel to Juna

1342
01:28:32,688 --> 01:28:35,648
Avenue has been shoehorned into a very narrow strip of

1343
01:28:35,648 --> 01:28:40,449
land. And I draw your attention to that long, narrow

1344
01:28:40,449 --> 01:28:45,717
building along June Avenue. The homes along Picken Avenue will

1345
01:28:45,717 --> 01:28:50,343
lose virtually all of their direct sunlight. These massive concrete

1346
01:28:50,343 --> 01:28:53,423
buildings will reflect already high levels of traffic noise back

1347
01:28:53,423 --> 01:28:56,823
into nearby properties and privacy will be lost for homes

1348
01:28:56,823 --> 01:29:01,423
that ever over top by them. In conclusion, developers don't

1349
01:29:01,423 --> 01:29:04,183
create green space. So it falls to the city to

1350
01:29:04,183 --> 01:29:07,663
ensure that important green spaces, such as the property in

1351
01:29:07,663 --> 01:29:11,807
question are valued and protect. Protected and that the voices

1352
01:29:11,807 --> 01:29:16,007
and opinions of its residents are heard and respected. Once

1353
01:29:16,007 --> 01:29:18,967
the property is sold, developed and paved over. There is

1354
01:29:18,967 --> 01:29:22,527
no returning it to a natural state. A few scattered

1355
01:29:22,527 --> 01:29:25,927
trees and Zimbabwe bushes planted under the city site control

1356
01:29:25,927 --> 01:29:30,807
requirements can never substitute. For the area of natural forests

1357
01:29:30,807 --> 01:29:33,967
that already exists on the property, nor can it mitigate

1358
01:29:33,967 --> 01:29:36,887
the negative impacts of the proposed development on the surrounding

1359
01:29:36,887 --> 01:29:40,327
neighborhood or replace the intrinsic value of the property. That

1360
01:29:40,327 --> 01:29:43,767
it currently holds for residents. Don't be swayed by the

1361
01:29:43,767 --> 01:29:46,887
lure of a few federal dollars of subsidy if missing

1362
01:29:46,887 --> 01:29:51,193
the arbitrary target set under. The housing fund program means

1363
01:29:51,193 --> 01:29:54,433
foregoing the remaining money in the funds. So be it.

1364
01:29:54,433 --> 01:29:56,993
It is. A small price to pay to avoid making

1365
01:29:56,993 --> 01:30:02,087
a very bad decision. Our neighborhood recommendation is that city

1366
01:30:02,087 --> 01:30:06,803
council not approved this proposal, but instead. Have the property

1367
01:30:06,803 --> 01:30:11,563
remain as permanent green space for current and future generations.

1368
01:30:11,563 --> 01:30:14,563
If council chooses to declare the John Juna property as

1369
01:30:14,563 --> 01:30:18,203
surplus and it is subsequently sold and developed, there will

1370
01:30:18,203 --> 01:30:20,563
be nothing left to take from us, you will have

1371
01:30:20,563 --> 01:30:25,311
finally taken it all. That's it. You're done. Okay. Thank

1372
01:30:25,311 --> 01:30:28,991
you for Mr. Seabirk, for your. Deputation. Is there any

1373
01:30:28,991 --> 01:30:36,883
questions? Councilor Agarwal, please. Thank you very much.

1374
01:30:38,995 --> 01:30:42,134
Chair through you. Mr. Seabrook, thank you very much for.

1375
01:30:44,249 --> 01:30:47,089
Your personal dedication of trying to get more information from

1376
01:30:47,089 --> 01:30:50,169
your neighborhood. So you personally went out and knocked on.

1377
01:30:53,175 --> 01:30:56,055
I did. I was fortunate enough to receive a mail

1378
01:30:56,055 --> 01:31:01,201
because I'm with. In the mandatory mailing distance for notices.

1379
01:31:01,201 --> 01:31:03,161
I got a notice in the mail. That was the

1380
01:31:03,161 --> 01:31:06,121
first inquiry I had as I better start paying attention.

1381
01:31:08,523 --> 01:31:11,003
So I started following it, and then when I saw

1382
01:31:11,003 --> 01:31:15,951
what was being proposed, I took action. And I felt.

1383
01:31:17,998 --> 01:31:19,638
The best form of action was to get out and

1384
01:31:19,638 --> 01:31:27,279
talk to people directly, face to face, and. here to

1385
01:31:27,279 --> 01:31:31,199
explain to them what was being proposed here the concerns

1386
01:31:31,199 --> 01:31:32,531
hear their ideas Their wants and needs. That's what I

1387
01:31:32,531 --> 01:31:41,909
did. Thank you. Through you when you went through. Did

1388
01:31:41,909 --> 01:31:45,938
any one of the people in the neighborhood say. Instead

1389
01:31:45,938 --> 01:31:49,898
of six stories, instead of 400 units, maybe 100 units,

1390
01:31:49,898 --> 01:31:54,618
maybe something smaller. With the Natasha. I understand. You mentioned

1391
01:31:54,618 --> 01:31:59,109
that everything's been taken. With an attached green space area.

1392
01:31:59,109 --> 01:32:02,429
So it's not that whole parcel that's green. But maybe

1393
01:32:02,429 --> 01:32:04,789
a nice parquet or something. Did anybody mention some sort

1394
01:32:04,789 --> 01:32:12,028
of combination of that sort? The absolute. Common comment was

1395
01:32:12,028 --> 01:32:18,758
protection of the green space. There was comment. About. Would

1396
01:32:18,758 --> 01:32:23,985
be built be affordable housing. And some said they doubted

1397
01:32:23,985 --> 01:32:28,102
that. Any of it would be for low income families,

1398
01:32:28,102 --> 01:32:32,142
for example. But I will say that the reference to

1399
01:32:32,142 --> 01:32:38,204
affordable housing was made, but. The predominant comment was that

1400
01:32:38,204 --> 01:32:40,444
little bit of green space. They're going to take the

1401
01:32:40,444 --> 01:32:42,924
little bit of green space that we have, this little

1402
01:32:42,924 --> 01:32:48,093
bit of area. That remains in our neighborhood. And they

1403
01:32:48,093 --> 01:32:52,876
just said, that's terrible. It is absolutely terrible. And my

1404
01:32:52,876 --> 01:32:58,970
third question chair is. Quite an important one. Is your

1405
01:32:58,970 --> 01:33:07,179
soil conditions. Stickton Avenue has sunk 2ft. Yes. And that

1406
01:33:07,179 --> 01:33:10,182
area is all musk egg. It is? I can tell

1407
01:33:10,182 --> 01:33:13,422
you exactly how I know when we move to our

1408
01:33:13,422 --> 01:33:18,930
house on Sequoia. In the 80s. A couple of years

1409
01:33:18,930 --> 01:33:22,290
later, I think an excavator showed up on that strip

1410
01:33:22,290 --> 01:33:25,290
of land that I had shown that runs along Junot,

1411
01:33:25,290 --> 01:33:29,660
right? And they were digging. I assume they were digging

1412
01:33:29,660 --> 01:33:34,140
to see what soil conditions is like there, so. After

1413
01:33:34,140 --> 01:33:38,260
the work was done, they had left the excavation open.

1414
01:33:38,260 --> 01:33:41,905
I went over and had a look. And I was

1415
01:33:41,905 --> 01:33:47,158
quite surprised. Not completely shocked, but it's 10ft of muskeg

1416
01:33:47,158 --> 01:33:50,678
over blue clay, so clearly. This is old Lake bottom.

1417
01:33:51,902 --> 01:33:57,222
That overtime has succeeded to a swamp over thousands of

1418
01:33:57,222 --> 01:34:03,775
years and. The result is 10ft of musket. So, yes,

1419
01:34:03,775 --> 01:34:06,415
in terms of the houses on Picton, some of the

1420
01:34:06,415 --> 01:34:09,775
people's steps are this high. They're in the front yard.

1421
01:34:09,775 --> 01:34:14,324
This high off the ground. That's how far that property

1422
01:34:14,324 --> 01:34:19,990
is sunk. And these are small. Modest homes, not massive

1423
01:34:19,990 --> 01:34:25,613
apartment buildings. Thank you. Thank you. Your worship, please. Thank

1424
01:34:25,613 --> 01:34:31,797
you, speaker. As a presenter seem to know a little

1425
01:34:31,797 --> 01:34:41,083
bit about. The carrying capacity. Of the terrain.

1426
01:34:42,392 --> 01:34:48,303
And the muskeg. Do you think that. Site. Can. Hold.

1427
01:34:49,521 --> 01:34:55,863
Smaller. Or. Smaller design capacity. Well, my experience in engine,

1428
01:34:55,863 --> 01:34:58,503
I'm not an engineer, but I worked in the forest

1429
01:34:58,503 --> 01:35:02,143
industry for over 40 years, and my experience with that

1430
01:35:02,143 --> 01:35:10,386
type of soil is around logging. And roadbuilding. And so,

1431
01:35:10,386 --> 01:35:13,626
with respect to a login operation, you wait till wintertime,

1432
01:35:13,626 --> 01:35:17,106
till the ground is frozen till you move into it.

1433
01:35:17,106 --> 01:35:19,266
Otherwise your machinery is just going to sink in terms

1434
01:35:19,266 --> 01:35:23,546
of road. Building. You put corridorites through the area, floated.

1435
01:35:25,280 --> 01:35:27,760
Floater road over top. But it's very temporary, right? That

1436
01:35:27,760 --> 01:35:31,285
is not how you build. Buildings. I would defer to

1437
01:35:31,285 --> 01:35:34,085
the engineers over that, but I believe that the engineers

1438
01:35:34,085 --> 01:35:39,013
should be fully aware before. Anything is decided in terms

1439
01:35:39,013 --> 01:35:43,183
of any kind of proposal at that site. Soil test

1440
01:35:43,183 --> 01:35:47,281
should need to be done because. That location would be

1441
01:35:47,281 --> 01:35:52,421
a real challenge to build on. You mentioned that punk

1442
01:35:52,421 --> 01:35:57,607
picture has sunk 2ft. Yes. Is that the stretch of

1443
01:35:57,607 --> 01:36:01,696
the roadway? And over what time frame would have occurred.

1444
01:36:01,696 --> 01:36:05,096
Yeah. So my measure is of it is, are the

1445
01:36:05,096 --> 01:36:09,176
front steps on the homes on Pickton Avenue. Now some

1446
01:36:09,176 --> 01:36:12,376
people have since brought in fill they've put in new

1447
01:36:12,376 --> 01:36:17,168
stairs, but. There are still some homes that still have

1448
01:36:17,168 --> 01:36:21,519
the original front stairs on them, and. There is one.

1449
01:36:21,935 --> 01:36:25,498
Without. Exaggerating. Two and a half feet. The bottom of

1450
01:36:25,498 --> 01:36:29,178
the stairs. Two and a half feet. Above the grade

1451
01:36:29,178 --> 01:36:33,209
at the front of the house. Is there any number

1452
01:36:33,209 --> 01:36:38,009
of acceptable units for a building such as this based

1453
01:36:38,009 --> 01:36:45,724
on the new designs? And they don't look institutional anymore.

1454
01:36:45,724 --> 01:36:49,708
Well, I don't want to be the one to speak

1455
01:36:49,708 --> 01:36:54,141
on behalf of the residents. My recommendation would be to

1456
01:36:54,141 --> 01:36:57,728
come and talk to us. If you think that that

1457
01:36:57,728 --> 01:37:03,597
site may be suitable for some form of housing. We're

1458
01:37:03,597 --> 01:37:05,557
sending you a very clear message that what is being

1459
01:37:05,557 --> 01:37:10,663
portrayed here is absolutely not suitable. But if you think

1460
01:37:10,663 --> 01:37:14,243
that you might have. Something of interest to offer to

1461
01:37:14,243 --> 01:37:16,203
the residents. I would say come and talk to us

1462
01:37:16,203 --> 01:37:21,458
face to face. Not the way it's been done. Clearly

1463
01:37:21,458 --> 01:37:26,544
the way it was done does not engage. Demographic that

1464
01:37:26,544 --> 01:37:32,695
lives in our neighborhood. Thank you. Councilor treaty, please. Thank

1465
01:37:32,695 --> 01:37:35,455
you to the chair. And thank you for presenting again

1466
01:37:35,455 --> 01:37:44,017
today. i really want to focus on that balance piece

1467
01:37:44,017 --> 01:37:46,177
and i hear you very clearly just as i hear

1468
01:37:46,177 --> 01:37:50,337
rundell talking about that privacy concern wanting to keep that

1469
01:37:50,337 --> 01:37:53,977
tree line in and i'll be asking administration a question

1470
01:37:53,977 --> 01:37:57,737
if it's doable but from your perspective if they manage

1471
01:37:57,737 --> 01:37:58,160
to keep An area of natural forest between this building,

1472
01:37:58,160 --> 01:38:01,800
potential building, and the properties on Pickton, much like a

1473
01:38:01,800 --> 01:38:04,680
rundle in order to keep that privacy piece, in order

1474
01:38:04,680 --> 01:38:07,280
to keep the shade piece that the neighbors are used

1475
01:38:07,280 --> 01:38:10,440
to. Do you think that that would like if we

1476
01:38:10,440 --> 01:38:13,600
ask administration if we can keep 10ft for. And I

1477
01:38:13,600 --> 01:38:15,426
know we're getting a little bit. Into site plan control,

1478
01:38:15,426 --> 01:38:18,986
which is another question I'll ask later. Administration. But if

1479
01:38:18,986 --> 01:38:22,186
we ask them to keep about a 10ft buffer between

1480
01:38:22,186 --> 01:38:26,546
the properties and the new surplus land in which they

1481
01:38:26,546 --> 01:38:28,906
can use for the drainage piece that we are concerned

1482
01:38:28,906 --> 01:38:33,495
about. The ground sinking and then to keep that natural

1483
01:38:33,495 --> 01:38:36,335
tree line for the privacy. Do you think that the

1484
01:38:36,335 --> 01:38:39,495
neighbors would be quite comfortable with that. I don't believe

1485
01:38:39,495 --> 01:38:42,095
they would be comfortable at all. These are 60 foot

1486
01:38:42,095 --> 01:38:46,703
high buildings. That, as I had mentioned in my presentation,

1487
01:38:48,103 --> 01:38:50,223
Is being shoehorned into a narrow strip of land with

1488
01:38:50,223 --> 01:38:54,983
virtually no setback. Those houses would be completely overtopped by

1489
01:38:54,983 --> 01:38:57,103
the buildings. If you take a look or if you

1490
01:38:57,103 --> 01:38:59,023
happen. To drive by and have a look. The popular

1491
01:38:59,023 --> 01:39:03,023
trees are about 60ft tall. That's how tall those buildings

1492
01:39:03,023 --> 01:39:06,649
will be. The people who live on Picton in these

1493
01:39:06,649 --> 01:39:14,661
very modest homes. Will lose their sunlight completely. So we

1494
01:39:14,661 --> 01:39:16,821
want it to be smaller than the poplar trees that

1495
01:39:16,821 --> 01:39:20,101
are 60ft, is what you're telling. Well, when we talk

1496
01:39:20,101 --> 01:39:22,661
about. Well, I guess what I'm saying is. That to

1497
01:39:22,661 --> 01:39:25,661
try and wedge any sort of development along that narrow

1498
01:39:25,661 --> 01:39:30,935
strip there with no setback. Is not right. Thank you.

1499
01:39:30,935 --> 01:39:33,175
Thank you for that. I'll ask administration about the setback.

1500
01:39:33,175 --> 01:39:36,895
Piece. Thank you. Thank you. Chair. All right. Thank you

1501
01:39:36,895 --> 01:39:43,239
so much, Mr. Sheberk. You may return. Clerk Walters please.

1502
01:39:43,239 --> 01:39:46,039
That same on the agenda is correspondence received from Catherine

1503
01:39:46,039 --> 01:39:49,159
Corton on November the 20th requesting to appear before standing

1504
01:39:49,159 --> 01:39:54,449
committee. Welcome, Ms. Courtney. And again, you'll have ten minutes

1505
01:39:54,449 --> 01:39:55,929
when you're ready. And I'll let you know if you

1506
01:39:55,929 --> 01:40:02,828
hit nine minutes. When you have a minute left. All

1507
01:40:02,828 --> 01:40:08,765
right. Can you hear me? Thank you. Thank you, members

1508
01:40:08,765 --> 01:40:13,725
of committee and Mr. Mayor and administration, my name is

1509
01:40:13,725 --> 01:40:17,685
Catherine Cortin. I live on Conley street near Toledo and

1510
01:40:17,685 --> 01:40:23,687
around those streets. As many residents of this area and

1511
01:40:23,687 --> 01:40:28,327
of all other areas near green spaces in Sunder Bay.

1512
01:40:28,327 --> 01:40:31,047
I chose to live there for the very reason that

1513
01:40:31,047 --> 01:40:36,247
it is near green spaces. Therefore I was not contributing

1514
01:40:36,247 --> 01:40:40,887
to urban sprout. I'm here today to express my disappoint.

1515
01:40:40,420 --> 01:40:46,460
Disappointment, my sadness and my anger. How is it even

1516
01:40:46,460 --> 01:40:50,300
possible that our city planners and city council want to

1517
01:40:50,300 --> 01:40:56,542
designate green space? Spaces surplus. Do you realize what green

1518
01:40:56,542 --> 01:41:01,004
spaces do for our city and its people? Previous presenters

1519
01:41:01,004 --> 01:41:04,763
have said it, but I'll say it again. Green spaces

1520
01:41:04,763 --> 01:41:09,166
are key to attract people. To live in some areas

1521
01:41:09,166 --> 01:41:14,363
rather than others. They're key to quality of life, mental

1522
01:41:14,363 --> 01:41:19,958
and physical health. And they're also key to sustainability. I'm

1523
01:41:19,958 --> 01:41:24,398
not here to speak. Only about 791 around the street

1524
01:41:24,398 --> 01:41:27,318
or the other three. Properties which you want to declare

1525
01:41:27,318 --> 01:41:32,195
surplus. But to speak about all green spaces in our

1526
01:41:32,195 --> 01:41:37,554
city that may become targeted in the future. Not only

1527
01:41:37,554 --> 01:41:41,194
sad and angry, I'm also feeling confused about the city's

1528
01:41:41,194 --> 01:41:47,607
commitment. To sustainability. Many years ago, I was part of

1529
01:41:47,607 --> 01:41:51,567
the earthwise process, and I was led to believe that

1530
01:41:51,567 --> 01:41:57,511
our city cares and is committed to sustainability. So today

1531
01:41:57,511 --> 01:42:01,591
I'm wondering, was the Earthwise project just a shoe of

1532
01:42:01,591 --> 01:42:06,976
public consultation? With no heart, no impact. In city planners

1533
01:42:06,976 --> 01:42:14,301
decisions. Because if you do care about sustainability, Sorry, sustainability

1534
01:42:14,301 --> 01:42:17,581
and quality of life. Then how can you even dream

1535
01:42:17,581 --> 01:42:23,302
of destroying any green spaces which. Are vital to our

1536
01:42:23,302 --> 01:42:27,134
future as a city. In the words of Dr. Di

1537
01:42:27,134 --> 01:42:34,410
Mateo, who. Was mentioned earlier. Who was interviewed by TbT

1538
01:42:34,410 --> 01:42:40,760
News last month. I'm wondering if you are hypocrites. His

1539
01:42:40,760 --> 01:42:44,600
words, and I hope you're. Much more than that. But

1540
01:42:44,600 --> 01:42:48,649
here's a quote from the interview. There is a certain

1541
01:42:48,649 --> 01:42:54,162
amount of hypocrisy where city counselors argue. How important fighting

1542
01:42:54,162 --> 01:42:58,202
climate change is. And then when push comes to shove,

1543
01:42:58,202 --> 01:43:02,166
they find a piece of green space. Because it's convenient

1544
01:43:02,166 --> 01:43:06,749
and go after the short term funding from governments. End

1545
01:43:06,749 --> 01:43:11,380
of quote. I hope this is not the kind of

1546
01:43:11,380 --> 01:43:14,900
people that you truly are, but I'd like to know

1547
01:43:14,900 --> 01:43:17,620
what are the reasons why you would choose to destroy

1548
01:43:17,620 --> 01:43:23,328
green spaces rather. Than to focus. On existing urban areas.

1549
01:43:24,896 --> 01:43:30,416
Because, as stated by Dr. Di Mateo, prioritizing urban areas

1550
01:43:30,416 --> 01:43:32,816
should be a number one priority. When it comes to

1551
01:43:32,816 --> 01:43:39,191
building. Not only because Danton areas must be revitalized, but

1552
01:43:39,191 --> 01:43:42,631
also because there are absolutely no reasons to destroy green

1553
01:43:42,631 --> 01:43:46,311
spaces which are vital and precious to all of us.

1554
01:43:49,841 --> 01:43:52,081
so maybe you could tell us why this is not

1555
01:43:52,081 --> 01:43:54,239
the case There are plenty of urban areas in our

1556
01:43:54,239 --> 01:43:59,159
city which could be used and are already properly zoned

1557
01:43:59,159 --> 01:44:05,060
where. Services and amenities already exist. Seems to me that

1558
01:44:05,060 --> 01:44:08,860
will make financial sense. Here are a few examples that

1559
01:44:08,860 --> 01:44:14,891
I've heard of. The former Paul six land. It's a

1560
01:44:14,891 --> 01:44:20,011
land that is underused waterfront parcel. It's mostly city owned

1561
01:44:20,011 --> 01:44:25,051
and has been identified for redevelopment. Its location near Danton

1562
01:44:25,051 --> 01:44:30,131
and the waterfront makes it attractive for large residential development

1563
01:44:30,131 --> 01:44:33,798
like the ones you proposed today. Without the same scale

1564
01:44:33,798 --> 01:44:38,668
of impact on local residents. Simpson street has also been

1565
01:44:38,668 --> 01:44:43,068
an area in great need of revitalization for many years.

1566
01:44:44,333 --> 01:44:48,293
And also has the advantages of existing services and amenities.

1567
01:44:49,632 --> 01:44:53,072
I'm pretty sure there are more in the city, more

1568
01:44:53,072 --> 01:45:00,347
areas that qualify. That are just empty spaces already. With

1569
01:45:00,347 --> 01:45:05,423
Ezvalt no loss of green spaces. So can you please

1570
01:45:05,423 --> 01:45:08,823
consider the two properties I just mentioned, as well as

1571
01:45:08,823 --> 01:45:14,343
other urban areas which would not imply destroying green spaces.

1572
01:45:14,343 --> 01:45:18,626
And if not, can you tell us why? But here's

1573
01:45:18,626 --> 01:45:22,026
my main worry and my main concern. The four proposals.

1574
01:45:24,258 --> 01:45:28,162
With which were faced today revealed a trend. And a

1575
01:45:28,162 --> 01:45:32,127
very unhealthy one, in my opinion. All of us who

1576
01:45:32,127 --> 01:45:36,265
feel that green spaces are essential. We need to know.

1577
01:45:37,467 --> 01:45:42,355
Where and when will you city planners. Ever stop even

1578
01:45:42,355 --> 01:45:46,915
thinking about cutting down viral green spaces? When and where

1579
01:45:46,915 --> 01:45:50,555
will you stop this trend? And if you continue with

1580
01:45:50,555 --> 01:45:55,641
this trend, How much more vital green spaces do you

1581
01:45:55,641 --> 01:46:00,218
plan on selling? Do you plan on? These 600 units,

1582
01:46:00,218 --> 01:46:06,283
for example. As only being the beginning. Because. We know

1583
01:46:06,283 --> 01:46:11,087
that the lph. Forest are right next door to the

1584
01:46:11,087 --> 01:46:17,120
one that you are proposing, right? So, talking about the

1585
01:46:17,120 --> 01:46:22,424
former LPH land. We, the people, would like to see

1586
01:46:22,424 --> 01:46:26,584
it used wisely in ways that will preserve its beauty.

1587
01:46:27,898 --> 01:46:32,818
Its diversity and its wilderness and its usefulness, because we

1588
01:46:32,818 --> 01:46:36,378
know it's widely used by hundreds of people and animals.

1589
01:46:38,184 --> 01:46:41,835
There's plenty of space there to build. Without destroying green

1590
01:46:41,835 --> 01:46:46,507
spaces. And I know this property belongs to the province.

1591
01:46:48,841 --> 01:46:51,401
But I believe that one of the tasks of city

1592
01:46:51,401 --> 01:46:57,529
council is to protect its people. From unwanted demands coming

1593
01:46:57,529 --> 01:47:02,763
from upper levels of government. So I ask you today,

1594
01:47:02,763 --> 01:47:07,052
are you willing to show your allegiance to us? The

1595
01:47:07,052 --> 01:47:11,612
people and to protect our green spaces. Even if the

1596
01:47:11,612 --> 01:47:18,301
provincial government decides to destroy our precious forests. I'm asking.

1597
01:47:19,355 --> 01:47:22,795
This of you send the province who owns most of

1598
01:47:22,795 --> 01:47:26,916
this land and was planning for its future. A very

1599
01:47:26,916 --> 01:47:31,156
clear message. Our green spaces are not for sale because

1600
01:47:31,156 --> 01:47:36,126
they matter. Green spaces are not a luxury. They are

1601
01:47:36,126 --> 01:47:41,110
human need. If you have a copy of my deputation,

1602
01:47:41,110 --> 01:47:48,286
you could see that my questions are highlighted. If you

1603
01:47:48,286 --> 01:47:52,366
don't answer them today, please answer them later, maybe through

1604
01:47:52,366 --> 01:48:01,307
email. I trust that. You are not hypocrites. And you

1605
01:48:01,307 --> 01:48:05,148
will find solutions. There are always solutions to every problems.

1606
01:48:07,050 --> 01:48:11,326
I'm not against growth, and I'm not against. Change. I

1607
01:48:11,326 --> 01:48:14,286
know you have deadlines to meet in order to receive

1608
01:48:14,286 --> 01:48:18,532
the fundings. I know new housing is needed, but as

1609
01:48:18,532 --> 01:48:21,652
one of the people who pay your salary, I urge

1610
01:48:21,652 --> 01:48:26,246
you to hear the call. Full of hope. From the

1611
01:48:26,246 --> 01:48:30,081
men and women who live in this city. And this

1612
01:48:30,081 --> 01:48:34,330
call is very clear. Stop allowing the destruction of green

1613
01:48:34,330 --> 01:48:40,418
spaces in our city and. With your heart. Please envision

1614
01:48:40,418 --> 01:48:45,144
the future in which. You wish your grandchildren to live?

1615
01:48:46,475 --> 01:48:50,600
Thank you for listening to me today. Thank you for

1616
01:48:50,600 --> 01:48:54,760
making decisions which will affect the future in the most

1617
01:48:54,760 --> 01:48:59,223
positive and humane way possible. I know this is a

1618
01:48:59,223 --> 01:49:03,543
long shot, but I'm trying to appeal to your conscience

1619
01:49:03,543 --> 01:49:05,463
and. In the name of God, I urge you to

1620
01:49:05,463 --> 01:49:09,823
use your powers to better the life of your people

1621
01:49:09,823 --> 01:49:13,996
and the needs of a sustainable future. Thank you so

1622
01:49:13,996 --> 01:49:20,534
much for your deputation. Is there any questions? Seeing none.

1623
01:49:20,534 --> 01:49:24,305
You may return. Thank you so much. Kirk Walters, please.

1624
01:49:26,817 --> 01:49:29,377
Yes, I'm on the agenda. There was a written deputation

1625
01:49:29,377 --> 01:49:32,217
received from Brittany Houston. On November the 25th for information.

1626
01:49:33,993 --> 01:49:37,073
Next, please. Final deputation of the evening is correspondence received

1627
01:49:37,073 --> 01:49:40,553
from David Tremonte on November the 27th, and this item

1628
01:49:40,553 --> 01:49:42,753
was distributed separately on November the 20 eigth.

1629
01:49:51,121 --> 01:49:53,201
Good evening. And when you're ready, you'll have ten minutes.

1630
01:49:58,656 --> 01:50:03,312
Thank you, councilor mayor. There. I do have a petition

1631
01:50:03,312 --> 01:50:08,881
for the Fanshaw location there properly located at 144. The

1632
01:50:08,881 --> 01:50:11,881
majority is to not declare the property as surplus property.

1633
01:50:13,754 --> 01:50:15,674
I'll leave it there and stuff like that. I don't

1634
01:50:15,674 --> 01:50:18,914
feel the need to. Reiterate or regurgitate what all my

1635
01:50:18,914 --> 01:50:22,121
citizens there said. We are in fascia in the Northwood

1636
01:50:22,121 --> 01:50:26,096
area. Pretty much par for the course with that. We

1637
01:50:26,096 --> 01:50:30,662
all want a house for everyone's head there. But I

1638
01:50:30,662 --> 01:50:34,062
just don't think the majority are the size of the

1639
01:50:34,062 --> 01:50:38,220
complex that we're deciding upon which again. Is all based

1640
01:50:38,220 --> 01:50:42,467
on speculation. There. But. We don't think that the most

1641
01:50:42,467 --> 01:50:45,907
concern is the traffic and the sewage drainage for that.

1642
01:50:45,907 --> 01:50:53,381
Area. And. Until. More tests. Or. Research is done because

1643
01:50:53,381 --> 01:50:57,696
I believe that we had some issues. When the fans

1644
01:50:57,696 --> 01:51:03,140
condos went first. Back in 510 years ago, whenever. That's

1645
01:51:03,140 --> 01:51:07,294
about it. Okay. Thank you so much. Is there any

1646
01:51:07,294 --> 01:51:12,234
questions? Okay. See none. Thank you, Mr. Jamanti. You may

1647
01:51:12,234 --> 01:51:17,471
return. Clerk Walters, please. So, chair, we do have to

1648
01:51:17,471 --> 01:51:20,271
put the report itself on the floor, do you? Want

1649
01:51:20,271 --> 01:51:23,431
me to read what it is? Please. Okay, so the

1650
01:51:23,431 --> 01:51:27,271
report is with respect to report 384. 2025. We request

1651
01:51:27,271 --> 01:51:29,311
endorsement of the standing committee to forward with the following

1652
01:51:29,311 --> 01:51:35,461
recommendations to city council that the city. 's interest in

1653
01:51:35,461 --> 01:51:39,101
the Vainton property known as 144 Fanshaw street, along with

1654
01:51:39,101 --> 01:51:43,981
300 Tokyo. Street 211 to 223 Tupper street and 224

1655
01:51:43,981 --> 01:51:49,488
Campbell on Street 791 Arundel Street. Surplus as the city's

1656
01:51:49,488 --> 01:51:52,608
requirements pursuant to policies and be designated as an area

1657
01:51:52,608 --> 01:51:55,488
I've cite plan control that is now on the floor.

1658
01:51:55,488 --> 01:51:58,528
I do need the mover and a seconder. Okay. Councilor

1659
01:51:58,528 --> 01:52:07,718
trini, councilor Agua, please. Speakers. Any questions? Administration. May I

1660
01:52:07,718 --> 01:52:11,810
ask if we can separate all the properties? Or instead

1661
01:52:11,810 --> 01:52:15,090
of having them as one bulk vote on them separately,

1662
01:52:15,090 --> 01:52:19,714
please, if we could. Okay, we can do that. Questions.

1663
01:52:19,714 --> 01:52:23,074
Administration. Councilor treaty, I think you had. Yes. Thank you.

1664
01:52:23,074 --> 01:52:30,389
Thank you. Through the chair. administration we're hearing a lot

1665
01:52:30,389 --> 01:52:32,683
of concerns of course about traffic and drainage And water

1666
01:52:32,683 --> 01:52:37,841
pressure and environmental concerns. We have a good audience here

1667
01:52:37,841 --> 01:52:42,484
tonight. And we know the terminology, site plan control, but

1668
01:52:42,484 --> 01:52:45,444
that doesn't necessarily mean our citizens know. What that means.

1669
01:52:47,652 --> 01:52:50,092
Would someone mind elaborating on what site plan control means?

1670
01:52:50,092 --> 01:52:53,335
Because. It doesn't really define what that is. And I

1671
01:52:53,335 --> 01:52:55,575
think some of the people in our audience today think

1672
01:52:55,575 --> 01:52:57,215
that they needed to speak up to say we needed

1673
01:52:57,215 --> 01:53:02,676
to do some of these. Testing and those pieces. Be

1674
01:53:02,676 --> 01:53:10,769
pleased to. So, site plan control. Is essentially. An agreement

1675
01:53:10,769 --> 01:53:14,409
results in agreement between the city and a developer that

1676
01:53:14,409 --> 01:53:22,373
outslines how a development. Will appear and function. Essentially. The

1677
01:53:22,373 --> 01:53:28,318
actual development proposal is attached an agreement. And decided that.

1678
01:53:29,767 --> 01:53:32,487
This is the development that ultimately will result. So the

1679
01:53:32,487 --> 01:53:37,647
site plan control agreement details things like drainage works access.

1680
01:53:39,039 --> 01:53:45,225
Traffic circulation. And often requires supporting studies to ensure that

1681
01:53:45,225 --> 01:53:54,096
the development will not have. An impact on. Infrastructure and

1682
01:53:54,096 --> 01:53:59,296
amenities that cannot be mitigated. Thank you for that. So

1683
01:53:59,296 --> 01:54:02,216
my second question with regards to a bit of. I

1684
01:54:02,216 --> 01:54:05,216
think it's under site plan control, truthfully, but we've also

1685
01:54:05,216 --> 01:54:08,232
heard tonight, and I'm going to talk in general. Because

1686
01:54:08,232 --> 01:54:11,472
three of the properties have been really discussed this evening

1687
01:54:11,472 --> 01:54:17,396
about privacy and noise buffers. Three properties already have tree

1688
01:54:17,396 --> 01:54:23,573
lines there. Is there any potential for the city declaring

1689
01:54:23,573 --> 01:54:25,693
some of the property from the back of the properties?

1690
01:54:27,104 --> 01:54:29,944
Of the adjacent houses to a certain line to be

1691
01:54:29,944 --> 01:54:35,842
able to help with that privacy. Drainage. Keeping the trees

1692
01:54:35,842 --> 01:54:38,842
there is what I'm asking. Is there any possible way

1693
01:54:38,842 --> 01:54:44,388
that we could. Do that. In what's being available. This

1694
01:54:44,388 --> 01:54:53,320
process. Resist. And that feedback was sought throughout the process,

1695
01:54:53,320 --> 01:54:56,520
and we very much appreciate all the people that have

1696
01:54:56,520 --> 01:55:01,218
come to present tonight and have submitted. Their thoughts and

1697
01:55:01,218 --> 01:55:05,668
comments to the city in different forms. These comments are

1698
01:55:05,668 --> 01:55:08,308
absolutely are being taken back and will be taken back

1699
01:55:08,308 --> 01:55:11,708
to discuss with the developers. Should counsel declare these lions

1700
01:55:11,708 --> 01:55:15,988
surplus and we will be looking to address these concerns

1701
01:55:15,988 --> 01:55:21,809
through the development. Of the eventual site plan. So the

1702
01:55:21,809 --> 01:55:26,125
site plan. The concepts that are being, that we have

1703
01:55:26,125 --> 01:55:30,053
been speaking about are just that. They are concepts. That

1704
01:55:30,053 --> 01:55:34,445
express the interests of a development developer. To construct to

1705
01:55:34,445 --> 01:55:39,964
a scale. So the staff will be reviewing these comments

1706
01:55:39,964 --> 01:55:43,635
with the developers and intend to come back. With a

1707
01:55:43,635 --> 01:55:50,792
more refined development that takes these comments. Into account. So

1708
01:55:50,792 --> 01:55:56,879
the trail is a good example. Certainly. There's opportunity to

1709
01:55:56,879 --> 01:56:03,394
realign the trail and to provide. A buffer, given that

1710
01:56:03,394 --> 01:56:05,634
the property is of such size and that will be

1711
01:56:05,634 --> 01:56:08,754
discussed with developer. Thank you. That's for that one. But

1712
01:56:08,754 --> 01:56:10,714
the other two also have tree lines, so I'm. Hoping

1713
01:56:10,714 --> 01:56:12,834
we'll be able to do the same. And then my

1714
01:56:12,834 --> 01:56:15,942
final and third question. I appreciate the people in our

1715
01:56:15,942 --> 01:56:19,302
audience today in our gallery and their concerns with these.

1716
01:56:19,302 --> 01:56:21,862
And again, we've heard from the three sites. Not the

1717
01:56:21,862 --> 01:56:24,822
fourth today, but we also have some background. On the

1718
01:56:24,822 --> 01:56:28,584
fourth. A lot of the people in these areas feel

1719
01:56:28,584 --> 01:56:31,544
like they're being picked on that the city is only

1720
01:56:31,544 --> 01:56:35,704
looking at those areas. And I just want to confirm,

1721
01:56:35,704 --> 01:56:38,584
because I've seen lists. We are looking at other areas

1722
01:56:38,584 --> 01:56:41,104
and other lands in the city for surplus. It's not

1723
01:56:41,104 --> 01:56:45,224
just these four areas. This is a continuous, ongoing review.

1724
01:56:45,224 --> 01:56:48,025
It's not one and done. And I just want to

1725
01:56:48,025 --> 01:56:53,889
confirm that, please. Ask manager Walker to respond. Through the

1726
01:56:53,889 --> 01:56:57,374
chair. That is correct. We have for us since 2023,

1727
01:56:57,374 --> 01:57:00,414
but undergoing an exercise to identify city owned lands for

1728
01:57:00,414 --> 01:57:03,774
housing and we brought various reports before council to that

1729
01:57:03,774 --> 01:57:06,854
effect, including the extent of lands we've looked at. We

1730
01:57:06,854 --> 01:57:09,094
also review our land holdings on an annual basis to

1731
01:57:09,094 --> 01:57:13,774
determine additional lands that are no longer required for active

1732
01:57:13,774 --> 01:57:16,562
municipal use or things that might be. Suitable to look

1733
01:57:16,562 --> 01:57:21,745
at surplusing for housing. City manager, please? Sure. If I

1734
01:57:21,745 --> 01:57:25,625
may. Through you. Just to supplement that, there is no

1735
01:57:25,625 --> 01:57:29,585
doubt that. We are still focused on intensification or densification,

1736
01:57:29,585 --> 01:57:32,625
whichever word you want to use. In the urban course.

1737
01:57:32,625 --> 01:57:35,745
That's where most of our incentive programs exist, and that's

1738
01:57:35,745 --> 01:57:39,805
where the priority is. However, we also need to. Take

1739
01:57:39,805 --> 01:57:43,525
advantage of opportunities as they present themselves. We put out

1740
01:57:43,525 --> 01:57:48,125
requests for development proposals, and these four developments came to

1741
01:57:48,125 --> 01:57:51,485
the fore. We need to pursue all options as we

1742
01:57:51,485 --> 01:57:54,965
go forward, not to meet. Half targets, not to get

1743
01:57:54,965 --> 01:57:58,725
the next half incentive. That is not our motivation at

1744
01:57:58,725 --> 01:58:05,152
all. Our. Motivation is to ensure. We have sufficient housing

1745
01:58:05,152 --> 01:58:08,362
within the city, thank you. Thank you very much for

1746
01:58:08,362 --> 01:58:16,273
that answer. Any further speakers Council Agarwell, please. Thank you

1747
01:58:16,273 --> 01:58:20,175
very much. Chair. I have a couple of questions. I

1748
01:58:20,175 --> 01:58:25,619
just like one major point clarification. One of the deputies

1749
01:58:25,619 --> 01:58:31,492
made a comment. Cody Lane in regards to. A media

1750
01:58:31,492 --> 01:58:38,892
release. A vote. Can you please clarify? City manager. Calling

1751
01:58:38,892 --> 01:58:43,212
that 10,000 per acre. These are the self sustaining for

1752
01:58:43,212 --> 01:58:49,386
land, 10,000 per acre revenue. For single family and $100,000

1753
01:58:49,386 --> 01:58:55,697
an acre for multi residential. I'm kind of confused because

1754
01:58:55,697 --> 01:59:02,640
an acre of land being 43,000 sqft. Would generate more

1755
01:59:02,640 --> 01:59:06,352
than. One house or two houses, which would not be

1756
01:59:06,352 --> 01:59:10,870
10,000. Dollars in revenue. I'm not sure. I didn't see

1757
01:59:10,870 --> 01:59:14,270
that news article, so I don't. Know where that commentary

1758
01:59:14,270 --> 01:59:17,365
came from. Chair through you. I do know that city

1759
01:59:17,365 --> 01:59:21,085
manager Colin did step out of the room temporarily during

1760
01:59:21,085 --> 01:59:25,605
the deputation. I don't have those specific numbers today, but

1761
01:59:25,605 --> 01:59:30,091
certainly that is something. That. I can report back to

1762
01:59:30,091 --> 01:59:33,291
the gross standing and confirm those numbers, but what we

1763
01:59:33,291 --> 01:59:37,531
can say is we know that multi residential construction has

1764
01:59:37,531 --> 01:59:40,731
a greater return on investment as compared to single family

1765
01:59:40,731 --> 01:59:42,931
residential. Homes, and I believe that that was what the

1766
01:59:42,931 --> 01:59:46,578
deputy was referring to. Okay? I have a concern about.

1767
01:59:48,559 --> 01:59:54,598
The commentary only because. The $10,000. A square per acre.

1768
01:59:56,711 --> 01:59:59,191
Would actually yield seven homes and seven homes in new

1769
01:59:59,191 --> 02:00:04,351
construction in today's world would bring about $35,000 a year

1770
02:00:04,351 --> 02:00:07,711
in income based on the 43,000 sqft, which is an

1771
02:00:07,711 --> 02:00:10,191
acre is and which would yield for the 50 x

1772
02:00:10,191 --> 02:00:12,551
120 lots. I just want to make sure the information

1773
02:00:12,551 --> 02:00:13,911
is clear. I don't know if it was said or

1774
02:00:13,911 --> 02:00:18,774
not because. I did not hear the. News broadcast. So

1775
02:00:18,774 --> 02:00:21,734
that just would like that to have that. If we

1776
02:00:21,734 --> 02:00:25,635
are messaging, we should be correct on our messaging. My

1777
02:00:25,635 --> 02:00:30,079
next question is. There has been commentary for many years

1778
02:00:30,079 --> 02:00:37,429
about overpasses coming over our highway, our 1117. Possibly at

1779
02:00:37,429 --> 02:00:46,127
red river, at john street. At. Oliver. At the major

1780
02:00:46,127 --> 02:00:53,171
intersections. The property in question about John Tokyo. Have we

1781
02:00:53,171 --> 02:00:56,171
looked at the potential of. I don't know where we

1782
02:00:56,171 --> 02:00:59,091
are in communications with the ministry of transportation. If an

1783
02:00:59,091 --> 02:01:04,335
overpass is coming there. What kind of traffic impact that

1784
02:01:04,335 --> 02:01:11,501
would cause if. Any. Spanish award can respond. Thank you.

1785
02:01:11,501 --> 02:01:15,759
Through the chair. The Ministry of Transportation is proposing John

1786
02:01:15,759 --> 02:01:19,223
Street Road to be a flyover in the future. When

1787
02:01:19,223 --> 02:01:20,623
in the future? We don't know. Of course, as that's

1788
02:01:20,623 --> 02:01:23,863
what the province. To decide that. But in the end,

1789
02:01:23,863 --> 02:01:27,743
there will not be any direct highway access from John

1790
02:01:27,743 --> 02:01:31,063
in the future. That being said, that's where the northwest

1791
02:01:31,063 --> 02:01:36,103
arterial also comes into play, and the future interchange proposed

1792
02:01:36,103 --> 02:01:40,149
near golflinks and Riviera as well to provide another. Connection.

1793
02:01:40,149 --> 02:01:44,512
That being said, The exact traffic implications to every intersection

1794
02:01:44,512 --> 02:01:47,392
along that corridor when that happens are not fully known

1795
02:01:47,392 --> 02:01:49,352
as it is a long term project and these things

1796
02:01:49,352 --> 02:01:52,152
will have to be monitored as well. We have had

1797
02:01:52,152 --> 02:01:54,632
some recent meetings with the Ministry of Transportation around these

1798
02:01:54,632 --> 02:01:57,672
exact topics. Given that they are advancing some of their

1799
02:01:57,672 --> 02:02:01,192
preliminary designs, and we've asked those same questions to get

1800
02:02:01,192 --> 02:02:03,848
more information around. The direct. Impacts to our intersections as

1801
02:02:03,848 --> 02:02:06,408
a result of their proposed works, and those conversations are

1802
02:02:06,408 --> 02:02:11,687
ongoing. Okay, so. This intersection where we're looking at. The

1803
02:02:11,687 --> 02:02:16,887
proposed 300 Tokyo is quite close to that area, so

1804
02:02:16,887 --> 02:02:20,799
if that is a designated overpass, The traffic will definitely

1805
02:02:20,799 --> 02:02:24,626
be increasing because that would no longer have access. Into

1806
02:02:24,626 --> 02:02:31,803
the expressway. That is a concern to me. And the

1807
02:02:31,803 --> 02:02:36,143
last question would be into the parks we've invested. How

1808
02:02:36,143 --> 02:02:39,823
long ago did we invest into that trail that paved.

1809
02:02:41,784 --> 02:02:49,260
And lit. On the. 791 rendell street so there's been

1810
02:02:49,260 --> 02:02:53,675
a substantial investment by the city Into that trail piece.

1811
02:02:53,675 --> 02:02:56,115
How long ago was it? And how much maintenance have

1812
02:02:56,115 --> 02:03:01,245
we done? Into that area. Through the chair. I don't

1813
02:03:01,245 --> 02:03:08,658
remember the exact date. It was around the 2015. It

1814
02:03:08,658 --> 02:03:13,258
was part of a grant project through Transcanada trail, so

1815
02:03:13,258 --> 02:03:17,017
I think we paid for half of it. And the

1816
02:03:17,017 --> 02:03:21,779
transgender trail paid the other half. That trail. There's not

1817
02:03:21,779 --> 02:03:24,899
really a magic to it being in that exact location.

1818
02:03:24,899 --> 02:03:28,720
It can move around in space a bit. To suit

1819
02:03:28,720 --> 02:03:32,160
the development and work with the developer to make sure

1820
02:03:32,160 --> 02:03:35,760
that that access is still maintained. Both from Toledo and

1821
02:03:35,760 --> 02:03:45,437
Arundo. Thank you, your worship, please. Thank you, speaker. My

1822
02:03:45,437 --> 02:03:52,842
questions. Will be primarily. On our comparators to other municipalities

1823
02:03:52,842 --> 02:03:59,184
our size, both provincially and nationally, because. We from our

1824
02:03:59,184 --> 02:04:03,722
marketing standpoint. I'm under the understanding that we market the

1825
02:04:03,722 --> 02:04:07,882
fact that we have a high percentage of zoned recreational

1826
02:04:07,882 --> 02:04:13,585
area. Areas as well as facilities. And that goes to.

1827
02:04:16,491 --> 02:04:21,968
Say? Unidentified non specified green spaces, as well as lengthy

1828
02:04:21,968 --> 02:04:27,767
parks and trails that people can use. So anybody from

1829
02:04:27,767 --> 02:04:32,167
administration want to address that issue of where we stand

1830
02:04:32,167 --> 02:04:40,726
in terms of. National. Comparators. For such facilities and benefits.

1831
02:04:43,059 --> 02:04:48,219
I'll begin to answer and ask Supervisor Schwarz to add

1832
02:04:48,219 --> 02:04:51,539
to this. So Thunder Bay. Absolutely. Prides itself in its

1833
02:04:51,539 --> 02:04:57,678
high quality of life. And it's a great service that

1834
02:04:57,678 --> 02:05:02,438
it provides in terms of active and passive parkland. And

1835
02:05:02,438 --> 02:05:09,152
active transportation networks. The Thunder bay does have a relatively

1836
02:05:09,152 --> 02:05:13,266
high proportion. Of open space parkland in comparison to some

1837
02:05:13,266 --> 02:05:20,235
other municipalities and Alaska supervisors. Schwartz Library. So the next

1838
02:05:20,235 --> 02:05:27,071
logical question. Is. The sign that we're familiar with. Outside

1839
02:05:27,071 --> 02:05:35,369
the city. has above 100,000 but Not quite. Achieving what

1840
02:05:35,369 --> 02:05:38,609
we believe in other circles, whether it's the dsobs or

1841
02:05:38,609 --> 02:05:44,191
some of these. Health units that our population. Is somewhat

1842
02:05:44,191 --> 02:05:47,871
over 150,000. We hear that more and more frequently from

1843
02:05:47,871 --> 02:05:52,099
the boards and committees. That we are on. How will

1844
02:05:52,099 --> 02:05:56,299
we ever get some acknowledgment about what our population is

1845
02:05:56,299 --> 02:06:05,036
so that these issues. Of financing. Are addressed because. This

1846
02:06:05,036 --> 02:06:10,003
is one of our justifications for infilling. Chair through you

1847
02:06:10,003 --> 02:06:14,596
to his worship. This point was brought up by several

1848
02:06:14,596 --> 02:06:17,836
counselors, including the mayor, during our discussions on the smart

1849
02:06:17,836 --> 02:06:20,916
growth action plan when it was first introduced, which led

1850
02:06:20,916 --> 02:06:24,516
to an additional action item being inserted into the plan

1851
02:06:24,516 --> 02:06:29,564
to try to. Better. Represent the real population of the

1852
02:06:29,564 --> 02:06:32,444
city of Thunder Bay. The how we will go about

1853
02:06:32,444 --> 02:06:35,124
doing that. Has yet to be determined. Again, the smart

1854
02:06:35,124 --> 02:06:38,324
growth action plan is the what and the why. The

1855
02:06:38,324 --> 02:06:41,004
how has to follow. Clearly, we have to work in

1856
02:06:41,004 --> 02:06:44,284
close collaboration with Statscan for that because we can put

1857
02:06:44,284 --> 02:06:46,724
whatever number we want up on the signs, but unless

1858
02:06:46,724 --> 02:06:50,785
the federal. Government agrees with that number. We're not going

1859
02:06:50,785 --> 02:06:54,225
to get any additional funding. So it is identified within

1860
02:06:54,225 --> 02:06:56,785
the smart gross action plan as one of the items

1861
02:06:56,785 --> 02:07:00,800
that we need to address as we move forward. Then

1862
02:07:00,800 --> 02:07:05,070
my third question would be. Can we meet any of

1863
02:07:05,070 --> 02:07:10,865
our targets with just single family units? And how much.

1864
02:07:12,596 --> 02:07:15,717
Money is at stake for us. Chair. I'm going to

1865
02:07:15,717 --> 02:07:20,259
take the first part of this because I think. It's

1866
02:07:20,259 --> 02:07:23,757
a very compelling point. In a good year in the

1867
02:07:23,757 --> 02:07:28,637
city of Thunder Bay, we have averaged between 253 hundred

1868
02:07:28,637 --> 02:07:31,837
units built. Per year, and that's in a good year.

1869
02:07:35,107 --> 02:07:38,587
Just to address the current need. Forget about growth. Just

1870
02:07:38,587 --> 02:07:47,793
to identify to address the current need. We need. 1100

1871
02:07:47,793 --> 02:07:51,993
additional units, and that number grows annually. So we will

1872
02:07:51,993 --> 02:07:54,553
never get there from here if we continue down the

1873
02:07:54,553 --> 02:07:58,153
model we have now of building 250 to 300 units

1874
02:07:58,153 --> 02:08:03,385
a year. We need mass construction to address the need,

1875
02:08:03,385 --> 02:08:07,105
not to address growth to address the need, and then

1876
02:08:07,105 --> 02:08:09,025
after that, we will start to work on the growth.

1877
02:08:10,400 --> 02:08:18,907
Thank you. Thank you. Second round, then councilor Trini. Go

1878
02:08:18,907 --> 02:08:22,187
ahead. Thank you. Thank you. Through the chair. And I

1879
02:08:22,187 --> 02:08:24,107
hope I get a little leniency. On asking this question

1880
02:08:24,107 --> 02:08:27,067
because I know we're talking about surplus lands, but some

1881
02:08:27,067 --> 02:08:29,507
of the citizens that came to the front and asked

1882
02:08:29,507 --> 02:08:34,494
questions about, for example, Simpson street. Why aren't, we. Building

1883
02:08:34,494 --> 02:08:39,700
on Simpson Street. And Growth Committee on November the 25th

1884
02:08:39,700 --> 02:08:44,030
talked about. A new but old. I'll call a revitalized

1885
02:08:44,030 --> 02:08:47,150
program that we have right now. And it's going to

1886
02:08:47,150 --> 02:08:51,550
be enhanced by the spring, which is bacon dilapidated buildings

1887
02:08:51,550 --> 02:08:53,950
program and I'm just wondering if you could. Because we

1888
02:08:53,950 --> 02:08:55,710
can't just go to Simpson street. And say, I want

1889
02:08:55,710 --> 02:08:58,892
this property, this property and this property. We don't own

1890
02:08:58,892 --> 02:09:01,892
the properties. We can't just start. Councilor, this is on.

1891
02:09:01,892 --> 02:09:05,172
Surplus. These individual properties and the developments will come forward.

1892
02:09:06,656 --> 02:09:09,576
At a later date fair, but they were talking about,

1893
02:09:09,576 --> 02:09:12,256
why aren't we building on these? Other sites. And there's

1894
02:09:12,256 --> 02:09:14,936
reasons why it's not just simple. And so I thought,

1895
02:09:14,936 --> 02:09:16,896
I would just. That's why I asked for the leniency

1896
02:09:16,896 --> 02:09:19,550
to say that we. Have a program coming. Thank you.

1897
02:09:22,517 --> 02:09:27,719
Councilor Pascalino, please. Thank you very much. And through chair.

1898
02:09:29,987 --> 02:09:33,867
I realize that growth has to happen in the city.

1899
02:09:36,699 --> 02:09:44,043
It is difficult. And ideally. We would have opportunities, and

1900
02:09:44,043 --> 02:09:47,763
there'd be a lineup for places on Simpson street and

1901
02:09:47,763 --> 02:09:50,883
the people that own the places on Simpson street would

1902
02:09:50,883 --> 02:09:57,916
want to. Build. Massive or in big units. My concern

1903
02:09:57,916 --> 02:10:00,396
as a city councilor, and this is my question to

1904
02:10:00,396 --> 02:10:06,923
administration. Is to make sure. That. What we're going to

1905
02:10:06,923 --> 02:10:12,286
do. Is actually doable, that it works, and I believe

1906
02:10:12,286 --> 02:10:16,440
that that isn't impossible. I think that I've looked at

1907
02:10:16,440 --> 02:10:20,520
other cities that have grown, and it was beneficial to

1908
02:10:20,520 --> 02:10:24,715
them. Milton comes to mind. Was from a small community.

1909
02:10:26,266 --> 02:10:28,106
There are well over 100,000 now, and that was all

1910
02:10:28,106 --> 02:10:34,590
in about 20 years. It's really important that. What we

1911
02:10:34,590 --> 02:10:39,204
do. We do is write, and that. There is. The

1912
02:10:39,204 --> 02:10:42,418
infrastructure to back it up. So a lot of the

1913
02:10:42,418 --> 02:10:44,418
concerns, not all of them, but a lot of the

1914
02:10:44,418 --> 02:10:48,138
concerns of the people in the audience today is they

1915
02:10:48,138 --> 02:10:50,338
want to make sure that when they flush the toilet,

1916
02:10:51,969 --> 02:10:54,009
That things work, that they have water pressure so that

1917
02:10:54,009 --> 02:10:57,737
they can fight fires, so that. There could be road

1918
02:10:57,737 --> 02:11:04,331
infrastructure and sidewalks, because I think. The other thing that

1919
02:11:04,331 --> 02:11:08,518
they talked about also was. Well, we're going to build

1920
02:11:08,518 --> 02:11:13,008
all this housing and. There's not going to be the.

1921
02:11:13,628 --> 02:11:16,308
Businesses close by. But it's like the chicken and the

1922
02:11:16,308 --> 02:11:19,028
egg. What does comes first does the houses come and

1923
02:11:19,028 --> 02:11:22,802
then businesses look at it as an opportunity. So I

1924
02:11:22,802 --> 02:11:26,767
realize that this is new. I will say that no

1925
02:11:26,767 --> 02:11:32,916
matter what we say tonight, Vote it anyway. It's going

1926
02:11:32,916 --> 02:11:38,167
to go through city council and. That will be. Their

1927
02:11:38,167 --> 02:11:42,792
decision, not just the people here. But what I'm asking,

1928
02:11:42,792 --> 02:11:48,339
administration, is that how can we make it clear? That

1929
02:11:48,339 --> 02:11:54,953
we can give. To the people here that are concerned

1930
02:11:54,953 --> 02:12:01,633
about. The logistics of this and how that. It's not

1931
02:12:01,633 --> 02:12:03,433
going to have to be. The worst thing that can

1932
02:12:03,433 --> 02:12:05,793
happen is that we go ahead and build a large

1933
02:12:05,793 --> 02:12:10,014
building. And then think that we're doing it on. Let's

1934
02:12:10,014 --> 02:12:12,374
say we do it on. A shoestring string budget and

1935
02:12:12,374 --> 02:12:14,534
then have to do it over again. So those are

1936
02:12:14,534 --> 02:12:17,054
the things that I think that people are concerned about.

1937
02:12:19,606 --> 02:12:24,034
I know that there are. Huge. Traffic issues on Golf

1938
02:12:24,034 --> 02:12:28,730
links Road. There's a lot of building going there. There's

1939
02:12:28,730 --> 02:12:32,010
a large box store there's. Another mall going in. There's

1940
02:12:32,010 --> 02:12:35,490
1200 units going in on Central Avenue. There's more on

1941
02:12:35,490 --> 02:12:40,130
Burwood. There's another 200 on there, and already I know

1942
02:12:40,130 --> 02:12:44,290
there's. Traffic issues there already. So what I'd like to

1943
02:12:44,290 --> 02:12:49,859
see is that. We on council and administration work together

1944
02:12:49,859 --> 02:12:52,929
to address it. So that you don't need a civil

1945
02:12:52,929 --> 02:12:56,369
engineering degree, but you can see some planning that's. Gone

1946
02:12:56,369 --> 02:13:00,370
into this thing. So maybe you can comment on that.

1947
02:13:00,370 --> 02:13:03,657
Thank you. Chair through you to the councilor, and I

1948
02:13:03,657 --> 02:13:08,539
am going to try to articulate. The views of administration

1949
02:13:08,539 --> 02:13:12,495
in a very simple manner. When a major construction project

1950
02:13:12,495 --> 02:13:16,295
is undertaken, and these will be major construction projects, it's

1951
02:13:16,295 --> 02:13:19,055
not as simple as we want to build. Buy the

1952
02:13:19,055 --> 02:13:22,089
land, and we're going to build it. There are all

1953
02:13:22,089 --> 02:13:24,689
sorts of checks and balances in place, be it traffic

1954
02:13:24,689 --> 02:13:30,609
studies, water studies, wastewater studies that occur as part of

1955
02:13:30,609 --> 02:13:34,929
the normal development process. Before permits would ever be issued,

1956
02:13:34,929 --> 02:13:38,169
there's. Also our site plan control system that we have

1957
02:13:38,169 --> 02:13:40,689
in place, and we've identified that. All four of these

1958
02:13:40,689 --> 02:13:44,133
would be under site plan. Control to address other issues,

1959
02:13:44,133 --> 02:13:49,781
such as access. Beautification, setbacks, et cetera. So all of.

1960
02:13:51,463 --> 02:13:56,924
Those things will happen behind the scenes. And. Approvals are

1961
02:13:56,924 --> 02:14:01,468
required from council, they will come forward to council. The

1962
02:14:01,468 --> 02:14:05,348
process we use for major construction is extremely robust, and

1963
02:14:05,348 --> 02:14:07,588
I would hazard to say that almost all of the

1964
02:14:07,588 --> 02:14:10,268
questions, in fact, I think all of the questions that

1965
02:14:10,268 --> 02:14:13,908
were asked by various deputies this evening. Perfectly legitimate questions.

1966
02:14:15,966 --> 02:14:19,486
And probably without exception, they will all be answered through

1967
02:14:19,486 --> 02:14:24,886
our various mechanisms, studies, reviews and permitting processes that we

1968
02:14:24,886 --> 02:14:27,246
have in place within the city. I'll also make a

1969
02:14:27,246 --> 02:14:33,104
slight diversionary comment. About smart growth. The growth plan that

1970
02:14:33,104 --> 02:14:37,064
is before council for approval tomorrow evening is intentionally called

1971
02:14:37,064 --> 02:14:40,344
a smart growth action. Plan. In it, we talk about

1972
02:14:40,344 --> 02:14:45,864
environmental stewardship, financial sustainability and other key aspects that will

1973
02:14:45,864 --> 02:14:49,144
also be pervasive in all of our processes and procedures.

1974
02:14:49,144 --> 02:14:52,039
So I think. Your concern chair through you to the

1975
02:14:52,039 --> 02:14:56,371
counselor. Is a legitimate one to express. I believe the

1976
02:14:56,371 --> 02:15:00,503
checks and balances are in place to address it. Thank

1977
02:15:00,503 --> 02:15:02,343
you. Second. That was five minutes. You can go on

1978
02:15:02,343 --> 02:15:09,986
a second. Round. Councilor Aguilar, please. thank you I have

1979
02:15:09,986 --> 02:15:12,226
a couple of questions here. Two of the lots in

1980
02:15:12,226 --> 02:15:16,530
particular. One on Tokyo and one on Fanshaw or musk

1981
02:15:16,530 --> 02:15:19,570
ache. The proposed developments that are in front of us.

1982
02:15:19,570 --> 02:15:26,736
Say six stories. Six stories. Would require pile foundation. And

1983
02:15:26,736 --> 02:15:29,736
I know that because 145 Fanshaw was a development that

1984
02:15:29,736 --> 02:15:34,367
I was involved in 1992. The pile foundation will require

1985
02:15:34,367 --> 02:15:39,176
the heavy power length to be pounded in which. Will

1986
02:15:39,176 --> 02:15:44,496
then shock the foundational areas of the neighboring housing. The

1987
02:15:44,496 --> 02:15:47,416
last two buildings that were built at 147 149. Fanshaw

1988
02:15:47,416 --> 02:15:49,936
did not have pile foundation and did not go to

1989
02:15:49,936 --> 02:15:54,528
six stories just for the reasons of piles. Have we

1990
02:15:54,528 --> 02:15:57,408
taken that into consideration or the proponents that come to

1991
02:15:57,408 --> 02:16:01,248
you taking that into consideration? Because the effect of pile

1992
02:16:01,248 --> 02:16:05,611
pounding through that Musc ache for holding the building. Might.

1993
02:16:05,611 --> 02:16:09,501
How that would. Interact with their houses and their foundations.

1994
02:16:09,501 --> 02:16:12,877
Yes. So through the chair, as noted here, we're at

1995
02:16:12,877 --> 02:16:16,814
the. Fairly early stage where we're considering whether this land

1996
02:16:16,814 --> 02:16:21,504
may be available for housing. Any future development of the

1997
02:16:21,504 --> 02:16:24,264
property would be properly designed and engineered in such a

1998
02:16:24,264 --> 02:16:33,361
way that. The foundation is suitable for the soils. So.

1999
02:16:34,108 --> 02:16:37,068
Where pile foundations are required. And they very well would.

2000
02:16:37,068 --> 02:16:41,539
Maybe in this case. And that foundation is engineered and

2001
02:16:41,539 --> 02:16:46,271
reviewed by our team. And there are instances where vibration

2002
02:16:46,271 --> 02:16:52,168
monitoring is. Thank you, chair. On that. My concern is

2003
02:16:52,168 --> 02:16:54,808
that when we brought these parcels that come forward and

2004
02:16:54,808 --> 02:16:57,968
the demonstrations that we have on the land. Show us.

2005
02:16:57,968 --> 02:17:02,128
Six story, heavy density. Right. This should be a forefront

2006
02:17:02,128 --> 02:17:04,368
condition. To be looked at in advance prior to bringing

2007
02:17:04,368 --> 02:17:08,798
it to the public so they know. What kind of

2008
02:17:08,798 --> 02:17:11,478
challenges they may or may not be. The next question

2009
02:17:11,478 --> 02:17:15,656
do I have. Through you, chair is the city. Do

2010
02:17:15,656 --> 02:17:18,696
we, as a city, have what controls other than site

2011
02:17:18,696 --> 02:17:22,310
plan? Control. Do we have in the way of controls

2012
02:17:22,310 --> 02:17:26,430
or guidelines to mitigate the community that has brought forward

2013
02:17:26,430 --> 02:17:30,110
their concerns. How do we mitigate them? Is it only

2014
02:17:30,110 --> 02:17:35,710
site plan control? That. They'll have or is there? Any

2015
02:17:35,710 --> 02:17:39,749
other guideline. Guidelines in place to allow for what they

2016
02:17:39,749 --> 02:17:44,826
brought forward to us today. Well, there are many guidelines

2017
02:17:44,826 --> 02:17:48,506
and strategies that guide development, including the urban design guidelines.

2018
02:17:50,215 --> 02:17:55,020
In this instance. The administration will be taking. The feedback

2019
02:17:55,020 --> 02:17:58,700
away and having discussions with the developer to have a

2020
02:17:58,700 --> 02:18:06,036
preliminary discussion about. How the developer receives. The input that's

2021
02:18:06,036 --> 02:18:10,918
been provided to this point. And me. Be willing to

2022
02:18:10,918 --> 02:18:16,570
adjust the development. To assist with the neighborhood concerns. My

2023
02:18:16,570 --> 02:18:20,429
third question, then, based on that response, Chair. We're looking

2024
02:18:20,429 --> 02:18:25,229
at selling these lands to increase development, increase income growth

2025
02:18:25,229 --> 02:18:28,709
for our community. We have heard that this really high

2026
02:18:28,709 --> 02:18:33,029
extra density is a concern to all these neighborhoods. The

2027
02:18:33,029 --> 02:18:34,869
only one we did not have a concern with was

2028
02:18:34,869 --> 02:18:41,779
the downtown infill core on camel. So the value of

2029
02:18:41,779 --> 02:18:46,030
the land. The value of income to our city. If

2030
02:18:46,030 --> 02:18:50,070
we reduce the density, will it be feasible? Will it?

2031
02:18:50,070 --> 02:18:52,390
Have the same return. And would it have the same

2032
02:18:52,390 --> 02:18:58,111
necessity to make these lots surplus? Through the chair. The

2033
02:18:58,111 --> 02:19:05,650
goal of administration. Is, should counsel declare these land surplus

2034
02:19:05,650 --> 02:19:08,850
to work with a developer to refine a suitable development?

2035
02:19:08,850 --> 02:19:14,320
Proposal for the lands. It may be the case that

2036
02:19:14,320 --> 02:19:17,760
the development needs to be reduced due to what the

2037
02:19:17,760 --> 02:19:20,680
land can sustain and what is appropriate for the neighborhood.

2038
02:19:22,236 --> 02:19:27,267
And that very well may. Affect. Values, including assessment values.

2039
02:19:27,267 --> 02:19:34,092
However, It is an appropriate use of land. Good use

2040
02:19:34,092 --> 02:19:42,117
of existing infrastructure and amenities. Are all important factors which.

2041
02:19:45,330 --> 02:19:50,493
The city. Administration wishes. To find a good fit. Yeah,

2042
02:19:50,493 --> 02:19:53,493
you're allowed more. Three. But that was five minutes. Okay.

2043
02:19:53,493 --> 02:20:02,573
Thank you. Clerk Walters, can we put to first? Councilor

2044
02:20:02,573 --> 02:20:05,916
Pascalino's second round. Thank you very much. And through the

2045
02:20:05,916 --> 02:20:11,673
chair. My question. Is, how does our city rate compare

2046
02:20:11,673 --> 02:20:18,623
to other cities? In Ontario, maybe even northern Ontario with

2047
02:20:18,623 --> 02:20:21,223
the green space. I know that a lot of people.

2048
02:20:23,059 --> 02:20:26,493
Were talking about. They're going to lose their green space.

2049
02:20:28,410 --> 02:20:32,924
By their location. How are we for parks and for

2050
02:20:32,924 --> 02:20:37,200
trails and all of that? So through the chair. We

2051
02:20:37,200 --> 02:20:40,920
have participated in benchmarking studies in the past, and there

2052
02:20:40,920 --> 02:20:45,200
are two metrics for Parkland. So the one is total

2053
02:20:45,200 --> 02:20:51,848
amount of Parkland. And that we score quite high. In

2054
02:20:51,848 --> 02:20:55,328
probably the top ten percentile, but that includes all of

2055
02:20:55,328 --> 02:21:00,888
our undeveloped parkland. So things like Centennial Park, Trowgridge, whole

2056
02:21:00,888 --> 02:21:04,008
Bogart Lake complex that somewhat skews that. And that it

2057
02:21:04,008 --> 02:21:08,900
really increases. Our total amount of parkland per person. The

2058
02:21:08,900 --> 02:21:13,620
second metric is on developed parkland and developed Parkland. We're

2059
02:21:13,620 --> 02:21:21,161
about average. Now further to that response. One of the

2060
02:21:21,161 --> 02:21:25,361
aspects that administration did consider when identifying lands that could

2061
02:21:25,361 --> 02:21:30,121
potentially be declared surplus news. For housing was to review

2062
02:21:30,121 --> 02:21:35,460
the amenity spaces that are nearby. That and the availability

2063
02:21:35,460 --> 02:21:45,335
of infrastructure support the development. Just last

2064
02:21:45,335 --> 02:21:49,358
point, and as what I brought up earlier, Typically what.

2065
02:21:50,937 --> 02:21:56,460
Happens. Like I was talking about the businesses versus. The

2066
02:21:56,460 --> 02:22:00,323
residents. Which one comes first? And is there any comment

2067
02:22:00,323 --> 02:22:04,828
on that? Like. Is this a good way to put

2068
02:22:04,828 --> 02:22:07,588
up the buildings and the residents and then to have.

2069
02:22:09,271 --> 02:22:14,941
The businesses come next. Chair through you. I'll begin. What

2070
02:22:14,941 --> 02:22:18,381
studies have shown is that businesses establish themselves where there's

2071
02:22:18,381 --> 02:22:22,770
a need. If you have a greater population inherently, you

2072
02:22:22,770 --> 02:22:27,471
will have additional businesses that establish themselves. Exactly which businesses

2073
02:22:27,471 --> 02:22:31,911
would establish themselves at these. In proximity to these locations,

2074
02:22:31,911 --> 02:22:34,391
we can't predict. At this point, but when you get

2075
02:22:34,391 --> 02:22:38,711
increased population, there's increased demand for services, and that increases

2076
02:22:38,711 --> 02:22:43,904
businesses. We have heard anecdotally. That a number of businesses

2077
02:22:43,904 --> 02:22:47,264
are supportive of these initiatives because it will bring more

2078
02:22:47,264 --> 02:22:50,984
population into the area around where their business is established.

2079
02:22:53,371 --> 02:22:58,999
And I don't. Know. I think that addresses it. Subject

2080
02:22:58,999 --> 02:23:01,359
to follow on by the councilor. Thank you. Thank you.

2081
02:23:02,569 --> 02:23:08,322
Second round. Your worship. Mayor Poshka, thanks again. We have

2082
02:23:08,322 --> 02:23:12,482
been recognized by the provincial and federal governments and granted.

2083
02:23:15,145 --> 02:23:22,822
Millions of dollars. By meeting targets. What impact would that

2084
02:23:22,822 --> 02:23:28,989
have? On our ability to continue funding. If we decide

2085
02:23:28,989 --> 02:23:34,445
not to keep building. And say. We don't want any

2086
02:23:34,445 --> 02:23:37,525
more population or we don't want better housing for people.

2087
02:23:39,024 --> 02:23:41,664
Chair through you to his worship. Two parts to that

2088
02:23:41,664 --> 02:23:46,165
answer. First of all, to be clear, The motivation behind.

2089
02:23:47,477 --> 02:23:50,437
Asking council to declare these properties surplus is to address

2090
02:23:50,437 --> 02:23:54,197
the housing need, not simply to go chasing money. That

2091
02:23:54,197 --> 02:23:59,201
said. The federal and provincial incentives through the Housing Accelerator

2092
02:23:59,201 --> 02:24:04,155
Fund and the building faster fund. Help in that it

2093
02:24:04,155 --> 02:24:07,635
provides us with funding to provide incentives to build more.

2094
02:24:09,605 --> 02:24:12,565
So if we continue to meet our targets, we get

2095
02:24:12,565 --> 02:24:15,285
all of those incentives and we take that. Money and

2096
02:24:15,285 --> 02:24:18,485
we roll it over into additional incentives to build even

2097
02:24:18,485 --> 02:24:21,485
more housing. But at the end, of the day. Our

2098
02:24:21,485 --> 02:24:25,165
primary objective is not to get money. Our primary objective

2099
02:24:25,165 --> 02:24:28,005
is to build housing. If we achieve targets, we get

2100
02:24:28,005 --> 02:24:33,599
more money. The second part of that is that some

2101
02:24:33,599 --> 02:24:36,279
people have said that that money will always be there.

2102
02:24:37,827 --> 02:24:42,859
Through the other orders of government, provincially and federally. But

2103
02:24:42,859 --> 02:24:49,824
over my time. I have seen ebbs and flows. So

2104
02:24:49,824 --> 02:24:53,408
is there any urgency that. We ensure that we are

2105
02:24:53,408 --> 02:24:57,848
on these lists. With the funding caps, that type of

2106
02:24:57,848 --> 02:25:02,067
thing. Chair through you to his worship. I'll give a

2107
02:25:02,067 --> 02:25:04,787
very short answer. The funding wasn't. There two years ago,

2108
02:25:04,787 --> 02:25:07,827
before half started. So this notion that it will always

2109
02:25:07,827 --> 02:25:13,600
be there, regardless. Of whether we achieve targets. I do

2110
02:25:13,600 --> 02:25:17,227
not believe that would be a valid assertion. Thank you.

2111
02:25:18,971 --> 02:25:23,848
Thank you. Just on first round for myself. I just

2112
02:25:23,848 --> 02:25:25,968
want to let everyone know that this will come to

2113
02:25:25,968 --> 02:25:30,652
council in January. No matter. Whether it's endorsed by this

2114
02:25:30,652 --> 02:25:34,487
committee or not. So that's the process, Mr. Clerk. Am

2115
02:25:34,487 --> 02:25:43,428
I correct? Yes. And then Fanshaw and Arundel. If pastor

2116
02:25:43,428 --> 02:25:48,942
council would require. Zoning changes. So there's been opportunity, there

2117
02:25:48,942 --> 02:25:53,045
would be a public opportunity for more engagement. And conversation

2118
02:25:53,045 --> 02:25:57,327
from the community. So just quickly. I'll let you know

2119
02:25:57,327 --> 02:26:02,567
my thoughts. On tokyo street. I'm going to vote in

2120
02:26:02,567 --> 02:26:03,767
favor of that one. I don't have a problem. With

2121
02:26:03,767 --> 02:26:06,087
that one. I'm going to vote in favor of Tupper

2122
02:26:06,087 --> 02:26:08,767
and Camelot street. I'm going to vote in favor of

2123
02:26:08,767 --> 02:26:12,207
Fanshaw. I'm not going to vote. In favor of rundle.

2124
02:26:12,207 --> 02:26:16,807
Fundamentally, I think it's too large of a development for

2125
02:26:16,807 --> 02:26:21,424
that. Property. But having said that, it still will come

2126
02:26:21,424 --> 02:26:24,344
to council. And then if it passes there, it'll. Have

2127
02:26:24,344 --> 02:26:29,428
to go through a zoning. Process as well, which I

2128
02:26:29,428 --> 02:26:31,948
don't believe I would support either, based on the fact

2129
02:26:31,948 --> 02:26:36,794
that I think. That development is too large. 600 units

2130
02:26:36,794 --> 02:26:40,589
on that area. That's my thoughts. And so I remind

2131
02:26:40,589 --> 02:26:44,229
councilors and your worship that there was only. Three rounds.

2132
02:26:44,229 --> 02:26:47,189
Everyone's had two rounds except myself. It was one. And

2133
02:26:47,189 --> 02:26:49,469
so if you want. To speak to all four properties

2134
02:26:49,469 --> 02:26:52,669
like I just have. You only have one round left

2135
02:26:52,669 --> 02:26:56,994
of five. Minutes, so I just don't want you. Getting

2136
02:26:56,994 --> 02:26:59,554
missing out here. So, Mr. Clerk, can we put the

2137
02:26:59,554 --> 02:27:05,294
first property. On the. It should be a third round.

2138
02:27:05,556 --> 02:27:10,288
Third round. Councilor Janey. Thank you. Through the chair. It's

2139
02:27:10,288 --> 02:27:15,834
very interesting. On your rationale, and I know we're not

2140
02:27:15,834 --> 02:27:19,899
supposed to debate. So tonight is about declaring the land

2141
02:27:19,899 --> 02:27:25,446
surplus, but not about the density. Of that land. So

2142
02:27:25,446 --> 02:27:29,046
for my decision tonight, I will be voting on declaring

2143
02:27:29,046 --> 02:27:33,286
at surplus. But I don't. Agree with 600 properties on

2144
02:27:33,286 --> 02:27:37,068
a rundle. I just want to make that clear. I

2145
02:27:37,068 --> 02:27:42,308
don't necessarily agree with what's been designated as well on

2146
02:27:42,308 --> 02:27:44,428
Juneaut. And I'll use Junot instead of Tokyo. I don't

2147
02:27:44,428 --> 02:27:48,683
know where Tokyo came. From. I'm not 100% sold on

2148
02:27:48,683 --> 02:27:52,123
Fanshaw. I am on the downtown core, but those other

2149
02:27:52,123 --> 02:27:56,398
three properties. I'm not really sold. On the densification of

2150
02:27:56,398 --> 02:27:58,958
them. And so, for that reason, I will be voting

2151
02:27:58,958 --> 02:28:01,038
yes to surplus. But I will be very clear on

2152
02:28:01,038 --> 02:28:04,801
that densification piece. I'd like to see more consistency in

2153
02:28:04,801 --> 02:28:09,661
the neighborhood. I know people talked about. The seniors home

2154
02:28:09,661 --> 02:28:12,861
across the street. I know there's lots to talk about.

2155
02:28:12,861 --> 02:28:16,781
Five stories there's. Lots to talk about. Tree heights on

2156
02:28:16,781 --> 02:28:22,318
multiple properties. And so I'd like to see the densification

2157
02:28:22,318 --> 02:28:26,893
smaller. Recognizing from administration that we do have some targets

2158
02:28:26,893 --> 02:28:29,653
to meet, but also recognizing that we're also looking at

2159
02:28:29,653 --> 02:28:33,973
other properties. So for myself, I'm not going to vote

2160
02:28:33,973 --> 02:28:37,173
no because of what's been predicted as a size. Because.

2161
02:28:39,181 --> 02:28:40,461
I will be very strong that I don't agree with

2162
02:28:40,461 --> 02:28:46,752
those sizes. Thank you for that. Mr clerk. The first

2163
02:28:46,752 --> 02:28:50,592
property is Fanchai, I believe. Yes, correct, chair. So the

2164
02:28:50,592 --> 02:28:53,752
first property is municipally. Known as 144 Fanshaw street, to

2165
02:28:53,752 --> 02:28:57,312
be declared surplus to the city's requirements and designated as

2166
02:28:57,312 --> 02:29:01,295
an area of site pond control. Okay. All those in

2167
02:29:01,295 --> 02:29:07,919
favor? Opposed. Penny, that's carried. Next to property. The second

2168
02:29:07,919 --> 02:29:10,239
property is in municipal known as 300 Tokyo street. Once

2169
02:29:10,239 --> 02:29:12,679
again, it would be to be declared as surplus and

2170
02:29:12,679 --> 02:29:16,889
designated as an area of site fund control. Councilor Aguwal.

2171
02:29:16,889 --> 02:29:21,404
Third round. Yes. Thank you very much, judge. Here. Chair.

2172
02:29:21,404 --> 02:29:23,684
I have a big concern about this property, and the

2173
02:29:23,684 --> 02:29:27,684
concern is not development. The concern is the Ministry of

2174
02:29:27,684 --> 02:29:33,899
Transportation. The Ministry of Transportation. Flyover or overpass, whatever it's

2175
02:29:33,899 --> 02:29:37,099
called, is unknown at this time. It's been designated to

2176
02:29:37,099 --> 02:29:40,899
be there. We don't know, and we cannot predict what

2177
02:29:40,899 --> 02:29:44,699
the traffic will. Be to call this land surplus today

2178
02:29:44,699 --> 02:29:48,511
will be a very big concern because. If the ministry

2179
02:29:48,511 --> 02:29:53,365
has to expropriate or we have to do alternate. Traffic

2180
02:29:53,365 --> 02:29:55,725
monitoring in that area. I think it's best that we

2181
02:29:55,725 --> 02:29:58,525
have better and more concrete. Answers from the Ministry of

2182
02:29:58,525 --> 02:30:02,605
Transportation prior to declaring this property surplus. The land will

2183
02:30:02,605 --> 02:30:06,525
be there once we know what's going on, then we

2184
02:30:06,525 --> 02:30:09,125
should make that surplus at that point or a portion

2185
02:30:09,125 --> 02:30:11,885
of it if we need to have more turning lanes

2186
02:30:11,885 --> 02:30:13,917
or if we need to. Use that land to widen

2187
02:30:13,917 --> 02:30:19,037
the streets or make extra property for our own traffic

2188
02:30:19,037 --> 02:30:22,371
flow in that area. That for me is a concern

2189
02:30:22,371 --> 02:30:27,705
for that lot. The lot. On. Since this is my

2190
02:30:27,705 --> 02:30:32,391
last round of conversation, The lot on Camelot. I love

2191
02:30:32,391 --> 02:30:35,471
that intensification. I love the program and the plan. That's

2192
02:30:35,471 --> 02:30:40,178
come forward. And for current river. We need single family

2193
02:30:40,178 --> 02:30:44,058
homes. We need little wartime homes. We need affordable homes.

2194
02:30:45,599 --> 02:30:49,360
We haven't built or designated. Large parcels of land for

2195
02:30:49,360 --> 02:30:52,440
single families. We heard from the young fellow. He wants

2196
02:30:52,440 --> 02:30:55,724
to buy a home. He's not buying an apartment or

2197
02:30:55,724 --> 02:30:59,764
moving an apartment. We have lots of apartments coming up.

2198
02:30:59,764 --> 02:31:03,204
That area is surrounded by single family homes. One of

2199
02:31:03,204 --> 02:31:05,604
the other ladies that I think was the second lady

2200
02:31:05,604 --> 02:31:12,295
that spoke, who had all the data. She mentioned. A

2201
02:31:12,295 --> 02:31:17,368
very mixed use. Lower intensification. Keeping the trails. Make that

2202
02:31:17,368 --> 02:31:23,375
connectivity. For me. I'm in favor of lower density blend

2203
02:31:23,375 --> 02:31:27,415
of mix of single family. Yeah, it doesn't bring as

2204
02:31:27,415 --> 02:31:30,335
many taxes, but it gives the quality of life that

2205
02:31:30,335 --> 02:31:33,655
Thunder Bay has. Been known for. Thunder Bay is a

2206
02:31:33,655 --> 02:31:36,895
single family residential home where you can move here and

2207
02:31:36,895 --> 02:31:39,674
buy a home that you can call your own. You

2208
02:31:39,674 --> 02:31:41,474
want to move to Toronto and live in an apartment,

2209
02:31:41,474 --> 02:31:44,034
you can afford to do that there. Because our rental

2210
02:31:44,034 --> 02:31:46,674
apartment costs are about the same as the Toronto apartment

2211
02:31:46,674 --> 02:31:52,093
costs right now. We need more apartments. But with the

2212
02:31:52,093 --> 02:31:55,413
apartments, there is no more rent control. Anything built after

2213
02:31:55,413 --> 02:32:01,279
2018. Does not have a rent control. So new apartment

2214
02:32:01,279 --> 02:32:06,844
development for intensification for affordable housing. It's not there, we

2215
02:32:06,844 --> 02:32:12,902
have no guarantee. Because new construction does not allow. Rental

2216
02:32:12,902 --> 02:32:17,524
caps like they did prior to the 2018 construction. My

2217
02:32:17,524 --> 02:32:23,315
concern is removing ourselves. From the strategy of what Thunder

2218
02:32:23,315 --> 02:32:26,836
Bay has been known for. Single family homes, a home

2219
02:32:26,836 --> 02:32:29,796
to call your own and make it that we need

2220
02:32:29,796 --> 02:32:34,077
the blend we need some apartments. And one of the

2221
02:32:34,077 --> 02:32:37,757
deputies did speak about freeing up a home, having seniors

2222
02:32:37,757 --> 02:32:40,757
move out of their home into an apartment. That's important

2223
02:32:40,757 --> 02:32:43,837
too. We need homes for the youth, but the 25.

2224
02:32:43,837 --> 02:32:46,357
Year old gentleman that was here. We don't have them.

2225
02:32:48,122 --> 02:32:53,639
Departments, aren't it? So I will vote in favor. For

2226
02:32:53,639 --> 02:32:58,039
Camelot. I will not support Tokyo because I'm concerned that

2227
02:32:58,039 --> 02:33:01,776
we don't. Know enough about Ministry of Transportation. And I

2228
02:33:01,776 --> 02:33:06,756
will vote in favor of Arundel only. With because. It's

2229
02:33:06,756 --> 02:33:09,356
got a rezoning that we will limit the number of

2230
02:33:09,356 --> 02:33:12,796
housing units on. That property. And Fanshaw we voted for

2231
02:33:12,796 --> 02:33:16,841
already. Thank you. Thank you. We have to do the

2232
02:33:16,841 --> 02:33:20,270
07:00 resolution, please. So just committee just at the hour

2233
02:33:20,270 --> 02:33:22,110
being 07:00 p.m. at the standard. Committee continue with the

2234
02:33:22,110 --> 02:33:24,350
business. At this hour? We'd have mover in a seconder.

2235
02:33:24,350 --> 02:33:27,510
Your worship, the calcier Trini. All those in favor? Both

2236
02:33:27,510 --> 02:33:30,550
defending that's carried your. Worship. The third and final round.

2237
02:33:31,785 --> 02:33:35,785
Chair through you. I would ask manager Ward to just

2238
02:33:35,785 --> 02:33:38,625
clarify or amplify the comments he made on the flyover

2239
02:33:38,625 --> 02:33:41,825
for highway 1117 because I believe it is germane to

2240
02:33:41,825 --> 02:33:45,425
the discussion. Manager Ward. Thank you. And through the chair.

2241
02:33:45,425 --> 02:33:49,185
So the Ministry of Transportation has completed their preliminary designs

2242
02:33:49,185 --> 02:33:54,557
for the various. Intersections in the city and at the

2243
02:33:54,557 --> 02:33:57,637
John intersection, they have also identified what lands they need

2244
02:33:57,637 --> 02:34:00,437
for their future flyover, and that's been taken into account

2245
02:34:00,437 --> 02:34:05,864
for these parcels as well, so. Does these lands that

2246
02:34:05,864 --> 02:34:09,450
picked in Tokyo. Are not significantly impacted by the future

2247
02:34:09,450 --> 02:34:12,290
land needs. Notwithstanding the traffic impacts the lands have been

2248
02:34:12,290 --> 02:34:15,530
taken into account already. Okay. Thank you for that clarification,

2249
02:34:15,530 --> 02:34:21,412
your worship. Third found around. Yes. We'll be voting in

2250
02:34:21,412 --> 02:34:25,776
support of all of these to get. Them moving. So

2251
02:34:25,776 --> 02:34:30,362
that we can keep up with the pace. With the

2252
02:34:30,362 --> 02:34:34,642
further understanding that we are under competition for these tens

2253
02:34:34,642 --> 02:34:39,758
of millions of dollars. And that I have absolute faith

2254
02:34:39,758 --> 02:34:42,918
in the planning department. They have heard the concerns of

2255
02:34:42,918 --> 02:34:47,091
those who. Have objections or are worried about certain things.

2256
02:34:48,653 --> 02:34:53,026
That they will be addressed. And I will certainly be

2257
02:34:53,026 --> 02:34:55,906
available to make sure they're followed up on. So I

2258
02:34:55,906 --> 02:35:02,566
would offer that. As we come to a decision. Thank

2259
02:35:02,566 --> 02:35:09,731
you, chair. Thank you, worship. Pasquino council Pascalino. Thank you

2260
02:35:09,731 --> 02:35:12,611
very much. And through the chair, I am going to

2261
02:35:12,611 --> 02:35:16,131
be voting in favor on all of these sites for

2262
02:35:16,131 --> 02:35:19,931
much the same reason as marriage has stated, but I

2263
02:35:19,931 --> 02:35:24,309
want to make it clear. There are a lot of

2264
02:35:24,309 --> 02:35:27,309
things that can prevent these things from going forward, whether.

2265
02:35:28,973 --> 02:35:31,733
It's not worth it to upgrade the sewers. But even

2266
02:35:31,733 --> 02:35:35,475
like I had an email. Today. There was an owl

2267
02:35:35,475 --> 02:35:38,035
in a tree. They're going to do wildlife studies. These

2268
02:35:38,035 --> 02:35:40,235
things are going to happen. They have to do the

2269
02:35:40,235 --> 02:35:44,182
wild. Wildlife studies. They have to make sure that. There

2270
02:35:44,182 --> 02:35:48,722
aren't certain trees that are growing on these properties. So

2271
02:35:48,722 --> 02:35:51,162
I'm just here to make this thing go to the

2272
02:35:51,162 --> 02:35:55,837
next step. Where it goes from there. It really depends

2273
02:35:55,837 --> 02:35:59,579
on. The civil engineers and all the agencies doing their

2274
02:35:59,579 --> 02:36:03,479
work, and I'm trusting them to do their work. And

2275
02:36:03,479 --> 02:36:07,359
I'm counting on everybody to question the work that they're

2276
02:36:07,359 --> 02:36:09,879
doing. If there are any doubts. But this is just

2277
02:36:09,879 --> 02:36:12,359
one step in a long journey, and it is a

2278
02:36:12,359 --> 02:36:17,479
step. To work. At trying to get more housing and

2279
02:36:17,479 --> 02:36:20,199
more buildings in the city and more growth in the

2280
02:36:20,199 --> 02:36:24,319
city. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Clerk, please. All right,

2281
02:36:24,319 --> 02:36:27,679
we'll resume the voting a little unorthodox. Here. We'll continue

2282
02:36:27,679 --> 02:36:29,919
on. The next property is municipally known as 300. Tokyo

2283
02:36:29,919 --> 02:36:32,319
street be declared surplus to the seed requirements and be

2284
02:36:32,319 --> 02:36:34,679
designated as an area of site fund. Control all those.

2285
02:36:35,267 --> 02:36:40,237
In favor, please. Defend. That's carried. Next property, please. Next

2286
02:36:40,237 --> 02:36:43,037
property is municipally known as 211 to 223. Tupper street

2287
02:36:43,037 --> 02:36:46,157
and 224 Tamil street once again to be declared surplus

2288
02:36:46,157 --> 02:36:48,917
and designated as an area of Saipon control. All those

2289
02:36:48,917 --> 02:36:52,941
in favor? Opposed to any that's carried. Next property, please.

2290
02:36:54,596 --> 02:36:57,476
And the last property is municipally known as 791 Arundel

2291
02:36:57,476 --> 02:36:59,876
street. Be declared surplus to the Caesar requirements and be

2292
02:36:59,876 --> 02:37:02,916
designated as an area of site plan control. All those

2293
02:37:02,916 --> 02:37:08,716
in favor? Opposed? If any, that's carried. Next item, please.

2294
02:37:08,716 --> 02:37:12,476
Seeing no further items, a motion to adjourn. Councilor Pascalino.

2295
02:37:14,955 --> 02:37:17,835
Councilor aguilar. All those in favor? Opposed? Venny, just to

2296
02:37:17,835 --> 02:37:20,537
let everyone know, These will be coming to council in

2297
02:37:20,537 --> 02:37:23,657
January again, so it's another opportunity to speak to all.

2298
02:37:23,657 --> 02:37:27,463
I'm not speak but to contact all counselors. If you

2299
02:37:27,463 --> 02:37:29,703
wish so. Thank you. Thank you very much for coming

2300
02:37:29,703 --> 02:37:30,063
forward tonight.