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I want to call this meeting to order, and let me introduce people around the table from the

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county at this particular time. This is Michelle Potteroff, the deputy clerk, legislature clerk,

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Mike Sigler, Peter Stein, Julie Kiefer, a member of the committee, Joe Mariana, the county

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attorney, yeah, county attorney, the county administrator, and also the county attorney.

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And Martha Robertson, a legislator.

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Jim, you want to make it more clear which of us are actually on the committee?

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Martha and Dooley are the members of the committee, and Leslie McBean-Clariborne, and she is

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not here yet.

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There are only four of us.

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One of the people in the room right now used to be the chair of the committee, but he got

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better job.

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Let me say how this is going to go, or I would hope that it would go.

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There's a chair's report on the agenda, and if you look at it, if you don't have a copy

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of the agenda, under committee meetings, we generally don't have people, we don't

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have privilege of the floor for the public.

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But obviously this meeting has been addressed a certain way and advertised a certain way

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and there are members of the public here and you are in.

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And so we're expecting that you're going to speak at the microphone.

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I have asked that people fill out blue cards or blue sheets and it makes it easier for

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us to keep track of people.

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The way I want to put the meeting together.

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We have an agenda item that we need to get through before we actually do the public portion

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of the meeting, and that should be very short in duration, and we need to add it to the

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agenda.

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It is for the members of the committee, it's an authorization to accept Homeland Security

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Grants and its Department of Emergency Response.

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Lee Shirtliffe is here to talk about it, could I get it on the floor please?

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Someone move it, Martha moves, Julie seconds.

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Discussion, where are you Lee?

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Right, okay. You want to talk about this a little bit?

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I'll be brief Jim. As the committee members will know, the county is eligible for funding from the state

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Homeland Security Program and has been for about the last 12 years for projects that

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are proposed by the emergency response community.

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And typically there's an allocation at the county-wide level and we bring to you our

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recommendations and proposals that are approved by the state.

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In the past few years we have secured grants to improve upon the interoperable radio communication

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education system, the computer-aided dispatch system with its enhancements, training and

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education initiatives for the responders, as well as enhancements to the Emergency Operations

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Center.

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What I have here today are four grants or portions of four grants and awards that I'm

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asking for acceptance of, and what they will be used to do is to fund a number

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of ongoing projects that were long identified in the office.

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Among those, one is an enhancement to the computer-aided dispatch system which automates

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our voice-paging process so that when a call is accepted and created for dispatching, it

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will take the text of the call, turn it into a voice message, and transmit it out.

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And the purpose of that is to shorten the dispatching time.

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The second project that's included is a web-based EOC emergency operations center management software system that allows us to document our emergency plans, resource listings, and so on,

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and provide multidisciplinary capability to all of our jurisdictions so that when there's a large-scale disaster, snowstorm, ice storm, whatever the case may be,

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They have that resource database and management tool in the EOC and extended out through the web to their operations.

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The third part of this is to update our ortho imagery, our overhead aerial photography for the computer-aided dispatch system,

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so that when we identify a location, we not only have the tax-based and GIS-based mapping system for the dispatchers

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and responders to work with, but can also bring up the location information.

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A lot of what we have today are 9-1-1 cellular calls where people are unaware of what a specific

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address can be, but through this tool we're able to at least take the visual descriptions

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and locate the general area where they are.

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If they say I'm in front of a yellow barn on Route 222, we can bring that up and identify

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them and that information is there.

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And the fourth piece is a continuation of a project with the Sheriff's Office we initiated

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in 2013 for a training simulator device.

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And at that time by resolution 108 funding was accepted.

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Our office went out and secured the balance of it so that they can continue through with

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that training simulator.

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And those are the projects that would be funded through this resolution.

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looking for your approval to accept and move forward.

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Okay.

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Questions by any of the committee members or legislators around the table?

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Martha.

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Highly, that last one, well, last on the page here.

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Pictometry, refresh for placement of 10-year-old overhead imagery.

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Are they going to redo all the photographs of the county?

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They are, and it's not just the ortho imagery that's the top down or flat,

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flats, but from various directions so that you can actually see the sides and the roads

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and the landmarks and landscape.

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Okay.

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The whole thing.

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I can't believe 10 years have gone by.

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I remember when you came to us the first time about this.

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Okay.

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And there have been thousands of changes to the landscape, as the assessment department

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will tell you.

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They share in this as well.

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It's a tool that the assessment department can use to also verify property information.

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Anyone else?

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Julie.

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What is the WM stand for?

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That's the state contract number.

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And off the top of my head, I can't tell you what the WM is.

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That's just curious.

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That's fine.

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Each agency has a different identifier, and one is where the DCJS Division of Criminal

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justice services, one is with the Office of Homeland Security, one's with the

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State Comptroller, and they all have different numbers that we reference.

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Anyone else? Questions or comments? Martha?

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I have a question. After we finish this, I have a different question for Lee.

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Julie?

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I have a note on the resolution. The final resolve says the county contracts

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administrator. I think it should just be the county administrator.

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Yeah. I see contracts crossed off on mine. So you want County Administrator?

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It wasn't crossed out on mine yet.

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Oh, okay. Well, it is on mine. Anything else? Are you ready to vote on this?

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Move it on. All in favor, signify by saying aye.

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Aye. Post-Fenny. Martha, you had a question.

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Yeah, Lee, later on we'll talk about mutual aid with law enforcement.

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Do we have mutual aid with other counties for emergency response, including Skylar County?

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Yes.

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Have you made any particular requests to Skylar County regarding any emergency plans they have

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of the salt storage, the natural gas storage and methane and liquid propane storage in the

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Crestwood facility in the town of Redding. It would be interesting if I would appreciate

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if you could check with them about their emergency plans regarding that project.

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I will do that. We do periodically meet as regional coordinators and talk about

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major projects and we've got a nine county hazardous materials consortium in

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fact they met at our office last Friday I don't know if that is one of the

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topics they discussed but I'd be glad to look into that. Okay great thanks a lot.

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Thanks very much.

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Any other questions for Lee? All right thank you very much for

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moving us on to the ledge and Lee thank you for you know continuing your

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work in getting this grant for us.

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Thank you.

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All right.

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Let me introduce Leslie B. Clairborn,

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a member of the Public Safety Committee,

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and deputy county attorney, yeah, county administrator

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Paul Younger.

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We just got a new deputy county attorney,

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and he's down here.

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His name is Bill Freud.

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I don't know why that's on my mind.

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Now comes the public portion of the meeting.

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As I said at the beginning, if you wanted to talk, you should fill out a blue form.

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If you did not fill out the blue form, then I will take it in order after these people

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have been called.

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I would appreciate it very much if you try to limit yourself to three minutes.

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And also, even though you may have filled out a blue form, please say your name

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and address, you know, basically so that we can identify where you're from town. It makes

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it a little bit easier during the minute time.

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And for other late arrivers, the way we do

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these things, public portion of the meeting, generally people talk, we listen, we do not

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have a back and forth between the legislators and the public speakers at this time.

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So if we're ready to go, the first person I have is Frederick Dietrich, better known

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as Rick Dietrich, and if you want to, Rick, you want to come to the microphone.

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And I believe it's turned on, if not clicking on there.

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Now there's a there's a switch right on the back side. Mike, would you please show them up on top?

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There are a couple of other seats over here

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You hear me now? I can. All right

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My name is Rick Dietrich. I'm the supervisor for the town of Namby and

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I think everybody's pretty well aware that we had an incident go down in our town on Hornbrook Road

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This is my I've been around this business for a long time and this is

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probably the first time that I've had a community that I think has been so very alarmed at what

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happened. And I humbly come before you and ask that if there is so much supposition,

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there are so many questions, there are so many second guessing that's going on with

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this issue. But at some point I need to bring answers back. And the only way I really

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to know how to do that is to have an after-action report drawn up by law enforcement officials

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so we can get an accurate assessment of exactly what went down and where.

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And then I would also humbly ask if we could have a group do an independent overview of

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that to try to glean out what best practices we can learn from this or what kinds of communication

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efforts that we might have done a better job with.

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I did have to operate my town for a number of days without a highway department, without

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a financial officer.

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I was not able to get my end of the year reports out.

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I was not able to be in compliance with the state.

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And I do feel in a lot of ways my residents were put at risk because I was not able

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to get at my highway equipment.

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I'm a representative from the Council of Governments, the County Emergency Management,

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and I think I'm well aware of policies and procedures.

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And one of them that comes to the top of the list for me almost all the time is communication,

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communication, communication.

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And in this particular instance, that was lacking, not only from the law enforcement,

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but from any other authority that I tried to get in contact with.

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So again, humbly I would appreciate if the law enforcement does an after-action report

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and that that be independently reviewed.

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Thank you very much.

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Thank you, Rick.

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I was – I neglected to mention at the beginning of the meeting before the first person spoke

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that the way I feel about this and the way I hope that we can move forward as we make

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comments and discuss this further, that there are many – there have been in this

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County over 25 years, a few incidents like this, they've ended up in different ways with

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different kinds of situations.

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And my hope is that each one of these things, we've learned something and we've moved forward

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from that.

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And I'm hoping that at the end of this discussion, maybe not today, but as this incident is talked

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talked about in the community and dealt with, that we will end up with a better result and

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we will have learned something from it today and in the future that when it comes up again,

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if something like this comes up again, we have a way to deal with it.

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That's clearly what my goal is, and I think that's the goal. I can speak to the county legislature

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and say that's what we're looking to do. So next person I have is Tom Beeshani. All right.

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Seanie. Sorry.

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So I'm Tom Seanie from Marsh Road in Dambi. I still hear almost a week ago

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go and address the legislature about my concerns about the unanswered questions revolving around

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this incident. And they're still unanswered. My call to the sheriff has gone, unreturned.

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And in fact, there's even more questions that have come to light since then that just

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don't make sense in the context of what we were told, what the newspaper told us

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and the general, you know, official story.

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So I'm not saying that this may be a huge cover-up going on and like that,

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but it just lends to that kind of an attitude when things just don't sound right,

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when people don't get you answers right away.

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So my own interest would be a public forum of some sort,

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Maybe, you know, an official statement from the Sheriff's Department, we could ask questions.

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Your idea of having, you know, a more official sounding report sounds good, too, but it doesn't still give public input.

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And that seems like judging by the number of people who have been upset by this, I think there's got to be some way of doing it, some kind of public input aspect to it.

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I think the stakes here are kind of higher than usual.

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You know, a man who's lost his life, a family has been completely torn apart.

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And it's, you know, the sooner this gets resolved, the better.

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There's a lot of bad feeling going around now.

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And I just don't want Danby to be on the newspapers around the country

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if you want to understand for this kind of thing.

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It's getting a lot of press because of what went on,

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and it's not necessarily good press.

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Thank you.

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Okay, thank you.

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David Nazar, Newfield.

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Jim?

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Do I understand correctly this meeting

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is being livestreamed right now?

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It is, it's being videoed also.

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Okay, but sent out right now, but also videos.

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Okay, thank you.

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Hi, my name is Dave Naser, and I'm a resident in the town, or, you know, the town of Newfield.

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And I just wanted to take this opportunity.

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I mean, it was a very, very unfortunate situation that occurred with the death of a person

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and like the other gentlemen said, family torn apart.

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But I want to thank the law enforcement people who were involved in this.

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I'm sure the decisions they made and the things that they took into account were not taken lightly.

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I was previously law enforcement myself.

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So, I understand the thought process and all of what's involved, and I just wanted to publicly

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thank them all for the work they did, whether you agree with all the situations or not,

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but I think they did a good job as they put under the situation.

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Thank you.

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Thank you.

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I have Kelly, SKE, is it, SKEVAL,

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okay, you may come here or there?

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Yeah, I'm Kelly. I am also a

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Skevel. My name's Kelly Skevel. I am a resident in the town of Danby

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also, and I am also a police wife.

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I just wanted to take a moment, you know,

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to address everybody and say that this is an unfortunate

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incident. It's very sad, you know, for everybody

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involved. There, having said that, there seems to be

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a personal attack, at least from my point of view, on the law enforcement that were involved in this.

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And it was very difficult for them, difficult for their families, difficult to watch the media's reporting on it.

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And, you know, the dehumanization of the police, you know, is very hard to take as the family members too.

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I mean, this is difficult on them.

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You know, so we're just, as the family members of the police who are getting negative publicity

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all around the country right now, we're asking, you know, that you remember that these are

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men and women, mothers, fathers, children, family members, you know, that are out there

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in a difficult position themselves, just trying to do what's right, trying to keep

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everybody safe, you know, and their families are being affected too.

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So just asking that, you know, we remember that these are human beings, too, and everybody's affected.

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Thank you.

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Thank you, Kelly.

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Camille Doucette? Is that right?

251
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You said it right. Camille Doucette, then be New York.

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Also coming to talk about what happened in Hornbrook, on Hornbrook Road.

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My worry is accountability and escalation. I feel there's an imbalance and that's what we are reacting to.

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So my one question is, if the event started at 7 and as we know of Mr. Katie, the events that we know from him

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ended at four o'clock in the morning on Wednesday morning and then there was no

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response from him. So what in no response justified escalation?

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Thank you.

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Vani Dawson Roberts.

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Hi, my name is Vani Dawson Roberts. I was married to Dewey Dawson who

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was a Sheriff Sergeant at the Sheriff's Department when I married him. He retired

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from there and know he's a judge. He's a judge because his deputies one day went up to a gravel

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pit where he had a suicide attempt himself and they rescued him and brought him back in

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without the help of a SWAT team or many, many, many agencies like you guys called in at this time

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for this man who needed some help. And his family today is suffering because I believe

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If somebody made some bad calls, and there's a wife of an officer, I worried about my husband

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every time he walked out that door to go to work, but today I wouldn't want to be married

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to an officer because the way the police are today, they're out to earn their own salaries.

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They're out writing tickets.

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They're out harassing the public.

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They're not out protecting the public.

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I believe they're out harassing the public, and it's really sad.

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People back in Bob Howard's day had a totally different job than the police today, and I believe they don't get the public support because of the way they act and the jobs they do.

273
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If it went back to the way it was before, it would be much, much better.

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And I believe Mr. Katie lost his life because of nonsense, total nonsense.

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I'm here today with a box for the Katie family.

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I've already donated and go fund me and I'll continue to donate because I blame my husband

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too, the husband I have now because he fixes the 911 radials which allows you to keep calling

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in more and more and more people when you're at an incident where you need somebody with

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mental health to come in and help you out instead of more and more armored vehicles.

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Donating another $100 today into this box, I wish that all of you would reach into

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your pockets and donate some money, especially the people that were involved in this incident,

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the people that are making the overtime, the people that are sitting back thinking they're

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doing a great job at what they're doing when they're tearing families apart.

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Tompkins County seems to be really good at tearing families apart.

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They've torn my family apart, they've torn the Katie family apart, and somebody needs

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to start taking responsibility in all of this.

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Because people need to think about what they're doing, and they need to do more than think

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about the next paycheck, because it seems the people are not thinking about anything,

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but they're paychecks.

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Back when my husband, my ex-husband, Dewey Dawson, was a cop, he thought about what

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he was doing when he'd come home from work.

292
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There were many nights he didn't sleep, because what happened at work that day?

293
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And I believe he still thinks about what he does as a judge.

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And many people today, I don't think, think, or take responsibility for what they do in

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their jobs.

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And I'd like to pass this box around to everybody.

297
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And somehow we will get this to the Katie family, the sons.

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Here's a little boy who dressed up on October 31st of 2012 for Halloween, I bet, his name

299
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is Matthew.

300
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I bet many of your sons have never dressed up like you for Halloween.

301
00:25:05,000 --> 00:25:09,940
This little boy dressed up as his dad for Halloween, and there's a picture of him on

302
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the spot.

303
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This is all, all too sad, and it makes me cry.

304
00:25:22,530 --> 00:25:23,410
Thank you very much.

305
00:25:23,690 --> 00:25:24,830
Joannes Pollard, Dennis.

306
00:25:47,780 --> 00:25:49,460
Thank you for hearing me today.

307
00:25:50,400 --> 00:25:52,560
I'm a former corrections officer.

308
00:25:52,920 --> 00:25:54,800
I reside now in the town of Dryden.

309
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The first thing I'd like to do is extend my deepest condolences to the Katie family and

310
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to their neighbors and to this entire community for what we've been put through by witnessing

311
00:26:11,950 --> 00:26:14,210
yet another breach

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of peace by the people who we pay to protect and serve us.

313
00:26:31,570 --> 00:26:36,290
This takes place during work hours and it really should take place at a time when

314
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people do not have to take off work. My wife would like to be here. She has to work until

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five o'clock. I would like a bigger venue on a Saturday or an evening after 5 p.m. where

316
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people can come and voice their concerns about public safety and about what we have

317
00:26:54,110 --> 00:26:57,330
been going through for a very long time in Tompkins County.

318
00:27:00,960 --> 00:27:05,740
A lot of residents that I know do not support the purses of the tactical armored

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military-style vehicles used in this instance because people like Sheriff Lansing who also

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sell guns and military weaponry have the intention to use them against a civilian population in

321
00:27:21,160 --> 00:27:26,940
Topkins County as if we were some kind of terrorist or enemy combatants.

322
00:27:27,780 --> 00:27:33,800
To hear now that the widow Mrs. Katie recalls for the first encounter with police who

323
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came to her home was foul mouth and abusive, and threatened to take our children away.

324
00:27:41,080 --> 00:27:44,840
Perhaps that's why he didn't trust Mr. Lansing.

325
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It's outrageous form of threatening and intimidation that I will not expect being used at any

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time by police in this community from now on.

327
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I do not want to pay to be exposed to that kind of police officer.

328
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As you know, a year ago I came to this public safety meeting and addressed Mr. Lansing about

329
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his abusive police officers who have more than one complaint of written complaints

330
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of police brutality and using excessive force.

331
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We have already been sued last year, as it came out on the 25th of December.

332
00:28:33,820 --> 00:28:40,700
For excessive abuse by Mr. Morocco who still serves, he refused to get rid of him, and so did you.

333
00:28:41,940 --> 00:28:46,900
The language used by the sheriff's office is disturbing and has no merit.

334
00:28:47,320 --> 00:28:54,680
There is no evidence of any barricade that Mr. Katie was simply at home behind closed doors like anyone else.

335
00:28:55,460 --> 00:29:02,560
There's no evidence that I'm aware of that David Cady had an arsenal of weaponry, readying

336
00:29:02,560 --> 00:29:07,020
himself for a standoff with police, as Mr. Lansing described.

337
00:29:08,060 --> 00:29:12,800
There is no evidence that Mr. Cady shot at police, as he described.

338
00:29:13,500 --> 00:29:19,220
There's no evidence that Mr. Cady at any time had any intention of harming anyone,

339
00:29:19,700 --> 00:29:21,620
including his wife.

340
00:29:23,180 --> 00:29:29,600
There's no evidence that he allegedly fired at police in trending to harm them.

341
00:29:30,940 --> 00:29:35,560
Mr. Katie's long guns are not unusual in homes across the nation.

342
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He sells them.

343
00:29:38,720 --> 00:29:45,500
But now he's categorized as some loon having an arsenal of weaponry that needed to be

344
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taken out by a military-style force to destroy his life.

345
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How long did that man wait inside that house?

346
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Maybe he had a reaction.

347
00:29:54,500 --> 00:29:55,360
Karen, please wrap up.

348
00:29:55,680 --> 00:29:56,520
Maybe he...

349
00:30:00,000 --> 00:30:07,080
We had a reaction to the smoke bombs that were deployed, and he needed help. And you waited

350
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a day and a half to go in that house and destroy it. In the meantime, by tactical weaponry, I

351
00:30:13,040 --> 00:30:18,920
oppose as an officer. There are reasons why police officers are now being sought by people

352
00:30:18,920 --> 00:30:24,920
who are unstable and shooting honorable police officers and putting them at risk because

353
00:30:24,920 --> 00:30:30,280
of behavior like that. I want a full investigation by the Attorney General's

354
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Office into this matter and I have a letter that people can sign in support

355
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of that. Thank you.

356
00:30:44,450 --> 00:30:51,030
And last person I have on the blue paper is Melissa

357
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Cady.

358
00:30:56,220 --> 00:31:03,720
Hi. I'm Melissa Cady. I used to live at 127 Hornbrook Road to clarify.

359
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I didn't own it. There are more than just my family suffering right now for the loss of my home,

360
00:31:12,340 --> 00:31:16,540
let alone the loss of my husband. I just needed to say that.

361
00:31:19,700 --> 00:31:23,500
Hello, I'm Melissa Cady. I'm the wife of the deceased David Cady.

362
00:31:24,420 --> 00:31:30,320
Like I just said, I lived at 127 Hornbrook Road. I've lived there since March of 1999.

363
00:31:31,240 --> 00:31:34,720
I was 19 years old when I moved into that home.

364
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The only home my children have ever known.

365
00:31:40,580 --> 00:31:42,660
I don't hate the police at all.

366
00:31:42,900 --> 00:31:43,340
I don't.

367
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I question the leadership of the police during this operation.

368
00:31:49,080 --> 00:31:53,720
I don't know how or why or when it went as far as it went.

369
00:31:53,960 --> 00:31:54,920
I don't get it.

370
00:31:55,780 --> 00:32:01,780
I was supposed to read what I wrote here, but long story short, all the rumors

371
00:32:01,780 --> 00:32:05,660
of my husband and supposedly having an arsenal is crazy.

372
00:32:06,080 --> 00:32:09,000
Us driving to Pennsylvania for bullets is nuts.

373
00:32:09,500 --> 00:32:11,060
Okay, we're from PA.

374
00:32:11,420 --> 00:32:13,440
We moved here when we were kids

375
00:32:13,440 --> 00:32:16,300
because we thought it was a wonderful place to be.

376
00:32:17,380 --> 00:32:21,540
Bottom line, we drove to Pennsylvania to see family.

377
00:32:22,100 --> 00:32:23,320
We didn't go to buy bullets.

378
00:32:23,500 --> 00:32:25,920
They're cheaper at Walmart in Ithaca, okay?

379
00:32:26,760 --> 00:32:28,540
I mean, bottom line,

380
00:32:28,540 --> 00:32:37,020
my husband needed help. I told the police from the beginning that he was

381
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suicidal. He needed someone to help him. And all they did is bring in more and

382
00:32:45,300 --> 00:32:52,920
more and more police. I begged them, begged them to let me go in there. His

383
00:32:52,920 --> 00:32:59,500
His parents came from Pennsylvania, his sisters, everyone, and begged, stood there and begged

384
00:32:59,500 --> 00:33:03,560
them, and no one would let us anywhere near there.

385
00:33:04,440 --> 00:33:11,000
Bottom line, the last conversation and the police know it, 4.16 a.m. on Wednesday.

386
00:33:12,460 --> 00:33:17,740
By the time my house was completely destroyed, it was Friday.

387
00:33:18,740 --> 00:33:20,620
I've spoke with the coroner.

388
00:33:20,620 --> 00:33:28,900
My husband's body was frozen solid when it was received in Binghamton.

389
00:33:30,510 --> 00:33:37,720
Therefore, what you're saying about him walking around my house with a long gun strapped to

390
00:33:37,720 --> 00:33:44,740
his back on Thursday night is crap, period, because it is totally impossible.

391
00:33:44,740 --> 00:33:54,040
possible. They found his body at 8am on Friday. Do the math. Exactly how could he be anywhere

392
00:33:54,040 --> 00:34:01,760
Thursday evening. It's not possible. Somebody somewhere is covering up one heck of a mess.

393
00:34:02,840 --> 00:34:09,760
And all I ask of anyone in this community in America is to figure it out. Figure it

394
00:34:09,760 --> 00:34:18,940
out. I'm 34, okay? I am a widow. I have an 11-year-old and a 13-year-old son who loved

395
00:34:18,940 --> 00:34:24,180
their father to death. I would never stand here until any of you. He's perfect because

396
00:34:24,180 --> 00:34:31,180
he's not. My husband is nothing to perfect. Nowhere. Bottom line, he was an alcoholic

397
00:34:31,840 --> 00:34:39,420
with a problem. Period. It got out of control most definitely. Things were said in the

398
00:34:39,420 --> 00:34:46,160
beginning by the police that should not have been said. Bottom line, I don't hate any of

399
00:34:46,160 --> 00:34:53,520
you, none of you, including you. I don't hate you. I just don't understand. I need answers.

400
00:34:54,240 --> 00:34:59,580
And I'm not the only one in this community that needs answers. I mean, like I said,

401
00:34:59,900 --> 00:35:04,600
I have no husband. The people who own my house, you think there's an insurance company

402
00:35:04,600 --> 00:35:07,800
out there anywhere that covers something like this?

403
00:35:10,660 --> 00:35:14,120
Sure. Thank you for your time, and I'll

404
00:35:14,120 --> 00:35:14,880
see you at the next meeting.

405
00:35:24,840 --> 00:35:31,040
Hi, everyone. My name is Bill Coons. I live in Dambi, 1753 Dambi Road. As, like my opinion

406
00:35:31,040 --> 00:35:34,860
of the whole situation, it's a successful amount of force. They had to stand off a

407
00:35:34,860 --> 00:35:40,380
Wednesday or 10 days prior. They went in there through a flash bang and beanbagged

408
00:35:40,380 --> 00:35:44,860
them. They didn't throw 70 cans of tear gas and just struck the person's house.

409
00:35:45,280 --> 00:35:49,320
I was a prior military Osama Bin Laden the world's biggest terrorist in the world

410
00:35:49,320 --> 00:35:51,000
They did not get any balls down to go get them

411
00:35:51,000 --> 00:35:53,000
They didn't know what they were getting to when they busted through the house

412
00:35:53,700 --> 00:35:56,400
But for one guy is a failure to appear warrant

413
00:35:57,460 --> 00:35:59,900
some pity like bull shit and

414
00:36:01,140 --> 00:36:06,240
They had a call and everybody was at 16 agencies or I don't know what it was 150 cops

415
00:36:07,560 --> 00:36:12,980
Little overkill for the situation because it was waited and may try to make they wouldn't live as his lawyer

416
00:36:12,980 --> 00:36:18,340
up there and talk to them just like questions why you know and like the

417
00:36:18,340 --> 00:36:23,860
statements in the paper you can watch you look at officer chief Lansing's

418
00:36:23,860 --> 00:36:28,420
statements they counter-addict themselves numerous times and I'm not the

419
00:36:28,420 --> 00:36:35,200
only one who's picked up picked that up so thank you very much thank you

420
00:36:35,200 --> 00:36:39,300
anyone else you know in the audience who would like to come tell the

421
00:36:52,740 --> 00:37:01,840
I'm so sorry. I want to say that I don't understand why our Sheriff's Department can't serve a

422
00:37:01,840 --> 00:37:09,480
bench work in three months. David Cady was around. He was at the Dambi Town Ward meetings.

423
00:37:09,940 --> 00:37:15,420
He was trying to start a business on Dambi Road to repair cars. Is that right?

424
00:37:19,360 --> 00:37:20,220
Is that

425
00:37:20,220 --> 00:37:22,480
like treated like worse than Osama bin Laden.

426
00:37:22,680 --> 00:37:23,900
I understand it at all.

427
00:37:23,980 --> 00:37:27,640
Why all of a sudden does he have to be apprehended

428
00:37:27,640 --> 00:37:28,600
by the end of the year?

429
00:37:28,740 --> 00:37:30,320
Why couldn't they have just left

430
00:37:30,320 --> 00:37:33,260
or just had one or two cop cars there waiting

431
00:37:33,260 --> 00:37:36,440
until the situation was diffused?

432
00:37:37,060 --> 00:37:39,940
It is such overkill and we desperately need

433
00:37:39,940 --> 00:37:40,680
an investigation.

434
00:37:41,380 --> 00:37:42,480
We need public meetings.

435
00:37:42,940 --> 00:37:44,960
We need to find out exactly what happened.

436
00:37:45,300 --> 00:37:47,820
And I also would really, really want to know

437
00:37:47,820 --> 00:37:48,460
the time of death.

438
00:37:48,460 --> 00:37:52,180
I don't know why that wasn't disclosed, why that's a big secret.

439
00:37:52,500 --> 00:37:53,580
What is the time of death, Melissa?

440
00:37:54,820 --> 00:38:02,180
According to the death certificate, the time of death is Friday at 11 a.m.

441
00:38:02,920 --> 00:38:06,620
Does that even make sense to you, seeing how this standoff was over at night?

442
00:38:07,720 --> 00:38:09,050
And he was found unfrozen.

443
00:38:10,620 --> 00:38:13,840
Excuse me, could you continue on with your statement?

444
00:38:14,300 --> 00:38:15,260
As I've said at the beginning...

445
00:38:15,260 --> 00:38:15,380
I'm done.

446
00:38:15,640 --> 00:38:16,260
I want an investigation.

447
00:38:16,980 --> 00:38:18,440
We are not...

448
00:38:18,440 --> 00:38:23,900
room. Pardon? We are? We are not going to have a back and forth between members of the

449
00:38:23,900 --> 00:38:26,900
audience. Please make your choice. Okay, I understand. But are we going to have an investigation?

450
00:38:28,520 --> 00:38:34,040
What do we have to do to get an investigation? Well, I believe that's a discussion that

451
00:38:34,040 --> 00:38:36,720
we will have to have here. I hope you have it. Thank you.

452
00:38:36,880 --> 00:38:37,180
Thank you.

453
00:38:44,800 --> 00:38:49,980
Hello, my name is Dodd-Nate by Liv and Lansing. Included in this investigation,

454
00:38:50,420 --> 00:38:52,940
and I'm just going to go ahead and assume that we're going to have an investigation

455
00:38:52,940 --> 00:38:56,660
because the public is pretty much demanding an investigation or a review or something.

456
00:38:57,320 --> 00:39:00,880
I would like to see the financial costs.

457
00:39:01,820 --> 00:39:06,080
You know, when I think of that there was, I read that the, on average,

458
00:39:06,200 --> 00:39:10,820
there was 40 policemen there all the time and this lasted a couple of days

459
00:39:10,820 --> 00:39:12,240
and there was all this military equipment.

460
00:39:12,780 --> 00:39:17,260
I'd like to know what the dollar figure was attached to all this

461
00:39:17,260 --> 00:39:18,280
and who pays for that.

462
00:39:18,280 --> 00:39:24,660
And obviously, it's secondary to the fact that there was loss of life and family destroyed.

463
00:39:25,380 --> 00:39:31,940
But in this, you know, world that we live in, of very diminishing budgets for mental health,

464
00:39:32,180 --> 00:39:39,940
for social, I hope that in this investigation a breakdown in the dollars and how it was

465
00:39:39,940 --> 00:39:43,340
proportioned to the different, you know, for example, when the police come up from

466
00:39:43,340 --> 00:39:45,960
Pennsylvania, does Pennsylvania pay for that?

467
00:39:45,960 --> 00:39:47,960
Does the local sheriffs, you know,

468
00:39:48,000 --> 00:39:50,180
do they have to reimburse the police

469
00:39:50,180 --> 00:39:51,200
to come from other areas?

470
00:39:52,060 --> 00:39:55,820
If you do the math and you look at an average of 40 at a time

471
00:39:55,820 --> 00:39:57,540
over the course of days and heavy equipment,

472
00:39:57,740 --> 00:40:00,320
it gets up in the hundreds of thousands of dollars.

473
00:40:00,700 --> 00:40:03,720
So it has that financial information

474
00:40:03,720 --> 00:40:05,960
being included in the overall review,

475
00:40:06,760 --> 00:40:07,900
including all the procedural.

476
00:40:08,360 --> 00:40:09,700
And in chain of command, you know,

477
00:40:09,780 --> 00:40:11,580
who was the sheriff still?

478
00:40:12,260 --> 00:40:14,360
I mean, when state police come into the equation,

479
00:40:14,360 --> 00:40:16,640
Does the local sheriff still have jurisdiction?

480
00:40:16,860 --> 00:40:18,060
Does he still giving the orders?

481
00:40:18,460 --> 00:40:23,680
Who, where does the chain of command start once state police,

482
00:40:23,820 --> 00:40:25,360
and especially state police from different states,

483
00:40:25,680 --> 00:40:28,260
where does that chain of command, what happens to that?

484
00:40:28,700 --> 00:40:31,120
That's something I'd like to see included, thank you.

485
00:40:32,900 --> 00:40:33,520
Anyone else?

486
00:40:37,640 --> 00:40:38,980
My name is Catherine Hunter.

487
00:40:39,360 --> 00:40:43,600
I moved to Danby from Virginia in August of 2013.

488
00:40:44,380 --> 00:40:46,620
And I don't have a prepared statement,

489
00:40:46,620 --> 00:40:51,340
but I fully support the people here who are asking for a full investigation, both for the

490
00:40:51,340 --> 00:40:58,600
loss of this life and the wreckage of the family. And the cost is another issue, and

491
00:40:58,600 --> 00:41:04,160
it was done over a holiday weekend, a holiday time. There's a lot of questions that a lot

492
00:41:04,160 --> 00:41:09,300
of people are not prepared even to ask at this time, so we need more than just this

493
00:41:09,300 --> 00:41:10,180
one forum.

494
00:41:15,230 --> 00:41:20,890
Is there anyone else in the room who would want to speak?

495
00:41:23,110 --> 00:41:32,210
Okay, thank you very much for your comments and we will move on to the next portion of the meeting.

496
00:41:32,370 --> 00:41:40,270
I would invite the sheriff and the under sheriff to the desk and anyone they would like to bring with them.

497
00:41:40,270 --> 00:41:48,950
And I think you have a report and probably included in that report will be some of the

498
00:41:48,950 --> 00:41:54,870
things, some of the answers to some of the questions that you may have heard here this

499
00:41:54,870 --> 00:41:55,290
afternoon.

500
00:41:55,870 --> 00:42:03,040
So, wherever you want to go and have at it.

501
00:42:04,500 --> 00:42:05,380
Here's everything.

502
00:42:07,340 --> 00:42:09,000
What I'll do is ...

503
00:42:14,270 --> 00:42:18,290
One, two, three, four, five chairs.

504
00:42:37,050 --> 00:42:39,570
Two over there, one there.

505
00:43:07,190 --> 00:43:16,010
First of all, I would like to thank everybody that came here today to speak their mind and ask the questions that we knew that would probably be asked.

506
00:43:16,770 --> 00:43:23,890
What we're able to do today in this forum is give you the information that we have at this time.

507
00:43:23,890 --> 00:43:29,110
I'm not sure where some of the information came that some people were testifying to or

508
00:43:29,110 --> 00:43:33,470
not testifying to them, but stating that some of that information we have not received to

509
00:43:33,470 --> 00:43:35,250
the best of my knowledge as of today.

510
00:43:35,930 --> 00:43:41,750
But with that being said, this is not going to be a back and forth conversation as Mr.

511
00:43:41,850 --> 00:43:48,410
Dennis said, so we're going to give you an overlay of what happened during those

512
00:43:48,410 --> 00:43:48,970
three days.

513
00:43:48,970 --> 00:43:58,750
One of the things that I can say is that the whole operation was done by a bunch of people

514
00:43:58,750 --> 00:44:02,530
that have done these types of incidents before.

515
00:44:03,090 --> 00:44:08,930
Professionals that came, yes, from the state of New York and several other cities and

516
00:44:08,930 --> 00:44:11,910
villages within the confines of the state of New York.

517
00:44:12,550 --> 00:44:17,390
And also one agency that came from Pennsylvania, which was the Pennsylvania State Police.

518
00:44:17,390 --> 00:44:25,030
Well, that being said, when this incident went down, I was not on the scene at the time,

519
00:44:25,590 --> 00:44:32,690
so what I'm going to do is allow the incident commander, Sergeant Jake Young from the Ithaca

520
00:44:32,690 --> 00:44:37,790
Police Department, who was in charge of our SWAT team here in Tompkins County, go over

521
00:44:37,790 --> 00:44:43,630
his paperwork that he has from the days that he was in charge during the night shift.

522
00:44:44,530 --> 00:44:48,170
So at this time, I'd like to ask Sergeant Jake Young to proceed.

523
00:44:49,470 --> 00:44:50,150
Thank you, sir.

524
00:44:50,750 --> 00:44:51,990
Like you said, I'm Jake Young.

525
00:44:52,630 --> 00:44:57,650
We have a joint jurisdictional tactical services or SWAT team for the county.

526
00:44:57,650 --> 00:44:59,110
time encompasses.

527
00:45:00,000 --> 00:45:05,420
As well as topics kind of sheriff's deputies. We also have in conjunction with that, if you're

528
00:45:05,420 --> 00:45:11,740
not familiar, we have a SINT team, which is a negotiator team, which is a also a collaboration

529
00:45:11,740 --> 00:45:17,080
of different agencies throughout the county. And Mike Gray was the investigator Gray who

530
00:45:17,080 --> 00:45:22,600
sent over here was the incident commander for the negotiators on that night. And he may

531
00:45:22,600 --> 00:45:27,460
speak to him more, but the negotiations team also includes members from all over

532
00:45:27,460 --> 00:45:33,020
the county including mental health, our department and several other agencies within the county.

533
00:45:35,140 --> 00:45:38,620
I'll give a, I guess I'll give kind of a rundown.

534
00:45:39,180 --> 00:45:41,940
I've listened to the 911 tapes, the original call.

535
00:45:42,160 --> 00:45:46,000
I was not on the original call or the original attempt to serve the warrant.

536
00:45:46,140 --> 00:45:52,060
However, I have listened to all the 911 tapes, live time and real time, three separate

537
00:45:52,060 --> 00:45:56,920
times since I went to do my after action report on this incident.

538
00:45:56,920 --> 00:46:03,620
So I'll just give you the rundown and the initial information is right off the 9-1-1

539
00:46:03,620 --> 00:46:05,780
tapes until I got there.

540
00:46:06,140 --> 00:46:11,960
It's about 1946 on the 30th, two sheriff's deputies attempted to serve a felony county

541
00:46:11,960 --> 00:46:15,560
court warrant at the 127 Hornbrook Road in Dambi.

542
00:46:16,300 --> 00:46:18,580
They were attempting to serve David Cady.

543
00:46:20,640 --> 00:46:24,280
Short time later, deputies were able to hear Mr. Cady inside the residence.

544
00:46:24,280 --> 00:46:25,160
They heard his voice.

545
00:46:27,040 --> 00:46:30,360
Short time later, they were able to see him inside the residence.

546
00:46:31,480 --> 00:46:39,740
They made contact at the residence, I believe, at the rear door and ended up speaking with

547
00:46:39,740 --> 00:46:40,180
a female.

548
00:46:41,020 --> 00:46:45,200
I'm not going to use names, I'm just going to be generic on the timeline here.

549
00:46:45,960 --> 00:46:49,560
Deputies advised that, or the female stated that he wasn't there.

550
00:46:49,920 --> 00:46:53,160
The deputies advised the female that they heard him talking and he needs to come

551
00:46:53,160 --> 00:47:01,040
out, so they can serve the warrant. The female went back inside. At 20-04, which would be

552
00:47:01,040 --> 00:47:06,600
804, a deputy confirms that there's also two teenage males inside.

553
00:47:08,740 --> 00:47:09,920
Meanwhile, the other

554
00:47:09,920 --> 00:47:14,620
deputy that's on scene is, again, speaking with the female. The female advised that

555
00:47:14,620 --> 00:47:18,800
deputy that she was going to contact the attorney, an attorney.

556
00:47:23,240 --> 00:47:24,220
A short time later,

557
00:47:24,220 --> 00:47:29,780
Here about 2018, according to the nine-on-one tapes, the female returns from inside the

558
00:47:29,780 --> 00:47:33,720
residence to, again, speak with the deputy who is waiting at the back door.

559
00:47:36,260 --> 00:47:40,140
Female goes back inside the residence while the deputies wait on the outside.

560
00:47:43,850 --> 00:47:48,690
A deputy, the second deputy that's on the front side of the location, states that

561
00:47:48,690 --> 00:47:51,690
he can see people going up and down the stairs in the house.

562
00:47:55,030 --> 00:48:01,110
The separate deputy requests some additional officers respond to the scene to assist.

563
00:48:02,070 --> 00:48:07,670
The 20-24 hours the female came back outside and advised the deputy on the rear of the

564
00:48:07,670 --> 00:48:10,070
house that Katie has a gun and that it's loaded.

565
00:48:12,090 --> 00:48:17,790
That same deputy attempts to talk the female and the teenagers out of the house, however

566
00:48:17,790 --> 00:48:21,750
the female goes back in the house and the teenagers remain in the house.

567
00:48:22,190 --> 00:48:27,910
That deputy then advises all units, because now there's a couple other backup units that

568
00:48:27,910 --> 00:48:33,870
are arriving, that the priority at that point is to get the teenagers and the female out

569
00:48:33,870 --> 00:48:34,670
of the house safely.

570
00:48:36,430 --> 00:48:41,950
Based on the fact that the deputy was advised there was a gun and the circumstances that

571
00:48:41,950 --> 00:48:48,890
unfolding. He requests the availability of the SWAT team and activating them with the SINT team

572
00:48:48,890 --> 00:48:53,790
for some negotiations and to attempt to resolve the situation.

573
00:48:56,700 --> 00:49:01,280
At 2027, the suspect's screams don't come in or there's going to be problems

574
00:49:01,280 --> 00:49:05,340
per the deputy on the front of the house. He's able to hear him yelling that.

575
00:49:06,660 --> 00:49:10,800
Meanwhile, notifications are being made for the SWAT and SINT activation.

576
00:49:11,900 --> 00:49:18,620
There's now several patrol officers on scene, a combination of state police, sheriff's

577
00:49:18,620 --> 00:49:18,940
deputies.

578
00:49:22,400 --> 00:49:28,400
The deputy on the rear updates that there is a female inside and two teenagers, 11

579
00:49:28,400 --> 00:49:30,280
and 13, that are reluctant to come out.

580
00:49:31,100 --> 00:49:35,700
I was notified at 20, 33 hours of the incident via cell phone call.

581
00:49:37,400 --> 00:49:41,780
The deputy on the front advises that he can hear Mr. Katie near the front of the

582
00:49:41,780 --> 00:49:50,620
home. Emergency medical is put on standby at Dambi Fire. The SWAT and SIN team is then

583
00:49:50,620 --> 00:49:58,820
activated at 2047 hours. At 2051, the female comes out of the rear of the residence, per

584
00:49:58,820 --> 00:50:04,700
the deputy on that side. Two minutes later, the deputy on the front puts over the air

585
00:50:04,700 --> 00:50:11,060
that the suspect possibly has a 30-30 long gun. And I'm not a big gun guy myself, but

586
00:50:11,060 --> 00:50:16,600
And for those of you who aren't familiar with the 30-30 long gun, it's a rifle that has

587
00:50:16,600 --> 00:50:23,080
a range of about 200 yards, and that round will penetrate any body armor that an officer

588
00:50:23,080 --> 00:50:23,360
wears.

589
00:50:23,580 --> 00:50:29,100
So like the vest I have on would be no protection against a round like that.

590
00:50:30,440 --> 00:50:35,760
2054, the deputy confirms to all the units that are on the scene that make sure that

591
00:50:35,760 --> 00:50:38,540
they heard that he may have a long gun.

592
00:50:41,690 --> 00:50:48,010
2058, a female friend shows up on the scene and deputies start to interview her to get some information.

593
00:50:50,780 --> 00:50:56,460
2101, one of the deputies on the front of the location is able to make phone contact with Mr. Katie.

594
00:50:57,060 --> 00:51:02,060
Short conversation ensues and Mr. Katie states he wants to talk with the sheriff and hangs up.

595
00:51:05,840 --> 00:51:13,760
2108, the deputies tell Katie if he comes out peacefully that the female and the teenagers

596
00:51:13,760 --> 00:51:18,220
were able to stay at the location and that the kid's safety is the most important priority.

597
00:51:20,680 --> 00:51:25,620
2115, the deputy reports it appears that the teenagers and the female are going to come out

598
00:51:26,280 --> 00:51:31,520
and he came up with a plan to not let them back into the building if they do come out and

599
00:51:31,520 --> 00:51:33,860
that would be simply for their safety.

600
00:51:35,910 --> 00:51:39,830
At 2121, per the deputy on the front of the house, the

601
00:51:41,550 --> 00:51:45,950
Mr. Katie yells, if they want to play games, I'll take care of it, shut off all the lights.

602
00:51:48,210 --> 00:51:54,310
Within that minute, lights start going off in the residence, 21-21, so within that same

603
00:51:54,310 --> 00:52:02,370
minute, the female and the children come out of the location and they're taken by

604
00:52:02,370 --> 00:52:04,970
a sheriff's deputy away from the house.

605
00:52:09,260 --> 00:52:14,900
Meanwhile, like I had already noted, the SWAT activation is in progress.

606
00:52:15,620 --> 00:52:19,420
The mobile command is being moved to the scene.

607
00:52:21,790 --> 00:52:27,410
And just a note at this point in time, the weather is about 15 degrees Fahrenheit with

608
00:52:27,410 --> 00:52:29,290
about a six degree wind show factor.

609
00:52:29,750 --> 00:52:36,690
So as you know, standing outside in those conditions, especially if you're not fully

610
00:52:36,690 --> 00:52:38,530
prepared to do that is very cold.

611
00:52:38,530 --> 00:52:44,390
So, we have some officers who have been on scene near two hours now and have been out in those conditions.

612
00:52:47,860 --> 00:52:53,360
When I got on scene, the first thing I did was account for all of the officers that were on scene

613
00:52:53,360 --> 00:52:59,060
to try to figure out exactly who was at the location and make sure that we accounted for everybody.

614
00:53:00,200 --> 00:53:09,780
At 21-25, the sergeant from the Sheriff's Department puts out intel per the female.

615
00:53:10,460 --> 00:53:18,400
believes that there's five long guns in the house, a shotgun 30-30 and a 22. Also

616
00:53:18,400 --> 00:53:24,400
re-advises that Katie is the only subject in the house at this point. At that

617
00:53:24,400 --> 00:53:29,680
point I came over there and reminded all units that that we were going to just

618
00:53:29,680 --> 00:53:33,600
slow down and treat this as a barricaded incident. Excuse me you need to back

619
00:53:33,600 --> 00:53:34,900
Is that what it is?

620
00:53:34,900 --> 00:53:35,020
Is that what it is?

621
00:53:35,220 --> 00:53:36,220
About three inches.

622
00:53:36,520 --> 00:53:37,060
Sorry about that.

623
00:53:37,160 --> 00:53:38,220
I was wondering if it works a little better.

624
00:53:38,640 --> 00:53:39,000
Is that better?

625
00:53:44,150 --> 00:53:52,310
As we've learned from lessons in the past, including why our SENT and SWAT team was formed

626
00:53:52,310 --> 00:53:58,170
back in 1996 when investigator Padula was stabbed in the neck on a similar armed barricade

627
00:53:58,170 --> 00:54:05,790
incident, time is on our side at least at the get-go and there's no need for

628
00:54:05,790 --> 00:54:10,270
anybody to rush in at that moment so I wanted to make sure that nobody was

629
00:54:10,270 --> 00:54:13,790
rushing inside and we could slow it down and continue to have some dialogue with

630
00:54:13,790 --> 00:54:20,310
when Mr. Katie. What time was that? This was 21-28 is when I came on the air to

631
00:54:20,310 --> 00:54:24,850
advise everybody that at this point everybody is out of the house except

632
00:54:24,850 --> 00:54:25,590
for Mr. Katie.

633
00:54:28,350 --> 00:54:33,570
At 21-30 the first train negotiator

634
00:54:33,570 --> 00:54:37,990
An investigator arrives on scene, Investigator Gray, who ultimately ended up running the negotiation

635
00:54:37,990 --> 00:54:38,910
team that night.

636
00:54:42,230 --> 00:54:47,930
Investigator Gray makes contact with Mr. Katie, initially right within that first five minutes.

637
00:54:50,150 --> 00:54:58,470
2144, the first relief members are arriving on scene, some SWAT operators are arriving

638
00:54:58,470 --> 00:55:03,330
and preparing to relieve some of the officers who have now been out in the cold for

639
00:55:03,330 --> 00:55:10,190
several hours. We have a mutual aid agreement with Elmira City so if we

640
00:55:10,190 --> 00:55:15,370
have an incident where there's going to be an extended incident or in this case

641
00:55:15,370 --> 00:55:20,430
the severe cold and we know that you know people can only stand outside for a

642
00:55:20,430 --> 00:55:25,710
couple hours without getting signs of hypothermia we place the call to them to

643
00:55:25,710 --> 00:55:29,070
let them know if this carries on into the night that we're definitely going

644
00:55:29,070 --> 00:55:34,090
to need some relief help. And that's, you know, one of the reasons why at times there

645
00:55:34,090 --> 00:55:41,130
was 30 or 40 people on scene. People can simply only stand outside for so long before they

646
00:55:41,130 --> 00:55:42,550
just simply need to warm up.

647
00:55:46,260 --> 00:55:54,040
During all of this, 2213, the SIN team is now activating. There's negotiators coming in.

648
00:55:54,440 --> 00:56:00,340
They're continuing to make contact with Mr. Katie. Having some success, he is talking to them.

649
00:56:00,340 --> 00:56:01,140
The

650
00:56:06,300 --> 00:56:15,220
2253, most of the officers on the perimeter have been relieved by SWAT team members.

651
00:56:17,020 --> 00:56:21,460
There's a request to put out some light because the residents, it's a rural setting.

652
00:56:22,060 --> 00:56:27,540
It's hard to see at night and there's a request to get some light onto the house so that folks

653
00:56:27,540 --> 00:56:29,720
on the perimeter could actually see what's going on.

654
00:56:29,720 --> 00:56:30,500
I

655
00:56:33,150 --> 00:56:42,070
asked two deputies who were on our SWAT team to take a state police car and move it into

656
00:56:42,070 --> 00:56:47,310
a position where they could put the spotlights on the residents and then I asked them to return

657
00:56:47,310 --> 00:56:50,410
from that position and leave the car in place to put light up.

658
00:56:52,720 --> 00:56:57,040
This now, it's 2317 or 1117 p.m.

659
00:56:58,640 --> 00:57:01,260
The two deputies deployed the car.

660
00:57:02,540 --> 00:57:09,640
A short time after the spotlights were turned on, one shot was fired out of side two of

661
00:57:09,640 --> 00:57:12,880
the residents, which if you're looking at the front would be the left side of the residents.

662
00:57:13,680 --> 00:57:17,300
The round hit near the New York State Police Tahoe that was deployed.

663
00:57:18,200 --> 00:57:23,500
In fact, one of the deputies moved back to a tree as soon as he turned around.

664
00:57:23,500 --> 00:57:30,520
The shot rang out and he saw snow coming up near the front of the Tahoe, which was about 20 feet from where he stood.

665
00:57:33,150 --> 00:57:38,990
2319, after that was called out, the shot was also called out by several other units that were on the perimeter.

666
00:57:39,730 --> 00:57:44,890
One unit observed a muzzle flash in the front upstairs bedroom.

667
00:57:46,390 --> 00:57:52,610
I did a status check and the two deputies that were near the round when it went off stated that they were okay.

668
00:57:56,670 --> 00:58:02,270
2320 the negotiators around the phone with him right after that he advises

669
00:58:02,270 --> 00:58:07,270
if someone doesn't and this is mr. Katie advises if someone doesn't turn up turn

670
00:58:07,270 --> 00:58:12,790
lights off someone will get hurt reports are that Katie is highly

671
00:58:12,790 --> 00:58:16,350
agitated and states that he states to the negotiators that he could have

672
00:58:16,350 --> 00:58:16,970
shot someone

673
00:58:22,960 --> 00:58:29,880
2345 Almyra the Almyra SWAT team was notified for relief and

674
00:58:29,880 --> 00:58:34,820
And they were en route to help us relieve some of the officers that were in the cold.

675
00:58:38,250 --> 00:58:39,970
Let me interrupt for one moment.

676
00:58:40,310 --> 00:58:43,510
At this point right now, how long has it been going on?

677
00:58:43,870 --> 00:58:51,610
So we're right at midnight now and it started at 7.46 was the initial response.

678
00:58:52,070 --> 00:58:52,430
So...

679
00:58:52,430 --> 00:58:53,250
About five hours.

680
00:58:53,490 --> 00:58:55,410
Well, four and a quarter hours, yeah.

681
00:58:55,970 --> 00:58:56,330
Thank you.

682
00:58:56,630 --> 00:58:56,890
Yes, sir.

683
00:59:00,780 --> 00:59:03,560
At this point, so we have several things going on now.

684
00:59:03,560 --> 00:59:08,540
we have severe cold. We have people that are standing out in the severe cold and we're talking

685
00:59:09,060 --> 00:59:15,040
if you live out in the country off of a windy field with a six-degree wind chill. So that is a

686
00:59:15,040 --> 00:59:21,000
serious concern. How long can people stand outside without being being injured? And as well we have

687
00:59:22,020 --> 00:59:29,100
a person inside the residence that has shot out of the residence near us and so we're concerned

688
00:59:29,100 --> 00:59:33,860
for our safety and as well for the cold weather. So we started requesting some

689
00:59:33,860 --> 00:59:38,200
additional resources being armor personnel carriers that we don't have

690
00:59:38,200 --> 00:59:44,260
any of within the county, but some of our contacts mutually outside the county

691
00:59:44,260 --> 00:59:50,860
have specifically Onondaga County, Syracuse City and Broome County. Calls

692
00:59:50,860 --> 00:59:54,060
were made out to them to see if we could get some of those resources

693
00:59:54,060 --> 00:59:58,820
is brought in for protection from both the cold and from...

694
01:00:02,350 --> 01:00:05,150
Quincidentally, all the agencies were able to assist us.

695
01:00:05,350 --> 01:00:10,770
Onondaga County advised that their APC, I'll refer to it as, but armor personnel carrier,

696
01:00:11,290 --> 01:00:14,150
was en route with two operators.

697
01:00:18,520 --> 01:00:25,040
In the meantime, it's now 1.03, 0103 in the morning, now the 31st.

698
01:00:25,580 --> 01:00:30,760
SENT negotiators continue to make dialogue on and off, on and off.

699
01:00:31,820 --> 01:00:36,000
And I'm not going to go into exactly what was said, but that's going on.

700
01:00:36,400 --> 01:00:41,540
Meanwhile, we now have people still out on the perimeter that are getting quite cold.

701
01:00:42,000 --> 01:00:44,640
It's now 10 degrees with a one-degree wind chill.

702
01:00:48,220 --> 01:00:54,840
At 120, the information from the negotiators, Katie stated if his wife's not released

703
01:00:55,300 --> 01:00:57,520
to be with the kids, he will escalate the situation.

704
01:00:59,860 --> 01:01:06,340
0148, another sent update. Negotiators have now been on and off the phone with Katie 14

705
01:01:06,690 --> 01:01:11,060
times since the beginning of the call. During the periods that they were not speaking with

706
01:01:11,060 --> 01:01:13,920
him, they were attempting to reach him a total of 44 times.

707
01:01:17,060 --> 01:01:18,860
At about 2-0-2 in the

708
01:01:18,860 --> 01:01:25,120
morning on the 31st, the first APC arrives at Danby Fire Department and very shortly

709
01:01:25,120 --> 01:01:29,900
there after a second one arrives so we're now able to start replacing the

710
01:01:29,900 --> 01:01:35,820
officers that are standing out there in the cold and exposed and putting them

711
01:01:35,820 --> 01:01:41,480
inside of the APC so they're able to warm up yet still be able to safely

712
01:01:41,480 --> 01:01:42,980
maintain a perimeter on the location.

713
01:01:47,460 --> 01:01:49,800
Negotiations continue through the night

714
01:01:50,380 --> 01:01:54,020
through that that 31st early morning or night.

715
01:01:58,680 --> 01:02:00,440
Several times Mr. Katie stated

716
01:02:00,440 --> 01:02:05,280
that he was going to come out. Unfortunately, he never did come out.

717
01:02:13,200 --> 01:02:14,680
As alluded to, the last

718
01:02:14,680 --> 01:02:26,060
contact was with a negotiator was around 4.15 in the morning. And the last update we got

719
01:02:26,060 --> 01:02:32,700
was that he advised that he's armed up and come get him. And this info was passed along

720
01:02:32,700 --> 01:02:37,560
from the negotiators and then put out to the the officers that were on.

721
01:02:43,210 --> 01:02:44,610
At this point in time

722
01:02:44,610 --> 01:02:51,950
the state police were en route and some had arrived on the scene, some came this far away as Albany.

723
01:02:53,110 --> 01:03:00,510
If I could ask Lieutenant Keiser from the barracks here in Troop C to explain a little bit of how

724
01:03:00,510 --> 01:03:03,290
that work from we asked for the state police to...

725
01:03:03,290 --> 01:03:04,490
Man, we're up here again.

726
01:03:05,590 --> 01:03:08,030
Eight hours, you're roughly eight hours in, right?

727
01:03:08,650 --> 01:03:12,930
And who from Tompkins County is now in charge at that point?

728
01:03:13,690 --> 01:03:18,450
The incident commander was kind of switched between the sheriff and the under sheriff.

729
01:03:19,110 --> 01:03:24,650
I was in charge of tactical command, meaning the deployment of the actual officers.

730
01:03:25,370 --> 01:03:27,810
Investigator Gray was in charge of the negotiating team.

731
01:03:27,810 --> 01:03:35,410
And then the incident commander was either the sheriff or the under-sheriff depending on these two gentlemen. Correct. Okay

732
01:03:36,550 --> 01:03:42,450
One quick question. Yeah, does that mean that that Ken and Brian that were there and

733
01:03:42,450 --> 01:03:47,070
Turns or what was the first time the scene that I believe was

734
01:03:48,310 --> 01:03:51,410
Derek Osborn and then under sheriff

735
01:03:52,170 --> 01:03:55,090
Robinson came in after that. I we did not

736
01:03:55,670 --> 01:03:57,050
know about the incident

737
01:03:58,170 --> 01:04:03,090
until approximately 6 a.m. that morning they attempted to get all of me and it

738
01:04:03,090 --> 01:04:06,690
did not go through my cell phone and I didn't get it until I was on my way out

739
01:04:06,690 --> 01:04:07,690
in the morning so.

740
01:04:10,400 --> 01:04:16,560
So Brian or Derek was there? Right. Yes. Please go ahead sir.

741
01:04:19,380 --> 01:04:22,000
Yeah again my name is Lieutenant Todd Keister of the New York State Police

742
01:04:22,000 --> 01:04:28,520
from the local Ithaca barracks here. Our involvement began other than the

743
01:04:28,520 --> 01:04:33,200
initial two troopers that came, I believe it was two, to assist the deputies at the outset

744
01:04:33,200 --> 01:04:33,720
of the incident.

745
01:04:34,340 --> 01:04:42,260
I was notified around midnight that state police assets had been requested, specifically our

746
01:04:42,260 --> 01:04:48,780
SWAT team, which is referred to as a SWAT team, and I made the requisite telephone

747
01:04:48,780 --> 01:04:51,240
calls to Albany to activate those individuals.

748
01:04:51,780 --> 01:04:56,820
And the way that works is that our team comes in and assists the sheriff's office.

749
01:04:56,820 --> 01:04:57,960
as it remains their case.

750
01:04:58,840 --> 01:04:59,760
They remain in charge.

751
01:05:00,200 --> 01:05:03,980
It's just simply us offering our resources to them.

752
01:05:05,520 --> 01:05:07,400
Needless to say, it takes quite a bit of time

753
01:05:07,400 --> 01:05:09,580
to assemble a team at that time of night

754
01:05:09,580 --> 01:05:11,360
from all over the state.

755
01:05:12,840 --> 01:05:15,000
So a few individuals showed up, a team leader,

756
01:05:15,280 --> 01:05:19,480
and he began immediately to work with Sergeant Young

757
01:05:19,480 --> 01:05:22,020
and some of the other tactical operators there,

758
01:05:22,320 --> 01:05:24,860
just simply to assist over the course

759
01:05:24,860 --> 01:05:27,160
of the very early morning hours.

760
01:05:30,180 --> 01:05:35,240
Eventually, we did get an entire sort team in place.

761
01:05:35,600 --> 01:05:38,700
They brought down bullet-resistant vehicles.

762
01:05:39,440 --> 01:05:41,140
They referred to as Bearcats.

763
01:05:41,780 --> 01:05:45,280
And this simply allows the operators to be in a position

764
01:05:45,280 --> 01:05:47,700
where they can observe the residents be protected

765
01:05:47,700 --> 01:05:50,660
from gunfire and also protected from the elements.

766
01:05:52,340 --> 01:05:53,700
And I don't know if you wanted to continue

767
01:05:53,700 --> 01:05:55,280
with the timeline at this point, or?

768
01:05:55,280 --> 01:05:56,280
Thank you.

769
01:05:59,320 --> 01:06:11,340
I think we left off at the last contact at also just backing up a little bit at a little

770
01:06:11,340 --> 01:06:17,980
after four in the morning, the under-share for Robinson who was on scene notified the

771
01:06:17,980 --> 01:06:21,720
local DA regarding the incident to bring her up to speed.

772
01:06:21,720 --> 01:06:22,520
At

773
01:06:25,140 --> 01:06:34,520
just before six o'clock, a plan was put into place to put gas into the residence in

774
01:06:34,520 --> 01:06:38,660
an attempt to get Mr. Katie to come out.

775
01:06:39,640 --> 01:06:41,460
The gas that was used was CS and OC,

776
01:06:43,900 --> 01:06:45,140
both irritants.

777
01:06:46,000 --> 01:06:48,600
Some people can deal with them better than others.

778
01:06:49,260 --> 01:06:52,980
Most people are irritated by them and it makes them very uncomfortable.

779
01:06:52,980 --> 01:06:57,100
and most people aren't able to stay in an environment that has those.

780
01:07:00,320 --> 01:07:08,480
So a systematic gas deployment was made attempting to get into all areas of the house,

781
01:07:09,220 --> 01:07:13,800
and not going to get into too many specifics, but generically speaking,

782
01:07:14,380 --> 01:07:19,920
the gas is deployed through windows, so it would require the breaking of glass

783
01:07:19,920 --> 01:07:29,620
And essentially, the gas round hits the ceiling of a room, and then the gas that's inside

784
01:07:29,620 --> 01:07:31,960
of that would disperse into the room.

785
01:07:32,220 --> 01:07:36,460
Usually, within each round, there's a couple grams of active irritant.

786
01:07:37,500 --> 01:07:43,100
One thing that we learned later on regarding this residence is it had a large amount

787
01:07:43,100 --> 01:07:45,060
of dropped ceilings within the residence.

788
01:07:45,060 --> 01:07:53,000
So we had no idea of this, and had we known about it, it would probably explain a little

789
01:07:53,000 --> 01:07:57,580
bit better why we likely didn't get the proper reaction from the gases.

790
01:07:57,760 --> 01:08:02,980
The drop ceilings will actually catch the gas from dispersing into the room, because

791
01:08:02,980 --> 01:08:06,000
like I said, they're shot at an upward angle into the ceiling.

792
01:08:06,300 --> 01:08:10,640
Usually they disperse into the room, but meanwhile a lot of that gas was captured

793
01:08:10,640 --> 01:08:11,940
by those drop ceilings.

794
01:08:11,940 --> 01:08:17,860
again that that was something that we learned after after what time was this

795
01:08:17,860 --> 01:08:28,720
this is about 6 a.m. on the 31st the we were able to so we had no reaction from

796
01:08:28,720 --> 01:08:38,380
the gas deployment at about 744 a.m. on the 31st we were able to figure out a

797
01:08:38,380 --> 01:08:45,600
way to get the back door open without actually, we didn't want to just send somebody out to

798
01:08:45,600 --> 01:08:52,600
hit the door open for the obvious reason that like I said our protection doesn't cover us

799
01:08:52,600 --> 01:08:53,500
from a rifle round.

800
01:08:54,220 --> 01:08:58,620
We were able to get that door open using a piece of equipment that goes on one of the

801
01:08:58,620 --> 01:08:59,220
APCs.

802
01:08:59,480 --> 01:09:05,360
We were able to knock that back door open so that we could deploy some robots into

803
01:09:05,360 --> 01:09:06,000
the location.

804
01:09:10,050 --> 01:09:17,210
We sent in initially the first robot, which I won't get into specifics, but we were only

805
01:09:17,210 --> 01:09:20,570
able to look at a portion of the downstairs before that robot was out of service.

806
01:09:21,870 --> 01:09:27,230
And we were then sent in a second robot that had similar problems.

807
01:09:27,470 --> 01:09:30,490
We were able to look at a portion of the downstairs.

808
01:09:30,670 --> 01:09:35,230
We were never able to unfortunately look upstairs in the residence at that point.

809
01:09:36,290 --> 01:09:46,590
At this point, it's now 9 in the morning approximately, most of the people, most of the officers on

810
01:09:46,590 --> 01:09:52,850
scene had been there for the majority of the night, so we started making plans to get relief

811
01:09:52,850 --> 01:09:59,750
and that plan was to turn over the incident to New York State Police.

812
01:09:59,750 --> 01:10:04,270
their sort team they were now activated and were arriving on scene.

813
01:10:06,630 --> 01:10:07,110
Had

814
01:10:07,110 --> 01:10:12,090
approximately 10 in the morning on the 31st. The tactical operation was turned

815
01:10:12,090 --> 01:10:17,090
over to New York State Police sort. Sheriff Lansing was now on scene as the

816
01:10:17,090 --> 01:10:22,030
incident commander and he remained for the day while New York State Police

817
01:10:22,030 --> 01:10:27,770
sort continued the operation in hopes of getting Mr. Katie out. Let me

818
01:10:27,770 --> 01:10:38,370
at any point during that first 8 to 12 hours, did you know who owned the house or did you

819
01:10:38,370 --> 01:10:40,730
assume that Katie's owned the house?

820
01:10:41,570 --> 01:10:44,830
I'm not sure when that intel came.

821
01:10:44,970 --> 01:10:50,230
I know at some point we knew that it was a rental because I know we spoke with, during

822
01:10:50,230 --> 01:10:53,550
the incident at some point we spoke with the owner about it.

823
01:10:53,550 --> 01:10:58,830
But I'm not sure that's good or great if you can test if we knew right that early morning.

824
01:10:59,070 --> 01:11:01,850
I'm not sure point during the 31st.

825
01:11:01,870 --> 01:11:07,610
We did learn who the property owner was and I was familiar with the area and familiar

826
01:11:07,610 --> 01:11:11,210
with the attached business to the property or business that used to be attached to the

827
01:11:11,210 --> 01:11:15,310
property was familiar with those owners and assumed that they own the house.

828
01:11:15,490 --> 01:11:21,710
We were able to verify that through the online service available through the county

829
01:11:21,710 --> 01:11:28,710
and through other resources, and we could eventually make contact with that gentleman, or with at least one of the owners.

830
01:11:31,160 --> 01:11:33,720
Can I ask where was Melissa Cady at this point?

831
01:11:35,000 --> 01:11:36,820
I can speak to that if you'd like.

832
01:11:37,100 --> 01:11:38,580
Yeah, I'm not positive, so go ahead.

833
01:11:38,700 --> 01:11:43,700
At some point throughout the night, we were having conversation and trying to get information from Mrs. Cady.

834
01:11:44,280 --> 01:11:45,820
She was very helpful to us.

835
01:11:46,440 --> 01:11:47,800
Wait, wait, wait. You're not in your mind.

836
01:11:47,940 --> 01:11:51,780
We all had the same concern, and that was getting her husband out on harm.

837
01:11:51,780 --> 01:11:58,180
And she was very helpful to us, providing us with information that we could use, gave

838
01:11:58,180 --> 01:12:04,060
us some ideas as to how we might appeal to his sense of doing the right thing.

839
01:12:05,220 --> 01:12:12,800
She was at one point sitting in a police vehicle with initially some members of the State

840
01:12:12,800 --> 01:12:19,000
Police, and I eventually placed a member of our negotiating team with her to be

841
01:12:19,000 --> 01:12:27,160
liaison basically between her and us and even beyond that she ended up later in the morning

842
01:12:27,160 --> 01:12:33,700
ended up at a friend's residence about a mile, a mile and a half away as the girl flies

843
01:12:33,700 --> 01:12:41,060
and we had law enforcement representation with her the whole time to see if, you know,

844
01:12:41,180 --> 01:12:45,540
from being with her and discussing things with her if there was anything more we could

845
01:12:45,540 --> 01:12:51,880
determine that might help us find the right hook, if you will, to convince Mr.

846
01:12:51,960 --> 01:12:59,100
Cady to come out. And that's – she was accompanied probably longer than she

847
01:12:59,100 --> 01:13:03,880
wanted to be into the day on Wednesday, and at one point it would determine that,

848
01:13:03,900 --> 01:13:08,240
you know, we would stay in communication with her the best way we could.

849
01:13:14,790 --> 01:13:23,530
I arrived probably about 6 a.m. on the 31st and was briefed by the people in charge at

850
01:13:23,530 --> 01:13:25,110
the time and by the undersher.

851
01:13:27,110 --> 01:13:33,190
I then took up position in the command bus with the state police, the captain from the

852
01:13:33,190 --> 01:13:40,370
state police and the sergeant along with many other people on the sent team and various

853
01:13:40,370 --> 01:13:41,190
aspects.

854
01:13:41,190 --> 01:13:47,130
The DA was there at the time when I arrived on the scene so that we were able to all confer

855
01:13:47,130 --> 01:13:49,790
on what had taken place and what our next steps might be.

856
01:13:51,350 --> 01:13:58,170
During the rep to the day, the state police took up position and relieved our local SWAT

857
01:13:58,170 --> 01:14:06,390
people and were able to attempt their negotiations with Mr. Katie during that time but never

858
01:14:06,390 --> 01:14:06,710
did.

859
01:14:07,650 --> 01:14:14,730
They tried various methods besides phones and megaphones, but never did he respond to

860
01:14:14,730 --> 01:14:19,070
any of their requests or phone calls.

861
01:14:19,690 --> 01:14:21,030
That went on for most of the day.

862
01:14:21,190 --> 01:14:27,130
It was very quiet inside that residence from approximately, I think, 4.30 to roughly

863
01:14:27,130 --> 01:14:28,530
5.00 p.m. that afternoon.

864
01:14:29,070 --> 01:14:31,130
We did not have any contact with him.

865
01:14:31,130 --> 01:14:38,110
At one point in time, on that day, I was approached by the commanders from the state police and

866
01:14:38,110 --> 01:14:44,210
they had said that they thought maybe they would like to take and enter the residence.

867
01:14:45,070 --> 01:14:49,970
At that point in time, after taking all the information I had available to myself,

868
01:14:49,970 --> 01:14:52,010
I didn't feel

869
01:15:00,000 --> 01:15:06,400
Still comfortable with that. I conferred with people on the scene and I decided that we would

870
01:15:06,400 --> 01:15:13,900
not attempt to enter that resident's said day. As I put it, time was on our side and I did

871
01:15:13,900 --> 01:15:20,700
not want to risk anybody's life nor did I want to push Mr. Katie into doing something that

872
01:15:20,700 --> 01:15:23,920
might interfere with us successfully getting this done.

873
01:15:23,920 --> 01:15:30,460
So with that being said, we were then shortly relieved again, I think it was a little after

874
01:15:30,460 --> 01:15:34,160
five o'clock, again by the Ithaca and Tompkins squad team.

875
01:15:35,220 --> 01:15:39,860
At this time, I think that I'd like to ask the DA if she'd like to make some comments

876
01:15:39,860 --> 01:15:47,540
on her first day there to verify some of the processes that we went through during

877
01:15:47,540 --> 01:15:48,000
that time.

878
01:15:54,380 --> 01:16:02,320
I got a call from the undershare if I believe it about quarter to six on, what was it, Thursday

879
01:16:02,320 --> 01:16:02,760
morning?

880
01:16:03,960 --> 01:16:04,920
Yeah, Wednesday.

881
01:16:05,400 --> 01:16:06,440
Wednesday morning.

882
01:16:06,960 --> 01:16:12,280
I got up, went to the scene, arrived at the scene I think at about quarter to six.

883
01:16:12,280 --> 01:16:22,140
I was immediately briefed as to the facts that have been recounted by Sergeant Young and

884
01:16:22,560 --> 01:16:30,520
had opportunity to speak to Investigator Gray regarding the attempts to negotiate with Mr.

885
01:16:30,680 --> 01:16:30,900
Cady.

886
01:16:30,900 --> 01:16:41,260
At that time, under Sheriff Robinson and I talked about what I call organizing principles.

887
01:16:41,980 --> 01:16:43,040
I'm not a cop.

888
01:16:43,540 --> 01:16:49,640
I was there to lend whatever aid might be needed with respect to legal questions that might arise.

889
01:16:50,000 --> 01:16:57,140
If we got into a situation where there was a question about a warrant or something else that fell under the criminal law, that was to be my part.

890
01:16:57,140 --> 01:17:05,480
But I do want to recount that from the beginning of my involvement with this, the organizing

891
01:17:05,480 --> 01:17:08,680
principle was to get Mr. Cady to come out of that house.

892
01:17:10,160 --> 01:17:14,040
After Mr. Cady had discharged the rifle,

893
01:17:16,520 --> 01:17:27,990
it was not, in my opinion, having been at a

894
01:17:27,990 --> 01:17:33,530
going to result in storming the House in an effort to get him out because that would mean

895
01:17:33,530 --> 01:17:44,330
somebody would die. And that was never an acceptable outcome. In fact, the huge outpouring

896
01:17:44,330 --> 01:17:49,890
of resources, and nobody denies that they were huge, was done for one reason and one

897
01:17:49,890 --> 01:17:54,670
reason only, and that was to maximize the chance that Mr. Cady would come out

898
01:17:54,670 --> 01:17:59,290
of this alive and that police personnel would not be injured.

899
01:18:00,150 --> 01:18:05,090
Throughout the time that I was at the scene and throughout the briefings and conversations

900
01:18:05,090 --> 01:18:10,910
that I was engaged in, none of the leadership at the scene lost sight of this goal, and

901
01:18:10,910 --> 01:18:17,690
nor did they ever abandon it, even when it would have been cheaper and quicker to

902
01:18:17,690 --> 01:18:23,170
storm the house and likely kill Mr. Katie.

903
01:18:34,100 --> 01:18:43,810
I don't know that there's much more I can offer at this point other than to say I remained

904
01:18:43,810 --> 01:18:51,290
at the scene through Thursday evening and provided whatever legal advice I could.

905
01:18:53,010 --> 01:18:58,910
And I would say from an objective standpoint that it was pretty clear that the priority

906
01:18:58,910 --> 01:19:01,570
of the Policeness Operation was to keep Mr. Katie alive.

907
01:19:02,370 --> 01:19:02,890
Thank you.

908
01:19:03,270 --> 01:19:03,630
Thank you.

909
01:19:03,890 --> 01:19:05,050
Do you may ask a question?

910
01:19:06,150 --> 01:19:06,630
Sure.

911
01:19:06,870 --> 01:19:07,390
Go ahead, Peter.

912
01:19:08,250 --> 01:19:14,630
Gwen, I don't understand the comment you made that if you stormed the house, it would

913
01:19:14,630 --> 01:19:16,490
end up with Mr. Katie being dead.

914
01:19:16,490 --> 01:19:21,270
I mean that's the the assumption you're making is that he would fire at the people who were

915
01:19:21,270 --> 01:19:27,250
storming it but that may be wrong right well the last communication that we had with Mr.

916
01:19:27,330 --> 01:19:35,070
Katie was him saying to the negotiator I'm coming I'm arming come get me okay thank

917
01:19:35,070 --> 01:19:36,710
you the

918
01:19:49,860 --> 01:19:57,660
defendant goes to use deadly force man not the police as we stated we are

919
01:19:57,660 --> 01:20:01,700
not going to go on a debate here. We are here to give you the information.

920
01:20:02,080 --> 01:20:09,180
Uh, excuse me. Please, please, please, please. It's not going to work if we're shouting at

921
01:20:09,180 --> 01:20:12,720
one another, all right? Please listen. Please listen.

922
01:20:15,660 --> 01:20:17,540
Go ahead and please use the microphone, okay?

923
01:20:18,840 --> 01:20:19,860
Yeah, except I'm done.

924
01:20:20,280 --> 01:20:22,060
Oh, all right. Thank you.

925
01:20:22,460 --> 01:20:22,800
Thank you.

926
01:20:23,020 --> 01:20:24,600
We'll go on with the timeline now.

927
01:20:26,840 --> 01:20:33,200
Okay, the next carrying on with the timeline, I know one of the questions that was asked,

928
01:20:35,350 --> 01:20:42,610
one of the questions that came up was why there was so many resources there and just

929
01:20:42,610 --> 01:20:46,590
to speak to that a little bit because that wasn't really answered in the news, in the

930
01:20:46,590 --> 01:20:49,390
media coverage probably because they weren't certain on it.

931
01:20:49,870 --> 01:20:53,730
All the agencies that were listed didn't necessarily mean that those agencies were

932
01:20:53,730 --> 01:20:53,990
there.

933
01:20:53,990 --> 01:21:01,490
For example, Kyuga County was listed, they never sent any personnel, however they did provide us with an additional robot to try to use.

934
01:21:02,010 --> 01:21:05,810
Same with Binghamton City, they sent us some equipment.

935
01:21:06,330 --> 01:21:14,070
So a lot of the agencies that were listed offered us gear and sent us equipment, some of which we were able to use and some of which we weren't.

936
01:21:15,750 --> 01:21:19,890
But generically speaking, that's why that list grew so long.

937
01:21:19,890 --> 01:21:26,950
it wasn't that each of those agencies sent a SWAT team or sent a large cadre of officers.

938
01:21:27,190 --> 01:21:30,730
So I just wanted to put that out there because that's been a little bit unclear.

939
01:21:31,870 --> 01:21:36,690
I arrived back at the scene at about five o'clock on the 31st,

940
01:21:37,450 --> 01:21:41,230
still cold, 19 degrees, eight degree wind chill at that point.

941
01:21:42,890 --> 01:21:58,250
We were planning to take back over the replace the sort tactical officers at six o'clock I arrived a little bit early to get briefed and find out kind of what was going on because I had been home to sleep.

942
01:21:59,670 --> 01:22:06,450
I got in at five o'clock spoke with the sort commander at 1718 sort was still out there and they reported.

943
01:22:06,450 --> 01:22:10,750
They started calling in that they could see Mr. Katie walking around the

944
01:22:10,750 --> 01:22:18,570
residence on level one which would be the ground the first floor. A minute

945
01:22:18,570 --> 01:22:24,530
later one of the SOAR teams reported in that Mr. Katie had a long gun in his

946
01:22:24,530 --> 01:22:30,210
hands. About 10 minutes later they observed him walking near side four

947
01:22:30,210 --> 01:22:36,430
which if you're looking at the house would be the right side of the

948
01:22:37,750 --> 01:22:43,830
1747 back near the rear right corner, or as we would call the 3-4 corner, was the last

949
01:22:43,830 --> 01:22:44,910
place that they saw him.

950
01:22:45,870 --> 01:22:50,330
Okay, that was 547 on December 31st?

951
01:22:50,330 --> 01:22:50,810
That's correct.

952
01:22:53,900 --> 01:23:01,360
In the meantime, negotiators are still trying to call him with no success, the, oh, we

953
01:23:01,360 --> 01:23:08,160
would call it loud hailing, so the PA systems on the Bearcats were used to try to tell

954
01:23:08,160 --> 01:23:15,100
him to come out of the residence but that did not work at that point. At about

955
01:23:15,100 --> 01:23:22,600
six o'clock still the 31st the the IPD SWAT team was back on scene and we were

956
01:23:24,920 --> 01:23:27,340
heading out to replace the SOAR operators.

957
01:23:30,450 --> 01:23:33,330
Into that next evening we talked

958
01:23:33,330 --> 01:23:39,350
about now knowing that he was he was still alive obviously and up moving

959
01:23:39,350 --> 01:23:45,270
going around. We really wanted to try to come up with some things to make him come out of

960
01:23:45,270 --> 01:23:52,110
the house. We knew that the gas deployment was unsuccessful on the first day. So we worked

961
01:23:52,110 --> 01:23:59,190
on coming up with a strategy to put gas into the house again. Obviously at this point still

962
01:23:59,190 --> 01:24:04,090
we didn't know that they had the drop ceilings that I spoke about that I think were working

963
01:24:04,090 --> 01:24:10,290
against us. And we also didn't have really good access to the right side of the house due to a

964
01:24:10,290 --> 01:24:14,390
hill and some trees that were over there.

965
01:24:16,700 --> 01:24:22,160
At about 743, Syracuse police lent us a throw phone device,

966
01:24:22,840 --> 01:24:27,640
which we were able to put into the residence. We weren't sure the status of his cell phone,

967
01:24:27,640 --> 01:24:32,860
so we wanted to create another opportunity for him to be able to make contact with us.

968
01:24:32,860 --> 01:24:40,800
So at about 7.43, that was deployed into the first floor near the area that we last saw him.

969
01:24:46,870 --> 01:24:53,230
Again, continual attempts by the SIN team to reach Mr. Katie via the throw phone,

970
01:24:53,410 --> 01:24:56,150
the cell phone and the landline that we had at the house.

971
01:24:58,860 --> 01:25:04,380
Under Sheriff Robinson then took back over as the incident commander from the sheriff.

972
01:25:04,380 --> 01:25:05,180
The,

973
01:25:08,670 --> 01:25:18,090
like I spoke of, a gas plan was set back up, same types of gas, and that plan was put

974
01:25:18,090 --> 01:25:23,510
into place at about 21-11 on the 31st.

975
01:25:25,550 --> 01:25:30,370
We tried to get gas into some of the areas that we felt that maybe we missed on the

976
01:25:30,370 --> 01:25:36,730
initial day, because if you've never been exposed to gas, if you can move to an area

977
01:25:36,730 --> 01:25:42,150
that is not contaminated or that has good ventilation then you're able to breathe pretty freely

978
01:25:42,150 --> 01:25:47,550
especially if you're not a person that's that bothered by it.

979
01:25:48,870 --> 01:25:54,350
So we worked on systematically getting gas into all the locations in an attempt to make

980
01:25:54,350 --> 01:25:56,490
him uncomfortable and then come out of the residence.

981
01:25:57,590 --> 01:25:59,870
At about 2221,

982
01:26:02,150 --> 01:26:06,830
we were able to, and via the throw phone, which has an audio listening

983
01:26:06,830 --> 01:26:09,790
device, we were able to hear Mr. Katie moving around, no

984
01:26:14,910 --> 01:26:16,670
contact with them though, just hear

985
01:26:16,670 --> 01:26:18,130
some movement, some walking around.

986
01:26:22,070 --> 01:26:26,750
The SENT who monitors the throw phone also reported that they could hear Mr. Katie

987
01:26:26,750 --> 01:26:27,190
coughing.

988
01:26:27,810 --> 01:26:35,070
But again, we don't know exactly where he's at, and the sound is unknown at that point.

989
01:26:35,250 --> 01:26:36,210
It's just coming from the telephone.

990
01:26:36,710 --> 01:26:38,830
I'm sorry, when did you deploy the gas?

991
01:26:39,730 --> 01:26:47,810
We started at 2111 and at 2113 they heard him coughing on the audio.

992
01:26:48,230 --> 01:26:48,730
Thank you.

993
01:26:49,670 --> 01:26:54,090
2221, they could hear him moving around, but again, you're not able to determine the location.

994
01:26:54,090 --> 01:26:56,430
We weren't able to see anything from the outside.

995
01:26:56,630 --> 01:26:58,870
It's dark in the residence. It's dark outside.

996
01:26:59,610 --> 01:27:01,810
So that's working against us.

997
01:27:03,370 --> 01:27:08,090
The next plan on top of the gas was...

998
01:27:09,150 --> 01:27:12,910
And actually, I should back up a little bit just to make it known.

999
01:27:13,230 --> 01:27:17,010
The state police, on their first day that the sheriff didn't mention,

1000
01:27:17,170 --> 01:27:19,830
they also put in two robots into the location.

1001
01:27:20,930 --> 01:27:24,570
And for various reasons, they were never able to get to the second floor.

1002
01:27:25,290 --> 01:27:30,170
So, you know, we have all this technology and sometimes it just, you know, works against us

1003
01:27:30,170 --> 01:27:34,010
and doesn't do what we think it's going to do when we buy it.

1004
01:27:34,070 --> 01:27:38,790
So at this point, there's five or six robots in the place,

1005
01:27:39,730 --> 01:27:42,710
essentially dead where they lie of no use to us.

1006
01:27:43,370 --> 01:27:46,570
So back to the 31st at about 1045,

1007
01:27:46,570 --> 01:27:49,330
We started discussing possibly turning the power off.

1008
01:27:50,950 --> 01:27:54,730
It was a little bit of a tricky situation

1009
01:27:54,730 --> 01:27:57,890
because we didn't want to shut the power down to the road due to the cold weather.

1010
01:27:58,030 --> 01:28:00,650
We didn't want to put other families at risk.

1011
01:28:00,790 --> 01:28:03,630
So the only option was to kill the power locally,

1012
01:28:05,290 --> 01:28:08,590
which required us to be in a compromising situation

1013
01:28:08,590 --> 01:28:11,850
without going into tactics and exactly what we did.

1014
01:28:11,850 --> 01:28:18,750
We got the resources that we needed on scene to cut the power safely without putting anyone in harm's way.

1015
01:28:19,150 --> 01:28:27,150
A team was set out and the electric to the location was shut down at about 11-11 p.m. on the 31st.

1016
01:28:27,150 --> 01:28:35,430
And the idea again is to, in hopes of making it uncomfortable to stay in there and getting Mr. Katie to come out.

1017
01:28:38,400 --> 01:28:41,300
11-11, isn't that 11 in the morning?

1018
01:28:41,300 --> 01:28:43,320
You mean 22-11?

1019
01:28:44,900 --> 01:28:48,920
23-11, yep, so that would be on the 31st.

1020
01:28:49,240 --> 01:28:52,860
So we're just about to flip into January 1st here.

1021
01:28:57,050 --> 01:29:00,650
The throw phone communications

1022
01:29:00,650 --> 01:29:05,050
and attempt to make contact with him throughout that evening

1023
01:29:05,050 --> 01:29:06,550
was unsuccessful.

1024
01:29:11,880 --> 01:29:14,920
We thought maybe he had went down into the basement,

1025
01:29:14,920 --> 01:29:23,200
So we sent a robot that we borrowed from another local county into the basement to look around.

1026
01:29:23,800 --> 01:29:29,780
We weren't able to see much and, of course, that robot got stuck, as did the other ones.

1027
01:29:31,540 --> 01:29:37,800
At 7.52, so now we're on to January 1st, 0752.

1028
01:29:38,760 --> 01:29:47,060
whoever was monitoring the throw phone reported hearing coughing and someone clearing their

1029
01:29:47,060 --> 01:29:48,040
throat in the location.

1030
01:29:51,020 --> 01:29:58,360
At 8-12 on the 1st, the sort arrives back on scene and it takes over.

1031
01:30:00,560 --> 01:30:10,040
Our concern was that we had confirmation now that Mr. Cady was still up, still moving around,

1032
01:30:10,720 --> 01:30:20,020
and we weren't comfortable putting humans inside the location and potentially, like the DA said,

1033
01:30:20,200 --> 01:30:24,380
being forced into a situation where we get a gun pointed at us, whether or not

1034
01:30:25,220 --> 01:30:30,800
unknowing of his intentions and us having to get into a gunfight inside the location. So,

1035
01:30:30,800 --> 01:30:37,880
So we continued to brainstorm on all possible ideas to work from the outside and save conditions

1036
01:30:37,880 --> 01:30:41,340
in hopes of getting Mr. Katie to come out unharmed.

1037
01:30:42,120 --> 01:30:49,020
State police sort commander was on the same page and agreed and if you recall the incident

1038
01:30:49,020 --> 01:30:57,300
in Herkimer a few years back, similar conditions and extended barricade and they did make

1039
01:30:57,300 --> 01:31:05,640
entry and the subject was lying in wait, if you will, and they got to shoot out the FBI

1040
01:31:05,640 --> 01:31:07,620
dog was killed and so on and so forth.

1041
01:31:07,940 --> 01:31:15,080
So we continued to search for methods to resolve it peacefully and safely for everybody from

1042
01:31:15,080 --> 01:31:15,520
the outside.

1043
01:31:15,840 --> 01:31:23,660
So on the 1st at 8.12 in the morning, the State Police sort took back over and I'll

1044
01:31:23,660 --> 01:31:25,360
turn it over to the sheriff because I went home.

1045
01:31:25,360 --> 01:31:26,660
Thank you.

1046
01:31:28,020 --> 01:31:37,360
As Sergeant Young stated, we had the availability of people from the state police that had been

1047
01:31:37,360 --> 01:31:40,200
involved with similar situations, as the one in Herkimer.

1048
01:31:40,880 --> 01:31:47,720
Also the captain on scene from the state police helped extensively with the Pennsylvania

1049
01:31:47,720 --> 01:31:52,360
state police during their manhunt for a murderer in Pennsylvania.

1050
01:31:53,320 --> 01:32:00,320
This is where they had the connections to afford us the ability to use a new armored

1051
01:32:00,320 --> 01:32:01,920
vehicle called the Rook.

1052
01:32:02,740 --> 01:32:09,920
And he was able to contact their commander, the major, and he was more than glad to be

1053
01:32:09,920 --> 01:32:18,180
willing to bring his equipment to our scene to help us to try to once again get the suspect

1054
01:32:18,180 --> 01:32:22,400
out of the house without anyone being put in harm way.

1055
01:32:23,060 --> 01:32:29,560
We did not want to allow our officers to be as Sergeant Young said targets, so we kept

1056
01:32:29,560 --> 01:32:31,440
them in armored vehicles the whole time.

1057
01:32:32,140 --> 01:32:37,040
This apparatus is also an armored vehicle that was specifically made for these type

1058
01:32:37,040 --> 01:32:38,020
of confrontations.

1059
01:32:38,910 --> 01:32:45,360
When they arrived later that afternoon on the 1st, I spoke with a major and one of

1060
01:32:45,360 --> 01:32:49,040
his captains and two of his state police troopers.

1061
01:32:49,840 --> 01:32:53,380
They gave us all a rundown of how the equipment was used

1062
01:32:53,820 --> 01:32:57,160
and how successful it had been in other incidents

1063
01:32:57,580 --> 01:32:59,040
throughout the state of Pennsylvania

1064
01:32:59,700 --> 01:33:02,940
and other jurisdictions in which had this apparatus.

1065
01:33:04,360 --> 01:33:08,120
The Rook is used to start to be able to

1066
01:33:08,820 --> 01:33:12,100
breach the barricades or the houses

1067
01:33:12,100 --> 01:33:13,600
you would have at this point.

1068
01:33:14,440 --> 01:33:24,160
They know where calculated that the spots have to be looked at through their intel that we gave them and the layout of the house.

1069
01:33:25,000 --> 01:33:39,140
They started to do this and there are various pieces of equipment on this apparatus that allows us to look inside, deploy gas if we needed to, and this is what they started to do.

1070
01:33:40,480 --> 01:33:52,880
During this encounter, they made several attempts to continue to have a contact with Mr. Katie

1071
01:33:52,880 --> 01:33:54,120
that never happened.

1072
01:33:55,040 --> 01:34:02,140
We hit the house several times in different areas to try to be able to see better with

1073
01:34:02,140 --> 01:34:09,480
inside the residence so that the suspect would know that we were there and we were going

1074
01:34:09,480 --> 01:34:15,780
to get him to come out one way or the other but we would not allow him to take the time

1075
01:34:15,780 --> 01:34:21,780
to be able to use one of our officers as a target. You have to understand that my position

1076
01:34:21,780 --> 01:34:28,080
on this and why I did not allow them to go into the house on Wednesday is I had no intentions

1077
01:34:28,740 --> 01:34:34,920
to have to have to tell any of the officers' wives or families why they had to risk their

1078
01:34:34,920 --> 01:34:41,040
lives and I surely did not want the outcome to be what it was with Mr. Katie taking his own life.

1079
01:34:52,220 --> 01:34:57,460
Mark you had a question. Can I can you be I don't know what you mean about the

1080
01:34:57,460 --> 01:35:04,040
roof and hitting the house can you describe with it? Sure what this is is what most people here

1081
01:35:04,040 --> 01:35:08,240
in the room would probably be able to relate as far as the foundation of what this vehicle is

1082
01:35:08,240 --> 01:35:15,000
It's a bobcat which many small construction and even large construction crews use to move

1083
01:35:15,000 --> 01:35:19,220
snow or whatever or move debris and things like that.

1084
01:35:19,360 --> 01:35:26,280
This is what the basis of this piece of equipment is made from, but it is all armored and it

1085
01:35:26,280 --> 01:35:28,720
was made specifically for law enforcement.

1086
01:35:29,780 --> 01:35:35,820
It has several different types of mechanisms you can put on the front of it, should it

1087
01:35:35,820 --> 01:35:42,180
be to protect your officers in some way. Also, as I stated, it has camera systems on it that are

1088
01:35:42,180 --> 01:35:47,240
able to, when poked through the wall of a building or whatever you can see inside and see what's

1089
01:35:47,240 --> 01:35:52,960
going on, which as you heard here, our robots were not successful in that manner. What I was

1090
01:35:52,960 --> 01:35:58,940
told when it, when this kept carrying on for a while, I approached the captain from the

1091
01:35:59,440 --> 01:36:04,880
Pennsylvania State Police and I said, tell me, I mean, how much longer will we have to try

1092
01:36:04,880 --> 01:36:09,680
to maybe do this. And he said, I'm going to be honest with you, Sheriff. He says when

1093
01:36:09,680 --> 01:36:16,600
we've used this before, many times one or two pokes, and just the machinery coming up

1094
01:36:16,600 --> 01:36:22,800
through the front door of any home would make people come out. But not always does

1095
01:36:22,800 --> 01:36:23,460
it work that way.

1096
01:36:23,520 --> 01:36:26,880
You're saying that's the equipment that made the big holes that we've all seen.

1097
01:36:26,940 --> 01:36:28,120
That's correct. It was.

1098
01:36:29,080 --> 01:36:33,360
And it's armored so somebody's in it driving, but they're safe.

1099
01:36:33,360 --> 01:36:37,340
Most definitely safe. That's both definitely safe.

1100
01:36:37,580 --> 01:36:38,260
Thank you.

1101
01:36:42,270 --> 01:36:42,590
Michael.

1102
01:36:44,750 --> 01:36:46,430
Michael, go to the microphone, would you?

1103
01:36:50,840 --> 01:36:56,300
I was just wondering, so the last communication for Mr. Cady had been, I mean, hours before this.

1104
01:36:56,560 --> 01:36:59,700
I mean, was there any communication? I mean, did he say anything?

1105
01:37:00,500 --> 01:37:10,320
No. As stated in the timeline, pretty much 0430 was probably the last time on New Year's Day.

1106
01:37:10,320 --> 01:37:15,160
I believe that we had any, so, our new year's eve, right?

1107
01:37:15,360 --> 01:37:17,880
That was the last formal contact.

1108
01:37:18,600 --> 01:37:25,620
We had, obviously, visuals of him moving around by multiple different printer units.

1109
01:37:25,960 --> 01:37:28,380
We had the coughing, and we could hear him walking.

1110
01:37:29,920 --> 01:37:35,500
When I was, and at this point, to make that clear, the dog was removed on that first day.

1111
01:37:35,500 --> 01:37:41,200
The dog came out of the location, I'm not sure exactly what time, but the dog was taken

1112
01:37:41,200 --> 01:37:47,380
out on the first day of the state police op when they were working that initial setup.

1113
01:37:48,640 --> 01:37:56,120
And the last report of any movement in the house was when I got briefed on the first

1114
01:37:56,120 --> 01:38:03,820
at just before 8 o'clock, the state police sort stated that in that afternoon and I don't

1115
01:38:03,820 --> 01:38:09,440
have the specific time but afternoon of the first there was movement within the

1116
01:38:09,440 --> 01:38:14,780
bathroom area on the first floor specifically the washer and dryer being

1117
01:38:14,780 --> 01:38:19,200
moved and something being put against the window and that ultimately was the

1118
01:38:19,200 --> 01:38:24,220
location that he was found so that kind of kind of makes sense as far as it

1119
01:38:24,220 --> 01:38:28,960
as far as that goes but after that that was the the last confirmation of any

1120
01:38:28,960 --> 01:38:32,060
movement in the house, and that was the afternoon of the first.

1121
01:38:33,280 --> 01:38:39,500
We came back in on the first, and the, like the sheriff talked about, the Rook operator

1122
01:38:41,140 --> 01:38:47,480
wasn't quite done opening up what he believed he could to look inside the house.

1123
01:38:48,120 --> 01:38:50,720
It was obviously pitch black.

1124
01:38:50,860 --> 01:38:57,260
We had some scene lighting, but the operator of the Rook, who was a Pennsylvania State

1125
01:38:57,260 --> 01:39:04,800
Trooper stated that he really needed to wait till daylight to finish out the work on the

1126
01:39:04,800 --> 01:39:09,400
right side of the structure and really finish looking inside.

1127
01:39:09,820 --> 01:39:16,540
So at that point we decided that we were kind of at the mercy of them and we would have

1128
01:39:16,540 --> 01:39:23,460
to remain for that night from the first into the second and the plan for that night was

1129
01:39:23,460 --> 01:39:31,300
essentially to just give loud hailing commands for him to come out. We were essentially kind

1130
01:39:31,300 --> 01:39:40,040
of waiting on the finishing of the Rook operation. And again, we were at the mercy of them because

1131
01:39:40,040 --> 01:39:47,440
we weren't able to use the equipment. So to finish out on that final night, the first

1132
01:39:47,440 --> 01:39:57,080
into the second. The Rook operator stated that he essentially completed all he could

1133
01:39:57,080 --> 01:40:04,020
do until the morning. I was at about 21.36, so that's about 9.36 a night. So he did quite

1134
01:40:04,020 --> 01:40:12,240
a bit of work with the scene lighting. At 10.13, Syracuse Police told us that they

1135
01:40:12,240 --> 01:40:19,740
have a long range acoustical device if we wanted to use that for, again, that loud hailing,

1136
01:40:20,200 --> 01:40:28,340
which is essentially a really clear and high intensity speaker that we can deliver a really

1137
01:40:28,340 --> 01:40:33,700
nice clear direction and we can be sure that it's being heard in the house.

1138
01:40:34,620 --> 01:40:41,260
So we brought that out and we essentially had to sit tight for the night and keep

1139
01:40:41,260 --> 01:40:46,760
a perimeter and we used the long-range coup school device throughout the night in hopes

1140
01:40:46,760 --> 01:40:54,820
that he would come out. When New York State police sort arrived back on the scene and the

1141
01:40:54,820 --> 01:41:03,600
Rook operator arrived back on the scene at about 8.16 a.m. on the 2nd, the Rook began

1142
01:41:03,600 --> 01:41:09,560
and finishing the right side of the house where they weren't able to look inside.

1143
01:41:11,420 --> 01:41:16,000
And at about 8.27 a.m., they opened up the bathroom area,

1144
01:41:16,580 --> 01:41:19,360
and Mr. Katie was found in that location.

1145
01:41:21,300 --> 01:41:22,880
Peter Stein. Thanks.

1146
01:41:24,860 --> 01:41:32,500
This is a very clear presentation, and it gives me a big, good picture of what was done.

1147
01:41:32,500 --> 01:41:38,980
but there's one thing that I'm left confused about. Exactly what were you going to accomplish

1148
01:41:38,980 --> 01:41:46,860
with the Rook? Was it to deploy tear gas? Or was it to get a better picture of what was inside?

1149
01:41:47,260 --> 01:41:51,740
And if it was the latter, I don't really see what that gets you because if you find

1150
01:41:53,180 --> 01:41:58,200
the gentleman there, he could go into the next room. So I don't quite understand

1151
01:41:58,200 --> 01:42:00,780
and what that was for.

1152
01:42:01,040 --> 01:42:04,140
Well, I'll let Jake explain a little bit more,

1153
01:42:04,420 --> 01:42:06,520
but so you understand, sir,

1154
01:42:06,720 --> 01:42:10,100
is that any time you've heard it throughout the presentation,

1155
01:42:10,700 --> 01:42:12,680
when you have a barricaded subject,

1156
01:42:13,220 --> 01:42:15,940
you need to continue to make sure

1157
01:42:15,940 --> 01:42:17,460
that they can't feel comfortable

1158
01:42:17,460 --> 01:42:19,060
in the situation that they're in.

1159
01:42:19,880 --> 01:42:22,400
You have to try to dictate as much as you possible

1160
01:42:23,640 --> 01:42:25,440
that it's necessary to give up,

1161
01:42:25,540 --> 01:42:27,400
that there is no hope to continue this on

1162
01:42:27,400 --> 01:42:33,300
and it's fruitless. The Rook served several purposes. Yes, it could deploy gas, but also

1163
01:42:33,300 --> 01:42:37,340
had a camera system that allowed us to get in there where the robots couldn't, all right.

1164
01:42:37,720 --> 01:42:41,820
But it also opened up the house, and as bad as it looked to everybody, and I surely can

1165
01:42:41,820 --> 01:42:47,080
understand that, it did look bad, and it was bad. There's no doubt about that. But

1166
01:42:47,080 --> 01:42:52,840
we were able to make sure that he had no cover downstairs, and we were going to slowly

1167
01:42:52,840 --> 01:42:56,360
go to the second floor also and resolve that also.

1168
01:42:57,240 --> 01:43:01,320
Eventually, unfortunately, there wouldn't have been much cover for him, and he would have either

1169
01:43:01,320 --> 01:43:03,380
had to give up or take his life as he did.

1170
01:43:03,880 --> 01:43:12,820
And I can figure back on that, you know, the fact that he was up and we saw him moving

1171
01:43:12,820 --> 01:43:20,640
around on that second and third day was cause for concern for us as far as the incident

1172
01:43:20,640 --> 01:43:28,240
And it started to make us worry that it was a situation similar to the Hurricane incident

1173
01:43:28,240 --> 01:43:35,180
a couple years ago where essentially the subject barricaded and was lying in wait and just waiting

1174
01:43:35,180 --> 01:43:38,280
for us to make that physical entry into the house.

1175
01:43:39,020 --> 01:43:44,540
And this, like the Sheriff said, is as bad as it looks, allowed us to get a view

1176
01:43:44,540 --> 01:43:48,180
inside safely or as safe as possible.

1177
01:43:48,180 --> 01:43:53,980
And, of course, this is a one-and-twenty-five-year incident, plain and simple.

1178
01:43:54,300 --> 01:44:02,460
I mean, our SWAT team locally has been called out for 34 barricades since the existence

1179
01:44:02,460 --> 01:44:08,960
of the team in 1998, and none of them have gone this long or required that type of equipment.

1180
01:44:09,160 --> 01:44:14,660
So it's kind of like a – I would attest it to similar to like a tornado around here.

1181
01:44:14,840 --> 01:44:15,840
It happens once in a while.

1182
01:44:15,840 --> 01:44:22,580
It's not very often, but based on the facts that we laid out to you, that piece of equipment

1183
01:44:22,580 --> 01:44:29,700
was necessary to ensure our safety and an attempt to see if we could get him to come

1184
01:44:29,700 --> 01:44:29,880
out.

1185
01:44:31,160 --> 01:44:32,780
Mike Feigler, you had your hand up?

1186
01:44:35,750 --> 01:44:37,910
I mean, I really do appreciate the step-by-step thing.

1187
01:44:38,150 --> 01:44:42,710
I just wanted to ask, the negotiation part, that's not really a step-by-step, that's

1188
01:44:42,710 --> 01:44:45,970
like ongoing, right, throughout, and I just haven't heard much about that.

1189
01:44:46,130 --> 01:44:47,130
I'll speak to that.

1190
01:44:47,130 --> 01:44:49,870
Even like stuff that's said, if you would, Mike, please.

1191
01:44:50,810 --> 01:44:51,870
My name is Mike Gray.

1192
01:44:51,990 --> 01:44:53,990
I'm the senior investigator for the ISCA Police Department.

1193
01:44:54,390 --> 01:44:57,770
I'm also a team leader for the SIN team that you've heard about,

1194
01:44:57,950 --> 01:44:59,970
and just so you understand, SIN stands for...

1195
01:45:00,000 --> 01:45:05,860
Unfortunately, the police departments are forced into reacting to situations and preparing for

1196
01:45:05,860 --> 01:45:09,760
the next one based on budgets and personnel and whatnot.

1197
01:45:10,100 --> 01:45:13,380
The team was formed after the death of Investigator Padula.

1198
01:45:13,860 --> 01:45:15,980
I was a founding member of that team.

1199
01:45:16,280 --> 01:45:23,600
I was originally trained as a negotiator by the FBI in 1989 while prior to the formation

1200
01:45:23,600 --> 01:45:24,180
of the team.

1201
01:45:24,180 --> 01:45:31,100
I've received retraining throughout the years, multiple times throughout the year we train

1202
01:45:31,100 --> 01:45:36,620
as a team and just so you understand the team is comprised of members of the Thompson County

1203
01:45:36,620 --> 01:45:41,340
Sheriff's Department, the Ithaca Police, members from some of the smaller agencies

1204
01:45:41,340 --> 01:45:45,980
in the county, representatives from the police agencies on both campuses, Ithaca

1205
01:45:45,980 --> 01:45:50,100
College and Cornell, and most importantly members of the Thompson County Mental

1206
01:45:50,100 --> 01:45:58,000
health outreach team. Those components of the team are very helpful to us so that we understand

1207
01:45:58,760 --> 01:46:04,980
and get a better understanding of what somebody might be going through in their situational

1208
01:46:04,980 --> 01:46:12,220
mental health emergency if you will. As a result of their involvement in the team, many

1209
01:46:12,220 --> 01:46:18,840
members of my team have gone on to get some training in different mental health disciplines

1210
01:46:18,840 --> 01:46:25,960
if you will, so that we understand what they do as well as they understand what we do.

1211
01:46:26,640 --> 01:46:31,980
And with that said, conversely, the representatives from mental health have been to the police,

1212
01:46:32,540 --> 01:46:35,360
what they used to call hostage negotiation training.

1213
01:46:35,520 --> 01:46:40,740
Now it's called critical incident negotiating because we're not always dealing with hostage situations.

1214
01:46:41,200 --> 01:46:46,020
A person can barricade themselves with intent to harm themselves or somebody else.

1215
01:46:46,020 --> 01:46:54,380
out, and that's as important to get them out safely as it is if they were holding hostages.

1216
01:46:54,920 --> 01:46:59,900
In this particular situation, I was the first negotiator on the scene.

1217
01:47:00,640 --> 01:47:06,680
I arrived sometime around 9 p.m., may have been a few minutes after, a few minutes before.

1218
01:47:07,720 --> 01:47:15,080
I went directly to the scene, established communications with the officers on the

1219
01:47:15,080 --> 01:47:19,460
scene, got a brief rundown of what was going on, and immediately reached out to Mr. Katie

1220
01:47:19,460 --> 01:47:21,860
via a telephone number I was provided.

1221
01:47:22,680 --> 01:47:23,820
I spoke with him.

1222
01:47:24,340 --> 01:47:27,700
Our first conversation lasted three or four minutes.

1223
01:47:28,460 --> 01:47:31,220
Mr. Katie was very agitated, very upset.

1224
01:47:31,960 --> 01:47:37,200
Through my training and my experience, it was my job at that time to try to bring

1225
01:47:37,200 --> 01:47:40,580
him down from this agitation level so that we could have a meaningful conversation

1226
01:47:40,580 --> 01:47:43,320
on what it was going to take to resolve this situation.

1227
01:47:45,360 --> 01:47:52,640
Throughout my communication with him, he remained agitated for probably the first 10 to 15 minutes.

1228
01:47:53,840 --> 01:47:56,580
I was able to get him on a subsequent phone call.

1229
01:47:56,720 --> 01:48:03,740
I was able to get him back down to a level where we could have a peaceful and meaningful conversation

1230
01:48:04,420 --> 01:48:07,100
in which he actually apologized for his behavior.

1231
01:48:07,100 --> 01:48:20,740
So he was clearly on an emotional roller coaster because he later went back up in the cycle and was very, very agitated through nothing that was said or done to him just he was on, you know, he was obviously very, very annoyed by the situation.

1232
01:48:21,260 --> 01:48:32,360
We were attempting to have a conversation with him and get him to come out and this was very early on before any of the SWAT teams or other police officers arrived.

1233
01:48:32,360 --> 01:48:37,540
There were police officers on the scene that had gone to serve the initial warrant and there

1234
01:48:37,540 --> 01:48:41,960
were some additional resources that showed up after they realized that the incident was

1235
01:48:42,580 --> 01:48:44,480
going a direction that they didn't want it to go.

1236
01:48:45,420 --> 01:48:52,500
But the SWAT assets had not been deployed, if you will, and he was rollercoastering

1237
01:48:52,500 --> 01:48:52,960
up and down.

1238
01:48:53,320 --> 01:48:56,760
I talked to him for quite a while, and we went back and forth.

1239
01:48:56,760 --> 01:49:05,400
He made some demands and initially we met some of those demands which is contrary in a lot of situations.

1240
01:49:05,660 --> 01:49:11,340
It's contrary to a lot of teachings for negotiating in a situation like this.

1241
01:49:11,700 --> 01:49:16,060
We met some demands and we expected and asked for some things in return.

1242
01:49:16,560 --> 01:49:19,860
One of the primary things we asked for in return was that he come out.

1243
01:49:20,260 --> 01:49:25,940
And when he come out, he come out with his hands where we could see them so that we could see that he was not a threat to himself

1244
01:49:25,940 --> 01:49:31,060
offered to anybody else, and he was told, every step of the way, how he would be treated

1245
01:49:31,060 --> 01:49:35,320
when he came out. He insisted that he not be put face down in the snow. I told him that

1246
01:49:35,320 --> 01:49:39,560
would be happen, it wouldn't happen. If he behaved like a gentleman, he would be treated

1247
01:49:39,560 --> 01:49:43,720
like a gentleman, and we could get past this to the next step and figure out where we

1248
01:49:43,720 --> 01:49:49,580
were going to go from there. That conversation went well, and then for no reason that

1249
01:49:49,580 --> 01:49:54,360
I can identify, he became very agitated again and started hanging up again, and

1250
01:49:54,360 --> 01:49:56,760
And we were able to reestablish communications.

1251
01:49:57,400 --> 01:50:01,340
I eventually asked that one of the other negotiators take over.

1252
01:50:01,640 --> 01:50:03,420
I put a female negotiator on with him.

1253
01:50:03,720 --> 01:50:06,560
She's also very well trained in crisis negotiations.

1254
01:50:07,000 --> 01:50:10,140
She has some mental health training on top of that.

1255
01:50:10,920 --> 01:50:16,120
Some of our mental health assets weren't going to be able to arrive right away,

1256
01:50:16,180 --> 01:50:19,840
but they did eventually get there and were very, very helpful to us with regards

1257
01:50:19,840 --> 01:50:24,820
to giving us some guidance as to what we might be dealing with.

1258
01:50:25,240 --> 01:50:27,220
The female negotiator had some success.

1259
01:50:27,740 --> 01:50:33,580
Mr. Katie asked for a couple of things, including to be able to speak with his wife, which we

1260
01:50:33,580 --> 01:50:34,540
eventually made happen.

1261
01:50:34,920 --> 01:50:36,900
We allowed him to speak with his wife over the phone.

1262
01:50:37,600 --> 01:50:42,080
A request that he made followed by a promise to come out if I would let that happen.

1263
01:50:42,460 --> 01:50:47,360
He promised me that he would come out if he was able to talk to his wife and

1264
01:50:47,360 --> 01:50:53,760
And if he had a couple of other small guarantees, which I granted him, there were small things

1265
01:50:53,760 --> 01:50:57,680
to give him if he was willing to come out and resolve the situation now.

1266
01:50:58,580 --> 01:51:06,260
And this was prior to any armored vehicles, prior to any of this over militarization that

1267
01:51:06,260 --> 01:51:08,420
some people have characterized it as.

1268
01:51:09,860 --> 01:51:13,100
And he had promised on a couple of occasions to come out.

1269
01:51:14,600 --> 01:51:20,220
He was given what he asked for and never gave what he said he would give.

1270
01:51:20,360 --> 01:51:26,680
He never did what we needed him to do and come out so that he could be taken through the next step of the process.

1271
01:51:26,960 --> 01:51:32,620
The next step of the process was getting him in front of Judge to deal with the warrant that he had been dodging for three or four months.

1272
01:51:34,280 --> 01:51:36,780
I wasn't there for the initial service of the warrant.

1273
01:51:36,920 --> 01:51:37,500
I wasn't there.

1274
01:51:37,640 --> 01:51:41,000
I didn't know exactly what had gone on for that.

1275
01:51:41,000 --> 01:51:47,020
But I was able to engage him in a meaningful conversation and for no particular reason that

1276
01:51:47,020 --> 01:51:51,060
I can identify, he would get extremely agitated.

1277
01:51:52,660 --> 01:51:58,040
Even after giving him some of his requests, granting several of his requests, one by accident,

1278
01:51:58,280 --> 01:52:03,260
one of the things he asked for and then he'd come out was he needed assurance that his

1279
01:52:03,260 --> 01:52:10,380
wife was back with their kids and that they were together and that there wasn't

1280
01:52:10,380 --> 01:52:15,620
anybody trying to keep his wife and his kids separated. At that point he had

1281
01:52:15,620 --> 01:52:21,560
already spoken to his wife on the phone from the back of our truck. At that point

1282
01:52:21,560 --> 01:52:27,040
I had put him you know put her with one of our people back in a police car to

1283
01:52:27,040 --> 01:52:32,360
keep warm as Sergeant Young mentioned it was very cold out very bitterly cold

1284
01:52:32,360 --> 01:52:35,240
so we certainly weren't going to have her standing outside in the cold

1285
01:52:35,240 --> 01:52:51,380
So she was in a police car, eventually I directed that she be taken to this friend's home where her kids were, to be with her kids, to use the facilities and get some comfort from the elements because this was becoming a protracted incident.

1286
01:52:53,600 --> 01:53:03,520
One of the demands he started making after he spoke to his wife, promised to come out after he spoke to his wife, when he backed off on keeping that promise,

1287
01:53:03,520 --> 01:53:08,780
promise. He wanted some assurances that his wife and kids were together and that they weren't

1288
01:53:08,780 --> 01:53:17,600
being kept from one another. And I actually at that point wasn't sure that the wife and

1289
01:53:17,600 --> 01:53:22,160
kids had gotten back together, but he was able to establish communication with her

1290
01:53:22,160 --> 01:53:29,140
and verify that they were indeed together at that point. Again, he backed off on

1291
01:53:29,140 --> 01:53:30,420
his promise and didn't come out.

1292
01:53:31,540 --> 01:53:37,840
After our female negotiator had limited success with him, and I say limited success by getting

1293
01:53:37,840 --> 01:53:44,640
him to agree that he was going to come out, he backed off and didn't honor any of those

1294
01:53:44,640 --> 01:53:45,140
promises.

1295
01:53:45,780 --> 01:53:51,000
We eventually transitioned to a third negotiator, a member of the sheriff's department who

1296
01:53:51,000 --> 01:53:56,840
was a very good negotiator, and he kept Mr. Katie on a very even keel for a very

1297
01:53:56,840 --> 01:54:02,760
a very long time, having a good conversation with him to the point where, again, Mr. Katie

1298
01:54:02,760 --> 01:54:07,760
was apologizing and that he was coming out. He even made overtures that he was coming out.

1299
01:54:07,860 --> 01:54:13,700
He said, I'm turning on the light right now. He had told us that he had put a screw in

1300
01:54:13,700 --> 01:54:17,680
the front door so that we wouldn't be able to easily open it. He said he was taking

1301
01:54:17,680 --> 01:54:22,640
out the screw and that he had turned on the light outside. None of our observers

1302
01:54:22,640 --> 01:54:27,760
that we had at that point were able to verify any of that stuff, that the light was coming on.

1303
01:54:28,000 --> 01:54:29,740
He says, I'm opening the door right now.

1304
01:54:31,360 --> 01:54:34,120
And nobody could verify that he was opening the door.

1305
01:54:34,200 --> 01:54:37,660
We had eyes on and nobody was able to see that the door was opening because it wasn't.

1306
01:54:38,360 --> 01:54:42,240
He then became very agitated and ended the phone call again.

1307
01:54:42,720 --> 01:54:46,860
And every time we got him back on the phone, we had to start from ground zero.

1308
01:54:46,860 --> 01:54:53,720
It was right from the beginning again because of the fluctuation in his demeanor.

1309
01:54:54,360 --> 01:54:58,300
I don't know what was driving that fluctuation, and I'm not here to make any assumptions.

1310
01:54:58,760 --> 01:55:04,760
I can just tell you that with the amount of experience and the amount of different skill

1311
01:55:04,760 --> 01:55:11,280
sets that we had on the negotiating team, that we did everything we could, not only

1312
01:55:11,280 --> 01:55:15,000
the first night, but the second day and the second night and the third day and

1313
01:55:15,000 --> 01:55:22,060
third night. We did everything we could. We utilized every tool in our bag with

1314
01:55:22,060 --> 01:55:26,340
regards to the training and experience that we've all had to try to resolve this

1315
01:55:26,340 --> 01:55:33,660
peacefully. There were times when when I was part of my responsibility in in

1316
01:55:33,660 --> 01:55:37,740
running the team was to liaise on between the the tactical side and the

1317
01:55:37,740 --> 01:55:41,280
negotiation side. Some of the times when I would discuss things with

1318
01:55:41,280 --> 01:55:45,440
Sergeant Young, I would ask him to hold off on things because I thought we were making

1319
01:55:45,440 --> 01:55:52,220
promise. There were several times when they were going to try things that they had in

1320
01:55:52,220 --> 01:55:57,420
their tool bag, if you will, that I asked him to hold off on because I thought we were

1321
01:55:57,420 --> 01:56:01,040
making progress and I thought he was going to come out, I can think of at least four

1322
01:56:01,040 --> 01:56:06,640
occasions that I asked for different things to be held off on so that we could continue

1323
01:56:06,640 --> 01:56:12,460
our efforts. There was a long-protracted effort right up to the very, very end of this situation

1324
01:56:13,010 --> 01:56:19,900
to try to communicate with him, including myself spending six or seven hours in one of

1325
01:56:19,900 --> 01:56:26,660
those Bearcat vehicles trying to talk to him over a loudspeaker. This was after we had

1326
01:56:26,660 --> 01:56:32,460
attempted to contact him by phone. In addition to the phone from Syracuse, he said we

1327
01:56:32,460 --> 01:56:39,860
We also had our own phone in there that we thought had become disabled at one point.

1328
01:56:39,940 --> 01:56:41,600
We were able to get it reactive again.

1329
01:56:42,060 --> 01:56:43,800
So we had phones in there beeping.

1330
01:56:44,040 --> 01:56:47,840
He would have had several opportunities to pick up one of those phones to talk to us.

1331
01:56:48,360 --> 01:56:53,480
I don't know if his cell phone died from lack of battery power,

1332
01:56:53,700 --> 01:56:57,020
or if his cell phone ran out of minutes or whatever the case may be.

1333
01:56:57,500 --> 01:56:59,540
He quit communicating with us by cell phone.

1334
01:56:59,540 --> 01:57:05,840
We were never able to communicate with him by house phone even though through one of the listening devices that we had in the house

1335
01:57:05,840 --> 01:57:11,120
we could hear the house phone ringing every time that we tried to call it so there were

1336
01:57:11,860 --> 01:57:13,240
protracted and and

1337
01:57:13,240 --> 01:57:17,260
Just every effort was made to communicate with mr.

1338
01:57:17,320 --> 01:57:19,640
Katie to try to get him to come out

1339
01:57:19,640 --> 01:57:24,580
We let him know exactly what was going to happen along the way he accused us of lying to him

1340
01:57:24,580 --> 01:57:28,200
I and none of my negotiators ever lied to him even once

1341
01:57:28,820 --> 01:57:32,740
about anything and quite frankly I'll tell you that lying is a tactic that

1342
01:57:32,740 --> 01:57:38,480
we're taught sometimes in the right situations. This particular case I cannot

1343
01:57:38,480 --> 01:57:43,520
document one single lie that was told to him. He was many of his demands were

1344
01:57:43,520 --> 01:57:47,720
met which is way beyond where we normally go if we're not getting

1345
01:57:47,720 --> 01:57:52,090
anything in return for the demands. You've all seen the movies on TV where

1346
01:57:52,090 --> 01:57:59,070
they've tried to do these things. I can tell you, we went really, really far beyond what

1347
01:57:59,070 --> 01:58:06,370
you could ever possibly see on TV or in your movies. We have a dedicated team of professionals

1348
01:58:06,370 --> 01:58:13,150
that hone their skills on a regular basis to try to resolve these situations. I don't

1349
01:58:13,150 --> 01:58:19,190
like it when the tactical team has to resolve things. I don't like it when they have to

1350
01:58:19,190 --> 01:58:25,790
utilize what they have. That means that in my opinion that we haven't gotten done

1351
01:58:25,790 --> 01:58:31,330
what we should have. I know that's not the case. Mr. Katie chose to end his own

1352
01:58:31,330 --> 01:58:36,670
life. He made a decision based on whatever was going on inside his head

1353
01:58:36,670 --> 01:58:41,150
and I'm not suggesting that what was going on inside his head is right or

1354
01:58:41,150 --> 01:58:47,910
wrong but he made that decision and there was nothing done that put him

1355
01:58:47,910 --> 01:58:51,630
in a situation where he had to do that at any time he could have come out of that house.

1356
01:58:55,890 --> 01:58:56,330
My

1357
01:59:02,470 --> 01:59:06,730
name is Rick Haas. I'm with the New York State Police. I've been with the New York

1358
01:59:06,730 --> 01:59:12,650
State Police for 25 years. I'm a crisis negotiator myself. I've been a negotiator for well over

1359
01:59:12,650 --> 01:59:16,150
10 years. I've been through the same FBI training.

1360
01:59:18,270 --> 01:59:20,010
I became involved in this incident

1361
01:59:20,010 --> 01:59:24,050
on the morning of the 31st, approximately 9 a.m.

1362
01:59:24,590 --> 01:59:29,110
And I pretty much took over for Mike that morning.

1363
01:59:29,830 --> 01:59:35,230
I attempted to communicate with Mr. Katie from about 9 o'clock that morning

1364
01:59:35,230 --> 01:59:39,350
until about 7 o'clock that afternoon or evening.

1365
01:59:40,350 --> 01:59:44,290
Again, we tried to communicate with his cell phone through the PA system.

1366
01:59:45,270 --> 01:59:48,610
Mrs. Katie even gave us the phone number to a phone in the house

1367
01:59:48,610 --> 01:59:50,110
that only texted us.

1368
02:00:00,000 --> 02:00:06,200
I had four other Christ Negotiators with the New York State Police on scene trying to communicate

1369
02:00:06,200 --> 02:00:15,720
with Mr. Katie throughout the entire day. Frankly, we were at a loss that he didn't communicate

1370
02:00:15,720 --> 02:00:22,800
back with us during that entire period of time, up until possibly 5.15 when one of my

1371
02:00:22,800 --> 02:00:30,140
I sort to your members visually observed him in the residence and we were stunned at that

1372
02:00:30,140 --> 02:00:33,860
time because truly we didn't think he was still with us at that point.

1373
02:00:37,790 --> 02:00:43,980
And then the game plan changed by self and investigated gray then spent the better part

1374
02:00:43,980 --> 02:00:52,440
of the next day the first inside one of these armored personnel carriers up at the house

1375
02:00:52,440 --> 02:00:57,920
attempting to negotiate with him, attempting to speak to him, communicate with him, attempting

1376
02:00:57,920 --> 02:00:59,820
to convince him to come out.

1377
02:01:00,680 --> 02:01:06,440
We used every method in our bag of tricks to communicate with him, to no avail.

1378
02:01:08,950 --> 02:01:09,890
I thank you.

1379
02:01:11,530 --> 02:01:13,510
That is what we were able to give you tonight.

1380
02:01:13,850 --> 02:01:17,590
I am sure that some people still have questions and maybe even doubts.

1381
02:01:18,070 --> 02:01:23,570
But I can tell you that everyone on that scene from our agencies here locally and

1382
02:01:23,570 --> 02:01:29,050
out had one objective. That was to obviously go home to their families, but also not to

1383
02:01:29,050 --> 02:01:35,770
inflict any undue force on Mr. Cady, and nor did we. And as someone already mentioned,

1384
02:01:36,130 --> 02:01:39,650
and I'm not going to drive the point home because we knew that, but we chose not to.

1385
02:01:40,150 --> 02:01:45,630
If you look up Section 35 in the penal law, we would have been more than justified to

1386
02:01:45,630 --> 02:01:49,750
use deadly physical force. And it never was the other used because it was never

1387
02:01:49,750 --> 02:01:52,530
our intent, even though we would have been justified by law.

1388
02:01:53,030 --> 02:01:59,270
We only wanted this to be a success formation where people went home and Mr. Cady was able

1389
02:01:59,270 --> 02:02:00,290
to get the help he needed.

1390
02:02:03,500 --> 02:02:05,980
Any legislators with questions?

1391
02:02:07,160 --> 02:02:07,680
Mark?

1392
02:02:10,300 --> 02:02:17,060
Yeah, I assume that there must be a report like this in writing or there's going to

1393
02:02:17,060 --> 02:02:19,820
be that will include all of this.

1394
02:02:19,820 --> 02:02:26,440
Once all the information is gotten from the corner and also from the state police or team,

1395
02:02:26,700 --> 02:02:29,920
we will put together the entire package, yes.

1396
02:02:30,600 --> 02:02:34,260
Okay. I'll wait on some detailed questions for that.

1397
02:02:34,720 --> 02:02:40,280
Officer Gray, what you've – the story you've told is actually quite moving.

1398
02:02:43,400 --> 02:02:47,660
I appreciate hearing all the attempts that were made.

1399
02:02:47,660 --> 02:02:56,820
And I have some questions about what, Sheriff Lansing, you weren't able to be contacted.

1400
02:02:58,690 --> 02:03:03,440
I was wondering about the robots and the Rook.

1401
02:03:04,240 --> 02:03:05,400
Do they have cameras?

1402
02:03:05,900 --> 02:03:06,980
They have cameras, right?

1403
02:03:07,220 --> 02:03:07,980
They all have cameras.

1404
02:03:08,240 --> 02:03:09,100
Is there film?

1405
02:03:09,540 --> 02:03:11,960
Is it what they ever they saw recorded?

1406
02:03:11,960 --> 02:03:14,880
So I'll speak to that.

1407
02:03:16,100 --> 02:03:17,720
Each robot is a little bit different.

1408
02:03:18,120 --> 02:03:19,380
All the robots have a camera.

1409
02:03:19,840 --> 02:03:23,040
Some of them have actually an articulating arm

1410
02:03:23,040 --> 02:03:25,580
so that you can move stuff if you need to.

1411
02:03:25,960 --> 02:03:26,500
Some don't.

1412
02:03:26,840 --> 02:03:30,020
Some goes from $10,000 up to,

1413
02:03:30,040 --> 02:03:32,420
I'm sure the state police were half a million dollars

1414
02:03:33,140 --> 02:03:34,800
on some of the ones that they put in there.

1415
02:03:34,800 --> 02:03:41,500
But they all stream video via antennas.

1416
02:03:42,260 --> 02:03:47,380
The one that we have and the ones that we borrow don't record that data.

1417
02:03:47,900 --> 02:03:50,820
I'm not sure about the state police, so I won't speak to that.

1418
02:03:51,260 --> 02:03:53,320
There's where a little bit fancier, so they may.

1419
02:03:53,880 --> 02:03:57,080
I don't know, but ours don't record that data.

1420
02:03:57,160 --> 02:04:03,700
So essentially whoever is running it views it, and that has to let people know kind

1421
02:04:03,700 --> 02:04:08,760
know what they're seeing so they may like for example we drove it in and and one

1422
02:04:08,760 --> 02:04:13,420
of my officers said I'm in the downstairs bathroom I can see I've checked it

1423
02:04:13,420 --> 02:04:16,420
there's nothing in there I'm not going to move up towards the front of the house

1424
02:04:16,420 --> 02:04:21,520
and they kind of relay it piece by pieces they go okay so there's no record

1425
02:04:21,520 --> 02:04:26,120
somewhere that's no there's no there's no like DVR recording it

1426
02:04:26,120 --> 02:04:31,100
unfortunately the Rook I don't know about the Rook I don't believe so

1427
02:04:31,100 --> 02:04:33,300
but I'm not going to state.

1428
02:04:33,420 --> 02:04:35,920
The states are a lot recorded real-time.

1429
02:04:36,600 --> 02:04:41,300
Okay. And I guess this

1430
02:04:43,500 --> 02:04:47,700
is obviously, in my mind, a lot more information, certainly more

1431
02:04:47,700 --> 02:04:53,280
information than can be in a newspaper article or three or four or five, and I think we all

1432
02:04:53,280 --> 02:04:58,220
appreciate this. And it really is, it's important.

1433
02:05:00,300 --> 02:05:01,760
I accept that there are probably

1434
02:05:01,760 --> 02:05:06,960
still unanswered questions if I think this I don't think this is going to be

1435
02:05:06,960 --> 02:05:11,260
the last time we talk about it or think about it and that's fine I think this is

1436
02:05:11,260 --> 02:05:16,800
an important first step in getting information out to the public and I

1437
02:05:16,800 --> 02:05:22,720
hope the chair will suggest ways that the public can can share questions and

1438
02:05:22,720 --> 02:05:30,000
we'll figure out you know where we go from here so I just you know those

1439
02:05:30,000 --> 02:05:36,080
Those cop shows, everything gets resolved in 60 minutes, doesn't it, you know, and

1440
02:05:38,740 --> 02:05:39,040
they

1441
02:05:39,040 --> 02:05:43,860
make it so everybody's more or less somehow satisfied at the end because they want you

1442
02:05:43,860 --> 02:05:44,640
to watch next week.

1443
02:05:45,080 --> 02:05:52,240
So it's life isn't like that and I appreciate hearing all this information so I look forward

1444
02:05:52,240 --> 02:05:55,640
to sort of subsequent conversations that we'll have.

1445
02:05:55,980 --> 02:05:58,680
I can address the one concern that you have.

1446
02:05:58,680 --> 02:06:02,120
But only one attempt was made to get a hold of me on my cell phone.

1447
02:06:02,660 --> 02:06:07,040
There was a landline availability, also they know where I am obviously.

1448
02:06:07,820 --> 02:06:13,600
The person making the phone call had the authority to be in charge without me being there, okay?

1449
02:06:13,920 --> 02:06:18,980
And I guess at the initial phone call to me, they didn't feel that I had to because

1450
02:06:18,980 --> 02:06:23,400
the final part of the message was, you can call me back if you want, okay?

1451
02:06:23,560 --> 02:06:26,960
I did not get that until the morning because we don't have cell phones for this where

1452
02:06:26,960 --> 02:06:27,340
I'm at.

1453
02:06:27,340 --> 02:06:31,800
But I do have a landline that I could have been contacted at person making that phone call

1454
02:06:31,800 --> 02:06:37,640
I didn't feel that time was necessary to call me any further than the one message left which I got in the morning

1455
02:06:37,640 --> 02:06:44,400
Well, I can just make an editorial comment if people are coming from on a dog out of from the broom from wherever

1456
02:06:46,400 --> 02:06:48,440
Before the sheriff knows about it

1457
02:06:48,440 --> 02:06:53,000
I wish I wish the channel command had worked a little bit more well

1458
02:06:53,000 --> 02:06:58,160
And that's operational as Sergeant Young spoke to, so, and I don't know if the under-sheriff

1459
02:06:58,160 --> 02:07:00,340
wants to speak to it, but that's their decision.

1460
02:07:00,420 --> 02:07:02,940
I would not make the decision on what they need, so.

1461
02:07:05,880 --> 02:07:08,180
Anyone else from any

1462
02:07:15,030 --> 02:07:18,410
other legislators or under-sheriff?

1463
02:07:19,930 --> 02:07:25,910
I just wanted to make a comment, but I know one of the questions the gentleman was asking

1464
02:07:25,910 --> 02:07:27,350
about costs.

1465
02:07:29,190 --> 02:07:30,810
I was going to ask that, but go ahead.

1466
02:07:31,630 --> 02:07:31,770
Okay.

1467
02:07:33,250 --> 02:07:40,110
We do have costs, and it seems it's always a question that's asked after the fact.

1468
02:07:40,250 --> 02:07:50,010
I can tell you that when any time there's in this operation or any operation cost is

1469
02:07:50,010 --> 02:07:59,070
of no concern as it relates to people's lives, but you do have to do figure out costs afterwards.

1470
02:08:00,530 --> 02:08:10,010
This is very much a mutual aid incident, and as such, any outside agencies bear their

1471
02:08:10,010 --> 02:08:16,970
own costs, as we would if we went to Elmira to help them say.

1472
02:08:21,290 --> 02:08:29,490
There was a cost, a monetary cost, and it's unfortunate that this actually happened over

1473
02:08:29,490 --> 02:08:32,170
a holiday, which adds to the cost.

1474
02:08:32,170 --> 02:08:42,030
cost. The cost was actually a bit less than I thought it would be, additional costs of

1475
02:08:42,030 --> 02:08:45,150
roughly $13,000.

1476
02:08:50,190 --> 02:09:00,230
Well, I'm talking about costs that we had to bear. Okay. Someone asked the

1477
02:09:00,230 --> 02:09:01,850
I'm trying to answer the question.

1478
02:09:03,670 --> 02:09:04,070
Okay.

1479
02:09:09,490 --> 02:09:13,410
I just want to see why the stand-off of Windsor-Pende's prior.

1480
02:09:14,430 --> 02:09:15,250
You guys know about it?

1481
02:09:20,080 --> 02:09:20,480
I'm

1482
02:09:24,860 --> 02:09:27,600
not going to put the answer, but yes, Windsor and Sinaloa are halfway.

1483
02:09:28,460 --> 02:09:32,180
I was saying if you didn't bring mine, move that, do a research and read a little bit.

1484
02:09:33,200 --> 02:09:38,580
No, we're not, we're not doing questions from their audience.

1485
02:09:39,280 --> 02:09:39,660
I'm sorry.

1486
02:09:40,160 --> 02:09:49,100
Let me ask, let me ask a really dumb question and was there ever a thought, was there ever

1487
02:09:49,100 --> 02:09:54,820
a thought that, that you would, everyone would drive away and leave a couple of people

1488
02:09:54,820 --> 02:09:55,140
there?

1489
02:09:57,020 --> 02:09:58,660
And what would that accomplish Jim?

1490
02:09:58,820 --> 02:10:03,020
I don't quite understand because how could we, I mean now we're going to start to

1491
02:10:03,020 --> 02:10:08,080
think about we're going to start to think about what if whoa whoa we can't

1492
02:10:08,080 --> 02:10:21,410
think about what if what once he fired once there was we once we established

1493
02:10:21,410 --> 02:10:29,570
that the Katie subject had weaponry okay and we had been there along with the

1494
02:10:29,570 --> 02:10:34,890
state police well over a dozen times to try to serve this warrant okay all

1495
02:10:34,890 --> 02:10:43,590
This time they weren't able to leave from the information they were able to establish from Mrs. Katie that he had a gun and it was loaded.

1496
02:10:44,150 --> 02:10:48,810
Our first objective was to get rid of any hostages, which they did.

1497
02:10:49,970 --> 02:11:03,570
Our next objective is to make sure the community is safe and you cannot leave somebody that has already made up his mind from the intel that we had.

1498
02:11:03,570 --> 02:11:08,230
He had a loaded gun. She must have felt there was a need to tell us. Okay

1499
02:11:08,230 --> 02:11:11,910
She felt there was a need to tell us that that also sends a message to us

1500
02:11:11,910 --> 02:11:18,030
She never told us that any of the other times that we were there. Okay, we have to make sure the community's safe

1501
02:11:25,720 --> 02:11:29,580
Do that I think we're done unless you have a question

1502
02:11:30,820 --> 02:11:31,260
you

1503
02:11:32,200 --> 02:11:37,200
Sheriff Lansing you said that once you have the coroner's report and

1504
02:11:38,480 --> 02:11:44,000
information from all the involved entities. There will be a final report, but you didn't

1505
02:11:44,000 --> 02:11:45,580
say when you anticipate that.

1506
02:11:47,200 --> 02:11:51,260
I, you know, I have no idea. I mean, you know, I don't know how long the coroner's going

1507
02:11:51,260 --> 02:11:54,700
to take. I don't know, you know, I don't do that business, and I don't know how long

1508
02:11:54,700 --> 02:11:58,780
the state police is going to take to get what we need, but they know we need it, and

1509
02:11:58,780 --> 02:12:02,040
I'm sure we will be getting it when it's finished on their behalf.

1510
02:12:08,540 --> 02:12:13,780
I'm going to try to say what I said before, this is not the last time we're going to talk

1511
02:12:13,780 --> 02:12:14,380
about this.

1512
02:12:15,120 --> 02:12:22,340
And I would really encourage people, let me first say, today's January 12th, Tompkins

1513
02:12:22,340 --> 02:12:25,080
County's committee structure turns over in January.

1514
02:12:25,880 --> 02:12:31,700
So this is, I assume, the last meeting of this particular Public Safety Committee.

1515
02:12:31,700 --> 02:12:38,120
committee. As of next month, the chair will appoint, Mike Lane will appoint new committees.

1516
02:12:38,640 --> 02:12:42,200
We don't know at this moment who that's going to be. We don't know if any of the four of

1517
02:12:42,200 --> 02:12:48,140
us will be on the public safety committee. Whoever does take these positions next is

1518
02:12:48,140 --> 02:12:49,940
certainly going to know what happened here tonight.

1519
02:12:52,700 --> 02:12:59,080
So I would ask the public's patience because this is a unique transitional moment when,

1520
02:12:59,080 --> 02:13:02,240
Jim is not necessarily, he may, but we don't know.

1521
02:13:02,380 --> 02:13:04,500
Maybe the next chair of this committee, we don't know.

1522
02:13:05,060 --> 02:13:11,500
So I can confidently say to you, there will be follow-up.

1523
02:13:11,740 --> 02:13:16,320
We will find out, we'll get the full report.

1524
02:13:16,760 --> 02:13:19,400
We'll have more discussions about this.

1525
02:13:19,940 --> 02:13:22,600
The next committee and the chair of the legislature

1526
02:13:22,600 --> 02:13:24,640
will certainly talk about what to do next.

1527
02:13:26,080 --> 02:13:33,060
In the meantime, I suppose maybe the, I don't know, Jim, you think people should send questions

1528
02:13:33,060 --> 02:13:35,360
to you or to Mike Lane or to Cheryl?

1529
02:13:35,660 --> 02:13:43,120
Well, yeah, either me or Mike Lane or the critical legislature and she will certainly

1530
02:13:43,120 --> 02:13:45,620
send it on to us.

1531
02:13:45,880 --> 02:13:51,680
So people can know that the questions that they have are going to be answered, right.

1532
02:13:51,680 --> 02:14:00,860
So, it's Kathy Covert, the e-mail is ccovertatomkins-co.org, that's all on the website.

1533
02:14:00,980 --> 02:14:06,180
If you go on our website, you can find all our names and places to send it.

1534
02:14:06,500 --> 02:14:14,560
And obviously, the Sheriff's Office, you know, would forward any questions or comments to the legislature that have to deal with that.

1535
02:14:21,300 --> 02:14:23,680
Is there a motion to adjourn this meeting?

1536
02:14:24,280 --> 02:14:25,620
Why don't have the rest of the agenda?

1537
02:14:25,620 --> 02:14:31,590
Or I'm sorry. I'm sorry. You don't want to deal with the rest of it. No, I don't as a matter of fact

1538
02:14:32,960 --> 02:14:40,100
I asked you I want something in the record about something I want on the next public safety committee meeting. All right, go ahead

1539
02:14:40,700 --> 02:14:47,640
We had presented to us at the last December legislative meeting by a member of the public

1540
02:14:47,640 --> 02:14:52,740
Who may still be here. I don't know an example of the way

1541
02:14:53,520 --> 02:14:54,960
data are reported

1542
02:14:55,620 --> 02:14:59,860
from a County Sheriff's County Sheriff's Department in a Missouri

1543
02:15:00,000 --> 02:15:03,280
Consider, and have our sheriff consider using this other format.

1544
02:15:05,120 --> 02:15:11,560
Forward it to us, Julie, and we will see it gets in the right hands. Is there a motion to adjourn?

1545
02:15:11,820 --> 02:15:16,080
I would move, if I could just move the appointments in the minutes all at once.

1546
02:15:16,560 --> 02:15:18,340
The minutes I have some things on.

1547
02:15:20,080 --> 02:15:21,240
I'll move the appointments.

1548
02:15:21,560 --> 02:15:28,140
Oh, I'll withdraw my, or is there a second to the appointments in the minutes from the last meeting?

1549
02:15:28,140 --> 02:15:32,380
I will second the appointments, but I have changes for the minutes.

1550
02:15:35,840 --> 02:15:39,740
All in favor of the appointments, please raise your hand.

1551
02:15:43,800 --> 02:15:45,980
Okay, that passes unanimously.

1552
02:15:46,580 --> 02:15:47,440
Motion to adjourn.

1553
02:15:48,780 --> 02:15:49,880
Is there a second?

1554
02:15:50,940 --> 02:15:51,300
Second.

1555
02:15:51,620 --> 02:15:52,060
All in favor?

1556
02:15:52,780 --> 02:15:53,120
Aye.

1557
02:15:53,120 --> 02:15:56,960
Thank you all for coming.