[This transcript was generated automatically from audio using AI and hasn't been reviewed by a person -- it can contain mistakes, including plausible-sounding sentences that were never actually said. Treat it as a starting point, not a verbatim record.]

[0:00] I want to call this meeting to order, and let me introduce people around the table from the
[0:07] county at this particular time. This is Michelle Potteroff, the deputy clerk, legislature clerk,
[0:18] Mike Sigler, Peter Stein, Julie Kiefer, a member of the committee, Joe Mariana, the county
[0:24] attorney, yeah, county attorney, the county administrator, and also the county attorney.
[0:31] And Martha Robertson, a legislator.
[0:36] Jim, you want to make it more clear which of us are actually on the committee?
[0:42] Martha and Dooley are the members of the committee, and Leslie McBean-Clariborne, and she is
[0:50] not here yet.
[0:51] There are only four of us.
[0:53] One of the people in the room right now used to be the chair of the committee, but he got
[0:58] better job.
[1:06] Let me say how this is going to go, or I would hope that it would go.
[1:13] There's a chair's report on the agenda, and if you look at it, if you don't have a copy
[1:18] of the agenda, under committee meetings, we generally don't have people, we don't
[1:24] have privilege of the floor for the public.
[1:27] But obviously this meeting has been addressed a certain way and advertised a certain way
[1:34] and there are members of the public here and you are in.
[1:38] And so we're expecting that you're going to speak at the microphone.
[1:44] I have asked that people fill out blue cards or blue sheets and it makes it easier for
[1:51] us to keep track of people.
[1:54] The way I want to put the meeting together.
[1:56] We have an agenda item that we need to get through before we actually do the public portion
[2:03] of the meeting, and that should be very short in duration, and we need to add it to the
[2:12] agenda.
[2:13] It is for the members of the committee, it's an authorization to accept Homeland Security
[2:20] Grants and its Department of Emergency Response.
[2:24] Lee Shirtliffe is here to talk about it, could I get it on the floor please?
[2:28] Someone move it, Martha moves, Julie seconds.
[2:33] Discussion, where are you Lee?
[2:38] Right, okay. You want to talk about this a little bit?
[2:42] I'll be brief Jim. As the committee members will know, the county is eligible for funding from the state
[2:50] Homeland Security Program and has been for about the last 12 years for projects that
[2:56] are proposed by the emergency response community.
[3:01] And typically there's an allocation at the county-wide level and we bring to you our
[3:05] recommendations and proposals that are approved by the state.
[3:11] In the past few years we have secured grants to improve upon the interoperable radio communication
[3:17] education system, the computer-aided dispatch system with its enhancements, training and
[3:23] education initiatives for the responders, as well as enhancements to the Emergency Operations
[3:28] Center.
[3:29] What I have here today are four grants or portions of four grants and awards that I'm
[3:36] asking for acceptance of, and what they will be used to do is to fund a number
[3:43] of ongoing projects that were long identified in the office.
[3:47] Among those, one is an enhancement to the computer-aided dispatch system which automates
[3:52] our voice-paging process so that when a call is accepted and created for dispatching, it
[3:59] will take the text of the call, turn it into a voice message, and transmit it out.
[4:06] And the purpose of that is to shorten the dispatching time.
[4:08] The second project that's included is a web-based EOC emergency operations center management software system that allows us to document our emergency plans, resource listings, and so on,
[4:25] and provide multidisciplinary capability to all of our jurisdictions so that when there's a large-scale disaster, snowstorm, ice storm, whatever the case may be,
[4:36] They have that resource database and management tool in the EOC and extended out through the web to their operations.
[4:44] The third part of this is to update our ortho imagery, our overhead aerial photography for the computer-aided dispatch system,
[4:54] so that when we identify a location, we not only have the tax-based and GIS-based mapping system for the dispatchers
[5:03] and responders to work with, but can also bring up the location information.
[5:08] A lot of what we have today are 9-1-1 cellular calls where people are unaware of what a specific
[5:14] address can be, but through this tool we're able to at least take the visual descriptions
[5:20] and locate the general area where they are.
[5:22] If they say I'm in front of a yellow barn on Route 222, we can bring that up and identify
[5:27] them and that information is there.
[5:29] And the fourth piece is a continuation of a project with the Sheriff's Office we initiated
[5:34] in 2013 for a training simulator device.
[5:39] And at that time by resolution 108 funding was accepted.
[5:45] Our office went out and secured the balance of it so that they can continue through with
[5:49] that training simulator.
[5:51] And those are the projects that would be funded through this resolution.
[5:55] looking for your approval to accept and move forward.
[5:59] Okay.
[6:00] Questions by any of the committee members or legislators around the table?
[6:05] Martha.
[6:06] Highly, that last one, well, last on the page here.
[6:10] Pictometry, refresh for placement of 10-year-old overhead imagery.
[6:16] Are they going to redo all the photographs of the county?
[6:19] They are, and it's not just the ortho imagery that's the top down or flat,
[6:25] flats, but from various directions so that you can actually see the sides and the roads
[6:31] and the landmarks and landscape.
[6:34] Okay.
[6:35] The whole thing.
[6:36] I can't believe 10 years have gone by.
[6:39] I remember when you came to us the first time about this.
[6:43] Okay.
[6:43] And there have been thousands of changes to the landscape, as the assessment department
[6:48] will tell you.
[6:49] They share in this as well.
[6:51] It's a tool that the assessment department can use to also verify property information.
[7:00] Anyone else?
[7:01] Julie.
[7:01] What is the WM stand for?
[7:06] That's the state contract number.
[7:09] And off the top of my head, I can't tell you what the WM is.
[7:14] That's just curious.
[7:15] That's fine.
[7:15] Each agency has a different identifier, and one is where the DCJS Division of Criminal
[7:22] justice services, one is with the Office of Homeland Security, one's with the
[7:25] State Comptroller, and they all have different numbers that we reference.
[7:32] Anyone else? Questions or comments? Martha?
[7:35] I have a question. After we finish this, I have a different question for Lee.
[7:40] Julie?
[7:40] I have a note on the resolution. The final resolve says the county contracts
[7:48] administrator. I think it should just be the county administrator.
[7:52] Yeah. I see contracts crossed off on mine. So you want County Administrator?
[7:59] It wasn't crossed out on mine yet.
[8:01] Oh, okay. Well, it is on mine. Anything else? Are you ready to vote on this?
[8:07] Move it on. All in favor, signify by saying aye.
[8:10] Aye. Post-Fenny. Martha, you had a question.
[8:13] Yeah, Lee, later on we'll talk about mutual aid with law enforcement.
[8:18] Do we have mutual aid with other counties for emergency response, including Skylar County?
[8:26] Yes.
[8:29] Have you made any particular requests to Skylar County regarding any emergency plans they have
[8:38] of the salt storage, the natural gas storage and methane and liquid propane storage in the
[8:47] Crestwood facility in the town of Redding. It would be interesting if I would appreciate
[8:53] if you could check with them about their emergency plans regarding that project.
[8:59] I will do that. We do periodically meet as regional coordinators and talk about
[9:04] major projects and we've got a nine county hazardous materials consortium in
[9:08] fact they met at our office last Friday I don't know if that is one of the
[9:12] topics they discussed but I'd be glad to look into that. Okay great thanks a lot.
[9:17] Thanks very much.
[9:19] Any other questions for Lee? All right thank you very much for
[9:24] moving us on to the ledge and Lee thank you for you know continuing your
[9:29] work in getting this grant for us.
[9:32] Thank you.
[9:32] All right.
[9:34] Let me introduce Leslie B. Clairborn,
[9:37] a member of the Public Safety Committee,
[9:40] and deputy county attorney, yeah, county administrator
[9:43] Paul Younger.
[9:45] We just got a new deputy county attorney,
[9:49] and he's down here.
[9:50] His name is Bill Freud.
[9:51] I don't know why that's on my mind.
[9:54] Now comes the public portion of the meeting.
[9:58] As I said at the beginning, if you wanted to talk, you should fill out a blue form.
[10:07] If you did not fill out the blue form, then I will take it in order after these people
[10:13] have been called.
[10:14] I would appreciate it very much if you try to limit yourself to three minutes.
[10:19] And also, even though you may have filled out a blue form, please say your name
[10:26] and address, you know, basically so that we can identify where you're from town. It makes
[10:32] it a little bit easier during the minute time.
[10:37] And for other late arrivers, the way we do
[10:41] these things, public portion of the meeting, generally people talk, we listen, we do not
[10:50] have a back and forth between the legislators and the public speakers at this time.
[10:59] So if we're ready to go, the first person I have is Frederick Dietrich, better known
[11:06] as Rick Dietrich, and if you want to, Rick, you want to come to the microphone.
[11:13] And I believe it's turned on, if not clicking on there.
[11:17] Now there's a there's a switch right on the back side. Mike, would you please show them up on top?
[11:22] There are a couple of other seats over here
[11:28] You hear me now? I can. All right
[11:30] My name is Rick Dietrich. I'm the supervisor for the town of Namby and
[11:36] I think everybody's pretty well aware that we had an incident go down in our town on Hornbrook Road
[11:47] This is my I've been around this business for a long time and this is
[11:51] probably the first time that I've had a community that I think has been so very alarmed at what
[11:59] happened. And I humbly come before you and ask that if there is so much supposition,
[12:08] there are so many questions, there are so many second guessing that's going on with
[12:13] this issue. But at some point I need to bring answers back. And the only way I really
[12:19] to know how to do that is to have an after-action report drawn up by law enforcement officials
[12:25] so we can get an accurate assessment of exactly what went down and where.
[12:30] And then I would also humbly ask if we could have a group do an independent overview of
[12:35] that to try to glean out what best practices we can learn from this or what kinds of communication
[12:43] efforts that we might have done a better job with.
[12:47] I did have to operate my town for a number of days without a highway department, without
[12:53] a financial officer.
[12:54] I was not able to get my end of the year reports out.
[12:56] I was not able to be in compliance with the state.
[12:59] And I do feel in a lot of ways my residents were put at risk because I was not able
[13:03] to get at my highway equipment.
[13:06] I'm a representative from the Council of Governments, the County Emergency Management,
[13:10] and I think I'm well aware of policies and procedures.
[13:14] And one of them that comes to the top of the list for me almost all the time is communication,
[13:20] communication, communication.
[13:23] And in this particular instance, that was lacking, not only from the law enforcement,
[13:29] but from any other authority that I tried to get in contact with.
[13:33] So again, humbly I would appreciate if the law enforcement does an after-action report
[13:39] and that that be independently reviewed.
[13:41] Thank you very much.
[13:44] Thank you, Rick.
[13:45] I was – I neglected to mention at the beginning of the meeting before the first person spoke
[13:56] that the way I feel about this and the way I hope that we can move forward as we make
[14:04] comments and discuss this further, that there are many – there have been in this
[14:11] County over 25 years, a few incidents like this, they've ended up in different ways with
[14:20] different kinds of situations.
[14:22] And my hope is that each one of these things, we've learned something and we've moved forward
[14:29] from that.
[14:30] And I'm hoping that at the end of this discussion, maybe not today, but as this incident is talked
[14:38] talked about in the community and dealt with, that we will end up with a better result and
[14:46] we will have learned something from it today and in the future that when it comes up again,
[14:53] if something like this comes up again, we have a way to deal with it.
[15:00] That's clearly what my goal is, and I think that's the goal. I can speak to the county legislature
[15:05] and say that's what we're looking to do. So next person I have is Tom Beeshani. All right.
[15:17] Seanie. Sorry.
[15:24] So I'm Tom Seanie from Marsh Road in Dambi. I still hear almost a week ago
[15:30] go and address the legislature about my concerns about the unanswered questions revolving around
[15:39] this incident. And they're still unanswered. My call to the sheriff has gone, unreturned.
[15:51] And in fact, there's even more questions that have come to light since then that just
[15:55] don't make sense in the context of what we were told, what the newspaper told us
[16:00] and the general, you know, official story.
[16:06] So I'm not saying that this may be a huge cover-up going on and like that,
[16:10] but it just lends to that kind of an attitude when things just don't sound right,
[16:15] when people don't get you answers right away.
[16:22] So my own interest would be a public forum of some sort,
[16:27] Maybe, you know, an official statement from the Sheriff's Department, we could ask questions.
[16:35] Your idea of having, you know, a more official sounding report sounds good, too, but it doesn't still give public input.
[16:44] And that seems like judging by the number of people who have been upset by this, I think there's got to be some way of doing it, some kind of public input aspect to it.
[16:57] I think the stakes here are kind of higher than usual.
[17:02] You know, a man who's lost his life, a family has been completely torn apart.
[17:09] And it's, you know, the sooner this gets resolved, the better.
[17:15] There's a lot of bad feeling going around now.
[17:18] And I just don't want Danby to be on the newspapers around the country
[17:24] if you want to understand for this kind of thing.
[17:26] It's getting a lot of press because of what went on,
[17:29] and it's not necessarily good press.
[17:33] Thank you.
[17:34] Okay, thank you.
[17:36] David Nazar, Newfield.
[17:39] Jim?
[17:41] Do I understand correctly this meeting
[17:42] is being livestreamed right now?
[17:45] It is, it's being videoed also.
[17:48] Okay, but sent out right now, but also videos.
[17:51] Okay, thank you.
[17:53] Hi, my name is Dave Naser, and I'm a resident in the town, or, you know, the town of Newfield.
[17:58] And I just wanted to take this opportunity.
[18:00] I mean, it was a very, very unfortunate situation that occurred with the death of a person
[18:05] and like the other gentlemen said, family torn apart.
[18:09] But I want to thank the law enforcement people who were involved in this.
[18:12] I'm sure the decisions they made and the things that they took into account were not taken lightly.
[18:18] I was previously law enforcement myself.
[18:20] So, I understand the thought process and all of what's involved, and I just wanted to publicly
[18:26] thank them all for the work they did, whether you agree with all the situations or not,
[18:31] but I think they did a good job as they put under the situation.
[18:36] Thank you.
[18:36] Thank you.
[18:39] I have Kelly, SKE, is it, SKEVAL,
[18:46] okay, you may come here or there?
[18:57] Yeah, I'm Kelly. I am also a
[19:01] Skevel. My name's Kelly Skevel. I am a resident in the town of Danby
[19:05] also, and I am also a police wife.
[19:09] I just wanted to take a moment, you know,
[19:13] to address everybody and say that this is an unfortunate
[19:16] incident. It's very sad, you know, for everybody
[19:21] involved. There, having said that, there seems to be
[19:25] a personal attack, at least from my point of view, on the law enforcement that were involved in this.
[19:33] And it was very difficult for them, difficult for their families, difficult to watch the media's reporting on it.
[19:40] And, you know, the dehumanization of the police, you know, is very hard to take as the family members too.
[19:48] I mean, this is difficult on them.
[19:50] You know, so we're just, as the family members of the police who are getting negative publicity
[19:57] all around the country right now, we're asking, you know, that you remember that these are
[20:01] men and women, mothers, fathers, children, family members, you know, that are out there
[20:07] in a difficult position themselves, just trying to do what's right, trying to keep
[20:10] everybody safe, you know, and their families are being affected too.
[20:15] So just asking that, you know, we remember that these are human beings, too, and everybody's affected.
[20:21] Thank you.
[20:23] Thank you, Kelly.
[20:28] Camille Doucette? Is that right?
[20:34] You said it right. Camille Doucette, then be New York.
[20:39] Also coming to talk about what happened in Hornbrook, on Hornbrook Road.
[20:46] My worry is accountability and escalation. I feel there's an imbalance and that's what we are reacting to.
[20:55] So my one question is, if the event started at 7 and as we know of Mr. Katie, the events that we know from him
[21:09] ended at four o'clock in the morning on Wednesday morning and then there was no
[21:15] response from him. So what in no response justified escalation?
[21:25] Thank you.
[21:33] Vani Dawson Roberts.
[21:44] Hi, my name is Vani Dawson Roberts. I was married to Dewey Dawson who
[21:49] was a Sheriff Sergeant at the Sheriff's Department when I married him. He retired
[21:53] from there and know he's a judge. He's a judge because his deputies one day went up to a gravel
[21:59] pit where he had a suicide attempt himself and they rescued him and brought him back in
[22:06] without the help of a SWAT team or many, many, many agencies like you guys called in at this time
[22:13] for this man who needed some help. And his family today is suffering because I believe
[22:20] If somebody made some bad calls, and there's a wife of an officer, I worried about my husband
[22:26] every time he walked out that door to go to work, but today I wouldn't want to be married
[22:32] to an officer because the way the police are today, they're out to earn their own salaries.
[22:39] They're out writing tickets.
[22:42] They're out harassing the public.
[22:44] They're not out protecting the public.
[22:46] I believe they're out harassing the public, and it's really sad.
[22:49] People back in Bob Howard's day had a totally different job than the police today, and I believe they don't get the public support because of the way they act and the jobs they do.
[22:59] If it went back to the way it was before, it would be much, much better.
[23:03] And I believe Mr. Katie lost his life because of nonsense, total nonsense.
[23:09] I'm here today with a box for the Katie family.
[23:12] I've already donated and go fund me and I'll continue to donate because I blame my husband
[23:17] too, the husband I have now because he fixes the 911 radials which allows you to keep calling
[23:23] in more and more and more people when you're at an incident where you need somebody with
[23:27] mental health to come in and help you out instead of more and more armored vehicles.
[23:32] Donating another $100 today into this box, I wish that all of you would reach into
[23:37] your pockets and donate some money, especially the people that were involved in this incident,
[23:43] the people that are making the overtime, the people that are sitting back thinking they're
[23:48] doing a great job at what they're doing when they're tearing families apart.
[23:53] Tompkins County seems to be really good at tearing families apart.
[23:57] They've torn my family apart, they've torn the Katie family apart, and somebody needs
[24:03] to start taking responsibility in all of this.
[24:06] Because people need to think about what they're doing, and they need to do more than think
[24:11] about the next paycheck, because it seems the people are not thinking about anything,
[24:17] but they're paychecks.
[24:18] Back when my husband, my ex-husband, Dewey Dawson, was a cop, he thought about what
[24:24] he was doing when he'd come home from work.
[24:26] There were many nights he didn't sleep, because what happened at work that day?
[24:30] And I believe he still thinks about what he does as a judge.
[24:35] And many people today, I don't think, think, or take responsibility for what they do in
[24:41] their jobs.
[24:42] And I'd like to pass this box around to everybody.
[24:45] And somehow we will get this to the Katie family, the sons.
[24:49] Here's a little boy who dressed up on October 31st of 2012 for Halloween, I bet, his name
[24:59] is Matthew.
[25:00] I bet many of your sons have never dressed up like you for Halloween.
[25:05] This little boy dressed up as his dad for Halloween, and there's a picture of him on
[25:09] the spot.
[25:10] This is all, all too sad, and it makes me cry.
[25:22] Thank you very much.
[25:23] Joannes Pollard, Dennis.
[25:47] Thank you for hearing me today.
[25:50] I'm a former corrections officer.
[25:52] I reside now in the town of Dryden.
[25:55] The first thing I'd like to do is extend my deepest condolences to the Katie family and
[26:04] to their neighbors and to this entire community for what we've been put through by witnessing
[26:11] yet another breach
[26:16] of peace by the people who we pay to protect and serve us.
[26:31] This takes place during work hours and it really should take place at a time when
[26:36] people do not have to take off work. My wife would like to be here. She has to work until
[26:41] five o'clock. I would like a bigger venue on a Saturday or an evening after 5 p.m. where
[26:48] people can come and voice their concerns about public safety and about what we have
[26:54] been going through for a very long time in Tompkins County.
[27:00] A lot of residents that I know do not support the purses of the tactical armored
[27:05] military-style vehicles used in this instance because people like Sheriff Lansing who also
[27:14] sell guns and military weaponry have the intention to use them against a civilian population in
[27:21] Topkins County as if we were some kind of terrorist or enemy combatants.
[27:27] To hear now that the widow Mrs. Katie recalls for the first encounter with police who
[27:33] came to her home was foul mouth and abusive, and threatened to take our children away.
[27:41] Perhaps that's why he didn't trust Mr. Lansing.
[27:46] It's outrageous form of threatening and intimidation that I will not expect being used at any
[27:56] time by police in this community from now on.
[28:02] I do not want to pay to be exposed to that kind of police officer.
[28:09] As you know, a year ago I came to this public safety meeting and addressed Mr. Lansing about
[28:16] his abusive police officers who have more than one complaint of written complaints
[28:24] of police brutality and using excessive force.
[28:27] We have already been sued last year, as it came out on the 25th of December.
[28:33] For excessive abuse by Mr. Morocco who still serves, he refused to get rid of him, and so did you.
[28:41] The language used by the sheriff's office is disturbing and has no merit.
[28:47] There is no evidence of any barricade that Mr. Katie was simply at home behind closed doors like anyone else.
[28:55] There's no evidence that I'm aware of that David Cady had an arsenal of weaponry, readying
[29:02] himself for a standoff with police, as Mr. Lansing described.
[29:08] There is no evidence that Mr. Cady shot at police, as he described.
[29:13] There's no evidence that Mr. Cady at any time had any intention of harming anyone,
[29:19] including his wife.
[29:23] There's no evidence that he allegedly fired at police in trending to harm them.
[29:30] Mr. Katie's long guns are not unusual in homes across the nation.
[29:36] He sells them.
[29:38] But now he's categorized as some loon having an arsenal of weaponry that needed to be
[29:45] taken out by a military-style force to destroy his life.
[29:49] How long did that man wait inside that house?
[29:53] Maybe he had a reaction.
[29:54] Karen, please wrap up.
[29:55] Maybe he...
[30:00] We had a reaction to the smoke bombs that were deployed, and he needed help. And you waited
[30:07] a day and a half to go in that house and destroy it. In the meantime, by tactical weaponry, I
[30:13] oppose as an officer. There are reasons why police officers are now being sought by people
[30:18] who are unstable and shooting honorable police officers and putting them at risk because
[30:24] of behavior like that. I want a full investigation by the Attorney General's
[30:30] Office into this matter and I have a letter that people can sign in support
[30:34] of that. Thank you.
[30:44] And last person I have on the blue paper is Melissa
[30:51] Cady.
[30:56] Hi. I'm Melissa Cady. I used to live at 127 Hornbrook Road to clarify.
[31:03] I didn't own it. There are more than just my family suffering right now for the loss of my home,
[31:12] let alone the loss of my husband. I just needed to say that.
[31:19] Hello, I'm Melissa Cady. I'm the wife of the deceased David Cady.
[31:24] Like I just said, I lived at 127 Hornbrook Road. I've lived there since March of 1999.
[31:31] I was 19 years old when I moved into that home.
[31:35] The only home my children have ever known.
[31:40] I don't hate the police at all.
[31:42] I don't.
[31:43] I question the leadership of the police during this operation.
[31:49] I don't know how or why or when it went as far as it went.
[31:53] I don't get it.
[31:55] I was supposed to read what I wrote here, but long story short, all the rumors
[32:01] of my husband and supposedly having an arsenal is crazy.
[32:06] Us driving to Pennsylvania for bullets is nuts.
[32:09] Okay, we're from PA.
[32:11] We moved here when we were kids
[32:13] because we thought it was a wonderful place to be.
[32:17] Bottom line, we drove to Pennsylvania to see family.
[32:22] We didn't go to buy bullets.
[32:23] They're cheaper at Walmart in Ithaca, okay?
[32:26] I mean, bottom line,
[32:28] my husband needed help. I told the police from the beginning that he was
[32:37] suicidal. He needed someone to help him. And all they did is bring in more and
[32:45] more and more police. I begged them, begged them to let me go in there. His
[32:52] His parents came from Pennsylvania, his sisters, everyone, and begged, stood there and begged
[32:59] them, and no one would let us anywhere near there.
[33:04] Bottom line, the last conversation and the police know it, 4.16 a.m. on Wednesday.
[33:12] By the time my house was completely destroyed, it was Friday.
[33:18] I've spoke with the coroner.
[33:20] My husband's body was frozen solid when it was received in Binghamton.
[33:30] Therefore, what you're saying about him walking around my house with a long gun strapped to
[33:37] his back on Thursday night is crap, period, because it is totally impossible.
[33:44] possible. They found his body at 8am on Friday. Do the math. Exactly how could he be anywhere
[33:54] Thursday evening. It's not possible. Somebody somewhere is covering up one heck of a mess.
[34:02] And all I ask of anyone in this community in America is to figure it out. Figure it
[34:09] out. I'm 34, okay? I am a widow. I have an 11-year-old and a 13-year-old son who loved
[34:18] their father to death. I would never stand here until any of you. He's perfect because
[34:24] he's not. My husband is nothing to perfect. Nowhere. Bottom line, he was an alcoholic
[34:31] with a problem. Period. It got out of control most definitely. Things were said in the
[34:39] beginning by the police that should not have been said. Bottom line, I don't hate any of
[34:46] you, none of you, including you. I don't hate you. I just don't understand. I need answers.
[34:54] And I'm not the only one in this community that needs answers. I mean, like I said,
[34:59] I have no husband. The people who own my house, you think there's an insurance company
[35:04] out there anywhere that covers something like this?
[35:10] Sure. Thank you for your time, and I'll
[35:14] see you at the next meeting.
[35:24] Hi, everyone. My name is Bill Coons. I live in Dambi, 1753 Dambi Road. As, like my opinion
[35:31] of the whole situation, it's a successful amount of force. They had to stand off a
[35:34] Wednesday or 10 days prior. They went in there through a flash bang and beanbagged
[35:40] them. They didn't throw 70 cans of tear gas and just struck the person's house.
[35:45] I was a prior military Osama Bin Laden the world's biggest terrorist in the world
[35:49] They did not get any balls down to go get them
[35:51] They didn't know what they were getting to when they busted through the house
[35:53] But for one guy is a failure to appear warrant
[35:57] some pity like bull shit and
[36:01] They had a call and everybody was at 16 agencies or I don't know what it was 150 cops
[36:07] Little overkill for the situation because it was waited and may try to make they wouldn't live as his lawyer
[36:12] up there and talk to them just like questions why you know and like the
[36:18] statements in the paper you can watch you look at officer chief Lansing's
[36:23] statements they counter-addict themselves numerous times and I'm not the
[36:28] only one who's picked up picked that up so thank you very much thank you
[36:35] anyone else you know in the audience who would like to come tell the
[36:52] I'm so sorry. I want to say that I don't understand why our Sheriff's Department can't serve a
[37:01] bench work in three months. David Cady was around. He was at the Dambi Town Ward meetings.
[37:09] He was trying to start a business on Dambi Road to repair cars. Is that right?
[37:19] Is that
[37:20] like treated like worse than Osama bin Laden.
[37:22] I understand it at all.
[37:23] Why all of a sudden does he have to be apprehended
[37:27] by the end of the year?
[37:28] Why couldn't they have just left
[37:30] or just had one or two cop cars there waiting
[37:33] until the situation was diffused?
[37:37] It is such overkill and we desperately need
[37:39] an investigation.
[37:41] We need public meetings.
[37:42] We need to find out exactly what happened.
[37:45] And I also would really, really want to know
[37:47] the time of death.
[37:48] I don't know why that wasn't disclosed, why that's a big secret.
[37:52] What is the time of death, Melissa?
[37:54] According to the death certificate, the time of death is Friday at 11 a.m.
[38:02] Does that even make sense to you, seeing how this standoff was over at night?
[38:07] And he was found unfrozen.
[38:10] Excuse me, could you continue on with your statement?
[38:14] As I've said at the beginning...
[38:15] I'm done.
[38:15] I want an investigation.
[38:16] We are not...
[38:18] room. Pardon? We are? We are not going to have a back and forth between members of the
[38:23] audience. Please make your choice. Okay, I understand. But are we going to have an investigation?
[38:28] What do we have to do to get an investigation? Well, I believe that's a discussion that
[38:34] we will have to have here. I hope you have it. Thank you.
[38:36] Thank you.
[38:44] Hello, my name is Dodd-Nate by Liv and Lansing. Included in this investigation,
[38:50] and I'm just going to go ahead and assume that we're going to have an investigation
[38:52] because the public is pretty much demanding an investigation or a review or something.
[38:57] I would like to see the financial costs.
[39:01] You know, when I think of that there was, I read that the, on average,
[39:06] there was 40 policemen there all the time and this lasted a couple of days
[39:10] and there was all this military equipment.
[39:12] I'd like to know what the dollar figure was attached to all this
[39:17] and who pays for that.
[39:18] And obviously, it's secondary to the fact that there was loss of life and family destroyed.
[39:25] But in this, you know, world that we live in, of very diminishing budgets for mental health,
[39:32] for social, I hope that in this investigation a breakdown in the dollars and how it was
[39:39] proportioned to the different, you know, for example, when the police come up from
[39:43] Pennsylvania, does Pennsylvania pay for that?
[39:45] Does the local sheriffs, you know,
[39:48] do they have to reimburse the police
[39:50] to come from other areas?
[39:52] If you do the math and you look at an average of 40 at a time
[39:55] over the course of days and heavy equipment,
[39:57] it gets up in the hundreds of thousands of dollars.
[40:00] So it has that financial information
[40:03] being included in the overall review,
[40:06] including all the procedural.
[40:08] And in chain of command, you know,
[40:09] who was the sheriff still?
[40:12] I mean, when state police come into the equation,
[40:14] Does the local sheriff still have jurisdiction?
[40:16] Does he still giving the orders?
[40:18] Who, where does the chain of command start once state police,
[40:23] and especially state police from different states,
[40:25] where does that chain of command, what happens to that?
[40:28] That's something I'd like to see included, thank you.
[40:32] Anyone else?
[40:37] My name is Catherine Hunter.
[40:39] I moved to Danby from Virginia in August of 2013.
[40:44] And I don't have a prepared statement,
[40:46] but I fully support the people here who are asking for a full investigation, both for the
[40:51] loss of this life and the wreckage of the family. And the cost is another issue, and
[40:58] it was done over a holiday weekend, a holiday time. There's a lot of questions that a lot
[41:04] of people are not prepared even to ask at this time, so we need more than just this
[41:09] one forum.
[41:15] Is there anyone else in the room who would want to speak?
[41:23] Okay, thank you very much for your comments and we will move on to the next portion of the meeting.
[41:32] I would invite the sheriff and the under sheriff to the desk and anyone they would like to bring with them.
[41:40] And I think you have a report and probably included in that report will be some of the
[41:48] things, some of the answers to some of the questions that you may have heard here this
[41:54] afternoon.
[41:55] So, wherever you want to go and have at it.
[42:04] Here's everything.
[42:07] What I'll do is ...
[42:14] One, two, three, four, five chairs.
[42:37] Two over there, one there.
[43:07] First of all, I would like to thank everybody that came here today to speak their mind and ask the questions that we knew that would probably be asked.
[43:16] What we're able to do today in this forum is give you the information that we have at this time.
[43:23] I'm not sure where some of the information came that some people were testifying to or
[43:29] not testifying to them, but stating that some of that information we have not received to
[43:33] the best of my knowledge as of today.
[43:35] But with that being said, this is not going to be a back and forth conversation as Mr.
[43:41] Dennis said, so we're going to give you an overlay of what happened during those
[43:48] three days.
[43:48] One of the things that I can say is that the whole operation was done by a bunch of people
[43:58] that have done these types of incidents before.
[44:03] Professionals that came, yes, from the state of New York and several other cities and
[44:08] villages within the confines of the state of New York.
[44:12] And also one agency that came from Pennsylvania, which was the Pennsylvania State Police.
[44:17] Well, that being said, when this incident went down, I was not on the scene at the time,
[44:25] so what I'm going to do is allow the incident commander, Sergeant Jake Young from the Ithaca
[44:32] Police Department, who was in charge of our SWAT team here in Tompkins County, go over
[44:37] his paperwork that he has from the days that he was in charge during the night shift.
[44:44] So at this time, I'd like to ask Sergeant Jake Young to proceed.
[44:49] Thank you, sir.
[44:50] Like you said, I'm Jake Young.
[44:52] We have a joint jurisdictional tactical services or SWAT team for the county.
[44:57] time encompasses.
[45:00] As well as topics kind of sheriff's deputies. We also have in conjunction with that, if you're
[45:05] not familiar, we have a SINT team, which is a negotiator team, which is a also a collaboration
[45:11] of different agencies throughout the county. And Mike Gray was the investigator Gray who
[45:17] sent over here was the incident commander for the negotiators on that night. And he may
[45:22] speak to him more, but the negotiations team also includes members from all over
[45:27] the county including mental health, our department and several other agencies within the county.
[45:35] I'll give a, I guess I'll give kind of a rundown.
[45:39] I've listened to the 911 tapes, the original call.
[45:42] I was not on the original call or the original attempt to serve the warrant.
[45:46] However, I have listened to all the 911 tapes, live time and real time, three separate
[45:52] times since I went to do my after action report on this incident.
[45:56] So I'll just give you the rundown and the initial information is right off the 9-1-1
[46:03] tapes until I got there.
[46:06] It's about 1946 on the 30th, two sheriff's deputies attempted to serve a felony county
[46:11] court warrant at the 127 Hornbrook Road in Dambi.
[46:16] They were attempting to serve David Cady.
[46:20] Short time later, deputies were able to hear Mr. Cady inside the residence.
[46:24] They heard his voice.
[46:27] Short time later, they were able to see him inside the residence.
[46:31] They made contact at the residence, I believe, at the rear door and ended up speaking with
[46:39] a female.
[46:41] I'm not going to use names, I'm just going to be generic on the timeline here.
[46:45] Deputies advised that, or the female stated that he wasn't there.
[46:49] The deputies advised the female that they heard him talking and he needs to come
[46:53] out, so they can serve the warrant. The female went back inside. At 20-04, which would be
[47:01] 804, a deputy confirms that there's also two teenage males inside.
[47:08] Meanwhile, the other
[47:09] deputy that's on scene is, again, speaking with the female. The female advised that
[47:14] deputy that she was going to contact the attorney, an attorney.
[47:23] A short time later,
[47:24] Here about 2018, according to the nine-on-one tapes, the female returns from inside the
[47:29] residence to, again, speak with the deputy who is waiting at the back door.
[47:36] Female goes back inside the residence while the deputies wait on the outside.
[47:43] A deputy, the second deputy that's on the front side of the location, states that
[47:48] he can see people going up and down the stairs in the house.
[47:55] The separate deputy requests some additional officers respond to the scene to assist.
[48:02] The 20-24 hours the female came back outside and advised the deputy on the rear of the
[48:07] house that Katie has a gun and that it's loaded.
[48:12] That same deputy attempts to talk the female and the teenagers out of the house, however
[48:17] the female goes back in the house and the teenagers remain in the house.
[48:22] That deputy then advises all units, because now there's a couple other backup units that
[48:27] are arriving, that the priority at that point is to get the teenagers and the female out
[48:33] of the house safely.
[48:36] Based on the fact that the deputy was advised there was a gun and the circumstances that
[48:41] unfolding. He requests the availability of the SWAT team and activating them with the SINT team
[48:48] for some negotiations and to attempt to resolve the situation.
[48:56] At 2027, the suspect's screams don't come in or there's going to be problems
[49:01] per the deputy on the front of the house. He's able to hear him yelling that.
[49:06] Meanwhile, notifications are being made for the SWAT and SINT activation.
[49:11] There's now several patrol officers on scene, a combination of state police, sheriff's
[49:18] deputies.
[49:22] The deputy on the rear updates that there is a female inside and two teenagers, 11
[49:28] and 13, that are reluctant to come out.
[49:31] I was notified at 20, 33 hours of the incident via cell phone call.
[49:37] The deputy on the front advises that he can hear Mr. Katie near the front of the
[49:41] home. Emergency medical is put on standby at Dambi Fire. The SWAT and SIN team is then
[49:50] activated at 2047 hours. At 2051, the female comes out of the rear of the residence, per
[49:58] the deputy on that side. Two minutes later, the deputy on the front puts over the air
[50:04] that the suspect possibly has a 30-30 long gun. And I'm not a big gun guy myself, but
[50:11] And for those of you who aren't familiar with the 30-30 long gun, it's a rifle that has
[50:16] a range of about 200 yards, and that round will penetrate any body armor that an officer
[50:23] wears.
[50:23] So like the vest I have on would be no protection against a round like that.
[50:30] 2054, the deputy confirms to all the units that are on the scene that make sure that
[50:35] they heard that he may have a long gun.
[50:41] 2058, a female friend shows up on the scene and deputies start to interview her to get some information.
[50:50] 2101, one of the deputies on the front of the location is able to make phone contact with Mr. Katie.
[50:57] Short conversation ensues and Mr. Katie states he wants to talk with the sheriff and hangs up.
[51:05] 2108, the deputies tell Katie if he comes out peacefully that the female and the teenagers
[51:13] were able to stay at the location and that the kid's safety is the most important priority.
[51:20] 2115, the deputy reports it appears that the teenagers and the female are going to come out
[51:26] and he came up with a plan to not let them back into the building if they do come out and
[51:31] that would be simply for their safety.
[51:35] At 2121, per the deputy on the front of the house, the
[51:41] Mr. Katie yells, if they want to play games, I'll take care of it, shut off all the lights.
[51:48] Within that minute, lights start going off in the residence, 21-21, so within that same
[51:54] minute, the female and the children come out of the location and they're taken by
[52:02] a sheriff's deputy away from the house.
[52:09] Meanwhile, like I had already noted, the SWAT activation is in progress.
[52:15] The mobile command is being moved to the scene.
[52:21] And just a note at this point in time, the weather is about 15 degrees Fahrenheit with
[52:27] about a six degree wind show factor.
[52:29] So as you know, standing outside in those conditions, especially if you're not fully
[52:36] prepared to do that is very cold.
[52:38] So, we have some officers who have been on scene near two hours now and have been out in those conditions.
[52:47] When I got on scene, the first thing I did was account for all of the officers that were on scene
[52:53] to try to figure out exactly who was at the location and make sure that we accounted for everybody.
[53:00] At 21-25, the sergeant from the Sheriff's Department puts out intel per the female.
[53:10] believes that there's five long guns in the house, a shotgun 30-30 and a 22. Also
[53:18] re-advises that Katie is the only subject in the house at this point. At that
[53:24] point I came over there and reminded all units that that we were going to just
[53:29] slow down and treat this as a barricaded incident. Excuse me you need to back
[53:33] Is that what it is?
[53:34] Is that what it is?
[53:35] About three inches.
[53:36] Sorry about that.
[53:37] I was wondering if it works a little better.
[53:38] Is that better?
[53:44] As we've learned from lessons in the past, including why our SENT and SWAT team was formed
[53:52] back in 1996 when investigator Padula was stabbed in the neck on a similar armed barricade
[53:58] incident, time is on our side at least at the get-go and there's no need for
[54:05] anybody to rush in at that moment so I wanted to make sure that nobody was
[54:10] rushing inside and we could slow it down and continue to have some dialogue with
[54:13] when Mr. Katie. What time was that? This was 21-28 is when I came on the air to
[54:20] advise everybody that at this point everybody is out of the house except
[54:24] for Mr. Katie.
[54:28] At 21-30 the first train negotiator
[54:33] An investigator arrives on scene, Investigator Gray, who ultimately ended up running the negotiation
[54:37] team that night.
[54:42] Investigator Gray makes contact with Mr. Katie, initially right within that first five minutes.
[54:50] 2144, the first relief members are arriving on scene, some SWAT operators are arriving
[54:58] and preparing to relieve some of the officers who have now been out in the cold for
[55:03] several hours. We have a mutual aid agreement with Elmira City so if we
[55:10] have an incident where there's going to be an extended incident or in this case
[55:15] the severe cold and we know that you know people can only stand outside for a
[55:20] couple hours without getting signs of hypothermia we place the call to them to
[55:25] let them know if this carries on into the night that we're definitely going
[55:29] to need some relief help. And that's, you know, one of the reasons why at times there
[55:34] was 30 or 40 people on scene. People can simply only stand outside for so long before they
[55:41] just simply need to warm up.
[55:46] During all of this, 2213, the SIN team is now activating. There's negotiators coming in.
[55:54] They're continuing to make contact with Mr. Katie. Having some success, he is talking to them.
[56:00] The
[56:06] 2253, most of the officers on the perimeter have been relieved by SWAT team members.
[56:17] There's a request to put out some light because the residents, it's a rural setting.
[56:22] It's hard to see at night and there's a request to get some light onto the house so that folks
[56:27] on the perimeter could actually see what's going on.
[56:29] I
[56:33] asked two deputies who were on our SWAT team to take a state police car and move it into
[56:42] a position where they could put the spotlights on the residents and then I asked them to return
[56:47] from that position and leave the car in place to put light up.
[56:52] This now, it's 2317 or 1117 p.m.
[56:58] The two deputies deployed the car.
[57:02] A short time after the spotlights were turned on, one shot was fired out of side two of
[57:09] the residents, which if you're looking at the front would be the left side of the residents.
[57:13] The round hit near the New York State Police Tahoe that was deployed.
[57:18] In fact, one of the deputies moved back to a tree as soon as he turned around.
[57:23] The shot rang out and he saw snow coming up near the front of the Tahoe, which was about 20 feet from where he stood.
[57:33] 2319, after that was called out, the shot was also called out by several other units that were on the perimeter.
[57:39] One unit observed a muzzle flash in the front upstairs bedroom.
[57:46] I did a status check and the two deputies that were near the round when it went off stated that they were okay.
[57:56] 2320 the negotiators around the phone with him right after that he advises
[58:02] if someone doesn't and this is mr. Katie advises if someone doesn't turn up turn
[58:07] lights off someone will get hurt reports are that Katie is highly
[58:12] agitated and states that he states to the negotiators that he could have
[58:16] shot someone
[58:22] 2345 Almyra the Almyra SWAT team was notified for relief and
[58:29] And they were en route to help us relieve some of the officers that were in the cold.
[58:38] Let me interrupt for one moment.
[58:40] At this point right now, how long has it been going on?
[58:43] So we're right at midnight now and it started at 7.46 was the initial response.
[58:52] So...
[58:52] About five hours.
[58:53] Well, four and a quarter hours, yeah.
[58:55] Thank you.
[58:56] Yes, sir.
[59:00] At this point, so we have several things going on now.
[59:03] we have severe cold. We have people that are standing out in the severe cold and we're talking
[59:09] if you live out in the country off of a windy field with a six-degree wind chill. So that is a
[59:15] serious concern. How long can people stand outside without being being injured? And as well we have
[59:22] a person inside the residence that has shot out of the residence near us and so we're concerned
[59:29] for our safety and as well for the cold weather. So we started requesting some
[59:33] additional resources being armor personnel carriers that we don't have
[59:38] any of within the county, but some of our contacts mutually outside the county
[59:44] have specifically Onondaga County, Syracuse City and Broome County. Calls
[59:50] were made out to them to see if we could get some of those resources
[59:54] is brought in for protection from both the cold and from...
[1:00:02] Quincidentally, all the agencies were able to assist us.
[1:00:05] Onondaga County advised that their APC, I'll refer to it as, but armor personnel carrier,
[1:00:11] was en route with two operators.
[1:00:18] In the meantime, it's now 1.03, 0103 in the morning, now the 31st.
[1:00:25] SENT negotiators continue to make dialogue on and off, on and off.
[1:00:31] And I'm not going to go into exactly what was said, but that's going on.
[1:00:36] Meanwhile, we now have people still out on the perimeter that are getting quite cold.
[1:00:42] It's now 10 degrees with a one-degree wind chill.
[1:00:48] At 120, the information from the negotiators, Katie stated if his wife's not released
[1:00:55] to be with the kids, he will escalate the situation.
[1:00:59] 0148, another sent update. Negotiators have now been on and off the phone with Katie 14
[1:01:06] times since the beginning of the call. During the periods that they were not speaking with
[1:01:11] him, they were attempting to reach him a total of 44 times.
[1:01:17] At about 2-0-2 in the
[1:01:18] morning on the 31st, the first APC arrives at Danby Fire Department and very shortly
[1:01:25] there after a second one arrives so we're now able to start replacing the
[1:01:29] officers that are standing out there in the cold and exposed and putting them
[1:01:35] inside of the APC so they're able to warm up yet still be able to safely
[1:01:41] maintain a perimeter on the location.
[1:01:47] Negotiations continue through the night
[1:01:50] through that that 31st early morning or night.
[1:01:58] Several times Mr. Katie stated
[1:02:00] that he was going to come out. Unfortunately, he never did come out.
[1:02:13] As alluded to, the last
[1:02:14] contact was with a negotiator was around 4.15 in the morning. And the last update we got
[1:02:26] was that he advised that he's armed up and come get him. And this info was passed along
[1:02:32] from the negotiators and then put out to the the officers that were on.
[1:02:43] At this point in time
[1:02:44] the state police were en route and some had arrived on the scene, some came this far away as Albany.
[1:02:53] If I could ask Lieutenant Keiser from the barracks here in Troop C to explain a little bit of how
[1:03:00] that work from we asked for the state police to...
[1:03:03] Man, we're up here again.
[1:03:05] Eight hours, you're roughly eight hours in, right?
[1:03:08] And who from Tompkins County is now in charge at that point?
[1:03:13] The incident commander was kind of switched between the sheriff and the under sheriff.
[1:03:19] I was in charge of tactical command, meaning the deployment of the actual officers.
[1:03:25] Investigator Gray was in charge of the negotiating team.
[1:03:27] And then the incident commander was either the sheriff or the under-sheriff depending on these two gentlemen. Correct. Okay
[1:03:36] One quick question. Yeah, does that mean that that Ken and Brian that were there and
[1:03:42] Turns or what was the first time the scene that I believe was
[1:03:48] Derek Osborn and then under sheriff
[1:03:52] Robinson came in after that. I we did not
[1:03:55] know about the incident
[1:03:58] until approximately 6 a.m. that morning they attempted to get all of me and it
[1:04:03] did not go through my cell phone and I didn't get it until I was on my way out
[1:04:06] in the morning so.
[1:04:10] So Brian or Derek was there? Right. Yes. Please go ahead sir.
[1:04:19] Yeah again my name is Lieutenant Todd Keister of the New York State Police
[1:04:22] from the local Ithaca barracks here. Our involvement began other than the
[1:04:28] initial two troopers that came, I believe it was two, to assist the deputies at the outset
[1:04:33] of the incident.
[1:04:34] I was notified around midnight that state police assets had been requested, specifically our
[1:04:42] SWAT team, which is referred to as a SWAT team, and I made the requisite telephone
[1:04:48] calls to Albany to activate those individuals.
[1:04:51] And the way that works is that our team comes in and assists the sheriff's office.
[1:04:56] as it remains their case.
[1:04:58] They remain in charge.
[1:05:00] It's just simply us offering our resources to them.
[1:05:05] Needless to say, it takes quite a bit of time
[1:05:07] to assemble a team at that time of night
[1:05:09] from all over the state.
[1:05:12] So a few individuals showed up, a team leader,
[1:05:15] and he began immediately to work with Sergeant Young
[1:05:19] and some of the other tactical operators there,
[1:05:22] just simply to assist over the course
[1:05:24] of the very early morning hours.
[1:05:30] Eventually, we did get an entire sort team in place.
[1:05:35] They brought down bullet-resistant vehicles.
[1:05:39] They referred to as Bearcats.
[1:05:41] And this simply allows the operators to be in a position
[1:05:45] where they can observe the residents be protected
[1:05:47] from gunfire and also protected from the elements.
[1:05:52] And I don't know if you wanted to continue
[1:05:53] with the timeline at this point, or?
[1:05:55] Thank you.
[1:05:59] I think we left off at the last contact at also just backing up a little bit at a little
[1:06:11] after four in the morning, the under-share for Robinson who was on scene notified the
[1:06:17] local DA regarding the incident to bring her up to speed.
[1:06:21] At
[1:06:25] just before six o'clock, a plan was put into place to put gas into the residence in
[1:06:34] an attempt to get Mr. Katie to come out.
[1:06:39] The gas that was used was CS and OC,
[1:06:43] both irritants.
[1:06:46] Some people can deal with them better than others.
[1:06:49] Most people are irritated by them and it makes them very uncomfortable.
[1:06:52] and most people aren't able to stay in an environment that has those.
[1:07:00] So a systematic gas deployment was made attempting to get into all areas of the house,
[1:07:09] and not going to get into too many specifics, but generically speaking,
[1:07:14] the gas is deployed through windows, so it would require the breaking of glass
[1:07:19] And essentially, the gas round hits the ceiling of a room, and then the gas that's inside
[1:07:29] of that would disperse into the room.
[1:07:32] Usually, within each round, there's a couple grams of active irritant.
[1:07:37] One thing that we learned later on regarding this residence is it had a large amount
[1:07:43] of dropped ceilings within the residence.
[1:07:45] So we had no idea of this, and had we known about it, it would probably explain a little
[1:07:53] bit better why we likely didn't get the proper reaction from the gases.
[1:07:57] The drop ceilings will actually catch the gas from dispersing into the room, because
[1:08:02] like I said, they're shot at an upward angle into the ceiling.
[1:08:06] Usually they disperse into the room, but meanwhile a lot of that gas was captured
[1:08:10] by those drop ceilings.
[1:08:11] again that that was something that we learned after after what time was this
[1:08:17] this is about 6 a.m. on the 31st the we were able to so we had no reaction from
[1:08:28] the gas deployment at about 744 a.m. on the 31st we were able to figure out a
[1:08:38] way to get the back door open without actually, we didn't want to just send somebody out to
[1:08:45] hit the door open for the obvious reason that like I said our protection doesn't cover us
[1:08:52] from a rifle round.
[1:08:54] We were able to get that door open using a piece of equipment that goes on one of the
[1:08:58] APCs.
[1:08:59] We were able to knock that back door open so that we could deploy some robots into
[1:09:05] the location.
[1:09:10] We sent in initially the first robot, which I won't get into specifics, but we were only
[1:09:17] able to look at a portion of the downstairs before that robot was out of service.
[1:09:21] And we were then sent in a second robot that had similar problems.
[1:09:27] We were able to look at a portion of the downstairs.
[1:09:30] We were never able to unfortunately look upstairs in the residence at that point.
[1:09:36] At this point, it's now 9 in the morning approximately, most of the people, most of the officers on
[1:09:46] scene had been there for the majority of the night, so we started making plans to get relief
[1:09:52] and that plan was to turn over the incident to New York State Police.
[1:09:59] their sort team they were now activated and were arriving on scene.
[1:10:06] Had
[1:10:07] approximately 10 in the morning on the 31st. The tactical operation was turned
[1:10:12] over to New York State Police sort. Sheriff Lansing was now on scene as the
[1:10:17] incident commander and he remained for the day while New York State Police
[1:10:22] sort continued the operation in hopes of getting Mr. Katie out. Let me
[1:10:27] at any point during that first 8 to 12 hours, did you know who owned the house or did you
[1:10:38] assume that Katie's owned the house?
[1:10:41] I'm not sure when that intel came.
[1:10:44] I know at some point we knew that it was a rental because I know we spoke with, during
[1:10:50] the incident at some point we spoke with the owner about it.
[1:10:53] But I'm not sure that's good or great if you can test if we knew right that early morning.
[1:10:59] I'm not sure point during the 31st.
[1:11:01] We did learn who the property owner was and I was familiar with the area and familiar
[1:11:07] with the attached business to the property or business that used to be attached to the
[1:11:11] property was familiar with those owners and assumed that they own the house.
[1:11:15] We were able to verify that through the online service available through the county
[1:11:21] and through other resources, and we could eventually make contact with that gentleman, or with at least one of the owners.
[1:11:31] Can I ask where was Melissa Cady at this point?
[1:11:35] I can speak to that if you'd like.
[1:11:37] Yeah, I'm not positive, so go ahead.
[1:11:38] At some point throughout the night, we were having conversation and trying to get information from Mrs. Cady.
[1:11:44] She was very helpful to us.
[1:11:46] Wait, wait, wait. You're not in your mind.
[1:11:47] We all had the same concern, and that was getting her husband out on harm.
[1:11:51] And she was very helpful to us, providing us with information that we could use, gave
[1:11:58] us some ideas as to how we might appeal to his sense of doing the right thing.
[1:12:05] She was at one point sitting in a police vehicle with initially some members of the State
[1:12:12] Police, and I eventually placed a member of our negotiating team with her to be
[1:12:19] liaison basically between her and us and even beyond that she ended up later in the morning
[1:12:27] ended up at a friend's residence about a mile, a mile and a half away as the girl flies
[1:12:33] and we had law enforcement representation with her the whole time to see if, you know,
[1:12:41] from being with her and discussing things with her if there was anything more we could
[1:12:45] determine that might help us find the right hook, if you will, to convince Mr.
[1:12:51] Cady to come out. And that's – she was accompanied probably longer than she
[1:12:59] wanted to be into the day on Wednesday, and at one point it would determine that,
[1:13:03] you know, we would stay in communication with her the best way we could.
[1:13:14] I arrived probably about 6 a.m. on the 31st and was briefed by the people in charge at
[1:13:23] the time and by the undersher.
[1:13:27] I then took up position in the command bus with the state police, the captain from the
[1:13:33] state police and the sergeant along with many other people on the sent team and various
[1:13:40] aspects.
[1:13:41] The DA was there at the time when I arrived on the scene so that we were able to all confer
[1:13:47] on what had taken place and what our next steps might be.
[1:13:51] During the rep to the day, the state police took up position and relieved our local SWAT
[1:13:58] people and were able to attempt their negotiations with Mr. Katie during that time but never
[1:14:06] did.
[1:14:07] They tried various methods besides phones and megaphones, but never did he respond to
[1:14:14] any of their requests or phone calls.
[1:14:19] That went on for most of the day.
[1:14:21] It was very quiet inside that residence from approximately, I think, 4.30 to roughly
[1:14:27] 5.00 p.m. that afternoon.
[1:14:29] We did not have any contact with him.
[1:14:31] At one point in time, on that day, I was approached by the commanders from the state police and
[1:14:38] they had said that they thought maybe they would like to take and enter the residence.
[1:14:45] At that point in time, after taking all the information I had available to myself,
[1:14:49] I didn't feel
[1:15:00] Still comfortable with that. I conferred with people on the scene and I decided that we would
[1:15:06] not attempt to enter that resident's said day. As I put it, time was on our side and I did
[1:15:13] not want to risk anybody's life nor did I want to push Mr. Katie into doing something that
[1:15:20] might interfere with us successfully getting this done.
[1:15:23] So with that being said, we were then shortly relieved again, I think it was a little after
[1:15:30] five o'clock, again by the Ithaca and Tompkins squad team.
[1:15:35] At this time, I think that I'd like to ask the DA if she'd like to make some comments
[1:15:39] on her first day there to verify some of the processes that we went through during
[1:15:47] that time.
[1:15:54] I got a call from the undershare if I believe it about quarter to six on, what was it, Thursday
[1:16:02] morning?
[1:16:03] Yeah, Wednesday.
[1:16:05] Wednesday morning.
[1:16:06] I got up, went to the scene, arrived at the scene I think at about quarter to six.
[1:16:12] I was immediately briefed as to the facts that have been recounted by Sergeant Young and
[1:16:22] had opportunity to speak to Investigator Gray regarding the attempts to negotiate with Mr.
[1:16:30] Cady.
[1:16:30] At that time, under Sheriff Robinson and I talked about what I call organizing principles.
[1:16:41] I'm not a cop.
[1:16:43] I was there to lend whatever aid might be needed with respect to legal questions that might arise.
[1:16:50] If we got into a situation where there was a question about a warrant or something else that fell under the criminal law, that was to be my part.
[1:16:57] But I do want to recount that from the beginning of my involvement with this, the organizing
[1:17:05] principle was to get Mr. Cady to come out of that house.
[1:17:10] After Mr. Cady had discharged the rifle,
[1:17:16] it was not, in my opinion, having been at a
[1:17:27] going to result in storming the House in an effort to get him out because that would mean
[1:17:33] somebody would die. And that was never an acceptable outcome. In fact, the huge outpouring
[1:17:44] of resources, and nobody denies that they were huge, was done for one reason and one
[1:17:49] reason only, and that was to maximize the chance that Mr. Cady would come out
[1:17:54] of this alive and that police personnel would not be injured.
[1:18:00] Throughout the time that I was at the scene and throughout the briefings and conversations
[1:18:05] that I was engaged in, none of the leadership at the scene lost sight of this goal, and
[1:18:10] nor did they ever abandon it, even when it would have been cheaper and quicker to
[1:18:17] storm the house and likely kill Mr. Katie.
[1:18:34] I don't know that there's much more I can offer at this point other than to say I remained
[1:18:43] at the scene through Thursday evening and provided whatever legal advice I could.
[1:18:53] And I would say from an objective standpoint that it was pretty clear that the priority
[1:18:58] of the Policeness Operation was to keep Mr. Katie alive.
[1:19:02] Thank you.
[1:19:03] Thank you.
[1:19:03] Do you may ask a question?
[1:19:06] Sure.
[1:19:06] Go ahead, Peter.
[1:19:08] Gwen, I don't understand the comment you made that if you stormed the house, it would
[1:19:14] end up with Mr. Katie being dead.
[1:19:16] I mean that's the the assumption you're making is that he would fire at the people who were
[1:19:21] storming it but that may be wrong right well the last communication that we had with Mr.
[1:19:27] Katie was him saying to the negotiator I'm coming I'm arming come get me okay thank
[1:19:35] you the
[1:19:49] defendant goes to use deadly force man not the police as we stated we are
[1:19:57] not going to go on a debate here. We are here to give you the information.
[1:20:02] Uh, excuse me. Please, please, please, please. It's not going to work if we're shouting at
[1:20:09] one another, all right? Please listen. Please listen.
[1:20:15] Go ahead and please use the microphone, okay?
[1:20:18] Yeah, except I'm done.
[1:20:20] Oh, all right. Thank you.
[1:20:22] Thank you.
[1:20:23] We'll go on with the timeline now.
[1:20:26] Okay, the next carrying on with the timeline, I know one of the questions that was asked,
[1:20:35] one of the questions that came up was why there was so many resources there and just
[1:20:42] to speak to that a little bit because that wasn't really answered in the news, in the
[1:20:46] media coverage probably because they weren't certain on it.
[1:20:49] All the agencies that were listed didn't necessarily mean that those agencies were
[1:20:53] there.
[1:20:53] For example, Kyuga County was listed, they never sent any personnel, however they did provide us with an additional robot to try to use.
[1:21:02] Same with Binghamton City, they sent us some equipment.
[1:21:06] So a lot of the agencies that were listed offered us gear and sent us equipment, some of which we were able to use and some of which we weren't.
[1:21:15] But generically speaking, that's why that list grew so long.
[1:21:19] it wasn't that each of those agencies sent a SWAT team or sent a large cadre of officers.
[1:21:27] So I just wanted to put that out there because that's been a little bit unclear.
[1:21:31] I arrived back at the scene at about five o'clock on the 31st,
[1:21:37] still cold, 19 degrees, eight degree wind chill at that point.
[1:21:42] We were planning to take back over the replace the sort tactical officers at six o'clock I arrived a little bit early to get briefed and find out kind of what was going on because I had been home to sleep.
[1:21:59] I got in at five o'clock spoke with the sort commander at 1718 sort was still out there and they reported.
[1:22:06] They started calling in that they could see Mr. Katie walking around the
[1:22:10] residence on level one which would be the ground the first floor. A minute
[1:22:18] later one of the SOAR teams reported in that Mr. Katie had a long gun in his
[1:22:24] hands. About 10 minutes later they observed him walking near side four
[1:22:30] which if you're looking at the house would be the right side of the
[1:22:37] 1747 back near the rear right corner, or as we would call the 3-4 corner, was the last
[1:22:43] place that they saw him.
[1:22:45] Okay, that was 547 on December 31st?
[1:22:50] That's correct.
[1:22:53] In the meantime, negotiators are still trying to call him with no success, the, oh, we
[1:23:01] would call it loud hailing, so the PA systems on the Bearcats were used to try to tell
[1:23:08] him to come out of the residence but that did not work at that point. At about
[1:23:15] six o'clock still the 31st the the IPD SWAT team was back on scene and we were
[1:23:24] heading out to replace the SOAR operators.
[1:23:30] Into that next evening we talked
[1:23:33] about now knowing that he was he was still alive obviously and up moving
[1:23:39] going around. We really wanted to try to come up with some things to make him come out of
[1:23:45] the house. We knew that the gas deployment was unsuccessful on the first day. So we worked
[1:23:52] on coming up with a strategy to put gas into the house again. Obviously at this point still
[1:23:59] we didn't know that they had the drop ceilings that I spoke about that I think were working
[1:24:04] against us. And we also didn't have really good access to the right side of the house due to a
[1:24:10] hill and some trees that were over there.
[1:24:16] At about 743, Syracuse police lent us a throw phone device,
[1:24:22] which we were able to put into the residence. We weren't sure the status of his cell phone,
[1:24:27] so we wanted to create another opportunity for him to be able to make contact with us.
[1:24:32] So at about 7.43, that was deployed into the first floor near the area that we last saw him.
[1:24:46] Again, continual attempts by the SIN team to reach Mr. Katie via the throw phone,
[1:24:53] the cell phone and the landline that we had at the house.
[1:24:58] Under Sheriff Robinson then took back over as the incident commander from the sheriff.
[1:25:04] The,
[1:25:08] like I spoke of, a gas plan was set back up, same types of gas, and that plan was put
[1:25:18] into place at about 21-11 on the 31st.
[1:25:25] We tried to get gas into some of the areas that we felt that maybe we missed on the
[1:25:30] initial day, because if you've never been exposed to gas, if you can move to an area
[1:25:36] that is not contaminated or that has good ventilation then you're able to breathe pretty freely
[1:25:42] especially if you're not a person that's that bothered by it.
[1:25:48] So we worked on systematically getting gas into all the locations in an attempt to make
[1:25:54] him uncomfortable and then come out of the residence.
[1:25:57] At about 2221,
[1:26:02] we were able to, and via the throw phone, which has an audio listening
[1:26:06] device, we were able to hear Mr. Katie moving around, no
[1:26:14] contact with them though, just hear
[1:26:16] some movement, some walking around.
[1:26:22] The SENT who monitors the throw phone also reported that they could hear Mr. Katie
[1:26:26] coughing.
[1:26:27] But again, we don't know exactly where he's at, and the sound is unknown at that point.
[1:26:35] It's just coming from the telephone.
[1:26:36] I'm sorry, when did you deploy the gas?
[1:26:39] We started at 2111 and at 2113 they heard him coughing on the audio.
[1:26:48] Thank you.
[1:26:49] 2221, they could hear him moving around, but again, you're not able to determine the location.
[1:26:54] We weren't able to see anything from the outside.
[1:26:56] It's dark in the residence. It's dark outside.
[1:26:59] So that's working against us.
[1:27:03] The next plan on top of the gas was...
[1:27:09] And actually, I should back up a little bit just to make it known.
[1:27:13] The state police, on their first day that the sheriff didn't mention,
[1:27:17] they also put in two robots into the location.
[1:27:20] And for various reasons, they were never able to get to the second floor.
[1:27:25] So, you know, we have all this technology and sometimes it just, you know, works against us
[1:27:30] and doesn't do what we think it's going to do when we buy it.
[1:27:34] So at this point, there's five or six robots in the place,
[1:27:39] essentially dead where they lie of no use to us.
[1:27:43] So back to the 31st at about 1045,
[1:27:46] We started discussing possibly turning the power off.
[1:27:50] It was a little bit of a tricky situation
[1:27:54] because we didn't want to shut the power down to the road due to the cold weather.
[1:27:58] We didn't want to put other families at risk.
[1:28:00] So the only option was to kill the power locally,
[1:28:05] which required us to be in a compromising situation
[1:28:08] without going into tactics and exactly what we did.
[1:28:11] We got the resources that we needed on scene to cut the power safely without putting anyone in harm's way.
[1:28:19] A team was set out and the electric to the location was shut down at about 11-11 p.m. on the 31st.
[1:28:27] And the idea again is to, in hopes of making it uncomfortable to stay in there and getting Mr. Katie to come out.
[1:28:38] 11-11, isn't that 11 in the morning?
[1:28:41] You mean 22-11?
[1:28:44] 23-11, yep, so that would be on the 31st.
[1:28:49] So we're just about to flip into January 1st here.
[1:28:57] The throw phone communications
[1:29:00] and attempt to make contact with him throughout that evening
[1:29:05] was unsuccessful.
[1:29:11] We thought maybe he had went down into the basement,
[1:29:14] So we sent a robot that we borrowed from another local county into the basement to look around.
[1:29:23] We weren't able to see much and, of course, that robot got stuck, as did the other ones.
[1:29:31] At 7.52, so now we're on to January 1st, 0752.
[1:29:38] whoever was monitoring the throw phone reported hearing coughing and someone clearing their
[1:29:47] throat in the location.
[1:29:51] At 8-12 on the 1st, the sort arrives back on scene and it takes over.
[1:30:00] Our concern was that we had confirmation now that Mr. Cady was still up, still moving around,
[1:30:10] and we weren't comfortable putting humans inside the location and potentially, like the DA said,
[1:30:20] being forced into a situation where we get a gun pointed at us, whether or not
[1:30:25] unknowing of his intentions and us having to get into a gunfight inside the location. So,
[1:30:30] So we continued to brainstorm on all possible ideas to work from the outside and save conditions
[1:30:37] in hopes of getting Mr. Katie to come out unharmed.
[1:30:42] State police sort commander was on the same page and agreed and if you recall the incident
[1:30:49] in Herkimer a few years back, similar conditions and extended barricade and they did make
[1:30:57] entry and the subject was lying in wait, if you will, and they got to shoot out the FBI
[1:31:05] dog was killed and so on and so forth.
[1:31:07] So we continued to search for methods to resolve it peacefully and safely for everybody from
[1:31:15] the outside.
[1:31:15] So on the 1st at 8.12 in the morning, the State Police sort took back over and I'll
[1:31:23] turn it over to the sheriff because I went home.
[1:31:25] Thank you.
[1:31:28] As Sergeant Young stated, we had the availability of people from the state police that had been
[1:31:37] involved with similar situations, as the one in Herkimer.
[1:31:40] Also the captain on scene from the state police helped extensively with the Pennsylvania
[1:31:47] state police during their manhunt for a murderer in Pennsylvania.
[1:31:53] This is where they had the connections to afford us the ability to use a new armored
[1:32:00] vehicle called the Rook.
[1:32:02] And he was able to contact their commander, the major, and he was more than glad to be
[1:32:09] willing to bring his equipment to our scene to help us to try to once again get the suspect
[1:32:18] out of the house without anyone being put in harm way.
[1:32:23] We did not want to allow our officers to be as Sergeant Young said targets, so we kept
[1:32:29] them in armored vehicles the whole time.
[1:32:32] This apparatus is also an armored vehicle that was specifically made for these type
[1:32:37] of confrontations.
[1:32:38] When they arrived later that afternoon on the 1st, I spoke with a major and one of
[1:32:45] his captains and two of his state police troopers.
[1:32:49] They gave us all a rundown of how the equipment was used
[1:32:53] and how successful it had been in other incidents
[1:32:57] throughout the state of Pennsylvania
[1:32:59] and other jurisdictions in which had this apparatus.
[1:33:04] The Rook is used to start to be able to
[1:33:08] breach the barricades or the houses
[1:33:12] you would have at this point.
[1:33:14] They know where calculated that the spots have to be looked at through their intel that we gave them and the layout of the house.
[1:33:25] They started to do this and there are various pieces of equipment on this apparatus that allows us to look inside, deploy gas if we needed to, and this is what they started to do.
[1:33:40] During this encounter, they made several attempts to continue to have a contact with Mr. Katie
[1:33:52] that never happened.
[1:33:55] We hit the house several times in different areas to try to be able to see better with
[1:34:02] inside the residence so that the suspect would know that we were there and we were going
[1:34:09] to get him to come out one way or the other but we would not allow him to take the time
[1:34:15] to be able to use one of our officers as a target. You have to understand that my position
[1:34:21] on this and why I did not allow them to go into the house on Wednesday is I had no intentions
[1:34:28] to have to have to tell any of the officers' wives or families why they had to risk their
[1:34:34] lives and I surely did not want the outcome to be what it was with Mr. Katie taking his own life.
[1:34:52] Mark you had a question. Can I can you be I don't know what you mean about the
[1:34:57] roof and hitting the house can you describe with it? Sure what this is is what most people here
[1:35:04] in the room would probably be able to relate as far as the foundation of what this vehicle is
[1:35:08] It's a bobcat which many small construction and even large construction crews use to move
[1:35:15] snow or whatever or move debris and things like that.
[1:35:19] This is what the basis of this piece of equipment is made from, but it is all armored and it
[1:35:26] was made specifically for law enforcement.
[1:35:29] It has several different types of mechanisms you can put on the front of it, should it
[1:35:35] be to protect your officers in some way. Also, as I stated, it has camera systems on it that are
[1:35:42] able to, when poked through the wall of a building or whatever you can see inside and see what's
[1:35:47] going on, which as you heard here, our robots were not successful in that manner. What I was
[1:35:52] told when it, when this kept carrying on for a while, I approached the captain from the
[1:35:59] Pennsylvania State Police and I said, tell me, I mean, how much longer will we have to try
[1:36:04] to maybe do this. And he said, I'm going to be honest with you, Sheriff. He says when
[1:36:09] we've used this before, many times one or two pokes, and just the machinery coming up
[1:36:16] through the front door of any home would make people come out. But not always does
[1:36:22] it work that way.
[1:36:23] You're saying that's the equipment that made the big holes that we've all seen.
[1:36:26] That's correct. It was.
[1:36:29] And it's armored so somebody's in it driving, but they're safe.
[1:36:33] Most definitely safe. That's both definitely safe.
[1:36:37] Thank you.
[1:36:42] Michael.
[1:36:44] Michael, go to the microphone, would you?
[1:36:50] I was just wondering, so the last communication for Mr. Cady had been, I mean, hours before this.
[1:36:56] I mean, was there any communication? I mean, did he say anything?
[1:37:00] No. As stated in the timeline, pretty much 0430 was probably the last time on New Year's Day.
[1:37:10] I believe that we had any, so, our new year's eve, right?
[1:37:15] That was the last formal contact.
[1:37:18] We had, obviously, visuals of him moving around by multiple different printer units.
[1:37:25] We had the coughing, and we could hear him walking.
[1:37:29] When I was, and at this point, to make that clear, the dog was removed on that first day.
[1:37:35] The dog came out of the location, I'm not sure exactly what time, but the dog was taken
[1:37:41] out on the first day of the state police op when they were working that initial setup.
[1:37:48] And the last report of any movement in the house was when I got briefed on the first
[1:37:56] at just before 8 o'clock, the state police sort stated that in that afternoon and I don't
[1:38:03] have the specific time but afternoon of the first there was movement within the
[1:38:09] bathroom area on the first floor specifically the washer and dryer being
[1:38:14] moved and something being put against the window and that ultimately was the
[1:38:19] location that he was found so that kind of kind of makes sense as far as it
[1:38:24] as far as that goes but after that that was the the last confirmation of any
[1:38:28] movement in the house, and that was the afternoon of the first.
[1:38:33] We came back in on the first, and the, like the sheriff talked about, the Rook operator
[1:38:41] wasn't quite done opening up what he believed he could to look inside the house.
[1:38:48] It was obviously pitch black.
[1:38:50] We had some scene lighting, but the operator of the Rook, who was a Pennsylvania State
[1:38:57] Trooper stated that he really needed to wait till daylight to finish out the work on the
[1:39:04] right side of the structure and really finish looking inside.
[1:39:09] So at that point we decided that we were kind of at the mercy of them and we would have
[1:39:16] to remain for that night from the first into the second and the plan for that night was
[1:39:23] essentially to just give loud hailing commands for him to come out. We were essentially kind
[1:39:31] of waiting on the finishing of the Rook operation. And again, we were at the mercy of them because
[1:39:40] we weren't able to use the equipment. So to finish out on that final night, the first
[1:39:47] into the second. The Rook operator stated that he essentially completed all he could
[1:39:57] do until the morning. I was at about 21.36, so that's about 9.36 a night. So he did quite
[1:40:04] a bit of work with the scene lighting. At 10.13, Syracuse Police told us that they
[1:40:12] have a long range acoustical device if we wanted to use that for, again, that loud hailing,
[1:40:20] which is essentially a really clear and high intensity speaker that we can deliver a really
[1:40:28] nice clear direction and we can be sure that it's being heard in the house.
[1:40:34] So we brought that out and we essentially had to sit tight for the night and keep
[1:40:41] a perimeter and we used the long-range coup school device throughout the night in hopes
[1:40:46] that he would come out. When New York State police sort arrived back on the scene and the
[1:40:54] Rook operator arrived back on the scene at about 8.16 a.m. on the 2nd, the Rook began
[1:41:03] and finishing the right side of the house where they weren't able to look inside.
[1:41:11] And at about 8.27 a.m., they opened up the bathroom area,
[1:41:16] and Mr. Katie was found in that location.
[1:41:21] Peter Stein. Thanks.
[1:41:24] This is a very clear presentation, and it gives me a big, good picture of what was done.
[1:41:32] but there's one thing that I'm left confused about. Exactly what were you going to accomplish
[1:41:38] with the Rook? Was it to deploy tear gas? Or was it to get a better picture of what was inside?
[1:41:47] And if it was the latter, I don't really see what that gets you because if you find
[1:41:53] the gentleman there, he could go into the next room. So I don't quite understand
[1:41:58] and what that was for.
[1:42:01] Well, I'll let Jake explain a little bit more,
[1:42:04] but so you understand, sir,
[1:42:06] is that any time you've heard it throughout the presentation,
[1:42:10] when you have a barricaded subject,
[1:42:13] you need to continue to make sure
[1:42:15] that they can't feel comfortable
[1:42:17] in the situation that they're in.
[1:42:19] You have to try to dictate as much as you possible
[1:42:23] that it's necessary to give up,
[1:42:25] that there is no hope to continue this on
[1:42:27] and it's fruitless. The Rook served several purposes. Yes, it could deploy gas, but also
[1:42:33] had a camera system that allowed us to get in there where the robots couldn't, all right.
[1:42:37] But it also opened up the house, and as bad as it looked to everybody, and I surely can
[1:42:41] understand that, it did look bad, and it was bad. There's no doubt about that. But
[1:42:47] we were able to make sure that he had no cover downstairs, and we were going to slowly
[1:42:52] go to the second floor also and resolve that also.
[1:42:57] Eventually, unfortunately, there wouldn't have been much cover for him, and he would have either
[1:43:01] had to give up or take his life as he did.
[1:43:03] And I can figure back on that, you know, the fact that he was up and we saw him moving
[1:43:12] around on that second and third day was cause for concern for us as far as the incident
[1:43:20] And it started to make us worry that it was a situation similar to the Hurricane incident
[1:43:28] a couple years ago where essentially the subject barricaded and was lying in wait and just waiting
[1:43:35] for us to make that physical entry into the house.
[1:43:39] And this, like the Sheriff said, is as bad as it looks, allowed us to get a view
[1:43:44] inside safely or as safe as possible.
[1:43:48] And, of course, this is a one-and-twenty-five-year incident, plain and simple.
[1:43:54] I mean, our SWAT team locally has been called out for 34 barricades since the existence
[1:44:02] of the team in 1998, and none of them have gone this long or required that type of equipment.
[1:44:09] So it's kind of like a – I would attest it to similar to like a tornado around here.
[1:44:14] It happens once in a while.
[1:44:15] It's not very often, but based on the facts that we laid out to you, that piece of equipment
[1:44:22] was necessary to ensure our safety and an attempt to see if we could get him to come
[1:44:29] out.
[1:44:31] Mike Feigler, you had your hand up?
[1:44:35] I mean, I really do appreciate the step-by-step thing.
[1:44:38] I just wanted to ask, the negotiation part, that's not really a step-by-step, that's
[1:44:42] like ongoing, right, throughout, and I just haven't heard much about that.
[1:44:46] I'll speak to that.
[1:44:47] Even like stuff that's said, if you would, Mike, please.
[1:44:50] My name is Mike Gray.
[1:44:51] I'm the senior investigator for the ISCA Police Department.
[1:44:54] I'm also a team leader for the SIN team that you've heard about,
[1:44:57] and just so you understand, SIN stands for...
[1:45:00] Unfortunately, the police departments are forced into reacting to situations and preparing for
[1:45:05] the next one based on budgets and personnel and whatnot.
[1:45:10] The team was formed after the death of Investigator Padula.
[1:45:13] I was a founding member of that team.
[1:45:16] I was originally trained as a negotiator by the FBI in 1989 while prior to the formation
[1:45:23] of the team.
[1:45:24] I've received retraining throughout the years, multiple times throughout the year we train
[1:45:31] as a team and just so you understand the team is comprised of members of the Thompson County
[1:45:36] Sheriff's Department, the Ithaca Police, members from some of the smaller agencies
[1:45:41] in the county, representatives from the police agencies on both campuses, Ithaca
[1:45:45] College and Cornell, and most importantly members of the Thompson County Mental
[1:45:50] health outreach team. Those components of the team are very helpful to us so that we understand
[1:45:58] and get a better understanding of what somebody might be going through in their situational
[1:46:04] mental health emergency if you will. As a result of their involvement in the team, many
[1:46:12] members of my team have gone on to get some training in different mental health disciplines
[1:46:18] if you will, so that we understand what they do as well as they understand what we do.
[1:46:26] And with that said, conversely, the representatives from mental health have been to the police,
[1:46:32] what they used to call hostage negotiation training.
[1:46:35] Now it's called critical incident negotiating because we're not always dealing with hostage situations.
[1:46:41] A person can barricade themselves with intent to harm themselves or somebody else.
[1:46:46] out, and that's as important to get them out safely as it is if they were holding hostages.
[1:46:54] In this particular situation, I was the first negotiator on the scene.
[1:47:00] I arrived sometime around 9 p.m., may have been a few minutes after, a few minutes before.
[1:47:07] I went directly to the scene, established communications with the officers on the
[1:47:15] scene, got a brief rundown of what was going on, and immediately reached out to Mr. Katie
[1:47:19] via a telephone number I was provided.
[1:47:22] I spoke with him.
[1:47:24] Our first conversation lasted three or four minutes.
[1:47:28] Mr. Katie was very agitated, very upset.
[1:47:31] Through my training and my experience, it was my job at that time to try to bring
[1:47:37] him down from this agitation level so that we could have a meaningful conversation
[1:47:40] on what it was going to take to resolve this situation.
[1:47:45] Throughout my communication with him, he remained agitated for probably the first 10 to 15 minutes.
[1:47:53] I was able to get him on a subsequent phone call.
[1:47:56] I was able to get him back down to a level where we could have a peaceful and meaningful conversation
[1:48:04] in which he actually apologized for his behavior.
[1:48:07] So he was clearly on an emotional roller coaster because he later went back up in the cycle and was very, very agitated through nothing that was said or done to him just he was on, you know, he was obviously very, very annoyed by the situation.
[1:48:21] We were attempting to have a conversation with him and get him to come out and this was very early on before any of the SWAT teams or other police officers arrived.
[1:48:32] There were police officers on the scene that had gone to serve the initial warrant and there
[1:48:37] were some additional resources that showed up after they realized that the incident was
[1:48:42] going a direction that they didn't want it to go.
[1:48:45] But the SWAT assets had not been deployed, if you will, and he was rollercoastering
[1:48:52] up and down.
[1:48:53] I talked to him for quite a while, and we went back and forth.
[1:48:56] He made some demands and initially we met some of those demands which is contrary in a lot of situations.
[1:49:05] It's contrary to a lot of teachings for negotiating in a situation like this.
[1:49:11] We met some demands and we expected and asked for some things in return.
[1:49:16] One of the primary things we asked for in return was that he come out.
[1:49:20] And when he come out, he come out with his hands where we could see them so that we could see that he was not a threat to himself
[1:49:25] offered to anybody else, and he was told, every step of the way, how he would be treated
[1:49:31] when he came out. He insisted that he not be put face down in the snow. I told him that
[1:49:35] would be happen, it wouldn't happen. If he behaved like a gentleman, he would be treated
[1:49:39] like a gentleman, and we could get past this to the next step and figure out where we
[1:49:43] were going to go from there. That conversation went well, and then for no reason that
[1:49:49] I can identify, he became very agitated again and started hanging up again, and
[1:49:54] And we were able to reestablish communications.
[1:49:57] I eventually asked that one of the other negotiators take over.
[1:50:01] I put a female negotiator on with him.
[1:50:03] She's also very well trained in crisis negotiations.
[1:50:07] She has some mental health training on top of that.
[1:50:10] Some of our mental health assets weren't going to be able to arrive right away,
[1:50:16] but they did eventually get there and were very, very helpful to us with regards
[1:50:19] to giving us some guidance as to what we might be dealing with.
[1:50:25] The female negotiator had some success.
[1:50:27] Mr. Katie asked for a couple of things, including to be able to speak with his wife, which we
[1:50:33] eventually made happen.
[1:50:34] We allowed him to speak with his wife over the phone.
[1:50:37] A request that he made followed by a promise to come out if I would let that happen.
[1:50:42] He promised me that he would come out if he was able to talk to his wife and
[1:50:47] And if he had a couple of other small guarantees, which I granted him, there were small things
[1:50:53] to give him if he was willing to come out and resolve the situation now.
[1:50:58] And this was prior to any armored vehicles, prior to any of this over militarization that
[1:51:06] some people have characterized it as.
[1:51:09] And he had promised on a couple of occasions to come out.
[1:51:14] He was given what he asked for and never gave what he said he would give.
[1:51:20] He never did what we needed him to do and come out so that he could be taken through the next step of the process.
[1:51:26] The next step of the process was getting him in front of Judge to deal with the warrant that he had been dodging for three or four months.
[1:51:34] I wasn't there for the initial service of the warrant.
[1:51:36] I wasn't there.
[1:51:37] I didn't know exactly what had gone on for that.
[1:51:41] But I was able to engage him in a meaningful conversation and for no particular reason that
[1:51:47] I can identify, he would get extremely agitated.
[1:51:52] Even after giving him some of his requests, granting several of his requests, one by accident,
[1:51:58] one of the things he asked for and then he'd come out was he needed assurance that his
[1:52:03] wife was back with their kids and that they were together and that there wasn't
[1:52:10] anybody trying to keep his wife and his kids separated. At that point he had
[1:52:15] already spoken to his wife on the phone from the back of our truck. At that point
[1:52:21] I had put him you know put her with one of our people back in a police car to
[1:52:27] keep warm as Sergeant Young mentioned it was very cold out very bitterly cold
[1:52:32] so we certainly weren't going to have her standing outside in the cold
[1:52:35] So she was in a police car, eventually I directed that she be taken to this friend's home where her kids were, to be with her kids, to use the facilities and get some comfort from the elements because this was becoming a protracted incident.
[1:52:53] One of the demands he started making after he spoke to his wife, promised to come out after he spoke to his wife, when he backed off on keeping that promise,
[1:53:03] promise. He wanted some assurances that his wife and kids were together and that they weren't
[1:53:08] being kept from one another. And I actually at that point wasn't sure that the wife and
[1:53:17] kids had gotten back together, but he was able to establish communication with her
[1:53:22] and verify that they were indeed together at that point. Again, he backed off on
[1:53:29] his promise and didn't come out.
[1:53:31] After our female negotiator had limited success with him, and I say limited success by getting
[1:53:37] him to agree that he was going to come out, he backed off and didn't honor any of those
[1:53:44] promises.
[1:53:45] We eventually transitioned to a third negotiator, a member of the sheriff's department who
[1:53:51] was a very good negotiator, and he kept Mr. Katie on a very even keel for a very
[1:53:56] a very long time, having a good conversation with him to the point where, again, Mr. Katie
[1:54:02] was apologizing and that he was coming out. He even made overtures that he was coming out.
[1:54:07] He said, I'm turning on the light right now. He had told us that he had put a screw in
[1:54:13] the front door so that we wouldn't be able to easily open it. He said he was taking
[1:54:17] out the screw and that he had turned on the light outside. None of our observers
[1:54:22] that we had at that point were able to verify any of that stuff, that the light was coming on.
[1:54:28] He says, I'm opening the door right now.
[1:54:31] And nobody could verify that he was opening the door.
[1:54:34] We had eyes on and nobody was able to see that the door was opening because it wasn't.
[1:54:38] He then became very agitated and ended the phone call again.
[1:54:42] And every time we got him back on the phone, we had to start from ground zero.
[1:54:46] It was right from the beginning again because of the fluctuation in his demeanor.
[1:54:54] I don't know what was driving that fluctuation, and I'm not here to make any assumptions.
[1:54:58] I can just tell you that with the amount of experience and the amount of different skill
[1:55:04] sets that we had on the negotiating team, that we did everything we could, not only
[1:55:11] the first night, but the second day and the second night and the third day and
[1:55:15] third night. We did everything we could. We utilized every tool in our bag with
[1:55:22] regards to the training and experience that we've all had to try to resolve this
[1:55:26] peacefully. There were times when when I was part of my responsibility in in
[1:55:33] running the team was to liaise on between the the tactical side and the
[1:55:37] negotiation side. Some of the times when I would discuss things with
[1:55:41] Sergeant Young, I would ask him to hold off on things because I thought we were making
[1:55:45] promise. There were several times when they were going to try things that they had in
[1:55:52] their tool bag, if you will, that I asked him to hold off on because I thought we were
[1:55:57] making progress and I thought he was going to come out, I can think of at least four
[1:56:01] occasions that I asked for different things to be held off on so that we could continue
[1:56:06] our efforts. There was a long-protracted effort right up to the very, very end of this situation
[1:56:13] to try to communicate with him, including myself spending six or seven hours in one of
[1:56:19] those Bearcat vehicles trying to talk to him over a loudspeaker. This was after we had
[1:56:26] attempted to contact him by phone. In addition to the phone from Syracuse, he said we
[1:56:32] We also had our own phone in there that we thought had become disabled at one point.
[1:56:39] We were able to get it reactive again.
[1:56:42] So we had phones in there beeping.
[1:56:44] He would have had several opportunities to pick up one of those phones to talk to us.
[1:56:48] I don't know if his cell phone died from lack of battery power,
[1:56:53] or if his cell phone ran out of minutes or whatever the case may be.
[1:56:57] He quit communicating with us by cell phone.
[1:56:59] We were never able to communicate with him by house phone even though through one of the listening devices that we had in the house
[1:57:05] we could hear the house phone ringing every time that we tried to call it so there were
[1:57:11] protracted and and
[1:57:13] Just every effort was made to communicate with mr.
[1:57:17] Katie to try to get him to come out
[1:57:19] We let him know exactly what was going to happen along the way he accused us of lying to him
[1:57:24] I and none of my negotiators ever lied to him even once
[1:57:28] about anything and quite frankly I'll tell you that lying is a tactic that
[1:57:32] we're taught sometimes in the right situations. This particular case I cannot
[1:57:38] document one single lie that was told to him. He was many of his demands were
[1:57:43] met which is way beyond where we normally go if we're not getting
[1:57:47] anything in return for the demands. You've all seen the movies on TV where
[1:57:52] they've tried to do these things. I can tell you, we went really, really far beyond what
[1:57:59] you could ever possibly see on TV or in your movies. We have a dedicated team of professionals
[1:58:06] that hone their skills on a regular basis to try to resolve these situations. I don't
[1:58:13] like it when the tactical team has to resolve things. I don't like it when they have to
[1:58:19] utilize what they have. That means that in my opinion that we haven't gotten done
[1:58:25] what we should have. I know that's not the case. Mr. Katie chose to end his own
[1:58:31] life. He made a decision based on whatever was going on inside his head
[1:58:36] and I'm not suggesting that what was going on inside his head is right or
[1:58:41] wrong but he made that decision and there was nothing done that put him
[1:58:47] in a situation where he had to do that at any time he could have come out of that house.
[1:58:55] My
[1:59:02] name is Rick Haas. I'm with the New York State Police. I've been with the New York
[1:59:06] State Police for 25 years. I'm a crisis negotiator myself. I've been a negotiator for well over
[1:59:12] 10 years. I've been through the same FBI training.
[1:59:18] I became involved in this incident
[1:59:20] on the morning of the 31st, approximately 9 a.m.
[1:59:24] And I pretty much took over for Mike that morning.
[1:59:29] I attempted to communicate with Mr. Katie from about 9 o'clock that morning
[1:59:35] until about 7 o'clock that afternoon or evening.
[1:59:40] Again, we tried to communicate with his cell phone through the PA system.
[1:59:45] Mrs. Katie even gave us the phone number to a phone in the house
[1:59:48] that only texted us.
[2:00:00] I had four other Christ Negotiators with the New York State Police on scene trying to communicate
[2:00:06] with Mr. Katie throughout the entire day. Frankly, we were at a loss that he didn't communicate
[2:00:15] back with us during that entire period of time, up until possibly 5.15 when one of my
[2:00:22] I sort to your members visually observed him in the residence and we were stunned at that
[2:00:30] time because truly we didn't think he was still with us at that point.
[2:00:37] And then the game plan changed by self and investigated gray then spent the better part
[2:00:43] of the next day the first inside one of these armored personnel carriers up at the house
[2:00:52] attempting to negotiate with him, attempting to speak to him, communicate with him, attempting
[2:00:57] to convince him to come out.
[2:01:00] We used every method in our bag of tricks to communicate with him, to no avail.
[2:01:08] I thank you.
[2:01:11] That is what we were able to give you tonight.
[2:01:13] I am sure that some people still have questions and maybe even doubts.
[2:01:18] But I can tell you that everyone on that scene from our agencies here locally and
[2:01:23] out had one objective. That was to obviously go home to their families, but also not to
[2:01:29] inflict any undue force on Mr. Cady, and nor did we. And as someone already mentioned,
[2:01:36] and I'm not going to drive the point home because we knew that, but we chose not to.
[2:01:40] If you look up Section 35 in the penal law, we would have been more than justified to
[2:01:45] use deadly physical force. And it never was the other used because it was never
[2:01:49] our intent, even though we would have been justified by law.
[2:01:53] We only wanted this to be a success formation where people went home and Mr. Cady was able
[2:01:59] to get the help he needed.
[2:02:03] Any legislators with questions?
[2:02:07] Mark?
[2:02:10] Yeah, I assume that there must be a report like this in writing or there's going to
[2:02:17] be that will include all of this.
[2:02:19] Once all the information is gotten from the corner and also from the state police or team,
[2:02:26] we will put together the entire package, yes.
[2:02:30] Okay. I'll wait on some detailed questions for that.
[2:02:34] Officer Gray, what you've – the story you've told is actually quite moving.
[2:02:43] I appreciate hearing all the attempts that were made.
[2:02:47] And I have some questions about what, Sheriff Lansing, you weren't able to be contacted.
[2:02:58] I was wondering about the robots and the Rook.
[2:03:04] Do they have cameras?
[2:03:05] They have cameras, right?
[2:03:07] They all have cameras.
[2:03:08] Is there film?
[2:03:09] Is it what they ever they saw recorded?
[2:03:11] So I'll speak to that.
[2:03:16] Each robot is a little bit different.
[2:03:18] All the robots have a camera.
[2:03:19] Some of them have actually an articulating arm
[2:03:23] so that you can move stuff if you need to.
[2:03:25] Some don't.
[2:03:26] Some goes from $10,000 up to,
[2:03:30] I'm sure the state police were half a million dollars
[2:03:33] on some of the ones that they put in there.
[2:03:34] But they all stream video via antennas.
[2:03:42] The one that we have and the ones that we borrow don't record that data.
[2:03:47] I'm not sure about the state police, so I won't speak to that.
[2:03:51] There's where a little bit fancier, so they may.
[2:03:53] I don't know, but ours don't record that data.
[2:03:57] So essentially whoever is running it views it, and that has to let people know kind
[2:04:03] know what they're seeing so they may like for example we drove it in and and one
[2:04:08] of my officers said I'm in the downstairs bathroom I can see I've checked it
[2:04:13] there's nothing in there I'm not going to move up towards the front of the house
[2:04:16] and they kind of relay it piece by pieces they go okay so there's no record
[2:04:21] somewhere that's no there's no there's no like DVR recording it
[2:04:26] unfortunately the Rook I don't know about the Rook I don't believe so
[2:04:31] but I'm not going to state.
[2:04:33] The states are a lot recorded real-time.
[2:04:36] Okay. And I guess this
[2:04:43] is obviously, in my mind, a lot more information, certainly more
[2:04:47] information than can be in a newspaper article or three or four or five, and I think we all
[2:04:53] appreciate this. And it really is, it's important.
[2:05:00] I accept that there are probably
[2:05:01] still unanswered questions if I think this I don't think this is going to be
[2:05:06] the last time we talk about it or think about it and that's fine I think this is
[2:05:11] an important first step in getting information out to the public and I
[2:05:16] hope the chair will suggest ways that the public can can share questions and
[2:05:22] we'll figure out you know where we go from here so I just you know those
[2:05:30] Those cop shows, everything gets resolved in 60 minutes, doesn't it, you know, and
[2:05:38] they
[2:05:39] make it so everybody's more or less somehow satisfied at the end because they want you
[2:05:43] to watch next week.
[2:05:45] So it's life isn't like that and I appreciate hearing all this information so I look forward
[2:05:52] to sort of subsequent conversations that we'll have.
[2:05:55] I can address the one concern that you have.
[2:05:58] But only one attempt was made to get a hold of me on my cell phone.
[2:06:02] There was a landline availability, also they know where I am obviously.
[2:06:07] The person making the phone call had the authority to be in charge without me being there, okay?
[2:06:13] And I guess at the initial phone call to me, they didn't feel that I had to because
[2:06:18] the final part of the message was, you can call me back if you want, okay?
[2:06:23] I did not get that until the morning because we don't have cell phones for this where
[2:06:26] I'm at.
[2:06:27] But I do have a landline that I could have been contacted at person making that phone call
[2:06:31] I didn't feel that time was necessary to call me any further than the one message left which I got in the morning
[2:06:37] Well, I can just make an editorial comment if people are coming from on a dog out of from the broom from wherever
[2:06:46] Before the sheriff knows about it
[2:06:48] I wish I wish the channel command had worked a little bit more well
[2:06:53] And that's operational as Sergeant Young spoke to, so, and I don't know if the under-sheriff
[2:06:58] wants to speak to it, but that's their decision.
[2:07:00] I would not make the decision on what they need, so.
[2:07:05] Anyone else from any
[2:07:15] other legislators or under-sheriff?
[2:07:19] I just wanted to make a comment, but I know one of the questions the gentleman was asking
[2:07:25] about costs.
[2:07:29] I was going to ask that, but go ahead.
[2:07:31] Okay.
[2:07:33] We do have costs, and it seems it's always a question that's asked after the fact.
[2:07:40] I can tell you that when any time there's in this operation or any operation cost is
[2:07:50] of no concern as it relates to people's lives, but you do have to do figure out costs afterwards.
[2:08:00] This is very much a mutual aid incident, and as such, any outside agencies bear their
[2:08:10] own costs, as we would if we went to Elmira to help them say.
[2:08:21] There was a cost, a monetary cost, and it's unfortunate that this actually happened over
[2:08:29] a holiday, which adds to the cost.
[2:08:32] cost. The cost was actually a bit less than I thought it would be, additional costs of
[2:08:42] roughly $13,000.
[2:08:50] Well, I'm talking about costs that we had to bear. Okay. Someone asked the
[2:09:00] I'm trying to answer the question.
[2:09:03] Okay.
[2:09:09] I just want to see why the stand-off of Windsor-Pende's prior.
[2:09:14] You guys know about it?
[2:09:20] I'm
[2:09:24] not going to put the answer, but yes, Windsor and Sinaloa are halfway.
[2:09:28] I was saying if you didn't bring mine, move that, do a research and read a little bit.
[2:09:33] No, we're not, we're not doing questions from their audience.
[2:09:39] I'm sorry.
[2:09:40] Let me ask, let me ask a really dumb question and was there ever a thought, was there ever
[2:09:49] a thought that, that you would, everyone would drive away and leave a couple of people
[2:09:54] there?
[2:09:57] And what would that accomplish Jim?
[2:09:58] I don't quite understand because how could we, I mean now we're going to start to
[2:10:03] think about we're going to start to think about what if whoa whoa we can't
[2:10:08] think about what if what once he fired once there was we once we established
[2:10:21] that the Katie subject had weaponry okay and we had been there along with the
[2:10:29] state police well over a dozen times to try to serve this warrant okay all
[2:10:34] This time they weren't able to leave from the information they were able to establish from Mrs. Katie that he had a gun and it was loaded.
[2:10:44] Our first objective was to get rid of any hostages, which they did.
[2:10:49] Our next objective is to make sure the community is safe and you cannot leave somebody that has already made up his mind from the intel that we had.
[2:11:03] He had a loaded gun. She must have felt there was a need to tell us. Okay
[2:11:08] She felt there was a need to tell us that that also sends a message to us
[2:11:11] She never told us that any of the other times that we were there. Okay, we have to make sure the community's safe
[2:11:25] Do that I think we're done unless you have a question
[2:11:30] you
[2:11:32] Sheriff Lansing you said that once you have the coroner's report and
[2:11:38] information from all the involved entities. There will be a final report, but you didn't
[2:11:44] say when you anticipate that.
[2:11:47] I, you know, I have no idea. I mean, you know, I don't know how long the coroner's going
[2:11:51] to take. I don't know, you know, I don't do that business, and I don't know how long
[2:11:54] the state police is going to take to get what we need, but they know we need it, and
[2:11:58] I'm sure we will be getting it when it's finished on their behalf.
[2:12:08] I'm going to try to say what I said before, this is not the last time we're going to talk
[2:12:13] about this.
[2:12:15] And I would really encourage people, let me first say, today's January 12th, Tompkins
[2:12:22] County's committee structure turns over in January.
[2:12:25] So this is, I assume, the last meeting of this particular Public Safety Committee.
[2:12:31] committee. As of next month, the chair will appoint, Mike Lane will appoint new committees.
[2:12:38] We don't know at this moment who that's going to be. We don't know if any of the four of
[2:12:42] us will be on the public safety committee. Whoever does take these positions next is
[2:12:48] certainly going to know what happened here tonight.
[2:12:52] So I would ask the public's patience because this is a unique transitional moment when,
[2:12:59] Jim is not necessarily, he may, but we don't know.
[2:13:02] Maybe the next chair of this committee, we don't know.
[2:13:05] So I can confidently say to you, there will be follow-up.
[2:13:11] We will find out, we'll get the full report.
[2:13:16] We'll have more discussions about this.
[2:13:19] The next committee and the chair of the legislature
[2:13:22] will certainly talk about what to do next.
[2:13:26] In the meantime, I suppose maybe the, I don't know, Jim, you think people should send questions
[2:13:33] to you or to Mike Lane or to Cheryl?
[2:13:35] Well, yeah, either me or Mike Lane or the critical legislature and she will certainly
[2:13:43] send it on to us.
[2:13:45] So people can know that the questions that they have are going to be answered, right.
[2:13:51] So, it's Kathy Covert, the e-mail is ccovertatomkins-co.org, that's all on the website.
[2:14:00] If you go on our website, you can find all our names and places to send it.
[2:14:06] And obviously, the Sheriff's Office, you know, would forward any questions or comments to the legislature that have to deal with that.
[2:14:21] Is there a motion to adjourn this meeting?
[2:14:24] Why don't have the rest of the agenda?
[2:14:25] Or I'm sorry. I'm sorry. You don't want to deal with the rest of it. No, I don't as a matter of fact
[2:14:32] I asked you I want something in the record about something I want on the next public safety committee meeting. All right, go ahead
[2:14:40] We had presented to us at the last December legislative meeting by a member of the public
[2:14:47] Who may still be here. I don't know an example of the way
[2:14:53] data are reported
[2:14:55] from a County Sheriff's County Sheriff's Department in a Missouri
[2:15:00] Consider, and have our sheriff consider using this other format.
[2:15:05] Forward it to us, Julie, and we will see it gets in the right hands. Is there a motion to adjourn?
[2:15:11] I would move, if I could just move the appointments in the minutes all at once.
[2:15:16] The minutes I have some things on.
[2:15:20] I'll move the appointments.
[2:15:21] Oh, I'll withdraw my, or is there a second to the appointments in the minutes from the last meeting?
[2:15:28] I will second the appointments, but I have changes for the minutes.
[2:15:35] All in favor of the appointments, please raise your hand.
[2:15:43] Okay, that passes unanimously.
[2:15:46] Motion to adjourn.
[2:15:48] Is there a second?
[2:15:50] Second.
[2:15:51] All in favor?
[2:15:52] Aye.
[2:15:53] Thank you all for coming.