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00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:04,040
Now, here's an extra whatever.

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» I think you're going to want this.
>> Yeah.

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00:00:13,599 --> 00:00:20,960
» How are you? Good.
>> I don't think the cameras are working

4
00:00:19,600 --> 00:00:24,760
yet.
>> I don't think they are either.

5
00:00:27,840 --> 00:00:32,439
How do we get this thing back to full
screen?

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» The other the first.
>> Yeah. Go that way.

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00:00:51,090 --> 00:00:53,110
» [snorts]

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» Let's

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00:01:42,079 --> 00:01:46,040
go. Let's go.

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00:02:43,751 --> 00:02:45,771
» [clears throat]

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00:03:04,057 --> 00:03:06,077
[clears throat]

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00:03:11,917 --> 00:03:13,937
[snorts]

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00:03:26,080 --> 00:03:32,760
» and my son at game tonight.
I might need to stand up just

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00:03:48,560 --> 00:03:57,159
cuz I'll just throw you under
man because I already signed up with

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00:03:54,159 --> 00:03:57,159
DAV.

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Gotcha.

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Cuz I haven't thought about it.

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Actually,
that

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[clears throat]

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00:04:13,760 --> 00:04:21,440
I want to say [clears throat]
maybe four or five months, but I

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retained them as my RS
my RSO back in

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20 21

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00:04:31,828 --> 00:04:33,848
[clears throat]

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about 5 months medical.
So you

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graduate from boot camp you can
exclusive

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00:04:50,160 --> 00:04:56,639
boot camp is where I broke my back in
three places. So, while I got to red,

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white, and blue face, I was recycled.
And because I had fractured my back in

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three places, and I did not heal as fast
as I as they wanted it as a recycle, I

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was
>> All right, Andrew, we ready?

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Okay, we'll go ahead and call this
[clears throat] Twilla City Planning

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00:05:13,039 --> 00:05:22,240
Commission meeting to order this
Wednesday, April 22nd, 2026 at the hour

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700 p.m. here in City Council Chambers.
Uh there is a significant increase in

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00:05:24,160 --> 00:05:29,039
fraudulent fishing requests using
information from the public notices that

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00:05:27,360 --> 00:05:32,720
are issued concerning the applications
being heard during the planning

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00:05:30,479 --> 00:05:36,560
commission meetings. Uh Twilla City
collects fees only at the time of

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application submitt. Uh Twilla City will
never ask for funds to be sent over wire

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transfer. Legitimate Twilla city emails
always end with twillis.gov.

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00:05:43,600 --> 00:05:48,639
If you receive a request requiring you
to pay additional fees for an

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00:05:47,039 --> 00:05:53,440
application in an email that does not
end in twillity.gov of after your

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00:05:51,440 --> 00:05:57,199
application has been submitted. This is
fraud. If you receive such a request,

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00:05:55,600 --> 00:06:01,440
please contact Twilla City Community
Development Department immediately. Our

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00:05:59,759 --> 00:06:06,360
first item on our agenda tonight is our
pledge of allegiance. If you'll please

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00:06:02,639 --> 00:06:06,360
rise and repeat the pledge.

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» I pledge algiance to the flag of the
United States of America and to the

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republic for which it stands, one nation
under God, indivisible, with liberty and

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justice for all.

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00:06:25,280 --> 00:06:28,960
Okay. Number two on our agenda tonight
is a roll call. Commissioner Hammer

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00:06:28,560 --> 00:06:30,160
» here.
>> Commissioner Proctor

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00:06:29,840 --> 00:06:31,600
» here.
>> Commissioner Faircloth

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00:06:31,280 --> 00:06:33,039
» here.
>> Commissioner Lynford

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00:06:32,639 --> 00:06:34,240
» here.
>> Commissioner Anderson

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00:06:33,919 --> 00:06:38,720
» here.
>> Let's please excuse Commissioner Sloan,

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00:06:36,160 --> 00:06:42,800
Cordova, and Jensen. I recognize Council
Members Gossip, Council Member Hansen,

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uh staff members, Miss Young, Miss
England, Mr. Johnson, and Mr. Agard.

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00:06:48,319 --> 00:06:53,440
Number three on our agenda tonight is a
public hearing and a decision on a

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conditional use permit request by
Jessica Howard to authorize the use of a

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child care and preschool involving 8 to
16 children to occur at the property

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00:07:00,319 --> 00:07:10,400
located at 1664 North Ashlin Court in
the R17 single family residential zoning

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00:07:05,919 --> 00:07:15,759
district on 17 acres. Miss England,
>> hello. Yes. Um, so I just wanted to

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00:07:13,759 --> 00:07:23,520
point out that it is surrounded by
residential use and residential zoning.

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00:07:19,759 --> 00:07:31,520
Um, and then this is a close-up site
plan. This is just showing um,

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you know, the layout and where the um,
fenced outdoor play area is going to be

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00:07:34,319 --> 00:07:44,080
and all that type of thing with this um,
application. And then um here's some

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street views. Uh I will bring up that um
the reason why I brought this, this is

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supposed to be an administrative
conditional use permit. Um, but the

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reason why I brought it to planning
commission is because I did get um a a

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an email from a concerned neighbor who
had some who was saying that, you know,

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the culde-sac might um get overwhelmed
with the additional traffic and that um

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there were a lot of cars parked at the
property and

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uh there were a lot of people living at
the house. And so I did talk to the

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00:08:21,599 --> 00:08:29,919
applicant. The applicant did say, "Oh, I
am renting my house, my basement out to

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another, like a couple." So basically
another family. So we had to clear up

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00:08:33,599 --> 00:08:41,680
that um
zoning violation for us to be able to

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00:08:38,959 --> 00:08:49,120
proceed with the conditional use. We did
get that taken care of. Um, one of the

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00:08:45,279 --> 00:08:54,880
conditions of approval will be uh for
her to make sure that all of the drop

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00:08:52,000 --> 00:08:59,440
off and pickup is going to be located
either on their driveway or in front of

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their house.
Um, this is the play area in the back

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00:09:03,600 --> 00:09:11,600
and then this is just a list of all of
the additional requirements for home

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00:09:08,720 --> 00:09:17,120
occupations that were that do have a
daycare. um they are only allowed to

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00:09:13,920 --> 00:09:21,519
have one non-resident employee. Uh the
total number of students children shall

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00:09:18,959 --> 00:09:28,080
be in shall also include her her
children as well if they are under the

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00:09:24,080 --> 00:09:34,320
care of the licensed uh daycare
provider. Um they are allowed to have

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00:09:31,600 --> 00:09:38,480
two sessions per day of a child
preschool, but we've already talked

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00:09:35,920 --> 00:09:42,240
about this and right now she is only
going to be using it for daycare. She

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00:09:40,320 --> 00:09:47,519
may eventually turn it into a preschool
though. Um,

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and then also home daycarees are allowed
to are allowed a fenced outdoor play

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00:09:50,800 --> 00:10:02,320
area as well. Um, in that they do need
to have all of the um proper state

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00:09:57,440 --> 00:10:08,560
licensing for home daycarees. Um
planning uh staff recommendation is to

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00:10:05,200 --> 00:10:15,440
approve the um conditional use permit
with the condition that all of the drop

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00:10:11,360 --> 00:10:21,360
off and pickup activities are occur in
front of her home or in the driveway her

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00:10:19,040 --> 00:10:24,560
driveway. So
that is all I have if you guys have any

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00:10:23,360 --> 00:10:29,959
more questions.
>> Okay, let's bring us back to the

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00:10:25,760 --> 00:10:29,959
commission for questions for staff.

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00:10:32,720 --> 00:10:36,320
Seeing n done. That's a good thing,
right?

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00:10:34,720 --> 00:10:39,760
» Yeah. Great. [laughter]
>> Okay. This item does require a public

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00:10:38,160 --> 00:10:42,480
hearing. I guess you're Miss Howard back
there. Okay. Well, I'll give you some

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00:10:40,959 --> 00:10:45,440
time after the public hearing if you
don't mind.

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» Perfect.
All right. We'll go ahead and open the

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public hearing.
If you want to speak to this particular

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00:10:50,320 --> 00:10:55,120
item, go ahead and approach the podium.
State your name for the record. Write

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00:10:53,360 --> 00:10:57,600
your name for the record. We can give
you time afterwards since you're the

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00:10:56,480 --> 00:10:59,519
applicant. if you don't mind, Miss
Howard.

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00:10:58,160 --> 00:11:01,920
» Um, it's Harard.
>> Howard. Sorry.

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00:11:00,320 --> 00:11:04,640
» Sorry.
>> Um,

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00:11:02,959 --> 00:11:06,800
» yeah. Hold on just a second. We'll give
you some time after the public hearing.

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00:11:06,160 --> 00:11:11,240
» Oh, sorry.
>> Yep. No, you're good. You're good.

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» There's not a whole lot in here. So,
[laughter]

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» seeing no one approach, I'll go ahead
and close the public hearing and now

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invite you up. Go ahead and address the
commission. We just have a process we

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00:11:24,000 --> 00:11:26,959
have to do.
>> No worries.

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00:11:25,279 --> 00:11:29,440
» Thank you. appreciate it. Uh, you want
to go ahead and address the commission,

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00:11:28,079 --> 00:11:33,279
you can. And if the commission has any
questions for the applicant, we can

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00:11:30,800 --> 00:11:36,959
address them now as well.
>> First off, I'd like to say that yard

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looks great. Um, I don't see these kind
of applications very often with a yard

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00:11:38,560 --> 00:11:44,800
like that with toys and things for kids
to do. So, I greatly appreciate that

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00:11:42,320 --> 00:11:48,160
part. That's that's great to see. Um,
any other things you like to address to

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us?
>> Um, I was part of Overlink Academy that

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00:11:52,079 --> 00:11:58,959
shut down. I was an assistant director
there and

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what I went through with the parents as
well is the reason I opened. Um I mainly

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have two and three-year-olds
and I'm currently in college for this uh

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for my early education degree. [snorts]
So

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I do understand um about the congestion.
I completely respect it. I have talked

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00:12:19,600 --> 00:12:26,240
to parents even before
uh this came [clears throat] up that it

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would have to be in the driveway or in
front of the home. Um since then I've

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moved two of the trucks out into storage
like where campers are and stuff. I pay

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00:12:35,839 --> 00:12:44,079
for storage now for those trucks and I
just have one vehicle in the driveway

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00:12:40,320 --> 00:12:48,240
now. So it's pretty much opened up um
for them to be there for pickup drop

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00:12:46,240 --> 00:12:50,959
off.
Kudos to you for furthering your

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00:12:49,760 --> 00:12:53,680
education. That's awesome.
>> Thank you.

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00:12:51,920 --> 00:12:57,720
» Good. Do we have any questions for the
applicant from the commission?

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00:13:01,440 --> 00:13:07,279
» Pretty straightforward.
>> Thank you. Appreciate you. [laughter]

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00:13:05,839 --> 00:13:11,040
» All right. With that all that having
been said, we'll go ahead and entertain

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00:13:08,480 --> 00:13:14,079
a motion on this item. [clears throat]
>> Mr. Chairman, I'll make a motion.

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00:13:12,639 --> 00:13:17,440
» Hold on. Just
>> Yep. Commissioner Anderson,

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00:13:15,279 --> 00:13:22,320
» I was expecting more discussion. We can
have that. [laughter]

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00:13:19,600 --> 00:13:27,760
» Um, actually the photo that was
submitted and I don't know if this came

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00:13:23,839 --> 00:13:35,279
from the applicant or
if this was staff with the camper that

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00:13:32,079 --> 00:13:39,760
is parked in front of the house and not
beyond the back of the or the front of

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00:13:38,399 --> 00:13:45,360
the house.
>> So that particular picture was um

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00:13:42,399 --> 00:13:51,600
submitted by the applicant. Um that's
why I also went to the property to um

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00:13:48,320 --> 00:13:56,920
verify what the conditions are now. Um
that camper is not there anymore. So

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00:13:58,560 --> 00:14:06,320
» perfect. Any other discussion questions?
>> And then just to confirm the other adult

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00:14:04,480 --> 00:14:11,600
individuals that were living in the
basement that were smoking there, that's

144
00:14:08,959 --> 00:14:20,000
been resolved as well.
So, um, what zoning is going to regulate

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00:14:16,240 --> 00:14:23,680
is that single family homes are used as
single family homes. We don't

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00:14:21,360 --> 00:14:29,199
necessarily regulate whether or not
somebody smokes. That's all going to be

147
00:14:25,760 --> 00:14:35,839
state licensing approval that they that
will be monitoring that, not zoning, not

148
00:14:32,639 --> 00:14:41,760
the city. So, just so you know, there
are different rules and in that type of

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00:14:38,240 --> 00:14:46,480
thing in this situation. Um, but as far
as the second family, the married couple

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00:14:44,000 --> 00:14:53,399
that lived there, they no longer live
there. So, it's all just her family

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00:14:49,199 --> 00:14:53,399
that's there now. So,

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00:14:56,000 --> 00:15:02,360
good questions. Good discussion.
Anything else from the commission?

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00:15:05,600 --> 00:15:11,040
We'll do this again after we get a first
and a second. All right, [clears throat]

154
00:15:09,920 --> 00:15:13,600
Commissioner Proctor, you want to go
ahead with your motion?

155
00:15:11,760 --> 00:15:18,480
» I move we approve the conditional use
permit request by Jessica Howard to

156
00:15:16,880 --> 00:15:22,800
authorize the use of child care and
preschool involving 8 to 16 children to

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00:15:20,639 --> 00:15:28,560
occur at 1664
North Ashlin Court. Application number

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00:15:25,760 --> 00:15:32,720
2026019
based on the findings and subject to the

159
00:15:30,560 --> 00:15:39,120
conditions listed in the staff report
dated April 16th, 2026 and to include

160
00:15:37,279 --> 00:15:43,519
this instructions for drop off and
pickup activities.

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00:15:41,440 --> 00:15:47,680
Perfect. We got a motion to approve with
com from Commissioner Proctor. Do I have

162
00:15:45,120 --> 00:15:50,160
a second?
>> I'll second.

163
00:15:48,480 --> 00:15:54,480
» And a second from Commissioner Hammer.
Any other discussion before we take this

164
00:15:51,759 --> 00:16:00,399
to a vote?
I just want to make sure that we've um

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00:15:57,839 --> 00:16:05,480
addressed all the concerns that were
sent by the neighbor.

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00:16:05,600 --> 00:16:08,811
Um [clears throat]

167
00:16:10,399 --> 00:16:18,880
and actually I think that we have um
>> Yeah, I'm good.

168
00:16:18,320 --> 00:16:20,320
» Good.
>> Yeah.

169
00:16:19,680 --> 00:16:23,120
» You sure?
>> Yeah.

170
00:16:20,639 --> 00:16:24,880
» Okay.
All right. Commissioner Hammer, how do

171
00:16:24,399 --> 00:16:26,399
you vote?
>> I.

172
00:16:25,279 --> 00:16:27,600
» Commissioner Proctor, I.
>> Commissioner Faircloth,

173
00:16:27,360 --> 00:16:30,240
» I.
>> Commissioner Lynford,

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00:16:29,600 --> 00:16:31,519
» I.
>> Commissioner Anderson,

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00:16:31,199 --> 00:16:36,959
» I.
>> I am Chairman Hamilton. I also vote I.

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00:16:33,680 --> 00:16:40,196
That one passes six to zero.
Number four on our agenda tonight is a

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00:16:38,800 --> 00:16:45,040
public hearing and recommendation
[clears throat] on a proposed text

178
00:16:41,279 --> 00:16:48,480
amendment to Twilla City Code 7-14-11,
landscaping and water conservation with

179
00:16:47,360 --> 00:16:52,079
new [clears throat] development
regarding the use of sod and residential

180
00:16:50,320 --> 00:16:56,000
landscaping and the use of irrigation
systems associated with residential

181
00:16:53,759 --> 00:17:00,160
landscaping. Mr. Agard,
>> thank you commissioners. This ordinance

182
00:16:58,000 --> 00:17:03,680
amendment is more of a housekeeping
amendment.

183
00:17:01,759 --> 00:17:08,480
Um it was at the behest of the city
mayor uh and she was looking through the

184
00:17:07,120 --> 00:17:14,160
code and found it to be fairly
cumbersome and difficult to understand

185
00:17:11,280 --> 00:17:18,000
and so we are proposing some amendments
to this ordinance to try and make it a

186
00:17:16,000 --> 00:17:22,480
little easier to understand a little
less cumbersome.

187
00:17:19,919 --> 00:17:26,400
Currently it's the ordinance that
governs landscaping and water convers

188
00:17:24,640 --> 00:17:31,520
conservation with new development.
Basically any subdivision that was

189
00:17:29,120 --> 00:17:35,679
approved after April 1st, 2023 is
required to comply with this ordinance.

190
00:17:34,480 --> 00:17:39,919
The problem with this ordinance is
there's some areas in it that just don't

191
00:17:36,960 --> 00:17:44,240
make sense. Um
it made sense when we ratified it three

192
00:17:42,000 --> 00:17:48,400
years ago, but um in looking at it
today, it's just we wanted to revisit

193
00:17:46,320 --> 00:17:52,080
this. So the current language of the
code states that saw or seated lawn

194
00:17:50,559 --> 00:17:57,760
grass shall be prohibited from park
strips and areas on the lot less than 8

195
00:17:54,960 --> 00:18:02,080
ft in width. And then number two, lots
within lots within subdivisions whose

196
00:17:59,919 --> 00:18:07,520
preliminary plan approval occurred after
April 1st, which has at least 250 ft of

197
00:18:05,760 --> 00:18:11,200
total landscaped area within the lot
shall be landscaped with no more than

198
00:18:08,960 --> 00:18:16,000
50% of front and sideyards landscaped
area as natural lawn grass. Front and

199
00:18:14,480 --> 00:18:19,919
sideyard shall be landscaped and
maintained. Landscaping is strongly

200
00:18:17,679 --> 00:18:23,919
encouraged to necessitate no or low
water use and the use of artificial turf

201
00:18:22,799 --> 00:18:27,039
is strongly encouraged for the
appearance or desire of lawn where

202
00:18:25,440 --> 00:18:31,360
irrigation is needed for plantings
outside of lawn areas shall be a drip

203
00:18:29,280 --> 00:18:35,840
style irrigation.
So what we are proposing to change is

204
00:18:34,000 --> 00:18:41,280
number one,
we'd like to eliminate the language that

205
00:18:37,760 --> 00:18:47,200
prohibits saw areas and saw in areas
then less than 8 ft in width. And the

206
00:18:44,000 --> 00:18:52,400
problem is in the R17 zone, you can have
a 6ft setback on the sideyard. And this

207
00:18:50,400 --> 00:18:56,720
ordinance basically prohibits anybody
from doing

208
00:18:54,160 --> 00:19:00,559
sod in their six-foot sideyard. if they
want to put sod in their six foot

209
00:18:58,320 --> 00:19:03,679
sideyard, as long as they meet the 50%
requirement, they should be able to do

210
00:19:02,080 --> 00:19:07,600
so. So, there's a bit of a conflict
there.

211
00:19:05,280 --> 00:19:11,600
Um,
let's see. Number two, eliminate the

212
00:19:10,160 --> 00:19:16,880
language that states this ordinance
applies to any lot with more than 250 ft

213
00:19:14,400 --> 00:19:22,720
of landscaping. Not sure why that's in
there. Every lot has more than 250

214
00:19:19,760 --> 00:19:27,440
square feet of landscaping space. Uh the
minimum lot size we have in the city is

215
00:19:24,720 --> 00:19:33,120
7,000 square ft. So they have more than
250. So that just doesn't need to be in

216
00:19:29,280 --> 00:19:38,080
there. Um number three amends the
language regarding artificial turf. We

217
00:19:36,080 --> 00:19:44,240
would like to see artificial turf used
more as a a landscaping element, not as

218
00:19:41,919 --> 00:19:50,160
the overall predominant landscaping for
a site. So, we would like to make sure

219
00:19:46,559 --> 00:19:54,080
that that uh turf does not take up
artificial turf does not take up 50% of

220
00:19:52,400 --> 00:19:59,520
the front and sideyard areas, but is
more of a of a landscaping element

221
00:19:56,320 --> 00:20:03,120
combined with other elements. And then
uh number four, just some grammatical

222
00:20:01,600 --> 00:20:06,559
errors to help the code become easier to
read and understand.

223
00:20:05,039 --> 00:20:11,520
These are the changes that we are
proposing.

224
00:20:09,039 --> 00:20:16,720
Uh the red is the code language that's
being stricken and the blue is what's

225
00:20:14,160 --> 00:20:20,960
being proposed. We do believe that it
does simplify and make the ordinance a

226
00:20:18,559 --> 00:20:23,919
little more easier to understand. And
this is how the changes would look if

227
00:20:22,400 --> 00:20:28,720
were to if the changes were to be
adopted by the city council. Saw or

228
00:20:26,799 --> 00:20:33,280
seated lawn grass shall be prohibited in
all park strips. Number two, lots within

229
00:20:31,600 --> 00:20:36,960
subdivisions whose preliminary plan
approval occurred after April 1st, 2023

230
00:20:35,600 --> 00:20:41,840
shall be landscaped with no more than
50% of front and sideyards area as

231
00:20:40,000 --> 00:20:45,200
natural lawn grass. Front and sideyard
landscaping shall be regularly

232
00:20:43,200 --> 00:20:49,919
maintained by the property owner.
Landscaping is strongly encouraged to

233
00:20:46,960 --> 00:20:54,159
result in no or reduced water use.
Artificial turf may be used as long as

234
00:20:51,919 --> 00:20:58,559
it does not exceed 50% of the total
front and sideyard area. irrigation

235
00:20:56,799 --> 00:21:04,080
needed for plantings outside of lawn
areas shall be of drip style irrigation

236
00:21:00,960 --> 00:21:07,440
system. So, by and large, it's still the
same thing. It just uh in my opinion,

237
00:21:06,320 --> 00:21:10,799
it's a little easier to read and
understand. So, if you have any

238
00:21:09,360 --> 00:21:13,360
questions, I'd be happy to answer those
for you.

239
00:21:12,000 --> 00:21:18,480
» Okay, we bring it back to the
commission. I like less complications,

240
00:21:16,240 --> 00:21:22,000
» less words. [laughter] Spells it out a
little bit better. Uh any discussion or

241
00:21:20,480 --> 00:21:26,960
questions or comments for staff from the
commission? I just had one question, but

242
00:21:24,320 --> 00:21:31,919
Andrew answered it in his presentation
on the 50% artificial turf. So

243
00:21:30,480 --> 00:21:37,760
» great,
>> perfect.

244
00:21:34,559 --> 00:21:40,720
» How this is supposed to fit in with our
water reduction, right?

245
00:21:39,280 --> 00:21:48,720
» Mhm.
>> Why would we Why would we even limit

246
00:21:44,400 --> 00:21:53,120
artificial turf to 50%. I I get what
you're saying, but one of the best

247
00:21:50,480 --> 00:22:00,360
neighborhoods in my or best yards in my
neighborhood is 100% turf,

248
00:21:55,919 --> 00:22:00,360
artificial turf. So,

249
00:22:01,600 --> 00:22:09,520
well, I don't know exactly how to answer
that question. Um, it does look great in

250
00:22:07,280 --> 00:22:15,520
the summer, looks a little odd in the
winter, but um,

251
00:22:12,240 --> 00:22:18,240
» it reduces water usage, right? If you if
you guys would like to change that, by

252
00:22:17,280 --> 00:22:21,240
all means, you can make that
recommendation.

253
00:22:25,280 --> 00:22:34,480
And Andrew, I also know that we I've
discussed this with you about the water

254
00:22:31,039 --> 00:22:41,760
usage. Anyway, um developers are turning
these lots over to homeowners. How is

255
00:22:37,520 --> 00:22:46,480
this landscaping going to be
enforced?

256
00:22:43,760 --> 00:22:51,280
Enforcement is always a difficult thing
with with the city. We have one in co we

257
00:22:48,559 --> 00:22:57,600
have one code enforcement officer and
they are busy and we don't regularly

258
00:22:55,840 --> 00:23:01,440
he doesn't regularly drive around
looking for enforcements. He's busy

259
00:22:59,840 --> 00:23:05,919
responding.
So we're still at a in a situation where

260
00:23:04,240 --> 00:23:10,480
this is an ordinance that is difficult
to enforce. Uh we are working on a

261
00:23:08,720 --> 00:23:14,000
document you've provided an example of
that a while back to me that we we would

262
00:23:12,400 --> 00:23:18,480
like I would like to have inserted with
every new building permit that is and

263
00:23:16,000 --> 00:23:26,640
CFO that is granted to a potential
homeowner. Um but at this point in time

264
00:23:22,720 --> 00:23:30,720
it's more of a we respond to complaints
and then go under go into enforcement

265
00:23:28,640 --> 00:23:35,559
procedures. We just don't have the staff
right now to actively police this.

266
00:23:35,919 --> 00:23:39,400
I get it.

267
00:23:39,600 --> 00:23:45,840
» But when they submit their plans, if
they provide landscape plans, we verify

268
00:23:43,520 --> 00:23:49,400
during the building permit process and
and so forth.

269
00:23:50,559 --> 00:23:56,480
» Good question. Good comments. Any other
questions from commission?

270
00:23:55,440 --> 00:24:00,880
» I have one.
>> Go ahead, Commissioner Lford.

271
00:23:59,360 --> 00:24:04,880
» The
Let's see. Second sentence. its front

272
00:24:03,039 --> 00:24:09,280
and sideyard landscaping shall be
regular regularly maintained by the

273
00:24:06,960 --> 00:24:13,200
property owner. So with this being under
the water conservation for new

274
00:24:11,520 --> 00:24:19,120
development
just to make sure I understand. So that

275
00:24:14,799 --> 00:24:22,000
will transfer from the builder over to
whoever the new owner is. Is that

276
00:24:20,640 --> 00:24:26,320
correct?
>> Correct.

277
00:24:23,919 --> 00:24:31,120
um during the process of building, is
there anything that suggests

278
00:24:29,360 --> 00:24:34,559
um
that the the builder or contractor isn't

279
00:24:33,279 --> 00:24:39,360
going to let that get out of hand as
well.

280
00:24:37,520 --> 00:24:43,200
» Right now, builders and contractors
usually don't put the landscaping in for

281
00:24:41,120 --> 00:24:46,799
the residential homes. It doesn't happen
very often. There's a couple builders

282
00:24:44,799 --> 00:24:51,120
that do. Dr. or Horton does the front
yards, but once they turn over occupancy

283
00:24:49,679 --> 00:24:55,520
to the resident, it becomes the
resident's responsibility.

284
00:24:53,440 --> 00:24:59,679
Uh we have talked about in staff
implementing an ordinance that would

285
00:24:57,039 --> 00:25:03,919
require contractors to install the
landscaping

286
00:25:01,200 --> 00:25:07,520
which would give us better ability to
make sure we're meeting the 50%

287
00:25:05,600 --> 00:25:11,757
requirement and so forth. That is not
something that we have

288
00:25:09,679 --> 00:25:13,840
brought through the process yet, but I
[snorts] don't that does that answer

289
00:25:12,880 --> 00:25:18,320
your question
>> a little bit. I I know when uh my wife

290
00:25:16,240 --> 00:25:24,960
and I first moved, our sideyards were
filled with metal uh concrete that they

291
00:25:22,559 --> 00:25:29,440
just had hardened and left. And so
that's why I'm curious if there's

292
00:25:27,200 --> 00:25:35,440
anything that we're putting in this as
well that would enforce

293
00:25:32,880 --> 00:25:39,440
the builder to keep the lot still tidy,
even if the homeowners are the ones that

294
00:25:37,520 --> 00:25:44,880
are going to eventually put in the
landscaping.

295
00:25:42,080 --> 00:25:48,960
Yeah. Every home has to go through
inspections before CFO is granted. One

296
00:25:47,679 --> 00:25:53,600
of the things that the inspectors look
at is to make sure the site is graded

297
00:25:51,039 --> 00:25:58,240
according to plan and that it slopes
away from that the slope is away from

298
00:25:55,440 --> 00:26:04,400
the house for storm water management.
They aren't I don't know how to say this

299
00:26:01,200 --> 00:26:07,919
but they aren't in the quality business.
The building inspectors don't do quality

300
00:26:06,400 --> 00:26:13,600
of construction. and they're there to
ensure building safety and minimum

301
00:26:10,559 --> 00:26:18,960
satisfaction of the codes. So they don't
look for concrete and debris in finished

302
00:26:16,960 --> 00:26:24,320
grading. They look for grading itself.
So right now that is not a mechanism

303
00:26:21,520 --> 00:26:28,080
that we have ability to enforce.
I understand what you're saying, but

304
00:26:25,679 --> 00:26:31,480
that's more of a quality versus a a
safety issue.

305
00:26:36,320 --> 00:26:42,559
And I I will just say that there are a
lot of builders are now starting to

306
00:26:40,320 --> 00:26:47,760
include
front yard landscaping and even sideyard

307
00:26:44,640 --> 00:26:51,760
landscaping for corner corner lots.
>> Yeah,

308
00:26:49,360 --> 00:26:56,240
» we've had we've had a lot of discussions
amongst staff how to enforce this

309
00:26:54,400 --> 00:27:00,720
ordinance because it's one that we need
to enforce more. Um, I am petitioning

310
00:26:59,039 --> 00:27:05,440
the city council for an additional code
enforcement officer to help the the

311
00:27:03,440 --> 00:27:09,360
current code enforcement officer that we
have. Uh, they have not approved that

312
00:27:07,600 --> 00:27:14,159
budget yet, but I'm hopeful that we will
get another code enforcement officer

313
00:27:11,520 --> 00:27:19,760
which will enable us to begin or to do
more enforcement of codes like this.

314
00:27:17,279 --> 00:27:23,600
So, we we are aware of the situation and
we want to enforce that. We are working

315
00:27:21,600 --> 00:27:27,760
to get there.
That's about all I can give you right

316
00:27:24,960 --> 00:27:32,080
now. So,
Yeah, it's just having an ordinance that

317
00:27:29,919 --> 00:27:35,919
doesn't have any teeth. Like it doesn't
make any sense to me. I wish that there

318
00:27:34,080 --> 00:27:41,039
was a way that we could figure out
because as a no new homeowner, my very

319
00:27:39,200 --> 00:27:46,640
first time, I wouldn't even have known
to come and ask. Luckily, my front yard

320
00:27:44,320 --> 00:27:50,799
was put in. But I mean, you wouldn't
know that you need to submit a plan.

321
00:27:48,480 --> 00:27:58,480
There's so many people that think my
property, my rights, I get to do

322
00:27:52,880 --> 00:28:02,080
whatever I want and and doing it um
after the thought like after they've

323
00:28:00,399 --> 00:28:05,679
done everything wrong and spent all the
money and done all the things and then

324
00:28:03,600 --> 00:28:11,120
we're going to send in the court code
enforcer when things go wrong. Just

325
00:28:08,640 --> 00:28:15,840
seems like it it shouldn't be that hard
to figure out. Do we give it to a

326
00:28:13,520 --> 00:28:20,159
developer? it's part of their package of
coming to the city or does is the

327
00:28:18,399 --> 00:28:24,320
developer required to tell the new
homeowner we're not putting in your yard

328
00:28:22,399 --> 00:28:28,159
but you have to and it has to be this
way.

329
00:28:25,279 --> 00:28:31,440
» I mean because having this code is going
going to be great. I love the new

330
00:28:30,000 --> 00:28:36,399
improvements. I don't have any problems
with those. I just don't think that it's

331
00:28:33,919 --> 00:28:38,960
going to be very helpful.
I mean that doesn't

332
00:28:38,399 --> 00:28:42,799
» and
>> it's not a problem for tonight. I guess

333
00:28:40,799 --> 00:28:48,960
» it's an educational
problem as it really is.

334
00:28:46,000 --> 00:28:51,840
» Yeah, it we're evolving. We're we're
working towards it.

335
00:28:50,960 --> 00:29:00,320
» Yeah.
>> So, would would amending this help give

336
00:28:55,679 --> 00:29:04,559
you some leg to stand on in eventually
putting something in our codes that

337
00:29:02,159 --> 00:29:09,600
would delegate this to the builder? Does
this help you along that path at all?

338
00:29:06,880 --> 00:29:14,000
» No, this just cleans up existing code.
just makes it easier. Just a bit of a

339
00:29:11,520 --> 00:29:19,360
like I said a housekeeping matter. That
would be an entirely different code that

340
00:29:16,880 --> 00:29:24,720
we would have to bring back to you.
>> At which point then we would probably

341
00:29:20,720 --> 00:29:28,480
remend this so that the property own to
exclude the property owner line.

342
00:29:26,640 --> 00:29:29,840
» It might it might it might be involved
in an amendment.

343
00:29:29,520 --> 00:29:34,799
» Okay.
>> Yep.

344
00:29:32,240 --> 00:29:40,960
» Oh, interesting. So, we could
theoretically table this until that

345
00:29:37,279 --> 00:29:43,679
part's included if we wanted.
Or would you want language and then work

346
00:29:43,279 --> 00:29:47,360
on it?
>> But the ordinance is already there. I

347
00:29:45,520 --> 00:29:51,279
mean the qualifications. So
>> tableabling it doesn't really change

348
00:29:50,080 --> 00:29:54,679
anything because the ordinance is
already in place.

349
00:29:56,399 --> 00:30:06,559
» I see. I will say for the record that I
do like the new changes,

350
00:30:01,679 --> 00:30:11,159
» but I really am not buying into the 50%
limitation on artificial turf.

351
00:30:11,750 --> 00:30:14,240
[clears throat]
>> And of course, we can make that

352
00:30:13,039 --> 00:30:17,919
recommendation. We're not making a
decision. So, we're sending it up to

353
00:30:15,679 --> 00:30:20,399
city council to make that big decision.
>> You can recommend however you'd like on

354
00:30:19,360 --> 00:30:24,480
it. [laughter]
>> We could recommend that uh Councilman

355
00:30:22,880 --> 00:30:29,491
Gossip shakes his head, too. But, you
know, I doubt it'll happen. Give it a

356
00:30:26,480 --> 00:30:29,491
couple years. [laughter]

357
00:30:31,600 --> 00:30:38,080
» Yeah. If if you're not buying in the 50%
if the rest of the commission is on

358
00:30:35,039 --> 00:30:41,600
board, I guess we'll find out. But um I
think living in our day and age, the

359
00:30:39,840 --> 00:30:44,600
less water the better. Right.
>> Right.

360
00:30:45,440 --> 00:30:49,960
» Great. Any other questions or
discussion?

361
00:30:53,360 --> 00:31:01,840
make a recommendation in there that they
uh hire a new code enforcer. [laughter]

362
00:30:59,200 --> 00:31:05,360
» Actually, I I do have one more question.
>> Yeah, go ahead.

363
00:31:02,799 --> 00:31:10,640
» With with section one on this, I I see
under section two, you have a date of

364
00:31:06,720 --> 00:31:16,960
April 1st, 2023 for pre-existing in uh
homes that have solder seated grass.

365
00:31:14,399 --> 00:31:22,360
And this just straight across the board
saying that it's prohibited. Now, um,

366
00:31:22,399 --> 00:31:28,880
homes that already have it, even if they
were built prior to that date in section

367
00:31:26,159 --> 00:31:32,320
two, are they still prohibited? Are we
going to be knocking on their door

368
00:31:29,840 --> 00:31:36,159
saying, "Hey, you need to go hire a
landscaper and get rid of this, or are

369
00:31:33,919 --> 00:31:41,120
we going to
set kind of a grandfatherin situation

370
00:31:39,039 --> 00:31:44,159
with this before we go down the route of
code enforcement?"

371
00:31:42,080 --> 00:31:48,880
» Excellent question. Uh you'll note that
the title it says landscaping water

372
00:31:46,960 --> 00:31:53,760
conversation with new development. So
it's anticipated that this applies only

373
00:31:51,919 --> 00:31:57,360
to new development. So existing
development that has lawn in their par

374
00:31:55,519 --> 00:32:01,519
straps, we're not going to chase them
down and say you need to put gravel or

375
00:31:59,200 --> 00:32:04,519
cobble in there. It's it's new
development.

376
00:32:07,200 --> 00:32:15,519
» That is a great question.
I think I would just want to see that in

377
00:32:12,320 --> 00:32:19,840
section one as well just for clarity cuz
as it stands right now I I understand

378
00:32:17,919 --> 00:32:26,080
that it's under the with new
development. However, I could see that

379
00:32:23,039 --> 00:32:32,799
still being hairy at some point just
because of a misinterpretation.

380
00:32:28,720 --> 00:32:38,559
So, I would I would hope to
put a date on that as well,

381
00:32:35,919 --> 00:32:45,720
specifying for subdivisions or plans
after April 1st, 2023, just so that the

382
00:32:42,000 --> 00:32:45,720
language is in both.

383
00:32:52,080 --> 00:32:58,000
» Andrew, what are your thoughts on that,
including that date in number one?

384
00:32:56,640 --> 00:32:59,120
» I think it's a sound idea. Yeah, I have
no problem with it.

385
00:32:58,720 --> 00:33:05,440
» Okay.
>> And you include that put landscape and

386
00:33:02,480 --> 00:33:08,799
water conversation doing development
approved after April 20 23rd as the

387
00:33:07,919 --> 00:33:10,320
heading.
>> You can do that.

388
00:33:09,600 --> 00:33:14,880
» Yep.
>> That will all

389
00:33:12,799 --> 00:33:19,919
» Yep.
>> Yeah. That helps kind of reiterate the

390
00:33:17,440 --> 00:33:23,039
numbers and the dates because we know
how well we all read things. We just

391
00:33:21,600 --> 00:33:27,840
skim through it most of the time and
we're not really reading deep into

392
00:33:24,320 --> 00:33:30,159
» so if it right there in the heading it
sticks out.

393
00:33:28,480 --> 00:33:35,799
» Yep. Applies to both paragraphs in that
point. So yeah, it's it's well said.

394
00:33:37,360 --> 00:33:44,559
» Great idea. All right. Any other
questions or comments for staff?

395
00:33:42,559 --> 00:33:48,159
And hopefully these these houses that do
have sod in their park strip, they take

396
00:33:46,399 --> 00:33:52,080
care of that sod buyback program because
they can actually make some money off

397
00:33:49,360 --> 00:33:56,480
that. Yeah, redo their yard and save
some money. I would, but I don't park

398
00:33:54,240 --> 00:34:00,240
strip group. So, [clears throat]
all right. Any other discussion,

399
00:33:57,679 --> 00:34:03,240
questions, comments,
concerns?

400
00:34:05,279 --> 00:34:10,720
All right. This one also requires a
public hearing. So, I'll go ahead and

401
00:34:09,119 --> 00:34:14,480
open the public hearing now. If you'd
like to speak to this particular item,

402
00:34:12,320 --> 00:34:19,399
please approach the podium. State your
name for the record. Write your name for

403
00:34:16,240 --> 00:34:19,399
the record.

404
00:34:21,760 --> 00:34:26,560
Seeing no one approach, I'll go ahead
and close the public hearing, bring it

405
00:34:25,200 --> 00:34:31,560
back to the commission for any of the
further questions, comments, or further

406
00:34:28,560 --> 00:34:31,560
action.

407
00:34:36,079 --> 00:34:43,760
» Chair, I move that we forward a positive
recommendation to city council for the

408
00:34:42,000 --> 00:34:51,919
proposed amendment of Twilla City Code
7-14-11, landscaping water conservation.

409
00:34:48,000 --> 00:34:57,599
um for new developments with
in accordance with the staff report with

410
00:34:54,159 --> 00:35:00,599
the following changes
um

411
00:35:01,359 --> 00:35:10,240
for approvals occurring after April 1,
2023

412
00:35:05,440 --> 00:35:16,960
bold in the [music] title and
everything after artificial turf may be

413
00:35:13,200 --> 00:35:16,960
used stricken.

414
00:35:22,320 --> 00:35:29,599
um with the
and let me modify that. [snorts]

415
00:35:27,119 --> 00:35:36,480
So the irrigation needed for plantings
outside land areas shall be

416
00:35:32,640 --> 00:35:38,640
um drip style irrigation system. I want
that included in that.

417
00:35:37,599 --> 00:35:40,960
» So you pretty much just want to
eliminate the percentage on artificial

418
00:35:40,480 --> 00:35:44,800
turf.
>> Yes.

419
00:35:41,280 --> 00:35:49,040
» Okay. So, I got a motion with a positive
recommendation with the conditions

420
00:35:46,320 --> 00:35:55,280
listed as uh add the date to the title,
the a date, April 1st, 2023, and then

421
00:35:51,839 --> 00:35:57,520
remove uh the limitation on artificial
turf. Is that correct, Commissioner

422
00:35:56,960 --> 00:35:59,200
Anderson?
>> Correct.

423
00:35:57,920 --> 00:36:02,800
» All right. Do I have a second?
>> I'll second.

424
00:36:00,079 --> 00:36:06,960
» And a second from Commissioner Lynford.
Any discussion before we take this to a

425
00:36:04,480 --> 00:36:12,640
vote?
just that I haven't had enough time to

426
00:36:08,880 --> 00:36:15,839
look at less than I mean to take out the
50%.

427
00:36:14,320 --> 00:36:22,400
So
I'm not I'm not in favor of that.

428
00:36:19,200 --> 00:36:32,320
» Okay, we can discuss it still.
I just I'd like to know the benefit of

429
00:36:28,000 --> 00:36:36,400
of having of taking that out and and I'm
not sure what I what I think that looks

430
00:36:33,920 --> 00:36:40,320
like and what a whole neighborhood would
look like. So, I'm just not sold on it.

431
00:36:38,560 --> 00:36:42,400
I haven't had enough time to think about
that. So,

432
00:36:40,880 --> 00:36:46,800
» is there a different number in mind that
you have or [snorts]

433
00:36:45,440 --> 00:36:51,440
» Okay.
>> Just my personal

434
00:36:48,320 --> 00:36:56,000
» and you're entitled to it all. Any other
discussion?

435
00:36:53,200 --> 00:37:01,520
» When I when I think of
something more than 50% of front and

436
00:36:58,000 --> 00:37:06,400
side, I think Vegas. I uh I came from
Henderson um before moving up to Utah

437
00:37:04,800 --> 00:37:14,400
and
a lot of that area

438
00:37:10,800 --> 00:37:19,520
is about 70 80% turf. They'll still put
in a garden bed here or there. They'll

439
00:37:15,839 --> 00:37:23,440
do they'll still do some uh
a little bit of zeroscaping here and

440
00:37:21,040 --> 00:37:30,240
there to offset it. I don't know that I
particularly have seen 100%. But

441
00:37:25,920 --> 00:37:33,680
limiting to no more than 50 I I just I
don't think that necessarily needs to be

442
00:37:32,000 --> 00:37:40,520
there and and I think that's why I would
second that motion as I did.

443
00:37:37,520 --> 00:37:40,520
» Okay.

444
00:37:41,440 --> 00:37:48,040
Any other questions
before we take this to a vote?

445
00:37:48,640 --> 00:37:51,760
» Okay. Commissioner Hammer, how do you
vote?

446
00:37:50,560 --> 00:37:53,280
» Nay.
>> Commissioner Proctor,

447
00:37:52,800 --> 00:37:54,560
» yay.
>> Commissioner Faircloth,

448
00:37:54,240 --> 00:37:56,079
» yay.
>> Commissioner Lynford,

449
00:37:55,520 --> 00:37:57,440
» yay.
>> Commissioner Anderson,

450
00:37:57,119 --> 00:38:04,520
» yay.
>> I am Chairman Hamilton, I also vote I.

451
00:38:00,000 --> 00:38:04,520
That one passes 5 to one.

452
00:38:07,359 --> 00:38:13,359
Of course, that is a positive
recommendation going up to the city

453
00:38:11,440 --> 00:38:17,440
council. They heard our discussion, so
they will address that then as well. All

454
00:38:15,760 --> 00:38:22,960
right, this brings us to number five on
our our agenda tonight is a decision uh

455
00:38:19,920 --> 00:38:26,281
on resolution 2026-01
public comment policy amendments and

456
00:38:25,040 --> 00:38:29,680
open meetings. Looks like we
[clears throat] got Mr. Johnson joining

457
00:38:27,520 --> 00:38:31,280
us tonight for this one.
>> Thank you, Commissioners.

458
00:38:30,880 --> 00:38:34,240
» Absolutely.
>> I don't get the mic very often, so I

459
00:38:33,200 --> 00:38:39,040
appreciate it.
>> You going to sing us a song, too? No,

460
00:38:36,640 --> 00:38:42,480
but I am kind of doubling up on item
five. So [laughter] if you let the

461
00:38:40,960 --> 00:38:44,560
lawyer talk, you get twice as much,
right?

462
00:38:42,720 --> 00:38:49,560
» That's okay. Just tap in pants.
>> Oh, perfect.

463
00:38:46,560 --> 00:38:49,560
» Okay.

464
00:38:50,240 --> 00:38:57,040
» So, what I originally was planning to
present was um just some changes in the

465
00:38:54,720 --> 00:39:03,040
public comment policy. I I'll get to
those in a minute, but but the um Twilla

466
00:39:00,880 --> 00:39:06,720
City Council made some changes to their
policy and it seemed to make sense to

467
00:39:04,800 --> 00:39:12,400
offer similar changes to the commission
to see if it would make sense to adopt

468
00:39:08,960 --> 00:39:16,960
those. Um talking it with through it
with Mr. Agard, it's also probably a

469
00:39:14,720 --> 00:39:20,240
good opportunity since since it overlaps
a little bit with the Open Meetings Act

470
00:39:18,880 --> 00:39:25,200
to have a discussion on the Open
Meetings Act. So, we're kind of doubling

471
00:39:22,480 --> 00:39:28,960
up on item five. Um, if it's okay, I
think it makes sense if I were to we

472
00:39:27,280 --> 00:39:34,480
we'll count this as training as well to
to go through the open public meetings

473
00:39:31,599 --> 00:39:38,320
act portion of it. Um, see if we have
any questions and then I'll I'll get to

474
00:39:36,079 --> 00:39:41,200
the to the resolution having to do with
the public comments policy.

475
00:39:40,079 --> 00:39:48,480
» Perfect. I love it.
>> Great. Great. Um, so the goal of the uh

476
00:39:45,920 --> 00:39:55,280
public meetings act really is is
transparency. Um, it's right right in

477
00:39:51,359 --> 00:39:58,880
the in the statute itself. We It doesn't
say we the people, but it certainly

478
00:39:56,880 --> 00:40:02,560
reflects we the people. Public bodies
exist to aid in the conduct of the

479
00:40:00,640 --> 00:40:07,680
people's business and actions and
deliberations of public bodies must be

480
00:40:04,880 --> 00:40:11,040
taken openly.
And as I stated, there's also a

481
00:40:09,599 --> 00:40:15,599
requirement right there in the code that
there's annual training um for all the

482
00:40:13,760 --> 00:40:19,280
public body members. And just to
clarify, public body includes the the

483
00:40:17,760 --> 00:40:23,359
planning commission. you are all part of
a public body. Um, as as we go through

484
00:40:21,839 --> 00:40:29,680
the slides, I kind of go back and forth
between commission and public body, but

485
00:40:25,599 --> 00:40:32,720
but uh you are a public body. Um, I'm
going to jump ahead to the punchline,

486
00:40:31,119 --> 00:40:38,320
but we're going to talk a lot about
what's in the um open meetings act. The

487
00:40:36,800 --> 00:40:43,119
one I really just want to hit on the
head is this one. Um, we'll talk about

488
00:40:41,040 --> 00:40:48,640
things like notice and minutes and those
requirements, but where the commission

489
00:40:45,520 --> 00:40:53,040
will have support of of city staff like
Miss Young, Mr. Agard, Miss Miss

490
00:40:50,960 --> 00:40:58,000
Angland, and city recorder on all those
things. This is one where

491
00:40:56,319 --> 00:41:02,880
really not that you're totally on your
own other than, you know, we have this

492
00:41:00,240 --> 00:41:07,440
training, but but this really will be up
to you as the commissioners to follow.

493
00:41:05,359 --> 00:41:12,400
And this is just right out of the code.
It is a violation for individuals

494
00:41:09,839 --> 00:41:17,520
constituting a quorum of a public body
again that counts as the commission to

495
00:41:14,880 --> 00:41:24,000
act together outside of a meeting in a
concerted and deliberate way to predeter

496
00:41:20,960 --> 00:41:29,599
predetermine an action to be taken by
the public body at a meeting on a re

497
00:41:26,640 --> 00:41:36,079
relevant matter. So you can't huddle up
before a meeting basically and and and

498
00:41:32,800 --> 00:41:38,640
plan on what you're going to do. Um,
we'll come back to that. Like I say, I'm

499
00:41:37,599 --> 00:41:43,040
really going to hit that one on the
head. But first of all, what are the

500
00:41:40,400 --> 00:41:47,760
elements of a lawful meeting? Well,
first of all, a public body convenes. It

501
00:41:45,599 --> 00:41:51,520
seems odd that that's not defined, but
what we have in mind is that a quorum of

502
00:41:49,599 --> 00:41:56,000
the body has to be present. So, for the
commission under the bylaws, it's at

503
00:41:53,680 --> 00:42:00,319
least four members. One or more may be
present electronically.

504
00:41:57,920 --> 00:42:04,960
Um, and that's to have a quorum. So keep
in mind when we when we get back to the

505
00:42:02,480 --> 00:42:10,319
one I'm I'm I'm hitting over the head it
that's actions by a quorum. So four

506
00:42:07,920 --> 00:42:15,200
members even if electronically
um could constitute a quorum. Um it con

507
00:42:13,760 --> 00:42:20,720
it's convened with someone with
authority to do so and uh following the

508
00:42:18,400 --> 00:42:25,160
lawful process to do so. In other words,
the chair calls the meeting to order.

509
00:42:26,319 --> 00:42:33,040
Um the lawful purpose of a public
meeting. First of all, I'm jumping down.

510
00:42:30,560 --> 00:42:36,319
It's worth defining relevant matter.
That's actually defined in the statute.

511
00:42:34,880 --> 00:42:41,920
It's something within the scope of the
authority of the of the public body.

512
00:42:39,599 --> 00:42:46,880
So, the purpose of the of a of a meeting
is to receive public comment about a re

513
00:42:44,880 --> 00:42:52,079
relevant matter or to deliberate
deliberate about a relevant matter or

514
00:42:49,359 --> 00:42:55,920
take action vote on a on a relevant
matter. Again, this these are all things

515
00:42:54,400 --> 00:43:02,480
that for for the commission, things that
the commission has jurisdiction over.

516
00:42:59,760 --> 00:43:06,560
Things that aren't a public meeting
public meeting even if a quorum is

517
00:43:05,359 --> 00:43:12,560
present are things like social
gatherings and chance encounters um

518
00:43:10,160 --> 00:43:17,760
parades, ribbon cutings. We don't have
to notice if if five of you are planning

519
00:43:15,200 --> 00:43:23,760
to go to a ribbon cutting. Um we don't
have to, you know, uh recently Mayor Win

520
00:43:20,800 --> 00:43:27,839
retired. don't have to notice if if a
quorum of the of the council or

521
00:43:26,079 --> 00:43:31,680
commission is going to attend because
you the plan isn't for you to go there

522
00:43:30,000 --> 00:43:36,240
and talk about business, right? Talk
about relevant matters. It's the same if

523
00:43:34,000 --> 00:43:42,319
you attend a a seminar. You don't have
to divvy up say, "Oh, only three of us

524
00:43:39,119 --> 00:43:46,319
can go to this training." No, it you you
all can go. It's okay. Just be careful

525
00:43:44,480 --> 00:43:50,800
not to not to discuss something
inappropriate. And if you run into other

526
00:43:49,040 --> 00:43:55,200
people at the park, that's fine. You can
talk to them. You don't need to run

527
00:43:51,920 --> 00:44:02,400
away. You just um like I say, you can't
talk about anything inappropriate.

528
00:43:57,440 --> 00:44:06,560
So, how is a meeting open in public? Um
basically the questions are how does the

529
00:44:04,880 --> 00:44:10,079
city or how does the commission what
does it do to ensure that the public

530
00:44:08,640 --> 00:44:15,040
knows the time and place that the
meetings are going to are going to occur

531
00:44:12,240 --> 00:44:20,640
or have already occurred? What are the
topics that are going to be discussed or

532
00:44:16,960 --> 00:44:25,040
were discussed? um
that the public has a reasonable

533
00:44:23,040 --> 00:44:31,440
opportunity to attend and give input at
the meeting and they need to have a

534
00:44:28,480 --> 00:44:35,920
reasonable way to see how the commission
came to the decisions. They need to,

535
00:44:34,480 --> 00:44:40,640
like I say, you can't huddle up before
the meeting. You deliberate at the

536
00:44:37,760 --> 00:44:46,560
meeting.
Sorry, this is a busy one, busy slide.

537
00:44:44,400 --> 00:44:52,319
Um the notice requirements I'm going to
go quickly through. I did put an

538
00:44:48,480 --> 00:44:56,079
asterisk next to them. I The open
meetings act has specific notice

539
00:44:53,920 --> 00:45:01,359
requirements. A lot of what the
commission considers have special notice

540
00:44:58,400 --> 00:45:04,240
requirements that are in LAMA, not in
open public meetings. I'm just making

541
00:45:02,800 --> 00:45:10,400
note of it. I don't want to get too
complicated. For the purpose of the open

542
00:45:06,319 --> 00:45:15,440
meetings act, um it requires 24 hours
notice for the meeting itself. Um the

543
00:45:12,880 --> 00:45:21,119
notice has to show the uh date, time,
and place of the meeting. has to be

544
00:45:18,160 --> 00:45:25,200
accompanied by an agenda and the agenda
has to have reasonable specificity as to

545
00:45:23,200 --> 00:45:30,240
what's going to be discussed and I
highlighted hearings especially with

546
00:45:27,839 --> 00:45:35,520
hearings it's it's uh commission of
course gets a lot of hearings it's

547
00:45:32,240 --> 00:45:41,760
important that they know what is going
to be addressed uh for example the

548
00:45:38,000 --> 00:45:46,880
hearing um recently on the on the
ordinance uh having to do with parking

549
00:45:43,920 --> 00:45:52,720
in the front yard if the notice only
said ordinance on parking. That wouldn't

550
00:45:49,920 --> 00:45:58,960
do it. Um I know Mr. Agar did a great
job of getting exactly what it is in the

551
00:45:54,560 --> 00:46:03,680
notice so so that it was clear. Um also
um

552
00:46:00,880 --> 00:46:07,920
uh there it's uh specified where where
the notice has to be posted uh for

553
00:46:05,839 --> 00:46:12,640
Twilla City. Those are the three places.
The Utah public notice website, city's

554
00:46:10,480 --> 00:46:16,720
official website, and in a public place
likely to be seen. We'd like city hall.

555
00:46:15,359 --> 00:46:19,720
That seems like the one that makes
sense.

556
00:46:19,760 --> 00:46:29,440
What if someone brings up a topic that's
not on the agenda? Well, first of all,

557
00:46:27,280 --> 00:46:32,880
topic is not defined by the statute, but
I'm going to jump down to the bottom of

558
00:46:30,720 --> 00:46:38,800
the slide here. Topic probably is
limited to relevant matters. Um, so

559
00:46:36,240 --> 00:46:43,839
within the scope of the jurisdiction,
uh, for example, talking about

560
00:46:40,880 --> 00:46:46,800
Councilman Gossit's haircut, shaving his
head, that's probably okay. Even though

561
00:46:45,440 --> 00:46:51,839
we didn't put it on the agenda, it's
probably okay. You mentioned it. Um, but

562
00:46:50,160 --> 00:46:56,000
for relevant matters, commissioners
can't bring up something that's not on

563
00:46:53,280 --> 00:47:03,359
the agenda. But if a resident brings up
a topic that's not on the agenda and the

564
00:47:00,400 --> 00:47:08,160
chair allows it, the commission can
discuss that topic further as long as it

565
00:47:05,280 --> 00:47:13,119
originated with a resident and not with
a commissioner. Um but the commission

566
00:47:10,960 --> 00:47:18,000
can't take a vote on it. So that's kind
of a judgment call for the chair. Um how

567
00:47:16,240 --> 00:47:21,680
how much do we really want to talk about
this if we can't vote on it? Are we

568
00:47:20,000 --> 00:47:27,960
gonna muddy the record if we're
eventually going to take it to vote at

569
00:47:23,040 --> 00:47:27,960
another meeting? It's a judgment call.

570
00:47:28,000 --> 00:47:33,680
Um, briefly,
I'm I I'm just notice just going to

571
00:47:32,400 --> 00:47:38,400
mention notice requirements for
emergency meetings. Just to be clear,

572
00:47:36,160 --> 00:47:42,960
emergency meetings are not the same as a
regular meeting during an emergency.

573
00:47:40,880 --> 00:47:46,000
This isn't like, okay, you have a
regularly scheduled meeting and we have

574
00:47:44,560 --> 00:47:49,839
the next pandemic and so you got to
figure something out. meetings can be

575
00:47:47,599 --> 00:47:54,880
postponed and cancelled. These are more
meetings where um something came up

576
00:47:52,640 --> 00:48:00,160
that's unforeseen and it's got to be
decided in a in a quick manner. So

577
00:47:57,760 --> 00:48:04,720
probably um maybe it's my lack of
imagination, but I just don't think that

578
00:48:01,760 --> 00:48:08,640
that's um going to happen that often. We
have emergencies, but not necessarily

579
00:48:06,400 --> 00:48:11,760
emergency meetings, if that makes sense.
Um and the timing of the notices,

580
00:48:11,203 --> 00:48:17,520
[clears throat and cough]
excuse me. Um

581
00:48:14,720 --> 00:48:22,720
we we go right to the best notice
practable practicable so of the time and

582
00:48:20,560 --> 00:48:28,640
place and the topics to be considered.
Um with an emergency meeting time is

583
00:48:26,319 --> 00:48:33,040
short and and so they the legislature
gives you some leeway as as far as

584
00:48:30,720 --> 00:48:37,920
timing and also the location just what
makes the most sense

585
00:48:35,920 --> 00:48:43,359
to have an emergency meeting. It
requires an attempt to notify all the

586
00:48:40,400 --> 00:48:47,839
commissioners. So again, this isn't just
we had a regular meeting and we had an

587
00:48:45,040 --> 00:48:51,760
emergency situation where we got to
figure it out. It's got to be nobody

588
00:48:50,480 --> 00:48:55,200
knows about this meeting yet. We're
trying to notify all the commissioners

589
00:48:53,359 --> 00:49:00,520
and then a majority of the commissioners
have has to have to approve that it's

590
00:48:57,280 --> 00:49:00,520
going to occur.

591
00:49:02,319 --> 00:49:09,760
Public access to meetings. I apologize.
This is about the most circular

592
00:49:06,880 --> 00:49:13,440
explanation I I I've done. But what is
open and public? Must be open to the

593
00:49:11,920 --> 00:49:19,040
public.
A little bit uh better of an explanation

594
00:49:16,240 --> 00:49:24,079
is um there has to be a space provided
and facilities uh at an anchor location

595
00:49:22,559 --> 00:49:30,400
where the commission normally meets.
That's right here. even if there's uh if

596
00:49:26,880 --> 00:49:34,800
it's a electronic or virtual meeting
um the public has to have an opportunity

597
00:49:32,559 --> 00:49:38,480
to gather here and to comment here have
hearings here. The only exception if is

598
00:49:37,040 --> 00:49:44,319
if there's some kind of health or safety
risk in in that case there can be an

599
00:49:40,960 --> 00:49:49,440
exception um and
something else figured out depending on

600
00:49:46,400 --> 00:49:53,839
on on what the danger is. Um there still
has to be reasonable opportunity for the

601
00:49:51,839 --> 00:50:00,400
public to be heard. Um, and I'll also
note um the Americans with Disabilities

602
00:49:57,200 --> 00:50:04,160
Act that um any accommodations we we'd
seek to to make those happen for for

603
00:50:02,720 --> 00:50:08,000
people with disabilities so that they
can have meaningful access to the

604
00:50:06,319 --> 00:50:11,680
meeting and and meaning meaningful
input.

605
00:50:09,839 --> 00:50:17,280
Okay, we're back to this one that I'm
hammering over the head. Public access

606
00:50:15,040 --> 00:50:21,440
to the commission's deliberations. It's
a violation for individuals constituting

607
00:50:19,359 --> 00:50:25,280
a quorum of a public body to act
together outside a meeting in a

608
00:50:23,040 --> 00:50:29,040
concerted and deliberate way to
predetermine an action to be taken by

609
00:50:27,119 --> 00:50:35,200
the public body at a meeting on the
relevant matter. Um some pointers, avoid

610
00:50:32,240 --> 00:50:38,880
texting or emailing other commissioners
um about any [clears throat] topic

611
00:50:36,400 --> 00:50:43,440
during the meeting. avoid discussing
discussing or deliberating items outside

612
00:50:41,920 --> 00:50:47,680
the meeting with other commissioners,
but especially if there's a a quorum of

613
00:50:45,599 --> 00:50:50,680
commissioners.
Um,

614
00:50:50,960 --> 00:50:58,319
and then public access access to records
after the meeting. This goes through our

615
00:50:56,079 --> 00:51:04,240
minute taking. Um, there has to be an
audio recording in in its entirety. uh

616
00:51:01,440 --> 00:51:11,040
written minutes which constitute the the
official record and must include um the

617
00:51:07,920 --> 00:51:16,559
dates the members president uh substance
matter of of uh all proposed or

618
00:51:13,359 --> 00:51:21,839
discussed items a record of how each
individual member voted and we're not

619
00:51:20,640 --> 00:51:26,640
just bugging people to write their
names. There has to be uh the name of a

620
00:51:24,559 --> 00:51:30,720
person who provided testimony or
comments and a summary of their

621
00:51:27,920 --> 00:51:34,720
testimony or comments.
And then the minutes must be available

622
00:51:33,040 --> 00:51:38,400
within a reasonable time. That's a
little open, but once they're approved,

623
00:51:36,480 --> 00:51:42,400
it has to be posted to the Utah Public
Notice website within three business

624
00:51:40,800 --> 00:51:49,280
days.
What happens if a public body violates

625
00:51:45,520 --> 00:51:54,640
the Open Meetings Act? Um some big
things that could happen. A court could

626
00:51:51,599 --> 00:52:00,400
overturn any action that's taken in uh
in violation of of the public meetings

627
00:51:57,760 --> 00:52:05,200
act. Any person who intentionally
violates the public meetings act can be

628
00:52:02,559 --> 00:52:09,839
charged with a class B misdemeanor.
Um two big ones. We don't want those to

629
00:52:07,520 --> 00:52:15,280
happen. It is an intentional violation.
If if it's an accidental violation, it's

630
00:52:12,800 --> 00:52:22,160
still bad, but but uh it's not a class B
misdemeanor. Um, if we can fix mistakes,

631
00:52:19,680 --> 00:52:27,119
it's possible. It might well it probably
requires renoticing and redeliberating

632
00:52:24,400 --> 00:52:31,599
any particular item. As you can see
though, if you think through it the

633
00:52:29,839 --> 00:52:36,640
noticing requirements, we can we can
probably fix that way. Um, minute

634
00:52:33,839 --> 00:52:40,400
taking, we can probably fix that way.
The the one where you deliberate before

635
00:52:38,880 --> 00:52:43,040
a meeting, that's hard. How do we fix
that? We've already [clears throat]

636
00:52:41,520 --> 00:52:47,680
deliberated before the meeting. So
that's again kind of why I'm hitting

637
00:52:45,040 --> 00:52:52,880
that one as hard as I am.
So we're going to I won't read it again,

638
00:52:49,920 --> 00:52:56,319
but here it is just for as a refresher.
That's the rule. We're going to run

639
00:52:54,319 --> 00:53:01,520
through
a couple of scenarios and see what you

640
00:52:59,200 --> 00:53:04,640
think. Is it a violation? So there's a
ribbon cutting. Five commissioners

641
00:53:03,119 --> 00:53:08,319
attend the ribbon cutting at a new
doughnut shop. Their attendance was

642
00:53:06,559 --> 00:53:12,640
planned two weeks in advance, but no
public notice of their anticipated

643
00:53:10,720 --> 00:53:16,720
attendance was given.
While there, all five gathered together

644
00:53:15,040 --> 00:53:21,040
and debate whether cake donuts are
better than raised donuts. They split

645
00:53:18,640 --> 00:53:22,960
three to two in favor of cake donuts. Is
it a violation?

646
00:53:22,319 --> 00:53:27,760
» No.
>> No. No. They can talk whatever they want

647
00:53:25,440 --> 00:53:32,960
about cake donuts. That's not a relevant
matter. So, we're good.

648
00:53:30,160 --> 00:53:37,760
» Okay. Example two, social event. Four
commissioners are all invited to the

649
00:53:35,200 --> 00:53:42,559
same private picnic. The fact that the
four happen to be friends with the host

650
00:53:39,680 --> 00:53:47,040
is a total coincidence. While there, all
four gather and discuss a controversial

651
00:53:44,720 --> 00:53:50,480
reszone application. All four stating
that they plan to recommend against it.

652
00:53:48,880 --> 00:53:55,040
Is it a violation?
>> Yes.

653
00:53:50,960 --> 00:54:01,280
» Yeah, that's looking bad. Right. Right.
Example three, the reply. All I have a

654
00:53:58,480 --> 00:54:05,040
feeling I just as I was looking through
previous materials that probably some of

655
00:54:03,520 --> 00:54:11,359
you have heard this example before, but
here it is. Uh, city staff sends a an

656
00:54:08,079 --> 00:54:15,359
email packet. Um,
excuse me. City staff sends by email a

657
00:54:13,520 --> 00:54:20,880
packet to all the commissioners for the
next meeting. The agenda includes a

658
00:54:17,839 --> 00:54:24,400
controversial reszone application. One
commissioner hits reply all and

659
00:54:22,720 --> 00:54:28,640
expresses many concerns with the
proposal. Three other commissioners also

660
00:54:26,640 --> 00:54:31,839
hit reply all to express their concerns
with the proposal. Is that a violation?

661
00:54:31,280 --> 00:54:37,040
» Yes.
>> Yeah. Yeah, that's looking bad.

662
00:54:35,119 --> 00:54:42,800
Okay,
sorry. This one feels a lot like like

663
00:54:40,480 --> 00:54:48,319
you know those rotten crest questions
you'd get in school, but here it is.

664
00:54:45,440 --> 00:54:51,839
City staff sends an email similar uh
sends by email a similar meeting packet.

665
00:54:50,240 --> 00:54:58,160
So again, it's got a controversial
reason application on the agenda

666
00:54:54,960 --> 00:55:02,319
in a separate email. So, not reply all,
totally separate email. Commissioner A

667
00:55:00,240 --> 00:55:08,000
emails Commissioner B that he hates the
reason and wants uh to forward a

668
00:55:05,680 --> 00:55:13,119
negative recommendation.
In another separate email, Commissioner

669
00:55:10,079 --> 00:55:18,559
B emails Commissioner C and mentions
that she agrees with Commissioner A's

670
00:55:15,119 --> 00:55:23,520
concerns. In yet another separate email,
Commissioner C emails Commissioner D and

671
00:55:22,079 --> 00:55:26,559
mentions that she agrees with
Commissioner's A concern and

672
00:55:24,880 --> 00:55:30,000
Commissioner's B concern. So, none of
them like it, but they're not all

673
00:55:28,240 --> 00:55:36,400
talking together. It's sort of going
down the line. Commissioner D replies to

674
00:55:33,680 --> 00:55:41,920
Commissioner C that he likes the reason
and wants a favorable favorable

675
00:55:38,480 --> 00:55:47,280
recommendation. Is this a violation?
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, you can try to say

676
00:55:45,280 --> 00:55:49,280
you got one guy disagreeing. Is it? No.
I I think it is. I think they're

677
00:55:48,640 --> 00:55:55,559
deliberation.
>> Yeah. They're deliberating. Exactly.

678
00:55:51,200 --> 00:55:55,559
Exactly. Great. 100%.

679
00:55:55,603 --> 00:56:01,040
» [clears throat]
>> Rule of thumb for emails may seem

680
00:55:58,559 --> 00:56:05,040
obvious at this point, but uh as much as
possible, use emails only for scheduling

681
00:56:02,799 --> 00:56:08,400
and transmitting documents. Uh the more
this can be like a one-way

682
00:56:06,400 --> 00:56:12,400
communication, the better. And if you
can think in terms of any opinion on any

683
00:56:10,640 --> 00:56:16,160
agenda item, it's best reserved for the
microphone. You'll probably always be

684
00:56:14,480 --> 00:56:20,000
safe.
Um

685
00:56:18,079 --> 00:56:23,680
examples of safe transmitting
information one way, like here's the

686
00:56:22,000 --> 00:56:26,559
traffic study for the meeting. That's
fine. It's a little more dangerous

687
00:56:25,520 --> 00:56:31,680
voicing [clears throat] your opinion in
an email. I think the traffic study is

688
00:56:28,960 --> 00:56:36,000
wrong. I'm voting no. Um and then it's
definitely illegal to to just use it to

689
00:56:33,839 --> 00:56:39,680
predetermine. So if someone says, "Let's
kill this thing." And gets six thumbs

690
00:56:37,920 --> 00:56:45,680
up, yeah, you're out. That's definitely
bad.

691
00:56:42,160 --> 00:56:51,680
Um, there are times, again, maybe it's
my lack of of imagination

692
00:56:48,400 --> 00:56:55,359
or experience, but I I don't foresee the
planning commission having closed

693
00:56:52,880 --> 00:56:59,280
meetings, but it is in the it is in the
open meetings act. So, um, for all of

694
00:56:57,839 --> 00:57:03,680
you who are interested in what city
council does, they do close meetings

695
00:57:01,200 --> 00:57:07,839
sometimes. Um, when can a meeting be
closed to the public? Um,

696
00:57:06,480 --> 00:57:13,680
there's certain subject matter that's
allowed. um discussion of character or

697
00:57:10,319 --> 00:57:17,040
competence of an individual. Um B in
other words, these are personnel

698
00:57:14,720 --> 00:57:21,119
matters. This isn't like your the the
competence of your favorite celebrity or

699
00:57:19,119 --> 00:57:26,799
athlete or or anything like that. These
are personnel matters. Um also what's

700
00:57:23,520 --> 00:57:32,799
allowed strategy strategy strategy
strategy sessions to discuss a pending

701
00:57:29,760 --> 00:57:36,640
or imminent litigation and strategy
strategy sessions to discuss the

702
00:57:34,880 --> 00:57:40,404
purchase, exchange or lease of real
property. uh if public discussion would

703
00:57:39,119 --> 00:57:42,640
prevent getting the best terms.
[clears throat]

704
00:57:41,200 --> 00:57:46,960
These all kind of make sense if you
think about it. I mean, if if there's a

705
00:57:44,880 --> 00:57:51,680
bidding war and we're talking about
something in in public, we're not going

706
00:57:49,280 --> 00:57:55,839
to be able to get a good deal. If we're
getting sued and we're talking about it

707
00:57:53,119 --> 00:58:00,720
in public, the other side sees what
we're doing. Um but any final action

708
00:57:59,280 --> 00:58:05,040
still has to go back to a public
meeting. They can't vote on something in

709
00:58:03,200 --> 00:58:08,960
close meeting and have that be the final
decision on it. they got to take it back

710
00:58:06,400 --> 00:58:14,720
to the public meeting. Um, for example,
if if it is a a real estate purchase,

711
00:58:12,880 --> 00:58:19,119
they can talk about in closed meeting,
but to approve it, it's got to come back

712
00:58:16,160 --> 00:58:23,359
to the open meeting and be voted on.
And just procedurally, closed meetings

713
00:58:21,520 --> 00:58:26,880
have to be initiated by a motion in an
open meeting. They can't just start out

714
00:58:24,880 --> 00:58:30,559
in a closed meeting. And you have to say
why. You can't just say we I move for a

715
00:58:29,280 --> 00:58:36,880
closed meeting. It's going to be to
discuss litigation, to discuss

716
00:58:32,559 --> 00:58:40,960
personnel, to discuss both all. Um, and
there has to be a majority for in favor

717
00:58:39,359 --> 00:58:43,920
of closing the meeting. I actually
didn't know this till the other day and

718
00:58:42,480 --> 00:58:48,960
when I was reviewing it. It has to be a
twothirds majority. I've never seen

719
00:58:46,400 --> 00:58:53,040
anything other than unanimous, so I
never knew, but it has to be two-thirds

720
00:58:50,319 --> 00:59:00,240
majority. And the close meeting still is
recorded as well. Um,

721
00:58:56,960 --> 00:59:03,240
hopefully that was not too fast, but any
questions?

722
00:59:05,920 --> 00:59:10,960
» Okay,
>> pretty straightforward. [cough]

723
00:59:07,760 --> 00:59:15,440
» Great. Great. Well, having that having
said that, I'll move to

724
00:59:13,680 --> 00:59:20,400
uh
resolution 202601.

725
00:59:18,880 --> 00:59:25,920
Um,
as I stated, this started with uh some

726
00:59:23,200 --> 00:59:31,359
changes to the city council uh public
policy, public comment policy. Um, some

727
00:59:29,520 --> 00:59:37,040
issues that that we were seeing as city
staff were having to do with written

728
00:59:33,920 --> 00:59:42,880
comments and not being clear which rule
from the from the uh verbal comments

729
00:59:40,000 --> 00:59:48,000
applied to their written comments.
One big my memory is what sparked it is,

730
00:59:46,319 --> 00:59:53,680
you know, they have the the public
comment email address. Well, it was

731
00:59:50,960 --> 00:59:57,760
getting junk mail and the city recorder
said, "We can just ignore this, right?"

732
00:59:56,079 --> 01:00:02,960
And we kind of looked through what we
could point to to ignore it. And we

733
01:00:00,880 --> 01:00:08,079
figured we could, but we would feel
better if we made it more clear. So,

734
01:00:04,640 --> 01:00:15,280
that's part of what started it. Um, also
there there were some emails that were

735
01:00:12,240 --> 01:00:19,119
um came in later and and [clears throat]
this gets a little more complicated with

736
01:00:17,200 --> 01:00:24,000
with city council since they have an
open public comment period, not just

737
01:00:20,960 --> 01:00:30,880
hearings, but does it get read later? Is
it just disregarded? Um, so we hope to

738
01:00:27,520 --> 01:00:37,839
clarify that some of those with this.
Um, one issue is as we did point back to

739
01:00:33,839 --> 01:00:43,520
say all the rules um that apply to
verbal comments also apply to written

740
01:00:39,920 --> 01:00:49,359
comments. For example, if someone were
to email an anonymous written comment,

741
01:00:47,040 --> 01:00:55,760
the chair would have discretion to just
disregard it. Um really the the comment

742
01:00:52,559 --> 01:01:01,280
period including for public hearings is
um it it may be limited to residents and

743
01:00:59,440 --> 01:01:07,200
stakeholders and if you're getting
anonymous emails you don't know who that

744
01:01:03,680 --> 01:01:10,720
is. So it doesn't mean you have to but
um you [clears throat] you the chair

745
01:01:08,480 --> 01:01:18,480
would have the option to to disregard
those emails. Um, and also just general

746
01:01:14,000 --> 01:01:22,079
decorum. Um, just as someone uh can't
come up to the microphone and and be

747
01:01:20,480 --> 01:01:26,160
insulting or threatening or anything
like that, it's the same. If there's a

748
01:01:23,520 --> 01:01:31,119
threatening or insulting email that the
chair would have the option to disregard

749
01:01:28,240 --> 01:01:36,559
it. Um,
one other more housekeeping item that's

750
01:01:34,160 --> 01:01:42,240
that's in the first paragraph is is we
clarified that chair as used in this

751
01:01:39,359 --> 01:01:46,000
includes anyone lawfully uh presiding at
the meeting. So, in other words, vice

752
01:01:44,000 --> 01:01:51,359
chair. Everything still would apply to
vice chair. Um, I apologize I didn't do

753
01:01:48,720 --> 01:01:55,680
slides of of this as well, but it's in
your packet. Um, if you have any

754
01:01:53,599 --> 01:01:57,839
questions, I'd be happy to entertain
them.

755
01:01:56,400 --> 01:02:00,640
» Perfect. Let's bring this back to the
commission for questions. Hopefully

756
01:01:59,359 --> 01:02:05,200
everybody got a chance to read through
it. It's [clears throat] been a a

757
01:02:02,720 --> 01:02:09,440
discussion for quite a while actually. I
brought it up a couple years ago when I

758
01:02:07,119 --> 01:02:15,920
was chair and now we're getting some
solidification. So, I like it.

759
01:02:13,359 --> 01:02:18,400
» Any questions for staff comments,
concerns?

760
01:02:16,559 --> 01:02:21,760
» No, I'm just glad it's done.
>> Yeah,

761
01:02:18,960 --> 01:02:25,839
» I like the new time um when public
comment is due because then it really

762
01:02:24,079 --> 01:02:30,000
does get to us in a timely manner. I can
see when it was the 5:00 cut off, then

763
01:02:28,240 --> 01:02:35,359
staff didn't see it. We didn't get until
the next day and and oftent times you're

764
01:02:33,680 --> 01:02:37,440
reading it right before. So, I like
that.

765
01:02:36,079 --> 01:02:43,359
» Great. Great.
>> Yeah. I noticed too in there you've you

766
01:02:40,400 --> 01:02:47,520
explain in depth that uh freedom of
speech does exist, but if it's not

767
01:02:45,200 --> 01:02:52,160
pertaining to the agenda, then the chair
does have discretion to disregard those

768
01:02:49,760 --> 01:02:55,040
comments and ask them to step down.
>> We need to stay focused.

769
01:02:53,520 --> 01:02:59,920
» That That's correct. That's correct. And
and this is um the city does have the

770
01:02:57,920 --> 01:03:04,000
right this is a limited public forum and
and and the commission has the right to

771
01:03:02,480 --> 01:03:07,040
limit time, place, and manner of
comments. And yep,

772
01:03:05,680 --> 01:03:09,839
» and I think getting it writing is going
to help us out immensely. I mean, we

773
01:03:08,480 --> 01:03:13,040
haven't had an issue since I've sat on
this board, but um I think it'll help in

774
01:03:12,240 --> 01:03:16,040
the future. So,
>> right.

775
01:03:18,720 --> 01:03:24,880
» All right. Any other questions, comments
for staff? This does require a decision

776
01:03:22,240 --> 01:03:29,200
for us since this is our uh public
comments.

777
01:03:27,558 --> 01:03:32,200
[clears throat] So, I will entertain a
motion.

778
01:03:32,319 --> 01:03:37,520
» Chair, I'll make a motion.
>> Yes, Commissioner Proctor.

779
01:03:35,280 --> 01:03:44,000
» I move we accept the ordinance as
presented by Attorney Johnson.

780
01:03:40,960 --> 01:03:46,480
» Okay. I got a motion to approve the uh
public meeting

781
01:03:46,000 --> 01:03:49,884
» ordinance,
>> whatever numbers are [laughter]

782
01:03:50,160 --> 01:03:54,559
» as presented by Mr. Johnson. Do I have a
second?

783
01:03:53,599 --> 01:03:58,240
» I'll second.
>> I got two of them. Also, Commissioner

784
01:03:56,720 --> 01:04:02,920
Hammer.
Any discussion before we take this to a

785
01:03:59,920 --> 01:04:02,920
vote?

786
01:04:02,960 --> 01:04:05,680
All right. Commissioner Hammer,
>> I.

787
01:04:04,720 --> 01:04:07,119
» Commissioner Proctor,
>> I.

788
01:04:06,079 --> 01:04:08,400
» Commissioner Faircloth.
>> Hi.

789
01:04:07,440 --> 01:04:09,520
» Commissioner Lynford,
>> I.

790
01:04:08,720 --> 01:04:11,920
» Commissioner Anderson,
>> hi.

791
01:04:09,839 --> 01:04:16,720
» I am. Chairman Hamilton, I also vote I.
That one passes six to zero. Thank you.

792
01:04:13,839 --> 01:04:21,640
Appreciate that. All right. Number six
on our agenda tonight is our city

793
01:04:18,319 --> 01:04:21,640
council reports.

794
01:04:25,839 --> 01:04:29,760
» We won't make you shave your head yet,
y'all.

795
01:04:28,559 --> 01:04:33,200
» It's almost there.
>> You're going to let it do itself, huh?

796
01:04:31,280 --> 01:04:35,599
» Went from a forehead to a five head.
It's almost to a six.

797
01:04:34,400 --> 01:04:40,264
» Well, now you're [laughter] now you're a
city councilman. It's going to be gone.

798
01:04:37,039 --> 01:04:42,240
» Yeah. you know, look at my future.
[laughter]

799
01:04:41,200 --> 01:04:47,599
» We love you.
>> So, uh, well, since Chris isn't here

800
01:04:45,359 --> 01:04:51,359
tonight, everybody knows that, uh,
Commissioner Sloan loves racing, but I

801
01:04:49,920 --> 01:04:54,960
think the reason you like racing is
because, uh, you get to see the racks,

802
01:04:53,039 --> 01:04:59,680
right? That's the fun part.
>> I like tonight. I like that there was

803
01:04:56,720 --> 01:05:04,240
some discussion and and good comments
and the fact that not everybody just

804
01:05:02,319 --> 01:05:07,359
agrees blindly. So, I thought that was
really cool. So, I that's what I come

805
01:05:06,240 --> 01:05:11,680
for.
Andrew had me all excited when he was

806
01:05:09,200 --> 01:05:14,960
telling about Riverton and how they get
heated and everything. And so I've been

807
01:05:13,359 --> 01:05:19,039
waiting for one of those and everybody's
too nice. So [clears throat]

808
01:05:16,945 --> 01:05:24,640
[laughter] So I liked it. Uh we really
didn't have anything to that that was

809
01:05:21,680 --> 01:05:31,359
too wild and crazy uh last week. The one
thing that I did like uh was John Kra

810
01:05:28,079 --> 01:05:34,640
got up and gave the the quarterly report
for how things are going in the city.

811
01:05:32,799 --> 01:05:40,480
And I think that's it's really fun to
see the things that are coming, the

812
01:05:36,319 --> 01:05:44,240
things, you know, the vacancy rates, the
everything that he goes over. It shows

813
01:05:42,079 --> 01:05:48,240
that we're growing and and we're moving
kind of in the right direction. So, I

814
01:05:46,480 --> 01:05:51,200
liked everything that I heard. If
anybody had a chance to watch it, if

815
01:05:50,000 --> 01:05:55,920
not, go back and
>> and watch it. But, uh, it's interesting.

816
01:05:53,599 --> 01:05:59,839
It's fun to hear the you know, you're
watching the pieces of it, but it's fun

817
01:05:57,599 --> 01:06:04,720
to sit back at the end of the quarter
and go, "Oh, wow. That's That's pretty

818
01:06:01,839 --> 01:06:08,640
cool. But I don't have anything else,
but I appreciate you guys and thanks for

819
01:06:06,319 --> 01:06:14,480
all the time you put in and and for your
thoughtfulness and thinking about

820
01:06:11,119 --> 01:06:18,880
matters like this. You know, you too,
Kelly. I like that. So,

821
01:06:17,200 --> 01:06:23,119
» I can have a thought.
>> No, I I I greatly appreciate that, too.

822
01:06:21,039 --> 01:06:26,079
I'm glad Councilman Member Gossip
brought that up. It's almost taken a

823
01:06:24,559 --> 01:06:28,480
page out of Governor Cox's we can
disagree better. Yes,

824
01:06:27,359 --> 01:06:31,280
» we don't have to agree about everything,
but we can talk about our disagreements

825
01:06:29,920 --> 01:06:35,440
and we don't have to agree about
everything. We don't we can disagree and

826
01:06:33,760 --> 01:06:38,799
we can talk about it, but at the end
we're going to come to a solution and

827
01:06:36,960 --> 01:06:42,400
we're all going to get behind it and
we're going to do it. So, I love that

828
01:06:40,720 --> 01:06:46,880
about this commission. It's it's so work
awesome working with all of you guys.

829
01:06:44,880 --> 01:06:51,200
» Perfect. Thank you uh for those kind
words. Moves us on to number seven is a

830
01:06:48,720 --> 01:06:54,640
review a decision on our April 8, 2026
planning commission meeting minutes. Are

831
01:06:52,640 --> 01:06:58,720
there any additions or corrections to
those minutes? She already made the one

832
01:06:57,119 --> 01:07:06,079
correction I pointed out.
>> Perfect. I'll entertain a motion.

833
01:07:02,799 --> 01:07:08,880
» I move to approve the minutes from April
8th, 2026.

834
01:07:07,520 --> 01:07:11,839
» Got a motion to approve. Do I have a
second?

835
01:07:10,480 --> 01:07:15,920
» I'll second.
>> I've never seconded.

836
01:07:13,039 --> 01:07:19,039
» There you go. And a second. I got a
first from Commissioner Hammer and a

837
01:07:17,359 --> 01:07:22,400
second from Commissioner Faircloth. Any
discussion?

838
01:07:21,119 --> 01:07:23,520
» Commissioner Hammer, how do you vote?
>> I.

839
01:07:22,640 --> 01:07:24,720
» Commissioner Proctor.
>> I.

840
01:07:23,920 --> 01:07:26,160
» Commissioner Faircloth.
>> Hi. Commissioner Lynford.

841
01:07:25,839 --> 01:07:27,280
» Hi.
>> Commissioner Anderson.

842
01:07:26,960 --> 01:07:31,680
» Hi.
>> I am Chairman Hamilton. I also vote I.

843
01:07:29,359 --> 01:07:37,119
That one passes six to zero.
>> Now, um I'm going [clears throat] to

844
01:07:34,480 --> 01:07:40,240
jump ahead a little bit um because we'd
like to excuse the minutes taker. If

845
01:07:38,720 --> 01:07:43,520
she'd like to leave, she can leave while
we do training, but you don't have to.

846
01:07:42,240 --> 01:07:47,359
You're welcome to stay and hang out with
us. Uh but other than that, we've got

847
01:07:45,680 --> 01:07:50,960
some training here. Some conditional use
permits, which I think is very vital to

848
01:07:49,520 --> 01:07:55,520
what we do. We do a lot of it.
>> Question for you, chairman. Do you want

849
01:07:52,720 --> 01:07:57,520
to do you want to adjourn the meeting
>> or do you want to wait till after

850
01:07:56,720 --> 01:08:00,319
training to adjourn?
>> That's a good question. Should we go

851
01:07:58,880 --> 01:08:03,200
ahead and just adjurnn and then move to
training?

852
01:08:01,039 --> 01:08:05,839
» I I would move that we adjourn first
because I'm going to have to miss

853
01:08:04,559 --> 01:08:08,000
tonight's training myself.
>> Okay, I'll entertain a motion to

854
01:08:07,200 --> 01:08:10,880
adjurnn.
>> I'll make that motion.

855
01:08:09,039 --> 01:08:14,240
» Okay, Commissioner Fair or Lynford and
I'll second. We'll go ahead and adjurnn.

856
01:08:12,640 --> 01:08:20,080
Uh those that don't need to stake can
leave and we'll go move into training.

857
01:08:17,440 --> 01:08:22,319
» Well, as the commission is aware, we are
requ

858
01:08:20,560 --> 01:08:27,040
» I have one question. Did the public
meeting training that the attorney did,

859
01:08:25,120 --> 01:08:31,839
does that count as a training also?
>> So Matt and I have tag team tonight. Our

860
01:08:29,679 --> 01:08:36,239
hope is to get you one hour. So a half
an hour in open meetings and then a half

861
01:08:33,839 --> 01:08:40,640
an hour on my conditional use. So
>> perfect. Thank you.

862
01:08:38,080 --> 01:08:45,520
» Do I keep streaming or no?
>> Yes.

863
01:08:41,759 --> 01:08:50,640
» Yeah. So you are aware that state law
requires the planning commission receive

864
01:08:47,359 --> 01:08:56,000
four hours of training every year.
One of those hours can be attending 12

865
01:08:52,880 --> 01:09:01,199
meetings and then you can also obtain
your own training or you can let staff

866
01:08:58,319 --> 01:09:07,839
give you some training and fulfill that
those hours in that manner. Um I like to

867
01:09:05,759 --> 01:09:11,440
give specific trainings that are related
to what you do exactly as a planning

868
01:09:09,920 --> 01:09:14,880
commission.
So, for those of you that have been on

869
01:09:12,960 --> 01:09:18,080
the commission for a while, you've you
do a really good job with conditional

870
01:09:16,480 --> 01:09:22,719
uses, but it's always good to have a
refresher course on what conditional

871
01:09:20,719 --> 01:09:28,560
uses are and how we handle them because
really that's the majority of what you

872
01:09:25,279 --> 01:09:33,279
approve is conditional uses. Uh for the
commissioners that are new, this is a a

873
01:09:31,040 --> 01:09:37,440
good course for you to understand uh
your role and your authority in regards

874
01:09:35,120 --> 01:09:44,600
to conditional uses.
So to start,

875
01:09:40,000 --> 01:09:44,600
what is a conditional use?

876
01:09:44,799 --> 01:09:48,600
How do we define them?

877
01:09:50,080 --> 01:09:53,480
Mr. Anderson

878
01:09:54,719 --> 01:10:05,120
um things that nor don't normally take
place in a zone but can be permitted. is

879
01:10:02,320 --> 01:10:10,960
based on whatever conditions the the
planning commission or whomever the

880
01:10:07,600 --> 01:10:16,560
regulatory body is puts on that use.
Okay. Excellent.

881
01:10:14,080 --> 01:10:20,400
So this is what we define a conditional
use and Commissioner Anderson is right

882
01:10:18,080 --> 01:10:24,400
in line with our definition. A
conditional use is a permissible use

883
01:10:22,560 --> 01:10:31,040
upon which the approval authority has
the opportunity to assign conditions to

884
01:10:27,520 --> 01:10:35,679
mitigate specific potential impacts onto
adjacent properties. That's the whole

885
01:10:33,600 --> 01:10:40,640
purpose of a conditional use is to
identify potential problems and try to

886
01:10:38,800 --> 01:10:45,840
resolve those with conditions of
approval.

887
01:10:42,800 --> 01:10:50,159
uh you guys have had one just at your
last meeting with auto repair business

888
01:10:47,600 --> 01:10:54,800
and you attach conditions to it to try
and mitigate potential impacts. That's

889
01:10:51,920 --> 01:10:59,159
that's the purpose of what we're doing.
>> What does permissible mean?

890
01:11:01,199 --> 01:11:08,560
» It's allowed permitted
>> but it's not something that's

891
01:11:06,480 --> 01:11:14,000
it's allowed but it has to be approved.
>> Yeah, exactly. I couldn't say it any

892
01:11:11,679 --> 01:11:20,159
better than that. So,
how are conditional uses determined?

893
01:11:18,239 --> 01:11:23,840
» Based upon the use that the applicant
wants to

894
01:11:22,000 --> 01:11:26,719
do in that area.
>> Okay. Who who establishes conditional

895
01:11:25,679 --> 01:11:30,640
use?
>> Council.

896
01:11:27,280 --> 01:11:35,120
» The city council does. Okay. Conditional
uses are established by the city council

897
01:11:32,719 --> 01:11:40,080
during the legislative process of
establishing zoning districts and the

898
01:11:37,120 --> 01:11:45,440
types of land uses that can occur within
those zoning districts. The city council

899
01:11:42,880 --> 01:11:50,719
also decides which uses are conditional
and or permitted. So what that means is

900
01:11:48,800 --> 01:11:56,960
when
you don't want a use to occur in a

901
01:11:53,360 --> 01:12:01,679
particular zone, the time to prohibit
that use in that zone is not during the

902
01:11:59,120 --> 01:12:05,520
conditional use permit, but during the
time when the council is ratifying that

903
01:12:03,440 --> 01:12:09,280
zoning ordinance.
You will often encounter members of the

904
01:12:08,000 --> 01:12:13,920
public who will come to the planning
commission is I want you to deny this

905
01:12:11,440 --> 01:12:19,280
doesn't belong in this area.
that doesn't matter. Once the zoning

906
01:12:16,159 --> 01:12:25,199
ordinance permits a use, it is permitted
in that zone. So, those kind of comments

907
01:12:22,640 --> 01:12:29,679
really are irrelevant to a a planning
commission's decision on a conditional

908
01:12:27,600 --> 01:12:34,159
use permit. The zoning code already
allows it. They can do it in the zone.

909
01:12:31,679 --> 01:12:38,000
Period. We are trying to find how does
this impact the adjacent properties and

910
01:12:35,920 --> 01:12:41,120
how can we correct that. So, just be
aware. You will get those comments quite

911
01:12:39,520 --> 01:12:46,320
a bit. We need you I want you guys to
deny this. No, zoning code allows it.

912
01:12:44,320 --> 01:12:52,520
That's not up for discussion tonight.
Okay.

913
01:12:48,320 --> 01:12:52,520
Utah State Code 10-9A-507.

914
01:12:53,280 --> 01:13:00,400
A legislative body shall classify any
use that a land use regulation allows in

915
01:12:58,080 --> 01:13:06,159
a zoning district as either permitted or
a conditional use. So, state law also in

916
01:13:03,840 --> 01:13:11,760
requires the city council to establish
permitted and conditional uses.

917
01:13:09,360 --> 01:13:15,120
So, we have conditional uses in our
residential zoning districts. I

918
01:13:13,280 --> 01:13:19,360
apologize if that's not very legible,
but I just wanted to throw the chart up

919
01:13:16,560 --> 01:13:24,719
there for your reference. This is our
list of uses for our residential zones.

920
01:13:22,480 --> 01:13:28,159
So, we have various uses in residential
zones, and some of those uses are

921
01:13:26,159 --> 01:13:32,000
permitted, some of those uses are
conditional, and some of those are not

922
01:13:29,600 --> 01:13:36,880
permitted at all. If there's not a P or
a C in the chart, that is not a use that

923
01:13:34,960 --> 01:13:42,560
can occur. You'll note that mobile home
parks and subdivisions are not permitted

924
01:13:38,880 --> 01:13:45,840
in any zoning district. So, somebody
can't come in with a chunk of land and

925
01:13:44,159 --> 01:13:50,400
say, "I want to build a mobile home
park." It's not on the list. It's not

926
01:13:47,920 --> 01:13:54,480
approved. You can't do that. So, that's
how we determine residential uses. If

927
01:13:52,719 --> 01:13:59,280
they come in and they say, "I want to
build a

928
01:13:56,480 --> 01:14:05,120
um a golf course and a country club in
an R110 zone," you can see that that is

929
01:14:02,000 --> 01:14:09,440
conditional in the R110 zone. So they
could do a golf course and a country

930
01:14:06,880 --> 01:14:12,320
club in an R110 zoning district, but
they have to come to the planning

931
01:14:10,640 --> 01:14:16,560
commission to discuss how they're going
to prevent all those stray golf balls

932
01:14:14,000 --> 01:14:22,480
from taking out people's windows. Okay,
so that's how our residential ordinance

933
01:14:18,800 --> 01:14:26,480
works in regards to conditional uses.
Commercial zones are very similar to

934
01:14:24,719 --> 01:14:32,800
residential zones in regards to we
establish the use and then we look at

935
01:14:30,480 --> 01:14:37,600
the chart to see if that use is
conditional or permitted. Till city has

936
01:14:35,440 --> 01:14:42,560
a very expansive list of commercial
uses. This is only the first 10 or so

937
01:14:40,000 --> 01:14:47,280
uses on our list. But if someone comes
in to Anna and they say, ' Anna, I want

938
01:14:44,239 --> 01:14:51,199
to build an auto impound yard in this
property next to my house and it's zone

939
01:14:48,960 --> 01:14:54,159
neighborhood commercial,
Anna's going to look at that list and

940
01:14:52,880 --> 01:14:58,960
she's going to see, okay, there's
nothing there. It is not permitted. You

941
01:14:56,320 --> 01:15:03,199
cannot do that in that zone. But if
they're next door to a piece of property

942
01:15:00,480 --> 01:15:08,640
that zoned industrial service,
can they build an auto impound yard?

943
01:15:06,000 --> 01:15:10,880
Absolutely. It's it's conditional. But
then they're going to come to the

944
01:15:09,600 --> 01:15:14,159
planning commission. planning commission
is going to say, "Well, you're storing

945
01:15:12,159 --> 01:15:16,960
wrecked vehicles. How you going to
prevent people from looking at it?

946
01:15:15,600 --> 01:15:22,800
You're going to assign conditions to
mitigate that." Okay? So, that's how we

947
01:15:19,360 --> 01:15:26,880
establish and and uh govern our uses in
both residential and conditional zones.

948
01:15:24,800 --> 01:15:32,239
Now, this list and the previous list is
all established by our friendly city

949
01:15:30,159 --> 01:15:35,360
council members.
Does the planning commission ever have

950
01:15:33,600 --> 01:15:39,840
an opportunity to weigh in on these
uses,

951
01:15:37,360 --> 01:15:42,880
these use lists?
Yes.

952
01:15:40,880 --> 01:15:48,800
» Yes, you do. So, if we ever go through a
a a code amendment where we revise or

953
01:15:45,600 --> 01:15:52,640
add uses to a list, planning commission
will have the opportunity to make a

954
01:15:50,239 --> 01:15:57,840
recommendation to the city council. So,
you do get involved in the establishment

955
01:15:54,480 --> 01:16:02,880
of these things as well.
Are conditional use applications

956
01:15:59,679 --> 01:16:06,000
administrative or legislative reviews?
>> Administrative.

957
01:16:03,920 --> 01:16:09,520
» They are administrative. Okay. So
everything, all the legislative, all the

958
01:16:08,159 --> 01:16:13,600
parameters of the code have been
established by the council. It's your

959
01:16:11,840 --> 01:16:19,440
job as the commission to make sure that
it complies with those standards.

960
01:16:17,679 --> 01:16:23,080
Um,
I already done that.

961
01:16:23,199 --> 01:16:30,000
Okay. The review and approval of a
conditional use hinges on the

962
01:16:26,800 --> 01:16:34,719
satisfaction of the substantial evidence
test. Now, what makes substantial

963
01:16:32,800 --> 01:16:39,040
evidence?
This is a quote from my predecessor, Mr.

964
01:16:36,560 --> 01:16:42,719
Jim Bolzer. Those you guys, those of you
that remember Jim know that he was a

965
01:16:40,880 --> 01:16:47,520
very eloquent individual and had a lot
of big words. I love this one. The

966
01:16:44,960 --> 01:16:52,159
quantum and quantity
of evidence on the record sufficient to

967
01:16:49,840 --> 01:16:57,440
convince a reasonable mind to support
conclusion. By the way, I missed Jim.

968
01:16:53,840 --> 01:17:02,880
So, um I'm not sure what quantum means,
but I think it has reference to quality.

969
01:16:59,768 --> 01:17:06,239
[snorts] Okay. So, in a meeting when you
receive public comment on a

970
01:17:04,480 --> 01:17:10,400
controversial conditional use permit
issue,

971
01:17:07,760 --> 01:17:15,920
um, you want to weigh the quality and
the quantity of evidence on the record

972
01:17:13,280 --> 01:17:20,719
of a potential impact and you want to
make sure that you clarify that and

973
01:17:17,760 --> 01:17:26,960
voice that into your into your motions
and into your findings of fact.

974
01:17:24,719 --> 01:17:34,000
» Can a complete application for a
conditional use permit be denied? No.

975
01:17:31,199 --> 01:17:37,280
» If there are extenduating circumstances
that safety then yes that we cannot

976
01:17:36,719 --> 01:17:42,960
mitigate
>> that we cannot mitigate.

977
01:17:38,560 --> 01:17:46,800
» Exactly. Ex spot on. We are you are as a
commission obligated to approve

978
01:17:44,560 --> 01:17:52,480
conditional use permits.
Um you can establish conditions that

979
01:17:50,000 --> 01:17:57,679
would be pretty ownorous to satisfy if
you have evidence that you that that

980
01:17:54,719 --> 01:18:02,480
condition mitigates a problem. For
example, someone wants to build a sewer

981
01:17:59,920 --> 01:18:06,400
plant next to a residential zone and you
put a condition. You need to build a 100

982
01:18:04,239 --> 01:18:10,239
foot tall wall.
If you believe that that is going to

983
01:18:08,080 --> 01:18:15,360
mitigate the problem, that could be a
condition. Can they meet that condition?

984
01:18:13,360 --> 01:18:18,640
Probably not.
Okay. [laughter]

985
01:18:17,040 --> 01:18:22,480
» No, because our highest structure is
only 19.

986
01:18:19,440 --> 01:18:28,719
» Exactly. So, in some situations, a
denial is just as effective as putting a

987
01:18:26,320 --> 01:18:35,280
condition on an applicant that can't be
met. Um, however, I strongly emphasize

988
01:18:32,480 --> 01:18:39,679
that it's not good to deny a conditional
use permit. You are obligated to approve

989
01:18:37,440 --> 01:18:43,840
it and you're obligated to establish
conditions that they that will mitigate

990
01:18:41,440 --> 01:18:47,760
a problem, but sometimes it can't be
done.

991
01:18:45,120 --> 01:18:52,159
I have seen you guys deny one
conditional use permit in my eight years

992
01:18:49,679 --> 01:18:55,199
here at city. For those of you that have
been on the commission for a while, do

993
01:18:53,120 --> 01:18:57,679
you remember which one it was?
>> Tyson,

994
01:18:56,480 --> 01:19:00,640
» tell us about it. It
>> was over here in this Well, there's two

995
01:18:59,440 --> 01:19:04,400
of them actually that I remember. One of
them was the trucking company over here

996
01:19:02,080 --> 01:19:07,360
because the inadequacy of the road over
there and the other one was over here,

997
01:19:05,920 --> 01:19:12,159
this Allen Lid building. It was the
applicant did not suffice his previous

998
01:19:10,239 --> 01:19:15,760
conditional use. So, we denied the
second one. He could not Yeah. So, we're

999
01:19:14,640 --> 01:19:18,880
not going to give you a second one if
you can't comply with the first one. So,

1000
01:19:17,600 --> 01:19:22,080
there was two that I know of.
>> So, the one that the truck driving one

1001
01:19:20,560 --> 01:19:25,760
is the one that comes to my mind. I
remember you you guys deliberated that

1002
01:19:24,080 --> 01:19:31,199
quite a bit.
um you you established the fact that in

1003
01:19:28,960 --> 01:19:35,520
order to accommodate the safety of a
truck driving school on that unimproved

1004
01:19:33,120 --> 01:19:39,760
road that they would have to improve
that road being Flender's Way and 1280

1005
01:19:38,080 --> 01:19:45,520
North that was going to require road
widening, a signal modification at the

1006
01:19:42,800 --> 01:19:49,600
intersection of Main Street. And I
remember Chris Sloan saying they're not

1007
01:19:46,960 --> 01:19:54,719
going to do that. We need to deny this.
Um you could have also just slapped

1008
01:19:51,920 --> 01:19:58,480
those conditions on there as well. But
uh just show your information that you

1009
01:19:56,640 --> 01:20:02,760
are obligated as a commission to to
approve your conditional use permits.

1010
01:20:04,080 --> 01:20:10,320
Utah case law has established that the
burden of the land use authority is to

1011
01:20:08,080 --> 01:20:15,600
identify potential detrimental impacts
to adjacent properties and set specific

1012
01:20:13,440 --> 01:20:22,560
conditions to mitigate those detrimental
impacts. Okay? So your conditions have

1013
01:20:18,800 --> 01:20:26,560
to be established to mitigate a problem.
So, if you don't like a particular CUP

1014
01:20:25,360 --> 01:20:31,920
that's coming in, let's say you don't
like that sewer plant and [snorts]

1015
01:20:29,920 --> 01:20:37,840
well, where am I going with this? You
can't you can't set you can't set

1016
01:20:34,640 --> 01:20:41,440
unreasonable conditions just because you
don't like a particular use. That's

1017
01:20:40,239 --> 01:20:47,840
where I'm going with that. Your
conditions have to be addressed to solve

1018
01:20:43,679 --> 01:20:52,560
a to resolve a problem. Okay?
It is the applicant's burden to comply

1019
01:20:50,239 --> 01:20:56,480
with those conditions. So if you set
those conditions, the applicant has to

1020
01:20:54,320 --> 01:21:00,400
comply. They don't want to comply, then
they don't get their business license or

1021
01:20:57,920 --> 01:21:05,679
their conditional use permit. So when
you set those conditions, they have to

1022
01:21:01,920 --> 01:21:08,640
get they have to follow that through.
Why does the applica why does the

1023
01:21:07,440 --> 01:21:12,800
planning commission deal with
conditional use permit applications? Why

1024
01:21:10,800 --> 01:21:16,960
not the city council and why not or why
not both?

1025
01:21:14,560 --> 01:21:20,880
» Because the city council delegated it to
us.

1026
01:21:18,159 --> 01:21:25,840
» Exactly. city council sets the law and
you guys have the responsibility to

1027
01:21:22,560 --> 01:21:29,760
enforce it and to uphold it. So, um the
state has really been cracking down on

1028
01:21:27,679 --> 01:21:33,520
on city councils and what they can and
cannot be involved in. Uh when I started

1029
01:21:32,000 --> 01:21:38,640
here, the city council heard
subdivisions. Every subdivision went to

1030
01:21:35,760 --> 01:21:42,159
the city council and recently the state
told the city councils, "You cannot do

1031
01:21:40,480 --> 01:21:46,239
that." And so, we had to revise our
code. Uh what the state is doing is

1032
01:21:44,640 --> 01:21:50,000
they're trying to keep the city council
strictly legislative and uh keep them

1033
01:21:48,400 --> 01:21:53,520
out of the administrative [snorts]
responsibilities.

1034
01:21:51,520 --> 01:21:56,400
Um some cities and counties comply with
that, some don't, but uh everybody's

1035
01:21:55,360 --> 01:22:01,280
getting to that point where they're
going to have to.

1036
01:21:59,280 --> 01:22:05,120
Once the city council establishes the
code, the planning commission's

1037
01:22:02,560 --> 01:22:10,159
responsibility is to execute the code.
And then to city code 7-5-3

1038
01:22:08,320 --> 01:22:14,639
specifies the planning commission is the
approval authority over conditional use

1039
01:22:12,400 --> 01:22:19,199
permits.
So the conditional use permit process.

1040
01:22:17,040 --> 01:22:23,440
How do we process a conditional use
permit? So first of all, they're going

1041
01:22:22,000 --> 01:22:27,360
to [snorts] call Anna, our city planner,
and they're going to ask her if they can

1042
01:22:24,639 --> 01:22:33,280
do a specific use in a zone. If Anna
determines that it requires a cup, they

1043
01:22:29,440 --> 01:22:38,639
submit an application to our department.
have got some images of the application.

1044
01:22:35,600 --> 01:22:43,199
The application includes a checklist.
Our checklist usually in includes the

1045
01:22:40,719 --> 01:22:46,960
application includes the noticing
documents to to meet all the noticing

1046
01:22:45,280 --> 01:22:52,080
requirements.
Um usually a site plan or some other

1047
01:22:49,600 --> 01:22:55,920
traffic plan if it's related or any
other pertinent data or that would be in

1048
01:22:54,560 --> 01:23:01,120
that would help the planning commission
in making their uh decision on the

1049
01:22:58,719 --> 01:23:06,800
conditional use permit.
We are required to send out notices

1050
01:23:04,639 --> 01:23:11,199
for the public meeting. So we are
required to mail notices 10 days prior

1051
01:23:09,360 --> 01:23:17,280
to the meeting apprising them of the
hearing, the location and what is being

1052
01:23:14,239 --> 01:23:20,960
asked. And we are also required to post
the notices at the city hall state

1053
01:23:19,440 --> 01:23:25,520
website
and um we mail those notices to all

1054
01:23:23,679 --> 01:23:29,280
property owners within 200 feet of the
subject property. So, anytime you have a

1055
01:23:27,840 --> 01:23:34,320
public hearing, we've had to go through
those notices, make sure that everybody

1056
01:23:31,440 --> 01:23:39,600
within that proximity has been properly
um aware of made no properly made aware

1057
01:23:36,639 --> 01:23:44,800
of the of the meeting.
Our public notices usually are just one

1058
01:23:41,840 --> 01:23:48,159
sheet of paper that include the date and
time of the meeting as well as the

1059
01:23:46,480 --> 01:23:53,920
location.
and uh we will often put a map

1060
01:23:51,040 --> 01:23:58,320
identifying the particular property
and um that's what we send to the

1061
01:23:56,639 --> 01:24:04,639
applicant. We try to put as much
information as we can in the notices um

1062
01:24:01,840 --> 01:24:08,320
but also make sure the notices are quick
and easy to read is we found that if

1063
01:24:06,800 --> 01:24:11,320
they're too long, people don't read
them.

1064
01:24:12,960 --> 01:24:18,639
» Staff reports. You're familiar with our
staff reports. Whenever we have a

1065
01:24:16,560 --> 01:24:24,560
conditional use permit, the city planner
or or the director will write up a staff

1066
01:24:21,760 --> 01:24:28,560
report and we send that report to you on
the Fridays before the meeting. Our

1067
01:24:26,719 --> 01:24:33,199
staff reports include facts about the
subject property, descriptions of the

1068
01:24:30,320 --> 01:24:37,199
issues involved, staff's identification
of potential issues, staff's

1069
01:24:35,120 --> 01:24:42,080
identification of conditions, and
staff's recommendations. We also like to

1070
01:24:39,360 --> 01:24:47,120
throw in their maps and plans and model
motions, all for your reference and use.

1071
01:24:47,280 --> 01:24:54,400
And then during the public hearing, we
have a staff presentation. Applicant

1072
01:24:51,920 --> 01:24:57,679
presentation if needed or requested.
Public comment is taken. Planning

1073
01:24:56,320 --> 01:25:01,600
commission likes to have the applicant
presentation after the public comment

1074
01:24:59,440 --> 01:25:03,600
period. It's entirely up to you guys.
There's nothing that says otherwise.

1075
01:25:02,509 --> 01:25:06,639
[clears throat]
And then the public hearing is closed

1076
01:25:05,120 --> 01:25:14,239
and the planning commission deliberates
and and makes a decision on the cup.

1077
01:25:11,679 --> 01:25:18,560
Planning Commission decision
um includes discussion impacts

1078
01:25:16,400 --> 01:25:24,320
identified conditions determined motions
and vote. Uh we need to emphasize that

1079
01:25:21,280 --> 01:25:30,560
when you make a condition that you need
to identify the impact. So if you're

1080
01:25:26,719 --> 01:25:36,560
going to require a 100 foot tall fence,
how does that mitigate the impact? And

1081
01:25:34,239 --> 01:25:40,480
uh you guys are pretty good about doing
that. Commissioner Hamilton always reads

1082
01:25:39,040 --> 01:25:44,080
that into the motion when you when you
have a complicated matter. So, keep

1083
01:25:42,480 --> 01:25:48,639
doing that. That's very important
important. We always have to identify

1084
01:25:46,159 --> 01:25:52,159
those impacts.
Uh written notification. Once you

1085
01:25:50,320 --> 01:25:56,320
approve a conditional use permit, staff
prepares an official approval letter

1086
01:25:54,719 --> 01:26:02,000
including the date of the decision and
the conditions of approval. Uh and then

1087
01:25:59,920 --> 01:26:07,199
we mail that to the applicant and that's
their formal approval.

1088
01:26:05,280 --> 01:26:14,480
Conditional use permits are good for one
year if they don't take any action. So

1089
01:26:11,360 --> 01:26:18,239
to city code 7-5-4, prior to approving
or denying a conditional use permit

1090
01:26:16,000 --> 01:26:22,320
application, the planning commission
make in the public in the business at

1091
01:26:20,480 --> 01:26:25,840
which the public hearing is conducted a
findings of fact. So again, the findings

1092
01:26:24,719 --> 01:26:30,320
of fact are needed when you're going to
make a condition of approval.

1093
01:26:28,719 --> 01:26:34,159
Findings of fact should have the
reasonably anticipated detrimental

1094
01:26:32,320 --> 01:26:38,239
effects of the proposed use on an
adjacent property.

1095
01:26:36,320 --> 01:26:43,199
Evidence identified of the reasonably
anticipated detrimental impacts.

1096
01:26:40,960 --> 01:26:48,400
Reasonable conditions imposed intended
to mitigate detrimental impacts. Reasons

1097
01:26:46,320 --> 01:26:53,440
why conditions are imposed and how they
hope to mitigate impacts and evidence

1098
01:26:51,120 --> 01:26:57,520
that conditions will resolve those
impacts. So, there's quite a bit that

1099
01:26:55,360 --> 01:27:02,480
you'll have to you have to remember when
you're when you're slapping conditions

1100
01:26:58,880 --> 01:27:06,800
on a conditional use permit.
Question for you is the planning

1101
01:27:04,560 --> 01:27:11,600
commission obligated to follow staff's
recommendation, conditions of approval,

1102
01:27:09,280 --> 01:27:17,040
etc.
No, you are not. Okay? When it comes to

1103
01:27:14,480 --> 01:27:20,400
a conditional use permit, staff is a
resource and we give you

1104
01:27:18,880 --> 01:27:24,560
recommendations,
but you are the decision authority. So

1105
01:27:22,800 --> 01:27:30,679
you can you can make those decisions
however you feel like regardless of what

1106
01:27:27,120 --> 01:27:30,679
staff is recommending.

1107
01:27:30,960 --> 01:27:36,239
Question for you. Who is responsible to
see that a conditional use permit and

1108
01:27:34,639 --> 01:27:39,239
its conditions are upheld by the
applicant?

1109
01:27:39,840 --> 01:27:48,480
» That's my job. Okay? That's [snorts] me.
Okay? You guys do not have to do that.

1110
01:27:46,080 --> 01:27:53,440
Um, now you can make staff aware if you
see a conditional use permit that's in

1111
01:27:50,239 --> 01:27:59,520
violation. Um, that has happened and I I
encourage that. But when it comes to

1112
01:27:56,159 --> 01:28:05,199
enforcing that, uh, that is my job. I am
specifically mentioned in the ordinance

1113
01:28:01,360 --> 01:28:10,159
as the the authority to do that.
Um, same question here. Who's

1114
01:28:07,360 --> 01:28:14,000
responsible to um, enforce it when
they're in violation of the conditions?

1115
01:28:11,760 --> 01:28:20,080
Uh, that's me. That's not the city
planner. Um, it's not Paul. It's not the

1116
01:28:17,040 --> 01:28:23,600
code enforcement officer. It's me.
We We recently had one where we had to

1117
01:28:22,239 --> 01:28:28,320
go into some enforcement. Do you guys
remember what it was?

1118
01:28:25,920 --> 01:28:31,280
» The reflective lights or reflective
strips.

1119
01:28:29,360 --> 01:28:34,960
» Yep. Yep. The uh the little coffee shop
down there in front of cow ranch. They

1120
01:28:34,076 --> 01:28:40,320
[clears throat and cough] they had put
little bike reflectors at the top and I

1121
01:28:36,880 --> 01:28:44,000
guess those had fallen off and uh we had
to I had to make sure that they they

1122
01:28:42,400 --> 01:28:49,120
addressed the issue and put the pro the
appropriate reflection materials on the

1123
01:28:46,800 --> 01:28:53,760
building. So it does happen from time to
time. We are currently in the process of

1124
01:28:50,800 --> 01:28:56,880
enforcing another cup that you recently
approved. It was the auto repair

1125
01:28:55,360 --> 01:29:01,679
business just north of city hall on
Garden Street. Um, they are now in the

1126
01:29:00,080 --> 01:29:06,000
process of putting up their fence and
bringing in some paving, but we've had

1127
01:29:03,600 --> 01:29:11,120
to send them some notices. So, I'm the
one that has the pleasure of enforcing

1128
01:29:07,440 --> 01:29:15,199
your conditions. So, thank you.
>> Can the planning commission revoke a

1129
01:29:13,280 --> 01:29:17,040
conditional use permit?
>> Yes.

1130
01:29:15,679 --> 01:29:22,400
» Yes.
>> The planning commission

1131
01:29:19,520 --> 01:29:29,600
can revoke a condition a conditional use
permit only when staff brings it back to

1132
01:29:25,520 --> 01:29:32,880
you for a hearing. Okay. So,
can the planning commission amend a

1133
01:29:31,199 --> 01:29:35,520
previously approved conditional use
permit?

1134
01:29:34,880 --> 01:29:38,639
» Yes.
>> Would that be the same situation?

1135
01:29:36,880 --> 01:29:41,520
» Same situation. Staff has to bring it to
us.

1136
01:29:39,040 --> 01:29:46,159
» Yep. It has to be appropriately noticed
as a meeting and so forth, but you can

1137
01:29:43,600 --> 01:29:50,639
amend a previously approved conditional
use permit.

1138
01:29:48,960 --> 01:29:54,080
Can the planning commission establish
impossible conditions if they are

1139
01:29:52,239 --> 01:30:00,000
opposed to a proposed use to prevent it
from locating on a particular location?

1140
01:29:58,480 --> 01:30:05,040
I don't recommend it.
>> Not for the fun of it. No. [laughter]

1141
01:30:03,120 --> 01:30:07,440
» Could get us into legal trouble down the
road.

1142
01:30:06,000 --> 01:30:09,052
» Mr. Johnson would have some words about
that.

1143
01:30:07,679 --> 01:30:12,480
» Mr. Johnson would have fun with that.
[laughter]

1144
01:30:10,719 --> 01:30:14,639
Can the planning commission table or
continue a conditional use permit

1145
01:30:14,159 --> 01:30:17,760
request?
>> Yes. Yes,

1146
01:30:15,440 --> 01:30:23,440
» absolutely. In fact, that's a tool that
that I recommend that you use. Um, if

1147
01:30:21,760 --> 01:30:28,000
you're lacking information to make a
decision, table it. But make sure that

1148
01:30:26,320 --> 01:30:32,639
when you table a conditional use permit
that you do so either time-sp specific

1149
01:30:30,639 --> 01:30:37,360
or
>> action specific. Okay. So, give the

1150
01:30:34,639 --> 01:30:44,239
applicant some clear understanding of
what you need. Um, is there can you

1151
01:30:40,159 --> 01:30:47,840
table it too many times?
>> Not really. Really. There's nothing that

1152
01:30:46,080 --> 01:30:52,320
says you can't table an item too many
times, but you want to make remember

1153
01:30:49,440 --> 01:30:56,159
that the applicants, they paid money for
that application and they want to get

1154
01:30:53,920 --> 01:30:59,600
things going. So, be reasonable in how
many times you do table an item, but

1155
01:30:57,840 --> 01:31:05,000
there's no limit to how many times you
can do that or how long. Okay,

1156
01:31:05,120 --> 01:31:12,880
let's see. Just answered that one. Tips
and tricks. Okay,

1157
01:31:10,320 --> 01:31:18,960
leave emotion and personal perspectives
at the door. be objective. Not always

1158
01:31:16,159 --> 01:31:23,679
easy to do, but um I think in this
position sometimes we have to be

1159
01:31:20,960 --> 01:31:28,960
objective and uh actually we always have
to be objective. You don't want to be

1160
01:31:24,960 --> 01:31:34,800
subjective in making these decisions.
Uh be clear and detailed about your

1161
01:31:31,440 --> 01:31:39,440
findings of fact. So always state into
the record what your findings of fact

1162
01:31:36,560 --> 01:31:43,679
are.
Don't be shy.

1163
01:31:41,520 --> 01:31:50,560
If you believe a use will generate an
impact, voice the concern clearly on the

1164
01:31:47,199 --> 01:31:56,880
record. Uh there's no such thing as a
stupid concern. If you have a concern

1165
01:31:53,040 --> 01:32:00,400
with an application, speak up. Uh let us
let us know. Let let get that into the

1166
01:31:58,719 --> 01:32:04,800
record and deliberate and talk with your
fellow commissioners about about what

1167
01:32:02,719 --> 01:32:09,440
you think is an impact. If it's
something that is not relevant or is is

1168
01:32:07,040 --> 01:32:12,159
not an impact, the other commissioners
will probably put you in your place or

1169
01:32:11,040 --> 01:32:16,880
staff will tell you, you know, you're
getting that's not pertinent to this.

1170
01:32:14,400 --> 01:32:22,560
But don't be shy. Please speak your
speak your thoughts. Um don't rely on

1171
01:32:20,320 --> 01:32:25,294
the staff or the staff report. I
remember last time Commissioner Hammer

1172
01:32:24,080 --> 01:32:28,880
has some questions about this.
[clears throat]

1173
01:32:26,080 --> 01:32:36,239
Um we're going to give you the best we
can give you and we always do. Um, but

1174
01:32:33,199 --> 01:32:41,600
sometimes staff has maybe they're not
entirely right and that doesn't happen

1175
01:32:38,960 --> 01:32:46,639
very often because we we we do we we do
good at our jobs. But even tonight, you

1176
01:32:43,760 --> 01:32:52,880
know, Commissioner Anderson disagreed
with staff on on turf and uh nothing

1177
01:32:50,960 --> 01:32:59,360
wrong with that. That's that's that's a
very healthy thing. So, uh, if you

1178
01:32:56,000 --> 01:33:03,920
disagree with staff or if you, uh, you
don't exactly agree with what's being

1179
01:33:01,360 --> 01:33:07,840
said, that's okay.
I have a thick skin. I I think Anna has

1180
01:33:06,320 --> 01:33:11,800
a thick skin. She could probably handle
it. Um,

1181
01:33:12,159 --> 01:33:15,960
questions for me.

1182
01:33:17,040 --> 01:33:24,239
» I have a question.
>> Sure. Um, just about like the

1183
01:33:21,920 --> 01:33:27,199
disagreement that y'all had today about
the turf.

1184
01:33:25,679 --> 01:33:32,080
» Um, when you don't have that
information, like I don't know why turf

1185
01:33:30,000 --> 01:33:37,120
is better than it's, you know, I've
heard that maybe your yard can get too

1186
01:33:33,840 --> 01:33:43,440
hot if you have too much turf or but
would could we have tabled that before?

1187
01:33:41,040 --> 01:33:48,320
Um, because I know it was more about the
grammar and revising just the wording.

1188
01:33:45,760 --> 01:33:52,800
» Yeah. But he asked that we revise even
the percentage. Was that okay? Like I

1189
01:33:51,040 --> 01:33:55,520
don't I just don't understand.
>> You could have tabled it if the comm if

1190
01:33:54,159 --> 01:33:57,679
the majority of the commission wanted to
table that pending a revision, you could

1191
01:33:57,199 --> 01:34:02,000
have done that.
>> Okay. And then when you are tableabling

1192
01:33:59,520 --> 01:34:06,800
something, um, if you wanted more
information about turf and why turf is

1193
01:34:04,719 --> 01:34:11,040
good and could we have asked for more
information on that or can we go home

1194
01:34:08,880 --> 01:34:16,239
and research that and like I just
>> you could you could direct staff saying

1195
01:34:12,960 --> 01:34:20,239
hey why are you recommending 50%.
>> Okay, that's what I Yeah, I

1196
01:34:18,320 --> 01:34:24,960
» you could ask Commissioner Anderson, can
you give us a little more information on

1197
01:34:22,080 --> 01:34:27,679
why you think it should be all of it? um
that is absolutely within your purview

1198
01:34:26,880 --> 01:34:29,679
to do.
>> Okay.

1199
01:34:28,480 --> 01:34:31,360
» And I will [laughter] encourage you to
do that

1200
01:34:30,159 --> 01:34:36,480
» presentation. [clears throat]
>> Yeah. Now, keep in mind that that's a

1201
01:34:33,600 --> 01:34:41,199
legislative item and so they're a little
different than a conditional use permit,

1202
01:34:38,080 --> 01:34:43,600
but the the principle's the same.
>> Okay.

1203
01:34:41,920 --> 01:34:46,719
» You can always table an item pending
more information.

1204
01:34:44,880 --> 01:34:50,000
» Okay. Yeah. I I think I just need to
learn more about what is what and what I

1205
01:34:49,199 --> 01:34:52,800
can ask and
>> and you can always direct staff to bring

1206
01:34:51,600 --> 01:34:57,040
you more information.
>> Okay. and we'll bring you the

1207
01:34:54,159 --> 01:34:59,920
information that we can. Um, yeah, good
question.

1208
01:34:57,360 --> 01:35:05,120
» Tabled that one twice
>> on the [clears throat and cough]

1209
01:35:02,159 --> 01:35:08,159
older home parking thing. We tabled that
one twice to get the information we

1210
01:35:06,800 --> 01:35:09,840
needed. So,
>> okay.

1211
01:35:09,280 --> 01:35:11,440
» Yep.
>> Cool.

1212
01:35:10,560 --> 01:35:13,760
» Send it on.
>> Thank you.

1213
01:35:12,719 --> 01:35:18,800
» Any other questions?
>> Can I ask a question?

1214
01:35:14,960 --> 01:35:24,800
» Sure. So on the conditional use permits,
if you get your list of I'm asking

1215
01:35:22,480 --> 01:35:29,600
because I had a situation like this, but
if if I was granted a conditional use

1216
01:35:27,120 --> 01:35:34,480
permit and it came with these
conditions, you can do your business

1217
01:35:32,159 --> 01:35:39,679
there. Whatever. If those were never
broken,

1218
01:35:36,239 --> 01:35:42,639
can you be broken?
>> So if they're in compliance with all of

1219
01:35:41,600 --> 01:35:50,000
their conditions,
>> with everything, is it possible to

1220
01:35:46,960 --> 01:35:53,840
pull the rug out when you've met all the
conditions?

1221
01:35:51,280 --> 01:35:58,639
» No, I don't think so.
>> Yeah, there have to be there has to be a

1222
01:35:55,600 --> 01:36:01,600
reason for staff to revoke that. And we
would investigate that. We would see

1223
01:36:00,159 --> 01:36:07,120
there's no violation. We [clears throat]
drop it. We drop it immediately.

1224
01:36:05,040 --> 01:36:12,480
» Actually to carry that one further, let
me ask if if all those conditions are

1225
01:36:10,480 --> 01:36:17,600
met, but there was an unforeseen
condition that has

1226
01:36:14,719 --> 01:36:23,760
arisen during the course of business
that is now causing the two neighbors to

1227
01:36:20,880 --> 01:36:29,760
not be good neighbors.
Could we revisit that conditional use

1228
01:36:26,000 --> 01:36:34,159
permit at that point with noticing and
all the things? Yes,

1229
01:36:31,760 --> 01:36:39,199
» I believe we could. I believe we could.
It would have to be a staff initiated

1230
01:36:36,000 --> 01:36:43,840
thing. Um, but through proper noticing
and of the both the property owners and

1231
01:36:42,159 --> 01:36:46,960
the adjacent residents, I believe we
could revisit something like that.

1232
01:36:45,360 --> 01:36:53,679
» Wouldn't that just come back to us for
reision re revision

1233
01:36:49,360 --> 01:36:56,800
of to mitigate the new
problem?

1234
01:36:54,239 --> 01:36:59,920
» I believe I believe we could. Matt, if
I'm out of line on that one, let me

1235
01:36:58,159 --> 01:37:03,760
know. But I
>> that's where I I sit back and I go,

1236
01:37:01,760 --> 01:37:09,679
"Okay, I was given a a conditional use
permit to do a a nightly rental in a

1237
01:37:08,400 --> 01:37:15,520
fair."
>> Yeah, a different town. But if it seems

1238
01:37:12,639 --> 01:37:20,239
to me if if you gone through the process
to get the condition permit and it's

1239
01:37:17,679 --> 01:37:24,320
granted
doesn't seem right that they'd be able

1240
01:37:22,000 --> 01:37:31,000
to go back later and say, "Oh, now we
want this." That's why that's why I

1241
01:37:26,800 --> 01:37:31,000
asked the question. I have never broken.

1242
01:37:32,320 --> 01:37:40,880
» It's it it it's a difficult situation.
It's one we don't face very often. I am

1243
01:37:38,400 --> 01:37:46,159
thinking that if a if a situation arose
and there was a code enforcement issue

1244
01:37:44,080 --> 01:37:50,239
involving that CUP that is part of the
code enforcement procedure, we could

1245
01:37:48,800 --> 01:37:57,199
require them to go back to planning
commission to address it. Um, if there's

1246
01:37:55,360 --> 01:38:02,440
that's probably the only mechanism that
we could do something like that. We just

1247
01:37:59,440 --> 01:38:02,440
can't.

1248
01:38:03,520 --> 01:38:11,360
Well,
going back to that coffee shop. Um,

1249
01:38:09,920 --> 01:38:14,320
no, but they were they were violating
their condition. They weren't they

1250
01:38:12,560 --> 01:38:17,440
weren't doing something new. So, yeah,
those are those are excellent questions,

1251
01:38:15,760 --> 01:38:21,280
but I think it would have to be tied to
a code enforcement

1252
01:38:19,520 --> 01:38:25,920
action.
So,

1253
01:38:24,080 --> 01:38:28,639
» I think it would have to be something
substantial, too. It couldn't be

1254
01:38:27,280 --> 01:38:31,679
something minor that it's like, "Oh,
right. We didn't see that. We didn't

1255
01:38:30,080 --> 01:38:35,280
think of it." And it's it's something
really just that the neighbor doesn't

1256
01:38:33,920 --> 01:38:40,000
like it. It would have to be something
substantial that would be you'd have to

1257
01:38:38,000 --> 01:38:42,719
mitigate the first should have mitigated
the first time around, not not something

1258
01:38:41,840 --> 01:38:45,920
minor. Yeah.
>> Yeah.

1259
01:38:44,560 --> 01:38:52,159
What would likely happen in that
situation is I would begin an

1260
01:38:48,000 --> 01:38:56,080
investigation into it, work to
understand the issue and possibly

1261
01:38:53,600 --> 01:38:58,800
resolve it with the applicant and then
we make that determination at that time

1262
01:38:57,520 --> 01:39:05,480
whether to bring it back to the planning
commission. So, excellent question. So,

1263
01:39:02,080 --> 01:39:05,480
excellent question.

1264
01:39:05,520 --> 01:39:10,143
Got me thinking tonight.
[laughter]

1265
01:39:10,320 --> 01:39:13,800
Any other questions?

1266
01:39:16,080 --> 01:39:23,199
Now, when I when I say, you know, don't
always trust staff completely, that

1267
01:39:20,880 --> 01:39:27,280
doesn't mean be mean to us. [laughter]
Um,

1268
01:39:24,800 --> 01:39:32,719
» you guys you guys are always very kind
and uh respectful with staff. And

1269
01:39:30,000 --> 01:39:36,880
believe me, I really appreciate that. I
I' I've been on commissions where we've

1270
01:39:35,040 --> 01:39:42,400
had antagonistic commissioners, and it
it is not pleasant. And so you guys have

1271
01:39:39,920 --> 01:39:46,480
always been really good about working
with and respecting staff and I

1272
01:39:44,560 --> 01:39:51,280
appreciate that. City council is as
well. City council's also very very good

1273
01:39:48,880 --> 01:39:54,920
with their staff. So
I appreciate that.

1274
01:39:55,440 --> 01:40:00,960
Okay. If no further questions, that's
another hour in your training books. So

1275
01:39:59,199 --> 01:40:06,000
uh uh for the record, for those
commissioners that didn't come in today,

1276
01:40:03,920 --> 01:40:10,480
please view the training and let me know
online. our YouTube YouTube has all of

1277
01:40:08,639 --> 01:40:16,000
our planning commission meetings. Uh
that way you can [snorts] get the

1278
01:40:11,360 --> 01:40:19,280
training time on your on your record. So
>> thank you Andrew.

1279
01:40:17,840 --> 01:40:22,280
» Thank you. All right, guys. Have a good
night.