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And it's the wrong video

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front and center. This is a group
activity. Let us call to order the

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meeting.
of the comprehensive plan implementation

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committee.
>> Yeah, today is September

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» and uh
we always start an agenda review

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in case there are any folks from the
public who are joining us. Don't see

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anyone today does join we will welcome
them. Um, is there anything

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agenda that needs to be adjusted in any
way? I don't think so. But

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all right. Um, so let's start off with
the

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administ which is um we sent around the
August 10th

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meeting minutes.
There is one little that it's been

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pointed out needs to be corrected. Um I
think three times it's the mixed

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transitional zone is referred to as the
TMU

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transitional mixed use. It ain't
at least it's not not that's not what we

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proposed
the mixed transitional zone and we refer

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to it in abbreviation as the MT
proposed with that correct um do people

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approve of that of those minutes?
>> Yes.

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» Thank you very much. Um
so as corrected

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The only thing in terms of upcoming
dates obviously this Thursday we have a

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on Rico the 13th. I know Pam can
>> 10th I think.

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» Oh yes last month. That's right. Yes. Um
so the 10th and I think Pam can't be

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there but I is able. Yeah. Great. The
three of us. Um,

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and next month our meeting is when the
hell is it?

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» Oh, it should be accurate. If you want
to check that, too. I should have

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updated the web page.
>> Let's see. It I

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It's the 5th, right? First Monday,
>> but it's from I think we're from 3:00 to

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5:30.
>> 3:30.

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» Yeah. 5.
>> Okay.

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» Yeah. so that you guys could be before
um conservation. That's right. That's

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right.
>> 10.

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» That's October 5th.
>> There you are. 3:30 to 5:00 in the

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conference room.
>> And

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Pam, are you away at that point or not?
You're here. Okay, great.

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» So, those are items and um we can jump
right into

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Um,

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Sky circulated notes the last workshop.
Hopefully we all reviewed them.

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Nothing to think. There were certain
visions that were made. Um, and there

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were some questions.

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» Yeah, not a whole lot. Evelyn put these
together for me. Thank gosh for Evelyn.

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» Great.
>> Um, and I feel new planning and codes

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coordinator office. Uh, she started at
the beginning of last week and I think

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you may be the only one who hasn't met
her, Pete.

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» Everyone else has.
>> She's going to be at the workshop.

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» You will be into the deep end.
>> She is like a a revamped version of

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Irene's position. Um, so doing was doing
but also doing more on top of that as

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well. Um, because part of Irene's job
was doing passports and we felt that

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there was a stronger need for more and
planning. Um, so her position is a new

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position but it incorporates the things
that Irene did. So um, minutes sent to

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Evelyn
posting.

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» Yeah. Yeah, website postings, which is
mostly just you, you know, doing things.

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» Please take my
she was part of a meeting that I thought

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I was gonna be having one person and she
this new person came and

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» and she was doing this and
>> yeah, she's going right now because

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we're really hoping for code support
from her if possible.

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» Yes.
>> Um because he is a oneman

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» in the

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» She wanted it. She wanted it. I said,
"Do you want to go to planning?" You

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know, like you don't have to go to
planning board. You can do minutes off

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the recording. She's like, "Oh, I might
want to." And she's like, "Oh, this

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one."
>> Y did these notes and it was kind of

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funny actually. We had to make some kind
of like looking over it together because

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they actually didn't out of this
meeting. We found

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» Marilyn had said she wanted to make sure
that they discussed the residential

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zones at a future date which was
anticipated, but I then they wanted

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follow-up questions answered,
>> but I couldn't find anything else. But

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before we move on discussion of the
resident, what does that mean? The

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planning board did that. They reviewed

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» of the uses
>> like we haven't done the residential

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zones as part of the use table and I
think she was just wanting to make sure

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that would happen.
>> Yeah.

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» Oh, you guys don't have to do that.
Yeah, we had been doing it one way at

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the end of July and then we had shifted
it and so I think she was just wasn't

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everyone the rest of the table was good
and she would still get a chance

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» just to have an eye on it. That's right.
Good. Good.

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» So I think Yeah, because I was like,
"Oh, I think we're shifting them and it

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was really just the uses."
>> Uses. That's right.

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» Yeah. Yeah. Great. Okay.
Preparation for this Thursday's workshop

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is the center of what we're doing. Um,
and Skye's memo, which I don't have

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printed, but it's in my

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It does,
you know, the way you've sky is helpful

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that um I think toward the very end of
it,

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you

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a little bit less systematic in going
because you probably got bored. Oh,

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where through the um I think the very
end. Let's see.

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» Oh, a BD.
>> Yeah.

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» Where I was kind of like,
>> yeah, a little bit less thorough, but

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was helpful to me to
that all of those different points were

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touched upon and don't
the same way. And it's important that we

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do. Um
uh so

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we're just trying to make sure that you
know we're not pushing the planning

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board to have
>> that's right feelings. We're trying when

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it comes to it's more
>> right that it's addressing these things.

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It's Yeah.
>> Please discuss

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if
>> a property a parcel is in three

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different zones. How was that decision
to made? You know, it's

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» Oh, if there's anywhere I did, do you
feel that I didn't give the same amount

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of information?
>> Let's go through it. You know my unless

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you go through something systematically,
you're gonna miss something.

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» Yep. Absolutely.
>> Bodies that we've so well.

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» Want the memo up on the screen.
>> But he's got it in front of them.

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» Yeah. However you want to do it.
>> Yeah.

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» It's your tool to use.
>> Yeah.

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» And first let me just say, you know, I'm
sure all of us have reviewed this. Is

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there any sort of preliminary stuff that
anybody wants to say?

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I I appreciated the thoroughess.
>> Yeah.

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» Yeah.
>> I think we just need to make notes

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items. CPIC wants to talk.
>> That's right. Yep. That's right. I think

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that makes sense. Y

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» both our town manager and assistant
manager

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were in the back of that team through
the whole thing. And I think Mark

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Jonathan made a comeback once or twice.
>> Yep.

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» But I think they've in fact a little
extra help.

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» Yeah. There's it there's a level of
we're all in this which I think is very

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helpful. Committed to coming to the
planning for workshops.

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» So we're we're you know we've dealt
the lower village the middle village and

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now we're getting to I don't even know
if we've dealt with the middle village.

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Did we?
find they kind of touched on Dairy

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Queen, but
>> there wasn't

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wanted to fight for that.
>> Yeah.

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» Throughout it,
>> what it is

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» and um
>> and Marilyn

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mostly about the
as a general thing rather than the

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specificity of Middle Village. Yeah. um
when we kind of talked back and like

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maybe this is a reason not to combine
them to consider

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» um but I didn't feel like there was any
noted that they and lower village the

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uses and boundaries
>> we have not

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» no we have that noted for them
>> they did you know I can't think of

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anything that was brought up
>> y

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» um moving on to um what is currently
um which in recode is suggested to be

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named the upper village.

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Looking at
boundary changes um

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to keep lot
versus multiple uh zones and that's

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aligns with zoning and assess
and each and every parcel

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and the owner. Um, just see if there's
if there's anything that we want to

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sort of
or add to in our commentary.

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Anything pop up for you, Sky, as we
>> No, I felt that these all made sense.

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I've got the zoning map up. Um
the U432A

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» Yeah.
>> Um

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it is, you know, I think you could argue
that's, you know, kind of both in um R1,

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but also this this is there's a walking
path through here. Y so a good portion

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of this of conservation
on it. Yeah.

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» Um so I'm not super concerned about that
lot quite honestly. Um and the port

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potentially it could be sort of
buildable is in um VC. So I think UV

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makes sense and it looks like it's
majority% is in in VC right now. Yeah.

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» Like or like like three maybe so maybe
2% you know in in VC and there's you

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know 38 here and I can't do math. So
yeah.

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» Um so I think that that makes sense. Um
you know I have no issues with that

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proposal.
And there's no effect.

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» Yeah.
>> Could somebody look at it and argue

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it really needs to change? They want to
make a change.

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» Well, zoning changes should be based on
the comp plan. So if someone were beyond

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what we're suggesting, I'd want to know
how it aligns with the comp plan board

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were to say really strong,
which I quite honestly don't really

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makes more sense to you do UV, but if
they felt really strongly, I mean to

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have
>> prepared for a thing that that you don't

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expect.
>> I don't think this is going to be one of

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them, but
>> great. So on Main Street in that way is

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quite odd. It is,
>> is it not?

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» It's a strange It's a strange lot. It's
this little Actually, I wonder if you

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can.
>> It looks like it's about what, 12 ft

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wide.
>> It's definitely a back lot. You can't

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really see it from here. I'm sorry. I'm
very bad about using the underlying base

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layer. Um, you can put that on. Oh,
that's not what I meant to do.

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» Um, but you know, that's a perfect
visual. I mean, we don't even need to

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Yeah, that's
>> work.

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So with just with that little piece.
>> So you can see Yeah. It's like the back.

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This is a ravine through here.
>> Right. Just cannot imagine that this is

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actually like a developable lot.
>> Yeah. And at this point your f

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uses. So uses aren't mentioned.
>> Yep. So I think we just

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» Yeah. Quite honestly, I haven't been
putting uses in the because it did a lot

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of work to create. So, I haven't felt
the need to recreate that in the memos

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and use the comparisons and stuff to
review it that way. But, I felt that it

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was probably a waste of my time.

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Um, Hubard Lane. Yep.
>> Yeah.

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Potentially Chuck's house. Just joking.
Um but it is a portion of the highlands.

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Um one of their biggest
>> right?

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» Yeah. Well, no. It's probably
>> Isn't he topsome?

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» Is he is you're right. I was thinking
that they

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» he's got seos management.
>> Yeah, I know. He's got a lot

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» I think. You're right. He is. I was
thinking I was saying, "Oh, no, it isn't

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because I was under the I was like, "Oh,
Highlands is owned by Greece management

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or something."
>> But he owns bombs.

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» Yep. Yep. Yep.
>> But um this is where a lot of those

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walking trails are, too. there's got to
be some sort of conservation easements

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on this. So once again, I don't think
this is very developable.

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» Um,
>> you know, and it doesn't seem like

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anyone's probably. So I think this is
proposed to go all MUL, which makes

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sense to me. The only one who could
potentially try to develop this would be

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Walleski, and he's developed in MUL, so
that would be

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» the ideal zoning for him anyway. Yeah,
that one seems pretty simple to me.

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» Yeah.
>> Okay, two down.

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» I like how you say that.
Looks simple to me. Yeah,

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» there you go.
>> There they are.

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» Okay. 107 Main Street.
>> That is uh this one. It's just because

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there's a very small portion of it in
this one also seems very simple.

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» Yeah, that's dealership.
>> That is Yeah, I think Nissan. Yep,

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that's Nissan.
>> Um so that one's such a small

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» Yeah. So it's it's uh upper village.
>> It seems that the zone follows the river

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um you know existing. So just getting
rid of that.

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And
>> so next we have

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» this one which is Toyota.
>> Y

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» and I think that's just going all UV
which once again the portion of it

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they're using is in the VC
>> just all becomes UV sounds fine to me. I

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doubt they're going to get to the back
of that. So that's 115 main is it?

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» Yeah.
>> Yeah. Yeah.

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00:17:18,799 --> 00:17:27,360
» Okay. Any
>> before we go too far is there not

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changes to that road state road coming
in there? Yeah, but they're probably

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within the um right ofway because it's a
huge right ofway.

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00:17:32,160 --> 00:17:36,320
» Okay.
>> So, I don't think they're going outside.

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» At that point, it's already four lanes.
>> Um it goes down to two right here. It's

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two here.
>> Okay.

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00:17:41,280 --> 00:17:46,080
» Yeah, it's two through here, which they
are widening, but it's I I cannot

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imagine that's not going to happen
within the right of way. They've got a

214
00:17:47,440 --> 00:17:51,840
big right of way there. So, I don't
think that'll impact this.

215
00:17:51,360 --> 00:17:55,360
» Okay.
>> It's not going to be making it easier to

216
00:17:53,360 --> 00:17:59,840
get an entrance onto that road as I will
say. They'd never approve of that. Yeah,

217
00:17:57,120 --> 00:18:01,919
» you'd have to access off of Lee.
>> Um,

218
00:18:00,320 --> 00:18:05,200
» okay. Super off street.
>> There's no way next to the CMP corridor,

219
00:18:04,799 --> 00:18:08,880
right?
>> Yeah. Yep. So, I I think that that's

220
00:18:07,280 --> 00:18:11,520
just, you know, Puyo owns the land.
They're not doing anything with it. I

221
00:18:10,400 --> 00:18:14,799
don't see them doing anything. I mean,
you know, maybe they'll add something.

222
00:18:12,799 --> 00:18:18,880
They added like a but they they added
like a service shop back here over

223
00:18:17,120 --> 00:18:22,559
existing impervious. That was the most
recent thing they've come through for.

224
00:18:20,640 --> 00:18:25,280
Um, so it doesn't necessarily seem like
they need more space. You know, the most

225
00:18:23,919 --> 00:18:29,520
I could see them doing is saying that
they want to have another parking lot to

226
00:18:27,280 --> 00:18:33,039
have cars on it, but you know,
>> it'd still be entrance off Main Street.

227
00:18:31,360 --> 00:18:37,840
» It' still be entrance off Main Street.
And, you know, they made them buffer

228
00:18:36,240 --> 00:18:40,720
» when they did this, so I assume it'd be
similar. So, once again, I'm not

229
00:18:39,200 --> 00:18:44,880
concerned about that one.
>> Okay, on to the next one. 100 Monroe

230
00:18:44,000 --> 00:18:48,080
Lane.
>> Yeah, this is just an instance where the

231
00:18:46,559 --> 00:18:52,480
fact that this lot is a very strange
lot. Um, it's currently the front part

232
00:18:51,039 --> 00:18:58,000
of it is in BC. I mean, I think it's
like l literally their driveway. Um, and

233
00:18:56,080 --> 00:19:02,799
it's just going to all be in R1, which,
you know, it does kind of break up the

234
00:18:59,679 --> 00:19:08,000
zoning along Main Street, but I think is
>> fine because we keep saying it's better

235
00:19:04,799 --> 00:19:11,440
if zones match lot lines.
>> Yeah.

236
00:19:08,400 --> 00:19:19,039
» Um because it's just
>> Yeah. It's literally just this here.

237
00:19:15,520 --> 00:19:22,640
» So, that little piece that interjects
out toward Main Street will be R1. Yes.

238
00:19:22,080 --> 00:19:29,480
» Yeah.
>> Yeah.

239
00:19:25,200 --> 00:19:29,480
» Peculiar, but makes sense.

240
00:19:29,600 --> 00:19:34,720
» Yeah. I can't see another thing that
makes more sense on that one. You know,

241
00:19:32,960 --> 00:19:39,440
it's just kind of a backlot
>> and you know what we're doing is, you

242
00:19:36,799 --> 00:19:44,240
know, it's what makes sense to us and
then the planning board will discuss it

243
00:19:41,120 --> 00:19:44,880
and us makes sense to the assessor and
the

244
00:19:44,559 --> 00:19:49,039
» Yeah.
>> Yeah. I didn't seem to have a big issue

245
00:19:46,640 --> 00:19:54,160
with those, but yeah.
>> Um, and then this one is the CMP. Um,

246
00:19:52,640 --> 00:19:58,400
it's just going to get all put in CC,
but I don't think it has any meaningful

247
00:19:55,840 --> 00:20:05,520
impact because
>> it's a substation. Yeah. So, if you

248
00:20:03,039 --> 00:20:10,080
So, it's going to stay in commercial
corridor,

249
00:20:07,120 --> 00:20:11,360
which it's this. Oh, no. Sorry, that's
the wrong one.

250
00:20:10,880 --> 00:20:14,480
» It's this.
>> Yeah, you keep that up. I'm going to

251
00:20:12,640 --> 00:20:20,000
need that bucket to
>> Sorry,

252
00:20:16,080 --> 00:20:24,400
I cannot uh handle like uh first person
video games. So, I understand. I

253
00:20:21,760 --> 00:20:29,120
apologize. Um so, yeah, it's like the
substation back there. They own a lot of

254
00:20:26,240 --> 00:20:35,039
land through there. So, some of what is
currently the commercial corridor

255
00:20:31,760 --> 00:20:40,720
is going away. Um in terms of it's going
to be the master plan district, but the

256
00:20:38,559 --> 00:20:43,520
but the majority of it's going to be
right.

257
00:20:41,039 --> 00:20:48,720
» Nope. Thank you. That's a typo. That
should have been MPD because it would be

258
00:20:46,400 --> 00:20:52,080
part of the MPD in the C in the Thank
you, Susan.

259
00:20:50,080 --> 00:20:55,320
» I'm pretty sure. I'll I'll pull it up
really quick.

260
00:20:55,520 --> 00:21:00,200
» I think we can clarify that for them,
but

261
00:21:01,440 --> 00:21:04,760
let's see.

262
00:21:06,559 --> 00:21:12,000
» I think I've been struggling with it
because the name doesn't feel finalized

263
00:21:09,440 --> 00:21:16,080
to me, quite honestly. uh because you
know we've all talked about that. No,

264
00:21:13,280 --> 00:21:22,640
it'll be become MPD. So, we'll need to
clarify that. Um

265
00:21:19,360 --> 00:21:25,919
MPD, not CC.
>> Okay, great.

266
00:21:24,080 --> 00:21:30,440
» Or whatever it ends up getting called.
>> Yeah, the Kirkers.

267
00:21:30,480 --> 00:21:41,360
Um, but it's and and it's the only
because we always talked about having

268
00:21:37,679 --> 00:21:45,960
zones zone names reflect what's
happening there.

269
00:21:42,960 --> 00:21:45,960
» And

270
00:21:46,080 --> 00:21:56,240
there's no other zone where
that's happening, right? That that

271
00:21:54,000 --> 00:22:02,320
doesn't apply anywhere else in the town
center zones.

272
00:21:59,200 --> 00:22:05,840
So, you know, it's not a sexy name. I
think it's a confusing name.

273
00:22:05,039 --> 00:22:09,840
» Something.
>> Yeah. It's just confusing because they

274
00:22:07,840 --> 00:22:14,080
have the same acronym. So, the master
plan development and the master plan

275
00:22:12,000 --> 00:22:21,520
district are both MPD.
>> So, has has anybody given sort of

276
00:22:17,360 --> 00:22:26,400
» three minutes of thought to that matter?
I have and I can't come up with darn

277
00:22:24,559 --> 00:22:30,640
thing. I'm so sorry. you know,
>> I don't know enough about it to

278
00:22:29,120 --> 00:22:35,120
to be creative
>> because right now we're calling it the

279
00:22:32,240 --> 00:22:39,200
master plan district and we want to
scrap that name so that there's no

280
00:22:37,360 --> 00:22:45,159
confusion with the master plan
development

281
00:22:40,960 --> 00:22:45,159
which is you know

282
00:22:45,360 --> 00:22:56,720
happens whenever there's a 6 acre plus
in the town center I'll simply

283
00:22:54,000 --> 00:23:00,960
take the word plan and it
So it's two words instead of three

284
00:22:59,679 --> 00:23:03,840
» like master district.
>> Yes.

285
00:23:02,240 --> 00:23:10,679
» I think that would be confusing to
people. Implies it's the quintessential

286
00:23:07,679 --> 00:23:10,679
zone.

287
00:23:11,200 --> 00:23:18,640
» We could master district zone.
>> We could call it a PCD.

288
00:23:16,240 --> 00:23:22,799
» I had a great idea that shut down. I can
tell. All right.

289
00:23:20,960 --> 00:23:26,799
» That's true.
And in in the beginning we were calling

290
00:23:24,720 --> 00:23:33,440
it the crooer district. We've always you
know euphemistically referred to it

291
00:23:30,640 --> 00:23:39,840
because everybody knows that that's what
>> is if and when

292
00:23:36,000 --> 00:23:43,919
» sells it then then it's not
>> Yeah. It should have I mean it seems to

293
00:23:41,919 --> 00:23:49,600
me something like
>> commercial reuse commercial

294
00:23:47,440 --> 00:23:53,120
» commercial development stone.
>> Yeah. Um,

295
00:23:50,720 --> 00:23:57,760
» I think that getting some sort of reuse
or something could could be beneficial

296
00:23:55,760 --> 00:24:01,919
to it potentially. I feel like I said I
was going to ask my team and then I

297
00:23:58,960 --> 00:24:05,120
forgot so I've written it again.
>> Completely commercial, right? They're

298
00:24:03,520 --> 00:24:08,159
» noial
maybe.

299
00:24:05,440 --> 00:24:12,440
» Was it mixed resial mixed juice? Mixed
juice um reuse

300
00:24:13,520 --> 00:24:20,080
the mur but that's pretty similar. I'm a
little hesitant of mixed use because we

301
00:24:18,240 --> 00:24:21,679
currently have a mixeduse commercial,
>> right?

302
00:24:20,400 --> 00:24:23,679
» And I worry if we do
>> mixeduse limited.

303
00:24:22,960 --> 00:24:26,480
» Yeah, exactly.
>> There's a bunch of mixed use.

304
00:24:24,799 --> 00:24:30,559
» There's a bunch of mixed use. So,
>> what did they do in SWAR? What they call

305
00:24:29,679 --> 00:24:32,159
stuff down there?
>> I don't know what those zones are

306
00:24:31,760 --> 00:24:39,799
called.
>> Yeah, I don't know.

307
00:24:35,600 --> 00:24:39,799
» Expanded use.

308
00:24:40,640 --> 00:24:46,559
» We're checking out Scar Bro for a
second. So, we're taking a little pause.

309
00:24:43,760 --> 00:24:50,039
I knew we're going to see little pause.
>> That's called cheating.

310
00:24:50,400 --> 00:24:58,159
» This is what we do in planning
is we take things from other town

311
00:24:57,200 --> 00:25:01,799
» something somewhere
>> many times. Scarboro.

312
00:25:02,320 --> 00:25:07,360
» Uh does anyone know where it is? Oh,
it's probably this.

313
00:25:06,559 --> 00:25:10,799
» Yeah.
>> CPD.

314
00:25:08,320 --> 00:25:13,799
» CPD Crossroads Plan Development
District.

315
00:25:13,919 --> 00:25:16,919
Huh?

316
00:25:17,679 --> 00:25:22,360
» Topsome planned development district.

317
00:25:23,760 --> 00:25:29,120
» I worry about planned development when
we currently have planned commercial,

318
00:25:27,120 --> 00:25:33,039
planned residential and planned mixed
use which are staying in. The question

319
00:25:31,200 --> 00:25:36,080
is just how they'll be interacted with
in the

320
00:25:34,400 --> 00:25:42,760
» center zones.
>> Um,

321
00:25:38,159 --> 00:25:42,760
» see master plan there and we're

322
00:25:43,760 --> 00:25:52,840
Uh what about the VPD grand planned
development?

323
00:25:49,520 --> 00:25:52,840
» I mean

324
00:25:53,120 --> 00:25:59,039
they have the crossroads.
>> Yeah.

325
00:25:57,120 --> 00:26:02,240
» Um you know which is kind of them trying
to which is there. It does connect two

326
00:26:01,120 --> 00:26:06,960
parts of their town.
>> Yeah. And in terms of the Crooked

327
00:26:05,279 --> 00:26:13,600
District,
it's bisected by the the CMP.

328
00:26:10,880 --> 00:26:18,880
» Yeah. And and there's a significant
impact by 295.

329
00:26:16,240 --> 00:26:21,919
» Y it's like, you know, people talk about
there being a new exit

330
00:26:21,279 --> 00:26:28,679
» Mhm.
>> ramp.

331
00:26:23,440 --> 00:26:28,679
» So 295 development

332
00:26:30,159 --> 00:26:35,279
» area.
>> I'm trying to avoid the word road. Not

333
00:26:34,000 --> 00:26:39,200
exactly sure why, but
>> Yeah. No, no, that's fair. Yeah, it is

334
00:26:36,960 --> 00:26:41,919
expected that it would connect 196 and
2011 if it were developed.

335
00:26:40,799 --> 00:26:44,919
» Yeah.
>> Um

336
00:26:44,960 --> 00:26:49,080
» is the word area

337
00:26:49,279 --> 00:26:53,640
enough open enough

338
00:26:56,240 --> 00:27:05,200
whether it's commercial area or
composite area.

339
00:27:02,000 --> 00:27:09,039
So it would connect 295 and 196, but it
also connects it 2011

340
00:27:08,000 --> 00:27:12,720
» to 196
>> to 196

341
00:27:11,039 --> 00:27:17,760
» though. And so those are without being
highways, those are local

342
00:27:16,400 --> 00:27:21,600
access roads.
>> I would say they're even more than

343
00:27:19,039 --> 00:27:26,080
local. Like those are state roads.
>> So 2011 and 196

344
00:27:24,320 --> 00:27:30,799
» and it's fair to assume that those are
not going to change.

345
00:27:27,120 --> 00:27:36,559
» No, that's right. Okay.
I am not necessarily saying this is my

346
00:27:33,360 --> 00:27:41,000
final suggestion but I just had the idea
of center planned district

347
00:27:41,360 --> 00:27:49,600
» and I came up with CPD but what was the
connector planned district? Yeah, center

348
00:27:46,240 --> 00:27:54,480
plan center planned district.
>> The nice thing about center is it needs

349
00:27:52,080 --> 00:27:56,880
more flexibility for what's going to get
connected to what else.

350
00:27:56,480 --> 00:28:02,640
» Yeah.
>> Down the road. Yeah, that's that's my

351
00:27:58,880 --> 00:28:06,720
idea right now. So that yeah, I think
that's probably the best we've come up

352
00:28:04,240 --> 00:28:12,399
with. And if we can talk the planning
board out of village center

353
00:28:09,919 --> 00:28:15,200
and let it become upper village, then
you don't have confusion between the

354
00:28:14,559 --> 00:28:16,640
centers.
>> Exactly.

355
00:28:15,760 --> 00:28:20,399
» Right. Right.
>> Yeah. Maybe keep that one in your pocket

356
00:28:18,080 --> 00:28:23,840
until after we've had this conversation.
>> Okay. If any signing board members are

357
00:28:22,000 --> 00:28:26,159
watching, take it into account.
>> That's the best yet. Okay. Thank you,

358
00:28:25,360 --> 00:28:29,360
Sky.
>> Mhm. Well, there's nothing like a little

359
00:28:28,640 --> 00:28:33,279
brainstorming.
>> She She gets a raise.

360
00:28:30,960 --> 00:28:38,240
» Oh, yeah. Okay.
>> All right. So, let's move on now to the

361
00:28:35,039 --> 00:28:43,919
next bullet. Is boundary changes due to
existing use or character.

362
00:28:41,840 --> 00:28:49,520
So, we're looking at the school bus
depot, Six Eagle's Way,

363
00:28:47,200 --> 00:28:56,799
and that's the Yep. Right there. We
don't have any fronting on Main Street

364
00:28:52,320 --> 00:28:59,760
» and so um it abuts the light industrial.
We're suggesting that it stay in light

365
00:28:59,200 --> 00:29:02,480
industrial.
>> It moved to light industrial. It's

366
00:29:01,120 --> 00:29:04,240
currently in BC.
>> Ah

367
00:29:02,960 --> 00:29:06,399
» did I say stay?
>> No.

368
00:29:04,640 --> 00:29:11,039
» No. Okay.
>> Umuh.

369
00:29:09,039 --> 00:29:14,640
So what we were suggesting that it go
into light industrial, right?

370
00:29:13,120 --> 00:29:17,600
» Yep.
>> I shouldn't say go into it is currently.

371
00:29:17,279 --> 00:29:19,679
No.
>> No. What is it currently?

372
00:29:19,039 --> 00:29:22,559
» BC.
>> BC. Okay.

373
00:29:20,559 --> 00:29:26,399
» So, this is the center zones map. It's
carved out there.

374
00:29:24,799 --> 00:29:29,919
» And this is the current zoning map. It's
in BC. So, this is an instance where you

375
00:29:28,640 --> 00:29:35,120
guys aren't trying to take something
into the center zones. You're going, you

376
00:29:31,440 --> 00:29:38,320
know what, this misuse is existing. It's
doing its thing. It's doing something

377
00:29:36,559 --> 00:29:41,360
important, but it fits better with LII,
which it abuts,

378
00:29:40,159 --> 00:29:47,279
» which I would agree with.
>> Okay.

379
00:29:44,159 --> 00:29:50,640
So, this isn't a bullet where CPIC has
to speak up. It's It's

380
00:29:49,200 --> 00:29:53,760
» No, no, it's currently correct. You
don't need to say anything.

381
00:29:51,520 --> 00:29:58,080
» Okay. Okay. Good. Yeah, I see. I see.
>> Proposed to be zoned LI and recode due

382
00:29:55,600 --> 00:29:59,679
to use being more compatible with LA.
No, you're good. You don't need to say a

383
00:29:59,279 --> 00:30:02,960
thing.
>> Okay.

384
00:30:01,360 --> 00:30:10,880
Okay.
So, 125 Main Street is next, which is

385
00:30:07,440 --> 00:30:16,240
MPD and the
child care center, I think.

386
00:30:14,080 --> 00:30:19,919
Um, yes, it's a daycare and Bureau of
Motor Vehicles are seeing some typos in

387
00:30:17,919 --> 00:30:22,919
this memo now.
>> Um,

388
00:30:23,840 --> 00:30:31,919
and yeah, this one seems to me to make
sense. Um, I said that it's proposed to

389
00:30:29,360 --> 00:30:37,520
be zoned UV and recode due to compatible
use and location on Main Street. Uses

390
00:30:34,080 --> 00:30:40,559
remain permitted in UV. Um,
>> Y. So, it doesn't change any uses.

391
00:30:40,080 --> 00:30:44,640
» Yep.
>> Yeah. And so if you guys are good with

392
00:30:43,200 --> 00:30:48,080
that, you don't need, you know, you
could say that you support it. You could

393
00:30:46,559 --> 00:30:51,200
add that you support it and you think it
makes sense.

394
00:30:49,039 --> 00:30:55,279
» These are the other two lots. And I know
we've talked about Napa before. And I do

395
00:30:52,960 --> 00:31:00,240
want to apologize because I
misunderstood

396
00:30:56,960 --> 00:31:02,880
this and thought that the that this was
Napa

397
00:31:01,279 --> 00:31:04,559
» up here and that it was the top one.
>> Uhhuh.

398
00:31:03,279 --> 00:31:09,760
» This is Napa here.
>> Oh. So, I will just say that if you were

399
00:31:07,679 --> 00:31:13,360
to say we don't want Napa, I think you
would need to This is a vacant lot

400
00:31:12,320 --> 00:31:16,559
currently.
>> Um, it is a buildable lot. I'm not

401
00:31:15,039 --> 00:31:21,360
really sure why no one's built on it,
but it is a developable lot. It's

402
00:31:18,640 --> 00:31:25,679
meeting frontage and lot size minimums.
>> Um,

403
00:31:22,960 --> 00:31:28,399
and so I did want you to be aware of
that. I know we've talked about Napa a

404
00:31:27,039 --> 00:31:31,520
lot and I had said, "Yeah, I think that
makes a lot of sense, but I didn't feel

405
00:31:29,679 --> 00:31:34,559
right, you know, not giving you guys
this realization that I had had that

406
00:31:32,880 --> 00:31:38,320
Napa was not the top." Yeah.
>> And you wouldn't just be saving the top

407
00:31:36,080 --> 00:31:42,159
off. You would be cutting out probably a
developable lot.

408
00:31:40,320 --> 00:31:45,519
» That's interesting. So, let's look at
Yeah. What's currently So, that's

409
00:31:44,480 --> 00:31:50,600
vacant.
>> Yep. Yep. Close your eyes, Chuck.

410
00:31:51,120 --> 00:31:59,760
I don't know if I can.
>> Um, it's just out in front of Precast.

411
00:31:57,519 --> 00:32:05,440
It's this lot, so it's like flat. Do we
know who owns it? Um, it is listed as

412
00:32:02,960 --> 00:32:08,080
owned by
>> that LLC.

413
00:32:06,960 --> 00:32:12,159
» Um, no.
>> Terrence H. Gray. I've not heard of him

414
00:32:11,120 --> 00:32:16,799
or met him.
>> Okay. Yeah.

415
00:32:13,600 --> 00:32:19,120
» Help me. What's What's the White Side?
>> This is pre-cast of Maine.

416
00:32:18,799 --> 00:32:23,039
» Okay.
>> And that is Li.

417
00:32:20,960 --> 00:32:26,159
» I'm just a reference. Good.
>> Yes, that is Li. No one's No one's

418
00:32:24,960 --> 00:32:30,960
suggesting that change.
>> Yeah.

419
00:32:27,840 --> 00:32:35,519
So given that, that's an interesting
kind of little boo boo that we now have

420
00:32:32,880 --> 00:32:43,919
to consider. And what we've been talking
about is how right across the street is

421
00:32:39,279 --> 00:32:51,039
R1. It's a completely residential y um
development. It's not going to change.

422
00:32:46,640 --> 00:32:58,480
and more compatible with a residential
area is upper village I think in terms

423
00:32:54,720 --> 00:33:03,919
of uses and development
standards.

424
00:32:59,360 --> 00:33:11,760
» Mhm. And I will say that Napa as a use
remains allowable. Yeah. Um, and

425
00:33:09,519 --> 00:33:15,600
and because what we're I think what
we've always said is, you know, what's

426
00:33:13,519 --> 00:33:19,440
on that lot right now doesn't mean it's
going to be on that lot in 25 years.

427
00:33:18,720 --> 00:33:23,039
» Um,
>> yeah, thinking that it was the top of

428
00:33:20,880 --> 00:33:26,320
it, it made more sense to me. Okay, you
know, pair it off. But realizing it was

429
00:33:24,960 --> 00:33:28,559
in the middle and there was a there was
a

430
00:33:26,960 --> 00:33:32,720
» vacant lot that was probably trying to
be grabbed, it made me kind of go, hm.

431
00:33:30,720 --> 00:33:36,240
» Yeah. I will say the building is
certainly not allowable in UV unless

432
00:33:34,399 --> 00:33:41,080
you're to allow the workshop building.
So there is that but you know

433
00:33:41,760 --> 00:33:48,519
so it's difficult. Yeah. So right now

434
00:33:49,039 --> 00:33:55,600
the lot is currently located in LI and
it butts Main Street located across the

435
00:33:54,000 --> 00:34:00,880
street from residential neighborhood.
the proposed to be zoned upper village

436
00:33:58,720 --> 00:34:05,360
in Rico due to location on Main Street
and across from the residential

437
00:34:02,399 --> 00:34:08,560
neighborhood. Use remains permitted but
not the building to me.

438
00:34:06,799 --> 00:34:11,359
» I did not get into building types here.
>> Yeah,

439
00:34:09,440 --> 00:34:12,960
» it was a little bit beyond me I feel,
you know, quite honestly.

440
00:34:12,560 --> 00:34:16,800
» Yeah.
>> Um but looking at it, we're not allowed

441
00:34:15,359 --> 00:34:18,800
to do the workshop building and I'm
guessing that's what this would

442
00:34:17,760 --> 00:34:25,520
probably.
>> Yeah. But there's a place further on and

443
00:34:23,440 --> 00:34:31,760
I didn't you know print this out and
make notes but there is a place where in

444
00:34:28,399 --> 00:34:36,159
the current code there is nonconformance
going on and it's not just in the cooker

445
00:34:33,520 --> 00:34:40,320
zone you know so it's not like we're
creating

446
00:34:37,679 --> 00:34:45,520
nonconformity where there isn't any and
it's rare

447
00:34:41,599 --> 00:34:49,760
» it's rare so what do people think can we
live with the nonconformity of a

448
00:34:48,320 --> 00:34:53,280
building.
>> I think the only thing that's hard about

449
00:34:51,200 --> 00:34:58,480
this, I'll just note, is you're it's not
currently in UV or in BC. You're

450
00:34:56,320 --> 00:35:05,280
proposing to grab these three lots
>> from lot light industrial

451
00:35:02,000 --> 00:35:10,320
» and impose building regulations on them.
Um, one of which,

452
00:35:06,960 --> 00:35:14,320
» you know, would not probably need it. I
I genuinely actually don't really know

453
00:35:11,760 --> 00:35:18,000
how this one this is the thing that's
been this probably meets village type

454
00:35:16,880 --> 00:35:21,200
building type. Yeah.
>> So, I guess you could not bring it up.

455
00:35:20,000 --> 00:35:24,720
If they bring it up and they're
concerned, you could kind of choose to

456
00:35:22,480 --> 00:35:26,720
go with the flow or you could choose to
push for it.

457
00:35:25,520 --> 00:35:30,079
» Yeah.
>> Who who would be hurt

458
00:35:29,359 --> 00:35:33,760
» by
>> make by making a change?

459
00:35:31,839 --> 00:35:36,320
» Napa.
>> They become the building become

460
00:35:35,359 --> 00:35:38,960
non-conforming.
>> Yeah.

461
00:35:36,640 --> 00:35:41,599
» Which impacts what they can do
>> moving forward.

462
00:35:39,839 --> 00:35:47,599
» Moving forward. Yeah.
>> What if you just

463
00:35:44,000 --> 00:35:51,680
either either let all three of them
stay in LI. Yeah.

464
00:35:49,040 --> 00:35:53,680
» Or only take the BMV and the daycare
center.

465
00:35:52,320 --> 00:35:56,720
» I think that would be the answer. I
think if you're going to let Napa stay

466
00:35:54,960 --> 00:36:00,720
in LA, you have to let the one above it
stay in Li, but I do think you have an

467
00:35:58,800 --> 00:36:05,359
argument for BMV and daycare, quite
honestly. Um, it's already across from

468
00:36:03,520 --> 00:36:07,440
the VC. It kind of makes it a nice
square.

469
00:36:06,240 --> 00:36:10,400
» Um,
>> and as I said, it is just, you know,

470
00:36:09,040 --> 00:36:14,240
that's what's listed. They could choose
to just go okay and not bring it up.

471
00:36:12,720 --> 00:36:18,880
They could bring it up. I don't know,
you know. But the other piece is because

472
00:36:17,440 --> 00:36:25,440
I mean and I don't know how to think
about this, but if I lived in the

473
00:36:22,079 --> 00:36:28,400
residential area across the street,
what would be better for my me and my

474
00:36:27,760 --> 00:36:35,560
neighbors?
>> Yep. And there's schools nearby, you

475
00:36:30,560 --> 00:36:35,560
know. So it is difficult. I think

476
00:36:36,240 --> 00:36:41,760
» everything in pink there is. Yeah.
>> Right.

477
00:36:39,280 --> 00:36:45,520
» So most of the across the road from
residential is Ly already.

478
00:36:43,680 --> 00:36:51,440
» Right. Right. Yeah.
>> So, what we'd be trying to do is do we

479
00:36:49,119 --> 00:36:56,040
have something in the comp plan that
kind of suggests that this is something

480
00:36:52,720 --> 00:36:56,040
people want?

481
00:36:57,520 --> 00:37:09,280
» I think what what is what is in there
now is and what might come in to that

482
00:37:05,040 --> 00:37:14,079
northernmost parcel. Um it it's all
stuff that you could say might

483
00:37:11,520 --> 00:37:20,079
contribute to a walkable community, a
walkable area. You know, it's a busy

484
00:37:17,520 --> 00:37:25,960
road, but you've got people live a lot
of people living in that residential

485
00:37:21,760 --> 00:37:25,960
neighborhood. And

486
00:37:26,640 --> 00:37:34,880
» I think a Napa store
uh

487
00:37:32,640 --> 00:37:37,760
» there's a daycare center. You know this
this

488
00:37:35,359 --> 00:37:40,160
» I I think the BMV and the daycare I
don't think they'd be hurt building

489
00:37:39,040 --> 00:37:44,000
wise. I think that probably meets
building village building regulations or

490
00:37:42,560 --> 00:37:46,640
it wouldn't be too hard to change it.
You know

491
00:37:44,880 --> 00:37:51,200
» I think the Napa is definitely a bit
more. So, I guess I would say if you

492
00:37:49,040 --> 00:37:55,040
guys are going to like push on that with
the planning board, it might be good to

493
00:37:52,960 --> 00:37:58,240
find just somewhere in the in the comp
plan that suggests it could be a good

494
00:37:56,640 --> 00:38:01,920
idea. You know, you don't have to
necessarily I I doubt you'll find

495
00:38:00,000 --> 00:38:05,760
something that says reszone these three
lots. Yeah.

496
00:38:03,040 --> 00:38:09,920
» You know, but that would probably be
>> my thought and suggestion.

497
00:38:08,400 --> 00:38:15,440
I just was looking to see if there was
anything on that specific area and it

498
00:38:12,160 --> 00:38:20,480
wasn't in the site future neighborhoods.
Yeah. Um because the UV because I guess

499
00:38:18,720 --> 00:38:28,400
that's one thing to keep in mind is the
portion of um Upper Village that gets

500
00:38:24,720 --> 00:38:31,839
talked about is not there. Um it only
goes up to

501
00:38:30,560 --> 00:38:35,760
the top of Toyota.
>> Yeah. So

502
00:38:34,079 --> 00:38:38,000
I think those are things to consider.
>> Yeah.

503
00:38:36,400 --> 00:38:41,440
» I'm not saying you have to necessarily
tell them to drop it. More just being

504
00:38:40,000 --> 00:38:45,680
prepared to discuss it.
>> Yeah. And I think it's not something

505
00:38:43,280 --> 00:38:52,560
that I feel strongly about. My only
feelings are, you know, that it seems to

506
00:38:48,640 --> 00:39:00,480
be a supportive a a a
decision to support the residential

507
00:38:56,880 --> 00:39:06,240
neighborhood to have that across the
road be zoned as a village

508
00:39:03,839 --> 00:39:11,920
that that that the the development that
would take place, you know, in the

509
00:39:09,280 --> 00:39:18,440
future would be more compatible with
that residential neighborhood. But I

510
00:39:14,240 --> 00:39:18,440
don't feel strongly about it. So,

511
00:39:19,520 --> 00:39:25,280
» I just was checking the neighborhoods to
see if there's anything. It's kind of an

512
00:39:23,359 --> 00:39:28,720
empty area when it comes to the map
actually.

513
00:39:26,240 --> 00:39:34,240
» Right. The neighborhoods was an
interesting process because, you know,

514
00:39:31,440 --> 00:39:37,760
the neighborhoods were listed and then
other people said, "Well, where's my

515
00:39:35,680 --> 00:39:40,720
neighborhood?"
Because everybody loves their

516
00:39:38,960 --> 00:39:44,160
neighborhood. And it was it was
wonderful to sort of see how

517
00:39:42,640 --> 00:39:47,119
» I remember when I moved to Portland,
they have all these neighborhoods listed

518
00:39:45,520 --> 00:39:50,160
on Google Maps now of all these
different locations and there were

519
00:39:48,560 --> 00:39:52,400
certain people being like this is like
crazy, you know, that's not real and

520
00:39:52,000 --> 00:39:55,680
stuff.
>> Yeah, they're making stuff up here.

521
00:39:54,000 --> 00:40:01,280
» Yeah, exactly. But I always found it
helpful. I don't see it. It would be

522
00:39:58,720 --> 00:40:05,920
part of conceivably of Upper Village.
>> Um which is not

523
00:40:03,920 --> 00:40:10,400
» I'm not seeing
in mind. Um, so

524
00:40:08,480 --> 00:40:14,320
» honestly I I don't think that that's
something we're gonna have

525
00:40:12,560 --> 00:40:17,520
» um we're gonna try to weigh in on.
>> Okay.

526
00:40:14,720 --> 00:40:19,599
» We could have a comment about what we
did.

527
00:40:17,920 --> 00:40:23,200
» If they bring it up as a question, I'll
say if CPIC wants to weigh in, you could

528
00:40:21,760 --> 00:40:25,520
make your comment and then if they go
they don't think that's compelling.

529
00:40:24,560 --> 00:40:28,240
» Yeah. Great.
>> Okay. Good. Good. I just wanted to give

530
00:40:27,680 --> 00:40:33,599
you the information.
>> I have a question unrelated to the

531
00:40:31,040 --> 00:40:37,680
residential stuff. Was that originally
military housing?

532
00:40:35,119 --> 00:40:42,480
» I don't think so. No,
>> just the annex.

533
00:40:38,880 --> 00:40:45,040
» Yeah, just the annex. Um the Liberty
Circle and Parliament.

534
00:40:44,079 --> 00:40:47,920
» Yeah.
>> Okay.

535
00:40:45,680 --> 00:40:49,280
» Because this was the base over here.
>> Okay.

536
00:40:48,720 --> 00:40:51,920
» Um
>> I just find it interesting that there's

537
00:40:51,040 --> 00:40:56,400
that residential.
>> It is interesting just sitting there.

538
00:40:53,839 --> 00:41:01,520
» And they have slightly weird sewage too.
Um they were like septic for a while and

539
00:40:59,280 --> 00:41:05,359
then sewer got extended to them and
they've got kind of like they have they

540
00:41:02,880 --> 00:41:09,839
own like tanks and pumps. Um,
>> do you know if was that um what is it

541
00:41:07,520 --> 00:41:12,240
called? Um, a CRD.
>> A PRD.

542
00:41:10,960 --> 00:41:15,040
» PRD. PRD. Sorry.
>> I don't think so. Tom's never brought

543
00:41:13,839 --> 00:41:18,800
this one up.
>> Um, Thompson Crossing um is a PRD.

544
00:41:18,480 --> 00:41:22,480
» Yeah.
>> Um, and Highland Green, those are the

545
00:41:20,079 --> 00:41:24,480
two PRDs we know of. PMD, Planned Mixed
Use Development, has never been used.

546
00:41:24,079 --> 00:41:28,960
» Yeah.
>> And PCD is, you know, a lot of the mall

547
00:41:26,400 --> 00:41:33,839
and stuff. Um,
>> so I don't think so. I know. It is an

548
00:41:31,920 --> 00:41:36,480
interesting little neighborhood. Yeah.
Um, and I don't have a whole lot of

549
00:41:35,599 --> 00:41:39,839
history on that.
>> I have never I've not driven through

550
00:41:37,760 --> 00:41:44,160
there, but I think I will one day just
to see what it looks like because when I

551
00:41:41,520 --> 00:41:48,480
when we got up here and we drove down
>> to the school and looked, I said,

552
00:41:45,520 --> 00:41:54,079
"That's that's that's enlisted housing."
>> I had no idea. I said, "That's enlisted

553
00:41:50,640 --> 00:41:58,880
housing. I have seen it before." Right.
Right. And then I started up the area.

554
00:41:56,880 --> 00:42:02,079
» It's much nicer, I would say, than
Parliament Circle. Yeah.

555
00:42:00,240 --> 00:42:05,119
» Um, Parliament Circle's still officer
housing. You never know. Be careful what

556
00:42:03,760 --> 00:42:10,480
you say, young man.
>> Well, it's just I think we can all say

557
00:42:06,960 --> 00:42:13,760
that Parliament Circle is housing that
was built by the Navy.

558
00:42:11,680 --> 00:42:18,560
» It's old military housing that has
probably not been a

559
00:42:16,560 --> 00:42:22,880
» and it wasn't probably necessarily built
with longevity in mind. You know,

560
00:42:20,960 --> 00:42:25,119
» military people live could live in some
really shitty housing.

561
00:42:24,079 --> 00:42:29,200
» Yeah.
>> And you know, it's not like people can't

562
00:42:26,960 --> 00:42:32,880
make a home there. It's just it has its
issues and we've had complaints from

563
00:42:30,640 --> 00:42:36,319
people before. you know, um these are,
you know, like little ranchy houses. I

564
00:42:34,960 --> 00:42:38,400
can show you a street view of it really
quick.

565
00:42:36,640 --> 00:42:41,359
» They bought 50 homes in there.
>> Yeah, it's kind of a nice little

566
00:42:39,599 --> 00:42:44,560
neighborhood, I think, honestly. Um
>> Oh, look at that.

567
00:42:42,160 --> 00:42:46,400
» Yeah, it's it's it's it's good one.
>> Yeah. So, these are like pretty nice

568
00:42:45,839 --> 00:42:49,839
houses.
>> I think the lots are like a quarter

569
00:42:48,880 --> 00:42:54,680
acre.
>> Yeah.

570
00:42:51,359 --> 00:42:54,680
» It's not military.

571
00:42:54,880 --> 00:42:59,599
» We got
>> I didn't think it was military.

572
00:42:57,599 --> 00:43:01,920
» It's just some neighborhood. I It might
be kind of old. I don't know.

573
00:43:01,440 --> 00:43:05,440
» Yeah.
>> Um I'm really not I'm not totally up to

574
00:43:04,880 --> 00:43:10,960
» interesting
>> snuff or speed on this.

575
00:43:08,560 --> 00:43:17,359
» But I think we're ready to move on
>> to um let's see where are we? Um we're

576
00:43:15,520 --> 00:43:24,720
looking at mixed transitional now. We're
done. We're done with Upper Village.

577
00:43:20,880 --> 00:43:29,680
» So let's look at mixed transitional.
>> First we're looking at boundaries, I

578
00:43:26,800 --> 00:43:33,280
think. So yeah, because there wasn't all
of the changes to mix transitional due

579
00:43:31,839 --> 00:43:38,960
to, you know,
>> context use, etc., etc., I just did the

580
00:43:36,400 --> 00:43:44,000
two zones. So the first one is this area
up here,

581
00:43:40,480 --> 00:43:48,119
» um, that takes from the
village center.

582
00:43:45,119 --> 00:43:48,119
» Yeah.

583
00:43:54,800 --> 00:44:02,240
» Two. So that's um currently
VIP. Yeah.

584
00:43:59,599 --> 00:44:08,000
» VIP over link. Um one of the uses is
currently prohibited. One of them is uh

585
00:44:06,160 --> 00:44:12,960
» yeah. So currently
>> it it it goes better for them.

586
00:44:10,240 --> 00:44:18,079
» I don't know how they do with they
probably don't meet form quite honestly.

587
00:44:15,839 --> 00:44:21,359
Um because that's probably a suburban
storefront. I don't know. Maybe it could

588
00:44:19,920 --> 00:44:27,119
be classified as warehouse. I'm not
sure. Um, I think that, but I think

589
00:44:25,119 --> 00:44:30,480
what's difficult is that
>> I think it's hard to kind of preempt

590
00:44:28,880 --> 00:44:35,200
these discussions with form when we
haven't really gotten into form deeply.

591
00:44:32,880 --> 00:44:38,000
So, I speak about this with you guys. I
don't think that it's probably super

592
00:44:36,560 --> 00:44:41,599
helpful for us to try to get it because
the planning board needs to talk about

593
00:44:39,920 --> 00:44:44,480
» these things when we get to article 2
and form and I really need to have

594
00:44:43,040 --> 00:44:48,720
Leslie at that meeting. So, I need to
know multiple months in advance

595
00:44:46,240 --> 00:44:51,440
» that we're going to do that. She is
>> and we have to stick with that schedule,

596
00:44:50,880 --> 00:44:54,960
» you know. Yeah.
>> If we Yeah. line her up.

597
00:44:53,440 --> 00:45:00,640
» Uhhuh.
>> Um so that one's not too bad. Um

598
00:44:58,400 --> 00:45:02,560
» the next one, three, Union Park Road is
the credit union.

599
00:45:02,000 --> 00:45:07,119
» Yep.
>> Um

600
00:45:04,720 --> 00:45:09,920
» which uh probably means village
>> and then so it it activates the

601
00:45:09,040 --> 00:45:14,720
drive-thru thing.
>> Yeah, it has the drive-thru. Um and I

602
00:45:12,560 --> 00:45:20,560
don't quite know, but it would apply to
either zone, I think. So,

603
00:45:17,440 --> 00:45:26,560
» um, you know,
>> I've driven Newton Park Road,

604
00:45:23,839 --> 00:45:29,280
went through there several times.
>> It's nice in there.

605
00:45:27,839 --> 00:45:31,680
» Mhm. Yeah.
>> Where where the trees are, the builder

606
00:45:31,200 --> 00:45:35,119
set.
>> Yep. Yep.

607
00:45:34,000 --> 00:45:38,880
» It's a nice little
>> And it's in the back of the building, so

608
00:45:36,800 --> 00:45:42,319
they'd probably be fine. Honestly, the
drive-through regulations need like I

609
00:45:40,560 --> 00:45:46,160
think another look over, and Tom isn't
ready to kind of say this is needs

610
00:45:43,839 --> 00:45:51,440
something or not. Um because I think
maybe the frontage is messing him up a

611
00:45:48,079 --> 00:45:54,160
bit too. So I'm kind of not getting into
it. It would apply to either zone and I

612
00:45:53,040 --> 00:45:56,640
don't think it's meaningfully different
between them.

613
00:45:55,119 --> 00:45:58,160
» Maybe it is and maybe that would be a
consideration.

614
00:45:57,599 --> 00:46:01,520
» Yeah.
>> But in which case I would guess we would

615
00:45:59,760 --> 00:46:07,960
be more forgiving of drive-throughs in a
mixed transitional zone than probably

616
00:46:04,000 --> 00:46:07,960
the upper village.

617
00:46:08,720 --> 00:46:12,400
But maybe not.
>> Say that again.

618
00:46:10,800 --> 00:46:15,680
» If there was going to be differences in
how we were

619
00:46:13,200 --> 00:46:18,560
» Yeah. uh doing drive-throughs. I was
guessed that it would be a little bit

620
00:46:16,960 --> 00:46:21,280
more forgiving in the mixed transitional
than the upper village.

621
00:46:19,680 --> 00:46:23,839
» Yeah. Due to the
>> Yeah, that's what I was

622
00:46:22,400 --> 00:46:26,319
» I don't know if I don't think it is
written that way necessarily. I'm just

623
00:46:25,200 --> 00:46:32,079
saying
>> conceptually if it was if it was I would

624
00:46:30,480 --> 00:46:34,960
see it going in that direction and see
the scales tipping in that direction

625
00:46:33,680 --> 00:46:38,720
personally.
>> Any thoughts before we move on to the

626
00:46:37,040 --> 00:46:41,839
next?
So, we've dealt with two Union Park

627
00:46:40,240 --> 00:46:46,640
Road, three Union Park Road, and now
we're on to four Union Park Road. Um,

628
00:46:45,520 --> 00:46:52,880
» oh, yeah, this one does.
>> Office building lot use is professional

629
00:46:50,160 --> 00:46:57,119
office and dwelling multif family. The
multif family remains permitted and the

630
00:46:54,960 --> 00:47:00,640
office becomes conditional.
>> I wanted to talk about that. I don't

631
00:46:59,200 --> 00:47:05,920
really know why we have office
conditional in MT. Um, and I maybe, you

632
00:47:04,720 --> 00:47:10,800
know, should have considered this when
we did it, but it

633
00:47:09,119 --> 00:47:16,240
I don't know if it's, you know, we're
allowing light industrial in that zone.

634
00:47:13,520 --> 00:47:21,760
So, it seems to me that office should
potentially just be allowed because also

635
00:47:18,240 --> 00:47:25,839
over on the MT on Park Drive, Stantech
is a professional office. So, we've got

636
00:47:23,359 --> 00:47:29,040
at least two in the MT, right?
>> Um, and that is something you guys could

637
00:47:27,440 --> 00:47:32,480
bring up and say, we looked at the memo,
we noticed there was two conditionals.

638
00:47:31,040 --> 00:47:35,200
We think that this should maybe be
permitted. So, let's

639
00:47:33,920 --> 00:47:40,000
» not to tell you what to do. Just
>> No, no, but that that makes complete

640
00:47:36,800 --> 00:47:42,800
sense, but um so you're saying it should
be permitted.

641
00:47:40,640 --> 00:47:46,000
» It seems maybe it should to me. Um I
think and this is why I think it's been

642
00:47:44,319 --> 00:47:48,960
helpful to do these things this way
because you get to the specific.

643
00:47:48,079 --> 00:47:53,839
» So, um
>> are we looking at commercial?

644
00:47:50,880 --> 00:47:57,040
» I think it's office
>> service. Service.

645
00:47:55,680 --> 00:48:00,920
» Yeah. Sorry, it's not perfect yet.
>> Yeah, we are service.

646
00:48:03,040 --> 00:48:07,680
office
>> especially. Yeah. So I think we went

647
00:48:05,760 --> 00:48:10,960
with conditional potentially because lab
research facility is conditional but

648
00:48:09,520 --> 00:48:14,560
currently professional office is
permitted in that zone. So yeah

649
00:48:12,800 --> 00:48:18,800
» to me that kind of
>> I feel like maybe that was an oversight

650
00:48:16,160 --> 00:48:23,119
on my part and potentially we should
>> two different shades of gray two

651
00:48:20,400 --> 00:48:28,240
different shades of gray.
>> But when you say lab in a research

652
00:48:26,000 --> 00:48:32,000
facility to me that's quite different
than an office building. Yeah, they all

653
00:48:30,079 --> 00:48:35,119
got put under one thing. And I think
when we talked about this, I remember

654
00:48:33,359 --> 00:48:40,480
Rick was here last time and he
>> Why? Why? Why do you think they're

655
00:48:37,520 --> 00:48:45,920
» I guess because there's nothing
particularly that could possibly be

656
00:48:42,640 --> 00:48:51,760
dangerous in an office building, but
there could be in a lab in a facility.

657
00:48:49,920 --> 00:48:57,520
» I think the thing I would say about that
is usually there are other entities that

658
00:48:53,920 --> 00:49:02,880
govern that and that's not our like the
state does that, you know. Um, my fiance

659
00:49:00,640 --> 00:49:06,480
is the planner in Brunswick and the
hospital just brought in a new like

660
00:49:04,640 --> 00:49:09,599
they're doing a cancer care something.
They're putting that in and helped to

661
00:49:07,680 --> 00:49:14,079
permit that and they're doing some sort
of radiation therapy and it was kind of

662
00:49:12,400 --> 00:49:17,359
running down, you know, is there going
to be an issue with this and they were

663
00:49:15,599 --> 00:49:22,480
just like it's governed by this thing,
you know. Um, and I think it was. So, I

664
00:49:20,319 --> 00:49:26,400
say that to say that I think
>> we're really more concerned about the

665
00:49:24,000 --> 00:49:29,839
externalities of it, parking, access. I
think a lab research facility is pretty

666
00:49:28,160 --> 00:49:33,440
similar to an office in terms of those
which is why they were lumped together

667
00:49:31,839 --> 00:49:36,400
» and since it's permitted there and we're
allowing light industrial which could

668
00:49:34,880 --> 00:49:40,720
have dangerous
>> things it doesn't necessarily make sense

669
00:49:38,800 --> 00:49:45,920
to me to have that one be conditional.
>> Okay.

670
00:49:42,720 --> 00:49:48,720
» She's with Okay. Good. So I'm looking at
the because there are couple of

671
00:49:48,160 --> 00:49:52,319
different
>> Yep.

672
00:49:49,280 --> 00:49:56,960
» use table things here.
>> Grab that decision.

673
00:49:54,559 --> 00:50:01,680
Well, that was saying something. So, I
>> Yeah, I mean, under that, we have not

674
00:49:58,960 --> 00:50:05,760
actually gotten up to reviewing the
service uses.

675
00:50:03,839 --> 00:50:12,400
» So, we're right on target. We're right
on schedule here. Um, so under office,

676
00:50:08,559 --> 00:50:17,440
what we're suggesting is that in the
mixed

677
00:50:14,079 --> 00:50:22,160
transitional, it says MV, no MT, mixed
transitional, that it's conditional that

678
00:50:19,680 --> 00:50:26,720
we're suggesting that it be permitted.
>> Are we all in agreement? office

679
00:50:24,319 --> 00:50:28,480
permitted in
>> the lady green shirt.

680
00:50:28,079 --> 00:50:31,680
» Okay.
>> Okay. I would suggest if you guys are

681
00:50:30,640 --> 00:50:34,079
okay to
>> to bring that up to the planning board.

682
00:50:33,520 --> 00:50:36,720
» Yeah.
>> Um

683
00:50:35,040 --> 00:50:40,400
» and just say that
>> you know we caught it. But I think

684
00:50:38,559 --> 00:50:43,200
that'll be the easiest way and I'll tell
them I support it. But I think if it

685
00:50:41,680 --> 00:50:48,400
comes from you as your part of your
meeting that makes the most sense. And

686
00:50:45,839 --> 00:50:53,119
so let's look at all of those just while
we're there at office. So it's permitted

687
00:50:50,800 --> 00:50:56,960
in the lower village. It's conditional
in the middle village which does make

688
00:50:54,960 --> 00:51:03,760
sense
but it's permitted in the upper village

689
00:50:59,680 --> 00:51:06,960
in the commercial mixed use.
So currently I'm looking at the

690
00:51:05,599 --> 00:51:09,760
comparison one and do you guys want me
to pull that up? I don't have it but I

691
00:51:08,640 --> 00:51:15,400
can. Yeah.
>> Um let's find it. Um,

692
00:51:17,440 --> 00:51:22,760
» yeah, it seems to be easier to do
workshops actually.

693
00:51:24,640 --> 00:51:31,599
» Yeah, we Yeah, it breaks them all out.
Professional office, lab research,

694
00:51:28,880 --> 00:51:35,599
medical clinic, and office buildings as
accessory uses.

695
00:51:32,800 --> 00:51:41,240
» Yeah. So, here we can see what falls
underneath it. Um, did I go past it? No.

696
00:51:42,160 --> 00:51:50,800
So here's office. Um, so currently how I
see it is, you know, we're I was kind of

697
00:51:48,079 --> 00:51:53,760
what caught me about the MT is the fact
that professional office is currently

698
00:51:52,720 --> 00:51:57,599
permitted
>> and everywhere else the professional

699
00:51:55,359 --> 00:52:01,359
office has a use, we just mirrored that
MT was the only one that we changed it.

700
00:51:59,599 --> 00:52:04,559
So that's why I was kind of like,
>> yeah,

701
00:52:02,160 --> 00:52:09,200
» um, lab research facility, I think, was
more strictly governed due to what you

702
00:52:06,319 --> 00:52:12,160
brought up, Susan. Yeah. But to me, I
think that there's other things that are

703
00:52:10,640 --> 00:52:15,040
looking at that. It's probably having
the same. You're not going to tell.

704
00:52:13,920 --> 00:52:18,240
You're not going to be able to tell if
something is a lab research facility

705
00:52:16,640 --> 00:52:21,680
versus a professional office, quite
honestly, probably from the outside.

706
00:52:19,920 --> 00:52:24,240
Same goes for like a medical clinic.
You're probably not really going to know

707
00:52:22,720 --> 00:52:26,960
what people are doing inside of it, just
that they're showing up in the morning

708
00:52:25,440 --> 00:52:32,079
at like 8 a.m.
>> and um leaving. And also, honestly,

709
00:52:29,440 --> 00:52:35,200
right now, um I think the dentist's
trigger professional office. It's what

710
00:52:33,599 --> 00:52:39,200
we've reviewed them under, not medical
clinic. So, I don't even know who's

711
00:52:36,960 --> 00:52:43,760
falling underneath that use. I think the
differentiations of them have been hard

712
00:52:41,440 --> 00:52:48,000
for Tom. And then off of buildings as
accessory uses, I don't genuinely know

713
00:52:45,599 --> 00:52:53,440
what that use is or what it was being
used for. I don't know of any MPD

714
00:52:50,000 --> 00:52:58,960
though. So, we're looking at
>> it's office. No. And so, we're saying

715
00:52:56,160 --> 00:53:01,839
it's permitted in MPD. Oh, good. Okay,
great.

716
00:52:59,680 --> 00:53:04,640
» Yeah, CC was or was the only one where I
saw a different I felt like professional

717
00:53:03,280 --> 00:53:07,920
office was the most important one to
look at.

718
00:53:05,680 --> 00:53:11,200
and
MT was the only one that differed. So

719
00:53:09,520 --> 00:53:14,960
therefore, to me that that made some
sense, but it is a center zone. So I

720
00:53:12,880 --> 00:53:20,800
wanted to get your opinion as a group on
that. And you know,

721
00:53:16,480 --> 00:53:24,240
» do people make a optical in the same
breath as medical?

722
00:53:22,640 --> 00:53:27,040
» Yeah, I think it would, but it might
follow just under professional office

723
00:53:26,000 --> 00:53:30,559
honestly because that's where all the
dentists fall.

724
00:53:28,880 --> 00:53:33,920
» Yeah, I said I said optical.
>> I know.

725
00:53:31,440 --> 00:53:37,760
» I know. But I'm saying if dentists are
falling under that, my guess is optical

726
00:53:35,200 --> 00:53:41,920
would fall under the same category.
>> Y wor.

727
00:53:39,599 --> 00:53:44,960
» Okay, good.
>> And are you guys okay to bring that up

728
00:53:43,440 --> 00:53:48,800
with the planning board as a suggestion
from you? I don't like to amend my

729
00:53:47,359 --> 00:53:53,760
memos.
>> Right.

730
00:53:51,359 --> 00:53:58,800
So, let's see where this fact.
>> I think she should just say this is

731
00:53:54,960 --> 00:54:00,720
what's going to be save time.
>> No,

732
00:53:59,200 --> 00:54:04,480
» we can talk about a different method if
you want to, Susan. To me that made

733
00:54:02,400 --> 00:54:08,400
sense, but I don't mean to push you to
do something.

734
00:54:06,640 --> 00:54:16,640
» No, it's I mean I'm fine saying that.
It's it's um because we haven't the

735
00:54:12,000 --> 00:54:23,760
thing that I think is to be clear is the
stuff that's in this

736
00:54:20,800 --> 00:54:27,359
chart. We have not vetted carefully.
>> We are currently in the process. Yep.

737
00:54:25,839 --> 00:54:34,319
So,
you know, we can say that it's it's uh

738
00:54:30,640 --> 00:54:38,559
it shows up as conditional that um in
mixed transitional and it really makes

739
00:54:36,559 --> 00:54:43,119
no sense for it to be permitted. You
know, that's what we're suggesting

740
00:54:41,599 --> 00:54:46,480
» and I would think the planning
department would be good. It's more

741
00:54:45,280 --> 00:54:48,319
flexibility for them.
>> Yes.

742
00:54:46,640 --> 00:54:51,599
» Oh, yeah. I I like the idea of it and
I'll support you. I just thought it made

743
00:54:49,760 --> 00:54:55,280
sense agenda wise for it to come from
CPIC in a sense.

744
00:54:53,119 --> 00:55:04,000
» Yeah.
this. Um, so that's we're talking about

745
00:54:59,760 --> 00:55:08,680
that is 22 Union Park Road. No, that is
not. It's four.

746
00:55:05,680 --> 00:55:08,680
» Yeah.

747
00:55:10,240 --> 00:55:14,040
» Yep. We can bring back

748
00:55:17,839 --> 00:55:28,160
in mixed transition.
Good. Okay. So, one last one which is

749
00:55:24,480 --> 00:55:33,599
the 22 Union Park Road. Is there a typo
there? Um, topsome voan.

750
00:55:31,599 --> 00:55:36,760
» No, that's what that's
>> right here.

751
00:55:37,680 --> 00:55:43,520
That's what's listed as the owner.
>> Okay.

752
00:55:41,359 --> 00:55:45,920
» I also thought it would be Va.
>> Yeah.

753
00:55:43,920 --> 00:55:48,160
» A because I was in a depression with
Volunteers of America. Yes. I don't

754
00:55:47,680 --> 00:55:54,079
know.
>> Volunteers of America. Yeah. Quite odd.

755
00:55:50,799 --> 00:55:59,040
Yep. Okay. It's a remains permitted. I
think it probably hits all the necessary

756
00:55:57,119 --> 00:56:01,520
requirements building wise. So, I'm not
really concerned about

757
00:55:59,920 --> 00:56:05,359
» So, is there one more?
>> No, it was just these. This one stays in

758
00:56:04,000 --> 00:56:07,680
Upper Village.
>> Okay. That's right. That's right. Good

759
00:56:07,200 --> 00:56:09,520
stuff.
>> Okay.

760
00:56:08,400 --> 00:56:13,760
» Why?
>> It wasn't proposed when you when this

761
00:56:11,839 --> 00:56:19,280
was split before I started working here.
Yeah, we looked we looked at that and um

762
00:56:16,480 --> 00:56:25,359
it was pointed out to us that ownership
of a couple of lots um you know it's

763
00:56:22,799 --> 00:56:28,480
better to sort of keep lots owned by one
person even if they're separate parcels

764
00:56:27,359 --> 00:56:31,839
in one
>> I will say that's not the case anymore

765
00:56:30,240 --> 00:56:35,760
but you can certainly see that from Main
Street in a way you can't the other ones

766
00:56:33,440 --> 00:56:39,720
so I think that it makes sense from that
>> perspective okay

767
00:56:40,720 --> 00:56:46,799
» so there's nothing sort of harmed
confirmed in terms of use or building

768
00:56:45,920 --> 00:56:48,880
type.
>> No, I don't think so for the not that

769
00:56:48,319 --> 00:56:50,799
we're going to read.
>> Not for Westerm House.

770
00:56:49,839 --> 00:56:53,920
» Yeah.
>> Great.

771
00:56:52,640 --> 00:56:59,599
Okay.
>> And I started at the bottom here.

772
00:56:57,440 --> 00:57:04,640
That is very bright orange.
>> Yeah, that is that's a little hard to

773
00:57:02,480 --> 00:57:08,640
see. I'm going to turn that off. We know
which spots we're doing.

774
00:57:07,280 --> 00:57:11,640
Yeah, that's a little easier on the
eyes.

775
00:57:12,160 --> 00:57:16,799
If that's okay with you guys, I can put
it back on.

776
00:57:14,000 --> 00:57:21,280
» No, it it doesn't matter. It's um So,
we're So, we're finished with all of

777
00:57:18,480 --> 00:57:28,359
that. We're moving on to
>> boundary changes to

778
00:57:24,400 --> 00:57:28,359
um yeah, Park Drive.

779
00:57:28,960 --> 00:57:36,480
And we had talked about
how it makes sense to alter what's being

780
00:57:34,960 --> 00:57:41,119
proposed, but we're not getting into
that here. Um

781
00:57:38,240 --> 00:57:45,520
» um you know in terms of the l the
terrain

782
00:57:43,599 --> 00:57:47,520
» as it comes out to tops and fair mall
road

783
00:57:46,000 --> 00:57:52,160
» we had talked about dropping some of
these lots from the mixed transitional I

784
00:57:49,760 --> 00:57:56,640
think um I just went off of the
documents that I have honestly and if I

785
00:57:54,799 --> 00:58:00,160
missed something from Leslie I am sorry.
Um, I think that that's the other reason

786
00:57:58,480 --> 00:58:04,559
I wanted to give you guys the chance to
speak to say, "Yes, this might have

787
00:58:02,960 --> 00:58:07,559
happened, but we think it should be this
thing."

788
00:58:08,640 --> 00:58:14,480
» Um,
you know, I I would say that I don't

789
00:58:12,799 --> 00:58:17,440
necessarily know if these lots make the
most sense in the

790
00:58:16,559 --> 00:58:20,760
» mixed transition
>> mixed transitional.

791
00:58:22,400 --> 00:58:28,240
Um,
you know, you could remove all three of

792
00:58:26,400 --> 00:58:30,480
these, I think. And I feel like we did
discuss this with Leslie at one point.

793
00:58:30,160 --> 00:58:34,960
» Yeah.
>> This is probably I think it's owned by

794
00:58:32,079 --> 00:58:39,359
the town. Um,
>> is there a creek in there?

795
00:58:36,640 --> 00:58:43,119
» Yeah, I think so.
>> Yeah.

796
00:58:39,760 --> 00:58:45,520
» So, it's probably not a
It's undevelopable, right?

797
00:58:44,240 --> 00:58:48,000
» Yeah. I'm pretty sure this is highly
undevelopable.

798
00:58:46,400 --> 00:58:49,920
» So, it doesn't matter what it is.
>> Really?

799
00:58:48,640 --> 00:58:53,040
» So, it could stay on you.
>> Yeah.

800
00:58:51,440 --> 00:58:56,400
Well, if that's what they want.
>> Yes, exactly. So, I don't think this one

801
00:58:54,559 --> 00:58:59,040
matters. I do think these ones, they
don't really feel like they're on park

802
00:58:57,599 --> 00:59:01,920
drive as much to me. So, I think you
could certainly argue for them.

803
00:59:00,640 --> 00:59:05,280
» One is undeveloped, right?
>> Yes. One is undeveloped. I don't really

804
00:59:03,599 --> 00:59:07,839
know the developability of this parcel.
Apparently, the 7th Day Adventists own

805
00:59:06,799 --> 00:59:12,359
this one as well.
>> Yeah.

806
00:59:09,359 --> 00:59:12,359
» Um,

807
00:59:13,359 --> 00:59:22,720
yeah. So when you look at that, it
doesn't in terms of the uni unity of the

808
00:59:21,200 --> 00:59:26,559
zone,
those

809
00:59:24,240 --> 00:59:30,720
two are anomalous.
>> I think you could leave them out.

810
00:59:28,400 --> 00:59:35,359
Honestly, I don't think it's crazy to
have them in there, but kind of based on

811
00:59:32,960 --> 00:59:38,559
the terrain of this road, you know, you
kind of come down, you're on top and

812
00:59:36,960 --> 00:59:42,240
fair, I could very much see, and
especially because you don't border Tops

813
00:59:40,160 --> 00:59:47,200
and Fairl over here,
>> right? I could see suggesting to take

814
00:59:44,400 --> 00:59:51,720
these three out honestly. Um I do think
that that could make some sense.

815
00:59:48,720 --> 00:59:51,720
» Yeah.

816
00:59:54,240 --> 00:59:59,839
» Certainly simplify things.
>> Yeah. So is that that's something that

817
00:59:58,799 --> 01:00:04,559
we should speak to?
>> Um I think it I I didn't didn't prepare

818
01:00:02,720 --> 01:00:09,200
thinking about that one quite honestly.
Um

819
01:00:06,720 --> 01:00:13,200
I didn't.
>> It's a slippery slope

820
01:00:10,160 --> 01:00:16,160
» used for means permitted in MT. Yes.
>> Say more. Say more.

821
01:00:16,000 --> 01:00:20,960
Let
>> me double check if the use is allowable

822
01:00:17,839 --> 01:00:23,920
in the other one. I'm sure it is, but
community assembly is permitted in every

823
01:00:22,720 --> 01:00:26,000
single zone. They're not going to be
impacted no matter where you put them.

824
01:00:25,599 --> 01:00:28,400
» That's good.
>> The church can do what they want.

825
01:00:27,680 --> 01:00:33,680
» Yeah.
>> Um, so I guess, you know,

826
01:00:31,440 --> 01:00:37,040
I don't I don't know. I don't I think I
could say that you you could certainly

827
01:00:35,359 --> 01:00:41,760
see the argument for removing these
three. This one's undevelopable. These

828
01:00:38,960 --> 01:00:46,640
two are owned by a religious institution
that is a permitted use in either zone.

829
01:00:44,160 --> 01:00:50,079
» Um, but I also don't think it doesn't
make sense looking like this if you know

830
01:00:48,720 --> 01:00:55,359
you guys are like it's permitted in that
zone. This one's undevelopable. It is

831
01:00:52,240 --> 01:01:00,640
kind of a transitory between R1 and we
think it makes more sense. But the only

832
01:00:56,720 --> 01:01:02,960
thing I'll say is um
>> Well, I I don't know.

833
01:01:02,160 --> 01:01:06,480
» Keep saying that.
>> No, I it wasn't it wasn't right

834
01:01:04,480 --> 01:01:11,280
actually. So, I'm not going to say it.
Um, I think I had kept thinking that

835
01:01:08,640 --> 01:01:16,400
light industrial not be allowed in
commercial mixed use. Um, but I'm pretty

836
01:01:14,000 --> 01:01:20,240
sure it is
or is it?

837
01:01:18,400 --> 01:01:27,760
Wait, no, I know. Yeah, it's conditional
in both. Um, right.

838
01:01:24,720 --> 01:01:30,400
Yeah. Yeah. So, it doesn't really
because I was going to say, oh, would

839
01:01:28,720 --> 01:01:34,640
you really want light industrial out
here?

840
01:01:32,240 --> 01:01:38,000
But it's actually allowing you.
>> Yeah.

841
01:01:35,839 --> 01:01:44,880
» And in terms of sort of, you know,
having a zone that coheres

842
01:01:43,200 --> 01:01:49,119
as a shape,
>> you know, I wouldn't argue either way.

843
01:01:47,520 --> 01:01:54,720
It's like if they want to change it, let
them change it. Um, that's my feeling.

844
01:01:51,599 --> 01:02:00,960
But, you know, as it or if they're happy
leaving it like this, I I don't I feel

845
01:01:57,680 --> 01:02:04,640
no need to argue change. Mr. is happy
leaving it like this. I think he wants

846
01:02:02,799 --> 01:02:07,119
it all commercial mixed use.
>> Oh.

847
01:02:05,119 --> 01:02:08,319
» And we have to convince him why that's
not

848
01:02:07,520 --> 01:02:12,799
» right.
>> A good idea. That's where I think we

849
01:02:10,160 --> 01:02:14,720
are. And the more pieces that you give
>> Yeah.

850
01:02:13,119 --> 01:02:17,599
» Yeah. to commercial mixed use, the
harder it's going to be to keep the rest

851
01:02:16,160 --> 01:02:20,880
of it mixed transitional.
>> If I was going to give anything, it

852
01:02:19,200 --> 01:02:23,680
would be that libert sliver where the
creek is.

853
01:02:22,880 --> 01:02:28,079
» Crick.
>> Yeah. Creek. Cick. Well, creek if you're

854
01:02:25,599 --> 01:02:31,680
from Pennsylvania, which I am,
>> but I learned. Yeah, I think you can go

855
01:02:30,319 --> 01:02:35,839
either which way with those lots, which
is what I wanted to share. So, I think

856
01:02:33,359 --> 01:02:38,640
that's your I this isn't me going I
don't think this makes sense, guys. You

857
01:02:37,520 --> 01:02:40,799
know, we might want to consider it this
way either way.

858
01:02:39,440 --> 01:02:43,599
» I really think you can look at this from
either direction.

859
01:02:41,680 --> 01:02:48,280
» Yeah.
three

860
01:02:45,280 --> 01:02:48,280
lots.

861
01:02:49,680 --> 01:02:58,000
So, you know what? Recode is proposing
what it's proposing

862
01:02:55,359 --> 01:03:04,720
and let them do with it what they'd
like.

863
01:03:00,480 --> 01:03:08,559
» That's you still want to encourage
I think

864
01:03:07,200 --> 01:03:12,319
housing.
>> Yes, we were calling. That's right.

865
01:03:10,319 --> 01:03:14,160
That's right. as opposed to more
commercial

866
01:03:12,799 --> 01:03:20,160
» commercial. Yeah.
>> Yeah. I will say I think housing is

867
01:03:15,839 --> 01:03:23,039
fully allowed um in the other one.
>> Commercial mixed use.

868
01:03:21,200 --> 01:03:27,359
» Let's see if there any different I can
pull it up rather than looking at it.

869
01:03:25,119 --> 01:03:31,280
» Um
cuz that is part of the idea for the

870
01:03:29,119 --> 01:03:35,200
commercial mixed use is that it be mixed
use.

871
01:03:31,599 --> 01:03:39,359
» Yeah. Um, so,
uh,

872
01:03:37,520 --> 01:03:41,599
it is exactly the same allowances for
those,

873
01:03:40,240 --> 01:03:45,119
» but the fact of the matter is that
nobody's doing that

874
01:03:43,280 --> 01:03:50,720
» in commercial mixed use.
>> Yep. That's fair. And there's there are

875
01:03:47,359 --> 01:03:52,640
80 units going up in MT.
>> Yep.

876
01:03:51,359 --> 01:03:56,240
» Mixed transitional.
>> Mhm. Um,

877
01:03:53,520 --> 01:04:00,799
» how much more
develop developable

878
01:03:59,280 --> 01:04:04,240
acreage is there
>> in empty or

879
01:04:02,160 --> 01:04:07,039
» in mixed? Yeah. Or mixed commercial.
>> In the mixed commercial. I mean, you got

880
01:04:05,440 --> 01:04:09,200
the empty lot for the church. They can
do something if they want.

881
01:04:07,920 --> 01:04:14,319
» I think there's that one.
>> Yeah.

882
01:04:09,920 --> 01:04:16,079
» And then maybe this one, which is empty.
>> Yeah.

883
01:04:14,640 --> 01:04:20,799
» Which I guess actually that's another
one you could consider.

884
01:04:19,039 --> 01:04:26,880
Um,
I'm not suggest I'm just saying, you

885
01:04:22,400 --> 01:04:32,640
know, um, there's like those back there,
which those are empty. Um, and I think

886
01:04:30,720 --> 01:04:35,640
this, uh, the density isn't good there.
Whoopsie.

887
01:04:35,920 --> 01:04:41,160
» Currently, that's Oh my god.

888
01:04:45,680 --> 01:04:51,680
I feel like someone might asked me about
that at one point. So I would probably

889
01:04:48,799 --> 01:04:56,000
expect these to go housing once the
density is upped and because this is

890
01:04:53,839 --> 01:05:01,640
currently mixed use commercial that
>> there's a storage

891
01:04:57,599 --> 01:05:01,640
» right right storage

892
01:05:02,720 --> 01:05:10,240
» and you know much to my surprise we
talked about at once with Leslie that

893
01:05:08,480 --> 01:05:12,799
you could do infill
>> within the tops fair mall

894
01:05:12,240 --> 01:05:17,119
» y
>> you know it's not like it's empty

895
01:05:15,599 --> 01:05:25,359
undeveloped land but it can be
redeveloped Ed as housing um when you

896
01:05:21,039 --> 01:05:30,000
know if there's less demand for retail
>> there's some there's some shifting

897
01:05:28,000 --> 01:05:34,079
» yeah there's some space over here though
mall does pretty well I see the parking

898
01:05:32,000 --> 01:05:37,839
lot full a lot
>> um I think if we're going to see

899
01:05:35,680 --> 01:05:40,960
significant housing
>> it's going to be on the other side

900
01:05:39,119 --> 01:05:45,839
» it's going to be on the other side um
just realistically you know because I

901
01:05:44,000 --> 01:05:51,839
sometimes when I go to like
>> you know Reny's or it. I It's not that

902
01:05:48,960 --> 01:05:57,359
it's impossible to find a parking space,
but I might have to look for a moment,

903
01:05:54,319 --> 01:06:01,119
which is not necessarily common in a
strip mall, quite honestly.

904
01:05:58,480 --> 01:06:08,079
» Unless they go to
um multi-story parking garages. There

905
01:06:03,680 --> 01:06:10,480
isn't there isn't place to build houses.
Yeah.

906
01:06:08,960 --> 01:06:13,680
» And I think that would be that would be
a huge development choice, which I'm not

907
01:06:13,280 --> 01:06:16,960
» Yeah.
>> Don't see that coming quickly. But I can

908
01:06:15,280 --> 01:06:19,440
see all sorts of advantages to it. You
know, you don't have to snowplow the

909
01:06:18,160 --> 01:06:23,119
bottom of the lake. You know, you don't
got this, you don't have to

910
01:06:20,480 --> 01:06:25,599
» There's so many advantages, but it would
be expensive.

911
01:06:23,920 --> 01:06:28,319
» Yeah. Yep. And I think the thing is is,
you know, how would you handle

912
01:06:26,559 --> 01:06:31,839
ownership? There's other things like
that that it's just kind of like, you

913
01:06:30,079 --> 01:06:35,680
know, there is um
>> I mean, there's another pad site over

914
01:06:33,359 --> 01:06:38,400
here. I could, but that's so small. I
don't think you could get anything

915
01:06:36,799 --> 01:06:44,559
meaningful
um over here. So, really, this was the

916
01:06:42,400 --> 01:06:48,160
last big lot. There is this one, but
I've heard it has real geotechnical

917
01:06:46,319 --> 01:06:50,240
concerns. Um, someone was going to do
multif family here and pulled out.

918
01:06:49,839 --> 01:06:55,520
» Mhm.
>> When I was the planner and then here,

919
01:06:53,680 --> 01:06:58,960
you know, we're getting it on that area.
But that's a pretty decently sized area

920
01:06:58,000 --> 01:07:02,559
right there.
>> You're not really seeing that.

921
01:07:00,160 --> 01:07:06,079
» Two, is it two or three apartment
buildings? Four.

922
01:07:04,559 --> 01:07:10,680
» Four. There's two up right now, but it's
going to be four total.

923
01:07:07,680 --> 01:07:10,680
» Um,

924
01:07:11,200 --> 01:07:17,200
» what are you looking at? Oh, the really
green lawns. It's just kind of funny

925
01:07:14,799 --> 01:07:20,559
compared to the other lawns.
>> Um,

926
01:07:18,640 --> 01:07:25,280
» and then there's this one. I would
expect that to probably

927
01:07:23,440 --> 01:07:28,799
» turn into a multif family. That'd be my
guess.

928
01:07:26,480 --> 01:07:35,839
» Yeah.
>> Yeah. So the the strength of the um

929
01:07:33,680 --> 01:07:41,520
rationale for the mixed transitional
zone is that you know in terms of the

930
01:07:39,200 --> 01:07:48,319
need for housing and the current
commitment to 80 units of housing and

931
01:07:44,880 --> 01:07:54,319
the uses allowed along that road is it's
it does um sort of argue for the

932
01:07:51,680 --> 01:07:59,280
existence of the mixed transitional zone
where where those boundaries get drawn.

933
01:07:57,119 --> 01:08:04,000
you know, we don't have to be part of
that argument, but they're drawn the way

934
01:08:01,440 --> 01:08:07,200
they are as a suggestion and they can
take it from there.

935
01:08:06,000 --> 01:08:11,760
» Yeah.
>> And what you've done is given a

936
01:08:10,160 --> 01:08:14,640
developer options.
>> Yeah.

937
01:08:12,160 --> 01:08:16,880
» It's not just that box. It's not
>> here three or four. So,

938
01:08:16,400 --> 01:08:21,600
» yeah,
>> I would think that would be comfortable

939
01:08:18,960 --> 01:08:28,239
to
>> Okay. Who owns all that? Uh, the one

940
01:08:24,400 --> 01:08:28,239
right here. Yeah.

941
01:08:28,319 --> 01:08:31,799
Pop LLC.

942
01:08:32,400 --> 01:08:36,239
» We don't know who that is. I don't know
who that one is.

943
01:08:34,880 --> 01:08:39,440
» Okay.
>> Um,

944
01:08:37,839 --> 01:08:45,759
yeah. I think they might own Life
Storage, though.

945
01:08:42,400 --> 01:08:50,960
» So, no, that's Life Storage LP. Swear to
God, they own somewhere else. It's in

946
01:08:47,600 --> 01:08:56,400
It's in here. So, in terms of the the
the partial by partial, I just want to

947
01:08:54,799 --> 01:09:01,199
make sure that we're not
>> overlooking. So, the

948
01:08:58,719 --> 01:09:04,080
» I think we kind of Yeah, I think we kind
of got distracted so we didn't do the

949
01:09:02,719 --> 01:09:10,960
parcel by parcel. So,
>> yeah. Um there's a vacant lot, but we

950
01:09:08,239 --> 01:09:14,880
So, we've gone through two of them, the
7th Day Adventist and the empty lot. And

951
01:09:13,440 --> 01:09:18,000
then we're looking at
>> I think we've gone through. So if we

952
01:09:16,640 --> 01:09:24,319
talk about goodwill, we'll be finished
with the first that that page three.

953
01:09:21,440 --> 01:09:28,480
» So yes, I can understand the reasons.
>> And is that 11 lot 11 LLC

954
01:09:28,000 --> 01:09:30,000
drive?
>> Yeah.

955
01:09:28,799 --> 01:09:34,799
» Yep.
>> Um and so the use it says it remains

956
01:09:32,960 --> 01:09:38,480
permitted. So because it reflects the
change that we Yes. Yeah. Repale is

957
01:09:36,880 --> 01:09:41,199
permitted. Yeah.
>> Just not the

958
01:09:39,679 --> 01:09:44,480
» Yeah. because the use table that we did
this summer included those changes, I

959
01:09:43,520 --> 01:09:50,000
think.
>> Okay. So, then we look at 70 Park Drive,

960
01:09:47,920 --> 01:09:52,480
which is the
>> Oh, we already did that one. That's the

961
01:09:51,440 --> 01:09:57,280
really skinny one.
>> Okay. Oh, right, right, right.

962
01:09:56,080 --> 01:10:01,239
» Um,
>> 10 Way

963
01:10:02,159 --> 01:10:09,280
and undeveloped.
>> That's old park drive.

964
01:10:06,000 --> 01:10:12,280
But I first
shoot

965
01:10:16,560 --> 01:10:24,080
you didn't put it in the memo. I think I
forgot to put it in the middle. Oh no,

966
01:10:22,239 --> 01:10:27,400
I'm probably going to do revision for
that one.

967
01:10:28,000 --> 01:10:35,600
» So where what is that?
>> It's the housing

968
01:10:32,880 --> 01:10:40,640
units.
That's our fiesta resistance

969
01:10:38,320 --> 01:10:46,560
for the
Yeah.

970
01:10:43,600 --> 01:10:50,440
» Yeah. I think I was just moving all
around and got missed.

971
01:10:51,360 --> 01:10:59,440
Okay. So, then we get to 10 Marman Way,
which is this one, which I would say is

972
01:10:56,880 --> 01:11:05,600
probably also
um

973
01:11:01,440 --> 01:11:10,640
undevelopable. This is a ravine as well.
H

974
01:11:06,640 --> 01:11:13,199
» to the right of that I see a box the
green

975
01:11:11,120 --> 01:11:16,320
» it's green space
>> what the lines have a meeting

976
01:11:14,800 --> 01:11:18,080
» yeah it's a green space for the
subdivision

977
01:11:17,520 --> 01:11:22,320
» okay
>> yeah so it's conserved land the

978
01:11:20,640 --> 01:11:25,679
» conservation
>> frozen walks okay

979
01:11:23,440 --> 01:11:30,560
» yep yep so that's permanently
>> took my bike down there the other day it

980
01:11:28,080 --> 01:11:33,679
it's really nice back there very very
nice homes are nice

981
01:11:32,320 --> 01:11:36,080
» development going on
>> yep It's a nice development

982
01:11:35,040 --> 01:11:36,960
» and that's R1.
>> Mhm.

983
01:11:36,480 --> 01:11:39,600
» Yeah.
>> Very nice.

984
01:11:38,080 --> 01:11:41,280
» Had to have an open space subdivision
get the density though.

985
01:11:40,960 --> 01:11:43,520
» So,
>> right.

986
01:11:41,920 --> 01:11:48,640
» Um,
so we're on 78 Park Drive. Is that Is

987
01:11:46,880 --> 01:11:50,640
that That's it. That's a big lot.
>> Yep.

988
01:11:49,679 --> 01:11:53,040
» Um,
>> it looks like it might have some

989
01:11:51,600 --> 01:11:54,880
shoreline going through it, though, too.
It's a little unclear. It could have

990
01:11:54,320 --> 01:11:59,360
some development.
>> Oh, there's a stream. Yeah, potentially.

991
01:11:56,960 --> 01:12:05,679
I mean, those aren't all real. It could
>> it could have a stream going through it.

992
01:12:01,280 --> 01:12:10,719
» You said check TV. Oh, TDI subdivision.
>> I kind of forgot that was in there. Um,

993
01:12:09,360 --> 01:12:14,000
» they're finding lots of things. There
was a subdivision out there that they

994
01:12:12,560 --> 01:12:19,120
were concerned and I think it was just
that they were concerned that that

995
01:12:16,800 --> 01:12:23,760
subdivision was for commercial reasons
and they wanted to make sure commercial

996
01:12:20,640 --> 01:12:29,440
uses were still allowed. And that I was
actually reminded of it with this one

997
01:12:25,360 --> 01:12:34,560
because this is off of some this picture
is off of some subdivision. I don't know

998
01:12:31,520 --> 01:12:37,600
which one. probably probably Mallet
Woods, but I'm really not sure. And so

999
01:12:36,320 --> 01:12:40,640
then I was thinking about it when I did
this and I honestly forgot to check TDI

1000
01:12:39,440 --> 01:12:46,440
and I probably shouldn't have left that
note in there, but well, it's it's in

1001
01:12:42,480 --> 01:12:46,440
there so we can talk about it.

1002
01:12:46,640 --> 01:12:52,640
Okay.
So then

1003
01:12:49,920 --> 01:12:57,679
there's nothing for us to present there.
Um,

1004
01:12:54,560 --> 01:13:02,880
light manufacturing
62 Park Drive is next.

1005
01:13:01,760 --> 01:13:04,000
Or have we already done that?
>> No, it's right here.

1006
01:13:03,679 --> 01:13:10,400
» Yeah.
>> Um, good. 62 Park Drive is

1007
01:13:07,679 --> 01:13:13,800
» commercial warehouse.
>> Only two floors.

1008
01:13:19,199 --> 01:13:25,040
» You mean permitted? Yeah.
>> No. No.

1009
01:13:22,640 --> 01:13:29,679
That's Oh, yeah, that one's fine. Sorry.
Um Oh, it's jumped down one. My

1010
01:13:27,840 --> 01:13:34,880
apologies. Yeah, use remains permitted
in there.

1011
01:13:31,679 --> 01:13:39,760
This is life storage. Um, we need to
talk about the use because it's kind of

1012
01:13:38,000 --> 01:13:44,719
unclear if it's warehousing or if it's
self storage and self storage is not

1013
01:13:41,360 --> 01:13:47,679
allowed in this zone. And self storage
is a one-story drive up situation. I

1014
01:13:46,719 --> 01:13:50,400
don't think we want allowed in this
zone. So, Tom and I kind of needed to

1015
01:13:49,120 --> 01:13:52,719
figure out how this works.
>> Yeah. Yeah. With a multi-story

1016
01:13:51,760 --> 01:13:55,199
situation.
>> So that is a multi-story.

1017
01:13:54,880 --> 01:13:58,320
» Yeah.
>> Yeah.

1018
01:13:55,920 --> 01:14:01,440
» I've had I mean I've used self storage
in Berlin that was multi multi-level.

1019
01:14:00,800 --> 01:14:03,120
» Mhm.
>> Four five floors.

1020
01:14:02,239 --> 01:14:07,120
» Yeah. We're just trying to figure out
how it fits into use. We don't have a

1021
01:14:04,640 --> 01:14:10,960
problem with it as a concept. Um I think
it would technically trigger self

1022
01:14:08,719 --> 01:14:14,000
storage, but self storage isn't allowed
in this zone. So we're kind of thinking,

1023
01:14:12,239 --> 01:14:18,880
okay, do we want to change the storage
and warehousing one to allow multitory?

1024
01:14:17,280 --> 01:14:21,760
Because this is a much different use
than say

1025
01:14:22,560 --> 01:14:29,520
I did this one recently, which is the
only reason I'm going to pick on them

1026
01:14:28,800 --> 01:14:30,320
» 196.
>> Yeah.

1027
01:14:29,840 --> 01:14:33,280
» Yeah.
>> You know, it's just a very different

1028
01:14:31,600 --> 01:14:38,080
look than
>> um if you guys, you know, it's a very

1029
01:14:35,920 --> 01:14:41,360
different look than this kind of thing
>> and they're kind of two different

1030
01:14:39,679 --> 01:14:44,880
situations. One of them is a rather
dense way of doing storage, which is

1031
01:14:42,960 --> 01:14:49,120
more appropriate to that zone. Yes. So
Tom and I talked about it. I don't think

1032
01:14:46,320 --> 01:14:50,800
we had a a total
um

1033
01:14:49,760 --> 01:14:53,520
» completed.
>> Yeah. So that's why it was noted as we

1034
01:14:52,239 --> 01:14:58,800
just kind of need to discuss it. So we
kind of need to I think have an idea of

1035
01:14:54,880 --> 01:15:04,320
maybe what um you and planning board are
thinking. So

1036
01:15:01,360 --> 01:15:07,360
might be worth considering that. I don't
want to I don't think that it's in

1037
01:15:05,840 --> 01:15:12,080
anyone's best interest and if life
storage should not non-conforming,

1038
01:15:09,600 --> 01:15:17,280
» right? because I do think it's the
appropriate use of storage in this type

1039
01:15:14,320 --> 01:15:18,960
of area to have it be more more dense.
Yeah.

1040
01:15:18,000 --> 01:15:23,760
» Yeah.
>> It's safer in my opinion.

1041
01:15:20,880 --> 01:15:27,760
» Mhm. It is. Yeah. I think that we just
need to figure out how we make it

1042
01:15:25,199 --> 01:15:31,440
allowable is probably probably the
discussion is that no one wants to make

1043
01:15:29,280 --> 01:15:36,560
it not allowed. Do we amend the self
storage so that multi-story ones or

1044
01:15:34,400 --> 01:15:41,040
something or do we amend the storage and
warehousing and say multi-story

1045
01:15:39,040 --> 01:15:44,080
is allowed where this is allowed. We're
not we weren't quite sure and I think it

1046
01:15:42,560 --> 01:15:47,440
felt maybe a little bit beyond us in
some ways too.

1047
01:15:45,199 --> 01:15:50,400
» So how do we leave this in terms of
Thursday?

1048
01:15:48,159 --> 01:15:54,159
» I think that CPIC probably should be
ready if you guys are okay with life

1049
01:15:52,239 --> 01:15:57,280
storage as a use in the location that
it's in. We should be ready to talk

1050
01:15:55,840 --> 01:16:00,960
about, you know, you want to find a way
to make it allowable and how that works

1051
01:15:59,040 --> 01:16:04,000
with the uses you would want the
planning board and staff to figure out

1052
01:16:02,880 --> 01:16:06,800
and that you don't want to make it
non-conforming, but you don't want to

1053
01:16:05,600 --> 01:16:08,800
have
>> single story.

1054
01:16:07,600 --> 01:16:12,640
» Single story,
>> self storage.

1055
01:16:10,880 --> 01:16:16,000
» What What are the characteristics that
make it safer?

1056
01:16:13,920 --> 01:16:19,760
» You're inside a building.
>> So, if somebody wants to break in, first

1057
01:16:17,760 --> 01:16:23,120
they have to break into the building and
then they have to break into the

1058
01:16:21,120 --> 01:16:26,719
individual storage units. When you have
those long ones that are one level

1059
01:16:24,719 --> 01:16:30,080
outside, all you have to do is bust into
the you bust into the the the door.

1060
01:16:29,600 --> 01:16:32,960
» Yeah.
>> There's nothing between you.

1061
01:16:32,239 --> 01:16:34,800
» You know,
>> any item you want to store.

1062
01:16:34,480 --> 01:16:38,800
» Yeah.
>> Yeah.

1063
01:16:36,560 --> 01:16:43,280
» And it's probably, if it's done right,
it's climate controlled.

1064
01:16:41,920 --> 01:16:47,440
So, you've got air conditioning and
heating and you don't have that in the

1065
01:16:45,679 --> 01:16:50,239
in the ones that are single level.
>> Yeah.

1066
01:16:48,960 --> 01:16:52,640
» Yep. Which is Yeah.
>> Yeah. Yeah. So, I think probably just

1067
01:16:51,360 --> 01:16:55,520
coming to say like we want to allow
this. We don't want to make them

1068
01:16:53,600 --> 01:16:58,560
non-conforming. However, we need to
amend definitions to get there.

1069
01:16:57,840 --> 01:17:03,320
» We support
>> definitions. Yeah. Amend definition.

1070
01:17:04,480 --> 01:17:12,000
» Okay. Great. So, moving on to 11 Sand
Hill Road.

1071
01:17:09,600 --> 01:17:15,120
» Also, that's what we're just did. We
just did that. I think we're on 46 Park

1072
01:17:13,840 --> 01:17:20,320
Drive,
>> which is um

1073
01:17:17,760 --> 01:17:24,560
warehouse light manufacturing. Yeah.
>> Remains permitted. One of those

1074
01:17:22,239 --> 01:17:26,159
hallmarks of Park Drive manufacturing
kind of right in here.

1075
01:17:25,440 --> 01:17:28,080
» Light.
>> Yep.

1076
01:17:26,640 --> 01:17:33,199
» Yep.
>> Okay. Then on to 47.

1077
01:17:30,400 --> 01:17:37,199
» I think effectively the same thing. This
is um the granite place.

1078
01:17:36,320 --> 01:17:38,080
» Yep.
>> Morning Star.

1079
01:17:37,840 --> 01:17:39,600
» Yep.
>> Yep.

1080
01:17:38,400 --> 01:17:42,400
» Yeah. I forgot the name.
>> 47.

1081
01:17:41,280 --> 01:17:48,480
Yep.
>> Um so the use is permitted. All good.

1082
01:17:45,040 --> 01:17:52,560
» Yep. on to cell 12 Sand Hill Road
>> which is this one

1083
01:17:49,600 --> 01:17:56,000
» also Morning Star
>> used.

1084
01:17:53,040 --> 01:17:58,000
» No. Oh, it is. Didn't consider that.
Yep.

1085
01:17:56,560 --> 01:18:00,960
» So, I didn't realize Morning Star owned
that one. Yep.

1086
01:17:58,880 --> 01:18:06,239
» Developable land,
>> but it doesn't front on Park Drive. What

1087
01:18:04,239 --> 01:18:09,600
is So, there's this little
>> It's accessible from Monument.

1088
01:18:08,400 --> 01:18:12,560
» Uhhuh.
>> Yeah.

1089
01:18:10,880 --> 01:18:16,719
» Okay. So,
>> interesting. These four are kind of a

1090
01:18:14,719 --> 01:18:22,159
strange one and you know you may want to
be ready to discuss

1091
01:18:18,800 --> 01:18:26,400
» those I guess. Um
>> so

1092
01:18:24,239 --> 01:18:30,880
the other so to the left of that one
you've got there to the left is that in

1093
01:18:29,440 --> 01:18:34,080
» also in the mix transitional.
>> Oh is it okay?

1094
01:18:31,679 --> 01:18:37,679
» That's the one below which is
>> for Sand Hill.

1095
01:18:35,760 --> 01:18:41,679
» Yeah. Um, and that's the one that I
would I think I've had people ask about

1096
01:18:40,000 --> 01:18:44,320
doing multif family there before and
once the density shoots up there I could

1097
01:18:43,520 --> 01:18:48,000
see happening.
>> Yeah. Great. So that

1098
01:18:46,080 --> 01:18:51,360
» I think theity isn't great there right
now,

1099
01:18:49,280 --> 01:18:54,159
» but it fits great in mixed transitional.
>> I think it's fine there.

1100
01:18:52,480 --> 01:18:57,679
» Yeah, good.
>> Okay, that's four. Moving on to 30.

1101
01:18:57,360 --> 01:19:00,960
Where's
>> I guess all I'd say for this one is I

1102
01:18:59,600 --> 01:19:03,920
could see that one going either way. I
mean there's not a huge difference

1103
01:19:02,159 --> 01:19:07,840
between mixed transitional and
commercial mixed juice except for the

1104
01:19:05,280 --> 01:19:12,159
allowance of the warehouse building I
think potentially is not allowed in

1105
01:19:10,159 --> 01:19:16,159
commercial mixed juice and the suburban
storefront is not allowed in mixed

1106
01:19:13,360 --> 01:19:17,679
transitional potentially. I'm actually
not sure

1107
01:19:16,640 --> 01:19:20,800
» important.
>> Yeah. No, no, no. So I'm just saying for

1108
01:19:19,440 --> 01:19:26,239
what we're talking about I don't really
see it as a big deal. I could see it

1109
01:19:22,239 --> 01:19:32,159
going either way. Um
and suburban storefront is

1110
01:19:29,840 --> 01:19:36,400
the workshop is not allowed in
commercial. So it is kind of through

1111
01:19:33,520 --> 01:19:42,080
form commercial mixed use is a little
less industrial focused and mixed

1112
01:19:38,960 --> 01:19:44,239
transitional is and
retail wise it goes the other way

1113
01:19:43,440 --> 01:19:49,719
through form.
>> Yeah. Um,

1114
01:19:46,719 --> 01:19:49,719
so

1115
01:19:50,159 --> 01:20:01,520
any comments before we
>> move on to 30?

1116
01:19:56,159 --> 01:20:04,560
Where's 30? Okay, 30 drive 30
>> office.

1117
01:20:01,920 --> 01:20:07,199
» This is I think
>> professional office.

1118
01:20:05,679 --> 01:20:11,120
» It's a professional office. So this one
would go to permitted with what we just

1119
01:20:09,120 --> 01:20:15,360
talked about earlier. So
>> that's important.

1120
01:20:12,000 --> 01:20:20,880
» Yep. Um, and then
this is 25.

1121
01:20:18,320 --> 01:20:23,920
Um, same thing. So, here's the third.
Yeah. So, this is when I was starting to

1122
01:20:22,400 --> 01:20:27,440
be like, huh, maybe we should let
professional maybe we should let office

1123
01:20:25,760 --> 01:20:30,320
just be permitted. Like, I found the
three so far.

1124
01:20:28,480 --> 01:20:32,320
» Yeah, that's the endodonics place.
>> Oh, is it?

1125
01:20:30,880 --> 01:20:35,360
» I think access.
>> Okay. Yeah. So, this one's a medical

1126
01:20:33,600 --> 01:20:37,440
one, but it falls under, as you can see,
it's already falling under

1127
01:20:37,040 --> 01:20:42,159
» Yeah.
>> medical or just professional office. Um

1128
01:20:40,880 --> 01:20:44,960
and then this is the date
>> 24. Is that 24?

1129
01:20:43,760 --> 01:20:50,800
» Y okay.
>> Um it remains permitted.

1130
01:20:49,040 --> 01:20:54,880
» Great.
Okay.

1131
01:20:52,640 --> 01:20:57,520
So then we get into Okay. Now so now we
have we're nearly at the end of our

1132
01:20:56,560 --> 01:20:59,600
time.
>> Yep.

1133
01:20:58,480 --> 01:21:02,080
» Yeah. Is that right?
>> Yes.

1134
01:21:00,239 --> 01:21:08,080
» Yeah. Start hour really.
>> So planned commercial development. I

1135
01:21:05,679 --> 01:21:14,320
mean, I wouldn't agree about getting too
far into this. Quite honestly, I tried

1136
01:21:10,719 --> 01:21:18,719
to lay out to them what it is, what it
what it is required to do, how it aligns

1137
01:21:17,040 --> 01:21:20,960
with article 2. I'm meeting Tom and I
are meeting with Leslie tomorrow to talk

1138
01:21:20,400 --> 01:21:23,520
about it.
>> Okay.

1139
01:21:21,360 --> 01:21:28,880
» I do genuinely think that in many ways
that PCD was kind of absorbed into the

1140
01:21:26,239 --> 01:21:33,280
concept of article 2, but I didn't see
that

1141
01:21:30,719 --> 01:21:38,480
spelled out here.
>> Yeah. And I thought that might have

1142
01:21:34,640 --> 01:21:45,600
been, you know, that all that most of
the goals of the PCD are achieved in

1143
01:21:43,440 --> 01:21:48,880
recodes 10 center zones.
>> Yeah, I say the formbbased code

1144
01:21:47,440 --> 01:21:52,719
requirements vertical 2 seem to build
upon the ideas of the PCD at a larger

1145
01:21:50,880 --> 01:21:55,440
more encompassing scale focusing on
creating a pattern of development with

1146
01:21:54,080 --> 01:21:59,199
an integrated design requiring
pedestrian friendly development and a

1147
01:21:56,880 --> 01:22:02,239
sense of community through form. The FBC
is only found in areas of town that are

1148
01:22:00,560 --> 01:22:06,400
served by water and sewer as PCDs were
intended to be. Article 2 does not have

1149
01:22:04,320 --> 01:22:10,400
limitations on sensitive beyond form.
Allows multiple buildings to be sighted

1150
01:22:07,920 --> 01:22:14,480
on one lot if they front on a street or
courtyard and allow minimal setbacks

1151
01:22:12,159 --> 01:22:16,960
internally. When discussing PCDs in
relation to article 2, it seems that

1152
01:22:15,600 --> 01:22:20,080
they are not necessary in the zone as
the intent of them was carried forward.

1153
01:22:18,719 --> 01:22:22,719
If there are concerns of the zoning
requirements of the zone which they are

1154
01:22:21,280 --> 01:22:28,080
located in, we should discuss those when
we discuss article 2 as they would no

1155
01:22:24,480 --> 01:22:31,280
doubt apply to all.
If you guys would like to say more about

1156
01:22:29,760 --> 01:22:37,199
this, please go ahead. I did want to
give you that option to have a place to

1157
01:22:33,920 --> 01:22:45,920
speak. It's it to me it's like we have
had no um

1158
01:22:41,040 --> 01:22:51,280
no real expertise in PCDs you know and
>> so it's really I I think we are relying

1159
01:22:49,360 --> 01:22:58,080
on
you know your understanding of what PCDs

1160
01:22:55,760 --> 01:23:05,440
are designed to do
>> and if recode actually achieves the

1161
01:23:02,639 --> 01:23:09,840
majority of what the PCD is designed to
do.

1162
01:23:07,840 --> 01:23:13,600
What are we talking about?
>> You know, um

1163
01:23:11,120 --> 01:23:17,360
» yeah, I think that that's one way to
look at it. Um you know, I try to let

1164
01:23:16,080 --> 01:23:22,320
them make a lot of their own
determinations about these things. Um in

1165
01:23:20,560 --> 01:23:26,400
some ways,
and I like to try to strike that balance

1166
01:23:25,040 --> 01:23:30,239
between this is what I'm seeing and this
is one way to look at it between telling

1167
01:23:28,400 --> 01:23:35,639
them this is what something is just
because there are multiple ways to look

1168
01:23:31,679 --> 01:23:35,639
at it. Um,

1169
01:23:37,040 --> 01:23:43,440
I'm not sure how they'll approach this
quite honestly.

1170
01:23:41,360 --> 01:23:48,239
» Yeah.
And depending on how they approach it,

1171
01:23:45,360 --> 01:23:52,080
what will be the effect?
>> I think it partially depends on whether

1172
01:23:49,679 --> 01:23:56,159
or not they read it read article two and
really understand what's going on

1173
01:23:53,840 --> 01:24:01,679
because we haven't gotten into it very
much. I think that the the fact is that

1174
01:23:58,639 --> 01:24:05,600
if they want to keep PCDs that we'll
just need to talk about them again when

1175
01:24:03,199 --> 01:24:09,520
we get to article two and how the
requirements of article 2 would play

1176
01:24:07,120 --> 01:24:14,639
with them as a use because one thing
that we note is that the PCDs when they

1177
01:24:12,560 --> 01:24:18,719
were created they were required to
adhere to the dimensional table at

1178
01:24:16,400 --> 01:24:22,880
external lot lines right um and that
they just weren't updated with the table

1179
01:24:20,480 --> 01:24:26,719
of dimensional requirements which has
been beneficial to some people using

1180
01:24:25,520 --> 01:24:32,880
PCDs
to, you know, build things. Um, and that

1181
01:24:31,520 --> 01:24:38,960
if we want to keep them in the center
zones, we need to make sure that the

1182
01:24:34,239 --> 01:24:43,360
form requirements underlying would be
kept because the intent of a PCD was not

1183
01:24:41,520 --> 01:24:46,080
to get out of and if they have issues
with the form, we need to talk about

1184
01:24:44,480 --> 01:24:49,440
that as a whole. PCD shouldn't be the
way of getting out of it. So, that's

1185
01:24:47,600 --> 01:24:53,120
kind of the concept is I just this is
what it is. what is it actually

1186
01:24:50,800 --> 01:24:56,320
providing that's a benefit
that isn't just an issue that we have

1187
01:24:54,719 --> 01:24:59,920
with article 2 that may need to be fixed
for everyone that would fall under

1188
01:24:58,000 --> 01:25:03,360
article 2. So that's that's the way that
I see it and I'm hoping that's the take

1189
01:25:01,360 --> 01:25:09,679
they'll take what they'll have to take
away from it. But yeah,

1190
01:25:04,880 --> 01:25:14,800
» we should try to avoid them making a
fixed and firm decision that we will do

1191
01:25:12,400 --> 01:25:18,560
PCDs and instead kick the can
>> in the center zones. in the center zone.

1192
01:25:17,120 --> 01:25:23,040
in the center fields have kicked the can
down the road for further discussion

1193
01:25:21,440 --> 01:25:27,199
» if they want to keep them if they were
to go okay well wow you know maybe these

1194
01:25:24,880 --> 01:25:30,400
aren't as necessary
>> it bears further discussion that we're

1195
01:25:28,800 --> 01:25:33,920
not ready
>> for decision

1196
01:25:31,600 --> 01:25:38,320
» I don't think that probably a decision
should be reached on like I mean if they

1197
01:25:36,239 --> 01:25:43,679
were to say okay we want to keep PCDs in
the center zones okay but when we come

1198
01:25:41,120 --> 01:25:47,760
back to article two it would be we need
to change the PCD language to have all

1199
01:25:45,679 --> 01:25:52,159
of these things in
So that that it isn't some get out of

1200
01:25:49,760 --> 01:25:54,560
free get out of zoning free card, you
know,

1201
01:25:53,040 --> 01:26:00,159
» and that you aren't applicable that it
would just be updated to apply to all,

1202
01:25:56,719 --> 01:26:06,880
» you know, things. That's that's my hope.
>> And I'm be I'm curious like, you know,

1203
01:26:03,440 --> 01:26:13,760
the the way the PCD is designed, it's
supposed to be in areas where it already

1204
01:26:10,080 --> 01:26:17,920
served by public water and public sewer,
>> but it's not always. it is allowed in

1205
01:26:16,560 --> 01:26:22,560
zones that don't have those, which is
interesting to me. So, it's kind of a

1206
01:26:19,840 --> 01:26:26,239
strange little thing. Um, that I think
and how I see it is that, you know, the

1207
01:26:24,400 --> 01:26:30,560
concept of that probably at the time was
needed and necessary to allow some of

1208
01:26:28,159 --> 01:26:34,400
the development that we see happened and
that article 2 builds upon that idea

1209
01:26:32,719 --> 01:26:41,920
that you can be more flexible with
citing things online. You can allow more

1210
01:26:36,880 --> 01:26:45,199
uses in near each other. Um, and it
doesn't need that use because the

1211
01:26:43,679 --> 01:26:48,239
entirety of article 2 is kind of
allowing those things. That's that's how

1212
01:26:46,719 --> 01:26:52,560
I kind of took it. I do need to meet
with Leslie tomorrow. She brought up

1213
01:26:50,639 --> 01:26:56,719
MPD, which is a little concerning to me
because if MPD is the sequel to PCD,

1214
01:26:55,760 --> 01:27:03,199
that's a much more difficult
conversation in my opinion. So, I will

1215
01:26:58,320 --> 01:27:08,320
see what she has to say. Right.
>> Well, and and you know, it was clear to

1216
01:27:05,760 --> 01:27:15,760
you, I think, in looking at the MPD that
there is an affinity there to talk about

1217
01:27:11,920 --> 01:27:19,600
um what do we what is the verbiage?
>> It's really simil I mean, it's got parts

1218
01:27:17,360 --> 01:27:23,120
of subdivision site plan in it. It's
just kind of a combination of all of our

1219
01:27:21,360 --> 01:27:27,840
» subdivision. is not something that Cbec
CPC focused on at all because it's

1220
01:27:25,199 --> 01:27:33,360
outside the town centers and but where
there is an affinity there in terms of

1221
01:27:30,000 --> 01:27:40,719
what's being asked of a developer and
required of a developer um I don't know

1222
01:27:36,960 --> 01:27:44,719
if Leslie took that on
conceptually you know at least in even a

1223
01:27:43,760 --> 01:27:48,719
little bit yeah
>> that would be helpful so we've actually

1224
01:27:46,880 --> 01:27:52,480
got two more pages which we obviously
don't have time to do it's not too

1225
01:27:50,719 --> 01:27:55,280
» it's nothing really it's just um
>> goes into the use table.

1226
01:27:53,520 --> 01:27:59,920
» It's just what changed in the use table
which is very few things um household

1227
01:27:57,679 --> 01:28:01,440
living was changed to do the main
street.

1228
01:28:00,320 --> 01:28:06,320
» They made those decisions.
>> Yep. They made those decisions and then

1229
01:28:03,520 --> 01:28:10,239
the follow-up questions um our
drive-throughs are in article 7.

1230
01:28:08,159 --> 01:28:13,920
» I love the mobile food thing.
>> Yeah, that felt like that was going to

1231
01:28:12,000 --> 01:28:17,520
solve the issues that we needed. So
hopefully they'll like that. And then

1232
01:28:15,440 --> 01:28:20,320
the other one I took that to mean and
please make sure this is done at some

1233
01:28:18,800 --> 01:28:22,000
point. So I'll have Evelyn working on
that.

1234
01:28:20,560 --> 01:28:24,560
» Yeah. at some point actually a little
bit more subtle.

1235
01:28:23,679 --> 01:28:27,280
» Great.
>> Yeah.

1236
01:28:26,000 --> 01:28:32,960
» Okay.
>> And I think the only question I'd have

1237
01:28:30,239 --> 01:28:33,920
is um and I know we're at the end of the
meeting.

1238
01:28:33,360 --> 01:28:37,679
» Yeah.
>> I think we've gone over these uses. I

1239
01:28:35,760 --> 01:28:40,000
feel pretty good with these uses.
>> Yeah.

1240
01:28:38,080 --> 01:28:45,520
» And I think you guys have gotten pretty
far through the use table, but they will

1241
01:28:43,199 --> 01:28:51,280
be talking about uses in the UV and the
MT. you guys were going like this and

1242
01:28:48,480 --> 01:28:54,159
they switched it to going like, you
know, this.

1243
01:28:52,560 --> 01:28:58,639
» So, we should just have a look at those.
>> Just make sure that there's nothing in

1244
01:28:55,360 --> 01:29:02,000
the MT or the UV usewise that you guys
are uncomfortable with or that was a

1245
01:29:00,560 --> 01:29:06,159
mistake or something.
>> Um, I don't expect there to be, but

1246
01:29:04,080 --> 01:29:10,800
yeah, I would feel remiss if I didn't
bring that up.

1247
01:29:07,440 --> 01:29:15,920
» So, how about we adjourn at 5:29?
>> All right, let me shut down the Zoom.

1248
01:29:12,639 --> 01:29:18,880
Let me shut down the Zoom. We now we've
closed the meeting.