[0:00] Okay, we are recording.
[0:03] >> Excellent. End it at 6:30.
[0:09] Good evening. Seeing the presence of a
[0:11] quorum, I am calling the uh August 31st,
[0:13] 2026 special meeting work session of the
[0:16] town council to order at 6:30 p.m.
[0:19] Please be advised that this meeting is
[0:21] being held in person and that the remote
[0:22] access option for members of the public
[0:24] is provided as a courtesy only. In the
[0:26] event of technology issues with the
[0:28] remote connection, the meeting will
[0:29] continue in person as scheduled as long
[0:31] as there is a quorum of the council
[0:32] present in the town room or through
[0:33] technological means. Chapter 2 of the
[0:36] acts of 2025 extended through June 30,
[0:38] 2027, the ability of public bodies to
[0:41] meet without a quorum of the council
[0:42] physically present at the meeting
[0:44] location, although a quorum is present
[0:45] in the town room. This meeting is being
[0:48] recorded and is accessible in real time
[0:50] via Zoom, by phone, and is a live
[0:52] broadcast on Ammerst Media Channel 9 and
[0:54] at ammerismedia.org. board. At this
[0:57] time, I will call upon each counselor by
[0:58] the name they have indicated that they
[1:00] would like to be addressed. This will
[1:02] indicate that we can hear you and you
[1:04] can hear us. Councelor Breick,
[1:06] >> yes.
[1:06] >> Councelor Kennel Martin,
[1:08] >> present.
[1:09] >> Andy Churchill,
[1:10] >> yes.
[1:11] >> Anna Deongier,
[1:13] uh, Lyn Greimer,
[1:14] >> present.
[1:15] >> Mandy Johan is present. Councelor Lord,
[1:18] >> present.
[1:19] >> Sam Mloud,
[1:20] >> present.
[1:21] >> Pam,
[1:22] >> here.
[1:23] >> Councelor Ryan,
[1:24] >> I'm here. Kathy Shane,
[1:26] >> I'm here.
[1:26] >> Jennifer Tub
[1:28] >> here.
[1:29] >> And councelor Walker
[1:31] is not here yet. Um, if counselors have
[1:34] technical issues, please let the council
[1:36] clerk know or call a point of personal
[1:38] privilege. Uh, there will be one public
[1:40] comment period during this work session.
[1:43] Um, if you are in the town room, please
[1:45] sign up with the council clerk to make
[1:46] public comment. If you are attending
[1:48] remotely, I will ask for you to raise
[1:50] your hand in the Zoom application when
[1:51] we reach the time for public comment.
[1:53] is at the end of this
[1:55] work session tonight, which is a slight
[1:58] change from our typical meetings. Um,
[2:03] tonight the council meets in a work
[2:05] session to continue the town's work to
[2:07] review the current zoning on the
[2:09] Hampshire College campus. Following
[2:11] Hampshire College's announcement that it
[2:14] will cease academic operations as a
[2:16] college after December 2026, the town of
[2:18] Ammerst initiated a study to develop
[2:21] zoning options for future use of the
[2:23] Hampshire campus property. With the
[2:25] support of our state legislators,
[2:27] Senator Kmerford and Representative Dom,
[2:29] and especially the guidance of Governor
[2:30] Hilly's team and especially Lieutenant
[2:33] Governor Driscoll, Mass Development
[2:35] offered substantial technical assistance
[2:37] in the form of professional consultants
[2:39] to help the town through this process.
[2:41] Mass Development is a state agency that
[2:43] partners with businesses, nonprofits,
[2:44] and municipalities to stimulate economic
[2:47] growth, create jobs, and develop
[2:49] housing. The purpose and goal of this
[2:51] council work session is for counselors
[2:53] to expand upon the vote we took on our
[2:56] priorities for the campus by
[2:58] brainstorming ideas for the Hampshire
[2:59] campus zoning project and identifying
[3:02] goals, concerns, and questions in order
[3:04] to assist the consultants in their work.
[3:07] This is a time for counselors to air
[3:09] their ideas, priorities, and concerns,
[3:11] not to debate or deliberate on other
[3:13] counselor's comments. This is a
[3:15] brainstorming session, not a
[3:16] deliberation on a specific proposal.
[3:19] It is important to note that we do not
[3:21] speak for Hampshire College nor for its
[3:23] president or board of trustees. The
[3:26] college is the owner of the land and has
[3:27] the final say in its disposition. We are
[3:30] focused on zoning options. The
[3:32] consultants will be jointly facilitating
[3:34] the meeting with me. They will start
[3:36] with a short short presentation then
[3:38] move to a series of prompting questions
[3:39] for us to respond to and may use
[3:41] additional time to gain further
[3:43] information on counselor responses. Work
[3:46] sessions permit informal polls, but no
[3:48] formal votes. The consultants may choose
[3:51] to conduct informal polls to gauge the
[3:53] sense of the council on certain items,
[3:55] or they may not. These sense of the
[3:57] council polls, if they're done, are
[3:58] simply to help the consultants conduct
[4:00] their work. I have a few requests for
[4:02] counselors so that all counselors have
[4:04] an opportunity to equally contribute.
[4:06] After each prompt, there will be a quick
[4:08] roundroin style of responses from
[4:10] counselors. Please present your top
[4:13] three items for each prompt quickly and
[4:15] concisely in this first round. It should
[4:18] take you no more than a minute to do so.
[4:21] I will recognize counselors during this
[4:23] time in a random order so that all 13
[4:25] counselors have a chance to respond
[4:27] without having to raise their hands and
[4:29] I have already set that random order for
[4:32] each of the prompts. Um, and it is
[4:34] random. Please do not enter prolonged
[4:37] debate or deliberation. Our purpose at
[4:39] the work session is to get information
[4:41] out there for the consultants. Um, and
[4:44] do your best to not repeat something
[4:46] that's already been said. Although in
[4:47] the first round, Robin, I get that that
[4:49] will happen. Um, but if we go on to
[4:53] further discussion, please try to limit
[4:55] your comments so that we can get as many
[4:56] ideas and brainstorms out there as
[4:58] possible. The structure of the meeting
[5:00] has assumed that all counselors have
[5:02] watched the July 21st public meeting
[5:04] with the consultants and read all of the
[5:06] materials provided in the packet. The
[5:09] goal is to address all three prompting
[5:10] questions within a 2-hour meeting.
[5:12] Therefore, we may wrap up discussion on
[5:14] one question while there are still
[5:15] counselors who wish to add information
[5:17] so that we are able to get through all
[5:19] of the questions. Public comment will be
[5:21] taken at the end of the meeting with
[5:23] each commenter having two minutes to
[5:25] make their comment. We also have our new
[5:28] a new website at
[5:29] hampshireampuszzoningstudy.com.
[5:32] The website is the repository for all
[5:34] information about the work on Hampshire
[5:36] campus zoning, presentations, past
[5:38] studies, and provides the opportunity to
[5:40] pose questions and sign up to receive
[5:42] notices and updates. I thank everyone
[5:45] and especially counselors in advance for
[5:47] your cooperation and help in ensuring
[5:49] that we are able to make the work most
[5:50] of this work session. With that, I'm
[5:54] going
[5:54] >> a quick point of order. Sure. Councelor
[5:55] Walker has joined us and and also if you
[5:58] would please speak a little bit closer
[5:59] to your microphone. Thank you.
[6:00] >> Okay. I don't have the high high one so
[6:05] I will get closer to it. Thank you. Um
[6:07] councelor Walker, can you hear us?
[6:08] >> Yes. Thank you.
[6:10] >> Thank you. Um with that um we will move
[6:12] into the work session Hampshire campus
[6:14] zonian study and move to Jeff Bag, our
[6:17] um planning director.
[6:20] >> Great. Thank you. Um I am Jeff Bag. from
[6:23] the town's director of planning and
[6:24] economic development. I I wanted to
[6:26] thank you very much for creating this
[6:28] opportunity to update the council and to hear from you at this stage of the
[6:33] zoning study. We are really thankful to
[6:36] Mass Development for providing the town
[6:38] with the technical assistance. They have
[6:41] created an initiative called the
[6:44] communities affected by college closures
[6:47] and we've been working with them for a
[6:49] period of time now and we're entering a
[6:51] phase two and so pending final approval
[6:55] um we're going to be hosting the next
[6:56] inerson sessions and I wanted to just
[6:59] make a quick announcement on those.
[7:01] They're going to be Tuesday September
[7:03] 22nd and Thursday September 24th at the
[7:07] Eric Carl Museum. So, we'll have some
[7:10] outreach that's going to happen this
[7:12] week. I just figured I would say that
[7:13] and have people mark their calendars.
[7:15] Those are going to be in the evenings.
[7:17] Um, and we'll talk about them a little
[7:19] bit in in the presentation.
[7:22] And I the other two things uh the
[7:24] council president mentioned a few things
[7:25] that were on my list so I'll jump around
[7:27] but the team um here presented to the
[7:30] planning board on August 19th and they
[7:33] as a board were supportive of the
[7:35] proactive approach and identified the
[7:38] importance of creating a mixeduse
[7:40] village center advocated for higher
[7:42] density housing including workforce and
[7:45] starter housing and encourage outside of
[7:47] the box thinking given the unique
[7:49] opportunity.
[7:52] It's important to reiterate that our
[7:55] project involves zoning options for the
[7:57] property that could support future uses
[7:58] in line with the goals and the vision of
[8:00] the town. The town is not acquiring the
[8:02] land. It's not choosing what happens or
[8:06] ultimately who acquires the land. Those
[8:08] decisions will be made by the trustees.
[8:11] Um for interested people, the website
[8:14] again is hampshireampusoningstudy.com.
[8:17] And I think with that I'm going to hand
[8:19] it over to our team from Horsely Whitten
[8:21] and Dodson and Blinker for the
[8:23] presentation followed by the facilitated
[8:25] discussion.
[8:28] >> Thank you Jeff and thank you uh all
[8:30] counselors for having us here this
[8:31] evening. Um you go to the next slide
[8:34] please. So tonight we'll go through a
[8:36] brief presentation um as was already
[8:39] mentioned where we'll talk about our
[8:40] process um our how it aligns with town
[8:43] plans and policies and then some
[8:46] different zoning considerations. We're
[8:47] really at sort of the beginning of
[8:49] starting to think about how we want to
[8:51] crack the code on like opening the the
[8:53] sort of once in a-lifetime opportunity
[8:55] that you have here. here and we've done
[8:57] a little research as well um and
[8:59] bringing some of our own uh experience
[9:01] to the table where we've seen other
[9:03] communities uh grapple with similar
[9:05] situations singular large site
[9:08] redevelopment opportunities whether it
[9:10] was an industrial complex or a hospital
[9:12] or whatever it may have been. Uh this
[9:14] does happen uh quite frequently and so
[9:17] other communities have done this and
[9:18] we're trying to learn from that as we go
[9:20] along and then we'll have our discussion
[9:22] as we as we mentioned. Next slide
[9:24] please.
[9:26] So our team
[9:28] um is as Jeff said obviously the town of
[9:31] Amherst is at the core of this. This is
[9:33] a project technical assistance for the
[9:35] town uh with mass development support.
[9:38] Um Horley Whitten Group is a planning
[9:41] engineer design firm. I'm the lead
[9:44] planner, principal planner at the firm
[9:46] and we do a lot of zoning work, a lot of
[9:48] technical uh work around planning for
[9:51] zoning and site development. So we bring
[9:53] that development perspective um and
[9:56] natural resource protection perspective
[9:58] to the process when we when we do this.
[10:01] Uh U3 advisors is not here tonight but
[10:04] they're along with us on the real estate
[10:07] side. So U3 will help us test different
[10:10] scenarios uh particularly in terms of
[10:12] fiscal impacts. So as we go through this
[10:15] process and we start to think about the
[10:17] scale and the mix of uses, we'll have U3
[10:20] with us to sort of reality check that
[10:22] and talk about, you know, how productive
[10:25] that would be, how attractive that would
[10:26] be from a financial real estate market
[10:29] perspective. And then to my left, uh,
[10:32] Peter Flinker of Dodson and Flinker.
[10:34] Peter and I have worked together for for
[10:36] quite a while now doing this type of
[10:38] work and where Worsley Whitten sort of
[10:40] brings that technical science
[10:42] development background. Uh Peter's group
[10:45] is just fantastic designers. Um and so
[10:47] they help us think about how sites will
[10:50] be laid out, how the the community
[10:53] neighborhood design aspect might occur.
[10:56] Um you know what works best for a site.
[10:58] They site design in a very
[11:00] contextsensitive manner. Um, so very
[11:03] sensitive again to the landscape, the
[11:05] natural resources, all of those things.
[11:07] So we really, you know, have worked well
[11:09] together over a couple of decades um in
[11:11] this type of thing, helping communities
[11:13] visualize development and eventually
[11:15] take that to zoning. Next slide, please.
[11:19] So our process, which uh Peter will go
[11:22] through in a little bit more uh depth,
[11:24] as I mentioned or as Jeff mentioned, we
[11:27] will have opportunities for engagement.
[11:29] Uh we are just getting started and Peter
[11:31] will talk about a more robust
[11:32] opportunity with the 20 the later
[11:35] September meetings. Um I mentioned the
[11:38] fiscal analyses that are going to occur.
[11:40] Worsley Whitt's looking at the
[11:41] infrastructure piece as well because we
[11:43] have the engineers on staff. We'll be
[11:45] thinking about water, wastewater,
[11:47] roadway capacity as we go through this
[11:49] and then we'll get to the
[11:50] recommendations process. Our goal is to
[11:53] have this zoning fully drafted a full
[11:56] package by January. Next slide, please.
[12:02] » Good evening, everyone. Nice to be here.
[12:04] Um, so we've laid out a process that'll
[12:07] go over the next four months, basically
[12:09] 18 to 20 weeks. Um, and there's sort of
[12:12] a parallel tracks of there's sort of a
[12:15] public engagement and planning process.
[12:18] And then there's going to be the fiscal
[12:20] analysis process, which you see down
[12:22] toward the bottom of the slide. And then
[12:23] throughout this, we'll be testing
[12:25] various approaches to zoning to try to
[12:28] find the best fit between the zoning
[12:31] strategies and the sort of planning and
[12:34] design strategies for this site. So,
[12:36] it'll start with uh two public meetings
[12:39] September 22nd and 24th. The first of
[12:42] those we like to use as kind of a
[12:45] listening session uh sort of before you
[12:48] start putting pictures on the wall and
[12:50] having people react to just let people
[12:52] sort of talk about uh what they care
[12:54] about, what they're concerned about,
[12:55] what their hopes are for the future.
[12:57] We'll also be sharing everything that we
[12:59] know about the site and trying to start
[13:02] shaping the different scenarios that we
[13:04] want to test and that process of looking
[13:06] at the scenarios will start on the
[13:09] Thursday workshop. So you don't have to
[13:11] come to both workshops that week, but it
[13:13] would be great if people can commit to
[13:15] both of them. Uh then we'll be going
[13:18] back and trying to shape the first of a
[13:20] number of different scenarios, bringing
[13:23] those around to various focus groups.
[13:24] We're hoping to meet separately with
[13:26] neighborhood residents early in October
[13:29] and then that'll lead to another public
[13:30] meeting, third public meeting of this
[13:32] process early in November. And then
[13:34] we'll go back and iteratively be working
[13:37] on the plans and hopefully coming up
[13:39] with the final strategy for the zoning
[13:42] um later in December. And then at
[13:44] several points you can see in October
[13:46] and November there will be a fiscal
[13:48] analysis to look at the key scenarios
[13:50] and think about which one is the most
[13:52] beneficial to the town. Which one of
[13:54] those most likely to succeed in the
[13:57] marketplace? And then throughout, as I
[13:59] said, looking at what's the best fit for
[14:01] zoning because there's lots of different
[14:02] strategies. You've tried lots of
[14:04] different things in Ammerst before to
[14:07] promote the kind of development you
[14:08] want. So we'll be looking at what's
[14:10] worked in Ammerst and what's looked at
[14:11] other places and trying to find the best
[14:13] fit.
[14:16] Next slide.
[14:18] And so this of course is no news to this
[14:21] group. We have great context um in terms
[14:24] of how we proceed. So with the town
[14:26] council uh vote in June 1st clearly
[14:30] stating priorities associated with this
[14:32] site with the balance of housing, small
[14:34] business development and tax revenue
[14:36] generating uses alongside the
[14:39] acknowledgement of the sensitive habitat
[14:42] uh conditions that you have in many
[14:44] places, lots of streams, lots of
[14:46] wetlands, high groundwater table. Um,
[14:49] and when you're looking at housing
[14:50] development, really recognize that this
[14:52] is one of the things that's so amazing
[14:54] about this opportunity with a large site
[14:56] is the the variety that you have the
[14:59] opportunity to provide in a single
[15:02] setting. Um, it's really that just
[15:04] doesn't happen very often anymore in New
[15:05] England with how much constrained land
[15:07] that we have. So, um, and of course as
[15:10] we um are thinking this through, we are
[15:13] also thinking about services and
[15:14] facilities. what what are the recreation
[15:17] opportunities? How is the infrastructure
[15:20] going to be able to cope with um
[15:22] different development scenarios over
[15:23] time as buildout occurs? Next slide,
[15:26] please.
[15:29] Uh the current zoning is, you know, one
[15:31] of the reasons why this proactive
[15:33] approach is so important is that the
[15:35] current zoning particular on the core is
[15:38] really just tailored towards one thing.
[15:40] is really tailored towards the
[15:41] functioning of that campus as an
[15:44] educational uh institution and so um
[15:47] trying to do anything else at this point
[15:50] really isn't going to work. So the the
[15:52] do nothing scenario really isn't very
[15:54] practical uh for the community. So in
[15:56] that core area with that ED that
[15:59] educational district um that's something
[16:01] that um is really going to be important
[16:03] for us to look at where we'll focus a
[16:05] lot of energy in this process. But of
[16:08] course to the north you have some active
[16:10] agricultural land uh which is currently
[16:13] zoned for lowdensity housing with the
[16:15] farmland conservation district that
[16:18] promotes farming uses. So an important
[16:21] different environment to the north and
[16:23] we'll be thinking about those as we as
[16:25] we go through. Next slide please.
[16:30] So, as you know, uh, over the course of
[16:32] this summer, we've been pulling together
[16:34] all the available existing mapping to
[16:36] try to understand what's possible on the
[16:38] site in terms of future growth and
[16:40] development, what's important to protect
[16:42] in terms of conservation. And we're
[16:45] hoping that this will create a useful
[16:47] basis of information again for our
[16:49] public workshops and for people to react
[16:51] to. On this particular map, which is
[16:54] kind of a summary of different factors
[16:55] affecting development, the blue
[16:57] corridors are existing streams of
[17:01] various varieties, some of them
[17:03] perennial, some of them intermittent
[17:05] along with their protected buffers.
[17:07] There are wetlands as mapped by the
[17:09] state and their protected buffers.
[17:11] There's also um soils, hydraological or
[17:15] hydric soils rather, which are the ones
[17:17] which have been mapped in the past uh
[17:20] with high water table. None of this is
[17:23] been verified on the ground. So, as you
[17:25] know, any development process can't
[17:28] really move forward until you do the
[17:29] wetland surveys and so on. And we don't
[17:32] have the time or the budget to do
[17:33] detailed surveys. But we're going to be
[17:35] using the best information we can and
[17:38] trying to generally get a framework of
[17:40] how much of this land is possibly
[17:42] developable, what is most important to
[17:44] protect and so on. The next slide shows
[17:48] u key areas that have the fewest
[17:51] constraints and this again is a
[17:53] continuum. Some constraints are
[17:55] absolute. You can't develop a wetland.
[17:57] Some constraints are a matter of cost
[18:00] where it costs more to develop footings
[18:03] and poor soils and so on. But there
[18:06] appear to be about 200 acres or more
[18:08] that are relatively few of constraints.
[18:10] And this includes the existing core
[18:12] campus. So just by itself, 200 acres is
[18:16] a really large piece of land with lots
[18:18] of possibilities. So we're going to be
[18:20] starting with this understanding and
[18:22] moving forward with hopefully a lot of
[18:24] eyes including yours looking at these
[18:26] different maps and trying to figure out
[18:28] the best way to move forward.
[18:32] And so as you all received a memorandum
[18:36] from us as sort of prepping for this
[18:38] meeting, we talked about the other
[18:40] areas, you know, beyond the vote that
[18:41] you took in June, um that set context,
[18:44] the policy context for this with your
[18:47] 2010 master plan that was readopted in
[18:50] 2020, the 2021 comprehensive housing
[18:53] policy, which talks very concretely
[18:55] about some of the goals you have
[18:57] relative to housing and housing
[18:58] diversity, attainability, and Then most
[19:01] recently, a very helpful document for
[19:03] us, uh, hot off the presses is the 2025
[19:07] housing production plan, which not only
[19:09] gives us the policy and strategic
[19:11] framework, but the data that were used
[19:13] to develop that are the most recent data
[19:15] that we have access to. So, it's really
[19:17] fresh, really helpful for us um, going
[19:20] forward. Next slide, please.
[19:23] Uh as Peter mentioned, you know, some of
[19:25] the local challenges that we face uh
[19:28] from a develop developability
[19:30] perspective uh are those natural
[19:33] constraints, the wetland streams, the
[19:34] high groundwater and then also balancing
[19:37] the need for farmland that I discussed
[19:38] earlier and other conservation land
[19:40] limits um that are, you know, going to
[19:43] potentially remove developable area from
[19:46] the equation. Uh infrastructure is going
[19:49] to be important. We've had preliminary
[19:51] discussions with folks at town staff.
[19:54] There are no major red flags. Um but
[19:56] that doesn't mean the infrastructure is
[19:58] ready for um brand new mass scale
[20:01] development tomorrow. It's not like
[20:04] anything else. It will need to be
[20:05] improved over time. Uh but again, no
[20:07] major red flags in terms of looking down
[20:10] the 5 10 20 year horizon. Those are just
[20:13] improvements that g get made along the
[20:15] way. Um these all provide an opportunity
[20:18] to take creative approaches to resoning.
[20:21] Uh we really do have to think about you
[20:23] know where we can get creative. It was
[20:25] nice to be with the planning board and
[20:27] hear them encourage us to think in that
[20:29] way. And so there are a lot of examples.
[20:31] U we've come we researched approximately
[20:34] a dozen examples. I'll go through a few
[20:36] of them right now just to give you a
[20:38] flavor for it. So next slide please.
[20:41] So, one that's uh very familiar to
[20:43] everybody, the Village Hill, uh
[20:45] Northampton, about 126 acres, so in the
[20:48] ballpark, you know, you know, we're in
[20:50] the triple digits here uh with a
[20:52] combination of commercial uh R&D, light
[20:55] industrial, residential uses. So, an
[20:58] example of a master planned community um
[21:00] that's really meant to function as a
[21:02] cohesive unit in terms of its
[21:04] circulation, in terms of the experience
[21:06] on the ground for the people who visit
[21:07] there. And this was done through a
[21:09] combination of 40R and local development
[21:12] controls. One of the big differences
[21:14] here is that mass development is is
[21:17] really a big player here in managing
[21:20] this. And so this is not something that
[21:22] you're going to have when you're looking
[21:23] at uh the Hampshire campus. Uh you're
[21:26] not going to have a state level entity
[21:28] in that management position. It'll be
[21:30] the town working with a private entity
[21:33] um to to you know achieve the vision.
[21:36] Next next slide please.
[21:38] I'm in Plymouth. Um Plymouth has a
[21:41] couple of um interesting zoning tools on
[21:44] the books and two really notable
[21:46] communities. They have the Pine Hills,
[21:48] about 3,000 acres, I believe. I'm not
[21:51] 100% sure on this, but Plymouth may be
[21:53] the largest town east of the
[21:54] Mississippi. So, they've got a town the
[21:57] size of Belmont is one development um
[22:00] with Plymouth. Anyway, another one is
[22:03] this Redbrook. Um so this is a a bit
[22:05] smaller um but it is another example of
[22:09] you know an area that was developed
[22:12] in close proximity to a lot of natural
[22:14] resources. So that contextsensitive
[22:17] approach was really important. Um they
[22:19] used some different tools uh here that
[22:23] are more complicated. Um they in terms
[22:26] of transfer of development rights. So
[22:28] they're actually moving development from
[22:30] one area of the community to another to
[22:32] achieve a higher density. Um that is a
[22:35] complex tool that doesn't have a lot of
[22:38] uh case study success, but they're
[22:40] making it work here uh in Plymouth. And
[22:43] they did start out with a special permit
[22:46] as their master plan approval, but they
[22:49] develop smaller areas through an
[22:52] expedited site plan review after that.
[22:54] the the master plan um is sort of a
[22:57] bigger permit, higher scrutiny process,
[22:59] but then once you start developing
[23:01] underneath that, it moves very quickly.
[23:03] Next slide, please. Uh Rethm Village
[23:06] zoning district. So, this is I'm always
[23:08] quick to say this is not the outlet
[23:10] malls. Um this is uh down by the uh
[23:13] their historic uh village center, but
[23:16] what was interesting is they had this
[23:17] sort of 50 acre vacant industrial site
[23:21] just off the back of their historic main
[23:23] street. And so they decided to look at
[23:25] this as a cohesive unit, divide it up
[23:28] again into some subd districts. One of
[23:30] the interesting pieces here is that they
[23:33] put a lot of emphasis on a
[23:36] pre-application process. So they want
[23:38] the applicant, the developer to come in
[23:41] early um with some conceptual plans,
[23:44] sort of get the the discussion going and
[23:46] maybe provide some predictability.
[23:49] Next slide, please.
[23:52] Uh Great Barington. So, here's a campus
[23:54] overlay district, Bard College. And this
[23:57] is a a bit of a smaller area uh than
[24:01] what we're looking at here. But the I
[24:03] guess what I'll say here, the the
[24:05] interesting thing here or one of the
[24:07] unique features is that they sort of
[24:09] have a two-tiered. One of the questions
[24:11] we'll keep asking is where do we have
[24:13] byite site plan review special permit?
[24:16] How do those different permitting
[24:17] mechanisms work? And what they did here
[24:20] was they set a modest level of density
[24:22] as the byite avenue and if you wanted to
[24:25] do higher it would go to a higher
[24:27] permitting process a higher scrutiny
[24:29] process with the special permit. Next
[24:32] slide please.
[24:34] And so for us you know these kinds of
[24:36] the questions that we're thinking about.
[24:38] Are we going to use an overlay or are we
[24:39] going to have a new base district? We
[24:41] really want to create predictability.
[24:43] This is a big multi-year multi-million
[24:47] dollar investment and the town has its
[24:49] own aspirations that it's very clearly
[24:51] laid out in all these policy documents
[24:53] that we've discussed. So predictability
[24:55] on both ends of that is going to be
[24:57] really important. A master plan approval
[25:00] is probably going to be something that
[25:02] we have to look at if somebody buys this
[25:05] wholesale and wants to think about that
[25:08] type of village style mixeduse cohesive
[25:11] working neighborhood multiple
[25:13] neighborhoods. That's something that
[25:14] should be master planned in the
[25:16] beginning. You have to have some really
[25:17] good thought process going into that. So
[25:19] how does that fit into the permitting
[25:20] process? This will happen in phases
[25:23] there. this this we could be looking at
[25:25] 5 10 15 20 year buildout to this site
[25:28] right that's how this works over time so
[25:30] how does the permit process account for
[25:32] that changing conditions changing plans
[25:35] changing new tenants new owners that has
[25:38] to be baked into this as Peter said
[25:40] you've have some of your own tools uh in
[25:42] your toolbox so your plan unit
[25:45] residential developments some of your
[25:46] other village style developments we'll
[25:48] be looking at those pieces to see you
[25:50] know how that's met your priorities in
[25:52] the past building reuse is something
[25:54] that we have to think as well. There are
[25:56] some buildings on site that somebody may
[25:58] want to reuse. And the most important
[26:00] thing for our zoning is not to get in
[26:01] the way, right? We don't want if that's
[26:03] a viable option, if one of these
[26:05] buildings can be reused for something
[26:07] that's a community asset or a
[26:09] residential asset, we don't want to get
[26:11] in the way of that. Um, the housing
[26:13] diversity question, right? the types of
[26:15] housing, making sure that we have enough
[26:19] definitions, enough range, enough
[26:21] flexibility, um, with design standards
[26:24] to go with that to make sure you're
[26:26] getting a high quality product and that
[26:29] there gets back to that predictability
[26:31] thing. And as I mentioned, ownership can
[26:34] change. A master developer will bring in
[26:36] other developers to to develop small
[26:39] pockets. And so, we just don't want
[26:41] zoning to get in the way. We wanted to
[26:43] be able to account for that type of
[26:44] flexibility as you move along. All of
[26:47] these questions get informed by some of
[26:49] the work that Peter's going to be doing
[26:51] with the public process. So maybe Peter
[26:53] you could talk a little bit about the
[26:54] visualization that
[26:57] >> Yeah. So I think the the big message I
[26:59] want to leave you with as I said earlier
[27:00] is this is about testing different
[27:02] scenarios, lots of them and not trying
[27:06] to rule out anything too early. uh we
[27:09] are going to be constrained by time
[27:10] because we have to finish by the end of
[27:11] the year. Uh but within that time we
[27:13] want to be able to have a an open and
[27:16] objective look at all the different
[27:17] ideas and to see how that might benefit
[27:20] the town in different ways and benefit
[27:23] uh you know remaining
[27:26] needs of Hampshire College. Um the
[27:29] unusual thing about this is it is it
[27:30] does remain under the control of the
[27:32] Hampshire College trustees and like a
[27:35] lot of these projects that all of us
[27:37] have worked on you might have a master
[27:39] developer who knows what they want here.
[27:43] You know there's you know the the
[27:45] college is going to be acting as kind of
[27:46] an agent to distribute the the land to
[27:49] potential developers or potential
[27:52] conservation agents over time. I mean,
[27:54] we don't know what that's going to be in
[27:56] terms of decisions. So, we really need
[27:59] to come up with lots of different ideas
[28:01] both for the town to review and for the
[28:03] college to review and then to look at
[28:05] each of those in terms of the the fiscal
[28:08] dynamics and hopefully come to the again
[28:10] the best fit with the zoning finally at
[28:12] the end of the day.
[28:13] >> Right. Next slide, please. And so for
[28:17] tonight, so uh we've got through that's a lot of information, I know, but
[28:22] um important to reiterate as we go
[28:25] through these meetings to sort of keep
[28:26] everybody um firing on those synapses as
[28:29] we go through this complicated
[28:30] discussion. Tonight are we had sent some
[28:34] framing questions along and I'll just
[28:35] read these and then pass it back. Um we
[28:38] wanted to hear from all of you. What are
[28:41] your top three goals or priorities for
[28:43] the future of the Hampshire College
[28:45] campus? What are your greatest concerns
[28:47] or questions about the campus's future?
[28:50] And looking ahead 20 years, what
[28:52] outcomes would lead you to consider the
[28:54] reuse of this area as a success? You
[28:57] able to look back and say, "Yeah, we did
[28:59] it." And what outcomes would you regard
[29:01] as signs that the town made the wrong
[29:03] decisions? what would it look like 20
[29:05] years from now if we didn't quite get it
[29:07] right or if there were some instances of
[29:09] where some some of the right decisions
[29:11] weren't made. So I'll pass it back to
[29:13] you and start our round robin.
[29:16] >> Okay. [clears throat] So the way this is
[29:18] going to work is we're going to deal
[29:19] with each question separately. We're
[29:21] going to take the first one and then
[29:25] we're going to finish with that one and
[29:27] any further discussion before we move on
[29:29] to the next one so that we're not
[29:31] jumping around. The consultants aren't
[29:33] trying to keep everything on track and and deal with all of the jumping
[29:37] around. Um and so my thoughts are about
[29:41] 45 minutes for the first one, about 45
[29:43] minutes for the second one, and since
[29:44] the third one's a little bit less meaty,
[29:47] um a little bit less time for that. But
[29:49] we'll see how it goes. We'll see if
[29:50] there's dead time or anything. We're
[29:54] naturally wrapping up time. So, we're
[29:56] starting with the first one and after we
[29:58] do the round robin, I'm going to pass it
[29:59] off to to the consultants to do any
[30:02] follow-up questions they want with the
[30:03] first prompt and then and then we'll
[30:05] come back and when we finish that, we'll
[30:06] move to the second prompt. So, the first
[30:07] prompt is top three goals or priorities
[30:10] for the future of Hampshire College
[30:12] campus. Again, this is roundroin. Please
[30:14] name your top three hopefully in under a
[30:17] minute. Um and we'll have time to then
[30:20] expound on that later. Um we are
[30:22] starting with oh and for ease of
[30:25] consultant calling when they start
[30:28] facilitating themselves we're going to
[30:30] refer to everyone as counselor with last
[30:31] name even though that is not what some
[30:34] people have asked for. Um but it's for
[30:36] the ease of the consultants tonight. So
[30:39] counselor Devon Gothier.
[30:42] >> All right. Um is this thing is mine mic
[30:44] working? Can people hear it? Maybe it
[30:48] is. Okay. Usually I can hear myself
[30:50] louder, so I'm not sure.
[30:51] >> Yeah.
[30:52] >> All right. Yell at me if you can't hear.
[30:53] Uh, top three goals. Workforce and
[30:57] family housing. I know you can't control
[30:59] this, but I personally would love to see
[31:02] home ownership opportunities, not just rentals. Um, business and
[31:07] agrica agricultural opportunities
[31:10] and conservation and recreation. Those
[31:12] are my three kind of things I'd like to
[31:14] see. I'm going to cheat the question.
[31:16] Sorry. Uh, how I would like to see that
[31:19] done, I would love creative reuse and
[31:22] creating parcels
[31:24] instead of one soul.
[31:28] >> Thank you, councelor Rooney.
[31:35] » There we go. Um, one of my goals Thank
[31:38] you. This is a good a good start. Um uh
[31:41] one of my goals is that we utilize the
[31:44] existing facilities as best possible.
[31:47] Can you see me?
[31:49] >> We cannot. Your video is not on or not
[31:51] showing.
[31:52] >> Oh, it keeps going off.
[31:56] >> There you go.
[31:56] >> There we go. There we go. um to utilize
[32:00] uh existing buildings as best possible
[32:04] uh to just you know just from a energy
[32:06] conservation standpoint and all of that
[32:08] but also so that um
[32:13] we don't have to spend a lot of time or
[32:14] nobody has to spend a lot of time
[32:16] building new structures necessarily. Um,
[32:19] a second,
[32:21] um,
[32:23] goal would be to
[32:25] look for zoning that allows sort of a,
[32:28] uh, rings of density. And I'm thinking
[32:30] of places like Almira, Holland, uh, or
[32:34] even some of the new town development in Virginia where you have denser cores
[32:40] and then subsequent layers and and
[32:43] levels of density farther from the core.
[32:46] Um, and that would include uses of
[32:48] things like the PURDS
[32:51] or the open space community development
[32:53] and cluster development. So all of those tools and then I'll just
[32:59] throw in we we definitely want a higher
[33:01] tax base. That's not that goes without
[33:04] saying. So my third actual goal then is
[33:07] um uh an a master plan that organizes
[33:11] the the parcels with open space
[33:14] connections rather than utilizing
[33:17] roadways as the organizing feature.
[33:20] >> Thank you.
[33:21] Councelor Churchill.
[33:30] Um,
[33:32] I would like to see a range of housing
[33:34] types, um, with significant density to
[33:37] really help with our housing deficit.
[33:39] Um, I'd like to see, uh,
[33:44] taxable tax revenue for the town. And um
[33:48] I've come to be curious about the
[33:51] multisport center and whether there are
[33:53] recreational opportunities that could be
[33:55] taken advantage of by either the town or
[33:57] the the neighboring retirement community
[34:00] or whatever. There may be opportunities
[34:02] there.
[34:04] >> Thank you, Councelor Ko Martin.
[34:08] >> Um yeah, my definitely my top priority
[34:10] would be housing. um in the creation of
[34:12] housing um different kinds of housing um
[34:15] different levels of density and
[34:17] different uh price points so affordable
[34:19] housing and some market rate housing um
[34:21] and agree that there should be some home
[34:23] ownership opportunities as well. Um I
[34:26] think another priority would be as
[34:28] others have mentioned to reuse the
[34:30] existing buildings and make sure that
[34:32] we're um taking advantage of what's
[34:34] already there instead of just knocking
[34:35] it down and building new. Um, and then
[34:39] finally, um, I the conservation aspect.
[34:42] I think that, um, I think already in
[34:44] what I've been seeing in the materials
[34:45] so far, it's clear that, um, we're going
[34:47] to be maintaining, you know, the
[34:49] wetlands and in, you know, some of the
[34:51] existing conservation areas, but I I
[34:53] certainly wouldn't want to see any of,
[34:54] you know, farmland, for example, you
[34:57] know, or things that are being used for
[34:59] um, you know, conservation purposes be
[35:01] turned into housing. So, I think it's
[35:03] just creating that balance, right?
[35:06] Thank you, Council Ryan.
[35:11] » So, I will um take the prompt earlier of
[35:16] 20 years from now,
[35:18] the very optimistic assumption that I'll
[35:20] be here and wonder what um would this
[35:24] look like and I would feel like somehow
[35:25] we hadn't achieved what we'd hoped to
[35:28] achieve. And some of what I'm going to
[35:30] say is going to echo some of the things
[35:32] I'm hearing from my colleagues. But 20
[35:34] years from now, if I were looking at
[35:36] Hampshire College and I didn't see a
[35:39] substantial number of of starter homes
[35:42] of places that give people a chance to
[35:44] live in Ammeris, that right now simply
[35:46] is not possible. That would be one thing
[35:48] that would be disappointing to me. A
[35:50] second would be uh perhaps similar, but
[35:53] the kind of housing that would um allow
[35:56] people who work here um who can't afford
[35:59] to uh live here. Um, that would also be
[36:02] something that I would like to see that
[36:03] there would be what I call workforce
[36:05] housing, starter homes. Um, and finally,
[36:08] I think, um, addressing the town's
[36:09] facility needs. Um, they're many and
[36:12] complicated, but certainly in the area
[36:14] of recreation, given ideas of reuse. Um,
[36:18] it would be a shame if 20 years from
[36:20] now, nothing of the existing facilities
[36:23] were able to be reused. Um and it would
[36:25] be a shame if there wasn't something
[36:28] related perhaps to the needs of seniors,
[36:30] the needs of youth, um the recreation
[36:32] needs of the town and also the facility
[36:34] needs of our departments if something on
[36:37] that campus was not and hopefully more
[36:39] than one something were was not
[36:41] addressing those needs.
[36:44] >> Thank you, Councelor Lord.
[36:47] >> Thank you. Can you hear me? All right.
[36:49] >> Yes.
[36:49] >> Awesome. Um, number one would be housing
[36:53] justice. Use Ammeris, I mean Hampshire
[36:56] to create a mixed income,
[36:58] multigenerational community where
[37:00] working people and families can afford
[37:02] to live and build community in Ammerst.
[37:05] Two is um community wealth and wellness.
[37:10] So part of the campus could be used to
[37:12] create jobs, locally owned businesses,
[37:14] cultural space, um our BIPO, our youth
[37:17] center, education, mental health,
[37:18] wellness. Yay, everything. Let's go. And
[37:21] then a third goal would be the land
[37:23] steward for ship for to preserve the the
[37:28] habitat, the forest, the farmlands, the
[37:30] protected space for future generations.
[37:34] Thank you.
[37:35] >> Thank you, councelor Greimer.
[37:38] >> Thank you. Um, I agree with the multiple
[37:42] kinds of housing, but I would like to
[37:43] see a specific focus on homes that
[37:47] seniors could move into to get out of
[37:49] their existing homes. And I would also
[37:51] like to see an addition that would
[37:53] complement the Applewood community with
[37:56] other multiple level levels of care so
[37:59] that people could retire to that part of
[38:02] town and stay there until they passed.
[38:05] Um, I'd like to see um the pres
[38:09] preservation of the open space and
[38:11] conservation.
[38:13] Any others? Taxes.
[38:16] >> Thank you, Councelor Walker.
[38:20] >> Um, thank you. Uh, my first priority is
[38:23] housing like many other counselors have
[38:25] said. Um, specifically family housing
[38:27] and affordable housing. I think a
[38:29] mixture of rental and home ownership
[38:32] opportunities and starter homes. Um I'm
[38:35] also interested my second priority would
[38:37] be the retention of the recreational
[38:39] spaces um or facilities the courts the
[38:42] pools the daycare center uh
[38:44] multicultural center youth empowerment
[38:46] center um and my third priority is the
[38:50] maintaining of the conservation and
[38:52] farmland and hoping and wondering if
[38:55] whatever development does end up
[38:57] happening at Hampshire can sort of
[38:59] incorporate those spaces in some kind of
[39:02] educational way for a different way that
[39:04] can be accessible to the public.
[39:07] >> Thank you, Councelor Brevik.
[39:10] >> Yeah, I just wanted to say quickly, I
[39:12] appreciate the community outreach pro
[39:14] process that is underway and and
[39:17] I think that it will be important for
[39:19] all of us to hear what comes out of that
[39:21] too. So, just to note that I think that
[39:24] aside, we all sound very aligned in uh
[39:27] and going toward the end here um in our
[39:30] priorities that we laid out in the
[39:33] statement we we uh voted on in June. So,
[39:36] I will just add into the mix um to
[39:39] emphasize the importance of diverse
[39:42] housing. In one of the earlier
[39:44] presentations, uh, our consultants here,
[39:47] uh, referenced that students, seniors,
[39:49] and working-class families are all shown
[39:51] to be driving demand in our area. And
[39:54] so, housing that meets the demand from
[39:56] all of those groups, a balance of much
[39:58] needed density uh, with starter homes,
[40:01] as others have said. I would also love
[40:03] to see opportunities for partnerships
[40:05] with nonprofits or programs that lift
[40:08] families up economically, too. We saw
[40:10] that with Ammeris Community Homes and I
[40:11] know there are other great examples in
[40:13] the area where there can be services and
[40:15] programs layered onto housing
[40:17] development. Um I'll add also so I would
[40:22] also like to see economic and small
[40:23] business development. Uh we lost a big
[40:25] draw to the area and I think replacing
[40:28] that is important and having um
[40:31] businesses or arts and culture other
[40:33] things that are bringing people into the
[40:35] area. Um and then absolutely don't want
[40:39] to lose sight of uh the preservation of
[40:41] ecosystems and the the open space as
[40:44] this is critical for all of us to remain
[40:47] healthy and thriving in this area.
[40:49] Thanks.
[40:49] >> Thank you, Councelor Tub.
[40:54] >> Uh thank you. Of course, I agree with
[40:55] everything that's been said. I could
[40:57] literally just say especially ditto with
[41:00] what councelor Walker um said. So I uh
[41:03] my first priority would be housing to
[41:06] serve, you know, all the constituents in
[41:09] our community that need housing,
[41:11] especially workforce and family housing.
[41:14] Um both um starter homes, home ownership
[41:18] opportunities,
[41:19] uh rental opportunities at a level that
[41:23] um families and members of our workforce
[41:25] and seniors can afford. Um uh
[41:28] multi-generational housing. I would love
[41:30] to see, you know, um a community
[41:34] integrate, you know, a multif family
[41:35] community so that it's all integrated
[41:38] together, but that as c uh councelor
[41:40] Grymer said, um, you know, serve seniors
[41:44] because that would also if seniors could
[41:47] move to, um, you know, a kind of village
[41:50] that would might be built at Hampshire,
[41:53] that would also free up housing for uh,
[41:56] younger the next generation. Um,
[41:59] recreation and conservation would be the
[42:01] second. Um, Hampshire's recreational
[42:05] facilities really what provided a hub
[42:08] for residents all over Amherst went
[42:11] there for swimming, for pickle ball, for
[42:14] tennis and people came from outside the
[42:16] community and I would love to see it
[42:18] continue to be a center for recreation
[42:21] and conservation and small businesses.
[42:24] So as much as it could if and it would
[42:27] take it would happen over time but if it
[42:30] could be have a village feel with
[42:33] housing, recreation, small businesses so
[42:36] that residents who live there didn't
[42:38] have to travel far for those amenities
[42:41] and it would also bring residents from
[42:43] surrounding towns and other
[42:45] neighborhoods in Ammerst. Thanks.
[42:47] >> Thank you. I'm next on the list. Um,
[42:50] it'll sound very familiar, but housing
[42:52] of all types, but at attainable prices,
[42:55] but I would like a focus particularly on
[42:57] town homes and twins or
[43:00] duplexes, if you call them that. I grew
[43:02] up in a twin that can be owned without
[43:04] needing condos. So I think that requires
[43:07] um zero lot line developments and stuff
[43:09] like that um to be able to do that way
[43:13] um so that you can create that
[43:15] attainable workforce housing that could
[43:17] be more than just rental village center
[43:20] amenities within the area but also
[43:23] walkable to the area. So I don't want a
[43:25] housing silo like suburbs tend to be. Um
[43:29] create a density to support that too. Um
[43:32] and then revenue generation. Councelor
[43:35] McCloud.
[43:37] >> Uh thank you Mandy. Thank you to the
[43:39] presenters. Uh saw your presentation the
[43:43] previous month. Uh it was very
[43:45] informative. The charts that you've
[43:47] generated are extremely useful uh for
[43:51] I'm sure everyone who's looking at this
[43:53] now and in the future. uh
[43:55] [clears throat] my comments in terms of
[43:57] goals really need to be taken under the
[44:00] understanding that we don't completely
[44:03] control the fate of what's going to
[44:04] happen. Uh so I I would say zoning to
[44:10] uh increase tax revenue and uh influence
[44:14] positively the financial situation of
[44:16] the town meaning tax revenue from
[44:19] varying options that are there but also
[44:22] to recognize uh infrastructure expenses
[44:25] uh whether the town has them or they may
[44:27] go to the developers. I'd like to
[44:30] minimize it on the town and also
[44:32] recognizing the value of the uh existing
[44:35] buildings uh if they financially would
[44:38] benefit the town meaning build versus
[44:42] have something that already exists. So I
[44:44] wrap that all together uh with the
[44:46] underlying on tax revenue. Uh I would
[44:49] say [clears throat] mixed housing for a
[44:51] variety of uh uses including uh senior
[44:54] housing and workforce housing and
[44:55] affordable housing. uh preservation of
[44:58] sensitive areas. Um
[45:02] three is too few and I'd say we need to
[45:04] listen to the community members as well
[45:06] uh because we're 13. This is new to a
[45:08] lot of folks and I'm sure there's more
[45:10] than three goals that uh we all agree
[45:13] with. But thank you for what you're
[45:15] doing and thank you Mandy for holding
[45:16] this session.
[45:17] >> Thank you councelor Shane.
[45:20] A little unfair to come last because
[45:23] people have covered almost everything.
[45:25] So I I'll I'll try to group them a uh
[45:28] similarly but a little bit differently
[45:30] on the mix of housing. Um Lynn mentioned
[45:33] that we have an Applewood people have to
[45:35] move out of Applewood at at any time
[45:38] they can't independently take care of
[45:39] themselves. They have to leave Ammerst.
[45:42] And I've watched people in tears where
[45:44] one half of the couple was fine and the
[45:46] other wasn't. So, trying to think of and
[45:49] I'm not sure how you do this with
[45:51] zoning, but life care communities which
[45:53] allow you to move up. Um, and it's an
[45:57] ideal setting because it's so flat and
[46:01] you've already got things like a pool
[46:03] and other kinds of recreation. So, we
[46:05] could be a mecca for healthy seniors who
[46:08] also can be aging. So trying to think of
[46:11] when you do the mix that there's a
[46:13] larger piece of land because you need a
[46:15] bigger group to be able to have that.
[46:17] We've got one down in Lumis if you go
[46:19] down to South Aly. Uh secondly, and
[46:22] everyone has mentioned this, but we have
[46:24] a unique set of community resources that
[46:27] are used by the community that can be
[46:29] used by the next community. The pool,
[46:33] the the main um campus center, the
[46:36] indoor tennis courts, the outdoor tennis
[46:38] courts. This is so
[46:41] uh unique for already there. If you
[46:45] think of clusters of housing and what
[46:48] Pam originally said of housing
[46:50] clustered, so they have some green
[46:52] space. So you're walking across green
[46:54] space. The roadways already connect you
[46:56] everywhere you want to go. So trying to
[46:58] take advantage of what is there to think
[47:01] through it. And then last, you already
[47:04] had it in that top piece, but flexible
[47:06] ownership that some of this could be
[47:08] rent. A lot of it could be rent, but
[47:11] condos, town houses, purd where uh the
[47:15] little plots of land are co-owned and
[47:17] maintained. So, how you u it's not clear
[47:21] to me how you do that when you're doing
[47:23] the 40 or the others, you know, uh make
[47:26] sure it's allowed, but also think of it.
[47:28] And then the last point I want to make
[47:30] because we the preservation of scarce
[47:33] resources or
[47:35] uh there's huge amount of acreage that
[47:38] we're not talking about and that's all
[47:40] around it. I wouldn't try to take this
[47:42] 200 and do more with that but really
[47:45] think of where all surrounding with all
[47:47] the rivers you talked about their trail
[47:49] systems. She can walk endlessly
[47:52] to behind and out of Hampshire where
[47:55] your feet get really wet but there are
[47:57] trails and you know it's it's all
[47:59] walkable. Um and trying to say that is
[48:01] there so we don't have to recreate that.
[48:04] So let's take the developable parts and
[48:06] make the best use of them.
[48:08] >> Thank you. I'm going to pass it off to
[48:10] the consultants now. We have finished
[48:12] all 13 counselors on the round robin.
[48:14] So, it's uh open Mike to you to ask any
[48:18] follow-up questions and we'll from now
[48:21] on for this question, we'll deal with
[48:23] hands raised for any follow-up questions
[48:25] unless they have specific questions for
[48:27] specific counselors.
[48:32] » I didn't have any follow-up questions. I
[48:34] did just want to comment on one thing
[48:36] that I heard multiple times is this idea
[48:39] of flexibility and also of ownership.
[48:42] And some of the best housing work that's
[48:44] being done in the community, being done
[48:47] in the in the the country right now, um,
[48:51] is really kind of throwing the book out
[48:54] on a lot of
[48:56] the requirements related to lot
[49:00] frontage, lot position, lot dimension.
[49:03] and recognizing that one of the fastest
[49:07] ways to finance
[49:10] housing is small housing on small lots.
[49:15] Some of these can be landlocked that
[49:18] just and and they're smaller than you
[49:19] ever thought they would be. And it's
[49:22] counterintuitive for us who have just,
[49:24] you know, we've spent all of our years,
[49:26] all of our lives seeing people with a
[49:28] yard and a driveway and the frontage.
[49:31] Um, and it'll be important for us to
[49:33] think outside the box on some of those
[49:35] things where we're talking about really
[49:38] small lots, um, really small, sometimes
[49:41] non-existent frontage for the purposes
[49:43] of of creating a path to quick financing
[49:47] and home ownership and, you know, stuff
[49:50] that's financially viable. So,
[49:53] >> thank you. Any counselors want to add
[49:55] any other thoughts on anything that's
[49:57] been said or any other brainstorming
[49:59] ideas on priorities or goals? We'll
[50:03] start with councelor Shane.
[50:08] » It I don't quite fit the category you
[50:10] did, but I don't completely understand.
[50:13] So maybe in in the comments you make
[50:15] later um I I know what a 40 or overlay
[50:20] is or can be and then a village creating
[50:23] a village. Um and and trying to think of
[50:27] does that it's a question. Do you
[50:30] reszone the entire area? Do you resone
[50:33] parcels of it? Um do you say there's
[50:36] continuous in this area and that area or
[50:39] is is it a giant over
[50:44] literally envisioning little houses
[50:47] here, tall buildings there, senior. So,
[50:50] I don't quite understand what the zoning
[50:53] lever is that allows that diversity
[50:57] without saying we're in charge of
[51:00] selling the lots, which we're not,
[51:02] >> right? And so we haven't chosen our
[51:04] zoning lever and we'll probably have
[51:06] multiple levers um because again we have
[51:08] to have that flexibility and you know I
[51:11] think where we are now is where you've
[51:13] seen in terms of our case study research
[51:16] and you know I've written a lot of
[51:18] zoning and so I'm I'm I can get into the
[51:20] weeds really quickly on this stuff and won't put you all to sleep right now
[51:23] but it's you know this idea of a master
[51:26] plan is definitely some a tool that has
[51:28] to be on the tape if somebody is going
[51:30] to come forward and purchase just a very
[51:33] large piece of land and you have
[51:36] aspirations and the developer has
[51:38] aspirations about creating something
[51:40] that is an experience, a destination, a
[51:43] neighborhood, a cohesive working
[51:45] functioning community. Um, then a master
[51:48] plan is an example of something that has
[51:50] to happen. So that sort of sets the
[51:53] stage for how a site will be
[51:55] conceptually laid out over time. And
[51:58] then once the engineers and the
[52:00] designers really get into it, that's
[52:03] when you sort of go to that second
[52:04] level. So that's why you've seen a lot
[52:06] of communities sort of use the, you
[52:08] know, at a 10,000 foot level, they
[52:10] master plan out, they permit that by
[52:12] special permit, and then when somebody
[52:14] wants to come in and develop that
[52:16] neighborhood and this particular area,
[52:18] then the engineers and the designers
[52:20] really come in and get it done, the
[52:21] storm water, the wastewater, all of
[52:22] those things. And that goes through a
[52:24] site plan review process. That's not
[52:26] necessarily the track we'll take, but
[52:28] that's what we've seen in other
[52:30] communities where you've got that 10,000
[52:32] foot look. This this is the kind of
[52:34] community that we want. This looks like
[52:36] a really great concept. This will be
[52:38] beautiful in 15 years. Um, but we are
[52:41] going to build it three, four, five,
[52:43] seven years at a time and permit this
[52:46] along the way with a different process.
[52:50] Jeff,
[52:51] >> I'm not sure that I definitely not
[52:54] trying to belabor the point, but I think
[52:55] the question is a really good one that
[52:57] the councelor asked. I think we're not
[52:59] there yet. I think we wanted to touch
[53:00] base with the council and then we go
[53:01] through the public process. But I think
[53:02] that's one of the key questions that we
[53:04] have and I think that was some of the
[53:06] sentiment that we heard with the
[53:07] planning board was if our zoning that we
[53:10] have worked with doesn't work, we should
[53:13] try something new. And I think we might
[53:14] have such a unique opportunity where we
[53:16] will probably need to try something new
[53:18] or at least continue to explore how best
[53:21] we could get the results that it sounds
[53:22] like people are pretty pretty
[53:24] consistently kind of wanting the results
[53:26] and we have to make sure that we have
[53:28] the zoning tools. That's what this boils
[53:29] down to is our control is going to be
[53:31] through zoning. So that's going to be
[53:33] the task over the next several months is
[53:34] to figure that part out. And then the
[53:36] other thing I just wanted to say because
[53:37] it relates to understanding what we do
[53:40] have control over. And so with regard to
[53:43] reusing existing buildings, I think it's
[53:45] a fantastic concept, our ability through
[53:49] zoning will be primarily to make it as
[53:52] easy as possible to reuse buildings for
[53:55] whatever the best use is for. And I
[53:58] think we can encourage that. That's how
[53:59] you do it is you encourage it by making
[54:01] it super easy. But there are going to be
[54:03] some financial implications of that. And
[54:06] it's not the town's buildings. So
[54:09] there's this evaluation that we
[54:11] understand that the college is likely to
[54:13] try to pursue some level of assessment
[54:16] of the buildings to understand their
[54:17] current condition and the potential
[54:19] reusability, but it's not something that
[54:21] we have the control over. So if you
[54:23] think Wildwood for example, that's the
[54:25] town's building and we're going to
[54:26] investigate that and we're going to
[54:27] determine its reusability. But here our
[54:30] tool is going to be through zoning. So
[54:32] the idea of making it flexible possibly
[54:33] without a lot without requiring it to be
[54:35] its own parcel, you know, minimizing
[54:37] parking requirements. We're going to
[54:39] have to really think creatively to
[54:41] incentivize the reuse and allow it to
[54:43] happen through zoning. So there's just
[54:44] something there that we're going to
[54:45] continue to flesh out as we move
[54:46] forward. But I just wanted to kind of
[54:48] make that point because it was a good
[54:49] one.
[54:50] >> Thank you. Um my hands up next. So, I
[54:53] like the idea of that master plan
[54:55] development and then sort of things
[54:59] underneath and and I love the idea of
[55:02] creative use of zoning whether that be
[55:04] look it looks completely different from
[55:06] what our our current zoning bylaw looks
[55:08] like or anything because I think we need
[55:10] creativity there. Um,
[55:13] and the other thing I would add to my my
[55:17] three goals there was was don't be
[55:19] afraid of high density. um is is is one
[55:23] of my goals. So, Council Rooney,
[55:28] » thank you. Uh one of the items that was
[55:30] also on my list is uh protection and
[55:33] encouragement of the arts and culture of
[55:36] the area. And I'm not sure that that's
[55:38] uh handled through zoning, but uh that
[55:41] would involve protection of access for
[55:44] the existing cultural entities there and perhaps taking advantage of again
[55:51] talking about facilities, taking in
[55:53] advantage of some of the um the main
[55:56] facilities on the campus for something
[55:58] like conference center. UMass has not
[56:02] devel
[56:04] I think
[56:06] uh community.
[56:10] Thank you.
[56:11] >> Could you say that again? You broke up
[56:12] while you were saying your last bit
[56:14] about conference centers.
[56:17] >> Uh utilization of existing some of the
[56:20] existing buildings for conference
[56:23] center. UMass has not yet developed one
[56:26] and it's it's maybe on the books, but
[56:29] here's a a really uh imminent
[56:32] opportunity for perhaps um conference
[56:35] center, not necessarily controlled by
[56:37] zoning, but perhaps perhaps at Kennedy.
[56:41] >> Thank you. Um Councelor McCloud.
[56:46] >> Uh thank you, Mandy. Um, [clears throat]
[56:49] I watched part of the um, presentation
[56:52] from the other week again today and I
[56:54] put an asterisk as I heard you reference
[56:59] uh, sewage usage and getting close to
[57:03] limits as a town and that overall the
[57:08] infrastructure is good. It's, you know,
[57:10] an ideal situation for the most part.
[57:13] But when I heard you referencing getting
[57:15] close to the limits of the town
[57:16] infrastructure, it prompted me to say
[57:19] what types of expenses might
[57:23] be incurred by the town that might not
[57:25] be anticipated. And specifically,
[57:29] how close are we to our sewage limited
[57:32] building? Lots goes in here. Is it on
[57:34] the town or you know do we just
[57:38] I would assume it's a development uh
[57:41] expense.
[57:42] >> Yes, those usually are development
[57:44] expense. Um especially with the with the
[57:47] large um site type of investment that
[57:50] you see. Uh can't guarantee that. Um the
[57:53] most important thing is to work out an
[57:55] arrangement that is beneficial to the
[57:57] town. Right? You don't want it to be
[57:59] financially detrimental to the town. and
[58:02] any good developer is going to
[58:03] understand that coming to the table. Um
[58:05] I think in terms of the current
[58:06] infrastructure, there's two limitations
[58:09] that you often talk about with a sewage
[58:11] system. One is the physical limits of
[58:14] the system which is not something that
[58:16] is an issue at this point. There's also
[58:18] the permit limitations um where you're
[58:21] actually permitted to discharge. And so
[58:23] that's a administrative permit thing.
[58:26] Both of those will have to be looked at
[58:28] over time, but there's nothing right now
[58:31] that would I mean the the college is
[58:34] using sewer capacity, right? So you
[58:35] think about the amount of flow that
[58:37] they're generating now. So there is an
[58:40] allocation that's already there that can
[58:42] accommodate redevelopment going forward.
[58:44] So it's just a question of incrementally
[58:46] managing that over time.
[58:47] >> Uh thank you. But you were talking about
[58:49] townwide
[58:51] usage limits, not college specific use,
[58:54] area specific usage limits. Correct?
[58:56] >> Yeah, they all go to this. Yeah, that
[58:57] one spot
[58:58] >> and and that question and that is going
[59:00] to be something that will be
[59:02] investigated later on during this
[59:03] process um as we collect questions from
[59:07] the public and and the counselors. I did
[59:10] have a follow-up question if that's okay
[59:12] since I'm um I looked at the zoning maps
[59:16] that you generated uh and quite helpful.
[59:19] I saw some zoning that was RLD along
[59:22] with FC and could someone explain to me
[59:26] how that works in terms of overlay
[59:28] because there's two different zones
[59:30] there. I assume they both apply but is
[59:32] one predominant and the second was added
[59:34] later.
[59:36] >> Jeff? Yeah, I think it's an evol for the
[59:40] mic, please.
[59:41] >> Yeah, we want to be we wanted to be
[59:43] sensitive not to try to answer every
[59:44] question that we get right now tonight
[59:46] because there there's some that are
[59:47] going to be difficult to explain. The
[59:49] residential low density was one of the
[59:51] original zoning districts that the town
[59:53] has. It's creates lot sizes of a certain
[59:55] type. It's it's low density and then the
[59:58] farmland conservation was overlaid over
[1:00:00] that at some period and we don't I don't
[1:00:02] know the date of that. So it is part of
[1:00:04] the discussion that we will have moving
[1:00:06] forward based on your input, based on
[1:00:07] the community input, we need to decide
[1:00:09] whether we're talking about changing
[1:00:10] that or not and what it does and what it
[1:00:12] doesn't do. So that's a future
[1:00:14] consideration. And the other thing I
[1:00:16] just want to say about infrastructure
[1:00:17] and I know maybe we're drifting into the
[1:00:18] next set of questions which are probably
[1:00:20] concerns.
[1:00:21] >> Um you know it's not it should not be
[1:00:22] lost on this group that if this were to
[1:00:25] be developed over a period of time there
[1:00:27] are new rate payers and that is going to
[1:00:30] be helpful to the town. So while there
[1:00:33] might be some additional usage, there
[1:00:36] will also be new rateayers um much much
[1:00:39] more than what is being paid now by the
[1:00:41] college. So those are going to be
[1:00:43] helpful for future wastewater
[1:00:45] improvement uh that might be necessary.
[1:00:47] So just be mindful that there will be
[1:00:49] additional rateayers contributing to
[1:00:51] improvements which is a benefit in
[1:00:53] addition to potential tax revenue. So we
[1:00:55] are we have that fully developed you
[1:00:57] know scope with the U3 adviserss and
[1:00:59] they will be talking about tax revenue
[1:01:02] um generation and impacts uh school
[1:01:05] enrollment and more clarity on the
[1:01:07] actual infrastructure cost. So that's
[1:01:10] coming up before we get to January where
[1:01:13] they haven't started that evaluation
[1:01:14] yet.
[1:01:15] >> Yep. Thank you. We're gonna move on to
[1:01:16] councelor Tub.
[1:01:19] >> Um thank you. Yeah, this I guess is a
[1:01:21] question I agree with councelor Hannicki
[1:01:23] in terms of having a master plan um you
[1:01:27] know and a so a vision that you know we
[1:01:30] would like to see whoever is developing
[1:01:32] or purchases that [clears throat] land
[1:01:35] to work towards and I guess when you
[1:01:38] said you know this may happen you know
[1:01:40] in fiveyear increments it may be 20
[1:01:42] years till if we if there is a master
[1:01:44] plan it's fully built out but is there
[1:01:48] anything we
[1:01:50] do I mean or or is there a concern that
[1:01:53] you know a few houses will get built and
[1:01:55] then nothing else will happen for a long
[1:01:58] time or is there you know any way
[1:02:01] may I don't know if it's the zoning
[1:02:03] provides an incentive or it's just a
[1:02:05] matter if all the stars line up that you
[1:02:08] know if we if a master plan is developed
[1:02:10] that it is achievable and we can have
[1:02:13] some sort of timeline to try help make
[1:02:17] sure we get there.
[1:02:20] >> Excellent. Um, that's more of prompt
[1:02:23] two, but if if you want to provide
[1:02:27] answer or response to that, um, I just
[1:02:30] reminding people we're on the
[1:02:31] >> the 30 second answer is that's not
[1:02:33] really the purview of zoning. Um,
[1:02:35] developers are under tremendous pressure
[1:02:38] to develop. Um, so the idea that they
[1:02:41] would purchase an enormous swath of land
[1:02:43] and then build 40 homes and kind of sit
[1:02:46] on it for many many years, it it's not a
[1:02:50] good business model. Um, so you rely on
[1:02:53] that and you can rely on that. So I'll
[1:02:55] leave it at that.
[1:02:55] >> Thank you, Councelor Churchill.
[1:03:00] » Yeah, I mean we're talking about
[1:03:02] resoning and having zoning in place by
[1:03:04] January. And at the same time,
[1:03:06] Hampshire's gotten a loan that's taken
[1:03:08] some of the pressure off their them to
[1:03:09] sell, but they're looking at they're
[1:03:12] still shopping the the land around. And
[1:03:14] I'm I'm just wondering
[1:03:17] what how are those two things related?
[1:03:19] Are are we looking to reszone be to to
[1:03:23] help shape what happens when they sell
[1:03:25] it? Or if we reszone after they sell it,
[1:03:29] that will shape what I mean, I guess, if
[1:03:31] I'm a developer, I'd like to know what
[1:03:33] the zoning is going to be.
[1:03:34] But how how we don't have control over
[1:03:37] what Hampshire College does with the
[1:03:39] land, but we're trying to put zoning in
[1:03:41] place and those things are sort of
[1:03:42] happening in parallel. So, how does that
[1:03:44] work?
[1:03:45] >> We're getting a little more into the
[1:03:47] questions, but if there's a quick
[1:03:48] answer, go for it, Jeff.
[1:03:51] [laughter]
[1:03:54] » It's a great question. We think that
[1:03:55] we're being proactive and looking at the
[1:03:59] zoning that we know doesn't accommodate
[1:04:01] very many uses. So, we're we're actively
[1:04:04] engaged in this and I think that's our
[1:04:06] process and that's our intent is to do
[1:04:08] this as quickly as is reasonable. The
[1:04:10] only thing I did actually want to
[1:04:12] mention is we're not seeking to have
[1:04:13] zoning in place by January. We're having
[1:04:15] the the proposed zoning ready to submit
[1:04:19] to town council which then starts the
[1:04:21] process. So, you know, being realistic,
[1:04:23] we're we're still expecting several
[1:04:25] months after January for zoning to
[1:04:27] potentially be adopted, but that's our
[1:04:29] target is to have the the proposal ready
[1:04:31] for January. We're doing this quickly to
[1:04:34] be efficient and to be ready. We we'd
[1:04:37] rather be doing this before before we
[1:04:39] know what's happening because once if if
[1:04:42] we didn't do anything and we waited um
[1:04:44] we're not sure that that's the best
[1:04:45] outcome for the town and so that's why
[1:04:47] we're we're being active right now.
[1:04:50] >> Thank you. I see. No other hands. Um,
[1:04:52] Nate or Peter, are there any
[1:04:54] clarification questions you'd like to
[1:04:55] ask? And then I'll give the counselors
[1:04:57] one more quick shot if they have
[1:04:59] anything to say on goals or priorities.
[1:05:02] No. Counselors, any last
[1:05:07] quick goals or priorities that haven't
[1:05:09] been mentioned or that you feel you need
[1:05:12] to expound on quickly or expand on
[1:05:15] quickly? Andy, your hand is still up.
[1:05:18] No. Okay.
[1:05:22] We will move on then. Um the next one is
[1:05:25] the next prompt is what are your
[1:05:27] greatest concerns or questions about the
[1:05:29] campus's future? As you saw, it's hard
[1:05:32] to hear about and state goals and
[1:05:34] priorities without also having questions
[1:05:36] and concerns. So, we moved a little bit
[1:05:39] into that towards the end. Um again, a
[1:05:41] random order and it is a different
[1:05:43] random order. So, not everyone is always
[1:05:45] at the end or the beginning. [laughter]
[1:05:47] I I I thought of that. So um
[1:05:51] again quick round robin on this one. Um
[1:05:54] we start with councelor brevik.
[1:05:58] » Point of clarification. Are they
[1:06:00] answering each qu should we ask a
[1:06:02] question wait for an answer or we are
[1:06:05] >> we we are collecting after all 13 I will
[1:06:08] go back to the consultants to see if
[1:06:10] there's any they would like to address
[1:06:12] or
[1:06:12] >> Got it. Sorry if you said that.
[1:06:14] >> No no no I didn't. So thank you for
[1:06:15] asking that clarification. Um,
[1:06:17] [laughter]
[1:06:18] Council Breick.
[1:06:20] >> Okay. So, my main question was answered
[1:06:22] in that little last round that we just
[1:06:23] had, but is really that question about
[1:06:26] revenue generation as obviously that is
[1:06:28] such a primary goal for us on the
[1:06:30] council,
[1:06:32] how it what what it will look like to
[1:06:34] estimate revenue generation as part of
[1:06:37] this process. I'm just curious since it
[1:06:39] obviously depends so much on the
[1:06:42] specific development and the developer
[1:06:44] and the market and so many different
[1:06:46] factors. So I'm I'm just cur curious
[1:06:49] about the process for estimating revenue
[1:06:52] generation as part as part of the master
[1:06:55] plan. Um, and then I had another
[1:06:57] question on um, the focus groups and the
[1:07:02] community engagement process and just
[1:07:03] thinking about equity and diversity and
[1:07:06] how you plan to ensure that you're
[1:07:08] getting diverse perspectives and hearing
[1:07:11] from lots of different types of
[1:07:13] stakeholders in that process.
[1:07:15] >> Thank you, Councelor Greimer.
[1:07:19] >> Um, my concerns are the following.
[1:07:21] There's some trends that are happening
[1:07:24] that I think even our existing plans
[1:07:27] don't quite take into consideration and
[1:07:29] some of these unfortunately have been
[1:07:31] brought on by the present administration
[1:07:32] in Washington. For example, UMass
[1:07:35] Ammerst has accepted 200 less graduate
[1:07:38] students because their research dollars
[1:07:41] are down by 10%. And recovering from
[1:07:44] that isn't going to happen overnight and
[1:07:46] it won't happen with the midterm
[1:07:48] elections. So there's things happening
[1:07:51] in town that are affecting the
[1:07:54] population that in fact comes to this
[1:07:56] town. Another one is in general western
[1:08:00] Mass is not growing. In fact, it's
[1:08:02] losing population. The town the state of
[1:08:06] Massachusetts will probably lose a
[1:08:08] congressional seat in this in the next
[1:08:10] round.
[1:08:11] And you know, Ammerst is attractive, but
[1:08:14] are we can we really buck the trend of
[1:08:17] what's going on with our region in
[1:08:19] general?
[1:08:20] And when you drive up and down our
[1:08:22] streets, you see a lot of rentals still
[1:08:25] available right now. And they're the
[1:08:27] older homes, frankly, that aren't as
[1:08:30] attractive to live in. So besides that,
[1:08:34] absolutely no data centers.
[1:08:38] Uh, councelor Tob.
[1:08:44] » Um,
[1:08:45] yeah. Well, my concern um is also with
[1:08:49] our declining population. Um, I know I
[1:08:54] think it was in the presentation that
[1:08:55] may have been given to the planning
[1:08:56] board. I listen uh by the consultants um
[1:08:59] last week. I listened to that and um
[1:09:03] there there was discussion and of
[1:09:07] you know of doing a study to really see
[1:09:09] what the need for housing is here. I
[1:09:11] mean, we know that there are people that
[1:09:14] want to live in Amherst that aren't able
[1:09:17] to, but um so my question would be, what
[1:09:21] kind of investigation is being done to
[1:09:25] really get a handle on what the demand
[1:09:27] for different kinds of housing is?
[1:09:30] Because I would think that even
[1:09:32] potential developers that would be
[1:09:34] purchasing the land are probably doing
[1:09:36] that investigation as well. And then my
[1:09:39] question again about you know what um
[1:09:42] which is why I think senior housing is
[1:09:45] something that there is a demand for
[1:09:48] because our population in Amorest is
[1:09:50] aging and a lot of us would like to stay
[1:09:53] here as we may downsize from our homes.
[1:09:58] >> That's my question.
[1:09:59] >> Thank you councelor Walker.
[1:10:02] >> Uh thank you. And this is to share some
[1:10:04] of the concerns we have correct?
[1:10:06] >> Yes. Concerns and questions. Um
[1:10:09] I think I mean overall my concern is the
[1:10:13] general ownership um and who will come
[1:10:16] forward to purchase
[1:10:18] the the land and facilities and whether
[1:10:21] or not there that there will be multiple
[1:10:23] buyers and if that will make this
[1:10:26] process uh more challenging for us.
[1:10:29] um and whether or not our zoning
[1:10:32] practices will actually be able to guide
[1:10:34] this process or if we'll end up having
[1:10:36] to be reactive with our zoning. Um
[1:10:39] that's a concern for me. Um, I'm also
[1:10:42] just concerned about the benefit to the
[1:10:45] overall town and and local use and how
[1:10:48] our residents will be able to util
[1:10:49] utilize this space, but also hoping that
[1:10:53] current residents who are either cost
[1:10:55] burdened or just looking for other
[1:10:57] housing opportunities will have priority
[1:11:00] access um to whatever development if
[1:11:03] there is housing development here. Um
[1:11:05] and then also just looking at measuring
[1:11:07] and predicting revenue generation.
[1:11:12] >> Thank you. Councelor Delin Goth here.
[1:11:15] >> This round robin thing is exciting.
[1:11:17] Never know. Um
[1:11:20] >> is your mic on?
[1:11:21] >> It it is. Okay. I know. I
[1:11:24] um if you can't hear me, tell me. So, I
[1:11:29] have concerns about single ownership and
[1:11:31] when we think about zoning and I know
[1:11:33] again that this is a concern that is
[1:11:35] likely to be realized. Um, but I I have
[1:11:38] concerns about one developer, one
[1:11:40] organization purchasing the entire
[1:11:41] property. Um, which is why when I'm
[1:11:43] thinking about the zoning, I like the
[1:11:45] idea of like the idea of zoning pieces
[1:11:48] of it, uh, agricultural pieces of it,
[1:11:51] uh, you know, uh, residential things
[1:11:53] like that versus the entire thing in one
[1:11:56] area or, yeah, however we can encourage
[1:11:59] multiple folks coming in, I think
[1:12:01] supports that vision of more of a
[1:12:03] community uh, and and different types of
[1:12:06] entities entering that space. Um I am
[1:12:09] and with that I am concerned with the
[1:12:13] general exploitation of broad brush
[1:12:14] zoning. So if we think about making it
[1:12:16] too vague, we know that people are going
[1:12:18] to find loopholes. We know that people
[1:12:20] are going to um I mean capitalism
[1:12:22] exists, right? So how do we make sure
[1:12:24] that we're we're not
[1:12:27] that we're encouraging the use of this
[1:12:29] property in a way that supports our tax
[1:12:31] base without making it so broad that
[1:12:33] we're going to end up with something we
[1:12:35] really are afraid of going. Um that's
[1:12:37] not necessarily the most helpful framing
[1:12:39] for you all, but that is my concern. Um
[1:12:42] and then I I know in the prior
[1:12:44] conversation, Jeeoff, you said this
[1:12:45] wasn't a concern to you um when when
[1:12:48] asked about data centers. And I know
[1:12:49] that this is kind of the hot topic
[1:12:51] generally, but data centers are one
[1:12:53] example of this kind of largecale
[1:12:56] development coming in. And so when I
[1:12:57] think about largecale anything, um I I I
[1:13:00] keep pushing the idea of multiple
[1:13:02] different entities because the idea of
[1:13:04] one thing taking over a huge part of
[1:13:06] that land concerns.
[1:13:09] >> Thank you. Um Councelor Kennel Martin.
[1:13:14] » Yeah. Um, I mean, I think my biggest
[1:13:16] concern, and I I think I might have I
[1:13:18] did bring this up at an, um, previous
[1:13:20] [clears throat] meeting, was just, um,
[1:13:22] how can you have a process that's really
[1:13:24] inclusive and participatory when we're
[1:13:26] on such a tight timeline? And I think
[1:13:29] that, you know, you can, you know, you
[1:13:31] can certainly have a virtual session
[1:13:32] and, you know, people who come to it are
[1:13:34] going to be the people who tend to come
[1:13:35] to things because they're in the know
[1:13:36] and they're in the loop and they get the
[1:13:38] emails and there's so many parts of our
[1:13:40] community where that just doesn't cut
[1:13:42] it. And we want to make sure that we're
[1:13:44] getting input on how to use this
[1:13:45] property from people um really a
[1:13:47] cross-section of the community, you
[1:13:49] know, including different races,
[1:13:50] different ages, different income levels,
[1:13:54] um you know, different uh just, you
[1:13:56] know, fully representing the diversity
[1:13:57] of Ammerst. And so, um I'm I'm concerned
[1:14:01] if we don't have that level of
[1:14:03] participation that whatever we do come
[1:14:06] up with won't be something that the
[1:14:07] community can support and that can get
[1:14:09] us in trouble down the line. So, um I am
[1:14:12] really concerned um about the process
[1:14:14] piece and you know I think that's really
[1:14:16] my my main concern.
[1:14:20] >> Thank you councelor Shane.
[1:14:24] I uh I'll start with where uh Andy
[1:14:27] Churchill ended on goals on a uh that
[1:14:31] we've got a Hampshire has to move on
[1:14:33] this and we haven't reszoned or we
[1:14:36] haven't come up with what we want to
[1:14:38] reszone and will we be um too late to
[1:14:43] influence what evolves you know if they
[1:14:46] start selling off pieces for example and
[1:14:49] I realize they they've got the challenge
[1:14:51] if it's only zoned for some kind things
[1:14:53] so they're coming for an application.
[1:14:55] So, where the tennis courts, indoor
[1:14:57] tennis courts are are on dry land, it's
[1:14:59] right on Bay Road, great piece of land.
[1:15:02] Will that just disappear while we're
[1:15:04] thinking of what else could happen? So
[1:15:06] it's sort of a a timing issue and and
[1:15:10] the the concern about is it one large
[1:15:14] developer. So if someone came in and
[1:15:16] they um
[1:15:19] one large non-taxable
[1:15:22] entity came in with a lot of money. Um
[1:15:26] do can we zone in a way that it can't be
[1:15:29] reszoned to be all non-t taxable? And
[1:15:32] just so everyone knows, Applewood pays
[1:15:34] taxes, so not all nonprofits are not
[1:15:37] taxable. Um, so I am I am concerned that
[1:15:40] one developer eats up all of it and we
[1:15:43] don't have this opportunity to think of
[1:15:46] cluster cluster development. So honest
[1:15:49] question of should we do it in p some
[1:15:52] pieces. So say some of this is a pur
[1:15:54] these are cluster housing. This is
[1:15:57] senior but senior continuous living. Um,
[1:16:01] so I'll I'll leave it with how do we
[1:16:04] drive the mix that we might want that I
[1:16:06] don't feel like zoning is the is when we don't have ownership is is
[1:16:13] enough of a level and then I just want
[1:16:14] to do when you do the revenue estimates
[1:16:18] try to do net. So if you bring in a huge
[1:16:23] number of families with children, what's
[1:16:26] the school capacity that we have? Do we
[1:16:29] need to build a school? Seniors, active
[1:16:32] seniors, 50 plus. It's not just to move
[1:16:34] people out of their houses. Emmeris is
[1:16:36] an amazing place to retire to. And we
[1:16:40] could be a mecca for active seniors
[1:16:42] because we've got the other colleges and
[1:16:45] universities here. Um my mother was
[1:16:47] advertising in New Jersey. she moved up
[1:16:50] and she was telling all her friends you
[1:16:51] need to move up here and there and they
[1:16:53] were active when I'm saying 15 and plus
[1:16:55] so so just trying to think of you know a
[1:16:58] vibrant community as well but I'm not
[1:17:00] the big concern I have is that we don't
[1:17:03] quite have the levers to get us what we
[1:17:05] want and we'll get to your the last your
[1:17:08] worst worries the 20 years ago from now
[1:17:11] we'll look at what our vision was and
[1:17:14] what did we get but but trying to think
[1:17:16] of what is the best way so is it pieces
[1:17:18] is if we think of zoning that's more
[1:17:21] likely to encourage what we want rather
[1:17:24] than just a master plan but very
[1:17:26] specific pieces.
[1:17:28] >> Thank you, Council Ryan.
[1:17:32] » So, three things. One, I worry about the
[1:17:35] market. Um, I think there's a general
[1:17:38] consensus when I'm hearing from my
[1:17:39] colleagues of workforce housing, starter
[1:17:42] homes, affordable housing.
[1:17:45] Does anyone out there want to build what
[1:17:47] we want? I I wonder if there's a market.
[1:17:49] Um, and that's nothing I think that's
[1:17:51] just a fear I have that that there's no
[1:17:53] market. There's this is is this
[1:17:55] financially viable? Um, is one thing I'm
[1:17:57] concerned about. Second has to do with
[1:18:00] the the scenario that what if
[1:18:05] this simply remains largely uh non-t
[1:18:08] taxable. If it remains essentially still
[1:18:10] pretty much Hampshire College 2.0,
[1:18:13] what's our plan B? Is there a plan B? Is
[1:18:15] that like game over? Um, that's what I
[1:18:19] worry about concerns. And finally, I
[1:18:22] think what we're doing makes a lot of
[1:18:23] sense. I appreciate very much the work
[1:18:25] that our planning department and our
[1:18:28] consultants are doing, but I my other
[1:18:30] concern is the impact of this on all the
[1:18:32] other things that Japanese department
[1:18:34] are being asked to do. The town's other
[1:18:36] more, you know, pressing immediate
[1:18:38] concerns with planning and development.
[1:18:40] Um, I think it was mentioned earlier, we
[1:18:42] have an aging housing stock. A lot of
[1:18:44] those starter homes that were built in
[1:18:46] the 70s are now aging out and what can
[1:18:49] we as a town do to assist their owners?
[1:18:51] What can we do to address that? There
[1:18:53] are a number of issues. So what's the
[1:18:55] impact of focusing on this over the next
[1:18:57] four, five, six months on the very
[1:19:00] important work that our planning
[1:19:01] department is also doing in other areas?
[1:19:04] >> Thank you, Council Mloud.
[1:19:07] >> Uh thank you, Mandy. Uh concerns. Uh who
[1:19:11] buys it? that's if if it gets sold I
[1:19:15] who's who buys it and all the
[1:19:17] implications there associated with it um
[1:19:23] if if it get gets bought by developer uh
[1:19:28] or whoever what are the financial
[1:19:30] impacts to the town uh not just tax
[1:19:34] revenue but other expenses this kind of
[1:19:36] aligns with what uh Kathy was
[1:19:39] referencing in terms of net what what
[1:19:41] expenses might the town have affiliated
[1:19:43] with any form of development or
[1:19:45] otherwise? Uh, it's not relevant to our
[1:19:49] conversation, but I do have concerns for
[1:19:51] the existing Hampshire community. I
[1:19:53] can't help but think about the people
[1:19:56] who've lost their jobs, the students who
[1:19:58] have lost their um, college. I mean,
[1:20:03] it's awful. Uh, and we have to consider
[1:20:06] what we're considering, but
[1:20:09] and I don't know what we can do in that
[1:20:11] regard because the the talk clock is
[1:20:13] ticking and Hampshire has made its
[1:20:15] determinations, but yeah, I I have great
[1:20:19] uh uh concerns for the existing folks.
[1:20:22] It's uh it's a terrible shame. Um,
[1:20:27] other than that,
[1:20:29] probably nothing new than we've already
[1:20:30] discussed. I I may come up with
[1:20:32] something down the road. uh getting
[1:20:35] opinions from all the different members
[1:20:38] of the community that uh both councelor
[1:20:40] Breick and councelor Kan Mart
[1:20:42] referenced. I think it's very important
[1:20:45] in a quote unquote brainstorming
[1:20:48] process, which is what we're doing right
[1:20:50] now, that we seek to receive as many uh
[1:20:54] different thoughts and ideas as we can
[1:20:57] because you never know if there's
[1:20:58] somebody in the room metaphorically who
[1:21:01] uh stays silent. But that person could
[1:21:04] be uh you know just a brilliant or a
[1:21:08] great idea and we wouldn't know it if we
[1:21:11] didn't hear about it. So I would say
[1:21:13] reaching our net wide to collect ideas
[1:21:16] to filter through because uh we're only
[1:21:19] 13 or you know 20 folks here. Thank you.
[1:21:22] >> Thank you councelor Rooney.
[1:21:26] So um I think my concern is that in this
[1:21:30] time frame we have
[1:21:33] enough of a enough of a general layout a
[1:21:36] general master plan that somehow gives a
[1:21:40] sense of logical zones of development
[1:21:44] as you're analyzing the property. you
[1:21:46] see logical zones of development that in
[1:21:49] fact if Hampshire trustees were to um
[1:21:54] subdivide the property there would be
[1:21:56] some again some logical subdivision of
[1:21:59] that piece. So it might not go
[1:22:01] necessarily to one huge operator but it
[1:22:04] may be able to be parcled out. Um part
[1:22:07] of that subdivision is um separating out
[1:22:11] the roads so that those become
[1:22:14] essentially public roads and not uh
[1:22:17] private ways that exclude access to some
[1:22:20] of the pe the facilities that are there
[1:22:22] like Eric Carl and and Yiddish Book
[1:22:24] Center.
[1:22:26] >> Thank you.
[1:22:27] Councelor Churchill.
[1:22:33] I guess
[1:22:35] um one of my concerns is that nothing
[1:22:37] happens. Um either that we can't coales
[1:22:40] around a vision or we get tripped up
[1:22:43] because we're like oh we can't spend the
[1:22:45] money for infrastructure so we don't we let that be a barrier for us doing
[1:22:50] what needs what what would really be a
[1:22:52] benefit um if we could get past the
[1:22:55] inevitable barriers that we'll have to
[1:22:57] hop over. So, um, another concern would
[1:23:01] be that it would be sold to a non-t
[1:23:03] taxable educational or religious
[1:23:05] organization and so we wouldn't get any
[1:23:06] benefit out of it and we might not, um,
[1:23:09] be as happy with our new neighbors as we
[1:23:11] were were with our old ones. Um,
[1:23:14] and I guess um, the other is that I mean
[1:23:18] we've talked about whether you know the
[1:23:19] decisions going to be made for us and whether you know how how much
[1:23:23] control we have. So I I guess but I
[1:23:25] guess the other one would be that um
[1:23:29] you know I wouldn't want it just to be a
[1:23:31] sterile subdivision. I'd like it to be
[1:23:33] you know I would worry that that
[1:23:36] somebody comes in and does this lowest
[1:23:37] common denominator approach to you want
[1:23:40] housing here's housing and and then it's
[1:23:43] just kind of a dead subdivision. So
[1:23:45] that'd be a concern.
[1:23:47] >> Thank you councelor Lord.
[1:23:51] Um, thank you. Uh,
[1:23:54] some of these concerns may not be
[1:23:57] connected to zoning, but how much
[1:24:00] influence will the community really
[1:24:02] have, as have mentioned by a couple of
[1:24:04] my fellow counselors? Like, at what
[1:24:05] points can community input actually
[1:24:07] change the outcomes? How are we
[1:24:09] intentionally hearing from renters,
[1:24:11] low-income residents, black and brown
[1:24:13] residents, young people, elders, people
[1:24:15] with disabilities,
[1:24:17] um, and other residents who don't
[1:24:19] ordinarily, not saying those groups
[1:24:21] don't, but any residents who don't
[1:24:23] ordinarily participate in planning
[1:24:24] meetings. Um, who will actually benefit
[1:24:27] from redevelopment?
[1:24:29] I know we don't have a lot of control
[1:24:30] over some of these things. Um will
[1:24:33] whoever buys or
[1:24:37] singular or multiple are they planning
[1:24:40] for a community is just about
[1:24:42] development
[1:24:43] we can't say what is your intention but
[1:24:45] I don't know what maybe we can like what
[1:24:46] commitments can Ammeris make enforceable
[1:24:49] through zoning and permitting
[1:24:51] conservation restrictions and then this
[1:24:54] might be for the next question but it
[1:24:56] also it connect because what are we in
[1:24:59] danger of losing that we can never get
[1:25:00] back. Hampshire
[1:25:03] is a legacy that maybe could be
[1:25:04] preserved in one of the facets, one of
[1:25:07] the parcels, one of the present, the
[1:25:09] culture,
[1:25:11] the arts. Yeah, that's so that might be
[1:25:14] the next question, but that's also
[1:25:15] present in the what are we at risk of
[1:25:18] losing that we can't get back? And then
[1:25:20] of course the financial impact. And I'm
[1:25:21] not repeating some of the things other
[1:25:23] people said. Thank you.
[1:25:24] >> Thank you. Um my turn is next. And some
[1:25:28] of my concerns are sort of what what
[1:25:31] councelor Ryan mentioned about the
[1:25:32] market. If whatever our master plan is
[1:25:35] or whatever we're doing, will it get
[1:25:37] built? You know, we've got the declining
[1:25:39] population. What do we need to do to
[1:25:41] sort of ensure that what our vision is
[1:25:44] happens? Um my concern is we have the
[1:25:47] vision and nothing happens with it. Um,
[1:25:52] I have a concern that um, we will, and
[1:25:58] I'm going to get hit for this, conserve
[1:25:59] too much land. We have a lot of
[1:26:01] conserved land in town. As we've seen on
[1:26:04] these maps, there is a lot of buffer.
[1:26:06] There is a lot of wetland. There is a
[1:26:08] lot of stuff that already cannot be
[1:26:09] built on. I have a concern that more
[1:26:13] will be added to that to the detriment
[1:26:15] of housing.
[1:26:18] um and that we
[1:26:22] will end up with housing at higher costs
[1:26:25] and less density because we've added
[1:26:29] more land to the buildable land that is
[1:26:31] not going to get built on. Um and then
[1:26:35] we've heard a lot about um who is being
[1:26:39] listened to in these public sessions.
[1:26:42] Um, so I have a concern that we're not
[1:26:46] going to seek input or we can't get
[1:26:48] input or we're not going to hear from
[1:26:49] the people who want to live here but
[1:26:51] aren't already here. What do they need?
[1:26:55] Um,
[1:26:56] it's it's not just about what our own
[1:27:00] residents want. If we're looking to
[1:27:01] build 2,000 units, that's not going to
[1:27:05] be occupied by who's currently here
[1:27:07] solely. that's going to be occupied by
[1:27:10] people who haven't been able to live
[1:27:12] here for whatever reason and how do we
[1:27:15] ensure that we know what they want and
[1:27:17] what would help them move to Ammerst and
[1:27:21] what type of housing there. So that's my
[1:27:22] concerns. That ends the 13 counselor
[1:27:26] round robin. Um I'm going to send it
[1:27:29] back to the consultants but ask if
[1:27:32] there's a way to answer or address
[1:27:34] particularly two of the concerns that I
[1:27:36] heard pop up.
[1:27:38] um a a couple of times which is the the
[1:27:42] focus group the public process here um
[1:27:44] and the concerns that we have about that
[1:27:46] since that's one of the more immediate
[1:27:48] ones that that doesn't necessarily
[1:27:50] relate to zoning and then the concern
[1:27:52] about sort of all-encompassing the
[1:27:55] declining population the making sure it
[1:27:57] gets built have things like that um if
[1:27:59] that could be addressed before we move
[1:28:02] on to any other counselor concerns or
[1:28:04] questions from the consultants
[1:28:07] Yeah. So, the the good news is um
[1:28:10] assuming the project budget is approved,
[1:28:14] which is still pending with the state,
[1:28:16] but we're confident hopeful. Um but we
[1:28:20] have a a lot of hours to put into public
[1:28:22] participation. So, we'll be having the two public workshops at the Eric
[1:28:27] Carl Museum later in September. We'll be
[1:28:30] having another big public workshop
[1:28:31] beginning of November, which are, you
[1:28:34] know, traditional opportunities, but for
[1:28:36] people who have the means to get to the
[1:28:39] a room at 6:30 on an evening and have
[1:28:43] the wherewithal to participate. So, we
[1:28:46] are looking at other ways to reach out
[1:28:48] to people and particularly to go to
[1:28:50] groups where they are. I think probably
[1:28:53] the main part that's built into the
[1:28:54] budget now are these focus groups that
[1:28:56] we have uh budgeted for in October which
[1:29:01] will allow us to meet with whoever wants
[1:29:03] to meet with us wherever they can meet
[1:29:05] with us and
[1:29:09] we don't have the budget to meet with
[1:29:10] people individually but to the extent
[1:29:12] that you could for instance help us
[1:29:14] identify who we should be meeting with
[1:29:17] and help us connect with people who
[1:29:19] might um organize those meetings and
[1:29:22] help to run them. We have the time to do
[1:29:25] that. We'll also be working with
[1:29:27] existing town resources um the DEI DEI
[1:29:32] office um and getting their help and
[1:29:36] ideas for how to reach out to
[1:29:37] underserved populations. Um but it's a
[1:29:40] hard one. As you say, the people who
[1:29:42] this is going to serve, some of them
[1:29:44] aren't even born yet and they're not in
[1:29:46] Ammerst. Um
[1:29:49] so part of that is using existing
[1:29:52] reports and studies like as Nate said
[1:29:54] you're very good uh brand new
[1:29:57] practically housing production plan
[1:29:59] which does go into a great deal of
[1:30:00] detail in terms of demographic changes
[1:30:03] demographic challenges who is served by
[1:30:06] housing and who is not and what's
[1:30:07] needed. So, we'll be building on that um
[1:30:11] to try to get a sense by proxy of, you
[1:30:14] know, who's going to live here 20 years
[1:30:15] from now and what are they going to
[1:30:16] need. Um I wanted to ask if any of you
[1:30:20] have can point to a project, an effort
[1:30:24] in Ammerst or elsewhere that has done a
[1:30:27] really good job at involving people who
[1:30:30] aren't usually involved in planning
[1:30:32] projects.
[1:30:33] Maybe you don't have to answer that
[1:30:34] right now, but keep it in mind. Uh
[1:30:37] because we're always looking for what's
[1:30:39] worked rather than just try something
[1:30:43] and hope it does work.
[1:30:47] >> Anything else before I go to the
[1:30:48] counselors?
[1:30:50] We're going to go to councelor Ko
[1:30:52] Martin. Raise your hand.
[1:30:56] » Yeah, I mean I would I would suggest a
[1:30:58] couple things in in terms of like where
[1:31:00] to get feedback. I definitely think um
[1:31:02] the schools are are a great place to go
[1:31:05] just because so many people are are
[1:31:06] there anyway for their children and um
[1:31:09] one of the things that I know that the
[1:31:10] public schools do um that's really
[1:31:12] helpful is when they have an event um
[1:31:14] they provide busing from the apartment
[1:31:16] complexes which is like another you know
[1:31:19] population of folks that we want to talk
[1:31:20] to especially if we're talking housing.
[1:31:22] So, um I think that you know the schools
[1:31:24] and the apartment complexes, like I
[1:31:26] think we all have in our districts, we
[1:31:29] all have some apartment complexes and we
[1:31:31] could definitely like help spread the
[1:31:32] word to them about you know some kind of
[1:31:34] listening session or focus group and I'm
[1:31:36] certainly happy to help with that in
[1:31:37] district 2. Um and then the other thing
[1:31:40] I just wanted to lift up as well um is
[1:31:43] the language access piece. And so I
[1:31:45] think that if you're not already at
[1:31:47] least advertising um in English and
[1:31:50] Spanish and you know potentially looking
[1:31:52] at other languages would be really
[1:31:54] important and then and making it clear
[1:31:56] that there will be interpretation at the
[1:31:58] [clears throat] session so that people
[1:31:59] know that ahead of time. So it's not a
[1:32:01] question of like do I come and then I
[1:32:02] won't be able to understand anything.
[1:32:03] It's more like that resource is already
[1:32:05] there. Um so I just wanted to lift those
[1:32:08] things up.
[1:32:10] >> Thank you councelor Greamer
[1:32:12] >> on that topic. Um there are several
[1:32:14] nonprofits that serve the various um
[1:32:18] groups within Ammerst and I think
[1:32:20] connecting with them for focus uh groups
[1:32:23] would be an excellent way to go. Uh
[1:32:26] separate from that I want to just go
[1:32:28] back on this issue of workforce housing.
[1:32:30] Ammeris College is also focused on this
[1:32:33] right now. They've actually identified a
[1:32:36] piece of property they're in the process
[1:32:37] of studying.
[1:32:39] But do we really know if they want to
[1:32:41] move here or is it just easy to say, "I
[1:32:44] can't afford it." But actually, they're
[1:32:47] very invested in the community they live
[1:32:49] two communities over. They're on
[1:32:51] councils and committees there. Their
[1:32:55] spouse works there. Their kids love the
[1:32:57] school. Are we really expecting those
[1:33:01] people to move to Ammerst because one of
[1:33:03] them work, you know, has a job at one of
[1:33:06] the colleges? And so I really think
[1:33:10] workforce housing is a wonderful
[1:33:12] statement, but I would like to make sure
[1:33:14] that you investigate to the extent
[1:33:16] possible whether or not those people
[1:33:19] would really move to Ammerst. It's a it's a technical issue.
[1:33:25] >> Thank you, Councelor Shane.
[1:33:28] I'm just read your question of have
[1:33:31] there been any successful involvement
[1:33:33] and one in North Ammeris is belly CDC is about to open a bunch of duplexes. Um
[1:33:42] it's pretty dense envelop development
[1:33:45] with some shared green space. Early on
[1:33:48] they involved the whole North Ammeris
[1:33:50] group uh invited people in and they had
[1:33:53] little boxes you could move around the
[1:33:55] land to see how this might work and they
[1:33:58] changed the design. They ended up not
[1:34:01] having whether it's a good outcome or
[1:34:03] not but not having any onebedroom so
[1:34:05] it's two and threebedroom and they
[1:34:08] originally had some market rate but it's
[1:34:11] all affordable because they realized
[1:34:12] they couldn't support the market rates.
[1:34:15] I mean the market rates would be too
[1:34:17] high. So it it's it was very welcome
[1:34:20] would be the other thing because of
[1:34:22] that. And then way back when and I'm not
[1:34:25] I wasn't around when it was developed.
[1:34:27] Puffton Village is a place that was
[1:34:31] developed. There was a lot of community
[1:34:33] input way back when and it's a beautiful
[1:34:36] layout on um quite dense all low you
[1:34:41] know not tall buildings but there's a
[1:34:44] lot of shared outdoor space and whoever
[1:34:47] came up with those concepts um did a
[1:34:50] good job of blending it in in a
[1:34:53] different way than some of the other big
[1:34:55] buildings that have come in. So looking
[1:34:57] into the Puffton history and how much
[1:35:00] community involvement and how much that
[1:35:02] was just the developers already knew
[1:35:04] that's where they wanted to go.
[1:35:07] >> Thank you councelor Mloud.
[1:35:10] >> Uh thank you. uh regarding outreach
[1:35:15] uh thought enter do we have an online
[1:35:18] questionnaire that could be forwarded to
[1:35:21] you know constituents or others about
[1:35:24] here are questions we might have
[1:35:26] regarding uh what you think about
[1:35:29] Hampshire
[1:35:31] avenue I think schools is probably the best uh location we used to use them
[1:35:38] with our soccer league and other sports
[1:35:40] leagues And it was always extremely
[1:35:42] effective. Of course, it was youth
[1:35:44] sports, but um you know, the schools are
[1:35:48] great, but online forms of information
[1:35:50] requests, not just for the counselors,
[1:35:53] but that could be sent out in general
[1:35:56] for the purpose of brainstorming, uh
[1:35:59] could be effective.
[1:36:01] >> Thank you, councelor Breick.
[1:36:04] Yeah, I just wanted to add um as
[1:36:06] counselors, we're all required to hold
[1:36:08] two district meetings per year and that
[1:36:10] could be a good setting. They're sort of
[1:36:13] focus groups in themselves. Um you know,
[1:36:16] people handle them different ways, but I
[1:36:18] think that could be a good opportunity
[1:36:20] if we all wanted to think about how we
[1:36:22] could use um use our district meetings
[1:36:25] to get feedback or partner with you guys
[1:36:27] to, you know, have a presentation or
[1:36:29] something like that. Thank you,
[1:36:31] Councelor Churchill.
[1:36:35] >> Councelor Breivik, be me to it. I think
[1:36:37] that we you have third you have 10
[1:36:40] district uh reps who all are going to
[1:36:42] have district meetings and they have
[1:36:44] their lists of of constituents and the
[1:36:48] atlarge folks can come to those too. So,
[1:36:50] um use us to generate put put the burden
[1:36:53] on us to generate the the audience
[1:36:56] >> in part.
[1:36:59] Thank you. I wanted to touch back on the
[1:37:02] concept of workforce housing and just
[1:37:04] comment that workforce housing isn't
[1:37:06] just about existing workers. Um it's not
[1:37:08] like a mass migration would happen,
[1:37:10] right? Uh this is we know that the
[1:37:13] institutions in the area are struggling
[1:37:16] with their staff and faculty like
[1:37:18] filling positions because there isn't a
[1:37:20] place for folks to move to. So I just
[1:37:22] and we hear it from our own employees,
[1:37:24] right? that they'd love to live in
[1:37:26] Ammerst and we're not I don't think that
[1:37:28] it's realistic to suggest that anyone
[1:37:30] would up and leave their current home um
[1:37:33] if especially if they are have a home
[1:37:34] ownership opportunity currently but our
[1:37:37] community is constantly shifting because
[1:37:40] of the industries in our town. So we see
[1:37:42] new people coming in and it would be
[1:37:44] interesting if you had uh conversations
[1:37:46] with folks at the college and the
[1:37:48] university about what they're seeing for
[1:37:50] from a hiring perspective in terms of
[1:37:52] folks coming in needing housing. um
[1:37:54] because I think that that is a
[1:37:56] challenge. Uh I anticipate that will be
[1:37:58] a challenge you hear about. And then I
[1:38:00] just wanted to um Kathy was talking
[1:38:02] about different models. I I also think
[1:38:04] the housing co-ops have been really
[1:38:05] interesting um to see how those have
[1:38:08] functioned in our town and elsewhere. Um
[1:38:10] and then just both jar on the the point
[1:38:14] about district meetings and utilizing us
[1:38:16] as communication vehicles.
[1:38:19] >> Thank you councelor Tom.
[1:38:21] >> Yes. Again, picking up on district
[1:38:23] mailing lists, if um I think it was Andy
[1:38:27] who suggested no Sam of having um if
[1:38:30] there was a questionnaire that could be
[1:38:32] distributed directly to residents
[1:38:34] because if there is, that's also
[1:38:35] something we can send out to our
[1:38:37] district mailing lists. And I think when
[1:38:39] you put all of us together, it gets to
[1:38:42] be in the thousands of recipients on
[1:38:44] those lists. And I just this is kind of
[1:38:46] a question when you um do a when you try
[1:38:52] and determine what the demand is for
[1:38:54] housing in Ammerst, does that also get
[1:38:57] to you know um workers in Ammerst
[1:39:02] currently and in the future that would
[1:39:04] want to live live here? I guess I'm kind
[1:39:06] of wondering how you do that
[1:39:08] kind of research to get a handle on
[1:39:10] that. You don't have to answer it now,
[1:39:12] but um you know because that that is a
[1:39:15] question we all want housing um and what
[1:39:18] really is the demand for different kinds
[1:39:21] of housing in Ammerst.
[1:39:24] >> Thank you. Um Nate and Peter, any
[1:39:28] thoughts, questions, clarifying
[1:39:31] questions you'd like to ask before we
[1:39:34] move on?
[1:39:49] I think maybe one
[1:39:51] piece to hone in on here and and this
[1:39:54] has been said a number of times is this
[1:39:57] the the
[1:39:59] natural like totally understandable
[1:40:01] trepidation about who buys this this
[1:40:03] land, right? So, um that is something
[1:40:06] the town nor the zoning, neither the
[1:40:09] town nor the zoning um you know
[1:40:12] ultimately decides. Um and so that is
[1:40:15] sort of like the the bottom line of
[1:40:17] that. Um but the zoning
[1:40:21] can will send a signal you know if if
[1:40:24] there is if if the land is not yet
[1:40:26] purchased uh once the zoning gets
[1:40:29] adopted the zoning sends a signal and
[1:40:31] those are important uh to future
[1:40:33] developers. So um you know I don't want
[1:40:36] to be sort of pie in the sky but it's
[1:40:39] but I will speak directly from my
[1:40:41] professional experience. There are a lot
[1:40:43] of developers out there who are really
[1:40:45] passionate about their work and who
[1:40:47] really have amazing portfolios and love
[1:40:51] to build these communities. This is
[1:40:53] their products. They they of course find
[1:40:56] it profitable. Um but it's not easy,
[1:41:00] right? This is somebody talked about
[1:41:02] sort of like token subdivisions. That's
[1:41:04] easy. That's an easy way to build
[1:41:06] housing and that's an easy way to make a
[1:41:09] buck is to just do sort of standard
[1:41:12] subdivisions. So these developers are
[1:41:15] driven by profit but they're also driven
[1:41:18] by their own sort of personal vision of
[1:41:21] what they want to create. And so then
[1:41:23] you see that in their portfolio. So that
[1:41:26] is something that you know u can and
[1:41:29] hopefully will like drive this when
[1:41:32] there's a when there's a purchaser when
[1:41:34] there when there's somebody going
[1:41:35] forward. We cannot um even if you wanted
[1:41:39] to you could not zone out the
[1:41:42] possibility of a nonprofit
[1:41:44] uh educational institution purchasing
[1:41:47] you you know this right? I see a lot of
[1:41:48] nodding heads. So yes, a religious
[1:41:51] institution, an educational institution,
[1:41:53] no matter what we zone this property
[1:41:56] for, that is still on the table, right?
[1:41:58] Those are part of uh sort of statutory
[1:42:00] protections that those those uses have.
[1:42:03] And so that is that is part of this
[1:42:05] process that is that's part of the the
[1:42:08] consideration that you need to think
[1:42:10] about. Um but again, the zoning sends
[1:42:13] the signal um for something different.
[1:42:16] Right now, the zoning just says
[1:42:17] nonprofit educational institution. Uh,
[1:42:20] but new zoning, part of the reason why
[1:42:22] this is um we're trying to do this as
[1:42:25] efficiently as we can. Uh, while at the
[1:42:27] same time being comprehensive and
[1:42:29] thoughtful about this is that you want
[1:42:31] to send that signal and you want to get
[1:42:33] that out um, you know, expeditiously.
[1:42:37] Um,
[1:42:51] I mean, for my part,
[1:42:53] >> um, you know, I think we have the same
[1:42:55] concerns as you do about the the
[1:42:57] marketability of this and, you know, if
[1:42:58] we build if you build it, if you zone
[1:43:00] it, will they come? Um,
[1:43:04] I think that the good news, my
[1:43:07] observation is this is a really unusual
[1:43:09] site as you know. Not just is it a
[1:43:12] credible spot in the planet to live and
[1:43:15] work uh if you can uh but also it's
[1:43:19] already got roads, parking lots, water
[1:43:23] and sewer, and lots of vacant space. You
[1:43:27] don't have to tear anything down to
[1:43:28] start building a lot of stuff if that's
[1:43:30] what you want to do.
[1:43:32] Um, I mean there's that 200 acres does
[1:43:34] include the existing campus, but there's
[1:43:36] also acres and acres of just empty land
[1:43:40] and a lot of it's just lawn, right? It's
[1:43:43] not being farmed right now. There is
[1:43:46] huge opportunities there right now with
[1:43:48] water and sewer and space and the
[1:43:51] location.
[1:43:52] So I think like Nate, I've been spending
[1:43:55] some decades looking at how development
[1:43:57] happens and seeing what happens and how
[1:43:59] we how it shapes our towns. So this
[1:44:01] really seems like an unusual really
[1:44:04] unique opportunity. Uh and I'm hoping
[1:44:06] that it could be something really great.
[1:44:09] U but it's great to hear because these
[1:44:12] concerns are then we're going to take
[1:44:14] them back and talk to you three and
[1:44:15] figure out how do we really get a handle
[1:44:17] on this? How do we know and when will we
[1:44:19] know it? and is it possible to know it?
[1:44:22] And then we'll come back to you and give
[1:44:24] you the answers hopefully.
[1:44:27] >> Thank you, Nate.
[1:44:29] >> Yeah, I think another thing that I
[1:44:31] wanted to speak to, it came up I think
[1:44:32] with three three different members here.
[1:44:35] Um had to do with the financial
[1:44:37] modeling. I think councelor Brevik, you
[1:44:40] started off and asking sort of like what
[1:44:41] does this look like? How is this being
[1:44:43] calculated? Um, Council Shane, you know,
[1:44:46] I think you you made the uh the comment
[1:44:49] about the net revenue and council
[1:44:50] method. This is this has been a
[1:44:52] recurring, you know, theme from you
[1:44:54] concern and I guess at the risk of
[1:44:57] punting, um, this is one of the reasons
[1:44:59] why we have an expert on our team who
[1:45:01] has not been. Uh, so we have U3
[1:45:03] advisors. Um, and we we did bring
[1:45:06] someone in who is very adept at
[1:45:09] financial real estate modeling. So, this
[1:45:11] will be a modeled exercise. Um there
[1:45:14] will be assumptions baked into this
[1:45:15] because we're not dealing with actual
[1:45:18] development proposals. We're dealing
[1:45:20] with different development scenarios. Uh
[1:45:22] but we will, you know, we will do
[1:45:23] ballpark estimates of square footage. We
[1:45:26] will do ballpark estimates of um uh
[1:45:30] generated uh students. We will do
[1:45:33] ballpark estimates. We'll be looking at
[1:45:35] sort of like fees versus um flows, you
[1:45:38] know, in terms of uh infrastructure and
[1:45:41] those things. Um so yeah that that is
[1:45:43] all uh baked into this. You know my
[1:45:47] colleague John Tremense would be able to
[1:45:49] answer this much better uh than I but um
[1:45:51] you know you'll see those we'll be very
[1:45:53] transparent about it you know once we
[1:45:55] start testing those scenarios uh as as
[1:45:57] they come through.
[1:45:58] >> Excellent Jeeoff.
[1:46:02] >> So again I really want to thank everyone
[1:46:04] for this opportunity. I think it's been
[1:46:05] very informative heard so much and I
[1:46:08] think we heard a lot on the public
[1:46:09] process. though that's being heard and
[1:46:11] listened to. I do want to say a couple
[1:46:14] words I, you know, that haven't been
[1:46:16] said yet. There's going to need to be
[1:46:17] tradeoffs and there's going to need to
[1:46:19] be balancing as we move forward. Um,
[1:46:22] because we can get a lot of public
[1:46:25] input. It's super valuable, but when it
[1:46:27] comes down to zoning, there are going to
[1:46:28] be a limited number of tools. At the end
[1:46:31] of the day, it's going to be limited
[1:46:32] what we can do through zoning. So, I do
[1:46:34] want to just make the statement to the
[1:46:36] council that when the time comes to go
[1:46:38] through the zoning and and talk about
[1:46:40] adoption, just do not lose the forest
[1:46:42] for the trees. The opportunity that the
[1:46:44] town has will be to create zoning that
[1:46:47] allows these opportunities to happen.
[1:46:48] But if we don't get through that
[1:46:50] process, we will not have the
[1:46:51] opportunity. So, when the time comes,
[1:46:54] January, February, March, you know, just
[1:46:56] keep keep that in mind that this is the
[1:46:58] opportunity and this is the time that we
[1:47:00] need to do something. what I heard and I
[1:47:02] don't want to anchor it too hard on the
[1:47:03] master plan concept but there's a part
[1:47:06] of the public process that would happen
[1:47:07] now to frame the zoning and if we do
[1:47:10] this correctly there might be an
[1:47:11] opportunity through the when there's an
[1:47:12] actual master plan being developed or
[1:47:15] proposed there could be additional
[1:47:16] public input because that's when they're
[1:47:18] actually going to have realistic
[1:47:20] tangible things that would be proposed
[1:47:22] versus the conceptual zoning efforts.
[1:47:25] So, at a certain point, we might need to
[1:47:26] balance the the need for public input
[1:47:29] with passing zoning, understanding that
[1:47:31] there would be a full process that would follow from that. So, we're not
[1:47:35] there yet. I'm just trying to speak
[1:47:37] professionally that at a certain point,
[1:47:38] you know, we will need to talk about
[1:47:41] adopting something that allows the
[1:47:42] opportunities to move forward and
[1:47:44] happen. Um, so, um, that was what I
[1:47:47] wanted to say.
[1:47:48] >> Okay,
[1:47:49] >> that raised a couple of extra hands on
[1:47:51] the council. Um we are approaching our
[1:47:53] 45minut
[1:47:55] um goal on this topic or this prompt. Um
[1:47:58] but there are four hands raised. I
[1:48:00] encourage each of the four that I'm
[1:48:02] going to recognize to be quick um in
[1:48:05] your comments and concise in your
[1:48:07] comments because we're going to then
[1:48:08] move on after those four to the third
[1:48:11] prompt. We start with councelor Rooney.
[1:48:16] » Thank you.
[1:48:18] uh considering a lot of it is
[1:48:20] residential outlying residential low
[1:48:23] density and I just wanted to confirm for us and
[1:48:30] for the public that right now
[1:48:35] and understand it correctly all of
[1:48:39] is currently not taxable.
[1:48:42] So both O RLD and not taxable
[1:48:47] would applying just about any zoning
[1:48:50] type
[1:48:52] besid
[1:48:56] with that
[1:49:02] I'm trying to frame this um we should
[1:49:06] probably we don't want a large scale
[1:49:11] institution
[1:49:14] We probably want to lift and remove the
[1:49:18] ED zoning. Is that correct?
[1:49:23] >> Thank you for that question. Um, we're
[1:49:25] going to move on to Councelor Mloud.
[1:49:28] >> Thank you, Mandy. Uh, following up on a
[1:49:31] comment or question that, uh, Andy had
[1:49:34] previously, uh, Hampshire owns the
[1:49:36] property now. They're in control of what
[1:49:38] happens to it. They've set their own
[1:49:41] expected time frame of closing come
[1:49:43] December. Uh our planning department has
[1:49:47] set an a time frame which I agree with
[1:49:50] for proactively
[1:49:52] uh engaging and trying to be ready when
[1:49:54] the time comes.
[1:49:57] But I didn't hear an answer to Andy's
[1:49:59] question previously, which is currently
[1:50:01] it's Hampshire Collegeowned. It's mostly
[1:50:04] educational in the primary area. At
[1:50:07] [clears throat] what point could the
[1:50:08] town make changes to zoning proactively
[1:50:12] if they wished? Must that wait until
[1:50:16] Hampshire officially closes? Doesn't
[1:50:18] change our process, but I'm just
[1:50:20] curious.
[1:50:23] >> Jeff,
[1:50:24] >> if I understood the question correctly,
[1:50:26] we do not need to wait for anything to
[1:50:29] change the zoning.
[1:50:31] >> Thank you.
[1:50:31] Um, councelor Greimer,
[1:50:34] >> the only thing I want you to be clear
[1:50:36] about, Sam, is that um, even if we zone
[1:50:39] it something else, education can still
[1:50:41] come in.
[1:50:41] >> I understand.
[1:50:42] >> They have a right. And so that's not my
[1:50:45] point. Um, my um, I want to just ask
[1:50:49] Jeff, when are we going to start the
[1:50:50] master plan process in relationship to
[1:50:52] this? Because it seems like it's almost
[1:50:57] >> a possible.
[1:50:58] >> You're asking about the the Ammeris.
[1:51:01] master plan process.
[1:51:03] >> 20 years out soon,
[1:51:05] >> right,
[1:51:05] >> Jeff?
[1:51:08] >> I'm not really prepared to answer. I
[1:51:09] think it was 2030 was the timeline.
[1:51:11] >> 2030 is when we have to adopt something
[1:51:13] new. That's in three and a half years.
[1:51:16] Um, councelor Brevik,
[1:51:18] >> really quick comment that I I love that
[1:51:20] there'll be another opportunity for
[1:51:21] people to give input once the master
[1:51:23] plan is taken more shape, but I think
[1:51:25] that is even more of a reason to focus
[1:51:27] on getting early input. I know just from
[1:51:30] experience that I think if we come to
[1:51:32] people with a plan that's already
[1:51:33] formulated,
[1:51:34] they don't it doesn't usually go over
[1:51:37] that well. I think we can set
[1:51:39] expectations successfully
[1:51:41] and make sure that people understand
[1:51:43] that the early preliminary input is what
[1:51:45] that is what it is. It's preliminary
[1:51:47] input taken in with a lot of different
[1:51:49] factors. But I do think that that first
[1:51:53] step is is hugely important in people
[1:51:55] feeling like we don't just come to them
[1:51:56] after something is 99% done.
[1:51:59] >> Thank you. We are going to move on to
[1:52:01] the third prompt. Um the third prompt is
[1:52:05] and again it will be a quick round robin
[1:52:07] again and there won't be much
[1:52:09] conversation after the roundroin. Um,
[1:52:13] looking ahead 20 years, what outcomes
[1:52:15] would lead you to consider the reuse of
[1:52:17] Hampshire College a success? And what
[1:52:20] outcomes comes would you regard as signs
[1:52:23] that the town made the wrong decisions?
[1:52:26] We start with councelor Ryan.
[1:52:30] I've already spoken to this I think in a
[1:52:32] way and I'm going to pick up on
[1:52:33] something that Andy said earlier um in
[1:52:37] terms of what would be my nightmare
[1:52:39] vision would be a sterile subdivision
[1:52:42] would be um that would be a disaster in
[1:52:46] my view. Um, I think also anything that
[1:52:49] would fail, so you could flip this the
[1:52:51] other way, I guess, in 20 years,
[1:52:54] something that somehow captured or
[1:52:56] preserved
[1:52:57] something that was unique or special to
[1:52:59] Hampshire, which was its vision, its
[1:53:01] educational goal. If it could come up
[1:53:04] with something that would both combine a
[1:53:06] vision of lifelong learning with some of
[1:53:09] our housing and economic goals, that
[1:53:11] would be to me um a success. that that
[1:53:15] something of what Hampshire set out to
[1:53:17] do is still preserved um and yet at the
[1:53:20] same time is providing the kinds of
[1:53:23] economic and housing goals that we are
[1:53:26] eager to to realize. That I guess would
[1:53:29] be my 20-year vision of success and
[1:53:33] you've already heard my 20-year vision
[1:53:35] of failure which I stole from councelor
[1:53:37] Churchill.
[1:53:38] >> Thank you councelor Lord.
[1:53:43] Thank you. I believe we will have made the wrong decision if
[1:53:50] the Hampshire property becomes
[1:53:52] economically successful. Not saying I
[1:53:55] don't want it to be, but economically
[1:53:57] successful while Ammeris becomes less
[1:53:58] affordable, less diverse, less
[1:54:01] connected, and loses natural resources
[1:54:03] that can never be recovered.
[1:54:06] 20 years from now, I would consider the
[1:54:08] reuse of Hampshire College a success. If it has created a genuinely mixed
[1:54:13] income and multi-generational community,
[1:54:16] expanded housing and economic
[1:54:18] opportunity, preserved significant
[1:54:21] farmland, forest, open space,
[1:54:24] provided places for wellness, culture,
[1:54:27] recreation, education, and community
[1:54:30] life, and strengthened Ammeris racial
[1:54:32] and economic diversity. I'd want
[1:54:35] residents to feel that this land became
[1:54:37] more, not less, connected to the broader
[1:54:39] Ammeris community. And most importantly,
[1:54:42] I would want us to be able to say that
[1:54:44] we did not simply develop land, but we
[1:54:46] created community that would give to the
[1:54:50] public good for generations to come. I'm
[1:54:52] not asking too much now. Thank you.
[1:54:55] >> Thank you, Councelor Lord. Councelor
[1:54:57] Shane
[1:55:00] >> uh success would be uh we have a vibrant
[1:55:05] community with uh what we've all talked
[1:55:08] about a mix which has succeeded in
[1:55:11] preserving a lot of community space. Um
[1:55:14] and I totally agree with what uh
[1:55:16] councelor Hani said earlier. We don't
[1:55:18] need to preserve more
[1:55:22] uh wetlands and things. this is at least
[1:55:26] using that 200 acres well um and uh it's
[1:55:31] paying taxes. A failure would be we have
[1:55:35] a lot of dense housing with no sense of
[1:55:37] community. We've lost community spaces
[1:55:40] and we underestimated the cost to our
[1:55:43] infrastructure. Um the sewer system
[1:55:45] doesn't work very well. The waterways
[1:55:48] don't work very well. Um, we we lost we
[1:55:52] have an overdeveloped
[1:55:55] 200 acre lot because we didn't think of
[1:55:58] what could happen um if you just opened
[1:56:00] up that space.
[1:56:02] >> Thank you, Councelor Mloud.
[1:56:04] >> Uh, thank you. I kind of like what
[1:56:07] councelor Lord said, but uh she might
[1:56:10] have had more than three in there. Uh, I
[1:56:12] would say how would I view it a success
[1:56:14] down the road without getting into
[1:56:16] details? I'd say happy residents in
[1:56:18] Amoris regarding the outcome, whatever
[1:56:21] that might be. Uh for me, I would
[1:56:23] indicate mixed housing availability that
[1:56:26] uh works well for those who are living
[1:56:27] there. Uh and an improved financial
[1:56:34] contributing to improvements in the town
[1:56:36] financial situation.
[1:56:38] >> Thank you, Councelor Tub.
[1:56:42] I'm feeling uh repetitious, but I would
[1:56:44] say um I would consider it a success if
[1:56:48] it, you know, was a mixed income and
[1:56:50] multi-generational community that
[1:56:53] provided a variety of housing
[1:56:55] opportunities, both home ownership and
[1:56:58] uh rental, and that had educational
[1:57:01] offerings, many of which have been part
[1:57:04] of the Hampshire College community, as
[1:57:06] well as small businesses that serve the
[1:57:08] diverse residents who would live in the
[1:57:11] new community as well as others in
[1:57:15] Ammerst and surrounding towns.
[1:57:18] And yeah, I would consider it um not a
[1:57:22] success if I would um you know uh
[1:57:26] restate the sterile subdivision or
[1:57:30] if it didn't really get developed at
[1:57:33] all.
[1:57:35] >> Thank you, Councelor Walker.
[1:57:38] Um, thank you. I think a lot of folks
[1:57:41] have said what I would say and I think
[1:57:43] counselor Lords was wonderful. Um, I
[1:57:46] think overall it would be community
[1:57:49] satisfaction. So like this idea of
[1:57:52] continuing to get input from the
[1:57:54] community. Um, I would like it to be a
[1:57:57] place where the commu the folks who live
[1:57:59] there feel like the community is
[1:58:00] thriving. They're utilizing the land in
[1:58:02] the facility. Folks feel happy. they
[1:58:05] have access to basic needs, food,
[1:58:07] recreation. Hopefully, um the PBTA
[1:58:10] system um will have more uh bus takers
[1:58:15] and bikers
[1:58:17] um and just a place where we can foster
[1:58:19] diversity and more community connection.
[1:58:21] Um increased housing opportunities,
[1:58:24] increased revenue for the town. Um, I
[1:58:27] think some failures, some things that
[1:58:29] would make me think it was a failure
[1:58:30] would be if the apartments or housing
[1:58:32] opportunities um, drive up other rental
[1:58:35] costs in town and then all rental
[1:58:37] housing is just really high. Um, loss of
[1:58:39] natural resources um, and then if it
[1:58:42] were bought by a religious or
[1:58:45] educational institution and we lost
[1:58:47] access for local residents or the owners
[1:58:51] don't maintain the space.
[1:58:54] Thank you, councelor Brevik.
[1:58:57] >> Yeah, I think to the second part of this
[1:58:59] is, you know, how would we know we made
[1:59:01] the wrong decision? I think I'll just
[1:59:02] echo what everybody I'll quickly echo
[1:59:04] what everybody else has said. I really
[1:59:05] don't want to see it become a dead
[1:59:07] space, a vacant space. Um, you know,
[1:59:10] don't want some kind of cult walking
[1:59:11] around like I think a data center, all
[1:59:14] those things. But I think really I just
[1:59:16] I want it to not be something that
[1:59:19] people drive through to get to the next
[1:59:20] place, but that it's something that
[1:59:22] draws people into town. Um, and I think
[1:59:24] that's how we'll know is that people are
[1:59:26] coming here for whatever is there and then frequenting our other
[1:59:31] businesses in town and other parts of
[1:59:32] town and and kind of that it's a
[1:59:34] something that is driving that e
[1:59:36] economic prosperity throughout Ammerst.
[1:59:39] Um, and then you know, how will we know
[1:59:41] it's a success? I think we'll have fully
[1:59:42] funded schools and our roads will all be
[1:59:45] paved and we'll have a youth empowerment
[1:59:46] center and we'll have all of these
[1:59:48] things that we know the majority of our
[1:59:50] residents want and we are struggling
[1:59:52] tremendously to get to achieve those
[1:59:54] things I think but really you know it at
[1:59:58] the same time that it leads to Ammeris
[2:00:01] being a a more diverse population
[2:00:04] uh and a place that is known as
[2:00:06] affordable, beautiful and supportive and
[2:00:08] just a good place to live and work and
[2:00:10] that becomes our legacy. See, thank you,
[2:00:13] Council Churchill.
[2:00:18] » I I was um really happy to see Village
[2:00:21] Hill listed as one of the examples
[2:00:23] because I think that's actually a an
[2:00:26] example nearby that has actually been
[2:00:29] able to create a variety of housing
[2:00:31] types, a variety of housing levels. It's
[2:00:34] uh seems to be thriving. Um,
[2:00:38] and so that that was uh I guess that's
[2:00:43] kind of an example I had in my mind of
[2:00:45] what success would look like. Um,
[2:00:49] you know, I think basically what people
[2:00:52] have said, it's I'd want it to be a
[2:00:54] vibrant space. I'd want it to serve a
[2:00:56] variety of residents. I'd like it to
[2:00:58] generate a fair amount of tax revenue
[2:01:00] and um just that we take advantage of
[2:01:04] this unique opportunity to have
[2:01:08] uh actual developable space and that we
[2:01:10] do it well. Um what I I think pretty
[2:01:14] much we've heard I I would sign on to um
[2:01:17] Councelor Lord's comments as well. I
[2:01:19] think she summed up the sort of vibrancy
[2:01:21] and the diversity and the sense of
[2:01:23] community both within it and connected
[2:01:26] to the broader community.
[2:01:27] >> Thank you. Uh councelor Tob, did you
[2:01:30] have an issue with something
[2:01:33] >> your hand just went up?
[2:01:34] >> Yeah. No, that's mistake. [laughter]
[2:01:36] >> Okay. I just wanted to check
[2:01:39] in terms of if you were having a problem
[2:01:40] hearing or anything. Okay. Councelor
[2:01:42] Rooney.
[2:01:44] Um success in my mind would be a very
[2:01:47] strong vibrant neighborhood or
[2:01:50] neighborhoods depending how it's laid
[2:01:52] out. Um with uh organized around shared
[2:01:56] outdoor spaces and corridors uh with
[2:01:59] cultural and workspaces provided that
[2:02:02] really uh knit the community together.
[2:02:06] Um failure is a place with dilapidated
[2:02:10] buildings and and unutilized
[2:02:14] and untaxable land. Thank you.
[2:02:18] >> Thank you. Um I'm next on the list
[2:02:22] about basically what everyone else has
[2:02:23] said about success, a vibrant village
[2:02:25] center supporting all ages and incomes
[2:02:28] of residents. I want to see walkable
[2:02:30] business and commercial needs and
[2:02:32] amenities in in that area and public
[2:02:35] recreational opportunities. If it's got
[2:02:37] all of that, I'll see it as a success.
[2:02:40] Um, a failure, if you want to call it
[2:02:43] that or the wrong decision, um,
[2:02:45] undeveloped at all. Um, we went through
[2:02:48] the process. We had a vision and nothing
[2:02:50] happened for whatever reason. Nothing
[2:02:53] happened. um or um sort of what other
[2:02:57] people have said, the sterile non-com
[2:02:59] community, sort of nonvibrant community,
[2:03:01] lots of housing but nothing else and not
[2:03:04] walkable and not not responding to the
[2:03:06] environment and things like that. Uh
[2:03:08] councelor Greimer,
[2:03:11] >> I'm not going to repeat any of them.
[2:03:13] What I'm hoping is 20 years from now
[2:03:15] some consultant is sitting somewhere and
[2:03:17] using us as the best example.
[2:03:20] Thanks, Councelor Keno Martin.
[2:03:24] Yeah, I mean I think some of the, you
[2:03:26] know, more quantitative indicators of
[2:03:28] success would be, you know, we would
[2:03:30] actually see that we're not struggling
[2:03:31] as much as a town in terms of our um our
[2:03:34] tax revenue and that we're able to
[2:03:36] provide, you know, the the services that
[2:03:38] we want to provide to our community and the infrastructure that we want to
[2:03:41] provide. Um and then of course we would
[2:03:43] see, you know, in these housing studies,
[2:03:45] we wouldn't see, you know, so much
[2:03:46] discrepancy of like people who are, you
[2:03:48] know, um costburdened or extremely cost
[2:03:50] burdened in their housing costs. And we
[2:03:52] would also see maybe we buck the trend
[2:03:53] and you know our community's population
[2:03:55] is increasing right while others are
[2:03:57] maybe going down. Um you know because
[2:03:59] it's a very livable town and people want
[2:04:01] to come here. Um and then some of the
[2:04:03] things that I think are you know um more
[2:04:05] quantitative or qualitative I would say
[2:04:07] you know is definitely some of the
[2:04:08] things that counselor Lord was raising
[2:04:09] up right like it's the diversity it's
[2:04:11] the vibrant community. it's, you know,
[2:04:13] increasing, you know, that that sort of
[2:04:16] um presence in our town and and that
[2:04:19] sort of um you know, vibrancy. And also,
[2:04:22] um one thing that I think is is really
[2:04:24] important and I I would love to see us
[2:04:25] get this right is that we have new
[2:04:27] development, but it's also like
[2:04:30] environmentally friendly development.
[2:04:32] Like we're not like destroying buildings
[2:04:34] that could still be used to make
[2:04:35] something new. And you know, we're not
[2:04:37] like taking over land that's farmland or
[2:04:40] conservation land to create what we want
[2:04:42] to create. we we're not destroying those
[2:04:44] things in order to create and I think
[2:04:46] that you know and that we're building
[2:04:47] things that are up to the absolute best
[2:04:48] standards of like green energy and and
[2:04:50] you know being net zero or as close to
[2:04:52] net zero as possible um because I think
[2:04:54] Ammerst as a town like we have that
[2:04:57] ability in us like we have we value
[2:04:59] those things we've shown that we value
[2:05:00] those things and this is our chance to
[2:05:02] like put that into practice and put it
[2:05:03] in action you know can we do it with
[2:05:05] this big piece of land given the
[2:05:06] opportunity and balance all of those
[2:05:09] things um so yeah I mean I I think that
[2:05:13] would be a success and I think the you
[2:05:15] know not success would either be the
[2:05:17] property is vacant and nothing is done
[2:05:19] with it and another to me not success
[2:05:23] would be we get a lot of really
[2:05:24] expensive housing and the community
[2:05:26] becomes even less affordable and that's
[2:05:28] really scary to me and I think it's
[2:05:29] always a risk. So
[2:05:31] >> thank you councelor Devon Gier.
[2:05:34] >> All right I'm going to start with the
[2:05:36] Gary situation first. Um, echoing a lot
[2:05:38] of what folks said, uh, large huge box
[2:05:43] boxy buildings that only hold one thing
[2:05:45] or the other, right? So, they're only
[2:05:47] apartments and that's all that's on the
[2:05:48] space or only some big box situation and
[2:05:52] that's all that's there. Um, kind of
[2:05:53] that cookie cutter idea. Uh, I the loss
[2:05:57] of natural space and pushing or constant
[2:06:00] pushing on our bylaws that exist to
[2:06:02] protect natural space is a concern to
[2:06:04] me. I I think that it's important to me
[2:06:07] that you all understand we are not all
[2:06:10] aligned fully on how much natural space
[2:06:13] should stay or go. Um I think you've
[2:06:15] heard some some folks speaking strongly
[2:06:17] in support of get rid of whatever you
[2:06:20] need to get rid and maybe I'm being
[2:06:22] hyperbolic but uh you know don't concern
[2:06:24] yourself with that preservation so much
[2:06:26] as concern yourself with housing. And I
[2:06:28] hope that you are also hearing some of
[2:06:30] us saying we would like you to continue
[2:06:32] to concern yourself with the the
[2:06:34] preservation of that natural space. So
[2:06:36] my ideal situation because that's more
[2:06:38] fun to think about is um a essentially a
[2:06:41] micro village center on an environment
[2:06:44] which recognizes the value of that
[2:06:46] natural space to the success of the
[2:06:47] community that's on it. Um, I want to
[2:06:51] see a this is a huge test of our
[2:06:54] relatively still new often stretch
[2:06:57] energy code, right? This is the
[2:06:59] potential for a lot of new buildings
[2:07:00] that would be more sustainable than
[2:07:03] construction we've seen in in the past,
[2:07:06] which is really exciting to me. Um, and
[2:07:08] on that note, you know, I want to see
[2:07:10] school buses going down into that area
[2:07:12] every day. I want to see PVTA needing to
[2:07:15] expand their roots into there, not just keep up the existing one. Um,
[2:07:20] I'd love to see the the Red Barn still
[2:07:23] hosting some sort of event or being
[2:07:24] utilized. Same with the Kern Center. Um,
[2:07:27] those are buildings that are incredible
[2:07:28] and I'd love to see become something
[2:07:30] that fosters that that community in some
[2:07:33] way. Um,
[2:07:35] same with the farm. I would the the
[2:07:38] weird niche thing that I would really
[2:07:40] love to see is I want to see CPA
[2:07:42] applications coming from this area of
[2:07:44] town. I want to see people applying for
[2:07:46] funding to build new playgrounds and to
[2:07:48] uh upkeep that natural space. I think
[2:07:50] for me that'll be a mark of success is
[2:07:52] when they need to when they're they're
[2:07:54] at a place where they're like, you know
[2:07:56] what, this is great. Let's continue it
[2:07:57] with that continued funding through CPA.
[2:07:59] That was just the random example that
[2:08:01] Chris, but uh it's true for me.
[2:08:04] >> Thank you. That was our 13th counselor
[2:08:06] on that prompt. I'm going to pass this
[2:08:09] on to the Nate and Peter and Jeff for
[2:08:13] anything you'd like to say now or
[2:08:16] conclude before we move on to public
[2:08:18] comment.
[2:08:24] » I have nothing to add at this point.
[2:08:27] >> No, it's a lot. I mean, I I just really
[2:08:29] appreciate some of the like some of the
[2:08:32] language you use was very precise and
[2:08:34] very thoughtful like the the connection
[2:08:36] between the health of the land and the
[2:08:39] village that exists within it. The
[2:08:43] legacy of culture and learning combined
[2:08:46] with the um the issues around the the need for housing, the want the want
[2:08:52] for housing. Um so um just great stuff.
[2:08:55] Thank you for that.
[2:08:58] You're good. With that, we're going to
[2:09:01] thank you for showing up tonight. Um,
[2:09:03] we're going to have a public comment
[2:09:05] period. Um, and then I will finish with
[2:09:08] concluding marks after the public
[2:09:09] comment period. So, the the the inerson
[2:09:13] ones will come up here. So, if you guys
[2:09:14] could move back to the seats just behind
[2:09:16] us um behind you, that would be great
[2:09:18] because anyone that's here will comment
[2:09:21] from there. Um, okay. We are moving on
[2:09:25] to public comment.
[2:09:28] Anyone wishing to make public comment
[2:09:30] who is attending remotely, please raise
[2:09:32] your hand in the Zoom application. If
[2:09:35] you are present in the town room and
[2:09:36] have not signed up with the clerk,
[2:09:37] please do so now. Uh comments and
[2:09:40] questions on this particular topic can
[2:09:42] also be submitted at hampshireampus
[2:09:44] zoningstudy.com.
[2:09:47] Uh residents are welcome to make public
[2:09:48] comments on matters within our
[2:09:50] jurisdiction. The council will not
[2:09:51] engage in a dialogue or comment on a
[2:09:53] matter raised during general public
[2:09:55] comment. Public comments are not
[2:09:56] reflective of the opinions of the
[2:09:58] council. The first amendment broadly
[2:10:00] protects individuals rights to address
[2:10:02] the government, to speak, and to express
[2:10:04] themselves, including their right to
[2:10:05] stay to say hateful and offensive
[2:10:08] things. I am generally unable to shut
[2:10:10] those commenters down under the first
[2:10:12] amendment to the US Constitution, unless
[2:10:14] their level of speech falls within an
[2:10:16] exception articulated by the courts,
[2:10:18] such as fighting words. true threats to
[2:10:21] a particular individual, harassment of a
[2:10:23] particular individual, or incitement of
[2:10:25] imminent lawless activity. If a question
[2:10:28] exists as to whether a particular
[2:10:30] speaker is engaging in unprotected
[2:10:32] speech, I must defer to the principle of
[2:10:34] freedom of speech.
[2:10:38] There are no hands raised on Zoom. Um,
[2:10:42] and how many people in the town room?
[2:10:43] >> Just one.
[2:10:44] Um, so everyone I will give
[2:10:47] you three minutes since we expected a
[2:10:49] little more public comment and that's
[2:10:50] why I had announced two, but I will move
[2:10:52] it up to three. Um, Athena,
[2:10:55] >> Vince O' Conor.
[2:10:56] >> Vince, please come on up, state your
[2:10:57] name and where you live and make your
[2:10:58] comment.
[2:11:19] Okay, I got this one.
[2:11:20] >> No, now it's gone.
[2:11:22] >> Um,
[2:11:23] yeah.
[2:11:25] So, thank you for the three minute.
[2:11:39] Vince, you just need to hold that button
[2:11:40] down so that the microphone stays on.
[2:11:44] >> Yeah. Okay. I attended both open houses,
[2:11:48] evenings for the Amethyst Brook uh
[2:11:50] school openings
[2:11:52] um and providing transportation for two
[2:11:55] separate families on each one on each
[2:11:58] night. On local radio, I heard only one
[2:12:02] person speak about the school, the
[2:12:05] person who had led the opposition to the
[2:12:08] Fort River site.
[2:12:11] Today for the fourth day of school,
[2:12:14] public school in Amoris, I drove an
[2:12:17] elementary school student to another
[2:12:19] public school and was confronted
[2:12:22] by the possibility that what is
[2:12:24] apparently happening in Stanford,
[2:12:26] Connecticut,
[2:12:28] um where parents drop their children off
[2:12:30] and then they are being seized by ICE
[2:12:34] and Border Patrol operatives.
[2:12:38] um that
[2:12:41] those of us who who do drop children off
[2:12:44] will be confronted with the possibility
[2:12:47] that we will be witnessing
[2:12:50] these individuals
[2:12:53] uh perhaps sees not only parents but
[2:12:56] children.
[2:12:58] uh and I do happen to know fam blended
[2:13:01] families who attend that school
[2:13:05] and I know that there are children who
[2:13:07] are US citizens
[2:13:10] who could be grabbed. And my concern
[2:13:13] about all of these guidelines for
[2:13:16] schools from the state and from the town
[2:13:20] manager
[2:13:22] ignore the fact
[2:13:24] that and in fact state nothing about
[2:13:27] what
[2:13:29] the police authorities are going to do
[2:13:32] because the kidnapping laws of
[2:13:34] Massachusetts
[2:13:36] say the first four words are whosoever
[2:13:40] without lawful authority.
[2:13:43] And neither border patrol nor ICE have
[2:13:47] any authority over US citizens.
[2:13:50] And what we cannot
[2:13:53] seem to get out of the manager or the
[2:13:56] state authorities is what they are going
[2:13:59] to do on the spot to intercede
[2:14:04] with for ch on behalf of children or
[2:14:07] parents who can prove their citizenship
[2:14:12] and are being taken away. I mean, yeah,
[2:14:15] maybe in two months they can get out.
[2:14:17] They can spend their entire savings, the
[2:14:19] money they'd saved up to uh put a down
[2:14:22] payment on a house. They can pay to a
[2:14:24] lawyer who can fly to Texas to some
[2:14:26] godforsaken place in a in a federal
[2:14:29] district that has one judge.
[2:14:33] >> Please wrap up.
[2:14:34] >> And what? So, we have no guidance. We
[2:14:37] have no assurance from the manager's
[2:14:40] guidance and the board has sat here and
[2:14:43] done nothing about it and you cannot do
[2:14:45] that. We
[2:14:47] >> what happened in Stanford, Connecticut
[2:14:49] could happen here and we need
[2:14:52] >> the citizens of this town to feel that
[2:14:54] they are going to be protected by the
[2:14:56] people whose salaries they pay in the
[2:14:59] police department.
[2:15:00] >> Thank you so much for your comments. We
[2:15:02] have one raised hand now on Zoom. Bruce
[2:15:04] Steedman, please uh unmute yourself,
[2:15:06] state your name and where you live, and
[2:15:08] make your comment.
[2:15:10] >> Um, this is Castle O'Neal. I'm Bruce and
[2:15:13] Bruce Steedman's wife. I live at 20
[2:15:15] Mount Holio Drive in Ammerst. Um,
[2:15:19] [clears throat]
[2:15:20] when you were talking about reaching out
[2:15:22] to the workforce to find out what kind
[2:15:24] of housing they might be looking for,
[2:15:27] I'd suggest talking to the staffs of the
[2:15:30] public schools because I hear that one
[2:15:33] of the concerns about [clears throat]
[2:15:35] having so many snow days is it's not
[2:15:38] that the kids can't get to school, it's
[2:15:40] the teachers who can't afford to live in
[2:15:42] Ammerst and have to drive in from the
[2:15:44] hilltowns can't get to the school. So,
[2:15:47] my sense is there's a lot of admin, uh,
[2:15:50] teachers, other school staff who would
[2:15:53] love to live in Ammerst and can't afford
[2:15:55] to live here and could probably have a
[2:15:57] lot to say about what kind
[2:15:59] [clears throat] of housing they'd want.
[2:16:03] >> Thank you for your comment.
[2:16:06] >> We have no other hands raised, so we are
[2:16:09] going to close public comment. Um, there
[2:16:11] are not topics anticipated,
[2:16:14] unanticipated topics. I want to thank
[2:16:17] all of our consultants. We've had one on
[2:16:18] Zoom all evening. We have three here. Um
[2:16:21] particularly though Nate and Peter who
[2:16:23] sat up here the whole time and answered
[2:16:25] some questions and presented them and
[2:16:26] made the presentation and all. Um this
[2:16:28] is a huge amount of work for not just
[2:16:31] you all but for Jeff too. Um and the
[2:16:34] town is organizing this and all and in a
[2:16:36] short timeline. Um we look forward to
[2:16:40] the continued public process and seeing
[2:16:42] the results of that public process. um
[2:16:45] as we move forward to seeing your goal
[2:16:49] of zoning in January. That is quite
[2:16:52] ambitious. Um so thank you all for that
[2:16:56] tonight. Um I will make the motion to
[2:16:58] adjurnn. Is there a second?
[2:17:00] >> Shane seconds.
[2:17:01] >> Thank you. Um we will move on to voting.
[2:17:04] Councelor Brevik,
[2:17:05] >> yes.
[2:17:06] >> Councelor Kenno Martin,
[2:17:07] >> yes.
[2:17:08] >> Andy Churchill,
[2:17:09] >> yes.
[2:17:10] >> Anna Devongier,
[2:17:11] >> hi.
[2:17:11] >> Lynn Greamer,
[2:17:12] >> hi.
[2:17:13] >> Mandy Johani is an I. Councelor Lord.
[2:17:15] >> Hi.
[2:17:16] >> Dam Mloud.
[2:17:17] >> Hi.
[2:17:17] >> Pam Rooney.
[2:17:18] >> Yes.
[2:17:19] >> Councelor Ryan.
[2:17:20] >> Hi.
[2:17:21] >> Kathy Shane.
[2:17:22] >> Yes.
[2:17:22] >> Jennifer Tob. Yes. And Councelor Walker.
[2:17:25] >> Yes.
[2:17:26] >> We are adjourned at 8:47 p.m. Thank you
[2:17:29] so much.